the doctrine of the trinity and transubstantiation compared as to scripture, reason, and tradition. the first part in a new dialogue between a protestant and a papist : wherein an answer is given to the late proofs of the antiquity of transubstantiation in the books called consensus veterum and nubes testium, &c. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the doctrine of the trinity and transubstantiation compared as to scripture, reason, and tradition. the first part in a new dialogue between a protestant and a papist : wherein an answer is given to the late proofs of the antiquity of transubstantiation in the books called consensus veterum and nubes testium, &c. stillingfleet, edward, - . the second edition. , [ ] p. printed for w. rogers ..., london : . written by edward stillingfleet. cf. wing. advertisement on p. 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-- consensus veterum. transubstantiation -- early works to . trinity -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the doctrine of the trinity and transubstantiation compared , as to scripture , reason , and tradition . in a new dialogue between a protestant and a papist . the first part . wherein an answer is given to the late proofs of the antiquity of transubstantiation , in the books called consensus veterum , and nubes testium , &c. the second edition . imprimatur . ex aedib . lambeth . jan. . . guil. needham rr. in christo pat. ac d. d. wilhelmo archiep. cant. à sacris . london , printed for w. rogers at the sun over against st. dunstan's church in fleet-street . m dc lxxx viii . the doctrine of the trinity and transubstantiation compared , as to scripture , reason , and tradition . in a new dialogue between a protestant and a papist . pr. i remember your last words at parting were , farewel ; and god give his holy spirit to instruct you . which have run much in my mind : for if the holy spirit instruct us , what need is there of an infallible church ? i hope those were not only words of course with you . pa. no ; but i meant that the holy spirit should instruct you about the authority of the church . pr. was this indeed your meaning ? then you would have me believe the church infallible , because the holy spirit which is infallible will instruct me about it , if i seek his directions . p. yes . pr. but then i have no reason to believe it ; for the holy spirit after my seeking his instructions , teaches me otherwise . and if the holy spirit is infallible which way soever it teaches , then i am infallibly sure there is no such thing as infallibility in what you call the catholick church . p. come , come ; you make too much of a sudden expression at parting ; i pray let us return to our main business , which is to shew , that there is the same ground from scripture , reason , and tradition , to believe transubstantiation , as there is to believe the trinity . and this i affirm again , after reading the answers to the former dialogue ; and i now come somewhat better prepared to make it out . pr. so you had need . and i hope i shall be able not only to defend the contrary , but to make it evident to you , that there is a mighty difference in these two doctrines , as to scripture , reason , and tradition . but i pray keep close to the point : for i hate impertinent trifling in a debate of such consequence . p. i must confess , i over-shot my self a little in the former dialogue , when i offer'd to prove the doctrine of the trinity unreasonable and absurd : for no church can make such a doctrine , which is unreasonable and absurd in it self , not to be so to me ; no church can make three and one to be the same , if they be repugnant in themselves . but my meaning was , that mens disputes about these things will never be ended , till they submit to the authority of the church . pr. and then they may believe three , or three hundred persons in the trinity , as the church pleases . is that your meaning ? p. no. but i said to my carnal reason it would appear so ; but not to my reason as under the conduct of an infallible guide . pr. then an infallible guide can make three hundred to be but three ; which is a notable trick of infallibility . p. no ; i tell you i meant only that we are not to follow carnal reason , but the church's authority , i. e. we are not to search into mysteries above reason , but only believe what the church delivers . and i intend now to argue the point somewhat closely with you . do you believe that there are any mysteries in the christian doctrine above reason , or not ? if not , you must reject the trinity ; if you do , then you have no ground for rejecting transubstantiation , because it is above reason . pr. you clearly mistake us ; and i perceive were very little acquainted with our doctrine : for we do not reject any doctrine concerning god , meerly because it is above our reason , when it is otherwise clearly proved from scripture . for then we own our selves bound to submit in matters of divine revelation concerning an infinite being , though they be above our capacity to comprehend them . but in matters of a finite nature , which are far more easie for us to conceive , and which depend upon the evidence of sense , we may justly reject any doctrine which overthrows that evidence , and is not barely above our reason , but repugnant to it . p. i do not well understand you . pr. so i believe ; but i will endeavour to help your understanding a little . and i pray consider these things : . that there is a great difference in our conceptions of finite and infinite beings . for , whatsoever is infinite , is thereby owned to be above our comprehension , otherwise it would not be infinite . the attributes of god which are essential to him , as his wisdom , goodness and power , must be understood by us , so far as to form a true notion of that being which is infinite ; but then the infinity of these attributes is above our reach . and so his infinite duration , which we call eternity ; his infinite presence which we call his immensity ; the infinite extent of his knowledg , as to future contingencies ; all these must be confessed to be mysteries , not above our reason , but above our capacity . for we have great reason to own them , but we have not faculties to comprehend them . we cannot believe a god , unless we hold him to be infinite in all perfections : and if he be infinite , he must be incomprehensible ; so that religion must be overthrown , if something incomprehensible be not allowed . and as to finite beings , so far as they run into what we call infinite , they are so far out of our reach ; as appears by the insuperable difficulties about the infinite divisibility of quantity . . that we have certain notions of some things in the visible world ; both that they are , and that they have some attributes essential to them . we daily converse with things visible and corporeal ; and if we do not conceive something true and certain in our minds about them , we live in a dream and have only phantasms and illusions about us . if we are certain that there are real bodies , and not meer appearances , there must be some certain way of conveying such impressions to our minds , from whence they may conclude , this is a horse , and this a man , and this is flesh , and this blood , and this is wood , and this stone ; otherwise all certainty is gone , and we must turn meer scepticks . . that in examining the sense of scripture we may make use of those certain notions of visible things which god and nature have planted in us ; otherwise we are not dealt with as reasonable creatures . and therefore we must use those faculties god hath given us , in reading and comparing scriptures , and examining the sense that is offered by such notions which are agreeable to the nature of things . as for instance , the scripture frequently attributes eyes and ears and hands to the almighty : must we presently believe god to have an human shape because of this ? no ; we compare these with the necessary attributes of god , and from thence see a necessity of interpreting these expressions in a sense agreeable to the divine nature . so if other expressions of scripture seem to affirm that of a body which is inconsistent with the nature of it ; as , that it is not visible , or may be in many places at once , there is some reason for me to understand them in a sense agreeable to the essential properties of a body . . there is a difference between our not apprehending the manner how a thing is , and the apprehending the impossibility of the thing it self . and this is the meaning of the distinction of things above our reason , and contrary to our reason . if the question be , how the same individual nature can be communicated to three distinct persons ? we may justly answer , we cannot apprehend the manner of it , no more than we can the divine immensity , or an infinite amplitude without extension . but if any go about to prove there is an impossibility in the thing , he must prove that the divine nature can communicate it self no otherwise than a finite individual nature can : for all acknowledg the same common nature may be communicated to three persons , and so the whole controversie rests on this single point as to reason ; whether the divine nature and persons are to be judged and measured as human nature and persons are . and in this , i think we have the advantage in point of reason of the anti-trinitarians themselves , although they pretend never so much to it . p. good night , sir ; i perceive you are in for an hour ; and i have not so much time to spare , to hear such long preachments . for my part , talk of sense and reason as long as you will , i am for the catholick church . pr. and truly , she is mightily obliged to you for oppoposing her authority to sense and reason . p. call it what you will , i am for the churches authority ; and the talk of sense and reason is but canting without that . pr. the matter is then come to a fine pass ; i thought canting had rather been that which was spoken against sense or reason . but i pray , sir , what say you to what i have been discoursing ? p. to tell you truth , i did not mind it ; for as soon as i heard whither you were going , i clapt fast hold of the church , as a man would do of a mast in a storm , and resolved not to let go my hold . pr. what! altho you should sink together with it . p. if i do , the church must answer for it ; for i must sink or swim with it . pr. what comfort will that be to you , when you are called to an account for your self ? but if you stick here , it is to no purpose to talk any more with you . p. i think so too . but now we are in , methinks we should not give over thus ; especially since i began this dialogue about the trinity and transubstantiation . pr. if you do , we know the reason of it . but i am resolved to push this matter now as far as it will go ; and either to convince you of your mistake , or at least to make you give it over wholly . p. but if i must go on in my parallel , i will proceed in my own way . i mentioned three things , scripture , reason , and tradition . and i will begin with tradition . pr. this is somewhat an uncouth method ; but i must be content to follow your conduct . p. no , sir , the method is very natural ; for in mysteries above reason , the safest way is to trust tradition . and none can give so good account of that as the church . pr. take your own way : but i perceive tradition with you is the sense of the present church ; which is as hard to conceive , as that a nunc stans should be an eternal succession . p. as to comparing tradition , i say , that the mystery of the trinity was questioned in the very infancy of the church , and the arians prevail'd much against it in the beginning of the fourth age ; but transubstantiation lay unquestion'd and quiet for a long time ; and when it came into debate , there was no such opposition as that of arius , to call in question the authority of its tradition ; the church received it unanimously , and in that sense continued till rash reason attempted to fathom the unlimited miracles and mysteries of god. pr. i stand amazed at the boldness of this assertion : but i find your present writers are very little vers'd in antiquity ; which makes them offer things concerning the ancient church , especially as to transubstantiation , which those who had been modest and learned , would have been ashamed of . p. i hope i may make use of them to justify my self , tho you slight them , i mean the consensus veterum , the nubes testium , and the single sheet about transubstantiation . pr. take them all , and as many more as you please , i am sure you can never prove transubstantiation to have been , and the trinity not to have been the constant belief of the primitive church . p. let me manage my own argument first . pr. all the reason in the world. p. my argument is , that the doctrine of the trinity met with far more opposition than transubstantiation did . pr. good reason for it , because it was never heard of then . you may as well say , the tradition of the circulation of the blood lay very quiet , from the days of hippocrates to the time of parisanus . who was there that opposed things before they were thought of ? p. that is your great mistake ; for transubstantiation was very well known , but they did not happen to speak so much of it , because it was not opposed . pr. but how is it possible for you to know it was so well known , if they spake not of it ? p. i did not say , they did not speak of it , but not so much , or not half so express ; because it is not customary for men to argue unquestionable truths . pr. but still how shall it be known that the church received this doctrine unanimously , if they do not speak expresly of it ? but since you offer at no proof of your assertion , i will make a fair offer to you , and undertake to prove , that the fathers spake expresly against it . p. how is that ? expresly against it ? god forbid . pr. make of it what you please , and answer what you can : i begin with my proofs . p. nay , then , we are in for all night . i am now full of business , and cannot hearken to tedious proofs out of the fathers , which have been canvassed a hundred times . pr. i will be as short as i can ; and i promise you not to transcribe any that have hitherto written , nor to urge you with any spurious writer , or lame citation at second or third hand ; and i shall produce nothing but what i have read , considered , and weighed in the authors themselves . p. since it must be so ; let me hear your doubty arguments , which i cannot as well turn against the trinity ; for that is my point . pr. i leave you to try your skill upon them . the first shall be from the proofs of the truth of christ's incarnation ; and i hope this will not hold against the trinity . and those arguments which they brought to prove christ incarnate , do overthrow transubstantiation effectually . so that either we must make the fathers to reason very ill against hereticks ; or , if their arguments be good , it was impossible they should believe transubstantiation . for can you suppose that any can believe it , who should not barely assert , but make the force of an argument to lie in this , that the substance of the bread doth not remain after consecration ? and this i now prove , not from any slight inconsiderable authors , but from some of the greatest men in the church in their time . i begin with st. chrysostom , whose epistle to coesarius is at last brought to light by a learned person of the roman communion ; who makes no question of the sincerity of it , and faith , the latin translation which only he could find entire , was about five hundred years old ; but he hath so confirm'd it by the greek fragments of it , quoted by ancient greek authors , that there can be no suspicion left concerning it . p. what means all this ado before you come to the point ? pr. because this epistle hath been formerly so confidently denied to be st. chrysostom's ; and such care was lately taken to suppress it . p. but what will you do with it now you have it ? pr. i will tell you presently . this epistle was written by him for the satisfaction of caesarius a monk , who was in danger of being seduced by the apollinarists . p. what have we to do with the apollinarists ? do you think all hard words are akin , and so the affinity rises between apollinarists and transubstantiation ? pr. you shall find it comes nearer the matter than you imagined . for those hereticks denied the truth of the human nature of christ after the union , and said that the properties of it did then belong to the divine nature ; as appears by that very epistle . p. and what of all this ? do we deny the truth of christ's human nature ? pr. no ; but i pray observe the force of his parallel . he is proving that each nature in christ contains its properties ; for , saith he , as before consecration we call it bread , but after it by divine grace sanctifying it through the prayer of the priest , it is no longer called bread , but the body of our lord , altho the nature of bread remains in it ; and it doth not become two bodies , but one body of christ ; so here the divine nature being joyned to the human , they both make one son , and one person . p. and what do you infer from hence ? pr. nothing more , but that the nature of bread doth as certainly remain after consecration , as the nature of christ doth after the union . p. hold a little . for the author of the single sheet , saith , that the fathers by nature and substance do often mean no more than the natural qualities , or visible appearances of things . and why may not st. chrysostom mean so here ? pr. i say , it is impossible he should . for all the dispute was about the substance , and not about the qualities , as appears by that very epistle ; for those hereticks granted , that christ had all the properties of a body left still ; they do not deny that christ could suffer , but they said , the properties of a body after the union belonged to the divine nature , the human nature being swallowed up by the union . and therefore st. chrysostom , by nature , must understand substance , and not qualities ; or else he doth by no means prove that which he aimed at . so that st. chrysostom doth manifestly assert the substance of the bread to remain after consecration . p. but doth not st. chrysostom suppose then , that upon consecration , the bread is united to the divinity , as the human nature is to the divine ; else what parallel could he make ? pr. i will deal freely with you by declaring , that not st. chrysostom only , but many others of the fathers , did own the bread after consecration to be made the real body of christ ; but not in your sense , by changing the substance of the elements into that body of christ which is in heaven ; but by a mystical union , caused by the holy spirit , whereby the bread becomes the body of christ , as that was which was conceived in the womb of the blessed virgin. but this is quite another thing from transubstantiation ; and the church of england owns , that after consecration , the bread and wine are the body and blood of christ. p. but altho this be not transubstantiation , it may be something as hard to believe or understand . pr. by no means . for all the difficulties relating to the taking away the substance of the bread , and the properties of christ's body , are removed by this hypothesis . p. let us then keep to our point : but methinks this is but a slender appearance yet ; st. chrysostom stands alone for all that i see . pr. have but a little patience , and you shall see more of his mind presently . but i must first tell you , that the eutychians afterwards were condemned in the council of chalcedon for following this doctrine of apollinaris ; and that council defines , that the differences of the two natures in christ were not destroyed by the union ; but that their properties were preserved distinct and concur to one person . and against these , the other fathers disputed just as st. chrysostom had done before against the apollinarists . theodoret brings the same instance , and he affirms expresly , that the nature of the elements is not changed , that they do not lose their proper nature , but remain in their former substance , figure and form , and may be seen and touched as before . still this is not to prove any accidental qualities , but the very substance of christ's body to remain . p. but was not theodoret a man of suspected faith in ●he church ? and therefore no great matter can be made of his testimony . pr. yield it then to us ; and see if we do not clear theodoret ; but your own learned men never question him , as to this matter ( at least ) and the ancient church hath vindicated his reputation . and he saith no more than st. chrysostom before him , and others of great esteem ●fter him . p. who were they ? pr. what say you to a pope , whom you account head of the church ? pope gelasius writing against the same hereticks , produces the same example ; and he expresly saith , the substance of the bread and wine doth not cease . p. i thought i should find you tripping . here you put a fob-head of the church upon us . for the author of the single sheet saith , this was another gelasius , as is prov'd at large by bellarmin . pr. in truth , i am ashamed of the ignorance of such small authors , who will be medling with things they understand not . for this writer , since bellarmin's time , hath been evidently proved from testimonies of antiquity , such as fulgentius and john the second , to have been pope gelasius , and that by some of the most learned persons of the roman communion , such as cardinal du perron , petavius , sirmondus , and others . p. have you any more that talk at this rate ? pr. yes . what think you of a patriarch of antioch , who useth the same similitude for the same purpose ; and he affirms , that the sensible substance still continues in the eucharist , tho it hath divine grace joyned with it ? and i pray , now tell me seriously , did the tradition of transubstantiation lie unquestion'd and quiet all this while ? when we have three patriarchs , of constantinople , rome , and antioch , expresly against it ; and one of them owned by your selves , to be head of the church ; and held by many to be infallible , especially when he teaches the church ; which he doth , if ever , when he declares against hereticks . p. i know not what to say , unless by nature and substance they meant qualities and properties . pr. i have evidently proved that could not be their meaning . p. but i am told monsieur arnaud in his elaborate defence against claude goes that way , and he saith , the eutychians and apollinarists did not absolutely deny any substance to remain in christ's body , but not so as to be endued with such properties as ours have . pr. i grant this is the main of his defence ; but i confess , monsieur arnaud hath not so much authority with me , as a general council which declared the contrary ; viz. that the eutychians were condemned for not holding two substances or natures in christ after the union . and domnus antiochenus , who first laid open the eutychian heresie , saith , it lay in making a mixture and confusion of both natures in christ , and so making the divinity passible ; and to the same purpose others . there were some who charged both apollinaris and eutyches with holding , that christ brought his body from heaven , and that it was not con-substantial with ours ; but apollinaris himself , in the fragments preserved by leontius , not only denies it , but pronounces an anathema against those that hold it . and vitalis of antioch , a great disciple of his , in discourse with epiphanius , utterly denied a coelestial body in christ. vincentius lerinensis saith , his heresie lay in denying two distinct substances in christ. st. augustin saith , he held but one substance after the union ; so that he must deny any substance of a body to remain after the union , which he asserted to be wholly swallowed up , and the properties to continue : which was another kind of transubstantiation ; for no more of the substance of christ's body was supposed to remain after the union , than there is supposed to be in the elements after consecration . but in both cases the properties and qualities were the same still . and it is observable , that in the acts of the council of chalcedon , eutyches rejected it , as a calumny cast upon him , that he should hold that christ brought a body from heaven . but the eutychian doctrine lay in taking away the substance of the body , and making the divinity the sole substance , but with the accidents and properties of the body . and for this they produced the words of saint john , the word was made flesh ; which they urged with the same confidence that you now do , this is my body . and when they were urged with difficulties , they made the very same recourse to god's omnipotency , and the letter of scripture , and made the same declamations against the use of reason that you do ; and withal , they would not have the human nature to be annihilated , but to be changed into the divine ; just as your authors do about the substance of the bread. so that it is hard to imagin a more exact parallel to transubstantiation than there is in this doctrine ; and consequently there can be no more evident proof of it , than the fathers making use of the instance of the eucharist , to shew , tha● as the substance of bread doth remain after consecration ; so the substance of christ's body doth continue after the union . and when the fathers from the remaining properties do prove the substance to remain , they overthrow the possibility of transubstantiation . for , if they might be without the substance , their whole argument loses its force , and proves just nothing . p. but all this proves nothing as to the faith of the church ; being only arguments used by divines in the heat of disputes . pr. do you then in earnest give up the fathers as disputants to us ; but retain them as believers to your selves ? but how should we know their faith but by their works ? p. i perceive you have a mind to be pleasant ; but my meaning was , that in disputes men may easily over-shoot themselves , and use ineffectual arguments . pr. but is it possible to suppose they should draw arguments from something against the faith of the church . as for instance ; suppose now we are disputing about tran substantiation , you should bring an argument from the human nature of christ , and say , that as in the hypostatical union the substance is changed , and nothing but the accidents remain ; so it is in the elements upon consecration . do you think i should not presently deny your example , and say , your very supposition is heretical ? so no doubt would the eutychians have done in case the faith of the church had then been , that the substance of the elements was changed after consecration . and the eutychians were the most sottish disputants in the world , if they had not brought the doctrine of transubstantiation to prove their heresy . p. methink you are very long upon this argument ; when shall we have done at this rate ? pr. i take this for your best answer ; and so i proceed to a second argument , which i am sure will not hold against the trinity ; and that is from the natural and unseparable properties of christ's body ; which are utterly inconsistent with the belief of transubstantiation . and the force of the argument in general lies in this , that the fathers did attribute such things to the body of christ , which render it uncapable of being present in such a manner in the sacrament as transubstantiation supposes . and no men who understand themselves , will assert that at one time , which they must be bound to deny at another ; but they will be sure to make an exception or limitation , which may reconcile both together . as if you should say , that the body of christ cannot be in more places than one at once , upon the doctrine of st. thomas ; ye would presently add , with regard to the sacrament , i. e. not in regard of its natural presence , but in a sacramental it may : so , if the fathers had an opinion like yours as to the body of christ , they would have a reserve , or exception , as to the sacrament . but it appears by their writings , that they attribute such properties in general to the body of christ , as overthrow any such presence , without exceptions or limitations . but that is not all : for i shall now prove , . that they do attribute circumscription to christ's body in heaven , so as to exclude the possibility of its being upon earth . . that they deny any such thing , as the supernatural existence of a body after the manner of a spirit . p. what do you mean ? i am quite tired already ; and now you are turning up the other glass . pr. since you will be dabling in these controversies , you must not think to escape so easily . i have been not a little offended at the insolence of some late pamphlets upon this argument ; and now i come to close reasoning , you would fain be gone . p. i am in a little haste at present ; i pray come quickly to the point . pr. as soon as you please . what think you , if a man now should bring an argument to prove a matter of faith from hence , that christ's body could not be in heaven and earth at once , would this argument hold good ? yet thus vigilius tapsitanus argues against those who denied two natures in christ ; for , saith he , the body of christ when it was on earth , was not in heaven ; and now it is in heaven , it is not upon earth ; and it is so far from being so , that we expect him to come from heaven in his flesh , whom we believe to be now present on earth by his divinity . how can this hold , if the body of christ can be in heaven and earth at the same time ? p. he speaks this of the natural presence of christ's body , and not of the sacramental . pr. the argument is not drawn from the manner of the presence , but from the nature of a body , that it could not be in heaven and earth at the same time . and so st. augustin said , that christ was every where present as god ; but confined to a certain place in heaven according to the measure of his true body . p. this is only to disprove the ubiquity of christ's body ; and not his being in several places at the same time . pr. then you yield it to be repugnant to the nature of a body to be every where present . p. yes . pr. but what if there be as great a repugnancy from st. augustin's argument , for a body to be present in several places at once ? p. i see no such thing . pr. no ? his argument is from the confinement of a true body to a certain place . and if it be in many places at once , it is as far from being confined , as if it took up all places . and there are some greater difficulties as to a body's being distant from it self , than in asserting its ubiquity . p. i perceive you are inclined to be a lutheran . pr. no such matter . for i think the essential properties of a finite and infinite being are incommunicable to each other , and i look on ubiquity as one of them . p. then the same argument will not hold as to presence in several places , for this is no infinite perfection . pr. you run from one argument to another . for these are two distinct ways of arguing ; and the argument from the repugnancy of it to the nature of a body , doth as well hold against ubiquity , as that it is a divine perfection . and st. augustin in that excellent epistle doth argue from the essential properties and dimensions of bodies , and the difference of the presence of a spirit , and a body . i pray read and consider that epistle , and you will think it impossible st. augustin should believe transubstantiation . p. st. augustin was a great disputant , and such are wont while they are eager upon one point , to forget another . but st. augustin elsewhere doth assert the presence of christ's real body in the sacrament . pr. then the plain consequence is , that he contradicted himself . p. but he doth not speak of a sacramental presence . pr. what again ? but st. augustin makes this an essential difference between a divine and corporal presence ; that the one doth not fill places by its dimensions as the other doth ; so that bodies cannot be in distant places at once . what think you of this ? p. i pray go on . pr. what think you of the manichees doctrine , who held that christ was in the sun and moon when he suffered on the cross ? was this possible or not ? p. what would you draw from hence ? pr. nothing more , but that st. augustin disproved it , because his body could not be at the same time in the sun and moon , and upon earth ? p. as to the ordinary course of nature , st. augustin's argument holds , but not as to the miraculous power of god. pr. there is a difference between the ordinary course of nature , and the unchangeable order of nature . p. let me hear this again ; for it is new doctrine to us . pr. that 's strange ! those things are by the ordinary course of nature , which cannot be changed but by divine power ; but imply no repugnancy for god to alter that course ; but those are by the unchangeable order of nature , which cannot be done without overthrowing the very nature of the things ; and such things are impossible in themselves , and therefore god himself cannot do them . p. it seems then you set bounds to god's omnipotency . pr. doth not the scripture say , there are some things impossible for god to do ? p. yes ; such as are repugnant to his own perfections ; as it is impossible for god to lye . pr. but are there no other things impossible to be done ? what think you of making the time past not to be past ? p. that is impossible in it self . pr. but is it not impossible for the same body to be in two different times ? p. yes . pr. why not then in two or more different places ; since a body is as certainly confined , as to place , as it is to time ? p. you are run now into the point of reason , when we were upon st. augustin's testimony . pr. but i say , st. augustin went upon this ground , that it was repugnant to the nature of a body to be in more places than one at the same time . and so likewise cassian proves , that when christ was upon earth he could not be in heaven , but in regard of his divinity . is there not the same repugnancy for a body in heaven to be upon earth , as for a body upon earth to be in heaven ? p. these are new questions , which i have not met with in our writers , and therefore i shall take time to answer them . but all these testimonies proceed upon a body considered under the nature of a body ; but in the sacrament we consider christ's body as present after the manner of a spirit . pr. that was the next thing i promised to prove from the fathers , that they knew of no such thing , and therefore could not believe your doctrine . have you observed what the fathers say about the difference of body and spirit ? p. not i ; but i have read our authors , who produce them for our doctrine . pr. that is the perpetual fault of your writers , to attend more to the sound of their words , than to the force of their reasonings . they bring places out of popular discourses intended to heighten the peoples devotion , and never compare them with those principles which they assert , when they come to reasoning ; which would plainly shew their other expressions are to be understood in a mystical and figurative sense . but i pray tell me , do you think the fathers had no distinct notion of a body and spirit , and the essential properties of both ? p. yes doubtless . pr. suppose then they made those to lye in such things as are inconsistent with the presence of christ's body in the sacrament after the manner of a spirit ; do you think then they could hold it to be so present ? and if they did not , they could not believe transubstantiation . p. very true . pr. what think you then of st. augustin , who makes it impossible for a body to be without its dimensions and extension of parts ? but you assert a body may be without them ; or else it cannot be after the manner of a spirit , as you say it is in the sacrament . p. i pray shew that st. augustin made it inconsistent with the nature of a body to be otherwise . pr. he saith , that all bodies how gross or subtle soever they be , can never be all every where ( i. e. cannot be indivisibly present after the manner of a spirit ) but must be extended according to their several parts , and whether great or little , must take up a space , and so fill the place , that it cannot be all in any one part. is this possible to be reconciled with your notion of a body being present after the manner of a spirit ? p. to be present after the manner of a spirit , is with us , to be so present , as not to be extended , and to be whole in every part . pr. but this st. augustin saith , no body can be ; and not only there , but elsewhere he saith , take away dimensions from bodies , and they are no longer bodies . and that a greater part takes up a greater space , and a lesser a less ; and must be always less in the part than in the whole . p. but he speaks of extension in it self , and not with respect to place . pr. that is of extension that is not extended ; for if it be , it must have respect to place ; but nothing can be plainer , than that st. augustin doth speak with respect to place . and he elsewhere saith , that every body must have place , and be extended in it . p. but he doth not speak this of the sacrament . pr. but he speaks it of all bodies wheresoever present ; and he doth not except the sacrament , which he would certainly have done , if he had believed as you do concerning it . p. st. augustin might have particular opinions in this , as he had in other things . pr. so far from it , that i shall make it appear , that this was the general sense of the fathers . st. gregory nazianzen saith , that the nature of bodies requires , that they have figure and shape , and may be touched , and seen , and circumscribed . st. cyril of alexandria saith , that if god himself were a body , he must be liable to the properties of bodies , and he must be in a place , as bodies are . and all those fathers , who prove , that god cannot be a body , do it from such arguments as shew , that they knew nothing of a bodies being after the manner of a spirit : for then the force of their arguments is lost , which are taken from the essential properties of a body , such as extension , divisibility , and circumscription . but if a body may be without these , then god may be a body after the manner of a spirit ; and so the spirituality of the divine nature will be taken away . p. i never heard these arguments before , and must take some time to consider . pr. the sooner the better ; and i am sure if you do , you will repent being a new convert . but i have yet something to add to this argument ; viz. that those who have stated the difference between body and spirit , have made extension , and taking up a place , and divisibility , necessary to the very being of a body ; and that what is not circumscribed , is incorporeal . p. methinks your arguments run out to a great length . i pray bring them into a less compass . pr. i proceed to a third argument from the fathers , which will not take up much time ; and that is , that the fathers knew nothing of the subsistence of accidents without their substance , without which transubstantiation cannot be maintained : and therefore in the roman schools , the possibility of accidents subsisting without their subjects , is defended . but on the contrary , maximus , one of the eldest of the fathers , who lived in the second century , affirms it to be of the essence of accidents to be in their substance . st. basil saith , nature doth not bear a distinction between body and figure , altho reason makes one . isidore p●lusiota , saith , that quality cannot be without substance . gregory nyssen , that figure cannot be without body , and that a body cannot be conceived without qualities : and that if we take away colour , and quantity , and resistance , the whole notion of a body is destroy'd . take away space from bodies , saith st. augustin , and they can be no where ; and if they can be no where , they cannot be : and so he saith , if we take away bodies from their qualities . and in plain terms , that no qualities , as colours , or form , can remain without their subject . and that no accidents can be without their subject , is in general affirmed by isidore hispalensis , boethius , damascen , and others , who give an account of the philosophy of the ancients . p. all this proceeds upon the old philosophy of accidents : what if there be none at all ? pr. what then makes the same impression on our senses when the substance is gone , as when it was there ? is there a perpetual miracle to deceive our senses ? but it is impossible to maintain transubstantiation , as it is defined in the church of rome , without accidents : they may hold some other doctrine in the place of it , but they cannot hold that . and that other doctrine will be as impossible to be understood . for if once we suppose the body of christ to be in the sacrament , in place of the substance of the bread , which appears to our senses to be bread still : then suppose there be no accidents , the body of a man must make the same impression on our senses , which the substance of bread doth , which is so horrible an absurdity , that the philosophy of accidents cannot imply any greater than it . so that the new transubstantiators had as good return to the old mumpsimus of accidents . p. i suppose you have now done with this argument . pr. no : i have something farther to say about it , which is , that the fathers do not only assert , that accidents cannot be without their subject , but they confute hereticks on that supposition ; which shew'd their assurance of the truth of it . irenoeus overthrows the valentinian conjugations , because truth can no more be without a subject , than water without moisture , or fire without heat , or a stone without hardness ; which are so joined together , that they cannot be separated . methodius confutes origen's fancy about the soul having the shape of a body without the substance , because the shape and the body cannot be separated from each other . st. augustin proves the immortality of the soul from hence , because meer accidents can never be separated from the body , so as the mind is by abstraction . and in another place he asserts it to be a monstrous absurd doctrine , to suppose that , whose nature is to be in a subject , to be capable of subsisting without it . claudianus mamertus proves , that the soul could not be in the body as its subject ; for then it could not subsist when the body is destroy'd . p. i hope you have now done with this third argument . pr. yes ; and i shall wait your own time for an answer . i go on to a fourth : and that is from the evidence of sense asserted and allowed by the fathers , with respect to the body of christ. p. i expected this before now . for , as the author of the single sheet observes : this is the cock-argument of one of the lights of your church ; and it so far resembles the light , that like it , it makes a glaring shew , but go to grasp it , and you find nothing in your hand . pr. then it 's plain our senses are deceived . p. not as to transubstantiation : for he believes more of his senses than we do : for his eyes tell him there is the colour of bread , and he assents to them ; his tongue , that it has the taste of bread , and he agrees to it : and so for his smelling and feeling : but then he hath a notable fetch in his conclusion : viz. that his ears tell him from the words spoken by christ himself , that it is the body of christ , and he believes these too . is not here one sense more than you believe ? and yet you would persuade the world , that we do not believe our senses . pr. this is admirable stuff ; but it must be tenderly dealt with . for i pray what doth he mean when he saith , he believes from christ's own words , that it is the body of christ ? what is this it ? is it the accidents he speaks of before ? are those accidents then the body of christ ? is it the substance of bread ? but that is not discerned by the senses , he saith : and if it were , will he say , that the substance of bread is the body of christ ? if neither of these , then his believing it is the body of christ , signifies nothing ; for there can be no sense of it . p. however , he shews , that we who believe transubstantiation , do not renounce our senses , as you commonly reproach us : for we believe all that our senses represent to us , which is only the outward appearance . for , as he well observes , if your eyes see the substance of things , they are most extraordinary ones , and better than ours . for our parts , we see no farther than the colour or figure , &c. of things which are only accidents , and the entire object of that sense . pr. is there no difference between the perception of sense , and the evidence of sense ? we grant , that the perception of our senses goes no farther than to the outward accidents ; but that perception affords such an evidence by which the mind doth pass judgment upon the thing represented by the outward sense . i pray tell me , have you any certainty there is such a thing as a material substance in the world ? p. yes . pr. whence comes the certainty of the substance , since your senses cannot discover it ? do we live among nothing but accidents ? or can we know nothing beyond them ? p. i grant we may know in general that there are such things as substances in the world. pr. but can we not know the difference of one substance from another , by our senses ? as for instance , can we not know a man from a horse , or an elephant from a mouse , or a piece of bread from a church ? or do we only know . there are such and such accidents belong to every one of these ; but our senses are not so extraprdinary to discover the substances under them ? i pray answer me one question , did you ever keep lent ? p. what a strange question is this ? did you not tell me , you would avoid impertinencies ? pr. this is none , i assure you . p. then i answer , i think my self obliged to keep it . pr. then you thought your self bound to abstain from flesh , and to eat fish. p. what of all that ? pr. was it the substance of flesh you abstained from , or only the accidents of it ? p. the substance ? pr. and did you know the difference between the substance of flesh and fish by your tast ? p. yes . pr. then you have an extraordinary tast , which goes to the very substance ? p. but this is off from our business , which was about the fathers , and not our own judgment about the evidence of sense . pr. i am ready for you upon that argument . and i only desire to know whether you think the evidence of sense sufficient , as to the true body of christ , where it is supposed to be present ? p. by no means ; for then we could not believe it to be present , where we cannot perceive it . pr. but the fathers did assert the evidence of sense to be sufficient , as to the true body of christ ; so irenoeus , tertullian , epiphanius , hilary , and st. augustin . i will produce their words at length , if you desire them . p. it will be but lost labour , since we deny not , as cardinal bellarmin well saith , the evidence of sense to be a good positive evidence , but not a negative , i. e. that it is a body , which is handled , and felt , and seen ; but not , that it is no body which is not . pr. very well ! and i pray then what becomes of your single sheet man , who so confidently denies sense to be good positive evidence as to a real body ; but only as to the outward appearance ? p. you mistake him ; for he saith , we are to believe our senses , where they are not indisposed , and no divine revelation intervenes , which we believe there doth in this case ; and therefore , unless the fathers speak of the sacrament , we have no reason to regard their testimonies in this matter . but we have stronger evidence against you from the fathers , for they say we are not to rely on the evidence of sense , as to the sacrament . so st. cyril , st. chrysostom , and st. ambrose . pr. i am glad you offer any thing which deserves to be considered . but have you already forgot bellarmin's rule , that sense may be a good positive evidence , but not a negative , i. e. it may discover what is present as a body , but not what is not , and cannot be so present , viz. the invisible grace which goes along with it ; and as to this the fathers might well say , we are not to trust our sense . p. this is making an interpretation for them . pr. no such matter . it is the proper and genuine sense of their words ; as will appear from hence . ( . ) they assert the very same , as to the chrism and baptism , which they do as to the eucharist . ( . ) that which they say , our senses cannot reach , is something of a spiritual nature , and not a body . and here the case is extremely different from the judgment of sense , as to a material substance . and if you please , i will evidently prove from the fathers , that that wherein they excluded the judgment of sense in the eucharist , was something wholly spiritual and immaterial . p. no , no , we have been long enough upon the fathers , unless their evidence were more certain one way or other . for my part , i believe on the account of divine revelation in this matter , this is my body ; here i stick , and the fathers agreed with us herein , that christ's words are not to be taken in a figurative sense . pr. the contrary hath been so plainly proved in a late excellent discourse of transubstantiation , that i wonder none of your party have yet undertaken to answer it ; but they write on , as if no such treatise had appear'd : i shall therefore wave all the proofs that are there produced , till some tolerable answer be given to them . p. methinks you have taken a great liberty of talking about the fathers , as tho they were all on your side ; but our late authors assure us to the contrary ; and i hope i may now make use of them , to shew that transubstantiation was the faith of the ancient church . pr. with all my heart , i even long to hear what they can say in a matter , i think , so clear on our side . p. well , sir , i begin with the consensus veterum , written by one that professed himself a minister of the church of england . pr. make what you can of him , now you have him ; but i will meddle with no personal things , i desire to hear his arguments . p. what say you to r. selomo , interpreting the . psal. v. . of wafers in the days of the messias ; to r. moses haddarsan , on gen. . . and on psal. . , to r. cahana , on gen. . . who was long before the nativity of christ ; r. johai , on numb . . . and to r. judas , who was many years before christ came . pr. can you hold your countenance when you repeat these things ? but any thing must pass from a new convert . what think you of r. cahana , and r. judas , who lived so long before our saviour , when we know that the jews have no writings preserved near to our saviour's time , besides the bible , and some say the paraphrasts upon it . i would have been glad to have seen these testimonies taken from their original authors , and not from galatinus , who is known to have been a notorious plagiary , as to the main of his book , and of little or no credit as to the rest . but it is ridieulous to produce the testimonies of jewish rabbins for transubstantiation , when it is so well known that it is one of their greatest objections against christianity , as taught in the roman church , as may be seen in joseph albo , and others . but what is all this to the testimony of the christian fathers ? p. will not you let a man shew a little jewish learning upon occasion ? but if you have a mind to the fathers , you shall have enough of them ; for i have a large catalogue of them to produce , from the consensus veterum , nubes testium , and the single sheet , which generally agree . pr. with coccius or bellarmin , you mean ; but before you produce them , i pray tell me what you intend to prove by them ? p. the doctrine of our church . pr. as to what ? p. what have we been about all this while ? pr. transubstantiation . will you prove that ? p. why do you suspect me before i begin ? pr. i have some reason for it . let us first agree what we mean by it . do you mean the same which the church of rome doth by it , in the council of trent ? p. what can we mean else ? pr. let us first see what that is . the council of trent declares , that the same body of christ , which is in heaven , is really , truly and substantially present in the eucharist after consecration , under the species of bread and wine . and the roman catechism saith , it is the very body which was born of the virgin , and sits at the right hand of god. ( . ) that the bread and wine after consecration , lose their proper substances , and are changed into that very substance of the body of christ. and an anathema is denounced against those who affirm the contrary . now if you please , proceed to your proofs . p. i begin with the ancient liturgies of st. peter , st. james , and st. matthew . pr. are you in earnest ? p. why ; what is the matter ? pr. do not you know , that these are rejected as supposititious , by your own writers ? and a very late and learned dr. of the sorbon , hath given full and clear evidences of it . p. suppose they are , yet they may be of antiquity enough , to give some competent testimony as to tradition . pr. no such matter : for he proves st. peter 's liturgy , to be later than the sacramentary of st. gregory ; and so can prove nothing for the first years ; and the aethiopick liturgy , or st. matthew's , he shews to be very late . that of st. james , he thinks to have been some time before the five general councils ; but by no means to have been st. james's . p. what think you of the acts of st. andrew , and what he saith therein , about eating the flesh of christ ? pr. i think he saith nothing to the purpose . but i am ashamed to find one , who hath so long been a minister in this church , so extreamly ignorant , as to bring these for good authorities , which are rejected with scorn by all men of learning and ingenuity among you . p. i am afraid you grow angry . pr. i confess , ignorance and confidence together , are very provoking things ; especially , when a man in years pretends to leave our church on such pitiful grounds . p. but he doth produce better authorities . pr. if he doth , they are not to his purpose . p. that must be tried ; what say you to ignatius ? i hope you allow his epistles ? pr. i see no reason to the contrary . but what saith he ? p. he saith , that some hereticks then would not receive the eucharist and oblations , because they will not confess the eucharist to be the flesh of our saviour christ. and this is produced by both authors . pr. the persons ignatius speaks of , were such as denied christ to have any true body , and therefore did forbear the eucharist , because it was said to be his body . and in what ever sense it were taken , it still supposed that which they denied , viz. that he had a true body : for , if it were figuratively understood , it was as contrary to their doctrine , as if it were literally . for a figure must relate to a real body , as tertullian argued in this case . and ignatius in the same epistle , mentions the trial christ made of his true body , by the senses of his disciples , take hold of me , and handle me , and see , for i am no incorporeal doemon ; and immediately they touched him , and were convinced . which happen'd but a few days after christ had said , this is my body ; and our saviour gave a rule for judging a true body , from an appearance , or spiritual substance ; a spirit hath not flesh and bones , as ye see me have . therefore it is very improbable that ignatius so soon after , should assert that christ's true and real body was in the eucharist , where it could be neither seen nor felt : for then he must overthrow the force of his former argument . and to what purpose did christ say , that a spirit had not flesh and bones , as they saw him to have ; if a body of christ might be so much after the manner of a spirit , as tho it had flesh and bones , yet they could not possibly be discerned ? but after all , suppose ignatius doth speak of the substance of christ's flesh , as present in the eucharist ; yet he saith not a word of the changing of the substance of the bread into the substance of christ's body ; which was the thing to be proved . p. but justin martyr doth speak of the change , and his words are produced by all three . and they are thus rendred in the single sheet . for we do not receive this as common bread , or common drink , but as by the word of god , jesus christ our redeemer being made man , had both flesh and blood for our salvation ; so also , we are taught that this food , by which our blood and flesh are by a change nourished , being consecrated by the power of the word , is the flesh and blood of jesus christ incarnate : what say you to this ? pr. i desire you to consider these things . ( . ) that justin martyr doth not say , that the bread and wine are by consecration changed into the individual flesh and blood , in which christ was incarnate ; but that , as by the power of the word , christ once had a body in the womb of the virgin ; so by the power of the same word , upon consecration , the bread and wine do become the flesh and blood of christ incarnate ; so that he must mean a parallel , and not the same individual body , i. e. that as the body in the womb became the body of christ by the power of the holy spirit ; so the holy spirit after consecration , makes the elements to become the flesh and blood of christ , not by an hypostatical union , but by divine influence , as the church is the body of christ. and this was the true notion of the ancient church , as to this matter , and the expressions in the greek liturgies to this day confirm the same . ( . ) he doth not in the least imply that the elements by this change do lose their substance ; for he mentions the nourishment of our bodies by it ; but he affirms , that notwithstanding their substance remain , yet the divine spirit of christ , by its operation , doth make them become his body . for we must observe , that he attributes the body in the womb , and on the altar , to the same 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or divine word . for he did not think hypostatical union necessary , to make the elements become the body of christ , but a divine energy was sufficient , as the bodies assumed by angels are their bodies , tho there be no such vital union , as there is between the soul and body of a man. p. i go on to irenoeus , from whom two places are produced , one by the consensus veterum , where he saith , that which is bread from the earth , perceiving the call of god , now is not common bread , but the eucharist , consisting of two things , one earthly , and the other spiritual . pr. very well ! then there is an earthly , as well as a spiritual thing in the eucharist , i. e. a bodily substance , and divine grace . p. no ; he saith , the earthly is the accidents . pr. doth irenoeus say so ? p. no ; but he means so . pr. there is not a word to that purpose in irenoeus ; and therefore this is downright prevarication . i grant irenoeus doth suppose a change made by divine grace ; but not by destroying the elements , but by super-adding divine grace to them ; and so the bread becomes the body of christ , and the wine his blood. p. the other place in irenoeus is , where he saith , that as the bread receiving the word of god , is made the eucharist , which is the body and blood of christ , so also our bodies being nourished by it , and laid in the earth , and there dissolved , will arise at their time , &c. pr. what do you prove from this place ? p. that the same divine power is seen in making the eucharist the body and blood of christ , which is to be in the resurrection of the body . pr. but doth this prove , that the substance of the bread is changed into the substance of christ's body ? p. why not ? pr. i will give you a plain argument against it ; for he saith , our bodies are nourished by the body and blood of christ. do you think that irenoeus believed the substance of christ's body was turned into the substance of our bodies , in order to their nourishment ? no ; he explained himself just before in the same place ; de calice qui est sanguis ejus , nutritur ; & de pane qui est corpus ejus ; augetur : so that he attributes the nourishment to the bread and wine ; and therefore must suppose the substance of them to remain , since it is impossible a substantial nourishment should be made by meer accidents . and withal , observe , he saith expresly , that the bread is the body of christ ; which your best writers ( such as bellarmin , suarez and vasquez ) say , is inconsistent with transubstantiation . p. my next author is tertullian , who is produced by the consensus veterum , and the single sheet , but omitted by the nubes testium ; but the other proves , that bread which was the figure of christ's body in the old testament , now in the new , is changed into the real and true body of christ. pr. this is a bold attempt upon tertullian , to prove , that by the figure of christ's body , he means his true and real body . for his words are , acceptum panem & distributum discipulis corpus illum suum fecit , hoc est corpus meum dicendo , id est , figura corporis mei . he took the bread , and gave it to his disciples , and made it his body , saying , this is my body ; i. e. this is the figure of my body . how can those men want proofs , that can draw transubstantiation from these words , which are so plain against it ? p. you are mistaken ; tertullian by figure meant , it was a figure in the old testament , but it was now his real body . pr. you put very odd figures upon tertullian : i appeal to any reasonable man , whether by the latter words he doth not explain the former ? for he puts the sense upon corpus meum , by adding dicendo to them ; i. e. this is the meaning of that speech , when he calleth the bread his body . p. doth not tertullian say , that it had not been the figure , unless it had been the truth ? pr. this is again perverting his words , which are , figuratum non fuisset nisi veritatis esset corpus ; i. e. there had been no place for a figure of christ's body , unless christ had a true body . for he was proving against marcion , that christ had a true body ; and among other arguments he produces this from the figure of his body , which he not only mentions here , but in other places ; where he saith , that christ gave the figure of his body to the bread ; which cannot relate to any figure of the old testament . p. but doth not tertullian say afterwards , that the bread was the figure of christ's body in the old testament ? pr. what then ? he had two designs against marcion ; one to prove , that christ had a true body , which he doth here from the figure of his body : and the other , that there was a correspondency of both testaments : and for that purpose he shews , that the bread in jeremiah , was the figure of christ's body . p. but the author of the single sheet , cites another place of tertullian , where he saith , that our flesh feeds on the body and blood of christ , that our soul may be filled with god. pr. by the body and blood of christ , he means there , the elements , with divine grace going along with them ; as appears by his design , which is , to shew how the body and soul are joyned together in sacramental rites . the flesh is washed , and the soul is cleansed ; the flesh is anointed , and the soul consecrated ; the flesh is signed , and the soul confirmed ; the flesh hath hands laid upon it , and the soul enlighten'd ; the flesh feeds on the body and blood of christ , that the soul may be filled with god. now unless tertullian meant the elements , the parallel doth not proceed ; for all the rest are spoken of the external symbols ; and so this doth not at all contradict what he saith elsewhere , no more than the passage in the second book aduxorem doth . for there he speaks of christ , with respect to the invisible grace , as he doth here , as to the outward symbols . p. clemens alexandrinus saith , that melchisedeck gave bread and wine in figure of the eucharist . pr. and what then ? what is this to transubstantiation ? p. origen saith , when you eat and drink the body and blood of our lord , then our lord enters under your roof , &c. pr. are you sure that origen said this ? but suppose he did , must he enter with his flesh and bones , and not much rather by a peculiar presence of his grace ? for is it not origen who so carefully distinguishes the typical and symbolical body of christ , from the divine word , and so expresly mentions the material part of the elements after consecration , which pass into the draught , &c. is all this meant of the accidents only ? p. what say you to st. cyprian de coena domini ? pr. i beg your pardon , sir ; this is now known and acknowledged to be a late author , in comparison , and cannot come within your years ; and therefore is not ancient enough to be considered . p. but in his genuine writings he speaks of those who offer'd violence to the body and blood of our lord in the eucharist . pr. and i pray what follows ? that the substance of the elements is gone : where lies the consequence ? but st. cyprian saith , the bread was his body , and the wine his blood ; therefore their substance must remain . p. what say you to eusebius emesenus ? pr. that he is not within our compass ; and withal , that he is a known counterfeit . p. i perceive you are hard to please . pr. you say very true , as to supposititious writers . p. i hope you have more reverence for the council of nice . pr. but where doth that speak of transubstantiation ? p. it calls the eucharist the body of christ. pr. and so doth the church of england ; therefore that holds transubstantiation . i pray bring no more such testimonies , which prove nothing but what we hold . p. i perceive you have a mind to cut me short . pr. not in the least , where you offer any thing to the purpose . but i pray spare those who only affirm , that the eucharist is the body and blood of christ after consecration . for i acknowledg it was the language of the church , especially in the fourth century , when the names of the elements were hardly mention'd to the catechumens ; and all the discourses of the fathers to them , tended to heighten the devotion and esteem of the eucharist . by which observation you may easily understand the meaning of the eloquent writers of that age , who speak with so much mystery and obscurity about it . if you have any that go beyond lofty expressions , and rhetorical flights , i pray produce them . p. i perceive you are afraid of s. greg. nazianzen , and s. basil , but especially s. chrysostom , you fence so much beforehand against eloquent men. pr. as to the other two , there is nothing material alledged by any to this purpose ; but s. chrysostom , i confess , doth speak very lofty things concerning the sacrament in his popular discourses , but yet nothing that doth prove transubstantiation . p. what think you of his homilies , and . on s. mat. . homily on s. john . homily on st to the corinth . the homilies on philogonius and the cross ? are there not strange things in them concerning the eucharist ? about eating christ , and seeing him lie before them slain on the altar ; about touching his body there , and the holy spirit , with an innumerable host , hovering over what is there proposed , with much more to that purpose . pr. you need not to recite more ; for i yield that st. chrysostom delighted in the highest flights of his eloquence , on this subject , in his homilies ; and he tells for what reason , to excite the reverence and devotion of the people . but yet himself doth afford us a sufficient key to these expressions , if we attend to these things concerning his manner of speaking : ( . ) that he affirms those things which no side can allow to be literally understood . as when he so often speaks of our seeing and touching christ upon the altar , which is inconsistent with the doctrine of transubstantiation : for christ is utterly invisible on the altar , even by divine power , saith suarez . he is invisible in the sacrament . saith bellarmin ; and he saith also , that he cannot be touched . what then is to be said to such expressions of s. chrysostom ? behold thou seest him , thou touchest him , thou eatest him . it is not his sacrament only which is offer'd us to touch , but himself . what if you do not hear his voice , do you not see him lying before you ? behold christ lying before you slain . christ lies on the holy table , as a sacrifice slain for us . thou swearest upon the holy table where christ lies slain . when thou seest our lord lying on the table , and the priest praying and the by-standers purpled with his blood. see the love of christ ; he doth not only suffer himself to be seen by those who desire it , but to be touched and eaten , and our teeth to be fixed in his flesh. now these expressions are on all sides granted to be literally absurd and impossible ; and therefore we must say of him as bonaventure once said of s. augustin , plus dicit sanctus & minus vult intelligi ; we must make great allowance for such expressions , or you must hold a capernaitical sense . and it is denied by your selves , that christ is actually slain upon the altar ; and therefore you yield , that such expressions are to be figuratively understood . ( . ) that he le ts fall many things in such discourses which do give light to the rest : as , ( . ) that flesh is improperly taken when applied to the eucharist . ( . ) he calls the sacrament the mystical body and blood of christ. ( . ) that the eating of christ's flesh is not to be understood literally , but spiritually . ( . ) he opposes christ's sacramental presence , and real corporal presence to each other . ( . ) he still exhorts the communicants to look upwards towards heaven . and now if you lay these things together , this eloquent father will not , with all his flights , come near to transubstantiation . p. no! in one place he asserts the substance of the elements to be lost . pr. thanks to the latin translators , for the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as the criticks observe , doth not signify to destroy , but to refine , and purify a substance . but i do not rely upon this ; for the plain answer is , that s. chrysostom doth not there speak of the elements upon consecration , but what becomes of them , after they are taken down into the stomach . st. chrysostom thought it would lessen the peoples reverence and devotion , if they passed into the draught , as origen affirmed ; and therefore he started another opinion ; viz. that as wax , when it is melted in the fire , throws off no superfluities , but it passes indiscernably away ; so the elements , or mysteries , as he calls them , pass imperceptibly into the substance of the body , and so are consumed together with it . therefore , saith he , approach with reverence , not supposing that you receive the divine body from a man , but as with tongs of fire from the seraphims : which the author of the consensus veterum translates , but fire from the tongues of seraphims . s. chrysostom's words are , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : and the sense is , that the divine body ( i. e. the eucharist , after consecration , being by the divine spirit made the divine body , as in st. chrysostom's liturgy , there is a particular prayer for the holy ghost to come , and so make the bread to be the divine body , or the holy body of christ ) , is to be taken , not with our mouths , which can only receive the elements , but after a divine manner , as with tongs of fire from seraphims ; by which he expresses the spiritual acts of faith and devotion , as most agreeable to that divine spirit which makes the elements to become the holy body of christ. but that st. chrysostom did truly and firmly believe the substance of the bread to remain after consecration , i have already proved from his epistle to coesarius . p. i pray let us not go backward , having so much ground to run over still . pr. i am content , if you will produce only those who speak of the change of substance , and not such as only mention the body and blood of christ after consecration , which i have already told you , was the language of the church ; and therefore all those testimonies are of no force in this matter . p. then i must quit the greatest part of what remains , as optatus , gaudentius , s. jerom , and others ; but i have some still left which will set you hard . what say you then to gregory nyssen , who saith , the sanctified bread is changed into the body of the word of god. and he takes off your answer of a mystical body ; for he puts the question , how the same body can daily be distributed to the faithful throughout the world , it remaining whole and entire in it self ? pr. gregory nyssen was a man of fancy , and he shewed it in that catechetical discourse : however , fronto ducoeus thought it a notable place to prove transubstantiation , which i wonder at , if he attended to the design of it ; which was to shew , that as our bodies , by eating , became subject to corruption , so by eating they become capable of immortality ; and this he saith , must be by receiving an immortal body into our b dies , such as the body of christ was : but then , saith he , how could that body , which is to remain whole in it self , be distributed to all the faithful over the whole earth ? he answers , by saying , that our bodies do consist of bread and wine , which are their proper nourishment ; and christ's body being like ours , that was so too ; which by the uni●n with the word of god , was changed into a divine dignity . but what is this to the eucharist , you may say ? he goes on therefore , so i believe the sanctified bread , by the power of the word of god , to be changed into the body of god the word . not into that individual body , but after the same manner , by a presence of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or god the word in it ; and that this was his meaning , doth evidently appear by what follows . for , saith he , that body , viz. to which , he was incarnate , was sanctified by the inhabitation of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , dwelling in the flesh ; therefore , as the bread was then changed into a divine dignity in the body , so it is now ; and the bread is changed into the body of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( not of jesus christ ) as it was said by the word , this is my body . and so by receiving this divine body into our bodies , they are made capable of immortality . and this is the true account of gregory nyssen's meaning , which if it prove any thing , proves an impanation , rather than transubstantiation . p. but hilary's testimony cannot be so avoided ; who saith , that we as truly eat christ's flesh in the sacrament , as he was truly incarnate ; and that we are to judg of this ; not by carnal reason , but by the words of christ , who said , my flesh is meat indeed , and my blood is drink indeed . pr. i do not deny this to be hilary's sense . but yet this proves nothing like to transubstantiation . for it amounts to no more than a real presence of the body of christ in the sacrament ; and you can make no argument from hence , unless you can prove that the body of christ cannot be present , unless the substance of the bread be destroy'd , which is more than can be done , or than hilary imagined . all that he aimed at , was to prove a real union between christ and his people , that christ was in them more than by meer consent ; and to prove this , he lays hold of those words of our saviour , my flesh is meat indeed , &c. but the substantial change of the bread into the substance of christ's body , signifies nothing to his purpose ; and bellarmin never so much as mentions hilary in his proofs of transubstantiation , but only for the real presence . but i must add something more , viz. that hilary was one of the first who drew any argument from the literal sense of john . i do not say , who did by way of accommodation , apply them to the sacrament , which others might do before him . but yet , there are some of the eldest fathers , who do wholly exclude a literal sense , as tertullian look'd on it , as an absurdity that christ should be thought truly to give his flesh to eat . quasi vere carnem suam illis edendam determinasset . and origen saith , it is a killing letter , if those words be literally understood . but this is to run into another debate , whereas our business is about transubstantiation . if you have any more , let us now examine their testimonies . p. what say you then to st. ambrose , who speaks home to the business , for he makes the change to be above nature , and into the body of christ , born of the virgin ? there are long citations out of him , but in these words lies the whole strength of them . pr. i answer , several things for clearing of his meaning . ( . ) that st. ambrose doth parallel the change in the eucharist , with that in baptism ; and to prove regeneration therein , he argues from the miraculous conception of christ in the womb of the virgin ; but in baptism no body supposes the substance of the water to be taken away ; and therefore it cannot hold as to the other , from the supernatural change ; which may be only with respect to such a divine influence , which it had not before consecration . ( . ) he doth purposely talk obscurely and mystically about this matter , as the fathers were wont to do to those , who were to be admitted to these mysteries . sometimes one would think he meant that the elements are changed into christ's individual body born of the virgin : and yet presently after , he distinguishes between the true flesh of christ , which was crucified and buried , and the sacrament of his flesh. if this were the same , what need any distinction ? and that this sacramentum carnis , is meant of the eucharist , is plain by what follows ; for he cites christ's words , this is my body . ( . ) he best explains his own meaning , when he saith , not long after , that the body of christ in the sacrament , is a spiritual body , or a body produced by the divine spirit ; and so he parallels it with that spiritual food , which the israelites did eat in the wilderness : and no man will say , that the substance of the manna was then lost . and since your authors make the same st. ambrose , to have written the book de sacramentis , there is a notable passage therein , which helps to explain this ; for there he saith expresly , non iste panis est qui vadit in corpus , sed ille panis vitoe eternoe qui animoe nostroe substantiam fulcit . it is not the bread which passes into the body , but the bread of eternal life , which strengthens the substance of our soul. where he not only calls it bread after consecration , which goes to our nourishment ; but he distinguishes it from the bread of eternal life , which supports the soul , which must be understood of divine grace , and not of any bodily substance . p. i perceive you will not leave us one father of the whole number . pr. not one . and i hope this gives an incomparable advantage to the doctrine of the trinity in point of tradition , above transubstantiation : when i have not only proved , that the greatest of the fathers expresly denied it , but that there is not one in the whole number who affirmed it . for altho there were some difference in the way of explaining how the eucharist was the body and blood of christ ; yet not one of them hitherto produced , doth give any countenance to your doctrine of transubstantiation , which the council of trent declared to have been the constant belief of the church in all ages ; which is so far from being true , that there is as little ground to believe that , as transubstantiation it self . and so much as to this debate , concerning the comparing the doctrine of the trinity and transubstantiation , in point of tradition ; if you have any thing to say further , as to scripture and reason , i shall be ready to give you satisfaction the next opportunity . finis . books lately printed for w. rogers . the doctrines and practices of the church of rome , truly represented ; in answer to a book , intituled , a papist misrepresented , and represented , &c. quarto . third edition . an answer to a discourse , intituled , papists protesting against protestant popery ; being a vindication of papists not misrepresented by protestants to . second edition . an answer to the amicable accommodation of the differences between the representer and the answerer . quarto . a view of the whole controversie , between the representer and the answerer ; with an answer to the representer's last reply . to . the doctrine of the trinity and transubstantiation compared as to scripture , reason , and tradition ; in a new dialogue between a protestant and a papist , the first part ; wherein an answer is given to the late proofs of the antiquity of transubstantiation , in the books called , consensus veterum , and nubes testium , &c. quarto . the doctrine of the trinity , and transubstantiation , compared as to scripture , reason , and tradition , in a new dialogue between a protestant and a papist , the second part ; wherein the doctrine of the trinity is shewed to be agreeable to scripture and reason , and transubstantiation repugnant to both . quarto . a discourse concerning the nature of idolatry ; in which the bishop of oxford's true and only notion of idolatry is considered and confuted . to . the absolute impossibility of transubstantiation demonstrated . to . a letter to the superiours , ( whether bishops or priests ) which approve or license the popish books in england , particularly to those of the jesuits order , concerning lewis sabran a jesuit . a preservative against popery ; being some plain directions to unlearned protestants , how to dispute with romish priests . the first part. the fourth edition . the second part of the preservative against popery ; shewing how contrary popery is to the true ends of the christian religion . fitted for the instruction of unlearned protestants . the second edition . a vindication of both parts of the preservative against popery ; in answer to the cavils of lewis sabran , jesuit . a discourse concerning the nature , unity aed communion of the catholick church ; wherein most of the controversies relating to the church , are briefly and plainly stated . the first part. to . these four last by william sherlock , d. d. master of the temple . imprimatur , guil. needham rr. in christo p. ac d. d. wilhelmo archiep. cant. a sac. dom. ex aedib . lambeth , feb. . . the doctrine of the trinity and transubstantiation compared , as to scripture , reason , and tradition , in a new dialogue between a protestant and a papist . the second part . wherein the doctrine of the trinity is shewed to be agreeable to scripture and reason , and transubstantiation repugnant to both . london : printed for william rogers at the sun in fleet-street , over against st. dunstan's church . mdc lxxx vii . the doctrine of the trinity and transubstantiation compared , &c. pr. i hope you are now at leisure to proceed with your parallel between the doctrine of the trinity and transubstantiation , as to scripture and reason . p. yes , and am resolved to make good all that i have said , as to both those . pr. and if you do , i will yield the cause . p. i begin with scripture . and the whole dispute as to both , depends on this : whether the scripture is to be understood literally or figuratively . if literally , then transubstantiation stands upon equal terms with the trinity ; if figuratively , then the trinity can no more be proved from scripture , than transubstantiation . pr. as tho there might not be reason for a figurative sense in one place , and a literal in another . p. it seems then , you resolve it into reason . pr. and i pray , into what would you resolve it ? into no reason ? p. into the authority of the church . pr. without any reason ? p. no : there may be reason for that authority , but not for the thing which i believe upon it . pr. then you believe the doctrine of the trinity , meerly , because the church tells you it is the literal sense of scripture which you are to follow . but suppose a man sees no reason for this authority of your church ; ( as for my part , i do not ) have you no reason to convince such a one that he ought to believe the trinity ? p. not i. for i think men are bound to believe as the church teaches them , and for that reason . pr. what is it , i pray , to believe ? p. to believe , is to give our assent to what god reveals . pr. and hath god revealed the doctrine of the trinity to the church in this age ? p. no ; it was revealed long ago . pr. how doth it appear ? p. by the scripture sensed by the church . pr. but whence come you to know that the church is to give the sense of the scriptures ? is it from the scripture , or not ? p. from the scripture doubtless , or else we could not believe upon the churches testimony . pr. but suppose the question be , about the sense of these places which relate to the churches authority , how can a man come to the certain sense of them ? p. hold a little , i see whither you are leading me ; you would sain draw me into a snare , and have me say , i believe the sense of scripture from the authority of the church , and the authority of the church from the sense of scripture . pr. do you not say so in plain terms ? p. give me leave to answer for my self . i say in the case of the churches authority , i believe the sense of scripture without relying on the churches authority . pr. and why not as well in any other ? why not as to the trinity , which to my understanding , is much plainer there , than the churches authority ? p. that is strange : is not the church often spoken of in scripture ? tell the church . upon this rock will i build my church , &c. pr. but we are not about the word church , which is no doubt there , but the infallible authority of the church ; and whether that be more clear in the scripture than the doctrine of the trinity . p. i see you have a mind to change your discourse , and to run off from the trinity to the churches authority in matters of faith ; which is a beaten subject . pr. your church doth not tell you so ; and therefore you may upon your own grounds be deceived ; and i assure you that you are so ; for i intended only to shew you , that for points of faith we must examine and compare scripture our selves , and our faith must rest on divine revelation therein contained . p. then you think the trinity can be proved from scripture ? pr. or else i should never believe it . p. but those places of scripture you go upon , may bear a figurative sense , as john . . i and my father are one ; and john . . and those three are one ; and if they do so , you can never prove the trinity from them . pr. i say therefore , that the doctrine of the trinity doth not depend merely on these places , but on very many others , which help to the true sense of these ; but transu●stantiation depends upon one single expression , this is my body , which relates to a figurative thing in the sacrament ; and which hath other expressions joined with it , which are owned to be figurative ; this cup is the new testament in my blood ; and which in the literal sense cannot prove transubstantiation , as your own writers confess , and which is disproved by those places of scripture , which assert the bread and the fruit of the vine to remain after consecration . p. shew the literal sense as to the trinity to be necessary ; for i perceive you would fain go off again . pr. will you promise to hold close to the argument your self ? p. you need not fear me . pr. i pray tell me , were there not false religions in the world when christ came into it to plant the true religion ? p. yes ; but how far is this from the business ? pr. have a little patience ; did not christ design by his doctrine to root out those false religions ? p. that is evident from scripture and church history . pr. then christs religion and theirs were inconsistent . p. and what then ? pr. wherein did this inconsistency lie ? p. the gentiles worshipped false gods instead of the true one. pr. then the christian religion teaches the worship of the true god instead of the false ones . p. who doubts of that ? pr. then it cannot teach the worship of a false god instead of the true one. p. a false god is one that is set up in opposition to the true god , as the gods of the heathens were . pr. is it lawful by the christian doctrine to give proper divine worship to a creature ? p. i think not ; for christ said , thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve : which our church understands of proper divine worship . pr. but the scripture requires proper divine worship to be given to christ ; which is to require proper divine worship to be given to a creature , if christ be not true god by nature . p. may not god communicate his own worship to him ? pr. but god hath said , he will not give his glory to another , isa. . . and the reason is considerable , which is there given ; i am the lord , that is my name ; which shews that none but the true jehovah is capable of divine worship : for adoration is done to god only on the account of his incommunicable perfections , and therefore the reason of divine worship cannot reach to any creature . p. not without gods will and pleasure . but may not god advance a mere creature to that dignity , as to require divine worship to be given to him by his fellow-creatures ? pr. wherein lies the nature of that which you call proper divine worship ? p. in a due esteem of god in our minds , as the first cause and last end of his creatures , and such acts as are agreeable thereto . pr. then proper divine worship doth suppose an esteem of god as infinitely above his creatures ; and how then is it possible for us to give the same worship to god , and to a creature ? for if the distance be infinite between god and his creatures , and we must judg of things as they are , then we must in our minds suppose a creature to be infinitely distant srom god ; and if we do so , how is it possible to give the same divine worship in this sense to god , and to any creature ? p. and what now would you infer from hence ? pr. do not you see already ? viz. that god cannot be supposed to allow divine worship to be given to christ , if he were a mere creature ; and therefore since such divine worship is required by the christian doctrine , it follows , that those expressions which speak of his being one with the father , cannot be figuratively understood . p. but where is it , that such divine worship is required to be given to christ in scripture ? for , according to my principles , the church is to set the bounds and measures of divine worship , and to declare what worship is due to god ; what to christ ; what to saints and angels ; what to men upon earth ; what to images , sacraments , &c. and if we depart from this rule , i know not where we shall fix . pr. i pray tell me , doth the difference between god and his creatures , depend on the will of the church ? p. no. pr. is it then in the churches power to give that to a creature , which belongs only to god ? p. i think not . pr. who then is to be judg what belongs to god , and what not ? god or the church ? p. god himself , if he pleases . pr. then our business is to search what his will and pleasure is in this matter , by reading the scriptures , wherein his will is contained : and there we find it expressed , that all men should h●nour the son , even as they honour the father , john . . let all the angels of god worship him , heb. . . blessing , and honour , and glory , and power be unto him that sitteth on the throne , and to the lamb for ever and ever , revel . . . that at the name of jesus every knee should bow , of things in heaven , and things in earth , &c. phil. . . if it were gods great design , by the christian doctrine , to restore in the world a due sense of the infinite distance between god and his creatures ; could any thing be more repugnant to it , than in the same doctrine to advance a creature to a participation of the same divine honour with himself ? so that in plain truth , the idolatry of the world lay only in a bad choice of the creatures they were to worship , and not in giving proper divine worship to a creature ; for that christianity it self not only allows , but requires , on supposition that christ were god merely by office , and was originally a creature , as we are . but i pray observe the force of the apostles argument , speaking of the gentile idolatry ; he saith it lay in this , that they did service unto them , which by nature are no gods , gal. . . p. you know , i must now personate the anti-trinitarian ; and he answers , that by nature no more is implied , than truly and really , i. e. god did not advance those creatures among the gentiles to that worship and honour , which he hath done christ. pr. then you make it lawful by the gospel to believe christ to be a mere creature , and at the same time to give him divine worship , which supposes him not to be a creature ; and so you must believe him to be a creature , and not to be a creature , at the same time . p. how do you make that appear ? pr. from your own words ; for you say , proper divine worship lies in a due esteem of god in our minds , as the first cause and last end , and in actions agreeable thereto ; then to give divine worship to god , we must believe him to be above all creatures as to his nature and being ; and theresore to give christ divine worship , must imply our believing him not to be a creature , and to be a creature at the same time . p. but the meaning of divine worship here must not then relate to acts of the mind , but to outward acts of adoration in the church . pr. were the gentiles guilty of idolatry in that respect , or not ? p. yes ; but not those , whom god requires to worship in such a manner . pr. then the sin of gentile-idolatry lay only in giving divine worship to a creature without gods command ; which lessens it to that degree , as to make will-worship and idolatry the same ; and to blame the apostles , for making such a dreadful sin of it , and disswading christians so much from returning to the practice of it : for they had the priviledg of giving divine worship to a creature by gods command , which others were damned for doing without a command ; which makes the christian religion not to appear so reasonable , as the anti-trinitarians contend it is . but here are four foul mistakes in point of reason , which they are guilty of . ( . ) in making the sin of idolatry so arbitrary a thing ; which depends not on the nature of the object which is worshipped , but on the will and pleasure of god. ( . ) in making the gentiles guilty of a great sin , meerly in wanting a divine command , which was out of their power . ( . ) in making the christian religion to set up the worship of a creature , when its design was to root out idolatry . ( . ) in making a fictitious god , or a creature to be advanced to the throne of god. which i think is far more contradictious to reason , than a trinity of persons in the unity of the same nature . for nothing can be more absurd than to make that to be god , which wants all the essential attributes and perfections of god ; as every creature must do : such as self-existence , eternity , independency , immensity , omnipotency , &c. what a contradiction is it , to suppose a weak , impotent , depending , confined , created god ? and such every creature must be in its nature , or else it is no creature . i do not at all wonder to find the socinians after this , to lessen the natural knowledg of god , and his infinite perfections , both as to power and knowledg ; for it was their concernment to bring the notion of god as low as possible , that a creature might be in the nearer capacity of being made god. but those who consider and know what god is , and what he must be , if he be god , will find far greater difficulty in making man to be god , than in believing god to be made man. for this implies no greater difficulty , than meerly as to our conception , how an infinite being can be so united to a finite , as to become one person ; which implies no repugnancy , but only some thing above our capacity to comprehend . and we confess our selves puzled in the manner of conceiving how a finite spitit , which can pass through a body , can be so united to it , as to make a man by that union ; yet we all acknowledg the truth of this . but to suppose a creature capable of being made god , is to overthrow the essential difference between god and his creatures , and the infinite distance between them . which is of very pernicious consequence , as to the great ends of the christian religion , which were to reform the world , and to restore the distinction between god and his creatures ; which by the prevalency of idolatry was almost lost in the world : the supreme god being hardly discerned in such a croud of created and fictitious gods. and this very argument is enough to turn my stomack against socinianism or arianism . p. i had thought all men of sense among you , had been socinians ; i have often heard them charged with being so . pr. you see how grosly you are deceived , notwithstanding your pretence to infallibility . i do not pretend to any deep reach , but i see reason enough to be no socinian . p. let us return to our matter in hand . what say you to those texts which are said to be inconsistent with the literal sense of those before mention'd , which relate to the unity between father and son ? pr. what texts do you mean ? p. what say you to joh. . from the . to the ? pr. i wonder what it is produced for . p. it is said , joh. . . i and my father are one ; now it is highly unreasonable to interpret these words literally , because of those which follow . pr. how doth that appear ? for v. . it is said , that the jews took up stones to stone him : which shews , that they look'd on him as speaking blasphemy . but what blasphemy was it for christ to declare an unity of consent between him and his father ; which in truth is nothing , but doing his father's will ? therefore it is plain that the jews did apprehend more in those words of our saviour . and they explain themselves , v. . what they understood by them , because that thou being a man , makest thy self god. which shews that they thought not an unity of consent , but of nature , was meant . p. but christ's answer shews , that he speaks only of a god by office , and not by nature , v. . jesus answered them , is it not written in your law , i said ye are gods ? pr. i pray go on , and see how christ argues , v. , . if he called them gods , unto whom the word of god came , and the scripture cannot be broken ; say ye of him , whom the father hath sent into the world , thou blasphemest , because i said i am the son of god ? p. this only shews that christ had greater reason to be called god , but not that he was so by nature . pr. i pray go on still , v. , . if i do not the works of my father , believe me not . but if i do , tho ye believe not me , believe the works , that ye may know and believe that the father is in me , and i in him . p. is it not said elsewhere , that he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him , and he in him ? joh. . . would you hence infer an unity of nature between christ and believers ? pr. i do not lay the weight on the phrase , but as it is the conclusion of the dispute between christ and the jews . and it ought to be observed , that this was the end of the third conference between christ and the jews upon this argument . the first was john . and then from christ's saying , the father worketh hitherto , and i work , v. . the jews infer'd v. . that he made himself equal with god. in the second conference , john . he said , before abraham was , i am , v. . and then the jews took up stones to cast at him . after this followed this third conference , john. . and this runs again into the same point , that he being a man , made himself god. and these conferences were all publick , in or near the temple , and this last was in solomons porch , john . . a place of great resort , and near the place where the sanhedrim sate , who were the judges in the case of blasphemy . now the force of my argument from hence , lies in these things : ( . ) that christ certainly knew , that the jews did think by his discourse , that he made himself equal with god. . that if it were not true , it was notorious blasphemy , and so esteemed by the jews . . that such a mistake ought to have been presently corrected , and in the plainest manner ; as we find it was done by st. paul , when the men of lystra said , the gods are come down to us in the likeness of men ; for he ran in presently among them , and said , we are men of like passions with you , acts . , . it is impossible for me to think , that if christ had known himself to be a meer man , he would have suffered the jews to have run away with such a mistake as this , without giving them the clearest and plainest information ; whereas in all his answers he vindicates himself , and endeavours rather to fasten those impressions upon them , as appears by this conclusion of the last conference , that ye may know and believe , that the father is in me , and i in him . doth this look like correcting a dangerous mistake in the jews ? and is it not rather a justification of that sense , which they took his words in ? and in the first conference , john . our saviour is so far from doing as st. paul did , that he challenges divine honour as due to himself , that all men should honour the son , as they honour the father , v. . from whence it follows , that christ must be charged as one , who being a meer man , did affect divine honour ; or else , that being god as well as man , he looked on it as justly due to him . i pray tell me what sense do your friends the socinians make of those words of st. paul , phil. . , . who being in the form of god , thought it not robbery to be equal with god , but made himself of no reputation , &c. p. the sense they give , is this , that he did not make a shew or ostentation of his own greatness , but studiously concealed it , and therein shewed his great humility . pr. but is there any greatness like that of divine honour ? and yet this he challenged to himself . p. but he knew what the father designed him for , and so spake those things by way of prediction . pr. he knew no creature could deserve divine worship , and he deliver'd that as part of his own doctrine ; and therefore those words , where he is said , to make himself equal with god , must be understood of nature , and not of office. p. but st. john . . saith , that christ prayed to his father , for his disciples , that they may be one , as we are one ; and that is not by unity of nature . pr. i grant it . but our saviour there speaks of a true , but a lower kind of unity ; or else the socinians must think every believer as capable of divine honour , as christ himself , if they take those words strictly , that they may be one , as we are one . p. st. paul saith , he that planteth , and he that watereth , is one , cor. . . pr. who doubts but there are other sorts of unities , besides that of nature ? but , doth this prove that there is no unity of nature between the father and the son ? if we have no better arguments against transubstantiation , we will give over disputing . p. i know you have other arguments for the trinity , but they prove as little without the authority of the church ; as from those places where christ is called god , as joh. . , . rom. . , &c. pr. and i think the argument from those places , very good and strong , especially from john . , , . and it seems directly contrary to the whole design of scripture to call any one god over all , blessed for evermore , as christ is called , rom. . . but he that is god by natuce . p. how do you prove that john . . relates to any thing beyond the beginning of the gospel , and that christ the word , was before john the baptists preaching ? pr. i desire any one to read the text impartially , and he will find the socinian sense to be unnatural , forced , obscure and jejune , proving a thing of no moment at that time ; but the sense we give , to be strong , weighty , consistent , and of very great consequence at that time , when the cerinthians denied the divinity of christ. the sentences are short , the words lofty and significant , the manner of beginning unusual ; so that any one would expect some great and extraordinary matter to be said in these few verses ; but what a frustration were this , if after all , they intended no more , than that altho john baptist preached in publick before christ , yet that christ was in being before that ? which is a sense so mean , so remote from the occasion of his writing , as it is deliver'd by the ancients , that nothing but a miserable necessity could make men of wit and subtilty to put such a sense upon st. john's words . p. but they deny there was any such occasion of st. john's writing , as the cerinthians heresy at that time . pr. i know socinus doth so ; but he might as well have denied that there was any such person as cerinthus . and i think the cerinthian heresy not only to have been the occasion of st. john's writing , but that the understanding of it , gives the greatest and truest light to the words of the evangelist , shewing the force and importance of them . p. wherein i pray , did that heresy consist ? pr. i shall not meddle with other parts of it , but only what relates to the present subject ; and that lay in these things . ( . ) that there was a supreme and unknown father , who was before the beginning , and therefore they called him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , who was the fountain of all emanations . iren. l. . c. . . ( . ) that the world was not made by him , but by a power at a distance from him , called demiurgus , iren. l. . c. . and in the egyptian school where cerinthus was educated , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 word , was one of the intermediate emanations between the father , and the demiurgus , iren. l. . c. . ( . ) that this world was in a state of darkness and confusion , as to the supreme father of all ; only some few had some beams of light from him , by which they knew him . ( . ) that jesus was a mere man , born as other men are , of joseph and mary , but of extraordinary goodness , wisdom , and sanctity . ( . ) that the supreme father at his baptism did send down a divine power upon him , in the shape of a dove , which enabled him to declare the unknown father , and to work miracles , which returned to its own 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or fulness above , when jesus suffer'd . this is a short scheme of that heresy , as delivered by the ancient fathers . and now let any one compare st. johns words with it ; and he will find his design was to countermine this heresy by two things . ( . ) that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 word , was eternal . for the cerinthians said , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was not in the beginning , but made a great space of time between the eternal being of the father , and the emanation of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , wherein he was in perfect silence , as irenoeus expresses it ( l. . c. . ) and so in the beginning , doth imply the eternity of the word . but that is not all , for he saith , it was with god , and was god , and was the demiurgus , or the maker of the world , and the revealer of god to mankind , joh. . , , , , , , . and so there was no place for those several emanations between god and the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and demiurgus , as the cerinthians said . ( . ) that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or word , was incarnate , which he affirms , v. . and the word was made flesh , and dwelt among us , &c. and was the only begotten son of the father ; and so he not only cuts off the other emanations , but declares that jesus was far from being a mere man. and to this purpose he brings in the testimony of john baptist , v. . and applies what he had said to the person of jesus christ , v. . now this being st. johns design , his words afford a demonstration to us of the union of the divine and human nature in christ , when he saith , the word was made flesh. p. but doth not the scripture in other places imply that there is a subordination in christ to his father , which is not consistent with such an equality of nature ; see heb. . , . cor. . , . — . , . rev. . . pr. the first place is a proof for the divinity of christ ; for the words are ; but unto the son , he saith , thy throne , o god , is for ever and ever , &c. it is true , in the next verse , it is said with respect to his office , therefore god , even thy god hath anointed thee , &c. but we do not deny that christ was anointed as mediator , and in that respect , god was his god ; but doth this prove that he that is mediator , cannot have a divine nature in conjunction with the human ? the second place , i suppose , is mistaken , cor. . not . and . but verse , but unto us , there is but one god the father , of whom are all things , and we in him ; and one lord jesus christ , by whom are all things , and we by him . and this is one of the strongest holds of the socinians . but two considerations will take off the seeming force of it . ( . ) that the apostle in his disputes with the gentile idolaters , concerning whom he speaks , v. , . doth utterly deny any divinity in the beings they worshipped instead of god , when he saith , an idol is nothing in the world , and that there is none other god but one . he knew very well that they worshipped many , v. . as there be gods many , and lords many among them ; but unto us ( christians ) there is but one god , and one lord : i. e. we have but one supreme god , to whom we give divine worship ; and instead of the multitude of mediators , we have but one mediator ; and so his design is in opposition to their many gods , to assert the unity of the divine nature , ( not so as to exclude a distinction of persons , but thereby to exclude other gods as the proper object of worship ) , and the unity of a mediator , in opposition to their many lords . ( . ) that if this place excludes christ from the unity of nature with god , it doth exclude him from being the object of divine worship ; for it saith , that there is no other god , but one ; therefore no creature can be made god : and to us there is but one god , the father ; therefore the son cannot be god. if therefore the name lord be taken in opposition to god , then christ cannot be god in any sense ; for we must have but one god : but the plain meaning of the apostle was , that by one lord he meant one mediator , by whom alone we have , in this new frame of things by the gospel , access unto god the father . the third place , cor. . , . speaks plainly of christs kingdom , as mediator . the fourth place , rev. . . where christ speaks several times of my god , proves no more than his words on the cross , my god , my god , why hast thou forsaken me : for surely christ might own a particular relation to god , and interest in him , as he was in human nature , without overthrowing the divine nature in him . p. but he owns , that though he is to be our judg , he knows not the time , mark . . which seems inconsistent with the divine nature , which knoweth all things . pr. the son there spoken of , was christ , as endued with a human soul , when he was upon earth ; which could not understand a secret so much out of the reach of mans understanding , without immediate revelation . but it was not necessary by virtue of the union of both natures , that the divine nature should communicate to the human soul of christ all divine mysteries : but as the human body was notwithstanding subject to passions and infirmities incident to it , so the human soul might continue ignorant of the day of judgment in this state ; both to let us know how great that secret is , and that christ had the proper capacity of a human soul , which could not extend to such things without divine revelation . p. there is one argument more , which seems to prove christs divinity , and doth not ; viz. the making of all things visible and invisible , being attributed to him , john . . heb. . . col. . , , , . pr. now i confess this doth more than seem to me to be a very strong argument ; and that for this reason , the apostle saith , the invisible things of him from the creation of the world , are clearly seen , being understood by the things which are made , even his eternal power and godhead , rom. . . was this argument of the apostle good or not ? p. no doubt it was . pr. then the creation of the world is an invincible proof of the true god. p. what follows ? pr. then if the making of all things be attributed to christ , he must be true god ; but this is plain in the new testament , in which the making of all things is as clearly attributed to the son , as it is to the father ; all things saith st. john , were made by him , and without him was not any thing made , that was made , john . . for by him were all things created , saith st. paul , that are in heaven , and that are in earth , visible and invisible , whether they be thrones , or dominions , or principalities , or powers , all things were created by him , and for him , col. . . thou , lord , in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth , and the heavens are the work of thy hands , heb. . . now compare these expressions with those wherein the creation is attributed to the father , the world is said to be made by bim , rom. . . that he hath created all things , rev. . . that of him , and for him , and to him , are all things , rom. . . and let any impartial mind discern the difference . therefore we have as much reason from scripture to believe christ to be god , as we have from the creation of things to believe a god. p. but you do not take notice of the different expressions in scripture , concerning the father and the son ; all things are said to be of the father , and by the son , cor. . . and that the father created all things by jesus christ , eph. . . which proves no more , than that the son was gods instrument in the creation . pr. what do you mean by gods instrument in the creation ? do you think one creature can create another ? how then can the creation prove an infinite power ? if you believe the instrument uncreated , then you must assert him to be true god by nature ; and then we have all we desire . p. but the socinians do not like this answer of the arians , and therefore they interpret these places , of the state of things under the gospel , and not of the creation of the world. pr. they have not one jot mended the matter ; for , ( . ) where the new creation is spoken of , some circumstances are added , which limit the sense to it , as when st. paul saith , we are created in christ jesus unto good works that we shoul walk in them . eph. . . vvho could possibly understand this of the old creation ? and so , if any man be in christ jesus , he is a new creature , cor. . . but in the other places the same expressions are used , which are attributed to the old creation , without limitation from circumstances , or from the context and occasion of them . ( . ) there are some things said to be created by christ jesus , which cannot relate to the new creation ; for by him were all things created , that are in heaven , and that are in earth , visible and invisible , whether they be thrones , or dominions , or principalities or powers . col. . . how are these created by preaching the gospel , when they are uncapable of the proper means of it , which are the doctrine of the remission of sins upon repentance , and the renewing and sanctifiing grace of god ? p. but st. paul doth not mention the heaven and earth , but only intellectual beings , angels , and men , and therefore he speaks of the new creation . pr. a mighty argument indeed ! do not all things comprehend the heaven and earth ? and the particular enumeration of angels by several denominations , shews that he speaks of another creation distinct from that by the gospel preached to the vvorld ; for the apostles were christs instruments in this new creation , which they could not be to the invisible powers above . p. we have now gone through the true and only grounds of the doctrine of the trinity . pr. you are extreamly mistaken . for we have other grounds besides these , although these may be sufficient . p. name one more . pr. i will name several , which you cannot disallow . p. what are they ? pr. the several heads of arguments made use of by cardinal bellarmin , to prove the divinity of christ : who alone is a convincing evidence of the vast disparity between the proofs of this doctrine , and of transubstantiation from scripture . for , . he proves christ's divinity from those places of the old testament , which are expounded in the new ; being in the old testament , spoken of the true god ; and in the new applied to christ. as numb . . , . compared with cor. . . exod. . . with jude . psal. . . with eph. . , . psal. . . & . , . with heb. . , , . isa. . , . with john . . and revel . . . isa. . . with luke . . and rom. . . isa. . . with mat. . . mark . . luke . . john . . — isa. . . with rom. . . — isa. . . with revel . . , . mal. . . with mat. . . . from the places of the old testament , which attribute to christ those things which belong to god ; as power and adoration , psal. . , , . being the first and last , isa. . . , . working miracles , isa. . . being the god of israel , isa. . , . the only god , isa. . , . the lord of hosts , zach. . , , , . jehovah , zach. . . pouring out of the spirit , zach. . . . from the places of the new testament , which attribute divinity to christ. as when he is called , the son of the living god , mat. . . the only begotten son of god , john . . his own son , rom. . . his true son , joh. . . his dear son , col. . . his son above all others , heb. . . the express image of his person , heb. . . making himself equal with god , john . . being one with the father , joh. . . lord and god , john . . god blessed for ever , rom. . . who thought it no robbery to be equal with god , phil. . . one with the father and spirit , john . . the true god , john . . . from the proper names of god , isa. . . john . . acts . . rom. . . revel . . . john . . the name jehov●● , jer. . , . isa. . . the lord , by which the lxx render jehovah , mat. . . joh. . . the most high , psal. . . a name above every name , phil. . . the invisible one , tim. . , & . . the god of glory , act. . . cor. . . psal. . , , . king of kings and lord of lords , tim. . . revel . . . & . . the one lord , cor. . . the true god , john . . the only lord , jud. . the great god and our saviour , titus . . . from the proper attributes of god ; as eternity , prov. . , . mic. , . joh. . , — . . immensity , john . . mat. . . omnipotency , rev. . . — . . — . . wisdom , colos. . . joh. . . majesty and adoration , heb. . . mal. . . invocation , joh. . . acts . . & . . cor. . . cor. . . joh. . . from the proper works of god : as not only creation , ( of which already ) but conservation , heb. . . colos. . . salvation , matth. . . foretelling future events , joh. . . pet. . . rev. . . working miracles by his own power , mark. . . and giving power to others to work them , mat. . . what think you now of the proofs of the trinity in scripture ? do you think bellarmin could produce any thing like this for transubstantiation ? no ; so far from it , that where he sets himself in a whole chapter to prove it from scripture , he produces a first without a second . the first argument , saith he , is taken from christ's words , this is my body . very well ! but where is the second ? for no more could be produced , but this one single passage , about which he spends his whole chapter , and then betakes himself presently to the fathers . p. but one plain and clear place is sufficient , if we be certain of the sense of that one ; for we are as much bound to believe god when we are sure he speaks it once , as an hundred times . pr. we have been all this while comparing these two doctrines as to scripture , and now you see the disproportion so very great , as to number and variety , you say , one is as good as an hundred ; but that one had need to be wonderfully clear , which this is very far from , since many of your own writers do confess transubstantiation cannot be drawn from it ; as bellarmin himself owns , and he affirms it not to be improbable , that no place of scripture is so clear and express for transubstantiation , but learned and acute men may doubt whether it can be drawn from it , setting aside the churches declaration . but neither bellarmin , nor any one who attends to the force of the former proofs of the divinity of christ , can say , that any reasonable man can doubt of it ; and that he must at last resolve all into the church's authority . p. have not learned and acute men doubted of the divinity of christ , as of transubstantiation ? and therefore in that respect they are both alike . pr. we do not insist upon men's bare doubting , but on the reason of their doubting . and when but one single place is produced , which is yeilded not to be sufficient of it self to prove the doctrine ; there is much more cause of doubting , than where such multitudes of places are produced ; and no doubt is made by those who favour transubstantiation , but that they do fully prove the divinity of christ. p. it seems then we must come to reason at last . and for my part , i must tell you , i i think that parallel much the easiest . for , that three distinct persons should be in one individual nature , and that the most pure and simple being , seems to me to be more absurd than transubstantiation . pr. let us set aside the comparing absurdities at present , and only examin in point of reason , the great absurdity of three persons being in one individual divine nature . p. i did hardly believe you would have the courage to defend the doctrine of the trinity in point of reason ; but i see you are a bold man , and will venture farther than wiser men. pr. it may be others have not had the leisure or curiosity to examine a mystery believed to be so much out of the reach of our understanding ; or have confounded themselves and others so much with school-●erms , as to leave the matter rather more obscure than it was before . but i shall endeavour to make things as clear as they will bear . and that which i insist upon is , that the absurdities are not to appearance so great as those of transubstantiation . and therefore i desire you to produce those which appear the most dreadful . p. i shall reduce all to these two , which comprehend the rest . . how there can be three persons and but one god. . how these can agree in a third , and not agree among themselves . for the first , it seems very absurd , that there should be three persons really distinct , whereof every one is god , and yet there should not be three gods ; for nothing is more contradictions than to make three not to be three , or three to be but one . pr. i hope now you will give me leave to make an answer to your difficulty , as distinct as possible . we do not say , that three persons are but one person , or that one nature is three natures ; but that there are three persons in one nature . if therefore one individual nature be communicable to three persons , there is no appearance of absurdity in this doctrine . and on the other side , it will be impossible there should be three gods , where there is one and the same individual nature ; for three gods must have three several divine natures , since it is the divine essence which makes a god. but to make this more plain , do you make any difference between nature and person ? p. yes . pr. wherein lies it ? p. excuse me , sir , for you have undertaken to explain these things . pr. i will begin with person . which name was originally taken among the romans from some remarkable distinction of one from another ; either by some outward appearance , as a vizard or habit , or some particular quality or disposition . and from hence it came to be applied to those inward properties , whereby one intelligent being is distinguished from another ; and from those properties , to the person who had them . thus person is used even by tully himself , at least twenty times in his books of rhetorick : and the old civil law speaks of personal rights and personal actions . so that the criticks , such as valla , and others , had no cause to find fault with boethius , for applying the notion of a person , to an intelligent being subsisting by it self , ( and so the soul is no person in men , but the man consisting of soul and body ) having some incommunicable properties belonging to him . therefore i cannot but wonder at the niceness of some late men , who would have the names of person , and hypostasis , and trinity , to be laid aside ; since themselves confess boëthius his definition of a person to be true enough ; but they say , it belongs to the creatures , and not to god , for it would make three gods. which is to suppose , without proving it , that the divine nature can communicate it self after no other manner than a created nature can . this is now to be more strictly enquired into . and it is very well observed by boëthius , de trin. l. . principium pluralitatis alteritas est : that diversity is the reason of plurality : and therefore in the trinity , so far as they are different , they are three , i. e. in regard of personal properties and relations ; but so far as they agree , they are but o n e , that is , as to the divine nature . it is very true , that according to arithmetick , three cannot be one , nor one three ; but we must distinguish between the bare numeration , and the things numbred . the repetition of three units , certainly makes three distinct numbers ; but it doth not make three persons to be three natures . and therefore as to the things themselves , we must go from the bare numbers to consider their nature . where-ever there is a real distinction , we may multiply the number , tho the subject be but one. as suppose we say the soul hath three faculties , understanding , will and memory ; we may , without the least absurdity say , there are three and one ; and those three not confounded with each other , and yet there is but one soul. p. but the socinians object , that there is a difference between three properties , and three distinct persons ; because a person is an individual being ; and so three persons must be three individual beings ; and therefore as there is but one divine being , there can be but one person . pr. this is the main strength of the cause ; to which i answer , that altho a person be an individual being , yet it implies two things in it ; ( . ) something common with others of the same nature ; as three men have one and the same nature , tho they be three persons . ( . ) something peculiar and incommunicate to any other ; so that john cannot be peter , nor peter , james . p. but what is it which makes one not to be the other , when they have the same common nature ? pr. you ask a hard question , viz. about the principle of individuation ; but if it be so hard to resolve it , as to created beings , there is certainly far less reason for us to be unsatisfied , if it appear difficult to clear the difference of nature and person in an infinite being . yet all mankind are agreed in the thing , viz. that there is a community of the same nature , and a real distinction of persons among men , tho they cannot tell what that is which discriminates the humane nature in john , from the same humane nature in peter and james . and it is observable , that as beings arise in perfection above each other , it is still so much harder to assign that which is called the principle of individuation . in gross and material beings we can discern a number of accidents , or peculiar modes and properties , which distinguish them from each other ; but it is much harder to assign it in spiritual and intellectual beings , whose natures and differences lie not so open to our understandings . if so be then it appears more difficult in an infinite and incomprehensible being , what cause have we to wonder at it ? but we must always make a difference between what we have reason to believe , and what we have a power to conceive . altho we have all the reason in the world to believe that there is a god , i. e. a being infinite in all perfections ; yet we must yield that his essential attributes are above our comprehension . as for instance ; ( . ) we must believe god to be eternal , or we cannot believe him to be god. for , if he once were not , it is impossible he should ever be . and therefore we conclude necessary existence to be an essential attribute of the divine nature . but then , how to conceive that a being should be from it self , is at least as hard , as how one and the same individual nature should be communicated to three distinct persons ; nay , it is somewhat harder , since we see something like this in other beings ; but we can see no manner of resemblance of a thing that hath its being wholly from it self . ( . ) we must allow god to be omnipresent , or else we must suppose him so confined and limited to a certain place , as to be excluded from any other ; and if he can act in all places , he must either be present in them , or his power must be larger than his being , which is infinite ; but after this , we have not a power to conceive how a being should be present in the whole world , and not to be extended ; and if it be extended , how it should be uncapable of being divided into parts ; which is certainly repugnant to the divine nature . i therefore produce these two instances , to let the antitrinitarians see , that what they object in point of reason as to the incomprehensibility of the mystery of the trinity , will in consequence overthrow the divine nature . but as there is the highest reason to believe there is a god , tho we cannot comprehend his perfections ; so there may be great reason to believe the doctrine of the trinity , tho we cannot comprehend the manner of it . p. i had thought you intended to explain the mystery of it , and now you tell us it is incomprehensible . pr. it is a good step to our believing it , to make it plain , that the difficulty of our conception ought not to hinder our faith. and i have made some advance towards the explication of it , by shewing , that since mankind are agreed about the difference between nature and person , the whole difficulty comes to this , that the same common nature in mankind makes three persons ; but that it is the same individual nature in all the persons of the trinity . and now let us consider the infinite perfection and simplicity of the divine nature ; and we shall think it unreasonable that it should be so bounded as to the manner of its communication , as the nature of man is . every individual man hath not only individual properties , but an individual nature , i. e. the common nature of man , limited by some unaccountable principle , that doth make him different from all other men having the same nature with himself . the difficulty then doth not lie in a community of nature , and a distinction of persons , for that is granted among men , but in the unity of nature with the difference of persons . and supposing the divine nature to be infinite in its perfection , i do not see how it is capable of being bounded , as the common nature of man in individuals is ; and if it be not capable of being bounded and limited , it must diffuse it self into all the persons in the same individual manner ; and so this doctrine of the trinity is not repugnant to reason . p. but what say you to the athanasian creed ; is not that repugnant to humane reason ? pr. i think not ; but that it is a just explication of the doctrine of the trinity rightly understood . p. i see now you are upon hard points , you will stick at nothing , and transubstantiation it self will down with you anon . pr. i doubt that ; but at present we are upon the athanasian creed . and i desire but one principle to clear it , which follows from what is said already , viz. that what is affirmed of the divine nature , as such , must be common to all three persons ; but whatever is affirmed of the several persons , as such , must be peculiar to themselves . now this is a clear principle of reason , and hath no appearance of absurdity in it . and from hence the athanasian creed will easily be cleared . for eternity , incomprehensibility , omnipotency , belonging to the divine nature , as such , we ought to say , that they are not three eternals , three incomprehensibles , three almighties , but one eternal , one incomprehensible , one almighty . because the attributes belonging to the persons , by reason of the divine nature , and the attributes being really the same with it , the nature is the proper subject of them ; which being but one , we are not to distinguish them as to essential attributes , but only as to personal relations and properties . p. but if the three persons be coëternal , how is it possible to conceive there should not be three eternals ? pr. this seems the hardest expression in the whole creed ; but it is to be interpreted by the scope and design of it : which is , that the essential attributes are not to be distinguished , though the persons be . and so eternity is not taken as a personal attribute , but as essential ; and so they are not three eternals , but one eternal . and the great design of the creed was , to shew , that the christian church did not believe such a trinity as consisted of three persons , unequal and different in nature , and substance , and duration . p. but what say you to the damning all those who do not believe it , in the beginning and end of it ? pr. this is off from our business . but to let you see i will not avoid the difficulties you offer , i will give an answer even to this . the meaning is not , that every one is damned who doth not conceive aright of the difference of nature and person in the trinity , or of the essential and personal attributes ; but that those who set up in opposition to it the worship of a meer creature as god , or the worship of more gods than one , or who wilfully reject this article of the christian faith , when it is duly proposed to them , are guilty of a damning sin. for even the disbelief of christianity it self , is not supposed to be the cause of mens damnation , but where the doctrine of the gospel hath been proposed in a way of credibility . if when this doctrine of the trinity is proposed to mens minds , they will not consider it , nor weigh the arguments on both sides impartially , but with scorn and contempt reject it , and endeavour to bring reproach upon christianity for the sake of it , and disturb the peace of the church about it ; such cannot be said to receive or believe it faithfully , and by such sins they do run the hazard of perishing everlastingly . p. i see you have a mind to smooth every thing relating to the trinity , i wish you would do the same about transubstantiation . but yet you have not answer'd the other great difficulty in point of reason , viz. that those things which agree or disagree in a third , must agree or disagree one with the other . and therefore if the father be god , the son god , and the holy ghost god ; then the father must be son and holy ghost , and the son and holy ghost must be the father . if not , then they are really the same , and really distinct ; the same as to essence , distinct as to persons ; and so they are the same , and not the same , which is a contradiction . pr. and now i think you have drawn out the most refined spirits of socinianism , to make the doctrine of the trinity and transubstantiation parallel , because you say , it implies a contradiction ; which is the nearest parallel you have yet offered at . but this terrible argument is grounded on the same supposition , viz. that the divine essence is no more capable of communicating it self to three distinct persons , than any created being is . the reason of that axiom being , that created things , by reason of their finite nature , cannot diffuse or communicate themselves to more than one ; and therefore those which agree in a third , must agree together ; but supposing it possible that the same finite nature could extend it self to several individuals , it would be presently answered , the axiom did hold only , where they did adequately and reciprocally agree , and not where they did agree only in essence , but differ'd in the manner of subsistence . for where a different manner of subsistence is supposed possible , in the same individual nature , the agreement in that cannot take away that difference which is consistent with it ; which we attribute to the unlimitedness and perfection of the divine nature . p. but you can bring no other instance but the thing in question ; and therefore this is a petitio principii , or taking that for granted which is in dispute . pr. i do not think it to be so , where the reason is assigned from the peculiar properties of the divine nature , to which there can be no parallel . and i think it very unreasonable in the socinians , to send us to created beings for the rules and measures of our judgment concerning a being acknowledged to be infinite . p. are not the divine persons infinite , as well as the divine nature ? and therefore as created persons do take in the whole nature , so infinite persons will do the infinite nature . pr. no question , but the persons are infinite in regard of the nature which is so ; but if an infinite nature be communicable to more persons than one , every such person cannot appropriate the whole nature to it self . p. if the difference be on the account of infinity , then there must be an infinite number of persons in the divine essence . pr. i answer , that infiniteness of number is no perfection ; and as to the number of persons , we follow not our own conjectures , nor the authority of the church ; but divine revelation , which hath assured us , that there is but one god , and yet there are three that are one . which depends not meerly on the place of st. john , but the form of baptism is remarkable to this purpose , which joyns together the father , the son , and the holy ghost ; without any other distinction besides that of order and relation . and it is against the fundamental design of christianity , to joyn any created beings together with god in so solemn an act of religion . and st. paul joyns them together in his benediction : the grace of our lord jesus christ , and the love of god , and the communion of the holy ghost be with you all . amen . cor. . . from whence the christian church hath always believed a trinity of persons in the unity of the divine nature . p. you have taken a great deal of pains to clear the doctrine of the trinity from any absurdity in point of reason , why should you not do as much now as to transubstantiation ? pr. in plain truth , because i cannot ; for here lies a vast difference between them . in the trinity we consider'd an infinite being , to which no bounds can be set without destroying its nature ; but in transubstantiation , we suppose a true finite body , which hath its natural bounds and limits to one certain place , and yet you will and must suppose this body to be equally present in many thousand distant places at the same time ; which implies so great a repugnancy to the very nature of a body , that i can by no means give my assent to it . p. alas ! is this it which chokes your reason , so that you cannot swallow the doctrine of the church in this matter ? you do not consider , that tho we allow nothing infinite in the body it self ; yet we suppose an infinite power to be imploy'd about it : and an infinite power may produce things above our comprehensions , about bodies in themselves finite . pr. this is the utmost your cause will bear ; but i pray tell me , is there any such thing as a repugnancy in the nature of things or not ? i. e. are there not some things which are endued with such properties , that if you alter them , you destroy their very nature ; as , to suppose an indivisible line , a triangle without lines , a body without dimensions ? p. hold a little ; a body must have dimensions belonging to it , but it is not necessary it should have those dimensions where-ever it is present . for it may be present in one place as a body , and in another after the manner of a spirit . pr. you might as well have said , a body may be consider'd two ways ; as it is a body , and as it is not a body : for there can be no body , where there are no dimensions proper to it . p. see how you are mistaken ; for it is 〈…〉 the dimensions which seem to hinder a body being in 〈◊〉 places at once , but its unity ; as bellarmin well observe● . pr. i say both of them 〈◊〉 . for 〈◊〉 body can no more be without it● dimensions , than a line without divisibility . p. i grant , that naturally it cannot , but by divine power it may . pr. will you make the power of god to change the essential properties of things , while the things themselves remain in their true nature ? you may as well say , that naturally man is a reasonable creature ; but by divine power he may be a true man , and yet want the faculty of reasoning : that naturally two and two make four , but god can make two and two to be joyned together in a supernatural manner , so as that four shall not result from them ; that tho , naturally speaking , white-washing a wall makes it look white , yet by an extraordinary power , there may be the presence of all things which make a wall white , yet it shall not do so ; just so it is to make a body present , and yet to have no dimensions of a body . is there any real difference between the nature of a body and spirit ? wherein lies it ? is it not as repugnant for a body to be after the manner of a spirit , as for a body and spirit to be the same ? p. all this proceeds upon not considering the difference between the essential extension of a body , and that which is quantitative , and hath relation to place . pr. the essential extension of a body without quantity , is non-sense , and a contradiction . for it is to make a body extended and not extended , at the same time . i pray tell me what you mean by a body , as it is opposed to a spirit ? p. i mean as all mankind do , such a substance which consists of parts extended and divisible . pr. then being extended and divisible , are the natural and essential properties of a body . and therefore , to suppose a body not to be extended and divisible , is to suppose it not to be a body , which is a plain contradiction . p. you are to distinguish between the intrinsecal quantity , which is an inseparable property of a body , and the extrinsecal relation it hath to a place . pr. intrinsecal quantity without relation to place , is intrinsecal non-sense . for , how is it possible for extended parts to have no relation to place ? p. by relation to place , i mean , when the parts of a body answer to the parts of a place : but by intrinsecal quantity , i mean , that there is the real order and proportion of parts in the body it self , but it doth not fill up the place . pr. then you do suppose the body of christ in the eucharist , to have all the distinct parts of a body , with their due order and proportion , but to be in the sacrament after an indivisible manner . p. why not ? pr. do you think it possible for the real and entire body of a man to be crouded into the compass of a wafer , with all the difference of its parts , so that no true part of the body be missing ? p. yes , by divine power . pr. do you think a far less thing possible than that , viz. that a man's head , and shoulders , and arms , should be contained entire and distinct under the nail of his little finger ? p. why not ? pr. then why may not the greatest body be within the least ? why may not an elephant be caught in a mouse-trap , and a rhinoceros be put into a snuff-box ? for either there is a repugnancy in the nature of the thing , for a greater body to be within a less , or there is not ; if not , then these mentioned instances are possible ; if there be , then the supposition of divine power can give no relief , unless you suppose , that god can do things repugnant in themselves , i. e. that he can do things which cannot be done . but i pray tell me , if the very body of christ be by transubstantiation in the wafer , with all its parts in their due order , then the head must be distant from the feet , and all other organs in their proper places ; but this cannot possibly be supposed , where there is no measure of distance as place is , and the whole body is in a point . p. i say again , there is the just order of parts considered in themselves , but not with respect to place . pr. then it is impossible there should be any distance ; without which it is impossible there should be the order of parts in a human body . thus , there is a repugnancy in the very supposition of christ's body being in the wafer , tho there were but one single wafer ; but when to this we add , that it is equally thus present in thousands of wafers at what distance of place soever , the absurdities do increase and multiply so fast upon us , that it is hardly possible to imagin any thing concerning a body , which doth imply more than this doth . as that one and the same body should be indivisibly present in many places , where it must be divided from it self , by so many bodies interposing : so that it is impossible to apprehend how two bodies can be divided from one another more effectually , than such a body must be from it self , if it be present in many places at once . p. i pray stop here ; for reckon up as many absurdities as you will , they are all but the effects of carnal reason , and we must captivate our understanding to the obedience of faith. pr. then it is to no purpose to argue any farther , on the point of reason ; and i thought you designed this for one part of your parallel . p. so i did ; and i still say , there are things as hard to make out about the trinity , which you have not yet taken notice of . pr. i pray let us hear them , that we may put an end to this discourse . p. what say you then to one and the same nature being in three distinct persons , which bellarmin saith , is more wonderful , than that one body should be in many places ; because the nature is identified with the persons , but the body is not so with the places in which it is present . if therefore the same nature be not divided from it self in the persons of the trinity , how much more easily may one body be present in several places , and not be divided from it self ? pr. it is strange neither bellarmin nor you should discern the difference . for the reason why a body must be divided from it self , being in several places , is , because it is finite ; and there being no penetration of dimensions in bodies , the interposing of other bodies must needs divide the same body in distant places ; but the reason why the same divine nature may be in several persons , is , because it is infinite ; and therefore nothing can bound or discontinue it . p. you have talked much of contradictions ; is there any greater about transubstantiation , than that of eternal generation of the son in the mystery of the trinity ? for , if it be not proper generation , then you cannot infer from it , that the son is of the same substance with the father ; if it be , then it must be a proceeding from not being to being , and so an eternal generation is a contradiction . pr. it is a rule in common reason , that all attributes must be understood according to the nature of the subjects . and therefore , if the subject here spoken of , be of such a nature , as to be uncapable of proceeding from not being to being , then whatever is affirmed of it , must be so understood , as not to destroy its nature . the term of generation alone is not , it may be , sufficient to prove the son co-essential with the father , because it might have been used improperly and metaphorically . but when from the scripture , it otherwise appears that the son of god being the word , was in the beginning with god , and was god , john . . and we soon after find him called the only begotten of the father , ver. . and the only begotten son , ver. . we have reason to infer from hence his eternal generation . which must not be understood in such a mean sense as is agreeable to creatures , but as it is consistent with the essential attributes of god , of which necessary existence is one . so that by eternal generation , no more can be meant , than such an emanation of the son from the father , as doth suppose them to have the same nature and co-existence : which is best represented by the rays of the sun coming from the fountain of light , if they were permanent , and not successive . p. what say you then to the mystery of the incarnation ? is it not more wonderful , as bellarmin observes , that there should be one hypostasis in two natures , than one body in two places ? since the union is greater between the hypostasis and the natures , than between the body and the places it is in ; the one being intrinsecal and substantial , the other extrinsecal and accidental . and that hypostasis is the same with the divine nature , and yet is most closely united with the human nature , which is so different from the divine ; so that it is incomprehensible by us , how in that union the natures are not confounded , or the hypostasis divided . pr. suppose now we grant all this , that there is an incomprehensible mystery in the incarnation , what follows from thence ? have i not hitherto owned , that there must be something incomprehensible by us , in what relates to the divine nature ? and it is the less wonder it is so in the incarnation , wherein an union is implied between an infinite and finite nature ; when the union of the soul and body , though both finite , is above our comprehension , though we our selves consist of souls and bodies so united ? but what consequence is it , if we are not able to explain this , that then we must admit that the same body may be not meerly in two , but in ten thousand places at the the same time ? i. e. if we cannot explain the hypostatical union , then all manner of absurdities must go down with us , that relate to things of a very different nature from it . p. i am glad to find you are set at last , and that now you have a difficulty before you which you can never get through . pr. be not too confident ; i have only hitherto denied the consequence as to the difficulties of transubstantiation . but it is possible , that setting aside the confusion of school-terms , i may be able to give a far more intelligible and reasonable account of the incarnation it self , than you can ever do of transubstantiation . p. first shew that it is possible , and then explain the manner of it . pr. but let us in the first place agree what we mean by it . p. by the incarnation , i mean , the union of the divine and humane nature , so as to make one person in christ. pr. if this be not possible , it must either be , . because two natures different from each other , cannot be united to make one person : the contrary whereof appears in the union of soul and body to the person of a man. or , . because it is impossible that an infinite nature should be united to a finite . p. how can there be an union possible , between two beings infinitely distant from each other ? pr. not in that respect wherein the distance is infinite ; but if there be nothing destructive to either nature in such an union , and the infinite nature do condescend to it , why may it not be so united to an intelligent finite being , as to make one person together with it ? for in respect of union , the distance is not so great between finite and infinite , as between body and spirit . p. the distance is infinite in one case , but not in the other . pr. i do not speak of them , with respect to perfections , but to union ; and an infinite distance in that must imply an absolute repugnancy , which you can never prove : for , since body and spirit may be united to make one person , an infinite spirit may be united to a finite nature . p. but the manner of the hypostatical union is impossible to be conceived . pr. let the thing be granted possible , and the difficulty of conceiving the manner may be as great in the union of soul and body . will you undertake to explain that to me ? and yet i hope you believe it . but , let us hear your difficulties again , which you object from bellarmine . p. that there should be but one hypostasis in two natures ; and that in the union the natures should not be confounded , nor the hypostasis divided . pr. all these difficulties arise from the sense of the word hypostasis . which originally signifies a real being , and not such which depends only on fancy and imagination ; from thence its signification was enlarged , not only to things real , ( in opposition to meer appearances , and creatures of the mind ) but to such a thing which did subsist of it self , and had not its subsistence in another , as accidents had . so that an hypostasis was a real substance which had subsistence in it self . but such are of two kinds , as the greek fathers observe . ( . ) such as are real substances in themselves , but yet are capable of being joined with another , to make up a person ; thus the soul and body have two different hypostases , and make up but one person of a man. ( . ) it is taken , for a compleat individual subsistence , which is not joined with any other as a part ; and so hypostasis is the same with a person , which is nothing else but a compleat , intelligent , individual hypostasis . and in this sense there can be but one hypostasis in christ , i. e. one person , tho there be two natures . p. but our divines say , that the humane nature after the union hath no hypostasis , it being swallowed up by the divine . pr. i know they do ; but if they mean that the humane nature , after the union , loses that subsistence which is proper to the humane nature , it is impossible for them to avoid the eutychian heresy , condemned by the council of chalcedon ; but if they mean no more than that there is a true nature , but no person , save only that which results from both natures ; they then agree with the sense of the church , which condemned the eutychians . for as much as the heresies of nestorius and eutyches differ'd in themselves , they were both built on the same ground , viz. that there could be no true nature , but there must be a person ; and that two natures could not make one person . from whence nestorius asserted there were two persons in christ ; and eutyches denied that there were two natures . p. what doth all this signify , but that the authority of the church must determine whether there be two natures , or two persons in christ ? pr. it seems then , the whole business wherein the general councils were so warmly concerned , was only to make an ecclesiastical dictionary , and to appoint what words are to be used , and what not . do you think then , there were no such real heresies as nestorianism and eutychianism , but only they happened to take the words nature and person in another sense than the church would have men use them ? p. i trust the church for all these things . pr. then if the church would have you affirm two persons and one nature , or two natures and one person , it were all one to you . p. why not ? since the church must determine . pr. what if you had been to dispute with nestorius and eutyches ? p. i would have told them , they must submit to the church about the use of words . pr. and they would have laughed at you for your pains : for the controversy was really about the truth of christ's incarnation , ( as the fathers proved , and the councils determined ) which in consequence was rejected by both of them ; as i will evidently prove , if you have any longer patience . p. i beg your pardon , sir , i have heard enough of all conscience already . pr. i think so too , to make you ashamed of your parallel between the doctrine of the trinity , and transubstantiation . and methinks , for the sake of our common christianity , you should no more venture upon such bold and unreasonable comparisons . do you in earnest think , it is all one , whether men do believe a god , or providence , or heaven , or hell , or the trinity and incarnation of christ , if they do not believe transubstantiation ? we have heard much of late about old and new popery ; but if this be the way of representing new popery , by exposing the common articles of faith ; it will set the minds of all good christians farther from it than ever . for upon the very same grounds , we may expect another parallel between the belief of a god and transubstantiation ; the effect of which will be , the exposing of all religion . this is a very destructive and mischievous method of proceeding ; but our comfort is , that it is very unreasonable ; as i hope , hath fully appeared by this discourse . finis . errata omitted in the former dialogue . page . line , dele not . . l. , dele not . . marg. l. . read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . in this dialogue . page . line . read viz. the sacrament . . l. . for done , r. due . . l. . for fictitious , r. factitious . . l. . r. doubted as well . books printed for william rogers . the doctrines and practices of the church of rome truly represented ; in answer to a book intituled , a papist mis-represented and represented , &c. quarto . an answer to a discourse intituled , papists protesting against protestant popery ; being a vindication of papists not misrepresented by protestants : and containing a particular examination of monsieur de meaux , late bishop of condom , his exposition of the doctrine of the church of rome , in the articles of invocation of saints , and the worship of images , occasioned by that discourse . quarto . an answer to the amicable accommodation of the difference between the representer and answerer . quarto . a view of the whole controversy between the representer and the answerer , with an answer to the representer's last reply ; in which are laid open some of the methods by which protestants are misrepresented by papists . quarto . a discourse against transubstantiation , in octavo . price d. sermons and discourses , some of which never before printed ; the third volume . by the reverend dr. tillotson dean of canterbury . . a manuel for a christian soldier . written by erasmus , and translated into english. twelves . the doctrine of the trinity and transubstantiation , compared as to scripture , reason , and tradition . in a new dialogue between a protestant and a papist . the first part. wherein an answer is given to the late proofs of the antiquity of transubstantiation , in the books called consensus veterum , & nubes testium , &c. quarto . the doctrine of the trinity and transubstantiation compared , as to scripture , reason , and tradition . in a new dialogue between a protestant and a papist . the second part. wherein the doctrine of the trinity is shewed to be agreeable to scripture and reason , and transubstantiation repugnant to both . quarto . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e sicut enim antequam sanctificatur panis , panem nominamus , divinâ autem illum sanctificante grati● , mediante sacerdote , liberatus est quidem ab appellatione panis , dignus autem habitus est dominici corporis appellatione , etiamsi natura panis in ipso permansit , & non duo corpora , sed unum corpus filii praedicatur , sic & hic divina 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in graec. exemplar . ep bigot . ) id est inundante corporis natura unum filium , unam personam utraque haec fecerunt . papist misrepresented , and represented , part. ch . . p. . concil . chalced . act. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . dial. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . dial. . certè sacramenta quae sumimus corporis & sanguinis domini divina res est , propter quod & per eadem divinae efficimur consortes naturae , & tamen esse non desinit substantia vel natura panis & vini . gelas. in biblioth . patr. to. . pag. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ephraem . antioch . ap . phot. cod. . tom. . . . c. , , , , , . ap. facund . . . c. . ap. canis . antiq . lection . to. . p. , , . epiph. haer . . vincent . common . aug. de haeres . c. . concil . chal. . ced . act. . theodor. dial. . & . nam quando in terra fuit , non erat ubique in coelo . et nunc quia in coelo est , non est ubique in terra , & in tantum non est , ut secundum ipsam ( carnem ) christum spectemus esse venturum de coelo● quem secundum verbum nobiscum esse credimus in terra . cont. eutych . l. . n. . et ubique totum praesentem esse non dubites tanquam deum — & in loco aliquo coeli propter veri corporis modum . ad dardan . non enim corpora sunt quorum amplior sit in tribus quam in singulis magnitudo , nec loca suis molibus tenent , ut distantibus spatiis simul esse non possint . ad dardan . secundum praesentiam verò coporalem simul & in sole & in luna & in cruce esse non posset . c. faust. l. . c. . et cum in terra loquitur in coelo utique nisi per dei infinitatem esse non possit . de incarn . l. . c. . sive ista crassiora , sivesubtiliora , sed tamen corpora , quorum nullum potest esse ubique totum , quoniam per innumerabiles partes aliud alibi habeat necesse est . et quantumcunque sit corpus , seu quantulumcunque corpusculum , loci occupet spatium , eundemque locum sic impleat , ut in nullâ ejus parte sit totum . ad volusian , quanquam si hoc demas corporibus , quantum mea opinio est , neque sentiri possunt , neque omnino corpora esse rectè existimarem . de quant . animae , c. . quod per loci spatium aliqua longitudine , latitudine , altitudine ita sistitur vel movetur , ut majore sui parte majorem locum occupet , & breviore breviorem , minusque sit in parte quam in toto . ad hieron . ep. . non omnino potest esse aliquod corpus , sive coeleste , sive terrestre , sive aereum , sive humidum , quod non minus sit in parte quam in toto , neque ullo modo possit in loco hujus partis simul habere aliam partem , sed aliud hic , aliud alibi habens per quaelibet spatia locorum distantia & dividua , vel potius ut ita dicam , sectili more distenditur . c. epist. manich. c. . omne corpus locale est , & omne locale corpus est . . quaest. c. . corpus quodlibet per localia spatia porrectum est . . quaest. c. . orat. . & in ep ad cledon . dial. . de trin. claud. mamert . de statu animae , l. . c. , , . l. . c. . apud euseb. de praep. evangel . l. . c. . basil. epist. . isidor . epist. l. . ep. . greg. nyssen . in hexaem . p. de hom. opificio . c. . aug. ep. ad dardanum . cont . julian . l. . c. . isid. origin . l. . c. . boeth . de praedic . damascen dial. c. . alcuin . dial. c. , . iren. l. . c. . apud . phot. cod. . aug. de immort . anim. c. . soliloq . l. . c. . de statu animo . l. . c. . iren. l. . . . . tertul. decarne christi , c. . advers . marc. l. . c. . l . c. , . epiphan . haer . , . hilar. in psal. . aug. c. faust. l. . c. . l. . c. . . quaest. c. . serm. . de euch. l. . c. . cyril . mystag . , & , . catech. . chrysost. in matt. hom . ambros. de his qui initiantur , c. . consensus veterum , p. , , . consens . vet. p. . nouvelle biblioth . des antienes ecclesiastiques par ellies du pin. . p. . p. . consens . p. . consens . veter p. . nubes testium , p. . tertull. c. marcion . l. , c. . apol. . p. . iren. l. . c. . iren. l. . c. . con. marcion . l. . c. . con. marcion . l. . c. . l. . c. . de resur . c. . strom. . hom. . in divers . loc . comment . in matth. . cypr. de lapsis . epist. . n. . nubes testium . p. . &c. consens . vet. p. , &c. disp. . sect. de euch. l. . c. . hom. . in mat. hom. . in mat. in heb. hom. . in rom. hom. . ad pop. antioch . hom. . de sacerd. l. . in joh. hom. . hom. in gal. c. . hom. de resur . to. . hom. . in joh. hom. . in . ep. ad corinth . hom. . in . ad corinth . hom. . in hebr. hom. de poenit . to. . p. . eucholog . p. . greg. nyssen . orat. catech. . nubes testium , p. . tertul de resur . carn . c. . orig. hom . . in levit. ambros. de his qui initiantur , c. . c. . de sacram. l. . c. . notes for div a -e rom. . , , . cor. . , . joh. . . bell. de christo . l. . c. , &c. bell. de euch. l. . c . cap. . a discourse concerning the nature and grounds of the certainty of faith in answer to j.s., his catholick letters / by edw. stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a discourse concerning the nature and grounds of the certainty of faith in answer to j.s., his catholick letters / by edw. stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for henry mortlock ..., london : . a reply to john sergeant's letter, , and others of his works. half-title: dr. stillingfleet's answer to j.s.'s catholick letters. another copy bound with stillingfleet's a letter to mr. g., . errata: p. [ ]. advertisements: p. [ ] at end. reproduction of original in union theological seminary library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng sergeant, john, - . -- second catholick letter. faith -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion dr. stillingfleet's answer to j. s's catholick letters . imprimatur , liber cui titulus , a discourse concerning the nature and grounds of the cerrainty of faith , &c. jan. . . h. maurice , rmo in christo , p. d. wilhelmo archiep. cantuariensi , a sacris . a discourse concerning the nature and grounds of the certainty of faith , in answer to j. s. his catholick letters . by edw. stillingfleet , d. d. dean of st. pauls . london : printed for henry mortlock , at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , mdclxxxviii . the contents the title of catholick letters examin'd page how j. s. comes to be concerned in this debate his doctrine denied to be catholick by the sorbon doctors and others his self-contradiction about it in seven particulars the state of the present controversie about the certainty of faith how it is altered by j. s. of the certainty of particular points of faith the grounds of the certainty of faith laid down by the general consent of the school-divines j. s's main argument against our certainty of faith answer'd and retorted an evident proof of the certainty of faith without infallibility the notion of a rule of faith explained the sense of tradition may be mistaken as well as scripture the instances of it defended the second argument , about fallible certainty , answer'd . the third , about our rule of faith , being common to all heresies , answer'd the fourth , about making our private judgment our rule , answer'd the fifth , about judgment of discretion consider'd and answer'd how far the scripture is a rule to our people what certainty they have as to things necessary to salvation what judgment of discretion allowed by him that it doth not serve only to find an infallible authority proved at large his severe conclusion of his third letter answer'd the answer to the argument summ'd up the sixth argument about the apostles not using a written rule in their preaching , answer'd the seventh , about points necessary to salvation , answer'd the similitude of the purse defended scripture owned to be a rule of faith ( though not complete ) by the divines of the church of rome and that all points simply necessary are therein contained j. s. his concession that all points are not necessary to all persons some mens vncertainty overthrows not the certainty of others the eighth argument about the certainty of the letter of scripture j. s. overthrows it , by allowing it to be corrected by the sense of the faithful the grounds of our certainty laid down of human and divine faith the last argument , about the number of canonical books , answer'd no books of the new testament lost how the canon was entire in the first ages of the vniversal consent of all christian churches the demonstration for oral tradition laid down the instance of the greek church not answer'd the argument it self consider'd a clear and distinct answer given to it , and its notorious fallacy laid open how errors might come into the church the late instance of molinos produced , many other causes of errors besides forgetfulness and malice set down ibid. the charge of pelagianism defended against j. s. of the council of trents proceeding on tradition the proof that it did not , referr'd to another discourse errata . page . line . for as mr. g. read as mr. s. p. . marg. for . . times , r. q. for . . r. , . q. ibid. marg. l. . for the d. . r. a. . p. . l. . r. and how far , and. p. . l. . blot out not before really , l. . add not after are . a discourse concerning the nature & grounds of the certainty of faith , &c. when i published my two letters to mr. g. i had good reason to expect an answer from him , who began the controversie . but it seems he had better reason to forbear ( and it is not hard to guess at it ) and i am turned over to one , who pretends to write catholick letters against me . i have a great and just reverence for some catholick epistles , and believe them written by an infallible spirit ; but for these catholick letters , though their whole design be infallibility , yet i cannot find so much as a fair probability in them . but why must these be call'd catholick letters ? are they written by some catholick bishop , to give an account of his faith , according to the custom of the antient church ? is it , that the doctrine contained in them is undoubtedly catholick ? so far from it , that i shall make it appear , that no one church of the christian world ever own'd it . but , suppose , it had been the doctrine of the roman church , how could this make them catholick letters , unless so great a logician had first proved , that a part may assume the denomination of the whole ? but then , why not , roman catholick letters according to the new style ? there was a reason for this . j. s. hath not forgotten , how hardly he had lately escaped censure at rome , for the principles contained in them ; and therefore though he hopes they may pass for catholick here , yet he durst not joyn roman to catholick in the title of his letters . but how comes j. s. to be concerned in this controversie with mr. g. ? the account he gives of it in the beginning of his first letter is very pleasant . he saith , he accepted a commission from mr. g. to hold his cards , while he is not in circumstances to play out his game himself . i will not examine mr. g's . circumstances , nor the game he plays at ; but methinks , this is no very decent way of expressing the undertaking a debate about matters of faith and salvation . but in truth , he makes the business of infallibility , as he handles it , to be a matter of sport and diversion ; notwithstanding all his grimaces and tragical expressions about it . it is hard to be severe upon a metaphor ; but , suppose it be allowed ; yet i wonder , of all men , he should pitch upon j. s. to hold his cards for him , who had plaid his own so ill , and so much to the dissatisfaction of the leading men of his own church . yet he now appears as brisk and confident , as if he were some new gamester ; although he produces his old sullied cards , ( a little wiped ) over again ; and seems to have forgotten the answer to his sure footing , and the accompt he still owes to the world for it . i know not , how far it agrees with the laws of ecclesiastical chivalry , for one , who hath not defended himself , to appear a champion for another , especially in the same cause ; but there is no great reason to apprehend he should do much for another , who hath done next to nothing for himself . the main subject of the debate is , about the nature and grounds of the certainty of faith ; and the method i think most natural and effectual to proceed in , is , i. to shew how unfit j. s. of all men , is to undertake this cause . ii. to settle the true state of the controversie between us . iii. to examine the reasons he produces against our grounds of certainty . iv. to lay open the weakness of his arguments , on behalf of the infallibility of oral and practical tradition . i. as to j. s. his appearing in this cause again , we are to consider , that in his catholick letters , he frequently owns faith vindicated , reason against raillery , and errour nonplust ; and even sure footing it self . but i shall now shew , that he disowned the main principles in those books , when he was in great danger of being censured at rome for them ; and therefore is not to be allow'd to produce them again . the account of this matter will give great light into the state of the present controversie , and is therefore necessary to be premised to it . out of those books of j. s. a considerable person in the church of rome , selected three propositions about the grounds of his infallible certainty , which were these ; i. that he who is obliged to profess faith propositions true , must see the connexion between their terms , and consequently , that they cannot be unconnected , or false . ii. if the two terms be not seen to be connected , these propositions may , nay ought to be denyed by the respondent , whose office and right it is to grant nothing but what is evident , lest he ensnare himself . iii. 't is requisite and necessary , that the assent of faith in divers particular believers be formally infallible , or that those persons be infallibly certain by evident reasons , that the authority or rule of faith they rely on , cannot herein deceive them . else great wits , and acute reflecters , whose piercing vnderstandings require convictive grounds for their faith , would remain for ever unsatisfied : nor would the wisest christians sincerely and heartily assent to , nor with honesty profess the truth of their faith , nor could any prove it true , or establish rational doubters in it , or convert men of exact knowledge to it , or convince hereticks , calling the truth of it in question . nor could governors and leading persons with any conscience or credit propose and preach the truth of faith to the generality . these propositions were tender'd to two doctors of the sorbon , who declared , the first could not be explained in a catholick sense ; and therefore very unfit for catholick letters . for if ( say they ) a person sees the connexion between the terms , it would be science , and not faith ; it is enough to see them not to be contradictory , or that the connexion is not repugnant to reason . divine faith is above , not contrary to reason . as to the second , they agreed , that neither could that be explained in a catholick sense , because it is destructive of faith , and a proposition ought not , cannot be denied , although the respondent hath not evidence of the terms of which it consists ; when he otherwise knows the church ( which faith [ not demonstration ] teaches to be infallible in matters of faith ) to propose as a truth revealed by god. to the third , they say , that it cannot be explained in a catholick sense : because it is sufficient that the church be believed by faith to be infallible , and it is not requisite that the infallibility of the church be proved by evident reason . see here the main design of his catholick letters declared to be no catholick doctrine ; which is to prove that there must be infallible certainty by conclusive evidence of the churches infallibility . and if this be not catholick doctrine , i am infallibly certain his letters are far from being catholick in their sense . one of these doctors writes to the a. b. of d. that the natural sense of the propositions could not be catholick ; and that all bishops were bound to suppress this doctrine , lest it did mischief to the flock of christ. and that the a. b. of paris would revoke his licence , if the author did not retract them , as he hoped he would . what ? retract the substance of his catholick letters ! is this possible ? and yet again publish the same doctrine as catholick ! this is indeed very surprising . but so it was . for the a. b. of d. averrs , that j. s. confessed the propositions to be heretical , yea very heretical ; but he said , they were not taken in his sense ; which the other said , was a ridiculous plea. he granted , that j. s. might contradict himself , but there was no colour for saying the propositions were not taken in their true sense . and mr. s. being requir'd by the a. b. of paris to anathematize these propositions , and to subscribe to the censure that they could not be explained in a catholick sense ; he did it . and yet the sense of them is maintained by him in his catholick letters . is not such a man fit to hold the cards for mr. g. ? who makes the same doctrine to be heretical and catholick , as his circumstances require . and in his own language , he goes backwards and forwards , blows and sups , declares for and against the same principles . this doctrine of j. s. was complained of at rome , and a congregation of cardinals was appointed to examine it , and they sent their instructions about it to the popes nuncio at paris , where j. s. then was . and therein they took notice , that in his vindication sent to them , he detested that doctrine as heretical , viz. that the evidence of the connexion of predicate and subject , and the evidence of the rule of faith by which the believer may be infallibly certain he cannot be deceived , is necessary in order to faith. i desire the reader to mark this declaration which j. s. sent to rome , and to compare it with the doctrine of his catholick letters : but of that hereafter . but it is worth our while to shew with what a double face i. s. appeared in his vindication and complaint , sent to rome , and in his books which he published here . and by that , the reader may judge of the catholick sincerity of the writer of these letters . i. about the faith he designs to demonstrate . faith vindicated , preface . i declare then , that my chief end in this treatise , is to settle christian faith , or to demonstrate , that it must be truly or absolutely certain , and that my applying it now and then to my opposers , is only a secondary intention , and meerly occasional . querimonia advers . lominum . p. . he saith , he speaks not of faith in itself , but as it is controverted among us . the same he affirms p. , . that he meddles not with faith , but with respect to his adversaries ; or as it is disputed between catholicks and those he calls hereticks , p. . if it were his design to settle christian faith , and to make it truely and absolutely certain , and only secondarily applying it to his opposers ; how is it possible that at the same time , he should not meddle with faith in itself , but meerly with respect to his opposers ? is not this a brave undertaker , to make faith infallibly certain , who so evidently contradicts himself as to his own design ? but it seems , to us he must pretend to make faith certain in itself ; but at rome , he meant no more by it , but only to perplex and confound us . as though his demonstrations were only intended for a sort of metaphysical traps to catch hereticks with . but we are glad to see by his own confession , that faith in itself is not made absolutely certain by them . ii. about the objects of faith , and the evidence of them . reason against raillery , pag. . the strangest and wisest souls are unapt to assent but upon evidence : hence , unless such men see proofs absolutely concluding those points true , they are unapt to be drawn to yield to them , and embrace them as certain truths — nothing can rationally subdue the faculty of suspending , in such men at least , but true evidence had from the object working this clear sight in them , either by itself , or by effects or causes necessarily connected with it . other evidences i know none . faith vindicated , p. , . the truth of propositions of faith consists in the connexion of those notions which make the subject and predicate . whoever therefore sees not the connexion between those notions in the principle of faith , sees not the truth of any of those propositions — it follows , that he who is obliged to profess faith-propositions true , must see the connexion between those terms . in his declaration sent to rome , p. , . he not only expressed his assent to these propositions , but that the contrary to them were false , destructive of faith , and heretical , viz. i. that the objects of faith are not to be evident or demonstrable by natural reasons in order to believing them . ii. that in order to the believing such objects of faith , conveyed down to us , either by scripture or tradition , it is not necessary to know evidently the connexion of predicate and subject , but it is sufficient if they be proposed by the catholick church . now let any man try how he can reconcile these things ; ( ) nothing can subdue rationally the faculty of suspending but true evidence had from the object ; and yet it is destructive to faith , and heretical to say ; that the objects of faith are demonstrable by natural reasons , in order to believing them . is not true evidence from the object a natural reason in order to believing ? ( ) he that sees not the connexion between predicate and subject , sees not the truth of faith-propositions ; and he who is obliged to profess them , must see it ; and yet , in order to believing objects of faith , it is not necessary to see it , nay it is heretical to assert it . iii. about infallible assent . reason against raillery , p. . 't is most evident therefore and demonstrable , that there is no certainty , but where there is infallibility ; and that we can never be said to be truly certain of any thing , till , all circumstances consider'd , we see ourselves out of possibility of being deceived hic & nunc in that very thing . in his declaration , p. , . he owns this proposition to be true , and the contrary to be heretical , viz. that it is not necessary , in order to believing the objects of faith , that he that believes , should know evidently his assent to be supernatural and infallible . but if there can be no certainty of faith , till we see ourselves out of possibility of being deceived , i should think it very hard to say it was heretical to assert it was necessary for him that believes to know his assent to be infallible . for what difference is there between knowing we cannot be deceived in our assent , and that it is infallible ? but here he will hope to escape , by joyning supernatural to infallible ; and so he over-reached the cardinals by putting those together ; for his is nothing but a pure natural infallibility . iv. about the mediums of faith used by him . sure footing , p. . he rejects extrinsecal mediums as insufficient , and requires intrinsecal . faith vindicated , preface , at the end . he owns his discourses to be built on intrinsecal mediums . errour nonplust , p. . he requires clear evidence from the object , to ground a firm assent . page . , . he makes it necessary to true certainty , that it be taken from the thing or object . and true certainty ( he saith ) is built on the things being as it is , and nothing can ever be truly known to be otherwise than it is . in his subscription to the instructions from rome , p. . he denies that he spake of intrinsecal requisites to faith ; but only of extrinsecal . and this he goes about to prove against his own plain words , in his declaration , sect. . pag. , &c. how can intrinsecal mediums , and evidence from the object , be only extrinsecal pre-requisites ? v. about human and divine faith. faith vindicated , p. . divine faith ought to have a far greater degree of firmness in it , than any human faith whatsoever : wherefore since human faith can rise to that degree of stability — divine faith being supernatural , ought to be more firmly grounded ; and consequently more highly impossible to be false . errour nonplust , p. . he speaks expresly of divine faith. in his vindication , p. . he saith , it is evident that he spake of faith , formally as human , and not as formally divine . what evidence can there be like a man's plain words ? is not that divine faith which he goes about to demonstrate the infallible certainty of ? it seems we are all this while to seek for the certainty of faith formally divine ; and all this mighty noise about the necessity of infallibility , reaches no farther than a faith formally human. and yet j. s. affirms that he undertook to prove the impossibility of falshood in divine and supernatural faith. and so it seems divine and supernatural faith must derive its infallible certainty from a meer natural infallibility . or if it be but human faith he means , then he falls short of what he promised , which was to shew the infallible certainty of divine faith. and thus the trap-maker is catch'd himself . vi. about particular points of faith. errour nonplust , p. . i thought he had meant certainty of the points of his faith. what we are then in reason to expect from dr. st. is , that he would bring us grounds for the certainty of his faith , as to determinate points , viz. christ's godhead , a trinity , &c. reason against raillery , p. . seeing then christians are bound to profess their faith true , as to those points of a trinity , for example , or incarnation , &c. it follows , that it must be affirm'd and held that a trinity or incarnation absolutely is , and consequently , that it is impossible not to be . declaration , p. . he peremptorily asserts ( and challenges his adversaries to shew the contrary ) that he produced not one argument to prove any points of doctrine to be divine , or supernatural ; but only , that such a doctrine was delivered by christ or his apostles . and this he frequently insists upon , and is the main of his defence . but why then doth he urge us to produce our grounds of certainty as to particular points , if himself doth not ? if he pretends no more than to prove them in general , why may not we be allowed to do the same ? he that calls upon others to do it , in such an insulting manner , is presumed to do it himself , and if he doth not , he only banters and abuses his reader . and after all this mighty pretence to demonstration and infallibility , the whole dispute comes to this , whether men may attain to greater certainty of christ's doctrine by oral and practical traditions than we can do by scripture , reason and tradition ? but this is against his words , where he saith , seeing then christians are bound to profess their faith true , as to those points of a trinity , for example , or incarnation , &c. it follows , that it must be affirm'd and held that a trinity or incarnation absolutely is , and consequently , that it is impossible not to be . vii . about moral certainty . his whole book called faith vindicated was written against it . and in the preface to it , p. . he opposes absolute certainty to moral ; and he saith , those who have it not , have no true faith. page . true faith by reason of its immoveable grounds , can bear an asserting the absolute impossibility of its falshood . and without this , he makes faith absurd , preternatural and irrational . page . moral certainty is in reality uncertainty ; and the highest degree of moral certainty is the lowest degree of vncertainty , truly so called . the same he asserts , pag. , , . error nonplust . pag. . fallible certainty destroys all efficacy , all defence , and even essence of faith. when i read in lominus , pag. . that i. s. in his vindication pleaded , that he required no more than moral evidence for the assent and profession of faith , i could hardly believe him ; and therefore i was earnest to see what he would say in answer to this ; but even there , pag. . he owns it , and saith expresly , that moral evidence is absolutely sufficient to faith : but withal he saith , there is more than moral evidence in tradition . let now any indifferent person compare those assertions together : if moral certainty be vncertainty , and destroy the essence of faith , how can it be absolutely sufficient to faith ? but besides the contradiction ; he hath by this one assertion overthrown the whole design of his catholick letters . for , if true faith may be had without infallible certainty , what need any such contending about it ? for the ground of the dispute is about such faith as is necessary to salvation ; and if true faith , as j. s. grants , which is necessary to salvation , may be had without their pretended infallibility ; there is no colour left for pressing persons of our communion to forsake our church , because we cannot have infallible certainty of faith , when themselves grant that we may be saved without it . and what sincerity is to be expected from such a man , who makes such out-cries upon us , for want of infallible certainty for faith , when himself confesses , that moral certainty is sufficient to faith ? what ever becomes of moral certainty , i love moral honesty ; and i cannot see how it is consistent with it , to make such mighty pretences to the necessity of infallible certainty for faith , even in his catholick letters ( which seems to be the chief design of them , ) when himself had declared to the cardinals at rome , that less than that is sufficient for true faith. but the secret of it is , he knows well enough , there is no such necessity for infallible certainty ; and when it will bring him off , he can own it ; but among us hereticks , they must bluster and make a mighty noise about it ; because it startles weak and injudicious people ; and they find nothing so apt to terrifie and confound them like infallibility ; which like a flash of lightning doth not help them to see better , but strikes them down with horror and astonishment . and here i might fairly stop and send the reader to j. s. for an effectual answer to his own letters ; or at least to shew ; how very unfit he was after such going forward , and backwards in this matter , to undertake this cause . . but lest i should seem to decline any thing which may seem material , i shall now proceed to state the controversie , as it lies between mr. s. and me . for , what concerns another person , i shall leave it to himself , as not standing in need of any assistance from me . the occasion of the conference was set down by mr. m. to have been , that mr. g. affirmed in some companies , that no protestant could shew any ground of absolute certainty for their faith ; and that mr. s. had promised him , that if i were not able to manifest the contrary , he would forsake our communion . so that mr. g. was the aggressor by laying this charge upon us , that we could shew no ground of absolute certainty for our faith. and therefore when in the conference i assigned the scripture for the ground and rule of our faith , and universal tradition for the proof of the books of scripture , i had reason in my expostulatory letter to mr. g. , to desire of him to shew , that we have no absolute certainty of the rule of our faith , viz. the scripture , although we have a larger and firmer tradition for it , than you can have for the points in difference between us . this plainly relates to the conference , wherein scripture was own'd to be our rule , and vniversal tradition , the evidence on which we receive the books . and to any man of sense , this is not shifting and tricking off the proof to mr. g. as mr. g. often calls it ; but it is a plain and evident proof of our certainty upon their own grounds . for , if tradition be such a ground of absolute certainty , as they assert , and we have a larger and firmer tradition for scripture , than they can produce for the points of faith in difference between us ; then it is evident we must have , upon their own principles , a ground of absolute certainty for our faith ; which was the main point of the conference . if he will answer the argument , he must either deny that we have vniversal tradition for the books of scripture , or that vniversal tradition is a ground for the absolute certainty of faith ? either of these ways he had said something to the purpose ; but he found this way of reasoning too hot for him ; and therefore , he calls it shifting and tricking off the proof to mr. g. and so falls into a tragical declamation against my not proving , and making a secret of the ground of our certainty ; as if a man intended to make a secret of a horse he had lost , when he published his marks in the gazett . here is the ground of our certainty laid down in that very place , where he saith , i shift off the proof to mr. g. but alas for him ! he cannot see any thing like a proof , unless it be serv'd up , with all its due formalities of major , minor and conclusion . must i be forced to tell him , as the painters did by ill pictures , this is a horse , and this a wolf ? this is an argument , and this an answer ? it is a hard case if a man cannot understand reason , unless like scaliger's jests against cardan , there be something in the margin to direct where they are to be found . all men of sense understand the force of an argument , though it be not dressed up after the way of the schools ; and to tye men up to those methods of reasoning in our age in books of controversie , is like trammelling a horse , when he is to go a journey ; it might do well to teach him to pace , but it would be ridiculous , when he is upon service . upon this he runs out into a very eloquent piece of trifling , making sad moans and complaints with many exaggerations , and great variety of phrases , as if i offer'd no kind of certainty to mens souls , but only that i bid those that doubt prove the contrary ; and so brings notable parallels of peters having twenty pounds in his purse , because paul cannot prove he hath it not ; or his having the more title to an estate , because an adversary may have the ill luck to be nonsuited . i know not how mr. g. will take these things ; for they do not seem much to his advantage . if i were as he , i would never trust him to play my cards more ; for what means this insinuation of nonsuiting , & c ? but mr. s. is plainly mistaken , for the force of it doth not depend upon his bare nonsuiting ; but upon the goodness of the deeds , and the strength of the evidence , which himself relied upon , and appear much stronger for us than for him . it is not pauls not proving , but peters producing the twenty pounds , and laying it before him , which is the argument to prove he hath it . suppose he did not produce it in specie , but shewed good security for it , such as paul could not deny , had he not reason to believe he was owner of it ? there being so little colour in the reasoning part , i pass over the declamatory , as fitter for the school at the savoy , than a writer of controversies . but here comes in , among his flowers , a very notable point of divinity . truth is therefore truth , because it is built on intrinsecal grounds which prove it to be such ; and not on private mens abilities , or their saying this or that . this latter is undoubtedly true , and is universally believed , since the school of pythagoras was broken up : wherefore till those grounds be produced , it cannot be with reason held truth . this is great ; and becoming the scientifical i. s. but will he hold to this ? will he own it to the cardinals of the inquisition ? i find a certain gentleman with the very fame letters , j. s. writing two whole sections , wherein he denies that ever he medled with intrinsic mediums , or that it was possible that he should . but p. t. was then living , and followed him close at rome ; now that fright is over , out come intrinsic grounds again ; and no man can hold any thing as truth , till those grounds be produced . suppose a man assents to the doctrine of faith , as true and divine on meerly extrinsecal grounds , or motives of credibility ; hath this man true faith or not ? is he bound to hold and profess it to be true , though he doth not see the intrinsecal grounds which prove truth to be truth ? doth that man sin , who professes to believe a thing to be true , though he doth not see the intrinsic grounds for it ? what kind of sin is it , mortal , or venial ? how far may a man safely deny that which he cannot with reason hold to be true ? how many thousand martyrs lives , might this doctrine have saved in the primitive times ? how might the poor innocent christians have pleaded for themselves ; that they could see no intrinsic grounds , which made truth to be truth ; and they understood from a deep divine , that till those grounds be produced , it cannot with reason be held truth ; and if it cannot with reason be held , it may surely in our very hard circumstances , with reason , be denied , or at least concealed and dissembled . there seems to be more danger in professing the faith without it ; than in not owning it , being not able to produce intrinsic grounds for it . and these are far above our reach and capacity ; and if it cannot with reason be held truth without it , it seems very unreasonable to require us to dye for it . what saith j. s. to the case of the jews , who heard our saviours doctrine , and saw his miracles , did they sin in their infidelity or not ? it will be very hard for him prove , that they saw intrinsic grounds for what they were required to believe ; and yet our saviour charges them with very great sin in their infidelity . i hope mr. s. will not answer me , about these things , as he did some in the conference at paris , with , tace , tace , interrumpis & confundis me . this very instance of the jews was then brought against him by dr. g. and he said , that only those jews sinned , who had clear evidence that christs miracles were true and supernatural . but a. b. of d. then urged , that if they had such evidence , they could not have inward vnbelief , nor call in question the truth or divinity of christ and his miracles . to which j. s. replied , tace , nolo tibi respondere . i hope he is better provided of an answer now , and that he will shew , wherein the sin of the jews lay , who did not profess christ's doctrine to be true , because they could not produce any intrinsic grounds for the truth of it . but to return to our first controversie , about the certainty of faith to be proved by us . he tells me , that i know well enough , that to prove protestants have no absolute certainty of their faith is no hard task even for a weak man ; i know , he saith , that any man may find it confessed to his hands by protestants ; and in the margin he cites , dr. tillotsons rule of faith , pag. , . i wonder at mr. s's . courage , that he dares mention that book , to which he hath so many years been indebted for an answer , and what he hath offer'd towards it in faith vindicated , and reason against raillery , he hath again retracted as to the main principles of them , for fear of a censure at rome ; and which he advanced out of opposition to those of that book which he quotes here . so that j. s. by disowning those principles of his , hath justified dr. t. and hath overthrown the absolute certainty of his own faith. for i have already proved from his own words , that he owns moral evidence to be absolutely sufficient for faith ; and yet this is the very thing from whence he proves that protestants have confessed that they have no absolute certainty of their faith. but if this matter were to be decided by the confession of parties , what thinks he of those of the church of rome , who have charged his doctrine about infallible certainty , with downright heresie and impiety , and that it leads to atheism and infidelity , and overthrows the christian faith ? this we are told is the sense of all the learned and orthodox men of your church . let the reader judge what j. s. hath gotten by the confession of parties . i hope now we shall come to the state of the question ; for he charges me with perverting it : the first question ( he saith ) at the conference , was , whether protestants are absolutely certain , that they hold now the same tenets in faith and all that our saviour taught to his apostles . and my answer , he saith , was , they are . by his favour , my answer was not in those words , but that we are absolutely certain that we now hold all the same doctrine that was taught by christ and his apostles . and for a certain reason , i desire my own words may express my mind ; for i do not find oral tradition infallible ; and where words are varied , the sense may be so too . but he observes , that i trick it off again , as he calls it , ( i suppose it is gamesters language , ) from the point of absolute certainty of faith , to absolute certainty of the rule of faith , viz. the scripture ; but our saviour and protestants believe more than that the book so called , is scripture . is certainty of this more , and certainty of this book , all one ? here is then an enquiry after one thing , plainly turned off to another . it seems mr. g. is quite gone for a gamester ; for he discerned no tricking in this matter , nor can i. it is very true , we do believe more , than that the book so called is scripture ; for we believe all the matters of faith contained in that book . and what then ? if by his more , he means articles of faith not contained in scripture ; then i tell him plainly , we believe no more . and therefore when mr. g. put his next question , as he thought very pertinently , by what certain rule do you hold it ? my answer was , by the divine revelation contained in the writings of the new testament : whereby i excluded his more , if it be not contained in scripture . but if by more , he means our assent to the points of faith contained in scripture , i shall give a full answer to it afterwards . then he asked , by what certain rule do you know that the new testament , which we now have , does contain all the divine revelations of christ and his apostles ? and if he puts such questions concerning the rule , what tricking was it in me , to give a direct answer to them ? how did i turn off the enquiry from one thing to another , when i only answered the questions he proposed ? this is not playing mr. g 's cards , but condemning him for playing unskilfully ; and desiring to begin a new game ; for mr. g. had a bad hand , and managed it very ill . but what would j. s. have done ? the thing to be made manifest by the conference , was , the absolute certainty of protestant faith. and so it was ; for protestant faith is to believe all that is contained in scripture , and no more . mr. g. did indeed ask some questions about your certainty of your rule ; and i gave him direct answers . where is the tricking in all this ? but i wisely cut off the course of the questions before they had question'd away the certainty of faith. so far otherwise , that i let them alone , till they plainly run away from the business of certainty to another question ; and then mr. t. cut them off , by declaring himself satisfied ; and asking how they could prove the church of rome to be infallible ? but now we are to see how much better the cards might have been plaid . and now , look ye gentlemen , the man of skill begins the game . after the certainty of scripture from tradition was admitted , there was no refusing to admit that tradition causes certainty , and makes faith as certain as scripture . see the difference of these two gamesters at tradition ! but what if i should yield him , that i will not refuse to give my assent to any point of faith , which comes down to us from the apostles times with as large and as firm a tradition as the scripture ? then ( saith he ) it would have proved something difficult to satisfie even a willing man , that the faith is certain which is opposed to a faith come down by tradition . something difficult ! nay very much so , without doubt . but this is fairly to suppose , that you have as vniversal a tradition for your tridentine faith , as we have for the scripture ; but this i utterly deny ; and i hope in another treatise to shew , i have not done it without reason . let the matter of tradition itself , as a rule of faith , be one of these points . if there were a constant vniversal tradition in the christian church from the apostolical times , that there were matters of faith necessary to salvation not contained in scripture , i grant that it would be difficult , to prove it to be a matter of faith that scripture alone is our rule of faith. but that is the mighty advantage of our cause , that we have both scripture and tradition for us ; and that no catholick tradition can be produced against us , in any one point of the additional creed of pius iv. which is the design i have undertaken , of which i shall suddenly publish the first part ; and if god gives me life and health , i hope to go through the rest. well ; but in the mean time , absolute certainty of scripture was not the point of the conference . can j. s. tell better than the managers ? his meaning is , it ought not to have been . nor is it the point of concern . this is strange . not the point of concern to those that own it to be the word of god , and the only rule of faith ! it is of infinite concern to us ; if it be not to you , i pity you for it . besides that , it is agreed on all hands , men are saved by believing and practising what christ taught , not barely by believing scripture is scripture . this is no new speculation ; but what follows from it ? therefore we ought to believe christ's doctrine contained in scripture , and obey his commands ; and do i give the least intimation against this ? but , the question was about our rule of faith , and that i still think is the scripture ; and whatever is contained therein , is to be believed on that account . but salvation is the thing that imports us in these disputes , and 't were well if nothing else were minded by disputers . and so think i too . i desire no more to end our controversies , than to make salvation our end , and the scripture our rule . but how can salvation be the thing that imports us in these disputes , if men cannot with reason hold any thing true , unless they can produce the intrinsecal grounds which prove it to be so ? doth mr. s. in earnest think , that none are saved but metaphysical speculators , that perch upon the specifick nature of things , and dig into the intrinsecal grounds of truth ? if this be his opinion , how few can be saved ! but if salvation be the end , the means must be suitable to the capacity of mankind ; and i do not think , the intrinsecal grounds of truth are so . but aftey all , he saith , that i stifle any further talk of the certainty of protestent faith. how can that be , when i own no protestant faith but what is contained in scripture , or may be deduced from it ; according to the sixth article of our church . i am not conscious to myself of any art in the matter , which he charges me with ; and he saith , i avoid what cannot be performed . what is that ? to make out that protestants are absolutely certain that they now hold all the same doctrine that was taught by christ and his apostles . if all that doctrine be contained in scripture , and they hold the scripture by grounds of absolute certainty , then protestants must be certain that they hold all the same doctrine that was taught by christ and his apostles . afterwards mr. s. starts something that comes nearer to the business ; which is , that certainty of faith and certainty of scripture , are two things : for those who have as much certainty of scripture as we , may have not only an vncertain but a wrong faith ; and therefore i am concerned to shew , not only that protestants have certainty of their rule , but of the faith which they pretend to have from that rule : that which i am now upon , is to settle the true state of the controversie about the certainty of faith. in the conference , my first answer was , that , we are absolutely certain that we now hold all the same doctrine , that was taught by christ and his apostles . and when the question was asked , by what certain rule do we hold it ? i answer'd , by the divine revelation contained in the writings of the new testament . so that the certainty of scripture was that which i was obliged to answer to . now comes j. s. and he finds fault with mr. g's management ; because he asked questions about the certainty of the rule ; whereas he ought to have gone another way to work . so that now mr. g. is given up , and a new controversie is begun upon other grounds ; and the words which i used with respect to the rule , are applied to particular doctrines . he saith , the certainty of scripture was not the point for which the conference was . how comes he to know better than mr. g. unless he directed the point , and mr. g. mistook and lost it in the management ? but i am now bound to manifest , that protestants have absolute certainty , not only of the scripture , as the rule , but of the faith they have from that rule , or else to own that i cannot . it seems mr. g's good nature betray'd him , when he asked questions about the rule of faith ; and so the main point was lost . yet methinks it was not meer good nature in mr. g. for , when we are asked , about the grounds and certainty of our faith , how is it possible we should answer more pertinently , than to assign the rule of our faith ? and we declare it to be the scripture , by which we judge what we are to believe , and what not . and therefore if any ask us of the matter of our faith , we must answer , it is whatever god hath revealed in the scripture which is our rule . if they ask us , how we come to know these books to be written by such persons , we say , it is by the vniversal tradition of the christian churches . if they ask us , why we believe the doctrine contained in those books , then our answer is , from the divine testimonies , which make us certain that it came from god. and thus we answer both to that which is called , the material and formal object of faith ; and if we are absolutely certain of these , we must be so of our faith. if we ask a jew about the certainty of his faith , he saith , he is certain of it , because all his faith is contained in the books of moses , and he is well assured they were written by divine inspiration . if we ask a mahometan , of his faith , his answer is , that his faith is contained in the alcoran ; and by proving that , he proves the certainty of his faith ; and if that be disproved , the certainty of it is overthrown . those who resolve their faith into a written rule , must go thither , when questions are asked them about the certainty of their faith. for , if i believe every thing in it , and nothing but what is in it , there lies my faith , and the certainty of it depends upon the certainty of my rule . but i must shew the certainty of the faith of protestants , as it is pretended to be taken from the rule . not certainly , when the question is asked about the entire object of our faith , or when we are to shew how we hold all the same doctrine that was taught by christ and his apostles ; for the word all makes it necessary for us to assign our rule wherein that all is contained . if he ask us of the certainty of any particular point of our faith , then we are to make it out , that this is contained in our rule ; and our certainty is according to the evidence we are able to produce for it . for the case is not the same , as to particular points of faith , with that of the general grounds of the certainty of faith. a jew firmly believes all that is contained in the books of moses , and with the highest degree of certainty ; but whether the resurrection can be proved certainly from those books , is a particular point ; and he may have absolute certainty of all contained in those books , though he may not have it , as to such a particular point . and when we come to particular points , their case is not only different from the general rule of faith , but such points are very different both among themselves , and as to the certainty of them . for , ( ) there are some points of faith , which were necessary to be revealed , because they were necessary to be believed , in order to our salvation by jesus christ. for as mr. s. saith , salvation is the thing of greatest importance ; and therefore on supposition , that it is to be by jesus christ , the nature of the thing requires , that we have a firm and established faith in him . and of these points of faith , the church hath given a summary in the creeds which were proposed to those who were to be baptized ; and not only st. augustin , but aquinas saith , these were taken out of scripture ; and the certainty of them to us , doth depend not upon the authority of the church proposing them ; but the evidence of scripture for them , which is very much confirmed to us by the concurrent testimony of the christian church in all ages , from the apostles times , i. e. as to the main articles ; for that there was a great variety , as to others , is evident to any one who will compare the ancient creeds , as i have lately shewed . and these main articles are those which aquinas calls the prima credibilia ; which are therefore revealed , because necessary to be believed by all that hope for salvation by jesus christ. ii. there are other points of faith , which are only necessary to be believed , because they are so clearly revealed ; as that cajaphas was high priest when christ suffer'd ; that there were two malefactors who suffer'd with him ; that he was buried in joseph of arimathea's sepulchre ; no man who believes the scripture can doubt of these things ; and yet we do not make these points of faith in themselves necessary , because they have no immediate reference to salvation , which might have been as effectually carried on , if there had been another high priest , or christ had lain in another sepulchre . but in these points there is an absolute certainty from the unquestionable evidence of their being contained in scripture . iii. there are doctrinal points not necessary to salvation , about which some may attain to a greater degree of certainty than others . and the same measure is not required of all ; because mens capacities are not equal , if they do use equal diligence ; and all are not obliged to the same degrees of diligence that some are . as to the points necessary to salvation , god is not wanting by his grace to make them known to men of honest and sincere minds . and this is no peculiar doctrine of mine , as j. s. would insinuate , but it hath been the constant doctrine of their most learned and judicious school-divines ; as is evident from what they speak of the donum intellectus , and the lumen fidei , which secure men from errour in what concerns their salvation . if he hath therefore such an inveterate spleen against this doctrine , let him attaque the greatest divines of the church of rome , who have in terms asserted the same , which i have done . and i would fain see j. s. demonstrating against aquinas , and all his followers , that there is no such security from errour in points necessary to salvation , where ever god bestows true grace . as to points not necessary to salvation , i do not affirm , there is any such ground of absolute certainty , as to particular persons , who are only concerned as to their own salvation . and that was the reason of my answer to the fourth question . the universal testimony of the christian church , concerning the book of scripture , and the doctrine contained therein is a sufficient ground to make us certain of all matters necessary to our salvation . but of this more afterwards . it is sufficient here to observe , that even in the church of rome , there are points of doctrine , which are not de fide , and consequently the certainty of faith is not required to them . and then it is most unreasonable to require the absolute certainty of faith in those things which we deny to be points of faith. it is , as if we should ask them what absolute certainty of faith they have , as to the immaculate conception and assumption of the b. virgin , or the popes infallibility , they would tell us , these are no points of faith with them , and therefore it is unreasonable to ask after the absolute certainty of faith , where there is no faith pretended . the same we say , in the like case , it is very absurd to demand of us the absolute certainty of our faith in such things , wherein we never pretend to a certainty of faith ; but of common sense and reason proceeding according to the rule of scripture . as , if men impose false and absurd doctrines upon us , as transubstantiation ; &c. we insist upon the common right of mankind , not to be required to believe contradictions ; and the right of christians , not to believe , what hath neither scripture , nor reason , nor tradition for it . and these are the grounds on which we reject the additional creed of pius the fourth . we make them no points of faith at all ; and if others do make them so , we desire to be excused , because it is as certain to us they are not so , as we can be of negatives : and farther than this we go not in such points ; and if this be what he means by protestant faith , he hath my answer . iv. the general reason of the certainty of faith in particular persons is not from conclusive evidence as to the points of faith , but from some higher cause . and this mr. s. ought to know hath been the constant doctrine of the schools ever since divinity hath been brought into them . i except only one franciscus de marchia , who required conclusive evidence to the certainty of faith , but he is disputed against by gregorius ariminensis ; and he saith , his doctrine was condemned by the faculty of paris ; and gregory de valentia , speaks of him with great contempt for holding so absurd a doctrine . the certainty of faith is declared by the antient school-men to be above opinion , and below science : by which they understood , the intrinsic grounds on which truth is built ; which mr. s. makes necessary to the profession of it . hugo de sancto victore , saith , that the highest certainty of faith is owing to a pious and pure disposition of the mind , and an immediate divine influence . petrus pictaviensis , that it lies not in evidence , but adherence . guliel . parisiensis , proves conclusive evidence repugnant to faith , in a long discourse . gul. antissiodorensis , thinks rational evidence good to support and defend the faith , and to prepare men for it ; but that the certainty of it lies not in speculation , but in an adherence of the mind to the prime verity . alex. alensis , saith likewise , its certainty doth not lie in speculation , but in inward affection and adherence ; there is , he saith , an inferiour sort of acquisite faith which relies on reasons and testimonies ; but this , he saith , is meerly natural and preparatory to divine faith. bonaventure saith , the certainty of adherence is beyond that of speculation , because a martyr may have doubts , and yet die for his faith. thomas aquinas thinks , those that go about to bring demonstrations for faith , expose it to the scorn and reproach of infidels ; and he resolves the inward certainty of faith into divine illumination ; when the objection was put , that matters of faith could not be resolved into first principles . which mr. s. hath so long and so vainly pretended to . henricus gandavensis saith , there is a certainty of adherence in the habit of faith ; and that the evidence of credibility falls much short of that of science ; and he makes scripture the rule , whereby we are to judge of the doctrine of the present church , and of all ages succeeding the apostles . scotus distinguisheth between acquisite and human faith , and divine or infused faith ; but he denies any infallibility to belong to the former . durandus denies faith to be consistent with conclusive evidence ; and that the motives of credibility affords such evidence , because that necessitates assent . and it is observable , that he resolves faith not into the testimony of the present , but of the apostolical church . i need produce no more , to shew what a stranger mr. s. is to the doctrine of his own church ; or else what an obstinate opposer he is of it . but this is sufficient to shew what grounds of the certainty of faith are allowed by the chief divines of the church of rome , and how very different they are from those of the catholick letters . to summ up briefly therefore the state of this controversie about the certainty of our faith ; i. i assert , that we are absolutely certain of the formal object of our faith , viz. that whatever god reveals , is true , and to be professed by us , though we do not see the intrinsick grounds of it . ii. we are absolutely certain of the infallible rule of our faith ; and that all the necessary points of faith , in order to the salvation of mankind , are therein contained - iii. the general certainty of divine faith in true believers , according to their own divines , doth not depend upon conclusive evidence , or intrinsick grounds , but an inward perception caused by divine grace . iv. particular points of faith are more or less certain , according to the evidence of their deduction from scripture as the rule of faith. v. where any propositions are imposed as points of faith , which others deny , those who impose , are bound to prove the certainty of them as such , and not those who reject them . and this is our case as to the points in difference between us and those of the church of rome : we do not make the negatives any points of our faith , any further than as the scripture is our rule , and we cannot be bound consequently to receive any thing as a point of faith , but what is contained in it , or deduced from it . but the church of rome requiring us to receive them as points of faith , is bound to prove the certainty of them as such . having thus endeavoured to set this controversie about the certainty of faith in its true light , i now proceed to consider what mr. s. doth object against it . and i shall conceal nothing that looks like an argument . his raillery i despise , and his impertinencies i shall pass over . i. that which looks most like an argument , is , what he hath set out by way of propositions in his first letter . . god hath left us some way to know what surely christ and his apostles taught . . therefore this way must be such , that they who take it , shall arrive by it at the end it was intended for ; i. e. know surely what christ and his apostles taught . . scriptures letter interpretable by private judgments , is not that way ; for we experience presbyterians and socinians ( for example ) both take that way , yet differ in such high fundamentals , as the trinity and the godhead of christ. . therefore scriptures letter interpretable by private judgments , is not the way left by god to know surely what christ and his apostles taught , or surely to arrive at right faith. . therefore they who take only that way , cannot by it arrive surely at right faith , since 't is impossible to arrive at the end , without the means or way that leads to it . upon setting down this , mr. s being sensible he had plaid his best cards , cannot help a little expressing the satisfaction he had in the goodness of his game . i do not ( saith he ) expect any answer to this discourse , as short as it is , and as plain , and as nearly as it touches your copy-hold . alas for me , that am fallen into the hands of such a gamester ! but i am resolved to disappoint him , and to give him a clear and full answer to this shew of reasoning . and that shall be , by making it appear , i. that it proceeds upon false suppositions . ii. that it destroys any rule of faith , even his own admired oral and practical tradition . i. that it proceeds upon false suppositions . as. . that no certainty can be attained where there is no infallibility . for if men may arrive at certainty where there is a general possibility of deception , all this seeming demonstration comes to nothing . and yet this is a thing all mankind are agreed in , who allow any such thing as certainty ; and the contrary opinion was ( which mr. s. little thinks ) the very foundation of seepticism ; viz. that there could be no certainty , unless men could find out such an infallible mark of truth , which could not agree to what was false ; as he might have learned in cicero's lucullus , without sending him to pyrrho's scholars . and till zeno and his disciples pretended to find out this , scepticism gained little ground ; but when they yielded to that principle , that no certainty was to be had without it , then a mighty advantage was given them , which they improved accordingly . but the more judicious philosophers were forced to quit the stoicks infallible mark , and to proceed upon such evidence of perception , and sense , and ratiocination , as might in things not self-evident form an assent which excludes all reasonable doubt of the contrary . but still those who pretended to infallibility , were the most deceived . as epicurus thought there could be no certainty in sense , unless it were made infallible ; and from hence he ran into that gross absurdity , that the sun was really no bigger than he seemed to be to our senses . for , he went just upon mr. s. his principles , if there be a possibility of deception , there can be no true certainty ; and to make good this hypothesis , the sun must be no bigger than a bonfire . but the wiser philosophers took in the assistance of reason , which , though not infallible , might give such evidence , as afforded certainty , where it fell short of demonstration . as in physical and moral things . i grant , that some of those who talked most and best of demonstration , fell wonderfully short of it , when they came to apply notions to things ; and the demonstrations they made were to little or no purpose , in the promoting of knowledge , as , that man is a rational creature , &c. but their physical speculations are very far from it ; yet this doth not hinder but that a certainty is attainable as to the nature of things . and in morals , they knew and confessed there could be no demonstration in them ; yet they professed a true certainty they had as to the nature of happiness , and the real differences of vertue and vice : they owned some moral principles to be absolutely certain , as that good is to be chosen , and evil to be avoided , &c. but in particular cases , they made use of the best reason they had , to prove some things good , and others evil. and although they could not proceed with equal certainty in all vertues and vices ; yet in some they had clear evidence , and in others they made use of the best means to give satisfaction to themselves and others . thus it is in matters of faith , there are some things absolutely certain , as , that god cannot deceive us ; that the scripture is our rule of faith ; but then , whether such points be contained in that rule and be of divine revelation , is not self-evident ; and therefore these must be deduced by all the best methods of reasoning from a written rule ; and when persons have examined the scripture with all the care and diligence , which one who would arrive at certainty thinks himself obliged to , then i do affirm , that such a man may attain to a true certainty and satisfaction of mind about it . and that true certainty is attainable without infallibility , i shall prove by an undeniable instance ( if an instance willl be allowed ; and i hope i shall make it appear as reasonable for me to produce instances as himself , ) and that is , concerning a point of faith of the greatest importance , viz. that jesus christ was the true messias foretold by the prophets . the proof of this depended on the interpretation of scripture ; and there could be no infallible interpreter relied upon in this case . as to christ himself , although he really was so , yet we suppose the question to be about him , whether he were an infallible teacher or not ; and therefore we must not suppose the thing to be proved . as to the publick interpretation , which mr. s. makes his infallible rule , if that were to be relied upon , then a jew was bound not to believe christ to be the true messias , because the publick interpretation was against him ; and the traditional sense of the prophecies was against him , being for a temporal prince ; i now demand of mr. s. whether the jews were capable of certainty in this point or not ? if not , then the jews were excused in their infidelity : if they were , then true certainty may be had without an infallible guide , although the publick interpretation and tradition be against it . and if it may be had in so difficult a case , which depended on the sense of obscure prophecies ; much more certainly under the clear revelation of the gospel ; wherein all necessary points are laid down with so much clearness , that the fault must be more in mens wills than their vnderstandings , if they do not apprehend them . . the second false supposition is , that a rule of faith must be a mechanical rule , and not a rational ; i. e. it must be like a carpenters rule , that hath all its dimensions fixed , and ready to be applied to material things ; but in matters of understanding no such rule is to be expected . the philosophers who disputed so much about certainty , would have laughed at any man who had applied a material rule to intellectual things ; yet this is mr. s's great example : i take my ruler , saith he , and draw a line by it ; does the streightness or crookedness of this line depend upon my vnderstanding ? by no means . but is there any such intellectual rule as this ? there have been great disputes in the world , among men of wit and subtilty , about the certainty of human knowledg ; whether any infallible criterion could be found to discern truth and falshood ? but they never imagined any such thing as an intellectual ruler to draw lines by ; but that there were certain differences of truth and falshood , which men might find out , but not without diligence and application of their minds to it . and notwithstanding the characters of truth and falshood were in themselves certain , yet it was very possible for men to mistake about them ; not only for want of judgment , but of diligence and impartiality : so we say here as to a rule of faith ; we do not suppose it to be a material rule ; i. e. if a man take the letter of scripture , and apply it to any opinions , he must presently know whether they be true or false ; but it is a rational and intellectual rule , which is absolutely certain in it self ; and whatever agrees to it is true , and whatever doth not is false : but still there may be mistakes in the vnderstanding and applying it ; and therefore care , and diligence , and impartiality , are required ; by which some may attain to that certainty , which others miss off . as in the points he mentions of the presbyterians and socinians differing about such high fundamentals , as the trinity and godhead of christ. . why presbyterians and socinians , i beseech him ? there is a notable insinuation in this , as though we of the church of england were socinians in those points ; and none but papists and presbyterians were orthodox in them . but this is an insinuation which hath as much folly as malice in it ; since our solemn and express declarations , are to the contrary : and he may as well call us papists as socinians , since our writings are as plainly against one , as the other . what our sense as to these matters is , he may find in the dialogues of the doctrine of the trinity and transubstantiation compared ; not long since published by a divine of the church of england . but to pass this over , . suppose the difference between us and the socinians , what then ? both take the same way of scriptures letter interpretable by private judgments , and yet differ in these fundamental points . and what follows ? that the scripture is no certain rule ? by no means . but that the socinians may err , and certainly do in misinterpreting this rule . but how can it be a certain rule , if men that use it may err in using it ? how can reason be certain in any thing , if men following reason may mistake ? how can arithmetick be a certain way of computation , if men following the rules of arithmetick , may mistake in casting up a sum ? doth any man question the certainty of the rule , for mens blundering in their accompts ? yet this is his way of reasoning . and i will put it just with his propositions . i. arithmetick prescribes a certain way by addition and substraction for us to find out any sum. ii. therefore it must be such that they who take it , shall arrive by it , at the exact sum. iii. but two men who have made use of the same way , differ at least a hundred in casting up the sum. iv. therefore arithmetick doth not prescribe a certain way to attain at a certain sum. v. therefore they who take only that way , cannot by it arrive at the certain sum. is not this clear and evident demonstration ? but those who consider a little better than mr. s. hath done , will distinguish between the rule and the application of it . the rule of arithmetick may be nevertheless certain , although those who want skill , or care and diligence , may mistake in casting up a particular accompt . the same we say here , scripture is a certain rule in all fundamental points , to such as have capacity and use , due care and diligence in finding them . but we do not deny , but men through prejudice , weakness , want of attention , authority of false teachers , impatience of throughly examining things , and not using proper helps may run into gross errors ; such as these about the trinity and incarnation ; but still the rule is certain to those who use it aright , although it be very possible for men through their own faults to mistake about it . and this is no way disagreeing to the infinite wisdom of god , who deals with us as with rational creatures ; and hath put faculties into us , that we might use them in order to the certainty of our faith. and such moral qualifications are required in the new testament , in order to the discerning the doctrine of it , as humility of mind , purity of heart , prayer to god , sincere endeavour to do the will of god ; that it would be very repugnant to the design of it , to suppose that the letter of scripture alone would give a man immediate and certain directions in all matters of doctrine being applied to it . therefore an easie answer is to be given to mr. s's . great difficulty , viz. how the sense drawn from the letter can any more fail to be true , than the line drawn by the rule to be straight . for , we say , that the sense truly drawn from the scripture can never fail to be true ; but we do not say , that every man must draw the true sense from the scripture ; for , although the scripture be an infallible rule , yet unless every man that makes use of it be infallible , he may mistake in the application of it . and this to me is so clear , that to make an infallible rule in his sense , he must make every person that uses it infallible , or else he may err in the application of it : but the right way , saith mr. s. will certainly bring a man to his journeys end , and the way must needs be a wrong way if it do it not . the right way will certainly bring them to their journeys end , if they continue in it ; but here we must consider what is meant by the journeys end. if by it be understood their salvation , then we say , that those who do their utmost endeavours to keep in that way , shall not fail of their journeys end. but if by it be understood the certain truth or falshood of every opinion tried by the scripture , then i answer , that although the sense of scripture be infallibly true , yet it was not designed as an infallible way for us to know the truth and falshood of all particular opinions by . for , as mr. s. well observes , salvation is that which chiefly imports us ; and it was for that end the doctrine of christ is made known to us , and it is an infallible way to it , if men continue therein ; but for judging the truth or falshood of opinions without respect to salvation as the end , it was not intended as an infallible way to every one that makes use of it ; and therefore it is easie for men to mistake in judging by it of things it was not design'd for . as if a man designed to observe all the old roman cities and stations here , and were told the old roman way would be a certain way to lead him to them , with the help of the roman itinerary , if that man objects , that this will not do , for he cannot find out all the modern towns and villages by this means , is it not a just and reasonable answer to say , that is a most certain way , which leads a man to that which it was design'd for ; and the roman way was only intended for roman foundations , but it is very unreasonable to find fault with it , because it doth not lead you to all modern towns and villages . so say i here ; the scripture was designed by divine wisdom to make us wise to salvation , and thither it will infallibly lead us , if we keep to it ; but if besides this we would know by it such things as are not necessary to salvation , we blame it for that , which was not in the original intention and design of it . for , when we make use of it to be our rule of judgment , meerly as to truth and falshood of things not necessary to salvation ; it is not because it was designed for that end ; but because it is of divine revelation , and so is the surest standard of divine truth ; and we are sure there is no other rule for us to judge besides . from whence we may and ought to reject any points of faith imposed upon us , which are neither contained in scripture , nor can be proved from it . and so it is our positive rule of faith , as to all necessary articles ; and our negative rule as to all pretended points of faith , which are not proved from thence . ii. i answer , that this method of mr. s. will overthrow the possibility of any rule of faith ; because none can be assigned , which it is not possible for men to misapprehend , and to mistake about it . let us at present suppose mr. s. to substitute his rule of faith in stead of scripture , viz. oral and practical tradition . why may not men mistake the sense of tradition , as well as the sense of scripture ? is tradition more infallible in it self ? is it deliver'd by persons more infallible ? doth it make those to whom it is delivered infallible ? why then , may not those who deliver it , and those who receive it , both be mistaken about it ? this i had mention'd in my second letter , that it was very possible to mistake the sense and meaning of tradition ; and i instanced in that of christ's being the son of god ; where the traditionary words may be kept and yet an heretical sense may be contained under them . mr. s. answers , that the sense of the words and all the rest of christ's doctrine is convey'd down by tradition . this is bravely said , if it could be made out ; and would presently put an end to all disputes . for if all the doctrine of christ be derived down to us in such a manner , that we cannot mistake the sense of it , we must be all agreed , whether we will or not . for , how can we disagree , if we cannot mistake the sense of tradition ? not while we hold to tradition . then it seems it is possible not to hold to tradition ; and if so , we have found a terrible flaw in human nature , that will let in errors in abundance , viz. that it may grosly err about the rule of faith ; yea , so far as to renounce it . but how is this possible , if the sense of tradition be infallibly convey'd ? for is not traditions being the rule of faith any part of it ? we must in reason suppose this : and if we do so , how can persons renounce its being the rule , while they cannot but believe its being the rule ? if men may mistake about traditions being the rule of faith ; why may we not suppose , they may as well mistake about any points convey'd by it ? for the greatest security lying in the rule , there must be more care taken about that , than about the points convey'd by it . but let us see how he proves that men cannot mistake the sense of tradition in particular points : the force of what he saith , is , that men were always men , and christians were always christians ; and mr. s. is always mr. s. pretending demonstration , when there is nothing like it . if men were always men , they were always apt to be deceived ; and unless christians by being such are infallible , they are liable to mistakes . but the highest means to convey the sense of words are to be found in tradition . i am quite of another opinion ; i think it the most uncertain way in the world ; and the corruption of the first ages of the world are an evident proof of it ; when there were all possible advantages of tradition , and yet the principles of natural religion were strangely corrupted , although they were plain , easie , few , of the highest importance , and men lived so long to inculcate them into the minds of their children . if therefore , notwithstanding tradition , the world might then degenerate into polytheism and idolatry ; what absurdity is it to suppose , that notwithstanding tradition , the christian doctrine might be corrupted likewise ? but mr. s. alledges not only words but actions , to determine the sense of them ; as , that christ is the son of god ; by praying to him , and giving divine reverence to christ without stinting them , or making them scruple , lest they give too much , or commit idolatry by giving that to a creature , which is due only to god. and does not this practice , beyond all possibility of mistake , insinuate into them , that he is equally to be adored with god the father , or co-equal to him , and so not a creature , but very god of very god ? i answer , i. would not the very same reasoning have made the coming in of idolatry impossible ? for , that there was but one true god , was evident from all acts of worship , being given only to him , as the proper object of it : how then could men so foully mistake , as to give proper divine worship to any creature , there being an infinite distance between god and his creatures , which every child could not but know by a constant tradition from adam . ii. how was it possible that external acts of worship should so infallibly prove christ to be true god , if all external acts of worship be of an equivocal nature , and receive their determination from the inward sense of the mind ? did not the arians use the same external acts of worship with others , with respect to christ ? where did they ever separate from the christian assemblies , on the account of the worship given to christ ? if not , how was it possible from thence to prove christ not to be a creature ? so that this is very far from putting the point of the divinity of christ beyond the possibility of mistake . especially , when solemn invocation , which is one of the most natural parts of divine worship , came to be allowed to meer creatures . all the difference that can be assigned then , must be from mens words and professions , and not from their external actions . iii. the same divine reverence was given to christ in the apostolical times , and the utmost care used to instruct people in the true doctrine of christ ; and yet then we find that persons did err in the sense of that proposition , that christ is the son of god. for , even then , the ebionites and cerinthians understood it , not in respect of nature , but adoption ; and so did the artemonites and samosatenians afterwards . and how can that be proved impossible to be done , which we shew was actually done ? men did notoriously mistake the sense of christ's being the son of god , when it was received by tradition ; and yet mr. s. pretends it cannot be mistaken , if it be so received . mr. s. still urges , that faith hath sense in it ; and it is inconsistent with the nature of mankind , not to hold some sense or other , and with the nature of christians , not to instruct their children in that sense . and i think words written have as much sense in them as words spoken , and less liable to mistakes ; there being no such mixtures of the infirmities of men in a written rule , as in oral tradition . but instances are unlucky things to be brought against demonstrations , and such is that of the cerinthians and artemonites , who pleaded tradition for their sense ; and yet they were men , and pretended to deliver the true doctrine of christ to their disciples . i alledged another instance , how the sense of tradition might be mistaken ; and that was about a real presence in the eucharist , which might be understood in very different senses . no , saith mr. s. that cannot be ; for , faith works on our devout affections , which must either oblige us to pay an infinite veneration to a creature , if christ's real body ( and consequently god ) be not there , or if christ be not god , which is the greatest deviation from true religion that is possible ; or else to be highly irreverent , and to want the most efficacious motive that can be imagined to excite and elevate our devotions , if he be there , or christ be indeed god. truly mr. s's way of writing is the most effectual means i know to make me question whether written words be a good way to convey a certain sense to our minds . for , i cannot understand , how faiths working on our devout affections , should oblige us , either to pay an infinite veneration to a creature , or else to be highly irreverent . for , supposing i believe christ's body not to be really in the eucharist , but yet that christ himself is god , i think my self bound to shew the utmost reverence to christ as god , even in the act of receiving the eucharist : and i am of opinion , that the just apprehension of the divine majesty , is as apt to excite and elevate our devotion , as the believing the body of christ to be there really present . but it is observable , what mr. s. here grants , that if christ's body be not there , they are guilty of paying an infinite veneration to a creature , which is the greatest deviation from true religion that is possible . and upon my word then they had need have better assurance , than what he offers , to prove christ's real body to be there . for , if as great reverence may be paid to christ in heaven , as if he were in the elements , i cannot see how the posture of adoration can any ways determin the sense of tradition in this matter . and thus mr. s. hath left the sense of tradition as uncertain , as he pretends that of scripture to be ; and if his argument will hold against the one being the rule of faith , it will do as great a kindness for the other also . thus i have fully answered his main argument , against scriptures being a rule of faith , which he hath been so free with me , as to tell me i cannot answer ; and he and i must now leave it to the reader 's judgment . the summ of it is , i. we distinguish necessary points of faith , from matters of speculation . ii. we distinguish certainty of faith in order to salvation , and certainty of opinion in matters of controversie . iii. we distinguish the certainty of the rule , from the certainty of the application of that rule ▪ and then my answer lies in these things ; i. that the scripture is a certain rule of faith as to all points necessary to salvation , to all such as make use of it as such , and do not through their own fault make a wrong application thereof . ii. that the scripture was not designed for a certain rule as to vnnecessary opinions ; and therefore mens not arriving at a certainty in them , doth not hinder its being a rule of faith. iii. that scripture being our rule of faith , we are bound to reject all pretended articles of faith , which cannot with certainty be proved from the sense of scripture . and so the proof of certainty lies upon those who affirm such articles of faith , and not upon us who deny them . this argument is mr. s's goliah , and now it is no wonder if his lesser men at arms soon quit the field . but i must take some notice of them , lest they be magnified , by being slighted . his next argument is , that i contradict myself : i hope i have in the beginning made him unwilling to repeat such a charge against me , till he hath cleared himself . but wherein is it ? in another place , he saith , i deny any absolute certainty as to tradition attesting the books of scripture ; which in the conference i asserted . i have looked in the place he refers to , and there i find nothing like it . i deny the necessity of any infallible society of men , either to attest or explain the scripture . where , by an infallible society of men , i mean such as have a divine assistance to that purpose : and what is this to the absolute certainty we have of the books of scripture by vniversal tradition ? but he urges it further , if this society be not infallible , then it is fallible ; and if it be fallible , then we cannot be more than fallibly certain , and so we can have no absolute certainty from a fallible testimony . this is the whole force of what he saith . to which i answer , i. i understand no such thing as infallibility in mankind , but by immediate divine assistance , i grant , that the holy spirit may , where he pleases , preserve the minds of men from any possibility of mistake , as to those things , wherein it doth inlighten them ; but set aside this , there is no such thing as infallibility ; the utmost is a rational certainty built on clear and convincing motives . where the motives are meerly probable , there may be opinion , but no certainty ; where the evidence is thought so strong as to determine assent , there is a certainty as to the mind ; as when we commonly say , we are certain of such things , we mean no more , than that we firmly believe them ; but when the evidence is the highest , which in point of reason the thing is capable of , then there is that which i call absolute certainty ; i. e. such as depends not meerly on the assent of the mind ; but the evidence which justifies that assent . ii if by being fallibly certain , he means any suspicion , that notwithstanding such evidence in all its circumstances , i may be deceived , then i utterly deny it ; for otherwise i could not be absolutely certain ; but if he means only , that there is no divine infallibility ( and i know no other ) then i own that there is still human fallibility consistent with this absolute certainty . but mr. s. will have absolute certainty to be infallible : if nothing will satisfie him , but human ( i. e. fallible ) infallibility , much good may it do him , but i much rather chuse proper terms , which i know the certain meaning of , than improper , though they make a far greater noise . i do own an absolute certainty in some acts of the mind by inward perception , as that i think , i doubt , and that i am ; i do own an absolute certainty as to common objects of sense ; and as to some deductions of reason ; i do own an absolute certainty as to some matters of fact , by a concurrence of circumstances ; but for all that , i do not account human nature infallible , nor this an infallible certainty , unless it be taken in another sense than divines take it in . for even the divines of the church of rome as well as ours make a difference between a human and acquisite certainty , and that which is divine and infallible . and if mr. s. by divine means human , and by infallible no more than certain , he must not think he hath gained any great matter , when he hath made use of words in an improper and unusual sense . iii. his next argument is , that our rule of faith is common to all the heresies in the world , which pretend scripture , as well as we . this is just the old sceptical argument against certainty ; if there be any such thing as certainty , you must assign such a criterion which is not common to truth and falshood ; but if you cannot assign any such mark of truth , which may not as well agree to what is false , then there is no such thing as certainty to be had . in matters of this nature , the proof must not lie in generals , but we must come to particulars , to shew the grounds of our certainty , viz. as to the trinity , and incarnation of christ , and then if we cannot shew why we believe those points , and reject the opposite heresies , as arianism , sabellianism , eutychianism , &c. then we are to be blamed for want of certainty in these points , but not before . but this , he saith , is to make light and darkness very consistent , and christ and belial very good friends . it seems then , there is no difference to be found by the rule of scripture , between the doctrine of christ and the devil . is this in truth your avowed principle ? do you in earnest believe the scripture to be such a chaos , where there is no difference of light and darkness , and that nothing but confusion can be found in it ; and we cannot tell by it , whether we are to worship god or the devil ? if mr. s. grants , that there is enough in scripture to distinguish these two ; then it is a rule so far , as to put a difference between light and darkness , between christ and belial ; and so these expressions must be disowned as little less than blasphemous , for all his pitiful defence of them in his second letter ; which is , that he never said that christ and belial could be reconciled , or advanced any position that implied it . but he said , that to make scripture our rule , is to make light and darkness consistent , and christ and belial very good friends . and is not this blasphemy against scripture ? and implies , that if we go by that rule only , they may be very good friends . how can this be , unless he asserts that by scripture alone , we can find no certain difference between light and darkness , between christ and belial ? let mr. s. answer to this , and not think to escape with such a poor evasion . if he owns the scripture a certain rule as to the difference of christ and belial , and light and darkness , then we have gained thus much , that in some matters of very great moment , the scripture is a very sufficient rule and ground of certainty , as to all points between us and infidels . and if it be so , as to these points , then why not as well as to other points consequent upon these ? if christ be the eternal son of god in opposition to heathen deities , and we can know him by scripture to be so , then we may as well know him to be the eternal son of god in opposition to arians and socinians . if against the heathens we can prove from scripture , that the word was made flesh , why will not this as well hold against nestorians and eutychians ? and so the scripture becomes a very sufficient rule to distinguish light and darkness in such points among christians too . for , is it ever the less fit to be a rule , because both parties own it ? but they differ about the sense of it , and therefore controversies can never be ended by it . if church-history deceive us not , the greatest controversies were ended by it , before general councils were heard of ; and more than have been since . many of those we read of in the first ages were quite laid asleep , as theodoret observes ; but since church-authority interposed , in the most reasonable manner , some differences have been perpetuated , as appears by the nestorian and eutychian controversies . i do not blame the authority of councils , proceeding as they then did by the rule of scriptures , but the event shewed , that the most probable means , are sometimes very ineffectual for ending controversies . and those which men think will most effectually suppress heresies , do often give a new life and spirit to them . so vain are the imaginations of men about putting an end to controversies , till they do come to a certainty about the true sense of scripture . it is possible to stop mens mouths by force and power , but nothing brings men to a true satisfaction , but inward conviction as to the true sense of scripture ; and there can be no rational certainty as to these points without it . if controversies be not ended , let us not blame the wisdom of providence ; for god doth not always appoint the means most effectual in our judgment , but such as are most suitable to his own design . and we see reason enough to blame the folly and weakness , the prejudice and partiality , the wilfulness and obstinacy of mankind ; and till human nature be brought to a better temper , we may despair of seeing any end of controversies . men may dispute , and for all that i know , will do to the worlds end , about the method to put an end to disputes . for , the controversies about certainty and fatality have been always the matters of debate , among disputing men , under several names and hypotheses , and are like so to be to the general conflagration . iv. he saith , scripture is not our distinguishing rule of faith , but our own particular judgments about scripture ; for that which distinguishes my rule from that of the most abominable heresies , can only be my own judgment upon the letter of scripture , and wriggle which way i will , there it will , and must end at last . i wish mr. s. had been a little better conversant in the old disputes about certainty ; for it would have saved me the trouble of answering some impertinent objections ; such as this before us . for they would have been thought mean logicians , who could not put a difference between the rule of judgment , and the judgment which a man made according to the rule . suppose the question were about sense , whether that were a certain rule , or not , to judge by ; and epicurus should affirm it , and say he so firmly believed it , that he judged the sun to be no bigger than he seemed to his senses ; would not he have been thought ridiculous , who should have said , this fancy of epicurus was his rule ? the rule he went by was in it self certain ; but he made a wrong judgment upon it ; but that was not his rule . so it is here . we declare the scripture to be our only certain and standing rule , whereby we are to judge in matters of faith ; and we understand it as well as we can , and form our judgments by it ; but doth it hence follow , that our judgment is our rule ? we may be deceived in our judgments , but our rule is infallible ; we may differ in our judgments , but our rule is one and the same . and how is it possible for those who differ in judgment , to have the same rule , if our rule and our judgments be the same ? for then their rules must be as different as their judgments . i know not what modern logick mr. s. learnt ; but i am sure he learnt not this way of reasoning from the antient philosophers , who discoursed about the criterion after another manner than our great pretender to logick doth . v. he objects , that our people do not make scripture the rule of their faith , not one in a million relying upon it ; and therefore this pretence of mine , he saith , books like a meer jest ; and he cannot perswade himself , that i am in earnest , while i advance such a paradox . what doth j. s. mean , to call one of the articles of our church , a jest and a paradox ? for the words of our sixth article , are , holy scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation : so that whatsoever is not read therein , nor may be proved thereby , is not to be required of any man , that it should be believed as an article of faith , or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation . doth j. s. now take this for a paradox among us ? i assure him , i love not to make jests about scripture , nor matters of faith and salvation . but wherein doth this jest lie ? why , forsooth , i make the people to make scripture their rule , and not one in a million thinks of relying on it . have they then any other rule of faith , which they rely upon ? what is it , i pray ? is it the churches infallibility ? no. is it pius the fourth's creed ? no truly , while they are children , they believe tradition . now , i think , j. s. hath hit it . tradition is indeed a rule of faith for children ; who are very apt simply to believe their fathers and teachers . but suppose , they come to years of discretion , what rule of faith have they then ? have they a judgment of discretion then ? no ; this is another jest. for he supposes all our people to be a dull sort of animals , that understand nothing of scripture or faith themselves , ( i wonder then , that they make no more converts among them ) but trust their parson for all ; for , boves arabant & asinae pascebantur juxta eos ; therefore the people have no judgment of discretion ; i hope j. s. knows whose jest or rather argument that was . whatever he insinuates , as to our people , i have reason to believe far better of them ; and that all those who mind their salvation do seriously read , and consider the holy scriptures , as the rule of their faith. but if in matters of opinion , or in doubtful or obscure places , they make use of the skill , and assistance of their teachers , wherein are they to blame ? the scripture is still their rule , but the help of their teachers is for the better understanding it . and cannot our logician distinguish between the rule of faith , and the helps to understand it ? suppose now a mother or a nurse should quit honest tradition , as j. s. here calls it ; and be so ill inclined , as to teach children to spell , and to read in the new testament , and by that means they come by degrees to understand the doctrine which christ preached , and the miracles which he wrought , and from thence to believe in christ , and to obey his commands , i desire to know , into what these persons do resolve their faith. is it indeed into those who taught them to read ? or into the new testament , as the ground of their faith ? when they have been all along told , that the scripture alone is the word of god ; and whatever they are to believe , it is because it is contained therein . and so , by whatever means they come to understand the scripture , it is that alone they take for the rule and foundation of their faith. if a man were resolved to observe hippocrates his rules ; but finds himself uncapable of understanding him , and therefore desires a physicians help ; i would fain know , whether he relies upon the skill of his interpreter , or the authority of hippocrates ? it is possible his interpreter may in some doubtful and obscure places have mistaken hippocrates his meaning ; but however , the reason of his keeping to the rules is not upon the account of the interpreter , but of hippocrates . but suppose a college of physicians interpret hippocrates otherwise , is he bound then to believe his own interpreter against the sense of the college ? i answer , if a college of physicians should translate bread for cheese ; or by phlebotomy should declare was meant cutting of arteries , or of a mans throat , let them presume to be never so infallible , i would trust any single interpreter , with the help of lexicons and common sense against them all ; but especially , if i can produce galen , and the old physicians , who understood hippocrates best , on my side . this is our case , as to the people , about disputable points ; we do not set up our own authority against a church pretending to be infallible ; we never require them to trust wholly to our judgments ; but we give them our best assistance , and call in the old interpreters of the church ; and we desire them to use their own reason and judgment with divine assistance for settling their minds . if people be negligent and careless , and will not take necessary pains to inform themselves , which mr. s. suggests , we are not bound to give an account of those , who do not observe our directions . and i never yet knew the negligent and careless brought into a dispute of religion ; for in this case , we must suppose people to act according to the principles of the religion they own ; otherwise their examples signifie no more against our doctrine , than debauchery doth against the rules of hippocrates . but suppose , saith mr. s. that one of my own flock should tell me , that i have erred in interpreting scripture , he desires to know , what i would say to him . this is a very easie question , and soon answer'd . i would endeavour to convince him as well as i could . and is that all ? and what would j. s. do more ? would he tell him he was infallible ? i think not ; but only as honest tradition makes him so , and how far that goes towards it , i shall examine afterwards . well ; but suppose john biddle against the minister of his parish , and the whole church of england to boot , understands scripture to be plainly against a trinity and christ's divinity . and it is but fair for me to suppose him , maintaining his heresie against j. s. and let any one judge whether of us be more likely to convince him . he owns the scripture , and confesses if we can prove our doctrine from thence , he will yield ; but he laughs at oral tradition , and thinks it a jest for any one to prove such a doctrine by it . and truly , if it were not for the proofs from scripture , i do much question , whether any argument from meer tradition could ever confute such a one as john biddle . but when we offer such proofs , as are acknowledged to be sufficient in themselves , we take the only proper way to give him reasonable satisfaction . suppose he will not be convinced . who can help that ? christ himself met with wilful and obstinate unbelievers . and was this any disparagement to his doctrine ? god himself hath never promised to cure those who shut their eyes against the light. shall the believing church then have the liberty to interpret scripture against the teaching church ? who ever asserted any such thing ? we only say , that the people are to understand the grounds of their faith ; and to judge by the best helps they can , what doctrine is agreeable to scripture , and to embrace what is so , and to reject what is not : but among those helps we take in , not barely the personal assistance of their own guide , but the evidence he brings , as to the sense of the teaching church , in the best and purest ages . it is very strange , that after this , it should presently follow , 't is evident hence , that tradition of our fathers and teachers , and not scriptures letter , is indeed our rule ; and by it we interpret scripture . if this be so evident , then how is it possible , we should set up the ecclesia credens against the ecclesia docens ; as he charged us just before . if tradition be our rule , and we interpret scripture by it , what fault then are we guilty of , if tradition be such an infallible rule ? but , methinks , this hence looks a little illogically upon the premises ; and if this be his conclusive evidence , he must excuse me as to the making it a ground of my faith. but he allows , that we set up scripture as our rule , when we dispute against them ; but when that is done , we set up our own authority over the people , and do not allow them that priviledge against us , which we take against the church of rome . this is all the strength of what i can make out of that paragraph . for if all writing were like his , it would be the best argument for oral tradition ; his sense is so intricate , and his conclusions so remote from his premises . just before he said , 't is evident hence that we follow tradition . and presently , 't is as evident we do not follow it , and set up our own authority against it . we do interpret scripture by tradition ; and yet immediately , we set up scripture against tradition . we plead for the peoples right to a judgment of discretion ; and yet we do not allow them a judgment of discretion . what invisible links hath oral tradition to connect things , that seem so far asunder ? but however it be expressed or connected , his meaning is , that we only set up scripture against the church of rome , and then set up our own authority over the people . this is not possible , if we do allow them a judgment of discretion ; and this is one of the things he so much charges upon me ; and saith , he never read any protestant that puts matters more into private hands than i do ; and yet in the very next page , he saith , i deny the people the same priviledge against pastoral authority . how can i deny them such a priviledge , if i put matters into their hands above any other protestant ? i do not know , that i do in the least differ from the sixth article of our church ; nor do i take off from the due authority of bishops and pastors of churches . but all our dispute is , about this judgment of discretion , whether it be allowable to people , and how far . in his third letter he resumes this argument , and thither i follow him , that i may lay things together into some method . the words he cavils at , are , if we have the consent of all christian churches against the only pretended infallible judge , we have their consent likewise , that every man is to judge for his own salvation . what hurt is there in this ? it seems then nothing will content us now but infallibility . was there ever such an awkard man at reasoning ? it follows indeed , that either there must be an infallible judge , or every man must judge for himself . do i then allow no authority to church-governors , that do not pretend to infallibility ? yes , very much , while they do not pretend to impose on our faith , by a pretence to infallibility . but what occasion do i give for this , when i say only , that every man must judge for his own salvation ; and yet he had the conscience to leave this out in repeating my sense , but two lines after . may not you mistake or pervert to day , what you heard yesterday , when i find you mistaking or perverting my sense , but at two lines distance ? and then run on in a long discourse , as though you had taken the true sense of my words . is not this a fit person to play out mr. g 's game , who shuffles in so strange a manner , and so openly plays false cards ? where did i ever dispute against church-authority in due proposing matters of faith , provided that every man is to judge for his own salvation ? but i have , he saith , an aking tooth at the churches intermeddling in matters of faith. from whence doth this appear ? this must either arise from great ignorance , as to the right of judging every man hath as to his own salvation ; or from a malicious design , to expose me to all church-governors ; but i pity his ignorance , and despise his malice . what pleasant entertainment doth he make with the sober enquirer ? 't is pity ( saith he ) but he had a blew apron on , and a tub to hold-forth in ; as a sober enquirer may possibly find some pretenders to infallibility have done in their time. but what is the meaning of all this ado about a sober enquirer ? i had said many years ago , that the scriptures being owned , as containing in them the whole will of god so plainly revealed , that no sober enquirer can miss of what is necessary for salvation , there can be no necessity supposed of an infallible society of men either to attest or explain these writings among christians , any more than there was for some ages before christ , of such a body of men among the jews , to attest or explain to them the writings of moses and the prophets . and where lies the heresie or danger of this doctrine ? if i said that no sober enquirer can miss of things necessary to salvation in scripture , it is no more than st. chrysostom , st. augustin , aquinas , and other school-men , had said before me ; and were they for blew aprons and tubs to hold forth in ? nay , to shew how unskilful j. s. is in the writers of his own church , ( if they do own him ) even bellarmin himself grants as much as i say . for being to answer that place jam. . . if any man lack wisdom , let him ask it of god , who giveth liberally , &c. he answers , this is to be understood of sapientia necessaria ad salutem ; so then a sober enquirer praying to god to give him wisdom , shall not want that which is necessary to his salvation . and he quotes several passages of st. augustin to prove , that prayer obtains nothing infallibly but that which is necessary or useful to the salvation of him that prays . if this be then obtained infallibly , then we see an infallible ground of certainty , as to what is necessary or useful to salvation . bellarmin indeed saith , that a gift of interpretation is not to be had by prayer ; and , do i ever say it is ? did i ever give the least countenance to enthusiastick pretenders , or to the breakers of the laws and orders of our established church ? what means then these spiteful insinuations ? doth the man hope to raise himself by exposing me ? or to be caressed by f.p. and f. w. by the brave attempt of throwing dirt so plainly in my face ? which will never stick , being so unskilfully thrown , either to my prejudice , or his advantage . but this matter about the peoples judgment of discretion , must not be thus pass'd over . for , he resumes it at the end of his third letter , and thought it a good relishing bit to conclude with . and towards the very end , he begins to state the controversie , this true logician having forgotten it before , or reserved it for a disert at the last . to come closer ( saith he ) and take a more distinct view of this judgment of discretion . it was even time to come closer in the th . p. of the third letter . alas for mr. g. ! he is like to have a hopeful game of it , when his substitute talks at this rate at the very end of the game . but let us see what feats he will do now he comes closer . now he will acquaint me , how far he allows it , and far and how in what he rejects it . this is well ; but why no sooner ? he was at ' another game before , viz. two or three throws at the sober enquirer , and having knock'd him down with his blew apron and tub , he now comes to t. g's cards again . and let us see how well he plays them . first , he grants , that every man is to judge for his own salvation ; i. e. he yields what the sober enquirer aimed at , and now methinks he desires the blew apron and tub , to hold-forth himself . secondly , he saith , all mankind are agreed in it . it seems then the fanaticks are true catholicks in mr. s's opinion . thirdly , he yields , that every man is to judge of the best way to salvation , and of all the controversies between them and vs. now the tub is turn'd to a chair , and the holder-forth become a judge of controversies . nay , he goes so far as to say , the contrary tenet is ridiculous , as what 's most ; nay , that it is sottishness to hold it ; and to deprive mankind of this priviledge of judging thus , is to debar him of the light and vse of his reason , when it is most useful for him . is not all this very obliging ? but where now lies the difference ? why , truly , if his discretion leads him to the infallible rule of tradition , all is well ; but if not , it is no longer discretion . what ? has he been judge of all the controversies between us already , and is he to seek for his rule still ? what discretion had he all that time , to judge without a rule ! what a judge of controversies have we found at last ? methinks the sober enquirer far exceeds him in point of common discretion ; for he never pretended to judge without a rule , much less all the controversies between us. but this discreet judge of all controversies first determins all the points ; and when he hath done this , he finds out his rule . of all the judges of controversies that have been yet talked of , commend me to this set up by j. s. for , how is it possible for him to judge amiss , who had no rule to judge by ? you see ( saith he ) how we allow them the vse of their reason and judgment of discretion , till it brings them to find a certain authority , and when they have once found that , the same judgment of discretion which shewed them that authority was absolutely certain , obliges them to trust it , when it tells them what is christ's faith , without using their private judgments any longer about the particular points themselves thus ascertained to them , but submitting to it . to which i answer , i. the same reason which enabled men to find out this infallible guide , or certain authority will help them to judge concerning this authority , and the matters proposed by it . for , either he hath a rule to find out this authority , or he hath none ; if he hath a rule , it must be either scripture , or pure natural reason . if scripture , that only affords fallible certainty , he saith over and over , and so a man can never come certainly to this authority . and if the foundation be uncertain , what can the rule do ? but mr. s. doth not pretend scripture , but reason , for his infallible rule . then i demand , whether reason doth afford an infallible ground of certainty , as to this certain authority or not ? if it doth , we are yet but fallibly certain ; if it doth not , then what need this certain authority ; for in the opinion of all reasonable men , certain reason is better than certain authority . and he cannot deny the certainty of reason , who builds the certainty of authority upon it . ii. suppose the particular points proposed by this certain authority be repugnant to that certainty of reason , by which i am required to believe it : as suppose this authority tells me , i am no longer to rely upon my reason , but barely to submit , although the matter proposed be never so much against it ; what is to be done in this case ? i am to believe this certain authority on the account of reason , and that requires me to believe such things as overthrow the certainty of reason ; how is it possible for me to rely on this certain authority on the certainty of reason , when that authority tells me , there is no certainty in reason ? iii. must i believe reason to be certain just so far and no further ? but who sets the bounds ? hath god almighty done it ? when and where ? i may and ought to use my reason in searching after this certain authority , and judge all controversies in order to the finding it out ; all this is allowed ; but as soon as ever this certain authority is discover'd , then goodnight reason ; i have now no more use for you . but who bid you be so ungrateful to that certain reason , which conducted you so far ? it is very possible it may be as useful still , why then do you turn reason off so unkindly after so good service ? iv. are all people capable of this certain reason , or not ? it requires , it seems , a great deal of logick to prove this certain authority , or this infallible guide by reason ; and i am one of those that think it can never be done : suppose then , some of us duller people can never comprehend the force of this reason , which is to lead us to an infallible guide , what is like to become of us uncapable people ? are we all to be damned for dunces and blockheads ? no , not so neither : this is really some comfort . for then it is to be hoped we may go to heaven without finding out this certain authority ; and then we may have true faith without it . this is still better and better . and then i pray what need have i to find out this certain authority at all , if i may have true faith and be saved without it ? v. i have greater certainty by reason of the certain authority of scripture , than you can have of the certain authority of tradition . here is reason on both sides , and authority on both sides ; but i say there is no comparison between either the reason or the authority . the reason to believe the scripture , is so incomparably beyond the reason to believe oral tradition . and the authority of scripture hath so much greater force on the consciences of men , that it is very extraordinary among those who own scripture to be the word of god , to find them compared in point of authority . for , we must deal plainly in this matter ; the scripture we look on as the rule of our faith , because it is the word of god. if you do not own it to be so , but resolve all into tradition , we know what you are ; but if you do own the scripture to be of divine revelation , how can you pretend to set up any certain authority in comparison with it ? vi. if this certain authority be only to lead us into the certain sense of scripture , then it must be either into the sense of plain places , or of difficult and obscure : if of plain places , then it is to kindle a torch to behold the sun ; if of obscure places , then who hath appointed this certain authority to explain them ? who is to appoint such a certain authority in the church , to explain his word , but god himself ? and we desire to see some plain places , that set up this authority to explain those which are obscure and doubtful . we think it our duty to read and search the scripture , and especially the new testament , where we find very great occasion for this certain authority to be mentioned . we find churches newly settled , and many disputes and controversies started among them ; and those of great and dangerous consequence ; we find the apostles giving frequent advice to these churches with respect to these differences , and with great earnestness giving caution against seducers , and warning them of the danger of them ; but not one word can we find in all their epistles tending this way , or mentioning any certain authority they were to submit to , for the putting an end to all controversies . this is really a matter of so much concernment to the whole christian world , that if any such thing had been in the design of christianity , i can never believe that the apostles would have omitted it in their several epistles . had not they sufficient care of the certainty of mens minds , and of the peace of the church ? was it a secret concealed then from them ? or not thought fit to be communicated by them , when it was most necessary to prevent the early corruptions and errours of the christian churches ? but they are so far from it , that i cannot find any intimation to that purpose in all their writings , although they had the fairest occasions for it . vii . if men by certain reason have found out this certain authority , what are they to do with this certain reason afterwards ? methinks it is a little hard for ever to discharge so useful a servant immediately after so extraordinary a piece of service , as the finding out an infallible guide . we do not find the apostles directing the people not to make use of their understandings , because their guides were infallible . i am apt to think the apostles were as infallible as tradition or church-authority ever since ; and therefore what allowance was made by them to a judgment of discretion is still to continue . what doth st. paul mean to speak to the corinthians in such a manner , i speak as to wise men , judge ye what i say : how different is this from , i speak by an infallible spirit , and ye are not to judge what i say ? when he saith to the thessalonians , prove all things , doth he mean , swallow all things , and prove nothing ? when st. john saith , try the spirits , whether they are of god , doth he only mean , till they had found a certain authority ? did not they believe st. john's authority to be certain ? if not , to what purpose did he write this epistle to them ? if he did , he supposed them still to have a liberty of judging , even those who pretended to inspiration . for , many false prophets are gone out into the world . and there are certain rules and marks to judge of the pretences to an infallible spirit , which were in vain assigned , if they were not to judge by them . viii . suppose men differ about this certain authority , wherein it lies , and how far it extends ; are not they to exercise their reason still about this ? suppose some pretend , that it lies in an infallible assistance which christ hath promised to his church in all ages ; and others say , this is impossible to be a ground of faith , because it is it self an article of faith : must not a man exercise his reason about this ? here is certain authority pleaded ; but others say , there is certain reason against this pretence of certain authority ; and they must grant i must follow certain reason , though against certain authority . again , others say , the certain authority of oral tradition is a novel , vain and dangerous opinion , destructive of faith , and leading to heresie and atheism ; what is to be done in this case ? must our reason be quitted , and men not be allowed to judge of this authority by it ? yes , till they come to own it , and then they are to judge no longer ; i. e. put out your eyes once , and ye need never think of opening them after . be very circumspect in the choice of your way , till you come to a precipice , and when you are come there , be sure to throw your self from it headlong , and there is an end of controversies . but we do not judge this a very reasonable method ; but think he had much better keep upon plain ground , and use the best method he can to find the true way ; and if his judgment , will serve him to find the way to a precipice , we think it will much better serve him to keep him from it ; and that he had better bear with some imperfection of his sight , than put out his eyes that he may be the more quietly led , he knows not whither . there is only one thing more , which deserves to be taken notice of , about this argument , viz. that j. s. saith , i expresly exclude the churches help ; which is , as he triumphantly concludes his third letter , the first principle , nay the quintessence of all heresie , fanaticism in the egg , perfect enthusiasm when hatcht , and downright atheism when fledg'd . this is a parting blow indeed . it is the bite of an angry viper , at its last gasp , when it puts its utmost force into the venom , and hopes even dying to destroy . others love to conclude gently , but j. s. is a man by himself , and as though he were writing epigrams , would reserve his sting for the last . but what ground is there for all this venemous froth ? even just as much as there was for the author of pax vobis to say , that i am for introducing paganism ; or for another to make me the founder of anti-catholick , and anti christian doctrines , whereas i profess to own no other than what have been received in this church ever since the reformation . but some mens spleen and gall must have a vent lest it destroy them . it is some satisfaction to me to think that none but such , who either oppose or betray our church , set themselves thus to defame me ; and it is a great comfort to find such feeble reasoning , where so much spite and malice is discover'd . thus it is here , with j. s. he could merit nothing without giving me hard words , and because many look on the beginning and end of a book , who mind nothing else in it ; therefore he hath here put together as the consequence of my doctrine , no less than heresie , fanaticism , enthusiasm , and downright atheism . he thought he could not make my case equal with his own , unless i were charged with heresie , and principles leading to atheism . but he is charged by the most zealous catholicks , and in respect to his avowed principles ; but my charge here is by an enraged adversary ; and for such a doctrine which is owned by all men of understanding in both churches , and if i may name him among them , even by j. s. himself . my words are , if it be said , that the churches power will become explicit to any sober enquirer , then every such person may without the churches help find out all necessary points of faith. and where lies the heresie , the enthusiasm , the atheism of this doctrine , which i have already shewed was asserted both by fathers and school-men ? and j. s. himself grants , that every man is to judge for his own salvation ; and of the best way to his salvation , and of all the controversies between them and us , and especially of the true grounds of faith ; and all this without the churches help . and if he can do all this , i desire to know whether he cannot find out all necessary points of faith ? hath he indeed , resolved all controversies , and yet wants some necessary points of faith ? and hath he found out the churches authority too , without the churches help , and yet doth he want some necessary points of faith ? then it follows , that after the submitting to the churches authority , there are still necessary points of faith which may be wanting ; and then an absolute submission is not all that is required of one that hath found out the churches authority . but my whole argument there proceeds upon a supposition , viz. that if one may without the churches help find out the churches authority in scripture , then why not all necessary points of faith ? so that it goes upon a parity of reason ; and i see no answer at all given or pretended , but only he endeavours to stop my mouth with a handful of dirt. thus i have dispatched this long argument about the judgment of discretion . and i shall now sum up my answer in these particulars . i. every christian , as such , is bound to enquire after the true way to salvation , and hath a capacity of judging concerning it . ii. every christian proceeding according to the best rules of judging , hath reason to receive the scripture as the rule of his faith. iii. the scripture is so plain in all necessaries , and god hath promised such assistance to them , that sincerely seek it , that none who do so , shall want the knowledge of such things as are necessary to their salvation . iv. when any thing is offer'd as necessary to be believed in order to salvation , every christian hath a right and liberty of judging , whether it can be proved by the scripture to be so necessary or not . v. we do not allow to particular persons the same faculty of judging in doubtful points of controversie , which we do as to matters that immediately concern their salvation . vi. no pretence of infallibility or authority can take away that right of judging , which was allowed them by the apostles , whose authority was infallible . vii . this right of judging doth not exclude the churches due authority as to matters of faith and controversies of religion , ( as it is declared art. . of our church ) but all that we now plead for , is ( not any authority as to others ) but a right of judging as to themselves , in matters that concern their salvation . viii . the certainty of faith , as to them depends upon two things ; . the clearness of scripture about them , which implies the certainty of reason . . the promise of divine assistance which makes their faith divine , both as to its principle , its ground , and its effect . but i have not yet ended his objections about our rule of faith ; for vi. he objects , that we cannot necessarily resolve our faith into the writings of the apostles only . what is the meaning that we cannot necessarily resolve it ? i think we must resolve it into a written rule , till we see another proved . did the apostles when they went to convert the world , go with books in their hands , or words in their mouths ? doubtless , with words in their mouths . or were those words a jot less sacred , when they came from their mouths , than when they put them in a book ? not one jot . or lastly , doth any command from christ appear to write the book of scripture , or any revelation before hand , that it was to be a rule of faith to the future church ? no such matter ; and the accidental occasions of its writing at first , and its acceptation afterwards bar any such pretences . on the other side , their grand commission was not scribite , but only praedicate evangelium . i have given an account so lately of the reasons and occasions of writing the gospels and epistles of the new testament , that i need only here to give these general answers . i. whatsoever was done as to the writing the books of the new testament , was done by the immediate direction and appointment of the holy ghost . ii. the reason given , by the writers of the gospels themselves , is , that matters of faith might be delivered with the greatest certainty . iii. those writings were not intended only for the benefit of the church then being , but for future ages ; and thence the books of scripture were so received and esteemed in the primitive churches . iv. the most antient writers of the christian church assure us , that the apostles wrote the same doctrine they taught , and for that purpose , that they might be a pillar and foundation of faith. v. the most certain way we now have to know what doctrine the apostles taught is by their writings ; since they taught and wrote the same doctrine ; and we are certain we have the doctrine they wrote , but we have no other way to be certain what doctrine they taught . vii . he objects , that the question being put concerning the new testament's containing all divine revelations of christ and his apostles , i gave no direct answer , but shuffled it off to matters necessary to salvation . the setting out of this is the subject of some pages . to which i give an easie answer . the question concerning the new testament containing all the divine revelations of christ and his apostles , may be taken in two senses . . as relating to the entire object of faith ; and so the answer was most direct and plain , to the second question , that the rule , whereby we hold all the same doctrine , that was taught by christ and his apostles , is by the divine revelations contained in the writings of the new testament . for since we believe all that is there , and nothing but what is there , that must contain the entire object of our faith. and the word all must relate to that . . as to all those things which particular persons are bound to believe , as contained therein ; and so the question being put , about the vniversal testimony to assure us , i. e. all particular christians , that the new testament contained all the divine revelations of christ and his apostles : my answer was direct and apposite to this sense , viz. that the universal testimony of the christian church , as to the book of scripture , and the doctrine therein contained , is a sufficient ground to make us certain , i. e. all particular persons , of all matters necessary to our salvation . so that the substance of my answer lies in these three things . i. that all our faith is contained in scripture ; and thereby we hold all the doctrine taught by christ and his apostles . ii. that although all particular persons may not reach to the entire object of faith contained in scripture , yet they had thereby a certainty , as to all matters necessary to their salvation . iii. that the ground of certainty as to both these , was the universal testimony of the christian church , concerning the books of scripture , and the doctrine contained therein . the words of my letter are , we are to consider , that the scripture being our sole and entire rule of faith , all matters necessary to salvation , must be supposed to be contained therein ; and therefore the same testimony , which delivers the scripture to us , doth deliver all the necessary articles as contained therein . which are there received as in the lump ; and if we receive the book which contains all , we must by the same authority receive all contained in it . as if a purse be left to a man by his fathers will , full of gold and silver , and this by the executors be declared to contain all the gold and silver his father left him they who deliver this purse to him from the executors , do certainly deliver to him all the gold and silver left him by his father . but if he suspects there was both gold and silver left him by his father , which was not in that purse , then he must call in question the integrity of the executors , who declared that all was contained therein . this is now the case of the christian church , as to all divine truths which respect mens salvation ; the primitive church , who answer to the executors in the other case , did unanimously declare that all such truths were undoubtedly contained in the written word . although therefore there may be a real difference in the nature of the doctrines therein contained , as there is between gold and silver , yet he that receives all , must receive one as well as the other ; and the matters of salvation , being of greatest moment , they that receive the whole will of god upon grounds of certainty , must be assured that therein they receive all matters necessary to our salvation . never was any purse so rifled as this is by j. s. he examines not only the coin in it , but the very strings and linings of it . he is a dreadful man at ransacking a metaphor . he tells me , my similitude is so far from running on four legs , that it is in many regards lame on the right ( and indeed only ) foot it ought to stand on ; and which is worse , perhaps against my self . the sum of it amounts to this , that because scripture contains all , and protestants have scripture , therefore they have all . a strange kind of discourse ! as if , because they have it in a book , therefore they have it in their minds and souls , in which , and no where else faith is to reside . but was not the question put , whether we had all the points of faith which our saviour taught ? and how could i answer a question about all , but by shewing where we had all ? if all the doctrine of christ be there , we must be certain we have all , if we have the scripture which contains all . but it is not enough to have it in a book . i grant it . but still if you ask , where all my faith is contained ; i must refer you to that book which contains all. for i profess to believe every thing there , and nothing as a point of faith , but what is there . we do not pretend , that it is enough for persons to say , their faith is in such a book ; but we grant that they ought to read and search , and actually believe what ever they find in that book ; but still all points are not equally necessary to all persons that are therein contained , but all such as are necessary to salvation lie there open to the capacities of all who desire to know them . now this is one of the things j. s. finds fault with this similitude of a purse for , viz. that people think it is an easie thing to open , and as easie to come at the sense of scripture , as to take money out of a purse : 't is but plucking the strings , and the deed is done . and is this any disparagement to a rule of faith to be plain and easie ? if it were not so , it could not be a rule of faith for all persons . we do not say , that any person by opening the scriptures , may presently attain to the certain sense of all places of scripture ; but that which i assert , is , that no man who sets himself to read and consider the scriptures as he ought , and prays for wisdom from god , shall miss of knowing all things necessary to his salvation . but mr. s. is for mending the similitude , and truly he doth it after an extraordinary manner . he will allow the scripture to be a purse , provided the purses mouth were tied up with a knot of such a mysterious contrivance , that none could open it but those who knew the mind of the bequeather ; and that the church , to which it was left as a legacy , had knowledge of his mind , and so could open it , whilst others only perplexed themselves more while they went about it . the point then between us , is , whether the scripture were left only to the church to interpret it to the people in all points ; or whether it were intended for the general good of the whole church , so as thereby to direct themselves in their way to heaven ; and consequently , whether it may not be opened and understood by all persons in matters that are necessary to their salvation . one would think by the church of romes management of the scripture , keeping it so much out of the peoples hands , and talking so much of the danger and mischief that comes by it , that they did esteem it just as the old romans did the sybillin oracles , which were to be kept up from the view of the people , and only to be consulted in cases of great difficulty , and no farther questions were to be asked , but what the keepers of them declared to be their meaning , was to be so received without any farther examination . and this is the sense of the politicians of that church , concerning the scripture . but when they have written like divines , and have been driven to state the controversie truly , they have been forced to such concessions , as have overthrown the political hypothesis . for , i. they cannot deny , that the scripture was designed to be a certain and infallible rule of faith to all . this bellarmin proves in the beginning of his controversies ; where he shews at large , that the law was the rule in the old testament . to the law , and to the testimony . blessed are they that search thy commandments , &c. that in the new testament christ proves his doctrine by the scriptures , and refers the pharisees to the scriptures , and confuted the sadduces out of them . that the apostles direct christians to honour , and esteem , and to rely upon them . and then he proves , that a rule of faith must be certain and known ; and for the scriptures , he saith , nihil est notius , nihil certius . nothing is more known , nothing more certain . how can this be , if there be such mystical knots which tye it together , that none but the church-guides can unloose ? how can this then ever be so known , as to be a rule of faith to the people ? and not meerly a rule , but a most certain and safe rule . which is the greatest non-sense in the world , if it cannot be understood by those , who are to make it their rule . they may as well say , that algebra was a rule for masons and carpenters , and a jacob's staff for a taylor 's measure . but mr. s. hath beaten his brains so long about rules and rulers , and that which is ruled and regulated by them , that we must not expect that he should be tied down to cardinal bellarmin's notions ; and therefore i must consider what he saith , after above twenty years hard labour about these things . he tells me plainly , i quite mistake the meaning of the word rule . for ( saith he ) it speaks rectitude . no doubt a right rule doth . but still i mistake his meaning . how so ? there must be a rectitude in the rule . that is not it . what then ? it must be evident rectitude , i. e. evident to be right . not so . i hope we shall come at it at last . it is such an evident rectitude as preserves those who regulate themselves by it from obliquity or deviation , that is , in our case , from errour . and is this the wonderful mystery ? there wants but one word to make it past dispute , viz. who effectually regulate themselves by it . for regulating is an ambiguous word , and may be taken , either . for what a man takes and professes to be his rule which he is to act by ; so a ciceronian regulates himself by cicero , i. e. he declares his manner of speech to be the rule he orders his speech by . and yet it is very possible that such a man may use phrases which are not cicero's , for want of sufficient skill and care. . for what he doth in conformity to his rule . and so he doth regulate himself by cicero , who doth not in the least swerve from his manner of speaking . but cicero is the rule to both these . and so the question here comes to this , whether that can be said to be a true intellectual rule , which men through their own default , and not through any defect in the rule , may deviate from ? if a rule be in it self certain , and be certainly received for a rule , that is surely enough to make it a rule to a man ; but it is not necessary to the being of a rule , that a man can never deviate from it by his own fault . for , there is no intellectual rule can be assigned , but it is possible for a free agent to deviate from ; although he do at the same time profess it to be his rule . do not all christians agree the commands of christ to be an infallible rule of life ? and j. s. by his admirable logick will either prove this not to be a rule , or that it is impossible for men to sin. for , saith he , a rule speaks rectitude , and that such an evident one as preserves those who regulate themselves by it from obliquity or deviation . yes , saith he , this is very plain , those who regulate themselves by christ's rule , cannot sin ; i grant it , those who do effectually regulate themselves by it ; but others may profess this to be their rule , and the most infallible rule of life , and yet through their own fault may deviate from it . so here persons may own the scripture to be a most certain & infallible rule as to truth and falshood ; and they are sure while they effectually regulate themselves by it , they can never err ; but while they profess to do it , they may . so that all mr. s's subtilty vanishes into nothing , by so plain and easie a distinction . therefore i am still of the mind , that a rule of faith is that whereby we are to judge what we are bound to believe as to divine revelations . no , saith j. s. i ought to have said , it is that by which , while we follow it , we shall be absolutely secured from erring in faith. this follows from the rectitude of the rule , that while men keep to it , they cannot err ; but it doth not follow from the nature of the rule , that men must necessarily follow it . for is it possible for men to misunderstand a certain rule or not ? i. e. such a rule which if they truly follow , they shall be secured from erring : if not , then the rule must be plain and evident to all capacities , to such a degree , that they cannot fail in judging by it . if it be possible , then , although the rule be in it self certain and infallible , yet it is possible for men to err through such a mistake , and while they think they follow the rule , they may run into errour . and it is strange to me , that mr. s. in all this time hath not discerned the fallacy that hath misled him . if it hath really misled him , and not been set up by him , on purpose to confound and confute hereticks , as he tells the cardinals at rome . but one of that number hath fully proved , as i have shewed already , that the scripture was intended for a rule of faith to the people ; and then it follows from j. s. himself , that while they regulate themselves by it , they can never err. what reason then can be given , why such a rule of faith should be kept from them ? and the purse be tied up with so many mysterious knots , which are utterly inconsistent with the notion of a rule of faith. ii. they grant , that there is a great difference in the points contained in scripture ; of which some are allowed to be simply necessary to salvation ; as those which are required to baptism ; and bellarmin yields , that all these points are certainly contained in scripture ; and were the things which the apostles constantly preached to all people . who cannot be denied to have been capable of understanding these things , when they heard them preached ; and how could they lose the capacity of understanding them when they were written ? and if they might still understand them , then the scripture hath no such mysterious knots , but all points necessary to salvation may be understood by the people . so that as to these points of greatest importance , the scripture must be left as a legacy to all christians , and not only to the guides of the church . but j. s. craves leave to explain himself ; and it is great pity to deny it him . mistake me not , saith he , i do not mean scriptures letter is not clear in such passages as concern morality , or the x commandments ; nor in matters of fact , as the marks or signs of the messias foretold by the prophets ; ( methinks the mysterious knots should have been about prophecies , ) nor in parables explained by himself and such like ; but in dogmatical points or tenets , which are spiritual , and oftentimes profound mysteries , as a trinity , christ's godhead , the real presence of his body in the sacrament , and such like ; and in such as these our rule is not intelligible enough to keep the followers of it from erring . i answer , either the apostles preached these points to all persons as necessary to their salvation , or they did not . if not , how come they to be necessary to be believed now ? if they did , then the people were capable of understanding them when they heard them , and therefore may as well understand them when they read them . i do not mean the manner as to the trinity and incarnation ( as to transubstantiation , i know nothing in scripture about it either as to thing or manner ) but the revelation of such a doctrine . so that if these points be owned to be necessary to salvation , they must be so plain that men may understand their duty to believe them . for , that is the bound i keep my self within , that all things necessary to salvation , are so plain , that we may be certain of our duty to believe them ; but if not , we may err without prejudice to our salvation . mr s. asks what i mean by all things necessary to salvation . nothing but what all others do mean by it . did christ ( saith he ) teach any unnecessary points ? alas for him ! but are all points taught by christ , or written in scripture , equally necessary to the salvation of all people ? no , he saith presently after , that he will grant that fewer means than the knowledge of all christ taught , may suffice for the salvation of some particular persons . very well ; now i hope he will make something of the main business in hand , viz. to prove that absolute certainty of all that christ taught , is necessary to mens salvation , when he grants that some may be saved , without so much as knowing all that christ taught . to what purpose was all this heat about the certainty of our faith , as to all that christ taught , if at last some may be saved without so much as knowing it ? how doth mr. s. prove , that those some are only the ignorant people in the church of rome ; but that all ours are tied to no less than infallible certainty of all that christ taught . he would have done well , to have proved such a privilege for ignorance to have been limited to their communion ; and that no claim can be allowed as to the circumstances of any other particular persons . some few ( he saith again ) may be saved without the knowledge of such and such points , slender motives being enough for their circumstances . i thank mr. s. for this . it seems the point as to salvation is gained , unless particular persons among us can be proved to be none of these few . but where-ever they are , it seems they may be saved ; but i hope , not without true and saving faith ; whence it follows , that such faith hath no necessary relation to these high points ; and there is no need of infallible certainty , as to them , of all christ taught . one of these high points , is that of transubstantiation ; too high for me and thousands and millions besides , ever to apprehend , let us do our utmost ; nay we cannot apprehend ( such is our dulness ) that we can have any certainty , as to sense or reason , if we hold it . we hope therefore j. s. will enlarge his number , and not talk only of some few that may be saved without the knowledge of such deep mysteries ; we desire to be admitted into his number , for truly our capacities can never be stretched so far , as to comprehend the possibility of transubstantiation . suppose our motives be slender , yet they are such as move us to that degree , that we cannot overcome the reluctancies of sense , and reason , and revelation , and tradition against it . but mr. s. brings himself off with a salvo ; though all points are not necessary for every particular person , yet all of them are necessary for the body of the church , whose pastors are to instruct their children in them , and apply the efficacy of them to their souls , as their capacities admit , and exigencies require . it seems still they are not necessary to particular persons , but according to their capacities and exigencies , but they are to the body of the church . but how came they to be necessary to the body of the church ? for instance , the point of transubstantiation is a very deep point ; and although particular persons may be saved without believing it , yet i cannot understand how this deep point comes to be necessary , in any respect , for the body of the church . i hope j. s. will not deny this to be one of his necessary church-points : let him then shew , how it comes to be so necessary for the pastors of the church to instruct their children in it . my capacity , i assure him , will not reach to this , and therefore i hope i may be excused ; and in his own words , my mind is not capable of being cultivated by such elevating considerations . i do not believe there is any such danger of the flocks dying , or falling short of their full growth they might have had in the plentiful pasturage of the church , as j. s. elegantly speaks , if they do not believe transubstantiation , or any such deep points . but still we have no absolute certainty of our highest fundamentals . no ? we affirm the contrary ; and from absolutely certain grounds . it is absolutely certain , that whatever god reveals is true , and ought to be believed by us . and we are , as absolutely certain as scripture and reason can make us , that god hath revealed the fundamentals of our faith. but there is experience to the contrary . what experience ? that we are not certain ? we affirm that we are ; and who can tell best ? how comes mr. s. to know we are not certain when we say we are ? but all are not , as socinians , &c. what are they to us ? are not we certain , because some are not certain ? what pittiful reasoning is this ? is mr. s. certain of his infallible ground of certainty , oral tradition ? why do i ask such a question ? for very good reason ; because there are some not certain of it , and even in his own church ; but cry out upon it , as fallible , fallacious , dangerous , and destructive of faith , and leading to atheism . from whence it follows , on mr. s's . principles , that he cannot be certain himself , because others are not . nay , it is impossible he should have any certainty on his own grounds . for he can have no rule of certainty , as i shall evidently prove from his own words . a rule must have absolute certainty ; absolute certainty there cannot be where persons are left uncertain ; but there are many in the church of rome , that not only doubt of his rule of infallible certainty , but utterly deny it , and dispute against it . how is it then possible , for him to be certain of it on his own grounds ? but it is time to proceed to another objection against our rule of faith. viii . j. s. saith , we can be no more certain of our rule , than we are of the truth of the letter of scripture ; but we cannot be certain we have the right letter , unless we have a right translation , and that must be from a true copy ; no copy can be true , unless conformable to the original ; and if there be any failure in any of these , nay , if we have not absolute certainty of all these , we cannot have any absolute certainty of our faith. this objection , those of the church of rome , who believe scripture to be a rule of faith , ( though not the complete ) are concerned to answer , as well as we . for , the matters of faith contained in scripture are convey'd to their minds after the same manner . but mr. s. saith their case is different from ours . do not they make the vulgar translation authentick ? and will not the same objections then lie against all those who rely upon it ? let us see how j. s. clears this matter : . the canon of the books comes down , saith he , by the testimony of all christian churches , that are truly christian . and we say , the canon of the books comes down by the concurrent testimony of all christian churches , however differing in other things . and herein , i think , we have much the advantage . for , we do not except against the testimony of any christian churches ; nor condemn them as not truly christian till their cause be better heard and examin'd . . the doctrine of christ , saith he , transfused into the hearts of the faithful , both taught them how , and obliged them to correct the copy in those particular texts that concerned faith. what is this , but in plain terms to expose the scriptures to the scorn and contempt of atheists and infidels ? who would desire no better a concession than this , that the scripture hath been corrected in matters of faith , according to the faith of the church . if this be granted , it is impossible to prove that we have any true original texts , in matters of faith : for if the church did correct the copy in those particular texts , which concerned faith , according to the sense of the faithful ; then the church in every age might so correct it : and consequently we can never be sure , that the texts continue the same for any two ages together ; unless it be first proved impossible for the sense of the church to vary in any two ages ; or of those who think themselves bound to correct the texts . and i should be very sorry to have my faith rest upon such a slippery foundation . i will put the case , as to the arian controversie . how was it possible for the nicene fathers to have convinced the arians on such a supposition as this ? you alledge several texts of scripture , might they say , to prove the godhead of christ , and his equality with the father ; but how can we know that these were original texts , and not corrected by the guides of the church then , according to their own sense ? we do not deny that there were some leading men of this opinion , and having gained a party to themselves , they corrected the texts according to it : and therefore we can never be satisfied , that these were the original texts , because we can bring down a tradition of a contrary sense from the apostles times . i do not see what satisfaction they could ever receive , if this pernicious principle be allowed , that the texts were to be corrected in matters that concern faith , according to the sense of the church . but he saith it is , if any errour , through the carelesness , unattentiveness , or malice of the translators , or transcribers at any time had crept in . this doth not one jot mend the matter . for if the faith of the present church be the rule , then the texts are to be corrected according to it , and the blame to be laid on the carelesness or malice of translators and transcribers . this is a miserable account of the certainty of texts of scripture in points of faith ; as to other texts of inferiour concern , as he speaks , they could be best corrected , by multitudes of other ancient copies , the churches care still going along , as was shewn in the highest manner , by the council of trent , that so it might be as exact as human diligence could well render it . as to multitudes of copies they serve us as well as them ; but as to the care of the council of trent , i am by no means satisfied . for . they went no farther than a translation , and declared that authentick ; without due regard to the original text. . the care taken was not so exact ; for then clemens the eighth did great injury to sixtus the fifth , when he recalled and corrected his bibles in so many places after sixtus the fifth , had published his for an exact edition . . there are still complaints in the church of rome of want of exactness in the vulgar latin. . after all this is but human diligence , and no such absolute certainty , as j. s. requires from us . but it may be , he will say , that he doth not at all make it his rule of faith ; let him declare so much ; and then we know what to answer . this is still putting off . therefore i will give a distinct answer . i. we do utterly deny that it is in any churches power to correct original texts , because they contradict the sense of the present church ; or any translations any farther , than they differ from the originals . and i do not know any assertion that shakes more our faith , as to the scripture , than this of j. s. doth . ii. the early appeals made to scripture in matters of faith , by the writers of the christian church , make us certain that there could be no such alterations or corrections of the texts , according to these use of the correctors . as for instance , we find the places produced against the arians used before against the samosatenians and artemonites . if it be said , they might correct the fathers to i answer , that there is no imaginable ground for any such suspicion ; because the fathers lived in distant places and countries , and therefore when their testimonies agree about some places of scripture alledged by them , there can be no reason to suspect any corruption or alteration of the text. as for instance , no one text of the whole new testament , hath been more suspected than that of s. john . . there are three that bear record in heaven , &c. and it cannot be denied , that there hath been great variety , both in the greek and latin manuscripts about it ; yea , there was so in s. jeroms time , as appears by his preface to the canonical epistles ; who charges the leaving it out to the unfaithfulness of the translators . s. jerom is cried out upon as a party in this controversie , and therefore it is said on the other side , that he put it in as favouring his own opinion . but his integrity is vindicated herein , because s. cyprian so long before the arian controversie produced this place . so that our certainty as to scripture doth not depend upon the meer letter , but upon comparing the best and most antient copies , with the writings of the fathers , who still made use of the scriptures in all discourses and debates about matters of faith. iii. the variety of readings in matters that are not of faith , cannot hinder our certainty in matters of faith. we do not pretend , that there is no kind of variety in the copies of the new testament ; but i am of opinion that this rather establishes than weakens our faith. for , considering the great multitudes of them , and how insignificant they are , it shews that this book was liable to the common accidents of books ; but yet , that there is no such variety , as to make one suspect any fraud or design in the alterations that appear in the manuscript copies . and as to translations that have been made among us , the people who are not able to examin them by the originals , have no reason to suspect them , as to any matter of faith. not meerly from the skill and integrity of the persons , and the care that hath been taken , but because it was so much the concernment of some men to have lessen'd the credit of our translations , as much as was possible , and they have not been able to produce any thing that might shake the faith of a considering man. if it be said after all , this is but human faith , and not divine ; i answer , iv. we must be careful to distinguish the certainty of human and divine faith in this matter . we do not pretend that we have an absolute divine certainty of things that are only capable of human certainty ; and we do not say , that we have only human certainty of things capable of divine certainty . if the question be put concerning the objects of divine faith , then we do answer , that we have a divine certainty of them from those things , which are the proper evidence of divine revelation . we believe the doctrine of christ with a divine faith , because it was confirmed by miracles and prophecies : we believe the new testament to be written by the holy spirit , because the promise of the spirit was fulfilled upon them ; and especially in a thing of so great concernment to the whole christian church . but if the question be asked only concerning a matter of fact , as whether the books that bear such names were written by the persons , whose names they bear ; then i can have no greater certainty than belongs to a matter of fact ; but then it is so circumstantiated , that i have a greater and more absolute certainty , as to this , then any other matter of fact which wants the proofs that this hath . and if as to books , and copies , and translations , we have as high a certainty , as the thing is capable of , it is madness to expect and require more . for where there is but a human testimony , there cannot be the certainty of divine faith , which must not only have a divine object , but must rest on a divine testimony ; but where the testimony is human , the certainty must be such as relates to the highest of that kind . but still , such a faith may have absolute certainty of its kind ; and although in regard of its testimony it be human faith , yet in regard both of its object , its inward cause , and its effects , it may be truly called divine . ix . the last objection is , concerning the number of canonical books . pray satisfie us ( saith mr. s. ) about this exact number of books ; and how many will just serve turn . one would think by his objections , j. s. were preparing matter for the critical history of the new testament , he seems so concerned to lessen the authority of it . but i shall answer the objections he offers . . there may have been books lost that were written by persons divinely inspir'd , and we have no unanimous consent of the christian church that there is none lost ; and those books might contain matters different from , or to be superadded to the canon we have now ; and without this , we can have no certainty , that the books we have now , contained all the divine revelations . i answer , i. if we have the unanimous consent of the christian church , that we have the canon of the new testament entire , then we have their consent , that there is no book , written by divine inspiration , lost . and this appears by the contest in the iv. century , about the just number of the canonical books ; the churches then differ'd about some books not then universally receiv'd ; as the apocalypse in some , and the epistle to the hebrews in others . which shews , that the churches were then so solicitous to preserve any books that appear'd to be written by persons inspir'd , that although these did then want universal consent , yet they were still kept , and read , and dispers'd , till upon further examination they came to be universally read . it is not therefore in the least probable they should suffer any apostolical writings to be lost . ii. this is to charge the christian church with so gross a neglect , as overthrows the force of all his arguments for tradition . for we must suppose an apostolical writing sent to some church by direction of the holy spirit , and yet that church be so notoriously careless , as to lose a book containing in it many points of faith ; now i appeal to any one of common sense , whether he could trust their word for matters of faith , who could be so negligent as to lose a great many points of faith at once . and the more such a book were dispersed , the argument is still stronger against tradition . besides , this shews the great insufficiency of oral tradition , if these points of faith are lost ; because such a book was lost , wherein they were contained . if tradition had been so effectual a means of conveying matters of faith , it should have appear'd in such a case , viz. in preserving such matters of faith , though the books were lost : but we find nothing like this , so much as pretended . although it were much easier pretended than proved . iii. this is to suppose the providence of god not to be immediately concerned in preserving books written by divine inspiration . mr. s. doth really suppose that books written by divine inspiration may have been lost , or at least that we cannot prove that they are not : but we think it a considerable proof , that they could not , because the divine providence doth so immediately concern it self in preserving that which tends so much to the good of his church . if a hair doth not fall from our heads , nor a sparrow fall on the ground , without the providence of god ( as our saviour affirms ) is it not very unreasonable to suppose that a divine book , written for the benefit of the christian church , should be wholly lost ? especially considering the extraordinary care the first christians took , in times of the greatest persecutions , to preserve the scriptures ; and no force or violence could extort them out of their hands . on mr. s's supposition , it was no hard matter for a book of scripture to be lost , viz. if the several books had been committed to the custody of some men in trust for the whole church ; but if we consider the things as they really were , it will appear hardly possible . for the books were not kept up at first in a few hands , but dispersed abroad in multitudes of copies , and received with mighty veneration both on the account of the authors of them , and the matters contained in them . they were read both in publick and in private , they heard them in their assemblies , and they made them their constant imployment at home ; they were their rule of life , as well as of faith. and how is it possible to suppose any book so received , so esteemed , so dispersed , so constantly read , could be suffer'd to be lost among christians ? if it be objected , that they were not all so esteemed at first , as appears by the epistle to the hebrews , and therefore might more easily be lost ; i answer , that however they were not universally received at first , yet they were by those churches to whom they were written ; and among them they were not kept up , but mightily dispersed ; so that there was no way to lose them , from the first spreading of them abroad ; unless we can suppose such multitudes of christians to conspire together to suppress a book of so great concernment to themselves . as if persons who claim an estate by virtue of some deeds , should all agree to imbezel them , or any material part of them . here was no pretence for registers and abridgments , which some make use of to lessen the authority of the books of the old testament ; for here we have the very authentick writings of the apostles , and their own epistles in their own style and expressions . and supposing the churches , to whom they were sent , to have received them as their writings , and to have communicated them to others , as they did , i do not see , under these circumstances , how a book , containing divine revelations , could be lost . ii. he objects , that the canon of scripture was not entire , but deficient for some hundreds of years , till the whole canon was collected and acknowledged , and therefore so long the church had no perfect rule of faith. i answer , i. i distinguish between a compleat rule of faith , and a compleat canon of scripture . for , if the books owned and universally received , contain in them all matters of faith , then the rule of faith is compleat , although some particular books may be still in dispute . as for instance , it is certain , that in st. jerom's time , the church of rome did not receive as canonical the epistle to the hebrews ; had not that church therefore a compleat rule of faith ? if god hath so abundantly provided for his church , that there may be a full revelation of all points of faith in the rest , then the disputing the authority of such an epistle , doth not derogate from the compleatness of the rule of faith. for , if they have all points of faith , they must have a compleat rule of faith. ii. it is no prejudice to the true canon of scripture , that some particular books of the new testament were for some time disputed by some particular churches . for , if it were done without ground , it doth reflect more on those churches than on those books ; especially when those very churches afterwards received them . and this was the case of the church of rome , as to the epistle to the hebrews : st. jerom affirms , that not only the greek churches all received it , but that all the ancient writers did so ; and not meerly as an ecclesiastical , but as a canonical epistle . therefore this must be a late thing in the church of rome ; and in probability , began upon the novatian controversie , which epistle was thought too much to favour the novatian doctrine ; and when that controversie did abate , that epistle recovered its authority in the church of rome . but mr. s. is angry with me , for reflecting on the church of rome for not receiving the epistle to the hebrews in st. jerom 's time ; which ( he thinks ) was an act of prudence , antecedent to the judgment or determination of any church , whether greek or latin. one may see by this how well versed he is in the canon of scripture , when st. jerom declares , that not only all the greek writers received it , but all the ancient , and that as canonical . was here no antecedent judgment of the church in this matter ? doth not the consent of all ancient writers , even in st. jerom's time , make a judgment of the church ? but he adds , that what i make a heinous crime in the church of rome , was a commendable caution in it . that which i said , was , that it hence appear'd , that the church of rome was far from being believed then to have the authority of making the canon of scripture , or being infallible in faith. and what saith j. s. in answer to this ? not one syllable , but runs it off to another thing . but why do i not as well blame the greek churches for not receiving the apocalypse ? they do not pretend to such authority and infallibility in this matter , as the church of rome doth . i do not deny that there were some greeks then to blame in rejecting the apocalypse , but bellarmin saith , they were but few and obscure persons ; and he produces the testimonies of justin martyr , irenaeus , theophilus antiochenus , melito sardensis , dionysius alexandrinus , clemens alexandrinus , origen and athanasius , all approving it . and the occasion of disputing it arose from the millenary opinion , which some thought they could not confute , as long as the apocalypse had such authority in the church . and such disputes as these , which wore off by degrees , are no real prejudice to the canon of the new testament , which was at first generally received ; and although some few books were contested for a time , yet they recover'd their authority , and have ever since been received by the universal consent of all christian churches . iii. he objects against this universal consent , the testimonies of marcion , ebion , valentinus , cerinthus , and epiphanius his other hereticks , who rejected the canon of the new testament . could any man but j. s. make such an objection as this ? but he had a mind to bring me in as a favourer of all hereticks ; and , as such another man of integrity hath done , of all anti-catholick and anti-christian doctrines . but where have i given any occasion for such spiteful reflections ? all that i said , was , we have the universal consent of all christian churches for the canon of the new testament , i. e. of all since the time , that the epistle to the hebrews was receiv'd in the latin , and the apocalypse in the greek churches ; notwithstanding all the divisions they have since fallen into , yet they had no difference as to the canon of the new testament . and this i insisted on as the ground of our certainty , viz. the unanimous consent of all the great bodies of christians , that have continued under different denominations to this day . to this he gives no other answer , but that my answer to the fifth question , is co-incident with that to the fourth . i thought j. s. in the self-evident way , would have liked my answer the better for it . but he doth not comprehend the design of it . i had said before , that we relied on the universal testimony of the christian church ; upon that the question was asked , what i meant by the christian church : my answer was , that it was that which was made up of all christian churches ; i. e. saith j. s. that all the parts make the whole ; and what incongruity is there ? when mr. g. said , that the christian church may be taken in several latitudes , he desired to know in what sense i took it ; and could i answer him more directly than to tell him , i took it in the largest sense , as it was made up of all the parts ; and not in such a sense as they do , who give the denomination of the whole to a part ? but by this i do not seclude all hereticks . i do not take upon me to judge of all the bodies of christians in the world , whether they be justly charged with heresie or not ; but i take them only as christians , and from their universal consent , i prove the certainty of the canon of scripture . hereby i profess a brotherhood with excrementitious outcasts . i know not what brotherhood lies in making use of their testimony ; but i had rather do it , than with unsufferable pride and folly call so many bodies of christians ; for whom christ died , excrementitious outcasts . but although he seems to own that their testimony doth strengthen the evidence for the canon of the new testament ; yet he calls it back again , and for extraordinary reasons . . they may have corrupted the letter of scripture , although they may allow of the books . let us then take their testimony for the books , and examine the letter afterwards . . this vniversal testimony must reach to each chapter and verse ; but we must have assurance not only of each verse , but of each significant word in the verse . how hardly are some men satisfied about the certainty of scripture ! are there not different copies in all parts to examin and compare , if there be cause of mistrust ; and if there be none , what prejudice is this to our certainty ? at this rate , men may argue against every thing ; and that there can be no certainty of any writing , unless the person stood by and saw the author write ; and even then he might question his senses too . these objections do indeed lead to an incurable scepticism in the church of rome . . the judges suspect the justness of the cause , if known knights of the post are called in to corroborate the evidence . what a desperate cause is that , which forces men to fling such dirt in the face of so many christian churches ? and that without the least evidence or proof against them . how come all the greek , abyssine , coptick , oriental christians , to be compared to knights of the post , because they afford a concurrent testimony with us about the canon of the new testament ? they may be the honestest and best part of christendom , for any thing j. s. knows ; and what justice can there be in such uncharitable censures ? it is not enough for you to say , they are all accounted hereticks or schismaticks by you ; for we that know how unjust and unreasonable your censures are so near home , have no cause to regard them at such a distance . thus i have answered all the objections i have met with in j. s. against our rule of faith. i now come to the last part of my task , which is to examin the arguments produced to prove the infallibility of oral and practical tradition . the main argument is thus set down by mr. s. all traditionary christians believe the same to day which they did yesterday , and so up to the time of our blessed saviour ; and if they follow this rule , they can never err in faith , and therefore are infallible . and they could not innovate in faith , unless they did forget what they held the day before , or out of malice after it . all the parts of this argument mr. s. endeavours to shew to be self-evident ; but in truth it is a self-evident fallacy ; as i shall shew at large . but before i particularly lay it open , i must consider what he saith against the method i used in the conference for answering it . i then thought , and do still , that the clearest answer to an argument , which proves a thing impossible was to bring an undeniable instance that such a thing really was , which was proved impossible to be . and to this purpose i produced the instance of the greek church , which professed to follow tradition , and yet they could not deny to have erred . this mr. s. saith , is giving no answer at all ; for this is no answer to his argument , but producing a new argument against him . and he magisterially tells me , that it is my turn to answer ; and therefore i am confined to concedo , nego or distinguo : as the propositions are either true , false or ambiguous , or i may deny the inference , if i find more terms in the conclusion than in the premisses . but these are my bounds which i must not exceed . but with submission to these logicians , i answer , that where an argument is designed to prove a thing impossible , which is contrary to sense and experience , the producing an evident instance is the plainest and shortest way of answering ; as well as in an induction which is allowed to be disproved by a plain instance . as in the case of zeno's argument against motion ; diogenes his moving was a far more effectual answer , than if he had stood a great while with his concedo , nego and distinguo . j. s. confesses , that the vanity of zeno 's argument was not ill ridiculed by diogenes his moving before him . and why might not i then expose the vanity of this demonstration by the instance of the greek church ; unless some fault be found in the instance . he brings the argument , and i an instance against it , what are people the wiser ? and which shall they be for ; the argument or the instance ? zeno brought his argument , and diogenes his instance ; were not by-standers the wiser , when it so apparently proved the foppery of the argument ? doth j. s. think the vanity of it was not enough exposed by that means ? but he saith , this is excepting against the conclusion , when there lies none against the premisses . no such matter ; for it shews there is a fallacy in the premisses : it is however but an argument , ad hominem ; call it what you will , so it doth my business ; to shew the vanity of the demonstration . this way doth but sham an adversary . and truly that is a great matter , if they be such as p.g. they are of no use for discovery of truth . as much as laying open sophistry helps to the discovery of truth ; which is not a little when we deal with sophistical disputers . but we come to the instance . how doth he after all clear this instance of the greek church ? doth he deny that they hold to tradition ? no. doth he deny that they have erred notwithstanding ? all that he saith is , that p. g. was no ways obliged not to deny that the greek church had erred in points of faith. no ? then he must grant that the roman church hath erred , for they contradict each other . let him take his choice ; one doth my business as well as the other , and more effectually destroys the pretence of infallibility in the roman church . but i say , they did not err . what is my saying to the business in hand ? besides , there are other points contradictorily held between the greek and roman churches , besides that of the filioque and the argument holds as well in any other , as in that . and therefore he must fix the errour on one side or other . after all this flourishing he takes heart , and resolves to grapple with the instance . let us see what your instance will do . now i thought we shall have a direct answer . but i am strangely disappointed . for he runs still back to that , that i do not believe it erred . was the instance brought against me , or against p. g ? but his answer doth not make or marr the business . the business of the demonstration it doth , and that was my business . but this doth not prove that a church going upon tradition errs , unless i will grant that the greek church hath erred . what strange trifling is this ? the dispute was about p. g's . argument , and not my opinion . is this the answer to the instance about the greek church which mr. m. promised ? if this pass for an answer , i think j. s. may defend sure footing . i mentioned p. g's . answer , that the greek church followed tradition till the arians left that rule , and took up a new one . and why saith j. s. hath he not answered well ? because he did not answer to the purpose ; which was not about the arians , but the present greek church . but a church may follow tradition at one time , and leave it at another . very true ; but the greek church did not forsake tradition , and yet erred . and therefore tradition and errour were found together , and therein lies the force of this undeniable instance . the rest is such trifling , that i am really ashamed to answer it over and over . still he attempts to give an answer , and still fails ; but it is something new , and therefore shall be considered . his answer , saith j. s. holds as well as to the present as past greek church . his answer ! where is it ? it was that those who err in faith must leave tradition . but the greeks did not leave tradition , and yet erred in faith ; so that the instance holds good still . he denies that errour and tradition can be found together in the greek church , or any other ancient or modern , i. e. the conclusion must be held against all the instances in the world. but i ought to say , whether the differences were in matters of faith. yes , in such which the church of rome accounts matters of faith. but how can an erring church still plead tradition and adhere to it ? answer the instance ; for the greek church doth plead tradition . but then pleading tradition is no more but quoting some expressions of ancient writers , as the arians did : not so neither ; for the greek church relies most upon tradition from father to son in practise of any church in the world. but if they adhere to tradition , and that tradition leads them to christ , who could not err , how can they possibly err ? for , pray did christ teach any errour ? no certainly . when a father believed what christ taught him , and the son what the father believed , did not the son too believe what christ taught ? run it on to the last son that shall be born in the world , must not every one believe what christ taught , if every one believed what his father believed ? and so goodnight to the greek church ; we are come back to the argument . i might as well have instanced in the latin church it self . truly i think so too ; and so you shall find in a short time ; and how little advantage you get by such a challenge . but it is impossible for a church to adhere to tradition , and yet to err ; therefore if the present greek church have erred , it has not adhered to tradition ; if it have adhered to tradition , it hath not erred . that is , the argument must be good , let the instance be what it will. but an easie distinction will shew the weakness of this argument . adhering to tradition may be taken two ways . i. for adhering to tradition , as the rule and means of conveyance of matters of faith. ii. for actually adhering to that very doctrine which christ taught , and hath ever since been truly convey'd down by tradition . in this latter sense we grant it impossible for men to err , while they actually adhere to that very doctrine which christ taught , and is supposed to be deliver'd down by tradition . but this is not the matter before us ; which lies in these two points . i. whether tradition be an infallible way to convey the doctrine of christ down to us . ii. whether it be impossible for those who hold to this as their rule , to err or not . and so the answer is plain to the main argument . if by traditionary christians , be meant such as adhere to that very doctrine which christ taught , and was actually conveyed down to them , then such traditionary christians , so believing , cannot err. but if by traditionary christians be meant such as take tradition for an infallible rule of conveying all matters of faith ; then we say such traditionary christians may and have erred : and that for two reasons . i. because tradition is no infallible rule . ii. because although it were , yet men might err , either by mistaking it , or departing from it . but saith j. s. they cease to be traditionary christians if they do not believe the same to day which they did yesterday , and so up to christ. if by traditionary christians be meant , they do not really believe what christ taught , we grant it , that they are . if by traditionary christians be meant such as bear the name of traditionary christians , and look on tradition as their rule , and imagine they have the same faith which christ taught ; then they are still traditionary christians . and now i am to give a clear and distinct answer to the demonstration of the infallibility of oral tradition , as it is managed by j. s. and taken into propositions . i. all traditionary christians believe the same to day which they did yesterday , and so up to the time of our blessed saviour . j. s. hopes i have nothing to say to this ; but he is mistaken . for i have many things to say to lay open the notorious fallacy of it in every clause . i. all traditionary christians . who are they ? are all christians traditionary christians ? this were to the purpose , if it could be proved . but how doth this appear ? why is it not said , all christians have gone upon this principle ? he knew this could never have been proved . and therefore he puts in the thing in dispute , and would have it taken for granted , that there were no other but traditionary christians . which i deny , and i am certain he can never prove it . suppose then that there were christians not traditionary as well as traditionary , the proposition appears ridiculous ; so far is it from demonstration . traditionary christians believed so ; non-traditionary christians believed otherwise ; and which are to be believed , is the question ; and that to be determined by the certainty of the ground they went upon ; and so we are come to the debate between scripture and tradition . ii. all traditionary christians believe the same to day which they did yesterday . this is capable of a threefold meaning . i. that they do actually believe the same to day which they did yesterday . which is a meer contingent thing , and proves nothing . or , ii. that they are bound to believe to day , as they did yesterday . and that may be on several accounts . i. because they see evidence from the word of god to day as well as they did yesterday . ii. or because their guides of the church teach them the same to day which they did yesterday , whom they believe to be infallible . iii. or , meerly because they receive it by an oral tradition , and not on the other accounts ; and then it proves no more than that they are bound to do it ; and it is too well known that many fail to do what they are bound to . or iii. that they do infallibly believe the same to day which they did yesterday . but then this ought to have been inserted in the proposition , that traditionary christians cannot fail to believe to day what they did yesterday . if it be said , that this is implyed in their being traditionary christians , then i say , the whole is a fallacy of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for he supposes all true christians to be traditionary christians , and then that they infallibly hold to tradition as their rule , and from thence he proves tradition to be infallible . but if the body of christians may go upon another rule , or if going upon tradition , they may misunderstand it , then there is no inseparable connexion in the several links of this chain . and there is a further fallacy in supposing that if any change in faith happens , it must be as sudden and remarkable , as if all men should to day refuse to believe what they believed yesterday . whereas the changes of opinions are oft-times wrought by insensible degrees , and many concurrent causes ; and sometimes the very same words may be used and the faith altered , as in the case of merit , sacraments , sacrifice , &c. which sheweth men may continue the very same terms , and yet believe quite a different thing . and where changes are gradual , it is very unreasonable to pitch upon such a precise and narrow space of time , as between to day and yesterday . by the same method , one may demonstrate it to be impossible that any language should be changed ; for people speak the same language to day which they did yesterday and the same yesterday which they did the day before , and so up to the very building of babel ; and yet we all know that languages are continually changed , and to such a degree , that in some ages they cannot understand , what was at that time intelligible by all . in such cases , it is enough to assign the general causes and reasons of alterations without fixing a precise and determinate time. and those i shall speak to afterwards . iii. and so up to the time of our blessed saviour . to prove any thing from hence it must be shewed , i. that there can be no pretence to tradition taken up without ground ; for if there may , it can by no means follow , that if men pretend to tradition , that tradition must run up to the time of christ. but then they cease to be traditionary christians . what then ? not in pretence , for they may call themselves so still ; but in reality they are not . ii. that if men lay claim to a rule they must always observe it . we do not pretend to it as to the scripture : and what reason is there for it as to tradition ? but if men may pretend to follow tradition , and do not , then from their being traditionary christians , it can by no means follow that this tradition must be carried up to the time of our blessed saviour . ii. the second proposition is , and if they follow this rule , they can never err in faith. this is palpably self evident , saith j. s. so say i too , but it is only to be a meer fallacy . to follow this rule is to believe the same to day which they did yesterday , and so up to christ , or downwards : if they did this from christs time , and so forwards , they must continue to believe the same to the end of the world. if they really believe the same doctrine which christ taught , no doubt they cannot err . but the question is , whether this be an infallible rule for us to judge , they could never mistake in this rule , nor follow any other : for if either of these could happen , the demonstration is lost . if it were possible for errors to come in some other way , or for persons to misapprehend the doctrine delivered ; then it is not possible for us by this way to be convinced they could not err . the latter i have already spoken to ; i shall now shew that there were some other ways that errors might come in . and here i shall pass over the common infirmities of human nature , which i think oral tradition can never cure , and which leave men always lyable to error ; but i shall name some more particular ways of introducing them . i. by the authority of false teachers . and for this i shall not run back to the false apostles and seducers in the apostles times and afterwards ; but i shall bring a present instance in the church of rome ; and that is of michael de molinos , a person solemnly condemned at rome , aug. . of this year for propositions taken out of his books and owned by himself , as the decree saith ; which are there said to be heretical , erroneous , blasphemous , offensive , rash , seditious , and contrary to christian discipline . this man is said to have had thousands of disciples in italy , in the very heart of the traditionary church . now , i desire j. s. to inform me , if tradition be infallible , and that be the way followed in the church of rome , how it was possible for such multitudes to be deceived in matters of such consequence ? to say they were not deceived , is to expose the authority of the guides of the church of rome to the greatest contempt ; to say they were deceived , is to own , that notwithstanding tradition , a single priest may gain such authority , as to deceive thousands ; and where lies then the infallibility of tradition ? ii. by enthusiasm , or a pretence to immediate revelation . for this i shall not produce the old instances in ecclesiastical history , as of montanus , asclepiades , theodotus , manichaeus , arius , aetius , &c. who all pretended to revelations for their particular opinions . but i shall keep to the late instance of molinos , who asserts , that the perfection of a christian state lies in a simple , pure , infused and perfect contemplation , above the vse of ratiocination or discursive prayer , and that in order to this , nothing is so necessary as self-annihilation . this doctrine is now condemned at rome ; but how came it into the church ; did not they believe the same to day which they did yesterday ? if there were oral tradition for it , how came it to be condemned ? if not , then notwithstanding oral tradition , dangerous doctrines may get in under a pretence of a more sublime and spiritual way of perfection , than is to be attained in the dull and heavy way of tradition from father to son. iii. by a pretence to a more secret tradition . and thus christianity was at first corrupted , by such as pretended that there was a mystical doctrine delivered by christ of a more purifying nature , than the plain and common doctrine taught to all people by the apostles . so hegesippus in eusebius affirms , that the christian church was corrupted by this means ; and to the same purpose irenaeus . so that tradition was so far from securing the church from error , that it was the means of bringing it in . and the publick tradition could not hinder this coming in of error , because the secret tradition was pretended to be more divine and spiritual ; the other was only for babes , and this for grown christians . iv. by differences among church-guides about the sense of scripture and tradition . thus it was in the samosatenian , arian , pelagian , nestorian , and eutychian controversies . neither of the parties disowned scripture or tradition ; and those who were justly condemned , pretended still to adhere to both . and if such flames could not be prevented , so much nearer the apostles times , by the help of tradition , what reason can there be to expect it so long after ? v. by too great a veneration to some particular teachers , not far from the apostolical times , in regard to their learning or piety ; which made their disciples despise tradition in comparison of their notions . and thus origens opinions came to prevail so much in the church ; and the mixture of platonism with christianity proved the occasion of several errors , with respect to the state of souls after death , as well as in other points . vi. by compliance with some gentile superstitions in hopes to gain more easily upon the minds of the people ; who having been long accustomed to the worship of images and tutelar deities , it was thought no imprudent thing in some guides of the church , when the main doctrines of paganism were renounced , to humour the people in these things ; so they were accommodated to christianity ; but others vehemently opposed this method , as repugnant to the true primitive christianity . but by degrees , those superstitions prevailed ; and the original tradition of the church thereby corrupted . vii . by implicit faith ; which puts it into the power of the church-guides to introduce what doctrines they thought fit . when the best of the people were told it was against the fundamental rights of the catholick church for them to examine any opinions which were proposed to them by their guides , that they neither did , nor could , nor ought to understand them ; and when once this point was gained , people never troubled themselves about scripture or tradition ; for all they had to do , was only to know what was decreed by the church , though with a non-obstante to a divine institution ; as is plain in the council of constance , notwithstanding all the tricks to avoid it . if then , errours might come into the church all these ways , what a vain thing is it to pretend , that oral tradition will keep from any possibility of error ? and so i need give no other answer to his last proposition , that if men did innovate in faith , it must be either through forgetfulness or malice ; for i have shewed many other causes besides these ; especially since i intend to shew in a particular discourse how the errors and corruptions we charge on the church of rome did come into it : my design here being only to shew the possibility of it . there remain only two things which deserve any consideration : . about the charge of pelagianism . . about the council of trents proceeding on tradition ; which will admit of an easie dispatch . i. as to the charge of pelagianism . it doth not lie in this , that he requires any rational inducements to faith , which we do assert as well as he . but it lay in these two things . i. that a divine faith was to be resolved into a natural infallibility . for we were told that divine faith must have infallible grounds ; and when we come to examine them , we find nothing but what is natural . and now to avoid the charge of pelagianism , this divine faith is declared to be meer human faith ; and so human faith is said to have infallible grounds , but divine faith must shift for it self . for saith j. s. 't is confess'd and ever was , that the human authority of the church or tradition , begets only human faith as its immediate effect ; but by bringing it up to christ , it leads us to what 's divine . well ; but what infallible ground is there for this divine faith ? where doth that fix ? is it on the infallibibility of tradition or not ? if not , then we may have divine faith without it . if it doth , then divine faith is to be resolved into natural means : and what is this but pelagianism ? ii. that he excludes the pious disposition of the will , from piecing out ( as he calls it ) the defect of the reasons why we believe . and in another place he excludes the wills assistance in these words , that faith , or a firm and immoveable assent upon authority is not throughly rational , and by consequence partly faulty , if the motives be not alone able to convince an vnderstanding rightly disposed without the wills assistance . how then can a pious disposition of the will be necessary in order to the act of faith ? and is it not pelagianism to exclude it ? therefore i was in the right , when i said , that this way of oral tradition resolves all into a meer human faith ; and that this is the unavoidable consequence of it . no , he saith , he resolves all into christs and the apostles teaching . how ridiculous is this ? for , did not pelagius and coelestius the very same ? and the thing i charged upon them , was , that they went no farther upon this principle than they did . upon this he asks a very impertinent question ; but if i do not answer it , i know what clamours will follow . pray do you hold that christ is a meer man , or that believing him is a meer human faith , or that the doctrine taught by him or them is meerly human ? what occasion have i given for such a question ? but i perceive there is a design among some , to make me be believed to be no christian. i pray god forgive the malice of such men. i thank god , i have better grounds for my faith than oral tradition . i do believe christ to be more than meer man , even the eternal son of god , and that his doctrine is divine , and his apostles had infallible assistance in delivering it . but what is all this to the present question ? i perceive some men when they are hard pinched , cry out , that their adversaries are atheists or socinians , &c. and hope by this means to divert them from the business before them . but these arts will not do . and such a dust cannot so blind the readers eyes , but he must see it is raised on purpose , that he may not be discerned in making an escape . ii. as to the council of trents proceeding upon tradition . that which i said , was , the church of rome hath no where declared in council , that it hath any such power of making implicit articles of faith contained in scripture to become explicit by its explaining the sense of them . and the reason i gave , was , because the church of rome doth not pretend to make new articles of faith : but to make implicit doctrines to become explicit , is really so to do ; as i there proved . now what saith j. s. to this ? i. he saith , that the council of trent defines it belongs to the church to judge of the true sense and interpretation of scripture . as though all that belonged to the church , must presently belong to the church of rome ; or all judgment of scripture must be infallible ; or must make things necessary to be believed which were not so before . ii. he shews , that the church did proceed upon this power . what power ? of making things not necessary to become necessary ? i. it declares sess. . that from some texts mentioned , the church was ever persuaded of the doctrin of transubstantiation . this is an admirable argument , to prove , that it can make that necessary to be believed , which was not , because it was always believed . ii. sess. . it declares cor. . to be understood of sacramental confession by the custom and practise of the church . then i suppose the church thought it necessary before . iii. sess. . it declares jam. . to be understood of sacramental confession . but how ? by its power of making it necessary to be believed meerly by such declaration ? no ; but by apostolical tradition ; then the meaning is , that it was always so understood . but because the council of trent doth pretend to apostolical tradition for the points there determin'd , and the shewing that it had not catholick and apostolick tradition , is the most effectual confutation of the present pretence of oral tradition , i shall reserve that to another discourse , part whereof , i hope , will suddenly be published . finis . a catalogve of some books printed for henry mortlock , at the phoenix in s. paul's church-yard . a rational account of the grounds of protestant religion ; being a vindication of the lord archbishop of canterbury's relation of a conference , &c. from the pretended answer by t. c. wherein the true grounds of faith are cleared , and the false discovered ; the church of england vindicated from the imputation of schism ; and the most important particular controversie between us and those of the church of rome throughly examined : by edward stillingfleet , d. d. and dean of s. pauls , folio , the second edition . origines britannicae : or the antiquity of the british churches ; with a preface concerning some pretended antiquities relating to britain , in vindication of the bishop of s. asaph , by edward stillingfleet d. d. dean of s. pauls , folio . the rule of faith : or an answer to the treatise of mr. j. s. entituled , sure footing , &c. by john tillotson , d. d. to which is adjoyned , a reply to mr. j. s.'s third appendix , &c. by edward stillingfleet d. d. a letter to mr. g. giving a true account of a late conference at the d. of p's . a second letter to mr. g. in answer to two letters lately published concerning the conference at the d. of p. veteres vindicati : in an expostulatory letter to mr. sclater of putney , upon his consensus veterum , &c. wherein the absurdity of his method , and the weakness of his reasons are shewn ; his false aspersions upon the church england are wiped off , and her faith concerning the eucharist of proved to be that of the primitive church : together with animadversions on dean boileaus french translation of , and remarks upon bertram . an answer to the compiler of nubes testium : wherein is shewn that antiquity ( in relation to the points in controversie set down by him ) did not for the first five hundred years believe , teach and practice as the church of rome doth at present believe , teach and practice ; together with a vindication of veteres vindicati from the late weak and disingenuous attempts of the author of transubstantiation defended by the author of the answer to mr. sclater of putney . a letter to father lewis sabran jesuite , in answer to his letter to a peer of the church of england ; wherein the postscript to the answer to the nubes testium is vindicated , and father sabrans mistakes further discovered . a second letter to father lewis sabran jesuite , in answer to his reply . a vindication of the principles of the author of the answer to the compiler of nubes testium in answer to a late pretended letter from a dissenter to the divines of the church of england . scripture and tradition compared , in a sermon preached at guild-hall-chappel , nov. . . by edward stillingfleet d. d. dean of s. pauls , the second edition . there is now in the press , and will speedily be published , an historical examination of the authority of councils , discovering the false dealing that hath been used in the publishing of them , and the difference amongst the papists themselves about their number . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e faith vindicated , pag. . faith vindicated , pag. . errour nonplust , pag. . haeres . blakloan . p. , . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . third letter , p. . append. ad haeres . blakloan . first letter , pag. . , . declaratio j. s. circa doctrinam in suis libris contentam ; exhibita sacrae congregationi eccles. & r. d d. cardinalium — general . inquisitorum . duaci . . john . . haeres . blokloan . pag. , , . page . page . haeres . blackloan . p. . , &c. . haec nova propositio fidem christianam destruit impellitque ad scepticismum & atheismum . haeres . blaklo . p. . mecum omnes viri docti & orthodoxi sentiunt , per tua principia vastum ad atheismum & heresin hiatum aperiri . haeres . blackloan , p. . . . a . ad . sed circa ea quae sunt de necessitate salutis , sufficienter instruuntur à spiritu sancto . . . . . a. . ad . donum intellectus nunquam se subtrahit sanctis circa ea quae sunt necessaria ad salutem , sed circa alia interdum se subtrahit . ib. ad . . a. . dicendum quod lumen fidei facit videre ea quae creduntur — ita per habitum fidei inclinatur mens hominis ad assentièndum his quae conveniunt certae fidei & non aliis . . . . . a. . ad . per lumen fidei divinitus infusum homini homo assentit his quae sunt fidei , non autem contrariis ; & ideo nihil periculi vel damnationis inest his qui sunt in christo jesu , ab ipso illuminati per fidem . . . . . a. . ad . greg. ariminens . d. . a. . q. . greg. de valentia . tom. . disp. . q. . part. . hugo de sancto victore sumsent . l. . c. . de sacram. l. . p. . c. . . rich. de sancto victor . declar. part. . p. . petr. pictaviens . sentent . part. . c. . gul. parisiens . de fide. c. . gul. antissiodor sum. in praef. & l. . tit. q. . alex. alens . part. . q. . m. . a. . part. . q. . m. . a. . bonavent . l. . d. . q. . aquin. . . . a . in c. . . . a. . in . b. . . . . a. . ad . . . a. . ad . . . a. . . . a. . c· henr. gandav . sum. art. . q. . n. , , . art. . q. . n. . . q. . n. , . scot. in sentent . l. . q. . n. , . durand . prolog . q. . n. , . l. . dist. . q. . n. , . second letter , p. . second letter , pag. . second letter to mr. g. pag. . third catholick letter , pag. . third letter , p. . first letter , p. . first letter , p. . second letter , p. , . theod. haeret . fab. l. , . first letter , p. . first letter , p. . page . . . . . . . page ●● . page . page . page . page . third letter , p. . p. . bell. de verbo dei , l. . c. . sect . respondeo . third letter , p. · p. . cor. . . thess. . . joh. . . third letter . page , . d . letter , p. . third letter . page , . luke , . . job . . third letter , p. . , . second letter , p. . third letter , p. . bell. de verbo dei l. . . third letter , p. . bellar. de verbo dei , l. . c. . third letter , p. . pag. . pag. . ibid. page . third letter . page , . page . page . s. cyprian . de ●nit . epist. ad jubai . third letter , p. . page . mat. . , . page . hieronym . ad dardanum . third letter , p. . third letter , p. . page . page . page . page . page . first letter p. . page . page . page . page . page . page . page . page . page . page . euseb. l. . c. . c. . c. . l. . c . theod. l. . c. . l. . euseb. l. . c. . l. . c. . third letter , p. . faith vindicated , p. . page . page . origines britannicæ, or, the antiquities of the british churches with a preface concerning some pretended antiquities relating to britain : in vindication of the bishop of st. asaph / by ed. stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng great britain -- church history. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion origines britannicae , or , the antiquities of the british churches . with a preface concerning some pretended antiquities relating to britain , in vindication of the bishop of st. asaph . by ed. stillingfleet , d. d. dean of st. paul's , and chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london , printed by m. flesher for henry mortlock , at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . . the preface . the design of the following book is to give as clear and distinct a view of the state and condition of the british churches , from their first plantation to the conversion of the saxons , as could be had at so great a distance , and by such a degree of light as is left us concerning them . when i first undertook this subject i intended no more than an introduction to something else ; but being entred into it , and laying the several parts of it before me , i found so many obscure and doubtfull passages to be clear'd , so many common mistakes to be rectified , so many considerable parts of church-history which tended to illustrate it , that either i must give a very imperfect account of it , or so much exceed the proportions of a preface , that i concluded i had better alter my design and with more pains and materials make it an intire work of it self . to this end i laid aside whatever related to the first occasion of my undertaking it , reserving that for its proper place and season ; and then i resumed the consideration of this present argument , with larger and freer thoughts , and resolved to attempt something towards the rescuing this part of church-history , wherein we are so much concerned , from those fabulous antiquities which had so much debased the value and eclipsed the glory of it . this i knew was a work , not onely of much labour and industry in searching and comparing good and bad authours printed and ms. foreign and domestick ; but which required more than ordinary care and judgment in separating the oar from the dross ; which being done as it ought , the question might be , whether it would not fall out here as in some mines , that the quantity of good oar would be so small as hardly to compensate for the pains of digging and refining it . but this was not all the difficulty to be foreseen ; for some mens eyes are still so tender as not to be able to bear the strong impressions of light ; especially in what relates to the antiquities of their own countrey . for whatever the reason be , of that love mankind do naturally bear to the countrey they are born in , we find it so universal , that even the laplanders and samoyeds admire no countrey like their own ; and are impatient of any contradiction to their fancies of the beauties and conveniencies of it . and it is pity to rob men of any such false idea's , not entrenching upon religion or morality , which tend so much to the ease and comfort of their lives . for , if men will be in love with a cold air and a barren soil , with ice and mountains , with living in caves and hutts , and travelling upon the hardned snow , to what purpose should any go about to confute them , by proving that the elysian fields are more pleasant than those northern climats ? and so strong is the inclination that is rooted in mankind to the love of their countrey , that some learned and witty men , who have been born in none of the most tempting climats have used great art and industry to represent them with such advantage to the world , as though paradise were but another name for their native countrey . of which we have a remarkable instance in the late work of an ingenious person , who with mighty pains hath endeavoured to prove not onely that plato's atlantick island , but the elysian fields themselves are to be found in one of the remotest northern countries . and it is to little purpose to go about to alter such mens opinions , which are not so much founded on reason , as on an over bearing passion for their native soil , which hurts no other part of the world , and makes their own seem more pleasant to themselves . some will be apt to think , the greatest punishment to such persons , is to let them live at home and enjoy their own opinions ; but i rather look on it as an effect of the wisedom of divine providence to make men contented with the places of their habitations : for if all mankind should love and admire one and the same countrey , there would be nothing but destroying one another in hopes to enjoy it ; whereas now , since the true paradise is lost , it seems to be most convenient for the world , that every nation should believe they have it at home . if therefore any of our neighbour nations should think their own the richest , the pleasantest , the fruitfullest countrey in the world , i should by no means think it fit to dispute it with them , no more than i would the wisedom or goodness of their parents . for , however the truth of things be , it is best for children to believe well of them ; and it may prove of very ill consequence to alter a mistaken good opinion in them ; for it makes them less contented and less fit to be governed than before ; and living under such a mispersuasion can never doe them so much hurt as the unseasonable discovery of their errour doth . from hence i look on all national quarrels as very foolish and mischievous , it being reasonable that all persons should love their own countrey as they do their parents ; and no man ought to suffer in his esteem for that which it was never in his power to help . but whosoever fixes an ill character upon a person on the account of his countrey , makes a whole nation his enemies , which no wise man will ever doe ; and whoever doeth it will one time or other see cause to repent his folly. but is it not possible for learned and ingenuous men to enquire into and debate the several antiquities of their nations without making a national quarrel about them ? in matter of self-defence there is a moderamen inculpatae tutelae to be observed ; and so there ought certainly to be in the defence of our countrey ; especially when the dispute relates neither to the safety , nor profit , nor the true honour or esteem of it , but onely to a mere point of antiquity ; wherein wise and learned men may differ from each other that are natives of the same countrey . and these matters are not to be decided in the field , nor at the bar , nor by a majority of voices , but depend upon the comparing of ancient histories , the credibility of testimonies , and a sagacity in searching , and skill in judging concerning them . it is not every one that can plead eloquently at the bar , or quote authours at second hand , or dispute warmly out of common places , that is presently fit to judge about such things ; for he that takes upon him to doe that ought not onely to have a general skill in antiquity and the best authours , but to compare the histories and annals , the successions and the settlements of the neighbour nations together , and then with great impartiality to deliver his judgment ; but by no means to espouse any particular interest , as though he were retained on that side . which he plainly discovers if he appear resolved to maintain one side against the strongest evidence , and to cry down the other in an ignominious and reproachfull manner ; as though nothing but particular piques and animosities , or which is far worse , ill will to the government , could lead men into such debates ; nay as though it were a degree of lese-majesty , ( as it is termed ) to call in question some very remote and very uncertain traditions about the first succession of the kings of a neighbour nation . this i have particular reason to take notice of , from the usage the very learned and judicious bishop of st. asaph hath lately met with in this kind , merely because in his late excellent book he rejects the long succession of kings from fergus the son of ferquard , from the time of alexander 's taking of babylon ; which he doth chiefly on these two grounds , . because he proves from good authorities in his book , that the scots could not be so early setled in britain . . because those scotish historians who have asserted it are not of sufficient authority to be relied upon ; which he shews at large in his preface . now upon this occasion , his majesty's learned advocate in scotland , hath been pleased to think it a part of his duty to answer this part of the bishop's book , not without some kind of sharpness and unhandsome reflexions on a person of his character and merit ; but none like this , that he admires that any of the subjects of great britain did not think it a degree of lese-majesty to injure and shorten the royal line of their kings . but there is more reason to admire at the strangeness of this accusation , unless it were intended to shew that he could as well prosecute as write against the bishop by virtue of his office , for disputing their antiquities . as though the fundamental constitution of the british monarchy were at all concerned in the credit of hector boethius , for upon it , as i shall presently shew , the main stress of this matter doth rest . but because these are dangerous insinuations , and may as well be urged against some part of the following book , i shall here make it clear how very unjust and unreasonable they are . for it is not the antiquity of the royal line which is in dispute , but the succession of it in such a place ; the irish antiquaries carrying the succession much farther back than hector boethius , or lesly , or buchanan do . and therefore they charge others far more with shortning the royal line , making it to begin with fergus ; when they derive it long before by a continued succession from simon brek , and herimon , and gathelus , who they say was but six descents from japhet . but if there be any degree of lese-majesty ( for i am very unwilling to put these hard words into proper english ) in those who debate any thing wherein the honour of the royal line is concerned , let them clear themselves of it , who lay the foundation of the monarchy in the election of fergus . for that is truly the state of the case ; those who contend so earnestly for the succession of the royal line from fergus the son of ferchard , placing his title to the monarchy in the choice of the heads of the tribes ; which will appear from the words of hector boethius , who is in truth the main support of all this tradition . for , although fordon doth mention the succession of many kings from fergus the son of ferquard to fergus ii. yet he professes he could find nothing particular concerning them ; although he quotes several chronicles , and we are told he had the view of their annals , such as they were , of paslay , scoon and other places . he names indeed . kings , but he desires to be excused as to the several times of their reigns , for he had not met with them written at large , but from the time of fergus ii. he promiseth to be very distinct and particular . yet after him comes hector boethius , of whom the learned advocate tells us that erasmus said he could not lie ; ( which comes very near to infallibility in matter of fact ) and he is as distinct and particular in the first succession as he is in the second . from whence comes this mighty difference ? of this he informs us from hector boethius himself ( and can we have a better authority than his that could not lie ? ) that he had several books from icolmkill , which he followed in writing his history . i cannot now enter upon the consideration of the authority of these books , ( of which afterwards ) but , as far as yet appears , it depends upon the credibility of hector . but that which i am now to shew is , that if hector boethius his authority be allowed , those who lengthen the royal line doe more injury to the monarchy than those who shorten it . for the first account he gives of it is this , that the scots in britain being pressed by the picts and britains , they sent over into ireland for assistence ; ferquard sent his son fergus with supplies ; who , saith he , left it to the choice of the heads of the tribes , what government they would have , whether a monarchy , aristocracy or a commonwealth ; and they pitched upon a monarchy , and made fergus their king : which he saith was just years before christ's nativity . after which he sets down fergus his owning that he received his authority from the people ; and their fundamental contract to adhere to him and to his line , which if he may be believed , was ingraven in marble tables , and then the agrarian law follow'd . and ( which is very observable ) the first design we find laid for altering the succession of the crown and excluding the next heir , is in hector boethius his account of the immediate successour to fergus the son of ferquard . for notwithstanding the binding oath to the posterity of fergus , yet immediately after his death , he saith , feritharis was chosen king , although fergus left ferlegus his son and heir ; and not onely so , but a law , saith he , was past excluding the next heir from any right to government till he attained to such an age. the effect whereof was , that ferlegus attempting to recover his right from feritharis was banished and utterly excluded . hector himself confesses he was at just age when he demanded the crown , but he was put by and severely rebuked , quod injussu patrum petiisset regnum , but he did it without the authority of the senate ; upon which they imprisoned him , but he made his escape and fled first to the picts , then to the britains , and after feritharis his death main was chosen to succeed . this is the just and true account of this matter , as it is delivered by hector boethius , and after him by lesly , who speaks more plainly of ferlegus his exclusion ; sed ferlegum recusavit populus . buchanan saith , that he was condemned in his absence ; but he would fain reconcile this practice to their former oath ; ( although the advocate himself saith , this oath did in law and reason bind them to obey the lineal successour according to the proximity of bloud ) but buchanan's pretence is because the present king during the minority of the heir , was but a king in trust , and the heir at such an age was to succeed . but how well that was observed appears by this first instance , and in truth , hector boethius and the rest after him do put the whole power as to these matters , in the hands of the people , or at least of the heads of the clanns ; as will appear more afterwards . it cannot therefore but be very surprising to us to see his majesty's advocate so zealously defending this history of the first succession of their kings , and reflecting upon a bishop of our church for calling it in question . and yet he cannot deny that this law was the occasion of many bloudy civil wars between the uncles and nephews ; and he calls it the dispute betwixt such as were for the crown and such as were for popular elections . from whence it follows , that hector boethius his history of the first succession from fergus is to set up the popular claim . and quite through that first race hector makes the supreme unaccountable power in all cases of male administration to be lodged in the heads of the people , and the ministerial in the monarch . and therefore , we should have thought it had better become his majesty's advocate to have overthrown such pernicious principles to monarchy , as are contained in this account of the first race of their kings from fergus the son of ferquard . and although buchanan , among the half-learned , bear the blame of these antimonarchical principles , yet it is evident that he onely built on the foundations laid by those who set up this first race , as the advocate himself confesseth , whose words are , all buchanan 's arguments for restraining kings being founded on the authority of our historians , who , as he saith , assert that king fergus was first elected king by the people . and therefore those historians who set up this succession in such a manner had no kindness to monarchy , as appears by what lesly himself saith about king fergus and his successours . it is true that the learned advocate hath , according to his duty , published a just defence of the monarchy of scotland ; but i must crave leave to say that it can never be defended upon good grounds unless the account of fergus the son of ferquard , and the succession of kings from him as delivered by hector boethius and lesly as well as buchanan be rejected . and this is too plain from the answers he gives to this consent of their historians . . he saith , that gathelus was not at all elected by the people . whither are we now carried ? the question was concerning fergus in scotland , the answer is concerning one who is supposed to have lived i know not how many ages before him , and we know not where : and it had been to as much purpose to have said , adam was not chosen by the people . but who was this gathelus ? in very truth , he was no other ( according to these historians ) than a son of a certain king of athens , who went into aegypt and married scota the daughter of pharaoh , who was drowned in the red sea , and afterwards setled in portugal , from him called portus gatheli , ( as the advocate observes ) from whence a colony of that race transported it self into ireland , and another into scotland . now , saith he , all those who are descended from his colonies were by law obliged to obey the eldest son and representative of that royal family . what! by the law in king fergus's time ? for there is none so much as mentioned before that fundamental contract ; and was it not well kept after fergus's death ? but if there had been any precedent the other had been needless . however the question is not concerning gathelus and his posterity in ireland , but fergus and his successours in scotland . . he answers , that the heads of their tribes acknowledged fergus for their king. but do not these historians say expresly , that they chose him , and that he left it to them to chuse what government they pleased ? and the words of fergus in hector boethius are these , vestrum erit in hoc negotio , quid utilius ad vestram rempublicam sit discernere , nostrum vestra capessere imperia . did ever man more own the supreme authority of the people than hector boethius makes fergus to doe in these words ? whether these very words were spoken by him , even hector dares not say ; but he is sure they were such like . and afterwards he saith , tandem fergusio regnum decernunt ; and to the same purpose lesly , fergusio regnum ab omnibus decernitur . is all this a bare acknowledgment of him for their king ? what more emphatical words could be used to express a free election , and that the people gave fergus the power , than these historians do use ? . he goes on to give a farther answer , which is very remarkable in his majesty's advocate , viz. that we reade nothing at all of the consent of the people , but of the heads of the tribes , who had no commission from the people , each of them having by his birth-right a power to command his own tribe , and consequently the royal power was not derived from the people . what is the meaning of all this , but onely to shew that the royal authority was not derived from the rabble , but from the nobility or heads of the several clanns ; and consequently the power of calling their kings to account lay onely in them ? no , saith he , fergus succeeded in the right of those chiefs to command their respective families . then fergus had no more power , as monarch , than the heads of the several clanns had before . but did they , according to these historians , part with their rights of government to fergus and his posterity ? by what authority then did they take upon them to imprison and depose (a) euenus iii. and set up cadalanus as king ? by what authority did they take arms against (b) dardanus and set up galdus , who took away his life , communi omnium ordinum consensu , saith lesly ? by what authority did they assemble against (c) lugtachus , galdus his son , and s●●t souldiers to dispatch him ? by what authority did they rise against (d) mogallus his successour , with a design to destroy him , as hector confesseth , which they did effectually , as lesly agrees ? how came they to take upon them to imprison (e) conarus and set up argadus in his room ? and to dispose of the government in the time of (f) ethodius ii. and according to lesly commit him to prison , where he was killed ? how came they , notwithstanding the law of regency to set up (g) athirco , while he was uncapable by it ? i meddle not with those kings who were killed by secret conspiracies , nor with open vsurpers , such as nathalocus and donald of the isles ; but i onely set down what these historians deliver , as to the right and authority which the nobles assumed to themselves in case of male-administration , to shew that if these mens accounts must be received , the heads of the clanns did not part with their share in the government so much , but upon occasion they did resume it . and therefore i have been apt to suspect ( from the controversie about regency at the time when hector wrote ) that all this history of the first race of kings was framed on purpose out of ill will to the monarchy , and with a design to advance the power of the nobility . and now let any true friend to the monarchy judge , whether those who shorten the royal line , or those who so earnestly contend for this story of fergus and his successours , be more liable to be charged with any degree of lese-majesty . . but after all , the advocate saith , that fordon the most ancient of their historians affirms , that fergus made himself king. indeed fordon doth say , that fergus the son of ferard , ( as he calls him ) hearing there were many scots in the northern parts of albion , living without order and government , and hearing a good account of the countrey , he was prompted by his ambition to go over to them , and taking with him a good number of young men , he gathered together the dispersed scots , and joining them all together in the western parts , he made himself king over them . which is no improbable account , but fordon saith not a word of all the former passages in the other historians . and if fordon be the most ancient of their historians , what becomes of veremundus and cornelius hibernicus , the two great supporters of hector boethius his history ? if they were after fordon , how come they to be so well instructed in so many particulars in the first succession , which fordon was wholly unacquainted with ? i cannot deny that fordon speaking of the coronation of alexander iii. ( as he calls him ) mentions an old highlander , who in the irish tongue repeated the genealogy of their kings backward as far as fergus the son of ferquard . but therein he comes not up to the number , either in fordon or hector boethius ; and hath very considerable differences from the accounts either in him , or in lesly and buchanan . for after fergus he leaves out feritharis , and makes main his next successour ; the next he calls arindal whom they call dornadilla ; his son , roveyn , they nothatus ; and his rether is the same with their reuther ; but here they interpose a reutha to make their story agree with bede's reuda . but this genealogist next names ther , whom they call thereus , and his son rosin ; but they say josina succeeded thereus , being his brother . after this , we find a greater difference , for instead of finnanus , durstus , euenus , gillus , euenus ii. ederus , euenus iii. metellanus , caratacus ; we find there onely dethach , jaw , aliela , euen , ederskeol , comermore ; some agreement there is , but a far greater diversity , and hector's famous caratacus quite omitted . then succeeded corbre , whom they call corbred , after him daradiamore , by them stiled dardanus ; then another corbre instead of their galdus ; and then luthach , lugtacus in them ; then mogalama , their mogallus ; coner their conarus ; ethath their ethodius ; fiachrath their satrahel ; then another ethath , whom they call ethodius ii. before whom they place king donald in whose time , they say , christianity was first received in scotland , who is utterly excluded by this ancient genealogy . for after this ethodius follows in it athirkiwr , which is their athirco , then findachar , which is their findocus , and so nathalocus is shut out ; and so after him are the two donalds , for the next that follows is thrinklind , whom they call crathlintus ; then fencormach their fincormacus , after him romaich , their romachus ; then enegussa , which is plainly their angusianus , and fethelmech their fetelmachus ; then engusafich and etheat , instead of which they put eugenius and ethodius his brother ; whom both make grandfather to fergus ii. whose father they call erthus , but the ancient genealogy and fordon eirch . now by comparing this genealogy and hector boethius together , i am convinced that he did not forge all the names of his first race of kings , between the two fergusses ; but yet from hence it appears , ( . ) that hector did insert many things contrary to this ancient genealogy ; and when he did so he had some end to serve in it . as when he puts in regents which the genealogy never owns ; but this was to support his law of incapacity ; but in all this genealogy there is a direct lineal descent , and when he puts in reutha it is to answer bede's reuda , and galdus for tacitus his galgacus , and caratacus for the famous british king of that name ; and king donald to answer our king lucius , that . they might have a christian king in the time of the pope next succeeding eleutherius . . that this genealogy may be allow'd without any advantage to the succession of kings in scotland , from fergus i. so long before the nativity of christ ; for it is very observable , that this ancient genealogist doth very much shorten the succession between fergus ii. and this alexander . for he leaves out eugenius ii. and makes dongard to succeed him ; after him cobren , and then edanius , whereas here they insert constantius i. congallus , conranus , eugenius iii. convallus , kinnatillus between dongard and aidanus : after him he names his son occahebind , whom fordon calls eothodius-bind , which he saith is the same with eugenius ; and about him , hector boethius , as buchanan observes , contradicts the book of pasly , for this saith , he lived in continual wars , and the other that he enjoy'd a constant peace ; so that boethius slights the authority of their ancient annals . next after him they place ferquard , of whom the genealogy saith nothing at all ; fordon next to nothing . in cujus nihil actum est tempore , saith he ; but the other historians tell sad stories of his vitious life and tragical end. after eugenius in the genealogy we find donewald breck , fordon saith , he died after years reign ; and to him succeeded ferquard his brother's son , not mentioned in the genealogy ; nor malduinus son to donald ; for the next is ethac , i. e. eugenius , and here they put in another eugenius , ambirkelethus , eugenius viii . and mordacus between ethac and ethfin , whereas the genealogist makes ethafind son to ethdre , to whom succeeded ethas , i. e. eugenius viii . in their account , after him follows alphin ; but between these , they have inserted fergus iii. solvathius , achaius , convallus and dongallus . they all agree with the genealogist , that kenneth immediately succeeded alphin ; but then follows a wonderfull difference ; for here they put in no fewer than kings between kenneth and malcolm the son of kenneth , whom the genealogist places next after him ; then follows duncan in all ; between whom and malcolm canmoir they put in machabaeus . after malcolm he takes no notice of four kings they insert between him and david , and where they put another malcolm he placeth henry , and then they agree in william , alexander and his son alexander ; in whom the genealogy begins , and so runs backward in a lineal ascent . now it deserves very well to be considered , that this ancient genealogist hath so much shortned the succession as will bring the whole into a much less compass : for the modern historians have inserted more kings in the second race from fergus the son of erk than are contained in the genealogy from fergus the son of ferquard to fergus ii. and so the whole succession will stand within the same time that it now doth , from fergus the son of erk. and if the shortening the royal line be such an injury to it , as the advocate supposeth , it is well for this ancient genealogist that he lived so long since , or else he might have had a cast of the advocate 's office. neither is the authority of this genealogist to be slighted by the learned advocate , since himself giving an account how their tradition might have been , and was preserved , he brings this very instance of the genealogy of king alexander in the year . before fordon 's time , and related so by him that his relation cannot but be credited ; and so he repeats the beginning of it as it is in fordon . but if he had taken the pains to compare it , he would have found how much it overthrew the credit of their historians . for if this was the way their tradition was preserved , then by this way , we are to judge of the truth of their ancient tradition ; and consequently we must reject those kings whose names are not preserved in this ancient genealogy . and to confirm this we have another said to be more ancient in fordon , which the advocate attributes to baldredus , abbat of melros , ( otherwise called ealredus , abbat of rhieval ) in his lamentation of king david , soon after his death , who died a. d. . but i confess i do not find , that fordon attributes this genealogy to baldredus , for he saith he had it from walter de wardlaw , cardinal and the bishop of glasgow , who lived in the time of robert ii. saith lesly : ( which helps to discover fordon's age ) and in this genealogy the first part from david to fergus is cut off with an &c. but the other part from fergus ii. up to fergus i. is preserved entire , and except in the spelling of some few names , exactly agrees with the former genealogy , leaving out all those kings which are omitted in the other . but the latter genealogy having been corrupted before fordon's time , he would not have it stand upon record against him ; which caution he forgot when he came to alexander iii. but there is still a third genealogy in fordon , which supplies in some measure the defects in that of king david , and it is the succession of kenneth , the first monarch of scotland ( the picts being totally subdued by him ) and then he makes no more between them but alphin , and then achai ( which seems to be truer than the other which calls alphin's father ethas ) before him he places ethfin called ethafind in the other ; next him is eugenius in the other ethodac ; then dongard the son of donwald brek ; whereas in the other this dongard is omitted ; before donewald-brek in this genealogy , is eugenius-bind called occahebind in the other ; then aidanus , in the other edanus ; then gouran called there cobren , then dongard , and so we are come to fergus the great ; and there is but one difference , i. e. about dongard , in these genealogies . and this makes but kings between fergus and kenneth , whereas the common historians make . which is a very unreasonable addition to their own most ancient genealogies . but if this were not done there would appear no probability , that the first fergus should have come into scotland years before christ's nativity . which the learned advocate affirms in the very beginning of his defence , that all their historians are agreed on . and yet farther to confirm these genealogies he tells us he had seen an old genealogy of the kings of the albanian scots , agreeing with that mentioned at the coronation of king alexander ii. and which has still been preserv'd as sacred there , i. e. at icolmkill , i suppose , or the island jona . but it is observable that hector mentioning the coronation of this alexander , takes notice of the highlander's repeating the genealogy by heart , and he carries it as far as gathelus , but sets down nothing at all of the particulars , which he knew would by no means agree with his catalogue of kings so long before christ. and to confirm all these genealogies , the irish genealogies in gratianus lucius agree with them in excluding so many kings , which hector hath inserted to make the account of time seem probable . onely they make fergus the son of erk to be the first who carried the scots from ireland into albany ; and the ancestours before to have lived in ireland , and to have been derived from the monarchs there . but when hector boethius found years before christ pitched upon by fordon for the scots coming into scotland with so much punctuality , that he saith it was in the sixth year of alexander , wherein he killed darius and took babylon , he thought it by no means fit to omit it , but to it he adds the very year of the world , and of the building of rome , and how long it was after brutus his first coming to britain ; which are all great confirmations of the truth of this account . but fordon quotes no authour for this wild computation ; onely he subjoins a passage out of the legend of s. congall , which mentions the coming of fergus the son of ferquard out of ireland into britain , and after he mentions rether for one of his successours , the same , he saith , with bede's reuda . suppose all this be granted , yet what shadow of proof is there , that fergus came into scotland so long before christ's nativity ? fordon confesses he knew not how long any of those kings after fergus reigned ; how then came he to know so exactly the time of their coming ? what certain note or character of time had they to help them in their calculation ? if they could produce any such , and be able to adjust the times of the succession of their several kings by them , there might be a great deal said for this pretended antiquity ; but when it is at the same time confessed they had no such thing , how could they satisfie any reasonable enquirer into these antiquities ? things standing thus , and hector boethius with the help of his physician of aberdeen , ( who , as dempster saith , was so very usefull to him in framing his history ) set about the rectifying and curing the body of their antiquities ; and endeavourd to bring it into better form , and to fill up the vacuities of it , and render it more agreeable to the palates of that time , which had more smattering of learning than in the ages before . and so he begins his history very formally in imitation of the best roman authours , with deducing their history from gathelus and scota , deriving their succession from the greeks and egyptians , as the romans did theirs from the trojans . this i do not attribute to his invention , for it is at large in fordon ; who quotes some old chronicles and legends for it ; especially the legend of s. brendan ; an admirable and authentick record . but to doe right to hector in this matter , he saith ingenuously that their people follow'd the custome of other nations therein . and as i have shew'd in the following book at large ( where i treat of these antiquities ) this humour had overspread all the northern nations , as soon as they shook off the roman yoke , and began not onely to be distinct kingdoms , but to have some affectation of the roman learning , and to have persons of their own nation who began to write their histories ; who thought they did nothing for the honour of their countrey unless they could , some way or other , derive themselves from the trojans , or greeks , or egyptians , whom they met with so often in the roman authours ; and the romans in most provinces mixing together with the northern people , excited a greater ambition in them , either to be like the romans , or to exceed them in their pretended antiquities . and their inventions not being extraordinary , there is very little variety in their several accounts , as will appear by comparing them in their proper places . in this point hector boethius hath acquitted himself well enough ; but finding the succession of their kings very short and meagre , having no flesh to fill it , nor nerves to support it , nor colour to adorn it ; therefore he sets himself to make up what he found defective , and to put it together under the names of veremundus and cornelius hibernius or others ; out of these he frames a long series or catalogue of kings , which looked big , and raised mens expectations , and seem'd well enough contrived to serve the pretence to so great antiquity . this being done , he fills up the story of these kings , not out of their old annals ( as far as yet appears ) but in a great measure out of his own invention , so as to mix the commonwealth-learning of the greeks and romans with the history of their ancient kings . which hath done great prejudice to the rights of the monarchy ; for hector's history took so much among the nobility , ( for very good reasons to them ) that all that have written since him , have depended upon his authority , as appears both by buchanan and lesly ; unless it were where he grosly contradicted the roman history , and there buchanan leaves him , but for the main of his history he relies upon him ; and lesly doth nothing in effect but abridge him , whatever he pretends as to records and the annals of the monasteries of pasly and scoon ; which the advocate supposeth he saw at rome , whither he saith they were carried . if so it had been worth while to have procured well attested copies from thence ; which had not been hard in all this time , so many gentlemen of that nation travelling thither , and seeing all the curiosities of their libraries . but lesly saith no such thing ; for he appeals to the publick archives of the kingdom , and not to any mss. at rome ; so that if they were any where , they were then in scotland . but the advocate seems to have forgotten what he had said before ; viz. that the black book of scoon was among president spotswood 's books ; indeed he saith , king charles i. ransom'd it from rome ; but how that appears i know not ; but i know the circumstances he mentions about col. fairfax , &c. relate not to the book of scoon , but to a copy of fordon , which was presented by him to king charles ii. and if buchanan had the use of the books of pasley , and the famous book of pluscarden ; as the advocate believes , upon buchanan's word , then in his time they were not carried to rome . for my part , i do not question that there were mss. chronicles in scotland before fordon ; for i find him frequently citing them ; but by the things he quotes out of them they were not considerable , nor done by any authority , as the annals of the royal monasteries of this kingdom ; his continuer saith were and afterwards examined and compared . i am sorry to find sir r. sibbald reckon up among the books he had never seen , ( having made it his business so many years to illustrate his countrey ) not onely cornelius hibernicus and veremundus , but the annals of pasley and scoon : but however , we are glad that the advocate assures us he hath a very old abridgment of the book of pasley ; and may this present heat against the bishop of st. asaph provoke them to procure and publish their ancient annals , such as they are , which will be the greatest advantage to the world of this contention about their antiquities . and i am so far from any pique or animosity in this matter , that i should be glad to see those antiquities , which yet appear dark and confused , clear'd up to the satisfaction of all learned and ingenuous men. but i must beg pardon of his majesty's advocate , if i take the freedom to say he hath not taken the right method to doe it . for he ought first to have proved the matter in dispute by clear and indubitable testimonies , before he had made his severe reflexions and inferences ; but as cicero said of the musician who defined the soul to be harmony , ab arte sua non recessit , so this ingenious gentleman hath managed this whole debate in a way more agreeing to the character of an advocate than of an antiquary . for why so many insinuations , as though some injury were intended to the royal line , which i dare say , the bishop of st. asaph doth really honour and esteem as much as his majesty's advocate himself . for , doth any man of understanding think that it is any injury to the royal line of britain to have the fabulous antiquities of geoffrey of monmouth concerning the succession of british kings down from brutus confuted ? and is not this done by buchanan ? and the advocate in plain english saith , those tempt men to lie who endeavour to derive themselves from the trojans . but why not , as well from the greeks and egyptians ? but the bishop of st. asaph is so just to truth , and so little a friend to popular fables , that he fairly gives up geoffrey before he attacks hector boethius ; could any thing be more fairly and impartially done ? or more convincing , that he onely designed to find out truth in these matters , without regard to that fondness some men still have for these british antiquities ? for there are and will be some ( and those not wholly unlearned ) who are naturally inclined to believe fables ; and have so passionate a zeal for such things , that they cry out upon all discoveries of this kind , as injuries to their countrey , if not to the royal line . but may it not justly seem strange , that when our polite and learned neighbours have endeavoured with so much care to reform their histories , and to purge away all fabulous antiquities out of them ; we of this island should grow angry and impatient when any undertake so generous a design ? what injury is it thought to be to the royal line of france , that hunibaldus his antiquities find no longer place in their histories ? and yet nothing seems more glorious , than to have their royal line deduced long before the time that alexander took babylon . for according to hunibaldus his account , which he took he saith out of an ancient ms. of vastaldus ( such another authour as veremundus ) the franks went from troy under the conduct of francio towards the palus maeotis just about the time that aeneas went for italy , where they fixed and built the city sicambria , and at last removed into germany under marcomir the son of priamus , and sunno the son of antenor . after francio , hunibaldus sets down a formal succession of kings of two several races , in the first , and in the second . all which he gives a very particular account of , as to the times of their reign for above years before christ's nativity . and although this ancient succession of kings was a long time received and magnified , as appears by lazius and p. aemilius , and fordon quotes sigebert for it ; yet now their learned historians are ashamed to mention it , much more to plead for it , and to charge those with a degree of lese-majesty who call it in question . suffridus petrus hath written the antiquities of friseland much in the way that hector boethius hath done those of scotland . he tells a very grave story concerning a province in the indies called fresia , from whence a colony was sent under friso , saxo and bruno , who went into alexander's army ; and for this he quotes old frisian rythms , and one patrocles , an old indian writer ; and besides , he hath all the advocate 's common places of tradition , common fame , the testimonies of their own historians , and he names andreas cornelius , ( it seems there was a cornelius frisius as well as hibernicus ) solco fortemannus , occo scherlensis , joh. uleterpius , and several others , who with one consent deliver these antiquities . but , saith he , ye will object , that in so long a time and amidst so many wars such antiquities could hardly be preserved . to that he answers , that friso being admirably skilled in greek learning set up a publick school at stauria near the temple of stavo , and in the temple a library on purpose for antiquities ( like that of icolmkill ) and besides a palace was built by uffo , wherein was contained the effigies of all their kings from friso , ( who came to friseland just years before christ's nativity ) to the time of charlemagn , for years . and are not these antiquities very well attested ? yet since ubbo emmius hath confuted them , no learned advocate hath appeared in vindication of them . is it any disparagement to the royal line of spain to have the first succession of kings there disputed ; viz. from jubal to melicola the th king from him , who is said to have reigned there , the very year after the destruction of troy ? so very punctual are the authours of fabulous antiquities . and if you believe them , they have good ancient authours and the tradition of their countrey for them ; haec nostri majores multis libris tradiderunt , saith the pretended berosus . and by these helps , we have great light given us into the antiquities of europe ; for thereby we understand that janus , ( who was somewhat elder than gathelus , being noah himself ) gave tuysco the countrey from the tanais to the rhyne , italy to gomer , the celtick provinces to samothes , and celtiberia to jubal . and this was just years after the floud ; gomer went into italy the th year of saturn the father of jupiter belus ; in the th jubal went into celtiberia , and not long after samothes , called dis , founded the celtick colonies ; among which were the britains , and from him their druids were called samothei : after jubal among the celtiberians reigned iberus his son , from whom came the name of iberi ; and among the celtae , magus the son of samothes in the st year of ninus , who succeeded jupiter belus : this magus in the scythian language is magog , and from him came so many terminations of the names of towns as rhotamagum , noviomagum , juliomagum , caesaromagum , &c. in the th of semiramis , jubelda son of iber , succeeded in celtiberia ; in the time of ninias , son to semiramis , reign'd sarron among the celtae , from him the learned gauls were called sarronidae , the same i suppose with our advocate 's sanachies . in the th of arius , brigus reigned in celtiberia , and in the th dryius among the celtae ; nothing can be more natural than to derive the druids from him : who being converted , the advocate tells us , became their first monks , and in the irish version of the new testament the wise men are translated druids ; therefore the druids were originally irish. in the time of aralius the seventh king of babylon , bardus was king over the celtae , and he was the inventour of musick and verses ; and from him came the bards , who were the poets of their traditions , as the advocate styles them . after him succeeded longo , then bardus junior , after him lucus , and then celtes , and galates , narbon , lugdus , beligius , allobrox , romus , paris , lemannus , galatas junior , and francus . must we allow all these noble antiquities for fear of shortning the royal lines of the princes of europe ? and yet here is a great appearance of exactness , a pretence to ancient records , and to the common tradition of the several countries ; for berosus appeals both to tradition and writing ; and so doth manetho in the continuation of him , quae ex nostris historicis vel corum relationibus consecuti fumus ; so that here we have the two supporters of antiquities , which the advocate builds upon , viz. tradition and records . and metasthenes , another pretended continuer of berosus saith , he took all out of the royal library at susae , where the persian annals were preserved . but notwithstanding all these fair shews and specious pretences , there is not a man of tolerable judgment in europe , who would venture his reputation to plead for these antiquities . but the learned advocate saith , that their antiquities have been received with great applause for many hundreds of years by all historians , antiquaries and criticks of other nations who had any occasion to take notice of their affairs . these are very high expressions , and argue a good assurance in the very beginning of his book . for my part , i do not pretend to acquaintance with all historians , antiquaries and criticks for many hundreds of years ; and so there may have been some , for any thing i know , who have applauded their histories from years before christ ; but upon my little knowledge in books , i dare venture to name him ten who have applauded the antiquities of berosus and manetho , for one who hath allowed theirs . but such hath been my misfortune that i have met with historians , antiquaries and criticks , who have been far from applauding them ; such a one was * ubbo emmius , who declares his opinion freely , that he could not allow any certainty in them , because they depend not upon any ancient annals , but unwritten traditions ; and he not onely speaks thus of the first succession of kings from fergus i. to the second , but from fergus ii. to the destruction of the picts by kenneth , which he reckons anno dom. . but another of the same character , both an historian , antiquary and critick , viz. † m. zuerius boxhornius hath passed a severer censure upon them , for he saith , without doubt their antiquities are fabulous ; and their pretended ancient annals but lately made . these may serve at present , to shew that all historians , antiquaries and criticks have not so much applauded their antiquities . but this is not all , for the advocate saith , they have done it for many hundreds of years . what! before they were known to the world ? for hector boethius was the first person who pretended to give such a clear account of them after the discovery of veremundus and cornelius hibernicus at icolmkill ; and it is not many hundreds of years since he wrote , his book being first printed since the beginning of the sixteenth century . and what account had they of their first antiquities before ? joh. major indeed was printed about five years before him , by the same badius ascensius , and he was no great critick , but a very scholastick historian , and a man of great esteem in his time , as the advocate confesseth ; but he is so far from applauding the remote antiquities of his own countrey , that he calls the story of gathelus and scota and their coming out of greece and egypt a mere figment , and invented onely to match the britains , who derived themselves from the trojans , and he condemns their annals about simon brek ; which shews what a regard he had to their authority . and when he comes to fergus he sets down the old verses about the time of it ; but seems to give very little credit to them ; for he first mentions bede's account about reuda , and then relates what their annals say , i. e. their old verses ( for he quotes no other ) and then saith this doth not contradict bede ; for saith he , regni debile fundamentum fergusius jecit ; he laid a very slender beginning of a monarchy , which was after inlarged by reuda , whom he makes to be rether , and therein contradicts hector's veremundus and the catalogues of their kings , according to which reuda succeeds him . so that these antiquities were so far from being universally received abroad that they went down very hardly at home . and this same historical schoolman expresly saith , that fergus had no other right , but what the people gave him ; and that it is in their power to take it away ; which he not onely asserts , but endeavours to prove in a scholastick manner as far as septimò & finaliter . and is not this a degree of lese-majesty above the endeavouring to shorten the royal line ? and they had far better deny any such person as fergus , than to make him a king upon such terms , which overthrow the monarchy . but who are these foreign historians , antiquaries and criticks , who at any time have so much applauded these antiquities ? joseph scaliger did indeed applaud his own wit for his criticism about scoto-brigantes in seneca's verses . but what is this to fergus his coming so soon into scotland ? for scaliger himself there grants , that these scoto-brigantes were still in ireland ; and he believes that claudius did make an attempt upon them there , because juvenal mentions the coasts of iuverna as brought under the roman power . scoti sunt in hibernia adhuc , non in britannia , are scaliger's own words . and i wonder to see buchanan labour so hard about this passage , to so little purpose . but the advocate saith that the same scaliger in his notes on eusebius hath a most learned and full proof of their antiquity , too learned to be answered by any adversary . what doth he mean by their antiquity ? that of the nation ? no one denies it . that of their settlement in scotland years before christ ? that is to be proved , for scaliger doth it not . he affirms , that the brigantes were a people of ireland , and that during the flourishing of the roman empire , they made frequent incursions into britain , and for proof he brings the testimony of pausanias about antoninus his beating the brigantes in britain ; and the inscriptions in scotland , wherein mention is made of the leg. . which signifie very little to this purpose . for why could not the second legion fight against the brigantes , supposing them to be britains , as well as supposing them to be irish ? but scaliger's opinion was this , the brigantes and the britains were two distinct people ; while they continued at home , they were called by no other name , but when they made excursions abroad , then they were called scotobrigantes and scotobritanni ; and so the word scot , he saith , is not a proper name , but appellative ; and not irish but british , for those who go from home in hopes of booty , as the names of bedwin and saracen ; and so as the arabs were after called saracens , so these brigantes , when they so much infested britain in claudian's time , and after were called scoti . now what there is in all this , that should so much please the advocate , i cannot imagine . he is very angry with the bishop of st. asaph for representing their ancestours as a company of barbarous pilferers and robbers ( although he onely produces the testimony of gildas ) how then comes he to be so much pleased with scaliger , who makes the name scot to signifie so much ? i had thought he should have been more concerned to have disproved such a reproachfull etymologie than to have magnified this discourse of scaliger so highly . but where is it that he mentions the first succession of their kings with approbation , or fergus his coming into scotland before christ's nativity ? all that he saith is , that the scots might be a nation before they were known by that name , ( and who doubts it ) as the burgundians and lombards were : and that the brigantes out of ireland might make inroads and excursions into britain in the flourishing times of the empire . and i see no reason to deny this , although it be not sufficiently proved . but the question is about a standing monarchy in scotland from the time of fergus i. and of this scaliger saith not a word . for these brigantes coming out of ireland might fix there for some time , and return again to ireland , as gildas saith they did afterwards , or they might fix as a scatter'd people not united under a monarchy , as fordon saith , they did before fergus his coming . so that if their antiquities be no more applauded by other antiquaries and criticks than they are by scaliger , this argument will come to very little . and yet salmasius and the rest he mentions , say much less than scaliger ; salmasius onely useth scaliger's criticism about the scoto-brigantes without adding any thing . lipsius unhappily calls galgacus a scot ; which was an improper expression , as i have proved in the proper place ; because it is so evident from tacitus , that the caledonians were not scots ; unless it be taken for scythians , ( of which afterwards ) but by scots here we mean such as came out of ireland to settle in britain ; and such galgacus and his souldiers were not . and the like impropriety bergier , though a learned antiquary fell into , when he interprets the caledonians by scots ; but such as dempster is frequently guilty of , when he calls the britains english , because the english dwelt in britain afterwards . but improper expressions where they fall from learned men by chance ought rather to be passed over with silence than made use of as arguments ; unless those who use them go about to prove what is implied in them . sigonius his name stands among the rest , being indeed a learned historian , antiquary and critick ; but not one word can i find produced out of him in his whole book . what baronius saith rela●es to the conversion of the scotish nation , and not to these antiquities ; of which i have treated at large in the following book . andr. favin and p. aemilius speak onely of an alliance between achaius king of the scots and charles the great ; and what is this to fergus and the succession of kings for years before christ's nativity ? which he saith in the beginning was applauded by all historians , antiquaries and criticks , and as though this were not extravagant enough , he saith afterwards , that baronius , scaliger , salmasius , lipsius , sigonius , favin and others of the first rank ( too many to be named ) have passionately defended their antiquity , and not onely sustained but praised their histories . whereas not one of these produced by him speaks any thing to the matter in question . but we hope to see these things better cleared in the third part of sir r. sibbald's scotia antiqua , where he has promised to give a particular account of the state of the scots in britain before they had kings , then under kings from fergus i. to fergus ii. and from thence to malcolm canmore . if he doth clear these parts of their antiquities , he will doe a great thing ; and for my part , i shall be as willing to believe fergus to have come into britain in the time of alexander as any time after , provided there be sufficient evidence to prove it ; which must be somewhat more convincing than his majesty's advocate hath been pleased to make use of ; but i remember scaliger's censure of claudian , addit de ingenio quantum deest materiae . therefore from the testimony of historians , antiquaries and criticks , i proceed to examine the argumentative part of his book ; and setting aside all common places about historical certainty , tradition , common fame , &c. i shall keep close to the point before us , and examine the force and strength of his reasoning , which consists in these things . ( . ) that upon the same reason we question their antiquities , we may call in question the roman , iewish , greek , french , spanish antiquities , all which depended upon tradition without records for a long time . this is indeed a material objection ; for we ought not to give a partial assent to some antiquities , and deny it to others , if there be the same ground either to give or deny assent to all . but this must be examined . ( . ) as to the roman antiquities , he cites a passage in livy , in which he saith , that the use of letters was not then ordinary ; the onely certain preserver of the memory of things past ( so livy's words are to be understood , rarae per ea tempora literae , una custodia fidelis memoriae rerum gestarum , and not as the advocate with too much art , hath translated them , that the best records were the faithfull remembrance of things past . for if this were livy's meaning why doth he complain of the want of the common use of letters , when he saith tradition is the best way to preserve the memory of things ? which is to make livy speak inconsequently . ) but he goes on saying , that what memorials were left by the high priests , or were in publick or private hands were most part destroyed in the burning of the town . he doth not say all were lost , but the most part . this livy alledgeth to excuse the shortness and obscurity of his first books for want of sufficient records ; and he speaks like a very judicious historian in it . and when he gives an account of the remote antiquities of rome , he is far from confident asserting them , but he speaks with great modesty and discretion about them ; saying that he would neither affirm nor deny them ; being rather built on poetical fables than any certain monuments of affairs at that time , that an allowance must be made to antiquity ; which was wont consecrare origines suas , to make their beginnings as sacred and venerable as they could . but as to such things he would be no advocate either for or against them . then he proceeds to deliver the common tradition about aeneas his coming into italy , and ascanius succeeding him ; but he cannot tell whether ascanius the son of creusa , or another the son of lavinia ; quis enim rem tam veterem pro certo affirmet ? who can be certain in such remote antiquities ? and yet at that time it was thought a great disparagement to the royal line to have it question'd whether it were the elder ascanius , because the julian family , as livy there saith , derived themselves from him who was called julus . it is true , livy after this , relates the roman antiquities down to the burning of the city , when so many records were lost ; but we are to consider , that the romans had certain annals before that time , and that some of them were preserved . that they had annals both publick and private appears by livy's own words , who mentions both the commentarii pontificum and the publica & privata monumenta ; and cicero affirms that the romans from the beginning had annals made up by the pontifex maximus of the transactions of every year ; and these were publickly exposed in a table in his house that the people might be satisfied about them ; and these he saith were called annales maximi ; which he adds were continued down to the time of mucius scaevola , who was pontifex maximus about a. u. c. . these , as servius saith , were after made up into great books , and were the standing monuments of their antiquities . and it is observable that the authour of the book de origine gentis romanae , as vossius and others take notice , inserts several things as taken out of the pontifical annals which hapned before the building of rome ; from whence they do justly infer , that matters of more remote antiquity were put into them , whether by the first pontifex max. in numa's time or after it is impossible now to determine . it seems at first the people were not permitted to view these annals , as canuleius in livy complains ; but afterwards they were exposed to all . and it appears by licinius macer in livy , that the libri lintei ( which seem to have been for the same purpose with the annales maximi but composed by the magistrates ) were preserved in aede monetae , and in them the names of the magistrates were inserted ; and in the same place livy takes notice of the annales prisci , and the libri magistratuum for determining a point about the consuls of a year long before the burning of rome ; which shews that livy did not think all their records then destroyed . and afterwards he saith in the same book , disputing about another consul , that augustus rebuilding the temple of jupiter feretrius , found there in thorace linteo the name of that consul . so that the romans had not onely the pontifical annals but civil too , being made up by the magistrates , and therefore called libri magistratuum by livy , which he distinguishes from the annales prisci . and besides these livy mentions private records among them ; of which cicero speaks , which belonged to particular families : and there is no probability these should be all lost in the burning of the city ; for the capitol was not burnt , in which probably after the romans found the gauls coming upon them , they preserved their ancient annals . and it is considerable , that dionysius halicarnasseus quotes a passage of antiochus syracusanus , ( who lived before the burning of rome , and wrote concerning the affairs of italy ) wherein he saith , that he took his history out of ancient and undoubted records : which shews that there were certain written annals both at rome and in other cities of italy very early ; and the same dionysius quotes the domestick annals of the sabins , and festus the history of cuma . so that the roman histories were built on better foundation than the very uncertain tradition of the natives ; which the advocate is pleased to make the surest foundation of all histories ; but i am so much of another opinion , that i think it ( since the shortning of mens lives ) the certain foundation of none . let now the reader judge whether the case of the antiquities in dispute be the same with that of the romans ; for here are no ancient annals pretended near the time of fergus i. nor in the time of any king of the first race ; no nor from fergus ii. till after the destruction of the picts ; nor any record yet produced for a long time after that ; how then can any persons pretend that if we reject their antiquities we must reject the roman ? but this is not all , for he goes higher , and saith the same objections will lie , ( . ) against the jewish antiquities . for saith he , the iewish history had no historical warrant for the first years but tradition , and after that time their transactions were mentioned in very few foreign histories ; and annals of their own priests were thought good historical foundations in the opinion of iosephus even for the sacred history . and not long after he saith , that the iewish history was challenged by apion upon the same ground that theirs is now quarrell'd by the bishop of st. asaph . this looks somewhat strange among us , for the antiquities of any particular nation so far short of the jewish , to be parallel'd with them in point of credibility ; since the records of scripture are own'd to be divine and sacred , and not merely built on the authority of tradition , or the annals of the jewish priests . whatever josephus or other jews might say in defence of their antiquities against the greeks , we that own our selves to be christians ought to look on moses and the prophets under a higher character . i know a late critick in great vogue among some , hath endeavoured to reduce the sacred history to the authority of the ancient annals of the iews , but withall adding that we have onely some imperfect abridgments of them , much like that which the rector of ranfrew made of the book of pasley , which the advocate saw in sir r. sibbald's library . a doctrine so unreasonable and mischievous in the consequences of it , that i wonder it hath hitherto passed so easily through so many hands . but this is not my present business . i am now onely to shew the vast disparity of these antiquities in question , and those of the jews . it 's very true that apion did object against them , because the greek writers took so little notice of them . but how doth josephus answer him ? he shews , that the greeks were very late writers of history , and therefore incompetent iudges of matters of so great antiquity ; and he proves that the more ancient nations as the egyptians , chaldeans , phoenicians had a most lasting way of preserving their histories , for they had publick annals made by their wisest men and kept in sacred places , but the greeks were very defective in these things ; having no publick writings in their temples or elsewhere ; and that they had not the use of letters in the time of the trojan war ; and their first historians were little elder than the persians war against the greeks . and this reason he gives of the dissonancy of the greek historians , because they had no publick annals , which would have prevented errours , and kept men from a power of deceiving . but great care he saith from the most ancient times was taken of such things among the egyptians and babylonians . and for their ancestours , he saith they exceeded all others in their exactness this way , committing the care of these things to their high priests and prophets . but the authority of writing was not allow'd promiscuously to all , but certain prophets were pitched upon who wrote the most remote antiquities by divine inspiration , and the matters in their own times plainly and according to truth ; and therefore saith he , we have no such multitude of books differing from each other , as the greeks have , but onely , containing an account of all times past , written with great fidelity and authority . afterwards their annals were continued , but not with equal authority , the succession of their prophets failing . and to shew of how great credit these books ( of the first sort ) are among us ; in so long time , saith he , no man hath dared either to add , or to take away , or to transpose any thing . which is utterly inconsistent with the principles of the late critick ; for without a liberty of abridging and transposing and inserting , his new inventions come to nothing . but as to the silence of other nations about them , he shews , that they were a people who lived in great retirement , that the romans themselves were a considerable people before the greeks knew them ; and after all he shews they were known to the egyptians , babylonians and greeks , which he proves from many particular testimonies . now what is there parallel to these things in the present case ? have they produced any such publick and sacred annals written and preserved with so much care , as the ancient jews had ? have they had a succession of prophets among them whose books are preserved to this day with great veneration without addition or diminution ? what mean then such strange comparisons ? can they produce any one authour contemporary with fergus i. and his successours , who mention that succession ? as josephus brings the egyptian , phoenician , chaldean writers to attest the story of the scripture . ( . ) as to the greek antiquities he saith the greeks could have no records for many hundreds of years before they wrote . and what follows , but that therefore there is great uncertainty in the antiquities of greece till that time ? for which reason varro , that great and judicious antiquary rejected two parts in three , of the times of the greeks ; the one he said was wholly in the dark for want of records , and the other fabulous ; because , as josephus observes , they had no publick annals , but their first writers were poets , who minded to write rather things entertaining than true . but we are of late told , that this saying of varro might hold as to the greek antiquities ; but it is unjustly applied by camden to the antiquities of other nations ; for the utmost eastern nations the chineses , and the utmost western the irish have preserved their antiquities far beyond the time which varro allows for true history . i grant varro intended this chiefly for the greeks , who made the greatest noise with their antiquities then ; and yet varro himself , as st. augustine tells us , began his account of the roman antiquities , with the succession of the sicyonian and athenian kings ; not as though he would deliver it for certain historical truth , but as the most common received opinion . and in the fabulous times , he might endeavour to pick out what antiquities he thought came nearests to history . as to the chineses , they are very remote from us , and we have had different accounts of them , as appears by comparing gonsales mendoza and martinius together ; and of their antiquities as delivered by the former , a learned man hath said that they seem to him like manetho's egyptian dynasties . however scaliger thought fit to insert the succession of their kings in his chronological canons , and makes the beginning of that empire coincident with the end of the thirteenth egyptian dynasty ; but in his notes upon it , he complains of the want of farther information about them . which the world hath since in great measure received by martinius , both in his description of the countrey , and the first decad of the history from the beginning of the empire to the nativity of christ. but their way of preserving antiquities was peculiar to themselves , and therefore these cannot very well be made a parallel for the scotish or irish antiquities . martinius hath indeed given a very plausible account of the remote antiquities of china , but in such a manner as shews that even the chineses had a dark and fabulous time as well as the greeks , and he tells us , that themselves acknowledge that before the reign of fohius they have no certain account of things because then they had no use of letters ; but afterwards , they look upon the succession of their kings as delivered down to them with great fidelity . but there are two things this certainty of their history depended upon . ( . ) a fixed rule for the computation of times , without which it is impossible any nation should have an exact account of the ancient succession of their kings . and herein lay the great accuracy of the chineses that they were very early given to the finding out the best methods for calculation ; and they used a cycle of years , years before christ's nativity ; and therefore martinius magnifies the chineses , especially for their skill and exactness in the succession of their princes ; which it is impossible to give a certain account of without a fixed measure of time ; and therefore it hath been so often said that the greeks had no certain history before the olympiads . ( . ) the chineses did not suffer any persons to write history that would , but some of great reputation were appointed after the emperours decease to write his life ; which being approved , was allowed as the onely authentick history of him , and these being put together made up their publick annals , which are preserved to this day . for , notwithstanding the persecution of their histories in the time of chingus , who endeavoured to suppress them , that he might be thought the founder of the empire ; yet his son opposing his design , and many learned men being banished upon it , there were means used to preserve their annals ; but semedo saith , they could never recover a perfect account of the first beginning of that famous empire . now before any other nation can presume to vye with the exactness of the chineses in their antiquities , they must first shew us what means they had for the computation of times , by which we may judge of their antiquity and succession of their kings ; and next they must give an equal account of the care taken time enough to preserve their history of publick annals , as the eastern people and the romans did . for instance , we are told from a late irish antiquary geoffrey keting , that the posterity of gathelus and scota , or the milesian race settled in ireland , a. m. . after the floud . after moses passing the red sea . before christ's nativity . from whence the antiquity of the irish nation , is said not to be parallel'd , unless by the chineses onely . here is a pretence to very great antiquity , and an appearance of exact calculation ; but i onely ask by what cycles the irish proceeded when they began ; how they could adjust the time so well to the age of the world ; or what other certain way they had which might be reduced to it . if they had none , all this might be onely fancy and opinion , unless there were some characters of time fixed and certain by eclipses and astronomical observations , or certain periods of time , or coincident passages , which might connect the year of their descent into ireland , with such a year of the world , or after the floud . if nothing of this kind be produced , we must be excused if we do not yet think the irish antiquities parallel to those of china . for if there be no such characters of time which may direct us in comparing one thing with another , it is possible that there may be one or two thousand years difference in the computation , and yet neither able to confute the other . for suppose i should say that the posterity of gathelus , came into ireland just years before christ's nativity , here is years difference . that is a small matter , you will say , in so great antiquity ; but as small as it is , some account ought to be given of a thousand years . now i desire to have some evident proof brought me of some event in the world which happened years before christ's nativity , to which the irish descent must be coincident . to make this more plain by example , suppose the question be in what age of the world the peloponnesian war began ; we should by no means think it sufficient for any man presently to set down , it was such a year of the world , such a year from the floud , so long before christ ; but we demand some certain character of this time , i. e. such which agrees to that and to no other ; and here , whosoever intends to give satisfaction , will search thucydides , diodorus and ptolemy to find out some undoubted character ; as that thucydides saith that pythodorus was then archon at athens , and it was the year of the olympick solemnities . diodorus saith , this was the , olympiad , and that apseudes was archon the year before ; ptolemy saith he was archon in the year of nabonassar . so by comparing the olympiads and the years of nabonassar with the years of the world , we may come to a certainty in this matter . and besides thucydides mentions a great eclipse the first year of the war , which the astronomers say was of nabonassar , when euthydemus succeeded pythodorus at athens . such a method of proceeding by certain characters of time , is a way to convince reasonable men ; but without any of these to think to impose upon mankind under a pretence of exact calculation , argues too great presumption upon the credulity of mankind . thus as to the coming of fergus i into scotland just years before christ , which the advocate saith all their historians affirm ; let them produce any one certain character of that time out of such annals as were written within the compass of knowing the truth of it , and we will never dispute this matter more . but to proceed , ( . ) as to the french antiquities ; which the advocate saith , may be more justly questioned on these grounds than theirs , we onely desire them to be as ingenuous as the late learned writers of their antiquities have been , who reject all before the merovingian race , as either fabulous , or so doubtfull and uncertain , that they make no account of it , unless it be what they find in the roman authours concerning the franks , as may be seen in hadrianus valesius , a learned historian , antiquary and critick . ( . ) as to the spanish , which are joined with the french ; what relates to their antiquities before the romans war in spain , we grant to be parallel with theirs . for although strabo saith , they had the use of letters , and had some records of ancient times among them ; yet they are utterly lost . and although reinesius de deo endovellico seems to think , that annius had some fragments of those antiquities which he mixed with his own inventions , yet i can see no reason for it ; because he would then have alledged the old spanish records , and not have fathered his antiquities on persons so remote as berosus and manetho . but if they had the use of letters and records among them , might not the irish and scotish derive both from them ? i answer , that the coming of the irish immediately from spain and not from britain is not so evidently proved that any thing can be built upon it . camden and sir james ware two learned antiquaries both think ireland first peopled from britain ; and camden offers good reasons for his assertion , as the agreement of the british and irish languages in very many words ; the similitude of customs and manners ; it 's being anciently called the lesser britain , and the inhabitants britains ; the conveniency of passage from britain thither ; which seem to be of far greater moment than any thing brought to prove the legend of gathelus and scota and their posterity coming out of spain . but because this opinion doth not seem to give any account of the scoti in ireland ( from whence they certainly went into scotland , as is now confessed on all hands ) therefore i shall endeavour to clear this matter , by proposing what seems most probable to me concerning the first peopling of these islands . we are then to consider that the most ancient geographers , as strabo observes out of ephorus , divided the then known world into four parts , the eastern they called india , the southern aethiopia , the western celtia , and the northern scythia . and in the european parts they knew but of two nations beside the greeks , and those are the celtae and the scythae . those that inhabited northward , saith strabo , were called scythae , and those to the west celtae ; who were likewise called iberi and celtiberi , as he affirms ; and these peopled spain and gaul , and from thence spread into the neighbour countries ; and among the rest came over into britain : which in the book de mundo commonly attributed to aristotle , but by buchanan to theophrastus , is said , together with ireland , ( which are both there called the british islands ) to be situate in the ocean not far from the scythae and the celtae . but the latter were so much nearer in gaul , that it is very reasonable to believe the first habitation here was by the celtae , who came from thence . and tacitus truly observes , the agreement was so very great between the gauls and the old britains , that although he suspected the silures might come immediately from spain , ( or rather from the iberi , which strabo saith was a more general name , and some of these went into ireland ) but upon the whole matter , he concluded all the southern parts of britain to have been peopled immediately from gaul . but as to the caledonians he affirms them to have been of a german extraction : i. e. taking germany in the extent he took it in , which went as far as sarmatia , and took in scandinavia ; from whence in probability the northern parts of britain , were first peopled . it is true that tacitus calls them britains as well as the celtae ; and however they were united in interest against the romans , as galgacus shews in his excellent speech to them , yet tacitus , we see , makes them of a different extraction . and these were originally from the european scythae , or from scandinavia , which was abundantly peopled , and supplied other countries , as jornandes saith ; and that they were provided of shipping very early , i have proved in the following book , where i speak of the original of the picts . and besides what is there said to shew that those who dwell in those northern parts , were then called scythians , scymnus chius lately published out of holstenius his papers affirms that the scythians extended from the palus maeotis to countries wholly unknown to the greeks . for being tempted by the rivers , as olaus rudbeck conjectures , having no skill in navigation or astronomy , and the woods in the first ages of the world being unpassable , the people still went farther and farther by the rivers side , till at last finding themselves bounded by the vast mountains in those northern parts and the sea beyond them , they sate down there , and in time so replenished those parts , that they were willing to discharge themselves by sending colonies abroad . to which end they accustomed themselves to the sea , and so from thence these scythians came into the northern parts of britain , where they had the name of caledonians ; and upon new supplies coming after the romans had subdued the southern parts of britain , were then called picts . but of these things afterwards . that which i now design , is to shew that some of these scythae being encouraged by the adventures of others who had settled in britain , passed by the northern islands and went into ireland ; and so the celtae from britain , who were called iberi in strabo , and these scythae met there as they did in britain . but britain still retained its name ; and therefore to distinguish themselves from those who remained there , their countrey was called ibernia from the iberi , and scotia from these scythae ; for saith walsingham , scythae , schythici , scoti , scotici are all one ; which he took from radulphus de diceto , imag. histor. ad a. . and nennius expresly calls them schythae , and gildas the irish sea vallem scythicam ; and alfred in the english translation of orosius calls the scots scyttan ; and the germans both scythians and scots scutten ; and the old britains yscot , as cambden hath already observed . and it is considerable that a late irish antiquary tells us that a part of their countrey in their own language is called gaethluighe , i. e. gothland , from the goths or scythians who took possession of it , he rather thinks the getuli a people of africa gave the name ; but of their coming into ireland there is no probability . and in the same place he saith , that lamfinnus was the first who brought a colony thither out of scythia ; which he proves out of one of their most ancient monuments . and colganus observes on the life of st. cladroe , that whereas they are said to be derived from scota who is said to be pharaoh 's daughter , the true name he saith was scytha ; and that name was given her because her husband came from scythia . and the same antiquary confesses that it appears by all their ancient records , that they had their original from the scythians , and keting himself he saith at last yields it , and that the name of scota was given because the milesian race came out of scythia . and to confirm the peopling of ireland from britain and scandinavia , we are to observe that the irish antiquaries from their best records do speak of two great colonies which came thither from britain , the one of the belgae , of which slangius or slanius was the head , who was the first monarch of ireland ; wherein giraldus cambrensis is confessed to agree with their own antiquities ; and another of the dannanae from the northern parts of britain under nuadus . but besides both these , and long after them they place the dynasty of the scots or scythians under herimon ; and the psaltir na-rann , a book of great authority among them saith that herimon was the first king of the scots in ireland . and in his time , they say , the picts follow'd them thither , but that seems to be too soon . however that they came from the same parts will appear very probable from what bede speaks of the picts coming from scythia ( i. e. scandinavia ) in their long boats , and being carried by tempest to the northern parts of ireland , he saith they there found gentem scotorum , i. e. their countreymen the scythians ; and they would fain have settled there with them . and when they came to treat , we find no difficulty as to their understanding one another , which there would have been , if the scots had come out of spain and the picts out of scandinavia . i know bede there makes the picts and scots languages to be different ; but so they might be in continuance of time , although at first of the same original ; as appears by the several languages now in europe , derived from the original gothick or scythick tongue , which is mother to most of them ; onely the celtick and latin being mixed with it . but to return to bede , he saith , the scots persuaded the picts to go to britain , and take possession of the northern parts , as the britains had done of the southern . after this they obtained wives from the scots in ireland ; which shews familiarity and mutual confidence ( as being of the same extraction ) and the picts engaged that in a disputable case , the scotish line should be prefer'd to their own . in process of time , saith bede , some of the scots themselves , hearing of the goodness of the western parts of scotland , went thither under the conduct of reuda , and either by force or friendship took possession of them ; and from thence they were called dalreudini , from this reuda and daal which signifies a share or portion . this is all the account bede gives of this matter ; wherein there is not a word of gathelus and scota , or of fergus his coming in the time of alexander , or any time after . and it is somewhat strange , that such a man as bede , so inquisitive into these matters , so well acquainted with the story of icolmkil , or of the monks of hy or jona should say nothing of all this . for he seems to have concealed nothing he knew or had heard of ; and stuffs out his books with some not very probable relations . and therefore it is not likely he would have omitted the former stories if he had heard of them . ( . ) the second argument of any seeming force in the advocate 's discourse is , that their histories were first transmitted to posterity by the druids in verses ; and it is probable some of these druids being converted , became their first monks , and so it was easie for them to inform their monasteries , and that the monks at iona or icolmkill kept the records there from the foundation of the monastery about a. d. . where their kings were buried untill the reign of malcolm can-more ; that they had annals in other monasteries , as at scoon , paslay , pluscardin and lindesfern , abercorn and melross ; and that they had historians who compiled histories from them ; among whom he reckons as the most ancient veremundus a spaniard , a. d. . who dedicated his history to malcolm can-more ; and joh. campbell , turgott and alredus rivallensis , who wrote of their affairs before fordon . and he goes about to prove veremundus could not be counterfeited by hector boethius , because he is cited by balaeus , holinshed , gesner , chambers ; and because hector gives an account to james v. that he was sent him from icolmkill . which is the substance of what he saith about their old histories before fordon . to which i answer , ( . ) that here we have a very formal pedigree of historians , which might with equal probability have been carried back to gathelus his first coming out of egypt . for it is very hard to suppose so great a prince , and son to a king of athens , should be without his druids , or sanachies , or bards , who would transmit to posterity his famous actions ; and therefore i cannot but wonder , that the learned advocate should seem to stick at their ancient origination and descent ; and be so unwilling to go any farther back than their first settlement in scotland . for no doubt the history of gathelus and scota were transmitted to posterity the very same way that the other was ; and the same arguments will indifferently serve for both . nay , why should the british history be questioned ? since no doubt the britains had druids , sanachies and bards as well as the scots or irish. and yet the advocate will by no means allow the british antiquities , although they pretend to the very same grounds which he makes use of to support the scottish . if the druids were good historians in scotland , why not much rather among the britains ; where caesar saith they had their original institution and the most sacred authority . but buchanan absolutely denies that the druids ever wrote histories ; and he affirms from caesar , that when he came hither they had no records or way of preserving the memory of things past ; and tacitus and gildas could meet with no certain account from domestick histories . and as to his sanachies and bards , i shall onely give him buchanan's answer in his own words . quod autem ad bardos & seneciones veteris memoriae custodes quidam confugiunt , prorsus perridicule faciunt . which he proves , because the bards were an ignorant sort of people , that had no monuments of antiquity ; and the sanachies were men wholly without learning , and who lived by flattering great men ; and therefore no certain account of things can be expected from them . and withall , saith he , since we find historians liable to so many mistakes after all the pains and care they take to search after the truth of things , what credit can be given to those who pretend to deliver history merely by their memories ? but the advocate objects , that the laws of lycurgus were preserved in the memories of men for years , as plutarch observes ; and the scots and other nations have preserved laws for much longer time , without the help of letters . but is there no difference between laws of daily practice , and antiquities , which depend merely upon memory , where there is no use of letters ? and as to laws themselves i shall onely desire the learned advocate to give an account of their macalpine laws , which fordon saith were composed by kenneth , who subdued the picts . i know that hector boethius , who stands out at nothing , pretends to deliver them as exactly as if he had lived at that time ; and lesly who follows him very carefully , sets them down as he found them in him . but what ancient copy do they produce for these laws ? not one word of that . but was it not fit that he who had so many kings should make a body of laws too ? fordon never pretends to know them , onely he thinks there were some of them still remaining . joh. major takes no notice of them ; buchanan just mentions them , and saith they continued long after him , but how long he could not tell . but it is observable , that when he comes to mention the laws of alexander iii. so long after him ( for he died a. d. . and the other , according to him , a. d. ) he saith they were all antiquated by the negligence of the people and the length of time. now if the laws so much later were quite forgotten , how come the macalpin laws to be so exactly preserved ? but it may be there was another chest of laws at icolmkill , besides that of mss. which hector boethius saith fergus brought from the sacking of rome in the time of alaric . yet even that would prove that records are the best preservers of laws ; and one would think no advocate in the world could be of another opinion . ( . ) from the druids i proceed to the first monks of scotland , who are said to have left records in their monasteries of the history of former times . the first monastery there , is confessed to be that of the island iona , or hy , or icolmkill , i. e. hy the cell of columba , founded about the year . and there , the advocate saith , their records were kept from the foundation to the reign of malcolm can-more . now we are fallen into an age of some light , such as it is , but whether it will be to the advocate 's satisfaction i know not . for cummeneus albus and adamnanus , both abbats of hy not long after columba , have given an account of columba the founder of that monastery ; and both wrote before bede's time . by them it appears that columba came out of ireland thither ; and adamnanus saith , he was the son of fedlimid the son of fergus , which fergus , say the irish antiquaries , was second husband to erica daughter of loarn , brother to fergus , who carried the first colony into scotland ; and that fergus , grandfather to columba , was son to conallus , grandchild to niellus magnus king of ireland about a. d. . in whose time st. patrick was carried captive into ireland . and so from the time of columba's coming , and his relation to the kings both of scotland and ireland , they have endeavoured to fix the time of fergus his coming with the first colony into scotland . the account they give in short is this , that carbre riada was one of the sons of conar ii. king of ireland , about a. d. . from him the family and countrey where they lived was called dalrieda ( and they while in ireland were styled kings of dalrieda ) from him descended eric the father of loarn , and fergus who went into scotland . to this fergus succeeded domangardus , comgallus , gauranus and conallus , the son of comgallus , in whose time columba came into scotland ; for adamnanus saith he conversed with conallus the son of comgill ; who according to tigernacus and the ulster annals gave the island hy to columba . but bede saith it was given by the picts whom columba converted to the christian faith. which must seem strange , if the scots then had the possession of those parts ; and therefore the learned primate of armagh inclines to the former opinion . the same tigernacus in the irish annals makes fergus the son of eric to have carried over the dalredians into britain six years after the death of st. patrick ; and the old authour cited by camden confirms the succession of fergus from conar , and his being the first king of albany ; which agrees with the irish antiquaries saying that carbre riada the ancestour to fergus , was the son of conar monarch of ireland . but suppose all this , that columba was descended from one fergus and related to the other , who went over with the dalredians into scotland ; and that he was there in the time of conallus son to comgill , grandchild to this fergus , how doth it hence appear that there was not another fergus long before , and a succession of kings in scotland from him ? to this the irish antiquaries reply , that their ancient annals do give a clear account of this fergus his race and time of going into scotland , but although they have the succession of the kings of ireland long before , and the remarkable things done in their time , yet there is no mention at all of any fergus or his successours going to settle in britain before this time . they do believe that there were excursions made by some of the kings of ireland before ; and i see no reason to question it , even before the times mentioned by gildas ; but they utterly deny any foundation of a monarchy there by scots going out of ireland before the time of fergus the son of eric , and that years later than the scotish antiquaries do place his coming ; for they make the first coming of this colony to be a. d. . just the time which the bishop of st. asaph had pitched upon ; but according to their antiquities , loarn the elder brother was first king , and he dying fergus succeeded a. d. . and because his race succeeded in that kingdom , therefore fergus is supposed to have been founder of the monarchy . the question now comes to this , whether the irish or the scotish antiquaries go upon the better grounds ? for , here the advocate 's common places of historical faith , common fame , domestick tradition , &c. can determine nothing since these are equal on both sides , and yet there is a contradiction to each other about a matter of fact. we must then appeal to the records on both sides ; and those who can produce the more authentick testimonies from thence are to be believed . the advocate pleads that it is very credible that they had such , because they had druids and sanachies and monks as well as those in ireland ; and that columba founded a monastery at icolmkill , and their kings were buried there for a long time . but where are the annals of that monastery ? or of any other near that time ? to what purpose are we told of the monasteries that were at scoon , and paslay , and pluscardin , and lindesfern , and abercorn , unless their books be produced ? it is by no means satisfactory to say they had two books , their register or chartulary , and their black book wherein their annals were kept , for we desire to see them of what colour soever they be , and to be convinced by testimonies out of them , if they appear of sufficient authority . but if these cannot be produced , let them print the full account of irish kings , which the advocate in his advertisement saith , he had lately seen in a very old ms. brought from icolmkill , written by carbre lifachair , who lived six generations before st. patrick and so about our saviour's time . st. patrick died about the end of the fifth century , being above years old , if the irish historians may be believed ; but how six generations will reach from his birth to about our saviour's time , is not easie to understand . for although the ancients differ'd much in computing generations ; yet censorinus saith they generally called or years by the name of a generation . herodotus indeed extends a generation to years , yet even that will over doe here . but who was this carbre lifachair , who wrote so long since ? i find one of that name among the kings of ireland , about a. d. . and therefore i am apt to suspect that some body not very well versed in the irish language , finding this name among the kings , made him the authour of the book . and the irish antiquaries speak with some indignation against those scotish writers who pretend to debate these matters of antiquity relating to the irish nation , without any skill in the irish language . for this debate doth not concern the saxons in scotland ( as all the lowlanders are still called by the highlanders ) and many of the best families of their nobility setled there in the time of malcolm canmoir , after he had married the sister to edgar ; but it relating wholly to those who came out of ireland , the irish antiquaries think it reasonable it ought to be determined by the irish annals . but will not the same objections lie against the irish antiquities which have been hitherto urged against the scotish ? for why should we believe that the original irish were more punctual and exact in their annals than those who went from thence into scotland ? i answer , that a difference is to be made concerning the irish antiquities . for they either relate to what hapned among them before christianity was received in ireland or after . as to their remote antiquities , they might have some general traditions preserved among them , as that they were peopled from britain and scythia , and had successions of kings time out of mind ; but as to their exact chronology , i must beg leave as yet to suspend my assent . for bollandus affirms that the irish had no use of letters till saint patrick brought it among them ; at which their present antiquary is much offended ; and runs back to the druids , as the learned advocate doth . but neither of them have convinced me that the druids ever wrote annals . all that caesar saith is , that in gaul they made use of the greek letters ; which they might easily borrow from the greek colony at marseilles ; but how doth it appear that they used these letters in ireland or scotland ? or that they any where used them in any matters of learning ; which seems contrary to the institution of the druids , who were all for memory , as caesar saith , and thought books hurtfull to the use of it . so that nothing could be more repugnant to their discipline , than the tracts of the druids , which st. patrick is said to have cast into the fire . but i do not deny that they might have genealogies kept up among them by their druids and sanachies and bards , who made it their business ; and so it was in scotland , as appears by the highlanders repeating the genealogy of alexander iii. by heart . but the great errour lay in fixing times and places , and particular actions according to the names of those genealogies . and this was the true reason of the mistake as to the scotish antiquities . for the genealogists carrying the pedigree of fergus the son of erk , so much farther back , some afterwards either imagined themselves or would have others think , that all those mentioned before him were kings in scotland , as fergus was ; which by degrees was improved into a formal story of forty kings . and i am very much confirmed in this conjecture , because i find in the genealogy in fordon , the descent of fergus , the son of erk from conar the irish monarch , as it is in the irish genealogies , and that by rieda , called by them carbre riada , by the other eochoid ried , and several other names are the very same we now find in the genealogy of the irish kings ; as eochoid , father to erc , aengus , fedlim , conar , the son of ederskeol , and so up to fergus , called in the irish catalogue of kings fergusius fortamalius , ( whom the authour of the synchronism makes contemporary with ptolemy philometor . ) from whence i conclude , that the original mistake lay in applying the irish genealogy to the kings of scotland . but if we go beyond these genealogies in ireland , and come to examine the matters of fact relating to their remote antiquities , we shall find no more certainty there , than we have done in scotland . and it is ingenuously confessed by tigernacus in his annals , that all their antiquities to the reign of kimbaithus , their . king , are very uncertain ; but he might have gone farther , and done no injury to truth . however we cannot but acknowledge it to be a great piece of ingenuity to own so much in those times when fabulous antiquities were so much cried up and believed . but what becomes then of caesarea , baronna and balba , with fifty other women and but three men coming from ireland just forty days before the floud ; and the fifteenth day of the moon ? what becomes of partholanus and his company , who arrived in ireland the th year after the floud , in the month of may , . of the moon , and upon wednesday ? is not this wonderfull exactness at such a distance of time ? and the late antiquary confesses he doth not know , how they came to understand the day of the week and the month so well . how come they to understand , that the second colony under nemethus came to ireland , when it had been years desolate ; and after the destruction of that colony that it remained so years ? as to the milesian colony from spain , i discourse at large afterwards of it , and the authority of those annals these antiquities depend upon . but then as to later times , since christianity was among them , and some kind of learning did flourish in ireland for some time , there is greater reason to have a regard to the testimony of their most ancient annals . such are those of tigernacus , who died a. d. . and the synchronisms of flannus , who died a. d. . the historical poems of coemannus , who is celebrated as their chief antiquary , and he deduces his historical poem of the kings of ireland to a. d. . which is supposed to be the time he lived in ; modudius continues the history of their kings from a. d. . to a. d. . and he lived a. d. . but besides these , the irish antiquaries have found an irish poem of the kings of scotland , in the time of malcolm canmoir , with their names and the time of their reigns . which poem begins with loarn , and fergus the son of erc as the first kings of scotland , but takes notice of kings among the picts before ; without the least intimation of any among the scots ; which being join'd with the testimony of their genealogies and the annals of tigernacus , and of jocelin in the acts of st. patrick , they conclude sufficient to prove that there was no monarchy in scotland , till the time of this fergus of the dalredian family . and it is not improbable that bede should understand this colony under the conduct of these brethren , by his duce reuda ; because they being equal , the denomination was taken from the head of the stock ; who was rieda or reuda ; and daal the irish antiquaries say , originally signifies a stock and onely by consequence a share or portion . but the advocate still insists upon it , that in their chief monasteries they had ancient annals kept ; which must be of greater authority than these irish historical poems . this is a matter of fact , and there can be no argument drawn from the bare probability that there were such annals ; but when they are produced and compared with the irish annals of tigernacus the annals of ulster , ynisfallin , dungall and others which the irish antiquaries quote so often , besides their historical poems , we shall then be able to judge better between them in point of antiquity and credibility . at present it doth not seem so probable , that they have any such that are considerable , since they have not been alledged by so learned an advocate for their antiquities , who would not omit so material an evidence for his cause . and there is a passage in the conclusion of the continuation of fordon which makes it more than probable , they had no ancient authentick annals in the monasteries . for there it is said , that in other countries , and as he heard in england , in all their monasteries of royal foundation , there was a certain person appointed to write the passages of the present times , and after the king's death , at the next great council all these writers were to meet and to bring in their papers , which were to be compared and examined by skilfull men appointed for that purpose , and out of all one authentick chronicle was to be made , which was to be laid up in the archives of the monasteries as such , from whence the truth might be known : the like he wishes were done in scotland . from whence it follows , that there were no authentick annals in their monasteries before that time to his knowledge . buchanan , i know , doth several times quote the book of paslay , but it had been far better to have printed the book it self , since dempster saith it was in the hands of the earl of dumferlin , that others might have been better able to judge concerning it . but fordon tells us , that monastery was founded a. d. . ( or a year after , saith the chronicle of melros ) now , the very foundation of the monastery is here so late , that no great matter can be expected as to remote antiquities . that at scone , as fordon saith , was founded not much sooner , a. d. . as to abercorn , though mentioned by bede , yet buchanan saith no one could find out so much as the footsteps of it ; and so we are not like to expect much light from thence . it is very strange that buchanan onely should see the famous book of pluscardin : for books do not easily grow famous by one man's seeing them . but no great matter of antiquity is to be expected from thence , since that monastery at the soonest was founded by alexander ii. in the thirteenth century ; but dempster rather thinks , it was years after . i never heard that aidan , finan and colman left any annals at lindesfern ; nor columba or his successours at icolmkill . if any such be ever found , it will be a great favour to inquisitive men to oblige the world by publishing them , that if we are guilty of mistakes , we may rectifie them upon such great authorities when they vouchsafe to let them see the light . as to the chronicle of melrosse , lately published at oxford , we find no advantage at all to the advocate 's cause by it . but here is an odd kind of reflexion either on the ms. or the worthy publisher of it , as though it were very unfaithfull in the things relating to the scotish nation . whereas i have frequently perused the original ms. in the cotton library , which is a very fair and ancient one . and those verses he speaks of , which are omitted , are not there in the same hand , but added in the margin by another , and seem transcribed from some other book ; such verses being frequent in fordon , and it may be are the greatest monuments of antiquity they have , being agreeable to the irish historical poems . but seeing the first produced by the advocate go no farther back than alpin the father of kenneth who subdued the picts , they can afford very little light in these matters . and it had been but a reasonable piece of justice in the advocate , before he had charged such unfaithfulness upon the ms. copy of mailros , as it appears in the oxford edition , to have looked either on the beginning or the end of the book ; and then he might have spared his censure . for in the preface an account is given of the verses relating to the succession of the kings of scotland : and in the end the very verses themselves are printed , and more at large than he quotes them . from the annals of their monasteries i proceed to their historians ; and the first mentioned by the advocate , is veremundus a spaniard , archdeacon of st. andrews , a. d. . who dedicated his history to malcolm canmoir ; and in his epistle appeals to the druids and monks and the monuments of antiquity kept by them in the isles of man and icolmkill . this is an evidence to the purpose , and speaks home to the point . but the bishop of st. asaph hath unhappily questioned , whether there ever were such a writer ; and i do not think the advocate hath cleared the point . there may be two things in dispute , with respect to this veremundus ; first , whether there ever were such a history appearing under the name of veremundus : and then supposing there were , whether it were genuine , or made under his name by hector boethius , or rather by his physician of aberdeen , who was so helpfull to him , saith dempster , in texenda historia , i. e. in weaving the materials for his history ? i will not dispute so much the former , and the testimony of chambers , a lord of session and learned man , as the advocate tells us , who wrote a. d. . goes no farther , nor any other produced by him . but as to the second point i am very much unsatisfied , for these reasons . ( . ) it is very well known that it was no unusual thing in that age to publish books under the names of ancient authours , which cost the criticks a great deal of pains to discover the imposture , as is apparent in the berosus , manetho , metasthenes ( or megasthenes ) philo , cato , xenophon , archilochus , sempronius , published by annius , who lived in the fifteenth century , and was buried during the popedom of alexander vi. and not onely authours , but other monuments of antiquity were then counterfeited , as appears by many in gruter's collection of inscriptions , by those of annius in italy ; and by the tuscan inscriptions published by inghiramius under the name of prosper fesulanus ; which were the invention of thomas foedrus , who lived at the same time with hector boethius . for , in that age men began to be inquisitive into matters of antiquity ; and therefore some who had more learning and better inventions than others set themselves to work , to gratifie the curiosity of such who longed to see something of the antiquities of their own countrey . and such things were so greedily swallowed by less judicious persons , that it proved no easie matter to convince such of the imposture . for even annius and prosper fesulanus , as well as veremundus have had their advocates to plead for them . ( . ) we find as to the scotish antiquities many such authours pretended to , who never wrote concerning them . as for instance , three books of the history of scotland by st. adam bishop of cathnes . auminus of the right of the culdees . king achaius his history of his predecessour . aldarus his history of scotland and ireland . st. convallanus his history of the kings of scotland . the chronicle of dumfermlin . elvanus avalonius his history of scotland . st. fastidius his chronicle of scotland . fergus the great his epistles to the scots . fulgentius his epistle to donald king of scotland in the time of severus . st. glacianus his history of scotland . st. glodianus his chronicle of the picts , cited by veremundus , saith dempster . galdus his epistles to the britains . hunibertus his scotish chronicle . kenneth's epitome of his laws . st. machorius of the destruction of the picts . st. minnanus of the vnion of the scots and picts . marcerius of the coming of the scots into albion : he is said to be their first authour , and out of him veremundus , saith dempster , took the foundation of his history ; but i do not find that any man besides ever saw him . king reuther's scotish history . salifax bardus his genealogy of their kings in king reuther's time . here we have no less than authours relating to their antiquities , every one mentioned as genuine by dempster ; and yet as far as we can find , not one of the whole number was so . is it then any wonder , that veremundus should be reckon'd among the rest ? ( . ) no such authour was known to fordon , as far as appears by his history ; and he is very punctual in quoting the authours he makes use of , and sometimes transcribes large passages out of them ; as out of baldredus , as he calls him , and turgot's life of malcolm , &c. jocelin de furnes , vincentius , adamnanus , and any old legends or chronicles he could meet with , as chronica de abernethy , & variae chronicae upon many occasions . i do not therefore deny that fordon doth appeal to chronicles before him ; but i think the argument so much stronger against veremundus ; when one who gathered all he could meet with never once takes notice of him , as far as i can find . ( . ) william elphinston , ( chancellour of scotland , bishop of aberdeen , and founder of the vniversity there , a man highly commended by hector boethius ) did , as hector himself tells us in his epistle to james v. search all scotland for monuments of antiquity , and gave the first intimation of veremundus in the island iona , and followed him exactly in writing his history . now as it happily falls out , this very history of elphinstoun is in being among us , and i have at this time by me eight books of it , which go as far as the thirteenth century . he tells the story of gathelus and scota , as others had done before him ; or rather , just as fordon had set it down . for there is very little variation from him in all the first book , onely the eighth chapter in fordon is very much contracted ; the fifteenth about gathelus his building the city brigantia in spain is transposed , another chapter being set before it . in the seventeenth he follows fordon exactly about the posterity of gathelus coming into ireland ; and whereas fordon onely quotes grossum caput for saying that scotia had its name from scota , the most noble person in that colony ; he saith it was in some chronica ; but what chronica was ever written by grosthead , deserves to be enquired . for it is certain fordon quotes him in other places about scota and the scots . which makes me wonder that dempster doth not put him among his scotish writers ; but as far as i can perceive , he never read fordon ; nor saw elphinston . in chap. . where fordon quotes an old chronicle which affirms that gaithelus gave the same laws to his people which phoroneus did to the greeks ; and that the scots to this day glory that they have those laws : this last clause elphinstoun left out ; and he passes over chap. . where the miserable condition of the posterity of gathelus in spain for years is set down . in some following chapters he confutes geoffrey of monmouth in the very words of fordon , and uses his very expressions about the first peopling of scotland from ireland , the coming of the picts , and the hard usage of the scots by them , and fergus his going over out of ireland ; in all which not one authority is cited which is not in fordon , and not the least intimation of any such authour as veremundus . in the second book he follows fordon , not onely in other things before , but when he describes the islands of scotland , and particularly jona ; onely he leaves out fordon's hebrew etymology , making iona and columba the same ; and he saith not one word of any library or records kept there , or any old histories and annals to be there found , as hector boethius affirms ; all that he saith is , that there was a sanctuary for transgressours . about fergus and rether he varies not a tittle from fordon , and never mentions any other kings of that race ; which he would never have omitted if he had known such an authour as veremundus . and he doth not suppose that rether succeeded fergus in the kingdom of scotland , but that he came afresh from ireland ; and so makes this the second coming of the scots out of ireland : which plainly overthrows the constant succession of the monarchy from fergus in scotland : and he names no one king of scotland from rether to eugenius , who was banished with all the scots . in the beginning of the third book he gives an account after fordon of fergus the son of erk coming into scotland , and he reckons kings between the two fergusses , just as fordon doth ; and he desires to be excused , as he did , for not setting down distinctly the times of their several reigns , because he could not then find any writings about them ; his words are ad praesens non in scriptis reperimus . now from this expression i thus argue against hector boethius his veremundus : he saith , that elphinstoun gave the first intimation of him , and that followed him in his history ; either therefore veremundus gave no account of this first succession , which hector pretends to have from him ; and so his authority signifies nothing at all in this matter ; or elphinston never saw him ; for he saith , he never could find any history of this first succession . and therefore if ever there were such a book under the name of veremundus , it was after elphinston's days . for having searched the whole nation for ancient writings , and particularly jona , as hector testifies , and finding no history of the succession from fergus , as himself declares , it is a plain evidence , that hector boethius hath given a false account of elphinston in relation to veremundus , and in all probability of veremundus too . but this is not all , for elphinston doth not onely say , that he could not find any books relating to the succession of the kings from fergus , but he refers his readers to the old irish annals ; his words are , ad antiquos hiberniae libros referimus . so that according to elphinston's judgment the most certain account of their antiquities is to be taken from the irish authours . and so we may observe both in him and fordon , the irish legends of s. brendan and others , served them for very good authorities . and so much for the advocate 's ancient historian veremundus the spaniard . for i suppose the mention of him by bale , gesner , hollinshed , &c. after he was so much celebrated by hector boethius , deserves no farther consideration . but vossius did not think him worth mentioning ; and although he blames luddus ( as the advocate calls him ) or humphry lhuyd , for being too severe upon hector boethius , yet it is evident that he looked on him as a fabulous writer , and so durst not set him down on his authority . the advocate would excuse this censure of vossius , as though it related onely to his credulity in point of miracles , whereas there is not the least intimation that way ; and vossius saith that leland on the account of his fabulousness wrote sharp verses upon him . what! for his having believed too many miracles ? no certainly , but for his fabulous antiquities . but he hopes to bring hector boethius better off from the censure of bishop gavin dowglas , which the bishop of st. asaph takes notice of from polydore virgil , because bishop dowglas died a. d. . and boethius his history was not published till . and he had not his records from icolmkill till . to which i answer , that this looks like one of the miracles the advocate confesses that hector did too easily report . for if he had the records on which this history was built but in . how came his history to be published the following year ? for he makes use of veremundus his authority in the very beginning of his history , for the scotish antiquities both in spain , ireland and albany . in his second book he saith , whatever he had written of the ancient kings of scotland , he had taken out of veremundus , campbell and cornelius hibernicus ; all which he pretended to have had from icolmkill . in his third book about caesar's expedition , he still pretends to follow veremundus . and in his seventh book he declares he had kept close to him in the whole series of his history . now how was this possible if he had never seen veremundus till a. d. . and his history was published by badius ascensius at paris , a. d. . it would take up that year in sending it thither , and revising and correcting and publishing so large a volume as his history makes . so that there must be some great mistake , as to the year of his receiving those records , if he ever did . but if this were not the history bishop dowglas censured , what other was there at that time which could deserve it ? it could not be joh. major , for his book was printed by badius ascensius after dowglas his death : ( if he died , as he saith , a. d. . ) and he pretends to no new discoveries , as boethius doth . but why should the advocate imagine his history was not known by the learned men at home , such as bishop dowglas was , before it was printed ? but to return to vossius , who is not sparing in mentioning any of our mss. historians which he found well attested : and particularly aelredus , abbat of rhieval , who wrote the life of david king of scots . but the advocate tells us some news concerning him , viz. that he was abbat of mailros , which was called ryval before king david 's time . but fordon expresly distinguisheth the two monasteries of rieval and melros ; the one , he saith , was founded by king david , a. d. . and the latter four years after . and in the chronicle of melros it appears that richard was the first abbat there ; to whom waltheof succeeded , vncle to king malcolm , a. d. . ( who succeeded king david a. d. . ) after waltheof william was abbat of mailros , a. d. . after him jocelin , a. d. . in the mean time aelredus dies abbat of rieval , a. d. . and silvanus was chosen in his place . from whence it is plain that the abbies of melros and rieval were always distinct from their first foundation , and that alredus was never abbat of melros . this aelredus may be called a scotish historian , for his lamentation of king david extant both in fordon and elphinston ; but i can find nothing of his writing relating to the scotish antiquities . i know he wrote a chronicon , which boston of bury ( who calls him adelredus ) saith was deduced from adam to henry i. but if there had been any thing in it to their purpose , those authours who cite a great deal out of it , relating to our saxon kings , would never have omitted what had been much more material to their history . turgott is likewise mentioned by vossius , though a ms. historian ; because he saw very good evidence for his writing some part of the scotish history . he lived saith the advocate a. d. . i grant that he is frequently cited by fordon and elphinston , for the acts of malcolm and margaret which he wrote ; but i can find no more out of him than out of aelred as to their remote antiquities ; although they seem to have left out very little of what turgott wrote . but i wonder how the advocate came to discover turgott to have been arcshbishop of st. andrews ; when dempster could have informed him that there was no archbishop of st. andrews till years after . and he might have found in fordon , that there was no archbishop of st. andrews till after james kennedy , who was bishop of st. andrews , a. d. . and was nephew to james i. but after his death patrick graham first obtained the metropolitan right to the see of st. andrews , but it was not quietly enjoyed till his successour will. sheues came into possession of his place . but there is in fordon an account of the succession of the bishops of st. andrews from the time of the expulsion of the picts ; which is wholly left out in elphinston ; and there turgott is said to be consecrated bishop a. d. . and to continue there seven years . st. andrews was before called kilremont , as appears by fordon , who calls them the bishops of st. andrews de kilremont ; kil , as appears by the scotish historians , was a place of devotion ; kilruil was the church of regulus ( as hector saith st. andrews was called in the time of the picts ) and kilremont , as being the royal seat and the principal church , for remont is mons regis ; and from hence the clergy of this church were called killedees ( from which title the fiction of the ancient culdees came , as the bishop of st. asaph hath truly observed . ) these killedees had the ancient right of chusing the bishop , and were first excluded , as fordon saith by william wishart , a. d. . and next by william fraser , after him by william lamberton ; upon which william cumyng keldeorum praepositus , i. e. dean of the church appealed to rome , but was overruled there . but the learned primate of armagh following dempster too much , calls him auminus ; and yet dempster quotes the scotichronicon for it , where it is plainly william cumyng . but that the killdees were nothing but the dean and chapter of st. andrews , not onely appears by their right of election of the bishop , but by the exercise of the jurisdiction in the vacancy of the see , which fordon saith was in them . i should not so much have insisted on this mistake of the advocate in making turgott archbishop of st. andrews if he had not so severely reflected on the bishop of st. asaph for making fordon a monk , as though he did it merely for his own conveniency to shew him interested for the independency of monks and caldees from the bishops . i grant it was a mistake but not designed , and a very pardonable one , since dempster saith some thought him a monk , and he could not find of what condition he was ; and yet he saith he read him ; and vossius makes joh. de fordon a monk in king john's time , authour of the scotichronicon . this book of fordon the advocate saith was so esteemed that there were copies of it in most of their monasteries ; and he saith did agree with their ancient annals ; which i think will appear by the precedent discourse , not to be much to the advantage of his cause . and so much for the authority of their annals and historians , from the original druids and bards to fordon and elphinston . having thus gone through the most material points , which i have not distinctly answered in the following book , there remain onely some few things , which stand in need of being farther cleared . as , ( . ) the testimony of eumenius in his panegyrick to constantius , from whence the advocate proves that in the time of caesar there was another nation besides the picts who then inhabited britain , and were a colony of the irish ; and these must certainly have been scots . the question is not , whether there were not , according to eumenius , picts and irish which the britains fought with in caesa●'s time ( just as sidonius apollinaris saith that caesar conquer'd the picts and saxons in britain , which is such another prolepsis as sirmondus observes , who makes the coming of the scots into britain after the saxons ; and he was a judicious critick and antiquary ) but the true question is , whether eumenius affirms that those irish then dwelt in britain ? yes , saith buchanan , soli britanni , are to be understood in the genitive case , and so these words relate to the picts and irish of the british soil . no , saith the bishop of st. asaph , they are to be understood in the nominative case ; and so they set forth the advantage in constantius his victory over a roman legion above that of julius caesar , who fought onely with the britains , a rude people and accustomed to no other enemies but picts and irish , a half naked people . the words are thus printed in the late paris edition , after the comparing of several mss. by claudius puteanus , and therefore more correct than the plantin edition . ad hoc natio etiam tunc rudis , & soli britanni pictis modo & hibernis assueta hostibus , adhuc feminudis , facile romanis armis signísque cesserunt . the design of the oratour , was to lessen the reputation of caesar's victory in comparison of that of constantius ; and to that purpose it was very material to shew , that he fought with the britains alone , who were themselves a rude people , and had no other enemies but such as were as rude as themselves , the picts and irish. now to what great purpose was it for him to say that the britains fought with the irish of the british soil ? were they so much better disciplined and so much more famous among the romans for deeds of arms than the original irish , that such an emphasis must be laid upon that ? but the advocate saith the comparison lies in this , that then they had been used onely to the picts and irish , but constantius overcame them when they had been long trained up in war. but if he had been pleased to have read the next paragraph he would have found the oratour taking no notice of the britains greater experience in war , but of a roman legion corrupted , foreign souldiers and gallican merchants drawn out of the provinces to strengthen carausius and allectus in their rebellion ; so that the comparison lies ▪ between the britains alone in caesar's time , and the strength of a well disciplined roman army in the time of constantius . and it is to be observed , that according to eumenius his own manner of speaking , if he were to be , understood in buchanan's sense , it should have been soli britannici for the british soil . for so he hath victoria britannica at the end of the same oration ; and in another britannica trophaea . so that neither sense nor grammar do favour buchanan's construction . but he saith ioseph scaliger approves buchanan 's construction in his notes on tibullus . i have searched the place and can find no such thing ; but i am afraid he mistook his own notes ; for there scaliger speaks about the scoto-brigantes , and which is more , he saith , the scots were yet in ireland . and because he is so accustomed to maxims of law , i shall put him in mind of one ; that a witness which a man brings for himself , he is bound to receive against himself . ( . ) as to claudian's expression , scotorum cumulos flevit glacialis ierne . he saith this is not to be understood of ireland , but of a countrey of scotland of that name , near to which the romans had a camp , the remainders whereof are still discernible ; and in which there are stones found with roman inscriptions designing the stations of the legions ; and strathern in scotland is more subject to long frosts than ireland is . this i confess is ingeniously observed . but i do not understand what the roman inscriptions prove as to the scots being in those parts of britain ; if the question were about the romans they would be of some use . i do not deny that strathern had its name from the river ern , and the countrey might in latin be called ierne from thence . but how doth it appear that claudian or the romans knew it by that name ? we are certain that ierne commonly passed for ireland among them ; and that it was then accounted the countrey of the scots ; as appears by the express testimony of orosius , who lived in that age. and dempster , who fixes the scots in britain long before , yet is so convinced by these words of claudian that they were in ireland , that he supposes them driven thither by theodosius , and there destroyed by him . and claudian explains himself elsewhere , when he saith , — totam cum scotus iernen movit , & infesto spumavit remige tethys . where it seems ridiculous to say , that the scots put all strathern into commotion ; and this ierne had the sea lying between it and britain , in whose name claudian speaks ; and buchanan understands this of ireland . ( . ) he urges the great improbability that the scots should manage so long a war , for years , and not settle in britain . but this is that which is called begging the question ; for the dispute is how long the scots in britain did make war upon the britains ? claudian saith in his time , the scots came from ierne , and made the sea foam with their oars ; gildas saith the irish usually returned home , intending to come back , and the picts then rested for a time in the farthermost parts of the isle . why should not gildas have said that the irish and picts went back to the remote parts of the island , if they both inhabited there at that time ? if gildas his authority be allowed in this case , i think it is clear enough to decide the controversie . for , ( . ) upon maximus his withdrawing the roman legions and british infantry which never returned , he saith the britains were then first infested with two cruel transmarine nations , the scots from the southwest , and the picts from the north. if there had been a war of years from before julius caesar's time , as the advocate saith , how comes gildas to be so extremely mistaken as to say the first war began after maximus his withdrawing the roman militia ? ( . ) he still speaks of their coming by sea , and carrying away their anniversary prey beyond the seas ; and trans maria fugaverunt , saith he , of the roman forces driving them back . how comes gildas still to mention the seas if they then inhabited the same island ? but the advocate saith that by seas the friths are understood ; and that in their old laws the frith of forth is called mare scotiae , the sea of scotland ; and the frith of dumbritton is called one part of the mare scoticum by the english authours ; and this passage to and fro he makes to be easie , but the other home to ireland almost impossible with their boats in the irish seas ; from whence he saith , that the bishop of st. asaph 's hypothesis is absurd and incredible , but his very consistent . to clear this we may observe , ( . ) that to make these friths to be called seas not improperly , he saith , they are miles broad in some places ; and so makes the passage more difficult over them than from ireland to scotland ; for , as camden observes , there is hardly miles distance between some part of scotland and ireland . but this is to demonstrate the consistency of his own hypothesis , and the absurdity of the bishop's . ( . ) the irish writers say , their curroghs or light boats cover'd with leather were very convenient for transporting an army , though not so proper for a sea-fight . adamnanus in the life of st. columba describes one of them in which st. cormac went to sea , with all the parts of a ship , and with sails and oars , and a capacity for passengers ; and he saith , he was out at sea days northward in it . now what absurdity or incredibility is there in it , that such vessels should convey the irish forwards and backwards over so narrow a passage as that between ireland and those parts of scotland which lay nearest to it ? why might not the irish pass those seas as well in these as the britains did in caesar's time the sea between gaul and britain ; for he saith they gave assistence to the gauls , and they had then no other kind of ships ? and caesar himself was so far from despising them , that he thought them a very usefull invention and made use of them himself in spain to transport his souldiers . the keel and masts , he saith , were made of the lightest wood , and the bodies of them of wicker , cover'd over with leather ; which he had learnt from the britains . lucan calls them little ships , and not a miserable little kind of shapeless boats , as the advocate doth . primum cana foelix madefacto vimine , parvam texitur in puppim , caesóque induta juvenco , &c. and in these he saith the britains were wont to pass the ocean . — fusóque britannus navigat oceano . — in the old mss. glossaries in the margin of josselin's gildas , curuca is rendred by navis , and not a little shapeless boat. and solinus expresly saith ( even in the place quoted by him ) that it was common to pass between ireland and britain with these curroghs . and such kind of vessels covered with leather were not onely used by the britains and irish , but by the aethiopians , aegyptians , sabeans , romans , and spaniards ; as might be shewed from the testimonies of agatharchides , strabo , virgil , pliny and others . how comes it then to be almost impossible for the irish to pass the seas in such vessels ? and wherein lies the absurdity and incredibility of the bishop's hypothesis , when he makes them to cross but miles from ireland to britain in these curroghs , and the advocate allows the friths over which they were to pass to be miles broad in some places ? and how could they be secure they should not be driven into the broadest places ? if these vessels then could convey them safely over the friths , why not as well from ireland to the nearest parts of scotland ? but i have another argument from gildas that the seas cannot be understood of the two friths , viz. that gildas saith , when the roman legion first defeated the picts and the scots , they commanded a wall to be built between the two seas to hinder their incursion : which is confirmed by bede , who saith this wall began at penneltun not far from abercorny and ended at alcluith , and was designed to keep out their enemies . now i desire to know to what purpose this wall was built between the two friths to keep out the scots and picts , if their custome was , as the advocate supposes , to cross over the two friths and to land on this side the wall ? did the romans and britains so little understand the way of their enemies coming , to put themselves to so much pains and trouble for no purpose at all ? and buchanan thinks the last stone wall made by the romans for the security of the britains , mentioned by gildas and bede , was made in the same place where he thinks severus his wall stood before . and it had been madness to erect a stone wall there to keep out the scots and picts , if they came out of scotland over the two friths and landed where the wall could do the britains no service . but gildas and bede say they attempted the wall and forced themselves a passage over it ; irrumpunt terminos saith bede ; and with their iron hooks drew the britains from the wall , saith gildas . what need all this if they came over the friths , and so left the wall between the two friths behind them ? but from hence it is very plain , that gildas knew nothing of their passing the friths and therefore must be understood of their crossing the seas from ireland to scotland , and there joining with the picts , and so marching towards the wall between the two friths in order to their passing into the roman province . and it is observable that gildas saith after the making the second wall , the scots and picts upon the romans withdrawing grew more confident and took possession of the northern part of the island as far as the wall , pro indigenis , in the place of the natives ; which shews that he looked on them as late comers , and then newly entred into possession there . the last thing i shall take notice of is concerning the early conversion of the scotish nation to the christian faith. and here i am particularly concerned to answer his arguments , since in the following book i have rejected the tradition of the scots conversion under king donald , and assert palladius to have been sent to the original scots in ireland . but the advocate thinks it so clear that they were converted before a. d. . that from thence he concludes that they were settled in scotland before that time . and it were a piece of very ill nature to deny this conclusion , if the premisses be well proved . ( . ) as to the conversion under king donald ; he shews , . that it is very probable the british christians being persecuted by the roman emperours in the southern parts , would go into the northern and propagate their religion there . but this proves onely the probability of the conversion of the northern britains and not of the scots . . he saith , the druids were prepared to receive christianity , and so would be easie to be converted themselves and ready to convert the people . he speaks soon after of a double conversion of their nation from paganism and pelagianism . methinks these words do not argue the latter conversion to have been such , as to have left no dregs behind it . for how came the druids natural improvements to facilitate their conversion more than the philosophers at athens or rome ? and the irish antiquaries say the druids there were the great opposers of the gospel . but still these druids might be among the britains and not the scots . . he saith , that donald was their first christian king , a. d. . seems most fully proved . not by any thing yet said . but what then is the full proof ? in short it is this . it was a matter of fact. very true ; matters of fact must be proved by witnesses . true again . but who are these witnesses ? even the historians of their countrey , and the annals of their monasteries . and so we are thrown back upon the debate of their authority , which i have gone through already . let it therefore rest upon their credibility ; onely remembring that no such king as donald doth appear in their most ancient genealogies . . he affirms , that baronius allows their conversion by pope victor , and he made ecclesiastick history more his task than the bishop of st. asaph , and was more disinterested . it is possible , the bishop of st. asaph may have considered ecclesiastick history with as much care as baronius himself ; but i dare say , with greater judgment and impartiality . and of all things i cannot but wonder at the advocate 's looking on baronius as more disinterested , when the conversion from a pope was in question . which shews him to be such a stranger to baronius , that one would think he had never looked into him . for dempster is displeased with baronius , as one injurious to their nation , as to this first conversion , saying that there were no christians in scotland before palladius but such as fled thither out of this part of britain because of persecution . and baronius doth wonder that such a conversion should be omitted not onely by bede but by marianus scotus . . the magdeburgian centuries , he saith , agree with baronius ; and these are the standards of ecclesiastick history to the professours of both religions . he had as good have said they were the hercules pillars and there is no passage beyond them . but no learned professours of either religion allow these to be standards . how many errours in baronius have been discovered by the learned antiquaries of his own communion ? what complaints have been made of his partiality to the court of rome , not onely by the sorbonists but by the king's advocates in france ? and as to the magdeburgians , we commend them for their noble attempt and great diligence and industry ; but matters of ecclesiastick antiquity are extremely improved since that time . more ancient authours having been published out of mss. and better editions by comparing the authours before printed with mss. and many counterfeit authours discovered and far greater enquiries have been made into all parts of ecclesiastick antiquities ; so that after so many new discoveries to make these the standards , were almost as absurd as to make ptolemy the standard for modern geography . we do not disparage what he hath done , when we say many things have been found out since his time . ( . ) as to the mission of palladius into scotland , the advocate insists on these three things , . that bede affirms that he was sent to the scots in britain . . that there is no probability in the circumstances of his being sent into ireland . . that dr. hammond yields that the scots were converted before celestine 's time ; and therefore it is more probable that palladius was sent bishop to them . to these particulars i shall give a distinct answer . ( . ) to bede's testimony , he affirms , that in the eighth of theodosius the younger , palladius was sent by celestine the first bishop to the scots believing in christ. wherein bede onely applies prosper's words to the eighth of theodosius , which he had placed under bassus and antiochus consuls ; but he doth not determine whether these scots were in ireland or in britain . but the advocate saith , all that which bede saith before and after concerning the scots relates to the scots in britain , and therefore these words are so to be understood . whereas bede in the very beginning declares , that ireland was the proper countrey of the scots ; and that dumbritton frith did anciently separate the picts and the britains ; but the scots coming afterwards to the northern part of that frith , there setled themselves . which words do evidently prove that bede did not look on the scots as ancient inhabitants there ; for then he would have said that the frith did antiquitus gentem britonum à scotis secernere ; but he never mentions the scots but the picts as the ancient inhabitants on the northern part of the frith . but , saith the advocate , bede 's title of his chapter is of the ancient inhabitants of britain , and he mentions the scots among them . very true ; but shall not bede explain himself whom he means by the ancient inhabitants , viz. the britains and picts ? for , by the advocate 's reasoning the saxons will be proved to have been in britain before julius caesar , as well as the scots ; for they make up one of the five nations spoken of in that first chapter . and so bede doth not onely settle the scots and the picts in this countrey , by his first chapter , but the english too . and it is an extraordinary sagacity that can discover this chapter in bede , to be clear to a demonstration that he makes the scots to be ancient inhabitants in britain ; whereas to my dull apprehension bede is clear the other way . but the advocate proceeds to shew , that the name of scots doth originally belong to the scots in britain , and onely by way of communication to those in ireland . this were indeed to the purpose if it were proved . and there ought to be the more care in doing it , since it is so new and singular an opinion . for even buchanan saith that the irish were at first called scots ; and from thence they passed into albany ; and that by the name scots their coming from the irish is declared . joh. major saith , that scotia among their ancestours was the common name for ireland . and if their ancient annals may be believed , the name of scot came from scota the wife of gathelus , whose posterity went first into ireland , and then carried the name into scotland . in fordon and elphinston there is another scota mentioned , as a leader of the first colony into ireland , who gave the name to that countrey of scotia ; and joh. major saith she was the mother of hiber . but whichsoever of these stands , unless the advocate will at last give up the cause of their ancient annals , which he hath contended so warmly for , he must renounce this opinion of his , that the name of scots doth originally belong to the albian scots , and onely by way of communication to the irish ; so that there is no need to produce the plain testimonies of orosius , bede and isidore , which make ireland the proper countrey of the scots . but it is a wonderfull subtilty from hence to infer , as the advocate doth , as if it might have been justly doubted , and were not true in all senses . doth he mean proper or improper senses ? their words are plain that ireland in a strict and proper sense was the countrey of the scots , i. e. the patria originis , though the other might afterwards , be patria incolatus & domicilii ; as the advocate himself doth distinguish ; but that which follows from hence is , that if the scots came originally from ireland , then the name of scots doth not originally belong to the scots in britain but to those in ireland , unless he can shew that the reason of the name doth agree to them onely upon their removal into britain . as ; to take his own instance ; no one will question that the colony of virginia are called english , because the inhabitants of the countrey from whence they came are so called . but were not the irish called scots before they went into scotland ? if not , that could not be propriè scotorum patria , as orosius and bede and isidore affirm ; as england could not be said to be the proper countrey of the english unless the inhabitants were called english ; and the colony of virginia received its denomination of being english because they came from hence . vnless therefore the advocate be pleased to shew , that the name of scots doth so belong to the irish upon their remove into britain that it could not agree to them in ireland it will be impossible for him to make out , that the name of scots doth originally belong to the irish in britain , and onely by way of communication to those in ireland . i have already shewed that jos. scaliger doth assign such a reason of the name of scoti as agrees onely to those who came over upon expeditions ; but i believe the scots will take it far better to receive their name from the irish scots , than to have had the original name given them on such an account . ( . ) as to the circumstances of palladius his mission the main difficulty objected , is from st. patrick's being sent so soon after into ireland ; which needed not have been if palladius were sent before thither and not rather into scotland , whither bale saith he went and died not , a. d. . but . this is the force of what the advocate saith upon this matter . but the bishop of st. asaph had proved from prosper , that palladius was sent to the scots in ireland ; because he distinguishes the two islands , the one he calls roman , i. e. britain , the other barbarous where the scots lived , to whom palladius was sent ; which could be no other than ireland . to which the advocate answers , that the northern part of britain was by tacitus and bede said to be reduced into an island by the roman wall from sea to sea ; and bede in other places calls the scots islanders . tacitus indeed saith , that by agricola's fortifications between the two friths , the britains were driven as into another island ; but this is a very different way of speaking from that of prosper , who makes a distinction between two proper islands . and prosper could not be ignorant that festus avienus not long before , viz. in the time of theodosius had distinguished the two islands , the one inhabited by the hiberni , and the other he calls insula albionum , which takes in all that we now call britain . but according to the old geographers , ireland was accounted one of the british islands ; as appears by the testimonies of pliny , apuleius , ptolemy , diodorus siculus and marcianus heracleota , which have been produced by others , and need not to be repeated here . but no one ever mentioned scotland as a distinct island , and therefore it is unreasonable to understand prosper in that sense . bede mentions the insulani in the chapter refer'd to ; but nothing can be plainer , than that he speaks of the britains on this side the wall ; who raised up the wall of turf between the two friths for their own security against their enemies beyond the wall. in the other place of bede , the insulani are to be understood of those of ireland , as bede clearly expresseth himself , misso in hiberniam exercitu . but the ingenious advocate hath a fetch beyond this , for he saith that bede by ireland meant scotland , which he sets himself to prove from this very passage . for , saith he , the same thing that is first said to be done in hibernia is afterwards said to be done in scotia . and might it not be so if ireland were then called scotia , as appears by the former testimonies ? but that bede could not mean any other than ireland appears from hence , that he saith , the nation which egfred invaded had been always kind to the english ; and the irish annals give an account of the very place and time of egfred's landing in ireland and the captives he carried away from thence . but bede elsewhere saith the scots in britain had been great enemies to them , as appeared by the battel at degsastan , where the whole army of the scots was almost cut off by edilfredus king of northumberland , and their king edan fled ; from which time none of the kings of scotland durst appear in the field against the english. which argues no great kindness between them ; but bede saith , that these had been nationi anglorum gens super amicissima ; and therefore his words must relate to the scots in ireland . but doth not bede say , that columbanus came from ireland to hy and so to britain ; and afterwards that colman returned to scotland , i. e. to hy from whence columba came ; therefore scotland was called ireland ; or rather , ireland was called scotia ; which is so clear in bede , that i wonder that any that carefully reade him can dispute it . he saith indeed , that the scots had a kingdom in britain , but where he speaks of the religion of the scots he then means the scots of ireland ; as will easily appear by the series of his discourse . when he speaks of laurentius his care not onely of the britains but of the scots too , he explains himself to mean those who lived in ireland , an island near to britain . columba , he saith , came from ireland to convert the northern picts , and obtained from their king the island hy , where he founded his monastery , which he saith was the chief of all the northern scots , not of those in scotland but in ireland , for in the same chapter he distinguished the scots in the southern parts of ireland , from those in the northern ; the former following the roman custome of easter , and the northern refusing it . from these aidanus came , the first scotish bishop who setled among the english , being sent for by king oswald . furseus , saith he afterwards , came from ireland , being of the most noble race of the scots ; and there he mentions the scots of his own nation , and saith he had preached a great while in scotia before he came into england ; but he never takes notice , after his coming over , of his being any where , but among the britains before he went to the east angles . after aidan's death finan came from the same scots , who persisted in the old way of the keeping easter ; after finan colman succeeded , who was missus a scotia , who maintained the same practice ; and afterwards he returned home , in scotiam regressus est ; but what he means by it bede presently informs us , when he saith that tuda succeeded who had been brought up among the southern scots , i. e. in the southern parts of ireland . tuda died of the plague , which bede saith passed into ireland , whither many english went in the time of finan and colman , who were all kindly received by the scots . when colman returned bede , saith he went first to hy , then to an island on the west of ireland ; but not a word of the northern parts of britain . afterwards he sheweth how the greatest part of the scots in ireland were brought to compliance in the point of keeping easter by means of adamnanus , who endeavoured to reduce those of hy but could not ; but upon egbert's coming to them from ireland , the scotish monks of the island hy or jona yielded , when duumchadus was abbat there . and now let any indifferent reader judge whether by scotia bede understands the northern parts of britain or ireland . but after all , doth not bede say , that the island hy did belong to britain as a part of it ? and what then follows ? doth not bede in the same place say it was given by the picts not by the scots to the scotish monks who came from ireland ? so that upon the whole matter , that which bede understands by scotia seems to be ireland , although he affirms the scots to have setled in the northern parts of britain , and to have set up a kingdom there . from whence there appears no probability of palladius's being sent to the scots in britain ; bede saying nothing of their conversion , when he so punctually sets down the conversion of the south picts by ninias a british bishop and of the northern picts by columba , a scotish or irish presbyter . but if palladius were sent to the scots in ireland , how came st. patrick to be sent so soon after him ? to this the bishop of st. asaph answers , that palladius might die so soon after his mission that pope celestine might have time enough to send st. patrick before his own death . and this he makes out by laying the several circumstances of the story together , as they are reported by authours , which the advocate calls a laborious hypothesis , and elaborate contrivance to divert all the unanswerable authorities proving that palladius was se●t to them in scotland , a. d. . what those unanswerable authorities are , which prove palladius sent to the scots in britain i cannot find . and for all that i see by this answer , the onely fault of the bishop's hypothesis is , that it is too exact , and doth too much clear the appearance of contradiction between the two missions . ( . ) as to dr. hammond's testimony ( who is deservedly called by the advocate a learned and episcopal english divine ) it is very easily answered . for , . he looks on the whole story of the scots conversionfs as very uncertainly set down by authours . . he saith , that bozius applies the conversion under victor to ireland then called scotia ; for which he quotes bede . . that neither marianus scotus nor bede do take the least notice of it . . that if prosper's words be understood of the scots in britain , yet they do not prove the thing designed by his adversaries , viz. that the churches there were governed by presbyters without bishops ; for prosper supposes that they remained barbarous still , and therefore the plantation was very imperfect , and could not be understood of any formed churches . but the advocate very wisely conceals one passage which overthrows his hypothesis , viz. that they could not be supposed to receive the first rudiments of their conversion from rome , viz. under pope victor , since the scots joined with the britains in rejecting the roman customs . from whence we see that dr. hammond was far from being of the advocate 's mind in this matter ; and what he proposes as to some rudiments of christianity in scotland before palladius his coming thither , was onely from an uncertain tradition , and for reconciling the seeming differences between bede and prosper ; or rather for reconciling prosper to himself . but i remember the advocate 's observation in the case of their predecessour's apology against edward i. viz. that they designed , as most pleaders do , to gain their point at any rate ; and how far this eloquent advocate hath made good this observation through his discourse i leave the reader to determine . having thus gone through all the material parts of the advocate 's book , i shall conclude with a serious protestation that no pique or animosity led me to this undertaking , no ill will to the scotish nation , much less to the royal line , ( which i do believe hath the advantage in point of antiquity above any other in europe , and as far as we know , in the world. ) but i thought it necessary for me to enquire more strictly into this defence of such pretended antiquities ; both because i owed so much service to so worthy and excellent a friend as the bishop of st. asaph , and because if the advocate 's arguments would hold good they would overthrow several things i had asserted in the following book ; and withall i was willing to let the learned nobility and gentry of that nation see how much they have been imposed upon by hector boethius and his followers ; and that the true honour and wisedom of their nation is not concerned in defending such antiquities , which are universally disesteemed among all judicious and inquisitive men. and it would far better become persons of so much ingenuity and sagacity , to follow the examples of other european nations , in rejecting the romantick fables of the monkish times , and at last to settle their antiquities on firm and solid foundations . as to the following book , it comes forth as a specimen of a greater design ( if god gives me life and opportunity ) which is to clear the most important difficulties of ecclesiastical history . and because i look on a general church-history , as too heavy a burthen to be undergone by any man , when he is fit for it by age and consideration , i have therefore thought it the better way to undertake such particular parts of it which may be most usefull , and i have now begun with these antiquities of the british churches ; which may be followed by others as i see occasion . but i hope none will have just cause to complain that i have not used diligence or faithfulness enough in this present work , or that i have set up fancies and chimaera's of my own instead of the true antiquities of the british churches . i have neither neglected nor transcribed those who have written before me ; and if in some things i differ from them ; it was not out of the humour of opposing any great names , but because i intended not to deliver other mens judgements , but my own . errata . in the preface : page . line . for but he did it reade for doing it . p. . l. . for and r. surely . p. . l. . for but r. yet . p. . l. . for cladroe r. cadroe . p. . l. . after had insert made . p. . l. . for a generation r. three generations , and for overdoe r. not doe . p. . l. . for . foelix r. salix . in the book : page . l. . dele and. p. . l. . for under floo r. understood . p. . l. . for with r. and. p. . for dioclesian r. diocletian , and so throughout . p. . l. . for alexander r. alexander . p. . l. . for . put , p. . l. . for council r. church . p. . l. . for frecalphus r. freculphus . p. . l. . instead of but r. whereas . p. . l. , . dele but now the britains were . p. . l. . for edecus r. ederus . p. . l. . for egypt r. europe . p. . l. . for erimthon r. erimhon . p. . l. . for eanus r. edanus . p. . l. . for authemius r. anthemius . p. . l. . scicambri r. sicambri . . l. . for when r. whom . p. . l. . for island r. iseland . the contents . chap. i. of the first planting a christian church in britain by s. paul. no christian church planted in britain during the reign of tiberius , page . gildas his words misunderstood , p. . the tradition concerning joseph of arimathea and his brethren coming to glassenbury at large examined , p. . the pretended testimonies of british writers disproved , p. . st. patrick's epistle a forgery , p. . of the saxon charters , especially the large one of king ina. p. . the antiquity of seals in england , p. . ingulphus his testimony explained , p. . all the saxon charters suspicious till the end of the seventh century , p. , . the occasion of this tradition from an old british church there , p. , , . the circumstances about joseph of arimathea and arviragus very improbale , p. . sir h. spelman vindicated , p. . the state of the roman province about that time , p. . no such king as arviragus then , p. . not the same with caractacus , p. . a christian church proved to be planted here in the apostles times , p. . the authentick testimonies of eusebius , theodoret , clemens romanus to that purpose , p. . st. paul in probability the first founder of a church here , p. . the time and opportunity he had for it after his release , p. . of pomponia graecina and claudea rufina christians at rome , and their influence on his coming hither , p. . st. peter and st. paul compared as to their preaching here , and the far greater probability of st. paul's , p. . chap. ii. of the succession of the british churches to the first council of nice . the testimony of tertullian concerning them cleared , p. . the national conversion of the scots under king donald fabulous . p. . of dempster's old annals , p. . prosper speaks not of the scots in britain , p. . the testimony of severus sulpicius examined , p. . several testimonies of origen concerning the british churches in his time , p. . the different traditions about king lucius , p. . the state of the roman province here overthrows his being king over all britain , p. . great probability there was such a king in some part of britain , and then converted to christianity , p. . a conjecture proposed in what part of britain he reigned , p. . the most probable means of his conversion , and the story cleared from monkish fables , p. . of dioclesian's persecution in britain , and the stopping of it by means of constantius , p. . the flourishing of the british churches under constantine , p. . the reason of three bishops of britain onely present in the council of arles , p. . of the great antiquity of episcopal government here , p. . of geffrey's flamines and archiflamines how far agreeable to the roman constitution , p. . maximinus his pagan hierarchy in imitation of the christian , p. . the canons of the council of arles not sent to the pope to confirm , but to publish them , p. . chap. iii. of the succession of the british churches from the council of nice to the council of ariminum . great probabilities that the british bishops were present in the council of nice , p. . the testimonies of constantine's being born in britain cleared , p. . the particular canons of that council explained , p. . especially those relating to the government of churches , p. . how far the right of election was devolved to the bishops . p. . of the authority of provincial synods there settled , p. . particular exceptions as to the bishops of alexandria , rome and antioch from ancient custome . p. . they had then a patriarchal power within certain bounds , p. . no metropolitans under the bishops of rome and alexandria . p. . the just rights of the british churches cleared . p. . no evidence that they were under the roman patriarchate , p. . the cyprian privilege vindicated from all late exceptions , p. . the patriarchal rights examined ; and from them the pope's patriarchal power over the western churches , at large disputed and overthrown , p. . pope leo's arguments against the patriarch of constantinople held for the western churches against him , p. . the british bishops present in the councill of sardica with those of gaul , p. . what authority granted by them to the bishop of rome , and how far it extends p. . chap. iv. of the faith and service of the british churches . the faith of the british churches enquired into , p. . the charge of arianism considered , ibid. the true state of the arian controversie from the council of nice to that of ariminum ; and some late mistakes rectified , p. . of several arian councils before that of ariminum , p. . the british churches cleared from arianism after it , p. . the number and poverty of the british bishops there present , ibid. of the ancient endowment of churches before constantine , p. . the privileges granted to churches by him , p. . the charge of pelagianism considered , p. . pelagius and caelestius both born in these islands , p. . when aremorica first called britain , ibid. what sort of monk pelagius was , p. . no probability of his returning to britain , p. . of agricola and others spreading the pelagian doctrine in the british churches , p. . germanus and lupus sent by a council of gallican bishops hither to stop it , p. . the testimony of prosper concerning their being sent by caelestine considered , p. . of fastidius a british bishop , p. . london the chief metropolis in the roman government , p. . of faustus originally a britain but a bishop in gaul , and the great esteem he had there , p. . of the semipelagians and praedestinatians , p. . of the schools of learning set up here by the means of germanus and lupus , p. . dubricius and iltutus the disciples of st. german , and of their schools , p. . of the monastery of banchor , and the ancient western monasteries , and their difference as to learning from the benedictine institution , p. . of gildas his iren , whether an university in britain , p. . of the schools of learning in the roman cities , chiefly at rome , alexandria and constantinople , and the professours of arts and sciences , and the publick libraries there , p. . of the schools of learning in the provinces , and the constitution of gratian to that purpose extending to britain . p. . of the publick service of the british churches ; the gallican offices introduced by st. german , p. . the nature of them at large explained , and their difference from the roman offices , both as to the morning and communion service , p. . the conformity of the liturgy of the church of england to the ancient british offices , and not derived from the church of rome , as our dissenters affirm , p. . chap. v. of the declension of the british churches . britain never totally subdued by the romans , p. . that was the occasion of the miseries of the britains in the province by the incursions from beyond the wall , p. . of the picts and scots their mortal enemies , p. . the true original of the picts from scandinavia , p. . that name given to the new colonies , not to the old inhabitants , p. . the scotish antiquities enquired into , p. . fordon's account of them compared with that of hector boethius and buchanan , p. . of veremundus , cornelius hibernicus and their ancient annals , p. . the modern pleas for their antiquities considered , p. , . an account of the antiquities of ireland , and of the authority of their traditions and annals compared with geffrey's british antiquities in point of credibility , p. . a true account of the fabulous antiquities of the northern nations , p. . the first coming of the scots into britain according to the irish writers , p. . the first cause of the declension of the british churches was the laying them open to the fury of the scots and picts , p. . of maximus his withdrawing the roman forces , and the emperours sending numbers of picts to draw them back , p. . the miserable condition of the britains thus forsaken , and supplies sent them for a time and then taken away , p. . of the walls built for their security , and the roman legions there placed , p. . the great degeneracy of manners among the britains , p. . of intestine divisions and calling in foreign assistence , p. . of the saxons coming , who they were , and whence they came , p. . bede's account examined and reconciled with the circumstances of those times , p. . of the reasons of vortigern's calling in the saxons , p. . of the dissatisfaction of the britains upon their coming , and vortigern's league with them , p. . of the valour of vortimer and aurelius ambrosius against the saxons , p. . the different account of the battels between the britains and saxons among our historians , p. . the sad condition of the british churches at that time , ibid. the imperfect account given by the british history , p. . of king arthur's story and success , p. . of persons in greatest reputation then in the british churches , and particularly of st. david , p. . of the britains passing over to aremorica , and the beginning of that colony , p. . gildas there writes his epistle ; the scope and design of it , p. . the british kings he writes to , p. . the independency of the british churches proved from their carriage towards augustin the monk , p. . the particulars of that story cleared , and the whole concluded . p. . a catalogue of books published by the reverend edward stillingfleet , d. d. dean of st. paul's , and sold by henry mortlock , at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . a rational account of the grounds of the protestant religion ; being a vindication of the lord archbishop of canterbury's relation of a conference , &c. from the pretended answer of t. c. wherein the true grounds of faith are cleared , and the false discovered ; the church of england vindicated from the imputation of schism , and the most important particular controversies between us and those of the church of rome throughly examined ; the second edition : folio . sermons preached upon several occasions , with a discourse annexed concerning the true reasons of the sufferings of christ , wherein crellius his answer to grotius is considered : folio . origines britannicae , or the antiquities of the british churches , with a preface concerning some pretended antiquities relating to britain , in vindication of the bishop of st. asaph : folio . irenicum , a weapon salve for the churches wounds : quarto . origines sacrae , or a rational account of the grounds of christian faith , as to the truth and divine authority of the scriptures and matters therein contained : quarto . the unreasonableness of separation , or an impartial account of the history , nature and pleas of the present separation from the communion of the church of england ; to which several late letters are annexed of eminent protestant divines abroad concerning the nature of our differences , and the way to compose them : quarto . a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it , in answer to some papers of a revolted protestant , wherein a particular account is given of the fanaticism and divisions of that church : octavo . an answer to several late treatises occasioned by a book entituled , a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it ; the first part : octavo . a second discourse in vindication of the protestant grounds of faith , against the pretence of infallibility in the roman church , in answer to the guide in controversie , by r. h. protestancy without principles , and reason , and religion ; or the certain rule of faith , by e. w. with a particular enquiry into the miracles of the roman church : octavo . an answer to mr. cressy's epistle apologetical to a person of honour , touching his vindication of dr. stilling fleet : octavo . a defence of the discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , in answer to a book entituled catholicks no idolaters : octavo . several conferences between a romish priest , a fanatick chaplain , and a divine of the church of england ; being a full answer to the late dialogues of t. g. octavo . the grand question concerning the bishops right to vote in parlament in cases capital stated and argued , from the parlament rolls and the history of former times ; with an enquiry into their peerage , and the three estates in parlament : octavo . sermons preached upon several occasions by edward stillingfleet , d. d. dean of st. paul's , not yet collected into a volume . the reformation justified in a sermon preached at guild-hall chapel , sept. . . before the lord mayor , &c. upon acts xxiv . . a sermon preached nov. . . at st. margaret's westminster , upon matt. vii . , . a sermon preached before the king at whitehall , feb. . / . upon heb. iii. . a sermon preached on the fast-day , nov. . . at st. margarets westminster , before the honourable house of commons , upon sam. xii . , . a sermon preached before the king at white-hall , march . / . upon matt. x. . the mischief of separation , a sermon preached at guild-hall chapel , may . . before the lord mayor , &c. upon phil. iii. . protestant charity , a sermon preached at s. sepulchre's church on tuesday in easter week , . before the lord mayor , &c. upon galat. vi. . of the nature of superstition , a sermon preached at st. dunstan's west , march . . upon colos. ii. . a sermon preached before the king , feb. . / . upon job xxiii . . a sermon preached at a publick ordination at st. peter's cornhill , march . / upon tim. v. . the antiquities of nottinghamshire extracted out of records , original evidences , leiger books , and other manuscripts and authentick authorities , beautified with maps , prospects and portraictures ; by robert thoroton , dr. of physick : folio . the antiquities of the british-churches . chap. i. of the first planting a christian church in britain by st. paul. no christian church planted in britain , during the reign of tiberius . gildas his words mis-understood . the tradition concerning joseph of arimathea and his brethren coming to glassenbury , at large examined . no foot-steps of it in the british times . the pretended testimonies of british writers disproved . st. patrick's epistle , a forgery . of the saxon charters , especially the large one of king ina. the antiquity of seals in england . ingulphus his testimony explained . all the saxon charters suspicious , till the end of the seventh century . the occasion of this tradition , from an old british church there . the circumstances about joseph of arimathea and arviragus very improbable . sr. henry spelman vindicated . the state of the roman province in britain about that time . no such king as arviragus then . not the same with caractacus . a christian church proved to be planted here in the apostles times . the authentick testimonies of eusebius , theodoret , and clemens romanus , to that purpose . st. paul in probability , the first founder of a church here . the time and opportunity he had for it , after his release . of pomponia and graecina , claudia rufina , christians at rome , and their influence on his coming hither . st. peter , and st. paul compared , as to their preaching here , and the far greater probability of st. paul's . it is an opinion generally received among our later writers , as (a) one of them tells the world , that the conversion of the british nation , to the christian faith , was performed towards the latter end of the reign of tiberius caesar , i. e. about thirty seven years after christ's nativity . but whosoever compares the circumstances of those times , and considers the small number of the years between our saviour's passion , and the death of tiberius , will find very little probability , of the founding a christian church so soon , in a place so remote as britain . to make this appear , i shall not insist upon the testimony of apollonius in (b) eusebius , concerning the ancient tradition , that our saviour commanded his apostles , not to depart from jerusalem within twelve years after his ascension ; nor on that of the (c) alexandrian chronicle , wherein it is said , that the apostles did not separate , till after the council at jerusalem ; nor on that of hippolytus thebanus in (d) glycas , and of euodius in (e) nicephorus , who reckon the martyrdom of st. stephen , to be seven years after christ's resurrection ( which some learned (f) chronologers think more probable , than the common computation which allows but one ) before which time it is not pretended by any , that the disciples were dispersed abroad . but that which is of greater force and certainty , is , supposing the dispersion to have been within the reign of tiberius , yet the scripture gives such an account of the extent , and design of the disciples preaching upon it , as utterly overthrows any probability of their coming hither , for the words are , now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution , that arose about stephen , travelled as far as phenice , and cyprus , and antioch , preaching the word unto none , but unto the jews alone . but the nearest of these places , is at a great distance from britain , and if they preached to none but to the jews , they were not likely to convert the gentile britains . (g) baronius grants . a. d. . that hitherto the jews had onely the gospel preached to them ; although at the same time he pleads for the tradition of lazarus , mary magdalen , martha and marcella , coming then with maximinus in a ship without oars to marseilles , with a design no doubt , to spread the gospel among the gentiles in gaul , for (h) lazarus is supposed to have been bishop of marseilles , and maximinus of aix . and he adds out of a manuscript in the vatican library ( which not onely , like the housholder in the gospel , brings forth things new and old , but sometimes things new for old , as happens in the case of this manuscript , it being lately written , as (i) archbishop vsher hath observed ) that joseph of arimathea did bear them company , and came over into britain , to preach the gospel ; which according to his own supposition , must be onely to the jews in britain , if there were any here ; but if it be understood of the gentiles , (k) jac. sirmondus saith in plain terms , this tradition contradicts the scripture ; for saith he , if the people of marseilles ( or britain ) had the gospel preached to them so soon , how comes it to pass , that six years after , cornelius is said to be the first fruits of the gentiles ? and that upon the incouragement of his example , those of the dispersion , began to preach to the gentiles at antioch ? which is confessed by (l) baronius himself . the strength of which argument hath prevailed so much in france , that the (m) defenders of this tradition , have been there contented to let go the reign of tiberius , and to place it a great deal later , anno dom. . (n) for they evidently saw , there was no possibility of defending it upon other terms , although hereby they make lazarus and joseph of arimathea of great age , when they undertook this voyage with their companions : but when such a tradition is either wholly rejected there , as disagreeing to the scripture , or set so much later , on purpose to reconcile it with the acts of the apostles , it cannot but seem strange among us , that there should be such an opinion still so generally received , that the gospel should be here preached before the end of the reign of tiberius . but that which hath mis-led most of our writers , hath been a passage in gildas , which they have applyed to the particular preaching of the gospel in britain , whereas it seems onely to be understood of the general liberty of preaching it throughout the world , as will best appear by considering , not barely the words , but the circumstances of them . (o) gildas , having undertaken to give some account of the ancient british church in the beginning of his epistle , in the first place , sadly laments the want of any domestick monuments , to give him certain information . for , saith he , if there were any such , they were either burnt by our enemies , or carried so far by the banishment of our countreymen , that they no longer appear , and therefore he was forced to pick up what he could out of foreign writers , without any continued series . from hence , he proceeds to speak of the romans easie conquest of britain , but difficult keeping of it , the inhabitants being so unable to withstand the romans , and yet so unwilling to obey them . of which he gives a remarkable instance , in the revolt under boadicea , and the harder usage of the britains after it . interea , saith he , interea glaciali frigore rigenti insulae , & veluti longiore terrarum recessu , soli visibili non proximae verus ille non de firmamento solum ( l. sol ) temporali , sed de summa etiam coelorum arce tempora cuncta excedente universo orbi praefulgidum sui coruscum ostendens tempore ( ut scimus ) summo tiberii caesaris ( quo absque ullo impedimento ejus propagabatur religio comminata senatu nolente à principe morte dilatoribus militum ejusdem ) radios suos primum indulget , id est sua praecepta christus . § . . in the mean time , christ the true sun afforded his rays , that is , the knowledge of his precepts to this island , shivering with icy-cold , and separate at a great distance from the visible sun , not from the visible firmament , but from the supreme everlasting power of heaven . for we certainly know , that in the latter end of the reign of tiberius , that sun appear'd to the whole world with his glorious beams , in which time his religion was propagated without any impediment against the will of the roman senate , death being threatned by that prince , to all that should inform against the soldiers of christ. this i take to be gildas his true meaning : for it is certain , he speaks of a double shining of the gospel , one more general to the world , the other more particular to this island : the former , he saith , was in the latter end of tiberius ; the latter was , interea , in the mean time , of which he first speaks , and that refers back to the time he had spoken of before , which was the fatal victory over boadicea , and the britains , by suetonius paulinus , and the slavery they underwent after it . which happen'd in the time of nero , about the middle of his reign , almost twenty years after claudius had sent a. plautius to reduce britain into the form of a province , to whom succeeded p. ostorius scapula , a. didius gallus , and veranius , in the government of britain , before suctonius paulinus came into the pro vince . for after claudius his triumph for his victory in britain , the romans began to deduce colonies , to settle magistrates and jurisdictions here , after the manner of other provinces , and so continual intercourse was maintained between the roman city , and the british colonies ; cities of trade were set up , and the roman merchants were very busie in furnishing new provinces with necessaries , and superfluities : and the province of britain , in the beginning of nero's reign was thought to be in so settled , and flourishing a condition , that (p) dio saith , seneca , had here at one time to the value of . p. as mr. camden computes it . a vast sum for a philosopher ! but that which 〈…〉 from 〈…〉 that thi● wa● a very probable 〈◊〉 ▪ which gildas hath pu● had upon , for the bringing the gospel luther , 〈◊〉 between the 〈◊〉 of a. plautius coming over , in the time of claudius , and the battel between boadicea , and suetonius paulinus , as will more fully appear in the following discourse . as to the more general shining of the gospel to the world , he pitches upon the latter end of tiberius , as the certain time of it , in which he makes use of the very expressions of (q) eusebius , and that passage concerning tiberius and the senate differing about christ and his followers , which eusebius took from (r) tertullian , who speaks of it with great assurance ; and (s) orosius gives a more particular account of it , all which is very agreeable to what gildas had said before , that he must make use of foreign writers in so great a defect of their own . but to proceed clearly in this matter , there are three things i design , concerning the first planting a christian church here . . to examine the tradition , concerning joseph of arimathea , and his brethren coming hither to plant christianity . . to shew that there was a christian church planted here , in the apostles times , and within that compass gildas speaks of . . to prove the great probability , that st. paul first founded a church here . . as to the tradition concerning joseph of arimathea ; i confess i look on it , as an invention of the monks of glassenbury to serve their interests , by advancing the reputation of their monastery . but because this tradition hath met with better entertainment than it deserved , among the generality of our late writers , who take it for granted , and believe that it is grounded on the testimony of ancient records ; i shall , before i proceed farther , take the pains to examine it , both as to the authority , and the circumstances of it . it seems to be a little suspicious , at first view , that so considerable a part of the antiquities of this church should be wholly past by , by the most ancient and inquisitive writers of our 〈◊〉 , so that neith●r the 〈◊〉 gildas , nor bede , nor asserius , nor ma●●anus s●●lus , nor any of the ancient annals should take the least notice of this tradition . (t) sanders indeed saith , that polydore virgil proves it from the most ancient gildas , but he never attempted any such thing : for having set down the tradition of joseph of arimathea , with the best advantage , he onely proves from gildas , that the christian religion was very early received here , which might be very true , although joseph had never come from arimathea . and yet , (v) card. bona quotes gildas for this tradition , on the credit of sanders , unless he were deceived by those who produce the testimony of gildas albanius , in his book of the victory of aurelius ambrosius to the same purpose . but no such book of the true gildas could ever yet be found by those who have searched after it with the greatest diligence . (w) leland particularly relates , concerning himself , what incredible pains he took to find out this piece of gildas , and saith , that he hoped at last to have met with it in the library at glassenbury , where gildas is said by william of malmsbury , to have ended his days , but not a leaf of it was to be seen , either there , or in any of the old libraries in wales , which he searched on purpose . and after all , he refers us to the credit of (x) geffrey of monmouth for it , where it must rest , till some better authority be produced for it : yet bale , and pits , keep up the title of it , as they do of many others which were never in being , as the annals of gildas cambrius , the epigrams of claudia rufina , and the epistles of joseph of arimathea , &c. which bale thinks probable , that he did write , and therefore sets them down as written : and from him a learned (y) antiquary reckons them among our historical antiquities . and no better foundation can yet be discovered for this book of gildas , it being as probable , that he should write a book of that victory of ambrosius , since gildas saith , he was born upon the day of his obtaining it , if it were that on badon hill. but such probabilities are very far from testimonies . it is true , as the (z) learned primate observes , that gervase of tilbury , nauclerus , trithemius and many others , say , that geffrey followed gildas in such a book written by him : but they produce no authority for any such book , but geffrey himself , and untill some better appears , i must suspend my belief : it being common with such writers as himself , to pretend to such authorities , as no one else ever had the fortune to find . for it being their business to give an account of times long before their own , it were a vain thing to hope for any credit , unless they could produce some testimonies nearer those times , which might be of some weight if they were authentick . and this is the reason , why these inventers of history have still given out , that they met with some elder writers , out of whom they have pretended to derive their reports . thus (a) hunibaldus pretends , as much to follow the old sicambrian manuscripts of wasthald , for the remote antiquities of the franks , as geffrey doth the old british manuscripts , either for the succession of the british kings , or the first bringing of christianity hither . but which makes this matter yet stranger , (b) nennius himself , who sometimes passes under the name of gildas , saith nothing of this tradition , where he speaks of the first receiving of christianity in britain ; and yet bale saith of him , that he collected his writings out of the former british historians , such as teliesin , melkin , gildas , and elvodugus ; and it is not probable , he would have left it out , if he had found it in any of them . but (c) bale quotes one of these british authours , viz. melkinus avalonius for this tradition about joseph of arimathea , and arviragus ; but withall he confesses him to be a very fabulous writer . (d) leland saith , that he met with the fragments of melkinus in the library at glassenbury , by which he understood that he had written something of the british affairs , but more especially concerning the antiquity of glassenbury , and joseph of arimathea ; which , saith leland , he affirms without any certain authour , and which himself could not approve , not thinking it at all credible , that joseph of arimathea should be buried there , but rather some eremit of that name , from whence the mistake first arose . and * elsewhere , when he speaks of the glassenbury tradition ; he saith , that twelve eremits are reported to have come thither , with one joseph in the head of them , but not be of arimathea as he supposes . but still the testimonies that concern this matter are derived from glassenbury , insomuch that even the british historian hath the name of avalonius from thence . but some make use of this testimony however to prove the antiquity of this tradition , since this authour is said to have lived anno dom. . under king vortuporius , so bale ; but pits places him ten years later , under magoclunus : they might as well have made him contemporary with gildas cambrius , or to have been secretary to joseph of arimathea , when he wrote his epistles , for they have no more evidence to shew for the one than for the other . the truth is , there was an old legend which lay at glassenbury , which leland saw , and out of which capgrave hath transcribed that part which concerns this matter , from whom bale took it . but it is so grosly fabulous , that even capgrave himself ( whose stomach was not very nice as to legends ) put an &c. in the middle of it , as being ashamed to set down the passage of abaddar , a great man in saphat , and the hundred and four thousand which were buried with joseph of arimathea at glassenbury . yet this sensless and ridiculous legend is by (e) some thought to be the british history which william of malmsbury appeals to for the proof of this tradition ; and , which he found in the libraries of st. edmund and st. augustin . but malmsbury , having designed to set the antiquity of glassenbury as high as he could , called that a british history , which is now found to be written by an english monk , as (f) archbishop vsher hath evidently proved ( having several times perused it in the cotton library ) there being the very same passage in it which malmsbury quotes . and that he was no britain is most certain , because he calls the saxon his mother tongue , and england his countrey . and yet after all , there is not a word of joseph of arimathea or his companions in it ; all that is said is , that in the western parts of britain there is a royal island called gleston , large and compassed about with waters full of fish , and having other conveniences of humane life ; but , which was most considerable , it was devoted to the service of god. here the first disciples of the catholick law found an ancient church , not built as was reported by mens hands , but prepared by god himself for the benefit of men , and which by miracles was shewed to be consecrated to himself and to the blessed virgin. to which they adjoined another oratory made of stone , which they dedicated to christ and to st. peter . the question is , who are here meant by these first disciples of the catholick law ? not joseph of arimathea and his companions , who are never mentioned by him , and who are never said to have found a church there built to their hands , but he speaks of some of the first saxon christians in those parts , who might probably find there such a low wattled church as is described in sir h. (g) spelman ; a remainder of the british christianity in that island . and this passage affords us the best light into the true original of this tradition , which was after so much heightned and improved , as the monks of glassenbury thought convenient for the honour and privileges of their monastery . that which seems most agreeable to truth from hence is , that in the latter times of the british churches , when they were so miserably harassed and persecuted by the pagan saxons , they were forced to retire into places of most difficult access for their own security , and there they made them such churches as were suitable to their present condition , and lived very retired lives , being in continual fear of their barbarous enemies . such a place this island of avalon , or glassenbury was ; which might be of far greater request among the britains , because it was the place where king arthur was buried ; for i see no reason to question that which giraldus cambrensis relates concerning the finding the body of king arthur there in the time of henry ii. with an inscription on a leaden cross , which in latin expressed , that king arthur lay there buried in the island of avalon . for (h) giraldus saith , he was present , and saw the inscription and the body ; which is likewise attested by the historians of that time , as (i) leland proves at large . and the account given that his body was laid so deep in the earth , for fear of the saxons , farther confirms , that this was a place of retreat in the british times , but not without the apprehension of their enemies invasion . this church , according to the inscription on the brass plate on the pillar in glassenbury church , was in length foot , in breadth . but that inscription , as the learned and judicious antiquary * sir h. spelman observes , was by the character not of above years antiquity , and savours very much of the legend . in it we reade , that the church was first built by joseph and his companions , but was consecrated by christ himself to the honour of his mother . this being a very usefull point , but not very agreeing with the simplicity of the primitive christians , wanted some more than ordinary confirmation , and such we are told it had . for st. david having a design to consecrate this church , our lord appeared to him in a dream , and forbad him , having consecrated both the church and church-yard before himself . and , for a sign thereof , he thrust his finger through the bishop's hand . which it seems was to pass for the token of a former consecration . but , as much as this looks like a monkish legend , (k) alford and (l) cressy are much displeased with sir h. spelman for calling it in question . but they who can in earnest believe , that christ himself did then consecrate a church and church-yard to the honour of his mother , are past all confutation by reason , having their minds naturally framed to believe legends ; and to such , one legend serves to confirm another ; which is the way those persons take to confute sir h. spelman . for cressy , to prove the antiquity of dedicating churches to the blessed virgin , brings the tradition of the temple at saragoça , called del pilar , because the pillar on which her image was placed was brought thither by the ministery of angels . now those things are thought proofs by some , which to others look onely like bringing one absurdity to support another . but as yet we find no testimony to confirm this tradition , but what is taken from glassenbury , which is not the best witness in a cause which so nearly concern'd it self . but these now mentioned authours (m) at last venture on a considerable testimony , if it hold good , viz. of augustin the monk , in an epistle to gregory , but upon examination , that which they quote out of st. augustin's epistle is nothing else but the passage already mentioned by malmsbury , which he found in a book taken out of the library of st. augustin at canterbury ; and they might as well have quoted st. edmund's epistle to the pope to the same purpose . for william of malmsbury saith , he met with the same passage at st. edmund 's as well as st. augustin 's , i. e. in the libraries of those monasteries ; i will not dissemble that they cite two considerable (n) authours of our own for this mistake ; i wish they had been as ready to have followed them where they were in the right , as where they were guilty of an oversight , which the most carefull writers may sometimes fall into . but it is an unhappy temper to follow great men onely in their errours and imperfections . so that upon the whole matter , we have not one testimony which reaches to the point concerning joseph of arimathea , which is not originally taken from the glassenbury legends , where it seems there was great choice of them ; for (o) capgrave mentions several , one , out of which the life of joseph of arimathea there is extracted , is said to be taken out of a book which the emperour theodosius found in the palace of pilate at jerusalem ; which is a very hopefull introduction to a legend ; and there we find the history of joseph of arimathea , very distinctly set down , how he was miraculously delivered out of prison in jerusalemand conveyed to arimathea , whither the chief of the jews sent a solemn embassy to him of seven persons , with an epistle , wherein they beg pardon for his imprisonment , and desire his company at jerusalem , whither being come , upon their request , he gives an account of his escape , the house being taken up by four angels , and christ appeared to him , and carried him to the place where he buried him , and shew'd him the linen cloth about his head , after which he was baptized by philip , and was present with him at the assumption of the blessed virgin , and fifteen years after he came to philip in gaul , who sent him over into britain with twelve of his disciples and his son josephes . but an other tradition saith , they were six hundred men and women who were to come over , having taken a vow of abstinence till they came to land , which they did all break , but one hundred and fifty who passed the sea upon the shirt of josephes , but the rest repenting , a ship was sent to convey them over which was built by king salomon , and with them came a duke of the medes called nacianus , formerly baptized by joseph in the city saram , with the king of it called mordraius , who valiantly killed a king of north-wales , who kept joseph a prisoner ; after which he and his companions preached here in the time of arviragus . and then follows the common tradition , of his giving the island of avalon to them , and the twelve hydes of land by the three pagan kings , arviragus , marius and coilus . this is followed by another tradition out of the acts of king arthur , and the inquisition of lancelot de lac ; all which is concluded with the admirable legend of melkinus avalonius already mentioned . these are the choice materials in capgrave's collection to confirm this tradition . and if he had found any better , he would no doubt have produced them . it must be confessed that mr. cressy , with some scorn , rejects that part of the tradition taken out of the holy graal about the six hundred companions and the prince of media , &c. but i can find no better authority for one part than for the other ; and for all that i can see , the holy graal deserves as much credit as the book taken out of pilat's palace or melkinus avalonius , especially since (p) pits hath given the supposed author so good a place , among his british writers , under the name of eremita britannus , and saith , he lived about the time of king ina , anno dom. . and (q) helinandus takes notice of the vision to the british eremit about that time concerning joseph of arimathea , and the dish wherein our saviour ate the passover with his disciples , which sort of dish he saith was then called in french graal ; but others think the true name was sangreal , being some of christ's real bloud which he shed upon the cross , which was said to be somewhere found by king arthur . and to confirm this , it is said in the authentick writing of melkinus , that in the coffin of joseph were two silver vessels filled with the bloud and sweat of jesus the prophet . but lest i should seem to expose so ancient a tradition , by setting down onely the fabulous mixtures which the monks thought to adorn it with , i now proceed from their dreams and visions , to what seems to have much more weight and authority in it , viz. their ancient records which william of malmsbury seems most to rely upon : among these , in the first place he mentions the charter of st. patrick , as he calls it , which is at large printed in the (r) monasticon , and both in (s) alford and (t) cressy , and is magnified by them as a substantial proof of the glassenbury tradition , which cressy saith was transcribed out of a very ancient ms. belonging to glassenbury by marianus victorius ; and for this he quotes (u) ger. vossius de hist. lat. who saith onely that bale mentions a piece of his de antiquitate avalonica , but he adds , that bale deserves no credit in writers of great antiquity . but the person cressy means ( or at least his authour ) was another gerard vossius , dean of tongres , (w) who published part of this pretended piece of st. patrick among other ancient writings , which will have no great authority among considering men , if they have no other characters of antiquity than this charter of saint patrick . however , mr. cressy is pleased to call it , a monument of the goodness of god towards this nation , so early , in the very beginning of christianity ; because therein mention is made of some writings of st. phaganus and diruvianus wherein was declared that twelve disciples of the holy apostles philip and jacob built the said ancient church to the honour of the blessed virgin , by the appointment of the archangel gabriel . and moreover , that our lord himself from heaven dedicated the said church to the honour of his mother . as likewise , that three pagan kings bestowed upon them twelve portions of land. if this hold good , it goes a great way towards the proving the ancient tradition , although joseph of arimathea be not mentioned . but st. patrick goes on , and saith , that in other writings of a later date he found that phaganus and diruvianus obtained from pope eleutherius thirty years of indulgence , as himself likewise procured from pope celestine twelve years : and towards the conclusion , he grants a hundred days of indulgence to those who would clear the way to a certain oratory there mention'd : and to make all plain , it begins with the date , anno dom. . in these words . in the name of our lord iesus christ. i patrick the poor humble servant of god , in the four hundred twenty fifth year of the incarnation of our lord , being sent by the most holy pope celestine into ireland , &c. i confess this charter offers very fair play towards the discovery of it's own forgery by such open marks , and characters as these . for it is certainly known , that in st. patrick's time , no such way of computation was used from the year of our lord. for dionysius exiguus , writ his first epistle to petronius , anno dom. . where he first mentions , the reducing the cycle to the years of christ's incarnation , that people might be better acquainted with it ; after which it remained a great while in private use with the paschal cycle , and was not publickly received , saith (x) bucherius till about the time of charles the great . * joachim vadianus , saith , he never saw the year of our lord in any ancient charters , of which sort he had seen many : (y) some observe , that it was never used in charters before the ninth age , and therefore the more subtile pretenders to antiquity always left it out . (z) joh. aventinus affirms , that the use of it in epistles and charters , was brought in by carolus crassus , with whom (a) nic. vignier agrees , as to the imperial diplomata . but it seems probable , to have been brought into england before that time , for in the (b) council at celichyth , anno dom. . every bishop was required to take an account of the year of our lord. and by some charters in ingulphus , it appears to have been used here , before it was used in france , or the empire , but not long before the eighth century ; and the first publick acts we find it applied to , were those of councils , as in that of becanceld , under king withred , anno dom. . but the same king doth not use it in the years of his reign . the like instances about councils , especially in the eighth and ninth centuries are produced by (c) mabillon : who thinks , that bede was the first who brought it into the use of history . but that could not be before anno dom. . at which time he began to write his history ; and he adds , that from him by the means of boniface , it came into the use of the french councils and histories ; and at last of all publick charters both in france and the empire , as well as here . but from all this it appears , that there is no colour for this charter of st. patrick , which reckons from the incarnation , a hundred years before dionysius exiguus first introduced that way of computation . besides , it cannot possibly agree with the time of st. patrick's going first into ireland ; for (d) william of malmsbury confesseth , he was made bishop by celestine , and sent by st. german into ireland as an apostle : but it is on all hands agreed , that palladius was sent thither before him ; and prosper , who lived at that time , fixeth the sending palladius , to the year wherein bassus and antiochus were consuls , which was anno dom. . the year of the first ephesine council . so that this charter of st. patrick cannot be true , no not although we allow the different computation in capgrave , who reads it , . but alford confesses , both malmsbury and the glassenbury antiquities have it , . it is strange that alford should say , he found no exception against the credit of this charter , since even (e) capgrave himself mentions it not without doubt , and suspicion of the truth of it : and his own brethren (f) henschenius , and papebrochius deride his simplicity for believing it . and among other arguments they produce that of the mention of indulgences against it , which name they confess was not used for the relaxation of penance , till the eleventh century ; a very competent time after the date of this charter . the question is not as mr. cressy would put it , whether every bishop , or the pope as chief , hath a power to relax penance ? but , whether the name of indulgences were then applied to such a sense , as this charter uses it ? which those learned jesuites deny . add to all this , that st. patrick saith , he obtained from celestine twelve years of indulgence , which being understood of glassenbury , implies a plain impossibility : for st. patrick is said , to retreat thither towards the end of his life , and celestine dyed soon after his first sending into ireland : so that i need not to insist on the style , or the names contained in this charter , to prove the forgery of it , it being so manifest by the arguments already produced . i now proceed to the charters , whereof there are several extant in the (g) monasticon . the large charter of king ina , seems to be most considerable , and to favour the old tradition , as it makes the church at glassenbury dedicated to christ and the blessed virgin , to be the fountain of all religion , and the first in the kingdom of britain . but upon a strict enquiry into the circumstances of this charter , i see great reason to call in question the truth of it , and not merely from the dissimilitude of style , between this and other charters of the saxon times , which are allowed to be authentick , such as those in ingulphus , william of malmsbury , the additions to matthew paris , &c. but for these two reasons which seem to me to have weight in them . . because it refers to other ancient charters of that church , as to the exemption of the monastery . and the benedictin monks have a long time lain under so great a suspicion , among those of their religion , as to this matter of forging charters of exemption , that no prudent persons will think those a sufficient foundation to build their faith upon , as to any ancient history , which must depend upon their credibility . i shall not here mention what gallonius , launoy , naude , and others abroad have said upon this subject , nor what insufficient answers . (h) mabillon hath lately made to their objections ; but it is reasonable for us to consider , how much they have been charged here at home with this crime , by the bishops of this church , and how ill they have been able to defend themselves . it appears by the epistle of richard archbishop of canterbury , to alexander the third , in (i) petrus blesensis , that there was a general suspicion of forgery in the charters of exemptions , which the monasteries pretended to , vt falsitas in omnium ferè monasteriorum exemptione praevaleat , &c. and he there particularly instanceth in the bishop of salisbury , charging the abbat of malmsbury , with producing false charters for his exemption from the bishop's right of election : but which is yet more considerable , in the time of gregory the ninth , when st. edmond was archbishop of canterbury , some monks of canterbury were convicted of forging a certain charter of privileges : but the pope's legate took up the business , and procured a dispensation from the pope , which put an end to the cause . which dispensation dr. (k) casaubon declares to the world , he read in an old manuscript belonging to the church of canterbury , wherein it was registred : and wherein , as both he and sr. henry (l) spelman , tell us , it is observ'd , that that church enjoy'd all its lands and privileges , onely by custome and prescription , sine cartis vel munimentis regiis , without any written charters , untill anno dom. . when withred king of kent caused the first to be written , which was the same with the council of becanceld . from hence sr. henry spelman gives a prudent caution , concerning the most ancient charters , which the monks pretended to , that they be not easily believed : there being so much suspicion of fraud in them . and that not onely now , but was so of old , as appears by what (m) gervase reports of the monks of st. augustin , that they produced very suspicious , and rased charters . the case was this , the monks of st. augustine pretended an exemption from the jurisdiction of the archbishop of canterbury , as those of glassenbury did from that of the bishop of wells ; upon an appeal to rome , a commission was granted to the bishop of durham , and the abbat of st. albans to inspect their charters , and to let the archbishop examine them : but after great tergiversation , they at last produced two writings , which they called their originals ; the first was ancient , but rased and subscribed , as if it were amended and without a seal , which they called king ethelbert 's charter . the other was of much later writing , with a leaden bull hanging at it , and the figure of a bishop upon it , which they called st. augustine 's charter . against the first , the rasure was objected , and the manner of subscription , and want of a seal . against the second , the lateness of the writing , and the novelty of hanging leaden bulls to charters , especially by bishops on this side of the alpes : and besides , the style was very different from the roman . both these charters are extant in the (n) monasticon , and a third of ethelbert , with an inspeximus of edw. iii. but another charter of ethelbert is set down together with these in the (o) ms. chronicle of st. augustin's , the authour whereof was certainly a monk there , being so zealously concern'd to defend these charters , and to answer some of the former objections against them . as to the want of a seal to ethelbert's charter , he answers truly , that hanging seals upon wax were not then used , but onely a subscription of the name of the person with a sign of the cross before it , in token of their conversion . for (p) ingulphus , a very competent witness , declares , that the ancient english charters to the time of edward the confessour were attested by witnesses who set their names with golden crosses , or other marks before them . but the normans brought in the use of seals by impressions upon wax . but that ms. authour will not allow the use of such seals , till after the conquest , except in the time of cnut , who was a stranger . whereas in the contest between the bishop of lincoln and the abbat of st. albans , before henry ii. when the (q) saxon charters were disputed for want of seals , the other party knew not what to answer ; but the king insisted on their confirmation by henry i. and the monk , who writes the account of this proceeding , alledgeth the seal of edward the confessour to the church of westminster : but edward brought in several norman customs , as ingulphus shews , against the practice of his predecessours . and this the normans borrow'd from the french , whose seals were generally affixed on the right side of the charter , and not pendent with labels , as they began to be about the reign of lewis vi. as (r) mabillon hath shewed at large . and so some of our learned (s) antiquaries have thought , that pendent seals were not brought into use here , till the time of edw. i. for in a charter of henry i. granted to anselm , the great seal was affixed on the left side of the parchment . and (t) brian twyne affirms that he saw a charter of william the conquerour so sealed in the lumley library . but that this observation is not certain , appears by contrary instances , as of the pendent seal to the charter of battel abbey , printed by (u) mr. selden ; and of the charter of henry ii. to glassenbury abbey , which (w) dr. caius saith he saw with a seal of green wax hanging to it by a string of red and white silk . but from hence we may see how dangerous it is to make general rules , as to these matters , from some particular examples , when the custome might vary . and , notwithstanding the testimony of ingulphus , there might be seals sometimes used to charters though not so frequently . mr. (x) selden hath produced some instances to that purpose , as in that of king edgar to the abbey of persore , which he saith had plain signs of three-labels by the places cut for their being hanged on ; which is attested in a letter from godfrey , archdeacon of worcester , to alex. iii. and among the chartae antiquae , there are some , saith he , cum sigillo ; and one particularly cum sigillo of king cnout , which very much confirms what this historian observes concerning canutus his using a seal . and our great (y) lawyer hath produced the deeds of king edwin , brother to king edgar , and of king offa , with seals to them . and therefore , i think , ingulphus ought not to be taken in so strict a sense , that there were no seals in use before the norman times , but that deeds or charters before were good or valid by bare crosses and marks , with subscriptions , without seals ; but that the normans would allow none that had no seals to them . and this upon due consideration will appear to be the true meaning of ingulphus . and the same ms. authour commends the discretion of the saxon way of confirming charters , above that of the normans , a seal of wax being so apt to decay , or to be lost or taken off . and he observes one particular custome of the normans , that they were wont to put some of the hair of their heads or beards into the wax of their seals . i suppose rather to be kept as monuments than as adding any strength or weight to their charters . so he observes , that some of the hair of william , earl of warren , was to his time kept in the priory of lewes . to that of the leaden bull appending to the charter of st. augustin , he makes a pitifull answer , viz. that he , being deputed hither by the pope , might use the same seal which he did at rome . and so every legate might grant bulls with leaden seals , which would not be well taken at rome . but it is much more to the purpose which he adds , viz. that when in the time of henry iii. this privilege was questioned by the archbishop of canterbury , because of this leaden bull , the earl of flanders produced such another , given him by a foreign bishop , which he and his predecessours had used ; the fashion whereof he sets down , and the bull it self was preserved as a monument in st. augustine's . but if this were then so common a custome , especially at rome , why had they no such bulls of gregory the great , who sent augustine ? to that he gives a frivolous answer , viz. that gregory died the same year of the endowment of st. augustine ' s. but , did he leave no successour ? and , had it not been more to their purpose to have produced one leaden bull of the pope's at that time , than twenty of augustine's the monk ? but he gives no manner of answer to the rasure of the first charter , nor to the late writing of the second : and although the using of leaden bulls were not so soon appropriated to the consistorial grants of the bishop of rome , but princes and bishops might use them , as sir h. spelman , and monsieur du cange , and mabillon have all proved ; yet there ought to be better proof brought of the matter of fact , as to st. augustine's privilege , for it is still very suspicious , not onely on the account of the leaden bull ( which (z) polydore virgil could not find so early used even at rome , and he allows it to be no elder than anno domini . and all the instances brought before by (a) dom. raynaldus are confessed to be suspicious by (b) mabillon himself ) but there are several things in it which in (c) sir h. spelman's judgment favour of the norman times , as the jus consuetudinarium , iudicia intus & foris , and the very title of archbishop , as it is there used , was hardly of that antiquity in the western church , and was never given to augustine by gregory . but according to (d) isidore's explication of it , who was gregory's disciple , and understood the language of that age , augustine could not properly call his successours archbishops , for he saith , that title belong'd to them who had power over metropolitans as well as other bishops , and it was not before the ninth age , as (e) mabillon and others observe , that it came to be commonly used for a metropolitan . it was therefore a judicious rule laid down by the learned authour of the (f) preface to the monasticon concerning the charters of monks , that the elder they pretend to be , the more they are to be suspected ; for which he is deservedly praised by (g) papebrochius ; but (h) mabillon is very unwilling to allow it , as overthrowing at once the authority of all their ancient charters . and therefore he hath endeavoured with mighty industry to defend chiefly the old benedictin charters in france ; but he cannot deny many of them to be counterfeited ( papebrochius saith almost all ) and at the conclusion of his discourse he vindicates the monks by the commonness of the fault in elder times : which is an argument of caution to us , rather than of any credit to be given to them . and it cannot be denyed , that he hath laid down many usefull rules for discerning the true and false , with respect to the customs of france . but we are still as much to seek as to our pretended charters , since the custome of making charters cannot be made appear to be so old here as it was there . he doth indeed endeavour to prove from bede's epistle to egbert , that in his time there were written privileges granted to monasteries among the saxons , and something before that , among the britains , by the synod of landass , anno dom. . but he cannot prove , nor doth he attempt it , that there were any charters among the saxons before that of withred , anno dom. . and if not , all the ancient charters referr'd to in this charter of ina must be false and counterfeit . . how comes king ina to have so great authority over all the kings of britain , the archbishops , bishops , dukes and abbats , as this charter expresseth ? in the beginning of the charter , he mentions baldred as one of his vice-roys . in the middle he speaks of baldred as one of his predecessours , and joins him with kenewalchius , kentwin and cedwalla . but in the end he makes him to confirm what ina has granted , ego , baldredus rex , confirmavi . but who was this king baldred ? in the kingdom of kent , edricus was in the beginning of ina's reign , according to the savilian fasti , and withredus from the sixth to the end . in the kingdom of the east saxons there were sighardus , senfredus , ossa and selredus . in the kingdom of east angles , beorna and ethelredus . in the kingdom of mercia , adelredus , kenredus , ceolredus , athelbaldus . in the kingdom of northumberland , alfredus , osfredus , kenredus , osricus , but among all these not one baldredus appears . there was indeed one of that name king of kent near an hundred years after ; but what is that to the time of ina ? but suppose baldred then in being , and onely a vice-roy in some part of ina's dominions , how comes ina to this vniversal monarchy or power to command all the kings of britain , which is expressed in the charter ? sed & omnibus regni mei regibus , &c. praecipio . by what authority did the king of the west saxons at that time make such a precept to all other kings in britain ? but , i remember , (i) geffrey of monmouth makes him grandchild to cadwallader . and the (k) authour of the additions to king edward's laws saith , he had the kingdom of britain with his second wife wala , daughter of cadwallader ; and then ina called a parliament for the intermarriage of britains and saxons . so that there was an opinion among some , that ina had the monarchy of britain , which opinion was certainly follow'd by the contriver of this charter . but mr. lambard confesseth , that these passages are not in the ancient ms. of king edward's laws , and it is a wonder they should ever come into them , being so destitute of any colour of authority , and so remote from the design of his laws . as to these counterfeit charters , the opinion of (l) papebrochius seems most probable to me , that they were for the most part framed in the eleventh century , when there was ignorance enough to make them pass , and occasion enough given to the monks to frame them for their own security , against the encroachments of others upon their lands , and the jurisdiction of bishops over their monasteries . and william the conquerour having given such invidious privileges to battell abbey , as may be seen in his charter , the elder monasteries thought much to be so far behind them , and therefore made themselves as great privileges by the favour of saxon kings . from hence in the next age arose so many contests about jurisdiction between the bishops and the several monasteries , of which we reade not before , as we have already observed between the abbey of st. augustine and the archbishop of canterbury ; between the abbey of malmsbury and the bishop of salisbury ; and the abbey of st. albans and the bishop of lincoln . and at that time those abbies were charged with forging their charters . and when they were so charged were not able to defend them , as was remarkable in the case of saint augustine's , as it is related by (m) william thorn a monk of that abbey : he confesseth the archbishop chargeth their privileges with forgery , and that the monks appealed to rome , and that upon their appeal several commissions were granted to examine them ; but by his own relation , they shamefully declined to produce them as long as they durst , and still continued their appeal . but when they saw no remedy , they produced the charters of ethelbert and augustine , the copies whereof the delegates sent to rome . but before they came thither the pope died ; and the next pope , lucius , sent an inhibition to the archbishop , requiring him not to invade their privileges till the question of forgery were determined ; and he writes to king henry ii. in the behalf of the abbey . things being at this pass , they fairly made a composition with the archbishop , viz. that he should withdraw his accusation of fraud , in the court of rome , and they would yield up to him the main points contested as to jurisdiction . the form of which composition is at large extant in thorn. and the confirmation of it by henry ii. in the other ms. chronicon of that abbey . which in effect amounted to the monks giving up the cause of their charters . such a controversie about jurisdiction there was between jocelin , bishop of bath and wells , and the abbey of glassenbury , about anno dom. . as appears by the book called secretum domini abbatis lately in the arundell library , but now in a private hand . so that there appears a sufficient inducement for them to forge such large immunities and exemptions , with respect to the bishop's jurisdiction , as this charter contains ; and that seems to be the main point aimed at in it . but in order to it , some extraordinary matter was to be alledged in favour of this place , and nothing served so much in that age , as to amuse the people with wonderfull stories of the antiquity of it , calling it the mother of religion , and the place of visions and revelations and miracles , where st. patrick and st. david dwelt in former times , before ever the saxons came ( but not a word yet of joseph of arimathea : ) which were very plausible pretences for extraordinary privileges , and so they are alledged in this charter of king ina , ita & ipsa supereminentem privilegii obtineat dignitatem , nec ulli omnino hominum ancillare obsequium faciat in terris , &c. which words are spoken of the blessed virgin , but , according to the construction of that age , to be under stoo of glassenbury abbey , because the church was believed to be consecrated to her by our saviour himself . but it seems strange that such a charter should ever pass for authentick with any who compare the language of it with the history of king ina , as it is delivered by the monkish historians . for by them it appears what wars he had with his neighbour princes , and how far he was to the last from commanding kings and princes and archbishops , whose kingdom was confined to the west and south saxons , and had but one bishop in it till the eighteenth year of his reign , when it was divided into two , daniel having one share , and aldelm the other . and some years after eadbertus was bishop of the south saxons , so that he had but three bishops at the most , and never an archbishop in his dominions : how then could he call the several kings , archbishops and bishops together to pass this charter ? the like gross absurdity there is in the (n) charter of evesham abbey , wherein brightwaldus is said to draw it up with the consent of all the princes in england met in council , as the pope constantine explains it ; which is somewhat hard to believe concerning that age , wherein they were under no common head , but continually fighting with each other , till the west saxons prevailed . and the case of the abbey of evesham seems to have been much the same with that of glassenbury . for (o) william of malmsbury wonders how bede came to omit the foundation of it , if it were so solemnly declared at rome as the charters import , when kenred and offa were both there , which is mention'd by bede . and in truth it is very strange that so diligent a writer , especially of such things , as bede was , should say not a word either of glassenbury or evesham . but he judiciously imputes the occasion of founding this monastery to some old church of the britains standing there in a desolate place , which egwin , then bishop of worcester , took a great fancy to , and so raised a monastery there . but such a plain story as this would never doe the monks business , and therefore they must have a legend of egwin's chains , &c. and the vision of the blessed virgin there , and large immunities granted to the place on these accounts , as they have fully done in the charters of kenred and offa , the bull of constantine and the privilege of egwin . but yet this unlucky charge of pope constantine to brightwaldus , to summon a council of the whole nation , princes and bishops , to confirm this charter , at a time when there were so many kingdoms not onely divided , but most commonly in actual war with each other , makes this whole charter appear to be an undoubted forgery of the monks to obtain great privileges to themselves . but to return to glassenbury ; i do not question that king ina did found a monastery there , where before had been an ancient church in the british times . but i see no ground to believe , that either joseph of arimathea , or st. patrick , or st. david had ever been there . but these were great and well sounding names to amuse the people with , and by degrees advanced that monastery to so high a reputation , that the very monks of other places were concerned to lessen the authority of this tradition , as is evident by the (p) ms. chronicle of st. augustine's , wherein the monks of glassenbury are charged with pretending to greater authority than they had reason for , that monastery being first founded by king ina , but they give out they had land given by arviragus a king of the britains . and even (q) william of malmsbury , although when he writes the antiquities of glassenbury , he seems firmly to believe saint patrick's being there , yet when he comes elsewhere to speak of his being buried there , he adds that cooling expression , si credere dignum , and takes not the least notice of joseph of arimathea and his companions . so much difference he thought there ought to be between writing the legend of a monastery and a true history . and there he plainly affirms , that king ina was the first founder of it . to which (r) asserius agrees in an ancient ms. copy of his annals . for a. d. . he saith , ina went to rome , and there died , having built and dedicated a monastery in glassenbury . but what presumption was it to say , he dedicated it , if it were dedicated so long before by christ himself , as the vision of st. david and the glassenbury tradition affirm ? i do not then deny that there was an ancient church before ina's time , which after the western saxons became christians , grew into mighty reputation , but all the succession of abbats before , either of worgresius , or brightwaldus , or others , i look on as fabulous . for (s) bede and others say , brightwaldus was abbat of reculver before he was archbishop ; which is a good distance from glassenbury . but the first abbat there was hemgislus , to whom ina granted a charter ; after him beorwaldus , to whom king ina granted several lands by charters , far more probable than this large one , whose authority i have hitherto discussed . those charters are short , and the style agreeable to those times , and not one word of joseph of arimathea , or st. patrick , or st. david , in any of them . and those , i believe , were the original charters of that abbey . but the abbey being thus founded and well endowed , then , like a man that hath made his own fortunes , who pretends to be derived from some ancient stock , so this monastery growing rich betimes , saw it must be cast much behind in place and dignity , unless it could lay claim to some greater antiquity . and for this , the old british church was an admirable foundation . and st. patrick and st. david , being two saints of wonderfull esteem in ireland and wales , they first set up with the reputation of their being at glassenbury , the former lying buried there , and the latter building a little chapel . the monks finding the advantage of these pretences , made a farther step towards the advancement of their monastery , by giving out that their old church was the first church in britain , and that all religion came from thence into other parts , which by degrees gaining belief , they at last pitched upon joseph of arimathea , as the person who came first hither , being a man whose name was every where in great esteem for the respect he shew'd to our saviour's body : and him they thought they might safely pitch upon , not being pretended to by any other church . but it was a considerable time before the name of joseph of arimathea came to be mention'd , not being found in any of the saxon charters , which speak most to the advantage of glassenbury ; as may be seen by those of king (t) edmond and king edgar in the monasticon . but by the time of henry ii. the tradition was generally received , that the old church at glassenbury was built by the disciples of our lord ; and that it was the original church of this nation , as appears by the charter of henry ii. omitted in the monasticon , but printed by (v) harpsfield , and the learned primate of (w) armagh , by which we see what authority the monks of glassenbury had then obtained , for not onely this tradition is inserted in the charter , as a thing certain , but a repetition is there made of several other charters , as seen and read before the king , which were undoubtedly counterfeit , such as that of king arthur , and several others ; yet all these went down then , and were confirmed by the king 's inspeximus . from this time the monks of glassenbury were triumphant , and no one durst dispute their traditions how improbable soever . this charter being confirmed by the inspeximus of edw. ii. an. , . of edw. iii. an. , . and edw. iv. and from hence it grew to be the common opinion of the nation , and was pleaded for the honour of it in the councils of pisa , constance , siena and basil , of which the (x) primate hath given a full account , and , as things passed among them then , our nation had as just right to insist on their tradition of joseph of arimathea , as the spaniards on that of st. james going into spain ; for certainly one tradition was as good as the other . but having thus far examined the authority of this tradition , i now come to consider the circumstances of it . and supposing the testimonies to confirm it to have been of far greater authority than i find them , yet the very improbable circumstances of the story it self would be a sufficient reason for me to pass it over ( leaving every one to believe as much of it as he sees cause ) viz. ( . ) the tradition of the church mentioned by (y) eusebius , (z) sophronius , (a) s. chrysostome , and (b) hippolytus portuensis , that saint philip continued preaching in the eastern parts , about phrygia , and suffer'd at hierapolis . ( ) the eremitical course of their lives so wholly different from that of the apostles , and other disciples of our lord , in an age of so much business and employment in preaching the gospel , who went from one city and countrey to another for that end. ( . ) the building of the church by a vision of the archangel , and devoting it and themselves to the blessed virgin , favours too grosly of monkish superstition to be near the time pretended . ( . ) the consecrating a church-yard together with a church , in order to the burial of persons in it at that time , is none of the most probable circumstances , and yet it is a material one , quod ipse dominus ecclesiam simul cum coemeterio dedicarat . (c) sir h. spelman observes , that the custome of compassing churches , with church-yards , was not so ancient : and withall he adds , that although the british cities had churches from the beginning of christianity , yet there were no burying places within cities , till cuthbert , archbishop of canterbury , obtain'd leave for it , about anno dom. . upon this (d) alford and (e) cressy charge him with a manifest mistake and great impertinency . a mistake , in that ethelbert and augustine were both buried in the church of st. peter and saint paul. and what then ? doth sir h. spelman say there was no burying in churches before cuthbert's time ? no. but that there was no burying place in cities before that time . for the church of st. augustine , or st. peter and st. paul , was without the city . for so the (f) ms. chronicle of st. augustine 's saith , that when the bodies of the kings and archbishops were carried thither to burial , they follow'd our saviour , who suffer'd without the gate . and that it was like the children of israel 's going out of egypt , &c. which is sufficient to prove the truth of sir h. spelman's observation , which relates to burying in cities and not in churches . and withall the reason alledged in one of the charters of (g) king ethelbert , why that place was assigned for a burying place , is , because the city is for the living , and not for the dead . but why do they not prove the antiquity of church-yards to be so great , which was the most to the purpose ? but they say , sir h. spelman 's observation was impertinent , glassenbury being then a solitary place , and very far from being a city . it is true , if the weight had been laid by him onely upon that , there being no evidence of any roman city there . but his design was to prove , that church-yards were not then adjoining to churches , because the cemeteries were without the city , and the churches within in the british times ; and even in the saxon times , (h) he saith , although they buried in churches , yet those churches in which they buried were without the cities , till cuthbert first procured the alteration by royal authority , and , some say , by papal too . but the monks of st. augustine's denied the pope's confirmation . but the main circumstance i shall insist upon , is , the incongruity of this story with the condition of the roman province at that time . for there was no such british king then as arviragus , and in that countrey , as will appear by the more southern parts of the island being reduced into the form of a province before anno dom. . when the glassenbury tradition saith , joseph of arimathea came first to britain . for (i) tacitus saith , it was done as to the nearest part of the island , when a. plautius and ostorius scapula were governours here , and between them and suetonius paulinus were didius gallus and veranius . in probability the belgae were subdued by vespasian , of whom (k) suetonius saith , that he conquer'd here two powerfull nations , aboue twenty towns , and the isle of wight , by which we find his employment was westward , and the belgae and damnonii were the two powerfull nations that way . and in all the actions afterwards , we find no care taken by the roman generals to secure themselves against the belgae , as they did against the brigantes and silures , among whom caractacus commanded ; so that there could be no such british king at that time among the belgae as arviragus is supposed to have been . for if there had been when (l) ostorius marched northwards , having suppressed the iceni , it is not to be supposed , that he would have fixed his garrisons on the severn and the avon , to secure the province . for , as our (m) judicious antiquary hath well observed , the design of ostorius therein was to keep the provincial britains from joining with the others ; and therefore , all on this side those garrisons were within the roman province ; now the places where the garrisons were placed are by tacitus said to be antona and sabrina . the latter is certainly the severn , which parted the belgae and the silures . for antona , camden reads aufona , ( although northanton comes nearer the former name , and southanton had its name from the river anton , which there runs into the sea ; and ptolemy calls trisanton , i. e. saith camden , traith anton , the mouth of anton ) but he chuses aufona , for this reason , because the two avons rise both in the country of northampton , and so cut the island , that none can pass out of the north , but they must cross one or the other of them , or else fall upon the roman garrisons between , the remainders whereof he takes notice of between the rise of the two avons at gildsborough and daintry ; by which means he hindred all intercourse between the brigantes and the roman province , as the other did between the silures and them . but if there had been such a british king as arviragus among the belgae , what would the fortifying the severn have signified , when the enemies to the romans lived on the roman side ? tacitus indeed mentions an expedition of ostorius against the cangi , whom (n) camden sometimes thought a small people among the belgae , but upon better consideration , (o) he places them in cheshire , where he found an inscription concerning the ceangi . and tacitus saith , they were not far from the sea coast which looks towards ireland . (p) r. white of basingstoke supposes this arviragus to bestow the island on joseph of arimathea , when trebellius maximus was governour here , who succeeded petronius turpilianus the year c. suetonius paulinus was consul at rome ; which , according to the savilian fasti , was in the twelfth year of nero , and anno domini . ( four years after joseph's coming , according to the glassenbury tradition ) but that is no great matter , if at that time we are sure there was such a king as arvinagus among the belgae : but he again contradicts the glassenbury story . for malmsbury saith , that the barbarous king obstinately refused to quit his religion , but , out of pity to them , gave them the island to live in ; but white saith , he was well affected to the christian religion , and was in all respects an admirable prince . this arviragus he takes out of the (q) british history , where pleasant stories are told of him , and from thence in (r) matthew westminster , as , of his opposing claudius , and then marrying his daughter genissa , and the reconciliation between him and vespasian by her means , &c. and how his son marius succeeded him , and then coillus who was wonderfully beloved by the roman senate . here we have found at last the three kings of glassenbury , arviragus , marius and coillus , as they are exstant in capgrave and others : so that the glassenbury tradition had not its perfection till it had received these improvements from the british history . for william of malmsbury , though he took so great pains in this matter , yet knew nothing of arviragus , marius and coillus . he speaks indeed of three pagan kings giving twelve portions of land to the twelve brethren but he knew not their names . which grant , he saith , was confirmed by king lucius to twelve others who were placed there , in imitation of the first twelve . and this continued to the coming of st. patrick . and yet towards the conclusion of this book he saith , that anno domini . the king of dompnonia , i. e. devonshire and cornwall , gave to the old church in glassenbury the land called ynis withrin , or , the island of avalon . who this king was , he saith , he could not learn , but he concludes him to have been a britain , by calling the island by the british name . but as to arviragus , that there was a british prince of that name cannot be denied , since juvenal mentions him in domitian's time . omen habes , inquit , magni claríque triumphi , regem aliquem capies , aut de temone britanno excidet arviragus the (s) authour of the chronicle of dover understands this passage as spoken to nero ; which agrees much better with the tradition of glassenbury , but will by no means agree with juvenal , who saith plainly enough that satyr related to domitian and his flatterers . and this was a very insipid flattery to domitian , unless arviragus were a considerable prince then living , and an enemy to caesar. for what triumph could he have over a subject or a friend as aviragus is supposed after the reconciliation with vespasian ? and no such enemy could appear at that time in these parts of britain . for (t) petilius cerealis had conquer'd the brigantes , and julius frontinus the silures , and agricola after them the ordovices : and in the time of his government , tacitus saith , even the consederate cities among the britains , who stood upon terms of equality before , then submitted themselves to the roman power , and received garrisons among them . after this agricola proceeded northwards against new people , and destroyed them as far as the frith of taus ( tweed . ) then he fortified the passage between glota and bodotria ( dumbretton and edenborough frith . ) so that the romans were absolute lords of all this side , having cast out the enemy as it were into another land , as sir h. savil translates the words of tacitus . from which it is evident , there could be no such king as arviragus at that time in these parts of the island , over whom domitian could expect a triumph . but suppose there were , what is this to the eighth of nero , when joseph of arimathea is said to have come hither , at what time arviragus is said to be king in britain ? it is possible he might live so long , but how comes he to be never mention'd in the roman story , as prasutagus , cogidunus , caractacus , togodumnus and galgacus are ? arviragus his name was well known at rome in domitian's time ; why not spoken of before ? (u) some think he was the same with prasutagus ; but this cannot be , for prasutagus was dead before the revolt of the britains under boadicea , which was occasion'd by the romans ill usage of the britains after his death . and prasutagus left onely two daughters , what becomes then of his son marius ? whom (w) white would have to be cogidunus . but marius is said to succeed arviragus , who was alive in domitian's time , and cogidunus had the cities conferred upon him before suetonius paulinus came into britain , as appears by tacitus ; which are things inconsistent . (x) others say that arviragus was the same with caractacus ; for this opinion alford contends , and juvenal , he saith , mentions the name by a poetical licence , although he lived long before . but what reason is there to suppose that fabricius veienti should make such a course complement to domitian , that he should triumph over a man dead , and triumphed over once already , by claudius , who was never known at rome by any other name than caractacus ( as far as we can find ) by which he was so famous for his long opposition to the romans ? but it is very probable , that in domitian's time , after the recalling agricola , and taking away the life of salustius lucullus , his successour , the britains took up arms under arviragus . and the (y) learned primate of armagh mentions an old british coin in sir r. cotton's collections with these letters on it arivog , from whence he thinks his true name was arivogus , which the romans turned to arviragus . and the old scholiast there saith , that was not his true name . the britains being now up in arms , as far as we can learn , were not repressed till hadrian came over in person , and built the first wall , to keep them out of the roman province . for , before this , (z) spartianus saith , the britains could not be kept in subjection to the roman power . so that here was a fit season in domitian's time ( agricola being recalled in the beginning of domitian's reign ) for such a king as arviragus to appear in the head of the britains , and it was then a suitable complement to him , to wish him a triumph over arviragus . but (a) alford saith , that claudius sent caractacus home again , and after many years he dyed in peace , being a friend to the romans . how then comes tacitus to take no notice of him , as he doth of cogidunus ? is it probable the romans would restore so subtile and dangerous an enemy as caractacus had been to them ? cogidunus had been always faithfull to them , but caractacus an open enemy , and the silures still in being , over whom he commanded , and not over the belgae , as he must have done , if he were the arviragus who gave the hydes of land to joseph of arimathea and his companions . these things i have here put together to shew for what reasons i decline the tradition of joseph of arimathea's coming hither to preach the gospel . and although they may not be sufficient to convince others , yet i hope they may serve to clear me from unexcusable partiality , which (b) mr. cressy charges on all who call this tradition into question . ( . ) but , notwithstanding , i hope to make it appear from very good and sufficient evidence , that there was a christian church planted in britain during the apostles times . and such evidence ought to be allow'd in this matter which is built on the testimony of ancient and credible writers , and hath a concurrent probability of circumstances . i shall first produce the testimony of ancient and credible writers . for it is an excellent rule of (c) baronius in such cases , that no testimonies of later authours are to be regarded concerning things of remote antiquity , which are not supported by the testimony of ancient writers . and there is a difference in the force of the testimony of ancient writers themselves , according to their abilities and opportunities . for some had far greater judgment than others , some had greater care about these matters , and made it more their business to search and enquire into them ; and some had greater advantages by being present in the courts of princes or councils of bishops , whereby they could better understand the beginning and succession of churches . and for all these , there was none more remarkable in antiquity than eusebius , being a learned and inquisitive person , a favorite of constantine , the first christian emperour ( born and proclaimed emperour in britain ) one present at the council at nice , whither bishops were summoned from all parts of the empire , and one that had a particular curiosity to examine the history of all churches , designing an ecclesiastical history out of the collections he made . the testimony of a person so qualified cannot but deserve great consideration , especially , when it is not delivered by way of report , but when the force of an argument depends upon it . and (d) eusebius , in his third book of evangelical demonstration , undertakes to prove , that the apostles , who first preached the gospel to the world , could be no impostours or deceivers ; and , among other arguments , he makes use of this , that although it were possible for such men to deceive their neighbours and countreymen with an improbable story , yet what madness were it for such illiterate men , who understood onely their mother tongue , to go about to deceive the world by preaching this doctrine in the remotest cities and countries ? and having named the romans , persians , armenians , parthians , indians , scythians ; he adds particularly , that some passed over the ocean 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to those which are called the british islands . from whence he concludes , that some more than humane power did accompany the apostles , and that they were no light or inconsiderable men , much less impostours and deceivers . now unless this had been a thing very well known at that time , that christianity was planted here by the apostles , why should he so particularly and expresly mention the british islands ? it cannot be said that they are onely set down to denote the most remote and obscure places . for , long before that time , the british islands were very well known all over the roman empire , britain having been the scene of many warlike actions from claudius his time ; the occasion of emperours additional titles and triumphs ; the residence of roman lieutenants and legions ; the place of many roman colonies , cities and ways : but especially , about constantine's time , it was the talk of the world , for the revolt of carausius and allectus ; the victory and death of constantius here ; the succession of constantine , and his being declared emperour by the army in britain . so that scarce any roman province was so much interested in the several revolutions of the empire as britain , and therefore constantine going from hence , and being so much in the esteem of eusebius , it is not to be conceived , that he should speak these words at random , but that he had made a diligent enquiry both of constantine himself , to whom he was well known , and of others of his court , concerning the state of the british churches , of what continuance they were , and by whom planted . after all which eusebius affirms it with so much assurance , that some of the apostles preached the gospel in the british islands . much to the same purpose (e) theodoret speaks , another learned and judicious church historian . for among the nations converted by the apostles , he expresly names the britains ; and elsewhere saith , (f) that st. paul brought salvation to the islands that lie in the ocean , after he had mention'd spain , and therefore in all probability the british islands are understood by him . and in another place (g) he saith , that st. paul , after his release at rome , went to spain , and from thence carried the light of the gospel to other nations . what other nations so likely to be understood as those which lay the nearest , and are elsewhere said to be converted by the apostles , as the britains are by him ? st. (h) jerome saith , that st. paul , having been in spain , went from one ocean to another , imitating the motion and course of the sun of righteousness , of whom it is said , his going forth is from the end of heaven , and his circuit unto the ends of it ; and that his diligence in preaching extended as far as the earth it self . which are more indefinite expressions . but elsewhere he saith , (i) that st. paul , after his imprisonment , preached the gospel in the western parts ; by which the british islands were especially understood ; as will appear by the following testimony of (k) clemens romanus , who saith , st. paul preached righteousness through the whole world , and in so doing went 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to the utmost bounds of the west . which passage will necessarily take in britain , if we consider what was then meant by the bounds of the west . plutarch , in the life of caesar , speaking of his expedition into britain , saith , he was the first who brought a fleet into the western ocean ; by which he understands the sea between gaul and britain . and (l) eusebius several times calls the british ocean , the western , and joins the british ocean and the western parts together . and (m) elsewhere he mentions gaul and the western parts beyond it ; by which he understands britain . and (n) theodoret reckons up the inhabitants of spain , of britain and gaul , ( who , saith he , lie between the other two ) as those who dwell in the bounds of the west ; and among these the britains must be in the utmost bounds , because the gauls lie in the midst . (o) herodotus saith , the celtae are the most western of all the europeans . now the ancient greek geographers knew of but two nations in europe besides themselves , the celtae and the scythae ; these latter comprehended all in the most northern parts of europe , and the celtae the western ; and among these the remotest were the britains . thence (p) horace calls them , vltimos orbis britannos ; as (q) catullus before him , vltimósque britannos . for before the discovery of britain , the morini , who lived over against it , were said to be the utmost people of the earth . so (r) virgil calls them , extremos hominum morinos . and (s) pliny , vltimíque hominum existimati morini . aethicus saith they were , gentes oceani occidentalis . but britain being throughly made known in the time of claudius , the utmost bounds of the west must be understood of britain , especially since (t) catullus calls britain , vltimam occidentis insulam . and (u) arnobius setting down the bounds of the gospel east and west , for the east he mentions the indians , and for the west the britains . i cannot but wonder what so learned a man as (w) joh. launoy means , when , being urged by his adversaries with this place of clemens his epistle to prove the apostolical antiquity of the gallican churches , he fairly rejects the authority of this epistle , which hath been so universally received by all learned men since the first publishing of it . but then he argues well , that if this passage holds for gaul , it will much more hold for britain . so that from this undoubted testimony of clemens it follows , not onely , that the gospel was preached in britain in the times of the romans , but , that st. paul himself was the preacher of it . which is affirmed by (x) venantius fortunatus , where he describes st. paul's labours . transit & oceanum , vel quà facit insula portum , quásque britannus habet terras quásque ultima thule . but because this may look onely like a poetical expression , ( . ) to make this out more fully , i shall consider the concurrent probability of circumstances , together with these testimonies . and i shall make it appear , ( . ) from st. paul's circumstances , that he had leisure and opportunity enough to have come hithe● ( . ) from the circumstances of britain , that here was incouragement and invitation enough for him to come . ( . ) from the circumstances of the rest of the apostles , that he was the most likely to come hither of any of them . ( . ) that st. paul had leisure and opportunity enough to come hither to preach the gospel . it is agreed by (y) eusebius , st. (z) jerome , and others of the ancients , that st. paul suffer'd at rome , th . of nero. (a) baronius saith , the th . reckoning the years of nero exactly from the beginning of his reign in october ; but (b) petavius saith , that the ancients reckon'd the years according to the usual custome of a civil year . so that the th . of nero's reign is the th . from the calends of january . st. paul was sent to rome , when festus was made procuratour of judaea , in the room of felix , which was , say eusebius and st. jerome , in the second of nero ; and i see no reason to question it ; for although felix succeeded cumanus in the government of judaea , who was not condemned till the th . of claudius ( from whence to the second of nero cannot be reckon'd those many years (c) st. paul saith he had been governour among the jews ) yet we are to consider , that felix was not sent immediately from rome , as (d) baronius mistakes , but upon cumanus his sentence , had his former government inlarged . judaea being then added to his province , and part of the province which he had before being given to agrippa , as (e) josephus saith ; so that part of galilee and samaria having been under his government before , saint paul might well say , he had been a ruler among them many years , although he were dismissed in the second of nero . and although (f) tacitus saith , that felix had been a long time governour of judaea , yet it appears , by the distribution of the province between cumanus and him , that before cumanus his banishment , that which was properly judaea fell not to his share ; and it is not probable that his government should outlast the favour of pallas with nero , which mightily declined in his second year . after saint paul's coming to rome , saint luke saith , he abode there (g) two years . but (h) massutius observes from the circumstances of saint paul's voyage , that he could not come to rome till the third of nero. so that he could not have his liberty till the fifth , upon occasion of the favours shew'd , as he conjectures , to prisoners and exiles on the murther of agrippina . but from this time to his returning to rome , he went up and down preaching the gospel . to which time (i) godeau , in his life of saint paul , allows eight years : (k) massutius rather more ; (l) baronius the same ; and he saith , it was time enough for him to pass through the whole world ; which massutius repeats after him . the question now is , where saint paul employ'd all this time ? the ancient writers of the church generally say , in the western parts ; so clemens , theodoret , st. jerome , athanasius , epiphanius , and others . but i need not to insist on particular testimonies , since the onely learned (m) person who hath opposed this opinion doth ingenuously confess it to have been the common and received opinion of all the fathers . and i see no reason , by any thing he hath produced , to recede from it . for suppose we should grant , that he went back into the eastern parts , and visited the churches there , some part of this time ; yet there is enough still left for st. paul to preach the gospel in britain and other western parts , as the fathers say that he did . and if we compare the time spent by st. paul in his former travels in the east , and allow him to use an equal diligence afterwards , there cannot appear any improbability that he should come into britain , and establish a christian church here . three peregrinations of st. paul we have an account of in the acts of the apostles , before his voyage to rome . the (n) first is of him and barnabas , from antioch to seleucia , cyprus , perga , iconium , lystra , and derbe of lycaonia ; from whence they returned back and settled the government of the churches then planted by them . and although it be said (o) that they abode long at iconium and antioch , yet (p) massutius shews , that this whole peregrination took up but five years : which is as much as (q) baronius allows from the beginning of it , to the council of jerusalem . for that he placeth in the th of claudius , and this in the th . but (r) he makes their return to antioch in the th , so that he allows but three years to the founding and settling so many churches . after the council at jerusalem , saint paul takes another progress from antioch , and went through (s) syria and cilicia , from thence to derbe and lystra ; and so through phrygia , and galatia , and mysia ; and then from troas crossed the sea into macedonia , where he first preached at philippi , a roman colonie : and from thence passed to thessalonica , and so to berrhoea , athens and (t) corinth , where he tarried a year and six months and more , and then failed into syria , and made haste to jerusalem , and so returned to antioch . this second progress (u) baronius reckons from the ninth of claudius to the twelfth , and half the time was spent at corinth . the third was again from antioch over all the countrey of galatia and phrygia , to which (w) baronius allows a years time ; and the next he fixes at ephesus , where st. paul saith he (x) tarried three years ( not exactly , but the far greatest part of it , having taught (y) three months in the synagogue , and two years in the school of tyrannus . ) from ephesus he goes into macedonia and achaia , and having abode there three months , he returned through macedonia to troas , and from thence went to miletus , whither he sent for the elders of the church , and took his solemn leave of them , saying , (z) that they should see his face no more . from miletus he passed to phoenicia , and so to jerusalem , where he was kept two years in custody , and then sent by festus to rome . this is a short account of st. paul's labours and diligence in preaching the gospel before his imprisonment at rome . and we cannot suppose a person of such indefatigable industry and pains , should lie still so many years after . it is certain he thought he should never return more to the eastern parts , when he said so solemnly , i know that ye all , among whom i have gone preaching the kingdom of god , shall see my face no more . which words do not onely concern the church of ephesus , but all the other churches planted by him in the east ; and this he speaks not as his fear or conjecture , but out of certain knowledge . and therefore it is not probable he should return into the east , nor , if he did , would this hinder his coming into these parts afterwards , where he might plant churches within that time . but it is objected , that there are no certain monuments of such churches planted by him in italy , gaul , germany or spain . what certain monuments are there of new churches planted by him in the east after his return ? and it is so much less probable , because the eastern writers , who should know best , allot this time to his preaching in the west . but it is well observed by the learned (a) m. velserus , speaking of the preaching of the apostles , st. peter and st. paul , in these western parts , that we are not to judge of the planting of churches by the remaining annals and monuments , because on the one side we are certain that their sound went out into all the earth : and on the other , great care was taken in the several persecutions , especially that of dioclesian , to burn all the monuments which concerned the christian churches . but yet , as to britain , we have undoubted testimony of a christian church planted here by the apostles , and by none so probably as saint paul. for gildas saith , the gospel was here received before the fatal defeat of the britains by suetonius paulinus ; which , according to sir h. savil's fasti , was the seventh of nero , the eighth saith petavius : and st. paul being at liberty the fifth , had time and conveniency enough to settle a christian church in britain . ( . ) that there was incouragement and invitation enough for st. paul to come into britain , not onely from the infinite numbers of people , which , (b) caesar saith , were here in his time , but from the new settlements that were daily making here by the romans , after the first success , which they had in the time of claudius : for then colonies were drawn over hither ; and not onely military colonies settled for the security of the roman conquests , such as that of camalodunum is described by (c) tacitus , formerly the royal seat of cynobelin , king of the trinobantes ; but also civil and trading colonies , such as london was from the beginning , and therefore commended by tacitus for its admirable situation for trading , and all accommodations to that end ; and , upon the best enquiry i can make , i very much incline to believe it of a roman foundation , and no elder than the time of claudius ( as will be made appear in another discourse : ) and that in the time of suetonius paulinus it was inhabited by romans and britains together , is evident from tacitus ; when suetonius paulinus drew out the inhabitants , the city not being then defensible against the britains , who in that revolt destroyed lxx thousand romans and their allies , saith tacitus ; but (d) dio saith , two cities ( london and verulam ; for camalodunum was destroyed before ) and eighty thousand men. this was a time of so much disorder and bloudshed , that gildas with great reason places the planting of christianity here before it . and st. paul might have some particular incouragement at rome to come hither from pomponia graecina , wife to a. plautius , the roman lieutenant under claudius in britain ; for that she was a christian appears very probable from the account tacitus gives of her ; (e) he saith , she was accused of foreign superstition , and that so far as to endanger her life ; but her husband clear'd her , sitting as iudge according to the ancient form ; and she lived long after , but in perpetual sadness . if tacitus were to describe the primitive christians , he would have done it just after this manner , charging their religion with superstition , and the severity of their lives ( abstaining from all the feasts and jollities of the romans ) as a continual solitude . it was the way of the men of that time , such as (f) suetonius , and (g) pliny , as well as (h) tacitus , to speak of christianity as a barbarous and wicked superstition ( as appears by their writings ) being forbidden by their laws ; which they made the onely rule of religion . and this happen'd when nero and calphurnius piso were consuls , after st. paul's coming to rome , and therefore it is not unreasonable to suppose her one of his converts , by whom he might easily be informed of the state and condition of britain , and thereby be more incouraged to undertake a voyage thither . it is certain that st. paul did make considerable converts at his coming to rome ; which is the reason of his mentioning (i) the saints in caesar 's houshold . and it is not improbable that some of the british captives carried over with caractacus and his family might be some of them ; who would certainly promote the conversion of their countrey by st. paul. but i cannot affirm , as (k) moncaeius doth , that claudia , mention'd by st. paul , was caractacus his daughter , and turn'd christian , and after married to pudens a roman senatour ; whose marriage is celebrated by martial in his noted epigrams to that purpose . it is certain that claudia ruffina was a britain , who is so much commended by (l) martial for her wit and beauty . but if these epigrams were written in trajan's time , as is very probable , it is somewhat of the latest for the daughter of caractacus who came in claudius his time to rome . but (m) alford digests all this well enough , onely he is extremely concern'd , lest she should be made the apostle of britain , and preach here before st. peter . but the (n) authour of the antiquitates britannicae , whom he reflects upon , saith no such thing as he would impute to him . he onely saith , that if she were a christian she would acquaint her countreymen as much with the christian doctrine as she did before with martial 's witt. wherein there is no profaneness or absurdity . but he adds , that in so noble a family , the rest of her kindred who were baptized with her might be the occasions of dispersing christianity in the british nation . so that there was no need , for his bidding claudia to keep at home , and make room for st. peter to come to britain to preach the gospel . but if this claudia were st. paul's disciple , why might not she excite that apostle to go into her countrey , to plant christianity there , as he had done with so much success in other places ? and whether st. peter or st. paul were more probably the apostle of britain , is now to be considered . and i affirm , ( . ) that st. paul was the most likely to come hither of any of the apostles . the several traditions about st. james , simon zelotes and philip , are so destitute of any ancient testimony or probability , that the competition among the apostles can lie onely between st. peter and st. paul. some writers of our church history have endeavoured for particular reasons , to prove st. peter to have preached the gospel in britain ; but their proofs are very slight and inconsiderable , and depend chiefly on the authority of simeon metaphrastes or other legendary writers , or some monkish visions , or some domestick testimonies of his pretended successours , or some late partial advocates , such as (o) eysengrenius , who professes to follow metaphrastes . all which together are not worth mentioning in comparison with the authours on the other side ; i shall therefore examine the probability of the thing from the circumstances of st. peter , as i did before from those of st. paul ; and i shall endeavour to shew , that his business lay quite another way , and that there is no probable evidence of his coming hither . i take it for granted , that the apostles were employ'd according to the tenour of their commissions , viz. that the apostle of the circumcision was to attend the jews , and of the vncircumcision the gentiles . now st. paul saith , that (p) the gospel of the vncircumcision was committed to him , as the gospel of the circumcision was unto peter . this , (q) baronius saith , was agreed at the council at jerusalem . but he will not have it to be such a distribution of distinct provinces , as that the one upon no occasion should meddle with the gentiles , nor the other with the jews : but yet he grants , that the apostleship of the gentiles was in a particular manner committed to st. paul , as of the jews to st. peter . and whatever they might doe occasionally , this , as he proves from (r) st. jerome , was the principale mandatum , the main of the commission to either of them . which being supposed , it necessarily follows , that st. peter's chief employment must be where the greatest numbers of jews were . and from hence (s) petrus de marca infers , that st. peter , having preached to the jews in judaea , employed himself in converting the jews abroad both of the first and second dispersion . the latter were chiefly in aegypt , at alexandria , where he settled mark the bishop over the converted iews . from thence he went to antioch ; from thence to babylon , where the head of the first dispersion lived ; and in this city , he saith , he wrote his epistle to those dispersed jews , over whose synagogues the patriarch of babylon had jurisdiction . clemens romanus takes no notice at all of st. peter's preaching in the western parts , as he doth of st. paul's . but (t) eusebius , from origen , saith , that st. peter preached to the dispersed jews in pontus , galatia , bithynia , cappadocia , &c. and (u) epiphanius , even where he saith , that st. peter and st. paul did both constitute bishops at rome upon their going thence to preach the gospel in other places ; yet he adds , that st. paul went towards spain , but st. peter frequently visited pontus and bithynia , which was very agreeable to the design of his commission , there being so great a number of jews in those parts . and pontus and bithynia seem to have been reserved as the peculiar province of st. peter ; for when st. paul attempted to go into bithynia , (w) he was forbidden by the spirit , which then commanded him to come into europe . and so he made for macedonia . (x) baronius grants , that st. peter spent the greatest part of his time in the eastern parts , but about anno dom. lviii . he finds him employed in the west , and particularly among the britains . but what ancient authority , according to his own rule , doth he produce for it ? he names none but metaphrastes , and yet , as it falls out unluckily , when the same metaphrastes his authority is produced , for st. paul 's preaching in the western parts , he is apparently slighted by him (y) and for the very same reason , which holds against the former testimony , viz. for quoting things out of eusebius , which are not to be found in him . and elsewhere he saith , (z) he is of no authority in these matters . but metaphrastes his testimony serves to a good purpose in st. peter's case , viz. to clear a considerable difficulty , how st. peter , if then bishop of rome , should not be taken notice of by st. paul , when he wrote his epistle to the romans . to which he answers , that saint peter came to rome the second of claudius , but being banished thence with other jews the ninth of claudius , he spent the time then in preaching the gospel in other places , and so very conveniently finds him in britain , when st. paul wrote his epistle to the romans , which he placeth in the second of nero. but it is by no means probable , saith (a) valesius , that st. peter should come to rome before the death of herod agrippa . and (b) baronius saith , that after his being delivered out of prison , he went to caesarea , laodicea and antioch ( according to his own authour metaphrastes ) and then into cappadocia , pontus , galatia and bithynia , and so returned by antioch to jerusalem . so that if metaphrastes his authority be good for any thing , st. peter could hardly come to rome the second of claudius : and if the death of agrippa followed soon after the delivery of st. peter , as valesius thinks , and st. luke seems to intimate ; then he could not be at rome till the fourth of claudius , for all agree that agrippa died that year . so that there is no certainty of st. peter's coming to rome the second of claudius . yet let that be supposed , and that st. peter went from rome on the edict of claudius . what makes him so long absent from thence as to the second of nero , when (c) st. paul in his epistle to the romans salutes aquila and priscilla as then present at rome , who certainly left it before on the (d) account of that edict . so that this edict could be no reason of his being absent from rome at the time of this epistle . but it falls out unhappily , that though st. peter be made by baronius and others bishop of rome for twenty five years , yet he can never be found in his own diocese in all that time before his martyrdom ; but one excuse or other is still found for his absence , when there were several remarkable transactions which must have discovered him if he had been at rome ; as not onely upon st. paul's writing this epistle to the romans , but upon st. paul's coming to rome , upon his writing so many epistles from thence , upon the defence he made for himself , when he saith , (e) that all forsook him . what st. peter too ? so that upon the whole matter , the opinion of (f) lactantius in his late published book , seems most agreeable to truth , that st. peter came not to rome till the reign of nero , and not long before his martyrdom ; and this baluzius confesses to have been the most ancient and received opinion in the church , since lactantius never disputes it : and what he saith of the twenty five years wherein the apostles planted churches , was in likelihood the occasion of that mistaken tradition concerning saint peter 's being twenty five years bishop of rome . so much may suffice to shew the greater probability , that the christian church in britain was rather founded by st. paul than by st. peter or any other apostle . chap. ii. of the succession of the british churches to the first council of nice . the testimony of tertullian concerning them cleared . it extends onely to britains . the national conversion of the scots under king donald fabulous . of dempster's old annals . prosper speaks not of the scots in britain . tertullian to be understood of the provincial britains as well as others . the testimony of sulpitius severus examin'd . several testimonies of origen concerning the british churches in his time . the different traditions about king lucius . the state of the roman province here , overthrows his being king over all britain . great probability there was such a king in some part of it , and then converted to christianity . a conjecture proposed in what part of britain he reigned . the most probable means of his conversion , and the story cleared from monkish fables . of dioclesian's persecution in britain , and the stopping of it by the means of constantius . the flourishing of the british churches under constantine . the reason onely of three british bishops present at the council of arles . the great antiquity of episcopal government here . of the flamines and archiflamines of geffrey of monmouth ; how far agreeable to the roman constitution . maximinus set up a pagan hierarchy in imitation of the christian. the canons of the council of arles not sent to the pope to confirm , but to publish them . having shew'd the great probability of the planting a christian church here in the apostles time , and that by st. paul ; i am now to consider , the succession of this church ; of which we have undoubted evidence from the unquestionable testimonies of tertullian and origen , who mention it as a thing so very well known , that they use it as an argument against the jews , to prove christ to have been the promised messias , because the uttermost parts of the earth were given for his possession . tertullian flourished , as st. jerome saith , under severus and his son ; and in the time of severus he wrote against the jews , as (a) baronius proves from several passages in that book . in his time the affairs of britain were very well understood in other parts of the roman empire , especially by men so learned and inquisitive as tertullian . for clodius albinus having set up for the empire in britain , and being beaten by severus , near lyons , he took care to secure this province by sending virius lupus , his lieutenant , hither . but things growing troublesome here , severus himself undertook an expedition hither , and brought the britains to such terms , that they were contented to live beyond the wall which severus built ; where hadrian's wall had been before . the part of britain beyond the wall was called caledonia , as (b) dio saith . and it is apparent , that the romans were at that time fully acquainted with the condition of the britains , both within the province , and without ; and therefore tertullian cannot be supposed to speak at random about this matter ; when (c) he mentions the nations of gaul and the britains , with as much assurance as he doth his countreymen , the moors , for receiving christianity ; and saith , the kingdom of christ was advanced among them , and that christ was solemnly worshipped by them . tertullian was a man of too much understanding to expose himself to the contempt of the jews , by mentioning this as a thing so well known at that time , if the britains were then known to be no christians ; or , if they had been such , and were returned to barbarism , the argument would have been stronger against him . when therefore such a passage doth not fall by chance from such a writer , but the force of an argument depends upon it , it is of so much greater weight . how ridiculous would it appear for a man to prove that popery is the catholick religion , by instancing not onely in italy and spain , as the nations where it is universally received ; but in great britain , and denmark , and sweden ? no less was the absurdity then to prove christ's universal kingdom by enumerating gaul and britain with other nations where christ was worshipped , if there were no christian churches at that time in being among them . but there are two objections against this passage of tertullian , which must be removed . ( . ) that he speaks of that part of britain which was not under the roman power , and the conversion of it is said to be later than to be here mention'd by tertullian : for (d) joh. fordon and (e) joh. maior , from an ancient distick in both of them ( christi transactis tribus annis atque ducentis scotia catholicam coepit inire fidem . ) say , that the christian religion was received in scotland in a. d. . about the seventh of severus . but this was so little a time before tertullian's writing , that it could hardly be so well known in africa , as to afford strength to an argument against the jews . to which i answer , that it is true , tertullian doth add the greater emphasis to his argument by saying , et britannorum inaccessa romanis loca , christo vero subdita , the gospel had access to those parts of britain whither the romans had none . which doth prove , that christianity was then received beyond the wall , but not by the scots , who were not yet settled in those parts ; but by the old britains , who were driven thither , as appears by the account given by (f) xiphilin out of dio , who saith , that the britains were divided into two sorts , the maeatae and the caledonii ; the former dwelt by the wall , and the latter beyond them . these were the extraprovincial britains , and were distinct both from the picts and the scots , saith (g) joh. fordon , who carefully distinguisheth these three nations when he speaks of their wars with the romans ; and he makes fulgentius the head of the britains of albany in the time of severus ; but he supposes both the scots and picts to have been in the northern parts long before , and that the scots received the christian faith in the time of severus , victor being then bishop of rome , who succeeded eleutherius ; to whom , saith (h) hector boethius , king donald sent embassadours , to desire him to send persons fit to instruct them in the christian faith. and upon this , saith he , it was generally received in scotland . * dempster , according to his custome , is very warm in this matter , and saith , all their annals and histories agree , that king donald and the whole kingdom of scotland did then embrace christianity ; and is angry with baronius for putting off their conversion to the time of palladius . but notwithstanding all his boasting of the consent of annals and histories , the scotichronicon is the onely authority he hath to produce : and in his preface he saith , that king edward i. destroy'd all the monuments of the kingdom ; and it is somewhat unreasonable to complain of the want , and to alledge the consent of them at the same time . and besides , he produceth something out of fordon concerning paschasius of sicily , being sent by victor into scotland , and returning with a message from king donald , which is not to be found in fordon . but , as (i) baronius observes , it is strange , that so remarkable a conversion should be ommitted not onely by bede , but by marianus scotus , who mentions the mission of palladius . and (k) prosper saith , vpon the mission of palladius , who was made the first bishop over the scotish christians , the people , who were barbarous before , were made christians . but it is urged by dempster , not without shew of authority , that palladius was sent to those which were already christians , and therefore christianity must be planted among the scots before the mission of palladius ; and for this he quotes beda , ado viennensis , hermannus contractus , marianus scotus , and others ; and he blames platina and ciacconius who make him the instrument of their conversion , wherein he confesseth they follow fabius ethelwerd and ingulphus ; but he takes no notice , that prosper himself , in his chronicon , affirms the same thing , and the others have it from him . so that prosper makes the scots to be converted by palladius , and to have been christians before his time ; which are inconsistent : but (l) nennius seems to have hit upon the true account of this matter , viz. that palladius was sent by celestine to convert the scots , but , finding no great success therein , he was driven on the coasts of britain , and there died : and after his death , st. patrick was sent on the same errand . and , if the writers of his life may be believed , palladius did very little towards the conversion of the scots ; and therefore what prosper saith of celestine's making a barbarous nation christian , must be understood of his design and good intention , and not of the event , which came not to pass till some time after ; and chiefly , by the means of st. patrick , who went after the death of palladius : unless we understand the words of prosper , of those who were made christians at the time of his writing ; the design whereof being laid by palladius is therefore attributed to him , when he wrote against cassian , sometime after the death of celestine : but when he wrote his chronicon , in the time of leo , the scots being then converted ; he saith , that palladius was appointed to be bishop over the believing scots . not that they did then believe before palladius his coming , but that they did now believe when he wrote his chronicon . for all the testimonies of such as preached there before palladius are of very little credit . but nothing of all this relates to the scots in britain ; but to the original scots in ireland , who were uncapable of a national conversion in britain , so long before they came to settle in it , as will appear afterwards : so that if there were any conversion of scots before the mission of palladius , it cannot at all respect this place of tertullian , who speaks onely of the britains , and not of the scots . and dio knew of none but britains that lived northward in that expedition of severus , although , he saith , he went to the utmost extent of the island , and at last concluded a peace with the britains upon their quitting no small part of their countrey , although they soon revolted ; so that here was a great number of britains to be converted in those places where the romans never had been before severus his last expedition : which the scotish historians apply to the conversion of their nation , who were not yet come into britain . but allowing that there were churches planted among the northern britains , this doth not overthrow the continuance and propagation of the christian church among the provincial britains ; for now , for a long time , the christian religion had a great liberty of propagating it self ; for , from the time of hadrian to severus , the christians were generally free from persecution , excepting what the rage of the people brought upon them in some places , without any edict of the emperours , as in the time of the antonini both at rome , in gaul , and some parts of the east : but these persecutions were neither general , nor continued so long as when the emperours published edicts on purpose ; and therefore , the persecutions under trajan and the antonini , ought in reason to be distinguished from those under nero and domitian , decius and dioclesian , when the emperours made it their business to root out christianity . but in the former case , the emperours restrain'd the people by their edicts , but the people in some places by false suggestions frustrated the design of those edicts , which places excepted , the christians enjoy'd a long time of liberty ; in which they neglected no opportunities to promote their religion . and within this time the christian writers say , there was no nation almost then known , where christianity was not planted . so (m) justin martyr tells trypho ; so (n) eusebius and ruffinus speak ; (o) and (p) lactantius saith , that christianity spread it self into the east and west , so that there was scarce any corner of the earth so remote whither it had not pierced , no nation so barbarous that was not reduced by it . as to britain , gildas affirms the continuance of a church here , from the first plantation of the gospel , though not maintain'd with equal zeal to the persecution of dioclesian ; and even that was so far from destroying it , that it gained strength and reputation by the courage of confessours and martyrs ; and the heat of it was no sooner over , but , as (q) bede and (r) gildas both say , the christian church flourished again in great peace and vnity till the arian heresie gave it disturbance . ( . ) it is objected , that (s) sulpicius severus , speaking of the persecution of christians in gaul in the time of m. aurelius antoninus , saith , that martyrdoms were then first seen in gaul , the christian religion being more lately received beyond the alpes . which seems to overthrow the antiquity of the britannick as well as the gallick churches . but in my opinion ( after so many discourses written in a neighbour nation about this passage ) we are to distinguish that which sulpicius severus absolutely affirms , viz. that there were no martyrdoms in gaul before that time ; from that which he supposes to have been the reason of it , viz. that the christian religion was more lately received on this side the alpes . the other he was certain of , there being no authentick relation of any martyrdoms there before ; but that which he assigns as the reason of it , hath no such certainty in it ; for the christian churches might have been planted there before , and have escaped that persecution which befell the churches of lyons and vienna in the time of m. aurelius : he might as well have argued , that christianity was not here received till a little before the persecution of dioclesian , because we reade of no martyrdoms before those of st. alban , julius and aaron , at that time . but if there were no edict for persecution of christians for above an hundred years together , viz. from the persecution of domitian , anno dom. . to the edict of severus , anno dom. . then it was very possible that there might be christian churches in gaul , and yet no martyrdoms till the persecution under m. aurelius by a popular tumult , which , as (t) eusebius tells us , was the seventeenth year of his reign . (u) baronius thinks that m. aurelius sent private edicts against the christians . but (w) tertullian saith , none of their good emperours ever persecuted the christians , and instanceth in trajan , hadrian , pius , verus and m. aurelius . (x) eusebius saith , that trajan abated the fierceness of the persecution , but left the laws in force upon information ; that hadrian , in his rescript to minutius fundanus , proconsul of asia , forbad a general persecution of any as christians ; that , antoninus pius , not onely pursued the same method , but threatned severe punishment to all informers : the same he saith of m. aurelius . in commodus his time , he saith , the christian churches flourished very much in all parts ; so that till severus his edict there was no persecution , by virtue of any edict of the emperours ; by the account which eusebius gives . and (y) lactantius hardly allows any persecution at all from domitian to decius . not but that the christians suffered very much in some places , through the rage of the people , and the violence of some governours of provinces ; but there was no general persecution countenanced by the emperours edicts , and therefore , where the people were quiet or intent upon other things , there might be christian churches where there were no such martyrdoms as those of lyons and vienna . it is certain that (z) irenaeus mentions the consent of the celtick churches , and those of germany and the iberi , with the eastern and libyan churches . all the question is , whether this ought to be restrained to the churches planted among the celtae , as they were one division of the gauls in caesar's time , or whether he took the word in the larger sense , as comprehending all the gauls . this latter seems much more probable , because irenaeus , in none of the others mention'd by him , takes any particular division of the people , but the general name , as of the germans and iberi , and why not then the celtae in as large a sense ? since (a) strabo , (b) plutarch , (c) appian , and others , call the gauls in general by the name of celtae ; and tertullian manifestly rejects that sense of celtae for one division of the gauls , when he mentions the several nations of the gauls which had embraced christianity . but i will not insist , as (d) petrus de marca doth , that tertullian by the galliarum diversae nationes means the four provinces of gaul into which augustus did distribute it : but i say , that there is no reason to limit the sense of tertullian to one division of the gauls , supposing the different nations do comprehend those of gallia cisalpina and transalpina ; although i see no ground to understand tertullian so , (e) since the name of gallia cisalpina was much difused ; especially after the new distribution of the empire by hadrian . so that from the testimonies of irenaeus and tertullian , we see no reason to question the greater antiquity of the celtick churches than sulpicius severus intimates , much less to overthrow the antiquity of the britannick churches . for , besides this testimony of tertullian concerning the british churches ; we have another of (f) origen , not long after , who saith , when did britain before the coming of christ consent in the worship of one god ? which implies , that the britains were then known to be christians ; and , by being so , were brought off from the former idolatry . and unless so learned a man as origen had been fully satisfied of the truth of this , having choice enough of other instances , he would not have run as far as britain to bring an argument to prove , that all the earth doth praise the lord ; which , he saith , is fulfilled in the christian churches dispersed over the world. but i wonder what should make two such learned antiquaries as (g) mr. camden and (h) bishop godwin , so far to mistake the sense of origen , to understand him as if he had said , that britain , by the help of the druids , always consented in the belief of one god , whereas it is very plain , that origen speaks of it as a great alteration that was made in the religion of the britains after the coming of christ. and origen doth not onely speak of the belief , but of the worship of one god , which it is certain from caesar , that the druids did never instruct the people in . but the christian religion alter'd the whole scheme of the druids worship , and instead of their taranis and hesus , and teutates , and belenus , and andate , it taught them to believe and worship one true god , and jesus christ , whom he hath sent to be the saviour of the world ; whose power , (i) origen saith elsewhere , was seen in britain as well as mauritania . thus far i have endeavoured to clear the apostolical succession of the british churches , which those have rendred more doubtfull , who have derived our christianity from king lucius his message to pope eleutherius , and the persons he sent over to convert him and the whole nation , as the tradition goes , to the christian faith. but there is a considerable difference to be observed about this tradition , not merely about the time of the conversion of this king lucius ( of which (k) archbishop vsher hath given so full an account , that to his diligence therein , nothing material can be added ) but concerning the means and manner of his conversion , and the persons employ'd in it . for (l) petrus equilinus saith , that he was baptized by timothy , a disciple of st. paul ; and he had it from a much better authour , for (m) notkerus balbulus saith , that king lucius was baptized by timothy ; not the timothy to whom saint paul wrote his epistles ; but the brother of novatus , whose names are extant in the old martyrology published by rosweyd , cal. julii ; who were both , saith (n) baronius , sons to pudens a roman senatour ; the same who is supposed to have been marryed to claudia rufina the britain ; and therefore his son might not improbably be employ'd in this work of converting a british king. (o) nauclerus takes notice , that this relation agrees best with the tradition of the church of curia , a noted city of rhaetia . and (p) pantaleon calls lucius the disciple of timothy ; out of the annals of that church . from whence q marcus velserus shews , that he did not die here in britain , but went over into those parts of rhaetia to preach the gospel , and there suffer'd martyrdom : or , at least , ended his days ; for they are not agreed about the manner of his death . (r) aegidius tschudus saith the former , who adds , that there is a place near curia called clivus s. lucii still ; and (s) munster saith , near the episcopal palace , there is monasterium sancti lucii . and (t) ferrarius in his new topography to the martyrologium romanum , reckons king lucius of britain one of the martyrs of curia , which the germans call chur , and the italians choira . and the (u) roman martyrology saith , that there his memory is still observed . (w) notkerus balbulus saith , that he converted all rhaetia , and part of bavaria . if so , they had great reason to preserve his memory , and the british church , on the account of king lucius his converting their countrey , hath as much right to challenge superiority over bavaria and rhaetia , as the church of rome hath over the british church on the account of the conversion of lucius by eleutherius . if this tradition hold good , the other cannot ; which differs as to time , persons , and the remainder of his life , which our writers say , was spent here ; and (x) geffrey , from the british history saith , that he died at gloucester , and left no heir to succeed him . wherein he is follow'd by (y) john fordon , who saith , that after the death or disappearance of king lucius the royal stock failed , and then the romans appointed governours instead of kings . but , by that expression , vel non comparente , fordon seems to doubt , whether he did not withdraw in his old age , according to the german tradition . (z) nennius saith , that anno domini . lucius , king of britain , with all the inferiour kings of britain , were baptized upon an embassy sent by the roman emperours and pope evaristus . but the old ms. in the cotton library hath it , post annos post adventum christi . one of the cambridge mss. post annos . in the margin whereof it is said , that nennius is grievously mistaken , because evaristus his time cannot agree to either of the computations , evaristus dying , according to the old catalogue of the bishops of rome made about an. d. . when trebonius gallus and metilius bradua were consuls , which , according to the fasti both of onuphrius panvinius and sir h. savil , was anno dom. . but archbishop vsher observes , that in one copy of nennius he found the name of eleutherius , therefore i pass it over : and yet the time of eleutherius will not agree with either of these computations : for he was made bishop of rome , according to the same catalogue in the consulship of severus and herennianus , which , according to those fasti , is anno dom. . but it will be too hard to press the point of chronology too far , when (a) bede , according to different computations , sometimes puts anno dom. . and at another time anno dom. . but as long as it is generally agreed to have been in the time of m. aurelius and lucius verus , and the beginning of eleutherius his popedom , i shall urge this matter no farther ; since it must come within a very little compass , if the characters of time must suit with it , which , marianus scotus saith , was when pollio and aper were consuls , the sixteenth of m. aurelius , and anno dom. . according to the dionysian account , although marianus follow another himself . which falls out to be the year before the persecution of the churches of lyons and vienna , which , as (b) eusebius saith , was the seventeenth of m. aurelius , when irenaeus was sent by them on a message to eleutherius . (c) baronius places the conversion of lucius somewhat later , in the beginning of commodus , anno dom. . but therein , as archbishop vsher observes , he hath all the more ancient historians against him ; and it is onely his own mistake in the chronology of the first bishops of rome , which makes him say , the time of eleutherius , will not agree to m. aurelius and lucius verus , wherein he is too much followed by our (d) learned antiquary . having then found no such inconsistency in the point of time , but that if there were such a king as lucius in britain then , he might well send to eleutherius such a message ; i now proceed to consider , how far this tradition of king lucius can agree with the state of the british affairs at that time . the britains being impatient of the roman yoke in hadrian's time , he comes over and brings new legions with him ; and settles the whole province in quietness , and built his wall , to keep the other britains in order . notwithstanding this , in antoninus his time , the war broke out more fiercely ; and not onely the (e) other britains forced their passage into the roman province , but , as (f) pausanias saith , the brigantes rebelled , who , for that cause , had part of their countrey taken from them . but lollius vrbicus being sent hither , he drove the britains back , built another wall farther northwards , where agricola formerly had placed his garrisons , as appears by the (g) inscriptions there taken up : so that lollius vrbicus drove the britains miles northward ; for so much is the distance between the walls of hadrian and antoninus . for all this , the britains brake out again with so much violence in the beginning of (h) m. aurelius antoninus his reign , that calphurnius agricola was sent against them , and from that time we reade of no disturbance here till the time of commodus , when (i) vlpius marcellus was roman lieutenant . this being the true state of britain at that time , what place is here left for such a king over britain as lucius is represented ? he must either be over the britains beyond the wall , which overthrows one main part of the tradition as to his settling the churches here after his conversion ; or , he must be the head of the revolting britains who were repressed by calphurnius agricola ; or , he must be a subordinate king to the romans , such as cogidunus and prasutagus had been . but then , how comes he to command all britain ? to have several kings under him ? to change the affairs of religion as he thought fit ? were these privileges ever allowed to such titulary princes ? it is very true , that the romans did often suffer kings to govern provinces under them ; but then they were provinces wholly subdued and compassed about with the roman forces on all sides : but no instance can be given where they suffer'd an hereditary king of the same countrey to enjoy full power over his subjects , whilest a great part of the countrey was in arms against them , and ready to break out into a war , wherein the romans were in continual fear , that the natives within the province should join with those without for their destruction . for them , in such a case as this , to trust such a king as lucius with the government of the province , is to suppose them , to have utterly lost those arts whereby they attained so vast an empire . the case of antiochus in asia , herod and his children in judaea , dejotarus in galatia , ariobarzanes in cappadocia , and of many others that might be named , will not at all make it probable , where the circumstances were so different , and especially in such an island as britain was then accounted , being incompassed with a sea , which the romans thought dreadfull and almost unpassable , (k) semota & vasto disjuncta britannia ponto cinctáque inaccessis horrida littoribus , whither supplies could not come without difficulty ; and where the inhabitants despised death and danger , as they found by so tedious a war , which was kept up so long here : and , after all , they were forced to keep out their enemies by walls from sea to sea , in several places : so that the romans never had the whole island in subjection . and therefore it is very improbable , that they should trust the power over it in the hands of a native of the same countrey ; which consideration makes me very hard to believe the monkish traditions concerning king lucius . but i do not deny , that there was such a person in this island , or that he had royal authority in some part of it , or that he was converted to christianity at that time , or that the christian church here flourished by his means . that there was such a person , who was a king and a christian , is proved , besides the concurrence of so many authours from bede's time , from the two coins mention'd by (l) archbishop vsher , one silver , and the other gold , having an image of a king on them , with a cross , and the letters of lvc , as far as they could be discerned . but if it be farther asked in what part of britain this king lucius lived , i shall onely propose my conjecture , and leave it to the judgment of others . it is well known that the romans were so well satisfied with the fidelity of cogidunus , that they bestow'd some cities upon him . and tacitus saith , he continued firm to the roman interest to his time . and where kings were faithfull to them , the romans were kind to their posterity , and kept them up in the same dignity as long as they behaved themselves as they expected from them . of this we have a clear instance in herod's posterity ; for archelaus , herodes antipas and philip , his sons , succeeded into their shares of his kingdom . then herod agrippa , his grandchild by aristobulus , was made king by caius caligula , whose government was inlarged by claudius , and his brother herod had the kingdom of chalcis given him : sometime after his father's death , claudius bestow'd first the kingdom of chalcis upon his son agrippa , then the tetrarchy of philip , which was inlarged afterwards by nero , and he continued till the war , and was the last king over the jews . now from hence we observe , that the romans thought it no ill policy in some cases to continue the same royal dignity to the children of those who deserved so well of them as cogidunus had done . and it seems most probable to me , that where ptolemy places the regni , were the cities which cogidunus had the rule over ; not from the name , but from the circumstances of those places , which have fewer roman monuments or towns than any other in britain , and therefore were most likely still under their own prince , who kept up the british customs . whereever the romans inhabited , they may be traced by their ways , by their buildings , by their coins , by their urns , by their inscriptions : but scarce any thing of this nature could be found in surry or sussex by the most diligent enquirers . (m) leland indeed discover'd some roman coins near kingston upon thames , where others have been taken up since : ( but camden could hear of no roman antiquities thereabouts . ) and (n) some suppose the place where those coins were taken up , to have been a station of the roman souldiers under asclepiodotus , when he marched that way from portsmouth to london , in the expedition against allectus . if so , it was too late for the days of king lucius . all that (o) camden pretends to , is onely a military way near ockley , which was necessary for the conveniency of the roman souldiers passing to the remoter parts of the province , and some coins about gatton ; but as to his noviomagus which he will have to be woodcote in surrey , (p) mr. somner hath well proved from the course of the roman itinerary , that it must lie in kent , in the road to portus rutupis : and woodcote is as far from it as london . in all sussex there is no remainder of any roman building , or way , or colony , or coins yet discovered to the world , except towards the sea side , which the romans kept to themselves . in antoninus pius his time (q) seius saturnius was archigubernus in classe britannica ; which shews , that the romans had then a fleet here , and that he was admiral of it . and in after-times , the comes litoris saxonici per britanniam , had several garrisons on the sea side for security of the coasts , as appears by the (r) notitia imperii where the places are set down , among which two were on the coasts of sussex anderida and portus adurni ; by the former our learned antiquaries (s) camden and (t) selden understand newenden in kent , but that stands too much within land. mr. somner in a ms. discourse of the roman ports and forts in kent , rather thinks it to be pemsey in sussex , or hastings , as more agreeing with (u) gildas , who saith , that the romans placed their forts for security of the coasts in litore oceani ad meridionalem plagam , upon the very coasts ; and so the rest of them stood , as reculver , richborough , dover , lim , which were all in kent ; and the portus adurni was aldrington near shoreham in sussex . from hence it appears , that the romans , being secure of the coasts , and having their souldiers dispersed in the colonies about , and being so near the metropolis at london , where the chief governours of this part of britain resided ; they might better permit a british king to govern these parts of the countrey . and this is the most probable account i can think of , as to this king lucius within the roman province . (w) sir h. spelman would bring him to his iceni , but without any colour of probability ; lucius , saith he , was the son of coilus , coilus of marius , marius of arviragus . and what then ? some , he saith , would have him to be prasutagus , who was king over the iceni . but doth not (x) tacitus say , that prasutagus died before the revolt of the britains under boadicea ? and that he left nero his heir , and his two daughters , hoping thereby to secure his kingdom ? if he were arviragus , he was dead before the revolt of the iceni . and if marius were his son , how comes he never to be mention'd in the story afterwards ; no , not in that most remarkable battel between his mother and suetonius paulinus ? but hector boethius calls arviragus one of the iceni , as though his authority were to be mention'd against tacitus , who was the geffrey of scotland , so many and so improbable are his fictions . (y) baronius , after trying several ways to reconcile the tradition of king lucius with the roman story , concludes with that as the most probable , (z) that he was a king under the roman power in britain , such as prasutagus was . but he was onely king over the iceni , and not over all britain , and although among the britains there were many kings over particular cities ( as they then called the people under one government ) yet there was no one king over the whole island . but in cases of great difficulty they pitched upon one as supreme , as on cassibelan , upon the invasion of caesar : so that the old british government was neither popular as some pretend , nor under one monarchy ; but the people were govern'd by several petty monarchs , as appears by the unquestionable testimonies of (a) diodorus siculus , (b) strabo , and (c) pomponius mela ; fert populos & reges populorum , saith mela ; olim regibus parebant , saith (d) tacitus ; which prove both the antiquity and number of british monarchs . and what (e) dio saith of a democratical government among the britains is onely spoken of the maeatae and caledonii , in their great confusion , when all the reins of government were cast off , and the people did what they list , as tacitus describes them in his time , saying , that they were drawn off from their former obedience to their kings , by the heads of several factions among them . so that although in the most ancient times here was monarchical government , yet it was not extended over all britain , as the monkish tradition pretends concerning king lucius , and i know not how many predecessours of his , even from the coming of brutus to his days . but neither our religion , nor our government need such fictions to support them . supposing then that king lucius succeeded cogidunus , though not immediately , in the government of that part of britain committed to his care ; i see no inconvenience in allowing , that king lucius hearing of the christian doctrine , either by the old british christians , such as eluanus and medwinus are supposed to have been ; or by some of m. aurelius his souldiers coming hither , after the great deliverance of the roman army by the prayers of the christians ( which had then lately happen'd and occasion'd great discourse every where , the emperour himself , as (f) tertullian saith , giving the account of it in his own letters ) might upon this be very desirous to inform himself throughly about this religion , and there being then frequent intercourse between rome and britain , by reason of the colonies that were settled , and the governours and souldiers passing to and fro , he might send eluanus and medwinus to eleutherius to be fully instructed in this religion ; and either the same persons alone , or two others with them ( called faganus and duvianus commonly ) coming into britain , might have so great success as to baptize king lucius , and many others , and thereby inlarge the christian church here . the (g) old book of landaff gives a much more modest account of this whole matter than either geffrey of monmouth , or any of his followers . there we find onely that king lucius sent eluanus and medwinus to eleutherius the twelfth bishop of rome , to desire that he might be made a christian through his instruction ; upon which he gave god thanks , that such a heathen nation did so much desire christianity ; and then , by the advice of the presbyters of the city of rome , they first baptized these embassadours ; and , being well instructed , they ordained them , making eluanus a bishop and medwinus a teacher ; and so they returned to king lucius , who with the chief of the britains were baptized ; and then , according to the instructions of eleutherius , he settled the ecclesiastical order , caused bishops to be ordained , and the christian religion to be taught . there is nothing in all this account but what seems to have great probability in it . the same account is in capgrave , out of john of tinmouth , in the life of dubricius , and this seems to have been the original tradition of the british church : which geffrey of monmouth hath corrupted with his flamins and archiflamins ; and others afterwards made an epistle for eleutherius to king lucius , but could not avoid such marks in the way of writing as evidently discover the imposture ; and when the monks hands were once in , they knew not how to give over . for some of them carry faganus and diruvianus ( as some call him ) to glassenbury ; others make them consecrate the church at winchester , to which they say king lucius had a particular kindness , and gave all the lands and privileges which the flamins had , to the bishop and monks . ( a gift that would never make them the richer or the safer . ) others make king lucius to found st. peter's church at westmister , the church in dover castle , st. martin's by canterbury , st. peter's in cornhill , where the metropolitan church , they say , was placed by him , and theanus made the first bishop , who was succeeded by eluanus , who went on the embassey to eleutherius ; and , besides these , they make him to found and endow so many churches , with such unlikely circumstances , as hath made others question , whether there was ever such a person in the world as king lucius : that being the common effect of saying much more than is true , to make what is really true more doubtfull and suspicious . but there is one difficulty yet to be cleared ; for all this story , in its best circumstances , seems to imply , that there was no christian church here before . for , if there had been , what need he to have sent as far as rome to be instructed ? unless the bishop of rome were then known to be the head of the church , which were a sufficient reason for it . to this i answer , that if the contest lay be●ween these two things , whether it be more credible , that christianity was planted here before king lucius ; or , that king lucius was baptized by order from eleutherius ; i should very much prefer the former , because the authority of gildas , as to the british christianity , is to be relyed on before the later writers ; and gildas asserts the one ; and although he had as much reason as bede , or any after him ; he never takes the least notice of king lucius and eleutherius . and , if a negative argument will hold any where , it is where a person hath as much reason to know as any that follow him ; and as great occasion to discover what he knows ; both which will hold in the case of gildas compared with bede or later writers . it were worth while for us to know whence bede had his first information of this matter ; for he professes to follow other writers about the british affairs , and in many places he follows gildas exactly , but in this he passes by what gildas saith about the primitive christianity of britain , and instead thereof puts in this story of king lucius . (h) bale saith , that eluanus avalonius was a disciple to those who were the disciples of the apostles , and that he preached the gospel in britain with good success ; but king lucius , being persuaded by his druids , would not come to any resolution ; but to satisfie himself , lest he should be deceived by his countreymen , he sent eluanus and medwinus to eleutherius . and eluanus upon his return wrote a book de origine ecclesiae britannorum ; of the first beginning of the british church . and pits is sure to follow him where he hath no reason : but leland never mentions this book , nor the writings of medwinus belgius , and of king lucius himself , all relating to this matter : but (i) leland onely takes notice , that eluanus and medwinus were employ'd upon an embassey to eleutherius , that by his means he might become a christian , which , saith he , is very unreasonable to suppose , unless he were first informed what christianity was , which he thinks was preached to king lucius by them , being two of the old british christians . and there he relates how by chance he met with an old ms. of the british affairs joyn'd with geffrey of monmouth , wherein this story is told exactly as it is in the book of landaff : and no mention is made of any other persons sent back but those that went. and , as far as i can judge , bede follow'd this old british tradition , onely leaving out the names of the persons sent , and the establishment of the british churches after the baptism of king lucius . for bede saith as little as he well could that tended to the honour of the british churches . so that according to this , which seems the truest account of this embassey , eluanus and edwinus were british christians themselves , and therefore sent to eleutherius , having been probably the persons employ'd to convince king lucius ; but he knowing the great fame of rome , and it being told him , not onely that there were christians there , but a bishop in that city , the twelfth from the apostles , had a desire to understand how far the british christians and those of rome agreed ; and he might reasonably then presume , that the christian doctrine was there truly taught , at so little distance from the apostles , and in a place whither , as (k) irenaeus argues in this case , a resort was made from all places , because of its being the imperial city . these were reasonable considerations , which might move king lucius to send this embassy to rome , and not any opinion of st. peter's having appointed the head of the church there , of which there was no imagination then , nor a long time after in the british churches , as appears by the contest of the british bishops with augustine the monk ; of which in its due place . if any credit were to be given to king (l) arthur's diploma to the vniversity of cambridge , this matter would be fully clear'd ; for there it is expresly said , that king lucius was converted by the preaching of the doctours of cambridge , for which reason he gave large privileges to that university , which were confirmed by king arthur . and in the ms. annals of burton it is said , that anno domini . nine of the doctours and scholars of cambridge were baptized . i am not ignorant what objections have been made by learned antiquaries against both these passages , and how hard it is to reconcile them to the language and history of that time ; nor that this passage in the annals of burton was put into the ms. copy by another hand , as the learned (m) primate observed , by comparing the copy of them in the library of c. c. c. but on the other side , it is justly pleaded , that in the bull of honorius i. bearing date an. dom. . febr. there is mention made of the privileges granted to the vniversity of cambridge by pope eleutherius ; and that withall he takes notice of doctours and scholars there . and that this bull of honorius is allowed to be authentick in the bull of eugenius iv. upon the controversie about jurisdiction between the bishop of ely and the vniversity of cambridge , bearing date an. d. . cal. oct. which is a sufficient proof to all that rely on the pope's authority , that in the time of king lucius and eleutherius there might be a sufficient number of learned men in cambridge to have instructed king lucius in the christian faith ; and that it is not improbable , that eluanus and medwinus might be of that number , especially considering that camboritum , or , as many copies have it , camboricum , was a roman colony , and mention'd in the best copies among the cities of britain , and the roman colonies had their schools of learning , wherein the several professours of arts and sciences did instruct both the roman and british youth . of which i may have occasion to discourse afterwards . after this time , we meet with little concerning the british churches , till the persecution of dioclesian , in which they had a considerable share , for the time it lasted here : for although the names of no more are preserved than onely of st. alban , aaron and julius ; yet both (n) gildas and (o) bede say , that many more suffer'd martyrdom then in britain , as (p) baronius acknowledgeth . and although dioclesian being a prince of infinite ambition , as appear'd by his commanding himself to be worshipped as god , and therefore had so great an antipathy to christianity , that his whole reign might be called , as (q) m. velserus saith , one perpetual persecution , yet he had so much art , as to throw off the odium of it upon others ; to which purpose he first made choice of maximianus , a brutish and fierce man , who stuck at nothing for the shame or the cruelty of it , as he is set forth by eutropius and victor ; and therefore was a fit instrument , as occasion served , to execute dioclesian's malice against the christians ; which he did not fail to perform , as appear'd by the thebean legion which suffer'd in the first expedition against the bagaudae , for refusing to take an oath , to extirpate the christians as well as the rebels , as (r) sigonius and (s) velserus relate the story . but the great persecution under dioclesian , of which gildas and bede speak , did not certainly begin till anno domini . dioclesian and maximianus being one the eighth the other the seventh time consuls , as (t) lactantius hath evidently made to appear : but in the next year , upon the resignation of these two , galerius maximianus and constantius chlorus were declared emperours ; and it is generally said by the ecclesiastical writers , that constantius stopt the persecution in the provinces under his government . so that either the persecution in britain must be before the other , or it could continue but a little time . to solve this , (u) alford saith , there is no other way , but to make this persecution to have been in the third of dioclesian and the first of maximianus . at which time , (w) baronius saith , a very sharp persecution was begun against the christians at rome . which was about the time when maximianus began his expedition into gaul against the bagaudae , and in his passage over the alpes , the thebean legion suffer'd . the circumstances of which story are so agreeable in all respects , that i see no reason to call in question the truth of it , it being not onely preserved by eucherius , but by venantius fortunatus , helinandus , beda , vsuardus and ado. but maximianus made then no long stay in gaul , and for several years after , both dioclesian and he were so taken up in warlike expeditions , that they had no leisure for a sharp and long persecution . and i can however see no ground for any persecution in britain about that time by dioclesian or maximian . for when he came against the bagaudae , carausius was employ'd to secure the seas against the franks and the saxons ; but , understanding maximian's design to take him off , he watched his opportunity , and with a good fleet and considerable army comes for britain , and takes possession of the government here , and maximian had no fleet left to pursue him hither . this revolt of carausius happen'd within few years after dioclesian and maximian were joint emperours , viz. an. dom. . but alford saith , the old writer of saint alban 's life pitches upon anno dom. . for this persecution . and a ms. copy of beda which he had met with agrees with that time . but he urges farther , that after the rebellion of carausius , when constantius was made caesar , the provinces beyond the alpes were committed to him , and that was anno dom. . and if there were no persecution under constantius , this must be before he was caesar. but , for any thing alford saith , the persecution might have been under carausius , or allectus , before constantius came to the possession of britain . for carausius , as appears by (x) aur. victor and (y) eutropius , was let alone with the government of britain ; which , saith (z) orosius , he enjoy'd seven years , and after him allectus , three years more ; so that for several years after constantius his being caesar , he had no influence on the affairs of britain : at the end of those ten years , allectus being killed , and his army routed by asclepiodatus , constantius came over , as appears by (a) eumenius , in the very nick of time to preserve the city of london from being pillaged by the franks , and then he was received with wonderfull joy by the inhabitants , being delivered from the tyranny they underwent in the times of carausius and allectus ; and after his death medals were coin'd in london to testifie the city's gratitude to him ; whereon was the effigies of constantius of one side , and on the other a temple between two eagles , with this inscription , memoria felix ; and under the temple p. l. n. pecunia londin . notata , as some explain it . for by the eagles and inscription it appears that these coins were intended for the apotheosis of constantius ; and so joseph scaliger and camden understand them . (b) zosimus saith , that constantius , while he lived , had his chief residence in britain ; and if a persecution happen'd here , he must be accessory to it , which is contrary to what is constantly affirmed of constantius . for (c) eusebius saith , he never join'd with the other emperours in destroying churches . (d) sozomen and (e) cassiodore say , that he gave full liberty to the christians , and that their churches flourished under him ; and (f) optatus saith , that the donatists made their application to constantine , to appoint iudges out of gaul , and give this reason , because there was no persecution under his father's government . and accordingly the council of arles consisted of bishops chiefly out of gaul and britain . that which upon the whole matter appears most probable to me , is , that the persecution was begun while dioclesian and maximianus had the empire in their hands ; and although constantius and galerius had the titles of caesars ; yet the supreme government was in the others hands , as appears by what orosius saith of dioclesian's usage of galerius , upon his return from the persian war ; and by the inscriptions in spain ( if they be authentick ) produced by (g) baronius , (h) velserus and (i) gruterus . in one of which dioclesianus and maximianus are onely mention'd ; and this must be after the persecution , for there it is said , nomine christianorvm deleto . and in the other svperstitione christi vbiq ; deleta . and there dioclesian is onely named augustus , and galerius as adopted by him . baronius thinks such inscriptions were set up every where , but time hath onely preserved those in spain . but if they were set up in spain , under the government of constantius , it is an argument , that while dioclesian and maximianus held the empire , they did what they pleased in these matters : for although the name of caesar carried in it something of supreme authority , yet (k) aurelius victor , when he takes notice of the first beginning of the difference of the titles of augustus and caesar , he saith , though they were both titles of sovereignty , yet they who enjoy'd them did not differ less in their power than they did in their titles . and therefore (l) lactantius saith , when dioclesian called galerius by the name of caesar after his persian victory , he cryed out , quousque caesar ? how long should he continue caesar ? and the impatience of this made him force dioclesian to resign the empire , as lactantius , who was upon the place , assures us ; nay , when dioclesian offer'd him , that all four should be declared augusti , he refused for this reason , because he knew , while dioclesian continued in power , he should have onely the name . and lactantius farther saith , that the edict against the christians was sent to constantius without asking his consent ; and he confesses , constantius complied so far as to pull down their churches . but his kindness , when declared augustus , made them willing to forget the rest . so that the persecution was general till their resignation ; but upon constantius being declared augustus , it ceased in all these parts ; in which , (m) eusebius affirms , it did not last two years , although it continued ten years in the east . and within that time the persecution took away st. alban , aaron and julius , and other martyrs here , as gildas and bede relate , who give a more particular account of the sufferings of the first , not without some mixture of improbabilities or interpolations ; but , as to the rest , we have nothing but their names preserved and the places they belonged to . the first is said to have been a roman officer at the municipium of verulam , the first british town which had roman privileges ; and the other , citizens of caerleon , where there was a roman colony . constantius dying at york , his eldest son , constantine , was declared caesar by the army in britain . for although constantius did what in him lay to secure the succession to him , as (n) eusebius saith , yet that did not signifie much without the concurrence of the legions . and (o) lactantius saith , that he commended him to the souldiers , and so delivered the empire to him . this consent of the army is express'd by (p) eumenius , and by the emperour (q) julian ; and aurelius victor saith , all that were present promoted his being emperour ; but he was not declared caesar by galerius maximianus till afterwards , as baluzius hath clearly proved out of lactantius and others , who , when he saw he could not help it , sent him the purple robe . thus constantine , being firmly settled in the throne , took care in the first places of the tranquillity of these parts , where he was proclaimed emperour , and , as lactantius saith , the first thing he did was , to secure full liberty to the christians . and now , we may well suppose , all that gildas and bede say , to have been accomplished , viz. that the christians rebuilt their churches , destroy'd to the ground , and therein celebrated their holy sacraments , and kept solemn festivals in memory of so great a deliverance . and from this time we may date the flourishing condition of this church , which before must labour under great difficulties ; the governours of provinces before constantius , and the generality of the people , being set against the christians . but the first evidence we meet with of the settled condition of the british churches , is , the number of bishops which went from britain to the council at arles , anno domini . where we find three bishops subscribing to it , eborius , bishop of york ; restitutus , bishop of london ; and adelsius , de civitate colonia londinensium : so it is in (r) sirmondus his best copy . and although (s) mr. selden seems to question the antiquity of it , yet the other vouches it to be very good and ancient . but what then is the civitas colonia londinensium ? the learned (t) primate thinks it to be colchester ; that being called in antoninus colonia . (u) mr. selden takes it to be camalodunum , and so written camalodon , which the ignorant scribes made col. londinensium : (w) sir h. spelman likewise supposes it to be the old colony of camalodunum . but , i think , a far more probable sense may be given of it , if we consider the way of summoning bishops to councils at that time : for it is unreasonable to imagine that every roman colony or city sent a bishop : for then every council would have been as full as the arabick writers say the council of nice was ( of which mr. selden hath discoursed at large ) or at least as (x) cummianus and (y) ado thought this council of arles was , which they made to consist of bishops : an unreasonable number to be called together on such an occasion , as the giving way to the restless importunity of the donatists to have their cause heard over again . it is not to be presumed that constantine would summon so great a number to make up a court ( episcopale iudicium st. augustine often calls it ) wherein the main thing to be done was , to hear the parties and to give judgment ; and in the former judgment but bishops were summoned . it is said , (z) that st. augustine makes the number of bishops at arles to be . but i see no sufficient ground to understand those words of this particular council ; but of all the bishops which had condemned them in several councils , among whom he reckons the italian , spanish and gallick bishops , who met at arles . but when i compare the subscriptions to that council published out of the most ancient ms. with a passage in hilary , i am apt to believe , that excepting those that were very near about arles , there were no more than a bishop out of a province with one or two presbyters . so it is expresly in the (a) summons to chrestus bishop of syracuse in sicily , ( the onely one remaining , and which (b) baronius thinks was the same that was to the rest ) wherein he is required to come out of that province , and to bring two presbyters with him , as valesius shews against baronius and sirmondus the words are to be understood . and (c) hilary , speaking of the councils of his time , saith , that one or two bishops were sent for out of a province , and he instanceth in the council of ancyra , and the great council at ariminum : so here we meet with chrestus out of the province of sicily , quintasius out of the province of sardinia , and so in most of the rest , the distinct provinces are set down out of which they came : and at that time there were provinces of gaul and britain , and so many bishops appeared at arles , besides marinus the bishop of the place . but to supply the defect of some other provinces there were more out of that province wherein arles stood than out of any other . in britain there were then three provinces according to the ms. copy of sextus rufus saith mr. camden : therefore in all probability , since the other two bishops were out of the other two provinces , maxima caesariensis and britannia prima ; the third bishop was out of the third province of britannia secunda , wherein there were two noted colonies , the one called colonia divana in the coin of septimius geta , and civitas legionum in (d) beda , now chester ; the other , civitas legionis ad yscam , where was a colony of the . legion , which province is sometimes called britannica secunda . and therefore this bishop adelphius came ex civit. col. leg. . which the ignorant transcribers might easily turn to ex civit. col. londin . the onely objection is that which is suggested by the learned (e) primate of armagh , viz. that there were four provinces of britain at that time , and that flavia caesariensis was one of them ; having its name from constantine , who assumed the name of flavius ; but goltzius his copy deserves not to be so much preferr'd before (f) camden's ; and the name of flavia caesariensis might either be taken from flavius valentinianus , as (g) berterius thinks , or from fl. theodosius , before whose time camden saith we never met with britannia flavia. there being then but three bishops present at the council of arles , is so far from being an argument that there were no more in britain , that it is rather an argument to the contrary ; since it was the custome to send but one or two out of a province where they were most numerous . and i see no reason to question a succession of bishops here from the first founding of a christian church . to prove this , i shall not rely on the testimony of the anonymous (h) greek authour of the martyrdoms of peter and paul , who saith , saint peter here ordained bishops , priests and deacons ; but upon the reason of the thing , there being no other church in the christian world which derived from the apostles , which had not a succession of bishops from them too ; and we cannot trace the history of other churches farther than we can do that of their bishops . as for instance . the first conversion of the churches of africa is much in the dark , but as soon as we reade any thing considerable of them , we meet with a council of bishops , viz. of (i) agrippinus and his brethren , out of the provinces of africa , numidia and mauritania , and he was not the immediate predecessour of st. cyprian , who suffer'd in the persecution of valerian , anno dom. . and (k) tertullian puts the proof of apostolical churches upon the succession of bishops from the apostles : which were a sensless way of proceeding , unless it were taken for granted , that whereever the apostles planted churches , they appointed bishops to take care of them . although therefore , by the loss of records of the british churches , we cannot draw down the succession of bishops from the apostles time ( for that of the bishops of london by jocelin of furnes is not worth mentioning ) yet we have great reason to presume such a succession ; when upon the first summoning a council by constantine three british bishops appear'd ; one out of every province ; as they did in other parts . but some pretend to give a more punctual and exact account of the settling of our church government here , viz. that there were twenty eight cities among the old britains , that in these there were twenty five flamins and three archiflamins , in whose places , upon the conversion of the nation by king lucius , there was the like number of bishops and archbishops here appointed ; and for this , besides the rabble of our monkish historians , who swallow geffrey of monmouth whole without chewing ; i find two of my predecessours , men considerable in their times , produced to the same purpose , viz. (l) radulphus de diceto , and rad. baldock . others say , (m) that these twenty eight cities were not all furnished with bishops in king lucius his time , but that the honour of it belongs to him because he began it : but this is making a new story , and in effect denying the truth of the old tradition . however i deny not , but that it is as certain that king lucius settled bishops here , as that he was converted by eluanus and medwinus ; for the same authours deliver both . but how far his power extended , and consequently how many cities had episcopal government then settled in them , is now impossible to be known . as to the twenty eight cities among the britains , the tradition doth not depend upon the credit of geffrey or nennius ; for bede and before him gildas say the same thing , viz. that there were so many cities among the britains , while the romans had power here , which i see no cause to doubt but they were cities made by the romans , or by the britains in imitation of them , as i shall prove in another discourse . but that which follows from hence is , viz. that the government here settled being in roman cities , the correspondence must not be to the british druids , but to the roman colonies . that there was some subordination among the druids is unquestionable . for caesar affirms , that there was a prince of the druids , and the last age hath discovered a famous urn of one chyndonax , chief of the druids ; concerning which whole (n) books have been written , and several discourses published , without any great satisfaction to me ; but it is not to any purpose to tell why , since i yield the thing it self . and it is improbable there should be a prince of the druids , without an intermediate subordination , and the druids being so far dispersed , it was a reasonable thing , that the superiour druids should have their particular limits assigned them , that they might the better understand and give account of those under them , and not interfere or intrench one upon another . as far then as we suppose them to be reasonable and prudent , these things may justly be supposed concerning them , so that setting aside the name of flamins and archiflamins , for which there is no foundation at all ( as to either among the druids , and not for the latter word among the romans ) yet the thing itself hath no such absurdity or improbability in it . but the cities here being roman , as i suppose , the government must be suitable to that of roman colonies , and they that know any thing of the nature and constitution of them , do know that they exactly follow'd the pattern of the city of rome , having a senate , consuls , praetors , censors , aediles , quaestors , &c. and , besides the rest , they had their several flamins and pontifices too . but there were many of these flamins in each city or colony ; thence (o) latinus pacatus , in his panegyrick to theodosius , mentions , reverendos municipali purpurâ flamines , insignes apicibus sacerdotes , speaking of a roman colony ; but there can be no resemblance between a multitude of flamins in a city , and one bishop over a diocese . the flamins were the priests of some peculiar deity , from whom they took their denomination , as may be at large seen in gruter's book of roman inscriptions . but among them there was a certain order of place and dignity ; for we reade of a primus flamen in (p) gruter . but (q) jac. gutherius hath an observation which will tend to clear this matter . for among the roman inscriptions , we meet with one extraordinary of this kind , viz. (r) flamini divorum omnium ; now saith he , the name flamen was common to all the priests in the roman cities ; but the flamen divorum omnium was the chief priest among them . and so there is no such mighty absurdity as hath been imagined in supposing these flamins to be put down , and the christian bishops to succeed in their places ; especially if we could have made out that there were flamines provinciarum , as at first appearance seem'd very probable in the roman inscriptions . and (s) sertorius vrsatus seems to make no doubt concerning it in this inscription , divo avgvsto albinvs . alb. f. flamen divae . avg. provinciae lvsitan . but it is an easie mistake for a flamen d. aug. one of augustus his flamins , in that province . of which sort there are many examples . but there are other (t) inscriptions wherein we reade of flaminica provinciae lvsitaniae but all that sertorius vrsatus infers from hence is , that there were temples dedicated to municipia and to provinces , and these temples had their flamines and flaminicae . but this doth not prove , that the flamins had any jurisdiction over a province ; which had been indeed to the purpose . among the romans , although there were none called ar●hiflamines , yet there were flamines majores & minores , as appears by festus and others . the lesser are thought by some to be called veflamines in the inscriptions both of (u) gruter and (w) reinesius . festus saith , the majores flamines were the patricians ; the minores , the plebeians : but the late publisher of festus saith , that the majores flamines were the dialis , martialis and quirinalis ; the rest of the fifteen who were added afterwards , were the minores ; the flamen martialis and quirinalis were of the college of pontifices , as appears by (x) cicero : and the pontifices themselves were divided likewise into majores and minores , as appears both by festus and the inscriptions : these lesser were at first assessours in the college or court of pontifices ; but afterwards became onely officers to them ; and among these there was a pontifex maximus too : but , as festus saith , he was onely the first in the college : but all this relates onely to the city . that which comes nearer to our business is the consideration of the sacerdotes provinciarum , as they are called in the (y) theodosian code . (z) jac. gothofredus saith , the difference between the flamins and these was ; that the flamins belong'd to particular cities ; but these had whole provinces under their care ; and so , in the law , the honor flaminii was distinct from the honor secerdotii ; this latter is called archierosyne in the same code ; and the title and office still continued in the time of theodosius m. and it is there described to be a care that divine offices were performed in their temples ; and such as these were (a) sopelianus in asia , and (b) chrysantius in lydia , and (c) arsacius in galatia , to whom an epistle of julian is still extant , giving him charge to look after his office with great care , and to warn and punish the inferiour priests if they neglected their duty . so that we have now found out what did bear a great correspondence among the romans to our bishops and archbishops . but it still remains a question , whether they did not rather borrow this from the christians , than the christians from them ? for julian in that epistle makes it his business to persuade arsacius to take all things commendable from the christians ; and no doubt this was thought so by his predecessours , who first set up this sacerdotal government of provinces among them . and , if i mistake not , it began much later than the first settlement of episcopacy in the british churches ; for (d) eusebius saith , that maximinus appointed not onely priests in the cities , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , chief-priests in the provinces , where valesius mistakes his meaning ; for he thinks all the innovation of maximinus was the appointing them himself , whereas they were wont to be chosen by the decuriones in the cities : but he speaks of it as a new thing of maximinus , to appoint such an order and office among the priests which had not been known before : and that which puts this matter out of doubt is , that (e) lactantius , in his excellent piece lately published out of ms. by baluzius , saith expresly of maximinus , novo more sacerdotes maximos per singulas civitates singulos ex primoribus fecit , i.e. that by a new custome he appointed chief priests in the several cities , of the greatest persons in them , who were not onely to doe the office of priests themselves ; but to look after the inferiour priests , and by their means to hinder the christians from their worship , and to bring them to punishment : but , as though this were not enough , he appointed other priests over the provinces , in a higher degree above the rest . although then valesius asserted that such were elder than maximinus , yet lactantius , whose authority is far greater , hath determined the contrary . i am not ignorant that , long before maximinus his time , (f) tertullian mentions the praesides sacerdotales , but those do not relate to this matter , but to the spectacula , as appears by the place . (g) some insist on the sacerdotes provinciales in (h) tertullian ; but rigaltius shews there ought to be a comma between them , it being very unlikely the provincial priests should have golden crowns when those at rome had not . and in a (i) canon of the african code we find the sacerdotes provinciae , but that council was long after , anno dom. . and these seem to be no other than advocates , who were to appear for the causes which concerned the temples and sacrifices throughout the province . according to which method , the african bishops there desire , that the churches might have advocates too , with the same privileges : which request was granted by (k) honorius ; and was the first introduction of lawyers into the service of the church , who were called defensores ecclesiarum , and were afterwards judges in ecclesiastical causes . but that which comes nearer to this matter is , the authority of the asiarchae , who in some coins , mentioned by (l) spanhemius , are said to be priests over thirteen cities ; and this in the law is called (m) sacerdotium asiae : but these seem to have been no other than those who took care of the publick solemnities in the common assembly in asia , when the people met out of these cities to perform them either at ephesus or smyrna , or any other of the cities within this combination , as is observed by many (n) learned men. and although there were but one chief at a time , yet the office seem'd to have passed by turns through the several cities ; and he in whose city the solemnities were to be kept , was the president for that time , and had the title of asiarcha . but (o) alb. rubenius shews from aristides and dio , that the asiarchae had a superintendency over the temples and the priests within the community of the asian cities ; but these were onely , he saith , for the temples erected to the caesars out of the common stock ; the temple of diana at ephesus belonging to the ionian community , and not to that of asia . herodes atticus is called in the inscription at (p) athens , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , caesar 's high-priest . but that seems to be onely a title , without power . but it appears by the (q) inscription at thyatira , that the asiarcha was called the high-priest of asia , and had power to place priests in the cities under his care. but still this falls short of such chief-priests in the provinces as maximinus appointed . and thus i have endeavour'd to clear the antiquity and original institution of episcopacy here , by shewing that it was not taken up , according to the monkish tradition , from the heathen flamins and archiflamins ; but came down by succession from the first planting of apostolical churches . for although we cannot deduce a lineal succession of bishops , as they could in other churches , where writings were preserved , yet assoon as through the churches peace they came to have intercourse with foreign churches ( as in the council of arles ) they appeared with a proportionable number of bishops with those of other provinces ; and their succession was not in the least disputed among them , they subscribing to the sentence and canons as others did . and what canons did then pass , did no doubt as much concern the british churches to observe , as any other churches whose bishops were there present . which canons were passed by their own authority ; for they never sent to the bishop of rome to confirm , but to publish them , as appears by the synodical epistle which they sent to him ; their words are , quae decrevimus communi concilio , charitati tuae significamus , ut omnes sciant quid in futurum obser●are debeant . (r) baronius had good luck to find out the necessity of the pope's confirmation here ; whereas they plainly tell him , they had already decreed them by common consent , and sent them to him to divulge them , i. e. as (s) petrus de marca saith , as the emperours sent their edicts to their praefecti praetorio . was that to confirm them ? it is true , they say , the pope had a larger diocese ; but if these words had implied so much as a patriarchal power over the bishops there assembled , how could they assume to themselves this power to make canons ; and onely to signifie to him what they had done , and to desire him to communicate these canons to others ? would such a message from a council have been born , since the papal supremacy hath been owned ? nay , how fancily would it have looked in any council within the patriarchats of the east to have done so ? but these bishops of arles knew no other style then , but charitati tuae ; and they signifie to the bishop of rome what they had already decreed , but not what they had prepared for him to confirm . and they are so far from owning his authority in calling them together , that they tell him , they were assembled at the emperour's command , and were so far from expecting directions from him , that they tell him they had a divine authority present with them , and a certain tradition and rule of faith ; they wished indeed , he had been present with them , and to have judged together with them . was this to make him sole iudge ? or could they believe him at the same time to be their supreme head ? they could have been glad of the company of their brother of rome , as they familiarly call him ; but since his occasions would not permit his absence from home , they acquaint him what they had done , and so send him an abstract of their canons , as may be seen at large both in sirmondus and baronius . by this we see what opinion the british bishops and their brethren had of the pope's supremacy . but now to their canons ; those may be reduced to three heads ; either to the keeping of easter ; or to the discipline of the clergy ; or to lay communion . ( . ) as to easter , that council decreed , can. . that it should be observed on the same day and time throughout the world. and that the bishop of rome should give notice of the day , according to custome . but this latter part was repealed , as binius confesses , by the council of nice , which referr'd this matter to the bishop of alexandria . ( . ) as to the clergy , there were canons which related to bishops , priests and deacons . ( . ) to bishops , and those were four : ( . ) that no bishop should trample upon another , can. . which albaspineus well interprets of invading another's diocese . ( . ) as to travelling bishops , that they should be allow'd to perform divine offices in the city they came unto , can. . ( . ) that no bishop should consecrate another alone , but he ought to take seven with him , or at least three , can. . which shews the number of bishops then in the western provinces and so in britain at that time . the nicene canon , c. . takes notice onely of three bishops as necessary to be present , because many eastern provinces had not seven ; as christianus lupus observes on that canon . in an african council in cresconius we find , that because two had presumed to consecrate a bishop , they desire that twelve may be present ; but aurelius , bishop of carthage , refused it for this reason , because in the province of tripolis there were but five bishops . therefore when the council of arles appoints seven , it doth suppose these provinces to have a greater number of bishops . ( . ) that if any were proved to have been traditores in the time of persecution , i. e. to have given up the sacred books or vessels , or to have betrayed their brethren , and this proved by authentick acts ; then they were to be deposed . however their ordinations are declared to be valid , can. . ( . ) as to inferiour clergy ; ( . ) excommunication is denounced against those that put out money to use , can. . ( . ) that they were not to forsake the churches where they were ordained , can. . and deprivation is threatned on that account , can. . ( . ) the deacons are forbidden to celebrate the lord's supper , there called offering , can. . ( . ) as to lay communion : ( . ) those that refuse to continue in their employment as souldiers , now the persecution was over , were to be suspended communion , can. . the words are , de his qui arma projiciunt in pace . of which some do hardly make tolerable sense . binius saith it must be read in bello . but nothing can be more contrary to peace than war ; how then should such a mistake happen ? albaspineus saith , it is against those who refuse to be souldiers in time of peace : baronius saith , it is against them that apostatize in time of peace ; but if a metaphorical sense will be allow'd , that which seems most probable is , that many christians , now the persecution was over , neglected that care of themselves , and that strictness of discipline which they used before ; and therefore such are here threatned , if not to be thrown out , yet to be debarr'd communion till they had recover'd themselves . and much to this purpose josephus aegyptius and joh. antiochenus do understand the . can. of the council of nice . but if a metaphorical sense be thought too hard ; then , i suppose , the meaning is , against those who renounced being souldiers , as much now in time of the churches peace , as under persecution , when they could not be souldiers without committing idolatry , as appear'd in the persecution of licinius and others . constantine , as (t) eusebius saith , gave them all leave to forsake their employment that would . but the council of arles might well apprehend , that if all christians renounced being souldiers , they must still have an army of heathens , whatever the emperours were ; and therefore they had reason to make such a canon as this , since the christians ever thought it lawfull to serve in the wars ; provided no idolatrous acts were imposed , which was frequently done on purpose by the persecutours , as maximianus , licinius , julian , &c. and this i think the true meaning of this difficult canon . ( . ) for those who drove the chariots in races , and acted on theatres , as long as they continued so to doe ; there being so many occasions of idolatry in both of them , they were to be cast out of communion , can. , . ( . ) that those who were christians and made governours of remote places should carry with them the communicatory letters of their own bishop , and not be debarr'd communion , unless they acted against the discipline of the church . this i take to be the meaning of can. . ( . ) that those who were received into the church in their weakness should have imposition of hands afterwards , can. . ( . ) that those who brought testimonials from confessours should be bound to take communicatory letters from their bishop , can. . ( . ) that those who found their wives in adultery , should be advised not to marry again while they did live , can. . ( . ) that those young women who did marry infidels should for a time be suspended communion , can. . ( . ) that those who falsly accused their brethren should not be admitted to communion as long as they lived , can. . ( . ) that none who were excommunicated in one place should be absolved in another , can. . ( . ) that no apostate should be admitted to communion in sickness ; but they ought to wait till they recover'd and shew'd amendment , can. . ( . ) that those who were baptized in the faith of the holy trinity should not be rebaptized , can. . and this was the canon which saint augustine on all occasions pressed upon the donatists , as sirmondus and launoy think ; and therefore they suppose this council to be called so often a plenary and vniversal council , not from the number of bishops present , but from the provinces out of which they came ; and so it was the first general council of the western church . chap. iii of the succession of the british churches from the council of nice to the council of ariminum . great probabilities that the british bishops were present in the council of nice . the testimonies of constantine's being born in britain clear'd . the particular canons of the council of nice relating to the government of churches explained . how far the right of election was devolved to the bishops . of the authority of provincial synods there settled . particular exceptions as to the bishops of alexandria , rome and antioch from ancient custome . they had then a patriarchal power within certain bounds . no metropolitans under the jurisdiction of the bishops of rome and alexandria . the just rights of the british churches clear'd . no evidence that they were under the roman patriarchate . the cyprian privilege vindicated from all late exceptions . the patriarchal rights examin'd ; and from them the pope's patriarchal power over the western churches at large disputed and overthrown . pope leo's arguments against the patriarch of constantinople held for the western churches against him . the british bishops present in the council of sardica . what authority granted by them to the bishop of rome , and how far it extends . having deduced the succession of the british churches down to the appearance of the british bishops at the first council of arles , i now come to the famous council of nice ; and although the subscriptions still remaining which are very imperfect and confused in the best copies , do not discover any of the british bishops to have been there present , yet there are many probabilities to induce us to believe that they were . for ( . ) constantine declares , that his design was , to have as full an appearance of bishops there from all parts as he could well get together . to that end he sent forth an universal summons for the bishops to come out of all provinces , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the word used by (a) eusebius . and presently after he saith constantine's edict was divulged 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in all provinces of the empire . how can this be , if there were no summons in the provinces of gaul and britain ? and to prevent all objections , as to difficulty and charges of passage , eusebius adds , that he had given order to have the publick carriages ready , and all expences to be defrayed for them . to this purpose tractoriae were to be given them by the emperour's order , which secured their passage and provision in all places ; the form of which is exstant in (b) baronius . and the classis britannica lying near to britain to secure these coasts from the franks and saxons , who were then troublesome , ( and over which carausius so lately was appointed admiral to clear these seas ) the bishops here could not want conveniency to transport them . ( . ) constantine expressed great satisfaction in the numbers that did appear from all parts . so that there is no reason to question , that they did answer his expectation . for in his epistle to the church of alexandria , (c) he saith , he had brought together a great number of bishops ; but more fully in his epistle to the churches ; that to the settlement of the christian faith it was then necessary , that all the bishops should meet together , or at least the greatest part : therefore he had assembled as many as he could . but when it appears by the council of arles , what numbers of bishops there were in these western provinces , how could constantine use such expressions as these , if they were not summoned to appear ? and (d) eusebius saith , those that were summon'd did come according to appointment with great readiness , not onely for the sake of the council , but of the emperour ; and he after saith , that the most eminent bishops of all churches , as well those of europe as asia and africa did come to nice . did not eusebius know of the churches of britain ? yes , most certainly , for he mentions their early conversion to christianity , as i have already shew'd ; and in that very book of the life of constantine , he mentions the churches of britain , as well as those of gaul and spain : and there constantine insists upon the consent of the western and northern churches about easter , as well as the southern and some of the eastern . now if their consent were so considerable as to add weight in this matter , it is not to be supposed they should be left out , when he designed an oecumenical council , as far as it was in his power to make it so , which certainly extended to all the provinces within the empire . ( . ) it is not probable the churches of britain should be left out , considering constantine's relation to britain . for he was not onely proclaimed emperour here on the death of his father ; but , if the panegyrist who lived in that time may be believed , he was born here . for , comparing (e) constantius and him together , he saith , that his father deliver'd britain from slavery , tu etiam nobiles illic oriendo fecisti : the question now is , whether these words relate to his birth , or to his being proclaimed caesar here ? livineius is for the latter , after (f) lipsius ; but i see no reason to decline the most natural and proper sense , viz. that he brought a great honour to britain by being born in it . (g) eumenius , in another panegyrick , applauds the happiness of britain , that had the first sight of constantine caesar. this is likewise capable of both senses ; but he immediately falls into a high commendation of britain , for its temper , fertility , riches and length of days . if this were constantine's own countrey , this was done like an oratour ; if not , to what purpose is all this ? and then he parallels britain with egypt , where mercury was born ; which shews that he spake of the place of nativity . besides , the former panegyrist made his oration to maximianus and constantine together , upon his marriage of theodora his daughter ; but it is not so probable that he would to him so much own constantine's being made caesar in britain ; for that was not according to the rules of government , in the court of maximianus and dioclesian ; for as galerius told dioclesian when he would have had four augusti ; no , saith he , that is against your own maxim , which is to have onely two augusti , and for them to name two caesars . therefore it is not likely , that the oratour should , to maximianus his face , own him to be made caesar , without the consent of those who were then augusti : but if he speaks of his being made caesar by galerius , it is very doubtfull whether he were then in britain . for (h) lactantius saith , he took time to consider about it , and was very hardly brought to it : but (f) nazarius , and (k) praxagoras , both say , that constantine went into gaul soon after his father's death ; and therefore gaul first saw him caesar , according to the constitution of the empire at that time . so that this one testimony of the panegyrist weighs more with me than ten cedrenus's or nicephorus's who say he was born in the east . but i produce this onely as an argument of the improbability , that the british churches should be omitted by constantine in the summons to his oecumenical council ; or , that they being summon'd should neglect to go . ( . ) they were certainly summon'd , and did go to the councils of sardica and ariminum after , and to that of arles before , and why should we believe them left out in that of nice ? this argument alone prevailed with mr. (l) selden to believe them present at the council of nice . and we are now forced to make use of the best probabilities , since athanasius his (m) synodicon hath been so long lost , wherein all their names were set down who were then present ; and that catalogue of them , if it were distinct , which (n) epiphanius had seen . there being then so much reason to believe the british bishops present in the council of nice , we have the more cause to look into the constitution of the ecclesiastical government there settled , that so we may better understand the just rights and privileges of the british churches . after the points of faith and the time of easter were determined ; the bishops there assembled made twenty canons for the government and discipline of the church , in which they partly re-inforced the canons of the council of arles , and partly added new . those that were re-inforced were , ( . ) against clergy-mens taking the customary vsury then allow'd , can. . ( . ) against their removing from their own diocese , can. . which is here extended to bishops ; and such removal is declared null . ( . ) against deacons giving the eucharist to presbyters , and in the presence of bishops , can. . ( . ) as to lay communion ; the canon against re-baptizing is re-inforced by can. . wherein those onely who renounced the trinity are required to be re-baptized , and the canon against being excommunicated in one church , and received into communion in another , can. . whether they be of the laity of clergy . for the new canons about lay communion , they chiefly concerned the lapsed in times of persecution . as ( . ) if they were onely catechumens , that for three years they should remain in the lowest form , not being admitted to join in any prayers of the church , but onely to hear the lessons read , and the instructions that were there given , can. . ( . ) for those that were baptized , and fell voluntarily in the late persecution of licinius , they were for three years to remain among those who were admitted onely to hear , for seven years to continue in the state of penitents , and for two years to join onely with the people in prayers , without being admitted to the eucharist , can. . ( . ) for those souldiers who ( in that persecution when licinius made it necessary for them to sacrifice to heathen gods if they would continue in their places ) first renounced their employments , and after by bribery or other means got into them again , for three years they were to be without joining in the prayers of the church , and for ten years to remain in the state of penitents ; but so as to leave it to the bishop's discretion to judge of the sincerity of their repentance , and accordingly to remit some part of the discipline , can. . ( . ) if persons happen'd to be in danger of death before they had passed through all the methods of the churches discipline , they were not to be denyed the eucharist ; but if they recover , they were to be reduced to the state of penitents , can. . but there was one canon added of another nature , which concerned vniformity , and that is the last of the genuine canons . it had been an ancient custome in the christian church to forbear kneeling in the publick devotion on the lord's days , and between easter and whitsontide , but there were some who refused to observe it ; and therefore this canon was made to bring all to an vniformity in that practice , can. . but there are other canons which relate more especially to ecclesiastical persons , and those either concern the discipline of the clergy , or the government of the church . ( . ) for the discipline of the clergy , they are these . ( . ) none who had voluntarily castrated themselves were to be admitted into orders , can. . for it seems origen's fact , however condemned by some , was as much admired by others , and (o) christianus lupus thinks the sect of the valesii , who castrated all , came from him ; but i do not find that origen did propagate any sect of this kind ; and epiphanius makes one valens the authour of it ; however this great council thought fit to exclude all such from any capacity of church employments ; but it is generally supposed , and not without reason , that the fact of leontius , a presbyter of antioch , (p) castrating himself because of his suspicious conversation with eustolia , gave the particular occasion to the making this canon . ( . ) none who were lately catechumens , were to be consecrated bishops or ordained presbyters , can. . for however it had happen'd well in some extraordinary cases , as of st. cyprian before , and others after this council , as st. ambrose , nectarius , &c. yet there was great reason to make a standing rule against it . ( . ) none of the clergy were to have any women to live in the house with them , except very near relations , as mother , or sister , &c. can. . for some , pretending greater sanctity , and therefore declining marriage , yet affected the familiar conversation of women , who made the same pretence . for (q) budaeus hath well observed that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a companion of celibacy ; so that when two persons were resolved to continue unmarried and agreed to live together , one of these was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the other . and (r) tertullian , writing against second marriages , seems to advise this practice , habe aliquam vxorem spiritualem ; adsume de viduis ecclesiae , &c. and it soon grew into a custome in africa , as appears by (s) st. cyprian who writes vehemently against it , and shews the danger and scandal of it . and that this conversation was under a pretence of sanctity appears by (t) st. jerom's words , speaking of such persons , sub nominibus pietatis quaerentium suspecta consortia ; and again , sub nomine religionis & umbra continentiae . but elsewhere he calls it pestis agapetarum , for it spread like the plague , and was restrained with great difficulty ; and at last laws were added to canons , these being found ineffectual . ( . ) if any persons were admitted loosely and without due examination into orders , or upon confession of lawfull impediments had hands notwithstanding laid upon them , such ordinations were not to be allowed as canonical , can. . which is more fully expressed in the next canon as to one case , viz. that if any lapsed persons were ordained , whether the ordainers did it ignorantly or knowingly they were to be deprived , can. . ( . ) if any among the novatians returned to the church , and subscribed their consent to the doctrine and practice of it , their ordination seems to be allowed . justellus , and some others , think a new imposition of hands was required by this canon ; if any of the novatian clergy were admitted into the church . and so dionysius exiguus and the old latin interpreter do render it . but balsamon , zonaras and others understand it so , as that the former imposition of hands , whereby they were admitted into the clergy were hereby allow'd . if the words of the canon seem to be ambiguous , and their sense to be taken from the practice of the nicene fathers in a parallel case , then they are rather to be understood of a new imposition of hands . for in the case of the meletians who were ordained in schism too , they determined in their synodical epistle that they should be received 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , with a more sacred imposition of hands ; but it is not agreed whether this implies a reordination or not . (u) valesius thinks it doth , but others take it onely for a simple benediction , or the laying on of hands upon reconciliation to the church . and (w) godfrey hermant hath at large proved reordination in this case to have been against the sense of the church ; wherein he hath the advantage of valesius : as is evident to any one that reflects on the occasion of the luciferian schism ; which began upon the council of alexandria's allowing the ordination of the arian bishops . and it would be very strange if schism were more destructive to orders than plain heresie . but the novatian bishop was to have no jurisdiction where there was one of the catholick church ; can. . among the canons which relate to the settlement and polity of the church , these three are very material . ( . ) about election and consecration of bishops . ( . ) about provincial synods . ( . ) about the bounds of jurisdiction . for the seventh canon is but a complement to the bishop of jerusalem , giving him the honour of a metropolitane without the jurisdiction . ( . ) about election and consecration of bishops . the canon is , that a bishop ought chiefly to be constituted by all the bishops in the province ; but if this be too difficult , either through urgent occasions , or the length of the way , yet three must be present for that purpose , and have the consent of the absent under their hands , and so to make the consecration . but the confirmation of all things done in the province must be reserved to the metropolitane , can. . by this canon the government of the church came now to be settled under constantine , and with his approbation . and here we find , that every province had a number of bishops within it self , who were to take care of the ecclesiastical government of it , but so as the consent of the metropolitane were obtained : so that the rights of metropolitans , as to the chief ecclesiastical government of every province , are hereby secured ; for the last clause doth not merely refer to the consecration of bishops ; but takes in that , with other ecclesiastical affairs of the province . the onely difficulty lies in the first clause , what is meant by the bishops of the province , constituting a new bishop ; whether the right of election is hereby devolved to them , or whether it be onely the right of consecration upon the election of the people ? which is therefore here fit to be enquired into , because the ancient practice of the british churches may from hence be gathered ; which we may justly presume was agreeable to the nicene canon . and because the signification of the greek word is ambiguous , we shall first see , what sense the greek writers do put upon it . balsamon interprets 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is chusing by suffrage ; and he in plain terms saith , by this canon , the right of election was taken from the people , and given to the bishops of the province . and it is not balsamon alone , as some imagine , that was of that opinion , but zonaras , aristenus , matthaeus blastares , as any one may find . but we are told , if they are all of that mind , they are greatly mistaken , because this council , in their synodical epistle to those of alexandria and egypt , declare their iudgment , (x) that if any bishops decease , others reconciled to the church may be admitted in their room , if they be worthy , and the people do chuse them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . one would think by this , that the council of nice had put this matter wholly into the peoples hands , but if we look into that synodical epistle , we shall find it much otherwise . for the case was this . the council declares their tenderness towards those that had been made bishops and priests in the meletian schism , allowing their orders upon due submission , but not to exercise any jurisdiction to the prejudice of those in possession ; but if any bishops died , those meletian bishops might succeed , but with these three provisoes . ( . ) that they be judged worthy ; by whom ? by the people ? no certainly ; for then there had been no need of the following clause , but this judgment belonged to the bishops of the province , according to this canon . ( . ) if the people chuse them ? what people ? the meletian party ? no ; they are excluded , because of their being in schism , from having any thing to doe in the choice , although they were admitted to communion . for they are forbidden before 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to put up the names of the persons to be chosen , or to hold up their hands ; and so all right of suffrage was taken from them on the account of their schism ; so that what right of choice was in the people , it was onely in the sound and untainted party , and , after all , it was no more but a nomination by the people ; for the true right of election was still in the bishops . for ( . ) all this signified nothing without the consent of the bishop of alexandria , which immediately follows the other . and is it a fair thing to mention that clause onely in the middle , and to leave out the two other , which reduce it to a bare nomination , and the meletian party excluded too ? would those who contend among us for popular elections like them upon these terms ? it is one thing for the people to propose or nominate persons to be chosen ; and another for them to have the right of election : and it is one thing for a person chosen to have the consent of the people , and another for them to have the power to reject him , because he doth not please them : and again , it is one thing for the people to be allowed to enjoy some privileges till the inconveniences of them have made them be taken away by just laws : and another for them to challenge such a right as inherent in themselves , and without which there lies no obligation on them to submit . if these things were better understood , it would allay some mens heats about these matters ; for granting that in the time of the council of nice , the people had the liberty of proposing names , or objecting against the persons to be chosen ; and although their consent were generally desired , yet all this doth not put the right of election in them ; for all that they could doe signified nothing without the consent of the bishops and metropolitane ; and none are properly said to chuse but those upon whose judgment the determination depends , the rest do but propose and offer persons to be chosen . so that the utmost the people could have by this canon was a right of nomination ; which upon seditions and tumults was justly alter'd : and there can be no plea for resuming it , unless it be proved to be a divine and unalterable right , which can never be done , nor is it so much as pretended by those who seem to court the peoples favour , by pleading for popular elections at this day from the precedents of former times . but i will not deny the people then had a farther right of exception against the persons chosen , but therein they were considered as witnesses , and not as judges : if their exceptions were just and well proved , the bishops as judges were to proceed canonically against them , and then they went to a new nomination , but still the judgment rested in the provincial synod . so in the canon in the council of antioch it is provided , that although all the people chuse one actually a bishop , yet if he takes possession of his see without a perfect provincial synod , the metropolitane being present , he is to be cast out . this canon doth more fully explain the fourth canon of the council of nice ; for here the case is put of the peoples choice , which is there onely implied : and here it is put concerning one actually a bishop , and so needing no new consecration , but being out of employment in his own see , by some extraordinary accident , is chosen into another by consent of the people . now if the people had there the power of election , what hindred this bishop , from being fully possessed of his bishoprick ? and yet this canon determines , that such a one was to be cast out , if he did not come in , by the full consent of the metropolitane and a provincial synod ; and to shew the force of this canon , by virtue of it , bassianus was rejected from being bishop of ephesus , by the general (y) council of chalcedon , where bishops are said to have been present . the case was this , bassianus was consecrated bishop of euaza , by memnon bishop of ephesus , but it was against his will , and he never went thither . basilius , who succeeded memnon , sends another bishop to that city in a provincial synod , but leaves bassianus the dignity of a bishop ; basilius being dead , bassianus is chosen by the people of ephesus , and enthronized by olympius without a provincial synod . but after four years , stephanus is put in his room , because he came not in canonically . the case was heard at large by the council of chalcedon , and this canon of antioch was alledged against him , and so he was thrown out by the council . from whence i infer ; ( . ) that the choice of the people at that time was not allowed , but the main force of election lay in the provincial synod . and so maximus bishop of antioch , julianus coensis , diogenes cyzicensis declared that it belonged to the bishops of the province to appoint a new bishop , as being most competent judges , and this was the way to prevent disorder in the city . ( . ) that the bishops appointing was not mere ordaining or consecrating , as some say . for this canon of antioch speaks of a bishop already consecrated , and so likewise the canon of laodicea is to be understood ; the same case being supposed which is mention'd in the canon of antioch . and if he were unconsecrated before , the laodicean canon refers the whole matter , as far as i can discern , as to the capacity and fitness of the person , to the provincial synod . and if the following canon . be understood of bishops , the consequence will be , that the people will be wholly excluded from their election , till it can be made appear , that at that time the generality of the people were shut out , and the election restrained to the common council ; which is contrary to the examples brought for popular elections , as appears by the instance of alexandria in the choice of athanasius , where the whole multitude is mention'd , and the suffrages of the whole people , and afterwards the plebis vulgíque iudicium in st. jerom , the vota civium in leo is as much spoken of as the honoratorum arbitrium ; and by the same reason , any of the people may be excluded , the rest may ; or at least it shews , that the people have no inherent and unalterable right , without which all other pretences signifie nothing , where law and customs have determined the contrary . and that the customs even then differ'd appears from st. jerom ad rusticum , where he mentions either the people or the bishop chusing . ( . ) another canon is , about the frequency of provincial synods . for in the fifth canon , it is provided , that no person excommunicated by one bishop , should be received into communion by another ; according to the council of arles ; but then no provision was made for the case of appeals ; if any person complain'd , that he was unjustly excommunicated , which it is natural for men to doe . for this purpose , the nicene council decrees , that provincial synods be held twice a year , in lent and autumn , which was confirmed by many other (z) canons . and at these all such causes were to be heard and determined , and persons excommunicated were to be held so by all , unless the provincial synod repealed the sentence . and although the case of bishops be not here mention'd ; yet the african fathers with great reason said , it ought to be understood , since causes are to be heard within the province , and no jurisdiction is mention'd by the council of nice , beyond that of a metropolitane , those onely excepted whose rights are secured according to the prescription then in use in the following canon . for if any other superior authority had then been known , that was the proper place to have inserted it , where the right of appeal is determin'd , that being the most plausible pretence for removing causes to a superiour court. and it is impossible that the nicene fathers should have stopt at provincial synods , if they had known or believed , that christ had appointed a vicar upon earth , who was to be supreme iudge in all ecclesiastical matters ; for it would have been as absurd as if our judges should declare , that all causes are to be determin'd in the countrey courts , when they know there are superior courts of iudicature appointed in westminster-hall . it hath been thought a matter of some difficulty to state the difference between the rights of a patriarch and a metropolitane . but there are two things chiefly , wherein the distinction lies , viz. a greater extent of iurisdiction founded on the consecration of metropolitane bishops in several provinces ; and a power of receiving appeals , or , judicium in majoribus causis , even after provincial synods have determined them . and since in matters of appeal , there must be a stop somewhere , the onely question before us is , where the council of nice fixed it . i say , in a provincial synod by this canon ; for i am certain , it takes notice here of no ecclesiastical iudicatory beyond this . in matters of faith , or upon extraordinary occasions , by the summons of an emperour , or a general concurrence of christian princes a general council is the highest court ; but in the standing and ordinary method of proceeding , ( where there have been no. ancient privileges to the contrary , of which the following canon is to be understood ) a provincial synod is the last court of appeal , according to the council of nice . so that all foreign jurisdiction is excluded by this canon ; and the british churches had a full power within themselves to end all causes that did arise within their own provinces . and it was mere usurpation in any foreign bishop to interpose in any differences in the british churches , because the council of nice had circumscribed the liberty of appeals to provincial synods . and this was it which made the african fathers so stout in defence of their just rights , against the manifest incroachments of the bishop of rome ; and the british churches had as great privileges and as just rights in these matters as the african churches . ( . ) about settling the ancient bounds of jurisdiction as to patriarchal churches in the famous sixth canon . which hath been the occasion of so many warm debates . in the former canon , the nicene fathers fixed the general right of appeals ; and in this canon they settle the particular bounds of patriarchal jurisdiction , according to ancient custome : so that none ought to violate the privileges which churches had hitherto enjoy'd . the words are , let ancient customs prevail , for the bishop of alexandria to have jurisdiction over egypt , libya and pentapolis ; because the bishop of rome hath a like custome ; likewise in antioch , and other provinces , let the privileges of churches be preserved ; let no man be made a bishop without the consent of his metropolitane . if differences arise , let the majority of votes determine . in this canon there are three things principally design'd . ( . ) to confirm the ancient privileges of some of the greater sees ; as rome , alexandria and antioch . ( . ) to secure the privileges of other churches against their encroachments upon them . ( . ) to provide for the quiet establishment of metropolitane churches , which last is so plain that it will need no farther discourse ; but the other two are of great consequence to our design . ( . ) to confirm the ancient privileges of some of the greater sees ; which had gotten the extent of more than a bare metropolitane power to themselves , as is plain in the case of alexandria , which seems to have been the occasion of this canon . not merely from the schism of meletius ( as is commonly thought ) which the council took care of another way , in the (a) synodical epistle to the churches of egypt . but because so large a jurisdiction as had been exercised by the bishops of alexandria , and rome , and antioch , seem'd repugnant to the foregoing canon about provincial synods . it is true that meletius after the schism did consecrate bishops in egypt , in opposition to the bishop of alexandria ; but the question between them was , not concerning the bounds of jurisdiction , but about the validity of meletius his deposition by peter of alexandria ; which meletius , not regarding , fell into a schism , and , to maintain this schism , he consecrated near thirty bishops , as appear'd by the list he gave in to alexander , after the council of nice extant in (b) athanasius . whereby it is evident , that meletius his schism could not be the occasion of this canon ; for that schism did not at all relate to the several province● of egypt here mention'd , which would have continued , if the bishop of alexandria's authority had been confined to a single province , and what stop could it put to the schism , to say , his authority extended over all the roman provinces in egypt ? for , the question was , who had the authority ? not , how far it extended ? but , upon the former canon about provincial synods , there was a very just occasion , to add this concerning the bishops of alexandria and rome : for if no salvo had been made for them , as to the largeness of their jurisdiction , the next thing had been for all the provincial synods to have immediately cast off all respect to them ; except onely those of their own province . now in egypt here are three distinct provinces mention'd as subject to the bishop of alexandria , viz. egypt , libya and pentapolis ; and so the nicene fathers reckon them in their epistle to the churches of egypt , and in these (c) athanasius mentions an hundred bishops ; but sometimes he names onely egypt and libya , as in his epistle to the african bishops ; sometimes egypt , and the two libya's ; and in both comprehending thebais under egypt ; sometimes he names thebais ; and several times , as it is here , onely egypt , libya and pentapolis . which , as justellus saith , comprehend the whole egyptian diocese ; but (d) ammianus marcellinus reckons them otherwise , viz. egypt , thebais and libya , to which posterity , he saith , added augustamnica and pentapolis : but pentapolis was not comprehended under libya , being always a distinct province , and by the division of augustus , was under the proconsul of crete , by the name of cyrenaica . however (e) epiphanius takes in libya , pentapolis , thebais , ammoniaca and mareotis : and saith plainly , that all the provinces of egypt were under the iurisdiction of the bishop of alexandria . and this , he saith , was the custome before the council of nice . for he speaks of the quarrel between peter , bishop of alexandria , and meletius , then bishop of thebais ; of whom he saith , that he was next to the bishop of alexandria , but in subjection to him , all ecclesiastical matters being referred to him . for it is the custome for the bishop of alexandria to have the ecclesiastical jurisdiction over all egypt . by which it is plain , that the bishop of alexandria had then a true patriarchal power by ancient custome , i. e. an ecclesiastical authority over the bishops in several provinces , answering to the power which the praefectus augustalis had over them in the civil government . it is not at all material whether the name of patriarch or diocese ( in that sense as it takes in the extent of patriarchal jurisdiction ) were then in use , for it is the thing we enquire after , and not the use of words : and if the bishop of alexandria had at that time the power of consecration of bishops , of calling councils , of receiving appeals throughout all egypt , no men of sense can deny , that he had a true patriarchal power . i grant he had no metropolitanes then under him in the several provinces . but , what then ? the manner of administration of the patriarchal power might be different then , from following times ; but the extent of the power is the thing in question . either then the bishop of alexandria had a barely metropolitical power or patriarchal . if barely metropolitical , then it could not reach beyond one province ; if it extended to more provinces , with full jurisdiction , then it was patriarchal . and it is a wonder to me , some learned men in their warm debates about this canon could not discern so plain a truth . but it is often said , that there were no such things as patriarchs at this time in the church , nor any dioceses here taken notice of , as they imply an vnion of several provinces under a patriarchal jurisdiction . suppose there were not under those names ; but a jurisdiction over several provinces there was in the bishop of alexandria : which is a true patriarchal power ; and appeals were brought to him out of the several provinces , as appears not onely by the plain testimony of epiphanius in the case of meletius , but by the jurisdiction exercised by dionysius over pentapolis , long before the council of nice . and (f) athanasius saith , the care of those churches then belong'd to the bishop of alexandria . if it be said , that there were then no metropolitanes under the bishop of alexandria , but he was the sole metropolitane , and therefore this was no patriarchal , but a metropolitane power . i answer , ( . ) this doth not solve the difficulty , but rather makes it greater ; because it doth more overthrow the metropolitane government of the church here settled by the council of nice . for then there were several provinces without metropolitanes ; how then could the canons here made be ever observed in them , as to the consecration of bishops and provincial synods ? ( . ) i do confess there was something peculiar in the case of the bishop of alexandria . for all the provinces of egypt were under his immediate care , which was patriarchal as to extent , but metropolitical in the administration . and so was the jurisdiction of the bishop of rome at the time , which is the true reason of bringing the custome of rome to justifie that of alexandria . for as it is well observed by g christianus lupus , the bishop of rome had then no metropolitanes under him within the provinces subject to his iurisdiction ; and so all appeals lay immediately from the several bishops to him . and therein lay the exact parallel between the bishops of rome and alexandria . so that , i do not question , but the first part of this canon , was brought in as a proviso to the former , which put the last resort into provincial synods . for alexander , bishop of alexandria , could not but think himself extremely concerned in this matter , and although he prevailed against arius in matter of doctrine , yet if he had gone home so much less than he came thither , having great part of his authority taken from him by provincial synods , this would have weakned his cause so much in egypt , that for his sake the nicene fathers were willing to make an exception as to the general rule they had laid down before ; which proved of very ill consequence afterwards : for upon this encouragement , others in following councils obtained as large privileges , though without pretence of custome , and the church of rome , though but named occasionally here , to avoid envy . yet improved this to the utmost advantage ; and the agents of the bishop of rome had the impudence in the (h) council of chalcedon to falsifie the title of this canon , and to pretend a supremacy owned by it , which was as far from the intention of this council as a limited patriarch is from being head of the church . and it is impossible for them with all their arts and distinctions they have used , to reconcile this canon with an universal and unbounded supremacy in the bishop of that church . for it would be like the saying that the sheriff of yorkshire shall have jurisdiction over all three ridings , because the king of england hath power over all the nation . what parallel is there between these two ? but if the clause be restrained to his patriarchal power ; then we are certain the council of nice did suppose the bishop of rome to have onely a limited power within certain provinces ; which according to ruffinus , who very well understood the extent of the bishop of romes jurisdiction was onely to the suburbicary churches ; which is the greater diocese mention'd by the council of arles , it so very much exceeding the diocese of any western bishop besides ; and it is observable , that (i) athanasius , as he calls milan the metropolis of italy , i. e. of the italick diocese , so he calls rome the metropolis of romania , i. e. of the roman diocese . but the council of nice fixing the last appeal to provincial synods in other places , utterly overthrows a patriarchal as well as unlimited jurisdiction ; where ancient custome did not then prevail . ( . ) this canon was designed to secure the privileges of other churches . for that is the general nature of exceptions to make the rule more firm in cases not excepted . so that all churches are to enjoy their just rights of having the last resort to provincial synods , that cannot be brought within these exceptions allow'd by the council of nice . and here we fix our right as to the british churches , that they were not under any patriarchal jurisdiction of the bishop of rome before the council of nice , i. e. that he never had the authority to consecrate the metropolitanes or bishops of these provinces ; that he never called them to his councils at rome ; that he had no appeals from hence ; that the british bishops never owned his jurisdiction over them , and therefore our churches were still to enjoy their former privileges of being govern'd by their own provincial synods . it was upon this ground , the cyprian bishops made their application to the council of ephesus ; because the bishop of antioch did invade their privileges contrary to the nicene canons pretending to a right to consecrate their metropolitane , which they knew very well was a design to bring their churches in subjection to him . the council upon hearing the cause declared their opinion in favour of the cyprian privilege ; and not onely so , but declared it to be a common cause that concerned other churches which were bound to maintain their own rights against all vsurpations ; and that no bishops should presume to invade anothers province ; and if they did usurp any authority over them , they were bound to lay it down , as being contrary to the canons ; savouring of worldly ambition ; and destructive of that liberty which jesus christ hath purchased for us with his own bloud . and therefore the council decreed , that every province should enjoy its own rights pure and inviolable , which it had from the beginning , according to the ancient custome . this important canon is passed over very slightly by baronius and others , but (k) carolus à sancto paulo saith it proceeded upon a false suggestion , although the bishops of cyprus do most solemnly avow the truth of their ancient privilege . (l) christianus lupus imputes the decree to the partiality of the council against the bishop of antioch ; although he confesses , they insisted upon the nicene canons . which even (m) leo i. in his eager disputes with anatolius bishop of constantinople pleads for as inviolable , and as the standard of the rights of churches . and by the decree of the council of ephesus , all churches are bound to stand up for their own rights against the usurpations of foreign bishops . but (n) joh. morinus apprehending the force of this consequence , makes it his business to overthrow it by shewing that this was a particular and occasional thing , and therefore not to be made an example to other churches . a twofold occasion he assigns ; first , the difficulty of passage by sea from cyprus to antioch , especially in winter , when it was very possible a metropolitane might die , and rather than live so long without one , they chose to set up one themselves ; another is the fourty years schism in the church of antioch , between euzoius , meletius and paulinus . but these are onely slight and frivolous evasions . for the cyprian bishops never alledged the first inconveniencie , nor did the bishop of antioch the second : no , not when alexander was unanimously chosen , as morinus confesseth , and made his complaint of the cyprian privilege to innocentius i. as may be seen by his epistle ; to whom the pope gave an ignorant answer , as appears by morinus himself : for he pretends that the cyprian bishops had broken the nicene canons , in consecrating their own metropolitane , because , saith he , the council of nice had set the church of antioch , not over any province , but over the diocese ; by which he must mean the eastern diocese , within which cyprus was comprehended : but there is not one word of the diocese in the nicene canons , and these things are refer'd to ancient customs , as morinus acknowledgeth ; and he saith , the diocese of the orient , as distinguished from asiana and pontica was not settled at the time of the nicene council . and yet he brings the testimony of innocentius to disprove the allegation of the cyprian bishops ; when he confesses , that he was so mistaken in the nicene canons , on which he grounds that right ; and the cyprian bishops had the nicene canons to plead for themselves , as the general council of ephesus thought , who understood them far better than innocentius seems to have done . if what he saith had been true , it is not to be thought that the council of ephesus would have determin'd in favour of the cyprian bishops . but morinus urges against them . ( . ) that they named onely three bishops , troilus , sabinus and epiphanius . but do they not ayer that it had been always so from the apostles time ? ( . ) that no one pleaded for the bishop of antioch . what then ? if they were satisfied of the truth of their allegation , the nicene council , had already determin'd the case . ( . ) they onely doe it conditionally , if it were so : but they enjoy'd their privilege by virtue of it ; which shews it could not be disproved . ( . ) the cyprian privilege was granted in zeno's time , upon finding the body of st. barnabas . but it is evident they enjoy'd it before ; by the decree of the council of ephesus . and it was not properly a privilege ; for that implies a particular exemption ; but it was a confirmation of their just rights : and not onely as to them , but as to all provincial churches . so that this decree is the magna charta of metropolitane churches , against any incroachments upon their liberties : and so the council thought it , when it appoints all metropolitanes to take copies of it , and voids all acts that should be made against it . it is necessary now to enquire , whether the bishop of rome had a patriarchal power over the british churches , before the council of nice : and the onely way to doe that , is to examine the several patriarchal rights which were allow'd in the church . and if the marks of none of them do appear ; we have reason to conclude , he had no patriarchal power . for however some urge the conversion of britain by eleutherius as a pretence to the bishop of rome's authority , yet , allowing it to be true , no man of understanding can pretend to derive a patriarchal power from thence , unless there were a concurrence of jurisdiction from that time . neither were it of force , if saint peter himself had preached the gospel here ; and settled the bishops of these churches . for , by the same reason , there could have been no patriarchates at antioch or alexandria , ( where he is supposed to have placed saint mark ) but if notwithstanding , the bishops of those churches had a true patriarchal power ; then so might the metropolitanes of the british churches have their proper rights . although saint peter himself had founded these churches . (o) morinus saith , the patriarchal power consisted in these four things . ( . ) in the consecration of metropolitanes , and the confirmation of other bishops . ( . ) in calling councils out of the several provinces under his iurisdiction . ( . ) in receiving appeals from provincial synods . ( . ) in the delegation of persons with authority from him to act in the several provinces . the first is that upon which the rest are founded : as we see in the case of the bishop of antioch and the bishops of cyprus ; for if he could have carried the point of consecration of the bishop of constance , he knew all the rest would follow . in the patriarchate of alexandria it appears by the epistles of (p) synesius , that the bishops of pentapolis , although then under a metropolitane of their own , yet had their consecration from the bishop of alexandria . when justinian advanced the bishop of justiniana prima to the dignity of a patriarch , by giving him power over seven provinces , he (q) expresses the patriarchal power by this ; that all the bishops of those provinces should be consecrated by him , and consequently be under his jurisdiction , and be liable to be called to his council , as justinian elsewhere determines : and when the (r) bishop of justinianopolis removed from cyprus thither , he not onely enjoy'd the cyprian privilege there , but was allow'd for a patriarch by the council in trullo , and consequently , the consecration of the bishops in the province of hellespont belong'd to him . and when the patriarchal power was settled at constantinople , that was the chief thing insisted upon , at least as to metropolitanes . the first attempt the bishop of constantinople made towards any true patriarchal power ( for all that the (s) council of constantinople gave him was a mere honorary title ) was the consecrating bishops in the dioceses of asiana , and pontica , and thracia : and this was charged on st. chrysostome as an innovation in the synod (t) ad quercum , i. e. in the suburbs of chalcedon . and his (u) actings in the council at ephesus , and consecrating of many bishops in that diocese , could not be justified by the canons of the church : the best excuse is what (w) palladius makes , viz. that his going into asia , was upon the great importunity of the bishops and clergy there : for what (x) morinus saith , that he did this by the pope's authority , is ridiculous ; it being not once thought of by st. chrysostome or his friends . and for a bishop of constantinople to act by authority from the bishop of rome , was then as absurd , as for the czar of muscovy to act by commission from the emperour of germany . for it is plain , that one stood upon equal privileges with the other ; as fully appears by the council of chalcedon , and the warm debates which follow'd it , between the two sees . and what could have served leo's turn better against anatolius , than to have produced st. chrysostome's delegation from one of his predecessours ? but in the council of chalcedon , where the right of the patriarch of constantinople was at large debated , this act of st. chrysostome was alledged as a remarkable precedent to prove a patriarchal power : and there (y) a canon was passed , that the metropolitanes of those three dioceses should be consecrated by the bishop of constantinople , which was the establishment of his patriarchal authority over them . upon this pope leo insisted on the council of nice and the canons there made , and pleaded strongly , that this was an unjust invasion of the rights of those churches which ought to be inviolably preserved . and we desire no better arguments against the pope's pretended patriarchal power over these western churches , than what leo insisted on for the dioceses of asia , pontus and thrace , against the patriarchal power of the bishop of constantinople . for we plead the very same things ; that all churches ought to enjoy the rights of provincial synods : and that no person can be excused in violating the nicene canons . but if it be pretended , that the bishop of rome had always a patriarchal power over the british churches ; let any one instance be given of it : let them tell us when he consecrated the metropolitanes or bishops of the three provinces of britain ; or summon'd them to his councils ; or heard their causes ; or received appeals from hence ; or so much as sent any one legate to exercise authority in his name ; and if they can produce nothing of this kind , there is not then the least appearance of his patriarchal power . we do not deny that the bishop of rome had any patriarchal power in those times ; but we say , it was confined within the roman diocese ; as that did comprehend the churches within the suburbicary provinces ; and within these he exercised the same authority that the eastern patriarchs did , i. e. he consecrated bishops , called synods and received appeals , which are the main patriarchal rights . but if we go beyond these provinces , (z) petrus de marca himself is extremely put to it to prove the exercise of a patriarchal power ; he confesses the matter is not clear either as to consecrations or councils , but he runs to references , consultations and appeals in greater causes ; and yet he (a) confesses , as to appeals ( which onely do imply a just authority ) there is no one certain evidence of them before the council of sardica . so that by the confession of the most learned and judicious of those who plead for the pope's being patriarch of the west ; no proper acts of patriarchal power can be proved beyond the roman diocese , before the council of nice . and the same (b) learned archbishop doth grant , that the bishop of rome did not consecrate even in italy out of the roman diocese , as appears by the bishops of milan and aquileia ; nor in africa , nor in spain , nor in gaul . and , after these concessions , it is impossible to prove the bishop of rome patriarch of the western churches . which some late writers of that church have been much concerned at , and have endeavour'd to shew the contrary . (c) christianus lupus hath written a dissertation on purpose ; but the greatest thing he saith to prove it is , that to affirm , that the bishop of rome had no such authority , is an eusebian and schismatical errour , and came first from the council of philippopolis ; yet he grants , that in the western provinces , the metropolitanes did consecrate their suffragans , and they their metropolitanes . but all this he saith , was done by special privilege . but where is any such privilege to be seen ? it is evident by the nicene canons , every province had its own just rights for these things . and if there were any privilege , it must be produced on the other side . he doth not deny , that (d) leo disown'd having any thing to doe in the consecration of the gallican bishops , in his epistle to the bishops of vienna , or that (e) hincmarus saith , the transalpine bishops did not belong to the consecration or councils of the bishop of rome . and therefore ecclesiastical causes were to be heard and determin'd by provincial synods : but he thinks to bring off all at last , by saying , (f) that these were privileges indulged , because of distance from rome . which is a mere shuffle , without any colour for it , unless such privileges could be produced , for otherwise it will appear to be common right , and yet this is the main , which a late authour , (g) emanuel à schelstraet hath to say about this matter . but this hath been the common artifice of rome ; where any bishops insisted on their own rights and ancient customs , and canons of councils , to pretend that all came from privileges allow'd by the see of rome ; and the defenders of it are now shamefully driven to these arts , having nothing else left to plead for the pope's usurpation . but this last (h) authour ( the present keeper of the vatican library , which makes so great a noise in the world for church records ) having endeavour'd , in a set discourse , to assert the pope's patriarchal power over the western churches , i shall here examine the strength of all that he produceth to that purpose . he agrees with us in determining the patriarchal rights , which he saith lie in these three things : ( . ) in the right of consecration of bishops and metropolitanes . ( . ) in the right of summoning them to councils . ( . ) in the right of appeals . all which he proves to be the just and true patriarchal rights from the seventeenth canon of the eighth general council . and by these we are contented to stand or fall . ( . ) as to the right of consecration of bishops and metropolitanes throughout the western churches . he confesses , that such a right was not exercised , because the metropolitanes in the several provinces were allow'd to consecrate the bishops belonging to them , upon the summons of the provincial synod ; and for this he produces the th canon of the council of nice . here then is a plain allowance of the metropolitane rights by this general council ; but how doth this prove the patriarchal ? or rather , is it not a plain derogation from them ? no , saith he , the patriarchal rights are preserved by the sixth canon . i grant it ; but then it must be proved , that the patriarchal rights of the bishop of rome , did at the time of the council of nice extend to all the western churches , which i utterly deny . yet i grant farther , that the bishop of rome had all the patriarchal rights , within the provinces , which were then under his jurisdiction , and were therefore called the suburbicary churches . but these were so far from taking in all the western churches , that they did not comprehend the provinces of italy properly so called : but he offers to prove out of gratian , and from the testimony of pelagius , bishop of rome , that by reason of the length of the way , the bishops of milan and aquileia did consecrate each other . but is such authority sufficient to prove that the bishops of milan and aquileia were of old subject to the roman patriarchate ? we have nothing to prove this , but the bare word of one who was too much concerned to be a competent witness ; and too much alone to be a sufficient witness in this matter . the length and difficulty of the way was no hindrance afterwards for obtaining the pope's consent for the consecration of the bishop of milan , as appears by the instance of gregory produced by him ; why then should that be alledged as the reason before ? for the ways were not one jot shorter or easier to pass . but if we compare the election and consecration of st. ambrose at milan , with that of deus dedit in st. gregory's time ; we shall see an apparent difference in the circumstances of them . for at the first there was a provincial synod by the emperour's appointment , as (i) theodoret relates it , who referr'd the choice to the emperour ; but he declining it , and the city falling into great heats about it , st. ambrose was of a sudden chosen , being then governour of the province , and so was inthronized , by the bishops there present . not one word here of the consent of the bishop of rome required , or so much as mention'd ; and yet pope damasus was as ready to assert any thing that looked like a right of his see , as pelagius or gregory . but at that time st. ambrose , at milan , had as great authority as damasus at rome ; and the italick diocese was as considerable as the roman . if the length and difficulty of the way were the true reason why st. ambrose did not go to rome ; yet why no messenger sent ? why no agent from the pope to declare his consent ? but then the extent of the roman diocese was better understood , wherein all the bishops were to receive consecration from the bishop of rome , having no metropolitane of their own ; but this did not reach so far as milan . this roman diocese was truly patriarchal , having several provinces under it , and was therein peculiar and made a precedent for the bishop of alexandria , all the other western churches being then govern'd by their several bishops and metropolitanes . (k) jac. leschassier thinks that five of the eleven provinces of italy made up this diocese ; i mean the provinces of augustus , and not of constantine ; and within these were about seventy bishops who belonged to the consecration of the bishop of rome , having no other metropolitane ; and with this , as he observes , the old notitia of the vatican , produced by (l) baronius , agrees ; wherein the suffragans of the bishop of rome are said to be the bishop of campania , the marsi , tuscia , vmbria and marchia : which notitia is the same with the provinciale romanum , published by (m) miraeus , and compared by him with four mss. wherein are set down all the bishops of the roman province , as it is there called . (n) ferd. vghellus reckons up seventy bishops of those who were immediately under the bishop of rome 's jurisdiction , and had no metropolitane over them ; these were within the provinces of latium , valeria , tuscia , picenum and vmbria ; which neither answering exactly to the jurisdiction of the roman prefect , nor to that of the vicarius vrbis ; we are not to judge of the extent of this diocese from that of the civil government , but from ancient custome , to which the council of nice doth expresly attribute it . in the diurnus romanus , lately published by (o) garnerius out of an ancient manuscript , there is one title , de ordinatione episcopi suburbicarii à romano pontifice , where the whole process , as to the consecration of a new bishop , is set down , but from thence it appears , that none but the suburbicary bishops belonged to his consecration . we freely grant then , that the bishop of rome had a patriarchal power over several provinces ; as the bishop of alexandria was allowed to have by the council of nice in imitation of him ; and that within this diocese he did exercise this as a patriarchal right to consecrate bishops within those several provinces , as the bishop of alexandria did : but we deny that ever the bishop of rome did exercise this part of his patriarchal power beyond the foremention'd provinces . but to prove the larger extent of the pope's power as to consecrations the epistle of siricius to anysius bishop of thessalonica (p) is urged , whom the pope makes his legate in the part of illyricum , and charges him , that no consecrations should be allowed which were made without his consent : and the same appears by the epistles of boniface to the bishops of thessaly and illyricum , and of leo to anastasius . all which are published together by holstenius out of the barberine library ; or rather out of his transcripts by card. barberine ( but (q) hieron . alexander cites a passage out of the same collection as in the vatican library ) but from whencesoever it came , the objection seems to be the more considerable , because , as (r) holstenius in his notes observes , (s) blondel had denied that it could be proved by any monument of antiquity , that the bishop of thessalonica was legate to the pope before the time of leo. but , to give a clear account of this matter , leo himself , in his epistle to anastasius , derives this authority no higher than from siricius , who gave it to anysius bishop of thessalonica , certa tum primum ratione commisit , ut per illam provinciam positis , quas ad disciplinam teneri voluit , ecclesiis subveniret . siricius immediately succeeded damasus , who died according to (t) holstenius , dec. . three years after the council of constantinople had advanced that see to the patriarchal dignity ; which gave great occasion of jealousie and suspicion to the bishops of rome , that being the imperial city as well as rome ; and (u) socrates observes , that from that time nectarius the bishop of constantinople , had the government of constantinople and thrace , as falling to his share . this made the bishops of rome think it high time to look about them , and to inlarge their jurisdiction , since the bishop of new rome had gained so large an accession by that council ; and to prevent his farther incroachments westwards , his diocese of thrace bordering upon macedonia , the subtilest device they could think of , to secure that province and to inlarge their own authority , was , to persuade the bishop of thessalonica to act as by commission from the bishop of rome : so that he should enjoy the same privileges which he had before . and being back'd by so great an interest , he would be better able to contest with so powerfull a neighbour as the bishop of constantinople . and if any objected , that this was to break the rules settled by the council of nice ; they had that answer ready ; that the bishop of constantinople began : and their concernment was , to secure the rights of other churches from being invaded by him ; by which means they endeavour'd to draw those churches bordering on the thracian diocese , first to own a submission to the bishop of rome as their patriarch ; which yet was so far from giving them ease , which some it may be expected by it , that it onely involved them in continual troubles , as appears by that very collection of holstenius . for the bishops of constantinople were not negligent in promoting their own authority in the provinces of illyricum , nor in withstanding the innovations of the bishop of rome . to which purpose they obtained an imperial edict to this day extant in both (w) codes , which strictly forbids any innovation in the provinces of illyricum , and declares , that if any doubtfull case happen'd , according to the ancient custome and canons , it was to be left to the provincial synod , but not without the advice of the bishop of constantinople . the occasion whereof was this , perigenes being rejected at patrae , the bishop of rome takes upon him to put him into corinth , without the consent of the provincial synod : this the bishops of thessaly , among whom the chief were , pausianus , cyriacus and calliopus , look upon as a notorius invasion of their rights ; and therefore in a provincial synod they appoint another person to succeed there . which proceeding of theirs is heinously taken at rome , as appears by (x) boniface's epistles about it , both to rufus of thessalonica , whom he had made his legate , and to the bishops of thessaly , and the other provinces . but they make application to the patriarch of constantinople , who procures this law , in favour of the ancient provincial synods , and for restraint of the pope's incroachments , but withall , so as to reserve the last resort to the bishop of constantinople . at this boniface shews himself extremely nettled , as appears by his next epistle to rufus , and incourages him , to stand it out to the utmost ; and gives him authority to excommunicate those bishops , and to depose maximus , whom they consecrated according to the ancient canons . but all the art of his management of this cause lay , in throwing the odium of it upon the ambition of the bishop of constantinople ; and thus the contention between the bishops of the two imperial cities proved the destruction of the ancient polity of the church , as it was settled by the council of nice . it is said by (y) petrus de marca and holstenius , that all this attempt of theodosius was to no purpose ; because afterwards the bishops of macedonia submitted to the pope's power ; and that rescript was revoked by another of theodosius published in the roman collection . it cannot be denied , that for some time the bishop of rome prevailed , but it appears , that it was not long , by the sad complaint made to boniface ii. of the prevalency of the patriarch of constantinople in those parts made by stephen , bishop of larissa , the metropolis of thessaly , and his brethren theodosius , elpidius and timotheus : and our (z) author himself confesses , that it appears by the notitiae , that these provinces were at last wholly taken away from the jurisdiction of the bishop of rome , and made subject to the patriarch of constantinople . from which account of the matter of fact we have these things very observable . ( . ) that there was no precedent could be produced as to the pope's interposing in their consecrations before the time of siricius . it is true , damasus his epistle to acholius is mention'd sometimes by the following popes ; but any one that reads both his epistles in the (a) roman collection will find , that neither of them do relate to this matter : and the former is not onely directed to acholius , but to several other bishops ; and the design of it is , to advise them to take care , that a worthy person be put into the see of constantinople in the approaching council ; and to the same purpose is the following epistle to acholius . but what is this to the pope's power about consecrations in the provinces of illyricum ? and how was acholius more concern'd than euridicus , severus , vranius , and the rest of the bishops ? ( . ) that the bishop of rome's interposing in their consecrations was disliked and opposed as an innovation by the bishops of those provinces . which appears by the epistles of pope boniface about the case of perigenes : for by the canons of the church , the consecration and designation of the bishops of the province was left to the provincial synods : and therefore they did not understand on what account the bishop of rome should interpose therein . ( . ) that the law of theodosius was principally designed to restore the canonical discipline and the authority of provincial synods . for the words are , omni innovatione cessante , vetustatem & canones pristinos ecclesiasticos , qui nunc usque tenuerunt , per omnes illyrici provincias servari praecipimus . which cannot be well understood of any other canons than such as relate to the ecclesiastical government of provinces , and not of any peculiar customs there , as gothofred mistakes the meaning of them : and in case any difference did arise , it was to be left conventui sacerdotali sanctóque iudicio , i. e. to the provincial synod , and not to any legate of the bishop of rome ; whose incroachment was that innovation which was to be laid aside : as is now plain by the roman collection , without which this law was not rightly understood , as appears by the several attempts of baronius , peron and gothofred . ( . ) that although by the means of honorius , upon the importunity of the bishop of rome this rescript was recalled by (b) theodosius : yet the former onely was enter'd into the codes both of theodosius and justinian ; which hath all the formality of a law , being directed to the p. p. of illyricum , and hath the date by consuls annexed ; but the revocation is onely a rescript from theodosius to honorius , and refers to an edict sent to the p. p. of illyricum ; which not appearing , the other being enter'd into the code , gives great ground to believe that this revocation was voided , and the former stood as the law ; which ought rather to be presumed to be the act of justinian himself , the privileges of constantinople being concerned herein , than merely the pique of tribonian and the collectours of the laws against the roman see , as (c) holstenius suggests . so that from this whole matter it appears what opposition the pope's interposing in foreign consecrations met with , not onely from the bishops of those provinces , but from the imperial laws . but let us now see what patriarchal authority , as to consecrations , the bishops of rome exercised in these more western churches . as to gaul , our (d) authour confesseth , that the bishops of rome did not challenge the practice of consecrations to themselves , as appears by the words of leo to the bishops of the province of vienna , which he produces . non nobis ordinationes vestrarum provinciarum defendimus : ( for so he understands these words of consecrations , although they are capable of another meaning , viz. that he did not take upon him to manage the affairs of the gallican churches , but onely took care that they should doe it themselves according to the canons , which was leo's pretence in that (e) epistle ) but then he distinguisheth between the right it self , and the exercise of it , which may be parted with by particular privileges granted , but the right it self may be still reserved ; and the same he after saith in general of the (f) western provinces , wherein he can trace no footsteps of the practice , and therefore concludes , it must be from privileges granted by the bishops of rome , by reason of distance , which the patriarch of alexandria would not grant . but we are now proving the right by the practice , and therefore it is unreasonable to alledge a right without it ; for this way of proving is ridiculous ; viz. to prove that the pope had patriarchal rights , because he did exercise them ; and then to say , though he did not exercise them , yet he had them ; and so to prove that he had them , because he was patriarch of the west . yet this is in truth the way of proof this late authour useth ; he sheweth from lupus , that all consecrations of metropolitane and provincial bishops belong to the patriarch : then to prove a patriarchal power , it is necessary to prove , that all the consecrations within the provinces do belong to that see. but how doth this appear as to the western provinces ? did all the consecrations of bishops within them belong to the bishops of rome ? if not , then they were not within the roman patriarchate : if they did , we expect the proof of it by the practice . no , he confesseth , the practice was different ; but still they had the patriarchal right . how so ? yes , saith he , that is plain , because the bishop of rome was patriarch of the west . this way of proving may be good against de marca , who had granted the pope to be the western patriarch ; but it is ridiculous to those that deny it . but he attempts something farther , viz. g that the bishop of rome had , before the council of nice , the power of deposing bishops in gaul , as appears by martianus of arles deposed by stephanus . this h martianus had openly declared himself of the novatian party ; at which faustinus , bishop of lyons , and other bishops in gaul were very much troubled , and expressed their resentments of it , but he slighted their censures of him : both parties made applications to st. cyprian , and martianus desired to preserve communion with him ; but he was utterly rejected there for joining in the novatian schism . but it seems , by st. cyprian's epistle , he had still hopes not to be condemned at rome , although the schism began there . for , saith he , how ill would it look , after novatian himself had been so lately and universally rejected , to suffer our selves to be deceived by his flatterers ? st. cyprian and his collegues were in no danger , for they had already detected and condemned him , therefore this must be understood of stephen , which is the reason he presses him so hard , and with some authority to dispatch his letters to the people of arles to chuse another bishop in the place of martianus , dirigantur in provinciam & ad plebem arelatae consistentem à te literae , &c. and a little before he tells him , he ought to send his mind at large to their brethren the bishops of gaul , that they ought not suffer him to insult over their fraternity , &c. and the reason he gives for this freedom which he useth with him is , because they held the balance of the government of the church in common among them ; and , being several pastours , they took care of the same flock , who ought all to join in condemning such a follower of novatian , and thereby preserve the reputation of their predecessours , cornelius and lucius , who were glorious martyrs : and he especially who succeeded them . and so , not doubting his compliance , in a friendly manner he desires him , to let him know who succeeded martianus at arles , that he might know to whom to write . i appeal to any man of common sense , whether this looks like the application made to the western patriarch , to whom st. cyprian himself owed subjection as such . for when the bishops of rome began to challenge a patriarchal power over the churches of thessaly , they expected application to be made to them in a style suitable to that dignity , as is very remarkable in the i roman collection ; as in the petition of stephanus , bishop of larissa , the metropolis of thessaly , domino meo sancto ac beatissimo & revera venerando patri patrum , & archiepiscopo atque patriarchae bonifacio data supplicatio à stephano exiguo : and in the very same style elpidius , stephanus and timotheus . these write like men that knew their distance , and what authority the bishop of rome then challenged ; but the meek and humble st. cyprian seems to stand upon equal terms with the bishop of rome , or rather , as if he were upon the higher ground , he takes upon him to tell him his duty , and rather checks him for his neglect in it , than owns any authority in him superiour to his . so that if any patriarchal power be to be inferr'd from this epistle , it would be much rather , that st. cyprian was patriarch of the west , than the bishop of rome ; since he is rather superiour , who directs what another should doe , than he who doeth what is directed ; and if from hence it follows , that the execution of the canons was in the bishop of rome , it will likewise follow , that the directing that execution was in the bishop of carthage . but we are told , k that , even in africa , no consecrations were allow'd , without the consent of the bishop of rome : this is great news indeed , of which the african code gives us no information : but l holstenius finds it in an epistle of siricius or of innocentius , ( which he pleases , for the same rules are in both ) onely in the canon law it is taken from innocentius , and the true sense is given of it , extra conscientiam , metropolitani episcopi , nullus audeat ordinare episcopum . but what is this to the roman patriarchate ? and our authour doth not seem to rely upon it ; but he alledges a passage in optatus , that eunomius and olympius , two bishops , were sent to carthage to consecrate a bishop in the place both of cecilian and donatus : and albaspinaeus saith , they were sent by the pope's authority . but this observation of his he hath not from m optatus , by whom it rather appears , that they were sent by the emperour , who stopt cecilian at brixia . and no one that reads the passages about milthiades at that time , and how constantine joined marinus , maternus and rheticius in commission with him , can ever imagine , that the bishop of rome was then esteemed the patriarch of the west ; and , as such , to have had jurisdiction over the bishops of africa . the last (n) attempt to prove the pope's patriarchal power , as to consecrations in the western churches , is from his authority of giving palls to the metropolitanes . which he proves from gregory's epistles , as to the bishops of arles and london ; and from an epistle of boniface , bishop of mentz , wherein , he saith , it was agreed in france , that the metropolitanes should receive palls from the roman see. but how far are we now gone from the council of nice and the rules of church-politie then established ? we do not deny , that the bishops of rome did assume to themselves in following ages a more than patriarchal power over the western churches : but we say there are no footsteps of it in the time of the council of nice ; and that what power they gained , was by vsurpation upon the rights of metropolitanes and provincial synods then settled by general consent of the bishops of the christian church . but this vsurpation was not made in an instant , but by several steps and degrees , by great artifice and subtilty , drawing the metropolitanes themselves , under a pretence of advancing their authority , to betray their rights . and among the artifices of the court of rome this of the pall was none of the least ; for by it the popes pretended to confirm and inlarge the privileges of metropolitanes which hereby they did effectually overthrow , as though they received them merely from the favour of the bishop of rome , which did undoubtedly belong to them by ancient right . but that this was a mere device to bring the metropolitanes into dependence on the court of rome , appears by the most ancient form of sending the pall in the o diurnus romanus , where it is finely called , the shewing their unanimity with st. peter . but what the nature and design , and antiquity of the pall was , is so fully set forth by p petrus de marca , and q garnerius , that i shall say no more of it : onely that from hence the ancient rights of the metropolitane churches do more fully appear , because it was so long before this badge of subjection was received in these western churches ; for the synod which boniface mentions , wherein the metropolitanes consented to receive palls from rome , was not till the middle of the th century : and great arts and endeavours were used in all the western churches , before they could be brought to yield to this real badge of the pope's patriarchal power over them . which is particularly true of the british churches which preserved their metropolitane rights , as long as their churches were in any tolerable condition ; and that without suffering any diminution of them from the pope's patriarchal power : as will farther appear in this discourse . ( . ) the next patriarchal right to be examined , is that of calling bishops within their jurisdiction to councils . it is truly observed by r de marca , that those who received consecration from another , were bound by the ancient discipline of the church attend to his councils ; and in the sense of the old canon law , s those two expressions , to belong to the consecration , or to the council , were all one . and so every metropolitane had a right to summon the bishops of his province , and the primates or patriarchs , as many as received consecrations from them . thus the bishop of rome's patriarchal council consisted of those within his own diocese or the suburbicary churches . where there being no metropolitanes , the roman council did much exceed others in the number of bishops belonging to it : thence galla placidia relates , how she found the bishop of rome compassed about with a great number of bishops which he had gather'd out of innumerable cities of italy , by reason of the dignity of his place . it seems then no bishops of other western churches were summon'd to the roman councils . but the bishops of sicily were then under the italian government , and reckon'd with the italian bishops . it may be question'd , whether in ruffinus his time they were comprehended within the suburbicary churches . but in leo's time the bishops of rome had inlarged their jurisdiction so far , as to summon the bishops of sicily to their councils . this is evident from leo's epistle to all the bishops of sicily , where he charges them every year to send three of their number to a council in rome ; and this he requires in pursuance of the nicene canons ; from whence it seems probable , that the bishop of rome did by degrees gain all the churches within the jurisdiction of the vicarius vrbis as his patriarchal diocese . for sicily was one of the ten provinces belonging thereto . but our (t) authour saith , that the council of nice speaks there onely of provincial councils , and not of patriarchal . what then ? was sicily within the roman province , considering the bishop of rome merely as a metropolitane ? that is very absurd , since sicily was a province of it self , and as such , ought to have had a metropolitane of its own : and so all the other neighbour provinces to rome ; whereas we reade of none there ; but as far as the bishop of rome's jurisdiction extended , it was immediate , and swallow'd up all metropolitane rights . i know (u) petrus de marca thinks there were metropolitanes within the suburbicary churches ; but i see no authority he brings for it besides the nicene canon and the decrees of innocentius and leo which relate to other churches . but any one that carefully reads the epistles of leo to the bishops within those provinces , and compares them with those written to the bishops without them , will , as (w) quesnel hath well observed , find so different a strain in them , that from thence he may justly infer , that there were no metropolitanes in the former , but there were in the latter . when he (x) writes to the bishop of aquileia he takes notice of his provincial synod , and directs the epistles of general concernment to the metropolitane ; as he doth not onely to him , but to (y) the bishop of ravenna too . and when (z) eusebius , bishop of milan , wrote to him , he gives an account of the provincial council which he held . but there is nothing like this , in the epistles sent to the bishops within the ten provinces , no mention is therein made of metropolitanes , or of any provincial synods . but here we find the bishops of sicily in common summon'd to send three of their number to an annual council at rome . from whence i conclude , that the pope's patriarchal council lay within the compass of these suburbicary churches . i do not deny but upon occasion there might be more bishops summon'd to meet at a council in rome ; as when (a) aurelian gave the bishops of italy leave to meet at rome in the case of paulus samosatenus . and when they met with julius , in the case of athanasius , and such like instances of an extraordinary nature and very different from the fixed canonical councils ; which were provincial elsewhere , but in the roman diocese they were patriarchal ; yet they extended no farther than to the bishops within the suburbicary churches . and whosoever considers the councils of italy in saint ambrose's time , published by (b) sirmondus , will find that the bishops of the italick diocese did not think themselves obliged to resort to rome for a patriarchal council . and , which is more observable , the latter of them extremely differs from damasus about the same matter ; which was the consecration of maximus to be bishop of constantinople . for (c) damasus , in his epistle to acholius , &c. bitterly exclaims against the setting up maximus , as though all religion lay at stake , and admonished them at the next council at constantinople to take care that a fitter person be chosen in his room : and the same he re-inforces in another epistle to acholius alone . but (d) st. ambrose , and the bishops of italy with him , in a conciliar address to theodosius , justifie the consecration of maximus , and dislike that of gregory and nectarius . now in this case i desire to know , whether this council own'd the bishop of rome's patriarchal power ? for (e) em. à schelstraet , following christianus lupus , saith , that in the pope's patriarchal power is implied , that the bishops are onely to consult and advise , but the determination doth wholly belong to the pope as patriarch ; and that the bishop of alexandria had the same power appears by the bishops of egypt declaring they could not doe any thing without the bishop of alexandria . let us then grant , that the bishop of rome had the same authority within his patriarchal diocese , doth not this unavoidably exclude the bishops of the italick diocese from being under his patriarchate ? for if they had been under it , would they have , not barely met , and consulted , and sent to the emperour without him , but in flat opposition to him ? and when afterwards the western bishops met in council at capua , in order to the composing the differences in the church of antioch , although it were within the roman patriarchate , yet it being a council of bishops assembled out of the italick diocese as well as the roman , the bishop of rome did not preside therein , but st. ambrose ; as appears by (f) st. ambrose his epistle to theophilus , about the proceedings of this council ; for he saith , he hopes what theophilus and the bishops of egypt should determine in that cause about flavianus , would not be displeasing to their holy brother , the bishop of rome . and there follows another (g) epistle in st. ambrose which overthrows the pope's patriarchal power over the western churches by the confession of the pope himself . for that which had passed under the name of st. ambrose is now found by (h) holstenius to be written by siricius , and is so published in the roman collection , and since in the (i) collection of councils at paris . this epistle was written by siricius to anysius and other bishops of illyricum , concerning the case of bonosus , which had been referr'd to them by the council of capua , as being the neighbour bishops , and therefore , according to the rules of the church , fittest to give judgement in it . but they , either out of a complement or in earnest , desired to know the pope's opinion about it . so his epistle begins , accepi literas vestras de bonoso episcopo , quibus , vel pro veritate , vel pro modestia , nostram sententiam sciscitari voluistis . and are these the expressions of one with patriarchal power , giving answer to a case of difficulty which canonically lies before him ? but he afterwards declares , he had nothing to doe in it , since the council of capua had referr'd it to them , and therefore they were bound to give judgment in it . sed cum hujusmodi fuerit concilii capuensis judicium — advertimus quod nobis judicandi forma competere non possit . if the bishop of rome had then patriarchal power over all the western churches , how came he to be excluded from judging this cause by the proceedings of the council of capua ? would pope siricius have born this so patiently and submissively , and declined meddling in it , if he had thought that it did of right belong to him to determine it ? if the execution of the canons belongs to the bishop of rome as the supreme patriarch , how comes the council of capua not to refer this matter immediately to him , who was so near them ; but , without so much as asking his judgment , to appoint the hearing and determining it to the bishops of macedonia ? we have no reason to question the sincerity of this epistle which card. barberine published as it lay with others in holstenius his papers taken out of the vatican , and other roman mss. by the express order of alexander vii . and although a late (k) advocate for the pope's power in france against de marca , hath offer'd several reasons to prove this epistle counterfeit , yet they are all answer'd by a (l) doctour of the sorbon . so that this epistle of siricius is a standing monument , not onely against the pope's absolute and unlimited power , but his patriarchal , out of his own diocese . but to justifie the pope's patriarchal power in calling the western bishops to his council at rome , we have several (m) instances brought ; as of some gallican bishops present at the council under damasus ; wilfrid , an english bishop under agatho a legate from the council held in britain ; with felix of arles and others ; and some others of later times . but what do extraordinary councils , meeting at rome , prove , as to the bishop of rome's being patriarch of the western churches ? do the western councils , meeting at milan , arles , ariminum , sardica , or such places , prove the bishops of them to be all patriarchs ? these things are not worth mentioning , unless there be some circumstance to shew that the bishop of rome called the western bishops together by his patriarchal power , for which there is no evidence brought . but there is a very great difference between councils assembled for vnity of faith or discipline from several dioceses , and provincial synods , and patriarchal councils called at certain times to attend the patriarchal see , as is to be seen in the n diurnus romanus , where the bishops , within the roman patriarchate , oblige themselves to obey the summons to a council at rome , at certain fixed times , as garnerius shews ; which , he saith , was three times in the year . but he adds , this extended no farther than to the bishops within the suburbicary churches , who had no primate but the bishop of rome , and so this was a true patriarchal council . ( . ) but the last right contested for , is , that of appeals in greater causes . by which we understand such application of the parties concerned as doth imply a superiour jurisdiction in him they make their resort to , whereby he hath full authority to determine the matters in difference : for otherwise appeals may be no more than voluntary acts in the parties , and then the person appealed to hath no more power than their consent gives him . now in the christian church , for preservation of peace and unity , it was usual to advise in greater cases with the bishops of other churches , and chiefly with those of the greatest reputation , who were wont to give their judgment , not by way of authority , but of friendly correspondence ; not to shew their dominion , but their care of preserving the unity of the church . of this we have a remarkable instance in the italick council , of which st. ambrose was president , who did interpose in the affairs of the eastern church ; not with any pretence of authority over them , but merely out of zeal to keep up and restore unity among them . they knew very well how suspicious the eastern bishops were of the western bishops meddling in their matters ever since the council of sardica ( of which afterwards ) but they tell them , it was no new thing for the western bishops to be concerned when things were out of order among them . o non praerogativam , say they , vindicamus examinis , sed consortium tamen debuit esse communis arbitrii . they did not challenge a power of calling them to account , but they thought there ought to be a mutual correspondence for the general good , and therefore they received maximus his complaint of his hard usage at constantinople . will any hence infer , that this council or st. ambrose had a superiour authority over the patriarch of constantinople ? so that neither consultations , advices , references , nor any other act which depends upon the will of the parties , and are designed onely for a common good , can prove any true patriarchal power . which being premised , let us now see what evidence is produced from hence for the pope's patriarchal power over the western churches . and the main thing insisted upon is , p the bishop of rome 's appointing legates in the western churches to hear and examine causes , and to report them . and of this , the first instance is produced of the several epistles of popes to the bishops of thessalonica in the roman collection . of which a large account hath been already given : and the first beginning of this was after the council of sardica had out of a pique to the eastern bishops and jealousie of the emperour allow'd the bishop of rome the liberty of granting a re-hearing of causes in the several provinces ; which was the pretence of sending legates into them ; and this was the first considerable step that was made towards the advancing the pope's power over the western churches . for a present q doctour of the sorbon confesseth , that in the space of years , i. e. to the sardican council , no one instance can be produced of any cause , wherein bishops were concerned , that was ever brought to rome by the bishops that were the iudges of it . but if the pope's patriarchal power had been known before , it had been a regular way of proceeding from the bishops in provincial synods to the patriarch . and withall , he saith , before that council no instance can be produced of any iudges delegates for the review of iudgment passed in provincial synods : and whatever privilege or authority was granted by the council of sardica to the bishop of rome , was wholly new , and had no tradition of the church to justifie it ; and was not then received either in the eastern or western churches . so that all the pleas of a patriarchal power , as to the bishop of rome , with respect to greater causes must fall very much short of the council of nice . as to the instance of marcianus of arles , that hath been answered already ; and as to the deposition of bishops in england by the pope's authority in later times , it is of no importance , since we do not deny the matter of fact , as to the pope's vsurpations ; but we say , they can never justifie the exercise of a patriarchal power over these churches by the rules established in the council of nice . but it is said , that the council of arles , before that of nice , attributes to the bishop of rome , majores dioceses , i. e. according to de marca , all the western churches ; but in answer to this , i have already shew'd how far the western bishops at arles were from owning the pope's patriarchal power over them , because they do not so much as desire his confirmation of what had passed in council ; but onely send the canons to him to publish them . but our authour and christianus lupus say , that such is the patriarch's authority , that all acts of bishops in council are in themselves invalid without his sentence , which onely gives life and vigour to them ; as they prove by the patriarch of alexandria . but if the bishop of rome were then owned to be patriarch over seven or eight dioceses of the west , according to de marca's exposition ; how came they to sit and make canons , without the least mention of his authority ? so that either they must deny him to be patriarch , or they must say he was affronted in the highest manner by the western bishops there assembled . but as to the expression of majores dioceses , it is very questionable , whether in the time of the council of arles , the distribution of the empire by constantine into dioceses were then made , and it seems probable not to have been done in the time of the council of nice , dioceses not being mentioned there , but onely provinces ; and if so , this place must be corrupt in that expression , as it is most certain it is in others ; and it is hard to lay so great weight on a place that makes no entire sense . but allowing the expression genuine , it implies no more than that the bishop of rome had then more extensive dioceses than other western bishops ; which is not denied , since even then he had several provinces under his immediate government , which no other western bishop had . (r) st. basil's calling the bishop of rome , chief of the western bishops , implies nothing but the dignity of his see , and not any patriarchal power over the western churches . it must be a degree of more than usual subtilty to infer damasus his patriarchal power over the west , s because st. jerome joins damasus and the west together , as he doth peter and egypt : therefore damasus had the same power over the west which peter had over egypt . it seems st. jerome's language about the different hypostases , did not agree with what was used in the syrian churches , and therefore some charged him with false doctrine ; he pleads for himself , that the churches of egypt , and the west , spake as he did , and they were known then neither to favour arianism nor sabellianism ; and , to make his allegation more particular , he mentions the names of the patriarch of alexandria and the bishop of rome . but a cause extremely wants arguments which must be supported by such as these . if t st. augustine makes innocent to preside in the western church ; he onely thereby shews the order and dignity of the roman see ; but he doth not own any subjection of the western churches to his power , since no church did more vehemently withstand the bisho● of rome's incroachments than the churches of africa did in st. augustine's time ; as is notorious in the business of appeals , which transaction is a demonstration against his patriarchal power over the african churches . and the bishop of rome never insisted on a patriarchal right , but on the nicene canons wherein they were shamefully baffled . it cannot be denied that u pope innocent , in his epistle to decentius eugubinus , would bring the western churches to follow the roman traditions , upon this pretence , that the churches of italy , gaul , spain , africa , sicily , and the islands lying between , were first instituted either by such as were sent by st. peter or his successours . but whosoever considers that epistle well , will not for innocent's sake lay too much weight upon it . for , is it reasonable to think , that the double vnction , the saturday fast , the eulogiae sent to the several parishes in rome were apostolical traditions which all the western churches were bound to observe , because they were first planted by those who were sent from rome ? but the matter of fact is far from being evident , for we have great reason to believe , there were churches planted in the western parts , neither by st. peter nor by those who were sent by his successours . yet let that be granted ; what connexion is there between receiving the christian doctrine at first by those who came from thence , and an obligation to be subject to the bishops of rome in all their orders and traditions ? the patriarchal government of the church was not founded upon this , but upon the ancient custome and rules of the church ; as fully appears by the council of nice . and therefore the churches of milan and aquileia though in italy , the churches of africa though probably the first preachers came from rome , never thought themselves bound to follow the traditions or observe the orders of the roman church , as is very well known both in st. cyprian's and st. augustine's times . but if the pope's power be built on this ground , what then becomes of the churches of illyricum ? was the gospel brought thither from rome ? and , as to the british churches , this very plea of innocent will be a farther evidence of their exemption from the roman patriarchate ; since britain cannot be comprehended within those islands which lie between italy , gaul , spain , africa and sicily , which can onely be understood of those islands which are situate in the mediterranean sea. and if no instance can be produced of the bishop of rome's patriarchal jurisdiction over the british churches , why should not we claim the same benefit of the nicene canons which leo urges so vehemently in such a parallel case ? neither can it be said , that afterwards , subjection and consent makes a just patriarchal power ; for neither doth it hold as to the british churches , whose bishops utterly refused to submit to augustine the monk ; and if it doth , all the force of leo's arguments is taken away . for there were both prescription pleaded , and a consent of the bishops of the dioceses concerned in the council of chalcedon . but leo saith , the nicene canons are beyond both these , being dictated by the spirit of god , and passed by the common consent of the christian church ; and that it was a sin in him to suffer any to break them . either this is true or false . if false , how can the pope be excused who alledged it for true ? if true , then it holds as much against the bishop of rome as the bishop of constantinople . and as to the prescription of years , he saith , the canons of nice were before , and ought to take place , if the practice had been never so constant , which he denies . nay , he goes so far as to say , though the numbers of bishops be never so great that give their consent to any alteration of the nicene canons , they signifie nothing , and cannot bind . nothing can be more emphatical or weighty to our purpose than these expressions of pope leo , for securing the privileges of our churches , in case no patriarchal power over them can be proved before the council of nice . and it is all the reason in the world , that those who claim a jurisdiction should prove it , especially when the acts of it are so notorious that they cannot be conceal'd ; as the consecration of metropolitanes , and matters of appeals are , and were too evident in latter times , when all the world knew what authority and jurisdiction the pope exercised over these churches . i conclude this with that excellent sentence of pope leo , privilegia ecclesiarvm sanctorvm patrvm canonibvs institvta , et venerabilis nicaenae synodi fixa decretis , nvlla possvnt improbitate convelli nvlla novitate violari . the privileges of churches which were begun by the canons of the holy fathers and confirmed by the council of nice can neither be destroy'd by wicked usurpation nor dissolved by the humour of innovation . in the next great council of sardica , which was intended to be general by the two emperours constans and constantius , it is commonly said , that (w) athanasius expresly affirms the british bishops to have been there present . but some think this mistake arose from looking no farther than the latin copy in athanasius , in which indeed the words are plain enough to that purpose ; but the sense in the greek seems to be the same . for athanasius pleads his own innocency from the several judgments which had passed in his favour . first , by bishops in egypt ; next , by above bishops at rome ; thirdly , in the great council at sardica , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in which , as some say , above bishops out of the several provinces there mention'd consented to his innocency . but here lies an insuperable difficulty , for * athanasius himself elsewhere affirms , that there were but bishops in all there present : and therefore it is impossible he should make there present . which some have endeavour'd to reconcile , by saying , the latter was the true number present ; but the former of those bishops scattered up and down who did agree in the sentence which passed in favour of athanasius : but then the greek here cannot be understood of those present in council ; and , on the other side , if it be not so understood , then the words do not prove what he designs , viz. that he was acquitted in the sardican council ; in which , although the number were not so great , i see no reason to exclude the british bishops . it is true , that in the (x) synodical epistle of that council , onely italy , spain and gaul are mention'd ; and so likewise in the (y) subscriptions . but it is well observed by (z) bucherius , that athanasius reckons up the british bishops among those of gaul . and (a) hilary , writing to the gallican bishops of germania prima and germania secunda , belgica prima , belgica secunda , lugdunensis prima , lugdunensis secunda , provincia aquitanica and provincia novem populona ; after he hath distinctly set down these , he then immediately adds , and to the bishops of the provinces of britain . which makes me apt to think , that about that time the bishops of britain were generally joyn'd with those of gaul , and are often comprehended under them where they are not expresly mention'd . and , to confirm this , (b) sulpicius severus , speaking of the summons to the council of ariminum , mentions onely of these western parts italy , spain and gaul ; but afterwards saith , that the bishops of britain were there present . so that britain was then comprehended under gaul , and was so understood at that time ; as sicily was under italy , as (c) sirmondus shews . and sextus rufus doth put down the description of britain under that of gaul , as (d) berterius hath observed . for otherwise , who could have thought that athanasius had meant the bishops of britain , when he reckons up onely the provinces of gaul ? but he declared that they were present with the gallican bishops . but it hath been urged with great appearance of reason , that since the british bishops were present at the council of sardica , the british churches were bound to observe the canons of it ; and appeals to the bishop of rome being there established , they were then brought under his jurisdiction , as patriarch of the western churches . to give a clear account of this , we must examine the design and proceedings of that council . the occasion whereof was this ; athanasius , bishop of alexandria , being deposed for some pretended misdemeanours by two synods of eastern bishops , and finding no redress there , by the prevalency of the arian faction , makes application to the western bishops , and to julius bishop of rome , as the chief of them , and earnestly desires that his cause might be heard over again , bringing great evidence from the bishops of egypt and other places , that he never had a fair hearing , but was run down by the violence of the eusebian party at tyre and antioch . the bishop of rome communicating this with the western bishops , as at large appears by julius his epistle in athanasius , he , in their name as well as his own , sends to the eastern bishops , that this cause might be heard before indifferent judges : and to that end , that they would come into these parts , and bring their evidences with them . this they decline ; upon which , and a fuller examination of the matter , they receive athanasius , marcellus and others into communion with them . this gives a mighty distaste to the eastern bishops ; at last the two brothers , constantius and constans , agree , there should be a general council called at sardica , to hear and determine this matter . the bishops meet ; but the western bishops would have the restored bishops admitted to communion , and sit in council ; this the eastern bishops utterly refuse ; and upon that withdrew to philippopolis ; and declare against their proceedings at sardica , as repugnant to the nicene canons : the western bishops continued sitting , and made new canons to justifie their own proceedings . this is the true state of the matter of fact ; as far as i can gather it out of the authentick writings on both sides . for the one side insists upon the justice of re-hearing a cause , wherein there was so great suspicion of soul dealing ; and the other , that the matters which concerned their bishops , were not to be tried over again by others at a distance ; and that this was the way to overthrow the discipline of the church , as it had been settled by the council of nice and the ancient canons of the church . it is apparent by the synodical epistle of the greek bishops who withdrew to philippopolis . that this was the main point insisted on by them ; that it was the bringing a new law into the church ; for the eastern bishops to be judged by the western ; the ancient custome and rule of the church being ; that they should stand or fall by their own bishops . the western bishops on the other side pleaded , that this was a cause of common concernment to the whole church ; that there had been notorious partiality in the management of it ; that athanasius was condemned , not for any pretended miscarriages so much , as for his zeal against arianism ; that the cause was not heard in egypt , where he was charged , but at a great distance , and therefore in common justice , it ought to have a new hearing by the eastern and western bishops together . but the eastern bishops finding that the western would not forsake the communion of athanasius and the rest , they look'd on the cause as prejudged , and so went away . however the other proceeded to the clearing the bishops accused , which they did by a synodical epistle , and then made several canons , as against translations from mean bishopricks to better , can. . and using arts to procure them , can. . against placing bishops in such places where a single presbyter would serve , and the absence of bishops at consecrations , can. . against their unseasonable applications to the court , can. , , , . against being made bishops per saltum , can. . against their non-residence , can. , . against receiving those who were excommunicated by others , can. . about the appeal of presbyters , can. . against taking presbyters out of anothers diocese , can. . against their non-residence , can. . about the reception of banished bishops , can. . about eutychianus and musaeus , and the persons ordained by them , can. , . but the main canons of this council are the third , fourth and fifth , which concern the re-hearing of the causes of bishops ; and the interest the bishop of rome was to have therein . for the right understanding whereof we are to consider the several steps and methods of proceeding therein established . ( . ) that the causes of bishops in the first instance were still to be heard and determin'd by the bishops of the province ; that is plain by the first part of can. . which forbids any bishop in case of difference with another , to call bishops out of a neighbour province to hear it . this was agreeable to the nicene can. . herein it is supposed that they reflect on the council of antioch's proceedings against athanasius ; but the council of antioch did not proceed upon st. athanasius in the first instance , but upon this ground , viz. that being deposed in the council of tyre , he afterwards returned to the bishoprick of alexandria , without being first restored by a greater synod . but this seems to have been very hard usage of so great a man ; for they first made the canons themselves , can. , . and out of them they framed an article , by virtue whereof they deprived athanasius . and herein lay the art of the eusebian party , for if they had framed the canon so as it is extant in (e) palladius , it would never have passed the council ; for it was not a council of mere arians , as is commonly thought , but of many (f) orthodox bishops , together with them who in some things were overreached by the artifices of the eusebian party ; and they did not meet purposely against athanasius ; but (g) bishops were summon'd by the emperour to meet at the solemn dedication of the great church at antioch called dominicum aureum ; (h) as they had done before on the like occasion at jerusalem ; and (i) eusebius saith , such assemblies of bishops were frequent at such times . these , being met together , framed several canons , for the better ordering and government of the churches , out of which , being passed by general consent , the eusebians , who hated athanasius , framed sufficient articles against him . for , by the fourth canon , if a bishop , being deposed by a synod , doth officiate , he is never to be restored ; by the twelfth , if a bishop deposed , makes application to the emperour , and not to a greater council of bishops , he is not to be restored . but now athanasius , being deposed by the tyrian synod , was restored upon his application to the emperour , without any synod called to that end , and did execute his office as bishop of alexandria ; and for this reason , the council of antioch confirmed his deposition . a (k) late authour goes about to prove , that the canon against athanasius did not pass the council of antioch , but that it passed an assembly of eusebians , when the rest were gone : but this is incredible ( as (l) baronius his conceit is ridiculous , who takes the mansions that antioch was distant from alexandria for arian bishops ) and there is no testimony of antiquity to prove it . but there is no reason to imagine any other canon against athanasius besides these two , for they effectually did his business . that which palladius saith , that in the canon it was said , whether the bishop were deposed justly or unjustly is very improbable ; but that which gave occasion for him to say so was , because the ancient canon called apostolical . had in it the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , justly , which they left out , the better to effect their design ; that so the merits of the cause might not be enquired into . but there was an errour in the first instance committed , not by the council of antioch , but by that of tyre ; unless the extraordinary summons of that council by the emperour's command , as (m) eusebius saith , be a dispensation , as to the regular proceedings in common cases ; but there was scarce any thing regular in the proceeding of that council ; for , according to the rules of the church , this cause ought to have been heard in egypt , by the bishops there ; and they justly complain of the neglect of this in their (n) synodical epistle ; and (o) liberius made a reasonable proposition to constantius ; that a council might be summoned at alexandria ; that this cause , which had given so much disturbance , should be heard upon the place , all parties being present . which was the best expedient at last ; but the most natural way was to have begun there ; and therefore the sardican council did very well to reduce the nicene canon about proceeding within the province in the first instance . ( . ) if the party be grieved at the sentence passed against him , then that there be a re-hearing of it granted , can. . this the council of antioch allow'd can. . by a greater synod of bishops , but takes away all hopes of restitution from him that made his appeal to the emperour . the meaning of the canon is , not to exclude an address for a greater synod ; but an appeal , to have the emperour reverse the sentence , without any farther hearing by another assembly of bishops . so that the final resort was hereby settled in a greater council , from which no appeal should lie . this canon is supposed to be particularly design'd against athanasius ; but i do not find that he made application to the emperour to be restored with a non-obstante to the sentence of the tyrian council ; but to have a more indifferent hearing by another council . so the bishops of egypt testify in their synodical epistle extant in athanasius ; but their proceeding against him at antioch was , because after this he took possession of his see without another sentence of a greater synod ; but the great difficulty is , to reconcile this canon with the fifteenth of the same council , which takes away all liberty of appeal from the unanimous sentence of a provincial synod . (p) petrus de marca , a man of more than ordinary sagacity in these matters , was sensible of this appearance of contradiction ; and he solves it thus , that no appeal is allow'd from a provincial synod , can. . but notwithstanding , by can. . there is a liberty of proceeding by way of petition to the emperour , for a re-hearing the cause by a greater synod . and in this case the emperour was to be judge , whether it were fit to grant another hearing or not , and although by this canon , in the case of a general consent , no neighbour bishop could be called in ; as they might in case of difference by can. . yet if the emperour thought they proceeded partially , he might either join bishops of another province with them , or call a more general council out of the province , as constantine did at tyre . this was the undoubted right of the emperours , to call together assemblies of bishops for what causes they thought expedient . but (q) socrates expresly saith , that no appeal was allow'd by the canons of the church ; for speaking of cyrill of jerusalem's being deposed , he saith , he appealed to a greater court of judicature , which appeal constantius allow'd ; but then he adds , that he was the first and onely person who , contrary to the custome and canons of the church , made such an appeal . h. valesius contradicts socrates , because of the appeal of the donatists to constantine from the council of arles . but this is nothing to the purpose ; for the actions of the donatists were not regarded ; and besides , their appeal was to constantine , to hear the cause himself ; but here cyrill appealed to a greater number of bishops , according to the canon of antioch . and then appear'd at the council of seleucia to have his cause heard . (r) baronius is much puzzled with this expression of socrates , because it would take away appeals to the pope ; but the eastern bishops never understood any such thing ; and cyrill made his appeal to a greater synod . the canons of sardica , which baronius quotes , were not received and scarce known in the eastern church . athanasius fled to the western bishops , because he was so ill used in the east , not because of any authority in the bishop of rome to receive appeals . but cyrill went according to the canons of antioch , making application to constantius to be heard , by a greater synod . (s) sozomen saith , that constantius recommended the cause of cyrill to the council of ariminum ; but that cannot be , since (t) he expresly forbad the western bishops in that council to meddle with the causes of the eastern bishops ; and declares , whatever they did in that matter should have no effect . therefore the council to which constantius referred this cause , must be that of seleucia , which was assembled at the same time . which seeming to take off from the right of provincial synods established in the council of nice , socrates condemns as uncanonical , and saith , he was the first that proceeded in this method of seeking to the emperour for a greater council . but then , ( . ) the council of sardica made an innovation in this matter . for although it allows the liberty of a re-hearing , yet it seems to take away the power of granting it from the emperour , as far as in them lay , and gives it to julius , bishop of rome , for the honour of st. peter ; and , if he thought sit , he was to appoint the neighbour bishops of the province to hear it , and such assessours as the emperour was wont to send . to which was added , can. . that no bishop should enter into the vacant bishoprick upon a deposition , and application for a new hearing ; till the bishop of rome had given sentence in it : but then , can. . it is said , that if the cause be thought fit to be re-heard , letters are to be sent from him to the neighbour bishops to hear and examine it . but if this do not satisfie , he may doe as he sees cause . which i take to be the full meaning of can. . and this is the whole power which the council of sardica gives to the bishop of rome . concerning which we are to observe , ( . ) that it was a new thing ; for if it had been known before , that the supreme judgment in ecclesiastical causes lay in the bishop of rome , these canons had been idle and impertinent . and there is no colour in antiquity for any such judicial power in the bishop of rome , as to re-hearing of causes of deposed bishops before these canons of sardica ; so that (v) petrus de marca was in the right , when he made these the foundation of the pope's power . and if the right of appeal be a necessary consequent from the pope's supremacy ; then the non-usage of this practice before , will overthrow the claim of supremacy . in extraordinary cases , the great bishops of the church were wont to be advised with ; as st. cyprian , as well as the bishop of rome , in the cases of basilides and marcianus ; but if such instances prove a right of appeals , they will doe it as much for the bishop of carthage as of rome . but there was no standing authority peculiar to the bishop of rome given or allow'd before this council of sardica . and the learned publisher of (w) leo's works hath lately proved at large , that no one appeal was ever made from the churches of gaul , from the beginning of christianity there to the controversie between leo , and hilary of arles , long after the council of sardica . but such an authority being given by a particular council upon present circumstances , as appears by mentioning julius bishop of rome , cannot be binding to posterity , when that limited authority is carried so much farther , as to be challenged for an absolute and supreme power founded upon a divine right , and not upon the act of the council . for herein the difference is so great , that one can give no colour or pretence for the other . ( . ) that this doth not place the right of appeals in the bishop of rome , as head of the church ; but onely transfers the right of granting a re-hearing from the emperour to the bishop of rome . and whether they could doe that or not is a great question ; but in all probability constantius his openly favouring the arian party was the occasion of it . ( . ) that this can never justifie the drawing of causes to rome by way of appeal ; because the cause is still to be heard in the province , by the neighbour bishops , who are to hear and examine all parties , and to give iudgment therein . ( . ) that the council of sardica it self took upon it to judge over again a cause which had been judged by the bishop of rome , viz. the cause of athanasius and his brethren . which utterly overthrows any opinion in them , that the supreme right of judicature was lodged in the bishop of rome . ( . ) that the sardican council cannot be justified by the rules of the church , in receiving marcellus into communion . for not onely the eastern bishops in their synodical epistle say , that he was condemned for heresie by the council at constantinople in constantine 's time , and that protogenes of sardica and others of the council had subscribed to his condemnation ; but (x) athanasius himself afterwards condemned him ; and (y) st. basil blames the church of rome for admitting him into communion : and (z) baronius confesses , that this brought a great disreputation upon this council , viz. the absolving one condemned for heresie , both before and after that absolution . ( . ) that the decrees of this council were not universally received , as is most evident by the known contest between the bishops of rome and africa about appeals . if these canons had been then received in the church , it is incredible that they should be so soon forgotten in the african churches ; for there were but two bishops of carthage , restitutus and genethlius between gratus and aurelius . (a) christianus lupus professes he can give no account of it . but the plain and true account is this , there was a design for a general council ; but the eastern and western bishops parting so soon , there was no regard had by the whole church to what was done by one side or the other . and so little notice was taken of their proceedings , that (b) st. augustine knew of no other than the council of the eastern bishops ; and even (c) hilary himself makes their confession of faith to be done by the sardican council . and the calling of councils was become so common then , upon the arian controversies ; and the deposition of bishops of one side and the other were so frequent , that the remoter churches very little concerned themselves in what passed amongst them . thence the acts of most of those councils are wholly lost , as at milan , sirmium , arles , beziers , &c. onely what is preserved in the fragments of hilary , and the collections of athanasius , who gathered many things for his own vindication . but as to these canons , they had been utterly forgotten , if the see of rome had not been concerned to preserve them ; but the sardican council , having so little reputation in the world ; the bishops of that see endeavoured to obtrude them on the world , as the nicene canons . which was so inexcusable a piece of ignorance or forgery , that all the tricks and devices of the advocates of that see , have never been able to defend . chap. iv. of the faith and service of the british churches . the faith of the british churches enquired into . the charge of arianism considered . the true state of the arian controversie , from the council of nice to that of ariminum . some late mistakes rectified . of several arian councils before that of ariminum . the british churches cleared from arianism after it . the number and poverty of the british bishops there present . of the ancient endowment of churches before constantine . the privileges granted to churches by him . the charge of pelagianism considered . pelagius and celestius both born in these islands . when aremorica first called britain . what sort of monk pelagius was . no probability of his returning to britain . of agricola and others spreading the pelagian doctrine in the british churches . germanus and lupus sent by a council of gallican bishops hither to stop it . the testimony of prosper concerning their being sent by coelestine consider'd . of fastidius a british bishop . london the chief metropolis in the roman government . of faustus originally a britain . but a bishop in gaul . the great esteem he was in . of the semipelagians and praedestinatians . of the schools of learning set up here by the means of germanus and lupus . dubricius and iltutus the disciples of st. german . the number of their scholars , and places of their schools . of the monastery of banchor , and the ancient western monasteries , and their difference , as to learning , from the benedictine institution of gildas his iren , whether an vniversity in britain . of the schools of learning in the roman cities , chiefly at rome , alexandria and constantinople , and the professours of arts and sciences , and the publick libraries there . of the schools of learning in the provinces , and the constitution of gratian to that purpose : extending to britain . of the publick service of the british churches ; the gallican offices introduced by st. german . the nature of them at large explained , and their difference from the roman offices , both as to the morning and communion service . the conformity of the liturgy of the church of england to the ancient british offices , and not derived from the church of rome , as our dissenters affirm . the succession of the british churches being thus deduced from their original to the times of the christian emperours , it will be necessary to give an account of the faith and service which were then received by them . and it is so much the more necessary to enquire into the faith of the british churches , because they are charged with two remarkable heresies of those times , viz. arianism and pelagianism ; and by no less authority than that of (a) gildas and (b) bede . the charge of arianism is grounded upon the universal spreading of that heresie over the world , as bede expresses it , and therefore to shew how far the british churches were concerned , we must search into the history of that heresie , from the council of nice to the council of ariminum , where the british bishops were present . it is confidently affirmed by a late (c) writer , that the arian faction was wholly supprest by the nicene council , and all the troubles that were made after that were raised by the eusebians , who were as forward as any to anathematize the arians , and all the persecutions were raised by them , under a pretence of prudence and moderation ; that they never in the least appear'd after the council of nice in behalf of the arian doctrine , but their whole fury was bent against the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and athanasius ; that in the times of constantius and constans the cause of arius was wholly laid aside by both parties , and the onely contest was about the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; that the eusebian cause was not to restore arianism , but to piece up the peace of the church by comprehending all in one communion , or by mutual forbearance . but if it be made appear , that the arian faction was still busie and active after the nicene council ; that the contest about 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was with a design to overthrow the nicene faith ; that the eusebians great business was , if possible , to restore arianism ; then it will follow , that some mens hatred of prudence and moderation is beyond their skill and judgment in the history of the church : and the making out of these things will clear the history of arianism to the council of ariminum . but , before i come to the evidence arising from the authentick records of the church , it will not be unpleasant to observe , that this very writer is so great an enemy to the design of reconcilers , that it is hardly possible , even in this matter , to reconcile him to himself . for , he tells us , that the most considerable eusebians in the western churches , viz. valens , ursacius , and their associates had been secret arians all along ; that the word substance was left out of the third sirmian creed , to please valens and his party ; who , being emboldned by this creed whereby they had at length shaken off all the clogs that had been hitherto fasten'd on them to hinder their return to arianism , moved , at the council at ariminum , that all former creeds might be abolished , and the sirmian creed be established for ever . doth this consist with the arian factions being totally supprest by the council of nice , and none ever appearing in behalf of the arian doctrine after ; and the eusebians never moving for restoring arianism , but onely for a sort of comprehension and toleration ? in another place he saith , (d) the eusebians endeavoured to supplant the nicene faith , though they durst not disown it . and was the arian faction then totally supprest while the eusebians remained ? these are the men whom he calls the old eusebian knaves ; and for the acacians , he saith , when they had got the mastery , they put off all disguise , and declared for arianism . is it possible for the same person to say , that after the nicene council , they never appeared in behalf of the arian doctrine in the eastern and western churches ; and yet , when they put off their disguise , they declared for arianism ? what is this but appearing openly and plainly for the arian doctrine ? and if we believe so good an authour as himself , their contest after the council of nice was so far from being merely about the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that he frequently saith , that controversie did take in the whole merits of the cause , as will appear from his own words in several places . as when he speaks of the council of nice , he saith , the whole controversie was reduced to the word consubstantial ; which the eusebians at first refused to admit , as being no scripture word , but without its admission , nothing else would satisfie the council , and good reason they had for it , because to part with that word after the controversie was once raised , would have been , to give up the cause ; for it was unavoidable , that if the son were not of the same substance with the father , he must have been made out of the same common and created substance with all other creatures ; and therefore when the scriptures give him a greater dignity of nature than to any created being , they thereby make him of the same uncreated substance with the father ; so that they plainly assert his consubstantiality , though they use not the word . but when the truth itself was denied by the arian hereticks and the son of god thrust down into the rank of created beings , and defined to be a creature made of nothing , it was time for the church to stop this heresie , by such a test as would admit of no prevarication ; which was effectually done by this word ; and , as cunning and shuffling as the arians were , they were never able to swallow or chew it , and therefore it was but a weak part of the eusebians to shew so much zeal against the word , when they professed to allow the thing ; for if our saviour were not a mere creature , he must be of the same uncreated substance with the father , because there is no middle between created and uncreated substance ; so that whoever denied the consubstantiality could not avoid the heresie of paulus samosatenus , which yet the arians themselves professed to defie ; for if he were a mere creature , it is no matter how soon , or how late he was created . and therefore it is not be imagined that the eusebians should really believe the consubstantiality of the son , and yet so vehemently oppose the use of the word . would any men of common sense , who did believe the bread and wine in the eucharist to be turned into the very body and bloud of christ , set themselves with all their force and interest to overthrow the term of transubstantiation ? so , if the eusebians did believe the son of the same substance with the father , to what purpose should they caball so much as they did all the reign of constantius , to lay aside the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; if it be said , it was by way of comprehension , to take in dissenting parties : then it is plain they were really dissenting parties still , and consequently did not differ onely about the vse of a word ; but about the substance of the doctrine . and as those who do believe the doctrine of transubstantiation , are for the vse of the word ; and those who believe it not , would not have the word imposed ; so it was in all the councils under constantius , those who chiefly opposed the word consubstantial , did it , because they liked not the doctrine ; and those who contended for it , did it , because they knew the doctrine was aimed at under the pretence of laying aside an unscriptural word . and the same author tells us from st. hilary , the consequence of shutting out the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was , that it must be decreed either that the son was a creature made out of nothing , or out of another substance uncreated and distinct from the divine nature . and when he gives an account of the council of seleucia , held at the same time with that of ariminum , he saith , they brake into two parties , of the acacians , who defied the council of nice and all its decrees , and the old eusebians , who pretended to stick onely at the word consubstantial : and upon their appeal to the emperour , there are these two things remarkable . . that those who were for laying aside all discriminating words were arians of the highest sort , viz. aëtians , who held the blasphemy of dissimilitude . . that those who were for retaining the word substance went on this ground , that if god the son exist neither from nothing nor from any other substance , then he must be of the same substance with the father . which was the very argument , he saith , approved by the council of nice for settling the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . this is a sufficient argument to me , that those who from the council of nice did chiefly oppose that word , did it with a design to overthrow the doctrine of the son 's being of the same substance with the father . which will more fully appear by a brief deduction of the arian history from the council of nice to that of ariminum ; not from modern collections , but from the best writers about that time . the arian faction finding themselves so much overvoted in the council of nice , that they despaired to carry any thing there by fair means ; betook themselves to fraudulent arts , hoping thereby to hinder either the passing or the executing any decree against them . at first , they endeavoured to blind and deceive the council by seeming to profess the orthodox faith , but they made use of such ambiguous forms of words as might serve their ends , by couching an heretical sense under a fair appearance of joining in the same faith with the rest . (e) (f) this being discovered by the more sagacious defenders of the old christian faith , they at length fixed upon the term 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the onely effectual test to discriminate the arians from others ; and when they had used their utmost skill and endeavour to keep this test from passing , and found they could not prevail , they bethought themselves of another way to keep the faction alive , although the heresie might seem at present to be totally supprest . and that was , by suffering arius and his two fast friends , secundus and theonas , to be condemned by the council , and to be banished by the emperour ; but the chief heads of the faction , eusebius of nicomedia and theognis of nice , with others , resolved upon an expedient to clear themselves , and yet to keep up the faction ; which was , by subscribing the confession of faith , and denying to anathematize arius and his followers . this is plain from the epistle of eusebius and theognis , extant in (g) socrates and (h) sozomen , wherein they own their subscription to the decree of faith , but declare , that they utterly refused to subscribe the anathema against arius and his adherents ; because they did not believe them guilty of the heresie charged upon them ; as they found both by writing and conversation with them . this epistle was written by them during their banishment , in order to their return to their bishopricks , from which they had been driven by constantine's own order ; and the reason of it is given is his epistle to the church of nicomedia , viz. (i) for communicating with the arians whom he had caused to be removed from alexandria for their heresie and disturbance of the peace of the church there ; and the same account is given of it in the synodical epistle of the bishops of egypt extant in (k) athanasius . which shews their resolution to keep up the faction in spite of the council of nice : for if they had any regard to the decree there past , they would not have presumed to have communicated with those who were expresly anathematized by the council ; and had very hardly escaped it themselves , as constantine there upbraids them in his epistle . but , upon this notorious contempt , they were deposed from their bishopricks , and sent into banishment ; where they grew very uneasie , and resolved upon any terms to be restored ; knowing that if they continued there , the faction was indeed in danger to be wholly supprest : and , for that end , they wrote that submissive letter to the leading bishops , promising an universal compliance upon their restauration . and the main ground they built their hopes upon , was , because arius himself upon his submission was recalled ; as they declare in the end of that epistle . which intrigue was carried on by (l) (m) a secret arian , chaplain to constantia , the emperour's sister , recommended to the emperour at her death ; who , being received into favour , whisper'd into his ear very kind things concerning arius and his adherents ; adding , that they were unjustly banished , and that the whole controversie was nothing but a pique which the bishop of alexandria had taken against one of his presbyters , for having more wit and reputation than himself ; and that it would become constantine , in point of honour and justice , to recall arius , and to have the whole matter examined over again . upon this , arius is sent for , and bid by the emperour to set down his confession of faith plainly and honestly ; which is extant in the ecclesiastical historians , under the name of arius and euzoius , and was framed in such a specious manner , as made the emperour believe that arius was indeed of the same mind with the nicene fathers , onely leaving out the word consubstantial . but he would not undertake to determine himself , whether he should be received into communion upon this ; but he referr'd the whole matter to the bishops then met a jerusalem ; who , faith sozomen , unanimously approved this confession of faith , and wrote a circular letter upon it for receiving arius and his adherents into communion ; notwithstanding the peremptory decree of the council of nice to the contrary . which epistle is extant in (n) athanasius , who looks on it as the first blow given to the authority of the council of nice ; and he understands it of that arius , who was author of the heresie , and not of the other arius , as some modern writers do . and here , athanasius saith , they began to open their design in favour of the arian heresie , which till then they had concealed . for they knew that work was not to be done at once ; but this was a good step towards the lessning the authority of the nicene council ; which being once removed , the faction did not question they should be able to set up arianism speedily . they were not so plain hearted to declare presently for what they aimed at ; nor to put it to the vote , whether the nicene faith should be destroyed or not . for that , having the great advantage of so publick a settlement , and such a general consent of the christian world , it was not to be overthrown at once , nor by open violence , but to be taken in pieces by degrees ; and the generality were to be cheated into arianism , under other pretences and insinuations . and the first thing was , to persuade the world , that the arians had been hitherto misunderstood , and their doctrine misrepresented by such factious and busie men as athanasius , and a few others , therefore it was absolutely necessary to weaken the authority of the council , as being influenced by a small number of men who overswayed the rest ; neither was it safe to begin with the matter of faith , for that would give too great an alarm ; but it was a much more plausible way to bring the arians into communion , as being much misrepresented and not owning the doctrines which the athanasian party did charge them with , and being once joined in communion together , it would be fit to lay aside all terms of discrimination , as tending to faction ; especially such as were lately set up , to put a distinction between the arians and others . and when these things were done by other councils , the authority of the council of nice would fall to the gound , and , as they supposed , the nicene faith together with it . but such d●signs could not be carried on so secretly and subtilly , but the wiser sort suspected what was doing , as athanasius saith ; and therefore they soon called another council at antioch , where they made vehement protestations to the contrary . we , say they , are no followers of arius ; for , being bishops , how can we follow a presbyter ? as though the world could be deceived by such pitifull reasonings . but after they declare , that they embraced none but the ancient faith , but withall confess they had received arius to communion ; and then make a profession of their faith very agreeable to that of arius and euzoius , delivered to constantine ; wherein they assert the coeternity of the son with the father , but leave out his being of the same substance . but fearing this would not give satisfaction , they added another , wherein they owned (o) the son to be god of god , lord of lord , the unchangeable image of his deity , substance , will , power and glory : but after , they express themselves more fully , when they say , they believe three distinct hypostases and an unity of consent ; which overthrows the nicene faith , it being built on the unity of substance and not of will. it cannot be denied , that the crude expressions of arius in the first heat of the controversie were here rejected , viz. that there was a time before the son was , or that he was a creature like other creatures ; for they knew these expressions would not then be born ; and therefore they were forced to refine arianism to the utmost degree , to make it pass down the better , till the prejudice against it by the council of nice were wholly removed . to which end they set forth several other confessions of faith to prevent the suspicion of what they aimed at ; but these were in the time of constantius . i return therefore to the reign of constantine , which excellent prince (p) would suffer no alteration to be made in the nicene faith in his time ; and therefore the secret arians were forced to great dissimulation and hypocrisie , and to carry on their design under other pretences . so (q) theodoret saith , that eusebius and his party outwardly complied in the council of nice out of fear ; and he applies to them the saying of the prophet , this people honoureth me with their lips , but their heart is far from me . and elsewhere he saith , (r) the arians in the council subscribed to the nicene faith , that being in sheeps clothing , they might devour like ravening wolves . (s) sozomen saith , it was reported that eusebius and theognis , after their return from banishment , corrupted the person to whom the subscriptions of the council of nice were committed , and rased out their own names ; and then openly declared against the son's being of the same substance with the father : and that even to constantine himself . but that doth not seem credible to me . it being much more probable , which (t) socrates relates , viz. that eusebius and theognis having recover'd the possession of their churches upon their return from banishment had frequent access to the emperour , who honoured them as his converts ; and under that pretext of embracing the nicene faith , did more mischief than otherwise they could have done : and so made a very great disturbance in the church : which he imputes partly to their love of arianism , and partly to their hatred of athanasius : but the latter , as athanasius at large proves , was on the account of the former . for , it being their design to introduce arianism , without owning it , next to their lessning the authority of the council of nice , the most effectual means they could think of was , by all possible arts , to blacken and render odious , those persons who most vigorously defended the nicene faith. and from hence began the great quarrel against eustathius , bishop of antioch , and athanasius . as to the former , he gives an account in the fragment of a homily extant in (u) theodoret , what shuffling the arians used in the council of nice to preserve their bishopricks ; and , for that reason , subscribed to the decree of faith ; and so , having escaped the censures they deserved , they did sometimes secretly , sometimes openly , propagate the opinions there condemned . one of their great arts , he faith , was to decline such as well understood the controversie , and made it their business to oppose them . and so eustathius himself found to his sorrow . for , eusebius of nicomedia and his party , meeting together at antioch , whom (w) theodoret expresly calls the arian faction , they there proceeded to the deposing eustathius , upon the accusation of an infamous person suborned to that purpose , and afterwards prevailed with constantine to banish him ; which being done , theodoret saith , there was a succession of bishops , who were secret arians , as of eulalius , euphronius and flaccillus ; and that was the reason the orthodox party then separated themselves , and were called eustathians . (x) socrates and (y) sozomen confess , that the quarrel about arianism was renew'd soon after the council of nice both in egypt and in bithynia , hellespont and constantinople . but socrates saith , it was begun about the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which was indeed the pretext of the quarrel , but the true ground was arianism . socrates , being a man not throughly versed in these matters , blames both sides , for contending about they knew not what ; both agreeing in the same doctrine , and yet not agrèeing among themselves . but he did not penetrate into the depth of the arians designs , as theodoret , a man of far greater judgment and learning did . and he proves from eustathius , an eminent bishop of that time , and one present in the council of nice , that arianism lay at the bottom ; and that they complied at first onely out of fear , but had the same hatred to the true faith they ever had ; but after the council they durst not so openly shew it . (z) sozomen saith , the arian party charged those who asserted christ of the same substance with the father ( as the council of nice had determined ) with sabellianism and blasphemy ; and the followers of the nicene faith charged the others with idolatry and innovation ; as asserting three distinct gods as to substance , when the council had declared the son of the same substance with the father . and he ingenuously confesseth , that it was generally believed that eustathius was deposed at antioch for adhering to the nicene faith ; and declaring himself against the arian party then prevailing in the east . who finding such success in their first attempt on eustathius , they next proceed against athanasius , the other great champion of the council of nice . they (a) had conceived an inveterate hatred against him for his great zeal and activity in that council , but their rage brake forth , after they heard that he succeeded alexander in the see of alexandria . eusebius of nicomedia was his mortal enemy , who was removed to be near the court , ( though against the canons ; ) yet he brake through all , thereby to have opportunity to fill the emperour's mind with jealousies and suspicions of all those that opposed them , and especially of athanasius . and (b) socrates gives the true reason of the great spite against athanasius , viz. that unless he were removed , there was no hopes of the arian doctrine prevailing : which he there confesses was the thing the eusebians aimed at . and now they thought such a snare was laid for athanasius , which it was hardly possible for him to escape . for , upon arius his submission , they advise constantine to send him to alexandria , there to be received by athanasius , as the onely way to put an end to all the disturbances of the church . away goes arius with the emperour's command to athanasius : who , according to their imagination , (c) refusing to admit him , being anathematized by the council , as the (d) first broacher of a dangerous heresie , they easily exasperated the good emperour against him , as a seditious and turbulent person ; and so plied him with one accusation upon another , that at last constantine sent for him to appear before him upon an information against him of no less than treasonable practices . but upon a full hearing of the matter by the emperour himself , (e) he was acquitted , and sent back with marks of his favour and vindication of his innocency ; in an epistle to the people of alexandria , part of which is extant in (f) sozomen and (g) theodoret , but at large in (h) athanasius . one would think this should have discouraged his enemies from any farther prosecution of him ; but these eusebians were men of restless , ambitious , implacable spirits , that scrupled no means to compass their ends , which they thought they could never doe , unless they could blast the reputation of athanasius . to this end , they laid a most malitious design against him . first , (i) they draw in the (k) meletian party in egypt to join with them ; who hoped to get their ends one upon the other afterwards ; but at present they were willing to join together against their common enemy ; for so athanasius was accounted by them . and (l) eusebius promised the meletians great favour at court , if they would manage the business against athanasius : which they undertook ; and by their means so many complaints were brought against athanasius to the emperour , that he was forced for the general satisfaction , to appoint a council at tyre , which was according to the eusebians desire , where things were managed with so little regard to justice or common honesty , that , after he had plainly cleared himself as to the main accusations , he yet found they were resolved to condemn him ; and therefore he privately withdrew from thence to the imperial court , to acquaint the emperour with the horrible partiality there used . upon (m) this he writes a very smart letter to them , and requires them to come speedily to him , (n) to give him an account of their violent proceedings . they send a select number of their party to court with eusebius of nicomedia in the head of them , who there quit all the accusations brought against athanasius at tyre , and start a new one which touched the emperour in a very tender part , viz. that he had threatned to hinder the bringing corn from egypt to constantinople ; which was in effect to threaten the starving his beloved city ; which nettled the emperour so much , that it transported him beyond his usual temper , and immediately he gave order for banishing athanasius into gaul . not long after constantine died , but before his death , saith (o) theodoret , he gave order for the recalling athanasius , to the great regret of eusebius of nicomedia then present . let any one now judge , whether in constantine 's time the arian faction were wholly supprest ; and whether eusebius and his party were men that onely pretended to prudence and moderation ; who made use of the most malitious , unjust , abominable means , to suppress the chiefest opposers of the arian faction ? what will not such men say to serve a turn , who dare to tell the world , that the eusebians were no less enemies to the arians than to the orthodox , and that it is a great and common mistake , that eusebius was the ringleader of the arian faction ? if it be a mistake , others have it from athanasius , and it is hard to believe that man ever read (p) athanasius his writings , who dare say the contrary . all the bishops of egypt in their synodical epistle from alexandria charge the (q) eusebians with a restlese desire to promote arianism ; and affirm , that their malitious prosecution of athanasius was for no other end ; that their councils were called with a design to overthrow that of nice , that they had written against them as arians ; that the eusebians joined with the meletians onely for the sake of arianism ; that the persons sent by the council of tyre into egypt were arians , and therefore declared enemies ; and whatever their pretences were , nothing but the advancing arianism lay at the bottom . were so many bishops guilty of so gross a mistake , who had certainly greater opportunity of knowing , and skill in judging the men and their designs than the most quick sighted person of our age can have ? it would be endless to recite all the passages in athanasius his apology , and epistles , and discourses of the councils of ariminum and seleucia , to prove that the eusebians carried on the arian design , since a great part of them is spent in the proof of it . but we are told , with confidence enough , that the synod of alexandria , in their synodical epistle , do not in the least accuse the eusebians of arianism , but onely of holding communion with them , i. e. with the arians . this cannot but seem strange to any one that will be at the pains to peruse that excellent epistle . and even in that page , it is expresly said , (r) their violent and malitious proceedings against athanasius were on purpose to discourage others from daring to oppose arianism ; and this with a particular design to introduce that heresie . could any man be thought to take so much pains to set up a doctrine they had no kindness to ? i. e. would any but secret arians endeavour to set up arianism ? unless we suppose them such tools to be made use of by others to doe their business , and then to be laid aside . but the eusebians were no such mean politicians ; for they were at the top of business , having all the advantages and opportunities to carry on their own ends ; and therefore we have all the reason in the world to conclude them secret arians , who were at so much trouble to lessen the credit of the opposers of arianism : which they lookt on as one of the most effectual means to introduce it . and although they did not openly declare themselves in behalf of the arian doctrine , after the council of nice ; which had been to hinder their own design , in the time of constantine ; yet they made use of all the methods which bad men do to carry on their ends ; viz. by false insinuations , lying pretences , and all manner of malitious proceedings against those who stood in their way ; as is most notorious in the case of athanasius . after the death of constantine we are told , that all the councils under constantius that are commonly accounted arian , have as fully and clearly condemned arianism , as the nicene council it self ; it is true , they could not digest the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; but otherwise , as for the whole scheme of arianism , they have in all their creeds anathematized it with all clearness and fulness of expression . this is somewhat strange doctrine for one who pretends to have read athanasius , who hath taken so much pains to lay open the juggling of the arian faction in all those councils ; and , one would think , by this manner of writing , such a man took a particular pleasure in contradicting him . for in his (s) book of the councils of ariminum and seleucia , he saith , none of the councils under constantius could be brought to anathematize the arian heresie , as the council of nice did . he saith , that constantius himself was an arian heretick , and that his chief design in all those councils was , to take away the force of the council of nice . he saith indeed , they were not such fools to own this , but this was the true reason of all the councils they called and the disturbance they made , to the great scandal of the christian world. nay , he saith , that in all their councils they never once mention'd the arian heresie as an evil thing : and if any heresies were mention'd , the arian was excepted , which the nicene council anathematized ; and they received with great kindness such as were known to be arians ; which is an argument that the calling these councils was not for establishing the truth , but for overthrowing the council of nice . and to shew what constantius his own mind was , he observes , that when he came to die he would be baptized by none but euzoius , who had been several times deposed for arianism ; and he there affirms , that constantius continued an arian to the last . as to the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 about which so much stir was made , he takes notice , that all the offence that was taken at it , was by the arians ; and the true cause was , because it struck at the root of their heresie . and , as to the word substance , he wonder'd they should so vehemently oppose it , when themselves confessed , the son was from the father ; for either he must be from something without him , or something within him distinct from his substance , or he must be of the substance of the father ; or they must make the word and the son to be no real substance , but mere names ; and so they did not really believe what they expressed . and he farther shews , that no other way of speaking doth sufficiently express the difference between the son of god and his creatures ; which are onely the effects of god's will. from whence he concludes , that the opposition to these terms , whatever was pretended , was from a dislike of the doctrine established in the council of nice . for if it had been a mere doubt about the signification of the words , they ought to have explained their own sense , and withall to have condemned the arian heresie . it cannot be denied that there were some who agreed in the substance of the doctrine with the council of nice , but yet disliked the term 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; as to these athanasius confesses them to be brethren ; as long as they acknowledged the son not to be a creature , nor to be from another substance distinct from the father . and among these he reckons basilius of ancyra ; whose doctrine he doth not seem to dislike , provided that to the similitude of substance in the son they add his being of the substance of the father . and in this sense the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 comes to the same with the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . there were two great arguments , these used against the term 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; the first was , that it implied a partition or division of the divine substance , as a son among men is said to be of the same substance with his father , but so , as that there is a division of the same common nature in the several individuals . to this athanasius answers , that the divine generation must not be apprehended like the humane ; but our conceptions of god must be agreeable to the divine nature ; and therefore we must not imagine the son of god to be of the substance with the father , after the same manner that the son of man is . for , as he is the son , so he is the word and wisedom of the father : and the internal word or conception in man is no divisible part of himself ; but lest the notion of word should seem to destroy his real subsistence , therefore the notion of son is added in scripture to that of word ; that we may know him to be a living word and substantial wisedom . so that when we say , the son is consubstantial to the father , we understand it not by way of division , as among bodies , but abstracting our minds from all corporeal things , we attribute this to the son of god , in a way agreeing to the divine nature , and mean by it , that he is not produced by his will as the creatures are , nor merely his son by adoption ; but that he is the true eternal son of god ; by such an emanation as splendour from light , or water from the fountain . and therefore when they interpreted the term son in a way agreeable to the divine nature , he wonders they should stick so much at the word consubstantial , which was capable of the same interpretation . the second objection was , that those who condemned the samosatenian heresie , rejected the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . in answer to this , athanasius shews , that the word was so much used and allowed in the christian church before the samosatenian heresie was heard of , that when dionysius of alexandria was accused to dionysius of rome , for rejecting it ; the council thereupon was so much concerned , that the bishop of rome wrote their sense to the bishop of alexandria about it , he returns an answer , wherein he owns all the sense contained under it , as appears by his epistle in athanasius ; but for those who opposed paulus samosatenus , he saith , they took the word in a corporeal sense , as if it implied a distinct substance from the father ; but , saith he , those who condemned the arians saw farther into this matter ; considering that it ought not to be applied to the divine nature as it is to corporeal substances ; and the son of god not being a creature , but begotten of the substance of the father ; therefore with great reason they used the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as being most proper to express the sense of the christian church against the arian heresie ; as he shews there at large . from these passages of athanasius it appears that there was a third party then in the church distinct from the nicenists and the eusebians . the former would by no means yield to any relaxation of the council of nice ; because they evidently saw that this design was carried on by those who made it their business under that pretence to introduce arianism , who were the eusebians . but there were others extremely concerned for the peace of the church , and on that account were willing to let go the term 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , hoping the doctrine might be secured by other expressions ; and this facility of theirs gave the greatest advantage to the eusebian party in all their councils , who continually almost overreached and outwitted them , under the pretence of accommodation . for by this artifice they gained their votes , and when they had them , made use of them merely to serve their own designs ; as appears by the account the historians give of the management of the arian affairs under the reign of constantius . (t) socrates saith , that immediately after the death of constantine , eusebius and theognis , the heads of the arian faction , apprehended it now to be a convenient season for them to throw down the nicene faith , and to set up arianism ; and to this purpose they endeavoured to hinder athanasius from returning to alexandria . but first they gained the eunuchs and court-favorites , then the wife of constantius himself , to embrace arianism : and so the controversie of a sudden spread into the court , camp , cities and all places of the east ; ( for the western churches continued quiet during the reign of constans , to whose share all the western provinces in a short time fell . ) after the death of alexander , bishop of constantinople , the two parties openly divided in the choice of a successour ; the one chusing paulus , and the arians , macedonius ; this nettled constantius , who coming to constantinople calls a council of arian bishops , who depose paulus , and set up eusebius of nicomedia ; who presently falls to work , going with the emperour to antioch , where , under the pretence of a dedication , as is observed in the precedent chapter , a council of ninety bishops was assembled ; but the design was , saith socrates , to overthrow the nicene faith. here they made some canons to ensnare athanasius ( of which before . ) as to the matter of faith , they durst not openly propose the nulling the council of nice ; but they gained this great point , that the matters of faith might be discussed after it , and so they set open the gate for new councils which by degrees might establish the arian heresie . (u) sozomen saith , that after the death of constantine the secret arians began to shew themselves more openly ; among whom eusebius and theognis especially bestirr'd themselves to advance arianism . he agrees with socrates as to the spreading of it in the court and elsewhere ; and in the other particulars , to the council at antioch ; but he saith , they framed their confession of faith in such ambiguous terms , that neither party could quarrel with the words . but they left out any mention of the substance of father and son , and the word consubstantial ; and so in effect overthrew the council of nice . this is that confession of faith , which the council in isauria called (w) the authentick one made at antioch in the dedication . but it was not so authentick but they thought good to alter it ; and some months after sent another to constans to explain themselves more fully ; whereby they reject those who said , the son was made of nothing or of another hypostasis , and not from god. who could imagine these to have been any other than very sound and orthodox men ? especially when three years after , they sent a larger confession of faith into the western parts for their own vindication , wherein they anathematize those who held three gods , or that christ was not god , or that he was begotten of any other substance besides god , &c. but that there was juggling under all this appears , because , as athanasius observes , they were still altering their forms ; for this again was changed several times at sirmium , before they resolved upon that which was to be carried to the council of ariminum . and although the difference in the matters of faith as delivered by them seem'd now very nice and subtile , yet they were irreconcilably set against the council of nice and all that adhered to it . which was a plain evidence that they concealed their sense under ambiguous words , or that they saw it necessary at present to seem orthodox , that so they might the better set aside the council of nice ; which being once effected , it would be an easie matter to set up arianism , which was the thing they designed . this intrigue was not discovered fully till after the council of ariminum , but was certainly carried on all along by the eusebian party , who without these artifices could never have deceived the eastern bishops , who joined with them till they more openly declared themselves in the council of seleucia ; and then the difference was not between the acacians and eusebians , as some have weakly conjectured , but between the old eusebians , who now appear'd to be arians under the name of acacius , and the followers of basilius of ancyra , who stuck chiefly at the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; of whom athanasius speaks before . now to draw in these men , and to hold them fast , who had great sway in the eastern churches , the eusebians were forced to comply in words with them , and in all probability to suffer them to draw up these creeds , provided onely that they left out the nicene decree and anathema's , which would doe their business at last . so that the eusebians were forced to the utmost dissimulation and hypocrisie , to be able to carry on the arian design in the eastern and western churches . but whatever their words and pretences were , their actions sufficiently manifested their intentions . for they set themselves with the utmost violence against all who constantly adhered to the council of nice , and openly favoured and preferr'd all the declared or secret friends to arianism . they caused athanasius to be banished a second time from alexandria , and appointed gregory in his place , who continued there , saith (x) theodoret , with great cruelty for six years , and then was murthered himself by the alexandrians ; but that seems to have been a mistake for george of cappadocia , who succeeded him . for (y) athanasius saith , he died a natural death ; but he at large describes the horrible persecution both of the clergy and laity then in egypt , who would not comply with the arians ; for his business was to set up arianism , as athanasius saith . after his death , constantius finding so little success in those violent courses , sends for athanasius with great earnestness to come to him ; and gives him free liberty to return to alexandria ; and solemnly swears to him , he would never more receive any calumnies against him ; and writes several letters on his behalf : and one very kind one to himself after the death of his brother constans , who was a true friend to athanasius ; and then his greatest enemies courted him , and begg'd his pardon for what they had done ; being forced to it by the violence of the torrent against him : and even vrsacius and valens , two warm men of the eusebian party , publickly recanted what they had done against him , without his seeking , and then anathematized the arian heresie . but this was done while constans was alive , and so great a number appeared in the western churches on his side ; but constans being dead , the eusebian party persuade constantius , to take heart once more and to try what he could doe to restore arianism ; then valens and vrsacius recant their recantation , and lay it all on the fear of constans ; and now to shew the emperour's zeal for arianism , the publick allowance is taken from athanasius and his party , and given to the arians ; and the magistrates threatned , if they did not communicate with them ; and not onely the people banished that refused , but the bishops were summoned to appear in the courts and were there told , they must immediately subscribe or lose their places . but all this while toleration was granted to all but to the followers of the council of nice . and thus all places were fill'd with tumult and disorder , and the people forced their bishops to the tribunals for fear of being punished themselves . and the reason of this violence was , because the arian heresie was so much hated by the people , and they hoped by this means to bring them to own it . heraclius , the emperour's lieutenant , declared in his name , that athanasius was to be cast out , and the churches given to the arians ; and required the people to receive such a bishop as he should send , viz. george of cappadocia , a violent arian . but the tragical account of all the persecutions , which the orthodox christians then underwent in egypt , from these men of prudence and moderation is at large set down by athanasius himself ; and in the concurrent testimony of the people of alexandria ; so that nothing seems to have been more violent and cruel in the heathen persecutions than was acted then under syrianus and heraclius in egypt . and that it was wholly for the sake of arianism , athanasius evidently proves by this argument , that if a man were guilty of never so great crimes , if he professed himself an arian , he escaped ; but if he were an opposer of arianism the greatest innocency could not protect him . but this was not the case of egypt alone , but in other places , the best qualification for a bishop was to stand well inclined to arianism ; as athanasius affirms . but otherwise , though the persons were never so well deserving ; one fault or other was found with them to cast them out : so , saith he , it was with eustathius , bishop of antioch ; a man famous for his piety and zeal , yet because he appeared against arianism , feigned accusations are brought against him , and he is ejected with his clergy , and none but favourers of arianism placed in their room ; and the like examples he brings at laodicea , tripolis , germanicia , sebustea , hadrianople and many other places ; insomuch that a considerable bishop scarce any where appear'd against arianism , but they found some pretence or other to put him out , and where they could alledge no other cause , they said , it was the pleasure of constantius . but their dealing with paulus , the bishop of constantinople , was very remarkable . he being chosen by the anti-arian party , and standing in the way of eusebius of nicomedia , whose heart was set upon that bishoprick , being so near the imperial court , he first procured paulus his banishment to pontus , then he was sent in chains to singara of mesopotamia , thence to emesa , thence to pontus , thence to cucusus , where he was at length strangled by the eusebian party , as athanasius saith , he had it from the persons there present . but although macedonius who succeeded at constantinople were of a temper violent enough , as (z) sozomen shews , yet (a) theodoret observes , that even he was expelled constantinople , because he would not hold the son of god to be a creature ; for , although he denied christ to be consubstantial with the father ; yet he asserted him to be like the father in all things , and made the holy ghost to be a creature ; by which he seem'd to deny the son to be so , and therefore could not keep the favour of the arian party , which then governed all in the eastern churches ; but yet in such a manner , as by no means , yet to declare for arianism . and therefore theodoret takes notice , that after the death of leontius , eudoxius was the first who pulled off his vizard , and declared openly for arianism ; but leontius his way was , to promote onely those in the church , he was before hand sure of , and to suffer no other to come into orders , by which means , saith he , most of the clergy were arians , and the people still continued sound in the nicene faith , till eudoxius his persecution began . this was the miserable condition of the eastern churches under the prudence and moderation of the eusebian party ; but the western churches continued quiet and very little disturbed with the arian heresie while constans lived ; who was ready , not onely to maintain the true faith in his own dominions , but to give his assistence for the relief of those who suffer'd in the eastern parts . which was the reason of the calling of the council of sardica by consent of both emperours , although that happen'd onely to widen and inlarge the breach . however the sardican council had such effect in the western parts , as to the business of athanasius , that as (b) athanasius tells constantius , valens and vrsacius , two busie factours in the arian cause , freely own the malitious intrigue that was carried on in the prosecution of him . the first council of milan is supposed by (c) petavius , to be called the same year that of sardica ended . but (d) sirmondus thinks it very improbable there should be two councils in one year ; and therefore he believes it rather to have been the year before : which is the more probable opinion . this council of milan was assembled on the occasion of several bishops there meeting to wait on the emperour constans in order to a general council , to put things in order in the christian church , which the arian faction had so much disturbed . while they were there the four eastern bishops arrived , with the long confession made at antioch , and desire the western bishops concurrence with them in it . these express their dislike of any new confession of faith , especially after the nicene ; but , since they were so free of their anathema's at the end of their confession , they desired them to make short work of it , to anathematize the arian heresie ; which they utterly refused to doe , and so discover'd the juggle of that seeming orthodox confession . this appears by liberius his epistle in the collection of church records in (e) hilary's fragments ; in which he tells constantius , that these four bishops were so far from anathematizing the arian heresie then in order to peace , that upon being pressed to doe it , they rose up in a rage and left the council . from hence the western bishops smelt their design , however cover'd over with fair pretences of peace and reconciliation . which they farther discover'd by their own legates , whom they sent into the east , who made this offer to the bishops there , that they would accept of their own terms of accommodation , provided , they would but condemn the arian heresie , which upon consultation they refused to doe . upon these plain discoveries , the western bishops could easily see through all their proposals for peace ; being onely made with a design to make them betray the faith. so that as long as constans lived the arian faction could make little or no impression on the western churches ; but he being soon after taken off by the treachery of magnentius , captain of his guards ; and the whole empire falling to constantius upon his victory over magnentius , a sudden alteration here happen'd about these matters . valens and vrsacius who had so solemnly retracted their former unjust sentence of athanasius , now lay it upon their fear of constans , and appear in the head of the arian faction , and with them , as (f) severus sulpicius saith , the two pannonia's declared for arianism . and now they having an emperour to their mind , resolve to lose no time , but carry things on with a mighty violence , and banish all who would not subscribe to the condemning athanasius . for this stale pretence must still be made use of to deceive the people and to make way for arianism ; and yet this prevailed so far , that , as hilary saith , in the preface to his fragments , the people wondred what made so many bishops go into banishment , rather than condemn one ; and the design of those fragments is , to shew that the matter of faith lay at the bottom of all this violence against athanasius . which proceeded so far ; that in the council called at arles , paulinus , bishop of triers , was for opposing the condemning athanasius , and desiring the matters of faith might first be settled , deposed by the council and banished by the emperour . and so great then was the power of fear upon them , that some of those very persons , who had clear'd athanasius at the council of sardica ; did now subscribe to his condemnation ; among whom was vincentius of capua the pope's own legate ; as athanasius himself confesses . not long after , constantius summons another council at milan ; where , (h) socrates and (i) sozomen say , above three hundred western bishops were assembled : here again the arian faction made a great outcry about athanasius ; but dionysius , bishop of milan , and eusebius of vercelles , laid open the design so far as to make the council be broken up and themselves to be banished by the emperour's edict . while the emperour continued at milan , liberius , bishop of rome , was summon'd to attend upon him there , in order to his banishment , if he did not condemn athanasius ; (k) theodoret hath preserved the most material passages that happen'd between them ; one whereof is , that if constantius really designed the peace of the church , the first thing was to be a general subscription of the nicene faith ; after which other things would more easily be composed . but this would not be hearkned to ; and so liberius was banished ; but afterwards he unworthily complied not onely to the condemnation of athanasius , but he professed his consent to the sirmian creed , as appears by his epistle in (l) hilary's fragments ; for which hilary bestows his anathema's very freely upon him . but it is of late pleaded on behalf of liberius , that he subscribed onely to the first sirmian confession in the council against photinus which was express against the arian heresie . whereas hilary ( who , i think , knew this matter somewhat better ) saith in so many words , haec est perfidia ariana , i. e. that what he subscribed , contained in it the arian heresie . but where doth hilary or any one else say , that liberius onely subscribed the first confession of sirmium , and upon that was restored ? nay , (m) sozomen saith , that constantius at first required him in terms to renounce the son 's being consubstantial to the father : but afterwards they joined together the confession against paulus samosatenus and photinus , with that of antioch at the dedication , and to these liberius subscribed . so that he struck in wholly with the arian faction which undermined the authority of the council of nice , and he betray'd the faith , if he did not renounce it . the eudoxians at antioch , he saith , gave out that both osius and liberius had renounced the nicene faith , and declared the son to be unlike the father : but liberius clear'd himself by rejecting the doctrine of the anomaeans , i. e. the open and professed arians ▪ and this vrsacius , valens and germinius then at sirmium were willing to accept of , having a farther design to carry on in these parts , which was like to be spoiled by the anomaeans appearing so openly and unseasonably in the east . and for the same reason , they were willing to call in that which hilary calls the blasphemy of osius and potamius , as being too open and giving offence to the followers of basilius of ancyra in the east . for now the emperour having banished so many bishops and struck so much terrour into the rest , thought it a convenient time to settle the church-affairs to his mind in these western parts , and to that end he summoned a general council ; but justly fearing the eastern and western bishops would no more agree now than they did before at sardica ; he appoints the former to meet at seleucia in isauria , and the latter at ariminum ; whose number , saith (n) severus sulpicius , came to above four hundred , and to the same purpose (o) sozomen . when they were assembled , valens and vrsacius acquainted them with the emperour 's good intentions in calling them together , and as the onely expedient for the peace of the church , they proposed , that all former confessions of faith should be laid aside , as tending to dissension ; and this to be universally received , which they had brought with them from sirmium ; where it was drawn up by several bishops , and approved by the emperour . upon the reading this new confession of faith , wherein the son is said to be like the father , according the scriptures , and the name of substance agreed to be wholly laid aside : the bishops at ariminum appeared very much unsatisfied ; and declared , they were for keeping to the nicene faith without alteration ; and required of the arian party there present to subscribe it , before they proceeded any farther ; which they refusing to doe , they forthwith (p) excommunicated and deposed them , and protested against all innovations in matters of faith. and of these proceedings of theirs , they send an account by several legates of their own , wherein they express their resolution to adhere to the nicene faith , as the most effectual (q) (r) (s) bar against arianism and other heresies ; and they add , that the removing of it would open the breach for heresie to enter into the church . they charge vrsacius and valens with having once been partakers of the arian heresie , and on that account thrown out of the church ; but were received in again upon their submission and recantation ; but now they say , in this council of ariminum , they had made a fresh attempt on the faith of the church , bringing in a doctrine full of blasphemies ; as it is in socrates ; but in hilary's fragments it is onely , that their faith contained multa perversae doctrinae ; which shews that they looked on the sirmian creed as dangerous and heretical . and in the same (t) fragments it appears by the acts of the council , that they proceeded against valens , vrsacius , germinius and caius as hereticks and introducers of heresie ; and then made a solemn protestation , that they would never recede from the nicene faith. their ten brethren whom they sent to constantius to acquaint him with the proceedings of the council , he would not admit to speak with him : for he was informed beforehand by the arian party how things went in the council , at which he was extremely displeased , and resolved to mortifie the bishops , so as to bring them to his will at last . he (u) sends word to the council , how much his thoughts were then taken up with his eastern expedition , and that these matters required greater freedom of mind to examine them than he had at such a time ; and so commands the legates to wait at hadrianople till his return . the council perceived by this message that his design was to weary them out , hoping at last , as o theodoret expresses it , to bring them to consent to the demolishing that bulwark which kept heresie out of the church , i. e. the authority of the council of nice . to this smart message the council returned a resolute reply , that they would not recede from their former decree ; but humbly beg leave to return to their bishopricks before winter ; being put to great hardships in that strait place . this was to let the emperour know how he might deal with them , and he sends a charge to his lieutenant , not to let them stir till they all consented . and in the mean time effectual means were used with their legates in the east to bring them to terms ; an account whereof we have in (x) hilary's fragments , which were to null all the former proceedings , and to receive those who were there deposed to communion . which being done , they were sent back to decoy the rest of the council ; who at first were very stiff , but by degrees they were so softned , that they yielded at last to the emperour 's own terms . the very instrument of their consent is extant in hilary's fragments , wherein they declare their full agreement to the laying aside the terms of substance and consubstantial in the creed : i. e. to the voiding the authority of the council of nice , which was the thing all along aimed at by the arian party . and (y) athanasius saith , it was there declared unlawfull to use the word substance or hypostasis concerning god. it is time now to consider , how far those churches can be charged with arianism , whose bishops were there present and consented to the decrees of this council . it is a noted saying of (z) st. jerome on this occasion , that the world then groaned and wondered at its being become arian . which a late authour saith , is a passage quite worn out by our innovatours . whom doth he mean by these innovatours ? the divines of the church of england , who from time to time have made use of it ? not to prove an apostasie of the catholick church from the true faith ; which no man in his wits ever dreamt of , but from hence to overthrow the pretended infallibility of general councils , or such as have been so called . and notwithstanding the opprobrious name of innovatours ( which , as we find in those of the church of rome , often belongs to those who give it to others ) it is very easie to prove , that this one instance of the council of ariminum doth overthrow not onely the pretence to the infallibility of general councils , but the absolute binding authority of any , till after due examination of the reasons and motives of their proceedings . for it is apparent by the whole series of the story , as i have faithfully deduced it , that the whole design of the arian party was to overthrow the authority of the council of nice ; which they were never able to compass by a general council till this of ariminum , agreeing as they declared with the eastern bishops . so that here was a consent both of the eastern and western churches , the council of ariminum being approved by (a) (b) (c) a council at constantinople the same year . what is now to be said , when the bishops assembled in council both in the eastern and western churches did effectually , as far as their decrees went , overthrow the nicene council ? if it be said , that the council of ariminum decreed nothing positively against the nicene faith ; we are to consider , that the reversing the decree of the nicene council was in effect overthrowing the faith thereby stablished ; and so st. hierome saith , tunc usiae nomen abolitum est , tunc nicenae fidei damnatio conclamata est . and then these words follow , ingemuit totus orbis & arianum se esse miratus est : and if nothing would ever be able to stop out the arian heresie but the nicene faith , as is confessed ; and this council took away the authority of that council , then it at least made way for the introducing heresie , and left all men to be hereticks that had a mind to be so . and so st. hierome saith , valens and vrsacius after the council boasted , that they never denied the son to be a creature , but to be like other creatures : from whence (d) st. ambrose takes it for granted , that christ's being a creature did pass for good doctrine in the council of ariminum . but we are told , that st. jerome onely complains of the world's being cheated and trepan'd into arianism by the bishops being so weakly overreached and outwitted by an handfull of arians . doth not st. jerome plainly say , the name of substance was there laid aside , and the council of nice condemned ? and could this be a mere cheat and trepan to those who were so much aware of it , as to declare at first , they would never give way to it , because they saw the danger of it ; and to renew their protestations against it , after the emperour 's severe message to them about it ? so that , whatever it was , it could be no cheat or trepan in those who made such decrees at first , deposed the arian bishops , sent such messages to the emperour as they did . which is a plain demonstration that they saw and knew what they did ; and understood the consequences of it . but they were frighted into this consent at last . i grant they were so . but what then becomes of the infallibility of councils , if mere fear can make so many bishops in council act and declare against their consciences ? if in such meetings , the persons were capable of being sway'd by any particular bias , from asserting the truth , what security can there be as to mens faith from their authority , any farther than we can be secure they were not influenced by any temporal hopes or fears ? so that we are not barely to respect the definitions of councils , but to examine the motives by which they were acted in passing those decrees ; and if it appear , they did act freely and sincerely , and deliver the general sense of the christian church , from the beginning , as it was in the case of the nicene council , then a mighty regard ought to be shewed to the decrees of it ; but if partiality , interest , fear , or any other secular motive be found to sway them in their debates and resolutions , then every particular church is at liberty to refuse their decrees , and to adhere to those of more free and indifferent councils . and this was the case here , as to the council of ariminum , if the church had been absolutely tied up to the decrees of councils , however past , there had been an utter impossibility of restoring the true christian faith ; for there was no such council assembled to reverse the decrees of it ; but in every church , the banished bishops being returned , not long after , upon the death of constantius , they took care to settle the true faith in the western churches , by lesser assemblies of the several bishops . a remarkable instance whereof appears in (e) hilary's fragments , where we find the gallican bishops met at paris , renouncing the council of ariminum , and embracing the nicene faith. the like we have reason to believe was done in the british churches , because in jovian's time , (f) athanasius particularly takes notice of the britannick churches , as adhering to the nicene faith ; and (g) st. jerome , and (h) st. chrysostome , several times mention their agreeing with other churches in the true faith. which is a sufficient argument to clear them from the imputation of arianism , which did no otherwise lie upon them , than as they had bishops present in the council of ariminum . for (i) severus sulpicius , speaking of the care constantius took to provide lodging and entertainment for the bishops at ariminum , out of the publick charge , he faith , their bishops refused to accept it , onely three out of britain , not being able to maintain themselves , made use of the publick allowance , rather than be chargeable to their brethren . which , he saith , he heard gavidius their bishop blame them for ; but he rather thinks it a commendation for them , in the first place to have been so poor ; and next , that they chose not to be burthensome to their brethren , but rather to live on the emperour's charge . this had been better said of any place , than at the council of ariminum , where the emperour's kindness was a snare to their consciences ; unless it be said , that the emperour took greater advantage by their bearing their own charges , to make them sooner grow weary of staying there ; and that if the rest had followed the example of the britains , the emperour might have been weary before them . but how came the british bishops to be so poor above the rest , who were not onely able to live at their own charges , but to supply their brethren ? which shews as much the plenty of the rest , as it doth the poverty of the britains . what became of all the endowments of the british churches by king lucius ? the british history published by (k) geffrey of monmouth saith , that king lucius gave not onely all the lands which belonged to the heathen temples to the churches built by him ; but added very much to them with many privileges . the same is said from him by most of our monkish historians , whose authority is no greater than geffrey's , from whom they derive their information ; onely inlarging it as occasion serves ; as thomas rudburn doth very particularly for the church of winchester , who makes the old lands of the flamins to be twelve miles compass about the town ; and king lucius added , he saith , to the new church , all the suburbs of the city , with the privilege of dunwallo molmutius , i. e. of a sanctuary . methinks then the british bishops , might have been in as good a condition as the rest of their brethren at ariminum ; unless their lands were taken away in the persecution of dioclesian , as rudburn seems to intimate , which is all as true , as that monks continued there from lucius to the second year of dioclesian ; which was a long time before his persecution began ; or there were any such monks in the world. but it seems strange , that the british bishops should be then under such poverty , when liberius , in his conference with constantius , told him , the churches were able to bear the charges of their bishops in going to councils , without the publick carriages . for even before constantine's time , they had endowments besides the voluntary oblations of the people , which in great churches were very considerable . but that there were certain endowments besides , appears both by the edicts of maximinus and constantine . by that of maximinus , not onely houses , but the lands which belong'd to the christians , whether seized into the (l) emperour's hands , or in the possession of any city , or given or sold , are all commanded to be restored . and that this doth not relate to their private possessions , but to the publick revenue of their churches , will appear by the following edict of constantine and licinius ; which in the first place commands all their churches to be restored ; and then is added , because the christians are known , not onely to have those places where they assemble , but others , which likewise of right belong to their body , i. e. their churches . for so the words of the edict in (m) lactantius are . ( sed alia etiam habuisse noscuntur ad jus corporis eorum , id est , ecclesiarum non hominum singulorum pertinentia ) these are commanded to be restored , without any delay or dispute . which is again inforced by another edict of constantine to anulinus extant in (n) eusebius with the former , and there are mention'd houses , gardens , or whatsoever possessions they had . those who would have nothing more meant by these expressions , but some fields and gardens , rather than lands , may consider that when the church had plentifull possessions , they were called by no other names . so st. (o) ambrose , agri ecclesiae solvunt tributum . ) and in another law of (p) constantine directed to the provincials of palestine to the same purpose , and with as full and large expressions ; and howsoever they became alienated , the present possessours were to be satisfied with the mean profits ; but by all means he commands a restitution to be made , not onely to particular persons , but to the churches too . but if the endowments of churches were not then considerable , what need so many edicts for the restauration of them ? but constantine did not onely take so much care to restore what the churches had before , but in case there were no heirs at law to the martyrs and confessours , he bestows their lands and goods on the churches . and after this , about four years before the council of nice , he published the famous constitution still extant in the (q) theodosian code ; wherein a full liberty is given to all sorts of persons , to leave what they thought fit by will , to the catholick churches of christians . and this , as gothofred saith , was the true donation of constantine , for , by means of this law , riches flowed into the church , and especially at rome . for although , as (r) paulus saith , by an edict of m. aurelius , the collegia licita , societies allow'd by the laws , were capable of receiving legacies and estates , yet by the (s) laws of the empire , the christians were no legal society to that purpose before : and by a late constitution of dioclesian , societies were excluded from receiving inheritances without a special privilege ; yet now , by this law , all those bars being removed , riches came in so fast in some places , that there needed new constitutions to set bounds to so great liberality . and the privileges which constantine gave to the (t) clergy of exemption from publick services , drew so many to take orders , especially in corporations , where the services were very burthensome ; that constantine was forced to publish edicts to restrain the numbers of them ; which were not intended , to hinder persons of estate and quality from entring into orders , as some have suggested , but onely such whose estates were liable to the publick services , as those who were (u) decuriones origine , and not merely incolatu were ; who bore all the offices , and did the publick duties , having lands given them on purpose in the first settlement of colonies which were called praedia reipublicae , as (w) pancirol observes ; and therefore constantine had reason to forbid such entring into orders to the prejudice of the government . and so the title of the constitution is , de ordinatione clericorum in curiarum & civitatum praejudicium non facienda . which was at that time a very just and reasonable constitution . but afterwards men of great honour and dignities came into the council , as not onely st. ambrose , at milan , who was the consular governour over liguria , and aemilia , and st. paulinus , a roman senatour , behind none in birth , saith (x) st. ambrose , having a great estate in aquitania , was made priest at barcelona , and bishop of nola , but many examples of this kind were in one age in the gallican church , as (y) honoratus , bishop of arles , of a senatorian and consular family ; st. hilary , of arles , of a very noble family , and born to great riches ; sidonius apollinaris , whose father and grandfather were praefecti praetorio galliarum , and himself married to the daughter of the emperour avitus , made praefectus vrbi , & patricius , one of the greaest persons and wits in gaul , was made (a) bishop of auvergn ; st. (b) german , bishop of auxerre , was of noble parents , and governour of a province ; saint (c) ruricius , bishop of limoges , descended from the annician family , as venantius fortunatus saith , which was of that fame at rome , that st. (d) hierome saith , very few of it missed the consulship , and two brothers of it were consuls together , as claudian saith , a thing never seen before or since . (e) from this family arnoldus wion proves that the emperours of germany are descended . and of this same family another ruricius succeeded his grandfather in the same bishoprick . but , besides that general law which gave permission to others to give liberally to churches , constantine of his own revenue allow'd a proportion of corn to be given to the clergy of the greater cities ; of which (f) athanasius speaks , when he saith , constantius took it away from him , and his clergy , and gave it to the arians ; but the gift it self was continued all the time of constantius ; then it was taken away by (g) julian , and in part restored by jovian . it is then no wonder that the bishops at ariminum refused the publick allowance , being maintained by the revenues of their churches ; but it seems the british churches were not then in so rich a condition to maintain their bishops so long abroad ; for constantine , drawing all the wealth and trade of the empire eastward , for the greater advancement of his new city ; and this countrey having been so long harassed with wars , and scarce recovered from the effects of them ; ( for the scots and picts had been very troublesome to them , both in the times of constans and constantius ; the (h) former came himself over into britain to suppress them ; and the latter sent lupicinus his general , who arrived at london about the time the council of ariminum was dissolved ) and therefore in a time of such confusion in the british province , it is not strange that these churches should not be in so plentifull a condition as those which were the seat of trade and government . and (i) ammianus marcellinus observes , that the provincial bishops lived in a much meaner condition than those of the greater cities , especially of rome ; and , although a heathen , he very much commends them for their temperance , humility and modesty . but arianism was not the onely heresie the british churches were charged with ; for (k) gildas from hence makes every following heresie to find a passage hither ; among which the chief was pelagianism . and (l) bede doth insinuate , that pelagius , being a britain , and , spreading his doctrine far and near , did corrupt these churches with it ; which some (m) late writers , having taken up , have affirmed , that both pelagius and coelestius , after their repulse at rome , came over into britain , and dispersed their doctrine here . (n) leland sadly laments the condition of the church of god , that had no sooner recover'd it self from arianism , but a new heresie sprung up to disturb the peace , and infect the minds of christians ; but as egypt brought forth the authour of the former heresie , so did britain the authour of this , which took his name from hence ; and is supposed to have been morgan in british , which by his conversation at rome he turned into pelagius ; and (o) st. augustine saith , he was commonly called pelagius brito , to distinguish him , as he supposed , from another pelagius of tarentum . leland observes , that some made him a britain , as being born in that bretagn which was called aremorica , on the continent . but i do not find that it had then lost its name of aremorica . the first time we find the name of britannia given to that countrey , is in the (p) subscription of mansuetus to the council of tours , where he is named episcopus britannorum , after which time it was frequently called britannia cismarina , minor , celtica , &c. (q) dempster ( not a jesuit , but a lawyer ) takes it very ill of browerus , the jesuit , that he makes pelagius a scot : but not as dempster understands him , for (r) he explains himself , that he meant one that came out of ireland , and therefore was scoticae originis . for which he quotes saint jerome . but archbishop (s) vsher hath observed , that he speaks there , not of pelagius , but of coelestius , whom he makes the cerberus to the pluto , ( according to his usual way of complementing his adversaries . ) but both , he thinks , came out of the british islands . the late (t) publisher of marius mercator , endeavours to shew , that our learned primate was herein mistaken ; and that saint jerome doth not speak of coelestius , but of pelagius himself ; and that by pluto he means ruffinus dead in sicily three years before st. jerome 's writing these words ; but notwithstanding he did still bark through pelagius his mouth , whom he compares to a great scotch mastiff , from which countrey he is derived in the neighbourhood of britain . if these words relate onely to ruffinus and pelagius , it is certain that st. jerome would have it believed , that pelagius came out of ireland . that which makes it most probable , that he means them is , that in the preface to his (u) commentaries on ezekiel , he mentions the death of ruffinus , and then saith , he hoped now he should be quiet to go on with his commentaries on the scriptures ; but not long after he complains , that there were others , which in his room open'd their mouths against him . in the beginning of his commentaries on jeremiah , which he undertook after he had finished those on ezekiel , he mentions one who carped at his commentaries on the ephesians , and calls grunnius , ( i. e. ruffinus ) his forerunner ; and saith , he was , scotorum pultibus praegravatus , made fat with scotch flummery . all this agrees very well with pelagius whom (w) grosius describes as a very corpulent man ; but there is one thing which makes the former opinion not improbable , which is , that st. jerome himself takes so much notice , that pelagius at that time wrote little or nothing about these matters , but coelestius was the man who appeared , especially in the two main points about original sin , and the possibility of perfection : (x) in his epistle to ctesiphon , he saith , that the author of the sect still held his peace , and his disciples wrote for him ; magistrorum silentia profert rabies discipulorum . methinks rabies agrees well enough with cerberus , and here it is meant of the disciple coelestius , and not of pelagius ; which expression answers very well to the other , mutus magister latrat per albinum canem . and he speaks as if he designed to draw him from his closeness and retirement ; which doth far better agree to the mute person , than to the barking cerberus . there is then no improbability , that coelestius and pelagius , may be both meant ; but if any other countrey hath a mind to challenge coelestius to themselves , i think , they may be allow'd to put in their claim notwithstanding these expressions . but it is very unworthy in the same (y) author , to prove pelagius to have been an irish scot , and at the same time to charge his vices on the british nation . he cannot deny , that pelagius had a great natural sharpness of wit , since st. augustine and his other adversaries allow it ; but then he saith , it was fierce and contentious , after the fashion of his countrey ; and which he could not shake off by his long conversation at rome . he grants that his exhortations to piety were vehement and earnest , but written in an uncouth and imperious style , more gentis , according to the humour of his nation . but why must the british nation be reproached for the particular faults of pelagius ? it is a very ill way of confuting pelagius , to attribute mens vices and vertues to their countries ; and is contrary both to the discretion of a philosopher , and to the grace of a christian ; pelagius might have had the same temper if he had been so happy as to have been born in a neighbour countrey ; and i do not see how his way of writing doth affect the british churches ; where the christians might be very wise and humble , notwithstanding this severe and unjust character of the british nation ; which ( as all national reproaches ) is not so great a reproach to any as to him that gives it . but the greatest adversaries to pelagius , did not give him so ill a character ; saint (z) augustine saith , he had the esteem of a very pious man , and of being a christian of no mean rank . was this pro more gentis too ? and of his learning and eloquence st. augustine gives sufficient testimony , in his epistle to juliana , the mother of demetrias , to whom pelagius wrote an epistle highly magnified for the wit and elegance of it . but garnerius will not allow that pelagius was able to write it himself , without the assistance of his disciples coelestius and annianus . but why should this be so hard a thing for a man whom he confesses to have had a great deal of natural wit , and (a) st. augustine saith , he lived long , yea , very long in rome , and kept the best company there ? could a britain never attain to so much purity of the roman language as to write an epistle to the envy of those meliore solo prognatorum , as he speaks , who were born in more happy soils ? what mean such unbecoming reflexions , on the countrey of pelagius ; when himself confesses he had so much mother wit ? and one would think of the two , that is the better soil which produceth more wit than words . our monkish historians make pelagius not onely a monk at bangor , but the abbat there ; so the authour of the polychronicon , and john of tinmouth ; leland takes it from them ; to whom bale adds , that he was made bishop in the east ; but without any authority . (b) leland saith , that he went over into aremorica , to visit his countreymen who were newly settled there , being carried over by maximus . gildas seems to imply , that maximus was originally a britain , when he calls him germen plantationis suae ; but bede takes no notice at all of his countrey . the saxon annals , fabius ethelwerd , huntingdon , and others say , he was born in britain ; but (c) zosimus affirms , that he was a spaniard , and took it ill that he was no more prefer'd , when his countreyman theodosius was made emperour ; however this were , it is certain that he was declared emperour in britain , and that he went out of britain with the forces here ; and that gratian's legions revolted to him ; upon which he fled , and was killed ; and that maximus , being unsatisfied with gratian's share of the empire , went into italy against valentinian , and was after four years destroyed at aquileia ; but in all the proceedings of maximus , i see no ground for the settling the colonies of britains in aremorica . for he landed at the mouth of the rhine , saith zosimus , and was well received by the roman legions there abouts . what occasion then was there for his coming against the aremorici : or , if he had driven them out , had he nothing to doe with his souldiers , but to people countries with them ? but we find the aremorici in quiet possession of their countrey after this time . so that we see no reason at all for pelagius to go to his countreymen in aremorica : from thence leland carries him to all the places of learning in gaul ; as there were many at that time ; and while he was thus passing up and down , he met with julianus of campania , whose wit and learning recommended him to pelagius . but this cannot hold , for pelagius lived a long time in rome before his heresie was discovered ; after the discovery of it , many years passed before julian appeared in it ; and in the last work of (d) st. augustine , just before his death , he calls julian a young man ; although he had been a bishop in campania , at a place called aeculanum , thence his title was episcopus eclanensis . the town stood , faith (e) holstenius , near mirabella ; but since its destruction , the see was removed to frigento , and the bishop called episcopus frequentinus . if pelagius , passing through gaul , made so long a stay in rome , as st. augustine saith , before he was suspected of heresie , there is no probability at all in the monkish tradition of his being abbat of bangor . and there is not much more of bangor's being so famous a monastery at that time , or of pelagius his being a monk therein : for the british monasteries were no elder than st. patrick's time , as i may have occasion to shew afterwards . and even at rome it self the monastick state had not been long known there , being brought out of the east by athanasius and eusebius of vercelles . and in pelagius his time , those were called monks at rome , who had no office in the church , but yet retired from the common emploiments of the world for sacred studies and devotion ; and where any number of these lived together , that was called a monastery ; such was the monasterium pinneti , mention'd by (f) ruffinus , not far from rome ; probably a house of melania ; whither they were wont to retire in times of greater devotion . garnerius confesses that pelagius was no otherwise a monk , than as those were then called so who led stricter lives than others within their own houses ; of which number he reckons pammachius , paulinus , melania , demetrias and others at that time , to whom pelagius was well known , and much esteemed by them , before his heresie was discover'd . the chief emploiment of these persons , next to their devotions , was the study of the scriptures , as appears by st. jerome's epistles ; and some grave person made it his business to instruct his disciples therein : so st. jerome did at bethlehem ; so ruffinus did pammachius , melania and her family ; and so pelagius did at rome , where he had scholars whom he brought up , as appears both by coelestius , and julianus whom he instructed very young , and by timasius and jacobus . from this emploiment it was that he wrote his short commentaries on st. paul's epistles , and his epistles to melania and demetrias ; but after he was accused of heresie , his time was spent in vindication of himself , in africa , asia and rome ; and after many bandyings to and fro from want of understanding the meaning of pelagius , he was , besides the councils in africa , at last condemned in a council at antioch , under theodotus , as (g) marius mercator shews ; and from thence forward , he spent the remainder of his life in obscurity , dying somewhere in the east . from whence it appears , that there is no probability , that pelagius and coelestius should come back to britain , to spread their heresie here . for he complain'd of his age , when he set forth his commentaries at rome , about anno domini . and he was certainly in the east at the council of diospolis , anno domini . from whence he sent coelestius to rome , but abode there himself with albina , pinianus and melania ; and wrote letters to clear himself first to innocentius , and then to zosimus , who was so well satisfied therewith , that he wrote a sharp letter to the african bishops ( who had condemned him ) in his vindication ; severely taxing his accusers ; although there were heresie in that confession which coelestius tendred to zosimus , and which he esteemed orthodox . and (h) st. augustine , is fain to make use of all his wit to bring the pope off from approving of heresie . (i) henr. de noris confesseth that he was circumvented by the pelagians . but it was in a matter of fact , saith (k) jansenius ; what , when he denied original sin in that very paper he delivered in to zosimus ! (l) cappellus thinks it better to deny zosimus his letter ; but therein he is condemned by (m) petavius and others who have lately written about this matter , and say , that cappellus his opinion is singular and false , being contradicted by the testimonies of marius mercator , facundus hermianensis and st. augustine : and one of them blames the pope for too great easiness ; and the other for too great hastiness , and doth think , that the business of appeals , then contested by the african bishops stuck in the pope's stomach , which made him willing to take this occasion to rebuke them . but the african fathers proceeding smartly against the pelagians , notwithstanding zosimus his letter , made him to comply too , in condemning both coelestius and pelagius , notwithstanding his former epistle . so that upon the whole matter pelagius and coelestius , by their own natural wit , had , in all probability been too hard for a whole succession of popes , innocentius , zosimus and xystus , had not the african fathers interposed , and freely told them what the true doctrine of the church was . for (n) they offer'd to subscribe innocentius his epistles ; zosimus was very well satisfied , and thought them peevish and unreasonable that were not ; (o) xystus was their patron at rome , before the african bishops appear'd so resolute in the cause . and had it not been for them ; for all that i can see , pelagianism had spread with the approbation of the roman see. but notwithstanding it was at last condemned at rome , and imperial constitutions published against it ; yet it found a way over into the british churches , by the means of one agricola , the son of severianus , a pelagian bishop , as (p) prosper informs us . it appears by the rescript of (q) valentinian iii. anno dom. . there were several pelagian bishops in gaul . and the severe execution of the edict there was probably the occasion of this agricola's coming over hither and spreading that doctrine here . (r) bale and (s) pits run into many mistakes about this agricola . ( . ) they call him leporius agricola , and then confound the two stories of leporius and agricola together : for after his preaching pelagianism , they mention his conversion and recantation by st. augustine's means . now there was one leporius of whom (t) cassian and (u) gennadius speak , that was a disciple of pelagius , who was driven out of gaul by proculus , bishop of marseilles , and cylinnius of forum julii , and so went into africa , where being convinced by st. augustine , he published his recantation extant in (w) sirmondus his gallican councils , and elsewhere ; and aurelius , augustinus and florentius , gave an account of it to the bishops of provence ; but there is no pelagian errour there mention'd , but something of nestorianism : and by leontius succeeding cylinnius in his see , before anno dom. . it follows , that leporius recanted before the pelagian heresie was spread into these parts ; and therefore this leporius could have nothing to doe in it : besides , it seems probable that this leporius , after his recantation , continued in africa ; for one leporius , a presbyter , is (x) mention'd in the election of eradius in the see of hippo , anno dom. . and (y) st. augustine saith , he was a stranger . ( . ) bale makes him the son of severus sulpicius , a pelagian priest in britain : but prosper and bede say , he was the son of severianus , a bishop . it is true (z) gennadius charges severus sulpicius with pelagianism in his old age ; but if he died , as the (a) sammarthani say , anno dom. . pelagianism was not known to the world then ; and (b) guibertus abbas frees him from the imputation of it : but this severus never was a bishop , and therefore could not be the father of agricola . ( . ) they both make him a monk of banghor ; which had need to have been a large place to receive all that they send thither . ( . ) they say he did write against one timotheus , a british heretick ; two books , saith bale ; but one , saith pits ; which arises from a mistake of sigebert's copy , where britannia is put for bithynia , as our learned archbishop vsher hath observed : and pits seemed to have some mistrust of this , for he doth not affirm his spreading his doctrine in britain as the other doth . but pelagianism was not spread here by agricola alone ; for (c) prosper , speaking of celestine's care to root it out of britain , he saith , it had taken possession here by the enemies of god's grace , solum suae originis occupantes , returning to the soil from whence they sprang : so that there were more than one , and those britains who , being infected with that heresie themselves , did return hither to infect others . from hence (d) some have thought that coelestius at least , if not pelagius , did come hither , being driven out of italy by celestine ; as prosper relates : which jansenius thought not improbable : but it now appears by the commonitorium of marius mercator delivered to theodosius in the consulship of dionysius and florentius , i. e. anno domini . that coelestius did return into the east , and was banished from constantinople by the emperour's edict ; from whence it follows , that coelestius came not into these parts ; nor do we reade what became of him after the council of ephesus , wherein he was condemned by bishops , as the same marius mercator shews . whose account of these things , being a person of that time , and active in this cause , hath clear'd several things , which were much in the dark before . but whosoever they were who brought pelagianism hither , it appears by prosper that they were britains , and had too great success here by the spreading of pelagianism . but care was taken by the sounder part to get it out ; and therefore , distrusting their own sufficiency to deal with such subtile adversaries , they send for help , saith (e) bede , to the bishops of gaul ; who called a great council , and unanimously chose germanus and lupus , two bishops of great reputation , to come over on purpose . they readily undertook the employment , and performed it with great success , as it is at large related by (f) constantius and bede . it is affirmed by a late (g) authour , that the acts of the council which sent germanus and lupus are still in being , with the instructions given them at their coming hither ; if ever they come to light , they will very much clear this intricate part of the history of the british churches . for there is now fifteen years difference among writers about the time of their coming . prosper saith it was , anno dom. . but sigebert , as (h) sirmondus observes , places it , anno dom. . to which he thinks bede's relation doth best agree ; and sirmondus himself puts it that year aetius iii. and symmachus were consuls , in the of valentinian iii. and of leo i. if this computation of the time be true , then it is impossible that st. german should be sent hither by celestine , as prosper affirms ; for xystus was pope after celestine , anno dom. . and it is incredible , that if he had been sent hither by commission from him , neither constantius in his life of st. german , who lived so near that time ; nor the authour of the life of st. lupus trecensis ; nor bede should take any notice of it . but they all mention the particular application made by the britains to the gallican bishops for their assistance ; and their meeting in council on purpose , and chusing , and dispatching st. german and lupus , without any intimation of celestine . (i) baronius and (k) jansenius go about to reconcile these things , by saying , either that the pope approved him whom the council chose ; or that the pope left it to the council to chuse ; but neither of these will hold . for prosper saith , that celestine sent him , vice suâ , in his own name and stead ; which is very different from appointing a council to chuse one to be sent : and constantius saith , that immediately they went ; which shews they did not stay for the pope's approbation . and withall , the kindness was not so great at that time between celestine and the gallican bishops , that either he should send to them to appoint ; or they should wait for his direction in this matter . for prosper and hilary had made great complaints of them at rome , as favouring pelagianism too much . and , among these , hilary , bishop of arles , was the chief . for (l) prosper complains of him particularly in his epistle to st. augustine , which was sent to him , anno dom. , or . as the late editors of st. augustine's epistles conclude ; so that hilary was bishop of arles at that time before st. augustine's death , anno dom. . after his death , the same prosper and another hilary join in a complaint to celestine , and went to rome on purpose ; as appears by his (m) answer , who therein reproves the bishops of gaul , for giving too much countenance to some presbyters who vented new doctrines , viz. cassian and his followers ; and who reflected on the memory of st. augustine . it is not therefore any ways probable that the gallican bishops , having been complained of so long before st. augustine's death , that he wrote a book in answer to them before he died , should be intrusted by celestine to chuse persons to go over into britain to confute pelagianism , when he suspected them , from prosper's information , to be too much inclined to it . it seems therefore most likely that st. german and lupus were sent by a council of gallican bishops , without the pope's concurrence , since constantius , who certainly knew all the circumstances of this matter , saith nothing at all of it . and this st. german was so great with hilary , bishop of arles , that he joined with him in the deposing chelidonius ( for which pope leo was so incensed against him ) as honoratus affirms in his life : which was no new acquaintance , but of so long standing , that if hilary of arles were at that time suspected at rome , st. german would harldly have been pitched upon by celestine for his legate into britain . i wonder how (n) baronius and (o) vossius came to mistake the hilary who joined with prosper , for hilary bishop of arles ; since this hilary never was a disciple of st. augustine's , as the other was ; and he was certainly bishop of arles , after st. augustine's death , when celestine mentions the other hilary as present with prosper at rome , when they informed against the bishops of gaul . for honoratus succeeded patroclus in the see of arles ; prosper saith , that patroclus was killed , anno dom. . honoratus continued but two years in the see : and so hilary might well be newly bishop of arles , when prosper and the other hilary sent to st. augustine , as plainly appears by their epistle ; so that semipelagianism did not , as archbishop (p) vsher supposes , then begin in gaul , when st. germanus and lupus were here employ'd against pelagianism , but was begun before , and embraced by those very bishops who sent them hither ; who for their own vindication appear'd zealous against pelagianism , and were therefore willing to embrace this opportunity to send two of their number into britain . and it is the more strange , that so learned a person should fall into this mistake , when he had so fully proved , as (q) holstenius confesses , that hilary , bishop of arles , did favour the semipelagians ; and it is certain that prosper did complain of him to st. augustine ( if the copies be not corrupt , as he shews they are not ) before st. german's voyage into britain . for st. augustine received the complaint time enough to write his two books of predestination and perseverance , in answer to it , after his book of retractations , and before his elaborate work against julian , and therefore they are probably supposed to be written , anno dom. . if we then yield that st. german's coming hither was when prosper saith , anno dom. . yet we find that semipelagianism had prevailed among the gallican bishops before that time , or else there was no cause at all for prosper's complaint . and to make it appear yet more improbable , that celestine should send st. germanus and st. lupus ; we are to consider , that lupus was brother to vincentius lirinensis , and were both of the same society . which vincentius was a great stickler in the semipelagian cause , as all the members of that society that were considerable were engaged in it ; and when the pope wrote so smartly against the accusers of st. augustine's doctrine , it is very unlikely he should pitch upon one of that society most suspected for it , and whose brother appeared so early and so warmly in it ; not onely by the objections under his name in prosper ; but by the whole design of his commonitorium ; which , if i mistake not , was levell'd against those who went about to broach a new doctrine about predestination , as they said , under st. augustine's name . and they who carefully reade over that discourse , and consider the drift of it , will find i am not mistaken : but (r) baronius is , when he would clear the authour of the commonitorium from favouring those who impugned st. augustine's doctrine about predestination ; which was quite another thing from favouring pelagianism , which cassianus , faustus , and this vincentius all professed to abhor . but what shall be said to prosper , who affirms that celestine sent st. german ? ( . ) (s) prosper , in his undoubted work against cassian , doth not affirm it . for there he onely saith , that celestine took care to free britain from pelagianism . why is not the mission of st. german here mention'd , when it had been most seasonable against the chief of the semipelagians ? no doubt prosper would not have lost this opportunity of magnifying celestine's care , by sending bishops of so great reputation . especially , if these bishops were not semipelagians ; but if so , why doth he not mention them in that work as such , when he complains how much semipelagianism did prevail , and even among their bishops ? ( . ) the prosper published by pithaeus never mentions it , which he thought to be the genuine chronicon of prosper . (t) hadrianus valescus concludes one or the other not to be genuine ; since they differ in point of time , and it is not probable the same man would write two several books about the same matter with such diversity . (u) bucherins thinks it impossible the same person should write both ; yet both pass under the name of tyro prosper ; and so he saith the ancient ms. of it , which he had ( which was like that (w) pontacus calls lodunense ) had that name in the title of it ; but pontacus his had the title of prosper aquitanus , where he is said to be episcopus regini , and great debate hath been , whether he was bishop of regium lepidum in italy ; or of regium ( riez ) in gaul ; but (x) sirmondus proves , he was neither one , nor the other ; by the testimonies of gennadius , victorius , marcellinus , and others ; and by faustus immediately succeeding maximus in that see : and so leaving no room for prosper between them . but there was a prosper , bishop of orleans at that time ; and another prosper , bishop of regium lepidum in italy , as (y) vghellus shews , which might occasion the mistake ; but , besides these , (z) sirmondus tells us , there was another prosper in gaul who wrote a chronicon too , and ended at the same time with tyro prosper ; with this difference , that the one was onely an appendix to st. jerome , the other an entire chronicon , as gennadius expresses it . which is supposed to be that published by labbe out of several mss. but (a) those who have carefully examin'd it have found such a difference in the computation used in the several parts of it , that they cannot think them written by the same authour ; and therefore conclude that published by pithaeus to be the genuine chronicon of prosper , as far as it reaches ; and that the first part , which should make it entire , is not yet discover'd . so that it remains uncertain whether this passage be in the true prosper or not . our (b) learned primate of armagh was of opinion , that the chronicon published by pithaeus was not written by prosper , but by gennadius ; because boston of bury saith , that gennadius added a chronicon to st. jerome . and , i confess , the passage in it about the heresie of the praedestinati doth better agree with gennadius than prosper ; and for that reason sirmondus hath found out another prosper . but the president (c) mauguin saith , it was counterfeited by the semipelagians in prosper 's name ; and that there is no mention in any authours of another prosper who published a chronicon , which ended at the time the true prosper did , viz. anno domini . sirmondus saith , all the ancient copies had the name of prosper upon it . and it is so quoted by sigebert ; but if he had a mind to pass for the other prosper , he would never have differ'd so materially as he doth from him . so that this whole matter is very dark and obscure yet . ( . ) suppose it be granted that prosper wrote so , yet there is greater reason to believe constantius than prosper in this matter . for constantius was not onely living in that age ; but a person of great reputation , as appears by sidonius apollinaris his epistles to him ; and one that wrote with great fidelity , saith (f) baronius ; and therefore it cannot be supposed that he should not expresly set down by whom st. german was sent into britain . besides , constantius is not alone ; but the authour of the life of st. lupus gives the same account ; and so doth bede , ( with whom paulus diaconus , frecalphus , erricus and ado viennensis agree ) and he places their coming after the reign of theodosius ; and therefore it was impossible that celestine should send them . st. germanus and lupus being thus employ'd by the bishops of gaul , in a solemn conference at (g) verulam they disputed with the pelagians ; and had so great success therein ; and by their preaching up and down in many places ; that they left the britains well settled , as they supposed , in the ancient faith. but no sooner were they returned , but some of the pelagians got ground again ; which occasion'd another message to st. german , who then took with him (h) severus , bishop of triers ; and then they prevailed so far as to procure the banishment of these heretical teachers , according to the edict of valentinian ; and from thence forward bede observes that the british churches continued sound and orthodox . but here it will be proper to consider how justly two british bishops have been charged with pelagianism ; the one is fastidius , and the other faustus . as to fastidius , (i) leland confesses , that his memory had been lost , but for the mention which gennadius makes of him ; (k) who saith of him , that he was britannorum episcopus ; and wrote a book to one fatalis , de vita beata , wherein the doctrine was very sound and good . (l) trithemius highly commends him , as a man of great wit and eloquence , an excellent preacher , and very pious man. (m) bale saith , that , being made bishop , he preached over all britain , and was , as is reported , metropolitane of london : what bale speaks upon report ; (n) pits affirms with confidence , that he was archbishop of london . (o) archbishop vsher thinks , they had no other ground for this , but a different reading in gennadius , britanniarum episcopus . from whence they concluded , he must be archbishop of london , that being , as they supposed , the metropolis of britain ; but he rather inclines to the opinion of berterius ; that york was then the metropolis of britain ; not onely because it was a roman colony , but because the praetorium and emperour's palace was there . but these arguments are not sufficient to overthrow london's being the chief metropolis of the roman times . for every province had its metropolis ; and the superiority of one metropolis above another depended on the residence of the roman governour , the vicarius britanniarum . i grant that , in the time of the wars with the northern britains , york was the chief seat of the emperour when he was here , as in the times of severus and constantius ; but that was for the conveniency of attending the wars , and being near to give directions and send supplies . but the preheminence of places in the roman account did depend more upon the civil than the military officers ; these being more uncertain than the other , and where the supreme court of judicature was , that was the chief metropolis , and that was where the supreme governour of those provinces had his residence . thus every province had a president in the metropolis ; but where there was a superiour officer over these presidents , as the vicarius britanniarum was over the five provinces , the place of his residence was the highest metropolis , because the presidents courts were in subordination to his , whether they were consular or presidial ; and therefore the solemn conventus out of the provinces were appointed there . of these things we have a clear instance in the case of arles , where by the constitution of (p) honorius , the seven provinces , over which that was the metropolis , were to have an annual assembly there , where the chief magistrate resided ; and the reasons there given are , the great conveniency of that city being upon the river rhosn , both for other business and trading into all parts . the same reasons will hold to make london the chief metropolis in the roman times , because of its admirable situation for trade and commerce , and the opportunity of sending into , or receiving dispatches from the foreign provinces and the emperour's court where ever it was . so that i see no reason to question london's being the chief metropolis among the romans . the argument from york's being a colony signifies nothing after antoninus gave the jus civitatis to the whole empire ; and london was a colony before york , ( as i may shew elsewhere ) and of a higher nature , when it was called (q) augusta , which shews that it was then the imperial city of britain , that name being given to no other city in britain besides . and it is observed by the learned (r) marc. velserus , that those cities which had the title of augusta conferred upon them , were the capita gentium , the chief metropoles of the provinces ; and since by the general rule of the church , the ecclesiastical government did follow the civil , there is no reason to question , but if fastidius were then bishop of london , he was the chief metropolitane over the churches of britain . but whether fastidius were metropolitane , or onely a british bishop , his doctrine is of late charged to be inclinable to pelagianism . for holstenius found in ancient ms. the book fastidius wrote de vita christiana with his name to it , and so published it ; but it is not directed ad fatalem , but to a certain widow . in this book a late (s) augustinian hath discovered , as he thinks , some tincture of pelagianism ; but to any candid reader his exceptions will appear very frivolous , and there is so much of true primitive christianity in the rest of it , as makes good the character which gennadius and trithemius give of him . out of which book , and no great one , bale hath made four , one de vita christiana , a second de doctrina spiritûs , a third de viduitate servanda , a fourth , admonitiones piae . pits keeps the same number , but lest he should seem to take all out of bale , he alters the title of one of them ; and because gennadius saith his doctrine was deo digna , therefore pits , very artificially , makes the title of his second book to be de doctrina deo digna vel spirituali . boston of bury makes him the authour of two books , by mistaking gennadius ; but as far as we can find , there is but one exstant . (t) dempster hath found fastidius to have been born upon the mountains of the western parts of scotland , and he makes him authour of a fifth book called chronicon scotorum , which is a strain beyond pits . he possitively affirms that he lived an. dom. . trithemius saith , about an. dom. . as to faustus , his case is much harder . that he was originally a britain i find not denied by any ; for although (u) facundus calls him a gaul , yet that was because of his being a bishop so long there , as sirmondus observes ; he being ortu britannus , habitaculo regiensis , as (w) alcimus avitus saith , in his epistle to gundobadus , king of the burgundians , to whom , he saith , faustus was known . in his (x) epistles to ruricius , faustus speaks of his living in a state of banishment , and the comforts he found in it ; this our learned (y) primate understood of his living out of his own countrey ; but (z) hen. de noris , of a banishment by euaricus an arian king then in gaul , which he supposes he underwent for writing against the arians . if he had produced any testimony of such banishment , there might have been reason to have understood his expression so ; but since there is none , and his words are general as to his countrey ; i see no cause to take them in any other sense . for men do not use to call that their countrey where they live as strangers , and he speaks of the kindness of ruricius so to him , that he did patriam in peregrinatione facere , which cannot well bear any other sense , than that he made up the want of his own countrey to him . (a) sirmondus grants he was a britain , but he adds , he was one of those britains who dwelt upon the loir , i. e. in the parts of aremorica . there is no question , but in the time of faustus , there were great numbers of britains there ; for (b) jornandes saith , that riothamus , their king or general , went with britains against euricus , king of the visigoths . which riothamus (c) sidonius apollinaris writes to , and mentions the britains with him ; but it may be justly a question , whether there were any colonies of britains on the continent , before faustus his birth ; for faustus was made abbat of lerins , before the saxons came first into britain ; for he was abbat when st. caprasius died , as the authour of his life affirms , which was about anno domini . but their coming was not till anno domini . and it will be hard to make out any settlement of the britains on the loir before . it is then most probable that faustus went at first out of britain into gaul , where he attained to a wonderfull reputation both for piety and learning . he was worshipped as a saint , saith (d) noris , in the church of riez , and his name was preserved in the calendar of the gallican church . molanus was the first who durst adventure to strike out his name ; baronius follow'd him , but upon admonition restored it , as (e) bollandus observes , who likewise takes notice , that he was called a saint by cl. robertus , by ferrarius , and by pet. galesinius , in his martyrology , who adds , that his books are piously and learnedly written , and that miracles are said to be wrought by him . it is certain , he was a person in mighty esteem in his own time , as appears by the passages of (f) sidonius apollinaris , of (g) ruricius , and others , concerning both his eloquence , learning and piety . of whom sidonius apollinaris gives that excellent character , that he had learnt to speak better than he was taught , and to live better than he spake : he was bishop of riez , anno domini . for at that time he was joined with auxanius in determining the controversie between leontius of arles and mamertus of vienna . but nothing can more manifest the esteem he was then in among the gallican bishops , than that in the council of arles he was pitched upon as the fittest person to draw up their sense in the great points then so much agitated about predestination and grace , as appears by his preface to leontius . at this council thirty bishops were present , and there lucidus presented his recantation of the errours he held about predestination , and after this faustus wrote his books of grace and free-will , to which , he saith , another council at lyons caused some things to be added . in these books it is thought that , under a pretence of confuting those errours , he sets himself against st. augustine's doctrine , as seems clear by one expression in his first book ; that if it be true , that some are predestinated to life , and others to destruction , ut quidam sanctorum dixit , non judicandi nascimur ; sed judicati : but these words may refer to what follows , as well as to what went before , as a certain holy man hath said , we are not born to be judged , but we are judged before we are born . according to which doctrine , saith faustus , there can be no equity in the day of iudgment . it hath been a great question among some learned men , whether there were any persons who drew ill consequences from saint augustine's doctrine , and were therefore opposed by faustus and others , or whether it were the mere doctrine of st. augustine that was so opposed by them , and urged with those consequences as following from it . i see no reason to deny , that the semipelagians did charge the followers of st. augustine with the same things which are made the opinions of those who are called the predestinatian hereticks by sigebert , gennadius , hincmarus , and others . but yet that there were certain persons who did own such bad consequences as the overthrowing the liberty of man's will and the necessity of our endeavours , will appear from these two reasons . ( . ) st. augustine's doctrine was so misunderstood by some in his life time , as appears by the controversie amongst the adrumetine monks . the case was this , florus , one of that society , going to vzala , a city near vtica , between hippo and carthage , where euodius was then bishop , a friend of st. augustine's , there met with (h) st. augustine's large epistle to sixtus against the pelagians , which being sent home , and florus himself going to carthage , before his return they were fallen into great heats upon the occasion of that epistle . some of them , as (i) st. augustine himself saith , did so preach up the grace of god , as to deny free-will , and consequently to say , that god in the day of iudgment would not render to men according to their works ; others said , that our free-will was assisted by the grace of god , that we may know and doe the things that are right ; that the lord , when he comes to render to every man according to their works ; may find our works good , which he hath prepared that we may walk in them . and they , saith he , who judge thus do judge rightly . therefore those who thought otherwise did mistake his doctrine ; for , as he saith , if there be no grace , there can be no salvation ; if there be no free-will , there can be no day of iudgment . to what purpose is all this , if some of these did not so misunderstand his doctrine as to overthrow all liberty of will in mankind ? and so (k) euodius , in his answer to those adrumetine monks shews , that there is still free-will in us , but wounded by the fall , and onely recoverable by the grace of christ. (l) jansenius grants that they did misunderstand st. augustine 's doctrine , thinking that free-will was wholly destroyed by it ; and that no man ought to be reproved when he doeth amiss , but that others ought to pray that he may have grace to doe better . but the president (m) mauguin will not allow this ; for he saith , that st. augustine was at first falsely informed of the state of the controversie among them by cresconius and felix ; but after florus his coming he found they were semipelagians who misunderstood his doctrine . but to what purpose then doth (n) st. augustine take such pains to prove even in the book he wrote after the coming of florus , that there is free-will still left in mankind ? liberum itaque arbitrium confitendum nos est habere , & ad malum , & ad bonum faciendum . not so as to exclude the necessity of divine grace , as he proves at large , but yet in such a manner as to shew its consistency with divine commands , and the just reproof and punishment of those who doe amiss . which shews plainly , that he thought there were some still who misinterpreted his doctrine , not barely to object against it , but to make ill use of it . therefore (o) noris had no reason to conclude that the errour of the adrumetine monks was semipelagianism . ( . ) it appears evidently from the case of lucidus , and the councils of arles and lyons . i grant that the objections mentioned by prosper and hilary were made by the semipelagians , and not by any predestinatian hereticks at that time in gaul ; and therein (p) sirmondus was certainly mistaken , as he was likewise , when he saith , that the epistle of celestine was against the latter , and not against the former . but it appears by faustus his epistle to lucidus that there were some who did so assert predestination as to make all mens endeavours vain and useless ; and this dangerous errour he renounced in his recantation delivered to the council of arles . (q) mauguin is very hard put to it , when he saith , that all these things were the mere invention of faustus ; whom he makes to be countreyman with pelagius and coelestius , and to have sucked in the poison of pelagianism with his milk. he grants that he was famous for his wit , eloquence and philosophy ; but especially for a profound cunning , which (r) isidore mentions in him ; from whence he endeavours to prove by many arguments , that these councils and epistles were all forged by faustus . but he is so far from persuading learned men to be of his mind , that (s) noris himself confesseth he can never assent to it ; and although it be looked on as part of the cunning of faustus , that he designed to convey his books so privately to his countreymen the britains , as appears by the epistle of sidonius apollinaris to him , yet it is utterly incredible that he should forge two councils , and set down the names of several bishops as present in them , with whom sidonius apollinaris was particularly acquainted , and yet he not discover the cheat and imposture . but the jansenists yield , that both those councils were held about anno domini . but they say , that the bishops were partly semipelagians , partly deceived by faustus who was so ; and noris doth not deny , that there were other persons who were then charged with those opinions which lucidus held . but , he saith , they were not many nor considerable enough to make a sect ; and that they did not willingly yield those consequences . but not knowing how to answer the semipelagians , they were forced to assert them ; which their adversaries therefore charged them with as their own opinions . which seems no improbable account of those called predestinatians . it cannot be denied , that faustus his books were severely censured after his death , not onely by the scythian monks at constantinople , among whom joh. maxentius was the chief ; but by the african bishops who were then exiles in sardinia , by whom fulgentius was employ'd to write against them . but possessor , one of the african exiled bishops , being then at constantinople , and finding great heats about faustus his books , sends to pope hormisdas , to know his judgment about them ; which he did at the request of vitalianus and justinianus two of the greatest men in the emperour's court. he returns a cautious answer as to faustus ; which , by the way , shews how little credit is to be given to the decree of gelasius about apocryphal books , for therein faustus his books are condemned . but if this had been done by gelasius , is it probable that hormisdas , his successour , would have stuck so much at it as maxentius saith that he did ? but he refers them for the sense of the church to st. augustine , and prosper , and hilary ; and the definitions of his predecessours . maxentius rails against this answer , as unsatisfactory and next to heretical , and sets st. augustine's sayings against those of faustus . afterwards , caesarius , bishop of arles , not onely wrote against faustus his doctrine , but by his means chiefly it was condemned in the second council of orange : which asserted the necessity of preventing grace ; the denying whereof was the main errour charg'd on faustus , not so much as to good works ( for (t) jansenius hath at large proved , that the semipelagians did yield the necessity of internal grace as to them ; ) but faustus and cassian and gennadius denied it as to faith or good inclinations . but to return to st. germanus and his companions into britain ; if we give credit to our antiquaries , they did other kindnesses to the british churches besides the confuting pelagianism , whereof two are most considerable . ( . ) the institution of schools of learning among the britains . ( . ) the introduction of the gallican liturgy into the use of these churches . ( . ) as to schools of learning ; none were more famous among the britains than those of dubricius and iltutus , who are both said to have been the disciples of st. german . the anonymous authour of the chronicle in (u) leland saith , that st. germanus and lupus , having rooted out pelagianism , consecrated bishops in several parts of britain , and among the rest they placed a cathedral at landaff , and made dubricius archbishop , who disposed of his disciples to several churches ; he made daniel bishop of bangor , and sent iltutus to a place from him called lan iltut , or the church of iltutus . (w) camden saith , to this day it is called lantuit , where the foundations of many houses are still to be seen ; near the place called bovium in the itinerary now boverton . but there is another place near nidum or neath , whose name comes very near it llanylted . the (x) old register of landaff , after it hath mention'd the frequent messages the britains sent to the neighbour bishops of gaul for assistence against the pelagians , and the coming of germanus and lupus sent by them , it adds , that they consecrated bishops in many places , and made dubricius archbishop over all the britains , dextralis partis britanniae , of the right hand part of britain . with which john of tinmouth and capgrave agree . what this right hand part of britain was at the time of the consecration of dubricius is not so easie to understand ; archbishop (y) vsher takes it for south wales ; it being the custome of the britains to call the south the right hand side ; so asserius menevensis calls sussex the region of the right hand saxons . but it is observable that (z) asserius there makes demetia , or south wales , to be but a part of what he calls dextralis pars britanniae . for when he saith in general , that all the countrey of the right hand of britain submitted to king alfred , he then instanceth particularly in hemeid king of demetia , and houil , and other kings of guent , by which north wales is as much understood as south wales is by the other . and therefore i rather think dubricius was made archbishop over all the britains in those parts ; for (a) ranulphus cestrensis saith , the bishop of caerleon had seven suffragan bishops under him : and (b) matt. westminster saith , that dubricius was made archbishop of caerleon , ( although he might have a seat at landaff , as the register of that church affirms , by the gift of mouricus . ) but it appears that he had then archiepiscopal power ; and possibly , upon the disturbance of those times , the see might for a time be removed to landaff ; from whence it was again removed by st. david to the town bearing his name . but the bishops of landaff who succeeded were so unsatisfied with it ; that the register of that church saith , that from oudoceus the second , from dubricius , ( for he succeeded teliaus in that see ) they chose rather to be consecrated by the archbishops of canterbury , than by their own metropolitan of st. david 's , as appears by the protestation made by the bishop of landaff to calixtus ii. in the council of rhemes , anno dom. . but , i confess , it doth not seem very probable that a british bishop should go for consecration to augustine the monk or his successours ; for the british bishops did all look on them as intruders ; and if any should have done it , how would they have been received by the british churches at that time ? it is therefore far more probable , either that they went over to the british archbishop , at dol in britannie , or that there was a succession preserved for some time of the archbishops of london among the britains , after the retirement of theonus and thadiocus , the two other metropolitans of london and york , who , as (c) matt. westminster saith , did withdraw when their churches were destroyed by the saxons , with many of their clergy into wales ; where as long as that succession continued they might exercise some parts of their function , leaving the main to the archbisbop of caerleon , to whom of right it belonged ; and ranulphus saith ; that province extended as far as the severn , and so took in chester , hereford and worcester ; but before dubricius was so much advanced , the authours of his life speak of the great number of scholars which flocked to him from all parts of britain ; not the rude and vulgar onely , but persons of greatest reputation , among whom they name st. theliaus , samson , aidanus , and many others . two places they mention , where he received and instructed his disciples , one at hentlan , on the river wye , where they say he had a thousand students with him , whom he brought up in humane and divine literature . and the other was at moch-rhos , where he had a place for study and devotion . iltutus by (d) vincentius , and the (e) authour of the life of samson is said positively to have been a disciple of st. germanus ; and the (f) authour of the life of gildas saith , that in the school of iltutus many noblemens sons were brought up , among whom he reckons as the chief samson , afterwards archbishop of the britains , viz. at dol in britannie ; paulus , bishop of the oxismii , the most northern of the aremorici ( which bishoprick is since divided into three , treguier , st. pol de leon and st. brieu ) and gildas , called sapiens , of whom afterwards : leland to these adds david and paulinus : and saith , his school flourished like an vniversity among the britains . (g) bollandus and henschenius make a very probable conjecture , that when st. german came into britain , and found the decay of learning to have been the great occasion of the spreading of pelagianism , he appointed dubricius and iltutus to undertake the education of the british clergy ; and that by these means , as bede saith , these churches continued afterwards pure and free from this heresie . which was a wise and seasonable institution ; and hereby we see the british churches were not defective in learning in their lowest condition , when the britains were forced to leave their habitations , and to fly into corners . of which , besides these nurseries of dubricius and iltutus , we have a famous instance in the monastery of banchor , which even (h) bede saith , was furnished with learned men at the coming of augustine into england . this banchor was distant but ten or twelve miles from chester , as (i) ranulphus cestrensis and bradshaw , in his life of st. werburg , say . (k) leland in his itinerary describes the place as standing in a valley , and having the compass of a walled town , and two gates remaining half a mile distant from each other . (l) camden supposes it to be the bomium in antoninus , being ten miles distant from deva , i. e. chester . that which was most observable in this british monastery was , that men there were bred up to learning and devotion together , and so more resembling our colleges than the egyptian monasteries , where men were brought up to ignorance and labour as much as to devotion . wherein the benedictines followed them according to their first institution : for st. benedict himself not onely despised learning , as the writers of his life say ; but he takes no care about it in the rule of his order ; and when (m) boniface gave an account to zachary of his setting up a benedictine monastery at fulda , he sets the monks out by their abstinence and hard labour with their own hands , without servants . it is true that (n) trithemius speaks much of the schools of learning in the benedictine monasteries , but not before anno dom. . which was after the (o) constitutions of charles the great , who appointed schools for instructing youth both in monasteries and cathedrals ; which gave the first countenance and encouragement to learning at that time ; and (p) lupus ferrariensis saith , that the reviving of learning was then owing to him : but although these constitutions extended no farther than to grammar schools ; yet from hence , those who were inclined to learning in the monasteries applied themselves more to it ; and by degrees gained a great reputation by it , as rabanus maurus at fulda , whose esteem drew lupus thither , and many others ; which example prevailing , and the monks finding such resort to increase their wealth as well as reputation , as (q) aub. miraeus observes ; from that time the monasteries were desirous to have some of their number to be eminent for learning , which had been before so much neglected by them , as wholly besides the rule of their order . but the monasteries of the western churches before st. benedict's time , such as that of st. ambrose , st. eusebius of vercelles , st. augustine in africa , st. martin in gaul , were chiefly intended as nurseries to the church , and the persons educated therein , were brought up with a design to doe the church service afterwards . this method of education taking so much in other churches ( as in gaul , where so many eminent bishops were taken out of the monastery of lerins , according to the rule of caprasius , ) st. german who was so well acquainted with st. honoratus , st. hilary of arles , and others of that education , might probably be the first instrument of setting up this way in the british churches . and to confirm this , st. patrick , who carried over this monastick education into ireland , spent many years under the discipline of st. german , as (r) probus and (s) jocelin the writers of his life do agree . and those who have written of st. german have mention'd him as one of his disciples , as (t) erricus of auxerre . and (u) william of malmsbury saith , he was not onely a disciple of saint german , but being made bishop by celestine , he was sent by st. german into ireland . and in the irish monasteries there were schools like those of dubricius and iltutus for the breeding of youth in learning . for therein , as rouse an antiquary in edward iv. time saith , the masters did teach , secundum formam studiorum antiquorum , according to the ancient method of learning ; which our learned (w) primate understands of joining the studies of humane learning with divine ; of which he produces an instance in a ms. of the library of worcester ; being a commentary of an irish bishop upon martianus capella's astrology which he read to his disciples in the monastery of st. remigius in down . and the authour of the opus tripartitum of the life of st. patrick saith , that he set up at armagh summum studium literale . which in the language of that time is the same with an vniversity , onely this is a law-term , and implies a legal society incorporated for the profession of learning , which the (x) civilians tell us , none but the supreme authority of a nation can doe . in this school at armagh , caradoc of lancarvan in his life of gildas saith , that he was a professour , studium regens & praedicans in civitate ardmaca . but the anonymous authour of his life published out of an ancient ms. by joh. à bosco (y) saith , that gildas , going over into ireland in the time of ammeric , i. e. about anno dom. . found both religion and learning much decay'd there , and that he built many churches and monasteries , and brought up many noble mens sons therein . in his younger days , he saith , gildas went to iren , and visited the schools of many learned men , and enquired their opinions in philosophical and divine matters . some question hath been made by learned men , what this authour means by iren ; the most easie and obvious sense is to take it for ireland , where there were so many schools of learning in the monasteries of st. patrick's foundation ; and iris is used by (z) diodorus siculus for ireland : and (a) ierne in the book de mundo , and apuleius ; and the inhabitants are called irenses by (b) ordericus vitalis ; and the countrey is called erin by the inhabitants , as archbishop (c) vsher observes ; but the marginal note of joh. à ; bosco hath led some quite out of their way in seeking for this place ; which is , that iren was an vniversity then in great britain ; and from hence they have proceeded to prove our famous university of oxford to be meant by it ; (d) first , iren , say they , was mistaken for icen , and that for ychen , and ychen for rydychen , and rydychen in the british tongue signifies the same with vadum boum , and that is the same with oxford . i cannot think learned men write these things any otherwise , than as sports of wit , which are intended for the diversion , and not for the conviction of the reader . as likewise , when the same authours produce out of constantius his life of st. german , regionis illius vniversitas , to prove the antiquity of their vniversity . but that passage in the copy of asserius , printed by camden is more material , viz. that st. german staid half a year in oxford , and approved the orders made by gildas , melkin , nennius and kentigern . i know what heats have been about this passage among very learned men. for my part , i see no cause to mistrust the sincerity of archbishop parker in the edition of his very ancient copy , where this passage was not to be found ; and i do not question camden's fidelity in publishing asserius out of some other copy ; but it had been fair to have given an account whence he had it , and for what reasons he inserted it in another edition of asserius ; and why he preferred the savilian copy before the other . but i cannot but wonder that these learned men have taken no more notice of the inconsistency of this passage with the history of those times . for these persons all lived a considerable time after st. german , as it were easie to prove , if it were worth the pains . for gildas was not born till at least forty four years were past after st. german's death : which thus appears ; he saith he was born the year of the victory of aurelius ambrosius over the saxons at the mons badonicus , which was forty four years after they came hither , anno dom. . and by comparing st. german's embassy to valentinian at ravenna , where he died , we shall find that st. german was dead the year before the saxons arrival , anno dom. . as the (e) samarthani shew . but against this there is a considerable objection from what (f) bede saith , that the saxons and picts joined together after st. germans coming , which occasion'd the victory by singing alleluiah according to st. german 's direction ; and it is so much stronger , in that the very same expressions are in constantius . but this may be easily solved by those that consider the frequent incursions the saxons made on the britains before they were sent for over , as appears by the comes litoris saxonici per britanniam , appointed to secure the coasts from the saxons ; and that gildas therefore wonders the britains should send for the saxons , of whom they were so much afraid before ; and when the roman forces were withdrawn , no doubt they did more boldly and frequently disturb them . besides , (g) constantius saith in st. german's life , that he succeeded st. amator in his see , and continued therein thirty years and twenty five days . but st. amator died anno dom. . as our learned (h) primate hath proved , because the calends of may on which he died were that year , as constantius saith , the fourth day of the week , which agrees to . if it be said , that this passage of asserius is meant of an elder gildas , called gildas albanius whose life the same excellent antiquary supposes to be written by caradoc of lancarvan ; i answer , that when he comes to fix the times in his chronological index , he doth overthrow his own supposition : for caradoc , by his own confession , makes gildas contemporary with king arthur , and he is said by him to be born anno dom. . and therefore caradoc's gildas can be no elder than the gildas badonicus . although therefore the want of skill may make caradoc set his gildas elder than he ought to have done ; yet whosoever will compare that life published by joh. à bosco with the other by caradoc , will find that they were designed for the same person . and therefore leland , with far more judgment , mentions but one gildas ; but bale and pits make more ; but it is their vanity to multiply authours as well as books . st. kentigern was baptized assoon as he was born , by seruanus , one of the disciples of palladius , whose mission had the same date with the first coming of st. germanus and lupus ; and therefore it is not very probable that st. german should see the orders of gildas and kentigern , much less those of melkin and nennius , whose ages fall so far short of the others . but although st. german's being at oxford cannot be proved by such obscure and incoherent passages as this ; yet i doubt not but by the evidence already produced , he did take care to advance learning and piety in the british churches wheresoever he came : both which were falling very much to decay upon the irruption of the barbarous nations . while the roman empire flourished there was care taken for the encouragement of learning , especially in greater cities . at rome by the constitution of valentinian we may see the orders then made for regulation of students there ; as for entring their names who came thither out of the several provinces by the magister census , with the testimonials from the governours of provinces , of the place of their birth and quality , who then were to declare what studies they designed to follow , and an account was to be given of their lodgings : and particular officers were appointed called censuales to make an inspection into their lives , that they did avoid all clubs called there consociations , or frequent appearing at the sports , or affecting unseasonable and publick entertainments . if any were found faulty , they were to be chastised , and sent away home , but none were permitted to stay after twenty at rome , and an account of these things was to be taken monthly , and given in to the praefectus vrbis , and return'd to the emperour every year ; as appears by the (i) constitution it self in the theodosian code . by which we find , that rome it self was then the chief vniversity of the empire , to which students resorted from all the provinces , and the emperour thought it not below his cognizance to have notice sent him of the numbers , qualities and behaviours of the students ; but lest the splendour and vanities of rome should tempt them to forsake the service of their countrey , they were not permitted to stay there after twenty years of age ; for then , not having the difficulties of the language to conquer which they were used to while children , at fifteen they were thought fit to be instructed in other studies , and five or six years was all the time this law allow'd them to prosecute them under the masters at rome . where , besides an infinite number of private teachers in that vast city , there were publick professours appointed , who had their schools within the area of the capitol , which were called auditoria publica , as we may reasonably infer from the (k) constitution of theodosius ; where the exedrae of the portico's of the capitol at constantinople are appointed to make auditoria for the publick professours there : and constantinople follow'd the pattern at rome . these exedrae were , as (l) vitruvius describes them , places of capacity within the portico's , with seats round , in which the rhetoricians , and others , were wont to discourse ; or , according to (m) cicero , they were cellae ad colloquendum aut meridiandum , such as crassus had at tusculum , and cotta at rome , where those great men were wont to sit for their diversion and discourse with each other : and the greek glossary renders exedra , a school ; such a one (n) strabo describes in the musaeum at alexandria , which consisted of a walk , an exedra , and a great house where the learned men did all live and eat together upon a publick allowance , under the government of a person appointed by their kings , and after by the caesars . this musaeum was adjoining to the palace , and near it was the famous library of ptolemy philadelphus : for that was in bruchio , as (o) epiphanius saith , and was distinct from the other library afterwards in serapeo mentioned by (p) ammianus marcellinus . this bruchion was a region of the city , as epiphanius saith ; and some will have its name from the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the granary of alexandria being there , and by contraction it was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so the ms. of (q) eusebius mention'd by valesius hath it . but (r) salmasius would have the name taken from the stores laid in there for the college of learned men in the musaeum , which ammianus marcellinus calls praestantium hominum domicilium ; and this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he saith , is the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and eustathius saith , the one signified the same at alexandria , which the other did at athens ; and , he observes , that it was accounted a great favour in the emperours to grant any learned man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. a fellowship in the college . so (s) athenaeus mentions it as the kindness of hadrian to pancrates the poet , for flattering antinous ; that he gave him a right of commons in the musaeum : as he did likewise to dionysius the sophist , and polemon , and nicetas smyrnaeus , as philostratus in their lives relates . aristonicus wrote the history of the musaeum at alexandria , and of the philosophers and learned men who flourished in it , and the manner of their living there ; out of whom (t) photius saith that sopater borrow'd part of the twelfth book of his miscellanies . but this book being lost , as likewise those of callimachus and alcidamas , no particular account can be given of the history of it . onely in general we know , that the most learned persons in their several professions were invited thither , and had there all the encouragements which freedom from care , good air , ( for the musaeum was celebrated for that by strabo ) sutable society and an excellent library could give them ; the keepers whereof were men of the greatest reputation , as demetrius phalereus , zenodotus ephesius , eratosthenes , apollonius , aristonymus , chaeremon , dionysius , &c. in this musaeum it was that (u) hadrian proposed questions to the professours ; and in it were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 instituted , or sports by philadelphus to apollo and the muses , after the finishing his library and rewards given to those that overcame in the opinions of the five iudges appointed for that purpose . from hence came the commissiones and agones sacri among the romans , at which judges were appointed ; among whom (w) horace mentions metius tarpa for one . these were sometimes performed in the capitol , as (x) rycquius observes , i. e. in the portico's where the exedrae were like those at constantinople . what the number of publick professours was at alexandria and rome is not certainly known , but at constantinople their number is determin'd by a (y) constitution of theodosius . in the publick schools called there auditorium capitolii and auditorium nostrum , there were to be for the latine tongue three oratours , and ten grammarians ; for the greek five sophists and ten grammarians ; one professour of philosophy and two of law. these had their distinct schools allotted them called publicae magistrationes and cellae in the law ; and all others were forbidden to teach in publick , either within the capitol , or elsewhere , upon pain of infamy for the fact , and banishment out of the city . the emperour valens , by another constitution , appointed for the publick library at constantinople seven antiquaries to look after the books , four greek and three latine , who were to have a publick allowance ; so that there was a bibliotheca palatina there as well as at rome , and both in probability were near the capitol , where the professours taught ; for that at rome was called bibliotheca capitolina , concerning which joh. (z) sarisburiensis saith , it was reported that gregory the great caused it to be destroyed , out of a fear , that heathen learning should abate mens love to the scriptures ; which was a very foolish and superstitious fear . for men know better how to value the scriptures by it . and he did ill then to fetch the soul of trajan out of purgatory ( but i hope one story is no truer than the other ) for he founded the bibliotheca vlpia , which was next to the palatina ; and victor saith , there were twenty seven more publick libraries in rome . if this story be true , gregory rather follow'd the steps of julian than of constantine ; for the one envied learning to the christians as much as the other promoted it , victor's epitome saith of constantine , that he did , nutrire artes bonas , praecipuè studia literarum ; and his (a) constitutions still extant do shew the great kindness he had for learning and learned men ; granting great privileges and publick salaries to the professours of learning in the several cities of the empire . but julian , finding that christianity did spread by the learning of the christians , he first drew the choice of publick professours to himself , by making his approbation necessary after the judicium ordinis and decretum curialium , and so excluded the christians . afterwards (b) he expresly declared , he would endure none to interpret heathen authours , who argued against their religion : but no constitution appears in the code besides the former tending that way . upon this proaeresius , saith (c) st. jerome , left the chair at athens , although he had a particular indulgence by julian . and (d) orosius adds , that the christian professours of learning almost universally forsook their places : but both mention an express edict of julian's to that purpose . some writers speak of another edict forbidding christian children to learn ; but i can find no edict to that purpose ; and it seems to me to have been onely a consequence of the former ; since christian parents would not send their children to be taught by heathens , having seen the sad effect of it in the apostacy of julian , under his heathen tutours , mardonius , maximus and iamblichus . but by this edict we find how universally learning was then diffused through the provinces of the roman empire , which was in great measure due to antoninus pius , of whom (e) jul. capitolinus saith , that he appointed honours and pensions to rhetoricians and philósophers through all the provinces ; which were confirmed and inlarged by the several edicts of constantine to that purpose , already mention'd . and (f) fr. baldwin takes particular notice of his zeal to promote learning . in gaul (g) st. jerome mentions the florentissima studia galliarum ; and constantius , in the life of st. german , the auditoria galliarum ; after which , he saith , he went to rome as the chief vniversity especially for law ; thence (h) sidonius apollinaris calls it domicilium legum , and saint (i) augustine saith , he went thither to study the laws . but other professions flourished elsewhere ; as at carthage , (k) salvian saith , there were professours of all arts and sciences : and at sicca veneria in africa , arnobius was professour of rhetorick . near lyons in gaul the cities had dedicated an altar to augustus , where the rhosn and the arar meet , there caius caligula appointed prizes to be plaid both in greek and latine eloquence ; and not that onely , but philosophy was there taught ; thence (l) odilo , abbat of clugney , about anno dom. . calls lyons of old the mother and nurse of philosophy . in the time of dioclesian and maximianus , the nobility of gaul were brought up to learning at augustodunum ( autun ) and there eumenius was both rectour and professour , as appears by his speech to constantius , where (m) he celebrates so much the scholae moenianae , quondam pulcherimo opere & studiorum frequentiâ celebres ; which having suffer'd very much in the rebellion of the bagaudae under the latter claudius ; he was extremely concerned to have them rebuilt , which is the design of his excellent oration . but long before , in tiberius his time , (n) tacitus saith , the sons of the nobility did there , liberalibus studiis operari , improve themselves in learning . (o) eusebius mentions , in the time of nero , statius vrsulus of tholouse , a famous professour of rhetorick . and (p) ausonius reckons up many of those who had been famous there and at bourdeaux , and other places . but to spare our pains in particular places , there is extant in the theodosian code an (q) edict of gratian , requiring all the chief cities of these parts of the roman empire to settle and maintain in them professours of learning , both of the greek and roman languages . this edict was directed to the praefectus praetorio galliarum , and was commanded to be observed through all his diocese , which gothofred restrains to the provinces of gaul , excluding britain , for which i see no reason ; since (r) ausonius who was himself in that office in gratian's time comprehends the britains under his jurisdiction . and the notitia imperii places the provinces of britain under him after gratian's time . which notitia he thinks was made about anno dom. . by virtue of which edict we are to search for the ancient schools of learning among the britains , in the chief cities of the provinces at that time ; especially at london , which was the caput gentis , being augusta or the imperial city , and so at york and caerleon . so that the british churches , as long as the roman power continued here , had the same advantages for learning which they had in other provinces ; but when the roman forces were withdrawn , and nothing but miseries and desolation follow'd ; then st. german's care proved a most seasonable relief to them in providing such schools as those of dubricius and iltutus for the breeding up of persons qualified for the service of the church ; as far as the miseries of those times would permit . the last thing to be considered is , the publick service of the british churches . and in an ancient ms. in the cotton library , about the original of divine offices , germanus and lupus are said to have brought into the use of the british churches , ordinem cursûs gallorum . by which (s) archbishop vsher understands the gallican liturgy . for cursus in the ecclesiastical use of the word is the same with officium divinum , as dominicus macer , in his late hierolexicon shews ; thence cursum celebrare , is , to perform divine offices ; and so the word cursus is often used in (t) fortunatus his life of st. german , bishop of paris , and in our (u) saxon writers : but this cursus gallorum is there distinguished from the cursus orientalis , and the cursus ambrosii , and the cursus benedicti ( which little differs , he saith , from the cursus romanus ) and this was that which germanus and lupus had learnt in the monastery of lerins , where it was used by cassianus and honoratus , as the authour of that book affirms , which i find to have been the same which (w) sir h. spelman commends for its great antiquity . and that authour derives the gallican liturgy from st. john by polycarp and irenaeus ; which ms. mabillon was inclined to think to have been the book which gregorius turonensis wrote de cursibus ecclesiasticis , but for the quoting the (x) life of columbanus and attala , which was not written till after his death . this will oblige us to enquire , what the gallican liturgy at this time was , and how far different from the roman . it is agreed on all hands , that there was a material difference between them , but wherein it lay is not so easily understood . when gregory sent augustine the monk into england , to settle the saxon churches , and he was consecrated by the archbishop of arles , one of the questions , (y) augustine proposed , was , since there was such difference between the offices of the roman and gallican churches , which he should follow ? gregory answered , that he should chuse what he thought most proper for the english church . which implies , that there was a diversity still between them ; and that the pope did not oblige him to follow the example of the roman church ; chiefly , i suppose , because the queen , being a christian before , and using the gallican liturgy in the publick service , and her bishop being of the gallican church , it would have given great offence to them to have had it taken away ; as likewise to all the british churches which had been accustomed to it . if the books of musaeus mention'd by (z) gennadius were extant , we should easily understand wherein the difference lay . for , he being a presbyter of the church of marseilles , and a man learned in the scriptures , was desired by venerius , the bishop there , to draw up a form of publick service , consisting of two parts , viz. the morning service , and the communion service . the first he finished in the time of venerius , and is highly commended by gennadius for its order , vsefulness and decency . the second , in the time of eustathius his successour , which he likewise commends for its great weight and exactness . and there was great reason at that time , to bring the church service into order , because cassian and others endeavour'd to introduce the monastick customs which he had observed in egypt and elsewhere , as appears by the design of his monastick institutions , especially the second and third books , which he dedicated to castor , bishop of apta iulia , at the same time that venerius was bishop of marseilles , where cassian lived . this musaeus was therefore employ'd to draw up the most convenient order for the publick service , from whence we may be able to judge of the difference in both parts between the gallican and roman offices . i begin with the first , viz. the morning service , which consisted of lessons , hymns and psalms agreeable to the lessons , and short collects after them . in the church of rome , for a long time , viz. for above years , they had nothing before the sacrifice , as the old ritualists agree , besides the epistle and gospel ; then celestine appointed the psalms to be used ; or as (a) walafr . strabo and micrologus say , caused antiphonae to be made out of them and sung . the epistle was constantly taken out of st. paul , as walafr . strabo proves out of the pontifical book ; but in process of time , he saith , other lessons were taken out of the old and new testament , agreeably to the time ; which might be borrow'd from the gallican church ; as other inlargements of their offices by the ritualists confession were , and in probability the distribution of the lessons was first begun by musaeus , which we have digested according to the roman custome in the lectionarius , published by pamelius , by some attributed to st. jerome . after the lessons follow'd the responsoria , or proper hymns , for so (b) isidore saith , they were called , because , one singing , the whole choire did answer ; and (c) rhabanus maurus calls such an anthem , responsorius cantus ; and these differ'd from the antiphonae , because in them the whole choire sung each verse alternatim : but (d) rupertus thinks , they had their name because they answered to the lessons , being sung immediately after them ; for the refreshment of the hearers mind , saith (e) amalarius . but , besides the lessons and hymns , he methodiz'd the psalms so as to be read agreeably to the times and the lessons ; and not in the order wherein they stand : which seems to have been peculiar to the gallican church . the most ancient custome of the church , as (f) menardus proves from justin martyr , and others , was to begin the publick service with the lessons . and (g) st. ambrose , in one place , seems to mention no more in his church at milan besides the lessons and the sermon , before his expounding the creed to the competentes ; but in the same epistle he speaks of the psalms that were read in the morning service : and (h) elsewhere of the people's answering to the psalms ; and it is generally said by the ancient ritualists , that st. ambrose brought into the use of the western church the custome of singing the psalms verse by verse in turns by both sides of the choire ; so (i) isidore , (k) rabanus , (l) walafridus strabo , and (m) radulphus tungrensis : and so paulinus in his life saith , he brought up the use of antiphonae , in the western church . and (n) sigebert adds , that he took it from the greeks . and (o) st. augustine sets down the occasion of it , viz. when the people at milan were persecuted by the arians , and resolved to abide in the church . and therefore to keep them well employ'd he thought upon this custome of the eastern churches ; which not onely continued there , but from thence spread into other churches , not without opposition in some places ; as (p) st. augustine confesses , it met with some at carthage ; but withall he saith , he wrote in vindication of it . in the eastern church it was of ancient use , if (q) socrates say true ; for he saith , it begun upon a divine vision to ignatius , at the church of antioch . but (r) theodoret saith , flavianus and diodorus brought it up there ; but the words of theodorus mopseustenus in (s) nicetas seem to intimate , that they took this custome from the syriack churches ; however theodoret attributes the beginning of singing the psalms of david in that manner in the greek churches to them ; from whence he saith it spread into other parts . but we find by (t) st. basil , it was very hardly received in the church of neocaesarea , because it was not introduced by gregory , who first settled the church there . neither , saith he , were the litanies which they then used , brought in by him : and for that custome of singing , he saith , it was practised in the churches of egypt , palaestine and syria , as far as euphrates . but it came later into the western church . (u) card. bona saith , that damasus first commanded it to be used in all churches by his apostolical authority ; but (w) card. baronius saith , it is a plain falshood which the pontifical book affirms of damasus his appointing the psalms to be sung in all churches , and he adds , that the epistles of st. hierome and damasus about it are counterfeit . yet those are the authorities which , as appears by (x) pamelius , the ancient ritualists rely upon . all that baronius will allow to be done in the time of damasus , was , that st. jerome 's psalter was then introduced at rome . and yet we are told , (y) that to this day , the old translation of the psalter is used in st. peter 's , and is called , psalterium romanum in the rule of st. francis , which he forbids to be used in divine service ; but the same is onely used in the ambrosian office. and (z) card. bona observes , that st. gregory composed the antiphonae at the introitus , and at the responsoria , &c. out of the old version , before st. jerome's time ; of which he gives this reason , that the people at rome were so accustom'd to it , that they would not learn the new testament of st. jerome ; and the same authour (a) observes likewise , that the old italick version was not onely used in rome , but in all the suburbicary churches , and other churches , gaul onely excepted . and from thence st. jerome's translation was called versio gallicana , because it was immediately received into the use of the gallican churches . so that i see not how baronius can make good his own assertion , that st. jerome 's translation of the psalter was introduced by damasus . but the use of alleluja by st. jerome's means , as (b) st. gregory saith , was brought from the church of ierusalem . which baronius thinks is rather to be understood of some particular manner of using it . but how he can justifie the ancient use of the singing psalms at rome , either before or after damasus his time till celestine was pope , i cannot imagine , if the pontifical book say true , for that expresly affirms , that celestine appointed david 's psalms to be sung antiphonatim before the sacrifice , and that it was not done before , but onely the epistles of st. paul and the holy gospel were read . which words are repeated by alcuinus , amalarius , rabanus maurus , walafridus strabo , berno augiensis , and several other ritualists and historians , as may be seen in (c) pamelius his collection , and (d) cassander's , besides the authours themselves ; but (e) baronius saith , the use of singing the psalms was from the beginning in the roman church ; which we are to take upon his word , for he brings no proof of it . it is true , that (f) st. augustine saith , that we have the precept and example of christ and his apostles , for singing in our assemblies . but he speaks not of david's psalms , nor of the church of rome . and he saith , the customs of churches were very different about this matter . in the churches of africa , he saith , they confined themselves to the prophetical hymns , for which they were upbraided by the donatists , as too grave and formal ; but he allows singing to be one of the solemn parts of divine service , with which he joins reading the lessons , preaching and prayer ; either aloud by the bishop , or in common , by the deacon's giving notice . (g) justin martyr mentions the hymns of the church , without declaring whether they were composed or inspired ; and so do (h) pliny and (i) tertullian in some places . but in his (k) apology he saith , both were used . (l) eusebius mentions the hymns composed by christians which proved the divinity of christ ; and (m) the great esteem the hymns of nepos were in ; and (n) the complaint against paulus samosatenus for laying aside the hymns made to the honour of christ. the council of (o) laodicea first restrained the use of private hymns in the churches service , the greek canonists understand this canon of apocryphal psalms , such as salomon's psalter published by la cerda out of the auspurg ms. which he highly magnifies , and almost believes to be genuine ; but if this canon be extended to all humane compositions ; it was never received in the western church , wherein the hymns of st. hilary , st. ambrose , prudentius , and others have been generally used . and the ambrosian hymns were received into the service of the gallican church , as appears by the second council at (p) tours ; and (q) cassander observes , that not onely those made by st. ambrose , but others in imitation of him , were called by his name ; which (r) walafridus strabo confirms ; but among those the te deum is not reckon'd by cassander , neither is it of the ambrosian composition , for those hymns ended their sentence every fourth verse , as he observes . te deum is commonly said to have been made by st. ambrose , and st. augustine , at his baptism , and to prove it , the ritualists quote the chronicle of datius , bishop of milan . but (s) gavantus observes , that the learned men of milan deny that there is any such thing as a chronicle of datius among them . (t) mabillon sent to them to enquire particularly about it , and they return'd answer , that they had no such thing , but that there was such a title put upon a book written by other authours . in an old collection of hymns , and an old latine and french psalter mention'd by (u) archbishop vsher , this hymn is attributed to st. nicetius . and there were two of that name in the gallican church ; the former of which , might probably be the authour of it . the one was bishop of triers , and subscribed to the council of auvergn , anno dom. . highly commended for his eloquence and sanctity by (w) gregorius turonensis , (x) fortunatus and others ; and the other of great fame too and bishop of lyons , who subscribed to the council there anno dom. . but against this latter there is a strong objection from the mention of this hymn in the rule of st. benedict , c. . who died , according to baronius , anno dom. . it is likewise mention'd in the rule of (y) caesarius , drawn up by tetradius , c. . who died about the same time ; and in the rule of (z) aurelianus , who was present in the council of lyons , anno dom. . in the time of sacerdos , predecessour to nicetius . but i see no reason against the former nicetius , since (a) menardus confidently affirms there is no mention of this hymn in any writers before . and therefore we may look on this hymn , as owing its original to the gallican church . besides , (b) cassian takes notice that in the gallican churches , gloria patri , &c. was said by the people at the end of every psalm . but walafridus strabo observes , that at rome they used it rarely at the end of the psalms ; but more frequently after the responsoria . from hence the three cardinals , (c) bellarmine , (d) baronius and (e) bona all conclude those ritualists mistaken who make damasus the authour of adding the gloria patri , &c. to the end of every psalm : and that the epistle under the name of st. jerome to him about it is notoriously false , and withall they say , that the other ritualists are mistaken who attribute it to the council of nice ; because then there would not have been such difference in the use of it in several churches . in the aethiopick eucharistical office of the fathers at the council of nice , bestow'd on me by my worthy friend , doctour castle , this hymn it self is not used ; but the office consists chiefly of a lofty and divine paraphrase upon it . in the liturgy of dioscorus it is used in the middle of the prayers . it is evident from (f) st. basil's discourse concerning it , that the hymn it self was of ancient use in the eastern church ; but he doth not say in what part of the churches service it was used ; but (g) cassian saith , over all the east , it was used onely to conclude the antiphona . by which he understands a hymn between the psalms ; walafridus strabo observes great diversity in the use of it in the western churches ; some put it , he saith , into all offices ; some at the end of every psalm ; some at every breaking off the longer psalms ; some after the responsals ; but the use in general was universally approved , onely the greeks found fault with the latines for putting in the middle , sicut erat in principio , but the use thereof was required in all the gallican churches in the time of (h) caesarius , archbishop of arles ( as (i) uniformity was required by other councils . ) cardinal bona , following baronius , makes that council much elder which required the use of this hymn , and soon after the council of nice ; but that cannot be , if the subscriptions in sirmondus be true ; and he observes that mistake in baronius to have risen from misunderstanding a passage of ado viennensis . so that the morning service of the gallican churches consisted chiefly in lessons , hymns and psalms of st. jerome 's translation , with gloria patri at the end of every psalm . the latine tongue being yet the common language of the roman provinces . but are we to suppose , that they met together for the worship of god without any prayers ? i answer , that they had then two sorts of prayers in their assemblies . ( . ) private prayers of each particular person by himself . ( . ) a concluding collect , which was the common prayer , wherein they all joined . ( . ) that they had such private prayers in their assemblies i prove from (k) cassian , who reproves the custome of some in the gallican churches , who fell to their private devotions on their knees , before the psalm was well ended . but , he saith , the egyptian monks used to spend some time in prayer to themselves standing , and then fall down for a short space in a way of adoration , and presently rise up again , continuing their devotions standing . all which is capable of no other sense ; but that between the psalms a time was allow'd in the gallican churches as well as egyptian monasteries , for private devotions in the publick assemblies . (l) gregor turonensis saith , that in the gallican churches the deacon did silentium indicere ; and the priest did it by the (m) mozarabick liturgy , which eugenius roblesius understands onely of making the people attentive ; which i grant was part of the deacon's office and design in commanding silence , as appears by several passages in the ancient liturgies both greek and latine . but there was a farther meaning in it , and that the people were for a time there to attend to their own private prayers , appears not improbable to me on these considerations . ( . ) gregory turonensis saith , in the place before mentioned , that the king took that time to speak to the people , who immediately break forth into a prayer for the king ; not that any collect was then read for him , for that was not the proper time for it ; but it being a time of secret prayers , they were so moved with what the king said , that they all pray'd for him . ( . ) among the heathens , when they were bidden favere linguis , yet then (n) brissonius saith , they made their private prayers ; and as the deacons commanding silence seems to be much of the same nature , it is not probable that the christians should fall short of their devotions . ( . ) the great argument to me , is the small number of collects in the ancient churches ; for the christians spent a great deal of time in the publick service , on the lord's-days , and the stationary days ; but all the other offices could not take up that time , there being no long extemporary prayers , nor such a multitude of tedious ceremonies in all parts , as the roman breviary and missal introduced , and the collects of greatest antiquity , being very few and short , it seems most probable , that a competent part of the time was spent in private devotions . a remainder whereof is still preserved in the office of ordination of priests in our church , whereby silence is commanded to be kept for a time , for the peoples secret prayers . and the same custome was observed at the bidding of prayers , which was a direction for the people what to pray for in their (o) private devotions ; after which follow'd the lord's-prayer as the concluding collect. but either that or another was still used after these silent prayers , and that is the true ancient reason of the name : for (p) micrologus saith , the name collecta was , because the priest therein did , omnium precescolligere , or , as (q) walafridus strabo saith , necessarias omnium petitiones compendiosâ brevitate colligere . this was distinct from the prayer made ad collectam , before the people went to the stationary churches ; of which onuphrius panvinius and fronto in his calendarium romanum have said enough . but as to the gallican churches , the (r) council of agde shews that after the other offices were performed in the morning and evening service , the people were to be dismissed by the bishop collectâ oratione , i. e. with a concluding collect. ( . ) as to the communion service (s) gennadius saith , that musaeus composed a large volume of the sacraments , with several offices according to the seasons , with a diversity of lessons , and psalms , and anthems , and prayers and thanksgivings . this book is called , liber sacramentorum , and so is gregory's , saith (t) menardus in several mss. and the old missal published by illyricus is called ordo sacramentorum ; which was the name given to the books of liturgick offices , which were called sacramenta , both by st. ambrose and st. augustine , as menardus shews . (u) cardinal bona confesses , that there is undoubted evidence , that the old gallican liturgy , differ'd from the roman ; and (w) charles the great , not onely saith , that there was such a difference in the celebration of the divine offices ; but that the gallican churches were very unwilling to change theirs for the roman , matthias flacius illyricus ( not flavius , as le cointe pretends to correct his name ) having found an ancient ms. missal , and discerning several different prayers in it from the roman missal , thought this to have been the ancient gallican missal , wherein he is followed by (x) le cointe , who hath printed it at large in his annals ; with an epitome of it published by menardus out of an ancient copy . but (y) he shews that illyricus his copy could not be of that antiquity he pretends , viz. before the time of gregory the great : there being several things in it not of that age ; which were not in the old missal of . and were in another of later date ; to which le cointe returns no answer ; but because this differs from the roman missal , he concludes it must be the gallican ; whereas , upon perusing it , it will appear rather to be a supplement to the roman missal for the devotion of those that celebrate it , consisting chiefly of private prayers to be used by them before celebration , and during the singing of the several hymns : for the common parts of the office , as the introitus , epistola , graduale , evangelium , offertorium , secreta , praefatio , communio , & post-communio , are onely referr'd to , and not set down ; whereas if this had been the gallican missal , all those parts would have been set down rather more distinctly than others . (z) card. bona thinks it not to have been before the end of the tenth century , about which time several such private missals were made . but he concludes , that certainly this was not the old gallican missal : what it was , he thinks hard to determine , and i think so too ; if such authours as hilduinus must be relied on . it is true , he mentions the old missals which contained the gallican liturgy from the first reception of the christian faith , till the roman missal was received ; but he is an authour of no authority , and quotes these missals for a thing notoriously false , viz. the martyrdom of dionysius areopagita in gaul . and he pretends , that innocentius , gelasius and gregory , all endeavour'd to alter the gallican liturgy , which continued in use till pepin's time : so that from hilduinus no certain note can be taken . it is much more material which (a) berno augiensis saith , that in the archives of their monastery , he found an old missal wherein the offices were very differently ordered from what they were in the roman . and he mentions one remarkable particular of the roman missal , which is the ( . ) difference i shall observe in the communion service , viz. that the creed was not said nor sung at rome after the gospel , of which he saith , they gave this reason , because the roman church was never infected with heresie ; which , he saith , the emperour henry i. was so little satisfied with , that he never ceased , till they had introduced it at rome ; which , saith (b) baronius , was done anno dom. . but he seems not pleased that the former custome was broken . before that time , none that speak of the customs of the roman missal ever mention the creed , as may be seen in alcuinus , amalarius , rabanus , and others . and this cannot be understood barely of the constantinopolitane or nicene creed , as (c) menardus well proves , because then berno would have spoken more distinctly . and the athanasian creed , as far as we can trace it , was first used in the gallican churches , and that use first mention'd by abbo floriacensis in some fragments sent by nicolaus faber to (d) baronius . but whosoever considers the universal silence about that creed before , and compares it with the profession of faith in the first canon of the fourth council of toledo , which then took so many of the gallican offices into the service of the spanish churches will see reason to believe that this creed was originally of a gallican composition , and thence was carried into spain upon the conversion of the goths from arianism , wherein several expressions are taken out of st. augustine's works . ruffinus shews , that those that were to be baptized did at rome repeat the creed ; but that is another thing from its use in the liturgy , which both baronius and (e) bona confess was so lately introduced at rome . so that here we have one considerable difference of the roman offices from those of other churches ; for (f) isidore saith , that the nicene creed was then used in the gothick churches in the time of sacrifice ; as the church service was then called ; for that it had no relation to that which is called the sacrifice of the mass , appears by concil . aurel. . can . . where we find the name of sacrifice applied to the evening service , sacrificia matutina missarum , sive vespertina ; and so (g) cassian uses sacrificia vespertina in allusion to the custome of sacrificing among the jews . and (h) honoratus , in the life of st. hilarius of arles , calls it sacrificium vespertinae laudis . and missa was then used for the publick service , as (i) cassander and others shew . in the rule of st. benedict , missae are to be taken for the concluding collects at the canonical hours . (k) cassian useth missa for any publick meeting at prayers , thence he speaks of missa nocturna and missa orationum , and missa canonica , for the nocturnal office among the monks ; and in the concil . agath . c. . we reade of missae vespertinae . but afterwards the name was appropriated to the most solemn part of publick worship , viz. the communion service . in which the creed was appointed by the third council of toledo , c. . in all the churches of spain and gallaecia ; or , as some copies have it , of gallia ; which is confirmed by an edict of reccaredus to that purpose ; which extended to that part of gallia narbonensis , then under the gothick power ; where a (l) council met under reccaredus , about the same time . in which gloria patri was decreed to be used at the end of every psalm ; which was observed by the other gallican churches in cassian's time . it seems very probable , that the spanish churches did follow the customs of the gallican in other parts of the divine offices as well as this ; which appears by the passage in the epistle of carolus calvus produced by (m) card. bona , where speaking of the ancient gallican offices before the introduction of the roman ; he saith , he had seen and heard how different they were by the priests of the church of toledo , who had celebrated the offices of their church before him . which had signified nothing to this matter , unless the gothick and gallican offices had then agreed . i do not say that the old gallican service can be gather'd from all the parts of the mozarabick liturgy , as it was settled by (n) card. ximenes , in a chapel of the church of toledo ; or as it is performed on certain days at salamanca , because many alterations might be in those offices as well as others in so long time ; and such no doubt there were , as (o) mariana confesseth , by the length of time ; although it did bear the name of leander and isidore . for (p) julianus toletanus is said to have review'd the whole office , and to have alter'd and added many things , and johannes caesaraugustanus and conantius , and after them petrus ilerdensis , and salvus abbaildensis , besides such whose names are not preserved ; but so far as we can trace the ancient customs of the gothick missal we may probably infer what the customs of the gallican churches at that time were , and thereby shew the difference between them and the roman offices . as besides this of the creed . ( . ) the prophetical lessons were always to be read by the rules of the mozarabick liturgy : and accordingly three books were laid upon the altar in the gallican churches , as (q) gregorius turonensis observes , that of the prophets , and of the epistles , and of the gospels . but nothing but the epistle and gospel were read at rome , as is shew'd already ; which manifests that the book under st. jerome's name , called the lectionarius or comes must be counterfeit ; because therein lessons out of the prophets are set down : and the authorities of berno augiensis , micrologus and radulphus tungrensis , which are the best (r) pamelius could find , are not great enough against so plain evidence to the contrary , to prove this lectionarius to have been made by st. jerome . and he confesses that amalarius several times onely mentions the auctor lectionarii without st. jerome's name , who lived a good while before them . but in this the roman church had its peculiar rites ; for , in the church of milan , first a lesson out of the prophets was read before the epistle , as appears by (s) sulpicius severus . and in the greek church , st. (t) basil saith , that lessons out of the old , as well as the new testament were read . by the (u) council of laodicea , all the canonical books were appointed to be read . zonaras observes , on the . canon of that council , that before this council there were nothing but prayers before the consecration : but therein he was certainly mistaken ; for (w) justin martyr shews , that the lessons were read long before , and that out of the prophets as well as apostles . but balsamon and aristenus restrain this canon onely to saturdays ; and it enjoins the reading of the gospels then , which was not accustomed before , there being no religious assemblies in those parts on that day : but by the same canon we find , that where the gospels were read , other scriptures were appointed to be read too . it is observed by (x) dominicus macer , that at the lessons of the old testament the greeks do sit ; but stand at those out of the new. (y) sozomen reckons it as a peculiar custome of alexandria . that the bishop did not rise up at the gospels : and nicephorus * callisthus saith , it was contrary to the practice of all other churches . ( . ) after the gospel , the sermon follow'd in other churches ; but in the old roman offices , there is no mention at all of any sermon to the people . (z) card. bona saith , that it hath been the uninterrupted practice of the church from the apostles times to our own , for the sermon to follow after the gospel : and he doth sufficiently prove the antiquity of it from the testimonies of justin martyr and tertullian , and the general practice of it in other churches , especially the gallican ; but he offers no proof , that it was observed in the church of rome . but (a) sozomen observes it as the peculiar custome of that church , that there was no preaching in it ; neither by the bishop , nor by any one else . valesius seems to wonder at it ; but he saith , if it had not been true , cassiodore , who certainly knew the customs of that church , would never have repeated it . in the sacramentary of gregory , the offertory immediately follows after the gospel ; and micrologus saith , finito evangelio , statim est offerendum , c. . and to the same purpose in the ordo romanus : but in the ordo of the western churches , published by (b) cassander with the other , there the bishop is to be attended on after the gospel , in order to his preaching ; but if he will not , then the creed is to be sung : and according to this custome the (c) gemma animae is to be understood when it saith , that after the gospel , the bishop preaches to the people . it is true , that in the church of rome , leo did make some sermons on solemn occasions ; but he was the first that did it , saith (d) quesnel , if sozomen may be believed . it is possible , that upon some extraordinary occasions , the bishops of rome might speak to the people before his time , as liberius is said , by st. (e) ambrose , to have done at st. peter's ; but this signifies nothing to the constant office of preaching which was not used in the church of rome by any bishop before leo , nor by many after , as it was in other churches . in the gallican churches , as (f) christianus lupus observes , the bishops called their office praedicationis officium ; as appears by the profession both of bishops and archbishops , among (g) sirmondus his formulae published out of ancient copies . and in the royal confirmation they were charged to be diligent in preaching . the same authour tells us , that charles the great was so strict in requiring it , that he made the penalty of the neglect of it to be no less than deposition . which is warranted by the apostolical canon . the council in trullo , c. . charges the bishops to preach constantly . but especially on the lord's-days ; the want whereof was extremely lamented afterwards in the greek church by (h) barlaam , and (i) gregorius protosyncellus . and the neglect of it in the armenian churches hath brought the episcopal order into so great contempt , as (k) clemens galanus reports , ( who was a long time among them ) that he saith , they use their bishops for little else but to give orders ; but the onely men in esteem are their vartabret ( whom he renders magistri , their preachers ; ) whom the people regard far beyond their bishops , because , they say , they represent christ himself , as he was rabbi , or the teacher of his church . but to return to the western churches . in the church of milan , (l) st. augustine saith , he heard st. ambrose every lord's-day ; and , he saith , (m) he accounted it the proper office of a bishop to preach ; which he performed , as in other churches (n) after the gospel , before the dismission of the catechumeni ; but by the mozarabick liturgy , the sermon was after their dismission . ( . ) the gallican churches had peculiar offices after the sermon ; so (o) walafridus strabo saith , that some of those prayers were still in use among many . and (p) micrologus , that the prayer , veni sanctificator , &c. was taken out of the gallican ordo . but , to make this more clear , we are to consider , that there were some parts of the communion service wherein all the ancient offices agreed ; as in the sursum corda , and habemus ad dominum used in the eastern , as well as western churches ; and there are as plain testimonies of their use in the african and gallican churches as the roman ; before the roman offices came to be imposed on other churches . the gratias agamus domino deo nostro , and vere dignum & justum est aequum & salutare , nos tibi semper & ubique gratias agere , are mention'd by st. cyril , st. chrysostome , st. augustine , and other ancient writers : this latter part in the mozarabick liturgy is called inlatio . the trisagion was generally used ; i do not mean that which was said to have come by revelation in the time of proclus at constantinople ; but that which the greeks call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and is called trisagium in the ambrosian missal , and was used with a more ample paraphrase in the eastern churches . all these parts are retained in the excellent office of our church ▪ not from the church of rome ( as our dissenters weakly imagine ) but from the consent of all the ancient churches in the use of them ; which it hath follow'd likewise in the putting them into a language understood by the people ( as (q) cassander fully shews . ) and in the use of the hymn , gloria in excelsis , which , with the addition to the scripture words , was used in the eastern churches , as appears by the (r) apostolical constitutions , and a passage in (s) athanasius his works , and several greek mss. of it ; this was called hymnus angelicus from the beginning of it , and hymnus matutinus from the ancient time of using it , as appears not onely from other mss. but from the famous alexandrian copy of the lxx . where it is set down in large letters , and called by the name of the morning hymn . it s use in the gallican church is attested by the ancient ms. in the beginning of this discourse ; and (t) alcuinus makes st. hilary of poictou to have been the inlarger of it . the prayer for the church militant ; for kings and princes ; and all ranks and orders of men ; the commemoration of saints departed ; the reading the words of institution ; and using the lord's-prayer ; were in all the ancient liturgies as parts of the communion service : and therefore are not to be look'd on as appropriated to the canon of the mass in the church of rome . wherein then did the difference consist between the roman and gallican churches at that time , as to this service ? in answer to this question , i shall go through the other parts of it , and shew the difference . ( . ) the gallican office began with a peculiar confession of sins made by the priest ; which was called apologia . a form whereof (u) cardinal bona hath published out of a very ancient ms. in the queen of sweden 's library ; and which he proves to have been the old gallican office. it is true , that several forms of such confessions , are in the (w) sacramentary of gregory ; but all different from the gallican form. in the old missal of rataldus , abbat of corbey , published by (x) menardus , instead of the apology , we reade that form , suscipe confessionem meam , unica spes salutis meae , domine deus meus , &c. and then follows a particular enumeration of sins , and a general confession of them . and a different form is produced by (y) menardus , out of another ancient missal , which he calls the codex tilianus , and seems most agreeable to the old gallican mention'd by bona ; and , there is a great variety of forms of confession and supplication in the old missal published by illyricus . but , i observe ; that the form prescribed in the roman missal is in none of them : viz. confiteor deo omnipotenti , b. mariae semper virgini , b. michaeli archangelo , &c. & omnibus sanctis , &c. ideo precor b. mariam , &c. omnes sanctos , &c. — orare pro me ad dominum nostrum : for all the ancient forms of confession were onely to god himself ; and so they continued for years after christ ; about which time menardus saith , the several ancient missals before mention'd do bear date . the common ritualists attribute the present form to pontianus , or damasus , but without any authority , saith (z) card. bona. the first mention i can find of confession to saints , is that which he sets down out of the codex chisii ; which being in the (a) lombard character , he ghesses to have been before the end of the tenth century , and with this (b) micrologus agrees ; the authour whereof lived towards the end of the eleventh century . so that this part of the roman missal was neither in the gregorian nor gallican offices , being of a much later original . ( . ) the gallican office had peculiar prefaces , and collects different from the roman . by the prefaces are understood that part of the service which immediately goes before the consecration , and is called in the gallican office , contestatio , in the gothick , illatio , shewing not onely the general fitness for us at all times , to give thanks to god ; but the particular reason of it , with respect to the day . of which kind of prefaces , the roman church allow'd but nine , which were attributed to pope gelasius ; but (c) card. bona saith , that number is to be found onely in the missals , after anno dom. . for before , there were many more , as appears by gregory's sacramentary ; but how they came to be left out afterwards in the roman missal is a mystery , of which none of the ritualists give any tolerable account . however this is enough to shew their ignorance , when they so confidently attributed the proper prefaces to gelasius ; as though gregory would have slighted so much the decree of his predecessours , as to have appointed so many more , if gelasius had limited the number to nine . but however it was in the roman church , the gallican church had peculiar prefaces for all solemn occasions . of which (d) card. bona hath produced three remarkable instances , two out of the former ancient ms. of nine hundred years old , which formerly belong'd to petavius , a senatour of paris ; and the third out of a copy of the palatine library , translated to the vatican , of the same age. from these excellent monuments of antiquity compared together we may in great measure understand the true order and method of the communion service of that time , both in the gallican and british churches , especially on saint's-days ; for no other offices are preserved , or at least made known to the world. and on those occasions the service began with particular collects for the day ; then follow'd the commemoration out of the diptychs ; then another collect , post nomina ; after which the collect , ad pacem ; then the particular prefaces relating to the saint whose memory was celebrated ; with a larger account of his good actions than is used in any of the gregorian prefaces , expressed in a devout and pathetical manner ; which ended in the trisagion ; and was continued by another collect to the consecration ; after which follow'd a devout prayer for benefit by the holy sacrament ; and after another collect for the occasion follow'd the lord's-prayer , with a conclusion for the day : and the whole service was concluded with a benediction of the people , a collect after the eucharist , and a short thanksgiving . this is a just and true account from these authentick offices of the publick service then used in the british churches following the gallican from the time of st. german , whose particular office is one of those preserved by card. bona ; and in the peculiar preface his great zeal is mention'd in preaching and going up and down doing good in gaul , italy and britain , for thirty years together . ( . ) as to the canon of the mass , as it is called in the church of rome , or the prayer of consecration used in the church of rome , and magnified as apostolical , st. (e) gregory affirms , as plainly as he well could , that it was first composed by a private person , and was not of apostolical tradition . who that scholar was , it is now impossible to know , and not at all material , since it is apparent that it was received into the publick vse of the church . some small additions , they say , were made to it by several popes , till gregory's time , who , according to the ritualists , shut up this canon . but i see no reason to believe that consecration of the eucharist , was at that time performed in other churches by the words of this canon . for , setting aside the eastern churches , which had forms of their own ; the african churches did not follow the roman form. for although (f) optatus mentions illud legitimum in sacramentorum mysterio ; which implies , that there was a certain form to be observed ; yet this doth not at all prove , that it was the roman canon : and it evidently appears that it was not , by the testimonies of (g) marius victorinus , and (h) fulgentius , two african writers , who both mention some prayers used in the eucharist , which are not in the roman canon , and those not prefatory ; but such as do relate to the main parts of the canon . it is true , the writer about the sacraments , under st. ambrose's name ( for (i) card. bona will not allow him to be st. ambrose ) doth produce several expressions in the form of consecration which agree with the roman canon ; but then he adds a very considerable passage , which i hardly believe , those who are most zealous for the roman canon will say , was ever part of it . (k) fac nobis hanc oblationem ascriptam , rationabilem , acceptabilem , quod est figura corporis & sanguinis domini nostri jesu christi . and in the gallican church , the form of consecration , as appears by the office of saint german , was nothing else but repeating the words of institution , after the conclusion of the irisagion , and gloria in excelsis . after which follow'd a prayer , for god's holy word and spirit to descend upon the oblation they made , that it might be a spiritual sacrifice well pleasing to god ; and that god , by the bloud of christ , would with his own right hand defend those his sacraments ; and then follow'd the lord's prayer and other collects . this prayer after consecration , card. bona knows not what to make of , as seeming wholly inconsistent with transubstantiation , for if that doctrine had been then believed , and by consecration the elements turn'd into the body of christ ; to what purpose doth the church then pray for the word and spirit to descend upon the elements , when they are actually united already ? but (l) he makes a very hard shift to interpret these words , not of a descent on the elements , but on the hearts of the communicants : but the words are , descendat super haec quae tibi offerimus verbum tuum sanctum , which are so plain and evident concerning the elements , that nothing but mere force , can make any man to understand them of the receivers . besides , that office concludes with a particular prayer for the benefit of those that had partaked of the body of christ , wherein this expression is remarkable , christe , domine , qui & tuo vesci corpore , & tuum corpus effici vis fideles , fac nobis in remissionem peccatorum esse quod sumpsimus , i. e. o christ , our lord , who wouldest have thy people eat thy body , and become thy body , grant that we may be that which we have taken for the remission of our sins . and it is certain , the meaning of this prayer was not that christians might become the natural body of christ ; and therefore it was not then believed , that the faithfull did in the eucharist take the natural body of christ ; but that which was the body of christ in such a mystical sense as the church is . but transubstantiation was no part of the faith of the church at that time , and therefore it is no wonder to meet with expressions so disagreeing to it in their solemn devotions . and it is well observed by (m) card. bona , that the custome of elevation of the host , in order to adoration , is found in none of the ancient sacramentaries , nor in the ordo romanus , not in the old ritualists , such as alcuinus amalarius , walafridus , micrologus and others . the same had been ingenuously confessed before by (n) menardus , in the same words : and although there may be elevation , where there is no belief of transubstantiation , yet , since the custome of elevation was lately introduced into the western churches , and in order to adoration of the body of christ then present by transubstantiation ; it seems very probable , that doctrine was not then received by the church , the consequences whereof were not certainly in use : for there was as much reason for the elevation and adoration at that time as ever could be afterwards . but my business is now onely to shew wherein the gallican and british churches differ'd from the roman , and not wherein they agreed . ( . ) the last difference was as to the church musick , wherein the romans were thought so far to excell other western churches , that the goodness of their musick proved the great occasion of introducing their offices : for (o) charles the great saith , that his father pepin brought the roman way of singing into the gallican churches , and their offices along with it . and although he saith , many churches stood out then , yet by his means they were brought to it . and he caused some of the best masters of musick in rome to be brought into france , and there settled for the instruction of the (p) french churches : by which means the old gallican service was so soon forgotten , that in (q) carolus calvus his time , he was forced to send as far as toledo , to have some to perform the old offices before him ; so great a power had the roman musick , and the prince's authority in changing the ancient service of the gallican churches . but thus much may suffice to have cleared the ancient service of these western churches , and to have shew'd their difference from the roman offices . from which discourse it will appear , that our church of england hath omitted none of those offices wherein all the ancient churches agreed ; and that where the british or gallican and roman differ'd , our church hath not follow'd the roman , but the other ; and therefore our dissenters do unreasonably charge us with taking our offices from the church of rome . chap. v. of the declension of the british churches . britain never totally subdued by the romans . that , the occasion of the miseries of the britains in the province , by the incursions from beyond the wall. of the picts , and scots their mortal enemies . the true original of the picts from scandinavia . that name not given to the old britains , but to the new colonies . the scotish antiquities enquired into . an account of them from john fordon compared with that given by hector boethius and buchanan . of hector's authours , veremundus , cornelius hibernicus and their ancient annals . an account of the antiquities of ireland , and of the authority of their traditions and annals , compared with the british antiquities published by geffrey of monmouth in point of credibility . a true account of the fabulous antiquities of the northern nations . of the first coming of the scots into britain . the first cause of the declension and ruine of the british churches was , the laying them open to the fury of the scots and picts . of maximus his withdrawing the roman forces ; and the emperour 's sending numbers of picts to draw them back . the miserable condition of the britains thus forsaken ; and supplies sent them for a time , and then taken away . of the walls then built for their security , and the roman legions then placed . of the great degeneracy of manners among the britains . of intestine divisions , and calling in of foreign assistence . the saxons first coming hither . who they were , and whence they came . bede's account examin'd , and reconciled with the circumstances of those times . his fixing the time of their coming justified . of the reasons of vortigern's calling in the saxons . and the dissatisfaction of the britains upon their coming , and vortigern's league with them . of the valour of vortimer and aurelius ambrosius against the saxons . the different account of the battels between the britains and saxons among our historians . the sad condition of the british churches at that time . the imperfect account given by the british history . of king arthur's story and success . of persons of greatest reputation then in the british churches , and particularly of st. david . of the britains passing over to aremorica . the beginning of that colony stated . gildas there writes his epistle ; the scope and design of it . the independency of the british churches proved from their carriage towards augustine the monk. the particulars of that story cleared ; and the whole concluded . being now to give an account of the fatal declension of the british churches , it will be necessary to look back on the time when their miseries first began . for which we are to consider , that the romans having never made an entire conquest of the whole island ; but contenting themselves with the better part , and excluding the rest by a wall ; they still left a backdoor open for the poor provincial britains to be disturbed , as often as the roman garrisons neglected their duty or were overpowred by their enemies . who were now very much increased in those remoter parts of britain ; which being abandon'd by the romans , they became an easie prey to the scots and picts ; who , from different parts , took possession of those coasts which lay nearest to the place from whence they came . thus , the scots coming from ireland , entred upon the southern and western parts , as the picts from scandinavia had before done on the northern . our learned (a) antiquary was of opinion , that the picts were no other than the ancient britains , partly settled in those parts , before the roman invasion , and partly retiring thither out of impatience of the roman yoke , who by degrees grew up into a considerable number of people . it is not to be question'd , that there was a stock of old britains in those northern parts , as appears by the army under galgacus , and the actions against vrbicus , agricola , marcellus and severus ; but their continual wars with the roman legions , who were placed about the wall , on purpose to take all advantages against them , must needs exhaust them by degrees , and lessen them so much as to leave room enough for new recruits to come in and take up part of their countrey . and although for their own security , the parts near the wall might be well supplied on that side , yet when so much bloud retired to the heart as was necessary to support life , a great deal must be called off from the extreme parts for a fresh supply of it , and those parts must needs be left destitute of natural heat , and strength enough to maintain themselves . for during the war , which continued for several ages , the very life of the british nation , beyond the wall , was in perpetual danger ; and not onely the duty and service , but the many diseases and accidents of war , could not , in so long a tract of time , but very much impair the british strength , and leave the remoter parts , if not wholly void of inhabitants , yet not in a condition to withstand a foreign invasion . i grant that tacitus , dio , herodian , vopiscus , &c. take no notice of any other enemies the romans hād at that time in those parts besides the britains ; but then , i think , the argument may be thus turned upon camden , what makes the latter writers so expresly and distinctly mention the picts , if they were no other than the old britains , so often spoken of by roman historians ? i do not understand , why their continuing an old custome should now give them a new name ? the britains , however rude , were no more picts then , than they were at caesar's coming . what makes the roman writers so of a sudden alter their style , and leave off a name so famous among the romans , for the name of picts , which was not heard of before ? the first mention we find of them is in (b) eumenius his panegyrick to constantius , where he takes notice of the different state of the britains , when caesar subdued them , from what they were in constantius his time : then , saith he , they were a rude , half naked people , and so easily vanquished ; but now the britains were exercised by the arms of the picts and the irish. nothing can be plainer , than that eumenius here distinguishes the picts from the britains , and supposes them to be enemies to each other . neither can we reasonably think this a name then taken up to distinguish the barbarous britains from the provincial : for that distinction had now been of a very long standing , and if it had been applied to that purpose , we should have met with it in tacitus , or dio , or herodian , or zosimus , who speak of the extra-provincial britains , under no other name but of britains . (c) dio is so exact as to set down the names of distinction then used for those britains , and he saith , they were of two sorts , the maeatae , and the caledonii ; if the name of picts had then comprehended them all , no doubt he would have mention'd it on that occasion . (d) zonaras likewise calls them all then by the name of britains . but it is said , that the (e) panegyrist himself calls the caledonians , picts , who were certainly britains . his words are , non dico caledonum , aliorúmque pictorum , silvas & paludes : where h. valesius observes , it ought to be read , non dicaledonum aliorúmque pictorum ; for (f) ammianus marcellinus saith , the picts were divided into the dicaledones and the vecturiones . it is ingeniously conjectured by mr. camden , that these names were taken from the situation of the people , the first from dehe● and caledones , or the caledonians on the right-hand , and the other from chwithic , which signifies the left-hand in the british language ; but archbishop (g) vsher observes , that he is mistaken , in supposing the right-hand among the britains to be the west , and the left-hand the east ; for he plainly proves , that by the one is understood the south , and the other the north. and (h) bede shews , that the northern and southern picts were divided from each other by a ridge of mountains ; which (i) john fordon saith , was mount grampius , which parted the scots and the picts . for the scots came into that part of the picts countrey which lay next to ireland ; from whence they came thither under the conduct of reuda , as (k) bede saith . who , as some think , was the chief of the six sons of the king of ulster , who , as giraldus cambrensis saith , with no small fleet , came into the northern parts of britain , and there settled themselves ; from whom that countrey was called scotia . which , if it happen'd in the time of constantius , as archbishop (l) vsher proves from the anonymous life of st. patrick , it agrees very well with what (m) ammianus marcellinus saith , that in the latter end of his reign , the scots and the picts were both joined against the britains . the scots , as (n) gildas and (o) bede say , coming from the west , and the picts from the north ; and so fabius ethelwerd saith , the picts came from the north , and the scots from the west ; who took possession of the southwest parts of caledonia beyond glota , and bodotria , or dumbritton , and edenborough frith . and so , the mons grampius , or the dorsum britannicum , as some call it , parted the picts and the scots ; the old britains still living between the wall and the two friths ; for bede expresly saith , that both the scots and the picts lived beyond them ; and he likewise adds , that upon the remove of the roman legion they took in all the countrey as far as severus his wall ; where the britains dwelt before . i confess , the roman province had different bounds at several times , it sometimes extending as far as antoninus his wall , or graham's dike between the two friths ; sometimes again it was brought within the compass of hadrian and severus his wall , id est , between the tine and the esk ; and bede thinks that the last wall made by the romans was where severus his wall stood . if so , that whole countrey between the two walls must be then abandon'd for miles ; which (p) some object against as an improbable thing , the wall being so much longer , and consequently more indefensible by the britains . but , in probability , the britains were then willing to let their enemies have the more room to prevent being disturbed by them ; and this was the main security they always had , the linea valli relating to this wall from hadrian's time ; and although sometimes in a bravery the roman souldiers would march to antoninus his wall , and drive the britains before them , yet generally the roman province was bounded by severus his wall , and therefore gallio ravennas might at last chuse rather to make up and fortifie this for the britains , when the roman souldiers left them to defend themselves . but , as to the several inhabitants beyond the wall , it will be necessary , in order to the following history , to set down a more particular account in this place of the different original of them , which hath been so perplexed by the partial conjectures of the scottish and irish antiquaries , that it is no easie matter to find out the plain truth amongst them . but i shall endeavour to trace the footsteps of it by the best light which ancient or modern authours afford . and i am so far from any pique or partiality in this matter that i shall be glad to receive any better information from learned and ingenuous men. for it will appear by this enquiry that the antiquities of both nations do yet stand much in need of being cleared to the satisfaction of inquisitive men. but to the business . it is certain that in the time of tacitus , the northern parts of this island were well inhabited , as appears by the following account from him . the brigantes , who extended as far as the tine , were , as (q) he saith , subdued by petilius cerealis ; the silures , by julius frontinus ; the ordovices , the other people of wales ; by julius agricola in his first entry upon this province . but in his third year he went as far as the frith of taus : by which sir h. savil saith , some understand the tweed ; for that it cannot be understood of the taus , which parts the northern and the southern parts of scotland , seems evident from tacitus , who saith , that the romans had leisure to build castles there : but this taus is a great way beyond the two friths ; and tacitus , in the fourth year of agricola , makes the roman power to reach no further than to glota and bodotria , where he thought the romans might have conveniently fixed the bounds of their empire that way . but , i confess , tacitus his words may bear another meaning , viz. that although the romans had made excursions as far as the taus , and set up some forts there ; yet when agricola went about to settle the province , he reduced it within the compass of the two friths ; there being the most convenient place for the garrison to be fixed ; there being so small a neck of land between the armes of the two seas , which was then very well fortified . but the boundless ambition of the romans , in the fifth year of agricola , carried them beyond these limits ; and then he subdued nations before that time unknown ; and furnished with forces that part of britain which lieth against ireland : not out of fear of any invasion from thence ; but rather in hopes of subduing that countrey by their means . which shews that ireland was then well peopled ; and thought by agricola very fit for the roman army to conquer ; because it lay so convenient for uniting the parts of the empire together ; and it would help much towards the total subduing of britain , if there were no appearance of liberty left within their view . and tacitus insinuates that agricola had it in his design , if he had been suffer'd to continue longer after his victory over galgacus : which domitian's incurable jealousie of great men would not permit . however , in order to it , agricola had taken an account of the ports , and condition of the people , whom he found not unlike the britains ; and he kept with him till occasion served , one of the princes of that countrey , who was driven from thence by a domestick sedition . but in the mean time , in his sixth year , he applied himself to the conquest of the several nations beyond bodotria , among whom a general insurrection was apprehended , and all passages by land were supposed to be beset ; and therefore agricola set out a fleet for discovery of the countrey ; the sight whereof struck great terrour into the britains . and then he saith , the caledonians armed themselves and set upon the romans with all the force they could make ; and falling upon the ninth legion unexpectedly , had like to have totally defeated them , if the rest of the army had not come in to their timely rescue . by which good success , the roman army , being much incouraged , cried out to march into caledonia ; that they might at last come to the utmost bounds of britain . but the britains attributed this not to the valour of the romans , but to the ill conduct of their general ; and therefore resolved to fight it out , and to that end they disposed of their wives and children in places of safety , and by frequent meetings and solemn sacrifices they entred into a strict confederacy , to stand it out to the utmost against the romans . and in this case of common danger , all the cities were united together , and raised an army of men , under the command of galgacus , who , in his brave oration , so much commended by lipsius , tells his souldiers , they were the last of the britains , there being no nation beyond them ; and he calls them , the most noble of the britains , who had never beheld the slavery of others ; upon this the fatal battel was fought at the foot of mons grampius , where britains were killed , and the rest dispersed ; after which agricola was recalled . this is the substance of tacitus his relation , wherein we may observe ; ( . ) that these britains were not merely such as were driven thither by the stress of war , but such as had long inhabited there , and had so little communication with the other britains , that they had never seen the condition of slavery which the romans had brought them to . ( . ) that they were not inconsiderable for their numbers or valour , who were able to oppose the whole roman army , and make their victory so doubtfull . ( . ) that these had a distinct name from the rest , being in general called the caledonian britains : and tacitus thinks they had a different original from the silures , and other britains . those who adjoined to gaul , he concludes came at first from thence , and had several colonies follow'd them afterwards , as appears by their names , customes and language ; the silures he deduced from spain , which he proves from their complexion and situation ; and so probably enough , he thinks them a colony of the old iberi ; some whereof went into ireland , and peopled some part of it : but , besides these two , he makes a third race of men in britain , whom he fetches out of germany , and these were the caledonian britains ; but r he takes germany in a very large sense , so as to extend as far as the sarmatae ; and to comprehend under it , the northern nations of the cimbri , and the gothones , and the sucones ; from whom it seems very probable , that the caledonian britains descended ; as the southern britains came from the celtae ; whose language and religion were kept up among them . but the caledonians came from the european scythians , to whose coasts they lay much nearer than to those of the celtae , and their larger proportions , which tacitus observes agree very well with this supposition . and these , if i mistake not , were the original picts , but not called by that name , till new colonies came over to people the countrey , after the terrible devastation of it by the continuance of the roman wars . for s claudian makes thule the countrey of the picts ; and after all the disputes which have been about it , t olaus rudbeck hath made it very probable , that scandinavia is meant by it ; which he proves , not onely from the testimony of procopius , who affirms it ; but from the exact agreement of the relations of pytheas , isidorus , and others with that , and neither with iseland , nor any other place . besides , u bede saith , the common tradition was , that the picts came out of scythia ; which is affirmed by matt. westminster , and many others : but they do not mean the asian , but the european scythia ; which comprehended under it all the most northern nations , ab extremo aquilone , saith w pliny ; and elsewhere he saith , x that the getae , the daci and sarmatae , and even the germans were called scythians : y herodotus mentions the northern scythians to whom there was no access by those who dwelt near the palus maeotis without the help of seven languages ; and when darius fought with them , they retired northwards towards their own countrey . z ptolemy places the royal scythians near the hyperborean mountains ; which could never be found in the vast plains of poland and muscovy ; there being no mountains there answering to their description as a hebersteinius and b matthias à micou confess ; and therefore c olaus rudbeck hath undertaken to prove , not without great shew of reason , that these mountains were no other than the ridge of mountains in sweden , where the seat of the ancient scythians was ; and that ptolemy was extremely mistaken in the situation of the northern nations , removing them several degrees more eastward than they ought to have been , and so very much straitning scandinavia . which d jornandes calls the work-house of nations ; and the same jornandes affirms from josephus , that the sueones were the true scythians , whom e xenophon takes to be the governing people of europe in his time ; as the persians were in asia and the carthaginians in africa . and the old greek f geographers ( as is said before ) knew of but two nations in europe besides themselves , viz. the scythae towards the north , and the celtae towards the west . these european scythians did make frequent expeditions by sea , as appears by the old gothick histories ; and g olaus rudbeck observes from them , that it was a custome for them to go abroad by sea , under the conduct of one of their princes , to see for booty ; and h tacitus saith particularly of the sueones , that they were well provided of shipping ; and therefore there can be no improbability that these northern nations should people that part of britain which lay nearest to them . and i sueno , the first historian of denmark , saith , that helghi , the son of haldan , the son of skiold , the first monarch there , was so powerfull at sea , that he was called rex maris , the king of the sea. and k saxo grammaticus saith , that , having subdued the king of the sclavi , he sailed into divers passages of the sea. l andreas velleius gives this reason why the northern nations were so soon and so much given to expeditions by sea , because their kings having many children , they thought them best employ'd abroad , in seeking other countries and getting spoils at sea. and upon the old boast of the scythians concerning their antiquity and nobility might be grounded that saying of galgacus , that the caledonian britains were the most noble of any of them . among these scythians m pliny reckons the agathyrsi ; who had their name , saith n olaus rudbeck , from aggathyr , one of the gothick names for neptune : from agga , signifying power at sea ; and tyr , power at land ; these agathyrsi , saith he , were a sort of people who lived near the sea , in the sinus codanus , and were wont to prey upon the spoils of the sea. iornandes places them in scandia , and calls them agantzyrios . they were remarkable in antiquity for painting their bodies , as not onely appears from virgil's pictique agathyrsi , but from what o solinus saith of them , that their bodies were painted colore caeruleo , just as the old picts were . p tacitus observes of the arii , a fierce northern people , that they had tincta corpora , i. e. were picts . and the same q virgil saith of the geloni , who were next neighbours to the agathyrsi : so that r hector boethius his conjecture is not at all improbable , who deduces the picti from the agathyrsi , i. e. from the maritime inhabitants of the baltick sea ; or , as he expresses it , from those who came first out of sarmatia into the cimbrick chersonese , and from thence into scotland . this being to me the most probable account of the original of the picts , i now come to that of the scots . and , to doe right to all pretenders , i shall impartially set down the several claims of the scotish and irish antiquaries , and in passing make some remarks upon them . i begin with the scotish pretences , s dempster hath given a large catalogue of the scotish antiquaries ( whom he never saw ) such as marcerius , the first writer of their history , whom he places anno dom. . from him , t he saith , veremundus took his materials , ( whom hector boethius professes to follow ) and cornelius hibernicus , another of hector's great authours , who is said by him to have lived anno dom. . about years after veremundus , according to dempster's computation . lesly ( or robert turner , as some think ) mentions some ancient annals , which hector takes no notice of in particular , but dempster doth , as those of paslet and scone , and other monasteries . it would tend very much to the clearing of the scotish antiquities if some of these ancient annals or lieger books were printed by some of their learned men , who have never been wanting in that nation since hector's time . and it hath rendred their credit the more suspicious , because they have been so long kept up , when all the old annals which have been found among us have either been carefully published , or our writers have on all occasions appealed to their authority , and made use of their own words to justifie their assertions . whether this hath been done by hector , buchanan or lesly , as to these annals , i leave the reader to determine . i omit dempster's other ancient authours , who were never heard of by any besides himself ; but it is somewhat strange , that even such as veremundus and cornelius should never fall into any hands ( that i can find ) but those of hector boethius ; and that he should never so much as mention john fordon's scoti-chronicon . pits confounds this authour with john de fordam , confessour to our king john , and so places him anno dom. . wherein he is follow'd by the learned u ger. vossius . he was abbat of ford in devonshire , saith leland , and he mentions no historical writings of his . but it is certain that john fordon , who wrote the scoti-chronicon , lived after this time , by the authours he quotes ( such as the w poly-chronicon of ranalphus higden , the polycraticon of roger of chester , who both lived in the fourteenth century . ) and x maculloch , who transcribed and inlarged it , lived , saith dempster , anno dom. . for it appears by the preface , debitor sum fateor , &c. that john fordon ( who is there called a presbyter , and no monk ) finished no more than five books of the scoti-chronicon ; but left the materials to make up the rest ; and that fordon's own work was but lately done , before maculloch undertook to finish and inlarge it , who professes himself a disciple of fordon 's ; and distinguishes his own additions from fordon's copy , by putting in the margin scriptor & autor . but y dempster makes maculloch , scoti-chronicon , and fordon , three several authours , which is a sign he never saw them . mr. z camden takes notice how much the later scotish historians are beholding to fordon 's diligence . and therefore out of him i shall give a short account of the scotish antiquities ; and then shew how far major , hector boethius and buchanan differ from him : for lesly doth very faithfully contract hector where buchanan was ashamed to follow him ; as will appear by what follows . there was , saith a fordon , one gaithelos , son of neolus , one of the kings of greece , who , having displeased his father , was banished his countrey , and went into egypt , where he was married to scota , the king's daughter . but he quotes another chronicle , which saith , that he was sent to the assistence of the king of egypt , against the ethiopians ; who gave him his onely daughter scota to wife ; and the legend of st. brendan to the same purpose ; and another chronicle , which makes him to be grandchild to nimrod , who was driven into egypt , and there married this scota . however they differ in lesser circumstances , they agree in the main point ; for scota he must have , or else the name of scotia would be quite lost . after the destruction of pharaoh in the red sea , gaithelos is chosen king ; but , discontents arising , he and his wife scota , with their company , put to sea , and made westward ; but , after many difficulties , they landed in spain , where , after the conquest of the inhabitants , he built the city brigantia ; but , being wearied out with continual wars , he sent some of his company to sea to find out an island without inhabitants ; upon discovery whereof they returned to gaithelos ; who soon after died , and charged his children and friends to go thither ; and accordingly his sons , iber and imec , went to take possession of this island , which from him was called ibernia , and from his mother scotia ; which name was after given to part of britain ; because the inhabitants of the other island settled , there ( saith maculloch , in his additions to fordon ) as appears by the affinity of their language and customs , which , saith he , continues to this day . in spain some of that race abode , saith fordon , out of an old chronicle , years ; then arose a king , whom he calls micelius , who had three sons , hermonius , partholomus and hibertus , whom he sent into ireland with a great army ; the eldest returned to spain ; but the other two continued there . afterwards simon brek with his company made a third descent into ireland , who sprang from hermonius , and carried along with him the marble chair in which their kings were wont to sit , and which gathelus brought out of egypt , as some think ; but others say , simon drew it up from the bottom of the sea with an anchor in a great tempest , and therefore was preserved as a precious relict ; and he took it as a presage of his kingdom , which was to continue wherever that stone was ; as the southsayers said . from ireland , ethachius rothay , a descendent from simon brek , took possession of the island rothsay ; and many scots associated with the picts in the northern parts of britain ; but being hardly used , and having no head , fergus , the son of fercard , or ferard , being descended of the royal family , went over , and took upon him the government of them . which , he saith , was before christ years , in the time of alexander the great ; who carried the fatal chair into scotland , and was crowned in it . some time after him succeeded rether , whom bede calls reuda , who endeavour'd to inlarge the borders of the scots in those parts , and fixed himself in that which from him was called retherdale , but since rydisdale ; and this he makes the second coming of the scots out of ireland . after this , he tells how the kings of the britains , of the scots , and the picts lived very lovingly together till julius caesar disturbed them all , who , he saith , went to the very borders of scotland ; and there sent letters to the kings , both of the scots and picts , who both returned answers in latin , although but the chapter before he saith , the very britains had never heard of the name of the romans . but it happen'd , that caesar , hearing of the revolt of the gauls , made a speedy return out of those parts . then he relates the bloudy wars of the scots and picts against the britains ; and how fulgentius , head of the britains , joined with the picts and scots against severus , and killed him at york : and so proceeds in the story of carausius and maximus , and their wars with the scots and picts , till he comes to fergus ii. with whom he begins his third book ; and between the two fergusses he reckons forty five kings ; but he confesses he cannot distinguish the times of their reign ; as he can do those from fergus ii. and he gives this considerable reason for it , nam ad plenum scripta non reperimus , i. e. he could not find any full account of them in any ancient annals or records . and therefore it ought to be considered from whence hector , buchanan and lesly should be able to give such a particular account of the reigns of those kings which were wholly unknown to fordon . this is the short account of what fordon delivers about these remoter antiquities of the scots . (b) joh. major confesseth , that the scots were derived from the irish , which , he saith , is plain by the language ; for in his time , half the nation spake irish , and before that time , more . and so he tells the story of their coming from spain , of the city braganza , of iberus and his mother scota , and then repeats the tradition of gathelus , as fordon relates it ; but very honestly saith , that he looks on that part of it , about coming out of greece and egypt as a fiction ; and very probably conjectures it was done , because the britains derived themselves from the trojans . which was subtily done of the scots to claim kindred rather with the conquering greeks , than the subdued and banished trojans . all that major asserts is , that the irish came out of spain , and the scots out of ireland : and the story of simon brek he rejects as a fable : and he makes the first settling of the scots in britain , to be that under reuda ; but he mentions their annals for fergus , the son of ferchard , before reuda ; and rether and ryddesdale , as it is in fordon . but he makes the kingdoms of the picts , scots and britains to be distinct in caesar's time ; and that they all joined against him : and so relates fordon's story to the time of fergus ii. but between the two fergusses he makes but kings , and years . (c) hector boethius , before he begins the tradition of gathelus , very ingenuously confesses , that their nation follow'd the custome of other nations , therein making themselves the offspring of the greeks and egyptians ; and so he tells all the story from gathelus , as fordon has done , onely here and there making additions and embellishments of his own ; as when he derives the brigantes from brigantia in spain ; when he sets down the deliberation about the form of government upon fergus his coming to scotland ; and the speeches of fergus and the king of the picts ; the death of coilus king of the britains ; the entring the fundamental contract of the scots , with the posterity of fergus in marble tables in the way of hieroglyphicks ; the agrarian law , and partition made by seven , and the division of the tribes ; the bringing the silures , ordovices , camelodunum , as well as the brigantes , within the compass of scotland ; these are the proper inventions of hector , unless he had them from his spaniard veremundus , which no one could tell but himself ; thence leland and (d) lluyd charge him with innumerable falshoods . (e) dempster confesses , that buchanan frequently chastises him ; but he would have it rather on the account of religion than learning : but it is plain , that he owns his mistakes and (f) vanity , onely he charges lluyd with as great on behalf of the britains . in the second book hector inlarges more . for (g) fordon passeth on from fergus to rether , or bede's reuda , having nothing to say ; but hector acquaints us with the contest about the regency upon fergus his death , and the law then made concerning it , the attempt of resignation of feritharis , to ferlegus , the son of fergus , and his imprisonment upon it ; the death of feritharis after fifteen years reign ; the flight of ferlegus into britain , with the choice of main , his younger brother , to be king ; his good government and annual progress for justice through all places of his dominions ; his appointing circles of great stones for temples , and one in the middle for the altar ; and the monthly worship of the new moon ; and several egyptian sacrifices ( which one would have thought had been more proper for gathelus himself ) with the succession of his son dornadil , his making the laws of hunting , which were still observed there ; and of his brother nothatus , his son reuther being an infant : who came in by the law of regency , saith hector ; by the power of the people saith buchanan ; but in truth by neither . for all this succession seems to have been the product of hector's fruitfull invention , which buchanan follows without authority ; as he doth in all the rest of the succession of that race of kings from reuther to fergus ii. to make way for bede's account of reuda's coming into those parts of britain , this reuther is forced back into ireland ; from whence he is said to return with new supplies after twelve years ; from whom the scots were then called dalreudini : but this return of reuther , hector places in the year before christ . and after him reutha , his kinsman ; in whose time , hector relates an embassy from ptolemy philadelphus to him ; and the account of scotland which he began in a large volume for his satisfaction , which was after finished by ptolemy the cosmographer . this buchanan had the wit to leave out ( and even (h) dempster himself ; though he mentions him for a writer of their history ) and so he doth the voyage of the two spanish philosophers in the time of josina , and their preaching against the egyptian worship in scotland ; ( but lesly hath it . ) and if buchanan had believed it , he would have set it down , as well as josina's bringing physick and chirurgery into so much request . that there was not a noble man that could not practise the latter . and yet hector declares immediately after the story of the philosophers , that hitherto he had followed veremundus , john campbell and cornelius hibernitus , the most approved authours of their history . it would have been some satisfaction to the world , if any other person had seen these authours besides ; fordon never mentions them ; and yet he used great diligence to search their antiquities ; and , if (i) dempster may be believed , had the sight of their most ancient mss. buchanan passes them over ; dempster names them , on the authority of hector : what became of these great authours afte● hector's time ? did he destroy them , as some say polydore virgil did some of ours after he had used them ? but this were madness , to quote their authority and destroy the authours ; for these were his vouchers ; which ought most carefully to have been preserved . and in truth hector himself gives no very consistent account of his authours : for in his epistle to james . he mentions veremundus , archdeacon of st. andrew's , who deduced the scotish history from the original to malcolm iii. and turgott , bishop of st. andrew's , and john campbell , which were brought from the island iona ; to whom he adds an anonymous authour , and the imperfect history of william elphinston , bishop of aberdeen . but , saith he , if any ask such a material question , how came these authours to be seen no where else ? he answers , that edw. i. destroy'd all their monuments of antiquity ; so that had not those been preserved in the island iona with the chest of books which fergus ii. brought from the sacking of rome , in the time of alaric , they had been able to give no account of their antiquities . from whence it is evident that hector never saw or heard of any ancient authours of their history , but such as were conveyed to him from the island iona. but in his (k) seventh book , where he gives a more particular account of those books which were brought to him from thence , he onely mentions some broken fragments of latin authours ; but whose they were , where written , whence they came , he knew not ; and , as to their own histories , he names indeed veremundus and elphinston , and no more . the latter he said before was imperfect , and lately done ; so that the whole credit of hector's antiquities rests entirely upon veremundus ; for here he never takes notice of campbell or cornelius hibernicus ; but he saith , edw. i. had destroy'd all their antiquities , but such as were preserved in the island iona or hy. and is this now a good foundation to build a history upon ? for is it not very strange , that no one copy of veremundus should be heard of since that time ; when there were several of fordon , not onely there , but in our libraries , some with the inlargements and some without ? but if our king edw. i. destroy'd all their ancient histories , how came turgott's to be preserved ? he was bishop of st. andrew's in the time of malcolm iii. and queen margaret , whose lives he wrote ; and whose history , hector saith , he had . so that not onely turgott's history of the church of durham is preserved in the cotton library , with his own name written in an ancient character ( the same that is printed under the name of simeon dunelmensis , with some alterations , as (l) mr. selden hath shewed ; but if hoveden be so much to blame , as (m) leland saith , for concealing what he borrow'd from simeon dunelmensis , simeon himself is at least as much to blame for assuming to himself the proper work of turgott . ) but it seems hector had seen what he wrote in relation to the scotish history : and bale and pits say , he wrote of the kings of scotland . but dempster saith , he wrote onely the annals of his own time , i. e. i suppose , the lives of malcolm and margaret : if so , hector mentions him to little purpose , with respect to the scotish antiquities . but however , from the forementioned authours , hector pretends to give an account of the institution of the great council by finannus , of the order of the druids , and their chief seat in the island mona , ( which he would have to be the isle of man , to the great regret of humphrey lluyd , who hath written a book on purpose to disprove him and polydore virgil about it . ) of the tyranny and violent death of king durstus ; of the choice of euenus his kinsman to succeed him , and his first requiring an oath of allegeance ; of the disturbances by gillus his natural son , and his flying into ireland : and his death by cadallus ; and euenus his setting up edecus , the grandchild of durstus ; with which he ends his second book . in his third book he gives an account of the troubles from ireland by bredius , a kinsman of gillus ; of cassibellan's message to ederus for assistence against julius caesar : and the speech of androgeus before the council : and ederus his answer , and sending men under the command of cadallanus , son to cadallus ; who , with the british forces , quite overthrew caesar , by the help of tenantius , duke of the cambri and corinei ; for which , as we may easily conceive , there was wonderfull rejoicing in scotland : and great friendship upon it , between the britains , the picts and the scots . but next summer they hear the sad news of caesar's coming again ; and then the britains refused the scots assistence ( and it is easie to imagine what must follow ) the poor britains were miserably beaten ; and cassibellan yields himself to caesar , and caesar marches towards scotland ; but before he enters it , he sends a more eloquent letter to them than that in fordon ; and the scots and picts returned a resolute answer . but it seems caesar had so much good nature in him as to send a second message to the scots , which was deliver'd with great eloquence , but it did not work upon them ; for , saith hector , had it not been for the law of nations , they had torn the messengers to pieces . but it happen'd luckily , that while caesar was making preparations to enter scotland , he received letters from labienus of the revolt of the gauls ; upon which caesar returns , having scarce so much as frighted the picts and the scots . and here again hector vouches the authority of veremundus and campbell ; but notwithstanding , buchanan very wisely leaves all this out , which lesly , believing veremundus , or rather hector before caesar , keeps in . but here hector becomes very nice and critical , rejecting the vulgar annals ( which it seems were not destroy'd by edw. i. ) which say , that caesar went as far as the caledonian wood , and besieged camelodunum , and left there his pretorian house which he used to travell with , called julis hoff. but for his part , he would write nothing that might be found fault with , and therefore he follows veremundus again , that this was the temple of victory , built by vespasian , not far from camelodunum ; onely the inscription was defaced by edw. i. buchanan in the life of king donald saith , this was the temple of the god terminus : being near the roman wall. it was a round building , made of square stones , and open onely at the top cubits in height , in breadth , as (n) camden describes it . (o) nennius saith , it was built by carausius , in token of his triumph . but this looks no more like a triumphal arch , than caesar's travelling palace : and therefore buchanan's opinion seems most probable , since hector saith , that there was within it a stone of great magnitude , which was the representation of the god terminus , especially , if the hole in the top were over the stone , as it was in the capitol at rome . then follow the wicked life and tragical end of euenus iii. the good reign of metellanus , and his friendship with augustus , which he goes about to prove from strabo : but he had better kept to veremundus . after him succeeded caratacus , born at caractonium , a city of the silures , saith hector , and that he might be sure to confound all , he saith , his sister voada was married to arviragus , king of the britains ; but he divorced her , and married geuissa , a noble roman ; upon which caratacus joined the britains against the romans , and was at last beaten by them , and betrayed by cartumandua , his mother-in-law , who , after his father's death , was married to venusius , and was by ostorius carried in triumph to rome , from whence , he saith , he returned to scotland , and remained to his death a friend to the romans ; after caractacus , corbred his brother was chosen king ; who joined with voada against the romans ; and partaking of her misfortune returned into scotland , and there died . his sons being under age , dardannus succeeded ; who designing to destroy the right heirs of the crown , was himself taken off : and thereby way was made for galdus the true heir to succeed ; who was the same , saith hector , with tacitus his galgacus ; and , he confesses , was beaten by petilius cerealis . this king , buchanan thinks , was the first of their kings who fought with the romans . what becomes then of the credit of hector and veremundus , from whom we have such ample narrations of their engaging with the romans so long before ? from hence it is plain that veremundus his authority signified nothing with him ; and yet he follows hector where he professes to rely upon his authority . for buchanan evidently abridges hector as to the scotish affairs , leaving out what he found inconsistent with the roman history . hector begins his fifth book with the short reign and dolefull end of luctacus , galdus his son ; who was succeeded by mogallus , his sisters son ; who continued for some time a brave prince , but at last degenerating , was killed by his subjects . after him conarus his son , who was confined for ill management , and the government committed to argadus ; upon his death the kingdom fell to ethodius , nephew to mogallus , who was strangled in his bed by an irish harper : and so was satrael that succeeded him , by those of his bed-chamber . these are sad stories , if they were true , but the comfort is , there appears yet no better authority than that of hector for them . for fordon hath nothing of all this ; and buchanan and lesly take them upon hector's credit . they served buchanan's purpose well enough , as appears by his book de jure regni apud scotos ; and therefore he was willing to let them stand in history , being none of his invention , and knowing what use was to be made of them . donaldus , brother to ethodius , was chosen in his room , and here hector falls in with fordon about fulgentius , one of the royal british race , who revolted from the romans , which fordon had from geffrey of monmouth , who calls him fulgenius , and saith , he was driven with the britains into albany : but after , in a fight with severus at york , they were both killed . but in this hector was ashamed to follow them ; allowing severus to die a natural death , and fulgentius to survive him . as to donald's embracing christianity , he follows fordon , but never quotes him ; and here he never mentions veremundus ; as though so considerable a point of history needed no authority but his own . he concludes this book with a brief account of ethodius , son to the former , who for his ill government was confined by his nobles and killed by his guards . in the sixth book he begins with a convention of the estates for the choice of a new king. and they set up his son athirco , who gave great hopes at first , but falling into debauchery , his nobles combined against him , and finding no way to escape , he killed himself . nathalacus , head of the conspiracy , succeeds , who was for a time popular , afterwards cruel , to that degree , as raised a general hatred of him , which ended in a design to destroy him ; wherein they were prevented by one of his greatest confidents , who stabbed him . then findocus , eldest son to athirco , recover'd the crown , who proved an excellent prince , but was at last murthered by two villains , his brother carantius being privy to it : the murtherers were executed , but carantius fled , and was afterwards a great souldier under probus , carus and dioclesian . this carantius is the same whom the roman writers call carausius , as hector afterwards confesses , who set up for himself in britain ; but , saith he , he purposely disguised himself abroad . geffrey of monmouth makes him a britain , and calls him carassius . (p) fordon tells the main of the story of carausius well enough ; onely inlarging on the leagues he made with the scots and picts ; and gothorius , nephew to fulgentius , who ruled over the northern britains . but whence had hector this information , that he was carantius , son to athirco , and brother to findocus ? buchanan is not ashamed to relate the story of carantius as far as to his passing into the roman army , and there stops . but afterwards he speaks of carausius his actions in britain , without any farther mention of carantius ; which shews that buchanan took , and left what he pleased out of hector's history without being obliged by any authority he produced to carry it on as he found it there . after the death of findocus , his brother donald succeeded , who was soon killed by donald of the isles , who usurped the kingdom , and was at last killed by a conspiracy whereof crathlintus , son to findocus was the chief ; who immediately took possession of the crown : after him succeeded fincormachus ; both these died peaceably . then arose a mighty contest about the regency between the three nephews of crathlintus ; at first romachus prevailed , but governing cruelly , he was taken off : then follow'd angusianus , who was killed in battel by the picts ; after him fethelmachus , killed in his bed by his harper ; and last of all eugenius , killed in battel by the romans : and soon after , by the instigation of the picts their mortal enemies , the scots were universally banished out of britain by order of maximus the roman general ; whither they returned not till about forty years after , under fergus ii. and in this , as to the main part of this last tragedy , fordon agrees with hector , viz. that it was occasion'd by the romans joining with the picts against the scots , in the time of eugenius , who were not onely beaten by them , but driven out of britain into ireland , and norway , and other countries . this is the substance of what these scotish antiquaries deliver concerning their remotest antiquities to the time of fergus ii. but several arguments are of late produced to justifie the history of scotland , as it is delivered by hector boethius out of veremundus and his other authours ; which must be briefly considered , before i proceed to the irish antiquities . and it is alledged , that the scotish antiquities , as delivered by him ( for it is concerning hector's authority which i dispute ) have been received with great applause for many hundreds of years , by all historians , antiquaries and criticks of other nations , who had any occasion to mention their affairs . it will go a great way with me , if it be made appear , that there was any such account received among learned antiquaries in any part of the world before hector's time . but i cannot find any one antiquary , no not in scotland , before his time , who gives the same account that hector doth . the tradition of the scots peopling that part of the island long before fergus ii. i grant was a much elder tradition , and is embraced by fordon , and probably by others before him . but fordon doth not own the succession of the same number of kings , and in such a manner as hector delivers them . from whence then came hector to know so much more than fordon in these matters ? i yield that there were some ancient chronica before fordon , which he often quotes . but still the argument is the stronger against hector . for if fordon had all those helps , and yet knew nothing of those particulars , it is a vehement presumption against hector , that he took too much liberty in those many particulars , which fordon passed over , as having nothing to say about them . the more copies they have of fordon in their monasteries , the more easily they may be convinced , how little hector and he agree about the first succession between the two fergusses . and if fordon did agree with all their annals , as is now pleaded , hector boethius could not , because they differ so much from each other ; as will appear to any one that compares them . why do we not reade in fordon the authorities of veremundus and cornelius hibernicus , who were certainly before his time , if ever ? for we are told , that he was archdeacon of st. andrew ' s. a. d. . and dedicated his book to malcolm canmore ; which was long enough before fordon's time . but it is said , that he is cited in a particular part of fordon 's book ; which could not be copied from boethius . it had been a much clearer evidence , if that place had been produced ; for then we might have consider'd whether it was a passage of fordon , or of one of those several writers who it seems wrote additions and continuations to him ; such , as besides maculloch , arelat and walter bowmaker are said to have been , who continued the histories to the reign of james ii. and yet i would be glad to see any testimony of veremundus of that antiquity . as to the testimony of chambers , who saith , he had these principal authours , veremund , a spaniard , turgott , swinton , campbell , &c. till some farther proof be produced , i have reason to suppose , it was the same case as to him with that of sir r. baker , which immediately follows ; for we are told , that he likewise quotes this veremund among the authours out of whom he compiled his history , and likewise campbell and turgott . and if we have no more ground to believe that chambers had them , than sir r. baker , the matter must remain in as much obscurity as before . for no one imagines that sir r. baker had all those authours by him which he there mentions ; but he sets down the names of those whose authorities he relied upon , although he found them quoted by others . and he is not the onely person in the world who hath cited the authority of books which he never saw ▪ the same is to be said of hollinshed . but if such kind of proofs must pass for evident demonstrations , that the scots had such historians as veremundus and the others before mentioned ; i wonder the same learned authour should shrink so much the faith of history as to allow that despicable thing , called moral certainty , to be a sufficient probation for it ; for scarce any history can be mention'd , but may have such kind of evident demonstrations to prove it . well , but balaeus , a learned english-man , and gesner , and other famous strangers , quote veremundus . but so do not boston of bury , nor leland , who had written of the british and other writers before the time of hector boethius . and those were men who searched all our libraries for the ancient books in them , and have digested them with great care ; and if veremundus with other mss. were brought into england by edw. i. as is now suggested , it could hardly have escaped the diligence of those men. but those who lived after hector boethius published his history , took his word for veremundus , and entred him into their catalogues ; as vossius hath done many whom he never saw . but erasmus saith that hector was a person who could not lie . that was more than erasmus could know , unless he had been by when he wrote his history and compared it with the authours he pretended to follow . as to paulus iovius , he was a fit second to boethius ; but i am sure erasmus would not have said of him , that he could not lie . for hector's pretending to have his books from the island iona , i have given an account of it already , and shew'd how inconsistent his own relation thereof is . but all this while , where is the great applause of these scotish antiquities for many hundreds of years by all historians , antiquaries and criticks of foreign nations ? when not so much as one is produced , who lived before hector boethius , and , i think , that was not many hundred years since . but whatever becomes of veremundus , we are told , that the black-book of scoon , containing the scotish histories from the beginning , was among president spotswood 's books , and given to lambert , and by him to collonel fairfax . all this , i am afraid , is a great mistake for a black-book of fordon's , which was brought out of scotland and presented to the late king by a gentleman of that name , as some yet living can attest . but no such thing as the black-book of scoon was ever heard of here ; and if any such could be found , we should be so far from suppressing any thing that tended to the glory of the scotish nation , that some here would be very glad to publish it , with all other ancient annals which themselves would think fit to be printed ; whether it be the black-book of paslay , pluscardin , or any others . we do not deny that they had any ancient annals or registers in their monasteries ; but we desire to be better acquainted with them ; and it is no good argument , they can tell us where to find them , that they are so carefull to let us know how they came to lose them . but , after all this fencing , it is positively said , that the surest foundation of all history is the common belief and consent of the natives . but what if the natives of several countries differ from each other ? it may be reasonable to believe neither , but it is not possible to believe both . what if they had for a long time no certain way of conveying their histories from one age to another ? it is possible oral tradition may preserve some general strokes of the ancient history of a countrey ; but it is hardly credible , that so many particulars as boethius hath in the first race of kings could be kept so distinctly by the force of tradition . the case of the old world is vastly different from any other people since the shortning of mens lives ; and whatever nation wanted records , could never make out the credibility of their history to other people . we do not deny the annals of the jewish or roman priests ; but we think annals and oral tradition are two things ; when annals are produced , we must weigh and consider them , and compare the annals of several nations together , that we may better judge which are to be relied upon . and yet we are told again , that when histories are already formed out of ancient records , there is no farther need to produce them ; for papers may be lost by accident , but the histories taken out of them are to be believed , although the records cannot be found ; as it is in respect of the histories of rome and greece , whose authority remains , although the testimonies on which they relied are not extant . so that at last geffrey of monmouth must be believed as to the british antiquities , as well as hector boethius as to the scotish . for geffrey doth no more pretend to invent his history than hector : and hunibaldus is as good an authour as either of them ; and keting as good as hunibaldus . for they all equally pretend to derive their histories from ancient records and the tradition of the natives ; and all these having formed their histories out of these substantial grounds , we are to search no farther ; but to believe them all however improbable in themselves and contradictions to one another . the case is very different as to the learned greek and roman histories , from those of the modern barbarous nations ; which were plainly made in imitation of them , as will appear afterwards . and as to the greeks and romans , there is a considerable difference to be made between the histories that related to the times before they had written annals and after . can any man imagine that there is as great reason to believe the first accounts of greece as those that were written after the peloponnesian war ? or , that the first beginnings of the roman monarchy by romulus are delivered with as much certainty as the carthaginian war ? the most judicious writers among the greeks and romans did make allowance for the obscurity of ancient times , when many things were utterly lost , and others very imperfectly delivered : what reproach then is it to any modern nations to suppose their histories to have had the same fate the greeks and romans had ? onely in this respect they are liable to greater dispute , because they pretend to give an exact account of those times before they had any annals or written records ; and in this case , the more exact and particular , the more suspicious . and we have more certain rules of trying their ancient histories , than the greeks and romans had ; because we have the accounts of several nations to compare together ; and undoubted testimonies of other writers to examine them by . and if they be not found faulty by some of these ways , we are contented to let them pass . but as to the scotish antiquities , we not onely object the want of sufficient antiquity in their written records , but their inconsistency with approved writers , in the most ancient account they give of the first settling of the scots so early in britain . and which yet adds more to the suspicion , the irish , from whom they descend , give a far more different account of their first coming than themselves do ; as will appear by what follows . for , the irish antiquaries will by no means allow the account given by hector boethius ; and say , he had not regard to truth in the writing of it ; particularly , as to simon brek's coming out of spain , and bringing the fatal chair with him , which they say are both false , and the main ground they insist upon is , that they are contrary to the relation of the (q) old irish antiquaries who deserve far more credit . i shall therefore set down the account they give , and consider the credit they deserve . the best account we have from (r) them is this ; ( . ) that ireland was first planted after the floud , by one ciocal , with a fleet , wherein every vessel had fifty men and fifty women ; and this , keting saith , happen'd about years after the deluge . but since such remote antiquities are very tender things , i shall not with a besom sweep them all away at once , but gently take them in pieces , and lay them open as i pass along . now i desire to know what foundation there is for our believing a thing so unlikely , as the peopling of ireland in this manner , with such a fleet , so soon after the floud ? it was a long time after this before the phoenicians had any skill in shipping ; to whom the romans attributed the invention of it . and certainly the expedition of the argonautae had not made such a noise among the greeks so long after the floud ( but twenty years before the destruction of troy , as (s) scaliger saith , which happen'd in the time of the judges ) if the skill in shipping had been so great within years after it ? yet , if that expedition were such as (t) olaus rudbeck describes it , it was far more considerable than is commonly thought . for he saith , they not onely entred the euxine sea , but he proves from orpheus and diodorus siculus , that they sailed up the tanais , from whence hornius in his map saith , they went into the mare cronium , and so came round egypt , passing between britain and ireland , and returning home by the straits . but rudbeck finds a passage for them from the tanais to the volga , and so to the lake of fronoe , the head of the volga , and then by rivers into the baltick sea , and so about the scythian promontory to ierne ( ireland ) and peucessa ( britain ) and to ausonia ( italy ) and trinacria ( sicily ) and so home to iolcos . if this were a mere poetical fancy , yet it was extraordinary , since it agrees with the exact description of the northern countries , saith rudbeck far more than ptolemy doth . i will suppose this orpheus , who wrote the argonauticks , to be neither the old orpheus , nor onomacritus , but orpheus of crotona , to whom suidas attributes the argonauticks , who lived in the time of pisistratus ; yet it is very much for him then to describe these parts of the world , as he doth ; and to mention ireland as a countrey then known to the greeks . and festus avienus , describing the voyage of himilco the carthaginian ( spoken of by (u) pliny ) speaks of ireland as then esteemed sacred in these remarkable verses : ast hinc , duobus , in sacram , sic insulam dixere prisci solibus cursus rati est haec inter vndas multum cespitem jacit eámque latè gens hibernorum colit propinqua rursus insula albionum patet . nothing can be plainer , than that he here speaks of ireland and britain , as then known by himilco ; for festus avienus saith , he took this description from the phoenician annals , in which this voyage was inserted . and it is very strange to me that (w) olaus rudbeck should here change the hiberni into hyperborei , especially when he allows albion to stand for britain . but these are undoubted testimonies of the ancient peopling of ireland : and of far greater authority than those domestick annals now so much extolled . but must we follow keting , because he follows the old annals in this tradition of the first peopling of ireland ? and why not then in the story of seth and three daughters of cain viewing ireland ? and of the three fishermen of spain being wind driven thither the year before the floud ? and of keasar the daughter of bajoth , son of noah , coming thither with three men and fifty women , to save themselves from the floud ? are not all these fine stories in the same irish annals ? but keting rejects them ; and what then ? doth this make for or against the authority of these annals , that even keting looks on these as poetical fictions ? but he saith , the best irish antiquaries did of old look on these as fabulous . possibly the two former they might ; but do they indeed reject the story of keasar and her companions ? (x) giraldus cambrensis quotes the most ancient histories of ireland for this tradition ; and they confirm it by the names of the place where she landed , and where she was buried . and (y) gratianus lucius confesses , that he had the sight of their ancient annals ; and he suspects that he made away many of them . if so , keting had fewer advantages than giraldus for the old irish antiquities . but if these old annals be of so little authority in this story , what credit do they deserve in this early plantation after the floud ? but to proceed in the irish account , it is said , ( . ) that bartholanus and his three sons , about three hundred years after the floud , landing in ireland with a thousand fighting men , had many doughty battels with the posterity of ciocal ; and at the end of three hundred years they were all consumed by a pestilence . this story , i confess , is in (z) nennius , and (a) giraldus cambrensis ; but it is a very obvious question , if they all died , how their memory came to be preserved , and even the memory of that pestilence which destroy'd them all ? but to this giraldus gives a very substantial answer out of the ancient annals , viz. that onely one ruanus escaped , who lived to st. patrick 's days , and was baptized by him : ( in a good old age certainly , for he must be born within six hundred years after the floud ; and it was above four hundred and thirty years after christ before st. patrick was designed for ireland . ) this ruanus , say the irish in giraldus , was the true relatour of the ancient history of ireland to st. patrick , and who can question the testimony of such an authentick and truly ancient witness ? a late (b) irish antiquary saith , he continued so long by a pythagorean transmigration ; but it was much he could retain these things in his memory under all his transmutations . but as to this bartholanus ( who is called by nennius bartholomeus , but by geffrey , partholomeus , by fordon , partholomus ) we reade in the (c) british history , that when gurguintus returned from dacia , he found ships near the orcades full of men and women , and , sending to enquire who they were , their commander , (c) bartholomeus , said , they were driven out of spain to seek a countrey to live in , and beg'd some part of britain , for they had been a year and a half at sea ; but he sent them into ireland , then void of inhabitants , which they planted , and there continued to this day . it seems there was a tradition in nennius his time , anno domini . that ireland was peopled from spain ; and that one bartholonus , or bartholomeus , was the leader of them ; but geffrey would not let them go thither without leave from the britains ; but nennius hath nothing of it , and that part concerning being a year and a half at sea , nennius applies to nimech , as he calls him , but the irish , nimead ; and he saith , after his abode in ireland , he returned to spain . then , nennius saith , three sons of a spaniard came with thirty vessels , and thirty women in each of them , who saw a towre of glass in the middle of the sea , and men upon it , who would give no answer , wherefore they resolved to assault it with all their vessels , except one , which was shipwreck'd , having thirty men , and as many women , in it , all the rest were sunk in the attempt of the castle , and from those thirty men and thirty women , saith nennius , all ireland was peopled . here we see how far geffrey differs from nennius ; and alters the old traditions as he thought fit . but nennius goes on , and saith , that more still came from spain , and the last was one whom he calls clamhochor , and his company . but the interpolatour of nennius ( whether samuel beulanus or another ) there observes , that there is no certain account of the original of the scots ; so the irish were then called . but yet nennius relates , from the irish antiquaries , the story of the noble scythian , who was son-in-law to pharaoh , and his expulsion out of egypt , and coming at last to spain , and thence to ireland above a thousand years after the egyptians were drowned in the red sea ; and first settled in dalrieta , which he understands of that region in ireland ; but the scotish antiquaries apply it to the countrey which had the same name in scotland . so that here we have very different accounts , that were given so long since as the time of nennius ; and no way found then , to distinguish the true from the false , or the certain from the uncertain . but of that more afterwards . now to go on to a farther account from the irish authours who say , ( . ) that thirty years after , nemedus , another scythian , with his four sons , arrived in ireland with a good fleet , and fought with the remainder of the giants , but by another pestilence were driven off , under the conduct of three captains , simeon breac , ibaath , and briotan , and the two former sailing to greece ; briotan , with his adherents , landed in the north of britain , now called scotland ; and by these , and their posterity remaining there , gave the denomination of britain to the whole island . and this we are told is affirmed by the holy cormach , king of munster and bishop of cashel , in the psalter of cashel . and all the chronologers of ireland agree with him . this psalter of cashel is one of the most authentick histories among them , and so called because done in verse ; and (d) it is said , that the more remote antiquities in it were taken from another book made years since , collected out of all the former chronicles of that nation and allowed in a solemn convention of the estates at tarach , under laogerius , in the time of st. patrick , who was one of the committee appointed for the supervising of it . and this book was called the psalter of tarach . this i confess goes much beyond what can be said for geffrey of monmouth , or hector boethius . but yet methinks there seem to be some reasons , why these annals should not have such a mighty authority with us . for we cannot be certain that there ever were such annals , or that these annals , if they were so exactly drawn up , are still preserved . for not onely (e) gratianus lucius complains for the loss of their old annals ; but (f) jocelin , in the life of st. patrick , concludes with saying , that many of their writings relating to him were burnt by the fury of the pagans while they governed in ireland . by these pagans the danes are meant , and the slavery under them is (g) said to be worse than egyptian , circassian , or any other mention'd in history . and particularly it is said , that the clergy were banish'd into bogs , woods and caves , where they were fain to lurk several years like wild beasts ; and that none were suffered to keep school , or to be taught any kind of learning , not even in their own houses : and which is yet more to the purpose , none were suffer'd to have any kind of book ; but all books the danes could light upon , were either burnt , or taken away from them . it is possible their annals might escape such a storm as this , but it doth not seem altogether probable ; especially considering that this first slavery under the danes continued forty years , in which , they say , all their famous monasteries , cells , vniversities , colleges were destroyed , not one being left in the land. and it is withall said , that although other losses might be recover'd , yet their libraries were never recover'd . onely some few religious men preserved some of their books . but we have no assurance that the old annals were among them . or if they were then , that they could escape the second danish invasion , which continued for a hundred and fifty years . in which (h) colganus saith , the irish antiquities had an irrecoverable loss , at least , he saith , not yet recover'd . and yet he had cormach's psalter , or the psalter of cashel , tigernacus his annals , or the annales cluanenses , the annales insulenses , composed by one magraidin , in the island of all-saints , in the county of longford , which he deduces to anno domini . the annals of vlster , by one maguir , canon of armach , deduced to his own time , who died an. dom. . and the annals of dungall composed by four modern authours out of all their former annals ; but among all these , there is nothing pretending to antiquity , but the psalter of cashel and tigernacus ; yet the psalter of cashel falls short of the time of nennius , for cormach , king of munster , the supposed authour of it , lived after the beginning of the tenth century , being killed by flanmhac siona ( called flannus siuna by (i) gratianus lucius ) who died an. dom. . or as sir james (k) ware thinks , an. dom. . and for tigernacus his annals , the four magistri , as colgunus calls them , or the annals of dungall are positive , that tigernacus ô braion , the authour of them , died (l) in the eleventh century , an. dom. . there remains onely the psaltuir na-ran , written by aonghais ceile de , or by aengusius , one of the culdees , who lived in the latter end of the eighth century , as the same irish antiquary confesses , who withall saith , that all the works contained therein relate onely to matters of piety and devotion , which therefore can signifie nothing to our purpose . so that nothing appears of the irish antiquities which can pretend to be written before the danish invasion ; and although we are told , that these annals were taken out of others more ancient ; yet we have barely their word for it ; for those ancient annals , whatever they were , are irrecoverably lost ; so that there can be no comparison of one with the other . and how can they be so certain of the exactness used in the parliament of tarach to preserve their annals , if there be no ancient annals to preserve the memory of the proceedings at that time ? it was a very extraordinary care for the estates of the whole nation to preserve their annals ; if we could be assured of it : which doth much exceed the library of antiquities which (m) suffridus petrus speaks of , set up , as he saith , by friso , the founder of the frisians , at stavera , near the temple of stavo , in which not onely the ancient records were preserved from time to time ; but the pictures of the several princes , with the times of their reigns , from an. . before christ 's coming , to charlemagns time ; the like whereof , he saith , no german nation can boast of ; but yet methinks the posterity of gathelus exceeds that of friso's in the care of preserving their antiquities ; for the wisedom of the whole nation was concerned in it . but i never read of any who ever saw this library of antiquities at stavera , but we must believe cappidus staverensis and occa scarlensis , as to these things ; and that they saw the records , as hector did veremundus , although none else ever did . but as to this parliament of tarach , which was carefull to preserve the irish antiquities ; whence have we this information ? are the acts of that assembly preserved ? are any copies of those annals still in being ? yes , we (n) are told , that the keeping of the original book was entrusted by the estates to the prelates , and those prelates , for its perpetual preservation , caused several authentick copies of it to be fairly engrossed , whereof some are extant to this day , and several more faithfully transcribed out of them ; their names being the book of ardmach , the psalter of cashel , &c. it seems then , these are the transcripts of the original authentick book , allowed by all the estates of the kingdom . but the book of ardmach is a late thing , being the same with the annals of vlster composed by a canon of armach : so that the whole rests upon the psalter of cashel , which must be composed years after the meeting of that famous assembly . for st. patrick was one of the number , and it was done in the time of laogirius , or leogarius , king of ireland , who died , saith (o) gratianus lucius , an. dom. . but king cormach lived in the tenth century ; and therefore an account must be given , how this original book or authentick copies were preserved for that years and more , in the miserable condition that nation was in , a great part of that time . so that the difference is not so great between the authority of geffrey of monmouth and these annals , as is pretended . for i see no reason why the story of brutus should be thought more incredible than that of ciocal , bartholanus and nemedus , with his son briotan that gave the name to britain ; and especially the story of gathelus himself , his marriage in egypt to scota , coming to spain , and thence his posterity to ireland ; which seems to me to be made in imitation of geffrey's brutus . for brutus married pandrasus his daughter , the king of greece , and then was forced to seek his fortune at sea , and passing by mauritania , just as gathelus did , the one landed in gaul , and came for albion ; and the other in spain , and sent his son for ireland . and i wonder to find (p) brutus his giants in albion of so much larger proportions than the giants in ireland , who are said not to exceed the tallest growth of men ; for i had thought giants had been giants in all parts of the world. suppose some learned men have question'd , whether there were such a person as brute ; i should think it no more heresie , than to call in question , whether there were such persons as ciocal , bartholanus , briotan or gathelus ; if the silence of good authours , the distance of time , and want of ancient annals complained of , makes the history of brutus so hard to be believed , i onely desire that these irish traditions may be examined by the same rules , and then , i believe , the irish antiquities will be reduced to the same form with the british ; onely geffrey had not so lucky an invention , as to have his history confirm'd by parliament . for , if he had but thought of it , he could have made as general an assembly of the estates at lud's town , and as select a committee of nine , as ever was at tarach . but all mens inventions do not lie the same way ; and in this , i confess , keting or his authours have very much exceeded geffrey and his british ms. and upon the whole matter i cannot see that the irish chronologers and historians have so much more probability in their story of briotan than the british writers had in the tradition of brute . for it is certain , it was not originally the invention of geffrey , onely he might use some art in setting it off , as he thought , with greater advantage than the britains had done before him . but still we are referr'd to the authority of the irish monuments in the psalter of cashel written years since by the holy cormach , both king and bishop of munster . let us then , for once , examine one part of the history taken from thence , and then leave the reader to judge , whether it deserves so much more credit than the british antiquities ; and that shall be concerning the kingdom of the picts , because we are told , (q) this is the way to end the vexatious questions about them , being taken out of the most authentick records of ireland , which are of such irrefragable authority , that some are persuaded , had they been known to camden , he would never have disputed the matter . and so i think too . but this irrefragable authority is that of the psalter of cashel ; from whence we are instructed in these particulars : ( . ) that the picts served in thracia , under one policornus , a king of that countrey ; where their general gud took away the king's life , to prevent an attempt on his daughter . and did not brutus serve king pandrasus with his army not far off in greece ? and methinks pandrasus is as good a name for a king of greece as polycornus for the king of thrace . but where are either of them to be met with elsewhere ? ( . ) that upon this the general and his army fled the countrey , roamed up and down at sea till they came to gaul , and there they founded the city of pictavia . this is just geffrey . for brutus came to gaul too , and there fought with groffarius , king of the picts , and founded the city of tours , which had its name from turonus , brutus his nephew . ( . ) that upon the same occasion they were forced to leave gaul , and to go for ireland , ( as brutus did for albion ) where they were entertained , to fight with the britains ; who it seems made very early invasions upon ireland , which still agrees with geffrey's history . ( . ) the story of the advice of trosdan , the pictish magician , for the irish army to bath in the milk of white , crumple-horned cows , as an effectual antidote against the envenom'd arrows of the britains , and the strange success upon it , is hardly to be matched in geffrey . ( . ) that the picts , growing insolent , were forced by herimon to retire to the northern parts of britain , onely with three irish women , whatever bede saith of more ; or , how differently soever he relates the whole story of the picts ; for what is bede's , a poor monk's authority , to king cormach's ? ( . ) that from cathluan , son to gud , there was a constant succession of kings of the picts in that countrey . but not more exact than the succession of british kings from king brutus . and now i leave the reader to judge whether geffrey be not hardly dealt with , when such authours are preferr'd so much before him . we now return to the farther account which the irish antiquaries give of their own antiquities . ( . ) we are then to understand , that , besides the race descended from nemedus , there was another called clanna gaoidhel , or , posterity of gathelus ; concerning whom these things are affirmed . ( . ) that he was descended from niul , a younger son to feanusa farsa , king of scythia , who , travelling into egypt , had a countrey there given him by pharaoh cingeris called capacyront ( i suppose in the old egyptian language ) who was married to pharaoh 's daughter called scota . whereas the scotish antiquaries do peremptorily affirm , it was gathelus himself was married to her . but we ought not to forget , that this scythian king had a celebrated school on the plain of sennaar , and one gaodel , being there employ'd to compose or refine the irish language , called from him gaodhelc or gaodhlec . this is a strain beyond geffrey , who never thought of bringing the british language from the plain of sennaar . ( . ) that gaodhel 's posterity continued in egypt till the time of his grandchild sruth , and then being forced thence , they landed in creet , where he died . and his eldest son eibhir scot went into scythia ; where one of his descendents killed restoir , the king of that countrey , and was forced with his company to the caspian sea , and landed in an island there ( just like geffrey's large●ia , where brutus landed . ) but they went from thence to caronia , another island in the pontick , and from thence to the north end of the riphean mountains ; ( a pretty kind of compass ! ) and here , instead of diana's oracle to brutus , an old druyd told them , they should never fix till they came to the western island , and so they removed to gothia , and in the eighth generation , they went to spain . and doth not this exceed the story of brute , in the great probability of it , which their latest (r) antiquary knows not what to make of ? it is certain whoever invented it , designed to go beyond the authour of the former . but this is not all ; for we are told farther from the same authentick irish annals . ( . ) that calamb ( called milead espain , or milesius the spaniard ) great grandchild to bratha , who brought them into spain , went back into scythia ; and there served as general under refloir , king of the scythians ; from whence , upon suspicions , he fled into egypt , and there married pharaoh 's daughter called scota ; and at last returned to spain , and there founded braganza : and here the scotish antiquities fall in . but is it not a little improbable to have the same scene acted twice over ? two gaodel's , two refloir's , two scota's , twice passing to and fro after much the same manner ? we may well say , as our authour doth , enough of these profound remote antiquities . for i shall not need now to add any thing about the eight sons of this milesius coming to ireland ; and how the rest being killed , the countrey was divided between eibhir and erimthon ; and the former being killed , the latter became the first monarch of ireland , from whom descended monarchs of this milesian race : which must depend on the credit of their annals , of which i have already spoken . but , in short , to give the true account of these fabulous antiquities . we are then to consider , that when the northern nations began to have some smattering of the greek and roman learning , they were never satisfied ; till by one means or other , they could deduce their original from some of the nations most celebrated in ancient books ; such were the trojans , the greeks and the egyptians . as to the trojans , the romans themselves had shewed the way to other nations . for there are considerable arguments to prove that neither aeneas , nor ascanius , ever came into italy ; as may be seen in (s) dionysius halycarnasseus , (t) strabo and festus , in the word roma . hellanicus , in dionysius , saith , that ascanius ( from whom brutus is derived ) never left phrygia ; but onely withdrew for a time to dascylites , near the lake ( from him called the ascanian ) and afterwards returned to troy. strabo saith , that ascanius reigned at scepsis , near the ruins of troy , and that his posterity continued there a long time after , with a royal title . festus shews , that the old authours were not agreed where aeneas was buried ; many were of opinion , that he lay buried in the city berecinthia . and some in dionysius say , he died in thrace , others in arcadia . but the romans making it so great a part of their glory to be descended from the trojans ; other nations of europe , upon the dissolution of the roman empire , would not seem to come behind them in this . so (u) hunibaldus gives as formal an account of the descent of the franks from antenor , and as good a succession of their kings down from him ; with the particular names of persons , and the time of their reigns , as either geffrey doth of the british kings from brutus ; or hector of the scots from fergus ; or the irish annals from gathelus or heremon . and that this is no late invention appears from hence ; that aimoinus , ado viennensis , abbas vrspergensis , rorico , gaguinus , aeneas silvius , and others , agree with hunibaldus in the substance of his story . and (w) vignier mentions several diplomata of the ancient kings of the franks , to prove the authentickness of this tradition . and it is less to be wonder'd at , that the britains should pretend to be derived from the trojans because of the mixture of the romans and them together , while britain continued so long a roman province . from whence i suppose the first occasion was taken , which continued as a tradition among the britains for a long time before it was brought into such a history as we find in geffrey . that the tradition it self was elder than his time is certain ; for even those who despised geffrey embraced it , as appears by (x) giraldus cambrensis ; and in the saxon times this tradition was known , as is evident by the saxon poet , mention'd by (y) abr. whelock ; but nennius his ms. puts it out of dispute , that there was then a tradition about the britains coming from brute ; but he could not tell what to make of this brute ; sometimes he was brito the son of ysicion , the son of alan , of the posterity of japhet : and for this he quotes the (z) tradition of his ancestours ; but this being uncapable of much improvement or evidence , he then runs to brutus the roman ; and sometimes it is brutus the consul ; but that , not suiting so well , he then produces the story of aeneas , and ascanius , and silvius , and the prediction of the magician , that his son should kill his father and mother ; she died in labour , and his father was killed by him by chance ; however he was banished from italy into greece ; and from thence again banished , and so came into gaul , and there built tours , having its name from one of his companions ; and from thence he came for britain , which took its name from him , and he filled it with his progeny , which continue to this day . so that here we have the foundation of geffrey's history laid long before his time ; and nennius his account is mention'd by (a) william of malmsbury , under the name of gesta britonum ; and follow'd by henry of huntingdon , and turgott , or simeon dunelmensis ; but when geffrey's book came abroad , it was so improved and adorned with particulars , not elsewhere to be found , that the generality of the monkish historians , not onely follow'd , but admir'd it , and pitied those that had not seen it , ( as they supposed ) as (b) ranulphus cestrensis doth william of malmsbury ; but there were some cross-grained writers who called it an imposture , as gul. newburgensis ; or a poetical figment , as john whethamsted . but these were but few in comparison with those who were better pleased , with the particulars of a legend than the dryness of a true history . but this humour was not peculiar to the franks and britains ; for the saxons derived (c) themselves from the macedonian army of alexander , which had three captains saith . (d) suffridus petrus , saxo , friso and bruno ; from whom are descended the saxons , frisians and those of brunswick . and (e) abbas stadensis adds , that not onely the saxons , but those of prussia , rugia and holstein came from them . (f) gobelinus persona relates the particulars as exactly as geffrey , or hector , or the irish annals do ; how they were left on the caspian mountains , and wandred up and down just as brutus and gathelus did , till they settled in prussia , rugen and saxony . the danes , saith (g) dudo s. quintin derived themselves from the danai ; the (h) prussians from prusias , king of bithynia , who brought the greeks along with him . onely the scots and irish had the wit to derive themselves from the greeks and egyptians together . we are now to sit down and consider , what is to be said to all these glorious pretences ? must they be all allowed for good and true history ? if not , what marks of distinction can we set between them ? they all pretend to such founders as came afar off , wandred from place to place , consulted oracles , built cities , founded kingdoms , and drew their succession from many ages ; so that it seems unreasonable to allow none but our own . and yet these antiquities will hardly pass any where , but with their own nation ; and hardly with those of any judgment in any of them . but when all this is said , every one will believe as he pleases ; but it is one thing to believe with the will , and another with the vnderstanding . to return now to the irish antiquities . and it onely remains that we enquire , how the irish antiquaries give an account of their nations coming into the northern parts of britain : and here is something which deserves consideration , viz. that they (i) charge the scotish antiquaries with placing the time of fergus i. years before he landed in britain . for , say they , the irish monuments fix on anno dom. . as the time wherein fergus mor the son of erch ( whom the scotish writers call the son of ferchard ) with his five brothers invaded the north of britain . to this purpose they produce the testimony of tigernacus , who in his annals saith , fergus mor mhac ercha cum gente dalraida partem britanniae tenuit , & ibi mortuus est . this he writes about the beginning of pope symmachus , which was about six years after the death of st. patrick , and very near the end of the fifth century . besides another irish authour who writes of the kings of albany who were contemporary with the monarchs of ireland , reckons twenty years between the battel of ocha , and the going of the six sons of erc into albany : and the annals of vlster place the battel of ocha a. d. . so that fergus his coming into scotland could not be before the beginning of the sixth century . (k) gratianus lucius saith , that the battel of ocha , wherein oilliol molt , the irish monarch , who succeeded leogarius , was killed , was anno dom. . which makes but five years difference . farther , say they , the scotish antiquaries make reuda the sixth king after fergus , whereas it appears by their annals , (l) that their monarch conair had three sons , called the three cairbres , and the third (m) was cairbre riada ; from whom that part of britain was called dal riada , or dal reuda ; but conair was killed an. dom. . and therefore this (n) reuda must be years before fergus . the old ms. cited by (o) camden , makes fergus to be descended from conair , with which as (p) archbishop vsher observes the old irish genealogies agree : but he saith , conair reign'd anno dom. . however , long enough before the time of fergus . according to this supposition , that part of scotland called dalrieta , or dalreuda , ( the bounds whereof are described by the learned primate ) was inhabited long before the coming of fergus ; and so agrees with what (q) bede saith , that the scots came first out of ireland under the conduct of reuda , and either by force or friendship found habitations for themselves there , which they still enjoy'd , and from their leader to this time they were called dalreudim ; daal signifying a share in their language . this reuda seems to be the same with cairbre riada , the third son of conair ; and if fergus were descended from the same conair , it gives a probable account of fergus his coming afterwards into those parts ; and taking the government upon him . for (r) keting saith , that eochac mumreamhar of the progeny of cairbre redhfadac or riada had two sons earcha and elchon ; and from the former the families of dal riada in scotland are descended , from the latter those of dal riada in ulster . which must be understood of that part of the vlster dal riadans , which fergus carried with him : for there were the descendents from riada in scotland before , according to the former account . but the whole matter about the reign of fergus remains still very obscure . for ( . ) it seems strange that bede takes no notice at all of him , which in all probability he would have done , as well as of reuda , who was less considerable . ( . ) (s) jocelin in the life of st. patrick saith , that fergus was one of the twelve sons of the king of dalredia , and was excluded from his share by his brethren , of whom st. patrick prophesied , that from him kings should rise , who should not onely reign at home , but in a foreign countrey ; after which , saith he , fergus in no long time came to be king in his own countrey ; and from him sprang eanus , who subdued albany , and other islands , and whose posterity still reigns there ; so that if jocelin's authority be good , fergus himself never came into scotland ; but the mistake arose , because he was king in dalrieda ; which the scots understood of their own , and thought they had reason , because the posterity of fergus reigned there . ( . ) (t) giraldus cambrensis , who had a sight of the irish annals , never mentions fergus , but onely saith , that in the time of nellus the monarch of ireland , six sons of mured king of ulster sailed into the northern parts of britain , and there planted themselves , from whom the scotish nation is derived . this nellus , whom the irish call niall the great , was killed , saith gratianus lucius , anno dom. . and if the sons of the king of vlster came then over to plant and settle in scotland , this must be years before the time of fergus , and consequently he could be none of that number : and yet the (u) irish annalists make the two fergusses , the two aengusses , and the two loarns , to be the six sons of muriedhach , king of ulster , who came over to settle in scotland . but if giraldus his authority be allow'd , the scots came not to settle in britain , till the beginning of the fifth century ; and the monarchy in the posterity of fergus , according to jocelin , could not be till towards the middle of the sixth century . and if edan , king of the scots in bede's history , be the same with that edan in jocelin who descended from fergus , then the scotish kingdom did not begin till the seventh century , as appears by (w) bede . but in matters of so much obscurity i determine nothing . but it is but justice to consider on the other side , what the scotish antiquaries do now plead for themselves , to prove that they inhabited scotland long before this time . first , they say , (x) bede mentions them as ancient inhabitants of this island before the coming of the romans ; and describes the war 's between the picts , scots and britains before that of the romans . it is very true , that bede , in the beginning of his history , doth set down the several nations which inhabited britain , and he names five . english , britains , scots , picts and romans . and among these he reckons the britains first , then the picts , after them the scots from ireland under reuda ; and then adds ▪ that ireland was the true countrey of the scots , who coming hither made a third nation in britain , besides the britains and picts , and landed on the north part of the frith , towards ireland , and there settled themselves . but bede saith nothing at all of the time when the scots came first from ireland , and it is of no force , that he reckons them here before the war with the romans ; for , so he doth the english as well as the scots : his business being to give an account of the present inhabitants , and not merely of the ancient , haec in praesenti gentium linguis , &c. but where doth bede say , that the scots were in britain before the romans coming hither ? i cannot find so much as an intimation that way : unless it be in the title of the chapter , of the situation of britain and ireland , and their ancient inhabitants . and doth not bede speak of the britains as the ancient inhabitants of this island and the scots of ireland ? but if all mention'd must be ancient inhabitants , then so must the english and romans be , as well as the picts and scots . well! but doth not (y) bede afterwards say , that severus his wall was built against the unconquer'd nations beyond it ? i grant it , if he had said , the scots and picts beyond it , the controversie had been ended . but doth not dio explain bede , who expresly tells us , these nations were the maeatae and the caledonii ? why not the picts and the scots if then in britain ? the latter roman writers never forbear calling them by their own names , when they knew them to be here ; as appears by eumenius , claudian and ammianus marcellinus : but to say the scots were called maeatae , because they came from the palus maeotis , will hardly go down in this age. however it is confidently affirmed , the caledonii were the scots . let this one thing be well proved , and i will yield the scots were in britain long before severus his time ; for tacitus mentions the caledonians . but it is to no more purpose to quote modern writers , who call the caledonians scots , than lipsius his calling galgacus a scotish king : for we are not bound to follow any modern writers in their improprieties . there is no question the caledonians were known to flaccus and martial ( who certainly lived not in augustus his time , unless that name be very improperly given by it self to domitian or trajan . ) but do any of these roman authours ever tell us the caledonians were scots ▪ if not , to what end are the caledonians so much spoken of ? as far as we can find by tacitus , or dio , or any others , they were the northern britains . and if tacitus had known that they came out of ireland , and were a distinct nation , he was so diligent and judicious a writer , he would never have omitted the setting it down , when he gives so punctual an account of the original of the several sorts of britains , according to his best judgment and information ; and none could have better ; relating some things concerning ireland , from agricola's own mouth , who was then the roman general against the caledonians . and he saith , agricola had one of the kings of ireland with him . suppose we then the caledonians to have been scots come out of ireland ; is it possible , that an irish king should not be able to inform agricola who these caledonians were ? or , if tacitus had known any such thing , would he have said , the caledonians , by the habit of their bodies seemed to be of german extraction , when he derives the silures from spain ? had it not been as easie for him to have derived the caledonians from spain through ireland , if any such thing had been heard by him , as that the caledonians were of ireland , and came first out of spain thither ? but nothing can be more plain than that tacitus took the caledonians for britains , and so doth galgacus , in his excellent speech , wherein he calls them , the noblest of the britains , and excites them to recover the liberty of the britains ; and tells them , they fought the same cause with the other britains ; and now they were to shew what sort of men caledonia had reserved for their common defence . was tacitus so inconsiderate a writer to put such words into galgacus his mouth , if he knew or suspected the caledonians to be no britains , but a different nation come out of ireland in the time that alexander took babylon ? had tacitus known any thing of this , he would never have concealed it , when he values himself upon his integrity , in relating what he could find about the affairs of britain . and therefore tacitus his judgment in this matter is to be much preferr'd before scaliger's criticism about the scoto-brigantes , or the scoticae pruinae in spartian's poet ; or any such uncertain conjectures . and yet the scoto-brigantes might be irish ; where both scoti and brigantes were , and so it proves nothing , as to britain ; for claudius conquer'd ireland as much as scotland . but it is more plausibly urged , that (z) bede speaking of the scots being a transmarine nation , he explains himself by saying , that he means not that they were out of britain , but beyond the two friths ; therefore the scots then inhabited britain . this was but a necessary explication , for bede , who used these words , after he had confessed before , that the scots under reuda did settle in britain . therefore when he used gildas his words , he thought it necessary to reconcile them with his own ; and so declares that he used transmarine now in another sense . just as if a scotish writer in bede's time had spoken of the transmarine saxons , using the words of an authour who lived before their coming into britain ; and then should explain himself , that he did not mean the german saxons , but those who lived in britain , beyond the two friths ; would this prove , that the saxons lived here before caesar's time ? and if this be an argument clear to a demonstration , some mens demonstrations will hardly amount to the strength of a probable argument . and i am apt to fear no mens way of reasoning more than those who talk most of demonstrations . what if st. jerome mentions the scoti from porphyrie , and the attacotti as a british nation , what doth this prove as to the scots inhabiting britain so long agon ? could there be no scots but in britain , when it is confessed they came originally out of ireland ? sidonius apollinaris doth mention the scots and picts , in his panegyrick to (s) authemius ; but what then ? who denies that the scots and picts did then fight and were beaten in britain ? but could not they be beaten here then unless they came into britain before julius caesar ? is this clear to a demonstration ? but it is observable , that in the verse before he calls the caledonians britains even then . victricia caesar signa caledonios transvexit ad usque britannos . fuderit & quanquam scotum , & cum saxone pictum . where it is evident he distinguisheth the caledonian britains from the scots and picts . but claudian mentions the scots as settled in britain before his time . if it be granted ; that falls very much short of alexander or julius caesar's time ; yet there appears no demonstration for it . his words are , (t) scotorum cumulos flevit glacialis ierne . but there is a certain place in scotland called by that name . i will not dispute it ; but are we sure that claudian knew it by that name ? was that so considerable to be taken such notice of by the roman writers ? was not ireland then called ierne by him ? and doth he not mention the scots moving all ierne ? (u) totam cùm scotus iernen movit , & infesto spumavit remige tethys ? and is not this very poetical , to say , he moved all a certain little part of scotland ? from whence they might pass beyond the wall , without so much as touching the ocean ? must these things pass for demonstrations too ? i mention these evidences , which the weight of the cause is laid upon , to shew how far these antiquities are still from being cleared , to the satisfaction of impartial men. for i had no luddus my kinsman , nor buchanan my enemy ; i search for nothing but truth in such enquiries , it being as much to my satisfaction , that the scots came into britain in alexander's time , as any time after , if it can be as well proved . but it doth not become the ingenuity of learned men , when all judicious persons in the nations about us have rejected their fabulous antiquities , to adhere to them without producing better proofs of them ; and that with so much violence as if the interest of the nation , and the succession of the royal family were concerned in them : which hath far stronger grounds to stand upon than the authority of hector boethius , or the race of kings between the two fergusses , or the certain time when the scots came first into britain . having thus far given an account of the antiquities relating to the picts and scots , the mortal enemies of the britains ; i now come to pursue my main design , which relates to the antiquities of the british churches , whose declining state and condition i am now arrived at . and the first occasion thereof was , the laying them open to the fury of their greatest enemies , the picts and the scots . it is impossible for us to set down the punctual time when the scots and the picts first join'd their forces together to give disturbance to the britains , but it is clear that they did so towards the middle of the fourth century . for (x) ammianus marcellinus , speaking of the incursions they made in the time of constantius , when julian was caesar , an. dom. . he saith , that julian , being then at paris , durst not go over to the assistence of the britains against the scots and the picts , as constans had done before . which expedition of his happen'd anno dom. . after his success over the franks , and he passed an edict , still exstant in the (y) theodosian code , when he was at bologn , in his passage , which bears date that year ; and a coin of his is mention'd by (z) du cange and (a) spanheim , wherein the effigies of constans is on one side , and on the reverse , an armed man on shipboard , with the image of victory , and the inscription of bononia oceanen ; being coined on purpose to preserve the memory of this passage . and upon his coming over , things were quieted here , but not long after , they began to make new incursions , within the bounds of the province , as is evident from the foregoing passage of ammianus marcellinus , when lupicinus was sent over , who arrived at london , saith he , in the middle of winter , to take counsel how to proceed . in the time of valentinian , the same historian (b) saith , that there seem'd to be a general disturbance through the whole empire , by the barbarous nations who lay near them ; and , among the rest , he mentions the picts ( whom some render redshanks ) the saxons , the scots , and the attacots , who were continually vexing and doing mischief to the britains , so that in a little time , the (c) britains were reduced to a miserable condition by a new conspiracy of the barbarians , wherein nectaridus the comes maritimi tractûs , or roman admiral , and fallofaudes , the general , were both killed . and then valentinian sent over theodosius ; a famous captain ( father to the first emperour of that name ) with considerable forces . for at that time , the picts of both kinds , the deucalidones and vecturiones ; the attacotti , a fierce nation , and the scots , dispersing themselves up and down , did abundance of mischief ; but theodosius , leaving london , dispersed his forces likewise into several parts , who surprized the enemies , and recover'd their booty , which they restored to the owners , onely reserving a small share for the souldiers ; and so in a short time , he put the city out of its fears and difficulties , and entred it as it were in triumph : and then took care to have good officers placed here ; civilis for administration of justice ; and dulcitius for military affairs . who these attacotti were , who joyn'd with the picts and scots ; our antiquaries are not agreed ; but because of their joining with the other , and yet being distinguished from them , it seems most probable , that they were the wild britains ; for (d) st. hierome doth say , they were a british people . but what the reason of the name was , is not yet understood , and i doubt will not be , unless some happen to derive it from the phoenician language . what great mischief had been done to the britains , by this combination of their enemies , appears by the care taken by theodosius , after his beating them out of the countrey , to restore the cities and garrisons , and to settle the guards upon the frontiers ; which being done , that part of the countrey which he recover'd from them , he obtained leave to have it named a new province . and it was called valentia , from the emperour's name . this was done anno domini . and the next year theodosius returned to the emperour's court. from that time we reade no more of their incursions till maximus , in the time of gratian , son to valentinian , was set up by the souldiery in britain , to be emperour . then (e) prosper , set out by pithaeus , saith , maximus overcame the picts and scots , making new incursions . which he thought he had done so effectually as to fear no disturbance on that sides , and therefore took away from hence all the flower both of the roman and british souldiery , to make good his title against gratian and valentinian , and after , against theodosius ; so that there was no possibility of their return , to secure the frontiers from their enemies . and this proved the fatal blow to the britains . for the empire being so divided , and maximus forced to keep his army together , those parts were left open to the rage and fury of their merciless enemies . and if the (f) authour of the eulogium and giraldus cambrensis may be believed , gratian and valentinian entred into a league with the gothick picts , and helped them with shipping to convey them into the northern parts of britain , on purpose to withdraw maximus his army out of gaul : who coming thither in great numbers , and finding the countrey naked and without defence , settled themselves in those parts . not as though the picts had not come hither before , but they never came over in so great numbers and with so much incouragement as they did now . and it seems not improbable , that gratian and valentinian should at that time deal with the gothick nation to give a diversion to maximus . for (g) zosimus assigns that as one of the great causes of gratian's ruine , that he seemed more fond of the barbarous nations than of the romans : and maximus charged valentinian , with making use of the hunns and the alani against him ; which is not denied by (h) st. ambrose , who was sent by valentinian on an embassy to him . these hunni and alani were , as is commonly said , inhabitants of sarmatia europaea near to the palus maeotis . the alani did live upon the tanais , saith (i) hadrianus valesius ; and the hunni , saith he , were a scythian people , between the pontus and the caspian sea , upon the northern parts of the caucasus , from whom the abares , turks and hungarians are descended . but whosoever observes (k) ammianus marcellinus his description of them , will find that the hunni were the asiatick tartars ; and the alani the european . the hunni in the time of valens passed over the palus maeotis in vast numbers , and after , having killed many of the alani , took the rest into confederacy with them , and having conquer'd the goths in those parts , inlarged their power as far as the danube : where they lay ready to come into the roman empire on any occasion . and it is not to be wonder'd if gratian should employ persons into scandinavia to draw out greater forces from thence , thereby to make a revulsion , as to maximus his designs in the northern parts of britain . however this were , gildas from this time dates the miserable condition of the britains , as being in no posture to defend themselves at home . (l) nennius saith , that maximianus ( as he calls him ) carried all the forces out of britain , and killed gratian the emperour ; and would not let the british souldiers return to their wives , children or possessions , but gave them another countrey instead of it ; in the western parts of gaul , saith the interpolatour of nennius . and these , saith nennius , are the aremorican britains , who never after returned to their own countrey . and from hence , he saith , britain was seized upon by foreign nations , and its own natives were driven out ; and would so continue till god helped them . but the british history , set forth by (m) geffrey , hath improved the story in many particulars . first , it makes this maximianus to marry the daughter of octavius , and so to come to the kingdom of britain ; then , it adds , that conanus retired into albany , and raised an army , which was overthrown by maximianus , who after five years passed into gaul , and fought first against the armoricans , whose countrey he gave to conanus and his britains ; who , resolving not to marry any others than british women , he sent over messengers to dionotus , king of cornwall , to whom maximianus , had committed the government of britain , to provide wives for them ; and he sent with ursula his own daughter eleven thousand of the better sort , and of the common sixty thousand . but these were unhappily , by storms either sunk or driven into those places , where guanius , king of the hunns , and melga , king of the picts , who were consederates with gratian , were joined with their armies , who cruelly destroyed them . after which they came into albany , where they made havock of all places they came near . then maximianus sent gratianus municeps with two legions who subdued the hunns and picts , and drove them into ireland . here we have many fabulous particulars put together , but none comparable to the virgins sunk or destroyed by the hunns . and yet geffrey's relation of this legend is magnified by (n) baronius , and approved by (o) m. velserus , (p) aub. miraeus , and (q) aegid . bucherius , as most agreeable to the circumstances of the time . which is a thing to be wonder'd at ; considering how little foundation there is for any one particular of geffrey's whole relation , either as to octavius , then king of britain , or the marrying his daughter to maximus , or as to conanus going first into albany , and thence into aremorica , or the settling of the british souldiers there , at so busie a time , when maximus wanted all the assistence he could get ; or the sending to dionotus , or the sending away such a number of virgins at once , without any fleet to conduct or secure their passage . but (r) browerus hath overthrown this legend at once , by proving that aremorica was not in the britains possession till a good time after this ; for , as he well observes , maximus was kindly received in gaul , and met with no considerable opposition there , gratian's own souldiers revolting to him , and he passed on and settled himself at triers , ( then the seat of this part of the empire ) as gildas saith ; and besides , in the time of actius , the aremorici enjoy'd their own countrey ( as he proves from constantius his life of st. german ) about anno dom. . after which time they stood up in their own defence , till they were reduced by littorius , which he shews from sidonius apollinaris . and (s) rutilius claudius , in the beginning of the fifth century , after maximus his time , mentions the aremorici , as still enjoying their countrey , where exuperantius was then governour . saying , that after the troubles by the goths they had postliminium pacis ; which evidently proves , they were not then kept out of possession . cujus aremoricas patèr exuperantius oras nunc postliminium pacis amare docet leges restituit libertatemque reducit et servos famulis non sinit esse suis. and this was written after the sacking of rome by the goths ; so that there is no foundation for this legend in the time of maximus . aegid . bucherius , although he approves of geffrey , as to the time , and some other circumstances , yet he differs from him in others . for he goes upon these grounds , that maximus landed at the mouth of the rhine , as zosimus saith , that there they left the multitude of women and virgins which follow'd the army out of britain ; where the hunns which bauto sent against maximus fell upon them and destroy'd them . this is no ill-contrived story ; but very different from the legend in geffrey , in all the considerable parts of it : and yet after all , bucherius thinks fit to yield up his faith to the old legend , as it is defended by bebius and crombachius ; and so it is taken off from the time of maximus . (t) joh. fordon , agrees with geffrey about maximus his giving the countrey of aremorica to conanus and his britains , anno dom. . but he is so far from mentioning the virgins , that he supposes the britains of both sexes to have settled there together . but he makes a more credible relation of conanus his going over to aremorica , which is , that maximus mistrusted he might set up for himself in his absence , having the legal title to britain , and therefore he removed him and the chief of the britains , and settled them in those parts of gaul . this is no improbable story ; but yet the aremoricans enjoying their countrey after this time , is an effectual confutation of it . after the death of maximus , more troubles following in the roman empire , the picts and the scots , saith (u) fordon , negotiate a mutual peace and stricter alliance , in order , saith he , to the recovering their countrey again . for maximus had made use of the picts to drive out the scots , and then put garrisons among the picts to keep them under . and upon this agreement , an. d. . in the sixth of arcadius and honorius , fergus the son of erk the son of ethadius the brother of eugenius , who was driven out by maximus , came with his two brothers ( called there loarii and tenegus , in all probability loarn and aengus , which were the names , the irish annals give to the brothers of fergus , as is observed before ) and great supplies of scots from the islands of ireland and norwey , whither they were driven : and the picts , to prevent all suspicion of treachery surrendred up their forts to fergus . who now became king of all scotland , i. e. of that part which is beyond drum albain , as well as on this other , which , he saith , it doth not appear how he came to , whether by the sword or by any other right , none of his predecessours having any power there . (w) bede saith , the romans had the right of dominion to the remotest part of the island : which is not easie to make out , unless the possession and conquest were better proved than appears by bede's history . for although he mentions claudius his conquering the orcades ; yet it is hard to prove it by any roman authours ; and if the possession were after lost , for so long a time , it will be as hard to prove the romans still enjoy'd the right of dominion upon so slender a title . but the picts and scots being thus united , their first work , saith fordon , was to drive out the ●omans and britains from their countrey , and then to invade britain , which was then left destitute of any defence : and so by their incursions they either killed the common people , or made them slaves . here fordon transcribes bede's twelfth chapter of his first book ; the foundation whereof he took out of gildas , concerning the departure of the british forces without returning ; the invasion of the scots and picts ; the britains sending an address to rome for assistence ; a roman legion coming and driving out their enemies ; and persuading the britains to build a wall for their own security . but it is observable , that bede varies from gildas without reason ; for what gildas speaks of their departure with maximus , he applies to the going of the remainders of the british forces under constantinus and constans , after gratianus municeps was killed in britain having usurped the empire here . but that bede was herein mistaken will best appear by digesting the times wherein these things happen'd as well as we can . (x) zosimus saith , that honorius vii . and theodosius ii. being consuls , viz. a.d. . ( nineteen years after the death of maximus , as (y) archbishop vsher observes , (z) olympiodorus in photius saith , the year before , orosius and sozomen the year after , viz. the year when arcadius died ; ) the british souldiers in a mutiny set up one marcus to be emperour , as a man of great power in these parts ; but he , not answering their expectation , they soon took him off , and then set up gratianus , ( who was a native of britain , for so much (a) orosius his words imply , when he saith , he was municeps ejusdem insulae ) and made him put on the royal purple and crown , &c. but he not pleasing them , after four months they take away his life . (b) of him nennius saith nothing ; but he mentions one severus between maximus and constantius , whom others omit ; but (c) geffrey makes gratianus to assume the royal authority assoon as he heard of the death of maximus ; but he was so tyrannical , he saith , that the common people rose up and killed him ; and after his death the britains , according to him , sent to rome , to beg help against the picts and scots . but zosimus and orosius both say ; that , upon the death of gratianus , they set up here constantine , a mean person ( for the good omen of his name saith orosius ) who immediately left britain , and passed over into gaul , where he gained the army to him , and made his son constans caesar , and sent him into spain . olympiodorus saith , that he sent a message and excuse to honorius , for assuming the imperial dignity , that he was forced to it by the army ; and that honorius allow'd the excuse , and for a time admitted him into partnership with him . but gerontius a britain , one of the generals , finding himself slighted by constans , made a revolt among his souldiers and stirr'd up the barbarous nations in gaul against constantine ; upon which occasion , saith zosimus , the british islands , and some of the celtick nations renounced the roman empire ; and took up arms to defend themselves from the incursions of their enemies : and honorius by his letters gave them leave to take care of themselves . not long after constans is killed by gerontius , and constantine , after the siege of arles , had his head cut off by (d) honorius his order . but (e) nennius , against the consent of all the greek and latin historians , both heathen and christian , saith , that this constantine reigned years in britain , and in the seventeenth died at york . however he falls much short of (f) geffrey ; for , he saith , that constantine was brother to aldroenus , king of the aremorican britains , to whom guithelin , metropolitane of london was sent on an embassy to accept the government , which he put off to constantine , who was chosen king at silcester , and had a roman wife of guithelin 's education , by whom he had three sons , constans a monk at winchester , aurelius ambrosius , and uther pendragon , who were committed to guithelin 's care . after constantine 's death , who was killed by a pict , there happen'd a great contest about the succession ; but by vortigern 's means constans is taken from the monastery , and set on the throne at london ; but guithelin was now dead , and vortigern put the diadem on his head , who governed all things , and soon got himself rid of him by a guard of picts he had placed about him , and so took the government upon himself . but i shall set aside these fictions or traditions of geffrey and nennius , and consider now what bede saith , he makes gratianus municeps to be set up two years before the sacking of rome by alaric , king of the goths , which happen'd anno dom. . and he follows orosius , about constantine and his son constans , without ever imagining their continuing to govern , and losing their lives in britain : but then he applies the passage in gildas , concerning the lamentable condition of the britains , and their help from the romans , to the times after the death of constantine ; whereas gildas mentions both upon the usurpation of maximus , and his withdrawing the forces from hence ; and therefore this first cruel invasion of the picts and scots must be between the death of maximus , and the setting up of gratianus municeps : and then the britains so earnestly begging for assistence , had roman governours and forces sent to their relief . some think that (g) claudius rutilius mentions victorinus as a roman governouor here in that time , but this is uncertain , when he there speaks of the taking tholouse by the goths , which was done by ataulphus some time after the death of alaric ; and therefore could not be before the time of gratian and constantine ; for idatius saith , that this latter was killed before ataulphus entred narbon , which was before the taking of tholouse . it is evident from many passages in (h) claudian , that stilicho , took particular care of the supplies of the britains against the scots and picts : but stilicho was killed by the army when bassus and philippus were consuls , anno dom. . before the first siege of rome by the goths ; and therefore the roman forces sent by him were before the vsurpation of gratianus and constantine : stilicho being killed the same year that these were set up in britain , it is not possible he should doe it after their death ; and it seems not probable that any supplies should be sent through gaul while constantine remained there , the army through which they were to pass in gaul taking part with constantine against honorius . and withall gildas saith , that the roman legion , having driven out the picts and scots , returned in triumph to rome : and so much is confessed by bede . but at what time should we suppose , after the vsurpation of constantine , that a roman legion should return in so much triumph ? for after constantine's usurpation the roman empire began to decline extremely in those parts through which they were to pass : gaul being upon composition (i) delivered up to the goths by honorius , and the franks and burgundians making continual impressions there . i conclude it therefore most probable , that the first supplies given to the britains were not after constantine's vsurpation , but between the death of maximus , and the setting up of gratianus municeps . the second time the distressed britains were forced to solicit the romans for supplies , is placed by (k) archbishop vsher , an. dom. . when gallio ravennas was sent hither , as he supposes , because the next year prosper , saith gallio , was sent against bonifacius in africa . but then he makes the first supplies to have been in the latter end of honorius ; for which i can see no reason . for he grants , that after the death of maximus , the scots and the picts did waste britain ; and that then stilicho did send assistence to them . why then should the first wasting of the countrey , spoken of by gildas , and the legion sent upon it , be that in the latter end of honorius , and not rather that in the beginning ? for the latter end of honorius his reign was very perplexed and troublesome . the alani , suevi and vandali were in spain ; the franks , burgundians and goths in gaul ; iovinus and sebastian there , after constantine's death , usurped the empire ; and although the goths ▪ going into spain , did great service against the other barbarians , yet such were the straits of the roman empire in gaul , that constantius , who then managed the affairs of the empires was forced to recall them , as both prosper and idatius say , monaxius and plinta being consuls ( which was the twenty fourth of honorius , ) and to give them all that part in gaul from the garonne to the ocean . the year before honorius his death , he was forced to send his forces under castinus into spain , against the vandals , as prosper affirms ; and that proved the occasion of new troubles in africa , by the difference between castinus and bonifucius , who , for his own security , conveyed over the vandals thither . it is not therefore very probable , that the first supplies of the britains should be in the latter end of honorius , especially since the learned primate confesseth that honorius did not in his time recover the province of britain , and he proves it against sabellicus from procopius , bede , the saxon annals and ethelwerd . and the single testimony of sigebert , that honorius , at the same time , sent assistence to the britains , that he did to the spaniards ( when prosper , idatius and cassiodore , who all mention the latter , say not a word of the former ) cannot weigh down the reasons on the other side . but as to the second supplies which were sent upon the mighty importunity of the britains ; they were in probability in the beginning of the reign of valentinian iii. after that aêtius had somewhat recover'd the credit of the roman empire in gaul : for after his success there , both against the goths and franks he had liberty enough to send over a legion to the assistence of the britains , who were again miserably harass'd by the scots and picts . and at this time it was that gildas saith , the romans , upon the sad representations the british embassadours made of their pitifull condition , sent them speedy supplies , who coming upon their enemies on a sudden , like a violent torrent , drove them all before them , and made them repass the seas : which is an argument , they did not then inhabit in britain . but the romans then plainly told the britains , they were not at leisure to bring over legions as often as their enemies invaded them : but they must train up their own people to arms to defend themselves and their wives and children against a sort of men no ways stronger than themselves . and , to incourage them the more , they built a wall of stone from sea to sea , and forts on the shore , and exercised them in arms , taking their leave of them , and telling them , they must expect their return no more . this is the substance of gildas his relation , with whom bede agrees ; onely inlarging the description of the wall , which , he saith , was eight foot in breadth and twelve in height , and that it stood where the wall of severus stood , being all made of stone , and not of turf , as that unserviceable wall was , which the britains had before without skill and direction built for themselves . it hath been much disputed among our learned antiquaries where this last wall stood , whether in the place where the former of turf was raised by the britains between the two friths , or where hadrian's wall was first built , between the tine and the esk bede puts a great distance between these two walls , and makes the former to have been between the two friths , beginning at a place called peneltun , two miles from abercorney , and ending to the west , near alcluyd : which , saith he , signifies a rock in the river cluyd . but the latter wall was from sea to sea , in a direct line , between the cities there built for security against incursions , and it stood in the place of severus his wall. (l) joh. fordon distinguishes between the old wall called grimes-dike , from grime , a britain ( whose daughter fergus married , and after his death , ruled over the scots during his grand-child's minority : and which wall , he saith , this grime overthrew , and so recovered the ancient possessions due to him as descended from fulgenius ) and the other wall built where severus his stood : and he gives very different descriptions of them . the former wall , he saith , begins from the east , upon the south-side of the scotish shore , near a village called karedin , and then for twenty two miles crosses the land , leaving glasgow on the south ; and ends on the bank of the river clyd , near kirk-patrick . the other , he saith , begins on the east in the southern bank of the tyne to gaitsheved , or goats-head , where severus , saith he , a long time before had made a wall and a trench over against new-castle ; and so it is continued to the river esk , called scotishwath , for sixty miles , and ends near carlisle , on the west . but (m) buchanan contends , that severus his wall was where graham's dike , or grimes-dike was , and at least eighty miles distant from hadrian 's wall ; which he proves from the antiquities there found , and the square stones taken up ; which do sufficiently prove an ancient stone wall to have been there , but not that of severus : and the roman inscriptions in (n) camden mention antoninus , and not severus . joh. (o) major places severus his wall as fordon doth between the tyne and the esk. but archbishop (p) vsher hath endeavoured to clear this matter , by yielding to buchanan , that the scotish wall was made of stone , viz. by the romans under gallio ravennas , and by proving that bede was mistaken as to severus his wall being made of turf before , which was the reason he thought it turned into stone at this time ; it being not likely , that the romans would bring the britains at least eighty miles back , and put them to defend a wall so very much longer than the other ; but i rather think severus his wall was now repaired , and a larger scope allow'd for the picts and scots ; as , besides what hath been said before , may appear by this one argument from (q) fordon . he saith , that when the scots made a new incursion , they open'd passages in the wall , from whence it was called thirle-wall , i. e. saith he , murus perforatus . now the learned (r) primate grants , that a place called thirle-wall stood on the borders of cumberland and northumberland : and that fordon saith , thirle-wall was built by severus on the tyne . and therefore bede seems to have been in the right as to severus his wall , but onely mistaken in thinking it was made of turf before , which was built of stone by severus , and accounted one of the great works of the roman empire , which was impossible to be built of stone a-new by one legion and the help of the countrey ; but might very well be repaired , and made desensible against the scots and picts . we might now think that the britains were left by the romans in a tolerable condition to defend themselves ; but assoon as their old enemies understood that their old friends had forsaken them , they came upon them with a greater force and violence than ever . and the spirits of the poor britains were so broken by their former miseries , that they were not able to withstand the assaults of their enemies : but they forsook their wall and forts , and fled as far as they could , and dispersed themselves , which made them an easie prey to their barbarous enemies , who now destroyed them in a more cruel manner than they had done before ; and those who escaped were driven from their habitations , and hardly left in a condition to subsist , having no provision left , but what they did get by hunting . this is the short account of what gildas more tragically inlarges upon . and being thus reduced to the utmost extremities , they resolve once more to send to aêtius their last groans ; and to let him understand how unable they were to stand out against their enemies , seeing between them and the sea they were either drowned or butchered . but all farther assistence was now denied them ; aêtius being then , as (s) bede saith , deeply engaged in the war with bleda and attila , kings of the hunns . this message was sent , saith bede in the d . of theodosius , aêtius being then third time consul with symmachus . but bleda , according to prosper and cassiodore , was killed by attila two years before aêtius and symmachus were consuls ( but one year before according to marcellinus ) but the year following he makes the terrible invasion of europe by attila to be ; and so aêtius having then a prospect of that war , had just reason to deny supplies to the britains . and when valentinian was vi. consul , the year before aêtius and symmachus , it appears by valentinian's letters to him , that he was then in gaul , for then he directed the famous constitution de episcoporum ordinatione to him there ; wherein he interposes his authority to ratifie leo's sentence against hilary of arles . but this is sufficient to shew that the britains complaints were then sent to aêtius , and not to any agitius or aequitius , as some imagine . (t) fordon saith , the britains sent to agitius and litorius ; but litorius some years before was beaten , and taken prisoner by the goths , as appears by the fasti consulares both of prosper and cassiodore , and (u) paulus diaconus out of them . but the miseries of the britains were still increased by a famine which then raged ; which was not peculiar to britain . (w) bede saith , that there was then a famine at constantinople , and a great plague which follow'd it , which consumed abundance both of men and beasts . which he borrows from marcellinus who makes both famine and plague to break out the very year aêtius and symmachus were consuls . both these are mention'd by (x) euagrius in the eastern parts , and therefore are not to be looked on as a peculiar judgment on the britains . after this , as (y) gildas and bede tell us , finding their case almost desperate , the britains were resolved to sell their lives and liberties as dear as they could , and by making a fierce assault upon their enemies , they began to get the better of them ; which they impute to their trusting rather to divine assistence than to the help of men , which they too much relied upon before . the britains , as appears afterward , did not want courage , but exercise in arms ; being kept under so long by the romans , they durst not so much as pretend to fighting , for fear of being destroyed ; and now the romans , when they had a mind , could not infuse new spirits into them ; but their own miseries at last roused and awaken'd them to that degree , that they made their enemies quiet for some time ; and the irish robbers , saith gildas , returned home , intending to return shortly : and the picts in the farthest part of the island lay still , onely sometimes making excursions . this is a considerable passage in gildas , which shews , that even then the scots , whom he calls irish robbers , were not inhabitants of any part of britain . for he calls ireland their home , as before he said upon the second devastation ( as the margin of joselin's gildas hath it ) that they came in their curroghs over the scythian vale , so he calls the irish sea ; as nennius calls the scots , scytae . but if they had then inhabited in britain , there had been no use of curroghs to convey them over , and this had been their proper home . (x) fordon seems to have been aware of this objection , and therefore saith , the scots and picts took the irish in to their assistence ; but gildas takes notice of no other scots than those that came out of ireland , and returned back again . (y) buchanan saith , that upon the success of grime against the britains , many strangers came in to the scots assistence , and had their shares allow'd them in the conquer'd lands . but he takes no notice of gildas or bede's saying , that those very people who fought with the britains returned home to ireland ; and the picts were quiet in the utmost parts of the island ; where there is no mention of any third sort of people called the scots in britain . but (z) dempster undertakes from this place of gildas to prove , that the scots and irish were then distinguished , because gildas , after he had mention'd the scots and picts , here names the irish robbers . it is true , that gildas before doth mention the scots and picts ; but in this place he onely speaks of the irish and the picts , which is an argument on the other side . for either the scots had no share in these last incursions , or they must be comprehended under the name of irish , having then no settled habitations elsewhere but in ireland . but there is one passage in (a) gildas which seems to imply that it was their custome to inhabit this countrey , but solito more being there used , and they being then supposed out of britain , the word inhabit can onely imply making a longer stay here , as they were wont to doe when they had success . for their coming is described , like that of the bucaniers in the west-indies , and their stay was as they liked their entertainment . from this time gildas onely mentions the vices and the fears , and another great plague among the britains , before he comes to that pernicious counsel , as he calls it , for sending for the saxons by vortigern . but before i speak of that , while we are upon this head of the britains being thus exposed to their enemies , it will be needfull to enquire what that legionary assistence was which is mention'd in the notitia imperii , and at what time that was made ; for if the common opinion be true , that it was made after the time of honorius , then britain could not have been left so destitute of roman assistence as gildas and bede say . for by that notitia , here in britain , under the dux britanniarum ( who seems to have swallow'd up the power of the comes britanniae , whose bare title is still left in the notitia ) there was the prefect of the sixth legion at york , of the dalmatian horse at praesidium , i. e. warwick , probably first built in the time of didius gallus against the silures , and so continued its name after , as being a convenient station to keep under the provincial britains ; of the caspian horse at danum , ( doncaster ; ) of the cataphractaerii at morbium , ( moresby in cumberland ; ) and so of others , at albeia ( ierby in the same country , ) at dictam ( diganwey in carnarvanshire , ) at concangii kendal in westmoreland , ) at lavatrae ( bowes in richmondshire , ) at verterae ( burgh in westmoreland , ) at brovoniacum ( brongham in the same county , ) at maglona ( macleneth in montgomery-shire , ) at magi ( old radnor , ) at longovicum ( lanchester in the bishoprick of durham , ) at derventio ( aldby in yorkshire ; ) and besides these , there were many cohorts disposed per lineam valli , along the wall , as at segedunum ( seton or seghill in northumberland , ) pons aelii ( ponteland in the same county , ) condercum ( chester in the street , ) vindohila ( walls-end , ) hunnum ( severshale , ) cilurnum ( silchester in muro , ) procolitia ( prudlow , ) borcovicus ( borwick , ) vindolana ( winchester , ) aesica ( netherby on the esk in cumberland , ) magna ( chester in the wall , ) amboglana ( ambleside in westmoreland , ) petrianae ( old perith in cumberland , ) aballaba ( appleby in westmoreland , ) congavata ( near caudebec in cumberland , ) axellodunum ( hexam in northumberland , ) gabrosentum ( gateshead by newcastle , ) tunnocelum ( tinmouth , ) glanoventa ( a place upon the wensbeck , saith our learned (b) antiquary , ( whose judgment in the other i have follow'd ) some miles within the wall ; ) alione ( upon the river alne in cumberland , ) brementuracum ( brampton in the same county , ) olenacum ( elenborough in the same , ) virosidum ( warwick on the eden . ) now if all the military forces lay here so near to the wall , after the time of honorius , how came the britains to have been in such distress ? but we have no certainty when this notitia was made . if it were , as pancirol conjectures , in the latter end of theodosius the younger , about anno dom. . then all these roman forces were certainly withdrawn ; and any new supplies denied by aêtius in the th . of theodosius ; therefore this notitia must relate to the roman settlement here , before the time that maximus carried over the roman legions , which never returned to that station which they had before . and although the title seems to imply that it extended beyond the times of arcadius and honorius ; yet it cannot be understood of what then was , but of what had been in former times . for that the britains had then no such forces among them is apparent by what hath been said already . i now come to that fatal counsel of sending for the saxons to come to their assistence . it appears by (c) gildas , that the britains could come to no settlement among themselves . for , saith he , they anointed kings , not according to the will of god , but such as were more fierce and cruel than others , and not long after they without examination took them off , and set up worse than they . if any one was more gentle and a lover of truth , he was the most hated and maligned , as a betrayer of his countrey , they minded not what was pleasing or displeasing to god ; or rather the latter was more pleasing to them . they acted still contrary to their own interest , and there was an universal degeneracy of manners in all sorts of men ; and those who should have given the best examples , their priests and teachers , were as bad as others ; excessive drinking , heats and animosities , contentions and divisions , envy and oppression , were then so prevailing that they seemed to have lost all iudgment of good and evil ; so that then , he saith , the saying of the psalmist was fulfilled , he poureth contempt upon princes , and causeth them to wander in the wilderness , where there is no way . and when neither fear of their enemies nor the iudgments of god in a raging pestilence would doe them good , then their iniquities , saith he , growing full , like the amorites , they fell into consultation , what was best for them to doe against their enemies incursions , and they all agreed to invite the saxons over to assist them . upon which he breaks out into a strange admiration of that stupidity and infatuation which the britains were then under , to call in a nation to help them whom they dreaded worse than death . for the saxons had been terrible for some time before to the british nation ; which was the occasion of calling the shore on both sides the saxon shore , and setting up such an admiral here by the romans , who was called comes litoris saxon per britanniam . which shews that the saxons were then very well known for their great piracies , and had been so from the time of carausius : for then , (d) eutropius saith , he was employ'd to scour the seas from the franks and saxons who were very troublesome . it appears by (e) tacitus , that gannascus , with the chauci , did , in claudius his time , infest the gallican shore with piracy . (f) zosimus saith , that the saxons , who were the stoutest of all the barbarous nations , sent out the quadi , a part of their own people , into the roman territories . by these quadi (g) cluverius and (h) bucherius understand the cauchi . but (i) archbishop vsher shews , that these were neither the quadi nor the cauchi , but the chamavi , from eunapius , whom zosimus transcribes , and from julian himself : but from hence it appears , that the chamavi were then accounted a part of the saxons , who , according to (k) cluverius , there lived near the river amisia , a great way on this side the elb or the weser ; and eunapius places them not far from the rhine . however , this proves , that the name of saxons then comprehended nations of other denominations . but , to make this out , we are to consider , that zosimus saith , that in the time of constantius , three german nations brake forth as it were at once on the roman empire ; the franks , the alemanni and the saxons ; and had taken and destroyed forty cities on the rhine . and saint (l) hierome mentions the franks , as lying between the alemanni and the saxons . these three , as (m) beatus rhenanus observes , comprehended the several nations of germany ; and , as the late learned bishop of (n) munster saith , the saxons was a name belonging to different , but neighbour nations , which joyned together upon a common interest . and , not improbably , had their name at first from the short swords they did commonly wear called sachs ; as the quirites had their name from quiris , a sort of spear ; and the scythians , from scytten , to shoot with a bow. (o) witikindus first mentions this etymology , which is follow'd by others ; but (p) reinerus reneccius and (q) gryphiander do much more incline to another derivation , viz. from sassen , which in the german tongue is the same with natives or inhabitants ; and which in the modern saxon is saten ; as gross is grote ; and so holsati are the same with holt-saten , men that lived in woods . but why this , which was common to other germans , should give a particular denomination to one sort , is not so easie to apprehend : but tacitus , speaking of some of the northern germans , saith , that the common badges of them are round shields and short swords : and the arms of saxony to this day , as (r) pontanus observes , are two short swords a-cross . as to those who derive the saxons from the sacae of asia , as though they were sacasones ; although there be persons of great name who embrace that opinion ( among whom our (s) mr. camden is one ) yet i think it no more probable , than that the germans are derived from the plowmen of persia , some whereof , herodotus saith , were called germanii . for a bare similitude of names is no sufficient ground to judge of the affinity of people ; nor the agreement of some words , as in the german and persian languages ( which mr. camden insists on ) to conclude the people of the same original : unless there be a probable account withall given , how they came to be propagated from each other , i. e. how the persian germans came into these parts ; and how the sacae left their own countrey to people saxony . but under this name of saxons , not onely those who originally had that name , but all those who joined with them , were comprehended . and it is observable , that not one of the three names of the german nations then in use was known in tacitus his time . the alemanni are first spoken of by (t) spartianus , in the life of caracalla ; and , as (u) agathias saith from asinius quadratus , they were an association of many people together under that name , as the word imports . the name of franks was first known in the time of (w) aurelian , and took in several of the old german names , the scicambri , chatti , tencteri , and many others ; thence (x) st. jerome saith , that france was that which historians called germany ; and so the saxons was a general name for the northern germans , who chiefly lived upon the sea-shore , from the amasis to the weser and elb , as far as the eydor , unto the cimbrick chersonese , that had peculiar appellations . for although the testimony of (y) ptolemy be commonly produced for the saxons living on the back of the cimbrick chersonese , yet mr. selden's ms. in both places , leaves out the Σ , and capnio , as (z) cisnerus observes , contends , it ought to be read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but i lay no weight upon this . but it is certain , that the people in tacitus his time were called fosi , who lived in the place where the saxons are supposed to have been . (a) cluverius makes a very unhappy conjecture , that fosi , in tacitus , was corrupted , for sasoni ; because they lived in holstein , and about sleswick ; but it is far more probable , that the name of saxons was then generally assumed by the northern germans when they joined their forces together , and resolved to make some expeditions abroad , as the franks and alemanni had done . which they did with so great success , that (b) zosimus saith , in the time of julian they went down the rhine , and drove out the salii , a nation of the franks , out of the island of the batavi . but it seems very probable , that the saxons had placed themselves near the sea-shore , from the time of dioclesian , when carausius was employ'd against them . (c) orosius describes them as a people living on the sea-shore ; and so do isidore and paulus diaconus after him . ammianus (d) marcellinus mentions them , as bordering , in valentinian 's time , on the parts of gaul as well as the franks . but about this point our two learned antiquaries differ , (e) camden saith , that the saxons originally came from the cimbrick chersonese , in the time of dioclesian ; and after , passing the elb , they partly went into those parts of the suevi , which are since called saxony , and partly into frisia and batavia ; from whence , he saith , all the inhabitants of the german shore , who used piracy at sea , were called saxons ; by which he understands the people from jutland to holland . for which he produces the testimony of fabius ethelwerd , of the royal bloud of the saxons ; who saith , that the saxons lived upon the sea coasts , from the rhine as far as denmark . but archbishop (f) vsher will not allow , that the saxons had seated themselves upon those coasts then , but onely that they did exercise their piracies along them . he grants , that before bede 's time , the saxons took possession of the places quitted by the franks , when they went into gaul , and not onely inhabited on the coast between the elb and the rhine , but in the inner parts of the countrey ; but he denies , that this was before the saxons coming into britain . but then fabius ethelwerd did not understand where his countreymen lived before they came into britain ; and if the saxons in valentinian's time , were still onely in the cimbrick chersonese , how comes ammianus marcellinus to make them to border upon the parts of gaul ? are either jutland or holstein , or sleswick , or any of those countries contiguous to gaul ? yet his words are , gallicanos tractus franci & saxones iisdem confines , &c. which , that it is not to be understood , that the saxons were neighbours to the franks ; but that the franks and saxons then bordered upon the gauls , will appear from hence , the franks were then in taxandria , as is plain by (g) ammianus his words , in the time of julian , and in batavia ; and withall , zosimus speaks of the salii , who were undoubtedly franks , being driven out of the island of the batavi by some of the saxons . and this was no incursion of the franks , for ammianus marcellinus saith , they did there fix their habitations : and the chamavi , whom he makes a part of the saxons , had that command of the rhine , that julian made peace with them , because without their leave , corn could not be brought out of britain , as (h) eunapius sardianus saith : and so (i) libanius and (k) zosimus say , that julian took greater care for the transporting corn out of britain , as had been accustomed , by building more ships on the rhine for that purpose ; and (l) ammianus marcellinus saith , he built granaries instead of those which were burnt . such a one the arx britannica , in the mouth of the rhine , was made from a magazine , and thence probably , saith (m) camden , had its name , because the corn was conveyed thither out of britain . from thence it follows , that the saxons so early as julian's time , had the command of the rhine . for , whether these were the chauci , the quadi , or the chamavi ; yet zosimus saith , that they were a people of the saxons . but it may be said , that this was onely a sudden incursion , and that they were driven out again by the roman forces . so indeed zosimus and julian relate it , but how then come the saxons in valentinian's time to border still upon gaul ? so that , if they were driven out by julian , they quickly returned , and fixed their habitations by the sea , as the salii , who were franks , did in taxandria ; which was more within land : and where , as (n) godfrey wendelin hath endeavoured to prove , the salick law was first made . which taxandria ; according to him , was bounded by the maes on the east and north ; by the tamera on the south , and by the scheld on the west ; and here , upon submission , the franks were permitted to live ; and this was thence forward called francia minor , and he mentions a place there still called vranrijck , the kingdom of france ( but a very small one ) and others called seilberg , the mountain of the salii , seelbendens , the salian meadows , seleheim , the house of the salii : but the other franks being by stilicho's means driven out of their possessions beyond the rhine , they came into the parts about tongres near to taxandria , and there joined in one body ; and set up kings among themselves , as he shews from gregorious turonensis , and then they made that body of laws , called the salick laws . but to return to the saxons . (o) vbbo emmius , a learned and judicious historian , gives this account of the saxons and their neighbour nations , who inhabited on the northern parts of germany . the frisii dwelt from the middle stream of the rhine , about vtrecht , to the river amasus , ( eems ; ) from thence to the elb lived the chauci , divided into the greater and lesser by the weser ; a great part of these , leaving their native soil , joined with the sicambri on the rhine , who , from their affecting liberty , were called franks ; beyond the elb were the saxons and the cimbri ; these saxons , being pressed by the more northern people , or for their own conveniency , came southwards , and took possession first of those places where the chauci dwelt ; and by degrees prevailing , all the other people , who joined with or submitted to the saxons , were called by their name : and among the rest the frisii ; from whose coasts he supposes the two brothers , hengist and horsa , to have gon into britain ; and , returning thither , carried over a far greater number with them , not so much to fight , as to inhabit there . he thinks it most probable , that hengist and horsa , by their descent , were originally saxons ; but that the greatest part of the people who went over with them were rather frisians than saxons . which he proves , not onely from the greater facility of passage from the coasts of friseland , and the testimony of their own annals ; but from the greater agreement of the english language with theirs than with the saxon or any other german dialect . and because (p) bede reckons the frisians among those from whom the english are derived ; and wilfrid , wickbert , willibrord preach'd to the frisians in their own tongue , as he proves from marcellinus his life of suîdbert : and procopius reckons the frisians among the inhabitants of britain . but he saith farther , that the affinity of the languages continues still so very great , that from thence he concludes many more to have gon out of friseland into britain , than either of the saxons , iutes or angles . but to all this our learned (q) primate answers , that hengist and horsa might be true frisians , there being a frisia in the southern parts of jutland , which saxo grammaticus calls the lesser frisia , and is parted by the eidore from the countrey of the angli on the east , and of the saxons on the south . but whatever suffridus petrus , or such authours contend for , as to hengist and horsa being originally frisians , vbbo emmius quits that point upon (r) bede's genealogy , and grants they were saxons : being the sons of victgilsus , whose father was vitta , the son of vecta , whose father was voden , of whose race the kings of many provinces are descended . it doth not seem at all probable , that these lived in the lesser frisia , which is hardly taken notice of by any but by (s) saxo grammaticus ; and (t) pontanus tells us , is not above four german miles in length upon the sea-shore ; but suppose that saxo comprehended dithmars under it ; yet we have no certainty that the colony of frisians was removed thither before hengist and horsa came for britain ; and helmoldus seems to imply that it was brought thither by adolphus ii. count of holstein , about anno dom. . but the question is not concerning hengist and horsa , but the greater number of the people , which might be still of the greater frisia ; for which the affinity of the language is a considerable argument , which doth not depend merely upon the credit of marcellinus his life of suîdbert , but upon the probability of the thing . for since several english went thither to preach , and the affinity of the language continues so great still , it is a good argument to prove , either that the frisians came over hither , or that the frisian and saxon languages were then the same . and (u) procopius his testimony is not to be slighted , who places the frisians in britain ; for , although he calls it brettia , it is certain he means great britain , because he places the angles together with the frisians in it ; so that he might as well question the angles as the frisians coming hither ; if procopius his authority signifie any thing . i know that our most learned (w) primate takes this brettia for the island of the batavi , because joh. leidensis saith , that , upon the saxons invasion , some of the britains fled into holland , and there , in the mouth of the rhine , built that famous castle called britton , and subdued the people thereabout . but this seems to be very improbable , for any one that looks into the description of it , in (x) scriverius his antiquitates batavicae , will conclude it to have been a roman work ; which a person of his judgment could not but discern ; but he saith , it was possessed then by the britains : which depends wholly on the credit of this joh. gerbrandus of leyden , who was a late writer , and of no great esteem with him , as appears by many passages in his book : but how came the angles to live here with the frisians and britains ? for that the same gerbrandus is cited , who saith , that when part of hengist 's army was driven out of britain , they built the castle of leyden . and so we have the britains dwelling there , being driven out by the saxons ; and the saxons driven out by the britains ; onely to make this to be the island brettia , in procopius , distinct from great britain . but to proceed . (y) adamus bremensis , who lived near to jutland , saith , that the saxons , who went over into britain , lived near the rhine . (z) engelhusius , lately published out of mss. by maderus , and who lived in the lower saxony , saith , that hengist and horsa went out of westphalia , from a place called enghere , and instead of engerschen , called themselves engelschen . (a) suffridus petrus saith , those people were called angrivarii , and the countrey angria , which was subdued by udolphus , father to hengist and horsa , and prince of frisia ; but their mother's name was suana , daughter to vectgistus , a great man about hamburgh . if he suppose hamburgh then built , he was extremely mistaken ; for it was onely a castle erected on the elb , in the time of charles the great , for preventing the incursion of the sclavi , as appears by the testimonies of (b) eginhardus , and (c) albertus stadensis : after which he built a city , and founded a church there , as adamus bremensis and helmoldus agree ; which city had its name from a neighbour wood , called in the saxon , hamme ; as (d) lambecius saith , in ditmarse there are two woods still called suderhamme and norderhamme . but to return to suffrifridus ; when , according to custome , saith he , a colony of frisians was to be drawn out , hengist and horsa were their captains , and so went for old england , or anglen in jutland , where they were kindly received , by means of vetgistus ; and from thence took the opportunity of coming into britain . from hence he finds fault with crantzius , for making angria in westphalia to be old anglen ; and saith , that bede onely reckons the mother's line , and not the father's . but his occa scarlensis , on whom he chiefly relies , is much such another authour as hunibaldus , or geffrey , or hector's veremundus ; and therefore i shall say no more of him . for , i perceive , scarce any of the northern nations wanted such authours who endeavour'd to supply the defect of their histories by their own inventions . so that it is necessary to lay open the pretended antiquities in order to the setting forth the true . the late bishop of (e) munster , a person of far greater judgment and learning than suffridus petrus , calls his originals of the saxons by no better a title than of canorae nugae , sounding trifles , having no foundation in good authority . the account he gives of the saxons is this , that they at first lived beyond the elb , where they had the same situation with tacitus his angli , whom he makes the farthest of the suevi , and therefore might well be the same people ; that in bede's time they were come on this side the weser , and were settled in westphalia ; and so they made a threefold saxony of the ostphali , angrivarii and westphali , who were called olt-saxons by bede and others : not that these were all originally saxons ; but they bore the same name , being united in one common league ; so that , as all the germans which went into gaul were called franks , so those who prevailed in germany and went into britain , were called saxons . but (f) olaus rudbeck , after all , hath found the seat of the saxons more north than jutland , where , saith he , the name of the saxons could never yet be found ; and where are no mountains to be met with upon which ptolemy places them on the back of the cimbrick chersonese , but in that part of sweden which lies between vermelandia and angermannia he hath found norsaxen , and sodersaxen , and saxehundari , and saxewall , and saxen , &c. and in smaland he hath discovered many places taken from the angles , as anglested hundred , angloridia , anglodorpia , engelbeck , &c. but for our better understanding the condition of that people who were called in by the britains , it will be most material to consider what is said of them by those who descended from them , and lived here not long after their coming . (g) bede , who was himself a saxon , and lived nearest the time of the saxons coming hither , must be presumed to have understood best who they were , and whence they came . and although at the beginning he makes the angles and saxons all one , saying , the angles or saxons , being invited by king vortigern , came hither in three keels or long boats at first ; yet when he adds , that numbers came afterwards , he then distinguisheth them into three distinct sorts of people , viz. the saxons , angles and jutes . the saxons , he saith , came from that place which was then called saxony ; the angles , from the countrey called angulus , which remained desart to this day , and lay between the provinces of the jutes and saxons . and much to the same purpose (h) fabius ethelwerd ; onely he saith , that they came de saxonia , anglia atque giota . saxony , he saith , was then called ealdsexe ; and for anglia , he saith , it lay between the saxons and the gioti , whose chief town in the saxon tongue was called sleswic , and by the danes , haithaby . but , by this account , all these people who came hither to assist the britains , and after conquer'd them , and possessed their land , must come out of that chersonese called jutland , taking it in the largest extent , not onely to the eidore , but from the eidore to the elb. for if the angli came from about sleswic , and lay between the jutes and the old saxons ; then the jutes possessed all that part of the chersonese which is now called the northern iutland : and the southern iutland takes within it all that was possessed by the angli , which reached no farther than between sleswic and flensburgh , which in the modern maps is still called angelen ; and so the countrey lying between the elb and the eidore , comprehending hostein , dithmars and stormar , must be the seat of the old saxons ; which , by (i) adamus bremensis and (k) helmoldus , is called nortalbingia ; and , by (l) eginhartus , saxonia transalbiana ; by (m) albertus stadensis , transalbia ; where the saxons remained in so great numbers that charles the great could not totally subdue them , till after a war of above thirty years , as the foremention'd authours assure us . and (n) eginhartus , whose authority is unquestionable , saith , that charles had no war more tedious or more fierce than that which he had with the saxons ; and in the conclusion of it , he was forced to remove saxons on both sides the river elb , and to disperse them in several parts of the empire . and as to that part of jutland which bede saith was left desolate to his time upon the remove of the angli ; (o) adamus bremensis gives another reason for it , saying , that jutland was the most uncultivated part of all germany , and the least fit for humane habitation , being so barren and unfruitfull , and so obnoxious to pirates from both seas . but since the saxons , angles and jutes , coming into britain , took possession of so great a part of it , as our historians tell us , viz. the jutes , kent , the isle of wight and part of hampshire ; the saxons , sussex , essex , middlesex , the south part of hartfordshire , surrey , the other part of hampshire , berkshire , wiltshire , dorsetshire , somersetshire , devonshire and part of cornwall ; the angles , norfolk , suffolk , cambridge , the midland and northern counties ; it deserves to be considered whether , since there were so few inhabitants then in jutland and so many saxons left behind , there be not far greater probability that these should come from all the maritime coasts from the rhine to jutland , than merely out of such an unpeopled countrey as that was . i do not deny the distinction of people that bede mentions , nor their coming originally out of jutland , or rather through jutland : but , i think , all circumstances considered , it is more probable that the saxons , before that time , were come nearer to the rhine , and so had greater conveniency of removing themselves over in such great numbers into britain , as they did upon vortigern's invitation , and the discontents which soon happen'd between the saxons and the britains . and it is observable , that those who inlarge the bounds of the saxons do take notice of a difference in their situation agreeable to what bede saith ; for (p) reinerus reineccius , a learned german antiquary , saith , the saxons were divided into three sorts , the ostvali , or the eastern saxons , whom the old saxon poet calls osterlingi , whose limits extended , he saith , as far as the slavi , i. e. beyond the river elb ; the westvali , whose bounds , he saith , came very near the rhine ; and between these , he saith , were the angarii , just as bede puts his angli , between the jutes and the saxons . inter praedictos media regione morantur angarii , populus saxonum tertius — if this division of the saxons be allow'd , we have here scope enough for all those people to live in who came over into britain , and number enough to come hither , and yet not to leave the places desolate whence they came . and it is not improbable that the northern nations thrusting one another forwards , for a greater conveniency of living , those saxons who lived about holstein might come into westphaliae , and so be nearest to the rhine ; the angli came into the place where the angrivarii are seated ; and the most remote inhabitants of the chersonese , would then be the osterlings or the eastern saxons . this , upon the whole matter , seems to me the most probable way of reconciling what bede saith with the circumstances of those times , and with the frisians coming in together with the saxons , which he elsewhere expresly affirms , as is already shew'd . as to the time of the saxons coming into britain , in the common printed copies of bede , it is said to have been anno dom. . and so it is in the late edition by chiffletius , out of the old ms. of s. maximin at triers ; but that cannot be true , because martianus is said to be emperour at the same time . but in the chronology , at the end of that edition , it is said to have been anno dom. . to which mr. wheelock's ms. agrees ; and asserius menevensis , in his annals ; which is follow'd by fabius ethelwerd , the old saxon annals , william of malmsbury , henry huntingdon , matth. westminster , and others . florentius wigorniensis , who generally follows marianus scotus , places it in the following year ; valentinianus and avienus , consuls ; but , according to marianus scotus , in the basil edition , they were consuls the year before martianus was emperour , and he makes their coming in to have been when herculanus and asporatius were consuls , anno dom. . but archbishop (q) vsher saith , that appears by the fasti to have been anno dom. . or the second of martianus , by cassiodore . two characters of the time are certain ; viz. that it was after the third consulship of aêtius , and the death of theodosius ; and therefore it is to be wondred mr. (r) camden should so confidently affirm that it was before anno dom. . but there are three things he goes upon which must be consider'd . first , that vortigern 's death was before st. german 's return ; but st. german died anno dom. . and therefore the coming in of the saxons must be some time before . as to vortigern's death , before st. german's return , he produces onely the testimony of nennius , who , in the affairs of vortigern , doth romance so much , that even geffrey of monmouth was ashamed to follow him . but as to the time of st. german's death , there are very convincing arguments to prove camden mistaken . (s) honoratus , in the life of hilary , bishop of arles , mentions st. german as present when chelidonius was deposed by hilary in his visitation ; which (t) sirmondus placeth not without reason , anno dom. . as appears by the epistle of leo and the rescript of valentinian upon chelidonius his appeal , which bears date , anno dom. . but which is yet more considerable , (u) bede saith , that after his second return he went on an embassy to ravenna , and was there kindly received by valentinian and placidia , and there died ; and , not long after , valentinian was killed in the sixth of martianus : and therefore st. german's death could not be so soon as mr. camden supposeth . add to this , that constantius , in his life of st. german saith , that he sate thirty years after st. amator in his see , who died anno dom. . but the sammarthani say , anno dom. . as to the testimony of prosper tiro , who saith , that britain was brought under the power of the saxons , the th . of theodosius , it plainly contradicts gildas ; for this was before the third consulship of aêtius , which was five years after ; and in matters of the british history , gildas certainly deserves the greater credit , supposing it were the true prosper . his last argument is from the calculation , at the end of nennius , on which he lays the greatest weight ; which makes their coming in to be when felix and taurus were consuls , which agrees with anno dom. . but this was near twenty years before the third consulship of aêtius , when the britains were not yet in despair of assistence from the romans ; before which they never sought for the saxons . and i confess the authority of gildas and bede , with the series of the british and roman affairs at that time sway much more with me than such an anonymous calculation . it is a strange mistake of (w) hadrianus valesius , to make vortigern , king of the angles , who were hired to assist the britains ; but the ambiguity of the words in (x) paulus diaconus seem to have been the occasion of it : which had been easily prevented by looking into bede : and so had another mistake in the same place , viz. that onely the angles , and not the saxons , were invited over : for bede saith expresly , that the britains , with their king vortigern , agreed to send for the saxons ; but it is a third mistake , when he saith , that the saxons before this time had a part of the island near to the picts ; which he proves from the words of constantius as to their joining with the picts in one of their battels . but the saxons did frequently make incursions before , and in one of them might join with the other enemies of the britains , which is a very different thing from inhabiting in any part of the island , which we have no evidence that they did , till they were called in by the britains . the saxons having received such an invitation from the britains were unwilling to let slip so fair an opportunity of coming into that land , by the consent of prince and people whose shores they had so long infested . (y) bede saith , there was a particular providence of god in it , to make them the scourges of the peoples wickedness . (z) gildas imputes it to mere sottishness and infatuation . (a) nennius intimates some domestick fear that was the occasion of vortigern 's sending for the saxons , as well as that of their common enemies , i. e. he was very apprehensive of a sudden rising of the roman party yet left in the island , and of ambrosius . but he leaves it wholly in the dark , who this ambrosius was , and what cause vortigern had to be afraid of him . (b) gildas speaks of ambrosius aurelianus , as of a modest man , and as almost the onely person of the roman nation then surviving , whose parents were killed enjoying the purple , and whose posterity was living in gildas his time , but much degenerated from the vertues of their ancestours . this is the onely passage which gives us any light into this matter which is repeated by (c) bede , who more plainly saith , that his parents had royal authority , and were killed . who these parents of his were we are left onely to conjecture . the (d) british history would clear the matter , if it deserved credit , for there we reade , that aurelius ambrosius was one of the younger sons of constantine , king of britain , who was forced to fly from vortigern after the murther of their brother constans by his contrivance . but we know that constantine and his sons , constans and julian , were killed abroad ; and it is not probable the romans would have permitted any one of his sons to have remained here ; or , if they did , this ambrosius must have been of ripe years for government long before this time . for constantine's life was taken away when theodosius was iv. consul , as idatius and marcellinus agree , anno dom. . so that ambrosius could not be very young when vortigern took the government , in whose fourth year , they say , the saxons were called in . but there is another passage in gildas which helps to explain this : for he saith , that after they found themselves deserted by the romans , they set up kings of their own , and soon after put them down again , and made choice of worse in their room ; this setting up of kings he expresses by their being anointed ; whether that custome were then used or not , it is plain , that he supposes that the britains , in that confusion they were in , took upon them , without regard to their duty , to place and displace them . but that he takes anointing in a metaphorical sense appears by what follows , that the anointers were those who destroy'd them . among these in all probability was the father of ambrosius , and the rather because , it is said , he was of roman descent : for the britains thought none then able to defend them that had not a roman spirit in him . at this time the britains were left to their full liberty by the roman empire , which , as (e) bede reckons , had the dominion here for years ; and then there was no line remaining to succeed in the government , nor so much as to determine their choice , which made them so easily to make and unmake their kings , who lost their purple and their lives together . this must needs breed infinite confusions among them ; and every one who came to be king lived in perpetual fear of being served as others had been before him ; and the natural consequence of this jealousie of their own subjects was , looking out for assistence from abroad , which i doubt not was one great reason of vortigern's sending for the saxons , hoping to secure himself by their means against his own people : although it proved at last the ruine both of himself and his people . but this jealousie could not but increase upon them , while there was a person descended from a former king , and of roman parentage in being ; so that nennius seems to have hit upon one of the main reasons which sway'd vortigern to send for the saxons . (f) some have gon about to defend vortigern so far as to say , that he took the most prudent course he could for the benefit and security of his subjects , by placing the saxons upon the picts wall , and upon the kentish shores , which were thought fit to be secured by the romans . but , against whom ? was it not against these very saxons ? and is it the best way to secure the flock , to set the wolves to watch them ? if they had the command of those shores , could not they let in what numbers they pleased of their own people to strengthen themselves against the britains ? and , was this for the peoples security ? what success had there been in that age , in letting in the barbarous nations upon the several parts of the roman empire ? and , what could be expected in such a condition as the britains were in , otherwise than what did happen when a fierce , ungovernable , military people were called in to defend a nation so long kept under , and wholly almost unacquainted with the exercise of brutish valour , and unexperienced in the arts of war ? especially when the air , situation , fruitfulness and all sorts of conveniencies were so much above those of the countrey which they came from ? so that gildas seems to have a great deal of reason , when he attributes this act of vortigern's , with a respect to the nation , to mere sottishness and infatuation . (g) witikindus tells a formal story of a speech made by the british ambassadours to the saxons , wherein they magnifie the saxons courage , and lament their own miseries , and in short tell them , if they would come and help them , their land and themselves would be at their service , for they knew none more worthy to command them , since the romans had left them . but neither bede nor ethelwerd , although both saxons , mention the least promise of submission ; and it is apparent by their quarrel with the britains afterwards , that they came as mercenary souldiers , upon promise of pay. for (h) gildas saith , the first pretence of quarrelling was for greater allowance , which he calls their epimenia , and bede , annonae : which shews upon what terms they came . and witikindus himself makes no other pretence for their rising against the britains , but that the countrey pleased them , and they found they were able to subdue the inhabitants . for after hengist and his company had tasted the sweetness of it , they never left wheedling that weak and vitious king ( as all describe him ) with fair promises , and necessity of more succours to secure himself and to defend his countrey , till they had by degrees got over strength enough to bid defiance to the britains . at first they seem'd very zealous and hearty against their common enemies , and did great service in beating the picts and scots ; insomuch that (i) buchanan confesses , they were driven beyond adrian 's wall ; and some think their king eugenius was then killed . (k) fordon saith , they went into albany , and brought away great booty from thence ; and confesses , that he found in a certain history , that he was killed south of humber , by the britains and the english. and it is easie to imagine how insolent such a barbarous people would grow upon their success , when they knew the britains durst not oppose them . (l) bede saith , that they entred into a secret league with the picts and the scots after they had beaten them , and then took occasion to quarrell with the britains ; onely they still endeavour'd to keep vortigern firm to them . to this purpose (m) nennius tells the story of hengist's fair daughter rovena , and how vortigern was insnared by her , to the great dissatisfaction of the britains . hector boethius saith , that vodinus , bishop of london , was killed by hengist , for reproving vortigern for that marriage ; but we must not be too strict upon hector to put him to produce his vouchers . and the (n) british history adds , that hengist , being a subtile man , insinuated still into vortigern , that his own people did not love him , and that they would depose him , and set up aurelius ambrosius : and by such arts they widen'd the distance between him and his people , when they designed nothing less than the destruction of both . it is certain , by what gildas and bede have left , that these heats soon brake out into open flames , to the ruine and desolation of the countrey : but how the war began , and by what means it was first managed on the british side is not so clear . but (o) nennius saith , that when vortigern 's wickedness grew so great as to marry his own daughter , he was condemned in solemn council of the british nation both clergy and laity , and upon the advice of his nobles , he withdrew himself from affairs to a private castle . but the (p) british history makes it worse , viz. that the britains forsook him , and set up his son vortimer , who behaved himself with great courage and resolution against the saxons ; and then reckons up four battels , which he fought with them ; the first upon the derwent , the second at episford , or rather alesford , the third upon the sea-shore , when he drove them into their ships , and so home ; but the fourth is not mention'd ; after which geffrey relates vortimer's being poison'd by his mother-in-law , and the restoring of vortigern , and his calling for the saxons back again . (q) nennius speaks of vortimer's fighting with hengist and horsus , and adds his success to have been so great , as to have driven them into the isle of thanet , and that there he besieged , and beat , and terrified them to that degree , that they sent into germany for fresh succours ; by which they were enabled to manage the war with various success against the britains . and then reckons up the three battels , just as geffrey doth ; onely the last , he saith , was upon the sea-shore , juxta lapidem tituli ; a little after which , he saith , that vortimer died without any mention of poison ; but , he saith , before his death he gave command to have his body buried on the sea-shore , where the saxons fled ; which was neglected , and to which nennius imputes their return , after which they could never be driven out . because , as he saith , it was the divine pleasure more than their own valour which made them settle here . and it is he that orders and rules the nations of the earth ; and who can resist his will ? it is plain by all this , that nennius consulted the honour of the british nation as much as it was possible , and nowhere useth that freedom which gildas doth , in setting forth the great sins among them which provoked god to punish them in so severe a manner . the place where vortimer desired to be buried is called by nennius , lapis tituli ; from whence (r) camden and archbishop (s) vsher conceive it to be stonar in the isle of thanet , near richborrow ; but nennius saith onely , it was upon the shore of the french sea ; from whence mr. (t) somner rather concludes it to be folkstone in kent , because of its lofty situation , whereas stonar lies in a low and flat level , apt to inundations ; but then nennius must have mistaken lapis tituli , for lapis populi ; and , i dare say , nennius was guilty of greater mistakes than that . but , he farther observes , that in the ancient records , the name is not stonar , but estonar , which signifies the eastern border , shore or coast. (u) matthew of westminster gives this account of these proceedings : that the british nobility , forsaking vortigern , set up vortimer , who , with their assistence , pursued the saxons to derwent , and there killed many of them . which seems to have been darent in kent ; thence dartford , as (w) camden observes , is the same with darenford . but he makes vortigern to have fled away with the saxon army , and to have given them all the assistence he could : and then , saith he , vortimer began to restore the britains possessions to them , and to rebuild their churches , and to shew kindness to the churchmen . the next year , he saith , the saxons fought again with the britains at ailesford ; and after a sharp fight the saxons fled , and great multitudes of them were slain ; not long after vortimer , with his brothers catigern and pascentius , and the whole nation of the britains made war with the saxons , and in battel catigern was killed by horsus , and horsus by vortimer , upon which the saxon army fled . the next year , he saith , hengist fought three battels with vortimer , and at last he was forced to go back into germany , and four years after , vortimer , saith he , was poison'd , anno dom. . and buried in london , and then vortigern recalled the saxons . (x) william of malmsbury saith , that the britains and saxons agreed for seven years after their landing , and then vortimer , finding their deceit , incensed his father and the britains against them , and so for twenty years there was continual war and light skirmishes , and four pitched battels . in the first he makes their fortune equal , horsa being killed on one side , and catigis on the other . in the rest , the saxons being always superiour , and vortimer dead , a peace was made ; and so the britains affairs went ill , till ambrosius recover'd them . (y) henry of huntingdon relates this story after a different manner : he tells us , that vortigern , after the marriage of hengist's daughter was so hated , that he withdrew to the mountains and woods , and that he and his castle were consumed together . after which ambrosius aurelianus , with vortigern's two sons , vortimer and catiger , fought the saxons ; and he makes the first battel at ailestreu or elstree , the next after vortimer's death at creganford or crayford , in which , he saith , the britains were quite beaten out of kent , and from thence he begins the saxons kingdom of kent ; the next , he saith , was at wippedsflede , which was so terrible on both sides , that from thence he saith , that the saxons and britains did not disturb each other for a great while , they remaining within kent , and the britains quarrelling among themselves . (z) florentius wigorniensis therein differs from the rest , that he makes the battel at aegelsthrep to have been between vortigern and hengist ; but , he saith , after the battel at creccanford , the britains fled to london , and left kent to the saxons : wherein he follows the saxon annals ; as he doth in the account of the two other battels ; that at wippedsfleot , and that which he calls the great victory over the britains by hengist and esca his son ; which he places anno dom. . when he saith , the britains fled from the saxons as from fire . (a) fabius ethelwerd agrees with the saxon annals and florentius in these particulars ; and so doth asserius in his mss. annals , as to vortigern's fighting with hengist . wherein they very much differ from the british traditions ; but after the translation of the british history by geffrey , the monkish historians generally follow that , as to the success of these battels , and as to the treachery used towards vortigern by hengist , upon salisbury plain , near ambresbury ; where it is said by geffrey , that the saxons killed of the british nobility , under a pretence of a treaty of peace ; (b) nennius saith but ; and that vortigern was then taken , and was forced to give estsex , suthsex and middlesex for his redemption . this story passes for current among the monks and our late collectours of english history : and that which seems to add most weight to it is , that william of malmsbury relates it , but he reports it much as he found it in nennius , onely inlarging on the drinking part , that went before the massacre . but when i find the same story in effect in (c) witikindus , between the saxons and the thuringers , and the very same word given nem et eovr seaxes , i am apt to think one was borrowed from the other . but i cannot but take notice of the disingenuity of (d) verstegan , who lays this to the charge of the thuringers , whereas witikindus not onely saith , the saxons did it , but adds , that the saxons struck terrour into their neighbours by it , and saith , they were thought to have their name from it , as verstegan himself thinks ; which were ridiculous , unless the seaxes belong'd to the saxons . all the certainty we have as to the matter of the proceedings between the britains and saxons is , what (e) gildas relates , which is very tragical , viz. that all the cities and churches were burnt to the ground , from the east to the western ocean ; the inhabitants destroyed by the sword or buried in the ruines of houses and altars which were defiled with the bloud of the slain ; in which horrible devastation , the rulers of the church and the priests suffered together with the common people . so that he applies to this desolation the words of the psalmist , they have cast fire into thy sanctuary , they have defiled by casting down the dwelling place of thy name to the ground . and , o god , the heathen are come into thine inheritance , thy holy temple have they defiled , &c. and (f) bede saith , a fire was kindled by the hands of the heathens , which executed vengeance on god's people for their sins , not unlike that of the chaldeans which burnt jerusalemto the ground : so here , saith he , the wicked conquerour prevailing , or rather the just judge so disposing , there seem'd to be one continued flame from one sea to another ; all publick and private buildings demolished , the priests bloud spilt upon the altars , the prelates and people destroy'd together by fire and sword , and no man durst to give them burial . many of those that escaped at present , as (g) gildas saith , had their throats cut , and were thrown on heaps in the mountains , or delivered themselves up to slavery , to avoid being famished , and thought it a favour to be presently dispatched , and others hid themselves among mountains and rocks and woods to escape the fury of their enemies , where they lived in continual fear ; and others went over into foreign parts : which was the foundation of the aremorican colony of britains ; as will appear afterwards . but that which prevented a total destruction of the britains now was , that it seems both by (h) gildas and (i) bede , the saxons having burnt so many cities and towns , and driven the remainder of the inhabitants into inaccessible places , did go home for some time , and in that interval , the dispersed britains gathered together , and after most earnest supplications to god , that they might not be utterly destroyed , they made choice of ambrosius aurelianus , as their king ; and , under his conduct , god was pleased to give them success : and , from that time , saith gildas , now one party prevailed , and then another ( whereby god made a farther tryal of the britains , whether they would love him or not ) to the battel on badon hill , wherein the saxons suffer'd so great a loss ; which was forty four years after their first coming hither , as appears more plainly by bede . but gildas adds , even at this time their cities were far from being inhabited as formerly ; and when their enemies gave them respite , they desperately quarrell'd among themselves . so that we have here a conjunction of so much severity and patience , such fears and hopes , and yet such defeating of these hopes , by their own follies and divisions , as commonly fore-run a churches destruction and a peoples ruine . this is the best and truest account of the british affairs from the saxons coming till the government of ambrosius , by which we are to judge of the probability of nennius his traditions . as to the particular conduct of the british affairs under ambrosius , we have little more light than what traditions and conjectures give us . however , it may not be amiss to lay together what we can find about them . (k) nennius saith little more of him , than that vortigern was afraid of him : and afterwards he confounds him with merlin , when he tells vortigern , after the story of his being without a father , that he concealed his father's name out of fear , but that his father was one of the roman consuls ; and so vortigern gave him the command of the western parts of britain . but (l) geffrey gives a more ample account of him , not onely that he was one of constantine's sons ; but that he , understanding the condition of the britains , came over from aremorica with his brother vther pendragon and considerable forces , and after his revenge upon vortigern , burning him in his castle , he makes the saxons to retire beyond humber , through the terrour of his name ; whither aurelius pursued them , and overcame hengist in a set battel , who fled to caer conan or conisburgh , where they fought again , and hengist was taken by eldol , duke of gloucester , and beheaded by him , according to the advice of eldad , then bishop of gloucester . (m) matthew westminster transcribes these passages out of geffrey , and puts them to such years as he fansied ; but it is observable that he makes aurelius ambrosius to have fought the battel at wippeds fleet with hengist and his son aesc , years before this ; which according to him was seven years after his coming into britain : so that even matthew westminster durst not wholly rely on geffrey's relation . but , as to the death of hengist , florentius saith , he died after he had reigned in kent thirty four years , and aesca succeeded him , anno dom. . the saxon annals take no notice of hengist's death , but place aesc's reign anno dom. . (n) henry of huntingdon saith , that hengist died the fortieth year after his coming into britain , the th . saith william of malmsbury . but neither of them mentions any violent death by the hands of his enemies , and that after a victory by the britains under aurelius ambrosius ; which are such circumstances they could not easily have omitted , if they had then heard of them . but if they had heard of them , and yet left them out , it is a shrewd sign , they gave no credit to them . we are then to consider , that geffrey of monmouth , according to leland , flourished in the time of h. i. of king stephen say bale and pits ; but leland observes , that he dedicated his translation of merlin to alexander bishop of lincoln , the same that was henry of huntingdon 's patron : and william of malmsbury dedicates his history to the same robert of gloucester , son to henry i. to whom geffrey dedicates his translation of the british history , who died of king stephen . so that in all probability geffrey's book was seen by both these historians , and since they do not follow him where they have occasion to mention the same matters , they plainly discover they preferr'd nennius before him , whom both of them follow ; but it appears by h. huntingdon he then passed under the name of gildas . but these two historians thought it best for them to decline taking any publick notice of geffrey's history , it being so great a novelty then , and probably enough in some esteem with robert of gloucester , whose father , as (o) giraldus cambrensis saith , had lately subdued the britains in wales ; and such a history seemed to add to his father's glory . but after robert's death , william of newborough very frankly delivers his opinion of it , charging the original with falshood , and the translatour with insincerity . geffrey , in the conclusion of his history , mentions william of malmsbury and h. of huntingdon , as then writing the english history ; but he bids them not to meddle with the british kings , since they had not the british ms. which walter of oxford brought out of britany . but they do not forbear to make use of nennius ; and huntingdon transcribes several things out of him ; but they do not inlarge or alter or adorn their history in one point from the british ms. although in all likelyhood set forth before their death . as to what he next adds , that after his victory over the saxons , aurelius ambrosius called the princes and great men together at york , and gave order for repairing the churches which the saxons destroyed , there is far greater probability in it . for after the battel at wippedsfleet , which was seventeen years after the saxons coming ; h. huntingdon saith , things remained quiet for a good while between the britains and saxons ; and in that time it is reasonable to presume that ambrosius and the nobles and people did their endeavour towards the recovering the honour of their churches , as well as of the kingdom . and after the care he took in other places , saith geffrey , he marched to london , which had suffered as well as other cities ; and having called the dispersed citizens together , he went about the repairing of it ; all his design being the restoring the church and kingdom . from thence he went to winchester and to salisbury . and in the passage thither geffrey launches out to purpose in his history of stonehenge , translated , saith he , by merlin out of ireland , to make a monument for the british nobles , slain there by hengist 's treachery : which is such an extravagancy that it is to be wondred any should follow him in it , and yet matt. (p) westminster transcribes the main of it ; and (q) walter coventry sets it down for authentick history ; but he adds two circumstances which make it seem probable that stonehenge had some relation to ambrosius , viz. that here ambrosius was crowned , and was not long after buried ; from whom (r) polydore virgil makes it the monument of ambrosius ; and john of tinmouth in the life of dubricius calls it mons ambrosii : and the name of ambresbury near it doth much confirm the probability , that it had rather a respect to ambrosius , than either to the romans or the danes . but i cannot now insist on this . (s) matthew westminster confirms geffrey's relation concerning the great zeal of ambrosius in repairing the british churches every where , and setting up divine worship in them , and giving great incouragement to the clergy to perform all divine offices , and particularly to pray for the prosperity of the church and kingdom . but geffrey adds yet farther concerning him , that in a solemn council of the britains he appointed two metropolitans for the two vacant sees at that time , viz. sampson one of eminent piety for york , and dubricius for caer-leon . this saith matt. westminster was done an. dom. . and he makes them both to live and flourish an. dom. . but he saith , that sampson was afterwards driven over to aremorica , and there was archbishop of dole among the britains . for anno dom. . he saith , another sampson succeeded in that see , the former who came out of great britain to the less . sigebert of the old edition , anno dom. . speaks of sampson then archbishop of dole , kinsman to maglorius , who came from the britain beyond the sea to that on this side . this second sampson's life is extant in the bibliotheca floriacensis , where he is said to have been born in britain , and the scholar of iltutus , and consecrated by dubricius . but (t) giraldus cambrensis saith , the pall was carried over from wales to dole , in the time of another sampson , who was the th . from st. david , and went over because of the plague which discoloured people like the iaundice , and therefore called flava pestis : which is transcribed by (u) roger hoveden . but here are several mistakes in this account . for there was no such thing as a pall then known or used in the western church ; and if this sampson went over on the occasion of that plague , there could not be . between st. david and him : for in the life of st. teliaus , st. david's sister's son , that plague is described , and then sampson is said to be archbishop of dole , and to have received teliaus and his company with great joy , having been school-fellows under dubricius , and sampson being consecrated by him . but still we have two sampsons archbishops of dole , and in the time of the great controversie about that archbishoprick , ( of which afterwards ) it was a question from which the title was derived . and innocent iii. as giraldus relates , said it was from this sampson archbishop of york : but the sammarthani onely mention him that came from st. davids , when maglorius succeeded among the aremorican britains ; but we are not yet come to them . it is observed by h. of (w) huntingdon , that after the britains had a little respite from their enemies , they fell into civil dissensions among themselves , which is very agreeable to what gildas had said . of this the (x) british history gives no improbable account , when it relates that one of vortigern's sons called pascentius , raised a rebellion in the north against ambrosius among the britains , who were overcome by him , and put to flight ; but afterwards he hired a saxon to poison ambrosius at winchester . this saith matthew westminster happen'd anno dom. . but we are not to pass over what he affirms of him , anno dom. . viz. that he commanded in the battel at mecredsburn against aella and his sons , in which they were so much worsted as to send home for supplies , as he saith . this aella and his sons cymen , plenting and cissa came into britain , anno dom. . and landed at a place from his eldest son called cymenshore , on the coasts of sussex . (y) camden saith it hath lost its name ; but he proves from a charter of cedwalla to the church of selsey it must be near wittering . here aella and his army fought the britains at his first landing , and forced them to retire to andredeswald , say the saxon annals , and matt. westminster , florentius and huntingdon . the saxon annals and huntingdon call it andredesleage : by that no question is meant the vast wood which began in kent , and ran through sussex into hampshire , called by the britains coid andred , by the saxons andred , and andreswald ; from whence as mr. somner observes , that part of kent where the wood stood is still called the weald ; and (z) lambard observes , that no monuments of antiquity are to be met with in the weald either of kent or sussex . the saxons after this battel continued to inhabit on the shore , till at last the britains finding them to incroach farther , resolved to fight them at a place called mecredsburn . and a different account is given of the success of this battel : the saxon annals and ethelwerd onely mention it , boasting of no victory ; florentius makes it a clear victory on the saxon side : matt. westminster saith aella quitted the field , but confesseth the britains had great loss : h. of huntingdon saith , it was a drawn battel , both armies having sustained great damage and avoiding each other . after this aella and cissa , say the saxon annals , besieged andredescester and killed all the inhabitants , leaving not one britain alive ; and so florentius and matt. westminster relate it . but he (a) saith , that the britains came out of the wood , and galled the saxons so much , that they were forced to divide their army ; and the inhabitants perished by famine as well as by the sword : and he observes that the saxons utterly demolished the city , and the place where it stood was in his time shewed to travellers . therefore the question among our antiquaries , which was the anderida of the ancients , newenden or hastings or pemsey is quite out of doors , unless one of these be proved to be built in the place of anderida since matt. westminster's days ; which were towards the end of edw. . those words (b) camden applies onely to h. of huntingdon , and he saith it was new built in edw. . his time , and therefore called newenden ; but they are likewise matt. westminster 's who lived after that time , and therefore it cannot be newenden if it were rebuilt in the time of edw. . for he saith , the desolate place was shewed in his time ; unless one transcribed the other , without any regard to the difference of their own times . after ambrosius his death , according to the (c) british history , his brother vther pendragon succeeded , who routed the saxons in the north , relieved york besieged by them , took the sons of hengist prisoners , marched to london , and there called a parliament , and was solemnly crowned , and fell out with goalois duke of cornwall , about his wife igerna , and under his shape had king arthur by her ; but her husband was killed at the siege of his castle . after which it is said , that he overcame the saxons at verulam , where he was after poisoned by their means , and his son arthur succeeded . this is the summ of what is there more at large related ; but taking it all together , it is a very blind and partial account of the proceedings between the britains and saxons of that time . for even matt. westminster , anno dom. takes notice of cerdic and kenric his son , landing with new forces at a place called from him cerdicshore , ( near yarmouth saith (d) camden where the name cerdicsand still remains ) and fought the britains at their first landing , till they were forced to withdraw and leave room for them , who after went into the western parts , and laid the foundation of the kingdom of the west saxons . to the same purpose florentius , ethelwerd and huntingdon . seven years after him came port and his two sons bleda and magla , and arrived at portsmouth , which had its name from him , as the same authours inform us from the saxon annals . now how comes geffrey to think of none of these , but onely of hengist's two sons in the north ? besides , he lets slip one of the greatest battels that was fought between cerdic and nathanleod , and pretends to give no account at all of it . this the saxon annals , florentius , ethelwerd and matt. westminster all place anno dom. . but huntingdon the sixtieth year after the first coming of the saxons . this nazaleod , as he calls him , was the greatest king of the britains , one of great fame and pride , from whom the countrey about charford did take its name . at this place the whole forces of the britains were gathered together , and cerdic procured assistence from aesc of kent , from aella of sussex , from port and his sons ; so that here was a pitched battel of the strength of both sides ; and nazaleod behaved himself with so much courage , that he drove cerdic out of the field , and pursued him ; which his son who commanded the other wing perceiving , followed him close and cut him off , and of his men who fled upon the death of their king. and from this memorable battel , the place was called cerdicsford , and since charford , upon the aven between salisbury and ringwood . but who was this mighty king of the britains , who lost his life in this battel ? (e) mr. camden professes he cannot ghess ; unless it were aurelius ambrosius , whose name he observes the saxon annalists never mention , nor the battels wherein they were worsted . and the british history is even with them for that , which takes no notice of this great fight , wherein their king was slain . matt. westminster will not have him to be king , but onely to be general under vther , who was then sick , which contradicts ethelwerd , and huntingdon , and florentius , who affirm him to have been then king , and as huntingdon saith rex maximus britannorum ; which seems to imply , that there were more kings then among the britains , as there were among the saxons ; and that one was the chief as in the heptarchy . archbishop (f) vsher thinks this king was the same whom the british history calls vther , and that nathanleod was his true name , and vther was a nick-name to denote his fierceness , as the annotatour on (g) nennius calls arthur mab vter in the british tongue for the same reason : and so arthurus in latine from the british arth , which signifies a bear. this is an ingenious conjecture : but we are not so sure there ever was such a king as vther , as we are from gildas , that there was such a one as ambrosius ; but gildas saith , that some of the race of ambrosius were living in his time ; therefore he died not without issue , as the british history supposes , and this might probably be his son , who was slain in this battel . but what then is to be said to king arthur , who was son to vther , and succeeded him , whose mighty feats are so amply related by the british history ? i think both sorts are to blame about him , i mean those who tell incredible tales of him , such as are utterly inconsistent with the circumstances of the british affairs at that time ; and those who deny there was any such person , or of any considerable power among the britains . william of malmsbury takes notice of the british fables about him , ( and if i mistake not makes a severe reflexion upon geffrey's history without naming it , when he saith , hic est arthurus de quo britonum nugae bodiéque delirant ) but he wishes a true account had been given of him , for he was the support of his countrey , for a long time , who sharpned the broken spirits of the britains , and made them warlike . but after all , he will not allow him to have been monarch in britain , but onely the general under ambrosius . and in all this william keeps close to nennius ; for nennius speaking of the wars between the british kings and the saxons , saith of arthur , ipse dux erat bellorum ; although he exceeds the bounds of truth in the next words , & in omnibus bellis victor extitit , he came off always conquerour . if this had been true , the saxons could never have kept footing in england . i will allow the saxon annals to be partial in not recounting their losses ; and on the other side it is unreasonable to suppose , that the saxons should be always beaten , and yet always get ground even in arthur's days . for after the great battel wherein nathanleod was killed , ( the onely british king mentioned in the saxon annals ) cerdic's two nephews , stuff and witgar , landed upon cerdicshore , which (h) matt. westminster here places on the western coasts ( and not on the eastern as camden doth , which seems more probable , because they came with supplies to cerdic their uncle ) but all agree , that as they fought upon their landing , they had the better of the britains ; huntingdon saith , it was such a victory as laid open the countrey to them ; the force of the britains being scattered , god having cast them off . where was arthur at this time ? again , five years after saith ethelwerd , cerdic and cenric , came the second time to cerdicsford , and there fought the britains ; the saxons annals say nothing of the victory , but florentius gives it to the saxons , and so doth huntingdon , who saith , the britains had a terrible blow that day . and as an evidence of the saxons conquest , ethelwerd saith , that year cerdic began the kingdom of the west saxons : from that very day saith huntingdon , anno dom. . here matt. westminster is so hard put to it , that taking in king arthur at anno dom. . he is forced to leave out this battel , and to tell geffrey's story of king arthur's beating the saxons in the north about york and lincoln , and driving them as far as the caledonian wood , and takes no notice of kerdic's setting up a kingdom in the west : but the following year , anno dom. . he brings colgrin , badulph and cheldric to totnes with new forces , with which they besieged bath ; and then arthur with his caliborn did incredible execution , for he saith , he killed with his own hands , and so totally routed the saxons ; and not a word of kerdic or kenric , whereas anno dom. . he remembers them again , and tells what a mighty army they had in the isle of wight , which h. huntingdon calls witland , and what slaughter they made at witgaresburgh , which had its name from witgar , one of kerdic's nephews , to whom he gave the isle of wight , and was buried at witgar saith huntingdon . but before this there was another battel between kerdic and the britains at cerdics leage ; which huntingdon makes the same with cerdicsford , in which there was great slaughter on both sides , and in that time , he saith , many saxons came in out of germany into eastangle and mercia , but they were not yet formed into kingdoms ; however innumerable battels were fought in many places by persons whose names are not recorded . and now huntingdon mentions arthur , as a most valiant general on the british side , who commanded in twelve battels , in all which he had the better ; and so reckons them up in order just as (i) nennius had done , whom he transcribes , and when he hath set down the places of the twelve battels he confesses they were then unknown , but he adds , that there was almost perpetual fighting , in which sometimes one side had the better and sometimes the other ; but still the saxons poured in greater numbers upon them : and (k) nennius saith , they increased here without intermission , and fetched new kings out of germany to rule over them . and then sets down the foundation of the northern saxon kingdom under ida , who govern'd all beyond humber twelve years , which was branched into two , deira and bernicia . this kingdom began , saith huntingdon , in the thirteenth year of the reign of kenric ( who succeeded kerdic ) anno dom. . and ida desce●ded from woden was the first king. kenric in his eighteenth year , saith the same authour , fought against the britains , who came with a powerfull army to salisbury , where he dispersed them and made them fly . but this is supposed to have hapned after arthur's death , which is placed by matt. westminster and others anno dom. . we must therefore look back to judge of arthur's prowess . we have already seen several saxon kingdoms established , that of kent , of south-saxons , of west-saxons and saxons in other parts , not yet gather'd into kingdoms ; and besides these , before kendic had gained the isle of wight , h. huntingdon saith , the kingdom of east saxons was founded by erkinwin , whom slede succeeded , who married the daughter of ermenerick , king of kent , sister of ethelbert , and mother to sibert the first christian king there . now , if arthur were a king so powerfull , so irresistible as the british history makes him , how came all these kingdoms to grow up under him ? why did he not send the saxons all out of britain ? nay , how came cerdic and kenric to grow so strong in the western parts as they did ? cerdic , saith (l) william of malmsbury , came hither eight years after the death of hengist , anno dom. . he was here years before he set up his kingdom , and lived in it years . this was in the midst of arthur's fame and greatness . if it were such as geffrey describes ; would he have suffred such a terrour to the britains to have been so near him ? (m) ranulphus higden saith , that arthur was so tired out with fighting cerdic ( so weary of overcoming ) that years after his coming he yielded part of the west to him : and to the same purpose (n) rudburn speaks . what is the meaning of all this ? the plain truth is , they follow'd geffrey as far as they could , but they found at last they must give away kerdic's kingdom to him ; and so they had better make it a free act of king arthur . let us now compare with this , the account the british history gives of him : which is this in short . (o) after the death of vther pendragon the british nobility met at silcester , where the● desired dubricius to consecrate arthur● , for the saxons had conquer'd from humber to cathnes . ( it seems all was clear on this side humber ) . and so he was no sooner crown'd but away he marches for york , ( leaving the saxons here in quiet possession ) where childeric came with ships to assist the two brothers colgrin and baldulph ( whose names the saxon annals conceal . ) upon this dreadfull conjunction arthur repairs to london , and calls a parliament : and they send over to hoel king of little-britain , his nephew , and who brings to his assistence at southampton , ( notwithstanding port and his sons were so near ) then away he marches for lincoln , and there kills saxons , and pursued the rest into scotland : and there dismissed them home upon promise of tribute ; but they perfidiously returned to totnes , and so marched to besiege bath : where after he had done the execution matt. westminster related , the saxons get upon the hill , which arthur by the help of his caliburn recover'd , killed the two brothers , and made childeric fly , whom cador pursued to the isle of thanet , ( although the son of hengist had all kent as his kingdom . ) after this he drives gillomarus and his irish home ; and determined to root out the scots and picts , but upon great submission he spared them . this being done he returns to york , where he rebuilds the churches , and settles pyramus archbishop in the place of samson , and restores the british nobility . next summer he goes for ireland , and having subdued that , he sails for island , ( not then inhabited saith (p) arngrimus ionas a learned native there ) but upon notice of his coming , the kings of seland and the orcades yielded themselves . then he returns home and settles the nation in a firm peace for twelve years ( although the saxons were every where about them . ) after which time , his name was dreaded abroad , and away he sails for norway , and there conquer'd riculfus and the whole countrey : from thence to gaul , where he chopt in pieces the head of flollos the governour in single combat , and disposed the several provinces 〈◊〉 his servants , and returning home resolved to keep a solemn court at caer-leon , ( this was well thought upon , for we reade of no saxons thereabouts ) where besides several kings the three metropolitans met , of london , york and caerleon , besides all his nobility . but to pass over the great solemnities there , the emperour lucius ( not to be found elsewhere ) sends to demand tribute on the account of julius caesar's conquest , upon which he makes great preparations to conquer rome ; and leaves britain to mordred his nephew , who rebelled against him , and forced him to return home , when , after he had conquered lucius , he was marching for rome : and here mordred had associated saxons , scots and picts , all against arthur ; but upon his coming the other fled to winchester , from thence to cornwall , where near the river camblan he waited for arthur's coming , the issue of the battel was , mordred was killed , and arthur mortally wounded , who was carried into the island of avalon , and there died and was buried . this is the british legend of king arthur , which hath raised the laughter of some , and the indignation of others . william of newburgh was the first who openly and in plain terms charged it with falsity and inconsistency ; but against some parts of it he makes trifling objections ; as about the three archbishops , denying that the britains had any archbishops , because the first pall was given to augustine the monk. but this was a piece of monkish ignorance in him , for there were metropolitans before , and without palls from rome ; and archbishops or metropolitans did assume the use of palls to themselves , without asking the pope's leave ; and when he saith archbishops came so late into the western churches , it is true the use of the word did , but the jurisdiction over provinces was long before , as i have already shew'd . upon the reviving of learning some were so offended at this ridiculous legend , that they questioned whether ever there were such a person as arthur , against whom leland undertook the defence of king arthur . but some of his authours will not be allow'd to bear witness in this cause , being partial followers of geffrey ; such as alfred of beverly , gray the authour of scalae-chronicon , joh. burgensis , joh. ross , &c. others do not speak home to the point , such are the testimonies of nennius , malmsbury , huntingdon , which make him onely general of the british forces : others are too modern , as trithemius , volaterranus , philippus bergomas , nauclerus , hector boethius , pontius virunnius , &c. others overthrow the main part of it , as to arthur 's sovereign dominion in britain , as the chronica divionensis , which saith , that after several combats cerdic had the possession of the west saxon kingdom by arthur 's consent : and as parts of this kingdom he reckons seven whole provinces from surry to cornwall . but the british history takes no notice of cerdic , but supposes all under arthur's command , and his nephew mordred's in his absence . if cerdic had the westsaxon kingdom , then how comes no notice of him in the battel at camblan ? how came the fight within his territories ? again , the authour of the life of gildas cited by him , saith , that one meluas had stollen his wife guenhere , and defiled her , and that arthur a long time besieged him in the marshes near glassenbury . is this agreeable to the mighty power of king arthur , to have his queen detained by force so long by such an inconsiderable person as meluas ? especially if it were as caradoc of lancarvan there saith , she was restored at last , more by the intreaty of gildas than out of respect to arthur 's authority . as to arthur's seal which he lays so much weight upon , it certainly belonged to the diploma he gave to the vniversity of cambridge , in his time , mentioned by leland ; and the church of westminster , if they have it still , ought to restore it . but after all leland hath sufficiently proved , that there was such a person as king arthur from the cair-arture in wales , two mountains so called ; and arthur's gate in mongomery ; and the abundant testimony he brings about his coffin in lead found in glassenbury , either in henry the second's time , or at least in the beginning of richard the first , with an inscription set down often by him , and more exactly by (r) camden . where the letters appear very rude , and the inscription very plain , and therefore more likely to be true . hic iacet sepvltvs inclitvs rex artvrivs in insvla avalonia . where are all the noble titles given him in the british history and contained in the inscription about his seal ? patricivs artvrivs britanniae , galliae , germaniae , daciae , imperator . so much greater a man was arthur living , when he used this seal , than dead , when so mean an inscription was put upon the lower part of his leaden coffin ! how soon were all his great titles forgotten ! but since leland , sir john (s) price hath undertaken to vindicate the story of king arthur : and the first argument he uses is from the inscription on his coffin , and the antiquity of the letters ; but the modesty of the inscription is a better argument to me , for if the monks designed a cheat in heu . ii. his time , and laid this coffin there on purpose to deceive , they might counterfeit such letters , but they could never have held from speaking more glorious things of so great a heroe . then he produced the testimonies of nennius , malmsbury and huntingdon , and proves that these two could not take out of geffrey ; that they did not i grant , but the other is not proved . the verses of thaliessin ( who he saith lived in the time of maglocunus mentioned by gildas ) do prove that arthur commanded in the battel at badon hill , which i see no reason to question ; but polydore virgil will have aurelius ambrosius to doe it , which i see no reason to believe . besides , he quotes old british chronicles , which reckon from vortigern to the battel on badon hill , wherein arthur beat the saxons , years ; from that battel to the battel at camblan wherein arthur was killed , years and he finds the name of arthur in many ancient british poems ; and in the old register of landaff : but that onely proves , there was one arthur , whose son 's name was noe ; but what is more material , he finds some passages agreeing with geffrey in the old chronicles of st. davids and caer-mardin , as to his fighting against lucius hiberus in burgundy , and the battel at camblan ; but it doth not appear , that these chronicles were before geffrey's time . as to king arthur 's crown and seal , they may go together . but as to gildas his silence , from whence some would prove that there was no such person , he answers from giraldus , that arthur having killed his brother hoel , he purposely left him out , which is no clear answer ; for if gildas did this in revenge , he would rather have mentioned his cruelty , as we see he spares not the kings of his own time . but his better answer is , that gildas design'd no history , but a serious exhortation to the britains to repent of their sins , and therefore passes over other things ; onely by the by mentioning ambrosius aurelianus , and addresses himself to his main business ; which is reason enough why he never names king arthur . joh. (t) fordon follows geffrey , as far as he thinks consistent with the honour of his countrey . this appears in the story of king arthur ; for he saith , he was set up by a faction against the lawfull heirs , who were mordred and walwan , the sons of , uther 's daughter by loth , then a great man in scotland ; but descended from fulgentius ; but he after excuses it , on the account of necessity ; which dubricius alledged , they being then under age so much , as not to be able to go into the field . but he justifies mordred's rebellion afterwards against arthur on this ground , that he had the right . title to the crown . (u) hector boethius saith , that lothius put in his claim , according to the ancient law of the britains , and that he ought to have the regency during the minority of his sons ; but the britains would by no means hear of strangers coming to their crown ; and so arthur took possession of it ; who first conquer'd the saxons miles from london , then took london ( which it seems the saxons had before ) and so went towards humber ; and then he goes on with the british history , onely interspersing some news of his own . particularly he tells what a profane christmas arthur kept with his nobles at york for thirteen days together ; and that such iollity and feasting then had its original from him . (w) buchanan is so pleased with this notable observation , that he sets it down for good history ; saying upon it , that the old saturnalia were renewed , onely the days increased , and saturn 's name changed to caesar 's , for , saith he , we call that feast julia . but why should the name of saturn be changed into caesar's ? was he worshipped for a god among the british christians , as saturn was among the old pagans ? but the name julia imports it : by no means . for buchanan doth not prove that this name was ever used for that festival among the britains ; and the saxons who brought in both the feast and the name give another reason for it . for (x) bede saith , that december was called giuli from the conversion of the sun and the increase of the days . and giul , as (y) loccenius observes , signified a wheel , or any thing that turns round , in the gothick language . at which time among the northern nations , the feast of the new year was observed with more than ordinary jollity ; thence as (z) olaus wormius and (a) scheffer observe they reckon'd their age by so many iôla's , and snorro sturleson describes this new-years feast , just as buchanan sets out the british saturnalia , by feasting and sending presents or new-years gifts to one another : thence some think the name of this feast was taken from iôla , which in the gothick language signifies to make merry . but (b) olaus rudbeck thinks the former more proper , not onely from bede's authority , but because in the old runick fasti a wheel was used to denote that festival : and as he observes , this festival continued twelve days from their first of the juul . the true reason whereof was , as olaus rudbeck at large proves ; from the joy they had at the hopes of the return of the sun ; at which time they made solemn sacrifices to the sun. but after christianity prevailed , all their idolatrous sacrifices were laid aside , and this time of feasting was joined with the religious solemnities of that season , which in other parts of the world were observed by christians . which is certainly a very different thing from the roman saturnalia , although buchanan thought fit to parallel them . but to proceed with the story of king arthur , as it is in buchanan , who takes his materials from hector , and puts them into a finer dress . arthur , he saith , made a league with the scots and picts , and lothus brought his sons to him : and then a resolution was taken to drive out the saxons , and to restore christianity ; then follow'd the battel against colgrin ; of which before : and the rest of arthur's battels : but upon the whole , he concludes that geffrey 's relations have no colour of truth ; and yet he makes use of no other , but where he follows hector's own inventions . the remainder of his story is , that things being quieted here , arthur goes over into lesser britain , and leaves the government to his nephew mordred ; but while he was abroad , some had prevailed with him to declare constantine the son of cador his successour being born in britain ; which being done , mordred set up for himself , and in a battel about humber , saith he , mordred was killed , and arthur mortally wounded . thus buchanan having picked what he thought fit out of hector , concludes with a bitter invective against the fabulous relations about arthur ; but he gives him an extraordinary character , saying , he was certainly a great man , of mighty courage and wonderfull kindness to his countrey , preserving them from slavery , and keeping up or restoring the true religion . and that is the subject i am now to consider , viz. the state of religion here in king arthur 's days . it was under great persecution almost whereever the saxons came , who were cruel both to the bodies and souls of the poor britains : most of the southern and western parts were under their tyranny ; and (c) brian twyne quotes a passage out of matt. westminster , which is not so full in the printed copies , concerning the persecution of the british christians in the eastern parts of the land. for , saith he , anno dom. . the pagans came out of germany , and took possession of the countrey of the east-angles , & omni crudelitatis genere christianos affecerunt , they tormented the christians with all sorts of cruelty . although this be wanting in other copies , yet it may be reasonably presumed , the saxons using the british christians in such a manner in the most places where they prevailed . it is true that (d) malmsbury saith , many of the britains submitted to cerdic , and it is probable they were the better used for doing so . tho. (e) rudburn saith , that cerdic allow'd liberty of professing the christian religion to the cornish upon a certain tribute . i rather think that cerdic never went so far , but left that part to the britains , who still continued there : for in gildas his time constantine is said to be king of the danmonii : and (f) camden observes out of marianus scotus , that anno dom. . the britains and saxons had a terrible fight at camelford in cornwall , which leland thinks to have been camlan , where king arthur fought with mordred , and near which is a stone , saith mr. (g) carew , which bears arthur 's name ; but now called atry . to prove what i have said , that the west-saxon kingdom did not extend to cornwall , we may observe that (h) william of malmsbury saith , that ceaulin , granchild to cerdic , was the first who took gloucester , cicester and bath from the britains , and drove them thence into the rocky and woody places : and in the time of athelstan , above years after the coming of the saxons ; the cornish britains did inhabit in exceter , and were driven thence by him beyond the river tamar , and confined by that , as the other britains were by the wye . this shews that the britains in cornwall , and thereabouts , were free from the yoke of the west-saxon kingdom . as to the northern britains , they came to some agreement after a while with oeca and ebusa , whom hengist sent thither ; and that they had their own government , and the christian religion among them appears by the history of ceadwalla , a prince of these britains in (i) bede . but these were but small remnants in the northern and western parts . as to the eastern , we have had the testimony of matt. westminster already . and although the kingdom of the east-angles did not begin till afterwards , about anno dom. . yet in the ninth year of cerdic , about anno dom. . huntingdon observes , that many angles or saxons were come out of germany , and took possession of the countrey of the east-angles and mercia , and whereever they prevailed , the poor british christians suffered to the highest extremity . which is enough to considering men to overthrow the credit of the supposed diploma of king arthur to the vniversity of cambridge , which bears date anno dom. . but brian twyne hath brought no fewer than arguments against it , which are far more than needed . for i cannot think that dr. cajus in earnest believed it , for he goes not about to prove the diploma , but king arthur ; and i cannot think it any honour or service to so famous and ancient an vniversity , to produce any such sespected diplomata or monkish legends to prove its antiquity . it is not certain in whose possession london was at that time , from whence the charter is dated : for the kingdom of the east-saxons was then set up by erkinwin , and london commonly was under that , and that kingdom as (k) malmsbury observes , had the same limits which the diocese of london now hath , viz. essex , middlesex , and part of hartfordshire : (l) matt. westminster agrees , that middlesex was under the kingdom of the east-saxons , but he will not yield that theonus bishop of london did retire with his clergy into wales till anno dom. . and then he confesses that he and thadioc , bishop of york , when they saw all their churches demolished , or turned into idol temples , did for their security retire thither . and there was the freest exercise of their religion kept up , even in the reign of king arthur ; there flourished the schools of literature set up by dubricius and iltutus , and there were the persons of greatest reputation for learning and sanctity in the british churches , such as dubricius , iltutus , paulinus , gundleus , cadocus , sampson , paternus , daniel , and st. david above the rest , whose reputation continues to this day , and was preserved in the saxon churches of britain , as appears by the breviary of salisbury , where nine lessons are appointed upon his day ; and (m) maihew observes that this was by a provincial constitution in the province of canterbury ; but the nine lessons were taken out of the first chapter of the legend of his life , a little being added at the end concerning his death . it is the just complaint of (n) bollandus , that there is nothing extant concerning him , which was written near his own time ; and what is extant hath many fabulous mixtures , so that it is hard to find out the truth . the oldest ms. of his life he saith is that of vtretcht , which he hath published ; the next he accounts is that in colganus , which he would have thought to be the life written by ricemarchus , quoted by archbishop (o) vsher ; whom he supposes to have lived before giraldus cambrensis , who transcribed much out of him . but colganus withall intimates , that the life was taken out of an old book , wherein augustin macraidin , the authour of the annals of ulster had written many things , and probably might write that too ; and to confirm this bollandus observes , onely a little difference in style between this and the vtretcht ms. but if we add to these , giraldus his life , with that of john of tinmouth , or capgrave , we shall after all find , the life of st. david , not much clearer than that of his nephew arthur , for he is supposed to have been uncle to him by the mother's side , whose name is said to be nonnita in capgrave ; nonna in the utrecht ms. nemata in colganus , melari in the life of st. kenna ; so colganus and bollandus say ; but in capgrave i find melari said to be the mother to the father of st. david , i. e. to xantus king of the provincia ceretica , i. e. cardiganshire ( so called from ceretus father to xanctus say some ; from caraticus , who ruled here , as (p) camden seems inclinable to believe ) that melari was one of the daughters of braghanus king of brecknock ; from whom , (q) giraldus saith , the county took its name ; and he said from the british histories that he had daughters ; but capgrave saith he had sons and daughters . d. powell in his notes on giraldus saith , this brachanus his father was haulaphus , king of ireland , and his mother a britain , viz. marcella daughter to theodoric son of tethwaltus king of garthmathrin afterwards called brecknock ; another daughter of brachanus , he saith , was wife to congenus son to cadel , king of powisland , and mother of brochmiel , who killed etheldred king of northumberland , and routed his army about anno dom. . by this we see what a number of petty princes there was about that time among the britains ; but whether st. david were vncle by the mother to king arthur or not , we have not light enough to discover . i shall pass over all the legendary parts of his life ; and consider onely what relates to the church-history of those times . his domestick education is said to have been under pauleus or paulinus a disciple of st. german ; with whom he continued ten years ; in the isle of wight , saith giraldus , but it seems more probable to have been whiteland in caermardenshire ; the school of iltutus being not far off in glamorganshire at lantwitt , i. e. fanum iltuti ; and in his life it is said , that he came to the king of glamorgan ; and after , that sampson , paulinus , gildas and david were his scholars . but bollandus shews , that there must be a mistake as to david ; and that instead of him it should be read daniel , who was a disciple of iltutus , and consecrated first bishop of bangor by dubricius . after this it is said , that david and eliud , or teliaus , and paternus went to jerusalem , and david was there consecrated bishop by the patriarch . and it is not to be wondred , that in such a distracted time at home , they should go to jerusalem , when (r) saint jerome in his time mentions the britains going thither ; especially such as were more inclined to devotion ; which humour spread so much , that gregory nyssen wrote against it , as a thing very much tending to superstition if not arising from it . but it was most excusable in such a troublesome time at home . not long after his return , the famous synod at brevy was held at a place called lhandewy-brevy , the church of saint david at brevy . here the vtrecht ms. saith , was a synod assembled of all the bishops of britain upon the account of the pelagian controversie then revived . giraldus saith , it was a general convention of clergy and laity . but the former ms. saith , there were present . bishops , besides abbats and others . one would think it hard to find so many bishops in britain at that time : and bollandus startles at it , but colganus undertakes to defend it ; having premised that giraldus and capgrave leave it out ; but he saith , there were more bishops at that time than afterwards ; and more bishops than bishopricks , dioceses not being then so limitted as afterwards ; and every monastery almost having a bishop its superiour ; by which means he justifies saint patrick 's consecrating , as jocelin saith , bishops with his own hands . but after all this , giraldus did much better to omit such a number in such a time , unless there were better testimony concerning it . however there was a considerable number there present , yet st. david was absent , and first paulinus was sent to him , but he prevailed not , then daniel and dubricius went , upon whose intreaty he came , and by his authority and eloquence put an effectual stop to pelagianism : and before the end of the synod it is said , that by general consent he was chosen archbishop of caerleon , dubricius desiring to retire on the account of his age. but here we meet with a considerable difficulty concerning the succession to dubricius , viz. that teliaus is said to succeed dubricius at landaff , and to have power over all the churches of the western parts of britain ; how can this be consistent with st. david's succeeding dubricius in the see of caerleon , which had the metropolitan power over those churches ? (s) bishop godwin out of bale , and as he supposeth , out of leland saith , that st. dubricius was first bishop of landaff being there consecrated by germanus and lupus , and that afterwards he was removed by a synod to caerleon , and teliaus placed in landaff . but this by no means clears the difficulty ; for although bale doth there exactly follow leland , yet leland himself did not seem to have consulted the book of landaff ; where it is said , that when dubricius was made archbishop , he had the see of landaff conferr'd upon him , by the gift of mouricus then king , and the three estates , i. e. the nobles , clergy and people , and all the land between the taff and elei : and (t) leland himself out of another authour saith , that when dubricius was made archbishop , landaff was made his cathedral church . after dubricius his time teliaus is said to be archbishop several times in the book of landaff ; and after him oudoceus is called summus episcopus ; and the bishop of landaff in 〈◊〉 sermon to calixtus . anno dom. . saith , that it appears by the hand writing of st. teliaus , that the church of landaff was superiour in dignity to all other churches in wales . that which seems to me the most probable account of this matter is , that when landaff was given to dubricius then archbishop , he fixed his see there , and so landaff was the seat of the archbishop of caerleon . but afterwards when st. david removed the archiepiscopal see to menevia , a remote , barren and inconvenient place , as giraldus himself confesseth ; the bishops of landaff assumed the archiepiscopal power , which had been in that see , and would not submit to the bishops of st. davids . this is apparent from that passage of oùdocëus ( who succeeded theliaus ) in the book of landaff , that he would not receive consecration from the bishop of st. davids , as his metropolitan , but had it from the archbishop of canterbury . this is a very improbable thing at that time considering the hatred the britains did bear to the saxons , and their bishops to augustin the monk : it is far more likely that they received it from the archbishop of dole in britany ; or from the archbishop of london then resident in those parts ; who probably kept up their succession for some time , as long as there were any hopes of returning to their own see , as is before observed . after this giraldus speaks of another great council held by st. david , which he calls victoria ; in which he saith all the clergy of wales were present ; and the decrees of the former council were confirmed , and new canons made for the government of the british churches ; but this second synod is not mentioned in the old vtrecht ms. nor in capgrave , but it is in colganus , and by the expressions it appears to have been taken out of giraldus , who confesseth , that no copies of those canons were to be seen in his time , that coast being so often visited by pirats , ( who no doubt came to steal mss. and especially church-canons . ) i will not deny that the british churches at that time , and in those parts might be said to be in a flourishing condition in comparison with other parts of britain , and there might be more christians there , because they had been driven out from other places ; and their brethrens afflictions might encrease their devotion ; but gildas takes no more notice of st. david than he doth of king arthur . the battel at badon-hill according to archbishop vsher , was the year after the synod at brevy , and from that time the british churches had some quiet from their enemies : but then u gildas saith , the britains quarrelled among themselves ; but yet so as that some kind of order and government was then kept up among them , by the remembrance of their late calamities . and at this time he speaks the best of the britains , that he doth in his whole book ; for he saith , that kings and publick and private persons , bishops and other churchmen ( for sacerdotes in that age often signified bishops , and gildas calls it sacerdotalem episcopatus sedem ) did all keep to the duty of their places . but then he adds , when the sense of these calamities was worn out , and a new generation arose , they fell into such a degeneracy as to cast off all the reins of truth and iustice , that no remainder of it appear'd in any sort of men , except a few , a very few , whose number was so small in comparison with the rest , that the church could hardly discern its genuine children when they lay in her bosome . but before i come to this last and saddest part of the history of the british churches it will be necessary now to give some account of those britains , who being wearied out here went for refuge to that countrey in france , which from them is called bretagn . it seems hard to determine when the first colony of britains was setled in the parts of aremorica . for in the declining times of the roman empire , there was so frequent occasion of the british souldiers removing into the continent , and so little encouragement to return hither , that it is not improbable , that after the troubles of maximus and constantine a colony of britains might settle themselves upon the sea coasts near to britain , where they might be ready to receive or to go over to their countrymen ; as the condition of affairs should happen . this i am very much induced to believe , not from the authority of nennius , or geffrey , or william of malmsbury , or radulphus niger , &c. but from these arguments ; first from sidonius apollinaris ; and there are two passages in him which tend to the clearing this matter , the first is concerning aruandus accused at rome of treason , in the time of anthemius , for persuading the king of the goths to make war upon the greek emperour , i. e. anthemius , who came out of greece , and upon the britains on the loir , as w sidonius apollinaris expresly affirms , who lived at that time , and pitied his case . this hapned about anno dom. . before anthemius was the second time consul . from whence it appears , not onely that there were britains then settled on the loir , but that their strength and forces were considerable , which cannot be supposed to consist of such miserable people as fled from hence for fear of the saxons : and it is observable , that about this time ambrosius had success against the saxons , and by vortimer's means , or his , the britains were in great likelihood of driving them out of britain ; so that there is no probability that the warlike britains should at that time leave their native countrey . a second passage is concerning riothamus , a king of the britains in the time of x sidonius apollinaris , and to whom he wrote , who went with britains to assist the romans against euricus king of the goths , but were intercepted by him , as y jornandes relates the story , and sigebert places it anno dom. . now what clearer evidence can be desired than this , to prove that a considerable number of britains were there settled , and in a condition not onely to defend themselves , but to assist the romans ; which cannot be imagined of such as merely fled thither after the saxons coming into britain . besides we find in sirmondus his gallican councils , mansuetus a bishop of the britains subscribing to the first council at tours , which was held anno dom. . by which we see the britains had so full a settlement then , as not onely to have habitations , but a king and bishops of their own ; which was the great incouragement for other britains to go over , when they found themselves so hard pressed by the saxons at home . for a people frighted from hence , would hardly have ventured into a foreign countrey , unless they had been secure before hand of a kind reception there . if they must have fought for a dwelling there , had they not far better have done it in their own countrey ? from whence i conclude , that there was a large colony of britains in aremorica before those numbers went over upon the saxon cruelties ; of which z eginhardus and other foreign historians speak . archbishop vsher seems to think this riothamus himself to have been the first leader of them ; but it is hard to think a person of his valour and experience would leave his countrey in that distressed condition it was brought into by the saxons . but a florentius the authour of the life of judocus son to a king of bretagn saith , that his name was rioval , a prince here in britain , who gathered a good army and fleet together , and with that subdued the people who lived on the aremorican coasts , being then left destitute and unable to defend themselves . for that was the effect of the roman government , which was kept up by the force of the roman legions in all parts of it , and so when these were broken , the nations were so unaccustomed to war , that they lay open to all invaders . so that the aggressors did generally succeed in their attempts where the roman legions were withdrawn : and next to the wise providence of god which ordereth all things , there was no one cause which contributed so much to the miseries of those times , and the strange revolutions which hapned in them , as the natives being not trained up to martial discipline , but depending wholly on the roman legions for their defence and security ; thence , whatever people had the courage to invade , did usually take possession of the countrey where the roman legions were at a distance , or otherwise engaged against each other . thus in france , the goths , the burgundians , the franks , and the britains took possession of the several parts they attempted ; and the goths and vandals in spain : so goths and lombards in italy it self . so that it is not to be wondred , if the saxons prevailed here at last ; but with as much difficulty , and after as many battels , as were fought by any people of that time without foreign assistence . but to return to the aremorican britains , whether they came over under rioval in the beginning of the distractions here , when the people were so rebellious against their princes , as gildas relates , or whether they went over to assist constantine and his son , and so remained there , i shall not determin . but that the britains were well settled there before sampson archbishop of york and his company passed the seas , appears by what b mat. paris saith , that they went to their fellow citizens and countrey men , hoping to live more quietly there . and after the death of the bishop of dole , he was by the consent of the britains put into his place , and from thence forwards exercised his archiepiscopal power there ; the kings of that province , not suffering his successours there to pay any obedience to the archbishop of tours . which begot a suit which held years in the court of rome , and was this year manfully decided by innocent iii. as mat. paris there relates : who states the case very unskilfully , laying the weight of it upon the archbishop's bringing over his pall from york , which the pope had given him there . suppose this were true ( although the popes gave no palls then , nor a great while after ) yet this were no reason to contest it in the court of rome so long together . but the difficulty of the case lay upon another point , viz. according to the old canon of the church , if a province were divided into two , each province was to have a metropolitan ; now this reason held much stronger when new kingdoms were erected out of the roman provinces : for what reason was there why the bishop of dole in the kingdom of bretagn should yield subjection to the bishop of tours in a distinct kingdom ? and there was the fairer colour for this when one actually an archbishop before came to be settled there ; and from hence they insisted on a prescription of a very long time , wherein no subjection had been made to the bishop of tours , as appears by the account given of this cause by (c) innocent iii. in his epistles lately published by baluzius . on the other side it was pleaded , that all britanny was under the jurisdiction of the archbishop of tours , but that the britains conspiring against the king of france , and setting up a kingdom of their own , they made use of sampson , archbishop of york , coming to establish a metropolitan power within that kingdom : and upon complaint made to rome , the popes had put it upon this issue , whether any of their predecessors had granted the pall to the bishop of dole , which not being proved , the pope , as it was easie to imagine , gave sentence against the bishop of dole . but it is certain , that they went upon a false suggestion , viz. that the kingdom of bretagn was set up in rebellion to the kingdom of france . for childeric had not extended his dominions in france as far as the loir : and before his time , the britains were in quiet possession of those parts of aremorica ; and the best (d) french historians now grant that the britains came thither in the time of merovée , who obtained but little in gaul , as (e) hadrianus valesius confesseth . and the (f) authour of the life of gildas observes , that the power of the kings of france was very inconsiderable in the time of childeric , son of merovée , at what time gildas went over into aremorica , as his school-fellows under iltutus , sampson and paulus had done before him ; whereof one succeeded the other sampson at dole , and the other was made bishop of the oxismii , the most northern people of bretagn ; which diocese is since divided into three , treguier , s. pol de leon , and s. brieu . here gildas at the request of his brethren who came out of britain , saith the authour of his life , wrote his epistle , wherein he so sharply reproves the several vices of the five kings of britain ▪ whom he calls by the names of constantine , aurelius , vortiporius , cuneglasus and maglocunus ; and speaks to them all as then living . the (g) british history makes them to succeed each other ; constantine , according to that , was killed in his third year by aurelius conanus . he died in his second year , and vortiporius succeeding him reigned four years . after him he places malgo , and leaves cuneglasus wholly out . but that they reigned at the same time in several parts of britain is evident from gildas , because he saith , he knew that constantine was then living ; now constantine reigning the first of these , how could he speak to the four kings that succeeded him , if he were still living ? for there is no colour , for imagining that gildas still added his reproof as one died and another succeeded ; for any one may discern it was written in one continued style , and he writes to them all as then living without the least intimation that they succeeded each other : besides , he calls constantine the issue of the impure damnonian lioness ; and at this time the britains in the remote western parts were separated from the other by the west saxon kingdom ; and therefore there is far less probability that all the britains at that time should be under one monarch . and where they had greatest freedom of living together , they were divided into several principalities . for he , whom gildas calls maglocunus , is by the british writers called maelgun guineth , and mailgunus mentioned by john of tinmouth , in the life of st. paternus , and by thaliessin in sir john price , from whom it appears that he was king of north-wales . and as gildas calls vortiporius the tyrant of the demetae , by whom the inhabitants of south-wales are understood : aurelius conanus , archbishop (h) vsher thinks was king of powisland ; which was sometime a third kingdom . and for cuneglasus , it seems probable , he had the command of the northern britains ; for it is plain from bede they had a distinct principality there . all these gildas doth very severely reprove for their several vices ; and then taxes the judges and clergy to the conclusion of his epistle , to the end they might repent of their sins , and acquit the just and wise providence of god in the judgments he brought upon them , which were very terrible , and ended in the desolation of the countrey and the ruine of the british churches , excepting onely those remnants which were confined to the corners of the land. for our (i) historians say , that the saxons left not the face of christianity whereever they did prevail . this is a very sad subject , which ought not to be passed over without that reflexion which st. (k) paul made on the church of the jews and gentiles . behold the goodness and severity of god ; on them which fell severity , but towards thee goodness ; if thou continue in his goodness , otherwise thou also shalt be cut off . it remains onely , that we consider the liberty or independency of the british churches ; of which we can have no greater proof than from the carriage of the british bishops towards augustin the monk , when he came with full power from the pope to require subjection from them . and this material point relating to the british churches i shall endeavour to clear from all the objections which have been made against it . in order thereto , we are to understand , that (l) augustin the monk by virtue of the pope's authority , did challenge a superiority over the bishops of the british churches , which appears not onely by gregory's answer to his interrogations , but by the scheme of the ecclesiastical government here , which gregory sent to him , after he had a fair prospect of the conversion of the saxons , which was at the same time that he sent mellitus , justus , paulinus and rufinianus , with the archiepiscopal pall to him . there he declares that there were to be two archbishops sees , one at london ( which out of honour to ethelbert or augustin was fixed at canterbury , or rather by ethelbert's own authority ) and the other at york , which had been a metropolitan see in the british times , and both these archbishops were to have twelve suffragan bishops under them . the bishop of london was to be consecrated by his own synod , and to receive the pall from the pope ; but augustin was to appoint the first bishop of york , who was to yield subjection to him for his time , but afterwards the sees were to be independent on each other . but by all this , it should seem , that he had authority given him onely over those bishops who were consecrated by him , and the archbishop of york ; what then becomes of those bishops in britain who were consecrated by neither , and such they knew there were ? concerning these gregory gives a plain answer , that they were all to be subject to the authority of augustine ; and to govern themselves in life and doctrine and church offices according to his direction . augustine being furnished with such full powers , as he thought , desires a meeting with the british bishops , at a place called augustinsac , as (m) bede saith , in the confines of the wiccii and the west saxons . where this place was is very uncertain , and not at all material ; camden could find nothing like it , and the conjectures of others since have no great probability , either as to austric , or haustake , or ossuntree , but at this place , the british bishops gave augustine a meeting ; where the first thing proposed by him was , that they would embrace the vnity of the catholick church , and then join with them in preaching to the gentiles , for , saith he , they did many things repugnant to the vnity of the church ; which was in plain terms to charge them with schism ; and the terms of communion offer'd , did imply submission to the church of rome , and by consequence to his authority over them . but the utmost that could be obtained from them , was onely that they would take farther advice , and give another meeting , with a greater number . and then were present seven bishops of the britains , and many learned men , chiefly of the monastery of banchor , where dinoth was then abbat ; and the result of this meeting was , that they utterly refused submission to the church of rome , or to augustine as archbishop over them . and for the account of this , we are beholding to bede , whose authority is liable to no exception in this matter . but against this plain matter of fact , there have been three objections made which must be removed . . that augustine did not require subjection from the british bishops , but onely treated with them , about other matters in difference between them . . that their refusing subjection to the bishop of rome depends upon the credit of a spurious british ms. lately invented and brought into light , as the answer of dinoth . ( . ) that if they did refuse subjection to the pope , it was schismatical obstinacy in them , and contrary to the former sense of the british church . to all these i shall give a clear and full answer . ( . ) as to the matter of their conference , it cannot be denied that other things were started ; as about the paschal controversie and some rites of baptism , &c. but this was the main point ; which augustine did not in plain terms insist upon , because it would look too invidiously to require subjection to himself , but he cunningly insinuates it under the name of ecclesiastical vnity . for i dare appeal to any man 's common sense , whether upon the principles of the church of rome , the british bishops complying in other things and rejecting the pope's authority would have been thought sufficient ? if so , then submission to the pope is no necessary term of communion ; and men may be in a very safe condition without it . but if it were necessary , then augustine must imply it within the terms of catholick peace and ecclesiastical vnity . it is therefore ridiculous in (n) alford and (o) cressy , and such writers to say , that augustine did not insist upon it : for it is to charge him with ignorance or stupidity , that he should leave out so necessary an article of communion : and yet gregory had so great an opinion of him , as to make him the directour of the british churches . and therefore it cannot be supposed that he should offer terms of communion without requiring submission to the pope's authority ; if those were in a state of schism who denied it . but it is said , that in the conclusion of the second meeting , augustine did not insist upon , nor so much as mention any subjection to him from the british churches , but onely required compliance in three points , viz. the time of the paschal solemnity agreeable with the church of rome ; following the roman customes in baptism ; and joining with them in preaching to the saxons ; and upon these they brake up the meeting . to which i answer . that these things were required by augustin , not as conditions of brotherly communion , but as the marks of subjection to his authority ; which appears from bede's own words , si in tribus his mihi obtemperare vultis , &c. which cressy very unfaithfully renders , if they would conform in three points onely : whereas the meaning is , if they would own his authority in those three things ; and therefore the british bishops answered very appositely , when they said , we will neither doe the things nor submit to you as archbishop over us . why should they deny subjection if it had not been required of them ? which shews they very well understood his meaning , and gave answer in short , to the main point . and upon this account i suppose it was , that , the anchoret's advice was followed about observing whether he rose up to the british bishops at their entrance ; not that they were so offended for want of a complement , as mr. cressey suggests , but this was look'd on by them , as a mark of that superiority which he challenged over them ; and therefore they had reason to take so great notice of it , and to infer harder usage from him , when they should be under his authority . they could not be ignorant what authority the pope had given augustin , and that made them more observant of his whole behaviour , and finding it so agreeing to the character of an archbishop over the british churches , they give him that resolute answer , that they would not own any authority he had as archbishop over them . which is a sufficient proof , that this was really the main point contested between them . ( . ) as to the british ms. which contains dinoth's answer more at large ; i answer ; . (p) leland observes , that the british writers give a more ample account of this matter than is extant in bede ; who is very sparing in what concerns the british affairs . but from them he saith , that dinoth did at large dispute with great learning and gravity against receiving the authority of the pope , or of augustin ; and defended the power of the archbishop of st. davids ; and affirmed it not to be for the british interest to own either the roman pride or the saxon tyranny . and he finds fault with gregory , for not admonishing the saxons of their gross vsurpations , against their solemn oaths ; and adds , that it was their duty , if they would be good christians to restore their unjust and tyrannical power to those from whom they had taken it . for dinoth , out of his great learning could not but know , that the pope under a pretence of bringing in the true faith could not confirm them in their unjust vsurpation . for if that should be admitted no princes could be safe in their dominions . and no doubt the british bishops looked upon this attempt of augustin upon them to be the adding one vsurpation to another : which made them so adverse to any communication with the missionaries which otherwise had been inexcusable . ( . ) the certainty of the british churches rejecting the pope's authority , and augustin's jurisdiction doth not depend upon the credit of this british ms. for this is sufficiently clear from bede's own words , wherein they declare , they would not own augustin as archbishop over them . but if they had owned the pope's authority , they ought to have submitted to him , who acted by virtue of his commission : and it was not possible for them at such a distance from rome , to express their disowning his authority more effectually than by rejecting him , whom he had sent to be archbishop over them . and nich. trivet in his ms. history cited by sir h. (q) spelman , saith expresly , that augustin did demand subjection from the britains to him , as the pope's legate , but they refused it . so that if this ms. had never been heard of , the matter of fact had been nevertheless fully attested . ( . ) the objections against this ms. are not sufficient to destroy the authority of it . sir h. spelman who sets it down at large in welsh , english and latin , tells from whom he had it , and exactly transcribed it , and that it appeared to him to have been an old ms. taken out of an older , but without date or authour , and believes it to be still in the cotton library . here is all the appearance of ingenuity and faithfulness that can be expected ; and he was a person of too great judgment and sagacity to be easily imposed upon by a modern invention , or a new found schedule , as mr. cressy phrases it . the substance of it is , that the abbat of banchor , in the name of the british churches declares , that they owe the subjection of brotherly kindness , and charity to the church of god , and to the pope of rome , and to all christians : but other obedience than that , they did not know to be due to him whom they called pope ; and for their parts they were under the jurisdiction of the bishop of caerleon upon usk , who was under god their spiritual overseer and directour . but , say the objectors , there was then no bishop of caerleon upon usk , and had not been since the time the metropolitan jurisdiction was by st. david transferr'd to menevia . i grant that from the time of dubricius the see was transferr'd first to landaff , and then to st. davids , but this latter translation was not agreed to by all the british bishops ; and it appears by the foregoing discourse , that the bishops of landaff did at that time when oudocëus lived , challenge the metropolitical power of caerleon to themselves , and therefore would not be consecrated by the bishop of st. davids . and caerleon having been the ancient metropolitical see , it was no absurdity at all to mention that in a dispute which depended upon ancient right . for the authority over the british churches was not upon the account of st. davids or landaff , but the metropolitan right which belonged to the see of caerleon . as if in the british times the metropolitan see had been removed from london to canterbury , what incongruity had it been in a dispute of superiority to have alledged , that the british churches of these parts were under the jurisdiction of the archbishop of london , although at that time the see were removed to another place ? and if this be all to make it appear to be a forgery , as mr. cressy pretends , for all that i can see , it may be a very ancient and genuine ms. but alford goes deeper , for he disproves it , because it contradicts the sense of the british churches before , which professed subjection to the roman see. this is indeed to the purpose if it be well proved , which in the last place comes to be considered . ( . ) to this purpose he alledges , ( . ) the confirmation of st. david 's synod by the pope's authority . but from whence hath he this ? from no other testimony than that of giraldus cambrensis cited by bishop vsher , who in the same place confesses , that there was no monument of those synods at all remaining , nor of the pope's confirmation of them ; and the other mss. and legends of st. david's life say not a word of this . how then came giraldus to affirm it ? we are to remember that giraldus had a cause depending in the court of rome , about the bishoprick of st. david's , and he knew well enough what doctrine was pleasing there , and therefore the testimony of such a one , having no concurrent evidence to support it is of very little force in this matter . ( . ) he mentions the respect kentigern shew'd to the church of rome , going seven times thither , and having at last his uncanonical ordination purged , or confirmed by the pope ; as the authour of his legend relates . but this seems to me a senseless and ridiculous legend : for as (r) bollandus observes , if kentigern went seven times to rome how came he to put off the errour of his consecration to the last ? if it were good before , why not then ? if naught before , then all the acts performed by him by virtue of his first consecration were invalid . but there is no more errour supposed in the consecration of kentigern by one bishop , than there was in that of seruanus by palladius , which as (s) joh. major saith , was good in case of necessity . but the writers of the legends , living long after the times of the persons , framed their stories according to the customs of their own times ; and because such a consecration was not then held good , therefore the authour of his legend takes care to have that defect supplied at rome , and to make amends he saith , that kentigern at his death recommended to his disciples the decrees of the fathers , and the customs of the roman church . but what is this to the necessity of subjection to the roman see from the general sense of the british churches ? what if kentigern having been often at rome , were pleased more with the customs of that church , than of the britains ? doth it hence follow , that those britains who maintained customs contrary to the romans , did think it necessary to conform to the church of rome , when the plain evidence of fact is to the contrary ; and which hath far more authority than such legends as these ? ( . ) ninianus is (t) said to have learnt the christian doctrine at rome , who converted the southern picts , and founded the church ad candidam casam ; being the first built of stone . but what follows from hence ? because ninianus was made a christian at rome , therefore the british churches always own'd the pope's supremacy . they are indeed to seek for arguments who make use of such as these . ( . ) he offers to prove the constant submission of the british churches to the roman see from gildas himself , and he makes use of two arguments . ( . ) from his calling the british churches sedem petri , the see of st. peter . i confess gildas hath these words , but quite in another sense ; for in the beginning of his invective against the clergy , among other things he charges them , that they did sedem petri apostoli immundis pedibus usurpare . doth he mean that they defiled st. peter 's chair at rome ? no certainly , but he takes st. peter's chair for that which all the clergy possessed , and implies no more than their ecclesiastical function ; and so he opposes it to (u) the chair of judas , into which , he saith , such wicked men fell . but if they will carry st. peter 's chair to rome , they must carry the chair of judas thither too . ( . ) (w) alford insists on this passage in gildas , that they were more ambitious of degrees in the church than of the kingdom of heaven ; and after a bitter invective against their symoniacal contracts , he adds , that where they were opposed they ran beyond sea to compass their ends . now saith alford , whither should this be but to rome ? for as leland observes in the case of giraldus cambrensis , sunt enim omnia venalia romae : all things are bought and sold there ; and therefore whither should such notorious symoniacal persons go , but to rome ? this is a very surprising argument , and is more wisely past over by mr. cressy than insisted on by alford , as being a horrible reflexion on the court of rome in those days . but to say truth , there is not one word of rome in gildas ; but if they will apply it to rome , how can we help it ? to conclude this discourse , (x) alford is much displeased with (y) sir h. spelman for paralleling the case of the british bishops , and augustine , with that of the cyprian bishops against the patriarch of antioch : but for what reason ? why , saith he , the council of ephesus did not permit the cyprian bishops to decline the iudgment of their patriarch , but declared the bishop of antioch not to be their patriarch . very well ! and is not this the very case here ? the bishop of rome challenged a patriarchal power over the british churches , and appoints an archbishop over them , but they deny that he had such authority over them , they being governed by their own metropolitan , as the cyprian bishops were : and therefore by the decree of the council of ephesus , they were bound to preserve their own rights , and consequently to oppose that foreign iurisdiction , which augustine endeavoured to set up over them . the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e ola rudbeck . atlantic . c. . . historical account of ancient church government in great britain and ireland . letter to lord chancellour , p. . v. gratian. lucium in cambr. evers . p. , . a primo quidem hujus regni fergusio filio ferchardi ad hunc regem fergusium filium erch inclusive , . reges ejusdem gentis & generis in hac insula regnaverunt : sed & horum sigillatim distinguere tempora principatuum ad praesens omittimus , nam ad plenum scripta non reperimus . fordon scotichr . l. . c. . defence of the antiquity , &c. p. . l. . f. . f. . . p. . l. . f. . . f. . leslae . l. . p. . buch. l. . p. . p. . defence , &c. p. . just right of monarchy , p. . leslae . hist. p. . . p. . p. . p. . p. . hect. boeth . hist. l. . f. . leslae , hist. scot. p. . p. . (a) hect. boeth . l. . f. . l. . leslae . p. . (b) hect. boeth . l. . f. . leslae . p. . (c) hect. boeth . l. . f. . leslae . p. . (d) hect. boeth . l. . f. . leslae . p. . (e) hect. boeth . l. . f. . leslae . p. . (f) hect. boeth . l. . f. . leslae . p. . (g) hect. boeth . l. . f. . leslae . p. . leslae . p. , . p. . scotichron . l. . c. . scotichron . l. . c. . scotichr . l. . c. . buchan . l. . p. . scotichr . l. . c. . c. . defence of the antiquity of the royal line , p. , . p. . scotich l. . c. . leslae . p. . hect. boeth . hist. l. . f. . gratian. luc. cambr. evers . p. . scotichr . l. . c. . hect. boeth . l. . f. . hist. eccles. l. . ● . . scotichron . l. . c. . chap. . leslae . paraen . ad nobil . scot. p. . defence of the antiquity of the royal line , p. . p. . p. . prodrom . hist. natur. scot. p. . p. . scotichr . l. . c. . suffr . petr. de origine frisiorum , l. . c. . c. . p. . p. . p. . p. . * hoc solum judicamus , quae de scotis & corum regibus ab anno . ante caput aerae christianae , cum alexander macedo rerum potiretur in oriente usque ad fergusium . regem scotiae quadragesimum , cujus initium conjicitur à scotis scriptoribus in annum christi . qui ejectos è britannia scotos dicitur reduxisse , non ex annalibus vetustis vetustos autores habentibus , sed ex 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 traditionibus à recentioribus deprompta memorantur , ea nos pro certis habere non posse . scimus enim quam lubrico atque instabili fundamento nitantur . quinimo ne ista quidem satìs certa nobis videntur , quae à fergusii . initio , & scotorum reditu in britanniam in rebus scoticis recitantur ad a. d. . quo picti scribuntur in britannia à scotis esse deleri . scil . anno kenethi . regum hujus gentis , ut traditiones habent lxix . vbb. em. rer. chronolog . l. . p. . † de primorum gentis regum initiis multa haud dubie fabulosa habent scotorum , quemadmodum & aliarum gentium postremis demum temporibus , compositi aut conficti annales ; itaque fabulosa , quae & tempora ipsa quibus tribuuntur , falsi arguunt , missa facimus , neque pro nostro ea faciunt instituto . boxhorn . hist univers . p. . defence , &c. p. . joh. major , hist. scot. l. . f. . c. . c. . l. . c. . scalig. in tibull . l. . buch. l. . p. . . defence of the antiquity , &c. p. . scalig. in euseb. n. . pausan. in . arcad. defence , &c. p. , , . defence , &c. p. . hist. de grand . chemins , l. . c. . n. . defence , &c. p. , . p. . . p. . p. . liv. l. . init . de orat. l. . c. . serv. in virg. aen. l. . v. . voss. de hist. lat. l. . c. . liv. l. . c. . c. . c. . c. . in bruto , c. . dionys. antiq. rom. l. . f. . fest. v. roma . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. , . p. . censor . de die natali , c. . preface to the prospect of ireland . aug. de civit. dei , l. . c. . mendoza de reg. chinae , l. . c. . vbb. em. rer. chronol . l. . p. . scalig. canon . isagog . l. . p. . martin . sinic . histor. l. . p. . . martin . sinic . hist. l. . p. . semedo part . ch . . prospect of ireland by p. w. p. . p. . p. . rer. francis. to. . strab. geogr. l. . p. . camd. brit. p. . antiq. hibern ▪ c. . p. . strab. geogr. l. . p. . strab. l. . p. . vit. agric. iornand . de rebus get. l. . c. . holsten . not. in in steph. de vrbibus , p. . atlantic . c. . § . walsingh . in hypodigm . neustriae . britan p. ● . flaherty ogygi , p. . acta sanct. hib. mart. . p. . n. . ogyg. p. . ogyg. p. . c. , . part . cambrens . evers . c. . p. . ogyg. part . c. . part . p. , . war. antiquit. hibern . c. . bed. l. . c. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . buchan . l. . p. . scotich . l. . c. . hect. boeth . hist. l. . f. . lesla . de orig. scot. l. . p. . buch. l. . p. . . p. . ogyg. p. . cambrens . evers . p. . ogyg. p. . bed. l. . c. . c. . primord . p. . p. . camd. britan. p. . ogyg. p. . p. . p. . censor . de die natal . c. . cambr. evers . p. . ogyg. p. . p. . camd. brit. p. . actae sanct. mart. . vit. patric . § . ogyg. part . c. . p. . p. . ogyg. p. . ogyg. p. . ogyg. domest . part . c. , . c. . c. . ogyg. p. . scotich . l. . c. . buchan . p. . . . . . dempst . hist. scot. l. . n. . scotich . l. . c. . l. . c. . buch. l. . p. . . apparat. ad hist. scot. l. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . dempster . hist. eccles. l. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . hist. scot. l. . f. . l. . f. . . l. . c. . scotichron . l. . c. . scotichron . l. . c. . f. . vo●s . de hist. lat. l. . c. . p. . p. . hect. boeth . scot. hist. l. . f. . l. . f. . . l. . f. . l. . f. . . leslae . l. . p. ● . dempster . hist. eccl. l. . n. . p. . scotich . l. . c. . voss. de hist. lat. l. . c. . p. . dempst . hist. eccles. l. . n. . scotich . l. . c. . leslae . l. . p. , . dempst . appar . l. . p. . scotichron . l. . c. . scotich . l. . c. . c. ● . v●ler . p●imord . p. ● . p. . dempst . hist. eccles. l. . n. . voss. de hist. lat. l. . c. . p. . p. . carm. . v. ● . buch. rer. scot. l. . p. . p. . p. . oros. hist. l. . c. . dempst . appari l. . c. . de laud. stilich . l. . v. . buch. l. . p. . p. , . gild. epist. gild. epist. p. . ed. iossel . p. . p. , . p. . camd. brit. p. . ogyg. part . . c. . p. . adamn . vit. columb . l. . apud canis . to. . antiq. lection . caesar. de hall. gallic . l. . de bel. civ . l. . p. . lucan . l. . solin . c. . gild. epist. p. . . bed. l. . c. . buch. p. . . gild. p. . bed. l. . c. . ch. . p. , . p. . p. . p. . p. . ogyg. p. . p. . p. . dempst . appar . l. . c. . bar. a. d. . n. . p. . p. . p. . p. . l. . c. . l. . c. . p. . p. . p. . buch. l. . p. . p. . . major . hist. scot. l. . c. . oros. l. . c. . bed. l. . c. . isidor . orig. l. . c. . p. . p. . p. . p. . vsser . primord . p. , &c. war. antiq. hib. c. . bed. l. . c. . l. . c. . p. . ogyg. p. . l. . c. . p. . l. . c. . l. . c. . c. . c. , . c. . c. . c. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . c. . p. . l. . c. . p. , . p. . vidication of the dissertation about episcopacy , p. , &c. p. . notes for div a -e (a) animadvers . on the church hist. of britain , p. , . (b) euseb. hist. eccles. l. . c. . (c) chronic. alex. p. . (d) glyc . annal. p. . p. . (e) niceph. l. . c. . (f) cappel . cent. eccles. christian. a. d. . act. . . (g) baron . ad a. d. . n. . (h) bosquet . hist. eccles. gallic . l. . c. . (i) usser . de primord . p. . (k) sirmond . de duobus dionysiis , c. . (l) bar. a. d. . n. . (m) v. launoii opusc. de lazaro , &c. p. . (n) natal . alex. hist. eccles. sac. . part. . p. . (o) gild. epist. ed. josselin . . (p) xiphilin . in neron . (q) euseb. hist. eccles. l. . c. . (r) tertul. apolog. c. . (s) oros. l. . c. . (t) sanders , p●●●f . ad itla . de schism . anglit . (v) bona , rer. liturgic . l. . c. . (w) leland , de scriptor . in gilda . (x) galt . mon. l. . ● . . ed. bad● as. (y) watts instrumento historic . manuscript . (z) primord . c. . p. . (a) apud trithem . compend . annal. l. . (b) nen. c. . (c) bal. de script . brit. l. . p. . (d) leland , de script . in melkino . * leland , in flaan● . (e) spelman . conc. brit. to. . p. . (f) usser . de prim. p. . (g) concil . brit. p. . (h) girald . de instit. princ. & in specul . eccles. (i) leland , collec . vol. . p. . assert . arthuri , p. . &c. * concil . brit. p. . (k) annal. eccl. a. d. . n. . (l) church hist. l. . c. . (m) alford . ib. n. . cressy , l. . c. . (n) antiq. brit. p. . godwin , de praesul . p. . (o) capgr . in vita josephi . (p) pits , de script . a.d. . . (q) apud vincent . spec. histor . l. . c. . (r) monastic . vol. . p. . (s) alford . a. d. . n. . (t) cressy 's hist. l. . c. . n. . (u) vossi . de histor. latinis , l. . c. . (w) miscellan . s. patr. ad calc . oper. greg. thaumaturg . (x) bucherius belg. roman . l. . c. . n. . * rer. aleman . to . l. . p. . (y) papebroch . propyl . ad to. . apr. §. . (z) aventinus annal. boior . l. . p. . (a) chronic. burg. ad a. d. . (b) spelman . concil . p. . c. . (c) mabillon de re diplom . l. . c. . p. . §. . n. . (d) gul. malms . de gestis pontif. l. . p. . (e) capgr . vit . patricii . (f) acta sanct. mart. . vit . s. patricii proleg . §. . n. . (g) monastic . vol. . p. . (h) mabillon de re diplomat . l. . c. . (i) petr. blesens . ep. . (k) of vse and custome p. . (l) spelman . concil . p. . (m) gervas . doro. a.d. . inter . script . . (n) monastic . p. , , . (o) chronic. ms. in bibl. a. t. c. (p) ingulph . hist. p. . ed. sav. (q) vit. abbat . s. alban . p. , . (r) mabill . de re diplonat . l. . c. . n. , . (s) antiquit. britan. in anselmo . (t) antiquit. oxon. l. . §. . (u) seld. not. ad eadmer . p. . (w) de antiq. cant. academ . l. . p. . (x) seld. of the office of lord chancellor , ch . . (y) inst. f. . a. (z) polyd. virg. de invent. l. . c. . (a) apud leon. allat . de consens . eccles. orient . & occident . l. . c. . n. . (b) mabillon . de re diplomat . l. . c. . n. . (c) spelman . concil . p. . (d) isid. orig. l. . c. . (e) mabill . l. . ● . ● . n. ● . (f) propulae . ad monast. angl. (g) papebroch . propyl . ad to. . apr. c. . n. . (h) mabillon . l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . n. . l. . c. . n. . (i) galfrid . l. c. p. . ed. bad. ascens . (k) ll. ed. confess . c. . (l) propyl . ad to. . apr. c. . n. . (m) thorn. chronic. c. . § . (n) monastic . vol. . p. . (o) w. malmsbur . de gest. pontif. l. . p. . (p) chron. s. august . ms. in bibl. a. t. c. (q) malmsbury . de gestis pontif. l. . p. . (r) asserii annales , ms. a.d. . (s) bed. hist. eccl. l. . c. . (t) monastic . vol. . p. , . (v) harpsfield . hist. eccles. l. . c. . (w) usser . primord . p. , . (x) id. p. , &c. (y) euseb. l. . c. . (z) sophron. de script . eccles. (a) chrys. de apost . (b) hippolyt . de apost . (c) spelman . concil . p. . (d) annal. a.d. . n. . (e) church history , l. . ch . . n. . (f) chronic. ms. tit. . (g) monastic . vol. . p. . (h) spelman . concil . p. . (i) tacit. vit . agric. c. . (k) sueton. in vesp. c. . (l) tacit. annal . . c. . (m) camd. britan. p. . (n) britan. p. . (o) brit. p. . (p) r. whit. basing . l. . p. . 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(z) hieron . in catal. (a) baron . a. d. . n. . (b) petav. de doctr. temp. l. . c. . (c) act. . . (d) baron . a. d. . n. . (e) joseph . de bell. iud. l. . c. . (f) tacit. annal . . c. . (g) act. . . (h) massut . de vit . s. pauli , l. . c. . (i) vie de st. paul , l. . p. . (k) massut . ib. c. . (l) baron . a. d. . n. . (m) l. cappell . ad hist. apostol . appen . p. . (n) act. . . (o) act. . , . (p) massut . l. . c. . (q) baron . a. d. . n. . (r) a.d. . n. . (s) act. . . (t) act. . , , . (u) baron . a. d. . n. . (w) baron . a. d. . n. . act. . . (x) act. . . (y) act. . , . (z) act. . ●. . (a) m. velser . rer. vindel. l. . (b) caesar. l. ● . (c) tacit. annal . . c. . . c. . (d) xiphil . p. . (e) tacit. annal . . c. . (f) suct . l. . c. . (g) plin. epist. l. . ep . . (h) tacit. annal . . (i) phil. . . (k) moncaeius , de incunab . regiis eccles. christiana vet. britan . (l) martial . l. . ep . . l. . ep . . (m) alford annal . eccles. a. d. . n. , . (n) antiq. britan . p. . (o) eysengren . cent. . part . . dist . . (p) gal. . . (q) baron . a. d. . § , , , . (r) hieron . in ep. ad gal. c. . (s) pet. de marc. de concord . l. . c. . n. . (t) euseb. hist. l. . c. . (u) epiphan . har. . n. . (w) act. . . (x) baron . a. d. . n. . (y) a.d. . n. . (z) a.d. . n. . (a) vales. in euseb. l. . c. . (b) baron . a.d. . § . (c) rom. . . (d) act. . . (e) tim. . . (f) lactant. de mort. persec . c. . (a) baron . a.d. . n. . (b) dio in sever. (c) tertull. con . judaeos , c. . (d) fordon . l. . c. . (e) maior de gest. scot. l. . c. . (f) xiphil . in severo . (g) fordon . scotichron . l. . c. . (h) hector . boeth . l. . p. . * dempster . apparat . ad hist. scot. l. . c. . hist. eccles. l. . in palladio . (i) baron . a. d. . n. . (k) prosper . cont . collator . in fine . (l) nenn. c. , . (m) justin. dial . cum tryph. p. . (n) euseb. l. . ● . . l. . c. . (o) ruffin . l. . ● . . (p) lactant. de mo●t . persec . c. . (q) bed. l. . c. . (r) gild. § . (s) sulpic. sev. l. . p. . (t) euseb. l. . c. . (u) baron . a.d. . n. . (w) tertull. apol . c. . (x) euseb. l. . c. . l. . c. . c. . l. . c. . c. . (y) lactant. del m●rt . persec . c. . (z) iren. l. . ● . . (a) strab. l. , , . (b) plutarch . in caesare , in crasso . (c) appian . . civil . bell. (d) pet. de marc. epist. ad . h. vales. (e) launoy ep. c. . (f) origen . in ezek. dom. . (g) camd. brit. p. . (h) godwin . de praesul . p. . (i) orig. in luc. c. . 〈…〉 . (k) usser . de primord . c. . (l) pet. de natal . l. . c. . (m) notker . martyrol . calend . junii . (n) baron . a.d. . n. . (o) naucler . chron. vol. . gen. . (p) pantal. de viris illustrib . germ. p. . q m. velser . rer. vindel. l. . (r) tschud . descript . rhaet . c. . (s) munster . cosmograph . l. . p. . (t) ferrar. nova topograph . p. . (u) rom. martyr . non. dec. (w) notker . balbul . calend. iunii . (x) galfr. monu . l. . c. . (y) fordon . scotichron . l. ● . c. . (z) nenn. c. . (a) bed. hist. l. . c. . epit. histor. (b) euseb. l. . c. . (c) baron . a. d. . n. . (d) camd. brit. p. . (e) capitol . in antonin . (f) pausan. in arcad. (g) camd. brit. p. , . (h) jul. capitol . in m. aurel. (i) dio in commodo . (k) catalect . à jof . scalig. ed. (l) usser . de prim. p. , . (m) leland . itiner . p. . (n) burton . on antonin . itiner . p. . (o) camd. brit. p. . p. . (p) somner . antiq . canterb. p. . (q) d. tit . ad . s.c. trebell . l. . (r) notit . imper. occid . c. . (s) camd. brit. p. . (t) selden . mare claus . l. . c. . (u) gild. epist. § . (w) spelman . concil . to. . p. . (x) tacit. annal. . c. . (y) baron . a. d. . n. . (z) baron . in martyr . rom. maii . (a) diod. sic. l. . (b) strabo , l. . (c) mela , l. . c. . (d) tacit. vit . agric. (e) dio in severo . (f) tertul. apolog . c. . euseb. l. . c. . oros. l. . c. . (g) monastie . angl. vol. . p. . (h) bal. de script . cent. . n. . (i) leland . de script . in eluano . (k) iren. l. . c. . (l) caj . de antiq . cantabe . acad . l. . p. . (m) usser . de prim. p. . 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(x) epist. hibern . . (y) ado in chro. (z) augustin . ad . ep. parm. l. . c. . (a) euseb. l. . c. . (b) baron . a. d. ● . n. . (c) hilar. de synod . (d) bed. l. . c. . (e) usser . de prim. p. . (f) camd. brit. p. . (g) bert. pithar . diatr . . c. . p. . (h) apud patric . jun. not. ad epist . clem. (i) cypr. ep. . (k) tertull. de praeser . haeret . c. . (l) mason . de minister . angl. l. . c. . (m) animadvers . on church hist. of brit. p. . (n) le reveil de l'antique tombs de chyndonax . licet . resp. ad quaest. per epist. l. . ep . . (o) pacat. paneg . § . (p) inscrip . , . (q) jac. guther . de veteri iure pontificio , l. . c. . (r) inscript . p. . . . , & . (s) sertor . ursat . monum . patav . l. . § . p. . (t) gruter . inscript . p. . , . (u) gruter . thes. p. . . . . (w) reines . inscript . p. . (x) cicero de arusp. resp. (y) c. theod. tit. de dec. l. , , &c. (z) j. gothofr . ad c. theod. . tit. . de dec. l. , . (a) philostr . vit . sopel . (b) eunap . in chry. (c) julian . ep. . (d) euseb. l. . c. . l. . c. . (e) lactant. de morte persec . c. . (f) tertull. de spectac . c. . (g) alb. piccoli de antiquo iure siculae eccles. c. . (h) tertull. de idololat . c. . (i) cod. afric . c. . (k) c. theod. . tit. . l. . (l) spanhem . de numism . p. . (m) l. . de mun. & honor. (n) cujac . observ . l. . c. . pet. fabr. sen. l. . c. . albasp . obs. l. . c. . seld. ad marm. arund . p. . (o) alb. ruben . de vrb. neocoris , p. . (p) spons voyage , tom. . p. . (q) id. p. . (r) baron . a. d. . n. . (s) pet. de marca de concord . l. . c. . n. . communi copula charitatis & unitate matris ecclesiae catholicae vinculo inhaerentes ad arelatensium civitatem piissimi imperatoris voluntate adducti — quos & dei nostri praesens auctoritas & traditio , ac regula veritatis ita respuit — judice deo , ac matre ecclesia quae suos novit aut comprobat , aut damnati sunt aut repulsi . et utinam , frater dilectissime , ad hoc tantum spectaculum interesses — et te pariter nobiscum judicante coetus noster majori laetitia exultasset . (t) euseb. de vit . const. l. . c. . (a) euseb. de vit . const. l. . c. . (b) baron . a.d. . n. . (c) socrat. l. . c. . (d) euseb. vit . const. l. . c. , . euseb. vit . const. l. . c. . (e) panegyr . max. & constant . (f) lipsius de mag. rom. l. . c. . in notis . (g) eumen. panegyr . constant. § ▪ . (h) lactant. de morte persec . c. . (f) nazar . paneg . n. . (k) phot. cod. . (l) selden . in eutych . p. , . (m) socr. l. . c. . (n) epiph. har . . (o) christian. lup. not. in concil . nicaen . can. (p) baron . a.d. . n. . vide athan. ad solit . vit . agent . p. , , . (q) bud. com. l. gr. p. . (r) tertull. de ma●g . c. . de exhort . castit . c. . (s) cypr. ep. . ed. oxon. (t) hieron . ad rustic . ad gaudent . ad eustoch . (u) vales. not. in socrat. l. . c. . (w) lavie de s. athan. l. . c. . in no● . (x) socrat. l. . c. . (y) concil . chalced . act. . (z) concil . antioch . cap. . chalced. c. . african . c. . regiens . c. . araus . c. . agath . c. . emerit . c. . ferrand . tit . . mart. bracar . tit . . innocent . ad vict. leo ad anastas . hincmar . ep . . c. . (a) theodor. l. . c. . (b) athanas. apol . . p. . vide athanas. ib. p. . (c) at●anas . ap●l . . p. . (d) am. marcel . l. . c. . (e) epiph. haer . . n. . (f) athanas. de sent . dionys. p. . g lup. in canon . part. . p. . (h) concil . chalced . act. . (i) athanas. ad solit . vit . agent . p. . (k) geograph . sacr. patriarch . antio●hen . (l) lupus in can. ephes. p. . (m) leo epist. , , . ed. n●v . (n) morin . exercit . eccles. l. c. . (o) morin . exercit . eccles. l. . ● . . (p) synes . epist. , . (q) novell . . c. . (r) novell . . & . (s) concil . const. c. . (t) phot. biblioth . cod. . (u) soz. l. . c. . (w) pallad . vit . chrys. p. . (x) morin . exercit . eccles. l. . c. . (y) concil . chalced . c. . (z) pet. de marca de concord . l. . c. . n. . (a) id. c. . n. . (b) l. . c. . n. , , , . (c) lup. in canon . part. . p. . p. . (d) leo ep. . c. . (e) hincmar . ep. . c. . (f) lup. ib. p. . (g) concil . antioch . can. . cap. . p. . (h) antiquit. illustr . dissert . . c. . act. . n. . n. . (i) theod. l. . c. , . (k) les occurres de leschassier , p. . (l) baron . a. d. n. . (m) mirae . notit . episcop . p. . (n) ughell . ital. sacr. to. . (o) garn. diurn . rom. c. . p. . (p) schelstraet . n. , &c. (q) h. alexander . de region . suburbic . diss. . p. . (r) holsten . not. ad coll. rom. p. . (s) primau●è p. . (t) holsten . diagrammat . chronog . pontif. damasi . (u) socr. l. . c. . (w) theod. . l. . t. de episc. c. just. de ss . eccl. l. . (x) collect. rom. p. , , . (y) de concord . l. . c. . n. . (z) concil . antioch . c. . act . . n. . p. . (a) collect. rom. p. . p. . (b) collect. rom. p. , . (c) holsten . not. ad collect. rom. p. . (d) antiquit. illustr . dissert . . c. . act . . n. . (e) leo , epist. . c. . ed. nov. (f) schelstr . ib. n. . . g id. n. . h cypr. ep. . ed. ox. i collect. rom. p. . p. . k schelstraet . ib. n. . l not. in coll. rom. p. . m optat. l. . (n) ●●●●lstraet . 〈…〉 , . o diurn . rom. p. . p de concord . l. . c. , , . q garner . app. ad not. c. . diurn . rom. r de concord . l. . c. . n. . s de constantin . patriarch . p. . (t) schelstraet . ib. n. . (u) de concord . l. . c. . n. . (w) not. in leon . epist. . (x) leo. ep. . c. . (y) ep. . (z) ep. . (a) euseb. l. . c. . (b) sirmond . append. ad c. theod. p. . (c) collect. rom. p. . (d) append. p. . (e) schelstraet . ib. n. . (f) ambros. ep. l. . ep . . (g) epist. . ed. erasm. (h) collect. rom. p. . (i) concil . labb . t. . p. . (k) des iugemens canon . des evesques , p. . (l) de antiqui● & majoribus episc . causis , c. . (m) schelstraet . ib. n. , . n diurn . rom. p. . o app. ad cod. theod. p. . p schelstraet . ib. n. . q de antiqui● & majoribus episcoporum causis , p. . p. . p. , &c. , &c. (r) schelstraet . ib. n. . s id. n. . t id. n. . u id. n. . quoniam dispensatio mihi credita est , & ad meum tendit reatum , si paternarum regulae sanctionum , quae in synodo nicaena ad totius ecclesiae regimen , spiritu dei instruente , sunt traditae me , quod absit , connivente violentur . leo ad marcian . aug. ep. . c. . quoniam contra statuta paternorum canonum , quae ante longissimae aetatis annos in vrbe nicaena spiritualibus sunt fundata decretis , nihil cuique audere conceditur . leo ad pulcher. ep. . n. . superbum nimis est & immoderatum , ultra proprios terminos tendere , & antiquitate calcatâ alienum jus velle praeripere , atque ut unius crescat authoritas , tot metropolitanorum impugnare primatus quietísque provinciis , & olim sanctae synodi nicenae moderatione dispositis , bellum novae perturbationis inferre , atque ut venerabilium patrum decreta solvantur , quorundam episcoporum praeferre consensum cui tot annorum series negavit effectum . nam ferre annus hujus conniventiae esse jactatur qua se praedictus episcopus aestimat adjuvari , frustra cupiens id sibi prodesse , quod etiam si quisquam ausus est velle , nullus tamen potuit obtinere . id. ib. nulla sibimet de multiplicatione congregationis synodalia concilia blandiantur , neque trecentis illis decem atque octo episcopis quantumlibet copiosior numerus sacerdotum vel comparare se audeat vel praeferre : cum tanto divinitus privilegio nicaena sit synodus consecrata , ut sive per pauciores sive per plures ecclesiastica iudicia celebrentur omni penitus auctoritate sit vacuum quicquid ab illorum fuerit constitutione diversum . ad anatol . ep. . n. . (w) athanas. apol . . p. . * ad solit . vit . agent . p. . (x) athan. p. . (y) athan. p. . (z) bucher . belg. roman . l. . c. . n. . (a) hilar. de synodis . (b) sulpic. sev. l. . (c) sirmond . advent . c. . (d) berter . diatr . . c. . (e) pallad . vit . chrysost. p. ● . (f) hilar. de synod . p. , . (g) athanas. de synod . (h) phot. bibliot . cod. . (i) euseb. l. . c. . (k) schelstraet . de concil . antioch . dissert . . c. . (l) baron . a. d. . n. . (m) euseb. vit . constant. l. . c. , . (n) athanas. apol . . p. , &c. (o) concil . labb . to. . p. . (p) de con●ord . l. . c. . n. . (q) socr. l. . ● . . (r) baron . a.d. . n. . (s) sozom. l. . c. . (t) hilar. in fragm . l. . p. , . (v) de concord . l. . c. . n. . (w) tom. . dissert . . c. , &c. (x) suipit . sever . l. . (y) basil. ep. . (z) bar. a. d. . n. . n. . (a) christian. lup. in can. sardic . p. . (b) aug. c cresc . l. . c. . (c) nic. fabric . opusc. p. . (a) gild. epist. p. . (b) bed. l. . c. , , . (c) r. & l. ●art . . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . (d) r. & l. part. . p. . p. . part. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . (e) athanas. de synod . arim. & seleuc. p. . (f) theod. l. . c. . (g) socr. l. . c. . (h) soz. l. : c. . (i) theod. l. . c. . (k) athanas. apol . p. . (l) socr. l. . c. . (m) soz. l. . c. . (n) athanas. apol . p. . & synod . arim. & seleuc. p. , . p. (o) ath. p. . (p) soz. l. . c. . (q) theod. l. . c. , . (r) l. . c. . (s) soz. l. . c. . (t) socr. l. . c. . (u) theod. l. . c. . (w) theod. l. . c. . c. . (x) socr. l. . c. . (y) soz. l. . . (z) soz. l. . c. . c. . (a) athan. apol . . p. , . (b) socr. l. . c. . (c) soz. l. . c. . c. . (d) athanas. apol . p. . (e) socr. l. . c. . (f) soz. l. . c. . (g) theod. l. . c. . (h) athanas. apol . p. . (i) soz. l. . c. . (k) athanas. apol . p. . (l) socr. l. . c. . c. . (m) socr. l. . c. . (n) athan. apol . ● . (o) theod. l. . c. . (p) athan. apol . . p. . (q) athanas. apol . . p. , . p. . p. . p. . (r) athan. apol . . p. . (s) athanas. de synod . arim. & seleuc. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . ibid. p. . p. . p. , . (t) socr. l. . c. ● . l. . c. . c. . c. . (u) soz. l. . c. . ● . . (w) athanas. de synod . p. . p. . (x) theod. l. . c. . (y) athan. ad solit . vit . agen . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . ibid. p. . p. . p. , . p. . p. . (z) soz. l. . c. . (a) theod. l. . c. . c. . (b) athanas. p. , . (c) petav. de photin . damn . c. . (d) sirmond . diatr . de anno syrm. synodi . (e) hilar. frag. op . p. . (f) se● . sulpic. l. . p. . 〈◊〉 ad ●onstant . p. . (h) socr. l. . c. . (i) soz. l. . c. . (k) theod. l. . c. . (l) hilar. in fragm . p. . (m) soz. l. . ● . . (n) sever. suipic . l. . (o) soz. l. . c. . (p) athanas. ad afric . p. . (q) socr. l. . c. . (r) sozom. l. . c. . (s) theod. l. . c. . (t) hilar. frag. p. . (u) soz. l. . c. . o theod. l. . c. . (x) hilar. frag. p. . p. . (y) athan. ad afric . p. . (z) hier. c. lucif . (a) soz. l. . c. . (b) socr. l. . c. . (c) hier. ad lucif . (d) ambros. ep. . ad valent. (e) hilar. frag. p. . (f) athanas. ad jov. p. . (g) hieron . ad . marcel . ad euagr . (h) chrysost. tom. . p. . tom. . p. . tom. . p. . (i) sever. sulpic. l. . (k) galfr. mon. l. . c. . (l) euseb. l. . c. . (m) lact. de mort. persec . c. . (n) euseb. l. . c. . (o) ambros. de trad . basilic . (p) euseb. vit . constant. l. . c. . c. . (q) c. theod. . tit . . l. . (r) d. . de rebus dubiis , l. . cum senat. (s) baldvin . de leg. const. p. . (t) c. theod. . tie . . l. , , . (u) better . diatr . . c. . (w) pancirol . de magistr . mancip . c. . (x) ambros. ep. . (y) vincent . barralis , vit . abbat . lerim . (a) vit. sidomï apoll. (b) constant. vit . german . (c) venant . ford l. . c. . (d) hier. ep. . (e) lign . vitae in praefat. (f) athanas. ad solit . p. . (g) theod. l. . c. . (h) am. marcel . l. . c. . (i) id. l. . c. . (k) gild. ep. . § . (l) bed. l. . c. . (m) bal. de scrip. l. . c. . pits , de script . p. . jansen . de haer . pelag. l. . p. . (n) leland . de script . in pelagio . (o) aug. ep . . ad paulin. (p) concil . gal. tom. . p. . a. d. . (q) dempster . hist. eccles. l. . n. . (r) brower . in venant . fortun. l. . p. . (s) de primord . p. . (t) garner . dissert . . in mar. mercat . c. . (u) hier. in ezek . l. . praefat. (w) oros. apol. c. . (x) hier. ad ctesiph . p. . to. . (y) garner . ib. c. . p. . (z) aug. de peccat . meritis & rem . l. . c. , & . de gestis palaest . c. . epist. . (a) aug. de peccat . orig. c. . . (b) leland de scrip. (c) zosim . l. . (d) julian . l. . n. . (e) holsten . in cluver . ital. p. . (f) ruffin . op. p. . (g) marius merc. in co●ment . c. . (h) aug. de peccat . origin . c. . ad bonifac. l. . c. . (i) noris histor. pelag. l. . c. . (k) jansen . hist. pelag. p. . (l) cappell . de appellat . c. . § . (m) petav. dogm . theol. tom. . de haer. pelag. c. . § . garner . diss. . de synodis in causa pelag. natal . alex. saec. . p. . (n) aug. ad bonif . l. . c. , . (o) aug. ep. . (p) prosper . in chron. florent . & diony . cons. (q) concil . gall. tom. . p. . (r) bal. de scrip. brit. cent. . n. (s) pits de scr. aet . . n. ▪ (t) cassian . de incarn . l. . c. . (u) gennad . de script . c. . (w) concil . gall. to. . p. . (x) aug. ep. . (y) aug. serm. . de diversis ▪ (z) gennad . de script . c. . (a) gall. christia . to. . p. . (b) apud bolland . acta sanct. ian. . (c) prosper . c. coll. (d) jansen . hist. pelag. l. . (e) bed. l. . c. . (f) constant. vit . germani . (g) garner . diss . . c. . (h) sirmond . not. in concil . gall. tom. . p. . (i) baron . a. d. . n. . (k) jansen . hist. pelag. l. . (l) prosper . ep. ad aug. inter aug. epist. . (m) concil . gall. tom. . p. . (n) baron . a. d. . n. . (o) voss. hist. pelag. l. . c. . (p) usser . de prim. p. . (q) holsten . not. in martyrol . rom. . (r) baron . not. ad martyrol . . maii. (s) prosper . c. cass. ad fin . (t) rer. franc. l. . p. . (u) doctr. tem. c. . p. . (w) pontac . app. ad chron. p. . (x) sirmond . not. ad sidon . apoll. l. . ep . . (y) ughell . ital. sacr. tom. . p. . (z) sirmond . hist. praedest . c. . (a) annal. eccles. franc. a.d. . n. . . n. . (b) usser . de prim. p. . (c) maug . hist. & chronica dissert . p. . (f) baron . a.d. . n. . (g) matt. west . a. d. . (h) bed. l. . c. . (i) leland . de script . (k) gen. catalog . (l) trith . de script . (m) bal. cent. . n. . (n) pit. de scrip. at. . n. . (o) usser . de prim. p. . p. . (p) vit. sirmond . not. ad sidon . apollin . p. . (q) am. marcel . l. . . . . (r) velser . rer. vindel. l. . (s) hen. de noris , hist. pelag. l. . c. . (t) dempster . hist. eccles. l. . n. . (u) facund . c. mocian . p. . (w) alc. avit . ep. . p. . (x) canis . antiquae lect. to. . p. . (y) de primord . p. . (z) noris hist. pelag. l. . c. . (a) sirmond . not. ad facund . p. . (b) jornand . c. . (c) sidon . apoll. l. . ep . . (d) hist. pelag. l. . p. . (e) acta sanct. ad jan. (f) sidon . apoll. ep. , . l. . & in euchar. (g) ruric . epist. l. . ep . . (h) valent. ad aug. ep. . (i) aug. ad valent . epist. . (k) apud sirmond . hist. praedest . c. . (l) jansen . hist. pelag. l. . p. . l. . c. . (m) praedest . fab. confut . c. . (n) de corrept . & grat. c. . c. . , , . (o) hist. pelag. l. . p. . (p) hist. praedest . c. , . (q) praedest . fab. confut . c. . (r) isid. de viru illustr . c. . (s) hist. pelag. l. . c. . (t) jansen . hist. pelag. l. . (u) collect. vol. . p. . (w) brit. p. . (x) v. monast. anglic. vol. . p. . (y) de primord . p. . (z) de gestis alfred . ad a. d. . (a) polychron . l. . c. . (b) matt. westm. a. d. , & . (c) matt. westm. a. d. . (d) vincent . spec. hist. l. . c. . (e) biblioth . floriac . p. . (f) vit. gild. ib. c. . (g) act. sanct. feb. . vit. s. teliaj . com. praev . § . n. . (h) bed. l. . c. . (i) polychr . l. . c. . (k) collect. vol. . p. . itiner . p. . (l) camd. brit. p. . (m) bonifac. epist. . (n) chron. hirs . a. d. . (o) capit. anseg . l. . c. . l. . t. . (p) lup. epist. . (q) orig. monast. l. . c. . (r) prob. vit . patr. apud bed. to. . (s) jocel . vit . patr. c. . (t) biblioth . mss. labb . tom. . p. . (u) de gestis pont. l. . p. . (w) de primorà . p. . (x) choppin . de dom●n . franc. l. . tit . . limn . jus publ . l. . (y) biblioth . flor. vit . gild. c. . id. c. . (z) diod. sic. l. . (a) de mund. p. . ed. vulcanil . (b) ord. vital . l. . ad a. d. ● . (c) hist. gottesch . c. . (d) antiq. acad. oxon. apol. l. . n. . hist. acad. oxon. l. . p. , , . (e) gall. christian . to. . p. . (f) bed. l. . c. . (g) constant. vit . german . l. . c. ult . (h) usser . de prim. p. . (i) c. theod. l. . tit . . l. . a. d. . (k) c. theod. l. . tit . . l. . (l) vitruv. antiq . l. . c. . (m) de orator . l. . (n) geogr. l. . (o) epiph. de ponder . (p) am. marcell . l. . c. . (q) euseb. l. . c. . 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(y) concil . p. . a relation of a conference held about religion at london, the third of april, by edw. stillingfleet ... and gilbert burnet, with some gentlemen of the church of rome. burnet, gilbert, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing b estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a relation of a conference held about religion at london, the third of april, by edw. stillingfleet ... and gilbert burnet, with some gentlemen of the church of rome. burnet, gilbert, - . stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], , [i.e. ], [ ] p. printed and are to be sold by moses pitt ..., london : . errata: p. [ ]. advertisement: p. [ ]-[ ] at end. reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng lord's supper -- real presence. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion imprimatur . june . . g. jane r. p. d. hen. epis. lond. a sac . dom . a relation of a conference , held about religion , at london , the third of april , . by edw. stillingfleet d.d. and gilbert burnet , with some gentlemen of the church of rome . london , printed and are to be sold by moses pitt , at the angel against the little north-door of s. paul's church , m dc lxxvi . the contents . the preface . the relation of the conference . an addition by n. n. to what was then said . an answer to that addition . a letter demonstrating that the doctrine of the church for the first eight centuries was contrary to transubstantiation . a discourse to show how unreasonable it is to ask for express words of scripture in proving all articles of faith , and that a lust and good consequence from scripture is sufficient . a discourse to shew that it was not only possible to change the belief of the church , concerning the manner of christs presence in the sacrament ; but that it is very reasonable to conclude both that it might be done , and that it was truly done . errata . page . l. . said to to be read at the end of l. . p. . l. . after baptism read ethiop . p. . l. . for cites read explains . p. . l. . for sayes r. has these words . p. . l. . after the body of christ these words are left out , is after some manner his body , and the sacrament of his blood. p. . l. . for must r. to . p. . l. . for use r. prove . p. . l. . for these r. the. p. l. . for yet r. you . p. . for history r. heresy . p. . l. . for remained r. appeared in the world . p. . l. . for which r. who . the rest the reader will correct as he goes through . the preface . tthere is nothing that is by a more universal agreement decried , than conferences about controversies of religion : and no wonder , for they have been generally managed with so much heat and passion , parties being more concerned for glory and victory , than truth ; and there is such foul dealing in the accounts given of them , that it is not strange to see these prejudices taken up against them . and yet it cannot be denied but if men of candor and calmness should discourse about matters of religion , without any other interest than to seek and follow truth , there could not be a more effectual and easy way found for satisfying scruples . more can be said in one hour than read in a day : besides that what is said in a discourse discretely managed , does more appositely meet with the doubtings and difficulties any body is perplexed with , than is possibly to be found in a book : and since almost all books disguise the opinions of those that differ from them , and represent their arguments as weak , and their opinions as odious ; conferences between those of different perswasions do remedy all these evils . but after all the advantages of this way , it must be confessed that for the greater part men are so engaged to their opinions by interest and other ties , that in conferences most persons are resolved before-hand to yield to no conviction , but to defend every thing : being only concerned to say so much as may darken weaker minds that are witnesses , and give them some occasion to triumph ; at least conceal any foil they may have received , by wrapping up some pittiful shift or other , in such words , and pronouncing them with such accents of assurance , and perhaps scorn , that they may seem to come off with victory . and it is no less frequent to see men after they have been so baffled , that all discerning witnesses are ashamed of them , yet being resolved to make up with impudence what is wanting in truth , as a coward is generally known to boast most , where he has least cause ; publish about what feats they have done , and tell every body they see how the cause in their mouth did triumph over their enemies : that so the praise of the defeat given may be divided between the cause and themselves : and though in modesty they may pretend to ascribe all to truth and the faith they contended for , yet in their hearts they desire the greatest part be offered to themselves . all these considerations with a great many more did appear to us , when the lady t. asked us if we would speak with her husband and some others of the church of rome , as well for clearing such scruples as the perpetual converse with those of that religion had raised in the lady ; as for satisfying her husband , of whose being willing to receive instruction she seemed confident . yet being well assured of the ladies great candor and worth , and being willing to stand up for the vindication and honour of our church , whatever might follow on it , we promised to be ready to wait on her at her house upon advertisement : without any nice treating before-hand , what we should confer about . therefore we neither asked who should be there , nor what number , nor in what method , or on what particulars our discourse should run , but went thither carrying only one friend along with us for a witness . if the discourse had been left to our managing , we resolved to have insisted chiefly on the corruptions in the worship of the roman church : to have shewed on several heads that there was good cause to reform these abuses : and that the bishops and pastors of this church , the civil authority concurring , had sufficient authority for reforming it . these being the material things in controversy , which must satisfy every person if well made out , we intended to have discoursed about them ; but being put to answer , we followed those we had to deal with . but that we may not forestal the reader in any thing that passed in the ladies chamber , which he will find in the following account , we had no sooner left her house , but we resumed among our selves all had passed , that it might be written down , what ever should follow , to be published if need were . so we agreed to meet again three days after , to compare what could be written down , with our memories . and having met , an account was read , which did so exactly contain all that was spoken , as far as we could remember , that after a few additions , we all three signed the narrative then agreed to . few days had passed when we found we had need of all that care and caution , for the matter had got wind , and was in every bodies mouth . many of our best friends know how far we were from talking of it , for till we were asked about it , we scarce opened our mouths of it to any person . but when it was said that we had been baffled and foiled , it was necessary for us to give some account of it : not that we were much concerned in what might be thought of us , but that the most excellent cause of our church and religion might not suffer by the misrepresentations of this conference . and the truth was , there was so little said by seven or eight ages was contrary to transubstantiation : which we sent to the lady on the seventeenth of april to be communicated to them . and therefore though our conference was generally talked of , and all persons desired an account of it might be published ; yet we did delay it till we should hear from them . and meeting on the twenty ninth of april with him who is marked n. n. in the account of the conference , i told him , the foolish talk was made by their party about this conference , had set so many on us , who all called to us to print the account of it , that we were resolved on it : but i desired he might any time between and trinity sunday , bring me what exceptions he or the other gentlemen had to the account we sent them , which he confessed he had seen . so i desired that by that day i might have what additions they would make either of what they had said but was forgot by us , or what they would now add upon second thoughts : but longer i told him i could not delay the publishing it . i desired also to know by that time whether they intended any answer to the account we sent them of the doctrine of the fathers about transubstantiation . he confessed he had seen that paper : but by what he then said , it seemed they did not think of any answer to it . and so i waited still expecting to hear from him . at length on the twentieth of may n. n came to me , and told me some of these gentlemen were out of town , and so he would not take on him to give any thing in writing ; yet he desired me to take notice of some particulars he mentioned , which i intreated he would write down that he might not complain of my misrepresenting what he said . this he declined to do , so i told him i would set it down the best way i could , and desired him to call again that he might see if i had written it down faithfully , which he promised to do that same afternoon , and was as good as his word , and i read to him what is subjoined to the relation of the conference , which he acknowledged was a faithful account of what he had told me . i have considered it i hope to the full , so that it gave me more occasion of canvassing the whole matter . and thus the reader will find a great deal of reason to give an entire credit to this relation , since we have proceeded in it with so much candor , that it is plain we intended not to abuse the credulity of any , but were willing to offer this account to the censure of the adverse party ; and there being nothing else excepted against it , that must needs satisfy every reasonable man that all is true that he has here offered to his perusal . and if these gentlemen or any of their friends publish different or contrary relations of this conference , without that fair and open way of procedure which we have observed towards them ; we hope the reader will be so just as to consider that our method in publishing this account has been candid and plain , and looks like men that were doing an honest thing , of which they were neither afraid nor ashamed : which cannot in reason be thought of any surreptitious account that like a work of darkness may be let fly abroad , without the name of any person to answer for it on his conscience or reputation : and that at least he will suspend his belief till a competent time be given to shew what mistake or errors any such relation may be guilty of . we do not expect the reader shall receive great instructions from the following conference , for the truth is , we met with nothing but shufling . so that he will find when ever we came to discourse closely to any head , they very dextrously went off from it to another , and so did still shift off from following any thing was suggested . but we hope every reader will be so just to us as to acknowledge it was none of our fault , that we did not canvass things more exactly , for we proposed many things of great importance to be discoursed on , but could never bring them to fix on any thing . and this did fully satisfy the lady t. when she saw we were ready to have justified our church in all things , but that they did still decline the entering into any matter of weight : so that it appeared both to her and the rest of the company , that what boastings soever they spread about as if none of us would or durst appear in a conference to vindicate our church , all were without ground ; and the lady was by the blessing of god further confirmed in the truth , in which we hope god shall continue her to her lifes end . but we hope the letter and the two discourses that follow , will give the reader a more profitable entertainment . in the letter we give many short hints , and set down some select passages of the fathers , to shew they did not believe transubstantiation . upon all which we are ready to join issue to make good every thing in that paper , from which we believe it is apparent the primitive church was wholly a stranger to transubstantiation . it was also judged necessary by some of our friends that we should to purpose and once for all , expose and discredit that unreasonable demand of shewing all the articles of our church in the express words of scripture : upon which the first discourse was written . and it being found that no answer was made to what n. n. said , to shew that it was not possible the doctrine of transubstantiation could have crept into any age , if those of that age had not had it from their fathers , and they from theirs up to the apostles dayes , this being also since our conference laid home to me by the same person , it was thought fit to give a full account how this doctrine could have been brought into the church , that so a change ●ay appear to have been not only possible , but also probable , and therefore the second discourse was written . if these discourses have not that full finishing and life which the reader would desire , he must regrate his misfortune in this , that the person who was best able to have written them , and given them all possible advantages out of that vast stock of learning and judgment he is master of , was so taken up with other work cut out for him by some of these gentlemens friends of which we shall see an excellent account very speedily , that it was not possible for him to spare so much time for writing these ; so that it fell to the others share to do it : and therefore the reader is not to expect any thing like those high strains of wit and reason which fill all that authors writings , but must give allowance to one that studies to follow him though at a great distance : therefore all can be said from him is , that what is here performed was done by his direction , and approbation , which to some degree will again encourage the reader , and so i leave him to the perusal of what follows . the relation of the conference , monday afternoon the third of april , . d. s. and m. b. went to m. l. t 's . as they had been desired by l. t. to confer with some persons upon the grounds of the church of englands separating from rome , and to shew how unreasonable it was to go from our church to theirs . about half an hour after them , came in s.p.t. mr. w. and three more . there were present seven or eight ladies , three other church-men , and one or two more . when we were all set d. s. said to s.p.t. that we were come to wait on them for justifying our church ; that he was glad to see , we had gentlemen to deal with , from whom he expected fair dealing , as on the other hand he hoped they should meet with nothing from us , but what became our profession . s. p. said , they had protestants to their wives , and there were other reasons too to make them with they might turn protestants ; therefore he desired to be satisfyed in one thing . and so took out the articles of the church , and read these words of the sixth article of the holy scriptures ; [ so that whatsoever is not read therein nor may be proved thereby , is not to be required of any man that it should be believed as an article of faith , or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation . ] then he turned to the twenty eighth article of the lords supper , and read these words ; [ and the mean whereby the body of christ is received and eaten in the supper , is faith : ] and added , he desired to know whether that was read in scripture or not , and in what place it was to be found . d. s. said , he must first explain that article of the scripture ; for this method of proceeding was already sufficiently known and exposed ; he clearly saw the snare they thought to bring him in , and the advantages they would draw from it . but it was the cause of the church he was to defend , which he hoped he was ready to seal with his blood , and was not to be given up for a trick . the meaning of the sixth article was , that nothing must be received or imposed as an article of faith , but what was either expresly contained in scripture , or to be deduced and proved from it by a clear consequence ; so that if in any article of our church which they rejected , he should either shew it in the express words of scripture , or prove it by a clear consequence , he performed all required in this article . if they would receive this , and fix upon it as the meaning of the article , which certainly it was ; then he would go on to the proof of that other article he had called in question . m. w. said , they must see the article in express scripture , or at least in some places of scripture which had been so interpreted by the church , the councils or fathers , or any one council or father . and he the rather pitched on this article , because he judged it the only article , in which all protestants , except the lutherans , were agreed . d. s. said , it had been the art of all the hereticks from the marcionites days , to call for express words of scripture . it was well known the arrians set up their rest on this , that their doctrine was not condemned by express words of scripture ; but that this was still rejected by the catholick church , and that theodoret had written a book , on purpose to prove the unreasonableness of this challenge ; therefore he desired they would not insist on that which every body must see was not fair dealing , and that they would take the sixth article entirely , and so go to see if the other article could not be proved from scripture , though it were not contained in express words . m. b. added , that all the fathers , writing against the arrians , brought their proofs of the consubstantiality of the son , from the scriptures , though it was not contained in the express words of any place . and the arrian council that rejected the words equisubstantial and consubstantial , gives that for the reason , that they were not in the scripture . and that in the council of ephesus s. cyril brought in many propositions against the nestorians , with a vast collection of places of scripture to prove them by ; and though the quotations from scripture contained not those propositions in express words ; yet the council was satisfied from them , and condemned the nestorians . therefore it was most unreasonable , and against the practice of the catholick church , to require express words of scripture , and that the article was manifestly a disjunctive , where we were to chuse whether of the two we would chuse , either one or other . s. p. t. said , or was not in the article . m. b. said , nor was a negative in a disjunctive proposition , as or was an affirmative , and both came to the same meaning . m. w. said , that s. austin charged the heretick to read what he said in the scripture . m. b. said , s. austin could not make that a constant rule , otherwise he must reject the consubstantiality which he did so zealously assert ; though he might in disputing urge an heretick with it on some other account . d. s. said , the scripture was to deliver to us the revelation of god , in matters necessary to salvation ; but it was an unreasonable thing to demand proofs for a negative in it : for if the roman church have set up many doctrines , as articles of faith , without proof from the scriptures , we had cause enough to reject these if there was no clear proofs of them from scripture ; but to require express words of scripture for a negative , was as unjust as if mahomet had said , the christians had no reason to reject him , because there was no place in scripture that called him an impostor . since then the roman church had set up the doctrine of transubstantiation , and the sacrifice of the mass , without either express scripture or good proofs from it , their church had good cause to reject these . m. w. said , the article they desired to be satisfied in was , if he understood any thing , a positive article , and not a negative . m. b. said , the positive article was , that christ was received in the holy sacrament ; but because they had ( as our church judged ) brought in the doctrine of the corporal presence without all reason , the church made that explanation , to cast out the other ; so that upon the matter it was a negative . he added , that it was also unreasonable to ask any one place to prove a doctrine by ; for the fathers in their proceedings with the arrians brought a great collection of places , which gave light to one another , and all concurred to prove the article of faith that was in controversy : so if we brought such a consent of many places of scripture as proved our doctrine , all being joined together , we perform all that the fathers thought themselves bound to do in the like case . d. s. then at great length told them , the church of rome and the church of england differed in many great and weighty points ; that we were come thither to see , as these gentlemen professed they desired , if we could offer good reason for them to turn protestants , and as the ladies professed a desire to be further established in the doctrine of the church of england ; in order to which , none could think it a proper method to pick out some words in the obscure corner of an article , and call for express scriptures for them . but the fair and fit way was to examine whether the church of england had not very good reason to separate from the communion of the church of rome ; therefore since it was for truth , in which oursouls are so deeply concerned , that we enquired , he desired they would join issue to examine either the grounds on which the church of england did separate from the church of rome , or the authority by which she did it : for if there was both good reason for it , and if those who did it , had a sufficient authority to do it , then was the church of england fully vindicated . he did appeal to all that were present , if in this offer he dealt not candidly and fairly , and if all other ways were not shufling . which he pressed with great earnestness , as that only which could satisfy all peoples consciences . m. w. and s. p. t. said , god forbid they should speak one word for the church of rome ; they understood the danger they should run by speaking to that . d. s. said , he hoped they looked on us as men of more conscience and honesty , than to make an ill use of any thing they might say for their church ; that for himself he would die rather than be guilty of so base a thing , the very thought whereof he abhorred . m. b. said , that though the law condemned the endeavouring to reconcile any to the church of rome , yet their justifying their church when put to it , especially to divines , in order to satisfaction which they professed they desired , could by no colour be made a transgression ; and that as we engaged our faith to make no ill use of what should be said , so if they doubted any of the other company , it was s. p. his house , and he might order it to be more private if he pleased . s. p. said , he was only to speak to the articles of the church of england , and desired express words for that article . upon this followed a long wrangling , the same things were said over and over again . in the end . m. w. said they had not asked where that article was read : that they doubted of it , for they knew it was in no place of scripture , in which they were the more confirmed , because none was so much as alledged . d. s. said , upon the terms in the . article he was ready to undertake the . article to prove it clearly by scripture . m. w. said , but there must be no interpretations admitted of . m. b. said , it was certain the scriptures were not given to us , as pariots are taught to speak words ; we were endued with a faculty of understanding , and we must understand somewhat by every place of scripture . now the true meaning of the words being that which god would teach us in the scriptures , which way soever that were expressed is the doctrine revealed there ; and it was to be considered that the scriptures were at first delivered to plain and simple men to be made use of by all without distinction : therefore we were to look unto them as they did ; and so s. paul wrote his epistles , which were the hardest pieces of the new testament , to all in the churches to whom he directed them . m. w. said , the epistles were written upon emergent occasions , and so were for the use of the churches to whom they were directed . d. s. said , though they were written upon emergent occasions , yet they were written by divine inspiration , and as a rule of faith , not only for those churches but for all christians . but as m. w. was a going to speak , m. c. came in , upon which we all rose up till he was set ; so being set , after some civilities , d. s. resumed a little what they were about , and told they were calling for express scriptures to prove the articles of our church by . m. c. said , if we be about scriptures , where is the judge that shall pass the sentence who expounds them aright ; otherwise the contest must be endless . d. s. said , he had proposed a matter that was indeed of weight ; therefore he would first shew , that these of the church of rome were not provided of a sufficient or fit judge of controversies . m. c. said , that was not the thing they were to speak to ; for though we destroyed the church of rome all to nought , yet except we built up our own , we did nothing : therefore he desired to hear what we had to say for our own church ; he was not to meddle with the church of rome , but to hear and be instructed if he could see reason to be of the church of england , for may be it might be somewhat in his way . d. s. said , he would not examine if it would be in his way to be of the church of england , or not , but did heartily acknowledge with great civility that he was a very fair dealer in what he had proposed , and that now he had indeed set us in the right way , and the truth was we were extream glad to get out of the wrangling we had been in before , and to come to treat of matters that were of importance . so after some civilities had passed on both sides , d. s. said , the bishops and pastors of the church of england finding a great many abuses crept into the church , particularly in the worship of god , which was chiefly insisted upon in the reformation , such as the images of the blessed trinity , the worship whereof was set up and encouraged ; the turning the devotions we ought to offer only to christ , to the blessed virgin , the angels and saints ; that the worship of god was in an unknown tongue ; that the chalice was taken from the people , against the express words of the institution ; that transubstantiation and the sacrifice of the mass were set up ; that our church had good reason to judge these to be heinous abuses , which did much endanger the salvation of souls ; therefore being the pastors of the church , and being assisted in it by the civil powers , they had both good reason and sufficient authority to reform the church from these abuses , and he left it to m. c. to chuse on which of these particulars they should discourse . m. b. said , the bishops and pastors having the charge of souls were bound to feed the flock with sound doctrine , according to the word of god. so s. paul when he charged the bishops of ephesus to feed the flock , and to guard against wolves or seducers ; he commends them to the word of gods grace which is the gospel . and in his epistles to timothy and titus wherein the rules of the pastoral charge are set down , he commands timothy , and in him all bishops and pastors , to hold fast the doctrine and form of sound words which he had delivered , and tells him , the scriptures were able to make the man of god perfect . if then the bishops and pastors of this church found it corrupted by any unsound doctrine , or idolatrous worship , they were by the law of god and the charge of souls for which they were accountable , obliged to throw out these corruptions and reform the church ; and this the rather , that the first question proposed in the consecration of a bishop , as it is in the pontifical , is , wilt thou teach these things which thou understandest to be in the scripture , to the people committed to thee , both by thy doctrine and example ? to which he answers : i will. m. c. said , we had now offered as much as would be the subject of many dayes discourse , and he had but few minutes to spare : therefore he desired to be informed what authority those bishops had to judge in matters which they found not only in this church , but in all churches round about them , should they have presumed to judge in these matters . d. s. said , it had been frequently the practice of many nations and provinces to meet in provincial synods , and reform abuses . for which he offered to prove they had both authority and president . but much more in some instances he was ready to shew of particulars that had been defined by general councils , which they only applied to their circumstances ; and this was never questioned but provincial synods might do . m. c. desired , to be first satisfied , by what authority they could cut themselves off from the obedience of the see of rome , in king henry the viii . his days . the pope then was looked on as the monarch of the christian world in spirituals , and all christendom was one church , under one head , and had been so for many ages ; so that if a province or country would cut themselves from the body of this nation ; for instance , wales that had once distinct princes , and say we acknowledge no right william the conquerour had , so that we reject the authority of those descended from him ; they might have the same plea which this our church had . for the day before that act of parliament did pass , after the . of henry the viii . the pope had the authority in spirituals , and they were his subjects in spirituals : therefore their declaring he had none , could not take his authority from him , no more than the long parliament had right to declare by an act , that the soveraign power was in the peoples hands , in pursuance of which they cut off the kings head . d. s. said , the first general councils , as they established the patriarchal power , so the priviledges of several churches were preserved entire to them , as in the case of cyprus ; that the british churches were not within the patriarchal jurisdiction of rome ; that afterwards the bishops of rome striking in with the interests of the princes of europe , and watching and improving all advantages , got up by degrees through many ages into that height of authority , which they managed as ill as they unjustly acquired it , and particularly in england ; where from king william the conqueror his days , as their illegal and oppressive impositions were a constant grievance to the people , so our princes and parliaments were ever put to strugle with them . but to affront their authority , thomas becket , who was a traitour to the law , must be made a saint , and a day kept for him , in which they were to pray to god for mercy through his merits . it continuing thus for several ages , in the end a vigorous prince arises , who was resolved to assert his own authority . and he looking into the oaths the bishops swore to the pope , they were all found in a praemunire by them . then did the whole nation agree to assert their own freedom , and their kings authority . and 't was considerable , that those very bishops , that in qu●en marys days did most cruelly persecute those of the church of england , and advance the interests of rome , were the most zealous assertors and defenders of what was done by king henry the viii . therefore the popes power in england being founded on●●o● just title , and being managed with so much oppression , there was both a full authority and a great deal of reason for rejecting it . and if the major generals , who had their authority from cromwell , might yet have declared for the king , who had the true title , and against the usurper ; so the bishops , though they had sworn to the pope , yet that being contrary to the allegiance they ow'd the king , ought to have asserted the kings authority , and rejected the pope's . m. b. said , it seemed m. c. founded the popes right to the authority he had in england chiefly upon prescrip said to tion . but there were two things to be that : first , that no prescription runs against a divine right . in the clearing of titles among men , prescription is in some cases a good title : but if by the laws of god the civil powers have a supream authority over their subjects , then 〈◊〉 prescription whatsoever can void this . besides , the bishops having full authority and jurisdiction , this could not be bounded or limited by any obedience the pope claimed from them . further , there can be no prescription in this case , where the usurpation has been all along contested and opposed . we were ready to prove , that in the first ages all bishops were accounted brethren , colleagues , and fellow-bishops with the bishop of rome . that afterwards , as he was declared patriarch of the west , so the other patriarchs were equal in authority to him in their several patriarchates . that britain was no part of his patriarchate , but an exempt , as cyprus was . that his power as patriarch was only for receiving appeals , or calling synods , and did not at all encroach on the jurisdiction of other bishops in their sees ; and that the bishops in his patriarchate did think they might separate from him . a famous instance of this was in the sixth century , when the question was about the tria capitula , for which the western bishops did generally stand , and pope vigilius wrote in defence of them ; but iustinian the emperour having drawn him to constantinople , he consented with the fifth council to the condemning them . upon which at his return many of the western bishops did separate from him . and as victor bishop of tunes tells us ( who lived at that time ) that pope was synodically excommunicated by the bishops of africk . it is true , in the eighth century the decretal epistles being forged his pretensions were much advanced : yet his universal jurisdiction was contested in all ages , as might be proved from the known instance of hincmar bishop of rheims , and many more . therefore how strong soever the argument from prescription may be in civil things , it is of no force here . m. c. said , now we are got into a contest of . years story , but i know not when we shall get out of it . he confessed there was no prescription against a divine right , and acknowledged all bishops were alike in their order , but not in their jurisdiction ; as the bishop of oxford was a bishop as well as the archbishop of canterbury , and yet he was inferiour to him in jurisdiction : but desired to know , what was in the popes authority that was so intolerable . d. s. said , that he should only debate about the popes jurisdiction , and to his question , for one particular , that from the days of pope paschal the ii. all bishops swear obedience to the pope , was intolerable bondage . m. c. said , then will you acknowledg that before that oath was imposed the pope was to be acknowledged : adding , that let us fix a time wherein we say the pope began to usurp beyond his just authority , and he would prove by protestant writers that he had as great power before that time . m. b. said , whatever his patriarchal power was , he had none over britain . for it was plain , we had not the christian faith from the roman church , as appeared from the very story of austin the monk. s. p. t. said , did not king lucius write to the pope upon his receiving the christian faith ? m. c. said , he would wave all that , and ask , if the church of england could justifie her for saking the obedience of the bishop of rome , when all the rest of the christian world submitted to it . d. s. said , he wondred to hear him speak so , were not the greek , the armenian , the nestorian , and the abissen churches separated from the roman ? m. c. said , he wondred as much to hear him reckon the nestorians among the churches , that were condemned hereticks . d. s. said , it would be hard for him to prove them nestorians . m. c. asked why he called them so then . d. s. answered , because they were generally best known by that name . m. w. said , did not the greek church reconcile it self to the roman church at the council of florence ? d. s. said , some of their bishops were partly trepanned , partly threatned into it ; but their church disowned them and it both , and continues to do so to this day . m. w. said , many of the greek church were daily reconciled to the church of rome , and many of the other eastern bishops had sent their obedience to the pope . d. s. said , they knew there was enough to be said to these things , that these arts were now pretty well discovered : but he insisted to prove , the usurpations of rome were such as were inconsistent with the supreme civil authority● and shewed the oath in the pontifi●●le by which , for instance , if the pope command a bishop to go to rome , and his king forbid it , he must obey the pope and disobey the king. m. c. said , these things were very consistent , that the king should be supream in civils and the pope in spirituals : so that if the pope commanded a thing that were civil , the king must be obeyed and not he . m. b. said , by the words of the oath the bishops were to receive and help the popes legates , both in coming and going . now suppose the king declared it treason to receive the legate , yet in this case the bishops are sworn to obey the pope , and this was a case that fell out often . d. s. instanced the case of queen mary . m. c. said , if he comes with false mandates , he is not a legate . m. b. said , suppose , as has fallen out an hundred times , he comes with bulls , and well warranted , but the king will not suffer him to enter his dominions , here the bishops must either be traitors or perjured . m. c. said , all these things must be understood to have tacite conditions in them , though they be not expressed , and gave a simile which i have forgot . d. s. said , it was plain , paschal the second devised that oath on purpose to cut off all those reserves of their duty to their princes . and therefore the words are so full and large , that no oath of allegiance was ever conceived in more express terms . m. b. said , it was yet more plain from the words that preceed that clause about legates , that they shall be on no counsel to do the pope any injury , and shall reveal none of his secrets . by which a provision was clearly made , that if the pope did engage in any quarrel or war with any prince , the bishops were to assist the popes as their sworn subjects , and to be faithful spies and correspondents to give intelligence . as he was saying this , l. t. did whisper d. s. who presently told the company , that the ladies at whose desire we came thither , entreated we would speak to things that concerned them more , and discourse on the grounds on which the reformation proceeded ; and therefore since he had before named some of the most considerable ; he desired we might discourse about some of these . m. c. said , name any thing in the roman church that is expresly contrary to scriptures ; but bring not your expositions of scripture to prove it by , for we will not admit of these . m. b. asked if they did not acknowledge that it was only by the mediation of christ , that our sins were pardoned and eternal life given to us . m. c. answered , no question of it at all . m. b. said , then have we not good reason to depart from that church , that in an office of so great and daily use as was the absolution of penitents , after the words of absolution enjoins the following prayer to be used ( which he read out of their ritual ) [ the passion of our lord jesus christ , the merits of the blessed virgin mary and of all the saints , and whatever good thou hast done or evil thou hast suffered , be to thee for the remission of sins , the encrease of grace and the reward of eternal life ] from whence it plainly follows that their church ascribes the pardon of all sins and the eternal salvation of their penitents to the merits of the blessed virgin and the saints , as well as the passion of our blessed saviour . m. c. said , here was a very severe charge put in against their church without any reason , for they believed that our sins are pardoned and our souls are saved only by the merits of jesus christ ; but that several things may concur in several orders or wayes to produce the same effects . so although we are pardoned and saved only through christ , yet without holiness we shall never see god ; we must also suffer whatever crosses he tries us with . so that these in another sense procure the pardon of our sins and eternal salvation . thus in like manner the prayers of the blessed virgin and the saints are great helps to our obtaining these : therefore though these be all joined together in the same prayer , yet it was an unjust charge on their church to say they make them equal in their value or efficiency . m. b. said , the thing he had chiefly excepted against in that prayer was , that these things are ascribed to the merits of the blessed virgin and the saints . now he had only spoken of their prayers , and he appealed ●o all if the natural meaning of these words was not that he charged on them , and the sense the other had offered was not forced . m. c. said , by merits were understood prayers , which had force and merit with god. m. b. said , that could not be , for in another absolution , in the office of our lady , they pray for remission of sins through the merits and prayers of the blessed virgin : so that by merits must be meant somewhat else than their prayers . m. c. said , that as by our prayers on earth we help one anothers souls , so by our giving almes for one another we might do the same ; so also the saints in heaven might be helpful to us by their prayers and merits . and as soon as he had spoken this he got to his feet , and said he was in great hast and much business lay on him that day , but said to d. s. that when he pleased , he would wait on him and discourse of the other particulars at more length . d. s. assured him that when ever he pleased to appoint it , he should be ready to give him a meeting . and so he went away . then we all stood and talked to one another without any great order near half an hour , the discourse being chiefly about the nags-head fable . d. s. apealed to the publick registers , and challenged the silence of all the popish writers all queen elizabeth's reign when such a story was fresh and well known ; and if there had been any colour for it , is it possible they could keep it up , or conceal it . s. p. t. said , all the registers were forged , and that it was not possible to satisfy him in it , no more than to prove he had not four fingers on his hand : and being desired to read doctor bramhall's book about it , he said he had read it six times over , and that it did not satisfie him . m. b. asked him , how could any matter of fact that was a hundred years old be proved , if the publick registers and the instruments of publick notaries were rejected ; and this the more , that this being a matter of fact which could not be done in a corner , nor escape the knowledge of their adversaries who might have drawn great and just advantages from publishing and proving it ; yet that it was never so much as spoken of while that race was alive , is as clear an evidence as can be , that the forgery was on the other side . d. s. did clear the objection from the commission and act of parliament , that it was only for making the ordination legal in england ; since in edward the sixth's time the book of ordination was not joined in the record to the book of common-prayer , from whence bishop bonner took occasion to deny their ordination as not according to law ; and added that saunders who in queen elizabeth's time denied the validity of our ordination , never alledged any such story . but as we were talking freely of this , m. w. said , once or twice , they were satisfied about the chief design they had in that meeting , to see if there could be alledged any place of scripture to prove that article about the blessed sacrament , and said somewhat that looked like the beginning of a triumph . upon which , d. s. desired all might sit down again , that they might put that matter to an issue : so a bible was brought , and d. s. being spent with much speaking , desired . m. b. to speak to it . m. b. turned to the th chap. of s. iohn verse . and read these words , whoso eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood , hath eternal life , and added , these words were , according to the common interpretation of their church , to be understand of the sacramental manducation . this m. w. granted , only m. b. had said , all the doctors understood these words so and m. w. said , that all had not done so , which m. b. did acknowledge , but said it was the received exposition in their church , and so framed his argument . eternal life is given to every one that receives christ in the sacrament , but by faith only we get eternal life : therefore by faith only we receive christ in the sacrament . otherwise he said , unworthy receivers must be said to have eternal life , which is a contradiction , for as such they are under condemnation ; yet the unworthy receivers have the external manducation ; therefore that manducation that gives eternal life with it , must be internal and spiritual ; and that is by faith. a person whose name i know not , but shall henceforth mark him n. n. asked what m. b. meant , by faith only . m. b. said , by faith he mean● such a believing of the gospel , as carried along with it evangelical obedience : by faith only he meant faith as opposite to sense . d. s. asked him if we received christ's body and blood by our senses . n. n. said , we did . d. s. asked which of the senses , his taste , or touch , or sight , for that seemed strange to him . n. n. said , we received christs body with our senses , as well as we did the substance of bread ; for our senses did not receive the substance of bread ; and did offer some things to illustrate this both from the aristotelian and cartesian hypothesis . d. s. said , he would not engage in that subtlety which was a digression from the main argument , but he could not avoid to think it a strange assertion to say we received christ by our senses , and yet to say he was so present there that none of our senses could possibly perceive him . but to the main argument . m. w. denied the minor , that by faith only we have eternal life . m. b. proved it thus , the sons of god have eternal life , but by faith only we become the sons of god : therefore by faith only we had eternal life . m. w. said , except he gave them both major and minor in express words of scripture , he would reject the argument . m. b. said , that if he did demonstrate that both the propositions of his argument were in the strictest construction possible equivalent to clear places of scripture , then his proofs were good ; therefore he desired to know which of the two propositions he should prove , either that the sons of god have eternal life , or that by faith only we are the sons of god. m. w. said , he would admit of no consequences , how clear soever they seemed , unless he brought him the express words of scripture , and asked if his consequences were infallible . d. s. said , if the consequence was certain , it was sufficient ; and he desired all would take notice that they would not yield to clear consequences drawn from scripture , which he thought ( and he believed all impartial people would be of his mind ) was as great an advantage to any cause , as could be desired : so we laid aside that argument , being satisfied that the article of our church , which they had called in question , was clearly proved from scripture . then n. n. insisted to speak of the corporal presence , and desired to know upon what grounds we rejected it . m. b. said , if we have no better reason to believe christ was corporally present in the sacrament , than the jews had to believe that every time they did eat their pascha , the angel was passing by their houses , and smiting the first born of the aegyptians ; then we have no reason at all ; but so it is that we have no more reason . n. n. denied this , and said we had more reason . m. b. said , all the reason we had to believe it was , because christ said , this is my body ; but moses said of the paschal festivity , this is the lords passover ; which was always repeated by the jews in that anniversary . now the lords passover was the lords passing by the israelites when he slew the first-born of aegypt . if then we will understand christs words in the strictly literal sense , we must in the same sense understand the words of moses : but if we understand the words of moses in any other sense , as the commemoration of the lords passover , then we ought to understand christs words in the same sense . the reason is clear ; for christ being to substitute this holy sacrament in room of the jewish pascha , and he using in every thing , as much as could agree with his blessed designs , forms as nea● the jewish customes as could be , there is no reason to think he did use the words , this is my body , in any other sense than the jews did this is the lords passover . n. n. said , the disparity was great . first , christ had promised before-hand he would give them his body . secondly , it was impossible the lamb could be the lords passover in the literal sense , because an action that had been past some hundred of years before could not be performed every time they did eat the lamb , but this is not so . thirdly , the jewish church never understood these words literally , but the christian church hath ever understood these words of christ literally . nor is it to be imagined that a change in such a thing was possible , for how could any such opinion have crept in , in any age , if it had not been the doctrine of the former age ? m. b. said , nothing he had alledged was of any force . for the first , christ's promise imported no more than what he performed in the sacramental institution . if then it be proved that by saying , this is my body , be only meant a commemoration , his promise must only relate to his death commemorated in the sacrament . to the second , the literal meaning of christ's words is as impossible as the literal meaning of moses's words ; for besides all the other impossibilities that accompany this corporal presence , it is certain christ gives us his body in the sacrament as it was given for us , and his blood as it was shed for us , which being done only on the cross above years ago , it is as impossible that should be literally given at every consecration , as it was that the angel should be smiting the aegyptians every paschal festivity . and here was a great mistake they went on securely in ; that the body of christ we receive in the sacrament , is the body of christ as he is now glorified in heaven : for by the words of the institution it is clear , that we receive his body as it was given for us when his blood was shed on the cross , which being impossible to be reproduced now , we only can receive christ by faith. for his third difference , that the christian church ever understood christ's words so , we would willingly submit to the decision of the church in the first ages . could any thing be more express than theodoret , who arguing against the eutychians that the humanity and divinity of christ were not confounded nor did depart from their own substance , illustrates it from the eucharist in which the elements of bread and wine do not depart from their own substance . m. w. said , we must examine the doctrine of the fathers not from some occasional mention they make of the sacrament , but when they treat of it on design and with deliberation . but to theodoret he would oppose s. cyrill of jerusalem , who in his fourth mist. catechism saies expresly , though thou see it to be bread , yet believe it is the flesh and the blood of the lord jesus ; doubt it not since he had said , this is my body . and for a proof , instances christs changing the water into wine . d. s. said , he had proposed a most excellent rule for examining the doctrine of the fathers in this matter , not to canvase what they said in eloquent and pious treaties or homilies to work on peoples devotion , in which case it is natural for all persons to use high expressions ; but we are to seek the real sense of this mystery when they are dogmatically treating of it and the other mysteries of religion where reason and not eloquence takes place . if then it should appear that at the same time both a bishop of rome and constantinople , and one of the greatest bishops in africk did in asserting the mysteries of religion go downright against transubstantiation , and assert that the substance of the bread and wine did remain ; he hoped all would be satisfied the fathers did not believe as they did . m. w. desired we would then answer the words of cyrill . m. b. said , it were a very unreasonable thing to enter into a verbal dispute about the passages of the fathers , especially the books not being before us ; therefore he promised an answer in writing to the testimony of s. cyrill . but now the matter was driven to a point , and we willingly underook to prove that for eight or nine centuries after christ the fathers did not believe transubstantiation , but taught plainly the contrary : the fathers generally call the elements bread and wine after the consecration , they call them mysteries , types , figures , symbols , commemorations and signs of the body and blood of christ : they generally deliver that the wicked do not receive christ in the sacrament , which shews they do not believe transubstantiation . all this we undertook to prove by undenyable evidences within a very few days or weeks . m. w. said , he should be glad to see it . d. s. said , now we left upon that point which by the grace of god we should perform very soon ; but we had offered to satisfy them in the other grounds of the separation from the church of rome ; if they desired to be further informed we should wait on them when they pleased . so we all rose up and took leave , after we had been there about three hours . the discourse was carried on , on both sides , with great civility and calmness , without heat or clamour . this is as far as my memory after the most fixed attention when present , and careful recollection since , does suggest to me , without any biass or partiality , not having failed in any one material thing as far as my memory can serve me ; this i declare as i shall answer to god. signed as follows , gilbert burnet . april . . this narrative was read , and i do hereby attest the truth of it . edw. stillingfleet . being present at the conference april . . i do , according to my best memory , judge this a just and true narrative thereof . will. nailor . the addition which n. n. desired might be subjoined to the relation of the conference if it were published , but wished rather that nothing at all might be made publick that related to the conference . the substance of what n. n. desired me to take notice of was , that our eating christ's flesh and drinking his blood doth as really give everlasting life , as almsgiving , or any other good work● gives it , where the bare external action , if separated from a good intention and principle is not acceptable to god. so that we must necessarily understand these words of our saviour with this addition of worthily , that whoso eats his flesh and drinks his blood in the sacrament worthily hath everlasting life ; for , he said , he did not deny but the believing the death of christ was necessary in communicating , but it is not by faith only we receive his body and blood. for as by faith we are the sons of god , yet it is not only by faith but also by baptism that we become the sons of god ; so also christ saith , he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved ; yet this doth not exclude repentance and amendment of life from being necessary to salvation : therefore the universality of the expression , whoso eats , does not exclude the necessity of eating worthily that we may have everlasting life by it . and so did conclude that since we believe we have all our faith in the holy scriptures , we must prove from some clear scriptures by arguments that consist of a major and minor that are either express words of scripture or equivalent to them , that christ was no otherwise present in the sacrament than spiritually , as he is received by faith. and added that it was impertinent to bring impossibilities either from sense or reason against this , if we brought no clear scriptures against it . to this he also added , that when d. s. asked him by which of his senses he received christ in the sacrament , he answered , that he might really receive christ's body at his mouth , though none of his senses could perceive him , as a ●ole or pill is taken in a sirrup or any other liquor , so that i really swallow it over though my senses do not tast it ; in like manner christ is received under the accidents of bread and wine , so that though our senses do not perceive it , yet he is really taken in at our mouth and goes down into our stomach . answer . having now set down the strength of n.n. his plea upon second thoughts , i shall next examine it . the stress of all lies in this , whether we must necessarily supply the words of christ with the addition of worthily : he affirms it , i deny it , for these reasons . christ in this discourse was to shew how much more excellent his doctrine was than was moses his law , and that moses gave manna from heaven to nourish their bodies , notwithstanding which they died in the wilderness : but christ was to give them food to their souls , which if they did eat they should never die , for it should give them life . where it is apparent the bread and nourishment must be such , as the life was , which being internal and spiritual , the other must be such also . and verse . he clearly explains how that food was received , he that believeth on me hath everlasting life . now having said before that this bread gives life , and here saying that believing gives everlasting life , it very reasonably follows that believing was the receiving this food . which is yet clearer from verse . where the jews having desired him evermore to give them that bread , he answers verse . i am the bread of life , he that comes to me shall never hunger , and he that believeth on me shall never thirst . which no man that is not strangely prepossessed , can consider , but he must see it is an answer to their question , and so in it he tells them that their coming to him and believing was the mean of receiving that bread . and here it must be considered that christ calls himself bread , and says that a man must eat thereof , which must be understood figuratively ; and if figures be admitted in some parts of that discourse , it is unjust to reject the applying the same figures to other parts of it . in fine , christ tells them this bread was his flesh which he was to give for the life of the world , which can be applied to nothing but the offering up himself on the cross. this did , as it was no wonder , startle the jews , so they murmured , and said , how can this man give us his flesh to eat ? to which christs answer is so clear , that it is indeed strange there should remain any doubting about it . he first tells them , except they eat the flesh and drink the blood of the son of man they had no life in them . where on the way mark , that drinking the blood is as necessary as eating the flesh ; and these words being expounded of the sacrament , cannot but discover them extreamly guilty , who do not drink the blood . for suppose the doctrine of the bloods concomitating the flesh were true ; yet even in that case they only eat the blood , but cannot be said to drink the blood . but from these words it is apparent christ must be speaking chiefly if not only of the spiritual communicating : for otherwise no man can be saved , that hath not received the sacrament . the words are formal and positive , and christ having made this a necessary condition of life , i see not how we dare promise life to any that hath never received it . and indeed it was no wonder that those fathers who understood these words of the sacrament , appointed it to be given to infants immediately after they were baptized ; for that was a necessary consequence that followed this exposition of our saviours words . and yet the church of rome will not deny , but if any die before he is adult , or if a person converted be in such circumstances that it is not possible for him to receive the sacrament , and so dies without it , he may have everlasting life : therefore they must conclude that christs flesh may be eaten by faith even without the sacrament . again in the next verse he says , whoso eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life . these words must be understood in the same sense they had in the former verse , they being indeed the reverse of it . therefore since there is no addition of worthily necessary to the sence of the former verse , neither is it necessary in this . but it must be concluded christ is here speaking of a thing without which none can have life : and by which all have life : therefore when ever christs flesh is eaten , and his blood is drunk , which is most signally done in the sacrament , there eternal life must accompany it ; and so these words must be understood , even in relation to the sacrament , only of the spiritual communicating by faith. as when it is said a man is a reasonable creature : though this is said of the whole man , body and soul ; yet when we see that upon the dissolution of soul and body no reason or life remains in the body , we from thence positively conclude the reason is seated only in the soul ; though the body has organs that are necessary for its operations : so when it is said we eat christs flesh and drink his blood in the sacrament which gives eternal life ; there being two things in it , the bodily eating and the spiritual communicating ; though the eating of christs flesh is said to be done in the worthy receiving , which consists of these two , yet since we may clearly see the bodily receiving may be without any such effects , we must conclude that the eating of christs flesh is only done by the inward communicating : though the other , that is the bodily part , be a divine organ , and conveyance of it . and as reason is seated only in the soul , so the eating of christs flesh must be only inward and spiritual , and so the mean by which we receive christ in the supper is faith . all this is made much clearer by the words that follow , my flesh is meat indeed , and my blood is drink indeed . now christs flesh is so eaten , as it is meat ; which i suppose none will question , it being a prosecution of the same discourse . now it is not meat as taken by the body , for they cannot be so gross as to say , christs flesh is the meat of our body : therefore since his flesh is only the meat of the soul and spiritual nourishment , it is only eaten by the soul and so received by faith . christ also says , he that eateth my flesh and drinks my blood dwells in him and he in him . this is the definition of that eating and drinking he had been speaking of ; so that such as is the dwelling in him , such also must be the eating of him : the one therefore being spiritual , inward , and by faith , the other must be such also . and thus it is as plain as can be , from the words of christ , that he spake not of a carnal or corporal , but of a spiritual eating of his flesh by faith . all this is more confirmed by the key our saviour gives of his whole discourse , when the iews were offended for the hardness of his sayings , it is the spirit that quickneth ( or giveth the life he had been speaking of ) the flesh profiteth nothing , the words i speak unto you are spirit and they are life . from which it is plain he tells them to understand his words of a spiritual life and in a spiritual manner . but now i shall examine n.n. his reasons to the contrary . his chief argument is , that when eternal life is promised upon the giving of alms , or other good works , we must necessarily understand it with this proviso , that they were given with a good intention and from a good principle : therefore we must understand these words of our saviour to have some such proviso in them . all this concludes nothing . it is indeed certain when any promise is past upon an external action , such a reserve must be understood . and so s. paul tells us , if he bestowed all his goods to feed the poor and had no charity , it profited him nothing . and if it were clear our saviour were here speaking of an external action , i should acknowledge such a proviso must be understood ; but that is the thing in question , and i hope i have made it appear our saviour is speaking of an internal action , and therefore no such proviso is to be supposed . for he is speaking of that eating of his flesh , which must necessarily and certainly be worthily done , and so that objection is of no force . he must therefore prove that the eating his flesh is primarily and simply meant of the bodily eating in the sacrament ; and not only by a denomination , from a relation to it : as the whole man is called reasonable , though the reason is seated in the soul only . what he says to shew that by faith only we are not the sons of god , since by baptism also we are the sons of god , is not to the purpose : for the design of the argument , was to prove that by faith only we are the sons of god , so as to be the heirs of eternal life . now the baptism of the adult ( for our debate runs upon those of ripe years and understanding ) makes them only externally , and sacramentally the sons of god : for the inward and vital sonship follows only upon faith. and this faith must be understood of such a lively and operative faith , as includes both repentance and amendment of life . so that when our saviour says , he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved , that believing is a complex of all evangelical graces : from which it appears , that none of his reasons are of force enough to conclude that the universality of these words of christ ought to be so limited and restricted . for what remains of that which he desired might be taken notice of , that we ought to prove that christs body and blood was present in the sacrament only spiritually and not corporally by express scriptures , or by arguments whereof the major and minor were either express words of scripture , or equivalent to them : it has no force at all in it . i have in a full discourse examined all that is in the plea concerning the express words of scripture : and therefore shall say nothing upon that head , referring the reader to what he will meet with on that subject afterwards . but here i only desire the reader may consider our contest in this particular is concerning the true meaning of our saviours words , this is my body ; in which it is very absurd to ask for express words of scripture , to prove that meaning by . for if that be'setled on , as a necessary method of proof , then when other scriptures are brought to prove that to be the meaning of these words ; it may be asked how can we prove the true meaning of that place we bring to prove the meaning of this by ? and so by a progress for ever we must contend about the true meaning of every place . therefore when we enquire into the sense of any controverted place : we must judge of it by the rules of common sense and reason of religion and piety , and if a meaning be affixed to any place contrary to these , we have good reason to reject it . for we knowing all external things only by our senses , by which only the miracles & resurrection of christ could be proved , which are the means god has given us to converse with , and enjoy his whole creation ; and the evidence our senses give being such , as naturally determines our perswasions so that after them we cannot doubt ; if then a sense be offered to any place of scripture that does overthrow all this , we have sufficient reason on that very account to reject it . if also any meaning be fastened on a place of scripture that destroyes all our conceptions of things , is contrary to the most universally received maxims , subverts the notions of matter and accidents , and in a word confounds all our clearest apprehensions ; we must also reject every such gloss , since it contradicts the evidence of that which is gods image in us . if also a sense of any place of scripture be proposed that derogates from the glorious exaltation of the humane nature of our blessed saviour , we have very just reasons to reject it , even though we could bring no confirmation of our meaning from express words of scripture . therefore this dispute being chiefly about the meaning of christ's words , he that shews best reasons to prove that his sense is consonant to truth , does all that is necessary in this case . but after all this , we decline not to shew clear scriptures for the meaning our church puts on these words of christ. it was bread that christ took , blessed , brake , and gave his disciples . now the scripture calling it formally bread , destroyes transubstantiation . christ said , this is my body , which are declarative and not imperative words , such as , let there be light , or be thou whole . now all declarative words suppose that which they affirm to be already true , as is most clear ; therefore christ pronounces what the bread was become by his former blessing , which did sanctity the elements : and yet after that blessing it was still bread . again , the reason and end of a thing , is that which keeps a proportion with the means toward it ; so that christs words do this in remembrance of me , shew us that his body is here only in a vital and living commemoration and communication of his body and blood. further , christ telling us , it was his body that was given for us , and his blood shed for us , which we there receive ; it is apparent , he is to be understood present in the sacrament ; not as he is now exalted in glory , but as he was on the cross when his blood was shed for us . and in fine , if we consider that those to whom christ spake were jews , all this will be more easily understood : for it was ordinary for them to call the symbole by the name of the original it represented . so they called the cloud between the cherubims god and iehovah according to these words , o thou that dwellest between the cherubims : and all the symbolical apparitions of god to the patriarchs and the prophets were said to be the lord appearing to them . but that which is more to this purpose is , that the lamb that was the symbole and memorial of their deliverance out of aegypt , was called the lords passover . now though the passover then was only a type of our deliverance by the death of christ , yet the lamb was in proportion to the passover in aegypt , as really a representation of it as the sacrament is of the death of christ. and it is no more to be wondered that christ called the elements his body and blood , though they were not so corporally , but only mystically , and sacramentally ; than that moses called the lamb the lords passover . so that it is apparent it was common among the jews to call the symbole and type by the name of the substance and original . therefore our saviours words are to be understood in the sense and stile that was usual among these to whom he spake , it being the most certain rule of understanding any doubtful expression , to examine the ordinary stile and forms of speech of that age , people , and place , in which such phrases were used . this is signally confirmed by the account which maimonides gives us , of the sense in which eating and drinking is oft taken in the scriptures . first he saies it stands in its natural signification , for receiving bodily food : then because there are two things done in eating , the first is the destruction of that which is eaten , so that it loseth its first form ; the other is the encrease and nourishment of the substance of the person that eats : therefore he observes that eating has two other significations in the language of the scriptures . the one is destruction and desolation : so the sword is said to eat , or as we render it to devour ; so a land is said to eat its inhabitants , and so fire is said to eat or consume . the other sense it is taken in does relate to wisdom , learning , and all intellectual apprehensions , by which the form ( or soul ) of man is conserved from the perfection that is in them , as the body is preserved by food . for proof of this he cites divers places out of the old testament , as isai. . . come buy and eat , and prov. . . and prov. . . he also adds that their rabbins commonly call wisdom , eating ; and cites some of their sayings , as come and eat flesh in which there is much fat , and that when ever eating and drinking is in the book of the proverbs , it is nothing else but wisdom or the law. so also wisdom is often called water , isai. . . and he concludes that because this sense of eating occurs so often , and is so manifest and evident , as if it were the primary and most proper signification of the word , therefore hunger and thirst do also stand for a privation of wisdom and vnderstanding , as amos . . to this he also refers that of thirsting , psalm . . . and isai. . . and ionathan paraphrasing these words , ye shall draw water out of the wells of salvation , renders it , ye shall receive a new doctrine with joy from the select ones among the iust , which is further confirmed from the words of our saviour , iohn . . and from these observations of the i earnedest and most judicious among all the rabbins , we see that the iewes understood the phrases of eating and eating of flesh in this spiritual and figurative sense of receiving wisdom and instruction . so that this being an usual form of speech among them , it is no strange thing to imagin how our saviour being a iew according to the flesh , and conversing with iews did use these terms and phrases in a sense that was common to that nation . and from all these set together we are confident we have a great deal of reason , and strong and convincing authorities from the scriptures , to prove christs words , this is my body , are to be understood spiritually , mystically , and sacramentally . there remains only to be considered what weight there is in what n. n. says . he answered to d. s. that christ might be received by our senses though not perceived by any of them , as a bole is swallowed over , though our taste does not relish or perceive it . that great man is so very well furnished with reason and learning to justify all he says , that no other body needs interpose on his account . but he being now busie , it was not worth the giving him the trouble , to ask how he would reply upon so weak an answer , since its shallowness appears at the first view : for is there any comparison to be made between an object that all my senses may perceive , if i have a mind to it , that i see with mine eyes , and touch , and feel in my mouth , and if it be too big , and my throat too narrow i will feel stick there ; but only to guard against its offensive taste , i so wrap or conveigh it , that i relish nothing ungrateful in it : and the receiving christ with my senses , when yet none of them either do , or can , though applied with all possible care , discern him ? so that it appears d. s. had very good reason to say , it seemed indeed strange to him , to say , that christ was received by our senses , and yet was so present that none of our senses can perceive him : and this answer to it is but meer trifling . here follows the paper we promised , wherein an account is given of the doctrine of the church for the first eight centuries in the point of the sacrament , which is demonstrated to be contrary to transubstantiation , written in a letter to my lady t. madam , your ladiship may remember , that our meeting at your house on the third instant ended with a promise we made , of sending you such an account of the sense of the fathers for the first six ages , as might sufficiently satisfie every impartial person , that they did not believe transubstantiation . this promise we branched out in three propositions : first that the fathers did hold , that after the consecration the elements of bread and wine did remain unchanged in their substance . the second , was , that after the consecration they called the elements the types , the antitypes , the mysteries , the symboles , the signs , the figures , and the commemorations of the body and blood of christ ; which certainly will satisfie every unprejudiced person , that they did not think the bread and wine were annihilated , and that in their room , and under their accidents , the substance of the body and blood of christ was there . thirdly , we said , that by the doctrine of the fathers the unworthy receivers got not the body and the blood of christ ; from which it must necessarily follow , that the substance of his body and blood is not under the accidents of bread and wine : otherwise all these that unworthily receive them eat christs body and blood. therefore to discharge our selves of our promise , we shall now give your ladiship such an account of the doctrine of the fathers on these heads , as we hope shall convince those gentlemen , that we had a good warrant for what we said . the first proposition is , the fathers believed that after the consecration the elements were still bread and wine . the proofs whereof we shall divide into three branches : the first shall be , that after the consecration they usually called them bread and wine . secondly , that they expresly assert , that the substance of bread and wine remained . thirdly , that they believed the sacramental bread and wine did nourish our bodies . for proof of the first , we desire the following testimonies be considered : iustin martyr says , these who are called deacons , distribute the blessed bread and wine and water to such as are present , and carry it to the absents , and this nourishment is by us called the eucharist . and a little after , we do not receive these as common bread , or common drink ; for as by the word of god iesus christ our saviour being made flesh , had both flesh and blood for our salvation , so we are taught , that that food by which our blood and flesh are nourished , by its change , being blessed by the word of prayer which he gave us , is both the flesh and the blood of the incarnate jesus . thus that martyr that wrote an hundred and fifty years after christ , calls the elements bread and wi●e , and the nourishment which being changed into flesh and blood nourishes them . and saying , it is not common bread and wine , he says , that it was still so in substance ; and his illustrating it with the incarnation , in which the humane nature did not lose nor change its substance in its union with the eternal word , shews , he thought not the bread and wine lost their substance when they became the flesh and blood of christ. the next witness is irenaeus , who writing against the valentinians , that denied the ●ather of our lord jesus to be the creator of the world , and also denied the resurrection of the body ; confutes both these heresies by arguments drawn from the eucharist . to the first he says , if there be another creator than the father of our lord , then our offering creatures to him , argues him covetous of that which is not his own , and so we reproach him rather than bless him . and adds , how does it appear to any of them , that that bread over which thanks are given , is the body of his lord , and the cup of his blood , if he be not the son of the creator . and he argues against their saying , our bodies should not rise again that are fed by the body and blood of christ : for says he , that bread which is of the earth , having had the invocation of god over it , is no more common bread , but the eucharist , consisting of two things , an earthly and an heavenly ; so our bodies that receive the eucharist are no more corruptible , having the hope of the resurrection . tertullian proving against marcion , that christ was not contrary to the creator , among other proofs which he brings to shew , that christ made use of the creatures , and neither rejected water , oil , milk , or honey , he adds , neither did he reject bread , by which he represents his own body . and further says , christ calls bread his body , that from thence you may understand , that he gave the figure of his body to the bread. origen says , we eat of the loaves set before us , with thanksgiving and prayers over what is given to us , which by the prayer are become a certain holy body , that sanctifies those who use them with a sound purpose . saint cyprian says , christ calls the bread that was compounded of many grains joined together , his body , to shew the union of our people which he bore upon himself ; and calls the wine which is pressed out of many grapes and berries , his blood : he signifies our flock which is joined together in the mixture of an united multitude . and writing against those who only put water in the chalice , he says , since christ said , i am the true vine , the blood of christ is not only water but wine , neither can we see his blood by which we are redeemed and quickened in the chalice when wine is not in it , by which the blood of christ is shewed . and that whole epistle is all to the same purpose . epiphanius says , christ in the supper rose and took these things , and having given thanks said , this is my , &c. now we see it is not equal to it , nor like it , neither to his incarnate likeness , nor his invisible deity , nor the lineaments of his members , for it is round , and without feeling as to its vertue . and this he says , to shew how man may be said to be made after the image of god , though he be not like him . gregory nyssen , shewing how common things may be sanctified , as water in baptism , the stones of an altar and church dedicated to god ; he adds , so also bread in the beginning is common , but after the mystery has consecrated it , is said to be , and is the body of christ ; so the mystical oyl , so the wine before the blessing , are things of little value , but after the sanctification of the spirit , both of them work excellently . he also adds , that the priest by his blessing is separated and sanctified ; from which it appears , he no more believed the change of the substance of the bread and wine , than of the consecrated oyl , the altar , or the priest. ambrose speaking of bread , which was ashers blessing , says , this bread christ gave his apostles , that they might divide it to the people that believed , and gives it to us to day , which the priest consecrates in his words , this bread is made the food of the saints . st. chrysostome on these words , the bread which we break , it is not the communion of the body of christ ? says , what is the bread ? the body of christ. what are they made who take it ? the body of christ. from whence it appears , he thought the bread was so the body of christ , as the worthy receivers are , which is not by the change of their substance , but by the sanctification of their natures . st. jerome says , let us hear the bread which christ brake and gave his disciples , to be the body of our lord. and he says , after the typical pascha was fulfilled , christ took bread that comforts the heart of man , and went to the true sacrament of the pascha , that as melchifedeck in the figure had done offering bread and wine , so he might also represent the truth of his body and blood. where he very plainly calls the elements bread and wine , and a representation of christs body and blood. saint austin ( as he is cited by fulgentius de baptismo and divers others ) , in his exhortation to these that were newly baptized , speaking of this sacrament , says , that which you see is the bread , and the cup which your eyes witness ; but that which your faith must be instructed in , is , that the bread is the body of christ , and the cup is his blood. and then he proposes the objection , how that could be ? and answers it thus , these things are therefore called sacraments , because one thing is seen and another is understood ; what you see has a bodily appearance , but what you understand has a spiritual fruit ; and if you will understand the body of christ , hear what the apostle says to the faithful , ye are the body of christ and his members : if therefore you be the body and members of christ , your mystery is placed on the table of the lord , and you receive the mystery of the lord. and at large prosecutes this , to shew how the faithful are the body of christ , as the bread is made up of many grains ; from whence it appears , that he believed , that the consecrated elements were still bread and wine . and speaking of st. pauls breaking bread at troas , he says , being to break bread that night , as it is broken in the sacrament of the body of christ. he also says , the eucharist is our daily bread ; but let us so receive it , that not only our belly but our mind be refreshed by it . besides in a great many places st. austin calls the eucharist , the sacrament of bread and wine . and speaking of things made use of to signifie somewhat else , he adds for one , the bread that is made for this , is consumed in our receiving the sacrament . he also says , to eat bread is in the new testament the sacrifice of christians . he likewise says , both judas and peter received a part of the same bread out of the same hand of our lord. and thus from twelve witnesses that are beyond all exception , it does appear , that the fathers believed the elements to be still bread and wine after the consecration . we have not brought any proofs from the fathers that are less known or read , for then we must have swelled up this paper beyond what we intend it . one thing is so considerable , that we cannot forbear to desire it be taken notice of , and that is , that we see those great fathers and doctors of the church call the consecrated elements , without any mincing of the matter , bread and wine ; but when they call it the body and blood of christ , they often use some mollifying and less hardy expression . so st. austin says , almost all call the sacrament his body . and again says , we call that only the body blood of christ , which being taken of the fruits of the earth , and consecrated by the mystical prayer , we rightly receive for our spiritual health in the commemoration of the passion of our lord for us . and he says , after some sort the sacrament of the body of christ is his body , and the sacrament of his blood is the blood of christ. and also says , he carried himself in his own hands in some sort , when he said , this is my body . st. chrysostome says , the bread is thought worthy to be called the body of our lord. and on these words , the flesh lusteth against the spirit , among the improper acceptions of flesh , says , the scriptures use to call the mysteries by the name of flesh , and sometimes the whole church , saying , she is the body of christ. tertullian says , christ calls the bread his body , and a little after , he names the bread his body . isidore hispal , says , we call this after his command the body and blood of christ , . which being made of the fruits of the earth , is sanctified and made a sacrament . theodoret says , in the giving of the mysteries christ called the bread his body , and the mixed cup his blood. and says , he who called his natural body corn and bread , and also calls himself a vine , likewise honoured these visible symboles with the names of his body and blood. but now we go to bring our proofs for the next branch of our first proposition ; in which we assert , that the fathers believed that the very substance of the bread and wine did remain after the consecration . by which all the proofs brought in the former branch will receive a further evidence ; since by these it will appear the fathers believed the substance of the elements remained ; and thence we may well conclude , that where-ever we find mention made of bread and wine after consecration , they mean of the substance , and not of the accidents , of bread and wine . for proof of this , we sha●● only bring the testimonies of four ●a●h●rs , that lived almost within one age , and were the greatest men of the age . their authority is as generally received as their testimonies are formal and decisive ; and these are , pope gelasius , st. chrysostome , ephrem patriarch of antioch , and theodoret , whom we shall find delivering to us the doctrine of the church in their age , with great consideration upon a very weighty occasion : so that it shall appear that this was for that age the doctrine generally received both in the churches of rome and constantinople , antioch , and asi● the less . we shall begin with gelasius , who , though he lived later than some of the others , yet , because of the eminence of his see , and the authority those we deal with must needs acknowledge was in him , ought to be set first : he says , the sacraments of the body and blood of christ are a divine thing ; for which reason we become , by them , partakers of the divine nature ; and yet the substance or nature of bread and wine does not cease to be ; and the image and likeness of the body and blood of christ are indeed celebrated in the action of the mysteries : therefore it appears evidently ●nough , that we ought to think th●t of christ our lord , which we profess and celebrate , and receive in his image , that as they ( to wit , the elements ) pass into that divine substance , the holy ghost working it , their nature remaining still in its own property . so that principal mystery , whose efficiency and virtue these ( to wit , the sacraments ) represent to us , remains one entire and true christ ; those things of which he is compounded ( to wit , his two natures ) remaining in their properties . these words seem so express and decisive , that one would think the bare reading them without any further reflections , should be of force enough . but before we offer any considerations upon them , we shall set down other passages of the other fathers , and upon them altogether make such remarks as , we hope , may satisfy any that will hear reason . st. chrysostom treating of the two natures of christ against the apollinarists , who did so confound them , as to consubstantiate them , he makes use of the doctrine of the sacrament to illustrate that mystery by , in these words ; as before the bread is sanctified , we call it bread ; but when the divine grace has sanctified it by the mean of the priest , it is freed from the name of bread , and is thought worthy of the name of the lord's body , though the nature of bread remains in it : and yet it is not said there are two bodies , but one body of the son : so the divine nature being joyned to the body , both these make one son , and one person . next this patriarch of constantinople , let us hear ephrem the patriarch of antioch give his testimony , as it is preserved by photius , who says thus ; in like manner ( having before treated of the two natures united in christ ) the body of christ , which is received by the faithful , does not depart from its sensible substance , and yet remains inseparated from the intellectual grace : so baptism becoming wholly spiritual and one , it preserves its own sensible substance , and does not lose that which it was before . to these we shall add , what theodoret on the same occasion says against those , who from that place , the word was made flesh , believed , that in the incarnation the divinity of the word was changed into the humanity of the flesh. he brings in his heretick arguing about some mystical expressions of the old testament , that related to christ : at length he comes to shew , how christ called himself bread and corn ; so also in the delivering the mysteries , christ called the bread his body , and the mixed cup his blood ; and our saviour changed the names , calling his body by the name of the symbole , and the symbole by the name of his body . and when the heretick asks the reason why the names were so changed , the orthodox answers , that it was manifest to such as were initiated in divine things ; for he would have those who partake of the mysteries , not look to the nature of those things that were seen ; but by the change of the names , to believe that change that was made through grace ; for he who called his natural body corn and bread , does likewise honour the visible symboles with the name of his body and blood ; not changing the nature , but adding grace to nature : and so goes on to ask his heretick , whether he thought the holy bread was the symbole and type of his divinity , or of his body and blood ? and the other acknowledging they were the symboles of his body and blood : he concludes , that christ had a true body . the second dialogue is against the eutychians ; who believed , that after christ's assumption , his body was swallowed up by his divinity : and there the eutychian brings an argument to prove that change from the sacament ; it being granted , that the gifts before the priests prayer were bread and wine . he asks how it was to be called after the sanctification ? the or●hodox answers , the body and blood of christ ; and that he believed he received the body and blood of christ. from thence the heretick , as having got a great advantage , argues ; that as the symboles of the body and blood of our lord were one thing before the priestly invocation , and after that were changed , and are different from what they were : so the body of our lord , after the assumption , was changed into the divine substance . but the orthodox replies , that he was catched in the net be laid for others ; for the mystical symboles , after the sanctification , do not depart from their own nature ; for they continue in their former substance , figure and form , and are both visible and palpable , as they were before ; but they are understood to be that which they are made , and are believed and venerated , as being those things which they are believed to be . and from thence he bids the heretick compare the image with the original , for the type must be like the truth , and shews that christ's body retains its former form and figure , and the substance of his body , though it be now made immortal and incorruptible . thus he . and having now set down very faithfully the words of these fathers , we desire it may be considered , that all these words are used to the same effect , to prove the reality of christ's body , and the distinction of the two natures , the divine and the humane in him . for , though st. chrysostom lived before eutyches his days , yet in this point the eutychians and the apollinarists , against whom he writes , held opinions so like others , that we may well say , all these words of the fathers we have set down are to the same purpose . now , first it is evident , that if transubstantiation had been then believed , there needed no other argument to prove against the eutychians that christ had still a real body , but to have declared that his body was corporally present in the eucharist ; which they must have done , had they believed it , and not spoken so as they did ; since that alone well proved , had put an end to the whole controversy . further , they could never have argued from the visions and apparitions of christ , to prove he had still a real body ; for if it was possible the body of christ could appear under the accidents of bread and wine , it was as possible the divinity should appear under the accidents of an humane body . thirdly , they could never have argued against the eutychians , as they did , from the absurdity that followed upon such a substantial mutation of the humane nature of christ into his divinity , if they had believed this substantial conversion of the elements into christ's body , which is liable unto far greater absurdities . and we can as little doubt , but the eutychians had turned back their arguments on themselves , with these answers , if that doctrine had been then received . it is true , it would seem from the last passage of theodoret , that the eutychians did believe some such change ; but that could not be , for they denied the being of the body of christ , and so could not think any thing was changed into that which they believed was not . therefore we are to suppose him arguing from some commonly received expressions , which the father explains . in fine , the design of those ●athers being to prove , that the two natures might be united without the change of either of their substances in the person of christ , it had been inexcusable folly in them , to have argued from the sacramental mysteries being united to the body and blood of christ , if they had not believed they retained their former substance ; for had they believed transubstantiation , what a goodly argument had it been , to have said , because after the consecration the accidents of bread and wine remain , therefore the substance of the humanity remained still , though united to the divine nature in christ. did ever man in his wits argue in this fashion ? certainly , these four bishops , whereof three were patriarchs , and one of these a pope , deserved to have been hissed out of the world , as persons that understood nor what it was to draw a consequence , if they had argued so as they did and believed transubstantiation . but if you allow them to believe ( as certainly they did ) that in the sacrament the real substances of bread and wine remained , though after the sanctification , by the operation of the holy ghost , they were the body and blood of christ , and were to be called so ; then this is a most excellent illustration of the mystery of the incarnation , in which the humane nature retains its proper and true substance , though after the union with the divinity , christ be called god , even as he was man , by vertue of his union with the eternal word . and this shews how unreasonable it is to pretend , that because substance and nature are some●imes used even for accidental qualities , they should be therefore understood so in the cited places ; for if you take them in that sense , you destroy the force of the argument , which from being a very strong one , will by this means become a most ridiculous sophism . yet we are indeed beholding to those that have taken much pains to shew , that substance and nature stand often for accidental qualities ; for though that cannot be applied to the former places , yet it helps us with an excellent answer to many of those passages with which they triumph not a little . having so far considered these four fathers , we shall only add to them the definition of the seventh general council at constantinople , ann . . christ appointed us to offer the image of his body , to wit , the substance of the bread. this council is indeed of no authority with these we deal with : but we do not bring it as a decree of a council , but as a testimony , that so great a number of bishops did in the eighth century believe ; that the substance of the bread did remain in the eucharist , and that it was only the image of christ's body : and if in this definition they spake not more consonantly to the doctrine of the former ages , than their enemies at nice did , let what has been set down , and shall be yet adduced , declare . and now we advance to the third branch of our first assertion , that the fathers believed that the consecrated elements did nourish our bodies ; and the proofs of this will also give a further evidence to our former position ; that the substance of the elements does , remain : and it is a demonstration that these fathers , who thought the sacrament nourished our bodies , could not believe a transubstantiation of the bread and wine into the body and blood of christ. for the proof of this branch we desire the following testimonies be considered . first , iustin martyr , as was already cited , not only calls the eucharist our nourishment , but formally calls it that food by which our flesh and blood through its transmutation into them are nourished . secondly , irenaeus proving the resurrection of the body by this argument , that our bodies are fed by the body and blood of christ , and that therefore they shall rise again ; he hath these words , he confirmed that cup , which is a creature , to be his blood , by which he increases our blood ; and the bread , which is a creature , to be his body , by which he encreases our body : and when the mixed cup and the bread , receive the word of god , it becomes the eucharist of the body and blood of christ , by which the substance of our flesh is encreased and subsists . how then do they deny the flesh to be capable of the gift of god , which is eternal life , that is nourished by the body and blood of christ , and is made his member . we hope it will be observed , that as these words are express and formal ; so the design on which he uses them will admit of none of those distinctions they commonly rely on . tertullian says , the flesh is fed with the body and blood of christ. saint austin , after he had called the eucharist our daily bread , he exhorts us so to receive it , that not only our bellies , but our minds might be refreshed by it . isidore of sevil says , the substance of the visible bread nourishes the outward man ; or , as bertram cites his words , all that we receive externally in the sacrament of the body and blood of christ , is proper to refresh the body . next , let us see what the th council of toledo says in anno. . condemning those that did not offer in the eucharist entire loaves , but only round crafts ; they did appoint one entire loaf carefully prepared to be set on the altar , that it might be sanctified by the priestly benediction , and order , that what remained after communion , should be either put in some bag , or , if it was needful , to eat it up , that it might not oppress the belly of him that took it with the burden of an heavy surcharge ; and that it might not go to the digestion , but that it might feed his soul with spiritual nourishment . from which words , one of two consequences will necessarily follow ; either that the consecrated elements do really nourish the body , which we intend to prove from them ; or that the body of christ is not in the elements , but as they are sacramentally used , which we acknowledg many of the fathers believed . but the last words we cited of the spiritual nourishment , shew those fathers did not think so ; and if they did , we suppose those we deal with will see , that to believe christ's body is only in the elements when used , will clearly leave the charge of idolatry on that church in their processions , and other adorations of the host. but none is so express as origen , who , on these words , ' t is not that which enters within a man which defiles a man , says , if every thing that enters by the mouth , goes into the belly , and is cast into the draught ; then the food that is sanctified by the word of god , and by prayer , goes also to the belly , as to what is material in it , and from thence to the draught ; but by the prayer that was made over it , it is useful in proportion to our faith , and is the mean that the understanding is clear-sighted and attentive to that which is profitable ; and it is not the matter of bread , but the word pronounced over it , which profits him that does not eat it in a way unworthy of our lord. this doctrine of the sacraments being so digested that some parts of it turned to excrement , was likewise taught by divers latin writers in the th age , as rabanus maurus arch-bishop of mentz , and heribald bishop of auxerre . divers of the greek writers did also hold it , whom for a reproach their adversaries called stercoranists . it is true , other greek fathers were not of origen's opinion , but believed that the eucharist did entirely turn into the substance of our bodies . so cyril of ierusalem says , that the bread of the eucharist does not go into the belly , nor is cast into the draught , but is distributed thorough the whole substance of the communicant , for the good of body and soul. the homily of the eucharist in a dedication , that is in st. chrysostom's works , says , do not think that this is bread , and that this is wine ; for they pass not to the draught , as other victuals do : and comparing it to wax put to the fire , of which no ashes remain ; he adds , so think that the mysteries are consumed with the substance of our bodies . john damascene is of the same mind , who says , that the body and the blood of christ passes into the consistence of our souls and bodies , without being consumed , corrupted , or passing into the draught , god forbid , but passing into our substance for our conservation thus it will appear , that though those last-cited-fathers did not believe as origen did , that any part of the eucharist went to the draught ; yet they thought it was turned into the substance of our bodies , from which we may well conclude , they thought the substance of bread and wine remained in the eucharist after the consecration , and that it nourished our bodies . and thus we hope we have sufficiently proved our first proposition in all its three branches . so leaving it , we go on to the second proposition , which is ; that the fathers call the consecrated elements the figures , the signs , the symboles , the types , and antitypes , the commemoration , representation , the mysteries , and the sacraments of the body and blood of christ. tertullian proving against marcion , that christ had a real body , he brings some figures that were fulfilled in christ , and says , he made the bread which he took and gave his disciples to be his body , saying , this is my body , that is , the figure of my body ; but it had not been a figure if his body had not been true , for an empty thing , such as a phantasm , cannot have a figure . now had tertullian , and the church in his time , believed transubstantiation , it had been much more pertinent for him to have argued , here is corporally present christ's body , therefore he had a true body , than to say , here is a figure of his body , therefore he had a true body ; such an escape as this is not incident to a man of common sense , if he had believed transubsubstantiation . and the same father , in two other places before cited , says christ gave the figure of his body to the bread , and that he represented his own body by the bread. st. austin says , he commended and gave to his disciples , the figure of his body and blood. the same expressions are also in bede , alcuine , and druthmar , that lived in the eighth and ninth centuries . but what st. austin says elsewhere , is very full in this matter , where treating of the rules by which we are to judg what expressions in scripture are figurative , and what not , he gives this for one rule , if any place seem to command a crime or horrid action , it is figurative ; and to instance it , cites these words , except ye eat the flesh and drink the blood of the son of man , you have no life in you , which ( says he ) seems to command some crime , or horrid action , therefore it is a figure , commanding us to communicate in the passion of our lord , and sweetly and profitably to lay up in our memory , that his flesh was crucified and wounded for us . which words are so express and full , that whatever those we deal with may think of them , we are sure we cannot devise how any one could have delivered our doctrine more formally . parallel to these are origen's words , who calls the understanding the words of our saviour , of eating his flesh and drinking his blood according to the letter , a letter that kills . the same st. austin calls the eucharist , a sign of christ's body , in his book against adimantus , who studied to prove that the author of the old and new testament was not the same god ; and among other arguments , he uses this , that blood in the old testament is called the life or soul , contrary to the new testament : to which st. austin answers , that it was so called , not that it was truly the soul or life , but the sign of it ; and to shew , that the sign does sometimes bear the name of that whereof it is a sign , he says , our lord did not doubt to say , this is my body , when he was giving the sign of his body . where , if he had not believed the eucharist was substantially different from his body , it had been the most impertinent illustration that ever was , and had proved just against him , that the sign must be one and the same with that which is signified by it . for the sacrament being called the type , the antitype , the symbole and mystery of christs body and blood ; the ancient liturgies , and greek fathers , use these phrases so frequently , that since it is not so much as denied , we judg we need not laboriously prove it . therefore we pass over this , believing it will be granted ; for if it be denied , we undertake to prove them to have been used not only on some occasions , but to have been the constant stile of the church . now that types , antitypes , symboles , and mysteries , are distinct from that which they shadow forth , and mystically hold out , we believe can be as little disputed . in this sense all the figures of the law are called types of christ by the fathers , and both the baptismal water and the chrism are called symboles and mysteries . and though there was not that occasion for the fathers to discourse on baptism so oft , which every body received but once , and was administred ordinarily but on a few days of the year , as they had to speak of the eucharist , which was daily consecrated ; so that it cannot be imagined , there should be near such a number of places about the one as about the other ; yet we fear not to undertake to prove , there be many places among the ancients that do as fully express a change of the baptismal water as of the eucharistical elements . from whence it may appear , that their great zeal to prepare persons to a due value of these holy actions , and that they might not look on them as a vulgar ablution , or an ordinary repast , carried them to many large and high expressions , which cannot bear a literal meaning . and since they with whom we deal are sain to fly to metaphors and allegories for for cleaning of what the i athers say of baptism , it is a most unreasonable thing to complain of us for using such expositions of what they say about the eucharist . but that we may not leave this without some proof , we shall set down the words of facundus , who says , the sacrament of adoption , that is baptism , may be called adoption , as the sacrament of his body and blood , which is in the consecrated bread and cup , is called his body and blood ; not that the bread is properly his body , or the cup properly his blood , but because they contain in them the mystery of his body and blood ; and hence it was that our lord called the bread that was blessed , and the cup which he gave his disciples , his body and blood. therefore as the believers in christ , when they receive the sacrament of his body and blood , are rightly said to have received his body and blood ; so christ , when he received the sacrament of the adoption of sons , may be rightly said to have received the adoption of sons . and we leave every one to gather from these words , if the cited father could believe transubstantiation , and if he did not think that baptism was as truly the adoption of the sons of god , as the eucharist was his body and blood , which these of rome acknowledge is only to be meant in a moral sense . that the fathers called this sacrament the memorial and representation of the death of christ , and of his body that was broken , and his blood that was shed , we suppose will be as little denied , for no man that ever looked into any of their treatises of the eucharist , can doubt of it . st. austin says , that sacraments must have some similitude of these things of which they be the sacraments , otherwise they could not be sacraments . so he says , the sacrament of the body of christ is after some manner his blood. so the sacrament of faith ( that is baptism ) is faith. but more expresly speaking of the eucharist as a sacrifice of praise ; he says , the flesh and blood of this sacrifice was promised before the coming of christ by the sacrifices of the types of it : in the passion of christ ; it was done in the truth it self : and after his ascent is celebrated by the sacrament of the remembrance of it . but he explains this more fully on the th psalm ; where he having read , ver . . worship his footstool ; and seeking for its true meaning , expounds it of christ's body , who was flesh of this earth , and gives his flesh to be eaten by us for our salvation , which , since none eats , except he have first adored it ; he makes this the footstool which we worship without any sin , and do sin if we do not worship it . so far the church of rome triumphs with this place . but let us see what follows , where we shall find that which will certainly abate their joy ; he goes on and tells us , not to dwell on the flesh , lest we be not quickned by the spirit ; and shews how they that heard our lord's words were scandalized at them as hard words ; for they understood them , says he , foolishly , and carnally , and thought he was to have cut off some parcels of his body to be given them : but they were hard , not our lord 's saying ; for had they been meek , and not hard , they should have said within themselves , he says not this without a cause , but because there is some sacrament hid there ; for had they come to him with his disciples , and asked him , he had instructed them : for he said it is the spirit that quickens , the flesh profiteth nothing : the words that i have spoken to you are spirit and life . and adds , understand spiritually that which i have said ; for it is not this body which you 〈◊〉 , that you are to eat ; or to drink this 〈◊〉 which they are to shed , who shall 〈◊〉 me : but i have recommended a sacrament to you , which being spiritually understood , shall quicken you ; and though it be necessary that it be celebrated visibly , yet it must be understood invisibly . from which it is as plain as can be , that st. austin believed that in the eucharist we do not eat the natural flesh , and drink the natural blood of christ ; but that we do it only in a sacrament , and spiritually , and invisibly . but the force of all this will appear yet clearer , if we consider that they speak of the sacrament as a memorial that exhibited christ to us in his absence : for though it naturally followes , that whatsoever is commemorated must needs be absent ; yet this will be yet more evident , if we find the fathers made such reflections on it . so gaudentius says , this is , the hereditary gift of his new teststament , which that night he was betrayed to be crucified , he left as the pledg of his presence : this is the provision for our journey with which we are fed in this way of our life , and nourished till we go to him out of this world ; for he would have his benefits remain with us : he would have our souls to be always sanctified by his precious blood , and by the image of his own passion . primasius compares the sacrament to a pledg , which one , when he is dying , leaves to any whom he loved . many other places may be brought , to shew how the fathers speak of memorials and representations , as opposite to the truth and presence of that which is represented . and thus we doubt not but we have brought proofs , which , in the judgment of all that are unprejudiced , must demonstrate the truth of this our second proposition , which we leave , and go on to the third , which was ; that by the doctrine of the fathers , the unworthy receivers did not receive christ's body and blood in the sacrament . for this our first proof is taken from origen , who after he had spoken of the sacraments being eaten , and passing to the belly , adds , these things we have said of the typical and symbolical body ; but many things may be said of the word that was made flesh , and the true food , whom whosoever eats , he shall live for ever ; whom no wicked person can eat : for if it were possible that any who continues wicked , should eat the word that was made flesh , since he is the word , and the living bread , it had never been written ; whoso eats this bread , shall live for ever . where he makes a manifest difference between the typical and symbolical body received in the sacrament , and the incarnate word , of which no wicked person can partake . and he also says , they that are good eat the living bread that came down from heaven ; and the wicked eat dead bread , which is death . zeno , bishop of verona , that , as is believed , lived near origen's time , says , ( as he is cited by ratherius bishop of verona ) there is cause to fear , that be in whom the devil dwells , does not eat the flesh of our lord , nor drink his blood , though he seems to communicate with the faithful ; since our lord hath said , he that eats my flesh , and drinks my blood , dwells in me , and i in him . st. jerom on the th of isa. says , they that are not holy in body and spirit , do neither eat the flesh of jesus , nor drink his blood ; of which he said , he that eats my flesh , and drinks my blood , hath eternal life . and on the th chap. of hos. he says , they eat not his flesh , whose flesh is the food of them that believe . to the same purpose he writes in his comments on the th of jeremy , and on the th of zech. st. austin says , he that does not abide in christ , and in whom christ does not abide , certainly does not spiritually eat his flesh , nor drink his blood , though he may visibly and carnally break in his teeth the sacrament of the body and blood of christ. but he rather eats and drinks the sacrament of so great a matter to his judgment . and speaking of those , who by their uncleanness become the members of an harlot ; he says , neither are they to be said to eat the body of christ , because they are not his members . and besides , he adds , he that says , whoso eats my flesh , and drinks my blood , abides in me , and i in him ; shews what it is not only in a sacrament , but truly to eat the body of christ , and drink his blood. to this we shall add , that so oft cited passage ; those did eat the bread that was the lord ; the other ( he means judas ) the bread of the lord against the lord. by which he clearly insinuates , he did believe the unworthy receivers did not receive the lord with the bread : and that this hath been the cons●ant belief of the greek-church to this day , shall be proved , if it be thought necessary for clearing this matter . and thus far we have studied to make good what we undertook to prove : but if we had enlarged on every particular , we must have said a great deal more ; to shew from many undeniable evidences , that the fathers were strangers to this new mystery . it is clear from their writings , that they thought christ was only spiritually present , that we did eat his flesh , and drink his blood only by faith , and not by our bodily senses ; and that the words of eating his flesh , and drinking his blood , were to be understood spiritually . it is no less clear , that they considered christ present only as he was on the cross , and not as he is now in the glory of the father : and from hence it was , that they came to order their eucharistical forms so , as that the eucharist might represent the whole history of christ from his incarnation to his assumption . besides , they always speak of christ as absent from us , according to his flesh and human nature , and only present in his divinity and by his spirit ; which they could not have said , if they had thought him every day present on their altars in his flesh and human nature ; for then he were more on earth than he is in heaven , since in heaven he is circumscribed within one place . but according to this doctrine he must be always in above a million of places upon earth , so that it were very strange to say he were absent , if they believed him thus present . but to give yet further evidences of the fathers not believing this doctrine , let us but reflect a little on the consequences that necessarily follow it : which be , . that a body may be , by the divine power , in more places at once . . that a body may be in a place without extension or quantity ; so a body of such dimensions as our blessed lord's body can be in so small a room as a thin wafer ; and not only so , but that the whole body should be entirely in every crumb and point of that wafer . . that a body can be made or produced in a place that had a real being before , and yet is not brought thither , but produced there . . that the accidents of any substance , such as colour , smell , taste , and figure , can remain without any body or substance in which they subsist . . that our senses may deceive us in their clearest and most evident representations . . great doubts there are what becomes of the body of christ after it is received ; or , if it should come to be corrupted , or to be snatched by a mouse , or eat by any vermine . all these are the natural and necessary effects of this doctrine , and are not only to be perceived by a contemplative and searching understanding , but are such as stare every body full in the face : and hence it is , that since this was submitted to in the western church , the whole doctrine of philosophy has been altered , and new maxims and definitions were found out , to accustom the youth while raw and easy to any impression , to receive these as principles , by which their minds being full of those first prejudices , might find no difficulty to believe this . now it is certain , had the fathers believed this , they who took a great deal of pains to resolve all the other mysteries of our faith , and were so far from being short or defective in it , that they rather over-do it ; and that not only about the mysteries of the trinity and incarnation , but about original sin , the derivation of our souls , the operation of the grace of god in our hearts , and the resurrection of our bodies , should yet have been so constantly silent in those mysteries , though they ought rather to have been cleared than the other . because in the other heads the difficulties were more speculative and abstracted , and so scruples were only incident to men of more curious and diligent enquiries . but here it is otherwise , where the matter being an object of the senses , every mans senses must have raised in him all or most of those scruples : and yet the fathers neither in their philosophical treatises , nor in their theological writings , ever attempt the unridling those difficulties . but all this is only a negative , and yet we do appeal to any one that has diligently read the fathers , st. austin in particular ; if he can perswade himself , that when all other mysteries and the consequences from them were explained with so great care and even curiosity , these only were things of so easy a digestion , that about them there should have been no scruple at all made . but it is yet clearer , when we find the fathers not only silent , but upon other occasions delivering maxims and principles so directly contrary to these consequences , without any reserved exceptions or provisions for the strange mysteries of transubstantiation : they tell us plainly , creatures are limited to one place , and so argued against the heathens believing their inferior deities were in the several statues consecrated to them : from this they prove the divinity of the holy ghost , that he did work in many places at once , and so could not be a creature , which can only be in one place . nay , they do positively teach us , that christ can be no more on earth , since his body is in heaven , and is but in one place . they also do tell us , that that which hath no bounds nor figure , and cannot be touched nor seen , cannot be a body , and that all bodies are extended in some place , and that bodies cannot exist after the manner of spirits . they also tell us in all their reasonings against the eternity of matter , that nothing could be produced that had a being before it was produced . they also teach us very formally , that none of the qualities of a body could subsist , except the body it self did also subsist . and for the testimonies of our senses , they appeal to them on all occasions as infallible ; and tell us , that it tended to reverse the whole state of our life , the order of nature , and to blind the providence of god ; to say , he has given the knowledg and enjoyment of all his works to liars and deceivers ; if our senses be false . then we must doubt of our faith ; if the testimony of the eyes , hands and ears were of a nature capable to be deceived . and in their contests with the marcionites and others about the truth of christ's body , they appeal always to the testimony of the senses as infallible : nay , even treating of the sacrament , they say , it was bread as their eyes witnessed , and truly wine that christ did consecrate for the memory of his blood ; telling , that in this very particular we ought not to doubt the testimony of our senses . but to make this whole matter yet plainer ; it is certain , that had the church in the first ages believed this doctrine , the heathens and jews who charged them with every thing they could pos " ms = " sibly invent , had not passed over this , against which all the powers of reason , and the authorities of sense , do rise up . they charge them for believing a god , that was born , a god of flesh , that was crucified and buried . they laughed at their belief of a iudgment to come , of endless flames , of an heavenly paradise , and the resurrection of the flesh. the first apologists for christianity , iustin , tertullian , origen , arnobi●s , and cyril of alexandria , give us a full account of those blasphemies against our most holy faith ; and the last hath given us what iulian objected in his own words , who having apostatized from the faith in which he was initiated , and was a reader in the church , must have been well acquainted with , and instructed in their doctrine and sacraments . he then who laughed at every thing , and in particular at the ablution and sanctification in baptism , as conceiving it a thing impossible that water should cleanse and wash a soul. yet neither he , nor celsus , nor any other ever charged on the christians any absurdities from their belief of transubstantiation . this is , it is true , a negative argument ; yet when we consider the malice of those ingenious enemies of our faith , and their care to expose all the doctrines and customs of christians , and yet find them in no place charge the strange consequences of this doctrine on them ; we must from thence conclude , there was no such doctrine then received : for if it had been , they , at least iulian , must have known it ; and if they knew it , can we think they should not have made great noise about it . we know some think their charging the christians with the eating of humane flesh , and thye●tean suppers , related to the sacrament ; but that cannot be , for when the fathers answer that charge , they tell them to their teeth , it was a plain lye : and do not offer to explain it with any relation to the eucharist , which they must have done if they had known it was founded on their doctrine of receiving christs body and blood in the sacrament . but the truth is , those horrid calumnies were charged on the christians from the execrable and abominable practi●es of the gnosticks , who called themselves christians ; and the enemies of the faith , either believing these were the practices of all christians , or being desirous to have others think so , did accuse the whole body of christians as guilty of these abominations . so that it appears , those calumnies were not at all taken up from the eucharist , and there being nothing else that is so much as said to have any relation to the eucharist , charged on the christians , we may well conclude from hence , that this doctrine was not received then in the church . but another negative argument is , that we find heresies rising up in all ages against all the other mysteries of our faith , and some downright denying them , others explaining them very strangely ; and it is indeed very natural to an unmortified and corrupt mind , to reject all divine revelation , more particularly that which either choakes his common notions , or the deductions of appearing reasonings ; but most of all , all men are apt to be startled , when they are told , they must believe against the clearest evidences of sense , for men were never so meek and tame , as easily to yeild to such things . how comes it then , that for the first seven ages there were no heresies nor hereticks about this ? we are ready to prove , that from the eighth and ninth centuries , in which this doctrine began to appear , there has been in every age great opposition made to all the advances for setting it up , and yet these were but dark and unlearned ages , in which implicite obedience , and a blind subjection to what was generally proposed , was much in credit . in those ages , the civil powers being ready to serve the rage of church-men against any who should oppose it , it was not safe for any to appear against it . and yet it cannot be denied , but from the days of the second council of nice , which made a great step towards transubstantiation , till the fourth council of l●teran , there was great opposition made to it by the most eminent persons in the latin church ; and how great a part of christendome has departed from the obedience of the church of rome in every age since that time , and upon that account , is well enough known . now , is it to be imagined , that there should have been such an opposition to it these nine hundred years last past , and yet that it should have been received the former eight hundred years with no opposition , and that it should not have cost the church the trouble of one general council to decree it , or of one treatise of a father to establish it , and answer those objections that naturally arise from our reasons and senses against it . but in the end there are many things which have risen out of this doctrine as its natural consequences , which had it been sooner taught and received , must have been apprehended sooner , and those are so many clear presumptions of the novelty of this doctrine . the elevation , adoration , processions , the doctrine of concomitance , with a vast superfaetation of rites and rubricks about this sacrament are lately sprung up . the age of them is well known , and they have risen in the latin church out of this doctrine , which had it been sooner received , we may reasonably enough think must have been likewise ancienter . now for all these things , as the primitive church knew them not , so on the other hand , the great simplicity of their forms , as we find them in justin martyr , and cyril of ierusalem , in the apostolical constitutions , and the pretended denis the arcopagite , are far from that pomp which the latter ages that believed this doctrine brought in the sacraments being given in both kinds , being put in the hands of the faithful , being given to the children for many ages , being sent by boys or common persons to such as were dying , the eating up what remained , ( which in some places were burnt , in other places were consumed by children , or by the clergy ) their making cataplasms of it , their mixing the consecrated chalice with ink to sign the excommunication of hereticks . these , with a great many more , are such convictions to one that has carefully compared the ancient forms , with the rubricks and rites of the church of rome , since this doctrine was set up , that it is as discernable as any thing can be , that the present belief of the church of rome is different from the primitive doctrine . and thus far we have set down the reasons that perswade us that transubstantiation was not the belief of the first seven or eight centuries of the church . if there be any part of what we have asserted , questioned , we have very formal and full proofs ready to shew for them ; though we thought it not fit to enter into the particular proofs of any thing , but what we undertook to make out when we waited on your ladyship . now there remains but one thing to be done , which we also promised ; and that was to clear the words of st. cyril of jerusalem : we acknowledg they were truly cited : but for clearing of them , we shall neither alledg any thing to the lessening the authority of that father , though we find but a slender character given of him by epiphanius and others : nor shall we say any thing to lessen the authority of these catechisms , though much might be said . but it is plain , st. cyril's design in these catechisms , was only to posses his neophites with a just and deep sense of these holy symboles . but even in his th catechism he tells them , not to consider it as meer bread and wine , for it is the body and blood of christ. by which it appears he thought it was bread still , though not meer bread. and he gives us else-where a very formal account in what sense he thought it was christ's body and blood ; which he also insinuates in this th cathechism : for in his first mist. catechism , when he exhorts his young christians to avoid all that belonged to the heathenish idolatry , he tells , that on the solemnities of their idols they had flesh and bread , which by the invocation of the devils were defiled , as the bread and wine of the eucharist before the holy invocation of the blessed trinity was bare bread and wine ; but the invocation being made , the bread becomes the body of christ. in like manner , says he , those victuals of the pomp of satan , which of their own nature are common or bare victuals , by the invocation of the devils become prophane . from this illustration , which he borrowed from iustin martyr his second apology , it appears , that he thought the consecration of the eucharist was of a like sort or manner with the profanation of the idolatrous feasts ; so that as the substance of the one remained still unchanged , so also according to him must the substance of the other remain . or , if this will not satisfy them , let us see to what else he compares this change of the elements by the consecration : in his third mist. catechism , treating of the consecrated oil , he says ; as the bread of the eucharist after the invocation of the holy ghost is no more common bread , but the body of christ ; so this holy ointment is no more bare ointment , nor , as some may say , common ; but it is a gift of christ , and the presence of the holy ghost , and becomes energetical of his divinity . and from these places let it be gathered what can be drawn from st. cyril's testimony . and thus we have performed likewise what we promised , and have given a clear account of st. cyril's meaning from himself ; from whose own words , and from these things which he compares with the sanctification of the elements in the eucharist , it appears he could not think of transubstantiation ; otherwise he had neither compared it with the idol-feasts , nor the consecrated oil , in neither of which there can be supposed any transubstantiation . having thus acquitted our selves of our engagement before your ladiship , we shall conclude this paper with our most earnest and hearty prayers to the father of lights , that he may of his great mercy redeem his whole christian church from all idolatry ; that he may open the eyes of those , who being carnal look only at carnal things , and do not rightly consider the excellent beauty of this our most holy faith , which is pure , simple , and spiritual : and that he may confirm all those whom he has called to the knowledg of the truth ; so that neither the pleasures of sin , nor the snares of this world , nor the fear of the cross , tempt them to make shipwrack of the faith and a good conscience . and that god may pour out abundance of his grace on your ladiship , to make you still continue in the love and obedience of the truth , is the earnest prayer of , madam , london , apr. . . your ladiship 's most humble servants , edward stillingfleet , gilbert burnet . a discourse , to shew how unreasonable it is , to ask for express words of scripture in proving all articles of faith : and that a just and good consequence from scripture is sufficient . it will seem a very needless labour to all considering persons , to go about the exposing and baffling so unreasonable and ill-grounded a pretence , that whatever is not read in scripture , is not to be held an article of faith. for in making good this assertion , they must either fasten their proofs on some other ground , or on the words of our article ; which are these , holy scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation : so that whatsoever is not read therein , nor may be proved thereby , is not to be required of any man that it should be believed as an article of faith , or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation . now it is such an affront to every mans eyes and understanding to infer from these words , that all our articles must be read in scripture , that we are confident every man will cry shame on any that will pretend to fasten on our church any such obligation from them . if these unlucky words , nor may be proved thereby , could be but dashed out , it were a won cause . but we desire to know what they think can be meant by these words ? or what else can they signifie , but that there may be articles of faith , which though they be not read in scripture , yet are proved by it . there be some propositions so equivalent to others , that they are but the same thing said in several words ; and these , though not read in scripture , yet are contained in it , since wheresoever the one is read , the other must necessarily be understood . other propositions there are , which are a necessary result either from two places of scripture , which joined together yeild a third , as a necessary issue ; according to that eternal rule of reason and natural logick , that wherever two things agree in any third , they must also agree among themselves . there be also other propositions that arise out of one single place of scripture by a natural deduction ; as if jesus christ be proved from any place of scripture the creator of the world , or that he is to be worshipped with the same adoration that is due to the great god , then it necessarily follows , that he is the great god ; because he does the works , and receives the worship of the great god. so it is plain , that our church by these words , nor may be proved thereby , has so declared her self in this point , that it is either very great want of consideration , or shameless impudence , to draw any such thing from our articles . but we being informed , that by this little art , as shuffling and bare so ever as it must appear to a just discerner , many have been disordered , and some prevailed on ; we shall so open and expose it , that we hope it shall appear so poor and trifling that every body must be ashamed of it . it hath already shewed it self in france and germany , and the novelty of it took with many , till it came to be canvassed ; and then it was found so weak , that it was universally cried down and hissed off the stage . but now that such decried wares will go off no-where , those that deal in them , try if they can vent them in this nation . it might be imagined , that of all persons in the world they should be the furthest from pressing us to reject all articles of faith that are not read in scripture ; since whenever that is received as a maxim , the infallibility of their church , the authority of tradition , the supremacy of rome , the worship of saints , with a great many more must be cast out . it is unreasonable enough for those who have cursed and excommunicated us , because we reject these doctrines , which are not so much as pretended to be read in scripture ; to impose on us the reading all our articles in these holy writings . but it is impudent to hear persons speak thus , who have against the express and formal words of scripture , set up the making and worshipping of images ; and these not only of saints , ( though that be bad enough ) , but of the blessed trinity , the praying in an unknown tongue , and the taking the chalice from the people . certainly this plea in such mens mouths is not to be reconciled to the most common rules of decency and discretion . what shall we then conclude of men that would impose rules on us , that neither themselves submit to , nor are we obliged to receive by any doctrine or article of our church . but to give this their plea its full strength and advantage , that upon a fair hearing all may justly conclude its unreasonableness , we shall first set down all can be said for it . in the principles of protestants the scriptures are the rule by which all controversies must be judged ; now they having no certain way to direct them in the exposition of them , neither tradition , nor the definition of the curch : either they must pretend they are infallible in their deductions , or we have no reason to make any account of them , as being fallible and vncertain ; and so they can never secure us from error , nor be a just ground to found our faith of any proposition so proved upon : therefore no proposition thus proved , can be acknowledged an article of faith. this is the bredth and length of their plea , which we shall now examine . and first , if there be any strength in this plea , it will conclude against our submitting to the express words of scripture as forcibly : since all words , how formal soever , are capable of several expositions . either they are to be understood literally or figuratively ; either they are to be understood positively , or interrogatively : with a great many other varieties , of which all expressions are capable . so that if the former argument have any force , since every place is capable of several meanings , except we be infallibly sure which is the true meaning , we ought by the same parity of reason to make no account of the most express and formal words of scripture ; from which it is apparent , that what noise soever these men make of express words of scripture , yet if they be true to their own argument , they will as little submit to these as to deductions from scripture : since they have the same reason to question the true meaning of a place , that they have to reject an inference and deduction from it . and this alone may serve to satisfy every body that this is a trick , under which there lies no fair dealing at all . but to answer the argument to all mens satisfaction , we must consider the nature of the soul , which is a reasonable being ; whose chief faculty is to discern the connexion of things , and to draw out such inferences as flow from that connexion . now , though we are liable to great abuses both in our judgments and inferences ; yet if we apply these faculties with due care , we must certainly acquiesce in the result of such reasonings : otherwise this being god's image in us , and the standard by which we are to try things , god has given us a false standard ; which when we have with all possible care managed , yet we are still exposed to fallacies and errors . this must needs reflect on the veracity of that god that has made us of such a nature , that we can never be reasonably assured of any thing . therefore it must be acknowledged , that when our reasons are well prepared according to those eternal rules of purity and vertue , by which we are fitted to consider of divine matters ; and when we carefully weigh things , we must have some certain means to be assured of what appears to us . and though we be not infallible , so that it is still possible for us by precipitation , or undue preparation , to be abused into mistakes ; yet we may be well assured that such connexions and inferences as appear to us certain , are infallibly true . if this be not acknowledged , then all our obligation to believe any thing in religion will vanish . for that there is a god , that he made all things , and is to be acknowledged , and obeyed by his creatures ; that our souls shall outlive their union with our bodies , and be capable of rewards and punishments in another state ; that inspiration is a thing possible ; that such or such actions were above the power of nature , and were really performed . in a word , all the maxims on which the belief , either of natural religion , or revealed , is founded , are such as we can have no certainty about them , and by consequence are not obliged to yield to them ; if our faculty of reasoning in its clear deductions is not a sufficient warrant for a sure belief . but to examin a little more home their beloved principle , that their church cannot err , must they not prove this from the divine goodness and veracity , from some passages of scripture , from miracles and other extraordinary things they pretend do accompany their church ? now in yielding assent to this doctrine upon these proofs , the mind must be led by many arguments , through a great many deductions and inferences . therefore we are either certain of these deductions : or we are not . if we are certain , this must either be founded on the authority of the church expounding them , or on the strength of the argu " ms = " ments . now we being to examin this authority , not having yet submitted to it ; this cannot determine our belief till we see good cause for it . but in the discerning this good cause of believing the church infallible , they must say that an uncontrollable evidence of reason is ground enough to fix our faith on , or there can be no certain ground to believe the church infallible . so that it is apparent we must either receive with a firm perswasion what our souls present to us as uncontrollably true ; or else we have no reason to believe there is a god , or to be christians , or to be , as they would have us , romanists . and if it be acknowledged there is cause in some cases for us to be determined by the clear evidence of reason in its judgments and inferences ; then we have this truth gained , that our reasons are capable of making true and certain inferences , and that we have good cause to be determined in our belief by these ; and therefore inferences from scripture ought to direct our belief : nor can any thing be pretended against this , but what must at the same time overthrow all knowledg and faith , and turn us sceptical to every thing . we desire it be in the next place considered what is the end and use of speech and writing , which is to make known our thoughts to others ; those being artificial signs for conveying them to the understanding of others . now every man that speaks pertinently , as he designs to be understood , so he chooses such expressions and arguments as are most proper to make himself understood by those he speaks to ; and the clearer he speaks , he speaks so much the better : and every one that wraps up his meaning in obscure words , he either does not distinctly apprehend that about which he discourses , or does not design that those to whom he speaks should understand him , meaning only to amuse them . if likewise he say any thing from which some absurd inference will easily be apprehended , he gives all that hear him a sufficient ground of prejudice against what he says . for he must expect that as his hearers senses receive his words or characters , so necessarily some figure or notion must be at the same time imprinted on their imagination , or presented to their reason ; this being the end for which he speaks , and the more genuinely that his words express his meaning , the more certainly and clearly they to whom he directs them apprehend it . it must also be acknowledged , that all hearers must necessarily pass judgments on what they hear , if they do think it of that importance as to examine it . and this they must do by that natural faculty of making judgments and deductions , the certainty whereof we have proved to be the foundation of all faith and knowledge . now the chief rule of making true judgments , is , to see what consequences certainly follow on what is laid before us : if these be found absurd or impossible , we must reject that from which they follow as such . further , because no man says every thing that can be thought or said to any point , but only such things as may be the seeds of further enquiry and knowledg in their minds to whom he speaks ; when any thing of great importance is spoken , all men do naturally consider what inferences arise out of what is said by a necessary connexion : and if these deductions be made with due care , they are of the same force , and must be as true as that was from which they are drawn . these being some of the laws of converse , which every man of common sense must know to be true , can any man think , that when god was revealing by inspired men his counsels to mankind , in matters that concerned their eternal happiness , he would do it in any other way than any honest man speaks to another , that is , plainly and distinctly ? there were particular reasons why prophetical visions must needs be obscure ; but when christ appeared on earth , though many things were not to be fully opened till he had triumphed over death and the powers of darkness : yet his design being to bring men to god , what he spoke in order to that , we must think he intended that they to whom he spake it might understand it , otherwise why should he have spoken it to them ? and if he did intend they should understand him , then he must have used such expressions as were most proper for conveying this to their understandings ; and yet they were of the meaner sort , and of very ordinary capacities , to whom he addressed his discourses . if then such as they were , might have understood him ; how should it come about that now there should be such a wondrous mysteriousness in the words of christ and his apostles ? ( for the same reason by which it is proved that christ designed to be understood , and spake suitably to that design , will conclude as strongly that the discourses of the apostles in matters that concern our salvation , are also intelligible . ) we have a perfect understanding of the greek tongue ; and , though some phrases are not so plain to us which alter every age , and some other passages that relate to some customs , opinions or forms , of which we have no perfect account left us , are hard to be understood : yet what is of general and universal concern , may be as well understood now as it was then ; for sense is sense still . so that it must be acknowledged , that men may still understand all that god will have us believe and do in order to salvation . and therefore if we apply and use our faculties aright , joyning with an unprejudiced desire and search for truth , earnest prayers that god by his grace may so open our understandings , and present divine truths to them , that we may believe and follow them : then both from the nature of our own souls , and from the design and end of revelation , we may be well assured that it is not only very possible , but also very easy for us to find out truth . we know the pompous objection against this , is , how comes it then that there are so many errors and divisions among christians ? especially those that pretend the greatest acquaintance with scriptures : to which the answer is so obvious and plain , that we wonder any body should be wrought on by so fallacious an argument . does not the gospel offer grace to all men to lead holy lives , following the commandments of god ? and is not grace able to build them up , and make them perfect in every good word and work ? and yet how does sin and vice abound in the world ? if then the abounding of error proves the gospel does not offer certain ways to preserve us from it , then the abounding of sin will also prove there are no certain ways in the gospel to avoid it . therefore as the sins mankind generally live in , leave no imputation on the gospel ; so neither do the many heresies and schisms conclude that the gospel offers no certain ways of attaining the knowledg of all necessary truth . holiness is every whit as necessary to see the face of god as knowledg is , and of the two is the more necessary ; since low degrees of knowledg , with an high measure of holiness , are infinitely preferable to high degrees of knowledg with a low measure of holiness . if then every man have a sufficient help given him to be holy , why may we not much rather conclude he has a sufficient help to be knowing in such things as are necessary to direct his belief and life , which is a less thing ? and how should it be an imputation on religion , that there should not be an infallible way to end all controversies , when there is no infallible way to subdue the corrupt lusts and passions of men , since the one is more opposite to the design and life of religion than the other ? in sum , there is nothing more sure than that the scriptures offer us as certain ways of attaining the knowledg of what is necessary to salvation , as of doing the will of god. but as the depravation of our natures makes us neglect the helps towards an holy life ; so this and our other corruptions , lusts and interests , make us either not to discern divine truth , or not embrace it . so that error and sin are the twins of the same parents . but as every man that improves his natural powers , and implores and makes use of the supplies of the divine grace , shall be enabled to serve god acceptably ; so that though he fail in many things , yet he continuing to the end in an habit and course of well doing , his sins shall be forgiven , and himself shall be saved : so upon the same grounds we are assured , that every one that applies his rational faculties to the search of divine truth , and also begs the illumination of the divine spirit , shall attain such knowledg as is necessary for his eternal salvation : and if he be involved in any errors , they shall not be laid to his charge . and from these we hope it will appear , that every man may attain all necessary knowledg , if he be not wanting to himself . now when a man attains this knowledg , he acquires it , and must use it as a rational being , and so must make judgments upon it , and draw consequences from it ; in which he has the same reason to be assured , that he has to know the true meaning of scripture ; and therefore as he has very good reason to reject any meaning of a place of scripture , from which by a necessary consequence great absurdities and impossibilities must follow : so also he is to gather such inferences as flow from a necessary connexion with the true meaning of any place of scripture . to instance this in the argument we insisted on , to prove the mean by which christ is received in the sacrament , is faith ; from these words , whoso eats my flesh , and drinks my blood , hath eternal life . if these words have relation to the sacrament , which the roman church declares is the true meaning of them ; there cannot be a clearer demonstration in the world. and indeed they are necessitated to stand to that exposition ; for if they will have the words , this is my body , to be understood literally , much more must they assert the phrases of eating his flesh , and drinking his blood , must be literal : for if we can drive them to allow a figurative and spiritual meaning of these words , it is a shameless thing for them to deny such a meaning of the words , this is my body : they then expounding these words of st. iohn of the sacrament , there cannot be imagined a closser contexture than this which follows . the eating christ's flesh , and drinking his blood , is the receiving him in the sacrament ; therefore everyone that receives him in the sacrament must have eternal life . now all that is done in the sacrament , is either the external receiving the elements , symboles , or , as they phrase it , the accidents of bread and wine , and under these the body of christ ; or the internal and spiritual communicating by faith. if then christ received in the sacrament gives eternal life , it must be in one of these ways , either as he is received externally , or as he is received internally , or both ; for there is not a fourth : therefore if it be not the one at all , it must be the other only . now it is undeniable , that it is not the external eating that gives eternal life . for st. paul tells us of some that eat and drink unworthily , that are guilty of the body and blood of the lord , and eat and drink judgment against themselves . therefore it is only the internal receiving of christ by faith , that gives eternal life ; from which another necessary inference directs us also to conclude , that since all that eat his flesh , and drink his blood , have eternal life : and since it is only by the internal communicating that we have eternal life , therefore these words of eating his flesh , and drinking his blood , can only be understood of internal communicating ; therefore they must be spiritually understood . but all this while the reader may be justly weary of so much time and pains spent to prove a thing which carries its own evidence so with it , that it seems one of the first principles and foundations of all reasoning ; for no proposition can appear to us to be true , but we must also assent to every other deduction that is drawn out of it by a certain inference . if then we can certainly know the true meaning of any place of scripture , we may and ought to draw all such conclusions as follow it with a clear and just consequence ; and if we clearly apprehend the consequence of any proposition , we can no more doubt the truth of the consequence , than of the proposition from which it sprung : for if i see the air full of a clea● day-light , i must certainly conclude the sun is risen ; and i have the same assurance about the one that i have about the other . there is more than enough said already for discovering the vanity and groundlesness of this method of arguing : but to set the thing beyond all dispute , let us consider the use which we find our saviour and the apostles making of the old testament , and see how far it favours us , and condemns this appeal to the formal and express words of scriptures . but before we advance further , we must remove a prejudice against any thing may be drawn from such presidents , these being persons so filled with god and divine knowledg , as appeared by their miracles and other wonderful gifts , that gave so full an authority to all they said , and of their being infallible , both in their expositions and reasonings , that we whose understandings are darkned and disordered , ought not to pretend to argue as they did . but for clearing this , it is to be observed , that when any person divinely assisted , having sufficiently proved his inspiration , declares any thing in the name of god , we are bound to submit to it ; or if such a person , by that same authority , offers any exposition of scripture , he is to be believed without further dispute . but when an inspired person argues with any that does not acknowledg his inspiration , but is enquiring into it , not being yet satisfied about it ; then he speaks no more as an inspired person : in which case the argument offered is to be examined by the force that is in it , and not by the authority of him that uses it . for his authority being the thing questioned , if he offers an argument from any thing already agreed to ; and if the argument be not good , it is so far from being the better by the authority of him that useth it ; that it rather gives just ground to lessen or suspect his authority , that understands a consequence so ill , as to use a bad argument to use it by . this being premised . when our saviour was to prove against the sadducees the truth of the resurrection from the scriptures , he cites out of the law that god was the god of abraham , isaac , and jacob ; since then god is not god of the dead , but of the living : therefore abraham , isaac and jacob did live unto god. from which he proved the souls having a being distinct from the body , and living after its separation from the body , which was the principal point in controversy . now if these new maxims be of any force , so that we must only submit to the express words of scripture , without proving any thing by consequence ; then certainly our saviour performed nothing in that argument : for the sadducees might have told him , they appealed to the express words of scripture . but alas ! they understood not these new-found arts , but submitting to the evident force of that consequence , were put to silence , and the multitudes were astonished at his doctrine . now it is unreasonable to imagine that the great authority of our saviour , and his many miracles , made them silent ; for they coming to try him , and to take advantage from every thing he said , if it were possible to lessen his esteem and authority , would never have acquiesced in any argument because he used it , if it had not strength in it self ; for an ill argument is an ill argumont , use it whoso will. for ins●ance , if i see a man pretending that he sits in an infallible chair , and proving what he delivers by the most impertinent allegations of scripture possible , as if he attempts to prove the pope must be the head of all powers civil and spiritual from the first words of genesis ; * where it being said , in the beginning , and not in the beginnings , in the plural , ( from which he concludes there must be but one beginning and head of all power , ( to wit ) the pope . ) i am so far from being put to silence with this , that i am only astonished how any man of common sense , though he pretended not to infallibility , could fall into such errors : for an ill argument , when its fallacy is so apparent , must needs heap contempt on him that uses it . having found our saviour's way of arguing to be so contrary to this new method these gentlemen would impose on us ; let us see how the apostles drew their proofs for matters in controversy from scriptures : the two great points they had most occasion to argue upon , were , iesus christ's being the true messiah , and the freedom of the gentiles from any obligation to the observance of the mosaical law. now let us see how they proceeded in both these . for the first ; in the first sermon after the effusion of the holy ghost , st. peter proves the truth of christ's resurrection from these words of david , thou wilt not leave my soul in hell , nor suffer thine holy one to see corruption . now he shews that these words could not be meant of david , who was dead and buried ; therefore being a prophet , he spake of the resurrection of christ. if here were not consequences and deductions , let every one judg . now these being spoken to those who did not then believe in christ , there was either sufficient force in that argument to convince the jews , otherwise these that spake them were very much both to be blamed , and despised , for offering to prove a matter of such importance by a consequence . but this being a degree of blasphemy against the holy ghost , we must acknowledg there was strength in their argument ; and therefore articles of faith , whereof this was the fundamental , may be proved from scripture by a consequence . we might add to this all the other prophecies in the old testament , from which we find the apostles arguing to prove this foundation of their faith , which every one may see do not contain in so many words that which was proved by them . but these being so obvious , we choose only to name this , all the rest being of a like nature with it . the next controversy debated in that time was the obligation of the mosaical law. the apostles by the inspiration of the holy ghost made a formal decision in this matter , yet there being great opposition made to that , st. paul sets himself to prove it at full length , in his epistle to the galatians , where , besides other arguments , he brings these two from the old testament ; one was , that abraham was justified by faith before the giving the law ; for which he cites these words , abraham believed god , and it was counted to him for righteousness : from which , by a very just consequence he infers , that as abraham was blessed , so all that believe are blessed with him ; and that the law of moses , that was years after , could not disannul it , or make the promise of none effect ; therefore we might now be justified by faith without the law , as well as he was . another place he cites , is , the just shall live by faith , and he subsumes , the law was not of faith ; from which the conclusion naturally follows : therefore the just lives not by the law. he must be very blind that sees not a succession of many consequences in that epistle of st. paul's ; all which had been utterly impertinent , if this new method had any ground for its pretension , and they might at one dash have overthrown all that he had said . but men had not then arrived at such devices as must at once overturn all the sense and reason of mankind . we hope what we premised will be remembred , to shew that the apostles being infallibly directed by the holy ghost , will not at all prove , that though this way of arguing might have passed with them , yet it must not be allowed us : for their being infallibly directed , proves their arguments and way of proceeding was rational and convincing , otherwise they had not pitched on it . and the persons to whom these arguments were offered not acquiescing in their authority , their reasonings must have been good , otherwise they had exposed themselves and their cause to the just scorn of their enemies . having therefore evinced that both our saviour and his apostles did prove by consequences drawn from scripture , the greatest and most important articles of faith ; we judg that we may with very great assurance follow their example . but this whole matter will receive a further confirmation : if we find it was the method of the church of god in all ages to found her decisions of the most important controversies on consequences from scriptures . there were very few hereticks that had face and brow enough to set up against express words of scripture ; for such as did so , rejected these books that were so directly opposite to their errors ; as the maniche●s did the gospel of st. matthew . but if we examine the method either of councils in condemning hereticks , or of the fathers writing against them , we shall always find them proceeding upon deductions and consequences from scripture , as a sufficient ground to go upon . let the epistle both of the council of antioch to samosatenus , and denis of alexandria's letter to him be considered ; and it shall be found how they drew their definitions out of deductions from scripture . so also alexander patriarch of alexandria in his epistle , in which he condemned aerius , proceeds upon deductions from scripture ; and when the council of nice came to judg of the whole matter , if we give credit to ge●●sius , they canvassed many places of scripture , that they might come to a decision ; and that whole dispute , as he represents it , was all about interences and deductions from scripture . it is true , f. maimbourg in his romantick history of arrianism would perswade us , that in that counsel the orthodox , and chiefly the great saints of the council were for adhering closely to what they had received by tradition , without attempting to give new expositions of scripture , to interpret it any other way than as they had learned from these fathers , that had been taught them by the apostles . but the arrians , who could not find among these that which they intended to establish , maintained on the contrary , that we must not confine our selves to that which hath been held by antiqui●y , since none could be sure about that . therefore they thought that one must search the truth of the doctrine only in the scriptures , which they could turn to their own meaning by their false subtitles . and to make this formal account pass easily with his reader , he vouches on the margin , sozom. cap. . when i first read this , it amazed me to find a thing of so great consequence not so much as observed by the writers of controversies ; but turning to sozomen , i found in him these words , speaking of the dispute about arrius his opinions , the disputation being , as is usual , carried out into different enquiries ; some were of opinion that nothing should be innovated beyond the faith that was originally delivered ; and these were chiefly those whom the simplicity of their manners had brought to divine faith without nice curiosity . others did strongly or earnestly contend that it was not fit to follow the ancienter opinions without a strict trial of them . now in these words we find not a word either of orthodox or arrian ; so of which side either one or other were , we are left to conjecture . that jesuite has been sufficiently exposed by the writers of the port-royal , for his foul dealing on other occasions ; and we shall have great cause to mistruth him in all his accounts , if it be found that he was quite mistaken in this ; and that the party which he calls the orthodox were really some holy , good men ; but simple , ignorant , and ●asily abused : and that the other party which he calls the arrian was the orthodox , and more judicious , who readily forseeing the inconvenience which the simplicity of others would have involved them in , did vehemently oppose it ; and pressed the testimonies of the fathers might not be blindly followed . for proof of this , we need but consider that they anathematized these , who say that the son was the work of the father , as [a] athanasius tells us , which were the very words of denis of alexandria , of whom the arrians [b] boasted much , and cited these words from him ; and both [c] athanasius and [d] hilary acknowledg that those bishops that condemned s●●nos●tenus , did also reject the consubstantial , and st. b●sil [e] says , denis sometimes denied , sometimes acknowledged the consubstantial . yet i shall not be so easy as petavius and others of the roman church are in this matter ; who acknowledg that most of the fathers before the council of nice said many things that did not agree with the rule of the orthodox ●aith ; but am fully perswaded , that before that council , the church did believe that the son was truly god , and of the same divine substance with the father : yet on the other hand it cannot be denied , but there are many expressions in their writings which they had not so well considered ; and thence it is that st. basil f observes how denis in his opposition to sabellius had gone too far on the other hand . therefore there was a necessity to make such a symbole as might cut off all equivocal and ambiguous forms of speech . so we have very good reason to conclude it was the arrian party , that studied under the pretence of not innovating , to engage many of the holy , but simpler bishops , to be against any new words or symboles , that so they might still lurk undiscovered . upon what grounds the council of nice made their decree and symbole , we have no certain account , since their acts are lost . but the best conjecture we can make , is from s. athanasius , who , as he was a great assertor of the faith in that council , so also he gives us a large account of its creed , in a particular treatise , g in which he jus●ifies their symbole at great length out of the scriptures , and tell us very formally they used the word consubstantial , that the wickedness and craft of the arrians might be discovered , and proves by many consequences from scriptures , that the words were well chosen ; and sets up his rest on his arguments from the scriptures , though all his proofs are but consequences drawn out of them . it is true , when he has done that , he also adds , that the fathers at nice did not begin the use of these words , but had them from those that went before them ; and cites some passages from theognistus , denis of alexandria , denis of rome , and origen . but no body can imagin this was a full proof of the tradition of the faith. these were but a few later writers , nor could he have submitted the decision of the whole controversy to two of these , denis of alexandria and origen , ( for the other two , their works are lost ) in whose writings there were divers passages that favoured the arrians , and in which they boasted much . therefore athanasius only cites these passages to shew the words of these symbole were not first coined by the council of nice . but neither in that treatise , nor in any other of his works , do i ever find that either the council of nice , or he who was the great champion for their faith , did study to prove the consubstantiality to have been the constant tradition of the church : but in all his treatises he at full length proves it from scripture . so from the definition of the council of nice , and athanasius his writings , it appears the church of that age thought that consequences clearly proved from scripture were a sufficient ground to build an article of ●aith on . with this i desire it be also considered , that the next great controversy , that was carried on chiefly by s. cyril against the nestorians , was likewise all managed by consequences from scripture , as will appear to any that reads s. cyril's writings , inserted in the acts of the council of ephesus , chiefly his treatise to the queens ; and when he brought testimonies from the fathers against nesto●ius , which were read in the council , h they are all taken out of fathers that lived after the council of nice , except only s. cyprian , and peter of alexandria . if then we may collect from s. cyril's writings the sense of that council , as we did from s. athanasius that of the council of nice ; we must conclude that their decrees were founded on consequences drawn from scripture ; nor were they so solicitous to prove a continued succession of the tradition . in like manner , when the council of cha●edon condemned eutyches , pope leo's epistle to ●lavian was read , and all assented to it : so that upon the matter , his epistle became the decree of the council , and that whole epistle from beginning to end , is one entire series of consequences proved from scripture and reason : i and to the end of that epistle are added in the acts of that council testimonies from the fathers , that had lived after the days of the council of nice . k theodoret and gelasius l also , who wrote against the eutychians , do through their whole writings pursue them with consequences drawn from scripture and reason , and in the end set down testimonies from fathers : and to instance only one more , when st. austin wrote against the pelagians , how many consequences he draws from scripture , every one that has read him must needs know . in the end let it be also observed , that all these fathers when they argue from places of scripture , they never attempt to prove that those scriptures had been expounded in that sense they urge them in by the councils or fathers who had gone before them ; but argue from the sense which they prove they ought to be understood in . i do not say all their consequences or expositions were wel-grounded ; but all that has been hitherto set down , will prove that they thought arguments drawn from scripture when the consequences are clear , were of sufficient authority and force to end all controversies . and thus it may appear that it is unreasonable , and contrary to the practice both of the ancient councils and fathers , to reject proofs drawn from places of scripture , though they contain not in so many words that which is intended to be proved by them . but all the answer they can offer to this , is , that those fathers and councils had another authority to draw consequences from scripture , because the extraordinary presence of god was among them , and because of the tradition of the faith they builded their decrees on , than we can pretend to , who do not so much as say we are so immediately directed , or that we found our faith upon the successive tradition of the several ages of the church . to this i answer ; first , it is visible , that if there be any strength in this , it will conclude as well against our using express words of scripture , since the most express words are capable of several expositions . therefore it is plain , they use no fair dealing in this appeal to the formal words of scripture , since the argument they press it by , do invalidate the most express testimonies as well as deductions . let it be further considered , that before the councils had made their decrees , when heresies were broached , the fathers wrote against them , confuting them by arguments made up of scripture-consequences ; so that before the church had decreed , they thought private persons might confute heresies by such consequences . nor did these fathers place the strength of their arguments on tradition , as will appear to any that reads but what s. cyril wrote against nestorius before the council of ephesus , and pope leo against eutyches , before the council of chalcedon , where all their reasonings are founded on scripture . it is true , they add some testimonies of ●athers to prove they did not innovate any thing in the doctrine of the church : but it is plain , these they brought only as a confirmation of their arguments , and not as the chief strength of their cause ; for as they do not drive up the tradition to the apostles days , setting only down some later testimonies ; so they make no inferences from them , but barely set them down . by which it is evident , all the use they made of these , was only to shew that the ●aith of the age that preceded them , was conform to the proofs they brought from scriptures ; but did not at all found the strength of their arguments from scripture , upon the sense of the fathers that went before them . and if the council of nice had passed the decree of adding the consubstantials to the creed , upon evidence brought from tradition chiefly , can it be imagined that s. athanasius , who knew well on what grounds they went , having born so great a share in their consultations and debates , when he in a formal treatise justifies that addition , should draw his chief arguments from scripture and natural reason ; and that only towards the end , he should 〈◊〉 us of four writers , from whom he brings passages to prove this was no new or unheard-of thing . in the end , when the council had passed their decree , does the method of their dispute alter ? let any read athanasius , hil●ry , or st. austin writing against the arrians : they continue still to ply them with arguments made up of consequences from scripture ; and their chief argument was clearly a consequenco from scripture , that since christ was by the confession of the arrians truly god , then he must be of the same substance , otherwise there must be more substances , and so more gods , which was against scripture . now , if this be not a consequence from scripture , let every body judg . it was on this they chiefly insisted , and waved the authority of the council of nice , which they mention very seldom , or when they do speak of it , it is to prove that its decrees were according to scripture . ●or proof of this , let us hear what st. austin says [m] writing against maximinus an arrian●ishop ●ishop , proving the consubstantiality of the son : this is that consubstan●ial which was established by the catholick fathers in the coun●il of nice , against the arrians ; by the authority of truth , and the truth of authority , which heretical impiety studied to overthrow under the heretical emperor constantius , because of the newness of t●e words , which were not so well understood , as should have been : since the ancient faith had brought them forth ; but many were abused by the fraud of a few . and a little after he adds , but now neither should i bring the council of nice , nor yet the council of arimini thereby to prejudg in this matter ; neither am i bound by the authority of the latter , nor you by the authority of the former . let one cause and reason contest and strive with the other from the authorities of the scriptures , which are witnesses common to both , and not proper to either of us . if this be not our plea , as formally as can be , let every reader judg ; from all which we conclude , that our method of proving articles of faith by consequences drawn from scripture , is the same that the catholick church in all the best ages made use of : and therefore it is unreasonable to deny it to us . but all that hath been said will appear yet with fuller and more demonstrative evidence , if we find , that this very pretence of appealing to formal words of scriptures , was on several occasions taken up by divers hereticks , but was always rejected by the fathers as absurd and unreasonable . the first time we find this plea in any bodies mouth , is upon the question , whether it was lawful for christians to go to the theaters , or other publick spectacles , which the fathers set themselves mightily against , as that which would corrupt the minds of the people , and lead them to heathenish idolatry . but others that loved those diverting fights , pleaded for them upon this ground , as tertullian * tells us in these words ; the faith of some being either simpler or more scrupulous , calls for an authority from scripture , for the discharge of these sights ; and they became uncertain about it , because such abstinence is no-where denounced to the servants of god , neither by a clear signification , nor by name ; as , thou shalt not kill , nor worship an idol : but he proves it from the first verse of the psalms ; for though that seems to belong to the jews , yet ( says he ) the scripture is always to be divided broad , where that discipline is to be guarded according to the sense of whatever is present to us . and this agrees with that maxim he has elsewhere , that the words of scripture are to be understood , not only by their sound , but by their sense ; and are not only to be heard with our ears , but with our minds . in the next place , the arrians designed to shroud themselves under general expressions ; and had found glosses for all passages of scripture . so that when the council of nice made all these ineffectual , by putting the word consubstantial into the creed ; then did they in all their councils , and in all disputes , set up this plea , that they would submit to every thing was in scripture , but not to any additions to scripture . a large account of this we have from athanasins , * who gives us many of their creeds . in that proposed at arimini , these words were added to the symbole , for the word substance , because it was simply set down by the fathers , and is not understood by the people , but breeds scandal , since the scriptures have it not , therefore we have thought fit it be left out , and that there be no more mention made of substance concerning god , since the scriptures no-where speak of the substance of the father and the son. he also tells us , that at sirmium they added words to the same purpose to their symbole , rejecting the words of substance or consubstantial , because nothing is written of them in the scriptures , and they transcend the knowledg and understanding of men . thus we see how exactly the plea of the arrians agrees with what is now offered to be imposed on us . but let us next see what the father says to this : he first turns it back on the arrians , and shews how far they were from following that rule which they imposed on others . and if we have not as good reason to answer those so , who now take up the same plea , let every one judg . but then the father answers , it was no matter though one used forms of speech that were not in scripture , if he had still a sound or pious understanding ; as on the contrary a heretical person , though he uses forms out of scripture , he will not be the less suspected , if his understanding be corrupted ; and at full length applies that to the question of the consubstantiality . to the same purpose , st. hilary setting down the arguments of the arrians against the consubstantiality , the third objection is , that it was added by the council of ni●● , but ought not to be received , because it is no-where written . but he answers , it was a foolish thing to be afraid of a word , when the thing e●pressed by the word has no difficulty . we find likewise in the conference st. austin had with maximinus , the arrian bishop * , i● the very beginning the arrian tells him , that he must hearken to what he brought out of the scriptures , which were common to them all ; but for words that were not in scripture , they were in no case received by them . and afterwards he says * , we receive with a full veneration every thing that is brought out of the holy scriptures , for the scriptures are not in our dominion ●hat they may be mended by us . and a little after adds , p●a●h is not gathered out of arguments , but is proved by sure testimonies , therefore he seeks a testimony of the h●ly ghost's being god. but to that st. austin makes answer , that from the things that we read , we must understand the things that we read not . and giving an account of another conference * he had with count pascentius that was an arrian , he tells , that the arrian did most earnestly press that the word consubstantial might be shewed in scripture , repeating this frequently , and canvassing about it invidiously . to whom st. austin answers , nothing could be more conten●ious than to strive about a word when the thing was certain , and asks him where the word unbegotten ( which the arrians used ) was in scripture . and since it was no-where in scripture , he from thence concludes , there might be a very good account given why a word that was not in scripture might be well used . and by how many consequences he proves the consubstantiality we cannot number , except that whole epistle were set down . and again , in that which is called an epistle * , but is an account of another conference between that same person and st. austin , the arri●n desired the consubstantiality might be accursed , because it was no-where to be found written in the scriptures ; and adds , that it was a grievous trampling on the authority of the scripture to set down that which the scripture had not said ; for if any thing be set down without authority from the divine volumes , it is proved to be void ; against which st. austin argues at great length , to prove that it necessarily follows from other places o● scripture . in the conference between photinus , sabellus , arrius , and athanasius , first published by cassander * , as a work of vigilius , but believed to be the work of gel●sius an african ; where we have a very full account of the pleas of these several parties . arrius challenges the council of nice for having corrupted the faith with the addition of new words , and complains of the consubstantial , and says , the apostles , their disciples , and all their successors downward , that had lived in the confession of christ to that ●ime , were ignorant of that word : and on this he insists with great vehemency , urging it over and over again , pressing athanasius either to read it properly set down in scripture , or to cast it out of his confession ; against which athanasius replies , and shews him how many things they acknowledged against the other hereticks which were not written ; shew me these things , ( says he ) not from conjectures or probabilities , or things that do neighbour on reason , not from things that provoke us to understand them so , nor from the piety of faith , perswading such a profession ; but shew it written in the pure and naked property of words , that the father is unbegotten , or impassible . and then he tells arrius , that when he went about to prove this , he should not say , the reason of faith required this , piety teaches it , the consequence from scripture forces me to this profession . i will not allow you , says he , to obtrude these things on me● because you reject me when i bring you such like things , for the profession of the consubstantial . in the end he says , either permit me to prove the consubstantial by consequences , or if you will not , you must deny all those things which you your self grant . and after athanasius had urged this further , probus , that sate judg in the debate , said , neither one nor other could shew all that they believed properly and specially in scripture : therefore he desired they would trifle no longer in such a childish contest , but prove either the one or the other by a just consequence from scripture . in the macedonian controversy against the divinity of the holy ghost , we find this was also their plea ; a hint of it was already mentioned in the conference betwixt maximi●us the arrian bishop , and s. austin , which wehave more fully in st. gregory nazianzen , * who proving the divinity of the holy ghost , meets with that objection of the macedonians , that it was in no place of scripture , to which he answers , some things seemed to be said in scripture that truly are not , as when god is said to sleep ; some things truly are , but are no-where said , as the fathers being unbegotten , which they themselves believed , and concludes that these things are drawn from these things out of which they are gathered , though they be not mentioned in scripture . therefore he upbraids those for serving the letter , and joyning themselves to the wisdom of the jews , and that leaving things , they followed syllables : and shews how valid a good consequence is : as if a man , says he , speaks of a living creature that is reasonable , but mortal ; i conclude it must be a man : do i for that seem to rave ? not at all ; for these words are not more truly his that says them , than his that did make the saying of them necessary : so he infers , that he might without fear believe such things as he either found or gathered from the scriptures , though they either were not at all , or not clearly in the scriptures . we find also in a dialogue between an orthodox and a macedonian , that is in athanasius's works , but believed to be written by maximus , after he had proved by a great many arguments that the attributes of the divine nature , such as the omniscience and omnipresence were ascribed to the holy ghost . in end the macedonian flies to this known refuge , that it was no-where written that he was god , and so challenges him for saying that which was not in scripture . but the orthodox answers , that in the scriptures the divine nature was ascribed to the holy ghost , and since the name follows the nature , he concludes , if the holy ghost did subsist in himself , did sanctifie , and was increated , he must be god whether the other would or not . then he asks , where it was written , that the son was like the father in his essence ? the heretick answers , that the fathers had declared the son consubstantial as to his essence . but the orthodox replies ( which we desire may be well considered ) , were they moved to that from the sense of the scripture , or was it of their own authority or arrogance that they said any thing that was not written . the other confesses it was from the sense of the scripture , that they were moved to it ; from this the orthodox infers , that the sense of the scripture teaches us that an uncreated spirit that is of god , and quickens and sanctifies , is a divine spirit , and from thence he concludes , he is god. thus we see clearly , how exactly the macedonians and these gentlemen agree , and what arguments the fathers furnish us with against them . the nestorian history followed this tract , and we find nestorius both in his letters * to cyril of alexandria , to pope celestin , and in these writings of his that were read in the council of ephesus * , gives that always for his reason of denying the blessed virgin to have been the mother of god , because the scriptures did no-where mention it , but call her always the mother of christ , and yet that general council condemned him for all that ; and his friend john patriarch of antioch earnestly pressed him by his letters not to reject but to use that word , since the sense of it was good , and it agreed with the scriptures ; and it was generally used by many of the fathers , and had never been rejected by any one . this was also eutyches his last refuge * , when he was called to appear before the council at constantinople , he pretended sickness , and that he would never stir out of his monastery ; but being often cited , he said to those that were sent to him , in what scripture were the two natures of christ to be found ? to which they replied , in what scripture was the consubstantial to be found : thus turnning his plea back on himself , as the orthodox had done before on the arrians . eutyches also when he made his appearance , he ended his defence with this , that he had not found that ( to wit , of the two natures ) plainly in the scripture , and that all the fathers had not said it . but for all that , he was condemned by that council which was afterwards ratified by the universal council of chalcedon . yet after this repeated condemnation the eutychians laid not down this plea , but continued still to appeal to the express words of scripture ; which made theodoret write two discourses to shew the unreasonableness of that pretence , they are published in athanasius his works , b among these sermons against hereticks : but most of these are theodoret's , as appears clearly from photius● his account of theodoret's works ; the very titles of them lead us to gather his opinion of this plea : the th discourse , which by photius's account is the th , has this title , to those that say we ought to receive the expression , and not look to the things signified by them , as transcending all men . the th , or according to photius , c the th , is , to those who say we ought to believe simply as they say , and not consider what is convenient or inconvenient . if i should set down all that is pertinent to this purpose , i must set down the whole discourses ; but i shall gather out of them such things as are most proper . he first complains of those who studied to subvert all humane things and would not suffer men to be any longer reasonable , that would receive the words of the sacred writings without consideration , or good direction , not minding the pious scope for which they are written . for if ( as they would have us ) we do not consider what they mark out to us , but simply receive their words , then all that the prophets and apostles have written will prove of no use to those that hear them , for then they will hear with their ears , but not understand with their hearts ; nor consider the consequence of the things that are said , according to the curse in isaias . — and after he had applied this to those who misunderstood that place , the word was made flesh , he adds , shall i hear a saying , and shall i not enquire into its proper meaning , where then is the proper consequence of what is said , or the profit of the hearer ? would they have men changed into the nature of bruits ? if they must only receive the sound of words with their ears , but no fruit in their soul from the ●nderstanding of them . contrariwise did st. paul tell us , they who are perfect have their senses exercised to discern good and evil ; but how can any discern aright if he do not apprehend the meaning of what is said ? and such he compares to beasts , and makes them worse than the clean beasts , who chew the cud ; and , as a man is to consider what meats are set before him , so he must not snatch words strip'd of their meaning , but must carefully consider what is suitable to god , and profitable to us , what is the force of truth , what agrees with the law , or answers to nature ; he must consider the genuineness of faith , the firmness of hope , the sincerity of love , what is liable to no reproach what is beyond envy , and wor●●y of favour ; all which things concur ●word ? pious meditations . and concludes thus , the sum of all is , he that receives any words , and does not consider the meaning of them , how can he understand those that seem to contradict others ? where shall be find a fit answer ? how shall be satisfy those that interrogate him , or defend that which is written ? these passages are out of the first discourse , what follows is out of the second . in the beginning he says , though the devil has invented many grievous doctrines , yet he doubts if any former age brought forth any thing like that then broached . former heres●s had their own proper errors ; but this that was now invented renewed all others , and exceeded all others . which , says he , receives simply what is said , but does not enquire what is convenient , or inconvenient : but shall i believe without judgment , and not enquire what is possible , convenient , decent , acceptable to god , answerable to nature , agreeable to truth , or is a consequence from the scope , or suitable to the mystery , or to piety ; or what outward reward , or inward fruit accompanies it ; or must i reckon on none of these things . but the cause of all our adversaries errors , is , that with their ears they hear words , but have no understanding of them in their hearts ; for all of them ( and names diverse ) 〈◊〉 a trial , that they be not convinced , and at length shews what absurdities must follow on such a method . instancing those places about which the contest was with the arrians , such as these words of christ , the father is greater than i. and shews what apparent contradictions there are , if we do not consider the true sense of places of scripture that seem contradictory , which must be reconciled by finding their true meaning ; and concludes , so we shall either perswade , or overcome our adversary ; so we shall shew that the holy scripture is consonant to its self ; so we shall justly publish the glory of the mystery , and shall treasure up such a full assurance as we ought to have in our souls ; we shall neither believe without the word , nor speak without faith. now i challenge every reader , to consider if any thing can be devised that more formally , and more nervously-overthrows all the pretences brought for this appeal to the express words of scripture . and here i stop ; for though i could carry it further , and shew that other hereticks shrowded themselves under the same pretext : yet i think all impartial readers will be satisfied , when they find this was an artifice of the first four grand heresies ; condemned by the first four general councils . and from all has been said , it is apparent how oft this very pretence has been bafled by universal councils and fathers . yet i cannot leave this with the reader , without desiring him to take notice of a few particulars that deserve to be considered . the first is , that which these gentlemen would impose on us has been the plea of the greatest hereticks have been in the church . those therefore who take up these weapons of hereticks , which have been so oft blunted and broken in their hands ; by the most universal councils , and the most learned fathers of the catholick church , till at length they were laid aside by all men , as unfit for any service , till in this age some jesuits took them up in defence of an often bafled cause , do very unreasonably pretend to the spirit or doctrine of catholicks , since they tread a path so oft beaten by all hereticks , and abhorred by all the orthodox . secondly , we find the fathers always begin their answering this pretence of hereticks , by shewing them how many things they themselves believed , that were no-where written in scripture . and this i believe was all the ground m. w. had for telling us in our conference that st. austin bade the heretick read what he said . i am confident that gentleman is a man of candour and honour , and so am assured he would not have been guilty of such a fallacy , as to have cited this for such a purpose , if he had not taken it on trust from second hands . but he who first made use of it , if he have no other authority of st. austin's , which i much doubt , cannot be an honest man ; who , because st. austin to shew the arrians how unjust it was to ask words for every thing they believed , urges them with this , that they could not read all that they believed themselves , would from that conclude , st. austin thought every article of faith must be read in so many words in scripture . this is such a piece of ingenuity as the jesuits used in the contest about st. austin's doctrine concerning the efficacy of grace : when they cited as formal passages out of st. austin , some of the objections of the semipelagians , which he sets down , and afterwards answers , which they brought without his answers , as his words , to shew he was of their side . but to return to our purpose ; from this method of the fathers we are taught to turn this appeal to express words , back on those who make use of it against us ; and to ask them where do they read their purgatory , sacrifice of the mass , tran●u●●slantiation , the pope's supremacy , with a great many more things in the express words of scripture . thirdly , we see the peremptory answer the fathers agree in , is , that we must understand the scriptures , and draw just consequences from them , and not stand on words or phrases ; but consider things : and from these we are furnished with an excellent answer to every thing of this nature they can bring against us . it is in those great saints , athanasius , hilary , gregory nazianzen , austin , and theodoret , that they will find out answer as , fully and formally , as need be ; and to them we refer our selves . but , fourthly , to improve this beyond the particular occasion that engaged us to all this enquiry , we desire it be considered then when such an objection was made , which those of the church of rome judg is strong to prove ; we must rely on somewhat else than scripture , either on the authority of the church , or on the certainty of tradition . the first councils and fathers had no such apprehension . all considering men , chiefly when they are arguing a nice point , speak upon some hypothesis or opinion with which they are prepossessed , and must certainly discourse consequently to it . to instance it in this particular ; if an objection be made against the drawing consequences from scripture , since all men may be mistaken ; and therefore they ought not to trust their own reasonings . a papist must necessarily upon his hypothesis say , it is true , any man may err , but the whole church , either when assembled in a council with the holy ghost in the midst of them , or when they convey down from the apostles through age to age the tradition of the exposition of the scriptures cannot err , for god will be with them to the end of the world. a protestant must on the other hand , according to his principles , argue , that since man has a reasonable soul in him ; he must be supposed endued with a faculty of making inferences : and when any consequence is apparent to our understandings , we ought and must believe it as much as we do that from which the consequence is drawn . therefore we must not only read , but study to understand the true meaning of scripture : and we have so much the more reason to be assured of what appears to us to be the true sense of the scriptures , if we find the church of god in the purest times , and the fathers believing as we believe . if we should hear two persons that were unknown to us , argue either of these two ways , we must conclude the one is a papist , the other a protestant , as to this particular . now i desire the reader may compare what has been cited from the fathers upon this subject : and see if what they write upon it does not exactly agree with our hypothesis and principles . whence we may very justly draw another conclusion that will go much further than this particular we now examine ; that in seeking out the decision of all controversies , the fathers went by the same rules we go by , to wit , the clear sense of scriptures , as it must appear to every considering mans understanding , backed with the opinion of the fathers that went before them . and thus far have i followed this objection ; and have , as i hope , to every readers satisfaction made it out , that there can be nothing more unreasonable , more contrary to the articles and doctrine of our church , to the nature of the soul of man , to the use and ●nd of words and discourse , to the practice of christ and his apostles , to the constant sense of the primitive church , and that upon full and often renewed contest with hereticks upon this very head : then to impose on us an obligation to read all the articles of our church in the express words of scripture . so that i am confident this will appear to every considering person , the most trifling and pitiful objection that can be offered by men of common sense and reason . and therefore it is hoped , that all persons who take any care of their souls , will examine things more narrowly than to suffer such tricks to pass upon them , or to be shaken by such objections . and if all the scruple these gentlemen have , why they do not joyn in communion with the church of e●gl●nd , lies in this ; we expect they shall find it so entirely satisfied , and removed out of the way , that they shall think of returning back to that church where they had their baptism and christian education , and which is still ready to receive them with open arms , and to restore such as have been over-reached into error and heresy , with the spirit of meekness . to which i pray god of his great mercy dispose both them and all others , who upon these or such like scruples have deserted the purest church upon earth ; and have turned over to a most impure and corrupt society . and let all men say amen . a discourse to shew that it was not only possible to change the belief of the church concerning the manner of christ's presence in the sacrament ; but that it is very reasonable to conclude , both that it might be done , and that it was truly changed . there is only one particular of any importance , that was mentioned in the conference , to which we forgot to make any answer at all , which was spoken by n.n. to this purpose ; how was it possible , or to be imagined that the church of god could ever have received such a doctrine as the belief of transubstantiation , if every age had not received it , and been instructed in it by their fathers , and the age that went before it ? this by a pure forgetfulness was not answered ; and one of these gentlemen took notice of it to me , meeting with me since that time , and desired me to consider what a friend of n. n. has lately printed on this subject , in a letter concerning transubstantiation , directed to a person of honour : in which , a great many pretended impossibilities of any such innovation of the doctrine are reckoned up ; to shew it a thing both inconceivable and unpracticable , to get the faith of the church changed in a thing of this nature . this same plea has been managed with all the advantages possible , both of wit , eloquence , and learning , by mr. arnaud of the sorbon ; but had been so exposed and baffled by mr. claud , who , as he equals the other in learning , eloquence , and wit , so having much the better of him in the cause and truth he vindicates , has so foiled the other in this plea , that he seeing no other way to preserve that high reputation which his other writings , and the whole course of his life had so justly acquired him ; has gone off from the main argument on which they begun , and betaken himself to a long and unprofitable enquiry into the belief of the greek church , since her schisme from the latine church . the contest has been oft renewed , and all the ingenious and learned persons of both sides , have looked on with great expectations . every one must confess , m. arnaud has said all can be said in such a cause ; yet it seems he finds himself often pinched , by the bitter ( i had almost said scurrilous ) reproaches he casts on mr. claud , which is very unbecoming the education and other noble qualities of that great man , whom for his book of frequent communion , i shall ever honour . and it is a thing much to be lamented , that he was taken off from these more useful labours , wherein he was engaged so much to the bettering this age , both in discovering the horrid corruption of the jesuits and other casuists , not only in their speculations about casuistical divinity , but in their hearing confessions , and giving easie absolutions , upon trifling penances , and granting absolutions before the penance was performed , and in representing to us the true spirit of holiness and devotion was in the primitive church . but on the other hand , as mr. claud leaves nothing unsaid in a method fully answerable to the excellence of that truth he defends ; so he answers these reproaches in a way worthy of himself , or rather of christ and the gospel . if those excellent writings were in english , i should need to say nothing to a point that has been so canvassed ; but till some oblige this nation by translating them , i shall say so much on this head , as i hope shall be sufficient to convince every body of the emptiness , weakness and folly of this plea. and first of all , in a matter of fact concerning a change made in the belief of the church , the only certain method of enquiry , is , to consider the doctrine of the church in former ages ; and to compare that with what is now received ; and if we see a difference between these , we are sure there has been a change ; though we are not able to shew by what steps it was made ; nay , though we could not so much as make it appear probable that such a change could be made . to instance this in a plain case , of the change of the english language since the dayes of william the conqueror ; that there has no such swarm of foreigners broke in upon this island , as might change our language : one may then argue thus ; every one speaks the language he heard his parents , his nurses , and others about him speak , when he was a child ; and this he continues to speak all his life , and his children speak as they heard him speak : upon which , a man of wit and phancy might say a great many things , to shew it impossible any such change should ever have been made , as that we now should speak so as not to understand what was said five or six hundred years ago . yet if i find chaucer , or any much ancienter book , so written , that i can hardly make a shift to understand it , from thence , without any further reasoning how this could be brought about , i naturally must conclude our language is altered . and if any man should be so impertinent , as to argue , that could not be ; for children speak as their nurses and parents taught them , i could hardly answer him in patience ; but must tell him it is altered , without more ado . if a child were amused with such pretended impossibilities , i would tell him , that strangers coming among us , and our travelling to parts beyond the seas , made us acquainted with other languages ; and englishmen finding in other tongues , some words and phrases , which they judged more proper than any they had , being also fond of new words , there was an insensible change made in every age , which after five or six ages , is more discernable : just so , if i find most of all the fathers either delivering their opinions clearly in this matter , against the doctrine of the roman church , or saying things utterly inconsistent with it , i am sure there has been a change made ; though i could not shew either the whole progress of it , or so much as a probable account how it could be done . if men were as machines or necessary agents , a certain account might be given of all the events in all ages ; but there are such strange labyrints in the minds of men , that none can trace them by any rational computation of what is likely . there is also such a diversity between men and men , between ages and ages , that he should make very false accounts , that from the tempers and dispositions of men in this age , should conclude what were possible or impossible many years ago . in this age , in which printing gives notice of all things so easily and speedily , and by the laying of stages for the quick and cheap conveying pacquets , and the publishing mercuries , gazettes , and iournals , and the education of almost all persons to read and write letters , and the curiosity by which all people are whetted to enquire into every thing ; the state of mankind is quite altered from what it was before , when few could read or write , but clergy-men ; so that they must be the notaries of all courts ; who continue from that , to be called clerks to this day ; and that some crimes , otherwise capital , were not punished with death , if the guilty person could but read . when people were so ignorant of what was doing about them , when neither printing , nor stages for pacquets , were in being , at least in europe , and when men were fast asleep in their business , without amusing themselves what was doing about them in the world ; it is the most unjust and unreasonable thing in nature , to imagine , that such things as are now next to impossible , were not then not only possible , but easie . so that all such calculations of impossibilities from the state and temper of this age , when applied to the ages before ours , is the most fallacious way of reckoning that can be . for instance , how improbable , or next to impossible , is this following story , that the bishops of the imperial city of the roman empire , whose first true worth , together with the greatness of that city , which was the head and metropolis of the roman empire , got them much esteem and credit in the world , should from small and low beginnings , have crept up to such a height of power , that they were looked on as the head of all power both civil and spiritual ; and that as they overthrew all other ecclesiastical jurisdiction , the bishops of that see engrossing it to themselves : so they were masters of almost all the crowns of europe , and could change governments , raise up , and assist new pretenders , call up by the preachings of some poor beggarly friars , vast armies , without pay , and send them whither they pleased : that they could draw in all the treasure and riches of europe to themselves ; that they brought princes to lie thus at their feet , to suffer all the clergy , who had a great interest in their dominions , by the vast endowments of churches and abbeys , beside the power they had in all families and consciences , to be the sworn subjects of these bishops , and to be exempted from appearing in secular courts , how criminal soever they were ? that all this should be thus brought about without the expence of any vast treasure , or the prevailing force of a conquering army , meerly by a few tricks , that were artificially managed , of the belief of purgatory , the power of absolving , and granting indulgences , and the opinion of their being s. peter's successors , and christ's vicars on earth . and that all this while when on these false colours of impostures in religion , those designs were carried on , the popes were men of the most lewd and flagitious lives possible ; and those who served them in their designs , were become the scandal and scorn of christendom ; and yet in all these attempts , they prevailed for above seven or eight ages . now if any man will go about to prove this impossible , and that princes were alwayes jealous of their authority and their lives , people alwayes loved their money and quiet , bishops alwayes loved their jurisdiction , and all men when they see designs carried on with colours of religion , by men , who in the most publick and notorious instances shew they have none at all , do suspect a cheat , and are not to be wheedled . therefore all this must be but a fable and a forgery , to make the popes and their clergyodious . will not all men laugh at such a person , that against the faith of all history , and the authority of all records , will deny a thing that was set up over all europe for many ages ? if then all this change in a matter that was temporal , against which the secular interests of all men did oppose themselves , was yet successful , and prevailed ; how can any man think it unreasonable , that a speculative opinion might have been brought into the church , by such arts , and so many degrees , that the traces of the change should be lost ? we find there have been many other changes in sacred things , which will seem no less strange and incredible ; but that we are assured whatsoever really has been , may be : and if things full as unaccountable have been brought about , it is absurd to deny that other things might not have run the same fate . it is known that all people are more uneasie to changes in things that are visible , and known to every body , than in things that are speculative , & abstracted , and known and considered but by a few : they are likewise more unwilling to part with things they are in possession of , and reckon their rights , than to suffer new opinions to be brought in among them ; and let their religion swell by additions . for it is undoubted that it is much more easie to imagine how a new opinion should be introduced , than how an ancient practice and right should be taken away . if then it be apparent , that there have been great changes made in the most visible and sensible parts of religious worship , by taking away some of the most ancient customs and rights of the people , over the whole western church , then it cannot be thought incredible , that a new speculative opinion might have by degrees been brought in . this i shall instance in a few particulars . the receiving the chalice in the sacrament , was an ancient constant custom to which all the people had been long used ; and one may very reasonably on this hypothesis , argue , that could not be ; for would the people especially in dark ages , have suffered the cup of the blood of christ to be taken from them , if they had not known that it had been taken from their fathers . upon which it is easie to conceive how many speculative impossibilities an ingenious man may devise ; and yet we know they were got to part with it by degrees ; first , the bread was given dipt in the cup , for an age or two ; and then the people judged they had both together : this step being made , it was easie afterwards to give them the bread undipt , and so the chalice was taken away quite from the laity , without any great opposition , except what was made in bohemia . next to this , let us consider how naturally all men are apt to be fond of their children , and not to suffer any thing to be denied them , by which they conceive they are advantaged : upon which one may reckon , once we are sure it was the universally received custom , for many ages , over the whole latine church , that all children had the eucharist given them immediately after they were baptized . and the rubrick of the roman missal ordered , they should not be suffered to suck after they were baptized , before they had the eucharist given them , except in cases of necessity . this order is believed to be a work of the eleventh century ; so lately was this thought necessary in the roman church . all men know how careful most parents , even such as have not much religion themselves , are , that nothing be wanting about their children ; and it was thought simply necessary to salvation that all persons had the eucharist . how many imaginary difficulties may one imagine might have obstructed the changing this custom ? one would expect to hear of tumults and stirs , and an universal conspiracy of all men to save this right of their children ? yet hugo de sancto victore tells us , how it was wearing out in his time ; and we find not the least opposition made to the taking it away . a third thing , to which it is not easie to apprehend how the vulgar should have consented , was , the denying them that right of nature and nations , that overy body should worship god in a known tongue . in this island , the saxons had the liturgy in their vulgar tongue ; and so it was also overall the world : and from this might not one very justly reckon up many high improbabilities to demonstrate the setting up the worship in an unknown tongue , could never be brought about , and yet we know it was done . in end , i shall name only one other particular , which seems very hard to be got changed , which yet we are sure was changed ; this was , the popular elections of the bishops and clergy , which , as is past dispute , were once in the hands of the people ; and yet they were got to part with them , and that at a time when church-preferments were raised very high in all secular advantages ; so that it may seem strange , they should then have been wrought upon to let go a thing , which all men are naturally inclined to desire an interest in ; and so much the more , if the dignity or riches of the function be very considerable ; and yet though we meet in church-history many accounts of tumults that were in those elections , while they were in the peoples hands ; yet i remember of no tumults made to keep them , when they were taken out of their hands . and now i leave it to every readers conscience , if he is not perswaded by all the conjectures he can make of mankind , that it is more hard to conceive , how these things , that have been named , of which the people had clear possession , were struck out , than that a speculative opinion , how absurd soever , was brought in , especially in such ages as these were , in which it was done . this leads me to the next thing , which is , to make some reflexions on those ages , in which this doctrine crept into the church . as long as the miraculous effusion of the holy ghost continued in the church , the simplicity of those that preached the gospel , was no small confirmation of that authority that accompanied them ; so that it was more for the honour of the gospel , that there were no great scholars or disputants to promote it : but when that ceased , it was necessary the christian religion should be advanced by such rational means as are suitable to the soul of man : if it had begun only upon such a foundation , men would not have given it a hearing ; but the miracles which were at first wrought , having sufficiently allarm'd the world , so that by them were inclined to hearken to it : then it was to be tried by those rules of truth and goodness , which lie engraven on all mens souls . and therefore it was necessary , those who defended it , should both understand it well , and likewise know all the secrets of heathenism , and of the greek philosophy . a knowledge in these being thus necessary , god raised up among the philosophers divers great persons , such as justin , clement , origen , and many others , whose minds being enlightned with the knowledge of the gospel , as well as endued with all other humane learning , they were great supports to the christian religion . afterwards many heresies being broached about the mysteries of the faith , chiefly those that relate to the son of god , and his incarnation , upon which followed long contests : for managing these , a full understanding of scripture was also necessary ; and that set all persons mightily to the study of the scriptures . but it is not to be denied , great corruptions did quickly break in , when the persecutions were over ; and the church abounded in peace and plenty ; not but that the doctrine was preserved pure long after that : there were also many shining lights , and great fathers , in that and in the following age ; yet from the fathers of these two ages , and from the great disorders were in some of their councils , as in the case of athanasiaus , and the second ephesin council , we may clearly see how much they were degenerating from the primitive purity . many contests were about the precedency of their sees , great ambition and contention appeared in their synods , which made nazianzen hate and shun them , expecting no good from them . these and such like things brought very heavy judgments and plagues on the church , and the whole roman empire , in the fifth century : for vast swarms of armies out of germany and the northern nations brake in upon the western empire , and by a long succession of new invaders all was sackt and ruined . the goths were followed by the vandals , the alains , the gepides , the franks , the sweves , the huns , and in the end the lombards . those nations were for the greatest part arrians , but all were barbarous and rude ; and their hatred of the faith , joyned to the barbarity of their tempers , set them with a strange fury on destroying the most sacred things . and to that we owe the loss of most of the primitive writings , and of all the authentical records of the first persecutions ; scarce any thing remaining , but what eusebius had before gathered together out of a former destruction was made of such things under diocletian . nor did the glory of the eastern empire long survive the western , that fell before these invaders : but in europe , by the impression of the bulgars ; and in asia , by the conquests made , first by the saracens , then by the turks , their greatness was soon broken ; though it lasted longer under that oppressed condition , than the other had done . thus was both the greek and the latine church brought under sad oppression and much misery . and every body knows , that the natural effect that state of life brings over the greatest minds , when there is no hope of getting from under it , is to take them off from study and learning ; and indeed to subdue their spirits as well as their bodies . and so it proved , for after that , an ignorance and dulness did to that degree overspread all europe , that it is scarce to be expressed . i do not deny , but there might be some few instances of considerable men , giving an allowance for the time they lived in . for the laity , they were bred up to think of nothing but to handle their arms , very few could so much as read ; and the clergy were not much better , read they could , but in many that was all ; a corrupt latin they understood , which continued to be the vulgar tongue in italy a great while after : they had heard of greek and hebrew , but understood them as little , as we do the mexican or peruvian tongue . they had scarce any knowledge of the greek fathers , a few very ill translations of some of them was all they had . the latin fathers were read by some of the more learned , but for any distinct understanding of scriptures , or the natures of things , god knows they had it not . i design a short discourse , and therefore shall not stay to make this out , which every body that has but looked a little on the writings of these ages , knows to be true . another effect of their ignorance was , that they were easily imposed on by supposititious writings , that went under the names of the fathers , but were none of theirs . gelasius threw out a great many that were breaking out in his time , but the trade was prosperous , and went on to that height , that it cost the criticks of these two last ages much pains to distinguish true from forged , and the genuine from what was interpolated . and indeed the popes were much beholden to the forgery of the decretal epistles , in which work a great many epistles were published by isidore in the eighth century , as the epistles of the popes of the first four centuries after christ : by which they were represented as giving orders , and making definitions over the whole church in a full form , and with the stile of an absolute authority . these were rejected by many , but mightily supported by all the flatterers of the court of rome ; so that they were in the end after some contest generally received , and held presidents to the succeeding popes , who wrote very skilfully after that copy . many other forgeries were also much cherished , which i shall instance only in one other particular , that relates to what is now in my eye . a sermon of arnold of bonneval ( which is now proved clearly to be his ) was published in st. cyprian's works as his sermon of the supper of our lord , though this arnold lived about nine hundred years after him . now such a sermon being generally read as st. cyprian's , no wonder it gave that doctrine of transubstantiation great credit . these writings are now discovered to be such forgeries , that all considering men of their own church are ashamed of them , and disown them . so do baronius and bellarmin the decretals ; and sirmondus , launnoy , and many more , reject other forgeries . yet here is a high pitch of impudence that most of all their writers of controversie are guilty of , to cite these very writings ( which are now universally agreed to be spurious ) still under those great names , which forgery gave them . as the author of that letter about transubstantiation , cites a passage from st. cyprian's sermon de coena domini , though it is agreed to by sixtus senensis , possevin , bellarmin , raynaud , and labbe , to be none of his ; and the publishers of the office of the sacrament , in the table at the end of it , acknowledge it was written by arnold of bonneval , a friend of st. bernard's . after these authorities it is indeed strange , that such sophisticated stuff should be over and over again offered to us . and it was no wonder , such forgeries were generally received , when that church gave them such authority , as to take many lessons out of the most spurious legends and put them in their breviary . of all these dark ages , the tenth was certainly the midnight of the church : we have scarce any writer for that whole age , so that it is generally called the iron age , an age of darkness and wickedness ; and therefore a very fit time for superstition and errour to work in . and thence we may well infer , that in ages that were so exceeding ignorant , and in which men scarce thought of religion , it was no hard thing to get any errour received and established . but this is not all . these were also ages of great licentiousness and disorder ; for though the barbarous nations were afterwards converted to the orthodox faith , ( though by the way it were easie to shew these conversions had nothing like the first conversion of the world to christianity in them ) yet their barbarity remained with them , and the churchmen became so corrupt and vicious , that they could not have a face to reprove them for those vices , of which themselves were scandalously guilty . from the sixth century downward what a race of men have the popes been ? chiefly in the ninth and tenth century . and indeed any religion that remained in the world had so retired into cloysters and monasteries , that very little of it remained . these houses were seminaries of some devotion , while they were poor and busied at work , according to their first foundation ; but when they were well endowed , and became rich , they grew a scandal to all christendom . all the primitive discipline was laid down , children were put into the highest preferments of the church , and simony over-run the church . these are matters of fact , that cannot be so much as questioned , nor should i , if put to prove them , seek authorities for them any where else than in baronius ; who , for all his design to serve the interest of that church , yet could not prevaricate so far , as to conceal things that are so openly and uncontestedly true . now from the darkness and corruption of these ages , i presume to offer some things to the readers consideration . first , ignorance alwayes inclines people to be very easie to trust those , in whom they have confidence ; for being either unwilling to trouble themselves with painful and sollicitous enquiries , or unable to make them , they take things on trust , without any care to search into them . but this general maxim must needs be much more certain , when subjection to the church , and the belief of every thing established , was made a very substantial part of religion , or rather that alone which might compense all other defects . secondly , ignorance naturally inclines people to superstition , to be soon wrought on , and easily amused , to be full of fears , and easie to submit to any thing that may any way overcome these fears . a right sense of god and divine matters , makes one have such a taste of religion , that he is not at all subject to this distemper , or rather monster , begotten by the unnatural commixture of some fear of god and love of sin , both being disordered by much ignorance ; hence sprang most of the idolatrous rites of heathenism , and all people so tempered are fit for the like humour to work upon . thirdly , the interests of church-men , led them mightily to study the setting this opinion on foot . this alone set them as high , as mortal men could be , and made them appear a most sacred sort of a creature . all the wonders of the prophets and apostles were but sorry matters to it : what was moses calling for manna from heaven and water from the rock ? elija's bringing sometimes fire and sometimes rain from heaven ? what were the apostles raising the dead , giving sight to the blind , and feet to the lame ? to the annihilating the substance of bread and wine , and bringing in their stead , not some other common matter , but the flesh and blood of the ever-blessed jesus . he who could do this , no wonder he were reverenced , enriched , secure from all danger , exempt from all civil jurisdiction , and cherished with all imaginable respect and kindness . so that it is no strange thing , that churchmen were much inclined to favour an opinion , that favoured their interests so much . fourthly , the churchmen of these ages were very likely to be easily drawn to any thing , which might so much advance their designs ; that were grown very high , especially from the days of pope gregory the great . they were struggling with the civil powers for dominion , and pursued that for many years , and spared neither labour nor the lives of men to attain it . and it is not to be thought , but men who did prodigally throw away many thousands in a quarrel , would without very nice disputing , cherish any opinion that might contribute toward that end . and as this was of great use to them , so they very much needed both it , and all such like shifts ; for they had none of that sublime sanctity , nor high learning , or lofty eloquence , which former churchmen had , and by which they had acquired great esteem in the world. now the churchmen in these days , having a great mind to preserve or rather to encrease that esteem ; but wanting those qualities which on a reasonable account might have acquired it , or preserved it , must needs think of somewhat else to do it by ; and so found out many arts for it , such as the belief of purgatory , the priestly absolution upon confession , together with the reserved cases , indulgences , and the popes power of taking souls out of purgatory . and if it be not full as unreasonable , to think the pope should be believed vested with a power of pardoning sin , and redeeming from purgatory , as that transubstantiation should have been received , let any man judge . fifthly , there was such a vast number of agents and emissaries sent from rome , to all the parts of europe , to carry on their designs , that we can hardly think it possible any thing could have withstood them . in such ages , by giving some terrible name to any thing , it was presently disgraced with the vulgar ; a clear instance of this was the fate of the married clergy . gregory the seventh , who as cardinal benno ( who knew him ) represents him , was one of the worst men that ever was born , and first set on foot the popes pretensions to the civil authority , and the power of deposing princes , and putting others in their places ; did prosecute the married clergy with great vehemency . this he could not do on any pious or chaste account , being so vile a man as he was : but being resolved to bring all princes to depend on him , there was no way so like to attain that , as to have all the clergy absolutely subject to him : this could not be hoped for , while they were married , and that the princes and several states of europe had such a pawn of their fidelity , as their wives and children ; therefore because the persons of the clergy were accounted sacred , and liable to no punishment , that there might be nothing so nearly related to them , wherein they might be punished , as their wives and children , he drave this furiously on ; and to give them some ill favoured name , called them nicolaitans , which are represented in the revelation so vile and odious . this was the most unjust thing in the world : they might have called them pharisees or sadducees as well , for all the ancient writers tell us , that nicolas having a beautiful wife was jealous , and the apostles challenging him of it , he said , he was so far from it , that he was willing to make her common , and thence some set up the community of wives , and were from him called the nicolaitans . but because women and marriage were in the case , and it was a hateful word , this was the name by which the married clergy were every where made so odious ; and though it was much the interest of princes to have had the marriage of the clergy to be left free , yet the popes were too hard for them in it . thus were the agents of rome able to prevail in every thing they set themselves to . so the opposers of this doctrine were called by the hateful names of stercoranists and panites . sixthly , when all religion was placed in externals , and splendid rites and ceremonies came to be generally looked on as the whole business of religion , peoples minds were by that much disposed to receive anything , that might introduce external pomp and grandeur into their churches ; being willing to make up in an outward appearance of worshipping the person of christ , what was wanting in their obedience to his gospel . and now i appeal to any honest man , if upon the suppositions i have laid down , it be at all an unaccountable thing , that a great company of ignorant and debauched clergymen , should set themselves to cherish and advance a belief , which would redeem them from all the infamy their other vices were ready to bring upon them ; and they resolving on it , if it was hard for them , especially in a course of some ages , to get an ignorant , credulous , superstitious , and corrupt multitude , to receive it without much noise or adoe . i believe no man will deny , but upon these suppositions the thing was very like to succeed . now that all these suppositions are true ( to wit ) that both clergy and laity in those ages , chiefly in the ninth , tenth , and eleventh centuries , were ignorant , and vicious to the height ; is a thing so generally known , and so universally confessed by all their own historians , that i hardly think any man will have brow enough to deny it . but there are many other things , which will also shew how possible , nay feasible such a change may be . first , this having never been condemned by a formal decision in any former age , it was more easie to get it brought in ; for no council or father could condemn or write against any errour , but that which was maintained or abetted by some man , or company of men , in or before their time . since then this had not been broached in the former ages , the promoters of it had this advantage , that no former decision had been made against them ; for none ever thought of condemning any heresie before it had a being . secondly , this errour did in the outward found agree with the words of the institution , and the forms used in the former liturgies , in which the elements were said to be changed into the true and undefiled body of christ. a doctrine then that seemed to establish nothing contrary to the ancient liturgies , might easily have been received , in an age , in which the outward sound and appearance was all they looked to . thirdly , the passage from the believing any thing in general , with an indistinct and confused apprehension , to any particular way of explaining it , is not at all hard to be conceived , especially in an age , that likes every thing the better , the more mysterious it seem . in the preceding ages , it was in general received , that christ was in the sacrament , and that by the consecration the elements were changed into his body and blood. and although many of the fathers did very formally explain in what sense christ was present , and the elements were changed , yet there having been no occasion given to the church , to make any formal decision about the manner of it , every one thought he was left at liberty to explain it as he pleased . and we may very reasonably suppose , that many did not explain it at all , especially in these ages , in which there was scarce any preaching or instructing the people . by this means the people did believe christ was in the sacrament , and that the elements were changed into his body and blood , without troubling themselves to examin how it was , whether spiritually or corporally . things being brought to this , in these ages , by the carelesness of the clergy , the people were by that , sufficiently disposed to believe any particular manner of that presence , or change , their pastors might offer to them . fourthly , there being no visible change made in any part of the worship ; when this doctrine was first brought in , it was easie to innovate , in these ages , in which people looked only at things that were visible and sensible : had they brought in the adoration , processions , or other consequences of this doctrine along with it , it was like to have made more noise ; for people are apt to be startled when they see any notable change in their worship : but this belief was first infufed in the people , and berengarius was condemned . the council of lateran had also made the decree about it , before ever there were any of these signal alterations attempted . and after that was done , then did honorius decree the adoration ; and urban the fourth , upon some pretended visions of eve julian , and isabella , did appoint the feast of the body of christ , called now generally , the feast of god , or corpus christi feast ; which was confirmed by pope clement the fifth , in the council of vienna ; and ever since that time they have been endeavouring by all the devices possible ; to encrease the devotion of the people to the hoft . so that mr. arnaud in many places acknowledges they are most gross idolaters if their doctrine be not true , which i desire may be well considered , since it is the opinion of one of the most considering and wisest , and most learned persons of that communion , who has , his whole life set his thoughts chiefly to the examining of this sacrament , and knows as well as any man alive , what is the real sense of the worshippers in that church . but to return to that i am about , it is very unreasonable to think that the people in those dark ages , did concern themselves in the speculative opinions were among divines , so that the vulgar could not busie themselves about it , but when this opinion was decreed , and generally received and infused in the laity , for almost one age together , then we need not wonder to see notable alterations following upon it , in their worship , without any opposition or contest ; for it was very reasonable such consequences should have followed such a doctrine . but that before that time there was no adoration of the elements , is a thing so clear , that it is impudence to deny it ; there was no prostration of the body , or kneeling to be made , either on lords dayes , or all the time between easter and pentecost , by the twentieth canon of the council of nice . none of the ancient liturgies do so much as mention it ; but the contrary is plainly insinuated by s. cyril of ierusalem . none of that great number of writers about divine offices , that lived in the seventh , eighth , ninth and tenth centuries , published by hittorpius , so much as mention it : though they be very particular in giving us an account of the most inconsiderable parts of the divine offices , and of all the circumstances of them , honorius when he first decreed it , does not alledge presidents for it ; but commands the priests to tell the people to do it ; whereas , if it had been appointed before , he must rather have commanded the priests to have told the people of their sacrilegious contempt of the body of christ , notwithstanding the former laws and practice of the church : but it is apparent his way of enjoyning it , is in the style of one that commands a new thing , and not that sets on the execution of what was formerly used : yet this was more warily appointed by honorius , who enjoyned only an inclination of the head to the sacrament ; but it was set up bare faced by his successor gregory the ninth , who appointed ( as the historians tell us , though it be not among his decretals ) a bell to be rung , to give notice at the consecration and elevation , that all who heard it , might kneel , and joyn their hands in adoring the host. so that any passages of the fathers that speak of adoration or veneration to the sacrament , must either be understood of the inward adoration the communicant offers up to god the father , and his blessed son , in the commemoration of so great a mystery of love , as appeared in his death , then represented and remembred . or these words are to be taken in a large sense , and so we find , they usually called the gospels , their bishops , baptism , the pascha , and almost all other sacred things , venerable . and thus from many particulars it is apparent , that the bringing in the doctrine of transubstantiation is no unaccountable thing . but i shall pursue this yet further , for the readers full satisfaction , and shew the steps by which this doctrine was introduced . we find in the church of corinth the receiving the sacrament was looked on , but as a common entertainment , and was gone about without great care or devotion , which s. paul charges severely on them ; and tells them what heavy judgments had already fallen on them , for such abuses , and that heavier ones might be yet looked for , since they were guilty of the body and blood of the lord , by their unworthy receiving . upon this the whole christian church was set to consider , in very good earnest , how to prepare themselves aright for so holy an action ; and the receiving the sacrament , as it was the greatest symbole of the love of christians , so it was the end of all penitence , that was enjoyned for publick or private sins , but chiefly for apostacy , or the denying the faith , and complying with idolatry in the times of persecution . therefore the fathers considering both the words of the institution , and s. paul's epistle to the corinthians , did study mightily to awaken all to great preparation and devotion , when they received the sacrament . for all the primitive devotion about the sacrament , was only in order to the receiving it ; and that modern worship of the church of rome , of going to hear mass without receiving , was a thing so little understood by them , that as none were suffered to be present in the action of the mysteries , but those who were qualified to receive ; so if any such had gone out of the church without participating , they were to be separated from the communion of the church , as the authors of disorder in it . upon this subject the fathers employed all their eloquence ; and no wonder , if we consider that it is such a commemoration of the death of christ as does really communicate to the worthy receiver his crucified body , and his blood that was shed ( mark , not his glorified body , as it is now in heaven ) which is the fountain and channel of all other blessings , but is only given to such ; as being prepared according to the rules of the gospel , sincerely believe all the mysteries of faith , and live suitably to their belief . both the advantages of worthy receiving , and the danger of unworthy receiving being so great , it was necessary for them to make use of all the faculties they had , either for awakening reverence and fear , that the contemptible elements of bread and wine , might not bring a cheapness and disesteem upon these holy mysteries , or for perswading their communicants to all serious and due preparation , upon so great an occasion . this being then allowed , it were no strange thing , though in their sermons , or other devout treatises , they should run out to meditations that need to be mollified with that allowance that must be given to all panegyricks or perswasives : where many things are always said , that if right understood , have nothing in them to startle any body , but if every phrase be examined grammatically , there would be many things found in all such discourses , that would look very hideously . is it not ordinary in all the festivities of the church , as s. austin observed on this very occasion , to say , this day christ was born , or died , or rose again in 〈◊〉 and yet that must not be taken literally . beside , when we hear or read any expressions that sound high or big , we are to consider the ordinary stile of him that uses these expressions ; for if upon all other occasions he be apt to rise high in his figures , we may the less wonder at some excesses of his stile . if then such an orator as s. chrysostome was , who expatiates on all subjects , in all the delighting varieties of a fertile phancy , should on so great a subject , display all the beauties of that ●avishing art in which he was so great a master , what wonder is it . therefore great allowances must be made in such a case . further , we must also consider the tempers of those to whom any discourse is addressed . many things must be said in another manner to work on novices , or weak persons , than were fit or needful for men of riper and stronger understandings . he would take very ill measures , that would judge of the future state , by these discourses in which the sense of that is infused in younger or weaker capacities ; therefore though in some catechismes that were calculated for the understandings of children and novices , such as s. cyril's , there be some high expressions used , it is no strange thing ; for naturally all men on such occasions , use the highest and biggest words they can invent . but we ought also to consider , what persons have chiefly in their eye , when they speak to any point : for all men , especially when their fancies are inflamed with much fervor , are apt to look only to one thing at once ; and if a visible danger appear of one side , and none at all on the other , then it is natural for every one to exceed on that side , where there is no danger . so that the hazard of a contempt of the sacrament being much and justly in their eye , and they having no cause to apprehend any danger on the other side , of excessive adoring or magnifying it : no wonder , if in some of their discourses , an immoderate use of the counterpoise , had inclined them to say many things of the sacrament , that require a fair and candid interpretation . yet after all this , they say no more , but that in the sacrament they did truly and really communicate on the body and blood of christ ; which we also receive and believe . and in many other treatises , when they are in colder blood , examining things , they use such expressions and expositions of this , as no way favour the belief of transubstantiation ; of which we have given some account in a former paper . but though that were not so formally done , and their writings were full of passages that needed great allowances , it were no more than what the fathers that wrote against the arrians , confess the fathers before the council of nice , were guilty of ; who writing against sabellius , with too much vehemence , did run to the opposite extream . so many of s. cyril's passages against nestorius , were thought to favour eutychianism . so also theodoret , and two others , writing against the eutychians , did run to such excesses , as drew upon them the condemnation of the fifth general council . the first time we find any contestor canvassing about the sacrament , was in the controversie about images , in the eighth century , that the council of constantinople , in the condemning of images , declared , there was no other image of christ to be received , but the blessed sacrament ; in which , the substance of bread and wine was the image of the body and blood of christ ; making a difference between that which is christs body by nature , and the sacrament , which is his body by institution . now it is to be considered , that , whatever may be pretended of the violence of the greek emperors over-ruling that council in the matter of condemning images ; yet there having been no contest at all about the sacrament , we cannot in reason think they would have brought it into the dispute , if they had not known these two things were the received doctrine of the church : the one , that in the sacrament , the substance of bread and wine did remain ; the other , that the sacrament was the image or figure of christ ; and from thence they acknowledged , all images were not to be rejected , but denied any other images besides that in the sacrament . now the second council of nice , being resolved to quarrel with them as much as was possible , doe not at all condemn them for that which is the chief testimony for us ( to wit ) that the sacrament was still the substance of bread and wine ; and damascene , the zealous defender of images , clearly insinuates his believing the substance of bread and wine remained , and did nourish our bodies . let it be therefore considered , that when that council of nice was in all the bitterness imaginable canvassing every word of the council of constantinople , they never once blame them for saying , the substance of bread and wine was in the sacrament . it is true , they condemned them for saying the sacrament was the image of christ , denying that any of the fathers had called it so ; alledging that the symboles were called antitypes by the fathers , only before the consecration , and not after ; in which they followed damascene , who had fallen in the same errour before them . but this is so manifest a mistake in matter of fact , that it gives a just reason for rejecting the authority of that council , were there no more to be said against it : for this was either very gross ignorance , or effronted impudence , since in above twenty fathers that were before them , the sacrament is called the figure and antitype of christ's body ; and at the same time , that damascene , who was then looked on as the great light of the east , did condemn the calling the sacrament , the figure of christ's body . the venerable bede , that was looked on as the great light of the west , did according to the stile of the primitive church , and in s. austin's words , call it , the figure of christ's body . i shall not trace the other forgeries and follies of that pretended general council , because i know a full account of them is expected from a better pen ; only in this particular i must desire the reader to take notice , that the council of constantinople did not innovate any thing in the doctrine about the sacrament ; and did use it as an argument in the other controversie concerning images , without any design at all about the eucharist . but on the other hand , the second council of nice did innovate and reject a form of speech , which had been universally received in the church , before their time ; and being engaged with all possible spight against the council of constantinople , resolved to contradict every thing they had said , as much as could be : so that in this we ought to look on the council of constantinople , as delivering what was truly the tradition of the church , and on the second council of nice , as corrupting it . about thirty years after that council , paschase radbert abbot of corbie , wrote about the sacrament , and did formally assert the corporal presence , in the ninth century . the greatest patrons of this doctrine , such as bellarmine and sirmondus , both jesuites , confess , he was the first that did fully and to purpose explain the verity of christ's body and blood in the eucharist . and paschase himself , in his letter to his friend frudegard , regrates that he was so slow in believing and assenting to his doctrine ; and does also acknowledge , that by his book he had moved many to the understanding of that mystery ; and it is apparent by that letter , that not only frudegard , but others were scandalized at his book , for he writes , i have spoken of these things more fully , and more expresly , because i understand that some challenge me , that in the book i have published of the sacraments of christ , i have ascribed either more or some other thing than is consonant to truth , to the words of our lord. of all the writers of that age , or near it , only one ( and his name we know not , the book being anonymous ) was of paschase's opinion . but we find all the great men of that age were of another mind , and did clearly assert , that in the sacrament , the substance of bread and wine remained , and did nourish our bodies as other meats do . these were rabanus maur●s , archbishop of mentz , amalarius , archbishop of treves , or as others say , metz , heribald , bishop of auxerre , bertram , iohn scot erigena , walafridus strabo , florus and christian druthmar . and three of these set themselves on purpose to refute paschase . the anonymous writer that defends him , sayes , that raban did dispute at length against him in an epistle to abbot egilon , for saying it was that body that was born of the virgin , and was crucified , and raised again , that was daily offered for the life of the world. that is also condemned by raban in his penitential , cap. . who refers his reader to that epistle to abbot egilon . and for bertram , he was commanded by charles the bald , then emperor , to write upon that matter , which in the beginning of his book he promises to do , not trusting to his own wit , but following the steps of the holy fathers . it is also apparent by his book , that there were at that time different perswasions about the body of christ in the sacrament ; some believing it was there without any figure ; others saying , it was there in a figure and mystery . upon which he apprehended , there must needs follow a great schism . and let any read paschase's book , and after that bertram's , and if he have either honesty , or at least , shame remaining in him , he must see it was in all points the very same controversie that was canvassed then between them , and is now debated between the church of rome and us . now that raban and bertram were two of the greatest and most learned men of that age , cannot be denied : raban passes without contest amongst the first men of the age ; and for bertram , we need neither cite what trithemius sayes of him , nor what the disciples of s. austin , in the port-royal , have said to magnifie him , when they make use of him to establish the doctrine of the efficacy of grace . it is a sufficient evidence of the esteem he was in , that he was made choice of by the bishop of france , to defend the latine church against the greeks ; and upon two very important controversies that were moved in that age ; the one being about predestination and grace , the other , that which we have now before us , he , though a private monk , raised to no dignity , was commanded by the emperor to write of both these ; which no man can imagine had been done , if he had not been a man much famed and esteemed ; and way in which he writes , is solid and worthy of the reputation he had acquired : he proves both from the words of institution , and from s. paul , that the sacrament was still bread and wine . he proves from s. austin , that these were mysteries and figures of christ's body and blood. and indeed considering that age , he was an extraordinary writer . the third that did write against paschase , was iohn scot , otherwise called erigena , who was likewise commanded to write about the sacrament , by that same emperor . he was undoubtedly the most learned and ingenious man of that age , as all our english historians tell us ; chiefly william of malmsbury : he was in great esteem both with the emperor , and our great king alfred . he was accounted a saint and a martyr ; his memory was celebrated by an anniversary on the tenth of november . he was also very learned in the greek , and other oriental tongu●s , which was a rare thing in that age. this erigena did formally refute paschase's opinion & assert ours . it is true , his book is now lost , being years after burned by the c. of vercel ; but though the church of lyons does treat him very severely in their book against him , and fastens many strange opinions upon him , in which there are good grounds to think they did him wrong ; yet they no where chalenge him for what he wrote about the sacrament ; which shews they did not condemn him for that ; though they speak of him with great animosity , because he had written against predestination and grace efficacious of it self , which they defended . it seems most probable that it was from his writings , that the homily read at easter by the saxons here in england , does so formally contradict the doctrine of transubstantiation . and now let the reader judge , if it be not clear that paschase did innovate the doctrine of the church in this point , but was vigorously opposed by all the great men of that age. for the following age , all historians agree , it was an age of most prodigious ignorance and debauchery , and that amongst all sorts of people , none being more signally vicious than the clergy ; and of all the clergy , none so much as the popes , who were such a succession of monsters , that baronius cannot forbear making the saddest exclamations possible concerning their cruelties , debaucheries , and other vices : so that , then , if at any time , we may conclude all were asleep , and no wonder if the tares paschase had sown , did grow up ; and yet of the very few writings of the age that remain , the far greater number seem to favour the doctrine of bertram . but till berengarius his time , we hear nothing of any contest about the eucharist . so here were two hundred years spent in an absolute ignorance and forgetfulness of all divine things . about the middle of the th . cent. bruno bishop of angiers , and berengarius , who was born in towrs , but was arch-deacon and treasurer of the church of angiers , did openly teach , that christ was in the sacrament only in a figure . we hear little more of bruno ; but berengarius is spoken of by many historians , as a man of great learning and piety , and that when he was cited to the council at rome , before nicolaus the second , none could resist him ; that he had an excellent faculty of speaking , and was a man of great gravity ; that he was held a saint by many : he did abound in charity , humility , and good works , and was so chast , that he would not look at a beautiful woman . and hildebert bishop of mans , whom s. bernard commends highly , made such an epitaph on him , that notwithstanding all the abatements we must make for poetry , yet no man could write so of an ordinary person . this berengarius wrote against the corporal presence , calling it a stupidity of paschase's and lanfrank's , who denied that the substance of bread and wine remained after consecration . he had many followers , as sigebert tells us : and william of malmesbury and matthew paris tell us his doctrine had overspred all france . it were too long to shew with what impudent corrupting of antiquity those who wrote against him , did stuff up their books . divers councils were held against him , and he through fear , did frequently waver ; for when other arguments proved too weak to convince him , then the faggot , which is the sure and beloved argument of that church , prevailed on his fears ; so that he burnt his own book , and signed the condemnation of his own opinion at rome ; this he did , as lanfranke upbraids him , not for love of the truth , but for fear of death : which shewes he had not that love of the truth , and constancy of mind he ought to have had . but it is no prejudice against the doctrine he taught , that he was a man not only subject to , but overcome by so great a temptation ; for the fear of death is natural to all men . and thus we see , that in the ninth century our doctrine was taught by the greatest writers of that time , so that it was then generally received , and not at all condemned either by pope or council . but in the eleventh century , upon its being defended , it was condemned . can there be therefore any thing more plain , than that there was a change made , and that what in the one age was taught by a grea number of writers , without any censure upon it , was in another age anathematized ? is there not then here a clear change ? and what has been done , was certainly possible , from whence we conclude with all the justice and reason in the world , that a change was not only possible , but was indeed made . and yet the many repeated condemnations of berengarius , shew , his doctrine was too deeply rooted in the minds of that age , to be very easily suppressed ; for to the end of the eleventh century , the popes continued to condemn his opinions , even after his death . in the beginning of the twelfth century , honorius of autun , who was a considerable man in that age , did clearly assert the doctrine of the sacraments nourishing our bodies , and is acknowledged by thomas waldensis , to have been a follower of berengarius his heresie . and about the eighteenth year of that age , that doctrine was embraced by great numbers in the south of france , who were from their several teachers called petrobrusians , henricians , waldenses , and from the countrey , where their numbers were greatest , albigenses ; whose confession , dated the year , bears , that the eating of the sacramental bread , was the eating of iesus christ in a figure ; jesus christ having said , as oft as ye do this , do it in remembrance of me . it were needless to engage in any long account of these people ; the writers of those times have studied to represent them in as hateful and odious characters , as it was possible for them to devise ; and we have very little remaining that they wrote . yet as the false witnesses that were suborned to lay heavy things to our blessed saviour's charge , could not agree among themselves ; so for all the spite with which these writers prosecute those poor innocents , there are such noble characters given , even by these enemies , of their piety , their simplicity , their patience , constancy , and other virtues ; that as the apologists for christianity , do justly glory in the testimonies pliny , lucian , tacitus , iosephus , and other declared enemies give ; so any that would study to redeem the memory of those multitudes , from the black aspersions of their foul-mouthed enemies , would find many passages among them to glory much in , on their behalf , which are much more to be considered than those virulent calumnies with which they labour to blot their memories : but neither the death of peter de bruis , who was burnt , nor all the following cruelties , that were as terrible as could be invented by all the fury of the court of rome , managed by the inquisitions of the dominicans , whose souls were then as black as their garments , could bear down or extinguish that light of the truth , in which what was wanting in learning , wit , or order , was fully made up in the simplicity of their manners , and the constancy of their sufferings . and it were easie to shew , that the two great things they were most persecuted for , were their refusing subjection to the see of rome , and their not believing the doctrine of the corporal presence ; nor were they confined to one corner of france only , but spred almost all europe over . in that age steven bishop in edue● is the first i ever find cited to have used the word transubstantiation , who expressly sayes , that the oblation of bread and wine is transubstantiated into the body and blood of christ : some place him in the beginning , some in the middle of that age ; for there were two bishops of that see , both of the same name ; the one , anno . the other , . and which of the two it was , is not certain ; but the master of the sentences was not so positive , and would not determine , whether christ was present formally , substantially , or some other way . but in the beginning of the thirteenth century , one amalric ; or almaric , who was in great esteem for learning , did deny transubstantiation , saying , that the body of christ was no more in the consecrated bread , than in any other bread , or any other thing ; for which he was condemned in the fourth council of lateran , and his body , which was buried in paris , was taken up and burnt ; and then was it decreed , that the body and blood of christ were truly contained under the kinds ( or species ) of bread and wine , the bread being transubstantiated into the body , and the wine into the blood. all the while this doctrine was carried on , it was managed with all the ways possible , that might justly create a prejudice against them who set it forward ; for besides many ridiculous lying wonders , that were forged to make it more easily believed by a credulous and superstitious multitude , the church of rome did discover a cruelty and blood-thirstiness which no pen is able to set out to the full . what burnings and tortures , and what croiss●des as against infidels and mahumetans , did they set on against those poor innocent companies , whom they with an enraged , wolvish and barbarous bloodiness studied to destroy ? this was clearly contrary to the laws of humanity , the rules of the gospel , and the gentleness of christ : how then could such companies of wolves pretend to be the followers of the lamb. in the primitive church , the bishops that had prosecuted the priscillanists before the emperor maximus , to the taking away their lives were cast out of the communion of the church ; but now did these that still pretended to be christ's vicars , shew themselves in antichrist's colours , dipt in blood . if then any of that church that live among us , plead for pity , and the not executing the laws , and if they blame the severity of the statutes against themselves , let them do as becomes honest men , and without disguise , disown and condemn those barbarities , and them that were the promoters and pursuers of them ; for those practices have justly filled the world with fears and jealousies of them , that how meekly soever they may now whine under the pretended oppression of the laws , they would no sooner get into power , but that old leaven not being yet purged out of their hearts , they would again betake themselves to fire and faggot , as the unanswerable arguments of their church : and so they are only against persecution , because they are not able to persecute ; but were they the men that had the power , it would be again a catholick doctrine and practice : but when they frankly and candidly condemn those practices and principles , they will have somewhat to plead , which will in reason prevail more than all their little arts can do to procure them favour . it was this same council of lateran , that established both cruelty , persecution and rebellion into a law , appointing , that all princes should exterminate all hereticks ( this is the mercy of that church which all may look for , if ever their power be equal to their malice ) and did decree , that if any temporal lord being admonished by the church , did neglect to purge his lands , he should be first excommunicated , and if he continued a year in his contempt & contumacy , notice was to be given of it to the pope , who from that time forth should declare his vassals absolved from the fidelity they owed him , and expose his lands to be invaded by catholicks , who might possess them without any contradiction , having exterminated the hereticks out of them , and so preserve them in the purity of the faith. this decree was made on the account of raimond count of tholouse , who favoured the albigenses , that were his subjects ; and being a peer of france according to the first constitution under hugo capet king of france , was such a prince in his own dominions , as the princes of germany now are . he was indeed the king of france his vassal ; but it is clear from the history of that time , that the king of france would not interpose in that business . yet the popes in this same council of lateran , did by the advice of the council , give to simon montfort ( who was general of the croissade , that the pope sent against that prince ) all the l●nds that were taken from the count of tholouse . so that there was an invasion both of the count of tholouse , and of the king of france his rights . for if that prince had done any thing amiss , he was only accountable to the king , and the other peers of france . this decree of the council is published by dom. luc. dachery ; so that it is plain , that the pope got here a council ●o set up rebellion by authori●y , against the express rules of the gospel , this almost their whole church accounts a general council , a few only among us excepted , who know not how to approve themselves good subjects , if they own that a general council , which does so formally establish treasonable and seditious principles . for if it be true , that a general council making a definition in an article of faith , is to be followed and submitted to by all men , the same arguments will prove that in any controverted practical opinion , we ought not to trust our own reasons , but submit to the definition of the church ; for if in this question a private person shall rest on his own understanding of the scriptures , and reject this decree , why may he not as well in other things assume the same freedom . it is true , the words of the decree seem only to relate to temporal lords , that were under soveraign princes , such as the count of tholouse , and therefore crowned heads need fear nothing from it : but though the decree runs chiefly against such , yet there are two clauses in it that go further , one is in these words , saving alwayes the right of the principal lord , provided he make no obstacle about it , nor cast in any impediment . whence it plainly follows , that if the soveraign , such as the king of france , in the case of tholouse , did make any obstacle , he forfeited his right . the other clause is in these words , the same law being nevertheless observed about those who have no principal lords . in which are clearly included all those soveraigns , who depend and hold their crowns immediately from god. now it is apparent , the design of these words so couched , was once to bring all soveraigns under that lash , before they were aware of it ; for had they named emperors and kings , they might reasonably have expected great opposition from them ; but insinuating it so covertly , it would pass the more easily : yet it is plain , nothing else can be meant , or was intended by it ; so that it is clear , that the fourth council of lateran , as it established transubstantiation , so did also decree both persecution and rebellion : therefore the reader may easily judge , what account is to be made of that council , and what security any state can have of those who adhere to it . our saviour when he states the opposition between the children of god , and the children of the devil , he gives this for the character of the latter , that they did the works of their father ; and these he mentions are lying and murdering : we have seen sufficient evidence of the murdering spirit which acted in that church , when this doctrine was set up . but to compleat that black character , let us but look over to the council of constance , which decreed that bold violation of the command of christ , drink ye all of it ; by taking the chalice from the laity : and there we find perfidy , which is the basest and worst kind of lying , also established by law : for it was decreed by them , that all safe conducts notwithstanding , or by what bonds soever any prince had engaged himself , the council was no way prejudiced , and that the iudge competent might enquire into their errors ; and proceed otherwise duly against them , and punish them according to iustice , if they stubbornly refuse to retract their errours , although trusting to their safe conduct , they had come to the place of iudgment , and had not come without it ; and declare , that whoever had promised any such thing to them , having done what in him lay , was under no further obligation . upon which , sigismund broke his faith to iohn hus and ierome of prague , and they were burnt . so that their church , having in general councils decreed both perfidy and cruelty , it is easie to infer by what spirit they are acted , and whose works they did . if then they did the works of the devil , who was a liar and murderer from the beginning , they cannot be looked on as the children of god , but as the children of the devil . if this seem too severe , it is nothing but what the force of truth draws from me , being the furthest in the world from that uncharitable temper of aggravating things beyond what is just ; but the truth must be heard , and the lamb of god could call the scribes and pharisees , a generation of vipers and children of the devil . therefore if a church be so notoriously guilty of the most infamous violation of all the laws of humanity , and the security which a publick faith must needs give , none is to be blamed for laying open and exposing such a society to the just censure of all impartial persons , that so every one may see what a hazard his soul runs by engaging in the communion of a church that is so foully guilty : for these were not personal failings , but were the decrees of an authority which must be acknowledged by them infallible , if they be true to their own principles . so that if they receive these as general councils , i know not how they can clear all that communion from being involved in the guilt of what they decreed . thus far we hope it hath been made evident enough , that there are no impossibilities in such a change of the doctrine of the church about this sacrament , as they imagine . and that all these are but the effects of wit and fancy , and vanish into nothing when closely canvassed . i have not dwelt so long on every step of the history i have vouched , as was necessary , designing to be as short as was possible , and because these things have been at full length set down by others , and particularly in that great and learned work of albertin a french minister concerning this sacrament ; in which the doctrines of the primitive church and the steps of the change that was made , are so laid open , that no man has yet so much as attempted the answering him : and those matters of fact are so uncontestedly true , that there can be little debate about them , but what may be very soon cleared , and i am ready to make all good to a tittle when any shall put me to it . it being apparent then , that the church of rome has usurped an undue and unjust authority over the other states and nations of christendom , and has made use of this dominion to introduce many great corruptions both in the faith , the worship , and government of the church ; nothing remains but to say a little to justify this churches reforming these abuses . and , first , i suppose it will be granted that a national church may judge a doctrine to be heretical , when its opposition to the scripture , reason , and the primitive doctrine is apparent : for in that case the bishops and pastors being to feed and instruct the church , they must do it according to their consciences , otherwise how can they discharge the trust , god and the church commit to their charge ? and thus all the ancient hereticks , such as samosatenus , arrius , pelagius , and a great many more were first condemned in provincial councils . secondly , if such heresies be spread in places round about , the bishops of every church ought to do what they can to get others concur with them in the condemning them ; but if they cannot prevail , they ought nevertheless to purge themselves and their own church , for none can be bound to be damned for company . the pastors of every church owe a charity to their neighbour churches , but a debt to their own , which the stubborness of others canot excuse them from . and so those bishops in the primitive church , that were environed with arrians , did reform their own churches when they were placed in any sees that had been corrupted by arrianism . thirdly , no time can give prescription against truth , and therefore had any errour been ever so antiently received in any church , yet the pastors of that church finding it contrary to truth ought to reform it : the more antient or inveterate any errour is , it needs the more to be looked to . so those nations that were long bred up in arrianism , had good reason to reform from that errour . so the church of rome will ackowledge that the greek church , or our church ought to forsake their present doctrines , though they have been long received . fourthly , no later definitions of councils or fathers ought to derogate from the ancienter decrees of councils or opinions of the fathers ; otherwise the arrians had reason to have justified their submitting to the councils of sirmium , arimini , and millan , and rejecting that of nice : therefore we ought in the first place to consider the decrees and opinions of the most primitive antiquity . fifthly , no succession of bishops how clear so ever in its descent from the apostles , can secure a church from errour . which the church of rome must acknowledge , since they can neither deny the succession of the greek church , nor of the church of england . sixthly , if any church continues so hardned in their errours that they break communion with another church for reforming , the guilt of this breach must lie at their door who are both in the errour , and first reject the other , and refuse to reform or communicate with other churches . upon every one of these particulars ( and they all set together compleat the plea for the church of england ) i am willing to joyn issue , and shew they are not only true in themselves , but must be also acknowledged by the principles of the church of rome : so that if the grounds of controversy , on which our reformation did proceed , were good and justifiable , it is most unreasonable to say our church had not good right and authority to make it . it can be made appear that for above two hundred years before the reformation , there were general complaints among all sorts of pesons , both tho subtle schoolmen and devout contemplatives , both ecclesiasticks and laicks did complain of the corruptions of the church , and called aloud for a reformation both of faith and manners : even the council of pisa a little before luthers days , did decree , there should be a reformation both of faith and manners , and that both of the head and members . but all these complaints turned to nothing , abuses grew daily , the interests of the nephews and other corrupt intrigues of the court of rome always obstructing good motions and cherishing ill customs , for they brought the more grist to their mill. when a reformation was first called for in germany , instead of complying with so just a desire , all that the court of rome thought on , was how to suppress these complaints , and destroy those who made them . in end , when great commotions were like to follow , by the vast multitudes of those who concurred in this desire of reforming , a council was called , after the popes had frequently prejudged in the matter , and pope leo had with great frankness condemned most of luthers opinions . from that council no good could reasonably be expected , for the popes had already engaged so deep in the quarrel , that there was no retreating , and they ordered the matter so , that nothing could be done but what they had a mind to : all the bishops were at their consecration their sworn vassals : nothing could be brought into the council without the legates had proposed it . and when any good motions were made by the bishops of spain or germany , they had so many poor italian bishops kept there on the popes charges , that they were always masters of the vote : for before they would hold a session about any thing , they had so canvassed it in the congregations , that nothing was so much as put to the hazard . all these things appear even from cardinal pallavicini's history of that council . while this council was sitting , and some years before , many of this church were convinced of these corruptions , and that they could not with a good conscience joyn any longer in a worship so corrupted ; yet they were satisfied to know the truth themselves and to instruct others privately in it , but formed no separated church ; waiting for what issue god in his providence might bring about . but with what violence and cruelty their enemies , who were generally those of the clergy , pursued them , is well enough known : nor shall i repeat any thing of it , lest it might be thought an invidious aggravating of things that are past . but at length , by the death of king henry the eighth , the government fell in the hands of persons well affected to the reformation . it is not material what their true motives were , for jehu did a good work when he destroyed the idolatry of baal , though neither his motives nor method of doing it are justifiable : nor is it to the purpose to examine , how those bishops that reformed could have complied before with the corruptions of the roman church and received orders from them . meletius , and felix , were placed by the arrians , the one at antioch in the room of eustathius , the other at rome , in liberius his room , who were both banished for the faith : and yet both these were afterwards great defenders of the truth ; and felix was a martyr for it , against these very hereticks with whom they complied in the beginning . so whatever mixture of carnal ends might be in any of the secular men , or what allay of humane infirmity and fear might have been in any of the ecclesiasticks ; that can be no prejudice to the cause : for men are always men , and the power of god does often appear most eminently when there is least cause to admire the instruments he makes use of . but in that juncture of affairs the bishops and clergy of this church seeing great and manifest corruptions in it , and it being apparent that the church of rome would consent to no reformation to any good purpose , were obliged to reform , and having the authority of king and parliament concurring , they had betrayed their consciences and the charge of souls for which they stood engaged , and were to answer at the great day , if they had dallied longer , and not warned the people of their danger , and made use of the inclinations of the civil powers for carrying on so good a work . and it is the lasting glory of the reformation , that when they saw the heir of the crown was inflexibly united to the church of rome , they proceeded not to extream courses against her ; for what a few wrought on by the ambition of the duke of northumberland were got to do , was neither the deed of the nation , nor of the church , since the representatives of neither concurred in it . but the nation did receive the righteous heir : and then was our church crowned with the highest glory it could have desired , many of the bishops who had been most active in the reformation sealing it with their blood , and in death giving such evident proofs of holy and christian constancy , that they may be justly matched with the most glorious martyrs of the primitive church . then did both these churches appear in their true colours , that of rome weltring in the blood of the saints and insatiately drinking it up : and our church bearing the cross of christ and following his example . but when we were for some years thus tried in the fire , then did god again bless us with the protection of the rightful and lawful magistrate . then did our church do as the primitive church had done under theodosius , when she got out from a long and cruel persecution of the arrians under those enraged emperours constantius and valens . they reformed the church from the arrian doctrine , but would not imitate them in their persecuting spirit . and when others had too deep resentments of the ill usage they had met with under the arrian tyranny , nazianzen and the other holy bishops of that time did mitigate their animosities : so that the churches were only taken from the arrians , but no storms were raised against them . so in the beginning of queen elizabeths reign , it cannot be denied that those of that church were long suffered to live at quiet among us with little or no disturbance , save that the churches were taken out of their hands . nor were even those who had bathed themselves in so much blood made examples , so entirely did they retain the meekness and lenity of the christian spirit . and if after many years quiet , those of that religion when they met with no trouble from the government , did notwithstanding enter into so many plots and conspiracies against the queens person and the established government , was it any wonder that severe laws were made against them , and those emissaries who under a pretence of coming in a mission , were sent as spies and agents among us to fill all with blood and confusion ? whom had they blame for all this but themselves ? or was this any thing but what would have been certainly done in the gentlest and mildest government upon earth ? for the law of self-preservation is engraven on all mens natures , and so no wonder every state and government sees to its own security against those who seek its ruine and destruction : and it had been no wonder if upon such provocations there had been some severities used which in themselves were unjustifiable : for few take reparation in an exact equality to the damage and injury they have received . but since that time they have had very little cause to complain of any hard treatment ; and if they have met with any , they may still thank the officious insolent deportment of some of their own church , that have given just cause of jealousie and fear . but i shall pursue this discourse no farther , hoping enough is already said upon the head that engaged me to it , to make it appear , that it was possible the doctrine of the church should be changed in this matter , and that it was truly changed . from which i may be well allowed to subsume , that our church discovering that this change was made , had very good reason and a sufficient authority to reform this corruption , and restore the primitive doctrine again . and now being to leave my reader , i shall only desire him to consider a little of how great importance his eternal concerns are , and that he has no reason to look for endless happiness , if he does not serve god in a way suitable to his will. for what hopes soever there may be for one who lives and dies in some unknown error , yet there are no hopes for those that either neglect or despise the truth , and that out of humour or any other carnal account give themselves up to errours , and willingly embrace them . certainly god sent not his son in the world , nor gave him to so cruel a death , for nothing . if he hath revealed his counsels with so much solemnity , his designs in that must be great and worthy of god : the true ends of religion must be the purifying our souls , the conforming us to the divine nature , the uniting us to one another in the most tender bonds of love , truth , justice and goodness , the raising our minds to a heavenly and contemplative temper , and our living as pilgrims and strangers on this earth , ever waiting and longing for our change . now we dare appeal all men to shew any thing in our religion or worship , that obstructs any of these ends ; on the contrary the sum and total of our doctrine is , the conforming our selves to christ and his apostles , both in faith and life , so that it can scarce be devised what should make any body that hath any sense of religion , or regard to his soul , forsake our communion , where he finds nothing that is not highly suitable to the nature and ends of religion ; and turn over to a church that is founded on and cemented in carnal interests : the grand design of all their attempts being to subject all to the papal tyranny , which must needs appear visibly to every one whose eyes are opened . for attaining which end they have set up such a vast company of additions to the simplicity of the faith and the purity of the christian worship , that it is a great work even to know them . is it not then a strange choice ? to leave a church that worships god so as all understand what they do and can say amen ; to go to a church where the worship is not understood , so that he who officiats is a barbarian to them : a church which worships god in a spiritual & unexceptionable manner ; to go to a church that is scandalously ( to raise this charge no higher ) full of images and pictures , and that of the blessed trinity , before which prostrations and adorations are daily made : a church that directs her devotions to god , and his son jesus christ ; to go to a church that without any good warrant not only invocates saints and angels , but also in the very same form of words , which they offer up to god and jesus christ , which is a thing at least full of scandal , since these words must be strangely wrested from their natural meaning , otherwise they are high blasphemies : a church that commemorates christs death in the sacrament , and truly communicates in his body and blood , with all holy reverence and due preparation● to go to a church that spends all her devotion in an outward adoring the sacrament , without communicating with any due care , but resting in the priestly absolution allows it upon a single attrition : a church that administers all the sacraments christ appointed , and as he appointed them ; to go to a church that hath added many to those he appointed , and hath maimed that he gave for a pledge of his presence when he left this earth . in a word , that leaves a church that submits to all that christ and his apostles taught , and in a secondary order to all delivered to us by the primitive church ; to go to a church that hath set up an authority that pretends to be equal to these sacred oracles , and has manifestly cancelled most of the primitive constitutions . but it is not enough to remain in the communion of our church ; for if we do not walk conform to that holy faith taught in it , we disgrace it . let all therefore that have zeal for our church , express it chiefly in studying to purify their hearts and lives , so as becomes christians , and reformed christians , and then others that behold us , will be ashamed when they see such real confutations of the calumnies of our adversaries , which would soon be turned back on them with a just 〈◊〉 if there were not too many adv●ntages given by our divisions , and other disorders . but nothing that is personal ought to be charged on our church : and who●ver object any such things , of all persons in the world , they are the most inexcusable , who being so highly guilty themselves , have yet such undaunted brows , as to charge those things on us , which if they be practised by any among us , yet are disallowed ; but among them have had all encouragement and authority possible from the corruptions both of their popes , and casuists . but here i break off , praying god he may at length open the eyes of all christendom that they may see and love the truth , and walk according to it . amen . finis . books sold by moses pitt at the angel in s. paul's church-yard . there is newly published two recantation sermons ( preached at the french-church in the savoy ) by two converted romanists , mr. de la motte , late preacher of the order of the carmelites ; and mr. de luzanzy , licentiate in divinity ; wherein the corrupt doctrines of the church of rome are laid open and confuted . both printed in french and english. also two other sermons , one preached before the king at white hall , jan. . . by henry bagshaw , d. d. the other before the lord mayor dec. . . by john cook o. theses theologicae variis temporibus in academia sedanensi editae & ad disputandum propolitae . authore ludovico le blanc verbi divini ministro & theologiae prosessore . in qua exponitur sententia doctorum ecclesiae romanae , & protestantium . fol. pr. s. a sober answer to the most material thing● in a discourse called naked truth . º pr. d. mystery of iniquity unva●led in a discourse , wherein is held forth the opposition of the doctrine , worship , and practices of the roman church , to the nature , designs , and characters of the christian faith , by gilbert burnet . o. price s. a collection of popish miracles wrought by popish saints , both during their lives and after their death , collected out of their own authors . º price s. art of speaking by the authors of ars cogitandi now in the press . o. history of the late revolution of the empire of the great mogol , with a description of the country . o. price s. history of the conquest of china by the tartars . º price s. poetical histories , being a collection of all the stories necessary for a perfect understanding of the greek and latine poets and other antient authors . º price s. d. a voyage to taffaletta . º price d catalogus librorum in regionibus transmarinis nuper editorum . fol. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e more nevochim par. . c. . notes for div a -e apolog. . lib. . adv . her c. . lib. . adv . marc. c. . lib. . adv . marc. c. . lib. . cont . celsum . epist. . epist. . in anchorat . in orat. de bap. christ. lib. de bened . patriarc . cap. . homil. . in epist. ad cor. epist. ad hedib . comment . s. ma●●● . . epist. . serm. . de divers lib. . de trinit . c. . lib. . de civ . dei. lib. cont. donat. c. . serm. : de verb. dom. lib. . de trinit . c. . epist. . ad bonifac. serm. . in psal. . epist. ad c●●sar . comm. in epist. ad galat. c. . lib. . cont . marc. c. . lib. . cont . marc. c. . orig. lib. . c. . orig. lib. , c. . dialog . . dialog . . in lib. de duab . nat . christ : epist. ad caefar . monach . cod. . dialog . lib. . adv . heret . c. . lib. de resurr c. . serm. . d● divers . comment . in matth. c. . mystic . catech . . tom. . lib. . de orth. fide c. . lib. . cont . marc. c. . com. in psal. . lib. . de doct. chr. c. . homil. . in lev. lib. cons. adiman● . manich . c. . defens . conc. chal● ced . lib. . epist. . ad bonifac. l. . cont . faust. manich . c. . tract . in exod. comm. in epist. ad cor. comment . in mat. c. . hom. . in mat. tom. . spir. dach . tractat. . in joan. lib. d● civ . d● c. . tractat. . in joan. notes for div a -e * boniface the eighth , extrav . lib. . cap . de majoritate & obedientia . after he had studied to prove that the temporal and material sword , as well as the spiritual , was in the power of st. peter , from these word ; behold two swords , & our saviour's answer , it is enough . in the end he c●ncludes , whosoever therefore resists this power thus ordained of god , resists the ordinance of god ; except with manichee he make two beginnings , which we define to be false and heretical : for moses testifies , that not in the beginnings , but in the beginning god created the heaven and the earth . therefore we declare , say , define and pronounce , that it is of necessity to salvation to every humane creature to be subject to the pope of rome : and it is plain this subjection must be that he had been pleading thorough that whole decretal , which is the subjection of the temporal sword to the spiritual . hist. de l. arrian , l. . [a] de decret . synod . nicen. [b] athan. epist. de sententia dian. alex. [c] de synod . aron . [d] hi● lib. de synod [e] epist. f epist. . g lib. 〈◊〉 decret . co●cil . nicen. h act. conc. ep● ; action . ● . i act. conc. chalced. action . k the●d . in di●l . l gelas. de dua● . naturis . [m] lib. . cont. max. . * lib. de spect. c. . lib. adv. gnost . c. . * de synod . arim. & s●lenc . de synod . adv . arrian . * lib. . con. max. arr. ep. 〈◊〉 . * lib. . c. . * epist. . * epist. . * oper. cass. * orat. . * act. syn. eph. * action . . * act , . sy● constantin . in act. . chalcedon b 〈◊〉 . 〈…〉 . c 〈◊〉 . cod. . notes for div a -e ord. rom. in pascha . greg. nazian , orat. i. ap●ll . & . orat. chrisoft . l. ● . de sacer . . . greg. decret . lib. . 〈◊〉 . cap. . clement . lib. . tit . . auc●or ad n. . ●rantz . sex . ●b . . cap. . apost . can. and can. antioch . de ●id . orth .. lib. . cap. . bed. in psal. . & mark . lib. . de g●●● , reg. sigebert ; platma , antonin . sabellicus , chron. mont. cassin . sigonius , vignier , guitmond , and chiefly william of malmesburg edit . antwerp . . de sacram. al●ar . c. . li● . . dis● . . anno . cap. ● . cap. . tom. . spic . and tom. . of the count. print . anno , p. . sess. . the jesuits loyalty, manifested in three several treatises lately written by them against the oath of allegeance with a preface shewing the pernicious consequence of their principles as to civil government. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the jesuits loyalty, manifested in three several treatises lately written by them against the oath of allegeance with a preface shewing the pernicious consequence of their principles as to civil government. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], , [ ], xiv, p. printed by e. flesher, for r. royston ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed (in part) to bp. e. stillingfleet. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng jesuits -- great britain. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the jesuits loyalty , manifested in three several treatises lately written by them against the oath of allegeance : with a preface , shewing the pernicious consequence of their principles as to civil government . london , printed by e. flesher , for r. royston , bookseller to his most sacred majesty , . to the authours of the following treatises . gentlemen , i hope you will forgive me the not setting your names before this address , although i am not wholly a stranger to them : for however it be against the usual custome , yet you have reason to take it more kindly from me . i assure you , my design is , not to doe any injury to your persons , but onely to let you and the world know , we are not altogether unacquainted with your present principles , or practices . and although , like the plague , you walk in darkness , and doe mischief ; yet i intend onely to set such marks and characters upon you , that when others see them , they may take the wind of you , and avoid the infection . it may be , men of your retirement and modesty may be somewhat surprised , to see themselves in print against their wills : but i hope you will pardon this presumption , and absolve me as soon as i have confessed my fault . for it is very agreeable to your casuistical theology so to doe , without staying for the performance of penance ; and the contrary doctrine is accounted one of the heresies of iansenism , which i know you love as little as the oath of allegeance . i find in a supplication to the late pope clement x. that to assert the necessity of penance before absolution , is to charge the church with a dangerous errour for four or five of the last ages , and to revive an opinion condemned by the head of the church . ( which are the very same arguments used in the first treatise , for the pope's power of deposing princes . ) you need not therefore wonder , if it be with me as it is with thousands of others , that when absolution may be had at so easy a rate , i presume to offend . if i may be said to offend , in obtaining that for you , which you sometimes sadly complain of the want of , viz. a liberty of printing your books . you may by this see how frankly we deal with you , in that we do not onely suffer , but procure the coming abroad of your most mischievous treatises . it may be you will be ready to ask me , if i account these treatises such , why i venture to publish them . because some poisons lose their force when they are exposed to the open air : and it may doe good to others , to let them understand what doses you give in private to your patients . we are to hear of nothing from you , but professions of the utmost loyalty and obedience to government ; and that it is nothing but a little squeamish scrupulosity of conscience which makes any of your stomachs check at the oath of allegeance : the ingredients are a little too gross and fulsome for you to get it down ; but if they were neatly done up in pills and gilded over , to prevent the nauseousness of them , you could swallow them all , and they would work kindly with you . we have been told over and over , that you onely stick at some inconvenient phrases and modes of expression ; but for what concerned any real security to the government , you would be as forward and ready to give it , as any of his majestie 's subjects . if this really were the case , you deserved both to be pitied and considered . but we thank you , gentlemen , for the pains you have taken in these treatises , to make us understand that this is not your case . for it is easy to discern by them , what lies at the bottom of all , viz. the unwillingness to renounce the pope's power of deposing princes . which the authour of the first treatise , like an open plain-hearted man , avows and maintains : and the other two more craftily insinuate . i shall therefore deal freely with you in this matter , by endeavouring to prove these two things . . that if you do not renounce the pope's power of deposing princes , and absolving subjects from their allegeance , you can give no real security to the government . . that if you do renounce it , you have no reason to stick at the oath of allegeance . . that if you do not renounce the pope's power of deposing princes , and absolving subjects from their allegeance , you can give no real security to the government . i shall not insist on any of the beaten topicks to prove this ; but onely make use of this argument , that it is allowed by all friends to our king and his government , that the commonwealth-principles are destructive to it , and that none who do own them can give sufficient security for their allegeance . if i therefore prove , that all the mischievous consequences of the republican principles do follow upon the owning the pope's power of deposing princes , i suppose you will grant i sufficiently prove what i intend . now the mischief of the commonwealth-principles lay in these things : . setting up a court of judicature over sovereign princes ; . breaking the oaths and bonds of allegeance men had entred into ; . justifying rebellion on the account of religion . every one of these i shall prove doth naturally follow from the pope's power of deposing princes . . setting up a court of iudicature over sovereign princes ; or , if you please , a spiritual high court of iustice at rome ; where princes are often condemned without being heard , because they have no reason to acknowledge the jurisdiction of the court. it is no satisfaction , in this case , to distinguish of a direct and indirect power : for however the power comes , the effect and consequence of it is the same : as a man may be as certainly killed by a back blow , as by a thrust or downright stroke . but the question is not , how the pope came by this power , which , i easily grant , was indirectly enough ; but whether he hath any such sovereignty over princes , as to be able by virtue thereof to depose them . and the commonwealths-men do herein agree with you . for they do not say , that the people have a direct power over their princes ; ( which were a contradiction in it self , for subjects to command their sovereigns ; ) but onely , that in case of breach of trust , the people have an indirect power to call their princes to an account , and to deprive them of their authority . but are the commonwealth-principles the less mischievous to government , because they onely assert an indirect power in the people ? why then should the same distinction be of less pernicious consequence in this case ? the main thing to be debated is , that which doth immediately concern the just rights of sovereignty , whether sovereign princes have a supreme and independent authority inherent in their persons or no : or whether they are so accountable to others , that upon male-administration they may be deprived of their government . this is the first and chief point : and the republicans and asserters of the pope's deposing power are perfectly agreed in the affirmative of the latter question , and onely differ as to the persons in whom the power of calling princes to an account doth lie ; whether it be in the pope , or the people . and even as to this , they do not differ so much as men may at first imagine . for , however the primitive christians thought it no flattery to princes , to derive their power immediately from god , and to make them accountable to him alone , as being superiour to all below him , ( as might be easily proved by multitudes of testimonies : ) yet , after the pope's deposing power came into request , the commonwealth-principles did so too , and the power of princes was said to be of another original , and therefore they were accountable to the people . thus gregory vii . that holy and meek-spirited pope , not onely took upon him to depose the emperour , and absolve his subjects from their allegeance ; but he makes the first constitution of monarchical government to be a meer vsurpation upon the just rights and liberties of the people . for he saith , that kings and princes had their beginning from those , who , being ignorant of god , got the power into their hands over their equals , ( through the instigation of the devil , ) and by their pride , rapine , perfidiousness , murther , ambition , intolerable presumption , and all manner of wickedness . this excellent account of the original of monarchical government we have from that famous leveller gregory vii . that most holy and learned pope , who , for his sanctity and miracles , was canonized for a saint ; as the authour of the first treatise notably observes . did ever any remonstrance , declaration of the army , or agreement of the people , give a worse account of the beginning of monarchy then this infallible head of the church doth ? what follows from hence , but the justifying all rebellion against princes , which , upon these principles , would be nothing else , but the people's recovering their just rights against intolerable usurpations ? for shame , gentlemen , never upbraid us more with the pernicious doctrines of the late times as to civil government . the very worst of our fanaticks never talked so reproachfully of it , as your canonized saint doth . their principles and practices we of the church of england profess to detest and abhorre : but i do not see how those can doe it , who have that self-denying saint gregory vii . in such mighty veneration . i pray , gentlemen , tell me what divine assistence this good pope had , when he gave this admirable account of the original of civil government : and whether it be not very possible , upon his principles , for men to be saints and rebells at the same time . i have had the curiosity to enquire into the principles of civil government among the fierce contenders for the pope's deposing power ; and i have found those hypotheses avowed and maintained , which justifie all the practices of our late regicides , who when they wanted materials , and examples of former ages , when they had a mind to seem learned in rebellion , they found no smith in israel , but went down to the philistins , to sharpen their fatal axe . else , how came the book of succession to the crown of england to be shred into so many speeches , and licensed then by such authority as they had , to justify their proceedings against our late sovereign of glorious memory ? wherein the main design is , to prove , that commonwealths have sometimes lawfully chastised their lawfull princes , though never so lawfully descended , or otherwise lawfully put in possession of their crowns : and that this hath fallen out ever , or for the most part , commodious to the weal-publick ; and that it may seem that god approved and prospered the same , by the good success and successours that ensued thereof . these were the principles of the most considerable men of that party here in england at that time . for it is a great and common mistake in those that think the book of succession to have been written by f. parsons alone . for he tells us , that card. allen , sir francis inglefield , and other principal persons of our nation , are known to have concurred to the laying together of that book , as by their own hands is yet extant ; and this to the publick benefit of our catholick cause . first , that english catholicks might understand what special and precise obligation they have to respect religion , in admitting any new prince , above all other respects humane under heaven . and this is handled largely , clearly , and with great variety of learning , reasons , doctrine , and examples , throughout the first book . this was purposely intended for the exclusion of his majestie 's royall family , k. iames being then known to be a firm protestant : and therefore two breves were obtained from the pope to exclude him from the succession ; which were sent to garnet , provincial of the iesuits . one began , dilectis filiis , principibus , & nobilibus catholicis ; the other , dilecto filio , archipresbytero , & reliquo clero anglicano . in both which the pope exhorts them , not to suffer any person to succeed in the crown of england , how near soever in bloud , unless he would , not barely tolerate the catholick faith , but promote it to the utmost , and swear to maintain it . by virtue of which apostolical sentence catesby justified himself in the gun-powder-treason : for , saith he , if it were lawfull to exclude the king from the succession , it is lawfull to cast him out of possession ; and that is my work , and shall be my care . thus we see the pope's deposing power was maintained here in england , by such who saw how necessary it was for their purpose to defend the power of commonwealths over their princes , either to exclude them from succession to the crown , or to deprive them of the possession of it . the same we shall find in france , in the time of the solemn league and covenant there , in the reigns of henry iii. and iv. for those who were engaged so deep in rebellion against their lawfull princes , found it necessary for them to insist on the pope's power to depose , and the people's to deprive their sovereigns . both these are joyned together in the book written about the just reasons of casting off henry iii. by one who was then a doctour of the sorbon : wherein the authour begins with the power of the church ; but he passes from that , to the power of the people . he asserts * the fundamental and radical power to be so in them , that they may call princes to account for treason against the people ; which he endeavours at large to prove by reason , by scripture , by examples of all sorts , forrein and domestick . and he adds , that in such cases they are not to stand upon the niceties and forms of law ; but that the necessities of state do supersede all those things . if this man had been of counsel for the late regicides , he could not more effectually have pleaded their cause . the next year after the murther of henry iii. by a monk , acted and inspired by these rebellious principles , came forth another virulent book against henry iv. under the name of rossaeus ; but written by w. reynolds , a furious english papist , who , with his brethren , contributed their utmost assistence to the rebellious leaguers in france ; as appears by the books then written . this man proceeds upon the same two fundamental principles of rebellion , the power of the people , and the deposing power of the pope . he makes all obedience to princes to be so far conditional , that if they doe not their duty , their subjects are free from their obligation to obey them : and saith , that the contrary opinion is against the law of nations , and the common reason of mankind . and with great vehemency he pleads for the supreme power over princes to lie in the body of the people , or their representative : which he endeavours to prove by the consent of nations . and it is observable , that he makes the right of succession by nearness of bloud to be a calvinistical doctrine . for , he saith , those pretended catholicks who pleaded for the right of the king of navarre , though of a different religion , had onely the name of catholicks , but were in truth impudent calvinists . the good catholick doctrine which he asserts , is , that no obedience is due to an heretical prince : which he goes about to prove with more then fanatick zeal . but whereas the fanaticks had onely the power of the people to justify themselves by ; he calls in the deposing power of the pope too ; upon which he largely insists . yet this is the book so highly commended in france by clement viii nuncio , the cardinal of placentia . by which we see , how well the republican principles do agree with the pope's deposing power . which may be better understood , when we consider , that these were the common principles of the whole party of the league ; as might be proved from several authentick testimonies , if it were needfull . and he is a mighty stranger in history , that doth not know how that party was encouraged and abetted by the court of rome ; and how sixtus v. made a fanatick oration in the consistory at rome , upon the murther of henry iii. by a iacobin frier , after eight days fasting and prayer to prepare himself for so holy an act , and celebrating masse , and commending himself to the prayers of others ; as one tells us who well knew all the circumstances of that horrid murther . this oration is now stoutly denied by persons of greater zeal then knowledge ; but will. warmington , a romish priest , not onely assures us that he had seen the copy printed at paris . the year of the king's death , with the approbation of doctours of the faculty of paris , ( whereof one , viz. boucher , was the authour of the book of the just abdication of henry iii. ) but he saith , that being then at rome , he sent it to william reynolds , ( the authour of the other treatise , ) who looked on it as an approbation of the frier's fact ; and said , he could not have been gratified by any thing more , then by sending him the approbation of the see apostolick , because he was then writing his book . this speech was published from the notes of card. allen , as warmington saith , who was then one of his chaplains , imploy'd by him in transcribing it ; and the pope himself acknowledged it to be his own oration . let the world then judge , whether the regicides doctrine doth not very well agree with the maxims of the roman court. so true is that saying of spalatensis , that the popes and their followers make it their business to lessen the authority of princes , and to make it as mean and contemptible as they can . and the countenancing the proceedings of the covenanters in france against henry iv. by the successive popes was so open and notorious , that the necessity of his affairs drove him to the change of his religion : but because he was not a persecuter of hereticks to that degree they desired , after several attempts upon his person , by men of these principles , we all know it cost him his life at last . and i have it from a very good hand , that ravilliac himself confessed , that the reason which induced him to murther his sovereign was , because he did not think him obedient enough to the pope . thus we find the most mischievous commonwealth-principles have been very well entertained at rome , as long as they are subservient to the pope's deposing power . but if we enquire farther into the reason of these pretences , we shall find them alike on both sides . the commonwealths-men , when they are asked , how the people , having once parted with their power , come to resume it ; they presently run to an implicit contract between the prince and the people , by virtue whereof the people have a fundamental power left in themselves , which they are not to exercise but upon princes violation of the trust committed to them . the very same ground is made the foundation of the pope's deposing power , viz. an implicit contract that all princes made when they were christians , to submit their scepters to the pope's authority . which is so implicit , that very few princes in the world ever heard of it , unless they were such who took their crowns from the popes hands , after they had resigned them to them ; which few besides our king iohn were ever so mean-spirited to doe . i reade indeed that albertus , archduke of austria , in late times accepted the government of flanders with isabella clara eugenia , upon these terms , that if any of their posterity were declared hereticks by the pope , they should lose all their right to those provinces ; and that the people should be no longer bound to obey them , but to take the next successour . this is a very unusual condition , and i leave it to the politicians to dispute how far such a condition can oblige a sovereign prince ; since it is declared in the case of king iohn , that the resignation of the crown to the pope is a void act : and so consequently will the imposing any such condition be as inconsistent with the rights of sovereignty . but in the general case of princes , nothing is pleaded but an implicit contract , where by princes being excommunicated by the pope , must lose all that just authority over the people which they had before . but who made such conditional settlements of civil power upon princes ? who keeps the ancient deeds and records of them ? for all the first ages of the christian church , this conditional power and obedience was never heard of . not when emperours were open and declared infidels or hereticks . what reason can be supposed more now , then was in the times of constantius and valens , that were arian hereticks ? yet the most learned , zealous and orthodox bishops of that time never once thought of their losing their authority by it : as i could easily prove , if the design of this preface would permit me . suppose there were an escheat of power made , how comes it to fall into the pope's hands ? if it be by virtue of excommunication , every bishop that hath power to excommunicate , will likewise have power to depose princes : and what a fine case are princes in , if their power lies at the mercy of every insolent or peevish bishop ? if it be not by the power of excommunication , by what power is it that the prince is deposed by the pope ? is it by virtue of pasce oves , and dabo tibi claves ? that prince's case is extremely to be pitied , that hath no better security for his power , then what the pope hath for his from those places , in the judgment of the most ingenuous persons of the roman communion . and it seems a very hard case , that princes should lose their unquestionable rights for the sake of so doubtfull an authority , at best , as that of the popes , especially over princes , is . and it is so much the more hard with them , because no private person loses his estate by excommunication ; and yet princes must lose their kingdoms by it . this is indeed no court holy-water , nor a design to flatter princes ; but such horrible injustice and partiality , that it is a wonder to me , the princes of christendom have not long since combined together to dethrone him , who thinks it in his power to depose them , thereby making himself the caliph of the western babylon . and so , no doubt , they would have done , had it not been for the difference of interests among christian princes , that have made some therefore side with and uphold the papal monarchy , because others opposed it ; and every one hopes , at one time or other , to make use of it for his own turn . but yet methinks it is their common interest , to secure themselves against the prevalency of this dangerous doctrine on their own subjects : for all those who believe it , are but conditional subjects to their princes , for their obedience depends on the will and pleasure of another , whom they think themselves bound absolutely to obey , and yet not bound to believe he did right in excommunicating and deposing their prince . for they dare not say he is infallible in his proceedings against princes : so that right or wrong they must obey the pope , and disobey their lawfull sovereign . if the pope through pride , or passion , or interest , or misinformation , thunder out excommunication against a christian prince , ( all which , they say , he is capable of in pronouncing this dreadfull sentence , ) then all his subjects are presently free from their allegeance , and they may doe what they please against him . and what a miserable condition were sovereign princes in , if all christians were such fools , to think themselves bound to obey an unjust sentence of the bishop of rome against their just and lawfull prince ? for upon these principles , though the popes be never so much parties , they must be the onely iudges in this case . and what redress is to be expected there , where it is so much the interest of the person concerned , to have it believed he cannot erre ? if these were really the terms of princes being admitted to christianity , it would make the most considerable argument to perswade them to infidelity . for what have they to doe to judge them that are without ? but princes have no cause to be afraid of being christians for the sake of this doctrine : for if christ and his apostles were the best teachers of christianity , this is certainly no part of it . for the religion they taught never meddled with crowns and scepters , but left to caesar the things that were caesar's , and never gave the least intimation to princes of any forfeiture of their authority , if they did not render to god the things that are god's . the christian religion left mankind under those forms and rules of civil government in which it found them : it onely requires all men , of what rank or order soever , to be subject to the higher powers , because they are the ordinance of god ; and bids all christians pray for them in authority , that under them they may lead quiet and peaceable lives in all godliness and honesty . thus far the christian religion goes in these matters , and thus the primitive christians believed and practised , when their religion was pure , and free from the corruptions and usurpations which the interests and passions of men introduced in the following ages . and how then come princes in these latter times to be christians upon worse and harder terms then in the best ages of it ? but how doth it appear that princes do become christians upon such conditions , that if the pope excommunicate them , they lose their crowns ? what office of baptism is this contained in ? did their godfathers and godmothers undertake this for them ? no , that is not said , but that it is implied in the nature of the thing . how so ? is it because dominion is founded in grace ? no , not that neither . but in my mind there is very little difference , between dominion being founded in grace , and being forfeited for want of it . and so we are come about to the fanatick principles of government again ; which this deposing power in the pope doth naturally lead men to . but this is not all the mischief of this doctrine ; for , . it breaks all bonds and oaths of obedience , how sacred and solemn soever they have been . that we may the better apprehend the pernicious consequence of this doctrine , we are to consider , ( . ) that there is a mutual duty owing between princes and subjects , on the account of the relation between them , such as doth naturally arise from it , and antecedently to their embracing the christian religion . for without an obligation to obedience on the subjects part , the authority of a prince is an insignificant thing , and the publick good of the society cannot be obtained . ( . ) that when subjects are absolved from their oaths of allegeance by the pope , they are thereby declared free from that natural duty they were obliged to before . for allegeance to princes doth not flow from the relation between them and the people as christians , but as members of a civil society ; and therefore the absolving subjects from that , is in plain terms nulling the obligation to a natural duty , and taking away the force of oaths and promises . ( . ) that all mankind are agreed , that it is a sin to break a lawfull oath ; and the more solemn and weighty the oath is , the greater the perjury : but in case of the pope's absolving subjects from their oath of allegeance , it must be said , that that which otherwise would be a sin , becomes none ; and a notorious crime becomes a duty , because done by virtue of the pope's authority . this is that now we are to understand , if possible , what authority that is in the pope which can turn evil into good , and good into evil ; that can make civil obedience to princes to be a crime , and perjury to be none . this is an admirable power , and greater then the schoolmen will allow to god himself , where there is intrinsick goodness in the nature of the thing , and inseparable evil from the contrary to it . for , say they , divine providence being supposed , god cannot but forbid those evil actions which natural reason discovers to be evil : for how can the hatred of god , or a wilfull lie , be any other then evil ? the same i say of disobedience to parents , and violation of oaths lawfully made ; which are things evil in their own nature . the question now is , whether the pope can doe that which they say god himself cannot , viz. make perjury not to be a sin. for an oath of allegeance cannot be denied to be a lawfull oath , and a lawfull oath lays an obligation on conscience to the performance of it , and gives another a just right to challenge that allegeance as a duty by virtue of his oath ; and where-ever there is a necessary duty , god himself , saith aquinas , cannot dispense : for then ▪ he would act contrary to the rule of eternal righteousness ; which he can never doe . it is true , they grant , that god , in regard of his supreme dominion , can alter the matter or circumstances of things ; as in abraham's sacrificing his son upon god's particular command , which in those circumstances was not murther : but this , they say well , is no dispensation with the law , nor any act of iurisdiction as a legislator ; but onely an act of supreme power . but our question is onely , about dispensing with the force and obligation of a law of nature , such as keeping our oaths undoubtedly is . and since god himself is not allowed the power of dispensing , it seems very strange how the pope should come by it ; unless it were out of a desire to exalt himself above all that is called god. thomas aquinas saith , that there can be no dispensation to make a man doe any thing against his oath ; for , saith he , keeping an oath is an indispensable divine precept : but all the force of a dispensation lies in altering the matter of an oath , which being variable may be done . to clear this , in every oath are three things to be considered : ( . ) the obligation upon the person to perform what he swears to ; ( . ) the right which the person hath to challenge that performance to whom the oath is made ; ( . ) the interest which god hath , as supreme judge , to see to the performance , and to punish the breakers of it . now which of these is it the pope's dispensation in a promissory oath doth fall upon ? surely the pope doth not challenge to himself god's supreme power of punishing or not punishing offenders ; so that if men do break their oaths , if they have the pope's dispensation , they do not fear the punishment of perjured persons . i am willing to believe this is not their meaning . it must therefore be one of the former . but then how comes the pope to have power to give away another man 's natural right ? a man swears allegeance to his prince , by virtue of which oath the prince challenges his allegeance as a sworn duty : and so it is according to all rules of common reason and justice . the pope he dispenseth with this oath , and absolveth the person from this allegeance ; i. e. the pope gives away the prince's right whether he will or no. is not this great justice , and infinitely becoming god's vicar upon earth ? but how came the pope by that right of the prince which he gives away ? the right was a just and natural right , belonging to him on a meer civil account : what authority then hath the pope to dispose of it ? may he not as well give away all the just rights of men to their estates , as those of princes to their crowns ? the very plain truth is , the defenders of the pope's indirect power are forced to shuffle and cut , and make unintelligible distinctions , and in effect to talk non-sense about this matter . the onely men that speak sense are those who assert the pope in plain terms to have a direct temporal monarchy , and that all kings are their subjects and vasalls ; and therefore they may dispose of their crowns , and doe what they please with them . we know what these men would have ; and if princes be tame enough to submit to this power , they own the pope as their true sovereign lord , and must rule , or not rule , at his pleasure . but it is impossible for those who contend onely for spiritual jurisdiction in the pope , to defend his power of absolving subjects from their allegeance to princes , since this power of altering the matter is not an act of iurisdiction , but of meer power , as was said before as to god himself in the case of abraham . therefore those who contend onely for the pope's dispensing with oaths of allegeance on the account of his spiritual jurisdiction , can never justify the giving away the natural rights of princes ; for that is an act of power , and not of iurisdiction . and cajetan well observes , that the relaxation of an oath by altering the matter , is an act of direct power , because the thing it self is immediately under the power of the person ; as in a father over his son , or a lord over his vassall : and therefore the dispensing with the oath of allegeance cannot be by the alteration of the matter , unless a direct power over princes be asserted . cajetan laies down a good rule about dispensing with oaths , that in them we ought to see that no prejudice be done to the person to whom and for whose sake they are made : and therefore , he saith , the pope himself hath not that power over oaths , which he hath over vows . and yet maldonat saith , that neither the pope , nor the whole church , can dispense in a solemn vow : and that a dispensation in such cases is no less then an abrogation of the law of god and nature . dominicus à soto saith , that although the pope may dispense in a vow , yet he cannot in an oath . for , saith he , the pope cannot relax an oath which one man hath made to another of paying to him what he owes him ▪ which ariseth from the nature of the contract which is confirmed by an oath . the pope having not the power to take away from another man that which doth belong to him ▪ cannot doe him so much injury as to relax the oath which is made to him . and in the loosing of oaths , care ought to be taken that there be no injury to a third person . afterwards he puts this case , whether if the pope dispenseth with an oath without just cause , that dispensation will free a man from perjury . which he denies , for this reason , because a dispensation cannot hold in the law of god or nature . therefore since it is a law of god , that a man should perform what he swears , although that bond doth arise from the will and consent of the party , yet it cannot be dissolved without sufficient reason . but what reason can be sufficient , he determines not . however , we have gained thus much , that the pope cannot take away the right of a third person ; which he must doe , if he can absolve subjects from their allegeance to their prince , which is as much due to him , as a summe of money is to a creditor . i grant , after all this , that cajetan and soto both yield to the common doctrine of their church , about dispensing with oaths made to excommunicated persons , by way of punishment to them : but they do not answer their own arguments . and cajetan saith , that caution is to be used , lest prejudice be done to another by it : i. e. they durst not oppose the common opinion , although they saw sufficient reason against it . cardinal tolet seems to speak home to our case , when he saith , that an oath made to the benefit of a third person cannot be dispensed with , no not by the pope himself , without the consent of that person ; as the pope cannot take away another man's goods . one would have thought this had been as full to our purpose as possible ; and so it is as to the reason of the thing . but he brings in after it a scurvy exception of the case of excommunicated persons , without offering the least shew of reason why the common rules of iustice and honesty ought not to be observed towards persons censured by the church : nor doth he attempt to shew , how the pope comes by that power of dispensing with oaths in that case , which he freely declares he hath not in any other . gregory sayr thinks he hath nicked the matter , when with wonderfull subtilty he distinguisheth between the free act of the will in obliging it self by an oath , and the obligation following upon it , to perform what is sworn . now , saith he , the pope in dispensing doth not take away the second , viz. the obligation to perform the oath , the bond remaining , for that were to go against the law of god and nature ; but because every oath doth suppose a consent of the will , the dispensation falls upon that , and takes away the force of the oath from it . if this subtilty will hold , for all that i can see , the pope may dispense with all the oaths in the world , and justify himself upon this distinction : for , as azorius well observes , if the reason of dispensing be drawn from the consent of the will , which is said to be subject to the pope , he may at his pleasure dispense with any oath whatsoever . sayr takes notice of azorius his dissatisfaction at this answer , but he tells him to his teeth , that he could bring no better ; yea , that he could find out no answer at all . azorius indeed acknowledges the great difficulty of explaining this dispensing power of the pope as to oaths ; and concludes at last , that the bond of an oath cannot be loosed by the pope , but for some reason drawn from the law of nature ; which is in effect to deny his authority : for if there be a reason from the law of nature against the obligation of an oath , the bond is loosed of it self . others therefore go the plainest way to work , who say , that all oaths have that tacit condition in them , if the pope please . but sayr thinks this a little too broad ; because then it follows evidently , that the pope may dispense as he pleases without cause ; which , he saith , is false . others again have found out a notable device of distinguishing between the obligation of iustice ▪ and of religion , in an oath ; and say , that the pope can take away the religious obligation of an oath , though not that of iustice. this widdrington saith was the opinion of several grave and learned catholicks in england ; and therefore they said they could not renounce the pope's power of absolving persons from the oath of allegeance . but he well shews this to be a vain and impertinent distinction , because the intention of the oath of allegeance is , to secure the obligation of iustice ; and the intention of the pope in absolving from that oath is , to take it away : as he proves from the famous canons , nos sanctorum , and iuratos . so that this subtilty helps not the matter at all . paul layman confesseth , that a promissory oath made to a man cannot ordinarily be relaxed without the consent of the person to whom it is made : because by such an oath a man , to whom it is made , doth acquire as just a right to the performance , as he hath to any of his goods , of which he cannot be deprived . but from this plain and just rule he excepts , as the rest do , the publick good of the church ; as though evil might be done for the good of the church , although not for the good of any private person : whereas the churche's honour ought more to be preserved by the ways of iustice and honesty . wo be to them that make good evil , and evil good , when it serves their turn ; for this is plainly setting up a particular interest under the name of the good of the church , and violating the laws of righteousness to advance it . if men break through oaths , and the most solemn engagements and promises , and regard no bonds of iustice and honesty , to compass their ends , let them call them by what specious names they please , the good old cause , or the good of the church , ( it matters not which , ) there can be no greater sign of hypocrisy and real wickedness then this . for the main part of true religion doth not lie in canting phrases , or mystical notions , neither in specious shews of devotion , nor in zeal for the true church : but in faith , as it implies the performance of our promises , as well as belief of the christian doctrine ; and in obedience , or a carefull observance of the laws of christ , among which , obedience to the king as supreme is one : which they can never pretend to be an inviolable duty , who make it in the power of another person to absolve them from the most solemn oaths of allegeance ; and consequently suppose , that to keep their oaths in such case , would be a sin , and to violate them may become a duty : which is in effect to overturn the natural differences of good and evil , to set up a controlling sovereign power above that of their prince , and to lay a perpetual foundation for faction and rebellion ; which nothing can keep men from , if conscience and their solemn oaths cannot . . therefore the third mischief common to this deposing power of the pope and commonwealth-principles , is , the justifying rebellion on the account of religion . this is done to purpose in boucher and reynolds , the fierce disputers for the pope's and the people's power . boucher saith , that it is not onely lawfull to resist authority on the account of religion ; but that it is folly and impiety not to doe it , when there is any probability of success . and the martyrs were onely to be commended for suffering , because they wanted power to resist . most catholick and primitive doctrine ! and that the life of a wicked prince ought not to be valued at that rate as the service of god ought to be : that when christ paid tribute to caesar , he did it as a private man , and not meddling with the rights of the people : that , if the people had not exercised their power over the lives of bad princes , there had been no religion left in many countries . and he finds great fault with the catholicks in england , that they suffered heretical princes to live ; and saith , that they deserved to endure the miseries they did undergo , because of it : that there is no juster cause of war , then religion is : that the prince and people make a solemn league and covenant together to serve god , and if the prince fail of his part , the people ought to compell him to it . and he accounts this a sufficient answer to all objections out of scripture , if he will not hear the church , ( how much more if he persecutes it ? ) let him be to thee as a heathen or a publican . and he brings all the examples he could think of to justify rebellion on the account of religion . rossaeus proves , that hereticks , being excommunicated , lose all right and authority of government ; and therefore it is lawfull for their subjects to rise up against them ; and that no war is more just or holy then this . which he endeavours at large to defend , and to answer all objections against it . and the contrary opinion , he saith , was first broached by the calvinists in france , when they had the expectation of the succession of henry iv. which doctrine he calls punick divinity , and atheism , and the new gospel . the truth is , he doth sufficiently prove the lawfulness of resisting princes on the account of religion to have obtained together with the pope's power of deposing princes . and there can be no other way to justifie the wars and rebellions against henry iv. of germany , and france , and other princes , after their excommunications by the pope , but by stifly maintaining this principle , of the lawfulness of resisting authority on the account of religion . and therefore this cannot be looked on as the opinion of a few factious spirits , but as the just consequence of the other opinion . for the pope's deposing power would signifie very little , unless the people were to follow home the blow , and to make the pope's thunder effectual , by actual rebellion . and the popes understand this so well , that they seldom denounce their sentence of excommunication against princes , but when all things are in readiness to pursue the design ; as might be made appear by a particular history of the several excommunications of princes , from the emperour henry iv. to our own times . if they do forbear doing the same things in our age , we are not to impute it to any alteration of their minds , or greater kindness to princes then formerly , but onely to the not finding a fit opportunity , or a party strong and great enough to compass their ends . for they have learnt by experience , that it is onely loss of powder and ammunition , to give fire at too great a distance ; and that the noise onely awakens others to look to themselves : but when they meet with a people ready prepared for so good a work , as the nuntio in ireland did , then they will set up again for this good old cause of rebellion on the account of religion . and it is observable , that cardinal bellarmin , among other notable reasons to prove the pope's deposing power , brings this for one ; because it is not lawfull for christians to suffer an heretical prince , if he seeks to draw his subjects to his belief . and what prince that believes his own religion doth it not ? and what then is this , but to raise rebellion against a prince , whenever he and they happen to be of different religions ? but that which i bring this for , is to shew , that the pope's deposing power doth carry along with it that mischievous principle to government , of the lawfulness of resisting authority on the account of religion . and from this discourse i infer , that there can be no real security given to the government , without renouncing this deposing power in the pope . but that which is the present pretence among them , is , that it is not this they stick at ; but the quarrel they have at the oath of allegeance , as it is now framed . i shall therefore proceed to the second thing , viz. ii. that if they do renounce the pope's deposing power in good earnest , they have no reason to refuse the oath of allegeance . and now , gentlemen , i must again make my address to you , with great thanks for the satisfaction you have given me in this particular . i have seriously read and considered your treatises ; and i find by them all , that if you durst heartily renounce this doctrine , all the other parts of the oath might go down well enough . the authour of the first treatise is so ingenuous , as to make the following proposition the whole foundation of his discourse ; viz. that it is not lawfull to take any oath or protestation renouncing the pope's power , in any case whatsoever to depose a christian prince , or absolve his subjects from their allegeance . and in my mind he gives a very substantial reason for it , because the holding that he hath no such power is erroneous in faith , temerarious , and impious . what would a man wish for more against any doctrine ? whatever p. w. and his brethren think of this deposing power , this piece doth charge them home , and tells them their own ; and that they are so far from being sound catholicks that deny it , that , in one word , they are hereticks , damnable henrician hereticks . what ? would they be thought catholicks that charge the church , for so many ages ▪ with holding a damnable errour , and practising mortal sin ? as their church hath done , if the pope hath no deposing power . for this honest gentleman confesseth , that it is a doctrine enormously injurious to the rights of princes , and the cause of much deadly feud betwixt the church and secular states , of many bloudy wars of princes one against another , and wicked rebellions of subjects against their princes . o the irresistible power of truth ! how vain is it for men to go about to masquerade the sun ! his light will break through , and discover all . it is very true , this hath been the effect of this blessed doctrine in the christian world ; seditions , wars , bloudshed , rebellions , what not ? but how do you prove this to have been the doctrine of the church of rome ? how ? say you ; by all the ways we can prove any doctrine catholick popes have taught it from scripture and tradition , and condemned the contrary as erroneous in faith , pernicious to salvation , wicked folly and madness , and inflicted censures on them that held it . have they so in good sooth ? nay then , it must be as good catholick doctrine as transubstantiation its own self ; if it hath been declared in councils , and received by the church . yes , say you , that i prove by the very same popes , the same councils , the same church , and in the same manner that transubstantiation was . and for my part i think you have done it , and i thank you for it . i am very well satisfied with your proofs , they are very solid , and much to the purpose . but above all i commend your conclusion , that if this doctrine be an errour , the church of rome for several ages was a wicked and blind church , and a synagogue of satan : and if it were no errour , they that now call it an errour are wicked catholicks , and in damnable errour . nor though all the doctours of sorbon , all the parliaments and vniversities of france , all the friers or blackloists in england or ireland , all the libertines , politicians and atheists in the world , should declare for it , could it ever be an authority to make it a probable opinion . bravely spoken , and like a true disciple of hildebrand ! hear this , o ye writers of controversial letters , and beware how ye fall into these mens hands . you may cry out upon these opinions as long as you please , and make us believe your church is not concerned in them : but if this good man may be credited , you can never find authority enough to make your opinion so much as probable . a very hard case for princes , when it will not be allowed so much as probable , that princes should keep their crowns on their heads , if the pope thinks fit to take them away ; or that subjects should still owe allegeance to princes , when the pope absolves them from it ! very hard , indeed , in such an age of probable doctrines , when so small authority goes to make an opinion probable , that this against the pope's deposing power should not come within the large sphere of probability . hear this , ye writers of apologies for papists loyalty , who would perswade us , silly people of the church of england , that this doctrine of the pope's power of deposing princes is onely the opinion of some doctours , and not the doctrine of your church ; when this learned authour proves , you have as much reason and authority to believe it , as that transubstantiation is the doctrine of it ; and father caron's authours cannot make the contrary opinion so much as probable ; this having been for some ages ( one at least ) the common belief , sense and doctrine of the church , as our authour saith . from whence it follows , it must have been always so ; or else oral tradition and infallibility are both gone . for how could that be the doctrine of one age which was not of the precedent ? what ? did fathers conspire to deceive their children then ? is it possible to suppose such an alteration to happen in the doctrine of the church , and yet the church declare to adhere to tradition at that time ? if this be possible in this case , then , for all that we know , that great bugbear of transubstantiation might steal in in the dark too . and so farewell oral tradition . but how can infallibility stand after it , when the church was so enormously deceived for so long together , as this authour proves it must have been , if this doctrine be false ? if the blackloists in england and irish remonstrants do not all vanish at the appearance of this treatise , and yield themselves captives to this smart and pithy authour , i expect to see some of them concerned for their own vindication , so far , as to answer this short treatise : but i beseech them then , to shew us the difference between the coming in of transubstantiation and this deposing doctrine , since the same popes , the same councils , and the same approbation of the church , are produced for both . this is all i have to say of this first treatise , whose authour i do highly commend for his plain dealing ; for he speaks out what he really thinks and believes of this doctrine of the pope's power of deposing princes . but i am no sooner entred upon the second treatise , but i fansy my self in fairy-land , where i meet with nothing but phantastick shows and apparitions : when i go about to fasten upon any thing , it is immediately gone ; the little fairy leaps up and down , and holds to nothing , intending onely to scare and affright his party from the oath of allegeance ; and when he hath done this , he disappears . the substance of the oath ( saith the authour of the questions , whom he pretends to answer , ) is , the denying and abjuring the pope's power of deposing princes . this is plain , and home to the purpose ; what say you to this ? is this doctrine true , or false ? may it be renounced or not ? hold , say you ; for my part , it is as far from my thoughts , as forein to my present purpose , to speak any thing in favour of this deposing power . is it indeed forein to your purpose , to speak to the substance of the oath ? no , say you , the substance of the oath is contained in this question , whether a catholick may deny by oath , and universally abjure , the pope's power to depose princes : not , whether he may deny it , but , whether he may deny it by oath . and the great argument to prove the negative is , that it hath been a question debated for years , and no clear and authoritative decision of the point yet appeareth , to which both sides think themselves obliged to stand and acquiesce . where are we now ? methinks we are sailing to find o brasil . we thought our selves as sure as if we had got the point , in the first treatise , a good firm , solid , substantial point of faith ; and now , all of a sudden , it is vanished into clouds and vapours , and armies fighting in the air against each other . is it possible for the sense , belief and doctrine of the church , as the first authour assures us it was , to become such a moot-point , always disputed , never decided ? this hath been the common received doctrine of all school-divines , casuists , canonists , from first to last , ( afore calvin 's time , ) in all the several nations of christendom , yea even in france it self ; and neither barclay , nor widdrington , nor caron , nor any other champion for the contrary tenet , hath been able yet to produce so much as one catholick authour , ( afore calvin 's time , ) that denied this power to the pope absolutely , or in any case whatsoever . thus the authour of the first treatise . since it is but more undeniably evident then all good men have cause to wish , and that experience , the easiest and clearest of arguments , puts it too sadly beyond dispute , that this grand controversie , whether the pope hath any power or authority to depose princes , for any cause , pretence or exigency whatsoever , hath been for divers ages , from time to time , disputed in the schools by speculative men , and is to this day , among catholick controvertists , and catholick princes too ; as the authour of the second treatise confesseth . what shall i say to you , gentlemen , when you thus flatly contradict each other ? how come you to be so little agreed upon your premisses , when you joyn in the same conclusion ? there is some mysterie in this , which we are not to understand . this i suppose it is . among those who may be trusted , this is an article of faith , and for such the first treatise was written . but for the sake of such who would see too far into these things , we must not own it , for fear we lose some residences , and patrons of the nobility and gentry : therefore among these we must not own it as an article of faith , but as a controverted point . how then , say some of the fathers of the society , shall we keep them from taking the oath of allegeance ? and if we do suffer them to doe that , farewell to our interest in england ; p. w. and the blackloists will prevail . come , come , saith father w. never fear , i have a topick will scare them all , though we own it as a controverted point . what is that ? say they with great joy. let me alone , saith he to them , i will prove them all guilty of perjury , if they take the oath , because it is a controverted point . excellent ! they all cry , this will doe our business in spite of them . let us now come near , and handle this mighty argument , that we may discern whether it be a mere spectre , or hath any flesh and bones . the oath of allegeance is a mixt oath , partly assertory , and partly promissory . in an assertory oath it is essentially requisite , that what we do swear be undoubtedly and unquestionably true . very well ; but suppose a person doth in his conscience believe that the pope cannot depose princes , nor absolve subjects from their allegeance ; may not such a man swear it without perjury ? no , says our good father ; a man may swear against his conscience , not onely when he doubts , but when he hath just cause to doubt . how is that ? good sir ; when other men see that he hath cause to doubt , or when himself sees it ? if he sees himself that he hath cause to doubt , he doth not believe in his conscience that to be so as he swears it is ; for how can a man firmly believe that , which he sees cause to doubt ? if he sees none himself , what is that to his conscience , if others think they do ; if he does not think his conscience bound to be swayed by their authority ? but the mysterie of this iesuitism is , that no gentlemen ought to have judgments of their own in these matters , but to be swayed by the extrinsick authority of their teachers . and therefore if they say , they have cause to doubt , they must doubt , whether they do or no. if gentlemen of freer understandings and education allow themselves the liberty to enquire into these matters , they presently see through all this tiffany sophistry , and find the thing still carried on is meer blind obedience ; although in following the conduct of such self-interested leaders they run themselves into continual difficulties . if a man be satisfied in his conscience , the pope hath no deposing power , according to the rules of their own best casuists , he may lawfully abjure it . the truth required in an oath , saith cardinal tolet , is , that by which a man speaks that which he thinks in his heart ; and to swear falsly is , to swear otherwise then one thinks . and to swear otherwise then a thing really is , provided he think it to be so , is neither mortal nor venial sin ; but ( . ) in case a man hath not used diligence to enquire ; and to this he doth not require the utmost , but onely some and convenient diligence : ( . ) if he be doubtfull in his mind when he swears , and yet swears it as certain : ( . ) when he is ready to swear , although he knew the thing to be otherwise . suarez saith , that in an assertory oath , the truth confirmed by it lies in the conformity of the assertion to the mind of the speaker , rather then to the thing it self ; so that if a man thinks it false which he swears , although it be really true , he is guilty of perjury : and so on the contrary , if a man swears a thing really false , which he invincibly thinks to be true , he is not guilty of perjury , but swears a lawfull oath , according to the doctrine of s. augustine and s. thomas . by invincibly , suarez means no more then tolet doth by thinking so after convenient diligence . for suarez lays down this rule afterwards , that , when a man swears what is really false , but he thinks it true , if his thinking be joyned with sufficient care , and a probable opinion of the truth , ( mark that ) he is free from the guilt of perjury . this he saith is the common and express doctrine , and built upon this ground , because the truth and falshood of an oath doth not so much relate to the matter sworn , as to the mind and conscience of him that swears . dominicus soto determines this case very plainly : if a man swears that to be true , which he thinks so , after due enquiry , though it be false , he doth not sin at all . and the measure of diligence he proportions to the nature and quality of the thing , which is therefore left to prudence and discretion . iacobus de graffiis hath this assertion ; he that swears a thing to be true , which he thinks so , although it be really false , sins not , unless he neglected to use that diligence which he was bound to use : and according to the greatness of that neglect , the measure of his sin is to be taken . greg. sayr saith , that to a lawfull assertory oath no more is required , then the agreement of what a man saith with the inward sense of his mind , according to the reasonable judgment a man passes upon what he swears . which words are taken out of gregory de valentia . qui non videt , vel dubitat esse falsum quod jurat , perjurus non est , saith vasquez ; he that doth not see , or doubt that to be false which he swears , is not guilty of perjury . which words are quoted and approved by layman ; because all perjury must have its foundation in a lie. and , saith he , he that swears in an assertory oath , doth not affirm the certainty of his own knowledge , but directly the very thing which he swears . nay he farther saith , that where the matter sworn is capable of no more then probability , a man may lawfully swear the truth according to that degree of certainty which the thing will bear ; although it should happen to be otherwise then he thinks . so that , according to the common and received doctrine of their own casuists , the foundation of this second treatise is false , ( as might be shewed by many more testimonies , if these were not sufficient , ) which is , that since this doctrine about the pope's deposing power hath no infallible certainty in it , a man cannot attest the truth or falshood of it by an oath . which was the more surprising to me , considering how usual it is among your selves , to swear to such opinions of which you cannot pretend to infallible certainty by any evidence of faith , or authoritative decision of the church . what think you of the doctrine of thomas aquinas ? are there no mere opinions , undecided by the church , in his works ? is there infallible certainty in of all them ? i do not think any iesuit in the world will say so , for a reason every own knows ; because his order holds the direct contrary in some points . and yet the dominicans swear to maintain s. thomas his doctrine . what think you of the immaculate conception , which so many vniversities have sworn to maintain , as luc. wadding hath shewed at large ? and yet all these oaths were made before any authoritative decision of the church . one of you hath found out an evasion for this , by saying , that it is one thing to swear to maintain a doctrine as true , and another to swear to it as true . i cry you mercy , gentlemen : i had thought no persons would have sworn to maintain a falshood ; or to defend that as true , which at the same time they believed or suspected not to be true . why may not you then swear that you will maintain , the pope hath no power to depose princes , when your prince requires it , as well as swear to maintain the immaculate conception , when the vniversity requires it , whatever your private opinion be ? but to prevent this subterfuge , wadding saith from surius , that the vniversity of mentz would admit none to any degree in divinity , without swearing that he would neither approve nor hold in his mind any other opinion . what think you now of swearing to the truth of an opinion not decided by the church , upon the best probable reasons that can be given for it ? and therefore all this outcry about perjury , was onely to frighten and amuse , and not to convince , or satisfy . the rest of that treatise consists of impertinent cavills against several expressions in the oath of allegeance ; which ought to be understood according to the intention of the law-givers , the reason and design of the law , and the natural sense of the words : and if they will but allow these as the most reasonable ways of interpreting laws , all those exceptions will be found too light to weigh down the balance of any tolerable judgment , and have been answered over and over from the days of widdrington to the authour of the questions ; and therefore i pass them over , and leave them to any who shall think it worth their pains to make a just answer to them . the third treatise is written by a very considering man , as any one may find in every page of it . he bids his readers consider so much , as though he had a mind to have them spend their days in considering the oath , without ever taking it . as he had , that desired time to consider the solemn league and covenant ; and when he was asked , how long time he would take for it , he told them , but a little time ; for he was an old man , and not likely to live long . but what is it which this person offers , which is so considerable ? his main argument is , from the pope's authority prohibiting the taking this oath expressly , at several and distant times , and after the most ample information , and the writings on both sides : it being a thing belonging to the pope's authority , as spiritual governour , and not to the civil power , to determine . this is an argument i must leave to those to answer , who think themselves obliged to justify the pope's authority , and to disobey it at the same time . to this some answer , that the pope's prohibition proceeding on a false supposition , and a private opinion of his own , viz. that there are some things in the oath repugnant to faith , they are not bound to obey it ; because it belongs not to the pope , without a council , to determine matters of faith : that the popes have sometimes required very unjust and unreasonable things , of which warmington gives some notable instances of his own knowledge : that obedience to all superiours is limited within certain bounds , which if they exceed , men are not bound to obey them : that the very canonists and schoolmen do set bounds to the pope's authority : as ( . ) when great mischief is like to ensue by his commands ; so francisc. zabarell , panormitan , sylvester , and others : ( . ) when injury comes to a third person by it ; so card. tolet , panormitan , soto , &c. ( . ) when there is just cause to doubt the lawfulness of the thing commanded ; so pope adrian , vasquez , navarr , and others cited by widdrington : ( . ) when he commands about those things wherein he is not superiour ; so tolet determins , a man is onely obliged in those things to obey his superiour , wherein he hath authority over him . now , say they , we having just cause to doubt , whether the pope may command us in things relating to our allegeance , and apparent injury coming to princes by owning this doctrine , and much mischief having been done by it , and more designed , as the gunpowder-treason , the true occasion of this oath : it is no culpable disobedience to take the oath of allegeance , notwithstanding the pope's prohibition . and upon the very same grounds and reasons which made the king's royal ancestours , with their parliaments , to limit the pope's authority in england , in the ancient statutes of provisors and praemunire , his majestie 's grandfather might , with his parliament , enact that law which requires the taking of the oath of allegeance : and how comes such disobedience in temporals , say they , to be now more repugnant to catholick religion , then it was in those days ? nay , in those times it was good doctrine , that when a dispute arose , whether a thing did belong to the civil or ecclesiastical power to judge , the civil power hath made laws , and determined it , and the subjects did submit to the civil authority . this and much more might be said to shew the inconsequence of this argument , upon which the stress of the third treatise lies : but i leave the full answer to those that are concerned . the plainest , shortest and truest answer is , that the pope hath no jurisdiction over us , either in spirituals or temporals . but this is sufficient to my purpose , to shew , that if they would renounce the pope's deposing power , there is nothing else , according to the principles of their own religion , could hinder them from taking the oath of allegeance . which is in effect acknowledged at last by this authour of the third treatise , when he offers a new form of an oath , rather more expressive of civil obedience then the oath of allegeance . are not princes mightily obliged to you , gentlemen , that take such wonderfull care to have a more express oath then this already required by law ? how comes this extraordinary fit of kindness upon you ? do you really think the oath of allegeance defective in this point ? no , no. we know what you would have : if we can get but this oath out of the way , the same interest which can remove this , will prevent another ; as some argue about other matters at this time . well , but what security is this which you do so freely offer ? first , you are ready to swear , without any mental reservation , that you acknowledge our sovereign lord charles the second to be lawfull king of this realm , and of all other his majestie 's dominions . a wonderfull kindness ! while the old gentleman at rome pleases , you will doe this : but suppose he should declare otherwise , what think you then ? will you then own him to be lawfull king , in spite of the pope's excommunication , and sentence of deposing ? speak out , gentlemen ; why do you draw in your breath , and mutter to your selves ? will you ? or will you not ? if you will , why do ye stick at the oath of allegeance ? if you will not , is not his majesty much obliged to you , that you will own him to be lawfull king as long as the pope pleases ? but you go on , that you renounce all power whatsoever , ecclesiastical or civil , domestick or forein , repugnant to the same . what doth this same relate to ? to his being lawfull king , or to your acknowledgment of it ? if you meant honestly without reservation , why could ye not speak plainly , in saying , that ye renounce all power of the pope as to the deposing the king , and absolving his subjects from their allegeance ? if this be not your meaning , it is a falsity to say , you swear without any mental reservation , when in the mean time you reserve the pope's power to depose the king , and then he is no longer a lawfull king to you . so that till you in plain terms renounce this power of the pope , all other forms are mere shuffling , and full of tricks and equivocations , on purpose to amuse the unwary reader . but you would have us think you come home to the point in the last clause , wherein you declare that doctrine to be impious , seditious and abominable , which maintains , that any private subject may lawfully kill or murther the anointed of god , his prince . now , say you , let any one judge , protestant or catholick , whether these foremention'd clauses are not more , at least as expressive of civil allegeance , as the ordinary oath is . not too fast , good sir ; the world is not so easily cheated as it hath been . would you indeed have us believe this to be as good security as the oath of allegeance , when some of the greatest defenders of the deposing power would say as much as this comes to , that it is impious and abominable for a private subject to kill or murther his prince ? but when the pope hath deposed a prince , those that were subjects before , according to your opinion , cease to be so : and the same person may lawfully kill or murther his prince , although not the same subject , because the relation is alter'd , by virtue of the pope's sentence . besides , this reaches onely to the case of a private subject , and not to the power of the people or the pope . that may be thought unlawfull to be done by a private person , without power and commission , which may be thought lawfull when he doth it by authority derived from others . so that this form can give satisfaction to none but such as will be satisfied with any thing . for it doth not at all touch upon the main business ; but is in truth an equivocal , deceitfull and sophistical form. for , as the authour of the reflections saith very well , princes are little advantaged by such an oath , wherein the swearers say , princes may not be murthered or killed by their subjects , unless they say withall , they may not be deposed ( by the pope : ) for whosoever hath a supreme just right upon any pretence whatsoever to depose princes , hath thereby right to cause them to be killed , in case they by arms oppose the execution of the sentence . and can it be imagined , that any prince , judged an heretick or otherwise guilty by the pope , and by him sentenced to be deposed , will thereupon quietly descend out of his throne , and yield up his scepter to one of a contrary religion ? or rather , is it not most certain , that they will not , but , on the contrary , bring with them many thousands of their armed subjects , to resist the execution of such a sentence , all which together with them must be killed or murthered , before it can have its full effect ? but this is not the onely thing wherein you design to put tricks upon your readers ; it would take up too much time for a preface to lay them all open ; yet some of them are too gross to be passed by . as when the authour of the first treatise would have his reader believe the publisher of the fasciculus rerum expetendarum & fugiendarum to have been a protestant ; when any one that looks into the book may find , it was set forth by ortwinus gratius , a known and fierce papist : and when the authours of the two other treatises both assert , that sanctarellus his book was condemned at rome before it was condemned at paris . i stood amazed at the impudence of this assertion , when i read it in the second treatise ; but much more when i saw it confirmed in the third . i looked once and again on the roman index expurgatorius , and examined the decrees of the congregation ; but i could find no sanctarellus ever condemned there . but looking into sanctarellus himself , i found the book so far from being condemned , that it came forth with the approbation and special licence of mutius vittelescus , then general of the iesuits order , bearing date at rome may . . i pray mark it , gentlemen ; the general of the iesuits at that time gave this licence to a book written by one of that order , wherein he shews , that princes may be deposed , not onely for heresie , but for other faults , for negligence , if it be expedient , if they be thought insufficient , if vnusefull , or the like . and yet you would bear us down , that your order , many years before , was prohibited writing or teaching any thing about this matter . some such temporary order is talked of in the time of claudius aquaviva , when the clamours were so great against the iesuits for asserting this doctrine . yet that prohibition extended no farther , then to teaching it to be lawfull for any person to kill princes under a pretence of tyranny . what is this but meer artifice and collusion ? it is not to be taught ; but they may think as they please : not lawfull for any person ; but it doth not deny it to be lawfull to persons authorized by the pope , after he hath deposed them . so that there never was any prohibition of teaching the pope's deposing power as to princes . but suppose there were , you very well know of how little force such an order is , when that general is dead , and another succeeds ; as appears by this very licence of mutius vittelescus . have a little pity upon us , gentlemen , and tell somewhat more probable untruths then this , that your order is forbidden to meddle with these points . so it seems indeed by the authour of the first treatise , who was under some very strict prohibition , without doubt , which made him , out of the crosseness of humane nature , so free to vent his opinion . but to give you a little more satisfaction about this book of sanctarellus : it was not onely approved by the general of the iesuits , but by alexander victricius and vincentius candidus , and printed by order of the master of the pope's palace . call you this the condemning of it at rome ? but for all this , the authour of the third treatise quotes spondanus for it . the plain truth of the story is this : sanctarellus his book coming to paris , met with so ill reception there , that it was condemned by the sorbon , burnt by order of the parliament , and the iesuits hard put to it upon very strict examinations , wherein they shuffled and shewed all the tricks they had : but these would not serve their turn , they are commanded to disown and confute this doctrine . pierre coton , upon whom the main business lay , being too hard set , made a shift to escape the difficulty of his province by dying . notwithstanding this , the doctours of sorbon would not let the business die with him , but renewed it the beginning of the next year : upon which the king sent the bishop of nantes to them , to let them know they had done enough in that matter , the book being condemned , and the pope having forbidden the sale of the book at rome . a very wonderfull condemnation of it , that a book should be forbidden to be sold , and at rome too , and that so long after the publishing of it , and when all that had a mind to it were provided already ; without any censure upon the authour or doctrine ! who dares talk of the severity of the court of rome ? could any thing be done with greater deliberation , and more in the spirit of meekness , and to less purpose , then this was ? but after all , this doth not to me look any ways like the condemning of it at rome , before it was burnt at paris ; and i suppose upon second thoughts you will be of my mind . but you will tell me , you did not expect to hear of these things in print . that may be , for we live in an age wherein many things come to pass we little thought of . for i dare say , you never thought these papers would have come into my hands : but since they did so , i could not envy the publick the benefit i receiv'd by reading of them ; hoping that they will contribute much to the satisfaction of others , at least in this one point , that you hold the very same principles about the pope's power of deposing princes , and absolving subjects from their allegeance , that ever you did . and therefore i conclude , it would be great weakness to recede from our legal tests against the men of such principles , for any new devices whatsoever . feb. . / ▪ the jesuits loyalty . the first treatise against the oath of allegeance . the conclusion to be proved . it is not lawfull to take any oath or protestation , renouncing the pope's power , in any case whatsoever to depose a christian prince , or absolve his subjects from their allegeance . the proof . my reason is , because the opinion that the pope hath no such power is erroneous in faith , temerarious , and impious . which i prove thus . that opinion which must suppose that the church hath at some time been in a damnable errour of belief , and sin of practice , is erroneous in faith , temerarious , and impious . but this opinion is such . ergo. the major , i suppose , will not be denied by any catholick : because that were to suppose that the church hath at some time ceased to be a catholick and holy church : which were heresy to suppose possible . the minor is proved . if the church at some time hath believed , and supposed as certain , that the pope hath such a power in some case , and upon that belief and supposall hath exercised it in her supremest tribunals ; and if her errour ( supposing she erred in it ) was a damnable errour , and her practice ( if unlawfull ) a mortal sin : then this opinion must suppose , that the church hath , &c. but the church hath at some time so believed and practised , and ( if amiss ) it was a damnable errour and practice . ergo. the sequele of the major is evident in terminis . the second part of the minor is likewise evident : because it was a doctrine enormously injurious to the right of princes , ( to withstand which is a damnable sin , rom. . ) and cause of much deadly feud betwixt the church and secular states , of many bloudy wars of princes one against another , and wicked rebellions of subjects against their princes . for the first part of the minor , if i shew , . that popes have taught it as sound doctrine , proving it from scripture , and tradition ; and condemned the contrary , as erroneous in faith , pernicious to salvation , wicked folly and madness , and inflicted censures on them that held it : . that popes have , in the highest tribunals of the church , deposed sovereign princes , and absolved subjects from their allegeance ; and this with the advice and assent of their councils , and not onely patriarchal , but sometimes even general : . that popes , and general councils by them confirmed , have denounced excommunication to such as should obey their princes after such sentence of deposition , and absolution of their subjects from their allegeance : . that a general council , confirmed by the pope , hath made a canon-law , regulating the manner of deposing princes in some case , and absolving their subjects from their allegeance : . that all catholick divines and casuists that have treated of it , from the first to the last , ( afore calvin's time ) in all the severall nations of christendom , have asserted this power of the pope , without so much as one contradicting it in all that time : . that all catholick emperours , kings , ( yea even they that were deposed , ) states , magistrates , and lawyers , and finally all the catholicks in the world for the time being , have ( by tacit consent at least ) approved and received this doctrine of popes , divines , and casuists , and these censures , canons , and practices of popes and general councils : i say , if i shew all this , i hope it will be granted a sufficient proof , that the church hath at some time so believed , taught , and practised . now to shew this , among a multitude of instances , i shall name some few of the principal . as , . in anno . s. gregory vii . ( a most holy and learned pope , who , for his sanctity and miracles was canonized for a saint b , ) threatned philip the french king , that unless he abstained from his simoniacall selling of bishopricks , he would excommunicate him , and all his subjects that should obey him as king ; which he counted none would , after such sentence , but apostates from christianity c . and that king hereupon submitted to the pope , and amended his fault d . . in anno . the same holy pope , in a patriarchal council of rome , wherein were present bishops , with the advice , and upon the importunity , of the whole synod , deposed henry iv. king of the germans , and absolved his subjects from their oath of allegeance to him b . and did it ex cathedra , as vicar of christ , and successour of s. peter , in virtue of the power of binding which christ gave to him in s. peter c . and this sentence he published in a breve , to all the princes , prelates , and people of the empire a . and it was published by his legates in several nations of christendom b ; and confirmed afterward in divers national councils c . and after his death , was confirmed by the three popes that succeeded him , during that king's life d . and the catholick subjects of that king obeyed it ; and such as denied the pope's jurisdiction to depose the king , were by the catholicks called hereticks and schismaticks , and had the name of henriciani * . yea , even the king himself , in his letter to the pope , wherein he complained of the sentence , denied not the pope's jurisdiction to depose him if he had been an heretick ; but pleaded he was no heretick , in which case alone the tradition of holy fathers ( as he said ) allowed the deposition of kings by the pope f . nay , and even that cardinal villain , beno , ( ring-leader of the schismaticks ) in that libell against the pope , wherein he raked together all the matters he could to make him odious , and particularly accused his deposing the king , yet accused it not for being done without jurisdiction , but onely that he did it contra ordinem juris g . finally , in a diet of the empire , called on purpose to decide , by the canons of the church , which had the juster cause , the pope or the king , where met the wisest of the princes and prelates of the german nation , of both parties , the archbishop of saltzburg ( prolocutor of the pope's party ) alledged , and shewed by the canons , that the deposition was just . to which was answered by the archbishop of mentz , ( prolocutor of the king's party ) that the pope and princes had done the king injury , in that he being at rome , performing his penance injoyn'd him by the pope , they had set up another king ( rodulph ) against him . and he added , that by the canons , the king being spoliatus , could not be condemned , or cited , till he were restored to possession h . so here was no plea then against the pope's jurisdiction , no not by the king 's own advocates . . the same holy pope did not onely believe , and suppose this doctrine to be most certainly true and sound , ( as he shewed by his practice of it ; ) but did formally teach it to the church , by canons published in a patriarchal council at rome a , and to the german prelates that consulted him of it , and prove it to them from scripture and tradition b ; and by s. peter's authority , exhorted and required all subjects of the empire , to obey and execute the sentence , by resisting the deposed king : putting them in mind , that it is a sin as bad as idolatry , to disobey s. peter's see c : and termed it no less then wicked and damnable folly and madness , to deny that power to be in the pope . . in anno . the council of lateran ( an undoubted general council , and the greatest for number of prelates that ever was ) settled a rule to be observed in the deposing of princes , and absolving their subjects from their allegeance , in case they be negligent in purging their land from hereticks a . and the canon was made in the presence , and with the consent of both the emperours , ( greek and roman ) and the greatest part of the kings and princes of christendome , and of the embassadours of the rest . answ. . those that goe under the name of the canons of this council , were not decreed by the council , but onely published for canons of it by gregory ix . repl. it is against reason to imagine , that holy and learned pope would commit so gross a forgery , and in matters of that high concern , and at a time so soon after the council , as the greatest part of the prelates that assisted at it were living , to confute it , and protest against it ; the decretals of that pope being published within twelve years after that council . answ. . all historians of those times testify , no canons were made in that council , except one or two about the recovery of the holy land , and the subjection of the greek church to the roman . repl. not one historian testifies any such negative . answ. . this decree was not found among the other acts of the council for years . repl. it was always among the other canons in the decretals of gregory ix . published within twelve years after the council : and in the first copy that was printed of the canons of that council , this was one ; and cochleus , that sent the copy of it to the printer , said , it had been long agoe written out of an ancient book . answ. . this canon names not sovereign princes , but lords onely . repl. it names lords , qui non habent dominos principales , which can be none but sovereign princes . . in anno . pope innocent iv. in a general council at lyons , by a formal definitive sentence , published in the council , and approved by all the prelates , deposed the emperour frederick ii d. and absolved all his subjects from their oath of allegeance : and not onely that , but by his apostolick authority , inhibited them to obey him as emperour or king , and not to advise or aid him as such , under pain of excommunicatio latae sententiae . and he grounded his authority for it upon that text , quodcunque solveris , &c . and it was afterward inserted into the canons of the church . and it was not given precipitately , or in passion , but upon consult first had with divers of the most able divines , that were at the council , and after mature debate in divers consistories , in which some of the cardinals pleaded as advocates for the emperour , and others answered them ; insomuch as the pope could not remember that ever any cause was discussed with more exactness and longer deliberation . and they proceeded to the sentence with much unwillingness , and forced by necessity , ( because they saw no other way , without offending god , the church , and their own consciences , ) and condoling his misery that was sentenced . all which the pope himself wrote in a letter to the cistertian abbots here in england b . and when the pope objected in council to the emperour the crimes for which he proceeded against him ; the emperour's advocate ( a wise and eloquent man , doctour of both laws , and judge in the emperour's court ) pleaded to it , ( not that the pope had no jurisdiction to depose the emperour , but , which acknowledged the jurisdiction ) that the emperour was not guilty of the crimes objected , and namely , not of heresie : and prayed respite for the emperour , to make his defence in person . and the embassadours of the kings of france and england seconded his petition , ( which also was an acknowledging by them of the pope's jurisdiction to depose the emperour : ) and thereupon two weeks respite was granted . and when the emperour heard of it , he refused to appear , ( not because they had no jurisdiction in the cause , but ) because they appeared to be his adversaries c . and upon that and other pretexts , appeal'd from that , to the next more general council d . and this sentence was ( as i said ) published with approbation of all the prelates present in the council , ( which were to the number of archbishops and bishops . ) and in token of their concurring thereunto , after it was pronounced , all the prelates lighting their tapers , held them downward , and so put them out , and threw them on the ground . and every one of them set his hand to the bull of the sentence * . and there were present at it , the other emperour ( of constantinople , ) the embassadours of france and england , and of most other christian states : and not one of them , no not the emperour 's own advocate , opened his mouth against the jurisdiction of the court ; onely he put in his appeal from it , to the next more general council ; which is an acknowledging the jurisdiction . yea , and the emperour himself , when the sentence was reported to him , though he slighted it as unjust and frivolous f , yet he never excepted to it as given à non iudice . and the king of england , and the french king ( lewis ix . afterwards canonized for a saint , ) and their nobles , justified the sentence g ; and the french king took upon him the protecting of the pope's cause against the emperour h . . in the same general council of lyons was made a canon i , that whatever prince should cause any christian to be murthered by an assasin , he should ipso facto incurre the sentence of excommunication , and deposition . . in anno . pope paul v. by a breve written to the english catholicks , declared , and taught them as pastor of their souls , that the oath of allegeance establish'd by parliament . iac. salvâ fide catholicâ , & salute animarum suarum , praestari non potest , cùm multa contineat quae fidei ac saluti apertè adversantur . now there are not in it multa to which this censure is possibly applicable , unless this be one , that the pope hath no power to depose the king , or absolve his subjects from their oath of allegeance . therefore this proposition was condemned by that pope , as contra fidem & salutem animae . . in anno . pope innocent x. censured the subscribers negatively to these propositions . . the pope , or church , hath power to absolve any persons from their obedience to the civil government established , or to be established , in this nation , in civil affairs . . by the command or dispensation of the pope , or church , it is lawfull to kill , or doe any injury to , persons condemned or excommunicated for heresy or schism . . it is lawfull , by dispensation at least from the pope , to break promise or oath made to hereticks , to have done unlawfully , and incurred the censures contained in the holy canons and apostolick constitutions , contra negantes pontificiam authoritatem in causis fidei . now there is none of these propositions to which this censure can reasonably be fastened , but the first onely ; therefore that was thus censured . . this very last year , the now pope , being consulted touching the lawfulness of taking the late irish protestation , in which is renounced this power of the pope , declared , that , instar repullulantis hydrae , it did contain , propositiones convenientes cum aliis à sede apostolica olim reprobatis , signanter à fel. mem . paulo v. per constitutionem in forma brevis , & nuper anno . in congregatione specialiter commissa ab innocentio x. &c. se graviter indoluisse , quòd per exemplum ecclesiasticorum , tracti sint in eundem errorem nobiles seculares ejusdem regni hiberniae ; quorum protestationem ac subscriptiones pariter reprobat ; idque ad eximendas catholicorum conscientias à dolo & errore quo circumveniuntur . . that this hath been the common received doctrine of all school-divines , casuists , and canonists , from first to last , ( afore calvin's time ) in all the several nations of christendome , yea even in france it self , yea even of those french divines that were most eager for their temporal princes against the pope , ( as occam , almain , ioann . parisiens . gerson , &c. ) you may see abundantly proved by that admirable man cardinal peron , in his oration made in the name of all the bishops of france to the third estate of parliament . and it is convinced by this , that neither barclay , nor widdrington , nor caron , nor any other champion for the contrary tenet , hath been yet able to produce so much as one catholick authour , ( afore calvin's time ) that denied this power to the pope absolutely , ( or in any case whatsoever : ) as will appear by examining their quotations . to conclude then . this having been for some ages ( one , at least ) the common belief , sense and doctrine of the church , according to which she hath frequently and avowedly practised and proceeded in her highest courts , and inflicted her highest censures upon the opponents of it : if it be an errour , the church was at that time a wicked and blind church , a synagogue of satan ; the pillar and ground of truth , and with it the whole fabrick of faith and religion , shook and tottered . if it were no errour , they that now call it an errour , are wicked catholicks , and in damnable errour . nor , though all the doctours of sorbon , all the parliaments and vniversities of france , all the fryars or blackloists in england or ireland , all the libertines , politicians and atheists in the world , should declare for it , could it ever be an authority to make it a probable opinion . the second treatise against the oath of allegeance . some few questions concerning the oath of allegeance , which have now been publick for divers years , reduced to one principall question , concerning the substance of the said oath . chap. i. the occasion and state of the present question . in the year . was published a small treatise under this title , [ some few questions concerning the oath of allegeance , which were proposed by a catholick gentleman in a letter to a person of learning and honour . ] a late officious hand hath now in the year . * thought it seasonable to re-publish this short and judicious treatise , for the satisfaction of such as are at present either concerned , or curious . the authour 's professed design in these questions concerning the oath was , to propose his sense by way of quaere's ; wherein he hopes not to be accused of presumption , whilst he onely seeks what he professeth not to know : and yet is so knowing , that though he could heartily wish for a more condescending form of oath , he † sticks not to affirm , and he is positive in it , that if the manner of expression were a little changed , every syllable of the substance might be intirely retained . now if you ask him what he means by the substance of the oath , he expresly tells you , that * the substance of the oath is , the denying and abjuring the pope's power to depose princes . for my part , 't is as far from my thoughts , as forrein to my present purpose , to speak any thing in favour of this deposing power : nor shall i at all play the criticall interpreter of the oath , nor concern my self with raising any artificiall and learned obscurities , such as the publisher hints at , about any inconvenient phrase , nor boggle at the form and dress ; but closely apply my reason to the substance of the oath , taking for the measure of its notion the rule and standard the authour of the questions hath already given us , saying that the substance of the oath is the denying and abjuring the pope's power to depose princes . here then lies the grand case , here is the principal question , whether a catholick may ( i do not say barely deny , but ) deny by oath , and universally abjure , the pope's power to depose princes . concerning which question , first , as i meet with nothing either in the authour or publisher of the questions which in my judgement does in the least evince the affirmative : so , secondly , i think enough is said by both to conclude manifestly for the negative , to wit , that no catholick can safely admit of and take the substance of the oath , even as the case is understood , and stated in the authour 's own terms . this i shall endeavour with all possible clearness and brevity to make out in the first place ; and afterwards set down and answer the grounds the authour of the questions proceeds on , which are principally three . . the censure of many famous french universities , denying , rejecting and condemning the doctrine of the pope's deposing power , as new , false , erroneous , contrary to the word of god , pernicious , seditious , and detestable . . the subscription of the french iesuits to two of the most remarkable of these censures . . the practice of the clergy , the religious and the wiser sort of the laiety in other countries , when the pope makes war , or any other way contends with their sovereign princes or states . all which being put together , to the end it may appear how far the argument even in its full and united strength is from reaching our case , let it be once more remembred , that the state of our question is not , whether a catholick may deny , reject , censure and condemn the pope's power to depose princes , ( which yet is the utmost that can be proved by warrant of these forrein precedents ; ) but , whether he may safely deny , reject , censure , and condemn by his oath , and universally abjure , this deposing doctrine : this is that which the authour of the questions affirms ; that which he calls the very substance of the oath ; and that for which i am sure no french university , quoted by him , no subscription of the iesuits , no practice of the clergy , the religious and the wiser sort of the laiety in other countries , afford us so much as any single instance . chap. ii. why it cannot be safe either to swear to the deposing doctrine as true , or to abjure it as false . since it is but even more undeniably evident then all good men have cause to wish , and that experience , the easiest and clearest of arguments , puts it but too sadly beyond dispute , that this grand controversy , ( whether the pope hath any power and authority to depose princes for any cause pretence , or exigency whatsoever , ) hath been for divers ages from time to time disputed in the schools by speculative men in their subtile and notionall way of reasoning : and what * trithemius recorded to posterity above years agoe , ( that scholastici certant , & adhuc sub iudice lis est , utrùm papa posset imperatorem deponere , ) may , for ought we know , years hence be as much a question , and as far from ending , as now it is ; whereas even in our days the controversy finds but too many stirr champions and abettors to maintain the quarrell , and keep life in the debate by their warm and smart contests ▪ no clear and authoritative decision of the point yet appearing to which both sides think themselves obliged to stand and acquiesce : since likewise , when a point is thus in dispute amongst catholick princes , ( some of them peremptorily denying and hotly opposing what others as positively assert and vigorously maintain , and this openly , avowedly , and in the face of the world , ) no one can determinately swear to either side of the point in dispute as true , nor warrantably abjure the other as false ; for this were to swear a thing as true , or to abjure it as false , which is confessedly in dispute whether it be so or no , which is never lawfull : from hence i conceive , that for the deciding of our question , ( whether a catholick may lawfully abjure the pope's deposing power and authority , ) there needs no more then barely to suppose , that it is a question whether the pope hath any such power and authority or no. for here one question resolves the other : grant this second to be a question , the first will be none . for if it be a question whether the pope hath any such power and authority or no , no man can safely swear , that without all question he hath none ; i say , without all question , because what we swear as true ought to be unquestionably such , otherwise we fall under the guilt and sacrilege of perjury . for a more full evidence and farther clearing of this so important a truth , ( namely , that the swearing or abjuring a controverted doctrinall point unavoidably draws upon us the execrable guilt of perjury , ) let us consider the difference of oaths in generall , and the different parts of the oath of allegeance in particular . of oaths some are assertory , others promissory . an assertory oath is , when we positively say such or such a thing is true or false , and then bind this saying of ours with an oath : a promissory oath is that whereby we engage to doe what we promise , or to leave undone what we promise not to doe , and thereupon give our oath as a bond of performance . the oath of allegeance is a mixt oath , partly assertory , ( as where it is affirmed that the pope hath not any power or authority to depose the king , or to authorize any forrein prince to invade or annoy him or his countries , or to discharge any of his subjects from their allegeance , &c. ) partly promissory , ( as namely , where the swearer engages that , notwithstanding any declaration , or sentence of excommunication , or deprivation , made or to be made against the king , his heirs or successours , he will bear faith and true allegeance to them , he will defend them to the utmost of his power against all conspiracies or attempts whatsoever . ) that which here principally falls under consideration is the nature of an assertory oath : in which oath it is essentially requisite , that what we do swear be undoubtedly and unquestionably true ; and all little enough for the securing us against god's and truth 's sworn enemy , perjury , which abominable sin is defined by the * schools to be a lie confirmed by oath : and to lie , saith † st. austin , is to speak against that which a man thinks in his mind or conscience , or , as we usually express it , when a man speaks not as he thinks ; viz. when there lies a secret check and contradiction in the breast to what is uttered by the mouth . put these two together , and the case stands thus : to speak contrary to what a man thinks in his conscience , is , according to true morals , the definition of a lie ▪ and , to swear contrary to the inward dictates of his conscience , is that wherein consists the formall notion and malice of perjury . now this swearing contrary to what a man thinks in his conscience may happen two ways : not onely when he is conscious to himself , and knows that what he swears is not true ; but also when he knows not , and therefore doubts , or hath just cause to doubt , whether it be true or no : in which case if he chance to swear , it is at the perill of his soul , and contrary to the secret information of his conscience , which must needs check at the act , and inwardly protest against it . for it is a folly beyond dotage , and carries with it the prejudice of the highest self-condemnation imaginable , for a man to say , i will swear such a thing is true , and yet i know not , i doubt , or have just cause to doubt , whether it be so or no. chap. iii. an objection answered ; with a farther display of the former evidence . if any one shall here pretend , that he for his part is so far from doubting , that he is already fully perswaded , and thinks verily in his conscience , the pope hath not any power or authority to depose kings ; and why then may not he safely swear as he thinks , because no more is required of him then onely to swear according to the best of his knowledge ? let him who pretends this please to remember , that neither is less required of him then to swear according to a true knowledge ; that is , that he be sure or certain , and have no just cause to doubt of the truth of what he swears . let knowledge then signify knowledge ; let it not be a meer term , or the abuse of a term : let not , i think , but , i know ; not , i am perswaded , but , i am certain , be the ground of his oath , and he is secure . but if his knowledge signify no more then his uncertain perswasion and judgment that the thing is so or so , then the best of his knowledge is to him no better then ignorance ; and to swear according to the best of his knowledge , will be the same as to swear according to the best of his no-knowledge : and it is this want of knowledge will arraign , convict and condemn him at the bar of his own heart for a forsworn man. thus if a witness in any publick court of justice should offer to swear a thing as true , and yet , being ask'd if he were sure of it , should answer , no ; though we should suppose that he verily thinks it true , yet if he be not certain of it , 't is manifest it may be as well false , as true , for any thing he knows ; for thinking is one thing , and knowing another . and therefore if upon no better ground then his thinking it to be true , he should offer to swear it is so , no honest man would stick to say , this witness owes a forfeiture to the pillory , and satisfaction to god and man for so foul a scandal , in offering to swear a thing to be true , which he knows not whether it be so or no. true it is , where an oath is tendered requiring no more but onely to swear a man's perswasion and judgment , ( not absolutely what is or is not true , but onely what he thinks is or is not true , ) there indeed a man may swear according to true knowledge , in regard the familiar converse and intimacy with his own thoughts may give him a sufficient assurance and certainty of the truth of what he is to swear ; because in this supposition he is to swear no more then what he thinks : but if any one should goe about to transfer this qualifying gloss and milder exposition to the oath of allegeance , as an expedient to prevent the sad danger and heavy charge of perjury , in abjuring the controverted doctrine of the deposing power , as if no such abjuring was intended by the oath ; ( which yet the authour of the questions terms the very substance of the oath ; ) let him who either makes or values this gloss but cast an eye upon the first , the middle and the last branches of the oath , and he will plainly perceive , this is onely an exchange of one perjury for another : it alters indeed the mode , but shuns not the guilt ; and by striving to weather out one rock , splits upon another . for first , in the beginning of the oath the swearer solemnly calls god and the world to witness the truth of what he is about to acknowledge , profess , testify , and declare in his conscience ; and then , having uttered all he has to say , ( and particularly , in one of the middle clauses , having not onely abjur'd the pope's deposing power , but also abjur'd it as hereticall , ) in the end concludes thus , [ and all these things i do plainly and sincerely acknowledge and swear according to these express words by me spoken , and according to the plain and common sense and understanding of the same words , without any equivocation or mental evasion or secret reservation whatsoever . ] by which last clause he again ratifies and binds afresh all his former asseverations and already-sworn engagements , by a repeated and reflex oath looking universally back upon the premisses : and all these things ( says he ) i do plainly and sincerely acknowledge and swear . now amongst all these things which he doth thus plainly and sincerely acknowledge and swear , the chief and principal of all others was , that the pope hath not any such power and authority as we speak of . and he farther adds , that he swears this according to the express words by him spoken , without any equivocation , mental evasion , or secret reservation ; that is , without any farther gloss or comment upon his own thoughts or words whatsoever . whereas on the contrary , if we should suppose , that , whilst he expresly abjures the deposing doctrine , and absolutely swears that the pope has not any such power and authority , he yet reserves in his mind a mental evasion and secret meaning of his words , ( viz. that he onely thinks and is perswaded he hath no such power and authority ; ) then directly he forswears himself in swearing otherways then what he professes to swear , that is , in swearing not according to his express words , but according to an unexprest meaning of his words , which thing he utterly disavowed and renounced by his oath . and is not this a remedy as bad as the disease , and a rare expedient to prevent the danger of perjury , to make a man forswear himself for fear of being forsworn ? let us make the best hand of it we can ; here is onely choice of perjuries for the comfort and relief of the swearer , whether he do or do not abjure the deposing power . for if he pretend not to abjure it , this is contrary to his express words , according to which he professeth to swear , and by which he doth expresly swear that the pope hath not any deposing power ; and so he is perjur'd , by pretending to swear one thing , and actually swearing another ; which is as much as to swear two oaths in one , the one directly cross and contradictory to the other . but if he do abjure , ( as absolutely he doth , if he takes the oath , ) this same abjuring is the very charge of perjury which is now under my pen , and , as i conceive , inevitable , by reason that the necessary knowledge , certainty and assurance of the truth of what he swears , or of the falsehood of what he abjures , ( without which every such assertory oath necessarily ends in perjury , ) is not to be had nor expected , whilst this speculative point remains under dispute ; a dispute ( as experience too clearly testifies ) not yet effectually determined by any publick , nor , i am sure , determinable by any private authority , as shall appear yet more fully in the next chapter . chap. iv. a continuation of the former discourse , shewing the manifest unlawfulness , as of swearing , so of abjuring the deposing power . a duty we owe to the pope , ( saith the * authour of the questions , ) a duty to the king ; both commanded by god , both obliging under sin , yet both confined to their proper limits : too much of the temporal may be ascribed to popes , too much of the spiritual to kings , too much may be challenged by both . all which is most true ; but the difficulty is , when these two supreme powers contest ( as actually they do ) concerning power in temporalls , who shall then be judge ? the pope claims a deposing power , the king denies it : if the pope be judge , the deposing power will carry it ; if the king , it will be cast . if we consult or appeal to the authority of the learned , and bring the cause to their bar , there is nothing but noise , censures , and loud disagreements . bellarmin and suarez write for the deposing power , and are condemned at paris : barkly and withrington appear against it , and are condemned at rome : the censurers all this while on both sides professing a previous , mature and impartial examination of the books and doctrines they condemn . caron , the laborious defender of the first remonstrance , in his loyalty asserted what betwixt canonists and divines , schoolmen and fathers , popes , councils , universities and kingdomes , is said to have made a catalogue of more then opposers of the deposing doctrine . on the contrary , what number of favourers and abettors there are for it , may appear by this , that even the authour of the th controversial letter tells us , ( pag. . ) that the face of authority is on that side ; and again , ( pag. . ) that of learned men , those who write of this subject , write generally in favour of it : as likewise the authour of the questions , in his preface , acknowledgeth the maintainers of the deposing power to be the more numerous party , and that he himself sides with the few against the many ; and withall granteth , ( pag. . ) that this act of deposing kings hath not onely been done by popes , but approved by councils . if we step over into france , there we are strangely surprized with instances on both sides . behold in the year . eight universities of that realm declare smartly against the deposing power : and yet but a few years before , viz. in the year . in the general assembly of the three estates , ( in which were present cardinals , archbishops , and bishops , besides many other learned ecclesiasticks and dignitaries of the gallican church , ) two parts of three of this great representative of that kingdome were of another mind , and so far from hearkening to or countenancing the hot proposalls that were made against the deposing doctrine , that they left it in possession , as they found it , of whatsoever right or title it could pretend to . what now shall the private christian and loyal subject doe , who passionately desireth to share himself in all humble duty between god and caesar ? what , i say , shall he doe in this unfortunate competition of the two grand powers ? shall he by his single sufficiency dare to assume to himself the right of judicature , and boldly swear either for or against the deposing power , and to pass a decisive sentence under oath , that the pope hath , or hath not , the power in contest ? were i worthy to offer my advice in this particular , i should conceive it much more pertinent and proper for him seriously to consider with himself , whether an act of this nature be not the same , or rather indeed much worse then if a stander by , upon hearing an assembly of grave divines or counsellours learned in the law , all of them much above his size and abilities in their respective professions , warmly debating a perplext law-case , or sturdy knot in divinity , should by a rash and unlicensed confidence take upon him the umpirage of the cause , and without any more adoe bluntly swear these men are in the right , and the other in the wrong , or the others are in the right , and these in the wrong : and whether he proceed not upon as meer a blind peradventure , whatever part of the contradiction he swears in this last case , and that it be not as slippery a piece of pure contingency in him , whether he hit or miss ; as if upon the sight of an handfull of guinnies , he should all at a venture swear odde or even for a wager ; since that he hath no true knowledge for his guidance , nor the least degree of certainty to steer by or fix him . chap. v. a farther confirmation of the premisses . all this which i have hitherto discoursed is no more then what is evidently deducible from and throughly grounded in the principles and concessions of those learned persons who utterly deny the pope hath any power to depose princes ; who yet neither do , nor can , make out a title and claim for their doctrine to any higher pretence or degree then that of opinion : and in this , i presume , i shall speak the sense of all , if i say , it is never lawfull , nor justifiably safe , to swear to an opinion as true , nor to abjure an opinion as false , ( speaking , as here i do , of such free and debatable tenets as are openly and avowedly held and taught by catholick divines , divided amongst themselves in their private sentiments and school-disputes , ) because no one of these opinions can sufficiently answer for its own truth , nor secure the officious swearer , who lends it his oath , that he goes christianly and groundedly to work , whether side soever of the opinion he makes choice of to be sworn or abjur'd . for it is not in opinions as in things which we know by clear and certain evidence , as it happens in those early and fair notions implanted in us by nature from the first glimmering of reason , called first principles , as , that every whole is greater then a part of the whole ; it is impossible for the same thing to be and not to be at the same time , &c. which great maxims of nature sufficiently speak for and evidence themselves , without the help of syllogisms , moods , or figure ; and are no sooner understood , then readily and necessarily assented unto . nor is it in opinions as in certain scientifical deductions and demonstrative conclusions , partly flowing connaturally by a train of immediate consequences , partly drawn and hammered out with much pains , study and speculations from the abovesaid principles : which deductions ▪ and conclusions are called sciences , whose chiefest property and richest piece of satisfaction , whereby they gratifie the understanding of man , is their clear and convincing evidence , placed beyond all contradiction from sense or reason . nor , lastly , is it in opinions as in those supernaturall truths made known unto us by divine revelation , and are of faith ▪ where there is absolute certainty , though without evidence : for faith wears a scarf before her eyes , and believes what she sees not . both which , to wit faith and science , as they justly command and challenge , so withall they fully secure our assent from all danger , and suspicion of errour , the one by its evidence , the other by its certainty ; the one interessing the light and patronage of the first principles , the other engaging a divine and infallible authority for the truth of their proposalls . but in opinions it fares quite otherwise : for an opinion having neither the evidence of science , nor the certainty of faith , nor indeed any other inferiour degree of certainty , physicall or morall , ( as the schools speak , ) but onely the slippery knot of probability to hold by , leaves the considering opiner in a state of suspence and indetermination , not daring , nor indeed knowing how , to yield any more then a faint and timorous assent to either side of the tenet , seeing that neither side is any more then onely probably true , or probably false . and because true , and onely probably true , false , and onely probably false , are not the same , but two very different things , and at so great a distance , that no art or law of consequence can ever bring them together , or convincingly argue from the one to the other ; hence it is , that what is onely probably true , is not therefore true , and what is onely probably false , is not therefore false : from whence it is finally and manifestly concluded , that neither side of an opinion is lawfully attestable by oath as simply true , nor safely abjurable as simply false . to come now to the particular tenet which denies the pope's deposing power in all cases , circumstances and emergencies whatsoever . if we address our selves to the maintainers and abettors of this tenet , if we consult the authour and publisher of the questions , if we propose the case to the sorbon doctours and the faculty of paris , we shall find all their answers concurring in this , that their negative tenet is no more then an opinion . for , first , the publisher of the questions coming to speak of the difference between the deniers and abettors of this power , and the nature and quality thereof , plainly professeth , that this difference is no difference of faith , but onely of opinions : and the authour of the questions calls it an opinion ; a safe opinion indeed , but no more or other thing then an opinion : an opinion also the sorbon doctours take it for ▪ nor is their own censure or doctrine any more then their opinion . neither do they , nor indeed could they with any shew of reason , or coherence to their own principles , discourse at any other rate , or ever intend to screw it up any higher then an opinion . for it is not to be imagined , that those grave , learned and prudent divines , who in their publick articles concerning papal and regal authority ( in the year . ) do not own or look upon any censures , decrees or definitions of rome , ( antecedent to , and abstracting from , the joynt consent or acceptation of the church as inerrable , ) would ever goe about to set up an independent or infallible chair in the sorbon , and deliver their doctrine either as a point or article of faith in it self , or as a rule of faith to others , but onely as a rule of opinion , ( if you please ) and a judgment whereby such as were under their charge might remember to frame and regulate ( not their faith , but ) their opinions : which are the express words of the decree it self . since then the deniall of the pope's deposing power neither doth nor can pretend any higher then an opinion , admit that its being the opinion of so many learned divines might render it safe to hold and embrace it ; yet it s being but an opinion , though of learned divines , renders it unsafe to swear it , and no less unsafe to abjure what is contrary to it . the reason i have already given , because nothing can lawfully be sworn as true which is not more then meerly probable or probably true , that is , which is not either certain or infallible : now all the learned know , that a certain or infallible opinion is as great a bull as an uncertain fallible article of faith ; so that to swear to an opinion as certainly true , is as much as to swear an opinion is no opinion , and the swearer doth thereby at one breath intangle himself in his own words , his reason in a contradiction , and his soul in perjury . chap. vi. a particular danger of abjuring the pope's deposing power according to the form set down in the oath of allegeance . i shall here annex a particular consideration of the wofull snare those souls run themselves into , and apparent danger of swearing they know not what , who venture to abjure the deposing power as it lies expressed in its several branches in the oath of allegeance ; whereas those learned persons who undertook to defend and explain the oath render it not onely difficult , but next to impossible , to understand what it is that is to be abjured . i think i may take it for granted , that no person of integrity and candour can ever conceive it lawfull for him to swear , without first endeavouring to gain a right understanding of what he is to swear : for to swear what a man understands not , is blindly to rove at a venture , and to swear he knows not what , wilfully abandoning the conduct , and slighting the inward upbraidings and reproofs of his reason : and , which is worse , it bewraies a feared soul , a wretched and sinfull preparednesse of mind to prostitute an oath to the attesting of any thing that comes next to hand , where self-indemnity or other secular ends and advantages are proposed as the accursed purchace or reward of perjury . in the oath of allegeance it is required of us to abjure the pope's deposing power in all and every its respective branches therein expressed : one of which branches is , that the pope hath not any power to authorize any forrein prince to invade or annoy the king or his countries . which branch ( by the way ) the authour and publisher of the questions in the form of the oath set down by them have wholly omitted in both editions , as well that of the year . as the other of this present year . through what mistake or how occasioned i know not . it is not easily to be conceived what subtle obscurities and learned intricacies roger withrington , one of the greatest champions that ever appeared for the oath , and his friend c. i. ( who confesseth to have compiled his * book out of withrington's expresse grounds and doctrine , ) plunge themselves and their reader into , in descanting upon this one point of the oath . † they tell us , that by this clause is not denied the pope's authority to command ( but onely his power to authorize ) in temporals , in order to a spirituall good ; or , to declare that they who have authority to depose , or to make war , are bound to use their temporal authority , and to draw the temporal sword , when the necessity of the church and spiritual good of souls shall require the same : for that this authority to declare and command doth not exceed the limits of a spiritual power . thus these learned persons . let me here intreat the courteous reader to lend me his eyes and attention to help me out . for if temporal princes , as is here supposed , have power and authority to invade or annoy forrein princes or their countries , nay to depose them , when the good of souls and necessity of the church shall require it ; if the pope is to be judge of this necessity , and to declare when , against whom , and upon what occasion the temporal sword is to act its part by invading or annoying the delinquent prince his person or state ; if , i say , the pope hath power ( though not to authorize , yet ) to declare , and not onely to declare , but to command the doing of all this , as being in the line of spirituality , and within the vierge of an ecclesiasticall jurisdiction : truly my opinion is , ( and i think every sober and disinteressed judgment will upon due reflexion subscribe to the same , ) that this doctrine , as it contributes little to the security of princes , and as little to the satisfaction of intelligent readers ; so it is not every one can easily understand , or be able to reconcile it to truth and its self : for , if i mistake not , it foully clashes with both . for , ( since we are here treating of the legality or illegality of an oath , and what we may or may not safely swear or abjure , ) what can seemingly have more of the riddle , or less to the purpose in it , then to be gravely told for our instruction , and the quieting of our consciences , that we may lawfully abjure the pope's power of authorizing , but not in any wise abjure his power of commanding a forrein prince to invade or annoy his majesty or his kingdoms ? again , that we may safely swear the pope hath no power to depose princes , but that we must not abjure his power of commanding others to depose them ? alas ! and is not this a much mistaken favour , a mere mock-pretence of security to crowned heads , and of ease and relief to troubled consciences , wholly built upon this nice and ambiguous distinction , of authorizing , and commanding ? a distinction in this case so subtile , that it is impossible to find where the difference lies , and is therefore in very deed no distinction at all ; either in respect of the king , to whom it is all one , ( and his perill or ruine undistinguishably the same , ) whether he be invaded and deposed by the pope's authority , or onely by his command . neither is it any distinction in respect of the swearer , who cannot securely , nor without a self-contradiction , ( from which this distinction can never clear him , ) swear that the pope hath not any power and authority to depose princes , if he have power and authority to command others to depose them : because this authoritative injunction of his is enough to intitle him to the fact ; and his very commanding others to depose , both makes and denominates him the deposer . besides all this , if it be true what these authours assume , that temporall princes have ( when the good of souls and the necessity of the church requires it ) power to depose one another , how can any man , being of this opinion , lawfully swear the pope hath not any such power , who , as we all know , is a mixt person , and as well a temporal prince as a spiritual pastour ? and therefore it would argue great partiality in this doctrine , wholly to exclude him , at least as he is a temporal prince , from his share in the deposing power : from whence it would finally follow , that the oath could not be taken without a distinction of different formalities in the same person , that is , without distinguishing the pope as pope from himself as he is a temporal prince ; and then also the two formalities being at odds , the temporal prince would be the more powerfull pope of the two . these and the like entangled positions i take to be clearly consequential , and absolutely necessary inferences from the aforesaid dark and perplexed discourse of these authours . now the use and advantage the reader may please to make hereof is this sober and wholesome reflexion , that since withrington , who bestowed much pains , and since large and learned comments , upon the oath , since he , i say , whilst he pretends to explain one of the branches of that very point wherein the substance of the oath consists , ( according to the authour of the questions , ) leads us into such a labyrinth of thorny and insignificant distinctions , cross and thwarting niceties of words , as that a more then ordinary clue of reason and attention is necessary to wind us out ; what consciencious and considerate person of less leisure , industry , learning , and other abilities , then withrington was , seriously pondering this oath , shall hope he understands what he is to abjure , or dare to abjure what he understands not ? chap. vii . the just plea of conscience in refusing to abjure the deposing doctrine consider'd with the like reference to the depositions of popes as of kings . i am much taken with the seasonable advice and wholesome caution i find in the fourth of the controversial letters , which i shall elsewhere have occasion to quote more at large : princes and bishops , saith this gentleman , ( pag. . ) are both sacred ; let what belongs to them be so too , and not touched without the excuse of necessity , or obligation of duty . it was under the warrant of this apology to my own thoughts , and the confidence of my reader 's candour , that i first engaged in this discourse ; and that now , for his farther satisfaction , ( to shew that there is nothing of any popishly-affected partiality in the refusing this abjuring oath , but that our recusancy is wholly grounded upon sound reason and upright conscience , ) i shall compare the unlawfulness of abjuring the pope's deposing power , with the like unlawfulness of abjuring the power of deposing popes ; both these powers· being alike controvertible amongst some of the learned , whereof divers do freely and openly teach that popes may be deposed as well as kings , and for the like cause . for which end i shall here advance and confront in their severall instances two propositions of a more large and comprehensive nature in relation to the deposing power : as first , that there is absolutely no power or authority upon earth , either spiritual or temporal , to depose kings , let the cause or pretence be what it will ; secondly , that there is absolutely no such power or authority upon earth , spiritual or temporal , to depose the pope . the first of these propositions is that which in the year of our lord . the house of commons in france , in the general assembly of the three estates , would have been at , and offered not onely to own and swear to it themselves , as a fundamental and holy law , but also passionately endeavoured that others should be compelled by rigorous penalties to doe the like . but the project was stifled in the birth , and the abortive bill laid aside by the lords spiritual and temporal , who , well weighing the controverted nature of the case , were more considerate , and tender of their oaths , then to venture them upon a foundation which , take whether side they pleased , must needs fail , and betray the swearer to an active sin and shame . but what shall we say to the second proposition ? may we not strain a little farther for the pope then the king ? will not religion bear us out , if we adventure to swear , that there is not any power upon earth , spiritual or temporal , to depose the pope ? to which i answer , it is neither religion , veneration , duty , or awe to the see of rome , which ought either to perswade or extort , any more then it can legitimate , such an oath ; which it can never do , in regard of the publick and unreproved disputableness of the case . for whether we consider matter of fact or right , it is no news amongst catholick divines , that if the pope should become an heretick , ( and they grant the [ if ] to be no impossible supposition , ) he then forfeits his right to the apostolical chair , and thereupon may lawfully be judged and deposed by the spiritual power of the church . and this is a doctrine which hath been long publick to the world ; a doctrine pretending a canonical constitution and a conciliary act for its ground and support ; a doctrine not unknown to italy , yet uncensured at rome , nay , held and taught by some who lived and wrote even at the pope's feet . where , by the way , our impartiall school-men seem at least to clear themselves from all sinister prejudices of favour and flattery , and the stale imputation of framing and modelling their doctrines to the humour and interest of the court of rome ; whereas we here see that some of them , and those of eminent note , make as bold with the common father of the church , the pope himself , and even run him down with their speculations as confidently , and with as much show of zeal , as at other times they set themselves to unthrone the meanest prince in christendome , upon the same pretence . and though his holiness knows that popes sit not so fast , nor are so firmly rivetted to their thrones , but that divers of them have been deposed ; and sees withall this particular deposing doctrine , threatning popes no less then princes , taught under his very eyes , and for the same cause , and that cause heresy , and that heresy hath even by catholicks been charged more then once against some of his predecessours : yet ( notwithstanding this concurrence and complicated pretence of fears and jealousies ) he never goes about to establish his rights , person and authority , by any such assertory oath as ours is ; but chuseth rather to trust providence with his concerns , then that the triple crown should owe any part of its security to an illegal and unnecessary oath , or his people be compell'd needlesly to swear away the peace of their conscience , for securing that of the common-wealth . but to draw the case yet to a nearer parallel , and to close more particularly with the oath of allegeance , wherein we are commanded to swear , that the pope neither of himself , nor by any authority of the church or see of rome , nor by any other means , with any other , hath any power or authority to depose the king ; ( and this to be understood as to comprehend all causes , cases or pretences possible . ) let us spell the oath backwards , and reade pope for king , and king for pope ; and then suppose we were injoyned to swear , that no king or prince , either of himself or by any authority of the church or see of rome , or by any other means , with any other , hath in any possible case any power or authority to depose the pope ; let us see what the schools and the publick and currently-allowed tenets of divinity will award as to the taking or refusing this oath . it is acknowledged on all hands , there are divers instances from history of depositions of popes by temporal princes , as well as of temporall princes by popes , which yet our divines seem to restrain to the common case of heresy : and therefore the otherwise-pious and godly emperour otho incurred at least the mild censure and reprehension of such pens as record the fact , for deposing pope iohn the xii . because ( though he was one of the worst of popes , yet ) by the crime of heresy he was wanting in the black list of his offences to fill up the measure of his crying misdemeanours , and justify the sentence and severity of his deposition ; though even taking the case as it was , not onely the pious emperour ( saith bellarmine ) conceived this pope might be deposed , but many doctours thought so as well as he . but however , nothing is more certain , then that it is a common and allowed opinion of divers divines , that in case of heresy the pope may be judged and deposed by the church . some of which carry it yet a step farther , adding [ ought ] to [ may , ] that is , that he not onely may , but ought to be deposed : and that this may and ought is not onely the churche's right , but her obligation , and she thereby bound to proceed to due execution thereof , to the utmost of her power : and if the pope , who is to be deposed , should chance to resist , oppose and stand in defiance of the churche's judgment , and she not in a condition to call his obstinacy to an account , and to turn him out of his chair by virtue of her spiritual arms alone , and yet her duty still supposed incumbent and pressing upon her , to discharge and free her self and her children from the thraldome of an usurper ; then these authours will tell us , that the law of nature , or that which is a law to it self , necessity , ( which even in causes ecclesiastical takes upon her to justify force , when nothing but force will serve , for the compassing a just and necessary end , ) will prompt the church , as is usual in some other cases , to have recourse to the temporal power , and call in the assistence of the secular arm to her succour . in which juncture , no doubt , any king , prince , or zealous otho , who would please to interest himself in and espouse the churche's quarrel , might both deserve and receive her commission and thanks , to act with authority , as a welcome auxiliary in the holy war , even to the deposing of the pope , and placing another in his throne , in order to the good of souls , and the just recovery of the ecclesiastical liberties and spiritual rights . here then being a case confessedly possible , and an opinion which authority renders probable , in which case , and according to which opinion , kings and princes have , at least by authority of the church , and with others , power and authority to depose the pope , i see no objection offer it self , but the way open and fairly smoothed to this resolution of the case , that no catholick can safely take this counter-oath , nor securely swear , that no king or prince , either of himself , or by any authority of the church or see of rome , or by any other means , with any other , hath ( in any possible case ) any power or authority to depose the pope . and therefore comparing the two oaths together , this and the oath of allegeance , i think that , as no man could rightly be accounted a bad catholick at rome , for denying to take this , so neither can he justly be reputed a bad subject in england , for refusing the other ; because this recusancy is equally blamable in either of the two cases , or absolutely unreprovable in both , the ground of both being one and the same , which indeed is neither favour nor fear of man , but rather a just fear of incurring god's disfavour , and the inviolable duty we owe to truth , and an upright conscience , which lays an indispensable tie of recusancy upon us , so far as never to take any assertory oath , requiring of us to swear or abjure any speculative controverted doctrines , though we suppose the oath to be as much in favour of the pope , as our oath of allegeance is conceived to be of the king. chap. viii . abjuring the deposing doctrine neither is , nor can be any part of the oath , as it is an oath of allegeance ▪ and therefore not at all necessary to a true oath of allegeance . more allegeance may be sworn , and better security given to princes , by abjuring all discourses and disputes in favour of the deposing doctrine , then by abjuring the doctrine it self . i have seen , and taken some pains to peruse , a * book of oaths , and the several terms thereof , ( above two hundred in all , ) both ancient and modern , forrein and domestick , out of sundry authentick books and records , wherein , amongst so many oaths of fealty , service and duty , as are mentioned there , ( which generally run in the promissory strain , ) i find not one that injoyns the swearing or abjuring of any controverted doctrine , save onely our two oaths of allegeance and supremacy ; which upon that account lie under the just exception ( as i think ) of being singular and without precedent in their kind : wherefore what the authour of the questions so expresly assumes , ( my self also , for his and the argument's sake , having been willing hitherto to goe along with him in his own supposition , ) viz. that the abjuring the pope's deposing power is the substance of the oath , cannot be strictly made out without the help and allowance of a distinction , nor regularly understood but onely of the assertory part : for otherwise , if we speak properly , it is so far from being the substance , that it is not so much as a part of the oath , as it is an oath of allegeance , and a bond of duty from the subject to his supreme lord. and of this there will need little proof , when it is considered , that the bond of an oath is in reference to something which is to be performed for the future ; and therefore cannot appertain to an assertory oath , ( which is a thing present or past , ) but belongs onely to a promissory oath . wherefore since it is plain , that this abjuring the pope's deposing power is an assertory oath , there can be no doubt , that it being in it self , and in the nature of the thing , no bond at all , it can be no bond of allegeance , and therefore also no part of the oath as it is an oath of allegeance . and if the forbearing all disputes and discourses any ways favouring the deposing power may be ( as i think it is ) look'd upon as part of our allegeance ; then it follows likewise , that more allegeance may be sworn by the promissory oath , in abjuring all such disputes and discourses in favour and defence of the deposing doctrine , then by abjuring the doctrine it self ; because this last oath of abjuring the doctrine it self , being purely assertory , contains no promise , bond , or tie at all : so that in fine it is the promissory oath alone that is the true oath of allegeance , and the sole bond of duty from the subject to his prince . this i take to be the reason why some learned catholicks , who understood both themselves , the difference of oaths , and the nature of allegeance , full well , having upon sundry emergent occasions exhibited to the publick several oaths of fidelity for the quieting of all state-jealousies and fears from the pope's deposing power , have wholly confined themselves to the promissory form . thus catholick priests made a solemn protestation of their allegeance to queen elizabeth by a publick instrument the last day of ianuary , and the last year of her majestie 's reign , wherein , after having acknowledged the queen ( though divided from the church of rome in communion ) for their true and lawfull sovereign , they promised that they would yield to her majesty all obedience in temporal causes , notwithstanding any authority or any excommunication whatsoever denounced , or to be denounced , against her majesty or her subjects . the like declaration and acknowledgment mr. iames haughton , ( aliàs mr. thomas green , ) professour of divinity of the holy order of saint benedict , gave under his hand to the then lord bishop of durham , the . november an. . and did promise and vow to be a true and faithfull subject to his majesty and his successours during his life , notwithstanding any sentence from the pope whatsoever of excommunication , deposition , or absolution of his majestie 's subjects from their natural obedience to him or his heirs . there hath of late years been often reprinted a brief explanation of the roman catholick belief concerning their church-worship , justification , and civil government , in the last clause whereof are these express words : we are ( say they ) most strictly and absolutely bound to the exact and entire performance of our promises made to any person of what religion soever , much more to the magistrates and civil powers under whose protection we live , whom we are taught to obey by the word of god , not onely for fear , but conscience sake , and to whom we will most faithfully observe our promises of duty and obedience , notwithstanding any dispensation , absolution , or other proceedings of any forrein power or authority whatsoever . and this they sincerely and solemnly professed in the sight of god , the searcher of all hearts , without any equivocation or mentall reservation whatsoever . the objection which some offer against the sufficiency of these or the like forms , grounded upon the difference which the objectours make between [ will not ] and [ cannot , ] is , in my opinion , wholly groundless : what they pretend with so much solicitude in behalf of the state being onely this , that it is not enough for a man to swear he will not , unless he swear also he cannot be dispensed with or absolved from his allegeance . which to me seems no reason at all , why will not may not be as good a subject , and give as full security for his allegeance , as cannot : his oath by which he swears he will not ever accept or make use of any dispensation or absolution from his allegeance , being to him as indispensably binding , and tying him as fast to his prince and his interest , as any oath can possibly do . for if it be replied , that he who now swears he will not ever accept or make use of any such dispensation or absolution , may come hereafter to alter his mind ; and then what is become of his cobweb-oath , and the security he gave for his fidelity ? it may with as much reason and truth be retorted , that he who now swears he cannot be dispensed with , nor absolved from his allegeance , may come hereafter to alter his opinion ; and then where is his cobweb-oath , and the security he gave for his fidelity ? i answer then for both , that though wills and opinions are flippery things , yet an oath may fix both the one and the other ; yet with this difference and advantage against the foresaid opinion , that wills may be fixed immediately , opinions onely mediately , and indeed by no other means then by first fixing of wills. first then , that an oath may immediately fix and restrain the will , i take to be a clear case : for he that swears ( for example ) he will not doe such or such a thing tending to the prejudice of a third person , is without more adoe under as streight and indispensable a ty as any oath can bring upon him ; that is , he cannot so much as change his will , nor goe back with his promise , without perjury , and proving false to god , his own heart , and his oath . as for opinions , since it hath been already proved , that it can never be safe to swear or abjure an opinion ; and then , ( secondly , ) though it were , yet such an oath , being an assertory oath , could bring no bond or obligation upon the swearer , so much as of not changing his opinion for the future : hence it plainly follows , that the way of fixing and restraining opinions is onely mediately , and by first fixing and restraining the will , either by a promissory oath , or by the severity of the law , or by both jointly . for instance , take in king henry the viii . his daies ; upon occasion of the then six famed articles of religion , it was ordained and enacted by authority of parliament , that if any person or persons within this realm of england , or in any other of the king's dominions , did by word , or writing , printing , cyphering , or any otherwise , publish , preach , teach , say , affirm , declare , dispute , argue , or hold any opinion contrary to the foresaid articles , that then such person or persons so offending should be liable to such and such particular penalties as are expressed in the statute . were this pattern copied out by our age , and that there were a law now in force , that if any person or persons within this realm , or in any other of the king's dominions , did by word , writing , printing , cyphering , or any other waies , publish , preach , teach , say , affirm , declare , dispute , argue , or hold any opinion in favour of the pope's power of deposing princes , that then such person or persons so offending should be liable to such and such penal severities , as the legislative power of this nation had in their grave wisedom thought fit to appoint ; were there , i say , such an act as this in force , he who would swear to a strict observance thereof , would have no more to answer for his opinions in this particular . but yet again , though there be no such law extant , let but the good subject be admitted to swear , that he will never by word , deed , or any otherwise , countenance , abett , defend , maintain , preach , teach , or publish any opinion in favour of the pope's direct or indirect deposing power , and for the rest , that he will inviolably bear faith and true allegeance to the king , notwithstanding any dispensation or whatever other proceeding to the contrary , and not onely never act against him , but also assist , to the best of his power and skill , and side with him against any power whatsoever , that shall at any time act against him , or attempt against his sacred person , crown , or dignity : questionless , no security imaginable can be greater then this ; forasmuch as no one can be more faithfully true to his king , or more securely incapable of proving disloyal to him , whilst this oath is kept . and for security that he will keep it , i conceive , no good subject will refuse to swear that he will be content , if ever he fail in the performance hereof , to be deemed and adjudged a disturber of the peace , and an enemy to his king and country , a man forsworn before god and the world ; and will therefore freely offer to be punished as in case of perjury and rebellion , that is , to forfeit his body to the law , his soul to the doom and wrath of the last day , and his name to scorn and reproach . were this throughly weighed and duly sworn , i know no expedient that could more effectually contribute to the perfect quieting of all just fears of the state , nor more securely answer for the peaceable disposition and opinions of the swearer ; whenas even the most hidden thoughts and abstracted notions of the speculative man , being under unjust restraint , and having for guaranty such an oath and sacred engagement , are sufficiently bound to their good behaviour , and secured from all sacrilegious attempts of breaking inclosure , and shewing themselves abroad , though onely by way of publick and open discourse . wherefore i shall conclude with the fourth controversial letter , in behalf of the silencing and abjuring all disputes in reference to the deposing doctrine , heartily wishing , as * he doth , that we may all preserve the majesty of supreme powers in an awfull distance , and submit to them with the reverence of a quiet obedience , and not make them cheap by unreasonable disputes . princes and bishops are both sacred ; let what belongs to them be so too , and not touched , without the excuse of necessity , or obligation of duty : let every quiet and peaceable spirit say , obedience is the duty which god and my condition require from me ; and in the performance of that i will endeavour to be found unblamable , and leave disputing to those who value the praise of a witty and subtle man , above that of a faithfull and quiet subject . chap. ix . an answer to the authour of the questions as far as concerns our present question . in the first place i shall speak to matter of fact , relating to the sorbon censures , and the subscription of the french iesuits ; the clearing of both which particulars from some unwary misrepresentations and disguises of our authour shall be the chief subject of this chapter . the first and leading censure was that of the sacred faculty of theology , which , upon occasion and mature examination of a certain latine book printed at rome . having in the . and . chapters found these propositions , that the pope may with temporal punishments chastise kings and princes , depose and deprive them of their estates and kingdoms , for the crime of heresy , and exempt their subjects from the obedience due to them ; and that this custome hath been alwaies practised in the church , &c. and on the . of april . censured these propositions of that pernicious book , and condemned the doctrine therein contained as new , false , erroneous , contrary to the word of god , rendring odious the papal dignity , opening a gap to schism , derogative of the sovereign authority of kings , which depends on god alone , retarding the conversion of infidels and heretical princes , disturbing the publick peace , tending to the ruine of kingdoms and republicks , diverting subjects from the obedience due to their sovereigns , precipitating them into faction , rebellion , sedition , and even to commit parricides on the sacred persons of their princes : the university of paris in their general assembly on the . of april . decreed , that this censure should be publickly read every year ; and that if any doctour , professour , master of arts , or scholar , should resist , disobey , or make any the least opposition against the said censure , he should immediately be expell'd , and deprived of his degree , faculty and rank , without hopes of re-admittance . the like decrees on the same occasion , the same year , against the same doctrine , were made by seven other universities of france . likewise the french iesuits subscribed the sorbon censures , as the authour of the questions tells us . and that this was actually done , he is confident will not be denied : that it was commanded , we need no farther evidence ( says he ) then the arrest it self of the parliament of paris , dated the . of march . wherein it is ordered , that the priests and scholars of clairmont , and of the other two houses which the iesuits have in paris , should within three daies subscribe the censure made by the faculty of sorbon . this the authour of the questions ; who needed not have been so confident of this last evidence drawn from the arrest of the parliament , which doubtless must needs be a mistake : for otherwise , ( unless we be resolved to rob the year . of some more daies then were thrown out of the year . for the reformation of the calendar , ) it will be a little hard to understand , how the iesuits should be commanded , by an arrest of parliament dated the . of march . to subscribe the sorbon censures within three daies , whereas the first of these censures was not made before the . of april . and the other not before the . day of the same month and year , even according to his own computation . the occasion and ground of the mistake , i conceive , was this ; in the month of december . the sorbon issued out a censure against another book , entituled admonitio ad regem ; and it was the single censure against this book , and not the two other censures against santarellus his book , ( as our authour mistakingly supposed , ) which the iesuits were commanded to subscribe within three daies by an arrest of parliament dated the . of march . and looking back to december . this very quotation and copy of the censure of the . of april is not free from its mistake , or at least of begetting a mistake in others , and making them think the censure more clear and home to the point then possibly it is . for amongst the propositions and doctrines which the faculty of theology had found in the . and . chapters of santarellus his book , the authour of the questions having onely set down these , that the pope may with temporal punishments chastise kings and princes , depose and deprive them of their estates and kingdoms , for the crime of heresy , and exempt their subjects from the obedience due to them , and that this custome has been alwaies practised in the church — here he cuts off what follows , and defeats his reader of his full information with an unreasonable [ &c. ] as if these propositions were the onely , or at least the principal , object of the censure : which yet may justly be doubted , for the faculty goes on in the charge against santarellus , as teaching in the foresaid chapters , that princes may be punished and deposed , not onely for heresy , but for other causes ; ( . ) for their faults , ( . ) if it be expedient , ( . ) if they be negligent , ( . ) if their persons be insufficient , ( . ) if unusefull , and the like ; and then follows the censure it self , not singly and separately upon each proposition by it self , ( which yet is the usual method of the faculty , ) but upon the whole taken in gross : which puts a quite different face upon the matter from what our authour had given it , and renders it doubtfull whether the faculty would have pronounced so severe a judgment against the first part of the doctrine , had not those last propositions proved to be the aggravating circumstance ( or rather cause ) that deservedly occasioned and sharpened the censure . as to the subscription of the iesuits , the true account of that action stands thus : santarellus his book had been condemned at rome , which it was not for our authour's purpose to take notice of , and his doctrine generally cried down , and disavowed by all good men , before ever it fell under the brand of the sorbon censures : all which notwithstanding , such and so eminently singular was the caution and zeal of france against this ( though already sufficiently supprest ) mischief , that upon the . of march . the principal of the french iesuits , with three superiours , and three other ancient fathers , being summoned to appear before the parliament of paris , and being asked what they held as to the points noted in santarellus ; father cotton , the then provincial , ( having in the name of the rest of his order disclaim'd all singularity of opinions different from other divines , ) answered , that the doctrine of the sorbon should be theirs , and what the faculty of paris should determine and subscribe , they were ready to subscribe also . and this indeed may pass for a subscription to the sorbon censures , even before they were made . but from this subscription of the french iesuits our authour runs into another mistake , seeming to wonder why the english iesuits should scruple a downright oath , which is exacted of us , any more then the french iesuits did a simple subscription , which was onely required of them : and then taking upon him a sober and grave style to open the mystery of ( this particular ) iesuitism , he attempts it in these very terms . now were i demanded a reason , ( says he ) why so circumspect and wise a body should act so differently in the same cause , but different countries , i could onely return this conjectural answer , that , being wary and prudent persons , they could not but see the concerns they hazarded in france , by refusing to subscribe , far more important then what they ventured at rome , by subscribing ▪ whenas in england all they can forfeit by declining the oath of allegeance ( being themselves but few , and without the engagements of colledges and foundations , ) is perhaps of less esteem with them , then the interest of their universall body at rome , whence so many advantages are continually derived to the rest of their society . this is to a tittle his full discourse upon this subject . and now were i demanded a reason , why this gentleman should thus freely let loose to a weak and meer conjecturall descant upon the very thoughts and secret intentions of religious men , ( as if any temporal interest were or could be more dear to , or sway more with them then loyalty to their king and country , ) my charity would prompt me to ascribe it to something of a too precipitate and mistaken zeal , or sinister preoccupation of judgement , which is too easily taken up at unawares in this age of ours , and oftentimes fostered to the great prejudice of the innocent , even by persons otherwise of a sober and no immoderate temper ; who might doe a great deal of right , no less to themselves then others , would they be pleased to consider , that this is a great breach of christian charity , and is one day sadly to be reckoned for , when an impartial and all-knowing justice shall sit upon the bench to judge between man and man. neither is the strength of the gentleman's discourse , nor the depth of his politicks , such , but that a very common reason and an easy reflexion ( bating passion and prejudice ) may be machiavil enough both to fathome and answer him . for if the cause of the french and english iesuits were the same , ( as he pretends it is , ) and withall they supposed to be those circumspect , wise , wary , prudent persons , as he is pleased to character them in this place ; then the english iesuits must needs see , that by writing after the copy which the french iesuits have set them , they could not in any likelihood hazard any of their publick concerns at rome , nor justly fear the endangering the interest of their universal body there , by acting no more then the french had done in the same cause without any known check or censure from the see apostolick to this day . and the authour of the questions affords me a convincing proof of this in his second question , from whose mouth i take the words , and argue thus ; that if there be reasons enough to turn the eye of authority quite away from seeing what the french ( iesuits ) so openly avowed in the face of the world , are there not enough to connive at the english ( iesuits , ) who are but a few , and act privately , and not without the excusing plea of extreme necessity ? the argument cannot be disliked , because it is perfectly his own . wherefore if ( as he saith ) the cause of the english and french iesuits be the same , i conceive our authour was much mistaken in his conjectural answer , as to the reason he assigns of their different actings in the same cause . for if the cause be not the same , ( as plainly it is not , ) then this mistake is much the greater , and his charity the less . had he produced a censure against the pope's deposing power ( equal to that of the sorbon ) drawn up , signed and assented to by the generality of seculars and regulars here in england , ( for the satisfaction of the state , demanding as a test of our allegeance the subscription of such a censure , ) and the iesuits alone should stand out , and refuse to subscribe and set their hands to it ; or if he had given us an oath of allegeance , exactly parallel to ours , taken by the french iesuits , and declined by the english ; then indeed the cause of both had been the same , and their actings different : but these two conditions both failing , that is , the french iesuits having no such oath of allegeance to take as ours , nor the english any such censure to subscribe as the french ; evidently the cause of the one and the other is not the same , and so it will be no wonder to an impartial . considerer they should act differently in different causes : though i shall shew afterwards , that nothing can difference either their principles or practices , where the cause will bear it . another mistake of the authour of the questions is , the very reason given by him why he conceiveth the distinction between a simple subscription and a down-right oath to be a meer unnecessary scruple ; because ( saith he ) no sincere and generous honesty will solemnly and deliberately attest under his hand , what he will not in due circumstances swear to be true . how ? swear to be true ? and yet this gentleman knew full well ( had he but reflected on it ) that the onely question here is , of swearing or abjuring opinions . wherefore had this reason of his faln under montalt's hands , and that he had catcht it dropping from a iesuit's pen , how he would have answered it i know not : but i am sure , the daily practice of the church , in a free and unoffensive subscribing of opinions , abundantly confutes it : for what more usuall amongst our greatest divines , in resolving cases of weight and concern , then to deliver and attest their opinion under their hand ? and was it not thus that the faculty of theologie delivered and subscribed their censure , as a judgment for others to remember to frame and regulate their opinions by ? again , doth not our authour himself , in his preface , reason the case in this very manner , that if three or four doctours , nay perhaps one , who hath well studied the point , can make an opinion safe , how much more where a greater number and whole universities engage their judgment ? and if then the french iesuits , submitting their own , subscribed to the judgment of the university of paris , and by it were willing to frame and regulate their own opinions ; let any friend of our authour , or his principles , speak wherein or what was their trespass . for if , as he argues , the authority of so many catholick doctours rendered their opinion safe ; sure it could not be unsafe in the iesuits to subscribe it as such . but now , to draw a generall consequence from a simple subscription to a down-right oath , as our authour doth , and to conclude , that a sincere and generous honesty will oblige a man , in due circumstances , to swear every thing he attests under his hand to be true ; this , in other terms , is to conclude , that a sincere and generous honesty will oblige a man in some circumstances to act against reason and conscience , by swearing an opinion to be true : which kind of oath is a gross offence both against logick and divinity , and no less then sacrilege and self-contradiction , as hath been already proved in the fifth chapter . the last mistake ( waving many others ) i shall concern my self with at present is found in the authour's fourth question , where he informs his reader , that the iesuits are the strictest of all religious in maintaining and extending the pope's prerogatives . this he gives and attests under his hand in print : but i hope his sincere and generous honesty would have been loth deliberately to swear it to be true : for as i question not but he was too good a christian deliberately to swear an untruth ▪ so i think he was too much a scholar deliberately to take this for a truth . for let any learned and unprejudiced person but compare bellarmine , suarez , or any other writer of the society , not onely with the loose and exorbitant fantasies of carerius , musconius , or zecchius , but with other grave religious men , with panormitanus , alvares pelagius , augustinus triumphas , bosius , and too many others to be listed here ; and then let him freely judge and speak as he sees cause , which of these religious are the strictest in maintaining and extending the pope's prerogatives . i am sure io. barkley , one of bellarmine's greatest adversaries , was yet so just to him , as to let the world know , that sixtus quintus expressed his great displeasure ( and it was near passing to a censure ) against the learned cardinall , not for extending , but rather for clipping the pope's prerogatives , by disputing and writing so much as he did against the direct power , and so giving less to the pope then the pope himself claimed , and other religious men asserted as his due . besides , how can it be averred with truth , that the iesuits are the strictest religious in maintaining and extending the prerogative of the deposing power , who of all religious are the onely persons that , by especiall precept and decree , ( which was first made by themselves , and afterwards renewed at the instance of the parliament of paris , ) have silenced this doctrine in their pulpits , shut their school-doors against it , banished it from their publick disputes , and suffer not so much as the mention of it to pass under their pens , unless where necessity or duty make it a crime to be wholly silent ? lastly , how far the iesuits are from being the strictest in maintaining and extending the pope's prerogatives by any particular doctrine of their own , and how ready they are to disavow and renounce all singularity in this kind , both england and france afford us a fair instance , in a very observable ( and , i think , unexceptionable ) harmony of professions and acting between the english and french iesuits in point of allegeance . for as father cotton , the mouth and speaker of the rest of his order in france , freely offered , that the doctrine of the sorbon should be theirs , and that what the faculty of paris should determine and subscribe , they were ready to subscribe also : so in the year . ( the very year wherein these questions concerning the oath of allegeance first came to light ) an english iesuit , in the behalf of the rest of his brethren , offered in print , that what oath of allegeance the english clergy and other religious should agree upon , that they would most readily take themselves , and willingly invite all others to take it . an evidence then which i think a greater cannot easily be given , how far they are from any particular kindness to any less allowable doctrine of their own , who shew so much of submission and deference to others judgments , as best suiting with the modesty and humility of religious men . chap. x. the rest of the answer to the authour of the questions . after a carefull survey , and a no less impartial then particular and due examination , of his small treatise , i find the main question throughout the whole so generally mis-stated by him , even contrary to his own expresse assertions , and the very terms wherein he first proposed , and thereby engaged to dispute it , ( which i set down in the first chapter , and purposely stated the principall controversy out of him , with this previous and particular observation , that our present question was not , whether a catholick may safely deny , but , deny by oath , ( that deniall also being the very substance of the oath , ) and universally abjure the pope's power of deposing princes : ) which point he hath treated so cursorily , and spoken so little directly to it , that the onely application of my former discourse by way of answer to his few proofs , will be all the answer which the rest of his book can justly claim , and the discovery of his mistakes will be the refutation of his arguments . as first , where he endeavours to fetch the parallel over from france to england , arguing from the censures and judgment of the french divines , and pressing the question home , why we may not safely and uncensurably profess as much as they . to which is answered from the foresaid grounds , that though we might safely and uncensurably profess as much as they , yet 't is one thing to profess as much as they , and another to swear as much as they profess ; and that though the first might , yet the second cannot be safely and uncensurably done : and this for the same reason which by repeated instances i have often inculcated , that where catholick divines teach differently , some one way , some another , there can be no safe ground for an assertory oath in either way , because , chuse which of the two ways you please , it will still be a question amongst the learned , whether truth lies in that way or no ; and it is this questionableness of the point ( till the church interpose for the decision of the case ) will rise up in judgment against the swearer , and make out the charge of perjury against him . and truly , were there no more in taking the oath of allegeance , then in subscribing the sorbon censures , i would gladly ask this question of the authour or publisher of the questions , that whereas the said oath hath been long since translated , and hath now travelled abroad in the latine tongue for some more then one or two scores of years , how it comes to pass that so many famous french universities , which so unanimously and solemnly and deeply condemn this position of the pope's deposing power , ( and all this , as the authour of the questions observes , without constraint , voluntarily delivering their free judgment , unmenaced by their king , unconcerned in self-preservation , ) should not ( at least out of a common concern for religion , whose credit is at stake , or out of a sense of compassion to us their suffering brethren in england , where our laws so threatningly command , and our all is so near concern'd ) voluntarily deliver their free judgment , and unanimously subscribe our oath , and by their subscribing encourage us to the taking of it ; if it were really true , that the taking of the said oath amounted to no more then the denying or condemning of this position of the pope's deposing power , or that a simple denying and denying by oath , or condemning and abjuring , were all one . then for his next argument , ( that however the deposing power may by some be held speculatively probable ; yet , as to any execution , it is practically no power at all against one in possession , and consequently may be abjured as such ; ) this , i say , seems too plainly to beg the question , and to take that for an uncontrovertible truth , which hath been already shewn ( and is necessarily implied in the very state of the question ) to be the chief , or rather the onely point in controversie , between the deniers and assertors of the deposing power . for , that this deposing doctrine hath been held by popes and other learned divines , not onely as speculatively probable , but also as safely practicable , even against one in possession , appears manifestly , not onely by their open pretence and claim , but also by their frequent and publick sentence of deposition against severall sovereign powers , ( all of them actually in possession , ) even from the time of the emperour hen. iv. to the days of king hen. iv. of france , the first and last of christian princes who stand as instances upon record , and sad testimonialls , of papal deposition ; the one having had the sentence of deprivation passed against him by pope gregory vii . the other by sixtus v. england in particular hath cause to remember and deplore the lamentable effects of the like sentence pronounced by paulus tertius against king hen. viii . and of pius quintus against queen elizabeth . likewise i have already , in the fourth chapter , quoted the testimony and free acknowledgment of the authour of the questions , that this act of deposing kings hath not onely been done by popes , but approved by councills . all which i do not produce ( any more then he himself doth ) with the least intention or design to interest my self in the decision of that question , or to prove that the doctrine is in it self practically probable ; but onely that it was held so by popes , councils , and learned divines ; and therefore , as being a controverted point of doctrine , can be no due and immediate object of an assertory oath , nor safely abjurable ( even by those who otherwaies hold it safely deniable ) as practically no power at all . there followeth another argument , which the authour of the questions , in pursuance of his usual way of arguing , and conformably to the title of his work , proposeth by way of quere . let them tell me , ( saith he , pag. . ) are they not ready to swear they will faithfully serve their king whiles they live , and that notwithstanding any papall dispensation , or whatever other proceeding to the contrary ? what signifies this but an express renouncing all obedience to the pope in these points ? true , say they , we renounce obedience , but not the acknowledgment of his power : we will adhere to the king , though the pope should depose him ; but will not say he cannot depose him . what wise and reall difference ( as to government and the practicall part of humane life ) can we imagine between these two , i 'll swear never to obey my commander , and , i 'll swear he has no power to command me ? the summe of the first part of this discourse ( which is quite besides the question ) in a short word is this , either deny the pope's authority , or obey it : so that if those good subjects , who are ready to swear they will adhere to the king , though the pope should depose him , will but say ( though not swear ) he cannot depose him , ( which is no more then with the french divines to deny the deposing power , ) then the gentleman and the first part of his argument are satisfied . now to his question that follows , ( which is the second , and indeed the onely pertinent part of his argument ; ) what wise and real difference ( as to government and the practicall part of humane life ) there is between these two , i 'll swear never to obey my commander , and , i 'll swear he hath no power to command me ; they will easily answer , that the last of these two oaths is an assertory oath , and swears to a disputable piece of doctrine as to an absolute truth , which is down-right perjury , as hath been proved already in the . . . and . chapters : the other ( i 'll swear never to obey my commander , to wit , the pope , in this particular case of deposing the king , ) being a promissory oath , and tending wholly to practice , engages not for the absolute truth of any doctrine , but onely for the swearer's allegeance and loyalty , and therefore requires no absolute certainty to build on , but onely a safe and practically-probable opinion , as a sufficiently-strong principle of action , such as the authour of the questions every-where designedly maintains the deniall of the pope's deposing power to be ; from whence they will lastly conclude , that there is as much difference between these two oaths as between perjury and loyalty : and sure that is difference enough , even as to government and the practical part of humane life . in the last place comes his conjectural proof , or rather his meer affirmative presumption , that our glorious ancestours , who refused , and suffered for refusing , the oath of allegeance , would certainly have changed their judgment , had they but seen , read , perused , examined , and throughly considered , all those many particulars which he dilates upon in a large flourish of words . to all which my fifth chapter may serve for a reply , and a sufficient evidence , that had these worthy predecessours of ours seen the unanimous judgment of so many universities , and the publick subscriptions of so many eminent regulars , ( they are the words of the authour of the questions ; ) had they examined the sense of antiquity towards sovereign princes , which acknowledge them supreme in temporals , and accountable to none but god ; had they read the learned treatises composed by catholick writers , both of our own and other nations , where this king-dethroning power is absolutely disavowed ; had they perused the declarations of the kings in france , and arrests of parliaments there ; had they , i say , done all this , and more then this ; yet after all , they could have found the opinion denying the deposing power to be no more then an opinion . neither the judgment of the french universities , nor the learned treatises of both the barkleys , father and son , nor withrington's gloss and exposition , together with the apologetical answer , his theological disputation , and whatever else he wrote against suarez , lessius , fitzherbert and skulkenius , can prove it to be any more then an opinion , in the opinion of the authour and publisher of the questions . and since that enough hath already been said to prove , that an opinionative assent cannot safely ground a consciencious oath , asserting the truth or abjuring the falsehood of the thing that is sworn , i shall now pass to this final conclusion of my discourse , that whereas it is the voice and law of nature , that protection claims allegeance , and that perfect subjection to civil powers under which we live is the strict injunction no less then dictate of reason , whereby it comes to pass that nothing is or ought to be more inviolably dear to a loyal heart , nor more highly and justly valuable in it self , then to be and to bear the name of a good subject ; ( life and fortunes are nothing to it : ) yet since that to take the oath as it lies , were to over-buy that precious title , by making perjury the price of it , and laying out our very souls upon the purchace , whenas it is to be had at a much cheaper rate , and as with more ease to the conscience of the subject , so with no less security to the prince ; we must conclude upon the whole , that it can never be lawfull thus to rob god of the things that are god's , under pretence of rendring unto caesar the things that are caesar's , nor to ground our allegeance to the king upon the forfeiture of our loyalty to the king of kings . the third treatise against the oath of allegeance . several considerations proposed for the satisfaction of such catholicks as desire to be informed concerning the oath of allegeance , enacted tertio iacobi , capite quarto . . concerning the lawfulness of an oath in general ; consider , first , that ( as all do confesse ) three conditions are requisite for the lawfulness of an oath , viz. truth , iustice , and necessity . so that an oath wherein any thing whatsoever contained , though never so little , is either unjust , false , or doubtfull , or if the taking of it be not necessary and effectual to some good end , is unlawfull , and ought to be refused . secondly , consider , that any oath whatsoever , wherein any of the forementioned conditions is wanting , is , according to the constant sentiment of divines , intrinsecally evill , and such as cannot be justified in any case possible , though never so great good be hoped for by taking it , or never so great evill be feared by refusing it . thirdly , consider , that whoever takes any oath , though in it self never so just , without a due previous consideration , swears rashly , and commits a grievous sin. to this all do agree . whence i conclude , that to the end one may lawfully take this oath , it is necessary that , after a serious consideration , he finds nothing therein unjust , nothing false , nothing doubtfull , and that he judges the taking thereof to be requisite and effectuall for some good intent . . concerning the unlawfulness of this oath , deduced from the briefs of popes issued forth against it , consider , first , that the unlawfulness of this oath has been declared by * three several briefs of popes . the first was issued forth by paul the v. september . . the second by the same pope september . . the third by pope vrban the viii . may . . this neither protestants nor catholicks deny . secondly , consider , that several things are contained or involved in this oath , the decision whereof appertains onely to the spirituall and ecclesiasticall court ; viz. how far the spirituall power extends it self , what authority christ left to the supreme spirituall pastour as such , what are the effects of an excommunication , what propositions are hereticall : and the main debate about this oath is , whether it be sinfull or not . the decision of all which things , ( wherein consists the chief difficulty of this oath , ) according to the unanimous consent of both catholicks and protestants , belongs onely to the ecclesiasticall court. withrington , the great stickler for the oath , made his † humble address to the pope concerning this matter , representing unto him his reasons for the lawfulness thereof , and earnestly beseeching him , that , laying aside the misinformation of others , he would be pleased to give his judgment therein according to his own knowledge . which certainly he would never have done , had he not been perswaded that there was something contained in this oath , the judgment whereof did appertain to the pope and to the ecclesiasticall court. moreover , the same authour , with other catholicks who have written in defence of the oath , do plainly professe , that , were the unlawfulness thereof declared by a general council , they would think themselves bound to submit . and yet neither in that case would they be bound to submit , were not the cause ecclesiasticall ; for such causes onely appertain to councills . . consider , thirdly , that the pope is supreme governour in all spirituall and ecclesiasticall affairs : which no true catholick can question . fourthly , that an exteriour * obedience at least is due to the sentence or judgment of all supreme governours , in all matters appertaining unto them , and so far as they do appertain unto them ; which all do grant who grant any government : and consequently , that an exteriour obedience at least is due to the orders or prohibition of the pope in all ecclesiasticall matters . and this all must confess , who confess him to be supreme governour in such matters . fifthly , consider , that it is unlawfull to deny any obedience or compliance that is due , as is manifest ; and by consequence , that it is unlawfull to deny an exteriour obedience to the orders or prohibition of the pope in all matters appertaining unto him , and no farther then they appertain unto him , or in all spirituall and ecclesiasticall matters . sixthly , that the popes have prohibited this oath , by reason of the clauses it contains relating to the ecclesiasticall court , and for spirituall and ecclesiasticall respects onely : viz. for † containing things contrary to faith and salvation ; or , for being noxious and sinfull . for such motives , and no other , are exprest in the forementioned briefs . and consequently , that they have prohibited this oath upon the account of matters appertaining unto them , and no farther then they do appertain unto them . lastly , consider , that whoever takes this oath denies an exteriour obedience to the pope's prohibition contained in the briefs . for he exteriourly takes an oath , which the pope in such briefs prohibits to be taken ; as is evident . . hence i frame this argument , to conclude the unlawfulness of the aforesaid oath : whoever takes this oath , denies an exteriour obedience to the pope's prohibition in matters appertaining unto him , and no farther then they appertain unto him . but it is unlawfull to deny an exteriour obedience to the pope's prohibitions in matters appertaining unto him , and no farther then they appertain unto him . therefore it is unlawfull to take this oath . . if it be objected , first , that the pope's briefs are of no force here in england without the king's approbation , ( which these briefs have not , ) according to the statutes . of edward the third , and . of richard the second , made in catholick times ; and that it cannot be unlawfull to deny obedience to a brief where it is of no force ; neither is there any reason why the present catholicks of england should not have the same liberty to refuse the pope's brief , not approved by the king , as the ancient catholicks had : . in answer to this objection , consider , first , that what is alledged out of the forementioned statutes , does not prove that briefs brought into england without the king's licence are void and of no force ; but onely that those who procure them and bring them hither without the king's approbation , are liable to a praemunire , and other penalties : which is very different . for though it be punishable to doe a thing , yet the thing once done may be valid . those who contract a clandestine marriage here in england are liable to the penalties enacted by the canons in such cases : yet the marriage so contracted is valid and obligatory . . consider , secondly , that should we grant ( as we do not ) that such statutes render the briefs they speak of void and of no force ; they are to be understood either of briefs which import an absolute power in the pope to defeat and avoid at his will the laws and statutes of this realm , and consequently touch the king's regalities , as the statute expresses it , and destroy his sovereignty in temporals ; which the briefs we produce do not ; for they onely enjoyn a meer forbearance of this oath , which certainly does not dethrone his majesty of his sovereignty in temporalls ; as will appear by what hereafter shall be added : or else of briefs enactive , ( as in other kingdoms the like statutes are understood , ) whereby some new law is enacted , or some new thing ordained , relating to the external government of the church ; as the presentments to churches or benefices , or the translation of bishops or bishopricks , and such like things which are mentioned in the statutes : but not of briefs declarative , whereby such a doctrine is declared erroneous or hereticall , such an action sinfull and destructive to salvation . as , for instance , the declarative part of the councill of trent , though never admitted in england by publick authority , does oblige all english catholicks ; but not the enactive part thereof . now the briefs we speak of are not enactive , as is manifest , but declarative : for they do not make this oath unlawfull , but onely declare it to be so . . consider , thirdly , whether , should it be admitted , that these statutes in their primary institution did extend to all briefs whatsoever , it can prudently be thought , that they were ever intended by the catholicks that made them for the condition wherein we now are in england ; viz. of an open rebellion against the pope and the church of rome ; when no brief , though never so just , nor nothing else that comes from rome in order to our spirituall direction , is admitted by publick authority . suppose that before the late civil wars it had been enacted by the king and parliament , ( perhaps there is some such act , ) that no commission sent by his majesty to any particular person should be of force , unless it were delivered unto him by the lieutenant of the county where he resided : could we prudently think , that such an act was ever intended by loyal subjects , that voted it , for the case of a publick rebellion , when all the lieutenants were manifest rebells against the king , and resolved to pass nothing in his favour , and , consequently , to deprive thereby his majesty of all power to send orders to his loyall subjects remaining in england , in a time when he had most need of their assistence ; or that whoever should refuse to obey his majestie 's expresse commands , under such a pretence , could be esteemed a faithfull subject ? . consider , fourthly , whether , should these statutes be taken in the latitude the opponent pretends , all intercourse between the pope and the english catholicks , and all direction from him in order to their spiritual conduct , would not be quite cut off in a time when they had greatest need thereof , ( such is the time of persecution ; ) and all dispensations , indulgences and faculties , and all powers or prohibitions whatsoever , that come from rome , ( for they all come in bulls , briefs , and such like instruments , ) would not be rendered void and of no force . . consider , fifthly , whether this be not against the common perswasion and practice of the english catholicks , not excepting even those who defend the lawfulness of this oath ; who , without any scruple , use their faculties sent to them from rome ; who procure thence , as occasion requires , dispensations , indulgences , and other powers ; who make their application to rome in severall emergencies , ready to submit to the pope's judgment : and whether it would not be very ridiculous , both for them to procure such things , and for the pope to grant them , were it true what this objection pretends , viz. that no brief or grant brought from rome without the king's approbation ( which in this conjuncture of affairs cannot be hoped for ) is here of any force . . consider , sixthly , whether it be reasonable that there should be the same liberty to treat with , ( as the opponent pretends ) or the same obligation to depend of princes who are out of the church , as of those who are in the church , in order to ecclesiasticall affairs : such is the admission or refusall of the pope's bulls or briefs : and consequently , whether the present catholicks of england ought to have the same dependence of their prince ( who is no catholick ) in order to ecclesiastical matters , as the ancient english catholicks had of their princes , who were catholicks . certainly no body will say , that we have the same obligation to depend of governours who are rebells in order to civill concerns , as of those that are faithfull ; or that there ought to be the same liberty to treat with persons infected , as with persons who are not infected . it was no absurdity for the ancient catholicks of england , to make their application to their catholick princes , for leave to get such a grant from the pope ; whereas now it would seem very absurd , should they make any such application to his majesty . for though we do acknowledge our selves to be as much bound to obey his majesty in all civill and temporall concerns as the ancient catholicks were bound to obey their respective catholick princes ; yet hence it does not follow , that we are so much bound to depend of his majesty that now is ( so long as he is of a different religion from us ) in order to ecclesiasticall discipline , as the ancient english catholicks did depend of their princes . . consider , lastly , that in the above-mentioned statute of richard the second express mention is made of the sentence of excommunication ; yet all catholicks , even those who deny the pope to have any power to depose kings , do unanimously grant him a power to excommunicate kings , if they become hereticks , and remain obstinate : nay , king iames refused to oblige his catholick subjects to renounce such a power in the pope . now , according to this objection , no sentence of excommunication fulminated against any english king ( the same is of any of his subjects ) is of any force here , unless approved and submitted unto by himself : and if he submits unto it , he is not obstinate , and by consequence does not deserve to be excommunicated . so that if what this objection pretends be true ▪ the pope has no power to excommunicate any hereticall king of england , unless in a case wherein he deserves it not : which is , to have no power at all to excommunicate him . . if it be objected , secondly , that the pope with a generall councill is above the pope without it ; that with it he is infallible , without it fallible ▪ and that therefore we are not bound , with our own prejudice , to stand to his decrees which are issued out without a generall councill , as these briefs are , nor to forbear taking this oath , till the unlawfulness thereof be declared by a generall councill , the supreme judge of controversies , which hitherto has not been done : that the pope may be , and was mistaken and misinformed concerning this oath , thinking that therein are contained severall things repugnant to faith and salvation , though he specifies none of them ; and that thereby is abjur'd implicitly a power in the pope to excommunicate princes , and his supremacy in spiritualls ; all which is false ; and we are not bound to submit to briefs grounded upon mistakes and misinformations : that the pope is a party in this debate , and by consequence ought not to be judge in his own cause : that he must give sentence according to the canons or rules prescribed him by the church ; which he does not observe in the prohibition of this oath : finally , that we ought not to take notice of the prohibitions or commands of the pope , when the compliance with them may be a cause of great disturbance in the church , or is prejudiciall to the right of others , especially of sovereign princes , and to the duty due unto them , to which god and the law of nations obliges us ; all which inconveniences intervene in the prohibition of this oath : . concerning the superiority of a general councill over the pope , contained in the objection ; consider , first , that though the king and parliament be above the king out of parliament ▪ yet we are bound to submit , even against our own interest , to the orders of the king and his councill in civill matters , till the contrary be decreed by parliament ; which at least is enjoyned us by such parliaments as command us to bear due allegeance to his majesty as our sovereign in all civill matters : and that , in like manner , we are bound to submit to the pope's ordinances in ecclesiasticall matters , even against our interests , notwithstanding the superiority of a general councill over the pope , till the contrary be defined by such a councill ; which at least is asserted in such councills , and by such fathers , as recommend unto us due obedience to the pope , as our supreme pastour in spiritualls . for the pope is as supreme in spiritualls out of a councill , as the king is in temporalls out of a parliament ; and consequently requires the like submission to his ordinances . . consider , secondly , that the reasons one may seem to have either against the pope's decrees out of a councill , or the king's ordinances out of a parliament , cannot justify the refusing an exteriour compliance with them ; but onely may give one ground to make his addresses to the councill or parliament when assembled , to have such decrees or ordinances repealed : and that what we require in our present case , is onely , that we should forbear the taking this oath till the lawfulness thereof be declared by a general council , to which we may apply our selves , when convened , to have this matter declared . . concerning the fallibility of the pope , and the infallibility of a general council ; consider , first , that if it be warrantable to refuse an exteriour obedience to the pope's decrees in ecclesiastical matters , because fallible ; upon the same account it will be lawfull to refuse an exteriour obedience to the orders of kings and princes in civill affairs ; for doubtless they are all fallible , and may be mistaken and misinformed : and so farewell all government . secondly , consider , that even those catholicks who affirm the pope to be fallible out of a general council , do notwithstanding confess that an exteriour obedience is due to his commands in ecclesiastical matters : as the like obedience is due to the ordinances of sovereign princes in civil affairs , though fallible . and in this present case no more is required , then a meer exteriour compliance with the pope's prohibition . thirdly , consider , that even protestants also , who confesse their whole church , and not onely the particular pastours thereof separately , to be fallible , do yet affirm , that an exteriour obedience is due to their ordinances . and it seems somewhat odde , that catholicks should deny the pope that obedience under pretence of fallibility , which protestants assert to be due to the pastours of their church though fallible . . lastly , consider , that the difference between a general council and the pope , supposing the infallibility of the one , and the fallibility of the other , is , that the decrees and declarations of the pope do oblige onely to an exteriour obedience , but those of a general council to an interiour assent also . . concerning the capacity of the pope of being misinformed , and the pretended mistakes in this present matter ; consider , first , that between the publishing of the first and the last brief against the oath , there past twenty years : that in this time the present question concerning the lawfulness thereof was canvased on both sides by learned men , both english and forreiners : that withrington ; the chief defender of the oath , and who brings all that is material for it , represented in this interim to paul the fifth his reasons for the lawfulness of it , and his answers to what had been objected against him : that the popes , in the forementioned briefs , use as significant terms to remove all just suspicion of misinformation , mistakes and inconsiderateness , [ as , motu proprio , ex certa nostra scientia , — post longam gravémque deliberationem de omnibus quae in illis continentur adhibitam — haec mera , pura , integráque voluntas nostra est , &c. ] as are used in any briefs or instruments whatsoever , in order to that intent . and if this be so , as certainly it is , then consider , secondly , that if all these diligences and preventions be not thought sufficient to remove all just suspicion of misinformation , mistakes , and inconsiderateness , what brief , or what decree , ecclesiastical or civil , is there that the party therein condemned may not ( under pretence of the like flaws ) reject and disobey ? such liberty as this , to reject the ordinances of our sovereigns , both spirituall and temporall , must needs induce a perfect anarchy . . consider , thirdly , that it belongs to the pope to determine , whether this oath does contain any thing contrary to faith and salvation , or destructive to his sovereignty in spiritualls , or no. for the determination of such questions belongs to the spiritual court , as has been above insinuated ; as it belongs to the king , and the civil court , to determine whether such a thing be contrary to the civil laws , and publick welfare of the kingdome , or destructive to his sovereignty in temporalls , or not . and since the popes , after so much diligence used to be informed of the truth , have severall times declared , that this oath contains many things destructive to faith and salvation , and upon that account have prohibited the taking thereof ; we are bound to afford at least an exteriour compliance to this prohibition . . consider , fourthly , that as to prohibit a book , 't is not necessary to point out the particular propositions for which it is prohibited , as appears by several publick prohibitions of books and pamphlets , issued forth either by civil or ecclesiastical authority ; neither would it be prudence , to design alwaies the particular propositions for which a pamphlet is prohibited , when they are scandalous and offensive : so neither was it necessary , for the prohibition of this oath , that the pope should assign the particular propositions which he looked upon as repugnant to faith and salvation . the prohibition of suarez his book , made by the parliament of paris , as containing things destructive to the honour due to the kings , does not express , at least as it is related by withrington , what those particular things or propositions are , contained in that book , which are destructive to the veneration due to kings : and yet no body upon that account does quibble at such a prohibition . why therefore might not the pope prohibit this oath , as containing things destructive to faith and salvation , without setting down in particular which those things are ? . consider , lastly , whether , whoever takes this oath , does not implicitly deny , either that the pope has any power to excommunicate an heretical king , which power is inherent in the pope as supreme head of the church ; or at least , that though he should excommunicate such a king , the excommunication would have in the person excommunicated these effects , viz. to deprive him of all civill communication with others , &c. which are assigned in scripture , in those places whence the power in the pope to excommunicate is deduced . . joan. . neque ave ei dixeritis . cor. . cum hujusmodi nec cibum sumere . for sure a king who is deprived of all civill communication with others , is deprived of all civill government , in order to the exercise thereof ; which is a certain kind of deposing . and if some persons , though excommunicated , are excepted from these effects , either by the indulgency of the pope , or otherwise , whether it does not belong to the pope to determine which those persons are ; and whether he has excepted princes . . concerning the pope being a party in this debate , and not proceeding according to the canons ; consider , first , that supreme governours , whether spirituall or temporall , in debates wherein their prerogatives are concerned , either are not styled properly parties ; or if they be parties , they are also iudges . otherwise we should not be bound to stand to the decision of a generall councill , in matters relating to the authority of the church or generall councills ; nor to the determination of the king and parliament , in matters relating to the authority and prerogatives of his majesty or his parliament . consider , secondly , that if the pope is not to be hearkened unto , when he prohibits the taking of this oath , because he is the party concerned in the not-taking thereof ; neither the king , upon the same account , is to be hearkened unto , when he commands us to take the oath , because he is the party concerned in the taking thereof . . consider , thirdly , that as * there are canons and rules prescribed for the proceedings of popes ; so there are , in the like manner , rules prescribed for the proceedings of kings , of councills , and of parliaments . but as the king , or councill , or parliament , must be their own judges , whether they have proceeded , in such a decision or determination , according to the respective rules prescribed unto them , and not any particular person or subject : so must the pope be his own judge , and not any particular doctour , whether he hath observed , in the prohibition of this oath , the rules and canons prescribed unto him in such cases . and since the popes have sufficiently declared , that in the prohibition of this oath they have proceeded according to the canons for such cases , it is not reasonable , that under pretence that they have not observed such canons , we should deny an exteriour obedience to their prohibitions . . concerning the disturbance of the church , which the opponent pretends may follow from the submission to the briefs , and the prejudice created thence , or pretended to be created , to the duty and loyalty due to sovereign princes ; consider , first , that if the defenders of the oath would be quiet , we might enjoy the same peace and tranquillity , in relation to this point , which we have enjoyed for many years . for the oppugners of the oath have not printed any thing for a long time , contenting themselves with the sentences which the above-mentioned popes have been pleased to issue forth in their favour : and consequently , the disturbance , if any follow , is rather to be attributed to the defenders of the oath , then to the oppugners . . consider , secondly , that if the pope ( whose office it is to declare the lawfulness or unlawfulness of an action , especially if he be required thereunto , and the inconsistency thereof with faith and salvation ) should forbear to declare such an action unlawfull , for fear of some disturbance , or persecution , by the contrivance of some obstinate and discontented persons : upon the same account the councill of nice should have forborn to have declared against the arrians , the consubstantiality of the son with his father ; and other generall councills , in the like manner , should have waved the definitions of severall other doctrines ; because some malicious men , taking occasion thence , have raised severall disturbances and persecutions . nay , our saviour , and the apostles , should , upon the same score , have forborn the preaching christian religion , since they foresaw , that many calamities , disturbances and persecutions would arise , by the malice and obstinacy of men , upon the account of christian religion . and therefore simeon foretold , that the coming of christ would be the occasion of the ruine of many . ecce hic positus est in ruinam , & resurrectionem multorum in israel , & in signum cui contradicetur . luc. . . . consider , thirdly , that though it be not the intention , neither of popes , nor of generall councills , that their enactive decrees , in some extraordinary and extravagant cases , should oblige , when the compliance with them is very prejudiciall ; or at least they are supposed to have dispensed for such cases ; as appears in the precept of fasting , or such like : yet this cannot reach to their declarative decrees , such as the present decree against the oath is . for it cannot be their intention , neither can they dispense in any case whatsoever , that we may lawfully doe what they have declared , and do declare , to be of it self unlawfull . . consider , fourthly , whether what the popes enjoyn in the above-mentioned briefs , can be prejudiciall to the duty and loyalty due to sovereign princes . for though popes be as jealous of their prerogatives , as kings are of theirs ; yet they do not enjoyn us in these briefs to swear , that the pope has any power or authority to depose kings , or to swear any thing else contrary to any clause contained in this oath : but onely not to take the oath , or not to swear positively , that the pope has no such power ; leaving things in the same condition wherein they were ( in order to any such obligation ) before this oath was framed . for although as long as there is a debate whether such a thing belongs to me , or another , i cannot lawfully take the possession of it ; yet i may lawfully hinder my adversary from taking it . neither do they prohibit us to take other oaths of allegeance , wherein all civill allegeance is contained in as , or more expressive terms , then in the present oath ; as shall be made appear hereafter : nay , nor to take those clauses of the oath , which do manifestly contain no more then meer civill allegeance . neither do they in rigour oblige us to give an interiour assent to the reasons why they prohibit this oath . for even the decrees of generall councills , according to the common sentiment of divines , do not oblige us always to believe the reasons for the framing such decrees , inserted in them , to be good and solid . as in the second councill of nice it was declared , that angels may be painted , because they have bodies . the declaration is good , but the reason is false . so that though one refuses the oath in compliance to the pope's commands , it does not follow , that he does not think the oath in it self , and speculatively speaking , to be lawfull : and consequently , if he thinks that the acts therein contained do concern meer civill allegeance , he is bound , as long as he remains in such a persuasion , to comply with those acts , whether he has taken this oath or not . for a subject is bound to civill allegeance by the law of god and nature , antecedently to all oaths . finally , the popes do not forbid us in these briefs an act of loyalty , or civill allegeance : for the taking of this oath , which is onely forbidden us in these briefs , is not ( properly speaking ) any act of civil allegeance , but onely a security thereof , ( and how little trust is to be put in such a security , does appear by the sad experience of the late wars ; ) as a bond for the payment of such a sum of money is no part of the payment , but onely a security for it , if the debtor denies it . nay , a subject may be obliged to his civill allegeance , and equally punished for his not-complying therewith , or for being a traitour , whether he has taken the oath or not . whence i conclude , that , since the briefs do not forbid us any act of civill allegeance , it is manifest , that the compliance with such briefs cannot be inconsistent with the duty and loyalty due to sovereign princes ; which reaches no farther then to all acts of civill allegeance . . consider , lastly , whether those who reject the forementioned briefs of the popes , published after so long and so serious deliberation , under such frivolous pretences as we have already seen , and shall see hereafter , do not open a way for subjects to resist , and disobey the express commands or prohibitions ( if they be condemned therein ) of their respective sovereigns , though issued forth after never so serious a debate , pretending that they were grounded upon inconsiderateness , misinformation , and mistakes , in thinking , that such a thing was contrary to the laws of the realm , and the prerogatives of his majesty ; or that the king did not proceed therein according to the rules prescribed in such cases ; or that his majesty was a party in the debate , and that consequently he ought not to be judge ; or , finally , that such prohibitions and commands are prejudiciall to the liberty of the people and common welfare of the nation , and that they may be occasion of great disturbances in the kingdome . and whether , if such exceptions as these be warrantable , and not to be decided by the sovereigns themselves , they do not render the authority of kings ( though our adversaries , who make use of them , will needs seem to be stout champions for regall power ) very weak and insignificant , as in effect they do render the authority of the pope . . if it be objected , thirdly , that to refuse this oath , when we are required to take it by the king , is sinfull , inductive to schism , and scandalous to our religion , as if the principles thereof were inconsistent with civill allegeance due to princes ; and in such matters no man is bound to obey the pope's decrees , but rather to the contrary : that should the pope declare it sinfull to bear his majesty civill allegeance , ( which is due unto him by the law of god and nature , ) certainly we should not think our selves bound to submit to such a declaration : that this oath contains onely a meer civill allegeance , as our kings have declared , and to them it belongs to declare what is meer civill allegeance , and not to the pope , whose jurisdiction extends onely to spiritualls : that we are bound to obey our sovereign's commands in all probable matters , and which are not manifestly sinfull , as the taking of this oath is not : that since it is doubtfull at least whether the things contained in this oath ( wherein the difficulty thereof consists ) appertain to the spirituall or civill court , why should the pope decide it rather then the king ? and since the king commands us to take the oath , and the pope prohibits us to take it , the thing being of it self doubtfull , and not manifestly sinfull on either side , why should we submit rather to the pope's ordinance then to the king's ? that the king may confine the pope's power , and declare , that he has not a direct and absolute power over this kingdome in temporalls , or to vacate the civill laws thereof at his pleasure ; and consequently , that it is not proper for the pope to declare how far his spirituall authority does extend it self in all causes : finally , that the like argument may be made to shew the refusall of this oath to be unlawfull , as we made above to prove unlawfull the taking thereof , in this manner ; whoever of his majestie 's subjects refuses this oath , being required thereunto , denies an exteriour obedience to the king's ordinance in matters appertaining unto him , and no farther then they appertain unto him : but it is unlawfull to deny such an obedience to the king's ordinance , and in such matters : therefore it is unlawfull for any of his majestie 's subjects , when required thereunto , to refuse this oath : . concerning the sinfulness of the refusall of this oath , objected against us ; consider , first , whether this objection be not against all or most of those catholicks who defend the lawfulness of this oath ; whose aim onely is , to shew , not that it is a sin to refuse this oath , but that it is no sin to take it . secondly , consider , whether the refusall of this oath can be sinfull , unless the taking thereof be absolutely obligatory : and if not , then consider , whether there be any absolute obligation to take this oath , since the taking thereof is no part of civill allegeance , as has been already shewn . neither does his majesty absolutely require of us the taking of this oath , but onely conditionally , if we will enjoy such and such employments or priviledges ; which we are not bound to accept of . and though those who refuse the oath in many circumstances are liable to some penalties enacted against roman catholicks ; yet they are punished even in that case , not so much for refusing the oath , but because , by refusing it , they are suspected to be popishly inclined . whence therefore can there be proved any absolute obligation to take this oath , especially since the pope hath expresly prohibited the taking thereof ? . consider , thirdly , whether , according to the common persuasion of divines , we are not bound to obey the commands of our lawfull superiour in probable matters appertaining unto him , and which are not manifestly sinfull : and whether it can prudently be presumed , that the meer forbearance of this oath , ( the thing that is onely required of us , ) which has been enjoyned three severall times , in terms so significant , by two different popes , who are the onely competent judges of what is sinfull , and what not ; which has been , and is still maintained by so many grave , learned and consciencious men , against their own interest ; which hath been authorized with the imprisonment , or death , of several persons , [ fifty eight were put in prison at york , in the time of arch-bishop matthews , for refusing this oath , and forty of them died in prison , ] who rather chose to undergoe those punishments then take this oath ; is notwithstanding manifestly sinfull . . concerning the schism objected against us ; consider , first , that it is impossible , that those who refuse the oath should upon that account , and for complying therein with the ordinances of the supreme head in ecclesiasticall matters , become schismaticks ; as it is impossible that a subject , for complying with the commands of his king , should become a traitour or rebell . for as rebellion implies a disobedience to our sovereign in temporall affairs ; so schism necessarily imports a separation from or a disobedience to the pope , supreme head in ecclesiasticall matters . hence it follows , that should all the english catholicks joyn in taking the oath , they would not therefore be less schismaticks , but rather more in number ; as the more the rebells are , they are not therefore less rebells . . consider , secondly , that since union amongst catholicks here in england , in order to this point , may be obtained in either of two manners , viz. if all take the oath , or if all refuse it ; it is far more easy to obtain it , and far more warrantable to procure it , the latter way , then the former : because those who refuse it are far more numerous then those who take it ; and it is far more easie , and more warrantable , that the minor part should conform to the major , then on the contrary ; especially whenas by refusing it we unite with our head , and supreme pastour , and by taking it we separate from him . and there can be no true ecclesiasticall union , without a conjunction with the ecclesiasticall head. and sure it is more rationall , that the members should submit to the head , then the head to the members . . consider , thirdly , that hitherto the far greater part of english catholicks have thought it better to conserve an union among themselves , in relation to this point , by refusing the oath , then by taking it . and certainly , if ever there was any reason for catholicks to take this oath , there was more reason for it heretofore , when it was first enacted , then now . for a little before had been contrived that horrible plot of gunpowder-treason , whereunto concurred some catholicks ; but it was fathered , though unjustly , upon the whole body of catholicks then living . but now there is no catholick alive that could be actour or contriver in that plot , or that is suspected to have contrived any plot whatsoever against his majesty , much less such a detestable plot as that was : and consequently , the present catholicks of england have far less obligation ( or rather no obligation at all ) to wipe off any suspicion of disloyalty by taking the oath , then the ancient catholicks had . those catholicks who then lived , had not given so universall and so signall proofs of their loyalty to the then present king , as catholicks now alive have done to his majesty and his royall father : and by consequence , there is less reason why they should be forced to give in security , or testimony of their loyalty by oath . then there had not been issued forth so many several briefs , and after so long a deliberation , condemning this oath , as since have been published , nor the question so much discussed ( the major part sticking alwaies to the negative ) as since it has been : which had those catholicks seen who first took the oath , very probably speaking , many of them would have refused it . some of those thirteen priests who in the time of q. elizabeth subscribed an oath of the like tenour , having seen afterwards the pope's briefs , refused this oath ; and two of them , viz. robert drury and roger cadwallader , were put to death upon that account . . neither are there now greater advantages for catholicks who take the oath then there were in those times ; nay , the conveniency now in taking it is so inconsiderable , that no catholick is thereby alone rendered capable so much as to enter into white-hall or st. iames's park . and though the catholick lords , who take the oath , may sit in the house , and those who refuse it may not : yet how long will this ( besides that it comprehended also those ancient catholick lords , ) probably last ; seeing that scarce had some catholick lords , upon that account , taken the oath , when it begun to be agitated in the parliament , how another test might be framed to exclude all catholicks ? and the sitting of the catholick lords in the house , as things now stand , is ineffectual to carry any thing in favour of catholicks ; the far major part being against them , nay and against their sitting too in the house . for had the major part effectually desired the concurrence of the catholick lords , it would never have been carried , that all the lords should be put to the oath , if they intended to sit in the house . for such a vote would in all probability force all the catholick lords ( or at least some of them ) to forbear coming to the house . so that , were not the house against the sitting of the catholick lords , they would never have voted , that all those who would sit should take the oath . and if they be against their sitting , though all the catholick lords should take it , they will find out some other way to exclude them . moreover , if things be well sifted , perhaps many will find no little conveniency in having so handsome an occasion as this is for any catholick for not coming to the house , especially since they are not therefore debarred from voting by their proxies . wherefore if , notwithstanding the reasons above alledged , the ancient catholicks of england , or at least the far greater part of them , as even our adversaries confess , preferred to conserve union amongst themselves by refusing the oath ; why should not the present english catholicks follow , in this point , their ancestors , and take the same way of conserving union ? . concerning the scandal objected ; consider , first , whether the scandal ( if any lies upon catholicks or their religion in order to civil allegeance , after so many signall proofs given of their loyalty in the late civil wars , ( and , sure , works are better proofs of loyalty then words , ) after so many publick declarations thereof made by his majesty in his gracious speeches , and by many other protestants in their publick votes in parliament , whether , i say , this scandal , if any remains , ) be not rather acceptum , then datum , like to that which christian religion lay under among the iews for transgressing their ceremonies , and consequently not to be taken notice of . . consider , secondly , whether should all catholicks concurre to take the oath , protestants would not , in all probability , attribute this their concurrence rather to a desire of their safety , or of some particular interest , then to the principles of their religion ; as they have , and do yet , attribute the constant and general loyalty of the catholicks in the late wars , not to the tenets of their religion , but to the generosity of their minds , or desire of their security , as they have published in their books and sermons . nay , some ( as i hear ) have said the same already of catholicks that have taken the oath . so that the taking of the oath is ineffectual for the end pretended ; since protestants would not therefore have a better opinion of our religion , but worse opinion of catholicks who take the oath , as professing a religion to whose principles , as by protestants understood , they are ashamed to conform . and if so , then consider , whether ( probably speaking ) protestants are not more scandalized at catholicks who take the oath , as not standing ( in their opinion ) to the maximes of the religion they profess , and as denying an exteriour compliance with the express commands of him whom they acknowledge to be their supreme pastour ; ( which compliance even protestants grant to be due to the pastours of the church ; ) then at catholicks who refuse it : which refusal protestants ascribe not to any want of loyalty in them , ( whereof they have sufficient proofs already , ) but to some scruple of conscience , or to the submission they think themselves obliged to pay to the ordinances of the pope . and one may easily gather , by what is set down in a letter to a parliament-man , lately printed , concerning peter walsh , ( who , amongst those who profess themselves to be catholicks , seems now to be the onely man , who openly and in print vindicates the taking this oath : one may gather , i say , by what is couched in that letter , ) what opinion protestants have of such catholicks ; who , though they acknowledge the pope to be their supreme pastour , yet justify the taking this oath , against several express prohibitions of the pope . so that , by taking the oath , the scandal , if any , is not removed from our religion , but rather a new scandal is fastened upon catholicks that take it . . consider , thirdly , whether protestants are not of opinion , that the supremacy in spiritualls is inherent and annexed to the crown , as has been declared in parliament ; and consequently , that as long as catholicks refuse the oath of supremacy , ( which they must doe as long as they will be catholicks , ) they refuse to acknowledge the supremacy of his majesty in temporalls , and his crown . for whosoever refuses to acknowledge any thing inherent and annexed to the crown , refuses , at least implicitly , to acknowledge the crown , and his loyalty thereunto . so that , as long as we remain catholicks , we shall be accounted by protestants not loyal subjects in our tenets , whatsoever we be in our practices . . consider , fourthly , whether such catholicks as take the oath , whilst ineffectually they pretend to remove the scandal protestants have so unjustly conceived of our religion , by taking the oath , do not create a just scandal in other catholicks who refuse it , seeing how they slight the expresse order of their supreme head in ecclesiastical matters . . concerning the case contained in the objection , wherein the opponent supposes that the pope should forbid us to bear civil allegeance to his majesty , due unto him by the law of god and of nature , or should declare such an allegeance to be sinfull ; consider , first , that supposing ( as we do suppose ) that his majesty is our sovereign in all civil and temporal concerns , and that not onely in order to the civil power , but also to the exercise thereof ; to deny unto him civil allegeance , due unto him by the law of god and nature , is manifestly sinfull : and in matters manifestly sinfull we are not bound to obey the ordinances of our superiours , whether spiritual or temporal . nay , it would be heretical to prohibit a meer civil allegeance , in that supposition , or declare it unlawfull : and a pope that should teach an heresy , or become an heretick , would , according to the common consent of divines , cease to be pope ; and consequently , his orders in that case were not to be obeyed . . consider , secondly , whether it be reasonable , that , because there may be feigned a case or cases wherein the pope , or any other superiour , ecclesiastical or civil , might command a thing manifestly sinfull , and therefore not to be done ; we should , upon that account , deny obedience to the commands of the pope , or any other lawfull superiour , in matters evidently , or at least probably , lawfull : and the forbearance of this oath ( which is onely enjoyned us in the forementioned briefs , as has been shewn ) is manifestly or probably lawfull , as our adversaries seem to confess . . consider , thirdly , that the popes have been so far from forbidding catholicks to render civil obedience to his majesty , his royal father and grandfather , kings of england , that rather they have several times , and in terms very significant , charged the english catholicks to render to their majesties all civil allegeance and obedience . neither have the popes declared any of their majesties deprived of their crown . nay , never any pope ( as some have well advertised ) has declared any heretical prince , brought up alwaies in that profession , ( as the three forementioned kings were brought up protestants , ) deprived of their dominions . neither do the popes , in the above-mentioned briefs , whereby they prohibit the taking of this oath , declare in expresse terms , that they have any authority to depose hereticall princes ▪ and much less do they oblige us to swear , or to make any acknowledgement , that they have any such authority : but onely they enjoyn us a meer forbearance of the oath , the taking whereof is not properly ( as has been shewed above ) any act of civil allegeance , or at least of bare civil allegeance . . concerning the meer civil allegeance pretended to be contained in this oath , and that alone ; consider , first , whether whatsoever a prince is pleased to put into an oath , which he terms an oath of allegeance , is to be held as appertaining to meer civil allegeance ; and whether the refusers thereof are to be lookt upon as refusers of civil allegeance . as for instance , if an oath , intitled an oath of meer civil allegeance , were framed , wherein were expresly denied a power in the pope to excommunicate any of his majestie 's subjects in any case whatsoever , or to direct them in spiritual affairs ; sure no catholick would say , that such an oath did contain meer civil allegeance , though the prince , by whose order it was framed , should term it an oath of civil allegeance , or that the refusers thereof were guilty of disloyalty . . consider , secondly , whether , since it is manifest that an oath , though styled an oath of meer civil allegeance , may contain some things not appertaining to civil allegeance , but to spiritual jurisdiction , as the forementioned oath , denying a power in the pope to excommunicate ; whether then ( i say ) the pope , to whom the supreme spirituall jurisdiction belongs , and not the king , whose jurisdiction is onely civil , may not judge of such an oath , so far as it contains things appertaining to spiritual and ecclesiastical jurisdiction . and if so , whether , since this present oath contains such things , as has been declared above , the pope may not judge of this oath , as far as it contains such things , though it be pretended by some that it contains meer civil allegeance : and whether we are not bound to stand rather to the pope's judgment , in order to such things , then to the king's declaration . . consider , thirdly , that there is this difference between the king commanding us to take this oath , ( supposing he does command it , ) and the pope prohibiting us to take it ; that to the end the king may command us to take it , 't is necessary , that there be nothing therein contained which does not belong to the civil power , since we acknowledge his majesty to be our sovereign onely in civil matters : but to the end the pope may prohibit us to take this oath , 't is enough , that any thing whatsoever therein contained belongs to the ecclesiastical court , whose head the pope is , and that he judges such things to be unlawfull . so that far less is required , or sufficient , to prohibit an oath , then to command it . neither does the pope prohibit each part of the oath by it self , and separately taken ; but he prohibits us to take the whole oath : and to prohibit the whole , 't is enough , that any part thereof whatsoever be unlawfull , according to that maxime , bonum ex integra causa , malum ex quocunque defectu . . consider , fourthly , that we are bound to submit to the king's commands onely in civil matters , as to the pope's ordinances onely in spiritual ; since , as we acknowledge the pope's supremacy onely in spirituals , so we acknowledge the king's supremacy onely in temporals . and since this oath contains , as has been proved , some things not appertaining to the civil jurisdiction , we do not think our selves obliged to submit to his majestie 's orders , wherein he commands us to take this oath as it lies : as upon the same account we are not bound to take the oath of supremacy , though his majesty commands his subjects as much to take the one as the other , and penalties are enacted against the refusers of both . nay , if the thing commanded by the pope be a civil matter , though it should be lawfull , we are not bound to submit to such a command , since the pope's jurisdiction extends onely to spirituals : so if the thing commanded by the king be spiritual , though it should be lawfull , we are not bound to submit to such a command , because the king's jurisdiction extends onely to temporals . whence appears , that the major proposition of the argument , framed in the objection , to prove the refusal of the oath unlawfull , is false and of no force . for since this oath contains things not appertaining to civil jurisdiction , the king , by commanding us to take this whole oath as it lies , commands us things not appertaining unto him : but the pope , by prohibiting us to take this oath , by reason of things appertaining unto him contained therein , and not farther then they appertain unto him , does not exceed his jurisdiction ; and it is unlawfull to deny obedience to the commands of a superiour in matters appertaining unto him , and no farther then they do appertain unto him . . consider , fifthly , that though we should grant , as we do not , that it is doubtfull , whether the matters contained in this oath , ( wherein the main difficulty thereof consists , ) considered in themselves , do appertain to the ecclesiastical or civil court : yet since the pope's and the king's orders in this point do contradict one another , we ought rather to submit to the pope's prohibition , then the king's command , in this case . first , because , though the pope and the king be both supreme , the one in spirituals , the other in temporals ; yet the pope's supremacy ( the end whereof is eternal bliss ) is of a higher hierarchy then the king's supremacy , ( the end whereof is temporal felicity onely . ) and certainly , when two supreme governours clash one with the other , so that we cannot obey them both , but must obey one of them , ( as in our present case , we must obey either the pope , forbidding the oath , or the king , commanding it ; ) we are bound , caeteris paribus , to submit rather to him , whose jurisdiction is of a higher hierarchy , then to the other , and to our spiritual governour , then to our temporal . neither will the protestants deny this doctrine to be true , when it happens that the spiritual and temporal powers do thwart one another , all other circumstances being equal . secondly , because , according to the common sentiment of divines and canonists , when it is doubtfull , whether such a matter , considered in it self , does appertain to the spiritual or temporal court , it belongs to the spiritual judge to decide to which of these two courts it does appertain : for , other circumstances being equall , the spiritual judge is to be preferred before the temporal : neither is there any other commodious way to decide the question . thirdly , because the pope requires less of us then the king. for the pope onely requires , that we should not take this oath ; not , that we should swear any thing contrary to it : but the king requires , that we should positively take this oath as it lies ; which is far more . and when two precepts contradict one another , we ought to submit to that precept of the two , caeteris paribus , wherein least is required of us . fourthly , because the pope's precept in this matter is negative , but the king's precept is affirmative : and when two precepts oppose one another , we ought rather , all other circumstances being equall , to embrace the negative precept then the affirmative , according to the common opinion of divines . . consider , sixthly , that the pope does not expresly condemn , as the opponent seems to suppose , any of the points under debate , contained in this oath ; neither does he require of us , that we should swear , that he has any power to depose kings ; but onely , that we should not swear , that he has not any such power : which is what the king requires of us . so that the king , and not the pope , decides the point under debate in his own favour , requiring us to swear positively the part favourable unto him. since therefore withrington and his other catholicks , who defend the oath , do confess , that this question , whether the pope has any authority to depose kings , is yet under debate between popes and kings , certant scholastici , & adhuc sub judice lis est , as they alledge out of trithemius and others ; why should the king decide the question in his own favour , requiring his subjects to swear positively ; that the pope has no such authority ; which is , as it were , to take possession of the part favourable unto him ? or why may not the pope inhibit such an oath , in case the king enjoyns it , as long as the question is in debate between the pope and king , as our adversaries confess it is yet ? adhuc sub judice lis est . for as long as it is under debate to whom such a thing belongs , either of the parties has right to hinder his adversary from taking possession thereof , though he himself cannot take possession of it , till the question be lawfully decided in his favour : and it is much less to hinder another from taking possession of a thing , then to take possession of it himself . . consider , seventhly , that whoever acknowledges the king to be our sovereign in temporall and civill matters , as we do , he must confess that neither the pope , nor any one else , has any direct and absolute power over this kingdome ; such a power in any other being inconsistent with the sovereignty of the king in temporalls : as in the like manner , whoever acknowledges the pope's supremacy in spiritualls , as we also do acknowledge , he must necessarily , upon the like ground , deny any other to be invested with the same superiority . so that , should the pope declare himself sovereign in temporalls over this kingdome , or any other his majestie 's dominions , with a direct and absolute power , he would in that case declare a thing manifestly destructive to the king's sovereignty in temporalls , which we acknowledge . neither does it belong to the pope , or the spirituall court , to declare who is the temporall sovereign of such a kingdome ; but to the representative of that kingdome , or to some other civill power , according to the different constitutions of civill government . so that to declare the pope temporall sovereign of such a kingdome , is not to declare how far his spirituall jurisdiction , as such , extends it self , ( which does belong to the spirituall court ; ) but rather it is to declare him sovereign or supreme governour in a different kind : which declaration does not belong unto him . neither , because a lawfull superiour may , perhaps , exceed his power in some matters , does it therefore follow , that in no other thing he is to be obeyed . what therefore we affirm in this point is , that as it belongs to a sovereign temporall prince , to determine what is precisely necessary for the conservation of his temporall sovereignty , in case he be unjustly attacqued by another in his temporalls : so it appertains to the sovereign spirituall prince , ( who is the pope , ) to determine what is necessary to be done for the conservation of his spirituall sovereignty , in case he be unjustly attacqued in spiritualls . . consider , eighthly , to the end that it may clearly appear how willing the english catholicks are to give his majesty any just security of their loyalty , that they are ready , if it be necessary , not onely to take all the clauses of this oath , wherein meer civill allegeance due to his majesty is contained , but other oaths also , rather more expressive of civill allegeance then this is ; viz. such as were taken by the subjects of the ancient kings of england , or which are taken now by the catholick subjects of other christian princes , whether catholicks or protestants , or of any other profession . and certainly it would be very ridiculous to affirm , that there is no standing oath , in any other christian country , sufficiently expressive of civill allegeance . and to descend to particulars ; they are ready to swear , without any mentall reservation , that they acknowledge their sovereign lord king charles the second to be lawfull king of this realm , and of all other his majestie 's kingdomes : that they renounce all power whatsoever , ecclesiasticall or civill , domestick or forrein , repugnant to the same : that they confess themselves obliged in conscience , to be as obedient to his majesty in all civill affairs , as true allegeance can oblige any subject to be to his prince : that they promise to bear inviolably , during life , true allegeance to his majesty , his lawfull heirs and successours , and him and them will defend against all attempts whatsoever , which shall be made against his or their rights , the rights of their persons , crown or dignity , by any person whatsoever , or under whatsoever pretence : that they will doe their best endeavour to discover to his majesty , his heirs and successours , or to some of their ministers , all treacherous conspiracies , which they shall know or hear of to be against him or them : that they do declare that doctrine to be impious , seditious and abominable , which maintains , that any private subject may lawfully kill or murther the anointed of god , his prince . now let any one judge , protestant or catholick , whether these forementioned clauses are not more , or at least as expressive of civill allegeance , as the ordinary oath is : and if so , then let them consider , whether , since catholicks are ready to take any of the oaths above mentioned , they can rationally be suspected to refuse the ordinary oath of allegeance for want of loyalty . for did they refuse it upon that account , they would not offer to take the abovesaid oaths , wherein as much or more civill allegeance is contained then in the ordinary oath . and whether also ( probably speaking ) we may not vehemently suspect , that protestants , who will not be content that catholicks should take any of the aforesaid oaths , ( wherein all civill allegeance due to princes is manifestly contained , ) but will needs have them take the ordinary oath , do require of them somewhat more then meer civill allegeance : otherwise , why should not they be content with any of the forementioned oaths ? wherefore it would not be amiss , that when the oath is tendred to any catholick who is resolved to refuse it , he should make a protestation of his fidelity , by offering to take any of the forementioned oaths . which will at least serve to disabuse protestants , that he does not refuse to take the ordinary oath for want of civill allegeance . . consider , lastly , that doubtless there may be framed an oath of allegeance , with such glances upon the tenets of protestants , ( the same is of any other religion , ) that no protestant , who will stick to the tenets of his religion , can take : though it would seem very irrationall , to deduce thence , that protestants deny civill allegeance to his majestie , if they be ready to take another oath , wherein all civill allegeance is clearly contained . and if so , why may not we refuse this oath , by reason of some doubtfull or false expressions it contains , or of some glances it has at our religion , without therefore deserving to be impeached of disloyalty ; since we are ready to take other oaths , wherein as much or more civill allegeance is contained ? . if they object , fourthly , for the lawfulness of this oath , the authority of the kingdome of france , of the university and parliament of paris , and of other universities and parliaments of that kingdome , who constantly deny the pope to have any authority or power , direct or indirect , to depose kings ; and finally , of the french iesuits , who subscribed the censure and condemnation of some books wherein that power was defended ; and why may not the catholicks of england have the same liberty as the catholicks of france have ? . concerning the authority of france , for this oath , objected against us ; consider , first , that though in an assembly * held in france of the three estates , ecclesiasticks , nobility , and commons , in time of cardinall peron , there was drawn up ‖ an oath by the third estate , or commons , wherein is affirmed , † that there is no power on earth , either spirituall or temporall , that hath any right over his majestie 's kingdome , to depose the sacred persons of our kings , nor to dispense with or absolve their subjects from their loyalty and obedience which they owe to them ; for any cause or pretence whatsoever : yet the two chief parts of the assembly , viz. the * spirituall and temporall lords , were so much against this article of the oath , that they were resolved , especially the spirituall lords , to die rather then take it ; and the third estate , or commons , who had drawn it up , after they had heard peron's oration against it , laid it aside , which is as much as handsomely to recall it . and how can we reasonably say that the kingdome of france is for an oath , which the two principall parts of the assembly , representative of that kingdome , were so eager against , and which the third part , after serious consideration , laid aside ? . consider , secondly , that rather we may alledge the kingdome of france for the negative , or against the oath , according to what happened in the assembly . for it is a certain kind of argument against a thing , when , having been proposed and debated in an assembly , it was not carried , but rather rejected . neither has there been since enacted by any other assembly of france any oath of this kind , to be tendred unto all , ( neither do our adversaries pretend , that any such thing has been done , ) as our oath of allegeance was enacted for all sorts of people , by our parliament , which corresponds to the assembly in france . neither is there in france any other oath , wherein is expresly denied the forementioned power , established by the king or any parliament , or any other ways , for to be taken by all such who swear allegeance to his most christian majesty . and the english catholicks are ready to take the oath of allegeance to his majesty which is generally tendred in france . and why may not his majesty be content with the same kind of civil allegeance from his subjects , which the french king and other sovereigns require from their subjects ? all which shews , that france cannot reasonably be brought as a precedent in the cause we treat of . . consider , thirdly , that since the representative of france has so much favoured the negative , though we should grant , ( and whether it must be granted or not , we shall see by and by , ) that some other particular tribunall or society of that kingdome have favoured the contrary ; yet because the assembly or representative of france is far above those particular societies , we ought to conclude , that france rather countenances the negative , then the affirmative . should we see that our parliament did countenance so much the negative of an opinion , as the forementioned assembly of france did countenance the refusall of that oath ; though some particular court at westminster , or the university of oxford , should countenance the contrary ; we ought to say that england rather stood for the negative , then the affirmative . . concerning the authority of the parliament and vniversity of paris in this point ; consider , first , that neither that parliament , nor any other parliament of france , neither that university , nor any other university of that kingdome , have ever yet made any publick and authentick act wherein they approve our present oath of allegeance as it lies , and all its clauses wherein the difficulty thereof consists ; neither do our adversaries pretend any such thing : but onely that the parliament and university of paris , with some other parliaments and universities of france , have made decrees , wherein they deny the pope to have any power whatsoever to depose kings , or to absolve their subjects from the allegeance due unto them , for any cause or under any pretence whatsoever . yet hence does not follow , that the parliaments or universities of that kingdome do approve this oath . for to approve an oath , 't is necessary to approve all and every part thereof : and who onely approves one part , does not therefore approve the whole . so that whosoever argues hence , to shew the lawfulness of this oath , his argument must run thus : the university and parliament of paris approve some clauses of this oath , whereat severall persons do scruple : therefore they approve the whole oath . which argument is inconclusive , as is manifest . . consider , secondly , that though the authority of the parliament and university of paris may work so far with some , as to perswade them that this oath ought not to be refused upon the account of any just scruple concerning the power in the pope to depose kings , or absolve their subjects from the allegeance due unto them ; yet it does not therefore follow , that the same authority ( which does not concern it self at least in any publick decrees about other difficulties of the oath ) should perswade them not to refuse at all this present oath , since there are severall other respects , not taken notice of by the parliament or university of paris , in their publick decrees alledged by our adversaries , for which many refuse it . some , though satisfied that the pope has no power to depose kings , yet they have a great difficulty about the word hereticall : for it seems hard unto them , to censure the doctrine which maintains , that princes excommunicate or deprived by the pope , may be deposed by their subjects , for an heresie , or for as bad as an heresie ; and the defenders thereof for hereticks , either materiall or formall , as invincible ignorance does or does not excuse them , or at least for as bad as such ; and to swear that they detest them in the like manner , either for such , or as bad as such . . others think , they cannot swear with truth , that neither the pope , nor any other whatsoever , can absolve them from this oath , or any part thereof , in any case imaginable ; since the king himself may absolve his subjects from such an oath , either all of them , by laying down the government with consent of the kingdome , as charles the fifth did ; ( and it is hard to oblige one to swear , that a king of england in no case possible can doe the like ; ) or at least some of them , by passing a town under his jurisdiction to another king , as his majesty passed dunkirk to the french king , and consequently absolved from the oath of allegeance the inhabitants who had taken it . moreover , they do not see how they can swear , that it is impossible , that , in any case whatsoever , a king of england may be justly conquered . for if he be justly conquered , then he is justly deposed ; and if justly deposed , then his subjects are absolved from their oath of allegeance : for no body is bound to pay allegeance to one who is no longer his king or sovereign . . others cannot swallow that term [ heartily ] inserted in the oath , nor swear , that all they must swear , if they take the oath , they swear heartily , according to the plain and common sense of the words by them spoken . for to swear heartily is more then to swear onely with a meer power not to swear . a merchant , who throws out his goods into the sea onely to save himself and his ship , cannot be said to doe it heartily ; which signifies , to doe a thing without a reluctancy of mind ; but rather with an inclination and propension of mind thereunto . and how ( say they ) can we swear , that we take this oath heartily , and without any reluctancy of mind , but rather with a great inclination thereunto , when we are forced to take it to conserve our privileges or employments , or not to undergo severe penalties enacted against those who refuse it ? and when we see that so many great difficulties have been started against this oath , and pursued with so much vigour ; that so many learned and consciencious men are against it ; and that the supreme pastour of the church has so often and so severely prohibited it ? all which ( say they ) cannot but create , in any tender conscience , some regret and reluctancy of mind to take the oath . . others are deterred by the title of the act wherein this oath is inserted , an act for the discovering and suppressing of popish recusants : whereby it seems to be insinuated , that the taking this oath is made a denial of the roman catholick religion , or of popery . for though other things are contained in the act , which do contribute to the discovery of popish recusants ; yet this oath is inserted among the rest , and compleats the discovery of them . and it is not lawfull to doe any thing which is made by publick authority a denial of the true religion , or a distinctive sign of a false religion . . others , though they are satisfied concerning the substance of the oath , yet are gravelled at some ambiguous expressions . the authour of the reflexions upon this oath , though he be very fierce against the pope's power to depose kings , yet he seems dissatisfied with the oath , by reason of several ambiguous expressions therein contained ; as appears by what he says pag. , . and an oath must not be ambiguous . nay , the authour of the questions concerning the oath , though so eager for the lawfulness thereof , does notwithstanding confess , ( pag. . ) that it is drest up unhappily with some odde expressions , at the first sight ; and therefore he heartily wishes that another form of oath were framed , which might not trouble with scruples the less-instructed conscience of any . . others , though they believe that what-ever is contained in the oath is true , and are ready to swear that they believe it , yet they cannot be brought to swear positively , that what-ever is asserted in the oath is true : which is very different . others , finally , though they be satisfied concerning the substance of the oath , and the expressions too , yet see no necessity of swearing , or any good they get by taking the oath : and an oath , amongst other conditions , must be necessary . all such persons as these , though they be fully satisfied , either from the pretended authority of france , or otherwise , that the pope has no power to depose kings ; yet those decrees of france , which our adversaries produce , do not clear , nor so much as touch , the forementioned difficulties ; and consequently are not alone able to induce the aforesaid persons to take the oath , or to justify the taking thereof . whence it follows , that because one refuses the oath , it cannot in rigour be inferred , that he denies such a determinate clause thereof , let them take which they please ; since some dislike one thing , and some another : nay , nor that he does not assent to the whole substance of the oath , and to its expressions also . and much less can it be thence inferred , that such an one who refuses the oath does deny civil allegeance to his majesty . . consider , thirdly , that the decree of the parliament of paris published the . of iune . quoted by withrington in the place above mentioned , whereby was prohibited suarez his book , intitled defensio fidei catholicae , &c. is to be understood onely , as appears by the chapters cited in the decree , and by the tenour thereof , in order to the prohibition of that doctrine , which maintains the temporal authority of the pope over kings : but it does not concern it self at all with other difficulties , which suarez and other authours raise about the oath : which notwithstanding must be cleared , before we can take it . . consider , fourthly , that it is one thing to prohibit the teaching or preaching that the pope has any power to depose kings , or to command one to teach and preach the contrary ; which is all our adversaries can prove from the forementioned decrees , or any other , of the parliaments and universities of france ; and another thing to command one to swear positively , that the pope has no such power , and to abjure the affirmative as heretical , which the king commands us to doe when he commands us to take this oath . so that the argument our adversaries draw from such decrees of france is this ; the parliament or university of paris prohibits any one to teach , that the pope has authority to depose kings , or commands some to teach the contrary : therefore the king may command us to swear positively , that the pope has no such authority , or to abjure the contrary as heretical . which consequence is null , as is manifest . for what university is there , wherein the members thereof are not prohibited to teach certain opinions , or are not commanded to teach the contrary ; many of which opinions are meer scholastical and philosophical questions , either part being probable ? but yet they are not therefore commanded to swear positively , that such opinions are true , neither can they in conscience many times swear it : for one may teach such an opinion to be true , though he cannot swear it to be so ; more being requisite to swear a thing to be true , then to teach that it is so . . consider , fifthly , that what was resolved by the parliament of paris , in that decree concerning the iesuits , was , that the rectour , with some others of the principal fathers , should be summoned to appear in the court at such a day : that they should be told , that , contrary to the expresse order of their own general , issued forth in the year . this book of suarez had been printed , and brought into that kingdome : that they should procure the same prohibition to be renewed by their general ; and that they should exhibit an authentical copy thereof within three months : finally , that they should exhort the people , in their sermons , to embrace the contrary doctrine to the propositions they had prohibited . but from all this it cannot be inferred , that the french iesuits did , or would have sworn positively , that the pope has no power , in no case whatsoever , to depose princes ; nor that they did exhort the people to swear any such thing ; nor that they were commanded by the parliament so to doe . one may exhort another to embrace an opinion , which notwithstanding he will not nor cannot positively swear to be true , nor exhort the other to swear it is so . and yet whoever exhorts any one to take the oath , he must exhort him to swear positively , that the forementioned opinion , viz. that the pope has no power to depose kings , is true . much less can it be inferred from the aforesaid decree , that the french iesuits did approve , or were commanded to approve , of all the other clauses contained in the present oath . and consequently , their authority cannot be alledged for the lawfulness thereof . for though the clauses relating to the pope's power to depose princes may seem to some to contain the main difficulty ; yet this to others seems no difficulty at all : and there are several other difficulties involved in the oath , as has been shewn . and to the end we may lawfully take an oath , 't is necessary to be satisfied concerning all , and every difficulty and clause thereof . for to swear any thing either false , or doubtfull , though never so little in it self , is a grievous sin. . concerning the authority of the vniversity of paris in particular , for the lawfulness of the oath ; besides what already has been said in general , consider , first , that though we should grant , ( as we do not , ) that the universitie of paris , and other universities of france , are for the oath : yet even our adversaries confess , that the universities of spain are against it , where , beyond debate , there are many learned and consciencious men , and as zealous for the honour and safety of their kings as any in france ; and they have as many prerogatives relating to the security of their sovereigns against the usurpations of any ecclesiastical prince , as in any countrey whatsoever . so that , admitting that on both sides there are grave authours , yet the negative , in the present debate , has the advantage of the affirmative , that the pope , who is the competent judge in these affairs , ( as above has been proved , ) and to whom both parties made their address , has given his express sentence for the negative ; and among other things which render an opinion , before probable , practically or in practice improbable , one is , an authentick declaration or sentence of a competent , especially supreme , judge to the contrary . . suppose that in a plea before the king and his councill , there are many brave lawyers on both sides , who produce several pregnant arguments , and excellent precedents , in favour of their respective clients , which render the cause doubtfull ; yet that party must needs carry it , for whom the king and his council gave their definitive sentence : neither is it longer lawfull for the party condemned to stand out , because many learned lawyers are on his side , or to retrive the former arguments produced for his right ; which signifies no more then to plead after the suit is lost . neither would the party who had gained the cause concern himself any farther with what the lawyers of the contrary side object against him . the same happens in our present case . there are many grave and learned authours against the oath : suppose there are also many for it : yet since the impugners of the oath have obtained several express sentences of the supreme judge in their favour , they do not think themselves obliged to take any farther notice of what the defenders of the oath produce against them , which cannot excuse them from an exteriour compliance with the judge's express sentence , as long as it is authentick . and this is the reason , why the impugners of the oath have not in a long time printed any thing against it . for what more can they pretend by their writings , but that the oath be condemned by the pope ? which has been already done . but the defenders of the oath continue still to write , after they have lost the cause ; according to the common saying , losers must have leave to talk , or at least they will take it . . consider , secondly , that among other oaths , which those who desire to be incorporated in the university of paris are to take , one for the degree of bachelour is , that they will hold the articles of the faculty of paris to be true ; and that , when occasion offers , they will defend them to be agreeable to faith and religion : which is a promissory oath ; the truth whereof onely requires , that he who swears has a sincere intention to doe what he promises : and ( as we have already seen ) one may promise , even under an oath , that he will defend such an opinion to be true , when occasion offers , though he does not , nor cannot lawfully , many times , swear positively that it is true . for these two oaths are very different , before god , i judge that the pope has no power to depose kings , and i promise to defend it , when occasion requires ; and , before god , he has no such power . the immediate object of the former oath is onely our own judgment , or intention ; whereof every one is certain : and consequently , to call god for witness that he has such a judgment , being certain that he has it , is not to expose god to be a witness to a falsity . but the immediate object of the latter oath is the matter it self , which probably may be otherwise : and to call god for witness of a thing that i know probably may be otherwise , is to expose him to be witness of a falsity ; which , let the matter be never so little , is a great affront . and therefore it is a common way of speaking among consciencious people , i think such a thing is true , but i will not swear it is true . hence it follows , that the immediate object of oaths is not alwaies the judgment of the person who takes them : otherwise it would be impossible that one should ever swear false , judging that he swears true , since every one is conscious of his own actual judgment ; neither can one think that he judges actually , when he does not : and yet certainly it is possible that one should swear false , thinking that he swears true . so that though we should grant that the university of paris does oblige her members to swear , that they will defend , that the pope has no power to depose kings ; it does not therefore follow , that they can be , or are , bound to swear positively , that the pope has no such power : which notwithstanding we must swear , if we will take this oath . neither , because they are bound to swear , that they will defend the articles of the faculty of paris to be agreeable to faith and religion , does it therefore follow , ( as some do seem to pretend , ) that they are bound to defend them as articles of faith. for the common approbation of theological and spiritual books , is , that they contain nothing which is not agreeable to faith and good manners : and yet , sure , those who give such approbations are far from approving all that is contained in such books , as articles of faith. . consider , thirdly , that among other articles of the faculty of paris , one is , ( upon which chiefly our adversaries seem to have had an eye , ) that it is not the doctrine of the faculty , that the pope has any authority over the temporals of his most christian majesty ; and that the faculty has alwaies resisted those who affirm this power to be onely indirect . now to infer hence , that the faculty of paris does approve our present oath , even in this point , concerning the pope's power over the temporals of princes , is to argue thus ; the faculty of paris does not teach , that the pope has any authority over the temporals of princes : therefore , according to the opinion of that faculty , we may swear positively , that he has no such power or authority . which consequence doubtless is very weak : for it is one thing , not to teach such a doctrine , or to punish and resist those that do teach it ; and another thing , to authorize one to swear positively , or to teach the contrary . they might , in the like manner , quote all the iesuits who now live , or have been alive for many years , though they are lookt upon as the greatest sticklers against the oath , in favour of it . for they have been prohibited many years agoe , and under excommunication , to teach or preach , that the pope has any authority whatsoever to depose kings ; and whoever among them should teach any such doctrine would be severely punished : whence it manifestly follows , that it is not the doctrine of the iesuits , that the pope can depose kings . will our adversaries therefore infer hence , that it is the doctrine of the iesuits , that we may positively swear that the pope has no such power ? . in the same article is contained , that it is not the doctrine of that faculty , that the pope is above a general council , nor that he is infallible without the consent of the church . and sure hence cannot be deduced , that it is the sentiment of the aforesaid faculty , that we may positively swear the contrary tenets to be true . and though in another of their articles it be affirmed , that it is the doctrine of that faculty , that his most christian majestie 's subjects cannot be dispensed with , under any pretence whatsoever , in their loyalty due unto him : yet they are not therefore obliged to swear it . . moreover , among other oaths , which the members of the university of paris are bound to take , they must swear , that they will hold , that the b. virgin mary was preserved in her conception from original sin : yet they are not therefore obliged to swear it , and much lesse to abjure the contrary doctrine as heretical . for there is a vast difference between swearing that we will defend such a doctrine to be true ; and swearing that it is true , or abjuring the contrary doctrine as heretical . . consider , fourthly , concerning a certain decree made by the university of paris the . of april . ( whereof our adversaries make so great an account , ) condemning several propositions of sanctarellus his book as erroneous , seditious , contrary to the word of god , &c. according to a common interpretation of those words of the oath , i abjure as impious and heretical , &c. given by our adversaries , that such a decree or prohibition is void , and of no force . for , according to that interpretation of our adversaries , the forementioned words of the oath are to be taken comparatively , not assertively ; that is , not for abjuring that doctrine for heretical , but onely for as bad as heretical : in the same manner as is commonly said , that we detest such an one as the devil , knowing full well , that he is not the devil . so that , according to this acception , 't is not necessary , that who takes the oath should think that the doctrine there abjured is either impious , or heretical ; nay , he may fully be persuaded that it is neither impious , nor heretical : and he must think so , if those words must be taken comparatively , as some will have ; for all comparison is between distinct things . all which , i confess , does seem somewhat strange to me . neither do i see how , with truth , without hyperbole , and according to the plain sense of the words , one can look upon a doctrine which is not heretical , for as bad as if it were heretical ; since heresy is the blackest censure , and what-ever proposition is not heretical , is less then heretical . but my present design is not to impugn the aforesaid interpretation : what i affirm is , that if such an interpretation be warrantable , yet it cannot be gathered from the above-mentioned decree , wherein the like expression is used , viz. as erroneous , and contrary to the word of god , that the doctours of paris did hold the propositions condemned in that decree to be erroneous , seditious , or contrary to the word of god. nay , notwithstanding that decree , they might , and must think those propositions to be neither erroneous , nor seditious , nor contrary to the word of god. and if so , of what force is this decree , to prove that we may positively swear , that the pope has no power to depose princes ? . consider , fifthly , that since the censures contained in the forementioned decree are several , and the propositions therein condemned are also several , it does not well appear which censures fall upon which propositions ; or whether every censure falls upon every one of them . it seems incredible , that those learned men should censure as erroneous , seditious , and contrary to the word of god , &c. this proposition , which is mentioned in the decree , the pope may with temporal punishment chastise kings and princes for the crime of heresy : since 't is manifest , that should an heretical prince be reconciled , the pope , or any other confessarius who should reconcile him , might impose upon him for the crime of heresy some corporal and temporal penance or punishment , enjoyning him to give an alms , to build an hospital , or some such other work . . consider , sixthly , that the forementioned book of sanctarellus was prohibited at rome by the pope before it was prohibited at paris , as spondanus , a french authour , relates ; who also says , that the animosities of the university of paris against this book did arise from some hidden seeds of schism . now our adversaries do not so much as pretend , that the pope is for the lawfulness of this oath , or of opinion , that we may positively swear , that he has no power whatsoever to depose kings ; though he prohibited that book . why therefore do they infer , that the university of paris , because it prohibits the same book , is for the oath ? . consider , seventhly , whether the censures contained in the above-mentioned decree may not be understood to condemn onely a power in the pope to depose princes , either by reason of some civill insufficiency in the prince to govern , or some light cause mentioned by sanctarellus , or upon the meer account of heresy or apostasy , though they should permit their subjects to enjoy liberty of conscience : which seems to have been the doctrine of sanctarellus . if so , then our case is very different concerning the present point . for neither bellarmine , nor peron , ( against whom our adversaries do so hotly inveigh , ) do speak of a meer civill insufficiency ; neither do they affirm , that a prince may lawfully be deposed , meerly because he is an heretick , unless moreover he forces his subjects to be so too , by persecuting them . and yet , in the oath , we are bound to swear , that the pope has not any power whatsoever , in any case possible , to depose an hereticall prince , whether he persecutes his subjects or not . . consider , eighthly , that though in the forementioned decree , sanctarellus his propositions be condemned as contrary to the word of god ; yet this is not properly to condemn them ( as our adversaries pretend ) for hereticall , unless they be declared as such by the church : as , to approve a proposition as agreeable to the word of god , is not to approve it as an article of faith , according to what above has been insinuated . and there is scarce any scholasticall question of divinity , wherein the defenders of either side do not endeavour to prove their opinion out of scripture ; and consequently , they look upon the opposite sentence as contrary to the word of god : yet they are far from censuring it therefore as hereticall , and often prohibited so to doe . nay , protestants , who affirm those tenets wherein we differ from them to be repugnant to scripture , and pretend to prove they are so ; yet they do withall confess , that they are no heresies . so that as well protestants as catholicks , according to the plain and common sense of the words , understand somewhat more by an hereticall opinion , then an opinion contrary to the word of god. . concerning other things relating to the authority of france , contained in the objection ; consider , first , that the authour of a book entitled some few questions concerning the oath of allegeance , page . sets down an arrest of the parliament of paris , wherein the iesuits were ordered ( as he pretends ) to subscribe the forementioned decree or censure against sanctarellus his book . but this is a great mistake , if the arrest be understood of that decree . for that decree was made upon the . of april . and the arrest was dated the th . of march . wherein the iesuits were commanded to subscribe within three days ; so that , according to this account , they were to subscribe a decree days before it was made : and the censure of the sorbon mentioned in the decree was passed the th . of april . so that , were the arrest to be understood of this censure , they were to subscribe days before it past : which is ridiculous . besides , should we grant , that the iesuits had subscribed the forementioned decree and censure , we have already seen how little that decree , or the censure therein contained , does favour the lawfulness of this oath : and consequently , neither can the subscription of the iesuits to such a censure and decree help much thereunto . for they would not therefore subscribe or approve the oath as it lies , nor affirm , that one might positively swear , that the pope has no power whatsoever to depose princes ; and much less , that one might swear , that he abjures the contrary as hereticall : ( all which is required in the oath : ) since the university or parliament of paris never required any such oath or subscription . nay , one's subscription signifies no more , but that he thinks the thing he subscribes to be true : yet one may think a thing to be true , though he will not swear , nor counsell any other to swear it is so . . consider , secondly , that there are some other propositions alledged out of france in favour of this oath , which are commonly held in that kingdome ; viz. that his most christian majesty does not receive his kingdome but from god , and his sword — that he does not acknowledge any other superiour in his kingdome , but onely god : ( which is to be understood in temporalls ; for he acknowledges the pope to be his superiour in spiritualls . ) now , even those who refuse the oath do confess the same of his majesty . neither is an indirect and conditionall power to depose kings ( which some ascribe to the pope in certain cases ) inconsistent with such prerogatives . for every king has an indirect and conditionall power or right to wage war against any other sovereign , though he receives his government immediately from god ; and to depose him too , in case he injures such a king or his subjects , as it is possible he may , and refuses , when required thereunto , to give any reasonable satisfaction . what good english subject is there , who , in the late dutch war , ( which we suppose to have been just on our side , ) would have sworn , that his majesty had not right and power to depose the states generall , ( whom we acknowledge to be sovereign , and to depend of god alone in temporalls , ) and consequently , to absolve their subjects from their oath of allegeance made to them , in case they had persisted to refuse to give his majesty the satisfaction that was due ? and what satisfaction was due , his majesty was to be judge . so that , were this indirect deposing power inconsistent with the sovereignty of princes , there would be no sovereign prince at all . and since the pope is sovereign temporall prince of rome , and its adjacent territories , as even protestants confess ; he must have the like indirect deposing power , or right , which is inherent in every sovereign temporall prince , as even our adversaries will not deny . and yet , if we take the oath , we must swear , or testify before god , ( which certainly is to swear , ) that the pope , neither of himself , nor by any authority of the church of rome , has any power to depose kings ; that is , neither temporall nor spirituall , neither direct nor indirect : for the proposition is negative , and by consequence denies all power whatsoever . . and here i cannot but ask our adversaries a question ; which is , whether either they or protestants do affirm , that all wars whatsoever undertaken by christian princes , ( whereof some are styled defenders of the faith , others catholick majesties , others most christian majesties , ) in defence of the orthodox religion , against another prince , a persecutour of the true church , and declared to be such by a lawfull and competent judge , whether ( i say ) they affirm , that all such wars are unjust and unlawfull : and if not , whether the pope may not declare a sovereign prince to be an heretick , and a persecutour of the church , if really he be such : and whether , if he may make such a declaration , ( as being a lawfull judge in matters of that nature , according to the unanimous consent of catholicks , ) he may not also in that case invoke the help of some pious and powerfull christian king , ( which is what is understood by authorizing him , ) to stave off by arms the manifest injury done to his sheep in spiritualls : and if he may in that case invoke the help of some christian king to that effect , ( since it is manifest , that ecclesiasticks may in some cases invoke the help of a secular power , ) whether then the king so invoked may not condescend to the pope's request , and compell the hereticall prince , and persecutour , by force of arms , to desist from seducing his subjects ; and in case of refusall , to prosecute the war ( as he may all other just wars ) till he has deposed , him and consequently absolved his subjects from their oath of allegeance . and if they grant all this , how can they counsell us to swear , that the pope neither by himself , nor with any other , has any power to depose kings , or to authorize any forrein prince to invade or annoy them , or their countries ? all which is involved in the oath . . consider , thirdly , that because the gallican church has such privileges or liberties granted unto it , either by some particular concessions of the pope , or by some contract , or otherwise ; it does not therefore follow , that every other church or kingdome does enjoy the same privileges or liberties . for one kingdome may have some particular privileges which another has not : and perhaps we had here some particular privileges , granted unto us from rome , which were not granted in france . among the propositions alledged out of france concerning the pope's authority , another is , ( which seems to be held in france , ) that the pope cannot put an interdict ( which is a meer ecclesiasticall censure , as an excommunication is ) either upon the french king , or his kingdome : and moreover , the members of the university of paris do swear , that they will defend , among other articles , that the said university does not approve , that the pope may depose bishops , or deprive them , though ecclesiasticall persons , of their ecclesiasticall iurisdiction , contrary to the liberties and canons of the gallican church , commonly received in that kingdome . and yet , sure , even those catholicks who stand so much for the oath , would think it somewhat harsh , if the parliament should force them to swear , that the pope cannot depose a catholick bishop of england , ( were there any such bishop , ) that deserved to be deposed ; or that he cannot put an interdict upon this kingdome : since they onely pretend to deny the pope any jurisdiction over the temporalls of the kingdome , or to inflict temporall punishments ; but not over the spiritualls thereof , or to inflict ecclesiasticall punishments , such as an interdict is . wherefore this consequence is null ; such a practice , or such a doctrine , is allowed of in france , or for france ; therefore the same practice , or doctrine , must be allowed of in england , and for england . besides that the liberty which the french have concerning our present debate is onely , that they may defend , that the pope has no power to depose kings : which liberty is also given to our english ; since the pope in the above-mentioned briefs does not declare expresly , ( as our adversaries falsely suppose he does , ) that he has any such power , or forbid us to hold or defend the contrary . . consider , fourthly , whether , should we grant , ( which we do not ) that there were in france a publick oath for all sorts of people , wherein they do positively swear , that the pope has not any power to depose his most christian majesty , whether ( i say ) there would not be severall particular reasons to refuse such an oath as our present oath is in england , considering the present condition thereof , which are of no force in france , to refuse the like oath . for we may prudently suspect here in england , that since the framers of this oath were mortall enemies to the pope and see of rome , they have made such frequent mention therein of the pope and see of rome ( without specifying any other sovereign temporall prince , nay not so much as containing them in generall terms ; though there be as much need for his majesty to secure the loyalty of his subjects against other sovereigns , as against the pope ; ) out of hatred and contempt of the roman church , the papall dignity , and the pope's supremacy in spiritualls : and since they could not so easily bring catholicks to deny it explicitly by taking the oath of supremacy , they intend to make them deny it implicitly , and under a colour of civil loyalty , inducing them to take this oath of allegeance . and that this was the design of the parliament , is manifest . for they would have inserted in the oath a renunciation of the pope's power to excommunicate ; whereby they would implicitly , even according to our adversaries judgment , have denied the pope's supremacy . and though they left out that clause at king iames his request , yet there remains enough to make us prudently suspect , that the oath was contrived in contempt of the papall dignity . now it is a constant opinion among divines , that when any thing , though it should be indifferent of it self , is required of us in contempt of any lawfull dignity , we are bound to refuse it , though otherwise we might submit unto it . it is related of some ancient christians , that they would rather die then swear by the fortune of caesar ; because such an oath was required of them by the pagan emperours in contempt of the true god , to the end that they who took it might be thought to acknowledge implicitly thereby , that fortune was a goddess : yet christians may , if it be necessary , swear by the fortune of their princes , who are christians . in like manner , should an arrian king require of his subjects , that they should swear or subscribe this proposition , christ is a creature , they might justly refuse it , though that proposition in rigour be true ; because they might prudently suspect , that the arrians did require of them such an oath , or subscription , in contempt of the divinity of our b. saviour ; which they denied , and endeavoured to prove their assertion , because he was a creature . now nothing of this could be suspected in france , where they are roman catholicks , and own the pope's dignity and supremacy in spiritualls . . moreover , the very title of the act wherein this oath is inserted , as above has been hinted , does insinuate , that it was instituted by publick authority , as a distinctive sign , for to discover roman catholicks by the refusall thereof . neither can it be said , that the framers of this oath intended thereby onely to distinguish loyall catholicks from those who are not such : first , because the title makes no such distinction ; and i suppose that the title was put in by those who framed the act , and intended thereby to declare their intention . secondly , because we might say the same of distinctive signs of christians instituted by pagan emperours , viz. that they were instituted by them onely to distinguish obedient and loyall christians from others who were not such . for christians , who were put to death by the emperours for not submitting to the publick tests ordained by them , were said to be put to death for disobedience to the emperours edicts : and many of the pagan emperours did feign that they could not be secure of the christians ; as some protestants feign that they cannot be secure of papists : and consequently , those pagan emperours might in the like manner have required a compliance with those tests , in order to their security ; as iulian , the apostata , required his christian souldiers to doe homage to his standard , ( where he and iupiter were painted , ) under pretence of the respect due unto him . thirdly , because protestants are perswaded , that the very principles of our religion are inconsistent with civil allegeance ; and therefore in the beginning of the forementioned act , they look upon this inconsistency as an infection drawn from our religion : and consequently , they intend this oath for to distinguish roman catholicks from not roman catholicks ; or ( which is the same ) catholicks who stick to their principles , as by them understood , from those who do not . so that whoever takes this oath , does , according to the protestants sentiment , renounce or deny some principle of the roman religion ; though they require somewhat more for a perfect conformity to their religion . . now 't is certain , according to all divines , that it is never lawfull to comply with the distinctive sign of a false religion , though the thing of it self should be lawfull or indifferent ; as with the eating of swines-flesh in time of the iews , and the burning of incense before an idoll ; which might have been instituted as an affront : for such signs are onely arbitrary . and yet should there have been the like oath enacted in france , we could not prudently suspect , that it would ever have been intended for a distinctive sign of catholicks from not catholicks . . again , our present oath has been prohibited by several briefs of the pope particularly directed to the catholicks of england : which is sufficient to perswade any good english catholick to acquiesce , and forbear the taking thereof . but supposing that the oath framed by the third estate of france had past ; yet had it not been prohibited by the pope , there would not have been the same reason to refuse it in france as here . and sure the french are so addicted to the pope , that had * he expresly prohibited them to take such an oath , or to defend such a doctrine , they would have submitted thereunto : since we see that they submitted to the bull of innocent x. wherein the five propositions of iansenius are condemned , and assented unto it , without expecting the determination of a general council , and though severall persons in france are suspected to have adhered to those propositions . . the better to explicate this doctrine , let us suppose , that two persons possess their respective lands upon the same title , and that one of them has been condemned by his lawfull judge , as possessing such lands upon an unjust title : the other , who is not personally condemned , though his title be no better , is not bound to take notice of such a condemnation , nor to deliver up his lands , till he be personally condemned . in the like manner , though the english are bound to forbear to take this oath , because they are prohibited particularly to take it : yet the french , supposing they have the like oath , or teach the doctrine contained in our oath , as they do not , would not be bound to take notice of such a prohibition , as not being directed unto them . wherefore as it is not reasonable , that the same liberty should be permitted to them who live in places infected , as to others who inhabit places free from infection ; to them who are in a tempest , as to those who enjoy fair weather : so neither is it reasonable , that we english , who live in a kingdome infected with heresy , and under a persecution , should be permitted to have the same liberty as they have in france , where they publickly profess the catholick religion , and the magistrates are free from the infection of heresy , and obedient sons to the church ; and consequently , what they determine concerning the pope's authority , cannot be suspected to proceed from hatred to the papall dignity : whenas , on the contrary , since our magistrates are implacable enemies to the pope , what they resolve concerning the pope's power , may prudently be thought to proceed out of indignation against him , and with design to bring off catholicks by little and little from their obedience to the pope . and certainly , we ought to trust rather a friend , and to give him more liberty , then an enemy . whence i conclude , that whatever our adversaries produce out of the publick acts or decrees of the parliaments and universities of france , is of little or no force to justifie the taking our present oath . . consider , lastly , that though our adversaries do boast , that some doctours of the sorbon , being consulted about this oath , have approved it as it lies ; yet i have never seen their subscriptions produced : and the authours who have written hitherto for the oath , make mention onely of those publick acts above quoted . i remember , that those who heretofore defended the nullity of the marriage between henry the eighth and queen katharine , pretended to have subscriptions from the doctours of paris in their favour ; yet all catholicks now confess that the forementioned marriage was valid , though the validity thereof has never been declared by a general council , but onely by particular bulls or briefs ; as the unlawfulness also of this oath has been declared . moreover , admit that some doctours of paris have approved this oath as represented unto them ; yet we ought to consider how the case was stated . for every one is not able to state rightly a case ; and several times are left out some circumstances very material , which change the nature thereof . and particularly we ought to consider , whether the several differences assigned above between england and france , in relation to the present debate , were taken notice of , wherewith french divines might probably be unacquainted : and perhaps some of them were ask'd onely concerning the pope's power to depose kings ; which because they denied , those who proposed the quere presently inferred , that they approved the whole oath : which inference is ridiculous , as has been shewn . now 't is certain , that the same case differently stated requires a different solution . neither does it appertain to a divine , when he gives his opinion of a case so stated , to examine whether it be rightly stated or not . some french divines , having been asked , whether it be lawfull for catholicks in england to frequent the protestant churches , have answered in the affirmative , because it is lawfull in france for catholicks to goe to the huguenots churches : yet afterwards , being more particularly informed of our laws and customes , and of the pope's brief prohibiting english catholicks to frequent such churches , ( which he has not prohibited to the french , ) they have answered and subscribed the contrary . . besides , should we see the subscriptions of those doctours in favour of the oath , if there be any , probably we should find them to be liable to the same exceptions as the publick acts of france , which are produced by our adversaries to the same intent . finally , concerning the sentiment of the ancient french divines about this point , i refer the reader to the learned oration of cardinal peron , delivered before the third estate of france . and admitting that some modern french divines do seem to favour the oath : if the ancient divines be of the contrary opinion , why should we acquiesce rather to the sentiment of the former then of the latter ; especially since the opinion of the latter has been seconded by the pope's briefs condemning the oath ? i have been longer about this point , because i find that the chief or onely inducement of several persons , to believe that the oath may lawfully be taken , is this pretended authority of france . . if it be objected , lastly , that many learned english divines have and do defend the lawfulness of this oath : that several english catholicks , consciencious men , have taken it : that the ancient fathers of the church were against the pope's power to depose kings : that so great an authority as this is for the lawfulness of the oath cannot but make the affirmative probable ; and if it be probable that the oath may be taken , why may we not take it ? especially since it is practically improbable , that it is lawfull to deprive a man of what he possesses , viz. a king of his kingdome , upon a meerly probable opinion ? that it is no article of faith , that this oath is unlawfull , or that the pope has any power to depose princes ; and if so , why may we not take the oath , and swear positively , that the pope has no such power ? finally , that those who impugn the oath are for the greater part priests and iesuits , who depend of the court of rome , who are carried away with passion and interest , and who have never seriously considered the merits of the cause ; and consequently , are not to be consulted , nor hearkned unto , in this matter . . concerning the divines , and other authours , who defend or have defended the lawfulness of this oath ; consider , first , what character vrban the eighth gives of them , in the brief he published against this oath , the . of may . in these words ; they who persuade you otherwise , ( speaking to english catholicks , ) prophesy unto you a lying vision and a fraudulent divination . for sooner ought the sword of the mighty to take from a christian his life , then his faith. yea , if an angel from heaven teach you otherwise then the apostolick truth , let him be accursed , anathema sit . and whether , should his majesty give the like character of one of his subjects , in order to prevent the rest from consulting him , or following his counsell in a certain civil matter , he would deserve to be held for an obedient subject , who , notwithstanding his majestie 's prohibition , should follow such a man's counsell in the very thing prohibited . . consider , secondly , that actually the superiours of the clergy and of the religious orders here in england , with several others of their respective subjects , learned , consciencious and grave men , unanimously judge , that the oath ought not to be taken , and publickly profess , that they are of this judgment ; whenas the priests , who are of the contrary opinion , ( excepting one , who is in actual disobedience to his superiours , to whom he has made a vow of obedience , and who for his disobedience has been excommunicated , ) do not dare publickly to declare themselves , though the disadvantage ( if any ) lies here upon those who are against the oath . . consider , thirdly , that whoever is against any part or clause of this oath , may justly be alledged against this oath ; whereas no body can be alledged for the oath , unless he be for all and every clause thereof , as is manifest , according to that common maxime , bonum ex integra causa , malum ex quocunque defectu . nay , those who are against the oath need onely to shew , that something therein contained is at least doubtfull ; for a doubtfull oath is unlawfull : whereas those who defend the oath must prove , that whatever is therein contained , as the immediate object of the oath , is certain ; for such must be the immediate object of an oath . and who will not rather think , that so many who are against the oath will evince that something therein contained is at least doubtfull , then so few who are for it will prove that all things therein couched , and sworn , are certain ? it being far easier to evince a thing to be doubtfull , then the contrary certain . . consider , fourthly , that even our adversaries do confess , that all the scholastical divines and all the canonists , for about years , have been against some clauses contained in this oath ; and that even now there is scarce any divine , and much less canonist , ( and to divines and canonists properly appertains the discussion of the clauses of this oath under debate , ) who dares to defend publickly the lawfulness thereof . neither is there any catholick authour , besides some few of his majestie 's subjects , either french , german , or of any other countrey , for so much as i have been able to learn , who has printed any thing in defence of this oath as it lies : whereas not onely his majestie 's subjects , but also many forrein authours , spaniards , italians , germans , and flemmings , have printed books against it , even as it lies . now to say that all the divines and canonists were in so gross an errour , and for so many years , no body daring to oppose them , till some few priests of our nation rose up to disabuse the world , and prove , that all those divines and canonists had not understood either the scriptures , or the councills , or the ancient fathers , though in all probability they were as much vers'd in them as these modern divines ; for them to say this , ( i say ) seems somewhat strange , and savours not a little what the protestants affirm concerning their pretended reformation , viz. that the whole church was involved for many hundred years in gross errours , till luther and calvin came to disabuse the world , and to shew , that the doctours of the church , for so many years , had been erroneously mistaken in the true sense of scripture . it seems also very strange , what some of our adversaries insinuate , that those ancient divines and canonists had not seriously , but perfunctorily considered the points under debate in this oath , though they write great tracts concerning them . what man can prudently think , that neither bellarmine , nor peron , nor suarez , nay nor st. thomas , nor any other of so many ancient and modern divines , who have impugned this oath , or some part thereof , have seriously studied the point , but onely slightly examined it ; and that onely withrington , peter walsh , and some others of their caball , have throughly discussed this matter , and seriously studied it ? if it be reasonable to reject the authority of so many grave and learned divines , upon such a precarious supposition as this is ; why may not any one , upon the same account , slight the authority of his adversary , saying that he has not seriously examined the point under debate ; and that had he seriously pondered it , he would have been of the contrary persuasion ? . consider , fifthly , that mr. preston , who writ those books concerning this matter , published under the name of withrington , and the principal champion for the lawfulness of this oath , as i am informed by a person worthy of all credit , and one who was well acquainted with him , never took the oath himself , nor advised any other to take it ; but onely writ those books , to shew , for the comfort of catholicks , what might be said in favour thereof . the same authour grants , that the pope has authority to order and direct the temporal affairs of princes , and to impose upon them temporal punishments by way of a precept , or prohibition , or a direction , in order to their spiritual good ; and he inveighs against skulchenius , for accusing him , as if he had denied the pope such a power over the temporalls of princes ; and he saies , that there is no controversy in the present point , concerning the pope's power to command or prohibit princes , even in temporal affairs , with reference to the spiritual good of themselves or their kingdoms . neque de potestate ecclesiastica praecipiendi , sed tantùm coercendi , ulla in praesenti controversia est . now this authority which withrington admits in the pope over the temporalls of princes , seems obnoxious to the same difficulties which he objects against the coercive power of the pope , and is contrary to the authority of the faculty of paris alledged above by our adversaries ; non esse doctrinam facultatis , quod summus pontifex aliquam in temporalia regis christianissimi authoritatem habeat . and certainly , if he has a directive or preceptive authority over the temporals of princes , he must have some authority over their temporals . . now consider whether , since withrington and his associates will not grant the pope , as supreme pastour of the church , any power or authority which is not evidently deduced out of the precedents which christ and his apostles have left in scripture , whether ( i say ) this preceptive , prohibitive , and directive power over the temporalls of princes , which withrington grants the pope , can be better declared out of the precedents left in scripture by christ and his apostles , ( for when did any of them exercise such a power over temporal princes in civil matters ? ) then the coercive power , which he denies the pope . and consider farther , whether the forementioned power be not in effect the same with the coercive power . for if the pope may justly , in some cases , and in order to the spiritual good of a nation , command a king to desist from persecuting his subjects upon the score of religion , or otherwise to lay down his government , and prohibit his subjects , in case he goes on in persecuting them upon that account , to bear him civil allegeance ; how can they swear , that , notwithstanding any sentence made or granted , or to be made and granted , by the pope , or his authority , against their prince , they will bear him true allegeance ? for certainly all just precepts are to be obeyed ; and doubtless kings will be as unwilling to grant this prohibitive or preceptive power to the pope over their temporalls , as the coercive power . for they do not so much fear what the pope can doe against them by force of arms , as by force of precepts and prohibitions . . besides , the authour of the questions concerning the oath seems to grant , that the pope may , in some extravagant case of absolute necessity , to defend the spirituall welfare of those who are committed to his charge , and acting onely by a commission derived from necessity , depose princes ; as one may justly take away his neighbour's life , when , unjustly attacqued by him , he cannot otherwise defend his own life . now this is all that bellarmine affirms . for he does not grant the pope authority to depose princes , but in case of an absolute necessity , of defending his flock from being infected by their prince with heresie . and if they grant this power to the pope , how do they affirm , that we may swear , that the pope has not any power or authority , in any case possible , to depose princes ? so that , if what the chief maintainers of the oath teach concerning the deposing power be duely sifted , we shall find , that in effect they grant what they seem to deny ; or at least that they grant enough to render the taking of this oath unlawfull . . consider , lastly , whether , when it manifestly appears , that the ground whereon an authour proceeds is false , or inconclusive , any account is to be made of the opinion or judgment of such an authour . and if not , then let us briefly consider the main reasons whereon the defenders of the oath bottome their sentiment . it is far from my intention , to defend , that the pope has authority to depose princes : my design onely is , to examine the reasons whereby some authours do endeavour to shew , that the pope has no such authority . for let an opinion be never so good , yet some may ground it ill . . the common reason therefore whereon most of those authours , who impugn the pope's deposing power , do ground themselves in this point , is , that a meer spirituall power , such as is onely granted the pope over all christendome , in no case possible , does extend it self to any temporall thing . this reason does not shew , that the pope , as temporall prince of rome , has not an indirect right and power to depose kings , in some cases ; such a power being inherent to every sovereign prince : and yet if one takes this oath , he must swear , that the pope neither by himself , nor otherwise , has any power whatsoever to depose kings . so that whoever takes this oath , does , according to the common sense of the words , ( and he swears he takes them so , ) implicitly deny the pope to be sovereign temporall prince of rome , because he denies him something inherent and proper to all sovereign princes . . moreover , a meer spirituall power may extend it self in some cases to temporall things ; and the contrary is manifestly false . and even our adversaries confess , ( as has been seen above , ) that the pope's meer spirituall power may extend it self to temporall things per modum directionis aut praecepti . christ and his apostles either had no temporall power whiles they lived , or at least did not exercise it , but onely a meer spirituall power : regnum meum non est de hoc mundo : and yet he saies , non veni pacem mittere , sed gladium ; i did not come to bring peace , but the sword , and to cause a separation between the nearest relations ; as between mother and daughter , brother and sister , and such like , who are tied one to the other by the law of nature , as subjects are tied to their sovereign : which is to be understood , when a reciprocall communication between them is prejudiciall to their eternall salvation . our saviour also used a temporall power and force , to cast out those who with buying and selling profaned the materiall temple of god ▪ as hereticks profane with their heresies the souls of men , the spirituall temples of god. st. peter gave sentence of death against ananias and sapphira ; and god miraculously concurred to the execution thereof : as he does miracles sometimes to confirm the sentences issued by the pastours of the church . the power of excommunication , which is allowed the pope and other prelats , is meerly spirituall , as all confess : and yet , in some cases , it extends it self to deprive the person excommunicated from all civil communication with others , due unto them by the law of nature ; according to what has been alledged above out of scripture . neither can it be said , that such a punishment was imposed upon excommunicated persons by the consent of temporall princes . for what temporal prince was there in the time of the apostles , who granted any such effect to their excommunication ; since the temporall princes then living were persecutours of christianity ? . besides , a confessarius has meer spirituall power over his penitent ; and yet , sure , he may enjoyn some corporall and temporall penance , ( as has already been hinted , ) and oblige him , or declare him obliged , to make such a restitution , or to forbear the going to such a place , where the occasion of his ruine was : all which things are temporall . a wife , who cannot live with her husband without imminent danger of being perverted by him , is bound to quit his company , and deprive him of the right he has over her , though meerly temporall and carnall : and she may be commanded by her spirituall directour to doe so . and sure there is as great a tie between a wife and her husband , though in a different kind , as between a subject and his prince . . again , what kingdome is there , where meerly spirituall crimes , as heresie , apostasie , blasphemy , &c. are not punished , by the law , with some temporall punishment , either of death , or imprisonment , or banishment , or confiscation of goods , or such like ? certain it is , that in england there are severall punishments enacted by the law against spirituall crimes , and in matters of religion , as it appears by so many penall laws established against recusants : yea , whoever is excommunicated here in england , is deprived , according to the law , of power to plead , or sue another for what is due unto him . so that protestants , doubtless , are not of opinion , that one cannot be temporally punished by a meer spirituall power , or upon a meer spirituall account . . if it be objected , that temporall princes have enacted such laws against spirituall crimes as prejudiciall to the temporall good of their subjects ; or because at least christian princes are impowered , by severall titles allowed them , to defend by their temporall forces the church , and to punish crimes destructive to faith : i answer , that , according to this objection , the pope may deprive one of some temporall thing , ( if nothing else do hinder it , ) when it is prejudiciall to the spirituall good of christians : for he is invested also with severall titles , which enable him to direct the temporalls of princes in order to their spirituall good , or the spirituall good of their nation : because if a meer temporall power ( such as we onely ascribe to kings ) can extend it self to the temporall punishment of a meer spirituall crime , ( when it is prejudiciall to the temporall good , the judgment of which crime does not belong to the temporall court ; ) why may not a meer spirituall power ( such as we attribute onely to the pope over all christendome ) enjoyn , in certain cases , ( if there be not some other obstacle , ) a temporall punishment , or deprive of some . temporall thing , in order to a spirituall end ? the execution of which punishment , and the deprivation of which thing , belongs to the temporall prince . and so we see , that the ecclesiasticall power does , and may justly , in some cases , invocare auxilium brachii secularis , ( invoke the assistence of the secular power , ) in order to inflict some temporall punishment upon the account of some spirituall crime . . yet farther , the power of excommunicating ( which is meerly spirituall ) may in some cases extend it self to punish meer civill crimes ; as may be made appear by severall instances : why may not therefore , in the like manner , a meer spirituall power extend it self , in some cases , to inflict a temporall punishment ? and a meer temporall power also may , in certain cases , extend it self to punish ecclesiasticall princes , who are exempt from the ordinary civill jurisdiction : why therefore , on the contrary , may not a meer spirituall power extend it self to punish , in some cases , temporall persons , and with temporall punishments , at least by the assistence of civil magistrates ? for temporalls are not out of the reach of the spirituall power , more then spiritualls are out of the reach of the temporall power . . finally , the stoutest maintainers of the oath , and the greatest impugners of the pope's power to depose princes , cannot deny , but that a subject who is persecuted by his prince upon the score of his religion , and is in imminent danger of being perverted , may lawfully flie , and steal away into a forrein country , according to the ancient practice of christ and his apostles , and the primitive christians , and according to those words of the gospell , cùm autem persequentur vos in civitate ista , fugite in aliam ; and this even against his prince's express prohibition : and his spirituall directours may counsell him , or enjoyn him , to doe so : and consequently , such a man may lawfully , in that case , deprive his prince , upon a meer spirituall account , ( viz. the salvation of his soul , ) of a naturall-born subject ; which belongs to the temporalties of the prince . yea , what priest or lay-catholick is there , even among those who are so hot for the oath , and against the pope's deposing power , pretending thereby to signalize with particularity their loyalty to the king , who does not transgress , and thinks he may do so lawfully , upon some spirituall account , severall civil and temporall laws , enacted by the king and parliament against popish recusants ; either sending over their children beyond seas , against the express laws of the realm ; or tarrying in the kingdome , against severall proclamations of his majesty ; or doing many other meer temporall things prohibited unto papists by the law ? . all which instances , most whereof are granted by our adversaries , do evidently evince , that spirituall and temporall things are not so vastly different , that they cannot , in any case possible , interfere the one with the other : that it is not always unlawfull to deprive one of a temporall thing upon a meer spirituall account ; and that a meer spirituall power may , in some cases , extend it self to temporall things : and consequently , that this proof of the forementioned assertion , viz. that the pope has not power to depose kings in any case possible , is manifestly false , and of no force , whatever the assertion be in it self . neither do i say , that , because a spirituall power may , in some cases , extend it self to temporalls , it may therefore depose kings ; but onely , that it is not a good reason to prove , that the pope cannot depose kings in any case whatsoever , because a meer spirituall power can in no case possible extend it self to temporalls . . another reason very common among those who defend the oath , and deny the pope's deposing power , is , because neither the unlawfulness of the oath , nor the pope's power to depose kings , is any article of divine faith. whence they infer , that one may lawfully take the oath , and , by consequence , swear positively , that the pope has no such power . now let any one judge , whether this consequence be not manifestly null : such a thing is no article of faith ; therefore we may lawfully swear the contrary . it is no article of divine faith , that his majesty is king of great britanny : shall we therefore swear , that he is not ? it is no article of faith , that the pope is sovereign temporall prince of rome : and yet neither protestant nor catholick will swear , that he is not . the reason is , because a thing may be certain , though no article of faith ; or at least doubtfull : and one cannot lawfully swear what is false , or doubtfull . . and as for our present case ; those who defend the pope's power to depose kings , in some cases , do not unanimously affirm , that it is an article of faith , or that it is expresly defined as such by any generall council , or by the universall consent of the church : but some of them endeavour to prove it out of scripture , as a meer theologicall truth ; others deduce it from prescription ; others from a donation or agreement made between catholick princes ; alledging to this purpose that famous canonicall constitution of the council of lateran under innocent the third , assented unto by the embassadours and plenipotentiaries of all or most catholick princes of those times , present at the councill . . at least it does not seem impossible , that catholick princes , out of hatred to heresie , and zeal for the conservation of the catholick religion , should make a league among themselves , that if any of them should become an heretick , and should be declared as such by the pope , ( to whom , as all catholicks confess , belongs the authority of declaring one an heretick , ) it should be lawfull for the rest , in that case , to attacque the transgressour , and force him by their arms to recant ; and in case of refusall , to prosecute the war till they have deposed him , and absolved his subjects from their oath of allegeance . and what is agreed upon so by the common consent of princes , cannot be recalled , but by their common consent . this case ( i say ) does not seem impossible . now the pope in that case , by declaring such a prince an heretick , does as it were authorize the rest of the allies to attacque him ; and in case he refuses to recant , to depose him : though he is not then so properly deposed by force of the pope's declaration , as of the contract made between those princes . suppose that some zealous protestant should entail his estate upon his heirs with this condition , that if any of them should quit the protestant religion , and should be declared by the archbishop of canterbury ( whom protestants acknowledge here in england as their primate ) to have quitted protestancy , his inheritance should pass to the next heir . now if the archbishop should declare in this case , that such an one who possest that estate had quitted the protestant religion , he would deprive him , or rather declare him deprived of his estate , though the archbishop has no authority , in rigour , to deprive any man of his estate . and in this case such a man would be deprived of his estate , rather by force of the entailment , then of the archbishop's declaration . . finally , protestants do commonly confess , ( to return to the main point , ) that the points wherein they differ from us , as , no purgatory , no transubstantiation , no invocation of saints , and such like negatives , are no articles of faith ; and yet they are far from positively swearing the contrary . whence i conclude , that the forementioned reason of these authours is manifestly false : for it runs thus . whensoever any thing is no article of faith , the contrary may positively be sworn : but the pope's power to depose kings is no article of faith : therefore we may positively swear , that he has no such power . the major proposition is manifestly false , as has been shewn . . another main argument , which the defenders of the oath make a great account of in order to deny the pope's deposing power , is , that our saviour did not come into the world to deprive other men of their temporal dominions , ( regnum meum non est de hoc mundo ; ) and much less to deprive kings of their kingdoms , ( non eripit mortalia , qui regna dat coelestia . ) hence they infer , that the pope has no such power , for his power must be immediately derived from christ , whose vicar he is . to this argument i answer , first , that it is manifestly false , that the authority of christ and his apostles did not extend it self , in some cases , to the deprivation of temporals ; as has been proved . secondly , that the pope and other bishops have the temporal sovereignty of several places , granted unto them by temporal princes , or otherwise acquired ; though neither our saviour nor his apostles had any such sovereignty . wherefore this consequence is null , christ had no such power ; therefore the pope has it not : and yet in the oath we are bound to swear , that the pope has not any power whatsoever to depose princes , derived from christ , or any body else . thirdly , that out of those words of the scripture , and the hymn of the church , is not proved , that our saviour had no authority , in some extraordinary case , to deprive kings of their dominions . certain it is , that god has not given me this life to kill my neighbour : yet in some extravagant case , when i cannot otherwise defend my own life , i may lawfully kill him . 't is also certain , that his majesty was not made king of england , to take away from other princes their dominions : yet he may doe it , if otherwise he cannot defend his subjects . neither did christ come to damn any one out of his primary intention , but to save all ; as is evident from several places of scripture : and yet he does , and may justly , condemn men , who will be obstinate , to eternal punishments . in like manner , his primary design in coming into the world was not , to separate a man from his wife , a son from his father , or brother from his sister ; for he commands all , especially relations , to keep union and due correspondence among themselves : and yet 't is said of him in scripture , non veni pacem mittere , sed gladium , i did not come to bring peace , but division , and to make a separation between man and wife , father and son , brother and sister , when the communication with them is destructive to their salvation : and yet 't is certain , that subjects are not more expresly commanded in scripture to honour their sovereigns , then children are commanded to honour their parents , and wives to obey their husbands . . if our adversaries object , that the cases alledged by us here and above , to prove that christ and his apostles did sometimes exercise their power over temporals , or deprive others of some temporal thing , did proceed , not from an ordinary , but an extraordinary power ; and by consequence , hence cannot be inferred , that the pope has any such power , since he succeeds christ , and his apostles , in their ordinary jurisdiction onely : to this i answer , that all the cases at least alledged by us are not such . for the power to deprive one , by excommunication , of all civil conversation , and to separate a man from his wife , in certain cases , is inherent in the pope according to his ordinary jurisdiction . that the forementioned instances do shew , that though christ's power upon earth was meerly spiritual , and his kingdom was not of this world ; yet he exercised sometimes his power over temporals : which was the main intent , for which i alledged those precedents of christ and his apostles . finally , that it is a very extraordinary case , for popes to depose kings , and even ( which is much less ) to excommunicate them ; and those who derive the pope's deposing power from christ , affirm , that he has received that power onely for some extraordinary and extravagant cases . . and here i cannot but reflect upon these authours , who impugn the forementioned power in the pope . they require their adversaries to shew out of scripture the king-dethroning power : if they cannot shew it thence , then they triumph , and conclude , that the pope has no such power : though that inference be null , as we have insinuated . if they produce out of scripture several instances to prove , that christ's and his apostles power did extend it self sometimes to temporals ; then they answer , that such cases were extraordinary ; and consequently , that they ought not to be brought as proofs of any such power in the pope . so that , though christ had exercised never so great temporal power , and had deposed more kings then ever popes did depose , or pretend to depose ; they might with the same answer put them all off , saying , that they were extraordinary cases , and proceeded from an extraordinary jurisdiction . . there follows another reason , of great value among the impugners of the pope's power to depose kings ; and it is , that there cannot be found in all antiquity , till gregory the vii . his time , one precedent for any such power in the pope ; whereas christians were persecuted as much by pagan emperours , as they are or have been persecuted by heretical princes : neither had the ancient christians less courage or zeal for their religion , and the conservation thereof , then the modern . but , whatever the opinion of the pope's power to depose kings be , this reason is not solid . first , because those who ground the forementioned power upon prescription , or an agreement made between princes , can easily answer , that in time of the pagan emperours there was no such prescription or agreement made ; and consequently , that it is no wonder , if in their time no such power was exercised . secondly , because , since the deposition was to be put in execution by the help of some christian prince , there was not , for a long time , any christian prince at all , or any one so powerfull , that could put it in execution : and consequently , the pope's sentence , if he had issued forth any against a pagan emperour , would upon this account have been insignificant : neither would the pagan subjects have taken notice of it ; and the christian subjects were , many times , so inconsiderable , that had they taken notice of it , or not , it would have been of little concern . . thirdly , because 't is no good argument , such a power was not exercised till such a time ; therefore there was no such power till such a time . the existency of one onely act does necessarily infer the existency of a power for it : but the denial of several , yea of all acts , appertaining to such a power , though for some long time , does not necessarily infer the denial of such a power . for a power , especially to extraordinary cases , may lie dormant for a long time . the power to excommunicate princes nominatim is certainly derived from christ ; and yet we find very few precedents in ancient times of any such excommunication . and some have reflected very well , as above we hinted , that there is not one instance of an heretical prince , who was alwaies brought up in heresy , excommunicated nominatim : and yet even those who deny the pope any power to depose kings , affirm , that he may excommunicate nominatim such princes . . fourthly , i do not remember to have read , that either iulian the apostata , or any of the arrian kings , were speciatim excommunicated : and yet , sure , there was a power to excommunicate them ; yea and they deserved it too . why therefore do these authours infer , that , because several kings , who persecuted the church , were not deposed , there was no power to depose them ? such a thing was not done ; therefore it might not lawfully have been done ; is no good consequence . there was no general council held in the church for many hundred years after christ , till the first general council , which was that of nice ; though there were several heresies , and many zealous popes , in those times : shall we therefore conclude , that the popes had no authority to call a general council derived from christ ? or shall we alledge the continuance of three hundred years without a general council , to prove that there is no power in the pope to call such a council ? and if a power could lie dormant , by reason of certain circumstances , for three hundred years , why not for some years more ? so that , because the popes did not exercise , for many hundred years , a power to depose kings , it does not follow , that they were not invested with any such power . . i close up this point with another reason , which is , that the impugners of the pope's deposing power cannot understand , as they will needs persuade us , what difference can be between a direct power and an indirect power : and since they are convinced that the pope has no direct power to depose princes , as even bellarmine confesses , they infer , that he neither has an indirect power to doe it . for what matters it , say they , to make the mischief the less , whether one's eyes be beaten out by a direct stroke from a tennis-ball , or by a bricol ? in answer to this difficulty ; no body denies but that , if a prince be really deposed , the effect is the same , whether he was deposed by a direct , or indirect power : and this is all the instance they bring does amount to . for certainly , 't is harder , more extraordinary , and more skill is required to strike a set mark by bricol , then by a direct stroke of a tennis-ball ; and were one to stand the one or the other stroke , sure he would rather stand a bricol then a direct stroke . moreover , there is a vast difference between a direct and an indirect power to depose kings ; and so palpable , that ( sure ) these authours could not chuse but perceive it . is there not a great difference between the power his majesty has to depose , or recall a lord-lieutenant of ireland , and to depose a forrein prince , when he cannot otherwise defend his subjects ? between the right every one has to make use of what is his own , and to make use of what belongs to another , in case of extreme necessity ? between the right one has to cut off his hair , and to cut off his arm , when otherwise the whole body would perish ? between the power a man has to put away his servant , and to put away his wife , from cohabiting with him , in some extraordinary case ? certainly , such powers are very different ; and as different is a direct or absolute power , from an indirect or conditional power onely , to depose princes . the former is inconsistent with the sovereignty of a prince , but not the latter . a direct and absolute power is easily , often , and many times at the meer pleasure of him that is invested therewith , put in execution : whereas a pure indirect power is seldome reduced to practice , and in some extravagant case onely . hence i deduce , that the indirect power over princes , which some attribute to the pope , is not inconsistent with their security , nor with the duty and respect due unto them . for certainly one prince may be secure of another prince ; and yet every prince has an indirect power to depose any other sovereign , in case it be necessary for the defence of his own subjects . any one that walks in the streets may be secure , that i will not take away his life ; and yet i have an indirect power to kill him , if he attaques me unjustly , and i cannot otherwise defend my self . . and as for the respect due to princes , catholick divines affirm more of the pope , concerning this point , ( without being therefore charged with disrespect toward him , ) then of meer temporal princes . for they openly defend , that should the pope become an heretick , ipso facto he would cease to be pope ; and should he persist to retain the papall dignity , christian princes might compell him by force of arms to quit it : and yet they do not assert , that a king , meerly because he becomes an heretick , ipso facto ceases to be king , or that he may be deposed upon that account onely ; since even bellarmine and peron are not of opinion , that a prince can be deposed meerly because he is an heretick , unless moreover he does endeavour to pervert his subjects . so that one cannot swear positively , neither does the pope require it of any one , that a king , neither by himself , nor by any authority derived from his crown , or otherwise , hath any power whatsoever , in any case imaginable , to depose the pope , not onely as a temporal prince , but also as pope , or an ecclesiastical sovereign , according to what has been insinuated . what wonder is it therefore , that catholicks should scruple to swear positively , in as ample terms , that the pope cannot depose kings ? for , sure , no catholick will affirm , that kings have more power over the pope , then the pope over kings . . from what hitherto has been discuss'd in reference to this point , i conclude , that though the opinion that denies the pope to have any authority to depose kings should be true , yet the forementioned reasons to prove it are manifestly false , or inconclusive ; and consequently , the authority of such authours , who ground themselves upon those reasons , as most of our adversaries do , is void and of no force . yea , should the aforesaid reasons prove , that the pope has not any power to depose kings , yet it does not therefore follow , that the oath may lawfully be taken . for there are many other difficulties , as we have seen . . concerning the example of such catholicks as have taken the oath ; consider , first , whether most of them have not been guided by the authority of such writers , as have grounded themselves upon the above-mentioned reasons ; which are palpably false , or insignificant . and if so , whether , as the authority of such writers , so the example of such catholicks as were guided by them , be of any force . consider , secondly , that as there has scarce ever been any question , which before had been under great debate , and wherein considerable parties were concerned , decided by a general council , but that some persons , who seemed learned and moral men , either out of ignorance , or obstinacy , have stood out ; and yet the example of such ought not to move us to follow them : so neither has there been any debate , wherein numerous parties on both sides were engaged , decided by the pope out of a council , but that some of those who were condemned , blinded with ignorance , or carried away with obstinacy , have refused to submit ; and yet neither ought the example of such to invite us to imitate them , because they go against an express order and declaration of their lawfull superiour , to whom they had referred the decision of the matter under debate , and to whose ordinances they owe at least an exteriour obedience . . consider , thirdly , whether it be not much to be feared , that at least some of those who have taken the oath , have been carried away with the prospect to some temporal interest or advantage , which did dazzle their eyes . whether others of them have not of purpose waved the conferring this matter with grave and consciencious men , who were inclined to the contrary , though against their interest , and are ready to subscribe their opinion : and whether they have not guided themselves by some priests , neither more learned , nor more consciencious then the former , nor so many in number , and who refuse to subscribe their sentiment in this matter ; though there does no reason appear , why they should be afraid of any prejudice thereby . and if so , whether such persons , upon this account , may not justly be suspected of some affected ignorance . whether others have not governed themselves meerly by the opinion of lay-men , unvers'd in these controversies ; and not by the sentiment of divines or canonists , to whom the discussion of these matters onely appertains . whether others have not consulted one onely part of the oath , viz. concerning the pope's power to depose kings ; and being informed that he had no such power , have presently taken the oath , without consulting or examining several other difficulties contained therein . whether some of them , being afterwards better informed , do or did not repent that they ever took the oath . and finally , whether the precedents of such catholicks , who are justly presumed to have been governed , in taking the oath , by some of the forementioned waies , ought to move any prudent and consciencious man , to make so solemn an act , as is the taking this publick oath , bringing god or witness of the truth and justice of all and every thing he swears therein . . consider , fourthly , whether many of those who have taken the oath , are not ignorant of the several briefs issued forth by popes against it : or at least , whether they have seriously pondered them ; the expressions so weighty , wherewith they declare the unlawfulness of the oath ; and the character they give of such as counsell or teach the contrary ; which certainly is enough to startle any tender conscience : and whether they can think themselves obedient sons to their supreme pastour and father , when they disobey his expresse prohibition , published several times , after so long debate , and so mature deliberation . finally , whether most of them have not been carried away with the pretended authority of france for the lawfulness of the oath : whereas france never approved , by any publick act , the whole oath as it lies ; nor that part thereof , for which onely the authority of france is alledged , as it is couched in the oath . . consider , lastly , that if what is commonly reported be true , all or most of such catholicks who have taken the oath have proceeded upon evident mistakes . some of them were induced thereunto , because they thought that the taking this oath was not malum in se , but onely malum quia prohibitum ; and that the popes by their briefs had made it unlawfull , and declared it so : and consequently , that an extraordinary damage , such as they apprehend in the refusall of the oath , does excuse them from complying with this , as with other prohibitions of the same nature . now this is a manifest mistake , as has been shewn above . and certainly , to take a false , doubtfull , unjust or unnecessary oath , is intrinsecè malum , or malum in se. . others have taken the oath , making beforehand a publick or private protestation , that they intended onely to swear thereby a meer civil allegeance ; and this way they pretended to secure their conscience . but in the like manner they might take the oath of supremacy , making a protestation beforehand , that they intended onely thereby to swear , that the king is protectour of the church , as all christian princes are ; and that to him , as such , does belong to take care , that the laws established by the church be observed in his kingdome ; and that the pope has no preeminency inconsistent with the aforesaid obligation of christian princes . . moreover , one might , in the same manner , take the communion of the protestants , making a protestation that he takes it onely as meer bread and wine , or for his breakfast ; and incense an idol too , protesting that he does it onely to perfume the room : all which are vast absurdities , as no catholick can deny . the reason is , because as long as an action is in it self unlawfull , or as long as it is doubtfull whether it be so or no , no previous protestation can make it lawfull . . in fine , some others of them will needs persuade themselves , that in the oath is denied onely a direct and absolute power , but not an indirect and conditionall power in the pope to depose kings . but how can this be credible , when both king iames , who had a great hand in framing the oath , and all other authours whatsoever , either catholicks or protestants , who have hitherto published books in defence of the oath , have unanimously understood , that therein was denied , not onely a direct , but an indirect power also in the pope to depose princes ? and it is not probable , that they would explicate their own opinion to any disadvantage or prejudice , and make it harder then really it is . . besides , they all impugn bellarmine , as the chief maintainer of the pope's deposing power , and as the greatest enemy to the oath ; and yet bellarmine as much as any other impugns the pope's direct power to deprive princes of their dominions : and it is not credible , that the maintainers of the oath would make themselves more adversaries then really they were , or make so famous a man as bellarmine their enemy , in a matter wherein he is their friend . moreover , the very cause for which the oath was framed does contain the deniall of an indirect power . for this oath was framed to deny the pope all power and authority to depose a king of england , or dispose of his dominions , or to absolve his subjects from their allegeance , even in case such a king should not onely be an heretick himself , but also force his subjects to be so , and the pope could not defend his flock otherwise then by deposing him . and what is this , but to deny an indirect power in the pope to depose kings ? neither do i think that there is , even amongst protestants , any divine or lawyer , who can deny but that the forementioned case is comprehended in the oath . . if they say , that should that clause of the oath be understood in the latitude pretended , even the protestants themselves , who take it , would be manifest perjurers . for they would swear , in taking this oath , that the pope is not sovereign temporall prince of rome ; since every supreme temporall prince has an indirect power to depose any other sovereign , as above has been expounded . and how is it credible , that protestants should frame such an oath , as no body ( protestant or catholick ) could take , without manifestly perjuring himself ? . to this i answer , that all catholicks must confess , that whoever takes the oath of supremacy does swear false ; and consequently , that those protestants who framed it , and took it , were manifest perjurers , and many of them without an invincible ignorance , viz. such as denied the supremacy of the pope in spiritualls ; as doubtless many of the first framers of that oath did . yea , severall protestants , and amongst the rest king iames , acknowledge the pope to be patriarch of the west , and that england appertains to the western patriarchate , and consequently , that the pope has some preeminency in england , in order to spiritualls ; for every patriarch has some preeminency in his whole patriarchate : and yet they swear positively , in the oath of supremacy , that no forrein prelate has , or ought to have , any preeminency within this realm ; and by consequence they swear false , even according to their own principles . . what wonder therefore is it , that protestants , out of indignation towards catholicks , should frame such an oath of allegeance , that even they themselves could not take without being perjured ? and the like is to be seen in all heterodox countries , where , out of hatred to the true religion , such things are often required of the professours thereof , that even the heterodox professours themselves cannot lawfully execute . besides , the test enacted the last year , . though levelled onely at catholicks , is notwithstanding such , that others , who are not roman catholicks , yea protestants of the english church , cannot comply with , if they understand the principles of their respective religions , and will stand to them : as may easily be made appear . . 't is therefore not to be wondered at , that men out of passion should over-doe things ; and that protestants , to the end they might be sure to frame such a test , that roman catholicks could not take , should frame such an one , and in such generall terms , that they themselves could not comply with : for their mind seems to have been so much bent to consider what roman catholicks could not swear , that they did not reflect what they themselves could swear . wherefore it would not be amiss , when they require us to take either the oath of supremacy or allegeance , or comply with the test enacted the last year , to shew them that they require of us what they themselves , even according to their own principles , cannot doe : whereby will easily appear the unreasonableness of their request . from the premisses hitherto set down , one may justly conclude , that the example of such catholicks who have taken the oath , as grounding themselves upon palpable mistakes and misinformations , cannot be a prudent motive for others to take it , nor a good argument to shew the lawfulness thereof . . concerning the authority of the ancient fathers , against the pope's power to depose princes , or to absolve their subjects from their allegeance ; consider , first , that though it should be granted , that the ancient fathers are against the forementioned power in the pope ; it does not therefore follow , that they are for this oath , but onely for one part thereof ; neither for that in such a degree , that one may positively swear it . consider , secondly , that to prove , that the ancient fathers and doctours deny the pope to have any power whatsoever , either by himself or by others , to depose princes , in any case imaginable , 't is necessary to prove , that they deny the pope any power whatsoever , to deprive a prince of civil communication with his subjects , by force of any excommunication whatsoever : or , in supposition there has been an agreement made between catholick princes , that if any one of them become an heretick , he should forfeit his kingdome , or be liable to be deposed by the rest , in case he refuses to recant , to declare any one of such princes an heretick , though really he be such : or , in case that a subject , or subjects , cannot live under an hereticall prince , and persecutour of the true church , without imminent danger of being perverted , and consequently is , or are , bound by the law of god and nature , to withdraw themselves ; to declare , i say , in such a case , that he , or they , are bound to withdraw , and to oblige them to it . for those who assert the pope's deposing power , expound it in one of these three ways ; which many do not seem to understand . therefore it would not be amiss to ask them who deny the pope any power to depose princes , what they mean by a power to depose princes . . consider , thirdly , whether bellarmine , peron , suarez , and others who assert that power , do not alledge severall ancient councills and fathers for their opinion : and if so , what reason is there why we should not think , that they , being persons so eminent in doctrine and erudition , did not understand them as well as withrington , caron , or peter walsh ; especially , since most of the modern divines and canonists , having seen what both parties do produce out of antiquity in their favour , are for the affirmative ? and had i time , i could lay open the gross mistakes committed by caron in the quotation of ancient authours for his opinion . . consider , fourthly , whether it would avail a man in a suit of law , to pretend , that the ancient lawyers are on his side , after that the modern judges and lawyers , or the far greatest part of them , having heard what he could say for himself , had determined the contrary : and if not , apply the same to our present case . . consider , fifthly , whether those ancient fathers , which the maintainers of the oath alledge , may not be understood to speak onely of a direct power in the pope to depose princes : and if so , whether they can prejudice the opinion which onely allows him an indirect power . or , whether they may not be understood to deny onely , that the pope , as pope , ( for as such he has no temporall dominions , nor temporall sovereignty , ) cannot compell any prince , by his own temporall forces , to quit his kingdome : and if so , the authority of such fathers cannot be prejudiciall to the opinion , which affirms that the pope , having declared a prince an heretick , and a persecuter of the church , may invoke the help of catholick kings , and authorize them to compell such a prince , by force of their arms , to desist from persecuting his subjects , and , in case of refusall , to depose him . . consider , sixthly , whether ancient fathers are to be alledged for an opinion , after it has been condemned by the church , or the pope , as this oath severall times has been : as , for instance , whether it be now a sufficient motive to affirm , that children baptized by hereticks are to be re-baptized , because st. cyprian was of that opinion before the contrary was defined . . consider , lastly , whether it be not the unanimous consent of the ancient fathers , that we are bound to afford at least an exteriour obedience to the pope's express commands , in matters appertaining unto him , if the compliance with them be not manifestly sinfull ▪ as the forbearance of this oath ( which is the thing onely required of us by the pope in the above-mentioned briefs ) is not : and whether there be not severall things contained in this oath , the decision whereof , according to the common sentiment of the ancient fathers , does appertain to the ecclesiasticall court , whose head the pope is . . concerning the probability of the opinion , that asserts the lawfulness of this oath ; consider , first , whether an express declaration or prohibition of the church , or pope , does not render the thing prohibited practically improbable , or the lawfulness of the practice thereof improbable ; though the thing in it self , and prescinding from such a prohibition , be probably or certainly lawfull . as prescinding from the prohibition of the church , 't is as lawfull to eat flesh upon fridays as upon any other days of the week : yet this is improbable , practically speaking , supposing such a prohibition . and if this be so , consider farther , whether , since the pope ( to whose orders we owe at least an exteriour obedience ) has prohibited us , by severall briefs , to take this oath , it be not practically improbable , that it is lawfull to take it ; though we should grant , that the oath , prescinding from such a prohibition or declaration , is in it self , and speculatively speaking , probable : as severall hidden mysteries of our faith , prescinding from the declaration or definition of the church , do seem probably otherwise . . consider , secondly , that it is not probable , nor credible , that the maintainers of the oath would have made ( as they did ) their application to the pope , to the end he might give sentence of the lawfulness thereof , and whether it did contain any thing contrary to faith , or not , had they not been persuaded , that the decision of these matters did appertain to the pope . and if so , that it was very ridiculous for them to make any such application to the pope for the decision of these matters , or to refer themselves to the pope's judgment , if they were resolved not to submit , even exteriourly , to his judgment , in case he should give sentence against them , as he did : and consequently , we cannot probably presume they had any such resolution . so that , unless they will condemn their own proceedings in this matter , ( which 't is not probable they will do , ) they must needs confess themselves bound to afford at least an exteriour obedience to the pope's briefs concerning this matter , till they be lawfully repealed . . consider , thirdly , whether the same exceptions which they make against the pope's briefs , and his proceedings in this matter , viz. that he was misinformed ; that the pope's briefs are here in england of no force , without the approbation of the king , who , as things now stand , does acknowledge no spirituall power in the pope over his realm , and consequently , will not approve any thing that comes from him , in order to the direction of his subjects , whether favourable , or not favourable unto him ; that the pope is fallible , and inferiour to a generall councill ; and other exceptions mentioned above ; whether ( i say ) the same exceptions might not have been made by us , in case the pope had given sentence for them , and against us , and had commanded all to take the oath , when they should be required thereunto by his majesty : and whether our adversaries do think , that such exceptions , made by us in that case against the pope's sentence , could have justified our refusall of the oath , or our disobedience to the pope's express commands . or what would they have said of us , should we have persisted still to urge the same reasons , and the authority of so many doctours , against the lawfulness of the oath , after it had been declared lawfull by the pope ; and upon that account , and under pretence of probability , should have still refused the oath ? i am confident , that they will not confess , that such proceedings of ours in that case , though they be the very same which now they make use of , would have been justifiable . . consider , fourthly , that the maxime they make so much account of in this great debate , viz. in dubiis melior est conditio possidentis , ( in doubtfull matters better is the condition of him that possesses , ) and consequently , that no body can be lawfully dispossess'd of what he has , upon a meer probable opinion , is insignificant in our present case . for it is to be understood , as our adversaries also understand it , as long onely as the matter under debate has not been decided by a lawfull judge . now the unlawfulness of this oath , which is the main point under debate , has been , severall times , decided by the pope , to whom even our adversaries refer the decision of this matter . neither does the pope decide , in the above-mentioned briefs , ( as the opponents would needs suppose , ) that he has authority to depose kings , which is the thing our adversaries say is under debate ; but onely prohibits us to swear , that he has not any such authority , or hinders the king from deciding it in his own favour : and every one has right , as long as the thing is under debate between him and another , to hinder his adversary from deciding it on his side . . consider , fifthly , whether meer indirect power in the pope to depose princes , such as is in every king to depose any other sovereign , be inconsistent with the sovereignty of princes , or whether it does dispossess them actually thereof . if not , then to admit such a power in the pope , ( as some do , ) is not to admit any thing which does actually dispossess kings of their temporall sovereignty . . consider , sixthly , whether , according to the severall precedents alledged by such authours who assert the aforementioned power in the pope , and assented unto , as to matters of fact , by their adversaries , popes have not exercised such a power many years agoe : and consequently , whether the popes have not possession of such a power , ( just or not just i do not decide : ) for one takes possession of a power by exercising its acts. so that the debate which remains , is not , whether the pope has possession of such a power , or not ; but onely , whether he has a just possession thereof , or onely an usurp'd : and consequently , according to the maxime produced by our adversaries , in dubiis melior est conditio possidentis , the pope ought not to be deprived of such a power , till the matter be lawfully decided against him . and to oblige men to swear positively that he has no such power , is , in a certain manner , to deprive him thereof , and to oblige men to swear positively a doubtfull thing . . consider , lastly , that though it be probable , that one cannot wage war , or deprive any one of what he possesses , upon the account of a meer probable opinion ; whether this be so certain , ( since grave authours are of the contrary sentiment , ) that we may positively swear , that no body , who has onely a probable opinion on his side , can lawfully dispossess another of what actually he has . . concerning the interest of those who impugn the oath , objected in the last place against us ; consider , first , whether it be not as probable at least , that those who defend the oath , and deny the pope all power whatsoever to depose princes , are flatterers of princes , and sycophants of temporall courts , as that those who are of the contrary perswasion are flatterers of the pope , and sycophants of the spirituall court : and whether ( morally speaking ) it be not impossible , that where the matter under debate is of so vast an extent , as supremacy in spiritualls , and supremacy in temporalls , there should not be some prospect of interest , of whatsoever side we be , either from the pope , if one defends the negative , that the oath is not lawfull , or from the king , if one maintains the affirmative , that it is lawfull : and consequently , whether , were this exception equitable , one ought to hearken to either side . . consider , secondly , whether roman catholicks ( his m●jestie's subjects ) do not depend more of the king , and civill government , in order to their interest and preferment , then of the pope , and roman court : or whether those who impugn the oath , may not fear more dammages from the civill government , then those who defend it , from the ecclesiasticall : or , finally , whether the latter may not hope to obtain greater advantages from his majesty by defending the oath , then the former from his holiness by impugning it . those who defend the oath aim , or may aim , at some particular priviledges , or exemptions , to be granted them , upon that account , from the civill government . neither do i see what dammages they can fear from the pope , by defending the oath . for though , perhaps , the pope may excommunicate some of them upon that score ; yet an unjust excommunication does not any harm : and the defenders of the oath are persuaded , that such an excommunication would be unjust , and not to be taken notice of . on the other side , those english catholicks who impugn the oath , may fear lest the penalties be put in execution against them upon that account ; which , whether justly , or unjustly executed , do in effect equally prejudice . and what such catholicks can hope for from the pope , i see not ; since there is no temporall nor ecclesiasticall preferment here in england to which , in the present conjuncture of affairs , his holiness can promote them . and if this be so , then , upon the account of dependency , we ought rather to suspect those who defend the oath , then those who impugn it . . consider , thirdly , whether some of those priests who have shewn themselves most forward to defend the oath , have not received considerable pensions , and sums of money , to print their books relating to this subject , from protestant persons of quality , either clergy-men or lay-men , or both ; and whether they have not been countenanced and caressed by them upon that score . and that this has happened , we can make appear . moreover , whether they can produce any precedents of english priests , who have received the like summs of money , or incouragement , from the pope , for opposing the oath . and if not , then , considering the event that this debate has had hitherto , we must conclude , that the defenders of this oath have got more then the opposers thereof . . and here i cannot but reflect upon what is related of some of our protestant prelates , who , being noted that they kept familiar correspondency with some roman priests , and encouraged them in their designs , answered , that they did it to breed a schism among roman catholicks , thereby the better to destroy them . prynne , in his canterbury doom , pag. . saies , that archbishop lawd , being accused , that he conversed familiarly with some priests , answered , king iames had conference with , and extended favours to some priests , making good use thereof , to set them at variance among themselves , and induce them to write one against another ; as watson and preston , who wrote divers books in defence of the oath of allegeance , and did good service therein . whereupon my predecessour , archbishop abbott , granted preston a kind of protection under his hand and seal . ibid. lawd granted also preston a protection under his hand . fuller , in his church-history , in the life of king iames , saies thus : doctour bancroft afforded the seculars countenance and maintenance in london-house , accommodating them with necessaries , to write against their adversaries , ( viz. the iesuits , ) hoping that the protestants might assault the romish cause with more advantage , when they found a breach made to their hands by the others own dissensions . where i cannot but note , that as concerning the present point we speak of , the protestants countenanced the priests who defended the oath , as preston , the chief among them , and not those priests who opposed it . whence appears , that protestants are of opinion , that the defenders of the oath are against the church of rome , but not the opposers thereof , since they joyn with the former , and not with the latter ; and sure , they would joyn with the enemies of our church , according to their opinion , and not with her friends . . consider , lastly , that those who are most blamed for opposing the lawfulness of the oath are less liable to any suspicion of pretence , or interest , in this matter , since they are tied by a particular vow , not to pretend , neither directly nor indirectly , any preferment or dignity : besides , they have been particularly prohibited by their general , who resides at rome , under pain of excommunication , either to preach , or teach , in publick disputes or books , that the pope has any power to depose kings : the like prohibition , for ought i know , being not imposed upon any other religious order . and whatsoever heretofore some of them have taught concerning this subject , 't is certain , what henry the fourth of france justified in a publick speech , that they taught nothing in this matter , which is not still taught , and has been taught before their society was in the world , by several learned men of other orders . i have proposed these considerations for the satisfaction of such catholicks who have a desire to be informed concerning the lawfulnesse or unlawfulnesse of this oath , to the end , that having perused them over , they may proceed , in a matter of so great concernment , with due consideration . for i have endeavoured to couch , in this short discourse , the main arguments on both sides . i believe that consciencious catholicks , who shall be pleased to peruse seriously the forementioned considerations , will have at least some rational reluctancy to take the oath , as it lies ; which is enough to render the taking thereof unlawfull ; since such as take it do swear , that they doe it heartily , that is , without any reluctancy of mind , but rather with a propension and inclination to take it : which certainly no body can lawfully swear , who feels a reluctancy of mind to any part of the oath . and to summe up the whole substance of this treatise : since it is certain , ( neither do our adversaries deny it , ) that it belongs to the pope , to decide whether this oath be unlawfull or not ; since the pope has determined severall times , that it is unlawfull , and has prohibited the taking thereof , as all do confesse ; since what our adversaries still urge , for the lawfulnesse of this oath in it self , has been long since proposed to the pope , and does concern the very thing , for the decision whereof even they refer themselves to the pope's judgment , with resolution to stand to his determination , otherwise why should they refer it to him ? since , finally , all the exceptions our adversaries make against the briefs , and the proceedings of the pope in framing of them , are frivolous , and such as would vacate ( were they of any force ) all briefs whatsoever , issued forth by popes , and which even they themselves would not have allowed us to make , in case the pope had given the contrary sentence ; since ( i say ) all this is so , as does manifestly appear , by what has hitherto been set down : i conclude , that our adversaries are destitute of all rationall motives , whereby to justify their disobedience to the forementioned briefs ; and that nothing but ignorance or obstinacy can move them to stand out . the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e supplicatio ad clem. x. per francisc simonis mogunt . a.d. . quis nesciat , reges & duces ab iis habuisse principium , qui , deum ignorantes , superbiâ , rapinis , perfidiâ , homicidiis , postremò universis penè sceleribus , ( mundi principe , diabolo viz. agitante , ) super pares , sc. homines , dominari caecâ cupiditate , & intolerabili praesumptione , affectaverunt ? greg. vii . l. . ep . . pag. . an apologie in defence of ecclesiastical subordination in england , pag. . col . . rog. widdrington supplicat . ad paul. . p. . de justa abdicatione henrici tertii è francorum regno . lugd. a. . l. . à c. . ad c. . * à c. . ad c. . l. . c. . ad c. . lib. . c. . de justa reip. christianae in reges impios & haereticos authoritate . antw. a.d. . responce de vrays catholiques francois à l'advertisement des catholiques anglois pour l'exclusion du roy de navarre de la couronne de france . a. d. . iuramentum populi non eum astringit ad obediendum regi , nisi rex legitimè & christianè imperet . rossae . c. . n. . p. . c. . n. . p. . c. . n. . apologie catholique , &c. part . . p. , . a. . c. . n. . c. . de rege haeretico excommunicando . pi●s . de script . angl. a. . de justa abdicat . henr. . l. . c. . catholick apology p. . a moderate defence of the oath of allegeance ▪ a. . p. . p. . illud unum sciant reges , nihil magìs cordi esse pontifici & ejus asseclis , quàm ut regiam potestatem vilem reddánt , infirmam , imbecillem & abjectam . ortel . error . suarez . c. . n. . th. graswinckel , dissertat . de praelud . justit . & juris , pag. . suarez de legibus l. . c. . n. . , &c. azor. instit . moral . l. . c. . dub . . aqu. . . q. . art . . . . q. . art . . cajetan . in . . q. . art . . in juramentis oportet respicere ad praejudicium hominis cui factum est , & in cujus favorem factum est . id. ib. maldonat . summul . qu. . art . . q. . art . . enimvero quamvìs papa dispensare valeat in voto , quod est majus , non tamen in iuramento , quod est minus . haud enim relaxare potest iuramentum quod homo homini pr●stitit , id solvendi quod ei debeat . soto de iustit . & jure l. . q. . art . . quando autem est juramentum in alicujus tertii utilitatem ▪ non potest absque voluntate tertii etiam à papa dispensari ; sicut nec papa potest auferre rem alterius . tolet. summa casuum l. c. . n. . clavis regia cas. consc. l. . c. . n. . azor. instit . mor. l. . c. . quartò quaeritur . widdrington disp. theolog. c. . sect . . n. , , . theolog. moral . l. . tr . . c. . n. . de justa abdicat . henr. . l. . c. . n. . c. . p. , . c. . p. , , &c. c. , , . ross. de justa reip. christian. author . in reges impios & haeret . c. . n. . pag. , . n. . p. . de rom. pontif. l. . c. . tertia ratio . first treatise , p. . pag. . pag. . pag. , , . pag. . pag. . cathol . apology , pag. , . pag. . treat . . p. . pag. . pag. . first treatise , p. . second treat . p. ▪ pag. . pag. . summa cas. lib. . c. . n. . suarez de virtut . relig . to. . tract . . l. . c. . n. . l. . c. . n. . soto de justit . & jure l. . quaest . . art . . concl . . iacob . de graffiis decis . aure . l. . c. . n. . sayr clav. reg. lib. . c. . n. . greg. de valentia tom. . diss. . quaest . . punct . . vasquez . . disp. . c. . layman theol. mor. l. . tr . . c. . n. , . legatio de concept . virg. mariae tract . . third treatise par . . & . wadding p. . third treatise , p. , &c. warmington's moderate defence , pag. . widdrington advers . schulken . p. , &c. reflections on the oaths of supremacy and allegeance , n. . third treatise par . . reflections on the oaths of supremacy and allegeance , n. . first treatise , p. . second treatise , pag. . third treat . p. . third treat . p. . notes for div a -e vir in sacris literis eruditissimus , & in tota ecclesia omni virtutum genere celeberrimus . lambertus , a writer of that age. nos s. r. e. cardinales elegimus nobis in pastorem , virum religiosum , geminae scientiae prudentiâ pollentem , aequitatis & justitiae praestantissimum amatorem , bonis moribus ornatum , &c. registr . greg. . in init . b gratiâ miraculorum , & prophetiae , erat omnibus admirabilis . binius in vit. greg. . eundem , sicut in vita , ità & post mortem claruisse miraculis , bibliothecarius ejus temporis absque ulla dubitatione confirmat . baron . ad ann . . n. . in album sanctorum relatus , universali memoriâ nomine celebri perseverat . id. ib. c aut rex ipse , repudiato turpi simoniacae haereseos mercimonio , &c. aut franci pro certo ( nisi fidem christianam abjicere maluerint ) generalis anathematis mucrone percussi , illi ulteriùs obtemperare recusabunt . greg. . l. . ep . . si in perversitate studiorum suorum perseveraverit , nos in romana synodo , à corp●re s. ecclesiae ipsum , & omnes quicunque sibi regalèm honorem vel obedientiam exhibuerint , sine dubio sequestrabimus . id. l. . ep . . d significâsti nobis per literas & legatos tuos , te b. petro devotè ac decenter velle obedire , &c. id. l. . ep . . pontifex habito cum episcopis consilio , in eundem regem excommunicationis sententiam protulit . author vit. s. ansel. luc. a writer of that age. cunctis qui convenerant episcopis id fieri decernentibus , regem excommunicat . lambert . cunctis acclamantibus nè talis contumelia inulta remaneret , omnium consilio & consensu , henricum , synodali judicio damnatum , regísque honore & nomine privatum , anathematis gladio percussit . bruno histor. belli saxon ▪ a writer of that age. b henrico regi omnem potestatem & dignitatem regiam tollo , totiúsque regni teutonicorum & italiae gubernacula contradico ; & omnes christianos à vinculo juramenti quod sibi fecère absolvo . greg. . l. . ep . . c b. petre , mihi tuâ gratiâ est potestas à deo data ligandi atque solvendi in coelo & in terra . hâc itaque fiduciâ fretus , ex parte omnipotentis dei , patris , & filii , & spiritûs sancti , per tuam , b. petre , potestatem & authoritatem , henrico regi , &c. ut suprá . a greg. . l. . ep . . b baron . ad ann . . n. . & ad ann . . n. , &c. c triburiense , quintiliniburgense , ostionense , claromontanum , roman . . . . d victor iii. urbanus iii. paschalis ii. * adversarii nostri , quamvìs ipsi exiverint à nobis , non nos ab ipsis , tamen dicere solent , nos catholici sumus , nos in vnitate ecclesiae sumus . vnde scriptor illius epistolae appellat eos qui sunt in parte sui gregorii , catholicos ; nos , schismaticos , haereticos , & excommunicatos . vercellens . de unit. eccles. a bishop of the king's party . hoc decretum ( synodi quintiliniburg . ) contra henricianos , qui fideles s. petri ( meaning the catholicks ) constringere voluerunt , ut excommunicationem d. papae unà cum illis retractare praesumerent . bertold . a writer of that age. f me quoque quem sanctorum patrum traditio soli deo judicandum docuit , nec pro aliquo crimine , nisi à fide ( quod absit ) exorbitaverim , deponendum censuit , &c. epist. henr. . ad greg. . set out by a protestant , in fascic . rerum expetendarum . g imperatorem , ( so his own party called him ) in nulla synodo canonicè accusatum , praecipitanter excommunicavit ; in qua excommunicatione nullus cardinalium subscripsit , &c. beno de vit. hildebrand . in the aforesaid fasciculus . h eodem anno , ( . ) condicto , tam ab inimicis quàm amicis imperatoris , alloquio , in thuringia , conveniebant ex utraque parte quicunque sapientissimi de optimatibus judicabantur , canonum authoritate probaturi , cui parti justitia faveret ; imperatore tamen absente ; sic enim ipse consensit . electis , hinc wecilone moguntino , illinc gebehardo saltzburgensi , disputatio coepta est . affirmat gebehardus , ( proponente hoc priùs wecilone ) imperatorem non injusto judicio , tam regno , quàm communione , apostolici sententiâ , privatum . e contrà wecilo , dominum suum , praejudicium non minùs à papa quàm à principibus passum , contendit , dum ipso ad canusium in satisfactione posito , imò jam à papa in communionem recepto , alterum super se regem elevarent . adjecit etiam , quòd imperator , diu jam à saxonia depulsus , & regnandi copiâ , etiam ab illa dissensione quae ante podolphum facta describitur , spoliatus , nec vocari , nec judicari canonicè debuisset , &c. ursperg . ad ann . . a dictatus papae , in concil . roman . . ann . . . quòd papae liceat imperatorem deponere . . quòd à fidelitate iniquorum subditos potest absolvere . b quod postulâsti , te nostris scriptis quasi juvari , & communiri , &c. non adeò necessarium nobis videtur , cùm hujus rei tam multa ac certissima documenta in sacrarum literarum paginis reperiantur , &c. citing the scriptures . l. . ep . . eos qui dicunt , regem non oportet excommunicari , &c. ad sanctorum patrum dicta vel facta mittimus . legant itaque , &c. considerent cur zacharias papa regem francorum deposuerit , & omnes francigenas à vinculo juramenti quod sibi fecerant absolverit . in registro b. gregorii , &c. l. . ep . . c b. petri authoritate , ei ( henrico regi ) resistite , & totius regni gubernacula contradicendo , &c. illud semper habentes in memoria , quia scelus idololatriae committit , qui apostolicae sedi obedire contemnit . l. . ep . . contra eorum insaniam , qui nefando ore garriunt , authoritatem apostolicae sedis non potuisse regem henricum excommunicare , nec quenquam à sacramento fidelitatis ejus absolvere ...... neque enim credimus eos , qui , ad cumulum suae damnationis , veritati impudenter de●rahunt & contradicunt , haec ad suae defensionis audaciam , tam ignorantiâ , quàm miserae desperationis vecordiâ , coaptâsse . id. ibid. eos qui dicunt , regem non oportet excommunicari , licèt pro magna fatuitate , nec etiam eis respondere debeamus ; tamen nè impatienter eorum insipientiam praeteriisse videamur , &c. l. . ep . . si b. gregorius , doctor utique mitissimus , reges qui statuta sua super unum xenodochium violarent , non modò deponi , sed etiam excommunicari , atque in aeterno examine damnari decrevit : quis nos , ipsius matris ecclesiae , quantum in ipso est , conculcatorem , deposuisse & excommunicâsse reprehendat , nisi fortè similis ejus ? l. . ep . . a moneantur seculi potestates , &c. si verò dominus temporalis requisitus , & monitus ab ecclesia , terram suam purgare neglexerit ab hac haeretica faeditate , per metropolitanum & comprovinciales episcopos excommunicationis vinculo innodeturm , et si satisfacere contempserit infra annum , significetur hoc summo pontifici , ut extunc ipse vasallos ab ejus fidelitate denunciet absolutos , & terram exponat catholicis occupandam , qui eam , exterminatis haereticis , sine ulla contradictione possideant ; salvo jure domini principalis , dummodo super hoc ipse nullum praestet obstaculum . eâdem nihilominus lege servatâ circa eos qui non habent dominos principales . cap. . de haeret. mitto decreta concilii lateranensis olim ex antiquo descripta codice . jo. co●hl . ep . ante concil , lateran . ap . crab. nos cum fratribus nostris & sacro concilio deliberatione praehabitâ diligenti , cùm jesu christi vices teneamus in terris , nobisque in b. petri persona sit dictum , quodcunque solveris , &c. memoratum principem , suis ligatum peccatis , & abjectum , omnique honore & dignitate privatum à domino ostendimus , denunciamus , ac nihilominus sententiando privamus : omnes qui ei juramento fidelitatis tenentur astricti , à juramento hujusmodi perpetuò absolventes : authoritate apostolicâ sirmiter inhibe●d● , nè quisquam ei de caetero tanquam imperatori vel regi pareat ; & decernendo quoslibet , qui deinceps ei velut imperatori aut regi consilium aut auxilium praestilerint , ipso facto excommunicationis vinculo subjacere , &c. in actis concil . b matth. paris . in henrico . c video quòd ad confusionem meam aspirat papa , ..... nec sacrum decet imperium maximè adversanti judicio sisti synodali . id. ibid. d id. ibid. * id. ibid. f trithem . in chron. hirsang . g matth. paris . in henrico . h paul. aemil . in vit. s. ludov. i in . cap. . de homicid . * as he speaks . † in his preface . * page . page . * trithemius in chron. historic . ad ann . . * magister in . dist . . en. ann . . s. thom. † s. aug. lib. de mendacio . * pag. . second controversial letter , pag. . towards the end of his large preface . vide articulos facultatis parisiensis de authoritate pontificia & regia , art. . * this book was printed in an . . and called the new-year's gift , or , a brief and clear explication of the oath of allegeance . † withringt . in apol. n. . and in his other books very often . also c. i. in his explication of the oath of allegeance , p. . canon de papa , distinct. . synod . . act . . bellarm. de rom. pont . l. . c. . * printed at london . s. thomas . . qu. . ar . . history of the irish remonstrance first part of the first treatise , . . the publisher of the questions in his preface to the authour himself , pag. . and the protestant in the . controversial letter . h. . . * pag. . see the censure it self , and first cont. letter , pag. . so speaks the decree itself . io. barkley in his vindiciae , pag. . this the publisher of the questions observes . the account of the iesuits life and doctrine , pag. . so onuphrius mentions him , lib. . devaria creat . rom. pont. see chap. . * vide aliud breve paul. v. ad d. georg. birket . febr. . aliud urban . viii . ad regem galliae . maii . & aliud ejusdem pontis . eodem die & anno ad episcop . chalcedonensem . † supplic . to paul v. p. . . vide etiam supplic . thom. prestoni & thom. greeni ad greg. xv. * sententia papae obligat ad non dogmatizandum contrarium . gers. tract . de exam . doctrin . consid . . vide duvall . in elencho , pag. . † hujusmodi iuramentum salvâ fide catholicâ & saluteanima . rum vestrarum praestari non potest ; cùm multa contineat quae fidei & saluti apertè adversantur . paul. v. . brev. urban . viii . vocat iuramentum noxium & illicitum , & addit , authoritatem b. petri eâ jurisjurandi formulâ imminui . excommunicantur in bulla coenae qui subterfugiunt judicium papae , appellando ad concilium generale . vide synod . general . . can. . ubi damnat origenem aliòsque , cum suis scriptis , nullò particulari errore nominato . append. ad prop. theolog . de jurament . fidelitatis , initio . vide gloss. cap. cum venissent . de judiciis . * suar. ait , lib. de leg . c. . n. . nulla est data determinata forma verborum in legibus canonic's ferendis , vel jure divino vel ecclesiastico . malosjudices se esse perpessos , vox est omnium malorum litigatorum , etiam cùm manifestissimâ fuerint veritate convicti . aug. epist. . * anno . ‖ quoted in the reflexion upon the oath , pag. . † de hoc articulo ait gallic . eccles . in illis comitiis , non aliò tendere quàm ad schisma conflandum , & corroborandum haeresin . mercur. gall. tom. . ann. . p. , . * rex , silentio imposito , articulum inseri codicillis vetuit . nobilitas clero consentit . id. pag. . in convent . episc. gall. habito . febr. . damnatus est ille articulus : subscripserunt card. archiep. episc. rochefoc . in ration . cont . schism . sect. . sect. . & mercur. gallic . ●om . . an. . p. . etiam major pars tertii ▪ ordinis articuli illius progressum impedivit . card. richelieu lib. cont . ministros calvinist . pag. . the university of louvaine is also against this oath , as appears by a censure they gave dec. . . anno ● . feb. facultas parisiensis hanc censuram , quoad formam & tenorem . revocavit , nec hactenus , quod sciam , aliam confecit . mercur. tom. . an. . pag. . vide etiam rochefoc . pag . in the year . plura circa iesuitas gall. quoad hanc rem vide apud mercur. jesuit . pag. . & mercur . gall. ann. . nec probant adversarii , iesuitas unquam subscripissè hanc prop. papa in nullo casu potest deponere regem . * vide duval . in elench . & decretum facult . sorbon . ad calcem magistri sentent . ubi dicitur , ad sanctam sedem apostolicam pertinet , authoritate judiciali supremâ circa ea quae sunt fidei judicialiter definire . paul v. commanded birket to take away their faculties from such priests as had taken the oath , or taught that it might be taken , unless they repented . item in the brief to the bishop of chalcedon the pope saies thus ; si quis aliter docuerit , ejus doctrina non è fontibus salvatoris , sed ex aegypti pu●eis hauritur . supplic . ad paul. v. pag. . append. pag. . respons . ad argum . suarez . cont . jurament . pag. . see caron , a great defender of the oath , in his apostolatus mission , printed at paris . q. . in canc. . q. . coroll . . & alibi , where he saies as much as bellarmine for the pope's deposing power . joan. . . matt. . . matt. . . act. cap. . marc. . . joan. . matt. . urban . . brev. ad reg . gall. air , iuramentum hoc totius ecclesiae pietas exsecratur . brev. ad epise . chalced . vocat illud abortum mendacii , & impietatis tesseram . paul. v. . brev. ait , non potestis absque evidentissima gravissimáque divini honoris injuria obligare vos hoc juramento . the grand question, concerning the bishops right to vote in parliament in cases capital stated and argued, from the parliament-rolls, and the history of former times : with an enquiry into their peerage, and the three estates in parliament. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the grand question, concerning the bishops right to vote in parliament in cases capital stated and argued, from the parliament-rolls, and the history of former times : with an enquiry into their peerage, and the three estates in parliament. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed for m.p., and sold by richard rumball ..., london : . reproduction of original in the university of illinois (urbana-champaign campus). library. attributed to edward stillingfleet. cf. nuc pre- . table of contents: p. [ ] created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng england and wales. -- parliament -- rules and practice. church of england -- bishops -- temporal power. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the grand question , concerning the bishops right to vote in parlament in cases capital , stated and argued , from the parlament-rolls , and the history of former times . with an enquiry into their peerage , and the three estates in parlament . london , printed for m. p. and sold by richard rumball book-binder , at the ball and coffin in the old change , . the contents . chap. i. the question stated ; and general prejudices removed . chap. ii. the right in point of law debated . concerning the constitution of clarendon , and the protestation . r. . chap. iii. the precedents on both sides laid down : those against the bishops examined and answered . chap. iv. the peerage of the bishops cleared ; how far they make a third estate in parlament . objections against it answered . chap. . the question stated ; and general prejudices removed . the question in debate , as it is stated by the authour of the letter , is , whether the bishops may be present and vote iudicially in capital cases , which come to be judged in parlament , either in giving the iudgment it self , or in resolving and determining any circumstance preparatory and leading to that iudgment ? for our better proceeding towards a resolution of this question , it will be necessary to take notice of some things granted on both sides , which may prevent needless disputes , and be of great use in the following debate . . it is granted , that the bishops do sit in parlament by virtue of their baronies , and are bound to serve the king there . and one part of the service due to the king there , is to sit in iudgment : for the authour of the book entitled , the iurisdiction of the house of peers asserted , proves at large , that the right of iudicature belongs to the barons in parlament ; and that the lords spiritual have a considerable share therein , appears by this passage , in the title-page of that book , translated into english. the iudgment of the lords spiritual and temporal is according to the vse and custom of parlament . the vse and custom of parlament is the law of parlament . the law of parlament is the law of england . the law of england is the law of the land. the law of the land is according to magna charta . therefore the iudgment of the lords spiritual and temporal is according to magna charta . some right then of iudicature in parlament the bishops have by magna charta : which , whatever it be , is as much theirs by that charter as any right of temporal persons ; and cannot be invaded or taken from them without breach of that charter , any more then the rights of the lords temporal , or of any other persons whatsoever . but how far that right doth extend , is now the thing in question . . it is not denied , that the bishops do sit in parlament by the same kind of writs that other barons do . they are summon'd to advise and debate about the great and difficult affairs of the kingdom ; cum praelatis , magnatibus & proceribus dicti regni nostri angliae colloquium habere & tractatum ; i. e. to joyn therein with the bishops and other lords of the kingdom . so that by the king 's writ of summons they are impower'd and requir'd to confer and treat of all the weighty affairs that shall be brought before them . and no instance is so much as offer'd to be produced of any writ wherein the king doth limit and restrain the bishops , any more then any other lords of parlament , as to any matter of consultation , or point of judicature , belonging to that house . they have then by their writ of summons as good right to sit in all cases , as in any : and since the other lords by their writs are summoned to advise with the prelates in all matters that shall come before them , without limitation , it is not to be conceived how this can be done , if the bishops in some of the most important debates be excluded . . it is yielded , that if the house proceeds in a legislative way by passing bills of attainder , the bishops have a right to sit and vote therein as well as other lords : at these it is said , that the bishops are or should be all present at the passing of them , for then they act as members of the house of lords in their legislative capacity . but men do as certainly die that are condemned in the legislative , as in the iudicial way . is not this then really as much a case of bloud as the other ? if the bishops should give their votes in the legislative way to condemn a person for treason , and yet think they had not voted in a case of bloud ; they would then indeed be like chaucer's frier , mention'd by the authour of the letter , that would have of a capon the liver , and of a pig the head , yet would that nothing for him should be dead . doth a bill of attainder cut of a man's head without making it a case of bloud ? there can be then no objection now made against the bishops right from any canons of the church ; for those allow no such distinction of proceeding in the legislative , or iudicial way . and the late authour of the peerage and iurisdiction of the lords spiritual doth grant , that the canons do prohibit the bishops voting in bills of attainder , as much as in any case whatsoever . but we are not to suppose a person of such abilities as the authour of the letter , would go about to exclude the bishops from their right of voting in a iudicial way in cases capital , unless there were some great appearance of law on his side ; because he professes so great a desire that right may prevail ; and that his design in writing was , to satisfy himself and others where that right is . the discovery whereof is our present business . yet before the authour of the letter comes to a close debate of the matter of right , he lets fall some general insinuations to create a prejudice in the reader 's mind , as to the bishops meddling at all in secular affairs , as though it were inconsistent with their function , and with some passages in the imperial law. and because men may sometimes doe more harm by what they tell us they will not say , then by what they do say ; it will be fit to prevent the danger of such insinuations , before we come to consider his arguments . . the first is , that meddling at all in secular affairs seems to be the doing that which the apostles declared they would not doe , viz. leave the word of god , and serve tables . but are all persons of estates now bound to part with them , as the christians then did ? the serving of tables was a full employment ; and they who attended that office were the treasurers of the church , to distribute to every one as they judged fit , out of the common stock . is it no service to god , to doe justice , and to shew mercy ? to attend upon the publick affairs of the kingdom , when they are called to it by their sovereign ? or are all bishops now in the same circumstances the apostles were when the christian church was to be planted in the world , and so few persons as the apostles made choice of for that work ? is there no difference to be made between a church constituted and settled and incorporated into the commonwealth , and one not yet formed , but labouring under great difficulties , and making its way through constant persecutions ? may it not be as well argued , that bishops are not to stay in one countrey , nor to have any fixed habitation , because the apostles passed from place to place preaching the word of god ? doth not the authour of the letter himself confesse , that the clergy are one of the three estates of the kingdom ? and by the act eliz. . the clergy are called one of the greatest states of this realm . and is there not then great reason , that those who are the chief part of it , as he confesseth the bishops to be , should have a share in affairs that concern the whole nation ? and would it not seem strange to the christian world , that we alone of all the kingdoms of europe should exclude the bishops from having an equal interest with the other estates in parlament ? for it were easy to prove from unquestionable testimonies , that as soon as the christian religion was well settled in any of these northern kingdoms , the bishops were admitted into all the publick councils : and have so continued to this day , where the convention of the estates hath been kept up ; bohemia onely excepted since the days of sigismond . i begin with france , where hincmarus saith , there were two great councils every year : one of the states of the kingdom , for ordering the affairs of the ensuing year , and redressing of grievances ; and in these the bishops were always present : and the other of the king's council , which managed the intervening affairs ; and into this the chief of the bishops were chosen . it were endless to repeat the several parlaments in france in the time of the merovingian and caroline race , wherein laws were passed , and the great affairs of the kingdom managed by the bishops , noblemen , and others . those who have looked into the ancient annals and capitulars of france , cannot be ignorant of this . there is one thing remarkable to our purpose in the famous council of frankford , which opposed the worship of images so stoutly , viz. that after the matters of religion were agreed , then , according to the custom of that age , the other estates being present , they proceeded to other matters : and then tassilo duke of bavaria was brought upon his knees for treason ; and the cause of peter bishop of verdun was heard , who was likewise accused of treason , and there purged himself . concerning both which cases there are canons still extant among the canons of that council : and in another , the bishops are appointed , by consent of the king , to doe justice in their several dioceses . and that they had not onely a share in the legislative , but in the iudiciary part , appears by one of the ancient formulae in marculphus , where it is said , that the king sate in judgment unà cum dominis & patribus nostris episcopis , vel cum plurimis optimatibus nostris ; ( vel , in the language of that age , is the same with & . ) this was the palatine court , where bignonius saith the greater causes were heard , the king himself being present , ( or the comes palatii , ) episcopis & proceribus adsidentibus , the bishops and lords sitting in iudicature together with him . and this was not onely the original of the parlament of paris , as a standing court of iudicature ; but the like in england was the true foundation of the supreme court of iudicature in the house of peers . so that in the eldest and best times of france , after christianity had prevailed there , neither consultation about publick affairs , nor administration of justice were thought inconsistent with the function of bishops . in spain , during the gothick power , all the great affairs of the kingdom , and even the rights of their princes , were debated and transacted by the greatest of the clergy and nobility together ; as may be seen in the several councils of toledo in that time , in the case of suintilas , sisenandus and others . and in one of them it is said , that after they had dispatched matters of religion , they proceeded ad caeterarum causarum negotia , to the handling of other causes . in the . council of toledo , the case of impeachments of treason is brought in ; and rules set down for due proceedings therein . and yet from one of these councils of toledo it is , that all the stir hath been made in the canon-law about bishops not being present in cases of bloud . in germany , the first laws that were ever published were those by lotharius ii. in comitiis regni , saith goldastus ; and there were present bishops , dukes , counts , besides the people . and by the matriculation-roll of the states of the empire , it appears what a great interest the clergy have preserved ther in from the first times of the prevalecy of christianity there . and arumaeus , a considerable protestant lawyer of the empire , saith , the bishops of germany sit in a double capacity in the diets , both as bishops , and as princes of the empire . and he commends the prudence of that constitution with respect both to iustice , and the honour and safety of religion . for the kingdom of bohemia , goldastus , a learned protestant , saith , that there , as in all other well-constituted kingdoms among christians , there were estates , of prelats , nobles , and commons ; and this continued , he saith , from the time christianity was received , till the days of sigismond . no sooner was christianity received in hungary , but their princes , stephanus and ladislaus , called their great councils of their prelats and nobles : and the laws made in the concilium zabolchianum were passed by the king , with all his bishops and nobles , and with the consent of the whole clergy and people . in poland , starovolscius saith , that their ancestours , after they received christianity , out of regard to religion , gave the bishops the first place in the senate ; and admitted the clergy to the great offices of the kingdom . and sigismond in his constitution saith , the states of poland consist of the bishops , barons , and delegates , called nuntii terrestres . in the northern kingdoms , adamus bremensis saith , that the bishops , after the people received christianity , were receiv'd into their publick councils . and loccenius reckons up among the several estates , the bishops , nobles , knights , and deputies of the country and cities . and it appears by the hirdstraa , or the ancient laws of norway , the bishops as well as nobility were present in the convention of the states , and all publick councils . the like might be proved here in the saxon times , from the conversion of ethelbert downward . this is so very evident , that he must blind his eyes that doth not see it , if he doth but cast them on the history of those times . these things i have laid together with all possible brevity and clearness , that in one view we may see a consent of all these parts of the christian world , in calling bishops to their publick councils , and most solemn debates ; and how far they were from thinking such imployments inconsistent with their sacred function , and charging them , that thereby they left the word of god to serve tables . neither can this be looked on as any part of the degeneracy of the church , or the policy of the papacy ; since , as the fore-cited arumaeus saith , they were admitted to this honour before the papal power was advanced ; and were so far from carrying on the pope's designs , that they were , in most countries , the greatest opposers of them . and when the popes began to set up their monarchy , their business was , to draw them off from meeting in these councils , under several pretences of cases of bloud , and other things ; the better to keep them in a sole dependency on themselves . as will appear by the following discourse . . the next thing suggested is , that the imperial law doth forbid clergy-men having any thing to doe with secular matters . and for this a rescript of honorius and theodosius is mentioned , and a decree of iustinian . to which i answer , . the imperial edicts are not the law of england . our dispute is about a right by our own laws ; which a rescript of honorius and theodosius can neither give nor take away . what would become of the whole frame of our government , and of our just rights and properties , if the producing of imperial edicts would be sufficient to overthrow them ? when the bishops once pleaded hard in parlament in behalf of an imperial constitution , lately adopted into the canon-law , the answer given by all the temporal lords was , nolumus leges angliae mutare , quae huc usque usitatae sunt & approbatae . they did not mean , they would make no alterations in parlament , for that very parlament did so in several things : but their meaning was , as mr. selden observes , that they owned neither canon nor imperial laws here , any farther then they were agreeable to the laws of the land. . the imperial constitutions do give liberty to church-men to have to doe in secular affairs . the emperour constantine , whose constitutions deserve as great regard as those of honorius and theodosius , to shew his respect to the christian religion , permitted all men to bring their causes before the bishops , without ever going to the other tribunals , as sozomen , a lawyer of constantinople , relates . and this is the true foundation of the constitution de episcopali iudicio ; as gothofred confesseth . which is at large inserted into the capitulars , with a more then usual introduction ; and made a law to all the subjects of the empire , franks , saxons , lombards , britons , &c. and therefore is more considerable to these parts then a bare rescript of honorius and theodosius . and yet , these very emperours , in a constitution of theirs , do so far ratifie the judgment of bishops upon trial by consent before them , that no appeal doth lie from their decree . what rescript then is this of theirs which so utterly forbids clegy-men having any thing to doe with publick functions , or things appertaining to the court ? i suppose that constitution of honorius is meant , which confines the bishops power to what concerns religion ; and leaves other causes to the ordinary judges and the course of law. but two things are well observed by iac. gothofred concerning this rescript of honorius : . that it is meant of absolute and peremptory judgment without appeal ; . that whatever is meant by it , not many years after , this constitution was repealed by honorius himself , and the bishops sentence made as absolute as before . so that honorius is clearly against him , if a man's second judgment and thoughts be better . . the practice of the best men in those ages shews , that they thought no law in force to forbid church-men to meddle in secular affairs : as might be at large proved from the practice of gregory thaumaturgus and s. basil in the east ; of silvanus bishop of troas , of s. ambrose , s. augustine , and others of the greatest and most devout church-men of those times . and s. augustine was so far from thinking it unlawfull , that in his opinion s. paul commanded the bishops to doe it . constituit enim talibus causis ecclesiasticos apostolus cognitores . and the learned gothofred of geneva saith , mos hic frequens & legitimus eundi ad iudices episcopos . it was then a common and legal practice to go to bishops as to their iudges . which would never have been , if there had been a law in force to forbid bishops meddling in secular affairs . . the emperours still reserved to themselves the power of dispensing with their own rescripts , and the canons of the church . therefore the council of sardica , when it prohibits bishops going to court , excepts the princes calling them thither . upon which balsamon hath this note ; that although the canons prohibit , yet if the emperour commands , the bishops are bound to obey , and to doe what he commands them ; without any fault either in the emperour or them . and in other places he asserts the emperour's power of dispensing with the strictest canons against church-mens meddling in secular affairs : thence he saith , the metropolitan of side was chief minister of state under michael ducas ; and the bishop of neocaesarea made the laws of the admiralty for greece . and the glosse upon iustinian's novells observes , that bishops may meddle with the affairs of the commonwealth , when their prince calls them to it . and this is the present case ; for the bishops are summon'd by the king 's writ to serve him in the publick council of the nation : and therefore no imperial rescript , if it were of force in england , could have any in this case , which was allowed by the imperial laws themselves . . there is a great mistake about iustinian's decree . for the bishops are not so much as mention'd in it ; but the defensores ecclesiarum ; who were lawyers , or advocates of the church : as appears by a constitution of honorius ; where gothofred proves they were not so much as in orders . it is true , iustinian doth appropriate the probat of wills to the master of his revenue ; but the law and custom of england , as lindwood observes , hath alter'd that constitution : and which must we regard more , iustinian , or our own laws ? i find one thing more suggested by way of prejudice to the cause in hand , viz. the common law of england , which hath provided a writ upon a clergy-man's being chosen an officer in a mannor , saying it was contra legem & consuetudinem regni , & non consonum . the argument had been altogether as good , if it had been taken from a minister of a parish not being capable of the office of constable ; and it had as effectually proved that clergy-men ought not to meddle in secular affairs . chap. ii. the right in point of law debated . concerning the constitution of clarendon , and the protestation r. . having removed these general prejudices , i now come to debate more closely the main point . for the authour of the letter undertakes to prove , that bishops cannot by law give votes in capital cases in parlament . which he doth two ways : . by statute-law ; . by use and custome , which he saith is parlament-law : and for this he produceth many precedents . i. for statute-law ; two ratifications , he saith , there have been of it in parlament ; by the constitutions of clarendon , and the r. . . the constitutions of clarendon ; which he looks on as the more considerable , because they were not the enacting of new laws , but a declaration of what was before . and for the same reason i value them too , and shall be content this cause stand or fall by them . the constitution in debate is the th , which is thus repeated and translated in the letter . archiepiscopi , episcopi , & universae personae regni qui de rege tenent in capite , habeant possessiones suas de rege , sicut baroniam , & inde respondeant iusticiariis & ministris regis , & sequantur & faciant omnes consuetudines regias : et sicut ceteri barones , debent interesse judiciis curie regis , quousque perveniatur ad diminutionem membrorum , vel ad mortem . the archbishops , bishops , and all the dignified clergy of the land that hold of the king in capite , shall hold their possessions from the king , as a barony , and answer for their estates unto the king's iustices and ministers , and shall observe and obey all the king's laws : and together with the other barons , they are to be present at all iudgments in the king's courts , till it come to require either losse of member or life . the argument from hence he enforceth from the solemn recognition and publick confirmation of these constitutions , and the oath taken to observe them ; from whence he concludes this to be testimonium irrefragabile , an irrefragable and invincible testimony . and so i foresee it will prove , but to a quite contrary purpose from what he intended it . the whole question depends upon the meaning of the latter clause of this constitution . the meaning he gives of it is this , that the prelats of the church should not be present at the iudgments given in the king's courts when losse of member or life was in question . the meaning of it i conceive to be this , that the bishops are required to be present in the king's courts as other barons are , till they come to give sentence as to dismembring , or loss of life . whether of these is the true meaning is now to be considered : and that will best be discovered these three ways . . by the occasion . . by the plain sense of the words according to their true reading . . by the subsequent practice upon this constitution in the parlament at northampton soon after . . by the occasion . the authour of the letter assigns that occasion for this constitution , for which there is not the least colour ; viz. that the prelats of that time were ambitious of a kind of omnipotency , ( in judicature i suppose he means , ) and that to restrain their power of judging capital cases this constitution was made : and because this seemed to be a diminution of their power , therefore matt. paris ranks it among the consuetudines iniquas , the wicked customs of the former times . for all which there is not the least shadow of proof ; besides that it is so repugnant to the history of those times , that i can hardly believe a person of so much learning and judgment , as is commonly said to be the authour of the letter , could betray so much unskilfulness in the affairs of those times . for this is so far from being true , that the bishops did then affect such a power of iudging in all secular causes , that they looked on their attendance in the king's court in the trial of causes , as a burthen which they would fain have been rid of ; because they accounted it a mark of subjection to the civil power , and contrary to that ecclesiastical liberty , or independency on princes , which from the days of gregory vii . they had been endeavouring to set up . which h. ii. being very sensible of , resolved to tie them to the service of their baronies , and to an attendance on the king's courts together with other barons . but lest they should pretend any force on their consciences , as to the canons of the church , this constitution doth not require , but suffers them to withdraw , when they came to sentence in matters of bloud . and that this was the true occasion , i prove by these two invincible arguments . . by the complaint which they made of the baronies , as too great a mark of subjection to the civil power . this is plain from matt. paris himself , to whom the authour of the letter refers : for when he speaks of william the conquerour's bringing the temporalties of the bishops into the condition of baronies , i. e. forcing them to hold them of him in chief upon certain duties and services , he calls it constitutionem pessimam , a most wicked constitution ; just as he calls the customs of clarendon consuetudines iniquas , wicked customs . and he adds , that many were banished rather then they would submit to that constitution . for their privileges were so great with the frank-almoign they enjoy'd in the saxon times , and their desires so hearty ( especially among the monks , who from edgar's time had gotten into most cathedral churches ) to advance the papal monarchy , that they rather chose to quit all , then to give up the cause of the churche's liberty by accepting of baronies . therefore matt. paris calls the rolls that were made of the services belonging to these baronies , rotulas ecclesiasticae servitutis , the rolls of ecclesiastical slavery ; then which nothing could be more contrary to that ecclesiastical liberty which was then setting up by pope hildebrand . and to put this out of all dispute , petrus blesensis , a name well known in this dispute , in that very book where he complains of the bishops hypocrisy about cases of bloud , in being present at hearing and trying causes , but going out at sentence , complains likewise of their baronies , as those which gave occasion to that hypocrisy , and as the marks of the vilest slavery . et in occasione turpissimae servitutis seipsos barones appellant . they may think it an honour to be called the king's barons , but he accounts it the greatest slavery ; and applies that place of scripture to them , they have reigned , but not by me ; they are become princes , and i know them not . now pet. blesensis lived in the time of h. ii. and knew the whole proceedings of the constitutions of clarendon , and was a zealous maintainer of becket's cause , or , which was all one , of the liberties of the church , as they call'd them , against the civil power . . by the fierce contest between the civil and ecclesiastical power , about the liberties of church-men . this was carried on from the time that william i. brought them into subjection by their baronies : his sons stood upon the rights of the crown ; whilst anselm and his brethren struggled all they could , but to little purpose , till after the death of h. i. then stephen , to gratifie the great prelates , by whose favour he came to the crown , yielded all they desired : but he soon repented , and they were even with him for it . malmsbury takes particular notice , that he yielded they should have their possessions free and absolute ; and they promised onely a conditional allegeance to him , as long as he maintained the liberties of the church . when k. stephen broke the canons , as they said , by imprisoning bishops , the bishop of winchester and his brethren summon'd him to answer it before them in council ; and there declared , that the king had nothing to doe with church-men , till the cause was first heard and determined by themselves . all his time , they had no regard to his authority , when it contradicted their wills : and when the peace was made between him and h. ii. radulphus de diceto takes notice that the power of the clergy increased by it . in this state h. ii. found things , when gul. neuburgensis saith , the great business of the church-men was to preserve their liberties . upon this the great quarrel between him and becket began : this made the king search what the rights of the crown were which his ancestours challenged ; to these he was resolved to make becket and his brethren submit . for this purpose the parlament was called at clarendon , and after great debates the constitutions were produced ; which were those the king was resolved to maintain , and he made the bishops as well as others swear to observe them . now when the rest of them relate to some exemptions and privileges which the church-men challenged to themselves , about their courts , excommunications , appeals , and such like , and which the king thought fit to restrain them in ; ( from whence in becket's epistles it is said , those constitutions were framed ad ancillandam ecclesiam , to bring the church in subjection , as baronius shews out of the vatican copy . and fitz-stephen saith , all the constitutions of clarendon were for suppressing the liberty of the church , and oppressing the clergy : i say , considering this , ) is there not then great reason to understand this th . constitution after the same manner : viz. that notwithstanding k. stephen's grant , h. ii. would make them hold by baronies , and doe all the service of barons in the king's courts , as other barons did ; and he would allow them no other privilege , but that of withdrawing when they came to sentence in a case of bloud ? what is there in this sense , but what is easy and natural , and fully agreeable to the state of those times ? whereas there is not the least foundation for the pretence of the bishops affecting to be present in all causes , which the king must restrain by this constitution . this sense of it is not onely without ground , but is absolutely repugnant to all the history of that age. for if this constitution was intended to restrain the bishops from trying causes of bloud , then the bishops did desire to be present in those causes , and the king would not suffer them . whereas it is evident that the bishops pretended scruple of conscience from the canons , that they could not be present ; but in truth stood upon their exemption from the service of barons , which they call'd ecclesiastical slavery . and therefore that could not be the sense of the constitution , to restrain them in that which they desired to be freed from , and which by this constitution of clarendon was plainly forced upon them against their wills . for lanfranc had brought the canon of the th . council of toledo into england , that no bishop or clergy-man should condemn a man to death , or give vote in the sentence of condemnation : at which council were present archbishops , bishops , and abbots . and before h. ii ' s time this canon of toledo was received into the body of the canon-law , made by ivo , burchardus , regino , and gratian who lived in the time of k. stephen : and when they saw such a canon so generally received , is there not far greater reason to think they desired to withdraw , then that they should press to be present , and the king restrain them ? but the constitution is so framed on purpose , to let them understand , that the king expected in all iudgments they should doe their duty , as other barons : but lest they should think he purposely designed to make them break the canons , he leaves them at liberty to withdraw when sentence was to be given . so that i can hardly doubt but the authour of the letter , if he please calmly to reflect upon the whole matter , will see reason to acknowledge his mistake ; and that this constitution was so far from intending to restrain the bishops from all iudicature in cases of bloud , that , on the contrary , it was purposely framed to oblige them to be present , and to act in such causes as the other barons did , at least till the cause was ripe for sentence : which last point the king was content to yield to them , out of regard and reverence to the canons of the church . for the words of the law are not words of prohibition and restraint from any thing , but of obligation to a duty ; which was , to be present and serve in the king's courts of iudicature , in like manner as the other barons did . from all which it is evident , i think , beyond contradiction , that the occasion of this law was not the ambition of the prelates , ( as the authour of the letter suggests ) to thrust themselves into this kind of iudicature ; but an ambition of a worse kind , ( though quite contrary ) viz. under a pretence of ecclesiastical liberty and privilege , to exempt themselves from the service of the king and kingdom , to which by virtue of their baronies they were bound , sicut caeteri barones , as well as the other barons . and therefore it is so far from being true , that the bishops exercise of this iurisdiction together with the temporal lords is a relique of popery , and one of the encroachments of the clergy in those times of ignorance and usurpation , as some well-meaning protestants are now made to believe ; that , on the contrary , the exemption of the clergy from this kind of secular iudicature was one of the highest points of popery , and that which the pope and his adherents contested for with more zeal then for any article of the creed . this was one of those privileges which thomas becket said christ purchased for his church with his bloud , and in the obstinate defence whereof against the king he himself at last lost his life . and now to put the matter beyond all doubt , i appeal to any man skill'd in the history of those times , whether thomas becket opposed the constitutions of clarendon to the death , and broke the oath he had taken to observe them , because by them ( among other things ) the bishops were excluded from iudicature in cases of bloud ; or for the quite contrary reason , ( among others ) because this service of the king in his courts , impos'd on them by virtue of their baronies , was look'd upon by him as a violation of the privileges of the church , and a badge of ecclesiastical slavery , which by all means he desir'd to cast off . and if the latter be the true reason , i leave it to the impartial reader , and even to the authour of the letter himself upon second thoughts , whether he have not widely mistaken both the occasion and meaning of this law. . let us consider the plain sense of the words according to the true reading of them . the authour of the letter hath made use of the most imperfect copy , viz. that in matt. paris ; i cannot tell for what reason , unless it be that in the last clause [ in iudicio ] is there left out , which is put in in the copy extant in gervase , and in the vatican copy , and in several mss. in all which it runs thus , et sicut barones caeteri debent interesse judiciis curiae regis cum baronibus , usque perveniatur in judicio ad diminutionem membrorum , vel ad mortem . now here are two things to be distinguished . . something expresly required of the bishops as to their presence in the king's courts , viz. that they must attend as other barons , and sit together with them : and therefore it is expressed twice ; et sicut caeteri barones , in the beginning of that clause , and cum baronibus , again after , and debent interesse , in the middle . and can any one soberly think , that the meaning of all this is , they must not be present in cases of bloud ? no : the constitution saith , they ought to be present as other barons , and sit with other barons in the trials of the king's courts . and yet the authour of the letter doth ( to speak mildly ) very unfairly represent this constitution , as if it did forbid the prelats to be at all present in the iudgments of the king's courts in cases of bloud ; and that in express words . for , speaking of the constitutions of clarendon , he hath this passage , and one of these constitutions was , that the prelats of the church should not interesse iudiciis curie regis , be present at the iudgments given in the kings courts . whereas this constitution ( as he himself cites it afterwards ) runs thus , debent interesse iudiciis curie regis , quousque , &c. they ought to be present in the iudgments of the king's courts , till it come to loss of members or life . so that this law expresly says , that they ought to be present in the iudgments of the king's courts , till it come , &c. and when it comes to loss of members or life , it doth not say ( as the authour of the letter affirms ) that they should not be present then , nor do the words of the constitution imply any such thing ; but only require ( as i shall evidently make appear ) their presence so far ; and when it should come to sentence , leaves them at liberty to withdraw in obedience to the canons of the church , which they pretended themselves bound in conscience to observe . and this is the true reason why , among the constitutions of clarendon , ( whereof were condemned , tolerated , but none approv'd , by pope alex. iii. ) this . was one of the which escaped with an hoc toleravit , this the pope was content to tolerate ; because in the last clause of it there was regard had to the canons of the church . of this misrepresentation of the constitution under debate , though it might have deserved a more severe animadversion , i shall say no more , because i have no design to provoke the authour or any body else , but onely to convince them . . something allowed to the bishops as peculiar to themselves , viz. that when the court hath proceeded so far in judicio , in a particular trial , ( for before it is iudiciis in general ) that sentence was to be given either as to dismembring , or loss of life , then they are at liberty ; but till then they are required . as , suppose charles v. had required the protestant princes to attend him to masse , as other princes did ; onely when the mass-bell tinckled they might withdraw ; would not any reasonable man understand by this , that they were obliged to their attendance till then ? so it is here : the king commands their attendance till it comes to such a point ; therefore before it comes thither , their presence is plainly required by this constitution . and so in stead of there being a statute-law to exclude the bishops at such trials , there is one to require their presence in judicio , in the proceedings of such a trial , till it comes to sentence . all that can be said in this case is , that the last clause is not to be understood of the sentence , but of the kind or quality of the cause ; i. e. they are to be present in the king's courts , till they come to a cause wherein a man's life or members are concerned . but that this cannot be the meaning will appear . . there is a great deal of difference between quousque perveniatur ad judicium mutilationis membrorum , vel mortis , that might have been understood of a cause of bloud ; and quousque perveniatur in judicio ad mutilationem membrorum , vel ad mortem , for this supposeth a trial already begun , and the bishops present so far in it ; but when it comes to the point of mutilation or death , then they have leave to withdraw . so that this last clause must either be understood of execution , which no one can think proper for the king's courts ; or for the sentence given by the court , which is most agreeable . . the sense is best understood by the practice of that age. for , if the meaning of the constitution had been , they must not be present in any cause of bloud , and the bishops had all sworn to observe it ; can we imagine we should find them practising the contrary so soon after ? and for this i appeal to petrus blesensis , whose words are so material to this purpose , that i shall set them down . principes sacerdotum & seniores populi , licèt non dictent judicia sanguinis , eadem tamen tractant disputando & disceptando de illis ; séque ideo immunes à culpa reputant , quòd mortis aut truncationis membrorum judícium decernentes , à pronuntiatione duntaxat & executione poenalis sententiae se absentent . whereby it is evident that the bishops were present at all debates , and gave votes in causes of bloud ; but they absented themselves from the sentence , and the execution of it . it is true , pet. blesensis finds fault with them for this . but what is that to the law , or to the practice of that age ? i do not question , but pet. blesensis condemned the observation of the other constitutions of clarendon , as well as this ; and in all probability this passage of his was levelled at those bishops who did observe this . constitution . . we have a plain way to understand the meaning of this constitution , by what happen'd soon after in the parlament at northampton , which was summon'd upon becket's obstinacy and contempt of the king's authority : where fitz-stephen saith , he was accused of treason ; and the bishops sate together with other barons ; and because it did not come to a sentence of death , after great debate between the other lords and the bishops about pronouncing the sentence , the bishop of winchester did it . wherein we have as plain evidence as can be desired , that the bishops did sit with the other barons , and vote with them in a case of treason . to this precedent the authour of the letter answers several things . . that none of the ancient historians of those times say any thing of his being accused of treason : and therefore he thinks one may modestly affirm , that it was a mistake in fitz-stephen to say so . but what if h. ii. and becket himself both confess that he was charged with treason ? h. ii. in his letter to reginaldus saith , that by consent of his barons and clergy he had sent ambassadours to pope alexander , with this charge , that if he did not free him from that traitour becket , he and his kingdom would renounce all obedience to him . and becket did not think this a bare term of reproach ; for in one of his letters he saith , that defending the liberties of the church laesae majestatis reatus sub persecutore nostro est , was looked on as treason by the king. and even gervase himself , to whom the authour of the letter appeals , saith , some of his friends came to him at northampton , and told him , if he did not submit to the king , he would be proceeded against as a traitour , for breaking the allegeance he had promised to the king , when he did swear to observe the ancient customs at clarendon . and fitz-stephen saith , the king's council at clarendon said it was treason , or taking the king's crown from his head , to deny him the rights of his ancestours . . that it was a strange kind of treason becket was charged with at northampton , viz. for not coming when the king sent for him ; which at the most was onely a high contempt ; and fitz-stephen , who was a creature of the archbishop's , might represent it so , to draw an odium on the king. and therefore he looks on this as a weak precedent for the bishops to lay any weight upon , being at best out of a blind ms. of an authour justly suspected of partiality , against the tenour of all the ancient writers that give an account of the same business . what truth there is in this last suggestion appears in part already , and will do more by what follows . must all the unprinted records be answered with saying they are blind mss ? i cannot but take notice how unreasonable a way of answering this is . it is like turning of that pressing instance , of the bishops making a proctor in capital cases , by saying it was error temporis ; which because it will answer all instances whatsoever as well as that , is therefore an answer to none . just so it is equally an answer to all mss , to say they are blind ; and to all printed books too , because they were once mss , and , for any thing that appears to the contrary , as blind as fitz-stephen's . for surely no authority is added to a book by its being printed ; unless in the opinion of the common people , who are said to take all for true that is in print . i do not go about to parallel fitz-stephen with parlament-rolls ; but i say , his authority is very good , being present upon the place , and the best we have , of all the proceedings in the parlament at northampton . and if the authour of the letter had taken the pains to peruse him , he would not have contemned the precedent drawn from thence ; which being so near the parlament at clarendon , ( that , as himself confesseth , the one was in february , the other in october following , ) it gives the best light into this matter of any thing in that age ; and being not yet fully printed , it will be worth our while to set it down . mr. selden hath indeed printed very exactly the proceedings of the first iudgment upon becket , about the cause of contempt , for not coming upon the king's summons , at the complaint of iohn the marshall ; wherein the bishops did certainly sit in iudgment upon him with the other barons : but there is a farther strength in this precedent , not yet taken notice of . which is , that after this iudgment passed , becket behaved himself with so great insolency towards the king and the bishops , upon the king's calling him to farther account , for many other things laid to his charge , as diverting the king's treasure , and applying it to his own use , and great accounts to the king while he was chancellour , &c. that the king required him to stand to the iudgment of his court. becket gave a dilatory answer : the king summons the bishops , and earls and barons , to give iudgment against him : the bishops tell the king , becket had appealed to the pope , and prohibited them to give any farther judgment upon any secular complaint against him . whereupon the king sent some earls and barons to him , to expostulate the matter , since he was the king's subject , and had so lately sworn to the constitutions at clarendon ; and to know whether he would give security to the king about making up his accounts , and stand to the judgment of his court. becket refuseth to give answer to any thing , but the cause of iohn the marshall , for which he was summoned to appear ; slights his oath , as contrary to the rights of the church , and confirms his appeal to the pope . and such an owning of the pope's power , in derogation to the rights of the crown , sir edward cook saith was treason by the ancient common law , before any statutes were made . however , the king charges the bishops by virtue of their allegeance , that , together with the barons , they would give iudgment upon the archbishop . they excused themselves on the account of the archbishop's prohibition . the king replied , that had no force against the constitution of clarendon , so lately made and acknowledged by them . the words of fitz-stephen are these : rex , responso archiepiscopi accepto , instat episcopis , praecipiens & obtestans per homagium & fidelitatem sibi debitam & juratam , ut simul cum baronibus de archiepiscopo sibi dictent sententiam . illi se excusare coeperunt per interpositam archiepiscopi prohibitionem . rex non acquievit , asserens , quòd non teneat haec ejus simplex prohibitio contra hoc quod clarendonae factum & initum fuerat . so that h. ii. in the parlament at northampton declared , that bishops were bound , by virtue of the constitution of clarendon , to be present , and to give their votes in cases of treason . and the bishops ' did not deny this , but used prudential arguments to disswade the king from proceeding any farther , the appeal being made ; and that it was for the good of king and kingdom , for them to submit to the prohibition . and the bishop of chichester told becket , he made them go against the constitutions of clarendon , which they had so lately sworn to observe ; in these remarkable words ; quo contra nos venire compellitis , interdicendo , nè ei quod de nobis exigit adesse possumus iudicio . by which we see this constitution is indeed an irrefragable testimony ; but it is to prove that bishops are bound to be present even in cases of treason , when the king summons them . and as to the case of becket's treason , the same bishop told him , it lay in breaking his oath about those constitutions , wherein the rights of the crown were declared . and if this be not treason by the common law , sir edward cook 's preface to his fifth book of reports signifies nothing . the late authour of the peerage and iurisdiction of the lords spirituall takes it for granted , that by the constitution of clarendon the iurisdiction of bishops was limited , that it should not extend ad diminutionem membrorum , vel ad mortem . but the foregoing discourse hath , i suppose , made it evident , that those words contain no limitation , but a privilege or indulgence to them with respect to the canon-law . and he takes very needless pains to prove this to be declarative of the common law ; and that the meeting at clarendon was a full parlament : which are very much besides the business . all that looks towards this matter , is , that he saith , this statute was confirmed by a council at westminster ; for which he cites rog. hoveden's authority . but i wish he had produced the canon entire as he there found it ; for then the sense of it would have been better understood . in this synod at westminster , richard archbishop of canterbury produceth several ancient canons , which he thought fit to be observed here . among the rest , he mentions that of the council of toledo . the words are these : his qui in sacris ordinibus constituti sunt , judicium sanguinis agitare non licet ; here he makes his &c. and leaves out the prohibition which declares the meaning and extent of this canon : vnde prohibemus , nè aut per se membrorum truncationes faciant , aut inferendas judicent ; wherefore we forbid them , either to dismember any persons themselves , or to give iudgment for the doing of it . both which were practised in spain in the time of the council of toledo , which was the occasion of this canon . and then follows the sanction of deprivation if men did otherwise . and what now doth this signifie more to the constitution of clarendon , then that the same canons were now revived , which gave the occasion to that permission of withdrawing , when the sentence came to be pronounced as to dismembring , or loss of life ? but he urges farther about this constitution , that it must be so understood , as to exclude the bishops from all antecedent and praeliminary things which do relate or tend ad diminutionem , &c. or else , saith he , it must be onely the exemption of the prelats from doing the office of executioners , which is non-sense . why so ? though it be not the whole sense of the canon , yet surely it is sense . but he might have thought of giving sentence , which the canons forbid , and is different from execution , and doth not exclude the bishops presence at praeliminaries . the constitution of westminster , he saith , is plainer , non debent agitare judicium sanguinis ; which , he saith , excludes the exercise of any judicial power in cases of bloud . whereas it appears by the prohibition there extant , nothing is forbidden but giving sentence ; at which the constitution of clarendon allows them to withdraw . . the second time we are told that the exclusion of the bishops in cases capital rereived a confirmation in parlament , was the . of r. ii. when the archbishop and the other bishops , upon their withdrawing then from the parlament , in regard matters of bloud were there to be agitated and determined , in quibus non licet alicui eorum personaliter interesse , as they say , in which it was not lawfull for any of them to be present in person , did therefore enter a protestation , with a salvo to their right of sitting and voting in that and all other parlaments , when such matters were not in question : which protestation of theirs was at their desire enrolled in full parlament by the king's command , with the assent of the lords temporal and commons . so that it is here said to be a perfect and compleat act of parlament ; and if it had not been a law before , would then have been made one . this is the substance of what is more largely insisted on in another place ; and what strength is there added shall be duely considered . to understand this business aright , it will be necessary to set down the protestation it self at large , as it is taken out of courtney's register , and the parlament-rolls ; and then examine the points that do arise from thence . the protestation runs thus . in dei nomine amen . cùm de jure & consuetudine regni angliae , ad archiepiscopum cantuariensem , qui pro tempore fuerit , necnon caeteros suos suffraganeos , confratres & coëpiscopos , abbatésque & priores , aliosque praelatos quoscunque , per baroniam de domino rege tenentes , pertineat in parlamentis regis quibuscunque , ut pares regni praedicti , personaliter interesse , ibidémque de regni negotiis , & aliis ibidem tractari consuetis , cum caeteris dicti regni paribus , & aliis ibidem jus interessendi habentibus , consulere , tractare , ordinare , statuere , & diffinire , ac caetera facere quae parlamenti tempore ibidem imminent facienda ; in quibus omnibus & singulis , nos willielmus cantuar. archiepiscopus , totius angliae primas , & apostolicae sedis legatus , pro nobis , nostrisque suffraganeis , coëpiscopis , & confratribus , bus , nec non abbatibus , prioribus , ac praelatis omnibus supradictis , protestamur , & eorum quilibet protestatur , qui per se , vel per procuratorem hîc fuerit modò praesens , publicè & expressè , quòd intendimus , & intendit , volumus , ac vult quilibet eorum , in hoc praesenti parlamento , & aliis , ut pares regni praedicti , more solito interesse , consulere , tractare , ordinare , statuere , & diffinire , accaetera exercere , cum caeteris jus interessendi habentibus in eisdem , statu & ordine nostris & eorum cujuslibet in omnibus semper salvis . verùm quia in praesenti parlamento agitur de nonnullis materiis in quibus non licet nobis , aut alicui eorum , juxta sacrorum canonum instituta quomodolibet personaliter interesse , ea propter pro nobis & eorum quolibet protestamur , & eorum quilibet hîc praesens etiam protestatur , quòd non intendimus , nec volumus , sicuti de jure non possumus , nec debemus , intendit , nec vult aliquis eorundem , in praesenti parlamento , dum de hujusmodi materiis agitur , vel agetur , quomodolibet interesse ; sed nos , & eorum quemlibet , in ea parte penitùs absentare , jure paritatis & cujuslibet eorundem interessendi in dicto parlamento , quoad omnia & singula mihi exercenda , nostris & eorum cujuslibet statu & ordine congruentia , in omnibus semper salvo . ad haec insuper protestamur , & eorum quilibet protestatur , quòd propter hujusmodi absentiam , non intendimus , nec volumus , nec eorum aliquis intendit vel vult , quòd processus habiti & habendi in praesenti parlamento super materiis antedictis , in quibus non possumus , nec debemus , ut premittitur , interesse , quantum ad nos & eorum quemlibet attinet , futuris temporibus quomodolibet impugnentur , infirmentur , seu etiam infringentur . this protestation , setting aside the legal formalities of it , consists of parts . . a declaration of their undoubted right as peers of the realm , by virtue of their baronies , to sit and vote in all debates of parlament . . of their intention to withdraw this parlament , because several matters were to be handled , at which it was not lawfull for them , according to the canons , to be present . . that by this absenting themselves they did not intend , as far as concerned them , to null the proceedings of that parlament . here now arise three main points to be discussed . . upon what grounds the prelats declared , it was not lawfull for them to be present in parlament , at such matters ? . how far the parlament's receiving that protestation makes it a law ? . whether on supposition it were a part of canon-law then in force , it continues so still since the reformation ? . upon what grounds they declared it unlawfull for them to be present in parlament , at such matters ? one would think the very reading the protestation were sufficient to convince any man ; for the bishops declare as plainly as men could do , that it was out of regard to the canons of the church , and not from any law of the land. for how was it possible that the same men should declare , that by reason of their baronies they had full right to be personally present in all debates of parlament , if there were some law in force which made it unlawfull for them to be personally present ? the greater force there is in the protestation 's being receiv'd in parlament , the greater strength there is in this argument . for if the protestation 's being allowed by king , lords and commons , make it ( as the authour of the letter affirms ) a perfect and compleat law , then their right to be present in all debates of parlament is a law ; and so much the more considerable , because it is no enacting law , making that to be so , which was not before , but declarative of what was confessed to be their undoubted right by king , lords and commons . and therefore i do not wonder , that the authour of the letter , so conveniently to his purpose , left out all the beginning of the protestation , which so fully clears the sense of the rest . for the very same thing which afterwards the bishops say they are forbid to doe by the canons , that is , personaliter interesse , to give their personal attendance , they say at first , by right of their peerage , as barons by tenure , did belong to them ; for there the words are personaliter interesse too . therefore that personal attendance in such matters which they said was unlawfull to them by the canons , they challenge to themselves as their just right by virtue of their baronies . but is it possible to imagine , if they had been precluded from sitting by any antecedent law , that ever such a publick avowing their right would have passed the king and both houses ? so unsuccessfull hath the authour of the letter been in his statute-laws , that there can be no stronger evidence of the bishops right to sit in such cases , then those which he produceth against them . but he goes about to prove this prohibition cannot be understood onely of the canon-law : for the canon-law , saith he , was to them above all laws ; and what was forbidden by that law , they could not have a thought , that it could in any sort be lawfull for them to challenge as their right , upon any account . i confess i can see no force in this reasoning : for when a thing is forbidden to men meerly by a positive law of the church , and the penalty of it is bare irregularity by the canons ; why may not such men challenge their own right notwithstanding those canons , because the irregularity might be dispensed with , when the pope saw convenient ? and by the constitutions of o●hobon , which were made in the time of h. iii. we find , that if an inferiour clergy-man transgressed this canon , it was in the power of the diocesan to absolve him from his irregularity . and this canon was receiv'd and inforc'd most here in england on the inferiour clergy , as appears by the canons of stephen langton in the council of oxford , and other synodall constitutions here . for it is a rule in lyndwood , clericus ex vi verbi non comprehendit episcopum , sed cum adjuncto , sic in quantum illud adjunctum potest concernere episcopum . that by clerici we are not to understand bishops , unless there be some adjunct that implieth it . and among the decretals there is one from alexander iii. to the archbishop of canterbury , under the title nè clerici , to the same purpose . where the glosse , i grant , comprehends prelats ; therefore i will not deny , but they were to be irregular by the canon-law , as well as others . but then , we are to consider , how far the legatine power vested in the archbishop of canterbury might extend in such a case ; and that there was the same severity in the canons against clergy-men's taking upon them any secular office : and yet in this very parlament , thomas arundell bishop of ely was lord chancellour , and after him william of wickham bishop of winchester , and before them r. baybroke bishop of london ; and the bishops of durham and exceter were lords treasurers under r. ii. and in h. iii's time we find clergy-men lords chief iustices , pateshull , lovell and mansell , notwithstanding these canons ; and in edward iii's time almost all the great offices of the court were executed by clergy-men . by which we see they did not think themselves so strictly bound to observe those canons ; or it was so easy to be dispensed with , that they had great reason to insist upon the challenge of their own right , notwithstanding the canon-law . the truth is , the canon-law , as it was managed in those days , was one of the most mysterious pieces of ecclesiasticall policy : it was an engine , which the artificial church-men could screw up or let down as they pleased . if it were in a matter likely to be prejudicial to their interest , ( as it was most apparently the case in r. ii. when matters grew so high between r. ii. and the powerfull lords , and so many favourites were to be impeached , and among them alexander archbishop of york , ) then it was a time to quote the canons , and to enter a protestation , and to withdraw : if the times were calmer and more settled , or some great reason moved them , then they could stick to their right of peerage , and make use of it , either in person , or by proxy , as they thought convenient . nor was it so easy a matter to resolve what was canon-law in england , but they might with some colour make use of either of these pleas. for in this very parlament r. ii. the commons desire that those may be reputed traitours who brought in the pope's bulls of volumus & imponimus : which shews that they did not think all canon-law that passed for such at rome . and r. ii. sir will. brian was sent to the tower , for bringing a bull from rome which was judged prejudicial to the king , and derogatory to his laws . and in r. ii. will. courtney , archbishop of canterbury , ( the same who enter'd the protestation before mentioned , ) makes another of a different kind , owning the rights of the crown in opposition to the pope's encroachments . now , by the same reason , no canon made at rome , no legatine or synodal constitutions , could have any force against the king's authority . but the king himself being under a force at that time , as he alwaies declared afterwards , and that being , as knighton saith it was called , parlamentum sine misericordia , the king having tied himself up , not to pardon any without consent of the lords ; he might be willing to let the bishops excuse themselves ; because that might give some colour to call in question the proceedings then , as it did r. ii. when all the acts of this parlament were nulled : and the lords and commons might be very willing to let the bishops withdraw , that their business might proceed with less difficulty against all the king's ministers . so that here was a concurrence of many circumstances , which made the bishops think fit not to appear in the house , this parlament ; and the king , lords and commons to be willing to receive their protestation . but in the anti-parlament to this , that i mean r. ii. the commons pray the king , that since divers iudgments were undone heretofore , for that the clergy were not present , they might appoint some common proctor with sufficient authority to that purpose . this is a passage which deserves consideration , and tends very much to clear the whole matter . for the house of commons declare , that divers iudgments had been undone for want of the presence of the clergy . therefore their concurrence , in the judgment of the house of commons , was thought necessary to make a iudgment valid . a very late authour finds himself so perplexed with this , that he knows not how to get off from it . he cannot deny this to be in the rolls of parlament , and to be the first petition of the commons : but then he blames them for rashness and errour , and want of due examination of precedents . as though it were possible for any man now , to understand the law and practice better then the whole house of commons then did . he saith , they were mistaken palpably de facto , in saying that divers iudgments have been heretofore undone ; and yet presently confesseth , that the two iudgments against the two spencers were reversed for this cause ; but he saith , there are no more to be found . where doth he mean ? in his study ? or not now extant in the parlament-rolls ? but have we all the rolls of parlament that were then in being ? or must men so boldly charge the house of commons with ignorance , errour , breaking the laws , because they speak against their fancies ? but this gentleman very peremptorily concludes the house of commons then guilty of a very strange and unaccountable oversight . it is great pity , a certain gentleman had not been there to have searched records for them , and to have informed them better . but we think a iudgment of the whole house of commons in such a case , declared in so solemn a manner , without the least contradiction from the king or the lords , might deserve a little more respect ; and it had certainly had it , if it had made for the other side . but we see the house of commons it self is reverenced , or not , as the judgment of it serves mens purposes . and yet this was more then the bare iudgment of the house of commons : for a petition was made upon it , and that petition granted ; and consequently a common proctor appointed , and that proctor allowed by king , lords and commons . so that this was a judgment ratified by consent of the king and the whole parlament . for , if a petition were made on a false ground , what had been more proper , then for the lords to have open'd this to the commons , and to have told them how unadvised and false their iudgment was ? whereas the lords consented , and the proctor was admitted , and gave his vote in the name of the clergy . but there is something more to confirm this iudgment of the commons , and that is , the parlament r. ii. making petition to the king , that all iudgments then given might be approved , affirmed and stablished , as a thing duely made for the weal and profit of the king our sovereign lord , notwithstanding that the lords spiritual and their procurators were absent at the time of the said iudgments given . what means this petition , if there had been no doubt at that time , that these judgments might be reversed , as not duely made , by reason of the absence of the prelats ? the onely answer in my mind is , that it was error temporis , they were of that mind then , but some are resolved to be of another now . but from hence we plainly see , that even in r. ii ' s time the concurrence of the bishops was thought so necessary , that one parlament declared iudgments had been reversed for want of it ; and that very parlament wherein they absented themselves , got a clause inserted on purpose to prevent the nulling of those iudgments : which signified nothing to the parlament r. ii. which reversed them all . there is something more considerable to our purpose in this parlament ; viz. that the same authour produceth the testimony of a ms. chronicle , which largely handles the affairs of that parlament , wherein it is confessed , that the bishops , by concurring with the lords in the revocation of the earl of arundel's pardon , did give vote in a case capital : for so the words are there cited , dederunt ergo locum praelati judicio sanguinis in hoc facto . which shews that the bishops did then give their votes about the validity of the pardon : which the authour of that chronicle indeed condemns them for , and tells us some thought they incurred irregularity by it . from whence it follows , that all the penalty supposed to be incurred was onely canonical ; but he never charges them with going against the law or custom of parlament therein . but the authour of the letter saith , whatever was done this parlament signifies nothing , because the whole parlament stands repealed by h. iv. and all done in it delcared null and void . yet , to our comfort , the same authour tells us , the three henry's were usurpers ; and therefore i desire to be satisfied , whether an vsurper , by a parlament of his calling , can null and repeal what was done by a king and his parlament . if he may , then the king lost his title to the crown by the late vsurpers ; if not , then the parlament r. ii. could not be repealed by that h. iv. if the authour of the letter had considered this , he is a person of too great judgment and loyalty , to have mention'd , more then once , the repeal of that parlament , by the subsequent parlament h. iv. from all this we see , that by the judgment of the whole parlament , both r. ii. and r ii. the bishops had a right to sit , so far that iudgments were reversed where they were not present ; and therefore all the pretence they could have for withdrawing must be from the canon-law : which although not sufficient to bind them , if the matter had been contested , yet it served them for a very colourable pretence of absenting themselves in such dangerous times , as those of r. ii. here the authour of the peerage and iurisdiction of the lords spiritual thinks he brings seasonable relief to the cause , when he undertakes to prove , that the bishops withdrawing was not meerly on the account of the canon-law . this , i confess , is home to the business , if he can make it out . ( . ) he saith , there was an act of parlament before , that did expresly prohibit them to excercise iurisdiction in those cases . this we utterly deny . and the constitution of clarendon , to which he refers , proves the contrary . ( . ) the bishops made bold with the canons when they thought fit , as r. ii. but how could they doe that , unless they had a parlamentary right to be present ? he saith , the constituting a proxy was as great a violation of the canons , as being personally present : and what then ? therefore the parlament would not have suffered them to doe that , if there had been a law to exclude them . how doth this prove that the bishops did not withdraw on the account of the canons ii r. ii. because they made a proxie r. ii ? but why did they not appear personally , if they had no regard to the canons ; when the receiving their proxie shewed they had a legal right to appear ? but he grievously mistakes the meaning of the canon of stephen langton in lyndwood , when he interprets literas pro poena sanquinis instigenda scribere vel dictare , against making of proxies ; which is onely meant of giving or writing the sentence for execution . ( . ) he saith , they were excluded by ancient custom ; which , by a very subtle way of reasoning , he proves to have been part of the fundamental contract of the nation , as he speaks . seeing then , saith he , it is without doubt that there was such a custom , that the prelats should not exercise iurisdiction in capital cases ; ( not so altogether without doubt , unless it were better proved then we have yet seen it ; ) and there is no record that doth mention when it did begin , nor any time when it could be said there never was such an vsage ; ( yes , before the council of toledo being published in spain , and receiv'd here ; ) it must of necessity be supposed , that it is as ancient as the government it self , and part of the fundamental contract of the nation . which looks so like a iesuitical argument , that one would have thought he had been proving transubstantiation by it . for just thus the argument runs at this day among that party ; there was a time when it was reciev'd , and no time can be instanced in wherein it was not , therefore it was a part of the fundamental religion of iesus christ. the plain answer in both cases is the same : if we can produce unquestionable authority to which a doctrine or practice is repugnant , we are not obliged to assign any punctual time in which it must first come in . but in this case , we do assign the very time and occasion of the bishops absenting themselves in capital iudgments , and that was from the receiving the canon of the council of toledo here : for no such practice can ever be proved before . and therefore this can never be proved to be any part of the ancient common law of england . and that this came in by way of imitation of other countries , appears by the citing the council of toledo both by lanfranc and richard in the council of winchester . ( . ) he saith , the practice is ancienter then any of the canons of the church . but how doth that appear ? the eldest canon he can find is that of stephen langton in lyndwood , which was made above years after the parlament at clarendon . but we have made it evident , there was a canon receiv'd here in lanfranc's time , long before the constitution of clarendon . and so a full answer is given to these objections . but we are told , by the authour of the letter , that the bishops protestation being receiv'd and enter'd in the roll , or iournal-book , makes it to pass for a law , it being agreed to by the king and two houses ; so as whatever was the law before , if it were onely the canon-law , it is now come to be the law and rule of parlament , and the law of the land. . this is therefore the second point to be examined , whether the receiving this protestation amounts to a law of exclusion ? which it can by no means do for these two reasons : . from the nature of protestations in general , . from the particular nature of this protestation . . from the nature of protestations in general . for a protestation is onely a declaration of their minds that make it , and not of theirs who receive it , or suffer it to be enter'd in the acts or records of the court ; unless it be receiv'd in such a manner , as implies their consent . for , the very next parlament after this , r. ii. the two archbishops , in the name of the whole clergy , enter a protestation , that they gave no assent to any law or statute made in restraint of the pope's authority ; and it is said in the rolls of parlament , that at their requests these protestations were enrolled . will any man hence inferre , that these protestations were made acts of parlament ? if the cause would have born any better , a person of so much skill in proceedings of parlament would never have used such an argument as this . besides , it is a rule in protestations , si protestatio in iudicio fiat , semper per contrarium actum tollitur , saith hostiensis ; a protestation , although allowed in court , is taken off by a subsequent act contrary to it . which shews , that a protestation can never have the force of a law ; because it may be destroy'd by the act of the parties themselves . if therefore the bishops did afterwards act contrary to this protestation , they took away all the force of it . . the particular nature of this protestation is such , as doth most evidently preserve their right to be personally present on the account of their peerage and baronies ; and the great design of a protestation is , to preserve a right notwithstanding some act which seems to destroy it ; as thier absenting themselves on the account of the canons might seem to doe . but of this already . . we are now to consider the third point , whether , on supposition that on the account of the canon-law , the bishops had always withdrawn in the time of popery , that had continued in force still since the reformation ? i think not , upon these reasons . . because the canon-law was founded upon a superstitious fancy , viz. that if clergy-men be present in causes of bloud , they contract irregularity ex defectu perfectae lenitatis , as the excellent canonist , navarr , saith , because it argues a want of perfect lenity . but if we consider the cases they allow , which do not incurre irregularity , and those they do not allow , which do incurre it , we shall find all this stir in the canon-law about this matter to be onely a superstitious kind of hypocrisy . . if a man in orders gives another man weapons , without which he could not defend himself , and by those weapons he maims him that assaulted him ; this doth not make him irregular : but if he kills him , it doth : and yet the canons make the case of dismembring and death the same . . it makes a man act against the law or nature to prevent irregularity . for they say , if it be for the defence of father or mother , or preventing the ruin of his country , although the cause be never so just , a clergy-man that dismembers , or takes away another's life , is irregular . . if a clergy-man discovers treason , or accuses another for treason , without a protestation , that he doth not doe it with a design to have him punished ; he is irregular : but if he makes that protestation , although death follows , he is not . . if a clergy-man be in an army , and perswades the souldiers to fight manfully , and kill as many as they can ; this doth not make him irregular ; ny , although he beats them , if they will not fight : but if he happens to kill an enemy himself , then he is . . if he gives a souldier a sword or a gun , by which he dispatches his enemies , if he did it with a particular intention that he should slay or maim them , he is irregular ; if onely with a general intention , that he should overcome , he is not . this being somewhat a nice case , the canonists take more then usual pains to prove it . and from hence they defend their priests and iesuits in the indies , who carry the cross before their armies into the field , and encourage them to kill all they can : and yet navarr saith , they are so far from being irregular , that they are regularissimi , as his word is . . if a man , to gain an indulgence , carries a faggot to burn an heretick , if it be with a design to take away his life , he is irregular : but if he be hanged first , or dead before it be thrown into the fire , then he is not . . if a man in orders helps a chirurgeon in cutting off a man's leg , he is not irregular : but if a man be justly condemned to have his leg cut off , if he then gives any assistence , he is irregular : because the one is moved out of mercy , and the other out of justice . . if the bishops sit and condemn a man for heresy , and deliver him over to the secular power for execution ; yet they free this from irregularity , or else the practice of the inquisition were lost . this seems a very difficult case : but the canonists salve this , by saying that the inquisitours , when they deliver them over to the secular power , do pray that they may not be hurt either wind or lim ; as it appears by the forms used in the directorium inquisitorum . and if this be not the height of hypocrisie , let the world judge . and therefore this part of the canon-law is not consistent with the sincerity of the reformation . . this part of canon-law is inconsistent with the king's power over ecclesiastical persons . for it supposeth them liable to the penalty of a law , which he hath no cognisance of , and derives no force or authority from him : which tends to the diminution of the king's prerogative royal , and therefore it is nulled by the stat. ▪ h. viii . c. . i do very much question whether this ever were any part of the canon-law of england , notwithstanding the pope's decretals ; i. e. whether these canons ever received confirmation by the royal authority , either in synodal constitutions , or elsewhere . and it would be a very hard case , if our kings had not the same privileges which are allow'd in popish countries ; viz. that nothing passes for canon-law within their territories , till it pass the examination of the king's council , and approbation by his authority . thence in france nothing passes without the king's pareatis ; nor in spain or flanders , without the king of spain's placet ; no nor in the kingdom of naples , without the royal exequatur . it is well known , that the . book of decretals was not allowed in france , because of the quarrel between the king and boniface viii . and that even the council of trent it self was not allowed by philip ii. till it had been strictly examined by the king's council , that nothing might be allowed which tended to the diminution of his prerogative . how then will men justifie the making that a part of the canon-law of england , which was repugnant to the rights of the crown , and deprives the king of the power of taking advice of those of his subjects , whom he hath summon'd for that end ? . the sanction of this law is ceased , which was irregularity : and some of our most learned iudges have declared , that is taken away by the reformation . but in case any be of another opinion , i shall urge them with this inconveniency ; viz. that the great instrument of discovering the plot falls under irregularity by it . for it is most certain , by the canon-law , that a man in orders accusing others of treason , without making his due protestation in court , is irregular . but if this be now thought unreasonable , as it is , in the person of an accuser , why should it not be so in the case of iudges ? and if the irregularity be taken away , then the sanction is gone : and if the sanction be taken off in a meer positive law , the force of the law is gone too . and therefore this canon-law , which forbids clergy-men being present in capital cases , and giving votes therein , is wholly taken away by the reformation . and we do not find any mention of it for years and more after the reformation ; till about the time of the earl of strafford's trial , a book being printed about the privilege of peers , wherein this protestation was mention'd , hold was presently taken of it , by men who thought they could not compass their ends without removing the bishops out of the house : and when the bishops insisted on their right , and could not be heard , but at last were willing to salve their right by proxies ; the lords of the cabal prevailed with their friends , to declare they would use no proxies themselves , and so by that artifice shut the bishops out of doors . . the practice hath been so contrary , since the reformation , that i find no manner of regard hath been shewed to it . for the archbishop of canterbury was the first nominated in the commission for the trial of the queen of scots ; as appears by the commission it self in camden ; which is directly contrary to the canon-law . some distinguish the bishops acting by commission , from their being iudges in parlament . for which there is no manner of reason with respect to the canon-law , which is rather more express against any kind of commissions in cases of bloud ; as appears by the council of toledo , the synodal constitution , and the pope's decretals . and there hath never been any scruple about divines sitting on the crown-side as iustices of the peace , when sentence of death is pronounced ; nor in the ordinary's declaring legit , or non legit , when a man's life depends upon it . but , which is yet more to our present purpose , in the parlament . may . upon the impeachment of the earl of bristol of high treason , bishops , earls , barons , were appointed to examine the evidence ; and upon their report he was sent to the tower by the whole house . all which shews , that there hath been no regard had to the force of the canon-law in this matter since the reformation : that being a spirit lay'd long since by the principles of our church ; and it would be strange , if some mens zeal against popery should raise it again . chap. iii. the precedents on both sides laid down : those against the bishops examined and answered . ii. i now come to examine the precedents , and shall proceed therein according to due order of time. and so the first is taken from the saxon times ; viz. from brompton's relation about edward the confessour's appealing to the earls and barons about earl godwin's murthering of his brother alfred . here we see , saith the authour of the letter , it was onely ad comites & barones that he appealed , and they were onely to judge of it , and not bishops or prelates . i have things to answer to this precedent . . that we have great reason to suspect the truth of it . . that if it were true , we have no reason to suspect the bishops to be excluded . . for the truth of the story . that there is great reason to suspect it , appears , in that it is the single relation of brompton , against the consent of the other historians , ( and some of them much ancienter , and nearer to that time , ) who mention k. edward's charging earl godwin with the death of his brother , not in parlament , but as they were at table together at winchester , upon the occasion of a saying of earl godwin's , upon the king 's cup-bearer's stumbling with one foot , and recovering with another ; see , saith he , how one brother helps another . upon which matt. westminster , knighton , and others say , that the king charged him about the death of his brother alfred . whatever the occasion was , our best historians of that time , malmsbury and ingulphus , say , it was at an entertainment at winchester , and that earl godwin died upon the place ; being choaked , as they say , with a morsel of bread he took with a great execration upon himself if he were not innocent . knighton saith , he was question'd for the death of his brother by hardecnute , and that he cleared himself , by saying he did nothing but by the king's command . but suppose edward to be never so weak a prince , is it likely this should be done by an appeal in parlament by the king himself ; and that afterwards , by the judgment of his earls and barons , he and his sons and kinsmen should make the king amends , by as much gold and silver as they could carry between their arms ? besides , brompton saith , this was done by godwin when he returned to england , after king edward's coming to the throne ; whereas malmsbury shews , that it was through earl godwin's interest , that ever he came to it ; and so the marrying his daughter would make any one believe . . but suppose it true . what reason is there to conclude the bishops not present , who were never absent through all the saxon times , after ethelbert's conversion , in any publick councils of the nation ? they had no canon then to be afraid of ; for that of the council of toledo was brought in by lanfranc . and it was not against the practice of those times . for if we believe as true a story as this of brompton , the archbishop of canterbury himself condemned king edward's mother emma to a trial by hot irons , which was present death without a miracle : and this it is said was done by the consent of the king and the bishops ; which is as good a precedent against temporal lords , as the other is against the bishops . however , this is certain , that the bishops then sate in the county-court at all iudgments . and whereas the authour of the letter would avoid this , by saying that no capital crimes were tried there ; the contrary is most certainly true . for the laws of king edward , as they were set forth by h. i. c. . mention the capitalia placita that were there held . and the authour of the ms. life of s. cuthbert saith , that when one of earl godwin's sons was earl of northumberland , and one hamel , a very bad man , was imprison'd by him , his friends interceded earnestly with him , nè capite plecteretur , that he should not lose his head . by which it appears , that cases capital were heard and determin'd in those courts , the bishop and earl sitting together in iudgment . and here the point is plainly gain'd , because the authour of the letter grants that the bishops sate in all iudgments in the county-courts , and then puts the matter upon this issue , whether capital crimes were there tried or not ; which i have clearly proved that they were . but i shall make another advantage of this against the authour of the peerage , &c. for it plainly overthrows that confident assertion of his , that without doubt there was a negative custom , that the prelates should not exercise iurisdiction in capital cases , so ancient as to be part of the fundamental contract of the nation . it were a thousand pities that such well-sounding words , so handsomely put together , should signifie nothing . i dare not be so positive as he is , but am of opinion , that if he could be perswaded to produce this fundamental contract of the nation , which i perceive he hath lying by him , it would not amount to so much as a blind manuscript . if it be said , that brompton onely mentions earls and barons , and bishops were not then made barons ; i answer , that baronies were brought into england by the conquerour , and therefore brompton must speak improperly , and consequently , taking it onely for a title of honour , he means no more then those who were the great men of that time , and so may take in the bishops too : of which more afterwards . but there is one thing more in the laws of h. i. ( which were onely a restoring k. edward's laws ) that implies that bishops had then a power of judging in cases capital ; which is c. . qui occiderit episcopum sit in arbitrio principis & episcoporum , he that killed a bishop was to be left to the will of the king and the bishops . which shews that they were to hear and examine the whole evidence , and to give judgment according to it . after the saxon times , the first precedent produced is of the edw. i. concerning nicolas segrave , who was summon'd to appear in parlament , and after his offences were open'd , the king advises onely with the temporal lords , who declared , such a man deserved to lose his life . but is he sure the bishops were not present ? no : he saith , that doth not appear by the record ; but it appears clearly they were not to meddle with it . how so ? the king declares , that he would have the advice comitum , baronum , magnatum , & aliorum de consilio suo . but is he sure they are not comprehended under magnates , and that there were no clergy-men at that time of the king's counsel ? what thinks he is william de hamilton , dean of york ▪ who was made lord chancellour ian. . edw. i. and this parlament was held the next sunday after s. matthias , which was the latter end of february ? and in the . year , ralph de baldock , bishop of london , was made lord chancellour : and scarce any other but church-men had that office all his days . the bishop of bath and wells was chancellour near twenty years of his reign ; after him the bishop of ely ; after him the dean of chichester ; and then comes the dean of york . and among the lords treasurers of his time ; were the archdeacon of dorset , the abbot of westminster , two bishops of bath and wells , whereof one was treasurer at this time . these two , i hope , we may suppose to be of the king's counsel in this business ; who we are certain were both church-men . and if they adjudged nic. de segrave worthy of death , who so likely to deliver that judgment as the chancellour ? but suppose these were not there , whom doth he mean by the magnates then distinct from earls and barons , who were of the house of peers ? mr. selden will inform him , if he needs it , that there were no dukes till the ii. of edw. iii. nor the title of marquess till r. ii. nor of vicount till h. vi. and yet here were magnates in parlament , who were neither earls nor barons : and therefore we must in all reason understand the great church-men , who were not so nice of meddling with criminal causes in parlament of the highest nature in the time of edw. i. as appears by the great cause so much agitated in parlament edw. i. concerning the earls of hereford and gloucester ; where this latter is charged with raising arms without commission , and committing murthers and horrible devastations in the lands belonging to the other ; and the king in parlament appoints the bishop of ely with others to be a committee for examination of this matter . and when they had both submitted to the king's pleasure , we have these remarkable words in the placita parlamentaria . per consilium archiepiscoporum , episcoporum , comitum , baronum , ceterorumque de consilio suo existentium , facere volens in premissis , & ut voluntas sua justa sit & rationabilis , prout decet , eorumque assensum in premissis petiit , & consilium . propter quod , habito tractatu diligenti coram ipso domino rege & consilio suo super predictis , tam ipsi domino regi quam ceteris prelatis & magnatibus , & singulis de consilio suo , videtur quoad comit. gloucestr . and then follows the sentence ; which i confess did not extend to life , but to a forfeiture of his estate to the king. however , we see hereby that the bishops were present at all the praeliminary debates , and the king asked their advice ; so that they had their votes in the sentence , whether it should extend to life or not . in the reign of edw. ii. we meet with a remarkable precedent in behalf of the bishops right , which is of a iudgment reversed made by the lords without the prelats viz. , the iudgment against the two spencers e. ii. which iudgment is said to be passed at oxford that year , but in the parlament at york , the same year , it was nulled and made void before the king , lords and commons ; and one of the reasons given for it is , because the lords spiritual , who were peers , assented not to it . this precedent had been cited and allowed by mr. pryn , in his plea for the lords ; and therefore it is to be wonder'd the authour of the letter takes no notice of it . but the later authour of the discourse about the bishops peerage and iurisdiction , owns the truth of the thing , saying , that the two iudgments aganst the two spencers were reversed edw. ii. for this cause , through the great favour and interest they then had at court. but then he thinks he hath taken off the force of this precedent , by saying that edw. iii. c. . this iudgment is declared good , and therefore the said reversal null and void ; and the two spencers upon this affirmance of the iudgment were executed . this last assertion every one knows to be a grievous mistake , that hath but looked into our history : for the spencers were executed before edw. iii. came to the crown ; the elder in october edw. ii. the other the latter end of november edw. ii. and whereas he insists upon the affirmance of the iudgment edw. iii. he had done well to have look'd a little farther , and then he would have found that act also repealed r. ii. so that if the act of ed. iii. which affirms the first judgment , may seem to take off the force of this precedent , the repealing of that act in the r. ii. restores it again , and leaves it in its full force . especially if it be considered , that the act of ed. iii. was not barely repealed , but declar'd in parlament to be unlawfull , because ed. ii. was living , and true king , and imprison'd by his subjects at the time of that very parlament of ed. iii. thus far this precedent is good . but i will conceal nothing that may with any colour be objected against it . and i cannot deny but what the authour of the letter objects , against the bishops constituting a proctor to represent them in capital causes , seems to be of equal force against this precedent , viz. that this parlament of the r. ii. and all that was done in it , was repeal'd in the h. iv. and if that be so , ( and those acts of state which then passed had not again been repealed ed. iv. ) then the repealing of that of . ed. iii. signifies nothing , and consequently the affirmance of the first iudgment against the two spencers is good notwithstanding that repeal . and therefore that we may examine this matter to the bottom , i shall set down the very words of the authour of the letter concerning it . speaking of the declaration made by the lawyers in the ed. iv. concerning the bishops making a procurator in capital causes , he hath these words : it is true , here is mention made of their making a proctor , which was error temporis , the errour of those times , grounded upon what was so lately done , ( as they looked upon it ) though irregularly done , in the last parlament of r. ii. whom they consider'd as their lawfull king ; and in truth he was so , the three henry's that came between being but vsurpers . and again , speaking of the same business of a proctor in the r. ii. he hath this remarkable passage : i have already shewed , that this whole parlament was repeal'd for the extravagant things that were done in it , of which this was one . and therefore nothing that was then done can signifie any thing to a leading case any ways to be followed ; and this as little as any : except it could be made appear , which i am confident it cannot , that some iudgment had been reversed upon that account , because the prelats were not present , and had not given their assent to it . now if i can make out these two things , . that the parlament of r. ii. was not legally repeal'd ; . that the iudgment against the two spencers was revers'd , and that the repeal of that reversal in ed. iii. was revok'd in r. ii. upon this very account , because the prelats were not present , and had not given their assent to it ; i hope the authour of the letter will be satisfy'd , that both this precedent , and the case of a proctor , are very significant in this cause ; and that there is a great difference between being confident , and certain of any thing . . that the parlament of r. ii. was not legally repeal'd . and for this i take the authour 's own acknowledgment , that r. ii. was in truth lawfull king , and that h. iv. was but an vsurper : nay , i add farther , that r. ii. was alive and in prison when h. iv. repeal'd the parlament of r. ii. for so it is said in the very act of repeal , that r. ii. late king of england was pursued , taken , put in ward , and yet remaineth in ward . and now i leave it to the authour of the letter , whether a parlament call'd by a lawfull king , and the acts of it , ought to be deem'd legally repeal'd by a parlament that was call'd by an usurper , and held whilst the lawfull king was alive , and detain'd in prison . . that the iudgment against the two spencers was revers'd , and the repeal of the reversal of it in ed. iii. revok'd in r. ii. and that upon this very account , because the prelats were not present , and had not given their assent to it ; which the authour of the letter is confident cannot be made appear . that this iudgment was reversed for this reason i have already shewn , viz. in the parlament at york ed. ii. and i shall now shew , that the repeal of that reversal in edw. iii. was revok'd in r. ii. and that upon the account mentioned . for in this parlament tho. le despenser , earl of gloucester , exhibited two bills , in which he prayeth that the revocation of the exile of the two spencers in ed. ii. might be brought before the king and confirmed , and that the repeal of the same made in the ed. iii. might be revoked . of which act of repeal these errours are assigned , among others : because the prelats , who are peers of the realm , did not assent to the iudgment ; and because it was made onely by the earls and barons , peers of the realm , &c. and because it was made against the form of the great charter of england , in which it is contain'd , that no man shall be exil'd , or otherwise destroyed , but by the lawfull iudgment of his peers , or by the law of the land. so that it seems it was look'd upon as a breach of the great charter , for the temporal lords to condemn a peer without the assent of the bishops , and that such a iudgment was not esteem'd a lawfull iudgment by his peers . and those errours of the first iudgment assign'd in the revocation of it in ed. ii. are allowed in this parlament of r. ii. and that revocation confirm'd , and the repeal of it in ed. iii. revok'd upon the same account . i shall onely observe , that in this parlament ( as before in ed. ii. ) the bishops are declared to be peers ; peers of the realm , rot. . peers in parlament , rot. . & ; but most fully and distinctly in the roll last cited , peers of the realm in parlament . of which farther use may be made in the last chapter concerning the peerage of the bishops . and now to sum up the force of this precedent for the iurisdiction of the bishops in cases of treason . here is a reversal of a iudgment , because made without the assent of the prelats , by the parlament at york in ed. ii. and whereas it is said this reversal was repeal'd , and the first iudgment affirm'd in ed. iii. i have shew'd , that this was no legal repeal , because ed. ii. was alive , and lawfull king , ( or else ed. iii. could never have been so ) in the time of that first parlament of ed. iii. and consequently ed. iii. at that time was an usurper , and the proceedings of that parlament null and void . so that the reversal in ed. ii. stands good , notwithstanding the repeal in ed. iii. besides that this repeal ( whatever it was ) is solemnly revok'd in r. ii. and h. iv. who revers'd all the proceedings of the parlament of r. ii. during the life of r. ii. is acknowledg'd by the authour of the letter to have been an vsurper , and r. ii. to have been a lawfull king. and now i think that this precedent hath all the advantage that can be , and that the iurisdiction of the bishops in cases of treason could not have been asserted in a higher manner , then to have a iudgment in case of treason solemnly revers'd in two parlaments for this very cause , because the bishops , who are peers , assented not to it : and this precedent own'd by the house of commons , in their petition to have a common proctor appointed by the clergy , in this very parlament of r. ii. as is acknowledg'd by the authour of the letter . to conclude this matter ; whether the acts of parlament which contain this declaration of the peerage of bishops , and their iurisdiction in cases of treason , were sufficiently repeal'd or not ; this solemn assertion of it in two several parlaments , together with the petition of the commons mentioned before , are a most clear evidence , that in the general opinion of the king , lords , and commons , this iurisdiction did of right belong to the bishops . and i am sure they are a demonstration against the authour of the peerage his assertion , of a negative custome , ancient as the constitution of the nation , that prelats should not exercise iurisdiction in capital cases . for had this been a clear and undoubted custom from the first original of this nation , it is morally impossible it could have entred into the minds of two parlaments , solemnly to have raised this doubt , whether a judgment given in a case of treason by the temporal lords without the assent of the bishops were valid , and to have determin'd that it was not ; when yet there was no manner of reason to imagine that the bishops ever had any jurisdiction in such cases , nay , when there was an immemorial custome and usage to the contrary , namely , that the temporal lords had in all times exercised this jurisdiction alone , and the bishops had been excluded from any share in it . and in the apology of adam d'orleton , bishop of hereford , and after of winchester , for his imprisoning r. de baldock , a great confident of hugh despencer's , he declares , that the reason why he was carried to newgate was through the violence of the people ; although , saith he , the parlament then sitting , there was no cause of fear but justice would be done . his words are , domino rege , praelatis , comitibus , ac aliis terrae optimatibus lundoniae tunc congregatis & praesentibus , pro iustitia ibidem in parlamento convocatis omnibus exhibenda . which shews that the prelats then did sit in matters of justice in the house of lords , and in cases capital ; for this r. de baldock was arraigned at hereford for the same crimes that hugh despencer was . but the main strength of the cause is supposed to lie in the precedents produced out of the rolls of parlament from the edw. iii. to the h. vi. the force of these precedents will be better understood , if we consider these things . i. that many of them are meer negative testimonies . so edw. iii. at the trial of roger mortimer , it is said , the earls , barons and peers of the realm were present , therefore the bishops were not ▪ edw. iii. onely the great ones returned , therefore the bishops did not . so in the case of sir iohn grey . from whence he inferrs , that the bishops were not to iudge so much as of a battery . edw. iii. in sir william thorp's case , the grantz de parlament were asked their advice , therefore not the bishops . r. ii. in the case of weston and gomenitz , the bishops not mention'd ; but other lords , barons and bannerets . sir ralph de ferrer's case r. ii. the bishops not present , because not comprised under les seigneurs de parlament . the like in sir iohn oldcastle ' s case h. v. the question , he saith , is , whether bishops be comprehended under les seigneurs de cest present parlament . in the earl of devonshire ' s case h. vi. the strength lies in this , that the peers are onely mention'd ; and he supposes no man will say , the bishops were his peers or lords of the realm . so that here are eight precedents , that are no more then negative testimonies : concerning which in general , the authour of the iurisdiction of the house of peers asserted hath a good observation ; viz. that one , or two , or twenty precedents in the negative , nay , i say more , were the number equal as many in the negative as in the affirmative , yet it could not disprove their iurisdiction : it would onely shew , their lordships were free agents , to doe it , or not to doe it , as they saw cause ; but their iurisdiction remained entire still , to doe it whensoever they would . so i say here ; supposing that the spiritual lords were not present in these cases , it onely shews , that they were free agents , and might withdraw at some times , and be present at others : which cannot overthrow their right , for these reasons . ( . ) several of his negative precedents , if they prove any thing , prove the bishops were not there , when he confesses they might have been there . as , . in cases of misdemeanours . at the trial of sir iohn de lee , ed. iii. being charged with several misdemeanours , the record saith , the prelats were present . edw. iii. several persons were accused by the commons for misdemeanours , and the bishops he confesseth were present ; as rich , lions , iohn lord latimer , william ellis , iohn peecher , lord iohn nevil : at all these trials the bishops , saith he , were present ; and no body says but they might . so in the case of alice perrers , edw. iii. the record saith , the prelats were present , and gave iudgment as to banishment , and forfeiture of her estate . r. ii. mich. de la pool , lord chancellour , was accused by the commons for several misdemeanours before the king , prelats , and the lords . here he yields the prelats were iudges of misdemeanours together with other lords . and yet if several of his negative precedents do prove any thing , they prove too much , viz. that the bishops ought not to be present at the trial of misdemeanours : for , he saith , the bishops were not present at the trial of weston and gomenitz , r. ii. nor at the trial of the bishop of norwich r. ii. nor at such iudgments as that of sir william de thorp edw. iii. who was condemned for bribery : and yet he yields they were at the trial of mich. de la pool r. ii. but if they ought not to be present at those of ed. iii. and r. ii. and r. ii. neither ought they to have been present at the trial of mich. de la pool . either therefore his argument doth not prove they were not present at the former , being onely from general words ; or they ought not to have been present at the latter , which he confesses they were . this will best appear by comparing the cases together . r. ii. the commons deliver in a schedule to the lords of their demands , before they would proceed to a subsidy ; among which one was , that all such who without cause had lost or given up any castle , or town , or fortress , to the dishonour of the king , or dammage of the people , may be put to their answer before the lords and commons that parlament . here was no particular impeachment of these persons ; but upon this the lords sent for these two persons who were prisoners in the tower upon this account ; and the charge against them was , delivering two towns in flanders without commission . weston made a long and plausible defence , to which no answer was given ; yet both were condemned to die . the bishop of norwich was charged with several miscarriages and misdemeanours , saith he : why might not the bishops be present at this trial ? to that he saith , he was charged with one capital crime , viz. betraying graveling to the french : but he confesseth , he cleared himself of this , before they came to iudgment : and yet he would have the bishops excluded at this iudgment ; and that of sir william elmham , sir thomas trivet , and others ; but confesses they were present at the trial and iudgment of mich. de la pool . let us then see , what kind of trial this was . he was impeached in the name of the commons of england , and articles were exhibited against him . the main were , concerning defrauding the king , and misimploying the aids granted to the king last parlament , whereby much mischief happen'd to the kingdom : as may appear by the rolls , and the articles printed in knighton . upon these articles , the record saith that the commons prayed that iudgment of death might pass upon him , as it did upon sir william de thorp for receiving li. by way of bribery . and yet this iudgment of sir william de thorp is one of the precedents against the bishops being present ; when he allows that they were present at the whole trial of this mich. de la pool , when a great minister of state was so hotly charged by the commons , for offences of so great a nature , and which in their judgment deserved no less then death . from whence it follows , by his own confession , that the bishops may be present , when the ministers of state are impeached by the commons of such crimes which in their iudgment deserve no less then death . . in acts of attainder , when the houses proceed in a legislative way , he grants the bishops may be present ; and yet if some of his precedents signifie any thing , they prove they ought not to be present at the passing of them . as , . in the case of roger mortimer and others accused and tried in parlament ed. iii. he confesseth the roll cannot be read , and therefore referrs to ed. iii. where roger of wigmore desires that the attainder may be examin'd : which was reversed by act of parlament , and therefore we may justly suppose the iudgment given against him was ratified in parlament . and some of our historians say , he was condemned judicio parlamenti . and in the petition of roger wigmore , he prays that the said statute and iudgment may be reversed and annulled . if therefore the prelats could not be present here , then they are not to be present in the legislative way : if they were present in acts of attainder , then this general negative way of arguing proves nothing ; for then the bishops were comprehended under the name of peers : which , without any reason , he saith , the bishops cannot pretend to be ; when it is notorious that they challenged it in parlament r. ii. and it was then allowed , as well as their protestation . . in the case of the murther of iohn imperial , r. ii. an act of parlament passed to make it treason : and he proves the bishops had no vote in it , nor were present at the preparing it . and yet he confesses , that the bishops have a right to sit in all acts of attainder , because they sit then in their legislative capacity . therefore these negative precedents prove nothing . ( . ) the insufficiency of these negative precedents appears by this , that we can make it appear by good testimonies , that the bishops have been often comprehended under the general titles of grantz , peers , and lords of parlament , without any express mention made of them . and because the great force of many of his testimonies lies wholly in this , that the bishops are not comprehended under the names of grantz , seigneurs , and peers , i shall endeavour to make it clear beyond exception , that if the precedents must be determined by the general words , all the advantage lies on the bishops side . it is certain that in elder times the baronagium anglie did take in all the lords of parlament , both spiritual and temporal . but i betake my self to the expressions used in the records ; and because the matter of the debate is confined within the times of ed. ii. and iv. i shall take notice of the language of parlament within that time ; reserving that of their peerage to the proper place for it . i begin , as the authour of the letter doth , with edw. iii. and in that year n. . the record runs thus ; et est assentu & accorde per nostre seigneur le roi , & tout le grantz en plcyn parlement : where a law was passed concerning trial by peers ; and in the passing of a law our authour allows the bishops to be present . but it is more plain n. . accorde per nostre seigneur le roi , & les grantz de mesinme le parlement it is agreed by the king , and the great ones in parlament . but that the bishops are comprehended under thesegrantzis evident ; for it is there said , that the petitions of edmund earl of kent and margaret countess of kent , to which that agreement referrs , were read before the king , the prelats , the counts , the barons , and other grantz of the parlament . in the same year , n. . we meet with les preres des prielatz & autres grantz , the petition of the bishops and other great men : and then it follows , nostre seigneur le roi en pleyn parlement , per assent , accord , prieres & conseal des ditz prelatz & autres grantz our lord the king in full parlament , by the assent , accord , petition and advice of the said prelats and other grantz . which shews that they are some of the grantz of parlament . ; ; ed. iii. n. . touz les prelatz & autres grantz : n. . grantz in general is used in the debate between the abbot of crowland and sir thomas wake : and n. . le roi & as autres grantz en pleyn parlement : n. . item fu accorde per le roi & touz le grantz en mesme le parlement , auxibien per prelatz come per autres ; it was agreed by the king and the great men of the parlament , as well by the prelats as others . nothing can be plainer then that here the bishops are called grantz , as well as the other lords of parlament . ed. iii. n. . devant nostre seigneur le roi , & touz le prelatz , & autres grantz : the articles were read before the king , the prelats , and other great men . if the bishops had not been comprehended under grantz , the record would have onely used grantz , and not autres grantz . but the same expression is again used n. . in the second part of the rolls of that year , n. . we find three several ways of expressing the persons then present : the first , les prelatz , countes , baronns , & autres grantz du parlement ; the next is , queux prelatz , & autres grantz ; the third is , touz le grantz en mesme le parlement : and all these are used to express the same persons . and again n. . touz les grantz du dit parlement ; which are there opposed to chivalers des countez ; and are more distinctly mention'd before in these words , les ditz prelatz , countes , barouns , & autres grantz , & les chivalers des countes , & tote la conumune . sometimes the grantz are taken in general , for all of the house of peers ; and the commons for the lower house . so ed. iii. n. . il assentuz per lui , les grantz , & la dit comunalte a son parlement : and again , ditz grantz & de tote la com̄e susditz : and , le roi per assent des grantz commanda a la ditz com̄e . from these examples , and many more which might , if it were needfull , be produced , it evidently appears that the bishops were grantz in parlament , according to the language of that time : and therefore the precedents produced wherein onely the grantz are mention'd , are of no force at all against the presence of the bishops . and that assertion of the authour of the peerage , &c. appears to be without any ground , viz. that the bishops are never spoken of in any record but by the name of bishops or prelats , or some such name , to distinguish them from the laiety . these general negatives are very bold and dangerous things ; and one affirmative overthrows them . but i have produced many instances to the contrary , and might do many more . such men who dare venture upon such bold sayings , must be presumed to have read over all the records themselves ; and must presume that none else ever so much as looked into them . but that authour discovers too much his second-hand learning in these matters ; and we might have wanted several of his precedents , had it not been for mr. selden's baronage . as to the title of seigneurs du parlament , being common to the bishops , i am prevented by another hand . i shall onely adde two precedents more , not taken notice of by others . the one r. ii. the answer of mich. de la pole is said to becoram magnatibus & communitate in parlamento ; where the authour of the letter confesseth the bishops were present , and therefore comprehended under themagnates . the other h. vi. one philipps complained against the bishop of london to the house of commons : they sent the complaint up to the lords : the bishop asks the advice of the house ; who gave this answer , non consentancum fuit aliquem procerum alicui in eo loco responsurum . which had signified nothing , if the bishops had not been allowed to be proceres regni . so much for his negative precedents . ii. some of his precedents were condemned in parlament to be irregular and erroneous in other respects ; and therefore it is no wonder if they should be so in this . . the iudgment upon roger mortimer , earl of march , ed. iii. was reversed in parlament ed. iii as defective and erroneous in all points ; being without any proof or witnesses , or bringing the person to answer for himself . and therefore it was an honour for the bishops not to be present . . the iudgment upon haxey , r. ii. is confessed by the authour to be most unjust , and would not onely have shaken , but wholly destroyed the very foundation of parlament ; and reversed h. iv. as against right and course of parlaments . and he confesseth the bishops were present at condemning it , but not at passing it . which also makes much for their honour . iii. some of his precedents prove that when the bishops did withdraw , they did it voluntarily , and took care to preserve their right , either by protestation , or appointing a proxy . [ . ] that they withdrew voluntarily . so ed. iii. it is said , that the bishops did withdraw at that time , being of opinion that it did not properly belong to them to give counsel about keeping the peace , and punishing of malefactours : and so , saith he , they went away by themselves , and returned no more . but although this proves nothing but a voluntary act of the bishops in withdrawing ; yet the representation made of this matter is so partial , and different from the record , that i cannot but take a little more notice of it . . he saith , that the prelats being of opinion that it belonged not properly to them to give counsel about keeping the peace , or punishing such evils , they went away by themselves , and returned no more . thereby insinuating , that they looked on this matter as wholly unfit for them to meddle in , and thereupon left the house . whereas the words of the record are , si alerent mesmes les prelatz & les procurators de la clergie per eux mesmes a conseiler de choses susdites , & les ditz countes , barons & autres grantz per eux mesmes : so the prelats and proctors of the clergy went by themselves toconsult about the aforesaid matters , and the earls , barons and other great men by themselves . so that this withdrawing was but into several committees , as was usual at that time , by which the sense of the estates was best understood ; and then they met together , and agreed upon what was fit to be made a law. this appears by edw. iii a quen jour de ioedi eu ont trete & deliberation , cest assavoir les ditz prelats per eux mesmes , & les ditz countes , barons , & autres grantz , per eux mesmes ; & auxint les chivalers des countes per eux mesmes : upon which thursday they enter'd upon debate , ( concerning the news from scotland ) the prelats by themselves , the lords and other great men by themselves ; and so the knights of counties by themselves . the houses being then not wholly separate , nor always together ; but dividing into committees , and not into houses , as occasion required ; and then joyning together to express their common sense . so ed. iii. when the occasion of their meeting was deliver'd , which was an extraordinary message from rome , the pope sending for tribute and homage , it is said , the bishops went by themselves , and the other lords by themselves , and the commons by themselves ; and then met together , and declared their unanimous resolution to oppose to the uttermost any such demand . such a withdrawing of the bishops it was in this case . for they and the proctors of the clergy ( whether by them we understand the procuratores cleri , who , according to the modus tenendi parlamentum , made a part of the parlament ; or the proxies of the absent bishops , who were allowed to supply their places , as appears by ed. i. and the case of the bishops of durham and carlile in the parlament at westminster ed. ii. and r. ii. and many other instances afterwards ) thought fit to consider in this matter what was most proper for them . and accordingly we find ecclesiastical censures added to the civil sanctions , and brought in by the prelats at that time , which are still extant in the record . . whereas he saith , the bishops returned no more , the record saith the contrary . for it expresly saith , that the orders for keeping of the peace agreed on by the committee of lords were read before the king , the bishops , the knights of counties , and the commons , and did please them all ; & per nostre seigneur le roi , prelatz , countes , baronns , & autres grantz , & auxint per les chivalers de countez & gentz de commun , furent pleynment assentuz & accordez . and the same is immediately said of the censures brought in by the bishops . which made me extremely wonder at his saying that the bishops returned no more ; whereas it is very plain , they did not onely return , but the orders were read before them , and they did give their assent to the passing of them . in the parlament r. ii. that it was onely a voluntary withdrawing , i prove from the concessions of the authour of the letter ; viz. that they might be present in all acts of attainder . for it is evident from the printed statutes , that they proceeded by way of attainder against the ministers of state ; and therefore they might have been present , if they pleased , upon the authour 's own grounds . how is it then possible for him to understand de iure non possumus , in their protestation r. ii. of the law of the land , when he grants that in all acts of attainder , they may de jure be present and give their votes ? [ . ] when they did solemnly withdraw , they took care to preserve their right two ways ; ( . ) by protestation , ( . ) by proxie . . by protestation , saving their right ; which was receiv'd by the house , and enter'd : of which before . the late authour of the peerage and iurisdiction of the lords spiritual will not allow the protestation to be an argument of any right ; neither , saith he , doth the permission or allowance of any protestation yield the right which the protester is desirous to save , but onely saves the right which he had before , if he had any . whereas the authour of the letter makes it as good as a law , being entred in the iournal-book , that such a thing was agreed by the king and the two houses . i will not deny that the former authour speaks more reasonably in this matter , when he saith , that the utmost a protestation can doe is , to anticipate a conclusion , or estoppell ; i.e. to provide that the doing of any such act as is contained in the protestation , shall not be construed to the prejudice of the party , so as to bar or conclude him from claiming afterwards that which in truth is his right . it is true , this protestation passed with greater solemnity then usually ; for it was with the consent of the king and both houses : but however it retained the nature of a protestation . and there was no distinction at that time between a iournal-book and the rolls of parlament . for a good authour assures us , the iournals of the vpper house began h. viii . and therefore the authour of the peerage , &c. deserved no such severe reproof on that account . but this is all i plead for , viz. that this protestation was a salvo to their right ; which meeting with no contest or opposition in the houses , but passing with unanimous consent , is a certain argument the houses did not think there was any law to exclude them . and therefore the authour of the iudicature very well saith , that had it not been for the canon-law , ( for which he referrs to the synodal constitutions at westminster h. ii. which is onely reviving the council of toledo's canon , ) they might have been present both by common law , and by the law of god. . by proxie , or one common procurator to appear in parlament for them , and to vote in the name of the whole body . this was receiv'd and allow'd r. ii. upon the petition of the house of commons , because iudgments had been reversed without their concurrence . against this the authour of the letter objects many things which are easily answer'd . . that hence it appears they could not be personally present . on the contrary , from hence it follows they had a parlamentary right to be present ; although they said by canon-law they could not . . that it was never practised but in this one parlament . that is strange , when himself confesseth , that it passed for good law ed. iv. term. pasch. n. . and the same is cited by stamford placit . cor. l. . f. . to which judgment of the lawyers , and the greatest of their time , ( for littleton was then judge ed. iv. ) we have a very extraordinary answer called error temporis ; which will equally make void the law or iudgment of any age. but is it possible , that should pass for law ed. iv. which was never practised but once r. ii. and the contrary practice had been onely allowed all the intermediate times ? thus a short answer may be given to the constitution of clarendon , it was error temporis ; to the allowing the protestation r. ii. it was error temporis ; and so on to the end of the chapter . if there were any error temporis in this matter , it lay in this , that they took this precedent r. ii. for a sufficient ground , that the bishops should onely appear by proxy in such cases ; whereas the canon-law being taken away since the reformation as to these matters , their right of personal appearing doth return to them of course . . that this parlament was repealed h. iv. but this i have answer'd already from his own words , wherein he acknowledges him to be an vsurper , and consequently the repeal not made by a legal parlament . and this repeal was again taken off ed. iv. . that it is not at all parlamentary , for one or two men to represent a whole body . the consequence then is , that they ought to enjoy their own personal right . all that we urge from hence is , that the bishops kept up their right still by their proxies , when they thought the canons would not allow voting in their own persons . iv. some of his precedents do prove , that after the protestations and proxies , they did assert their own personal right , and were present both at examinations , and at the whole proceedings . . at examinations . as in the case of sir william rickill h. iv. who was brought to parlament before the king and the two houses , the lords spiritual and temporal and the commons then assembled together . and he grants the bishops were present at his examination . . at the whole proceedings , h. vi. where he confesseth the bishops were not onely personally present , but did act and bear a principal part in aiudicialproceeding in parlament , in a case that was in it self capital , viz. of william de la pole , duke of suffolk . which is very fully related by the authour , and needs no repetition . all that he hath to say to this , is , that the whole proceedings were irregular , and not to be drawn into precedent . whereas a great lawyer in his time , sir e. c. made use of this as a sufficient precedent in a case of great moment , about commitment upon a general accusation . but there is not any irregularity expressed or intimated in the bishops appearing , and judging as other lords did ; and the judgment was not reversed because of their being there , as we have shewed others have been for their being absent . v. none of all his precedents do prove that the bishops were ever excluded from sitting , by any vote of the house of lords or commons . that they might voluntarily withdraw , we deny not ; or not be present at giving of iudgment out of regard to the canons : which is all that is proved by the precedent of iohn hall h. iv. of the earls of kent , huntington , &c. h. iv. of sir iohn oldcastle h. v. and of sir iohn mortimer h. vi. and this we have made appear was done by them out of regard to the canon-law ; the force of which being taken away by the reformation , the bishops are thereby restored to their just parlamentary right . neither can any disusage be a bar to that right , since the ground of that disusage was something then supposed to be in force , which is now removed by the reformation . and i fear , if this kind of arguing be sufficient to overthrow the bishops right , much stronger of the same kind may be used to overthrow the king's supremacy in mattters of religion . so great care ought men to have , lest under the colour of a mighty zeal against popery , they do overthrow the very principles of our reformation . vi. there are precedents upon record in the rolls of parlament , which are not mention'd by the authour of the letter , which do prove that the bishops were present at the examination of treason and capital offences in parlament . and that within the time , wherein he pretends to give an account of all the trials recorded in the rolls . which shews how easily men pass by those things they have no mind to see . i begin with ed. iii. and i must doe him that right , as to say , that he doth not onely mention the trial of roger mortimer , but of sir simon bereford and others who were accused and tried in parlament . but pretending , that the roll of that parlament is so defaced that it cannot be read , he runs to that of ed. iii. and so gently passes over all the other trials which are in the record , and are more plain and express as to this matter . among the articles against roger mortimer , ed. l of march , one is , that after he knew certainly the death of edw. ii. he made use of instruments to perswade edward earl of kent , that king's brother , that he was still living , and so drew him into a design for his rescue ; for which he was attainted at winchester , and there suffer'd death for it . among these instruments the chief was one mautravers , who for that reason was attainted this parlament : and the words of the record are , trestouz les pieres , counts & barons assemblez a cest parlement a west . si ont examine estraitement , & sur ce sont assentuz & accordez , que john mautravers si est culpable de la mort esmon count de kent , &c. all the peers , counts and barons assembled in this present parlament , upon strict examination do assent and agree , that john mautravers is guilty of the death of edmund earl of kent . here we have the strict examination of a capital case in parlament , and all the peers are said to be present at it . it is used as an argument by the authour of the letter , that in the case of roger mortimer , the bishops could not be comprized under the general name of peers , since the barons are first in rank . but here the peers are mentioned before counts and barons ; and it will be impossible for him to assign any other peers at that time , that were named before them , but the prelats ; who frequently are so put in the records of that time : as in the same parlament n. . prelatz , countes , barons ; n. . et per assent des ditz prelatz , countes , barons ; so again n. . . . . . but the authour of the letter saith , they cannot pretend to be peers of the realm . let him name then other peers of the realm at that time , who were neither counts nor barons , and were before them . but if we are to judge who are peers of the realm by the records of parlament , i do not question but i shall make it evident , that the bishops were so esteemed ; and that some persons , who pretend to great skill in records , either have not searched so diligently , or have not observed so carefully about this matter as they might have done . but of this afterwards . in the same parlament judgment was passed upon boges de boyons , iohn deveril , thomas gurnay , william ocle ; but being by way of attainder , and not upon particular examination , which is mentioned in the case of mautravers , i pass them over . in the pleas of the crown held before the king in this parlament , we find another case which relates to our present debate ; viz. of thomas lord berkely and knight , who was arraigned for the death of king ed. ii. who came before the king in pleno parlamento , in full parlament , and there pleaded not guilty ; and declared he was ready to clear himself as the king's court should advise . then they proceeded to particular examination of him , how he could acquitt himself , being lord of the castle where the king was murthered , he being committed to his custody and john matravers . he pleaded for himself , that he was then sick at bradley , and knew nothing of it . they charged him , that the keepers of the castle were of his own appointing ; and therefore he was bound to answer for them . he answer'd , that they with matravers having receiv'd the king into their custody , he was not to be blamed for what they did : and for this he put himself upon his country . at the day appointed for his trial , he appears again coram domino rege in pleno parlamento ; and the iury returned him not guilty . but because he appointed gurney and ocle to keep his castle of berkely , by whom the king was murthered , the king appoints him a day the next parlament to hear his sentence ; and in the mean time he was committed to the custody of ralph nevil steward of the king's house . in the next parlament edw. iii. n. . the prelats , earls and barons petition the king , that he might be discharged of his mainprisors : the which was granted , and a farther day given him to appear next parlament . but we reade no more of him , till the summons he had ed. iii. as one of the lords in parlament . the great force of this precedent lies in understanding what is meant by appearing before the king in full parlament . if under this the bishops be comprehended , then this will be an uncontroulable precedent of the presence of the bishops in the examination of a case capital . what the importance of this phrase of full parlament is , will best appear by the use of it in the records of that time . ed. iii. n. . et est assentu & accorde per nostre seigneur le roi , & touz les grantz en pleyn parlement . where it was agreed , that the procedings at that time by the lords against those who were not peers should not be drawn into consequence ; and that the peers should be charged onely to try peers . which hath all the formality of an act of parlament : and therefore all the estates were present , n. . accorde est per nostre seigneur le roi & son conseil en pleyn parlement . which was an act of pardon concerning those who followed the earl of lancaster . ed. iii. n. . we have the particular mention of the bishops , as some of those who do make a full parlament . accorde est per nostre seigneur le roi , prelatz , countes , barons , & autres grantz du roialm en pleyn parlement : and n. . en pleyn parlement si prierent les prelatz , countes , barons , & autres grantz de mesme le parlement , a nostre seigneur le roi , &c. ed. iii. n. . the archbishop of canterbury made his oration en pleyn parlement , which is explained by en la presence nostre seigneur le roi , & de touz les prelatz , & autres grantz . n. . si est accorde & assentu per touz en pleyn parlement : who those were , we are told before in the same number , viz. les prelatz , countes , baronns , & touz les autres somons a mesme le parlement . which is the clearest explication of full parlament , in the presence of all those who were summon'd to parlament . from whence it follows , that where a full parlament was mention'd at that time , the bishops were certainly present ; and consequently did assist at the trial of thomas lord berkely , who appeared before the king in full parlament : as nich. de segrave did ed. i. and there the bishops are expresly mention'd as present ; as appears by what hath been said before concerning his case . h. iv. henry hotspur , son to the earl of northumberland , was declared a traitour by the king and lords in full parlament ; and the same day , the father was , upon examination , acquitted of treason by the peers . it is not said that this was done in full parlament , as the other was : but there are several circumstances which make it very probable the bishops were then present . ( . ) when the earl of northumberland took his oath of fidelity to the king , he did it , saith the record , upon the cross of the archbishop ; which was to be carried before him , if he went out of the house . ( . ) the archbishop of canterbury pray'd the king , that forasmuch as himself and other bishops were suspected to be in piercie's conspiracy , that the earl might upon his oath declare the truth : who thereupon did clear them all . which shews that the archbishop was then present in the house . and for the same reason that he was present , we may justly suppose the other bishops to have been so too . ( . ) the earl of northumberland beseeched the lords and earls and commoners , that if he brake this oath , they would intercede no more with the king for him . now the better to understand this , we are to consider , that h. iv. takes notice in his declaration upon the rebellion of sir henry piercy , that the earl of northumberland and his son gave out , that they could have no access to the king , but by the mediation of the bishops and earls , and therefore did beseech them to intercede with the king for them . it is not then probable , that those should be now left out , when the words are large enough to comprehend them , and no one circumstance is brought to exclude them . for that general one , of their not being peers , will be fully refuted afterwards . but that which puts this out of dispute is , ( . ) that the record saith , n. . the commons not onely gave the king thanks for the pardon of the earl of northumberland , but the lords spiritual and temporal , in these remarkable words ; et au●i mesmes les cōes remercierment les seigneurs espirituelx & temporelx de lour bon & droiturell judgment quils avoient fait come piers du parlement : and likewise the commons gave thanks to the lords spiritual and temporal for the good and right iudgment which they had given in this case as peers of parlament . which is a clear precedent of the bishops judging in a capital case , and that as peers . h. vi. n. . iohn lord talbott had accused iames boteler , earl of ormond , of sundry treasons before the king and his great council ; and after , before iohn duke of bedford , constable of england . the king takes advice of his parlament about it ; and then it is expresly said in the record , de avisamento & assensit dominorum spiritualium & temporalium ac communitatis regni anglie , in eodem parlamento existent ' , facta fuit quedam abolitio delationis , nuntiationis , & detectionis predict , &c. here the king adviseth with the lords spiritual in an accusation of treason ; and therefore they must be present in the debates concerning it . i leave now any considerate person to judge impartially on which side the right lies . for on the one side , . there is the constitution of clarendon interpreted by h. ii. and the bishops at northampton . . a protestation of their right enter'd , and allowed by king , lords and commons , r. ii. . a reversing of iudgments owned by parlament for want of their presence , r. ii. . a preserving of their right by proxie , when they thought their personal attendance contrary to the canons . . a bar to a total discontinuance of their personal right , by an allowed precedent h. vi. . a restoring them to their former right , by removing of the force of the canon-law upon the reformation . . no one law or precedent produced for excluding them , even in those times , when they thought the canons did forbid their presence . . several precedents upon record , wherein they were present at examinations and debates about cases capital . on the other side , . the precedents are general , and negative . . or relating to such cases wherein they are allowed to be present . . or of iudgments condemned as erroneous by parlament . . or of voluntary withdrawing , with protestation of their right , and making of proxies . . or of not being present at the passing of iudgment out of regard to the canon-law . and now on which side the right lies , let the authour of the letter himself judge . chap. iv. the peerage of the bishops cleared ; how far they make a third estate in parlament . objections against it answered . there remain two things to be considered , which are put in by way of postscript by the authour of the letter : the one concerns the peerage of the bishops , the other their being a third estate in parlament . . concerning their peerage . to prove this two statutes had been alledged , ed. iii. c. . and h. v. c. . and the opinion of iudges and lawyers out of the year-books . but although these had been very significant , if they had been against them ; they have the hard fortune to signify nothing , when they are for them . a meer protestation becomes good law , very substantial law , if it be supposed to make against the bishops ; and yet in that very protestation the right of peerage is expresly challenged , ( as well as it is asserted and taken for granted in the statutes mention'd . ) is that part of the protestation invalid ? and must nothing pass for law but what is against them ? is it credible that a right of peerage should be owned and received in acts of parlament , in protestations , in year-books , time after time ; and no opposition made against it by the temporal lords all that time , in case they believed the bishops had challenged that which by no means did belong to them ? did not the temporal lords understand their own privileges ? or were they willing to suffer the bishops to assume their titles to themselves without the least check or contradiction , and let their protestations be enter'd in the rolls of parlament without any contrary protestation ? i do not question but the authour of the letter did reade the bishops protestation at large in the parlament-rolls r. ii. and can any thing be plainer , then that therein they challenge a right of peerage to themselves , ut pares regni — cum caeteris regni paribus , & c. ? and this protestation , he saith , was enter'd by consent of the king , lords temporal , and commons ; as is expressed in the rolls . were the temporal lords awake ? or were they mean and low-spirited men ? no ; they were never higher then at this time , when the king himself durst not withstand them . what could it be then , but meer conviction of their just right of peerage , which made them suffer such a protestation as that to pass , after so solemn and unusual a manner , and to be enrolled par commandment du roy , & assent des seigneurs temporels & communs ; as it is in the rolls ? was all this onely a complement to the potent clergy at that time ? but who can imagine that king , lords and commons should complement at that rate , as to suffer the bishops to challenge a peerage to themselves in parlament , if they had not an undoubted right to it ? this one argument is sufficient to convince any reasonable man. especially when we consider , that in the same parlament , before the protestation was brought in , a motion was made n. . by all the lords spiritual and temporal , which they claimed come leur libertez & franchise , as their liberty and privilege , that all weighty matters moved in this parlament , or to be moved in any to come , touchant pieres de la terre , concerning the peers of the realm , should be determin'd , adjudged and discussed by the course of parlament ; and not by the civil , nor by the common law of the land , used in inferiour courts of the realm . the which claim , liberty and franchise , the king most willingly allowed and granted in full parlament . from whence it is evident , that the king and parlament did allow the right of peerage in the lords spiritual ; for it is said expresly in the record , that all the spiritual as well as temporal lords joyned in this claim : which being allowed them in full parlament , is an evidence beyond contradiction of their right of peerage . but against this no less is pretended then magna charta , viz. that every man who is tried at the king's suit must be tried by his peers . now if a bishop be tried for any capital offence , he is tried by the commoners , and that is the common law of england ; it hath ever been so , never otherwise : then must commoners be his peers , and he and commoners must be pares . to this argument , how strong soever it appears , these two things may be justly answer'd . . that the matter of fact cannot be made out , that a bishop hath always been tried by commoners . . that if it could , it doth not overthrow their peerage in parlament . ( . ) that the matter of fact cannot be made out , viz. that if a bishop be tried for a capital offence , he is tried by the commoners ; that it hath ever been so , never otherwise . for in ed. iii. iohn stratford , archbishop of canterbury , was at the king's suit accused of capital crimes , viz. of no less then treason , and conspiracy with the french king. he put himself upon his trial in parlament . a parlament was called ; and he at first refused admission into the house ; which he challenged tanquam major par regni post regem , & uocem primam in parlamento habere debens , as the first peer of the realm after the king , and having the first uote in parlament . upon which , and the intercession of his friends , he is admitted into the house ; and there he put himself upon the triall of his peers . at which time a great debate arose in the house , which continued a whole week ; and it was resolved , that the peers should be tried onely by peers in parlament . whereupon the archbishop had peers appointed to examine the articles against him : bishops , viz. london , hereford , bath , and exceter ; earls , arundel , salisbury , huntingdon , and suffolk ; and barons , percy , wake , basset , and nevil . here we have all that can be desired in the case . here is a bishop tried at the king's suit , and for a capital crime ; and yet not tried by commoners , but by his peers , and that after long debate in the house concerning it . if it be said , that he was tried by the lords as iudges in parlament , and not as his peers ; it is answer'd , . then bishops are iudges in parlament in cases capital : for so this was , and bishops appointed to examine it . . the debate in the house was about trial of peers by their peers ; and upon that it was resolved , that the archbishop should be tried by the house . for the king designed to have him tried in the exchequer for the matters objected against him , and the steward of the king's house and lord chamberlain would not suffer him to enter into the house of lords , till he had put in his answer in the exchequer . upon which the great debate arose ; and therefore the resolution of the house is as full a precedent in this case as can be desired . i do not deny , that the rolls of parlament of that year seem to represent the peers , as birchington calls them , not as appointed to examine the particular case of stratford ; but to draw up in form the desire of the peers as to a trial by their peers , in parlament : the which is extant in the record ed. iii. n. . however , this argument doth not lose its force as to the peerage of the bishops ; but it is rather confirmed by it . for there they pray the king , by the assent of the prelats , counts and barons , that the peers of the realm may not be judged but in parlament , & per lour piers , and by their peers : and after it follows , that they may not lose their temporalties , lands , goods and chattels , &c. who were capable of losing their temporalties , but the prelats ? therefore this law must respect them as well as others . as farther appears not onely by the occasion , but by the consequent of it . for it follows , n. . that the archbishop of canterbury was admitted into the king's presence , and to answer for himself in parlamentdevant les piers , before his peers : which the king granted . so that the rolls of parlament put this matter beyond contradiction . in r. ii. thomas arundel , archbishop of canterbury , was impeached of high treason before the king and lords in parlament . the king ' s answer was , that forasmuch as this impeachment did concern so high a person , & pier de son roialm , ( it is in the record , but left out in the abridgment ) and a peer of the realm , the king would be advised . but soon after he was condemned for treason by the house , theproxie of the bishops , sir tho. percy , giving his vote . the force of this doth not lie barely in his being impeached before the house of peers in time of parlament ; but that the king called him in his answer a peer of the realm . and because two laws were already passed , the one , that peers were to try none but peers , ed. iii. n. . the other , that peers were to be tried onely by their peers , ed. iii. n. . the former of these , the authour of the iurisdiction of the house of peers asserted ( one well known to the authour of the letter ) would have onely looked on as a temporary order of the house . but our greatest lawyers are of another opinion . and an eminent lawyer still living urged this as an act of parlament , because it is said , that the king in full parlament assented to it : and he added , that the words are both affirmative and negative ; they shall not be bound , or charged to try any other then peers , but be thereof discharged ; and that therein they declare it to be against law for them to exercise iurisdiction on those who were not their peers . from whence it follows , that since stratford and arundel , archbishops of canterbury , were allowed to be tried by the house of peers , ( without impeachment from the commons ) they were looked on as peers by the whole house . the latter act , the same authour cannot deny to be a binding law ; but he hath a strange fetch to avoid the force of it ; viz. that this law was made with respect to the case of roger mortimer ed. iii. and not to the case of stratford then in agitation : which is without all colour of reason . for the case then was of a different nature , viz. about the peers trying those who were not peers , as sir simon bereford , &c : but here the case was , whether peers should be tried by any others then their peers ; and the king granted they should not . now upon this stratford was allowed to be tried by his peers in parlament ; and therefore this trial upon these acts is an invincible argument of the peerage of the bishops . in h. vi. when william de la pole , duke of suffolk , waved being tried by his peers , and submitted to the king's mercy ; the record saith , ( as the authour of the letter himself confesseth ) that viscount beaumont , on the behalf of the lordsspiritualand temporal , and by their advice , assent and desire , moved the king , that a protestation might be enter'd in the parlament-roll , that this should not be , nor turn in prejudice nor derogation of them , their heirs , ne of their successours in time coming ; but that they may have and enjoy their liberties and freedoms as largely as ever their ancestours and predecessours had or enjoy'd them before this time . which sir r. cotton more briefly expresseth , n. . that neither they nor their heirs should by this example be barred of their peerage . the authour of the letter more fully puts in successours , as well as heirs ; for this protestation was made in behalf of the lords spiritual as well as temporal . but very unfairly leaves out the most material words in the record , viz. [ after freedoms , ] in case of their peerage . and i appeal to the authour himself , whether these words be not in the record ; and with what ingenuity they are left out , i cannot understand . i do not charge the authour of the letter himself with this ; but whosoever searched the records for him , hath dealt very unfaithfully with him . and i suppose , if he had seen this passage himself , he would never have so peremptorily denied the peerage of the bishops ; nor asserted with so much assurance , that they are onely to be tried by commoners , and that it was always so , and never otherwise . ( . ) suppose the bishops have been tried by commoners out of parlament , this doth not take away their right of peerage in parlament . for all our dispute is concerning the right of their peerage in parlament ; and if that be allowed , we are not to dispute concerning the difference that in some respects may arise by custom , or practice of common law , between peers by descent , and peers by tenure in right of their baronies . and therefore the authour of the peerage of the lords spiritual might have spared all the needless pains he takes about this : for we do not contend that they have an inheritable peerage , but that they are peers in parlament , having a right to sit and judge there by virtue of their baronies . but from hence he undertakes to prove , that by magna charta they cannot be iudges of such who are ennobled in bloud . this comes home to our present business , and therefore must be considered . . he saith , that he who hath onely a praedial or feudal , and not personal , peerage , can have no iurisdiction but such as is suitable to the nature of his peerage ; and therefore can onely extend to matters of property and possession , and not to matters of bloud . but that this is a very trifling and ill-consider'd argument appears by this , that he grants a lord keeper , lord privy seal , lord treasurer , to be peers by their offices ; for , as he speaks , after regradation their peerage is ended : and he will not deny that these may sit as iudges in capital cases , although they be peers onely by their offices . those that are peers in parlament have right to judge in all cases that belong to the iudicature of parlament . . he saith , that the reason of magna charta is , that the iudges and prisoner may be under the same circumstances . but this kind of arguing as well excludes a lord keeper , who is no baron , as a bishop ; and supposes that mens capacity for judgment depends upon perfect equality of circumstances : whereas knowledge and integrity go farther towards constituting one that is a peer but in one respect , a just judge , then bare inheritance of honour can do . but to give a full answer to this argument , on which that authour lays so much weight , and challenges any person , to give a rational account wherein the advantage of a man's being tried by his peers doth consist ; i shall ( ) shew that this was not the reason of trial by peers ; ( ) give a brief account of the true and original reason of it . [ . ] that this was not the reason . . not in the judgment of the peers themselves , as that authour hath himself sufficiently proved , when he takes so much pains to prove p. . that a writ of summons to parlament doth not ennoble the bloud ; and consequently , doth not put persons into equality of circumstances with those whose bloud is ennobled : and yet he grants , that those who sate in the house of peers by virtue of their summons did judge as peers ; as is manifest from his own precedents p. . from the edw. . from whence it follows , that this was not thought to be the reason by the peers themselves in parlament . . that this was not the reason in the judgment of our greatest lawyers ; because they tell us , that where this reason holds , yet it doth not make men judges . as for instance , those who are ennobled by bloud , if they be not lords of parlament , are not to be judges in the case of one ennobled by bloud . onely a lord of the parlament of england , saith coke , shall be tried by his peers being lords of parlament ; and neither noblemen of any other country , nor others that are called lords , and are no lords of parlament , are accounted pares peers within this statute . therefore the parity is not of bloud , but of privilege in parlament . . the practice it self shews that this was not the reason . for this reason would equally hold whether the trial be at the king's suit , or the suit of the party : but in the latter case , as in an appeal for murther , a man whose bloud is ennobled must be tried by those whose bloud is not ennobled ; even by an ordinary iury of men . and i desire our authour to consider what becomes of the inheritable quality of bloud in this case , when life and fortune lies at the mercy of substantial free-holders ? who , it is likely , do not set such a value upon nobility as noble-men themselves do : and yet our law , which surely is not against magna charta , allows an ordinary iury at the suit of the party to sit in judgment upon the greatest noble-men . therefore this reason can signifie nothing against the bishops , who are lords in parlament , as i have already proved . [ . ] i shall give a brief account of the true and original reason of this trial by peers ; without which , that authour it seems is resolved to conclude , that the iurisdiction of the bishops in capital cases is an abuse of magna charta , and a violation offer'd to the liberties of english subjects . as to the general reason of the trial by peers , it is easie to conceive it to have risen from the care that was taken , to prevent any unfair proceedings in what did concern the lives and fortunes of men . from hence tacitus observes of the old germans , that their princes , who were chosen in their great councils to doe justice in the several provinces , had some of the people joyned with them , both for advice and authority . these were assessours to the judges ; that mens lives and fortunes might not depend on the pleasure of one man : and they were chosen out of the chief of the people , none but those who were born free being capable of this honour . in the latter times of the german state , before the subduing it by charlemagn , some learned men say , their iudges were chosen out of the colleges of priests , especially among the saxons . after their being conquer'd by him , there were courts of judicature established among them , as in other parts of the german empire . . one ordinary and popular , viz. by the comites , or great officers sent by the emperour into the several districts ; and the scabini , who were assistants to the other , and were generally chosen by the people . the number of these at first was uncertain ; but in the capitulars they are required to be seven , who were always to assist the comes in passing judgments . but ludovicus pius , in his second capitular , a. d. . c. . enlarged their number to . and if they did not come along with him , they were to be chosen out of the most substantial free-holders of the county : for the words are , de melioribus illius comitatûs suppleat numerum duodenarium . this i take to be the true original of our juries . for our saxon laws were taken very much from the laws of the christian emperours of the caroline race , as i could at large prove , if it were not impertinent to our business ; and thence discover a great mistake of our lawyers , who make our ancient laws and customs peculiar to our selves . as in this very case of trial by peers , which was the common practice of these parts of the world. therefore otto frisingensis takes notice of it as an unusual thing in hungary ; nulla sententia à principe , sicut apud nos moris est , per pares suos exposcitur — sola sed principis voluntas apud omnes pro ratione habetur : that they were not judged by their peers , but by the will of their prince . which shews , that this way of trial was looked on as the practice of the empire , and as preventing the inconveniences of arbitrary government . and it was established in the laws of the lombards , and the constitutions of sicily . in the one it is said to be iudicium parium ; in the other , proborum virorum . in the saxon laws of king ethelred at wanting , c. . freemen are appointed to be sworn to doe iustice among their neighbours in every hundred . those in the laws of alfred are rather compurgators then iudges ; however some make him the authour of the trial by peers in england . but by whomsoever it was brought into request here , it was no other way of trial , then what was ordinary in other parts of europe ; and was a great instance of the moderation of the government of the northern kingdoms . . there was an extraordinary or royal court of iudicature : and that either by way of appeal , which was allowed from inferiour courts ; or in the causes of great men , which were reserved to this supreme court. in which either the king himself was present , or the comes palatii , who was lord high steward ; and all the great persons were assessours to him . in such a court brunichildis was condemned in france ; and tassilo duke of bavaria in the empire ; and ernestus , and other great men , a. d. ; and erchingerus and bartoldus under conradus , the last of the french race . and among the causes expresly reserved for this supreme court , were those which concerned the prelats as well as the nobles . vt episcopi , abbates , comites , & potentiores quique , si causam inter se habuerint , ac se pacificare noluerint , ad nostram jubeantur venire praesentiam : neque illorum contentio aliubi judicetur . but in this court they challenged that as their privilege to be tried by their peers ; who were called pares curiae . so the emperour sigismund , in his protestation before the states of the empire ; cùm secundùm juris communis dispositionem , nec non usum , morem , stylum & consuetudinem sacri romani imperii , feudalis contentio per dominum feudi , ac pares curiae terminanda sit , &c. and again , nisi parium nostrae curiae arbitrio . so likewise in france , as tilius saith , haec judiciorum ratio , ut de causis feudalibus judicent feudales pares , in gallia est perantiqua . so in fulbertus one count sends word to another , that their cause should not be determin'd , nisi in conventu parium suorum . and many other examples might be produced : but these are sufficient to make us understand the true original of this right of peerage ; which was from the feodal laws ; and all those who held of the same lord , and by the same tenure , were said to be pares peers . and therefore since the bishops in england were barons by tenure ever since william i. by consequence they were peers to other barons ; and had the same original right of trial by other barons as their peers , holding by the same tenure , and sitting in the same court. and thus i hope i have given ( what that authour so impatiently desired , viz. ) a rational account of the trial by peers ; and have thereby shewed , that this is so far from being any disadvantage to the bishops cause , that it adds very much to the iustice of it . and that this is so far from being a violation of magna charta , that it is within the intention and meaning of it , i thus prove . in the . ch . of magna charta we read , comites & barones non amercientur nisi per pares suos : but by the common law the amerciament of a bishop is the same with that of a lay-baron ; and therefore in the sense of the law , they are looked on as peers . and all the parlamentary barons , whether bishops or abbots , were amerced as barons . thence edw. . a writ was directed to the justices of the common pleas , that they should not amerce the abbot of crowland tanquam baro , because he did not hold per baroniam aut partem baroniae . and it is confessed by the most learned lawyers , that the lords spiritual do enjoy the same legal privileges , in other respects , which the temporal barons do ; as in real actions to have a knight returned in their iury ; as to a day of grace ; hunting in the king's forests ; scandalum magnatum , &c. now since the law of england allows onely a double parity , viz. as to lords of parlament , and commons , whether knights , esquires , gentlemen , or yeomen , without any consideration of the great inequality of circumstances among them ; ( yeomen having as little sense of gentility , as commons can have of the privileges of nobles ; ) it is apparent that this trial by peers was not founded upon equality of circumstances ; and that in all reason , those who do enjoy the legal privileges of peers , are to be looked on as such by magna charta . but the great objection is , that the lawyers are of another opinion , as to this trial by peers ; and not onely the common sort , who take all upon trust which they find in the modern law-books , but those who have searched most into antiquity , such as mr. selden and sir edw. coke . to this therefore i answer . . the authour of the peerage , &c. proves the bishops are not peers , because not to be tried by peers . this consequence mr. selden utterly denies ; for he saith , it is true and plain that the bishops have been peers . for which he quotes the bishop of winchester's case , who was question'd in the king's bench for leaving the parlament at salisbury in the beginning of ed. iii. and he pleaded to the declaration , quod ipse est unus e paribus regni , that he was one of the peers of the realm : which , he saith , was allowed in court. and from other book-cases and parlament-rolls he there evidently proves , that the bishops were peers : which he not onely asserts in that confused rhapsodie , which went abroad under his name ; but in his elaborate work of the last edition of his titles of honour , in which he corrected and left out the false or doubtfull passages of his first edition . and among the rest , that passage wherein this authour triumphs , a bishop shall not be tried by peers in capital crimes . the same thing i confess is said in the privileges of the baronage ; which he there calls a point of common law as it is distinguished from acts of parlament ; i. e. the custom and practice hath been so . and the onely evasion he hath for magna charta is this ; that it is now to be interpreted according to the current practice , and not by the literal interpretation of the words . which is an admirable answer , if one well considers it , and justifies all violations of magna charta , if once they obtain and grow into custom . for then , no matter for the express words of magna charta , if the contrary practice hath been received and allowed in legal proceedings . this is to doe by magna charta , as the papists doe by the scriptures , viz. make it a meer nose of wax , and say it is to be interpreted according to the practice of the church . . some things are affirmed about this matter with as great assurance as this is , which have not been the constant practice . coke is positive , that bishops are not to be tried by their peers ; but so he is in the same page , that a nobleman cannot wave his trial by his peers , and put himself upon the trial of the countrey : whereas it is said in the record ed. iii. that thomas lord berkely , ponit se super patriam , put himself upon his countrey , and was tried by a jury of knights . and h. vi. the duke of suffolk declined the trial of his peers , and submitted to the king's mercy . by which it appears , that this was a privilege which was not to be denied them , if they challenged it ; but , at least before ed. iii. they might wave it if they pleased ; and after that too , if they were tried out of parlament . for this trial by peers was intended for a security against arbitrary power in taking away mens lives ; and therefore it was allowed at the king's suit , but not at the suit of the party . but if bishops were tried out of parlament , and did voluntarily decline the challenge of this privilege , this is no argument at all against their right of peerage : and so i find some say it was in the case of fisher , bishop of rochester , in h. viii ' s time ; which is the great precedent in the law-books . . the method of proceeding as to the trial of bishops by common iuries , while the pope's power continued in england , is not so clear , that any forcible argument can be drawn from thence . because the bishops then looked on themselves as having no peers , out of parlament , in point of judgment , but bishops . as in the famous case of adam bishop of hereford , under edw. ii. who was rescued from the king's bench by his brethren the bishops , because they looked on his appearing there as a violation of the liberties of the church . i do not go about to defend these proceedings ; but i am sure the authour of the peerage , &c. very much misrepresents this business : for he makes it as if the bishop were legally convicted in court by a common iury , and that after conviction he was deliver'd to the archbishop , to the intent , as he supposes , that he should be degraded . whereas , in truth , the bishops carried him out of the court , without his giving any answer to the endictment ; and when he was absent , the king commanded the iury to bring in their verdict ; and without ever being heard to make any defence for himself , they found him guilty in all the articles laid to his charge . that authour very freely bestows the terms of impudence on the bishops of that time , and ignorance on those who go about to defend them : but i desire to know whether of these two makes a man thus misrepresent a matter of fact ? for it was so far from being true , that upon conviction he was deliver'd to the archbishop to be degraded ; that he never appeared in court after , but continued under the archbishop's care , till , after a while , he fully reconciled him to the king ; notwithstanding the jury found him guilty of treason . i desire to be informed , whether we are to understand magna charta by such a trial as this ? whether he were judged by his peers , i know not ; but i am sure he was not by the law of the land ; which i think is as good a part of magna charta as the other . and this , our historians tell us , is the first instance of any trial of this kind , of any bishop in england : which hath too much of force and violence in it , to be a good interpreter of magna charta . the second precedent is verbatim out of mr. selden concerning iohn de isle , and the bishop of ely his brother ; which concerns such matters , wherein himself confesses the privilegium clericale was allowed ; and the record saith , the archbishop entering his plea , that he was to be deliver'd to him as a member of his church , he was accordingly deliver'd , after the jury had given in their verdict . which shews , indeed , the good will that was then used , to take away even the allowed privileges of the clergy by common juries . and this is another stout interpreter of magna charta ; when bracton , briton , fleta , stat. west . . articuli cleri c. . are confessed , even by sir edw. coke , to be so clear in the clergie's behalf in these matters . the third precedent , which is likewise out of the same authour , is of thomas merks , bishop of carlisle ; who , for his fidelity to r. ii. and the true heirs of the crown , against the usurpation of h. iv. was found guilty of treason by a common iury. but mr. selden is so ingenuous as to take notice , that the writ directed to the justices had in it a non obstante to a statute lately made at westminster ; licèt in stat. apud westm. nuper edito inter caetera continetur , quòd nullus archiep. nec episcopus coram iusticiariis nostris occasione alicujus criminis impetatur , absque speciali praecepto nostro , quousque , &c. which was read in court : but the judges urging , that the liberties of the church did not extend to high treason , then it is said , he did ponere se super patriam ; just as thomas lord berkely did ed. iii. this is the onely precedent that proves that a bishop , before the time of h. viii . did put himself upon a common iury : and yet we find as good a precedent of this sort , concerning an allowed peer of the realm . and whether this single precedent be sufficient to interpret magna charta , against the plain sense of the words , and to make a constant practice , i leave any rational man to judge . but if this were yielded in cases of high treason , wherein the privilege of clergy holds not ; ( especially since the statutes ed. iii. c. . and h. iv. c. , . ) mr. selden tells them , that there is no consequence from hence , because they are not to be tried by peers , therefore they are not peers : since the common law may limit this privilege of peers in one particular case , which may hold in all others . as it is no diminution to the peerage of the temporal lords , to be tried by a common iury at the suit of the party . i conclude the answer to this argument , as mr. camden doth his discourse about this subject ; who having proved that the bishops do enjoy all other privileges of peers , except this of being tried by them , ( which he seems to attribute to a kind of revenge upon them , for pleading such exemptions by the canon-law ) after all , he leaves it to the lawyers to determine , whether this be juris explorati . the meaning of which i am sure is not , as the authour of the letter expresseth it , that it was always so , and never otherwise . but the great difficulty to some is , that a praedial or feudal barony doth not ennoble the bloud ; and therefore can give no right of peerage . whereas it is well known , that all the baronies of england were such from the conquerour's time , till after the barons wars , when , for reason of state , it was thought necessary to make the nobility more dependant on the crown . and all that were barons were pares , i. e. peers . so du fresn quotes an old poem of the common laws of england , barons nous appellons les piers del realm . in france , from whence our baronies first came , ecclesiastical persons with praedial baronies are thought as capable of peerage as any . for , there at first all the barones regni ( who both in france and england were the same with the barones regis , however some of late have distinguished them ) sate in the great council , and all publick affairs passed through them ; and they were judged by their own order : and these were called pares regni , among whom the bishops were comprehended . at last lewis vii . a. d. . ( as most authours agree ) chose twelve out of the great number of the peers of france ; of which half the number were bishops who held feudal baronies of the king ; and the archbishop of rheims is the first of the whole number . and because these enjoy'd greater privileges then other peers , their number was increased by particular favour ; but the ancient right of peerage remained to all the barons of the realm . in scotland , when they appointed twelve peers for the king's council , they were bishops , earls , barons . so that in the neighbour nations feodal baronies were never thought inconsistent with peerage : and we have as little reason to think them so with us ; since to this day , the bishops do enjoy not onely the great right of peerage , of sitting and voting in the house of peers , but have some personal privileges of peers allowed them by the common law , as is already shewed . ii. the last thing to be considered is , the capacity in which they sit in the house , whether as a third estate or not ? the authour of the letter not onely denies it , but opposes it with great vehehemency , and offers many authorities and reasons against it . all which must be weighed with the same calmness and impartiality , which hath been hitherto used in this discourse . and there are three things to be distinctly handled for the clearing of this matter : . his foundation ; . his authorities ; . his reasons . ( . ) his foundation whereupon he builds ; which is , that the bishops sit in the house onely in the capacity of temporal barons ; william the conquerour having brought the temporalties of bishops under the condition of baronies . that they do sit there in the right of their baronies , was yielded at first ; but whether they sit there onely in that capacity , is the thing in question . and here i crave leave to make use of this authour's distinction , and to apply it to this purpose ; viz. of the bishops sitting in the house in a iudicial way , and in the legislative way . when they sit in the iudicial way , as members of the supreme court of iudicature , i grant that they sit onely in the capacity of temporal barons ; as appears by the constitution of clarendon , where the king requires their attendance in iudicature as his barons : but that in the legislative way they have a farther capacity , as representing a third estate in parlament , i prove by these arguments . [ . ] during the vacancy of bishopricks , writs were sent to the guardians of the spiritualties , to attend the parlament . which mr. selden , who cannot be suspected for partiality in this matter , saith , is obvious in the rolls of parlament ; and which he cannot deny to be an evidence of the bishops sitting in parlament as bishops , and as spiritual onely , as they did in the saxon times , in the wittena gemot . so likewise , the vicars-general had writs when the bishops were beyond sea. but neither of these could sit in parlament as temporal barons . but because so much depends on the proof of this , and no man hath yet undertaken it , i shall bring clear testimonies of the constant practice of it , from the records of the tower. edw. i. writs were directed custodi archiepiscopatûs eborum , sede vacante ; & electo menevensi , vel ejus vices gerenti , ipso agente in partibus transmarinis . ed. i. custodibus episcop . lincoln . sede vacante ; & capitulo eccles. b. p. eborum , custodibus spiritual . ejusdem dioces . sede vacante . ed. ii. vicario generali archiep. eborum , ipso archiepiescopo in remotis agente . . ed. ii. custodi archiepiscopatûs cantuar . sede vacante . ed. ii. to the same , & custodi episcop . london . sede vacante . ed. iii. custodi spiritualitatis archiep. cantuar. sede vacante : and twice the same ed. iii. ed. iii. rex dilecto sibi in christo priori eccles. christi cantuar. custodi spiritualit . archiep. cantuar. sede vacante . ed. iii. custodi spirit . episcop . norwic . sede vacante . ed. iii. custodi spirit . episcop . cicestr . sede vacante ; & h. episcopo lincoln . vel ejus vicario generali , ipso episcopo in remotis agente . ed. iii. a more general writ to the archbish. &c. vel vicariis vestris generalibus , vobis in partibus transmarinis agentibus . ed. iii. t. episcop . hereford . vel ejus vicario generali , ipso episcopo in remotis agente . ed. iii. custodi spiritualit . episcop . assaphensis , &c. the like we find e. ( . ) . . . . r. ( . ) . . . . . . . . h. ( . ) . h. ( . ) . . . . . . h. ( . ) . . . . . . . . . . edw. . in all these years , there are writs directed , either to the guardians of the spiritualties in the vacancies of the sees , or to the vicars-general or chancellours in their absence beyond the seas . which are sufficient to prove this to have been the constant practice of parlaments in those times . [ . ] some church-men were summon'd to parlament who could have no pretence to sit there as temporal barons . for h. iii. the deans of york , exceter , wells , salisbury and lincoln were summon'd with the like writ as the rest . and mr. selden observes , that in the times of edw. i. edw. ii. edw. iii. where the clause praemunientes is omitted in the writ to the bishops , there particular and several writs were sent to some deans and priors of cathedral churches , to appear in parlament . but to prove more fully the interest the clergy had then in parlaments , it is worth our observing , that in the ancient records there are several sorts of writs wherein the clergy were concerned . . in the common writs of summons to parlament sent to the archbishops and bishops , with the clause of praemunientes , which runs thus ; premunientes priorem & capitulum , or decan . & capit. ecclesie vestre , archidiaconos , totumque clerum vestre dioces . facientes , quod iidem prior & archidiaconi in propriis personis suis , ac dictum capitulum per unum , idemque cierus per duos procuratores idoneos , plenam & sufficientem potestatem ab ipsis capitulo & clero habentes , predictis die & loco intersint , ad consentiendum hiis que tunc ibidem de communi consilio ipsius regni nostri , divina favente clementia , contigerint ordinari . so mr. selden represents it from the ed. iii. membr . . and with him sir edw. coke agrees ; who saith , by this clause in the writ of summons to the bishops , they are required to summon these persons to appear personally at the parlalament : but he proves they had no voices there , because they are required onely ad consentiendum , &c. which is a very weak argument . for , ( . ) his own great authority , modus tenendi parlamentum , saith expresly , they were called ad tractand . & deliberand . and that their names were called over in the beginning of parlament ; and that they had a voice there , and did make up part of the commons of england . not that the procuratores cleri did sit together with them , after they had a speaker of their own ▪ of which i find no precedent : but they sate by themselves , having a prolocutor of their own : which is the very same name used in the rolls for the speaker of the house of commons . ( . ) these words do not exclude them from being part of the commune concilium regni , but onely shew , that their consent was required , according to the custom of that time . and ed. i. the clause is more full , ad tract and. ordinand . & faciend . the like ed. i. but in ed. i. the words are , ad faciend . & consentiend . ( . ) the same argument would exclude the commons from any voices : for in ed. i. the writ for chusing knights and burgesses ran after the same manner ; ita quod dicti milites plenam & sufficientem potestatem pro se & commun ' comit ' predict ' & dicti cives & burgenses pro se & communit civit ' & burg ' tunc ibidem habeant , ad faciend ' tunc quod de communi consilio ordinabitur in premissis . would any man be so unreasonable to infer from hence , that the house of commons have no votes ? the same form is used ed. i. — of the same . in ed. ii. it is , ad consentiendum , &c. ed. ii. it is , ad faciend . quod de communi consilio contigerit ordinari . ed. ii. ad faciendum & consentiend . and so it continued to the ed. iii. when first came in , ad tract and. consulend . faciend . but ed. i. it was onely , ad consulend . & consentiend . ed. iii. it was , ad faciendum & consentiendum his quae tunc de communi concilio regni contigerit ordinari : so edw. iii. which hath been the general form , ever since observed , and would exclude the house of commons from any votes in parlament , as well as the clergy . . there were other writs of summons to parlament wherein the clause praemunientes was left out ; and then particular writs were sent to such deans and dignified clergy-men as the king thought fit . so it was not onely h. iii. but there were two summons ed. i. and in one of them the clause praemunientes was inserted , in the other not . it was left out ed. i. and in one ed. i. and put in another , and left out again . and . of ed. i. inserted ed. ii. in one writ , and omitted in others ; and so in the following years : but afterwards generally inserted , except ed. ii. . . . in ed. iii. it was omitted , and so in . and some few years afterwards : but then it generally obtained , that the clause praemunientes was put into the writs of the bishops summons to the parlament . . there were writs of summons to great councils , which were no assemblies of the estates ; and then onely some great bishops and lords , or other great men were summon'd , without any writs to others , or any notice taken of them . in such a summons ed. ii. onely bishops are named ; ed. ii. onely ; onely ; ed. iii. onely . and the guardian of the spiritualties of the see of canterbury : and so ed. iii. and in another the same year , besides the archbishop of canterbury . ed. iii. summons were sent to the archbishop of york , and bishops more . ed. iii. the writ was directed to the archbishop of york , and such bishops , earls , and great men as were of the king's council : and two more were summon'd the same year . the form of the writ differs little from that to the parlament , onely the clause praemunientes is always left out , and onely some particular bishops and nobles are called , and no writs for elections of knights or burgesses . in the ed. iii. the writ is sent to the archbishop and bishops more ; but none to abbots , priors , sheriffs , &c. which shews that this was magnum concilium , as it is sometimes called , but no parlament . . there were writs to summon a convocation distinct from the writ of summons to the parlament with the clause praemunientes . this will appear by the first writ of summons to a convocation , which i have seen ; which bears date at lincoln . feb. ed. ii. but the parlament was summon'd . of october before , to meet at lincoln in quindenâ s. hilarii ; with the clause praemunientes in the writ to the bishops . in which summons to convocation it is expressed , that those bishops and others of the clergy , who were summon'd to parlament , did , as far as they were concerned , unanimously yield to a subsidy ; but so , that others of the clergy who were not summon'd to parlament should meet in convocation , and consent thereto . therefore the king sends his writ to the archbishop to summon all the prelats , whether religious or others , and others of the clergy of his province , to meet at london post . pasch. ad tractand . & consentiend . &c. here we have the plain difference between the writs to parlament , and to convocation . the writs to the parlament were sent to the archbishops and all the bishops , with the clause praemunientes , &c. summoning those of the clergy who were then thought necessary to the assembly of the three estates in parlament : but when a convocation was called , then the writs were onely directed to the two archbishops , who were to summon the rest of the clergy , and not onely those who held by baronies , but others of the dignified clergy , tam exemptos quàm non exemptos , with the proctors of the chapters and clergy of the diocese , ad tractand ' & consulend ' super premissis una vobiscum & aliis per nos tunc mittendis . so it is expressed in the writ for convocation ed. iii. ed. iii. ed. iii. r. ii. h. vi. ed. iv. onely these two last have this difference , ad tractand ' , consentiend ' , conclud ' super premissis , & aliis que sibi clarius exponentur tunc ibidem ex parte nostra . these things i have laid together , not barely to clear this intricate matter , ( as it hath been made ) of the interest the clergy then had in parlaments as well as convocations ; but chiefly to prove from hence , that all the interest they had in parlaments was not meerly on the account of the temporal baronies which the bishops and many of the abbots then had . which is the great , but common mistake of the authour of the letter . [ . ] after the bishopricks were made baronies , the distinction even in parlament is kept up between the several estates of the clergy and laiety . for although baronagium doth often take in all ; yet sometimes they are so remarkably distinguished , that we may see they were looked on as two distinct estates in parlament . so eadmerus , ( speaking of what passed in the parlament h. i ) saith , it was done utriusque ordinis concordi curâ & solicitudine , by the consent of both estates . so matt. paris , speaking of the summons to appear in the beginning of h. i. comprehends all under those estates , clerus angliae , & pop. universus : and again , respondente clero , & magnatibus cunctis . speaking of a parlament under h. ii. he saith , convocato clero regni , ac populo . in h. iii. describing a parlament , he calls those assembled nobiles angliae , tam viri ecclesiastici quàm seculares . and in the writs of summons the distinction hath been always preserved between the praelati and the magnates : for in those to the bishops it is , cum caeteris praelatis , magnatibus , &c. in those to the temporal lords , cum praelatis , magnatibus , &c. in those to the bishops they were commanded , in fide & dilectione quibus nobis tenemini : in those to the temporal lords , in fide & homagio ; or , since ed. iii. in fide & ligeancia . which shews that they were not summon'd meerly as temporal barons . [ . ] the authour of the letter confesseth the clergy to be one of the three estates of the kingdom ; but denies them to be one of the three estates in parlament . from whence i argue thus . either the clergy must be represented in parlament , or one of the estates of the kingdom is not at all represented there . and if one of the estates of the kingdom be not there represented , how can it be a perfect representative ? so that this distinction of the three estates of the kingdom , and the three estates in parlament , unavoidably overthrows the parlament's being a compleat representative . but in h. viii . n. . as mr. petyt observes , there is this passage in the parlament-rolls . it is considered and declared by the whole body of this realm , now represented by all the estates of the same assembled in this present parlament . therefore all the estates of the kingdom must be represented in parlament . and eliz. c. . the lords spiritual and temporal and the commons are said to represent in parlament the three estates of the realm . from whence it follows , that , according to the sense of the parlament , if the clergy be an estate of the kingdom , as he saith they are , they must be represented in parlament , or the whole body of the realm cannot be there represented . ( . ) we now come to consider the weight of authority in this matter . for which i shall premise two things . . that the whole parlament assembled are the best judges , which are the three estates in parlament ; and their authority is more to be valued , then that of any particular persons , whether lawyers , or others . . that no parlaments can give better testimony in this matter , then those which have assumed most to themselves . for if there be three estates in parlament , and the bishops be none , then the king must be one of the three ; as the authour of the letter insinuates , throughout this discourse : and the natural consequence from hence seems to be a co-ordination ; or that two joyning together may over-rule the third . therefore in all reason , if any parlaments would have made the king one of the three estates , it would have been either the parlament h. iv. which deposed one king , and set up another ; or that r. iii. which disinherited the children of ed. iv. and set up their uncle . i shall therefore first from the rolls of these two parlaments shew , which are the three estates in parlament ; and from them , evidently prove that the king is none , but the bishops are the third estate . i begin with the parlament h. iv. by the rolls it appears , ( . ) that r. ii. appointed two procurators to declare his resignation of the crown , coram omnibus statibus regni , before all the states of the kingdom . from whence it unavoidably follows , . that the king was none of them ; . that the estates of the kingdom and the estates in parlament are the same thing . ( . ) among the articles against r. ii. one is concerning the impeachment of tho. archbishop of canterbury coram rege & omnibus statibus regni , before the king and all the estates of the realm . the king then was none of the estates . ( . ) the commissioners for the sentence of deposition are said to be appointed per pares & proceres regni anglie spirituales & temporales , & ejusdem regni communitates , omnes status ejusdem regni representantes ; by the peers and lords spiritual and temporal , and the commons of the kingdom , representing all the states of the kingdom . where observe , . the bishops are called peers , as well as the temporal lords . . the estates of the parlament are to represent all the estates of the kingdom . . the three estates in parlament are the lords spiritual , the lords temporal , and the commons of the realm ; and fabian expresly calls them the three estates of this present parlament , representing the whole body of the realm . in the rolls of parlament r. iii. it is recorded , that before his coronation , certain articles were deliver'd unto him in the name of the three estates of the realm of england , that is to say , of the lords spiritual and temporal and of the commons by name , &c. now forasmuch as neither the said three estates , neither the said persons which in their name presented and deliver'd ( as it is afore said ) the said roll unto our said sovereign lord the king , were assembled in form of parlament , divers doubts have been moved , &c. now by the said three estates assembled in this present parlament , and by authority of the same , be ratified , and enrolled , &c. upon which mr. pryn himself makes this marginal note , the three estates must concurr to make a parlament ; no one or two of them being a full or real parlament , but all conjoyned . but lest i should seem to take advantage onely of these two parlaments , i shall now shew this to have been the constant sense of the parlaments ; as will appear by these following records . in h. vi. n. . all the estates of the realm are said to be assembled in parlament . h. vi. n. . the three estates assembled in this present parlament . h. vi. n. . the duke of gloucester desired an explanation of his power as protector : in the answer , drawn up by the lords appointed for that purpose , it is alledged that h. v. could not by his last will , nor otherwise , alter , change , or abroge , without the assent of the three estates nor commit or grant , to any person , governance or rule of this land , longer then he lived . ; nevertheless they adde , it was advised and appointed by the authority of the king , assenting the three estates of this realm . which shews how far the king was from being thought one of the three estates in parlament at that time . h. vi. n. . ralph lord cromwell put in a petition to the parlament , that he was discharged the office of king's chamberlain in a way contrary to the articles for the council sworn h. vi. coram tribus regni statibus , before the three estates of the realm , as they were assembled in parlament : which appears by the record h. vi. n. . h. vi. n. . the duke of bedford appeared in parlament , and declared the reasons of his coming coram domino rege & tribus regni statibus , before the king and the three estates of the realm ; as it is in the record , but not mention'd in the abridgment . n. . domino rege & tribus regni statibus in presenti parlamento existentibus , the king and the three estates of the realm being present in parlament . nothing can be plainer , then that the king is none ; and that the three estates of the kingdom are the three estates in parlament . h. vi. n. . lord cromwell treasurer exhibits a petition in parlament , wherein he saith , the estate and necessity of the king and of the realm have been notified to the three estates of the land assembled in parlament . in an appendix annexed to the rolls of parlament that year , the duke of bedford saith , in his petition to the king , how that in your last parlament yit liked your highness , by yadvis of three estates of his land , to will me , &c. h. vi. n. . presente domino rege , & tribus regni statibvs in presenti parlamento existentibus , &c. h. vi. n. . domino rege & tribus regni statibus in pleno parlamento comparentibus , &c. after these i shall insist upon the precedents cited by the authour of the letter himself ; viz. the ratification of the peace with france by the thrée estates h. v. and h. vii . which he alledges as an extraordinary thing , that the three estates joyned in these transactions : whereas in truth it was nothing but a ratification of the peace in parlament ; and consequently , those three estates of the kingdom , are the three estates of parlament . for the parlament was then sitting at both these ratifications ; and no other assembly of the thrée estates was ever known in england . walsingham saith , that h. v. called aparlament , which was sitting at that time : for the king kept s. george's feast at windsor that year , from thence he went to the parlament at london , which ended within a month ; and the ratification of the peace bears date may . judge then , whether these were not the three estates in parlament ? but to prove this more fully . it seems by h. vi. n. . that a statute was made in the time of h. v. that no peace should be made with france without the consent of the three estates of both realms ; which was then repealed . but whom they meant by the thrée estates here in the time of h. vi. appears by h. vi. n. . when the chancellour , in the presence of the king , gave thanks to the three estates , and prorogued the parlament : where it is plain , the three estates in parlament were meant , and that the king could be none of them . in h. vi. n. . . the chancellour again , in the presence of the king and of the three estates , having given thanks to all the estates , dissolved the parlament . but that which puts this matter out of doubt is , that in the parlament h. vi. the queen dowager in her petition mentions the ratification made in parlament h. v. and saith , it was not onely sworn by the king , but by the thrée estates of the kingdom of england : cest assavoir , les prelatz , nobles , & grands , & per les comuns de mesm le roialm dengleterre ; that is to say , by the prelats , nobles , and other grandees , and by the commons of the realm of england : as appears more fully , saith that petition , by the records and acts of the said parlament . and the king there declares in four several instruments , that the said articles of peace were approved and ratified by authority of parlament , in these words ; qui quidem pax , tractatus , conclusio & concordia , omnesque articuli contenti in eisdem , in parlamento dicti patris nostri apud westm. die maii a. r. . tento , auctoritate ejusdem parlamenti approbati , laudati , auctorizati & acceptati . nothing can be plainer from hence , then that the three estates of the kingdom were no other then the three estates in parlament . and the same appears by another petition of the same queen , h. vi. n. . for latter times i shall instance onely in the parlament eliz. c. . wherein the lords spiritual and temporal and commons declare , that they do represent in parlament the thrée estates of the realm . from whence it follows , . that the three estates of the kingdom must be represented in parlament . . that the lords spiritual and temporal and the commons do represent those three estates of the kingdom , and therefore are the three estates in parlament . . that the king can be none of the estates in parlament , because he doth not represent any of the estates of the kingdom . and it is a wonder to me , that any man , who considers the constitution of the government of europe , and how agreeable it was in all the kingdoms of it , as to the assemblies of the three estates , could ever take the king to be one of the three estates in parlament . for the question would seem ridiculous to persons of any other nation , if we should ask them whether the king was reckon'd among the tres ordines regni ? for by the three estates they all mean the three ranks of men , the clergy , nobility , and commonalty . but the authour of the letter could not deny that these were the three estates of the kingdom ; but he saith , the three estates of parlament are clean another thing : which i may reasonably suppose , is sufficiently disproved by the foregoing discourse . but he quotes several authorities for what he saith , which must now be examined , and will appear to be of no weight , if compared with the evidence already given on the other side . the first authority is of king iames , in his speech at the prorogation of the parlament . wherein he saith , the parlament consists of a head , and a body ; the king is the head , the body are the members of the parlament . this body is subdivided into two parts , the vpper , and the lower house . the vpper consists of the nobility and the bishops ; the lower of knights and burgesses . the force of the argument lies in king iames his making the bishops but a part of the vpper house : but that this doth not exclude their being a third fstate , i prove by a parallel instance . in h. iv. the bishop of london , being chancellour , compared the parlament to a body , as king iames did ; but he made the chùrch the right hand , the temporal lords the left hand , and the commonaltie the other members ; yet presently after , he calls these , the several estates which the king had called to parlament . but that the bishops sitting in the same house with the temporal lords doth not hinder their being a distinct estate , will appear , when we come to answer his reasons . and for king iames his sense as to this matter , we may fully understand it by this passage in his advice to his son. as the whole subjects of our countrey ( by the ancient and fundamental policy of our kingdom ) are divided into three estates , &c. these words are spoken of the kingdom of scotland ; but the ancient and fundamental policy of that is the same with england ; and he that believed the subjects made the three estates there , could never believe the king to be one of them here . the next authority is of king charles i. in his answer to the propositions iune . . wherein he tells the two houses , that neither one estate should transact what is proper for two , nor two what is proper for three . to which i answer , that the penner of that answer was so intent upon the main business , viz. that the two houses could doe nothing without the king , that he did not go about to dispute this matter with them , whether the king were one of the three estates or not ; but taking their supposition for granted , he shews that they could have no authority to act without the king's concurrence . but the unwary concessions in that answer were found of dangerous consequence afterwards , when the king's enemies framed the political catechism out of them ; which is lately reprinted , no doubt , for the good of the people . in h. iv. n. . he makes the house of commons to declare to the king and lords , that the three estates of the parlament are the king , the lords spiritual , and temporal . whereas the truth of that matter is this : a difference had happen'd in the house of lords , between the earl of rutland and lord fitz-walter ; whereupon the house of commons go up to the king and the lords , and having , it seems , an eloquent speaker , who ventured upon dangerous metaphors , he makes bold with the similitude of the trinity ; because that would help him to perswade them to vnity : but if he had left the king out , he might have been suspected to have set up an independent power in the three estates : therefore lest he should lose his similitude , ( which goes a great way with an eloquent man ) he strains another point , and draws the king into his trinity . and is such an expression to be mention'd in comparison with the express declaration but the year before , h. iv. of both houses concerning the three estates in parlament ? next to this similitude , that of stephen gardiner ought to be mention'd ; who compared faith , hope , and charity , concurring to iustification , to the concurrence of the three estates in parlament , i.e. the king and two houses , to the making of laws . but i wonder the authour of the letter , who expresseth so much dislike of his divinity , would take his iudgment in politicks . but this notion of making the king one of the three estates , how valuable soever it be to some men , is , it seems , onely to be met with in some grave ancient similitudes . but of what authority these are , against the constant sense of parlaments so fully declared , i leave any man of understanding to judge . for the judgment of eminent lawyers , he quotes but one in king iames his time , viz. finch in his book of law , l. . ch . . who doth indeed , in the words quoted by him , make the king , lords and commons to be the three estates . but i can hardly imagine how a learned lawyer could fall into such a gross mistake , unless the modus tenendi parlamentum should give the occasion to it ; which was accounted no blind ms. in those days , but a very great treasure , as appears by sir e. coke , who cites it on all occasions . and very few lawyers had the judgment in antiquity which mr. selden had , who first discovered the just age and value of that ms. this authour indeed , towards the conclusion of his treatise , makes the king the first of the estates : but then he makes six estates in parlament , or degrees , as he calls them ; and delivers this for good doctrine at the very end of his treatise , that if any one of all these be summon'd , and do not appear , yet , with him , it is notwithstanding a full parlament : nay , he expresly saith , the king may hold a parlament without a house of lords . but there are so many other such positions discover'd by others in that treatise , that i need to say no more of it . and as to this point of the king 's being one of the estates in parlament , sir ed. coke , who otherwise too much admired that treatise , declares against it , in the very beginning of his treatise of the parlament . this court , saith he , consisteth of the king's majesty , sitting there as in his royal politick capacity ; and of the three estates of the realm ; viz. of the lords spiritual , archbishops and bishops , the lords temporal , and the commons of the realm . and however the authour of the letter may slight mr. selden's judgment in this matter ; yet these two may be sufficient to weigh down the scales against any one lawyer 's authority to the contrary ; especially , since they were never suspected , i dare say , for any partiality towards the clergy . ( . ) but the authour of the letter thinks to carry this point by meer strength of reason . we must therefore diligently consider the force of his arguments . . if bishops were one of the estates in parlament , reason would they should vote by themselves separately from other lords , which would make another estate : but they do not onely not vote apart by themselves , the whole body of them together ; but that body is divided and separated within it self , one part from another . if both houses ever sate together , as some imagine , ( and as they do in a neighbour kingdom , ) this way of reasoning will make but one estate in parlament all that time . but to give a clear answer to this objection ; i distinguish two things in the bishops , their spiritual capacity , by which they represent ; and their civil capacity as barons , in which they vote , according to the rules of the house . for , the manner of giving their votes is a thing under the regulation of the house , and depends upon custom ; but their spiritual capacity as bishops , in which they represent , doth not . and the reason of their sitting together with other lords , is upon the account of their writs of summons ; which , as mr. selden confesseth , ever since the latter end of edw. iii. hath been , for the bishops cum ceteris prelatis , magnatibus & proceribus , colloquium habere & tractatum : and therefore they are bound to sit together in the same place with the temporal lords , or else they cannot advise and confer together . and i leave the authour of the letter to consider , whether his reason , or the king 's writ , ought to take place . . if the bishops were a third estate , they must have a negative voice to all that passeth there : but the bishops are intermingled with the temporal lords in making up the majority , as a part of it . since i have evidently proved the clergy to be one of the three estates in parlament , if he be sure that every estate ought to have a negative voice , then i am sure that this objection lies more upon him to answer , then upon the bishops . but to prevent any new disputes , i shall return this answer to it . since it is agreed on both sides , that the bishops do sit in the house as temporal barons , and in that respect do make up the majority of votes in the house of lords ; it could not but seem unreasonable , that they who voted as barons in the house should have a negative voice in another capacity : and by this means they lost their distinct negative voice , because by the king's writs they were to sit and vote with the temporal lords . just as it is in the diets of germany : since the distribution of that assembly of the estates of the empire into the several chambers , the prelates vote according to their ranks : the three electors in the electoral college ; the other bishops , that are princes of the empire , in the chamber of princes ; and those who are not princes , with the counts and barons . so that here the votes of the bishops are mingled with the rest , without a distinct negative voice ; and yet no one questions but the bishops do represent a distinct estate of the empire . . this is a disparagement to the house of lords , that another estate must be joyned with them to make up their negative . no more , then to the princes of the empire , to have the bishops joyned with them , when the imperial cities vote by themselves . but what disparagement is this , for those to make up the majority of the votes of the baronage , who sit there as barons by tenure , by a right as ancient as will. the conquerour , by the authour 's own confession ? . if the bishops make a third estate , then a parlament could not be held without them : but a parlament hath sate excluso clero , as that of ed. i ; and that it may do so in point of law , appears by the resolution of the iudges in keilway's reports , because the bishops sit in parlament by reason of their baronies . this is the great objection , to which i shall give a full answer . [ . ] it is dangerous arguing from extraordinary cases to the excluding any one of the estates of the kingdom from being represented in parlament : because no one can tell where this way of arguing will stop . if a parlament may be good without one estate , why not without another ? and we have seen an house of lords excluded as unnecessary , upon such kind of arguments ; because they sit in their own persons , and represent none but themselves . if we once depart from the ancient and legal constitution of parlaments , there will be no end of alterations . every new modeller of government hath something to offer that looks like reason , at least to those whose interest it is to carry it on . and if no precedents can be found , then they appeal to a certain invisible thing called the fundamental contract of the nation : which being a thing no where to be found , may signify what any one pleaseth . suppose one extraordinary case happens through the disorder of times , that the clergy have been left out in a parlament ; what doth this signify towards altering the legal constitution and constant course of parlaments , which from the beginning of parlaments in this nation , have had the estate of the clergy represented in them ? as sufficiently appears by mr. petyt's learned preface to his late discourse of the ancient right of the commons . the first after king ethelbert's conversion was , commune concilium tam cleri quàm populi . that under ina was , omnium episcoporum , & principum , procerum comitum , & omnium sapientum seniorum & populorum totius regni . that under edmund the elder was , concilium magnum episcoporum , abbatum , fidelium procerum & populorum . i might adde many more : as that at becanceld under king withred a. d. . episcopis , &c. ducibus & satrapis in unum glomeratis . at clovesho under kenulphus of mercia ; at calecyth , at london , at kingston . nay , not one can be found by me in the saxon times , wherein the bishops are not expresly mention'd . so that if there be such a thing to be found as the fundamental contract of the nation about the constitution of parlaments , i do not question but they have their share in it . insomuch that sir h. spelman makes it his description of the wittena-gemot , that in it , as mr. petyt observes , convenêre regni principes , tam episcopi quàm magistratus , liberique homines ; i.e. it was an assembly of the three estates . so that before there were any such things as baronies , they were an essential part of the english parlament . and must all this clear and undoubted evidence from the first mention of parlaments be rejected , because once upon a time , a certain king called a certain parlament , wherein , upon some distast between the king and the clergy , the other estates continued sitting without them ? [ . ] this single instance about the parlament under ed. i. is much misunderstood , as will appear by these considerations . . that the clergy excluded themselves , and were not shut out by the act of the king and the other estates . for upon the bull of pope boniface viii . forbidding the clergy giving any more subsidies , ( which was procured by archbishop winchelsee , as our historians relate ) a parlament being called by ed. i. at saint edmondsbury on purpose for subsidies , the clergy refuse , upon the pope's prohibition , till they had consulted the court of rome ; and go away every one to their own homes : notwithstanding which , the king proceeds with the other two estates , and gets subsidies from the laiety . so that the exclusion of the clergy came from their own voluntary act ; when the king desired no such thing , nor the other two estates , but were all extremely provoked at this withdrawing of the clergy . that this parlament was called purposely for the subsidy , appears by the writ still upon record ; wherein the archbishop is summon'd to appear , ad ordinandum de quantitate & modo subsidii memorati . . whereas it is insinuated , that great matters were done , and good laws passed , when the clergy were excluded ; i find no such thing . it is true , the confirmation of magna charta by ed. i. ( which was a great thing indeed ) is said , in the statute-books , to be done the same year , viz. ed. i. but that it could not be done in that parlament , i thus prove . that parlament was called crast . animarum ; the king appoints another at london crast . hilarii : where the difference still continuing , he appoints a new parlament on the day of s. peter ad vincula , or lammas-day , wherein he was reconciled to the archbishop and clergy . then fealty is sworn to his son , before his going into flanders ; and the king excused himself as to the great taxes and subsidies , on the account of his wars . while he was about winchelsea , a remonstrance is sent to him of the grievances of the nation , in the name of the archbishops , bishops , earls , barons , and the whole commons of england , wherein they complain of illegal taxes , and the breach of magna charta . the king gives a dilatory answer , and passes over into flanders . in his absence the people refuse to pay the taxes , and the lords combine together , and all things tend to an open rebellion . his son ed. ii. calls a parlament at london , and promises a confirmation of the charter , and that no taxes should hereafter be raised , either on clergy or laiety , without their consent . which being sent over , edw. i. confirmed it with his own seal : which was all done within the compass of this year . but he again ratified it in the parlament ed. i. so that nothing was done in that parlament at s. edmondsbury , but granting a th of the laiety to the king. and when the great laws were passed , the king and clergy were reconciled , and they sate in parlament . and the archbishop of canterbury fell into the king's displeasure afterwards , for being so active a promoter of them . the summe then of this mighty argument is , that the lords and commons once granted their own subsidies , without the concurrence of the clergy ; therefore the clergy are no essential part of the parlament . . the reason assigned in keilway's reports , why the king may hold a parlament without the bishops , is very insufficient : viz. because they have no place in parlament by reason of their spiritualty , but by reason of their temporal possessions . the insufficiency of which reason will appear by two things . . that it is not true : as appears by this , that the clergy are one of the estates of the kingdom ; and all the estates of the kingdom must be represented in parlament . . were it true , it is no good reason . for why may they be excluded because they sit on the account of their baronies ? where lies the force of this reason ? is it because there will be number enough without them ? that was the rump's argument against the secluded members . and i hope the authour of the letter will not justify their cause . or is it because they hold their baronies by tenure ? so did all the ancient barons of england : and why may the king hold his parlament with the other barons , without the bishops ; and not as well with the bishops , without the other barons ? which i do not see how it can be answer'd upon those grounds . suppose the question had been thus put , since all the ancient lords of parlament were barons by tenure , and parlaments were held for many ages without any barons by patent or by writ , why may not the king hold his parlament after the ancient way , onely with barons by tenure ? i do not see , but as good a reason may be given for this , as that in keilway's reports . all that i plead for is , that our good ancient and legal constitution of parlament may not be changed for the sake of any single precedents , and rare cases , and obscure reports built upon weak and insufficient reasons . for , as the authour of the letter very well saith , consuetudo parlamenti est lex parlamenti , the constant practice of parlaments ( and not one single instance ) is the law of parlaments . and suppose that precedent of ed. i. as full as could be wished in this case ; yet i return the answer of the authour of the letter in a like case , this is but one single precedent , ( of a parlament without bishops , ) against multitudes wherein they were present : it was once so , and never but once . and can that be thought sufficient to alter and change the constant course and practice of parlaments , which hath been otherwise ? nothing now remains , but a severe reflexion on the popish bishops for opposing the statute of provisors , and the several good acts for the reformation . but what this makes against the votes of protestant bishops is hard to understand . if he thinks those could not make a good third estate in parlament , who took oaths to the pope contrary to their allegeance , and the interest of the nation , so do we . if he have a great zeal for the reformation , so have all true members of the church of england , who , we doubt not , will heartily maintain the cause of our church against the vsurpations of rome , though the heat of others should abate . for did not our protestant bishops seal the reformation with their bloud , and defend it by their admirable writings ? what champions hath the protestant religion ever had to be compared in all respects with our cranmer , ●idley , iewel , bilson , morton , hall , davenant , and many other bishops of the church of england ? and notwithstanding the hard fortune archbishop laud had in other respects , not to be well understood in the age he lived in ; yet his enemies cannot deny his book to be written with as much strength and judgment against the church of rome , as any other whatsoever . i shall conclude with saying , that the clergy of the church of england have done incomparably more service against popery , from the reformatition to this day , then all the other parties among us put together : and that the papists at this time wish for nothing more , then to see men , under a pretence of zeal against popery , to destroy our church ; and while they cry up magna charta , to invade the legal rights thereof , and thereby break the first chapter of it ; and from disputing the bishops presence in cases capital , to proceed to others ; and so by degrees to alter the ancient constitution of our parlaments , which will unavoidably bring anarchy and confusion upon us : from which , as well as popery , good lord , deliver us . the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e letter p. . lett. p. . lett. p. . . lett. p. . p. . lett. p. , . lett. p. . lett. p. . hincmar . epist . de ordine lalatii . concil . franc. c. . & . marculph . form. l. . c. . not. in marc. p. . concil . tolet . . c. . . c. . . c. . . in praef. . c. . . c. . . c. . cont l. tolet . . c. . rer. aleman . to. . cod. leg. antiq. b. . arumae . de comitiis ● . . c. . ● . . goldast . bohem . l. . c. . bonfin . dec . . l. . decret . ladiss . p. . starovolse . ●olon . p. ● . herburt . stat. regni pol. p. . adam . brem . de situ dan. n. . loccen . antiq . s●eco . goth. c. . ius aulicum n●rveg . c. . c. . lett. p. , . stat. merton c. . h. . dissert . ad flet. c. . § . soz. hist. l. . c. . capitul . carol . & ludov . l. . c. . ed. lindenb . c. . ed. baluz . cod. just. de epise . audient . l. . tit . . c. . cod. theodos . l. . tit . . c. . greg. nyss . vit . greg. basil. in ep . socr. l. . c. . ambros. de offic. l. . c. . aug. ep . . in ps. . conc . . jac. goth. in cod ▪ theod. ad extrav . de episc. judicio . concil . sardic . c. . balsam . in can. . concil . chalced. auth. collat . . tit . . novell . . c. . justin. cod. l. . tit . . c. . cod. theod. l. . tit . . n. . lindwood l. . de testam . lett. p. . notes for div a -e lett. p. . lett. p. . lett. p. , . lett. p. . lett. p. . matt. paris ad a. d. . pet. bles. de institut . episc . p. . malmsbur . hist. novell . p. . b. rad. de diceto imag. histor . p. . . gul. neuburg . l. . c. . bar. ad a. d. . n. . fitz-stephen vit . th. beck . m s. spelm. concil . to. . p. , , . p. . pag. . baronius ad ann. . pet. bles. de instit. episc. p. . lett. p. . pag. . vol. epistol . becket in bibl. cotton . ms. l. . ep . . ep. . gervas . chronic . p. . fitz-stephen vit. th. becket . de concilio apud clarendon . lett. p. . pag. . pag. . titles of honour , p. . c. . n. . pag. . pag. . lett. p. . ● . ▪ &c. rot. parl. r. . n. . lett. p. , . const. othob . c. nè clerici . spelman . conc. to. . p. . p. . lyndwood ad tit . de loc. & cond . c. vendentes . si quis clericus . decretal . l. . tit . . c. . rot. parlam . r. . p. . n. . knighton p. . a discourse of the peerage and jurisdiction of the lords spiritual , p. . discourse of the peerage , &c. p. . lett. p. . p. . lett. p. ● . pag. . pag. . p . p. . pag. . sum. l. . de constit. n . pag. . man●al . c. . covarruv . ad clem. fi surios . p. . § . n. . camden . annal. a. d. . vid. lyndwood in constit . othob . c. nè clerici . v. in eisdem . notes for div a -e lett. p. . pag. . lett. p. . lett. p. . lett. p. . claus. ed. . n. , . & dors . . . plea for the lords , p. . discourse of the bishops peerage , pag. . rot. . r. . pag. . pag. . pag. . kot . , . r. . r. . . pag. . lett. p. . pag. , . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . jurisdiction of the house of peers asserted , p. . lett. pag. . p. . pag. . pag. . lett. p. . pag. . knighton de event . p. . lett. pag. . cestrens . l. . c. . knighton , p. . pag. . pag. . . pag. ▪ rights of the bishops , p. , , &c. lett. p. . lett. p. . pag. . lett. p. . selden's bar. pag. . rights of the bishops , pag. . lett. p. . pag. . pag. . lett. p. . lett. p. . pag. . to pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . . pag. . rot. parl. ed. . n. . pag. . pag. . walsingh ▪ hist. angl. pag. . notes for div a -e lett. pag. . antiq. brit. pag. . pag. . coke . inst. c. . p. . sir j. m. arg. concerning the iurisdiction of the peers , in skinners case . pag. . pag. . pag. , , &c. pag. . pag. . instit. p. . coke instit . p. . selden's titles of honour , to . pag. . de morib . germ. c. . h. mei●om . de i●mensulâ . ● . . otto frising . de gestis fred. 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pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. , &c. concil . brit. p. . . . . . . . . . claus. ed. . m. . dorso . walsingh . pag. . thorn. ad a. . knighton , p. . matt. west . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . a discourse concerning the power of excommunication in a christian church, by way of appendix to the irenicum by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a discourse concerning the power of excommunication in a christian church, by way of appendix to the irenicum by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . stillingfleet, edward, - . irenicum. [ ], p. printed for henry mortlock ..., london : . reproduction of original in the cambridge university library. includes bibliographical references. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -- government. excommunication. church polity. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - melanie sanders sampled and proofread - melanie sanders text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a discourse concerning the power of excommunication in a christian church ▪ by way of appendix to the irenicum . by edward stillingfleet , rector of sutton in bedfordshire . london , printed for henry mortlock , at the sign of the phoenix in st. pauls church-yard , neer the little north-door . . a discourse concerning the power of excommunication in a christian church . it is a matter of daily observation and experience in the world , how hard it is to keep the eyes of the understanding clear in its judgement of things , when it is too far engaged in the dust of controversie . it being so very difficult to well manage an impetuous pursuit after any opinion , nothing being more common then to see men outrun their mark , and through the force of their speed to bee carryed as farr beyond it , as others in their opinion fall short of it . there is , certainly , a kind of ebriety of the mind , as well as of the body , which makes it so unstable and pendulous , that it oft times reeles from one extream unto the quite contrary . this , as it is obvious in most eager controvertists of all ages , so especially in such , who have discovered the falsity of an opinion they were once confident of , which they think they can never after run farr enough from : so that while they start at an apparition they so much dread , they run into those untroden paths , wherein they lose both themselves and the truth they sought for . thus wee find it to be in the present controversie , for many out of their just zeal against the extravagancies of those who scrued up church power to so high a peg , that it was thought to make perpetuall dis●ord with the common-wealth , could never think themselves free from so great an inconvenience , till they had melted down all spiritual power into the civil state , and dissolved the church into the common-wealth . but that the world may see i have not been more forward to assert the just power of the magistrate in ecclesiasticalls , as well as civills , then to defend the fundamental rights of the church , i have taken this opportunity , more fully to explain and vindicate that part of the churches power , which lies in reference to offenders ? it being the main thing struck at by those who are the followers of that noted physitian , who handled the church so ill , as to deprive her of her expulsive faculty of noxious humours , and so left her under a miserere mei . i shall therefore endeavour to give the church her due , as well as caesar his , by making good this following principle or hypothesis , upon which the whole hinge of this controversie turnes , viz. that the power of inflicting censures upon offenders in a christian church , is a fundamentall right , resulting from the constitution of the church , as a society by jesus christ , and that the seat of this power is in those officers of the church , who have derived their power originally from the founder of this society , and act by vertue of the laws of it . for the cleare stating of this controversie , it will bee necessary to explain , what that power is , which i attribute to the church , and in what notion the church is to be considered as it exerciseth this power . first , concerning the proper notion of power , by it i cannot see any thing else to bee understood , then a right of governing , or ordering things which belong to a society . and so power implies only a moral faculty in the person enjoying it , to take care ne quid civitas detrimenti capiat , whereby it is evident that every well constituted society must suppose a power within its self of ordering things belonging to its welfare , or else it were impossible , either the being or the rights and priviledges of a society could bee long preserved . power then in its general and abstracted notion , doth not necessarily import either meer authority , or proper coaction , for these to any impartial judgement , will appear to bee rather the severall modes whereby power is exercised , then any proper ingredients of the specifick nature of it ; which in generall , imports no more then a right to govern a constituted society , but how that right shall bee exercised , must bee resolved not from the notion of power , but from the nature and constitution of that particular society in which it is lodged and inherent . it appears then from hence to bee a great mistake and abuse of well natured readers , when all power is necessarily restrained , either to that which is properly coercive , or to that which is meerly arbitrary and onely from consent . the originall of which mistake is , the stating the notion of power from the use of the word , either in ancient roman authors , or else in the civil laws , both which are freely acknowledged to bee strangers to the exercise of any other power , then that which is meerly authoritative and perswasive , or that which is coactive and penal . the ground of which is , because they were ignorant of any other way of conveyance of power , besides external force and arbitrary consent , the one in those called legal societies or civitates , the other collegia and hetaeriae . but to us that do acknowledge that god hath a right of commanding men to what duty hee please himself , and appointing a society upon what terms best please him , and giving a power to particular persons to govern that society , in what way shall tend most to advance the honour of such a society , may easily bee made appear , that there is a kind of power neither properly coactive nor meerly arbitrary , viz. such a one as immediately results from divine institution , and doth suppose consent to submit to it as a necessary duty in all the members of this society . this power , it is evident , is not meerly arbitrary either in the governours or members , for the governours derive their power , or right of governing from the institution of christ and are to bee regulated by his laws in the execution of it , and the members , though their consent bee necessarily supposed , yet that consent is a duty in them , and that duty doth imply their submission to the rulers of this society : neither can this power bee called coactive , in the sense it is commonly taken , for coactive power , and external force are necessary correlates to each other , but wee suppose no such thing as a power of outward force to bee given to the church as such , for that properly belongs to a common-wealth . but the power which i suppose to bee lodged in the church , is such a power as depends upon a law of a superiour , giving right to govern , to particular persons over such a society , and making it the duty of all members of it to submit unto it , upon no other penalties , then the exclusion of them from the priviledges , which that society enjoys . so that supposing such a society , as the church is , to bee of divine institution , and that christ hath appointed officers to rule it , it necessarily follows , that those officers must derive their power , i. e. their right of governing this society , not meerly from consent and confederation of parties , but from that divine institution , on which the society depends . the want of understanding the right notion of power in the sense here set down , is certainiy the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of erastianisme , and that which hath given occasion to so many to question any such thing as power in the church , especially , when the more zealous then judicious defenders of it have rather chosen to hang it upon some doubtful places of scripture , then on the very nature and constitution of the christian church , as a society instituted by jesus christ. this being then the nature of power in general , it is , i suppose clear , that an outward coactive force is not necessary in order to it ; for if some may have a right to govern , and others may bee obliged to obedience to those persons antecedently , to any civil constitution ; then such persons have a just power , to inflict censures upon such as transgress the rules of the society , without any outward force . it is here very impertinent to dispute , what effects such censures can have upon wilful persons without a coactive power ; if i can prove , that there is a right to inflict them in church officers , and an obligation to submit to them in all offenders , i am not to trouble my self with the event of such things as depend upon divine institutions . i know it is the great objection of the followers of erastus , that church censures are inflicted upon persons unwilling to receive them , and therefore must imply external and coactive force , which is repugnant to the nature of a church . but this admits ( according to the principles here established ) of a very easie solution ; for i deny not , that churchpower goes upon consent , but then it s very plain here was an antecedent consent to submit to censures in the very entrance into this society , which is sufficient to denominate it a voluntary act of the persons undergoing it ; and my reason is this , every person entring into a society , parts with his own freedome and liberty , as to matters concerning the governing of it , and professeth submission to the rules and orders of it : now a man having parted with his freedome already , cannot reassume it when hee please , for then hee is under an obligation to stand to the covenants made at his entrance ; and consequently his undergoing what shall bee laid upon him by the laws of this society , must bee supposed to bee voluntary as depending upon his consent at first entrance , which in all societies must bee supposed to hold still , else there would follow nothing but confusion in all societies in the world , if every man were at liberty to break his covenants when any thing comes to lye upon him according to the rules of the society , which hee out of some private design would bee unwilling to undergo . thus much may serve to settle aright the notion of power ; the want of understanding which , hath caused all the confusion of this controversie . the next thing is , in what notion wee are to consider the church , which is made the subject of this power ? as to which wee are to consider ; this power either as to it 's right or in actu primo , or as to it's exercise , or in actu secundo : now if wee take this power as to the fundamental right of it , then it belongs to that universal church of christ , which subsists as a visible society , by vertue of that law of christ , which makes an owning the profession of christianity the duty of all church members . if wee consider this power in the exercise of it then ( it being impossible that the universal church should perform the executive part of this power relating to offences ) i suppose it lodged in that particular society of christians , which are united together in one body in the community of the same government ; but yet , so as , that the administration of this power , doth not belong to the body of the society considered complexly , but to those officers in it , whose care and charge it is , to have a peculiar oversight and inspection over the church , and to redress all disorders in it . thus the visive faculty is fundamentally lodged in the soul , yet all exterior acts of sight are performed by the eyes , which are the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 overseers of the body , as the other are of the church , so that the exercise and administration of this power , belongs to the special officers and governours of the church , none else being capable of exercising this power of the church as such , but they on whom it is setled by the founder of the church it 's self . this society of the church may bee again considered , either as subsisting without any influence from the civil power , or as it is owned by , and incorporated into a christian state . i therefore demand , whether it bee absolutely necessary for the subsistence of this christian society , to bee upheld by the civil power or no ? and certainly none who consider the first and purest ages of the christian church , can give any entertainment to the affirmative , because then the church flourished in it's greatest purity , not only when not upheld , but when most violently opposed by the civil power ; if so , then it 's being united with the civil state is only accidental , as to the constitution of a church ; and if this bee only accidental , then it must bee supposed furnished with every thing requisite to it 's well ordering , antecedenty to any such union , and abstractly from it . for can wee imagine our blessed saviour should institute a society , and leave it destitute of means to uphold it's self , unless it fell into the hands of the civil power ? or that hee left every thing tending thereto , meerly to prudence , and the arbritrary constitutions of the persons joyning together in this society ? did our saviour take care there should bee a society , and not provide for means to uphold it ? nay , it is evident , hee not only appointed a society , but officers to rule it ; had those officers then a right to govern it or no , by vertue of christs institution of them ? if not , they were rather bibuli than caesares , cyphers than consuls in the church of god. if they had a power to govern , doth not that necessarily imply a right to inflict censures on offenders ? unless 〈◊〉 will suppose that either there can bee no offenders in a christian church , or that those offenders do not violate the laws of the society , or there bee some prohibition for them to exercise their power over them ( which is to give power with one hand , and take it away with the other ) or that this power cannot extend so far as to exclude any from the priviledges of the church , which is the thing to bee discussed . having thus cleared our way , i now come to the resolution of the question its self , in order to which i shall endeavour to demonstrate with what evidence the subject is capable of these following things . first that the church is a peculiar society in its own nature , distinct from the common-wealth . secondly , that the power of the church over its members doth not arise from meer confederation or consent of parties . thirdly , that this power of the church doth extend to the exclusion of offenders from the priviledges of it . fourthly , that the fundamental rights of the church do not escheat to the common-wealth upon their being united in a christian state. if these principles bee established , the churches power will stand upon them , as on a firm and unmoveable basis . i begin with the first . that the church is a peculiar society in its own nature , distinct from the common-wealth , which i prove by these arguments . those societies , which are capable of subsisting apart from each other , are really , and in their own nature , distinct from one another , but so it is with the church and common-wealth . for there can bee no greater evidence of a reall distinction than mutual separation ; and i think the proving the possibility of the souls existing , separate from the body , is one of the strongest arguments to prove it to bee a substance really distinct from the body , to which it is united ; although wee are often fain to go the other way to work , and to prove possibility of separation from other arguments evincing the soul to bee a distinct substance ; but the reason of that is for want of evidence as to the state of separate souls , and their visible existence which is repugnant to the immateriality of their natures . but now , as to the matter in hand , wee have all evidence desirable , for wee are not put to prove possibil●●y of separation , meerly from the different constitution of the things united , but wee have evidence to sense of it , that the churh hath subsisted when it hath been not onely separated from but persecuted by all civil power . it is with many men as to the union of church and state , as it is with others , as to the union of the soul and body , when they observe how close the union is , and how much the soul makes use of the animal spirits in most of its operations , and how great a sympathy there is between them , that , like hyppocrates his twins , they laugh and weep ' together , they are shrewdly put to it , how to fancy the soul to bee any thing else then a more vigorous mode of matter ; so these observing how close an union and dependence there is between the church and state in a christian common-wealth , and how much the church is beholding to the civil power in the administration of its functions , are apt to think that the church is nothing but a higher mode of a common-wealth , considered as christian. but when it is so evident that the church hath , and may subsist supposing it abstracted from all civil power , it may bee a sufficient demonstration that however neer they may be when united , yet they are really and in their own nature , distinct from each other . which was the thing to bee proved . those are distinct societies , which have every thing distinct in their nature from each other , which belong to the constitution or government of them ; but this is evident , as to the church and common-wealth , which will appear , because their charter is distinct , or that which gives them their being as a society : civil societies are founded upon the necessity of particular mens parting with their peculiar rights , for the preservation of themselves , which was the impulsive cause of their entring into societies , but that which actually speaks them to bee a society , is the mutual consent of the several parties joyning together , whereby they make themselves to bee one body ; and to have one common interest . so cicero de repub. defines populus , to bee caetus multitudinis , juris consensu et utilitatis communione sociatus . there is no doubt , but gods general providence , is as evidently seen in bringing the world into societies and making them live under government , as in disposing all particular events which happen in those societies ; but yet the way , which providence useth in the constitution of these societies , is by inclining men to consent to associate for their mutual benefit and advantage : so that natural reason consulting for the good of mankinde , as to those rights which men enjoy in common with each other , was the main foundation upon which all civil societies were erected . wee finde no positive law enacting the beeing of civil societies , because nature it's self would prompt men for their own conveniencies to enter into them . but the ground and foundation of that society , which we call a church , is a matter which natural reason and common notions can never reach to ; and therefore an associating for the preserving of such , may bee a philosophical society , but a christian it cannot bee : and that would make a christian church to bee nothing else but a society of essens or an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of pythagorians , who do either not understand or not consider whereon this christian society is founded ; for it is evident they look on it as a meerly voluntary thing , that is not at all setled by any divine positive law. the truth is , there is no principle more consistent with the opinion of those who deny any church power in a christian state , then this is , and it is that , which every one , who will make good his ground must bee driven to ; for it is evident , that in matters meerly voluntary , and depending only on consideration , such things being lyable to a magistrates power , there can be no plea from mutual consent to justifie any opposition to supream authority in a common-wealth . but then , how such persons can bee christians , when the magistrates would have them to bee otherwise , i cannot understand ; nor how the primitive martyrs were any other then a company of fools or mad-men , who would hazard their lives , for that which was a meer arbritrary thing , and which they had no necessary obligation upon them to profess . mistake mee not , i speak not here of meer acts of discipline , but of the duty of outward professing christianity ; if this bee a duty , then a christian society is setled by a positive law , if it bee not a duty , then they are fools who suffer for it : so that this question resolved into it's principles , leads us higher than wee think for , and the main thing in debate must bee , whether there bee an obligation upon conscience for men to associate in the profession of christianity or no ? if there bee , then the church , which is nothing else but such an association , is established upon a positive law of christ ; if there bee not , then those inconveniencies follow , which are already mentioned . wee are told indeed by the leviathan with confidence enough , that no precepts of the gospel are law , till enacted by civil authority ; but it is little wonder , that hee , who thinks an immaterial substance implies a contradiction , should think as much of calling any thing a law , but what hath a civil sanction . but i suppose all those , who dare freely own a supreme and infinite essence to have been the creator , and to bee the ruler of the world , will acknowledge his power to oblige conscience , without being beholding to his own creature to enact his laws , that men might bee bound to obey them . was the great god fain to bee beholding to the civil authority hee had over the jewish common-wealth ( their government being a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) to make his laws obligatory to the consciences of the jews ? what , had not they their beings from god ? and can there bee any greater ground of obligation to obedience , than from thence ? whence comes civil power to have any right to oblige men more , than god , considered as governour of the world , can have ? can there bee indeed no other laws according to the leviathans hypothesis , but only the law of nature and civil laws ? but i pray whence comes the obligation to either of these , that these are not as arbitrary , as all other agreements are ? and is it not as strong a dictate of nature as any can bee ( supposing that there is a god ) that a creature which receives it's being from another , should bee bound to obey him , not only in the resultancies of his own nature , but with the arbitrary constitutions of his will : was adam bound to obey god or no , as to that positive precept of eating the forbiden fruit , if no civil sanction had been added to that law ? the truth is , such hypotheses as these are , when they are followed close home , will bee found to kennel in that black den , from whence they are loath to bee thought to have proceeded . and now , supposing , that every full declaration of the will of christ , as to any positive institution , hath the force and power of a law upon the consciences of all , to whom it is sufficiently proposed : i proceed to make appear , that such a divine positive law there is , for the existence of a church , as a visible body and society in the world ; by which i am far from meaning such a conspicuous society , that must continue in a perpetual visibility in the same place ; i finde not the least intimation of any such thing in scripture ; but that there shall alwaies bee some where or other , in the world , a society owning and professing christianity , may bee easily deduced from thence ; and especially on this account , that our saviour hath required this , as one of the conditions in order to eternal felicity , that all those who beleeve in their hearts , that jesus is the christ , must likewise confess him with their mouths to the world : and therefore , as long as there are men to beleeve in christ , there must bee men that will not bee ashamed to associate , on the account of the doctrine hee hath promulged to the world . that one phrase in the new testament , so frequently used by our blessed saviour , of the kingdome of heaven ( importing a gospel state ) doth evidently declare a society , which was constituted by him , on the principles of the gospel covenant . wherefore should our saviour call disciples , and make apostles , and send them abroad with full commission to gather and initiate disciples by baptism ; did hee not intend a visible society for his church ? had it not been enough for men to have cordially beleeved the truth of the gospel , but they must bee enter'd in a solemn visible way , and joyn in participation of visible symbols of bread and wine , but that our saviour required external profession and society in the gospel as a necessary duty , in order to obtaining the priviledges conveyed by his magna charta in the gospel . i would fain know , by what argument wee can prove , that any humane legislator , did ever intend a common-wealth to bee governed according to his mode , by which wee cannot prove that christ by a positive law , did command such a society , as should be governed in a visible manner , as other societies are ? did he not appoint officers himself in the church , and that of many ranks and degrees ? did hee not invest those officers with authority to rule his church ? is it not laid as a charge on them , to take heed to that flock over which god had made them overseers ? are there not rules laid down for the peculiar exercise of their government over the church in all the parts of it ? were not these officers admitted into their function by a most solemn visible rite of imposition of hands ? and are all these solemn transactions a meer peece of sacred pageantry ? and they will appear to bee little more , if the society of the church bee a meer arbitrary thing , depending onely upon consent and confederation , and not subsisting by vertue of any charter from christ , or some positive law , requiring all christians to joyn in church society together . but if now from hence it appears ( as certainly it cannot but appear ) that this society of the church doth subsist by vertue of a divine positive law , then it must of necessity be distinct from any civil society , and that on these accounts , first because there is an antecedent obligation on conscience to associate on the account of christianity , whether humane laws prohibit or command it . from whence , of necessity it follows , that the constitution of the church is really different from that of the common-wealth ; because whether the common-wealth bee for , or against this society , all that own ir are bound to profess it openly , and declare themselves members of it . whereas were the church and common-wealth really and formally the same , all obligation to church society would arise meerly from the legislative power of the common-wealth . but now there being a divine law , binding in conscience , whose obligation cannot bee superseded by any humane law , it is plain and evident , where are such vastly different obligations , there are different powers ; and in this sense i know no incongruity in admitting imperium in imperio , if by it wee understand no external coactive power , but an internal power laying obligation on conscience , distinct from the power lodged in a common-wealth considered as such . an outward coactive power was alwayes disowned by christ , but certainly not an internall power over conscience to oblige all his disciples to what duties hee thought fit . secondly i argue from those officers , whose rights to govern this society are founded on that charter , whereby the society its self subsists . now i would willingly know why , when our saviour disowned all outward power in the world , yet he should constitute a society and appoint officers in it , did hee not intend a peculiar distinct society from the other societies of the world . and therefore the argument frequently used against church-power , because it hath no outward force with it by the constitution of christ , is a strong argument to mee of the peculiarity of a christian society from a common-wealth , because christ so instituted it , as not to have it ruled at first by any outward force or power . when christ saith his kingdome was not of this world ; hee implies , that hee had a society that was governed by his laws in the world , yet distinct from all mundane societies : had not our saviour intended his church to have been a peculiar society , distinct from a common-wealth , why our saviour should interdict the apostles the use of a civil coactive power : or why instead of sending abroad apostles to preach the gospel , hee did not imploy the governours of common-wealths to have inforced christianity by laws and temporal edicts , and the several magistrates to have impowred several persons under them to preach the gospel in their several territories ? and can any thing bee more plain , by our saviours taking a contrary course , then that hee intended a church society to bee distinct from civil , and the power belonging to it , ( as well as the officers ) to bee of a different nature from that which is settled in a common-wealth . i here suppose , that christ hath by a positive law established the government of his church upon officers of his own appointment ; which i have largely proved elsewhere , and therefore suppose it now . thirdly , i argue from the peculiar rights belonging to these societies . for if every one born in the common-wealth , have not thereby a right to the priviledges of the church ; nor every one by being of the church , any right to the benefits of the common-wealth ; it must necessarily follow , that these are distinct from one another . if any one by being of the common-wealth , hath right to church priviledges , then every one born in a common-wealth may challenge a right to the lords supper without baptism or open professing christianity , which i cannot think any will bee very ready to grant . now there being by divine appointment the several rights of baptisme and the lords supper , as peculiar badges of the church as a visible society , it is evident , christ did intend it a society distinct from the common-wealth . fourthly , i argue from the different ends of these societies , a common-wealth is constituted for civil ends , and the church for spiritual : for ends are to be judged by the primary constitution , but now it is plain , the end of civil society is for preservation of mens rights as men ( therefore magistracy is called by st. peter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) but this christian society doth not respect men under the connotation of men but as christians . the answer given to this is very short , and insufficient when it is said , that every man in a common-wealth , is to act upon spiritual accounts and ends : for there is a great deal of difference between christianities having an influence upon mens actings in a common-wealth , and making a society the same with a common-wealth . to argue therefore from one to another , is a shortness of discourse i cannot but wonder at : unless it could bee proved , that christianity aimed at nothing else but regulating men in the affairs of a common-wealth , which is a taske i suppose will not bee undertaken . lastly , i argue from the peculiar offences against this society , which are , or may bee distinct from those against a common-wealth , i deny not , but most times they are the same ; but frequently they differ , and when they are the same , yet the consideration of them is different in the church and common-wealth , for which i shall suppose the six arguments produced in the last chapter of the first part to stand good , which will strongly hold to excommunication in the christian church , though there produced only for the jewish . i would fain know what is to bee done in many offences , known to bee against the laws of christ , and which tend to the dishonour of the christian society , which the civil and municipal laws , either do not , or may not take cognizance of ? thus much may serve , as i think to make evident , that the church in it's own nature is a peculiar society distinct from a common-wealth , which was the first proposition to bee proved . the second is , that the power of the church over it's members in case of offences , doth not arise meerly from confederation and consent , though it doth suppose it . this church power may bee considered two waies . either , first , as it implies the right in some of inflicting censures . or secondly , as it implies in others , the duty of submitting to censures inflicted ; now as to both these , i shall prove that their original is higher than meer confederation . . as to the right of inflicting censures , on these accounts . first , what ever society doth subsist by vertue of a divine constitution , doth by vertue thereof derive all power for it's preservation , in peace , unity , and purity ; but it is plain , that a power of censuring offenders , is necessary for the churches preservation in peace and purity ; and it is already proved , that the church hath it's charter from christ , and therefore from him it hath a power to inflict punishments on offenders , suitable to the nature of the society they are of . i am very prone to think that the ground of all the mistakes on this subject have risen from hence , that some , imprudently enough , have fixt the original of this power on some ambiguous places of scripture , which may , and it may bee , ought to bee taken in a different sense ; and their adversaries , finding those places weak and insufficient proofes of such a power , have from thence rejected any such kinde of power at all ; but certainly if wee should reject every truth that is weakly proved by some who have undertaken it , i know no opinion would bid so fair for acceptance as scepticisme , and that in reference to many weighty & important truths ; for how weakly have some proved the existence of a deity , the immortality of the soul , and the truth of the scriptures , by such arguments , that if it were enough to overthrow an opinion to bee able to answer some arguments brought for it , atheism it's self would become plausible . it can bee then no evidence , that a thing is not true , because some arguments will not prove it ; and truly , as to the matter in hand , i am fully of the opinion of the excellent h. grotius , speaking of excommunication in the christian church : neque ad eam rem peculiare praeceptum desideratur , cum ecclesiae caetu , a christo semel constituto , omnia illa imperata censeri debent , sine quibus ejus caetûs puritas retineri non potest . and therefore men spend needless pains to prove an institution of this power by some positive precept , when christs founding his church , as a particular society , is sufficient proof hee hath endowed it with this fundamental right , without which the society , were arena sine calce , a company of persons without any common tye of union among them ; for if there bee any such union , it must depend on some conditions , to bee performed by the members of that society , which how could they require from them , if they have not power to exclude them upon non-performance ? . i prove the divine original of this power from the special appointment and designation of particular officers by jesus christ , for the ruling this society . now i say , that law which provides there shall bee officers to govern , doth give them power to govern , suitable to the nature of their society : either then you must deny , that christ hath by an unalterable institution appointed a gospel ministry , or that this ministry hath no power in the church , or that their power extends not to excommunication . the first i have already proved , the second follows from their appointment , for by all the titles given to church officers in scripture ; it appears they had a power over the church , ( as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ) all which as you well know , do import a right to govern the society over which they are set . and that this power should not extend to a power to exclude , convict offenders , seems very strange , when no other punishment can bee more suitable to the nature of the society than this is ; which is a debarring him from the priviledges of that society , which the offender hath so much dishonoured . can there bee any punishment less imagined towards contumacious offenders then this is , or that carries in it less of outward and coactive force , it implying nothing but what the offender himself freely yeilded to at his entrance into this society ? all that i can find replyed by any of the adversaryes of the opinion i here assert , to the argument drawn from the institution and titles of the officers of the church , is , that all those titles which are given to the ministers of the gospel in the new testament , that do import rule and government , are all to bee taken in a spirituall sense , as they are christs ministers and ambassadors to preach his word and declare his will to his church . so that all power such persons conceive to lye in those titles , is onely doctrinal and declarative ; but how true that is , let any one judge , that considers these things . . that there was certainly a power of discipline then in the churches constituted by the apostles , which is most evident not only from the passages relating to offendors in saint pauls epistles , especially to the corinthians and thessalonians , but from the continued practice of succeeding ages , manifested by tertullian , cyprian , and many others . there being then a power of discipline in apostolical churches , there was a necessity it should be administred by some persons who had the care of those churches ; and who were they but the several pastors of them ? it being then evident that there was such a power , doth it not stand to common sense it should be implyed in such titles which in their natural importance do signifie a right to govern , as the names of pastors and rulers do ? . there is a diversity in scripture made between pastors and teachers , ephes. . . though this may not ( as it doth not ) imply a necessity of two distinct offices in the church , yet it doth a different respect and connotation in the same person ▪ and so imports that ruling carries in it somewhat more then meer teaching , and so the power implyed in pastors to be more then meerly doctrinal , which is all i contend for , viz. a right to govern the flock committed to their charge . . what possible difference can be assigned between the elders that rule well , and those which labour in word and doctrine , ( tim. . . ) if all their ruling were meerly labouring in the word and doctrine ? and all their governing nothing but teaching ? i intend not to prove an office of rulers distinct from teachers from hence ( which i know neither this place , nor any other will do ) but that the formal conception of ruling , is different from that of teaching . . i argue from the analogy between the primitive churches and the synagogues , that as many of the names were taken from thence where they carried a power of discipline with them , so they must do in some proportion in the church ; or it were not easie understanding them . it is most certain the presbyters of the synagogue had a power of ruling ; and can you conceive the bishops and presbyters of the church had none , when the societies were much of the same constitution , and the government of the one was transcribed from the other , as hath been already largely proved ? . the acts attributed to pastors in scripture , imply a power of governing , distinct from meer teaching ; such are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , used for a right to govern , matth. . . revel . . . — . . which word is attributed to pastors of churches in reference to their flocks . acts . . pet. . . and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is applyed to ministers , when they are so frequently called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which notes praesidentiam eum potestate ; for hesychius renders is by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 at athens had certainly a power of government in them . . the very word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is attributed to those who have over-sight of churches , cor. . . by which it is certainly evident , that a power more then doctrinal is understood , as that it could not then be understood of a power meerly civil . and this i suppose may suffice to vindicate this argument from the titles of church-officers in the new testament , that they are not insignificant things , but the persons who enjoyed them had a right to govern the society over which the holy-ghost hath made them over-seers . . i argue that church power ariseth not meerly from consent , because the church may exercise her power on such who have not actually confederated with her ; which is in admitting members into the church : for if the church-officers have power to judge whether persons are fit to be admitted , they have power to exclude from admission such whom they judge unfit , and so their power is exercised on those who are not confederated . to this it may be answered , that the consent to be judged , gives the church power over the person suing for admission . i grant it doth , as to that particular person , but the right in general of judging concerning admission , doth argue an antecedent power to an actual confederation . for i will suppose that christ should now appoint some officers to found a church , and gather a society of christians together , where there hath been none before : i now ask , whether these officers have power to admit any into the church or no ? this i suppose cannot be denyed , for to what end else were they appointed ? if it be granted they have power to admit persons , and thereby make a church , then they had power antecedently to any confederation ; for the confederation was subsequent to their admission ; and therefore they who had power to admit , could not derive their power from confederation . this argument , to me , puts the case out of dispute , that all church-power cannot arise from meer confederation . and that which further evidenceth that the power of the church doth not arise from meer consent , is that deed of gift whereby our blessed saviour did confer the power of the keyes on the apostle peter , as the representative in that action of the whole colledge of the apostles and governours of the church , of which power all the apostles were actually infeoffed , john . . by which power of the keyes is certainly meant some administration in the church , which doth respect it as a visible society , in which sense the church is so frequently called , as in that place , the kingdom of heaven ; and in all probability the administration intended here by the power of the keyes , is that we are now discoursing of , viz. the power of admission into the church of christ in order to the pardon of the sins of all penitent believers , and the shutting out of such who were manifestly unworthy of so holy a communion . so that the power of the keyes doth not primarily respect exclusion out of the church , and receiving into it again upon absolution , but it chiefly respects the power of admission into the church , though by way of connotation and analogy of reason it will carry the other along with it . for if the apostles as governours of the church were invested with a power of judging of mens fitness for admission into the church as members of it , it stands to the highest reason that they should have thereby likewise a power conveyed to them , of excluding such as are unworthy after their admission , to maintain communion with the church . so that this interpretation of the power of the keyes , is far from invalidating the power of the church , as to its censuring offendors ; all that it pretends to , is only giving a more natural and genuine sense of the power of the keyes , which will appear so to be , if we consider these things . . that this power was given to saint peter before any christian church was actually formed , which ( as i have elsewhere made manifest ) was not done till after christs resurrection ; when christ had given the apostles their commission to go preach and baptize , &c. matth. . . is it not therefore far more rational that the power of the keyes here given , should respect the founding of a church and admission into it , then ejection out of it ( before it was in being ) and receiving into it again ? and this we find likewise remarkably fulfilled in the person of the apostle peter , who opened the door of admission into the christian church , both to jews and gentiles . so the jews by his sermon at pentecost , when about . souls were brought into the church of christ. so the gentiles , as is most evident in the story of cornelius , acts . . who was the first fruits of the gentiles . so that if we should yield so far to the great inhancers of saint peters power , that something was intended peculiar to his person in the keyes given him by our saviour , we hereby see how rationally it may be understood without the least advantage to the extravagant pretensions of saint peters pretended successors . . the pardon of sin in scripture is most annexed to baptism and admission into the church , and thence it seems evident that the loosing of sin should be by admitting into the church by baptism , in the same sense by which baptism is said to save us , and it is called the washing of regeneration , respecting the spiritual advantages which come by admission into the church of christ ; and so they are said to have their sins bound upon them , who continue refractory in their sins , as simon magus is said to be in the bonds of iniquity . . the metaphor of the keyes referrs most to admission into the house , and excluding out of it , rather then ejecting any out of it , and re-admitting them . thus when eliakim is said to have the keyes of the house of david , it was in regard of his power to open and shut upon whom he pleased . and thus cyprian , as our learned mr. thorndike observes , understands the power of binding and loosing in this sense , in his epistle to john , where speaking of the remission of sins in baptism , he brings these very words of our saviour to peter as the evidence of it ; that what he should loose on earth should be loosed in heaven ; and concludes with this sentence . vnde intelligimus non nisi in ecclesiâ praepositis & in evangelicâ lege ac dominicâ ordinati●ne fundatis licere baptizare , & remissam peccatorum dare ; foris autem nec ligari aliquid posse nec solvi , ubi non sit qui ligare possit aut solvere . that which i now inferr from this discourse is , that the power of the church doth not arise from meer consent and confederation , both because this power doth respect those who have not actually consented to it , and because it is settled upon the governours of the church by divine institution . thus it appears that the right of inflicting censures doth not result meerly ex confederatâ disciplinâ , which was the thing to be proved . the like evidence may be given , for the duty of submitting to penalties or church-censures in the members of the church : which that it ariseth not from meer consent of parties , will appear on these accounts . . every person who enters this society , is bound to consent , before he doth it , because of the obligation lying upon conscience to an open profession of christianity , presently upon conviction of the understanding of the truth and certainty of christian religion . for when once the mind of any rational man is so far wrought upon by the influence of the divine spirit , as to discover the most rational and undoubted evidences which there are of the truth of christianity , he is presently obliged to profess christ openly , to worship him solemnly , to assemble with others for instruction and participation of gospel-ordinances ; and thence it follows that there is an antecedent obligation upon conscience to associate with others , and consequently to consent to be governed by the rulers of the society which he enters into . so that this submission to the power of church-officers in the exercise of discipline upon offendors , is implyed in the very conditions of christianity , and the solemn professing and undertaking of it . . it were impossible any society should be upheld , if it be not laid by the founder of the society as the necessary duty of all members to undergo the penalties which shall be inflicted by those who have the care of governing that society , so they be not contrary to the laws , nature , and constitution of it . else there would be no provision made for preventing divisions and confusions which will happen upon any breach made upon the laws of the society . now this obligation to submission to censures , doth speak something antecedently to the confederation , although the expression of it lies in the confederation its self . by this i hope we have made it evident that it is nothing else but a mistake in those otherwise learned persons , who make the power of censures in the christian-church to be nothing else but a lex cenfederatae disciplinae , whereas this power hath been made appear to be derived from a higher original then the meer arbitrary consent of the several members of the church associating together : and how far the examples of the synagogues under the law , are from reaching that of christian churches in reference to this , because in these the power is conveyed by the founder of the society , and not left to any arbitrary constitutions , as it was among the jews in their synagogues . it cannot be denyed but consent is supposed , and confederation necessary , in order to church power , but that is rather in regard of the exercise , then the original of it ; for although i affirm the original of this power to be of divine institution , yet in order to the exercise of it in reference to particular persons ( who are not mentioned in the charter of the power its self ) it is necessary that the persons on whom it is exerted , should declare their consent and submission either by words or actions , to the rules and orders of this society . having now proved that the power of the church doth not arise from meer consent of parties , the next grand inquiry is concerning the extent of this power , whether it doth reach so far as to excommunication ? for some men who will not seem wholly to deny all power in the church over offendors , nor that the church doth subsist by divine institution , yet do wholly deny any such power as that of excommunication , and seem rather to say that church officers may far more congruously to their office inflict any other mulct upon offendors , then exclude them from participation of communion with others in the ordinances and sacraments of the gospel : in order therefore to the clearing of this , i come to the third proposition . that the power which christ hath given to the officers of his church , doth extend to the exclusion of contumacious offendors from the priviledges which this society enjoyes . in these terms i rather choose to fix it , then in those crude expressions , wherein erastus and some of his followers would state the question , and some of their imprudent adversaries have accepted it , viz. whether church-officers have power to exclude any from the eucharist , ob moralem impuritatem ? and the reasons why i wave those terms , are , . i must confess my self yet unsatisfied as to any convincing argument , whereby it can be proved that any were denyed admission to the lords supper , who were admitted to all other parts of church-society , and owned as members in them . i cannot yet see any particular reason drawn from the nature of the lords supper above all other parts of divine worship , which should confine the censures of the church meerly to that ordinance ; and so to make the eucharist bear the same office in the body of the church , which our new anatomists tell us the parenchyme of the liver doth in the natural body , viz. to be colum sanguinis , to serve as a kind of strainer to separate the more gross and faeculent parts of the blood from the more pure and spirituous ; so the lords supper to strain out the more impure members of the church from the more holy and spiritual . my judgement then is , that excommunication relates immediately to the cutting a person off from communion with the churches visible society , constituted upon the ends it is ; but because communion is not visibly discerned but in administration and participation of gospel ordinances , therefore exclusion doth chiefly refer to these , and because the lords supper is one of the highest priviledges which the church enjoyes , therefore it stands to reason that censures should begin there . and in that sense suspension from the lords supper of persons apparently unworthy , may be embraced as a prudent , lawful and convenient abatement of the greater penalty of excommunication , and so to stand on the same general grounds that the other doth ; for qui potest majus , potest etiam minus , which will hold as well in moral as natural power , if there be no prohibition to the contrary , nor peculiar reason as to the one more then to the other . . i dislike the terms ob moralem impuritatem , on this account , because i suppose they were taken up by erastus ▪ and from him by others as the controversie was managed concerning excommunication among the jews , viz. whether it were meerly because of ceremonial , or else likewise because of moral impurity . as to which i must ingenuously acknowledge erastus hath very much the advantage of his adversaries , clearly proving that no persons under the law were excluded the temple-worship because of moral impurity . but then withall i think he hath gained little advantage to his cause by the great and successful pains he hath taken in the proving of that ; my reason is , because the temple-worship or the sacrifices under the law were in some sense propitiatory , as they were the adumbrations of that grand sacrifice which was to be offered up for the appeasing of gods wrath , viz. the blood of christ ; therefore to have excluded any from participation of them , had been to exclude them from the visible way of obtaining pardon of sin ( which was not to be had without shedding of blood , as the apostle tells us ) and from testifying their faith towards god , and repentance from dead works . but now under the gospel those ordinances , which suppose admission into the church by baptism , do thereby suppose an alsufficient sacrifice offered for the expiation of sin , and consequently the subsequent priviledges do not immediately relate to the obtaining of that , but a grateful comemmoration of the death of christ , and a celebration of the infinite mercy and goodness of god in the way of redemption found out by the death of his son. and therefore it stands to great reason that such persons , who by their profane and unworthy lives dishonour so holy a profession , should not be owned to be as good and sound members of the society founded on so sacred a foundation , as the most christian and religious persons . to this , i know nothing can be objected , but that first , the passeover was commemorative among the jews ; and secondly , that the priviledges of that people were then very great above other people , and therefore if god had intended any such thing as excommunication among his people , it would have been in use then . to these i answer . . i grant the passeover was commemorative as to the occasion of its institution ; but then it was withall typical and annunciative of that lamb of god who was to take away the sins of the world , and therefore no person who desired expiation of sins , was to be debard from it ; but the lords supper under the gospel hath nothing in it propitiatory , but is intended as a feast upon a sacrifice and a federal rite , as hath been fully cleared by a very learned person in his discourse about the true notion of the lords supper . . i grant the jews had very many priviledges above other nations : nay so far , that the whole body of the people were looked upon as gods chosen , and peculiar and holy people ; and from thence i justly infer that whatever exclusion was among the people of the jews from their society , will far better hold as an argument for excommunication under the christian church , then if it had been a meer debarring from their levitical worship . and that i should far sooner insist upon , from the reason assigned , as the ground of excommunication , then the other infirm and profligated argument ; and so the exclusion out of the camp of israel and the cerith among the jews ( whatever we understand by it ) may à pari hold to a ground of exclusion from the christian society : in imitation of which , i rather suppose that exclusion out of the synagogues was after taken up , rather then as a meer out-lawry , when they were deprived of civill power . the question then being thus clearly stated , it amounts to this , whether under the gospel , there be any power in the officers of the church by vertue of divine institution to exclude any offenders out of the christian society , for transgressing the laws of it ? and according to our former propositions , i suppose it will be sufficient to prove that power to be of divine institution , if i prove it to be fundamentally and intrinsecally resident in the society its self . for what ever doth immediately result from the society it self , must have the same original which the subject hath , because this hath the nature of an inseparable property resulting from its constitution . for the clearing of which , i shall lay down my thoughts of it as clearly and methodically as i can ; and that in these following hypotheses . . where there is a power of declaring any person to be no true member of the society he is in , there is a formal power of excommunication : for this is all which i intend by it , viz. an authoritative pronouncing virtute officii , any convict offender to have forfeited his interest in the church as a christian society : and to lose all the priviledges of i● : so that if this power be lodged in any church officer , then he hath power formally to excommunicate . . where the enjoyment of the priviledges of a society is not absolute and necessary , but depends upon conditions to be performed by every member , of which the society is judge , there is a power in the rulers of that society to debarr any person from such priviledges , upon non-performance of the conditions . as supposing the jus civitatis to depend upon defending the rights of the city ; upon a failing in referente to this in any person admitted to citizen-ship , the rulers of the city have the same power to take that right away , which they had at first to give it ; because that right was never absolutely given , but upon supposition that the person did not overthrow the ends for which it was bestowed upon him . . the church is such a society in which communion is not absolute and necessary , but it doth depend on the performance of some conditions , of which the governours of it are the competent judges : and that appears , . because the admission into the church , depends upon conditions to be judged by pastors , as in case of adult persons requiring baptism , and the children of infidels being baptized : in both which cases it is evident that conditions are prerequisite , of which the pastors are judges . . because the priviledges of this society do require a separation from other societies in the world , and calls for greater holiness and purity of life ; and those very priviledges are pledges of greater benefits which belong only to persons qualified with suitable conditions ; it would therefore be a very great dishonour to this society , if it lay as common and open as other societies in the world do , and no more qualifications required from the members of it . . we have instances in the sacred records of apostolical times , of such scandals which have been the ground of the exclusion of the persons guilty of them from the priviledges of the christian society . and here i suppose we may ( notwithstanding all the little evasions which have been found out ) fix on the incestuous person in the church of corinth . as to which i lay not the force of the argument upon the manner of execution of the censure then , viz. by delegation from an apostle , or the apostolical rod , or delivering to satan ; for i freely grant that these did then import an extraordinary power in the apostles over offenders ; but i say the ground and reason of the exercise of that power in such an extraordinary manner at that time , doth still continue , although not in that visible extraordinary effect which it then had . and whatever practice is founded upon grounds perpetual and common , that practice must continue as long as the grounds of it do , and the churches capacity will admit ; ( which hypothesis is the only rational foundation on which episcopal government in the church doth stand firm and unshaken , and which in the former discourse i am far from undermining of , as any intelligent reader may perceive ) now i say that it is evident that the reasons of the apostles censure of that person , are not fetched from the want of christian magistrates , but from such things which will hold as long as any christian church : which are the dishonour of the society . corinth . , . the spreading of such corruptions further , if they pass uncensured . corinth . . . and amendment of the person , cor. . . upon these pillars the power of censures rests it self in the church of god , which are the main grounds of penalties in all societies whatsoever , viz. the preservation of the honour of them , and preventing of further mischief , and doing good to the offending party . and that which seems to add a great deal of weight to this instance , is , that the apostle checks the corinthians that before the exercise of the apostolical rod , they were not of themselves sensible of so great a dishonour to the church as that was , and had not used some means for the removing such a person from their society . and ye are puffed up , and have not rather mourned that he that hath done this deed may be taken away from among you , corinth . . . therein implying , that whether there had been such a thing in the church , or no , as the apostolical rod , it had been the duty of a christian society to have done their endeavour in order to the removing such a person from their number . but further , i cannot understand , how it should be a duty in christians to withdraw from every brother who walketh disorderly , and church-officers not to have power to pronounce such a person to be withdrawn from , which amounts to excommunication . it is not to me at all material , whether they did immediately relate to civil or sacred converse , ( concerning which there is so much dispute ) for in which soever we place it , if church-officers have a power to pronounce such a person to be withdrawn from , they have a power of excommunication ; so we consider this penalty as inflicted on the person in his relation to the society as a christian ; and withall , how nearly conjoyned their civil and spiritual eating were together , corinth , . , . and how strongly the argument will hold from civil to sacred , viz. à remotione unius ad remotionem alterius , not from any fancyed pollution in sacris from the company of wicked men , but from the dishonour reflecting on the society from such unworthy persons partaking of the highest priviledges of it . thus from these three hypotheses this corollary follows , that where any persons in a church do by their open and contumacious offences , declare to the world that they are far from being the persons they were supposed to be in their admission into the church , there is a power resident in the pastors of the church to debar such persons from the priviledges of it , and consequently from communion in the lords supper . . because this expresseth the nearest union and closest confederation , as the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 among the grecian common-wealths did . . because this hath been alwayes looked on with greatest veneration in the church of god ; and therefore it is least of all fit those persons should be admitted to the highest priviledges of the church , which are unworthy of the lowest of them . there remain only some few objections which are levelled against this opinion concerning the power of excommunication , which from the question being thus stated and proved , will be soon removed . the first is that this excommunication is an outward punishment , and therefore belongs not to church-officers , but to the magistrate . . because it neither is nor ever was in the power of any church-officer to debar any offending member from publick worship , because any heathens may come to it . . it cannot lie as to exclusion from the lords supper , because christ is offered as spiritual food , as well in the word preached as in the sacrament . to these i answer . . i do not well understand what the objectors mean by an outward punishment ; for there can be no punishment belonging to a visible society , ( such as the church is here considered to be ) but it must be visible , i. e. outward , or a thing to be taken notice of in the world ; and in this sense i deny that all visible punishment belongs only to the magistrate ; but if by outward , be meant forcible punishment , then i grant that all coactive power belongs to the magistrate ; but i deny that excommunication formally considered , is a forcible punishment . . because every person at his entrance into this society , is supposed to declare his submission to the rules of the society ; and therefore whatever he after undergoes by way of penalty in this society , doth depend upon that consent . . a person stands excommunicate legally and de jure , who is declared authoritativly to be no member of the society , though he may be present at the acts of it ; as a defranchised person may be at those of a corporation . . a person falling into those offences which merit excommunication , is supposed in so doing , voluntarily to renounce his interest in those prviledges , the enjoyment of which doth depend upon abstaining from those offences which he wilfully falls into ; especially if contumacy be joyned with them , as it is before excommunication ; for then nothing is done forcibly towards him ; for he first relinquisheth his right , before the church-governour declares him excluded the society . so that the offendor doth meritoriously excommunicate himself , the pastor doth it formally , by declaring that he hath made himself no member by his offences and contumacy joyned with them . to the second i answer , that i do not place the formality of excommunication in exclusion from hearing the word , but in debarring the person from hearing tanquam pars eoclesiae , as a member of the church , and so his hearing may be well joined with that of heathens and infidels , and not of members of the church . to the third i answer , that exclusion from the lords supper is not on the accounts mentioned in the objection , but because it is one of the chiefest priviledges of the church , as it is a visible society . having thus cleared and asserted the power of excommunication in a christian church , there remains only one enquiry more , which is , whether this power doth remain formally in the church , after its being incorporated into the common-wealth , or else doth it then escheate wholly into the civil power ? the resolution of which question mainly depends on another spoken to already ; viz. whether this power was only a kind of widows estate , which belonged to it only during its separation from the civil power , or was the church absolutely infeoffed of it as its perpetual right , belonging to it in all conditions whatsoever it should be in ? now that must appear by the tenure of it , and the grounds on which it was conveyed , which having been proved already to be perpetual and universal , it from thence appears that no accession to the church can invalidate its former title . but then as in case of marriage , the right of disposal and well management of the estate coming by the wife , belongs to the husband ; so after the church is married into the common wealth , the right of supream management of this power in an external way doth fall into the magistrates hands . which may consist in these following things . . a right of prescribing laws for the due management of church-censures . a right of bounding the manner of proceeding in censures , that in a settled christian state , matters of so great weight be not left to the arbitrary pleasure of any church-officers , nor such censures inflicted but upon an evident conviction of such great offences which tend to the dishonour of the christian church , and that in order to the amendment of the offendors life . . the right of adding temporal and civil sanctions to church-censures and so enforcing the spiritual weapons of the church , with the more keen and sharp ones of the civil state . thus i assert the force and efficacy of all church-censures in foro humano to flow from the civil power , and that there is no proper effect following any of them as to civil rights , but from the magistrates sanction . . to the magistrate belongs the right of appeals in case of unjust censures ; not that the magistrate can repeal a just censure in the church , as to its spiritual effects ; but he may suspend the temporal effect of it : in which case it is the duty of pastors to discharge their office and acquiesce . but this power of the magistrate in the supream ordering of ecclesiastical as well as civil causes , i have fully asserted and cleared already . from which it follows , that as to any outward effects of the power of excommunication , the person of the supream magistrate must be exempted , both because the force of these censures doth flow from him in a christian state , and that there otherwise would be a progress in infinitum , to know whether the censure of the magistrate were just or no. i conclude then , that though the magistrate hath the main care of ordering things in the church , yet ( the magistrates power in the church being cumulative , and not privative ) the church and her officers retain the fundamental right of inflicting censures on offenders : which was the thing to be proved . dedit deus his quoque finem . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e §. . §. . §. . §. . §. . §. . §. . §. . §. . §. . §. . §. . apud . agust . de civit. de l. . c. . §. . §. . §. . §. . iren. p. . c. . iren. p. . c. . §. . §. . in luk. . §. . §. . matth. . . iren. p. . ch . §. . p. . acts . . pet. . . tit. . . acts . . isa. . . cypr. ep. . sect . . §. . §. . heb. . . §. . cor. . . thess. . . §. . iren. p. . c. . sect . . a letter to mr. g. giving a true account of a late conference at the d. of p. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a letter to mr. g. giving a true account of a late conference at the d. of p. stillingfleet, edward, - . godden, thomas, - . p. printed for h. mortlock ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to edward stillingfleet. cf. bm. last page signed: e.s. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng tradition (theology) - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a letter to mr. g. giving a true account of a late conference at the d. of p. imprimatur , martii . / . guil. needham . london , printed for h. mortlock at the phoenix in saint paul's church-yard . . a letter to mr. g. giving a true account of a late conference at the d. of p. sir , i was very much surprised at the sight of several copies you have given out of the conference between us at my house in ianuary last . for although you took great care in the conference it self to keep me from expecting any great ingenuity from you after it ; yet i could hardly believe you would have ventured so far as to have given out such false and imperfect copies of what past as all those have been which came to my hands , and were all said to be dispersed by you . you know very well that the gentleman who wrote for you never read his papers in the conclusion , that we might judge how fairly he had represented both sides : and when they were neither read , nor compared , nor signed as they ought to have been , with what ingenuity can these be dispersed through so many hands for true and authentick copies ? at least you ought to have sent them to me and to have answered my objections against them before you had read them in coffee-houses , and made such descants upon them in places where you were sure i would not be present to contradict you . but when nothing was done to make your copy appear to be good , they must be of very easie faith and understanding who would take your word in this matter , without so much as any motives of credibility . i hear you made great boasts of your victory after the conference , which i onely smiled at , and thought you hoped to make your self considerable by your vanity . if you gain no greater victories , you will very little increase the number of your converts : for the gentleman for whose sake the conference was , declared immediately after it , that he was much more confirmed in the communion of our church by it , and resolved to continue in it ; which he hath since repeated several times to me . but of all the persons of your church , i have yet met with , you had least reason to go away with the boast of a victory . for i pray call but to mind how the conference ended , and i think you will be ashamed of your boasting . when you came to your demonstration of infallibility in the church of rome , which came to this in short , that all traditionary christians believe the same to day which they did yesterday , and so up to the time of our blessed saviour and if they follow this rule they can never err in faith , therefore are infallible ; and you proved they could not innovate in faith unless they did forget what they held the day before , or out of malice alter it ; i thought the best way to shew the vanity of this rare demonstration was to produce an instance of such as followed tradition and yet you could not deny to have erred , and that was of the greek church , which went upon tradition from father to son , as much as ever the roman did : and i desired to know of you whether the greek church notwithstanding did not err in matters of faith ; and if it did , then a church holding to tradition was not infallible . your answer was , that the greek church followed tradition , till the arians left that rule and took up a new one , i. e. scripture privately interpreted . i told you i did not mean the arians , but the present greek church ( which you charge with heresie ) and yet they follow tradition from father to son. this i was forced to repeat over and over , but no answer could i get from you , but you still ran back to the arians , and compared them and the calvinists , which i told you was not at all to the purpose ; for i insisted upon the present greek church , and so you rose up in a heat , and endeavoured to keep those who wrote from setting down this last part as it ought to have been . in the papers dispersed by you , you make me barely put the question , whether the greek church did follow tradition from father to son in matters of faith , or no ? but do not mention the inference i drew from it , and which is set down in the original paper that was read aloud and approved by both parties , that if the greek church followed tradition , which is undeniably true , and is granted by your self in your answer , then a church holding to tradition as its rule may err in matters of faith , which unavoidably overthrows your pretended demonstration . for you cannot make an evasion , by saying , that though the greek church once adhered to tradition , yet in the time of arianism it left that rule and took up another , and so ever since fell into errour as the calvinists did ; for that is apparently false as to the present greek church ( of which i spake ) as is known to every one that knows any thing of the greek church , which in all its differences with the roman church as to the procession of the holy ghost , the pope's supremacy , purgatory , &c. still pleaded tradition and adhered to it . neither is so much of your answer true , as that even the arians went off from the rule of tradition , for they insisted on it , and petavius thinks they had good reason for it . but however i said my instance was not about them , but the present greek church , and this i do affirm , you gave no answer at all to . i know what arts have been used to get mr. t. to approve your copy : i have not seen what he wrote , and i desired him to bring the gentleman to me who wrote for you , that we might compare ours together , but word was left with my servant , that he was not well . but suppose he should now correct his copy , this will be too late for my vindication , since so many imperfect ones have been given out and dispersed , not onely here in town , but over several parts of the nation . and therefore i am 〈◊〉 to take this way to put a stop to such dis 〈…〉 ceeding . i hear mr. m. pretends that i gave but false copies , which is so far from being true , that i was often solicited on the account of your papers , before i let one be seen , and then it was onely to correct the errours of yours . and mine was taken by a person of learning as well as integrity , who was present at the whole conference and very well understood the whole matter . but because your writer's copy was not then read , and none signed , i desire you now to make good these two things , which the whole conference depended upon . ( . ) that we have no absolute certainty as to the rule of our faith , viz. the scripture ; although we have a larger and firmer tradition for it , viz. the consent of all christian churches , than you can have for the points of faith in difference between us . ( . ) that the tradition from father to son is an infallible conveyance of matters of faith , notwithstanding the greek church is charged by you with errour , which adhered to tradition . if you give a satisfactory account of these two things , you will acquit your self much better than by boasting in coffee-houses , and dispersing such copies of conferences . if you decline giving an answer to this just and necessary vindication of my self , the world will easily see on whose side the victory lay ; but i confess i did not think it worth boasting of . if you are really such a man at controversie , as i hear you would be taken for , i offer you a fair opportunity to shew your self : and i do promise by god's assistance to return an answer to you in such a manner , as will be least liable to the injury of false copies . i am , sir , your humble servant , e. s. march . / . the end . twelve sermons preached on several occasions. the first volume by the right reverend father in god edward lord bishop of worcester. sermons. selections stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) twelve sermons preached on several occasions. the first volume by the right reverend father in god edward lord bishop of worcester. sermons. selections stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], , [ ] p., [ ] leaf of plates : port. printed by j.h. for henry mortlock ..., london : . a second volume was published in with title: ten sermons preached on several occasions; a third volume in with title: thirteen sermons preached on several occasions; and a fourth volume in with title: twelve sermons preached on several occasions. errata: p. [ ] at end. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the right reverend edw. stilling fleet d.d. lord bishop of worcester . twelve sermons preached on several occasions . by the right reverend father in god edward lord bishop of worcester . the first volume . london , printed by i. h. for henry mortlock , at the phoenix in st. pauls church-yard , . the contents . a sermon i. amos iv. . i have overthrown some of you , as god overthrew sodom and gomorrah , and ye were as a fire-brand plukt out of the burning : yet have ye not returned unto me , saith the lord. page sermon ii. prov. xiv . . fools make a mock at sin . p. sermon iii. luke vii . . but wisdom is justified of all her children . p. sermon iv. rom. i. . for i am not ashamed of the gospel of christ ; for it is the power of god unto salvation to every one that believes , to the jew first , and also to the greek . p. sermon v. heb. ii. . how shall we escape , if we neglect so great salvation ? p. sermon vi. heb. xii . . for , consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself , lest ye be weary , and faint in your minds . p. sermon vii . jude , v. . and perished in the gainsaying of corah . p. sermon viii . matth. xxi . . therefore say i unto you , the kingdom of god shall be taken from you , and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof . p. sermon ix . john vii . . but this spake he of the spirit , which they that believe on him should receive : for the holy ghost was not yet given , because that iesus was not yet glorified . p. sermon x. isa. lvii . . there is no peace , saith my god , to the wicked . p. sermon xi . corinth . v. . knowing therefore the terrour of the lord , we perswade men . p. sermon xii . matth. xvi . . for what is a man profited , if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul ? or what shall he give in exchange for his soul ? p. advertisement . there will speedily be published , a second volume of sermons by the same author . sermon i. preached at st. margarets westminster , before the honourable house of commons . octob. . . amos iv. xi . i have overthrown some of you , as god overthrew sodom and gomorrah , and ye were as a fire-brand pluckt out of the burning : yet have ye not returned unto me , saith the lord. it is but a very little time since you met together in this place to lament the remainders of a raging pestilence , which the last year destroyed so many thousand inhabitants of the late great and famous city : and now god hath given us another sad occasion for our fasting and humiliation , by suffering a devouring fire to break forth and consume so many of her habitations . as though the infected air had been too kind and partial , and like saul to the amalekites , had only destroyed the vile and refuse , and spared the greatest of the people ; as though the grave had surfeited with the bodies of the dead , and were loth to go in the execution of god's displeasure ; he hath imployed a more furious element , which by its merciless and devouring flames might in a more lively manner represent unto us the kindling of his wrath against us . and that by a fire , which began with that violence , and spread with that horror , and raged with that fury , and continued for so long a time with that irre●●stible force ; that it might justly fill the beholders with confusion , the hearers of it with amazement , and all of us with a deep and humble sense of those sins which have brought down the judgments of god in so severe a manner in the midst of us . for whatever arguments or reasons we can imagine that should compose the minds of men to a sense of their own or others calamities , or excite them to an apprehension of the wrath of god as the cause of them , or quicken them to an earnest supplication to him for mercy , they do all eminently concurr in the sad occasion of this days solemnity . for if either compassion would move , or fear awaken , or interest engage us to any of these , it is hard to conceive there should be an instance of a more efficacious nature , than that is which we this day bewail : for who can behold the ruins of so great a city , and not have his bowels of compassion moved towards it ? who can have any sence of the anger of god discovered in it , and not have his fear awakened by it ? who can ( as we ought all ) look upon it as a judgment of universal influence on the whole nation , and not think himself concerned to implo●e the mercy of heaven towards us ? for certainly , howsoever we may vainly flatter and deceive our selves , these are no common indications of the frowns of heaven ; nor are they meerly intended as the expressions of god's severity towards that city which hath suffered so much by them ; but the stroaks which fall upon the head ( though they light upon that only ) are designed for the punishment of the whole body . were there nothing else but a bare permission of divine providence as to these things , we could not reasonably think , but that god must needs be very angry with us , when he suffers two such dreadful calamities to ●read almost upon each others heels ; that no sooner had death taken away such multitudes of our inhabitants , but a fire ●ollows it to consume our habitations . a fire , so dreadful in its appearance , in its rage and fury , and in all the dismal consequences of it ( which we cannot yet be sufficiently apprehensive of ) that on that very account we may justly (a) lie down in our shame , and our confusio● cover us : because god hath covered the daughter of sion with a cloud in his anger , and cast down from heaven to earth the beauty of israel , and remembred not his footstool in the day of his anger . for such was the violence and fury of the flames , that they have not only defaced the beauty of the city , and humbled the pride and grandeur of it ; not only stained its glory , and consumed its palaces ; but have made the houses of god themselves a heap of ruins , and a spectacle of desolation . and what then can we propose to our selves as arguments of god's severe displeasure against us , which we have not either already felt , or have just cause to fear are coming upon us without a speedy and sincere amendment ? if a sword abroad and pestilence at home , if fire in our houses and death in our streets , if foreign wars and domestick factions , if a languishing state and a discontented people , if the ruines of the city and poverty of the country , may make us sensible how sad our condition at present is , how much worse it may be ( if god in his mercy prevent it not ) we shall a●l surely think we have reason enough this day to lay to heart the evil of our doings which have brought all these things upon us , and abhor our selves , repenting in dust and ashes . that would seem indeed to bear some analogy with the present ruines of the city , and the calamities we lie under at this time ; but god will more easily dispense with the pompous shews , and solemn garbs of our humiliation ; if our hearts bleed within ●or our ●ormer impietie● , and our repentance discovers its sincerity , by bringing us to that temper ; that , though we have done iniquity , we will do so no more . that is the true and proper end , which almighty god aims at , in all his judgments : he takes no delight in hurling the world into confusions , and turning cities into ruinous heaps , and making whole countries a desolation : but when he sees it necessary to vindicate the honour of his justice to the world , he doth it with that severity that may make us apprehend his displeasure , and yet with that mercy which may incourage us to repent and return unto the lord. thus we find in the instances recorded in the text , when some cities were consumed by him ; so that as far as concerned them , they were made like to sodom and gomorrah : yet he doth it with that kindness to the inhabitants , that they are pluckt as firebrands out of the burning : and therefore he looks upon it as a ●rustrating the design both of his iustice , and of his mercy , when he is sain to conclude with that sad reflection on their incorrigibleness ; yet have ye not returned unto me saith the lord. thus ye see what the design and scope of the words is , which i have read unto you , wherein we may consider , . the severity of the judgment which god was pleased to execute upon them . i have overthrown some of you , as god overthrew sodom and gomorrah . . the mixture of his mercy in the midst of his severity , and ye were as a fire-brand pluckt out of the burning . . the incorrigibleness of the people notwithstanding both . yet have ye not , &c. in the first we have god●s rod li●ted up to strike , in the second we have gods hand stretched out to save , yet neither of these would make them sensible of their disobedience ; though their cities were overthrown for their sakes , though they themselves escaped not for their own sakes , but for his mercies sake only whom they had so highly provoked ; yet have ye not returned unto me , saith the lord. i am sure i may say of the two former parts of the text. as our saviour doth in another case ▪ this day hath this scripture been fulfilled among you : we have seen a sad instance of god's severity , a city almost wholly consumed as sodom and gomorrah , and a great expression of his kindn●ss , the inhabitants saved , as firebrands pluckt out of the burning : o let it never be said that the l●st part of the words is ●ulfill●d too , yet have ye not returned unto me , &c. which , that it may not be , i shall first con●●der the severity of god in his judgment ●h●s day and then discover the mixture of his kindness with it , and the r●sult of both will ●e t●e unreasonableness of obstinate disobedience after them . . the severity of the judgment here expressed : which , though we take it not in reference to the persons of men , but to the cities wherein they dwelt : as it seems to be understood not only by the original wherein the words relating to persons are left out ; but by the ●ollowing cl●use , expressing their preservation : yet we shall ●ind the judgment to be severe enough , in regard , . of the nature and kind of it . . the series and order of it . . the causes moving to it . . the author of it . i have overthrown some of you , as god overthrew , &c. . the nature and kind of it : we can imagine nothing more severe when we consider what it is set forth by , the most unparrallel'd judgment we read of , viz. the destruction of sodom and gomorrah by a fire from heaven . although in all circumstances the instance might not come up to the parallel , yet in several respects there might be so sad a desolation , that any other example but that might fall beneath the greatness and severity of it . and we may better understand of how sad and dreadful a nature such a judgment must be , if we consider it with relation to the suddenness and unexpectedness of it , to the force and violence of it , and to all that sad train of circumstances which attend and follow it . . the suddenness and unexpectedness of it ; as god overthrew sodom and gomorrah , i. e. when they least of all looked for such a desolation . for thus it was in the days of lot ( as our saviour tells us ) (a) they did eat , they drank , they bought , they sold , they planted , they builded ; but the same day that lot went out of sodom , it rained fire and brimstone from heaven , and destroyed them all . they were all immersed either in their pleasures or in their business , they little thought of destruction being so near them as it proved to be : thus it was with the iews in their first and latter destruction both of their city and country , they were as high and as confident of the contrary , as might be to the very last ; nothing could perswade them that their temple or their city should be burnt with fire ; till they saw them flaming before their eyes . thus iosephus observes of his countrymen , that in the midst of all their miseries they had no kind of sense at all of their sins , but were as proud , presumptuous and arrogant , as if all things went well with them ; and were like to do so . they thought god could not possibly punish such a people as they were in such a manner ; they could easily have believed it of any other people but themselves : but that god should punish his own people in covenant with him , that judgment should begin at the house of god , that they who had loved to be called by his name , should be made examples to all other nations ; this seemed so harsh and incredible that by no means could they entertain it . but god and wise men too thought otherwise of them than they did of themselves : they could not but see an outward shew of religion joyned with a deep and subtil hypocrisie ; there being among them an heap of pride and luxury , of fraud and injustice , of sedition and faction gilded over with a fair shew of greater zeal for god and his glory : which that impartial historian ( as one who knew them well ) hath described at large : and although they could not believe that such heavy judgments should befall them , yet others did not only believe , but tremble at the apprehensions of them . who among all the citizens of london could have been perswaded , but the day before the fire brake out , nay when they saw the flames for near a day together , that ever in four days time , not a fourth part of the city should be left standing ? for when were they ever more secure and inapprehensive of their danger than at this time ? they had not been long returned to their houses , which the plague had driven them from , and now they hoped to make some amends for the loss of their trade before ; but they returned home with the same sins they carried away with them ; like new moons , they had a new ●ace and appearance , but the same spots remained still : or it may be , increased by that scumm they had gathered in the countries where they had been . like beasts of prey that had been chained up so long till they were hunger-bitten , when they once got loose they ran with that violence and greediness to their ways of gain , as though nothing could ever satisfie them . but that which betrayed them to so much security , was their late deliverance from so sweeping a judgment as the plague had been to the city and suburbs of it : they could by no means think , when they had all so lately escaped the grave , that the city it sel● should be so near being buried in its own ruines ; that the fire which had missed their blood , should seize upon their houses ; that there should be no other way to purge the infected air , but by the flames of the whole city . thus when the mariners have newly escaped a wreck at sea , the fears of which have a long time deprived them of their wonted rest , they think they may securely lye down and sleep , till it may be another storm overtake and sink them . we see then there is neither piety nor wisdom in so much security when a great danger is over , ●or for we know not but that very security it self may provoke god to send a greater . and no kind of judgments are so dreadful and amazing , as those which come most unexpectedly upon men ; for these betray the succours which reason offers , they infatuate mens councils , weaken their courage , and deprive them of that presence of mind which is necessary at such a time for their own and the publick interest . and there needs no more to let us know how severe such a judgment must be , when it comes upon men in so sudden and unexpected a manner ; but that is not all , for the severiry of it lies further , . in the force and violence of it : and surely that was very great which consumed four cities to nothing in so short a time , when god did pluere gehennam de coelo , as one expresses it , rained down hell-fire upon sodom and gomorrah . and this is that which some think is called the (a) vengeance of eternal fire , which all those in sodom and gomorrah are said to suffer ; i. e. a fire which comsumed , till there was nothing left to be consumed by it . not but that those wicked persons did justly suffer the vengeance of an eternal fire in another life , but the apostle seems to set out and paint forth to us that in the life to come , by the force and violence of that fire which destroyed those cities ; and it would be harsh to say , that all who were involved in that common calamity ( who yet were innocent as to the great abominations of those places , viz. the infants there destroyed ) must be immediately sentenced to eternal misery . but although god since that perpetual monument of his justice in the destruction of those cities hath not by such an immediate fire from heaven consumed and razed out the very foundations of other cities ; yet at sometimes there are fires which break out and rage with a more than ordinary violence , and will not yield to those attempts for quenching them , which at other times may be attended with great success . such might that great fire in rome be in nero's time , which whether begun casually , or by design ( which was disputed then , as it hath been about others since ) did presently spread it self with greater speed over the cirque ( as the (a) historian tells us ) than the wind it self , and never left burning , till of fourteen regions in rome , but ●our were left entire . such might that be in the emperor titus his time , which lasted three days and nights , and was so irresistible in its fury , that the historian tells us , it was certainly more than an ordinary fire . such might that be in the same city in the time of commodus , which though all the art and industry imaginable were used for the quenching it , yet it burnt , till it had consumed besides the temple of peace , the fairest houses and palaces of the city , which on that account , the historians attribute to more than natural causes . such might that be ( which comes the nearest of any i have met with , to that fire we this day lament the effec●s of ) i mean that at constantinople , which happened (b) a. d. . in the beginning of september ; it brake forth by the water side , and raged with that horrible fury for four days together , that it burnt down the greatest part of the city , and was so little capable of resistance that as (a) evagrius tells us , the strongest houses were but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , like so much dryed stubble before it ; by which means the whole city was , as he calls it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a most miserable and dolefull spectacle ; so that as (b) baronius expresses it , that city which before was accounted the wonder of the world , was made like unto sodom and gomorrah . such likewise might those two great fires have been which have formerly burnt down great part of the then city of london ; but neither of them come near to the dreadfulness of this , considering how much bigger the habitations of the city were now , and how much greater the riches of it than could be imagined at those times . how great must we conceive the force of this fire to have been , which having at first gotten a head where there was little means of resisting it , and much fuel to increase it ; from thence it spread it self both with and against the wind ; till it had ga●ned so considerable a force , that it despised all the resistance could be made by the strength of the buildings which stood in its way ; and when it had once subdued the strongest and the tallest of them , it then roared like the waves of the sea , and made its way through all the lesser obstacles , and might have gone on so far , till it had laid this city level with the ruins of the other , had not he who sets the bounds to the ocean , and saith , thus far shalt thou go and no farther , put a stop to it in those places which were as ready to have yielded up themselves to the rage of it , as any which had been consumed before . . the severity of it will yet more appear from all the dreadfull circumstances which attend and follow it . could you suppose your selves in the midst of those cities which were consumed by fire from heaven , when it had seized upon their dwellings , o what cries and lamentations , what yellings and shriekings might ye then have heard among them ! we may well think how dreadfull those were , when we do but consider how sad the circumstances were of the fire we mourn for this day . when it began like sampson to break in pieces all the means of resisting it , and carried before it not only the gates , but the churches and most magnificent structures of the city , what horror and confusion may we then imagine had seized upon the spirits of the citizens ; what destraction in their councils , what paleness in their countenances , what pantings at their hearts , what an universal consternation might have been then seen upon the minds of men ? but o the sighs and tears , the frights and amazements , the miscarriages , nay the deaths of some of the weaker sex at the terror and apprehension of it ! o the hurry and useless pains , the alarms and tumults , the mutual hinderances of each other that were among men at the beholding the rage and fury of it ! there we might have seen women weeping for their children , for fear of their being trod down in the press , or lost in the crowd of people , or exposed to the violence of the flames ; husbands more solicitous for the safety of their wives and children , than their own ; the soldiers running to their swords , when there was more need of buckets ; the tradesmen loading their backs with that which had gotten possession of their hearts before . then we might have heard some complaining thus of themselves : o that i had been as carefull of laying up treasures in heaven , as i have been upon earth , i had not been under such fears of losing them as now i am ! if i had served god as faithfully as i have done the world , he would never have left me as now that is like to do . what a fool have i been which have spent all my precious time for the gaining of that which may now be lost in an hours time ! if these flames be so dreadful , what are those which we reserved for them who love the world more than god! if none can come near the heat of this fire , who can dwell with everlasting burnings ! o what madness then will it be to sin any more wilfully against that god who is a consuming fire , infinitely more dreadful than this can be ! farewel then all ye deceitful vanities : now i understand thee and my self better , o bewitching world , than to fix my happiness in thee any more . i will henceforth learn so much wisdom to lay up my treasures there where neither moths can corrupt them , not thieves steal them , nor fire consume them . o how happy would london be , if this were the effect other flames on the minds of all her inhabitants ! she might then rise with a greater glory , and her inward beauty would outshine her outward splendour , let it be as great as we can wish or imagine . but in the mean time who can behold her present ruines , without paying some tears as due to the sadness of the spectacle , and more to the sins which caused them ? if that city were able to speak out of its ruines , what sad complaints would it make of all those impieties which have made her so miserable . if it had not been ( might she say ) for the pride and luxury , the ease and delicacy of some of my inhabitants , the covetousness , the fraud , the injustice of others , the debaucheries of the prophane , the open factions and secret hypocrisie of too many pretending to greater sanctity , my beauty had not been thus turned into ashes , nor my glory into those ruines which make my enemies rejoyce , my friends to mourn , and all stand amazed at the beholding of them . look now upon me , you who so lately admired the greatness of my trade , the riches of my merchants , the number of my people , the conveniency of my churches , the multitude of my streets , and see what desolations sin hath made in the earth . look upon me , and then tell me whether it be nothing to dally with heaven , to make a mock at sin , to slight the judgments of god , and abuse his mercies , and after all the attempts of heaven to reclaim a people from their sins , to remain still the same that ever they were ? was there no way to expiate your guilt but by my misery ? had the leprosie of your sins so fretted in my walls , that there was no cleansing them , but by the flames which consume them ? must i mourn in my dust and ashes for your iniquities , while you are so ready to return to the practice of them ? have i suffered so much by reason of them , and do you think to escape your selves ? can you then look upon my ruines with hearts as hard and unconcerned as the stones which lye in them ? if you have any kindness for me , or for your selves ; if you ever hope to see my breaches repaired , my beauty restored , my glory advanced , look on londons ruines and repent . thus would she bid her inhabitants not weep for her miseries , but for their own sins ; for if never any sorrow was like to her sorrow , it is because never any sins were like to their sins . not as though they were only the sins of the city , which have brought this evil upon her , no , but as far as the judgment reaches , so great hath the compass of the sins been , which have provoked god to make her an example of his justice . and i fear the effects of londons calamity will be felt all the nation over . for , considering the present languishing condition of this nation , it will be no easie matter to recover the blood and spirits which have been lost by this fire . so that whether we consider the sadness of those circumstances which accompained the rage of the fire , or those which respect the present miseries of the city , or the general influence those will have upon the nation , we cannot easily conceive what judgment could in so critical a time have befallen us , which had been more severe for the kind and nature of it , than this hath been . . we consider it in the series and order of it . we see by the text , this comes i● the last place , as a reserve , when nothing else would do any good upon them : it is extrema medicina , as (a) st. hierom , saith , the last attempt that god uses to reclaim a people by , and if these causticks will not do , it is to be feared he looks upon the wounds as incurable . he had sent a famine before , v. . a drought , v. , . blasting and mildew , v. . the pestilence after the manner of aegypt , v. . the miseries of war , in the same verse . and when none of these would work that effect upon them , which they were designed for , then he comes to this last way of punishing before a final destruction , he overthrew some of their cities as he had overthrown sodom and gomorrah . god forbid , we should be so near a final subversion , and utter desolation , as the ●en tribes were , when none of these things would bring them to repentance ; but yet the method god hath used with us seems to bode very ill in case we do not at last return to the lord. for it is not only agreeable to what is here delivered as the course god used to reclaim the israelites , but to what is ●eported by the most faithful historian of those times of the degrees and steps that god made before the ruines of the british nation . for (a) gildas tells us the decay of it began by civil wars among themselves , and high discontents remaining as the consequents of them ; after this an universal decay and poverty among them ; after that , nay during the continuance of it , wars with the picts and scots their inveterate enemies ; but no sooner had they a little breathing space , but they return to their luxury and other sins again ; then god sends among them a consuming pestilence , which destroyed an incredible number of people . when all this would not do , those whom they trusted most to , betrayed them , and rebelled against them , by whose means , not only the cities were burnt with fire , but the whole island was turned almost into one continued flame . the issue of all which at last was , that their country was turned to a desolation , the ancient inhabitants driven out , or destroyed , and their former servants , but now their bitter enemies , possessing their habitations . may god avert the omen from us at this day . we have smarted by civil wars , and the dreadful effects of them ; we yet complain of great discontents and poverty as great as them , we have inveterate enemies combined abroad against us , we have very lately suffered under a pestilence as great almost as any we read of , and now the great city of our nation burnt down by a dreadful fire . and what do all these things mean ? and what will the issue of them be ? though that be lockt up in the councils of heaven , yet we have just cause to fear , if it be not our speedy amendment , it may be our ruine . and they who think that incredible , let them tell me whether two years since , they did not think it altogether as improbable , that in the compass of the two succeeding years , above a hundred thousand persons should be destroyed by the plague in london and other places , and the city it self should be burnt to the ground ? and if our fears do not , i am sure our sins may tell us , that these are but the fore-runners of greater calamities , in case there be not a timely reformation of our selves . and although god may give us some intermissions of punishments , yet at last he may , as the roman consul expressed it , pay us intercalatoe poenoe usuram , that which may make amends for all his abatements , and give us full measure according to that of our sins , pressed down , shaken together , and running over . which leads to the third particular . . the causes moving god to so much severity in his iudgements , which are the greatness of the sins committed against him . so this prophet tells us , that the true account of all gods punishments is to be fetched from the sins of the people , amos . . for three transgressions of damascus , and for four i will not turn away the punishment thereof : so it is said of gaza , v. . of tyrus , v. . of edom , v. . of ammon , v. . moab , ch . . . iudah , v. . and at last israel , v. . and it is observable of every one of these , that when god threatens to punish them for the greatness of their iniquities , and the multitude of their transgression , ( which is generally supposed to be meant by the three transgressions and the four ) he doth particularly threaten to send a fire among them to consume the houses and the palaces of their cities . so to damascus , chap. . . to gaza , v. . to tyrus , v. . to edom , v. . to ammon , v. . to moab , ch . . v. . to iudah , v. . i will send a fire upon judah , and it shall devour the palaces of jerusalem : and israel in the words of the text . this is a judgment then , which when it comes in its fury , gives us notice to how great a height our sins are risen : especially when it hath so many dreadful forerunners , as it had in israel , and hath had among our selves . when the red horse hath marched furiously before it all bloody with the effects of a civil war , and the pale horse hath followed after the other with death upon his back , and the grave at his heels , and after both these , those come , out of whose mouth issues fire , and smoak , and brimstone , it is then time for the inhabitants of the earth , to repent of the work of their hands . but it is our great unhappiness , that we are apt to impute these great calamities to any thing rather than to our sins ; and thereby we hinder our selves from the true remedy , because we will not understand the cause of our distemper . though god hath not sent prophets among us , to tell us for such and such sins , i will send such and such judgments upon you , yet where we observe the parallel between the sins and the punishments agreeable with what we find recorded in scripture , we have reason to say , that those sins were not only the antecedents , but the causes of those punishments which followed after them . and that because the reason of punishment was not built upon any particular relation between god and the people of israel , but upon reasons common to all mankind : yet with this difference , that the greater the mercies were which any people enjoyed , the sooner was the measure of their iniquities filled up , and the severer were the judgements when they came upon them . this our prophet gives an account of , chap. . . you only have i known of all the nations of the earth , therefore will i punish you for your iniquities . so did god punish tyre and damascus , as well as israel and iudah ; but his meaning is , he would punish them sooner , he would punish them more severely . i wish we could be brought once to consider what influence piety and vertue hath upon the good of a nation , if we did , we should not only live better our selves , but our kingdom and nation might flourish more than otherwise we are like to see it do . which is a truth hath been so universally received among the wise men of all ages , that one of the roman historians , though of no very severe life himself , yet imputes the decay of the roman state , not to chance or fortune , or some unhidden causes ( which the atheism of our age would presently do ) but to the general looseness of mens lives , and corruption of their manners . and it was the grave observation of one of the bravest (a) captains ever the roman state had , that it was impossible for any state to be happy , stantibus moenibus , ruentibus moribus , though their walls were firm , if their manners were decayed . but it is our misery , that our walls and our manners are fallen together , or rather the latter undermined the former . they are our sins which have drawn so much of our blood , and infected our air , and added the greatest fuel to our flames . but it is not enough in general to declaim against our sins , but we must search out particularly those predominant vices , which by their boldness and frequency have provoked god thus to punish us ; and as we have hitherto observed a parallel between the iudgments of israel in this chapter , and our own : so i am afraid we shall find too sad a parallel between their sins and ours too . three sorts of sins are here spoken of in a peculiar manner , as the causes of their severe punishments : their luxury and intemperance , their covetousness and oppression , and their contempt of god and his laws , and i doubt we need not make a very exact scrutiny to find out these in a high degree among our selves : and i wish it were as easie to reform them , as to find them out . . luxury and intemperance ; that we meet with in the first verse , both in the compellation , ye kine of bashan , and in their behaviour , which say to their masters , bring and let us drink . ye kine of bashan , loquitur ad principes israel & optimates quosque decem tribuum , saith st. hierom , he speaks to the princes of israel , and the chief of all the ten tribes ; those which are sed in the richest pastures , such as those of bashan were . who are more fully described by the prophet in this sixth chapter . they are the men who are at ease in sion , v. . they put far away from them the evil day , v. . they lye upon beds of ivory , and stretch themselves upon their couches , and eat the lambs out of the stock , and the calves out of the midst of the stall , v. . they chaunt to the sound of the viol , and invent to themselves instruments of musick like david , v. . they drink wine in bowls , and anoint themselves with the chief oyntments , but they are not grieved for the affliction of joseph . the meaning of all which is , they minded nothing but ease , softness , and pleasure , but could not endure to hear of the calamities which were so near them . nothing but mirth , and jollity , and riot , and feasting , and evil consequences of these were to be seen or heard among them . their delicate souls were presently rufled and disturbed at the discourse of any thing but matters of courtship , address and entertainment . any thing that was grave and serious , though never so necessary , and of the greatest importance , was put off , as felix put off st. paul , to a more convenient time : especially if it threatned miseries to them , and appeared with a countenance sadder than their own . these were the kine of bashan , who were full of ease and wantonness , and never thought of the day of slaughter , which the other were the certain fore-runner of . symmachus renders it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which others apply to the rich citizens of samaria ; i am afraid we may take it in either sense without a soloecism . bring and let us drink , which as st. hierom goes on , ebrietatem significat in vino & luxuria quoe statum mentis evertunt , it implies the height of their luxury and intemperance . it is observed by some , that our prophet retains still the language of his education in the bluntness of his expressions , the great men that lived wholly at their ease , in wantonness and luxury , he styles like the heardsman of tekoa , the kine of bashan . that he thought was title good enough for such who seemed to have souls for no other end , than the other had . and hath not that delicata insania , as st austin calls it , that soft and effeminate kind of madness taken possession of too many among us , whose birth and education designed them for more manly imployments ? yea , what an age of luxury do we live in , when instead of those noble characters of men from their vertue , and wisdom , and courage , it is looked on among some as a mighty character of a person , that he eats and drinks well : a character that becomes none so much as the kine of bashan in the literal sense , for surely they did so , or else they had never been in so great esteem among the heardsmen of tekoa . a character which those philosopher ; would have been ashamed of , who looked upon no other end of humane life but pleasure ; but in order to that , they thought nothing more necessary than temperance and sobriety ; but whatever esteem they had then , they have lost all their reputation among our modern epicures , who know of no such things as pleasures of the mind , and would not much value whether they had any faculties of the mind or no , unless it were for the contrivance of new oaths and debaucheries . but if this were only among some few persons , we hope the whole nation would not suffer for their madness : for scarce any age hath been so happy , but it hath had some monsters in morality as well as nature . but i am afraid these vices are grown too epidemical ; not only in the city , but the countries too ; what mean else those frequent complaints ( and i hope more general than the causes of them ) that the houses of great men in too many places are so near being publick schools of debauchery , rather than of piety and vertue , where men shall not want instructers to teach them to forget both god and themselves ; wherein sobriety is so far from being accounted a matter of honour , that the rules of the persian civility are quite forgotten , and men are forced to unman themselves . i know nothing would tend more to the honour of our nation , or the advantage of it , than if once these publick excesses were severely restrained , i do not mean so much by making new laws , ( for those generally do but exercise peoples wits by finding out new evasions ) but by excecuting old ones . . covetousness and oppression . you see what these great men in samaria did when they had any respite from their excesses and intemperance , then woe be to the poor who come in their way ; which oppress the poor , and crush the needy : v. . either by the hands of violence , or by those arts and devices which either their honesty or poverty have kept them from the knowledge of . and if there be not so much of open violence in our daies , the thanks are due to the care of our magistrates , and the severity of our laws , but it is hard to say whether ever any age produced more studious and skilful to pervert the design of laws , without breaking the letter of them , than this of ours hath done . fraud and injustice is now managed with a great deal of artifice and cunning ; and he thinks himself no body in the understanding of the world , that cannot overreach his brother , and not be discovered : or however in the multiplicity and obscurity of our laws cannot find out something in pretence at least to justifie his actions by . but i● appeal be made to the court of iudicature , what arts are then used either for concealing or hiring witnesses , so that if their purses be not equal , the adverse party may overswear him by so much as his purse is weightier than the others . i heartily wish it may never be said of us , what the orator once said of the greeks , (a) quibus jusjurandum jocus , testimonium ludus , they made it a matter of jest and drollery to forswear themselves , and give false testimonies . but supposing men keep within the bounds of justice and common honesty , yet how unsatiable are the desires of men ! they are for adding house to house , and land to land never contented with what either their ancestors have left them , or the bountiful hand of heaven hath bestowed upon them . till at last it may be in the prophets expression for their covetousness , (b) the stone cry out of the wall , and the beam out of the timber answer it ; i. e. provoke god to give a severe check to the exorbitant and boundless desire of men , as he hath done by this days calamity . thus while the city thought with (a) babylon to sit as a lady for ever , while she dwelt carelesly , and said i am , and there is none else beside me ; evil is come upon her , and she knows not from whence it comes , and mischief is ●allen upon her , and she hath not been able to put it off , and desolation is come upon her suddenly , which she did not foresee . . contempt of god and his laws . that we read of v. . where the prophet speaks by an irony to them , come to bethel and transgress , &c. he knew well enough they were resolved to do it , let god or the prophet say what they pleased . for these kine of bashan were all ●or the calves of dan and bethel , and some think that is the reason of the title that is given them . these great men of samaria thought it beneath them to o●n religion any further than it was subservient to their civil interests . they were all of ieroboams religion , who looked on it as a mear politick thing , and sit to advance his own designs by . i am afraid there are too many at this day who are secretly of his mind , and think it a piece of wisdom to be so : blessed god , that men should be so wise to deceive themselves , and go down with so much discretion to hell ! these are the grave and retired atheists , who , though they secretly love not religion , yet their caution hinders them from talking much against it . but there is a sort of men much more common than the other ; the faculties of whose minds are so thin and aiery , that they will not bear the consideration of any thing , much less of religion ; these throw out their bitter sco●fs , and prophane jests against it . a thing never permitted that i know of in any civilized nation in the world ; whatsoever their religion was , the reputation of religion was always preserved sacred : god himself ( saith iosephus ) would not suffer the iews to speak evil of other gods , though they were to destroy all those who tempted them to the worship of them . and shall we suffer the most excellent and reasonable religion in the world , viz. the christian , to be prophaned by the unhallowed mouths of any who will venture to be damned , to be accounted witty ? if their enquiries were deeper , their reason stronger , or their arguments more perswasive , than of those who have made it their utmost care and business to search into these things , they ought to be allowed a fair hearing ; bu● for men who pretend to none of these things , yet still to make religion the object of their sco●fs and raillery , doth not become the gravity of a nation professing wisdom to permit it , much less the sobriety of a people professing christianity . in the mean time such persons may know , that wise men may be argued out of a religion they own , but none but fools and madmen will be droll'd out of it . let them first try whether they can laugh men out of their estates , before they attempt to do it out of their hopes of an eternal happiness . and i am sure it will be no comfort to them in another world , that they were accounted wits for deriding those miseries which they then feel and smart under the severity of : it will be no mitigation of their flames that they go laughing into them ; nor will they endure them the better because they would not believe them . but while this is so prevailing a humour among the vain men of this age and nation , what can we expect but that god should be remarkable , and severe judgements seek to make men more serious in religion ; or else make their hearts to ake , and the●r joints to tremble , as he did belshazzars , when he could find nothing else to carouse in but the vessels of the temple . and when men said in the prophet zephany , chap. . . that god neither did good nor evil , presently it follows , (a) therefore their goods shall become a booty , and their houses a desolation : the day of the lord is near , a day of wrath , a day of trouble and distress , a day of wastness and desolation ; as it is with us at this time . thus we see how sad the parallel hath been not only in the judgments of isreal , but in the sins likewise which have made those judgments so severe . . the severity of the judgment appears not only from the causes , but ●rom the author of it . i have overthrown some of you as god overthrew sodom and gomorrah . god challenges the execution of his justice to himself , not only in the great day , but in his judgment here in the world . (a) shall there be evil in a city and the lord hath not done it ? when god is pleased to punish men for their sins , the excution of his justice is agreeable to his nature now , as it will be at the end of the world . we all know that he may do it if he please , and he hath told us , that he doth and will do it ; and we know withal , that without such remarkable severities , the world will hardly be kept in any awe of him . we do not ●ind that love doth so much in the world as fear doth , there being so very few persons of tractable and ingenuous spirits . it is true of too many , what (a) lactantius ob●erves of the romans , nunquam dei meminerunt , nisi dum in malis sunt , they seldom think of god , but when they are afraid of him . and there is not only this reason as to particular persons why god should punish them , but there is a greater as to communities , and bodies of men ; for although god suffers wicked men to escape punishment here , as he often doth , yet he is sure not to do it in the life to come ; but communities of men can never be punished but in this world ; and therefore the justice o● god doth often discover it self in these common calamities , to keep the world in subjection to him , and to let men see that neither the multitude of their associates , nor the depth of their designs , nor the subtilty of their councils can secure them from the omnipotent arm of divine justice , when he hath determined to visit their transgressions with rods , and their iniquities with stripes . but when he doth all this , yet his loving kindness doth he not utterly take from them : for in the midst of all his judgements he is pleased to remember mercy ; of which we have a remarkable instance in the text , for when god was overthrowing cities , yet he pluckt the inhabitants as fire brands out of the burning : and so i come from the severity of god ▪ . to the mixture or his mercy in it . and ye were as a fire brand pluckt out of the burning . that notes two things , the nearness they were in to the danger , and the unexpectedness of their deliverance out of it . . the nearness they were in to the danger , quasi torris , cujus jam magna pars absumpta est , as some paraphrase it ; like a brand , the greatest part of which is already consumed by fire ; which shews the difficulty of their escaping . so ioshua is said to be a brand pluckt out of the ●ire , zech. . . and to this st. hierom upon this place , applies that difficult passage , cor. . . they shall be saved , but so as by fire , noting the greatness of the danger they were in , and how hardly they should escape . and are not a●l the inhabitants of this city , and all of us in the suburbs of the other , whose houses escaped so near the flames , as firebrands pluckt out of the burning ? when the fire came on in its rage and fury , as though it would in a short time have devoured all before it , that not only this whole city , but so great a part of the suburbs of the other should escape ununtouched , is ( all circumstances considered ) a wonderful expression of the kindness o● god to us in the midst of so much severity . if he had suffered the fire to go on to have consumed the remainder of our churches and houses , and laid this city even with the o●her in one continued heap of ruines , we must have said , iust art thou , o lord , and righteous in all thy judgments . we ought rather to have admired his patience in f●aring us so long , than complain of this ●igour of his justice in punishing us at last ; but in●●ead of that he hath given us occasion this day , with the three children in the fiery furnace , to praise him in the midst of the flames . for even the inhabitants of london themselves who have suffered most in this calamity , have cause to acknowledge the mercy of god towards them , that they are escaped themselves ; though it be ( as the iews report of ioshua the high-●riest , when thrown into the fire by the chaldeans ) with their cloaths burnt about them . though their habitations be consumed , and their losses otherwise may be too great , yet that in the midst of so much danger by the flames , and the press of people , so very few should suffer the loss of their lives , ought to be owned by them and us as a miraculous providence of god towards them . and therefore not unto us , not unto us , but to his holy name be the praise of so great a preservation in the midst of so heavy a judgment . . the unexpectedness of such a deliverance ; they are not saved by their own skill and counsel , nor by their strength and industry , but by him who by his mighty hand did pluck them as fire brands out of the burning . though we own the justice of god in the calamities of this day , let us not forget his mercy in what he hath unexpectedly rescued from the fury of the flames ; that the royal palaces of our gracious soveraign , the residence of the nobility , the houses of parliament , the courts of iudicature , the place where we are now assembled , and ●everal others of the same nature , with other places and habitations to receive those who were burnt out of their own , stand at this day untouched with the fire ( and long may they continue so ) ought chiefly to be ascribed to the power and goodness of that god , who not only commands the raging of the sea , and the madness of the people , but whom the winds and the flames obey . although enough in a due subordination to divine providence can never be attributed to the mighty care and industry of our most gracious sovereign , and his royal highness , who by their presence and incouragement inspired a new life and vigour into the sinking spirits of the citizens , whereby god was pleased so far to succeed their endeavours , that a stop was put to the fury of the fire in such places where it was as likely to have prevailed , as in any parts of the city consumed by it . o let us not then frustrate the design of so much severity mixed with so great mercy : let it never be said , that neither judgments nor kindness will work upon us : that neither our deliverance from the pestilence which walks in darkness , nor from the flames which shine as the noon-day , will awaken us from that lethargy and security we are in by our sins : but let god take what course he pleases with us , we are the same incorrigible people still that ever we were . for we have cause enough for our mourning and lamentation this day , ( if god had not sent new calamities upon us ) that we were no better for those we had undergone before . we have surfeited with mercies , and grown sick of the kindness of heaven to us , and when god hath made us smart for ou● fulness and wantonness , then we grew sullen and murmured and disputed against providence , and were willing to do any thing but repent of our sins , and reform our lives . it is not many years since god blessed us with great and undeserved blessings , which we then thought our selves very thankful for ; but if we had been really so , we should never have provoked him who bestowed those favours upon us in so great a degree as we have done since . was this our requital to him for restoring our sovereign , to rebel the more against heaven ? was this our thankfulness , for removing the disorders of church and state , to bring them into our lives ? had we no other way of trying the continuance of gods goodness to us , but by exercising his patience by our greater provocations ? as though we had resolved to let the world see , there could be a more unthankful and disobedient people than the iews had been . thus we sinned with as much security and confidence , as though we had blinded the eyes , or bribed the justice , or commanded the power of heaven . when god of a sudden like one highly provoked drew forth the sword of his destroying angel , and by it cut off so many thousands in the midst of us : then we fell upon our knees , and begg'd the mercy of heaven , that our lives might be spared , that we might have time to amend them : but no sooner did our fears abate , but our devotion did so too , we had soon forgotten the promises we made in the day of our distress , and i am afraid it is at this day too true of us which is said in the revelations of those who had escaped the several plagues which so many had been destroyed by . (a) and the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues , yet repented not of the work of their hands . for if we had not greedily suckt in again the poyson we had only laid down while we were begging for our lives , if we had not returned with as great fury and violence as ever to our former lusts , the removing of one judgment had not been as it were only to make way for the coming on of another . for the grave seemed to close up her mouth , and death by degrees to withdraw himself , that the fire might come upon the stage , to act its part too in the tragedy our sins have made among us : and i pray god this may be the last act of it . let us not then provoke god to find out new methods of vengeance , and make experiments upon us of what other unheard of severities may do for our cure . but let us rather meet god now by our repentance , and returning to him , by our serious humiliation for our former sins , and our stedfast resolutions to return no more to the practice of them . that , that much more dangerous infection of our souls may be cured as well as that of our bodies , that the impure flames which burn within may be extinguished , that all our luxuries may be retrenched , our debaucheries punished , our vanities taken away , our careless indifferency in religion turned into a greater seriousness both in the profession and the practice of it . so will god make us a happy and prosperous , when he finds us a more righteous and holy nation . so will god succeed all your endeavours for the honour and interest of that people whom you represent . so may he add that other title to the rest of those you have deserved for your countries good , to make you repairers of the breaches of the city as well as of the nation , and restorers of paths to dwell in : so may that city which now sits solitary like a widow , have her tears wiped off , and her beauty and comeliness restored unto her . yea , so may her present ruines , in which she now lies buried , be only the fore-runners of a more joyful resurrection . in which , though the body may remain the same , the qualities may be so altered , that its present desolation may be the only putting off its former inconveniences , weakness , and deformities , that it may rise with greater glory , strength and proportion : and to all her other qualities , may that of incorruption be added too , at least till the general conflagration . and i know your great wisdom and iustice will take care , that those who have suffered by the ruines , may not likewise suffer by the rising of it , that the glory of the city may not be laid upon the tears of the orphans and widows , but that its foundations may be setled upon justice and piety . that there be no complaining in the streets for want of righteousness , nor in the city for want of churches , nor in the churches for want of a setled maintenance . that those who attend upon the se●vice or god in them may never be tempted to betray their consciences to gain a livelihood , nor to comply with the factious humours of men , that they may be able to live among them . and thus when the city through the blessing of heaven shall be built again , may it be a habitation of holiness towards god , of loyalty towards our gracious king and his successors , of iustice and righteousness towards men , of sobriety , and peace , and vnity among all the inhabitants , till not cities and countries only , but the world and time it self shall be no more . which god of his infinite mercy grant through the merits and mediation of his son , to whom with the father and eternal spirit , be all honour and glory for evermore . sermon ii. preached before the king , march . . / . prov. xiv . ix . fools make a mock at sin. when god by his infinite wisdom had contrived , and by a power and goodness , as infinite as his wisdom , had perfected the the creation of the visible world , there seemed to be nothing wanting to the glory of it , but a creature endued with reason and understanding , which might comprehend the design of his wisdom , enjoy the benefits of his goodness , and employ it self in the celebration of his power . the beings purely intellectual were too highly raised by their own order and creation , to be the lords of this inferiour world : and those whose natures could reach no higher than the objects of sense , were not capable of discovering the glorious perfections of the great creator : and therefore could not be the fit instruments of his praise and service . but a conjunction of both these together was thought necessary to make up such a sort of being , which might at once command this lower world , and be the servants of him who made it . not as though this great fabrick of the world were merely raised for man to to please his fancy in the contemplation of it , or to exercise his dominion over the creatures designed for his use and service : but that by frequent reflections on the author of his being , and the effects of his power and goodness he might be brought to the greatest love and admiration of him . so that the most natural part of religion lies in the grateful acknowledgements we owe to that excellent and supream being , who hath shewed so particular a kindness to man in the creation and government of the world . which was so great and unexpressible , that some have thought , it was not so much pride and affectation of a greater height , as envy at the felicity and power of mankind , which was the occasion of the fall of the apostate spirits . but whether or no the state of man were occasion enough for the envy of the spirits above ; we are sure the kindness of heaven was so great in it , as could not but lay an indispensable obligation on all mankind to perpetual gratitude and obedience . for it is as easie to suppose , that affronts and injuries are the most suitable returns for the most obliging favours , that the first duty of a child should be to destroy his parents ; that to be thankful for kindnesses received , were to commit the unpardonable sin ; as that man should receive his being and all the the blessings which attend it from god , and not be bound to the most universal obedience to him . and as the reflection on the author of his being , leads him to the acknowledgment of his duty towards god , so the consideration of the design of it , will more easily acquaint him with the nature of that duty which is expected from him . had man been designed only to act a short part here in the world , all that had been required of him , had been only to express his thankfulness to god for his being , and the comforts of it : the using all means for the due preservation of himself ; the doing nothing beneath the dignity of humane nature , nothing injurious to those who were of the same nature with himself ; but since he is designed for greater and nobler ends , and his present state , is but a state of tryal , in order to future happiness and misery ; the reason of good and evil is not to be taken merely from his present , but from the respect , which things have to that eternal state he is designed for . from whence it follows , that the differences of good and evil are rooted in the nature of our beings , and are the necessary consequents of our relation to god , and each other , and our expectations of a future life . and therefore according to these measures , the estimation of men in the world hath been while they did preserve any veneration for god or themselves . wisdom and folly was not measured so much by the subtilty and and curiosity of mens speculations , by the fineness of their thoughts , or the depth of their designs , as by their endeavours to hold up the dignity of mankind ; by their piety and devotion towards god ; by their sobriety and due government of their actions ; by the equality and justice , the charity and kindness of their dealings to one another . wisdom was but another name for goodness , and folly for sin ; then it was a mans glory to be religious ; and to be prophane and vitious , was to be base and mean : then there were no gods worshipped because they were bad , nor any men disgraced because they were good . then there were no temples erected to the meanest passions of humane nature , nor men became idolaters to their own infirmities . then to be betrayed into sin , was accounted weakness ; to contrive it , dishonour and baseness ; to justifie and defend it , infamy and reproach ; to make a mock at it , a mark of the highest folly and incorrigibleness . so the wise man in the words of the text assures us , that they are fools , and those of the highest rank and degree of folly , who make a mock at sin . it is well for us in the age we live in , that we have the judgment of former ages to appeal to , and of those persons in them whose reputation for wisdom is yet unquestionable . for otherwise we might be born down by that spightful enemy to all vertue and goodness , the impudence of such , who it is hard to say , whether they shew it more in commiting sin , or in defending it . men whose manners are so bad , that scarce any thing can be imagined worse , unless it be the wit they use to excuse them with . such who take the measure of mans perfections downwards , and the nearer they approach to beasts , the more they think themselves to act like men . no wonder then , if among such as these the differences of good and evil be laughed at , and no sin be thought so unpardonable , as the thinking that there is any at all . nay , the utmost they will allow in the description of sin , is , that it is a thing that some live by declaiming against , and others cannot live without the practice of . but is the chair of scorners at last proved the only chair of infallibility ? must those be the standard of mankind , who seem to have little left of humane nature , but laughter and the shape of men ? do they think that we are all become such fools to take scoffs for arguments , and raillery for demonstrations ? he knows nothing at all of goodness , that knows not that it is much more easie to laugh at it , than to practise it ; and it were worth the while to make a mock at sin , if the doing so would make nothing of it . but the nature of things does not vary with the humours of men ; sin becomes not at all the less dangerous because men have so little wit to think it so ; nor religion the less excellent and adantagious to the world , because the greatest enemies of that are so much to themselves too , that they have learnt to despise it . but although that scorns to be defended by such weapons whereby her enemies assault her , ( nothing more unbecoming the majesty of religion , than to make it self cheap , by making others laugh ) yet if they can but obtain so much of themselves to attend with patience to what is serious , there may be yet a possibility of perswading them , that no fools are so great as those who laugh themselves into misery , and none so certainly do so , as those who make a mock at sin . but if our authority be too mean and contemptible to be relied on , in a matter wherein they think us so much concerned ( and so i hope we are to prevent the ruine of mens souls ) we dare with confidence appeal to the general sense of mankind in the matter of our present debate . let them name but any one person in all the monuments of former ages , to whom but the bare suspicion of vice was not a diminution to an esteem that might otherwise have been great in the world . and if the bare suspicion would do so much among even the more rude and barbarous nations , what would open and professed wickedness do among the more knowing and civil ? humane nature retains an abhorrency of sin , so far that it is impossible for men to have the same esteem of those who are given over to all manner of wickedness , though otherwise of great sharpness of wit , and of such whose natural abilities may not exceed the other , but yet do govern their actions according to the strict rules of religion and vertue . and the general sense of mankind cannot be by any thing better known , than by an universal consent of men , as to the wa●s whereby they express their value and esteem of others . what they all agree on as the best character of a person worthy to be loved and honoured , we may well think is the most agreeable to humane nature ; and what is universally thought a disparagement to the highest accomplishments , ought to be looked on as the disgrace and imperfection of it . did ever any yet , though never so wicked and profane themselves , seriously commend another person for his rudeness and debaucheries ? was any mans lust or intemperance ever reckoned among the titles of his honour ? who ever yet raised trophies to his vices , or thought to perpetuate his memory by the glory of them ? where was it ever known , that sobriety and temperance , justice and charity were thought the marks of reproach and infamy ? who ever suffered in their reputation by being thought to be really good ? nay , it is so far from it , that the most wicked persons do inwardly esteem them whether they will or no. by which we see , that even in this lapsed and degenerate condition of mankind , it is only goodness which gains true honour and esteem , and nothing doth so effectually blast a growing reputation , as wickedness and vice . but if it be thus with the generality of men , who were never yet thought to have too much partiality towards goodness , we may much more easily find it among those , who have had a better ground for the reputation of their wisdom , than the meer vogue of the people . he who was pronounced by the heathen oracle , to be the wisest among the greeks , was the person who brought down philosophy from the obscure and uncertain speculations of nature , and in all his discourses recommended vertue as the truest wisdom . and he among the iews , whose (a) soul was as large as the sand on the sea-shore , whose wisdom out-went that of all the persons of his own or future ages , writes a book on purpose to perswade men , that there is no real wisdom , but to fear god and keep his commandments : that sin is the greatest folly , and the meaner apprehensions men have of it , the more they are infatuated by the temptations to it . but as there are degrees of sinning , so there are of folly in it . some sin with a blushing countenance , and a trembling conscience ; they sin , but yet they are afraid to sin , but in the act of it they condemn themselves for what they do ; they sin , but with confusion in their faces , with horror in their minds , and an earthquake in their consciences : though the condition of such persons be dangerous , and their unquietness shews the greatness of their folly , yet because these twitches of conscience argue there are some quick touches left of the sence of good and evil , their case is not desperate , nor their condition incurable : but there are others who despise these as the reproach of the school of wickedness , because they are not yet attained to those heights of impiety which they glory in : such who have subdued their consciences much easier than others do their sins ; who have almost worn out all the impressions of the work of the law written in their hearts ; who not only make a practice , but a boast of sin , and defend it with as much greediness as they commit it : these are the men , whose folly is manifest to all men but themselves ; and surely , since these are the men , whom solomon in the words of the text describes , ( . ) by their character , as fools , and , ( . ) by the instance of their folly , in making a mock at sin ; we may have not only the liberty to use , but ( . ) to prove , that name of reproach to be due unto them ; and ( . ) to shew the reasonableness of fastning it upon them , because they make a mock at sin . but before i come more closely to pursue that , it will be necessary to consider another sence of these words caused by the ambiguity of the hebrew verb , which sometimes signifies to deride and scorn , sometimes to plead for , and excuse a thing with all the arts of rhetorick ( thence the word for rhetorick is derived from the verb here used ) according to which sense , it notes all the plausible pretences and subtle extenuations which wicked men use in defence of their evil actions . for as if men intended to make some recompence for the folly they betray in the acts of sin , by the wit they employ in the pleading for them , there is nothing they shew more industry and care in , than in endeavouring to baffle their own consciences , and please themselves in their folly , till death and eternal ●lames awaken them . that we may not therefore seem to beg all wicked men for fools , till we have heard what they have to say for themselves , we shall first examine the reasonableness of their fairest pleas for their evil actions , before we make good the particular impeachment of folly against them . there are three ways especially whereby they seek to jus●ifie themselves ; by laying the blame of all their evil actions , either upon the fatal necessity of all events , the unavoidable frailty of humane nature , or the impossibility of keeping the laws of heaven : but that none of these will serve to excuse them from the just imputation of folly , is our present business to discover . . the fatal necessity of all humane actions . those who upon any other terms are unwilling willing enough to own either god or providence , yet if they can but make these serve their turn to justifie their sins by , their quarrel against them then ceaseth , as being much more willing that god should bear the blame of their sins , than themselves . but yet the very fears of a deity suggest so many dreadful thoughts of his majesty , iustice , and power , that they are very well contented to have him wholly left out : and then to suppose man to be a meer engine , that is necessarily moved by such a train and series of causes , that there is no action how bad soever that is done by him , which it was any more possible for him not to have done , than for the fire not to burn when it pleases . if this be true , farewel all the differences of good and evil in mens actions ; farewel all expectations of future rewards and punishments ; religion becomes but a meer name , and righteousness but an art to live by . but it is with this , as it is with the other arguments they use against religion ; there is something within , which checks and controlls them in what they say : and that inward remorse of conscience , which such men sometimes feel in their evil actions ( when conscience is forced to recoil by the foulness of them ) doth effectually confute their own hypothesis ; and makes them not believe those actions to be necessary , for which they suffer so much in themselves because they knew they did them freely . or it is as fatal for man to believe himself free when he is not so , as it is for him to act when his choice is determined ? but what series of causes is there that doth so necessarily impose upon the common sense of all mankind ; it seems very strange , that man should have so little sense of his own interest to be still necessitated to the worst of actions , and yet torment himself with the thoughts that he did them freely . or is it only the freedom of action , and not of choice , that men have an experience of within themselves ? but surely , however men may subtilly dispute of the difference between these two , no man would ever believe himself to be free in what he does , unless he first thought himself to be so , in what he determines ? and if we suppose man to have as great a freedom of choice in all his evil actions ( which is the liberty we are now speaking of ) as any persons assert or contend for , we cannot suppose that he should have a greater experience of it , than now he hath . so that either it is impossible for man to know when his choice is free ; or if it may be known , the constant experience of all evil men in the world will testifie , that it is so now . is it possible for the most intemperate person to believe , when the most pleasing temptations to lust or gluttony are presented to him , that no consideration whatever could restrain his appetite , or keep him from the satisfaction of his brutish inclinations ? will not the sudden , though groundless apprehension of poyson in the cup , make the drunkards heart to ake , and hand to tremble , and to let fall the supposed fatal mixture in the midst of all his jollity and excess ? how often have persons who have designed the greatest mischief to the lives and fortunes of others , when all opportunities have fallen out beyond their expectation for accomplishing their ends , through some sudden thoughts which have surprized them , almost in the very act , been diverted from their intended purposes ? did ever any yet imagine that the charms of beauty and allurements of lust were so irresistible , that if men knew before-hand they should surely dye in the embraces of an adulterous bed , they could not yet withstand the temptations to it ? if then some considerations , which are quite of another nature from all the objects which are presented to him , may quite hinder the force and efficacy of them upon the mind of man ( as we see in ioseph's resisting the importunate caresses of his mistress ) what reason can there be to imagine that man is a meer machine moved only as outward objects determine him ? and if the considerations of present fear and danger may divert men from the practice of evil actions , shall not the far more weighty considerations of eternity have at least an equal , if not a far greater power and efficacy upon mens minds , to keep them from everlasting misery ? is an immortal soul and the eternal happiness of it so mean a thing in our esteem and value , that we will not deny our selves those sensual pleasures for the sake of that which we would renounce for some present danger ? are the flames of another world such painted fires , that they deserve only to be laughed at , and not seriously considered by us ? fond man ! art thou only free to ruine and destroy thy self ? a strange fatality indeed , when nothing but what is mean and trivial shall determine thy choice ! when matters of the highest moment are therefore less regarded , because they are such . hast thou no other plea for thy self , but that thy sins were fatal ? thou hast no reason then to believe but that thy misery shall be so too . but if thou ownest a god and providence , assure thy self that justice and righteousness are not meer titles of his honour , but the real properties of his nature . and he who hath appointed the rewards and punishments of the great day , will then call the sinner to account , not only for all his other sins , but for offering to lay the imputation of them upon himself . for if the greater abhorrency of mens evil ways , the rigour of his laws , the severity of his judgments , the exactness of his justice , the greatest care used to reclaim men from their sins , and the highest assurance , that he is not the cause of their ruine , may be any vindication of the holiness of god now , and his justice in the life to come ; we have the greatest reason to lay the blame of all our evil actions upon our selves , as to attribute the glory of all our good unto himself alone . . the frailty of humane nature : those who find themselves to be free enough to do their souls mischief , and yet continue still in the doing of it , find nothing more ready to plead for themselves , than the unhappiness of mans composition , and the degenerate state of the world . if god had designed ( they are ready to say ) that man should lead a life free from sin , why did he confine the soul of man to a body so apt to taint and pollute it ? but who art thou o man , that thus findest fault with thy maker ? was not his kindness the greater , in not only giving thee a soul capable of enjoying himself , but such an habitation for it here , which by the curiosity of its contrivance , the number and usefulness of its parts , might be a perpetual and domestick testimony of the wisdom of its maker ? was not such a conjunction of soul and body necessary for the exercise of that dominion wh●ch god designed man for , over the creatures endued only with sense and motion ? and if we suppose this life to be a state of tryal in order to a better , ( as in all reason we ought to do ) what can be imagined more proper to such a state , than to have the soul constantly employed in the government of those sensual inclinations which arise from the body ? in the doing of which , the proper exercise of that vertue consists , which is made the condition of future happiness . had it not been for such a composition , the differenc● could never have been seen between good and bad men ; i. e. between those who maintain the empire of reason , assisted by the motives of religion , over all the inferiour faculties , and such who dethrone their souls and make them slaves to every lust that will command them . and if men willingly subject themselves to that which they were born to rule , they have none to blame but themselves for it . neither is it any excuse at all , that this , through the degeneracy of mankind , is grown the common custom of the world ; unless that be in it self so great a tyrant , that there is no resisting the power of it . if god had commanded us to comply with all the customs of the world , and at the same time to be sober , righteous , and good , we must have lived in another age than we live in , to have excused these two commands from a palpable contradiction . but instead of this , he hath forewarned us of the danger of being led aside by the soft and easie compliances of the world ; and if we are sensible of our own infirmities , ( as we have all reason to be ) he hath offered us the assistance of his grace and of that spirit of his , (a) which is greater than the spirit that is in the world. he hath promised us those weapons whereby we may withstand the torrent of wickedness in the world , with far greater success than the old (b) gauls were wont to do in the inundations of their country , whose custom was to be drowned with their arms in their hands . but it will be the greater folly in us to be so , because we have not only sufficient means of resistance , but we understand the danger before-hand . if we once forsake the strict rules of religion and goodness , and are ready to yield our selves to whatever hath got retainers enough to set up for a custom , we may know where we begin , but we cannot where we shall make an end . for every fresh assault makes the breach wider , at which more enemies may come in still ; so that when we find our selves under their power , we are contented for our own ease to call them friends . which is the unhappy consequence of too easie yielding at first , till at last the greatest slavery to sin be accounted but good humour , and a gentile compliance with the fashions of the world . so that when men are perswaded , eith●r through fear , or too great easiness to disuse that strict eye which they had before to their actions , it oft-times falls out with them , as it did with the souldier in the (a) roman history , who blinded his eye so long in the time of the civil wars , that when he would have used it again , he could not . and when custom hath by degrees taken away the sense of sin from their consciences , they grow as hard as (b) herodotus tells us the heads of the old egyptians were by the heat of the sun , that nothing would ever enter them . if men will with nebuchadnezzar herd with the beasts of the field , no wonder if their reas●n departs from them , and by degrees they grow as savage as the company they keep . so powerful a thing is custom to debauch mankind , and so easily do the greatest vices by degrees obtain admission into the souls of men , under pretence of being retainers to the common infirmities of humane nature . which is a phrase , through the power of self-flattery , and mens ignorance in the nature of moral actions , made to be of so large and comprehensive a sense that the most wilful violations of the laws of heaven , and such which the scripture tells us do exclude from the kingdom of it , do find ( rather than make ) friends enough to shelter themselves under the protection of them . but such a protection it is , which is neither allowed in the court of heaven , nor will ever secure the souls of men without a hearty and sincere repentance , from the arrest of divine justice ; which when it comes to call the world to an account of their actions will make no defalcations at all for the power of custom , or common practice of the world . . the impossibility of the command , or rather of obedience to it . when neither of the former pleas will ef●ect their design , but notwithstanding the pretended necessity of humane actions , and the more than pretended common practice of the world , their consciences still fly in their faces , and rebuke them sharply for their sins , then in a mighty rage and fury they charge god himself with tyranny in laying impossible laws upon the sons of men . but if we either consider the nature of the command , or the promises which accompany it , or the large experience of the world to the contrary , we shall easily discover that this pretence is altogether as unreasonable as either of the foregoing . for what is it that god requires of men as the condition of their future happiness which in its own nature is judged impossible ? is it for men to (a) live soberly , righteously and godly in this world ? for that was the end of christian religion to perswade men to do so : but who thinks it impossible to avoid the occasions of intemperance , not to defraud , or injure his neighbours , or to pay that reverence and sincere devotion to god which we owe unto him ? is it to do as we would be done by ? yet that hath been judged by strangers to the christian religion a most exact measure of humane conversation ; is it to maintain an universal kindness and good will to men ? that indeed is the great excellency of our religion , that it so strictly requires it ; but if this be impossible , farewel all good nature in the world ; and i suppose few will own this charge , lest theirs be suspected . is it to be patient under sufferings , moderate in our desires , circumspect in our actions , contented in all conditions ? yet these are things which those have pretended to who never owned christianity , and therefore surely they never thought them impossible . is it to be charitable to the poor , compassionate to those in misery ? is it to be frequent in prayer , to love god above all things , to forgive our enemies as we hope god will forgive us , to believe the gospel , and be ready to suffer for the sake of christ ? the●e are very few among us but will say they do all these things already , and therefore surely they do not think them impossible . the like answer i might give to all the other precepts of the gospel till we come to the denying ungodliness and worldly lusts , and as to these too , if we charge men with them , they either deny their committing them , and then say they have kept the command : or if they confess it , they promise amendment for the future ; but in neither respect can they be said to think the command impossible . thus we see their own mouths will condemn them when they charge god with laying impossible laws on mankind . but if we enquire further than into the judgments of those ( who it may be never concerned themselves so much about the precepts of christian religion , as to try whether they had any power to observe them or not ) ; nay , if we yield them more ( than , it may be , they are willing to enquire after , though they ought to do it ) viz. that without the assistance of divine grace , they can never do it : yet such is the unlimited nature of divine goodness and the exceeding riches of gods grace , that ( knowing the weakness and degeneracy of humane nature wh●n he gave these commands to men ) he makes a large and free offer of assistance to all those who are so sensible of their own infirmity as to beg it of him . and can men then say the command is impossible when he hath promi●ed an assistance suitable to the nature of the duty and the in●irmities of men ? if it be ackowledged that some of the duties of christianity are very difficult to us now ; let us consider by what means he hath sweetned the performance of them . will not the proposal of so excellent a reward , make us swallow some more than ordinary hardships that we might enjoy it ? hath he not made use of the most obliging motives to perswade ●s to the practice of what he requires by the infinite discovery of his own love , the death of his son , and the promise of his spirit ? and what then is wanting , but only setting our selves to the serious obedience of them , to make his commands not only not impossible , but easie to us ? but our grand fault is , we make impossibilities our selves where we find none , and then we complain of them : we are first resolved not to practise the commands , and then nothing more easie than to find fault with them : we first pass sentence , and then examine evidences ; first condemn , and then enquire into the merits of the cause . yet surely none of these things can be accounted impossible , which have been done by all those who have been sincere and hearty christians ; and god forbid we should think all guilty of hypocrisie , who have professed the christian religion from the beginning of it to this day . nay more than so , they have not only done them , but professed to have that joy and satisfaction of mind in the doing of them , which they would not exchange for all the pleasures and delights of the world . these were the men , who not only were patient , but rejoyced in sufferings ; who accounted it their honour and glory to endure any thing for the sake of so excellent a religion ; who were so assured of a future happiness by it , that they valued martyrdoms above crowns and scepters . but god be thanked , we may hope to come to heaven on easier terms than these , or else many others might never come thither , besides those who think to make this a pretence for their sin , that now when with encouragement and honour we may practise our religion , the commands of it are thought impossible by them . thus we have made good the general charge here implyed against wicked men in that they are called fools , by examining the most plausible pretences they bring for themselves . i now come to the particular impeachment of their folly , because they make a mock at sin . and that i shall prove especially by two things : . because this argues the highest degree of wickedness . . because it betrays the greatest weakness of judgment and want of consideration . . because it argues the highest degree of wickedness . if to sin be folly , to make a mock at it is little short of madness . it is such a height of impiety that few but those who are of very proffigate consciences can attain to , without a long custom in sinning . for conscience is at first modest , and starts and boggles at the appearance of a great wickedness , till it be used to it and grown familiar with it . it is no such easie matter for a man to get the mastery of his conscience ; a great deal of force and violence must be used to ones self before he does it . the natural impressions of good and evil , the fears of a deity , and the apprehensions of a future state are such curbs and checks in a sinners way , that he must first sin himself beyond all ●eeling of these , before he can attain to the seat of the scorners . and we may justly wonder how any should ever come thither , when they must break through all that is ingenuous and modest , all that is vertuous and good , all that is tender and apprehensive in humane nature , before they can arrive at it . they must first deny a god , and despise an immortal soul , they must conquer their own reason , and cancel the law written in their hearts , they must hate all that is serious , and yet soberly believe themselves to be no better than the beasts that perish , before men can come to make a scoff at religion , and a mock at sin . and who now could ever imagine that in a nation professing christianity , among a people whose genius enclines them to civility and religion , yea among those who have the greatest advantages of behaviour and education , and who are to give the laws of civility to the rest of the nation , there should any be found who should deride religion , make sport with their own profaneness , and make so light of nothing , as being damned ? i come not here to accuse any , and least of all those who shew so much regard of religion as to be present in the places devoted to sacred purposes ; but if there be any such here , whose consciences accuse themselves for any degrees of so great impiety , i beseech them by all that is dear and precious to them , by all that is sacred and serious , by the vows of their baptism , and their participation of the holy eucharist , by all the kindness of heaven which they either enjoy or hope for , by the death and sufferings of the son of god , that they would now consider how great folly and wickedness they betray in it , and what the dreadful consequence of it will be , if they do not timely repent of it . if it were a doubt ( as i hope it is not among any here ) whether the matters of religion be true or no , they are surely things which ought to be seriously thought and spoken of . it is certainly no jesting matter to affront a god of infinite maiesty and power , ( and he judges every wilful sinner to do so ) nor can any one in his wits think it a thing not to be regarded , whether he be eternally happy or miserable . methinks then among persons of civility and honour , above all others , religion might at least be treated with the respect and reverence due to the concernments of it ; that it be not made the sport of entertainments , nor the common subject of plays and comedies . for is there nothing to trifle with , but god and his service ? is wit grown so schismatical and sacrilegious , that it can please it self with nothing but holy ground ? are prophaneness and wit grown such inseparable companions , that none shall be allowed to pretend to the one , but such as dare be highly guilty of the other ? far be it from those who have but the name of christians , either to do these things themselves , or to be pleased with them that do them : especially in such times as ours of late have been , when god hath used to many ways to make us serious if any thing would ever do it . if men had only slighted god and religion , and made a mock at sin , when they had grown wanton through the abundance of peace and plenty , and saw no severities of god's justice used upon such who did it ; yet the fault had been so great , as might have done enough to have interrupted their peace and destroyed that plenty , which made them out of the greatness of their pride and wantonn●ss to kick against heaven : but to do it in despight of all god's judgments , to laugh in his face when his rod is upon our backs , when neither pestilence nor fire can make us more afraid of him , exceedingly aggravates the impiety , and makes it more unpardonable . when like the old (a) germans we dance among naked swords , when men shall defie and reproach heaven in the midst of a cities ruines , and over the graves of those whom the arrows of the almighty have heaped together , what can be thought of such but that nothing will make them serious , but eternal misery ? and are they so sure there is no such rising to be feared , that they never think of it , but when by their execrable oaths they call upon god to damn them , for fear he should not do it time enough for them ? thus will men abuse his patience , and provoke his justice , while they trample upon his kindness , and slight his severities , while they despise his laws and mock at the breaches of them , what can be added more to their impiety ? or what can be expected by such who are guilty of it , but that god should quickly discover their mighty folly by letting them see how much they have deceived themselves , since (a) god will not be mocked , but (b) because of these things the wrath of god will most certainly come upon , the children of disobedience . which leads to the second thing , wherein this folly is seen . . which is in the weakness of judgment and want of consideration , which this betrays in men . folly is the great unsteadiness of the mind in the thoughts of what is good and fitting to be done . it were happy for many in the world , if none should suffer in their reputation for want of wisdom , but such whom nature or some violent distemper have wholly deprived of the use of their reason and understandings : but wisdom does not lye in the rambling imaginations of mens minds ( for fools may think of the same things which wise men practise ) but in a due consideration and choice of things which are most agreeable to the end they design , supposing the end in the first place to be worthy a wise mans choice ; for i cannot yet see why the end may not be chosen as well as the means , when there are many stand in competition for our choice , and men first deliberate , and then determine which is the fittest to be pursued . but when the actions of men discover , that either they understand or regard not the most excellent end o● their beings , or do those things which directly cross and thwart their own . designs , or else pursue those which are mean and ignoble in themselves , we need not any further evidence of their folly , than these things discover . now that those who make a mock at sin are guilty of all these , will appear , if we consider whom they provoke by doing so , whom they most injure , and upon what reasonable consideration they are moved to what they do . . whom they provoke by their making a mock at sin ; supposing that there is a governour of the world , who hath established laws for us to be guided by , we may easily understand , whose honour and authority is reflected on , when the violations of his laws are made nothing of ▪ for surely if they had a just esteem of his power and soveraignty , they never durst make so bold with him , as all those do who not only commit sin themselves , but laugh at the scrupulosity of those who dare not . when dionysius changed apollo's cloak , and took off the golden beard of aesculapius , with those solemn jeers of the unsuitableness of the one to the son of a beardless father , and the much greater conveniency of a cheaper garment to the other : it was a sign he stood not much in awe of the severity of their looks , nor had any dread at all of the greatness of their power . but although there be so infinite a disproportion between the artificial deities of the heathens and the majesty of him who made and governs the whole world ; yet as little reverence to his power and authority is shewed by all such who dare affront him with such a mighty confidence , and bid the greatest defiance to his laws by scoffing at them . what is there the soveraigns and princes of the earth do more justly resent , and express the highest indignation against , than to have their laws despised , their persons affronted , and there authority contemned ? and can we then imagine , that a god of infinite power and majesty , the honour of whose laws is as dear to him as his own is , should sit still unconcerned , when so many indignities are continually offered them , and never take any notice at all of them ? it is true , his patience is not to be measured by our fretful and peevish natures , ( and it is happy for us all that it is not ) he knows the sinner can never escape his power , and therefore bears the longer with him : but yet his lenity is always joyned with his wisdom and justice , and the time is coming when patience it self shall be no more . is it not then the highest madness and folly to provoke one whose power is infinitely greater than our own is , and from the severity of whose wrath we cannot secure our selves one minute of an hour ? how knowest thou , o vain man , but that in the midst of all thy mirth and jollity , while thou art boasting of thy sins , and thinkest thou canst never fill up fast enough the measure of thy iniquities , a sudden fit of an apoplexy , or the breaking of an aposteme , or any of the innumerable instruments of death , may dispatch thee hence , and consign thee into the hands of divine justice ? and wherewithall then wilt thou be able to dispute with god ? wilt thou then charge his providence with folly , and his laws with unreasonableness ? when his greatness shall affright thee , his maiesty astonish thee , his power disarm thee , and his iustice proceed against thee : when notwithstanding all thy bravado's here , they own conscience shall be not only thy accuser and witness , but thy judge and executioner too : when it shall revenge it self upon thee for all the rapes and violences thou hast committed upon it here : when horror and confusion shall be thy portion , and the unspeakable anguish of a racked and tormented mind shall too late convince thee of thy folly in making a mock at that which stings with an everlasting venom . art thou then resolved to put all these things to the adventure , and live as securely as if the terrours of the almighty were but the dreams of men awake , or the fancies of weak and distempered brains ? but i had rather believe that in the heat and fury of thy lusts thou wouldst seem to others to think so , than thou either doest or canst perswade thy self to such unreasonable folly . is it not then far better to consult the tranquillity of thy mind here , and the eternal happiness of it hereafter , by a serious repentance and speedy amendment of thy life , than to expose thy self for the sake of thy sensual pleasures to the fury of that god whose justice is infinite , and power irresistible ? shall not the apprehension of his excellency make thee now afraid of him ? never then make any mock at sin more , unless thou art able to contend with the almighty , or to dwell with everlasting burnings . . the folly of it is seen in considering whom the injury redounds to by mens making themselves so pleasant with their sins . do they think by their rude attempts to dethrone the majesty of heaven , or by standing at the greatest defiance , to make him willing to come to terms of composition with them ? do they hope to slip beyond the bounds of his power , by falling into nothing when they die , or to sue out prohibitions in the court of heaven , to hinder the effects of iustice there ? do they design to out-wit infinite wisdom , or to find such flaws in god's government of the world , that he shall be contented to let them go unpunished ? all which imaginations are alike vain and foolish , and only shew how easily wickedness baffles th● reason of mankind , and makes them rather hope or wish for the most impossible things than believe they shall ever be punished for their impieties . if the apostate spirits can by reason of their present restraint and expectation of future punishments be as pleasant in beholding the follies of men as they are malicious to suggest them , it maybe one of the greatest diversions of their misery , to see how active and witty men are in contriving their own ruine . to see with what greediness they catch at every bait that is offered them , and when they are swallowing the most deadly poyson , what arts they use to perswade themselves that it is a healthful potion . no doubt , nothing can more gratifie them than to see men sport themselves into their own destruction , and go down so pleasantly to hell : when eternal flames become their ●irst awakeners , and then men begin to be wise , when it is too late to be so : when nothing but insupportable torments can convince them that god was in earnest with them , and that he would not always bear the affronts of evil men , and that those who derided the miseries of another life , shall have leisure enough to repent their folly , when their repentance shall only increase their sorrow without hopes of pardon by it . . but if there were any present felicity , or any considerable advantage to be gained by this mocking at sin , and undervaluing religion , there would seem to be some kind of pretence , though nothing of true reason for it . yet that which heightens this folly to the highest degree in the last place is , that there can be no imaginable consideration thought on which might look like a plausible temptation to it . the covetous man , when he hath defrauded his neighbour , and used all kinds of arts to compass an estate , hath the ●ulness of his bags to answer for him ▪ and whatever they may do in another world , he is sure they will do much in this . the voluptuous man hath the strong propensities of his nature , the force of temptation which lies in the charms of beauty , to excuse his unlawful pleasures by . the ambitious man , hath the greatness of his mind , the advantage of authority , the examples of those who have been great before him , and the envy of those who condemn him , to plead for the heights he aims at . but what is it which the persons who despises religion , and laughs at every thing that is serious , proposes to himself as the reason of what he does ? but alas ! this were to suppose him to be much more serious than he is , if he did propound any thing to himself as the ground of his actions . but it may be a great kindness to others , though none to himself ; i cannot imagine any unless it may be , to make them thankful they are not arrived to that height of folly ; or out of perfect good nature , lest they should take him to be wiser than he is . the psalmists fool despises him as much as he does religion : for he only saith it in his heart , there is no god ; but this though he dares not think there is none , yet shews him not near so much outward respect and reverence as the other does . even the atheist himself thinks him a fool , and the greatest of all other , who believes a god , and yet affronts him and trifles with him . and although the athiests folly be unaccountable , in resisting the clearest evidence of reason , yet so far he is to be commended for what he says , that if there be such a thing as religion , men ought to be serious in it . so that of all hands the scoffer at religion is looked on as one forsaken of that little reason , which might serve to uphold a slender reputation of being above the beasts that perish : nay , therein his condition is worse than theirs , that as they understand not religion , they shall never be punished for despising it : which such a person can never secure himself from , considering the power , the justice , the severity of that god , whom he hath so highly provoked . god grant that the apprehension of this danger may make us so serious in the profession and practice of our religion , that we may not by slighting that , and mocking at sin , provoke him to laugh at our calamities , and mock when our fear comes ; but that by beholding the sincerity of our repentance , and the heartiness of our devotion to him , he may turn his anger away from us , and rejoyce over us to do us good . sermon iii. preached at white-hall . luke vii . xxxv . but wisdom is justified of all her children . of all the circumstances of our blessed saviours appearance and preaching in the world , there is none which to our first view and apprehension of things , seems more strange and unaccountable , than that those persons who were then thought of all others to be most conversant in the law and the prophets , should be the most obstinate opposers of him . for since he came to fulfil all the prophesies which had gone before concerning him , and was himself the great prophet foretold by all the rest , none might in humane probability have been judged more likely to have received and honoured him , than those to whom the judgment of those things did peculiarly belong ; and who were as much concerned in the truth of them as any else could be . thus indeed it might have been reasonably expe●●ed ; and doubtless it had been so , if interest and prejudice had not had a far more absolute power and dominion over them , than they had over the rest of the people . if miracles , and prophesies , if reason and religion ; nay , if the interest of another world could have prevailed over the interest of this among them ; the iewish sanhedrin might have been some of the first converts to christianity , the scribes and pharisees had been all proselytes to christ , and the temple at ierusalem had been the first christian church . but to let us see with what a jealous eye power and interest looks on every thing that seems to of●er at any disturbance of it , how much greater sway partiality and prejudice hath upon the m●nds of men than true reason and religion ; and how hard a matter it is to convince those who have no mind to be convinced ; we find none more furious in their opposition to the person of christ , none more obstinate in their infidelity as to this doctrine , than those who were at that time in the greatest reputation among them for their authority , wisdom , and knowledge . these are they , whom our saviour , as often as he meets with , either checks for their ignorance , or rebukes for their pride , or denounces woes against for their malice and hypocrisie : these are they who instead of believing in christ persecute him ; instead of following him seek to destroy him : and that they might the better compass it , they reproach and defame him , as if he had been really as bad as themselves . and although the people might not presently believe what they said concerning him , yet that they might at least be kept in suspence by it , they endeavour to fasten the blackest calumnies upon him ? and suit them with all imaginable arts to the tempers of those they had to deal with . if any appeared zealous for the present peace and prosperity of the nation ; and for paying the duty and obedience they owed to the roman power , which then governed them : to them he is represented as a factious and seditious person , as an enemy to caesar , as one that intended to set up a kingdom of his own , though to the ruine of his country : that it was nothing but ambition and vain-glory , which made him gather disciples , and preach to multitudes ; that none could foretel what the dangerous consequences of such new doctrines might be , if not timely suppressed , and the author of them severely punished . thus to the prudent and cautious , reason of state is pretended as the ground of their enmity to christ. but to those who are impatient of the roman yoke , and watched for any opportunity to cast it off ; they suggest the mighty improbabilities of ever obtaining any deliverance by a person so mean and inconsiderable as our saviour appeared among them : and that surely god who delivered their forefathers of old from a bondage not greater than theirs , by a mighty hand and out-stretched arm , did never intend the redemption of his people by one of obscure parentage , mean education , and of no interest in the world . to the great men , they need no more than bid them , behold the train of his followers , who being generally poor , the more numerous they were , the more mouths they might see open , and ready to devour the estates of those who were above them . the priests and levites they bid consider what would become of them all , if the law of moses was abrogated , by which their interest was upheld ? for if the temple fell , it was impossible for them to stand . but the grand difficulty was among the people , who began to be possessed with so high an opinion of him by the greatness of his miracles , the excellency of his doctrine , and the innocency of his conversation , that unless they could insinuate into their minds some effectual prejudices against these , a●●●heir other attempts were like to be vain and unsucces●ful . if therefore they meet with any who were surprized by his mi●acles , as well as ravished by his doctrine ; when they saw him raise the dead , restore sight to the blind , cure the deaf and the lame , and cast out devils out of possessed persons , they tell them presently that these were the common arts of impostors , and the practice of those who go about to deceive the people ; that such things were easily done by the power of magick , and assistance of the evil spirits . if any were admirers of the pharisaical rigours and austerities ( as the people generally were ) when mens religion was measured by the sowerness of their countenances , the length of their prayers , and the distance they kept from other persons ; these they bid especially beware of our saviours doctrine ; for he condemned all zeal and devotion , all mortification and strictness of life , under the pretence of pharisaical hypocrisie ; that he sunk all religion into short prayers and dull morality ; that his conversation was not among the persons of any reputation for piety , but among publicans and sinners ; that nothing extraordinary appeared in his life ; that his actions were like other mens , and his company none of the best , and his behaviour among them with too great a freedom for a person who pretended to so high a degree o● holiness . thus we see the most perfect innocency could not escape the venom of malicious tongues ; but the less it enter'd , the more they were enraged , and made up what wanted in the truth of their calumnies , by their diligence in spreading them . as though their mouths indeed had been open sepulchres by the noysom vapours which came out of them ; and we may well think no less a poyson than that of asps could be under their lips , which so secretly and yet so mischievously conveyed it self into the hearts of the people . the only advantage which malice hath against the greatest virtue , is , that the greater it is , the less it takes notice of all the petty arts which are used against it ; and will not bring its own innocency so much into suspicion as to make any long apologies for it self . for , to a noble and generous spirit , assaulted rather by noise and clamour , than any solid reason or force of argument , neglect and disdain are the most proper weapons of defence : for where malice is only impertinent and troublesome , a punctual answer seems next to a confession . but although innocency needs no defence as to it self , yet it is necessary for all the advantages it hath of doing good to mankind , that it appear to be what it really is ; which cannot be done , unless its reputation be cleared from the malicious aspersions which are cast upon it . and from hence it was that our blessed saviour , though he thought it not worth the while to use the same diligence in the vindication of himself , which his enemies did in the defamation of him ; yet when he saw it necessary in order to the reception of his doctrine among the more ingenious and tractable part of his auditors , he sometimes by the quickness of his replies , sometimes by the suddenness and sharpness of his questions , and sometimes by the plain force of argument and reason , baffles his adversaries , so that though they were resolved not to be convinced , they thought it best for the time to be quiet . this was to let them see how easy it was for him to throw off their reproaches as fast as their malice could invent them ; and that it was as impossible for them by such weak attempts to obscure the reputation of his innocency , as for the spots which astronomers descern near the body of the sun , ever to eclipse the light of it . so that all those thinner mists which envy and detraction raised at his first appearance , and those grosser vapours which arose from their open enmity when he came to a greater height , did but add a brighter lustre to his glory , when it was seen that notwithstanding all the machinations of his enemies , his innocency brake forth like the light , which shineth more and more to the perfect day . but it pleased god , for the tryal of mens minds so to order the matters of our religion , that as they are never so clear , but men of obstinate and perverse spirits will find something to cavil at ; so they were never so dark and obscure in the most difficult circumstances of them , but men of unprejudiced and ingenuous minds might find enough to satisfie themselves about them . which is the main scope of our saviour in the words of the text , ( and shall be of our present discourse upon them ) but wisdom is justified of all her children . where without any further explication , by wisdom we understand the method which god useth in order to the salvation of mankind ; by the children of wisdom , all those who were willing to attain the end by the means which god affordeth , and by justifying not only the bare approving it , but the declaring of that approbation to the world by a just vindication of it from the cavils and exceptions of men . although the words are capable of various senses , yet this is the most natural , and agreeable to the scope of what goes before . for there our saviour speaks of the different ways wherein iohn baptist and himself appeared among the iews , in order to the same end , v. . for iohn baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine , and ye say , he hath a devil . a very severe devil surely , and one of the strictest order among them , that was so far from being cast out by fasting and prayer , that these were his continual imployment ! but what could we have sooner thought than that those persons who made the devil the author of so much mortification and severity of life , should presently have entertained religion in a more free and pleasing humour ; but this would not take neither , for the son of man comes eating and drinking ; i. e. was remarkable for none of those rigours and austerities which they condemned in iohn , and applauded in the pharisees ; and then presently they censure him , as a gluttonous man , and a wine-bibber , a friend of publicans and sinners , v. . i. e. the utmost excess that any course of life was capable of they presently apply to those who had no other design in all their actions , than to recommend true piety and goodness to them . so impossible it was by any means which the wisdom of heaven thought fit to use , to perswade them into any good opinion of the persons who brought the glad tidings of salvation to them : and therefore our saviour , when he sees how refractory and perverse they were , in interpreting every thing to the worse , and censuring the ways which infinite wisdom thought fittest to reclaim them by , he tells them that it was nothing but malice and obstinacy which was the cause of it ; but if they were men of teachable spirits ( who by an usual hebraism are called the children of wisdom ) they would see reason enough to admire , approve and justifie all the methods of divine providence for the good of mankind . for wisdom is justified of all her children . that which i mainly design to speak to from hence is , that although the wisest contrivances of heaven for the good of mankind are liable to the unjust cavils and exceptions of unreasonable men , yet there is enough to satisfie any teachable and ingenuous minds concerning the wisdom of them . before i come more particularly to examine those which concern our present subject , viz. the life and appearance of our lord and saviour , it will take very much off from the force of them , if we consider , that thus it hath always been , and supposing humane nature to be as it is , it is scarce conceivable that it should be otherwise . not that it is necessary or reasonable it should be so at all , any more than it is necessary that men should act foolishly or inconsiderately ; but as long as we must never expect to see all men either wise or pious , either to have a true judgment of things , or a love of religion ; so long we shall always find there will be some , who will be quarrelling with religion when they have no mind to practise it . i speak not now of those who make a meer jest and scoff at religion ( of which our age hath so many instances ) but of a sort of men who are of a degree above the other , though far enough short of any true and solid wisdom ; who yet are the more to be considered , because they seem to make a slender offer at reason in what they say . some pretend they are not only unsatisfied with the particular ways of instituted religion , any further than they are subservient to their present interest ( which is the only god they worship ) but to make all sure , the foundations even of natural religion it self cannot escape their cavils and exceptions . they have found out an index expurgatorius for those impressions of a deity which are in the hearts of men ; and use their utmost arts to obscure , since they cannot extinguish , those lively characters of the power , wisdom and goodness of god , which are every where to be seen in the large volume of the creation . religion is no more to them but an unaccountable fear ; and the very notion of a spiritual substance ( even of that without which we could never know what a contradiction meant ) is said to imply one . but if for quietness sake , and it may be to content their own minds as well as the world , they are willing to admit of a deity , ( which is a mighty concession from those who have so much cause to be afraid of him ) then to ease their minds of such troublesom companions as their fears are , they seek by all means to dispossess him of his government of the world , by denying his providence , and care of humane affairs . they are contented he should be called an excellent being , that should do nothing , and therefore signifie nothing in the world ; or rather , then he might be styled an almighty sardanapalus , that is so fond of ease and pleasure , that the least thought of business would quite spoil his happiness . or if the activity of their own spirits may make them think that such an excellent being may sometimes draw the curtains and look abroad into the world , then every advantage which another hath got above them , and every cross accident which befalls themselves ( which by the power of self-flattery most men have learnt to call the prosperity of the wicked , and the sufferings of good men ) serve them for mighty charges against the justice of divine providence . thus either god shall not govern the world at all , or if he do , it must be upon such terms as they please and approve of , or else they will erect an high court of justice upon him , and condemn the sovereign of the world , because he could not please his discontented subjects . and as if he were indeed arraigned at such a bar , every weak and peevish exception shall be cryed up for evidence ; when the fullest and clearest vindications of him shall be scorned and contemned . but this doth not in the least argue the obnoxiousness of him who is so accused , but the great injustice of those who dare pass sentence ; where it is neither in their power to understand the reason of his actions , nor if it were , to call him in question for his proceedings with men . but so great is the pride and arrogance of humane nature , that it loves to be condemning what it cannot comprehend ; and there needs be no greater reason given concerning the many disputes in the world about divine providence , than that god is wise , and we are not but would fain seem to be so . while men are in the dark they will be always quarrelling ; and those who contend the most , do it that they might seem to others to see , when they know themselves they do not . nay , there is nothing so plain and evident , but the reason of some men is more apt to be imposed upon in it , than their senses are ; as it appeared in him who could not otherwise confute the philosophers argument against motion , but by moving before him . so that we see the most certain things in the world are liable to the cavils of men who imploy their wits to do it ; and certainly those ought not to stagger mens faith in matters of the highe●t nature and consequence , which would not at all move them in other things . but at last it is acknowledged by the men who love to be called the men of wit in this age of ours , that there is a god and providence , a future state , and the differences of good and evil , but the christian religion they will see no further reason to embrace than as it is the religion of the state they live in . but if we demand what mighty reasons they are able to bring forth against a religion so holy and innocent in its design , so agreeable to the nature of god and man , so well contrived for the advantages of this and another life , so fully attested to come from god by the miracles wrought in confirmation of it , by the death of the son of god , and of such multitudes of martyrs , so certainly conveyed to us , by the unquestionable tradition of all ages since the first delivery of it ; the utmost they can pretend against it is , that it is built upon such an appearance of the son of god which was too mean and contemptible , that the doctrine of it is inconsistent with the civil interests of men , and the design ineffectual for the reformation of the world. for the removal therefore of these cavils against our religion , i shall shew , . that there were no circumstances in our saviours appearance or course of life , which were unbecoming the son of god , and the design he came upon . . that the doctrine delivered by him is so far from being contrary to the civil interests of the world , that it tends highly to the preservation of them . . that the design he came upon was very agreeable to the infinite wisdom of god , and most effectual for the reformation of mankind . for clearing the first of these , i shall consider , ( . ) the manner of our saviours appearance . ( . ) the course of his li●e ; and what it was which his enemies did most object against him . . the manner of our saviours appearance ; which hath been always the great offence to the admirers of the pomp and greatness of this world. for when they heard of the son of god coming down from heaven , and making his progress into this lower world , they could imagin nothing less , than that an innumerable company of angels must have been dispatched before , to have prepared a place for his reception ; that all the soveraigns and princes of the world must have been summoned to give their attendance and pay their homage to him : that their scepters must have been immediately laid at his feet , and all the kingdoms of the earth been united into one universal monarchy under the empire of the son of god : that the heavens should bow down at his presence to shew their obeysance to him , the earth tremble and shake for fear at the near approaches of his majesty ; that all the clouds should clap together in one universal thunder , to welcome his appearance , and tell the inhabitants of the world what cause they had to fear him whom the powers of the heavens obey : that the sea should run out of its wonted course with amazement and horror ; and if it were possible , hide it self in the hollow places of the earth : that the mountains should shrink in their heads , to fill up the vast places of the deep ; so that all that should be fulfilled in a literal sense , which was foretold of the coming of the messias , (a) that every valley should be filled , and every mountain and hill brought low ; the crooked made straight , and the rough ways smooth , and all flesh see the salvation of god. yea , that the son for a time should be darkned , and the moon withdraw her light , to let the nations of the earth understand that a glory infinitely greater than theirs did now appear to the world. in a word , they could not imagine the son of god could be born without the pangs and throws of the whole creation ; that it was as impossible for him to appear , as for the son in the firmament to disappear , without the notice of the whole world. but when instead of all his pomp and grandeur he comes incognito into the world , instead of giving notice of his appearance to the potentates of the earth , he is only discovered to a few silly shepherds and three wise men of the east ; instead of choosing either rome or hierusalem for the place of his nativity , he is born at bethleem , a mean and obscure village : instead of the glorious and magnificent palaces of the east or west , which were at that time so famous ; he is brought forth in a stable , where the manger was his cradle , and his mother the only attendant about him : who was her self none of the great persons of the court , nor of any same in the country ; but was only rich in her genealogy , and honourable in her pedigree . and according to the obscurity of his birth was his education too : his youth was not spent in the imperial court at rome , nor in the schools of philosophers at athens , nor at the feet of the great rabbies at ierusalem : but at nazareth , a place of mean esteem among the iews , where he was remarkable for nothing so much as the vertues proper to his age , modesty , humility and obedience . all which he exercises to so high a degree , that his greatest kindred and acquaintance were mightily surprized when at years of age , he began to discover himself by the miracles which he wrought , and the authority which he spake with . and although the rayes of his divinity began to break forth through the clouds he had hitherto disguised himself in , yet he persisted still in the same course of humility and self-denial : taking care of others to the neg●ect of himself ; feeding others by a miracle , and fasting himself , to one : shewing his power in working miraculous cures , and his humility in concealing them : conversing with the meanest of the people , and choosing such for his apostles , who brought nothing to recommend them but innocency and simplicity . who by their heats and ignorance were continual exercises of his patience in bearing with them , and of his care and tenderness in instructing them . and after a life thus led with such unparallel'd humility , when he could add nothing more to it by his actions , he doth it by his sufferings ; and compleats the sad tragedy of his life by a most shameful and ignominious death . this is the short and true account of all those things which the admirers of the greatness of this world think mean and contemptible in our saviours appearance here on earth . but we are now to consider whether so great humility were not more agreeable with the design of his coming into the world , than all that pomp and state would have been which the son of god might have more easily commanded than we can imagine . he came not upon so mean an errand , as to dazle the eyes of mankind with the brightness of his glory , to amaze them by the terribleness of his majesty , much less to make a shew of the riches and gallantry of the world to them : but he came upon far more noble and excellent designs , to bring life and immortality to light , to give men the highest assurance of an eternal happiness and misery in the world to come , and the most certain directions for obtaining the one , and avoiding the other : and in order to that , nothing was judged more necessary by him , than to bring the vanities of this world out of that credit and reputation they had gained among foolish men . which he could never have done , if he had declaimed never so much against the vanity of worldly greatness , riches and honours , if in the mean time himself had lived in the greatest splendour and bravery . for the enjoyning then the contempt of this world to his disciples in hopes of a better , would have looked like the commendation of the excellency of fasting at a full meal , and of the conveniencies of poverty by one who makes the greatest hast to be rich . that he might not therefore seem to offer so great a contradiction to his doctrine by his own example , he makes choice of a life so remote from all suspicion of designs upon this world , that though the foxes had holes , and the birds of the air had nests , yet the son of man , who was the lord and heir of all things , had not whereon to lay his head . and as he shewed by his life how little he valued the great things of the world , so he discovered by his death how little he feared the evil things of it : all which he did with a purpose and intention to rectifie the great mistakes of men as to these things : that they might no longer venture an eternal happiness for the splendid and glorious vanities of this present life ; nor expose themselves to the utmost miseries of another world , to avoid the frowns of this . from hence proceeded that generous contempt of the world , which not only our saviour himself , but all his true disciples of the first ages of christianity were so remarkable for ; to let others see they had greater things in their eye than any here , the hopes of which they would not part with for all that this world thinks great or desirable . so that considering the great danger most men are in , by too passionate a love of these things , and that universal and infinite kindness which our saviour had to the souls of men ; there was nothing he could discover it more in as to his appearance in the world , than by putting such an affront upon the greatness and honour of it , as he did by so open a neglect of it in his life , and despising it in his death and sufferings . and who now upon any pretence of reason dare entertain the meaner apprehensions of our blessed saviour because he appeared without the pomp and greatness of the world , when the reason of his doing so was , that by his own humility and self-denyal he might shew us the way to an eternal happiness ? which he well knew how very hard it would be for men to attain to , who measure things not according to their inward worth and excellency , but the splendour and appearance which they make to the world : who think nothing great but what makes them gazed upon ; nothing desireable but what makes them flattered . but if they could be once perswaded how incomparably valuable the glories of the life to come are above all the gayeties and shews of this ; they would think no condition mean or contemptible , which led to so great an end ; none happy or honourable which must so soon end in the grave , or be changed to eternal misery . and that we might entertain such thoughts as these are , not as the melancholy effects of discontent and disappointments , but as the serious result of our most deliberate enquiry into the value of things , was the design of our saviour in the humility of his appearance , and of that excellent doctrine which he recommended to the world by it . were i to argue the case with philosophers , i might then at large shew from the free acknowledgments of the best and most experienced of them , that nothing becomes so much one who designs to recommend vertue to the world , as a real and hearty contempt of all the pomp of it , and that the meanest condition proceeding from such a principle is truly and in it self more honourable , than living in the greatest splendour imaginable . were i to deal with the iews , i might then prove , that as the prophecies concerning the messias speak of great and wonderful effects of his coming , so that they should be accomplished in a way of suffering and humility . but since i speak to christians , and therefore to those who were perswaded of the great kindness and love of our saviour in coming into the world , to reform it , and that by convincing men of the truth and excellency of a future state , no more need to be said to vindicate the appearance of him from that meanness and contempt , which the pride and ambition of vain men is apt to cast upon it . . but not only our saviours manner of appearance , but the manner of his conversation gave great offence to his enemies , viz. that it was too free and familiar among persons who had the meanest reputation , the publicans and sinners ; and in the mean time declaimed against the strictest observers of the greatest rigours and austerities of life . and this no doubt was one great cause of the mortal hatred of the pharisees against him , though least pretended , that even thereby they might make good that charge of hypocrisie which our saviour so often draws up against them . and no wonder , if such severe rebukes did highly provoke them , since they found this so gainful and withall so easie a trade among the people , when with a demure look and a sower countenance they could cheat and defraud their brethren ; and under a specious shew of devotion could break their fasts by devouring widows houses , and end their long prayers to god with acts of the highest injustice to their neighbours . as though all that while , they had been only begging leave of god to do all the mischief they could to their brethren . it is true , such as these were , our saviour upon all occasions speaks against with the greatest sharpness , as being the most dangerous enemies to true religion : and that which made men whose passion was too strong for their reason abhor the very name of religion , when such baseness was practised under the profession of it . when they saw men offer to compound with heaven for all their injustice and oppression , with not a twentieth part of what god challenges as his due ; they either thought religion to be a meer device of men , or that these mens hypocrisie ought to be discovered to the world. and therefore our blessed saviour , who came with a design to retrieve a true spirit of religion among men , finds it first of all necessary to unmask those notorious hypocrites , that their deformities being discovered , their ways as well as their persons might be the better understood and avoided . and when he saw by the mighty opinion they had of themselves , and their uncharitableness towards all others , how little good was to be done upon them , he seldom vouchsafes them his presence ; but rather converses with those who being more openly wicked were more easily convinced of their wickedness , and perswaded to reform . for which end alone it was that he so freely conversed with them , to let them see there were none so bad , but his kindness was so great to them , that he was willing to do them all the good he could : and therefore this could be no more a just reproach to christ , that he kept company sometimes with these , than it is to a chyrurgion to visit hospitals , or to a physician to converse with the sick . . but when they saw that his greatness did appear in another way , by the authority of his doctrine , and the power of his miracles , then these wise and subtile men apprehend a further reach and design in all his actions : viz. that his low condition was a piece of popularity , and a meer disguise to ensnare the people , the better to make them in love with his doctrine , and so by degrees to season them with principles of rebellion and disobedience : hence came all the clamours of his being an enemy to caesar , and calling himself the king of the iews , and of his design to erect a kingdom of his own , all which they interpret in the most malicious though most unreasonable sense . for nothing is so politick as malice and ill-will , for that finds designs in every thing ; and the more contrary they are to all the protestations of the persons concerned , the deeper that suggests presently they are laid , and that there is the more cause to be afraid of them . thus it was in our blessed saviour's case ; it was not the greatest care used by him to shew his obedience to the authority he lived under , it was not his most solemn disavowing having any thing to do with their civil interests , not the severe checks he gave his own disciples for any ambitious thoughts among them , not the recommending the doctrine of obedience to them , nor the rebuke he gave one of his most forward disciples for offering to draw his sword in the rescue of himself , could abate the fury and rage of his enemies , but at last they condemn the greatest teacher of the duty of obedience as a traytor , and the most unparallel'd example of innocency as a malefactor . but though there could be nothing objected against the life and actions of our blessed saviour , as tending to sedition and disturbance of the civil peace , yet that , these men ( who were inspir'd by malice , and prophesied according to their own interest ) would say , was because he was taken away in time , before his designs could be ripe for action , but if his doctrine tended that way , it was enough to justifie their proceedings against him . so then , it was not what he did , but what he might have done : not treason but convenience which made them take away the life of the most innocent person : but if there had been any tain● in his doctrine that way , there had been reason enough in such an age of faction and sedition to have used the utmost care to prevent the spreading it . but so far is this from the least ground of probability that it is not possible to imagine a religion which aims less at the present particular interests of the embracers of it , and more at the publick interests of princes than christianity doth , as it was both preached and practised by our saviour and his apostles . and here we have cause to lament the unhappy fate of religion when it falls under the censure of such who think themselves the masters of all the little arts whereby this world is governed . if it teaches the duty of subjects , and the authority of princes , if it requires obedience to laws , and makes mens happiness or misery in another life in any measure to depend upon it ; then religion is suspected to be a meer trick of sta●e , and an invention to keep the world in awe , whereby men might the better be moulded into societies , and preserved in them . but if it appear to inforce any thing indispensably on the consciences of men , though humane laws require the contrary ; if they must not ●orswear their religion , and deny him whom they hope to be saved by , when the magistrate calls them to it , then such half-witted men think that religion is nothing but a pretence to rebellion , and conscience only an obs●inate plea for disobedience . but this is to take it for granted that there is no such thing as religion in the world ; for if there be , there must be some inviolable rights of divine soveraignty acknowledged , which must not vary according to the diversity of the edicts and laws of men . but supposing the profession and practice of the christian religion to be allowed inviolable , there was never any religion , nay , never any inventions of the greatest politicians , which might compare with that for the preservation of civil societies . for this in plain and express words tells all the owners of it , that they mu●t live in subjection and obedience ; (a) not only for wrath , but for conscience sake ; that they who do resist receive unto themselves damnation , and that because whosoever resisteth the power , resisteth the ordinance of god. than which it is impossible to conceive arguments of greater force to keep men in obedience to authority ; for he that only obeys because it is his inter●st to do so , will have the same reason to disobey when there is an apprehension that may make more for his advantage . but when the reason of obedience is derived from the concernments of another life , no hopes of interest in this world can be thought to ballance the loss which may come by such a breach of duty in that to come . so that no persons do so dangerously undermine the foundations of civil government , as those who magnifie that to the contempt of religion ; none so effectually secure them as those who give to god the things that are gods , and by doing so , are obliged to give to caesar the things that are caesars . this was the doctrine of christianity as it was delivered by the first author of it ; and the practice was agreeable , as long as christianity preserved its primitive honour in the world . for , so far were men then from making their zeal for religion a pretence to rebellion , that though christianity were directly contrary to the religions then in vogue in the world , yet they knew of no other way of promoting it , but by patience , humility , meekness , prayers ●or their persecutors , and tears when they saw them obstinate . so far were they then from fomenting suspicions and jealousies concerning the princes and governours they lived under , that though they were generally known to be some of the worst of men as well as of princes , yet they charge all christians in the strictest manner , as they lov'd their religion and the honour of it , as they valued their ●ouls and the salvation of them , that they should be subject to them . so far were they then from giving the least encouragement to the usurpations of the rights of princes under the pretence of any power given to a head of the church : that there is no way for any to think they meant it , unless we suppose the apostles such mighty politicians , that it is because they say nothing at all of it ; but on the contrary , bid every soul be subject to the higher powers ; though an apostle , evangelist , prophet , whatever he be , as the fathers interpret it . yea so constant and uniform was the doctrine and practice of obedience in all the first and purest ages of the christian church , that no one instance can be produced of any usurpation of the rights of princes under the pretence of any title from christ , or any disobedience to their authority , under the pretence of promoting christianity , through all those times wherein christianity the most flourished , or the christians were the most persecuted . and happy had it been for us in these last ages of the world , if we had been christians on the same terms which they were in the primitive times ; then there had been no such scandals raised by the degeneracy of men upon the most excellent and peaceable religion in the world , as though that were unquiet and troublesom , because so many have been so who have made shew of it . but let their pretences be never so great to infallibility on one side , and to the spirit on the oth●r , so far as men ●ncourage faction and disobedience , so far they have not the spirit of christ and christianity , and therefore are none of his . for he shewed his great wisdom in contriving such a method of saving mens souls in another world , as tended most to the preservation of the peace and quietness of this ; and though this wisdom may be evil spoken of by men of restless and unpeaceable minds , yet it will be still justified by all who have heartily embraced the wisdom which is from above , who are pure and peaceable as that wisdom is , and such , and only s●ch are the children of it . . i come to shew , that the design of christ's appearance was very agreeable to the infinite wisdom of god ; and that the means were very suitable and effectual for carrying on of that design for the reformation of mankind . . that the design it self was very agreeable to the infinite wisdom of god. what could we imagine more becoming the wisdom of god , than to contrive a way for the recovery of lapsed and degenerate mankind ? who more fit to employ upon such a message as this , than the son of god ? for his coming gives the greatest assurance to the minds of men , that god was serious in the management of this design , than which nothing could be of greater importance in order to the success of it . and how was it possible he should give a greater testimony of himself , and withal of the purpose he came about , than he did when he was in the world ? the accomplishment of prophesies , and power of miracles shewed who he was ; the nature of his doctrine , the manner of his conversation , the greatness of his sufferings , shewed what his design was in appearing among men : for they were all managed with a peculiar respect to the convincing mankind , that god was upon terms of mercy with them , and had therefore sent his son into the world , that he might not only obtain the pardon of sin for those who repent , but eternal life for all them that obey him . and what is there now we can imagine so great and desirable as this , for god to manifest his wisdom in ? it is true , we see a great discovery of it in the works of nature , and might do in the methods of divine providence if partiality and interest did not blind our eyes ; but both these , though great in themselves , yet fall short of the contrivance of bringing to an eternal happiness man who had fallen from his maker , and was perishing in his own folly . yet this is that which men in the pride and vanity of their own imaginations either think not worth considering , or consider as little as if they thought so ; and in the mean time think themselves very wise too . the iews had the wisdom of their traditions which they gloried in , and despised the son of god himself when he came to alter them . the greeks had the wisdom of their philosophy which they so passionately admir'd , that whatever did not agree with that , though infinitely more certain and useful , was on that account rejected by them . the romans , after the conquest of so great a part of the world , were grown all such politicians and statesmen , that few of them could have leisure to think of another world , who were so busie in the management of this . and some of all these sorts do yet remain in the world , which makes so many so little think of , or admire this infinite discovery of divine wisdom : nay , there are some who can mix all these together , joyning a iewish obstinacy , with the pride and self-opinion of the greeks , to a roman unconcernedness about the matters of another life . and yet upon a true and just enquiry never any religion could be found , which could more fully satisfie the expectation of the iews , the reason of the greeks , or the wisdom of the romans , than that which was made known by christ , who was the wisdom of god , and the power of god. here the iew might find his messias come , and the promises fulfilled which related to him ; here the greek might find his long and vainly look'd for certainty of a life to come , and the way which leads to it ; here the roman might see a religion serviceable to another world and this together . here are precepts more holy , promises more certain , rewards more desirable than ever the wit or invention of men could have attained to . here are institutions far more pious , u●eful and serviceable to mankind , than the most admired laws of the famous legislators of greece or rome . here are no popular designs carried on , no vices indulged for the publick interest , which solon , lycurgus and plato are charged with . here is no making religion a meer trick of state , and a thing only useful for governing the people , which numa and the great men at rome are lyable to the suspicion of . here is no wrapping up religion in strange figures and mysterious non-sense , which the egyptians were so much given to . here is no inhumanity and cruelty in the sacrifices offer'd , no looseness and profaneness allowed in the most solemn mysteries , no worshipping of such for gods who had not been fit to live if they had been men , which were all things so commonly practised in the idolatries of the heathens . but the nature of the worship is such as the minds of those who come to it ought to be , and as becomes that god whom we profess to serve , pure and holy , grave and serious , solemn and devout , without the mixtures of superstition , vanity or ostentation . the precepts of our religion are plain and easie to be known , very suitable to the nature of mankind , and highly tending to the advantage of those who practise them , both in this and a better life . the arguments to perswade men are the most weighty and powerful , and of as great importance as the love of god , the death of his son , the hopes of happiness , and the fears of eternal misery , can be to men . and wherein is the contrivance of our religion defective , when the end is so desirable , the means so effectual for the obtaining of it ? . which is the next thing to be considered . there are two things which in this degenerate estate of man are necessary in order to the recovery of his happiness ; and those are repentance for sins past , and sincere obedience for the future : now both these the gospel gives men the greatest encouragements to , and therefore is the most likely to effect the design it was intended for . . for repentance for sins past . what more powerful motives can there be to perswade men to repent , than for god to let men know that he is willing to pardon their sins upon the sincerity of their repentance , but without that , there remains nothing but a fearful expectation of judgment , and fiery indignation ? that their sins are their follies , and therefore to repent is to grow wise : that he requires no more from men , but what every considerative man knows is fitting to be done whenever he reflects upon his actions : that there can be no greater ingratitude or disingenuity towards the son of god than to stand at defiance with god when he hath shed his blood to reconcile god and man to each other : that every step of his humiliation , every part of the tragedy of his life , every wound at his death , every groan and sigh which he uttered upon the cross , were designed by him as the most prevailing rhetorick , to perswade men to forsake their sins , and be happy : that there cannot be a more unaccountable folly , than by impenitency to lose the hopes of a certain and eternal happiness for the sake of those pleasures which every wise man is ashamed to think of : that to continue in sin with the hopes to repent , is to ●tab a man's self with the hopes of a cure : that the sooner men do it , the sooner they will find their minds at ease , and that the pleasures they enjoy in forsaking their sins , are far more noble and manly than ever they had in committing them : but if none of these arguments will prevail with them , perish they must , and that unavoidably , insupportably , and irrecoverably : and if such arguments as these will not prevail with men to leave their sins , it is impossible that any should . . for holiness of li●e : for christ did not come into the world , and dye for us , meerly that we should repent of what is past , (a) by denying ungodliness and worldly lusts , but that we should live soberly , righteously and godly in this present world . and what he doth expect , he hath given the greatest encouragements to perform : by the clearness of his precepts , the excellency of his own example , the promise of his grace , and the proposition of eternal rewards and punishments , whereby he takes o●f all the objections men are apt to make against obedience to the commands of christ : the pretence of ignorance , because his laws are so clear ; the pretence of impossibility by his own example ; the pretence of infirmity by the assistance of his grace ; the pretence of the unnecessariness of so great care of our actions by making eternal rewards and punishments to depend upon it . let us then reflect upon the whole design of the gospel , and see how admirably it is suited to the end it was intended for , to the condition of those whose good was design'd by it , and to the whole honour of the great contriver and manager of it . and let not us by our impenitency and the unholiness of our lives , dishonour god and our saviour , reproach our religion , and condemn that by our lives which we justifie by our words . for when we have said all we can , the best and most effectual vindication of christian religion is to live according to it : but oh then how unhappy are we that live in such an age wherein it were hard to know that men were christians , unless we are bound to believe their words against the tenour and course of their actions ! what is become of the purity , the innocency , the candor , the peaceableness , the sincerity and devotion of the primitive christians ! what is become of their zeal for the honour of christ and christian religion ! if it were the design of men , to make our religion a dishonour and reproach to the iews , mahumetans , and heathens , could they do it by more effectual means than they have done ? who is there that looks into the present state of the christian world , could ever think that the christian religion was so incomparably beyond all others in the world ? is the now christian rome so much beyond what it was while it was heathen ? nay , was it not then remarkable in its first times for justice , sincerity , contempt of riches , and a kind of generous honesty , and who does not ( though of the same religion , if he hath any ingenuity left ) lament the want of all those things there now ? will not the sobriety of the very turks upbraid our excesses and debaucheries ? and the obstinacy of the iews in defence and practice of their religion , condemn our coldness and indifferency in ours ? if we have then any tenderness for the honour of our religion , or any kindness for our own souls , let us not only have the name , but let us lead the lives of christians ; let us make amends for all the reproaches which our religion hath suffered by the faction and disobedience of some , by the oaths and blasphemies , the impieties and profaneness of others , by the too great negligence and carelesness of all that if it be possible , christianity may appear in its true glory , which will thee only be , when those who name the nam● of christ depart from iniquity , and live i● all manner of holy conversation and godliness . sermon iv. preached at white-hall . romans i. xvi . for i am not ashamed of the gospel of christ ; for it is the power of god unto salvation to every one that believes , to the jew first , and also to the greek . these words are uttered by one who was himself a remarkable instance of the truth of the doctrine contained in them , viz. of that divine power which did accompany the gospel of christ. for what can we imagine else should make him now not ashamed of the gospel of christ , who not long before was not ashamed to persecute all those who professed it ? one , whose spirit was fermented with the leaven of the pharisees , and inraged with fury against all who owned the name of christ , is of a sudden turned quite into another temper , to the confusion of those who employed him , and the amazement of them whom he designed to persecute . nay , so great was the change which was wrought in him , that from a bigot of the iewish religion he becomes an apostle of the christian , and from breathing flames against the christians , none more ready than he to undergo them for christ. if he had only given over his persecution , it might have been thought , that he had meerly run himself out of breath , and grown weary of his former fury , ( as greater persons than he did afterwards ) but to retain the same fervor of spirit in preaching christ , which he had before in opposing him , to have as great zeal for making christians , as he had for destroying them , must needs proceed from some great and unusual cause . whilst the iews thought he had too much learning and interest to become their enemy , and the christians found he had too much rage and fury to be their friend , even then when they least expected it , instead of continuing an instrument of the sanhedrin for punishing the christians , he declared himself an apostle and servant of jesus christ. and that no ordinary one neither : for such was the efficacy of those divine words , saul , saul , why persecutest thou me , that they not only presently allay his former heat , but quicken and animate him to a greater zeal for the honour of him whom he had persecuted before . and the faster he had run when he was out of his way , the greater diligence he used when he found it , there being none of all the followers of christ who out-strip him in his constant endeavours to advance the christian religion in the world. and if an unwearied diligence to promote it , an uncessant care for preserving it , an universal concern for all who owned it , and an undaunted spirit in bearing the affronts and injuries he underwent for it , be any perswasive arguments of the love a man bears to his religion , there was never any person who made a clearer demonstration than st. paul did of the truth of his religion , and his sincerity in embracing it . for his endeavours were suitable to the greatness of his spirit , his care as large as the horizon of the sun of righteousness , his courage as great as the malice of his enemies . for he was neither afraid of the malice of the iews , or of the wisdom of the greeks , or of the power of the romans , but he goes up and down preaching the gospel in a sphere as large as his mind was , and with a zeal only parallel with his former fury . he encountred the iews in their synagogues , he disputed with the greeks in their most famous cities , at athens , corinth , ephesus , and elsewhere , and every-where raising some trophies to the honour of the gospel : nothing now remained but that he should do the same at rome also . and for this he wants not spirit and resolution , for he even longed to be there , vers . . nay , he had often purposed to go thither , but waited for a convenient opportunity , v. . but while god was pleased otherwise to dispose of him , he could not conceal the joy which he had for the ready entertainment of the christian religion by those to whom he writes , and that their faith was grown as famous as the city wherein they dwelt , v. . first , i thank my god through iesus christ , for you all , that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world : and he further manifests the greatness of his affection to them , that without ceasing he made mention of them always in his prayers , v. . and among the rest of the blessings he prayed for , for himself and them ; he was sure not to forget his coming to them , v. . not out of an ambitious and vain-glorious humour that he might be taken notice of in that great and imperial city , but that he might be ●nstrumental in doing them service as he had done others , v. . . and to this end he tells them , what an obligation lay upon him to spread the doctrine of christ in all places and to all persons , v. . i am debtor both to the greeks and to the barbarians , to the wise and to the unwise . so that neither the wisdom of the greeks , nor the ignorance of the barbarians could hinder st. paul from discovering to them the contrivances of infinite wisdom ; and the excellent methods of divine goodness in order to mens eternal welfare . and although rome now thought it self to be the seat of wisdom , as well as empire and power , yet our apostle declares his readiness to preach the gospel there too , v. . for which he gives a sufficient reason in the words of the text ; for i am not ashamed of the gospel of christ , for it is the power of god to salvation , &c. wherein we have considerable these two things , . the apostle's boldness and freeness in declaring the doctrine of christ , for i am not ashamed , &c. . the ground of it in the following words , for it is the power of god to salvation , &c. . the apostles boldness and freeness in declaring the doctrine of christ. it was neither the gallantry of the roman court , nor the splendor of the city , not the greatness of her power , or wisdom of her statesmen could make st. paul entertain the meaner opinion of the doctrine he hoped to preach among them . had christ come 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , with a great deal of pomp and state into the world , subduing kingdoms and nations under him ; had st. paul been a general for the gospel instead of being an apostle of it , the great men of the world would then allow he had no cause to be ashamed either of his master , or of his employment . but to preach a crucified saviour among the glories and triumphs of rome , and a doctrine of so much simplicity and contempt of the world among those who were the masters of it , and managed it with so much art and cunning ; to perswade them to be followers of christ in a holy life , who could not be like the gods they worshipped , unless they were guilty of the greatest debaucheries , seems to be an employment so liable to the greatest scorn and contempt , that none but a great and resolved spirit would ever undertake it . for when we consider after so many hundred years profession of christianity , how apt the greatness of the world is to make men ashamed of the practice of it ; and that men aim at a reputation for wit by being able to abuse the religion they own ; what entertainment might we then think our religion met with among the great men of the age it was first preached in , when it not only encountered those weaker weapons of scoffs and raillery , but the strong holds of interest and education ? if our religion now can hardly escape the bitter scoffs , and profane jests of men who pawn their souls to be accounted witty , what may we think it suffered then , when it was accounted a part of their own religion to despise and reproach ours ? if in the age we live in , a man may be reproached for his piety and virtue , that is , for being really a christian , when all profess themselves to be so , what contempt did they undergo in the first ages of the christian world , when the very name of christian was thought a sufficient brand of infamy ? and yet such was the courage and magnanimity of the primitive christians , that what was accounted most mean and contemptible in their religion , viz. their believing in a crucified saviour , was by them accounted the matter of their greatest honour and glory . for though st. paul only saith here that he was not ashamed of the gospel of christ , yet elsewhere he explains that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is contained in these words , when he saith , god forbid that i should glory in any thing , save in the cross of christ , by whom the world is crucified to me , and i unto the world , gal. . . i. e. although he could not but be sensible how much the world despised him , and his religion together , yet that was the great satisfaction of his mind , that his religion had enabled him to despise the world as much . for neither the pomp and grandeur of the world , nor the smiles and flatteries of it , no nor its frowns and severities could abate any thing of that mighty esteem and value which he had for the christian religion . for in his own expression , he accounted all things else but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of christ iesus his lord , phil. . . which words are not spoken by one who was in despair of being taken notice of for any thing else , and therefore magnifies the profession he was engaged in ; but by a person as considerable as most of the time and nation he lived in both for his birth and education . so that his contempt of the world was no sullen and affected severity , but the issue of a sober and impartial judgment ; and the high esteem he professed of christianity was no fanatick whimsey , but the effect of a diligent enquiry , and the most serious consideration . and that will appear , . by the grounds and reasons which st. paul here gives why he was not ashamed of the gospel of christ , . from the excellent end it was designed for , and that is no less than salvation . from the effectualness of it in order to that end , it is the power of god to salvation . . from the necessity of believing the gospel by all who would attain that end ; to every one that believes , the iew first , and also to the greek . . from the excellent end it was designed for , the recovery and happiness of the souls of men , both which are implyed in the term salvation . for , considering the present condition of humane nature , as it is so far sunk beneath it self , and kept under the power of unruly passions ; whatever tends to make it happy , must do it by delivering it from all those things which are the occasions of its misery . so that whatever religion should promise to make men happy , without first making them vertuous and good , might on that very account be justly suspected of imposture . for the same reasons which make the the acts of any religion necessary , viz. that we may please that god , who commands and governs the world , must make it necessary for men to do it , in those things which are far more acceptable to him than all our sacrifices of what kind soever , which are the actions of true vertue and goodness . if then that accusation had been true , which celsus and iulian charged christianity with , viz. that it indulged men in the practice of vice , with the promise of a future happiness notwithstanding ; i know nothing could have rendred it more suspicious to be a design to deceive mankind . but so far is it from having the least foundation of truth in it , that as there never was any religion which gave men such certain hopes of a future felicity , and consequently more encouragement to be good , so there was none ever required it on those strict and severe terms which christianity doth . for there being two grand duties of men in this world , either towards god in the holiness of their hearts and lives , or towards their brethren , in a peaceable carriage among men ( which cannot be without justice and sobriety ) both these are enforced upon all christians , upon no meaner terms than the unavoidable loss of all the happiness our religion promises . follow peace with all men , and holiness , without which no man shall see the lord , heb. . . this is then the grand design of christianity , to make men happy in another world , by making them good and vertuous in this : it came to reform this world , that it might people another ; so to purifie the souls of men , as to make them meet to enjoy the happiness designed for them . this is that great salvation which the gospel brings to the world , heb. . . and thence it is called the word of salvation , acts . . the way of salvation , acts . . the gospel of salvation , ephes. . . so that though christianity be of unspeakable advantage to this world , there being no religion that tends so much to the peace of mens minds , and the preservation of civil societies as this doth ; yet all this it doth by way of subordination to the great end of it , which is the promoting mens eternal happiness . and the more we consider the vast consequence and importance of this end to mankind , the greater reason we shall find that st. paul had , why he should not be ashamed of the gospel of christ. for can we imagine any end more noble that any doctrine can aim at than this ? supposing the common principles of all religion to be true , viz. the being of god , and immortality of our souls , there can be nothing more becoming that god to discover , or those souls to be imployed about , than the way to a blessed immortality . and if we admire those discourses of the heathen philosophers , wherein they speak more darkly and obscurely concerning those things , what admiration doth the gospel deserve , which hath brought life and immortality to light ? if we commend the vertuous heathens , who according to those short and obscure notices which they had of god and themselves , sought to make the world any thing the better for their being in it , what infinitely greater esteem do those blessed apostles deserve , who accounted not their own lives dear to them that they might make even their enemies happy ? if those mens memories be dear to us who sacrifice their lives and fortunes for the sake of the country they belong to , shall not those be much more so who have done it for the good of the whole world ? such who chearfully suffered death while they were teaching men the way to an eternal life , and who patiently endured the flames , if they might but give the greater light to the world by them . such who did as far out-go any of the admired heroes of the heathens , as the purging the world from sin is of greater consequence than cleansing an augoean stable from the filth of it , and rescuing men from eternal flames is a more noble design than clearing a country from pyrats and robbers . nay , most of the heathen gods who were so solemnly worshipped in greece and at rome , owed their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to such slender benefits to mankind ; that sure the world was very barbarous or hugely gratefull , when they could think them no less than gods who found out such things for men : if a smith's forge , and a woman's distaffe , if teaching men the noble arts of fighting and cheating one another were such rare inventions , that they only became some of the most celebrated deities , which the grave and demure romans thought fit to worship ; sure st. paul had no cause to be ashamed of his religion among them , who had so much reason to be ashamed of their own ; since his design was to persuade them out of all the vanities and fooleries of their idolatrous worship , and to bring them to the service of the true and ever-living god , who had discovered so much goodness to the world in making his son a propitiation for the sins of it . and was not this a discovery infinitely greater and more suitable to the nature of god , than any which the subtilty of the greeks , or wisdom of the romans could ever pretend to concerning any of their deities ? thus we see the excellent end of our religion was that which made st. paul so far from being ashamed of it ; and so it would do all us too , if we did understand and value it as st. paul did . but it is the great dishonour of too many among us , that they are more ashamed of their religion than they are of their sins . if to talk boldly against heaven , to affront god in calling him to witness their great impieties by frequent oaths , to sin bravely and with the highest confidence , to mock at such who are yet more modest in their debaucheries , were not to be ashamed of the gospel of christ , we might find st. pauls enough in the age we live in , and it would be a piece of gallantry to be apostles . but this is rather the utmost endeavour to put religion out of countenance , and make the gospel it self blush and be ashamed , that ever such boldfaced impieties should be committed by men under the profession of it , as though they believed nothing so damnable as repentance and a holy life , and no sin so unpardonable as modesty in committing it . but to use st. paul's language when he had been describing such persons himself , heb. . . we are perswaded better things of you , and things that accompany that salvation the gospel was designed for , though we thus speak . for certainly nothing can argue a greater meanness of spirit , than whi●e wicked and profane persons are not ashamed of that which unavoidably tends to their ruine , and should be shy of the profession and practice of that which conduces to their eternal happiness . what is become of all that magnanimity and generous spirit which the primitive christistians were so remarkable for , if while some are impudent in sinning , others are ashamed of being or doing good ? if we have that value for our immortal souls , and a future life , which we ought to have , we shall not trouble our selves much with the atheistical scoffs and drollery of profane persons , who while they deride and despise religion , do but laugh themselves into eternal misery . and thus much for the first ground of st. paul's confidence , viz. the excellent end the gospel was design'd for . . the effectualness of it in order to that end . it is the power of god to salvation . wherein two things are imply'd . . the inefficacy of any other doctrine for that end . . the effectualness of the gospel in order to it . . the inefficacy of any other doctrine for this end of promoting the eternal salvation of mankind . if the world had been acquainted with any doctrine before which had been sufficient for the purposes the gospel was designed for , there would have been no such necessity of propagating it among men ; nor had there been reason enough to have justified the apostles in exposing themselves to so great hazards for the preaching of it . if the notion of an eternal god and providence , without the knowledge of a saviour , had been sufficient to reform the world , and make men happy ; it had not been consistent with the wisdom or goodness of god to have imploy'd so many persons , with the loss of their lives , to declare the doctrine of christ to the world. so that if christianity be true , it must be thought necessary to salvation , for the necessity of it was declared by those who were the instruments of confirming the truth of it . i meddle not with the case of those particular persons who had no means or opportunity to know god's revealed will , and yet from the principles of natural religion did reform their lives , in hopes of a future felicity ( if any such there were ) but whether there were not a necessity of such a doctrine as the gospel is to be discover'd to the world , in order to the reformation of it ? for some very few persons either through the goodness of their natures , the advantage of their education , or some cause of a higher nature , may have led more vertuous lives than others did ; but it is necessary , that what aims at the general good of mankind , must be suited to the capacities of all , and enforced with arguments which may prevail on any but the most obstinate and wilful persons . but when we consider the state of the world at that time when christianity was first made known to it , we may easily see how insufficient the common principles of religion were from working a reformation in it , when notwithstanding them mankind was so generally lapsed into idolatry and vice , that hardly any can be instanced in in the heathen world , who had escaped both of them . and there was so near an affinity between both these , that they who were ingaged in the rites of their idolatry , could hardly keep themselves free from the intanglements of vice ; not only because many of their villanies were practised as part of their religion , ( and there was little hopes certainly of their being good , who could not be religious without being bad but because the very gods they worship were represented to be as bad as themselves . and could they take any better measure of vertue , than from the actions of those whom they supposed to have so divine an excellency in them , as to deserve their adoration ? so that if there were a design of planting wickedness in the world ( which need not be , for it grows fast enough without it ) it could not be done more successfully than by worshipping those for gods , who did such things which good men would abhorr to think of . and yet this was the state of the world then , when the gospel was preached , and not only of the more rude and barbarous nations , but of the most civiliz●d and knowing people , as the romans themselves ; as our apostle at large proves in the remainder of this chap●er , wherein he shews , that though they had means enough of knowing the eternal god and providence , yet they were so fallen into idolatry , and the most vicious practices , that there was no means of recovering them , but by a fuller discovery both of the justice and goodness of god. i know it will be here objected , that though the generality of men were bad then ( as when were they otherwise ) yet the heathens had a kind of apostles among them , viz. the philosophers , who sought to amend the manners of men by the moral instructions they gave them ; so that if men were bad , it was not for want of good counsel , but for not observing it , which is all ( they say ) we have to say for our selves , when we are charged with the great debaucheries of the christian world . to which i answer , that our business is not now to enquire whe●her there hath not been an incomparably greater advantage to the world by christianity , in the reforming mens lives , than ever was by any of the heathen morals ; but whether these , taking them in the fairest dress , were so sufficient for the bringing men to eternal happiness , that there needed not any such doctrine as christianity , be published for that end ? and there are two great things we may charge the best of their discourses with an insufficiency in , for the accomplishment of this end , which are certainty , and motives , or the want of arguments to believe , and encouragements to practise . . they were destitute of sufficient certainty ; for what a man ventures his eternal state upon , he ought to be well assured of the truth of it . but how was it possible for the world to be reform'd by such wise apostles ( if they must be called so ) who are perpetually disputing among themselves about those things which were the most necessary ●oundations of all vertue and religion ? as though the best arguments they had to prove their souls immortal , was because their disputes about them were so . and those seemed among them to gain the greatest reputation for wit , who were best able to dispute against common principles ; and they managed their business with greatest advantage , who only shewed the weakness of others principles , but established none of their own ; which was an unavoidable consequence of the way they proceeded in , for offering at no such way of proof as christianity doth , they rather taught men to dispute , than to live eternally . besides , their discourses were too subtile and intricate for the common capacities of men ; how long might a man live before an entelechia would make him know the nature of his soul the better , or an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 perswade him to believe its immortality ? insomuch that it is hard to determine , whether the arguments used by them , did not rather hinder assent , than perswade to it ? and it seems probable that the honest minded illiterate heathens believed those things more firmly than the greatest philosophers . for plain truths lose much of their weight , when they are rarify'd into subtilties , and their strength is impaired when they are spun into too fine a thread . the arguments which must prevail with mankind , must be plain and evident , easie and yet powerful . the natural sense of good and evil in men is o●t-times dulled by disputes , and only awakned by a powerful representation of an infinite being , and a future judgment : and that by such a way of proof as all persons are equal judges of the truth and validity of it ; such as the resurrection of christ is in the gospel . . but let us suppose the arguments certain and suitable , yet what sufficient motives or encouragements could they give to lead a holy and vertuous life , who after all their endeavours to perswade others , remain'd so uncertain themselves as to a future happiness ? so tully tells us of socrates himself when he was just dying , that he told his friends , that only the gods knew whether it was fitter for men to live or die , but he thought no man did . and although some would excuse this as his usual way of disputing , yet of all times one would think it was fittest for him then to declare his mind in the most express terms , not only for the full vindication of himself , but for the comfort and encouragement of his friends . we are sure , christianity proceeds on those terms , that if a future happiness be supposed uncertain , it declares expresly there can be no sufficient reason given for men to part with the conveniencies of this present life ; nay , it supposes the best men to be the most miserable of all others , if there be not a future reward , cor. . . — . again , what probability was there they should ever perswade the world to vertue and goodness , when the severest of the philosophers , made it lie in things so repugnant to humane nature , as goodness is agreeable to it . as when they made it an equal fault for a man to be angry , and to murder his sovereign ; and that all passions are to be destroy'd , that pain and grief are nothing , that vertue in all conditions is a sufficient reward to it self : which are so contrary to the common sense of mankind , that the only way to perswade men to believe them , is first to perswade them they are not men . so that he was certainly the wisest man among the heathens , who concluded , that we ought to expect a higher master to teach us these things , and to acquaint us with the happiness of a future life . and hereby an answer may be given to porphyries grand objection against christian religion , viz. if it were so necessary for the good of mankind , why was it so long before it was discovered ? because god would thereby discover the insufficiency of all the means the wit of man could find out to reform the world , without this . that not only the iews might see the weakness of that dispensation they were under , but the gentile world might groan with an expectation of some more powerfull means to goodness than were yet among them . for when philosophy had been so long in its height , and had so little influence upon mankind , it was time for the son of righteousness to arise , and with the softning and healing influence of his beams to bring the world to a more vertuous temper . and that leads to the second thing implyed , which is the peculiar efficacy of the gospel for promoting mens salvation , for it is the power of god to salvation , and that will appear , by considering how many ways the power of god is engaged in it . these three especially . . in confirmation of the truth of it . . in the admirable effects of it in the world. . in the divine assistance which is promised to those who embrace it . . in confirmation of the truth of it . for the world was grown so uncertain , as to the grand foundations of religion , that the same power was requisite now to settle the world , which was at first for the framing of it . for though the precepts of christian religion be pure and easie , holy and suitable to the sense of mankind , though the promises be great and excellent , proportionable to our wants and the weight of our business , though the reward be such that it is easier to desire than comprehend it , yet all these would but seem to baffle the more the expectations of men , unless they were built on some extraordinary evidence of divine power . and such we assert there was in the confirmation of these things to us , not only in the miraculous birth of our saviour , and that continual series of unparallel'd miracles in his life , not only in the most obliging circumstances of his death ; not only in the large effusion of divine gifts upon his apostles , and the strange propagation of christian religion by them against all humane power ; but that which i shall particularly instance in , as the great effect of divine power , and confirmation of our religion , was his resurrection from the dead . for , as our apostle saith , rom. . . christ was declared to be the son of god with power according to the spirit of holiness , by the resurrection from the dead . no way of evidence could be more suitable to the capacities of all , than this , it being a plain matter of fact ; none ever better attested than this was , not only by the unanimous consent of all the witnesses , but by their constant adhering to the truth of it , though it cost almost all of them their lives ; and no greater evidence could be given to the world of a divine power , since both iews and gentiles agreed in this , that such a thing could not be effected but by an immediate hand of god. so far were they then from thinking a resurrection possible by the juice of herbs , or an infusion of warm blood into the veins , or by the breath of living creatures , as the great martyr for atheism would seem from pliny to perswade us ; when yet certainly nothing can be o● higher concernment to those who believe not another life , than to have tried this experiment long ere now ; and since nothing of that nature hath ever happened since our saviour's resurrection , it only lets us know what credulous men in other things the greatest infidels as to religion are . but so far were they at that time from so fond an imagination , that they readily yielded , that none but god could do it , tho' they seem'd to question whether god himself could do it or no. as appears by the apostle's interrogation , why should it be thought a thing incredible with you , that god should raise the dead ? act. . . this was therefore judged on both sides to be a matter of so great importance , that all the disputes concerning christian religion were resolved into this . whether christ were risen from the dead ? and this the apo●tles urge and insist on , upon all occasions , as the great evidence of the truth of his doctrine , and this was the main part of their commission , for they were sent abroad to be witnesses of his resurrection . which was not designed by god as a thing strange and incredible to puzzle mankind with , but to give the highest assurance imaginable to the world of the truth and importance of christianity . since god was pleased to imploy his power in so high a manner to confirm the certainty of it . . god's power was seen in the admirable effects of christian religion upon the minds of men : which was most discernable by the strange alteration it soon made in the state of the world . in iudoea soon after the death of christ , some of his crucifiers become christians , converts made at one sermon of st. peter's , and great accessions made afterwards both in hierusalem and other places . yea in all parts of the roman empire , where the christians came , they so increased and multiplied , that thereby it appeared that god had given a benediction to his new creation suitable to what he gave to the first . so that within the compass of not a hundred years after our saviour's death , the world might admire to see it self so strangely changed from what it was . the temple at hierusalem destroy'd , and the iews under a sadder dispersion than ever , and rendred uncapable of continuing their former worship of god there : the heathen temples unfrequented , the gods derided , the oracles ceased , the philosophers puzzled , the magistrates disheartned by their fruitless cruelties , and all this done by a few christians who came and preached to the world righteousness , temperance , and a iudgment to come , whereof god had given assurance to the world , by raising one iesus from the dead . and all this effected not by the power of wit and eloquence , not by the force and violence of rebellious subjects , not by men of hot and giddy brains , but by men sober , just , humble and meek in all their carriages , but withal such as might never have been heard of in the world , had not this doctrine made them famous . what could this then be imputed to less than a divine power , which by effectual and secret ways carries on its own design against all the force and wit of men . so that the wise gamaliel , at whose feet st. paul was bred , seem'd to have the truest apprehensions of these things at that time , when he told the sanhedrin , if this counsel , or this work be of men , it will come to nought , but if it be of god , ye cannot overthrow it , lest haply ye be found to fight against god. act. . , . . in the divine assistance which is promised to those who embrace it : in which respect it is properly the power of god to salvation ; and therein far beyond what the philosophers could promise to any who embraced their opinions . for , the gospel doth not only discover the necessity of a principle superiour to nature , which we call grace , in order to the fitting our souls for their future happiness , but likewise shews on what terms god is pleased to bestow it on men , viz. on the consideration of the death and passion of our lord and saviour . not by works of righteousness which we have done , but according to his mercy he saved us by the washing of regeneration , and renewing of the holy ghost , which he shed on us abundantly through christ our saviour , titus . . there being nothing in humane nature which could oblige god , to give to mankind that assistance of his grace whereby they are enabled to work out this salvation the gospel is designed for , with fear and trembling . the whole tenor of the gospel importing a divine power which doth accompany the preaching of it , which is designed on purpose to heal the wounds , and help the weakness of our depraved and degenerate nature . through which we may be kept to salvation : but it must be through faith , pet. . . . which is the last particular of the words ; the necessity of believing the gospel in order to the partaking of the salvation promised in it ; it is the power of god to salvation to every one that believes , to the iew first , and also to the greek . an easie way of salvation , if no more were required to mens happiness but a fancy and strong opinion which they will easily call believing . so there were some in st. augustin's time , i could wish there were none in ours , who thought nothing necessary to salvation but a strong faith , let their lives be what they pleased . but this is so repugnant to the main design of christian religion , that they who think themselves the strongest believers , are certainly the weakest , and most ungrounded . for they believe scarce any other proposition in the new testament , but that whosoever believeth shall be saved . if they did believe that christ came into the world to reform it , and make it better , that the wrath of god is now revealed from heaven against all unrighteousness , as well as that the just by faith shall live , that the design of all that love of christ , which is shewn to the world , is to deliver them from the hand of their enemies , that they might serve him in righteousness and holiness all the days of their lives , they could never imagine , that salvation is entailed by the gospel on a mighty confidence or vehement perswasion of what christ hath done and suffer'd for them . and so far is st. paul from asserting this , that as far as i can see , he never meddles with a matter of that nicety , whether a single act of faith be the condition of our justification as it is distinguished from evangelical obedience , but his discourse runs upon this subject ; whether god will pardon the sins of men upon any other terms than those which are declared in the christian religion , the former he calls works , and the latter faith. i know , the subtilty of later times hath made st. paul dispute in the matter of justification , not as one bred up at the feet of gamaliel , but of the master of the sentences ; but men did not then understand their religion at all the worse because it was plain and easie ; and , it may be , if others since had understood their religion better , there would never have needed so much subtilty to explain it , nor so many distinctions to defend it . the apostle makes the same terms of justification and of salvation , for as he saith elsewhere , (a) we are justified by faith , he saith here , the gospel is the power of god to salvation to every one that believes ; if therefore a single act of faith be sufficient for one , why not for the other also ? but if believing here be taken in a more large and comprehensive sense , as a complex act relating to our undertaking the conditions of the gosspel ; why should it not be taken so in the subsequent discourse of the apostle ? for we are to observe that st. paul in this epistle is not disputing against any sort of christians that thought to be saved by their obedience to the gospel from the assistance of divine grace ; but against those who thought the grace and indulgence of the gospel by no means necessary in order to the pardon of their sins , and their eternal happiness . two things therefore the apostle mainly designs to prove in the beginning of it : first , the insufficiency of any other way of salvation besides that offer'd by the gospel ; whether it were the light of nature which the gentiles contended for , but were far from living according to it ; or that imaginary covenant of works , which the iews fancied to themselves ( for it will be a very hard matter to prove that ever god entred into a covenant of works with fallen man , which he knew it was impossible for him to observe ) but they were so highly opinionated of themselves , and of those legal observations which were among them , that they thought by vertue of them they could merit so much favour at god's hands , that there was no need of any other sacrifice , but what was among themselves to expiate the guilt of all their sins . and on that account they rejected the gospel , as the apostle tells us , (a) that they being ignorant of god's righteousness , and going about to establish their own righteousness , have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of god. against these therefore the apostle proves , that if they hoped for happiness upon such strict terms , they laid only a foundation of (a) boasting if they did all which god required , but of misery if they did not ; for then (b) cursed is every one that continues not in every thing written in the law to do it , i. e. if they failed in any one thing , then they must fail of all their hopes ; but such a state of perfection being impossible to humane nature , he shews , that either all mankind must unavoidably perish , or they must be saved by the grace and favour of god , which he proves to be discovered by the gospel : and that god will now accept of a hearty and sincere obedience to his will declared by his son ; so that all those who perform that , though they live not in the nice observance of the law of moses , shall not need to fear the penalty of their sins in another life . which is the second thing he designs to prove , viz. that those who obeyed the gospel , whether iew or greek , were equally capable of salvation by it . (c) for , saith he , is god the god of the iews only ? is he not also of the gentiles ? yes , of the gentiles also : because both iew and gentile were to be justified upon the same terms , as he proves afterwards . so that gods justifying of us by the gospel , is the solemn declaration of himself upon what terms he will pardon the sins of men ; that is , deliver them from the penalties they have deserved by them . for the actual discharge of the person is reserved to the great day ; all the justification we have here is only declarative from god , but so as to give a right to us , by vertue whereof we are assured , that god will not only not exercise his utmost rigour , but shew all favour and kindness to those , who by belief of the gospel do repent and obey . god doth now remit sin as he forbears to punish it ; he remits the sinner as he assures him by the death of christ he will not punish upon his re-repentance ; but he fully remits both , when he delivers the person upon the tryal of the great day , from all the penalties which he hath deserved by his sins . so that our compleat justification and salvation go both upon the same terms , and the same faith which is sufficient for one , must be sufficient for the other also . what care then ought men to take , lest by mis-understanding the notion of believing , so much spoken of as the condition of our salvation , they live in a neglect of that holy obedience which the gospel requires , and so believe themselves into eternal misery . but as long as men make their obedience necessary , though but as the fruit and effect of faith , it shall not want its reward : for those , whose hearts are purified by faith shall never be condemned for mistaking the notion of it ; and they who live as those that are to be judged according to their works , shall not miss their reward , though they do not think they shall receive it for them . but such who make no other condition of the gospel but believing , and will scarce allow that to be called a condition , ought to have a great care to keep their hearts sounder than their heads , for their only security will lie in this , that they are good though they see no necessity of being so . and such of all others , i grant , have reason to acknowledge the irresistable power of divine grace , which enables them to obey the will of god against the dictates of their own judgments . but thanks be to god , who hath so abundantly provided for all the infirmities of humane nature , by the large offers of his grace , and assistance of his spirit , that though we meet with so much opposition without , and so much weakness within , and so many discouragements on every side of us ; yet if we sincerely apply our selves to do the will of god , we have as great assurance as may be , that we shall be kept by the power of god through faith unto salvation . sermon v. preached at white-hall . hebrews ii. . how shall we escape , if we neglect so great salvation ? when the wise and eternal counsels of heaven concerning the salvation of mankind by the death of the son of god , were first declared to the world by his own appearance and preaching in it ▪ nothing could be more reasonably expected , than that the dignity of his person , the authority of his doctrine , and the excellency of his life , should have perswaded those whom he appeared among , to such an admiration of his person , and belief of his doctrine , as might have led them to an imitation of him in the holiness of his life and conversation . for if either the worth of the person , or the importance of the message might prevail any thing towards a kind and honourable reception among men ; there was never any person appeared in any degree comparable to him , never any message declared which might challenge so welcome an entertainment ●rom men , as that was which he came upon . if to give mankind the highest assurance of a state of life and immortality , if to offer the pardon of sin , and reconciliation with god upon the most easie and reasonable terms , if to purge the degenerate world from all its impurities by a doctrine as holy as the author of it ; were things as becoming the son of god to reveal , as the sons of men to receive : nothing can be more unaccountable than that his person should be despised , his authority slighted , and his doctrine contemned . and that by those whose interest was more concerned in the consequence of these things , than himself could be in all the affronts and injuries he underwent from men : for the more the indignities , the greater the shame , the sharper the su●ferings which he did undergo , the higher was the honour and glory which he was advanced to : but the more obliging the instances of his kindness were , the greater the salvation that was tendred by him , the more prevailing the motives were for the entertainment of his doctrine , the more exemplary and severe will the punishment be of all those who reject it . for it is very agreeable to those eternal laws of justice by which god governs the world , that the punishment should arise proportionably to the greatness of the mercies despised : and therefore although the scripture be very sparing in telling us what the state of those persons shall be in another life who never heard of the gospel ; yet for those who do , and despise it , it tells us plainly , that an eternal misery is the just desert of those to whom an eternal happiness was offered , and yet neglected by them . and we are the rather told of it , that men may not think it a surprize in the life to come ; or that if they had known the danger , they would have escaped it ; and therefore our blessed saviour , who never mention'd punishment but with a design to keep men from it , declares it frequently , that the punishment of those persons and places would be most intolerable , who have received , but not improved the light of the gospel : and that it would be more (a) tolerable for the persons who had offered violence to nature , and had hell-fire burning in their hearts by their horrid impurities , than for those who heard the doctrine , and saw the miracles of christ , and were much the worse , rather than any thing the better for it . but lest we should think that all this black scene of misery was only designed for those who were the actors in that dolefull tragedy of our saviour's sufferings : we are told by those who were best able to assure us of it , that the same dismal consequences will attend all the affronts of his doctrine , as if they had been offered to his own person . for it is nothing but the common flattery and self-deceit of humane nature , which makes any imagine , that though they do not now either believe or obey the gospel ; they should have done both , if they had heard our saviour speak as never man spake , and seen him do what never man did : for the same disposition of mind which makes them now slight that doctrine which is delivered to them by them that heard him , would have made them slight the person as well as the doctrine , if they had heard it from himself . and therefore it is but reasonable that the same punishment should belong to both ; especially since god hath provided so abundantly for the assurance of our faith , by the miraculous and powerfull demonstration of that divine spirit which did accompany those who were the first publishers of this doctrine to the world . and therefore the author of this epistle , after he hath in the words of the text declared , that it is impossible to escape , if we neglect the great salvation offered us by the gospel ; in the following words he gives us that account of it , that at first it began to be spoken by the lord , and was confirmed to us by them that heard him : god also bearing them witness both with signs and wonders , and divers miracles , and gifts of the holy ghost , according to his own will. so that the miraculous gifts of the holy ghost , falling upon the apostles , and the many signs and wonders which were wrought by them , were the great testimony of god to the world , that these were the persons imployed by himself to decla●e that doctrine whereon the eternal salvation of mankind did depend . and since we have so lately acknowledged the truth of this testimony which god gave to the apostles , by the solemn celebration of that glorious descent of the holy ghost upon them on the day of pentecost , that which naturally follows from it is , the great care we ought to take , lest we be found guilty of neglecting that great salvation which is offered to us in that doctrine which was attested in so eminent a manner by god himself ; and that from the consideration of our own danger ; for how shall we escape , if we neglect so great salvation ? wherein are three things considerable : . the care god hath taken to make us happy , by offering so great salvation to us . . the care we ought to take in order to our own happiness , not to neglect the offers which god hath made us . . the unavoidable punishment which those do incur who are guilty of this neglect . how shall we escape ? i need not tell this auditory how forcible the negative is , which is expressed by such an interrogation which appeals to the judgment of all who hear it , and so relies not upon the bare authority of the speaker , but upon the plain evidence of the thing , which others were judges of as well as himself . as though he had said , if you slight and disesteem the gospel of christ , upon whatever grounds ye do it , if either through too great an opinion of the wisdom of this world you despise it as vain and useless , if through too mean an opinion of the excellency of christianity , you reject it either as uncertain in its theory , or impossible in its practice ; or if through too great a love of the pleasures of sin , or a secure and careless temper of mind , you regard not the doing what christianity requires to make you happy ; think with your selves , what way you can find to escape the wrath of god ; for my part , i know of none ; for if god were so severe against the violation of a far meaner institution , viz. of the law of moses , insomuch that every contempt and disobedience did receive a just recompence of reward , how shall we escape who neglect so great salvation ? or as the apostle elsewhere argues to the same purpose . (a) he that despised moses law , died without mercy under two or three witnesses ; of how much sorer punishment suppose ye shall he be thought worthy , who hath trodden under foot the son of god , and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing , and hath done despite unto the spirit of grace ? this is a sad subject , but i am afraid too necessary to be spoken to in the age we live in ; wherein men seem to be in apprehensive of the danger of inwardly despising the religion they profess to own , and the neglecting of that which they hope to be saved by . it is strange that it should be so , but much more strange that men should think to do so , and not be called to an account for it . it is not only the gross and open sinner , that defies heaven , and by his oaths and blasphemies dares god to shew his power and justice upon him ; but the slie and self-deceiving hypocrite , that hates religion while he thinks he loves it ; that in his heart contemns it , but is afraid to know that he does so , that ought to be possessed with a truer sense of religion , and a greater dread of the issue of the contempt or neglect of it . there is some appearance of ingenuity in an open enmity ; but none so dangerous as that which hides it self under the disguise of friendship . in our saviours time there were several ●orts of those who shewed their dis-esteem of him , some that were so enraged against him , that they contrive all ways for his disgrace and punishment , others could hear him with patience , (a) but the cares of this world , the deceitfulness of riches , and the lust of other things choaked and stifled all good apprehensions of him , that they became weak and ineffectual . and those were guilty of making light of the marriage-feast because of other business which they had to mind , matth. . . as well as those who offered all the injuries and affronts to his servants that invited them , v. . and as it was in the days of our saviour , so it is now ; some were eating and drinking , minding nothing but the vain and sensual pleasures of the world ; some were buying and selling , so busie in this world , that they had no leasure to think of being happy in another ; some were deriding and blaspheming ; but all these too wise , or too vain , or too profane to mind the offers of eternal salvation . i wish we could say it were otherwise now , that a sensual and voluptuous , an easie and a careless life in some , that ambition and the restless pursuit after the honour and riches of the world in others , that a profane wit , and a contempt of all that is serious in those that think themselves too great to be religious , did not enervate the force of christianity upon their minds , and make them all , though upon different grounds , agree in the neglect of their own salvation . but is the case of such men grown so desperate that no remedy can work upon them ? hath the love of sin and the world so far intoxicated them , that no reason or consideration whatever can awaken them ? have they hardned themselves against all the power of divine truths with a resolution as strong as death , and as cruel as the grave whither they are going ? will neither the love of happiness , nor the fear of misery , their own interest , and the wisdom of avoiding so great a danger , the dread of the majesty and power of god , and the horror of the great day , prevail at least so far on men to consider , whether these things be true or no ; and if they be , what unspeakable folly it is to neglect them ? and the better to make that appear , i shall prove these following things : . that god by the gospel hath taken so great care of mens happiness , that nothing but a gross neglect can make them miserable . . that nothing can be more unreasonable , than when god hath taken so much care of it , men should neglect it themselves . . that it is very just for god to vindicate himself against so gross a neglect , by the severe punishments of the life to come . . that god by the gospel hath taken so great care of mens salvation , that nothing but a gross neglect can make them miserable . for , whatever the mind of man can imagine necessary in order to its own happiness , in its present fallen and degenerate condition , is abundantly provided for by the gospel of christ. for , man was so wholly lost as to his own felicity , that among the ruins and decays of his nature , he could not pick up so much as the perfect image and idea of his own happiness ; when he reflects upon himself , he finds himself such a confused mass of folly and weakness , that he can never imagine that so noble a design should have its ground-work laid upon so course a being . and rather than believe the foundation of his happiness to be within himself , there is nothing so vain and trifling without him , but he is ready to fall down before it , and cry out , here i place my felicity . sometimes he admires the brave shews , and the pomp and gallantry of the world , and thinks nothing comparable to a glorious outside , and a great train of attendants sometimes he raises himself , and flutters upon the wings of a popular air , till a cross blast comes and leaves him in the common rout : sometimes his eyes ar● dazled with the glory of the more refined and solid pieces of that earth out o● which he was framed , and thinks it reasonable , that the softness of flesh and blood , should yield to the impressions o● silver and gold ; sometimes he even envies the pleasures of the brutes , and if i● were possible would outdo them in their grossest sensualities : sometimes again he flatters himself , and then adores his own imperfections , and thinks his passi●ns , honour ; and his profaneness , wit. so far vain man from making himself happy that the first step to it , is to make hi● understand what it is to be so . but supposing that the true image of his happ●ness should drop down from heaven and by the place from whence it fel● should c●nclude where the thing it 〈◊〉 is to be sound ; yet this were only t● make him more miserable , unless 〈◊〉 withal knew how to come thither . h● is sure not to climb up to it by the top of the highest mountains , nor to be caried thither upon the wings of a might● wind , he hath no fiery chariots at his command to ascend with to the glories above : b●t only he that maketh his angels spirits , and his ministers a flame of fire , is able to preserve the souls of men from vanishing into the so●t air , and to conduct them to the mansions of eternal bliss . it is he only that can make them capable of the joys of another life , by purging them from the stains and the pollutions of this . and therefore without his grace and favour ever to hope for the happiness of heaven , must be by fancying a heaven to be there , where there is no god. so that it is necessary , that the proposals of this salvation must come from the author of it , and that with such arguments as may perswade men of the truth of it , and with such motives as may encourage men to accept of them . now the gospel of christ affords us all these things which are necessary to our happiness ; there we have the most agreeable and setled notion and idea of it , the most large and free offers of divine goodness in order to it , the greatest assurance that these things did immediately proceed from god , and the most encouraging motives to accept of these offers in order to that great salvation which is tendred to us . . we have the most agreeable and setled notion of true happiness : not such a mean and uncertain thing which lies at the mercy of the continual vicissitudes and contingencies of this present state , but that which is able to bear up the mind of man against all the troubles of this life , and to carry him to a region beyond them all , where there is a fulness of joy without an allay of sadness after it , and ever-flowing rivers of pleasures that need no dams to make them rise higher , nor falls to make their motion perceived . our blessed saviour never flatters his followers with the expectation of a felicity in this life ; contentment is the most he hath promised them , and that they may enjoy , if they follow his directions , let this world be what it will , and do what it pleases with them . he never tells his disciples they may have satisfaction here if they lie upon their beds of down with their heads full of tormenting cares , that the pleasure of humane life lies in the gratifications of the senses , and in making what use they can of the world ; he never deceives them with the promise of so poor a happiness as that which depends upon health , friends , prosperity , and having our own wills . no , but he tells them of a more noble and generous felicity , that will preserve its own state and grandeur in spight of the world ; a happiness consistent with loss of estate , loss of friends , with affronts and injuries , with persecutions , and death it self . for when our saviour begins to discourse of happiness , what another kind of strain doth he speak of it in , than any of those philosophers who have so much ob●●ructed the happiness of mans life by their voluminous writings and contentions about it . here we meet with no epicurean softness , which the sense of true vertue carried the minds of the more noble heathens above ; no rigid and incredible stoical paradoxes , that make men only happy by the change of names ; no aristotelian supposition of a prosperous life for vertue to shew its power in ; but here the only supposition made , is that which lies in a mans own breast , viz true goodness ; and then let his condition be what it will , his happiness is consistent with it . for those above all other persons whom our saviour calls blessed , in the beginning of that excellent abstract of christianity , his sermon on the mount , are , not the rich and great men of the world , but those who to the poverty of their condition add that (a) of their spirits too , by being contented with the state they are in ; not those , who are full of mirth and jollity , that laugh away one half of their time , and sleep the rest ; but they who are (b) in a mournful condition , either by reason of their own sorrows , or out of compassion to others , or out of a general sense of their own imperfections , or the inconstancy of our present state : not those , who are ready enough to give , but unable to bear affronts , that think the lives of men a sacrifice small enough for any words of disgrace which they have given them ; but (c) the meek and patient spirit , that is neither apt to provoke , nor in a rage and madness when it is ; that values the rules of christianity above all the barbarous punctilioes of honour . not those , who are as impetuous in the pursuit of their designs , and as eager of tasting the fruits of them , as the thirsty traveller in the sands of arabia is of drinking the waters of a pleasant spring : but such who make (d) righteousness and goodness their meat and drink , that which they hunger and thirst after , and take as much pleasure in as the most voluptuous epicure in his greatest dainties : not those , whose malice goes beyond their power , and want only enough of that to make the whole world a slaughter-house , and account racks and torments among the necessary instruments of governing the world ; (a) but such , who when their enemies are in their power , will not torment themselves by cruelty to them , but have such a sense of common humanity , as not only to commend pity and good nature to those above them , but to use it to those who are under them . not those whose hearts are as full of dissimulation and hypocrisie , as the others hands are of blood and violence , that care not what they are , so they may but seem to be good : but such whose inward integrity and (b) purity of heart , far exceeds the outward shew and profession of it : who honour goodness for it self , and not for the glory which is about the head of it . not those , who neuer think the breaches of the world wide enough till there be a door large enough for their own interests to go in at by them ; that would rather see the world burning , than one peg be taken out of their chariot-wheels : but such who would sacrifice themselves , like the brave (a) roman , to fill up the wide gulf which mens contentions have made in the world ; and think no legacy ought to be preserved more inviolable than that of peace , which our saviour lest to his disciples . lastly , not those , who will do any thing rather than suffer , or if they suffer it shall be for any thing rather than (b) righteousness , to uphold a party , or maintain a discontented faction ; but such , who never complain of the hardness of their way , as long as they are sure it is that of righteousness ; but if they meet with reproaches and persecutions in it , they welcome them , as the harbingers of their future reward , the expectation of which makes the worst condition not only tolerable but easie to them . thus we see what kind of happiness it is , which the gospel promises ; not such a one as rises out of the dust , or is tost up and down with the motion of it ; but such whose never-failing fountain is above , and whither those small rivulets return , which fall down upon earth to refresh the minds of men in their passage thither ; but while they continue here , as the iews say of the water that came out of the rock , it follows them while they travel through this wilderness below . so that the foundation of a christians happiness is the expectation of a life to come , which expectation having so firm a bottom , as the assurance which christ hath given us by his death and sufferings , it hath power and influence sufficient to bear up the minds of men , against all the vicissitudes of this present state . . we have the most large and free offers of divine goodness in order to it . were it as easie for man to govern his own passions , as to know that he ought to do it ; were the impressions of reason and religion as powerful with mankind as those of folly and wickedness are , we should never need complain much of the misery of our present state , or have any cause to fear a worse to come . there would then be no condition here but what might be born with satisfaction to ones own mind ; and the life one day led according to the principles of vertue and goodness would be preferred before a sinning immortality . but we have lost the command of our selves , and therefore our passions govern us ; and as long as such furies drive us , no wonder if our ease be little . when men began first to leave the uncertain speculations of nature , and found themselves so out of order , that they thought the great care ought to be to regulate their own actions ; how soon did their passions discover themselves about the way to govern them ! and they all agreed in this , that there was great need to do it , and that it was impossible to do it without the principles of vertue ; (a) for never was there any philosopher so bad , as to think any man could be happy without vertue ; even the epicureans themselves acknowledged it for one of their established maxims , that no man could live a pleasant life without being good : and supposing the multiplication of sects of philosophers about these things as far as varro thought it possible to . ( although there never were so many , nor really could be upon his own grounds ) yet not one of all these but made it necessary to be vertuous , in order to being happy ; and those who did not think vertue to be desired for it self , yet made it a necessary means for the true pleasure and happiness of our lives . but when they were agreed in this , that it was impossible for a vitious man to enjoy any true contentment of mind ; they fell into nice and subtle disputes about the names and order of things to be chosen ; and so lost the great effect of all their common principles . they pretended great cures for the disorders of mens lives , and excellent remedies against the common distempers of humane nature , but still the disease grew under the remedy , and their applications were too weak to allay the fury of their passions . it was neither the order and good of the universe , nor the necessity of events , nor the things being out of our power , nor the common condition of humanity , no nor that comfort of ill natured men , as carneades call'd it , the many companions we have in misery , that could keep their passions from breaking out when a great occasion was presented them . for he who had read all their discourses carefully , and was a great man himself , i mean cicero , upon the death of his beloved daughter , was so far from being comforted by them , that he was fain to write a consolation for himself , in which the greatest cure ( it may be ) was the diversion he found in writing it . but supposing these things had gone much farther , and that all wise men could have governed their passions as to the troubles of this life ( and certainly the truest wisdom lies in th●t ) yet what had all this been to a prepararation for an eternal state , which they knew little of , and minded less ? all their discourses about a happy life here , were vain , and contradicted by themselves ; when , after all their rants about their wise man being happy in the bull of phalaris , &c. they yet allow'd him to dispatch himself if he saw cause , which a wise man would never do , if he thought himself happy when he did it . so that unless god himself had given assurance of a life to come , by the greatest demonstrations of it in the death and resurrection of his son ; all the considerations whatever could never have made mankind happy . but by the gospel he hath taken away all suspicions and doubts concerning another state , and hath declared his own readiness to be reconciled to us upon our repentance , to pardon what hath been done amiss , and to give that divine assistance whereby our wills may be governed , and our passions subdued , and upon a submission of our selves to his wise providence , and a sincere obedience to his laws , he hath promised eternal salvation in the life to come . . god hath given us the greatest assurance that these offers came from himself ; which the apostle gives an account of here , saying , that this salvation began at first to be spoken by our lord , and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him , god also bearing them witness by signs and wonders , &c. wherein we have all the satisfaction which the minds of reasonable men could desire as to these things : it might be justly expected , that the messenger of so great news to the world should be no mean and ordinary person ; neither was he , for the honour was as great in the person who brought it , as the importance was in the thing it self : no less than the eternal son of god came down from the bosom of his father , to rectifie the mistakes of mankind , and not only to shew them the way to be happy , but by the most powerful arguments to perswade them to be so . nay , we find all the three persons of the trinity here engaged in the great work of mans salvation ; it was first spoken by our lord , god also bearing them witness , and that with divers miracles and gifts of the holy ghost . so that not only the first revelation was from god , but the testimony to confirm that it was so , was from him too ; there being never so clear an attestation of any divine truths as was of the gospel . from whence it follows , that the foundation whereon our faith stands , is nothing short of a divine testimony , which god gave to the truth of that revelation of his will ; so vain are the cavils of those who say , we have nothing but meer probabilities for our faith , and do interpret that manner of proof which matters of fact are capable of , in a sense derogatory to the firmness of our christian faith. as tho' we made the spirit of god a paraclete or advocate in the worst sense , which might as well plead a bad as a good cause . no , we acknowledge , that god himself did bear witness to that doctrine deliver'd by our lord , and that in a mo●t signal and effectual manner , for the conviction of the world , by those demon●●rations of a divine power which accompanied the first preachers of salvation by the gospel of christ. so that here the apostle briefly and clearly resolves our faith ; if you ask , why we believe that great salvation which the gospel of●ers ? the an●wer is , because it was declared by our lord , who neither could nor woul● deceive us : if it be asked , how we know that this was delivered by our lord ? he answers , because this was the constant doctrine of all his disciples , of those who constantly heard him , and conversed with him . but if you ask again , how can we know , that their testimony was infallible , since they were but men ? he then resolves all into that , that god bare witness to them by signs and wonders , and divers miracles , and gifts of the holy ghost . and those persons whom these arguments will not convince , none other will. who are we , that should not think that sufficient which god himself thought so ! who are we , that dare question the certainty of that which hath had the broad seal of heaven to attest it ! can any thing make it surer than god himself hath done ? and can there be any other way more effectual for that end , than those demonstrations of a divine power and presence which the apostles were acted by ? those that cavil at this way of proof , would have done so at any other , if god had made choice of it : and those who will cavil at any thing , are resolved to be convinced by nothing ; and such are not fit to be discoursed with . . here are the most prevailing motives to perswade them to accept of these offers of salvation . there are two passions , which are the great hinges of government , viz. mens hopes and fears , and therefore all laws have had their sanctions suitable to these two in rewards and punishments : now there was never any reward which gave greater encouragement to hope , never any punishment which made fear more reasonable than those are which the gospel proposes . will ever that man be good , whom the hopes of heaven will not make so ? or will ever that man leave his sins whom the fears of hell will not make to do it ? what other arguments can we imagine should ever have that power and influence on mankind , which these may be reasonably supposed to have ? would you have god alter the methods of his providence , and give his rewards and punishments in this life ? but if so , what exercise would there be of the patience , forbearance and goodness of god towards wicked men ? must he do it as soon as ever men sin ? then he would never try whether they would repent and grow better : or must he stay till they have come to such a height of sin ? then no persons would have cause to fear him , but such who are arrived at that pitch of wickedness : but how then should he punish them ? must it be by continuing their lives , and making them miserable ? but let them live , and they will sin yet further : must it be by utterly destroying them ? that to persons , who might have time to sin the mean while , ( supposing annihilation were all to be fear'd ) would never have power enough to deter men from the height of their wickedness . so that nothing but the misery of a life to come , can be of force enough to make men fear god , and regard themselves ; and this is that which the gospel threatens to those that neglect their salvation , which it sometimes calls (a) everlasting fire , sometimes (b) the worm that never dies , sometimes (c) the wrath to come , sometimes (d) everlasting destruction , all enough to fill the minds of men with horror at the apprehension ; and what then will the undergoing it do ? thence our saviour reasonably bids men , (e) not fear them that can only kill the body , but are not able to kill the soul ; but rather fear him which is able to destroy both body and soul in hell . thus the gospel suggests the most proper object of fear , to keep men from sin , and as it doth that , so it presents likewise the most desireable object of hope to encourage men to be good ; which is no less than a happiness that is easier to hope to enjoy than to comprehend ; a happiness infinitely above the most ambitious hopes and glories of this world ; wherein greatness is added to glory , weight to greatness , and eternity to them all ; therefore call'd (a) a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory . wherein the joys shall be full and constant , the perception clear and undisturbed , the fruition with continual delight and continual desire . where there shall be no fears to disquiet , no enemies to allarm , no dangers to conquer , nothing shall then be , but an uninterrupted peace , an unexpressible joy , and pleasures for evermore . and what could be ever imagined more satisfactory to minds tired out with the vanities of this world , than such a repose as that is ? what more agreeable to the minds and desires of good men , than to be eased of this clog of flesh , and to spend eternity with the fountain of all goodness , and the spirits of just men made perfect ? what more ravishing delight to the souls that are purged , and (b) made glorious by the blood of the lamb , than to be singing hallelujahs to him that sits upon the throne , and to the lamb for ever and ever ? how poor and low things are those which men hope for in this world , compared with that great salvation , which the gospel makes so free a tender of ? what a mean thing is it to be great in this world , to be honourable and rich , i. e. to be made the object of the envy of some , the malice of others , and at last it may be , an instance of this world's vanity ; and after all this to be for ever miserable ? but o the wisdom of a well-chosen happiness , that carries a man with contentment and peace through this life , and at last rewards him with a crown of everlasting felicity . thus we see the gospel proposes the most excellent means to make men happy , if they be not guilty of a gross neglect of it ; and if they be , that is their own act , and they must thank none but themselves if they be miserable . . but i pray , what reason can be given , since god is so tender of our happiness , that we should neglect it our selves ? which is the next thing to be spoken to . there are three sorts of things we think we have reason to neglect : such as are too mean , and unworthy our care , such as are so uncertain , that they will not recompence it , such as our own interest is not at all concerned in ; but i hope there are none who have an immortal soul , and the use of their understandings , can ever reckon their salvation under one of these . . is it too mean an employment for you to mind the matters of your eternal welfare ? is religion a beggarly and contemptible thing , that it doth not become the greatness of your minds to stoop to take any notice of it ? hath god lost his honour so much with you , that his service should be the object of mens scorn and contempt ? but what is it which these brave spirits think a fit emplo●ment for themselves , while they despise god and his worship ? is it to be curiously dressed , and make a fine shew , to think the time better spent at the glass than at their devotions ? these indeed are weighty imployments , and fit in the first place to be minded , if we were made only to be gazed upon . is it meerly to see plays , and read romances , and to be great admirers of that vain and frothy discourse which all persons account wit but those which have it ? this is such an end of man's life which no philosopher ever thought of . or is it to spend time in excesses and debaucheries , and to be slaves to as many lusts as will command them ? this were something indeed , if we had any other name given us but that of men. or lastly , is it to have their minds taken up with the great affairs of the world , to be wise in considering , carefull in managing the publick interest of a nation ? this is an employment , i grant , fit for the greatest minds , but not such which need at all to take them off from minding their eternal salvation . for the greatest wisdom is consistent with that , else religion would be accounted folly , and i take it for granted , that it is never the truly wise man but the pretender that entertains any mean thoughts of religion . and such a one uses the publick interest no better than he doth religion , only for a shew to the world , that he may carry on his own designs the better . and is this really such a valuable thing for a man to be contented to cheat himself of his eternal happiness , that he may be able to cheat the world , and abuse his trust ? i appeal then to the consciences of all such who have any sense of humanity , and the common interest of mankind , setting aside the considerations of a life to come , whether to be just and sober , vertuous and good , be not more suitable to the design of humane nature , than all the vanities and excesses , all the little arts and designs which men art apt to please themselves with ? and if so , shall the eternal happiness which follows upon being good , make it less desirable to be so ? no surely , but if god had required any thing to make us happy , which had been as contrary to our present interest as the precepts of christianity are agreeable to it ; yet the end would have made the severest commands easie , and those things pleasant which tend to make us happy . . are these things so uncertain , that they are not fit for a wise man to be solicitous about them ? if they will come with ● little care , they will say , they are desirable but too much will unfit them for greater bus●ness ? but do men believe these things to be true or not , when they say thus ? if they be true , why need they fear their uncertainty ? if they be certain , what pain● and care can be too great about them since a little will never serve to obtai● them ? let but the care and diligence be proportionable to the greatness of the end , and the weight of the things , and you never need fear the want of a recompence for all your labour . but suppose you say , if you were fully convinced of thei● certainty , you would look more after them . what hinders you from being so convinced ? is it not a bad disposition of mind which makes you unwilling to enquire into them ? examine things with a mind as free as you would have it , judge seriously according to the reason of things , and you will easily find the interests of a life to come are far more certain , as well as more desirable than those of this present life . and yet the great uncertainty of all the honours and riches of this world , never hinder the covetous or ambitious person from their great earnestness in pursuit of them . and shall not then all the mighty arguments which god himself hath made use of to confirm to us the certainty of a life to come , prevail upon us to look more seriously after it ? shall the unexpressible love of the father , the unconceivable sufferings of the son of god , and the miraculous descent and powerful assistance of the holy ghost have no more impression on our minds , than to leave us uncertain of a future state ? what mighty doubts and suspicions of god , what distrusts of humane nature , what unspeakable ingratitude , and unaccountable folly lies at the bottom of all this uncertainty ? o fools , and slow of heart to believe , not only what the prophets have spoken , but what our lord hath declared , god himself hath given testimony to , and the holy ghost hath confirmed ! . but is not your interest concerned in these things ? is it all one to you whether your souls be immortal or no ? whether they live in eternal felicity , or unchangeable misery ? is it no more to you than to know what kind of baubles are in request at the indies , or whether the customs of china or iapan are the wiser , i. e. than the most trifling things , and the remotest from our knowledge . but this is to absurd and unreasonable to suppose , that men should not think themselves concerned in their own eternal happiness and misery , that i shall not shew so much distrust of their understandings to speak any longer to it . . but if notwithstanding all these things our neglect still continues , then (a) there remains nothing but a fearful looking for of judgement , and the fiery indignation of god. for there is no possibility of escaping if we continue to neglect so great salvation . all hopes of escaping are taken away , which are only in that , which men neglect ; and those who neglect their only way to salvation , must needs be miserable . how can that man ever hope to be saved by him whose blood he despises and tramples under foot ? what grace and favour can he expect from god , who hath done despight unto the spirit of grace ? that hath cast away with reproach and contempt the greatest kindness and offers of heaven . what can save him that resolves to be damned , and every one does so , who knows he shall be damned , if he lives in his sins , and yet continues to do so ? god himself , in whose only pity our hopes are , hath irreversibly decreed that he will have no pity upon those , who despise his goodness , slight his threatnings , abuse his patience , and sin the more because he offers to pardon . it is not any delight that god takes in the miseries of his creatures , which makes him punish them ; but shall not god vindicate his own honour against obstinate and impenitent sinners ? he declares before-hand , that he is far from delighting in their ruine , and that is the reason he hath made such large offers , and used so many means to make them happy ; but if men resolve to despise his offers , and slight the means of their salvation , shall not god be just without being thought to be cruel ? and we may assure our selves , none shall ever suffer beyond the just desert of their sins , for punishment , as the apostle tells us in the words before the text , is nothing but a just recompence of reward . and if there were such a one proportionable to the violation of the law delivered by angels ; how shall we think to escape who neglect a more excellent means of happiness , which was delivered by our lord himself ? if god did not hate sin , and there were not a punishment belonging to it , why did the son of god die for the expiation of it ? and if his death were the only means of expiation , how is it possible that those who neglect that , should escape the punishment not only of their other sins , but of that great contempt of the means of our salvation by him ? let us not then think to trifle with god , as though it were impossible a being so merciful and kind , should ever punish his creatures with the miseries of another life : for , however we may deceive our selves , (a) god will not be mocked , for whatsoever a man soweth , that shall he reap ; for he that soweth to his flesh , shall of the flesh reap corruption : but he that soweth to the spirit , shall of the spirit reap life everlasting . i shall only propound some few considerations , to prevent so great a neglect as that of your salvation is . . consider what it is you neglect , the offer of eternal happiness , the greatest kindness that ever was expressed to the world , the foundation of your present peace , the end of your beings , the stay of your minds , the great desire of your souls , the utmost felicity that humane nature is capable of . is it nothing to neglect the favour of a prince , the kindness of great men , the offers of a large and plentiful estate ; but these are nothing to the neglect of the favour of god , the love of his son , and that salvation which he hath purchased for you . nay , it is not a bare neglect , but it implies in it a mighty contempt not only of the things offered , but of the kindness of him who offers them . if men had any due regard for god or themselves , if they had any esteem for his love , or their own welfare , they would be much more serious in religion than they are . when i see a person wholly immersed in affairs of the world , or spending his time in luxury and vanity , can i possibly think that man hath any esteem of god or of his own soul ? when i find one very serious in the pursuit of his designs in the world , thoughtful and busie , subtle in contriving them , careful in managing them ; but very formal , remiss and negligent in all affairs of religion , neither inquisitive about them , nor serious in minding them ; what can we otherwise think , but that such a one doth really think the things of the world better worth looking after , than those which concern his eternal salvation . but consider , before it be too late , and repent of so great folly . value an immortal soul as you ought to do , think what reconciliation with god , and the pardon of sin is worth , slight not the dear purchase which was bought at no meaner a rate than the blood of the son of god , and then you cannot but mind the great salvation which god hath tendered you . . consider on what terms you neglect it , or what the things are for whose sake you are so great enemies to your own salvation . have you ever found that contentment in sin or the vanities of the world , that for the sake of them , you are willing to be for ever miserable ? what will you think of all your debaucheries , and your neglects of god and your selves , when you come to die ? what would you then ( if it were in your power to redeem your lost time ) that you had spent your time less to the satisfaction of your sensual desires , and more in seeking to please god ? how uncomfortable will the remembrance be of all your excesses , oaths , injustice and profaneness , when death approaches , and judgement follows it ? what peace of mind will there then be to those who have served god with faithfulness , and have endeavoured to work out their salvation , though it hath been with fear and trembling ? but what would it then profit a man to have gained the whole world , and to lose his own soul ? nay , what unspeakable losers must they then be , that lose their souls for that which hath no value at all , if compared with the world. . consider what follows upon this neglect , not only the loss of great salvation , but the incurring as great damnation for it . the scripture describes the miseries of the life to come , not meerly by negatives , but by the most sensible and painful things . if destruction be dreadful , what is everlasting destruction ? if the anguish of the soul , and the pains of the body be so troublesome , what will the destruction be both of body and soul in hell ? if a serpent gnawing in our bowels be a representation of an insupportable misery here , what will that be of the worm that never dies ? if a raging and devouring fire , which can last but till it hath consumed a fading substance , be in its appearance so amazing , and in its pain so violent , what then will the enduring be of that wrath of god , which shall burn like fire , and yet be everlasting ? consider then of these things , while god gives you time to consider of them ; and think it an inestimable mercy that you have yet time to repent of your sins , to beg mercy at the hands of god , to redeem your time , to depart from iniquity , to be frequent in prayer , careful of your actions , and in all things obedient to the will of god , and so god will pardon your former neglects , and grant you this great salvation . sermon vi. preached on good-friday before the lord mayor , &c. hebrews xii . . for , consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself , lest ye be weary , and faint in your minds . it hath never yet been so well with the world , and we have no great reason to hope it ever will be so ; that the best of things , or of men , should meet with entertainment in it , suitable to their own worth and excellency . if it were once to be hoped , that all mankind would be wise and sober , that their judgments would be according to the truth of things , and their actions suitable to their judgments ; we might then reasonably expect that nothing would be valued so much as true goodness , nothing so much in contempt and disgrace as impiety and profaneness . but if we find it much otherwise in the age we live in , we have so much the less cause to wonder at it ; because it hath been thus , in those times we might have thought would have been far better than our own . i mean those times and ages , wherein there were not only great things first spoken and delivered to mankind , but examples as great as the things themselves ; but these did so little prevail on the stupid and unthankful world , that they among whom the son of god did first manifest himself , seem'd only solicitous to make good one prophesie concerning him , viz. that he should be despised and rejected of men . and they who suffer'd their malice to live as long he did , were not contented to let it dye with him ; but their fury increases as the gospel does : and where-ever it had spread it self , they pursue it with all the rude clamours , and violent persecutions which themselves or their factors could raise against it . this we have a large testimony of , in those iewish christians to whom this epistle was written ; who had no sooner embraced the christian religion , but they were set upon by a whole army of persecutors , heb. . . but call to remembrance the former days , in which after ye were illuminated , ye endured a great fight of afflictions . as though the great enemy of souls , and therefore of christians , had watched the first opportunity to make the strongest impression upon them , while they were yet young and unexperienced ; and therefore less able to resist so sharp an encounte● . he had found how unsuccessful the offer of the good things of this world had been with their lord and master ; and therefore was resolved to try what a severer course would do with all his followers . but the same spirit by which he despised all the glories of the world , which the tempter would have made him believe he was the disposer of , enabled them with a mighty courage , and strange transports of joy , not only to bear their own share of reproaches and afflictions , but a part of theirs who suffer'd with them , v. , . but lest through continual duty , occasion'd by the hatred of their persecutors , and the multitude of their afflictions ; their courage should abate , and their spirits faint ; the apostle finds it necessary , not only to put them in mind of their former magnanimity ; but to make use of all arguments that might be powerful with them , to keep up the same vigour and constancy of mind in bearing their sufferings , which they had at first . for he well knew , how much it would tend to the dishonour of the gospel , as well as to their own discomfort ; if after such an early proof of a great and undaunted spirit , it should be said of them , as was once of a great roman captain , vltima primis cedebant ; that they should decline in their reputation as they did in their years ; and at last sink under that weight of duty which they had born with so much honour before . therefore , as a general in the field , after a sharp and fierce encounter at first , with a mighty resolution by his souldiers ; when he finds by the number and fresh recruits of the enemy , that his smaller forces are like to be born down before them ; and through mee● weariness of fighting are ready to turn their backs , or yield themselves up to the enemies mercy ; he conjures them by the honour they have gain'd , and the courage they had already expressed , by their own interest , and the example of their leaders , by the hopes of glory , and the fears of punishment , that they would bear the last shock of their enemies force , and rather be the trophies of their courage than of their triumphs : so does our apostle , when he finds some among them begin to debate , whether they had best to stand it out or no ; he conjures them , . by the remembrance of their own former courage , whereby they did bear as sharp tryals as these could be , with the greatest chearfulness and constancy ; and what could they gain by yielding at last , but great dishonour to themselves , that they had suffer'd so long to no purpose , unless it were to discover their own weakness and inconstancy . . by the hopes of a reward which would surely follow their faithfulness ; v. , . cast not away therefore your confidence , which hath great recompence of reward . for ye have need of patience , that after ye have done the will of god , ye might receive the promise : and the time will not be long ere ye come to enjoy it , v. . but if ye draw back , you lose all your former labours , for he who alone is able to recompence you , hath said , that if any man draw back , my soul shall have no pleasure in him , v. . and then from the example of himself , and all the genuine followers of christ , but we are not of them who draw back unto perdition ; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul , v. . but lest these examples should not be enough to perswade them ; he conjures them by the name of all those who were as eminent ●or the greatness of their minds as the strength of their faith ; who have despised the frowns as well as the ●miles of the world ; and were not discouraged by the severest tryals from placing their confidence in god , and their hopes in a life to come ; and all this done by persons who had not received the promise : heb. . . and could there be a greater disparagement to the clearness of that light we enjoy above them , if we only grew fainter by it ? and therefore in the beginning of this chapter he encourages them by that army of martyrs which had gone before them , by that cloud of witnesses which did both direct and refresh them , that they would lay aside every thing which was apt to oppress or dishearten them , but especially their sinful fears , which they were so easily betray'd by , and so run with patience the race that was set before them , v. . but , saith he , if none of these will prevail with you , there is an example yet behind , that ought above all others to heighten your courage , and that is , of the captain of your salvation , the author and finisher of your faith , under whom you serve , and from whom you expect your reward ; and as caesar once said to his souldiers , when he saw them ready to retreat out of the field , videte quem , & quo loco imperatorem deserturi estis . remember what kind of general you forsake , and in what place you leave him : one whom you have vow'd your lives and your service to , one who hath thought nothing too dear , which was to be done for your good , one that will be ready to reward the least service you can do for him , one that is ready to assist you to the utmost in what you undertake , one that hath already undergone far more for your sakes , than ever you can do for his ; therefore , consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself , lest ye be weary , and faint in your minds . in which words we have represented to us , the unparallel'd example of courage and patience under sufferings , in our lord and saviour ; and the great influence that it ought to have on all those who are call'd by his name , that they would not dishonour so excellent a pattern of enduring sufferings , by weakness or dejection of mind . christianity is a religion which above all others does arm men against all the contingencies and miseries of the life of man : yea , it makes them serviceable to the most advantageous purposes that the greatest blessings can be designed for . it raises the minds of men higher than barely to consider the common condition of humane nature , the unavoidableness of such things which are out of our own power , and the unreasonableness of tormenting our selves about the things which are so , and that most mens conditions in the world as to their contentment , depends more upon their minds , than their outward circumstances ; though these are things very fit for us as men to consider and make use of ; yet they dot not reach to that height , which the consideration of a life to come , and the tendency of all our sufferings here to the inhancement of our future glory may raise us to . especially considering not only the weight of the arguments in themselves , but the force they receive from the example of him , who for the joy that was set before him , endured the cross , and despised the shame , and is set down at the right hand of the throne of god. by which mighty instance we find , that the sufferings of this life are so far from being inconsistent with the joys of another , that he who is (a) the captain of salvation , was made perfect through sufferings , and therefore none of his followers have cause to be dejected under them . but that we may the better understand the force of this argument , we shall consider , . what those things were which he endured . . from whom he suffer'd them ; it was the contradiction of sinners against himself . . in what way and manner he underwent them . . for what ends he did it . and when we have considered these , we shall see the influence this example of christ's sufferings ought to have upon our constancy and patience : which will be the most useful improvement of it to us . . what those things were which christ endured ; which are here comprehended under those words , the contradiction of sinners . it is agreed by the best expositors , both greek and latin , that under this phrase of the contradictio● of sinners , the whole history of our saviour's sufferings is comprehended . all the injuries , reproaches , false accusations , all the cruelties , indignities , and violence , which were offer'd him , from the time of his publick appearance to his expiring upon the cross , being undergone by him , by the malice of unreasonable men , may be call'd the contradiction of sinners . for the sense of this word extends as well to actions as words ▪ and the sum of all that which our saviour suffer'd from them , may be reduced under these heads . . the ill entertainment of his doctrine . . the disparagement of his miracles . . the violence offer'd to his person . . the ill entertainment of his doctrine ; which must needs seem very strange to those who do not consider what a difficult access the clearest reason hath to the minds of such who are governed by interest and prejudice . though all the the prophesies concerning the messias were fulfilled in him ; though the expectations of the people were great at that time concerning the appearance of him that was to redeem his people ; tho' all the characters of time , place , and person , did fully agree to what was foretold by the prophets ; though his doctrine were as becoming the son of god to reveal , as the sons of men to receive ; though the unspotted innocency of his life was so great , as made him weary of his own that betray'd him : yet because he came not with the pomp and splendor which they expected , they despise his person , revile his doctrine , persecute his followers , and contrive his ruin . what could have been imagined more probable , than that the iewish nation , which had waited long in expectation of the messias coming , should have welcom'd his approach with the greatest joy , and receiv'd the message he brought with a kindness only short of that which he shewed in coming among them ? was it nothing to be eased of that heavy burden of the ceremonial law , which neither they nor their fathers were able to bear ? and that god was willing to exchange the chargeable and troublesome service of the temple , for the more reasonable and spiritual worship of himself ? was it nothing to have the promises of a land which now groaned under the weight of its oppressions , turned into those of an eternal state of bliss and immortality ? and to change the lamps of the temple , for the glorious appearance of the son of righteousness ? was it nothing to have an offer of peace and reconciliation with god made them , after they had suffer'd so much under the fury of his displeasure ? was a meer temporal deliverance by some mighty conquerour from the subjection they were in to the roman power , so much more valuable a thing , than an eternal redemption from the powers of hell and the grave ? are the pomps and vanities of this present life , such great things in god's account , that it was not possible for his son to appear without them ? nay , how unsuitable had it been for one who came to preach humility , patience , self-denyal , and contempt of the world , to have made ostentation of the state and grandeur of it ? so that either he must have changed his doctrine , or rendred himself lyable to the suspicion of seeking to get this world by the preaching of another . and if his doctrine had been of another kind , he might have been esteemed a great person among the iews , but not the son of god , or the promised messias , in whom all nations of the earth should be blessed . which surely they would never have thought themselves to have been , in one , who must have subdued the neighbour nations to advance the honour of his own . but since the son of god thought fit to appear in another manner than they expected him , they thought themselves too great to be saved by so mean a saviour . if he had made all the kingdoms of the earth to have bowed under him , and the nations about them to have been all tributaries to them ; if ierusalem had been made the seat of an empire as great as the world it self , they would then have gloried in his name , and entertained whatever he had said , whether true or false , with a wonderful veneration . but truth in an humble dress meets with few admirers ; they could not imagine so much power and majesty could ever shroud it self under so plain a disguise . thus christ (a) came to his own , and his own received him not . yea , those that should have known him the best of all others ; those who frequently conversed with him , and heard him speak as never man spake , and saw him do what never man did , were yet so blinded by the meanness of his parentage and education , that they baffle their own reason , and persist in their infidelity , because they knew the place and manner of his breeding ; the names of his mother and his brethren and sisters ; (a) are they not all with us ? whence then hath this man all these things ? as though , is not this the carpenters son , had been sufficient answer to all he could say or do . . the disparagement of his miracles . since the bare proposal of his doctrine , though never so reasonable , could not prevail with them to believe him to be the son of god , he offers them a further proof of it by the mighty works which were wrought by him . and though the more ingenuous among them were ready to acknowledge , (b) that no man could do the things which he did , unless god were with him : yet they who were resolved to hear and see , and not understand ; when they found it not for their credit , to deny matters of fact so universally known attested , they seek all the means to blast the reputation of them that may be . sometimes raising popular insinuations against him , that he was a man of no austere life , a friend of publicans and sinners , one that could choose no other day to do his works on , but that very day wherein god himself did rest from his ; and therefore no great regard was to be had to what such a one did . when these arts would not take , but the people found the benefit of his miracles , in healing the sick , curing the blind and the lame , feeding the hungry ; then they undervalue all these in comparison with the wonders that were wrought by moses in the wilderness . if he would have made the earth to open her mouth , and swallow up the city and the power of rome ; if he would have fed a mighty army with bread from heaven , in stead of feeding some few thousands with very small provisions ; if in stead of raising one lazarus from the grave , he would have raised up their sampson's , and their david's , their men of spirit and conduct , whose very presence would have put a new life into the hearts of the people ; if in stead of casting out devils , he would have cast out the romans , whom they hated the worse of the two : if he would have set himself to the cure of a distempered state , instead of healing the maladies of some few inconsiderable persons : if instead of being at the expense of a miracle to pay tribute , he would have hinder'd them from paying any at all ; then a second moses would have been too mean a title for him , he could have been no less than the promised messias , the son of god. but while he imploy'd his power another way , the demonstration of it made them hate him the more ; since they thought with themselves what strange things they would have done with it for the benefit of their country ; and therefore express the greatest malice against him , because he would not imploy it as they would have him . from thence , they condemn his miracles as only some effects of a magical skill ; and say , he dispossessed the lesser devils by the power of him that was the prince among them . so unworthy a requital did they make for all the mighty works which had been done among them ; which , as our saviour saith , (a) if they had been done in tyre and sidon , they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes . . but altho' all this argued a strange spirit of contradiction in them to all the designs for their own good ; yet the malice from whence that rose , would not s●op here ; for as they had long contrived his ruin , so they watched only an opportunity to effect it . which his frequent presence at ierusalem seemed to put into their hands , but his reputation with the people made them fearful of embracing it . therefore they imploy their agents to deal privately with one of h●s disciples who might be fittest for their design ; and to work upon his covetous humour by the promise of a reward , to bring him to betray his mas●er with the greatest privacy into their hands . this iudas undertakes , knowing the place and season of his masters retirements , not far from the city , where they might with the greatest secrecy and safety seize upon his person . which contrivance of theirs our saviour was not at all ignorant of ; but prepares himself and his disciples for this great encounter . he institutes his solemn supper , to be perpetually observed in remembrance of his death and sufferings , after which he discourses admirably with his disciples , to arm them against their future sufferings ; and prays that most divine prayer , st. iohn . which he had no sooner finished , but he goes with his disciples to the usual place of his retirement in a garden at the foot of the mount of olives . and now begins the blackest scene of sufferings that ever was acted upon humane nature . which was so great , that the son of god himself expresseth a more than usual apprehension of it ; which he discovered by the agony he was in , in which he sweat (a) drops of blood ; by the earnestness of his prayer , falling upon his knees , and praying thrice , saying , (b) o my father , if it be possible , let this cup pass from me ; nevertheless not as i will , but as thou wilt . surely , this cup must needs have a great deal of bitterness in it , which the son of god was so earnest to be freed from . if there had been nothing in it but what is commonly incident to humane nature , as to the apprehensions of death or pain , it seems strange , that he who had the greatest innocency , the most perfect charity , the freest resignation of himself , the fullest assurance of the reward to come , should express a greater sense of the horror of his sufferings , than thousands did , who suffer'd for his sake . but now was the hour come wherein the son of god was to be made a sacrifice for the sins of men wherein he was to bear our griefs , and carry our sorrows , when he was (c) to be wounded for our transgressions , and bruised for our iniquities ; now (d) his soul was exceeding sorrowful even unto death ; for now (e) the hour of his enemies was come , and the power of darkness . and accordingly they improve it ; they came out against him as a malefactor , with swords and staves , and having seized his person , being betray'd into their hands by one of his disciples , they carry him to the high priests house , where his professed enemies presently condemn him of (a) blasphemy , and not content with this , they express the greatest contempt of him , for they spit in his face , they buffet him , and smite him with the palms of their hands , they mock him , and bid him prophesie who it was that smote him ; so insolent was their malice grown , and so spightful was their indignation against him . and so fearful were they , lest he should escape their hands , that the very next morning early , they send him bound to the roman governour , to have the sentence pronounced against him , to whom they accuse him of seditition and treason ; but pilate upon examination of him declares , (b) he found no fault in him ; which made them heap more unreasonable calumnies upon him , being resolved by what means soever to take away his life . nay , the price of the blood of the son of god was fallen so low with them , that they preferred the life of a known seditious person , and a murtherer before him . and when pilate being unsatisfied , asked sti●l , (a) what evil hath he done ? they continue their importunity without any other answer but crucifie him , and making up what wanted in justice and reason in the loudness of their clamours . and at last seeing the fury and madness of the people , with the protestation of his own innocency as to his blood , he delivers him up to the people ; and now he is stripped , and scourged , and mock'd , with a crown of thorns , a scarlet robe , and a reed in his hand : all the indignities they could think of , they put upon him . but though it pleased them , to have him exposed to all the ignominies imaginable , yet nothing would satisfie them but his blood ; and therefore he is led forth to be crucified , and though so lately scourged and weakened by his sorrows , yet he is made to carry his own cross ( at least through the city ) for no other death could satisfie them , but the most ignominious , and painful . and when he was brought to the place of crucifixion , they nail h●s hands and feet to the cross , and while he was hanging there , they deride and mock him still , they divide his garments before his face , give him gall and vinegar to drink , and the last act of violence committed upon him , was the piercing of his side , so that out of his pericardium issued (a) both water and blood . thus did the son of god suffer at the hands of unreasonable men ; thus was the blood of that immaculate lamb spilt by the hands of violence ; and he who left the bosom of his father , to bring us to glory , was here treated as if he had been unworthy to live upon the earth . . but that which yet heightens these sufferings of christ , is to consider ▪ from whom he suffer'd these things , it was from sinners ; which is as much as to say , from men , if the word were taken in the largest sense of it ; for all have sinned ; but being taken by us in opposition to other men , so it implies a greater height of wickedness in these th●n in other persons . but this is not h●re to be consider'd absolutely , as denoting what kind of persons he su●fer'd from , but with a particular respect to the nature of their proceedings with him , and the obligations that lay u●on them to the contrary . so that the first shews the injustice and unreasonableness of them ; the second , their great ingratitude , considering the kindness and good will which he expressed towards them . . the injustice and unreasonableness of their proceedings against him . it is true indeed , ( what socrates said to his wife , when she complained that he suffer●d unjustly , what , saith he , and would you have me suffer justly ? ) it is much greater comfort to the person who does suffer , when he does it unjustly , but it is a far greater reflection on those who were the causes of it . and that our blessed saviour did suffer with the greatest injustice from these men , is apparent from the falseness and weakness of all the accusations which were brought against him . to accuse the son of god for blasphemy , in saying , he was so , is as unjust as to condemn a king for treason , because he saith he is a king : they ought to have examined the grounds on which he call'd himself so ; and if he had not given pregnant evidences of it , then to have passed sentence upon him as an impostor and blasphemer . if the thing were true , that he was what he said , the son of god , what horrible guilt was it in them , to imbrue their hands in his blood ▪ and they found he always attested it , and now was willing to lay down his life to confirm the truth of what he said . this surely ought at least to have made them more inquisitive into what he had affirmed ; but they allow him not the liberty of a fair tryal , they hasten and precipitate the sentence , that they might do so the execution . if he were condemned as a false prophet ; ( for that seems to be the occasion of the sanhedrim meeting to do it , to whom the cognisance of that did particularly belong ) why do they not mention what it was he had foretold , which had not come to pass ; or what reason do they give why he had usurped such an office to himself ? if no liberty were allowed under pain of death for any to say , that they were sent from god , how was it possible for the messias ever to appear , and not be condemned ? for the expectation of him was , that he should be a great person immediately sent from god , for the delivery of his people . and should he be sent from god , and not say that he was so ? for how then could men know that he was ? so that their way of proceeding with him , discovers it self to be manifestly unjust , and contrary to their own avowed expectations . neither were they more successf●l in the accusation of him before pilate ; why did not the witness appear to make good the charge of sedition and treason against him ? where were the proo●s of any thing tending that way ? nay , that which a●undantly testified the innocency of our saviour , as to all the matters he was accused of , was that the roman governour , after a full examination of the cause , declares him innocent , and that not only once but several times ; and was fully satisfied in the vindication he made of himself , so that nothing but the fear of what the iews threatned , viz accusing him to caesar ( a thing he had cause enough otherwise to be afraid of ) which made him at last yield to their importunity . but there was one circumstance more which did highly discover the innoc●ncy of christ , and the injustice of his sufferings , which was iudas's confession and end ; the man who had betray'd his lord , and had receiv'd the wages of his iniquity ; but was so unquiet with it , that in the time when his other disciples durst not own him , he with a great impetus returns to them with his money , throws it among them with that sad farewel to them all , (a) i have sinned , in that i have betrayed the innocent blood . what could have been said more for his vindication at this time than this was , by such a person as iudas , one who had known our saviour long , and had been the fittest instrument , if any guilt could have been ●asten'd upon him , to have managed the accusation against him ; but the anxiety of his mind was too great for what he had done already , to live to do them any longer service ; for either his grief suffocated him , or his guilt made him hang himself ; for the words will signifie either . neither can it be said by any modern iews , that all the testimony we have of these things is from his own disciples ; but that certainly they had some greater matter to accuse him of ; which we now have lost . for how is it ●ossible to conceive , that a matter so important as that was , should be lost by those of their own nation , who were to highly concerned to vindicate themselves in all places , as soon as the gospel was spread abroad in the world ? for the guilt of th●s blood was every where by the christians charged upon them ; and their pr●digious sufferings aferwards were imputed who●ly by them to the shedding of that blood of christ , which by a most solemn imprecation they had said , should be upon them and their children . besides , how comes celsus , who personates a iew , opposing christianity , to mention no other accusations against him but those recorded in the gospel ; and (a) origen ● challenges him or any other person to charge him with any action which might deserve punishment . and which is very observable , porphyrie , one of the most inveterate enemies of christianity , and that took as much pains to write against it as any , and had more learning to do it with , yet in his book of the philosophy of oracles , as (b) st. augustin tells us , quotes an oracle wherein were these words concerning christ , and what became of him after his death ? it saith , that his soul was immortal , (c) viri pietate proestantissimi est illa anima , and that it was the soul of a most excellent person for piety ; and being then asked , why he was condemned ? the answer only is , that the body ( of the best ) is exposed to weakning torments , but the soul rests in heavenly habitations . so that on no account can this contradiction appear to be otherwise than an act of great injustice and cruelty , and therefore must needs be the contradiction of sinners . . this contradiction of theirs to christ was an act of high ingratitude . it was a sharp but very just rebuke which the iews received from our saviour , when they were once ready to stone him ; (a) many good works have i shewed you from my father , for which of those works do you stone me ? the very same might have been applyed to his judges and accusers ; when they were about to crucifie him . for what was his whole life after he appeared publickly , but a constant design of doing good ? his presence had far more vertue for the curing all bodily distempers , than the pool of bethesda among the iews , or the temples of aesculapius among the gentiles . what wonders were made of very small things done by other persons , as the cure of a blind man by vespasian ! when such multitudes of far more certain and c●nsiderable cures , can hardly keep up the reputation of any thing extraordinary in him . but though his kindness was great to the bodies of men , where they were fit objects of pity and compassion ; yet it was far greater to their souls , that being more agreeable to the design of his coming into the world ; for the other tended to raise such an esteem of him as might make him the more successful in the cure of their souls . and to shew , that this was his great business , where-ever he comes , he discourses about these things , takes every oportunity that might be improved for that end , refuses no company he might do good upon , and converses not with them with the pride and arrogance of either the pharisees or philosophers , but with the greatest meekness , humility and patience . how admirable are his more solemn discourses , especially that upon the mount , and that wherein he takes leave of his disciples ! how dry and insipid are the most sublime discourses of the philosophers compared with these ! how clearly doth he state our duties , and what mighty encouragements does he give to practise them ! how forcibly does he perswade men to self-denyal and contempt of the world ! how excellent and holy are all his precepts ! how serviceable to the best interest of men in this life and that to come ! how suitable and desirable to the souls of good men are the rewards he promises ! what exact rule of righteousness hath he prescribed to men , in doing as they would be done by ! with what vehemency doth he rebuke all hypocrisie and pharisaism ! with what tenderness and kindness does he treat those that have any real inclinations to true goodness ! with what earnestness does he invite , and with what love doth he embrace all repenting sinners ! with what care doth he instruct , with what mildness doth he reprove , with what patience doth he bear with his own disciples ! lastly , with what authority did he both speak and live , such as commanded a reverence , where it did not beget a love ! and yet after a life thus spent , all the requital he met with , was to be reproached , despised , and at last crucified . o the dreadful effects of malice and hyprocrisie ! for these were the two great enemies which he always proclaimed open war with ; and these at first contrived , and at last effected his cruel death . what baseness , ingratitude , cruelty , and injustice , ( and what not ? ) will those two sins betray men to , when they have on●e taken possession of the hearts of men ! for we can find nothing else at the bottom of all that wretched conspiracy against our saviour ; but that his doctrine and design was too pure and holy for them ; and therefore they study to take him away who was the author of them . . we consider , in what way and manner , our saviour underwent all these sufferings ; and this as much as any thing is here propounded to our consideration . for it is not only who , or what , but in what manner he endured the contradiction of sinners , that we ought to consider , to prevent sainting and dejection of mind . so another apostle tells us , (a) that christ suffered for us , leaving us an example , that we should follow his steps ; who did no sin , neither was guile found in his mouth ; who when he was reviled , reviled not again : when he suffered , he threatned not , but committed himself to him that judged righteously . he uses none of those ranting expressions which none of the patientest persons in the world were accustomed to ; of bidding them laugh in phalaris his bull ; and when they were racked with pains , to cry out , nil agis dolor : he tells them not , that it is their duty to have no sense of torments , and to be jocund and pleasant when their flesh is torn from them , or nailed to a cross ; if this be any kind of fortitude , it is rather that of a gladiator than of a wise man or a christian. the worst of men either through a natural temper of body , or having hardned themselves by custom , have born the greatest torments with the least expression of grief under them . and panoetius , one of the wisest of the stoicks , is so far from making insensibleness of pain the property of a wise man , that he makes it not the property of a man. the inferiour creatures are call'd brutes from their dulness and insensibleness , and not meerly from want of reason , any further than that one follows from the other : (a) bruta existimantur animalium quibus cor durum riget , saith pliny , those animals are call'd brutes which have the hardest hearts : and the nearer any of them approach to the nature of man , the more apprehensive they are of danger , and the more sensible of pain ; thence (b) scaliger saith of the elephant , that it is maxima bellua , sed non maximè bruta , though it be the greatest beast , it is the least a brute . stupidity then under sufferings can be no part of the excellency of a man ; which in its greatest height is in the beings the most beneath him . but when danger is understood , and pain felt , and nature groans under it , then with patience and submission to undergo it , and to conquer all the strugglings of nature against it , that is the duty and excellency of a christian . if to express the least sense of grief and pain , be the highest excellency of suffering , the macedonian boy that suffer'd his flesh to be burnt by a coal , till it grew o●fensive to all about him , without al●ering the posture of his arm , lest he should disturb alexanders sacrifice , out-did the greatest philosophers of them all . possidonius his pitiful rant over a fit of the gout , so highly commended by pompey and (a) tully ; o pain , it is to no purpose ; though thou beest troublesome , i will never confess thou art evil ; falls extremely short of the resolution of the macedonian boy , or any of the spartan youths , who would not in the midst of torments so much as confess them troublesome . and what a mighty revenge was that , that he would not confess it to be evil , when his complaint that it was troublesome , was a plain argument that he thought it so . it is not then the example of zeno or cleanthes , or the rules of stoicism , which dionysius heracleotes , in a fit of the stone complained of the folly of , that are to be the measures of patience , and courage in bearing sufferings ; but the example and precepts of our lord and saviour , who expressed a great sense of his sufferings but withal the greatest submission under them . when (a) lipsius lay a dying , and one of the by-standers knowing how conversant he had been in the stoicks writings , began to suggest some of their precepts to him , vana sunt ista , said he , i find all those but vain things ; and beholding the picture of our saviour near his bed , he pointed to that , and cryed , haec vera est patientia : there is the true pattern of patience . for , notwithstanding that agony he was in immediately before his being betray'd , when he sees the officers coming towards him , he asks them whom they seek for ? and tells them , i am he ; which words so astonished them , (a) that they went back , and fell upon the ground : thereby letting them understand how easie a matter it was for him to have escaped their hands ; and that it was his own free consent , that he went to suffer , for he knew certainly before hand , the utmost that he was to undergo , and therefore it was no unreasonable impetus , but a setled resolution of his mind to endure all the contradictions of sinners . when he was spit upon , mocked , reproached and scourged , none of all these could draw one impatient expression from him . the malice and rage of his enemies did not at all provoke him ; unless it were to pity and pray for them . and that he did , with great earnestness in the midst of all his pains : and though he would not plead for himself to them , yet he pleads for them to god ; father , forgive them , for they know not what they do . how much more divine was this , than the admired theramenes among the greeks , who being condemned to die by the thirty tyrants , when he was drinking off his cup of poyson , said , he drank that to critias , one of his most bitter enemies , and hoped he would pledge it shortly . socrates seemed not to express seriousness enough at least , when he bid one of his friends , when he was dying , offer up a cock to aesculapius for his deliverance . aristides and phocion among the greeks came the nearest to our saviour's tempe● , when one pray'd , that his country might have no cause to remember him when he was gone , and the other charged his son , to forget the injuries they had done him ; but yet by how much the greater the person and office was of our blessed saviour , than of either of them , by how much the cruelty and ignominy , as well as pain was greater which they exposed him to , by how much greater concernment there is to have such an offence pardon'd by one that can punish it with eternal misery , than not revenged by those , who though they may have will , have not always power to execute ; so much greater was the kindness of our saviour to his enemies , in his prayer upon the cross , than of either of the other , in their concernment for that ungrateful city , that had so ill requited their services to it . thus when the son of god was oppressed , and afflicted , (a) he opened not his mouth , but only in prayer for them , who were his bitter enemies ; and though nothing had been more easie than for him to have cleared himself from all their accusations , who had so often baffled them before ; yet he would not now give them that suspicion of his innocency , as to make any apology for himself ; but committed himself to god that judges righteously , and was brought as a lamb to the slaughter , and as a sheep before her shearers was dumb , so he opened not his mouth . and the reason thereof was , he knew what further design for the good of mankind was carrying on by the bitterness of his passion , and that all the cruel usage he underwent , was that he might be a sacrifice of atonement for the sins of the world. which leads to the last thing propounded to our consideration . . which is , the causes why god was pl●ased to suffer his son to endure such contradiction of sinners against himself . i know it is an easie answer to say , that god had determin'd it should be so , and that we ought to enquire no further : but sure such an answer can satisfie none who consider , how much our salvation depends upon the knowledge of it , and how clear and express the scripture is in assigning the causes of the sufferings of christ. which though as far as the instruments were concerned in it , we have given an account of already ; yet considering the particular management of this grand affair by the care of divine providence , a higher account must be given of it , why so divine and excellent a person should be exposed to all the contempt and reproach imaginable , and after being made a sacrifice to the tongues and rods of the people , then to dye a painfull and ignominious death ? so that allowing but that common care of divine providence , which all sober heathens acknowledged , so transcendent sufferings as these were , of so holy and innocent a person , ought to be accounted for , in a more than ordinary manner ; when they thought themselves concerned to vindicate the justice of god's providence in the common calamities of those who are reputed to be better than the generality of mankind . but the reasons assigned in that common case will not hold here , since this was a person immediately sent from god upon a particular message to the world , and therefore might plead an exemption by virtue of his ambassage from the common arrests and troubles of humane nature . but it was so far otherwise , as tho' god had designed him on purpose to let us see how much mi●ery humane nature can undergo . some think themselves to go as far as their reason will permit them ; when they tell us , that he suffer'd all these things to confirm the truth of what he had said , and particularly the promise of remission of sins , and that he might be an example to others , who should go to heaven by suffering afterwards , and that he might , being touched with the feeling of our infirmities here , have the greater pity upon us now he is in heaven . all these i grant to have been true and weighty reasons of the sufferings of christ , in subordination to greater ends ; but if there had been nothing beyond all this , i can neither understand why he should suffer so deeply as he did , nor why the scripture should insist upon a far greater reason more than upon any of these ? i grant , the death of christ did confirm the truth of his doctrine , as far as it is unreasonable to believe that any one who knew his doctrine to be false , would make himself miserable to make others believe it ; but if this had been all intended , why would not an easier and less ignominious death have served ? since he who would be willing to dye to confirm a falshood , would not be thought to confirm a truth by his death , because it was painful and shameful . why , if all his sufferings were designed as a testimony to others , of the truth of what he spake , were the greatest of his sufferings , such as none could know the anguish of them but himself , i mean his agony in the garden , and that which made him cry out upon the cross ; my god , my god , why hast thou forsaken me ? why were not his miracles enough to confirm the truth of his doctrine ? since the law of moses was received without his death , by the evidence his miracles gave that he was sent from god ; since the doctrine of remission of sins had been already deliver'd by the prophets , and received by the people of the iews ; since those who would not believe for his miracles sake , neither would they believe though they should have seen him ri●e from the grave , and therefore not surely because they saw him put into it . but of all things , the manner of our saviour's sufferings seems least designed to bring the world to the belief of his doctrine , which was the main obstacle to the entertainment of it among the men of greatest reputation for wisdom and knowledge . for it was (a) christ crucified , which was to the iews a stumbling block , and to the greeks foolishness . had the apostles only preached that the son of god had appeared from heaven , and discovered the only way to bring men thither , that he assumed our nature for a time to render himself capable of conversing with us , and therein had wrought many strange and stupendious miracles ; but after he had sufficiently acquainted the world with the nature of his doctrine , he was again assumed up into heaven ; in all probability , the doctrine might have been so easily received by the world , as might have saved the lives of many thousand persons , who dyed as martyrs for it . and if it had been necessary that some must have dyed to confirm it , why must the son of god himself do it ? when he had so many disciples who willingly sacrificed their lives for him , and whose death would on that account have been as great a confirmation of the truth of it as his own . but if it be alledged further , (a) that god now entring into a covenant with man for the pardon of sin , the shedding of the blood of christ was necessary as a federal rite to confirm it . i answer , if only as a federal rite , why no cheaper blood would serve to confirm it but that of the son god ? we never read that any covenant was confirmed by the death of one of the contracting parties ; and we cannot think that god was so prodigal of the blood of his son , to have it shed only in allusion to some ancient customs . but if there were such a necessity of alluding to them , why might not the blood of any other person have done it ? when yet all that custom was no more , but that a sacrifice should be offer'd , and upon the parts of the sacrifice divided , they did solemnly swear and and ratifie their covenant . (c) and if this be yielded them , it then follows from this custom , that christ must be consider'd as a sacrifice in his death ; and so the ratification of the covenant must be consequent to that oblation which he made of himself upon the cross. besides , how incongruous must this needs be , that the death of christ the most innocent person in the world , without any respect to the guilt of sin , should suffer so much on purpose to assure us , that god will pardon those who are guilty of it ? may we not much rather infer the contrary , considering the holiness and justice of god's nature ; if he dealt so severely with the green tree , how much more will he with the dry ? if one so innocent suffer'd so much , what then may the guilty expect ? if a prince should suffer the best subject he hath to be severely punished , could ever any imagine that it was with a design to assure them that he would pardon the most rebellious ? no ; but would it not rather make men afraid of being too innocent , for fear of suffering too much for it ? and those who seem very careful to preserve the honour of god's justice , in not punishing one for another's faults , ought likewise to maintain it in the punishing of one who had no fault at all to answer for . and to think to escape this by saying , that to such a person such things are calamities , but no punishments , is to revive the ancient exploded stoicism , which thought to reform the diseases of mankind by meer changing the names of things , though never so contrary to the common sense of humane nature : which judges of the nature of punishments by the evils men undergo , and the ends they are designed for . and by the very same reason that god might exercise his dominion on so innocent a person as our saviour was , without any respect to sin as the moving cause to it , he might lay eternal torments on a most innocent creature ( for degrees and continuance do not alter the reason of things ) and then escape with the same evasion , that this was no act of injustice in god , because it was a meer exercise of dominion . and when once a sinner comes to be perswaded by this that god will pardon him , it must be by the hopes that god will shew kindness to the guilty , because he shews so little to the innocent ; and if this be agreeable to the justice and holiness of god's nature , it is hard to say what is repugnant to it . if to this it be said , that christ's consent made it no unjust exercise of dominion in god towards him : it is easily answered , that the same consent will make it less injustice in god to lay the punishment of our sins upon christ , upon his undertaking to satisfie for us ; for then the consent supposes a meritorious cause of punishment ; but in this case the consent implyeth none at all . and we are now enquiring into the reasons of such sufferings , and consequently of such a consent ; which cannot be imagined but upon very weighty motives , such as might make it just in him to consent , as well as in god to inflict . neither can it be thought that all the design of the sufferings of christ , was to give us an example and an encouragement to suffer our selves ; though it does so in a very great measure , as appears by the text it self . for the hopes of an eternal reward for these short and light afflictions , ought to be encouragement enough , to go through the miseries of of this life in expectation of a better to come . and the cloud of witnesses both under the law and the gospel , of those who have suffer'd for righteousness sake , ought to make no one think it strange , if he must endure that , which so many have done before him , and been crowned for it . and lastly , to question whether christ could have pity enough upon us in our sufferings , unless he had suffer'd so deeply himself ; will lead men to distrust the pity and compassion of almighty god , because he was never capable of suffering , as we do . but the scripture is very plain and full ( to all those who rack not their minds to pervert it ) in assigning a higher reason than all these of the sufferings of christ , viz. that (a) christ suffered for sins , the just for the unjust ; that (b) his soul was made an offering for sin , and that the lord therefore as on a sacrifice of atonement , (c) laid on him the iniquities of us all : that , through the eternal spirit , (d) he offer'd himself without spot to god , and did appear to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself ; that he was made a propitiation for our sins ; that , (e) he laid down his life as a price of redemption for mankind ; that , (f) through his blood we obtain redemption , even the forgiveness of sins , which in a more particular manner is attributed (g) to the blood of christ , as the procuring cause of it . that he dyed (h) to reconcile god and us together ; and that (i) the ministery of reconciliation , is founded (k) on god's making him to be sin for us who knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him : and that we may not think that all this reconciliation respects us and not god ; he is said (a) to offer up himself to god ; and for this cause to be a mediator of the new testament , and (b) to be a faithful high-priest in things pertaining to god , to make reconciliation for the sins of the people (c) and every high-priest , taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to god ; not appointed by god in things meerly tending to the good of men ; which is rather the office of a prophet than a priest. so that from all these places it may easily appear , that the blood of christ is to be looked on as a sacrifice of atonement for the sins of the world. not as though christ did suffer the very same which we should have suffer'd , for that was eternal death as the consequent of guilt in the person of the offender , and then the discharge must have been immediately consequent upon the payment , and no room had been left for the freeness of remission , or for the conditions required on our parts ; but that god was pleased to accept of the death of his son , as a full , perfect , sufficient sacrifice , oblation , and satisfaction for the sins of the world ; as our church expresseth it ; and in consideration of the sufferings of his son , is pleased to offer pardon of sin upon sincere repentance , and eternal life upon a holy obedience to his will. thus much for the things we are to consider concerning the contradiction of sinners which christ endured against himself . nothing now remains , but the influence that ought to have upon us , lest we be weary and faint in our minds . for which end i shall suggest two things . . the vast disproportion between christ's sufferings and ours . . the great encouragement we have from his sufferings , to bear our own the better . . the vast disproportion between christ's sufferings and our own . our lot is fallen into suffering times ; and we are apt enough to complain of it . i will not say it is wholly true of us , what the moralist saith generally of the complaints of men , non quia dura sed quia molles patimur ; that it is not the hardness of our conditions so much as the softness of our spirits which makes us complain of them . for i must needs say , this city hath smarted by such a series and succession of judgments which few cities in the world could parallel in so short a time . the plague hath emptied its houses , and the fire consumed them ; the war exhausted our spirits , and it were well if peace recovered them . but still these are but the common calamities of humane nature , things that we ought to make account of in the world , and to grow the better by them . and it were happy for this city , if our thankfulness and obedience were but answerable to the mercies we yet enjoy : let us not make our condition worse by our fears ; nor our fears greater than they need to be : for no enemy can be so bad as they . thanks be to god our condition is much better at present than it hath been ; let us not make it worse by fearing it may be so . complaints will never end till the world does ; and we may imagine that will not last much longer ; when the city thinks it hath trade enough , and the country riches enough . but i will not go about to perswade you that your condition is better than it is , for i know it is to no purpose to do so ; all men will believe as they feel . but suppose our condition were much worse than it is ; yet what were all our sufferings compared with those of our saviour for us ? the sins that make us smart , wounded him much deeper ; they pierced his side , which only touch our skin , we have no cause to complain of the bitterness of that cup which he hath drunk off the dregs of already . we lament over the ruins of a city , and are revived with any hopes of seeing it rise out of the dust ; but christ saw the ruins that sin caused in all mankind , he undertook the repairing them , and putting men into a better condition than before : and we may easily think what a difficult task he had of it ; when he came to restore them who were delighted in their ruins , and thought themselves too good to be mended . it is the comfort of our miseries , ( if they be only in this life ) that we know they cannot last long ; but that is the great aggravation of our saviour's sufferings , that the contradiction of sinners continues against him still . witness , the atheism , i cannot so properly call it , as the antichristianism of this present age ; wherein so many profane persons act over again the part of the scribes and pharisees ; they slight his doctrine , despise his person , disparage his miracles , contemn his precepts , and undervalue his sufferings . men live as if it were in defiance to his holy laws ; as though they feared not what god can do , so much as to need a mediator between him and them . if ever men tread under foot the son of god , it is when they think themselves to be above the need of him ; if ever they count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing , it is not only when they do not value it as they ought , but when they exercise their profane wits upon it . blessed saviour ! was it not enough for thee to bear the contradiction of sinners upon earth ; but thou must still suffer so much at the hands of those whom thou diedst for , that thou mightest bring them to heaven ? was it not enough for thee to be betrayed on earth , but thou must be defied in heaven ? was it not enough for thee to stoop so low for our sakes , but that thou shouldest be trampled on because thou didst it ? was the ignominious death upon the cross too small a thing for thee to suffer in thy person , unless thy religion be contemned , and exposed to as much shame and mockery as thy self was ? unhappy we , that live to hear of such things ! but much more unhappy if any of our sins have been the occasion of them : if our unsuitable lives to the gospel have open'd the mouths of any against so excellent a religion . if any malice and revenge , any humour and peevishness , any pride or hypocrisie , any sensuality and voluptuousness , any injustice , or too much love of gain , have made others despise that religion which so many pretend to , and so few practise . if we have been in any measure guilty of this , as we love our religion , and the honour of our saviour , let us endeavour by the holiness and meekness of our spirits , the temperance and justice of our actions , the patience and contentedness of our minds , to recover the honour of that religion which only can make us happy , and our posterity after us . . what encouragement we have from the sufferings of christ , to bear our own the better ; because we see by his example that god deals no more hardly with us , than he did with his own son , if he lays heavy things upon us . why should we think to escape , when his own son underwent so much ? if we meet with reproaches , and ill usage , with hard measure , and a mean condition , with injuries and violence , with mockings and affronts , nay , with a shameful and a painful death , what cause have we to complain , for did not the son of god undergo all these things before us ? if any of your habitations have been consumed , that you have been put to your shifts where to lodge your selves , or your families ; consider , that (a) though the foxes have holes , and the birds of the air have nests , yet the son of man had not whereon to lay his head . if your condition be mean and low , think of him , (b) who being in the form of god , took upon him the form of a servant ; and (c) though he was rich , yet for your sakes he became poor , that through his poverty ye might be made rich . if you are unjustly defamed and reproached , consider what contumelies and disgraces the son of god underwent for you . if you are in pain and trouble , think of his agony and bloody sweat , the nailing of his hands and feet to the cross , to be a sacrifice for the expiation of your sins . never think much of undergoing any thing , whereby (d) you may be conformable to the image of the son of god , knowing this , (e) that if ye suffer with him ye shall also be glorified together . and you have never yet set a true estimate and value upon things , if you (f) reckon the sufferings of this present life worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed . which glory ought always to bear up our minds under our greatest afflictions here ; and the thoughts of that , will easily bring us to the thoughts of his sufferings , who (b) by his own blood purchased an eternal redemption for us . therefore , consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself , lest ye be weary , and faint in your minds . sermon vii . preached before the king , january . / . jude , v. . and perished in the gainsaying of corah . among all the dismal consequences of that fatal day wherein the honour of our nation suffered together with our martyr'd soveraign , there is none which in this place we ought to be more concerned for , ●han the dishonour which was done to religion by it . for if those things which were then acted among us , had been done among the most rude and barbarous nations , though that had been enough to have made them for ever thought so ; yet they might have been imputed to their ignorance in matters of civility and religion : but when they are committed not only by men who were called christians , but under a pretence of a mighty zeal for their religion too , men will either think that religion bad , which did give encouragement to such actions , or those persons extremely wicked , who could make use of a pretence of it for things so contrary to its nature and design . and on which of these two the blame will fall , may be soon discovered , when we consider that the christian religion , above all others , hath taken care to preserve the rights of soveraignty , by (a) giving unto caesar the things that are caesars , and to make resistance unlawful by declaring (b) that those who are guilty of it shall receive to themselves damnation . but as though bare resistance had been too mean and low a thing for them ( notwithstanding what christ and his apostles had said ) to shew themselves to be christians of a higher rank than others ; they imbrue their hands in the blood of their sovereign for a demonstration of their piety , by the same figure by which they had destroyed mens rights to defend their liberties , and fought against the king for preservation of his person . but the actions of such men could not have been so bad as they were , unless their pretences had been so great ; for there can be no highter aggravation of a wicked action , than for men to seem to be religious in the doing of it . if the devil himself were to preach sedition to the world , he would never appear otherwise than as an angel of light : his pretence would be unity , when he designed the greatest divisions ; and the preservation of authority , when he laid the seeds of rebellion . but we might as well imagine that the god of this world ( as the devil is sometime called ) should advance nothing but peace and holiness in it , as that christianity should give the least countenance to what is contrary to either of them . yet the wickedness of men hath been so great upon earth , as to call down heaven it self to justifie their impieties , and when they have found themselves unable to bear the burden of them , they would fain make religion do it . such as these we have a description of in this short , but smart epistle , viz men who pretend inspirations and impulses for the greatest villainies ; who believed it a part of their saintship to despise dominions , and speak evil of dignities ; who thought the grace of god signified very little , unless it serv'd to justifie their most wicked actions . these in all probability were the followers of simon magus the leviathan of the primitive church , (a) who destroyed all the natural differences of good and evil , (b) and made it lawful for men in case of persecution , to forswear their religion . (c) the great part of his doctrine being that his disciples need not be afraid of the terrours of the law , for they were free to do what they pleased themselves , because salvation was not to be expected by good works , but only by the grace of god : no wonder then , that such as these did turn the grace of god into lasciviousness : and when it proved dangerous not to do it , would deny their religion , to save themselves . for they had so high opinions of themselves , that they were the only saints , that as (d) epiphanius tells us , they thought it the casting pearls before swine , to expose themselves to danger before the heathen governours ; by which they not only discovered what a mighty value they set upon themselves , but what mean and contemptible thoughts they had of that authority which god had established in the world . but this they would by no means allow , for they thought all the governments of the world to be nothing else (a) but the contrivance of some evil spirits to abridge men of that liberty which god and nature had given them : and this is that speaking evil of dignities which they are charged with , not only by our apostle here , but by st. peter before him . although the phra●e used by (b) st. peter , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may be taken ( by the use of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the first of (c) maccabees ) not for the bare contempt of authority , expressed by reviling language , but for an open resistance of it ; which the other is so natural an introduction to , that those who think and speak contemptibly of government , do but want an occasion to manifest that their actions would be as bad as their thoughts and expressions are . and from hence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here in the words of the text is made use of to express one of the most remarkable seditions we ever read of : viz. that of corah and his company against moses and aaron ; whose punishment for it did not deter these persons who went under the name of christian , from joyning in seditious practices to the great dishonour of christianity , and their own ruine . for therefore the apostle denounces a woe against them in the beginning of the verse , and speaks of their ruine as certain as if they had been consumed by fire , or swallowed up by the earth , as corah and his accomplices were ; and they perished in the gainsaying of corah . in the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the aorist , saith grotius , is taken for the future , or present , and so implying that these courses did tend to their misery and ruine , and would unavoidably bring it upon them . if the evidence in history had been clear of the carpocratians joyning with the iews in the famous rebellion of barchochebas , wherein such multitudes of christians as well as heathens were destroyed in africa , egypt , and other places , and the time of it had agreed with the time of writing this epistle , i should then have thought that this had been the rebellion here spoken of ; for all the actors in it were destroyed by the roman power , and some of the chief of them made publick examples of justice for the deterring of others from the like practices . but however this be , we find these persons here charged with a sin of the same nature , with the gainsaying of corah , and a judgment of the same nature , as the consequent of the sin ; for they perished in the gainsaying , &c. and therefore we shall consider the words , . as relating to the fact of corah and his company . . as implying as great displeasure of god under the gospel against the same kind of sin , as he discovered in the immediate destruction of those persons who were then guilty of it . . as relating to the fact of corah and his company ; and so the words lead us to the handling . the nature of the faction which was raised by them . . the judgment that was inflicted upon them for it . . for understanding the nature of the faction , we must enquire into the design that was laid , the persons that were engaged in it , the pretences that were made use of for it . . the design that was laid for that , and all other circumstances of the story , we must have resort to the account that is given of it , numb . . where we shall find that the bottom of the design was the sharing of the government among themselves , which it was impossible for them to hope for , as long as moses continued as a king in iesurun , for so he is called , deut. . . him therefore they intend to lay aside , but this they knew to be a very difficult task , considering what wonders god had wrought by him in their deliverance out of egypt , what wisdom he had hitherto shewed in the conduct of them , what care for their preservation , what integrity in the management of his power , what reverence the people did bear towards him , and what solemn vows and promises they had made of obedience to him . but ambitious and factious men are never discouraged by such an appearance of difficulties ; for they know they must address themselves to the people , and in the first place perswade them that they manage their interest against the usurpation of their governours . for by that means they gain upon the peoples affections , who are ready to cry them up presently as the true patriots and defenders of their liberties against the encroachment of princes : and when they have thus insinuated themselves into the good opinion of the people , groundless suspicions , and unreasonable fears and jealousies will pass for arguments and demonstrations . then they who can invent the most popular lies against the government are accounted the men of integrity , and they who most diligently spread the most infamous reports , are the men of honesty , because they are farthest from being flatterers of the court. the people take a strange pride , as well as pleasure , in hearing and telling all the ●aults of their governours ; for in doing so they flatter themselves in thinking they deserve to rule much better than those which do it . and the willingness they have to think so of themselves , makes them misconstrue all the actions of their superiours to the worse sense , and then they find out plots in every thing , upon the people . whatever is done for the necessary maintenance of government , is suspected to be a design meerly to exhaust the people to make them more unable to resist . if good laws be made , these are said by factious men to be only intended for snares for the good people , but others may break them and go unpunished . if government be strict and severe , then it is cruel and tyrannical ; if mild and indulgent , then it is remiss and negligent . if laws be executed , then the peoples liberties be oppressed ; if not , then it were better not to make laws , than not to see them executed . if there be wars , the people are undone by taxes ; if there be peace , they are undone by plenty . if extraordinary judgments befall them , then they lament the sins of their governours , and of the times , and scarce think of their own . if miscarriages happen ( as it is impossible always to prevent them ) they charge the form of government with them , which all sorts are subject to . nay , it is seldom that governours escape with their own faults , the peoples are often laid upon them too . so here , numb . . . moses is charged with not carrying them into canaan , when it was their own sins which kept them thence . yea , so partial have the people generally been against their rulers , when swayed by the power of faction , that this hath made government very difficult and unpleasing ; for what ever the actions of princes are , they are liable to the censures of the people . their bad actions being more publick , and their good therefore suspected of design ; and the wiser governours are , the more jealous the people are of them . for always the weakest part of mankind are the most suspicious ; the less they understand things , the more designs they imagine are laid for them , and the best counsels are the soonest rejected by them . so that the wisest government can never be secure from the jealousies of the people , and they that will raise a faction against it will never want a party to side with them . for when could we ever have imagined a government more likely to be free from this , than that which moses had over the people of israel ? he being an extraordinary person for all the abilities of government ; one bred up in the egyptian court , and in no mean degree of honour , being called the son of pharaohs daughter ; one of great experience in the management of affairs , of great zeal for the good of his country , as appeared by the tenderness of his peoples interest in their deliverance out of egypt ; one of great temper and meekness ☞ above all men of the earth ; one who took all imaginable care for the good establishment of laws among them ; but above all these , one particularly chosen by god for this end , and therefore furnished with all the requisites of a good man , and an excellent prince : yet for all these things a dangerous sedition is here raised against him , and that upon the common grounds of such things , viz. usurpation upon the peoples rights , arbitrary government , and ill management of affairs ; usurpation upon the peoples rights , v. . the faction makes a remonstrance asserting the priviledges of the people against moses and aaron ; ye take too much upon you , seeing all the congregation are holy every one of them , and the lord is among them : wherefore then lift you up your selves above the congregation of the lord. as though they had said , we appear only in behalf of the fundamental liberties of the people both civil and spiritual ; we only seek to retrench the exorbitances of power , and some late innovations which have been among us ; if you are content to lay aside your power which is so dangerous and offensive to gods holy people , we shall then sit down in quietness ; for alas it is not for our selves that we seek these things ( what are we ? ) but the cause of gods people is dearer to us than our lives , and we shall willingly sacrifice them in so good a cause . and when moses afterwards sends for the sons of eliab to come to him they peremptorily refuse all messages of peace , and with their (a) men of the sword mentioned , v. . they make votes of non-addresses , and break off all treaties with him , and declare these for their reasons , that he did dominando dominari , as some render it , exercise an arbitrary and tyrannical power over the people , that he was guilty of breach of the trust committed to him , for he promised (b) to bring them into a land flowing with milk and honey , or give them inheritance of fields and vineyards , but he had not done it , and instead of that only , deceives the people still with fair prom●ses , and so puts out their eyes that they cannot see into the depth of his designs . so that now by the ill management of his trust , the power was again devolved into the hands of the people , and they ought to take account of his actions . by which we see the design was under very fair and popular pretences to divest moses of his government , and then they doubted not but such zealous patriots as they had shewed themselves , should come to have the greatest share in it ; but this which they most aimed at , must appear least in view , and only necessity and providence must seem to cast that upon them , which was the first true motive they had to rebel against moses and aaron . . the persons who were engaged in it . at first they were only some discontented levites who murmured against moses and aaron , because they were not preferred to the priesthood , and of these corah was the chief . r. solomon observes , that the reason of corahs discontent , was , that elizaphan the son of vzziel , of the younger house to izhar from whom corah descended , was preferred before him by moses to be prince over the sons of (a) kohath , corah being active and busie in his discontents , had the opportunity of drawing in some of the sons of reuben , for they pitched their tents near each other , (b) both on the south side of the tabernacle of the congregation ; and these were discontentented on the account of their tribe having lost the priviledge of primogeniture . thus what ever the pretences are , how fair and popular soever in the opposition men make to authority , ambition and private discontents are the true beginners of them : but these must be covered over with the deepest dissimulation , with most vehement protestations to the contrary , nothing must be talked of but a mighty zeal for religion , and the publick interest . so (a) iosephus tells us concerning corah , that while he carried on his own ambitious designs , with all the arts of sedition and a popular eloquence , insinuating into the peoples minds strange suggestions against moses his government , as being a meer politick design of his to enslave the people of god , and advance his own family and interest , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he would seem to regard nothing but the publick good . if fair pretences , and glorious titles will serve to cheat the people into their own miseries , and ●he sad effects of rebellion ; they shall never want those who will enslave them ●or the sake of liberty , undo them for ●he publick good , and destroy them with designs of reformation . for nothing is ●ore popular than rebellion in the beginning ; nothing less in the issue of it . and the only true reason that it is ever 〈◊〉 , is from the want of wisdom and judgment in the generality of mankind , who seldom see to the end of things , and hardly distinguish between the names and nature of them , till their own dea● bought experience hath taught them the difference . sedition is of the nature , and hath the inseparable properties o● sin ; for it is conceived with pleasure , brought forth with pain , and ends in death and misery . nothing enters upon the stage with a braver shew and appearance , but however prosperous for a time it may continue , it commonly meets with a fatal end . but it is with this sin as to this world , as it is with others as to the next ; men when they are betrayed into them , are carried away and transported with the pleasing temptations , not considering the unspeakable misery that follows after them . so that what the devils advantage is in order to the ruin o● mens souls , is the advantage of seditious persons over the less understanding people ; they both tempt with an appearance of good , and equally deceive the● which hearken to them . but as we st●● find , that notwithstanding all the grav● admonitions , the sober councels , the rational discourses , the perswasive arg●ments which are used to deter men fro● the practice of sin , they will still be such fools to yield to the devils temptations against their own welfare : so , neither the blessings of a continued peace , nor the miseries of an intestine war , neither the security of a setled government , nor the constant danger of innovations will hinder men of fiery and restless spirits from raising combustions in a nation , though themselves perish in the flames of them . this we find here was the case of corah and his company ; they had forgotten the groans of their captivity in egypt , and the miracles of their deliverance out of it , and all the faithful services of moses , and aaron ; they considered not the difficulties of government , nor the impossibilities of satisfying the ambitious desires of all pretenders ; they regarded not that god from whom their power was derived , nor the account they m●st give to him for their resistance of it : nothing but a full revenge upon the government can satisfie them , by leaving no means unattempted for its overthrow , though themselves be consumed by the fall of it . it were happy for government if these turbulent spirits could be singled out from the rest in their first attempts ; but that is the usual subtilty of such men , when they find themselves aimed at , they run into the common herd , and perswade the people that they are equally concerned with themselves in the present danger , that though the pretence be only against faction and sedition , the design is the slavery and oppression of the people . this they manage at first by grave nods , and secret whispers , by deep sighs , and extatick motions , by far fetched discourses , and tragical stories , till they find the people capable of receiving their impressions , and then seem most unwilling to mention that which it was at first their design to discover . by such arts as these corah had prepared , as (a) iosephus tells us , almost the whole camp of israel for a popular tumult , so that they were like to have stoned moses before he was aware of it ; and it seems the faction had gained a mighty interest among the people , when although god so severely and remarkably punished the heads of it , yet the very next day all the congregation of the children of israel murmured against moses and aaron , saying , (b) ye have killed the people of the lord. what a mark of god's people was sedition grown among them ! when these men were accounted saints in spight of heaven , and martyrs , though god himself destroyed them . they were men who were only sanctified by rebellion : and shewed no other fruits of their piety but disobedience to authority . but the danger had not been so great , how loud soever the complaints had been , if only the ruder multitude had been gained to the favour of corah and his party : for these wanted heads to manage them , and some countenance of authority to appear under ; and for this purpose they had drawn to their faction princes of the assembly , (a) famous in the congregation , men of renown , i. e. members of the great council of the nation . whom moses was wont to call and advise with about the publick affairs of it ; such who sa●e in comitiis senatorum , as paul. eagius tells us , therefore said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 such as were called to the great assembly which sate in (b) parliament at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation , which was the place where they m●t together . these were the heads of the tribes , and the captains of thousands , and the men of the greatest fame and authority among the people , who moses assembled together for advice and counsel , as often as he saw just occasion for it . and as far as i can find were distinct from the great sanhedrin , which seemed to be rather a constant court of iudicature which sate to receive appeals from inferiour courts , and to determine such difficult causes which were reserved peculiarly for it , as about apostasie of a whole tribe , the case of false prophets , and the like . but these men did far exceed the whole number of the sanhedrin ; and the heads of the tribes , and the elders of israel were summoned together upon any very weighty occasion , by moses both before and after the institution of the sanhedrin . and now since the faction had gained so great strength by the accession of so great a number of the most leading men among the people , we may expect they should soon declare their intentions , and publish the grounds of their entring into such a combination against moses . . which is the next thing to be spoken to , viz. the colours and pretences under which these persons sought to justifie the proceedings of the faction . which were these two . . the asserting the rights and liberties of the people in opposition to the government of moses . . the freeing themselves from the encroachments upon their spiritual priviledges , which were made by the vsurpations of aaron and the priesthood . . the asserting the rights and liberties of the people in opposition to the government of moses . (a) is it a small thing , say they , that thou hast brought us up out of a land that floweth with milk and honey , to kill us in the wilderness , except thou make thy self altogether a prince over us ? and before , their charge was , (b) that moses and aaron took too much upon them , in lifting up themselves above the congregation of the lord. which (c) iosephus more at large explains , telling us that the great accusation of moses was , that out of his ambition and affectation of power , he had taken upon himself the government of the people without their consent , that he made use of his pretence o● familiarity with god only for a politick end , that by this means he debarred the people of that liberty which god had given them , and no man ought to take from them , that they were all a (a) free-born people , and equally the children of abraham , and therefore there was no reason they should depend upon the will of a single person , who by his politick arts had brought them to the greatest necessities , that he might rule them the better ; wherefore corah , as though he had been already president of a high court of iustice upon moses their king , determines , that it was necessary for the common wealth , that such enemies to the publick interest should be discovered and punished ; lest if they be let alone in their vsurpations of power , they declare themselves open enemies when it will be too late to oppose them . there were then two great principles among them by which they thought to defend themselves . . that liberty and a right to power is so inherent in the people , that it cannot be taken from them . . that in case of vsurpation upon that liberty of the people , they may resume the exercise of power , by punishing those who are guilty of it . . that liberty , and a right to power , is inseparable from the people ; libertatis patrocinium suscipiunt , saith calvin , upon corah and his company ; and i believe they will be found to be the first ass●rtors of this kind of liberty that ever were in the world . and happy had it been for us in this nation , if corah had never found any disciples in it . for what a blessed liberty was this which corah aimed at , viz. to change one excellent prince , as moses was , for tyrants , besides corah and the sons of reuben ? what just and equal liberty was it which moses did deprive them of ? it was only the liberty of destroying themselves , which all the power he had could hardly keep them from . could there be any greater liberty than delivering them out of the house of bondage ? and was not moses the great instrument in effecting it ? could there be greater liberty than for their whole nation to be preserved from all the designs of their enemies to enjoy their own laws , and matters of iustice to be duly administred amongst them ? and had they not all these under the government of moses ? what means then this out-cry for liberty ? is it that they would have had no government at all among them , but that every one might have done what he pleased himself ? this indeed were a desirable liberty , if a man could have it alone : but when every one thinks that he is but one , though he be free ; and every one else is as free as he , but though their freedom be equal to his , his power is not equal to theirs ; and therefore to bring things to a more just proportion , every one must part with some power for a great deal of security . if any man can imagine himself in such a state of confusion , which some improperly call a state of nature ; let him consider , whether the contentment he could take in his own liberty and power to defend himself , would ballance the fears he would have of the injury which others in the same state might be able to do him . not that i think meer fear made men at first enter into societies , for there is a natural inclination in mankind to it , and one of the greatest pleasures of humane life lies in the enjoyment of it . but what other considerations incline men to , fear makes reasonable , though men part with some supposed liberty for the enjoyment of it . so that the utmost liberty is destroyed by the very nature of government , and nothing can be more unreasonable than for men to quarrel with government for that , which they cannot enjoy and the preservation of themselves together . which alone makes the desire of power reasonable , and if the preservation of our selves in our rights and properties may be had without it , all that the want of liberty signifies , is , that men have all the conveniences of power without the trouble and the cares of it . and if this be not a more desirable liberty than the other , let any rational man judge . the pretence of liberty then in this sense against government , is , that men are fools in taking the best care to preserve themselves , that laws are but instruments of slavery , and every single man is better able to defend himself , than the united strength of a people in society is to defend him . and this kind of liberty we may justly think will be desired by none but mad-men , and beasts of prey . it follows then , that what liberty is inconsistent with all government , must never be pleaded against one sort of it . but is there then so great a degree of liberty in one mode of government more than another , that it should be thought reasonable to disturb government , meerly to alter the form of it ? would it have been so much better for the people of israel to have been governed by the men here mentioned , than by moses ? would not they have required the same subjection and obedience to themselves , though their commands had been much more unreasonable than his ? what security can there be that every one of these shall not be worse in all respects than him whom they were so willing to lay aside ; and if one be thought troublesome , what liberty and ease is there when their name is legion ? so that the folly of these popular pretences is as great as the sin in being perswaded by them . and it may be they have not thought amiss who have attributed a great part of that disturbance of the peace of kingdoms , under a pretence of popular government , to an unjust admiration of those greek and roman writers , who have unreasonably set up liberty in opposition to monarchy . but some of the wisest of them have given us a truer account of these things , and have told us , that it was impossible the roman state could have been preserved longer , unless it had submitted to an (a) imperial power ; for the popular heats and factions were so great , that the annual election of magistrates , was but another name for a tumult ; and as dio goes on (b) the name of popular government is far more plausible , but the benefits of monarchy are far greater ; it being much easier to find one good than many ; and though one be accounted difficult , the other is almost impossible . and as he elsewhere well observes , the flourishing of a common-wealth depends upon its poverty ; that being alone able to unite the minds of the governours , who in a plentiful state , not set about with enemies , will be grasping at their own private interests , and fall naturally from thence into divisions and animosities ; but the flourishing of the monarchy lies in the riches of it , the prince and the people having the same interest , and being rich or poor together . so that we see the notion of liberty , and the exercise of power in government , is so far from being an inseperable property of the people , that the proper notion of it is inconsistent with government , and that which lies in the enjoyments of our rights and properties , is so far from being inconsistent with monarchy , that they are more advanced by that , than by any other way of government . . another principle which tends to the subverting government under a pretence of liberty , is , that in case of vsurpation upon the rights of the people , they may resume the exercise of power , and punish the supreme magistrate himself , if he be guilty of it . than which there can be no principle imagined more destructive to civil societies , and repugnant to the very nature of government . for it destroys all the obligations of oaths and compacts ; it makes the solemnest bonds of obedience signifie nothing when the people shall think fit to declare it : it makes every prosperous rebellion just ; for no doubt when the power is in the rebels hands , they will justifie themselves , and condemn their soveraign . ( and if corah , dathan and abiram had succeeded in their rebellion against moses , no doubt they would have been called the keepers of the liberties of israel . ) it makes all government dangerous to the persons in whom it is , considering the unavoidable infirmities of it , and the readiness of people to misconstrue the actions of their princes , and their incapacity to judge of them ; it not being fit that the reasons of all counsels of princes should be divulged by proclamations . so that there can be nothing wanting to make princes miserable , but that the people want power to make them so . and the supposition of this principle will unavoidably keep up a constant jealousie between the prince and his people : for if he knows their minds , he will think it reasonable to secure himself by all means against their power , and endeavour to keep them as unable to resist as may be : whereby all mutual confidence between a prince and his people will be destroyed : and there can be no such way to bring in an arbitrary government into a nation , as that which such men pretend , to be the only means to keep it out . besides , this must necessarily engage a nation in endless disputes about the forfeiture of power into whose hands it falls : whether into the people in common , or some persons particularly chosen by the people for that purpose : for in an established government according to their principles , the ●ing himself is the true representative of the people ; others may be chosen for some particular purposes , as proposing laws , &c. but these cannot pretend by vertue of that choice , to have the full power of the people ; and withal , whatever they do against the consent of the people is unlawful ; and their power is forfeited by attempting it . but on the other side , what mighty danger can there be in supposing the persons of princes to be so sacred , that no sons of violence ought to come near to hurt them ? have not all the ancient kingdoms and empires of the world flourished under the supposition of an unaccountable power in princes ? that hath been thought by those who did not own a derivation of their power from god , but a just security to their persons , considering the hazards , and the care of government which they undergo ? have not the people who have been most jealous of their liberties , been fain to have recourse to an unaccountable power , as their last refuge in case of their greatest necessities ? i mean the romans in their dictators . and if it were thought not only reasonable , but necessary then , ought it not to be preserved inviolable , where the same laws do give it by which men have any right to challenge any power at all ? neither doth this give princes the liberty to do what they list ; for the laws by which they govern , do fence in the rights and properties of men ; and princes do find so great conveniency , ease and security in their government by law , that the sense of that will keep them far better within the compass of laws , than the peoples holding a rod over them , which the best princes are like to suffer the most by , and bad will but grow desperate by it . good princes will never need such a curb , because their oaths and promises , their love and tenderness towards their people , the sense they have of a power infinitely greater than theirs , to which they must give an account of all their actions , will make them govern as the fathers of their country ; and bad princes will never value it , but will endeavour by all possible means to secure themselves against it . so that no inconveniency can be possibly so great on the supposition of this unaccountable power in soveraign princes , taking it in the general , and meerly on the account of reason , as the unavoidable mischiefs of that hypotheses , which places all power originally in the people , and notwithstanding all oaths and bonds whatsoever to obedience , gives them the liberty to resume it when they please : which will always be when that spirit of faction and sedition shall prevail among them , which ruled here in corah and his company . . another pretence of this rebellion of corah , was , the freeing themselves from the encroachments upon their spiritual priviledges which were made by the usurpations of aaron and the priesthood . this served ●or a very popular pretence , for they knew no reason that one tribe should engross so much of the wealth of the nation to themselves , and have nothing to do but to attend the service of god for it . what , say they , are not all the lord's people holy ? why may not then all they offer up incense to the lord , as well as the sons of aaron ? how many publick uses might those revenues serve for , which are now to maintain aaron , and all the sons of levi ? but if there must be some to attend the service of god , why may not the meanest of the people serve for that purpose , those who can be serviceable for nothing else ? why must there be an order of priesthood distinct from that of levites ? why a high priest above all the priests ? what is there in all their office which one of the common people may not do as well as they ? cannot they slay the sacrifices , and offer incense , and d● all other parts of the priestly office ? so that at last they make all this to be a politick design of moses only to advance his own family by making his brother high-priest , and to have all the priests and levites at his devotion , to keep the people the better in awe . this hath always bee● the quarrel at religion , by those who seldom pretend to it , but with a design t● destroy it . for who would ever have minded the constant attendance at the temple , if no encouragements had been given to those who were imployed in it ? or is not religion apt enough to be despised of it self , by men of prophane minds , unless it be rendred more mean and contemptible by the poverty of those who are devoted to it ? shall not god be allowed the priviledge of every master of a family , to appoint the ranks and orders of his own servants , and to take care they be provided for , as becomes those who wait upon him ? what a dishonour had this been to the true god , when those who worshipped false gods thought nothing too great for those who were imployed in the service of them ? but never any yet cryed , but he that had a mind to betray his master , to what purpose is all this waste ? let god be honoured as he ought to be , let religion come in for its share among all the things which deserve encouragement , and those who are employed in the offices of it , enjoy but what god , and reason , and the laws of their country give them , and then we shall see it was nothing , but the discontent and faction of corah and his company which made any encroachment of aaron and the priesthood any pretence for rebellion . but all these pretences would not serve to make them escape the severe hand of divine justice ; for in an extraordinary and remarkable manner he made them suffer the just desert of their sin , for they perished in their contradiction : which is the next thing to be considered , viz. . the iudgment which was inflicted upon them for it . they had provoked heaven by their sin , and disturbed the earth by their faction ; and the earth , as if it were moved with indignation against them , trembled and shook , as iosephus saith , like waves that are tossed with a mighty wind , and then with a horrid noise it rends asunder , and opens its mouth to swallow those in its bowels who were unfit to live upon the face of it . they had been dividing the people , and the earth to their amazement and ruine divides it self under their feet , as though it had been design'd on purpose , that in their punishment themselves might feel , and others see the mischief of their sin . their seditious principles seemed to have infected the ground they stood upon ; the earth of a sudden proves as unquiet and troublesome as they ; but to rebuke their madness , it was only in obedience to him who made it the executioner of his wrath against them ; and when it had done its office , it is said , (a) that the earth closed upon them , and they perished from among the congregation . thus the earth having revenged it self against the disturbers of its peace , heaven presently appears with a flaming fire , taking vengeance upon the men , who in opposition to (b) aaron , had usurped the priestly office , in offering incense before the lord. such a fire , if we believe the same historian , which far outwent the most dreadful eruptions of aetna or vesuvius , which neither the art of man , nor the power of the wind could raise ; which neither the burning of woods nor cities could parallel ; but such a fire which the wrath of god alone could kindle , whose light could be outdone by nothing but the heat of it . thus heaven and earth agree in the punishment of such disturbers of government , and god by this remarkable judgment upon them hath left it upon record to all ages , that all the world may be convinced how displeasing to him the sin of faction and sedition is . for god takes all this that was done against moses and aaron , as done against himself . for they are said to be gathered together against the lord , v. . to provoke the lord , v. . and the fire is said to come out from the lord : v. . and a●terwards it is said of them ; (a) this is that moses and dathan and abiram , who strove against moses and against aaron in the company of corah , when they strove against the lord. by which we see god interprets striving against the authority appointed by him , to be a striving against himself . god looks upon himself as immediately concerned in the government of the world ; for by him princes raign , and they are his vicegerents upon earth ; and they who resist , resist not a meer appointment of the people , but (b) an ordinance of god ; and they who do so shall in the mildest sense receive a severe punishment from him . let the pretences be never so popular , the persons never so great and famous ; nay , though they were of the great council of the nation , yet we see god doth not abate of his severity upon any of these considerations . this was the first formed sedition that we read of against moses , the people had been murmuring before , but they wanted heads to manage them : now all things concur to a most dangerous rebellion upon the most popular pretences of religion and liberty ; and now god takes the first opportunity of declaring his hatred of such actions ; that others might hear , and fear , and do no more so presumptuously . this hath been the usual method of divine judgments ; the first of the kind hath been most remarkably punished in this life , that by it they may see how hateful such things are to god ; but if men will venture upon them notwithstanding , god doth not always punish them so much in this world , ( though he sometimes doth ) but reserves them , without repentance , to his justice in the world to come . the first man that sinned was made an example of god's justice ; the first world ; the first publick attempt against heaven at babel after the plantation of the world again ; the first cities which were so generally corrupted after the flood ; the first breaker of the sabbath after the law ; the first o●●erers with strange fire ; the first lookers into the ark , and here the first popular rebellion and usurpers of the office of priesthood god doth hereby intend to preserve the honour of his laws ; he gives men warning enough by ore exemplary punishment , and if notwithstanding that , they will commit the same sin , they may thank themselves if they suffer for it , if not in this life , yet in that to come . and that good effect this judgment had upon that people , that although the next day suffered for murmuring at the destruction of these men , yet we do not find that any rebellion was raised among them afterwards upon these popular pretences of religion , and the power of the people . while their judges continued ( who were kings , without the state and title of kings ) they were observed with reverence , and obeyed with diligence . when afterwards they desired a king , with all the pomp and grandeur which other nations had ( which samuel acquaints them with , viz. (a) the officers and souldiers , the large revenues he must have ) though their king was disowned by god , yet the people held firm in their obedience to him , and david himself , though anointed to be king , persecuted by saul , and though he might have pleaded necessity and providence as much as any ever could , ( when saul was strangely delivered into his hands , ) yet we see what an opinion he had of the person of a bad king , (b) the lord forbid that i should do this thing against my master the lord 's anointed , to stretch forth my hand against him , seeing he is the anointed of the lord. and lest we should think it was only his modesty or his policy which kept him from doing it , he afterwards , upon a like occasion declares , it was only the sin of doing it , which kept him from it . (a) for who can stretch forth his hand against the lords anointed and be guiltless ? not as though david could not do it without the power of the sanhedrin , as it hath been pretended by the sons of corah in our age ; for he excepts none ; he never seizes upon him to carry him prisoner to be tryed by the sanhedrin , nor is there any foundation for any such power in the sanhedrin over the persons of their soveraigns . it neither being contained in the grounds of its institution , nor any precedent occurring in the whole story of the bible , which gives the least countenance to it : nay , several passages of scripture utterly overthrow it , for how could solomon have said , (b) where the word of a king is , there is power ; and who may say unto him , what dost thou ? if by the constitution of their government , the sanhedrin might have controlled him in what he said or did . but have not several of the modern iews said so ? granting that some have ; yet so they have spoken many unreasonable and foolish things besides ; but yet none of these have said , that it was in the power of the sanhedrin to depose their kings , or put them to death ; all that they say is , that in the cases expressed by the law , if the kings do transgress , the sanhedrin had the power of inflicting the penalty of scourging , which yet they deny to have had any infamy in it among them . but did not david transgress the law in his murder and adultery ? did not solomon in the multitude of his wives and idolatry , yet where do we read that the sanhedrin ever took cognizance of these things ? and the more ancient iews do say , (a) that the king was not to be judged , as is plain in the text of the misna , however the expositors have taken a liberty to contradict it ; but as far as we can find , without any foundation of reason : and r. ieremiah in (b) nachmanides , saith expresly , that no creature may judge the king , but the holy and blessed god alone . but we have an authority far greater than his , viz. of david's in this case , who after he hath denied that any man can stretch forth his hand against the lord 's anointed , and be guiltless ; in the very next words he submits the judgment of him only to god himself , saying , (a) as the lord liveth , the lord shall smite him , or his day shall come to die , or he shall descend into battle and perish . he thought it sufficient to leave the judgment of those things to god , whose power over princes he knew was enough , if well considered by them , to keep them in awe . we have now dispatched the first consideration of the words of the text , as they relate to the fact of corah and his company . . we ought now to enquire , whether the christian doctrine hath made any alteration in these things ; or whether that gives any greater encouragement to faction and sedition than the law did , when it is masked under a pretence of zeal for religion and liberty . but it is so far from it , that what god then declared to be displeasing to him by such remarkable judgments , hath been now more fully manifested by frequent precepts , and vehement exhortations , by the most weighty arguments , and the constant practice of the first and the best of christians , and by the black character which is set upon those who under a pretence of christian liberty did despise dominion , and speak evil of dignities , and follow corah in his rebellion , however they may please themselves with greater light , than former ages had in this matter , they are said to be such (b) for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever . it would take up too much time to examine the frivolous evasions , and ridiculous distinctions by which they would make the case of the primitive christians in not resisting authority , so much different from theirs , who have not only done it , but in spight of christianity have pleaded for it . either they said they wanted strength , or courage , or the countenance of the senate , or did not understand their own liberty ; when all their obedience was only due to those precepts of the gospel , which make it so great a part of christianity to be subject to principalities and powers , and which the teachers of the gospel had particularly given them in charge (a) to put the people in mind of . and happy had it been for us if this doctrine had been more sincerely preached , and duly practised in this nation ; for we should then never have seen those sad times , which we can now no otherwi●e think of , than of the devouring fire , and raging pestilence , i. e. of such dreadful judgments which we have smarted so much by , that we heartily pray we may never feel them again : for then fears and jealousies began our miseries , and the curse so often denounced against meroz , fell upon the whole nation ; when the sons of corah managed their own ambitious designs against moses and aaron ( the king and the church ) under the same pretences of religion and liberty . and when the pretence of religion was broken into schisms , and liberty into oppression of the people , it pleased god out of his secret and unsearchable judgments to suffer the sons of violence to prevail against the lord 's anointed ; and then they would know no difference between his being conquered and guilty . they could find no way to justifie their former wickedness , but by adding more : the consciousness of their own guilt , and the fears of the punishment due to it , made them unquiet and thoughtful , as long as his life and presence did upbraid them with the one , and made them fearful of the other . and when they found the greatness and constancy of his mind , the firmness of his piety , the zeal he had for the true interest of the people , would not suffer him to betray his trust for the saving of his life ; they charge him with their own guilt , and make him suffer because they had deserved to do it . and as if it had not been enough to have abused the names of religion and liberty before , they resolve to make the very name of iustice to suffer together with their king : by calling that infamous company , who condemned their soveraign , a high court of iustice , which trampled under foot the laws both of god and men . but lest the world should imagine they had any shame left in their sins , they make the people witnesses of his murther ; and pretend the power of the people for doing that , which they did detest and abhor . thus fell our royal martyr a sacrifice to the fury of unreasonable men ; who either were so blind as not to see his worth , or rather so bad as to hate him for it . and as god gave once to the people of the iews a king in his anger , being provoked to it by their sins , we have cause to say , that upon the same account he took away one of the best of kings from us in his wrath . but blessed be that god , who in the midst of judgment was pleased to remember mercy , in the miraculous preservation , and glorious restauration of our gracious sovereign ; let us have a care then of abusing the mercies of so great a deliverance to quite other ends than god intended it for ; lest he be provoked to say to us , as he did of old to the iews , (a) but if ye shall still do wickedly , ye shall be consumed , both ye and your king. and if we look on this as a dreadful judgment , let us endeavour to prevent it by a timely and sincere reformation of our lives , and by our hearty supplications to god that he would preserve the person of our soveraign from all the attempts of violence , that he would so direct his counsels , and prosper his affairs , that his government may be a long and publick blessing to these nations . sermon viii . preached at guild hall chappel . june th . . matthew xxi . . therefore say i unto you , the kingdom of god shall be taken from you , and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof . the time was now very near approaching , wherein the son of god was to suffer an accursed death by the hands of ungrateful men : and to let them see that he laid no impossible command upon men when he bid them (a) love their enemies , he expresses the truest kindness himsel● towards those who designed his destruction . for what can be imagined greater towards such , whose malice was like to end in nothing short of their own ruine , than by representing to them the evils they must suffer , to disswade them from that , which they intended to do ? but if neither the sense of their future miseries , nor their present sins will at all abate their fury or asswage their malice , nothing is then lest for kindness to shew it self by , but by lamenting their folly , bemoaning their obstinacy , and praying god to have pity upon them , who have so little upon themselves . and all these were very remarkable in the carriage of our blessed saviour towards his most implacable enemies : he had taken care to instruct them by his doctrine ; to convince them by his miracles , to oblige them by the first offers of the greatest mercy ; but all these things had no other effect upon them , than to heighten their malice , increase their rage , and make them more impatient till they had destroyed him . but their stupidity made him more sensible of their folly , and their obstinacy stirred up his compassion towards them , insomuch that the nearer he approached to his own sufferings , the greater sense he expressed of theirs . for he was no sooner come within view of that bloody city , wherein he was within few days to suffer by , as well as for the sins of men ; but his compassion breaks forth , not only by his weeping over it ; but by that passionate expression , which is abrupt only by the force of his grief : (a) if thou hadst known , even thou at least in this thy day the things which belong unto thy peace ! but now they are hid from thine eyes . and when he was within the city , he could not mention the desolation which was to come upon it for all the righteous blood which had been spilt there , but he presently subjoyns , (b) o hierusalem , hierusalem , thou that killest the prophets , and stonest them which are sent unto thee , how often would i have gathered thy childre● together , as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings and ye would not ? what words could more emphatically expres● the love and tenderness of christ towards his greatest enemies than these do ▪ especially considering that he knew how busie they were in contriving his sufferings , while he was so passionately lame●ting theirs . and when their malice ha● done its utmost upon him , and they sa●● him hanging upon the cross and read● to yield up his last breath , he imploys th● remainder of it in begging pardon fo● them , in those pathetical words (a) father , forgive them for they know not what they do . by all which we see , that what punishments soever the jewish nation underwent afterwards for the great sin of crucifying the lord of life , were no effect of meer revenge from him upon them , but the just judgment of god which they had drawn upon themselves by their own obstinacy and wilful blindness . and that they might not think themselves surprized , when the dreadful effects of god's anger should seize upon them , our saviour as he drew nearer to the time of his sufferings gives them more frequent and serious warnings of the sad consequence of their incorrgibleness under all the means of cure which had been used among them . for they were so far from being amended by them , that they not only despised the remedy , but the physicians too ; ( as though that were a small thing ) they beat , they wound , they kill those who came to cure them : but as if it had not been enough to have done these things to servants , ( to let the world see how dangerous it is to attempt the cure of incorrigible sinners ) when god sent his own son to them , expecting they should reverence him , they find a peculiar reason for taking him out of the way , (a) for then the inheritance would be their own . but so miserably do sinners miscarry in their designs for their advantage , that those things which they build their hopes the most upon prove the most fatal and pernicious to them : when these persons thought themselves sure of the inheritance by killing the son , that very sin of theirs , not only put them out of possession , but out of the hopes of recovering what interest they had in it before . for upon this it is that our saviour here saith in the words of the text , therefore say i unto you , that the kingdom of god shall be taken from you and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof . which words , are the application which our saviour makes of the foregoing parable concerning the vineyard , which it seems the chief priests and pharisees , did not apprehend themselves to be concerned in , till he brought the application of it so close to them ; so that then they find they had condemned themselves , when they so readily passed so severe a sentence upon those husbandmen , who had so ill requited the lord of the vineyard for all the care he had taken about it , that instead of sending him the fruits of it , they abuse his messengers , and at last murther his son. when therefore christ asks them , (a) when the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh , what will he do unto those husbandmen ? they thought the case so plain , that they never take time to consider , or go forth ●o advise upon it , but bring in a present answer upon the evidence of the fact . (b) they say unto him , he will miserably destroy those wicked men , and will let out his vineyard to other husbandmen , which shall render him the fruits in their seasons . little did they think what a dreadful sentence they passed upon themselves and their own nation in these words ; little did they think that hereby they condemned their temple to be burned , their city to be destroyed , their coun●ry to be ruined ; their nation to be vagabonds over the face of the earth ; little did they think that herein they justified god in all the miseries which they suffered afterwards , for in these words they vindicate god and condemn themselves , they acknowledge god's justice in the severest punishments he should inflict upon such obstinate wretches . our saviour having gained this confession from them , and so made it impossible for them to start back in charging god with injustice in punishing them ; he now applies it to themselves in these words , which i suppose , ought immediately to follow the . verse , therefore say i unto you the kingdom of god shall be taken from you , &c. wherein we have , . the greatest judgment which can ever befal a people , which is the taking away the kingdom of god from them . . the greatest mercy can ever be vouchsafed to a nation , which is god's giving his kingdom to it . and give it to a nation , &c. in the judgment we consider the cause of it , therefore say i unto you , &c. which is either , more general as referring to all going before , and so it makes the taking away the kingdom of god to be the just punishment of an incorrigible people ; or more particular as referring to the sin of the jews in crucifying christ , and so it makes the guilt of that sin to be the cause of all the miseries , which that nation hath undergone since that time . in the latter part we may consider the terms upon which god either gives or continues his kingdom to a nation , and that is , bringing forth the fruits thereof . we consider the former with a particular respect to the state of the jewish nation . and therein , . the greatness of their judgment implyed in those words the kingdom of god , &c. . the particular reason of that judgment , which was crucifying the son of god. . the greatness of the judgment which be●el the jewish nation after imbruing their hands in the blood of christ. and that will appear if we take the kingdom of god in that double notion in which it was taken at that time . . it was taken by the jews themselves for some peculiar and temporal blessings , which those who enjoyed it had above all other people . . it was taken by our saviour for a clearer manifestation of the will of god to the world , and the consequence of that in the hearts of good men ; and all the spiritual blessings which do attend it . so that the taking away the kingdom of god from them must needs be the heaviest judgment which could befal a people , since it implies in it , the taking away all the greatest temporal and spiritual blessings . . we take it in the notion the jews themselves had of it ; and in this sense we shall make it evident that the kingdom of god hath been taken from that people in accomplishment of this prediction of our saviour . for they imagined the kingdom of god among them to consist in these things especially , deliverance from their enemies , a flourishing state , the upholding their religion in honour , chiefly in the pompous worship of the temple , now if instead of these things , they were exposed to the fury of their enemies so as never any nation besides them were , if their whole poli●y was destroyed so as the very face of government hath ever since been taken from them , if their religion hath been so far from being upheld , that the practice of it hath been rendred impossible by the destruction of the temple , and the consequences of it , then the jews themselves cannot but say , that in their own sense the kingdom of god hath been taken from them . . they make the kingdom of god to consist in a deliverance of them from their enemies . for this was their great quarrel at our saviour that he should pretend to bri●g the kingdom of god among them , and do nothing in order to their deliverance from the roman power . they either were such great admirers of the pomp and splendor of the world , or so sensible of their own burdens and the yoke that was upon them , that they could not be perswaded that god should design to send his kingdom among them for any other end but their ease and liberty . they apprehended the crown of thorns which was put upon our saviour's head was the fittest representation of the nature of his kingdom ; for they looked upon it as the meer shew of a kingdom , but the reality was nothing but affliction and tribulation ; and this was a doctrine they thought of all others the least needful to be preached to them , who complained so much of what they underwent already . they took it for the greatest contradiction to talk of a kingdom among them , as long as they were in subjection to the roman governours . but if jesus of nazareth had raised an army in defence of their liberty , and had destroyed the romans , they would never have enquired farther concerning prophecies , or miracles , this had been instead of all others to them , and then they would willingly have given him that title , which was set up only in derision as the elogium of his cross , iesus of nazareth king of the iews : but we see how justly god dealt with them soon after , when they crucified the son of god because he preached another kingdom than they dreamed of , god suffers this very pretence of a temporal kingdom to be the occasion of the ruine of the whole nation . for upon that it was that they denied subjection to the romans , for they were for no other kingdom but only god's , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to acknowledge no other king but god , was the pretence of the war : ) upon which arose that desperate faction of the zealots , who like so many firebrands scattered up and down among them , soon put the whole nation into flames . and from this time there never was a more tragical story either acted or written than that is of the miseries which this people underwent . for if ever there were the marks of divine vengeance seen in the ruine of a nation , they were in that . for they were so far from hearkening to the counsel of their wisest men , that the first thing they made sure of , was the destruction of them . wisdom was but another name for treason among them : and there needed no other evidence to take away the lives of any , but to say that they were rich and wise . when they had thus secured themselves ( as they thought ) against the danger of too much wisdom , by the removal of all such , who at least did not counterfeit madness and folly by joyning with them ; then they began to suspect one another , and three factions at once break forth at hierusalem , who seemed to be afraid the romans should not destroy them fast enough , for in the several parts of the city where they were , they were continually killing one another : and never joyned together but when they saw the romans approaching their walls , least they should take that work out of each others hands . by all means they were resolv'd to endure a seige , and as a preparative for that , they burnt up almost all the stores of provision which were among them : whence ensued a most dreadful famine , so great , that it was thought reason enough to take away the life of a man , because he looked better than his neighbours , they thereby suspecting he had some concealed provisions . they brake into the houses of such whom they imagined to be eating , and if they found them so , they either forced the meat out of their mouths , or choaked them with attempting to do it . it was no news then for a woman to forget her sucking child , so as not to have compassion upon the son of her womb : for the story is remarkable in (a) iosephus , of a mother that not only eat part of her son , who sucked at her breast , but when the smell had tempted some to break in upon her and take part with her , and were struck with horror at the sight of it , what , saith she , will you shew your selves more tender than a woman , or more compassionate than a mother ! it was no news to see parents and children destroying one another for a piece of bread , to see the streets and tops of houses covered with the bodies of those who dropt down for want of food , in-so-much that the stench of their carcases soon brought a plague among them : which and the famine raged together with that violence , that when there was no possibility of burying their dead , they threw them over the walls of the city , and titus beholding the incredible numbers of them lift up his hands to heaven and cryed , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that it was none of his doing . for he used all possible means to prevent the ruine of the city and temple as well as the destruction of the people : but all to no purpose , for now the time of god's vengeance was come , yea the full time of his wrath was come . so that titus often confessed , he never saw such an instance of divine vengeance upon a people , that when their enemies designed to save them , they were resolved to destroy themselves . and (a) philostratus tells us , that when the neighbour provinces offered titus a crown , in token of his conquest of iudaea , he utterly refused it with this saying , that he had nothing to do in the glory of that action , for he was only the instrument of god's vengeance upon the iews . which we may easily believe , if we consider almost the incredible number of those who were destroyed at that time , reckoned in that number in the time of eight months siege , and carried away captive , which might have been thought incredible , but for one circumstance , which is mentioned by their own historian , that at the time of the siege hierusalem was filled with jews coming from all parts to the solemnity of the passover , where they were shut up as in a prison : and their prison made their place of execution . yea so prodigious were the calamities which befel this people not only at hierusalem , but at caesarea , antioch , scythopolis , alexandria , and almost all the cities of syria , that eliazer , one of the heads of the faction , when he saw they could not hold out against the romans at massada , perswaded them all to kill one another by this argument , (a) that it was now apparent that god from the beginning of the war had designed their destruction ▪ and they had better be the executioners of his vengeance themselves than suffer the romans to be so . upon which they all miserably destroyed each other : who were the last that opposed the roman power . what shall we say then to these things ▪ have we any ground to suspect the truth of the story as either made by christians in hatred of the jews , or improved mightil● to their disadvantage ? not so certainly , when all the circumstances are related by jewish and roman writers , who had no kindness at all for christians . or shall we say there was nothing extraordinary in all this , but that the jews were a wild and seditious people that destroyed themselves and their nation ? but it is evident they were not always so ; they had been a people that had flourished with the reputation of wisdom and conduct , and had great success against their enemies . and the romans themselves at this time acknowledged they never saw a people of a more invincible spirit and less afraid of dying than these were ▪ but all this turned to their great prejudice ; and they who had been so famous in former ages for miraculous deliverances from the power of their enemies , were now not only given up into their hands , but into those which were far more cruel , which were their own . what then can we imagine should make so great an alteration in the state of their affairs now , but that god was their friend then and their enemy now ? he gave then success beyond their counsels , and without preparation ; now he blasts all their des●gns , divides their counsels , and makes their contrivances end in their speedier ruine . now they felt the eff●ct of what god had threatned long before , (a) woe he unto you when i depart from you . now their strength , their wisdom , their peace , their honour , their safety were all departed from them . whereby we see how muc● the welfare of a nation dep●nds upon god's favour , and that no other security is comparable to that of true religion . the nation of the jews , was for all that we know never more numerous than at this time , never more resolute and couragious to venture their lives , never better provided of fortified towns and strong places of retreat and all provisions for war ; but there was a hand-writing upon the wall against them , mene , tekel , peres , god had weigh'd them in the ballance and found them too light , he divides their nation and removes his kingdom from them and leaves them to an utter desolation . neither can we say , this was some present infatuation upon them , for ever since all their attempts for recovering their own land , have but increased their miseries and made their condition worse than before . witness that great attempt under barchocebas in the time of adrian , in which the jews themselves say , there perished double the number of what came out of egypt , i. e. above men . after which they were not only wholly banished their land , but forbid so much as to look on the place where the temple had stood , and were fain to purchase at a dear rate , the liberty of weeping over it ; (a) ut qui quondam emerant sanguinem christi , eman● lachrymas su●s ; as st. hierom seaks ; i. e. that they who had bought the blood of christ were now fain to buy their own tears . it would be endless to pursue the miseries of this wretched people in all ages ever since ; the slavery , disgrace , universal contempt , the frequent banishments , confiscations of estates , constant oppressions which they have laboured under . so that from that time to this , they have scarce had any estates , but never any country which they could call their own . so that st. augustin hath truly said , (a) the curse of cain is upon them , for they are vagabonds in the earth , they have a mark upon them , so that they are not destroyed and yet are in continual fear of being so . god seems to preserve that miserable nation in being , to be a constant war●ing to all others , to let them see what a difference in the same people the favour or displeasure of god can make , and how severe the judgements of god are upon those who are obstinate and disobedient . . they make the kingdom of god to consist in the flourishing of their state , or that polity which god established among them . he was himself once their immediate governour and there●ore it might be properly called his kingdom : and after they had kings of their own their plenty and prosperity did so much depend on the kindness of heaven to them , that all the days of their flourishing condition migh be justly attributed to a more than ordinary providence that watched over them . for if we consider how small in comparison the extent and compass of the whole land of iudea was , being as saint hierom saith , ( who knew it well ) but miles in length from dan to beersheba , and in breadth from ioppa to bethlehem ; if we consider likewise the vast number of its inhabitants , there being at (a) david's numbering the people fighting men who ought not to be reckoned above a fourth part of the whole , and benjamin and levi not taken in ; if we add to these , the many rocks , mountains and desarts in this small country , and that every seven years the most fertile places must lye fallow , we may justly wonder how all this number of people should prosper so much in so narrow a territory . for although we ought not to measure the rules of eastern diet by those of our northern climates , and it be withall true , that the number of people add both to the riches and plenty of it , and that the fertile places of that land were so almost to a miracle , yet considering their scarcity of rain and their sabbatical years , we must have recourse to an immediate care of heaven which provided for all their necessities , and filled their stores to so great abundance that (b) solomon gave to king hiram every year measures of wheat , and twenty measures of oyl ; every one of which contained about bushels . and god himself had particularly promised to give them the former and the latter rain , and that they might have no occasion to complain of their sabbatical years (a) every sixth year should afford them fruit for years . by which we see their plenty depended not so much upon the fat of their land , as upon the dew and blessing of heaven . and if we farther consider them as environed about with enemies on every side , such as were numerous and powerful , implacable and subtle , it is a perpetual wonder ( considering the constitution of the jewish nation ) that they should not be destroyed by them . for all the males being obliged strictly by the law to go up three times a year to hierusalem ( we should think against all rules of policy to leave the country naked ) it seems incredible that their enemies should not over-run the country , and destroy their wives and children at that time . but all their security was in the promise which god had made ; (a) neither shall any man desire thy land , when thou shalt go up to appear before the lord thy god thrice in the year . and to let us see that obedience to god is the best security against the greatest dangers , we never read of an● invasion of that coun●ry in one of t●ose times , nor of any miseries they suf●er'd th●n ; till the last and fatal d●●●ruction of hierusalem when god had taken away his kingdom from them . and with that , their whole polity fell ; for never since have they been able to maintain so much as the face of government , living in subjection , if not in slavery in all parts of the world . so that whether we mean the succession of power in iudah's tribe , or the seat of power in the whole nation , or the distinction and superiority of that tribe above the rest , ●y the scepter which was not (a) to depart from iudah till shiloh came ; we are sure in eve●y one of these senses , it is long since d●parted from it . for neither have any of the posterity of david had any power over them , nor was it possi●le they should , considering that all government is taken from them , and the very distinction of tribes is lost among them ▪ they having never had any certa●n genealogies since the destruction of the temple i know what vain hopes , and foolish fancies , and incredible stories they have among them ; of some supreme power , which they have in some part of the world but they know not where . sometimes , they talk of their mighty numbers at bagdad , and the officers of their own nation which are set over them : but had they not so in egypt , and were they ever the less in captivity there ? sometimes they boast of their schools in those eastern parts , such as pombeditha , sura , and neharda , and the authority the rabbins have over them ; but this is just as the orator said of dionysius the tyrant of syracuse , that he loved government so well , that when he was not suffered to govern men there , he went to govern boys at corinth , (a) usque eò imperio carere non poterat . but these are tolerable in comparison with the incredible fictions of the four tribes in the east , hem'd in by a vast and unpassable ridge of mountains on every side , but when the famous sabbatical river runs , which ●or six days bears all before it with a mighty torrent , and carries stones of such incredible bigness that there is no passing over it : but because the admirable nature of that river is (b) that it keeps the sabbath and rests all that day , we might have thought it had been possible to have had some entercourse with them on that day ; but to prevent this they tell us , that as the water goes off , flames of fire come in the place of it and hinder all access to them . but these are things whi●h a man must be a iew first before he can believe : and what will not they believe rather than christ is the son of god! for (a) mana●se ben israel hath had the confidence in this age to say , that the sand taken out of the sabbatical river and preserved in a tube doth constantly move ●or six days , and rests punctually from the beginning of the sabbath to the end of it . which is the less to be wondred at since in all his book of the hope of israel , he eagerly contends for the incredible fiction of montezini of the flourishing condition of the jews at this day in some parts of america ; but the salvo is translated thither too ▪ for there is a mighty river which hinders any from access to them . by all which we see how vain all their attempts are to preserve any reputation of that power and government wherein they made so great a part of the kingdom of god among them to consist . . that which they thought gave them the greatest title to the being god's peculiar p●ople , was the solemn worship of him at the temple . but what is become of all the glory of that now ? where are all the pompous ceremonies , the numerous sacrifices , the magnificent and solemn feasts , which were to be constantly observed there ? how is it then possible for them to observe the religion now which god commanded them ; since he likewise forbid the doing these things any where , but in the place which himself should appoint ? so that they are under an unavoidable necessity of breaking their law ; if they do them not , they break the law which commands them to be done ; if they do them , they break the law which forbids the doing them in any other place but at the temple at hierusalem . and this i am apt to think , was one of the greatest grounds among them , after the destruction of the temple , of their setting up traditions above the written law ; for finding it impossible to keep the written law , if they could gain to themselves the authority of interpreting it , they were not much concerned for the law it self . and this is one of the strongest holds of their infidelity at this day . for otherwise we might in reason have thought , that their infidelity would have been buried in the ashes of their temple ; when they had such plain predictions that the messias was to come during the second temple , that the prediction of christ concerning the destruction of this temple was so exactly fulfilled , that all attempts for the rebuilding of it were vain and fruitless . of all which none promised so fair as that in iulians time , who out of spight to the christians , and particularly with a design to contradict the prophecy of our saviour gave all encouragement to the iews to build it , he provided at his own charge all materials for it , and gave command to the governour of the province to take particular care in it ; and the jews with great joy and readiness set about it ; but when they began to search the ground in order to the laying the foundations , the earth round about trembles with a horrible earthquake , and the flames of a sudden break out , which not only consumed the undertakers but a great multitude of spectators , and the materials prepared for the building : insomuch that an universal astonishment seized upon them , and the rest had rather leave their work , than be consumed by it . this we have delivered to us ; not by persons at a grea● distance of time from it , but by such who lived in the same age : (a) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we are all witnesse ( saith st. chrysost. ) of the truth of these things ; not by one or two , but the concurrent testimony of the writers of that age . not only by (a) st. chrysost but gregorius nazianzenus , ambrose , ruffi●●s , socrates , sozomen , theodoret. and le●t all these should be suspected of partiality because christians , we desire no more to be believed concerning it , than what is recorded by ammianus marcellinus a heathen historian of that time , who was a souldier under iulian in his last ex●edition , and he asser●s the substance of what i have said before . and what a strange difference do we now find in the building of a third and a second temp●e ? in the former , though they met with many troubles and difficulties , yet god carried them through all and prospered their endeavours with great success . now they had all humane encouragements and god only opposes them , and makes them desist with the loss of their workmen and materials , and perpetual dishonour to themselves , for attempting to fight against god in building him a temple against his will. from which we see that in all the senses the jews unde●stood the kingdom of god , it was rema●kably taken ●rom them within so many years after christ the true passover was slain by them , as had passed from their first passover after their going out of aegypt to their entrance into canaan . the difficulty will be far less , and the concernment not so great as to the jews , to prove that the kingdom of god in the sense our saviour meant it for the power of the gospel , was taken from them . for the event it self is a clear proof of it . instead of that therefore i shall now prove that this taking away the kingdom of god from them , was the effect of their sin in crucifying christ. therefore i say , &c. to make this clear i shall proceed by these following steps . . that it is acknowledged by the jews themselves that these great calamities have happened to them for some extraordinary sins . for to these they impute the destruction of the city and temple , their oppressions and miseries ever since , and the deferring the coming of the messias . for some of them have confessed (a) that all the terms prefixed for the coming of the messias are past long ago , but that god provoked by their great sins hath thus long deserred his appearance , and suffered them in the mean while to lye under such great calamities . . the sin ought to be looked on as so much greater by how much heavier and longer this punishment hath been , than any inflicted upon them before . for if god did in former captivities punish them for their sins , when they were brought back again into their own land after years ; we must conclude that this is a sin of a higher nature which hath not been expiated by years captivity and dispersion . . the jews have not suffered these calamities for the same sins for which they suffered before . for then god charged them with idolatry as the great provoking sin ; and it is very observable that the jews were never freer from the suspicion of this sin than under the second temple , and particularly near their destruction . they generally pretended a mighty zeal for their law , and especially opposed the least tendency to idolatry ; insomuch that they would not suffer the roman ensigns to be advanced among them because of the images that were upon them ; and all the history of that time tells us of the frequent contests they had with the roman governours about these things : and ever since that time they have been perfect haters of idolatry , and none of the least hindrances of their embracing christianity hath been the infinite scandal which hath been given them by the roman church in that particular . . it must be some sin , which their fathers committed and continues yet unrepented of by them to this day . their fathers committing it , was the meritorious cause of the first punishment ; their ch●ldren not repenting of it , is the cause why that judgment lies still so heavy upon them . and now what sin can we imag●ne this to be , but putting to death the true messias , which they will acknowledge themselves to be a sin that deserves all the miseries they have undergone ; and it is apparent that in all this long captivity they never have had the heart to repent of the sin of crucifying christ ; other sins they confess and say they hear●ily repent of , but why then hath not god accepted of their repentance and brought them back into their own land ; according to the promises he long since made unto their fathers ? which is a certain argument it is some sin , as yet unrepented of by them , which continues them under all their sufferings ; and what can this be but that horrid sin of putting to death the son of god , with that dreadful imprecation which to this day hath its force upon them , his blood be upon us and our children ? and this sin they are so far from repenting of , that they still justifie their fathers in what they did , and blaspheme christ to this day in their prayers , where they think they may do it with safety . and to all this we may add that the ensuing calamities were exactly foretold by that christ whom they crucified , and if no other argument would convince them that he was at least a prophet , yet the punctual accomplishment of all his predictions ought to do it : as will appear by comparing (a) matth. . with the series of the story . and it is observable that the very place where our saviour foretold these things , viz. the mount of olives , was the first wherein the roman army encamped before hierusalem . and as they had crucified the son of god , and put the lord of glory to open shame , mocking and deriding him in his sufferings ; so when the romans came to revenge his quarrel upon them , they took the captive jews and crucified them openly in the view of the city , . oft-times in a day , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in different forms for sport sake , as (a) iosephus tells us , who was then in the roman camp ; and withal adds , their numbers were so great that there was no room left for the crosses to stand , or wood enough to make crosses of . and they who had bought the blood of the son of god for thirty pieces of silver had this sin of theirs severely punished , when such multitudes of the jews ( in one one night ) had their bowels ript up by the roman souldiers in hopes to have found the gold and silver there , which they were supposed to have swallowed . and what greater argument can we have to believe that such judgments fell upon them upon the account of their sin in crucifying christ , than that they were so punctually foretold so long before , and had all things so exactly answering in the accomplishment of them ? for when christ spake those things the jews thought their destruction as incredible as that he was the messias ; but what greater evidence could there be to them that he was so , than that god did so severely avenge his blood upon them , and continues to do it for their unbelief and impenitency to this very day . but it may be some will say , what are all these things to us , we are none of those who crucified christ or justifie the doing it ; thanks be to god , the kingdom of god is not taken from us , but we enjoy what was taken from them ? to which i answer ; if we really were what we pretend to be , these things are of great consequence to be considered by us . . for is it nothing to us to have so great an argument of the truth of our religion , as the sufferings of the jews to this day is for the sin of crucifying christ ? as often as we think of them we ought to consider the danger of infidelity , and the heavy judgments which that brings upon a people . we may take some estimate of the wrath of god against that sin , by the desolation of the country , and the miseries of the inhabitants of it . when you think it a small sin to despise the son of god , to revile his doctrine , and reproach his miracles , consider then what the jews have suffered for these sins . as long as they continue a people in the world , they are the living monuments of the vengeance of god upon an incorrigible and unbelieving nation . and it may be one of the ends of god's dispersing them almost among all nations , that as often as they see and despise them , they may have a care of those sins which have made them a byword and reproach among men , who were once a nation beloved of god and feared by men . see what it is to despise the offers of grace , to reproach and ill use the messengers of it who have no other errand but to perswade men to accept that grace and bring forth the fruits thereof . see what it is for men to be slaves to their own lusts , which makes them not only neglect their own truest interest but that of their nation too . if that had not been the fundamental miscarriage of the rulers of the jewish nation at the time of our saviour , they would most readily have entertained him and saved their land from ruine . see what it is for a people to be high in conceit of themselves and to presume upon god's favour towards them . for there never was a nation more self-opinionated as to their wisdom , goodness , and interest with god than the jews were when they began their war : and the confidence of this made them think it long till they had destroyed themselves . see what it is to be once engaged too far in a bad cause , how hard it is though they suffer never so much for it afterwards , for them to repent of it . we might have thought the jews when they had seen the destruction of ierusalem would have come off from their obstinacy ; but how very few in comparison from that time to this , have sincerely repented of the sins of their forefathers in the death of christ. see how hard a matter it is to conquer the prejudices of education , and to condemn the most unjust actions of those when we come to understanding , whom from our infancy we had in veneration . for it is in great measure because they were their ancestors , that the jews to this day are so hardly convin●ed they could be guilty of so soul a sin as crucifying the messias . . is it nothing to us what they have suffered , who enjoy the greatest blessings we have , by their means , and upon the same terms which they did ? for to them at first were committed the oracles of god , we enjoy all the excellent and sacred records of ancient times from them , all the prophecies of the men whom god raised up and inspired from time to time among them . by their means we converse with those great persons , moses , david , solomon and others , and understand their wisdom and piety by the writings which at this day we enjoy . by them we have conveyed to us , all the particular prophesies which relate to the messias , which point out the tribe , the place , the time , the very person he was to be born of . by their means we are able to confute their infidelity , and to confirm our own faith . therefore we have some common concernment with them ▪ and ought on that account to be sensible of their miseries . is it nothing then to you that god hath dealt so severely with them , from whom you derive so great a part of your rel●gion ? but if that be nothing , consider the terms upon which you enjoy these mercies you have ; and they are as the latter clause of the text assures us , no other than the bringing forth the fruits thereof . if we prove as obs●inate and incorrigible as they , god may justly punish us , as he hath done th●m . it is but a vineyard that god lets us , it is no inheritance ; god expects our improvement and giving him the fruits of it , or else he may just●y take it away from us and give it to other husbandmen . let us never flatter our selves in thinking it impossible god should make us as miserable and contemptible a people as he hath done the jews ; but we may be miserable enough and yet fall short of them . have we any such promises of his favour as they had ? how great were their priviledges while they stood in favour with g●d above all other nations in the world ? (a) but we see , though they were the first and the natural branches , they are broken off by unbelief , and we stand by faith . nothing then can be more reasonable than the exhortation of the apostle , (b) be not high minded but fear . b●ast not of your pres●nt priviledges ; despise not those who are broken off for cons●der , if god spared not the natural branches , we ought to take heed , lest he also spare not us . . is it nothing to us what the jews suffer , since our sins are in some senses more agg●avated than theirs were ? for though there can be no just excuse made for their wilful blindness , yet there may be much less made for ours . for w●at they did against h●m was when he appeared in the weakness of humane flesh , in a very mean and low condition , before the great confirmation of our faith , by his resurrection from the dead : but our contempt of christ is much more unpardonable , not only after that , but the miraculous consequences of it , and the spreading and continuance of his doctrine in the world , after the multitudes of martyrs and the glorious triumphs of our religion over all the attempts of the persecutors and betrayers of it ; after the solemn vows of our baptism in his name , and frequent addresses to god by him , and celebrating the memory of his death and passion . what can be more mean , and ungrateful , what can shew more folly and weakness than after all these to esteem the blood of christ no otherwise than as of a common malefactor , or at least to live as if we so esteemed it : nay , we may add to all this , after so severe an instance of god's vengeance already upon the jews ; which ought to increase our care , and will therefore aggravate our sin . what the jews did they did as open and professed enemies , what we do we do as false and perfidious friends , and let any man judge which is the greater crime , to assault an enemy , or to betray a friend . . can this be nothing to us who have so many of those symptoms upon us which were the fore-runners of their desolation ? not as though i came hither like the son of anani in the jewish story , who of a sudden , four years before the war , cryed out in the temple , a voice from the east , a voice from the west , a voice from the four winds , woe to jerusalem , woe to the temple , woe to all this people ; and this he continued crying , saith iosephus , for seven years and five months , till at last being upon the walls of the city , he cryed , woe to my self also , and immediately a stone came out from one of the roman engines and dispatched him . god forbid we should be so near a desolation as they were then ; but yet our symptoms are bad , and without our repentance and amendment god knows what they may end in . there were these following remarkable forerunners of desolation in the jewish state , i am afraid we are too much concerned in . . a strange degeneracy of all sorts of men from the vertues of their ancestors . this iosephus often mentions and complains of , and that there was no sort of men free ; from the highest to the meanest , they had all degenerated not only from what they ought to be , but from what their ancestors were . and there can be nothing which bodes worse to a people than this doth ; for the decay of vertue is really the loss of strength and interest . and if this be not among us at this day in one sense , it must be in another , or else there would never be such general complaints of it as there are . it is hard to say that there hath ever been an age , wherein vice , such as the very heathens abhorred , hath been more confident and daring than in this ; wherein so many have not bare●y lest vertue , but have bid defiance to it ; and are ashamed of the●r baptism for nothing so much as because therein they renounced the devil and all his works ; these are the zealots in wickedness as the jews were in faction . the flaming sword , the voice in the temple , the terrible earthquakes , were not greater prodigies in nature among them , than men are in morality among us , nor sadder presages of future miseries . . a general stupidity and inapprehensiveness of common danger : every one had a mighty zeal for his little party and faction he was engaged in , and wou●d venture his life for that , never considering that by this means there was no more left to do , for the romans , but to stand by and see them destroy one another . i pray god that may be never said of the romans in another sense concerning this church of ours . we cannot but be sensible how much they are pleased at our divisions , and they have always hay and stubble enough , not only to build with , but thereby to add fuel to our flames . how happy should we be if we could once lay aside our petty animosities , and all mind the true interest of our church and the ●ecurity o● the protestant religion by it , which ought to be dearer to us than our lives ! but that is our misery , that our divisions in religion have made us not more contemptible , than ridiculous to foreign nations , and it puzleth the wisest among our selves to find out expedients to keep us from ruining one of the best churches of the christian world . . an at●eistical contempt of religigion : for iosephus who was apt enough ●o flatter his country-men , tel●s us there never was (a) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a more atheistical generation of men than at that time the leaders of the factions were ; for they contemned the laws of men and mocked at the laws of god ; (b) and de●ided the prophetick oracles as fabulous impostures : they would allow no difference of sacred and prophane , for they would drink the wine of the sacrifices promiscuously , and anoint their heads commonly with the sacred oyl ; in a word they owned no distinction of good and evil , (a) but thought the greatest wickedness to be good to them . to say there is such a generation of men among us , is to foretel our ruine more certainly than comets and the most dreadful presages do : for this is a sort of madness which seldom seizes upon a people , but when they are past cure , and therefore are near their end . . spiritual pride . this was very remarkable in the people of the jews in a time when they had as little reason for it , as any people in the world . they still looked on themselves as god's chosen and peculiar people , his darlings and his delight , and thought that god's honour and interest in the world were mightily concerned in their preservation . if they should be destroyed , they could not imagine what god would do for a people to serve him ; for all but themselves they looked on with a very scornful pity , and thought that god hated them because they did . they had the purity of his ordinances , in his house of prayer ; and the society of the faithful among themselves : whereas all others they thought , served god only with their own inventions , or placed their religion in dull morality . they were the people who maintained his cause , and ventured their lives and estates for it , and therefore god was bound in faithfulness to defend them , and he must deny himself if he did destroy them . it seems strange to us , that a people rejected by god for their horrible hypocrisie , should claim such an in●erest in him , when they were marked out for destruction by him ; but such is the bewitching nature of spiritual pride and hypocrisie , that it infatuates the minds of men to their ruin ; and flatters them with their interest in the promises , till god makes good his threatnings and destroys them . never any people thought they had a richer stock of promises to live on , than they ; ancient promises to abraham , isaac and iacob , full promises , of favour , protection , and deliverance from enemies ; particular promises made to them and to no other people in the world . besides these , they had mighty experiences of god's kindness towards them , undoubted experiences , not depending on the deceitful workings of fancy ; but seen in very strange and wonderful deliverances ; frequent experiences , throughout the whole history of their nation : and peculiar experiences being such vouchsafements to them , which god communicated to none but his chosen people . add to these , that they had at this time a wonderful zeal for the true worship of god as they thought ; they regarded no persecution or opposition , but thought it their glory and honour to sacrifice themselves for the cause of god and his people . and yet all this while , god was the greatest enemy they had ; and all their pretences signified nothing to him who saw their unsufferable pride and loathsome hypocrisie through those thin vails they had drawn over them , to deceive the less observing sort of men by . other sins that ar● open and publick god preserves the authority of his laws by punishing of them , but these spiritual sins of pride and hypocrisie , he not only vindicates his authority over the consciences of men , but the infiniteness of his wisdom and knowledge in their discovery , and his love to integrity and and inward holiness in the punishment of them . and therefore these sins are more especially odious to god as incroaching upon his highest and most peculiar attributes ; thence he is said to resist the proud , as though he made an attempt upon god himself ; and he loaths the hypocrite in heart , as one that mocks god as well as deceives men . the first tendency to the destruction of this nation of the jews was the prevalency of the pharisaical temper among them , which was a compound of pride and hypocrisie ; and when the field was over-run with these tares , it was then time for god to put in his sickle and cut them down . god forbid , that our church and the protestant religion in it should be in danger of destruction , for that would be a judgment beyond fire and sword and plague , and any thing we have yet smarted by ; that would be the taking away the kingdom of god from us , and setting up the kingdom of darkness ; that would be not only a punishment to our own age , but the heaviest curse next to renouncing christianity , we could entail upon posterity . but however though god in mercy may design better th●ngs for us , we cannot be sufficiently apprehensive of our danger , not so much from the business of our enemies , as those bad symtoms we find among our selves . when there is such monstrous pride and ingratitude among many who pretend to a purer worship of god than is established by law , as though there were little or no difference between the government of moses and aaron and the bondage of egypt . o england , england , what will the pride and unthankfulness of those who profess religion bring thee to ! will men still preferr their own reputation , or the interest of a small party of zealots , before the common concernments of our faith and religion ? o that we did know at least in this our day , the things that belong it our peace ! but let it never be said , that they are hid from our eyes . but if our common enemy should enter in at the breaches we have made among our selves , then men may wish they had sooner known the difference between the reasonable commands of our own church , and the intolerable tyranny of a foraign and usurped power : between the soft and gentle hands of a mother , and the iron sinews of an executioner ; between the utmost rigour of our laws , and the least of an inquisition . if ingratitude were all , yet that were a sin high enough to provoke god to make ou● condition worse than it is , but to wha● a strange height of spiritual pride are those arrived , who ingross all true godliness to themselves ? as though it were not possible among us to go to heaven and to church together . as though christ had no church for years and more , wherein not one person can be named who thought it unlawful to pray by a prescribed form . as though men could not love god and pray sinsincerely to him , that valued the peace and order of the church above the heats and conceptions of their own brains . where differences proceed meerly from ignorance and weakness , they are less dangerous to themselves or others : but where there is so much impatience of reproof , such contempt of superiours , such uncharitable censures of other men , such invincible prejudices and stiffness of humour , such scorn and reproach cast upon the publick worship among us ; what can such things spring from but a root of bitterness and spiritual pride ? i speak not these things to widen our differences , or increase our animosities , they are too large and too great already , nor to condemn any humble and modest dissenters from us ; but i despair ever to see our divisions healed , till religion be brought from the fancies to the hearts of men ; and till men instead of mystical notions and unaccountable experiences , instead of misapplying promises and mis-understanding the spirit of prayer , instead of judging of themselves by mistaken signs of grace , set themselves to the practice of humility , self-denial , meekness , patience , charity , obedience and a holy life , and look on these as the greatest duties and most distinguishing characters of true christianity . and in doing of these there shall not only be a great reward in the li●e to come ; but in spight of all opposition from atheism , profaneness , or superstition , we may see our divisions cured , and the kingdom of god , which is a kingdom of peace and holiness , to abide and flourish among us . sermon ix . preached at white-hall . whitsunday . john vii . . but this spake he of the spirit , which they that believe on him should receive : for the holy ghost was no● yet given , because that iesus was not yet glorified . what was said of old conce●ning the first creation of the world that in order to the accomplishment of it (a) the spirit of god moved upon the face of the waters , is in a sense agreeable to the nature of it as true of the renovation of the world by the doctrine of christ. for whether by that we understand a great and veh●ment mind , as the jews generally do ; or rather the divine power manifesting it self in giving motion to the otherwise dull and unactive parts of matter ; we have it fully represented to us in the descent of the holy ghost upon the apostles on the day of pentecost : for that came upon them , (a) as a rushing mighty wind , and inspired them with a new life and motion , whereby they became the most active instruments of bringing the world out of that state of confusion and darkness it lay in before , by causing the glorious light of the gospel to shine upon it . and lest any part should be wanting to make up the parallel , in the verse before the text , we read of the waters too which the spirit of god did move upon , and therefore called not a dark abyss , but flowing rivers of living water . (b) he that believeth on me , as the scripture hath said , out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water : not as though the apostles like some in the ancient fables were to be turned into fountains and pleasant springs ; but the great and constant benefit which the church of god enjoys by the plentiful effusion of the holy spirit upon them , could not be better set forth than by rivers of living water flowing from them . and this the evangelist in these words , to prevent all cavils and mistakes , tells us was our saviour's meaning ; but this spake he of the spirit , which they that believe on him should receive . and lest any should think that our blessed saviour purposely affected to speak in strange metaphors , we shall find a very just occasion given him for using this way of expression from a custom practised among the jews at that time . for in the solemnity of the feast of tabernacles , especially in the last and great day of the feast mentioned v. . after the sacrifices were offered upon the altar , one of the priests was to go with a large golden tankard to the fountain of siloam , and having filled it with water , he brings it up to the water-gate over against the altar , where it was received with a great deal of pomp and ceremony , with the sounding of the trumpets and rejoycing of the people , which continued during the libation or pouring it out before the altar ; after which followed the highest expressions of joy that were ever used among that people ; insomuch that they have a saying among them , that he that never saw the rejoycing of the drawing of water , never saw rejoycing in all his life . of which several accounts are given by the jews , some say it had a respect to the later rain which god gave them about this time , others to the keeping of the law ; but that which is most to our purpose is , that the reason assigned by one of the rabbies in the ierusalem (a) talmud is , (b) because of the drawing or pouring out of the holy ghost according to what is said , with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation . by which we see that no fairer advantage could be given to our saviour to discourse concerning the effusion of the holy ghost , and the mighty joy which should be in the christian church by reason of that , than in the time of this solemnity ; and so lets them know that the holy ghost represented by their pouring out of water was not to be expected by their rites and ceremonies , but by believing the doctrine which he preached : and that this should not be in so scant and narrow a measure as that which was taken out of siloam , which was soon poured out and carried away but out of them on whom the holy ghost should come , rivers of living waters should flow ; whose effect and benefit should never cease as long as the world it self should continue . so that in the words of the text we have these particulars offered to our consideration . . the effusion of the spirit under the times of the gospel : but this spake he of the spirit , which they that believe on him should receive . . the nature of that effusion represented to us by rivers of living waters flowing out of them . . the time that was reserved for it ; which was after the glorious ascension of christ to heaven : for the holy ghost was not yet given , because that iesus was not yet glorified . . the effusion of the spirit under the times of the gospel ; by which we mean those extraordinary gifts and abilities which the apostles had after the holy ghost is said to descend upon them . which are therefore called (a) signs and wonders , and divers gifts of the holy ghost : (b) and the operations of the spirit ; of which we have a large enumeration given us in that place . the two most remarkable which i shall insist upon and do comprehend under them most of the rest , are , the power of working miracles , whether in healing diseases or any other way ; and the gift of tongues either in speaking or interpreting ; they who will acknowledge that the apostles had these , will not have reason to question any of the rest . and concerning these i shall endeavour to prove , . that the things attributed to the apostles concerning them , could not arise from any ordinary , or natural causes . . that they could not be the effects of an evil , but of a holy and divine spirit ; and therefore that there was really such a pouring out of the spirit as is here mentioned . . that the things attributed to the apostles could not arise from any meerly natural causes . it is not my present business to prove the truth of the matters of fact , viz. that the apostles did those things which were accounted miracles by those who saw them or heard of them ; and that on the day of pentecost they did speak with strange tongues ; for these things are so universally attested by the most competent witnesses , viz. persons of the same age , whose testimony we can have no reason to suspect ; and not only by those who were the friends to this religion , but the greatest enemies jews and heathens ; and by all the utmost endeavours of atheistical men , who have not set themselves to disprove the testimony , but the consequence of it , ( by saying that granting them true they do not infer the concurrence of a divine spirit ) that on the same grounds any person would question the truth of these things , he must question the truth of some other things , which himself believes on the same or weaker grounds than these are . supposing then the matters of fact to be true , we now enquire whether these things might proceed from any meerly natural causes , which will be the best done by examining the most plausible accounts which are pretended to be given of them . and thus some have had the confidence to say , that whatever is said to be done by the power of miracles in the apostles might be effected by a natural temperament of body , or the great power of imagination ; and that their speaking with strange tongues might be the effect only of a natural enthusiasm , or some distemper of brain . . that the power of miracles might be nothing but a natural temperament or the strength of imagination . . an excellent natural temper of body they say may do strange and wonder●ul things , so that such a one who hath an exact temperament may walk upon the waters , stand in the air , and quench the violence of the fire ; and by a strange kind of sanative contagion may communicate healthful spirits , as persons that are infected do noisom and pestilential . these are things spoken with as much case and as little reason , as any of the calumnies against religion , which are so boldly uttered by men who dare speak any thing as to these things but reason , and do any thing but what is good . but can these men after all their confidence produce any one person in the world , who by the exquisiteness of his natural temper hath ever walked upon the waters , or poised himself in the air , or kept himself from being singed in the fire ? if these things be natural , how comes it to pass that no other instances can be given but such as we urge for miraculous ? we say indeed that (a) christ walked on the sea , but withal we say this was an argument of that divine power in him , which , as iob saith , (a) alone spreadeth out the heavens and treadeth upon the waves of the sea : we say that (b) elijah was carried up into heaven by a chariot of fire and a whirlwind ; but it was only by his power , (c) who maketh the winds his messengers , and flames of fire his ministers , as some render those words of the psalmist : we say that the three children were preserved (d) in the fiery furnace , that they had no hurt ; and even nebuchadnezzar was hereby convinced , that he was the true god , which was able to preserve his servants from the force of that devouring element which was therefore so much worshipped by those eastern people , because it destroyed not only the men but the gods of other nations . but is this enough to satisfie any reasonable men that these things were done by natural causes ; because they were done at all ? for that is to suppose it impossible there should be miracles ; which is to say it is impossible there should be a god ; which is an attempt somewhat beyond what the most impudent atheists pretended . but in this case nothing can be reasonably urged but common experience to the contrary ; if these were things which were usually done by other causes , there would be no reason to pretend a miraculous power : but we say it is impossible that such things should be produced by meer natural causes , and in this case there can be no confutation but by contrary experience . as we see the opinion of the ancients concerning the uninhabitableness of the torrid zone , and that there were no antipodes , are disproved by the mani●est experience to the contrary of all modern discoverers . let such plain experience be produced , and we shall then yield the possibility of the things by some natural causes , although not by such an exact temperament of body , which is only an instance of the strong power of imagination in those who think so whatever that may have on others . such a temperament of body as these persons imagine , considering the great inequality of the mixture of the earthly and aerial parts in us , being it may be as great a miracle it self , as any they would disprove by it . . but supposing such a temperament of body to be possible , how comes it to be so beneficial to others , as to prop●gate its vertue to the cure of disease● persons ? we may as well think that a great beauty may change a black by often viewing him , or a skilful musician make another so by sitting near him , as one man heal another because he is healthful himself . unless we can suppose it in the power of a man to send forth the best spirits of his own body and transfuse them into the body of another ; but by this means that which must cure another must destroy himself . besides the healthfulness of a person lies much in the freedom of perspiration of all the noxious vapours to the body ; by which it will appear incredible that a man should preserve his own health by sending out the worst vapors , and at the same time cure another , by sending out the best . . supposing we should grant that a vigorous heat and a strong arm may by a violent friction discuss some tumor of a distempered body ; yet what would all this signifie to the mighty cures which were wrought so easily and with a word speaking and at such great distance as were by christ and his apostles ? supposing our saviour had the most exact natural temper that ever any person in the world had ; yet what could this do to the cure of a person above twenty miles distance ? for so our saviour cured the son of a nobleman who lay sick at capernaum , when himself was at (a) cana in galilee ? so at (b) capernaum he cured the centurion's servant at his own house without going thither . thus we find the apostles curing , though (c) they did not touch them ; and that not one or two but multitudes of diseased persons . and nothing can be more absurd than to imagine that so many men should at the same time work so many miraculous cures by vertue of a temperament peculiar to themselves ? for how come they only to happen to have this temperament and none of the jews who had all equal advantages with them for it ? why did none of the enemies of christ do as strange things as they did ? how come they never to do it before they were christians , nor in such an extraordinary manner till after the day of pentecost ? did the being christians alter their natural temper and infuse a ●anative vertue into them which they never had before ? or rather was not their christianity like to have spoyled it if ever they had it before ; by their frequent watchings , fastings , hunger and thirst , cold and nakedness , stripes and imprisonments , racks and torments ? are these the improvers of an excellent constitution ? if they be , i doubt not but those who magnifie it in them , would rather want the vertue of it , than be at the pains to obtain it . . but what a natural temper cannot do , they think the power of imagination may : and therefore in order to the enervating the power of miracles , they mightily advance that of imagination : which is the idol of those who are as little friends to reason in it as they are to religion . any thing shall be able to effect that , which they will not allow god to do : nay the most extravagant thing which belongs to humane nature shall have a greater power than the most holy and divine spirit . but do not we see , say they , strange effects of the power of imagination upon mankind ? i grant we do , and in nothing more than when men set it up against the power of god : yet surely we see far greater effects of that in the world than we do of the other . the power of imagination can never be supposed to give a being to the things we see in the world ? but we have the greatest reason to attribute that to a divine and infinite power ; and is it not far more rational that that which gave a being to the course of nature should alter it when it pleaseth , than that which had nothing to do in the making of it ? so that in general , there can be no competition between the power of god and the strength of imagination as to any extraordinary effects which happen in the world . but this is not all ; for there is a repugnancy in the very nature of the thing that the power of imagination should do all those miracles which were wrought by christ or his apostles . for either they must be wrought by the imagination of the agent or of the patient : if of the agent , then there can be no more necessary to do the same things than to have the same strength o● imagination which they had ; what is the reason then that never since or before that time were so many signs , and wonders wrought as there were then by the apostles and disciples of our lord ? if peter and iohn cured the lame man by the strength of imagination ; why have no persons ever since cured those whose welfare they have as heartily desired as ever they could do his ? certainly if imagination could kill mens enemies , there would never need duels to destroy them , nor authority to punish such as do it : and if it could cure friends , there would need no physicians to heal and recover them , and death would have nothing to do , but with persons that were wholly friendless . if they say , that persons are not sufficiently perswaded of their own power , and therefore they do see little good ; let any of those who contend the most for it attempt the cure when they please of any the most common infirmity of mankind ; and if they cannot do that , let them then perswade us they can do miracles by that , which they cannot cure the tooth-ach by . but here they will say , the imagination of the patient is necessary in order to a miracle being wrought upon him : not such i am sure as christ and his apostles wrought , who not only healed the lame and the blind , but raised the dead ; and what power of imagination do they suppose in lazarus when he had lain four days in the grave ? and however they think of the soul they must in this case allow this power of imagination to be immortal . so that were there no other arguments but that of raising the dead that demonstrates it impossible that what christ or his apostles did , did depend on the strength of fancy in tho●e on whom they wrought their miracles . object . but , say they , did not christ and his apostles require believing first in all persons that had miracles wrought upon them ; and why should this be , but because the strength of imagination was required to it ? and is it not expresly said , that christ could not do any mighty works among his own country-men because of their unbelief ? by which it appears that the efficacy of his miracles did depend on the faith of the persons . to which i answer , answ. . that christ did not always require faith in the person on whom he wrought his miracles ; for then it had been impossible he should ever have raised any from the dead ? which we are sure he did . and did not (a) st. paul raise eutychius from the dead ? and can any think so absurdly as that faith was required from a dead man in order to his resurrection ? so that the greatest miracles of all others were wrought , where there was no possibility of believing in those on whom they were wrought . . when in miraculous cures believing was required , it was to shew for what end those miracles were wrought , viz. to confirm the doctrine of the gospel by them : they did not work miracles to be admired by the people as simon magus would have done ; the apostles had no such intolerable vanity to be cried up for gods , though they did such great things ; not like that caesar of the atheists as some call him , who concludes one of his (a) dialogues with that horrible piece of vanity ( to say no more of it ) aut deus es aut vaninus , and pomponatius his master before him had said (b) philosophi sunt dii terrestres , ( and you must be sure to reckon him in the number ; ) but how was it possible for these men to discover more their mean thoughts of a deity than by making him to be as de●picable as themselves ? what boasting and ostentation would these men have made of themselves , if they could have done but the thousand part of what the apostles did ? but they were men did as far excel all such in all true vertue and real excellency as they did in that miraculous power which god had given them . if they required men to believe whom they cured , it was that they might cure both body and soul together : but sometimes they cured persons whom they saw not . as the (c) handkerchiefs from s● . paul at ephesus cured the diseased when they were carried to them . but generally they took all opportunities to convey the doctrine of christianity into the minds of those , out of whose bodies they cast either diseases or devils . but is it not said that christ could do no mighty works among them because of their unbelief , and the power of his disciples could not be greater than his own ? to which i answer , . it is no-where said in the scripture that christ could do no miracles at all among them because of their unbelief : for in one place it is said , (a) and he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief . he did miracles enough to convince them ; but when he saw their obstinacy , he would not cast away any more upon them . and in that other place where it is said , (b) that he could there do no mighty work , it is presently added , save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk and healed them . and what absurdity is there that christ should do no extraordinary miracle among them , among whom he saw that himself and his miracles were both equally contemned . it is not the method of divine goodness to bestow the largest kindnesses at first ; those who improve the beginnings of favour shall have more , but those who despise the first may justly be rejected from any farther kindness . . when it is said that he could not , that expression doth not imply any impossibility in the thing but a deliberate resolution to the contrary , so it is used acts . . for we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard . who questions but there was a possibility in the thing , that they might have held their peace ? but it was a thing which upon great deliberation they had resolved not to do . so (a) thou canst not bear them which are evil ; and (b) we can do nothing against the truth , but for the truth . from which it appears that this can be no prejudice to the power of christ in working miracles , but only shews his just resolution not to do it , considering the contempt wherewith he had been entertained among them . . it is pretended by those men who set themselves to undervalue those miraculous gifts which the apostles had , that the gift of tongues might be only the effect of an enthusiastick heat , or some distemper of their brains , as men in a high fever are apt to speak such things and words , which while they are in health they could never do . but that such unreasonable imaginations do more argue a distempered brain , than any thing we assert concerning these divine persons will easily appear from these considerations . . that no violent heat whatsoever can form a new language to a man which he never knew before . if language had been natural to man , there might have been some reason for it ; but that we all know to be an arbitrary thing : and as well might a blind man paint with an exact difference of colours , or one write plainly who could never read , as any person by the meer heat of his phancy speak suddenly in a tongue which he never learnt . there have been some who have said (a) that the mind of man hath naturally all kinds of languages within it self , and it wants nothing but some mighty heat to stir men up to speak in any kind of them . but we are to take notice that those things are accounted wit when spoken against religion , which would have been nonsense and contradictions if spoken for it . and certainly nothing could be more absurdly said , than for the same men to make all the imaginations 〈◊〉 have of things to come in by our senses and yet to say that the mind of man can have those things in it , which he never learnt or heard . if this supposition were true , we might invert that saying of (a) festus to st. paul , much learning hath made thee mad ; for then madness , or that which is the next to it , a great heat of brain , would make men the most learned . if this were true , there would be a much easier way of attaining to speak in the languages of all nations than that which many take to gain a very few of them : for the heightening of phancy either by wine , or a degree of madness would inspire men with skill in tongues to a miracle . . but supposing such a thing possible , which is far from being so , yet it is very remote from our present case ; for the apostles made it manifest to all persons that they were far enough from being inspired with the vapours of wine , or touched with any enthusiastick madness . they spake with strange tongues , but in such a manner as convinced great numbers of their hearers of the excellency of that doctrine which was delivered by them . as st. paul ▪ answered festus , (b) i am not mad , most noble festus , but speak forth the words of truth and soberness ; so they did not speak incoherent and insignificant words which madness makes men do , nor any mean and trivial things , meerly for ostentation of their gifts , but they spake though with divers tongues , (a) the great or wonderful things of god : so their auditors confessed with admiration . these are not the e●●ects of wine or madness , as st. peter at large proves , against the unreasonable cavils of some (b) who mocked and said they were full of new wine . which he doth with so great success , that the same day persons disowned their former course of life and embraced christianity . surely , madness was never more infectious , never made men more wise and sober , than this did , if the apostl●s were acted only by that . when was there ever better and more weighty sense spoken by any , than by the apostles after the day of pentecost ? with what reason do they argue , with what strength do they discourse , with what a sedate and manly courage do they withstand the opposition of the sanhedrin against them ? they never fly out into any extravagant passion , never betray any weakness or fear : but speak the truth with boldness , and rejoyce when they suffer for it . it could be no sudden heat which acted them on the day of pentecost , for the same spirit and power continued with them afterwards : they lived and acted by vertue of it , so that their life was as great a miracle , as any that was wrought by them . their zeal was great but regular , their devotion fervent and constant , their conversation honest and prudent , their discourses inflaming and convincing , and the whole course of their lives breathed nothing but glory to god , and good-will towards men. if they are called to suffer for their religion , with what constancy do they own the truth , with what submission do they yield to their persecutors , with what meekness and patience do they bear their sufferings ! if differences arise among christians , with what care do they advise , with what caution do they direct , with what gentleness do they instruct , with what tenderness do they bear with dissenters , with what earnestness do they endeavour to preserve the peace of the christian church ! when they are to plant churches , how ready to go about it , how diligent in attending it , how watchful to prevent all miscarriages among them ! when they write epistles to those already planted , with what authority do they teach , with what majesty do they command , with what severity do they rebuke , with what pity do they chastise , with what vehemency do they exhort , and with what weighty arguments do they perswade all christians to adorn the doctrine of god their saviour in all things ! so that such persons who after all these things can believe that the apostles were acted only by some extravagant heats , may as easily perswade themselves that men may be drunk with sobriety , and mad with reason , and debauched with goodness . but such are fit only to be treated in a dark room , if any can be found darker than their understandings are . . but yet there may be imagined a higher sort of madness than these men are guilty of , viz. that when men are convinced that these things could not be done by meer mechanical causes , then they attribute them to the assistance of spirits , but not to the holy and divine , but such as are evil and impure . a madness so great and extravagant , that we could hardly imagine that it were incident to humane nature , unless the scripture had told us that some had thus blasphemed the son of man , and either had or were in danger of blaspheming the holy ghost too . and this is properly blaspheming the holy ghost , ( which was not given , as our text tells us , till after christ's ascension ) when men attribute all those miraculous gifts which were poured out upon the apostles in confirmation of the christian doctrine to the power of an unclean spirit . for so the evangelist st. luke , when he mentions the (a) blasphemy against the holy ghost which shall not be forgiven , immediately subjoyns , their bringing in the apostles to the synagogues and magistrates and powers ; and adds , that the holy ghost , ( even that which they so blasphemed in them ) should teach them in that same hour what they ought to say . i deny not but the attributing the miraculous works of christ , who had the holy spirit without measure , to an evil spirit was the same kind of sin ; but it received a greater aggravation a●ter the resurrection of christ from the dead , and the miraculous effusion of the holy ghost upon the apostles . for now the great confirmation was given to the truth of all that christ had said before ; he had sometimes concealed his miracles and forbid the publishing of them : and to such he appeared but as the son of man , of whom it is said (a) that had they known him they would not have crucified the lord of glory : and st. peter more expresly ; (b) and now brethren i wrote that through ignorance you did it as did also your rulers . but now since his resurrection and ascension , when god by the effusion of the holy ghost hath given the largest and fullest testimony to the doctrine of the gospel ; if men after all this shall go on to blaspheme the holy ghost , by attributing all these miracles to a diabolical power , then there is no forgiveness to be expected either in this world , or the world to come ; because this argues the greatest obstinacy of mind , the highest contempt of god , and the greatest affront that can be put upon the testimony of the holy spirit ; for it is charging the spirit of truth to be an evil and a lying spirit . by which we see what great weight and moment the scripture lays upon this pouring out of the holy ghost on the apostles , and what care men ought to have how they undervalue and despise it , and much more how they do reproach and blaspheme it . they might as well imagine that light and darkness may meet and embrace each other , as that the infernal spirits should imploy their power in promoting a doctrine so contrary to their interest ? for heaven and hell cannot be more distant , than the whole design of christianity is from all the contrivances of wicked spirits . how soon was the devil's kingdom broken , his temples demolished , his oracles silenced , himself baffled in his great design of deceiving mankind when christianity prevailed in the world ? having thus far asserted the truth of the thing , viz. that there was such an effusion of the holy spirit , we now come to consider , . the nature of it as it is represented to us by rivers of living waters flowing out of them that believe : by which we may understand . the plenty of it , called rivers of waters . . the benefit and usefulness of it to the church . . the plentifulness of this effusion of the spirit ; there had been some drops , as it were , of this spirit which had fallen upon some of the jewish nation before ; but those were no more to be compared with these rivers of waters , than the waters of siloam which run softly , with the mighty river euphrates . what was the spirit which bezaleel had to build the (a) tabernacle with , if compared with that spirit which the apostles were inspired with for building up the church of god ? what was that (b) spirit of wisdom which some were filled with to make garments for aaron , if compared with that spirit of wisdom and revelation which led the apostles into the knowledge of all truth ? what was that spirit of courage which was given to the iudges of old , if compared with that spirit which did convince the world of sin , of righteousness , and of judgment ? what was that spirit of moses which was communicated to the elders , if compared with that spirit of his son , which god hath shed abroad in the hearts of his people ? what was that spirit of prophesie , which inspired some prophets in several ages , with that (c) pouring out of the spirit upon all flesh ; which the apostle tells us was accomplished on the day of pentecost ? but these rivers of waters , though they began their course at ierusalem upon that day , yet they soon overflowed the christian church in other parts of the world . the sound of that rushing mighty wind was soon heard in the most distant places : and the fiery tongues inflamed the hearts of many who never saw them . these gifts being propagated into other churches , and many other tongues were kindled from them , as we see how much this gift of tongues obtained in the church of corinth : and so in the history of the acts of the apostles , we find after this day how the holy ghost fell upon them which believed , and what mighty signs and wonders were done by them . . the benefit and usefulness of this effusion of the spirit ; like the rivers of waters that both refresh and enrich , and thereby make glad the city of god. the coming down of the spirit was like (a) the pouring water upon him that is thirsty , and floods upon the dry ground : now (b) god opened the rivers in high places , and fountains in the midst of the valleys ; that the poor and needy who seek water might be refreshed , and they whose tongues failed for , thirst might satisfie themselves with living wa●er . these are some of the lo●ty expressions whereby the courtly prophet isaiah sets sorth the great promise of the spirit ; none better befitting the mighty advantages the church of god hath ever since enjoyed by the pouring out of the spirit than these . for the fountain was opened in the apostles , but the streams of those rivers of living water have run down to our age : not confined within the banks of tiber , nor mixing with the impure waters of it ; but preserved pure and unmixed in that sacred doctrine contained in the holy scripture . within those bounds we confine our faith , and are not moved by the vain discourses of any who pretend to discover a new fountain-head to these waters at rome ; and would make it impossible for them to come down to us through any other channel but theirs . but supposing they had come to us through them , have they thereby gotten the sole disposal of them , that none shall tast but what and how much they please ? and must we needs drink down the filth and mud of their channel too ? as long as they suffer us to do what christ hath commanded us to do , viz. (a) to take of these waters of life freely we do our own duty and quarrel not with them . but if they go about to stop the passage of them , or adulterate them with some forrain mixture , or strive with us as the herdsmen of gerar did with isaac's herdsmen saying the (b) water is ours , then if the name of the well be esek , if contentions do arise , the blame is not ours ; we assert but our own just right against all their encroachments . for as isaac pleaded (a) that he only digged again the wells of water which they had digged in the days of abraham his father ; and although the philistins had stopped them after the death of abraham , yet that could be no hindrance to his right , but he might open them again , and call their names after the names by which his father had called them : so that is the substance of our plea , we pretend to nothing but to clear the passage which they have stopped up , and was left free and open for us in the time of the apostles and fathers ; we desire not to be imposed upon by their later usurpations : we plead for no more but that the church of god may have the same purity and integrity which it had in the primitive times , and that things may not only be called by the names by which the fathers have called them ; but that they may be such as the fathers have left them . but otherwise let them boast never so much of the largeness of their stream , of the antiquity of their channel , of the holiness of their waters , of the number of their ports , and the riches of their trading ; nay and let them call their stream by the name of the ocean too ( if they please , ) yet we envy them not their admah and pharpar and all the rivers of damascus , so we may sit down quietly by these living waters of iordan . we are contented with the miracles which the apostles wrought without forging or believing new ones ; we are satisfied with the gift of strange tongues which they had ; we know no necessity now of speaking much less of praying in an unknown tongue : we believe that spirit infallible which inspired the apostles in their holy writings ; and those we acknowledge , embrace , and i hope are willing to die for : but if any upstart spirit pretend to sit in an infallible chair , we desire not to be brought under bondage to it , till we see the same miracles wrought by vertue of it , which were wrought by the apostles to attest their infallibility . . the last thing to be spoken to , is , the season that this effusion of the spirit was reserved for , which was after the glorious ascension of christ to heaven . this was reserved as the great donative after his triumph over principalities and powers ; when he was ascended up on high , he sends down the greatest gift that ever was bestowed upon mankind , viz. this gift of his holy spirit . hereby christ discovered the greatness of his purchase , the height of his glory , the exercise of his power , the assurance of his resurrection and ascension : and the care he took of his church and people ; by letting them see that he made good his last promise to them of sending them another comforter who should be with them to assist them in all their undertakings , to direct them in their doubts , to plead their cause for them against all the vain oppo●itions of men . and he should not continue with them for a little time as christ had done , but he should abide with them for ever , i. e. so as not to be taken from them as himself was , but should remain with them , as a pledge of his love , as a testimony of his truth , as an earnest of god's favour to them now , and their future inheritance in heaven ; for he should comfort them by his presence , guide them by his counsel , and at last bring them to glory . nothing now remains but that as the occasion of our rejoycing on this day doth so much exceed that of the jews at their ceremony of pouring out the ●ater ; so our joy should as much exceed in the nature and kind of it the mirth and jollity which was then used by them . with what joy did the israelites when they were almost burnt up with thirst in the wilderness tast of the pleasant streams which issued out of the rock ? (a) that rock , saith the apostle , was christ , and the gifts of the spirit are that stream of living water which flows from him , and shall not we express our thankfulness for so great and unvaluable a mercy ? ou● joy cannot be too great for such a gift as this so it be of the nature of it , i. e. a spiritual joy . the holy ghost ought to be the fountain of that joy which we express for god's giving him to his church . let us not then affront that good spirit , while we pretend to bless god for him ; let us not grieve him by our presumptuous sins , nor resist his motions in our hearts by our wilful continuance in them . the best way we can express our thankfulness is by yielding up our selves to be guided by him in a holy life , and then we may be sure our joy shall never end with our lives , but shall be continued with a greater fulness for ever more . sermon x. preached at white-hall . march . . isaiah lvii . . there is no peace , saith my god , to the wicked . if we were bound to judge of things only by appearance , and to esteem all persons happy who are made the object of the envy of some and the flattery of others , this text would seem to be a strange paradox , and inconsistent with what daily happens in the world . for what complaint hath been more frequent among men almost in all ages , than that peace and prosperity hath been the portion of the wicked , that their troubles have not been like other mens , that none seem to enjoy greater pleasures in this world than they who live as if there were no other ? the consideration of which hath been a matter of great offence to the weak , and of surprise to the wisest ; till they have searched more deeply into the nature of these things ( which the more men have done the better esteem they have always had of divine providence ) and from thence have understood that the true felicity of a man's life lies in the contentment of his own mind , which can never arise from any thing without himself , nor be enjoyed till all be well within . for when we compare the state of humane nature with that of the beings inferiour to it , we shall easily find that as man was designed for a greater happiness than they are capable of ; so that cannot lie in any thing which he enjoys in common with them , ( such as the pleasures of our senses are ) but must consist in some peculiar excellencies of his being . and as the capacity of misery is always proportionable to that of happiness ; so the measure and the kind of that must be taken in the same manner that we do the other . where there is no sense of pleasure , there can be none of pain ; where all pleasure is confined to sense , the pain must be so too ; but where the greatest pleasures are intellectual , the greatest torments must be those of the mind . from whence it follows that nothing doth so much conduce to the proper happiness of man , as that which doth the most promote the peace and serenity of his mind : nothing can make him more miserable than that which causeth the greatest disturbance in it . if we can then make it appear that the highest honours , the greatest riches , and the softest pleasures can never satisfie the desires , conquer the fears , nor allay the passions of an ungoverned mind , we must search beyond these things for the foundations of its peace . and if notwithstanding them there may be such a sting in the conscience of a wicked man , that may inflame his mind to so great a height of rage and fury , which the diversions of the world cannot prevent , nor all its pleasures cure : we are especially concerned to fix such motion of man's happiness , which either supposes a sound mind or else makes it so ; without which all the other things ●o much admired can no more contribute towards any true contentment than a magnificent palace , or a curiously wrought bed to the cure of the gout or stone . all which i speak , ( not as though i imagined any state of perfect tranquility or compleat happiness were attainable by any man in this present life : for as long as the causes are imperfect , the effect must be so too : and those philosophers who discoursed so much of a happy state of life , did but frame ideas in morals as they did in politicks , not as though it were possible for any to reach to the exactness of them , but those were to be accounted best which came the nearest to them : ) but i therefore speak concerning a happy state of life for these two reasons . . that though none can be perfectly happy , yet that some may be much more so than others are , i. e. they may enjoy far greater contentment of mind in any condition than others can do ; they can bear crosses , and suffer injuries with a more equal temper ; and when they meet with vicissitudes in the world they wonder no more at it , than to see that the wind changes its quarter , or tha● the sea proves rough and tempestuous which but a little before was very eve● and calm . they who understand humane nature , have few things left t● wonder at ; and they who do the least wonder , are the least surprised ; and they who are the least surprised , are the least troubled ; and those are the happiest men as this world goes , who meet with fewest troubles in it . the italians have a shrewd proverb , that there is less money , less wisdom , less honesty in the world than men generally make account of ; i will not stand to maintain the truth of it , but the less men believe of these things , the less they are deceived , and the less they are deceived the less they are troubled . for no troubles are greater than those which are the most unexpected ; none are so unexpected as those which come upon men who are only undeceived by their own experience : for they undergo a great deal of trouble to gain a little wisdom , whereas a true judgment and consideration of these things before-hand , keeps the mind of man more steady and fixt amidst all the contingencies of humane affairs . by which we see that wisdom of it self hath a great influence upon the quiet and peace of man's mind , and the happiness of his life : but if we add to that the inseparable property of true wisdom , viz. patience and submission to the will of god upon the consideration of his infinite wisdom and goodness , he must be strangely blind that cannot discern a greater peace and serenity following these two in the minds of men , than where folly and irreligion raign . thus far then we have gained , that wisdom and piety tend very much to the lessening the troubles of a man's life ; and therein lies the far greatest part of the happiness of this imperfect state. for it is a vain thing to expect in so open a condition as we live in here , that no cross winds should blow upon us ; but if they only shake our branches and make our leaves fall , as long as the root holds firm and the body entire , the former beauty and glory will return again . it can be no disparagement to the most skilful pilot , to have his vessel tossed upon a tempestuous sea , but to escape with little damage when he sees others sink down and perish , shews the great difference which wisdom gives in the success , where the dangers are equal and common . so that not only some men may meet with fewer troubles in the world than others do ; but supposing they meet with the same , some are far more happy in passing through them than others are . and this is the fairest sense i know can be given of those otherwise extravagant speeches of the philosophers of old , concerning the wise man being happy in the bull of phalaris , or under the greatest racks and torments ; not as though they could be so senseless to imagine that any man could be as happy in his torments as out of them ; but that taking him in the same state with another man who wants that constancy of mind which he hath , he may be said to be happy in respect of the other . by which we see , that although no state of life can be said to be compleatly happy , yet some may be much nearer than others can be . which was necessary to be premised in order to the right understanding the design of our following discourse : which is to shew , . that some course of life to any man who considers what he doth , is utterly inconsistent with a state of peace and tranquility ; i mean the course of sin and wickedness . so the prophet assures us from the mouth of god himself in the words of the text . there is no peace , saith my god , to the wicked . which words are spoken on purpose by the prophet , to shew how much the wickedness of men doth hinder them from enjoying that peace and happiness which they might have had without it ; for in the foregoing words he represents god as shewing great pity to the scattered remainders of a broken and distressed people ; though he had punished them severely for their sins , and banished them out of their native country , yet he promiseth them , that those who put their trust in him should possess the land , and again inherit his holy mountain , v. . and therefore speaks that the way might be cast up and prepared for their return , and every impediment taken out of the way , v. . for the high and lofty one who inhabits eternity , will again dwell in his high and holy place , viz. at hierusalem ; ( so the words may be understood , for the hebrew verb is future ) but especially with those who were humbled for their sins , who are here called the humble and contrite ones , v. . for god would not always contend with them , for he knew they were not able to stand before him ; v. . and although his punishment of them was just for their sins , v. . yet god took notice of their repentance , and would therefore heal their breaches , and conduct them back again to their own land , and thereby give so great an occasion of joy and triumph , that by it he is said to restore comforts to those who mourned for the calamities they lay under , v. . yea he would grant them so much inward peace and outward prosperity , that they should far and near joyn in their praises to god for it ; and therefore he is said to create the fruit of the lips peace , peace , &c. but all this while they must have a care of deceiving themselves though god did restore them to their own land with abundance of joy and peace , in expectation that the remembrance of their former calamities and the present blessings they enjoyed would make them abhor the sins which had provoked god to punish them ; yet if they should return to their wickedness again , or continue in it after so great mercies , they would soon find that their wickedness would overthrow their peace , and nothing but discontent and trouble would follow upon it , as the natural product of it . for like the troubled sea that is tossed up and down with violent and impetuous winds , fomes and rages , one wave beating against another , and the effect of all this commotion is nothing but casting upon the neighbour shore a greater burden of unprofitable mire and dirt : such would the effect of their wickedness be among them , v. . it would make them restless and unquiet in themselves , having no one certain motion but tossed up and down with every contrary blast of wind , and producing nothing by all these various agitations but unprofitable counsels and unsuccessful designs . but lest the prophet should be supposed to speak all this out of discontent and passion , he confirms what he had said from the mouth of god in these few but smart words of the text. there is no peace , saith my god , to the wicked . the words we see are general and indefinite , both as to the nature of the peace here mentioned , and the notion of wickedness implyed ; and therefore i shall handle them in their due extent by shewing that no one kind of true peace is consistent with any sort of prevailing wickedness : whether by peace we mean the peace a man hath with himself in the tranquillity of his mind ; or the peace which men have in society with one another . in either of these senses it will appear true , that there is no peace to the wicked . . taking peace , for the tranquillity of a man's mind ; in order to which it is necessary for a man to have some certain foundation to build his peace upon , and that he be secured from those things which will overthrow it : both which shew it impossible for a wicked man to have any true peace in his mind , because he can have no certain grounds to build it upon ; and those things do accompany his wickedness , which will certainly overthrow it : . a wicked man can have no certain foundations for his peace . by which i do not mean any contracted dulness , or brutish stupidity , which if we will call peace the most insensible parts of the creation do infinitely exceed us in it , but such a composure and settlement of our minds , which ariseth from a due consideration of things ; and differs as much from the former temper as a vigorous and healthful state of body doth from the dull effects of a lethargy . and such a peace as this no wicked man can ever have but upon one of these suppositions . either ( . ) that wickedness is but a meer name of disgrace set upon some kind of actions , but that really there is no such a thing as sin , or the differences of good and evil ; or else , ( . ) supposing there is such a thing as sin , it is ridiculous to believe there ever should be such a punishment of it as men are affrighted with ; ( . ) or lastly , supposing there be a punishment of sin to come , it is madness to abstain from the present pleasures of sin for the fear of it . these being only the imaginable grounds a wicked man can have any peace in his mind from ; i shall particularly shew the falseness and the folly of them . . that there is no such thing as sin or wickedness in the world , and that the differences of good and evil are meerly arbitrary things , and that those are names only imposed upon things by the more cunning sort of men to affright men from the doing some actions , and to encourage them to do others . but what a miserable case are those in , who can never enjoy any contentment in themselves unless all the differences of good and evil be utterly destroyed ! we should conclude that man's condition desparate , who believes it impossible for him to have any ease in his mind , unless he could be transformed into the shape of a beast , or petrified into the hardness of a rock . these are things not utterly impossible , but yet they are possible in so remote a degree , that it is all one to say , he can have no ease , as to say , that he expects it only upon those terms : but it is utterly inconsistent with the supposition of humane nature , or a being endued and acting with reason , to make all things equally good or evil . for what doth reason signifie as it respects the actions of men , but a faculty of discerning what is good and fitting to be done , from what is evil and ought to be avoided ? and to what purpose is such a faculty given us , if there be no such difference in the nature of things ? might not men with equal probability argue that there is no such thing as a difference in the things about which life and sense are conversant , as in those wherein reason is imployed ? with what impatience would those men be heard who should assert that there is no such thing as a difference in the qualities of meats and drinks , but that they do all equally tend to the preservation of life , that it is pedantical and beneath a gentleman to talk of any such thing as poisons , that will so suddenly and certainly destroy mens lives , and that these are things which none talk of or believe besides those whose trade is either to kill or cure men ? with how much wit and subtilty might a man argue upon these things , that it is impossible for any man to define what the nature of poison is , or in what manner it destroys the life of man , that men have conquered the malignity of it by use , and that the same things which have been poison to some , have been food and nourishment to others ? but notwithstanding all these plausible arguments , none of these brave spirits dare venture the experiment upon themselves : and yet these ( only changing the terms ) are the very same arguments used against the natural differences of good and evil ; viz. the difficulty of defining or setting the exact bounds of them , and the different customs or apprehensions of men in the world concerning the things which are called good and evil . if we proceed farther to the objects of sense , how ridiculous would those persons appear that should with a mighty confidence go about to perswade men , that the differences between light and darkness , between pleasure and pain , between smells and tasts and noises are but phantastick and imaginary things ? who would ever believe that those are men of the most excellent sight to whom light and darkness are equal ? ( for others who pretend not to so much wit , are wont to call such persons blind . ) or that those have the most exquisite sense , that feel no difference of pain and pleasure , ( which was wont to be thought the sign of no sense at all . ) and surely the persons i am now arguing against , love their palats too well , to admire those who can discern no difference of tasts ; and would be well enough contented to be thought deaf if they could put no distinction between the pleasant sound of vocal or instrumental mu●ick , and the harsh jarring of two saws drawn cross each other . thus it appears that nothing would make m●n more ridiculous than to explore and laugh at the difference that there is in the means of life and the objects of sense . let us now proceed higher : dare any man say there is no such thing as reason in man , because there appears so little of the truth of it in men , and so muc● of the counterfeit of it in bruits ? or that there is no such thing as a difference of truth and falshood , because they are so commonly mistaken for one another ? what reason then imaginable can there be , that there should not be as wide a distance in the matters of our choice , as in the objects of our sense and understanding ? is it that we have natural faculties of sense and perception , but not of choice ? that , every one is able to refute by his constant experience , that finds a greater liberty in his choice , than in his perception . the reason of which is wholly unintelligible , unless a difference be found in the nature of the things proposed to his choice ; that some have a greater excellency and commendableness in them , more agreeable to humane nature , more satisfactory to the minds of those who choose them , than others are . and must all this difference be destroyed , meerly because all men are not agreed , what things are good and what evil ? we call goodness the beauty of the soul ; and do men question whether there be such a thing as beauty at all , because there are so many different opinions in the world about it ? or is deformity ever the less real , because the several nations of the world represent it in a colour different from their own ? those arguments then against the natural differences of good and evil must needs appear ridiculous , which will be granted to hold in nothing else but only the thing in question . and yet in the midst of all the ruines and decays of humane nature , we find such evident footsteps and impressions of the differences of good and evil in the minds of men , which no force could extinguish , no time could deface , no customs could alter . let us search the records of ancient times , and enquire into the later discoveries of nations , we shall find none so barbarous and bruitish as not to allow the differences of good and evil ; so far as to acknowledge , that there are some things which naturally deserve to be praised , and others which deserve to be punished . whereas if good and evil were meerly names of things , there can be no reason assigned , why praise and honour should necessarily belong to some things , and infamy and disgrace to follow others . if the things themselves be arbitrary , the consequences of them would be so too . but is it possible to imagine that any man should deserve to be punished as much for being true to his trust , as for betraying it ; for honouring his parents , as for destroying them ; for giving to every one their due , as for all the arts of injustice and oppression ? is it possible for men to suffer as much in their esteem , for their fidelity , temperance , and chastity , as they always do for their falseness , intemperance , and lasciviousness ? how comes the very name of a lie to be a matter of so much reproach and dishonour , that the giving of it is thought an injury so great as cannot be expiated without the satisfaction of the giver's blood , if it be in it sel● so indifferent a thing ? nay , i dare appeal to the consciences of the most wicked persons , whether they are so well pleased with themselves , when they come reeking from the satisfaction o● their lusts , and sodden with the continuance of their debaucheries , as when they have been paying their devotions to god , or their duties to their parents , or their respects to their country or friends ? is there not ( whether they will or no ) an inward shame , and secret regret and disquiet following the one , and nothing but ease and contentment the other ? what should make this difference in those persons who love their vices far more than they do the other ? and if it were possible for them , would bring vertue more out of countenance than sin is : yet after all their endeavours , though vice hath the stronger interest , vertue hath the greater reve●ence . thus considering humane nature as it is , we find indelible characters rema●ning upon it of the natural differences of good and evil ; but then if we consider it with a respect to the maker of it , that will cast a clearer light upon them , and make those characters appear more discernible . for nothing can be more absurd than to imagine a creature owing its being , and all it hath to the bounty of a being infinite in all perfect●ons , and yet not to be obliged to give all honour , worship and service to it . to rip up the bowels of a mother to whom a man owes his coming into the world ; to assassinate a prince , to whom he owes all the honours and riches he hath in it , are crimes of so black a nature , that the worst of men can hardly be supposed to commit them , nor the worst of devils to defend them : but to blaspheme god and to deride his service , seems to have a much greater malignity in it , in as much , as our obligations to his honour and service , are much greater than they can be to any created being . but if there be no natural differences of good and evil , even this must be accounted an ind●fferent thing , as well as the former : and what safety can there be in conversing with those men , whom no bonds of religion , nature , or gratitude can tye ? let us , if it were possible , suppose a society of men constituted of such who make all things equally good and evil in their own nature , what a monstrous leviathan would they make among them ? no religion , no law , no kindness , no promises , no trust , no contracts could ever oblige them not to do any thing which they thought might be done with safety . by which it appears that these principles are so inconsistent with humane nature , and all the bonds of religion and duty , that whoever owns them must suppose mankind more savage than the beasts of prey , he must renounce his reason , destroy all religion , and disown a deity . for if there be a god , we must be inviolably bound to observe and obey him ; and the very notion of a god implies a being infinitely perfect ; and if there be such perfections in god , they cannot but be so in their own nature , and if they be so in their own nature , they must in their degree be so in us as well as in him ; so that if goodness , holiness and righteousness be absolute perfections as they are in god , they must be perfections so far as they are in us ; and the contrary must be imperfections ; which makes the differences of good and evil so far from being arbitrary , that those things which agree to the perfections of god as well as his will must needs be good , and those which are repugnant to them must needs be evil . the result of all is , that if a wicked man can have no peace in his mind , without overthrowing the differences of good and evil , he can have no peace without the greatest violence offered to god , to nature , and himself ; and if this be the way to peace , let his reason judge . . the second foundation which a wicked man must build his peace upon is , that supposing there be such a thing as sin , yet that men have no cause to disturb themselves with the fears of so great a punishment to follow after , as that which sinners are afrighted with . but what security can a sinner have against the fears of punishment when his conscience condemns him for the guilt of his sins ? is it that god takes no notice at all of the actions of men , that he will not disturb his own eternal peace and happiness by observing all their follies ? so some of old imagined , who pretended that out of meer kindness to the deity they gave him his quietus est , and took from him as much as in them lay , the care and government of the world : but it was really a greater kindness to their lusts which made them do it , and makes many now-a-days so willing upon the same frivolous pretences to exclude the providence of god out of the world ; ●or can any man who considers what god is , think his providence inconsistent with his happiness ? if we speak of such weak and imperfect beings as the wises● of mankind are , it m●ght not a little contribute to their peace to be eased of the cares of government . but the reason of that is , because a●l things cannot be foreseen by them be●ore they happen , nor well managed when they do ; whence come oversights and disappoi●ments , and consequently all their e●sie e●fects of ●he●e . but when we ●peak o● god , we speak of a being infi●●●ely wise ●nd power●ul , ●rom whom nothing can b●●id , a●d whom nothing can 〈◊〉 and what can be imagined more easie than fo● a conjunction of infinite w●sdom and p●wer , to contrive and 〈◊〉 all the 〈◊〉 of the world ? i● therefore w●ck●● men could suppose that god could not know what they did , or could not punish them if he knew it , they might indulge themselves in greater security : but to suppose his wisdom so great that he cannot but know their actions ; and his power so irresistible , that it is impossible for them to stand before him when he designs to punish ; to flatter themselves with the hopes of impunity is an extravagant piece of folly and madness . or is it then , that though god doth take notice of their actions , he will not be so much displeased as to punish them ? but this is as repugnant to the justice and holiness of god , as the other was to his wisdom and power . will not the righteous god , who hath made laws to govern mankind , see to the execution of them ? for if he did not hate sin , why did he so strictly forbid it ? if he doth hate sin , he will severely punish it . nay hath he not been severe already in the execution of his judgments upon the world for sin ? what did adam and his posterity suffer for the first sin ? what did the old world , sodom and gomorrah , the people of the jews suffer for their wickedness ? and is not he the same god still ? is his hand shortned that he cannot strike , or doth his heart fail that he dare not punish ? surely of all nations we have no cause to think so , and of all ages , not in this of ours ; wherein we have smarted so much by ●he ju●t displeasure of god against our sins . but where then lies the sinner's hope ? is it at last , that though god may sometimes punish men in this life for their sins , he will never do it in that to come ? if he could have said it was impossible he should do it , and proved it sufficiently , there might have been some ground for his security , but that is impossible he should ever do ; but to hope he will not do it when he hath declared that he will , is instead of bringing peace to his own mind to set god at variance with himself . for nothing can be more plainly revealed , more frequently inculcated , more earnestly pressed than (a) that there is a day of wrath to come , wherein the righteous judgment of god shall be revealed ; and wherein god will render to every man according to his deeds : wherein tribulation , and anguish , and wrath shall be upon every soul of man that doth evil ; wherein the secrets of all hearts and actions shall be disclosed , when the graves shall be opened , (b) and they that have done good shall come forth to the resurrection of life , and they that have done evil to the resurrection of damnation . for the lord iesus himself , even he who died for the salvation of all penitent sinners , (a) shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire , taking vengeance on them that know not god and obey not the gospel of christ , who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the lord and the glory of his power . then shall that dreadful sentence be pass'd upon all impenitent sinners , (b) depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels . which words are so full of horrour and astonishment as might not only disturb the sinner's peace and security , but awaken him to such a sense of his sins , as to loath , abhor and forsake them , and thereby fly from the wrath to come . . but after all this , is it possible to suppose , that any should think their present pleasures would countervail all the miseries of another life ? which is the last imaginable foundation for a sinner's peace , while he continues in his wickedness . the most professed epicureans that ever were , made this one of their fundamental maxims , that no pleasure was to be chosen , which brought after it a pain greater than it self : on which account they made temperance and sobriety necessary to a pleasant life , because excesses and debaucheries leave far more of burden than of ease behind them . but what would these men have said , if they had believed the intolerable anguish of a tormented mind , the racks of an enraged conscience , the fire of everlasting vengeance to be the consequent of all the pleasures of sin ? they mu●t upon their own principles have concluded that none but mad-men and fools would ever venture upon them . and that not only because the after-pain would so much exceed the present pleasure ; but because the fears of that pain to come must abate proportionably of the pleasure which might otherwise be enjoyned . suppose a man certainly knew that upon the pleasing his palat with the most excellent wine , and gratifying his appetite with the most delicate food , he must be racked with the stone , and tormented with the gout as long as he should live ; can we imagine such a person could have any pleasure in his mind ( whatever his palat had ) in the enjoyment of them while he did consider the consequent of them . but what are these miseries compared with the insupportable horrour of a conscience loaden with guilt , ●unk under despair , having a gnawing worm and unquenchable flames ? the wrath of an almighty god , and the fury of his vengeance to encounter with , without the least hopes of conquering ? i do not now ask , what the sinner will then think of all his atheism and infidelity when the greatness of his misery shall convince him that it is an almighty hand which lays it upon him ; nor what pleasure he can have in the thoughts of his former excesses , when not one drop can be procured for the mitigation of his flames ? nor what satisfaction those lusts have given him , the very thoughts of which pie●ce his soul , and if it were possible would rend him in pieces with the torment of them ? but that which i demand is , what peace of mind a sinner can have in this world who knows not how soon he may be dispatched to that place of torment ? can he bind the hands of the almighty , that he shall not snatch him away till he doth repent ? or can he reverse the decrees of heaven , or suspend the execution of them ? can he abrogate the force of his laws , and make his own terms with god ? can he dissolve the chains of darkness with a few death-bed tears , and quench the flames of another world with them ? o foolish sinners , who hath bewitched them with these deceitful dreams ! will heaven-gates fly open with the strength of a few dying groans ? will the mouth of hell be stopt with the bare lamentation of a sinner ? are there such charms in some penitent words extorted from the fear of approaching misery , that god himself is not able to resi●● them ? certainly there is no deceit more dangerous , nor i fear more common in the world , than for men to think that god is so easie to pardon sin , that though they spend their lives in satisfying their lusts ; they shall make amends for all by a dying sorrow and a gasping repentance . as though the unsaying what we had done , or wishing we had done otherwise since we can do it no longer , ( for that is the bottom of all putting off repentance to the last ) were abundant compensation to the justice of god , for the affronts of his majesty , contempt of his laws , abuse of his patience , and all the large indictments of wilful and presumptuous sins , which the whole course of our lives is charged with . the supposal of which makes the whole design of religion signify very little in the world . thus we have examined the foundations of a sinner's peace , and found them very false and fallacious . . we are now to shew that those things do accompany a sinner's course of life , which certainly overthrow his peace ; which are these two . . the reflections of his mind . . the violence of his passions . . the reflections of his mind , which he can neither hinder nor be pleased with . no doubt if it were possible for him to deprive himself of the greatest excellency of his being , it would be the first work he would do , to break the glass which shews him his deformity . for as our saviour said , (a) every one that doth evil hateth the light , lest his deeds should be reproved ; not only the light without which discovers them , but that light of conscience within , which not only shines but burns too . hence proceeds that great uneasiness which a sinner feels within as often as he considers what he hath done amiss , which we call the remorse of conscience ; and is the natural consequent of the violence a man offers to his reason in his evil actions . it was thought a sufficient vindication of the innocency of two brothers by the roman judges , when they were accused for parricide ; that although their father was murthered in the same room where they lay , and no other person was found on whom they could fasten the suspicion of it , yet in the morning the door was open and they fast asleep . for as the orator saith , (a) no man can imagine , that those who had broken all the laws of god and nature by so great an act of wickedness , could presently sleep upon it : for they who do such things can neither rest without care , nor breathe without fear . we are not to believe , saith he , the fables of the poets , as though wicked men were haunted and terrified with the burning torches of the furies ; but every man's wickedness is the greatest terrour to himself , and the evil thoughts which pursue wicked men are their constant and domestick furies . it would be endless to repeat what force the more civil heathens have given to conscience either way , as to the peace which follows innocency , and the disquiet which follows guilt . which they looked on as the great thing which governed the world , (b) quâ sublatâ jacent omnia , as the orator speaks , without which all things would be in great disorder ; for these punishments they are sure not to escape , (c) though they may do others ; and these they thought so great and weighty that upon this ground they vindicated divine providence as to the seeming prosperity of wicked men , thinking it the most unreasonable thing in the world , to call those persons happy who suffered under the severe lashes of their own consciences . if there were such a force in the consciences of those who had nothing but the light of nature to direct them , how much greater weight mu●t there be when (a) the terrours of the lord are made known by himself , (b) and the wrath of god revealed from heaven against all unrighteousness of men ? i know that wicked men in the height of their debaucheries pretend to be above these things , and are ready to laugh at them as the effects of a strong spleen and a weak brain : but i appeal to their most sober thoughts , when the streams of wine are evaporated , and the intoxication of evil company is removed from them , when in the deep and silent night , they revolve in their minds the actions of the foregoing day ; what satisfaction they then take in all the sinful pleasures they have pursued so eagerly ? but especially , when either their lusts have consumed their bodies , or the vengeance of god hath overtaken them ; when death begins to seize upon their vitals , and themselves not wholly stupified through the power of their sins or their disease , let then , if it were possible , any rep●esent the fears , the horrour and astonishment which the consciences of wicked men labour under in remembrance of their evil actions . how mean and poor would they leave themselves if with all their honours and riches they could purchase to themselves , a reprieve from death and from the miseries which follow after it ? what would they then give for the comfort of a good conscience , and the fruit of a holy , righteous , and sober life ? with what another sense of religion do men whose minds are awakened speak then , in comparison of what they did in the days of their mirth and jollity ? neither is this to take them at the greatest disadvantage , as some of them have been ready to say ; for i suppose their minds as clear then as at any time , and so much the clearer , because freed from the impediments of such freedom of their thoughts at another time ; for the same thoughts would have possessed them before , only the pleasures and the hopes of life diverted their minds from them ; but now the nearness of the things they feared , and the weight and consequence of them make them more diligently examine and impartially consider them . but that demonstrates the great misery of a sinner's state ; that what cures the other greatest troubles of our life , doth the most increase his , which is the exercise of reason and consideration , that allays the power of griefs , that easeth the mind of vain fears , that prevents many troubles and cures others , that governs other passions and keeps them in their due bounds ; but this is it which of all things doth the most increase the trouble of a wicked man's mind ; for the more he considers , the worse he finds his condition ; and while he finds his condition so bad , he can never enjoy any peace in his mind . . the violence of his passions : those a wicked man hath lost the command of , or else he could never be a wicked man ; and whosoever is under the power of any unruly passion , forfeits all his peace by it . for what peace can ever be expected in such a state of violence and usurpation , where the calm government of reason is cast off as an unnecessary burden , and every passion under the pretence of liberty sets up for an arbitrary power ? nay what confusion and disorder must needs follow , where the powers of the mind , which ought to keep all in order , are themselves in subjection to their own slaves : and none ever govern so ill as those which ought to obey . how serene and quiet is the mind of a man where the superiour faculties preserve their just authority ? how composed is his temper , how moderate his desires , how well governed his fears ! but where once that authority is lost , how extravagant is the rage of men , how unruly their lusts , how predominant their fears ! what peace had xerxes in his mind , when in stead of conquering his foolish passion , he challenged mount athos into the field , and no doubt would have run fast enough if he had seen it moving ? what pleasure was it to see that mighty monarch whip the sea in a rage , as though the waves had been under his discipline , and would run the faster for the fear of his rod ? what harm had the hair of h●s head done to that man who pulled it off with the violence of his passion , as though , as the philosopher told him , baldness would asswage his grief ? was ever varus the nearer to restoring his legions for augustus knocking his head against the wall in a rage about the loss of them ? what injury did neptune suffer , when he displaced his image in the circensian games , because he had an ill voyage at sea ? what height of madness and folly did that modern prince's rage betray him to , who , as the french moralist saith , (a) having received a blow from heaven , sware to be revenged on almighty god , and for ten years space forbid all publick exercise of devotion towards him ? i instance in these things to let us see there is nothing so ridiculous , nothing so absurd , nothing so irreligious but a violent passion may betray men to . and if such things ever break forth into actions , what may we conceive the inward disturbance is , where the outward shew ( which usually dissembles the inward passion , ) betrayed so much rage and disorder ; for where such flames break out , what combustion may we conceive within ? but it is not only this kind of passion which is so great an enemy to the peace of a man's mind , but when his desires are restless , and his fears unconquerable ; and this is the case of every wicked man. his lusts inflame him and the means he uses to quench them inrage them more ; his ambition grows greater as his honour doth ; and there is no hopes of a cure , where the disease thrives under the remedy ; his love of riches is necessary to maintain his honour and feed his lusts ; and where passions so great , so many , so different , all increase by being gratified , what disturbance and confusion follows ? but supposing that vices in men may agree ( as the devils in hell do ) to the destruction of men's souls ; yet what security can a wicked man have against the power of his fears ? and we all know no passion disquiets more than that doth ? and how many sorts of fears possess a sinner's mind ? fears of disappointments , ●ears of discovery , and fears of punishm●nt ; but supposing he could master all the rest , and the fears of punishment as to this life too ; yet the fears of that to come is sufficient to rob him of any peace in his mind , and impossible to be overcome by him . for no sound reason can be given against his fears , but the strongest arguments in the world to confirm them . nay the greatest grounds of others comforts are the strongest ●oundations for his fears , as the belief of a god , and providence , and a life to come : and what can give that man peace , whom the very thoughts of the god of peace doth disturb so much ? that is the first kind of peace we have shewed to be inconsistent with a course of wickedness , which is the peace and tranquillity of a man 's own mind . . taking this peace for an outward peace , and so these words not in respect of every person in particular , and that peace which belongs to him as such , but as they are joyned together in community ; so they imply that nothing undermines our civil peace and the prosperity of a nation so much as prevailing wickedness doth . so that although mighty deliverances were given the people of the jews in a very st●ange and unexpected manner , when god raised up cyrus his servant , a man from whom no kindness was expected , and made him the great instrument of setling the people in their land under their own lawful princes , and re●●ored the true worship of god among them ; yet if they grew wanton in the days of their prosperity , and forgat the god who delivered them , they must expect a return of calamities again upon them ; for there is no peace , saith my god , to the wicked , i. e. this is the method of his providence , and the way he useth in governing the world ; while religion and vertue flourish among them , they may hope for peace and prosperity ; but if those decay , and sin , and wickedness prevail , no other arts imaginable will secure a lasting peace , or an abiding tranquillity . all other ways are but tricks and devices , and there are many of them in the hearts of men , but the counsel of the lord that shall stand against them all ; and that counsel he hath declared himsel● by the mouth of another prophet , (a) at what instant i shall speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom to build and to plant it ; if it do evil in my sight , that it obey not my voice , then will i repent of the good , wherewith i said i would benefit them . thus we find it was in this people of the jews , upon their first return from captivity they shewed some zeal towards the rebuilding the temple and setling the worship of god there ; but this fit did not hold them long , they soon fell back to their forme● sins and disobedience to the laws of god ; upon this they brake out into greater schisms and factions in matters of religion than ever were known among them before ; for then the pharisees fell into a separation under a pretence of greater sanctity and severity of life , and these by their shew of zeal gained a mighty interest among the people , so great that the princes stood in awe of them : then the sadducees , ( who were most part courtiers , as iosephus tells us ) out of opposition to the other , looked on religion as a meer political institution , cried out against faction and popularity , and questioned at least whether there were any spirits or life to come . and what peace followed upon these things ? very little among themselves we may be sure by the heats and animosities that were continually among them ; the issue of which was , the temple was profaned by antiochus , rifled by pompey ; their own princes deposed , and usurpers ruled over them ; and when the son of god himself could not reclaim them , their temple , nation , and government were all involved in one common ruin . thus we see how these words of the prophet were fulfilled upon this people . but some have been ready to say that god's proceedings with the iews ought not to be drawn into an example to any other nations , because his dealings with them were peculiar , and by vertue of a particular covenant which god made with them , which he hath not done with any other nation in the world . this objection were of great force , if god himself had not in the words before mentioned , declared the same concerning any other nation or kingdom , and if the instances were not as remarkable in other people as in that of the jews . if we search the monuments of former ages , and consider the strange revolutions which have happened in the mighty empires and kingdoms of the world ; we shall find no one circumstance more considerable in them than this , that the nations which god hath made use of for a scourge to others , have been remarkable for nothing so much , as for the vertues opposite to the most prevailing vices among those who were overcome by them . thus when the chaldean monarchy fell , the persians who were the sword in god's right hand , were eminent for nothing more than their great temperance and frugality , while the babylonians perished by their luxury and effeminacy . and when the persian monarchy degenerated into the same vices , the macedonians were raised up to be the executioners of god's wrath upon them , because they were at that time freer than any other people from those softening and destroying vices . and when the persian luxury had infected their conquerours , the severe discipline and vertue of the romans made them more successful in subduing the rema●nders of the groecian empire , than their courage and number could . and when the romans themselves ( after a long time of god's forbearance with them , and several respites from punishment by the vertue and conduct of such excellent princes as antoninus and alexander severus in the heathen , and constantine and theodosius in the christian empire ) fell into as great a degeneracy of manners as any we ever read of , then did god let loose ( as it were ) the goths and vandals and other barbarous nations out of their several dens , who seemed to be designed rather to destroy than to conquer . so sudden , so numerous , so irresistible in most places were the incur●ions they made . but what was it which gave them so strange success ? was it their long practice and skill in military affairs ? no , they were rude and unexperinced : was it their mighty courage ? no , they were despised by the romans as great cowards , and begged for peace when it was denied them . but as (a) salvian tells us who lived in those times and knew the manners of both sides , the goths and vandals were of a very severe chastity , among whom fornication was punished sharply , and adultery a crime scarce heard of ; whereas all manner of uncleanness and licentiousness did abound among the romans , who yet were then called christians . the goths were devout and pious , acknowledging divine providence , making their solemn supplications to god before their victories , and returning him the praise of them afterwards ; but the romans were fallen into that degree of irreligion and atheism , that nothing was more common among them than to droll upon religion . (b) a nostris omnia fermè religiosa ridentur , as salvian speaks : they thought all things managed by chance or fate , and ascribed very little to god. and where these sins abounded most , they were carried up and down as by a divine instinct , as they confessed themselves , and where they conquered , (a) as he particularly speaks of the vandals in africa , they purged all the stews of uncleanness , and made so great a reformation by the severity of their laws , that even the romans themselves were chast among them . thus we see how those great and mighty empires have been broken to pieces by the weight of their impieties falling upon them . may the consideration then of these things move us in time to a reformation of our lives , be●ore our iniquities grow full and ripe for vengeance . we have seen many revolutions , and god knows how many more we may see ; if that should be true of us , which the same author saith of the romans in the midst of all their changes , sola tantum vitia perdurant , their vices remained the same still . thanks be to god , that things have a fairer appearance at present than they have had , and never so good a time to amend as now : but if men flatter themselves with present security , and their sins increase as their fears abate , the clouds which seem dispersed may soon gather again , and the face of the heavens will change if we do not . and if it be not in our power to reclaim others from their sins , let us endeavour to preserve the honour of our church by amending our own , and convince our enemies by living better than they . and give me leave to say , and so i conclude , that among all the expedients which have been thought of for the peace of this church and nation , that of leaving off our sins , and leading vertuous and exemplary lives , will at last prove to be the most successful . sermon xi . preached at white-hall . march . . corinth . v. . knowing therefore the terrour of the lord , we perswade men . if ever any religion was in all respects accomplished for so noble a design as the reformation of mankind , it was the christian , whether we consider the authority of those who first delivered it , or the weight of the arguments contained in it , and their agreeableness to the most prevailing passions of humane nature . although the world was strangely degenerated before the coming of christ ; yet not to so great a degree , but that there were some who not only saw the necessity of a cure , but offered their assistance in order to it ; whose attempts proved the more vain and fruitless , because they laboured under the same distempers themselves which they offered to cure in others ; or the method they prescribed was mean and trivial , doubtful and uncertain , or else too nice and subtle to do any great good upon the world . but christianity had not only a mighty advantage by the great holiness of those who preached it ; but by the clearness and evidence , the strength and efficacy of those arguments which they used to perswade men . the nature of them is such , that none who understand them can deny them to be great ; their clearness such , that none that hear them can choose but understand them ; the manner of recommending them such , as all who understood themselves could not but desire to hear them . no arguments can be more proper to mankind than those which work upon their reason and consideration ; no motives can stir up more to the exercise of this than their own happiness and misery ; no happiness and misery can deserve to be so much considered as that which is eternal . and this eternal state is that which above all other things the christian religion delivers with the greatest plainness , confirms with the strongest evidence , and enforces upon the consciences of men with the most powerful and perswasive rhetorick . i need not go beyond my text for the proof of this , wherein we see that the apostles design was to perswade men , i.e. to convince their judgments , to gain their affections , to reform their lives ; that the argument they used for this end was no less than the terrour of the lord , not the frowns of the world , nor the fear of men , nor the malice of devils ; but the terrour of the almighty , whose majesty makes even the devils tremble , whose power is irresistible , and whose wrath is insupportable . but it is not the terrour of the lord in this world , which he here speaks of , although that be great enough to make us as miserable as we can be in this state : but the terrour of the lord which shall appear at the dreadful day of judgment , of which he speaks in the verse before the text . (a) for we must all appear before the judgment-seat of christ , that every one may receive the things done in his body , according to that he hath done , whether it be good or bad . this is the terrour here meant which relates to our final and eternal state in another world , when we must appear before the judgment-seat of christ , &c. and of this he speaks , not out of poetical fables , ancient traditions , uncertain conjectures , or probable arguments , but from full assurance of the truth of what he delivers ; knowing therefore the terrour of the lord , we perswade men . in which words we shall consider these particulars . . the argument which the apostle makes choice of to perswade men , which is , the terrour of the lord. . the great assurance he expresseth of the truth of it , knowing therefore the terrour of the lord. . the efficacy of it in order to the convincing and reforming mankind ; knowing therefore , &c. we perswade men . . the argument the apostle makes choice of to perswade men by , viz. the terrour of the lord. in the gospel we find a mixture of the highest clemency and the greatest severity , the richest mercy and the strictest justice , the most glorious rewards and intollerable punishments ; accordingly we find god therein described as a tender father , and as a terrible judge , as a god of peace , and as a god of vengeance , as an everlasting happiness and a consuming fire ; and the son of god as coming once with great humility , and again with majesty and great glory ; once , with all the infirmities of humane nature , and again with all the demonstrations of a divine power and presence ; once , as the son of god to take away the sins of the world by his death and passion ; and again , as judge of the world with flaming fire to execute vengeance on all impenitent sinners . the intermixing of these in the doctrine of the gospel was necessary in order to the benefit of mankind by it , that such whom the condescension of his first appearance could not oblige to leave off their sins , the terrour of his second may astonish when they foresee the account that will be taken of their ingratitude and disobedience ; that such who are apt to despise the meanness of his birth , the poverty of his life , and the shame of his death , may be filled with horrour and amazement when they consider the majesty of his second coming in the clouds (a) to execute judgment upon all , and to convince all that are ungodly , not only of their ungodly deeds , but of all their hard speeches , which ungodly sinners have spoken against him . and we shall easily see what great reason there is that this second coming of christ to judgment should be called the terrour of the lord , if we consider , . the terrour of the preparation for it . . the terrour of the appearance in it . . the terrour of the proceedings upon it . . the terrour of the sentence which shall then be passed . . the terrour of the preparation for it ; which is particularly described by st. peter in these words , (a) but the day of the lord will come as a thief in the night , in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise , and the elements shall melt with fervent heat ; the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burnt up . this day will come as a thief in the night by way of surprise , when it is not looked for , and that makes it so much the more dreadful . a lesser calamity coming suddenly doth astonish more , than a far greater which hath been long expected ; for , surprisals con●ound men's thoughts , daunt their spirits , and betray all the succours which reason offers . but when the surprise shall be one of the least astonishing circumstances of the misery men fall into , what unconceivable horrour will possess their minds at the apprehension of it ? what confusion and amazement may we imagine the soul of that man in , whom our saviour speaks of in his parable , who being pleased with the fulness of his condition , (a) said to his soul , soul , thou hast much goods laid up for many years , take thine ease , eat , drink and be merry : but god said to him , thou fool , this night thy soul shall be repaired of thee ; then whose shall those things be that thou hast provided ? had god only said , this night shall thy barns be burnt , and thy substance consumed to ashes , which thou hast laid up for so many years , that would have caused a strange consternation in him for the present , but he might have comforted himself with the hopes of living and getting more . but , this night shall thy soul be required of thee : o dreadful words ! o the tremblings of body , the anguish of mind , the pangs and convulsions of conscience which such a one is tormented with at the hearing of them ! what sad reflections doth he presently make upon his own folly ? and must all the mirth and case i promised my self for so many years , be at an end now in a very few hours ? nay , must my mirth be so suddenly turned into bitter howlings , and my ease into a bed of flames ? must my soul be thus torn away from the things it loved , and go where it will hate to live and can never die ? o miserable creature ! to be thus deceived by my own folly , to be surprised after so many warnings , to betray my self into everlasting misery ? fear , horrour and despair have already taken hold on me , and are carrying me , where they will never leave me . these are the agonies but of one single person whom death snatches away in the midst of his years , his pleasures and his hopes : but such as these the greatest part of the world will fall into when that terrible day of the lord shall come . (a) for as it was in the days of noe ; so shall it be also in the day of the son of man ; they did eat , they drank , they married wives , they were given in marriage , until the day that noe entred into the ark ; and the flood came and destroyed them all : likewise also as it was in the days of lot , they did eat , they drank , they bought , they sold , they planted , they builded ; but the same day that lot went out of sodom , it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all : even thus shall it be in the day when the son of man is revealed . (a) for as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth . if some of these expressions seem to relate to the unexpected coming of christ to judgment upon hierusalem , we are to consider that was not only a fore-runner , but a figure of christ's coming to judge the world. and that may be the great reason why our saviour mixeth his discourses of both these so much together as he doth : for not only the judgment upon that nation was a draught , as it were , in little of the great day , but the symptoms and fore-runners of the one were to bear a proportion with the other : among which the strange security of that people before their destruction was none of the least . and the surprise shall be so much the more astonishing when the day of the lord shall come upon the whole world , as the terrour and consequents of that universal judgment shall exceed the overthrow of the jewish polity . but supposing men were aware of its approach and prepared for it ; the burning of the temple and city of hierusalem , though so frightful a spectacle to the beholders of it , was but a mean representation of the terrour that shall be at the conflagration of the whole world. when the heavens shall pass away with a great noise , or with a mighty force , as some interpret it , and the elements shall melt with fervent beat ; i. e. when all the fiery bodies in the upper regions of this world , which have been kept so long in an even and regular course within their several limits , shall then be let loose again , and by a more rapid and violent motion shall put the world into confusion and a flame together . for then the present frame of things shall be dissolved , and the bounds set to the more subtile and active parts of matter shall be taken away ; which mixing with the more gross and earthy , shall sever them from each other , and by their whirling and agitation set them all on fire . and if (a) the stars falling to the earth , were to be understood in a literal sense , none seems so probable as this , that those aethereal fires shall then be scattered and dispersed throughout the universe , so that the earth and all the works that are therein shall be turned into one funeral pile . then the foundations of the earth shall be shaken , and all the combustible matter which lies hid in the bowels of it shall break forth into prodigious flames ; which while it rouls up and down within , making it self a passage out , will cause an universal quaking in all parts of the earth , and make the sea to roar with a mighty noise , which will either by the violent heat spend it self in vapour and smoak , or be swallowed up in the hollow places of the deep . neither are we to imagine that only the sulphureous matter within the earth shall by its kindling produce so general a conflagration , ( although some philosophers of old thought that sufficient for so great an effect ) but as it was in the deluge of water , (a) the fountains of the great deep were broken up , and the windows of heaven were opened ; so shall it be in this deluge of fire , as one of the ancients calls it , not only mighty streams and rivers of fire shall issue out of the bowels of the earth ; but the cataracts above shall discharge such abundance of thunder and lightning , wherein god will rain down fire and brimstone from heaven , that nothing shall be able to withstand the force of it . then the craters or breaches made in the earth by horrible earthquakes , caused by the violent eruptions of fire , shall be wide enough to swallow up not only cities but whole countries too : and what shall remain of the spoils of this devouring enemy within , shall be consumed by the merciless fury of the thunder and lightning above . what will then become of all the glories of the world which are now so much admired and courted by foolish men ? what will then become of the most magnificent piles , the most curious structures , the most stately palaces , the most lasting monuments , the most pleasant gardens , and the most delightful countries ? they shall be all buried in one common heap of ruines , when the whole face of the earth shall be like the top of mount aetna , nothing but rubbish , and stones , and ashes , which , unskilful travellers have at a distance mistaken for snow . what will then become of the pride and gallantry of the vain persons , the large possessions of the great , or the vast treasures of the rich ? the more they have had of these things only , the more fuel they have made for this destroying fire , which will have no respect to the honours , the greatness , or the riches of men. nay , what will then become of (a) the wicked and ungodly , who have scoffed at all these things , and walked after their own lusts , saying , where is this promise of his coming , because all things yet continue as they were from the beginning of the creation ? when this great day of his wrath is come , how shall they be able to stand or escape his fury ? will they fly to the tops of the mountains ? that were only to stand more ready to be destroyed from heaven . will they hide themselves in the dens and the rocks of the mountains ? but there they fall into the burning furnaces of the earth ; and the mountains may fall upon them , but can never hide them from the wrath of the lamb. will they go down into the deep and convey themselves to the uttermost parts of the sea ? but even there the storms and tempests of these shours of fire shall overtake them , and the vengeance of god shall pursue them to everlasting flames . consider now whether so dreadful a preparation for christ's coming to judgment be not one great reason why it should be called the terrour of the lord ? for can any thing be imagined more full of horror and amazement than to see the whole world in a flame about us ? we may remember ( and i hope we yet do so ) when the flames of one city filled the minds of all the beholders with astonishment and fear : but what then would it do , not only to see the earth vomit and cast forth fire every where about us , and the sea to boyl and swell and froth like water in a seething pot , but to hear nothing but perpetual claps of thunder , and to see no light in the heavens , but what the flashings of lightning give ? could we imagine our selves at a convenient distance to behold the eruption of a burning mountain , such as aetna and vesuvius are , when the earth about it trembles and groans , the sea foams and rages , and the bowels of the mountain roar through impatience of casting forth its burden , and at last gives it self ease by sending up a mixture of flames , and ashes , and smoak , and a flood of fire , spreading far and destroying where-ever it runs ; yet even this , though it be very apt to put men in apprehensions and fears of this great day , falls very far short of the terrour of it . could we yet farther suppose that at the same time we could see fire and brimstone raining from heaven on sodom and gomorrah , the earth opening to devour corah and his company , belshazzar trembling at the hand-writing against the wall , and the jews destroying themselves in the fire of their temple and city , this may somewhat higher advance our imaginations of the horror of the world's conflagration , but yet we cannot reach the greatness of it : in as much as the heavens and the earth which are now , are kept in store , saith the apostle , (a) reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men ; even those heavens whose beauty , and order , and motion , and influence we now admire , and that earth whose fruitful womb and richly adorned surface affords all the conveniencies of the life of man , must either be destroyed or at least purged and refined by this last and dreadful fire . the expressions of which in scripture being so frequent , so particular , so plain in writers not affecting the losty prophetical stile , wherein fire is often used only to express the wrath of god , make it evident , that their meaning is not barely that the world shall be destroyed by the anger of god , but that this destruction shall be by real fire , which adds more to the sensible terrour of it , to all that shall behold it . . the terrour of christ's appearance in that day . the design of the scripture in setting forth the coming of christ to judgment is to represent it in such a manner to us as is most apt to strike us with awe and terrour at the apprehension of it . now the greatest appearance of majesty among men is , either when a mighty prince marches triumphantly in the midst of a royal army , with all the splendor of a court and the discipline of a camp , having his greatest attendants about him , and sending his officers before him , who with the sound of trumpets give notice of his approach , and is every-where received with the shouts and acclamations of the people : or else , of a prince , sitting upon his throne of majesty , set forth with all the ornaments of state and greatness , with all his nobles and courtiers standing about his throne , and in his own person calling malefactors to account ; and both these ways the appearance of christ upon his second coming is represented to us , first (a) as coming in the clouds of heaven , i. e. riding triumphantly ( as it were upon a chariot ) on a body of light , brighter than the son , having (b) all the heavenly host attending upon him , and therefore he is said (a) to come with power and great glory ; and sending his angels with a great sound of a trumpet before him ; (b) after whom the lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout , with the vioce of the archangel and with the trump of god. not as though we were to imagine any material trumpet , as some have grossly done , whose sound could reach over the whole earth ; but the sound of the last trumpet seems to be the same with (c) the voice of the son of god , which the dead are said to hear and live ; i. e. it shall be an effectual power for raising the dead , which may be therefore called the sound of the trumpet , because it supplies the use of one in calling all people together , and doth more lively represent to our capacities the majesty of christ's appearance with all the heavenly host of angels and saints . thus when god appeared upon mount sinai with his holy angels about him , we there read (d) of the noise of the trumpet : and when god shewed his glorious presence in the temple , he is said (e) to go up with a shout and the lord with the sound of a trumpet : and when he sets himself against his enemies , god himself is said (a) to blow the trumpet , and to go with the whirlwinds of the south . but besides this , we find christ upon his second coming described as (b) sitting on the throne of his glory , and all the holy angels about him , and all nations gathered before him to receive their sentence from him . his throne is said to be great and white , i. e. most magnificent and glorious , and to make it the more dreadful ; (c) from it are said to proceed lightnings and thundrings and voices ; and so terrible is the majesty of him that sits upon the throne (d) that the heaven and earth are said to fly away from his face ; but the dead , small and great , are to stand before him and to be judged according to their works . and if the appearance of a common judge be so dreadful to a guilty prisoner , if the majesty of an earthly prince begets an awe and reverence where there is no fear of punishment , what may we then imagine when justice and majesty both meet in the person of the judge , and fear and guilt in the conscience of offenders ? therefore it is said , (e) behold he cometh with clouds , and every eye shall see him , and they also which pierced him : and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him . we find the best of men in scripture seized on with a very unusal consternation at any extraordinary divine appearance : the sight upon mount sinai was so terrible even to moses (a) that he did exceedingly fear and quake : the vision which isaiah had of the glory of god made him cry out , (b) wo is me for i am undone , for mine eyes have seen the king the lord of hosts : when daniel saw his vision , all his strength and vigour was gone , and though an angel raised him from the ground , yet he saith of himself (c) that he stood trembling . if these whom god appeared to in a way of kindness were so possessed with fear , what horror must needs seize upon the minds of the wicked when (d) the lord iesus shall be revealed from heaven in flaming fire on purpose to take vengeance upon them ? if in the days of his flesh there appeared so much majesty in his countenance , that when the officers came to apprehend him , (e) they went backward and fell to the ground ; how unconceivably greater must it be when his de●ign shall be to manifest that glory to the world which he then concealed from it ? if in the short time of his transfiguration on the holy mount , his own disciples were so far from being able to behold the glory of his presence , that (a) they fell on their faces and were sore afraid ; how shall his enemies abide the day of his wrath , or how can they stand when he shall appear in the full glory of his majesty and power ? . the terror of the proceedings upon that day : for then we must all appear before the judgment seat of christ , not for any ostentation of his greatness and power before the whole world , but that every one may receive according to the things done in his body , whether it be good or bad . how full of terror will the proceedings of that day be , wherein all secrets shall be disclosed , all actions examined , and all persons judged ? that will be (b) the day of the revelation of the righteous judgment of god ; this is the time of darkness , and therefore of disputes and quarrels ; but then the wisdom and justice of divine providence shall be made manifest to all , for every one shall receive according to his works : and none will wonder at the sentence when they have seen the evidence then the most secret impurities , the most subtile hypocrisie , the most artificial fraud , and the most dissembled malice shall be laid open to publick view . for then (a) god will bring to light the hidden things of darkness , and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts . then all the intrigues of lust and ambition so much the talk and business of this world , will be nothing but mens shame and reproach in the next . with what horror will they then behold all the sins of their lives set in order before them , when they seemed in this life , next to the committing them , to design as much as may be to forget them ? happy men ! if their consciences were like their table-books , that they could blot out and put in what they pleased themselves : then all the black catalogue of their sins would be presently expunged , and they would have nothing to be seen there , but the characters of what at least seemed to be good . for though men be never so vicious they neither care that others should think so of them , nor they of themselves : of all things they do not love to dispute where they cannot answer , and that is their case in all their reto●ts of conscience upon them . they know there is no drolling with so sour a piece , as that within them is , for that makes the smartest and and most cutting repartees ; which are uneasie to bear , but impossible to answer . therefore they study their own quiet , by seeking to keep that silent ; and since they never hope to make conscience dumb , they would have it sleep as much as may be : and although the starts it sometimes makes , shew that the most sleepy sinners have some troublesome dreams , yet if it doth not throughly awake in this world , it will do it with a vengeance in another . then there will be no musick and dancing which can cure the b●ting of this tarantula within ; no opium or stupidity or atheism will be able to give one minutes rest . how will men then curse themselves for their own f●lly in being so easily tempted ; and all those who laid traps and snares to betray them by ? what different apprehensions of sin will they have then , from what they have now , while they are beset with ●●mptations to it ? o , will a forsaken sinner then say , had i ever believed as i ought to have done , that this would have been the fruit of a sinful life , i should have taken more care to prevent this misery than i have done ! but o the folly of intemperance , the mischief of ambition , the rage of lust , the unsatiableness of covetousness , the madness of debauchery , and the dulness of atheism , what have ye now brought me to , with all your pleasures and promises and flatteries while i lost my soul in your service ! o that i had time to grow wise again ; and once more to try whether i could withstand the cheats and witchcraft of a deceitful world ! now all my sins are as fresh before me , as if committed yesterday , and their burden is heavier than the weight of mountains however l●ght i made of them then ; i need no judge to condemn me but mine own conscience ; o that i could as easily see an end of my misery , as i do that i have deserved that there should be none . thus shall the book of conscience be opened at that day in the heart of every impenitent sinner , wherein like ezekiels roul he finds written within and without , (a) lamentation and mourning and woe . yet this will not be the only terror in the proceedings o● that day , that all the sins that ever wicked men comm●tted will be set in order before them with their several circumstances and aggravations , although the remembrance of them cannot be without extreme horrour and amazement , but that they must undergo a strict and severe examination of all their actions by a most powerfull , holy and just judge . and if it be so troublesome a thing to them in this world to go down into themselves , or to call to remembrance their own wicked actions which they have loved and delight●d in ; what will it be when they must all be brought forth before the judgment seat of christ who hates and abhors them ? if men can so hardly endure to have the deformity of their vices represented to them though very imperfectly here , how will they bear the dissecting and laying them open in the view of the whole world ? when the smallest fibres and the most subtile threads in our hearts shall be curiously examined , and the influence they have had upon our actions fully discovered . when sins that have been despised for their littleness , or unregarded ●or their frequency , or laughed at as no sins at all , shall appear to have had a greater venom in them , than men would imagine . what shall they think then of their great and presumptuous sins ; whereby they have not only offered viol●nce to god and his laws , but to the dictates of their own consciences in committ●●g ●hem ? never think that leng●h of time will abate the severity of the enquiry , or lessen the displeasure of god against thee for them . remember the case of amalek , how god dealt with that people in this world for a sin committed years before , and then think whether god be not in earnest , when he tells us how much he hates sin ; and how severe he will be in the punishment of it ? i remember , saith god , (a) what amalek did to israel , how he laid wait for him in the way , when he came up from egypt . now go and smite amalek , and utterly destroy all that they have and spare them not ; but slay both man and woman , infant and suckling , &c. what ? a whole nation to be destroyed for one sin , and for a sin they thought to be none at all who committed it , and for a sin at so great a distance of time from the commission of it ? but i forbear . i know not whether there be such another instance of god's severity in scripture , but it is such as may justly make us cry out with the psalmist , (b) if thou lord shouldst thus mark iniquities , o lord who shall stand ? but although god in this world so seldom shews his severity , and tempers it with so much kindness , we have no reason to expect he should do so in another . for here he hath declared that (c) mercy rejoyceth against judgment . this being the time (d) of gods patience and forbearance and goodness towards sinners being not willing that any should ●erish but that all should come to repentance ; but if men will despise the riches of his goodness , if they will still abuse his patience , if they will trample under ●oot the means of ●heir own salvation , then they shall to their unspeakable sorrow find , that there is a day of wrath to come , wherein their own dreadful experience will tell them , (a) that it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living god. for that will be a day of justice without mercy , a day of vengeance without pity , a day of execution without any further patience . th●n no vain excuses will be taken , whereby men seek to palliate their sins and give ease to ●heir minds now . it will be to no purpose to charge thy wilful sins upon ●he infirmity of thy nature , the power of temptation , the subtilty of the dev●l , the allurement of company , the common practice of the world , the corruption of the age , the badness of education , the folly of youth ; all these and such like excuses will be too weak to be made then , when it shall appear to thy eternal confusion , that thy own vicious inclination swayed thee beyond them all . then there will be as little place for intreaties , as for vain excuses ; god shews his great pity and indulgence to mankind now , that he is so ready to hear the prayers and grant the desires of all penitent sinners , but for those who stop their ears to all his instructions , and will not hearken to the reproofs of his word or the rebukes of their own consciences , but contemn all sober counsels and scoff at religion ; what can they expect from him , but that (a) when they shall call upon him he will not answer , and when they seek him earnestly they shall not find him ; b●t he will laugh at their calamity and mock when their fear cometh . o blessed jesus ! didst thou weep over an incorrigible people in the days of thy flesh , (b) and wilt thou laugh at their miseries when thou comest to judge the world ? didst thou shed thy precious blood to save them , and wilt thou mock at their destruction ? didst thou woo and intreat and beseech sinners to be reconciled , and wilt thou not hear them when in the anguish of their souls , they cry unto thee ? see then the mighty difference between christ's coming as a saviour and as a judge , between the day of our salvation and the day of his wrath , between the joy in heaven at the conversion of penitent sinners , and at the confusion of the impenitent and unreclaimable . how terrible is the representation of gods wrath in the style of the prophets , when he punisheth a people in this world for their sins ? it is called , (a) the day of the lord , cruel with wrath and fierce anger : the day of the lord's vengeance . (b) the great and dreadful day of the lord. if it were thus , when his wrath was kindled but a little , when mercy was mixed with his severity , what will it be , when he shall stir up all his wrath , and the heavens and the earth shall shake that never did offend him ? what shall they then do that shall to their sorrow know how much they have displeased him ? then neither power , nor wit , nor eloquence , nor craft shall stand men in any stead ; for the great judge of that day can neither be over-awed by power , nor over-reached by wit , nor moved by eloquence , nor betrayed by craft , but every man shall receive according to his deeds . the mighty disturbers of mankind , who have been called conquerours , shall not then be attended with their great armies , but must stand alone to receive their sentence : the greatest wits of the world will then find that a sincere honest heart will avail them more than the deepest reach or the greatest subtilty ; the most eloquent persons without true goodness will be like the man in the parable without the wedding garment , speechless ; the most crafty and politick , will then see , that though they may deceive men and themselves too , yet god will not be mocked , for whatsoever a man sows , that shall he reap ; and they who have spread snares for others and been hugely pleased to see them caught by them , shall then be convinced that they have laid the greatest of all for themselves ; for (a) god will then be fully known by the judgment which he shall execute , and the wicked shall be snared in the work of their own hands : for , the wicked shall be turned into hell , and all the nations that forget god. . the terror of the sentence , which shall then be passed . that the judge himself hath told us before hand what it shall be , to make us more apprehensive of it in this state , wherein we are capable to prevent it by sincere repentance and a holy li●e . the tenour of it is expressed in those dreadful words , (b) depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels . it is impossible to conceive words fuller of horrour and amazement than those are , to such as du●y consider the importance of them . it is true indeed , wicked men in this world are so little apprehensive of the misery of departing from god , that they are ready to bid god depart from them , and place no mean part of their felicity in keeping themselves at a distance from him . the true reason of which is , that while they pursue their lusts , the th●ughts of god are disquieting to them ; as no man that robs his neighbour loves to think of the judge while he does it , not as though his condition were securer by it , but when men are not wise enough to prevent a danger , they are so great fools to count it their wisdom not to think of it . but therein lies a great part of the misery of another world , that men shall not be able to cheat and abuse themselves with false notions , and shews of happiness . the clouds they have embraced for deities shall then vanish into smoke ; all the satisfaction they ever imagined in their lusts shall be wholly gone , and nothing but the sad remembrance of them , left behind to torment them . all the philosophy in the world will never make men understand their true happiness so much , as one hours experience of another state will do : all men shall know better , but some shall be more happy and others more miserable by it . the righteous shall not only see god , but know what the seeing of god means , and that the greatest happiness we are capable of is implyed therein ; and the wicked shall not only be bid to depart from him , but shall then find that the highest misery imaginable is comprehended in it . it is a great instance of the weakness of our capacities here , that our discourses concerning the happiness and misery of a future life , are like those of children about affairs of state , which they represent to themselves in a way agreeable to their own childish fancies ; thence the poetical dreams of elysian fields , and turning wheels , and rouling stones , and such like imaginations . nay , the scripture it self sets forth the joys and torments of another world in a way more suited to our fancy than our understanding ; thence we read of sitting down with abraham , isaac and jacob , to represent the happiness of that state , and of a gnawing worm , and a devouring fire and blackness of darkness to set forth the misery of it . but as the happiness of h●aven doth infinitely exceed the most lofty metaphors of scripture , so doth the misery of hell the most dreadful representation that can be made of it . although a worm gnawing our entrails , and a fire consuming our outward parts be very sensible and moving metaphors , yet they cannot fully express the anguish and torment of the soul , which must be so much greater , as it is more active and sensible , than our bodies can be . take a man that afflicts himself under the sense of some intolerable disgrace , or calamity befallen him ; or that is oppressed with the guilt of some horrid wickedness , or sunk into the depth of despair ; the agonies and torments of his mind may make us apprehend the nature of that misery , although he falls short of the degrees of it . and were this misery to be of no long continuance , yet the terror of it must needs be great ; but when the worm shall never dye , and the fire shall never be quenched , when insupportable misery shall be everlasting , nothing can then be added to the terrour of it : and this is as plainly contained in the sentence of wicked men , as any thing else is . but here men think they may justly plead with god and talk with him of his judgments ; what proportion , say they , is there between the sins of this short life and the eternal misery of another ? which objection is not so great in it self as it appears to be by the weak answers , which have been made to it ; when to assign a proportion , they have made a strange kind of infinity in sin , either from the object , which unavoidably makes all sins equal , or from the wish of a sinner that he might have an eternity to sin in , which is to make the justice of god's punishments to be not according to their works , but to their wishes ; but we need not strain things so much beyond what they will bear to vindicate god's justice in this matter . is it not thought just and reasonable among men , for a man to be confined to perpetual imprisonment for a fault he was not half an hour in committing ? nay do not all the laws of the world make death the punishment of some crimes , which may be very suddenly done ? and what is death , but the eternal depriving a man of all the comforts of life ? and shall a thing then so constantly practised and universally justified in the world , be thought unreasonale when it is applyed to god ? it is true , may some say , if annihilation were all that was meant by eternal death , there could be no exception against it : but i ask , whether it would be unjust for the laws of men to take away the lives of offenders in case their souls survive their bodies , and they be for ever sensible of the loss of life ? if not , why shall not god pres●rve the honour of his laws , and vindicate his authority in governing the world , by ●entencing obstinate sinners to the greatest misery , though their souls live fo● ever in the appre●ension of it ? especially since god hath declared these things so evidently before-hand , and made them part of his laws , and set everlasting life on the other side to ballance everlasting misery , and proposed them to a sinner's choice in such a manner , that nothing but contempt of god and his grace , and wil●ul impenitency can ever betray men into this dreadful state of eternal destruction . . thus much for the argument used by the apostle , the terrour of the lord ; i now come to the assurance he expresseth of the truth of it ; knowing therefore the terrour of the lord we perswade men . we have two ways of proving articles of faith , such as this concerning christ's coming to judgment is ; . by shewing , that there is nothing unreasonable in the belief of them . . that there is sufficient evidence of the truth and certainty of them . in the former of these it is of excellent use to produce the common apprehensions of mankind as to a future judgment , and the several arguments insisted on to that purpose ; for if this were an unreasonable thing to believe , how come men without revelation to agree about it as a thing very just and reasonable ? if the conflagration of the world were an impossible thing , how came it to be so anciently received by the eldest and wisest philosophers ? how came it to be maintained by those two sects which were st. paul's enemies , when he preached at athens , and always enemies to each other , the (a) epicureans and the stoicks ? it is true they made these conflagrations to be periodical and not final : but we do not establish the belief of our doctrine upon their assertion , but from thence shew that is a most unreasonable thing to reject that as impossible to be done , which they assert hath been and may be often done . but for the truth and certainty of our doctrine , we build that upon no less a foundation than the word of god himself . we may think a judgment to come reasonable in general upon the consideration of the goodness and wisdom and justice of god ; but all that depends upon this supposition , that god doth govern the world by laws and not by power , but since god himself hath declared it who is the supreme judge of the world , (a) that he will bring every work into judgment whether it be good or evil , since the son of god made this so great a part of his doctrine with all the circumstances of his own coming for again this end ; since he opened the commission he received from the father for this purpose when he was upon earth , by declaring , that (b) the father had committed all judgment to the son , and that the hour is coming in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice , and shall come forth , they that have done good to the resurrection of life , and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation . since this was so great a part of the apostles doctrine to preach of this judgment to come , and (c) that god hath appointed a day in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained , whereof he hath given assurance to all men in that he hath raised him from the dead : no wonder the apostle speaks here with so great assurance of it , knowing therefore , &c. and no persons can have the least ground to question it , but such who wholly reject the christian doctrine , upon the pretences of infidelity , which are so vain and trifling , that , were not their lusts stronge● than their arguments men of wit would be ashamed to produce them ; and did not mens pas●ions oversway their judgments it would be too much honour to them to confute them . but every sermon is not intended for the conversion of turks and infidels , my design is to speak to those who acknowledge themselves to be christians and to believe the truth of this doctrine upon the authority of those divine persons who were particularly sent by god to reveal it to the world . and so i come to the last particular by way of application of the former , viz. . the efficacy of this argument for the perswading men to a reformation of heart and life ; knowing the terrour of the lord we perswade men . for as another apostle reasons from the same argument , (a) seeing all these things shall be dissolved what manner of persons ought we to be in all holy conversation and godliness ? there is great variety of arguments in the christian religion to perswade men to holiness , but none more sensible and moving to the generality of mankind than this . especially considering these two things ; . that if this argument doth not perswade men , there is no reason to expect any other should . . that the condition of such persons is desperate , who cannot by any arguments be perswaded to leave off their sins . . there is no reason to expect any other argument should perswade men if this of the terror of the lord do it not . if an almighty power cannot awaken us , if infinite justice cannot affright us , if a judgment to come cannot make us tremble , and eternal misery leave no impression upon us , what other arguments or methods can we imagine would reclaim us from our sins ? we have been too sad an instance our selves , of the ineffectualness of other means of amendment by the mercies and judgments of this present life : have ever any people had a greater mixture of both these , than we have had in the compass of a few years ? if the wisest persons in the world had been to have set down beforehand the method of reforming a sinful nation , they c●uld have pitched upon none more effectual than what we have shewed not to be so . fir●● , they would have imagined , that after enduring many miseries and hardships , when they were almost quite sunk under despair , if god ●hould give them a sudden and unexpected deliverance , meer ingenuity and thankfulness would make them afraid to displease a god of so much kindness . but if so great a flash of joy and prosperity instead of that should make them grow wanton and extravagant , what course then so likely to reclaim them , as a series of smart and severe judgments one upon another , which might sufficiently warn yet not totally destroy . these we have had experience of , and of worse than all these , viz. that we are not amended by them . for are the laws of god less broken , or the duties of religion less contemned and despised after all these ? what vices have been forsaken , what lusts have men been reclaimed from , nay what one sort of sin hath been less in fashion than before ? nay , have not their number as well as their aggravation , increased among us ? is our zeal for our established religion greater ? is our faith more firm and settled , our devotion more constant , our church less in danger of either of the opposite factions than ever it was ? nay is it not rather like a neck of land between two rough and boisterous seas , which rise and swell , and by the breaches they make in upon us , threaten an inundation ? by all which we see what necessity there is that god should govern this world by the considerations of another ; that when neither judgments nor mercies can make men better in this life ; judgment without mercy should be their portion in another . o the infatuating power of ●in ! when neither the pity of an indulgent father , nor the frowns of a severe judge can draw us from it : when neither the bitter passion of the son of god for our sins , nor his threatning to come again to take vengeance upon us for them , can make us hate and abhor them : when neither the shame nor contempt , the diseases and reproaches which follow sin in this world , nor the intolerable anguish and misery of another can make men sensible of the folly of them so as to forsake them . could we but represent to our minds that state wherein we must all shortly be , when the bustle and hurry , the pleasures and diversions , the courtships and entertainments of this world shall be quite at an end with us , and every one must give an account of himself to god ; what another opinion of these things should we have in our minds , with what abhorrency should we look upon every temptation to sin , how should we loath the sight of those who either betrayed us into sin or flattered us when we had committed it ? could men but ask themselves that reasonable question , why they will defie god by violating his known laws , unless they be sure he either cannot or will not punish them for it ? they would be more afraid of doing it than they are , for supposing both , to do it , is perfect madness : to question his power who is almighty , or his will who hath declared it and is immutable is the height of folly . . the condition of such is desperate whom no arguments can perswade to leave their sins . for there can be no breaking prison in that other state , no escaping tryal , no corrupting the judge , no reversing the sentence , no pardon after judgment , no reprieve from punishment , no abatement or end of misery . how canst thou then hope , o impenitent sinner , either to fly from or to endure that wrath of god that is coming swiftly upon thee to arrest thee by death , and convey thee to thy tormenting prison ? canst thou hope , that god will discharge thee before that dreadful day comes , when he hath confined thee thither in order to it ? canst thou hope that day will never come which the vindication of god's justice , the honour of christ , the happiness of the blessed , as well as the punishment of the wicked make so necessary that it should come ? or canst thou hope to defend thy self against an all-seeing eye , a most righteous judge and an accusing conscience when that day doth come ? when all the mercies thou hast abused , the judgements thou hast slighted , the motions of grace thou hast resisted , the checks of conscience thou hast stifled , and the sins of all kinds thou hast committed , shall rise up in judgment to condemn thee ? o that we had all the wisdom to consider of these things in time , that the terror of the lord may perswade us to break off all our sins by a sincere repentance , and to l●ve so that we may dye with comfort , and be for ever with the lord in his eternal joy. sermon xii . preached at white-hall . february th . . matthew xvi . . for what is a man profited , if he shall gain the whole world and lose his ●wn soul ? or what shall he give in exchange for his soul ? if we look into the twenty fourth verse of this chapter we shall find our saviour there laying down such hard conditions of mens being his disciples , as were , to all appearance , more likely to have driven away those which he had already , than to have drawn any others after him : for he requires no less than the greatest readiness to suffer for his sake , and that to no meaner a degree than the loss of what is most precious to men in this world , in their lives ; which is implyed in those words ; if any man will come after me let him deny himself , and take up his cross and follow me : if our saviour had only designed to have made himself great by the number of his followers , if he had intended a kingdom in this world , as the jews imagined , he would have made more easie conditions of being his disciples ; he would have chosen another way to have attained his end , and made use of more pleasing and popular arguments to have perswaded the people to follow him . when the eastern impostor afterwards began to set up for a new religion he took a method as contrary to our saviours as his religion and design was : he knew the greatness and honour , the pleasure , and the pomp of this world , were the th●ngs most passionately loved and admired by the generality of mankind ; and therefore he fitted his religion to the natural inclinations of men , and proposed such means of advancing it as were most like to make men great by undertaking them . and men are never so willing to be cheated by any religion , as that which complies with their present interests and gratifies their sensual inclinations . in this case there need not many arguments to court persons to embrace that which they were so strongly inclined to before ; and the very name of religion does them great service when it allows what they most desire , and makes them sin with a quiet conscience . but that is the peculiar honour of christianity , that as it can never be suspected to be a design for this world , so it hath risen and spread it self by ways directly contrary to the splendor and greatness of it : for it overcame by sufferings , increased by persecutions , and prevailed in the world by the patience and self-denial of its followers . he that was the first preacher of it , was the greatest example of suffering himself ; and he bids his disciples not to think much of following their lord and saviour though it were to take up the cross and lay down their lives for his sake . we may easily imagine how much startled and surprized his disciples were at such discourses as these , who being possessed with the common opinion of the temporal kingdom of the messias , came to him with great expectations of honour and advancement by him ; and no less would content some of them , than being his highest favourites and ministers of state , sitting at his right hand , and at his left hand in his kingdom : they had already in their imaginaons shared the preferments and dignities of his kingdom among themselves ; and were often contending about preheminence , who should be the greatest among them . insomuch , that when christ now , the time of his suffering approaching , began more plainly to discourse to them of his own sufferings at hierusalem , v. . st. peter , either out of his natural forwardness and heat , or being elevated by the good opinion which our lord had expressed of him before , v. . takes upon him very solemnly to rebuke him for ever thinking to submit himself to so mean a condition ; be it far from thee , lord ; this shall not be unto thee , v. . upon which , jesus not only reproves peter with great smartness and severity , as savouring more of the pomp and ease of the world , than of the nature and design of his kingdom ; v. . but takes this occasion to tell his disciples , that they must no longer dream of the glories and splendor of this world , nor entertain themselves with vain fancies of the pleasures and contentments of this life ; but if they would shew themselves to be truly his disciples they must prepare for persecutions and martyrdoms , they must value their religion above their lives ; for the time was now coming on , they must part with one or the other ; and if they were not prepared before-hand by self-denial and taking up the cross , they would run great hazard of losing their souls for the love of this world : and therefore our saviour shews , . the great advantage that would accrue to them , if they were willing to suffer for his sake . whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it , v. . i. e. instead of this short and uncertain life , which would spend it self in a little time , he should have one infinitely more valuable ; and therefore no exchange could be better made , than that of laying down such a life as this for one of eternal happiness and glory ; for so our saviour elsewhere explains it , he that hateth his life in this world , shall keep it unto life eternal , st. joh. . . . the great folly of losing this eternal state of happiness for the preservation of this present life , or the enjoyment of the things of this world : which he first lays down a certain truth , v. . for whosoever shall save his life shall lose it , and then discovers the folly of it in the words of the text , by comparing such a mans gain and his loss together , supposing he should obtain the utmost that can be hoped for in this world . for what is a man profited if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul ? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul ? wherein we may consider these three particulars ; . the possibility supposed of losing the soul ; though a man should gain the whole world . . the hazard implied of the loss of the soul for the sake of the gain of the world . . the folly expressed of losing the soul , though it be for the gain of the whole world . . the possibility supposed of the loss of the soul in another world ; for the force of our saviours argument depends wholly on the supposition of the certainty of the souls being in another state ; and its capacity of happiness or misery therein . for , setting that aside there can be no argument strong enough to perswade any man to part not only with what he hath or hopes for in this life , but with life it self . he that is so great a fool to be an atheist , would yet be much more so to be a martyr for his opinion . what is there could recompence the loss of life , to a man that believes that there is nothing after it ? but supposing there should be a life to come , as it is impossible to give any demonstration to the contrary , what madness would it be , for a man to run himself into the miseries of another world with a design to prove there is none ? if all that our saviour had meant , were only to represent the folly of a person , that would lay down his life for the purchase of an estate , ( for so the soul is often taken for the life ) that would not have reached the scope and design of his discourse . and no instances can be produced of such a kind of folly , which would be as great as for a man to lose his head for a wager , or to purchase the lease of his life by destroying himself . but supposing this to be a proverbial speech , yet the folly of losing a mans life for the gain of the whole world is not brought in by our saviour meerly for it self : but as it doth much more represent the unspeakable folly of such who for the love of this world will venture the loss of all eternal life , and enduring all the misery which is consequent upon it . if that man would gain nothing by his bargain but the reputation of a fool , that for the possession of the whole world for one momen , would be content to be killed in the next ; how much greater folly are they guilty of , that for the sake of this world and the preservation of their lives here , expose themselves to all the miseries of another life , which god hath threatned or their souls can undergo ? it is such a loss of the soul which is here spoken of , as is consistent with the preservation of this present life ; for whosoever , saith christ , will save his life shall lose it ; and to those words before , those of the text have a particular reference , and therefore must be understood not of losing this life , but of the loss of the soul in a future state . and this loss cannot be understood of the souls annhilation or ceasing to be , as soon as the life is gone ; for that being supposed , he would be the happiest man that had the most of this world at his command and enjoyed the greatest pleasure in it . so st. paul himself determines , that if there were no future state , the epicureans argument would take place , (a) let us eat and drink for tomorrow we die : and he reckons those among the most miserable of all mankind who ventured the loss of all that is accounted desirable in this world and of their lives too , if there were not a better life to come . (b) for if in this life only we have hope in christ , saith he , we are of all men the most miserable . so that the strength of our saviour's discourse depends upon the supposition of the immortality of the soul , and its capacity of being happy or miserable in a future state . and it is the great commendation of the christian religion , that the particular duties required in it are established on the same foundations that natural religion is , which are the belief of a deity and the immortality of the soul. (c) for he that comes unto god must believe that he is , and that he is a rewarder of them that seek him ; which being spoken with a respect to one who for being good was translated out of this world , must refer to the rewards of a future life . and we desire no more than these common principles of religion to make the most difficul● duties of christianity appear reasonable to mankind . for it is upon the account of this future state of the soul , that it is our most just and necessary care to look after the welfare of our souls in the first place , to seek the kingdom of god and the righteousness thereof , before the concernments of this present life , because a state that endures for ever ought to be preferred before a short and uncertain abode in this world . it is this , which makes it reasonable to please god , though to the displeasing our selves and the crossing our natural inclinations ; because eternal happiness and misery depends upon his favour or displeasure . it is this , which obliges men to the greatest care of their actions , because their future state in another world , will be according to their lives here , for every man shall then receive according to his works . it is this , which ought to keep men from all fleshly lusts , not meerly because they are inconvenient for their bodies , but because they war against their souls . it is this , which makes the love of this world so dangerous a thing , because it draws away the hearts and affections of men from things which are above and fixes them upon things below . it is this , which make it necessary for us to subdue our passions , to conquer temptations , to forgive injuries , to be patient under afflictions , and to lay down our lives for religion , because there will be a reward for the righteous , and the happiness of another state will make abundant recompence for all the difficulties of this . so that in the gospel the doctrine of the souls immortality is not spoken of as the nice speculation of subtile and contemplative men ; nor meerly suposed as a foundation of all religion , but it is interwoven in the substance of it , and adds strength to all its parts . for herein we find the immortality of the soul not barely asserted , nor proved by uncertain arguments , nor depending on the opinion of philosophers ; but delivered with the greatest authority , revealed with the clearest light , and confirmed by the strongest evidence . if any one can make known to mankind the state of souls in another world it must be god himself ; if ever it was made known plainly by him it must be in the gospel , whereby (a) life and immortality are brought to light ; if ever any arguments were proper to convince mankind of it , they are such as are contained therein . for it is not barely the resurrection of our lord , which is a manifest evidence of the truth of the souls subsisting a●●er a real death ; but the whole design of his doctrine and the christian religion is built upon it . so that if we suppose the immortality of the soul the christian religion appears more reasonable by it ; but if we suppose the doctrine of christ to be true there can be no doubt left of the immortality of the soul ; and whatever arguments we have to prove the truth of this doctrine by , the same do of necessity prove the certainty of the souls immortality . i confess many subtile arguments have been used by those who never knew any thing of divine revelation to prove the soul to be of such a nature , that it was not capable of dying with the body ; and some of them such as none of their adversaries were ever able to answer . for the most common acts of sense are unaccountable in a meer mechanical way ; and after all the attempts of the most witty and industrious men i despair of ever seeing the powers of meer matter raised to a capacity of performing the lowest acts of perception ; and much more of those nobler faculties of memory , understanding and will. but although the arguments from hence are sufficient to justifie the belief of the souls immortality to all considering men ; yet the far greatest part of mankind was never so ; and a matter of so great consequence as this is , ought to be proposed in the most plain , most certain , and most effectual manner . while these disputes were managed among the philosophers of old , though those who asserted the immortality of the soul had the better reason of their side ; yet their adversaries spake with greater confidence ; and that always bears the greatest sway among injudicious people . and some men are always fond of a reputation for wit by opposing common opinions though never so true and useful : especially when they serve a bad end in it , and do thereby plead for their own impieties . but it cannot be denied , that those who were in the right did likewise give too great advantage to their enemies , partly by their own diffidence and distrust of what they had contended for , partly from the too great niceness and subtilty of their arguments , partly from the ridiculous fopperies which they maintained together with that of the souls immortality , as the transmigration of them into the bodies of brutes and such like . but the main disadvantage of all to the world was , that the immortality of the soul was rather insisted on as a principle of philosophy than of religion . some of the best of their arguments were such as made the souls of brutes immortal as well as those of men ; and those could not be imagined to have any great force on the lives of men , which would equally hold for such creatures which were not capable of rewards and punishments in another life . but therein lies the great excellency of the doctrine of the souls immortality as it is discovered in the gospel , not only that it comes from him who best understands the nature of souls , but is delivered in such a manner as is most effectual for the reformation of mankind . for the fullest account herein given of it is by the rewards and punishments of another life ; and those not poetically described by fictions and romances ; but delivered with the plainness of truth , the gravity of a law , the severity of a judge , the authority of a law-giver , the majesty of a prince , and the wisdom of a deity . wherein the happiness described is such as the most excellent minds think it most desirable ; and the misery so great as all that consider it , must think it most intolerable . and both these are set forth with so close a respect to the actions of this life , that every one must expect in another world , according to what he doth in this . how is it then possible that the doctrine of the souls being in another state , could be recommended with greater advantage to mankind , than it is in the gospel ? and what is there can be imagined to take off the force of this , but the proving an absolute incapacity in the soul of subsisting after death ? it is true , indeed in the state of this intimate union and conjunction between the soul and body , they do suffer mutually from each other . but if the souls suffering on the account of the body , as in diseases of the brain , be sufficient to prove there is no soul ; why may not the bodies suffering on the account of the soul , as in violent passions of the mind , as well prove that there is no body ? it is not enough then to prove that the soul doth in some things suffer from the body ; ( for so doth the child in the mothers womb from the distempers of its mother , yet very capable of living when separated from her ) but it must be shewed that the soul is not distinct from the body to prove it uncapable of being without it . but on the other side , i shall now shew that there is nothing unreasonable in what the scripture delivers concerning the immortal state of the souls of men ▪ as to future rewards and punishments , because there are those things now in them considered as distinct from their bodies , which make them capable of either of them . and those are , . that they are capable of pleasure and pain distinct from the body . . that they have power of determining their own actions . . that the souls of men are capable of pleasure and pain distinct from the pleasure and pain of the body . where-ever pleasure and pain may be , there must be a capacity of rewards and punishments , for a reward is nothing but the heightning of pleasure , and punishment an increase of pain ; and if there be both these in men of which no account can be given from their bodies , there must be a nobler principle within , which we call the soul , which is both the cause and the subject of them . we may as easily imagine that a fox should leave his prey to find out a demon●tration in euclid , or a serpent attempt the squaring of the circle in the dust , or all the fables of aesop to become real his●ories , and the birds and beasts turn wits and polititians , as be able to give an account of those we call pleasures of the mind from the affections of the body . the transport of joy which archimedes was in at the finding out his desired problem , was a more certain evidence of the real pleasures of the mind , than the finding it was of the greatness of his wit. could we ever think that men who understood themselves would spend so much time in lines , and numbers , and figures , and examining problems and demonstrations which depend upon them , if they found not a great delight and satisfaction in the doing of it ? but whence doth this pleasure arise ? not from seeing the figures , or meer drawing the lines , or calculating the numbers , but by deducing the just and necessary consequences of one thing from another ; which would afford no more pleasure to a man without his soul , than a book of geometry would give to a herd of swine . it is the soul alone which takes pleasure in the search and finding out such truths , which can have no kind of respect to the body ; it is that , which can put the body out of order with its own pleasures , by spending so much time in contemplation as may exhaust the spirits , abate the vigour of the body and hasten its decay . and while that droops and sinks under the burden , the soul may be as vigorous and active in such a consumptive state of the body as ever it was before ; the understanding as clear , the memory as strong , the entertainments of the mind as great , as if the body were in perfect health . it is a greater and more manly pleasure , which some men take in searching into the nature of these things in the world than others can take in the most voluptuous enjoyment of them ; the one can only satisfie a bruitish appetite , while , it may be , something within is very unquiet and troublesom ; but the other brings a solid pleasure to the mind without any regret or disturbance from the body . by this we see , that setting aside the consideration of religion , the mind of man is capable of such pleasures ●eculiar to it self , of which no account could be given , if there were not a spiritual and therefore immortal being within us , not only distinct from the body , but very far above it . but the very capacity of religion in mankind doth yet further evidence the truth of it . i would fain understand how men ever came to be abused with the notion of religion , as some men are willing to think they are , if there were not some faculties in them above those of sense and imagination ? for where we find nothing else but these , we see an utter incapacity of any such thing as religion is ; in some brute creatures we find great subtilty and strange imitations of reason ; but we can find nothing like religion among them . how should it come to be otherwise among men , if imagination were the highest faculty in man ; since the main principles of religion are as remote from the power of imagination as may be ? what can be thought more repugnant to all the conceptions we take in by our senses , than the conception of a deity and the future state of souls is ? how then come the impressions of these things to sink so deep into humane nature , that all the art and violence in the world can never take them out ? the strongest impressions upon all other beings are such as are suitable to their natures , how come those in mankind to be such as must be supposed to be not only above but contrary to them if an immortal soul be not granted ? if men had no principle within them beyond that of sense , nothing would have been more easie , than to have shaken off the notion of a deity and all apprehension of a future state : but this hath been so far from easie , that it is a thing utterly impossible to be done : all the wit and arts , all the malice and cruelty , all the racks and torments that could yet be thought on could not alter mens perswasions of the christian religion , much less raze out the foundations of natural religion in the world . but what imaginable account can be given of the joys and pleasures , which the martyrs of old expressed under the most exquisite torments of their bodies ; if their minds were not of a far nobler and diviner nature than their bodies were ? although a natural stupidity and dulness of temper may abate the sense of pain , although an obstinate resolution may keep men from complaining of it ; yet , not only to bear the cross but to embrace it ; to be not only patient but pleasant under tortures ; nay , to sing with greater joy in the flames than others do when they are heated with wine , doth not only shew that there is something within us capable of pleasure distinct from the body , but that the pleasures of it may be so great as to swallow up the pains of the body . but i need not have recourse to such great and extraordinary instances , ( although sufficiently attested by such who saw and heard them ) for every good man hath that inward pleasure in being and doing good , which he would not part with for all the greatest epicurism in the world . and where there is , or may be so great pleasure , no wonder if there be likewise a sense of pain proportionable to it ; witness those gripes and tortures of conscience which wicked men undergo from the reflection upon themselves ; when their own evil actions fill them with horror and amazement , when the cruelties they have used to others return with greater violence upon their own minds , when the unlawful pleasures of the body prove the greatest vexation to their souls , and the weight of their evil actions sinks them under despair and the dreadful apprehensions of future misery . these are things we need not search histories , or cite ancient authors for ; every man 's own conscience will tell him , if he hath not lost all sense of good and evil ; that as there is a real pleasure in doing good , there is the greatest inward pain in doing evil . having thus shewed that the soul of man is capable of pleasure and pain in this present state distinct from the body , it thence follows , that it is capable of rewards and punishments , when it shall be separated from it . . that the souls of men have a power of determining their own actions ; without which there could be no reasonable account given of the rewards and punishments of another life . were i to prove liberty in man from the ●upposition of religion i know no argument more plain or more convincing than that which is drawn from the consideration of future rewards and punishments : but being now to prove a capacity of rewards and punishments from the consideration of liberty , i must make use of other means to do it by . and what can be imagined greater evidence in beings capable of reflecting upon themselves , than the constant sense and experience of all mankind ? not that all men are agreed in their opinions about these things ; ( for even herein men shew their liberty , by resisting the clearest evidence to prove it ) but that every man finds himself free in the determining his moral actions . and therefore he hath the same reason to believe this , which he hath of his own being or understanding . for what other way hath a man to know that he understands himself or any thing else , but the sense of his own mind ? and those who go about to perswade men that they think themselves free when they are not , may in the next place perswade them that they think they understand when they do not . nay , they might hope in the first place to perswade men out of their understandings , for we are not so competent judges of the more necessary and natural acts , for men understand whether they will or no , as of the more free and voluntary ; for in this case every man can when he pleases put a tryal upon himself , and like the confuting the arguments against motion by moving , can shew the folly of all the pleas for fatal necessity by a freedom of action but if once this natural liberty be taken away , wisdom and folly as well as vice and vertue would be names invented to no purpose ; no men can be said to be better or wiser than others , if their actions do not depend on their own choice and consideration , but on a hidden train of causes which it is no more in a man's power to hinder than in the earth to hinder the falling of rain upon it . if therefore sense and reason may prevail upon mankind , not to fancy themselves under invisible chains and fetters , of which they can have no evidence or experience ; we may thence infer the soul's capacity of rewards and punishments in another life , since happiness and misery are set before them , and it must be their own voluntary choice which brings them to either of them : when either by their own folly they run themselves upon everlasting ruine , or by making use of the assistance of divine grace they become capable of endless joy. but since men have not only a power of gorverning themselves , but are capable of doing it by considerations as remote from the things of sense as heaven is from earth ; it is not conceivable there should be such a power within us , if there were not an immortal soul which is the subject of it . for what is there that hath the shadow of liberty in meer matter ? what is there of these inferiour creatures that can act by consideration of future things , but only man ? whence comes man to consider but from his reason ? or to guide himself by the consideration of future and eternal things , but from an immortal principle within him ; which alone can make things at a distance to be as present ; can represent to it self the infinite pleasures and unconceivable misery of an eternal state in such a manner as to direct the course of this present life in order to the obtaining of the one and avoiding of the other . and thus much concerning the supposition here made of the loss of the soul , and its immortality implied therein . i come to consider the hazard of losing the soul for the gain of this world . for although our saviour puts the utmost supposable case , the better to represent the folly of losing the soul for the sake of the world ; yet he doth imply the danger may be as great , although a man's ambition never comes to be so extravagant , as to aim at the possession of the whole world . the whole world can never make amends for the loss of the soul ; yet the soul may be lost for a very inconsiderable part of it ; although all the wealth and treasures of the indies can never compensate to a man the loss of his life , yet that may he in as great danger of losing upon far easier terms than those are . it is not to be thought that those whom our saviour speaks to , could ever propose such vast designs to themselves as the empire of the whole world was ; but , he tells them , if that could be supposed , it were far more desirable to save a soul than to gain the world , yet such is the folly of mankind to lose their souls for a very small share of this present world . for the temptations of this world are so many , so great , so pleasing to mankind , and the love of life so natural and so strong , that inconsiderate men will run any hazard of their souls for the gain of one or preservation of the other . the highest instance of this kind is that which our saviour here intends , when men will make shipwrack of faith and a good conscience to escape the danger of their lives ; or with iudas will betray their saviour for some present gain although very far short of that of the whole world . and if i be not much mistaken , it is upon this account , that our saviour pronounces it so hard (a) for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven , because in such difficult times of persecution on the account of religion as those were , such men would be shrewdly tempted to venture the loss of their souls in another world rather than of their estates in this . for it was the young man's unwillingness to part with his great possessions to follow christ , which gave him occasion to utter that hard saying . it is on this account st. paul saith , (a) the love of money is the root of all evil , which while some have coveted after they have erred from the faith and pierced themselves through with many sorrows : it was on this account , (b) that demas forsook paul , having loved this present world : and that (c) the friendship of this world is said to be enmity with god , and that our saviour saith , (d) no man can serve two masters ; for either he will hate the one and love the other ; else he will hold to the one and despise the other ; ye cannot serve god and mammon . which doth suppose that these two doth require two contrary things at the same time ; for if a hundred masters did all require the same thing , a man might , in doing that , be said to serve them all . but when religion requires that we must part with all for that , and the world requires that we must part with religion to preserve our interest in it , then it is impossible to serve god and mammon together ; for we must hold to the one and despise the other . but what then ? is there no danger of the loss of the soul for the sake of this world , but only in the case of persecution ? then , some may say , we hope there is no fear now of mens being too rich to go to heaven . thanks be to god that we live in times free from such dangerous tryals as those of persecution are , and wherein men may quietly enjoy their estates , and the best religion in the world together : but although there be no danger of splitting upon the rocks , there may be of sinking with being overcharged or springing too great a leak within us , whereby we let in more than we can be able to bear . and supposing the most prosperous and easie condition men can fancy to themselves here ; yet the things of this world are so great occasions of evil , so great hindrances of good , that on these accounts men always run a mighty hazard of their souls for the sake of this world . the devil knew well enough where his greatest strength lay , when he reserved the (a) temptation of the glories of this world to the last place in dealing with christ himself ; when nothing else would prevail upon him , he was yet in hopes that the greatness and splendour of this world would bring him to his terms . and surely if the devil had not a mighty opinion of the power of these charms of the kingdoms and glory of this world , he would never have put such hard terms to them which were no less than falling down and worshipping him : which we do not find he ever durst so much as mention before till he held this bait in his hand . and although our saviour baffled him in this his strongest temptation , yet he still finds , that far less than what he here offered , will bring men in subjection to him . how small a matter of gain will tempt some men to all the sins of lying , of fraud and injustice ? who pawn their souls and put them out at interest for a very small present advantage , although they are sure in a very little time to lose both their interest and the principal too . how many , for the sake of the honours and preferments of this world , are willing to do by their consciences as the indian did by his letter , lay them aside till their business be done and then expect to hear no more of them ! what poor and trifling things in this world , do men continually venture their souls for ? as though all were clear gains which they could put off so dead a commodity as the salvation of their souls for . how apt are such to applaud themselves for their own skill , when meerly by a little swearing , and lying , and cheating , things which cost them nothing but a few words , they can defeat the designs of their enemies and compass their own ! but how low is the rate of souls fallen in the esteem of such persons as these are ! if they had not been of any greater value , they had not been worth any ordinary man's , much less , the son of god's laying down his life for the redemption of them . is this all the requital men make him for the travail of his soul , the wounds of his body , the bitterness of his passion , to squander away those souls upon any trifling advantages of this world , which he shed his most precious blood for the redemption of ? whenever men are tempted to sin with the hopes of gain , let them but consider how much they undervalue not only their own souls , but the eternal son of god , and all that he hath done and suffered for the sake of the souls of men : if there had been no greater worth in our souls , silver and gold would have been a sufficient price of redemption for them ( for if men lose their souls for these things , it is a sign they set a higher value upon them . ) but god's justice was not to be bribed , his wrath against sin was not to be appeased by the greatest riches of this world , nothing but the inestimable blood of christ would be accepted for the purchase of souls ; and when they are so dearly bought must they be cast away upon such trifles as the riches and honours of this world are , in comparison with them ? these are men who lose their souls upon design , but there are others so prodigal of them , that they can play and sport them away , or lose them only because it is the custom to do so . with whom all the reasons and arguments in the world cannot prevail to leave off their sins , if it once be accounted a ●ashion to commit them . yea , so dangerous things are fashionable vices , that some will seem to be worse than they are , ( although few continue long hypocritical in that way ) that they might not be out of the fashion , and some will be sure to follow it ( if not out-do it ) though to the eternal ruine of their souls . but although all damn'd persons at the great day will be confounded and ashamed , yet none will be more ridiculously miserable than such who go to hell for fashion-sake . what a strange account would this be at the dreadful day of judgment for any to plead for themselves , that they knew that chastity , temperance , sobriety and devotion were things more pleasing to god , but it was grown a mode to be vicious , and they had rather be damned th●n be out of the fashion ? the most charitable opinion we can have of such persons now , is , that they do not think they have any souls at all ; for it is prodigious folly for men to believe they have souls that are immortal , and yet be so regardless of them . yet these who are vicious out of complyance are not the only persons who shew so little care of their souls , what shall we say to those who enjoying the good things of this life , scarce ever do so much as think of another ? who are very solicitous about every little mode of attire for their bodies , and think no time long enough to be spent in the grand affairs of dressing and adorning their out-sides ; but from one end of the year to the other never spend one serious thought about eternity , or the future state of their souls . their utmost contrivances are how to pass away their days with the greatest ease and pleasure to themselves ; and never consider what will become of their souls when they come to die . alas poor immortal souls ! are they become the only contemptible things men have about them ? all care is l●ttle enough with some for the body , for the pampering and indulging of that , and making provision for the flesh to fulfil the lusts thereof ; but any cure is thought too much for the soul ; and no time passes so heavily away , as the hours of devotion do . the very shew of religion is looked on as a burden , what then do they think of the practice of it ? the devil himself shews a greater es●eem of the souls of men , than such persons do ; for he hath been always very active and industrious in seeking their ruin , but is ready enough to comply with all the inclinations of the body , or mens designs in this world ; nay he makes the greatest use of these as the most powerful temptations for the ruin of their souls ; by all which it is evident , that , being our greatest enemy , he aims only at the ruin of that which is of greatest value and consideration , and that is the thing so much despised by wicked men , viz. the soul. these do in effect , tell the devil he may spare his pains in tempting them ; they can do his work fast enough themselves , and destroy their own souls without any help from him . and if all men were so bent upon their own ruin , the devil would have so little to do , that he must find out some other imployment besides that of tempting to divert himself with , unless it be the greatest diversion of all to him , to see men turned devils to themselves . but are the temptations of this world so infatuating that no reason or consideration can bring men to any care of or regard to their souls ? we have no ground to think so , since there have been and i hope still are such , who can despise the glittering vanities , the riches and honours , the pleasures and delights of this world when they stand in competition with the eternal happiness of their souls in a better world . and that not out of a sullen humour or a morose temper , or a discontented mind ; but from the most prudent weighing and ballancing the gain of this world and the loss of the soul together . for what is a man profited if he gain the whole world , and lose his own soul or what shall he give in exchange for his soul. . which is the last particular , to represent the folly of losing the soul , though it were for the gain of the whole world . which will appear by comparing the gain and the loss with each other in these four things . . the gain here proposed is at the best but possible to one ; but the hazard of losing the soul is certain to all . and what folly is it for men to run themselves upon so great and certain danger , for so uncertain gain , which never any man yet attained to , or is like to do it ? our saviour knew how hard a matter it was to set any bounds to the ambitious thoughts or the covetous designs of men : every step the ambitious man takes higher gives him the fairer prospect before him ; it raises his thoughts , enlarges his desires , puts new projects into his mind , which like the circles of water spread still farther and farther , till his honour and he be both laid in the dust together : the covetous person is never satisfied with what he enjoys , the more he gets , still the more he hopes for ; and like the grave whither he is going , is always devouring and always craving : yet neither of these can be thought so vain as to propose no less to themselves than the empire or riches of the whole world . but our saviour allows them the utmost , that ever can be supposed as to mens designs for this world ; let men be never so ambitious or covetous , they could desire no more than all the world ; though they would have all this , yet this all would never make amends for the loss of the soul. it is a thing possible , that one person might by degrees bring the whole world in subjection to him , but it is possible in so remote a degree that no man in his wits can be thought to design it . how small a part of the inhabited world have the greatest conquerours been able to subdue ! and if the macedonian prince was ever so vain to weep that he had no more worlds to conquer , he gave others a just occasion to laugh at so much ignorance which made him think he had conquered this . and to put a check to such a troublesome ambition of disturbing the world in others , how early was he taken away in the midst of his vast thoughts and designs ? what a small thing would the compass of the whole earth appear to one that should behold it at the distance of the fixed stars ? and the mighty empires which have made the greatest noise in the world have taken up but an inconsiderable part of the whole earth . what are then those mean designs which men continually hazard their souls for as much as if they aimed at the whole world ? for we are not to imagine that only kings and princes are in any hazard of losing their souls for the sake of this world ; for it is not the greatness of mens condition , but their immoderate love to the world which ruins and destroys their souls . and covetousness and ambition do not always raign in courts and palaces , they can stoop to the meanness of a cottage , and ruin the souls of such as want the things of this world as well as those that enjoy them . so that no state o● condition of men is exempt from the hazard of losing the soul for the love of this world , although but one person can be supposed at once to have the possession of the whole world . . the gain of this world brings but an imaginary happiness , but the loss of the soul a most real misery . it is easie to suppose a person to have the whole world at his command and not himself ; and how can that man be happy that is not at his own command ? the cares of government in a small part of the earth are so great and troublesome , that by the consent of mankind the managers of it are invested with more than ordinary priviledges by way of recompence for them ; but what are these to the solicitous thoughts , the continual fears , the restless imployments , the uninterrupted troubles which must attend the gain of the whole world ? so that after all the success of such a mans designs , he may be farther off from any true contentment than he was at the beginning of them . and in that respect mens conditions seem to be brought to a greater equality in the world , because those who enjoy the most of the world do oft-times enjoy the least of themselves ; which hath made some great emperours lay down their crowns and scepters to enjoy themselves in the retirements of a cloyster or a garden . all the real happiness of this world lies in a contented mind , and that we plainly see doth not depend upon mens outward circumstances ; for some men may be much farther from it in a higher condition in this world , than others are , or it may be themselves have been , in a far lower . but if mens happiness did ari●e from any thing without them , that must be always agreeable to their outward condition ; but we find great difference as to mens contentment in equal circumstances , and many times much greater in a private state of life , than in the most publick capacity . by which it appears , that whatever looks like happiness in this world , depends upon a mans soul , and not upon the gain of the world ; nay it is only from thence that ever men are able to abuse themselves with false notions and idea's of happiness here . but none of those shall go into another world with them ; farewel then to all imaginary happiness ; to the pleasures of sin , and the cheats of a deceitful world ; then nothing but the dreadful apprehensions of its own misery shall possess that soul which shall then too late discern its folly , and lament it when it is past recovery . then the torments of the mind shall never be imputed to melancholy vapours , or a disordered fancy . there will be no drinking away sorrows , no jesting with the sting of conscience , no playing with the flames of another world . god will then no longer be mocked by wicked men , but they shall find to their own eternal horrour and confusion , that it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living god. he neither wants power to inflict , nor justice to execute , nor vengeance to pursue , nor wrath to punish ; but his power is irresistible , his justice inflexible , and his wrath is insupportable . consider now o foolish sinner that hast hitherto been ready to cast away thy soul upon the pleasures of sin for a season , what a wise exchange thou wilt make of a poor imaginary happiness for a most real and intollerable misery . what will all the gain of this world signifie in that state whither we are all hastening apace ? what contentment will it be to thee then to think of all those bewitching vanities , which have betrayed thy soul into unspeakable misery ? wouldst thou be willing to be treated with all the ceremonies of state and greatness for an hour or two , if thou wert sure that immediately after thou must undergo the most exquisite tortures and be ●acked and tormented to death ? when men neglect their souls and cast them away upon the sinful pleasures and gains of this world , it is but such a kind of airy and phantastical happiness ; but the miseries of a lost soul are infinitely beyond the racks and torments of the body . it hath sometimes happened that the horrour of despair hath seized upon mens minds for some notorious crimes in this life , which hath given no rest either to body or mind , but the violence of the inward pains have forced them to put an end to this miserable life ; as in the case of iudas . but if the expectation of future misery be so dreadful , what must the enduring of it be ? of all the ways of dying we can hardly imagine any more painful or full of horrour than that of sacrificing their children to molock was among the canaanites , and children of amon where the children were put into the body of a brass image and a fire made under it , which by degrees with lamentable shrieks and cryings roasted them to death ; yet this above all others in the new testament is chosen as the fittest representation of the miseries of another world , and thence the very name of gehenna is taken . but as the joys of heaven will far surpass all the pleasure which the mind of a good man hath in this life ; so will the torments of hell as much exceed the greatest miseries of this world . but in the most exquisite pains of the body there is that satisfaction still left , that death will at last put an end to them ; but that is a farther discovery of the unspeakable folly of losing the soul for the sake of this world , that . the happiness of this world can last but for a little time , but the misery of the soul will have no end . suppose a man had all the world at his command , and enjoyed as much satisfaction in it as it was possible for humane nature to have ; yet the very thoughts of dying and leaving all in a short time , must needs make his happiness seem much less considerable to him . and every wise man would provide most for that state wherein he is sure to continue longest . the shortness of life makes the pleasures of it less desireable , and the miseries less dreadful : but an endless state makes every thing of moment which belongs to it . where there is variety and liberty of change , there is no necessity of any long deliberation before-hand , but for that which is to continue always the same the greatest consideration is needful , because the very continuance of some things is apt to bring weariness and satiety with it . if a man were bound for his whole life-time to converse only with one person without so much as seeing any other , he would desire time and use his best judgment in the choice of him . if one were bound to lie in the same posture without any motion but for a month together , how would he imploy his wits before-hand to make it as easie and tolerable as might be ? thus solicitous and careful would men be for any thing that was to continue the same although but for a short time here : but what are those things to the endless duration of a soul in a misery , that is a perpetual destruction , and everlasting death ; always intolerable , and yet must always be endured . a misery that must last when time it self shall be no more , and the utmost periods we can imagine fall infinitely short of the continuance of it . o the unfathomable abyss of eternity ! how are our imaginations lost in the conceptions of it ! but what will it then be to be swallowed up in an abyss of misery and eternity together ? and i do not know how such an eternal state of misery could have been represented in scripture in words more emphatical than it is ; not only by everlasting fire , and everlasting destruction , but by a worm that never dies , and a fire that never goes out ; and the very same expressions are used concerning the eternal state of the blessed and the damned ; so that if there were any reason to question the one , there would be the same to question the other also . . the loss of this world may be abundantly recompenced , but the loss of the soul can never be . for what shall a man give in exchange for his soul ? if a man runs the hazard of losing all that is valuable or desirable in this world for the sake of his soul , heaven and eternal happiness will make him infinite amends for it . he will have no cause to repent of his bargain that parts with his share in this evil world for the joys and glories that are above . they who have done this in the resolution of their minds , have before-hand had so great satisfaction in it , (a) that they have gloried in tribulations , and rejoyced in hopes of the glory of god ; they have upon casting up their accounts found , (a) that the sufferings of this present life are not worthy to be compared with the glory that shall be revealed ; because the afflictions they meet with here are but light and momentany , but that which they expected in recompence for them , (b) was an exceeding and an eternal weight of glory . o blessed change ! what life can be so desirable as the parting with it is on such terms as these ? it was the hopes of this glorious recompence which inspired so many martyrs to adventure for heaven with so much courage , patience , and constancy in the primitive times of the christian church . how do they look down from heaven and despise all the vanities of this world in comparison with what they enjoy ! and if they are sensible of what is done on earth , with what pity do they behold us miserable creatures , that for the sake of the honours , pleasures , or riches of this world venture the loss of all which they enjoy and thereby of their souls too ! which is a loss so great , that no recompence can ever be made for it , no price of redemption can ever be accepted for the delivery of it . for even the son of god himself who laid down his life for the redemption of souls , shall then come from heaven with flaming fire to take vengeance on all those who so much despise the blood he hath shed for them , the warnings he hath given to them , the spirit he hath promised them , the reward he is ready to bestow upon them , as in spight of all to cast away those precious and immortal souls which he hath so dearly bought with his own blood . methinks the consideration of these things might serve to awaken our security , to cure our stupidity , to check our immoderate love of this world , and inflame our desires of a better . wherein can we shew our selves men more than by having the greatest regard to that which makes us men ? which is our souls . wherein can we shew our selves christians better , than by abstaining from all those hurtful lusts which war against our souls , and doing those things which tend to make them happy ? we are all walking upon the shore of eternity , and for all that we know the next tide may sweep us away ; shall we only sport and play or gather cockle-shells and lay them in heaps like children , till we are snatched away past all recovery ? it is no such easie matter to prevent the losing our souls as secure sinners are apt to imagine . it was certainly to very little purpose that we are bid (a) to work out our salvation if lying still would do it ; or (b) to give all diligence about it , if none would serve the turn : (c) or to strive to enter in at the straight gate , if it were so wide to receive all sinners . no : (d) many shall seek to enter in and shall not be able ; what then shall become of those that run as far from it as they can ? those , i mean , whom no intreaties of god himself , no kindness of his son , no not the laying down his life for their souls , no checks or rebukes of their own consciences can hinder from doing those things which do without a speedy and sincere repentance exclude men from the kingdom of heaven . o that men could at last be perswaded to understand themselves and set a just value upon their immortal souls ! how would they then despise the vanities , conquer the temptations , and break through the difficulties of this present world , and by that means fit their souls for the eternal enjoyment of that blessed state of souls which god the father hath promised , his son hath purchased , and the holy ghost hath confirmed . to whom be rendred , &c. finis . errata . pag. . l. . for be r. by . p. . l. . dele the. p. . l. . for then r. that . p. . l. . r. then give . p. . l. . for mind r. wind. p. . l. . r. enjoy'd . p. . l. . r. coming again for . p. . l. . r. as a. p. . l. . for cure r. care . advertisement . newly printed a discourse concerning the doctrine of christ's satisfaction ; or the true reason of his sufferings , with an answer to the socinian objections : to which is added a sermon concerning the mysteries of the christian faith , preached april th . . with a preface concerning the true state of the controversie about christ's satisfaction : by the right reverend father in god edward lord bishop of worcester : sold by h. mortlock at the phoenix in st. pauls church-yard . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e (a) lam. . . (a) luke . . , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . de bell . jud. l. . c. . (a) jude . (a) tacit. an. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . xiphil . in epit . dion . in tito . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . herodian in commod . hist. l. . p. . v. xiphil . ad fin . commodi . (b) niceph. l. . c. . (a) evagr. l. . cap. . (b) baron . tom. . a. . . (a) hieron in loc . (a) gildas de excid . brit. (a) scipio apud aug de civ . d. l. . c. . (a) gicer pro flacco . (b) h●b . . . (a) isa. . , , . (a) zeph. . , , ● . (a) amos . (a) lact. l. . c. . (a) rev. . . notes for div a -e (a) kin. . , , . (a) joh. . . (b) nicol. damascen . de moribus gent. p. . ed. cragii . (a) geta in appiano . (b) herod . thal. v synes . de laude . calvivitii . p. . (a) tit. . . (a) tacit. de moribus german . (a) gal. . . (b) eph . . notes for div a -e (a) luke . , . (a) rom. . , , , , . (a) titus . . notes for div a -e (a) rom. . . (a) rom. . . (a) rom. . . (b) gal. . . (c) rom. . . notes for div a -e (a) matth. ● . . (a) heb. . , . (a) mark . . (a) matth. . . (b) v. . (c) v. . (d) v. . (a) v. . (b) v. . (a) v. . (b) v. , , . (a) v. lud. viv. ad s. aug de civit. dei , l. . c. . (a) mat. . . (b) mark . . (c) thes. . . (d) thes. . . (e) mat. . . (a) cor. . . (b) rev. . . (a) heb. . . (a) gal. . , . notes for div a -e (a) heb. . . (a) john . (a) matt. . , . (b) john . ● . (a) mat. . . (a) luk. . . (b) mat. . . (c) isa. . , . (d) mat. . . (e) luke ● . . (a) mat. . , . (b) luke . . (a) mat. ● . ● . (a) joh . . (a) mat. ● . . (a) orig. c. cels. l. . p. . (b) august . de civit. dei , l. . c. . (c) cur ergo damnatus est ? respondit dea : corpus quidem debilitantibus tormentis semper oppositum est , anima autem piorum coelesti sedi insidet . (a) john . . (a) pet. . , , . (a) plin. nat. hist. l. . . (b) scalig. hist. anim . l. . sect . ● . (a) tull t●sculan . l . (a) aub. miraeus in vit â lipsii . p. . (a) joh. . (a) isa. . . (a) cor. . . (a) quod caetera etiam foedera c. so animali aliquo sanciri , & sanguine ejus confirmari solerent . crell . c. grot. ad cap. . p. . (c) v. heins . not . ad sil. p. , . (a) pet. . . (b) isa. . . (c) v. . (d) heb . . v. . (e) joh. . , , . (f) tim. . . (g) cor. . . ephes. . . (h) col. . . (i) rom. . , . (k) rom. . . (a) cor. . , . (b) heb . , . (c) heb. . . . . (a) mat. . . (b) phil . , . (c) cor. . . (d) rom. . . (e) v. . (f) v. . (b) heb. . . notes for div a -e (a) mat. . . (b) rom. . . (a) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . epiphan . haeres . . p. . ed. petav. (b) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . epiph . haeres . . s. . p. . (c) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . theodoret. haeret . fab . l. . p. . (d) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . epiph. haer . sect . . (a) ad utilitatem ergo gentium , terrenum regnum positum est à deo : sed non à diabolo , qui nunquam omnimo quietus est , immo qui nec ipsas quidem gentes vult in tranquillo agere . iren. advers . haer . l. . c. . (b) pet. . . (c) mac . . v. david canz. chronol p. . (a) v. , . (b) v. . (a) numb . . . (b) num. . . . . (a) ioseph . antiq . iud. l. . c. . (a) ioseph antiq . l. . ● . . (b) numb . . . (a) v. . (b) numb . . . (a) numb . . (b) v. . (c) ioseph . l. . , . (a) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . iosephus ant. l. . c. . p. . (a) dio rom. hist. l. . (b) l. . init . (a) num. . . (b) v. . (a) num. . . (b) rom. . , . (a) sam. . . (b) sam. . . (a) sam. . . (b) eccles. . . (a) tit. sanhed . c. . (b) nachman . in lieut. p. . (a) sam. . . (b) jude v. . (a) tit. . . (a) sam. . . notes for div a -e (a) matth. . . (a) luke . , . (b) matth. . . (a) luke . . (a) v. . (a) v. . (b) v. . ios. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . l. . c. . p. . (a) lib. ● . c. . (a) philost . v. apollon . l. . cap. . (a) ios. p. . (a) hos . . (a) hieron . in zeph. . (a) aug. in psal. . (a) chr. , , . (b) kings . . (a) lev. . . (a) exod. . . (a) gen. . . (a) cic. t●sc . . (b) eldad . da●●●a apud b●xcers ● sabbat●●n . praef. in ces. l' empereur in benjam p. , . (a) spes israel . sect . . p. . (a) orat. . c. iud. (a) chrys. 〈…〉 c. ● . ● . socrat . l ● c. ● sozem . l . c . theod. l. . c . amm marcell h●●t . l. . in●t . (a) tit : sanhed . c. . sect . . (a) matth. . . (a) ioseph . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . l. . c. . (a) rom. . , . (b) rom. . . v. . (a) l. . c. . (b) l. . c. . p. . (a) p . notes for div a -e (a) 〈…〉 (a) act. . . (b) v. . l' emperu●r in middoth . p. . buxtorf . lex . rabb . v. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hackspan . disp . philolog p. . tremel . in not . ad syr. n. (a) v. buxtorf . (b) esai . . . (a) heb. . . (b) cor. . . . (a) matth. . . (a) job . . (b) kings . . (c) psal. . . (d) dan. . , . (a) joh. . , . (b) matth. . , . (c) acts . . . . (a) act. . , . (a) dialog . . de . doemoniacis . (b) pomponat . de incantat . c. . p. . (c) acts . , . (a) mark . . (b) matth. . . (a) revel . . . (b) cor. . . (a) vanin . dial. . p. . (a) ac● . . . (b) act. . . (a) act. . (b) v. . v. . (a) luk. . . (a) cor. . . (b) act. . . (a) exod. . . (b) exod. . . (c) act. . , . (a) isa. . . (b) isa. . . (a) john . . revel . . . (b) gen. . . (a) v. . (a) cor. . . notes for div a -e (a) rom. . , , , . (b) joh. . . (a) thess. . , , . (b) matth. . . (a) john . . (a) pro sextioc . . (b) de n. deorum , l. . (c) de leg . l. . (a) cor. . . (b) rom. . . (a) montagne . ess. l. . c. . (a) jer. . , . (a) sal. l. . p. . &c. (b) p. . (a) p. . notes for div a -e (a) v. ● . (a) jud. v. . (a) pet. . . (a) luke . , . (a) luke . , , , , . (a) ch. . . (a) rev. . . (a) gen. . . (a) pet. . , . (a) pet. . . (a) matth. . . (b) thes. . . (a) matth. . . (b) thes. . . (c) john . . (d) psal. . . exod. . . (e) psal. . . (a) zach. . . (b) matth. . rev. . . (c) chap. . . (d) rev. . . (e) rev. . . (a) heb. . . (b) isai. . . (c) dan. . , . (d) thes. . , . (e) john . . (a) matth. . . . mark . . (b) rom. . . (a) cor. . . (a) ezek. . . (a) sam. . , . (b) psal. . . (c) james . . (d) rom. . . pet. . . (a) heb. . . (a) prov. . , , . (b) luke . . (a) isa. . , , . (b) mal. . . joel . . . matt. . . (a) psal. . , . (b) matt. . (a) act. . . (a) eccles. . . (b) john . , , . (c) act. . . (a) pet. . . notes for div a -e (a) cor. . ● . (b) cor. . . (c) heb. . . (a) tim. . . (a) matth. . , . mark . , . luke . , . (a) tim. . . (b) tim. . . (c) james . . (d) matt. . . (a) matt. . , . (a) rom. . , . (a) . . (b) cor. . . (a) phil. . . (b) pet. . . (c) matth. . . (d) luke . . a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome and the danger of salvation in the communion of it in an answer to some papers of a revolted protestant : wherein a particular account is given of the fanaticism and divisions of that church / by edward stilingfleet. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome and the danger of salvation in the communion of it in an answer to some papers of a revolted protestant : wherein a particular account is given of the fanaticism and divisions of that church / by edward stilingfleet. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed by robert white for henry mortlock, london : . reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -- controversial literature. idols and images. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the danger of salvation in the communion of it : in answer to some papers of a revolted protestant . wherein a particular account is given of the fanaticism and divisions of that church . by edward stillingfleet d. d. london , printed by robert white , for henry mortlock at the sign of the phoenix in st. pauls church-yard , and at the white hart in westminster hall , . the preface . although i see no great effect of the courtship commonly used towards the candid and ingenuous reader , unless it be in diverting the censure from the book to the preface : yet in some cases it looks like a breach of the readers priviledge , not to give him an account of the occasion and design of a book . especially , when the matter handled therein , hath been thought so often discussed , and is of so general concernment , that every pretender thinks he knows as much already , as is to be known in it . but we really find no greater advantage hath been given to our adversaries than this , that the things in dispute between us are generally no better understood , by the persons they have their designs upon . for assoon as they have baffled their ignorance and mistakes , these have been ready to yield up themselves and the cause , imagining nothing more could be said for it , than they could say for themselves . whereby our church hath not only suffered in its reputation , as far as that is concerned in the weakness of some of its members ; but strange boasts and triumphs have been made by those of the church of rome , when such who understood not their own religion have embraced theirs . while these disputes were fresh in the world , every one thought himself concerned to enquire into them ; but since our church hath been so long established on the principles of the reformation , and other unhappy controversies have risen up ; the most have taken this cause for granted , and thought it needless to enquire any farther into the grounds of it . which our adversaries perceiving , they have found far greater success in their attempts upon particular persons , than in publick writings : for these have only provoked others to lay open the palpable weakness of their cause , whereas in the other by their wayes of address , and all the arts of insinuation , they have instilled their principles into the minds of some less judicious persons before they were aware of it . thence it is easie to observe that the greatest mischief they have done , hath been like the pestilence by walking in darkness , and spreading their infection by whispers in corners . all their hopes and strength lye in the weakness and credulity of the persons they deal with ; but if they meet with any who truly understand the differences between us , they soon give them over as untractable . but to such , whose employments have not given them leave to enquire or whose capacity hath not been great enough to discern their sophistry ; their first work is , to make a false representation both of the doctrines and practices of their church , and if they be of such easie faith to believe them , they from thence perswade them into an ill opinion of their teachers , who possessed them with so bad thoughts of such a church as theirs . a church of so great holiness ( as may be seen by the saint-like lives of their popes and converts ) a church of so great antiquity ( bating only the primitive times ) a church of so admirable unity ( saving the divisions in it ) a church so free from any fanatick heats ( as any one may believe that will. ) if this first assault doth not make them yield ; but they desire at least time to consider and advise in a matter of so great importance , then they tell them there is not a man of our church dares give any of them a meeting ; if they offer to pu● it to a tryal , they will appoint a day which they foresee will be most inconvenient for the persons they are to meet with . if upon that account , it be declined or deferred , this is spred abroad for a victory ; if it be accepted , then one thing or other happens that they cannot come ; either the person goes out of town unexpectedly , or his superiours have forbidden him ; or such conferences are not safe for them ( they are so sorely persecuted ) or at last , what good can an hours talk do to satisfie any one in matters of religion ? but if there be no remedy , which they are seldome without ; and a conference happen , ( which they scarce ever yield to , but when they are sure of the person for whose sake it is ; ) then whosoever was baffled , they are sure to go away with the triumph ; and as an evidence of it , such a person went off from our church upon it , which was made sure of their side before . if this way takes not , then a sett of questions is ready to be sent ; if another be returned to them to be answered at the same time , this is declined , and complained of as hard dealing , as though they had only the priviledge of putting questions , and we the duty of answering them . if answers be given to them , after a pass or two they put an end to the tryal of their skill in that place , and seek for another to shew it in . but if the papers chance to be slighted , or business hinders a present answer , or there be a reasonable presumption , that the person concerned hath already forsaken our church , this becomes the occasion of a new triumph , the papers are accounted unanswerable ( as the spanish armado was called invincible , which we thank god we found to be otherwise ) and it may be are demanded again as trophies to be preserved for the glory of the catholick cause . all these several wayes i have had experience of in the compass of a few years , since by command i was publickly engaged in the defence of so excellent a cause , as that of our church against the church of rome . i confess it seemed somewhat hard to me , to be put to answer so many several papers which i have received upon their tampering with particular persons of our church , while my book it self remained unanswered by them , after so many years of trying their strength about it . ( for those two who in some small measure have attempted it , have performed it in the way that ratts answer books , by gnawing some of the leaves of them ; for the body and design of it remains wholly untouched by them . ) but for the satisfaction of any person who desired it , i was not willing to decline any service , which tended to so good an end , as the preserving any member of our church in the communion of it : which was the occasion of this present writing . for some time since , the person concerned , after some discourses with her , brought me the two questions mentioned in the beginning of the book ; to which i returned a speedy answer in the midst of many other employments ; not long after , i received the reply ; but hearing for a great while no further of the person for whose sake this discourse began , and having affairs more than enough to take up my time , i laid aside the papers , supposing that business at an end . but about christmass last , they were called for by a near friend of the party concerned , and a personal conference being declined , an intimation was given me , that the papers were thought unanswerable . i began to fear so too , for at first i could not find them ; but assoon as i did , i found the great improvement they had made by lying so long , for what at first i looked on as inconsiderable , was in that time thought to be too strong to be meddled with ; and i could not tell what they might come to in time , if i let them alone any longer . and i was informed by a worthy person that i. s. the man of confidence and principles , had expressed great wonder i had not answered them ; as though we had no cause to wonder that the noble science of controversie should be so abandoned by him , and that a man of such mettal should all this while leave his poor demonstrations alone to defend themselves ? vpon these suggestions i resolved , as fast as other imployments would give leave ( for we are not those happy men to have only one thing to mind ) to give a full and punctual answer to them . which i have now made publick , and printed the papers themselves at large , that my adversary may not complain of any injury done him by mis-representing his words , or meaning . and besides other reasons , i the rather chose to appear in publick , to draw them from their present way of pickeering and lying under hedges , to take advantage of some stragling members of our church , not so able to defend themselves ; and whom they rather steal from us than conquer , being blinded with their smoke , more than overcome by any strength of argument . if they have any thing to say , either against our church , or in defence of their own , let them come into the open field , from which they have of late so wisely withdrawn themselves , finding so little success in it . and since these disputes must be , i am very well pleased , that the adversary i have now to deal with , hath the character of a learned and ingenuous man ; and i do not desire he should lose it in the debate between us ; hoping that nothing shall proceed from me , but what becomes a fair and ingenuous adversary . if i were not fully satisfied that we have truth and reason on our side , i should never have been engaged in these combats ; i am so great a friend to the peace of the christian world , that i could take more pleasure in ending one controversie , than in being able to handle as many as the most voluminous schoolmen have ever done : for however noble some may think , the science of controversie to be , i am not fond of the practice of it , especially being managed with so much heat and passion , such scorn and contempt of adversaries , so many reproaches and personal reflections , ( as they commonly are ) as if men forgot to be christians , when they began to be disputants . i do not think it such a mighty matter to throw dirt in a mans face , and then to laugh at him , or ( rather to take a metaphor now from dry weather ) to raise such a dust as may endanger the eye-sight of weaker persons . i think it no great skill to make things appear either ridiculous or dark , but to give them their due colours , and set them in the clearest light shewes far more art and ingenuity . and even that smartness of expression , without which controversie will hardly go down with many , seems but like the throwing vinegar upon hot coals , which gives a quick scent for the present , but vanishes immediately into smoke and air . in matters of truth and religion , reason and evidence ought to sway men , and not passion and noise ; and though men cannot command their judgements , they may and ought to do their expressions . and although this looks as like an apologie for a dull book as may be , yet i had much rather it should suffer for want of wit and smartness , than of good nature and christianity . my design is to represent the matters in difference between us truly , to report faithfully , and to argue closely ; and by these to shew , that no person can have any pretence of reason to leave our church , to embrace the communion of the church of rome ; because the danger is so much greater there in the nature of their worship and tendency of their doctrine ; and what they object most against us in point of fanaticism and divisions , will equally hold against them ; so that they have no advantages above us , but have many apparent dangers which we have not . among the chiefest dangers in the communion of that church , i have insisted on that of idolatry ; not to make the breach wider than some others have done , but to let persons first understand the greatness of the danger before they run into it . i wish i could acquit them from so heavy a charge , but i cannot force my judgement : and while i think them guilty , it would be unfaithfulness in me , not to warn those of it , whom it most concerns to understand it . and where other things are subtle and nice , tedious and obscure , this lyes plain to the conscience of every man ; if the church of rome be guilty of idolatry , our separation can be no schism either before god or man , because our communion would be a sin . and although it may be only an excess of charity in some few learned persons , to excuse that church from idolatry , ( although not all who live in the communion of it : ) yet upon the greatest search i can make , i think there is more of charity than judgement in so doing . for the proof of it , i must refer the reader to the following discourse , but that i may not be thought in so severe a censure , to contradict the sense of our church , ( which i have so great a regard to ) i shall here shew , that this charge of idolatry hath been managed against the church of rome , by the greatest and most learned defenders of it ever since the reformation . what greater discovery can be made of the sense of our church , than by the book of homilies not barely allowed , but subscribed to , as containing godly and wholsom doctrine , and necessary for these times ? and nothing can be more plainly delivered therein , than that the church of rome is condemned for idolatry . so the third part of the sermon against the peril of idolatry concludes , ye have heard it evidently proved in these homilies against idolatry by gods word , the doctors of the church , ecclesiastical histories , reason and experience , that images have been and be worshipped , and so idolatry committed to them to the great offence of gods majesty , and danger of infinite souls , &c. who the author of these homilies was , is not material to enquire , since their authority depends not on the writer , but the churches approbation of them ; but dr. jackson not only calls him the worthy and learned author of the homilies concerning the peril of idolatry , but saith , he takes him to be a reverend bishop of our church : and no wonder , since the most eminent bishops in that time of queen elizabeth , ( wherein these homilies were added to the former ) did all assert and maintain the same thing . as bishop jewell in his excellent defence of the apology of the church of england , and answer to harding , wherein he proves , that to give the honour of god to a creature , is manifest idolatry , as the papists do , saith he , in adoration of the host , and the worship of images : and his works ought to be looked on with a higher esteem than any other private person being commanded to be placed in churches to be read by the people . of all persons of that age none could be less suspected to be puritanically inclined , than archbishop whitgift ; yet in his learned defence of the church of england against t. c. he makes good the same charge in these words ; i do as much mislike the distinction of the papists , and the intent of it as any man doth , neither do i go about to excuse them from wicked , and without repentance and gods singular mercy , damnable idolatry . there are saith he , three kinds of idolatry , one is , when the true god is worshipped by other means and wayes , than he hath prescribed , or would be worshipped , i. e. against his express command , which is certainly his meaning : the other is , when the true god is worshipped with false gods : the third is , when we worship false gods either in heart , mind , or in external creatures living or dead , and altogether forget the worship of the true god. all these three kinds are detestable , but the first is the least and the last is the worst . the papists worship god otherwise than his will is , and otherwise than he hath prescribed , almost in all points of their worship , they also give to the creature , that which is due to the creator , and sin against the first table ; yet are they not for all that i can see or learn in the third kind of idolatry , and therefore if they repent unfeignedly , they are not to be cast either out of the church , or out of the ministry . the papists have little cause to thank me , or fee me , for any thing i have spoken in their behalf as yet , you see that i place them among wicked and damnable idolaters . thus far that wise and learned bishop . after him we may justly reckon bishop bilson , than whom none did more learnedly in that time defend the perpetual government of christs church by bishops , ( nor it may be since : ) who in a set discourse , at large proves the church of rome guilty of idolatry . . in the worship of images ; the having of which , he saith , was never catholick , and the worshipping of them was ever wicked by the judgement of christs church : and that , the worship even of the image of christs is heathenism & idolatry ; & to worship it makes it an idol , and burning incense to it is idolatry : which he there proves at large , and that the image of god made with hands , is a false god , and no likeness of his , but a leud imagination of theirs , set up to feed their eyes with the contempt of his sacred will , dishonour of his holy name , and open injury to his divine nature . . in the adoration of the host , of which he treats at large . after these it will be less needful to produce the testimonies of dr. fulk , dr. reynolds , dr. whitaker , who all asserted and proved the church of rome , guilty of idolatry : and i cannot find one person , who owned himself to be of the church of england in all queen elizabeths reign , who did make any doubt of it . let us now come to the reign of king james ; and here in the first place we ought to set down the judgement of that learned prince himself , who so throughly understood the matters in controversie between us and the church of rome , as appears by his premonition to all christian princes , wherein after speaking of other points , he comes to that of reliques of saints : but for the worshipping either of them or images , i must saith he , account it damnable idolatry , and after adds , that the scriptures are so directly , vehemently , and punctually against it , as i wonder what brain of man , or suggestion of satan durst offer it to christians : and all must be salved with nice and philosophical distinctions — let them therefore that maintain this doctrine , answer it to christ at the latter day , when he shall accuse them of idolatry : and then i doubt if he will be paid with such nice sophistical distinctions . and when isaac casaubon was employed by him to deliver his opinion to cardinal perron , mentioning the practices of the church of rome in invocation of saints , he saith , that the church of england did affirm , that those practices were joyned with great impiety . bishop andrews , whom no man suspects of want of learning , or not understanding the doctrine of our church , was also employed to answer cardinal bellarmin who had writ against the king : and doth he decline charging the church of rome with idolatry ? no , so far from it , that he not only in plain terms charges them with it , but saith , that bellarmin runs into heresie , nay , into madness to defend it : and in his answer to perron he saith , it is most evident , by their breviaries , hours , and rosaries , that they pray directly , absolutely and finally to saints ; and not meerly to the saints , to pray to god for them , but to give what they pray for themselves . in the same time of king james , bishop abbot writ his answer to bishop ; in which he saith , that the church of rome by the worship of images , hath matched all the idolatries of the heathens , and brought all their jugling devices into the church , abusing the ignorance and simplicity of the people as grosly and damnably as ever they did . towards the latter end of his reign came forth bishop whites reply to fisher , he calls the worshipping of images , a superstitious dotage , a palliate idolatry , a remainder of paganism , condemned by sacred scripture , censured by primitive fathers , and a seminary of direful contention and mischief in the church of christ. dr. field chargeth the invocation of saints with such superstition and idolatry as cannot be excused . we charge the adherents of the church of rome with gross idolatry , ( saith bishop usher in his sermon preached before the commons a. d. . ) because that contrary to gods express commandment they are sound to be worshippers of images . neither will it avail them here to say , that the idolatry forbidden in the scripture is that only which was used by the jews and pagans : for as well might one plead , that jewish or heathenish fornication was here only reprehended as jewish or heathenish idolatry . but as the one is a foul sin , whether it be committed by jew , pagan or christian : so if such as profess the name of christ shall practise that which the word of god condemneth in jews or pagans ; for idolatry , their profession is so far from diminishing , that it augmenteth rather the hainousness of the crime . about the same time came forth bishop downams book of antichrist , wherein he doth at large prove , that to give divine honour to a creature , is idolatry ; and that the papists do give it in the worship of saints , the host and images : which is likewise done nearer our own times by bishop davenant and dr. jackson . i shall conclude all , ( although i might produce more ) with the testimony of archbishop laud , who in his conference , saith the ancient church knew not the adoration of images ; and the modern church of rome is too like to paganism in the practice of it , and driven to scarce intelligible subtleties in her servants writings that defend it ; & this without any care had of millions of souls , unable to understand her subtleties or shun her practice : and in his marginal notes upon bellarmin ( written with his own hand , now in my possession ) where bellarmin answers the testimony of the council of laodicea against the worship of angels , by saying , that it doth not condemn all worship of images , but only that which is proper to god ; he replyes , that theodoret who produced that testimony of the council , expresly mentions the praying to angels ; therefore , saith he , the praying to them was that idolatry which the council condemns . by this we see , that the most eminent and learned defenders of our church , of greatest authority in it , and zeal for the cause of it against enemies of all sorts , have agreed in the charge of idolatry against the church of rome . and i cannot see why the authority of some very few persons , though of great learning should bear sway against the constant opinion of our church ever since the reformation . since our church is not now to be formed according to the singular fancies of some few ( though learned men ; ) much less to be modelled by the caprichio's of superstitious fanaticks , who prefer some odd opinions and wayes of their own , before the received doctrine and practice of the church they live in . such as these we rather pity their weakness , than regard their censures , and are only sorry when our adversaries make such properties of them , as by their means to beget in some a disaffection to our church . which i am so far from , ( whatever malice and peevishness may suggest to the contrary ) that upon the greatest enquiry i can make , i esteem it the best church of the christian world ; and think my time very well imployed ( what ever thanks i meet with for it ) in defending its cause , and preserving persons in the communion of it . the contents . chap. i. of the idolatry practised in the church of rome , in the worship of images . the introduction , concerning the occasion of the debate . the church of rome makes its members guilty of hypocrisie or idolatry : first , of the worship of god by images : some propositions for clearing the notion of divine worship . it is in gods power to determine the way of his worship , which being determined , gods law , and not our intention , is to be the rule of worship . the main question is , whether god hath forbidden the worshipping of himself by an image , under the notion of idolatry ? of the meaning of the second commandment , from the terms therein used , the large sense and importance of them , which cannot be understood only of heathen idols . of the reason of that law , from gods infinite and invisible nature : how far that hath been acknowledged by heathens ? the law against image worship no ceremonial law respecting meerly the iews ; the reason against it made more clear by the gospel : the wiser heathen did not worship their images as gods , yet their worship condemned as idolatry . the christian church believed the reason of this law to be immutable ; of the doctrine of the second council of nice ; the opposition to it in greece , germany , france and england . of the scripture instances of idolatry contrary to the second commandment , in the golden calf , and the calves of dan and bethel . of the distinctions used to excuse image-worship from being idolatry : the vanity and folly of them . the instances supposed to be parallell answered . p. chap. ii. of their idolatry in adoration of the host and invocation of saints . the argument proposed concerning the adoration of the host ; the insufficiency of the answer to it manifested : supposing equal revelation for transubstantiation as for christs divinity , yet not the same reason for worshipping the host as the person of christ ; the great disparity between these two at large discovered ; the controversie truly stated concerning adoration of the host : and it is proved , that no man on the principles of the roman church can be secure he doth not commit idolatry in it . the confession of our adversaries , that the same principles will justifie the worship of any creature . no such motives to believe transubstantiation as the divinity of christ. bishop taylor 's testimony answered by himself . to worship christ in the sun as lawful as to worship him in the host. the grossest idolatry excusable on the same grounds . the argument proposed and vindicated concerning the invocation of saints practised in the church of rome . the fathers arguments against the heathens hold against invocation of saints ; the state of the controversie about idolatry as managed by them . they make it wholly unlawful to give divine worship to any creature how excellent soever . the worship not only of heathen gods , but of angels condemned . the common evasions answered . prayer more proper to god than sacrifice . no such disparity as is pretended between the manner of invocating saints and the heathens invocating their deities . in the church of rome , they do more than pray to saints to pray for them , proved from the present most authentick breviaries . supposing that were all , it would not excuse them . st. austin no friend to invocation of saints . practices condemned by the church pleaded for it . of negative points being articles of faith . p. . chap. iii. of the hindrance of a good life and devotion in the roman church . the doctrines of the roman church prejudicial to piety . the sacrament of pennance , as taught among them , destroyes the necessity of a good life . the doctrine of purgatory takes away the care of it , as appears by the true stating it , and comparing that doctrine with protestants . how easie it is , according to them , for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven . purgatory dreadful to none but poor and friendless . sincerity of devotion hindred by prayers in an unknown tongue . the great absurdity of it manifested . the effects of our ancestors devotion had been as great , if they had said their prayers in english. the language of prayer proved to be no indifferent thing , from st. pauls arguments . no universal consent for prayers in an unknown tongue , by the confession of their own writers . of their doctrine of the efficacy of sacraments , that it takes away all necessity of devotion in the minds of the receivers . this complained of by cassander and arnaud , but proved against them to be the doctrine of the roman church , by the canons of the council of trent . the great easiness of getting grace by their sacraments . of their discouraging the reading the scriptures . a standing rule of devotion necessary . none so fit to give it , as god himself : this done by him in the scriptures . all persons therefore concerned to read them . the arguments against reading the scriptures , would have held against the publishing them in a language known to the pe●ple . the dangers as great then , as ever have been since . the greatest prudence of the roman church is wholly to forbid the scriptures ; being acknowledged by their wisest men , to be so contrary to their interest . the confession of the cardinals at bononia to that purpose . the avowed practice of the roman church herein directly contrary to that of the primitive : although the reasons were as great then from the danger of heresies . this confessed by their own writers . p. chap. iv. of the fanaticism of the roman church . the unreasonableness of objecting sects and fanaticisms to us as the effects of reading the scriptures . fanaticism countenanced in the roman church , but condemned by ours . private revelations made among them the grounds of believing some points of doctrine , proved from their own authors . of the revelations pleaded for the immaculate conception . the revelations of s. brigitt and s. catharin directly contrary in this point , yet both owned in the church of rome . the large approbations of s. brigitts by popes and councils ; and both their revelations acknowledged to be divine in the lessons read upon their dayes . s. catharines wonderful faculty of smelling souls , a gift peculiar to her and philip nerius . the vain attempts of reconciling those revelations . the great number of female revelations approved in the roman church . purgatory , transubstantiation , auricular confession proved by visions and revelations . festivals appointed upon the credit of revelations : the feast of corpus christi on the revelation made to juliana , the story of it related from their own writers : no such things can be objected to our church . revelations still owned by them ; proved from the fanatick revelations of mother juliana very lately published by mr. cressy : some instances of the blasphemous nonsense contained in them . the monastick orders founded in enthusiasm . an account of the great fanaticism of s. benedict , and s. romoaldus : their hatred of humane learning , and strange visions and revelations . the carthusian order founded upon a vision . the carmalites vision of their habit . the franciscan and dominican orders founded on fanaticism , and seen in a vision of innocent the third to be the great supporters of the roman church . the quakerism of s. francis described from their best authors . his ignorance , extasies and fanatick preaching . the vision of dominicus . the blasphemous enthusiasm of the mendicant fryers . the history of it related at large . of the evangelium aeternum , and the blasphemies contained in it . the author of it supposed to be the general of the franciscan order , however owned by the fryers , and read and preached at paris . the opposition to it by the vniversity : but favoured by the popes . gul. s. amour writing against it , his book publickly burnt , by order of the court of rome . the popes horrible partiality to the fryers . the fanaticism of the franciscans afterwards of the followers of petrus johannis de oliva . the spiritual state began ( say they ) from s. francis. the story of his wounds , and maria visitationis paralleld . the canting language used by the spiritual brethren , called beguini , fraticelli , and bigardi . of their doctrines about poverty , swearing , perfection , the carnal church and inspiration : by all which , they appear to be a sect of quakers after the order of s. francis. of the schism made by them . the large spreading and long continuance of them . of the apostolici and dulcinistae . of their numerous conventicles . their high opinion of themselves . their zeal against the clergy and tythes ; their doctrine of christian liberty . of the alumbrado's in spain : their disobedience to bishops , obstinate adhering to their own fancies , calling them inspirations , their being above ordinances . ignatius loyola suspected to be one of the illuminati , proved from melchior canus . the iesuites order founded in fanaticism ; a particular account of the romantick enthusiasm of ignatius , from the writers of his own order . whereby it is proved , that he was the greatest pretender to enthusiasm , since the dayes of mahomet and s. francis. ignatius gave no respect to men by words or putting off his hat , his great ignorance and preaching in the streets : his glorying in his sufferings for it ; his pretence to mortification : the wayes he used to get disciples . their way of resolution of difficulties by seeking god ; their itinerant preaching in the cities of italy . the sect of quakers a new order of disciples of ignatius , only wanting confirmation from the pope , which ignatius obtained . of the fanatick way of devotion in the roman church . of superstitious and enthusiastical fanaticism among them . of their mystical divinity . mr. cressy's canting in his preface to sancta sophia . of the deiform fund of the soul ; a superessential life , and the way to it . of contemplating with the will. of passive vnions . the method of self-annihilation . of the vnion of nothing with nothing . of the feeling of not-being . the mischief of an unintelligible way of devotion . the utmost effect of this way is gross enthusiasm . mr. cressy's vindication of it examined . the last sort of fanaticism among them , resisting authority under pretence of religion . their principles and practices compared with the fanaticks . how far they are disowned at present by them . of the vindication of the irish remonstrance . the court of rome hath alwayes favoured that party , which is most destructive to civil government , proved by particular and late instances . p. chap. v. of the divisions of the roman church . the great pretence of vnity in the church of rome considered . the popes authority the fountain of that vnity ; what that authority is which is challenged by the popes over the christian world ; the disturbances which have happened therein on the account of it . the first revolt of rome from the empire caused by the popes , baronius his arguments answered . rebellion the foundation of the greatness of that church . the cause of the strict league between the popes and the posterity of charles martel . the disturbances made by popes in the new empire : of the quarrels of greg. . with the empeperour and other christian princes , upon the pretence of the popes authority . more disturbances on that account in christendome , than any other matter of religion . of the schisms which have happened in the roman church : particularly those after the time of formosus , wherein his ordinations were nulled by his successors , the popes opposition to each other in that age : the miserable state of that church then described . of the schisms of latter times , by the italick and gallick factions , the long continuance of them . the mischief of those schisms on their own principles . of the divisions in that church about the matters of order and government . the differences between the bishops and the monastick orders about exemptions and priviledges ; the history of that controversie , and the bad success the popes had in attempting to compose it . of the quarrel between the regulars and seculars in england . the continuance of that controversie here and in france . the jesuits enmity to the episcopal order and jurisdiction : the hard case of the bishop of angelopolis in america . the popes still favour the regulars , as much as they dare . the jesuits way of converting the chinese discovered by that bishop . of the differences in matters of doctrine in that church . they have no better way to compose them than we . the popes authority never truly ended one controversie among them . their wayes to evade the decisions of popes and councils . their dissensions are about matters of faith . the wayes taken to excuse their own difference will make none between them and us , manifested by sancta clara's exposition o● the . articles . their disputes not confined to their schools , proved , by a particular instance about the immaculate conception ; the infinite scandals , confessed by thei● own authors , to have been in their church about it . from all which it appears that the church of rome can have no advantage in point of vnity above ours . p. chap. vi. an answer to the remainder of the reply . the mis-interpreting scripture doth not hinder its being a rule of faith . of the superstitious observations of the roman church . of indulgences ; the practice of them in what time begun , on what occasion , and in what terms granted . of the indulgences in iubilees , in the churches at rome , and upon saying some prayers . instances of them produced . what opinion hath been had of indulgences in the church of rome : some confess they have no foundation in scripture , or antiquity , others that they are pious frauds : the miserable shifts the defenders of indulgences were put to : plain evidences of their fraud from the disputes of the schools about them . the treasure of the church invented by aquinas and on what occasion . the wickedness of men increased by indulgences acknowledged by their own writers : and therefore condemned by many of that church . of bellarmins prudent christians opinion of them . indulgences no meer relaxations of canonical penance . the great absurdity of the doctrine of the churches treasure on which indulgences are founded , at large manifested . the tendency of them to destroy devotion proved by experience , and the nature of the doctrine . of communion in one kind ; no devotion in opposing an institution of christ. of the popes power of dispensing contrary to the law of god in oaths and marriages . the ill consequence of asserting marriage in a priest to be worse than fornication , as it is in the church of rome . of the uncertainty of faith therein . how far revelation to be believed against sense . the arguments to prove the uncertainty of their faith defended . the case of a revolter and a bred papist compared as to salvation : and the greater danger of one than the other proved . the motives of the roman church considered ; those laid down by bishop taylor fully answered by himself . an account of the faith of protestants laid down in the way of principles : wherein the grounds and nature of our certainty of faith are cleared . and from the whole concluded , that there can be no reasonable cause to forsake the communion of the church of england and to embrace that of the church of rome . p. errata . pag. . l. . for adjuverit , r. adjuvet : p. ibid. marg. r. l. . de baptis . p. . marg. r. tract . . in ioh. p. . l. . dele only : p. . marg. r. trigaut . p. . l. . for i am , r. am i : p. . l. . for is , r. in : p. . marg. for . r. . . p. . l. . after did , put not : ch. . for pennance , r. penance : p. . l. . for him , r. them : p. . l. . for or , r. and : l. . for never , r. ever : p. . l. . for their , r. the : p. . l. . for these , r. their : p. . marg. for nibaldi , r. sinibaldi : p. . l. . before another , insert one : p. . l. . after not , insert at : p. . marg. for act , r. art . p. . l. . after for , insert one . two questions proposed by one of the church of rome . whether a protestant haveing the same motives to become a catholick , which one bred and born , and well grounded in the catholick religion , hath to remain in it , may not equally be saved in the profession of it ? . whether it be sufficient to be a christian in the abstract , or in the whole latitude , or there be a necessity of being a member of some distinct church , or congregation of christians ? answer . the first question being supposed to be put concerning a protestant yet continuing so , doth imply a contradiction , viz. that a protestant continuing so , should have the same motives to become a catholick ( takeing that term here , only as signifying , one of the communion of the church of rome ) which those have , who have been born or bred in that communion . but supposing the meaning of the question to be this , whether a protestant leaving the communion of our church , upon the motives used by those of the roman church , may not be equally saved with those who are bred in it ? i answer , . that an equal capacity of salvation of those persons being supposed , can be no argument to leave the communion of a church wherein salvation of a person may be much more safe , than of either of them . no more , than it is , for a man to leap from the plain ground into a ship , that is in danger of being wrackt , because he may equally hope to be saved with those who are in it . nay , supposing an equal capacity of salvation in two several churches , there can be no reason to forsake the communion of the one for the other . so that to perswade any one to leave our church to embrace that of rome , it is by no means sufficient to ask whether such a one may not as well be saved as they that are in it already : but it is necessary , that they prove , that it is of necessity to salvation to leave our church , and become a member of theirs : and when they do this , i intend to be one of their number . . we assert , that all those who are in the communion of the church of rome do run so great a hazard of their salvation , that none who have a care of their souls , ought to embrace it , or continue in it . and that upon these grounds . . because they must by the terms of communion with that church , be guilty either of hypocrisie or idolatry , either of which are sins inconsistent with salvation ; which i thus prove . that church which requires the giving the creature the worship due only to the creator , makes the members of it guilty of hypocrisie or idolatry ; for it they do it , they are guilty of the latter , if they do it not , of the former ; but the church of rome in the worship of god by images , the adoration of the bread in the eucharist , and the formal invocation of saints , doth require the giving to the creature the worship due only to the creator ; therefore it makes the members of it guilty of hypocrisie or idolatry . that the church of rome in these particulars doth require the giving the creature the honour due only to god ; i prove thus concerning each of them . . where the worship of god is terminated upon a creature there , by their own confession , the worship due only to god is given to the creature ; but in the worship of god by images , the worship due to god is terminated wholly on the creature ; which is thus proved ; the worship which god himself denyes to receive , must be terminated on the creature : but god himself in the second commandment not only denyes to receive it , but threatens severely to punish them that give it . therefore it cannot be terminated on god , but only on the image . . the same argument which would make the grossest heathen idolatry lawful , cannot excuse any act from idolatry , but the same argument , whereby the papists make the worship of the bread in the eucharist not to be idolatry , would make the grossest heathen idolatry not to be so . for if it be not therefore idolatry ; because they suppose the bread to be god , then the worship of the sun was not idolatry by them who supposed the sun to be god ; and upon this ground , the grosser the idolatry was , the less it was idolatry : for the grossest idolaters were those , who supposed their statues to be gods. and upon this ground their worship was more lawful , than of those who supposed them not to be so . . if the supposition of a middle excellency between god and us , be a sufficient ground for formal invocation , then the heathen worship of their inferiour deities could be no idolatry : for the heathens still pretended , that they did not give to them the worship proper to the supream god ; which is as much as is pretended by the devoutest papist , in justification of the invocation of saints . to these i expect a direct and punctual answer , professing as much charity towards them , as is consistent with scripture and reason . . because the church of rome is guilty of so great corruption of the christian religion by such opinions and practices which are very apt to hinder a good life : such are , the destroying the necessity of a good life , by making the sacrament of penance joyned with contrition , sufficient for salvation ; the taking off the care of it , by supposing an expiation of sin ( by the prayers of the living ) after death ; and the sincerity of devotion is much obstructed in it , by prayers in a language which many understand not , by making the efficacy of sacraments depend upon the bare administration , whether our minds be prepared for them or not ; by discouraging the reading the scripture , which is our most certain rule of faith and life , by the multitude of superstitious observations never used in the primitive church , as we are ready to defend ; by the gross abuse of people in pardons and indulgences , by denying the cup to the laity , contrary to the practice of the church in the solemn celebration of the eucharist for a thousand years after christ ; by making it in the power of any person to dispense contrary to the law of god , in oathes and marriages ; by making disobedience to the church in disputable matters , more hainous , than disobedience to the laws of christ in unquestionable things , as marriage in a priest , to be a greater crime , than fornication . by all which practices and opinions we assert , that there are so many hinderances to a good life , that none who have a care of their salvation , can venture their souls , in the communion of such a church , which either enjoyns or publickly allows them . . because it exposeth the faith of christians to so great uncertainty : by making the authority of the scriptures to depend on the infallibility of the church , when the churches infallibility must be proved by the scripture : by making those things necessary to be believed , which if they be believed overthrow all foundations of faith , viz. that we are not to believe our senses in the plainest objects of them , as that bread which we see is not bread ; upon which it follows , that tradition being a continued kind of sensation , can be no more certain , than sense it self ; and that the apostles might have been deceived in the body of christ after the resurrection ; and the church of any age in what they saw or heard . by denying to men the use of their judgement and reason as to the matters of faith proposed by a church , when they must use it in the choice of a church ; by making the churches power extend to make new articles of faith , viz. by making those things necessary to be believed , which were not so before . by pretending to infallibility in determining controversies , and yet not determining controversies which are on foot among themselves . all which , and several other things which my designed brevity will not permit me to mention ; tend very much to shake the faith of such , who have nothing else to rely on , but the authority of the church of rome . . i answer , that a protestant leaving the communion of our church , doth incurr a greater guilt , than one who was bred up in the communion of the church of rome , and continues therein by invincible ignorance , and therefore cannot equally be saved with such a one . for a protestant is supposed , to have sufficient convictions of the errors of the roman church , or is guilty of wilful ignorance , if he hath not ; but although we know not what allowances god will make for invincible ignorance , we are sure that wilful ignorance , or choosing a worse church before a better , is a damnable sin , and unrepented of destroyes salvation . to the second question i answer , . i do not understand what is meant by a christian in the abstract , or in the whole latitude , it being a thing i never heard or read of before ; and therefore may have some meaning in it , which i cannot understand . . but if the question be as the last words imply it , whether a christian by vertue of his being so , be bound to joyn in some church or congregation of christians ? i answer affirmatively , and that he is bound to choose the communion of the purest church , and not to leave that for a corrupt one , though called never so catholick . the proposer of the questions reply to the answer . madam , i did not expect that two bare questions could have produced such a super-foetation of controversies , as the paper you sent me is fraught with ; but since the answerer hath been pleased to take this method , ( for what end himself best knows ) i shall not refuse to give a fair and plain return , to the several points he insists upon , and that with as much brevity as the matter and circumstances will bear . the questions proposed were : . whether a protestant having the same motives to become a catholick , which one bred and born , and well grounded in catholick religion hath to remain in it , may not equally be saved in the profession of it ? the . whether it be sufficient to be a christian in the abstract , or in the whole latitude ; or there be a necessity of being a member of some distinct church or congregation of christians ? the first he saith , being supposed to be put concerning a protestant continuing so , implyes a contradiction ; but where it lyes i cannot see , for a protestant may have the same motives , and yet out of wilfulness or passion not acquiesce to them . he saw no doubt this supposition to be impertinent to the question , and therefore in the second part of the . § . states it thus : whether a protestant leaving the communion of the protestant church , upon the motives used by those of the roman church , may not be equally saved with those who were bred in it . the question thus stated in its true supposition , he answers first , § . . that an equal capacity of salvation of those persons being supposed , can be no argument to leave the communion of a church , wherein the salvation of a person may be much more safe than either of them . but before i reply , i must do both him and my self right in matter of fact ; and it is , madam , that when you first addressed to me , you professed your self much troubled , that he had told you , a person leaving the protestant communion , and embracing the catholick , could not be saved . that we should deny salvation to any out of the catholick church , you lookt upon as uncharitable , and this assertion of his had startled you in the opinion you had before of the protestant charity . whereupon you desired to know my opinion in the case , and i told you i saw no reason , why the same motives which secured one born and bred , and well grounded in catholick religion , to continue in it , were not sufficient also to secure a protestant , who convinced by them , should embrace it . this madam , your self can witness , was the true occasion of your proposing the question , and not as the answerer supposes , that i used the meer question it self as a sufficient argument to perswade you to embrace the catholick communion . this premised , i reply , that the answer he gives , is altogether forrain to the matter in hand , the controversie not being between a bred and a converted catholick on the one side , and a person supposed to be in a safer church than either of them on the other : nor yet between two several churches supposed to have in them an equal capacity of salvation , but between a person bred in the catholick religion on the one side , and another converted to it from protestantism on the other , whether the latter may not be equally saved with the former ? nor is it to the purpose of the present question , to prove that it is of necessity to salvation to leave the protestant church , and become a member of the catholick , because the question is only of the possibility , not of the necessity of salvation . i say it is not necessary to the present question to prove this , but rather belongs to the second , where i shall speak to it . whether there be a necessity of being a member of some distinct church ? which being resolved affirmatively by both parts , it follows then in order to enquire which this true church is . as for the example of a man leaping from the plain , ground into a ship that is in danger of being wrackt , meaning by that ship ( as i suppose he does ) the catholick church . some will be apt to think he had come nearer the mark if he had compared the protestant to a ship , which by often knocking against the rock on which the catholick church is built , had split it self into innumerable sects , and was now in danger of sinking : his comparison was grounded only on his own supposition , but this is grounded on the truth it self of too sad an experience . but to leave words , and come to the matter . his second answer is , § . . that all those who are in the communion of the church of rome do run so great a hazard of their salvation , that none who have a care of their souls ought to embrace or continue in it . the first answer as i have shewed , was nothing pertinent to the present question , nor comes this second any nearer the matter , for though it be supposed , that none ought to embrace or continue in the catholick church by reason of the great hazard , he saith , they run of their salvation , yet if they do embrace or continue in it , why may they not be equally saved , that is , with equal capacity ; but this assertion , however beside the question , he makes it his main business to prove , first , § . . because those who embrace or continue in the catholick church are guilty either of hypocrisie or idolatry , either of which are sins inconsistent with salvation . and here he must give me leave to return upon him a more palpable contradiction , than that he supposed to have found in the question , viz. to assert only , that those of the catholick communion run a great hazard of their salvation , and yet affirm at the same time that they are guilty either of hypocrisie or idolatry , sins inconsistent with salvation : which reduced into plain terms , is no other but that they may be saved , though hardly , and yet cannot be saved . but to the argument , the church of rome , by the worship of god by images , by the adoration of bread in the eucharist , and the formal invocation of saints , doth require the giving to the creature the worship due only to the creator ; therefore it makes the members of it guilty of hypocrisie or idolatry . the charge is great , but what are the proofs ? concerning the first he saith , § . . that in the worship of god by images , the worship due to god is terminated wholly on the creature . and surely this implies another contradiction , that it should be the worship of god by images , and yet be terminated wholly on the creature ; nevertheless he proves it thus ; the worship which god himself denyes to receive , must be terminated upon the creature ; but god himself in the second commandment , not only denyes to receive it , but threatens severely to punish them that give it , that is , that worship him by an image . therefore it cannot be terminated on god , but only on the image . to this argument , which to be just to the author , i confess i have not seen any where proposed in these terms , i answer , the first proposition is built on a great mistake of the nature of humane acts , which though they ought to be governed by the law of god , yet when they swerve from it , cease not to tend to their own proper objects . gods prohibition of such or such a kind of worship , may make it to be unlawful , but hinders not the act from tending , whither it is intended ; and consequently if it be intended or directed by the understanding to god , though after an unlawful manner , it will not fail to be terminated upon god : thus when a thief or a murderer prayes to god to give him good success in the theft or murder he intends , though god denyes to hear any such prayer , yet is the prayer truly directed to him : and thus when the iews offered to god in sacrifice the blind and the lame , though he had forbidden it , yet was the oblation terminated on him , and therefore he reproves them for having polluted him , mal. . . and to convince them the more of their evil doings : offer it now , sayes he , to thy governour , will he be pleased with thee , or accept thy person ? though the governour deny to accept what is presented to him , yet it is truly offered to him by the presenter ; and so , although god deny to accept such or such sacrifice , yet it is truly offered to him , though the offering of it after a forbidden manner make it to be sin : did not god refuse to accept the sacrifice of cain , and yet the scripture , gen. . . sayes expresly , that he brought an offering to the lord ? god had not respect to cain nor his offering , but this did not hinder , but that cains offering had respect to god , and was terminated on him . in like manner , though god deny such or such a kind of worship ; if it be offered though unlawfully by the creature , yet is it terminated on him . the proposition therefore which asserts , that the worship which god denyes must be terminated on the creature , i deny as absolutely false , and so will you too , madam , when you shall see the sense of it to be no other , but that a wicked man cannot pray to god , or worship him in an unlawful or forbidden manner , who is therefore a wicked man because he does so . what follows from hence is , that though god should have forbidden men to worship him by images , yet it does not follow but the worship so given , would be terminated on him . but now to speak to his second proposition in which the main force of this argument consists . we utterly deny that god in the second commandment , forbids himself to be worshipped by a crucifix , for example , or such like sacred image ; for such only are the subject of the present controversie . what he forbids there , is to give his worship to idols : and this is clear from the circumstances of the text : first , because this commandment , if st. austins iudgement be to be followed , is but a part or explication of the first , thou shalt have no other gods before me : secondly , because the hebrew word pesel , in latine sculptile , is used in scripture to signifie an idol : let them be confounded who adore sculptilia , that is , idols , saith the psalmist , and so the septuagint translate it in this very place 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an idol , thou shalt not make to thy self an idol ; so that it was an artifice of the protestants to make their assertion seem plausible , to translate image instead of idol ; and not a certain kind of image neither , but any whatsoever . thou shalt not make to thy self any graven image . now what is all this to catholicks , who neither make to themselves , nor adore idols , nor yield soveraign honour or acknowledgement of deity to any but god ? we give indeed a veneration to images , but the image of god is not another god besides him , nor is the worship of it the worship of another god , but of him who is represented by it : for st. basil saith , the worship of an image stayes not there , but is referred or carried to the prototype , or thing represented . we give therefore an inferior , or relative honour only to the sacred images of christ , and his blessed mother , and saints , not latriam , the worship due to god , but honorariam adorationem , a certain honorary worship , expressed by kissing them , or putting off our hats , or kneeling before them , much like the worship given to the chair of state , or the kings picture , or his garment by the like actions ; or to come nearer to the subject , such as was commanded to be given by moses and joshua to the ground whereon they stood , by putting off their shoos , because it was holy ; and by the iews , in adoring the footstool of god , or falling down before it , psal. . . and in worshipping ( as st. jerome testifies they did ) that part of the temple called the holy of holies , because there were the cherubims ( sacred images ordered by god himself to be placed there ) the propitiatory ( representing gods throne ) and the ark , ( his footstool ) in a word , such as the protestants themselves give to the name of iesus when they hear it spoken , by putting off their hats , and bowing at it , or to the elements of bread and wine in the supper , by kneeling before them , as figures representing the death of christ. if condescendence to the conscience of weaker brethren , will permit to own they have any honour or veneration for them , or for the altar before which they how . to conclude this point , the objector brings a text , which forbids us to give the soveraign honour due to god , to an idol : but let us hear out of scripture an express text that it is not lawful to give to holy images , and other things relating to god , an inferiour or relative worship , such as we have declared , and that will be to the purpose . § . he aims to conclude the catholick church guilty of idolatry , from the adoration of the bread ( as he believes it ) in the eucharist . now to do this , he ought to prove , that what we adore in the eucharist , is bread indeed . but instead of that , he brings a comparison between our adoration of christ in the eucharist , and the heathens adoration of the sun : viz. that the papists by the same argument , make the worship of the bread in the eucharist not to be idolatry , which would excuse the heathens worship of the sun and of their statues from idolatry ; for if it be not therefore idolatry , sayes he , because they suppose the bread to be god , then the worship of the sun was not idolatry in them , who supposed the sun to be god. i shall not complain here of the unhandsomness of the expression , that catholicks suppose the bread to be god , just as the heathens supposed the sun to be god : whereas he knows , that catholicks believe , that the substance of the bread is changed into christs body ; but shall answer to the argument , that the worship of christ in the eucharist , is not idolatry , because we only suppose him to be really present under the form of bread , but because we know and believe this upon the same grounds and motives upon which we believe ( and those motives stronger than any protestant hath ( if he have no other than the catholick to believe ) that christ is god , and consequently to be adored . and therefore that you may the better see the inefficaciousness of the argument , suppose it dropt from the pen of an arrian against the adoration of christ as god , and it will be of as much force to evince that to be idolatry , as it is from the objection to prove the adoration of him in the eucharist to be so , see there how an arrian might argue in the same form . the same argument which would make the grossest heathen idolatry lawful , cannot excuse any act from idolatry : but the same argument , whereby the protestants make the worship of christ ( a pure man , sayes the arrian ) not to be idolatry : would make the grossest heathen idolatry not to be so : for if it be not therefore idolatry , because they suppose christ to be god , then the worship of the sun was not idolatry , by them who supposed the sun to be god , &c. now the same answer which solves the arrians argument against the adoration of christ as god , serves no less to solve the objectors argument against the adoration of him in the eucharist , since we have a like divine revelation for his real presence under the sacramental signs , as we have for his being true god and man. but what if catholicks should be mistaken in their belief ? would it then follow , that they were idolaters ? dr. taylor an eminent and leading man amongst the protestants , denyes the consequence . his words are these , in the liberty of prophecying , sect. . numb . . idolatry , sayes he , is a forsaking the true god , and giving divine worship to a creature , or to an idol , that is , to an imaginary god , who hath no foundation in essence or existence : and this is that kind of superstition , which by divines is called the superstition of an undue object : now it is evident , that the object of their ( that is , the catholicks ) adoration ( that which is represented to them in their minds , their thoughts and purposes , and by which god principally , if not solely , takes estimate of humane actions ) in the blessed sacrament , is the only true and eternal god , hypostatically joyned with his holy humanity , which humanity they believe actually present under the veil of the sacramental signs ; and if they thought him not present , they are so far from worshipping the bread in this case , that themselves profess it idolatry to do so ; which is a demonstration ( mark that ) that their soul hath nothing in it , that is idolatrical . if their confidence and fanciful opinion ( so he terms the faith of catholicks ) hath engaged them upon so great a mistake ( as without doubt , he sayes it hath ) yet the will hath nothing in it , but what is a great enemy to idolatry . et nihil ardet in inferno nisi propria voluntas ; that is , nothing burns in hell , but proper will. thus dr. taylor ; and i think it will be a task worthy the objectors pains , to solve his argument , if he will not absolve us from being idolaters . § . . he proceeds to prove , that catholicks are guilty of idolatry , by their invocation of saints . : and his argument is this ; if the supposition of a middle excellency between god and us , be a sufficient ground for formal invocation , then the heathens worship of their inferiour deities , could be no idolatry , for the heathens still pretended , that they did not give to them the worship proper to the supream god , which is as much as is pretended by the devoutest papists in justification of the invocation of saints . to answer this argument , i shall need little more than to explicate the hard words in it ; which thus i do . by persons of a middle excellency , we understand persons endowed with supernatural gifts of grace in this life , and glory in heaven , whose prayers by consequence are acceptable and available with god , what he means by formal invocation , i understand not well : but what we understand by it , is desiring or praying those just persons to pray for us . the supream deity of the heathens is known to be jupiter , and their inferiour deities , venus , mars , bacchus , vulcan , and the like rabble of devils , as the scripture calls them , the gods of the heathens are devils . the terms thus explicated , 't is easie to see the inconsequence of the argument , that because the heathens were idolaters in worshipping mars and venus their inferiour deities , or rather devils , though they pretended not to give them the worship proper to jupiter their supream god : therefore the catholicks , must be guilty of idolatry , in desiring the servants of the true god , to pray for them to him ; upon this account we must not desire the prayer of a just man , even in this life , because this formal invocation will be to make him an inferiour deity . but if some sect of heathens , as the platonists , did attain to the knowledge of the true god , yet st. paul says , they did not glorifie him as god ; but changed his glory into an image made like to corruptible man , adoring and offering sacrifice due to god alone , to the statues themselves , or the inferiour deities they supposed to dwell or assist in them . which inferiour deities st. austin upon the ninety sixth psalm , proves to be devils or evil angels , because they required sacrifice to be offered to them , and would be worshipped as gods. now what comparison there is between this worship of the heathens inferiour deities , and christians worship of saints and angels , let the same st. austin declare in his twentieth book against faustus the manichaean , chap. . faustus there calumniates the catholicks ( the word is st. austins ) because they honoured the memories or shrines of martyrs , charging them to have turned the idols into martyrs , whom they worship ( said he ) with like vows . the objection you see is not new , that catholicks make inferiour deities of their saints . faustus long ago made it , and st. austins answer will serve as well now as then . christian people , sayes he , do with religious solemnity celebrate the memory of martyrs , both to excite to the imitation of them , and to become partakers of their merits , and be holpen by their prayers , but to that we erect altars , not to any of the martyrs , but to the god of martyrs , although in memory of the said martyrs ; for what bishop officiating at the altar , in the places where their holy bodies are deposited ; does say at any time we offer to thee peter , or paul , or cyprian ? but what is offered to god , who crown'd the martyrs , at the memories or shrines of those whom he crowned , that being put in mind by the very places , a greater affection may be raised in us to quicken our love , both to those whom we may imitate , and towards him by whose assistance we can do it . we worship therefore the martyrs with that worship of love and society , with which even in this life also holy men of god are worshipped , whose heart we judge prepared to suffer the like martyrdom for the truth of the gospel . but we worship them so much the more devoutly , because more securely , after they have overcome all the incertainties of this world ; as also we praise them more confidently now reigning conquerors , in a more happy life , than whilst they were sighting in this ; but with that worship , which in greek is called latria , ( and cannot be expressed by one word in latin ) for as much as it is a certain service properly due to the divinity , we neither worship them , nor teach them to be worshipped , but god alone . now whereas the offering of sacrifice belongs to this worship ( of latria ) from whence they are called idolaters , who gave it also to idols , by no means do we suffer any such thing , or command it to be offered , to any martyr , or any holy soul , or any angel : and whosoever declines into this error , we reprove him by sound doctrine , either that he may be corrected , or avoided . — and a little after . it is a much less sin , for a man to be derided by the martyrs for drunkenness , then ever fasting to offer sacrifice to them . i say to sacrifice to martyrs , i say not to sacrifice to god in the memories ( or churches ) of the martyrs , which we do most frequently , by that rite alone , by which in the manifestation of the new testament he hath commanded sacrifice to be offered to him , which belongs to that worship , which is called latria , and is due only to god. this was the doctrine and practice of christian people in st. augustines time , and that he himself held formal invocations a part of the worship due to saints , is evident from the prayer he made to st. cyprian after his martyrdom . adjuveritque nos beatus cyprianus orationibus suis , &c. let blessed cyprian therefore help us ( who are still encompassed with this mortal flesh , and labour ▪ as in a dark cloud ) with his prayer , that by gods grace we may , as far as we are able , imitate his good works . thus st. austin , where you see he directs his prayer to st. cyprian , which i take to be formal invocation ; and for a further confirmation of it , we have the ingenuous confession of calvin himself , instit. li. . ch . . n. . where speaking of the third council of carthage , in which st. austin was present , he acknowledged it was the custom at that time to say , sancta maria , aut sancte petre ora pro nobis ; holy mary , or holy peter pray for us . but now madam , what if after all this , he himself shall deny , that any of the opposite tenets are articles of his faith , viz. that honour is not to be given to the images of christ and his saints , that what appears to be bread in the eucharist , is not the body of christ : that it is not lawful to invocate the saints to pray for us . press him close , and i believe you shall find him deny , that he believes any one of these negative points to be divine truths ; and if so , you will easily see his charge of idolatry against us , to be vain and groundless . having thus given a direct and punctual answer to his argument , i must now expect as much charity from him , as is consistent with scripture and reason . how much that is , you will see in his third answer to the first question . but to proceed . § . . he brings a miscellany of such opinions and practices ( as he calls them ) which are very apt to hinder a good life , and therefore none who have a care of their salvation , can venture their souls in the communion of such a church , which either enjoyns , or publickly allows them . he reckons up no less than ten . . that we destroy the necessity of good life , by makeing the sacrament of penance ( that is , confession and absolution ) joyned with contrition , sufficient for salvation . and do not protestants make contrition alone , which is less , sufficient for salvation ? but perhaps the joyning of confession and absolution with contrition , makes it of a malignant nature : if so , certainly when the book of common prayer in the visitation of the sick , enjoyns the sick man , if he find his conscience troubled with any weighty matter , to make a special confession , and receive absolution from the priest in the same words the catholick church uses , it prescribes him , that as a means to prepare himself for a holy death , which in the judgement of the objector , destroyes the necessity of good life . . catholicks , he sayes , take off the care of good life , by supposing an expiation of sin ( by the prayer of the living ) after death : but certainly the belief of temporal pains to be sustained after death , if there be not a perfect expiation of sin in this life , by works of penance , is rather apt to make a man careful not to commit the least sin , than to take off the care of a good life . and though he be ascertained by faith , that he may be holpen by the charitable suffrages of the faithful living , yet this is no more encouragement to him to sin , than it would be to a spendthrift to run into debt , and be cast into prison , because he knows he may be relieved by the charity of his friends . if he were sure there were no prison for him , that would be an encouragement indeed to play the spend-thrift . and this is the case of the protestants in their denyal of purgatory . . the sincerity of devotion , he sayes , is much obstructed by prayers in a language which many understand not . if he speak of private prayers , all catholicks are taught to say them in their mother tongue : if of the publick prayers of the church , i understand not why it may not be done with as much sincerity of devotion , the people joyning their intention and particular prayers with the priest , as their embassador to god , as if they understood him : i am sure the effects of a sincere devotion , for nine hundred years together which this manner of worship produced in this nation , were much different from those we have seen since the readucing of the publick lyturgie into english , as is manifest from those monuments , which yet remain of churches , colledges , religious houses , &c. with their endowments , and in the conversion of many nations from heathenism to christianity , effected by the labours and zeal of english missionaries in those times , &c. but this is a matter of discipline , and so not to be regulated by the fancies of private men , but the judgement of the church ; and so universal hath this practice been both in the primitive greek and latine churches , and is still ( by the confession of the ( protestant ) authors themselves of the bible of many languages , printed at london , anno . ) in most of the sects of christians , to have not only the scriptures , but also the liturgies and rituals in a tongue unknown , but to the learned among them : that who will dispute against it , must prepare himself to hear the censure of st. austin , ep. . where he saith , that it is a point of most insolent madness , to dispute whether that be to be observed , which is frequented by the whole church through the world . . he sayes , the sincerity of devotion is much obstructed , by making the efficacy of sacraments depend upon the bare administration , whether our minds be prepared for them or not . in what council this doctrine was defined , i never read ; but as for the sacrament of penance , which i suppose he chiefly aims at , i read in the council of trent , sess. . falso quidam calumniantur , that some do falsly calumniate catholick writers , as if they taught the sacrament of penance did confer grace without the good motion of the receiver , which the church of god never taught nor thought . but i am rather inclined to look upon this as a mistake , than a calumny in the objector . . he sayes , the sincerity of devotion is much obstructed by discouraging the reading of scriptures , which is our most certain rule of faith and life . here he calls the churches prudential dispensing the reading of scripture to persons , whom she judges fit and disposed for it , and not to such whom she judges in a condition to receive , or do harm by it , a discouraging the reading of scriptures ; which is no other than whereas st. paul , coloss. . . enjoyns fathers not to provoke their children , lest they be discouraged ; one should reprove a father for discouraging his child , because he will not put a knife or sword into his hands , when he foresees he will do mischief with it to himself or others ; the scriptures in the hands of a meek and humble soul , who submits its judgement in the interpretation of it to that of the church , is a sword to defend it : but in the hands of an arrogant and presumptuous spirit , that hath no guide to interpret it , but it s own fancy or passion , it is a dangerous weapon , with which he will wound both himself and others . the first that permitted promiscuous reading of scripture in our nation , was king henry the eighth ; and many years were not passed , but he found the ill consequences of it ; for in a book set forth by him in the year . he complains in the preface , that he found entred into some of his peoples hearts an inclination to sinister understanding of it , presumption , arrogancy , carnal liberty , and contention : which he compares to the seven worse spirits in the gospel , with which the devil entred into the house that was purged and cleansed . whereupon he declares that for that part of the church ordained to be taught , ( that is , the lay people ) it ought not to be denyed certainly , that the reading of the old and new testament is not so necessary for all those folks , that of duty they ought and be bound to read it ; but as the prince and policy of the realm shall think convenient , so to be tolerated or taken from it . consonant whereunto , saith he , the politick law of our realm , hath now restrained it from a great many . this was the judgement of him , who first took upon him the title of head of the church of england ; and if that ought not to have been followed in after times , let the dire effects of so many new sects and fanaticisms , as have risen in england from the reading of it , bear witness . for as st. austin sayes , neque enim natae sunt haereses ; heresies have no other origen but hence , that the scriptures which in themselves are good , are not well understood , and what is understood amiss in them , is rashly and boldly asserted , viz. to be the sense of them . and now whether the scriptures left to the private interpretation of every fanciful spirit , as it is among protestants , be a most certain rule of faith and life , i leave to your self to judge . . he sayes , the sincerity of devotion is much obstructed by the multitude of superstitious observations never used in the primitive church , as he is ready to defend , he should have said to prove ; for we deny any such to be used in the church . . by the gross abuse of people in pardons and indulgences . against this , i can assert as an eye-witness , the great devotion caused by the wholsome use of indulgences in catholick countreys : there being no indulgence ordinarily granted , but enjoyns him that will avail himself of it , to confess his sins , to receive the sacraments , to pray , fast , and give alms , all which duties are with great devotion performed by catholick people , which without the incitement of an indulgence , had possibly been left undone . . he sayes , the sincerity of devotion is much obstructed , by denying the cup to the laity , contrary to the practice of the church in the solemn celebration of the eucharist for a thousand years after christ. this thousand years after christ makes a great noise , as if it were not as much in the power of the church a thousand years after christ , as well as in the first or second century to alter and change things of their own nature indifferent , such as the communicating under one or both kinds , was ever held to be by catholicks . but although the cup were not then denyed to the laity , yet that the custome of receiving but under one kind was permitted , even in the primitive church , in private communions , the objector seems to grant , becasue he speaks only of the administration of it in the solemn celebration , and that it was also in use in publick communions , is evident from examples of that time , both in the greek church in the time of st. chrysostome ; and of the latin in the time of st. leo the great . as for the pretended obstruction of devotion , you must know catholicks believe that under either species or kind , whole christ true god and man is contained and received ; and if it be accounted an hindrance to devotion to receive the total refection of our soul , though but under one kind , what must it be to believe that i receive him under neither , but instead of him have elements of bread and wine ? surely nothing can be more efficacious to stir up reverence and devotion in us , than to believe , that god himself will personally enter under our roof . the ninth hinderance of the sincerity of devotion is , that we make it in the power of a person to dispense in oathes and marriages contrary to the law of god. to this i answer , that some kind of oaths , the condition of the person and other circumstances considered , may be iudged to be hurtful , and not fit to be kept , and the dispensation in them is , no more than to iudge or determine them to be so : and consequently to do this cannot be a hinderance but a furtherance to devotion , nor is it contrary to the law of god which commands nothing that 's hurtful to be done . as for marriages we acknowledge the church may dispense in some degrees of consanguinity and affinity , but in nothing contrary to the law of god. his tenth pretended obstruction of devotion is , that we make disobedience to the church in disputable matters , more hainous than disobedience to christ in unquestionable things , as marriage , he saith , in a priest to be a greater crime than fornication . i answer , that whether a priest may marry or no ( supposing the law of the church forbidding it ) is not a disputable matter ; but 't is out of question , even by the law of god that obedience is to be given to the commands or prohibitions of the church : the antithesis therefore between disobedience to the church , in disputable matters , and disobedience to the laws of christ in unquestionable things , is not only impertinent to the marriage of priests which is unquestionably forbidden ; but supposing the matter to remain disputable after the churches prohibition , destroys all obedience to the church . but if it suppose them only disputable before , then why may not the church interpose her iudgement , and put them out of dispute ? but still it seems strange to them , who either cannot or will not take the word of christ , that is , his counsel of chastitie , that marriage in a priest should be a greater sin than fornication . but he considers not , that though marriage in it self be honourable , yet , if it be prohibited to a certain order of persons , by the church to whom christ himself commands us to give obedience , and they oblige themselves by a voluntary vow to live in perpetual chastity , the law of god commanding us to pay our vows , it loses its honour in such persons , and if contracted after such vow made , is in the language of the fathers no better than adultery . in the primitive church it was the custome of some younger widdows to dedicate themselves to the service of the church , and in order thereunto to take upon them a peculiar habit , and make a vow of continency for the future . now in case they married after this , st. paul himself , tim. . . saith , that they incurred damnation , because by so doing , they made void their first faith , that is , as the fathers expound it , the vow they had made . and the fourth council of carthage , in which were bishops , and among them st. austin gives the reason in these words ; if wives who commit adultery are guilty to their husbands , how much more shall such widdows as change their religious state , be noted with the crime of adultery ? and if this were so in widdows , much more in priests , if by marrying they shall make void their first faith given to god , when they were consecrated in a more peculiar manner to his service . thus much may suffice for answer to the argument , which with its intricate terms may seem to puzzle an unlearned reader , let us now speak a word to the true state of the controversie , which is , whether marriage or single life in a priest be more apt to obstruct or further devotion . and st. paul himself hath determined the question , cor. . . where he saith , he that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to our lord , how he may please our lord ; but he that is married careth for the things that are of the world , how be may please his wife . this is the difference he putteth between the married and single life , that this is apt to make us care for the things which belong to god ; and that to divert our thoughts from him to the things of the world. iudge therefore which of these states is most convenient for priests , whose proper office it is to attend wholly to the things of god ? having thus cleared catholick doctrines from being any wayes obstructive to good life or devotion , i shall proceed to his third argument , by which he will still prove that catholicks run a great hazard of their souls , in adhering to the communion of the church of rome , because it exposeth the faith of christians to so great uncertainty . this is a strange charge from the pen of a protestant , who hath no other certainty for his faith but every mans interpretation of the letter of the scriptures . but , first he saith it doth this , by making the authority of the scriptures to depend upon the infallibility of the church , when the churches infallibility must be proved by the scriptures . to this i answer that the authority of the scripture , not in it self , for so it hath its authority from god ; but in order to us and our belief of it , depends upon the infallibility of the church . and therefore st. austin saith of himself , that he would not believe the gospel , unless the authority of the catholick church did move him . and if you ask him what moved him to submit to that authority ; he tells you , that besides the wisdom he found in the tenets of the church , there were many other things which most justly held him in it : as the consent of people and nations , an authority begun by miracles , nourished by hope , increased by charity , and established by antiquity , the succession of priests , from the very seat of st. peter , to whom our lord commended the feeding of his sheep , unto the present bishoprick . lastly , the very name of catholick which this church alone among so many heresies hath not without cause obtained so particularly to her self ; that whereas all hereticks would be called catholicks , yet if a stranger demand where the catholicks go to church , none of these hereticks dares to shew either his own house or church . these ( saith st. austin , ) so many and great , most dear bonds of the name of christian , do justly hold a believing man in the catholick church . these were the grounds which moved that great man to submit to her authority : and when catholick authors prove the infallibility of the church from scriptures , 't is an argument ad hominem to convince protestants who will admit nothing but scripture , and yet when they are convinced , quarrel at them as illogical disputants , because they prove it from scripture . next he saith we overthrow all foundation of faith , because we will not believe our sences in the plainest objects of them . but what if god have interposed his authority , as he hath done in the case of the eucharist , where he tells us , that it is his body , must we believe our sences rather than god ? or must we not believe them in other things , because in the particular case of the eucharist we must believe god , rather than our sences ? both these consequences you see are absurd : now for the case it self , in which he instances , dr. taylor above cited confesses , that they ( viz. catholicks ) have a divine revelation ( viz. christs word , this is my body ) whose litteral and grammatical sence , if that sence were intended , would warrant them to do violence to all the sciences , in the circle ; but , i add , it would be no precedent to them not to believe their sences in other the plainest objects of them , as in the matter of tradition , or christs body after the resurrection . . he saith that we expose faith to great uncertainty , by denying to men the use of their judgement and reason as to matters of faith proposed by a church , that is , we deny particular mens iudgement , as to matters of faith , to be as good if not better than the churches , and to inferre from hen●e , that we make faith uncertain , is just as if on the contrary one should say , that protestants make faith certain by exposing matter of faith determined by the church , to be discussed and reversed by the iudgement and reason ( or rather fancy ) of every private man. we have good store of this kind of certainty in england . but as for the use of our iudgement and reason , as to the matters themselves proposed by the church , it is the daily business of divines and preachers , not only to shew them not to be repugnant to any natural truth , but also to illustrate them with arguments drawn from reason . but the use , he would have of reason , is i suppose , to believe nothing , but what his reason can comprehend , and this is not only irrational in its self , but contrary to the doctrine of st. paul , where he commands us to captivate our understandings to the obedience of faith. . he adds , we expose faith to uncertainty by making the church power extend to making new articles of faith. and this if it were true , were something indeed to his purpose . but the church never yet owned any such power , in her general councils , but only to manifest and establish the doctrine received from her fore-fathers ; as is to be seen in the prooems of all the sessions of the council of trent , where the fathers before they declare what is to be believed , ever premise that what they declare , is the same they have received by tradition from the apostles . and because it may happen that some particular doctrine was not so plainly delivered to each part of the church , as it happened in st. cyprians case , concerning the non-rebaptization of hereticks , we acknowledge it is in her power , to make that necessary to be believed which was not so before , not by inventing new articles , but by declaring more explicitely the truths contained in scripture and tradition . lastly he saith , we expose faith to great uncertainty , because the church pretending to infallibility , does not determine controversies on foot among our selves . as if faith could not be certain , unless all controversies among particular men be determined , what then becomes of the certainty of protestants faith , who could yet never find out a sufficient means to determine any one controversie among them ? for if that means be plain scripture , what one iudgeth plain , another iudgeth not so , and they acknowledge no iudge between them to decide the controversie . as for the catholick church if any controversies arise concerning the doctrine delivered ( as in st. cyprians case ) she determines the controversie by declaring what is of faith. and for other controversies which belong not to faith , she permits , as st. paul saith , every one to abound in his own sence . and thus much in answer to his third argument , by which , and what hath been said to his former objections , it appears that he hath not at all proved what he asserted in his second answer to the first question , viz. that all those who are in the communion of the church of rome do run so great a hazard of their salvation , that none who have a care of their souls ought to embrace or continue in it . but he hath a third answer for us , in case the former faile ; and it is , § . . that a protestant leaving the communion of the protestant church doth incurr a greater guilt , than one who was bred up in the church of rome , and continues therein by invincible ignorance . this is the directest answer he gives to the question , and what it imports is this , that invincible ignorance ( and he doth not know what allowance god will make for that neither ) is the only anchor which a catholick hath to save himself by . if by discoursing with protestants , and reading their books , he be not sufficiently convinced , whereas he ought in the supposition of the answerer , to be so , that the letter of the scripture as interpretable by every private mans reason is a most certain rule of faith and life ; but is still over-ruled by his own motives , ( the same which held st. austin in the bosome of the catholick church ) he is guilty of wilful ignorance and consequently a lost man ; there is no hope of salvation for him . much less for a protestant who shall embrace the catholick communion , because he is supposed ( doubtless from the same rule ) to have sufficient conviction of the errors of the roman church , or is guilty of wilful ignorance , if he have it not , which is a damnable sin , and unrepented of destroyes salvation . so that now the upshot of the answer to the question , whether a protestant embracing catholick religion upon the same motives , which one bred and well grounded in it , hath to remain in it , may be equally saved with him , comes to this , that they shall both be damned , though unequally , because the converted catholick more deeply , than he that was bred so . and now who can but lament the sad condition of that great doctor and father of the church , and hitherto reputed st. austin , who rejecting the manichees pretended rule of scripture , upon the aforesaid grounds , left their communion to embrace the communion of the church of rome ? and what is become now of their distinction of points fundamental from not fundamental , which heretofore they thought sufficient to secure both catholicks and protestants salvation , and to charge us with unconscionable uncharitableness in not allowing them to be sharers with us . the absurdness of these consequences may serve for a sufficient conviction of the nullity of his third and last answer to the first question . as for what he saith to the second , i agree so far with him , that every christian is bound to choose the communion of the purest church , but which that church is , must be seen by the grounds it brings to prove the doctrines it teaches , to have been delivered by christ and his apostles . that church is to be judged purest which hath the best grounds : and consequently it is of necessity to salvation to embrace the communion of it . what then you are bound to do in reason and conscience is , to see which religion of the two , hath the strongest motives for it , and to embrace that as you will answer the contrary to god and your own soul. to help you to do this , and that the answerer may have the less exception against them , i will give you a catalogue of catholick motives ( though not all neither ) in the words of the forecited dr. taylor , advertising only for brevity sake , i leave out some mentioned by him , and that in these i set down , you also give allowance for some expressions of his , with which he hath mis-represented them : thus then he , liberty of proph. sect. . speaking of catholicks , the beauty and splendour of their church , their pompous ( he should have said ) solemn service ; the stateliness and solemnity of the hierarchy , their name of catholick , which they suppose ( he should have said , their very adversaries give them ) as their own due , and to concern no other sect of christians ; the antiquity of many of their doctrines , ( he should have said all ) the continual succession of their bishops , their immediate derivation from the apostles ; their title to succeed st. peter , the flattering ( he should have said due ) expression of minor bishops ( he means , acknowledging the pope head of the church ) which by being old records , have obtained credibility ; the multitude and variety of people which are of their perswasion ; apparent consent with antiquity in many ceremonials , which other churches have rejected ; and a pretended and sometimes ( he should have said alwayes ) apparent consent with some elder ages in matters doctrinal ; the great consent of one part with another in that which most of them affirm to be de fide ( of faith ) the great differences which are commenced among their adversaries , abusing the liberty of prophecying into a very great licentiousness ; their happiness of being instruments in converting divers ( he should rather have said of all ) nations . the piety and austerity of their religious orders of men and women ; the single life of their priests and bishops , the severity of their fasts , and their exteriour observances , the great reputation of their first bishops for faith and sanctity ; the known holiness of some of those persons , whose institutes the religious persons pretend to imitate ; the oblique arts and indirect proceedings of some of those who departed from them , and amongst many other things the names of heretick and schismatick which they with infinite pertinacity ( he should have said , upon the same grounds the fathers did ) fasten upon all that disagree from them . these things , saith he , and divers others may very easily perswade persons of much reason , and more piety to retain that which they know to have been the religion of their fore-fathers , which had actually possession and seizure of mens understandings , before the opposite professions ( to wit of protestant , presbyterian , anabaptist , &c. ) had a name . thus dr. taylor , an eminent and leading man amongst the protestants ; and if he confess that these motives were sufficient for a catholick to retain his religion , they must be of like force to perswade a dis-interessed protestant to embrace it , unless the protestants can produce motives for their religion of greater , or at least equal force , with these , which so great a man among them confesseth , that catholicks have for theirs . here therefore you must call upon the author of the paper you sent me to produce a catalogue of grounds , or at least some one ground for the protestant religion of greater or equal force with all these : and as dr. taylor saith , divers others which he omitted , viz. the scripture interpreted by the consent of fathers , the determination of general councils , the known maxime of catholicks , that nothing is to be believed of faith , but what was received from their fore-fathers as handed down from the apostles . the testimonie of the present church , of no less authority now , than in st. austins time , both for the letter and the sence of the scripture , &c. do this , and the controversie will quickly be at an end . particular disputes are endless , and above the understanding of such , as are not learned ; but in grounds and principles , 't is not so hard for reason and common sence to iudge . that you may the better do it in your case , i shall desire you to take these two cautions along with you : first , that the subject of the present controversie , are not those articles in which the protestants agree with us , and for which they may pretend to produce the same motives , we do : but in those in which they dissent from us such as are no transubstantiation , no purgatory , no honour due to images , no invocation to saints , and the like , in which the very essence of protestant , as distinct from catholick consists . what motives they can or will produce for these . i do not foresee : the pretence of scriptures being sufficiently plain hath no place here , because then the foresaid negatives would be necessary to be believed as divine truths . and for their own reason and learning , it will be found too light when put into the scale against that of the catholick church for so many ages . the second caution is , that you be careful to distinguish between protestants producing grounds for their own religion , and finding fault with ours . an atheist can cavil and find fault with the grounds which learned men bring to prove a deity , such as are the order of this visible world , the general consent of nations , &c. in this an atheist thinks he doth somewhat . but can he produce as good or better grounds for his own opinion ? no , you see then 't is one thing to produce grounds for what we hold , and another to find fault with those which are produced by the contrary part . the latter hath made controversie so long , and the former will make it as short ; let the answerer therefore instead of finding fault with our motives produce his own for the articles in controversie , and i am confident you will quickly discern which carry the most weight , and consequently which are to be preferred . a defence of the foregoing answer to the questions . chap. i. of the idolatry practised in the church of rome , in the worship of images . the introduction , concerning the occasion of the debate . the church of rome makes its members guilty of hypocrisie or idolatry : first , of the worship of god by images : some propositions for clearing the notion of divine worship . it is in gods power to determine the way of his worship , which being determined , gods law , and not our intention , is to be the rule of worship . the main question is , whether god hath forbidden the worshipping of himself by an image , under the notion of idolatry ? of the meaning of the second commandment , from the terms therein used , the large sense and importance of them , which cannot be understood only of heathen idols . of the reason of that law , from gods infinite and invisible nature : how far that hath been acknowledged by heathens ? the law against image worship no ceremonial law respecting meerly the iews ; the reason against it made more clear by the gospel : the wiser heathen did not worship their images as gods , yet their worship condemned as idolatry . the christian church believed the reason of this law to be immutable ; of the doctrine of the second council of nice ; the opposition to it in greece , germany , france and england . of the scripture instances of idolatry contrary to the second commandment , in the golden calf , and the calves of dan and bethel . of the distinctions used to excuse image-worship from being idolatry : the vanity and folly of them . the instances supposed to be parallel answered . madam , § . . that increase of controversies in my answer , which the proposer of the questions , calls a superfoetation , was but the natural issue of his own questions . to which , i could not give a just answer , without mentioning the hazards a person runs of his salvation in the communion of the roman church : and if he thinks these too many ( as in truth they are ) he ought to condemn that church for it , which hath been the cause of them . and , i know no other end i had herein , but to let you see , there can be no reason to forsake the communion of our church , wherein the way of salvation is the same , with that of the apostolical and primitive church , for another , which hath degenerated so much from it ; as i hope will appear in the following discourse . to wave therefore any farther debate , concerning the terms or sense of the questions : as to the occasion of them , i could not but suppose it to relate to your own condition , and i dare appeal to himself , whether the question of the possibility of the salvation of a protestant turn'd to the church of rome were moved for any other end , than thereby the easier to draw persons of our church into their communion ; which being so common , and yet so weak an artifice , i had reason to premise an answer to that purpose : and i do still affirm , that such a possibility being granted , it is no sufficient motive to any one to leave the communion of one church for another . and whether this be to his question or no , i am sure it is very much to the purpose , for which this controversie was first started . i beseech you therefore madam , do not so much disparage your own judgement , and the church you have been bred up in , to forsake it , till some better reason be offered , than the proposer pretends that his questions imply : which , if not for your own sake , yet for mine i desire you to insist upon , that i may know one reason at least from them , ( which i cannot yet procure , although i have often requested it ) why the believing all the ancient creeds and leading a good life , may not be sufficient to salvation , unless one be of the communion of the church of rome ? but lest i should be thought to digress , i return to his papers , and am willing to pass over his unhandsome reflection on our church as in a sinking condition , which god hath hitherto preserved , and i hope will do , to the confusion of its enemies : but why he should call my comparison a supposition , and his own a truth , before he proved their church to be the catholick church , i am yet to seek . and so i come to the main business . § . . my second answer was , that all those who are in the communion of the church of rome , do run so great a hazard of their salvation , that none who have a care of their souls , ought to embrace it , or continue in it . which i am amazed he should say , was not pertinent to the question , if the question were propounded for any ones satisfaction , that doubted which churches communion it were best to embrace ? this i proved , . because they must by the terms of that communion , be guilty either of hypocrisie or idolatry ; either of which , are sins inconsistent with salvation . here he charges me with a contradiction , because i overprove what i intended ; but he may easily excuse me from it , if he will allow the possibility of salvation to any one who commits any wilful sins ; for in the case of any such sins , it is true , that they are inconsistent with salvation , and yet he that doth commit them , doth but run the hazzard of salvation , because he may repent of them . but if it be a contradiction to say , that some sins are inconsistent with salvation , yet those who commit them , may be saved , though hardly ; he must make all who commit any wilful sin to be unavoidably damned ; and then it is to no purpose , what church we are of . the meaning therefore was this , that hypocrisie and idolatry , are sins inconsistent with a state of salvation ; and there is no way to escape being damned , but by the repentance of those who are guilty of them . ( but of this more at large in the vindication of my third answer ) and those who are in the communion of the church of rome , must be guilty either of the one or the other of these , i proved by this argument , that church which requires giving to the creature the worship due only to the creator , makes the members of it guilty of hypocrisie or idolatry ; but the church of rome in the worship of god by images , the adoration of bread in the eucharist , and the formal invocation of saints , doth require giving to the creature the worship due only to the creator , therefore it makes the members of it guilty of hypocrisie or idolatry . which i did prove by parts . . § . . concerning the worship of god by images , i proved that it could not be terminated on god , because in the second commandment he not only denys to receive it , but threatens to punish those who give it . to this he answers . that it is a contradiction to say , that it is the worship of god by an image , and yet be terminated wholly on the creature . . that this is built , on a mistake of the nature of humane acts , which though they ought to be governed by the law of god , yet when they swerve from it , cease not to tend to their own proper objects : and that gods prohibition of such or such a kind of worship , may make it to be unlawful , but hinders not the act from tending , whither it is intended ; which he proves by the prayers of thieves and murderers , to god for good success ; the iews offering to god in sacrifice the blind and the lame , which he hath forbidden ; cains offering a sacrifice to god , which he refused to accept of ; from whence he concludes , that though god should have forbidden men to worship him by images , yet it doth not follow , but the worship so given , would be terminated on him . . that the second commandment only forbids the worship of idols , or the giving the soveraign honour due to god to an idol ; but this doth not forbid the worship of images , because they give to them only an inferiour and relative honour , and not , that worship which is due to god. this is the substance of his answer : but to let you see the insufficiency of it , i shall prove these two things : . that where god hath prohibited any particular way or means of giving worship to himself , that worship so given , cannot be said to be terminated on him . . that god in the second commandment hath expresly prohibited the giving any worship to himself by an image ; and not barely the worship of idols . . that where god hath prohibited any particular way or means of giving worship to himself , that worship so given , cannot be said to be terminated on him : and however new this way of proposing this argument , seems to him , i do not question to make it good , notwithstanding his so peremptory denying it , as absolutely false . but in order to the clearing of it , i shall lay down these propositions . . that worship is nothing else but an external signification of honour and respect . for we do not here speak concerning the bare internal acts of the mind ; but of the way whereby the esteem we have in our minds , is expressed in such a manner as to give honour to that which we so esteem . . that the signification of honour , which is due to god is not to be measured by the intentions of men , against the declared will of god. for , it being in his power to determine in what way he will be worshipped , we are not to enquire , whether men do intend any act of theirs for his honour ; but whether god doth allow it or no ? and herein lyes his great mistake in thinking , that mens intentions are to be the rule of divine worship : so that what they design for the honour of god , must needs end in it . whereas , if god hath the power of making a rule for his own worship , he cannot be honoured by mens doing any thing against his declared will , whatever their intention be . for , then god might be honoured by the most palpable acts of disobedience ; which is a plain contradiction ; for what can be greater dishonour to god , than to break his laws for his honour . . the divine law being the rule of worship , all prohibited wayes of worship must receive that denomination which god himself gives them . as if a prince should declare it by his laws , to be treason for any man to bow down to a sign-post with his head upon it , under pretence of giving the greater honour to his prince ; i desire to know , whether a mans intentions of honouring his prince thereby , excuse him from treason or no ? so it is in our case , if god absolutely prohibits the worship of himself by an image , whatever the intention of the person be , and calls this by the name of idolatry , no mans directing the intention of his mind beyond the image , can excuse him from it . from whence , it necessarily follows , that the worship of god by an image , when himself hath prohibited it , and declared it idolatry , as i shall prove he hath done in the second commandment , cannot be terminated on god , but only on the image ; for no man will be so absurd , as to say , that an act of idolatry is terminated upon god. by which we see , how far it is from the appearance of a contradiction , to say that the worship of god by an image being declared to be idolatry by himself , should be terminated wholly on the creature , ( which are but other words explaining the nature of idolatry ) and what an easie answer will take off all his other instances . for those do not suppose , any prohibited object or means of worship , which is the only thing we speak of ; but either praying to the true god for bad ends , as in the case of thieves and murderers praying for good success ; or bringing something in sacrifice to him which he had forbidden , as the iews offering the blind and the lame : or some miscarriage in the minds of them that sacrifice or pray to him , as in cains oblation , and wicked mens prayers ; but all these are very remote from the present debate , concerning an object or means of worship prohibited by god himself under the notion of idolatry . this being cleared , i come to prove , § . . . that god in the second commandment hath expresly prohibited the giving any worship to himself by an image : and not meerly giving the worship of god to idols , as he asserts . our controversie now being about the sense of a law , the best wayes we have to find out the meaning of it , are either , from the terms wherein it is expressed , or from the reason annexed to it ; or from the judgement of those whom we believe best able to understand and interpret it . i shall therefore prove that to be the meaning of this law of god which i have set down , from every one of these wayes . . from the terms wherein the law is expressed : this i the rather insist upon , because it is the way himself hath chosen : for he saith , the hebrew word pesel , in latin sculptile is used in scripture to signifie an idol , and so the lxx . translate it in this place by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and therefore saith , it was an artifice of the protestants to translate it image instead of idol , and not any certain kind of image neither , but any whatsoever ; thou shalt not make to thy self any graven image , instead of , thou shalt not make to thy self an idol . by his own acknowledgement then , we are to judge the sense of the law , by the importance of the words therein used ; but i shall prove , first , that supposing pesel did signifie only an idol , yet that were not enough . secondly , that pesel is very properly rendred by the protestants , and that it doth not signifie barely an idol . . supposing that were the signification of pesel which he contends for , that were not enough , unless there had been no other word but that used in the law : but another word is added to prevent a mistake of that nature , of as large a signification as may be to this purpose : which is , themuna , which they render similitude as well as we , and is never used in the whole scripture to signifie such an idol as he supposes this law intends . to what purpose then are words of the largest signification put into a law ; if the sense be limited according to the most narrow acceptation of one word mentioned therein ? for there is no kind of image , whether graven , or painted , whether of a real or imaginary being , but is comprehended under the signification of the words set down in the law : for not only the making a similitude in general , is forbidden , but any kind of similitude whether of things in heaven , or earth , or under the earth , to bow down to them , or worship them . i confess it cannot enter into my mind , how god should have forbidden the worship of images by more express and emphatical words than he hath done ; and if he had used any other words , their sense might as well have been perverted as these are . if a prince should under a very severe penalty forbid all his subjects making any image or resemblance , with an intent to give honour to him by kneeling before them ; would not that man be thought very ridiculous , who should go about to interpret the law thus , that the prince did not forbid them making any picture of himself or his son , or any of his favourites ( for the worship of these could not but redound to his own honour ) but only that they should make the image of an ape , or an ass , or a tyger , thinking to honour their prince thereby ? much such an exposition is that here given of the law ; god forbids any image or similitude to be made with respect to his worship ( for it is ridiculous to imagine the law means any thing else ) but , he saith , this law must not be understood to exclude a crucifix , nor i suppose any image of god himself : ( at least as he appeared of old ; ) nor of his saints or angels , with an intention to worship god by them ; but only they should not worship apis or dagon , an ichneumon or a crocodile , or any of the most ridiculous follies of the heathen . if this had been the meaning of the law , why was it not more plainly expressed ? why were none of the words elsewhere used , by way of contempt of the heathen idols here mentioned , as being less lyable to ambiguity ? why in so short a comprehension of laws , is this law so much inlarged above what it might have been , if all that he saith , were only meant by it ? for then the meaning of the two first precepts might have been summed up in very few words : you shall have no other gods but me ; and you shall worship the images of no other gods but me . this is his meaning , but far enough from being that of the second commandment . . the only word he insists upon which is pesel , is very properly rendred an image , and it doth not signifie barely an idol : the word properly signifies any thing that is carved , or cut out of wood or stone : and it is no less than forty several times rendred by the lxx . by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , sculptile , and but thrice by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and which is very observable , although exod. . . they render it by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , yet in the repetition of the law , deut. . . the alexandrian ms. hath it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and deut. . . in other copies of the lxx . the same word is translated 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; from whence it is plain , that when they translate it by an idol , they mean no more thereby than a graven image , and isa. . . they translate it , by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is properly an image ; so that no assistance can be given him by that translation ; and the vulgar latin it self useth idolum , sculptile and imago , all to express the same thing , isa. . , , . by which it appears , that any image being made so far the object of divine worship , that men do bow down before it ; doth thereby become an idol , and on that account is forbidden in this commandment . § . . . we consider the reason given of this law , which will more fully explain the meaning of it ; which the scripture tells us , was derived from gods infinite and incomprehensible nature , which could not be represented to men , but in a way that must be an infinite disparagement to it . to whom will ye liken god ? or what likeness will ye compare unto him ? the workman melteth a graven image , and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold , &c. have ye not known ? have ye not heard ? hath it not been told you from the beginning ? have ye not understood from the foundation of the earth ? it is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth , &c. i desire to know whether this reason be given against heathen idols , or those images which were worshipped for gods or no ? or whether , by this reason god doth not declare , that all worship given to him by any visible representation of him , is extreamly dishonourable to him ? and to this purpose , when this precept is enforced on the people of israel by a very particular caution , deut. . , , &c. take ye therefore good heed to your selves , lest ye corrupt your selves and make you a graven image , the similitude of any figure , &c. the ground of that caution , is expressed in these words , for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the lord spake unto you . if the whole intention of the law , were only to keep them from worshipping the heathen idols , or images for gods , to what purpose is it here mentioned that they saw no similitude of god when he spake to them ? for although god appeared with a similitude then , yet there might have been great reason against worshipping the heathen idols , or fixing the intention of their worship upon the bare image . but this was a very great reason , why they ought not to think of honouring god by an image ; for if he had judged that , a suitable way of worship to his nature and excellency ; he would not have left the choice of the similitude to themselves , but would have appeared himself in such a similitude as had best pleased him . § . . from hence the wiser persons of the heathens themselves condemned the worship of god by images , as incongruous to a divine nature and a disparagement to the deity . so theodoret tells us , that zeno in his books of government , did absolutely forbid the making any images for worship , because they were not things worthy of god : and that xenophanes colophonius derided the folly of those who made their images which they worshipped , to be like themselves , and by the same reason saith he , if horses and elephants could paint as men can , no doubt the gods would be made in their shape ; as the aethiopians and thracians and others made their gods in their own colour and fashion : but he addes , that the true god ought not to be represented by the resemblance of men to whom he was unlike in body and mind . and that the only reason which hindred plato from prohibiting all manner of images was only the fear of socrates his fate : for , saith he , he did forbid all private images , all images of gold and silver , of ivory , of iron and brass , and left only wood and stone , which being so contemptible matter might more easily keep the people from worshipping images made of them . as god himself , saith he , derideth the idolater in the prophet ; he burneth part thereof in the fire , and the residue thereof maketh he a god , even his graven image . antisthenes in clemens alexandrinus condemns the use of images for instruction , because there is so great a dissimilitude between god and any visible representation of him , that no man can learn any thing of god , from an image : and xenophon to the same purpose , that god is great and powerful , but we know not how to represent him . and clemens gives that reason why numa prohibited among the romans all images to represent the deity , because we could not attain to any due conception of the deity , but only by our minds , which is the same reason that plutarch gives . and therefore varro in the known testimony to this purpose , speaking of the old romans who had no images for years in their divine worship , saith , that if the same custome had continued , their worship would have been more pure and chaste ; and that those who first placed images in places of divine worship , increased their errour and took away their reverence ; wisely judging saith st. augustine that the folly of images would easily bring the deity into contempt . and augustus , as agrippa in philo reports , after he understood , that the iewes in their temple had no images or visible representations of the deity , expressed his wonder with great reverence , having no mean skill in philosophy . so that we see the wisest persons who had no such law from god to direct them , yet by the bare use of reason did agree in the thing it self , that it was unsuitable to the divine nature to worship god by any images or visible representations of him . from hence we have reason to suppose among the more ancient nations who kept nearer to the dictates of natural reason , the worship of images was almost generally rejected . so bardesanes in eusebius saith of the most eastern countries then known ; of the seres and the brachmanns , so herodotus , strabo , diogenes laertius say of the persians . so tacitus of the germans , that they rejected images , because they thought them unsuitable to the greatness of their deities . so lucian likewise saith of the most ancient aegyptians ; and historians agree of the romans , as we have already seen . if all this had been a meer positive law intended only for the iewes , because of their dulness and stupidity , as some imagine , whence comes it to pass that those who never heard of this law yet judged such a way of worship to be wholly unbecoming a divine nature ? it was not meerly the fear lest they should worship the images themselves for gods , which was the reason of the commandment , but the incongruity of such a way of worship to a being supposed to be of an infinite and a spiritual nature . § . . and it seems of all things the most strange to me , that any persons should think this precept only respected the iewish oeconomy ; and that now under the gospel where we have clearer discoveries of gods spiritual nature and worship , that we should be left at liberty to do that , which was before , unlawful to be done . was it inconsistent with gods nature then , and is it less so now , when we understand his nature much better ? and that is given as a particular reason why we ought to worship him after a spiritual manner ; and not by any corporeal representation as the iews say the samaritans worshipped god in the form of a dove in their temple on mount garizim : in which , notwithstanding what morinus saith , there seems to be no improbability not only from our saviours words and the occasion of speaking them to a samaritan woman , ( which we do not find he insisted on so much to the iewes as being then free from this kind of idolatry ) and the constant tradition of the iewes ; but from the nature of the samaritan religion which they received from the ten tribes , which worshipped god under images , as will appear afterwards , and the agreeableness of the symbol of a dove to the name of semiramis and their assyrian off-spring among whom the dove was accounted sacred . but however this be , since the reason of this command drawn from the invisible and spiritual nature of god , is now enforced upon us by the gospel as the ground of giving spiritual worship to god , how can any men in their senses imagine that worship should be lawful among christians which was unlawful to the iewes ? is it , that there is now no danger of falling into heathen idolatry as there was among the iewes , on which account god tied them up so strictly in this point of images ? but this is to begg the question , and to take it for granted that there was no other reason of this command , whereas god himself hath told us another , and that is , the incongruity of it to his infinite nature ; which the very heathens themselves apprehended in this case . i grant god might by this means design to keep them at the greatest distance from the heathen idolatry ; but that doth not hinder , but there was an evil in the thing it self , as it doth imply so great a disparagement of the divine nature to be worshipped by a corporeal representation . as we may say that the prohibition of common swearing was intended by god to keep men from perjury ; but besides that , it implyes so great an irreverence of god , that it is evil without that further respect . and can any one imagine there should be greater irreverence of god shewn in calling him to witness upon every slight occasion , than there is in bowing down before a block or a hewn stone representing god to my mind by it ? what can such an image do to the heightening of devotion , or raising affections ? if it be by calling to my mind that being i am to worship , then there must be supposed some likeness , or analogy , or vnion between the object represented and the image , every one of which tends highly to the dishonour of the deity , and suggests mean thoughts to us of the god we are to worship . and is there no danger among christians that they should entertain too low and unworthy thoughts of god ? and can any thing tend to it more effectually , than the bringing down the representations of him to the figure and lineaments of a man drawn upon a table or carved in an image ? on which account , it seems much more reasonable for me to worship god by prostrating my self to the sun , or any of the heavenly bodies , nay to an ant or a fly , than to a picture or an image : for in the other i see great evidences of the power , and wisdom and goodness of god , which may suggest venerable apprehensions of god to my mind ; whereas these can have nothing worthy admiration , unless it be the skill of the painter or artificer ? and i cannot , for my heart , understand ; why i may not as well , nay better , burn incense and say my prayers to the sun , having an intention only to honour the true g●d by it , as to do both those to an image : i am sure the sun hath far more advantages than any artificial image can have ; the beauty and influence of it may inflame and warm ones devotions much more . if the danger be , that i am more like to take the sun for god than an image : on that account , that which deserves most honour should have least given it , and that which deserves least should have most . for the danger is there still greater , where the excellency is greater , and by that means we ought rather to worship a beast than a saint , for there is less danger of believing one to be god than the other ; and so the aegyptians were more excusable than the papists . i must ingenuously confess , if i had been an heathen idolater , only upon such principles as these , that there is one supreme infinite being , who makes use of some more illustrious beings of the world , to communicate benefits to the rest , on which account , i thought my self bound to testifie the honour i owe to the supream deity , by paying my devotions in subordination to him , to those subservient and ministerial gods ; i should not have been afraid , of what any papists in the world could have said for my confutation . nay , i should have been tempted to have laughed at their folly and despised their weakness , who should plead for the worship of god in or by a dull and rude image , and condemn me for honouring god in the most noble parts of the creation ? if they had told me , that the supream god , must have a worship proper to himself ; yes , i should answer them in their own terms , i by no means question it , and that is it , which is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is reserved to the supream deity , all that i give to inferiour deities , is but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , only the sun deserved an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because of his eminent usefulness . if they had said , i made them gods by giving them religious worship : no more , than they do images . if yet they had urged , that god had forbidden worshipping the host of heaven ; yes , that is , giving the worship of the supreme god to them , but not a subordinate relative , inferiour worship , which was all i intended , and i hope they are not so ignorant of the nature of humane actions as not to know that they go whither they are intended ; and my intent was only to honour the true god by it : or else , that the worshipping the host of heaven was forbidden to the dull and stupid iewes , who had no kind of philos●phy in them , and did not see those admirable images of the divine perfections in them which i did ; but for men of philosophical and contemplative minds what injury to god could there be , as long as the more i saw cause to honour these , far greater i still saw to honour him who produced all these things ? or lastly , i would appeal to themselves whether the precept against worshipping the host of heaven , or images were more plain in the scripture ? the second commandment is not in words against the worship of the things but the images of them , and the first against worshipping them as the supream god ; i did neither ; but they could not possibly excuse themselves who did the same things to an image , which they do to god himself . thus we see the reason of the commandment is by no means appropriated to the iews , but doth extend as far as the knowledge of it doth : and the same arguments which notwithstanding that command would justifie the worship of images , will likewise justifie the most early , the most general , the most lasting idolatry of the world , which is the worship of the sun , moon , and starrs . and a mighty argument that the reason of this command , drawn from the unsuitableness of the worship of images to the nature of god is of an unalterable and universal nature , is , that the same reason is urged under the new testament against the idolatry of the heathens . so st. paul dealt with the athenians , proving the unreasonableness of their worshipping god by images , because he was the god that made the world and is lord of heaven and earth , and that we are his off-spring , therefore we ought not to think that the god head is like unto gold or silver , or stone graven by art or mans device : he doth not speak meerly against their other objects of worship besides the true god , nor their supposing their gods to be present in their images , nor taking their images for gods , but against their supposition that there was any resemblance between god and their images , or that he was capable of receiving any honour by them . the same argument he useth to the romans , speaking of those , in whom that which may be known of god is manifest , even his eternal power and god-head ; yet these persons who knew god , did not glorifie him as god , but changed the glory of the incorruptible god into an image made like to corruptible man , &c. where changing his glory into images , is immediately opposed to the glorifying him as god in respect of his eternal power and god-head ; so that those two are inconsistent with each other , to glorifie god by an image and to glorifie him as god. for here the apostle doth not discourse against the most gross and sottish idolaters of the heathens , but as st. chrysostome well observes against the philosophers and the wisest among them : who , though they differed in their opinions of religion extremely from the vulgar , yet they concurred with them in all the external practices of their idolatry . and therefore the apostle doth not charge them with false notions of a deity , for he saith , they held the truth in unrighteousness , that they knew god , but they shewed their vanity and solly in thinking they had found out subtiller wayes of defending the common idolatries among them , and instead of opposing them , made use of their wits , to excuse them . and the most intelligent heathens did never look on their images as any other than symbols or representations of that being to which they gave divine worship . no one but a fool thinks otherwise of them , saith celsus ; they are only books for the ignorant saith porphyrie , and the heathens in athanasius . they deny , in arnobius , that they ever thought their images to be gods , or to have any divinity in them , but what only comes from their consecration , to such an vse ; and in st. augustin , that they worshipped the images themselves , but through them they worshipped the deity ; maximus tyrius discourses largely on this subject , and shews , that images were but the signs of divine honour , and helps to remembrance . they are but symbols of the presence of the gods , saith iulian ; we do not think them gods , saith he , but that through them we may worship the deity ; for we being in the body , ought to perform our service in a way agreeable to it . and eusebius testifies in general of the heathens , that they did not look on their images as gods ; however some among them had an opinion of the gods being incorporated in them . i desire to know whether these men who worshipped images upon those grounds did amiss or no in it ? i do not ask whether they were mistaken as to the objects of their worship , but on supposition they were not , whether they were to blame in the manner of serving god by images in such a way as they describe ? if not , wherefore doth st. paul pitch upon that , to condemn them for , which they were not at all to blame in ? he ought to have done as the iesuits in china did , who never condemned the people for worshipping images , but for worshipping false gods by them ; and perswaded them not to lay them aside , but to convert them to the honour of the true god : and so melted down their former images , and made new ones of them . can we imagine st. paul meant the same thing , when he blames men not for believing them to be gods , but that god could be worshipped by the work of mens hands ; and for changing thereby the glory due to god in regard of his infinite and incorruptible being , into mean and unworthy images , thinking thereby to give honour to him . § . . and upon these grounds the primitive fathers disputed against the heathen idolatry ; for , the making use of corporeal representations makes the deity contemptible , saith clemens of alexandria . origen saith , that christians have nothing to do with images , because of the second commandment ; and on that account will rather dye , than defile themselves with them : and that it is impossible any one that knows god , should pray to them . that it is no sufficient excuse to say , they do not take them for gods , but only for symbols or representations of them , for they must be ignorant , mean , and unlearned persons , who can imagine the work of an artificer can be any representation of a deity . it would be too tedious at this time to transcribe all the invectives in the writings of the fathers upon this subject : where they dispute against the heathens from this argument , and do still suppose the force of the reason of this law , to oblige christians as much as ever it did the iews ; but i purposely forbear , only taking notice that after the worship of images came in , with the decay of the primitive pi●ty and learning in the eastern churches , yet the great defenders of them still declared their abhorrence of any representation of the divine nature . so germanus patriarch of constantinople in his epistles yet extant in the actions of that wise synod at nice ; we make , saith he , no kind of image , or similitude , or figure , or representation of the invisible deity ; and that the meaning of the commandment of the law against images was , that the divine nature was invisible and incomprehensible , and like to nothing we see , and that we ought not to entertain any corporeal conceptions of god. and damascen saith expresly , that it is the highest madness and impiety to go about to make an image of god : i. e. saith clichtovaeus , so as to think any image to be like unto god , or able perfectly to represent him to us ; which is likewise bellarmins answer : as though ever any men were such fools to believe an image could perfectly represent an infinite being ; or , that god need to make a law to forbid that , which is utterly impossible in the very nature of the thing ; he might more reasonably forbid men to paint a sound , to grasp all the air in the hollow of their hands , to drink up the ocean , to wear the sun for a pendant at their ears , or to make new worlds , than to command them not to make any image which should perfectly represent his nature : and yet of this kind of image alone of the true god , bellarmine understands the prohibition of the law , and the sayings before mentioned , but all other , he saith , were allowed by both , whether by way of history or analogical resemblance , or the fashion of a man wherein he hath appeared : i. e. all possible representations of god are allowed , and only that which is impossible forbidden . but this answer is not more weak and trifling , than contrary to the meaning of germanus , tharasius , or the rest of the nicene fathers , who do acknowledge , there was no ground to make any images with respect to the divine nature , till the incarnation of christ ; but since god appeared in humane nature , there is no incongruity in representing that by an image , and by that to give honour to the invisible godhead , as long as they preserve the true belief concerning the deity ; and consequently may honour god , by giving worship to the images of those saints whom they believe to be in heaven with god. § . . this is the substance of the doctrine of the second council of nice ; which they justifie by fabulous stories , and impertinent citations , and insufficient answers . for , when the fathers of the synod at constantinople had said , that christ came to deliver us from all idolatry , and to teach the worship of god in spirit and in truth ; they bravely answer , that then it is impossible for christians to fall into idolatry , because christs kingdom was alwayes to continue , and the gifts and graces of god are without repentance . which would as well hold against the prevalency of the turk , as idolatry among them . those fathers urge , that the devil now not being able to reduce the world to the former idolatry , endeavours under hand to introduce it , under a pretence of christianity , bringing them again to the worship of the creature , and making a god of a thing that is made , when they have called it by the name of christ. these answer , that it is true , the fathers used that argument against the arrians , who supposed christ to be a creature , and they grant that they were guilty of idolatry in giving divine worship to christ , when they believed him to be a creature ; but the difference lyes herein , that the arrians trusted in christ , and gave properly divine honour to him , which they say , they did not to the images , but only worshipped them for the sake of the object represented by them . but aquinas and his followers have at large proved , that where any thing is worshipped , meerly for the sake of another , it must have the same kind of worship given it , which they give to the thing represented by it : for as aquinas observes , the motion of the soul towards an image is twofold : either as it is a thing , or as it is an image : the first , he saith is distinct from that motion which respects the object ; but the second is the same ; so that to the image of christ , as made of wood or stone , no worship at all is given : and therefore it being given meerly on the account of its being an image , it necessarily follows , that the same worship must be given to the image , which is given to christ himself . and so they are in the same case with the arrians , whom they acknowledge to be idolaters ; notwithstanding their christianity , or that the gifts and graces of god are without repentance . besides the constantinopolitan fathers urge the great absurdity of making an image of christ , for worship ; because christ is god and man , therefore the image must be of god and man , which cannot be , unless the deity be circumscribed within the created flesh , or there be a confusion of both natures after their union , both which are blasphemies condemned by the church . the nicene fathers in answer to this yield , that the name christ is significative of both natures , and that an image can only represent the visible humane nature , and that it agrees only in name , and not in substance with the thing represented : and after many reviling expressions against their adversaries , ( no argument of the goodness of their cause ) they say , that if the divine nature were circumscribed within the humane nature in the cradle , and on the cross , then it is in an image , if not in one , neither is it in the other . but what doth this answer signifie , unless there be an equal presence and union of the divine nature of christ with the image , as there was with the humane nature ? which union , was the reason of the adoration given to the person of christ ; and what ground can there be then of giving divine worship to the image of christ , unless the same union be supposed ? if the humane nature without the union of the divine , could yield us no sufficient reason of divine worship being given to it , how much less can an image deserve it , which can only at the best represent but the external lineaments of that humane nature ? and if the divine nature be supposed united with the image , then the same divine honour is due to the image of christ , which is to god himself , which yet these nicene fathers deny : and the image then joyned with the divine nature , is as proper an object of divine worship without respect to any prototype , as the person of christ is consisting of the divine and humane nature . again , they urge , if the humane nature of christ be represented in the image of christ to be worshipped as separate from the divine , this would be plain nestorianism . to this the good nicene fathers , not knowing what to answer , plainly deny the conclusion , and cry , they nestorians ? no , they lye in their teeth ; they were no more nestorians than themselves , nor so much neither : and now , good men , they say , it is true , they do represent christ only by his humane nature in an image ; and when they look on images , they understand nothing but what is signified by them ; as when the birth of the virgin is represented , they conceive in their minds , that he who was born , was truly god as well as man. alas for them ! that they should ever be charged with the worship of images ! they plead for nothing now , but a help to their profound meditations by them . but the controversie was about worship , what ever they think ; and their adversaries argument did not lye in the images being considered as an object of perception , but of worship : i. e. if the image can only represent the humane nature of christ , as separate from the divine ; and in that respect be an object of worship to us , then the charge of nestorianism follows ; but this they very wisely pass by ; and their distinction of the image from the principal , cannot serve their turn , since the image receiving the worship due to the principal , must have not only the name , ( as they say ) but the reason of worship common with the principal which it represents . after this , the fathers of constantinople proceed to another argument , which is , that all the representation of christ allowed us by the gospel , is that which christ himself instituted , in the elements of the lords supper , whose use was to put us in remembrance of christ. no other figure or type being chosen by christ as able to represent his being in the flesh , but this . this was an honourable image of his quickning body , made by himself , say they ; which he would not have of the shape of a man to prevent idolatry ; but of a common nature , as he took upon him the common nature of man , and not any individuated person ; and as the body of christ was really sanctified by the divine nature ; so by institution this holy image is made divine through sanctification by grace . here the nicene council quarrels with them , for calling the eucharist an image , contrary , as they say , to the scriptures and fathers ; but they are as much to be believed therein , as in their admirable proofs , that the worship of images was the constant doctrine of the church ; and having strenuously denyed this , they suppose that to be enough to answer the argument . besides these particular arguments against the images of christ , the council of constantinople useth many more against the images of any other , because these being the chief , there can be less reason for any other besides , that there is no tradition of christ or his apostles , or the primitive fathers for them , no way of consecration of them prescribed or practised , no suitableness in the use of them to the design of christian religion , which being in the middle between iudaism and paganism , it casts off the sacrifices of the one , and not only the sacrifices , but all the idolatries of the other : and it is blasphemy to the saints in heaven , to call in the heathen superstitions into christianity , to honour them by : that it is unbecoming their glory in heaven , to be set up on earth in dull and sensless images ; that christ himself would not receive testimony from devils , though they spake truth ; neither can such a heathenish custome be acceptable to the saints in heaven though pretended to be for their honour . that nothing can be plainer in the gospel , than that god is a spirit , and will be worshipped in spirit and in truth ; to which nothing can be more contrary , than the going about to honour god by worshipping any image of himself , or his saints . these and many other arguments from the scriptures and fathers , that council insists upon , to shew the incongruity of the worship of images , to the nature of god , and the design of the christian religion ; to which the council of nice returns very weak and trivial answers , as shall more largely appear , if any one thinks good to defend them . and we have this apparent advantage on our side , that although the popes of rome sided with these worshippers of images , yet the council at francford condemned it , called together by charles the great : not out of misunderstanding their doctrine , as some vainly imagine ; because as vasquez well proves , the copy of the nicene council was sent to them by pope adrian , because the acts of that council were very well known to the author of the book written upon this subject under the name of charles the great , and published by du tillet at paris , about the middle of the last century ; which is acknowledged by their learnedst men to have been written at the same time ; because the popes legats theophylactus and stephanus were present , and might easily rectifie any mistake , if they were guilty of it ; and none of the historians of that time do take notice of any such error among them . but vasquez runs into another strange mistake himself , that the council of francford did not condemn that of nice , which is evident they did , expresly by the second canon of of that council published by sirmondus . and all the objections of vasquez are taken off by what sirmondus speaks , of the great authority and antiquity of that ms. from which he published them , and from the consent of the historians of that time , that the council of francford did reject that of nice : and sirmondus saith , they had good reason to deny it to be an oecumenical council , where only the greeks met together , and none of other provinces were called , or asked their opinion , and pope adrian himself , he saith , in his defence of it against the caroline books , never gives it the name or authority of an oecumenical council . the same council was rejected here in england , as our historians tell us , because it asserted the adoration of images , which the church of god abhors ; which are the words of hoveden and others . and we find afterwards in france by the synod of paris called by ludovicus pius upon the letters of michael balbus emperour of constantinople , in order to the vnion of christendome in this point , that these western churches persisted still in the condemnation of the nicene council which they would not have done after so long a time to inform themselves , if a meer mistake of their doctrine at first , had been the cause of their opposition . but whosoever will read the caroline books , or the synod of paris , or agobardus and others about that time , will find that they condemn all religious worship of images , as adoration ; and contrary to that honour which is due to god alone , and to the commands which he hath given in scripture . and i extreamly wonder how any men of common sense , and much more any of learning and judgement , that had read the book of charles the great against the nicene synod , could imagine it altogether proceeded upon a mistake of the meaning of it ; when it so distinctly relates and punctually answers the several places of scriptures and fathers produced by it for the worship of images . in the first book an answer is given to many impertinent places of the old testament alledged in that council ; which the second proceeds with , and examines several testimonies of the fathers ; and in the two remaining books pursues all their pretences with that diligence , that no one can imagine all this while that the author did not know their meaning . and that by adoration he means no more than giving religious worship to images appears from hence , because he calls the civil worship which men give to one another , by the name of adoration : when he shewes , that it is another thing to give adoration to a man upon a civil respect , and to give adoration to images upon a religious account , when god challenges all religious worship or adoration to himself : and whatever reason will hold for such a worship of images will much more hold for the worship of men , who have greater excellency in them , and more honour put upon them by god , than any images can ever pretend to . that god allows no other kind of adoration to be given to any but himself , but that which we give to one another . can any be so senseless to think , that by this civil adoration , he meant , we honoured every man we met as our soveraign prince ? and as little reason is there to say , that by adoration given to images , he meant only the incommunicable worship due only to god , in the sense of those fathers . can we imagine , saith he , that s. peter would allow the worship of images , who forbad cornelius to worship him ? or st. john whom the angel checked for offering to worship him , and bid him give that honour to god ? or paul and barnabas , who with such horror ran among the men of lycaonia when they were about to worship them ; and yet , surely angels and such persons as these deserved more to be worshipped than any images can do . but we see by these examples , that even these are not to be adored with any other kind of adoration , than what the offices of civility require from us . besides in his language those who followed the council of constantinople are said , not to adore images , by which nothing else can be meant , than their giving no religious worship to them ; and when he shews the great inconsequence of the argument from the adoration of the statues of the emperours to the adoration of images , because in matters of religious worship we are not to follow the customes of men against the will of god ; he thereby shews what kind of adoration he intended , not the worship of latria , but supposed to be of an inferiour sort . in so much , that binius confesseth , that the design of these books was against all worship of images . it is true pope hadrian in the answer he sent to these books which is still extant in the tomes of the councils doth deny , that the synod intended to give proper divine worship to images ; but that is no more than the synod it self had in words said before ; but that was not the question what they said , but what the nature of the thing did imply ? whether that religious worship they gave to images was not part of that adoration which was only due to god ? and he that expects an answer to this from him , will find himself deceived ; who is so pitifully put to it for an answer to the demand of any example of words of the apostles to justifie image-worship , that he is forced to make use of some mystical passages of dionysius the supposed areopagite , wherein the word image hapning to be , is very sufficient to his purpose . and this answer of hadrians gave so little satisfaction to the western bishops , that a.d. . the synod at paris being called by ludovicus pius to advise about this point , did condemn expressely pope hadrian for asserting a superstitious adoration of images ; which they look on as a great impiety : and say that he produces very impertinent places of the fathers , and remote from his purpose ; and that setting aside his pontifical authority in his answer to the caroline books , there were some things apparently false : and they have nothing to excuse him by , but his ignorance . and therefore they at large shew , that the religious worship of images came first from hereticks ; and that it was alwayes condemned by the fathers of the christian church : and answer the arguments produced on the other side out of the writings of the fathers . and supposing that superstitious custome of worshipping images , had for some time obtained , yet they shew by several testimonies , that it ought to be abrogated . no wonder then that bellarmine is so much displeased with this synod , for offering so boldly to censure the popes writings , and a synod approved by him : wherein the saith , they exceed the fault of the author of the caroline books : because , as he confesseth , they offered to teach the pope , and resisted him to the face . and yet , no doubt , they had read and considered hadrians words , wherein he disowns the giveing true divine honour to images . not long after this synod came forth the book of agobardus archbishop of lyons against images , occasioned saith papirius massonus , by the stupendous superstition in that age in the worship of them . and this , saith he , is the substance of his doctrine out of st. augustine and other fathers , that there is no other image of god , but what is himself , and therefore cannot be painted , and he ought not to be worshipped in any image , but what he hath prescribed us to worship , which is christ ; that adoration is external or internal ; that , both of them are called religion , by which we are bound eternally to god , and only to him : from whence it follows , that neither angels nor saints are to be worshipped by any religious worship : for this is the law of adoration , that no creature , no phantasm of god in our minds , no work of mens hands ought to be worshipped : for if gods creatures are not to be worshipped , much less ours , such as images of god , angels and saints are . neither is it enough to say , that they do not worship the image , but the thing represented ; for the object terminates the worship , and it is a deceit of the devil under the pretence of honouring the saints , to bring mens minds to idols , and from the true god to carnal things : that images are to be used only for shew and memory , and not at all for religion ; that god alone is to be worshipped with all religious worship , whether called latria or doulia , or what name soever , and for the casting away all superstition , that no images be painted in churches , no statues erected , nor accounted holy , that the true god may be worshipped alone , for ever . this is the abstract of his doctrine delivered by massonus , whose other writings shew he was far from being partial towards the reformation . and the book it self is lately published by baluzius again , where any one may easily satisfie himself concerning fidelity . but baluzius very honestly tells us , some have suspected this book not to be very catholick : and therefore it was censured by baronius and the spanish index ; yet he ingenuously confesseth , he saith no more than the whole gallican church believed in that age. what that was , i have already shewed . this i have the larger insisted upon , to shew , that it is no new thing for us to plead for all religious worship being appropriated to god , and that the command against image-worship was no ceremonial law respecting meerly the iews , but that the reason of it doth extend to all ages and nations , and especially to us who live under the gospel . from all which it follows , that it was not meerly the heathen idolatry which was forbidden by god , nor barely to prevent their falling to that by degrees , but the giving to himself such a worship ; which he judges so unworthy of him . § . . . from those who were best able to understand the meaning of it . we can imagine none so competent a judge of the meaning of a law , as the giver of it , and what he afterwards declares to be the sense of this law. the first occasion given for knowing the meaning of the law concerning images , was not long after the making of it , when upon moses his absence , they compelled aaron to make them a golden calf , exod. . . here was an image made contrary to the law , as is on all sides acknowledged ; but the question is , whether by this the israelites did fall into the heathen idolatry , or only worship the true god under that symbol of his presence ? that they did not herein fall back to the heathen idolatry , i thus prove : . from the occasion of it , which was not upon the least pretence of infidelity as to the true god , or that they had now better reason given them for the worship of other gods besides him ; but all they say , was , that moses had been so long absent , they knew not what was become of him , and therefore they say to aaron , make us gods ( or a god , as in nehem. . . ) to go before us . we cannot imagine the people so sottish ; to desire aaron to make them a god in the proper sense , as though they could believe the calf newly made , to have been the god , which before it was made , brought them out of the land of aegypt as they say afterwards , v. . but it must be understood as the symbol of that god which did bring them from thence : the controversie then lyes here , whether they thought the aegyptian gods delivered them out of aegypt , while they forsook all their own worshippers , to preserve those who were so great enemies to them , that their very way of worship was an abomination to all the aegyptians , exod , . . and whether they could think the gods of aegypt had wrought all the miracles for them in their deliverance and after it ? whether they appeared not long before on mount sinai , and delivered the law to them ? or , whether it were not the true god they meant , who had made that the preface to his laws , i am the god that brought thee out of the land of aegypt ; to whom they intended still to give honour : but the only question was concerning the symbol of his presence , that was to go before them . for which , we are to consider , that immediately before moses his going up into the mount , the last promise god made to them was , that he would send his angel before them , exod. . , . which is elsewhere called his presence , exod. . . moreover , they understood that there should be some extraordinary symbol of this presence ; but what it was , they could not tell ; for moses was then gone into the mount to learn : but he not being heard of in forty dayes , they took it for granted , he was not to be heard of more ; therefore they fall upon devising among themselves what was the fittest symbol for the presence of god going before them ; and herein the greatest number being possessed with the prejudices of their education in aegypt , where golden bulls were the symbols of their chief god osiris , they pitch upon that , and force aaron to a complyance with them in it . . there is no intimation given in the whole story , that they fell into the heathen idolatry ; for when afterwards they fell into it , the particular names of the gods are mentioned , as baal-peor , moloch , remphan . numb . . . acts . . but here , on the contrary , aaron expresly proclaims a feast to the lord , exod. . . and the people accordingly met and offered their accustomed offerings , v. . whereas if it had been the aegyptian idolatry , their common sacrifices were abominations , they must not have sacrificed sheep and oxen , as they were wont to do . and that it was not the idolatry of other nations , who worshipped the host of heaven , is plain from st. stephens words , acts . , . and they made a calf in those dayes , and offered sacrifice unto idols , and rejoyced in the works of their own hands ; then god turned and gave them up to worship the host of heaven . whereby it is both observable that the idolatry of the calf was distinct from the other heathen idolatry , this being a punishment of the other ; and withal though the calf was intended by them , to be only a symbol of gods presence , yet being directly against gods command , and having divine worship given it , it is by s. stephen called an idol ; and to the same purpose the psalmist speaks , they made a calf in horeb , and worshipped the molten image ; thus they changed their glory ( or rather his ) into the similitude of an oxe that eateth grass , psal. . , . which certainly was idolatry as well as that st. paul charges the romans with , viz. that they changed the glory of the incorruptible god into an image made like to corruptible man , and to birds , and four footed beasts , and creeping things , rom. . . and we see how highly god was displeased with the israelites for this sin of the golden calf , exod. . , , , . the same may be said of the two calves of ieroboam at dan and bethel ; for it was neither agreeable to his end , nor so likely to succeed , to take the ten tribes off from the worship of the true god ; but only from the place of it at hierusalem , and the occasion of the kingdomes coming to him was from solomons falling to heathen idolatry , king. . . which would make him more cautious of falling into it , especially at his first entrance : and when the gods of other nations are mentioned , they are particularly described , as ashtoreth of the zidonians , chemosh of the moabites , and milcom of the children of ammon , kings . . and in ahabs idolatry , the occasion and description of it is given , kings . . but of ieroboam it is only said that he set up the calves at dan and bethel , and said unto the people , it is too much for you to go up to hierusalem , behold thy gods o israel which brought thee up out of the land of aegypt , kings . , . how easie had it been to have said that ieroboam worshipped the gods of aegypt if that had been his intention ! but , how much better had he then argued , that they had been hitherto in a great mistake concerning the true god , and not meerly as to the place of his worship , which is all he speaks against : for he continued the same feasts and way of worship , which were at hierusalem , king. . . besides , how comes the sin of ahab to be so much greater than that of ieroboam , if they were both guilty of the same apostasie to heathen idolatry , kings . . ? how came the worship of the true god in the ten tribes to be set in opposition to heathen idolatry , kings . ? how comes iehu at the same time , to boast his zeal for his lord , when it is said of him , that he departed not from the sins of jeroboam , viz. the golden calves of dan and bethel , kings . , ? lastly , how comes the worship of the true god to be preserved in the ten tribes after their captivity , when they still continued their separation in religion , from the kingdom of iudah , kings . ? for , certainly , if the samaritans had only desired information concerning the worship of the god of israel after the way of hierusalem , they would have sent only thither for it ; but because they sent into the land of their captivity , for a priest to be sent to them ; it is plain the former differences still continued , and yet it is said he taught them to fear the lord. and notwithstanding it be thus evident that ieroboam did not fall then into heathen idolatry , yet we see that he is charged with idolatry in scripture ; for it is said , that he had done evil above all that were before him , and had gone and made him other gods and molten images to provoke god to anger , and had cast him behind his back , kings . . from whence it necessarily follows , that if god may be allowed to interpret his own law , the worshipping of images though designed for his honour is idolatry . and since the lawgiver hath thus interpreted his own law , we need not be solicitous about the sense of any others ; yet herein we have the concurrence of the iewish and christian church : the iews have thought the prohibition to extend to all kinds of images for worship , and almost all for ornament : and the image worship of the church of rome is one of the great scandals to this day which hinder them from embracing christianity . the primitive christians were declared enemies to all worship of god by images ; but i need the less to go about to prove it now , since it is at last consessed by one of the most learned iesuites they ever had , that , for the four first centuries and further there was little or no use of images in the temples or oratories of christians ; but we need not their favour in so plain a cause as this ; as shall be evidently proved if occasion be farther given . and against my adversaries opinion , that the second command only forbids the worship of idols , we have the consent of some of the most learned writers of his own church against him : for vasquez acknowledgeth , that it is plain in scripture that god did not only forbid that in the second command , which was unlawful by the law of nature , as the worshipping an image for god , but the worshipping of the true god by any similitude of him , and he reckons up many others of the same opinion with him of great estimation in the roman church . § . . but we must now consider what he further produces for his opinion , he therefore saith , if st. austins judgement be to be followed , the second commandment is but a part or explication of the first . but why doth he not tell us whether st. austins judgement be to be followed or no , if it be of so much consequence to the resolving of this controversie ? nay how is he sure this was st. austins constant judgement ; since in his latter writings , he reckons up the commandments as others of the fathers had done before him ? but if st. austins judgement were to be followed in this ? doth it thence follow that this commandment must be only against idols ? no , but that all things concerning the worship of god must be in one command and so they may be , and yet be as full against image worship , as in two : so , that no relief is to be had from hence . and as little from his distinction of an inferiour and relative honour only which is given by them ( he saith ) to the sacred images of christ and his b. mother and saints , and that which they call latria or worship due to god ; the former he saith is only honorary adoration expressed by putting off our hats , kissing them or kneeling before them . which is just as if an unchaste wife should plead in her excuse to her husband , that the person she was too kind with , was extreamly like him , and a near friend of his , and that it was out of respect to him that she gave him the honour of his bed ; can any one think that such an excuse as this would be taken by a jealous husband ? how much less will such like pretences avail with that god who hath declared himself particularly jealous of his honour , in this command above others , and that he will not give his glory to another ; but hath reserved all divine worship as peculiar to himself ; and no such fond excuses of relative , inferiour , and improper worship will serve , when they encroach upon his prerogative . it was well observed by a very learned bishop of our church , that such kind of distinctions so applyed are like the dispute among some of the church of rome in scotland , whether the lords prayer might be used to saints or no , and it was well resolved and very subtilly , that ultimately , principally , primarily and strictly they might not ; but secondarily , less principally and largely or relatively they might . the same would certainly hold for images too . and i wonder very much they stick at any kind of worship to be done to images ; for my own part , were i of their mind , i should as little scruple offering up the host to an image , as saying my prayers to it ; and i should think my self hardly dealt with if i did not come off with the same distinctions . for if i do it to god absolutely and for himself , and to the image only improperly and relatively , wherein i am to blame ? i cannot understand if the image have the honorary adoration as he calls it given to it , only with a respect to what is represented by it , but i may give the same kind of worship to the image which i do to the prototype : and that , upon the rule he quotes from st. basil ( although he uses it quite upon another occasion , as if he looks upon the place he may see ) that the worship of the image is carryed to the prototype or thing represented . i desire therefore seriously to know of him , whether any worship doth at all belong to the image or no ? if none at all , to what end are they kneeled before , and kissed , which if the images had any sense in them , would think was done to them ? and why doth the council of trent determine that due worship is to be given them ? if there be any due , whether it be the same then is given to the prototype , or distinct from it ? if it be the same then proper divine worship is given to the image ; if distinct then the image is worshipped with divine worship for it self , and not relatively and subordinately , as he speaks . i know , madam , when any thing pincheth them , they cry presently these are disputes of the schools , and niceties too deep for you to be able to judge of ; but i assure you some of the best learned among them , have determined which side soever you take you fall into idolatry ; and i hope that is no scholastick nicety with you . i shall endeavour to give you their sense as plainly as i can . bellarmin saith , that no image is to be worshipped properly with that worship which the thing represented is worshipped by ; for latria , ( as he calls it ) is a worship proper to god ; but no image upon account of relation , or any other way is god ; therefore that worship doth not belong to it . it may be saith he , some will say , that latria is a worship proper to god , when it is given for it self , and not for another , ( or relatively . ) i answer , that it is of the nature of latria , ( or divine worship , ) to be given for it self : for , that is the worship , which is due to the true god as the first principle of all things , and it implyes a contradiction for the highest worship to be given to the first principle and relatively or for another ; and therefore this worship is given to the image for it self , which is plain idolatry , or else it is not given for it self , and then it is not latria or properly divine worship . again , either the divine worship , or latria , which is given to the image relatively for another is the same with that which is given to god , or an inferiour worship ; if it be the same , the creature is equally worshipped with god , which certainly is idolatry ; for idolatry , saith he , is not only when god is forsaken , and an idol worshipped ; but when an idol is worshipped together with god. if it be an inferiour worship , then it is not latria , for that is the highest worship . thus far bellarmin ; on the other side vasquez a iesuite , a man of great reputation too , and of as searching a wit as bellarmin , he saith , that it an inferiour worship be given to the image , distinct from that which is given to the thing represented , he that so gives it incurres the crime of idolatry ; for he expresseth his submission to a meer inanimate thing , that hath no kind of excellency to deserve it from him . by which we see that it is in mens choice what sort of idolatry they will commit , who worship images ; but in neither way they can avoid it . § . . but yet he thinks to escape by some parallel instances , as he fancies them ; such as , the honour given to the chair of state , or the kings picture or garment , moses and joshua's putting off their shooes because it was holy ground , the iews falling down before gods footstool , and worshipping the holy of holies , where were the cherubims , propitiatory , and ark , protestants bowing at the name of iesus , or kneeling at the eucharist , and bowing before the altar ; from these he thinks he hath sufficiently cleared , that inferiour and relative worship which they give to images . to which i answer , . to that of the chair of state ; that our dispute is not concerning civil worship , but divine ; and as to civil worship ; i suppose he would not say that were any honour to the king in case he had absolutely forbidden it , as we have proved god hath done in the case of images . . to the putting off the shooes upon holy ground : ( . ) that we think there is some little difference to be made between what god hath commanded , and what he hath forbidden ; for in the case of moses and ioshua , there was an express command , exod. . . josh. . . but in the case of image worship there is as plain a prohibition . ( . ) that the special presence and appearance of god doth sanctifie a place to so high a degree , that we may lawfully testifie our reverence towards it ; but this will not hold for images , unless god be proved present in them in the same manner as he appeared to moses and ioshua , and yet even then the reverence he required , was not kissing it , or bowing to it , much less praying to it , but only putting off their shooes . ( . ) if these things had been done towards the ground , the danger had not been so great as to images , because the ground had nothing of representation in it , but was only sacred by divine consecration ; and therefore it could not pretend to be any similitude of god. but in images there is nothing sacred , but being an image , and so the representation is that , which gives all the excellency and value to it ; and therefore the reverence of holy places and things , is of quite a different nature from the worship of images . . to the iewes adora●ion towards the ark and the holy of holies , where the cherubims and propitiatory were : ( . ) that they only directed their worship towards the place , where god had promised to be signally present among them ; and signifies no more to the worship of images than our lifting our eyes to heaven , doth when we pray , because god is more especially present there . ( . ) that though the cherubims were there , yet they were alwayes hid from the sight of the people , the high-priest himself going into the holy of holies but once a year ; that the cherubims were no representations of god ; and his throne was between them upon the mercy seat ; and were hieroglyphical figures of gods own appointing which the iews know no more than we do : which are plain arguments they were never intended for objects of worship ; for then they must not have been meerly appendices to another thing , they must have been publickly exposed , as the images are in the roman churches , and their form as well known as any of the b. virgin. . to bowing at the name of iesus ; that he might as well have instanced in going to church at the toll of a bell , for as the one only tells us the time when we ought to go to worship god ; so the mentioning the name of iesus doth only put us in mind of him we owe all manner of reverence to , without dishonouring him as the object of our worship , by any image of him , which can only represent that which is neither the object nor reason of our worship . . to kneeling at the eucharist , that of all things should not be objected to us , who have declared in our rubrick after communion , that thereby no adoration is intended or ought to be done either unto the sacramental bread and wine , there bodily received or any corporal presence of christs natural flesh and blood ; for the sacramental bread and wine remain still in their very natural substances ▪ and therefore may not be adored ; for that were idolatry to be abhorred of all faithful christians . to bowing towards the altar , or at entring in and going out of the church , that it is of the same nature with the putting off our hats , while we are there ; and is only determining a natural act of reverence , that way which the ancient christians did use to direct their worship . chap. ii. of their idolatry in adoration of the host and invocation of saints . the argument proposed concerning the adoration of the host ; the insufficiency of the answer to it manifested : supposing equal revelation for transubstantiation as for christs divinity , yet not the same reason for worshipping the host as the person of christ ; the great disparity between these two at large discovered ; the controversie truly stated concerning adoration of the host : and it is proved , that no man on the principles of the roman church can be secure he doth not commit idolatry in it . the confession of our adversaries , that the same principles will justifie the worship of any creature . no such motives to believe transubstantiation as the divinity of christ. bishop taylor 's testimony answered by himself . to worship christ in the sun as lawful as to worship him in the host. the grossest idolatry excusable on the same grounds . the argument proposed and vindicated concerning the invocation of saints practised in the church of rome . the fathers arguments against the heathens hold against invocation of saints ; the state of the controversie about idolatry as managed by them . they make it wholly unlawful to give divine worship to any creature how excellent soever . the worship not only of heathen gods , but of angels condemned . the common evasions answered . prayer more proper to god than sacrifice . no such disparity as is pretended between the manner of invocating saints and the heathens invocating their deities . in the church of rome , they do more than pray to saints to pray for them , proved from the present most authentick breviaries . supposing that were all , it would not excuse them . st. austin no friend to invocation of saints . practices condemned by the church pleaded for it . of negative points being articles of faith . § . . i proceeded to the adoration of the host ; and here the argument i proposed , was , to take off the common answer , that this could not be idolatry because they believed the bread to be god , upon the same ground , i said , they who believe the sun to be god and worship him on that account would be excused from idolatry too , nay the grosser their idolatry was , the more excusable it would be , as that of those who supposed their images to be gods , and upon this ground their worship was more lawful than of those who supposed them not to be so . to this he answers two wayes ; . that they do not barely suppose that the substance of bread is changed into christs body , and that he is really present under the form of bread , but that they know and believe this upon the same grounds and motives upon which they believe that christ is god , and consequently to be adored ; and further addes , that the same argument will hold against the adoration of christ as god , as against the adoration of him in the eucharist , since they have a like divine revelation for his real presence under the sacramental signes , as for his being true god and man. . supposing they were mistaken , yet it would not follow they were idolaters , which he proves from dr. taylors words . but notwithstanding these appearances of answering , that my argument still stands good , will be evident by proving these things . . that supposing there were the same revelation of christs divinity , and of his presence in the eucharist by transubstantiation , yet there could not be the same reason for the adoration of the host , as for worshipping christ himself . . that there are not the same motives and grounds to believe that doctrine of transubstantiatim , that there are to believe that christ is god. . that supposing they are mistaken in the doctrine of transubstantiation , this doth not excuse them from idolatry . . that the same reason which would excuse them , would excuse the most gross idolaters in the world. § . ● . that supposing there were the same divine revelation of transubstantiation and of christs divinity , yet there could not be the same reason for adoration of the host as of christ himself . . because there is a plain command in scripture for one , and there is nothing like it for the other . all the angels are commanded to worship the son of god , heb. . . and much more all men who have greater obligation to do it . all men are to honour the son as they honour the father , joh. . . and to his name every knee is to bow , phil. . . but where is there the least intimation given that we are to worship christ in the elements , supposing him present there ? if it be said , the general command doth extend to him where-ever he is present , it is easily answered that this argument doth prove no more his worship in the elements , than in a turfe , or any other piece of bread ; for christ being god is every where present ; and if his presence only may be ground of giving adoration to that wherein he is present , we may as lawfully worship the sun , or the earth or any other thing , as they do the sacrament . for he is present in all of them . but our worship is not to be guided by our own fancies , but the will of god ; and we have a command for worshipping of the person of christ , and till we see one as to his presence in the sacrament , we ought not to think the one parallel with the other . and by this the weakness of his retorting the argument in the arrians behalf ( so he calls those who believe christ to be a pure man ) against those who worship the son of god will appear : for our worship doth not meerly depend upon our belief but upon the divine command ; and therefore those who have denyed the one , have yet contended for the other . . the one gives us a sufficient reason for our worship , but the other doth not : there can be no greater reason for giving his person adoration than that he is the eternal son of god ; but what equivalent reason to this is there , supposing the bread to be really converted into the body of christ ? all that i can believe then present is the body of christ ; and what then ? is that the object of our adoration ? do we terminate our worship upon his humane nature ? and was it ever more properly so than in dying ? is it not the death of christ that is set forth in the eucharist ? and is his body present any other way than as it is agreeable to the end of the institution ? but it may be they will say , the body of christ being hypostatically united with the divine nature , one cannot be present without the other . that indeed is a good argument to prove the body of christ cannot be there by transubstantiation : for if the bread be converted into that body of christ which is hypostatically united with the divine nature , then the conversion is not meerly into the body but into the person of christ , and then christ hath as many bodies hypostatically united to him , as there are elements consecrated , and so all the accidents of the bread belong to that body of christ which is hypostatically united with the divine nature . nay to make the elements the object of divine worship as they do ; they must suppose an hypostatical union between them and the divine nature of christ ; for if the only reason of joyning the humane nature with the divine in the person of christ as the object of our worship , be the hypostatical union of those natures ; then we can upon no other account make those elements the object of worship , but by supposing such an union between christ and them . but i suppose they will not venture to say , that christ is hypostatically united with the shape , figure and colour of the bread : for they will have nothing else to remain after consecration ( in spight of all the reason and sense of the world ) but meerly those accidents ; and the council of trent determines that the same divine worship which we give to god himself , is in express terms to be given to the most holy sacrament , and pronounces an anathema against all who deny it . and what is the holy sacrament but the body of christ , according to them under the accidents of the bread ; and although the body of christ being believed to be there is the reason of their worship , yet the worship is given to the elements upon that account . § . . but this being a matter of so great importance , to make it as clear as the nature of the thing will allow , i shall yet further prove , that , upon the principles of the roman church , no man can be assured that he doth not commit idolatry every time he gives adoration to the host : and i hope this will abundantly add to the discovering the disparity between the worship given to the person of christ , and that which is given to the eucharist upon supposition of transubstantiation . but before i come to this , i shall endeavour to give a true account of the state of the controversie between us : which i shall do in these particulars . . the question between us is not , whether the person of christ , is to be worshipped with divine worship ; for that we freely acknowledge . and although the humane nature of christ , of it self , can yield us no sufficient reason for adoration , yet being considered as united to the divine nature , that cannot hinder the same divine worship being given to his person , which belongs to his divine nature ; any more than the robes of a prince , can take off from the honour due unto him . . it is not , whether the person of christ , visibly appearing to us in any place , ought to have divine honour given to him ? for supposing sufficient evidence of such an appearance , we make no more question of this , than we do of the former . neither do we say , that we need a particular command in such a case to make it lawful ; any more than the patriarchs did at every appearance of god among them ; or those who conversed with our lord on earth , every time they fell down and worshipped him . where our sense and reason is satisfied as well as st. thomas his was in a visible appearance of christ , we can give divine worship as he did when he said , my lord and my god ; for in this worship given to the person of christ , i am sure i give it to nothing , but what is either god or hypostatically united to the divine nature : but is there not the same reason of believing christ to be present as seeing him ? i answer , in matters of pure revelation there is , where the matter proposed to our faith can be no object of sense ; as christs infinite presence in all places as god , i firmly believe upon the credit of divine revelation , and i give divine worship to him as god suitable to that infinite presence ; but our question is , concerning the visible presence of christ , where honour is given on the account of the divine nature , but he can be known to be present only by his humanity , in this case i say , the evidence of sense is necessary in order to the true worshipping the person of christ. if any should be so impertinent to urge that saying to this purpose , blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed , i shall only say , that doth not at all relate to this matter , but to the truth of christs resurrection . . it is not , concerning the spiritual worship of christ , in the celebration of the eucharist : for we declare that in all solemn acts of religious worship , and particularly in the eucharist we give divine honour to the son of god , as well as to the father . we affirm that we ought not only perform the offices of religion out of obedience to his divine commands , but with a due veneration of his majesty and power , with thankfulness for his infinite goodness , and with trust in his promises , and subjection of our souls to his supream authority . about these things which are the main parts of divine and spiritual worship we have no quarrel , nor do we find fault with any for giving too much to christ in this manner ; but rather for placing too much in the bare external acts of adoration , which may be performed with all external pomp and shew , where there is no inward reverence nor sincere devotion . and yet , . it is not , concerning external reverence to be shewn in the time of receiving the eucharist : for that our church not only allowes but enjoynes , and that not barely for the avoiding such profanation and disorder in the holy communion as might otherwise ensue , but for a signification of our humble and grateful acknowledgement of the benefit of christ therein given to all worthy receivers . but it is withall declared , that thereby no adoration is intended or ought to be done either unto the sacramental bread and wine there bodily received , or unto any corporal presence of christs natural flesh and blood ; as i have already recited it . but the controversie concerning the adoration of the host lyes in these two things . . whether proper divine worship in the time of receiving the eucharist may be given to the elements on the account of a corporal presence of christ under them ? . whether out of the time of receiving , the same adoration ought to be given to it , when it is elevated or carried in procession , which we would give to the very person of christ ? and that this is the true state of the controversie , i appeal to the doctrine and practice of the roman church in this point . for it is expresly determined by the council of trent , that there is no manner of doubt left , but that all christians ought to give the same worship to this holy sacrament which they give to god himself . for it is not therefore less to be worshipped because it was instituted by christ our lord that it might be taken . by which words the true state of the controversie is made evident , which is not about the reverence due only to christ , supposed to be corporally present there , but the adoration due to the sacrament upon that account . and by the sacrament the council must understand the elements or accidents ( or whatever name they call them by ) as the immediate term of that divine worship , or else the latter words signifie nothing at all . for what was that , which was instituted by our lord as a sacrament ? was it not the external and visible signes or elements ? why do they urge , that the sacrament ought not the less to be adored because it was to be taken , but to take off the common objection that we ought not to give divine worship to that which we eat ? and what can this have respect to but the elements ? but this is not denyed , that i know of , by any who understand either the doctrine or practice of that church ; although to answer our arguments they would seem to direct their worship only to christ as present under the elements , yet yielding that on the account of this corporal presence , that which appears , ought to have the same worship given to it , with that which is supposed or believed . and so they make the accidents of the sacrament to have the very same honour which the humane nature of christ hath , which they say hath no divine honour for it self , but on the account of the conjunction of the divinity with it . § . . the controversie being thus stated i come to shew that upon the principles of the roman church , no man can be assured that he doth not commit idolatry every time he gives adoration to the host. for it is a principle indisputable among them , that to give proper divine honour , called by them adoration , to a creature is idolatry ; but no man upon the principles of their church can be assured every time he worships the host , that he doth not give proper divine honour to a creature . for there are two things absolutely necessary to secure a mans mind in the performance of an act of divine worship . . that either the object be such in it self , which deserves and requires such worship from us as in the divine nature of christ : or , . that if of it self , it doth not deserve it , there be a reason sufficient to give it ; as is the humane nature of christ upon its union with the divine : but in this matter of the adoration of the host no man can be secure of either of these upon their own principles . . he cannot be secure that the object is such as doth deserve divine worship . if a man should chance to believe his senses , or hearken to his reason , or at least think the matter disputable , whether that which he sees to be bread , be not really bread , what case is this man in ? he becomes an idolater by not being a fool or a mad man. but because we are not now to proceed upon the principles of sense or reason , but those of the church of rome ; i will suppose the case of one that goes firmly upon the received principles of it , and try whether such a one can be satisfied in his mind , that when he gives divine worship to the host , he doth not give it to a creature . and because we are now supposing unreasonable things , i will suppose my self to be that person . the mass-bell now rings , and i must give the same divine honour to the host , which i do to christ himself : but hold , if it should be but a meer creature , all the world cannot excuse me from idolatry , and my own church condemns me , all agreeing that this is gross idolatry ; how come i then to be assured , that what but a little before was a meer creature , is upon the pronouncing a few words turned into my creator . a strange and sudden change ! and i can hardly say , that god becoming man was so great a wonder , as a little piece of bread becoming god. when god became man , he shewed himself to be god , by wonders and miracles which he wrought for the conviction of the world : i will see , if i can find any such evidence of so wonderful a transformation from a wafer to a deity . i see it to be the very same it was , i handle it as i did , if i taste it , it hath the very same agreeableness to the palat it had : where then lyes this mighty change ? but o carnal reason , what have i to do with thee in these mysteries of faith ! i remember what church i am of , and how much i am bid to beware of thee : but how then shall i be satisfied ? must i relye on the bare words of christ , this is my body ? but i have been told , the scripture is very obscure and dangerous for me to be too confident of the sense of it . i have heard some wise men of our church have said , that these words may bear a figurative sense , like that rock was christ , and that if there were no other evidence for transubstantiation , but what the scripture gives , there were no reason to make it an article of faith . i have heard the great names of scotus , aliaco , biel , fisher , cajctan , canus and others quoted to this purpose , and their testimonies produced . what a case am i in then , if those words do not prove it ? now i think better of it , i must trust the church for the sense of scripture ; and if i be not strangely mistaken , i am sworn to interpret scripture according to the unanimous consent of the fathers : but alas , what relief is this to my anxious mind ? this is a thing i am to do or not to do almost every day , and to be resolved of it , i am put to a task which will hold me all my life time : and may be as unsatisfied at last as i am now . for i see the world is full of disputes concerning the sense of their words as well as the scriptures : one saith , that a father by a figure means a substance , and that another by a substance means a figure ; one man sayes his adversaries authorities are counterfeit , and another sayes the same of his : one quotes the saying of an heretick for the orthodox ; and another makes it appear , that if he spake his own mind , he must contradict himself and others of the fathers . one produces a pope confirming the doctrine of transubstantiation , and another as plain a testimony of a pope of greater antiquity and more learning overthrowing it . one appeals to the first ages of the church , another to the latest : one saith , the fathers spake rhetorically , and another , dogmatically . one , that they loved to talk mystically , and another , that they spake differently about this matter . in this great confusion what ground of certainty have i to stand upon , whereby to secure my mind from commission of a great sin ? i am sure if i live in wilful sin all my dayes , i shall be damned ; but god hath never told me , if i do not study the fathers all my life , i shall be damned . it is satisfaction i desire , and that i am not like to have this way , when i see men of greater wit , and subtlety , and judgement , than ever i am like to come to , are still disputing about the sense of the fathers in this point : witness the late heats in france about it . while i am in this labyrinth a kind priest offers to give me ease , and tells me , these are doubts and scruples i ought not to trouble my self about , the authority of the present church is sufficient for me : i thank him for his kindness , only desiring to know , what he means by the authority of the present church : for i find we catholicks are not agreed about that neither . may i be sure if the pope who is head of the church say it ? no , not unless he defines it : but may i be sure then ? no , not unless a general council concur : but may i be sure , if a general council determines it ? yes , if it be confirmed wholly by the pope , and doth proceed in the way of a council : but how is it possible for me to judge of that , when the intrigues of actions are so secret ? i see then , if this be the only way of satisfaction , i must forbear giving adoration , or be guilty of idolatry in doing it . but suppose i am satisfied in the point of transubstantiation , it is not enough for me to know in general , that there is such a change ; but i must believe particularly that very bread to be changed so , which i am now to worship , and by what means can i be sure of that ? for my church tells me , that it is necessary that he be a priest that consecrates , and that he had an intention of consecrating that very bread which i am to adore . but what if it should come to pass after many consecrations , that such a person prove no priest , because not rightly baptized ; ( which is no unheard of thing ) what became of all their actions who worshipped every host he pretended to consecrate ? they must be guilty of idolatry every mass he celebrated . but how is it possible for me to be sure of his priesthood , unless i could be sure of the intention of the bishop that ordained him , and the priest that baptized him ? which it is impossible for me to be . yet suppose i were sure he was a priest , what assurance have i , that he had an intention to consecrate that very wafer which i am to adore ? if there were thirteen , and he had an intention to consecrate only twelve , if i worship the thirteenth , i give divine honour to a meer creature ; for without the intention of the priest in consecration , it can be nothing else ; and then i am guilty of downright idolatry . so that upon the principles of the roman church no man can be satisfied , that he doth not worship a meer creature with divine honour , when he gives adoration to the host. . no man can be satisfied that he hath sufficient reason for giving this worship to the host. for which we must consider , what suppositions the adoration of the host depends upon , if any of which prove uncertain , i am in as bad a case as i was before . i first suppose , that the bread being really and substantially changed into that very body of christ which was crucified at hierusalem , i ought to give the same honour to that body of christ in the sacrament , which i am to give to the person of christ as god and man , and that the body of christ being present in the sacrament , i may on the account of that presence give the same honour to the sacrament , in which he is present . but if it prove uncertain , whether the humane nature of christ as conjoyned to the divine nature be capable of receiving proper divine worship , then it must be much more so , whether the body of christ as present in the sacrament be so ? but granting that , it may be yet uncertain , whether i ought to give the same honour to the visible part of the sacrament , which i do to the humanity of christ ; for though christ may be present there , his presence doth not make the things wherein he is present , capable of the same divine honour with himself . now that these things are uncertain upon their own principles , i now make appear . i find it generally agreed by the doctors of the roman church , that the humane nature of christ , considered alone , ought not to have divine honour given to it ; and i find it hotly disputed among them , whether christs humane nature though united to the divine , ought , abstractly considered , to have any true divine honour given it ; and those who deny it , make use of this substantial argument , proper divine honour is due only to god , but the humane nature of christ is not god , and therefore that honour ought not to be given it : and i am further told by them , that the church hath never determined this controversie . let me now apply this to our present case : it is certain if the body of christ be present in the eucharist as distinct from the divine nature i am not not to adore it : it is very uncertain , if it be present , whether i am to give divine worship to the body of christ ; but it is most certain , that if i worship christ in the sacrament , it is upon the account of his corporal presence . for although when i worship the person of christ as out of the sacrament , my worship is terminated upon him as god and man ; and the reason of my worship is wholly drawn from his divine nature , yet when i worship christ as in the sacrament , i must worship him there upon the account of his bodily presence , for i have no other reason to worship him in the sacrament , but because his body is present in it . and this is not barely determining the place of worship , but assigning the cause of it ; for the primary reason of all adoration in the sacrament is , because christ hath said this is my body , which words , if they should be allowed to imply transubstantiation , cannot be understood of any other change than of the bread into the body of christ. and if such a sense were to be put upon it , why may not i imagine much more agreeably to the nature of the institution , that the meer humane nature of christ is there , than that his divinity should be there in a particular manner present to no end ; and where it makes not the least manifestation of it self . but if i should yield all that can be begged in this kind , viz. that the body of christ being present , his divinity is there present too ; yet my mind must unavoidably rest unsatisfied still as to the adoration of the host. for supposing the divine nature present in any thing gives no ground upon that account , to give the same worship to the thing wherein he is present , as i do to christ himself . this the more considerative men of the roman church are aware of , but the different wayes they have taken to answer it , rather increase mens doubts than satisfie them . greg. de valentiâ denies not that divine honour is given by them to the eucharist , and that the accidents remaining after consecration are the term of adoration , not for themselves , but by reason of the admirable conjunction which they have with christ. which is the very same which they say of the humane nature of christ , and yet this same person denies , that they are hypostatically united to him : which if any one can understand , i shall not envy him . bellarmin in answer to this argument , is forced to grant as great an hypostatical union between christ and the sacrament , as between the divine and humane nature ; for when he speaks of that , he saith it lyes in this , that the humane nature loseth its own proper subsistence , and it assumed into the subsistence of the divine nature ; and in the case of the sacrament , he yields such a losing the proper subsistence of the bread , and that what ever remains makes no distinct suppositum from the body of christ , but all belong to him and make one with him , and therefore may be worshipped as he is . is not this an admirable way of easing the minds of dissatisfied persons about giving adoration to the host , to fill them with such unintelligible terms and notions ; which it is impossible for them to understand themselves or explain to others ? vasquez therefore finding well that the force of the argument lay in the presence of christ , and that from thence they must at last derive only , the ground of adoration ; very ingenuously yields the consequence and grants that god may very lawfully be adored by us in any created being , wherein he is intimately present : and this he not only grants , but contends for in a set disputation , wherein he proves very well from the principles of worship allowed in the roman church , that god may be adored in inanimate and irrational beings as well as in images , and answers all the arguments the very same way that they defend the other , and that we way worship the sun as lawfully , and with the same kind of worship that they do an image , and that men may be worshipped with the same worship with which we worship god himself if our mind do not rest in the creature , but be terminated upon god , as in the adoration of the host. see here the admirable effects of the doctrine of divine worship allowed and required in the roman church ! for , upon the very same principles that a papist worships images , saints , and the host , he may as lawfully worship the earth , the stars , or men ; and be no more guilty of idolatry in one than in the other of them . so that if we have no more reason to worship the person of christ , than they have to adore the host , upon their principles we have no more ground to worship christ , than we have to worship any creature in the world. § . . . there are not the same motives and grounds to believe the doctrine of transubstantiation , that there are to believe that christ is god , which he affirms , but without any appearance of reason . and i would gladly know what excellent motives and reasons those are which so advantageously recommend so absurd a doctrine as transubstantiation is , as to make any man think he hath reason to believe it ? i am sure it gives the greatest advantage to the enemies of christs divinity , to see these two put together upon equal terms : as though no man could have reason to believe christ to be the eternal son of god , that did not at the same time swallow the greatest contradictions to sense and reason imaginable . but what doth he mean by these motives and grounds to believe ? the authority of the roman church ? i utterly deny that to be any ground of believing at all , and desire with all my heart to see it proved : but this is a proper means to believe transubstantiation by , for the ground of believing is as absurd as the doctrine to be believed by it . if he means catholick tradition , let him prove if he can , that transubstantiation was a doctrine received in the universal church from our saviours time ; and when he pleases i shall joyne issue with him upon that subject . and if he thinks fit to put the negative upon me , i will undertake to instance in an age since the three first centuries , wherein if the most learned fathers , and bishops , ( yea of rome it self ) be to be credited , transubstantiation was not believed . but if at last he means scripture , ( which we acknowledge for our only rule of faith , and shall do in spight of all pretences to infallibility either in church or tradition ) i shall appeal even to bellarmin himself in this case , whether there are the same motives and grounds from thence to believe transubstantiation , as there are , the divinity of christ. in the proof of transubstantiation , his only argument is from those words , this is my body , which words saith he , do necessarily inferre either a real mutation of the bread as the catholicks hold , or a metaphorical as the calvinists , but by no means do admit the lutherans sense ; and so spends the rest of the chapter against them : and concludes it thus , although there be some obscurity or ambiguity in the words of our lord , yet that is taken away by councils and fathers , and so passes to them . which are a plain indication , he thought the same which others of his religion have said , that the doctrine of transubstantiation could not be proved from scripture alone . but when he proves the divinity of christ , he goes through nine several classes of arguments , six of which are wholly out of scripture ; the first out of both testaments , the second only out of the old , the third out of the new , the fourth from the names of the true god given to christ , the fifth from the divine attributes , eternity , immensity , power , wisdome , goodness , majesty ; the sixth from the proper works of god , creation , conservation , salvation , fore-knowing of secret things , and working miracles . all which he largely insists upon with great strength and clearness , so that if he may be judge , the motives to believe the divinity of christ , are far from being the same in scripture , that there are to believe transubstantiation . § . . . but supposing they are mistaken in the belief of this doctrine , this doth not excuse them from idolatry . to his quotation out of dr. taylors liberty of prophecying to the contrary , i shall return him the opinion of their own divines . the testimony of coster is sufficiently known to this purpose , who saith the same thing in effect that i had done , if the doctrine of transubstantiation be not true , the idolatry of the heathens in worshipping some golden or silver statute , or any images of their gods , or the laplanders worshipping a red cloth , or the aegyptians an animal , is more excusable than of christians that worship a bit of bread . and our country-man bishop fisher confesseth , that if there be nothing but bread in the eucharist , they are all idolaters . but none is so fit to answer dr. taylor as himself , after almost twenty years time to consider more throughly of those things , and then he confesseth , that the weapons he used for their defence were but wooden daggers , though the best he could meet with ; and if that be the best they have to say for themselves which he hath produced for them , their probabilities will be soon out-ballanced by one scripture-testimony urg'd by protestants ; and thou shalt not worship any graven images will outweigh all the best and fairest imaginations of their church : and elsewhere , that the second commandment is so plain , so easie , so peremptory against all the making and worshipping any image or likeness of any thing , that besides that every man naturally would understand all such to be forbidden , it is so expressed , that upon supposition that god intend to forbid it wholly , it could not more plainly have been expressed . by which it is clear he did not think that idolatry did lye only in forsaking the true god , and giving divine worship to a creature or an idol , that is to an imaginary god , who hath no foundation in essence or existence ; which is the reason he brings why they are excused from idolatry in adoration of the host , because the object of their adoration is the true god ; for he not only makes the second command to be peremptory and positive against the worship of the true god , by an image , but elsewhere plainly determins this to be idolatry ; and saith that an image then becomes an idol , when divine worship is given to it ; and that , to worship false gods , or to give divine honour to an image which is not god is all one kind of formal idolatry . if therefore they cannot be excused from idolatry who worship the true god by an image ; though the object of their adoration be right and they think the manner of it to be lawful ; neither can they who worship christ upon the account of transubstantiation in the sacrament ; for not only the superstition of an undue object , but of a prohibited manner or way of worship is idolatry ; even according to the opinion of him whom he produces as a testimony of their innocency . § . . . that if a mistake in this case will excuse them , it would excuse the grossest idolatry in the world . st. austin speaks of some , who said that christ was the sun , and therefore worshipped the sun , i desire to know whether this were idolatry in them or no ? they had scripture to plead for it as plain as , this is my body , for he is not only called the sun of righteousness ; but the vulgar latin ( which they contend to be the only authentick version ) reads that place , psal. . . in sole posuit tabernaculum suum , he hath placed his tabernacle in the sun ; and that this is to be understood of christ , may be proved from the apostles applying the other words , their line is gone out through all the earth ; to the apostles preaching the gospel , rom. . . and the manichees did believe that christ had his residence partly in the sun and partly in the moon , and therefore they directed their prayers alwayes to the sun. let us now consider two persons equally perswaded , that the sun is now the tabernacle of christ , and that he is really present there , and dispenses all the comfortable influences of heat and light to the world , he being so often in scripture called the true light , joh. . . and another , that he is really present by transubstantiation in the sacrament . i would fain understand why the one should not be as free from idolatry as the other ? if it be said , that all those places which speak of christ as the sun , are to be understood metaphorically , that is the same thing we say to them concerning those words of christ , this is my body ; and if notwithstanding that , they are excused by believing otherwise ; so must the other person unavoidably be so too . it is to no purpose to alledge fathers and councils for the opinion more than for the other ; for the question is not concerning the probability of one mistake more than of the other ( although if they be strictly examined , the absurdities of transubstantiation are much greater ) but we suppose a mistake in both , and the question is whether such a mistake doth excuse from idolatry or no ? and we are not to enquire into the reasons of the mistake , but the influence it hath upon our actions . and then we are to understand why a mistake equally involuntary as to the real object of divine adoration may not excuse from idolatry , as well as to the wrong application of worship due to a real object of adoration ? i. e. whether a man giving adoration to what he believes to be god , which is not so in it self , be not as excusable , as believing a true object of adoration in general , but giving divine worship to that which is not it ? as whether the worshipping false gods , supposing them to be true , be not as venial a fault , as worshipping that for the true god which is not so ? as for instance , suppose the aegyptians worshipping the sun for god , and the israelites the golden calf , believing it was the true god which brought them out of the land of aegypt ? or let us take one of the inca's of peru , who believed by a tradition supposed infallible among them , that the sun was their father and the visible god , by which the invisible did govern the world ; and therefore they ought to give all external adoration to the sun , and internal only to the invisible deity ; upon what account shall these be charged with idolatry , if an involuntary mistake and firm belief that they worship the true god doth excuse from it ? nay the most stupid and senseless of all idolaters who worshipped the very images for gods ( which the wisest among them alwayes disclaimed , and pretended only such a relative worship as he pleads for ) were in truth the most excusable upon this ground ; for supposing that it be true which they believed , they did a very good thing ; and which every person else ought to do upon the same belief . which is the utmost can be said for the papists adoration of the host , supposing the doctrine of transubstantiation were as true , as it is false and absurd . § . . . as to invocation of saints , i found the chief answer given was this , that they did not attribute the same kind of excellency to saints , which they give to god ; but suppose only a middle sort of excellency between god and us , which they make the foundation of the worship which is given to them . and as to this my argument was thus framed , if the supposition of a middle excellency between god and us , be sufficient ground for formal invocation , then the heathens worship of their inferiour deities could be no idolatry , for they still pretended they did not give to them the worship proper to the supream god ; which is as much as is pretended by the devoutest papists in justification of the invocation of saints . to this he answers two wayes : . by shewing the disparity of the heathens worship from theirs in two things : . in the object . . in the manner of their worship . . the persons whom they worship , he saith , are such as are endowed with supernatural gifts of grace in this life , and glory in heaven , whose prayers by consequence are acceptable and available with god , but the supream deity of the heathens , is known to be jupiter , and their inferiour deities venus , mars , bacchus , vulcan , and the like rabble of devils as the scripture calls them ; and therefore there can be no consequence , that because the heathens were idolaters in the worship of these , though they pretended not to give them the worship proper to jupiter the supream god ; therefore the catholicks must be guilty of idolatry in desiring the servants of the true god to pray for them to him . . as to the manner of worship , he saith , if any of them did attain , as the platonists , to the knowledge of the true god , yet as st. paul sayes , they did not glorifie him as god , but changed his glory into an image made like to corruptible man , adoring and offering sacrifice due to god alone to the statues themselves , or the inferiour deities they supposed to dwell or assist in them ; which st. austin upon the . psalm proves to be devils , or evil angels , because they required sacrifice to be offered to them , and would be worshipped as gods. but all he means by formal invocation , he saith is , desiring or praying the saints to pray for them . and if this were idolatry , we must not desire the prayers of a just man , even in this life , because this formal invocation will be to make him an inferiour deity . . he answers , that the same calumny was cast upon the catholicks in st. austins time , and is answered by him , and his answer will serve as well now as then , in his twentieth book against faustus , chap. . who himself held formal invocation a part of the worship due to saints , as is evident from the prayer he made to st. cyprian after his martyrdom , l. . de bapt . c. donat. c. . and calvin confesseth ( he saith ) it was the custom at that time to say , holy mary , or holy peter pray for us . this is his full answer : in which are two things to be examined . . whether the disparity between the heathen worship and theirs be so great as to excuse them from idolatry ? . whether the answer given by st. austin doth vindicate them : and whether invocation of saints as it is now practised in the church of rome , were allowed or in use then ? § . . . concerning the disparity . . as to the object of worship . far be it from me to parallel the holy angels and saints , with the impure deities of the heathens ; as to their excellencies : but the true state of the question is , whether the heathens were only too blame in making an ill choice of those they worshipped , as in worshipping iupiter , and venus , and vulcan , who are supposed to have been wicked wretches ; or else in giving divine worship to any besides the true god ? and if their idolatry lay not only in the former , but the latter , then this disparity cannot excuse them . there were two questions in debate between the primitive fathers of the christian church , and the heathen idolaters ; the first was more general , and in thesi , whether it were lawful to give divine worship to any besides the true and supream god ? the second was more particular , and in hypothesi , whether on supposition that were lawful , those whom the heathens worshipped were fit objects for such adoration ? in this latter they triumph over them with a great deal of eloquence , laying open the impiety of those whom they commonly worshipped ; but withal knowing that the wiser among them had another notion of these deities under the common names than the vulgar had ; they therefore charge them with idolatry in giving the worship proper to god to any creature , let it be never so excellent and serviceable to mankind , and that it was the property of the christian religion to give divine worship to none but god himself and his son christ iesus , without ever making any distinctions of absolute and relative worship which they must have been driven to , in case they had given religious worship to any besides . thus iustin martyr tells the heathen emperours , to whom he makes his apology for the christians , that christ did perswade men to worship god alone , by saying , this is the great commandment , thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve ; and that we are to render to caesar the things that are caesars , and to god the things that are gods : on which account , saith he , we worship god alone , and give cheerful service in all other things to you . theophilus bishop of antioch ( who lived in the second century after christ , as well as iustin ) giving an account why the christians refused giving adoration to the emperours which was then used ( not that adoration which was proper to the supream god , for none can be so senseless to imagine they required that ; but such kind of religious worship as they gave to the images of their gods ) saith , that as the king or emperour suffers none under him to be called by his name ; and that it is not lawful to give it to any but himself : so neither is it to worship any but god alone : and elsewhere saith , that the divine law doth not only forbid the worship of idols , but of the elements , the sun , and moon , and stars , or any thing else in heaven , in earth , in sea , or fountains , or rivers , but we ought only to worship the true god and maker of all things , in the holiness of our hearts and integrity of our minds . to the same purpose speak clemens alexandrinus , tertullian , cyprian , origen , athenagoras , lactantius , arnobius , who all agree , that religious worship is proper to the true god , and that no created thing is capable of it , on that very account because it is created ; it were easie to produce their testimonies , if it were requisite in so evident a matter as this is . if it be said , that all these testimonies are only against that idolatry which was then practised by the heathens . i answer , . their reasons equally extend to the giving divine worship to any created being whatsoever , so that either they argued weakly and unskilfully , or else it is as unlawful to give divine worship now to saints , as it was then to any creature . . i would willingly understand why it should be more unlawful to worship god for his admirable wisdom , and power and goodness in the works of creation ; than in supposed saints ? i. e. why i may not as well honour god by giving worship to the sun , as to ignatius loyola , or st. francis , or any other late canonized saint ? i am sure the sun is a certain monument of gods goodness , wisdom , and power , and i cannot be mistaken therein , but i can never be certain of the holiness of those persons i am to give divine worship to . for all that i can know , ignatius loyola was a great hypocrite ; but i am sure that the sun is none ; but that he shines and communicates perpetual influences to the huge advantage of the world . however i know the best of men have their corruptions , and to what degree it is impossible for others to understand ; but i am certain the spots in the sun are no moral impurities , nor displeasing to god. and philip nerius could not be mistaken in the shining of the sun , although he might be in the shining of ignatius his face , which yet is thought so considerable a thing , that it is read in the lessons appointed for ignatius in the roman breviary . . on what account should the christians refuse giving all external signs of religious worship to the heathen emperours , if they thought it lawful to be given to any sort of men ? why might not they worship the statues of kings and princes , as well as others do those of rebels and traytors ? i mean , why might not the image of king henry the second have the same reverence shewn to it , that the shrine of thomas becket had ? unless it be more meritorious to disobey a prince , than to give him reverence . might not the primitive christians have much easier defended themselves in giving those outward signs of worship to the images of emperours , than others can do in the worship they give to saints ? for they might have pleaded , that external signs are to be interpreted by the intention of the person who uses them , that they intended no more by it , but the highest degree of civil honour on the account of the authority they possessed ? or if this would not serve , might not they have said , that kings and princes were gods vicegerents , and represented him to the world , and that in giving divine worship to them , they gave it to god ; and that their absolute , ultimate , and terminative worship was upon god ; and only a relative , inferior , and transient worship was given to them , and all this might be better justified by st. basils rule , that the honour of the image passes to the prototype ; for he there pleads for the worship of christ , because he is one with the father being his image , as the image of a king is called the king , and hath the same honour given to it ; for the honour of the image passeth to the thing represented . and as christ hath the advantage above all , by being gods natural image ; so princes above saints , in that they represent god to the world , which the other do not . but notwithstanding all these pleas , the primitive christians were so punctual in observing that command of worshipping god alone , that they rather chose to lose their lives and suffer martyrdom , than be in the least guilty of giving any divine worship to a creature . . they absolutely deny any religious worship to be given to the most excellent created beings , and therefore did not only condemn the idolatry then in use , but that which hath obtained in the roman church : supposing all the persons worshipped therein to have been real saints . for that , we are to consider that all the heathens were not such great fools , as some men make them to excuse themselves : if the wiser men were contented to let the people worship the poetical gods , having their minds possessed with those idea's of them , which they had taken up by their education ; yet they understood them only as allegories , ( as some make the image of st. christopher and st. george in the church of rome to be no other ) and they had temples erected to the greatest vertues , to piety , faith , concord , iustice , chastity , clemency , &c. and others to the greatest benefactors to mankind , which was the only ground they pleaded for giving worship to them : but still they acknowledged one supream god , not iupiter of creet , but the father of gods and men ; only they said , this supream god being of so high a nature , and there being other intermediate beings between him and men whose office they conceived , it was to carry the prayers of men to god , and to bring down help from him to them ; they thought it very fitting to address their solemn supplications to them . here now was the very same case in debate , ( altering only the names of things ) which is between us and the church of rome ; and if ever they speak home to our case , they must do upon this point . and so they do , but very little to their comfort . § . . these things i shall largely prove if farther occasion be given , at present i shall only insist on two things . . that they did condemn all such kind of worship , supposing their principle true . . that they did not only condemn it in those spirits which the heathens worshipped , but in good angels themselves . . they did condemn the worship , supposing their principle true . for this i shall produce now but few authorities , but such as are full as to the heathens pretences , and the christians answers . the first is of origen in his answer to celsus , who objects against the christians , the unreasonableness of forsaking the worship of inferiour deities , because no man can serve two masters ; which , saith he , is a seditious principle , and arises from attributing our passions to god ; but he that honours them as subjects to the supream god , cannot offend him who is the lord of them . to which origen answers , that the scripture doth indeed stile god , the god of gods , and lord of lords , but withal saith , that to us , there is but one god the father , of whom are all things , and one lord iesus christ , by whom are all things , and we by him ; which the apostle speaks , saith he , of himself and all others whose minds were raised up to him , who is the god of gods , and lord of lords ; and his mind ascends up to the supream god , who worships him inseparably and indivisibly by his son , who alone conducts us to the father . therefore seeing there are many gods and many lords , we endeavour by all means , not only to carry our minds above those things on earth , which are worshipped by the heathen for gods , but above those whom the scripture calls gods , by which it is plain by the drift of his discourse , he means the angels . and celsus afterwards yielding , that it is not lawful to give honour to any , but to whom the supream doth communicate it : origen desires proof from them , that god hath communicated this honour to their gods , heroes and daemons , and that it did not arise from the ignorance and folly of mankind , who thereby fell off from him who ought properly to be worshipped . but he proves , from miracles and prophecies and precepts , than this honour was given to christ , that they who honour the father , should honour the son also : and that was all which celsus had to object against the christians , that they did not keep to their own rule of worshipping god alone ; for they thought god was not dishonoured by the honour they gave to christ ; and on the same account he thought , they might give it to inferiour deities . if there had been then any suspicion of religious worship given to saints or angels by the christians , when had there been a more proper season to object it ? no man of the meanest capacity would have omitted a matter so necessary to his business , much less so inquisitive and malicious an enemy as celsus was . and the account origen gives of the worship the christians attribute to the son of god is , because it is said , i and my father are one ; and the father in me , and i in him ; which cannot be said of any created beings . it is true afterwards he saith , that if celsus had spoken of the true ministers of god , such as gabriel , michael and all the angels and archangels , he acknowledges , that by explaining the notion of worship or respect , and the actions of those who give it , somewhat more might be said on that subject . but he utterly denyes , that our prayers are to be offered to any but christ alone , and that any word which is proper only to religious worship , is to be attributed to the angels themselves . for he saith elsewhere , although the angels be called gods in scripture , yet we are not to worship them with divine worship : and lest any should think , that offering up our prayers or invocations to them were not excluded by this ; he immediately explains himself ; for , saith he , all our supplications , prayers , intercessions and thanksgivings are to be offered only to god over all ; by that high priest who is greater than all the angels , the living word and god. and afterwards saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we ought not to pray to them , who pray for us ; for they would rather themselves send us to that god to whom they pray , than have us pray to them , or divide our supplications between god and them . this he speaks indeed of the sun , and moon , and stars , but upon the supposition that they are intellectual beings , and do pray to god for us . and again he saith , we ought to pray only to the god over all , and his only son the first born of every creature , who as our high priest , offers our prayers to his god and our god. and because celsus argues much for worship to be given to daemans , because to them is committed the care of terrestrial affairs : to this origen answers , by denying those whom he calis daemons , to have any administration of the affairs of christians ; but supposing we knew they were not daemons , but angels , which had the management of these things committed to them , yet then we dare not give them that honour which is due to god , for neither would god have it so , nor they themselves ; but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we celebrate their praise and happiness , to whom god hath entrusted such great things . but celsus yet further urges , that according to the doctrine of the aegyptians every part of a man hath a particular daemon or ethereal god , and every one of these being invocated , heals the diseases of the parts proper to themselves . why then may they not justly invocate them , if they love health better than sickness , and happiness than misery . if one of the church of rome had been to answer celsus , he must have told him , that the thing was rational which he said , only they were out in their names ; for instead of chnumen , chnaachumen , cnat , sicat , biu , eru , &c. they should have chosen raphael for travelling and against diseases , apollonia against the tooth-ach , sebastian and roch against the plague , st. nicholas against tempests , michael and st. george against enemies ; and others in like cases . for so serrarius tells us , that experience and tradition hath discovered the particular help of these in such cases ; if they be particularly invocated . but origen gives a shorter answer , that these things do arise from a distrust of the sufficiency of that incommunicable worship we give to god alone , as though he were not able to protect every one that serves him from all snares : and that far more effectual cures have been wrought by the name of iesus than all their daemons . and how much better do those who are christians who slight all these things and commit themselves to god over all through his son iesus christ , and of him do desire the help and protection of his holy angels ? i shall conclude his testimony with that excellent saying of his . our care ought to be to please one god over all , and to make him propitious to us , by piety and all vertue , but if we would have others under god to be pleased with us too , we ought to consider , that as the shadow follows the body , so god being pleased , all his friends whether angels , souls or spirits will be so too , and not only so , but are ready to help them , and pray to god for them . but not the least foundation in his discourse for our invocation of them . the author of the commentaries under the name of st. ambrose , of the same age with him , as appears by several passages in him : saith , that the idolaters made use of this miserable excuse for themselves , that by those inferiour deities they worshipped they went to god himself , as we go to the king by his courtiers . but , saith he , is any man so mad , or regardless of himself , to give the honour due to the king to any of his courtiers , which if a man does he is condemned for treason ? and yet they think themselves not guilty who , give the honour due to gods name to a creature , and forsaking god adore his fellow servants , as though any thing greater than that were reserved for god himself . but therefore we go to a king by his officers and servants , because the king is but a man , who knows not of himself whom to imploy in his publick affairs , ( without being recommended by others : ) but with god it is otherwise , for nothing is hid from him , he knows the deserts of every one , and therefore we need no one to recommend us to his favour ; a devout mind is enough . was this now all the quarrel the christians had with the heathens that they worshipped iupiter and venus and vulcan ? do they not expresly deny the giving gods worship to any creature ? and do they not as plainly affirm that men do it when they invocate their fellow servants to be intercessors with god for them ? and that it is no less a guilt of idolatry in this case , than it is in giving the honour due to a prince to any of his servants ? st. austin gives this account of the principles of the heathen worship , that there were three sorts of beings to be considered , purely divine , and mortal , and a middle sort between them which participated of both , and that the entercourse between gods and men was by the means of those intermediate beings , who carried the prayers of men up to god , and brought down the blessings they prayed for to men . against these indeed st. austin disputes first , by shewing that those spirits which they worshipped were evil spirits , and that there was no reason to imagine that god had a greater entercourse with them , than with penitent sinners , but withall he addes , that this kind of worship doth proceed upon the supposition that the gods cannot know the necessities and prayers of men , but by the intervention of those spirits : but if our minds can be known without their help , there is no need of their mediation . and afterwards saith , that those who are christians do believe that we need not many , but one mediatour , and that such a one by whose participation we are made happy , i. e. the word of god not made but by whom all things were made : and he hath shewed that to the attaining blessedness we ought not to seek many mediators , by whom we are to make our degrees of approach to god , because god himself by partaking our nature , hath shewn us the shortest way of our partaking his divinity . neither doth he delivering us from mortality and misery carry us so to immortal and blessed angels , that by participating with them , we should become blessed and immortal ; but to that trinity by whose participation the angels themselves are blessed . and concludes that book with this saying , that immortal and blessed spirits however they are called , which are made and created ; are no mediatours to bring miserable mortals , to blessedness and immortality . and it would be ridiculous here to distinguish mediators of redemption and intercession ; for all that they attributed to their goods spirits was only intercession ; and christ being made a mediatour , effectual for the end he designed , there could be no necessity of any intercessours besides him . and st. austin there addes , that the design of his following book , is to prove that those good spirits which are immortal and blessed , which they thought ought to be worshipped with sacred rites and sacrifices , whatsoever they are and howsoever called , would not have any one worshipped by such religious worship , ( i.e. by sacred rites as well as sacrifices ) but only one god by whom they were created , and by whose participation they are made happy . § . . by which the second thing i proposed will appear to be true , viz. that they did not only condemn giving this worship to the spirits which the heathen worshipped but to good angels too . for st. paul in the general doth condemn the worship of angels ; if he had meant only evil angels he would have expressed it so , especially if st. austins observation be true , that the evil spirits are by their names in scripture distinguished from the good ; if he had meant any particular superstition used in the worship of angels , he would not have used such terms which condemn all worship of them as superstitious ; if he had meant only the worship of angels so as to exclude christ , he would have intimated that the fault , lay in excluding christ , and not in the bare worship of angels ; but by the series of his discourse it appears that those who set up other mediators besides christ do not hold the head , i. e. do not adhere to christ alone , as him whom god hath appointed as our mediatour only . whether this were practised by iewes , philosophers , or hereticks is all one to us , since the practice is condemned wherever it is found . theodoret saith , they were the iewes who perswaded men to worship angels , because the law was delivered by angels ; which practice he saith , continued a long time in phrygia and pisidia , and therefore the synod of laodicea doth forbid praying to angels ; and to this day the oratories of st. michael are among them , they therefore thought it a piece of humility , since god could not be seen , nor touched , nor comprehended by us , to obtain the favour of god , by the intercession of angels . no wonder baronius is so much displeased with theodoret for this interpretation ; for he very fairly tells us what he condemns ( and st. paul too ) was the practice of their church ; and those oratories were set up by catholicks and not by hereticks . but whether as to the lawfulness of this worship , baronius or st. paul , whether as to the ancient practice of the church , baronius or theodoret deserves more to be believed , i leave any one to judge . and yet theodoret is not alone in this , for irenaeus denies any invocations of angels to be in use among christians , if he had meant only evil angels it seems very strange he should use the name generally given to good , and alwayes indifferent to both . origen expresly denies any offering up of prayers to them to be practised by christians or reasonable to be done , and produces this very place of the apostle against it . the council of laodicea we see by theodoret is very severe against all who worship angels and charges them with idolatry in so doing ; if they had only meant the heathen idolaters as baronius contends , yet by that it appears that the heathens were condemned for worshipping those whom they believed to be good spirits ; but these are only shifts to escape by , and such which would not have come into the mind of any man if he did not first fear the force of that canon against the practice of the roman church . for why the heathen idolatry should at that time be called secret or hidden as it is in that canon , is not easie to be thought upon ; but very easily intelligible according to theodorets interpretation because of the clandestine meetings of those who worshipped angels , and therein separated themselves from the christian churches . st. austin discourses purposely on this subject ( as is intimated before ) whether god or the blessed spirits are willing we should perform any sacred offices or sacrifices to them ; or consecrate our selves or any thing of ours to them by any religious rites , which he denies : for this , saith he , is the worship proper to the deity , called by him in one word latria , which he thinks more proper to express divine worship , as distinct from the honour and service we give to men ( which is plainly his meaning there ) than any one word greek or latine besides . and this word he saith is proper to the deity as such , because he elsewhere tells us , the difference between 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is this , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the service of god properly as god ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the service of god as lord. § . . i know very well by what arts all these testimonies are endeavoured to be evaded , viz. by saying , that these are intended against the gentiles idolatry who worshipped those spirits as gods , and offered sacrifices to them ; but this cannot hold as to the doctrine or practice of the roman church , who deny them to be gods , and assert that the worship by sacrifice is proper only to god : but such devices as these are can never satisfie an impartial mind . for ( . ) they do expresly deny that invocation or prayer is to be made to them ; for so origen and theodoret speak expresly , that men are not to pray to angels ; and any one that reads st. austin will find that he makes solemn invocation to be as proper to god as sacrifice is . ( . ) on what account should it be unlawful to sacrifice to saints or angels if it be lawful to invocate them ? may not one be relative and transient as well as the other ? nay the heathen in st. austin argued very well , that sacrifices being meer external things might more properly belong to the inferiour deities , but the more invisible the deity was , the more invisible the sacrifices were to be , and the greater and better the deity , the sacrifice was to be still proportionable : and can any man in his senses think that a meer outward sacrifice is more acceptable to god , than the devotion of our heart is ? and wherein can we better express that to god , than in offering up our prayers to him ? so that in all reason the duty of prayer ought to be reserved as more proper to god than any external sacrifice , and those who did appropriate sacrifice to god did comprehend prayer as the most spiritual and acceptable part of it : so st. austin speaking of the sacrifice due to god , makes our heart the altar , and christ our priest , and our prayers and praises to be offered up to god by a fervent charity ; and any work which is therefore done that thereby we may be united to god in a holy communion with him , in order to our happiness , to be a true sacrifice ; and let any man judge whether this description do not so naturally agree to prayer , as if it had been only intended for it . besides it is observable that sacrifices of old were solemn rites of supplication ; and calling upon the name of the lord where altars were erected is the main thing spoken of , thence the temple ( though the place of sacrifice ) is called the house of prayer ; and where god slights sacrifices , he requires prayer as much more acceptable to him . it seems then very strange that sacrifice alone as distinguished from prayer should be that latria that is proper to god. ( . ) upon the same account that the heathen did give divine honour to their inferiour deities , those in the roman church do so to angels and saints . for the heathens made a difference in their sacrifices to the supreme god , and their inferiour deities and their heroes : so that if the putting any difference in the way of religious worship doth excuse the one , it must do the other also . did the heathen use solemn ceremonies of making any capable of divine worship ? so does the roman church . did they set up their images in publick places of worship and there kneel before them and invocate those represented by them ? so does the roman church . did they consecrate . temples and erect altars to them , and keep festivals and burn incense before them ? so does the roman church . lastly , did they offer up sacrifices in those temples to the honour of their lesser deities and heroes ? so does the roman church . for bellarmin reckoning up the honours belonging to canonized saints besides those before mentioned , reckons up this as one , that the sacrifices of the eucharist , and of lauds and prayers are publickly offered to god for their honour . i would fain understand what the sacrificing to one for the honour of another means ? to offer sacrifice to one for another is an intelligible thing , but to sacrifice to one for the honour of another is a thing beyond my reach , if that sacrifice does not belong to him for whose honour it is offered ; and if the sacrifice do belong to him , i wonder at the scrupulosity of those who dare not say they sacrifice to him as well . for what is sacrificing to god , but sacrificing to his honour , or doing such an act of religion with a design to honour god by it : but when men offer a sacrifice , but not to honour god by it , but the b. virgin , or any saints or angels , how can that sacrifice belong to any other but those whose honour is designed by it ? it being then the opinion and practice of the roman church , that sacrifices are to be offered for the honour of saints or angels , it is evident they have reserved no part of divine worship peculiar to god himself , any more than the heathen did . ( . ) there can be no material difference , that the heathen called those they worshipped gods , but they do not so in the roman church . for st. austin saith there was scarce any difference between the heathen and them about the name , whether angels might be called gods or no : for he thinks that they are called so in scripture , as well as origen : but the question was about the thing , whether they were to be worshipped as gods or no , i. e. by giving any part of religious worship to them ? which they utterly deny . and were i in the communion of the roman church i should much less scruple calling canonized saints , or angels by the names of gods , than giving them the worship of invocation , or the honour of sacrifices : but in so doing they are not only condemned by plain scripture , and reason , but by those of the primitive church who writ against the heathen idolatry : which was the thing to be shewed . § . . . another disparity is insisted on by him , which is , as to the manner of worship . and as to this , he saith , all that they understand by formal invocation , is desiring or praying those iust persons , who are in glory in heaven to pray for us ; and if the catholicks be guilty of idolatry in this , we must not desire the prayers of a just man even in this life , because this formal invocation will be to make him an inferiour deitie . to shew the palpable weakness of this answer , i shall prove these two things . . that those in the church of rome do allow and practise another kind of formal invocation from what he asserts . . that supposing this were all , it would not excuse them , and that it is of a very different nature from desiring the prayers of just men for us in this life . . that they do allow and practise another kind of formal invocation from what he asserts . he might very well say , he did understand well what i meant by formal invocation , when he makes this to be the meaning of it ; for never any person before him imagined that sense of it ; and that term of formal invocation was purposely chosen by me , to distinguish it from the rhetorical apostrophe's of some of the greek fathers , the poetical flourishes , of damasus , prudentius , and paulinus ; from general wishes that the saints would pray for us . of which are some instances , in good authors ; from assemblies at the monuments of martyrs , which were usual in ancient times ; and that which i thought any man would understand by it was that which is constantly practised in the roman church . viz. in places and times purposely appointed for divine and religious worship , with all the same external signes of devotion which we use to god himself , to offer up our prayers to saints , or angels to help us in our necessities as well as to pray to god for us . the former part none can be ignorant of , that have but so much as heard of the devotion of the church of rome ; all the difficulty lies in that , whether they pray to them to help their necessities as well as pray for them ? and so many forms of prayer allowed and practised in their church have been so often objected to them , wherein these things are manifest , that i cannot but wonder this should be denyed . do they believe , we never look into their breviaries , rosaries , houres , and other books of devotion , wherein to this day such prayers are to be found ? do they think we never heard of the offices of the b. virgin , or our ladies psalter a blasphemous book , never yet censured , wherein the psalmes , in their highest strains of prayer to god are applyed to the v. mary ? i have known my self intelligent persons of their church who commit their souls to the v. maries protection every day , as we do to almighty gods : and such who thought they understood the doctrine and practice of their church as well as others . but , madam , these are mysteries not to be known till they have their proselytes safe and fast enough , then by degrees they let them know , what is to be done , when they have given away all liberty of judging for themselves . then it is no matter what they are commanded or expected to do , they must do as others do , or else their sincerity is questioned , and they are thought hereticks in their hearts , whatever they profess . i shall not insist upon any ancient breviaries , or obsolete forms , or private devotions , which yet they are accountable for , till they do condemn them . i need no more than the present roman breviary restored according to the council of trent , and authorized by three several popes . in the feast of assumption of the blessed virgin , as though it were not enough in the antiphonae to say , hail blessed virgin , thou alone hast destroyed all heresies in the world ; but lest this should be interpreted of doing it by her son , a formal invocation of her follows , vouchsafe to let me praise thee o holy virgin ; and give me strength against thy enemies . and in the hymn frequently used in her office , and particularly that day , she is not only called the gate of heaven , but she is intreated to loose the bonds of the guilty , to give light to the blind , and to drive away our evils , and to shew her self to be a mother ; ( or as it is in the mass-book at paris . iure matris impera redemptori , as thou art a mother , command the redeemer ) in a word , they pray to her therein for purity of life , and a safe conduct to heaven . but lest the hymns should be thought only poetical , in the feast of s. maria ad nives ; aug. . a formal prayer is made to her , to help the miserable , to strengthen the weak , to comfort those that mourn , and that all who celebrate her holy festivity may feel her assistance . by which we may understand the meaning of that solemn hymn used in her office , wherein she is called the mother of mercy and clemency , and is prayed to protect us from our enemies , and to receive us in the hour of death . is all this only praying to her to pray for us ? what could be more said to almighty god or his son iesus christ ? nor is this devotion only to the blessed virgin , but we shall see it alike in that to angels and saints ; in the antiphona upon the apparition of michael the archangel may . he is prayed to come to the help of the people of god. and in the feast of the guardian angels recommended to all catholicks by paul the fifth in the last words of the breviary , they are prayed to defend them in war , that they may not perish in gods terrible judgement . in the hymn to the holy apostles they are prayed to command the guilty to be loosed from their guilt , to heal unsound minds , and to increase their vertues , that when christ shall come , they may be partakers of eternal glory . these may suffice for a present taste of the sincerity of such persons who say , that in the church of rome they do nothing but pray to the saints to pray for them . and it is a very pitiful shift that bellarmin is put to , whereby to excuse such prayers as these , that indeed as to the words themselves they do imply more than praying to them to pray for us ; but the sense of the words , he saith , is no more . but whence i pray must the people take the sense of such prayers as these are , if not from the signification of the words ? if this were all , why in all this time that these prayers have been complained of , hath not their sense been better expressed ? have not their breviaries been often reviewed , if this had not been their meaning , why have they not been expunged all this while ? suppose then that any persons in the roman church ( as no doubt most do ) take their sense from the words , and do not force it upon them , and they pray according to the form prescribed ; do they well or ill in it ? if they do ill in it , their church is guilty of intolerable negligence in not preventing it ; if they do well , then their church allows of more than praying to angels and saints to pray for them . bellarmins instances of the apostles in scripture being said to save men , do shew what shifts a bad cause will put a man to : for will any man in his wits say the case is the same in ordinary speech and in prayer ? is it all one , for a man to say , that his staff helped him in his going , and to fall down upon his knees to pray to his staff to help him ? god did use the apostles as instruments on earth to promote the salvation of mankind , but may we therefore pray to them now in heaven to save us ? may we not truly say , that the sun enlightens the world , but may we therefore pray to the sun to enlighten us ? no , the sun is but gods instrument , and our addresses must be in prayer to the supream lord over all . but to take his own explication of praying to them for these things : i. e. praying to them that they would pray to god for them , as we desire one another to pray : would not that man be condemned of gross idolatry , or prodigious folly , who instead of desiring his friends to pray to god for the pardon of his sins , and the assistance of divine grace , should say to them , i pray you pardon my sins , and assist me with the grace of god ? what would st. paul have said to such men that should have asked such things of him , who yet saith , that he was an instrument of saving some ? § . . . supposing this were all that were done and allowed in the roman church , yet this would not excuse them : for their practice is very different in their invocation of saints , from desiring our brethren on earth to pray for us . and i cannot but wonder , how any men of common sense can suffer themselves to be imposed upon so easily in this matter . for is there really no difference in st. pauls desiring his brethren to pray for him , as he often did ; and a mans falling down upon his knees with all the solemnity of devotion he uses to god himself , to st. paul to desire him to pray for him , when he was present upon earth , and did certainly know what he desired of him ? suppose in the midst of the solemn devotions of the church where st. peter or st. paul had been present , the letanies of the church had been then as they are now ; and after they had prayed to the persons of the holy trinity , the people should with the same postures and expression of devotion have immediately turned themselves to the apostles , and cryed only peter and paul pray for us ; do you think , this would have been acceptable to them ? no doubt st. peter would have been less pleased with this , than with cornelius , only falling down before him , and yet then he bid him stand up , i my self also am a man. they who impute this only to his modesty , will not allow him to carry it to heaven with him ; for they suppose him to be very well pleased with that honour in heaven , which he refused on earth . and st. paul would have rent his garments and cryed out , as he did to the men of lystra , why do ye these things ; we also are men of like passions with you ? they would not receive any honour that might in the least seem to incroach upon the divine honour , and yet they might upon better grounds have done it to them on earth , than now in heaven , because they were then sure they heard them , which now they can never be . and would it not be a senseless thing to desire some excellent person in the indies , when we are at our solemn devotion to pray for us , because it is possible god may at the same time reveal our minds to him ? i would willingly be informed , if we had assurance of the sanctity of a person in this life , as great as they have in the church of rome of those they invocate ; whether there would be any evil at all in publick places of worship , and at the time used for the service of god , to set such a person up in some higher place of the church , to burn incense before him , to prostrate themselves with hands and eyes lifted up to him , if at last they pretended , that all that time they only prayed to him , to pray for them ? and certainly a good man is much more the image of god , and deserves more reverence than all the artificial images of saints , or of god himself . if they will condemn this , they may conceive , that supposing , they only prayed to saints in their devotions to pray for them , this would not excuse them : for they do it in those places , at such times , and in such a manner as highly incroaches upon the worship and service due to god alone . § . . . i now come to consider , whether the answer given by st. austin will vindicate them , and whether invocation of saints , as it is now practised in the church of rome were allowed , or in use then ? here he tells us , that faustus the manichean calumniates the catholicks ( the word is st. austins he saith , and we do not quarrel with the word , but that they are not such catholicks as st. austin speaks of ) because they honoured the memories or shrines of martyrs , charged them to have turned the idols into martyrs , whom they worshipped said he with like vows . to shew how very far what st. austin saith , is from justifying the present practices of the roman church , we need no more than barely to represent what st. austin affirms , and what he denyes . he affirms , that it was the custom of the christians in his time to have their religious assemblies at the sepulchres or memories of the martyrs , where the place it self would raise their affections , and quicken their love towards the martyrs and towards god ; but he utterly denyes , that any religious worship was performed to the martyrs : for neither was any sacrifice offered up to any of them , nor any other part of religious worship : for thereupon he shews ( which is very conveniently left out in the citation ) that not only sacrifice was refused by saints and angels , but any other religious honour which is due to god himself , as the angel forbad st. iohn to fall down and worship him . all the worship therefore , he saith , that they give to saints is , that of love and society , and of the same kind which we give to holy men in this life , who are ready to suffer for the truth of the gospel . but that the worship of invocation is expresly excluded by st. austin , appears by what himself saith on a like occasion ; where he shews the difference between the gentiles worship and theirs : they ( saith he ) build temples , erect altars , appoint priests , and offer sacrifices ; but we erect no temples to martyrs as to gods , but memories as to dead men whose spirits live with god ; we raise no altars on which to sacrifice to martyrs , but to one god , the god of martyrs as well as ours , at which as men of god who have overcome the world by confessing him , they are named in their place and order , but are not invocated by the priest who sacrifices . and elsewhere saith , whatever the christians do at the memories of the martyrs , is for ornaments to those memories , not as any sacred rites or sacrifices belonging to the dead as gods : we therefore do not worship our martyrs with divine honours , nor with the faults of men , as the gentiles did their gods. which gave occasion to lud. vives in his notes on that chapter to say , that many christians in his time ( what sort of catholicks those were , it is easie to guess , but to be sure , none of st. austins ) did no otherwise worship saints , than they did god himself ; neither could he see in many things any difference between the opinion they had of saints , and what the gentiles had of their gods. i cannot understand then how st. austins answer should justifie that which he condemns : he denyes that there was an invocation of saints , but only a commemoration of them ; the church of rome pleads for any invocation of them , and condemns all those who deny it . so that his answer is very far from clearing the roman church in the practice of invocation , and the objection we make against it , that it doth parallel the heathen idolatry ; for it grants , it would do so , if they gave to the saints the worship due to god , of which he makes invocation to be a part . but after all this , can we imagine , that he should practise himself contrary to his own doctrine ? yes , saith he , he made a prayer to st. cyprian , let blessed cyprian therefore help us in our prayers . but is there no difference to be made between such an apostrophe to a person in ones writing and solemn supplication to him with all the so●emnity of devotion in the duties of religious worship ? if i should now say , let st. austin now help me in his prayers , while i am defending his constant opinion , that invocation is proper to god alone , would they take this for renouncing the protestant doctrine , and embracing that of the church of rome ? i doubt they would not think that i escaped the anathema of the council of trent for all this . the question between us , is not how far such wishes rather than prayers were thought allowable being uttered occasionally , as st. austin doth this to st. cyprian , but whether solemn invocation of saints in the duties of religious worship , as it is now practised in the roman church , were ever practised in st. austins time , and this we utterly deny . we do not say , that they did not then believe , that the saints in heaven did pray for them , and that some of them did express their wishes , that they would pray particularly for them , we do not say , that some superstitions did not creep in after the anniversary meetings at the sepulchres of the martyrs grew in request ; for st. austin himself saith , that what they taught was one thing , and what they did bear with was another , speaking of the customes used at those solemnities : but here we stand , and fix our foot against all opposition whatsoever , that there was no such doctrine or practice allowed in the church at that time , as is owned and approved at this day in the church of rome . but from st. austin we are sent to calvin , whose authority ( though never owned as infallible by us ) we need not fear in this point : and i cannot but wonder , if he saw the words in calvin or bellarmin , that he would produce them . for calvin doth there say , that the council of carthage did forbid praying to saints , lest the publick prayers should be corrupted by such kind of addresses , holy peter pray for us . if st. austin were present in this council , as my adversary saith he was , i wonder what advantage it will be to him from calvins saying , that the council did condemn and forbid those prayers ; which were in use by some of the people . but it seems , he takes the peoples part against the council and st. austin too ; and thinks it enough for them to follow the practices condemned by councils and fathers ; which we are sure they do , and are glad to find so ingenuous a confession of it . he may as well the next time bring st. austins testimony for worshipping martyrs and images , because he saith , he knew many who adored sepulchres and pictures : and for the worship of angels , because he saith , he had heard of many , who had tryed to go to god by praying to angels , and were thought worthy to fall into delusions . § . . but the strangest effort of all the rest , is what he hath reserved to the last place , viz. that the charge of idolatry against them must be vain and groundless , because if i be pressed close , i shall deny any one of these negative points to be divine truths ; viz. that honour is not to be given to the images of christ and his saints , that what appears to be bread in the eucharist is not the body of christ , that it is not lawful to invocate the saints to pray for us . but the answer to this is so easie , that it will not require much time to dispatch it . for i do assert it to be an article of my faith , that god alone is to be worshipped with divine and religious worship : and he that cannot hence infer , that no created being is to be so worshipped , hath the name of reasonable creature given him to no purpose . what need we make negative articles of faith , where the affirmative do necessarily imply them ? if i believe that the scripture is my only rule of faith , as i most firmly do ; will any man that considers what he saith , require me to make negative articles of faith , that the pope is not , tradition is not , councils are not , a private spirit is not ? for all these things are necessarily implyed therein . and so for all particular doctrines rejected by us upon this principle , we do not make them negative points of faith , but we therefore refuse the belief of them , because not contained in our only rule of faith : on this account we reject the popes supremacy , transubstantiation , infalibility of the present church in delivering points of faith , purgatory , and other fopperies imposed upon the belief of christians . so that the short resolution of our faith is this , that we ought to believe nothing as an article of faith , but what god hath revealed , and that the compleat revelation of gods will to us is contained in the bible ; and the resolution of our worship , is into this principle , that god alone is to be worshipped with divine and religious worship , and therefore whether they be saints or angels , sun , moon and stars , whether the elements of a sacrament , or of the world , whether crosses , and reliques , or woods and fountains , or any sort of images ; in a word , no creature whatsoever is to be worshipped with religious worship , because that is proper to god alone . and if this principle will excuse them from idolatry . i desire him to make the best of it . and if he gives no more satisfactory answer hereafter , than he hath already done , the greatest charity i can use to those of that church , is to wish them repentance , which i most heartily do . chap. iii. of the hindrance of a good life and devotion in the roman church . the doctrines of the roman church prejudicial to piety . the sacrament of pennance , as taught among them , destroys the necessity of a good life . the doctrine of purgatory takes away the care of it , as appears by the true stating it , and comparing that doctrine with protestants . how easie it is , according to them , for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven . purgatory dreadful to none but poor and friendless . sincerity of devotion hindred by prayers in an unknown tongue . the great absurdity of it manifested . the effects of our ancestors devotion had been as great , if they had said their prayers in english. the language of prayer proved to be no indifferent thing , from st. pauls arguments . no universal consent for prayers in an unknown tongue , by the confession of their own writers . of their doctrine of the efficacy of sacraments , that it takes away all necessity of devotion in the minds of the receivers . this complained of by cassander and arnaud , but proved against them to be the doctrine of the roman church , by the canons of the council of trent . the great easiness of getting grace by their sacraments . of their discouraging the reading the scriptures . a standing rule of devotion necessary . none so fit to give it , as god himself : this done by him in the scriptures . all persons therefore concerned to read them . the arguments against reading the scriptures , would have held against the publishing them in a language known to the people . the dangers as great then , as ever have been since . the greatest prudence of the roman church is wholly to forbid the scriptures ; being acknowledged by their wisest men , to be so contrary to their interest . the confession of the cardinals at bononia to that purpose . the avowed practice of the roman church herein directly contrary to that of the primitive : although the reasons were as great then from the danger of heresies . this confessed by their own writers . § . . . the second reason i gave , why persons run so great a hazard of their salvation in the communion of the roman church was , because that church is guilty of so great corruption of the christian religion , by opinions and practices which are very apt to hinder a good life , which is necessary to salvation . but , . this necessity i said , was taken off by their making the sacrament of pennance joyned with contrition , sufficient for salvation . here he saith , that protestants do make contrition alone , which is less , sufficient for salvation , and our church allowing confession and absolution ( which make the sacrament of pennance ) in case of trouble of conscience , they being added to contrition , cannot make it of a malignant nature . to this i answer : that contrition alone is not by us made sufficient for salvation . for we believe , that as no man can be saved without true repentance , so that true repentance doth not lye meerly in contrition for sins . for godly sorrow in scripture , is said , to work repentance to salvation , not to be repented of ; and it cannot be the cause and effect both together . repentance in scripture implyes a forsaking of sin , ( as it were very easie to prove , if it be thought necessary ) and without this we know not what ground any man hath to hope for the pardon of it , although he confess it , and be absolved a thousand times over ; and have remorse in his mind for it , when he doth confess it . and therefore i had cause to say , that they of the church of rome destroy the necessity of a good life , when they declare a man to be in a state of salvation , if he hath a bare contrition for his sins , and confess them to the priest , and be absolved by him . for to what end should a man put himself to the trouble of mortifying his passions and forsaking his sins , if he commits them again , he knows a present remedy , toties quoties ; it is but confessing with sorrow , and upon absolution he is as whole , as if he had not sinned . and is it possible to imagine a doctrine that more effectually overthrows the necessity of a good life , than this doth ? i cannot but think , if this doctrine were true , all the precepts of holiness in the christian religion were insignificant things : but this is a doctrine fitted to make all that are bad , and willing to continue so , to be their proselytes ; when so cheap and easie a way of salvation is believed by them : especially if we enquire into the explication of this doctrine among the doctors of that church . i cannot better express this , than in the words of bishop taylor , whom he deservedly calls an eminent leading man among the protestants , where after he hath mentioned their doctrines about contrition , the sequel of all ( he saith ) is this , that if a man live a wicked life for sixty or eighty years together , yet if in the article of his death , sooner than which god ( say they ) hath not commanded him to repent , by being a little sorrowful for his sins , then resolving for the present that he will do so no more ; and though this sorrow hath in it no love of god , but only a fear of hell , and a hope that god will pardon him ; this , if the priest absolves him , doth instantly pass him into a state of salvation . the priest with two fingers and a thumb can do his work for him ; only he must be greatly prepared and disposed to receive it : greatly we say according to the sense of the roman church ; for he must be attrite , or it were better , he were contrite ; one act of grief , a little one , and that not for one sin more than for another , and this at the end of a wicked long life , at the time of our death will make all sure . upon these terms , it is a wonder that all wicked men in the world are not papists , where they may live so merrily , and dye so securely , and are out of all danger , unless peradventure they dye very suddenly , which because so very few do , the venture is esteemed nothing , and it is a thousand to one on the sinners side . but we dare not flatter men so into eternal misery ; we cannot but declare to them the necessity of a sincere repentance and holy life in order to salvation : and that we cannot absolve those , whom god hath declared he will not absolve . indeed for the satisfaction of truly penitent sinners , our church approves of applying the promises of pardon in scripture to the particular case of those persons ; which is that we mean by absolution . but if they pretend they can absolve whether god will or no ; we must leave god and them to dispute the point . § . . . i said the care of a good life was taken off among them , by supposing an expiation of sin ( by the prayers of the living ) after death . no , saith he , it is rather apt to increase it , because of the temporal pains the sinner is to sustain after death , if there be not a perfect expiation of sin in this life by works of pennance ; and although he be ascertained by faith , that he may be holpen by the charitable suffrages of the faithful living , yet this is no more encouragement to him to sin , than it would be to a spend-thrift to run into debt and to be cast into prison , because he knows he may be relieved by the charity of his friends . if he were sure there were no prison for him , that would be an encouragement indeed to play the spend-thrift , and this he saith , is the case of the protestants in denyal of purgatory . one would think by this answer , we protestants had a very pleasant religion , and that we held nothing could affright a sinner from continuing in his sins , because we destroy purgatory : but we had thought there had been something more dreadful in the torments of hell , than in the flames of purgatory . but if our plain doctrine , that every impenitent sinner must expect no less than eternal vengeance in another world , will not prevail upon men to leave their sins , and lead a good life , can we ●magine a groundless fiction of purgatory should ever do it ? especially , considering the true stating of the doctrine of purgatory among them , by which we shall easily discern what obligation it layes upon men to holiness of life . there are ( say they ) two sorts of sins which men are guilty of , some of which are in their own nature venial , and so do not deserve eternal punishment , and for these a general and vertual repentance is sufficient : but there are other which they call mortal sins , which have a debt and obligation to eternal punishment belonging to them ; but this eternal punishment is changed into temporal , by the sacrament of pennance ; but still this temporal punishment , must be undergone either in this life , or that to come ; if a man do not satisfie in this life , and cannot get help enough out of the stock of the church to do it for him ; there is no remedy , to purgatory he must go : and if he be not helped by his friends on earth , god knows how long he may stay there ; but then he is to blame that he took no more care for his soul when he lived , if not by a holy life , yet by leaving no more to those whose office it should be , to procure him a deliverance thence . judge now madam , if this be not a very frightful doctrine , especially to those , who are poor and friendless . but in case a man be rich enough to provide masses to be said for his soul , and that he hath a good stock of indulgences before hand , for some thousands of years , he may make a pretty tolerable shift in purgatory , especially in these last ages of the world ; wherein it is probable , it may not be near so long to the day of judgement ( when the final sentence is to be pronounced ) as he hath got years of indulgences already . i pray what need a person be afraid of , that lives a very bad life , according to these principles ? must he suffer for his original sin ? no , that , guilt and punishment , and all is clear done away in baptism . must he suffer for his venial sins ? that were strange , if he had never any general repentance for them . need he be afraid of the dreadful sentence of the day of judgement , go ye cursed into everlasting flames ? he is a fool indeed , that by a little present contrition and confession , will not obtain absolution from a priest , and in a trice the eternal flames are extinguished , and only some temporal punishment succeeds in the room of them . but it would seem somewhat hard to a voluptuous man however to be put to severe pennances ; is there no remedy in this case ? yes , there is a stock in the church , and if he will not procure help for himself thence by some plenary indulgences , if he will not bear it here , he must in another world . what then ? is he past all hope of remedy there ? that is according to his purse and friends . how easie is it for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of god ? but we have no such easie way of escaping the miseries of another life : we dare not tell men they may be relieved there by masses and sacrifices , and i know not what : our doctrine is plain and agreeable to the most obvious and easie sense of the gospel , if men be good here , they shall be happy afterwards ; if they be bad , and continue so , they shall be certainly miserable , and unavoidably so . but for those who are neither good nor bad , ( if any such can be ) neither sincere nor hypocrites , neither penitent nor impenitent , we leave them to take care of them : our saviour hath only declared , that those who are good , sincere , and penitent , shall be happy ; those who are otherwise , must be miserable : if they have found out some wayes for them to escape notwithstanding , at their peril be it , who relye upon them . but for others , we understand no more how punishment in another life should remain after the guilt of sin is pardoned , than how a shadow should continue , when the body is gone : for punishment follows guilt , as the shadow the body . and if pardon of sin signifies any thing , it is taking away the punishment we were obnoxious to by reason of sin . but how that man should be said to have his debt forgiven , who is cast into prison for it , only whereas he might have lain and rotted there , his creditor tells him , he shall endure the same misery , but he shall escape at last , is a thing no man would believe , who suffered in such a case . he might indeed say , that he did not exercise the utmost rigour of iustice , but would hardly be brought to magnifie the infinite clemency and kindness of his creditor . but we that desire to understand the way of salvation as it is delivered by our lord iesus christ , and to be saved in that way , cannot for our hearts understand any more by his doctrine , but that men shall be saved , if they believe and obey his doctrine , and shall be condemned , if they do it not . we find nothing of half saving and half damning men , such as the state of purgatory is believed to be in the church of rome . for the pains of person therein are said to be as great as the damned in hell , and yet all this while god is their friend , and they are sure to be saved . they had need in such a case call in the help of their friends on earth , if god be so ill a friend in heaven . and can he not believe , that it is a far greater encouragement to a spend-thrift to be told indeed of a dreadful prison , but such as if he leaves but money behind him to imploy his friends in begging his pardon , he shall be surely delivered ; than to be assured if he continues his folly , there will be no redemption or hopes of deliverance , when he is once cast into it . i dare appeal to any one who can but understand what we speak of , whether of these two , is the more probable way of reclaiming a man from riotous courses ? but that which is beyond this , is , that the one is most certainly true , the other but a meer figment of the brains of men , who have contrived a way to bring wicked men to heaven at last , although somewhat the farther way about , and it must cost them dear , for their friends to help them through . § . . . after i had shewed how much the necessity and care of a good life were obstructed by the principles of the roman church , i proceeded to shew , how the sincerity of devotion was hindered among them by several particulars . . by prayers in a language which many understand not . to this he answers , if i speak of private prayers , all catholicks are taught to say them in their mother tongue : if of the publick prayers of the church , he understands not why it may not be done with as much sincerity of devotion , the people joyning their intention and particular prayers with the priest , as their embassadour to god , as if they understood him ; he is sure the effects of a sincere devotion for nine hundred years together , which this manner of worship produced in this nation , were much different from those we have seen since the reducing the publick liturgy into english : for which he instances in building and endowing churches , colledges , religious houses , and the conversion of several nations by english missionaries . but this , he saith , is a matter of discipline , and not to be regulated by the fancies of private men , but the judgement of the church : and withal is confessed by some protestants , that most sects of christians have the scriptures , liturgies and rituals in a tongue unknown but to the learned ; and therefore according to st. austin , it is insolent madness to dispute that which is frequented by the whole church through the world . for our more distinct proceeding in answer to this , three things are to be considered : . whether praying in a known or unknown tongue , do more conduce to devotion ? . whether this whole matter be a thing left in the power of the church to determine ? . whether prayers in an unknown tongue , be universally received in all other parts of the christian world . . whether of these conduce more to devotion , is our main enquiry . and if praying in an unknown tongue doth so , i wonder he tells us , that all catholicks are taught to say them in their mother-tongue : why so i pray ? is it that by understanding what they speak , their minds might be more attentive , and their affections more raised in the desires of the things they pray for ? and will not the same arguments more hold for publick prayer , wherein all the congregation are to joyn together ? so that their private prayers condemn their publick , unless latin in the church be of greater force , than uttered in a closet . but can it enter into the minds of any men , who consider what the end of meeting together to pray is , that such an end should as much or more be attained , where people know not what they say , as where they do ? if all the business of christian worship were only to patter over a few words ( as if there were no difference between prayers and charms ) what he saith , were to some purpose : but that is so dishonourable a thing to christian religion , that it is hard to say , whether they have more corrupted the doctrine or the devotion of the christian church . if i saw a company of indians met together with their priest among them , using many antick gestures and mimical postures , and speaking many words which the people muttered after him , but understood not what they said ▪ i might probably suspect they were conjuring , but should hardly believe them , if they called that praying . i could not but enquire of them , what they meant by praying ? if they told me , saying so many hard words , which they understood not , i had done with them , but should shrewdly suspect the knavery of their priests . if they told me , by praying they meant , expressing their desires of the things they stood in need of to the god they worshipped , i could not but ask of them , whether it were not necessary for them to know what it was they asked , or how could they desire they knew not what ? or whether the god they worshipped , understood only that one tongue , and so they were fain to speak to him , in his own language ? this i confess , were a sufficient reason , and in that case the people were to be pittied , if they could not learn that tongue themselves . but supposing all languages equally known to him we make our addresses to , why should not the people use that , which they understand themselves ? are their prayers like counterfeit iewels , that the less they understand them , the better they like them ? it may justly give men some suspicion , that there are not fair dealings , where so little light is allowed to judge by : and that devotion commended most , which ignorance is the mother of . we think it as unreasonable to desire the people to say amen to prayers they know not the meaning of , as for men to set their hands to petitions without reading what is contained in them . it is a great chance if they do not mistake to their own great prejudice , and do what they repent of afterwards . we declare , that our meeting together to worship god , is to joyn together our hearty prayers , which the more the people understand , the better their minds are satisfied in what they desire , and the more fervent will their supplications be . if it be enough for some to understand them , it may as well be enough for some to pray them ; if their prayers who understand them , prevail for those who do not , then it is no matter at all whether they be present or no , unless the efficacy of the others prayers be confined within the walls where they meet . and if their prayers be most prevalent who understand most , then it were ten times better , if all the people understood what they prayed for : and it must necessarily follow , that praying in an unknown tongue , is a great obstructer of the devotion of the people , and that which hinders the efficacy of their prayers . if it be enough for the people to be present , and to pray their own private prayers there in publick , to what end is there any publick liturgy at all ? why should not all of them be at their private prayers together ? why should the priest with his iargon of hard words interrupt them ? for it can be no more to them who know not what he saith ; and why may they not as well say their private prayers at the chiming of bells , as at the words of a priest , for they understand both alike , and both seem to sound as such wise people will have them . but he tells us , the effects of this devotion were admirable in the charitable and pious works of our ancestors , who used this way so many ages together . i pray madam , ask him , whether he really thinks , they would have done none of those things , if they had said their prayers in english ? if they would not , i do much admire the force of the latin tongue : if they would , then that was not the cause , and so these things do not prove what they were intended for . and so tenterden steeple was not the cause of goodwin sands . we do not go about to disparage our ancestors , we bless god for the good they did ; but do not think that doth oblige us to think them infallible in their opinions , or without fault in all their practices : but our true ancestors in religion ▪ are christ and his apostles and the primitive church , and all these are yielded to be of our side , by the most zealous adversaries we have ; and give us leave to think their examples ought to have more force with us , than any other whatsoever . we pretend not to be wiser than they were , nor to know what is more expedient for devotion than they ; we are content to be condemned for error with those who are allowed to be infallible , and to want devotion , where we follow the examples of the most holy persons the world ever had . if the practice of the primitive church in this point were not given us for the first six hundred years and more , it were an easie matter to evince it by express testimonies : but that is not the thing insisted on , but that this is a matter of discipline , and the church hath the power to determine it in one age as well as another . § . . which is the next thing to be considered . here i shall desire but two principles to resolve this by . . that the churches power is only to edification and not to destruction ; for this was as much as the apostles challenged to themselves , and i hope none dare challenge more : but this is a principle of natural reason , that no power in a society ought to be extended beyond the benefit of it , or to contradict the end or design of it . . that the apostles were the most competent judges of what made for the edification of the church ; and what they declared did tend to that end , no succeeding persons ought to condemn as contrary to it . this depends upon that infallible spirit which the apostles had , and the mighty care in them of the churches good , which we cannot think any since them can exceed them in . these things being supposed , we are only to consider , whether the apostle hath not delivered his sense in our present subject , viz. that prayers in an unknown tongue are contrary to the edification of the church ? it seems somewhat hard to us to be put to prove a matter so evident from st. pauls discourse , cor. . and we could not imagine , any would go about to reconcile prayers in an unknown tongue , to cor. . but those who think they can reconcile the worship of images to the second commandment . the abuse st. paul corrects with so much sharpness in the church of corinth , was an impertinent use of the gift of tongues ; such i mean as did not tend to the edification of the church : as for instance , one man made a long harangue in hebrew , and pleased himself mightily in the sound of the words , when not a person there , it may be , understood a word that he said , another of a sudden begins a hymn in syriack or chaldee , another falls a praying in ethiopick , but all this while , no man interprets what these several men said : to what purpose is all this , saith the apostle , only for by-standers , to think they were children or mad men : could they imagine god gave them these gifts of tongues , to make uncouth and insignificant sounds with , where the people were met together for the worship of god ? if they were so much tickled with the noise , they might make that at home , and not in the church of god , where all things ought to be done to edification . for they met together as a company of reasonable men to receive some benefit that might be common to them all ; and therefore the gift of tongues in a society of christians could be of no use without an interpreter . but lest all this should seem to be spoken only of instruction of the people , and not of prayer to god , and that the case were not alike in both these , he adds , if i pray in an unknown tongue , my spirit prayeth , but my understanding is unfruitful . i. e. i may exercise my gift , but it is to no use at all in the church . how so ? one of the roman church might have told st. paul , when i see him pray , and know what he is doing , may i not joyn my intention of praying with his , as our embassadour , and pray my own private prayers at the same time that he doth ? i know the substance of what he designs to pray for ; and although i do not know his meaning , god knows mine : and therefore i can see no hinderance of devotion at all in this , that when one begins a prayer in an unknown tongue ; all the people fall upon their knees , and pray too : this is the plain answer they must give st. paul who justifies prayers in an unknown tongue . but we are content with st. pauls judgement in this case , and the reason of it , that the acts belonging to the worship of god in the church ought to be of so common concernment , that all may have a share in them , and receive the benefit by them : or else they were far better hold their peace . it is very impertinent to say , that the apostle speaks only of extraordinary gifts , and not of the settled and ordinary devotions of the church . for the case is the same , where the language is not understood , whether it be spoken by a miracle or not : and the apostle layes down a general rule from this particular case , that all things must be done to edifying , which it appears he judges the use of an unknown language not to be . and if after all this , it be in the churches power to reverse the apostles decree as to praying in an unknown language , they may use the very same power , as to all other offices of religion , and may command preaching to be in a tongue as unknown as praying ; that so the people may meet together , and pray , and hear sermons , and understand never a word , for their great edification . unless among us god should put it into their hearts to speak english , whether they would or no , as was once said by an ignorant person on the like occasion . if all that is intended in the prayers of the people , be only an intention to pray , whatever the words be , abracadabra might serve to pray with , as well as ave maria , and the old womans saying of it , avi mari gratia plinam dams ticum , beneditta tu in mulabs yeth benedictus frictus frentris tui , sweet iesus , amen ; was as effectual a prayer if she meant it so , as could be uttered by the most skilful priest. § . . . but the universal consent of the christian church is pleaded for this practice , only protestants excepted , and therefore it is insolent madness in them to oppose it , as st. austin saith : but we had however rather follow st. paul , who saith it were madness to practise it . but i assure you , madam , we are not to take all things for granted which are told us by them concerning the opinions and practices of the eastern churches : ( as i may in time discover ) but in this ; he saith ▪ our own protestant authors of the bible of many languages lond. a. d. . do confess that in most of the sects of the christians , they have not only the scriptures : but also the liturgies and rituals in a tongue unknown but to the learned : from which he concludes this to be an universal practice both in the primitive greek and latin churches , and in these latter sects of eastern christians . it were a very pleasant enquiry , how in the primitive greek and latin churches the service could be in an unknown language , when greek and latin were the mother tongues of those churches ? doth he think they did not understand their own mother tongues ? how many of their own writers have confessed , that in the primitive churches all publick offices of religion were performed in the proper language of every countrey , which in express words is affirmed by origen against celsus : and some of the church of rome have been so ingenuous to confess , it were much better that custome were restored again . so cassander affirms of cajetan , and that being reproved for it , he said , he learned this ) doctrine from st. paul , cor. . and the title of the twenty eighth chapter of cassander his liturgicks is , that the antients read the canonical prayer and the consecration of the eucharist , so as the people did understand it and say amen . lyra saith , that all publick offices of religion were in the primitive church performed in the vulgar tongue . so that it was not upon the account of any sanctity in the greek or latin , that they were more used , but because they were more generally understood . on which account pope innocent the third gave strict command , that where people of different languages did inhabit , care should be taken to provide men able to administer sacraments , and instruct them in their several tongues ; which decree of his is inserted in the canon law ; and was not intended out of honour to the greek and latin tongues only , but the advantage of the people . so likewise iohn the eighth yielded to the prince of moravia , to have their liturgy in the sclavonian tongue , because st. paul saith , let every tongue praise the lord : which is the reason given by the pope in his letter extant in baronius , and not meerly on the account of a present necessity for want of priests who could read latin , as bellarmin conjectures , for he appoints it should be first read in the sclavonian tongue . if this were then a catholick practice , these popes were hugely to blame to give way to the breach of it . and walafridus strabo saith in his time , among the scythians , the divine offices were performed in the german tongue ; which was common to them and the germans . but our own protestant writers , he saith , own this to be in use in the most sects of christians . i have endeavoured to find this confession in the preface cited by him , but i cannot meet with it , and the learned bishop who writ it , understood these things , better than to write so . it is true he saith ( not in the preface , but proleg . . n. . ) that the syriack tongue is the tongue of the learned among the christians throughout the east , as appears by the liturgies and divine offices , which are almost every where performed in this language , although it be the mother-tongue now only to a few about mount libanus : but any one who enquires into a catholick practice , must not meerly give an account of the most eastern christians of whom he here speaks . for there are many considerable churches besides these , which do to this day use their own language in their liturgies , as their own writers attest : but i need not go about to prove this , since bellarmin confesseth , that the armenians , aethiopians , aegyptians , russians and others do it , but he saith , he is no more moved by these , than by the practice of protestants : but we cannot but be moved so far by it , as thereby to see that the practice of the church of rome is no more a catholick practice , than it is founded either on scripture or reason . § . . . i said the sincerity of devotion was obstructed by making the efficacy of sacraments to depend on the bare administration whether our minds be prepared for them or not . this , he saith , he had rather look upon as a mistake , than a calumny , having never read any council wherein this doctrine is defined , and as to the sacrament of pennance ( which he supposeth i chiefly mean ) the council of trent hath determined it to be a calumny for any to say , that according to their doctrine it doth confer grace without the good motion of the receiver . madam , i either expected he should have understood the doctrine of his own party better , or been more ingenuous in confessing it . for my quarrel had no particular respect to the sacrament of pennance , more than to any other sacrament of theirs ; and if i can make it appear , that it is their doctrine , that the efficacy of sacraments doth not depend upon the preparation of the receiver , but the bare administration , or the external work done , i need not add much to shew how much this doth obstruct the sincerity of devotion . it had been an opinion long received in the schools , although with different wayes of explication , that the sacraments of the new law differed from those of the old in this , that the efficacy of those of the old law in conferring grace , did depend upon what they called opus operantis , i. e. the faith and devotion of the receiver of them ; but that the sacraments of the new law did confer grace ex opere operato , i. e. by the thing it self , without any dependence therein upon the internal motion or preparation of mind in him that did partake of them . this doctrine began to be in a particular manner applyed to the mass , because that contained christ in a more especial way than any other sacrament , thence it was believed and asserted , that it did produce saving effects , as remission of sins and true grace , although we should suppose an impossible thing , that no man in the world had any true grace ; as baptism takes away original sin , and gives grace to the infant baptized , whatever the sins of men are . these are the expressions of one of their profound doctors . and therefore they distinguished the efficacy of the work done , not barely from the dignity of the priest , and the merit of the receiver , but from the devotion and preparation of mind which the receiver came with . which bellarmin himself cannot deny , only two things he saith to take off the odium of it . one is , that they do not wholly exclude them , but only from the efficacy of sacraments ; which , he saith , is effectually proved by the case of infants , that it doth not depend upon any quality of the receiver : the other , that though the mass as a sacrament , may not profit those who are not duly prepared , yet as a sacrifice it may . by which these things are evident : . that the efficacy of the sacraments in conferring grace , doth not at all depend upon the qualification of the receiver . . that although upon other accounts some dispositions are required in adult persons to receive the benefit of them as sacraments , yet the effect of the mass as a sacrifice , is not at all hindered by want of them . if it were a thing possible , i would willingly understand what they mean by sacraments conferring grace ex opere operato ( which are not only the express terms of the council of trent , but an anathema is denounced against any one who denyes it . ) for the manner of it is declared by themselves to be unintelligible , and no wonder , for they suppose grace to be contained in the sacrament ( and it is defined with an anathema by the council of trent ) and by the sacrament of it self it is conveyed into the heart of a man ; but whether it be contained as in an univocal cause , as in an instrument , or as in a sign ; whether it be conferred by the sacraments as physical , or as moral causes , whether by a power inherent in the sacraments themselves ; or a power assistent concurring with the sacraments ; whether it be conveyed as physick in a cup , or as heat to water by a red hot iron , or as healing to the person who touched the hemm of our saviours garment ; whether they produce only a next disposition to grace , or not the grace it self , but the union of grace with the soul , or ( which is the most common opinion ) that physical action whereby grace is produced which doth truly , really and physically depend upon the sacraments ( meaning thereby the external action of administring them ) these are looked on as great riddles among them , and so they ought to be ; but these things , say they , need not be determined , nor the manner of the thing be understood , no more than those who were miraculously healed , did the manner of the cure ; a very proper instance , if the matter of fact were as evident in one , as it is the other . but if i should say , that the wearing a cap of a certain figure would certainly convey wit and understanding into a man , and the meer putting it on was enough to produce the effect : and a person should tell me it was an unintelligible thing , were it enough think you , as bellarmin doth in this case , to run to other mysteries of faith and nature which are as hard as that ? by this consequence no man ought to be charged with believing absurd and unreasonable things , and the trinity and resurrection shall serve to justifie the fables of the alcoran as well as the doctrine of transubstantiation and the efficacy of the sacraments ex opere operato . we could easily dispense with the barbarous terms and ungrammaticalness of them , if there were any thing under them , that were capable of being understood ; but that is not the greatest quarrel i have with this doctrine ; for i say , still notwithstanding all the tricks and arts which have been used to palliate it , it doth obstruct the sincerity of devotion , by making the exercise of it by the preparation of our minds for the use of sacraments to be unnecessary . for if grace be effectually conferred by the force of the bare external action , which is acknowledged by them all , what need can there be of a due preparation of mind by the exercise of faith , prayer , repentance , &c. in order to the receiving the benefit of them ? yes , say they , the internal disposition of the mind is necessary to remove impediments , and to make a subject capable of receiving it : as driness in wood to make it burn : but what do they mean by this internal disposition of mind ? the exercise of the graces and duties i mentioned ? by no means : but that there be no mortal sin unconfessed , that there be no actual opposition in the will to the sacrament , as for instance , if a man when he is going to be baptized , resolves with himself that he will not be baptized ; or while he is baptizing , that he will not believe in father , son and holy ghost ; nor renounce the devil and all his works . this indeed they say hinders the efficacy of sacraments , but not the bare want of devotion ; and if want of devotion doth not hinder grace being received , what arguments can men use to perswade persons to it ? who will undergo so strict an examination of himself , and endeavour to raise his mind to a due preparation for the participation of sacraments , if he knows before hand that he shall certainly receive grace by the sacraments without it ? and surely they will not say , but what doth obstruct the exercise of these things , doth very much hinder devotion . if men had a mind to banish it out of the world , they could never do it under a fairer pretence , than that grace , and consequently the effects of it may be obtained without it : and i do not question but this doctrine hath been one of the great causes of the corrupt lives of those who believe it ? from hence the trade of saying masses hath proved so gainful , and such multitudes of them have been procured for the benefit of particular persons , this being a much easier way of procuring grace and salvation , than fervent prayer , constant endeavours after a holy life , mortification , watchfulness and other things we make necessary to enjoy the benefit of what christ hath done and suffered for us . and these things have been complained of , by persons of their own communion who have had any zeal for devotion , and the practice of true goodness . cassander , although he denyes the doctrine of the efficacy of the sacraments without the devotion of the receiver , to be the received doctrine of the roman church , yet cannot deny , but such a pharisaical opinion ( as he calls it ) had possessed the minds of many of those who did celebrate masses , and were present at them : and that too just an occasion was given to those who upbraid them with that opinion , because of the multitude of masses which were celebrated by impure and wicked priests meerly for gain , at which those who are present , think they depart from them with a great deal of sanctity , although they never once resolve to change their lives , but return from thence immediately to their former sins . mons. arnauld in his book of frequent communion ( written upon that occasion ) confesseth , that some in the roman church by their doctrine and instructions given to persons did destroy all preparations as unnecessary to the partaking the benefits of the eucharist , and that the worst persons might come without fear to it . and that the most required as necessary by them , is only the sacrament of penance to recover grace by , which he saith , they reduce to bare confession ; and that this by them is not made necessary neither by the more probable opinion , but only being at that time free from the guilt of mortal sin . it is not to be denyed that mons ▪ arnauld hath proved sufficiently the other opinion to be most consonant to scripture and fathers , and the rules of a christian life ; but when that is granted , the other opinion is yet more agreeable to the doctrine of the roman church . for although cassander produce some particular testimonies against it of persons in that church ; yet we must appeal for the sense of their church , to the decrees of the council of trent ; which are so contrived , as not to condemn the grossest doctrine of the opus operatum . for when it doth determine , that whosoever shall say , that the sacraments do not confer grace ex opere operato shall be anathema , it cannot be interpreted according to the sense of cassander and those he mentions , that the efficacy of sacraments doth not depend upon the worth of the priest : for the twelfth canon relates to that , whosoever shall say , that the minister being in mortal sin , although he useth all the essentials to a sacrament , yet doth not celebrate a sacrament , let him be anathema . those reverend fathers were not sure so prodigal of their anathema's , to bestow two of them upon the same thing : their meaning then in the eighth canon must be distinct from the twelfth , and if it be so , the opus operatum cannot have respect to the worth of the priest , but the devotion of the receiver , and it is there opposed to the faith of the divine promise . this will appear more plain by the account given of it in the history of that council . after , they treated of condemning those , who deny sacraments do confer grace to him that putteth not a barr , or do not confess , that grace is contained in the sacraments , and conferred , not by vertue of faith , but ex opere operato , but coming to expound how it is contained , and their causality , every one did agree , that grace is gained by all those actions that excite devotion , which proceedeth not from the force of the work it self , but from the vertue of devotion , which is in the worker , and these are said in the schools to cause grace ex opere operantis . there are other actions which cause grace , not by the devotion of him that worketh , or him that receiveth the work , but by vertue of the work it self ; such are the christian sacraments , by which grace is received , so that there be no barr of mortal sin to exclude it , though there be not any devotion . so by the work of baptism , grace is given to the infant , whose mind is not moved towards it , and to one born a fool , because there is no impediment of sin . the sacrament of chrisme doth the like , and that of extream vnction , though the sick man hath lost his memory . but he that hath mortal sin , and doth persevere actually or habitually , cannot receive grace by reason of the contrariety , not because the sacrament hath not vertue to produce it ex opere operato , but because the receiver is not capable , being possessed with a contrary quality . i dare now appeal to the most indifferent judge , whether what i objected to them concerning the efficacy of sacraments , whether the minds of the receivers of them be prepared or no , were not so far from being a calum●y , that there is not so much as the least mistake in it : if the doctrine of the council of trent be embraced by them . and any one who shall consider their number of sacraments , and the admirable effects of every one of them , may very well wonder how any man among them should want grace , or have any devotion ? for grace being conferred by the sacraments at so many convenient seasons of his life , whether he hath any devotion or no , he is sure of grace , if he doth but partake of their sacraments , and need need not trouble himself much about devotion , since his work may be done without it . never any doctrine was certainly better contrived for the satisfaction of impenitent sinners than theirs is . our saviour seems very churlish and severe when he calls sinners to repentance , that they may be saved ; but they have found out a much easier and smoother passage , like that of a man in a boat , that may sleep all the while , and land safe at last . not so much as the use of reason is required for the effect of that blessed sacrament of extream vnction , by which like a ship for a long voyage , a person is pitched and calked for eternity . surely , it is the hardest thing that may be , for any one to want grace among them , if they do but suffer the vse of sacraments upon them , and they are the gentlest givers of it imaginable , for all they desire of their patients for grace , is only for them to lye still ; but if they should chance to be unruly , and kick away the priests , or their rites of chrisme , i know not then what may become of them . yet the church of rome hath been so indulgent in this case , that supposing men under a delirium , or wholly insensible , if before it be but probable they desired it , or gave any signs of contrition , it ought not to be omitted ; alwayes provided , that those who are mad do nothing against the reverence of the sacrament . that being secured , their work is done ; and if any sins have remained upon them ; they are taken off by vertue of this sacred vnction ; and being thus anointed like the athletae of old they are prepared to wrestle with all the powers of the air , who can then fasten no hold upon them . yet to be just to them , the roman ritual saith , that impenitent persons , and those who dye in mortal sin and excommunicate and unbaptized are to be denyed extream vnction . a hard case for those who dye in mortal sin ! for if they could but express any sign of contrition , by the motion of an eye or a finger , all were well enough ? and for the impenitent , we are not to imagine them so cruel to account any so , but such who refuse the sacrament of pennance ; the summ of it then is , if a man when he is like to live , and therefore to sin no longer , doth but probably express some signs of contrition , and doth not refuse the sacrament of pennance , if time and the condition of the patient permit the using it , then he is to have grace conferred on him by this last sacrament which he is sure to receive , although he be no more sensible what they are doing about him , than if he were dead already . so that upon the whole matter , i begin to wonder how any sort of men in the church of rome can be afraid of falling so low as purgatory : i had thought so much grace as is given them by every sacrament ( where there are so many , and some of them so often used ) might have served to carry one to heaven ; they receive a stock of grace in baptism , before they could think of it ; if they lose any in childhood , that is supplyed again by the sacrament of chrisme or confirmation ; if they fall into actual sins , and so lose it , it is but confessing to the priest and receiving absolution , and they are set up again with a new stock : and it is a hard case , if that be not increased by frequent masses , at every one of which he receives more ; and although priests want the comfortable grace that is to be received by the sacrament of matrimony , yet they may easily make it up by the number of masses : and to make all sure at last , the extream vnction very sweetly conveyes grace into them whether they be sensible or not . but all this while , what becomes of purgatory ? that is like to be left very desolate ; if the interest of that opinion were not greater , than the evidence for the sacraments conferring grace ex opere operato . let them seek to reconcile them if they can , it is sufficient for our purpose , that both of them tend to destroy the sincerity of devotion , and the necessity of a good life . § . . . i said the sincerity of devotion is much obstructed by discouraging tdiscourahe reading of the scriptures , which is our most certain rule of faith and life . to this he answers two wayes : . that their churches prudential dispensing the reading the scriptures to persons whom she judges fit and disposed for it , and not to such whom she judges in a condition to receive or do harm by it , is no discouraging the reading of them ; any more than a father may be said to discourage his child , because he will not put a knife or a sword into his hands , when he foresees he will do mischief with it to himself or others ; and the scriptures , he saith , are no other in the hands of one who doth not submit his judgement in the interpretation of it to that of the church ; the doing of which he makes the character of a meek and humble soul , and the contrary of an arrogant and presumptuous spirit . . that the ill consequences of permitting the promiscuous reading of scripture were complained of by henry the eighth , who was the first that gave way to it ; and if his judgement ought not to be followed in after times , let the dire effects of so many sects and fanaticisms as have risen in england from the reading of it , bear witness . for all heresies arise , saith st. austin , from misunderstanding the scriptures ; and therefore the scripture being left as among protestants to the private interpretation of every fanciful spirit , cannot be a most certain rule of faith and life . in which answer are three things to be discussed : . whether that prudential dispensing the scriptures as he calls it , be any hinderance to devotion or no ? . whether the reading of the scriptures be the cause of the numbers of sects and fanaticisms which have been in england ? . whether our opinion concerning the reading and interpreting scripture , doth hinder it from being a most certain rule of faith and life ? . whether that prudential dispensing the scriptures used in the church of rome , doth hinder devotion or no ? this prudential dispensing i suppose he means , the allowing no persons to read the scriptures in their own tongue , without licence under the hand of the bishop or inquisitor , by the advice of the priest or confessor concerning the persons fitness for it ; and whosoever presumes to do otherwise , is to be denyed absolution . for this is the express command in the fourth rule of the index published by order of the council of trent , and set forth by the authority of pius the fourth , and since by clement the eighth , and now lately inlarged by alexander the seventh . and whether this tends to the promoting or discouraging the sincerity of devotion will appear , by considering these things . . that it is agreed on both sides , that the scriptures do contain in them the unquestionable will of that god whom we are bound to serve . and it being the end of devotion ( as it ought to be of our lives ) to serve him ; what is there the mind of any one who sincerely desires to do it , can be more inquisitive after , or satisfied in , than the rules god himself hath given for his own service ? because it is so easie a matter for men to mistake in the wayes they choose to serve him in ; i see the world divided more scarce about any thing than this . some think god ought to be worshipped by offering up sacrifices to him of those things we receive from his bounty : others , that we ought to offer up none to him now , but our selves in a holy life and actions . some , that god is pleased by abstaining from flesh or any living creature ; and others , that he is much better pleased with eating fish than flesh , and that a full meal of one is at some times mortification and fasting ; and eating temperately of the other , is luxury and irreligion . some think , no sight more pleasing to god , than to see men lash and whip themselves for their sins , till the blood comes ; others that he is as well pleased at least , with hearty repentance , and sincere obedience without this . some , that frequent crossing themselves , going in pilgrimage to the images of saints , baptizing bells , being sprinckled with holy water , and buried in a monks habit , are great acts of devotion ; and others , that they are superstitious fooleries . some think that unless they make confession of their sins to a priest , they cannot be pardoned ; others , that sincere confession to god , is sufficient , and the other never necessary to the pardon of sin , though it may be sometimes useful to the ease of the sinner . some , that they honour god by setting up images of him , and worshipping them for his sake , by addressing themselves to saints and angels to be intercessors with him ; and others , that they cannot dishonour god more , than by these things . some , that they may pray for what they do not understand , as well as what they do ; others , that since men expect to be answered in their prayers , they ought to understand what they say in them . since these and other disputes are in the world , not barely between christians and those of other religions , but among christians themselves , what course should a person take , who desires to be satisfied ? for he finds the several parties divided about them . can any man imagine a better way , if it could be hoped for , than that god himself should interpose , and declare his own mind according to what way they ought to serve him ? and this is acknowledged to be done already by all christians in the scriptures ; and after all this , must not all persons concerned , be allowed to enquire into that which is owned to be the will of god ? or do they think that ordinary people , that understand not latin or greek , ought not to be concerned what becomes of their souls ? if they be and do in good earnest desire to know how to please god , and to serve him ; what directions will they give him ? if they tell him , they must do as they are bidden ; true , say they , if we were to worship you for gods , we would do as you bid us , for we think it fitting to serve god in his own way . but we would know , whether that god whom we serve , hath given us any rules for his worship or no ? yes , say the priests of the roman church , he hath done so , but it is not fit for you to see them . to what end , say the people then , were they given , if they may not be seen ? how shall we know whether we keep them or no , or will you take upon you the guilt of our sins in disobeying his will , since you will not let us know what it is ? this seems to be a very just and reasonable request , and i fear it will one day fall heavy upon those , who conceal that which they confess to be the will of god from the knowledge of the people . and it hath been ingenuously acknowledged by some in the roman church , that the people would never be kept to that way of devotion they are in there , if they were suffered to read the scriptures ; but the more shame the mean time for those who impose such things upon them under a pretence of devotion which are so repugnant to the will of god. but the same reason which hath made them leave out the second commandment in their offices of devotion , hath brought them to so severe a prohibition of reading the scriptures in a known language , but where themselves are already so secure of the persons that they dare to give way to it : and that is , lest their consciences should start and boggle at the breaking a command of god , when they pretended to serve him . § . . . that no objection can be now made against the peoples reading the scriptures , but would have held against the publishing them in a language to be understood by the people . for were the people less ignorant and heady , less presumptuous and opinionative then , than they are now ? was not there the same danger of mistaking their sense at that time ? was not the people of israel as refractory and disobedient as any have been since ? were they not as apt to quarrel with divine laws and the authority god had set up among them ? did not they fall into sects and divers opinions by misunderstanding the law ? yet were these reasons then thought sufficient for god not to make known his law to all the people ; but to commit it only to aaron and the priests for them prudentially to dispense it to them ? no ; so far from it , that strict care was taken to make the people understand it , particular commands given for this very end , and the law on purpose declared to be easie and intelligible , that they might not make its obscurity a pretence for their ignorance . was not this law given them as a rule to direct themselves by ? were not all sent to this to learn to govern their actions ? wherewithall shall a young man cleanse his wayes , by taking heed thereto according to thy word . is not this law said to convert the soul , and to make wise the simple ? and was that done by not understanding it ? was it not the delight , exercise , and continual meditation of those who were truly devout among them ? but how comes our case to be so much worse under christianity ? is the law of christ so much more difficult and obscure than the law of moses ? is not his sermon on the mount , wherein he delivers the rules of a christian life , as plain as any chapter in leviticus ? what doth the gospel teach men , but to be and to do good , to love all men , and to love god above all , to believe in christ and to obey his commands , to repent of sins past and to live no longer in them , and in short , so to live in this world as they hope to live with god in happiness hereafter ? and are these things so hard to be understood , that the people ought not to be made acquainted with them in their own language ? or is there any danger they should know them too well ? was ever the law of moses more perverted by false interpretations than in our saviours time by the scribes and pharisees ? why doth not he then take some other care for his own law to prevent this for the future , if that had been judged by him the proper way of cure ? but thereby we see the mistakes of the people are owing to their teachers , and there can be no means to prevent errours in the people but by stopping them at the fountain heads from whence they run down among them . for the common people might have had a better notion of religion , if their minds had not been corrupted by the traditions and glosses of the pharisees . therefore methinks they have not gone the wisest way to work in the church of rome ; instead of this prudential dispensing the scriptures , their only way had been to have destroyed them , as dioclesian their predecessour in this kind of prudence once designed . for let them assure themselves , they who understand greek and latin are the persons they have ten times more cause to fear than the common people . and considering the advantage they once had by the horrible ignorance of priests and people , it must be imputed only to the watchful eye of divine providence , that the scriptures ( being of so little use in the roman church ) have been preserved entire to our dayes . there had been no such means in the world to have prevented a reformation as this ; for they are not out when they take the scripture so much for their enemy , as appears by the force and restraint they put upon it , and the fear and jealousie they are in about it continually . if it had not been for this , would any one have compared the scriptures , in the hands of the common people as my adversary doth , to a sword in a mad mans hand ? is it of so destructive a nature , and framed for no other use than a sword is ? which nothing but discretion keeps a man from doing mischief by ; and all the way a man hath ( though never so meek and humble ) to defend himself by it , is by destroying his enemy with it , if he continues his assault . these expressions do not argue any kindness to the scripture , nor an apprehension of any great good comes to the world by it ; but that really men might have been more at ease and fewer differences in religion had happened , if all the copies of the bible had been lost assoon as the pope had placed himself in his infallible chair . this design was once attempted , as i shall shew afterwards , but failed of success : and i know not how far the principles of this prudence may carry them , if ever such a season should fall into their hands again ; having found so much trouble to them from the scriptures and so little benefit by them , their church being once owned as infallible . for i would fain know whether the scripture hath not done more mischief according to them in the hands of the reformers , than it can be supposed to do in the hands of the common people . if it must be a sword in a mad mans hand , whether the more strength and cunning such a one hath , he be not capable of doing so much the more mischief by it ? and if it were possible to get it out of such a mans hands , whether it were not the highest prudence , and care of the publick safety to do it ? it can be then nothing but the impossibility of the thing , which makes them suffer the scripture to be in the hands of any who are capable of doing mischief by it ; and the more mischief they may do , the more desirable and prudential it is to take it from them . but all men see none are so capable of doing mischief thereby , as men of the greatest wit and learning , and that have the fairest appearance of piety to the world : the consequence then of this doctrine is , if pursued to the true design of it , that the scripture should be kept if possible out of the hands of the most subtle , learned and pious men above all others , if they be not true to the interests of the roman church ? it is but a meer shew to pretend only to keep the people in order , ( for when are they otherwise but when cunning men have the managing of them ? ) the true meaning of this principle is , that it will never be well with the world till the books of scripture are all burnt which are abroad , and that only one original be preserved in the vatican to justifie the popes title to infallibility , and that ( as the sybilline oracles of old , ) never to be consulted but in cases of great extremity , and that under the inspection of some very trusty officers , nor to be interpreted but by the pope himself . if i were of the church of rome , and owned the principles of it , i must needs have condemned the great men of it in former times for want of prudence in this matter ; that would have served their turn much better than forging so many decretal epistles , falsifying so many testimonies , perverting so many texts of scripture to maintain the dignity of the papal chair . there was only one small circumstance wanting , ( their good will we have no cause to question ) and that was the possibility of it ; for although the roman church called it self catholick , they were wise enough to know , there were many considerable churches in the world besides theirs , where the scriptures were preserved , and from whence copies might be procured by persons who would be so much the more inquisitive , the more they were forbidden to get it . therefore they pitched upon an easier way , and finding the people under a very competent degree of ignorance , they indulged them and soothed them up in it , and told them they could never miss the way to heaven , though never so narrow , in the dark . their only danger was too much light , for then probably they might be in a great dispute , whether the broad way was not the true ; for there they saw most of their friends and leaders . and while they kept the people in this profound ignorance and superstition , they jogged on in their opinion , as securely to heaven , as ignatius loyola's mule did to mount-serrat , when he laid his bridle on his neck , to see whether he would take the way to pursue the moor , which was the more beaten track , or the more craggy and untrodden way to that place of devotion , and by a mighty providence , ( and i suppose a little help of the rider ) the beast took the more narrow way . but when persons began to be awakened by learning , and thereby grew inquisitive in all matters and so by degrees in those of religion , they then espied their errour in letting such a book lye abroad in so many hands , from whence so many irresistible arguments were drawn against the doctrine and practices of the roman church . this i assure my self , is the true ground of the quarrels against the reading the scriptures ; but that being now irremediable , they betake themselves to smaller arts , and endeavour to hinder any one particular person whom they have the least suspicion of , from meddling with a book so dangerous to their church and religion . § . . for if this were not it , what makes them to be more jealous of the use of the scriptures , than ever the christians were in former ages ? was there not much more danger of misunderstanding the doctrine of the gospel at first than ever after ? nay were there not very many who were false apostles and great and dangerous hereticks , presumptuous and arrogant , if ever any were ? but did christ or his apostles for all this , think it unfit to communicate the doctrine of the gospel to the people ; or were the books containing it written in languages not to be understood by them ? no , they chose the most popular languages of that time , most largely spread and generally understood . the apostles never told their disciples of the danger of reading the divine writings that were among them , when they were first spread abroad ; and never so proper a season to give them caution as then . but instead of that , they advise them to take heed to the sure word of prophecy , and that they did well therein , that the scriptures were written for their instruction and comfort , that being divinely inspired they were able to make them wise unto salvation . what , did the apostles never imagine all this while the ill use that might be made of them by men of perverse minds ? yes , they knew it as well as any , and did foretell schismes and heresies that should be in the church , and saw them in their own dayes ; and yet poor men , wanted that exquisite prudence of the roman church , to prevent them , by so happy an expedient as when they had written epistles to several churches , to forbid the promiscuous reading of them . but it may be , it was the awe of the apostles and their infallible spirit in interpreting scripture , made this prohibition not so necessary in their own time ; did the church then find it necessary to restrain the people after their decease ? we have an occasion soon after given , wherein to see the opinion of the church at that time ; the church of corinth fell into a grievous schisme and opposition to their spiritual governours : upon this clemens writes his epistle to them , wherein he is so far from forbidding the use of scripture to them to preserve unity , that he bidds them look diligently into the scriptures , which are the true oracles of the holy ghost : and afterwards , take st. pauls epistle into your hands , and consider what he saith and commends them very much for being skilled in the scriptures : beloved , saith he , ye have known , and very well known the holy scriptures , and ye have throughly looked into the oracles of god , therefore call them to mind . which language is as far different from that of the roman church , as the church of that age is from theirs . nay the counterfeit clemens ( whom they can make use of upon other occasions ) is as express in this matter as the true . for he perswades private christians to continual meditation in the scriptures , which he calls the oracles of christ ; and that this is the best imployment of their retirements . but we need not use his testimony in this matter , nor the old edition of ignatius , wherein parents are bid to instruct their children in the holy scriptures , nor that saying of polycarp to the philippians out of the old latin edition , i am confident you are well studied in the scriptures ; for in the greek yet preserved , he exhorts them to the reading of st. pauls epistles that they might be built up in the faith . so little did these holy men dream of such a prudent dispensing the scriptures among them , for fear of mischief they might do themselves or others by them . clemens alexandrinus mentions the reading the scriptures among christians before their meales , and psalmes and hymns at them ; and tertullian mentions the same custome . origen in the greek commentaries lately published , perswades christians by all means , by attending to reading , prayer , teaching , meditation therein day and night , to lay up in their hearts not only the new oracles of the gospell , apostles and apocalypse , but the old ones too of the law and the prophets . and elsewhere tells his hearers , they ought not to be discouraged if they met with difficulties in reading the scriptures : for there was great benefit to be had by them . but lest it should be thought he speaks here only of publick reading the scriptures , in his homilies on leviticus he speaks plainly , that he would not only have them hear the word of god in publick , but to be exercised and meditate therein in their houses night and day ; for christ is every where present , and therefore they are commanded in the law , to meditate therein upon their journeys , and when they sit in their houses , and when they lye down and rise up . but had not the church yet experience enough of the mischief of permitting the scriptures to the people ? were there ever greater and more notorious heresies than in those first ages of the church , and those arising from perverting the words and designes of the scriptures ? but did the church yet afterwards grow wiser in the sense of the roman church ? in the time of the four general councils they had tryal enough of the mischief of heresies , but did the fathers of the church forbid the reading the scriptures on that account ? no , but instead of that they commend the scriptures to all , as the best remedy for all passions of the mind , so st. basil , and st. hierome call it , and this latter commends nothing more to the women he instructed in devotion , than constant reading the scriptures ; and withall they say that infinite evils do arise from ignorance of the scriptures ; from hence most part of heresies have come , from hence a negligent and careless life ; and unfruitful labours . nay so frequent , so earnest and vehement is st. chrysostome in this matter of recommending the reading of scriptures , that those of the roman church have no other way to answer him , but by saying he speaks hyperbolically ; which in plain english is , he speaks too much of it . but how far different were the opinions of the wise men of the church in those times , from what those have thought who understood the interest of the roman church best ? we may see what the opinion of the latter is , by the counsel given to iulius . by the bishops met at bononia for that end , to give the best advice they could for restoring the dignity of the roman see , that which was the greatest and weightiest of all , they said , they reserved to the last , which was that by all means as little of the gospel as might be especially in the vulgar tongue , be read in the cities under his jurisdiction ; and that little which was in the mass ought to be sufficient ; neither should it be permitted to any mortal to read more . for as long as men were contented with that little , all things went well with them , but quite otherwise since more was commonly read . for this , in short , is that book , say they , which above all others hath raised those tempests and whirlewinds , which we are almost carryed away with : and in truth , if any one diligently considers it , and compares it with what is done in our churches , will find them very contrary to each other ; and our very doctrine not only to be different from it but repugnant to it . a very fair and ingenuos confession ! and if self-condemned persons be hereticks , there can be none greater than those of the roman church , especially the prudential men in it , such as these certainly were , whom the pope singled out to give advice in these matters . but how different is the wisdom of the children of this world from that of the children of light ! we have already seen what another kind of judgement the ancient fathers had of the usefulness of scriptures to the people , than they have in the roman church : but we need not more to prove it , since it is acknowledged by those who are against the reading the scriptures by the people , that it was otherwise in the primitive church ; so alphonsus à castro and sixtus senensis confess . espencaeus quotes many plain places from st. austin and st. chrysostom to prove , that the people ought to be very diligent in reading the scriptures in their own houses , and that nothing should excuse them from it : and confesseth that st. pauls precept , colos. . let the word of god dwell richly in you was intended for the people , and that they ought to have it among them not only sufficiently but abundantly . the sum of this argument is , that the reasons now urged against the peoples reading the scriptures would have held against the publishing of them in a language to be understood by the people ; that they saw the same inconveniencies which are objected now , and yet commended the reading the scriptures to all , that in all the primitive church , the practice was not only retained but vehemently urged , after all the heresies which had risen in the church in their time ; and therefore for the church of rome to account it wisdome to keep the people from it , is to charge not only the fathers of the church with folly , but the apostles , and our saviour , and god himself . chap. iv. of the fanaticism of the roman church . the unreasonableness of objecting sects and fanaticisms to us as the effects of reading the scriptures . fanaticism countenanced in the roman church , but condemned by ours . private revelations made among them the grounds of believing some points of doctrine , proved from their own authors . of the revelations pleaded for the immaculate conception . the revelations of s. brigitt and s. catharin directly contrary in this point , yet both owned in the church of rome . the large approbations of s. brigitts by popes and councils ; and both their revelations acknowledged to be divine in the lessons read upon their dayes . s. catharines wonderful faculty of smelling souls , a gift peculiar to her and philip nerius . the vain attempts of reconciling those revelations . the great number of female revelations approved in the roman church . purgatory , transubstantiation , auricular confession proved by visions and revelations . festivals appointed upon the credit of revelations : the feast of corpus christi on the revelation made to juliana , the story of it related from their own writers : no such things can be objected to our church . revelations still owned by them ; proved from the fanatick revelations of mother juliana very lately published by mr. cressy : some instances of the blasphemous nonsense contained in them . the monastick orders founded in enthusiasm . an account of the great fanaticism of s. benedict , and s. romoaldus : their hatred of humane learning , and strange visions and revelations . the carthusian order founded upon a vision . the carmelites vision of their habit . the franciscan and dominican orders founded on fanaticism , and seen in a vision of innocent the third to be the great supporters of the roman church . the quakerism of s. francis described from their best authors . his ignorance , extasies and fanatick preaching . the vision of dominicus . the blasphemous enthusiasm of the mendicant fryers . the history of it related at large . of the evangelium aeternum , and the blasphemies contained in it . the author of it supposed to be the general of the franciscan order , however owned by the fryers , and read and preached at paris . the opposition to it by the vniversity : but favoured by the popes . gul. s. amour writing against it , his book publickly burnt , by order of the court of rome . the popes horrible partiality to the fryers . the fanaticism of the franciscans afterwards . of the followers of petrus johannis de oliva . the spiritual state began ( say they ) from s. francis. the story of his wounds , and maria visitationis paralleld . the canting language used by the spiritual brethren , called beguini , fraticelli , and begardi . of their doctrines about poverty , swearing , perfection , the carnal church and inspiration : by all which , they appear to be a sect of quakers after the order of s. francis. of the schism made by them . the large spreading and long continuance of them . of the apostolici and dulcinistae . of their numerous conventicles . their high opinion of themselves . their zeal against the clergy and tythes ; their doctrine of christian liberty . of the alumbrado's in spain : their disobedience to bishops , obstinate adhering to their own fancies , calling them inspirations , their being above ordinances . ignatius loyola suspected to be one of the illuminati , proved from melchior canus . the iesuites order founded in fanaticism ; a particular account of the romantick enthusiasm of ignatius , from the writers of his own order . whereby it is proved , that he was the greatest pretender to enthusiasm , since the dayes of mahomet and s. francis. ignatius gave no respect to men by words or putting off his hat ; his great ignorance and preaching in the streets : his glorying in his sufferings for it ; his pretence to mortification ; the wayes he used to get disciples . their way of resolution of difficulties by seeking god ; their itinerant preaching in the cities of italy . the sect of quakers a new order of disciples of ignatius , only wanting confirmation from the pope , which ignatius obtained . of the fanatick way of devotion in the roman church . of superstitious and enthusiastical fanaticism among them . of their mystical divinity . mr. cressy's canting in his preface to sancta sophia . of the deiform fund of the soul ; a superessential life , and the way to it . of contemplating with the will. of passive vnions . the method of self-annihilation . of the vnion of nothing with nothing . of the feeling of not-being . the mischief of an unintelligible way of devotion . the utmost effect of this way is gross enthusiasm . mr. cressy's vindication of it examined . the last sort of fanatioism among them , resisting authority under pretence of religion . their principles and practices compared with the fanaticks . how far they are disowned ai present by them . of the vindication of the irish remonstrance . the court of rome hath alwayes favoured that party , which is most destructive to civil government , proved by particular and late instances . § . . . we come to consider whether the reading the scriptures be the cause of all the sects and fanaticisms which have been in england ? he might much better have charged the philosophers , especially aristotle , with all the disputes in the world ; for they not only by their writings have occasioned many , but have taught men the pernicious use of reasoning , without which , the world might be as quiet as a flock of sheep . if they could but perswade men to lay aside that mischievous faculty , i dare undertake for them , that let the people have the bible never so much among them ; they shall never hurt the church of rome . do they not tell us , that the words of scripture are plain for transubstantiation , this is my body , why do not then the people as readily believe that , as any other proposition ? by which we see , it is not meerly reading , but a more dangerous thing , called considering or reasoning which make them embrace some things as they lye in words , and interpret others according to the clearest evidence , which the nature of the thing , the comparing with other places , and the common sense of mankind will give . but why are we not all of a mind ? i would fain know the time when men were so . this variety of sects was objected against the philosophers , and thought no argument then ; it was objected against the primitive christians , and thought of no force then ; why must it signifie more in england , than ever it did in any other age or place ? but say they , it was otherwise in england before the scriptures came to be read by all , it was and is otherwise in all churches where they are not read , therefore these sects and fanaticisms are the dire effects of the promiscuous reading the scriptures . this is the common and popular argument . all things were well with us when we offered up cakes to the queen of heaven ; when all joyned in the communion of the roman church , then there were no fanaticisms , nor new lights , no sects , as there are now in england ; therefore why should any one make any doubt , but he ought to return to the church of rome ? this necessarily leads me into the examination of these two things . . whether there be no danger of fanaticism in the roman church ? . whether the vnity of that church be so admirable to tempt all persons , who prize the churches vnity , to return to it ? § . . concerning the danger of fanaticism in the roman church . by fanaticism we understand either an enthusiastick way of religion , or resisting authority under a pretence of religion . in either sense it shall appear , that the church of rome is so far from being cleared from it , that it hath given great encouragement to it . . as to an enthusiastick way of religion ; i shall now prove , that there have not been greater enthusiasts among us in england , than have been in the roman church ; all the difference is , they have been some alwayes , others for a time , allowed and countenanced and encouraged by those of the church of rome ; but among us they have been decryed and opposed by all the members of the church of england . i shall not insist upon the resolution of faith , and the infallibility of the church , which must be carried to enthusiasm at last ; but i shall prove it by plain revelations which have been made the grounds among them of believing some doctrines in dispute , and the reasons of setting up a more perfect way of life , which in the highest strain of their devotion , is meer enthusiasm . . revelations have been pleaded by them in matters of doctrine ; such i mean which depend upon immediate impulses and inspirations since the canon of scripture and apostolical traditions . of this we have a remarkable instance in a late controversie managed with great heat and interest on both sides , viz. of the immaculate conception of the virgin mary : about the ending of which , a solemn embassy was sent from the kings of spain , philip the third , and philip the fourth to the popes paul the fifth and gregory the thirteenth , and an account is given of it by one concerned himself in the management of the theological part of it , which , he saith , is therefore published , that the world may understand upon what grounds the doctrines of faith are established among them . one of the chief whereof insisted upon was , some private revelations made to some saints about the immaculate conception , which being once received in the church , adds no small strength , he saith , to any doctrine , and gives a solid foundation for a definition : i. e. that the matter may be defined to be of faith , and necessary to be believed by all christians . upon this he reckons up several revelations publickly received in the church , one , mentioned by anselm , being a divine apparition to an abbot in a storm ( a fit time for apparitions ) whereby he was admonished to keep the feast of the conception of the blessed virgin , upon which , as baronius observes , that feast was first kept in england . which revelation wadding tells us , is publickly recited in the office for the day , and was not only extant in several breviaries of england , france , spain and italy ; but he had divers himself authorized by the pope , wherein it was recommended as true and piously to be believed , and accordingly have been publickly sung and used in the church about an hundred years . and what , saith he , is the consequence of disbelieving this , but to say in effect , that the pope and the roman church are easily cheated and abused by impostures , and forgers of false revelations to institute new festival solemnities upon the credit of them ? another revelation was made to norbertus the founder of the order of the praemonstratenses , in which , the virgin mary appeared and commended her veneration to him , and gave him a white garment in token of her original innocency ; which revelation is believed by all of that order , and taken as the reason of their habit . besides these , there are several other revelations to s. gertrude , and others to the same purpose reckoned up by several catholick authors , which no man ought to reject , unless he intends to be as great a heretick ( or therein as wise a man ) as erasmus was . nay , these revelations were so frequent , he saith , that there hath been no age since the tenth century , wherein there hath not been some made to devout men or women about this matter . but above all these , most remarkable were those to s. brigitt , who had not one or two , but many to this purpose ; and the latest were of joanna a cruce , which , it seems , were at first eagerly opposed , but at last came out with the approbation of two cardinals and several bishops of the inquisition in spain . but now who could imagine a thing so often revealed , so publickly allowed , so many times attested from heaven , should not be generally received ? but the mischief of it was , the contrary doctrine had revelations for it too . for antoninus and cajetan say , s. catharine of siena had it revealed to her , that she was conceived with original sin . what is to be done now ? here we have saint against saint , revelation against revelation , s. catharine against s. brigitt , and all the rest of them . here to speak truth , they are somewhat hard put to it ; for they grant god cannot contradict himself , and therefore of one these must be false , but which of them is all the question . here they examine which of these doctrines is most consonant to scripture and tradition , which is most for the benefit of the church , which were persons of the greater sanctity , and whose revelations were the most approved . for. s. brigitts they plead stoutly , that when they were delivered by her to her confessors , they were strictly examined , and after them by the bishops and divines of sweden , and approved as divine revelations ; from them they were sent as such to the council of basil ; from thence they were examined over again at naples , and there allowed and preached in the presence and by command of the queen and archbishop before all the people of the city ; again examined at rome by prelats and cardinals , a. d. . by the popes appointment , and there approved : and a. d. . they are declared by those vrban the sixth committed the new examination of them to , to be authentick , and to come from the spirit of god : and so much is declared by boniface the ninth in the bull of her canonization , and at last approved , saith wadding , at the general council of basil. what could be expected less after this ; than that they should have been received as canonical scriptures , they having never taken so much pains in examining and approving any controverted books of the bible , as they had done about these revelations ? and no man knows how far their authority might have prevailed , if the whole sect of dominicans had not been engaged in the opposite opinion . for nothing else that i can find , hath given any discredit to her revelations but this ; which makes cajetan call them old wives dreams , as wadding confesseth . but it falls out very conveniently , that s. catharines revelation was just in the dominican way in which she had been educated ; and for all that i can see , wants little of the reputation of st. brigitt . for they were both very wonderful persons , and had more familiar reyelations , than any of the prophets we read of . s. brigitt in her childhood ( if we believe the account given of her in the bull of canonization by bonifacius , and her life by vastavius ) had visions as frequently as other children have babyes , and was as well pleased with them ; the virgin mary was once her midwife , as the pope very gravely tells us ; but her revelations ( after christ took her for his spouse ) have filled a great volume . wherein a person that hath leisure enough , may see strange effects of the power of imagination , or a religious melancholy ; and to that book the pope in his bull refers us : and if any thing can be more considerable than the popes authority , the whole roman church in the prayers upon s. brigitts day , do confess these revelations to have come immediately from god to her ; and in one of the lessons for that day , do magnifie the multitude of her divine revelations . but to say truth , the church of rome allows fair play in the case , for it magnifies s. catharine as much as s. brigitt : for her holy extasies are mentioned in the lessons upon her day , in one of which , were five rayes coming from the five wounds of our saviour to five parts of her body ; and she ( being wonderfull humble ) prayed our lord , that the wounds might not appear ( for fear she should have been thought as holy as s. francis ) and immediately the colour of the blood was changed into pure light upon her hands , and feet , and heart . and her confessor raimund ( who is alwayes a principal man in these things , as matthias a suecia was to s. brigitt ) without whom she was advised from heaven to do nothing , saw these splendid wounds upon her body ; ( but by what instrument did he see the wound in her heart ? ) well , though we hereticks are not apt to be too credulous in these cases , the church of rome very gravely tells us in the next lesson ; that her learning was not acquired , but infused , by which she answered the most profound doctors in the most difficult speculations in divinity ; but these were nothing to her revelations and the service she did the church of rome by them in a time of schisme . but one gift she had above s. brigitt , which was that while she was on earth she could not only see , but smell souls too , and could not endure the stench of wicked souls , as raynaldus tells us from her confessor raimund : a gift very few had besides her and philip nerius the father of the oratorians , for raynaldus one of his order , tells us from bacius the writer of his life , that he was sometimes so offended with the smells of filthy souls , that he would desire the persons to empty the iakes of their souls . such divine noses had these two saints among them ! a degree of enthusiasme above the spirit of discerning any quakers among us have ever pretended to . pope pius the second in the bull of canonization of s. catharine , not only acknowledgeth a gift of prophecy to have been in her , but that sometimes her extasies were so great , that she was sensible of no kind of pain in them . and s. brigitt was often seen much above ground in her devotions , and one saw rivers and another fire came out of her mouth ; but i think not at the same time . these are things we rake not the old kennells of the golden legends for , but are at this day allowed and approved of in the roman church ; and their dayes kept , and they prayed to , upon the account of such things as these are . § . . yet still we are to seek what is to be done , when two revelations contradict each other ? for the dominicans are as peremptory for the revelation of s. catharine , as their adversaries are for that of s. brigitt . two bold fellows called henricus de hassia and sybillanus knew no other way , but to reject both as illusions and fancies ; but what becomes then of the popes and councils infallibility , who have approved both ? franciscus picus mirandula being a learned and ingenuous man , confesseth himself at a loss , both being concerning a thing passed , there must be truth on one side , and falshood on the other : for the case is not the same , saith he , as to past and future things , in which a condition may be understood . by which means st. bernard escaped , when he promised great success to an expedition into the holy land , and they who went in it found the quite contrary . but at last gives us leave to conjecture his meaning when he saith , that if any thing be false in a prophecy , though some prove true , we have cause to suspect all ; especially if it come from women , whose judgements are weak , and their passions vehement , and imaginations easily possessed with what they are most desirous of , and least able to distinguish between the strength of imagination , and a divine revelation : but as to that particular case of s. catharine and s. brigitt , where both were women ; he saith , the divines were generally for the former , and the monks for the latter ; but which was in the truth , he thinks cannot be known upon earth . martin del rio discoursing of the revelations of canonized saints who were women in the church of rome , reckons up s. angela a carmelitess , whose book of revelations came out above four hundred years ago , s. gertrude a. d. . s. hildegardis in germany , a. d. . and about the same time s. elizabeth of sconaugh , all whose revelations were published , and the last collected by roger an english cistertian ; and in latter times he mentions s. brigitt , and s. catharine whose revelations , he saith , were opposed by some , but he declares for his part , that he is not at all moved with their arguments , for that would diminish too much the honour due to those holy spouses of christ , as he calls them ; but in truth he confesses , the honour of their church is concerned in it ; for , saith he , several popes upon diligent examination have allowed and approved these revelations , as eugenius the third did those of hildegardis as well as boniface the ninth , those of s. brigitt . for the argument from the contradiction of these revelations , he knows not how to come off , but by a charge of forgery on the dominican side ; and why might not they as well return it on the other ; unless matthias a suetia confessor to s. brigitt were more infallible than raimundus , or those who believed s. catharine . but this is not the only case , wherein these female revelations so much approved by the church of rome are contradictory to each other in those things whereon the proof of a point of doctrine depends . for who knows not to what end the revelation of s. gregoryes delivering the soul of trajan by his prayers , is so frequently urged ? and this is confirmed by a revelation of s. brigitt to that purpose ; from whence salmeron calls it an unanswerable argument , and alphonsus ciacconius published by the popes authority an apology for that revelation . yet baronius tells us , that s. mathildis had a revelation to the contrary , and if it were not contradictory to s. brigitts , it must be contradictory to it self . and therefore he very fairly rejects them all , but with what honour to his church ( which had before approved them ) i can by no means understand . and bellarmin to the revelation of mathildis , ( wherein she desired to know what became of the souls of sampson , solomon , origen and trajan , and god answered her that none should know what he had done with them ) opposes another revelation wherein the soul of origen was seen together with that of arius and nestorius in hell. so infallible are these revelations , even when they contradict each other . how often have visions and apparitions of souls been made use of to prove the doctrine of purgatory ? witness the famous testimonies to this purpose out of s. gregories dialogues , and bedes history ; which latter is at large recited ( being very proper for it ) in the late great legend published by mr. cressy under the name of a church history ; who justifies the substance of the story as far as it concerns the doctrine of purgatory , although he doth not think the person really dead but only in a trance ; which is all one to our purpose as long as such arguments as these , are made use of to prove matters of faith by . we need not go so far back as gabriel biel , to shew that the doctrine of transubstantiation hath been proved by the appearance of a child in a host , such an argument hath been lately published to the world ; and bellarmin reckons up several to this purpose , one , wherein instead of bread was seen real flesh , and another , wherein christ was seen in the form of a child . which are well attended , with st. anthony of padua 's horse , which would never have left his provender to worship the host , unless he had seen some notable sight there . and he very doughtily proves auricular confession , by a certain vision of a tall and terrible man with his book in his hand , which blotted out presently all the sins which the humble thief confessed upon his knees to the priest ; but he hath not proved that terrible man did not represent the devil , who by that ceremony might shew that he turned over the keeping of his books of accompts to the priest , who upon confession , might tell mens sins , as well as he could do without . but they have not only attempted to prove matters of doctrine by these things , but things have been defined in the church meerly upon the credit of private revelations . so the spanish ambassadour urges the pope smartly upon the revelations of st. bridgitt , that there were many of his predecessors that had determined more things in the church partly relying upon private revelations therein , whose authority was not greater than hers were . pius . . he saith , determined the controversie of easter-day upon the credit of a revelation made to hermes . urban . instituted the festival of corpus christi in opposition to the denyers of transubstantiation upon the instinct and revelation of a certain woman . paul the hermite was canonized for a saint upon the authority of a vision and revelation to anthony , the one of his soul flying to heaven , the other of his being there . the feast of the apparition of the arch-angel michael , which is constantly observed in the church of rome , depended upon a revelation to the bishop of siponto and a few drovers upon the mountain garganus . these are things briefly touched by the ambassadour , but it will not be amiss to give a more particular account of those instances which concern the institution of festival solemnities , by which it will appear that they are fanatical even in their superstitions . pope vrban . in the bull still extant for the celebration of corpus christi day , mentions that as one of the great reasons of appointing it , that while he was in a lower capacity he understood that a revelation had been made to certain catholicks that this feast should be observed in the church . this which is only intimated here is at large explained by ioh. diestemius blaerus prior of st. iames in liege , where these things happened . in an hospital hard by the town he tells us , there was a famous virgin called iuliana , which had many extasies and raptures , and so prophetical a spirit as to discern the thoughts and intentions of her neighbours hearts ; she wrestled with devils , discoursed with the apostles , and wrought many miracles . but one thing peculiar to her was , that in her prayers she almost alwayes saw the moon in her brightness , but with a snip taken off from her roundness : at which she was much troubled , but by no means could get it out of her phancy . at last god was pleased to reveal it to her , that the moon signified the present church , and that fraction the want of one solemnity more to be observed in it : upon which she received a command from heaven to proclaim the observation of this solemnity . for twenty years , she prayed that god would excuse her , and make choice of a more worthy person ; but none being found she communicates it to iohannes de lausenna , and he to iacobus de trecis then arch-deacon of liege , and afterwards , vrban . but although all the persons to whom it was communicated highly approved it ; yet she was not satisfied till ( one of her gossips , ) named isabella , after a whole years praying for it had the same thing revealed to her , with that circumstance , that this feast had alwayes been among the secrets of the b. trinity , but now the time was come that it should be published to the world ; and she in one of her extasies saw very distinctly all the heavenly orders upon their faces , supplicating god , that to confirm the faith of christians ; this day might be speedily observed . this isabella was so much intoxicated by this vision , saith the author , that out of the abundance of her spiritual drunkenness ( they are his own words ) she declared she would promote the observing this feast , although the whole world should oppose her . which ( we may well think ) iuliana rejoyced to hear , and hence forwards they joyned counsels to advance this solemnity . iuliana gets an ignorant young priest to draw up an office for it , and while he writ , she prayed , by which the office was so well composed ; that it would melt ( saith he ) the hardest hearts into devotion : and when it was seen by divines , they said it was not written by man , but inspired by god himself . and yet when pope vrban published his bull upon the credit of these revelations , for the celebration of this feast , he appointed tho. aquinas to compose an office for it , and rejected that divine office of iuliana . the epistle of vrban to eva one of the nuns of liege , and a companion of the two virgins is still extant in diestemius and binius about the institution of this feast of corpus christi . and that this was the occasion of this festival , is not delivered alone by diestemius , but by arnoldus bostius and petrus praemonstratensis , by vignier and molanus , ( as binius confesseth of this last , ) who can no more be suspected of partiality in this case than . diestemius ; but we need no other evidence than the popes own bull. the story of the other is remarkable too , for it is read constantly in the roman breviary upon the eighth of may. it came to pass that among the droves of cattle , the bull of a certain inhabitant wandred from the rest , which having long sought for , they found in the entrance of a cave . and when one shot an arrow at him to destroy him , the arrow was driven back again to him that shot it . which thing so affrighted them all , that they durst not come near the cave , the sipontines consult their bishop , who appointed three dayes fasting and prayer to seek god in the case ; after the three dayes the arch-angel gabriel admonisheth the bishop , that place was in his custody , and by that act he shewed , that they ought to worship god there in remembrance of him and his fellow angels . the bishop and people go accordingly thither , and they find the place already formed into the fashion of a temple , and there they perform divine offices , where many miracles were afterwards wrought . not long after pope boniface dedicated the church of st. michael the third of the calends of october in which the church celebrates the memory of all angels , but this day is consecrated to the apparition of michael the arch-angel . thus far the or lessons of the present roman breviary , whereby we understand what infallible grounds the church of rome proceeds upon in all her definitions and observations . § . . and is it not a hard case now , we should be so often told of fanaticism among us , by the members of the roman church ? where are the visions and revelations ever pleaded by us in any matter of doctrine ? did we never discard any of the roman opinions or practices upon the account of revelations made to women or to any private persons ? do we resolve the grounds of any doctrine of ours into any visions and extasies ? have we any festivals kept upon such occasions ? do we collect fanatical revelations , and set them out with comments upon them , as gonsalvus durantus hath done those of st. bridgitt ? have we any mother iuliana's among us ? or do we publish to the world the fanatick revelations of distempered brains as mr. cressy hath very lately done , to the great honour and service of the roman church , the sixteen revelations of divine love shewed to a devout servant of our lord ( and lady too ) called mother juliana ? we have , we thank god , other wayes of imploying our devout retirements , than by reading such fopperies as those are . excellent men ! that debarr the people reading the scriptures in their own tongue , and instead of them put them off with such fooleries , which deserve no other name at the best than the efforts of religious madness . were we to take an estimate of christian religion from such raptures and extasies , such visions and entertainments as those are , how much must we befool our selves to think it sense ? did ever h. n. iacob behmen , or the highest enthusiasts talk at a more extravagant rate than this iuliana doth ? as when she speaks of our being beclosed in the mid-head of god , and in his meek-head , and in his benignity , and in his buxomness , though we feel in us wrath , debate , and strife : of being substantially united to god ; and that , god is that goodness which may not be wrath , for god is not but goodness : our soul is oned to him , unchangeable goodness ; and between god and our soul is neither wrath nor forgiveness in his sight , for our soul is so fulsomely oned to god of his own goodness , that between god and our soul may be right naught . that in mankind that shall be saved is comprehended all ; that is to say , all that is made and the maker of all ; for in man is god , and god is all , and he that loveth thus he loveth all : that our soul is so deep grounded in god , and so endlesly treasured that we may not come to the knowing thereof , till we have first knowing of god ; which is the maker to whom it is oned , and therefore if we will have knowing of our soul , and commoning , and dalliance therewith , it behooveth to seek into our lord god in whom it is inclosed : and that worshipful city that our lord iesu sitteth in , it is our sensuality in which he is inclosed ; and our kindly substance is beclosed in iesu with the blessed soul of christ , resting in the godhead : and notwithstanding all this we may never come to the full knowing of god till we know first clearly our own soul ; for into the time that it is in the full mights , we may not be all holy ; and that is , that our sensuality by the vertue of christs passion be brought up into the substance , with all the profits of our tribulation , that our lord shall make us to get by mercy and grace . i had in party touching , and it is grounded in kind ; that is to say , our reason is grounded in god which is substantially kindness . afterwards she discourseth of three properties in the holy trinity , of the fatherhead , of the motherhood , and of the lordship , and she further saw that the second person which is our mother substantially , the same dear worthy person is now become our mother sensual ; for we be double of gods making , substantial and sensual . we may justly admire what esteem mr. cressy had of that lady to whose devout retirements he so gravely commends the blasphemous and senseless tittle tattle of this hysterical gossip . it were endless to repeat the canting and enthusiastick expressions , which signifie nothing in mother iuliana's revelations ; and one would wonder to what end such a book were published among us , unless it were to convince us of this great truth , that we have not had so great fanaticks and enthusiasts among us , but they have had greater in the roman church . and by this means they may think to prevail upon the fanaticks among us , by perswading them , that they have been strangely mistaken concerning the church of rome in these matters ; that she is no such enemy to enthusiams and revelations as some believe ; but that in truth she hath not only alwayes had such , but given great approbation and encouragement to them . so that among all their visions they do but mix some that confirm their particular doctrines ; as the visions of iuliana concerning the great worship of the b. virgin from her son , the holy vernacle at rome , and such like fopperies ; these make all the rest very acceptable among them . § . . . that which they account the most perfect way of life , hath been instituted by enthusiastick persons , and upon the credit of visions and revelations , and the highest way of devotion in that church is meer enthusiasme . . that the religious orders were instituted among them by enthusiastick persons upon the credit of their visions and revelations . the most celebrated orders at this day in the roman church are the benedictines , carthusians , dominicans , franciscans and iesuites , and if i can prove this concerning each of these , we shall see how much fanaticism hath contributed to the support of the roman church . and it is a very fair way towards the proof of it , that bellarmin confesseth concerning the four first and that of romoaldus , that they were at first instituted by st. benedict , st. romoaldus , st. bruno , st. dominick , st. francis , by the inspiration of the holy ghost ; and for ignatius loyola if he do not appear as great a fanatick as ever hath been in the world , we shall be contented to be upbraided with the charge of fanaticism among us . it is observable in the life of st. benedict , as st. gregory relates in the second book of his dialogues , that he was a great hater of humane learning , and that was the first occasion of his retiring from the world : being very much afraid a little knowledge should have destroyed him . he therefore forsook not only his studies , but his fathers house and business , being as st. gregory saith , knowingly ignorant , and wisely unlearned : he might as well have said ignorantly learned , and foolishly wise . one might have suspected it had been rather hatred of his book , than devotion at his age , which made him run away from school and his fathers house ; but one of his visions in his cave makes it more probable there was some other occasion of it . but however away he goes , and only an old nurse with him , and he requited her soon for it , for he by his prayers set together the winnowing sieve which she had broken in pieces , which was after hanged up before the doors of the church to the lombards times . but this is nothing to his being three years in a cave without the knowledge of any but st. roman , who let him down victuals by a rope and a bell ; and the devil owing him a great spight , threw a huge stone and broke the bell. here he lay so close , that he was fain to be discovered by a vision , and was so devout that he had forgotten easter day , till he was put in mind of it by the person , who by a vision was sent to him : and was so little like a man that the shepherds took him for a beast lying in a den . but at last he is brought to light , and found to be a wonderful person ; ( for among superstitious people , ignorance and devotion are most admired together ) and now many are sent to him for education ; having conquered his amorous passions by rowling himself naked among thornes and nettles : which thorns a long time after st. francis grafted roses upon , ( as bollandus well observes ) which bear in the coldest part of winter , and of them rose water is made which is sent as a present to the greatest princes . he had an admirable sagacity in spying devils ; for he saw a little black devil which led away a monk from prayers ; and was fain to pray two dayes with pompeianus and maurus that god would afford them the grace to see him too : and at last maurus being young , and his sight good , saw him ; but pompeianus being older and wiser could not . however st. bennet sent the little devil packing with a stroke of his rod , as he did at other times with the sign of the cross : and easily caused a stone to be lifted up whereon the devil sate , which could not be stirred before his coming . it would take up too much time to tell of his miracles , my business is only with his visions and revelations , by which he could not only foretell things to come , but could discover absent things ; so that the monks could not eat out of his sight , but he could tell as well as if he saw the meat in their teeth when they denyed it . he discovered riggo's fraud when he came to him in totila's habit , and told totilas how long he should raign ; nay , if we believe st. gregory , he knew the secrets of the divinity , being one spirit with god : no wonder then the unhappy boy could not hide one flask of wine , nor the monks receive handkerchiefs of the women , but he found it out , but most admirable was his sight of his sister scholastica's soul entring into heaven in the shape of a dove : and another time the soul of germanus bishop of capua in a fiery circle carryed by angels to heaven ; but above all was his seeing all the world under one ray of the sun , which he could not do , gregory concludes without a divine internal light ; upon which a dispute hath been raised in the schooles , whether st. benedict saw the divine essence or no ? aquinas thinks not , but only that he had an extraordinary revelation ; vasquez doth not seem much to oppose it , but upon two grounds , the one very considerable , that we never read the virgin mary did it , who ought to have the highest share in revelations and visions : the other only a plain place of scripture ; no man hath seen god at any time ; the only begotten son of the father he hath revealed him . as though that were intended to exclude st. benedict and other founders of religious orders and not rather the patriarchs , prophets and apostles who came not near them in visions and miracles . but no one hath handled this profound question with that care and accuracy which angelus de nuce hath done , in his notes upon st. gregories life of st. benedict : he tells us therefore the question is not concerning the highest sort of abstractive contemplation of any thing short of the divine essence , for that , he saith , none doubt of ; but of an intuitive vision , by which the divine essence is seen clearly in it self immediately , and not in any created image : the negative he grants is held by aquinas and many of the schoolmen : but yet he saith , many schoolmen of great note are for the affirmative , and he deduces many arguments to prove it from st. gregories words : but that which addes most weight to it , besides the number of authors quoted by him , is that vrban . in a bull upon the feast of st. benedict , a. d. . doth expresly assert it . and ioh. bona a present cardinal at rome , saith , that st. benedict was rapt up into the third heavens , where he heard the choire of angels , and saw god face to face : for which besides gregory , he cites st. bernard , rupertus tuitiensis , bonaventure , dionysius carthusianus , maximilian sandaeus , and others . and addes to this as extraordinary a thing as any hath been yet said of him , that he and his sister scholastica sung very distinctly in their mothers wombs , a presage ( saith he ) of the chearful singing of their order . for which he quotes several authors of the benedictines , and although he grants it may be suspected , because it doth not occurr in the more ancient writers , yet he justifies it by many parellel stories . these things are enough for st. benedicts enthusiasme . st. romoaldus was as happy as st. benedict in his ignorance . for as petrus damiani reports in his life , when he first entred himself under the discipline of marinus the eremite , he could hardly read his psalter , though he had been a monk three years before ; and he adds it as a great instance of his patience , that when marinus in teaching him , did often beat him with a wand upon the left side of his head , for his dulness , he desired his master that he would now change his side , for he had by his strokes quite lost his hearing in his left eare : and yet he met with a worse companion than marinus ; for , for five years together he saith , the devil lay upon his feet and his leggs in the night , that he could not easily stirr himself . he was so possessed with the thoughts of him , that a monk could not knock at his cell door , but he asked the devil , what he did there in the wilderness ? and was ready to encounter with the devil , when he found him to be one of his brethren . but the devil once got him down ( as he imagined ) while he was saying his psalms , and wounded him , and bruised him sadly ; but of a sudden he rose up as sound as ever , and went on just where he left . all the crows and ugly birds he saw in the wilderness , he fancied to be devils , and challenged to fight with them ; and exceedingly triumphed when at his loud cries they flew away . he was converted by a vision of st. apollinaris , as his father sergius ran stark mad with a vision of the holy ghost , he wept so abundantly that he never durst say mass in publick , and bid his brethren have a care of shedding too many tears , because they hurt the sight and the brain . yet by immediate revelation he writ an excellent commentary saith mugnotius on the book of psalms , though not very agreeable to grammar saith petrus damiani ; and being led by the divine spirit to the top of a mountain , in his sleep he saw ladders reaching from thence to heaven , and a great many monks going up to heaven upon them . a divine vision indeed ! and he meeting with maldulus who by great fortune had the same vision , they presently agreed about erecting a monastery there . if the order of carthusians did not begin upon the story of the doctor of paris speaking those dreadful words after his death , which is delivered , say the defenders of it , by sixty authors of the roman church ; yet it is agreed on all hands among them , that hugo who joyned with bruno in laying the foundations of that order , had a vision of gods building a house of seven stars conducting them , to the place called la grand chartreuse , from whence the whole order hath taken its name . the carmelites have an especial vision of simon stock , wherein the b. virgin upon his devout prayers to her appeared with the habit in her hand , which she would have them wear , with a promise greater than ever her son made , that whosoever dyed in that habit , should not perish by everlasting flames . § . . but s. francis and s. dominick were the persons whom innocent the third saw in a vision supporting the tottering fabrick of the lateran church ; whereby he understood what props and supporters those two orders would be to the church of rome . from hence those high elogiums are given of those two persons by bonaventure , antoninus , bozius and others , that they were the two great lights of heaven , the two trumpets of moses , the two cheru●ims , ( or rather the two calves of dan and ●ethel , ) the two breasts of the spouse , the two olive branches , the two candlesticks , the two witnesses ; almost all the noted two's of the bible , but the two thieves , and the two testaments ; and these , as will appear presently , were in no great esteem among them . but s. francis got the start of the other ; for ( if a canonized saint may be believed upon his oath ) bonaventure did publickly swear at paris , saith bernardinus a bustis , that christ did reveal it to him , that s. john ( apocalyps . . . ) by the angel ascending from the east having the seal of the living god , meant no other than s. francis . and therefore that is the motto placed under his picture ; and is applyed the same way by pope leo the tenth . i shall not take the advantage that is sufficiently given us by the book of conformities , the alcoran of the franciscans , nor the declared enemies of those orders , to represent s. francis by but only take the account given of him by persons of greatest reputation in the roman-church . cardinal vitriaco , who saith , he saw him when he went to damiata , calls him a simple and illiterate man. cardinal bonaventure is received as the most approved writer of his life ; and he describes him as an ignorant enthusiast ; being bred a kind of woollen draper , as appears by the selling his cloth and his horse at foligno , after he left off trading upon the vision of building churches . his first conversion to quakerism was by dreams and visions , in which he was sometimes swallowed up in god , as bonaventures expression is , and his soul melted at the sight of christ ; and was so tender hearted to the poor , that he sometimes put off his clothes to give them , sometimes unript them , sometimes cut them in pieces , i suppose that he might give to the more . all this while he had no teacher but christ , and learnt all by inspiration , but went besides himself at hearing the voice come from a crucifix ( as any one almost would have done ) and it seems he was not well recovered when he came from the cave , for the people flocked about him as a mad man , and gave him the common civility to such persons of dirt and stones : and his father entertained him with dark rooms and chains , as the fittest for him , whom neither words nor blows could bring to himself . but finding no amendment , he made him renounce his patrimony , and so discharged him , which s. francis did so readily that he would not so much as keep the clothes on his back . whereby ; saith bonaventure , in a wonderful zeal , and being drunk in the spirit , casting away his very breeches , and being stark naked before them all , said thus to his father , hitherto i called thee father on earth ; but hence forward i can securely say , our father which art in heaven . as though his duty to god and his parents had been inconsistent . the bishop , in whose presence all this was done , gave order to have his nakedness covered , highly admiring his zeal ; and he no sooner had got some rags about him , but he falls to makeing crucifixes in mortar with his own hands , as children do babies in the dirt . in this height of fanaticism he goes about , and preaches to the people , whose words pierced their hearts , much sooner than sense and reason would have done ; and he soon brought the superstitious and ignorant multitude to a great admiration of him , for his very way of saluting the people , he pretended , he had by revelation . at last one bernard joyns with him , but s. francis tells him , they must seek god for direction what to do ; and after prayers , he being a great worshipper of the trinity , in honour to it opens the gospel three times , and the first three sentences he met with , were to be the rule of their order : their second brother was f. gyles , who though an idiot and a simple man , was full of god , as he saith , and had so many extasies and raptures that he seemed to live rather among angels than men . one day when s. francis was alone in a solitary place , he fell into an extasie of joy , and had full assurance of the remission of his sins ; and being transported beyond himself , he was catched up into a wonderful light , wherein his mind being inlarged , he foresaw all that should come to pass concerning his order . his number being increased , to rome he goes to confirm his order ; but the pope rejected him with scorn ; but in the night he saw a palm growing between his feet into a goodly tree ; which he wisely interpreting to be s. francis , sent for him , and promised him fair things , and upon the other vision of his supporting the lateran church , he approves his rule , and establishes his order . and his whole life afterwards was agreeable to this beginning 〈◊〉 and the rule of his order he called , as possevine tells us , the book of life , the hope of salvation , the marrow of the gospel , the ladder of heaven , the key of paradise , the eternal covenant . let any fanaticks be produced among us , ( though we are far from looking on them as the supporters of our church ) who have exceeded s. francis in their actions or expressions . s. brigitt saith of the rule of s. francis , that it was not dictated , or composed by the wisdom of man , but by god himself ; nay , every word therein was inspired by the holy ghost , which , she saith likewise , of all the other rules of religious orders . what horrible blasphemy is this , which is so solemnly approved in the church of rome for divine revelations ? but lest dominicus should seem to come behind s. francis in ●●sions , he tells him at rome where they met , that it was revealed to him in a vision , that christ was just coming to destroy the world for the wickedness of it , and his mother stopt him , and told him she had two servants would reform it , whereof himself was one , and christ approved of him , as one that would do his work , but his companion he did not know , till he met s. francis , and so they embraced one another . which vision out of his great humility s. francis reported , having it from the others own mouth . i shall not insist on any more of dominicus , nor on the blasphemous images set up in s. marks church at venice , one of which was of s. paul with this inscription , by him we go to christ ; the other of dominicus with this , but by him we go easier to christ ; but i shall proceed to their followers , among whom we meet with one of the most blasphemous pieces of enthusiasm the world hath ever known . § . . for which we are to understand that in the beginning of the thirteenth century one almaricus a student in paris was suspected for some dangerous opinions , for which he was sentenced to recant ; and soon after dyed . among these . opinions he broached this blasphemy , which was privately instilled into his followers ; that every person of the trinity had his successive time of ruling the world ; that the law of the father continued till christs comeing ; the law of the son to their time , and then the time of the holy ghost was to begin . in which the use of sacraments was to cease , and all internal administrations , and every one then was to be saved by the inspiration and inward grace of the holy ghost , without any external actions . they so highly extolled love , that what would have been a sin without it , they thought to be nothing with it ; as fornication , adultery , &c. and promised impunity to the women with whom they committed these things , because they said god was only good , and not just . that these were their opinions , is delivered by rigordus who lived in that age , and was upon the place , being a monk of s. denys and physitian to the king of france , and by eymericus and pegna , and many others . but by the care and endeavour of the bishop and vniversity of paris , though they had spread very far abroad , and with a great deal of secrecy , yet by the fraud and artifice of one imployed among them , who pretended to revelations and the spirit as highly as they could do , they were convicted , condemned , and some of them executed . notwithstanding which severity about fifty years after this came forth a book with the title of evangelium aeternum , or the eternal gospel published by the mendicant fryers , and supposed to be written by iohannes de parma about a. d. . who was general of the franciscan order ; but the book was received and defended by both orders , as will presently appear . but it will be first necessary to consider what the doctrines are , which are contained in this book ; and if ever there were higher fanaticism than is therein , or rather greater blasphemies , let them have leave to triumph . the most perfect account we have of it , is from nicol . eymericus , who was himself an inquisitor , and tells us these heresies or errors are contained in it . . that the doctrine of abbot ioachim ( a great fanatick ) excelled the doctrine of christ , and consequently the new and old testament . . that the gospel of christ is not the gospel of the kingdom , and therefore is not edifying . . that the new testament is to be evacuated , or lose its force , as the old hath already . . that the new testament shall not remain in force above six years longer ; viz. to a. d. . . that they which shall live beyond that time , shall be in the state of perfection . . that the gospel of christ shall give way to another gospel , and so instead of the priesthood of christ , another gospel shall succeed . . that no simple man is fit to instruct men in spiritual and eternal things , but they that walk barefoot . . that although god afflict the iews in this world , yet he will save them , though they remain in iudaism , and will in the end deliver them from all the opposition of men , remaining such as they are . . that the church hath not yet brought forth children , nor will do before the end of the temporal reign : which shall be after six years ; and by this we are to understand , that the christian religion , which hath brought forth many called to the faith of christ , is not the church . . that the gospel of christ brings no man to perfection . . that the gospel of the holy ghost coming , or ioachims work obtaining ( called the everlasting gospel or of the holy ghost ) the gospel of christ shall be done away . . that no man in religious orders is bound to expose his life for defence of the faith , or preserving the worship of christ , but other men are . . that as when iohn baptist came , the things that were before must needs be confuted , because of new things coming in their place ; so when the time of the holy ghost shall come , or the third state of the world , the things that were before must be confuted , for the sake of the new which are to come ; from whence it must be understood , that the new testament must be refuted , and the old cast away . . that christ and his apostles were not perfect in the contemplative life . . that the order of the clergy shall perish ; but one of a religious order shall be perferred above all in dignity and honour ; and that as the authority under the father was committed to one of the married order , so under the holy ghost to one or some of the order of monks . . that those who are over the colledges of monks , ought in those dayes to think of departing from the seculars , and prepare themselves to return to the ancient people of the iews . . that the preachers which shall be in the last state of the world , shall be of greater dignity and authority , than the preachers of the primitive church . . that the preachers and doctors of religious orders , when they shall be infested by the clergy , shall go over to the infidels ; and it is to be feared , lest they go thither for that end to bring them in battel against the roman church , according to the doctrine of s. iohn , apocalyps . . these may suffice out of twenty seven , to let the world know , where the height of blasphemy and fanaticism was first hatched ; and no one could imagine , that any who had the face or name of christians should own these things ; yet they came from those excellent and inspired persons of the newly founded religious orders . and if it had not been for the mortal hatred that then was between the university of paris , and the mendicant fryers ( who usurped the professors places in the vniversity against their will ) god knows how far this doctrine might have prevailed without the least censure . for the popes were extreamly partial to the fryers , and would hear no ill of them ; they now finding them their most useful instruments in all their quarrels with princes , the secular clergy and the people . so matth. paris relating the story of the quarrels between the university and the fryers , tells , that though the king and the city were for preserving the priviledges of the vniversity ; yet the fryers being at the popes devotion , and doing them a great deal of service , were more acceptable in the court of rome , and therefore got the better of the vniversity . nay , so zealous was alexander the fourth in the cause of the fryers against the vniversity , that in the six years of his popedom , he sent out near forty bulls against the vniversity , of which not one now appears in the bullarium : but most of them are preserved in that accurate preface before the works of gul. de sancto amore the zealous defender of the vniversity against the encroachments of the fryers , and in the late history of the vniversity of paris . in the midst of these heats , some intimation was given the divines of the vniversity of such a book , which was in great esteem among the fryers , called evangelium aeternum , wherein were very dangerous doctrines , which were ( saith matthew paris ) preached , read and taught by the fryers : and were put together by them in a book called evangelium aeternum , and taken , ( saith he ) chiefly out of the books of abbot joachim ; and richerius acknowledgeth , that the book was composed by the fryers , and that the divines of paris by some art got a copy of it , and extracted some heads out of it , which were contrary to faith : and upon that ( as du bouley saith ) they caused it to be burnt publickly at paris . but not being satisfied herewith ; they preached against it , as appears by a sermon of gul. de sancto amore , at the end of his works , wherein he saith , that he had seen no small part of that book ; and he had heard that it doth in all contain more than the bible ; and therein , he saith , it is taught , that the sacraments of the church are nothing , that the gospel of christ is not the true gospel ; and that the book it self is the gospel of the holy ghost , and the everlasting gospel ; and that the gospel of christ should be preached but for five years to come ; that then men shall have another rule of life , and the church shall be otherwise managed . which , saith he , is execrable and abominable to be spoken . but not content with bare preaching against them , he writ a very smart book in the name of the vniversity of paris , de periculo novissimorum temporum , of the dangers of the last times , wherein he doth at large set forth the hypocrisie , idleness , flattery and baseness of the fryers ; but coming to shew the near approach of the dangers he mentions , he saith , it is now fifty five years ( for about that time almaric broached his doctrine ) that some have endeavoured to change the gospel of christ into another gospel , which they said would be better , more perfect and worthy , which they call the gospel of the holy ghost , or the everlasting gospel ; which will by its coming turn the gospel of christ out of doors ; as , saith he , we are ready to prove , out of that cursed gospel ; and a little after he adds , that this everlasting gospel was publickly explained at paris , a. d. . from whence it is certain , that it would be preached , unless there were some other thing which hindered . and afterwards he saith , that in that book , this everlasting gospel is said to exceed the gospel of christ , as much as the light of the sun doth that of the moon , or the kernel doth the shell . this book of his extreamly incensed the fryers , and they presently sent informations against him to the pope ; and by their interest got his book to be condemned and burnt publickly before the pope and the court at anagnia , and afterwards at paris : to which purpose the pope published a bull , and denounced the sentence of excommunication against any who should presume to defend it : and the write of it was deprived of his ecclesiastical promotions and banished france , as far as the popes power could do it . all this was done in great haste , before the legats from the vniversity could appear ; and when they came , three of them recanted and returned ; only gul. de s. amore resolved to stand it out , and answered all their objections , and persisted still in the accusation of that horrible book : and at last prevailed so much , that the pope was fain to condemn the evangelium aeternum together with s. amours book ; but it appears how unwillingly he did it , by his carriage in it , which is related by matth. paris ; for he condemned the other book solemnly , and caused the sentence to be publickly executed ; but he gave order that this book should be secretly burnt , and as much as might be without any offence to the fryers . lo here the true zeal of the head of the church ! a book only writ against the mendicant fryers is condemned as impious , wicked , execrable , and what not , in the bull against it ; and a book against christian religion in the highest manner hardly procured to be condemned ; and when it is , with great fear of displeasing the authors and approvers of it . and since that time , they have been very careful to suppress the least mention of the latter , but very forward to set forth the other . for in the roman bullarium , the bull against s. amours book is set forth at large ; but not the least intimation of any such book condemned as the evangelium aeternum . so much dearer to the pope is the honour of fryers , than of christ and the christian religion ! and therefore s. amour said well in the university of paris before they went , that it was to no purpose to go about to procure the condemning that book at rome , where it had so many favourers ; the design of it being to advance the honour of religious orders , though to the overthrow of the gospel of christ. it is well these things were written and preserved by writers of their own church , and persons of the same age ( out of whom only i have given account of them ) for otherwise according to their usual method of confuting things which do not please them , they would be denyed with a mighty confidence , and the world should be told , that these are only the lyes and forgeries of hereticks . but these are to their shame preserved in their own books , and we can shew them the very words , if occasion requires it . § . . yet we are not to think , that only the preaching fryers sell into these extravagancies ; for the franciscans had a great hand in them too , and were as forward to promote that which they accounted their common interest . and notwithstanding the popes condemning the book , said to be taken out of abbot ioachims writings , yet his doctrine did in no long time after break forth again in the franciscan order . for toward the latter end of the same century , or as most think , in the beginning of the next in the time of clement the fifth appeared one petrus iohannis de oliva a great disciple of ioachims , as guido carmelita , alphonsus a castro , and franciscus pegna affirm . all the difference saith alphonsus , between them was , that ioachim made the spiritual state to commence from the founding the benedictine order , but petrus iohannis would have it begin only from s. francis : which state , as eymericus relates , where he recounts his errors , began with the franciscan order , when the angel of christ , that is , s. francis , did set his mark upon all his souldiers ; and that s. francis appeared as christ did with his wounds upon him . for we are to understand , that s. francis in one of his visions upon the very day of the exaltation of the cross , had the same bleeding wounds on his hands , feet and side , which christ had upon the cross , and carried them for two years together before his death ; and lest this should be suspected , pope alexander the fourth preached it in s. bonaventures hearing , that himself saw them , as the sixth lesson on s. francis day in the roman breviary , and bonaventure assure us . and who dares question the infallibility of the popes eye-sight ? unless the story in latter times of maria visitationis , as she was called , abbesse of the annuntiation in lisbon , may give some suspicion of it . for this virgin had gained so great a reputation for sanctity , not only in portugal , but in spain , italy and the east indies , that she seemed to be a fit match for s. francis. and she out-did him in the number of her wounds , for she had thirty two upon her head , caused by christs putting his crown of thorns upon her , and in her hands , and ●eet , and side , they were as exact as in st. francis , she made no difficulty of shewing them , if her confessor bid her , but never otherwise ; lest she should seem too much to glory in the honour which christ had done her . this confessor was no less a man , than ludovicus granatensis , a man highly commended for learning and piety , who as verily believed them , as pope alexander did those of s. francis. one day in the week she laid raggs to her wounds , upon which the print of the wounds was made . these rags with incredible devotion , saith the writer of the story , were sent to the pope himself , and to the greatest and most religious persons in all parts , by whom they were received with great veneration . and when he was inquisitor in sicily , he saith , he saw many of them with her picture , and a book of her life and eminent sanctity by a person of great authority , which were preserved as precious things by the vice-roy's lady . but this is nothing to gregory the thirteenth then pope , who writ a letter of encouragement to her , to go on in the same way of sanctity she had begun . she had been examined by the inquisition , and her wounds were allowed by them after diligent search : but at last they found what she aimed at , which was the revolt of portugall from spain ; which being once suspected , she is brought before the inquisition , and her sanctity is condemned , her wounds declared to be a meer imposture , being artificially made by red lead , and her self sentenced by the inquisitors to a very severe pennance all her dayes decemb. . a. d. . i suppose , my adversary having been upon the place , hath often heard the truth of this ; but if he doubts it , he may find it , as i have related it , in ludovicus a paramo . by which it is very easie to ghess what it is , which gives and preserves the reputation of these things in the roman church ; for if this saint had dyed before her design brake forth , we might have heard of her wounds in the roman breviary , as well as those of st. francis , and a festival might have been kept in commemoration of her sanctity , and her self as religiously invocated as the rest of the popes making . but supposing pope alexander the fourths authority prevailed so much upon the people , to believe that s. francis had the same wounds which christ had , &c. no wonder then , it should be written in the book called , the flowers of s francis , that those only were saved by the blood of christ , who lived before s. francis ; but all that followed , were redeemed by the blood of s. francis. no wonder , this petrus iohannis made the rule of s. francis , to be the very same with the gospel , and that which christ and his apostles lived by : of which s. francis was the greatest observer next to christ and his mother ; and that as christ when he was to reform the world chose twelve apostles ; so s. francis had twelve brethren , by whom the evangelical order was founded ; that those who opposed this order , were the carnal persecuting clergy , in whom the seat of the beast is much more , than in the people ; that in the time of this mystical antichrist , the carnal church shall oppose the doctrine , life and zeal of the saints , and burn as it were with fire against them ; but it shall be dryed up from all spiritual wisdom , and grace , and the riches of christ , and be exposed to errors and delusion as it was with the iews and greeks . those who will not take the pains to see how faithfully i have translated these words out of eymericus , would imagine i have borrowed some of the canting language of the modern quakers . but he goes on : saying , that as vasthi the queen being cast off from the kingdom and marriage of ahassuerus , the humble esther was chosen to succeed in her place , and the king made a great feast to his princes and servants : so in this last state of the church , the adulterous babylon , the carnal church being rejected , the spiritual church must be exalted , and a great and spiritual feast be kept to celebrate these nuptials with , that under the mystical antichrist , there shall be overturnings and commotions , by which the carnal church shall be terribly stirred up and moved against the evangelical spirit of christ ; but that , the whore of babylon , the carnal church shall fall ; in which time the saints shall preach , saying , from this time it is no longer the church of christ , but the synagogue of satan , and the habitation of devils , which before said in the pride of her heart , i sit as a queen in great honour and glory , i rule over my kingdom , i sit at ease , i am no widow , i. e. i have bishops and kings on my side : that , the roman church is that great whore spoken of in the revelations , which hath committed fornication with this world , having departed from the worship , and sincere love , and the delights of christ her spouse ; and embraced the world , the riches and pleasures of it , and the devil , and kings , and princes , and prelates , and all the lovers of this world . that , the teachers of this spiritual state , are more properly the gates to lead men into the wisdom of christ , than the apostles themselves . these things are expresly delivered concerning the doctrine of this franciscan fryer by the inquisitor eymericus ; i know , wadding in his franciscan annals to preserve the reputation of his order , would clear him from all suspicion of heresie , but i suppose the credit of an inquisitor having such opportunities to know the truth , so near his own time , and having the examination of many of his followers , is to be relyed on rather than the testimony of one at such a distance , and partial for the honour of his order . especially that being considered which possevin saith of eymericus , that most of his accounts of the times a little before his own were the very same with what was contained in a manuscript in the vatican library both as to order and words ; which is though to have been brought from avignon to rome , where he was made inquisitour general by gregory . a. d. . but it is not denyed by wadding or others , that the beguini and fratricelli , the beguardi and others were his followers ; and we shall find so great an agreement in their opinions , that it would be strange they should be accounted the disciples of any other . eymericus gives this account of them , that in the time of clement . there arose in the province of narbonne , one petrus iohannis a franciscan fryer , who published by writing and preaching a great many errours and heresies in the same province , and drew many after him , who had spread themselves over france , italy , germany , and other places , and continued in his time , being daily searched for , condemned by the inquisitours . they all agreed that their doctrine was from god by immediate inspiration ; and that all the writings of petrus johannis were revealed to him from the lord and that he had declared this to some of his friends ; that he was so great a doctor that from the time of the apostles and evangelists , there have been none greater than he in learning and holiness : and that his writings , theirs only excepted ( wherein they fell short of the former sect ) were the most useful to the church . § . . their doctrines may be reduced to these four heads , . evangelical poverty . . unlawfulness of swearing . . the doctrine of perfection . . opposition to the carnal church . which being joyned with that greater degree of light which they supposed themselves to have above all the rest of the world , makes up a sect of quakers after the order of st. francis. . their doctrine of evangelical poverty ; about which they said , that our lord iesus christ as man , and his apostles had nothing in proper , or in common , because they were perfectly poor in this world ; and that this is perfect evangelical poverty ; but the enjoying any thing though in common takes off from the perfection of it ; and that the apostles themselves could not without sin have any property in any thing , and that it is heresie to say otherwise ; therefore the rule of st. francis prescribing this poverty was that which christ observed and prescribed to his apostles , and was the same with the gospel of christ , and therefore whosoever addes to it , or takes from it ( be it the pope himself ) he is a heretick in so doing : on which account they condemned iohn . and all the prelates and fryers for heresie , who opposed this doctrine . for we are not to imagine a doctrine so contrary to the beloved interests of the roman church , should escape opposition : nay it was so far from it , that it immediately caused a breach in their own order . for as papirius massonus well observes from petrarch , none hate poverty more than they who profess it most ; and the franciscan order had gotten into their hands goodly possessions , and built magnificent houses , and laid up great provisions of corn and wine ; which these followers of petrus iohannis declare against as directly contrary to the rule which they professed , being the strictest poverty ; which this was as like as hypocrisie is to sincerity , or st. francis to christ. upon this a great division happens in the order : between the brethren that followed petrus iohannis de oliva , who were called the spiritual men , and the brethren of the community ; both parties appeal to clement . alexander de alexandriâ , general of the order appears in behalf of the community , and vbertinus de casali on the other side : but the spiritual brethren , fearing hard usage at rome and from their other superiours choose new ones to themselves and so make an open schisme . in the council of vienna , a. d. . a decree was made to declare the rule of st. francis , which is extant in the canon law under the title of clementines but this by no means effected a cure ; for the people favouring the dissenters in the province of narbon , they turned out all the brethren of the community ; and took upon themselves new habits to be distinguished from the rest . during this heat gonsalvus general of the order , favouring the stricter fryers dyed at paris , not without suspicion of poison from the looser brethren . iohn . being pope resolves to take a severer course with the dissenters , and a. d. . imployes the inquisitours for that end ; the fruit of which was , that they brake out into a more open schisme and chose one henricus de ceva , or de sena for their general ; and kept their conventicles as iohn . in his constitution , sancta romana , declares , and every day added to their sect. and the more constitutions he published , the greater opposition was made , in so much that michael de caesena , gul. ockam and others found out heresies at last in them , and plain contradictions to those of his predecessours , especially that of nicolaus . which bellarmin confesseth cannot in all things be reconciled . no fewer than eighteen errours francisc. pegna confesseth he was charged with in one constitution , to which he answered in another decretal not published , in which they found errours , but william ockam went farther , and charged him with no fewer than . a goodly number for an infallible head of the church ! in which there ought to be some allowance for humane frailty , as benedict . his successour pleaded in behalf of nicolaus . when he answered the objections of the fraticelli against iohn , as may be seen in eymericus . and his answers are thought so insufficient by pegna , that he saith there are some doubtful and some false which ought not to be passed over without animadversion , and therefore solemnly invocates god , that he may be able to answer them better : and yet this benedict was accounted a notable divine , for a pope ; which made the dissenters , saith pegna , hate him the more . the substance of his answer which pegna is so much displeased with is , that though nicolaus . had determined contrary to john . yet the former definition being contrary to scripture ought not to stand . thus when popes fall out , the scripture comes by its own ; which is , to be the standing rule of all controversies . . they thought it unlawful upon any occasion to swear ; this iohn . in his decretal , gloriosam ecclesiam , charges them with , and that those were guilty of mortal sin , and lyable to punishment , who were under the obligation of any oath whatsoever : the same is reported by wadding and others concerning them . . the doctrine of perfection was stiffly maintained by them . this spondanus would have to be one of the opinions of the beguardi , whom he distinguishes from the beguini ; but not only eymericus and pegna make them to be the same , but iohn . in the extravagant sancta romana condemns both together , as the title is in eymericus ; and in the body of it , it appears that they went under divers names in several places , being sometimes called fraticelli , sometimes fratres de poenitentia , sometimes fratres de paupere vitâ , sometimes bizochi , sometimes beghini and sometimes beguardi , which latter seems to be the name that they were known in germany most by . eymericus speaking of petrus olerii and bononatus two of the begardi in spain , that were burnt for their heresie by the inquisitour and bishop of barcelona , saith , that they held the opinion mentioned before concerning evangelical poverty , which spondanus thinks peculiar to the beguini . about perfection their opinions were these as alvarus pelagius , ioh. turrecremata , bzovius , spondanus , and raynaldus all agree that a man in this life may attain to so great perfection as to live without sin , that a man who hath attained to such a degree he is above ordinances , i. e. he need not fast and pray as others do ; that , such as are perfect , have the spirit of liberty and are not subject to any humane ordinances either of church or state. that , every intellectual being hath enough within it self to make it happy , or a light within ; so that it doth not need any external light of glory in order thereto . that , to live in the exercise of moral vertues is an argument of a state of imperfection ; and that , one truly perfect is above them . from hence they accounted all actions which were designed to satisfie natural inclinations to be indifferent and so looked on unclean mixtures as no sins . alvarus saith , he saw one of them who was a german , and seemed a very spiritual man , in a very mean habit and looking sowrely with tears in his eyes , and full of raptures , and thought himself a contemplator and a taster ; names not yet taken up by any fanaticks among us . and to let others understand how easily men were imposed upon by visions and raptures among them ; he saith , that he knew a woman who was afterwards known to be naught , that had raptures at her pleasure , whom he had honoured as a saint himself , and the very ground she stood on ; and not only he , but many others , even prelats and cardinals too : by which he saw evidently how easily the devil , could transform himself into an angel of light ; and after saith of the beguinae , that under the shew of sanctity they committed many vile things . a strange instance of the impostures of one of the beguinae , who gained a great reputation for sanctity by her constancy and devotion at prayers , her pretending to raptures and extasies wherein her soul was carried to heaven , her long fastings whereby she imposed upon the bishop , the fryers , and all the people to so great a degree that the bishop was about building a church on purpose to lay her in , that all comers might behold her who led such an angelical life , and how accidentally the imposture was discovered , to the great dissatisfaction of them all , but especially the bishop , is at large related by richerius . . but notwithstanding all this , they had a mighty zeal against the carnal church ; and called all those blind who were not of their way , as eymericus saith of them ; in these ma●ters they followed petrus iohannis of whose opinions about the church we have already spoken ; any that suffered among them were cryed up as martyrs ; and four of the brethren suffering at marseilles a. d. . they said they were so far from suffering as hereticks , that they were as good martyrs as st. laurence , or vincentius ; that christ was spiritually crucified in them ; that all who approved or consented to their death , pope , prelats or others were all hereticks for it , and lost all right of governing the church or administring sacraments , and are out of the church and therefore not in a state of salvation , and they only are the true church . these are the chief of their doctrines , although eymericus reckons up no fewer than fifty five errours and heresies among them . and notwithstanding all the care used by popes and inquisitours against them in the time of clement . iohn . benedict . clement . innocent . and afterwards , they not only continued but spread themselves still further . iohn gerson who lived in the beginning of the next century , mentions not only the doctrines of the everlasting gospel , but those of the begardi , the substance of which he saith is , that a perfect soul being reduced to god , loseth its own will , so that it hath no other will but the divine will , which it had from eternity in that ideal being which it had in god : which being supposed , they say they may do any thing which their affection puts them upon without sin , because they have no will of their own . the way of renouncing their own wills was somewhat different , he tells us ; for the more cunning pretended to do it only to god ; but these prevailed upon the other to renounce their own wills before them ; which when they had done , they told them they could now sin no longer : and so did what they pleased together . under which pretext of renouncing their own wills , all manner of wickedness was committed among them . neither were they only in france , italy , sicily and germany ; but they prevailed much in spain too ; for in the time of benedict in catalonia there were many beguardi saith eymericus , the chief of whom was fryer bonanatus who was burnt for his heresie ; in the time of clement . there arose many of them in the province of valencia whose leader was iacobus iusti , and was therefore immured and so dyed . in the time of innocent . vrban . gregory . appeared in catalonia , one arnoldus montanerius , who publickly preached for nineteen years together , the opinions of the begardi about poverty , and added these of his own , that no one can be damned who wears the habit of st. francis , that st. francis once a year goes down into purgatory , and thence draws the souls of all that have been of his order , and carries them to paradise . these we have from eymericus , who saith that by order of vrban . and greg. . he sate as inquisitour upon him . and lest we should think this sect inconsiderable among them , ludovicus de paramo the inquisitour of sicily declares that the fratricelli , carrying an appearance of sanctity with great poverty drew the hearts of all men to them , and drove john . into great straights , and by the schisme they raised gave a great disturbance to the whole church . neither was it of any short continuance , if we consider the fundamental principles of this sect , which were immediate revelations , renouncing property , and liberty of actions : for so it began with almerick at paris , and we have seen how much afterwards promoted by the mendicant fryers , and especially by those who called themselves of the third order of st. francis , and pretended to far greater strictness as to their rule than others : on which account celestine . a. d. . gave them first liberty to separate themselves from the community , which was afterwards pleaded by the fratricelli , against clement . and iohn . § . . but besides these who before were of this order , others took up the same way and opinions which were never originally of it ; as the followers of geraldus segarelli and dulcinus in italy , who are called fratricelli by platina , by others pseudo-apostolici and dulcinistae . spondanus confesseth those in italy , who were the followers of one hermannus of ferrara to be the same with the fraticelli and beguini ; whose body saith prateolus , after he had been twenty years worshipped for a saint , was by the command of boniface . taken up and burnt for an heretick : ludovicus de paramo saith that it was thirty years after , he had been publickly worshipped by the people of ferrara ; and he reckons up this as one of the great blessings which comes by the inquisition , that they are thereby undeceived in many whom they worship for saints , of which he gives several other instances . but the burning of hermannus bones , did not extinguish the sect of fraticelli there ; the only effect of this severity was , that they grew more numerous and bold , as patreolus and spondanus confess . they kept their conventicles more frequently , and spread the further , insomuch that great multitudes of people fell in with them . among whom as their chief leaders were several of the order of st. francis , as spondanus proves from the extravagant sancta romana of iohn . and of the same sect were the pseud-apostolici , whose chief leaders were geraldus segarelli and dulcinus one of his disciples , the one of parma , the other of novara , these filled all the countrey thereabout with their errours , saith eymericus ; and made an independent congregation among themselves , which acknowledged obedience and subjection , as he adds , to none but god himself , and said that they followed the apostolical rule in a very singular manner . this geraldus saith paramo and his followers by a shew of extraordinary sanctity , drew many to their party : but friar salimbenus ( in a manuscript seen by pegna in the library of cardinal savelli at rome ) being himself a franciscan , gives this account of him , whom he calls gherardinus segalellus , that being desirous to be admitted into their order , he was refused by them , after which he spent some time in the franciscans church , where observing the pictures of the apostles , and the habits they were drawn in ; he put himself as exactly as he could into the very same habit ; and having sold his house and received the money for it , he distributed it all among the people ; and afterwards got a companion who was a servant to the franciscans ; but by degrees their number increased , so that in a short time they spread over many cities in italy : and from thence were dispersed over almost all europe : they went up and down in the streets , saith eymericus , preaching repentance with a white mantel , a white coat , and long hair , barefoot and bareheaded , and what they eat was publickly in the streets , and only what was given to them : after forty years in which they mightily prevailed , boniface . caused gerald to be taken and burnt ; upon this dulcinus with six thousand of his companions retired into the alps , where they increased so much , saith pegna , that clement . was forced to send a croisado against them : where they starved a great part of them ; but dulcinus and his wife margareta , as patreolus calls her , were taken and burnt . it is not credible saith bzovius , how long they endured upon the alps all extremities of hunger and cold , rather than they would yield to their adversaries . but notwithstanding all the endeavours could be used , they could not wholly extinguish that sect , saith prateolus , but the remainders of it were still left in the mountains about trent , and continued to his time , which was about a. d. . these were of the same opinions with the fratricelli before mentioned as to the roman church , that by reason of the wickedness of the clergy and religious orders , it was a reprobate church ; and the whore of babylon ; but being no more content with this , than the greatest fanaticks of our age , they pretended to great things themselves , that they were the only spiritual congregation , sent , and chosen out by god to bear testimony to his truth , in the last ages ; and that they , and only they , had the power which st. peter had ; that geraldus segarelli , was a plant of gods own planting , growing up from the root of faith ; by whom god began the work of reformation of his church , to the purity , perfection , life , state and poverty of the primitive church , in that state wherein christ committed his church to st. peter . that they only are the church of god , and in that perfection wherein the apostles were , and therefore are bound to live in subjection to none , because their rule which was immediately from christ , is free , and hath the greatest perfection , that no one can be saved who is not of their order , that it is a sign any one is in a state of damnation to persecute them : that all the popes from sylvester downward , and all the prelats were impostours and deceivers , excepting only celestine . who renounced his popedome , and gave leave to the spiritual brotherhood to separate from the rest in the franciscan order . that the orders of clergy and religion are dangerous to the church . that no lay-men ought to pay any tithes to priest or prelat , who lives not in the same perfection and poverty which the apostles did . that it was as well to worship god in woods , or stables , or barnes , as in consecrated churches : that it was unlawful for christians to swear at all , saith prateolus , or never but in case of the articles of faith , or the divine commands , say , turrecremata and eymericus , but in all other cases it was lawful to use all aequivocations and mental reservations , and to deny their sect with their mouths , as long as they kept true to them in their hearts . that nothing was unlawful which was done out of a principle of love : and that all things , in the worst sense , were to be common among them ; and therefore they are charged with allowing and practising promiscuous mixtures among themselves , if their adversaries do not charge them as unjustly in this point as the prmitive christians were charged by the heathen . this is the summ of their principles and practices as they are reported by turrecremata , eymericus , prateolus , spondanus , raynaldus , and others . but that which is still observable to our purpose is , that these were looked on as a sort of fryers in the roman church ; for when honorius . condemned them by his bull extant in eymericus , he doth it upon this account , that they were a sort of mendicant fryers not approved by the roman see ; whereas greg. . in the council of lyons had absolutely forbid all orders of mendicants after the lateran council , that should not receive express confirmation from the pope ; but his holiness was informed , that some who called themselves of the apostolical order , had since that time assumed to themselves a new habit of religion without due applications being made to his see , and a great number of these went up and down , as mendicants into many parts of the world , doing unseemly things to their own peril and the scandal of others ; especially some among them being guilty of heresie : therefore all ecclesiastical officers , are required to admonish and compell them to lay down their habits , and to enter themselves among some of the approved religious orders ; and in case of refusal they ought to proceed judicially against them and to deliver them over to the secular power . by which we understand the true ground of the quarrel against them , viz. not yielding subjection enough to the roman see , and how easily all their blasphemies and villanies might be forgiven , if they entred themselves into any of the approved religious orders . § . . as we see all the care used could not root out this sect wholly , but the remainders of them continued in some of the mountains of italy , so i am very much mistaken if the alumbrado's in spain , or the sect of illuminati , were any other than a remainder of the beguini and fraticelli whom we observed before to have got footing there . spondanus indeed and some others from him , say , they were detected in the diocesses of sevil and cadiz , a. d. . and were condemned by andreas pachecus the general inquisitour in spain , in twenty six articles , and the seven chief of them were burnt : but withall he saith , they were not so much a new sect , as a renewal of an old one with some additions . nay we meet with the very same name of the sect long before that : for ludovicus de paramo saith , that several priests were taken by order of the inquisition in the town of lerena , who under pretence of extraordinary illumination from god , did gain upon the people , and spread dangerous opinions among them . and afterwards he particularly describes them under the names of the illuminati , by their pride and disobedience to their superiours , by their obstinate adhering to their illusions , and indulging themselves in their sensual lusts ; all which fully agree to the character already given of the fraticelli , and begardi . for the first , he saith they chose rather to be broken in pieces , than give obedience to their bishops ; for the second he proves , that as long as they gave way to sensual lusts , their illumination could not be from god ; for they who would sleep in the divine light , as he speaks , must have their eye-lids shut as to all worldly vanities and pleasures , therefore we ought to shun such illuminated , or rather blind persons , who transform themselves into angels of light , spreading divers doctrines and revelations which they have ; of whom he interprets the epistle of st. iude. by all that hath been said , this sect seems to be nothing else but gnosticism revived under new shapes and names ; and with a difference of opinions suitable to the age wherein it appeared . spondanus gives this account of the opinions and practices of the modern alumbrado's , that under a pretence of mental prayer and divine contemplation , and union with god ; they despised the use of sacraments , preaching the word of god , and all holy exercises ; and did extol the other so highly , that they said those things would not be sins in them , which were so in others , and by this means committed all impurities . of this sect ignatius loyola was vehemently suspected to be , and upon that account was cast into prison by the inquisition in spain . which maffeius himself doth not deny , that it was upon the account of the illuminati , and his enthusiastical preaching in the streets , that he was questioned . but melchior canus that learned bishop of the canaries puts the matter out of dispute , for in a discourse of his concerning the foundation of the society of iesus , preserved entire in the hands of dominicus canus bishop of cadiz his nephew , and published in part by schioppius , he saith , that the general of that order was one innico who fled out of spain , lest he should be laid hold on by the inquisition , being suspected for the heresie of the illuminati ; and coming to rome he desired to be judged by the pope , where no accuser appearing he was absolved . he gives him the character of a vain man ; for , being once in his company at rome , he presently without any occasion began to boast of his righteousness , and the unjust persecution he had suffered in spain : and spake many and great things of the revelations he had from god , without any necessity ; upon which account he saith , he believed not anything at all concerning them . another day , he adds , when he went to dine with him , he commended one of his brethren for a great saint , who coming into the room where they were , he presently suspected the man to be mad : and when he talked with him about matters of religion , he answered heretically , not out of design , but because he was an ideot , a rude , ignorant fellow . ignatius being confounded at this , said he was no heretick , but a fool ; but he believed he had some lucid intervals ; and at that time by reason of the conjunction of the moon , he was not a very sound catholick . see from what man , the iesuits derive the infallibility of their faith ! but although canus was a person of more learning and judgement than a thousand ignatius 's ; yet the iesuits decry him as very partial against them : for orlandinus in his history of the society complains of him as one of the bitterest enemies they had in the beginning of their society ; for he every where set them forth as the fore-runners of antichrist , and explained the prophecy of them , concerning the men that should be in the last times . wherein it is said , men shall be lovers of themselves , covetous , boasters , blasphemers , &c. traytours , heady , high-minded , lovers of pleasures , more than lovers of god , having a form of godliness , but denying the power thereof : for of this sort are they which creep into houses , and lead captive silly women laden with sins , led away with divers lusts , &c. the same thing ( saith orlandinus and truly ) was charged upon the orders of dominicans and franciscans as well as them : and we shall not quarrel with them which order of them all hath the greatest share in the accomplishment of this prophecy . § . . that which is our present business , is to shew that this order was instituted as the other were upon the credit of visions and revelations ; for ignatius was certainly as ignorant and enthusiastical as st. francis himself ; and to prove this , i shall only make use of those of his own order , who have writ his life , ( maffeius , orlandinus and ribadeneira ) and pursue it no farther than the institution of the order , as i have done with the other . the first remarkable thing in him was that he was converted by reading the legends of the saints , as don quixot began his errantry by reading the old romances : i wonder how ignatius did to read them , for maffeius describes him , as one that had hardly ever learnt his letters : but it is possible st. peter taught him , for they all write that st. peter appeared to him , before he was so far recovered as to be able to read . but his country-man was not more moved with the adventures of former knights ; than ignatius was with the stories of st. dominick and st. francis , for these maffeius tells us , did particularly work upon him ; in so much that before he took up a firm resolution of religious errantry , he would put cases to himself of the difficult adventures of those two illustrious heroes , and found himself to have mettle enough to undertake any of them : and therefore in a fit of zeal one night he gets out of his bed and fell down upon his knees before an image of the b. virgin , and in that posture vowed himself her knight . which is a circumstance so considerable , i admire that maffeius omits it ; as he doth likewise the strange noise in the house , the trembling of the room and the breaking of the glass windows that time : an argument saith orlandinus , that the devil then took his leave of him , although there be some reason to doubt it . after this the v. mary appeared to him with a great deal of glory with her child in her lap ( and all this while , for the vision continued for some time , he thought himself awake ) by which sight he was hugely animated for all his future adventures . the first whereof was to a place of great devotion to the b. virgin , called montserrat , and in the way thither he was like to have begun his first adventure with a moore who allowed the b. virgin to have been so till her delivery , but would not yield it afterwards ; at which ignatius , considering whose knight he was , began to be so inraged , that he thought it necessary to revenge her quarrel upon him , but disputing with himself what to do , and the moore being gone another way , he leaves the cause to the wisdome of the mule , and puts the reines in his neck , that if he followed the moores way at the parting of the two wayes he would have his life , but the good mule understanding his riders mind , left the beaten road and went on to montserrat ; where a remarkable ceremony was performed by him ; for as orlandinus and maffeius expresly say , ignatius having read in books of chivalry , that the ancient knights at their first entring upon that hononourable imployment , were wont to watch all night in their arms ; he thought it fit to begin his errantry in the same manner , he therefore hangs up his sword and dagger before the altar of the b. virgin , and puts on his habiliments , but instead of his shining armour , he had gotten a long coat of sack-cloth , with a cord about it , at which he hangs his bottle for water , and instead of his lance a plain crab-tree staffe , with a wicker shooe upon one foot and the other naked , having no morrion on his head , but exposed that to the violence of the weather . all these habiliments ( having procured them by the way , ) he hung at the pummel of his saddle when he entred the town saith maffeius , ( for fear the people should think him in his wits ) but he puts them not on till he came to the sacred place where he was by the laws of chivalry to watch in them , and so he did , say they , sometimes standing , sometimes kneeling , and devoting himself with all his might to the service of the b. virgin. which having done , early the next morning ( for that is a necessary circumstance too in the adventures of chivalry ) away he goes for manresa , where he takes up his lodging in the town-hospital , and lets his haire and nailes grow , and beggs from door to door ( and yet fasted six dayes in the week ) he whipps himself thrice a day , was seven houres every day in vocal prayer , lay upon the bare ground , and all to prepare himself for his adventures to ierusalem . which sort of life growing very uneasie to him , he was once near saith maffeius , throwing himself out of a window to put an end to it ; but god ( having designed his order for a further punishment to the world ) not permitting that ; not long after he had such clear divine revelations , that in a moment of time , saith maffeius , he understood the greatest mysteries of religion , and the most subtle speculations in philosophy ( especially the way of gods making the world , made clear to him , but not expressible to others ) which other men cannot attain to with the hardest study and pains . in one of his visions , saith orlandinus , while he was repeating the horary prayers of the b. virgin , he saw the b. trinity , as plainly as we do one another , under a corporeal representation , and was so full of joy at it , that he could not hold weeping before all the people , and was so enlightned by it , that although he was yet very ignorant , he began to write a book of the glories of the b. trinity . in one of his extasies he continued eight dayes , in which it is probable , saith the same author , he saw the frame and model of the society of iesuites . a blessed sight ! if he saw all the consequences of it too . after this in order to his voyage to hierusalem , away he goes for barcelona where elizabeth rosella espying him at church sitting among the boyes , she saw a great shining about his mouth , and heard a voice within her , which bid her call that man to her house . while he was in italy in his way to hierusalem , christ appeared to him again at padua , as he was wont to do at manresa : at venice one of the senatours had a vision concerning him , checking him for lying in so much state , while that holy man ignatius lay in the open aire . visions were grown so familiar with him now , that it is to no purpose to recount those which he had at hierusalem , and elsewhere . in his return through italy , the spanish souldiers used him hardly , taking him for a spy , and carryed him to their commander ; now saith orlandinus , it had been his custome not to give men any titles of respect , but to call them only by their common names ; and he questioned a little with himself whether he ought to break that custome now he was to appear before the commander , and resolves it in the negative , because to do it proceeded from too great fear of men : therefore being brought before him , he gives him no testimony of respect either in his words or actions ; and ( both maffeius and orlandinus testifie ) he would not put off his hat to him . by which we understand , who was the first founder of that fanatick sect among us , which is distinguished so much from others , by denying common civilities to men . upon this the commander severely rebuked the souldiers , for bringing a mad man to him , at which they were so enraged , that he might have saved himself the labour of whipping himself that day ; they doing him that office very effectually . being returned to barcelona at thirty three years of age he begins to learn his grammar , but as maffeius observes , he could not have amo in his mouth , but his mind was carried he knew not whither , and was so full of visions all that while , that he could not remember one word that he learnt ; upon which he beggs his master , falling in great humility at his feet ( having it seems more reverence for him , than he had for the spanish officer ) that he would tye him punctually as he did the boys to his lessons , and if he could not say them , that he might be whipt as they were . but as dull as he was at his book , he had so great elevations in his prayers , that ( if we believe him ) one iohn paschal , saith orlandinus , saw him raised up from the ground in a dark night ; but that being a suspicious circumstance , he addes that the room at the same time was filled with a great light . having stayed out his two years at school in barcelona , to the vniversity he goes , where he privately studies logick , physicks , and divinity together , to very little purpose , as maffeius confesseth , and in the mean time preaches and beggs in the streets . here he was several times under examination by the inquisition , and once imprisoned for forty one dayes , out of which he was not dismissed , till they had commanded him not to discourse of divinity again till he had studied four years , and to wear the same habit with other students . upon this he removes to salamanca , where he finds no kinder entertainment , being put into chains in the dungeon and strictly examined ; for here he follows his former course ; he and his companions in an enthusiastical manner ( being meer lay-men , as maffeius acknowledgeth ) going up and down the streets , preaching in all places , and to all sorts of persons ; and being examined by the sub-prior of the dominicans what studies they followed , ignatius very fairly confessed the truth , that they were unlearned . he then asked him , why they took upon them to preach ; ignatius very subtilly told him , they did not preach ; they did only hold forth to the people in a familiar manner concerning vertue and vice , and thereby endeavoured to bring them to the hatred of one and love of the other . the sub-prior told him this was preaching , which no one could pretend to do , but either by learning , or immediate inspiration of the holy ghost ; and since you do not pretend to learning , you must pretend to be inspired . here ignatius finding himself caught ; resolutely denyed to give him any answer , unless he were legally impowred to examine him . say you so , said the dominican ? i will take care of that suddenly : so they were three dayes kept in the convent , and after that by order of the bishop of salamanca , were committed to close prison , where he preached to the people with great zeal , who now flocked in great numbers to him ; and gloried as much in his sufferings , and talked at the same rate , that the ring-leaders of the quakers are wont to do among us . and just with the same resolution , when the rest of the prisoners made their escape by the negligence of the keepers , ignatius and his companions would not stirr : when they were called to answer , ignatius preached at large upon several points of divinity to them , under pretence of answering questions . after twenty two dayes promising to submit themselves to the judgement of the church , they are dismissed , but with a charge in four years time not to meddle with nice cases of conscience , which ignatius took with so much indignation , that he had a present impulse upon his mind to be gone ; and no consideration whatever could hinder him , but away he must go to paris , to see if he could meet with any better success there . and accordingly he begins his journey , driving all his learning before him , which was an asse laden with books , as maffeius relates , and so reaches barcelona , and afterwards arrived safe at paris . where being sensible of his own ignorance and dulness , he resolves to ply his book better , and to that end enters himself among the boyes in the school and begins his grammar again . a sad case ! that after two years schooling at barcelona , being at two vniversities in spain , and having so many revelations , he should be yet so great a dunce that he could not tell the rules of grammar . now he finds it necessary to pray and whip less and to study more . here he finds so cold a reception , that hospitals , begging , help from countrey men , were all little enough to keep him at first from starving ; but however after eighteen months spent in learning a little latin , he applyes himself to philosophy , but the enthusiastick heat of his brain was so great , that he had much adoe to keep his mind to it , but at last he obtained his degree in philosophy after three years and a half study , or at least so much time spent there . then he goes to the dominican school to learn divinity , where he got just enough to keep him from being a heretick ; for so much maffeius his words imply . all this while his enthusiastick head was full of projects in order to the drawing disciples to himself , that he might in imitation of former heroes , found a new order : for this it is apparent he aimed at , and for the sake of this he went through so many difficulties , and pretended so much to enthusiasm , without which he knew his design could not be compassed . orlandinus therefore tells us , that being at antwerp , ( as he used to make excursions sometimes from panis to beg a subsistence ) being in a company of merchants he looked stedfastly upon a young merchant , and ( not knowing what effect such words might have upon him afterwards ) he called him aside , and told him he ought to thank god who had chosen him to build a colledge for the society of iesus in his own countrey . by which it is plain what he designed at that time , before he had yet formed any thing like a society ; and the same author would have men believe that god had then revealed it to him that he should found that society , otherwise , he saith well , no man would have taken so much pains as he did , unless he had such a thing in his head . during his abode at paris , he had prevailed upon three students , and the first thing he perswaded them to , was to give away all that they had and their books too , and to beg their bread ; which caused a great heat in the vniversity , he being suspected to have made them mad , and by force they took them away from the hospital whither he had drawn them . i omit his flying , or rather being carryed as it were in a rapture from paris to rouen , and the joy and extatick expressions he had in it ; his standing up in dirt and mire to the neck , to represent to his companion the filthiness of the sin he lived in , his so narrowly escaping being publickly whipt in the university for seducing the students , that orlandinus makes it almost a miracle : but we are now to take notice that his design being to form a society , he had for that purpose used himself to all the arts of insinuation imaginable , accommodating himself to the humours of the persons he had to do with , endeavouring to oblige all men with expressions of the greatest kindness , bearing all affronts with a wonderful dissimulation , as maffeius describes him . by these arts he labours to get some of the most hopeful students in the university to him , and at last prevailes upon nine to joyne with him : he studies their humours and applies himself accordingly , not acquainting them at first with his design , but by degrees prepares them for it ; among them xaverius at first laughed at him and despised him , but was at last won by his obsequiousness , flattery , and insinuation . and finding his former disciples soon grew weary of him and forsook him , he resolves to tye these faster , and to that end appoints a meeting in a church , dedicated to the b. virgin in the suburbs of paris ; where they all solemnly vow before receiving the eucharist ( none but themselves being present ) either to go to ierusalem , or to offer themselves to the popes service ; which was done a. d. . upon the day of assumption of the b. virgin to whose patronage they particularly devoted themselves . after this ignatius fearing their relapse , kept them together as much as might be , and used all means to prevent any differences happening among them , having now gotten persons to his mind , and for fear the friends of some of his chief confidents in spain should take them off , he offers to go himself and dispatch their business for them . in his return to spain he observes his former course of preaching and begging , and was followed by such a multitude of people that he was fain to preach in the fields , where ( which deserves admiration in so weak and mortified a man ) though he could not raise his voice , yet it was heard distinctly above a quarter of a mile , say orlandinus and ribadeneira , but maffeius more prudently omits it . but he helps us with as good a passage instead of it , ignatius was prevailed upon now by his disciples to make use of a horse in his journey to spain , which when he was come thither he left to an h●spital , which the people looked on with so much reverence that no man durst use him afterwards , but as a consecrated horse was preserved in ease and good pasture all his life time . at venice , at the time appointed , his companions meet him , where they debate their voyage to hierusalem ; and their custome orlandinus saith was this , in any matter of debate , they were to joyne together in prayer , and after seeking god , what opinion the most were of that they resolve upon , which they observed , saith he , till the self-denying ignatius , was , after much seeking god in their way made the general ; and then his will was to rule them : after a years stay about venice ( their courage being now cooled as to hierusalem ) wherein ignatius and the rest that were yet lay-men entred into orders , they determine to go to rome , and submit themselves wholly to the popes pleasure : and in the mean time wander about the countrey , preaching in the streets and market places , and making use of the bulks of shops for their pulpits , and invited the people to hear them , saith maffeius , with a loud voice and whirling their caps over their heads ; and though few understood them , being strangers , yet all admired and commended them , and no doubt they converted many , as their followers have done , from the use of laces and ribbands . all this while , since ignatius began to have any smattering of learning , we read little of his visions and revelations ; but the time coming near that he hoped for a confirmation of his order from the pope ; now saith maffeius , he began to have them again as frequently as he had at manresa ( which in a kind of a religious jest , he saith , he was wont to call his primitive church ) nay he exceeded them : for what he now saw , being above humane nature cannot be expressed ; only one vision did him a great deal of service , which was , that lying in a trance which was frequent with him as well as mahomet , he saw god the father commending ignatius and his brethren to his son iesus bearing his cross ; whom he very kindly received , and spake these words with a smile to ignatius , i will be favourable to you at rome : which gave him and his companions great comfort . at rome , hearing the fame of st. benedict and his revelations , or remembring them in the legends , he withdraws to the same place , monte cassino , and there it fell out luckily ( that he might come behind none of them in visions ) as st. benedict saw the soul of germanus go to heaven , so did he in the very same manner the soul of hozius one of his society ; and a little after as he was praying to the saints he saw hozius among them all . notwithstanding all this , they met with great difficulties at rome ; but pope paul . being throughly satisfied in the main point , of their being serviceable to the interest of that church , all other difficulties were soon conquered , and the pope himself became enthusiastical too , and cryed out , having read , saith maffeius , the first draught of the rules of the society made by ignatius , the spirit of the lord is here , and many things to the same purpose . but one of the cardinals to whom the examination of them was committed still opposing the establishing this order , ignatius flyes to his usual refuges , for besides fastings , prayers , keeping of dayes , &c. he and his friends offered three thousand masses for this end alone : ( and it must be a hard heart indeed that would not yield with so much suppling ) this cardinal all of a sudden quite changed his mind and commended the business himself to the pope : and so the society of iesus was confirmed by the popes bull , octob. a. d. . to the joy of ignatius his heart , and soon after he was made general of the order , which he accepted with as many tears and protestations , and intreaties ( till he plainly saw it was the will of god it must be so ) as ever any vsurper took the government into his hands , which he had most eagerly sought after . and now let the world judge , whether there hath appeared a greater enthusiast or pretender to revelations than ignatius was , since the dayes of mahomet , and st. francis ? methinks they might be ashamed to upbraid us with the fanaticism of the quakers and such persons , the chiefest of whom fall very much short of ignatius , in those very things for which they are condemned by us , yet any one who compares them would imagine , the life of ignatius had been their great exemplar . i know not whether any of that innocent and religious order of iesuits , had any hand in forming this new society among us ( as hath been frequently suggested ) but if one may guesse the father by the childs likeness , ignatius loyola the founder of the iesuits , was at least the grandfather of the quakers . § . . thus i have gone through the most illustrious orders of the church of rome , and shewed how they have been founded on fanaticism , and given encouragement thereby unto it . it remains now that i consider the way of devotion in greatest request among them , and prove that it doth encourage and promote enthusiasme . for this , we are to take notice that those of the church of rome , who have set themselves to the writing books of devotion , have with great zeal recommended so mystical and unintelligible a way of devotion , as though their design had been only to amuse and confound the minds of devout persons , and to prepare them for the most gross enthusiasme and extravagant illusions of fancy . but this is the fruit of leaving the scriptures and that most plain and certain way of religion delivered therein ; there can be no end of phantastical modes of devotion , and every superstitious fanatick will be still inventing more , or reviving old ones . no laws or rules publickly allowed can serve their turn , they must have something peculiar to themselves to gain a reputation of greater sanctity by ; and it is hard , if they do not light upon some affected phrases , unintelligible notions , ridiculous or singular postures , that they may be sure to charge those with following carnal reason who condemn them . and they triumph in nothing more , than when they can handsomely revenge themselves on that bitter enemy of theirs called reason , which they never do with greater pleasure than when they pretend it to be upon the account of religion . in the church of rome the case hath been thus ; among them as in all religions and places in the world , there are some persons of a temper naturally disposed more to religion than others are ; being melancholy , thoughtful , tender , and easily moved by hopes and fears . these do more easily receive the impressions of religion , which they being possessed with , if they be not carefully governed , are more lyable to fall into the dotages of superstition , or to be transported by the heats of enthusiasme . against both of them there can be no better cure imaginable than the true understanding the nature and reasonableness of the christian religion , which fills our minds with a true sense of god and goodness , and so arms us against superstition , and withall acquaints us that the conduct of the spirit of god is in the use of the greatest reason and prudence , and so prevents the follies of enthusiasme . but it being so much the design of that church to keep the members of it from knowing any thing against her interest , so much as the true practice of christianity is , and therefore keeping the bible out of the hands of the people , they must substitute some other wayes in the room of that , to gratifie the earthy dulness of a superstitious temper , and the airiness and warmth of the enthusiastical . for the former , they are abundantly provided by a tedious and ceremonious way of external devotion as dull and as cold as the earth it self ; to the other they commend abstractedness of life , mental prayer , passive unions , a deiform fund of the soul , a state of introversion , divine inspirations , which must either end in enthusiasme or madness . and the perfection of this state lying in an intime vnion with god ( as they speak ) whereby the soul is deified , is to be attained only in the way of unknowing , ( for nothing so dangerous as the use of reason ) and self-annihilation and many other things as impossible to be understood as practised . which makes it difficult to give any account of such unintelligible stuffe , for we must only grope in obscurity and profound darkness , and draw a night piece without lights . this way came first into request in the monastick orders by the examples of their founders , as will easily appear by our former discourse ; but the men who most solemnly preached and divulged it were rusbrochius , suso , harphius , &c. and he who in these latter ages hath gathered together most that had been said before him , and is commended by balthasar corderius and others as a most sublime interpreter of mystical divinity , ludovicus blosius , from these it were not difficult to put together some of their words and phrases as an account of their divinity ; but i rather choose to do it , chiefly from a late author published by mr. cressy not many years since , who after his many turnings and changes of opinions sits down at last ( as appears by his publishing mother iuliana's revelations and the preface to sancta sophia ) with the deserved character of a popish fanatick . which book of sancta sophia being compiled by mr. cressy out of many writings of father augustin baker , and set forth a. d. . with large approbations at the beginning and end of it , i hope no doctrine contained therein will be thought a scandal to their church . the design of it is as the title tells us , to give directions for the prayer of contemplation , &c. i would they had given directions for understanding it in the first place , for if we have no other help than what mr. cressy gives in his preface , we may as well hope to understand the quakers canting as mr. cressy's . let the reader judge by these few passages in his preface . the only proper disposition towards the receiving supernatural irradiations from gods holy spirit is an abstraction of life , a sequestration from all business that concern others ( though it be their salvation ) and an attendance to god alone in the depth of the spirit : and a little after , the lights here desired and prayed for are such as do expel all images of creatures , and do calm all manner of passions , to the end that the soul being in a vacuity , may be more capable of receiving and entertaining god in the pure fund of the spirit . what this pure fund of the spirit means , i had been somewhat to seek for , had not lud. blosius in the preface to his spiritual institution told us , that the deiform fund of the soul , is the simple essence of the soul stamped with a divine impress , or if this be not plain enough , that from whence ariseth a super-essential life : but if yet it cannot be understood , we may be the less troubled at it , since the same author saith afterward , that very few do know that hidden fund of their souls , or believe that they have such a thing within them . it being , it seems , like some very cunning drawer in a cabinet where the main treasure lyes , which the owner himself cannot find out , till it be broken to pieces ; for self-annihilation is necessarily required in order to it . and this super-essential life , as he admirably describes it , is a way of knowing without thoughts , of seeing in darkness , of understanding without reason , of unknowing god by perceiving him , of being melted and brought to nothing first , and then being lost and swallowed up in god ; by which means all created being is put off , and that which is only divine put on , being changed into god , as iron heated into the nature of fire . this being the state of perfection aimed at here in this world , we must now consider the directions given in order to it . to this end in the first place , a contemplative state is commended above an active as more perfect , and more easie , more simple and more secure from all errours and illusions which may be occasioned by an indiscreet use of prayer . where by an active and contemplative state we must not understand what we commonly do by those terms , but the active-state is , the use of reasoning and internal discourse to fix our affections upon god , and expressing it self in sensible devotion and outward acts of obedience to gods will ; the contemplative in the authors language is , seeking god in the obscurity of faith with a more profound introversion of spirit , and with less activity and motion in sensitive nature , and without the use of grosser images ; and such souls are not of themselves , he saith , much inclined to external works ; but they seek rather to purifie themselves and inflame their hearts to the love of god by internal , quiet and pure actuations in spirit , by a total abstraction from creatures , by solitude both external and especially internal , so disposing themselves to receive the influxes and inspirations of god , whose guidance chiefly they endeavour to follow in all things . now , he saith , the security of such a state above the other lyes in this ; that a contemplative soul tending to god , and working almost only with the heart and blind affections of the will , pouring themselves upon god apprehended only in the obscure notion of faith , not enquiring what he is , but believing him to be that incomprehensible being which he is , and which can only be comprehended by himself , rejecting and striving to forget all images and representations of him , or any thing else ; yea transcending all operations of the imagination , and all subtlety and curiosity of reasoning , and lastly seeking an union with god only by the most pure and most intime affections of the spirit , what possibility of illusion or errour can there be to such a soul ? none doubtless : for this is more than a meer sleep of the soul , for all reasoning and images of things being wholly laid aside , there is not so much as a possibility of dreaming left . the next thing he takes notice of , which is very well observed , is that men given to sublime speculations ( or i suppose any who have the use of reason ) are not so capable of it as unlearned persons and women , and therefore father leander à sancto martino , approves the book as containing very sound and wholesome doctrine for the direction of devout souls , and fit and agreeable to our calling and rule , and especially for the use of our dames ; because they might more easily swallow it , as they do pills , without chewing ; and so find not any bitterness in it : which is to the same purpose with that reason baker himself gives , viz. that the perfection of contemplation scarcely at all lyes in the operations of the understanding . a most admirable way of contemplating with the will : but why might it not consist as well in the volition of the understanding as in the contemplation of the will ? the proper end of this contemplative life , he addes , is the attaining to an habitual and almost uninterrupted perfect union with god in the supream point of the spirit ( or rather fund as mr. cressy more mystically calls it ) and such an union as gives the soul a fruitive possession of him and a real experimental perception of his divine presence in the depth and center of the spirit , which is fully possessed and filled with him alone . and lest we should think this were all to be hoped for in this contemplative state , he saith further , that besides this active union wherein the soul her self concurrs , there are others meerly passive , in which god after a wonderful and inconceivable manner affords them interiour illuminations and touches , yet far more efficacious and divine ; in all which the soul is a meer patient and only suffers god to work his divine pleasure in her , being neither able to further or hinder it . the which unions though they last but even as it were a moment of time , yet do more illuminate and purifie the soul , than many years spent in active exercises of spiritual prayer or mortification could do . the steps he sets down in order to this state of perfection , are , . the way of external and imaginary exercises of prayer , in which without a discreet diligence and constancy in them , the soul may perhaps end her dayes therein . a sad case , to end our dayes as christ and his apostles did , who used this low dispensation of praying to the last ! but alas , they never understood these passive unions with god in the fund of the spirit , they taught men a plain and intelligible way of serving god , and bid them look for perfection in another world . . aspirations and pure elevations of the superiour will. . the divine inaction . . then when one would least expect them , follow , woful obscurities and desolations : and after them ; . comes the state of perfection . elsewhere he describes the progress towards this state of perfection thus , that he who would come to it must practise the drawing of his external senses inwardly to his internal , there losing and as it were annihilating them ; then he must draw his internal senses into the superiour powers of the soul : and there annihilate them likewise ; and those powers of the intellectual soul he must draw into that which is called their unity , and lastly that vnity which alone is capable of perfect union with god must be applied and firmly fixed on god ; wherein the perfect divine contemplation lyes . in which union , he saith , all is vacuity or emptiness , as if nothing were existent but god and the soul ; yea so far is the soul from reflecting on her own existence , that it seems to her , god and she are not distinct , but one only thing . this is called by some mystick authors the state of nothingness ; by others ( it being indifferent it seems among them ) the state of totality ; but the most sublime description of it , is that of the vnion of nothing with nothing : which being hard terms to be understood he explains them thus , that the soul being no where corporally or sensibly , is every where spiritually and immediatly united to god this infinite nothing . by which it is just as intelligible as it was before . nay ; which i think is the highest state of all , it is , that the soul comes to a feeling of her not being , and by consequence of the not being of creatures ; the which is indeed a real truth : or else intolerable nonsense ; as we cannot think it otherwise , who know we have cause to thank god , we are yet in our wits , and are not possessed with such a spiritual frenzy , as this author saith , fryer bernard one of the disciples of st. francis had ; neither was the other free from it , who as baker related , in the heat of his interiour affection , could usually cry out nothing but v. v. v. neither can any persons who have any use of their understandings left , think such discourses the effect of any thing but the height of enthusiasm or a religious madness . i do not think such expressions as those i have already produced can be paralleld by the most frantick enthusiasts that have been since the beginning of the family of love . yet these books are licensed , approved , nay admired in the roman church , whereas we have alwayes disowned , disproved , and condemned any such writers among us , and have used all care to suppress and confute them . the plain effect of such enthusiastick fooleries is to make religion laughed at by some , despised by others , and neglected by all , who take no other measures of it , than from such confounded writers . if once an unintelligible way of practical religion , become the standard of devotion , no men of sense and reason will ever set themselves about it , but leave it to be understood by mad-men and practised by fools . § . . but supposing this way were intelligible and practicable which it is not ; yet what would the effect of it be but the highest enthusiasm ? for the same author layes it down , as a fundamental rule , that god only by his holy inspirations is the guide and directour , in an internal contemplative life , and that all the light they have therein is from immediate divine illumination : as well as our strength from the divine operation : and that this light doth extend further and to more and other more particular objects than the divine light or grace , by which good christians living common lives in the world are lead , extends to , yea than it does even in those that seek perfection by the exercises of an active life . but which is very extraordinary in this supernatural light , he saith that generally when there is proposed the not doing or doing of an external work , and both of them are lawfull , the divine inspiration moves to the not doing ; but this is not all , but among the impediments to divine inspirations he reckons , not only all external duties of religion , but the doing things meerly for edification . a most excellent and apostolical doctrine ! but it is happy for the christian world the apostles had other kind of inspirations from these : or else they had never done much good in the world , or been such eminent examples of holy life and actions . what becomes of all the precepts they have left us of doing good , of mutual edification , of constant business , besides the commands for the outward duties of worship , if these be the hinderances in the way to perfection ? and although he would not have his spiritual , internal liver to pretend to extraordinary apparitions , voices , conversations with spirits , message from heaven , &c. yet in his discourse of passive vnions , he saith , that god reveals himself to the soul by a supernatural species impressed in her , which revelations are either sensible as apparitions , words , &c. or intellectual either immediately or by angels ; the effects of which supernatural inactions of god are rapts or extasies , internal visions , &c. in which , he saith , that the less experienced and imperfect are to advise with their directour about them , but those who were more eminently perfect have followed their own light in judging of those things and practising accordingly , without consulting others ; and withall addes , that such souls which receive these things must carefully observe her internal direction : and that they are not so absolutely obliged to resign their judgements and wills to others , as to neglect their own proper call received from god. and doth this doctrine now differ from that of the fanatick sectaries which have swarmed in england ? yes . mr. cressy in his preface undertakes at large to shew the difference : by answering the objection taken from thence against the publishing this doctrine , because it would justifie them in all their frenzies and disorders : and in order to this ; . he very foolishly goes about to prove the necessity of divine inspirations ; from the necessity of divine grace , for the doing good actions ; which is not denyed by the greatest enemies to enthusiasme . . he saith , we ought to correspond to those divine inspirations which stirr us up to good actions , if he means by them nothing but the assistance of divine grace , no one questions it . . that there may be false suggestions of the devil , which may appear like the motions of gods spirit . . that , it being necessary these should be distinguished from each other ; the only means imaginable , that can be proper , natural , and efficacious to obtain such a supernatural light to discern gods will in all things as pure spiritual prayer exercised by a soul living an abstracted , internal , recollected life , spent in a continual attendance on god , &c. i. e. in short , the directions of f. augustin baker . and is not this , think we , a very cunning way of vindicating his doctrine from fanaticism , to make enthusiasm necessary to distinguish the motions of the good , and bad spirit in our minds ? i have already shewed that he teaches the highest enthusiasm , and it seems those who made the objection were sensible of it . but how doth mr. cressy answer it ? by shewing what they condemn , to be necessary ; and in effect that no man can know the difference between the motions of the holy ghost and the devil , but by enthusiasme ; nay , that is the plain meaning of his words ; for this contemplative prayer , he saith , is the only means to gain such a supernatural light whereby we can distinguish one from the other . an admirable way ! to tell men they must first be mad , before they can know whether they be in their wits or no. but since this contemplative state , hath besides the common though immediate illuminations , many passive unions , or extraordinary revelations attending it , suppose the question were put how one should know whether these came from god , or the devil , what answer will mr. cressy then give ? will he return back again to try illuminations by inspirations ( as he calls them ) and so inspirations by illuminations , which is just like the scripture by the church , and the church by scripture ? but here , saith mr. cressy , is no pretending to new or strange revelations , no walking in mirabilibus super se : yes i think he doth so , when he utters these things ; for what are passive unions , but new revelations , and as great as ever any fanatick sectary pretended to ? did not they deliver this for their doctrine , that men ought to hearken to the immediate impulses of the spirit of god within them , and that now god doth acquaint his own people with his mind and will in a way peculiar to themselves ? and what have they done of the mystical way , but only changed a few terms , and asserted the thing it self higher than our enthusiasts did , who did not boast of so many raptures , visions , and revelations as those of the church of rome have done . lud. blosius in his works hath one book called monile spirituale , which consists of nothing but the new and strange revelations which were made to four women saints st. gertrude , st. mathildis , st. bridgitt , and st. catharine ; and in his preface saith , it is a sign of a carnal mind to despise such revelations as these are : for the church of god is wonderfully enlightned by them . what , saith he , did not the prophets and apostles receive truth from heaven by revelations ? as though the case were the very same in these melancholy women and in the holy prophets and apostles : and we had just as much reason to believe the effects of hysterical vapours and the divine spirit . and lest we should imagine these were only the fancies of some women , which their church would not be concerned for the credit of , he concludes with saying , that these revelations were known to the world and approved . for those of st. bridgitt we have before shewed how much they were approved ; for st. gertrudes , he saith the same ; and that one very learned and illuminate man did say after the accurate reading of them , that man could not have the spirit of god , who questioned whether those revelations came from it or no. and therefore blosius is so far from denying any new or strange revelations among them , that , being a devout man , he prays god to pardon those who questioned the authority of these revelations . but if no new revelations are allowed among them , what means that saying in the spiritual exercises of the iesuits , p. , . of the impression , a. d. . it is the great perfection of a christian to keep himself indifferent to do what god shall reveal to him , and not to determine himself to do what he hath already revealed and taught in the gospel . this is speaking to the purpose ; and lest i should seem to charge any unjustly , ( this passage not appearing in the latter impressions ) it may be found in the moral practice of the iesuits , from the bishop of malaga . but the iesuits are not so much mr. cressy's friends that he should be concerned in their vindication : i can tell him therefore of a friend of his , whom i am sure he is concerned for , that is for new and strange revelations too , and that is the worthy publisher of the sixteen revelations of mother iuliana : and if those be not new and strange , i think none ever ought to be accounted so . but supposing they have new and strange revelations among them , yet mr. cressy saith , they are not seditious and troublesome to the world , no dissolving unity or crossing lawful authority by them ; because these are enjoyed in solitude and retirements , and supposing they be mistaken , no harm would accrew to others by it . as though persons were ever the less mad for being chained , and having a keeper assigned them : such in effect do they make the office of a confessour to these contemplatives . the mischief to the world is not so great while they are kept up , but that to religion is unsufferable , while they lead devout persons in such an unintelligible way , that the highest degree of their perfection is madness . but i have already proved at large , that they have not been able in some cases , or willing in others to keep up these enthusiastical persons among them , but they have done as much to the disturbance of the peace , and been as unreclaimable among them , as ever any fanatick sectaries have done or been in england . and we are not to think that the principles of their church are such quiet , meek and obedient things , that not a man among them would ever lift up his finger to give any disturbance to the peace of a nation : for , § . . i now come to prove that they are as much guilty of the second sort of fanaticism as any sectaries among us have been , which is the resisting authority under a pretence of religion . this i shall prove by two things . . that the principles and practices of the iesuitical party in the roman church are as destructive to government , as of the most fanatick sectaries which ever have been among us . . that this party is the most countenanced and encouraged by the court of rome . . that the principles and practices of the iesuitical party in the roman church are as destructive to government as of the most fanatick sectaries which ever have been among us . what effects of fanaticism have we seen in england so dreadful which may not be paralled with examples , or justified by the principles of that party ? is it , that so many mens lives have been destroyed under a pretence of religion ? and do they think the massacre at paris and the rebellion in ireland can ever be forgotten by us ? is it , that government was supposed by them to be so originally in the people , that they by their representatives may call their soveraign to an account , and alter the form of government ? this is the express doctrine of the iesuits : for , saith bellarmin , civil power is immediately in the people as the immediate subject of it : and is indifferently transferred by them either to one or many ; and if they see cause may change it as they see good from a monarchy , to an aristocratie or a democratie . but because after the writing that book , some persons had published a doctrine contrary to his , therefore in the recognition of his works he endeavours to strengthen what he had delivered , and produces a saying of navarre , that the people never do transferr their power so far to the king , but they retain it habitually in themselves , and may in certain cases resume it into their own hands . iohn mariana , whose name will never be forgotten in these matters , determines the case plainly , that if there be no hope of a princes amendment , the common-wealth may take away his kingdom , and because that cannot be done without war , they may raise armies against him , and having proclaimed the king their publick enemy may take away his life . reynolds in his book of the just abdication of henry . of france , saith that all the majesty of the kingdom is in the assembly of the states , to whom it belongs to bridle the kingly power , and to settle all things that belong to the publick government . this is a doctrine fitted for such a season wherein there is hopes to prevail upon a considerable party ( as in the league in france ) to do their business , but in case the states of the kingdom be faithful to their prince , they have easier wayes of dispatch . and to this end they declare it lawful for any person to take away the life of a prince excommunicated by the pope . but here their juggling and shuffling shew their meaning is not good , for they who mean honestly are not afraid to speak plainly . if any one ask them , whether it be lawful to kill their soveraign ? they will tell you by no means , and that none of them ever said so ; but being excommunicated they do not account him their soveraign , and so they may lawfully do it . nay it is avowed by some of them , that it is a point of faith to believe it is in the popes power to depose heretical princes , and that subjects are upon their being declared heretical thereby absolved from all duty of obedience to them . nay that there needs no sentence of the pope to be pronounced against him : and mariana makes an intention of publick good , or , the advice of grave men sufficient , such as the jesuites in france were to clement , chastel , and ravaillac , the first and last the actual murtherers of henry . and henry . and the second shewed his good intention when he stabbed henry . in the mouth . if any priest or fryer should attempt it , they have an excellent salvo for him , that being a spiritual person ( acording to their doctrine of exemption ) he is no subject to the king. if the authority of the council of constance be objected by them as the doctrine of their church against these principles , they have withall given us an answer , that it meddles not with the case of soveraign heretical princes excommunicated by the pope . i need not produce the particular testimonies in this matter of bellarmin , suarez , valentia , vasquez , with the herd of the iesuitical order who follow these , having been produced by so many already , and particularly by the two worthy authors of the answer to philanax , and the papists apology , from the latter of whom , we shortly expect a more accurate examination of these things : and by the former , may appear what influence the iesuitical party had upon the most barbarous effects of fanaticism here , in the murther of a most excellent prince . to whose observations i shall only adde this , that a. d. . a book was printed with this title several speeches delivered at a conference concerning the power of parliament to proceed against their king for misgovernment , licensed by gilb. mabbot , which is , word for word , taken out of parsons the iesuites book of succession to the crown of england , ( purposely designed against our kings title ) as will appear to any one who will take the pains to compare them . by which we may see to whom our fanaticks owed their principles and their precedents , and how much father parsons ( though at that distance ) contributed to the cutting off the kings head. but it may be now they have changed their principles and renounced all these doctrines ; we should like them so much the better if they once did this freely and sincerely , and not with sly tricks and aequivocations which they use in these matters whenever they are pinched with them . let them without mental reservations declare but these two points , that the pope cannot absolve the kings subjects from the oath of allegiance they make to him , and that though the pope should excommunicate the king as a heretick and raise war against him , they are bound to defend the king against the pope ; and by the owning these two propositions , they will gain more upon our belief of their fidelity , than the large volumn in vindication of the irish remonstrance hath done ; for there they falter in the very entrance ; for being charged from rome , that by their remonstrance they had fallen under the condemnation of the bull of paul . against the oath of allegiance , they give these three answers which ought to be considered by us . . that in the oath of allegiance they swear and testifie in their consciences before god and the world , that king charles is their lawful king , and that the pope hath no power to depose , &c. whereas they only acknowledge it . . that in the oath of allegiance , the contrary opinion is condemned which is not in theirs . . that in the oath of allegiance , they declare that they believe that the pope cannot dispense with that oath or any part of it ; but this is omitted by them : and surely not without reason on their parts , but with little satisfaction on ours . and it is easie to observe that this remonstrance was grounded upon this , that the pope owned our king to be lawful king of england ( a great kindness ) and this being supposed all the rest follows naturally as they well prove against the divines of lovain ; but suppose it should come into his holiness's head , to be of another opinion , we see no assurance but they will be so too . and it may make the pope more cautious for the future , how he declares himself when such ill use is made of it ; and others how they rely upon such remonstrances which have still a tacit reservation of the popes power to declare and dispense . but will they declare it unlawful to resist authority when the cause of their church is concerned ; and supposing that thereby they can settle the pope in the full exercise of his spiritual authority among us ? no , this is their good old cause that undermines parliaments , that sanctifies rebellion , and turns nuptials into massacres . this is that which changes blood into holy water , and dying for treason into martyrdome ; this is that which gives the glory at rome to regicides , and makes the pictures of gueret , guignard and garnet so much valued there ; of which we have a sufficient testimony from mons. s. amour ; who tells us that among the several pourtraicts of jesuits publickly sold there with permission of the superiour , he saw one of garnet , with this inscription , pater henricus garnetus anglus londini pro fide catholicâ suspensus & sectus maii . father henry garnet hanged and quartered at london for the catholick faith : by which we see that treason and the catholick faith are all one at rome ; for nothing can be more notorious than that garnet suffered only on the account of the gunpowder-treason ; of which as m. s. amour observes , he acknowledged himself guilty before he dyed . the most dangerous sect among us , is of those who under pretence of setting up the kingdom of christ , think it lawful to overturn the kingdoms of the world. but herein they have mightily the advantage of those of the church of rome , that what they do for christ , the other do it only for his vicar : and surely if either were lawful , it is much fitter to do it for one , than for the other . we are of opinion that it is somewhat better being under christs own government than the popes whatever they think ; but we condemn any opposition to government under any pretence whatsoever ; and though venner and his company acted to the height of fanaticism among our sectaries , yet guido faux with his companions in their church went beyond them . . that party which hath been most destructive to civil government , hath had the most countenance and encouragement from rome . of which i shall give but two instances but sufficient to prove the thing , a. d. . of december iohn chastel a citizens son of paris , and disciple of the iesuites , having been three years in the school , watched his opportunity to stabb henry . but by his stooping just at the time of the blow , he struck him only into the mouth ; upon which the iesuits were banished france , and a pyramid erected in their place of his fathers house , in the front whereof towards the palace gate , the arrest of the court of parliament against the traitor was engraven , containing his examination and confession of being a scholler of the iesuits , a disciple of guerets , and the sentence passed upon him because he believed it lawful to kill kings , that henry . was not in the church till he was approved by the pope , &c. this arrest continued without notice taken of it at rome , till october . a. d. . and on that day it was condemned by the order of the inquisition and put into the index expurgatorius , as it is at this day to be seen . which was a time wherein many reports were fled abroad in many parts of the murther of henry . and letters came to paris from several places to know the truth of it ; and the consequence of this was , that it being found how careful the court of rome was to preserve the honour of regicides , it was but seven months and twenty four dayes , before ravaillac perfected that work which the other had begun . this observation i owe to an ingenuous and learned doctor of the sorbon yet living , who detests these practices and doctrines , and himself lyes under the same censure there . and the more to abuse the world , on the same day a book of mariana's was suspended , which those who look no farther than the name might imagine , was the dangerous book so much complained of ; but upon search it appears to be a book quite of another nature concerning coynes . the latter instance concerns the irish remonstrance , the account of which i take from caron the publisher of it . the popish clergy of ireland ( a very few excepted ) were accused of rebellion , for opposing themselves to the kings authority , by the instigation of the popes nuncio , after which followed a meeting of the popish bishops , where they banished the kings lieutenant and took the royal authority upon themselves , almost all the clergy and a great part of the people joyned with them : and therefore it was necessary since the kings return to give him better satisfaction concerning their allegiance , and to decline the oath of allegiance , which they must otherwise have taken , some of them agree upon this remonstrance to present to the king , the news of which was no sooner come to rome , but cardinal barberin sends a letter to the irish nobility july a. d. . to bid them take heed of being drawn into the ditch by those blind guides ; who had subscribed to some propositions testifying their loyalty to the king , which had been before condemned by the apostolick see. after this the popes nuncio at brussels , iuly . . sends them word how displeasing their remonstrance was at rome , and that after diligent examination by the cardinals and divines , they found it contained propositions already condemned by paul . and innocent . and therefore the pope gave him order to publish this among them , that he was so far from approving their remonstrance , that he did not so much as permit it , or connive at it , and was extremely grieved that the irish nobility were drawn into it , and therefore condemned it in this form , that it could not be kept without breach of faith , according to the decree of paul . and that it denyed the popes authority in matters of faith according to that of innocent . by this very late instance we see what little countenance they receive from rome who offer to give any reasonable security to the king of their loyalty ; and by the popes own declaration , the giving of it is an injury to the faith , and a denying his supremacy . for which we are to understand that a. d. . when the papists were willing to make as good terms for themselves as they could , and it was objected to them , that they held principles inconsistent with civil government , viz. that the pope can absolve them from their obedience , that he can depose and destroy heretical magistrates , that he can dispense with all oaths and contracts they make with those whom they call hereticks ; upon which they met together and to save themselves from banishment resolved them in the negative , but no sooner was this heard at rome , but the sacred congregation condemned this resolution as heretical , and the subscribers as lyable to the penalties against those who deny the popes authority in matters of faith , upon which they are cited to appear at rome , and censures and prisons are there prepared for them . the summ of it then , is , that they can give no security of their loyalty to the king against the popes power to depose him , and absolve his subjects from whatever oaths they make to him , or they must be accounted hereticks at rome for so doing . for this good old cause is as much still in request at rome , as ever : and it is in their power to be accounted hereticks at rome , or bad subjects in their own countrey ; but one of them they cannot avoid . so much may suffice to shew that the most dangerous principles of fanaticism either as to enthusiasm or civil government are owned and allowed in the church of rome ; and therefore the number of fanaticks among us is very unjustly charged upon the reading the scriptures in our own language . chap. v. of the divisions of the roman church . the great pretence of vnity in the church of rome considered . the popes authority the fountain of that vnity ; what that authority is which is challenged by the popes over the christian world ; the disturbances which have happened therein on the account of it . the first revolt of rome from the empire caused by the popes ; baronius his arguments answered . rebellion the foundation of the greatness of that church . the cause of the strict league between the popes and the posterity of charles martel . the disturbances made by popes in the new empire : of the quarrels of greg. . with the emperour and other christian princes , upon the pretence of the popes authority . more disturbances on that account in christendome , than any other matter of religion . of the schisms which have happened in the roman church : particularly those after the time of formosus , wherein his ordinations were nulled by his successours , the popes opposition to each other in that age : the miserable state of that church then described . of the schisms of latter times , by the italick and gallick factions , the long continuance of them . the mischief of those schisms on their own principles . of the divisions in that church about matters of order and government . the differences between the bishops and the monastick orders about exemptions and priviledges ; the history of that controversie and the bad success the popes had in attempting to compose it . of the quarrel between the regulars and seculars in england . the continuance of that controversie here and in france . the jesuits enmity to the episcopal order and jurisdiction : the hard case of the bishop of angelopolis in america . the popes still favour the regulars , as much as they dare . the jesuits way of converting the chinese discovered by that bishop . of the differences in matters of doctrine in that church . they have no better way to compose them than we . the popes authority never truly ended one controversie among them . their wayes to evade the decisions of popes and councils . their dissensions are about matters of faith . the wayes taken to excuse their own differences will make none between them and us , manifested by sancta clara's exposition of the articles . their disputes not confined to their schools , proved , by a particular instance about the immaculate conception ; the infinite scandals , confessed by their own authors , to have been in their church about it . from all which it appears that the church of rome can have no advantage in point of vnity above ours . . § . . the other thing objected , as flowing from the promiscuous reading the scriptures , is , the number of our sects , and the disturbances which have been among us upon their account : whereas among them the government of the church is so ordered as to keep all in peace and vnity . this makes it necessary to examine that admirable vnity they boast so much of ; and either they mean by it , that there hath been less disturbance in the world before the reformation , or no schisms among themselves , or no differences in the matters of religion . but i shall now prove : . that there have never been greater disturbances in the world than upon the account of that authority of the pope , which they look on as the foundation of their vnity . . that there have happened great and scandalous schisms among themselves on the same account . . that their differences in religion both as to matter of order and doctrine have been as great and managed with as much animosity as any among us . . the disturbances in the world upon the account of the popes authority : i meddle not barely with his usurpations , ( which work is lately and largely done , ) but the effects of them in these western churches . for which we are to consider what authority that is , which the pope challenges , and what disturbances hath been given to the peace of christendome by it . the authority claimed by the pope , is that of being vniversal pastor over the catholick church , by vertue of which not only spiritual direction in matters of faith , but an actual jurisdiction over all the members of it doth belong unto him . for otherwise they say the government of the church is imperfect and insufficient for its end ; because princes may easily overthrow the unity of the church by favouring hereticks , if they be not in subjection to the pope as to their temporal concernments , because it may happen that they have a regard to no other but these ; if it were not therefore in the popes power to depose princes and absolve subjects from their alleagiance , when they oppose the vnity of the church , his power , say they , is an insignificant title , and cannot reach the end it was designed for . besides they urge , that all princes coming into the church are to be supposed to submit their scepters to christ , so as to lose them in case they act contrary to the catholick church , of which they are made members : for whosoever doth not hate father and mother , &c. cannot be my disciple . and what officer is there so fit to take all escheats and forfeitures of power as christs own vicar upon earth ? but to adde more strength , bellarmin very prettily proves it out of pasce oves , for every pastor must have a threefold power to defend his flock , a power over wolves to keep them from destroying the sheep , a power over the rams that they do not hurt them , and a power over the sheep to give them convenient food ; now , saith he , very subtilly , if a prince of a sheep should turn a ram or a wolf , must not he have power to drive him away , and to keep the people from following him ? this is then the only current doctrine concerning the popes authority in the court of rome , although some mince the matter more than others do , and talk only of an indirect power , yet they all mean the same thing , and ascribe such power to the pope , whereby he may depose princes and absolve subjects from the duty they owe to them . and how much in request this doctrine continues at rome appears by the counsel given by michael lonigo , master of the palace , to pope greg. . printed a. d. . about perswading the duke of bavaria then newly made elector to receive a confirmation of his title from the pope ; to which end , he saith , some skilful person ought to be imployed to acquaint him , that the power of the empire was the meer issue of the church , and did spring from it as a child from the mother , and that it was a great sin for any christian to call this into question ; and consequently the popes power and authority to determine concerning the state and affairs of the empire , and this he attempts to prove by no fewer than nineteen arguments , all of them drawn from the former usurpations of the popes and encroachments upon the empire : from whence he concludes that the electorship could not be lawfully taken away from one and given to another , without the popes consent and authority , and that such a disposal of it was in it self null , and of no force . the same year came forth a book of aphorisms concerning the restoring the state of the church , by the decree and approbation of the colledge of cardinals , collected by the same person and by him presented to the pope ; wherein the same power of the pope is asserted , and that it belongs to him to transferr the electoral dignity from one to another ; and that it ought to be taken away from the electors of saxony and brandenburg for opposing his authority , and that to allow the emperour authority in these things was to rob the apostolick see of its due rights . by which we may understand what that authority over the church is , which is challenged by the pope as supream pastour in order to the preserving the unity of it . § . . we now consider what the blessed effects of this pretended power hath been in the christian world ; and i doubt not to make it appear that this very thing hath caused more warrs and bloodshed , more confusions and disorders , more revolts and rebellions in christendome , than all other causes put together have done , since the time it was first challenged ; and this i shall prove from their own authors , and such whose credit is the greatest among them . the revolt of rome and the adjacent parts from the subjection due to the roman emperour , then resident at constantinople , was wholly caused by the pope . the first pope saith onuphrius , that ever durst openly resist the emperour was constantine . who opposed philippicus in the matter of images , which the emperour commanded to be pulled down because they were abused to idolatry , and the pope utterly refused to obey ; and not only so , but set up more in opposition to him in the pertico of st. peter , and forbad the use of the emperours name and title in any publick writings or coines . the same command was not long after renewed by leo . upon which , saith onuphrius , gregory . then pope took away the small remainder of the roman empire from him in italy : and sigonius more expresly , that he not only excommunicated the emperour , but absolved all the people of italy from their alleagiance , and forbad the payment of any tribute to him ; whereupon the inhabitants of rome , campania , ravenna , and pentapolis , i.e. the region about ancona , immediately rebelled , and rose up in opposition to their magistrates whom they destroyed . at ravenna , paulus the emperours lieutenant or exarch was killed ; at rome , peter the governour had his eyes put out , in campania , exhilaratus and his son hadrian were both murdered by the people of rome , and not content with this , he writ a letter to the emperour full of the greatest reproaches imaginable . baronius is here very hard put to it , to vindicate the pope , for he confesses the rebellion of the people was occasioned by the popes opposing the emperour , and commends their zeal for religion in it , and acknowledgeth that the emperour laid all the blame on the pope , and that the greek historians , theophanes , and zonaras do so too ; but all this he saith proceeded only from their spight against the roman church and their ignorance of affairs in it ; but if we believe him , the pope rather endeavoured to keep them in obedience to the emperour , and when they would have chosen another he opposed it : which he proves from paulus diaconus and anastasius . but what is that to the business ? the question is not , whether the pope did not hinder the choosing another emperour , but whether he did not draw the people off from their obedience to the emperour that then was ? and this is not only affirmed by the greek historians ; but by those of the roman church . sigebert saith , that gregory . finding the emperour incorrigible , he made rome , italy and all the west to revolt from him , and forbad his tributes : the same is affirmed by otto frisingensis , conradus vrspergensis , hieronymus rubeus and others , who cannot be suspected of any enmity to the roman church . as for the making a new emperour , therein the pope had another game to play , he was not willing the souldiery should make another emperour ; for as hadrianus valesius well observes the pope durst not so affront the emperour , if he had not held a private correspondency with charles martel at that time , whose honour and armes were the greatest in these western parts . having thereby strengthened his interest against both the emperour his known enemy and the lombards that were at best but unfaithful friends , he makes what advantage he can of the places that owed subjection to the emperour to make up the patrimony of the church : as valesius observes particularly of sutrium , but sigonius saith , the people not only cast off the emperour , but did swear to be faithful to the pope , ( no wonder then he was not willing to have a new emperour chosen ) so that at this time rome , and the roman dutchy came into the hands of the pope , the cities of which are enumerated by sigonius ; and therefore papirius massonus deservedly makes this pope , the founder of the greatness of the roman church : which we see was laid in down-right rebellion : and can be no otherwise justified than by making the pope absolute governour of the world. not long after the pope begins saith valesius , a warr with the lombards who watched any occasion to take away some part of his newly gotten patrimony , he therefore sends away anastasius and sergius into france to charles martel , with the keyes of st. peters sepulchre , in token of their owning him as their protector . which embassie being acceptable to charles , he procures a peace to be concluded between the lombards and the romans : which was contrary to the popes desire , who sent several letters and messengers to him to come into italy to revenge st. peters quarrel against the lombards with fire and sword ; and as he loved st. peter he would come with all speed into italy ; as appears by the letters still extant and published by sirmondus . but he soon after dying , his son pepin succeeding in all his power , and growing weary of having so much as the name of a king above him , sends to pope zachary to know whether it were not fitter for him to bear the name who did all the business of a king , who very well understood his meaning and readily assented to it , upon which chilperick was deposed and put into a monastery , and pepin was afterwards absolved by the pope from his oath of fidelity , with all the nobles and people . there being now so close a league between the popes interest and pepins , the ones title to his crown depending on the popes authority , the others security upon his protection , no wonder to see them endeavour the promoting each others advantage . the popes territories being not long after molested by aistulphus king of the lombards , stephen writes a very pittiful letter of complaint to pepin , and charles and charlemagne his sons , wherein he saith that aistulphus had almost broke his heart with grief , because he would not leave one foot of land to st. peter and the holy church ; and therefore he conjures them by st. peter who had anointed them kings , that they would recover the lands again out of the lombards hands , or otherwise they may think what a sad account they will give to st. peter in the day of judgement : these are the words of the popes letter lately published by delaland sirmondus his nephew in his supplement of the gallican councils . upon this , pepin comes to his assistance , and every peace addes still more to the churches revenew , by which it was now grown very considerable by the spoiles of the empire , the exarchat of ravenna in pope stephens time being destroyed , which was the only remainder then left of the empire in italy : and the revenews of it were given by pepin to the church of rome : as appears by an ancient inscription in ravenna mentioned by papirius massonus . which the pope solicited hard for , when he went himself into france on purpose to stirr up pepin against the lombards , and was much afraid lest the exarchat should have been restored again to the emperour ; but pepin promising to give the region of pentapolis and ravenna to the roman see ( assoon as he had taken them from the lombards ) the pope went away well satisfied : and drew after him a mighty army , whereby a great part of italy was laid waste , and the people miserably harrassed ; for no other end , but to secure that to the pope which did by all right belong to the emperour . who sent ambassadours first to the pope , and then to pepin to desire the restitution of those places , to their true owner , but the pope denyed , and pepin urged the promise he had already made to the pope , and that he could not go back from it ; because he undertook that quarrel meerly for his souls , and the popes sake , without expecting any advantage to himself by it . aistulphus being dead , desiderius takes upon him the kingdom of lombardy , but he fearing rachis the right heir , makes a league presently with the pope , and by surrendring up some more cities , makes him wholly of his party , and rachis is fain to retire again to a monastery : but after a while , desiderius finds an occasion to quarrel with the pope , and takes several cities into his hands which the pope had gotten possession of , and threatens suddenly to besiege rome , pope adrian finding himself in these straights dispatches away messengers with all speed to charles the son of pepin , that he would imitate his father and grandfather in relieving the church of rome in this distress . charles not willing to omit such an opportunity of inlarging his dominions enters italy with a great army , and in a little time puts a period to the kingdom of lombardy , which had then lasted in italy years ; and was magnificently received at rome by hadrian and the people , by whom he was chosen protector of the roman church and state under the name of patritius ; and he being desired by hadrian to confirm his fathers promises to the church , not only doth that , but addes a considerable accession , the more firmly to oblige the romans , and especially the pope to him . italy being thus reduced , nothing was now wanting to charles but the title of emperour , having already so great a dominion in italy , besides what he had in germany and france . this had been often treated on between the pope and him , but the seditions of rome by the emperours party frequently happening by the presence of some of his officers there , as platina confesseth , and his party being not inconsiderable in other parts , though not daring publickly to appear , and charles by his warrs being elsewhere employed , this was put off till pope leo . by the conspiracy of some of the chief citizens of rome was seized on and imprisoned , from whence making a difficult escape , he goes in haste to charles , who coming into italy and punishing the conspiratours , the pope then , ( some say , by his own authority , of which number bellarmin reckons thirty three authors , others by the consent of the senate and people ) declares charles to be emperour of rome , who solemnly performs the office of his inauguration . thus we have seen the foundation laid of the greatness of the roman church , which being begun in rebellion was carryed on by continual warrs , and so great devastations of the countrey , that platina and blondus both say , that the countrey about rome , suffered more in that time than in all the invasions of the barbarous nations for years before . and was not the church like to enjoy much happiness and peace under a government founded in rebellion and maintained by blood ? for we see the popes were the great instruments of casting off their lawful prince , and taking his territories to themselves and to maintain what they had unjustly gotten , never scrupled beginning quarrels , making warrs , calling in any forrain assistance that might the most serve to promote their designes . § . . it might now be imagined that the popes having been so highly obliged by charlemagne , they should in meer gratitude have done their utmost to preserve the empire in peace under his posterity , but they are great strangers to the court of rome who look for any thing there , but what tends to their own advantage . for in the time of ludovicus pius son of charles the great , his sons combining together against him in france , the pope gregory . going thither under a pretence of reconciling them joynes with the sons in their rebellion against their father . this baronius would have to be a meer calumny , and endeavours to vindicate the pope , because paulus aemilius saith , that the pope abrogated the decree , whereby ludovicus was deprived of the empire : but baronius understood his business too well to make use of the testimony of so late an author , if he could have had any assistance from those who lived near the time . nithardus who lived in the same age , and was nearly related to the imperial family , wrote a book on purpose of the differences among the sons of ludov. pius , and he expresly saith , that they drew the pope into their party ; which is likewise affirmed by the author of the life of the said emperour , who lived at the same time , the pope , he saith , indeed pretended to reconcile them , but the event shewed it to be otherwise ; and the emperour sent to him to know if he came to him , what made him stay so long before he came at him ? and vnderstanding that he came with a design to excommunicate all that would not joyne with the sons against the father , he said , that if he came to excommunicate others , he should go away excommunicated himself , because he acted against the canons . papirius massonus , upon the testimony of nithardus ( whom he calls vitaldus ) makes gregory guilty of the conspiracy of the sons against their father : and the reason he gives of it is , that lotharius having the command of italy might dispossess him of his seat if he opposed him ; and more he saith , are ready to worship the rising than the setting sun. a very worthy excuse for the head of the church to encourage the rebellion of sons against their father , and him too who had all his life shewed as much kindness to the roman see as his ancestors had done ! sigebertus gemblacensis saith , that pope gregory went into france being of the party of the emperours sons against himself . and hincmarus the famous bishop of rhemes , who lived in the time of ludovicus his sons , in his letter to pope hadrian . saith , that gregory came into france with lotharius against the emperours will , and there was no peace in france after , as had been before ; and that he returned with infamy to rome . it would be too large a task to reckon up particularly all the quarrels , which the popes after this did either begin with or foment among christian princes , i shall only at present single out some of the most remarkable of them , not managed by beasts and monsters as their own writers call some of their popes , but persons applauded for their wisdome and courage in maintaining the dignity of their see. § . . among these , gregory . deserves the first place ; i meddle not with other things in this life , which cardinal benno hath writ , ( and is very weakly suspected by bellarmin to have been made by some lutheran ; it being first published by a zealous papist ) but that which i design , is to shew , that under a pretence of advancing his authority he was the great boutefeu of christendome . it is observed by some historians that henry . then emperour sought sixty two pitched battails ( ten more than ever iulius caesar fought ) and he may thank the pope for so many opportunities to shew his courage . for he was no sooner well settled in his chaire , but he finds a pretence of quarrelling with the emperour , and he had such a spirit of contradiction in him , that it was enough for any thing to displease him , to hear it was liked by the emperour and the bishops , as otto frisingensis reports of him . while he was yet but arch-deacon of rome , petrus damiani who was a brother cardinal with him describes him as a person of the greatest pride and insolency imaginable in a letter to pope alexander . and hildebrand his arch-deacon , wherein he calls him , sanctum satanam , a holy devil , and saith , that his venerable pride had plowed his back with such severe stripes that he was able to endure them no longer : and in another letter to himself alone , he saith , that he could not get so much as a good word from him , though he wishes he had served god and st. peter as heartily as he had served him : and that he followed no other canons but his will : and his judgement did not follow his own thoughts but his . this had been very fair towards another man ; but none of his fellow bishops are matches for him , being pope he cares for meddling with nothing under crowns and scepters , and those he takes upon him to dispose as freely as his predecessour did , when he said , all these things will i give thee , only fall down and worship me : for this was the indispensable condition with him . i shall give a brief account of the affairs of the empire in his time , chiefly from sigonius who cannot be suspected for an henrician heretick , ( as some of the german historians are called : only for asserting the just authority of their prince against the popes usurpations ) the first thing pope hildebrand began with was the business of investitures ; and at a council in the lateran he decreed that in case any one received investiture from a lay person , both he that gave and he that received it should be both excommunicated , to which he adjoyned a decree against the marriage of clergy-men , which was no sooner published by his legats in germany , but all the clergy were in an uproar , and charged the pope with contradicting s. paul , and that by this means he made way for all manner of uncleanness , and that they would rather part with their places than submit to it ; and when the arch-bishop of mentz was prevailed with to publish this decree at erford , the bishops were so enraged , that the arch-bishop fearing his life dismissed the assembly : the like opposition was made at milan against erlembaldus , who was there killed with luitprandus the only person who submitted to him : the pope highly incensed , excommunicates all the bishops who sided with the emperour , and forbids the people to communicate with any clergy men who had wives ; but not satisfied with this , he summons the emperour , very magisterially , to appear before him ; and in case of neglect , that he should be excommunicated . henry instead of appearing calls a council of bishops who pronounce him an unlawful pope , to which they all subscribed ; which message was sent to the pope before his council could meet , but hildebrand encouraged himself by the examples of his predecessors , gregory . & . ( who took away the remainder of the empire from leo ) and published a bull wherein he deprived the emperour of his authority , and absolved all his subjects from their allegiance , and forbad any to own him for their prince ; upon which a rebellion in the empire followed , only they allowed him time to make his peace with the pope , within the year , before they would choose a new emperour . the poor emperour finding so general a revolt is fain to go into italy without money or retinue , till the bishops of milan and ravenna and lombardy , who held faithful to him furnished him with both . the pope hearing that , stops his journey into germany and returns to canusium , a strong place belonging to his dear mathildis , who out of great kindness never parted from him ; thither came the german bishops first , and beg their pardon barefoot ; the pope puts them severally into cells and there feeds them with bread and water ; but at last upon promise never to discourse with the emperour before he had given him satisfaction , ( unless it were to perswade him to it ) they are dismissed . the emperour now draws near to canusium , and gets mathildis and two more of greatest interest with the pope to intercede for him ; but all they could prevail with him for , was , that this servant of servants , this follower of st. peter , even the humble minded pope hildebrand , admits him within the second wall of the town , where casting off his royal habit , he was , bare-footed in the midst of winter to wait for the popes answer , in which posture he continued three dayes together , on the fourth the pope very graciously sends him word he might come into his presence . if lucifer himself had sate in the chair , he would not have denyed him so much courtesie as his vicar shewed him ; who after submission to his own terms , and at his feet begging absolution , he absolved him . but the mean carriage of the emperour herein , extremely disobliged the italians his friends , who began to slight and contemn him for it , and to say he was unworthy the empire , and therefore would choose his son in his room : henry finding himself in this condition , returns to his old friends , who declared the terms null which the pope had forced upon him ; the pope finding the emperour resolved to defend his power ; sends away two legats into germany who met the princes at the diet in forcheim , in which by the approbation of the legats . henry is deposed and rodolphus of suevia chosen emperour . baronius charges helmoldus and albertus stadensis with falshood in saying that greg. . transferred the crown to rodolphus and sent it with the known verse upon it ; but whatever becomes of the verse , it seems strange from baronius his own story that any one should question the thing . for was not his excommunicating henry the cause of the first defection from him ? did not he absolve the people from their allegiance ? and after his absolution , when he found henry resolved to maintain his power , did not he send his legats on purpose into germany with instructions to the princes to take care of the empire ? were not his legats present at all the proceedings and approved them ? how could then the pope have no hand in it ? unless it were that he did not put the crown upon his head himself . but saith baronius , gregory 〈◊〉 an epistle of his calls peter and paul to witness that he did not know of their choosing rodolphus : but he doth not deny that they proceeded to a new choice because henry did not keep his terms with him ; he had intimations enough given him who was likest to be the man , and therefore he need not care any more , than to have a new election ; and in the instructions given to his legats , wherein he pretended to umpire the business between them ( after rodolphus had sent his son as hostage for his fidelity to the pope ) he gave them express commands that which soever of them should not obey his will , that they should resist him to the death , and excommunicate all that adhered to him , because forsooth , it was the sin of idolatry to contemn the apostolick see : and concludes his letter with that abominable hypocrisie , that herein he did not seek his own things , but the things of iesus christ. a way of abusing scripture he had taught his friend mathildis , when she used st. pauls words in a letter to the pope to express her love to him , that neither tribulation , nor distress nor persecution , nor famine , nor nakednes● , nor sword , nor death , nor life , nor principalities , &c. should be able to separate her from the love of st. peter in christ iesus our lord ; whom she meant by st. peter is very easie to understand , according to the constant dialect of this pope , whose bulls and anathema's against princes ran in st. peters name . but we leave baronius admiring the providence of god , that when princes and bishops forsook the church of rome , he raised up agnes the emperours mother , against her own son , and beatrix and matilda , of near kindred to the emperour , to support the pope against him ; and not long after we find him acknowledging that rodolphus was confirmed by the p●pe , and henry again excommunicated by him ; in the form of which excommunication extant in baronius , he desires all the world to take notice that it is in the popes power to take away empires , kingdomes , principalities , dutchies , marquisates , earldomes , and the possessions of all men from them , and give them to whom he shall think fit . but doth baronius in the least go about to explain or mitigate this ? no , but instead of it , he complains of the prosperity of the wicked , because henry obtained after this a signal victory over rodolphus in his fourth battel , wherein he was wounded in his right hand , and ( say the german historians ) acknowledged therein the just judgement of god being near his death , that being the hand wherewith he had sworn fidelity to the emperour ; and then told his friends ( whatever the pope did swear by st. peter and st. paul ) that the popes command made him break his oath , and take that honour upon him which did not belong to him ; and he wished they who had put him upon it would consider how they led men to their eternal damnation by such courses ; which having said with great grief of mind , saith helmoldus he dyed . and the pope himself did not escape much better , for the emperour marches into italy with a great army , takes in all the towns which opposed him , deposes hildebrand by the bishops of his party , as the cause of all the warr and bloodshed , and sets up gibert of ravenna under the name of clement . besieges rome , and the pope not trusting the citizens who soon left him , secures himself in a castle , from whence escaping to salerno he not long after there dyes . the only good thing we read of him is that which sigebert and florentius wigorniensis , and matthew paris report of him , from the testimony of the bishop of mentz , that he called , when he was dying , one of his friends to him , and confessed that it was through the instigation of the devil that he had made so great a disturbance in the christian world . whether they who applaud and admire him in the roman church , as particularly baronius , ( who recommended him as a pattern to paul . and rejoyced , to see a man of his spirit to succeed him ) will believe this or no , we matter not , since there is so apparent evidence for the truth of the thing . but we not only see , the whole empire put into a flame under pretence of this authority of the pope , and italy laid wast by it to so great a degree saith sigonius , that mothers devoured their children for meer hunger ; but we may find him as busie though not with equal success with other princes of christendome . he threatens the king of france to deprive him ( if he did not submit to him ) and that his subjects should certainly revolt from him , unless they would renounce their christianity ; which are the words of his bull in baronius : but finding no amendment the next year he sends another , wherein he tells him , that if according to his hard and impenitent heart , he did treasure up the wrath of god and st. peter , by the help of god he would excommunicate him and all that should obey him : the same year he excommunicates in italy robert duke of apulia , prince of the normans , and gilulphus prince of saierno , and sends an army against them . he threatens alphmsus king of spain with the sword of st. peter ; he excommunicates nicephorus emperour of constantinople ; he not only deprived boleslaus king of poland of his kingdom , but puts the whole kingdom under an interdict , and forbids the bishops anointing any for king but whom he should appoint . of all the princes of christendome i find none so much in his favour as our william the first of the norman race , for he coming into a kingdom , where he found no interest but what his sword made him , keeps a fair correspondency with the pope , receives his decrees , refuses to enter into an alliance against him , which so pleased him whom all other princes hated , that he sends to him in his distress to come to his assistance to divert the emperour , and calls him the iewel of princes , and saith that he ought to be the rule of obedience to all other princes ; but yet william himself could not escape his threatnings , when he forbad the bishops of his kingdom to go to rome , and utterly denyed taking any oath of fidelity to the pope which he pressed upon him by his legat ; although baronius make him to submit to the pope upon the receipt of his letter , whereas the letters of lanfranc and the king produced by himself , expresly contradict it . this we are sure of , that william all his time practised that right of investiture of bishop by a staff and a ring , which had been the first cause of the quarrel between the emperour and the pope ; and which he had 〈◊〉 severely forbidden in several councils a rome , thereby to maintain his own authority by taking off the bishops of several kingdoms from any aknowledgement of dependence on their own soveraign princes ; which was the truest cause of all the quarrels of christendome raised and somented by this hell-brand as the centuriatours according to their dialect call him . and although onuphrius in his life confess that this popes designs if they had taken effect would have quite overthrown the majesty of the empire , and that he was the first pope who ever attempted such things , yet he having now started so fair a game , though he dyed in the pursuit of it , his successours retrieved it and followed it with all their might and skill ; thence we read that vrban being made pope by hildebrands faction in opposition to the emperour , renews the sentence of excommunication against him , and in the council at piacenza not content barely to excommunicate him ( in the presence of agnes or adelais the emperours wife ) he uttered saith vrspergensis , very reproachful speeches against him : but he had been no fit successour for hildebrand who could content himself with bare words , especially having declared his resolution to follow the steps of so worthy a predecessour , and so he did to purpose when he set up conradus the emperours son in rebellion against his father . this baronius would fain shift off as not arising from the popes instigation but some private discontents , for which he quotes dodechindus ; but sigonius who follows the same author , saith expresly , that he took upon him the kingdom of lombardy against his father by the authority of urban himself : and bertholdus , whose testimony is afterwards produced by baronius , mentions not only their meeting at cremona , but that conradus there took an oath of fidelity to the pope , and the pope in requital solemnly promised him to give him all the advice and assistance he could for the obtaining the kingdom and empire of his father . what is somenting and encouraging rebellion in the highest degree if this be not ? and the sentence of deposition of conrade in the diet at aken , a. d. . expresly mentions , as the cause of it , his adhering to pope vrban against the emperour his father , and there his son henry declared his successour , and solemnly swears never to rebell against his father . but notwithstanding this oath , conrad being dead , this son is likewise prevailed upon by the popes instruments to rebell against his father : for pascal . succeeding vrban , had again excommunicated henry . and at a council called by him in rome he made all the bishops present by particular subscription to anathematize the emperours heresie ( as they were pleased to call it ) and to promise obedience to paschal and his successours , and to affirm what the church affirmed , and condemn what she condemns . having by this means secured the bishops from adhering to the emperours party , there wanted not agents to solicit his son to take away his crown from him . and the first thing he did upon his rebellion was to anathematize his fathers heresie ( which was keeping the empire in spight of the popes ) and to promise obedience to the pope as the bishops had done at rome : and in the diet at northausen , a. d. . he calls god to witness that it was no desire of the empire which made him take his fathers government from him ; but if he would obey the pope he would presently yield himself to him and become his slave . and when the son had in a perfidious manner seized on the person of his father , and he addressed himself to the popes legat for his safety , he plainly told him , he must look for none unless he would publickly declare the justice of hildebrand and his own unjust persecutions of the roman see. but , which is the most evident testimony of all others in this case , henry . a little before his death a. d. . at liege ( whither he was forced to retire by his sons rebellion ) sends an account of the whole quarrel to philip of france ; wherein he declares , that he had offered all reasonable satisfaction to the pope , only preserving the authority of the empire ; but this not being accepted , in a most unnatural manner , they had armed his most beloved son , his absolom against him , who by their instigation and council had most perfidiously dealt with him : but we need not so much proof of this since baronius confesseth ; that the son had no greater cause of rebelling against his father than that he was excommunicated by the pope ; and afterwards very freely delivers his mind , that in case the son did it sincerely , as he pretended , i. e. out of obedience to the see of rome , it was , saith he , an act of great piety in him to be thus cruel to his father : and that his only offence was , that he did not bind him faster till he was brought to himself , i. e. to the popes beck . o the admirable doctrine of obedience at rome ! what an excellent commentary is this upon the fifth commandment , and the thirteent to the romans ! what mighty care hath the church of rome alwayes taken to preserve peace and unity in the christian church ! the historians who report the passages of this time , tell us , there was never known so dismal an age as that was , for warres and bloodshed , for murthers and parricides , for rapines and sacriledge , for seditions and conspiracies , for horrible schisms and scandals to religion , the priests opposing the bishops , the people the priests , and in some places not only robbing the churches , burning the tithes , but trampling under foot the holy eucharist that was consecrated by such whom pope hildebrand had excommunicated . and must we after all this believe that the roman see is the fountain of vnity in the catholick church , that all warrs and rebellions arise from casting off such subjection to the popes , who have been the great fomenters of rebellion ever since hildebrands time and the disturbers of the peace of christendome ? for we are not to imagine that this quarrel ended with henry . for it was revived again in henry the fifth's time between pope paschal and him , and the pope grants him the priviledges which his father contended for ; but afterwards revoked his own grant ( perjury being no sin at rome in so holy a cause ) and raised a rebellion in the empire against him , and notwithstanding several agreements made between him and the successive popes , could enjoy no lasting peace in his time upon their account , and dyed at last without issue , going to suppress a new rebellion . after his death , conradus being to succeed as sisters son to henry . lotharius by the arts of the court of rome , was set up in opposition to him : he was fain to part with the rights of the empire to satisfie the pope , who made him receive the imperial crown at his feet . in the time of conradus who succeeded lotharius , the pope encouraged guelfo the duke of bavaria in a rebellion against him ( from whom the two loving factions of guelphs and gibellines had their beginning ) it would be endless to relate the disturbances of the christian world which arose from the contentions of several popes , about their authority with frederick barbarossa , philippus suevus , otho . frederick . ludovicus bavarus and other emperours till such time as the majesty of the empire was lost in carolus . or if we should give an account of all the warrs , and rebellions , and seditions , and quarrels which happened meerly upon pretence of the papal authority in our own nation , or in france , or elsewhere . but these may , at present , suffice to give testimony , what an excellent instrument of peace to the christian world , the authority challenged by the bishop of rome hath been : and that authority still vindicated and asserted in the court of rome . § . . . but although such civil disturbances have happened by the contentions about the papal authority , yet they may say , the church hath had its unity still as long as they were united in the same head : for this they look on as the great foundation of vnity ; for say they , the unity of the body consists in the conjunction of the members with the head , and then with one another : and although there may be many other sorts of vnity in the church , yet the essential vnity of the church , they tell us , lyes in conjunction of the members under one head. but what becomes then of the unity of the roman church , in the great number of schisms , and some of long continuance among them ? were they all members united under one head , when there were sometimes two , sometimes three several heads ? bella●mine in his chronologie , confesseth twenty six several schisms in the church of rome , but onuphrius a more diligent search●r into these things reckors up thirty , whereof some lasted ten years , some twenty , one fifty years . and it seems very strange to any one , that hears so many boasts of unity in the church of rome above others , to find more schisms in that church than in any patriarchal church in the world. we should think , if the bishop of rome had been designed head of the church and the fountain of vnity , that it was as necessary that church should be freed from intestine divisions on that account , as to be secured from errours in faith if it had the promise of infallibility ; for errours are not more contrary to infallibility , than divisions are to vnity : and the same spirit can as easily prevent schisms as heresies . but as the errours of that church are the clearest evidence against the pretence of infal●ibility , so are the schisms of it against its being the fountain of vnity ; for how can that give it to the whole church which so notoriously wanted it in it self ? i shall not need to insist on the more ancient schisms between cornelius and novatianus and their parties ; between liberius and felix , between damasus and vrsicinus , between bonifacius and eulalius , between symachus and laurentius , between bonifacius and dioscorus , between sylverius and vigi●ius , and many others . i shall only mention those which were of the longest continuance in that church , and do most apparently discover the divisions of it . i begin with that which first brake forth in the time of formosus who was set up a. d. . against sergius , whom the faction of the marquesse of tuscany would have made pope ; but the popular faction then prevailing , sergius was forced to withdraw , and formosus with continual opposition from the other party enjoyed the papacy four years and six months , not without the blood of many of the chief citizens of rome slain by arnulphus in the quarrel of formosus . after his death boniface . intruded , saith baronius , into the papal see , but was , after fifteen dayes dispossessed by stephanus . who in a council called for that purpose , nulled all the acts of formosus , deprived all those of their orders who had been ordained by him , and made them be re-ordained ; and not content with this , he caused his body to be taken out of the grave , and placed it in the popes chair with the pontifical habits on ; where after he had sufficiently reviled him , that could not revile again , he caused the three fingers to be cut off , with which he used to give benediction and orders , and the body to be thrown into tiber. this last part onuphrius would have to be a fable , and andreas victorellus from him ; but baronius saith , they are mistaken who say so ; for not only luitprandus , who lived in that age , expresly affirms it , ( although , he attributes it to sergius upon whose account , the schism begun : ) but the acts of the roman council under iohn . extant in baronius make it evident : and papirius massonus cites other ancient historians for it . upon this nulling the ordinations of formosus , a great dispute was raised in the church , for many of the bishops would not submit to re-ordination , and particularly leo bishop of nola , to whom auxilius writ his book in defence of the ordinations of formosus , a short account whereof is published by baronius from papy●ius masso ; but the whole book is now set forth from ancient manuscript by morinus ; by which we understand the controversie of that time , much better , than we could before . two things were chiefly objected against formosus his ordinations . . that against the canons of the church he was translated from one see to another ; being bishop of porto before he was made bishop of rome . . that having been degraded by iohn . ( although restored by his successour marinus , and absolved from his oath ) he was not capable of conferring orders . against the first of these auxilius shews that translation from one see to another cannot null ordination , from the testimony of pope anterus , the example of greg. nazianzen , perigenes , dositheus , reverentius , palladius , alexander , meletius , and many others . that the nicene canon against translations , was interpreted by the council of chalcedon so as not to extend to all cases , and it was so understood by pope leo and gelasius ; and however that only nulls the translation and not the ordination . against the second he pleads , that supposing it not to be lawful to remove from one episcopal see to another , yet the ordination may be valid ; for formosus was not consecrated again himself but only reconciled by marinus , that the popes gregory and leo had declared against re-ordination as much as against re-baptizing , that the canons of the apostles had forbidden it , that the ordinations by acacius were allowed by anastasius , that the bonosiaci though hereticks had their orders allowed them , that the cathari were admitted to the churches communion by the council of nice only with imposition of hands , that though liberius fell to the arian heresie , yet his ordinations afterwards were not nulled ; neither those of vigilius although he stood excommunicated by silverius , and added homicide to it : that the nulling these ordinations was to say in effect , that for twenty years together they had been without the christian religion in italy : that none but hereticks could assert these things ; that if any popes themselves speak or act against the catholick faith or religion , they are not to be followed in so doing . this is the substance of the first book of auxilius , which things are more largely insisted upon in the second . but by that book it appears most evidently that the barbarous usage of the body of formosus was most true , it being expresly mentioned therein and justified by him in the dialogue that pleads for re-ordination . and now saith baronius , began those most unhoppy times of the roman church which exceeded the persecutions of heathens or hereticks : but he out of his constant good will to civil authority lays the fault altogether upon the power of the marquesses of tuscany , who had then too great power in rome ; but he strangely admires the providence of god in keeping the heads of the church from heresie all that time . alas for them ! they did not trouble themselves about any matters of faith at all , but were wholly given over to all manner of wickedness as himself confesseth of them ; when theodora that mother of the church of rome ruled in chief , and her daughter marocia's son by pope sergius came to be pope himself ; when as platina saith it grew to be the custome of popes to null all that their predecessours had done . were not these goodly heads of the church the mean time ? and did not they keep the church in great vnity under their agreeable conduct ? methinks the providence of god , is as much concerned to preserve holiness and peace as faith in the world ; and were not these excellent instruments for doing it ! baronius grants the acts of stephanus to be such as the most barbarous nations could not endure to hear of , and are too bad to be believed : and all the following age he calls iron for its rust and barrenness , and leaden for its badness and dulness ; and confesseth that monsters of impurity then raigned in the apostolical see , that infinite evils sprung from thence , and horrible tragoedies , and mischiefs not to be spoken of . and yet a very catholick faith , and the vnity of the spirit in the bond of peace must be supposed to be there infallibly all this while ; but if all their faith and unity be of such a kind as was in the century in the roman church , i should think baronius might have said more in admiration of the providence of god in preserving the catholick faith and vnity among the devils in hell ! for the scripture tells us they believe and tremble , and our saviour saith , that the devils kingdom cannot stand if it be divided against it self ; and these are clearer and stronger testimonies than can be brought of the faith and vnity of the roman church , when such horrid wickedness is acknowledged to have had dominion in it , and that church was therein unlike the devils kingdom that it was divided against it self : in the very beginning of this century pope stephen is cast into prison , and there strangled , as baronius proves from his epitaph ; and now the roman faction prevailing , they make one romanus pope , the first and only thing he did , was to condemn all that stephen had done , as platina , onuphrius , and ciacconius all agree ; but he continued not much above four months ; after him theodorus who held out about twenty dayes and followed the steps of romanus ; to him succeeded iohn . ( as platina calls him ) of the same faction , who set all formosus his acts to rights again , condemning all that stephen had done in a council at ravenna ; whither he was driven by the prevalency of the faction at rome against him ; where in the presence of seventy four bishops , the acts of the council under stephen were burnt , in which the ordinations of formosus were nulled ; and sergius , benedictus , and marinus were anathematized for being instruments in the acts against formosus . the next pope benedict escapes without any thing , but a dull epitaph ; but leo his successour had not been above forty days in the place , but he is cast into prison , by one of his servants , who is made pope in his place , and seven months after he is served the same way by sergius who now at last recovered the popedome , and the greatest thing he did was to condemn formosus again , and all who had appeared for him : so that now as sigebert saith , nothing was talked of so much as ordinations and exordinations , and superordinations ; by the contrary acts of these popes to one another . baronius confesseth this sergius to have been a man of a most infamous and dissolute life : after his death theodora was not at rest till she had gotten her gallant to be pope under the name of iohn . and what manner of cardinals , saith baronius , may we imagine such a pope would make ? but marozia her daughter was not so well pleased with him , for by her order , his brother was killed in his presence , and he put into prison and there smothered . after him , saith luitprandus , her own son by pope sergius is made pope ; who was cast into prison by his brother albericus ; who being not pleased with stephen who followed him , he was set upon and so wounded and deformed thereby , that he durst not let his face be seen ; and the seditions , saith platina , continued so high in his time , that he could do no great thing . at last , alberic's son called octavianus got possession of the see under the name of iohn . ( or . as o●hers besides platina call him ) who was such a monster for all wickedness , that otho the emperour was called into italy to displace him , who called a council , wherein he was accused for ordaining a deacon in a stable , and making a bishop of ten years of age ; but these were small faults to his adulteries , sacriledge , cruelties , drinking healths to the devil ; and at dice calling upon the devils for help . when these accusations were sent to him from the council , he only threatned to excommunicate them all , if they chose another pope against him : but they not regarding his threatning depose him , and choose leo . in his place . here baronius storms unreasonably , that a council should take upon it to depose a pope , though so abominably bad , as he confesseth this man to have been ; and makes them guilty of an intolerable errour and heresie in so doing , because it implyes their believing that the power of the keys did depend on the worth of the person : and therefore he detests leo as a schismatical pope . and to make sure of a schisme after the infamous death of iohn . being killed in the act of adultery , the opposite faction in rome chose benedict . to succeed him , who was carried away prisoner by otho into germany ; but before his death iohn . called a council , wherein he nulled all the acts of the other council , and pronounced them schismaticks , and decreed that all that were ordained by them must be re-ordained . is not here now a most admirable vnity in the roman church ? after leo another iohn is chosen by the emperours party , but , as platina saith it being now grown customary to depose popes , they drive him away by seditions against him , being first imprisoned by rotfredus and then expelled the city . but they suffered sufficiently for it , by the severity of otho against them . — the next pope , benedict . was cast into prison by the other faction , and there strangled or famished . iohn . came to his end after the same manner , dying in prison , by the faction of ferrucius the father of boniface . who was driven away from rome after his being made pope ; after whom benedict . was set up , and iohn succeeding him , boniface's faction recovering again , he was for a few months restored to the popedome . against greg. . the faction of crescentius set up one ioh. . who by the power of the emperour was deprived of his eyes and the popedome together , and a little after of his life . but these factions in rome did not end with this century , for in the next , a. d. we find a new schism breaking out on the account of them . we are contented to take the story as baronius relates it in that year . benedict . was made pope by the faction of the counts of tusculum ( frascati ) out of opposition to which and dislike of benedict , the people of rome deposed him and set up sylvester . who got the popedome by simony , and enjoyed it but three months , when ( the tusculan faction again prevailing ) sylvester was deposed and benedict restored , but finding himself hateful to the people he resigns to iohn ( called greg. . ) or as platina saith , some affirm ; sold it to him . otto frisingensis , saith , these three sat together in the city of rome , and all of them led very bad lives , as he heard himself at rome . but baronius will not have greg. . to be the same with iohn one of the schismatical popes , but gratian who by fair offers ( not to be called symony ) perswading the other three to part with their places got the possession of the popedome alone . alphons . ciacconus follows onuphrius in saying that his name was ioh. gratianus , but not one of the three anti-popes sitting together ; wherein neither baronius nor he can sufficiently clear themselves . if he were distinct there must be five popes at the same time ; for this greg. . was deprived with the rest by a council called by the emperour , henry . at sutrium . for baronius is very much mistaken in saying that the other three popes were all deprived two years before , for his own author hermannus asserts that the cause of the false popes was there diligently discussed , and greg. . deprived for simony as ciacconus expresly saith after other authors , ( however baronius strives to vindicate him out of kindness to his name sake and disciple greg. . ) and clement . is there made pope , who enjoyed it but a little time , being poisoned saith platina by damasus . who succeeded him ; but after the death of both these benedict . got into possession of the papacy again , and the fifth time after the death of leo . in whose time a great controversie arose again about re-ordination , viz. of such who had been ordained by simoniacal persons , and although leo had determined in council , that upon forty dayes pennance , they might perform the duties of their function , yet it appears by an epistle of petrus damiani , extant in baronius , that this controversie remained still , and they thought all actions done by such persons , no other than if they had been done by lay-men ; but we find nothing done in it to suppress this heresie as he calls it , although he earnestly desires the pope to condemn it . we are now falle● into the times of hildebrand , who caused benedict . to be deprived of the papacy , before he came to it himself ; for he called together the discontented cardinals at siena , where they discarded benedict and chose nicolaus . the schisme that happened in his own time , i have already spoken to , which i shall therefore pass by , as likewise the others that followed upon the opposition between the popes and emperours , although it is not to be imagined that there could be greater divisions among men than were upon the account of those two factions , especially after they came to be distinguished by the names of guelphs and gibellines , it being ordinary for them to murder each other whereever they met , for a mighty demonstration of the peace and unity of the roman church . i shall only now enquire , whether all these schisms and factions happened among them only on the account of the differences between the popes and emperours ; and we shall find , that the agreement among themselves was only from that external opposition , and when that ceased , new factions and schisms brake forth among them . of which italy was so full , that the elections of popes became the work of years , by reason of the heats which were among them ; but i meddle not with these factions in elections , although they are no great indications of the presence of the holy ghost among them . but i shall only touch at the greatest schism for continuance ever they had among them , ( as their historians reckon it ) which lasted with great animosities for fifty years together , in which all the princes of christendome were concerned , and one party condemning the other with the greatest bitterness , and condemning all the acts done by the other ; and pronouncing them null and void . this was begun upon the election of vrban . at which the cardinals , declaring a force by the souldiers and people of rome , when they were withdrawn from thence to a place of safety ; chose another pope , viz. clem. . who sate in france , as vrban and his successours did in rome , he made twenty seven cardinals , and petrus de luna or benedict . succeeded him ; and notwithstanding all the endeavours could be used to suppress this schism it still continued , and the means for that end did rather increase it , as the council of pisa , which instead of two popes made three , setting up alexander . besides greg. . and benedict . . and after him iohn . was chosen at bononia : and although afterwards the council of constance deprived iohn . and benedict . and chose martin . yet benedict never yielded ; and after his death , the cardinals that were with him chose clem. . against martin . who were so far from yielding him to be true pope , that they rather chose to rot in prison , as they did ; and so saith ciacconius this schism was ended after fifty two years , which had given so great disturbance to the whole christian world. one might have imagined now , when councils were called for that purpose , that an end should thereby be put to these schisms among them , but it was so far otherwise , that we find another schisme begun in that church not long after by the authority of the council of basil which chose felix . in opposition to eugenius . where there was not only pope against pope , but council against council too , eugenius sitting at that time with the council of florence . in the time of iulius . we find council against council again , that at pisa , and the lateran at r●me , both called general councils , and condemning each other . by which we see how far the church of rome is from being free from dangerous schisms in it self ; and therefore hath no cause to object them to others . the only thing pleaded in answer to this charge of their numerous schisms , is , that these were most of them controversies concerning elections of popes , ( which is all the salvo molanus hath for it at the end of onuphrius his chronologie ) but what is that to the purpose ? since the question was , which of them was the head of the church with whom the members were to be united ? and all those who were not united with him whom they account the true head , must be as much in schism , as they who renounce all subjection to the pope . for are not those as much in rebellion who set up an vsurper against their lawful prince ; as they who deny him to be their prince , and to have any authority over them , because they look on themselves as a free state ? there can be but one lawful head of the church by their own principles , and only they are truly united to the church , who are in conjunction with the lawful head , and therefore it follows , upon their own principles , that they must be in a state of schisme , who are united with any other than the true head. what then signifie the boasts of vnity in the roman church , if they cannot prevent the falling of their members into such dangerous schisms ? to what purpose is it to tell us of one head of the church to whom all must submit , if there have been several pretenders to that headship , and the church hath been a long time divided , which of them was the true ? unless all their vnity comes to this at last , that they have an excellent vnity among them if they could all agree : and such an vnity may be had any where . but if all were agreed , what need any means of agreement by one universal head ? or what can that universal head signifie to making vnity , when his title to his headship becomes a cause of greater divisions ? may not we say upon better grounds , that taking away the popes authority would tend much more to the peace of the church , since that hath been the cause of so great disturbances in the world and is to this day of one of the greatest differences between the several parts of the catholick church ? for as things now stand in the christian world , the bishop of rome is so far from being the fountain of vnity , that he is much rather the head of contention and the great cause of the divisions of the christian church . § . . . the differences have been as great in the roman church as out of it , both as to matters of order and doctrine . ( . for matters of order and government ; have not the controversies between the regulars and seculars among them even here in england been managed with as much heat and warmth , as to matter of episcopal jurisdiction , as between those of the church of england and the dissenters from it ? neither is this any lately started controversie among them , but hath continued ever since the prevalency of the mendicant fryers and their pretences of exemptions from episcopal jurisdiction , and encroaching upon the office of the parochial clergy . for no sooner did the fryers begin publickly under pretence of priviledges to take upon them to preach , without licence from the bishops , where they pleased , and to take other offices of the parochial clergy out of their hands , but great opposition was made against them , by all the learned men who were friends to the episcopal power , and the peace of the church . which being a matter of concernment for us to understand , i shall give a faithful account of it , from the best writers of their own church . assoon as the monastick orders were found to be very serviceable to the interests of the court of rome , it was thought convenient to keep them in an immediate dependence upon the pope in whatever countrey they were . from hence came the great favour of popes to them , and their willingness to grant them almost what priviledges they desired , because receiving them only from the plenitude of the popes power , they were obliged to maintain and defend that from whence they derived them . at first , when they led a more properly monastick life , the priviledges granted them seem to be nothing else but exempting them from some troubles which were inconsistent with it , either relating to their persons or the estates they enjoyed . after this , they began to complain of the numbers of people flocking to their churches as inconsistent with their private and retired life ; from hence we first read that publick masses by the bishop were forbid in monasteries , to prevent a concourse of people and especially of women to them . but a long time after this they lived in subjection to the bishops , and meddled no more in ecclesiastical than in secular matters . so charles m. in his capitular , commands them to keep within their monasteries , to be subject to their bishops , and to meddle in no ecclesiastical matters without the express command of the bishop . but as the popes increased their authority , the monks inlarged their priviledges , and procured exemptions from episcopal jurisdiction ; which yet was not pleasing to those who valued the churches peace above the priviledges of the monastick orders . these exemptions are therefore highly condemned by st. bernard , though a monk himself , as tending to the dissolution of the ecclesiastical government , and by ivo carnotensis , who saith , he grew weary of his episcopal government by reason of them . petrus blesensis , hath an epistle written to pope alexander . in the name of richard archbishop of canterbury , against the abbot of malmsbury , who refused subjection to the bishop of salisbury , and being cited by the archbishop to appear before him for his contempt ; he declared he would be subject to none but the pope , and said , they were pittiful abbots who did not wholly exempt themselves from the bishops power ; when they might for an annual pension to the pope obtain an absolute exemption . therefore the archbishop saith , it was time for them to complain , because this contagion did spread it self far , and the abbots set themselves against their bishops and metropolitans : and the popes by indulging these things , did command disobedience and rebellion , and arm the children against their fathers ; but these and many other complaints signified nothing in the court of rome as long as their profit and interest were advanced by it . and although we read of many affronts which the monks put upon the bishops , before the time of the mendicant fryers , yet their insolency grew the highest when they took upon them to preach in parochial churches and hear confessions without the bishops leave . thence the vniversity of paris , published the book , de periculis novissimorum temporum , which although written by s. amour , went abroad in the name of all the divines there , as appears by the beginning of it : wherein a character is given of those persons , who should make the last times so troublesome , they should be lovers of themselves , not enduring reproof , covetous both of riches and applause , high-minded , because they would not be in subjection to the bishops , but be set before them : and therefore disobedient to their spiritual fathers . and such as these are said to creep into houses , which the ordinary gloss expounds of those who enter into the houses of those who are under anothers charge : these enter not by the door as the rectors of churches do , but steal into them like thieves and robbers , and leading captive silly women , is their setting them against the bishops , and perswading them to a monastick life . these are likewise false teachers , who though never so learned and holy , teach without being sent ; and none are duly sent , but such as are chosen and authorised by the church ; such as bishops and presbyters are , the one succeeding the apostles , the other the disciples , and afterwards they deny that the pope himself can give any power to others to meddle in the charge of a parish or in preaching among them , but where they are invited to it ; because bishops themselves cannot otherwise act out of their own dioceses ; and that the pope in this case doth injury by violating the rights of others : and if he should go about to destroy what the prophets and apostles have taught , he would erre in so doing . besides , say they , if these praedicant fryers have a liberty to preach where they please , they are all universal bishops ; and because maintenance is due to all who preach , the people will be bound to pay procurations to them , which will be an unreasonable burden upon them . many other arguments they use against this new sort of itinerant preachers , and represent the dangers that came to the church by them at large : wherein they describe them as a kind of hypocritical sectaries , that abused the people under a fair shew and pretence of religion , having , as they say , a form of godliness , but denying the power of it : and that the persecution of the church by them would be equal , to what it was , by tyrants and open hereticks ; because they are familiar enemies , and do mischief under a shew of kindness . and that one of the great dangers of the church by them would be , their possessing princes and people with prejudices against the government of the church by the bishops , which , having done , they can more easily lead them into errours both against faith and a good life . that their way of dealing is first with the women , and by them seducing the men , as the devil first tempted eve and by her adam ; and when they have once seduced them , they tye them by oathes and vows , not to hearken to the counsel of their bishops , or those who have the care of their souls ▪ that the bishops ought to suppress these , and call in the publick help to do it , and to purge their dioceses of them : and that if they do it not , the blood of the people will be required of them , and destruction will come upon them for it : and though princes and people had taken their part , that ought not to discourage them : but their folly ought to be made manifest to all men . after this , they lay down the means to be used for suppressing them , and the signes for their discovery ; saying , that they are idle persons , busie bodies , wandring beggars , against the apostles express command , who would have all such excluded the church as disorderly livers : and therefore conclude with an earnest exhortation to all who have a care of the church to rise up against them ; as the pernicious enemies of its peace and welfare . all these things which are only summarily comprehended in that book , are very largely insisted upon by gul. de sancto amore in another book entituled , collections of holy scripture , which is wholly upon this subject . the mendicant fryers being thus assaulted , endeavoured to defend themselves as well as they could , and made choice of the best wits among them for their champions , such as bonaventure , and aquinas then were , who undertook their cause ; and were fain to shelter themselves under the plenitude of the popes power ; by which means they were sure to have the pope on their side ; but his authority was here no means of vnity , for the controversie continued long after , and was managed with great heat on both sides . § . . upon the great complaint of the priviledges and exemptions which the monastick orders had obtained from the popes , clement . promised to have this business discussed in the council of vienna ; and to that end gave order to several learned men to write about it , among whom particularly durandus mimatensis writ a large discourse ( not mentioned by possevin ) but printed a. d. . wherein he perswades the pope to revoke all such exemptions , because they were contrary to the ancient canons of the church , whereby from the apostles times , all places and persons whatsoever were immediately under the jurisdiction of the bishops ; and that the pope neither ought , nor could change this order of the church . because the order of bishops being appointed to prevent schisms in the church , it could not attain its end , if any persons were exempted from their jurisdiction . and if it were in the popes power to grant such exemptions , it were by no means expedient to do it ; because the order of the church would be destroyed by it , the bishops contemned , and the church divided ; and if the monastick orders paid no obedience to the bishops , the people would soon learn by their example to disobey them too . and supposing it had been expedient before , it could not be so then , because though the monastick orders were founded in a state of poverty , yet now those who were in them were arrived at such a height of intolerable pride and arrogance , that not only their abbots and priors , but the fryers thought themselves equal to bishops , and fit to be preferred before other ecclesiastical persons . thus far durandus : and aegidius romanus at the same time writ a book against the exemptions of fryers ; against both of them iacobus the abbot of the cistercians writt a defence of exemptions , which was published in vienna in the time of the council . this matter was hotly debated in that council , but the pope would not yield to the revocation of them : but renews a bull of boniface . for qualifying and composing the differences that had happened to the great scandal of the church about them : wherein he takes notice of several bulls before , which had taken no effect ( so excellent an instrument of peace is the popes authority ) and that of a long time a most grievous and dangerous discord had been between the bishops and parochial clergy on one part , and the preaching fryers on the other . therefore the pope very wisely considering , how full of danger , how prejudicial to the church , how displeasing to god so great a discord was ; and resolving wholly to remove it for the future , by his apostolical authority doth appoint and command , that the fryers should have liberty to preach in all churches , places , and publick streets at any other hour but that wherein the bishops did preach , or did command others to preach , without a particular license to preach then : a greater instance of the discords which have been in the roman church , nor of the insufficiency of the popes authority for the cure of them can hardly be produced than this is . the popes were forced to say and unsay , and retract their own grants , to mitigate and qualifie them and all to no purpose , for the differences continued as great notwithstanding them . the first pope who interposed in this quarrel was gregory . who upon complaint made by the fryers of the bishops exercising their jurisdiction over them in several things mentioned as grievances by them , he publishes two bulls or decretal epistles to forbid the bishops doing it for the future : upon this the fryers openly contemn the bishops , and preach where they please , and hear confessions , and bury the dead in spight of them ; and the parochial clergy . innocent . finding how necessary their help was to him in the controversies between him and the emperour , confirms the same priviledges to them : by which they grew so insolent , that they called the parish priests , as matthew paris relates , ideots , dunces , drunkards , blind guids ; and would make the people believe that all knowledge and sanctity was only among them : insomuch that in petrus de vineis who lived in that age and was chancellour to the emperour , we read a miserable complaint of the parochial clergy against the fryers , viz. that by these means they were brought under the greatest contempt to the general scandal of religion ; they expressing the most bitter hatred against them imaginable , reproaching their lives , and lessening their dues so as they were brought to nothing by it ; and they were made a laughing stock to all people ; that they took away the main of their imployment from them , and drew away the people from the churches to the convents , teling them the word of god was to be heard only among them . that they had nothing now left to do but to pull down their churches ; in which they had scarce any thing left besides a bell and an old resty image , but these holy fryers , while they had nothing , possessed all things , and professing poverty were extreamly rich . but innocent . a little before his death being wearied by the complaints of the bishops and clergy , revoked the priviledges which he had so largely granted to the fryers , and confined them within certain limits , forbidding them to draw away the people from their parish churches upon sundayes and holy-dayes , or admitting any to pennance who had not first confessed to their parish-priest : but the fryers were as far from being pacified by this , as the clergy were by the former ; for therein the pope upbraids them with violating the rights of others , with blaspheaming religion by such actions , displeasing god , and drawing the souls of the faithful to perdition : but he dying assoon as they had notice of this bull , they said , it was a just judgement of god upon him for revoking their priviledges . and alexander . was no sooner settled in his chair but they procured another bull from him to call in that of innocent . and immediately to suspend all execution of it ; but this did not satisfie them , for they boasted they had killed pope innocent by their prayers , and that the v. mary , every time they invocated her name ; turned to her son and said , son hear them : upon which innocent was presently struck with a palsie and dyed ; from whence arose a saying in the court of rome , from the fryers letanies good lord deliver us . this is related as true by bzovius , ad a. d. . but is looked on as a fable of the fryers , by d'attichy , raynaldus , du boulay and others of any judgement among them . but this bull of alexander , nor all the rest he made for their sakes could make the bishops and the clergy give up their rights ; for in the time of martin . the fryers procured another bull for hearing confessions without license from the bishops , upon which the contention increased between the bishops and the fryers ; insomuch , that not waiting the popes revocation of his grant which he was inclined to by the perswasions of the bishop of amiens , they called a synod of the gallican church at paris , a. d. . wherein the archbishop of bourges being president , declared to them , that being pastors of the flock , they ought to lay down their lives for their sheep , and not to suffer the encroachments were made upon them by the fryers ; by whom all things were brought to confusion in the church : that they had used all fair wayes of prevailing with them by the intreaties of the king and nobles , to forbear such intrusions into their offices as they were continually guilty of ; but all to no purpose , they still defending themselves by papal priviledges ; whereas there had been contrary bulls to another granted at rome . and it was then agreed among them , that they should maintain their own office against the fryers incroachments , by which the contention increased to so great a height , that many invectives , apologies , and libels were published one against another , to the great disgrace ( saith meyerus ) of the whole ecclesiastical order . upon which pope martin endeavoured an accommodation by another bull wherein he required , that all parishioners should confess to their own parish priest at least once a year . but this was as far from making peace as any before ; therefore from boniface . the fryers procured a new bull of priviledges , which absolutely nulls all the former bulls of restriction and limitation , and by the fulness of his apostolical power doth exempt them from all manner of power or jurisdiction of the bishops , or any other ecclesiastical persons , and decrees that they were immediately subject to the pope and to none else . and yet this pope himself not many years after , retracted this bull , and set forth that , which clement . renewed in order to the composing this difference , which had now to the great demonstration of their vnity and the popes authority continued with great violence above fifty years : and was far from being ended by this bull ; for benedict . in another published on the same occasion , saith , that instead of peace troubles arose by it , instead of unity and concord , greater divisions and disturbances : and by cutting off one head of the hydra , seven more came into its room . are not the popes great peace-makers the mean while ! therefore he resolves to try what the other way would do , and again inlarges the priviledges of the fryers , which being sound as unsuccessful as ever ; clement . resumes the constitution of boniface which this pope condemned , and to as little purpose as the other had done before . and now let us soberly consider whether there hath not alwayes been an admirable vnity in the roman church , or if divisions have arose , a ready means to suppress them ? here we have the popes interposing , by bull after bull , and so far from ending the differences that occasioned them , that they begot more , which made the popes contradict one another , nay the same pope to contradict himself , and so the differences became greater than they were at first . and after all these bulls we find the very same controversie at as great a height in england and ireland as ever it had been in france or germany ; wadding saith , it went so high that the bishops and clergy here would not suffer the fryers to enjoy any of the priviledges granted them by the popes : which caused an appeal to the pope made by the fryers , to whom in behalf of the clergy was sent richard fitz-ralph the learned bishop of armagh , best known by the name of armachanus , who there with great smartness opposed the fryers to the popes face in a long and set discourse still extant ; wherein he gives an account that coming to london about some business of his see , he found great disputes about the priviledges of the fryers ; and being desired to preach , he made seven or eight sermons wherein he declared his mind against them , both as to their order and priviledges ; in which he followed the doctrine of the divines at paris , above an hundred years before delivered by them upon the like occasion , asserting it not to be in the popes power to grant such priviledges which destroy the rights of the parochial clergy , or the jurisdiction of the bishops . the fryers charge him with heresie , as they are wont to do those who are wiser than themselves , saith boulay : armachanus dyed at avignon , but so did not the controversie with him ; although the fryers seem to have had the better there , they being the popes ianisaries and ready in all places to serve his turn : yet walsingham saith , it was not without corrupting the popes court by great bribes given by the fryers , that they obtained the confirmation of their priviledges ; yet seven years after , harpsfield saith , this controversie was referred to the parliament to be determined . very strange ! that a parliament in england should be thought a more likely means for vnity in the church than the authority of so many popes , who had interposed in it for putting an issue to this difference . after armachanus , wickliffe undertook this quarrel against the fryers , and made use of the same arguments against them , which those who defended the clergy had done before . for in his book against the orders of fryers , he particularly insists upon this , that they for pride and covetise had drawen fro curats there office and sacraments , in which lyen winning or worship , and so maken dissention betwixt curats and there ghostlié childer . which are his own words . but wickliffe and his disciples carrying the controversies much farther to points of doctrine and other practices in the roman church , made the other parties more quiet out of opposition to these whom they looked on as their common enemies . it may be therefore they will say , that although the popes pastoral power may not alwayes cure their divisions , yet the opposition of hereticks makes them run together like a flock of sheep ; if this were true , it seems they are more beholding to hereticks for their vnity , than to the popes authority : but we shall find that neither one nor the other of these , nor both together , can keep them from divisions , and those managed with as great animosity as we have ever found in the most differing sects . § . . witness the proceedings between the iesuits and the secular priests begun in wisbich castle in the latter end of q. elizabeths reign ; when it came to a separation from each other , about the authority of the arch-priest . and they mutually charged each other with being guilty of a horrible schism , maintained saith watson , by the iesuits and arch priest , with infinite violence , much infamy for the time , and innumerable particular wrongs thereupon not unknown to the meanest catholick in england . the secular priests finding themselves unjustly accused , as they said , to the pope , published a book in latin which they dedicated to his holiness , called declaratio motuum & turbarum , which saith parsons in his answer called , a manifestation of the great folly and bad spirit of certain in england calling themselves secular priests , is made up only of invectives , and passionate words , injurious , and manifest false slanders ; they in their reply charge parsons with follie and madness , and the highest degree of impudencie . if any one hath a mind to furnish himself with all the terms and phrases of scolding reproach and infamy , he may find them in the books they then writ against each other ; or if he thinks that too great a trouble , he may meet with a goodly parcel of them put together out of fa. parsons his own writings by watson at the end of the reply to parsons's libell . the short account of the breach among them was this ; all the loud talk they made abroad concerning their cruel persecution , could not hinder ambition , and envy from having its effects among them ; from these first arose misunderstandings , and then quarrels between the secular priests and the iesuits : from thence the priests proceed to the framing a sodality , ( as they called it ) among themselves , the better to strengthen themselves against the iesuits ; which they understanding prevail with one of the number of the associated priests to betray their councils , him they send to rome , who in the name of all the priests in england desired for the preventing differences for the future , and the curing those that were already , that there might be a government and subordination settled among them . fa. parsons being then at rome follows the matter close , and represents to the pope the necessity of it , because of the great discords which were among them in england . whereupon the pope according to fa. parsons desire , referrs the whole business to cardinal cajetan their protector . who being governed by the iesuits pitched upon a person wholly at their devotion ( as the seculars thought ) which was blackwell a man swayed altogether by garnet provincial of the iesuits ; ( well known for his zeal in the catholick cause by suffering as one of their martyrs in the gunpowder treason ) and one of the arch-priests instructions was , in all matters of moment to be advised by the provincial of the iesuits . the secular priests finding themselves thus over-reached by the cunning of the iesuits , and that they designed hereby wholly to govern their affairs , make many demurrs to his authority , both concerning the manner and the substance of it : and desire a breve from the pope , and then promise to submit . parsons procures one to their purpose , and an appearance of peace was for a little time among them , and they mutually promised not to charge the schism upon each other ; but within a month or six weeks , the flame brake out with greater fury than ever ; the arch-priest sending his directions into all parts , that none of the seculars should be admitted to the sacraments without acknowledging themselves schismaticks . so that the popes breve was so far from ending the difference , that it encreased it ; fa. parsons charging them , ( and the seculars not denying it ) that after it they were farther from obeying the arch-priest than they were before . so unhappy have the popes been , when they have gone about to use their authority for composing differences , among those who are in their own church ? but we leave this and come to a later controversie among them , about the same matters of order and government . richard smith titular bishop of chalcedon was invested with the authority of ordinary over their english clergy by vrban . febr. . a. d. . not long after he comes into england , and was received with so great kindness by their party here , as made the iesuits ( who are friends to none but themselves ) soon to become his enemies , especially when he began to exercise his episcopal jurisdiction here in laying restraints upon the regulars ; which the iesuits with other regulars grew so impatient of , that they soon revived the old quarrel concerning the authority and jurisdiction of bishops , and managed it with so great heat and fierceness , that the titular bishop was fain to leave the field and withdraw into france . the bottom of the quarrel was , they found the kindness of their party to them abated since the bishops coming , who before had sway'd all , and lived in great plenty and bravery , when the poor seculars got scarce bread to eate , as watson very sadly laments in his answer to parsons ; but now the necessary support of the dignity of a bishop , made the charity of their party run in another channel , which the provincial of the iesuits complains of in a letter to the bishop of chalcedon . therefore they endeavour all they can to make a party against him , among the people too ; which they did so effectually , as amounted to his withdrawing , ( a more civil word for his exile . ) and now both parties being sufficiently heated , the battel begins , in which not only england and ireland , but france and flanders were deeply engaged . the first who appeared was dr. kellison , professour of doway , in a book in vindication of the bishops authority , to whom knot then vice-provincial of the iesuits returned his modest and brief discussion , &c. under the name of nicholas smith a iesuite then dead . soon after came out another written to the same purpose under the name of daniel of iesu , whose true name was iohn fluide ( which the other , writing ioanes for iohn , was the anagram of , ) he was a iesuit too , and professour at st. omars : which books were first censured by the arch-bishop of paris , then by the sorbonne , and at last by the bishops of france in an assembly of them at paris : but the iesuits were so far from giving over by this , that they new set forth their books in latin with large approbations of them ; and publish a remonstrance against the bishop of chalcedon , in the name of the catholick party in england , which was disowned by the greatest number of them , and cast wholly upon the iesuits : the same year , . three books were published by the secular clergy here in opposition to the iesuits . who were so far from quitting the field by the number of their enemies , that they begin a fresh charge against both the sorbonne doctors and the french clergy , under the fained name of hermannus loemelius , whose chief author was the fore-named iesuite lloyd with the assistance of his brethren , as the diversity of the style shews : and another book came out against the faculty of paris in vindication of knot or nicholas smith , with many approbations of bishops , vniversities , and private doctors : and in vindication of the propositions of ireland ( likewise censured at paris ) another book came forth , under the name of edmundus vrsulanus , whose true name was mac-mahone , prior of the franciscan convent in lovain about the same time the iesuits published their censure of the apostolical creed in imitation of the censures at paris against their doctrine ( as though their doctrines were as certain as that , and themselves as infallible as the apostles : ) wherein they charge the bishops their enemies with reviving old heresies and broaching new ones . the iesuits having now done such great things , triumph unreasonably in all places , as having utterly overthrown their enemies , and beaten them out of the field : when in a little time after hallier and le maistre two doctors of the sorbonne undertake the quarrel against them ; but none was so highly magnified and infinitely applauded by the french clergy as a person under the disguised name of petrus aurelius , whose atchievements in this kind they celebrate next to those of the pucelle d' orleans , and printed all his works together at their own charge : and writ a high elogium of him which is prefixed before them . and the secular clergy of england sent him a letter of congratulation for his triumphs , subscribed by iohn colleton dean of the chapter , and edmond dutton secretary , wherein they sadly lament the discords that have been among them here , and the heresies broached by their adversaries by occasion of them . the main of-this controversie did concern the dignity , necessity , and jurisdiction of the episcopal order , as appears by the censures of the bishops of france , and by aurelius , who saith , that although the dispute began upon occasion of the bishop of chalcedon , and the english clergy , yet it was now carried farther , whether the episcopal order was necessary to the being of a particular church ? whether it was by divine right or no ? whether confirmation might be given without bishops ? whether the episcopal order was more perfect than the monastical ? whether the regulars were under the jurisdiction of bishops ? and therefore the iesuits are charged by their adversaries with a design to extirpate and ruine the whole order of episcopacy . have not these men now great reason to insult over us , that some of these questions have caused great differences among us , when the iesuits in england had laid the foundation of them by their quarrels of the same kind but a little before , and furnished the enemies to episcopacy and the church of england with so many arguments to their hands to manage their bad cause with ? but what becomes of the court of rome all this while ? do the pope and cardinals only stand still to see what the issue of the battel will be , without ever offering to compose the difference between the two parties ? no. the iesuits finding how hard they were put to it , make their address to rome as their greatest sanctuary , and a. d. . obtained a decree of the sacred congregation for suppressing the books on both sides , without judging any thing at all of the merits of the cause , or giving any censure of the authority on either side ? and is not now the popes authority an excellent remedy for all divisions in the church ? when in so great a heat as this was , the pope durst not interpose at all in the main business , for fear of losing either side ; which is a plain argument that they themselves look on his authority as so precarious a thing , that they must by no means expose it , where it is like to be called in question . were not here controversies fit to be determined ? to what purpose is that authority , that dare not be exercised when there is most need of it ? and when could there be greater need than in such a time when the church was in a flame by these contentions ? and yet so timerous a decree as this was , could find no acceptance . for at paris immediately comes out a disquisition upon it , shewing the unreasonableness of it in suppressing books without enquiring into the merits of the cause , in a matter of so great consequence as that was , that this would give great occasion of triumph to the hereticks , when such scandalous and seditious books as those of the jesuits are , meet with the same favour at rome with the censure of the bishops of france : that their profane and atheistical censure of the apostles creed must have no mark of disgrace put upon it : nor such sayings of theirs wherein they call the bishops and divines of france by most contumelious names , and say they are the enemies of the truth and piety . the iesuits instead of defending themselves against aurelius , write a pittiful defence of this decree of suppressing the books on both sides ; and so all the means which the court of rome durst use to extinguish this flame proved , but an occasion of adding to it . and whether this controversie be yet at an end among them , let all the heats in france and england of late years concerning the iesuits give testimony . § . . i shall not now insist any longer upon them , but only produce some late passages of things ( which though they happened at a greater distance , are yet sufficiently attested ) to shew what spight the iesuitical order bears to the authority of bishops , what arts they have used to enervate it , what power to affront their persons , and expose them to all the contempt that may be when they go about to stop their proceedings , or exercise any jurisdiction over them . the great occasion of the controversie between the bishops and them was , that the iesuits took upon them to preach , and hear confessions , &c. without any permission from the bishop of the diocese . so they did in the philippine islands , whereupon the arch-bishop of manille , don hernando guerrero called a synod , wherein it was resolved that the archbishop ought to bring the iesuits to account for what they did , which he did , and all the satisfaction he could get from them was , that they had priviledges ; the arch-bishop not satisfied with this , proceeds against them ; they name a conservator an enemy of the arch-bishops , ( for the popes to keep the bishops in awe , have allowed them by a bull for that purpose , liberty in case of difference between the bishops and them to choose a conservator to defend their priviledges against them ) this conservator proceeds against the arch-bishop , and the iesuits procure the governour to joyne with him , who without giving leave to him to make his defence resolve to banish him . the arch-bishop understanding their resolution to send him away , goes with the clergy about him into his chappel , and there to secure himself from the insolency of the souldiers in his pontifical habit , holds the eucharist in his hand : notwithstanding which they came and dragged out all the fryers who took the arch-bishops part , and afterwards the old arch-bishop himself , who fell down in the crowd with the pix in his hand and wounded himself in the face . such exorbitances made that impression on one of the souldiers that he drew his sword , and falling upon it said , he had rather dye by his own hands than see such enormities among christians . at last the arch-bishop was forced to let go his pix , and was presently carryed away out of the city , and put into a little pittiful barque unprovided of all things , without permitting any food to be given him or any of his servants to accompany him ; and was conveyed by five souldiers into a desart island , where he had not so much as a cabin for shelter ; and there he was kept till he yielded to their terms . o the admirable unity , peace , and submission to bishops in the roman church ! but we have yet a more remarkable instance of this kind , in the notorious case of the difference between the bishop of angelopolis in america , and the iesuits ; which was heard at rome , and several bulls published by innocent . in it . i shall give an account of it from the popes bulls , and from the letter which the bishop himself sent to the pope about it , a. d. . which is extant in the collection of the end of mr. s. amours iournal , which he had from cosimo ricciardi sub-librarykeeper of the vatican , who received it immediately from the bishops agent . the controversie began there upon the very same grounds , which it had done in the philippine islands , for the iesuits would acknowledge no subjection at all to the bishop , but would preach and hear confessions without any license from the bishop , which difference grew so high , that the iesuits chose conservators against the bishops authority ; as the popes bull granted , may . a. d. . doth declare ; and not only so , but these conservators very fairly excommunicated the bishop and his vicar general : upon this the bishop sends an agent to rome , and the iesuits appear in behalf of their society ; the pope commits the cause to a particular congregation of cardinals and bishops , who upon the hearing of both sides give sentence in favour of the bishop , apr. . a. d. . but the iesuits ( as appears by the bishops letter bearing date , ian. . a. d. . ) were resolved not to wait for the popes resolution , but finding that the people contemned their censures and adhered to the bishop , were so enraged at it , that they resolved to imprison him : to that end they bribe the king of spains vice-roy , the bishops particular enemy , with a great summ of money ; and by that means clapt up most of his friends , and threatned them with worse , if they would not obey the conservators ; the bishop himself they had appointed souldiers to seize upon on corpus christi day , ( the better day , the better deed ) who understanding their minds , sent commissioners to treat with them to prevent the tumults and disorders were like to follow on these differences ; but they used them with contempt and would hear of no terms , unless the bishop would submit himself and his jurisdiction to them and their conservators , but instead of peace they proceed to more open acts of hostility , by imprisoning his vicar general , and using all manner of insolencies among the people , who joyned with the bishop to defend him against them . the good bishop seeing things in so bad a posture , thought it his greatest prudence to withdraw to the mountains , thinking himself safer among the serpents and scorpions there , than in the city among the iesuits . there he continues for twenty dayes , almost famished , and afterwards for four months lay hid in a pittiful cottage , the iesuits in the mean time offering great summs of money to those who should bring him alive or dead . but not finding him , they bring the excommunicated conservators with great pomp into the city , and erect a tribunal or , in the language of the late times , a high●court of iustice among them , where according to their pleasure they fine , banish , imprison as many as they thought their enemies ; and there solemnly declare what mighty injury the bishop had done the iesuits , in forbidding them to preach without licenses from him , or till such time as they produced those which they had from his predecessours : then they declare the bishops see to be vacant ; and caused it to be published in the churches , that the iesuits did not need any license from the bishop , they null all censures against them , recall all orders published by the bishop for the good government of his diocese . the bishop in the mean time privately sends monitory letters to the people , to bear the present persecution with patience , but by no means to associate with , or to hear those excommunicated persons , who had offered such affronts to his authority and jurisdiction ; by which means , the people not being prevailed upon , they with a great summ of money procure some secular iudges to forme a judicial process against the bishop for sedition , to which end they suborn witnesses against him , but could make evidence of nothing tending to sedition but forbidding the iesuits to preach . this not taking , they attempt another way to expose him to contempt , upon the sacred day of their holy father ignatius , they put their scholars in mascarade , and so personating the bishop and his clergy , they make a procession through the town in the middle of the day , and sung the pater noster and ave maria as they went , with horrible blasphemies perverting both of them to the abuse of the bishop and his party , instead of saying libera nos à malo , they said libera nos à palafox , which was the name of the bishop : and others had the episcopal staffe hanging at a horses taile , and the miter on their stirrups , to let them see how much they had it under their feet : others sung lampoons against the bishop , others did such things which are not fit to be repeated : which were parts of this glorious triumph of the iesuits over the bishop and his authority . but in the midst of this excessive jollity , the king of spains navy arrived , wherein the kings commands were brought for removing the vice-roy , who was the great friend of the iesuits ; the news of this , abated their heat , and the bishop secretly conveys himself into his palace , which the people hearing of , ran with incredible numbers to embrace him , for several dayes together ; upon which the iesuits complain to the old vice-roy of a sedition , and obtained from him a command to the chapter not to yield to the bishops jurisdiction ; which caused a great division among them , one part adhering to the bishop , and another to the iesuits ; the bishop therefore seeing the differences to rise higher , and the schism to be greater , and the miserable condition the church was in among them ; was fain to submit and promise to innovate nothing , but to wait the popes decision . not long after , another ship arrived from spain , with an express from the king , wherein the vice-roy was commanded immediately to surrender his government , and was severely rebuked for assisting the iesuits against the bishop , and all the acts in that matter were nulled by the kings authority ; but the iesuits according to their usual integrity , gave out just the contrary to the orders received , and framed letters on purpose which they dispersed among the people . but these arts never holding long , when the vice-roy's successour was established , the truth brake forth ; and the bishop returned to the exercise of his former authority . but notwithstanding the kings declaration , and the popes breve was now published among them , the iesuits persisted still in their obstinate disobedience ; and although excommunicated by the bishop , yet continued to preach and act as before . and hereby we have a plain discovery what a mighty regard the iesuits have to the papal see , if it once oppose their designes ; and what an effectual instrument of peace and vnity the popes authority is ; for they presently found wayes enough to decline the force of the popes bull. for , ( . ) they said , it could have no force there , because it was not received by the council of the indies , it seems , pasce oves , and dabo tibi claves , &c. signifie nothing in the indies , unless the kings council pleases , or rather , unless the iesuits please to let it do so . ( . ) they pleaded bravely for themselves , that the priviledges granted them by the popes were in consideration of their merits , and so were of the nature of contracts and covenants ; and therefore could not be revoked by the pope . ( . ) that the popes constitutions in this matter were not received by the church , and laws which are not received are no laws : but as the bishop well urges against them , if these wayes of interpreting the popes bulls be allowed , his authority will signifie nothing , and all his constitutions shall have no more force than those against whom they are directed be pleased to yield to them ; and it will be impossible to preserve peace in the church , if it shall be in the power of offenders to declare whether the laws against them are to be received for laws or no. but this , saith he , is the inspiration and illumination of the iesuits , and their method of interpreting the papal constitutions ; which he heard very often from their own mouths in the frequent conferences he had with them about these matters ; but they had another way to decline the kings authority , for the king and his council being all lay-men , they had nothing to do in ecclesiastical matters . by which means ( as the bishop saith , ) they make themselves superiour both to king and pope , and free from all jurisdiction either spiritual or temporal . and i dare appeal to the most indifferent person , whether any doctrine broached by the greatest fanaticks among us , ever tended more to the dissolution of government , the countenancing sedition , the perpetuating schisms in the church , than these of the iesuits do ? and therefore the bishop saith , that he had rather lay down his life , than by yielding up his jurisdiction expose his authority to contempt , and the church to the continual danger of schisms ; and by many weighty arguments perswades the pope , if he truly designed the peace and flourishing of the church , speedily and effectually to reform the whole order of the iesuits ; without which , he saith , it is impossible , especially in those remoter parts , for the bishops to preserve any authority . and besides other corruptions among them , he tells strange stories of their wayes of propagating christian religion in china , and other neighbour nations ; which they boast so much of at this distance ; but , he saith , they who are so much nearer and understand those things better , have cause to lament the infinite scandals which they give to the christian religion in doing it . the account which he gives of these things , this bishop protests he sends to the pope , only to clear his own conscience , that he might not be condemned at the day of judgement for concealing that which he so certainly knew to be true by those who were eye-witnesses of it . their first work is , to hinder all persons of any other order whatsoever from coming among them ; and if they do come by one means or other , they are sure to procure their banishment and persecution ; to this end , they assist and counsel the infidels themselves in it , and make use of their hands to whip and imprison them , and so to make them weary of being there . when they are left alone , they have the liberty of telling their own stories , and no one can disprove them ; but they were not so watchful , but some of the other orders were sent as spyes upon them , and although they knew , they hazarded their lives in it , yet they made full discovery of the iesuits way of converting infidels . and they discovered such horrible things in the catechisms they gave to their new converts , that they complained to the pope of them , but , as appears by the event , to very little purpose● ; for although the iesuits could not d●ny the things they were charged with , and the congregation , de pr●pagandâ fide , at rome , s●pt . . a.d. in seventeen decrees condemned them , yet the rector of the iesuits colledge in the philippines in a book of pages , opposed those decrees , which was in the hands of the bishop of angelopolis , and he gave it to a dominican to answer , who had been in those parts himself , who fully proved the matter of fact , and answered the iesuits arguments , both which the bishop saith , were in his custody . the short of their instructions to their converts was this , to speak little of christ crucified , but to conceal that part of christian doctrine as much as may be , to use all the same customes that the idolaters did , only directing all their worship to christ and the saints ; not to trouble themselves about fasting , penance , confession , and participation of the eucharist , or the severity of repentance and mortification . they designed to recommend , as easie a religion to them as may be , the better to invite them to embrace it ; and therefore as the bishop observes , we read of no martyrs among them : the poor dominicans and franciscans are whipt , and imprisoned , and banished ; but the iesuits who preach only a glorious christ , without his passion and crosse , have far better and easier entertainment among them . but these things the bishop there gives a larger account of : i return to the controversie between the bishop and them : an agent was sent to rome by the bishop with this letter to negotiate his business there against the iesuits , a man intelligent , vigorous and undaunted , saith mr. s. amour of him ; who followed his business so close , that after long solicitation and address , he obtains another decree against the iesuits , which is extant at large in the lyons edition of the bullarium : but which ought to be observed , is since prohibited by the index expurgatorius of alexander . by whose means that was procured is easie to conjecture , when we consider with what difficulty the decree was obtained ; and for above a year after the passing it , the coming of it forth was hindred by cardinal spada under-hand , who was a great friend to the iesuits . and when it did come forth , the iesuits bought up all the copies of it they could , on purpose to abolish the memory of it : which made them obtain the prohibition of the bullarium , till that part were purged out of it . but if the popes had any real kindness for the authority of bishops , they would never suffer such encroachments to be made upon them , as they do , nor shew so much favour to the contemners of it . but this is one of the grand intrigues of the roman court , to keep the bishops down by the priviledges of the regulars who are immediate dependents on the popes ; only at some times when they cannot help it , they must seem to curb them , but yet so as to keep them in heart enough to bait the bishops , when they begin to exercise their authority as they ought to do in the reformation of abuses and disorders . but by these heats and controversies among them about matters of government and order , it appears that they have no cause to upbraid us with our dissensions about them : and that they have no more effectual means to suppress them than we. § . . . as to matters of doctrine . the least thing any one could imagine by all the boasts of vnity among them , and upbraiding others with their dissensions , is , that they are all of one mind in matters of doctrine ; but he must believe against common sense and experience that can believe this . for we know their divisions well enough , and that it is as easie a matter to compose all the differences among us as among them . we may assoon perswade the quakers to vniformity , as reconcile the dominicans and the iesuits ; and all our sects will agree assoon as the factions of the thomists and scotists ; the presbyterians and independents will yield to episcopal jurisdiction , assoon as the monastick orders will quit their priviledges ; the arminians and calvinists will be all of a mind when the iansenists and molinists are : and we are apt to think that our controversies about ceremonies are not altogether of so great importance as theirs about infallibility . but it is a very pleasant thing to see by what arts they go about to perswade credudulous people , that what would be called divisions any where else , is an admirable vnion among them ; they might assoon perswade them that the seven hills of rome are the bottomless pit ; or that contradictions may be true . for either the pope is infallible or he is not , either the supream government of the church is committed to him alone as s. peters successor , or to the representative church in a council , either he hath a temporal power to command princes , or he hath not ; either the v. mary was conceived with original sin , or she was not ; either there is a pre-determination , or there is not ; either souls may be delivered out of purgatory , or they may not : dare any of them say they are all of a mind in the church of rome about these points ? i am sure they dare not . but what then ? do they not differ from one another ? do they not write , and preach , and rail against each other as much as any sectaries can do ? are there not factions of long continuance among them upon these differences ? where then lyes their vnity they boast off ? alas ! we speak like ignorant persons , and do not consider what artificial men we have to deal with ; who with some pretty tricks and slights of hand make all that which seems to us shattered and broken in pieces to appear sound and entire without the least crack or flaw in it . it will be worth the while to find out these arts , for i do not question but by a discreet managing them , they may serve us as well as them , and our church will have , ( though not so much splendour ) yet as much vnity as theirs . they tell us therefore that it is true they are not all of a mind , and it is not necessary to the unity of the church that they should be : but , they have the only way of composing differences ; and they do not differ in matters of faith from each other ; and their differences lye only in their schools , and do not disturb the peace of the church . this is the utmost i can find their best wits plead for the vnity of the roman church ; and if these be sufficient , i believe they and we will be proved to be as much at unity , as they are among themselves . . they say the vnity of the church doth not lye in actual agreement of the members of it in matters of doctrine ; but in having the best means to compose differences and to preserve consent ; which is , submission to the popes authority . so gregory de valentiâ explains the vnity of their church ; for actual consent , he grants , may be in other churches as much as theirs , and there is nothing singular or peculiar attributed to their church , supposing they were all of a mind , which it is plain they are not ; but therein , saith he , lyes the vnity of their church , that they all acknowledge one head in whose judgement they acquiesce : and therefore they have no more to do but to know what the pope determines . if this be all their unity , we have greater than they , for we have a more certain way of ending controversies than they have : which i prove by an argument like to one in great request among them , when they go about to perswade weak persons to their religion , viz. that it must needs be safer to be in that religion wherein both parties agree , a man may be saved ; than in that where one side denies a possibility of salvation ; so say i here , that must be a safer way for unity which both parties agree in to be infallible , than that which one side absolutely denyes to be so ; but both parties agree the scriptures to be infallible , and all protestants deny the pope to be infallible ; therefore ours is the more certain way for vnity . but this is not all , for it is far from being agreed among themselves that the pope is infallible ; it being utterly denyed by some among them , and the asserting it accounted heresie : as is evident in some late books written to that purpose in france and england : what excellent means of vnity then is this among them ; which it is accounted by some no less than heresie to assert ? § . . but supposing they should yield the pope that submission which they deny to be due to him , yet is his definition so much more certain way of ending controversies than the scriptures ? let them name one controversie that hath been ended in their church meerly by the popes decrees ; so as the opposite party hath declared , that they believed contrary to what they believed before on the account of the popes definition . we have many instances to the contrary , wherein controversies have been heightened and increased by their interposing , but none concluded by them . do they say the scripture can be no means of vnity , because of the various senses which have been put upon it ? and have they no wayes to evade the popes definitions ? yes , so many , that his authority in truth signifies nothing , any farther than they agree that the upholding it tends to their common interest . but when onces he comes to cross the interest of any party , if they do not in plain terms defie him , yet they find out more civil wayes of making his definitions of no force . either they say the decree was procured by fraud , and the pope made it by mis-information , which is the common way , or he did not define it as a matter of faith sitting in cathedrâ , or the sense of his definition is quite otherwise than their adversaries understand it ; or supposing that be the sense , the pope is never to be supposed to define any thing contrary to the scriptures and fathers and ancient canons : of all which it were no difficult task to give late and particular instances ; but no one who is acquainted with the history of that church can be ignorant of them , and the late proceedings in the point of the five propositions are a sufficient evidence of these things to any one who reads them . for when was there a fairer occasion given to the pope to shew his authority for preservation of the churches unity , than at that time when the matter of the five propositions was under debate at rome : the same controversie was now revived which had disturbed their church so often and so much before . in the time of clement . the heats were so great between the iesuits and dominicans , that the pope thought it necessary for the peace of the church to put an end to them , to that end he appointed congregations for several years to discuss those points , that he might come to a resolution in them . this pope at first was strangely prepossest by the arts of the iesuits against the dominicans , but sending for the general of the dominicans , he told him what sad apprehensions he had concerning the peace of the church , by reason of the disputes between the iesuits and them ; and therefore charges him that those of his order should no longer molest the iesuits about these things ; to whom he replyed , that he assured him with as great protestation as he was able , that it was no meer scholastical dispute between them , but it was the cause of faith that was concerned ; which he discoursed largely upon to the pope , and made such impressions upon him , that the dominicans verily believe , that had that pope lived to the vespers of pentecost that year he dyed in march , he had published a bull against the iesuits in presence of the colledge of cardinals , and created f. lemos cardinal . after his death the congregations were continued in the time of paul . but at last were broken up without any decision at all . if the popes determination be such an absolute instrument of peace in the church , it is the strangest thing in the world , it should be made so little use of in such cases where they all acknowledge it would be of infinite advantage to their church , to have an issue put to such troublesome controversies as these were . but they know well enough , that the popes authority is the more esteemed the less it is used , and that it hath alwayes been very hazardous to determine where there have been considerable parties , on both sides ; for fear the condemned party should renounce his authority , or speak plainer truths than they are willing to hear . and therefore it was well observed by mons. s. amour , that they are very jealeus at rome of maintaining the authority of the decrees which issue from thence , and that this consideration obliges the maker of them to look very well to the compliance and facility that may be expected in their execution before they pass any at all . which is a most certain argument they dare not trust the popes infallibility , nor all the promises they pretend christ hath made to their church ; but govern their affaires wholly by the rules of humane policy . and on this account when the heats brake forth in france about iansenism ; and both parties made application to the court of rome , the pope could never be prevailed with to suffer the main controversies to be touched , or any decree to pass about them , but at last condemned some ambiguous propositions as taken out of iansenius his book ; which both parties condemned according to their different senses , and they were left to dispute it out , which sense it was the pope meant them in . and therefore the iansenists advocate who was well versed in the practices of the court of rome , gave them the truest account of the intentions of that court in their affaire , which was , to delude both the one side and the other ; and that cardinal ginetti had told him that either nothing would be done , or if any thing that which would doe neither good not hurt . and therefore in stead of ending the controversies , the popes definition only produced more , viz. whether the propositions condemned were in iansenius or no ? whether the pope might not erre in matter of fact ? the iansenists affirming this , the iesuits denying it and charging each other with no less than heresie about it . for upon the iesuits asserting octob. . a.d. . that the pope hath the same infallibility that iesus christ hath , not only in questions of right but in matters of fact , and that thence those of their church are bound to believe with a divine faith , that the . condemned propositions are in iansenius : the iansenists publish a charge of heresie against the iesuits and such as was never broached in the church before : being not only a solitary error or simple heresie , but a whole source of errors , or rather an universal heresie which overthrows all religion . which they goe about at large to prove by shewing , that this builds mens faith on the word of man and not on the word of god , because it concerns a thing neither revealed nor attested by god , as to know whether propositions are really an authors of this last age ; and ( as he goes on ) to make the popes word equal with the word of god , is not only heresie but horrid impiety and a species of idolatry : for this is giving to man the honour due only to god : because such an entire submission of our mind and of all our intellectuals comprehended in the act of our faith is that adoration which we pay to the prime verity it self . and i dare now leave any one to judge , whether upon so late an experiment of the constitutions of two popes innocent . and alexander . in order to the ending so great a controversie as this was , it be not apparent , that the popes authority signifies no more to the ending controversies , than the parties who are concerned are willing that it should i. e. as far as they doe consent to obey them and no farther ? § . . but it may be said , that it is true there are differences among them about the popes power and infallibility , and therefore he may not be so fit to end controversies , but there is no dispute among them , about pope and council together , therefore in that case they are all agreed , that they ought to submit . these are fine things to be said , and appeare plausibly to those who doe not search into them ; but those that doe , will easily find this as ineffectual a remedy as the other . for if we examine but the ways used by the several parties among them to avoid the decisions of some councils against their particular opinions , we may see how little the decrees of councils can bind those who have no mind to be tyed up by them . either they say the decision depended on a matter of fact , which the council was not sufficiently informed in , and they believe a council may erre in a matter of fact , or else it did not proceed after the way of a council , or it was not general , or its decrees were not received by the catholick church , or though some were received yet not all , or however , the infallibility of a council is not absolute ; but supposing that it proceeds according to the constant tradition of the church , which unavoidably leaves the matter as much under debate as if the council had never meddled with it . but if they doe in earnest believe , that the pope and council can put an end to all controversies among them when they please , i would fain know why they have not done this hitherto ? is not unity desirable among them ? if not , why doe they boast of it ? if it be , why have they not obtained it , since they can so easily doe it ? what made them so extremely cautious in the council of trent of meddling with any thing that was in controversie among themselves ? or was it , that they were all so much of a mind that they had nothing to doe , but to condemn their enemies ? which was so far from being true , that there were very few things which came into bebate , that they were agreed in , and therefore they were put sometimes to strange shifts to find out general and ambiguous terms which might not displease the dissenters , and yet leave the disputes as great as ever . they could not agree so much as about the title of the council , many of the bishops were for adding to the title of the most holy council , representing the church vniversal , which was eagerly opposed by the italians , and with much adoe avoided by the legats ; being no small controversie about words , but of very great consequence about the power and authority of pope and council , if they had been suffered to goe on in it . but the pope hearing of this dispute at the beginning , sent word to the legats , not to broach any new difficulties in matter of faith , nor to determine any of the things controversed among catholicks , and to proceed slowly in the reformation . excellent instructions for the advancement of peace and holiness ! whoever will for that end peruse that incomparable history of the council , will find how high the controversies among themselves were between the bishops and the regulars about priviledges , between the dominicans and francise●ins in many weighty points , between the italian bishops and others about residence and the extent of episcopal power , between the divines in most of the matters of doctrine , as might easily be shewed at large , if i loved the pains of transcribing ; but i had rather referre the reader to that excellent history it self . but i only renew my demand , why must no controversies among catholicks be ended in the council ? could they be better decided any where else ? if so , then the council is not the best means of vnity ; if not , then it seems there is no necessity of ending controversies among them , but they have vnity enough without it . and in truth , it is interest and not vnity they look after , all such who hold opinions contrary to their interest must be proceeded against and condemned ; but for others , let them quarrel and dispute as long as they will , they let them alone if they touch not the popes authority , nor any of the gainful opinions and practices which are allowed among them . and supposing their interest be kept up , which the inquisition is designed for , the court of rome is as great a friend to toleration as may be , only what others call different perswasions , they call school points , and what others call divisions , they call disputes ; the case is the same with their church and others , only they have softer names for the differences among themselves , and think none bad enough for those who cast off the popes authority and plead for a reformation . here then lyes the profound mystrey of their vnity , that they are all agreed against us , though not among themselves ; and are not we so against them too ? may not we plead for the vnity , that they have on the same grounds ? we are all agreed against popery , as much as they are against protestants ; only we have some scholastick disputes among us about indifferent things , and the episcopal authority , as they have ; we have some zealous dominicans , and busie and factious men such as the iesuits among them are ; but setting aside these disputes we are admirably well agreed , just as they are in the roman church . § . . . they say , they doe not differ in matters of faith . but this is as true as the other ; for are they agreed in matters of faith who charge one another with heresie ? as we have already seen that they doe . but if they mean that they doe not differ in matters of faith , because those only are matters of faith which they are agreed in ; they were as good say , they are agreed in the things they doe not differ about : for the parties which differ doe believe the things in difference to be matters of faith ; and therefore they think they differ from one another in matter of faith . but they are not agreed what it is which makes a thing to be a matter of faith ; and therefore no one can pronounce that their differences are not about matters of faith ; for what one may think not to be de fide , others may believe that it is ; we see the popes personal infallibility is become a catholick doctrine among the iesuits , and declared to be plain heresie by their adversaries . the deliverance of souls from purgatory by the prayers of the living is generally accounted a matter of faith in the roman church ; but we know those in it who deny it , and say it was a novel opinion introduced by gregory . against the consent of antiquity . it is a matter of faith , say the dominicans and iansenists to attribute to god alone the praise of converting grace , and that grace efficacious by it self , was the doctrine of fathers and councils and the catholick church ; and is it not then a matter of faith in their opinion , wherein the iesuits and they differ from each other ? to which purpose it was well said by the author of a book printed at paris a. d. . containing essayes and reflections on the state of religion , that because of the controversies between the iansenists and the iesuits , it might with more reason be affirmed now than in the time of arrianism it self , that the whole church seems to become heretical . for admitting , saith he , what is most certain that the church hath decreed calvinism , pelagianism and semipelagianism to be heresies , and that the doctors are those who sit in the chair to be consulted withall upon points of religion , all catholicks are reduced to a most strange perplexity . for if a man shall address himself to those of the iansenian party , they will tell him that those who are termed molinists are pelagians or at least semi-pelagians , and on the other side the molinists will bear him down that their adversaries are calvinists or else novatians . now all the doctors of the catholick church ( a very few excepted ) are either of the one or the other party . i leave you then to consider to what prodigious streights mens minds are reduced , since this is held as a general maxime , that whosoever fails in one point of faith , fails in all . it is a matter of faith , say the dominicans , that all persons , christ only excepted , were born in sin ; and therefore the contenders for the immaculate conception must in their judgment differ in a point of faith from them . but if this distinction should be allowed to preserve the unity of their church , why shall it not as well cure the divisions of ours . the most considerable in all respects of the dissenters from the church of england , declare that they agree with us in all the articles of doctrine required by our church ; will this be enough in their opinion to make us at unity with each other ? if not , let them not plead the same thing for themselves which they will not allow to us . i cannot understand that the controversies about ceremonies ( considered in themselves ) among us , are of any greater weight , than the disputes among the fryars concerning their habits have been ; and yet this controversie only about the size of their hoods lasted in one order almost an age together , and was managed with as great a heat and animosity , as ever these have been among us , and was with very much adoe laid asleep for a time by the endeavours of . popes successively . but if this signifies nothing to unity , to say , that the matters are not great about which the controversies are , if the disturbances be great which are caused by them , that will reflect more sharply on their church than on ours , which hath so many differences which they account not to be about any matters of faith . but if these differences in point of doctrine among them prove to be none in matters of faith , it would be no difficult task upon the same grounds to shew that they have no reason to quarrel with us for breaking the unity of their church , because then we may differ from them as little in matters of faith , as they doe from one another . this i need not take upon me to shew at large , because i find it already done to my hand by f. davenport , al. sancta clara in his paraphrastical exposition of the . articles of our church : about half of them he acknowledges to be catholick , as they are without any further explication . the first he meets with difficulty in is that , about the number of canonical books point blank against the council of trent , but he acknowledges that cajetan and franciscus mirandula fully agree with our church in it , who quote hierom , ruffinus , antoninus , and lyra of the same opinion , as they might have done many others ; but because our church doth not cast them wholly out of the canon , he dares not say it is guilty of heresie simply ; and the rather because waldensis and driedo do hold that it is only in the power of the whole church successively from the apostles , to declare what books are canonical and what not . for the . article about justification , he saith the controversie is only about words , because we are agreed that god alone is the efficient cause of justification , and that christ and his passion are the meritorious cause of it ; and the only question is about the formal cause , which our church doth not attribute to the act of faith as he proves by the book of homilies . but only makes it a condition of our being justified , and they believe that by faith we obtain our righteousness by christ ; so that he can find no difference between them and us in that point . he saith , the controversie about merit may be soon ended according to the doctrine of our church , for they deny as well as we article . . that any works done before the grace of christ , and inspiration of his spirit , can merit any thing , and when we say , article . that good works which follow justification , are pleasing and acceptable to god in christ ; if by that we mean , that they are accepted by christ in order to a reward , by vertue of the promise of god through christ , that is all the sense of merit , which he or the school of scotus contends for . for works of supererogation article . he saith our church condemns them upon that ground , that men are said to do more by them than of duty they are bounden to do , which being generally understood they condemn , he saith , as well as we ; because we can doe no good works which upon the account of our natural obligation we are not bound to perform , though by particular precept we are not bound to them . in the article where our church saith , that the church of rome hath erred not only in their living and manner of ceremonies , but also in matters of faith ; he distinguisheth the particular church of rome from the catholick church , which is frequently understood by that name , and he saith it is only a matter of faith to believe , that the catholick church hath not erred , and not that the particular church of rome hath not . in the . article our church declares , that the church ought neither to decree any thing against holy writ , so besides the same it ought not to enforce any thing to be believed of necessity to salvation ; this he interprets of what is neither actually nor potentially in the scriptures , neither in terms nor by consequence ; and so he thinks it orthodox , and not against traditions . article . wherein our church determins expresly against the infalibility of general councils , he understands it only of things , that are not necessary to faith or manners ; which he saith is the common opinion among them . the hardest article one would think to bring us off in , was the . viz. that the romish doctrine concerning purgatory , pardons , worshipping and adoration as well of images as of reliques , and also invocation of saints is a fond thing , vainly invented and grounded upon no warranty of scripture . but we need not despaire as long as one bred up in the schools of scotus designes our rescue ; he confesses it to be a difficult adventure , but what will not subtilty and kindness doe together ? he observes very cunningly , that these doctrines are not condemned absolutely and in themselves , but only the romish doctrine about them ; and therein we are not to consider what the church of rome doth teach , but what we apprehend they teach , or what we judge of their doctrine , i. e. that they invocate saints as they doe god himself , that purgatory destroys the cross of christ , and warms the popes kitchin ; that pardons are the popes bills of exchange , whereby he discharges the debts of what sinners he pleases ; that they give proper divine worship to images and reliques ; all which , he saith , are impious doctrines , and we doe well to condemn them . so that it is not want of faith , but want of wit , this good man condemns us for ; which if we attain to any competent measure of whereby to understand their doctrine , there is nothing but absolute peace and harmony between us . this grand difficulty being thus happily removed , all the rest is done with a wet finger : for what though our church , art. . saith , that it is a thing plainly repugnant to the word of god , and the custome of the primitive church to have publick prayer in the church , or to minister the sacraments in a tongue not understood of the people . yet what can hinder a scotist from understanding by the scripture , not the doctrine or command of it , but the delivery of it , viz. that the scripture was written in a known tongue ? nay he proves that our church is for praying in latin by this article , because that either is a known tongue or ought to be so , it being publickly lickly taught every where : and if it be not understood , he saith , it is not per se but per accidens that it is so ; i suppose he means the latin tongue is not to blame that the people do not understand it ; but they that they learned their lessons no better at school . but what is to be said , for women who do not think themselves bound to go to school to learn latin ? he answers very plainly , that s. paul never meant them , for he speaks of those who were to say amen at the prayers , but both s. paul. and the canon law , he tells us , forbid women to speak in the church . the case is then clear , s. paul. never regarded what language the women used ; and it was no great matter whether they understood their prayers or not . but what is to be said to the council of trent , which pronounces an anathema to those who say , that prayers are to be said only in a known tongue ? this doth not touch our church at all he thinks , because in some colledges the prayers are said in latin : but although that be a known tongue there , it is no matter , as long as the council of trent hath put in the word only , that clears our church sufficiently . besides the council of trent speaks expresly of the masse , which our article doth not mention , but only publick prayers : and the council of trent speaks of those who condemns it as contrary to the institution of christ , but our church only condemns it as contrary to the institution of the apostle ; but all the commands of the apostles are not the commands of christ , therefore our church declares nothing against faith in this article . are not we infinitely obliged to a man that uses so much subtlety to defend our church from errrour in faith ? but that which is most considerable is , what he cites from canus , that it is no heresie to condemn a custome or law of the church , if it be not of something necessary to salvation ; especially if it be a custome introduced since the apostles times , as most certainly this was . for the five sacraments rejected by our church , art. . he saith , they are not absolutely rejected as sacraments , but as sacraments of the same nature with baptism and the lords supper , which they yield to . for transubstantiation , which is utterly denyed by our church , art. . he very subtilly interprets it of a carnal presence of christs body , which he grants to be repugnant to scripture , and to destroy the nature of a sacrament , but they do believe christs body to be present after the manner of a spirit ; and so our church doth not condemn theirs . as to communion in both kinds , asserted by our church , art. . he saith , it is not condemned by the council of trent therein , which only anathematizes those who make it necessary to salvation , which our church mentions not : and however we condemn communion in one kind , canus proves him not to be guilty of heresie , who should say that the church hath erred therein . the article condemns the sacrifice of the masse , i.e. saith he , independently on the sacrifice of the crosse , which is propitiatory of it self , and the other only by vertue of it . the . of the lawfulness of priests marriage , he understands of the law of god ; in respect of which it is the most common opinion among them , he saith , that it is lawful . the . about traditions , he interprets of those which are not doctrinal . the book of homilies approved art. . he understands as they do books approved by their church , not of every sentence contained therein , but the substance of the doctrine ; and he grants there are many good things contained therein . for the . of consecration of bishops and ministers , he proves from vasquez , conink , arcudius , and innocent . that our church hath all the essentials of ordination required in scripture : and if the difference of form of words did null our ordinations , it would do those of the greek church too . the last article he examins is , art. . of the civil magistrates power in opposition to the popes authority ; and he grants , that the king may be allowed a supermacy , i.e. such as may not be taken away by any one as his superiour : and that by custome , a sufficient right accrues to him over all ecclesiastical causes : and that by divine and natural right he hath jurisdiction over all ecclesiastical persons , so far as the publick good is concerned . and withall he grants that we yield no spiritual jurisdiction to the king , and no more than is contended for by the french , and the parliament of paris . that part which denyes the popes jurisdiction in england , he saith , may be understood of the popes challenging england to be a fee of the roman see ; but if it be otherwise understood , he makes use of many scholastick distinctions of actus signatus & exercitus , &c. the sense of which is , that it is in some cases lawful for a temporal prince to withdraw his obedience from the pope ; but leaves it to be discussed whether he had sufficient reason for doing it . but there can be no heresie in matter of fact : it remains then according to the sense put upon our articles by him with the help of his scholastick subtleties , we differ no more from them in points of faith , than they do from one another . for such kind of distinctions and senses are they forced to use , and put upon each others opinions , to excuse them from disagreeing in articles of faith ; and there is no reason that we should not enjoy the benefit of them as well as they : so that either they must be guilty of differing in matters of faith , or we are not . § . . . they plead , that their differences are only confined to their schools , and do not disturb the peace of the church . but there is as little truth in this , as there is vnity in their church : as plainly appears by what hath been said already . was the controversie about the popes temporal power confined to the schools ? did not that make for several ages as great disturbances in the church , as were ever known in it upon any quarrel of religion ? were the controversies between the bishops and the monks confined to their schools , about the extent of the episcopal jurisdiction in former times , or in the renewing of this hierarchical warr ( as one of the iansenists calls it ) in france ? but these things are at large discovered already ; i shall only adde one thing more , which seems more like a dispute of the schools between the several orders among them about the immaculate conception ; and it will easily appear that whereever that dispute began , it did not rest in the schools , if we consider the tumults and disturbances which have been made only on the account of it . this controversie began in the schools about the beginning of the century , when scotus set up for a new sect in opposition to thomas aquinas , and among other points of controversie , he made choice of this to distinguish his followers by ; but proposed it himself very timerously , as appears by his resolution of it in his book on the sentences ; however his followers boast , that in this blessed quarrel he was sent for from oxford to paris , from paris to cologne to overthrow all adversaries , and that he did great wonders every where . but however this were , there were some not long after him , who boldly asserted what he doubtfully proposed , of whom franciscus mayronis is accounted the first ; after him petrus aureolus , occam and the whole order of franciscans . but the great strength of this opinion lay not in the wit and subtilty of the defenders of it , nor in any arguments from scripture or antiquity , but in that which they called the piety of it , i. e. that it tended to advance the honour of the b. virgin. for after the worship of her came to be so publick and solemn in their church , i do not in the least wonder , that they were willing to believe her to be without sin . i much rather admire they do not believe all their canonized saints to have been so too ; and i am sure the same reasons will hold for them all . but this opinion by degrees obtaining among the people , it grew scandalous for any man to oppose it . so walsingham saith towards the latter end of this century , the dominicans preaching the contrary opinion against the command , first of the bishops in france , and then of the king and nobles ; they were out-lawed by the king , and absolutely forbid to go out of their own convents for fear of seducing the people : and not only so , but to receive any one more into their order , that so the whole order might in a little time be extinguished . the occasion of this persecution arose from a disturbance which happened in paris upon this controversie , one ioh. de montesono publickly read against the immaculate conception , at which so great offence was taken , that he was convented before the faculty of sorbonne , but he declared that he had done nothing but by advice of the chief of his order , and that he would defend what he had said to death . his propositions were condemned by the faculty and the bishop of paris , upon which he appeals to the pope , and goes to avignon to clem. . where the whole order of dominicans appears for him , and the vniversity against him by their deputies of whom pet. de alliaco was the chief . the assertions which he was condemned for , relating to this matter were these following , as they are written in a manuscript of petr. de alliaco from which they are published by the late author of the history of the vniversity of paris . . to assert any thing to be true which is against scripture , is most expresly contrary to faith . this is condemned as false and injurious to the saints and doctors . . that all persons , christ only excepted , have not derived original sin from adam , is expresly against faith . this is condemned as false , scandalous , presumptuous , and offensive to pious ears . which he affirms particularly of the b. virgin , and is in the same terms condemned . . it is as much against scripture to exempt any one person from original sin , besides christ , as to exempt ten . . it is more against scripture , that the b.v. was not conceived in original sin , than to say that she was both in heaven and on earth from the first instant of her conception or sanctification . . that no exception ought to be allowed in explication of scripture , but what the scripture it self makes . all which are condemned as the former . against these censures he appeals to the pope , because therein the doctrine of st. thomas which is approved by the church is condemned , and that it was only in the popes power to determine any thing in these points . upon this the vniversity publishes an apologetical epistle , wherein they declare that they will rather suffer any thing , than endure heresie to spring up among them , and vindicate their own authority in their censures ; and earnestly beg the assistance of all the bishops and clergy in their cause , and their care to suppress such dangerous doctrines ; this was dated febr. . a. d. . but being cited to avignon , thither they send the deputies of the vniversity , where this cause was debated with great zeal and earnestness about a years time ; and at last the vniversities censure was confirmed , and ioh. de montesono fled privately into spain . but the dominicans did not for all this give over preaching the same doctrine , upon which a grievous perfecution was raised against them as appears not only by the testimony of walsingham , but of the continuer of martinus polonus , who saith , that insurrection were every where made against them , and many of them were imprisoned , and the people denyed them alms and oblations , and they were forbidden to preach , or read lectures , or bear confessions , in so much that they were made , he saith , the scorn and contempt of the people : and this storm lasted many years , and there was none to help them : because their enemies believed in persecuting them , they did honour to the b. virgin. nay the kings confessour the bishop of eureux was forced to recant for holding with the dominicans , and to declare that their opinions were false and against faith ; and they made him upon his knees beg the king that he would write to the king of arragon and the pope , that they would cause ioh. de montesono to be sent prisoner to paris , there to receive condigne punishment . the next year , a. d. . they made adam de soissons , prior of a dominican convent publickly recant the same doctrine before the vniversity ; and stephen gontier was sent prisoner to paris by the bishop of auxerre as suspected of heresie , because he joyned with his brethren in the appeal to the pope : and another called iohannes ade was forced to recant four times for saying that he favoured the opinions of ioh. de montesono . but these troubles were not confined only to france , for not long after , a. d. . iohn king of arragon published a proclamation that no one under pain of banishment should preach or dispute against the immaculate conception : and in valenci● one moses monerus was banished by ferdinand on that account , because the tumults could not be appeased without it . lucas waddingus in his history of the embassy about the immaculate conception , gives a short account of the scandals that have happened by the tumults which have risen in spain and elsewhere on this controversie , which he dares not relate at large , he saith , because of the greatness of them : such as happened in the kingdom of valencia , a. d. . in the kingdom of aragon , a. d. . in barcelona , a. d. . and . and . in catalonia , a. d. . and . in all which drawn from the publick records , he saith , the princes were forced to use their utmost power to repress them for the present , and prevent them for the future : so in the kingdom of murcia , a. d. . in boetica or andaluzia , a. d. . in castile , a. d. . the like scandals he mentions in germany and italy on the same account , and withall he saith , that these continued notwithstanding all the endeavours of popes , princes , bishops and vniversities ; but the tumults , he saith , that happened of later years in spain , were incredibly turbulent and scandalous , and drawn from the authentick registers which were sent by the several cities to the king , and by the king to the pope , which were so great , that those alone were enough to move the pope to make a definition in this controversie . especially considering that the same scandals had continued for years among them , and did continue still , notwithstanding paul . constitution . which is no wonder at all , considering what the bishop of malaga reports , that the iesuits perswade the people to defend the immaculate conception with sword and fire , and with their blood . and i now only desire to know whether these be meer disputes of the schools among them o● no , and whether they have not produced as great disorders and tumults among the people , as controversies about points of faith are wont to do ? so that upon the whole matter , whether we respect the peace of the world , or factious disputes in religion , i see no advantage at all the church of rome hath above others ; and therefore reading the scriptures can be no cause of divisions among us ; since they have been so many and great among those , who have most prudentially dispensed , or rather forbidden it : which was the thing i intended to prove . chap. vi. an answer to the remainder of the reply . the mis-interpreting scripture doth not hinder its being a rule of faith . of the superstitious observations of the roman church . of indulgences ; the practice of them in what time begun , on what occasion , and in what terms granted . of the indulgences in iubilees , in the churches at rome , and upon saying some prayers . instances of them produced . what opinion hath been had of indulgences in the church of rome : some confess they have no foundation in scripture , or antiquity , others that they are pious frauds : the miserable shifts the defenders of indulgences were put to : plain evidences of their fraud from the disputes of the schools about them . the treasure of the church invented by aquinas and on what occasion . the wickedness of men increased by indulgences acknowledged by their own writers : and therefore condemned by many of that church . of bellarmins prudent christians opinion of them . indulgences no meer relaxations of canonical penance . the great absurdity of the doctrine of the churches treasure on which indulgences are founded , at large manifested . the tendency of them to destroy devotion proved by experience , and the nature of the doctrine . of communion in one kind ; no devotion in opposing an institution of christ. of the popes power of dispensing contrary to the law of god in oaths and marriages . the ill consequence of asserting marriage in a priest to be worse than fornication , as it is in the church of rome . of the uncertainty of faith therein . how far revelation to be believed against sense . the arguments to prove the uncertainty of their faith defended . the case of a revolter and a bred papist compared as to salvation : and the greater danger of one than the other proved . the motives of the roman church considered ; those laid down by bishop taylor fully answered by himself . an account of the faith of protestants laid down in the way of principles : wherein the grounds and nature of our certainty of faith are cleared . and from the whole concluded , that there can be no reasonable cause to forsake the communion of the church of england and to embrace that of the church of rome . § . . having thus far vindicated the scriptures from being the cause ( by being read among us ) of all the sects and fanaticisms which have been in england , i now return to the consideration of the remainder of his reply . and one thing still remains to be cleared concerning the scripture , which is , whether it can be a most certain rule of faith and life , since among protestants it is left to the private interpretation of every fanciful spirit : which is as much as to ask , whether any thing can be a rule , which may be mis-understood by those who are to be guided by it ? or , whether it be fit the people should know the laws they are to be governed by , because it is a dangerous thing to mis-interpret laws , and none are so apt to do it as the common people ? i dare say , st. augustin never thought that heresies arising from mis-understanding scriptures , were a sufficient argument against their being a rule of faith , or being read by the people , as appears by his discoursing to them in the place quoted by him . for then he must have said to them to this purpose , good people , ye perceive from whence heresies spring , therefore as you would preserve your soundness in the faith , abstain from reading the scriptures , or looking on them as your rule ; mind the traditions of the church , but trust not your selves with the reading what god himself caused to be writ : it cannot be denyed that the scriptures have far greater excellency in them than any other writings in the world ; but you ought to consider the best and most useful things are the most dangerous when abused . what is more necessary to the life of man than eating and drinking ; yet where lyes intemperance and the danger of surfetting , but in the use of these ? what keeps men more in their wits than sleeping , yet when are men so lyable to have their throats cut as in the use of that ? what more pleasant to the eyes than to see the sun , yet what is there so like to put them out as to stare too long upon him ? therefore since the most necessary and useful things are most dangerous when they are abused ; my advice must be that ye forbear eating , sleeping and seeing , for fear of being surfetted , murdred or losing your sight ; which you know to be very bad things . i cannot deny but that the scriptures are called the bread of life , the food of our souls , the light of our eyes , the guide of our wayes ; yet since there may be so much danger in the use of food , of light , and of a guide , it is best for you to abstain from them . would any man have argued like st. augustin that should talk at this rate ? yet this must have been his way of arguing , if his meaning had been to have kept the people from reading the scriptures , because heresies arise from mis-understanding them . but all that he inferrs from thence , is what became a wise man to say , viz. that they should be cautious in affirming what they did not understand ; and that hanc tenentes regulam sanitatis , holding this still as our rule of soundness in the faith , with great humility ; what we are able to understand , according to the faith we have received , we ought to rejoyce in it as our food , what we cannot , we ought not presently to doubt of , but take time to understand it ; and though we know it not at present , we ought not to question it to be good and true : and afterwards saith , that was his own case as well as theirs . what , s. augustine a guide and father of the church put himself equal with the people in reading and understanding scriptures ! in which we not only see his humility , but how far he was from thinking , that this argument would any more exclude the people from reading the scriptures than the great doctors of the church . for i pray , were they the common people who first broached heresies in the christian church ? were arius , nestorius , macedonius , eutyches , or the great abettors of their doctrines , any of the vulgar ? if this argument then holds at all , it must hold especially against men of parts and learning , that have any place in the church , for they are much more in danger of spreading heresies by mis-interpreting scriptures than any others are . but among protestants , he saith , scripture is left to the fanciful interpretation of every private spirit . if he speaks of our church he knows the contrary , and that we profess to follow the unanimous consent of the primitive fathers as much as they , and embrace the doctrine of the four general councils . but if there have been some among us , who have followed their own fancies in interpreting scripture ; we can no more help that , than they can do in theirs ; and i dare undertake to make good , that there have never been more absurd , ridiculous , and fanciful interpretations of scripture , than ( not the common people , but ) the heads of their church have made , and other persons in greatest reputation among them . which though too large a task for this present design , may ere long be the subject of another . for the authority of henry . in the testimony produced from him , when they yield to it in the point of supremacy ; we may do it in the six articles or other points of popery which he held to the last . but we think it an advantage to our cause in the matter of supremacy , that they who were papists , in other points as well as this against reading the scriptures , yet contended so earnestly against the popes authority as henry . and stephen gardiner , bonner , and the rest did . doth he imagine that henry . is owned by us to be head of our church as the pope is with them , so as to think him infallible ? he would be head of the popish church in england in spight of the pope , but he never pretended to be head of the reformation , any farther than the supremacy went ; and if they will not believe him , when he was influenced , as they think , by cranmer , neither are we to be tyed to his opinion when he was guided by stephen gardiner or any other , who were not greater enemies to cranmer than to the reformation . § . . the next thing , wherein i said the sincerity of devotion is much obstructed in their church was by the multitude of superstitious observations never used in the primitive church , as i said i was ready to defend ; to this , his answer is very short . . that i should have said to prove ; but so weak was i as to think the affirmative was to be proved and the negative defended . . he denyes any such to be used in their church . i desire then to know his opinion of baptizing bells , with god-fathers and god-mothers holding the rope in their hands , being buried in a monks habit , pilgrimages to images of saints , sprinkling holy water , spittle and salt in baptisme , their rites of exorcism , agnus dei's , the pageantry of the passion-week , the carrying about of the host , the numbering of ave marias and pater nosters to make rosaries and psalters of the b. virgin , the burning tapers at noon day particularly on candlemas day with great devotion , the incensing of images , with many others which might be mention'd : and if he can vindicate these from superstition , it will be no hard task to vindicate the heathens in the ceremonies of their devotion ; and to prove that there can be no such thing as superstition in the world . § . . i now come to the gross abuse of people in pardons and indulgences , by which i said the sincerity of devotion was much obstructed among them : he tells me , as an eye-witness , that there is great devotion caused by them in catholick countries ; there being no indulgence ordinarily granted , but enjoyns him that will avail himself of it to confess his sins , to receive the sacraments , to pray , fast and give alms , all which duties are with great devotion , he saith , performed by catholick people , which without the incitement of an indulgence had possibly been left undone . i will not be so troublesome to enquire what sincerity of devotion that was , he was an eye-witness of , which was caused by indulgences , nor what sort of persons they were who were thus devout at receiving them . i think it will be sufficient for my purpose to prove , that no persons in the world , who understand what indulgences mean , in the church of rome , can be excited to any devotion by them ; but that on the contrary they tend exceedingly to the obstructing of it : which i shall doe by shewing , that either they are great and notorious cheats , if that be not meant by them which is expressed in them ; or if it be , that nothing could be invented that tends , more to obstructing their own way of devotion than these doe . . that they are great and notorious cheats , if that be not meant by them which is expressed in them . for which we are to understand first what hath been expressed in their indulgences . . what opinion those of their own church have had concerning them . § . . . what hath been expressed in their indulgences ; the eldest indulgences we meet with are those which were made by the popes , to such who undertook their quarrels against their enemies ; and the first of this kind i can meet with is , that of anselm bishop of luca legat of gregory . which he gave to those of his party who would fight against the emperour henry . which baronius relates from his poenitentiary , in which was promised remission of all their sins to such who would venture their lives in that holy war. and gregorius . himself in an epistle to the monks of marscilles who stuck close to him promised an indulgence of all their sins . the like indulgence with remission of all their sins , was granted to those who would fight against the saracens in africa by victor , who succeeded gregorius . ; after him followed vrban . who granted an indulgence to all who would goe in the war to the holy land , of all their sins , and as gul. tyrius saith , expressely mention'd those which the scripture saith , doe exclude from the kingdom of god , as murder , theft , &c. and not only absolved them from all the penances they deserved by their sins , but bid them not doubt of an eternal reward after death , as malmsbury saith ; the like is attested by ordericus vitalis in whose younger days this expedition began : upon which he saith , all the thieves , pyrats , and other rogues came in great numbers and listed themselves , having made confession of their sins ; and if we believe s. bernard , there were very few but such among them ; which he rejoyceth very much in : and saith , there was a double cause of joy in it , both that they left the countries where they were before , and now went upon such an enterprise which would carry them to heaven . this way of indulgences being thus introduced , was made use of afterwards upon the like occasions by callictus . a. d. . by eugenius . a. d. . by clem. . a. d. . and others after them , who all promised the same indulgences that vrban . had given . and it is well observed by morinus , that these indulgences cannot be understood of a meer relaxation of canonical penances ; because such a remission of all sins is granted , upon which eternal life followes , and therefore must respect god and not barely the church : and because absolution was to be given upon them , which saith he , according to the discipline then in the church ought not to be given , but till the canonical penance had been gone through , or at least the greatest part of it . but therein he is very much mistaken , when he saith , that the popes never granted these plenary indulgences , but only to encourage an expedition to the holy land : for gelasius . a. d. . granted the same to the christian souldiers at the siege of saragoza , as appears by the bull it self in baronius . honorius . in the quarrel he had with roger of sicily gave the same to all , who having confessed their sins should dye in the war against him ; but , if they chanced to escape with their lives , but half their sins were pardoned . alexander . gave to his friends at ancona who should visit the . churches and their own cathedral all lent fasting , as full an indulgence as if they went to hierusalem ; and besides this every first sunday in the month as great an indulgence , ( i. e. i suppose for as many days ) as a man could take up sands in both hands . this baronius thinks a little too much : and therefore rejects it as fabulous , because the same pope in an indulgence given to the church of ferrara grants but a year of criminals and a seventh part of venials ; but he doth not consider that the case of ancona was peculiar , because of the great friendship that city had shewn to the pope in his distress , and this indulgence was transcribed from a very ancient manuscript , and better attested than many other things which he never disputes . but if it be a cheat let it pass for one ; and it is no great matter to me whether it were a cheat of the popes , or the church of ancona . but he doth not at all question the indulgence granted by the same pope to those who would take up arms against the albigenses , which to those who dye in that cause , is not only pardon of all their sins , but an eternal reward : but such that refused to goe , no less than excommunication is denounced against them . and honorius . in the same cause , granted an indulgence in the same terms as to those who went to the holy land : and gregorius . to all who should take his part against the emperour frederic . which bzovius confesseth to be usual with the popes , to give to those who would fight against saracens , hereticks or any other enemies of theirs . this practice of indulgences being once taken up was found too beneficial to be ever let fall again ; and private bishops began to make great use of it , not in such a manner as the popes , but they were unwilling not to have as great a share as they could get in it ; thence they began to publish indulgences to those who would give money towards the building or repairing churches or other publick works , for this they promised them a pardon of the . or . or . part of their sins according as their bounty deserved . this was first begun by gelasius . for the building of the church of saragoza a. d. . and was followed by other bishops ; in so much that morinus is of opinion , that mauricius bishop of paris built the great church of nostredame there in that manner ; and he saith , he can find no ground for this practice of indulgences before the . century ; and answers bellarmins arguments for a greater antiquity of them , and proves all his testimonies from gregories stations , ludgerus his epistle , and sergius his indulgence in the church of s. martin at rome produced by baronius to be meer impostures . but the bishops of rome , finding how beneficial these indulgences were , soon resolved to keep the keys of this treasury of the church in their own hands ; and therefore quickly abridged other bishops of this power ; and made great complaint that by the indiscreet use of indulgences by the bishops , the keys of the church were contemned and discipline lost ; so innocent . in the council of lateran , can . . ; and therefore decrees that in the dedication of a church , though where there were several bishops together , they should not grant any indulgence above a year , nor any single bishop above . days . but we are not to imagine that the popes ever intended to tye their own hands by these canons ; but they were too wise to let others have the managing of so rich a stock as that of the church was ; which would bring in so great a harvest from the sins of the people . thence boniface . first instituted the year of iubilee a. d. , and in his bull published for that end , grants not only a plenary , and larger but most plenary remission of sins to them that ( if romans for , if strangers for . days in that year ) should visit the churches of the apostles . this was brought afterwards by clem. . to every . years , and since , to . or as often as his holines please : but in all of them a most plenary remission of sins is granted . it were worth the while to understand the difference between a plenary , larger and most plenary indulgence : since bellarmin tells us , that a plenary indulgence takes away all the punishment due to sin . but these were the fittest terms to let the people know they should have as much for their money as was to be had , and what could they desire more ? and although bellarmin abhorres the name of selling indulgences , yet it comes all to one , the popes gives indulgences and they give money ; or they doe it not by way of purchase but by way of alms : but commend me to the plain honesty of boniface . who being not satisfied with the oblations at rome , sent abroad his iubilees to colen , magdeburg , and other cities , but always sent his collectors to take his share of the money that was gathered , and inserted in them that clause porrigentibus manus adjutrices , which in plain english , is to those who would give money for them : without which no indulgence was to be had , as gobelinus persona saith . who likewise addes this remarkable passage , that the preachers of the indulgences told the people to encourage them to deale for them , that they were not only à poená but à culpâ too , i.e. not meerely from the temporal punishment of sin , but from the fault it self which deserved eternal ; this made the people look into them , and not finding those terms but only a most plenary remission , they were unsatisfied because they were told that the fault could be forgiven by god alone ; but if they could but once find that the pope would undertake to clear all scores with god for them , they did not doubt but they would be worth their money . whereupon he saith those very terms were put into them : then the wiser men thought these were counterfeit and made only by the pardon-mongers ; but upon further enquiry they found it otherwise . how far this trade of indulgences was improved afterwards in the time of alexander . and leo . the reformation which began upon occasion of them , will be a lasting monument which was the greatest good the world ever received by them . § . . but we are not to think , since indulgences are such great kindnesses to the souls of men , that they should be only reserved for years of iubilee ; for what a hard case may they be in who should chance to dy but the year before ? therefore the popes ( those tender fathers of the church ) have granted very comfortable ones to many particular places , and for the doing some good actions , that no one need be in any great perplexity for want of them . other places it is probable a man may goe to heaven assoon from as rome , but there is none like that for escaping purgatory ; if a man confess his sins and but stumble into one of the . churches , it is a hard case if he doth not escape at least for one thousand years . i need not reckon up what vast pardons are to be had there at easie rates ; since they have been so kind at rome to publish a catalogue of them in several books ; an extract out of which is very lately set forth in our own language . those who have gone about to compute them , have found that indulgences for a million of years are to be had at rome on no hard terms : bellarmin would seem to deny these pardons for so many years , as far as he durst , as though they were not delivered by authentick writers ; but i desire no more than what cnuphrius hath transcribed , from the archives of the churches themselves ; and we may judge of the rest by what caesar rasponi a canon of the lateran church and a present cardinal hath written lately of that one church , in a book dedicated to alexander . he tells us therefore there is so vast a bank of the treasure of the church laid up there , that no one need goe any further to get full pardon of all his sins ; and that it is impossible for any one to reckon up the number of the benefits to be had there by it . in the feast of the dedication of that church , at the first throw , if a man be well confessed before , he gets if he be a roman a pardon of a . years , if a tuscan ; but if he comes from beyond sea . years ; this is well for the first time . the like lottery is again at that church on c●ena domini . but boniface . would never stand indenting with men for number of years , but declares , if men will come either for devotion or pilgrimage , ( no matter which ) he shall be clear from all sin : and what would a man have more ? but besides this , there are other particular seasons of opening this treasury , and then one may take out as much as they can wish for : as when the image of our saviour is shewn , all that come thither , have their sins pardoned infallibly : and many other days in the year , which the author very punctually reckons up , and are so many that a canon of that church may dispose of some thousands of years , nay plenary remissions , and yet escape purgatory at last himself . but besides what belongs to the church it self , there is a little oratory or chapple belonging to it called the holy of holies , where it is impossible for any man to reckon up the number of indulgences granted to it . these vast numbers of years then are no fiction of pardon-mongers , as bellarmin is sometimes ready to say ; unless he will have the popes called by that name , or charge the holy churches at rome with so gross impostures . § . . but suppose it should be a mans fortune never to see rome ( as it hath many a good mans ) must he be content to lye and rot in purgatory , or trust only to the kindness of his friends ? no , we that live at this distance , have some comfort left : there are sonne good prayers appointed for us to use , which will help us at a need ; or else the book of the houres of the b. virgin secundunm usum sarum is strangely mistaken ; but herein i am likewise prevented by the autho●● of the preface lately mention'd ; but my edition being elder than either of those mention'd by him seems to have something peculiar to it or at last omitted by him . as when it saith of the prayer obsecro te domina sancta maria , &c. tho all them that be in the state of grace , that daily say devowteli this prayer before owre blessed lady of pity she wolle show● them her blessed vysage , and warn them the day and owre of deth , and in there last end the angells of god shall yield there sowles to heaven , and he shall obtayn hundreth yeres and soo many lenttis of pardon graunted by holy fathers popes of rome . that is pretty well for one prayer ! but this is nothing to what follows to a much shorter prayer than that . our holy father sixtus . pope hath graunted to all them that devoutly say this prayer before the image of our lady in the sone eleven thousand years of pardon . a prayer said to good purpose ! i confess i can hardly stoop now to those that have only dayes of pardon promised them ; yet for the sake of the procurer i will mention one . our holy father pope sixtus hath graunted at the instance of the highmost and excellent princesse elizabeth late quéen of englond and wyfe to our soveraign liege lord king henry the th . god have mercy on her sweet soull and all cristen soulls that every day in the morning after tollinges of the ave ●ell say times the hole salutation of our lady ave maria gratiâ that is to say , at the klock in the morning ave maria att of the klock at none ave maria and att a klock at even , for every time so doing is graunted of the spiritual treasour of holy church hundreth dayes of parden totiens quotiens . to which is annexed the pardon of the two arch-bishops and nine bishops , forty dayes a piece , three times a day , which begun , a. d. . the seventh year of henry . and the summ of the indulgence and pardon for every ave maria is days totiens quotiens . but if a man thinks himself well provided already , and hath a mind to help his friends , there is nothing like the o. s of st. brigitt : thys be the o. os. the which the holy uirgin s. brygytta was woente to say dayle before the holy rode in s. pauls church at rome , who soe says this a yere he schall deliver soulles out of purgatory of his next kyndred , and convert other sinners to gode lyf and other righteous men of his kynd shall persevere in gode lyf . and wat ye desyre of god ye schall have it , if yt be to the salvation of your sowle . not long after we find a better endowment with number of years than any we have yet met with . to all them that before this image of pytie devoutly say pater noster and aves & a credo , pityously beholding these armes of crystys passion , are graunted thirty two thousand seven hundred and fifty years of pardon ; and sixtus the . pope of rome hath made the and the prayer , and hath doubled his foresaid pardon . the prayer with boniface . his indulgence of ten thousand years pardon will hardly down with me now : much less that niggardly grant of iohn . of a hundred dayes pardon . what customers doth he hope to find at such sordid rates ? sixtus . for my money ; witness this indulgence . our holy father sixtus . graunted to all them that beyn in state of grace , sayeing this prayer following ymmediately after the elevation of the body of our lord clene remission of all their sins perpetually enduring . and also iohn the pope of rome at the request of the quéen of england hath graunted unto all them that devoutly say this prayer before the image of our lord crucified as many days of pardon as there were wounds in the body of our lord in the tyme of his bitter passion , the which were . it is well sixtus came after him , or else his market had been spoyled , the other so much out-bid him . next to clean pardon , iohn . offers fair ; only the task is somewhat harder , it being for three prayers . thys prayers be wrytton in the chappelle of the holy crosse in rome otherwise called s●cellum sanctae crucis romanorum , whoo that devoutly say them shall obtayn years of pardon for dedly sins graunted by our holie father iohn . pope of rome . methinks he should have come to a full hundred thousand , when his hand was in ! but there is one odd condition implyed in some of these prayers , called being in a state of grace , the want of which may hinder the effect of them ; but although due confession with absolution will at any time put a man into it , yet is there no remedy without it ? we will try once more for that , and end these indulgences . and i think the prayer of s. bernardine of siena will relieve us . thys most devoutly prayer sayd the holy father s. bernardine daylie kneeling in the worship of the most holy name iesus . and yt is well to believe that through the invocation of that most excellent name of iesu , s. bernard . obtayned a singular reward of perpetual consolation of our lord iesu christ. and thys prayer is written in a table that hangeth at rome in s. peters church nere to the high awter , there as our holy father the pope duely is wonte to say the office of the masse . and hoo that devoutly with a contrite heart dayly say this oryson yf he be that day in the state of eternal damnation , than this eternal payne shall be chaunged him in temporal payne of purgatory , than yf he hath deserved the payne of purgatory , yt shall be forgotten and forgiven thorow the infinite mercy of god. this is enough of all reason . and so much shall serve to set forth what the practice of indulgences hath been in the church of rome and what is expressed in them . § . . . i now come to give account what opinion hath been had of these indulgences in their own church , wherein some have freely confessed they have no foundation in scripture or antiquity , others that they are only pious frauds , and those who have gone about to defend them , have been driven to miserable shifts in the defence of them . . some have confessed that they have no foundation in scripture or antiquity . durandus saith , that very little can be affirmed with any certainty concerning indulgences , because neither the scripture speaks expresly of them , and the fathers ambrose , hilary , august . , hierome speak not all of them : and therefore he hath no more to say , but that the common opinion is to be followed herein . the same is said by another school-man , who addes this , that though it be a negative argument , yet it is of force , because in the time of those fathers they were very much skilled in the scriptures , and it were very strange if indulgences were to be found there that they did not find them . this is likewise affirmed by cajetan , dominicus soto , and all those who assert that the use of indulgences came into the church upon the relaxing the severity of the primitive discipline , which they say continued in use for a years after christ. but the most express testimonies in this case are of bishop fisher , who saith that the use of indulgences came very late into the church ; and of polydore virgil following his words , and of alphonsus à castro , who ingenuously confesseth , that among all the controversies he writes of , there is none which the scripture or fathers speak less of , than this ; but however , he saith , though the use of them seem to have come very late into the church , they ought not to be contemned , because many things are known to latter ages , which the ancient writers were wholly ignorant of ; for which he instanceth in transubstantiation ; procession from the son , and purgatory . but he ought to have remembred what himself had said before in a chapter of finding out heresies , that , the novelty of any doctrine makes it of it self to be suspected , because christ and his apostles did give sufficient instructions for attaining eternal life ; and after the law given by christ no other law is to be expected , because his testament is eternal . let this be applyed to his own confession of these doctrines , and the consequence is easily discerned . and it is an excellent saying of bellarmin , that , in things which depend on the will of god , nothing ought to be affirmed , unless god hath revealed it in the h. scriptures . therefore according to the opinion of these persons who assert the doctrine of indulgences to have no foundation in scripture or antiquity , it can be no other than a notorious cheat. . some in the church of rome have called them pious frauds . this appears by the controversies which arose upon indulgences , at the same time when they began to grow common . for aquinas and bonaventure tell us , that there were some in the church who said , that the intention of the church in indulgences was only by a pious fraud to draw men to charitable acts , which otherwise they would not have done ; as a mother which promiseth her child an apple to run abroad , which she never gives him , when she hath brought him to it . which is the very instance they used , as gregory de valentiâ confesseth . but this aquinas rejects as a very dangerous opinion , because this is in plain terms to make the church guilty of a notorious cheat ; and as , he saith , from st. augustine , if any falshood be found in scripture , it takes away the authority of the whole ; so if the church be guilty of a cheat in one thing , she will be suspected in all the rest . this , saith bonaventure , is to make the church to lye and deceive , and indulgences to be vain and childish toyes . but for all these hard words , they had a great deal of reason on their side : for the indulgences were express for the remission of the sins of those who did such and such things , as the giving a small summ of money towards the building of a church , or an hospital ; they therefore asked whether the indulgences were to be taken as they were given or no ? if they were , then all those had full remission of sins on very easie terms ; if not , then what is this else but fraud and cheating , and can be only called pious because the work was good which they did ? this put the defenders of indulgences very hard to it ; praepositivus , one of the eldest of the schoolmen confesseth that it looks a little oddly for a man to be absolved from all his sins for three pence , given in three several places ; and that the rich by this means have a mighty advantage over the poor : but he resolves it all into the power of the church . petrus cantor confesseth the difficulties great , but only for the churches authority ; and especially in those general indulgences which are pronounced without any distinctions . therefore he saith greg. . as he calls him ( morinus thinks greg. . ) in the dedication of the church of benevento , told the people it was much safer for them to undergoe their penance than to receive an indulgence from him of any part of it : and another bishop , being desired an indulgence would give it but for two dayes ; but if any one asks , whether the remission of sins were presently obtained after indulgence , or only when they are uncapable of penance , viz. after death ; for his part , he saith , he desires them to consult the pope or the bishop that gives the indulgence , whether of these opinions is true ; and when the bishop of paris shewed him the magnificent church he had built by vertue of indulgences , cantor told him , he had done much better if he had let them alone , and perswaded the people to undergoe their penance . but because the form of indulgences ran in such large and general terms ; it grew to be a great question among the schoolmen , whether the validity of indulgences was as great as the words of them ? which in other terms is whether the church did cheat or not in giving them ? for if they were not to understand them according to the plain words of them ; what is this but a gross imposture to abuse the credulous people , and laugh in their sleeves at them for their simplicity . for while the people have so good an opinion of their church as to believe the truth of what she declares , and to take indulgences according to the sense of the words ; if their meaning who give them be otherwise than is expressed , it is one of the most abominable cheats that ever was invented by men . for picking purses , forging deeds , or betraying men are tolerable things in comparison ; but to abuse and ruine their souls under a pretence of pardoning their sins , is the utmost degree of fraud and imposture . let us now see how these hucksters defend their church in this case ; for the question hath been debated among the schoolmen ever since indulgences came up . some resolve it thus , that indulgences do signifie as much as the church declares , but with these conditions , that there be sufficient authority in the giver , necessity in the receiver , that he believes the church hath power to give them , that he be in a state of grace , and give a sufficient compensation , which is to overthrow what they said , unless those conditions were expressed in the indulgences . some say that common indulgences held only for sins of ignorance , others for venial sins , others for penances negligently performed , others for purgatory pains . some again said that these could signifie no more than a relaxation of canonical penance , whatever the words were , and that they were introduced for no other end ; and they do not reach any farther than the churches canonical power or judgement doth , and not to the judgement of god. but this opinion , saith greg. de valentiâ doth not differ from the hereticks ; and withall , he saith , upon this principle , indulgences do more hurt than good ; for if it were not for them ; the sinner by his penance might take away some part of his punishment , but now he relyes upon his indulgence and does no penance , and so undergoes his whole punishment . albertus m. saith , they are much mistaken who say that indulgences are to be understood as large as their words are , without any farther condition ; and that this is to enlarge the court of gods mercy too far ; and sayes many conditions are to be understood , which are not expressed in them . this gave the first occasion to the treasure of the church , invented by aquinas to satisfie this argument of albertus concerning the mercy of god being extended too far by indulgences ; for hereby what punishment is taken away from one is made up by the punishment of another , which is reckoned upon his account . and therefore , he saith , the cause of the remission of punishment is not the devotion , work , or gift of the receiver , but the treasure of merits which was in the church which the pope might dispense ; and therefore the quantity of the remission was not to be proportioned to the acts of the receiver , but to the stock of the church ? this rich banck of the churches stock being thus happily discovered , they do not question now but to set all accounts even with it ; and therefore aquinas confidently affirms , that indulgences are to be understood simply as they are expressed ; for god , saith he , doth not need our lye or deceit ; which he grants , must have been if indulgences had not been meant as they were expressed ; and all men would sin mortally who preached indulgences , yet to obtain the indulgence , he saith , that every man must give according to his ability ; for the objection being put , concerning an indulgence being given to three several places , that whosoever gives a penny towards the building of a church in every one of these places , shall for each of them have the third part of his sins forgiven him , so that for three pence a man gets a plenary remission ; he answers , that a poor man may indeed have it so , but it is to be understood that a rich man ought to give more . for it is all the reason in the world that a rich man should pay greater vse for the stock of the church , than a poor man can do : and it is reasonably to be presumed that he had more sins to be pardoned than the other , and therefore whatever the general terms are , there must be some reserve to hook in more from the rich than was expressed in the first bargain . but if the rich man should plead law in the case , and cry out it was covin and fraud , to demand more than the first contract was ; i am not skilful enough to determin what action the church can have against him . but there is another shrewd objection mentioned by bonaventure , which is , that a man gets by sinning , as suppose two men to receive the remission of a third part of their sins by an indulgence , one owes but it may be years penance for his sins , and another hath run upon the score so far that he owes years , both receive a third part indulgence ; in which case we see plainly the greater sinner hath mightily the advantage of the other , and where one gets but . the other gets . and therefore bonaventure is fain to run back again and to say , that indulgences are not to be understood as they are expressed , and that they are not equal to all ; but it was not fit to express it so , because this would hinder peoples esteem of the indulgence . which in plainer terms is , that it is necessary to cheat the people , or else there is no good to be done by indulgences . thence petrarch called them nets wherein the credulous multitude were caught ; and in the time of boniface . the people observing what vast summs of money were gathered by them cryed out they were meer cheats and tricks to get money with , upon which paulus langius ( a monk ) exclaims . o god , to what are these things come ! thou holdest thy peace , but thou wilt not alwayes , for the day of the lord will bring the hidden things of darkness to light . conrad . vrspergensis saith , that rome might well rejoyce in the sins of the people , because she grew rich by the compensation which was made for them : thou hast ( saith he to her ) that which thou hast alwayes thirsted after , sing and rejoyce , for thou hast conquered the world , not by religion , but by the wickedness of men . which is that which draws them to thee , not their devotion and piety . platina saith , the selling indulgences brought the ecclesiastical authority into contempt , and gave encouragement to many sins . vrspergensis complains , that plenary indulgences brought more wickedness into the world ; for , he saith , men did then say , let me do what wickedness i will , by them i shall be free from punishment , and deliver the souls of others from purgatory . gerson saith , none can give a pardon for so many years as are contained in the popes indulgences but christ alone : therefore what are they but cheats and impostures ? in spain , indulgences were condemned by petrus de osma a divine of salamanca and his followers , as appears by the popes bull against them , a. d. . in germany by i●hannes de vesaliâ a famous preacher of mentz ; for serrarius reckons this among the chief of his opinions , that indulgences were only pious frauds and wayes to deceive the people , and that they were fools who went to rome for them . about the same time flourished wesselus groningensis incomparably the best scholar of his age , and therefore called lux mundi , he was not only skilled in school divinity ( almost the only learning of that time ) but in the greek , hebrew , chaldee and arabick , having travelled into greece , aegypt , and been in most vniversities of europe , and read the most ancient authors in all kinds of learning ; on the account of his learning he was much in favour with sixtus . and was present and admired at the council of basil ; but he was so far from being a friend to indulgences , that in his epistles he saith , that no popes could grant an indulgence for an hour , and that it is a ridiculous thing to imagine that for the same thing done , sometimes an indulgence should be granted for years , sometimes for , sometimes for , and sometimes for ever by a plenary remission ; and that there is not the least foundation in scripture for the distinction of remitting the fault and the punishment , upon which the doctrine of indulgences is founded . that the giving them was a design of covetousness , and although the pope once sware to the king of france's embassadour , that he did not know the corruptions of the sellers of indulgences , yet when he did know them he let them alone , and they spread farther . that god himself doth not give plenary remission to contrition and confession , and therefore the pope can much less do it : but if god doth forgive , how comes the pope to have power to retain ? and if there be no punishment retained when god forgives , what hath the pope● to do to release ? against him writes one iacobus angularis , he confesseth there is nothing in scripture or antiquity expresly for indulgences ; but that ought to be no argument , for there are many other things owned in their church as necessary points which have as little foundation as this , viz. s. peters being at rome , and sacramental confession ; and therefore at last he takes sanctuary in the popes and churches authority . to this wesselus answers , that indulgences were accounted pious frauds before the time of albertus and thomas ; that there was a great number of divines did still oppose the errours and practices of the court of rome in this matter ; that supposing the church were for them , yet the authority of scripture is to be preferred before it , and no multitude of men whatsoever is to be believed against scripture : that , he had not taken up this opinion rashly , but had maintained it in paris thirty three years before , and in the popes poenitentiary court at rome ; and was now ready to change it , if he could see better reason for the contrary . that the doctrine of indulgences was delivered very confusedly and uncertainly , by which it appeared to be no catholick doctrine : that it is almost impossible to find two men agree in the explication of them , that the doctrine of indulgences was so far from being firmly believed among them , that there was not the strictest person of the carthusian or other orders that should receive a plenary indulgence at the hour of death , that yet would not desire his brethren to pray for his soul : which is a plain argument he did not believe the validity of the indulgence : that many in the court of rome did speak more freely against them than he did . that , the popes authority is very far from being infallible ; or being owned as such in the church ; as appeared by the divines at paris condemning the bull of clement . about indulgences , wherein he took upon him to command the angels , and gave plenary remissions both from the fault and punishment . which authentick bulls , he saith , were then to be seen at vienne , limoges and poictou . it is notorious to the world what complaints were made in germany after his time of the fraud of indulgences , before any other point of religion came into dispute ; and how necessarily from this , the popes authority came to be questioned , that being the only pretence they had to justifie them by : and with what success these things were then managed , it is no more purpose to write now , than to prove that it is day at noon . the council of trent could not but confess horrible abuses in the sale of indulgences , yet what amendment hath there been since that time ? bellarmin confesseth , that it were better if the church were very sparing in giving indulgences : i wonder why so ; if my adversaries experience and observation be true , that they prove great helps to devotion and charity . can the church be too liberal in those things which tend to so good an end ? § . . but bellarmin would not have the people too confident of the effect of indulgences ; for though the church may have power to give them ; yet they may want their effect in particular persons ; and therefore , saith he , all prudent christians do so receive indulgences , as withall to satisfie god themselves for their sins , i. e. in plain terms , that all prudent christians are too wise to believe them , and none but fools do rely on them . for if there were any thing but fraud and imposture in them , why may not a prudent christian trust a church which he believes infallible ? if the head of the church publishes an indulgence , wherein he remits to all that are confessed and contrite , upon doing such actions of charity and piety the remaining temporal punishment of their sins : i desire to know why a prudent christian of that church may not , yea ought not to rely upon his word ? doth he suspect the head of his church may cheat and abuse him ? if he doth , what becomes of infallibility ? if he verily believes that the pope cannot erre and will not deceive , why must not his word be taken ? and how can his word be taken for the remitting of a debt , when they take as much care of payment as if he had said nothing ? i know not how those things pass among the prudent christians of that church , but to me they look like the greatest suspicion of a cheat that may be . as suppose a great person out of kindness to one that is in danger of lying in prison for debt , gives him a note under his hand , that upon the acknowledgment of his debt to his attourney , and paying him his fees , he will see his debt wholly discharged ; and a friend of the prisoner tells him openly , he ought to receive that favour in an extraordinary manner with all thankfulness ; for that person is one who can never fail of his word ; and he need not question his ability for he hath a vast treasure in his hands , to be disposed of for such uses ; can we otherwise think , but that the poor man would be strangely surprised with joy at it ; and if he hath any money left , he will be sure to give it to the person imployed in so good a work ? but withall if he should secretly whisper him , that he advises him as a friend , that he would look out all other wayes imaginable to satisfie his creditours , and that all prudent persons in his case had taken the same course ; what must the thoughts of such a man be of such a large and noble offer ? truly , that the gentleman was a great courtier , but a man must have a care of believing him too far ; and his friend understood the world , and that one thing was to be said and done in shew not to disoblige so great a person , but for all that , a man must mind his own business , or he may be choused at last if he trust too far to such large promises . this is just the case of indulgences in the roman church ; a man is affrighted with the dreadful prison of purgatory , as the temporal punishment of his sins , which god will certainly exact from him , either here by satisfactions and penances , or there in the pains of that state ; while the man considers with himself the hardness of his condition , he hears of indulgences to be had ; and after he hath enquired the meaning of them is very well satisfied , that if he can get one of them , he shall do well enough . for he is told that his holiness is infallible , and that he cannot cheat or lye , or deceive like other men , and therefore of all persons in the world he would soonest trust him ; but because many others are in the same condition with him , he may a little question , whether his stock will hold out or no : here his friends assure him the treasure of the church , ( of which the pope hath the keys ) is so large , that if it were a thousand times more , he need not fear it ; only he must confess his sins and have contrition for them , and do some charitable acts , and pay some customary fees and duties , and he shall have a total discharge . well , sayes the man in a transport of joy , this is the bravest church in the world for a man to sin in , if he may escape thus : and what need i question , since the pope is infallible , and the treasury of the church is inexhaustible ? how am i freed now , not only from the fears of hell and purgatory , but from crabbed and hateful penances ? that honest and kind-hearted gentleman the pope hath struck a tally for me in his exchequer , and i shall have my share in my course and order ; without lashings , and whippings , and fastings , and mumblings , and i know not how many odd tricks besides : but soft and fair , saith bellarmins prudent christian to him , be not too confident of your ease and discharge , you must use as great severities with your self , and undergoe as many penances , and say as many prayers as if you had no indulgence at all . say you so , i pray what benefit then have i , saith he , by this which you call an indulgence ? what is it an indulgence of ? is there not a full remission of sins contained in it ; and i have been always told by that is meant the discharge of the temporary punishment due to sin either here or in purgatory ? shall i be discharged , or shall i not upon it ? if i shall , what do you tell me of that which i am discharged from ? if not , the indulgence is a spiritual trapan , and the pope and infallible cheat. i cannot see how a man can think otherwise , that made such account of the great benefit of indulgences , and at last finds they come to nothing but deceiving the people and getting money . § . . by this we see already , what miserable shifts they are put to , who defend indulgences but as an honest contract , but they who will justifie them as containing something divine and satisfactory for the punishment of mens sins , are fain to build the doctrine of them upon such absurd and unintelligible notions , that it is almost as hard to understand as to believe it . it cannot be denyed , that there are some in the church of rome whose doctrine of indulgences is easie enough , but then it marrs the whole markett , and this doctrine is therefore condemned by others as heretical in sense . which is , that indulgences are nothing else but a relaxation of the ancient severity of church discipline , according to the old penitential canons ; which doth not respect the justice of god , but the discipline of the church over offenders . this is a doctrine we have nothing to complain of the difficulty of understanding , but we know not to what purpose , ( if this be all ) any particular indulgences are ever given , since there is so general an indulgence by the practice of the whole church among them , wherein they cannot pretend to observe any of the old penitential canons . and to give a man an indulgence to omit that , which no body requires and is wholly out of use , would be like the kings giving a man a patent not to wear trunk-hose and ruffs , when it would be ridiculous to use them . and if this were all intended , why is it not so expressed if they meant honestly ? but they know , if their pardons ran so , no one would give a farthing for them . what need any talk of the churches treasure for this ? which clement . made the ground of indulgences in his bull : and hath been asserted by the most zealous defenders of them . this way of explaining indulgences then , though it be easie and intelligible , yet it is not reconcileable with the practice of the church of rome , nor with the suppositions on which that practice is built . we are therefore to enquire what they can make of it , who go about to defend it as it is practised and generally understood among them . to this end they tell us , that although the fault be remitted upon the sacrament of penance , yet the temporal punishment of sin remains , which god must be satisfied for : that this temporal punishment is either to be undergone here or in purgatory , that every man must have undergone it himself , if there had not been a treasure of the church made up of the satisfactions of christ , and the saints , to make amends to god for every one to whom that treasure is applyed . that , the dispensing of this treasure is in the hands of the pope , who gives it out by indulgences , which being applyed to any person upon the condition required , he is thereby discharged from the debt of temporal punishment which he owed to god. this is the received doctrine of indulgences in the roman church ; which holds together till you touch it , and then it presently flies in pieces like a glass drop , or vanishes into smoke and aire . it is of so tender a composition that it can endure no rough handling ; if you like it as it is , much good may it do you , but you must ask no questions : but however i shall , to shew the monstrous absurdities of this doctrine . . why if the indulgence only respects the punishment and not the fault , the terms of the indulgence do not express this , that the people may not be deceived ? why in all indulgences since this doctrine is so explained as in the iubilees of clement . and of vrban . ( the former of whom is applauded by bellarmin for a reformer of indulgences ) the most general expressions are still used of most plenary indulgence , remission and pardon of all their sins ? why is it not said only of the temporal punishment due to sin , the fault being supposed to be remitted ? . how punishment doth become due , when the fault is remitted ? if the punishment be just , it must have respect to the fault , for to punish without respect to the fault , is all one as to punish without fault ; if it have respect to the fault , how that fault can be said to be remitted which is punished ? so far as a man is punished , it is nonsense to say he is pardoned , and so far as he is not pardoned , his fault is charged upon him . . suppose temporal punishment remain to be satisfied for ; whether all or only some one kind ? whether diseases , pains , and death be not part of the temporal punishment of sin , and whether men may be freed from these by indulgences ? whether from the effects of the justice of god in extraordinary judgements ? if not , how can a man be said to be freed from the temporal punishment of sin that is as lyable to it as any one else ? . if only one sort of the temporal punishment of sin , why is not that one sort declared what it is , that all men may be satisfied from the pope himself , whom some believe infallible , in his indulgence ? others we find are not agreed about it ; some say it is only the punishment due to sin above the canonical penance ; some , that it is only the canonical penance and not that which is due from the justice of god , some that it is for both , some only for negligence in performing penance , some that it is only for injoyned penance , and others that it is for all that may be enjoyned . in this diversity of opinions what security can any man have what punishment he is to be freed from ? . if it be from canonical penance whether a man is wholly freed from the obligation to that or no ? if he be , what power hath the priest to enjoyne penance after ? if he be not free , what is it he is freed from ? and in what tolerable sense can this be called a most full remission of sins , which neither remits the fault , nor the natural or divine punishment , nor so much as the canonical penance enjoyned by a priest ? . although there needs no treasure where nothing is discharged ; yet since so great a one is spoken of for this purpose , wherein the satisfaction of christ bears the greatest share ; it were worth the enquiring why the satisfaction of christ might not as well remit the temporal punishment when the fault is remitted on the account of it , as afterwards by indulgences ? . how the parts of christs satisfaction come to be divided into that which was necessary , and that which was redundant ; so as the necessary satisfies for the fault , and the redundant for the temporal punishment ? whether christ did any more than god required ? whether any thing which god required can be said to be redundant ? if there be , how one part comes to be applyed and the other cast into a treasure ? what parts can be made of an infinite and entire satisfaction ? and if so little were necessary , and so much redundant , how the least part comes to satisfie for the fault and eternal punishment ; and the greatest only for the temporal punishment ? . whether all the satisfaction of christ taken together were not great enough to remit the eternal punishment of the whole world ? if it were , whether all the redundant parts of that , be cast into a treasure too ? and who hath the keeping of it , and what use is made of so much more useful a treasure than that which serves only to remit the temporal punishment ? what account can the pope give of suffering so vast a part of the churches treasure to lye idle and make no use of it for the benefit of those that need it ? . may not the pope , if he thinks of it , gather another mighty treasure of the absolute power of god which is never used , as for making new worlds , & c ? may he not by the help of this deliver souls out of hell , as well as by the other out of purgatory ? and if this be so much the greater kindness , he ought to think of it and imploy this treasure for these purposes . why may he not think of another treasure of the light of the sun that is more than enough for the use of the world , and to lay it up in store for the benefit of the purblind and aged ? . if the satisfaction of christ be so redundant ; how comes it not to be sufficient for so poor an end as indulgences serve for ; but the satisfactions of the saints must make up a share in this treasure too ? is not this worse , than to light a candle to help the sun , to suppose christs satisfaction so infinite , as to be sufficient to redeem more worlds , and yet not enough to deliver from temporal punishment without the satisfactions of the saints ? . how come the saints to make such large satisfactions to the justice of god , if the satisfaction of christ were of so infinite a nature ? and if they did make satisfactions , were they not sufficiently rewarded for them ? if they were , how come those satisfactions to help others which they were so abundantly recompensed for themselves ? . if the satisfaction of christ doth only obtain grace for the saints to satisfie themselves for the temporal punishment of their sins ; how can the application of this satisfaction by indulgences free any from the temporal punishment of their sins ? or have the satisfactions of saints being joyned with christs greater power now in common penitents , than the satisfaction of christ alone in the greatest saints ? . why the satisfaction of christ may not serve , without the saints to remit only the temporal punishment of sins ; when it was sufficient alone to remit both eternal and temporal in the sacrament of baptism ? or was the force of it spent then , that it needs a fresh supply afterwards ? but if then it could be applyed to a higher end , without any other help , why not where it is to have far less efficacy ? . if satisfaction be made to god for the temporal punishment of penitents by indulgences ; i desire to know when and by whom the payment is made to god ? if it was made by the persons whose satisfactions make the churches treasure , for that end , what hath the pope to do to dispense that which god hath accepted long agoe for payment ? if it be made by the pope , in what way doth he make it ? doth he take out so much ready cash of the churches treasure and pay it down upon the nail , according to the proportion of every ones sins ? or doth he only tell god where such a treasure lyes and bid him go and satisfie himself , for as much as he discharges of his d●bt ? . how came this treasure of the church into the popes keeping ? who gave him alone the keys of it ? if there were any such thing , methinks those who are trusted with the greater treasure of christs necessary satisfaction for the remitting of eternal punishment , as every priest is by their own doctrine in the sacrament of penance : should not be denyed the lesser of the superfluities of christ and the saints sufferings for the remitting only temporal punishment . when i once see these questions satisfactorily answered , i may then think better of this doctrine than i doe at present ; for the best i can think of it now is , that there never was a doctrine more absurd in the ground of it , or more gainful in the practice than this of indulgences in the roman church ; and therefore ought to be accounted one of the most notorious cheats that ever was in the christian world . § . . but let us suppose it otherwise , and then we are to enquire , whether this would tend to promote or obstruct that very way of devotion , which is most in request in the roman church ? there are but two ways to judge of this , either by experience or the nature of the doctrine it self . for experience my adversary alledges his own , and that he hath seen great devotion caused by them : but by his favour the question is not , what outward acts of devotion may be performed by some ignorant and silly people , who are abused by great hopes of strange benefits by indulgences , and therefore prepare themselves with some shew of devotion to receive them especially when they are unusual ; but the question is , whether they have these effects upon those who understand the nature and designe of them and the doctrine of their church about them . for as durandus resolves it , the validity of the indulgence doth not depend on the devotion of the receiver , for then saith he , the indulgence would contain a falsity in it , which is , that whosoever doth such a thing , as going to the . churches , shall have plenary remission of his sins ; therefore saith he , whoever doth the thing , shall have the whole benefit of the indulgence , or else the indulgence is false . and to his experience i shall oppose , that of greater observers of the world than he hath been . i have already mentioned the testimony of vrspergensis and others concerning the effects of plenary indulgences in their times , how men encouraged themselves to sin the more because of them . polydore virgil observes , that when indulgences were grown common , many men did abstain less from doing evil actions . the author of the book called onus ecclesiae saith , that they take men off from the fruits of repentance , and are profitable only to the idle and wicked . the princes of germany in the diet of norimberg among the grievances represented to the pope , by the consent of them all ; upon the mention of indulgences reckon as the least bad consequence of them , that the people were cheated of their money by them ; but that they say was far more considerable , that true christian piety was destroyed by them ; and that all manner of wickedness did spring fr●m thence ; and that men were afraid of committing no kind of sin , when at so cheap a rate they could purchase a remission of them . but setting aside the experience of these things , let us consider what the nature of the doctrine it self tends to , to those who believe it . the least benefit we see allowed them is a freedom from enjoyned penances ; and what are these penances accounted among them , but fruits of true repentance , a severe mortification , fasting , frequent prayers and almes ? so that the short of this doctrine is , that men by indulgences are excused from doing the best parts of their religion , and if this be a way of promoting devotion i leave any one in his senses to judge . § . . i proceed now to the denying the cup to the laity , contrary to the practice of the church in the solemn celebration of the eucharist for a thousand years after christ. to which he answers . ways ( ) that the receiving in one or both kinds was ever held a matter of liberty in the church . ( ) that it was as much in the churches power to alter it after a . years , as in the first or second century . ( ) that the believing whole christ to be present in one kind tends more to excite devotion than receiving both elements without that belief . this is the substance of his answer . but i have else where at large proved , and need not repeat it here , that the institution of christ , as to both kinds , was of an universally obligatory nature , not only from the will of the first institutor , but from the universal sense of the church concerning the nature of that institution . and there i have largely answer'd those very testimonies produced by him , and shewed that they are so far from proving the use of one kind in the catholick church , that leo in that very place shewes , that it was the token of an heretick not to receive in both kinds ; and the other instance in the greek church is only of a woman in whose mouth the bread turned into a stone , that she had not patience to stay to receive the cup. so very pittyful are the proofs brought against the use of both kinds for a . years after christ , which being supposed and acknowledged by some of the most learned and ingenuous of their own church , i wonder what authority the church afterwards can have to alter , what was always looked on before as an obliging institution of christ ? might it not as well alter any other institution on the same grounds ? and wholly forbid the bread to the laity as well as the cup ; and i doe not at all question but as substantial reasons might be brought for one as the other . i had thought the gentlemen of the roman church had pretended a mighty reverence to apostolical traditions , and the practice of the catholick church , for a thousand years after christ. but it seems this signifies nothing to them , when it is contrary to their present doctrine and practice . then it makes a great noise as he saith but nothing else : thus we protestants have at last gained antiquity of our side , it is now yielded that though the church were for us , for a thousand years , yet if it now decree or act otherwise , this is enough for them . and we are contented to have christ and his apostles and all the primitive practice , for so long a time on our side ; and to leave them to enjoy the satisfaction that follows , taking the part of the church of rome against them all . but however their opinion tends more to devotion ? alas for us ! we doe not account it any piece of devotion to believe non-sense , and contradictions such as the doctrine of transubstantiation implies : we know not what devotion there can be in opposing a plain institution of christ , and not meerly in leaving the people at liberty to receive in one or both kinds , but in prohibiting the far greatest part of christians to receive as christ appointed ; we know not what devotion there can lye in worshipping a piece of bread for the son of god ; and believing that when a wafer is taken into our mouths , that god himself is personally entered under our roof . o horrible devotion and detestable superstition ! to give the same adoration to a wafer which we doe to the eternal god ; and to believe christ to goe down as personally into our bellies , as ever he went up and down when he was upon earth . § . . that which followes is , the power of a persons dispensing in oaths and marriages contrary to the law of god , which i therefore made a hindrance of the sincerity of devotion because it is apt to possess mens minds with an apprehension that religion is only a politick cheat , if any person shall be thought able to dispense with those things which are universally received among christians as the laws of god. that which i meant , was the popes taking upon him to dispense with oaths of allegiance to princes , and the incestuous marriages of some great princes . and now let any one consider what his answer signifies : he saith , that some kinds of oaths may be judged in some circumstances to be hurtful and not fit to be kept : and the dispensation in them is no more than to judge or determine them to be so : and for marriages , he addes that the church may dispense in some degrees of affinity and consanguinity , but in nothing contrary to the law of god. but this doth not at all reach to the busines ; for dispensing in this way may as well be done by a casuist as the bishop of rome ; but the question lyes here , whether those things which otherwise would be sins by the law of god , doe therefore cease to be so , because of the popes power to discharge that obligation of conscience which lay upon the person , either in oaths or marriages ? let him answer directly to this ; for the other is shuffling and not answering . as , it is granted that a subject hath an obligation of conscience upon him to obey his soveraigne by vertue of the law of god ; and the universal sense of the church hath been that there are some degrees of consanguinity and affinity which it is incest to marry within : i desire to know whether the popes power can make disobedience lawful in one case and marriage in another , which without that power were utterly unlawful ? this he could not but know was the thing meant , but not fit to be answered . § . . the last instance is , making disobedience to the church in disputable matters , more hainous than disobedience to the laws of christ in unquestionable things , as marriage in a priest to be a greater crime than fornication . to this he answers . . that the law of the church being supposed forbidding the marriage of a priest , that is no disputable matter : but it is out of question by the law of god , that obedience is to be given to the commands or prohibitions of the church . . that marriage in a priest , the prohibition of the church being supposed and a voluntary vow against it , is no better than adultery in the language of the fathers , and therefore worse than fornication . . that the state of single life is much more convenient for priests , than the married state is . this last answer is nothing at all to the purpose , for in matters of conveniency not determin'd by any law , every one is left to be his own chooser ; but the case i put , was not between a married life and single life , for we know no harm , either in one or the other of these , but every one is to judge as most tends to the comfort of his life and the ends of his calling ; which hath now far different circumstances from the apostolical times , which is a sufficient answer to the apostles words , cor. . . having a particular respect to the state of the christian church in that time of unfixedness and persecution : but the opposition was between marriage in a priest and fornication , whether the former were not by them made a greater crime than the latter , and whether this were not dishonour to the laws of christ to make the breach of a constitution of the church , in a matter left at liberty by the law of christ , a greater crime than the violation of an indisputable law of his ? and s. paul hath given a general rule which equally holds in all ages of the church , if they cannot contain let them marry , for it is better to marry than to burn . so that if s. paul may resolve the case he makes no question , that where there is but danger of fornication , marriage is so far from being a greater crime than that , that it becomes a duty to such a one . but hold , say they of the church of rome to s. paul , this is only meant of those whom the church allowes to marry , but if the church once forbid it to any they are not to marry , let their case be what it will. here then lyes the dispute between s. paul and them ; s. paul saith , to avoid fornication a man ought to marry ; they say , that to marry after the prohibition of the church is worse than fornication : s. paul might it may be ask , what authority their church had to determin contrary to what he had done in this case ; or men to make vows , against the most proper remedy of some of the infirmities of humane nature , and which god hath not promised to any to keep them from : if obedience to the church be indisputable , it is only in such things which god hath not antecedently determin'd by his own law ; but in the case between marriage and fornication god himself hath given a law before hand , which no church in the world can reverse . and however indifferent a thing in the general it be to marry or not , yet when it comes to that point , either marriage or fornication , i wonder at the confidence of any , who dare upon any account whatsoever , make marriage a greater crime than fornication . but , he saith , it seems strange to them who either cannot or will not take the word of christ , that is his counsel of chastity , that marriage in a priest should be a greater sin than fornication . it doth , i assure you seem strange to us , because we are desirous to keep the commands of christ , and we are sure marriage is against none of them , but fornication is . doth that man take christs counsel of chastity , that rather chooses to commit fornication than marry ? what admirable chastity is that ? and what a beastly institution must marriage be , if fornication be a less crime than that ? but what a reflection is this the mean while , on the author of it , and that state of innocency and purity wherein it was first appointed : they must needs think themselves very holy men , who look on that state as too impure for them , which was allotted to man in his greatest innocency . but although the first ages of the christian church were so full of hardship and difficulties , that if ever it should have been required of the governours of the church to have been above this state , it should have been at that time ; yet we find no such thing in the apostolical times or afterwards , when the necessities of affairs would most have required it . but when the christian church came to have settlement in the world , and by degrees persons were fixed with endowments to particular places , and some care of affaires of the world was necessarily joyned with those of the church ; there was far less reason to make such a prohibition of marriage to the clergy than ever was before . and the scandals were so abominable where those restraints were most in force , that on that very account the wisest men ( though as fond as any of the churches authority ) thought there was more reason to give liberty to priests to marry , than ever there had been to restrain them from it . i am not bound to defend all the extravagant and indiscreet passages which fell from some of the fathers concerning marriage ; but i am sure the church preserved her liberty in it notwithstanding them , as i might easily prove if it were suitable to my present designe . and s. cyprian speaking of those virgins , who came nearest to vows of virginity as rigaltius observes , saith , that it were better for them to marry , than to fall into bell by their sins , when they either will not or cannot keep their promise ; the same thing is said by s. augustin , by epiphanius , by the author of the epistle ad demetriadem as bishop iewel hath long since proved ; and need not here be repeated . two things he objects to prove marriage worse than fornication after a vow of continency ; one from the authority of s. paul , who saith the younger widdows that marry after the dedicating themselves to the service of the church , doe incurre damnation , because by so doing they made void their first faith , i. e. as the fathers expound it , the vow they had made . but doth he really think , that they did not break their first faith and incurre damnation by fornication as well as by marrying ? if they did , how can this prove marriage worse than fornication ? i grant , that by their first faith hath been understood the promise made to the church , and who denies the breach of promise to be a bad and scandalous thing , which is that s. paul means by damnation ; and is not fornication much more so , where a thing in it self evil is committed besides the breach of the promise ? can any one think that is not more waxing wanton against christ , than meer marrying is ? therefore s. paul would have the younger women to marry and not make any such promises ; which they would be in danger of breaking ; he would have none admitted into the condition of church-widdowes but those that were . years of ages , and so in reason to be supposed passed the temptations to fornication . whereby he shews what rule ought to be observed in all such promises , and that none ought to be brought under them , but such as are to be supposed past the common temptations of humane nature in those things . but his second authority is more to his purpose , ( if it were good for any thing , ) which is the . cannon of the . council of carthage as it is called ; but he might have found in iustellus his preface to the codex canonum ecclesiae africanae ; that this . council of carthage is of no authority at all ; and we need not be concerned for any canon contained therein , which is not in the code of the african church as this is not ; but seems taken out of some decretals of the popes , as will appear by comparing the . canon in the collection of cresconius with the . of this council . and it would be very strange if s. augustin were present in this council , that he should herein oppose what he had said elsewhere ; for he determins , that the marrying again of the widdows that had vowed continuance in that state was no adultery , but a lawful marriage ; and that husband and wife ought not to be separated from each other upon such marriages , and by that means make the husbands truely adulterers , when they separate from them and marry other wives : and therefore , saith he , that which the apostle condemns in them , is not so much their marrying as their will to marry whether they doe or no , whereby they break their first faith , so that it is not marriage but lust which the apostle condemns ; from whence it appears that s. austin could never , if he spake consonantly to himself , condemn marriage after a vow of continency to be worse than fornication . indeed , he saith , that this falling from that holy chastity which was vowed to god , may in some sense be said to be worse than adultery ; but he never imagined such a construction could be made of his words , as though the act of fornication were not a greater falling from it , than meer marriage could be . so much shall suffice for the instances produced in the roman church , of such things which tend to obstruct a good life and devotion . § . . the . argument i used to prove the danger a person runs of his salvation in the communion of the roman church , was because it exposeth the faith of christians to so great uncertainties ; which he looks on as a strange charge from the pen of a protestant . as strange as it is , i have at large proved it true in a full examination of the whole controversie of the resolution of faith between us and them ; to which i expect a particular answer before this charge be renewed again . to which i must refer him for the main proof of it , and shall here subjoyn only short replyes to his answers ; or references to what is fully answered already . . his distinction of the authority of the scripture in it self and to us , signifies nothing ; for when we enquire into the proofs of the authority of scripture , it can be understood no otherwise than in respect to us ; and if the scriptures authority as to us is to be proved by the church , and the churches authority as to us to be provved by the scripture , the difficulty is not in the least avoided by that distinction . and as little to the purpose is the other , that it is only an argument ad hominem , to prove the infallibility of the church from scriptures , for i would fain know upon what other grounds they build their own belief of the churches infallibility than on the promises of christ in the scripture ? these are miserable evasions and nothing else . for the trite saying of s. austin , that he would not believe the gospel , &c. i have at large proved that the meaning of it is no more than that the testimony of the vniversal church from the apostles times is the best way to prove the particular books of scripture , to be authentical and cannot be understood of the infallibility of the present church ; and that the testimony of some few persons as the manichees were was not to be taken in opposition to the whole christian church . which is a thing we as much contend for as they ; but is far enough from making the infallibility of our faith , to depend on the authority of the present church ; which we say is the way to overthrow all certainty of faith to any considering man. . to that of overthrowing the certainty of sense in the doctrine of transubstantiation ; he saith , that divine revelation ought to be believed against the evidence of sense . to which i answer ( . ) that divine revelation in matters not capable of being judged by our senses , is to be believed notwithstanding any argument can be drawn from sensible experiments against it ; as in the belief of god , the doctrine of the trinity , the future state of the soul , &c. ( . ) that in the proper objects of sense to suppose a revelation contrary to the evidence of sense , is to overthrow all certainty of faith where the matters to be believed depend upon matters of fact . as for instance , the truth of the whole christian doctrine depends upon the truth of christs resurrection from the dead : if sense be not here to be believed in a proper object of it , what assurance can we have that the apostles were not deceived , when they said they saw christ after he was risen ? if it be said there was no revelation against sense in that case : that doth not take off the difficulty , for the reason why i am to believe revelation at any time against sense must be , because sense may be deceived , but revelation cannot ; but if i yield to that principle that sense may be deceived in its most proper object , we can have no infallible certainty by sense at all , and consequently not in that point , that christ is risen from the dead . if it be said , that sense cannot be deceived , where there is no revelation against it : i desire to know how it comes to be deceived supposing a revelation contrary to it ? doth god impose upon our senses at that time ? then he plainly deceives us ; is it by telling us we ought to believe more than we see ? that we deny not : but we desire only to believe according to our senses in what we doe see ; as what we see to be bread , that is bread ; that what the apostles saw to be the body of christ was the body of christ really , and substantially , and not meerly the accidents of a body . besides , if revelation is to be believed against sense ; then either that revelation is conveyed immediately to our minds , which is to make every one a prophet that believes transubstantiation ; or mediately by our senses , as in those words this is my body : if so , than i am to believe this revelation by my senses , and believing this revelation , i am not to believe my senses : which is an excellent way of making faith certain . all this on supposition there were a revelation in this case , which is not only false , but if it were true would overthrow the certainty of faith . . to that i objected , as to their denying to men the use of their judgement and reason as to the matters of faith proposed by a church , when they must use it in the choice of a church ; he answers , that this cannot expose faith to any uncertainty , because it is only preferring the churches judgement before our own : but he doth not seem to understand the force of my objection which lay in this . every one must use his own judgement and reason in the choice of the church he is to rely upon ; is he certain in this or not ? if he be uncertain , all that he receives on the authority of that church must be uncertain too : if the use of reason be certain , then how comes the authority of a church to be a necessary means of certainty in matters of faith ? and they who condemn the use of a mans reason and judgement in religion must overthrow all certainty on their own grounds , since the choice of his infallible guide must depend upon it . now he understands my argument better , he may know better how to answer it : but i assure him i meant no such thing by the use of reason , as he supposes i would have , which is to believe nothing , but what my reason can comprehend ; for i believe an infinite being , and all the doctrines revealed by it in holy scriptures , although i cannot reconcile all particulars concerning them to those conceptions we call reason . but therefore to argue against the use of mens judgements in matters of faith , and the grounds of believing , is to dispute against that , which all wise men ever did , and will do to the worlds end . . i proved they made faith uncertain , by making the churches power to extend to the making new articles of faith . this he grants to be to the purpose , if it were true : but he saith , the church never owned any such power in her general councils , ( which doth not hinder but that the heads of their church have pretended to it and in case it be disputable among them , whether the pope be not infallible , that unavoidably leaves faith at uncertainties . ) yet he yields what i contend for , which is , that it is in the churches power to make that necessary to be believed which was not so before : for whether it be by inventing new articles , or declaring more explicitely the truths not contained in scripture and tradition ; it is all one to my purpose , as long as men might be saved without believing them before and cannot afterwards ; which is to make the conditions of salvation mutable according to the pleasure of the church ; which is the greatest inconveniency of inventing new doctrines . . i shewed , they made faith uncertain by pretending to infallibility in determining controversies , and yet not using it to determine those which are on foot among themselves . the force of the argument did not lye in this as he imagines , as though faith could not be certain , unless all controversies were determined , which was far from my thoughts , but that pretending there can be no faith without infallibility in their church to end controversies , they should give such great occasion to suspect that they did not believe themselves by imploying that infallibility in ending the great controversies among themselves ; of which i have spoken already , and to this he gives no answer at all . thus much in vindication of the third argument , i made use of to prove , that all those who are in the communion of the roman church , do run so great a hazard of their salvation , that none who have a care of their souls ought to embrace or continue in it . § . . i now come to the third answer to the first question , which was , that a protestant leaving the communion of our church , doth incurre a greater guilt , than one who was bred up in the communion of the church of rome , and continues therein by invincible ignorance , and therefore cannot equally be saved with such a one . three things he objects against this answer . . that this makes them both damned , though unequally , because the converted catholick more deeply than he that was bred so . . that this reflects as much upon st. austin as them , who rejected the communion of the manichees , and embraced that of the church of rome upon their grounds . . that it is contrary to our distinction of points fundamental and not fundamental . to which i reply : . that the design of my answer was not to pass the sentence of damnation on all who dye in the communion of the roman church ; but to shew that they who forsook a better church for it do incurre greater guils , than those who are alwayes bred up in it and live and dye in the belief of its being the true church , and therefore are not in an equal capacity of salvation with them . i shall make my meaning more plain by a parallel instance or two ; many in the church of rome have asserted the possibility of the salvation of heathens ( though some bigots have denyed it to protestants ) suppose this question were put concerning two persons : whether a christian having the same motives to become a heathen , which one bred and born and well grounded in heathenism hath to remain in it , may not equally be saved in the profession of it ? and a third person should answer , that a christian leaving the communion of the christian church doth incurre a greater guilt , than one who was bred up in heathenism and continues therein by invincible ignorance : doth this answer imply that they must both be damned though equally ? or rather doth it not yield a greater possibility of salvation to one than to the other ? or suppose , ( to come nearer our case ) the question were put , concerning one that revolted from the church of iudah to the ten tribes , ( which were guilty of idolatry , though not of the highest kind , ) whether he were equally capable of salvation with one who was bred up in the communion of the church of israel all his dayes ? i should make no question to pronounce his condition more dangerous than the other ; & yet not therein damn them both , but only imply that it was much harder for to escape than the other . for he that was bred up in the church of israel , believing it was the true god he served , and in a right manner , and looking on the church of iudah as a schismatical church , and seeing the greater number of tribes on their side , and wanting that instruction which was in the church of iudah , might in the sincerity of his heart serve god in a false way , and pray to him to pardon all his errours and corruptions , and have a general repentance of all sins , though not particularly convinced of the idolatry of the ten tribes , i dare not say , but god will accept of such a one that thus fears god and works righteousness in the simplicity of his heart : but i cannot say the same of one who revolts from iudah , where the true god was worshipped in a true manner , where he had sufficient means of instruction , and either wilful ignorance , or temporal ends , or unreasonable prejudices makes him deliberately choose a worse and more impure church before a better , for that very sin makes his case much more dangerous than the other . our business is not to enquire into the salvation or damnation of any particular persons ; for that depends upon so many circumstances as to the aggravation or extenuation of their faults , the nature and sincerity of their repentance , the integrity and simplicity of their minds ; which none but god himself can know : but to find out the truest way to salvation , and to reject whatever church requires that which is in it self sinful ; for though god may pardon those who live in it in the simplicity of their minds , yet their hopes lying in their ignorance and repentance , none who have a care of their souls dare venture themselves in so hazardous a state . setting aside then the consideration of the danger common to both , i say the case of a revolter from us to the church of rome is much worse than of one who was alwayes bred up in it , because he might far more easily understand the danger he runs into , and wilfull ignorance only keeps him from it , and he doth upon deliberation choose a state of infinite hazard before one of the greatest safety . . this doth not reflect on st. austin or the church in his time , which was as far different from theirs as the churches of iudah and israel were from each other : neither can it destroy the distinction of fundamentals and not fundamentals , for the possibility of salvation allowed to any in their church is built upon the supposition that they have all that is fundamentally necessary in order to it , though there are many dangerous errours and corruptions in that church whose communion they live in . § . . the answers to the first question being thus vindicated ; there remains little to be added concerning the second . for he tells me , that he agrees so far with me , that every christian is bound to choose the communion of the purest church . but which that church is must be seen by the grounds it brings to prove the doctrines it teaches , to have been delivered by christ and his apostles . and to be even with him , i thus far agree with him in the way of proof of a churches purity , viz. by agreement with the doctrine of christ and his apostles ; and that that church is to be judged purest which shews the greatest evidence of that consent ; and that every one is bound to enquire which church hath the strongest motives for it and to embrace the communion of it . being thus far agreed , i must now enquire into what motives he offers on behalf of their church ; and what method he prescribes for delivering ours . for the former , he produces a large catalogue of catholick motives ( as he calls them ) in the words of dr. taylour , liberty of prophecy , sect. . and i do not know a better way of answering them , than in the words of the same eminent and learned person , which he uses upon a like occasion to his demonstrating friend i. s. but now in my conscience , ( saith the bishop ) this was unkindly done , that when i had spoken for them what i could , and more than i knew they had ever said for themselves , and yet to save them harmless from the iron hands of a tyrant and unreasonable power , to keep them from being persecuted for their errours and opinions , that they should take the arms i had lent them for their defence , and throw them at my head . but the best of it is , though i. s. be unthankful , yet the weapons themselves are but wooden daggers , intended only to represent how the poor men are couzened by themselves , and that under fair and fraudulent pretences even pious well meaning men , men wise enough in other things may be abused . and though what i said , was but tinsel and pretence , imagery and whipt cream , yet i could not be blamed to use no better than the best their cause could bear : yet if that be the best they have to say for themselves , their probabilities will be soon out-ballanced by one scripture-testimony urged by protestants , and thou shalt not worship any graven images will out-weigh all the best and fairest imaginations of their church . — but then i. s. might , if he had pleased , have considered , that i did not intend to make that harangue to represent that the roman religion had probabilities of being true , but probabilities that the religion might be tolerated , or might be endured : and if i was deceived it was but a well meant errour , hereafter they shall speak for themselves , only for their comfort , this they might have also observed in that book , that there is not half so much excuse for the papists , as there is for the anabaptists , and yet it was but an excuse at the best . but since from me , saith he , they borrow their light armour , which is not pistol-proof ; from me if they please they may borrow a remedy to undeceive them , and that in the same kind and way of arguing ; for which he referrs to a letter written by him to a gentlewoman seduced to the church of rome ; out of which i shall transcribe so much as may over-ballance the probabilities produced elsewhere by him . after directions given rather to enquire what her religion is than what her church is , for that which is a true religion to day , will be so to morrow and for ever , but that which is a holy church to day , may be heretical at the next change , or may betray her trust , or obtrude new articles in contradiction to the old , &c. and shewing the unreasonablness of believing the roman to be the catholick church ; he descends thus to particulars . you are now gone to a church that protects it self by arts of subtlety and arms , by violence and persecuting all that are not of their minds : to a church in which you are to be a subject of the king so long as it pleases the pope : in which you may be absolved from your vows made to god , your oaths to the king , your promises to men , your duty to your parents in some cases : a church in which men pray to god and to saints in the same form of words in which they pray to god , as you may see in the offices of saints , and particularly of our lady ; a church in which men are taught by most of the principal leaders to worship images with the same worship with which they worship god or christ , or him or her , whose image it is , and in which they usually picture god the father and the holy trinity to the great dishonour of that sacred mystery , against the doctrine and practice of the primitive church , against the express doctrine of scripture , against the honour of , a divine attribute ; i mean the immensity and spirituality of the divine nature : you are gone to a church that pretends to be infallible , and yet is infinitely deceived in many particulars , and yet endures no contradiction , and is impatient her children should enquire into any thing her priests obtrude . you are gone from receiving the whole sacrament to receive it but half , from christs institution to a human invention , from scripture to uncertain traditions , and from ancient tradition to new pretences , from prayers which ye understood to prayers which ye understand not , from confidence in god to rely upon creatures , from intire dependance upon inward-acts , to a dangerous temptation of resting too much in outward ministeries in the external work of sacraments and sacramentals . you are gone from a church whose worshipping is simple , christian and apostolical , to a church where mens consciences are loaden with a burden of ceremonies , greater than that in the dayes of the jewish religion ( for the ceremonial of the church of rome is a great book in folio . ) you are gone from a church where you were exhorted to read the word of god , the holy scriptures , from whence you sound instruction , institution , comfort , reproof , a treasure of all excellencies , to a church that seals up that fountain from you , and gives you drink by drops out of such cisterns as they first make and then stain and then reach out : and if it be told you , that some men abuse scripture , it is true , for if your priests had not abused scripture , they could not thus have abused you ; but there is no necessity they should , and you need not unless you list ; any more than you need to abuse the sacrament or decrees of the church , or the messages of your friend , or the letters you receive , or the laws of the land , all which are lyable to be abused by evil persons , but not by good people and modest understandings . it is now become a part of your religion to be ignorant , to walk in blindness , to believe the man that hears your confessions , to hear none but him , not to hear god speaking but by him , and so you are lyable to be abused by him , as he please , without remedy . you are gone from us , where you are only taught to worship god through jesus christ , and now you are taught to worship saints and angels , with a worship at least dangerous and in some things proper to god ; for your church worships the v. mary with burning incense and candles to her , and you give her presents which by the consent of all nations used to be esteemed a worship peculiar to god , and it is the same thing which was condemned in the collyridians , who offered a cake to the v. mary . a candle and a cake make no difference in the worship ; and your joyning god and the saints is like the device of them that fought for king and parliament , the latter destroys the former . to which he subjoynes , that the points of difference between us and the church of rome , are such as do evidently serve the ends of covetousness and ambition in them : and that very many of her doctrines are very ill friends to a good life , and that our religion is incomparably beyond theirs in point of safety : as in point of praying to god alone and without images , relying on god as infallible , which are surely lawful ; but it is at least hugely disputable and not at all certain that any man or society of men can be infallible , that we may put our trust in saints , or worship images , &c. from whence he concludes ; so that unless you mean to preferr a danger before safety , temptation to unholiness before a severe and holy religion , unless you mean to lose the benefit of yours prayers by praying what you perceive not , and the benefit of the sacrament in great degrees by falling from christs institution , and taking half instead of all ; unless you desire to provoke god to jealousie by images , and man to jealousie in professing a religion in which you may in many cases have leave to forfeit your faith and lawful trust ; unless you will choose a catechism without the second commandment , and a faith that grows bigger or lesser as men please , and a hope that in many degrees relyes on men and vain confidences , and a charity that damns all the world but your selves , unless you will do all this , that is , suffer an abuse in your prayers , in the sacrament , in the commandments , in faith , in hope , in charity , in the communion of saints , and your duty to your supream , you must return to the bosome of your mother the church of england , and i doubt not but you will find the comfort of it in all your life , and in the day of your death , and in the day of judgement . thus far that excellent person , and i leave you now to judge between the motives on both sides , as they are laid down by him whom my adversary appeals to , and i must thank him for the kindness of mentioning him against me , without which i had wanted so good a representation of the motives of either side , and so full an answer to the pretences brought for the church of rome . the other motives which he adds of fathers , councils and tradition , he knows are utterly denyed by us ; and i wonder he should insist upon them , since in the matters of our debate , antiquity is so evidently of our side , as against worship of images and saints , against purgatory , transubstantiation , prayers in an unknown tongue , and he thinks it no great matter to allow us a thousand years against communion in one kind ; and yet all this while scripture , fathers , councils , and tradition are all on their side . for the testimony of the present church ; we deny that s. austin speaks of it as of it self sufficient ; and though he did , that concerns not the roman church any more than other parts of the catholick church ; and he may assoon prove tyber to be the ocean , or s. peters at rome to have been before the temple at hierusalem , as prove the roman church to be the catholick church , or the mother of all others . § . . but i must conclude , with the method he prescribes to you for satisfaction from me ; which is not to meddle with particular disputes , ( which we know very well the reason of ) but to call upon me for a catalogue of our grounds , and to bring things to grounds and principles ( as they have learnt to cant of late ) and then , he saith , controversie will soon be at an end . i should be glad to see it so ; notwithstanding his friend i. s. accounts it so noble a science , unless he hath changed his mind , since for so many years now , he hath failed in the defence of his demonstrations . but to satisfie the men of principles , and to let them see we can do more than find fault with their religion , i shall give an account of the faith of protestants in the way of principles ; and of the reason of our rejecting their impositions , which is all we can understand by negative points ; and if we can give an account of the christian faith independently on their churches authority and infallibility it evidently follows that cannot be the foundation of faith ; and so we may be very good christians without having any thing to do with the church of rome . and i know no other answer necessary , not only to this present demand , but to a book called protestants without principles , the falsity of which will appear by what follows . principles agreed on both sides . . that there is a god from whom man , and all other creatures had their being . . that the notion of god doth imply that he is a being absolutely perfect , and therefore justice , goodness , wisdom , and truth must be in him to the highest degree of perfection . . that man receiving his being from god , is thereby bound to obey his will , and consequently is lyable to punishment in case of disobedience . . that in order to mans obeying the will of god , it is necessary that he know what it is ; for which some manifestation of the will of god is necessary , both that man may know what he hath to do , and that god may justly punish him if he do it not . . whatever god reveals to man is infallibly true , and being intended for the rule of mans obedience may be certainly known to be his will. . god cannot act contrary to those essential attributes of justice , wisdom , goodness and truth in any way which he makes choice of , to make known his will unto man by . these thing being agreed on both sides , we are now to inquire into the particular wayes which god hath made choice of for revealing his will to mankind . . an entire obedience to the will of god being agreed , to be the condition of mans happiness no other way of revelation is in it self necessary , to that end , than such whereby man may know what the will of god is . . man being framed a rational creature , capable of reflecting upon himself , may antecedently to any external revelation , certainly know the being of god , and his dependence upon him ; and those things which are naturally pleasing unto him , else there could be no such thing as a law of nature , or any principles of natural religion . . all supernatural and external revelation , must suppose the truth of natural religion ; for unless we be antecedently certain that there is a god , and that we are capable of knowing him , it is impossible to be certain that god hath revealed his will to us by any supernatural means . . nothing ought to be admitted for divine revelation which overthrows the certainty of those principles which must be antecedently supposed to all divine revelation . for that were to overthrow the means whereby we are to judge concerning the truth of any divine revelation . . there can be no other means imagined , whereby we are to judge of the truth of divine revelation , but a faculty in us of discerning truth and falshood in matters proposed to our belief , which if we do not exercise in judging the truth of divine revelation , we must be imposed upon by every thing which pretends to be so . . the pretence of infallibility in any person or society of men , must be judged in the same way , that the truth of a divine revelation is , for that infallibility being challenged by vertue of a supernatural assistance , and for that end to assure men what the will of god is , the same means must be used for the trial of that , as for any other supernatural way of gods making known his will to men . . it being in the power of god to make choice of several wayes of revealing his will to us , we ought not to dispute from the attributes of god the necessity of one particular way to the exclusion of all others , but we ought to enquire what way god himself hath chosen : and whatever he hath done , we are sure cannot be repugnant to infinite justice , wisdome , goodness , and truth . . whatever way is capable of certainly conveying the will of god to us , may be made choice of by him for the means of making known his will in order to the happiness of mankind ; so that no argument can be sufficient a priori to prove , that god cannot choose any particular way to reveal his mind by , but such which evidently proves the insufficiency of that means for conveying the will of god to us . . there are several wayes conceivable by us , how god may make known his will to us , either by immediate voice from heaven , or inward inspiration to every particular person ; or inspiring some to speak personally to others , or assisting them with an infallible spirit in writing such books , which shall contain the will of god for the benefit of distant persons and future ages . . if the will of god cannot be sufficiently declared to men by writing , it must either be because no writing can be intelligible enough for that end , or that it can never be known to be written by men infallibly assisted ; the former is repugnant to common sense , for words are equally capable of being understood , spoken , or written , the latter overthrows the possibility of the scriptures being known to be the word of god. . it is agreed among all christians that although god in the first ages of the world did reveal his mind to men immediately by a voice or secret inspirations , yet afterwards he did communicate his mind to some immediately inspired to write his will in books to be preserved for the benefit of future ages , and particularly that these books of the new testament which we now receive were so written by the apostles and disciples of jesus christ. . such writings having been received by the christian church of the first ages as divine and infallible , and being delivered down as such to us by an universal consent of all ages since , they ought to be owned by us as the certain rule of faith ; whereby we are to judge what the will of god is in order to our salvation , unless it appear with an evidence equal to that whereby we believe those books to be the word of god , that they were never intended for that end , because of their obscurity or imperfection . . although we cannot argue against any particular way of revelation from the necessary attributes of god , yet such a way as writing being made choice of by him , we may justly say , that it is repugnant to the nature of the design , and the wisdom and goodness of god to give infallible assurance to persons in writing his will , for the benefit of mankind , if those writings may not be understood by all persons who sincerely endeavour to know the meaning of them in all such things as are necessary for their salvation . . to suppose the books so written to be imperfect , i. e. that any things necessary to be believed or practised are not contained in them , is either to charge the first author of them with fraud , and not delivering his whole mind , or the writers with insincerity in not setting it down , and the whole christian church of the first ages with folly , in believing the fulness and prefection of the scriptures in order to salvation . . these writings being owned as containing in them the whole will of god so plainly revealed , that no sober enquirer can miss of what is necessary for salvation ; there can be no necessity supposed of any infallible society of men either to attest or explain these writings among christians , any more than there was for some ages before christ of such a body of men among the iews , to attest or explain to them the writings of moses or the prophets . . there can be no more intolerable usurpation upon the faith of christians , than for any person or society of men to pretend to an assistance , as infallible in what they propose as was in christ or his apostles , without giving an equal degree of evidence , that they are so assisted as christ and his apostles did , viz. by miracles as great , publick , and convincing as theirs were , by which i mean , such as are wrought by those very persons who challeng this infallibility , and with a design for the conviction of those who doe not believe it . . nothing can be more absurd than to pretend the necessity of such an infallible commission and assistance to assure us of the truth of these writings , and to interpret them , and at the same time to prove that commission from those writings , from which we are told nothing can be certainly deduced , such an assistance not being supposed ; or to pretend that infallibility in a body of men , is not as lyable to doubts and disputes as in those books from whence only they derive their infallibility . . there can be no hazard to any person in mistaking the meaning of any particular place in those books , supposing he use , the best means for understanding them , comparable to that which every one runs , who believes any person or society of men to be infallible who are not : for in this latter he runs unavoidably into one great errour , and by that may be led into a thousand , but in the former god hath promised either he shall not erre , or he shall not be damned for it . . the assistance which god hath promised to those who sincerely desire to know his will , may give them greater assurance of the truth of what is contained in the bookes of scripture , than it is possible for the greatest infallibility in any other persons to doe , supposing they have not such assurance of their infallibility . . no mans faith can therefore be infallible meerly because the proponent is said to be infallible ; because the nature of assent doth not depend upon the objective infallibility of any thing without us , but is agreeable to the evidence we have of it in our minds ; for assent is not built on the nature of things but their evidence to us . . it is therefore necessary in order to an infallible assent , that every particular person be infallibly assisted in judging of the matters proposed to him to be believed , so that the ground on which a necessity of some external infallible proponent is asserted , must rather make every particular person infallible , if no divine faith can be without an infallible assent , and so renders any other infallibility useless . . if no particular person be infallible in the assent he gives to matters proposed by others to him , then no man can be infallibly sure that the church is infallible ; and so the churches infallibility can signifie nothing to our infallible assurance without an equal infallibility in our selves in the belief of it . . the infallibility of every particular person being not asserted by those , who plead for the infallibility of a church , and the one rendring the other useless ( for if every person be infallible , what need any representative church to be so ) and the infallibility of a church being of no effect , if every person be not infallible in the belief of it , we are farther to inquire what certainty men may have in matters of faith , supposing no external proponent to be infallible . . there are different degrees of certainty to be attained according to the different degrees of evidence , and measure of divine assistance ; but every christian by the use of his reason , and common helps of grace may attain to so great a degree of certainty , from the convincing arguments of the christian religion and authority of the scriptures , that on the same grounds on which men doubt of the truth of them , they may as well doubt of the truth of those things which they judge to be most evident to sense or reason . . no man who firmly assents to any thing as true , can at the same time entertaine any suspition of the falshood of it , for that were to make him certain and uncertain of the same thing : it is therefore absurd to say , that those who are certain of what they believe , may at the same time not know but it may be false , which is an apparent contradiction and overthrowes any faculty in us of judging of truth or falshood . . whatever necessarily proves a thing to be true , doth at the same time prove it impossible to be false ; because it is impossible the same thing should be true and false at the same time . therefore they who assent firmly to the doctrine of the gospel as true , doe thereby declare their belief of the impossibility of the falshood of it . . the nature of certainty doth receive several names , either according to the nature of the proof or the degrees of the assent . thus moral certainty may be so called , either as it is opposed to mathematical evidence , but implying a firme assent upon the highest evidence , that moral things can receive : or as it is opposed to a higher degree of certainty in the same kind ; so moral certainty implies only greater probabilities of one side than the other ; in the former sense we assert the certainty of christian faith to be moral , but not only in the latter . . a christian being thus certain to the highest degree of a firme assent that the scriptures are the word of god , his faith is thereby resolved into the scriptures as into the rule and measure of what he is to believe , as it is into the veracity of god as the ground of his believing what is therein contained . . no christian can be obliged under any pretence of infallibility to believe any thing as a matter of faith , but what was revealed by god himself in that book wherein he believes his will to be contained , and consequently is bound to reject whatsoever is offered to be imposed upon his faith , which hath no foundation in scripture , or is contrary thereto ; which rejection is no making negative articles of faith , but only applying the general grounds of faith to particular instances , as because i believe nothing necessary to salvation , but what is contained in scripture , therefore no such particular things which neither are there nor can be deduced thence . . there can be no better way to prevent mens mistakes in the sense of scripture , ( which men being fallible are subject to ) than the considering the consequence of mistaking in a matter wherein their salvation is concerned : and there can be no sufficient reason given why that may not serve in matters of faith , which god himself hath made use of , as the means to keep men from sin in their lives : unless any imagine that errours in opinion are far more dangerous to mens souls , than a vitious life is , and therefore god is bound to take more care to prevent the one than the other . it followeth that , . there is no necessity at all , or use of an infallible society of men to assure men of the truth of those things , which they may be certain without , and cannot have any greater assurance , supposing such infallibility to be in them . . the infallibility of that society of men , who call themselves the catholick church , must be examined by the same faculties in man , the same rules of tryal , the same motives by which the infallibility of any divine revelation is . . the less convincing the miracles , the more doubtful the marks , the more obscure the sense of either what is called the catholick church or declared by it , the less reason hath any christian to believe upon the account of any who call themselves by the name of the catholick church . . the more absurd any opinions are and repugnant to the first principles of sense and reason , which any church obtrudes upon the faith of men , the greater reason men still have to reject the pretence of infallibility in that church as a grand imposture . . to disown what is so taught by such a church , is not to question the veracity of god , but so firmly to adhere to that , in what he hath revealed in scriptures , that men dare not out of love to their souls reject what is so taught . . though nothing were to be believed as the will of god , but what is by the catholick church declared to be so , yet this doth not at all concern the church of rome , which neither is the catholick church , nor any sound part or member of it . this may suffice to shew the validity of the principles on which the faith of protestants stands , and the weakness of those of the church of rome . from all which it followes , that it can be nothing but willful ignorance , weakness of judgement , strength of prejudice , or some sinful passion , which makes any one forsake the communion of the church of england , to embrace that of the church of rome . the end. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e §. . the necessity of writing in these controversies . §. . the present arts used by our adversaries to gain proselyter . §. . the occasion of this present writing . §. . of the manner and design of the writing . §. . of the charge of idolatry against the church of rome . articl . . homil. part● . p. . dr. iackson original of unbelief , sect. . ch. . defence of the apology , ch . . div . . p. . answer to harding , . articl . p. . art. . p. . p. . defence of the answer to the admonition , tr . . p. . bish. bilson dis● . of christian subjection , part . . p. . p. . p. . p. , &c. dr. fulks confutation of an idolatrous treatise of nicol. sanders . dr. reynolds de idolat . eccles. rom. dr. whitaker c. duraeum , l. . p. . k. iames his works , p. . is , casaub. ep. ad cardin . perron , ad quartam instant . ad tort● librum respons . p. . answer to perron . chapt . p. . bish. abbor against bishop , tom. . p. . whites reply to fisher. p. . dr. field of the church , l. . ch . . p. . bish. ushers sermon before the commons , p. . downam de antichristo . l. . c. , , &c. davenant . deter . quaest . . d. iacksons original of unbelief , sect . . archbish. lauds conference , p. . bell. de sanct . beat . l. . c. . notes for div a -e ep. . ad marcellam . li. de bapt. cont . donat. c. . tract . . in to. sozomen . li. & hist. c. . & niceph. li. . c. . s. leo ser. . de quad. li. contr . epist. fund . notes for div a -e the introduction . of the idolatry of the roman church . of the worship of images . of the meaning of the second commandment . of the reason of the second commandment . isa. . . . . . of the wiser heathens notion of images . theodoret. c. graec. serm. . p. . clem. alexand . strom. . p. . isa. . , . clem. alexand . protrept . p. . strom. . p. . plutarch in numâ . varro apud augustin . de civit. dei l. . c . philo de legat . ad caium p. . eus●bius de prepar . evang. l. . c. . herodot . l . strabo l . diog. laert. prooem . tacit. de morib . german . c. . lucian . de dea syria . init . the reason of this law more clear by the gospel . john . , . morinus in pentatench . samarit . exerc. . s. . c. . act. . 〈◊〉 , . . rom. . . . . v. . . celsus apud origen . l. . p. . euseb. de preparat . evang. l. . c . athanas. c. gent. p. . — . arnob. c. gent. l. . p. . august . tom. . in psal. . maxim. tyrius dissert . . iulian. op . frag . ep . ed. peravii p. . eus●b . prepar . evang. l. . c. . trirant . de christian. expedit . apud sinas , l. . c. . p. . the christian church believed this law immutable . clem. alex. strom. . p. . origen c. cels l. . p. . l. p. . synod . nic. . act. . ep. ad iohan. synad . ad thom. claudiop . ep. ibid. damascen . orthod . sid . l. c. . bellarm. de imag. l. . cap. . of the doctrine of the second council of nice . synod . nicaen . . act. . aquinas summ. p. . q. . art . . vasquez in l. . q. . disp . . c. . sirmond . concil . gall. to. . p. . spelman . con● . tom. . p. . hovedeni annal. p. prior . ad a. d : simeon dunel histor. p. . matth. westmon . ad a. d. . caroli capitut . de non adora●dis imagi●ibus . paris . a. d. . & in goldasti . co●stit . imperial . to. . synod . paris . in supplement . concil . gall. ad a. d. . agobardi opera ed. massoni & balazii . caroli liber de imag. l. . c. . cap. . c. . l. . c. . concil . tom. . p. . tom. . p. . c. . delaland supplem . concil . gall. p. . bellarm. append. ad . lib. de cultu imag. c. . c. . agobardi opera p. . ed. . of the scripture instances of idolatry contrary to the second commandment . p●tav . dogmat . theol. to . l . ● . . s. . c. s. . vas● e● in . thom. disp . . q. . c. . of the distinctions used to excuse this from being idola●ry . aug. c. duas epist pe●ag . l. c. . b. andrews answer to perron p. be●●arm . de imag . l. . ●● . vasquez . . th. disp . . q. . art . . c. . the instances supposed to be parallel answered . notes for div a -e of the adoration of the host. concil trident . sess. . c. . the state of the controversie . joh. . . rubrick after communion . concil . t●● dent . 〈◊〉 c. . no security in the roman church aga●nst idolatry in adoration of the host. greg. de val. de idolol . l. . c. . bell. de sacr. euchar . l. . c. . de incarnat . l. . c. . vasquez . tom. . disp . . c. n. . disput. . c. , . no such motives to believe transubstantiation as the divinity of christ. bellar. de sacr. euch. l. . c. . de christo l. . c. . a mistake doth not excuse from idolatry . coster . enchir contr. c. . de euch. sacram . p. . fisher c. oecolompad . l. . c. . p. ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ) . b. taylors second part of disswasive introduct . in answ. to i s. . way . . part of diss●as . b. . s. . p. . ductor dubitant . b. . c. . p. . p. . the grossest idolatry excusable on the same grounds . aug. prefat . in psal. . to. . p. . p. . aug. c. faust manich. l. . c. . . garcilasso de la vega le conmentaire royal. liv . . c. . of invocation of saints . the fathers arguments against heathen idolatry condemn invocation of saints . iustin. martyr apol. . p. , . theophil . ad autolyc . l. . p. . l. a. p. . breviar . rom. . iul. antw. . s. basil. ad amphiloch . p. . v. aug. c. faust. l . c. . baron . martycol . apr. & iulii . all divine worship given to a cre●ture condemned by the fathers . origen . c. c●ls . l. . p. . p. . l. . p. . p. . i. p . p. . p. . serrar . litan . q. . p. . ambros. in . rom. to. . p. . aug. de civit. dei. l. . c. . . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . the worship of angels condemned . col. . . theod. in coloss . . baron . an. . s. , . iren. l. . c. . orig. c. cels. l. . p. . p. . con●il . laodic . can. . aug. de civit . dei. l. . c. . aug. q. in exod. q. . the common evasions answered . aug. de civit . dei. l. . c. . l. . c. . c. . gen. . . . . isa. . . psal. . . . bell. de sanct. beat . l. . c. . aug. de civit. dei. l. . c. . of the practice of invocation in the church of roms . brev. rom. antw. . p . p. . offic. parv . b. mariae . p. . brev. p. . commun . apostol . p. . . bell. de sanct. beatit . l. . c. . the difference between praying to saints in heaven , and desiring men on earth to pray for us . a●●s . , . acts . , . st. austin no friend to invocation of saints . aug. de civit. dei , l. . c. . l. . . . aug. de bapt . c. don. l. . c. . c. faust. l. . c. . calv. instit. l. . c. . n. . bell. de beatit . sanct . l. . c. . de morib . eccl. cath. c. . confess . l. . cap. . of negative points of faith . notes for div a -e of the sacrament of pen●ance destroying the necessity of a good life . cor. . . diss●asive . p. . ch . ● p. . the doctrine of purgatory takes away the care of a good life . sincerity of devotion hindered by prayers in an unknown tongue . preface to the polyglott bible ▪ . the languag● of prayer , no m●tter of discipline . cor . cor. . , . v. . v. . v. , , , , &c. v. . no universal consent for prayers in ●n unknown tongue . orig. c. col. l. . p . cassandr . consult . art . . lyra 〈◊〉 cor. 〈◊〉 . baron . tom. . a. . n. . walafrid strabo de reb . eccles. c. . of their doctrine of the efficacy of sacraments . gabr. biel sup . canon . miss●e lect . . lit . . bell. de effecta sacram . l. . c. . concil . trident . sess. . can. . can. . this proved to be 〈◊〉 doctrine of the roman church . cassand . consult . art . . arnald . de freq . commun . prefat . sect. . part. . c. . p. . the history of the council of trent , l. . p. . rituale roman . de sacram . ext . unct. lutet . paris . . of their discouraging the reading the scriptures . index libror . prohibit . alexand . . romae . a. d . the arguments against reading the scriptures would have held against the publishing them in a language known to the people . psal. . . psal. . . orlandin . hist. societ . iesu l. . n. . maffeius vit . ignat. l. . c. . the practice of the roman church herein directly contrary to that of the primitive church . pet. . . rom. . . tim ▪ . , . clement . epistol . ad corinth . p. . p. . p. . constit. clement . l. . c. . ignat. ep . ad philadelph . polycarp . ep. ad philipp . p. . ed. usser . clem. alexandr . strom. . p. . tertul. de anim . c. . origen . comment . in matthaeum . p. . comment . in ios. p. . homil. in levit. . basil. in psal. . hieron . prefat . com . in ep . ad ephes. s. chrys. prefat . in epist. ad rom. consil. de stabiliendâ rom. sede . p. . alphons . à castro advers . haer● . l . c. . sixti senens . biblioth . l. . annot. . espencaeus in tit. c. . p. . notes for div a -e the unreasonableness of objecting sects and fanaticism to us , as the effect of reading the scriptures . fanaticism countenanced in the roman church . private revelations pleaded for matters of doctrine . iucas waddi●g us legation , de concept . virg. mariae . pre●at . sect. . tract . . sect. . n. . baron . not . in martyrolog . rom. . decemb. wadding . l. c. sect. . p. ● . revelationes s. bri●ittae . a●tw . . brevi●r . rom. ● . octobr. p. . brev. rom. apr. . p. . raynald . annales ecclesiast . a. d. . n. . raynald . ib● bzov. annales a. d. . n. . revelations contrary to each other approved by the roman church . del : rio disquis . mag. l. . c. . q. . sect. . ioh. francis . picus mirand . de rerum praenot . l. . c. . c. . del rio ib. brigittae revel . l. . c. . salmero in . ad cor. . disp . . baron . annal . a. d. . n. . bell. de purgat . l. . c. . bellarm. de purg. l. . c. . cressy's church-history . l. . c. . biel in cano● . miss●e lect . . bellar. de sa●ram . euchar. l. . c. . bell. de poenit . l . cap. . festivals appointed on tho credit of revelations . legatio de concept . v. mariae sect. . n. . p. . bullar . rom. tom. . p. . cherubini . apud bzov. annal. to. . a. d. . n. . breviar . roman . maij p. . revelations still owned by them . revelations of divine love . ch . . p. . ch. . p. . ch. p. . ch. . p. . ch. . p. . p. . ch. p. . the monastick orders founded on enthusiasm . bellar. de pontif. rom. l. . c. . gregor . dial . l. . bollandi acta sanctorum martii . . not . in . vit . bened. c. . cap. . c. . c. , . c. , . c. . c. , . c. . c. . possevin . a par . v. s. benedict . aquin. sum. . . qu. . art . ● ad . . vasquez in , a. d'sp . . n. . joh. . . chronicon . monast. cassiaens . p. . lut. paris . . ioh. bona de divinâ psalmodia . cap. . s. . petr. damiani vit . s. romoaldi cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . c. . c. . c. . andreas mugnotius de eremo camaldulensi . lib. . pet. damiani vit . s. romualdi c. . launoy de verâ causâ seccssus brunonis in erem●m c. ● p. . launoy ib. p. , , , &c. launoy d● viso simo●is stockii . cap. . the franciscan and dominican orders founded in fanatisism . rainald . annal. eccles. a. d. . n. . bonavent . vit . francisci , c. . sect. . sedulius in elogiis s. franc. bernard . a bustis rosar . p. . serm . . sedul . . iac. de vitriaco hist. occident . c. . rainald . a. . n. . bonav . vit . francis c. . cap. . sect . . cap. . sect . . sect. . sect. . brev. roman . . octob . lect. . cap. . sect . . sect. . sect. . sect. . sect. . possevin . appar . v. franciscus . brigittae revel . l. . c. p. col. . ra●nald . a. d. . n. . wolfii lection . memorab . cent . . p. . the blasphemous enthusiasm of the meadicant fryers . nauc●ur . chronogr . vol. . gen. . p. . spondani angales eccles. a. d. . n . bellarm. chronol . ad a. d. . caesar. bulaeus in histor. unive●s . paris . tom. p. . rigo●d in vita philip● . august . a. d. . eym●ric . dir●ct . inquisit . p. . ● . . f●a●is● . pegna . no● . in direct . p. . pag. . eymeric . direct . inquisit . p. . c. . bulaei hist. universit . paris . to. . s. . p. . matth. paris . hist. ad a. d. . p. . oper. gul. de s. amore. prefat . p , bulaei hist. universit . paris . a. d. . to● . . matth paris , ibid. richerii chron. s●nonens . l. . c . bulaei hist. p. . gul. de s. amore oper . p. . gul. de s. amore de peric . novis . temp . c. . p. . chronicon . nicol. trivetti ad a. d. . matth. paris a. d. . p. . bullar . rom. tom. . alex. . bull. . p. . bulae . p. . the fanaticism of the franciscans afterwards . guido carmelit . de haeres . abb. ioachim & pet. ioh. alphonsus a castro advers . haeres . v. apost . haer . . pegna in direct . inquisit . p. . q. . eymeric . ib. haeres . . brev. rom. . octob. lect. . bonavent . vit . francis . c. . sect. . lud. a paramo de origine inquisit . l. . tit . . c. . n. . tit . . c. . n. . wolfii lect. memor . cent. . p. . wadding . annales minorum ad a. d. . possevin . appar . v. nicol. eymeric . eymeric . dir●ct . inquisit . p. . quaest . . error . . of the doctrines of the spiritual brethren . papir . masson . de episc. urbis , l. . v. ioh. . clementin . l. . tit . . bulaei histor . universit . paris . tom. . p. . p. . b●ll . de po●ti● . rom. l. . 〈◊〉 . fran. pegna in direct . inquis . comment . . gul. ockam compend . error . papae . direct . inq●isit . c. . l. . spondan . annales eccles a. d. . n. . eymeric . p. . q. . alvarus de pla●ctu eccles . l. . c. . tur cremata s●m . l. . c. . part . . bzov. annal . a. d. . n. . s●ondan . annal. a. d. . n. . raynald . annal. a. d. . n. . alvarus l. . c. . p. . 〈◊〉 chronic. sen●nerse l. cap . eym●●● . p. . q. . err . . error . . q. . s. . gerson . oper . to. . p. . pag. . eymeric . p. ● . q. . s. . lud. de paramo de orig . sa●ctae inquis . l. . tit . . cap. . n. . spondan . annal●s a.d. . n. . bulae histor . universit . paris . tom. p. . of the continuance of this sect. platina in vit . clem. . spondan . annales . a.d. . n. . prateolus de haeres . l. v. herman . paramo de orig . inquisit . l. . tit . . c. . v. . direct . inquisit . p. . §. . paramo l . tit . . c n. . pegn . not . in direct p. . q. . bzov. annales a. d. . n. . prateolus de haer . l. . v. dulcinus . turrecremata sum. de eccles. l. . p. . c. . eymeric . p. . q. . prateolus l . n. . spondan . a.d. . n. . raynald . a.d. . n. . naucler . gen. . p. . gaulticri chronol . sec. . c. . of the alumbrado's in spain . spondan . annales . a.d. . n. . lud. de paramo de origine inquisit . l. . tit . . c. . n. . lib . q. . n. , &c. n. . n. . n. . maffeius in vit . ignatii l. . cap. . schiopp . infam . famiani p. . orlandin . hist. societ . iesu l. . n. . tim . . to the . v. the jesuites order founded in fanaticism . maff●ius vit . ignat. l. . c. . ribadene●ra vit . ignat. c. . ribadencira c. . orlandin . hist. l. . ● . . orla●din . hist. l. . n. . maffei●s l. . c. . maffeius l. . c. . c. . orland . l. . n. . n. . n. . ribadeneira c. . orland . l. . n. . n . n. . maff. c. . maff. l. . c. . orland . hist. l. . n. . n. . maffei . l. . c. . orland . l. . n. . n. . maffei . l. . c. . maffei . l. . c. . orlandin . hist. soc. ies. l. . ● . . orland . n. , . n. . maffeius l. . c. . orland . n. . n. . n. . maffeius l. . cap. . orlandin . l ▪ . n. . ribad . n. c. . maff. l. . c. . orland . l. . n. . maff. l. . c. . l. . c. . maff. l. . c. . of the fanatick way of devotion among them . corderii isagog . in mystis . theolog . d●onys . c. . preface to sancta sophia . s. . lud. blo●ii . instit. spirit . cap. . sancta sophia treat . . c. . s. , . treat . . c. . s. , . sancta sophia . cap. . s. . s. . the approbations . pag. . s. . s. . cap. . s. . treat . . sect. . cap. . s. . s , . treat . . sect . cap. . s. . s. . treat . . sect . . s. , . the utmost effect of this way is gross enthusiasm . treat . . sect . . cap. . s. . s. . s. . cap. . s. . sact. . c. . s. . treat . . sect cap . s. . s. . s. . s. . cressy 's preface to sancta sophia . s. . s. . s. . s. . s. . lud. blosii monile spirit . p. . moral practice of iesuits . p . s. . of their fanaticism in resisting authority under a pretence of religion . bellar. de l●i is , l. . c. . recognit . p. . marian. de regis i●stit . l. . c. . de justâ abdicatione hen. . l . c. . philopater c. edictum . elizab. p. . answ. to philan. chap. . p. . answ. to apology . p. . answ. to philan. p. . to . remonstr . hibernor●● . p. . cap . s. . romanstr . hib. p. . c. . art . . . caron . p. . c. . s. . p. . s. amour's iournal part . . ch . . p. . index expurg . alex. . p. . ioh. launoy epistol . par . . pag. . remonstr . hib. p. . c. . p. . cap. . p. . notes for div a -e of the great pretence of unity in the church of rome . history of romish usurpations by hen. foulis . bell. de pontif. r. l. . c. . consilium greg. . exhibitum per mich. lonigum . a. d. . aphorismi de statu ecclesiae rest aurando per mich. lonigum . of the disturbances of the christian world under the pretence of the popes authority . onuphr . an●ot . in platin. vit . constant. sigonius de regno italiae . l. . a. d. . naucler . chro●o● . gen. . baron . annales eccles. a. . ton . . chronicon . sigeberti ad a. . otto frising . l. . c. . urspergens . chron. ad a. . hier. rubei histor . raven . l. . p. . hadr. vales . rerum francic . lib. . tom . . p. . sigon . de regno ital. l. . ad a. d. . papir . massonus de episcop . urbis . l. . p. . vales. tom . . p. . platina in gregor . . sirmondi concil . gallic . tom. . p. . otto frising . chron. l. . c. . papir . masson . annal. franc. l. . p. . sabellic . enead . . l. blond . decad . . lib. . conci●or . antiq. galliae s●pplement . p. . a. d. . papir . masson . annales franc. l. . p. . sigon de reg . ital. l. . a. . sermond . concil . tom. . p. . blond . decad . . l. . platin. in steph. . adelmus in franc. annal . ad a. . b●ondus ib. platina in stephan . . platina in stephan . . de translat . imp. rom. l. . c. . platin. in steph. . blond . decad . . lib. . the disturbances made by popes in the new empire . annales eccles. ad a. d. . p. aemilius in hist or franc. p. . nithard . hist. l. . à petr p'thae . ed. in annal. franc. vita ludovici pii à pithaeo ib. p. . papir . masson . in vit . greg. . sigeberti chron. a ▪ d. . hincmar . rhemens . epistol . p. . ed. cord. of the quarrels of greg. . with the emperour and other christian princes . urspergens . chronic. p. . marg . otto frising . l. . c. . petr. damiani epistol . l. . c● . . l. . epist. ad card. ep. . sigonius de regno italico l. . in hen. . a. d. . lambert . schasnabu●g . histor . german . a. d. . p. sigebert . gembloc . chron. a. . matt. paris in gul. . aventin . annal. boior . l. . p. . constitut. imperial . tom . p. . baron . annales eccles. a. d. . ● . . baron . ad a. . n. . ad a. d. . n. . . n. ● . helmoldi chron. slavorum l. . cap. . abbas ursperae . ad a. d. . sigebert . chron. ad a. d. . florent . wigorn. ad a. . matt. paris histor. anglic. a. . aventin . annal. boior . l. . p. . sentent . cardin . baronii super excomun . venet. sigon . de regno ital. l. . ad a. . baron . annal . ad a. d. . n. . id. ad a. n. . id. ib. n. . id. ad . a. . n. . id. a. . n. . mart. cromer . de gestis polon . l. . ad sin . baron . ad a. d. . n. . id. ad a. d. . n. . id. a. . n. . eadvier . prefat . ad hist. novorum . of the quarrels of his successours . onuphrius in vit . greg . sicebrct . g●mblac ad a. d. . helmold . chron. slav. l. . c ▪ . urspergens . cirron . p. . baron . annales ad a. d. . n. . aventin . annal. boior . l. . p. . baron . a. d. . n. . sigon . de regno ital. l. . a. . bar. ad a. d. . n. . constitut. imper. tom. . p. . abbas ursperg . chron. p. . ursperg . ib. baron . ad a. d. . n. . avent . annal●s boior . l. . p. . constitut. imp●r . tom. . p. . baron ad a. . n. . &c. id ad a. d. . n. . id ad a. d. n. . aventin . annal boior . l. . p. . siceberti chronic. ad a. d. . of the schisms in the roman church . bellarm. de rotis eccles. l. c. de eccles. mil●t . l c. . onuphr . annot in plat. vit formosi . victorel add . ad cia●co● . de vit . pontif . baron . annal . ad a. d. n. , . papir . masson . de episcop u. b. l. . p. . morinus de sacris eccles . ordinat . par p. . baron . annal . ad a d. . n. , . platina in vit . steph. . ad. a. d. . n. . n. . baron . a. . n. . a. d. . n. . a. d. . n. . luitprand . hist. l. . cap. . baron . ad a. . n. . baron . a. d. . n. . n. , , &c. n. . a. . n : . baron . an ▪ ad a. d. . n. . a●hors . ciaccoa . vit . pontif in clem. . of the differences in the roman church about matters of government . gregor . l. . epist. . carol● . m. capitular . l. . n. . bernard . epist. ad hen. senon . de consider . l. . c. ivo car●ot . ep ▪ . & . petri blesens . ep. . de periculis noviss . temporum . p. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . of the insufficiency of the popes authority for ending this controversie . clementin . l. . c. . gregor . decret . epistol . l . n. . c. , . matth. paris . a. d. . p. . petrus de vineis epistol . lib. . ep . . seculum quintum universit . paris . p. . d'attichy hist. cardinal . tom . vit . nibaldi . rainald . ad a. d. . n. . boulay . histor . universit . paris . tom . . p. . id. p. . meyer . annales flandr . l. . ad a. d. . extravagant . commun . l. . tit . . c. . wadding . annal. minorum ad a. d. . rich. armach . defensio curat . bulae . hist. universit . paris tom . p. . walsingham hist. angl. in adv. . p. . ioh. wickliffe against the orders of fryers . c. . p. . of the differences between the regulars and seculars in england . watsons reply to parsons his libel . p. . petri aurelii opera tom . . p. . of the jesuits particular opposition to bishops and their authority . moral practice of the jesuits . p. . bull. rom. tom. . p. . bull. . greg. . collection of tract . p. . s. amours iournal . p. . ch . . index alex . a.d. . s. amours iournal . p. . ch . . of their differences in matters of doctrine . greg. de valent. analys . fid●i l. . c. . . the insufficiency of the popes authority for ending these differences . s. amours iournal p. . ch . . iournal p. . ch . . — p. . ch . . iournal p. . ch . . iournal p. . ch . 〈◊〉 . ch● 〈◊〉 the insufficiency of councils to end controversies . history of the council of trent . l. . p. . p. . their differences are in matters of faith . their differences not confined to their schools . scot. in . lib. sent . dist . . q. . n. . apolog. p●o vitâ & morte . ioh. d●ns scoti . walsin●ham hist. circa a. d. . sext. seculum universit . paris . p. . v. mey●r . a●●al . fla●dr . l. . a. . cavelli rosar . b. mariae test . . s●cul . wadding . legatio de concept . sect. . tract . . s. . moral practice of the jesuits . pag. . notes for div a -e the misinterpreting scripture doth not hinder its being a rule of faith . s. august . tract . . in iob. cap. . of their superstitious observations . of indulgences . the practice of indulgences . baron . ad a. d. . n. . gr●g . . l . ep. . leo casin . hist. l. . c. . gul. tyrius l. . hist. orient . will. malms . l. . c. . ord●r . vitalis hist. eccl●s ad a. d. . bernard . exhort . ad milit . t●mpli c. . morinus de sacram poenit. l. . c. . cap. . baron . ad a. d. . n. . id. ad . a d. . n. . id. ad . a d . n. . id. ad . a d. . n. . ad a. d. . n. . bzov. ad a. d. . . id. a. d. . n . ad a. d. . n. . morinus de poenitent . l. . c. . baron . ad a. d. . extravag . commun . l. . tit . . c. . bzov. ad a. d. . n . bell. de i●d●l . l. . c. . gobelin . pe●so●a cos●odr●aet . . c. . of i●d●lgences at rome . hen. foulis preface to the history of romish usurpations . bell. de indulg . l. . c. . on phrius de . urbis eccles●●s . caesar raspon de basilicâ latera●ensi . l. . c. . p. . raspon . de basil. ●ater . l . c. . of indulgences for saying some prayers . horae b. v. mariae . s●cundum usum sarum . p. . pag. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . what opinion hath been had of indulgences in the roman church . durand . in sentent . l. . dist . . q. . ioh. major in sent . l. . dist . . cajetan opusc . de indulgent . init . soto in sent . l. . dist . . greg. de valent. de indulg . c ▪ . estius in sent . l. . dist . ▪ ● . . morinus de paenitent . l. ▪ c. . ● . . r●ff . c. luther art . . polyd. v●rgil . de iavent . l. . c. . al●hons . à castro adve●s . haeres . l. . v. indulg . alphons l. . c. . bellar. de am●ss●gratiae l. . c. . resp . ad ●bj . . aquin. s●pplement . sum . q. . art . bonavent . in sent . l. . dist . . q. . greg. de valent. de indulg . c. . apud . morin . l. . c. . n. . ib. n. . guil. altissiodor . sum l. . tract . . c. . morin . l. . c. . n. greg. de valent. de indulg . c. . albert. m. in sent . l. . dist . . art . . petrarch . ep . . gob●l persona●aet . . c. . paul. largii chronic. citizens . ad a. d. . u●sp●rg . chron. p. . platina in bonif. . ursperg . chron. p. . gerson . de indulg . co●sid . . bull. rom. tom. . sixt. . co●st . . s●rrar . rerum mo●untiac . l. . c. . wesseli groning . oper . p. , &c. iac. angular . in ep . wesseli . bell. de indulg . l. . c. . of bellarmins prudent christian . the absurdity of the doctrine of indulgences , and the churches treasure . cassander in consult . art . . barns cathol . rom. pacific . s. . white de medio anim . statudem . . clem. . const . . to. . bull. u●ban . const . . to. . the tendency of indulgences to hinder devotion . d●●and . in sentent . l. . dist . . q. . polyd , virg . de invent . rer . l. . c. . onus ecc●● . c. . . . centum gravamina act . . . of communion in one kind . vindication of arch-bishop land. part. . ch . . . . . . . of the popes power of dispensing . the ill consequence of asserting marriage in a priest to be worse than fornication . cor. . . cyprian . ep . . august . de san. virginit . . c. . epiph. c. haer . . hieronym . ep adv . demetriad . jewels defense of the apology part . . p. . ● tim. . . v. . bibliotheca furis canoni●i . p. . august . de bono viduitat . c. . . . of the uncertainty of faith in the roman church . vindication of arch-bishop laud part . . ch . . . . . c. . sect . . the case of a revolter and a bred papist compared . the motives of the roman church considered . preface to the second part of his dissuasive . polemical discourses p . &c. the saith of protestants reduced to principles . a seasonable vindication of the b. trinity being an answer to this question, why do you believe the doctrine of the trinity? : collected from the works of the most reverend, dr. john tillotson, late lord archbishop of canterbury, and the right reverend dr. edward stillingfleet, now lord bishop of worcester. tillotson, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing t estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a seasonable vindication of the b. trinity being an answer to this question, why do you believe the doctrine of the trinity? : collected from the works of the most reverend, dr. john tillotson, late lord archbishop of canterbury, and the right reverend dr. edward stillingfleet, now lord bishop of worcester. tillotson, john, - . stillingfleet, edward, - . assheton, william, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for b. aylmer ..., london : . compiled by w. assheton. cf. bmc. reproduction of original in the university of illinois (urbana-champaign campus). library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng trinity -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a seasonable vindication of the b. trinity . being an answer to this question , why do you believe the doctrine of the trinity ? collected from the works of the most reverend , dr. john tillotson , late lord archbishop of canterbury . and the right reverend , dr. edward stillingfleet , now lord bishop of worcester . london : printed for b. aylmer , at the three pigeons against the royal exchange in cornhill . mdcxcvii . the preface . our modern socinians ( who are pleased to call themselves unitarians ) having not only disputed , but most blasphemously ridiculed the doctrine of the b. trinity ; for the conviction of such gainsayers , and the confirmation of others , it is thought fit to publish the following discourse , faithfully collected from the learned works of archbishop tillotson , and bishop stillingfleet . concerning bishop stillingfleet , i shall say nothing , because he is alive to answer for himself . but as to archbishop tillotson , i hope it will appear even from this collection , that his grace was very far from being a socinian ; however his memory hath been very unworthily reproached in that , as well as other respects , since his death . a vindication of the b. trinity . q. why do you believe the doctrine of the trinity ? a. because it is a very rational doctrine , that is , there is the highest reason to believe it . q. what do you mean by this word trinity ? and , what doctrines concerning it are proposed to our belief ? a. i shall answer this question in the very words of the church of england ; whose doctrine , i am fully perswaded , is orthodox and catholick . there is but one living and true god , everlasting , without body , parts , or passions ; of infinite power , wisdom and goodness , the maker and preserver of all things both visible and invisible . and in unity of this godhead there be three persons , of one substance , power and eternity ; the father , the son , and the holy ghost . art. . the catholick faith is this , that we worship one god in trinity , and trinity in unity ; neither confounding the persons ; nor dividing the substance . for there is one person of the father , another of the son , and another of the holy ghost . but the godhead of the father , of the son , and of the holy ghost is all one ; the glory equal ; the majesty coeternal . the father is god , the son is god , and the holy ghost is god. and yet they are not three gods , but one god. athan. creed . it is very meet , right , and our bounden duty , that we should at all times , and in all places give thanks unto thee , o lord almighty , everlasting god. who art one god , one lord ; not one only person , but three persons in one substance . for that which we believe of the glory of the father , the same we believe of the son , and of the holy ghost , without any difference or inequality . pref. on the feast of trinity . o holy , blessed and glorious trinity , three persons and one god , have mercy upon us miserable sinners . lit. this is what we believe concerning the trinity . and that this is very rational doctrine ; and that we have the highest reason thus to believe , i shall endeavour to evince , when i have first explained the nature of faith in general , by shewing , what it is to believe ; and what this act believe doth denote when applied to any object . q. what is faith , or belief in general ? a. belief in general i define to be , an assent to that which is credible as credible . v. bishop pearson on the creed , p. . q. what is meant by this word assent ? a. by the word assent is expressed that act or habit of the understanding , by which it receiveth , acknowledgeth , and embraceth any thing as a truth , id. ib. q. but are there not several other kinds of assent , besides faith , by which the soul doth receive and embrace whatsoever appeareth to be true ? a. this assent , or judgment of any thing to be true , being a general act of the understanding , is applicable to other habits thereof as well as to faith. id. ib. q. how then is this assent which we call faith , specified and distinguished from those other kinds of assent ? a. it must be specified as all other acts are , by its proper object . id. ib. q. what is this object of faith ? a. this object of faith is that which is credible as credible . q. why do you repeat the word credible , and say credible as credible ? a. to denote the twofold object of faith , viz. material and formal . q. what is the material object of faith ? a. the material object of faith , is the thing to be believed , or something which is credible . q. what is the formal object of faith ? a. that whereby it is believed , or the reason why it is believed . q. what is it to be credible ? a. that is properly credible , which is not apparent of it self ( either in respect of our senses or understanding ) nor certainly to be collected , either antecedently by its cause , or reversely by its effect , and yet though by none of these ways , hath the attestation of a truth . v. bishop pearson , p. . q. what then is that kind of assent , which is called faith ? a. when any thing propounded to us is neither apparent to our sense , nor evident to our understanding in and of it self ; neither certainly to be collected from any clear and necessary connexion with the cause from which it proceedeth , or the effects which it naturally produceth ; nor is taken up upon any real arguments or relations to other acknowledged truths ; and yet notwithstanding appeareth to us true , not by a manifestation but attestation of the truth ; and so moveth us to assent , not of it self , but by virtue of the testimony given to it . in plain terms ; when we therefore acknowledge a thing to be true , for this only reason , because we are told that it is so : then , and in such a case we do properly believe it . and the assent that we give to such a truth thus attested , is neither science nor opinion , but faith. id. ib. q. the nature of faith in general being thus explained , i am now prepared to be instructed by you in this important question ; why do you believe the doctrine of the trinity ? a. though this doctrine of the trinity , viz. that there are three distinct persons in one and the same undivided divine essence , is neither apparent to my sense , nor evident to my understanding ( for being a great mystery , i could never have known it , unless it had been revealed ; and now it is revealed , i am not able to comprehend it ) yet since it is testified and declared by an all-knowing , and most just and faithful god , who can neither deceive nor be deceived , i do therefore give my assent unto it , as a most credible truth , and as such , i do firmly believe it . now that god , who is infinite in wisdom and knowledge , doth fully know himself , and perfectly understand his own nature : and also , that he who is infinitely good and faithful cannot deceive us ( for it is impossible for god to lye ) this i shall not pretend to prove , but can fairly suppose it , as being granted by the socinians themselves . the only thing therefore for us to prove , and which they deny , is this , viz. that the doctrine of the trinity is revealed by almighty god. for if we can make it appear , that an infinitely wise and faithful god hath revealed it ; we shall then easily convince them , that there is the highest reason to believe it . q. how then do you prove that god hath revealed it ? where hath god told us , that there are three distinct persons , in the same undivided divine essence and nature ? a. were i to discourse an atheist , or a deist , then , since all conviction must be ex concessis , i ought to prove these two things , . the possibility and necessity of divine revelation . . that the books of the old and new testament , which by way of eminency we call the scriptures , do contain this divine revelation . and that in these books god hath revealed so much of his own nature , as is necessary for us to know in order to our salvation . but since these unitarians do profess themselves christians , and consequently to believe the holy scriptures , i shall have so much charity for ▪ them at present , as to suppose it : and shall treat them as such . and then the only thing i am to prove , is this , viz. that the doctrine of the trinity is revealed in the scriptures . q. but neither the word trinity , nor the word person are to be found in scripture . how then can you pretend to prove a trinity of persons from the scriptures ? a. though neither the word trinity , nor perhaps person , in the sense in which it is used by divines when they treat of this mystery , be any where to be met with in scripture ; yet it cannot be denied but that three are there spoken of by the names of father , son , and holy ghost , in whose name every christian is baptized , and to each of whom the highest titles and properties of god are in scripture attributed . and these three are spoken of with as much distinction from one another , as we use to speak of three several persons . so that though the word trinity be not found in scripture , yet these three are there expresly and frequently mentioned . and trinity is nothing but three of any thing . and so likewise though the word person be not there expresly applied to father , son , and holy ghost ; yet it will be very hard to find a more convenient word whereby to express the distinction of these three . for which reason i could never yet see any just cause to quarrel at this term. for since the holy spirit of god in scripture hath thought fit in speaking of these three to distinguish them from one another , as we use in common speech to distinguish ▪ three several persons , i cannot see any reason why in the explication of this mystery , which purely depends upon divine revelation , we should not speak of it in the same manner as the scripture doth . and though the word person is now become a term of art , i see no cause why we should decline it , so long as we mean by it neither more nor less than what the scripture says in other words . v. archbishop tillotson's sermon on tim. . . p. . here then i fix my foot : that there are three differences in the deity , which the scripture speaks of by the names of father , son , and holy ghost , and every where speaks of them as we use to do of three distinct persons . and therefore i see no reason why in this argument we should nicely abstain from using the word person . id. sermon ii. on john . . p. . q. you confess then that the word trinity is not to be found in scripture . however , ( may these unitarians reply ) have you not found it in the athanasian creed ? and because the church of england hath owned this creed , by taking it into her liturgy , that you may approve your selves true sons of the church , therefore , say they , you are resolved to defend it . v. pref. to mr. milb . p. . a. we assert three persons in the godhead , not because we find them in the athanasian creed ; but because the scripture hath revealed that there are three , father , son , and holy ghost , to whom the divine nature and attributes are given . this we verily believe , that the scripture hath revealed ; and that there are a great many places , of which we think no tolerable sense can be given without it , and therefore we assert this doctrine on the same grounds , on which we believe the scriptures . and if there are three persons which have the divine nature attributed to them ; what must we do in this case ? must we cast off the unity of the divine essence ? no , that is too frequently and plainly asserted for us to call it into question . must we reject those scriptures which attribute divinity to the son and holy ghost , as well as to the father ? that we cannot do , unless we cast off those books of scripture , wherein those things are contained . v. bishop stillingfleet's vind. of the trinity , p. . q. but is it not trifling to prove a doctrine by scripture , which ( as the socinians pretend ) is contrary to reason ? it being a known rule ( which i shall express in the words of bishop stillingfleet ) that , whatever speaks a direct repugnancy to any of the fundamental dictates of nature , cannot be of divine revelation . v. orig. sacr. p. . for the law of nature , and of right reason , imprinted in our hearts , is as truly the law and word of god , as is that which is printed in our bibles . v. bishop sanderson's ser. . ad cl. p. . and therefore since truth is never contrary to it self , is it not impertinent to prove this doctrine of the trinity by the scriptures , which is not only above reason , but plainly contrary to it ? a. as to its being above reason , which they are loth to admit any thing to be ; this i think will bear no great dispute : because if they would be pleased to speak out , they can mean no more by this , but that our reason is not able fully to comprehend it . but what then ? are there no mysteries in religion ? that i am sure they will not say , because god , whose infinite nature and perfections , are the very foundation of all religion , is certainly the greatest mystery of all other , and the most incomprehensible . but we must not , nay they will not for this reason deny , that there is such a being as god. and therefore if there be mysteries in religion , it is no reasonable objection against them , that we cannot fully comprehend them : because all mysteries , in what kind soever , whether in religion , or in nature , so long , and so far as they are mysteries , are for that very reason incomprehensible . vid. archbishop tillotson , serm. ii. on joh. . . p. . i desire it may be considered , that it is not repugnant to reason to believe some things which are incomprehensible by our reason ; provided that we have sufficient ground and reason for the belief of them : especially if they be concerning god , who is in his nature incomprehensible ; and we be well assured that he hath revealed them . and therefore it ought not to offend us , that these differences in the deity are incomprehensible by our finite understandings ; because the divine nature it self is so , and yet the belief of that is the foundation of all religion . there are a great many things in nature which we cannot comprehend , how they either are , or can be . id. ser. on tim. . . pag. . for my own part , i confess it to be my opinion , that we converse every day with very many things , none of which we comprehend . who is he that comprehends either the structure , or the reason of the powers of seminal forms or seeds ? or how the parts of matter hold together ? or how , being in their own nature lifeless and sensless , they do ( for all that ) in some positures and textures , acquire life , sensation , and even volition , memory and reason ? or how the sun and other vast heavenly fires subsist for so many ages , without any nourishment or fuel ; which fire , of all other bodies , most requires ? or how , when the sun arrives at the tropicks , he never goes further , either northward or southward , but returns towards the equator , and thereby preserves the world by his vital warmth ? v. consider . on the trinity , to h. h. p. . there are many things likewise in our selves , which no man is able in any measure to comprehend , as to the manner how they are done and performed . as the vital union of soul and body . who can imagine by what device or means a spirit comes to be so closely united , and so firmly link'd to a material body , that they are not to be parted without great force and violence offer'd to nature ? the like may be said of the operations of our several faculties of sense and imagination , of memory and reason , and especially of the liberty of our wills. and yet we certainly find all these faculties in our selves , though we cannot either comprehend or explain the particular manner in which the several operations of them are performed . and if we cannot comprehend the manner of those operations , which we plainly perceive and feel to be in our selves , much less can we expect to comprehend things without us ; and least of all can we pretend to comprehend the infinite nature and perfections of god , and every thing belonging to him . thus you see , by these instances , that it is not repugnant to reason to believe a great many things to be , of the manner of whose existence we are not able to give a particular and distinct account . and much less is it repugnant to reason to believe those things concerning god , which we are very well assured he hath declared concerning himself , though these things by our reason should be incomprehensible . and this is truly the case as to the matter now under debate . we are sufficiently assured that the scriptures are a divine revelation , and that this mystery of the trinity is therein declared to us . now that we cannot comprehend it , is no sufficient reason not to believe it . for if it were a good reason for not believing it , then no man ought to believe that there is a god , because his nature is most certainly incomprehensible . but we are assured by many arguments that there is a god ; and the same natural reason which assures us , that he is , doth likwise assure us that he is incomprehensible ; and therefore our believing him to be so , doth by no means overthrow our belief of his being . in like manner , we are assured by divine revelation of the truth of this doctrine of the trinity : and being once assured of that , our not being able fully to comprehend it , is not reason enough to stagger our belief of it . a man cannot deny what he sees , though the necessary consequence of admitting it , may be something which he cannot comprehend . one cannot deny the frame of this world which he sees with his eyes , though from thence it will necessarily follow , that either that or something else must be of it self : which yet is a thing , which no man can comprehend how it can be . and by the same reason a man must not deny what god says , to be true ; though he cannot comprehend many things which god says : as particularly concerning this mystery of the trinity . it ought then to satisfy us that there is sufficient evidence , that this doctrine is delivered in scripture , and that what is there declared concerning it , doth not imply a contradiction . for why should our finite understandings pretend to comprehend that which is infinite , or to know all the real differences that are consistent with the unity of an infinite being ; or to be able fully to explain this mystery by any similitude or resemblance taken from finite beings ? v. archbishop tillotson's serm. on tim. . . p. . great difficulty i acknowledge there is in the explication of it , in which the further we go , beyond what god hath thought fit to reveal to us in scripture concerning it , the more we are entangled ; and that which men are pleased to call an explaining of it , does , in my apprehension , often make it more obscure , that is , less plain than it was before . which does not so very well agree with a pretence of explication . id. ser. on joh. . . p. . and therefore , though some learned and judicious men may have very commendably attempted a more particular explication of this great mystery by the strength of reason , yet i dare not pretend to that , knowing both the difficulty and danger of such an attempt , and mine own insufficiency for it . all that i ever designed upon this argument , was to make out the credibility of the thing from the authority of the holy scriptures ; without descending to a more particular explication of it than the scripture hath given us : lest by endeavouring to lay the difficulties which are already started about it , new ones should be raised , and such as may , perhaps , be much harder to be removed , than those we have now to grapple withal . nor indeed do i see that it is any ways necessary to do more ; it being sufficient that god hath declared what he thought fit in this matter , and that we do firmly believe what he says concerning it to be true , though we do not perfectly comprehend the meaning of all that he hath said about it . id. ser. on tim. . . p. . q. but these unitarians do urge the matter much further , and pretend ; that this mystery of the trinity , now under debate , is not only above reason , but plainly contrary to reason . for thus they expostulate with the bishop of worcester . he utterly mistakes ( to give you their own words ) in thinking , that we deny the articles of the new christianity , or athanasian religion , because they are mysteries , or because we do not comprehend them ; we deny them , because we do comprehend them ; we have a clear and distinct perception , that they are not mysteries , but contradictions , impossibilities , and pure nonsense . v. consid. on expl. of the trinity , in a letter to h. h. p. . now what reply hath his lordship made to this ? a. this is a very bold charge , and not very becoming the modesty and decency of such , who know at the same time that they oppose the religion publickly established , and in such things which they look on as some of the principal articles of the christian faith. v. vind. of the trinity . p. . these words contain in them so spiteful , so unjust , and so unreasonable a charge upon the christian church in general , and our own in particular , that i could not but think my self concerned , especially since they are addressed to me , to do what in me lay ( as soon as my uncertain state of health would permit ) towards the clearing the fundamental mystery of the athanasian religion , as they call it , viz. the doctrine of the trinity , which is chiefly struck at by them . v. pref. p. . q. 't is a seasonable service to the christian church in general , and our own in particular , that a person so eminent for learning and prudence , hath at this juncture undertaken the defence of the b. trinity . but in what manner doth his lordship propose to defend it ? a. without running into any new explications , or laying aside any old terms , for which he could not see any just occasion . for however thoughtful men may think to escape some particular difficulties better , by going out of the common roads ; yet they may meet with others , which they did not foresee , which may make them as well as others judge it , at last , a wiser and safer course to keep in the same way , which the christian church hath used ever since it hath agreed to express her sense in such terms , which were thought most proper for that purpose . why then are new explications started , and disputes raised and carried on so warmly about them ? we had much better satisfy our selves with that language which the church hath received ▪ and is expressed in the creeds , than go about with new terms , to raise new ferments , especially at a time , when our united forces are most necessary against our common adversaries . no wise and good men can be fond of any new inventions , when the peace of the church is hazarded by them . and it is a great pity , that any new phrases , or ways of expression , should cause unreasonable heats among those who are really of the same mind . vtd. pref. p. . and . and vind. p. . q. but how can these unitarians pretend , that the doctrine of the trinity is contrary to reason ? how , and in what manner have they attempted to prove it ? what grounds have they for such a charge as this , of contradiction and impossibility ? a. i shall draw up the charge in their own words : theirs , they say , is an accountable and reasonable faith , but that of the trinitarians is absurd , and contrary both to reason and to it self ; and therefore not only false but impossible . but wherein lies this impossibility ? that they soon tell us . because we affirm that there are three persons , who are severally and each of them true god , and yet there is but one true god. now , say they , this is an error in counting or numbring , which when stood in , is of all others the most brutal and inexcusable ; and not to discern it , is not to be a man. v. hist. of the unit. p. . n. . for we cannot be mistaken in the notion of one and three ; we are most certain that one is not three , and three are not one. v. def. of hist. of unit. p. . so that here is an arithmetical , as well as grammatical contradiction . for , in ▪ saying , god the father , god the son , and god the holy ghost , yet not three gods , but one god ; a man first distinctly numbers three gods , and then in summing them up , brutishly says , not three gods , but one god. v. acts of athanasius , p. . which is plainly , as if a man should say , peter , james , and john being three persons , are one man ; and one man is these three distinct persons , peter , james and john. is it not now a ridiculous attempt , as well as a barbarous indignity , to go about thus to make asses of all mankind , under pretence of teaching them a creed ? v. notes on athanasius's creed , p. . this is their charge . and 't is very freely spoken , with respect , not merely to our church , but the christian world ; which owns this creed to be a just and true explication of the doctrine of the trinity . but there are some creatures as remarkable for their untoward kicking , as for their stupidity . v. bishop of worcester's defence of the trinity , p. . it is strange boldness in men to talk thus of monstrous contradictions in things above their reach . but some have so used themselves to the language of jargon , nonsense , contradiction , impossibility , that it comes from them , as some men swear , when they do not know it . id. p. . but that the rudeness of these unitarians , in thus condemning the christian church , may more fully appear , let us proceed very distinctly to examine this matter . do you therefore , first , give their objection its full strength , and then , through divine assistance , i 'll return you my answer . q. are not peter , james , and john , three distinct humane persons ? a. 't is granted . q. are not peter , james , and john , three distinct different men ? a. who doubts it ? q. is it not a contradiction to say , that peter is james , or that james and john are peter ? a. this likewise must be acknowledg'd . q. is it not a contradiction to affirm , that peter , james and john , being three men , are but one man ? and is it not equally absurd to declare , that one man is these three men ? a. sure i cannot be mistaken in the notion of one and three . but am most certain , that one is not three , and three are not one. but what of all this ? q. observe what follows . are not the father , the son , and the holy ghost ( according to the athanasian creed ) three distinct different divine persons ? a. i firmly believe it . q. and if these three divine persons , father , son and holy ghost , are three gods , is it not a contradiction to say , there is but one god ? a. to say , there are three gods , and yet but one god , is doubtless a contradiction . but who affirms , there are three gods ? q. doth not the athanasian creed ? a. no. that creed expresly saith , there are not three gods , but one god. q. if you will not renounce your reason , i do thus prove it to you . the father is god , there is one. the son is god , there is two. the holy ghost is god , there is three . are not here three gods ? do you think me such a fool , that i cannot count , one , two , and three ? a. thus indeed the unitarians do wisely argue . but can these men of sense and reason think , that the point in controversy ever was , whether in numbers , one could be three , or three one ? if they think so , i wonder they do not think of another thing ; which is , the begging all trinitarians for fools ; because they cannot count one , two and three ; and an unitarian jury would certainly cast them . one would think such writers had never gone beyond shop-books ; for they take it for granted , that all depends upon counting . but these terrible charges were some of the most common and trite objections of infidels . st. augustin mentions it as such when he saith ; the infidels sometimes ask us , what do you call the father ? we answer , god. what the son ? we answer , god. what the holy ghost ? we answer , god. so that here the infidels make the same objection , and draw the very same inference . then , say they , the father , son , and holy ghost , are three gods. but what saith st. augustin to this ? had he no more skill in arithmetick , than to say , there are three , and yet but one ? he saith plainly that there are not three gods. the infidels are troubled , because they are not inlightned ; their heart is shut up , because they are without faith. by which it is plain , he look'd on these as the proper objections of infidels , and not of christians . but st. augustin doth not give it over so . when you begin to count , saith he , you go on ; one , two and three . but when you have reckon'd them , what is it you have been counting ? the father is the father , the son the son , and the holy ghost , the holy ghost . what are these three ? are they not three gods ? no. are they not three almighties ? no. they are capable of number as to their relation to each other ; but not as to their essence , which is but one . v. bishop stillingfleet's vindic. of the trin. p. . will men never learn to distinguish between numbers and the nature of things ? for three to be one is a contradiction in numbers ; but whether an infinite nature can communicate it self to three different subsistences , without such a division as is among created beings , must not be determined by bare numbers , but by the absolute perfections of the divine nature ; which must be owned to be above our comprehension . id. serm. on tim. . . p. . this is plain and convincing to all modest unprejudiced persons . but it seems our unitarians are not thus to be convinced : who do further object ; that it is as ridiculous to affirm ; that the father , the son , and the holy ghost , being three persons , are one god ; as it is to say , that peter , james , and john , being three persons , are one man. q. if i rightly apprehend them , their argument is this . three human persons are three men , therefore three divine persons are three gods. and this they repeat with great triumph in several of their pamphlets . what answer therefore can you return to this ? a. how can any man of sense be satisfied with such kind of arguments as these ? one would think , they wrote only for such as would take their words ; they join so much confidence with so very little appearance of reason . for is not this great skill in these matters , to make such a parallel between three persons in the godhead , and peter , james and john ? do they think there is no difference between an infinitely perfect being , and such finite limited creatures as individuals among men are ? do they suppose the divine nature capable of such division and separation by individuals , as human nature is ? q. no , they may say , but ye who hold three persons must think so . a. for what reason ? we do assert three persons , but it is on the account of divine revelation , and in such a manner , as the divine nature is capable of it . for it is a good rule of boethius , talia sunt praedicata , qualia subjecta permiserint . we must not say that there are persons in the trinity , but in such a manner as is agreeable to the divine nature ; and if that be not capable of division and separation , then the persons must be in the same undivided essence . id. vind. p. . so that herein lies the true solution of the difficulty , by considering the difference between the humane and divine nature . the humane nature , being finite , is capable of division , multiplication and separation . but the divine nature , being infinite , is not capable of any division , multiplication and separation . now the divine essence is that alone which makes god ; that can be but one , and therefore there can be no more gods than one. but because the same scripture , which assures us of the unity of the divine essence , doth likewise join the son and holy ghost in the same attributes , operations and worship , therefore as to the mutual relations , we may reckon three , but as to the divine essence , that can be no more than one. here then is the true reason why we affirm ; that three human persons , peter , james , and john , are three men ; and yet three divine persons , the father , the son , and the holy ghost , are but one god , because , the divine essence is not capable of such division and separation , as the human nature is . id. p. , & . q. this is full , and to the purpose ; and hath given great satisfaction to my self , as well as others . but is there nothing further objected against the doctrine of the b. trinity , wherein i may be instructed by you ? a. there is an objection lately started ; and i wonder you have not charged me with it . q. pray let me hear it ? a. 't is this . three divine substances are three gods. but three divine persons , are three divine substances . therefore , three divine persons are three gods. this hath most insultingly been repeated by our unitarians , and hath made no little noise in their late papers and pamphlets . q. who revived this old objection , and how came it now to be brought again upon the stage ? a. to understand this matter rightly , we must consider that when the socinian pamphlets first came abroad , some years since , a learned and worthy person of our church , who had appeared with great vigour and reason against our adversaries of the church of rome in the late reign ( which ought not to be forgotten ) undertook to defend the doctrine of the trinity against the history of the unitarians , and the notes of the athanasian creed : but in the warmth of disputing , and out of a desire to make this matter more intelligible , he suffer'd ▪ himself to be carried beyond the ancient methods ▪ which the church hath used to express her sense by , still retaining the same fundamental article of three persons in one undivided essence , but explaining it in such a manner , as to make each person to have a peculiar and proper substance of his own . v. bishop of worcester's pref. to vind. of trin. p. . q. let me hear the opinion of that learned person more distinctly . a. in short it is this : that the same author asserts , ( . ) that it is gross sabellianism to say , that there are not three personal minds , or spirits , or substances . ( . ) that a distinct substantial person must have a distinct substance of his own , proper and peculiar to his own person . but he owns , that although there are three distinct persons , or minds , each of whom is distinctly and by himself god , yet there are not three gods , but one god , or one divinity . which he saith , is intirely , and indivisibly , and inseparably in three distinct persons or minds . that the same one divine nature is wholly and intirely communicated by the eternal father , to the eternal son , and by the father and son to the eternal spirit , without any division or separation ; and so it remains one still . v. modest exam. p. , , , . this is the substance of this new explication , which hath raised such flames , that injunctions from authority were thought necessary to suppress them . v. pref. p. . q. pray tell me your thoughts with freedom . is this explication of the trinity , by three distinct infinite minds and substances , orthodox , or not ? a. now to deal as impartially in this matter as may be , i do not think our understandings one jot helped in the notion of the trinity by this hypothesis ; but that it is liable to as great difficulties as any other . q. you begin then to suspect his explication . a. none ought to be fond of it ; or to set it against the general sense of others , and the currant expressions of divines about these mysteries : nor to call the different opinions of others heresy or nonsense , which are provoking words , and tend very much to inflame mens passions , because their faith and understanding are both call'd in question , which are very tender things . v. pref. p. . q. is it then your opinion , that this hypothesis , of three distinct substances in the trinity , can scarce be defended ? a. i fear it will be impossible to clear this hypothesis as to the reconciling three individual essences with one individual divine essence ; which looks too like asserting , that there are three gods , and yet but one. id. p. . q. will you please to explain this more fully , that i may better understand it ? a. can one whole entire indivisible substance be actually divided into three substances ? for if every person must have a peculiar substance of his own , and there be three persons , there must be three peculiar substances . and how can there be three peculiar substances , and yet but one entire and indivisible substance ? i do not say , there must be three divided substances in place , or separate substances ; but they must be divided as three individuals of the same kind , which must introduce a specifick divine nature , which i think very inconsistent with the divine perfections . ib. p. . q. but every person must have his own proper substance , and so the substance must be divided if there be three persons . a. that every person must have a substance to support his subsistence is not denied . but the question is ; whether that substance must be divided , or not ? we say , where the substance will bear it , as in created beings , a person hath a separate substance ; that is , the same nature diversified by accidents , qualities , and a separate existence . but where these things cannot be , there the same essence must remain undivided ; but with such relative properties as cannot be confounded . v. vind. p. . when we speak of finite substances and persons , we are certain that distinct persons do imply distinct substances , because they have a distinct and separate existence . but this will not hold in an infinite substance , where necessary existence doth belong to the idea of it . id. p. . q. but say our unitarians , a person is an intelligent being : and therefore , three persons must needs be three intelligent beings . so true it is , that whosoever acknowledges three persons in the godhead ( if he takes the word in its proper sense ) ▪ must admit three gods. which the learned doctor cannot avoid , who says they are three distinct minds , three substantial beings , three intelligent beings : therefore unavoidably three gods. v. defence of hist. of unit. p. . a. the full and adequate definition of a person ( from which the learned doctor doth . draw his argument , and the unitarians their objection ) is not this , as they suppose , viz. a person is an intelligent substance . for this is but part of the definition . but the full and adequate definition of a person is this . a person is a compleat intelligent substance , with a peculiar manner of subsistence . so that , an individual intelligent substance , is rather supposed to the making of a person , than the proper definition of it . for a person relates to something which doth distinguish it from another intelligent substance in the same nature : and therefore the foundation of it lies in the peculiar manner of subsistence , which agrees to one , and to none else of the kind ; and this is it which is called personality . which doth not consist , i say , in a meer intelligent being , but in that peculiar manner of subsistence in that being , which can be in no other . so that the proper reason of personality , whereby one person is constituted and distinguished from another , it is the peculiar manner of subsistence , whereby one person hath such properties as are incommunicable to any other . v. vind. p. , & . from these premises we are instructed , why in the blessed trinity , the father , the son , and the holy ghost , are three persons , and yet but one god. the reason is this , god the father , god the son , and god the holy ghost , are but one god ; because the divine essence , nature , and substance , which alone makes god , is intirely one , and is not capable of any separation , multiplication or division . therefore , there can be no more gods than one. but since these three , father , son , and holy ghost , have each of them a peculiar manner of subsistence ; that is , each of these three hath a peculiar property , incommunicable to any other ; therefore as to their mutual relations and personalities they are three , but as to the divine essence and godhead , they are but one. and this is so far from being contrary to reason , as the socinians pretend , that it is highly rational to believe , a trinity in unity . that is , three distinct persons , and yet but one god. as i hope hath been fully proved , and that to your satisfaction . q. before you talk too much of satisfaction , you must answer me a question . a. what is it ? q. do you believe transubstantiation ? a. no , i do not . but what 's this to the purpose ? will you not allow me to believe the trinity , unless i will believe transubstantiation ? and must i renounce the trinity , because i reject transubstantiation ? q. the unitarians pretend that the case is parallel . a. pray give me their objection in their own words ; and then i shall instruct you , what answer to return to these men of sense and reason . q. i find that the belief of a trinity does contradict reason as much as transubstantiation . now who should not scruple an opinion perfectly parallel with transubstantiation , and equally fruitful in incongruities and contradictions ? well then , if the trinity implies no less contradiction than transubstantiation ; why can't we say , that it cannot be contained in scripture ? we say , transubstantiation cannot be found in scripture , because it is a plain contradiction to our reason ; but if the trinity be also a plain contradiction to our reason , why shan't we be allowed to say , that it cannot be contained in scripture ? v. def. of brief hist. of unit. p. , and . but oh ! were the press as free for the unitarians , as 't is for other protestants ; how easily would they make it appear , that the follies and contradictions so justly charged on transubstantiation ; are neither for number , consequence , nor clearness , any way comparable to those implied in the athanasian creed ; and that the trinity hath the same , and no other , foundation with transubstantiation ? so that we must of necessity admit both , or neither . v. acts of athanasius , p. . this is the sum of what they object . to which i expect an answer according to your promise . a. as preparatory to a just answer , i cannot but observe , how exactly these socinians do symbolize with the papists . for as on the one hand , they of the church of rome are so fondly and obstinately addicted to their own errors , how mishappen and monstrous soever , that rather than the dictates of their church , how absurd soever , should be called in question , they will question the truth even of christianity it self : and if we will not take in transubstantiation , and admit it to be a necessary article of the christian faith , they grow so sullen and desperate that they matter not what becomes of all the rest : and rather than not have their will of us in that which is controverted , they will give up that which by their own confession is an undoubted article of the christian faith , and not controverted on either side : in like manner ; these unitarians are so impertinently zealous in their designs against the trinity , that rather than admit that fundamental article of the christian faith , they will plead for transubstantiation ; and this even contrary to the light and dictate of their own conscience . for the socinians are hearty enemies to transubstantiation , and have exposed the absurdity of it with great advantage . v. arcbishop tillotson ' s serm. on tim. ii. . p. . q. have you nothing further to say in this matter ? a. you must give me leave to add ; i did not expect to have found this parallel so often insisted upon , without an answer to two dialogues purposely written on that subject , at a time when the doctrine of the trinity was used as an argument to bring in transubstantiation , as that is now now alledged for casting off the other . but i must do them that right to tell the world , that at that time a socinian answer was written to those dialogues , which i saw , and wished it might be printed , that the world might be satisfied about it and them . but they thought fit to forbear . and in all their late pamphlets where this parallel is so often repeated , there is but once , that i can find , any notice taken of those dialogues , and that in a very superficial manner : for the main design and scope of them is past over . v. vind. of trinit . p. . and i must needs remind these unitarians , that it is not fair nor scholar-like , so insultingly to repeat the parallel between the trinity and transubstantiation , which hath been so fully confuted in those two dialogues . q. you promised an answer , and you bring me a challenge : which i shall send to the unitarians . who indeed are obliged , in point of honour , to give satisfaction , by a just reply to those two dialogues . a. if they would consult their reputation , and credit their cause , they ought not to defer it . for those two dialogues were writ by an author , who ( to give you the very words of an unitarian ) hath all the properties , for which an adversary may be either feared , or reverenced . he understands perfectly the doctrine of the church ; and the points in question . he will commit no oversights through ignorance , hast , or inadversion . he is too experienced and judicious to hazard his cause , as others have lately done , on the success of a half-thought hypothesis , a crude invention , a pretty new querk . in a word , we can only say of him , since there is no remedy , contenti simus hoc catone . v. consid . &c. in a letter to h. h. p. . such an adversary as this is worthy the pens of their ablest writers . if therefore at this juncture , when the press is open , these unitarians shall not answer those dialogues , i must with freedom tell them , it is not because they dare not , but because they cannot . q. leaving these unitarians to defend their parallel at their leasure ; let me now hear your answer which you were pleased to promise . a. i shall endeavour to return a more particular answer to this objection ; and such a one as i hope will satisfy every considerate and unprejudiced mind , that after all this confidence and swaggering of theirs , there is by no means equal reason either for the receiving , or for the rejecting of these two doctrines of the trinity and transubstantiation . vid. archbishop tillotson's serm. on tim. ii. . p. . q. first ; let us examine , whether there be equal reason for the belief of these two doctrines ? a. if this suggestion of theirs be of any force , we must suppose that there is equal evidence and proof from scripture for these two doctrines . q. how do you prove there is not ? a. from the confession of our adversaries themselves . for several learned writers of the church of rome have freely acknowledged , that transubstantiation can neither be directly proved , nor necessarily concluded from scripture . but this the writers of the christian church did never acknowledge concerning the trinity , and the divinity of christ ; but have always appealed to the clear and undeniable testimonies of scripture for the proof of these doctrines . and then the whole force of the objection amounts to this ; that if i am bound to believe what i am sure god says , though i cannot comprehend it ; then i am bound by the same reason to believe the greatest absurdity in the world , though i have no manner of assurance of any divine revelation concerning it . q. you think then , that as there is not equal reason for the believing , so neither is there equal reason for the rejecting of these two doctrines . a. this the objection supposes ; which yet cannot be supposed but upon one or both of these two grounds . either . because these two doctrines are equally incomprehensible . or , . because they are equally loaded with absurdities and contradictions . q. as to the first ; is not the trinity as incomprehensible as transubstantiation , and as such equally to be rejected ? a. it is not good ground of rejecting any doctrine , merely because it is incomprehensible ; as i have abundantly shewed already . but besides this , there is a wide difference between plain matters of sense , and mysteries concerning god. and it does by no means follow , that if a man do once admit any thing concerning god which he cannot comprehend , he hath no reason afterwards to believe what he himself sees . this is a most unreasonable and destructive way of arguing , because it strikes at the foundation of all certainty , and sets every man at liberty to deny the most plain and evident truths of christianity , if he may not be humoured in having the absurdest things in the world admitted for true . the next step will be to persuade us , that we may as well deny the being of god , because his nature is incomprehensible by our reason , as deny transubstantiation because it evidently contradicts our senses . id. ib. p. . q. as transubstantiation evidently contradicts our senses ; so these unitarians pretend , that the trinity as evidently contradicts our reason . and then , say they , are not these two doctrines loaded with the like absurdities and contradictions ? a. so far from this , that the doctrine of the trinity , as it is delivered in the scriptures , and hath already been explained , hath no absurdity or contradiction either involved in it , or necessarily consequent upon it . but the doctrine of transubstantiation is big with all imaginable absurdity and contradiction . as the unitarians themselves do acknowledge : and therefore i am not now concerned to prove it . q. however you are concerned to defend the trinity . the contradictions and absurdities of which ( as these unitarians pretend ) are as great as those of transubstantiation . a. i cannot help their pretences . but if their prejudices will allow them to examine my reasons , i shall yet further endeavour their conviction . and that i may do it the more effectually , i shall desire you ( as their advocate , and in their name ) to produce those absurdities which appear the most dreadful . q. i shall reduce all to these two , which comprehend the rest . . how there can be three persons , and but one god. . how these can agree in a third , and not agree among themselves . for the first , it seems very absurd , that there should be three persons really distinct , whereof every one is god , and yet there should not be three gods. for nothing is more contradictious , than to make three not to be three ; or three to be but one. a. i hope now you will give me leave to make an answer to your difficulty , as distinct as possible . it is very true , that according to arithmetick , three cannot be one , nor one three . but we must distinguish between the bare numeration , and the things numbred . the repetition of three units , certainly makes three distinct numbers ; but it doth not make three persons to be three natures . and therefore as to the things themselves , we must go from the bare numbers to consider their nature . we do not say , that three persons are but one person , or that one nature is three natures ; but that there are three persons in one nature . if therefore one individual nature be communicable to three persons , there is no appearance of absurdity in this doctrine . and on the other side , it will be impossible there should be three gods , where there is one and the same individual nature . for three gods must have three several divine natures , since it is the divine essence which makes a god. v. two dial. part. ii. p. . but of this there hath been given so full an account in this collection , that those who shall seriously and attentively consider it , will , i hope , through god's blessing , receive satisfaction . q. but yet you have not answer'd the other great difficulty in point of reason , viz. that those things which agree or disagree in a third , must agree or disagree one with the other . and therefore if the father be god , the son god , and the holy ghost god ; then the father must be son and holy ghost , and the son and holy ghost must be the father . if not , then they are really the same , and really distinct ; the same as to essence , distinct as to persons ; and so they are the same , and not the same , which is a contradiction . a. now i think you have drawn out the most refined spirits of socinianism , to make the doctrine of the trinity and transubstantiation parallel , because , you say , it implies a contradiction ; which is the nearest parallel you have yet offered at . but this terrible argument is grounded on this mistaken supposition , viz. that the divine essence is no more capable of communicating it self to three distinct persons , than any created being is . the reason of that axiom being , that created things , by reason of their finite nature , cannot diffuse or communicate themselves to more than one ; and therefore those which agree in a third , must agree together . but supposing it possible that the same finite nature could extend it self to several individuals , it would be presently answered ; the axiom did hold only , where they did adequately and reciprocally agree , and not where they did agree only in essence , but differ'd in the manner of subsistence . for where a different manner of subsistence is supposed possible , in the same individual nature , the agreement in that cannot take away that difference which is consistent with it ; which we attribute to the unlimitedness and perfection of the divine nature . q. but you can bring no other instance but the thing in question ; and therefore this is a petitio principii , or taking that for granted which is in dispute . a. i do not think it to be so , where the reason is assigned from the peculiar properties of the divine nature , to which there can be no parallel . and i think it very unreasonable in the socinians , to send us to created beings for the rules and measures of our judgment , concerning a being acknowledg'd to be infinite . q. are not the divine persons infinite , as well as the divine nature ? and therefore as created persons do take in the whole nature , so infinite persons will do the infinite nature . a. no question , but the persons are infinite in regard of the nature which is so ; but if an infinite nature be communicable to more persons than one , every such person cannot appropriate the whole nature to it self . q. if the difference be on the account of infinity , then there must be an infinite number of persons in the divine essence . a. i answer ; that infiniteness of number is no perfection ; and as to the number of persons , we follow not our own conjectures , nor the authority of the church ; but divine revelation , which hath assured us , that there is but one god , and yet there are three that are one. which depends not merely on the place of st. john , but the form of baptism is remarkable to this purpose ; which joyns together the father , the son , and the holy ghost ; without any other distinction besides that of order and relation : and it is against the fundamental design of christianity , to joyn any created beings together with god in so solemn an act of religion . and st. paul joyns them together in his benediction : the grace of our lord jesus christ , and the love of god ▪ and the communion of the holy ghost be with you all . amen . cor. . . from whence the christian church hath always believed a trinity of persons in the unity of the divine nature . v. two dial. part ii. p. . the close . the unitarians themselves cannot deny , that many things certainly are , the particular manner of whose existence we can neither comprehend nor explain . therefore , though the particular manner of the existence of these three differences or persons in the divine nature , expressed in scripture by the names of father , son , and holy ghost , is incomprehensible by our finite understandings , and inexplicable by us ; that is , though the manner of the union and distinction between them , is above our reach and comprehension ; yet considering the infinite perfections of the divine nature , which are so far above our reach , god may justly oblige us to believe those things concerning himself , which we are not able to comprehend . and of this , i hope , i have given a sufficient account in the foregoing discourse . finis . the contents . the doctrine of the trinity is a very rational doctrine . p. what is meant by this word trinity , and what doctrines concerning it are proposed to our belief ? what is faith or belief in general ? why we believe the doctrine of the trinity ? how it can be proved that god hath revealed it ? object . neither the word trinity , nor the word person are to be found in scripture . answer'd . object . 't is the doctrine of the athanasian creed , therefore , the clergy of the church of england are resolved to defend it . answer'd . object . 't is above reason . answ. 't is not repugnant to reason to believe some things which are incomprehensible by our reason . object . 't is contrary to reason . answ. object . three divine persons , are three divine substances , therefore three gods. answ. the parallel between the trinity and transubstantiation largely considered . the close . catalogue of some books printed for b. aylmer . a conference with an anabaptist . being a defence of infant-baptism . in vo . price d. a theological discourse of last wills and testaments . in vo . price d. a discourse concerning a death-bed repentance . price d. a seasonable vindication of the b. trinity . being an answer to this question , why do you believe the doctrine of the trinity ? collected from the works of the most reverend , dr. john tillotson , late lord archbishop of canterbury . and the right reverend , dr. edward stillingsteet , now lord bishop of worcester . price d a short exposition ( of the preliminary questions and answers ) of the church catechism . being an introduction to a defence of infant-baptism . price d. directions in order to the suppressing of debauchery and prophaneneness . d. a discourse against blasphemy . being a conference with m. s. concerning . the rudeness of atheistical discourse . . the certainty and eternity of hell-torments . . the truth and authority of the holy scripture . d. a discourse against . drunkenness . . swearing and cursing . d. the plain man's devotion . part . being a method of daily devotion , fitted to the meanest capacities . d. the plain man's devotion . part . being a method of devotion for the lord's-day . d. these are the price of each of these small books single ; but for the encouragement of those that are so charitably inclined to give away some quantities of them , they may have them at ten shillings a hundred , at brab . aylmer ' s , in cornhill . these above , all writ by the reverend william assheton . d. d. six sermons concerning the divinity and incarnation of our blessed saviour ; his sacrifice and satisfaction : and of the unity of the divine nature in the b. trinity . by his grace , john , late lord archbishop of canterbury . in vo . certain propositions by which the doctrine of the h. trinity is so explained , according to the ancient fathers , as to speak it not contradictory to reason . a second defence of the propositions . both by edward , lord bishop of glocester . a brief exposition on the creed , the lord's prayer , and ten commandments . to which is added the doctrine of the sacraments . by isaac barrow , d. d. and late master of trinity college , cambridge . this on the creed never before published : being very different from the volume of sermons on it . in vo . now in the press . a defence of the blessed trinity . by isaac barrow , d. d. never before printed . price s. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e interrogant enim nos aliquando infideles , & dicunt , patrem quem dicitis , deum dicitis ? respondemus deum . filium quem dicitis , deum dicitis ? respondemus deum . spiritum sanctum quem dicitis , deum dicitis ? respondemus deum . ergo inquiunt , pater & filius , & spiritus sanctus tres sunt dii . respondemus , non. turbantur , quia non illuminantur , cor clausum habent quia clavem fidel non habent . aug. in job . tr. . ubi cogitare coeperis , incipis numerare : ubi numeraveris , quid numeraveris , non potes respondere . pater , pater est ; filius filius ; spiritus sanctus , spiritus sanctus est . quid sunt isti tres ? non tres dii ? non. non tres omnipotentes ? non , sed unus omnipotens . hoc solo numerum insinuant , quod ad invicem sunt , non quod ad se sunt . id. ib. six sermons with a discourse annexed, concerning the true reason of the suffering of christ, wherein crellius his answer to grotius is considered / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) six sermons with a discourse annexed, concerning the true reason of the suffering of christ, wherein crellius his answer to grotius is considered / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed by r. white, for henry mortlock, and are to be sold at his shop ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. "a sermon preached before the honourable house of commons", "a sermon preached before the king", and "a discourse concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ" each has separate t.p. table of contents: p. [ ]-[ ] errata: p. [ ] advertisement: p. 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tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng crell, johann, - . -- ad librum hugonis grotii quem de satisfactione christi. grotius, hugo, - . church of england -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. atonement. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion imprimatur , tho. grigg r. in christo p. ac d no d no humfr. episc. lond. sacellanus . jan. . . six sermons : with a discourse annexed , concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ . wherein crellius his answer to grotius is considered . by edward stillingfleet d. d. rector of s. andrews holborn , and chaplain in ordinary to his majestie . london , printed by r. white , for henry mortlock , and are to be sold at his shop , at the sign of the white hart in westminster hall. . to the reader . the design of this preface , is only to give thee an account of the occasion of publishing both parts of the following book : the first contains in it several sermons , two whereof were made publick before , which the stationer intending to re-print , i was not unwilling upon his desire , that some others should be joyned with them . the substance of those i have added , either respects the vindication of the doctrine of christianity in general ; or that part of it which relates to the sufferings of christ for us . the former i look upon as our great concernment in this age , viz. to vindicate our religion not only from the assaults of atheists , but of another sort of men who acknowledge a god and providence , but have very mean thoughts of the christian religion : against whom three sermons are especially designed , wherein i have endeavoured to prove , that the three grand attributes of god , his wisdom , power , and goodness , are as clearly discover'd in the contrivance and management of the christian religion , as in the works of creation and providence . the latter concerning the sufferings of christ is handled in a sermon preached in this city upon a solemn occasion most suitable to the subject . the matter whereof , as it relates to the reason of christs suffering for us , having met with some opposition from a busie promoter of the contrary doctrine ; and that debate being with some heat of late broken forth among us ( not without unworthy reflections on the present rulers of our church , as giving too much countenance and encouragement to it ) i thought my self obliged , so just an occasion being given , to vindicate the honour of our church , and the truth of the christian doctrine in this important controversie . in the management of which i have passed by the slighter attempts of some meaner though later adversaries ; but i have carefully considered , the utmost strength which hath been given to that cause by the great champion for it , i mean crellius in his famous answer to grotius . had i intended this at first , as a full defence of grotius against him , it must have appeared in another language , and would have taken up more time , than i can at present allow . but as it is , i hope it may be usefull at this time to those of our own nation , who dispute fiercely in this controversie , without understanding it clearly on either side . it may be some will be dissatisfied , that i give our adversaries no harder names ; but i never found any men convinced by ill language ; and those we have to deal with , are too subtle not to distinguish between loud clamours , and demonstrations . i leave that method of confuting them to those who have greater abilities in that way . it is enough for me to prove they are mistaken , others may call them what they please for being so . but i think it very incongruous for us , while we magnifie the patience and meekness of christ in his sufferings to discover our passion in disputing about them . i am not ignorant that there are two persons in the roman church , who have written something , wherein they would think me to be more concerned , than as yet i can think my self . unless i had more leasure than meerly to kill flies , viz. to run after them to make sport with them . when a just answer shall be given me , ( which i have been long threatned withall ) i may then probably to give weight , throw in the small grains scattered in many leaves , which may deserve any consideration . but for those who think that these need a present answer , they discover the weakness of their judgements too much for me ever to hope to do good upon them : and if i have any store of ammunition left , as it is hard to want it in such a cause , i am very loth to spend it upon wooll-sacks . reader , except the common civility of not charging the errors of the press upon the author , i have no other favour to request of thee , but that which thou wilt be sure to do without asking , viz. to believe me no farther , than thou seest reason for what i say . the contents . part i. six sermons upon amos . . i have overthrown some of you , as god overthrew sodom and gomorrah , and ye were as a firebrand pluckt out of the burning , yet have ye not returned unto me saith the lord , page proverbs . . fools make a mock at sin , luke . . but wisdom is justified of all her children , romans . . for i am not ashamed of the gospel of christ ; for it is the power of god to salvation to every one that believes , to the jew first , and also to the gentile , p. heb. . . how shall we escape , if we neglect so great salvation , heb. . . for consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself , lest y●… be weary and faint in your minds , part ii. a discourse concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ. chap. i. of the socinian way of interpreting scripture . of the uncertainty it leaves us in as to the main articles of faith , manifested by an exposition of gen. . suitable to that way . the state of the controversie in general concerning the sufferings of christ 〈◊〉 us . he did not suffer the same we should have done . the grand mistake in making punishments of the nature of debts ; the difference between them at large discover'd , from the different reason and ends of them . the right of punishment in god , proved against crellius , not to arise from meer dominion . the end of punishment not bare compensation , as it is in debts ; what punishment d●● to an injured person by the right , of nature ; proper punishment a result of laws . crellius his great mistake about the end of punishments , not designed for satisfaction of anger as it is a desire of revenge , seneca and lactantius vindicated against crellius . the magistrates interest in punishment distinct from that of private persons . of the nature of anger in god , and the satisfaction to be made to it . crellius his great arguments against satisfaction depend on a false notion of gods anger . of the ends of divine punishments , and the different nature of them in this and the future state . page chap. ii. the particular state of the controversie , concerning the sufferings of christ. th● concessions of our adversaries . the debate reduced to two heads : the first concerning christs sufferings , being a punishment for sin , entred upon . in what sense crellius acknowledgeth the sins of men , to have been the impulsive cause of the death of christ. the sufferings of christ proved to be a punishment , from scripture . the importance of the phrase of bearing sins . of the scape-goats bearing the sins of the people into the wilderness . grotius his sense of pet. . . vindicated against crellius and himself . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 never used for the taking away a thing by the destruction of it . crellius his sense examined . isa. . . vindicated . the argument from mat. . . answered . grotius constant to himself in his notes on that place . isa. . , , . cleared . whether christs death be a proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and whether that doth imply , that it was a punishment of sin ? how far the punishments of children for their fathers faults , are exemplary among men . the distinction of calamities and punishments , holds not here . that gods hatred of sin could not be seen in the sufferings of christ , unless they were a punishment of sin , proved against crellius . grotius his arguments from christ being made sin and a curse for us , defended . the liberty our adversaries take in changing the sense of words . the particles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being joyned to sins , and relating to sufferings , do imply those sufferings to be a punishment for sin . according to their way of interpreting scripture , it had been impossible for our doctrine to be clearly expressed therein . p. chap. iii. the words of scripture being at last acknowledged by our adversaries to make for us , the only pretence remaining is , that our doctrine is repugnant to reason . the debate managed upon point of reason . the grand difficulty enquired into , and manifested by our adversaries concessions , not to lye in the greatness of christs sufferings , or that our sins were the impulsive cause of them , or that it is impossible that one should be punished for anothers faults : or in all cases unjust : the cases wherein crellius allows it , instanced . from whence it is proved that he yields the main cause . the arguments propounded , whereby he attempts to prove it unjust for christ to be punished for our sins . crellius his principles of the justice of punishments examined . of the relation between desert and , punishment . that a person by his own consent may be punished beyond the desert of his own actions . an answer to crellius his objections . what it is to suffer undeservedly . crellius his mistake in the state of the question . the instances of scripture considered . in what sense children are punished for their parents sins . ezek. . . explained at large . whether the guilty being freed by the sufferings of an innocent person makes that punishment unjust or no ? crellins his shifts and evasions in this matter discovered . why among men the offenders are not freed in criminal matters , though the sureties be punished . the release of the party depends on the terms of the sureties suffering , therefore deliverance not ipso facto . no necessity of such a translation in criminal , as is in pecuniary matters . p. chap. iv. the death of christ considered as an expiatory sacrifice for sin . what the expiation of sin was by the sacrifices under the law ; twofold , civil and ritual . the promises made to the jews under the law of moses , respected them as a people , and therefore must be temporal . the typical nature of sacrifices asserted . a substitution in the expiatory sacrifices under the law , proved from lev. . . and the concession of crellius about the signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 joyned with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . levitic . . . explained . the expiation of uncertain murther proves a substitution . a substitution of christ in our room proved , from christs being said to dye for us ; the importance of that phrase considered . in what sense a surrogation of christ in our room is asserted by us . our redemption by christ proves a substitution . of the true notion of redemption : that explained and proved against socinus and crellius . no necessity of paying the price to him that detains captive , where the captivity is not by force , but by sentence of law. christs death a proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : and therefore the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 attributed to it , cannot be taken for meer deliverance . p. chap. v. the notion of a sacrifice belongs to the death of christ , because of the oblation made therein to god. crellius his sense of christs oblation proposed . against him it is proved , that the priestly office of christ had a primary respect to god , and not to us . expiatory sacrifices did divert the wrath of god. christ not a bare metaphorical high-priest . crellius destroys the priesthood of christ , by confounding it with the exercise of his regal power . no proper expiation of sin belongs to christ in heaven , if crellius his doctrine be true . ephes. . . proves the death of christ an expiatory sacrifice , and an oblation to god. the phrase of a sweet-smelling savour , belongs to expiatory sacrifices ; crellius his gross notion of it . his mistakes about the kinds of sacrifices . burnt-offerings were expiatory sacrifices both before and under the law. a new distribution of sacrifices proposed . what influence the mactation of the sacrifice had on expiation . the high-priest only to slay the sin-offering on the day o● atonement ; from whence it is proved , tha● christs priesthood did not begin from his entrance into heaven . the mactation in expiatory sacrifices , no bare preparation to a sacrifice , proved by the jewish laws , and the customs of other nations . whether christs oblation of himself once to god , were in heaven or on earth ? of the proper notion of oblations under the levitical law. several things observed from thence to our purpose . all things necessary to a legal oblation , concur in the death of christ. his entrance into heaven hath no correspondency with it ; if the blood of christ were no sacrifice for sin . in sin-offerings for the people , the whole was consumed ; no eating of the sacrifices allowed the priests , but in those for private persons . christs exercise of power in heaven , in no sense an oblation to god. crellius , his sense repugnant to the circumstances of the places in dispute . objections answered . p. chap. vi. that the effects of proper expiatory sacrifices ●elong to the death of christ , which either ●espect the sin or the person . of the true ●otion of expiation of sin , as attributed to sacrifices . of the importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as applied to them . socinus his proper sense of it examined . crellius his objections answered . the jews notion of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the sacrifices not bare conditions of pardon , nor expiated meerly as a slight part of obedience . gods expiating sin , destroys not expiation by sacrifice . the importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , relating to sacrifices . expiation attributed to the sacrifice of christ , in the same sense that it was to other sacrifices : and from thence , and the places of scripture which mention it , proved not to be meerly declarative . if it had been so , it had more properly belonged to his resurrection than his death . the death of christ not taken metonymically for all the consequents of it ; because of the peculiar effects of the death of christ in scripture , and because expiation is attributed to him antecedently to his entrance into heaven . no distinction in scripture of the effects of christs entrance into he●… from his sitting at the right hand of g●… the effects of an expiatory sacrifice , respe●… ing the person , belong to the death of chri●… which are atonement and reconciliation . of 〈◊〉 signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the reconc● liation by christs death , doth not meerly r● spect us , but god ; why the latter less us● in the new testament . a twofold reconciliation with god mentioned in scriptur● crellius his evasion answered . the objectio● from gods being reconciled in the sending 〈◊〉 son , and the inconsistency of the freeness 〈◊〉 grace with the doctrine of satisfaction a● swered , and the whole concluded . p. ● errata . page . marg . for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , p. l. . blot out : af●… to , p. . l. . for . make : p. . l. . for intemperace r. inte●… p●●ance , p. . marg . r. cod. leg. antiq . p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , p. . l. . r. respect , p. . l. . r. future , p. . l. . for 〈◊〉 sin r. of , p. . l. . for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . l. . for express●… r. oppression , p. . l. . for by r. upon , p. . l. . blot out 〈◊〉 p. . l. . after expressed insert in , p. . l. . after must insert b●… p. . l. . for appeale r. appease , p. . l. , for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. . marg . for placendi r. placandi . a sermon preached before the honourable house of commons , at st. margarets westminster octob. . . being the fast-day appointed for the late dreadful fire in the city of london . by edward stillingfleet , b. d. rector of st. andrews holborn , and one of his majesties chaplains in ordinary . published by order of the said house . the fourth edition . london , printed by robert white , for henry mortlock , and are to be sold at his shop , at the sign of the white hart in westminster hall. . amos . . i have overthrown some of you , as god overthrew sodom and gomorrah , and ye were as a firebrand pluckt out of the burning : yet have ye not returned unto me , saith the lord. it is but a very little time since you met together in this place to lament the remainders of a raging pestilence , which the last year destroyed so many thousand ●nhabitants of the late great and famous city : and now god hath given us another ●●d occasion for our fasting and humiliation , by suffering a devouring fire to break forth and consume so many of her habitations . as though the infected air had been too kind and partial , and like saul to the amalekites , had only destroyed the vile and refuse , and spared the greatest of the people ; as ●hough the grave had surfeited with the bodies of the dead , and were loth to go o● in the execution of gods displeasure ; h●… hath imployed a more furious element which by its merciless and devouring flame might in a more lively manner represe●… unto us the kindling of his wrath again●… us . and that by a fire , which began wit● that violence , and spread with that ho●… rour , and raged with that fury , and co● tinued for so long a time with that irre●… stible force ; that it might justly fill th●… beholders with confusion , the hearers o●… it with amazement , and all of us with a dee●… and humble sense of those sins which hav● brought down the judgements of god in s●… severe a manner in the midst of us . for whatever arguments or reasons w● can imagine that should compose the mind of men to a sense of their own or othe● calamities , or excite them to an appre●… hension of the wrath of god as the cause o● them , or quicken them to an earnest sup●… plication to him for mercy , they do a●… eminently concurr in the sad occasion o●… this dayes solemnity . for if either compassion would move , or fear awaken , o●… interest engage us to any of these , it i●… hard to conceive there should be an instance of a more efficacious nature , than that is which we this day bewail ; for who n behold the ruines of so great a city , ●nd not have his bowels of compassion ●oved towards it ? who can have any ●ense of the anger of god discovered in it , ●nd not have his fear awakened by it ? who can ( as we ought all ) look upon it as a judgement of universal influence on ●he whole nation , and not think himself concerned to implore the mercy of heaven towards us ? for certainly , howsoever we may vainly flatter and deceive our selves , these are no common indications of the frowns of heaven ; nor are they meerly intended as the expressions of gods severity towards that city which hath suffered so much by them ; but the stroaks which fall upon the head ( though they light upon that only ) are designed for the punishment of the whole body . were there nothing else but a bare permission of divine providence as to these things , we could not reasonably think , but that god must needs be very angry with us , when he suffers two such dreadful calamities to tread almost upon each others heels ; that no sooner had death taken away such multitudes of our inhabitants , but a fire follows it to consume our habitations . a fire , so dreadful in its appearance , in its rage and fury , and in all the dismal consequences of it ( which we cannot yet be sufficiently apprehensive of ) that on that very account we may justly lie down in our shame , and our confusion cover us : because god hath covered the daughter of sion with a cloud in his anger , and cast down from heaven to earth the beauty of israel , and remembred not his footstool in the day of his anger . for such was the violence and fury of the flames , that they have not only defaced the beauty of the city , and humbled the pride and grandeur of it ; not only stained its glory , and consumed its palaces ; but have made the houses of god themselves a heap of ruines , and a spectacle of desolation . and what then can we propose to our selves as arguments of gods severe displeasure against us , which we have not either already felt , or have just cause to fear are coming upon us without a speedy and sincere amendment ? if a sword abroad and pestilence at home , if fire in our houses and death in our streets , if forreign wars and domestick factions , if a languishing state and a discontented people , if the ruines of the city and poverty of the countrey , may make us sensible how sad our condition at present is , how much worse it may be ( if god in his mercy prevent it not ) we shall all surely think we have reason enough this day to lay to heart the evil of our doings which have brought all these things upon us , and abhor our selves , repenting in dust and ashes . that would seem indeed to bear some analogy with the present ruines of the city , and the calamities we lie under at this time ; but god will more easily dispense with the pompous shews , and solemn garbs of our humiliation ; if our hearts bleed within for our former impieties , and our repentance discovers its sincerity , by bringing us to that temper ; that , though we have done iniquity , we will do so no more . that is the true and proper end , which almighty god aims at , in all his judgements : he takes no delight in hurling the world into confusions , and turning cities into ruinous heaps , and making whole countreys a desolation : but when he sees it necessary to vindicate the honour of his justice to the world , he doth it with that severity that may make us apprehend his displeasure , and yet with that mercy which may incourage us to repent and return unto the lord. thus we finde in the instances recorded in the text , when some cities were consumed by him ; so that as far as concerned them , they were made like to sodom and gomorrah : yet he doth it with that kindness to the inhabitants , that they are pluckt as firebrands out of the burning : and therefore he looks upon it as a frustrating the design both of his justice , and of his mercy , when he is fain to conclude with that sad reflection on their incorrigibleness ; yet have ye not returned unto me saith the lord. thus ye sec what the design and scope of the words is , which i have read unto you , wherein we may consider , . the severity of the judgement which god was pleased to execute upon them . i have overthrown some of you , as god overthrew sodom and gomorrah . . the mixture of his mercy in the midst of his severity , and ye were as a firebrand pluckt out of the burning . . the incorrigibleness of the people notwithstanding both . yet have ye not , &c. in the first we have gods rod lifted up to strike , in the second we have gods hand stretched out to save , yet neither of these would make them sensible of their disobedience ; though their cities were overthrown for their sakes , though they themselves escaped not for their own sakes , but for his mercies sake only whom they had so highly provoked ; yet have ye not returned unto me , saith the lord. i am sure i may say of the two former parts of the text , as our saviour doth in another case , this day hath this scripture been fulfilled among you : we have seen a sad instance of gods severity , a city almost wholly consumed as sodom and gomorrah , and a great expression of his kindness , the inhabitants saved , as firebrands pluckt out of the burning : o let it never be said that the last part of the words is fulfilled too , yet have ye not returned unto me , &c. which , that it may not be , i shall first consider the severity of god in his judgement this day , and then discover the mixture of his kindness with it , and the result of both will be the unreasonableness of obstinate disobedience after them . . the severity of the judgement here expressed : which , though we take it not in reference to the persons of men , but to the cities wherein they dwelt : as it seems to be understood not only by the original , wherein the words relating to persons are left out : but by the following clause , expressing their preservation : yet we shall finde the judgement to be severe enough , in regard . of the nature and kind of it . . the series and order of it . . the causes moving to it . . the author of it . i have overthrown some of you , as god overthrew , &c. . the nature and kind of it : we can imagine nothing more severe when we consider what it is set forth by , the most unparalleld judgement we read of , viz. the destruction of sodom and gomorrah by a fire from heaven . although in all circumstances the instance might not come up to the parallel , yet in several respects there might be so sad a desolation , that any other example but that might fall beneath the greatness and severity of it . and we may better understand of how sad and dreadfull a nature such a judgement must be , if we consider it with relation to the suddenness and unexpectedness of it , to the force and violence of it , and to all that sad train of circumstances which attend and follow it . . the suddenness and unexpectedness of it ; as god overthrew sodom and gomorrah , i. e. when they least of all looked for such a desolation . for thus it was in the dayes of lot ( as our saviour tells us ) they did eat , they drank , they bought , they sold , they planted , they builded ; but the same day that lot went out of sodom , it rained fire and brimstone from heaven , and destroyed them all . they were all immersed either in their pleasures or in their business , they little thought of destruction being so near them as it proved to be ; thus it was with the jews in their first and latter destruction both of their city and countrey , they were as high and as confident of the contrary as might be to the very last ; nothing could perswade them that their temple or their city should be burnt with fire , till they saw them flaming before their eyes . thus josephus observes of his countreymen , that in the midst of all their miseries they had no kind of sense at all of their sins , but were as proud , presumptuous and arrogant , as if all things went well with them ; and were like to do so . they thought god could not possibly punish such a people as they were in such a manner ; they could easily have believed it of any other people but themselves : but that god should punish his own people in covenant with him , that judgement should begin at the house of god , that they who had loved to be called by his name , should be made examples to all other nations ; this seemed so harsh and incredible that by no means could they entertain it . but god and wise men too thought otherwise of them than they did of themselves : they could not but see an outward shew of religion joyned with a deep and subtil hypocrisie ; there being among them an heap of pride and luxury , of fraud and injustice , of sedition and faction gilded over with a fair shew of greater zeal for god and his glory : which that impartial historian ( as one who knew them well ) hath described at large : and although they could not believe that such heavy judgements should befall them , yet others did not only believe , but tremble at the apprehensions of them . who among all the citizens of london could have been perswaded , but the day before the fire brake out , nay when they saw the flames for near a day together , that ever in four dayes time , not a fourth part of the city should be left standing ? for when were they ever more secure and inapprehensive of their danger than at this time ? they had not been long returned to their houses , which the plague had driven them from , and now they hoped to make some amends for the loss of their trade before ; but they returned home with the same sins they carried away with them ; like new moons , they had a new face and appearance , but the same spots remained still : or it may be , increased by that scumm they had gathered in the countreys where they had been . like beasts of prey that had been chained up so long till they were hunger-bitten , when they once got loose they ran with that violence and greediness , to their wayes of gain , as though nothing could ever satisfie them . but that which betrayed them to so much security , was their late deliverance from so sweeping a judgement as the plague had been to the city and suburbs of it : they could by no means think , when they had all so lately escaped the grave , that the city it self should be so near being buried in its own ruines ; that the fire which had missed their blood , should seize upon their houses ; that there should be no other way to purge the infected air , but by the flames of the whole city . thus when the mariners have newly escaped a wreck at sea , the fears of which have a long time deprived them of their wonted rest , they think they may securely lye down and sleep , till it may be another storm overtake and sink them . we see then there is neither piety nor wisdom in so much security when a great danger is over , for we know not but that very security it self may provoke god to send a greater . and no kind of judgements are so dreadful and amazing , as those which come most unexpectedly upon men ; for these betray the succours which reason offers , they infatuate mens councils , weaken their courage , and deprive them of that presence of mind which is necessary at such a time for their own and the publick interest . and there needs no more to let us know how severe such a judgement must be , when it comes upon men in so sudden and unexpected a manner ; but that is not all , for the severity of it lyes further , . in the force and violence of it : and surely that was very great which consumed four cities to nothing in so short a time , when god did pluere gehennam de coelo as one expresses it , rained down hell-fire upon sodom and gomorrah . and this is that which some think is called the vengeance of eternal fire , which all those in sodom and gomorrah are said to suffer ; i. e. a fire which consumed , till there was nothing left to be consumed by it . not but that those wicked persons did justly suffer the vengeance of an eternal fire in another life , but the apostle seems to set out and paint forth to us that in the life to come , by the force and violence of that fire which destroyed those cities ; and it would be harsh to say , that all who were involved in that common calamity ( who yet were innocent as to the great abominations of those places , viz. the infants there destroyed ) must be immediately sentenced to eternal misery . but although god since that perpetual monument of his justice in the destruction of those cities hath not by such ●…n immediate fire from heaven consumed and razed out the very foundations of other cities ; yet at some times there are fires which break out and rage with a more than ordinary violence , and will not yield to those attempts for quenching them , which at other times may be attended with great success . such might that great fire in rome be in nero's time , which whether begun casually , or by design ( which was disputed then , as it hath been about others since ) did presently spread it self with greater speed over the cirque ( as the historian tells us ) than the wind it self , and never left burning , till of fourteen regions in rome , but four were left entire . such might that be in the emperour titus his time , which lasted three dayes and nights , and was so irresistible in its fury , that the historian tells us , it was certainly more than an ordinary fire . such might that be in the same city in the time of commodus , which though all the art and industry imaginable were used for the quenching it , yet it burnt , till it had consumed besides the temple of peace , the fairest houses and palaces of the city , which on that account , the historians attribute to more than natural causes . such might that be ( which comes the nearest of any i have met with , to that fire we this day lament the effects of ) i mean that at constantinople , which happened a. d. . in the beginning of september ; it brake forth by the water side , and raged with that horrible fury for four dayes together , that it burnt down the greatest part of the city , and was so little capable of resistance , that as evagrius tells us , the strongest houses were but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , like so much dryed stubble before it ; by which means the whole city was , as he calls it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a most miserable and dolefull spectacle ; so that as baronius expresses it , that city which before was accounted the wonder of the world , was made like to sodom and gomorrah . such likewise might those two great fires have been which have formerly burnt down great part of the then city of london ; but neither of them come near the dreadfulness of this , considering how much bigger the habitations of the city were now , and how much greater the riches of it then could be imagined at those times . how great must we conceive the force of this fire to have been , which having at first gotten a head where there was little means of resisting it , and much fuel to increase it ; from thence it spread it self both with and against the wind ; till it had gained so considerable a force , that it despised all the resistance could be made by the strength of the buildings which stood in its way ; and when it had once subdued the strongest and the tallest of them , it then roared like the waves of the sea , and made its way through all the lesser obstacles , and might have gone on so far , till it had laid this city level with the ruines of the other , had not he who sets the bounds to the ocean , and saith , thus far shalt thou go and no farther , put a stop to it in those places which were as ready to have yielded up themselves to the rage of it , as any which had been consumed before . . the severity of it will yet more appear from all the dreadful circumstances which attend and follow it . could you suppose your selves in the midst of those cities which were consumed by fire from heaven , when it had seized upon their dwellings , o what cryes and lamentations , what yellings and shriekings might ye then have heard among them ! we may well think how dreadful those were , when we do but consider how sad the circumstances were of the fire we mourn for this day . when it began like sampson to break in pieces all the means of resisting it , and carried before it not only the gates , but the churches and most magnificent structures of the city , what horrour and confusion may we then imagine had seized upon the spirits of the citizens ; what distraction in their councils , what paleness in their countenances , what pantings at their hearts , what an universal consternation might have been then seen upon the minds of men ? but o the sighs and tears , the frights and amazements , the miscarriages , nay the deaths of some of the weaker sex at the terrour and apprehension of it ! o the hurry and useless pains , the alarms and tumults , the mutual hinderances of each other that were among men at the beholding the rage and fury of it ! there we might have seen women weeping for their children , for fear of their being trod down in the press , or lost in the crowd of people , or exposed to the violence of the flames ; husbands more solicitous for the safety of their wives and children , than their own ; the souldiers running to their swords , when there was more need of buckets ; the tradesmen loading their backs with that which had gotten possession of their hearts before . then we might have heard some complaining thus of themselves : o that i had been as carefull of laying up treasures in heaven , as i have been upon earth , i had not been under such fears of losing them as now i am ! if i had served god as faithfully as i have done the world , he would never have left me as now that is like to do . what a fool have i been which have spent all my precious time for the gaining of that which may be now lost in an hours time ! if these flames be so dreadful , what are those which are reserved for them who love the world more than god! if none can come near the heat of this fire , who can dwell with everlasting burnings ! o what madness then will it be to sin any more wilfully against that god who is a consuming fire , infinitely more dreadful than this can be ! farewell then all ye deceitful vanities : now i understand thee and my self better , o bewitching world , then to fix my happiness in thee any more . i will henceforth learn so much wisdom to lay up my treasures there where neither moths can corrupt them , nor thieves steal them , nor fire consume them . o how happy would london be , if this were the effect of her flames on the minds of all her inhabitants ! she might then rise with a greater glory , and her inward beauty would outshine her outward splendour , let it be as great as we can wish or imagine . but in the mean time who can behold her present ruines , without paying some tears as due to the sadness of the spectacle , and more to the sins which caused them ? if that city were able to speak out of its ruines , what sad complaints would it make of all those impieties which have made her so miserable . if it had not been ( might she say ) for the pride and luxury , the ease and delicacy of some of my inhabitants , the covetousness , the fraud , the injustice of others , the debaucheries of the prophane , the open factions and secret hypocrisie of too many pretending to greater sanctity , my beauty had not been thus turned into ashes , nor my glory into those ruines which make my enemies rejoyce , my friends to mourn , and all stand amazed at the beholding of them . look now upon me , you who so lately admired the greatness of my trade , the riches of my merchants , the number of my people , the conveniency of my churches , the multitude of my streets , and see what desolations sin hath made in the earth . look upon me , and then tell me whether it be nothing to dally with heaven , to make a mock at sin , to slight the judgements of god , and abuse his mercies , and after all the attempts of heaven to reclaim a people from their sins , to remain still the same that ever they were ? was there no way to expiate your guilt but by my misery ? had the leprosie of your sins so fretted into my walls , that there was no cleansing them , but by the slames which consume them ? must i mourn in my dust and ashes for your iniquities , while you are so ready to return to the practice of them ? have i suffered so much by reason of them , and do you think to escape your selves ? can you then look upon my ruines with hearts as hard and unconcerned as the stones which lye in them ? if you have any kindness for me , or for your selves , if you ever hope to see my breaches repaired , my beauty restored , my glory advanced , look on londons ruines and repent . thus would she bid her inhabitants not weep for her miseries , but for their own sins ; for if never any sorrow were like to her sorrow , it is because never any sins were like to their sins . not as though they were only the sins of the city , which have brought this evil upon her ; no , but as far as the judgement reaches , so great hath the compass of the sins been , which have provoked god to make her an example of his justice . and i fear the effects of londons calamity will be felt all the nation over . for , considering the present languishing condition of this nation , it will be no easie matter to recover the blood and spirits which have been lost by this fire . so that whether we consider the sadness of those circumstances which accompanied the rage of the fire , or those which respect the present miseries of the city , or the general influence those will have upon the nation , we cannot easily conceive what judgement could in so critical a time have befallen us , which had been more severe for the kind and nature of it , than this hath been . . we consider it in the series and order of it . we see by the text , this comes in the last place , as a reserve , when nothing else would do any good upon them : it is extrema medicina , as st. hierom saith , the last attempt that god uses to reclaim a people by , and if these causticks will not do , it is to be feared he looks on the wounds as incurable . he had sent a famine before , v. . a drought , v. , . blasting and mildew , v. . the pestilence after the manner of egypt , v. . the miseries of war in the same verse . and when none of these would work that effect upon them , which they were designed for , ●hen he comes to this last way of punishing before a final destruction , he overthrew some of their cities as he had overthrown sodom ●nd gomorrah . god forbid , we should be so near a final subversion , and utter desolation , as the ten tribes were , when none of these things would bring them to repentance ; but yet the method god hath used with us seems to bode very ill in case we do not at last return to the lord. for it is not only agreeable to what is here delivered as the course god used to reclaim the israelites , but to what is reported by the most faithfull historian of those times of the degrees and steps that god made before the ruines of the british nation . for gildas tells us the decay of it began by civil wars among themselves , and high discontents remaining as the consequents of them , after this an universal decay and poverty among them ; after that , nay during the continuance of it , wars with the picts and scots their inveterate enemies ; but no sooner had they a little breathing space , but they return to their luxury and other sins again ; then god sends among them a consuming pestilence , which destroyed an incredible number of people . when all this would not do , those whom they trusted most to , betrayed them , and rebelled against them , by whose means , not only the cities were burnt with fire , but the whole island was turned almost into one continued flame . the issue of all which at last was , that their countrey was turned to a desolation , the ancient inhabitants driven out , or destroyed , and their former servants , but now their bitter enemies , possessing their habitations . may god avert the omen from us at this day . we have smarted by civil wars , and the dreadful effects of them ; we yet complain of great discontents and poverty as great as them , we have inveterate enemies combined abroad against us , we have very lately suffered under a pestilence as great almost as any we read of , and now the great city of our nation burnt down by a dreadful fire . and what do all these things mean ? and what will the issue of them be ? though that be lockt up in the councils of heaven , yet we have just cause to fear , if it be not our speedy amendment , it may be our ruine . and they who think that incredible , let them tell me whether two years since , they did not think it altogether as improbable , that in the compass of the two succeeding years , above a hundred thousand persons should be destroyed by the plague in london and other places , and the city it self should be burnt to the ground ? and if our fears do not , i am sure our sins may tell us , that these are but the fore-runners of greater calamities , in case there be not a timely reformation of our selves . and although god may give us some intermissions of punishments , yet at last he may , as the roman consul expressed it , pay us intercalatae poenae usuram , that which may make amends for all his abatements , and give us full measure according to that of our sins , pressed down , shaken together , and running over . which leads to the third particular . . the causes moving god to so much severity in his judgements , which are the greatness of the sins committed against him . so this prophet tells us , that the true account of all gods punishments is to be fetched from the sins of the people , amos . . for three transgressions of damascus , and for four i will not turn away the punishment thereof : so it is said of gaza , v. . of tyrus , v. . of edom , v. . of ammon , v. . moab , ch . . . judah , v. . and at last israel , v. . and it is observable of every one of these , that when god threatens to punish them for the greatness of their iniquities , and the multitude of their transgressions , ( which is generally supposed to be meant by the three transgressions and the four ) he doth particularly threaten to send a fire among them to consume the houses and the palaces of their cities . so to damascus , chap. . . to gaza , v. . to tyrus , v. . to edom , v. . to ammon , v. . to moab , ch . . v. . to judah , v. . i will send a fire upon judah , and it shall devour the palaces of jerusalem : and israel in the words of the text . this is a judgement then , which when it comes in its fury , gives us notice to how great a height our sins are risen ; especially when it hath so many dreadfull fore-runners , as it had in israel , and hath had among our selves . when the red horse hath marched furiously before it all bloody with the effects of a civil war , and the pale horse hath followed after the other with death upon his back , and the grave at his heels , and after both these , those come , out of whose mouth issues fire , andsmoak , and brimstone , it is then time for the inhabitants of the earth , to repent of the work of their hands . but it is our great unhappiness , that we are apt to impute these great calamities to any thing rather than to our sins ; and thereby we hinder our selves from the true remedy , because we will not understand the cause of our distemper . though god hath not sent prophets among us , to tell us for such and such sins , i will send such and such judgements upon you , yet where ●…e observe the parallel between the sins●…d ●…d the punishments agreeable with what ●…e find recorded in scripture , we have rea●…n to say , that those sins were not only the ●…tecedents , but the causes of those punish●…ents which followed after them . and ●…at because the reason of punishment was ●…ot built upon any particular relation be●ween god and the people of israel , but ●pon reasons common to all mankind ; yet with this difference , that the greater the mercies were which any people enjoyed , the sooner was the measure of their iniquities filled up , and the severer were the judgements when they came upon them . this our prophet gives an account of , chap. . . you only have i known of all the nations of the earth , therefore will i punish you for your iniquities . so did god punish tyre and damascus , as well as israel and judah ; but his meaning is , he would punish them sooner , he would punish them more severely . i wish we could be brought once to consider what influence piety and vertue hath upon the good of a nation , if we did , we should not only live better our selves , but our kingdom and nation might flourish more than otherwise we are like to see it do . which is a truth hath been so universally received among the wise men of 〈◊〉 ages , that one of the roman historian , though of no very severe life himself , y●… imputes the decay of the roman state , n●… to chance or fortune , or some unhidd●… causes ( which the atheism of our ag●… would presently do ) but to the gene●… loosness of mens lives , and corruption 〈◊〉 their manners . and it was the grave observation of one of the bravest captain ever the roman state had , that it was i●… possible for any state to be happy , stantib●… moenibus , ruentibus moribus , though their wal●… were firm , if their manners were decayed . bu● it is our misery , that our walls and ou● manners are fallen together , or rather the latter undermined the former . they are our sins which have drawn so much of our blood , and infected our air , and added the greatest fuel to our flames . but it is not enough in general to declaim against our sins , but we must search out particularly those predominant vices , which by their boldness and frequency have provoked god thus to punish us ; and as we have hitherto observed a parallel between the judgements of israel in this chapter , and our own : so i am afraid we shall finde too sad a parallel between their sins and ours too . three sorts of sins are here spoken of in a peculiar manner , as the causes ●f their severe punishments , their luxury ●nd intemperance , their covetousness and op●ression , and their contempt of god and his laws , and i doubt we need not make a ●ery exact scrutiny to finde out these in a ●igh degree among our selves : and i wish ●t were as easie to reform them , as to finde them out . . luxury and intemperance ; that we meet with in the first verse , both in the compellation , ye kine of bashan , and in their behaviour , which say to their masters , bring , and let us drink . ye kine of bashan , loquitur ad principes israel & optimates quosque decem tribuum , saith st. hierom , he speaks to the princes of israel , and the chief of all the ten tribes ; those which are fed in the richest pastures , such as those of bashan were . who are more fully described by the prophet in this sixth chapter . they are the men who are at ease in sion , v. . they put far away from them the evil day , v. . they lye upon beds of ivory , and stretch themselves upon their couches , and eat the lambs out of the flock , and the calves out of the midst of the stall , v. . they chaunt to the sound of the viol , and invent to themselves instruments of musick like david , v. . they drink wine in bowls , and annoint themselves with the chief oyntments , but they are not grieved s●… the affliction of joseph . the meaning of a●… which is , they minded nothing but ease●… softness , and pleasure , but could not endure to hear of the calamities which wer● so near them . nothing but mirth , an● jollity , and riot , and feasting , and the evi●… consequences of these were to be seen o● heard among them . their delicate soul●… were presently rufled and disturbed at the discourse of any thing but matters of courtship , address and entertainment . any thing that was grave and serious , though never so necessary , and of the greatest importance , was put off , as felix put off st. paul to a more convenient time : especially if it threatned miseries to them , and appeared with a countenance sadder than their own . these were the kine of bashan , who were full of ease and wantonness , and never thought of the day of slaughter , which the other were the certain fore-runners of . symmachus renders it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which others apply to the rich citizens of samaria , i am afraid we may take it in either sense without a soloecism . bring and let us drink , which as st. hierom goes on , ebrietatem significat in vino & luxuria quae statum mentis evertunt , it implies the height of their luxury and intemperance . it is observed by some , that our prophet retains still the language of his education in the bluntness of his expressions , the great men that lived wholly at their ease , in wantonness and luxury , he styles like the heardsman of tekoa , the kine of bashan . that he thought was title good enough for such who seemed to have souls for no other end , than the other had . and hath not that delicata insania , as st. austin calls it , that soft and effeminate kinde of madness taken possession of too many among us , whose birth and education designed them for more manly imployments ? yea , what an age of luxury do we live in , when instead of those noble characters of men from their vertue , and wisdom , and courage , it is looked on among some as a mighty character of a person , that he ea●s and drinks well : a character that becomes none so much as the kine of bashan in the literal sense , for surely they did so , or else they had never been in so much esteem among the heardsmen of tekoa . a character which those philosophers would have been ashamed of , who looked upon no other end of humane life but pleasure ; but in order to that , they thought nothing more necessary than temperance and sobriety ; but whatever esteem they had then , they have lost all their reputation among our modern epicures , who know of no such things a●… pleasures of the mind , and would not mu●… value whether they had any faculties of th●… mind or no , unless it were for the contrivance of new oaths and debaucheries but if this were only among some few persons , we hope the whole nation would not suffer for their madness : for scarce any age hath been so happy , but it hath ha●… some monsters in morality as well as nature . but i am afraid these vices are grown too epidemical ; not only in the city , but the countreys too ; what mean else those frequent complaints ( and i hope more general than the causes of them ) that the houses of great men in too many places are so near being publick schools of debauchery , rather than of piety and vertue , where men shall not want instructers to teach them to forget both god and themselves ; wherein sobriety is so far from being accounted a matter of honour , that the rules of the persian civility are quite forgotten , and men are forced to unman themselves . i know nothing would tend more to the honour of our nation , or the advantage of it , then if once these publick excesses were severely restrained , i do not mean so much by making new laws , ( for those generally do but exercise peoples wits by finding out new evasions ) but by executing old ones . . covetousness and oppression . you see what these great men in samaria did when they had any respite from their excesses and intemperance , then woe be to the poor who come in their way ; which oppress the poor , and crush the needy : v. . either by the hands of violence , or by those arts and devices which either their honesty or poverty have kept them from the knowledge of . and if there be not so much of open violence in our dayes , the thanks are due to the care of our magistrates , and the severity of our laws , but it is hard to say whether ever any age produced more studious and skilfull to pervert the design of laws , without breaking the letter of them , than this of ours hath done . fraud and injustice is now managed with a great deal of artifice and cunning ; and he thinks himself no body in the understanding of the world , that cannot over-reach his brother , and not be discovered : or however in the multiplicity and obscurity of our laws cannot finde out something in pretence at least to justifie his actions by . but if appeal be made to the courts of judicature , what arts are then used either for concealing or hiring witnesses , so that if their purses be not equal , the adverse party may overswear him by so much as his purse is weightier than the others . i heartily wish it may never be said of us , what the orator once said of the greeks , quibus jusjurandum jocus , testimonium ludus , they made it a matter of jest and drollery to forswear themselves , and give false testimonies . but supposing men keep within the bounds of justice and common honesty , yet how unsatiable are the desires of men ! they are for adding house to house , and land to land , never contented with what either their ancestors have left them , or the bountiful hand of heaven hath bestowed upon them . till at last it may be in the prophets expression for their covetousness , the stone cry out of the wall , and the beam out of the timber answer it ; i. e. provoke god to give a severe check to the exorbitant and boundless desires of men , as he hath done by this dayes calamity . thus while the city thought with babylon to sit as a lady for ever , while she dwelt carelesly , and said i am , and there is none else besides me ; evil is come upon her , and she knows not from whence it comes , and mischief is fallen upon her , and she hath not been able to put it off , and desolation is come upon her suddenly , which she did not foresee . . contempt of god and his laws . that we read of v. . where the prophet speaks by an irony to them , come to bethel and transgress , &c. he knew well enough they were resolved to do it , let god or the prophet say what they pleased . for these kine of bashan were all for the calves of dan and bethel , and some think that is the reason of the title that is given them . these great men of samaria thought it beneath them to own religion any further than it was subservient to their civil interests . they were all of jeroboams religion , who looked on it as a meer politick thing , and fit to advance his own designs by . i am afraid there are too many at this day who are secretly of his minde , and think it a piece of wisdom to be so : blessed god , that men should be so wise to deceive themselves , and go down with so much discretion to hell ! these are the grave and retired atheists , who , though they secretly love not religion , yet their caution hinders them from talking much against it . but there is a sort of men much more common than the other ; the faculties of whose minds are so thin and aiery , that they will not bear the consideration of any thing , much less of religion ; these throw out their bitter scoffs , and prophane jests against it . a thing never permitted that i know of in any civilized nation in the world ; whatsoever their religion was , the reputation of religion was always preserved sacred : god himself ( saith josephus ) would not suffer the jews to speak evil of other gods , though they were to destroy all those who tempted them to the worship of them . and shall we suffer the most excellent and reasonable religion in the world , viz. the christian , to be profaned by the unhallowed mouths of any who will venture to be damned , to be accounted witty ? if their enquiries were deeper , their reason stronger , or their arguments more perswasive , than of those who have made it their utmost care and business to search into these things , they ought to be allowed a fair hearing ; but for men who pretend to none of these things , yet still to make religion the object of their scoffs and raillery , doth not become the gravity of a nation professing wisdom to permit it , much less the sobriety of a people professing christianity . in the mean time such persons may know , that wise men may be argued out of a religion they own , but none but fools and mad men will be droll'd out of it . let them first try whether they can laugh men out of their estates , before they attempt to do it out of their hopes of an eternal happiness . and i am sure it will be no comfort to them in another world , that they were accounted wits for deriding those miseries which they then feel and smart under the severity of : it will be no mitigation of their flames that they go laughing into them ; nor will they endure them the better because they would not believe them . but while this is so prevailing a humour among the vain men of this age and nation , what can we expect but that god should by remarkable and severe judgements , seek to make men more serious in religion , or else make their hearts to ake , and their joynts to tremble , as he did belshazzars , when he could find nothing else to carouse in but the vessels of the temple . and when men said in the prophet zephany , chap. . . that god neither did good nor evil , presently it follows , therefore their goods shall become a booty , and their houses a desolation : the day of the lord is near , a day of wrath , a day of trouble and distress , a day of wasteness and desolation ; as it is with us at this time . thus we see how sad the parallel hath been not only in the judgements of israel , but in the sins likewise which have made those judgements so severe . . the severity of the judgement appears not only from the causes , but from the author of it . i have overthrown some of you as god overthrew sodom and gomorrah . god challenges the execution of his justice to himself , not only in the great day , but in his judgement here in the world . shall there be evil in a city , and the lord hath not done it ? when god is pleased to punish men for their sins , the execution of his justice is as agreeable to his nature now , as it will be at the end of the world . we all know that he may do it if he please , and he hath told us , that he doth and will do it ; and we know withall , that without such remarkable severities , the world will hardly be kept in any awe of him . we do not finde that love doth so much in the world as fear doth , there being so very few persons of tractable and ingenuous spirits . it is true of too many , what lactantius observes of the romans , nunquam dei meminerunt , nisi dum in malis sunt , they seldom think of god , but when they are afraid of him . and there is not only this reason as to particular persons why god should punish them , but there is a greater as to communities , and bodies of men ; for although god suffers wicked men to escape punishment here , as he often doth ; yet he is sure not to do it in the life to come ; but communities of men can never be punished but in this world ; and therefore the justice of god doth often discover it self in these common calamities , to keep the world in subjection to him , and to let men see that neither the multitude of their associates , nor the depth of their designs , nor the subtilty of their councils can secure them from the omnipotent arm of divine justice , when he hath determined to visit their transgressions with rods , and their iniquities with stripes . but when he doth all this , yet his loving kindness doth he not utterly take from them : for in the midst of all his judgements he is pleased to remember mercy ; of which we have a remarkable instance in the text , for when god was overthrowing cities , yet he pluckt the inhabitants as firebrands out of the burning : and so i come from the severity of god , . to the mixture of his mercy in it . and ye were as a fire-brand pluckt out of the burning . that notes two things , the nearness they were in to the danger , and the unexpectedness of their deliverance out of it . . the nearness they were in to the danger , quasi torris , cujus jam magna pars absumpta est , as some paraphrase it ; like a brand , the greatest part of which is already consumed by fire ; which shews the difficulty of their escaping . so joshua is said to be a brand pluckt out of the fire , zech. . . and to thi● st. hierom upon this place , applyes tha● difficult passage , cor. . . they shall b● saved , but so as by fire , noting the greatnes● of the danger they were in , and how hardly they should escape . and are not all the inhabitants of this city , and all of us in the suburbs of the other , whose houses escaped so near the flames , as firebrands pluckt out of the burning ? when the fire came on in its rage and fury , as though it would in a short time have devoured all before it , that not only this whole city , but so great a part of the suburbs of the other should escape untouched , is ( all circumstances considered ) a wonderfull expression of the kindness of god to us in the midst of so much severity . if he had suffered the fire to go on to have consumed the remainder of our churches and houses , and laid this city even with the other in one continued heap of ruines , we must have said , just art thou o lord , and righteous in all thy judgements . we ought rather to have admired his patience in sparing us so long ; than complain of this rigour of his justice in punishing us at last ; but instead of that he hath given us occasion this day with the three children in the fiery furnace to praise him in the midst of the flames . for even the inhabitants of london themselves who have suffered most in this calamity , have cause to acknowledge the mercy of god towards them , that they are escaped themselves ; though it be ( as the jews report of joshua , the high priest , when thrown into the fire by the chaldaeans ) with their cloaths burnt about them . though their habitations be consumed , and their losses otherwise may be too great , yet that in the midst of so much danger by the flames , and the press of people , so very few should suffer the loss of their lives , ought to be owned by them and us as a miraculous providence of god towards them . and therefore not unto us , not unto us , but to his holy name be the praise of so great a preservation in the midst of so heavy a judgement . . the unexpectedness of such a deliverance ; they are not saved by their own skill and counsel , nor by their strength and industry , but by him who by his mighty hand did pluck them as firebrands out of the burning . though we own the justice of god in the calamities of this day , let us not forget his mercy in what he hath unexpectedly rescued from the fury of the flames ; that the royal palaces of our gracious soveraign , the residence of the nobility , the houses of parliament , the courts of judicature , the place where we are now assembled and several others of the same nature , with other places and habitations to receive those who were burnt out of their own , stand at this day untouched with the fire ( and long may they continue so ) ought chiefly to be ascribed to the power and goodness of that god , who not only commands the raging of the sea , and the madness of the people , but whom the winds and the flames obey . although enough in a due subordination to divine providence can never be attributed to the mighty care and industry of our most gracious soveraign , and his royal highness , who by their presence and incouragement inspired a new life and vigour into the sinking spirits of the citizens , whereby god was pleased so far to succeed their endeavours , that a stop was put to the fury of the fire in such places where it was as likely to have prevailed , as in any parts of the city consumed by it . o let us not then frustrate the design of so much severity mixed with so great mercy : let it never be said , that neither judgements nor kindness will work upon us : that neither our deliverance from the pestilence which walks in darkness , nor from the flames which shine as the noon-day , will waken us from that lethargy and security ●…e are in by our sins : but let god take ●hat course he pleases with us , we are the ●ame incorrigible people still that ever we ●ere . for we have cause enough for our ●ourning and lamentation this day , ( if god●ad ●ad not sent new calamities upon us ) that we were no better for those we had undergone before . we have surfetted with mercies , and grown sick of the kindness of heaven to us , and when god hath made us smart for our fulness and wantonness , then we grew sullen and murmured and disputed against providence , and were willing to do any thing but repent of our sins , and reform our lives . it is not many years since god blessed us with great and undeserved blessings , which we then thought our selves very thankfull for ; but if we had been really so , we should never have provoked him who bestowed those favours upon us in so great a degree as we have done since . was this our requital to him for restoring our soveraign , to rebell the more against heaven ? was this our thankfulness , for removing the disorders of church and state , to bring them into our lives ? had we no other way of trying the continuance of gods goodness to us , but by exercising his pa●… ence by our greater provocations ? 〈◊〉 though we had resolved to let the wor● see , there could be à more unthankful an● disobedient people than the jews had bee● thus we sinned with as much security an● confidence , as though we had blinded th●… eyes , or bribed the justice , or commande● the power of heaven . when god of 〈◊〉 sudden like one highly provoked dre● forth the sword of his destroying angel , and by it cut off so many thousands in th● midst of us : then we fell upon our knees , and begg'd the mercy of heaven , that our lives might be spared , that we might have time to amend them : but no sooner did our fears abate , but our devotion did so too , we had soon forgotten the promises we made in the day of our distress , and i am afraid it is at this day too true of us which is said in the revelations of those who had escaped the several plagues which so many had been destroyed by . and the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues , yet repented not of the work of their hands . for if we had not greedily suckt in again the poyson we had only laid down while we were begging for our lives , if we had not returned with as great fury and violence as ever to our former lusts , the removing of one judgement had not been as it were only to make way for the coming on of another . for the grave seemed to close up her mouth , and death by degrees to withdraw himself , that the fire might come upon the stage , to act its part too in the tragoedy our sins have made among us : and i pray god this may be the last act of it . let us not then provoke god to finde out new methods of vengeance , and make experiments upon us of what other unheard of severities may do for our cure . but let us rather meet god now by our repentance , and returning to him , by our serious humiliation for our former sins , and our stedfast resolutions to return no more to the practice of them . that , that much more dangerous infection of our souls may be cured as well as that of our bodies , that the impure flames which burn within may be extinguished , that all our luxuries may be retrenched , our debaucheries punished , our vanities taken away , our careless indifferency in religion turned into a greater seriousness both in the profession and the practice of it . so will god make us a happy and prosperous , when he finds us a more righteous and holy nation . so will god succeed all your endeavours for the honour and interest of that people whom you represent . so may he add that other title to the rest of those you have deserved for your countreys good , to make you repairers of the breaches of the city as well as of the nation , and restorers of paths to dwell in : so may that city which now sits solitary like a widow , have her tears wiped off , and her beauty and comeliness restored unto her . yea , so may her present ruines , in which she now lyes buried , be only the fore-runners of a more joyfull resurrection . in which , though the body may remain the same , the qualities may be so altered , that its present desolation may be only the putting off its former inconveniencies , weakness , and deformities , that it may rise with greater glory , strength and proportion : and to all her other qualities , may that of incorruption be added too , at least till the general conflagration . and i know your great wisdom and justice will take care , that those who have suffered by the ruines , may not likewise suffer by the rising of it , that the glory of the city may not be laid upon the tears of the orphans and widows , but that its foundations may be setled upon justice and piety . that there be no complaining in the streets for want of righteousness , nor in the city for want of churches , nor in the churches for want of a settled maintenance . that those who attend upon the service of god in them may never be tempted to betray their consciences to gain a livelihood , nor to comply with the factious humours of men , that they may be able to live among them . and thus when the city through the blessing of heaven shall be built again , may it be a habitation of holiness towards god , of loyalty towards our gracious king and his successors , of justice and righteousness towards men , of sobriety , and peace , and unity among all the inhabitants , till not cities and countries only , but the world and time it self shall be no more . which god of his infinite mercy grant through the merits and mediation of his son , to whom with the father and eternal spirit , be all honour and glory for evermore . finis . a sermon preached before the king , march . / . by edward stillingfleet , b. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . printed by his majesties special command . the fourth edition . london , printed by r. white , for henry mortlock , and are to be sold at his shop , at the sign of the white hart in westminster hall. . proverbs . . fools make a mock at sin. when god by his infinite wisdom had contrived , and by a power and goodness , as infinite as his wisdom , had perfected the creation of the visible world , there seemed to be nothing wanting to the glory of it , but a creature endued with reason and understanding , which might comprehend the design of his wisdom , enjoy the benefits of his goodness , and employ it self in the celebration of his power . the beings purely intellectuall were too highly raised by their own order and creation , to be the lords of this inferiour world : and those whose natures could reach no higher than the objects of sense , were not capable of discovering the glorious perfections of the great creator : and therefore could not be the fit instruments of his praise and service . but a conjunction of both these together was thought necessary to make up such a sort of beings , which might at once command this lower world , and be the servants of him who made it . not as though this great fabrick of the world were meerly raised for man to please his fancy in the contemplation of it , or to exercise his dominion over the creatures designed for his use and service : but that by frequent reflections on the author of his being , and the effects of his power and goodness he might be brought to the greatest love and admiration of him . so that the most natural part of religion lyes in the grateful acknowledgments we owe to that excellent and supream being , who hath shewed so particular a kindness to man in the creation and government of the world . which was so great and unexpressible , that some have thought , it was not so much pride and affectation of a greater height , as envy at the felicity and power of mankind , which was the occasion of the fall of the apostate spirits . but whether or no the state of man were occasion enough for the envy of the spirits above ; we are sure the kindness of heaven was so great in it , as could not but lay an indispensable obligation on all mankind to perpetual gratitude and obedience . for it is as easie to suppose , that affronts and injuries are the most suitable returns for the most obliging favours , that the first duty of a child should be to destroy his parents ; that to be thankful for kindnesses received , were to commit the unpardonable sin ; as that man should receive his being and all the blessings which attend it from god , and not be bound to the most universal obedience to him . and as the reflection on the author of his being , leads him to the acknowledgement of his duty towards god , so the consideration of the design of it , will more easily acquaint him with the nature of that duty which is expected from him . had man been designed only to act a short part here in the world , all that had been required of him , had been only to express his thankfulness to god for his being , and the comforts of it : the using all means for the due preservation of himself ; the doing nothing beneath the dignity of humane nature , nothing injurious to those who were of the same nature with himself ; but since he is designed for greater and nobler ends , and his present state , is but a state of tryal , in order to future happiness and misery ; the reason of good and evil is not to be taken meerly from his present , but from the respect , which things have to that eternal state he is designed for . from whence it follows , that the differences of good and evil are rooted in the nature of our beings , and are the necessary consequents of our relation to god , and each other , and our expectations of a future life . and therefore according to these measures , the estimation of men in the world hath been while they did preserve any veneration for god or themselves . wisdom and folly was not measured so much by the subtilty and curiosity of mens speculations , by the fineness of their thoughts , or the depth of their designes , as by their endeavours to uphold the dignity of mankind ; by their piety and devotion towards god ; by their sobriety and due government of their actions ; by the equality and justice , the charity and kindness of their dealings to one another . wisdom was but another name for goodness , and folly for sin ; then it was a mans glory to be religious ; and to be prophane and vitious , was to be base and mean : then there were no gods worshipped because they were bad , nor any men disgraced because they were good . then there were no temples erected to the meanest passions of humane nature , nor men became idolaters to their own infirmities . then to be betrayed into sin , was accounted weakness ; to contrive it , dishonour and baseness ; to justifie and defend it , infamy and reproach ; to make a mock at it , a mark of the highest folly and incorrigibleness . so the wise man in the words of the text assures us , that they are fools , and those of the highest rank and degree of folly , who make a mock at sin . it is well for us in the age we live in , that we have the judgement of former ages to appeal to , and of those persons in them whose reputation for wisdom is yet unquestionable . for otherwise we might be born down by that spightful enemy to all vertue and goodness , the impudence of such , who it is hard to say whether they shew it more in committing sin , or in defending it . men whose manners are so bad , that scarce any thing can be imagined worse , unless it be the wit they use to excuse them with . such who take the measure of mans perfections downwards , and the nearer they approach to beasts , the more they think themselves to act like men . no wonder then , if among such as these the differences of good and evil be laughed at , and no sin be thought so unpardonable , as the thinking that there is any at all . nay the utmost they will allow in the description of sin , is , that it is a thing that some live by declaiming against , and others cannot live without the practice of . but is the chair of scorners at last proved the only chair of infallibility ? must those be the standard of mankind , who seem to have little left of humane nature , but laughter and the shape of men ? do they think that we are all become such fools to take scoffs for arguments , and raillery for demonstrations ? he knows nothing at all of goodness , that knows not that it is much more easie to laugh at it , than to practise it ; and it were worth the while to make a mock at sin , if the doing so would make nothing of it . but the nature of things does not vary with the humours of men ; sin becomes not at all the less dangerous because men have so little wit to think it so ; nor religion the less excellent and advantageous to the world , because the greatest enemies of that are so much to themselves too , that they have learnt to despise it . but although that scorns to be defended by such weapons whereby her enemies assault her , ( nothing more unbecoming the majesty of religion , than to make it self cheap , by making others laugh ) yet if they can but obtain so much of themselves to attend with patience to what is serious , there may be yet a possibility of perswading them , that no fools are so great as those who laugh themselves into misery , and none so certainly do so , as those who make a mock at sin . but if our authority be too mean and contemptible to be relyed on , in a matter wherein they think us so much concern'd ( and so i hope we are to prevent the ruine of mens souls ) we dare with confidence appeal to the general sense of mankind in the matter of our present debate . let them name but any one person in all the monuments of former ages , to whom but the bare suspicion of vice was not a diminution to an esteem that might otherwise have been great in the world . and if the bare suspicion would do so much among even the more rude and barbarous nations , what would open and professed wickedness do among the more knowing and civil ? humane nature retains an abhorrency of sin , so far that it is impossible for men to have the same esteem of those who are given over to all manner of wickedness , though otherwise of great sharpness of wit , and of such whose natural abilities may not exceed the other , but yet do govern their actions according to the strict rules of religion and vertue . and the general sense o●… mankind cannot be by any thing better known , than by an universal consent of men , as to the wayes whereby they express their value and esteem of others . what they all agree on as the best character of a person worthy to be loved and honoured , we may well think is the most agreeable to humane nature ; and what is universally thought a disparagement to the highest accomplishments , ought to be looked on as the disgrace and imperfection of it . did ever any yet , though never so wicked and profane themselves , seriously commend another person for his rudeness and debaucheries ? was any mans lust or intemperance ever reckoned among the titles of his honour ? who ever yet raised trophies to his vices , or thought to perpetuate his memory by the glory of them ? where was it ever known , that sobriety and temperance , justice and charity were thought the marks of reproach and infamy ? who ever suffered in their reputation by being thought to be really good ? nay , it is so far from it , that the most wicked persons do inwardly esteem them whether they will or no. by which we see , that even in this lapsed and degenerate condition of mankind , it is only goodness which gains true honour and esteem , and nothing doth so effectually blast a growing reputation , as wickedness & vice . but if it be thus with the generality of men , who were never yet thought to have too much partiality towards goodness , we may much more easily find it among those , who have had a better ground for the reputation of their wisdom , than the meer vogue of the people . he who was pronounced by the heathen oracle , to be the wisest among the greeks , was the person who brought down philosophy from the obscure and uncertain speculations of nature , and in all his discourses recommended vertue as the truest wisdom . and he among the jews , whose soul was as large as the sand on the sea shore , whose wisdom out-went that of all the persons of his own or future ages , writes a book on purpose to perswade men , that there is no real wisdom , but to fear god and keep his commandments : that sin is the greatest folly , and the meaner apprehensions men have of it , the more they are infatuated by the temptations to it . but as there are degrees of sinning , so there are of folly in it . some sin with a blushing countenance , and a trembling conscience ; they sin , but yet they are afraid to sin , but in the act of it they condemn themselves for what they do ; they sin , but with confusion in their faces , with horror in their minds , and an earthquake in their consciences : though the condition of such persons be dangerous , and their unquietness shews the greatness of their folly , yet because these twitches of conscience argue there are some quick touches left of the sense of good and evil , their case is not desperate , nor their condition incurable : but there are others who despise these as the reproach of the school of wickedness , because they are not yet attained to those heights of impiety which they glory in : such who have subdued their consciences much easier than others do their sins ; who have almost worn out all the impressions of the work of the law written in their hearts ; who not only make a practice , but a boast of sin , and defend it with as much greediness as they commit it : these are the men , whose folly is manifest to all men but themselves ; and surely , since these are the men , whom solomon in the words of the text describes , ( . ) by their character , as fools , and , ( . ) by the instance of their folly , in making a mock at sin ; we may have not only the liberty to use , but ( . ) to prove , that name of reproach to be due unto them ; and ( . ) to shew the reasonableness of ●astning it upon them , because they make a mock at sin . but before i come more closely to pursue that , it will be necessary to consider another sense of these words caused by the ambiguity of the hebrew verb , which sometimes signifies to deride and scorn , sometimes to plead for , and excuse a thing with all the arts of rhetorick ( thence the word for rhetorick is derived from the verb here used ) according to which sense , it notes all the plausible pretences and subtle extenuations which wicked men use in defence of their evil actions . for as if men intended to make some recompence for the folly they betray in the acts of sin , by the wit they employ in the pleading for them , there is nothing they shew more industry and care in , than in endeavouring to baffle their own consciences , and please themselves in their folly , till death and eternal flames awaken them . that we may not therefore seem to beg all wicked men for fools , till we have heard what they have to say for themselves , we shall first examine the reasonableness of their fairest pleas for their evil actions , before we make good the particular impeachment of folly against them . there are thre● wayes especially whereby they seek t●… justifie themselves ; by laying the bla● of all their evil actions , either upon th● fatal necessity of all events , the unavoidable frailty of humane nature , or the impossibility of keeping the laws of heaven . but that none of these will serve to excuse them from the just imputation of folly , is our present business to discover . . the fatall necessity of all humane actions . those who upon any other terms are unwilling enough to own either god or providence , yet if they can but make these serve their turn to justifie their sins by , their quarrell against them then ceaseth , as being much more willing that god should bear the blame of their sins , than themselves . but yet the very fears of a deity suggest so many dreadful thoughts of his majesty , justice , and power , that they are very well contented to have him wholly left out ; and then to suppose man to be a meer engine , that is necessarily moved by such a train and series of causes , that there is no action how bad soever that is done by him , which it was any more possible for him not to have done , than for the fire not to burn when it pleases . if this be true , farewell all the differences of good and evil in mens actions ; farewell all ●xpectations of future rewards and punishments ; religion becomes but a meer name , and righteousness but an art to live by . but it is with this , as it is with the other arguments they use against religion ; there ●s something within , which checks and controlls them in what they say : and that inward remorse of conscience , which such men sometimes feel in their evil actions ( when conscience is forced to recoil by the foulness of them ) doth effectually confute their own hypothesis ; and makes them not believe those actions to be necessary , for which they suffer so much in themselves because they knew they did them freely . or is it as fatal for man to believe himself free when he is not so , as it is for him to act when his choice is determined ? but what series of causes is there that doth so necessarily impose upon the common sense of all mankind ; it seems very strange , that man should have so little sense of his own interest to be still necessitated to the worst of actions , and yet torment himself with the thoughts that he did them freely . or is it only the freedom of action , and not of choice , that men have an experience of within themselves ? but surely , however men may subtilly dispute of the difference between these two , no man would ever believe himself to be free in what he does unless he first thought himself to be so , in what he determines ? and if we suppose man to have as great a freedom of choice i● all his evil actions ( which is the liberty we are now speaking of ) as any persons assert or contend for , we cannot suppose that he should have a greater experience of it , than now he hath . so that either it is impossible for man to know when his choice is free ; or if it may be known , the constant experience of all evil men in the world will testifie , that it is so now . is it possible for the most intemperate person to believe , when the most pleasing temptations to lust or gluttony are presented to him , that no consideration whatever could restrain his appetite , or keep him from the satisfaction of his bruitish inclinations ? will not the sudden , though groundless apprehension of poyson in the cup , make the drunkards heart to ake , and hand to tremble , and to let fall the supposed fatal mixture in the midst of all his jollity and excess ? how often have persons who have designed the greatest mischief to the lives and fortunes of others , when all opportunities have fallen out beyond their expectation for accomplishing their ends , through some sudden thoughts which have surprized them , almost in the very act , been diverted from their intended purposes ? did ever any yet imagine that the charms of beauty and allurements of lust were so irresistible , that if men knew before hand they should surely dye in the embraces of an adulterous bed , they could not yet withstand the temptations to it ? if then some considerations , which are quite of another nature from all the objects which are presented to him , may quite hinder the force and efficacy of them upon the mind of man ( as we see in josephs resisting the importunate caresses of his mistris ) what reason can there be to imagine that man is a meer machine moved only as outward objects determine him ? and if the considerations of present fear and danger may divert men from the practice of evil actions , shall not the far more weighty considerations of eternity have at least an equal , if not a far greater power and efficacy upon mens minds , to keep them from everlasting misery ? is an immortal soul and the eternal happiness of it so mean a thing in our esteem and value , that we will not deny our selves those sensual pleasures for the sake of that which we would renounce for some present danger ? are the flames of another world such painted fires , that they deserve only to be laughed at , and not seriously considered by us ? fond man ! art thou only free to ruine and destroy thy self ? a strange fatality indeed , when nothing but what is mean and trivial shall determine thy choice ! when matters of the highest moment are therefore less regarded , because they are such . hast thou no other plea for thy self , but that thy sins were fatal ? thou hast no reason then to believe but that thy misery shall be so too . but if thou ownest a god and providence , assure thy self that justice and righteousness are not meer titles of his honour , but the real properties of his nature . and he who hath appointed the rewards and punishments of the great day , will then call the sinner to account , not only for all his other sins , but for offering to lay the imputation of them upon himself . for if the greatest abhorrency of mens evil wayes , the rigour of his laws , the severity of his judgements , the exactness of his justice , the greatest care used to reclaim men from their sins , and the highest assurance , that he is not the cause of their ruine , may be any vindication of the holiness of god now , and his justice in the life to come ; we have the greatest reason to lay the blame of all our evil actions upon our selves , as to attribute the glory of all our good unto himself alone . . the frailty of humane nature : those who finde themselves to be free enough to do their souls mischief , and yet continue still in the doing of it , find nothing more ready to plead for themselves , than the unhappiness of mans composition , and the degenerate state of the world . if god had designed ( they are ready to say ) that man should lead a life free from sin , why did he confine the soul of man to a body so apt to taint and pollute it ? but who art thou o man , that thus findest fault with thy maker ? was not his kindness the greater , in not only giving thee a soul capable of enjoying himself , but such an habitation for it here , which by the curiosity of its contrivance , the number and usefulness of its parts , might be a perpetual and domestick testimony of the wisdom of its maker ? was not such a conjunction of soul and body necessary for the exercise of that dominion which god designed man for , over the creatures endued only with sense and motion ? and if we suppose this life to be a state of tryall in order to a better , ( as in all reason we ought to do ) what can be imagined more proper to such a state , than to have the soul constantly employed in the government of those sensual inclinations which arise from the body ▪ in the doing of which , the proper exercise of that vertue consists , which is made th● condition of future happiness . had it no● been for such a composition , the difference could never have been seen between goo● and bad men ; i. e. between those who maintain the empire of reason , assisted by the motives of religion , over all the inferiour faculties , and such who dethrone their souls and make them slaves to every lust that will , command them . and if men willingly subject themselves to that which they were born to rule , they have none to blame but themselves for it . neither is it any excuse at all , that this , through the degeneracy of mankinde , is grown the common custom of the world ; unless that be in it self so great a tyrant , that there is no resisting the power of it . if god had commanded us to comply with all the customs of the world , and at the same time to be sober , righteous , and good , we must have lived in another age than we live in , to have excused these two commands from a palpable contradiction . but instead of this , he hath forewarned us of the danger of being led aside by the soft and easie compliances of the world ; and if we are ●ensible of our own infirmities , ( as we have ●ll reason to be ) he hath offered us the ●ssistance of his grace and of that spirit of ●is , which is greater than the spirit that is ●n the world. he hath promised us those weapons whereby we may withstand the ●orrent of wickedness in the world , with far greater success than the old gauls were wont to do the inundations of their countrey , whose custom was to be drowned with their arms in their hands . but it will be the greater folly in us to be so , because we have not only sufficient means of resistance , but we understand the danger before hand . if we once forsake the strict rules of religion and goodness , and are ready to yield our selves to whatever hath got retainers enough to set up for a custom , we may know where we begin , but we cannot where we shall make an end . for every fresh assault makes the breach wider , at which more enemies may come in still ; so that when we finde our selves under their power , we are contented for our own ease to call them friends . which is the unhappy consequence of too easie yielding at first , till at last the greatest slavery to sin be accounted but good humour , and a gentile compliance with the fashions of the world . so that when men are pe● swaded , either through fear , or too gre●… easiness to disuse that strict eye which the● had before to their actions ; it oft-time falls out with them , as it did with the soul dier in the roman history , who blinded hi● eye so long in the time of the civil wan●… that when he would have used it agai●… he could not . and when custom hath b● degrees taken away the sense of sin fro● their consciences , they grow as hard as h●… rodotus tells us the heads of the old egypt● ans were by the heat of the sun , that nothing would ever enter them . if men wil●… with nebuchadnezzar herd with the beast● of the field , no wonder if their reason departs from them , and by degrees they grow as savage as the company they keep . so powerfull a thing is custom to debauc● mankinde , and so easily do the greatest vices by degrees obtain admission into the souls of men , under pretence of being retainers to the common infirmities of humane nature . which is a phrase , through the power of self-flattery , and mens ignorance in the nature of moral actions , made to be of so large and comprehensive a sense that the most wilful violations of the laws of heaven , and such which the scripture tells us do exclude from the kingdom of it , do finde ( rather than make ) friends enough to shelter themselves under the protection of them . but such a protection it is , which is neither allowed in the court of heaven , nor will ever secure the souls of men without a hearty and sincere repentance , from the arrest of divine justice ; which when it comes to call the world to an account of their actions will make no defalcations at all for the power of custom , or common practice of the world . . the impossibility of the command , or rather of obedience to it . when neither of the former pleas will effect their design , but notwithstanding the pretended necessity of humane actions , and the more than pretended common practice of the world , their consciences still fly in their faces , and rebuke them sharply for their sins , then in a a mighty rage and fury they charge god himself with tyranny in laying impossible laws upon the sons of men . but if we either consider the nature of the command , or the promises which accompany it , or the large experience of the world to the contrary , we shall easily discover that this pretence is altogether as unreasonable as either of the foregoing . for what is it that god requires of men as the condition of their future happiness which in its own nature is judged impossible ? is it for men to live soberly , righteously and godly in this world ? for that was the end of christian religion to perswade men to do so : but who thinks it impossible to avoid the occasions of intemperance , not to defraud , or injure his neighbours , or to pay that reverence and sincere devotion to god which we owe unto him ? is it to do as we would be done by ? yet that hath been judged by strangers to the christian religion a most exact measure of humane conversation ; is it to maintain an universal kindness and good will to men ? that indeed is the great excellency of our religion , that it so strictly requires it ; but if this be impossible , farewell all good nature in the world ; and i suppose few will own this charge , lest theirs be suspected . is it to be patient under sufferings , moderate in our desires , circumspect in our actions , contented in all conditions ? yet these are things which those have pretended to who never owned christianity , and therefore surely they never thought them impossible . is it to be charitable to the poor , compassionate to those in misery ? is it to be frequent in prayer , to love god above all things , to forgive our enemies as we hope god will forgive us , to believe the gospel , and be ready to suffer for the sake of christ ? there are very few among us but will say they do all these things already , and therefore surely they do not think them impossible . the like answer i might give to all the other precepts of the gospel till we come to the denying ungodliness and worldly lusts , and as to these too , if we charge men with them , they either deny their committing them , and then say they have kept the command ; or if they confess it , they promise amendment for the future ; but in neither respect can they be said to think the command impossible . thus we see their own mouths will condemn them when they charge god with laying impossible laws on mankind . but if we enquire further then into the judgements of those ( who it may be never concerned themselves so much about the precepts of christian religion , as to try whether they had any power to observe them or not ) ; nay , if we yield them more ( than , it may be , they are willing to enquire after , though they ought to do it ) viz. that without the assistance of divine grace , they can never do it : yet such is the unlimited nature of divine goodness and the exceeding riches of gods grace , that ( knowing the weakness and degeneracy of humane nature when he gave these commands to men ) he makes a large and free offer of assistance to all those who are so sensible of their own infirmity as to beg it of him . and can men then say the command is impossible when he hath promised an assistance suitable to the nature of the duty and the infirmities of men ? if it be acknowledged that some of the duties of christianity are very difficult to us now ; let us consider by what means he hath sweetned the performance of them . will not the proposal of so excellent a reward , make us swallow some more than ordinary hardships that we might enjoy it ? hath he not made use of the most obliging motives to perswade us to the practice of what he requires , by the infinite discovery of his own love , the death of his son , and the promise of his spirit ? and what then is wanting , but only setting our selves to the serious obedience of them , to make his commands not only not impossible , but easie to us ? but our grand fault is , we make impossibilities our selves where we finde none , and then we complain of them : we are first resolved not to practise the commands , and then nothing more easie than to finde fault with them : we first pass sentence , and then examine evidences ; first condemn , and then enquire into the merits of the cause . yet surely none of these things can be accounted impossible , which have been done by all those who have been sincere and hearty christians ; and god forbid we should think all guilty of hypocrisie , who have professed the christian religion from the beginning of it to this day . nay more than so , they have not only done them , but professed to have that joy and satisfaction of minde in the doing of them , which they would not exchange for all the pleasures and delights of the world . these were the men , who not only were patient , but rejoyced in sufferings ; who accounted it their honour and glory to endure any thing for the sake of so excellent a religion ; who were so assured of a future happiness by it , that they valued martyrdoms above crowns and scepters . but god be thanked , we may hope to come to heaven on easier terms than these , or else many others might never come thither , besides those who think to make this a pretence for their sin , that now when with encouragement and honour we may practise our religion , the commands of it are thought impossible by them . thus we have made good the general charge here implyed against wicked men , in that they are called fools , by examining the most plausible pretences they bring for themselves . i now come to the particular impeachment of their folly , because they make a mock at sin . and that i shall prove especially by two things : . because this argues the highest degree of wickedness . . because it betrayes the greatest weakness of judgement and want of consideration . . because it argues the highest degree of wickedness . if to sin be tolly , to make a mock at it is little short of madness . it is such a height of impiety , that few but those who are of very profligate conscienences can attain to , without a long custom in sinning . for conscience is at first modest , and starts and boggles at the appearance of a great wickedness , till it be used to it and grown familiar with it . it is no such easie matter for a man to get the mastery of his conscience ; a great deal of force and violence must be used to ones self before he does it . the natural impressions of good and evil , the fears of a deity , and the apprehensions of a future state are such curbs and checks in a sinners way , that he must first sin himself beyond all feeling of these , before he can attain to the seat of the scorners . and we may justly wonder how any should ever come thither , when they must break through all that is ingenuous and modest , all that is vertuous and good , all that is tender and apprehensive in humane nature , before they can arrive at it . they must first deny a god , and despise an immortal soul , they must conquer their own reason , and cancell the law written in their hearts , they must hate all that is serious , and yet soberly believe themselves to be no better than the beasts that perish , before men can come to make a scoff at religion , and a mock at sin . and who now could ever imagine that in a nation professing christianity , among a people whose genius enclines them to civility and religion , yea among those who have the greatest advantages of behaviour and education , and who are to give the laws of civility to the rest of the nation , there should any be found who should deride religion , make sport with their own profaneness , and make so light of nothing , as being damned ? i come not here to accuse any , and least of all those who shew so much regard of religion as to be present in the places devoted to sacred purposes ; but if there be any such here , whose consciences accuse themselves , for any degrees of so great impiety ; i beseech them by all that is dear and precious to them , by all that is sacred and serious , by the vows of their baptism , and their participation of the holy eucharist , by all the kindness of heaven which they either enjoy or hope for , by the death and sufferings of the son of god , that they would now consider how great folly and wickedness they betray in it , and what the dreadful consequence of it will be , if they do not timely repent of it . if it were a doubt ( as i hope it is not among any here ) whether the matters of religion be true or no , they are surely things which ought to be seriously thought and spoken of . it is certainly no jesting matter to affront a god of infinite majesty and power , ( and he judges every wilfull sinner to do so ) nor can any one in his wits think it a thing not to be regarded , whether he be eternally happy or miserable . methinks then among persons of civility and honour , above all others , religion might at least be treated with the respect and reverence due to the concernments of it ; that it be not made the sport of entertainments , nor the common subject of playes and comedies . for is there nothing to trifle with , but god and his service ? is wit grown so schismatical and sacrilegious , that it can please it self with nothing but holy ground ? are prophaneness and wit grown such inseparable companions , that none shall be allowed to pretend to the one , but such as dare be highly guilty of the other ? far be it from those who have but the name of christians , either to do these things themselves , or to be pleased with them that do them : especially in such times as ours of late have been , when god hath used so many wayes to make us serious if any thing would ever do it . if men had only slighted god and religion , and made a mock at sin , when they had grown wanton through the abundance of peace and plenty , and saw no severities of gods justice used upon such who did it ; yet the fault had been so great , as might have done enough to have interrupted their peace and destroyed that plenty , which made them out of the greatness of their pride and wantonness to kick against heaven : but to do it in despight of all gods judgements , to laugh in his face when his rod is upon our backs , when neither pestilence nor fire can make us more afraid of him , exceedingly aggravates the impiety , and makes it more unpardonable . when like the old germans we dance among naked swords , when men shall desie and reproach heaven in the midst of a cities ruines , and over the graves of those whom the arrows of the almighty have heaped together , what can be thought of such , but that nothing will make them serious , but eterna● misery ? and are they so sure there is n●… such thing to be feared , that they neve● think of it , but when by their execrabl● oaths they call upon god to damn them , fo● fear he should not do it time enough for them ? thus while men abuse his patience , and provoke his justice , while they trample upon his kindness , and slight his severities , while they despise his laws and mock at the breaches of them , what can be added more to their impiety ? or what can be expected by such who are guilty of it , but that god should quickly discover their mighty folly by letting them see how much they have deceived themselves , since god will not be mocked , but because of these things the wrath of god will most certainly come upon the children of disobedience . which leads to the second thing wherein this folly is seen . . which is in the weakness of judgement and want of consideration , which this betrayes in men . folly is the great unsteadiness of the mind in the thoughts of what is good and fitting to be done . it were happy for many in the world , if none should suffer in their reputation for want of wisdom , but such whom nature or some violent distemper have wholly deprived of the use of their reason and understandings : but wisdom does not lye in the rambling imaginations of mens minds ( for fools may think of the same things which wise men practise ) but in a due consideration and choice of things which are most agreeable to the end they design , supposing the end in the first place to be worthy a wise mans choice ; for i cannot yet see why the end may not be chosen as well as the means , when there are many stand in competition for our choice , and men first deliberate , and then determine which is the fittest to be pursued . but when the actions of men discover , that either they understand or regard not the most excellent end of their beings , or do those things which directly cross and thwart their own designs , or else pursue those which are mean and ignoble in themselves , we need not any further evidence of their folly , than these things discover . now that those who make a mock at sin are guilty of all these , will appear ; if we consider whom they provoke by doing so , whom they most injure , and upon what reasonable consideration they are moved to what they do . . whom they provoke by their making a mock at sin ; supposing that there is a governour of the world , who hath established laws for us to be guided by , we may easily understand , whose honour and authority is reflected on , when the violations of his laws are made nothing of . for surely if they had a just esteem of his power and soveraignty , they never durst make so bold with him , as all those do who not only commit sin themselves , but laugh at the scrupulosity of those who dare not . when dionysius changed apollos cloak , and took off the golden beard of aesculapius , with those solemn jeers of the unsuitableness of the one to the son of a beardless father ; and the much greater conveniency of a cheaper garment to the other ; it was a sign he stood not much in awe of the severity of their looks , nor had any dread at all of the greatness of their power . but although there be so infinite a disproportion between the artificial deities of the heathens , and the majesty of him who made and governs the whole world ; yet as little reverence to his power and authority is shewed by all such who dare affront him with such a mighty confidence , and bid the greatest defiance to his laws by scoffing at them . what is there , the soveraigns and princes of the earth do more justly resent , and express the highest indignation against , than to have their laws despised , their persons affronted , and their authority contemned ? and can we then imagine , that a god of infinite power and majesty , the honour of whose laws is as dear to him as his own is , should sit still unconcerned , when so many indignities are continually offered them , and never take any notice at all of them ? it is true , his patience is not to be measured by our fretfull and peevish natures , ( and it is happy for us all that it is not ) he knows the sinner can never escape his power , and therefore bears the longer with him : but yet his lenity is alwayes joyned with his wisdom and justice , and the time is coming when patience it self shall be no more . is it not then the highest madness and folly to provoke one whose power is infinitely greater than our own is , and from the severity of whose wrath we cannot secure our selves one minute of an hour ? how knowest thou , o vain man , but that in the midst of all thy mirth and jollity , while thou art boasting of thy sins , and thinkest thou canst never fill up fast enough the measure of thy iniquities , a sudden fit of an apoplexy , or the breaking of an aposteme , or any of the innumerable instruments of death , may dispatch thee hence , and consign thee into the hands of divine justice ? and wherewithall then wilt thou be able to dispute with god ? wilt thou then charge his providence with folly , and his laws with unreasonableness ? when his greatness shall affright thee , his majesty astonish thee , his power disarm thee , and his justice proceed against thee : when notwithstanding all thy bravado's here , thy own conscience shall be not only thy accuser and witness , but thy judge and executioner too : when it shall revenge it self upon thee for all the rapes and violences thou hast committed upon it here : when horror and confusion shall be thy portion , and the unspeakable anguish of a racked and tormented minde shall too late convince thee of thy folly in making a mock at that which stings with an everlasting venom . art thou then resolved to put all these things to the adventure , and live as securely as if the terrours of the almighty were but the dreams of men awake , or the fancies of weak and distempered brains ? but i had rather believe that in the heat and fury of thy lusts thou wouldst seem to others to think so , than thou either doest or canst perswade thy self to such unreasonable folly . is it not then far better to consult the tranquillity of thy mind here , ●nd the eternal happiness of it hereafter , by a serious repentance and speedy amendment of thy life , than to expose thy self for the sake of thy sensual pleasures to the fury of that god whose justice is infinite , and power irresistible ? shall not the apprehension of his excellency make thee now afraid of him ? never then make any mock at sin more , unless thou art able to contend with the almighty , or to dwell with everlasting burnings . . the folly of it is seen in considering whom the injury redounds to by mens making themselves so pleasant with their sins . do they think by their rude attempts to dethrone the majesty of heaven , or by standing at the greatest defiance , to make him willing to come to terms of composition with them ? do they hope to slip beyond the bounds of his power , by falling into nothing when they dye , or to sue out prohibitions in the court of heaven , to hinder the effects of justice there ? do they design to out-wit infinite wisdom , or to find such flaws in gods government of the world , that he shall be contented to let them go unpunished ? all which imaginations are alike vain and foolish , and only shew how easily wickedness baffles the reason of mankind , and makes them rather hope or wish for the most impossibl● things , than believe they shall ever be punished for their impieties . if the apostate spirits can by reason of their presen● restraint and expectation of future punishments be as pleasant in beholding the folli●… of men as they are malicious to suggest them , it may be one of the greatest diversions of their misery , to see how active and witty men are in contriving their own ruine . to see with what greediness they catch at every bait that is offered them , and when they are swallowing the most deadly poyson , what arts they use to perswade themselves that it is a healthful potion . no doubt , nothing can more gratifie them than to see men sport themselves into their own destruction , and go down so pleasantly to hell : when eternal flames become their first awakeners , and then men begin to be wise , when it is too late to be so : when nothing but insupportable torments can convince them that god was in earnest with them , that he would not alwayes bear the affronts of evil men , and that those who derided the miseries of another life , shall have leisure enough to repent their folly , when their repentance shall only increase their sorrow without hopes of pardon by it . . but if there were any present felicity , or any considerable advantage to be gained by this mocking at sin , and undervaluing religion , there would seem to be some kind of pretence , though nothing of true reason for it . yet that which heightens this folly to the highest degree in the last place is , that there can be no imaginable consideration thought on which might look like a plausible temptation to it . the covetous man , when he hath defrauded his neighbour , and used all kinds of arts to compass an estate , hath the fulness of his baggs to answer for him ; and whatever they may do in another world , he is sure they will do much in this . the voluptuous man hath the strong propensities of his nature , the force of temptation which lies in the charms of beauty , to excuse his unlawfull pleasures by . the ambitious man , hath the greatness of his mind , the advantage of authority , the examples of those who have been great before him , and the envy of those who condemn him , to plead for the heights he aims at . but what is it which the person who despises religion , and laughs at every thing that is serious , proposes to himself as the reason of what he does ? but alas ! this were to suppose him to be much more serious than he is , if he did propound any thing to himself as the ground of his actions . but it may be a great kindness to others , though none to himself ; i cannot imagine any , unless it may be , to make them thankfull they are not arrived to that height of folly ; or out of perfect good nature , lest they should take him to be wiser than he is . the psalmists fool despises him as much as he does religion : for he only saith it in his heart , there is no god ; but this though he dares not think there is none , yet shews him not near so much outward respect and reverence as the other does . even the atheist himself thinks him a fool , and the greatest of all other , who believes a god , and yet affronts him and trifles with him . and although the atheists folly be unaccountable , in resisting the clearest evidence of reason , yet so far he is to be commended for what he sayes , that if there be such a thing as religion , men ought to be serious in it . so that of all hands the scoffer at religion is looked on as one forsaken of that little reason , which might serve to uphold a slender reputation of being above the beasts that perish : nay , therein his condition is worse than theirs , that as they understand not religion , they shall never be punished for despising it : which such a person can never secure himself from , considering the power , the justice , the severity of that god , whom he hath so highly provoked . god grant , that the apprehension of this danger may make us so serious in the profession and practice of our religion , that we may not by slighting that , and mocking at sin , provoke him to laugh at our calamities , and mock when our fear comes ; but that by beholding the sincerity of our repentance , and the heartiness of our devotion to him , he may turn his anger away from us , and rejoyce over us to do us good . finis . luke . . but wisdom is justified of all her children . of all the circumstances of our blessed saviours appearance and preaching in the world , there is none which , to our first view and apprehension of things , seems more strange and unaccountable , than that those persons who were then thought of all others to be most conversant in the law and the prophets , should be the most obstinate opposers of him . for since he came to fulfill all the prophesies which had gone before concerning him , and was himself the great prophet foretold by all the rest , none might in humane probability have been judged more likely to have received and honoured him , than those to whom the judgement of those things did peculiarly belong ; and who were as much concern'd in the truth of them as any else could be . thus indeed it might have been reasonably expected ; and doubtless it had been so , if interest and prejudice had not had a far more absolute power and dominion over them , than they had over the rest of the people . if miracles , and prophesies , if reason and religion ; nay , if the interest of another world could have prevailed over the interest of this among them ; the jewish sanhedrin might have been some of the first converts to christianity , the scribes and pharisees had been all proselytes to christ , and the temple at jerusalem had been the first christian church . but to let us see with what a jealous eye power and interest looks on every thing that seems to offer at any disturbance of it , how much greater sway partiality and prejudice hath upon the mindes of men than true reason and religion ; and how hard a matter it is to convince those who have no minde to be convinced ; we finde none more furious in their opposition to the person of christ , none more obstinate in their infidelity as to his doctrine , than those who were at that time in the greatest reputation among them for their authority , wisdom , and knowledge . these are they , whom our saviour , as often as he meets with , either checks for their ignorance , or rebukes for their pride , or denounces woes against for their malice and hypocrisie : these are they who instead of believing in christ persecute him ; instead of following him seek to destroy him : and that they might the better compass it , they reproach and defame him , as if he had been really as bad as themselves . and although the people might not presently believe what they said concerning him , yet that they might at least be kept in suspence by it , they endeavour to fasten the blackest calumnies upon him ; and suit them with all imaginable arts to the tempers of those they had to deal with . if any appeared zealous for the present peace and prosperity of the nation ; and for paying the duty and obedience they owed to the roman power , which then govern'd them : to them he is represented as a factious and seditious person , as an enemy to caesar , as one that intended to set up a kingdom of his own , though to the ruine of his countrey : that it was nothing but ambition and vain-glory , which made him gather disciples , and preach to multitudes ; that none could foretell what the dangerous consequences of such new doctrines might be , if n●… timely suppressed , and the author of the● severely punished . thus to the prude●… and cautious , reason of state is pretende● as the ground of their enmity to chris● but to those who were impatient of th● roman yoke , and watched for any apportunity to cast it off ; they suggest th● mighty improbabilities of ever obtainin● any deliverance by a person so mean an● inconsiderable as our saviour appeare● among them : and that surely god who●… delivered their forefathers of old from a bondage not greater than theirs , by a mighty hand and out-stretched arm , did never intend the redemption of his people by one of obscure parentage , mean education , and of no interest in the world . to the great men , they need no more than bid them , behold the train of his followers , who being generally poor , the more numerous they were , the more mouths they might see open , and ready to devour the estates of those who were above them . the priests and levites they bid consider what would become of them all , if the law of moses was abrogated , by which their interest was upheld ; for if the temple fell , it was impossible for them to stand . but the grand difficulty was among the people , who began to be possessed with so high an opinion of him by the greatness of his miracles , the excellency of his doctrine , and the innocency of his conversation , that unless they could insinuate into their mindes some effectual prejudices against these , all their other attempts were like to be vain and unsuccessefull . if therefore they meet with any who were surprized by his miracles , as well as ravished by his doctrine ; when they saw him raise the dead , restore sight to the blinde , cure the deaf and the lame , and cast out devils out of possessed persons , they tell them presently that these were the common arts of impostors , and the practice of those who go about to deceive the people ; that such things were easily done by the power of magick , and assistance of the evil spirits . if any were admirers of the pharisaical rigours and austerities ( as the people generally were ) when mens religion was measured by the sowerness of their countenances , the length of their prayers , and the distance they kept from other persons ; these they bid especially beware of our saviours doctrine ; for he condemned all zeal and devotion , all mortification and strictness of life , under the pretence of pharisaical hypocrisie ; that he sunk all religion into short prayers and dull morality ; th●… his conversation was not among the persons of any reputation for piety , bu● among publicans and sinners ; that nothing extraordinary appeared in his life ; that his actions were like other mens , and his company none of the best , and his behaviour among them with too great a freedom for a person who pretended to so high a degree of holiness . thus we see the most perfect innocency could not escape the venom of malicious tongues ; but the less it enter'd , the more they were enraged , and made up what wanted in the truth of their calumnies , by their diligence in spreading them . as though their mouths indeed had been open sepulchres by the noysom vapours which came out of them ; and we may well think no less a poyson than that of asps could be under their lips , which so secretly and yet so mischievously convey'd it self into the hearts of the people . the only advantage which malice hath against the greatest virtue , is , that the greater it is , the less it takes notice of all the petty arts which are used against it ; and will not bring its own innocency so much into suspicion as to make any long apologies for it self . for , to a noble and generous spirit , assaulted rather by noyse and clamour , than any solid reason or force of argument , neglect and disdain are the most proper weapons of defence : for where malice is only impertinent and troublesom , a punctual answer seems next to a confession . but although innocency needs no defence as to it self , yet it is necessary for all the advantages it hath of doing good to mankinde , that it appear to be what it really is ; which cannot be done , unless its reputation be cleared from the malicious aspersions which are cast upon it . and from hence it was that our blessed saviour , though he thought it not worth the while to use the same diligence in the vindication of himself , which his enemies did in the defamation of him ; yet when he saw it necessary in order to the reception of his doctrine among the more ingenuous and tractable part of his auditors , he sometimes by the quickness of his replyes , sometimes by the suddenness and sharpness of his questions , and sometimes by the plain force of argument and reason , baffles his adversaries , so that though they were resolved not to be convinced , they thought it best for the time to be quiet . this was to let them see how easie it was for him to throw off their reproaches as fast as their malice could invent them ; and that it was as impossible for them by such weak attempts to obscure the reputation of his innocency , as for the spots which astronomers discern near the body of the sun , ever to eclipse the light of it . so that all those thinner mists which envy and detraction raised at his first appearance , and those grosser vapors which arose from their open enmity when he came to a greater height , did but adde a brighter lustre to his glory , when it was seen that notwithstanding all the machinations of his enemies , his innocency brake forth like the light , which shineth more and more to the perfect day . but it pleaseth god , for the tryall of mens minds so to order the matters of our religion , that as they are never so clear , but men of obstinate and perverse spirits will finde something to cavil at ; so they were never so dark and obscure in the most difficult circumstances of them , but men of unprejudiced and ingenuous minds might find enough to satisfie themselves about them . which is the main scope of our saviour in the words of the text , ( and shall be of our present discourse upon them ) but wisdom is justified of all her children . where without any further explication , by wisdom we understand the method which god useth in order to the salvation of mankinde ; by the children of wisdom , all those who were willing to attain the end by the means which god affordeth , and by justifying , not only the bare approving it , but the declaring of that approbation to the world by a just vindication of it from the cavils and exceptions of men . although the words are capable of various senses ; yet this is the most natural , and agreeable to the scope of what goes before . for there our saviour speaks of the different wayes wherein john baptist and himself appeared among the jews , in order to the same end , v. . for john baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine , and ye say , he hath a devil . a very severe devil surely , and one of the strictest orders among them , that was so far from being cast out by fasting and prayer , that these were his continual imployment ! but what could we have sooner thought than that those persons who made the devil the author of so much mortification and severity of life , should presently have entertained religion in a more free and pleasing humour ; but this would not take neither , for the son of man comes eating and drinking ; i. 〈◊〉 was remarkable for none of those rigou●… and austerities which they condemned i●… john , and applauded in the pharisees ; and then presently they censure him , as a gluttonous man , and a wine-bibber , a friend 〈◊〉 publicans and sinners , v. . i. e. the utmos●… excess that any course of life was capabl● of they presently apply to those who had no other design in all their actions , than to recommend true piety and goodness to them . so impossible it was by any means which the wisdom of heaven thought fit to use , to perswade them into any good opinion of the persons who brought the glad tidings of salvation to them : and therefore our saviour , when he sees how refractory and perverse they were , in interpreting every thing to the worse , and censuring the wayes which infinite wisdom thought fittest to reclaim them by , he tells them that it was nothing but malice and obstinacy which was the cause of it ; but if they were men of teachable spirits ( who by an usual hebraisme are called the children of wisdom ) they would see reason enough to admire , approve and justifie all the methods of divine providence for the good of mankind . for wisdom is justified of all her children . that which i mainly design to speak to from hence is , that although the wisest contrivances of heaven for the good of mankind are lyable to the unjust cavils and exceptions of unreasonable men , yet there is enough to satisfie any teachable and ingenuous minds concerning the wisdom of them . before i come more particularly to examine those which concern our present subject , viz. the life and appearance of our lord and saviour , it will take very much off from the force of them , if we consider , that thus it hath alwayes been , and supposing humane nature to be as it is , it is scarce conceivable that it should be otherwise . not that it is necessary or reasonable it should be so at all , any more than it is necessary that men should act foolishly or inconsiderately ; but as long as we must never expect to see all men either wise or pious , either to have a true judgement of things , or a love of religion ; so long we shall alwayes find there will be some , who will be quarrelling with religion when they have no minde to practise it . i speak not now of those who make a meer jest and scoff at religion ( of which our age hath so many instances ) but of a sort of men who are of a degree above the other , though farr enough short of any true and solid wisdom ; who yet are the more to be considered , because they seem to make a slender offer at reason in what they say . some pretend they are not only unsatisfied with the particular wayes of instituted religion , any further than they are subservient to their present interest ( which is the only god they worship ) but to make all sure , the foundations even of natural religion it self cannot escape their cavils and exceptions . they have found out an index expurgatorius for those impressions of a deity which are in the hearts of men ; and use their utmost arts to obscure , since they cannot extinguish those lively characters of the power , wisdom and goodness of god , which are every where to be seen in the large volume of the creation . religion is no more to them but an unaccountable fear ; and the very notion of a spiritual substance ( even of that without which we could never know what a contradiction meant ) is said to imply one . but if for quietness sake , and it may be to content their own minds as well as the world , they are willing to admit of a deity , ( which is a mighty concession from those who have so much cause to be afraid of him ) then to ease their minds of such troublesom companions as their fears are , they seek by all means to dispossess him of his government of the world , by denying his providence , and care of humane affairs . they are contented he should be cal'd an excellent being , that should do nothing , and therefore signifie nothing in the world ; or rather , then he might be styled an almighty sardanapalus , that is so fond of ease and pleasure , that the least thought of business would quite spoyl his happiness . or if the activity of their own spirits may make them think that such an excellent being may sometimes draw the curtains and look abroad into the world , then every advantage which another hath got above them , and every cross accident which befals themselves ( which by the power of self-flattery most men have learnt to call the prosperity of the wicked , and the sufferings of good men ) serve them for mighty charges against the justice of divine providence . thus either god shall not govern the world at all , or if he do , it must be upon such terms as they please and approve of , or else they will erect an high court of justice upon him , and condemn the sovereign of the world , because he could not please his discontented subjects . and as if he were indeed arraign'd at such a barr , every weak , and peevish exception shall be cryed up for evidence ; when the fullest and clearest vindications of him shall be scorn'd and contemned . but this doth not in the least argue the obnoxiousness of him who is so accused , but the great injustice of those who dare pass sentence ; where it is neither in their power to understand the reason of his actions , nor if it were , to call him in question for his proceedings with men . but so great is the pride and arrogance of humane nature , that it loves to be condemning what it cannot comprehend ; and there needs be no greater reason given concerning the many disputes in the world about divine providence , than that god is wise , and we are not , but would fain seem to be so . while men are in the dark they will be alwayes quarrelling ; and those who contend the most , do it that they might seem to others to see , when they know themselves they do not . nay , there is nothing so plain and evident , but the reason of some men is more apt to be imposed upon in it , than their senses are ; as it appeared in him who could not otherwise confute the philosophers argument against motion , but by moving before him . so that we see the most certain things in the world are lyable to the cavils of men who imploy their wits to do it ; and certainly those ought not to stagger mens faith in matters of the highest nature and consequence , which would not at all move them in other things . but at last it is acknowledged by the men who love to be called the men of wit in this age of ours , that there is a god and providence , a future state , and the differences of good and evil , but the christian religion they will see no further reason to embrace than as it is the religion of the state they live in . but if we demand what mighty reasons they are able to bring forth against a religion so holy and innocent in its design , so agreeable to the nature of god and man , so well contrived for the advantages of this and another life , so fully attested to come from god by the miracles wrought in confirmation of it , by the death of the son of god , and of such multitudes of martyrs , so certainly conveyed to us , by the unquestionable tradition of all ages since the first delivery of it ; the utmost they can pretend against it is , that it is built upon such an appearance of the son of god which was too mean and contemptible , that the doctrine of it is incosistent with the civil interests of men , and the design ineffectual for the reformation of the world. for the removal therefore of these cavils against our religion , i shall shew , . that there were no circumstances in our saviours appearance or course of life , which were unbecoming the son of god , and the design he came upon . . that the doctrine delivered by him is so far from being contrary to the civil interests of the world , that it tends highly to the preservation of them . . that the design he came upon was very agreeable to the infinite wisdom of god , and most effectual for the reformation of mankinde . for clearing the first of these , i shall consider , ( . ) the manner of our saviours appearance . ( . ) the course of his life ; and what it was which his enemies did most object against him . . the manner of our saviours appearance ; which hath been alwayes the great offence to the admirers of the pomp and greatness of the world. for when they heard of the son of god coming down from heaven , and making his progress into this lower world , they could imagine nothing less , than that an innumerable company of angels must have been dispatched before , to have prepared a place for his reception ; that all the soveraigns and princes of the world must have been summon'd to give their attendance and pay their homage to him : that their scepters must have been immediately laid at his feet , and all the kingdoms of the earth been united into one universal monarchy under the empire of the son of god : that the heavens should how down at his presence to shew their obeysance to him , the earth tremble and shake for fear at the near approaches of his majesty ; that all the clouds should clap together into one universal thunder , to welcome his appearance , and tell the inhabitants of the world what cause they had to fear him whom the powers of the heavens obey : that the sea should run out of its wonted course with amazement and horror ; and if it were possible , hide it self in the hollow places of the earth : that the mountains should shrink in their heads , to fill up the vast places of the deep ; so that all that should be fulfilled in a literal sense , which was foretold of the comeing of the messias , that every valley should be filled , and every mountain and hill brought low ; the crooked made straight , and the rough wayes smooth , and all flesh see the salvation of god. yea , that the sun for a time should be darken'd , and the moon withdraw her light , to let the nations of the earth understand that a glory infinitely greater than theirs did now appear to the world. in a word , they could not imagine the son of god could be born without the pangs and throws of the whole creation ; that it was as impossible for him to appear , as for the sun in the firmament to disappear , without the notice of the whole world. but when instead of all this pomp and grandeur he comes incognito into the world , instead of giving notice of his appearance to the potentates of the earth , he is only discovered to a few silly shepheards and three wise men of the east ; instead of choosing either rome or hierusalem for the place of his nativity , he is born at bethleem a mean and obscure village : instead of the glorious and magnificent palaces of the east or west , which were at that time so famous ; he is brought forth in a stable , where the manger was his cradle , and his mother the only attendant about him : who was her self none of the great persons of the court , nor of any fame in the countrey ; but was only rich in her genealogy , and honourable in her pedigree . and according to the obscurity of his birth was his education too : his youth was not spent in the imperial court at rome , nor in the schools of philosophers at athens , nor at the feet of the great rabbies at jerusalem : but at nazareth , a place of mean esteem among the jews , where he was remarkable for nothing so much as the vertues proper to his age , modesty , humility and obedience . all which he exercises to so high a degree , that his greatest kindred and acquaintance were mightily surprized when at years of age , he began to discover himself by the miracles which he wrought , and the authority which he spake with . and although the rayes of his divinity began to break forth through the clouds he had hitherto disguised himself in , yet he persisted still in the same course of humility and self-denyal ; taking care of others to the neglect of himself ; feeding others by a miracle , and fasting himself , to one : shewing his power in working miraculous cures , and his humility in concealing them : conversing with the meanest of the people , and choosing such for his apostles , who brought nothing to recommend them but innocency and simplicity . who by their heats and ignorance were continual exercises of his patience in bearing with them , and of his care and tenderness in instructing them . and after a life thus led with such unparallel'd humility , when he could adde nothing more to it by his actions , he doth it by his sufferings ; and compleats the sad tragedy of his life by a most shamefull and ignominious death . this is the short and true account of all those things which the admirers of the greatness of this world think mean and contemptible in our saviours appearance here on earth . but we are now to consider whether so great humility were not more agreeable with the design of his coming into the world , than all that pomp and state would have been which the son of god might have more easily commanded than we can imagine . he came not upon so mean an errand , as to dazzle the eyes of mankinde with the brightness of his glory , to amaze them by the terribleness of his majesty , much less to make a shew of the riches and gallantry of the world to them : but he came upon far more noble and excellent designs , to bring life and immortality to light , to give men the highest assurance of an eternal happiness and misery in the world to come , and the most certain directions for obtaining the one , and avoiding the other : and in order to that , nothing was judged more necessary by him , than to bring the vanities of this world out of that credit and reputation they had gained among foolish men . which he could never have done , if he had declaimed never so much against the vanity of worldly greatness , riches and honours , if in the mean time himself had lived in the greatest splendour and bravery . for the enjoyning then the contempt of this world to his disciples in hopes of a better , would have looked like the commendation of the excellency of fasting at a full meal , and of the conveniencies of poverty by one who makes the greatest haste to be rich . that he might not therefore seem to offer so great a contradiction to his doctrine by his own example ; he makes choice of a life so remote from all suspicion of designs upon this world , that though the foxes had holes , and the birds of the air had nests , yet the son of man , who was the lord and heir of all things , had not whereon to lay his head . and as he shewed by his life how little he valued the great things of the world , so he discovered by his death how little he feared the evil things of it : all which he did with a purpose and i●tention to rectifie the great mistakes 〈◊〉 men as to these things : that they mig●… no longer venture an eternal happiness f●… the splendid and glorious vanities of t●… present life ; nor expose themselves to t●… utmost miseries of another world , to avo●… the frowns of this . from hence procee●ed that generous contempt of the worl● which not only our saviour himself , b● all his true disciples of the first ages 〈◊〉 christianity were so remarkable for ; 〈◊〉 let others see they had greater things i●… their eye than any here , the hopes of whi●● they would not part with for all that th● world thinks great or desirable . so th●… considering the great danger most men ar● in , by too passionate a love of these thing● and that universal and infinite kindne●… which our saviour had to the souls 〈◊〉 men ; there was nothing he could discover it more in as to his appearance in the world , than by putting such an affro●… upon the greatness and honour of it , as he did by so open a neglect of it in his life , and despising it in his death and sufferings . and who now upon any pretence of reason dare entertain the meaner apprehensious of our blessed saviour , because he appeared without the pomp and greatness of the world , when the reason of his doing so was , that by his own humility and self-denyal he might shew us the way to an eternal happiness ? which he well knew how very hard it would be for men to attain to , who measure things not according to their inward worth and excellency , but the splendour and appearance which they make to the world : who think nothing great but what makes them gazed upon ; nothing desireable but what makes them flatter'd . but if they could be once perswaded how incomparably valuable the glories of the life to come are above all the gayeties and shews of this ; they would think no condition mean or contemptible , which led to so great an end ; none happy or honourable which must so soon end in the grave , or be changed to eternal misery . and that we might entertain such thoughts as these are , not as the melancholy effects of discontent and disappointments , but as the serious result of our most deliberate enquiry into the value of things , was the design of our saviour in the humility of his appearance , and of that excellent doctrine which he recommended to the world by it . were i to argue the case with philosophers , i might then at large shew from the free acknowledgements of the best and most experienced of them , that nothing becomes so much one who designs to recommend vertue to the world , as a reall and hearty contempt of all the pomp of it , and that the meanest condition proceeding from such a principle is truely and in it self more honourable , than living in the greatest splendour imaginable . were i to deal with the jews , i might then prove , that as the prophecyes concerning the messia● speak of great and wonderfull effects of his coming , so that they should be accomplished in a way of suffering and humility . but since i speak to christians , and therefore to those who are perswaded of the great kindness and love of our saviour in coming into the world , to reform it , and that by convincing men of the truth and excellency of a future state , no more need be said to vindicate the appearance of him from that meanness and contempt , which the pride and ambition of vain men is apt to cast upon it . . but not onely our saviours manner of appearance , but the manner of his conversation gave great offence to his enemies , viz. that it was too free and familiar among persons who had the meanest reputation , the publicans and sinners ; and in the mean time declaimed against the strictest observers of the greatest rigours and austerities of life . and this no doubt was one great cause of the mortal hatred of the pharisees against him , though least pretended , that even thereby they might make good that charge of hypocrisie which our saviour so often draws up against them . and no wonder , if such severe rebukes did highly provoke them , since they found this so gainfull and withall so easie a trade among the people , when with a demure look and a sowre countenance they could cheat and defraud their brethren ; and under a specious shew of devotion could break their fasts by devouring widows houses , and end their long prayers to god with acts of the highest injustice to their neighbours . as though all that while , they had been only begging leave of god to do all the mischief they could to their brethren . it is true , such as these were , our saviour upon all occasions speaks against with the greatest sharpness , as being the most dangerous enemies to true religion : and that which made men whose passion was too strong for their reason abhorr the very name of religion , when such baseness was practised under the profession of it . when they saw men offer to compound with heaven for all their injustice and oppression , with not a twentieth part of what god challenged as his due ; they either thought religion to be a meer device of men , or that these mens hypocrisie ought to be discovered to the world. and therefore our blessed saviour , who came with a design to retrieve a true spirit of religion among men , findes it first of all necessary to unmask those notorious hypocrites , that their deformities being discovered , their wayes as well as their persons might be the better understood and avoided . and when he saw by the mighty opinion they had of themselves , and their uncharitableness towards all others , how little good was to be done upon them , he seldom vouchsafes them his presence ; but rather converses with those who being more openly wicked were more easily convinced of their wickedness , and perswaded to reform . for which end alone it was that he so freely conversed with them , to let them see there were none so bad , but his kindness was so great to them , that he was willing to do them all the good he could : and therefore this could be no more just a reproach to christ , that he kept company sometimes with these , than it is to a chyrurgeon to visit hospitals , or to a physician to converse with the sick . . but when they saw that his greatness did appear in another way , by the authority of his doctrine , and the power of his miracles , then these wise and subtle men apprehend a further reach and design in all his actions : viz. that his low condition was a piece of popularity , and a meer disguise to ensnare the people , the better to make them in love with his doctrine , and so by degrees to season them with principles of rebellion and disobedience : hence came all the clamors of his being an enemy to caesar , and calling himself , the king of the jewes , and of his design to erect a kingdom of his own , all which they interpret in the most malicious though most unreasonable sense . for nothing is so politick as malice and ill will is ; for that findes designs in every thing ; and the more contrary they are to all the protestations of the persons concerned , the deeper that suggests presently they are laid , and that there is the more cause to be afraid of them . thus it was in our blessed saviours case ; it was not the greatest care used by him to shew his obedience to the authority he lived under , it was not his most solemn disavowing having any thing to do with their civil interests , not the severe checks he gave his own disciples for any ambitious thoughts among them , not the recommending the doctrine of obedience to them , nor the rebuke he gave one of his most forward disciples for offering to draw his sword in the rescue of himself , could abate the fury and rage of his enemies , but at last they condemn the greatest teacher of the duty of obedience as a traytor , and the most unparallel'd example of innocency as a malefactor . but though there could be nothing objected against the life and actions of our blessed saviour , as tending to sedition and disturbance of the civil peace , yet that , these men ( who were inspired by malice , and prophesied according to their own interest ) would say , was because he was taken away in time , before his designs could be ripe for action , but if his doctrine tended that way , it was enough to justifie their proceedings against him . so then , it was not what he did , but what he might have done : not treason but convenience which made them take away the life of the most innocent person : but if there had been any taint in his doctrine that way , there had been reason enough in such an age of faction and sedition to have used the utmost care to prevent the spreading it . but so far is this from the least ground of probability that it is not possible to imagine a religion which aims less at the present particular interests of the embracers of it , and more at the publick interests of princes than christianity doth , as it was both preached and practised by our saviour and his apostles . and here we have cause to lament the unhappy fate of religion when it falls under the censure of such who think themselves the masters of all the little arts whereby this world is governed . if it teaches the duty of subjects , and the authority of princes , if it requires obedience to laws , and makes mens happiness or misery in another life in any measure to depend upon it ; then religion is suspected to be a meer trick of state , and an invention to keep the world in awe , whereby men might the better be moulded into societies , and preserved in them . but if it appear to inforce any thing indispensably on the consciences of men , though humane laws require the contrary ; if they must not forswear their religion , and deny him whom they hope to be saved by , when the magistrate calls them to it , then such half-witted men think that religion is nothing but a pretence to rebellion , and conscience only an obstinate plea for disobedience . but this is to take it for granted that there is no such thing as religion in the world ; for if there be , there must be some inviolable rights of divine soveraignty acknowledged , which must not vary according to the diversity of the edicts and laws of men . but supposing the profession and practice of the christian religion to be allowed inviolable , there was never any religion , nay , never any inventions of the greatest politicians , which might compare with that for the preservation of civil societies . for this in plain and express words tells all the owners of it , that they must live in subjection and obedience ; not only for wrath , but for conscience sake ; that they who do resist receive unto themselves damnation , and that because whosoever resisteth the power , resisteth the ordinance of god. than which it is impossible to conceive arguments of greater force to keep men in obedience to authority ; for he that only obeys because it is his interest to do so , will have the same reason to disobey when there is an apprehension that may make more for his advantage . but when the reason of obedience is derived from the concernments of another life , no hopes of interest in this world can be thought to ballance the loss which may come by such a breach of duty in that to come . so that no persons do so dangerously undermine the foundations of civil government , as those who magnifie that to the contempt of religion ; none so effectually secure them as those who give to god the things that are gods , and by doing so , are obliged to give to caesar the things that are caesars . this was the doctrine of christianity as it was delivered by the first author of it ; and the practice was agreeable , as long as christianity preserved its primitive honour in the world . for , so far were men then from making their zeal for religion a pretence to rebellion , that though christianity were directly contrary to the religions then in vogue in the world , yet they knew of no other way of promoting it , but by patience , humility , meekness , prayers for their persecutors , and tears when they saw them obstinate . so far were they then from fomenting suspicions and jealousies concerning the princes and governours they lived under , that though they were generally known to be some of the worst of men as well as of princes , yet they charge all christians in the strictest manner , as they loved their religion and the honour of it , as they valued their souls and the salvation of them , that they should be subject to them . so far were they then from giving the least encouragement to the usurpations of the rights of princes under the pretence of any power given to a head of the church : that there is no way for any to think they meant it , unless we suppose the apostles such mighty politicians , that it is because they say nothing at all of it ; but on the contrary , bid every soul be subject to the higher powers ; though an apostle , evangelist , prophet , whatever he be , as the fathers interpret it . yea so constant and uniform was the doctrine and practice of obedience in all the first and purest ages of the christian church , that no one instance can be produced of any usurpation of the rights of princes under the pretence of any title from christ , or any disobedience to their authority , under the pretence of promoting christianity , through all those times wherein christianity the most flourished , or the christians were the most persecuted . and happy had it been for us in these last ages of the world , if we had been christians on the same terms which they were in the primitive times ; then there had been no such scandals raised by the degeneracy of men upon the most excellent and peaceable religion in the world , as though that were unquiet and troublesome , because so many have been so who have made shew of it . but let their pretences be never so great to infallibility on one side , and to the spirit on the other , so far as men encourage faction and disobedience , so far they have not the spirit of christ and christianity , and therefore are none of his . for he shewed his great wisdom in contriving such a method of saving mens souls in another world , as tended most to the preservation of the peace and quietness of this ; and though this wisdom may be evil spoken of by men of restless and unpeaceable minds , yet it will be still justified by all who have heartily embraced the wisdom which is from above , who are pure and peaceable as that wisdom is , and such , and only such are the children of it . . i come to shew , that the design of christs appearance was very agreeable to the infinite wisdom of god ; and that the means were very suitable and effectual for carrying on of that design for the reformation of mankind . . that the design it self was very agreeable to the infinite wisdom of god. what could we imagine more becoming the wisdom of god , than to contrive a way for the recovery of lapsed and degenerate mankind ? who more fit to employ upon such a message as this , than the son of god ? for his coming gives the greatest assurance to the minds of men , that god was serious in the management of this design , than which nothing could be of greater importance in order to the success of it . and how was it possible he should give a greater testimony of himself , and withall of the purpose he came about , than he did when he was in the world ? the accomplishment of prophesies , and power of miracles shewed who he was ; the nature of his doctrine , the manner of his conversation , the greatness of his sufferings , shewed what his design was in appearing among men : for they were all managed with a peculiar respect to the convincing mankinde , that god was upon terms of mercy with them , and had therefore sent his son into the world , that he might not only obtain the pardon of sin for those who repent , but eternal life for all them that obey him . and what is there now we can imagine so great and desireable as this , for god to manifest hi● wisdom in ? it is true , we see a great discovery of it in the works of nature , and might do in the methods of divine providence if partiality and interest did not blinde our eyes ; but both these , though great in themselves , yet fall short of the contrivance of bringing to an eternal happiness man who had fallen from his maker , and was perishing in his own folly . yet this is that which men in the pride and vanity of their own imaginations either think not worth considering ; or consider as little as if they thought so ; and in the mean time think themselves very wise too . the jews had the wisdom of their traditions which they gloried in , and despised the son of god himself when he came to alter them . the greeks had the wisdom of their philosophy which they so passionately admired , that whatever did not agree with that , though infinitely more certain and usefull , was on that account rejected by them . the romans , after the conquest of so great a part of the world , were grown all such politicians and statesmen , that few of them could have leisure to think of another world , who were so busie in the management of this . and some of all these sorts do yet remain in the world , which ma●● so many so little think of , or admire t●…s infinite discovery of divine wisdom : nay , there are some who can mix all these together , joyning a jewis● obstinacy , with the pride and self-opinion of the greeks , to a roman unconcernedness about the matters of another life . and yet upon a true and just enquiry never any religion could be found , which could more fully satisfie the expectation of the jews , the reason of the greeks , or the wisdom of the romans , than that which was made known by christ , who was the wisdom of god , and the power of god. here the jew might find his messias come , and the promises fulfilled which related to him , here the greek might find his long and vainly looked for certainty of a life to come , and the way which leads to it , here the roman might see a religion serviceable to another world and this together . here are precepts more holy , promises more certain , rewards more desireable than ever the wit or invention of men could have attained to . here are institutions far more pious , usefull and serviceable to mankinde ; than the most admired laws of the famous legislators of greece or rome . here are no popular designs carried on , no vices indulged for the publick interest , which solon , lyourgus and plato are charged with . here is no making religion a meer trick of state , and a thing only usefull for governing the people , which numa and the great men at rome are lyable to the suspicion of . here is no wrapping up religion in strange figures and mysterious non-sense , which the aegyptians were so much given to . here is no inhumanity and cruelty in the sacrifices offer'd , no looseness and profaneness allowed in the most solemn mysteries , no worshipping of such for gods who had not been fit to live if they had been men , which were all things so commonly practised in the idolatries of the heathens . but the nature of the worship is such as the mindes of those who come to it ought to be , and as becomes that god whom we profess to serve , pure and holy , grave and serious , solemn and devout , without the mixtures of superstition , vanity or ostentation . the precepts of our religion are plain and easie to be known , very suitable to the nature of mankinde , and highly tending to the advantage of those who practise them , both in this and a better life . the arguments to perswade men are the most weighty and powerfull , and of as great importance as the love of god , the death of his son , the hopes of happiness , and the fears of eternal misery can be to men . and wherein is the contrivance of our religion defective , when the end is so desireable , the means so effectual for the obtaining of it ? . which is the next thing to be considered . there are two things which in this degenerate estate of man are necessary in order to the recovery of his happiness ; and those are repentance for sins past , and sincere obedience for the future : now both these the gospel gives men the greatest encouragements to , and therefore is the most likely to effect the design it was intended for . . for repentance for sins past . what more powerfull motives can there be to perswade men to repent , than for god to let men know that he is willing to pardon their sins upon the sincerity of their repentance , but without that , there remains nothing but a fearfull expectation of judgement , and fiery indignation ? that their sins are their follies , and therefore to repent is to grow wise : that he requires no more from men , but what every considerative man knows is fitting to be done whenever he reflects upon his actions : that there can be no greater ingratitude or disingenuity towards the son of god than to stand at defiance with god when he hath shed his blood to reconcile god and man to each other : that every step of his humiliation , every part of the tragedy of his life , every wound at his death , every groan and sigh which he utter'd upon the cross , were designed by him as the most prevailing rhetorick to perswade men to forsake their sins , and be happy : that there cannot be a more unaccountable folly , than by impenitency to lose the hopes of a certain and eternal happiness for the sake of those pleasures which every wise man is ashamed to think of : that to continue in sin with the hopes to repent , is to stab a mans self with the hopes of a cure : that the sooner men do it , the sooner they will finde their minds at ease , and that the pleasures they enjoy in forsaking their sins , are far more noble and manly than ever they had in committing them : but if none of these arguments will prevail with them , perish they must , and that unavoidably , insupportably , and irrecoverably : and if such arguments as these will not prevail with men to leave their sins , it is impossible that any should . . for holiness of life : for christ did not come into the world , and dye for us , meerly that we should repent of what is past , by denying ungodliness and worldly lusts , but that we should live soberly , righteously and godly in this present world . and what he doth expect , he hath given the greatest encouragements to perform : by the clearness of his precepts , the excellency of his own example , the promise of his grace , and the proposition of eternal rewards and punishments , whereby he takes off all the objections men are apt to make against obedience to the commands of christ : the pretence of ignorance , because his laws are so clear ; the pretence of impossibility by his own example ; the pretence of infirmity by the assistance of his grace ; the pretence of the unnecessariness of so great care of our actions by making eternal rewards and punishments to depend upon it . let us then reflect upon the whole design of the gospel , and see how admirably it is suited to the end it was intended for , to the condition of those whose good was designed by it , and to the honour of the great contriver and manager of it . and let not us by our impenitency and the unholiness of our lives , dishonour god and our saviour , reproach our religion , and condemn that by our lives which we justifie by our words . for when we have said all we can , the best and most effectual vindication of christian religion is to live according to it : but oh then how unhappy are we that live in such an age wherein it were hard to know that men were christians , unless we are bound to believe their words against the tenour and course of their actions ! what is become of the purity , the innocency , the candour , the peaceableness , the sincerity and devotion of the primitive christians ! what is become of their zeal for the honour of christ , and christian religion ! if it were the design of men , to make our religion a dishonour and reproach to the jewes , mahumetans , and heathens , could they do it by more effectual means than they have done ? who is there that looks into the present state of the christian world , could ever think that the christian religion was so incomparably beyond all others in the world ? is the now christian rome so much beyond what it was while it was heathen ? nay , was it not then remarkable in its first times for justice , sincerity , contempt of riches , and a kind of generous honesty , and who does not ( though of the same religion , if he hath any ingenuity left ) lament the want of all those things there now ? will not the sobriety of the very turks upbraid our excesses and debaucheries ? and the obstinacy of the jewes in defence and practice of their religion , condemn our coldness and indifferency in ours ? if we have then any tenderness for the honour of our religion , or any kindness for our own souls , let us not only have the name , but let us lead the lives of christians ; let us make amends for all the reproaches which our religion hath suffer'd by the faction and disobedience of some , by the oaths and blasphemies , the impieties and profaneness of others , by the too great negligence and carelesness of all , that if it be possible , christianity may appear in its true glory , which will then only be , when those who name the name of christ depart from iniquity , and live in all manner of holy conversation and godliness . finis . rom. . . for i am not ashamed of the gospel of christ ; for it is the power of god unto salvation to every one that believes , to the jew first , and also to the greek . these words are utter'd by one who was himself a remarkable instance of the truth of the doctrine contained in them , viz. of that divine power which did accompany the gospel of christ. for what can we imagine else should make him now not ashamed of the gospel of christ , who not long before was not ashamed to persecute all those who professed it ? one , whose spirit was fermented with the leaven of the pharisees , and inraged with fury against all who owned the name of christ , is of a sudden turn'd quite into another temper , to the confusion of those who employ'd him , and the amazement of them whom he designed to persecute . nay , so great was the change which was wrought in him , that from a bigot of the jewish religion he becomes an apostle of the christian , and from breathing flames against the christians , none more ready than he to undergo them for christ. if he had only given over his persecution , it might have been thought , that he had meerly run himself out of breath , and grown weary of his former fury , ( as greater persons than he did afterwards ) but to retain the same fervour of spirit in preaching christ , which he had before in opposing him , to have as great zeal for making christians , as he had for destroying them , must needs proceed from some great and unusual cause . whilest the jews thought he had too much learning and interest to become their enemy , and the christians found he had too much rage and fury to be their friend , even then when they least expected it , instead of continuing an instrument of the sanhedrin for punishing the christians , he declared himself an apostle and servant of jesus christ. and that no ordinary one neither ; for such was the efficacy of those divine words , saul , saul , why persecutest thou me , that they not only presently allay his former heat , but quicken and animate him to a greater zeal for the honour of him whom he had persecuted before . and the faster he had run when he was out of his way , the greater diligence he used when he found it , there being none of all the followers of christ who out-stript him in his constant endeavours to advance the christian religion in the world. and if an unwearied diligence to promote it , an uncessant care for preserving it , an universal concern for all who owned it , and an undaunted spirit in bearing the affronts and injuries he underwent for it , be any perswasive arguments of the love a man bears to his religion , there was never any person who made a clearer demonstration than s. paul did of the truth of his religion , and his sincerity in embracing it . for his endeavours were suitable to the greatness of his spirit , his care as large as the horizon of the sun of righteousness , his courage as great as the malice of his enemies . for he was neither afraid of the malice of the jews , or of the wisdom of the greeks , or of the power of the romans , but he goes up and down preaching the gospel in a sphere as large as his minde was , and with a zeal only parallel with his former fury . he encounter'd the jews in their synagogues , he disputed with the greeks in their most famous cities , at athens , corinth , ephesus , and elsewhere , and every-where raising some trophies to the honour of the gospel ; nothing now remained but that he should do the same at rome also . and for this he wants not spirit and resolution , for he even longed to be there , vers . . nay , he had often purposed to goe thither , but waited for a convenient opportunity , v. . but while god was pleased otherwise to dispose of him , he could not conceal the joy which he had for the ready entertainment of the christian religion by those to whom he writes , and that their faith was grown as famous as the city wherein they dwelt . v. . first , i thank my god through jesus christ , for you all , that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world : and he further manifests the greatness of his affection to them , that without ceasing he made mention of them alwayes in his prayers , v. . and among the rest of the blessings he pray'd for , for himself and them ; he was sure not to forget his coming to them , v. . not out of an ambitious and vain-glorious humour that he might be taken notice of in that great and imperial city , but that he might be instrumental in doing them service as he had done others , v. , . and to this end he tells them , what an obligation lay upon him to spread the doctrine of christ in all places and to all persons , v. . i am debtor both to the greeks and to the barbarians , to the wise and to the unwise . so that neither the wisdom of the greeks , nor the ignorance of the barbarians could hinder s. paul from discovering to them the contrivances of infinite wisdom ; and the excellent methods of divine goodness in order to mens eternal welfare . and although rome now thought it self to be the seat of wisdom , as well as empire and power , yet our apostle declares his readiness to preach the gospel there too , v. . for which he gives a sufficient reason in the words of the text ; for i am not ashamed of the gospel of christ , for it is the power of god to salvation , &c. wherein we have considerable these two things , . the apostles boldness and freeness in declaring the doctrine of christ , for i am not ashamed , &c. . the ground of it in the following words , for it is the power of god to salvation , &c. . the apostles boldness and freeness in declaring the doctrine of christ. it was neither the gallantry of the roman court , nor the splendor of the city , not the greatness of her power , or wisdom of her statesmen could make s. paul entertain the meaner opinion of the doctrine he hoped to preach among them . had christ come 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , with a great deal of pomp and state into the world , subduing kingdoms and nations under him ; had s. paul been a generall for the gospel instead of being an apostle of it , the great men of the world would then allow he had no cause to be ashamed either of his master , or of his employment . but to preach a crucified saviour among the glories and triumphs of rome , and a doctrine of so much simplicity and contempt of the world among those who were the masters of it , and manag'd it with so much art and cunning ; to perswade them to be followers of christ in a holy life , who could not be like the gods they worship'd , unless they were guilty of the greatest debaucheries , seems to be an employment so lyable to the greatest scorn and contempt , that none but a great and resolved spirit would ever undertake it . for when we consider after so many hundred years profession of christianity , how apt the greatness of the world is to make men ashamed of the practice of it ; and that men aim at a reputation for wit by being able to abuse the religion they own ; what entertainment might we then think our religion met with among the great men of the age it was first preached in , when it not only encounter'd those weaker weapons of scoffs and raillery , but the strong holds of interest and education ? if our religion now can hardly escape the bitter scoffs , and profane jefts of men who pawn their souls to be accounted witty , what may we think it suffer'd then , when it was accounted a part of their own religion to despise and reproach ours ? if in the age we live in , a man may be reproached for his piety and virtue , that is , for being really a christian , when all profess themselves to be so , what contempt did they undergo in the first ages of the christian world , when the very name of christian was thought a sufficient brand of infamy ? and yet such was the courage and magnanimity of the primitive christians , that what was accounted most mean and contemptible in their religion , viz. their believing in a crucified saviour , was by them accounted the matter of their greatest honour and glory . for though s. paul only saith here that he was not ashamed of the gospel of christ , yet elsewhere he explains that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is contained in these words , when he saith , god forbid that i should glory in any thing , save in the cross of christ , by whom the world is crucifyed to me , and i unto the world. gal. . . i. e. although he could not but be sensible how much the world despised him , and his religion together , yet that was the great satisfaction of his minde , that his religion had enabled him to despise the world as much . for neither the pomp and grandeur of the world , nor the smiles and flatteries of it , no nor its frowns and severities could abate any thing of that mighty esteem and value which he had for the christian religion . for in his own expression , he accounted all things else but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of christ jesus his lord , phil. . . which words are not spoken by one who was in despair of being taken notice of for any thing else , and therefore magnifies the profession he was engaged in ; but by a person as considerable as most of the time and nation he lived in both for his birth and education . so that his contempt of the world was no sullen and affected severity , but the issue of a sober and impartial judgement ; and the high esteem he professed of christianity was no fanatick whimsey , but the effect of a diligent enquiry , and the most serious consideration . and that will appear , . by the grounds and reasons which s. paul here gives why he was not ashamed of the gospel of christ , . from the excellent end it was designed for , and that is no less than salvation . . from the effectualness of it in order to that end , it is the power of god to salvation . . from the necessity of believing the gospel by all who would attain that end ; to every one that believes , the jew first , and also to the greek . . from the excellent end it was designed for , the recovery and happiness of the souls of men , both which are implyed in the term salvation . for , considering the present condition of humane nature , as it is so far sunk beneath it self , and kept under the power of unruly passions ; whatever tends to make it happy , must do it by delivering it from all those things which are the occasions of its misery . so that whatever religion should promise to make men happy , without first making them vertuous and good , might on that very account be justly suspected of imposture . for the same reasons which make the acts of any religion necessary , viz. that we may please that god who commands and governs the world , must make it necessary for men to do it , in those things which are far more acceptable to him than all our sacrifices of what kind soever , which are the actions of true vertue and goodness . if then that accusation had been true , which celsus and julian . charged christianity with , viz. that it indulged men in the practice of vice , with the promise of a future happiness notwithstanding ; i know nothing could have render'd it more suspicious to be a design to deceive mankinde . but so far is it from having the least foundation of truth in it , that as there never was any religion which gave men such certain hopes of a future felicity , and consequently more encouragement to be good , so there was none ever required it on those strict and severe terms which christianity doth . for there being two grand duties of men in this world , either towards god in the holiness of their hearts and lives , or towards their brethren , in a peaceable carriage among men ( which cannot be without justice and sobriety ) both these are enforced upon all christians , upon no meaner terms than the unavoidable loss of all the happiness our religion promises . follow peace with all men , and holiness , without which no man shall see the lord. heb. . . this is then the grand design of christianity , to make men happy in another world , by making them good and vertuous in this : it came to reform this world that it might people another ; so to purifie the souls of men , as to make them meet to enjoy the happiness designed for them . this is that great salvation which the gospel brings to the world , heb. . . and thence it is cal'd the word of salvation , acts . . the way of salvation , acts . . the gospel of salvation , ephes. . . so that though christianity be of unspeakable advantage to this world , there being no religion that tends so much to the peace of mens minds , and the preservation of civil societies as this doth ; yet all this it doth by way of subordination to the great end of it , which is the promoting mens eternal happiness . and the more we consider the vast consequence and importance of this end to mankinde , the greater reason we shall finde that s. paul had why he should not be ashamed of the gospel of christ. for can we imagine any end more noble that any doctrine can aim at than this ? supposing the common principles of all religion to be true , viz. the being of god , and immortality of our souls , there can be nothing more becoming that god to discover , or those souls to be imploy'd about , than the way to a blessed immortality . and if we admire those discourses of the heathen philosophers , wherein they speak more darkly and obscurely concerning those things , what admiration doth the gospel deserve , which hath brought life and immortality to light ? if we commend the vertuous heathens , who according to those short and obscure notices which they had of god and themselves , sought to make the world any thing the better for their being in it , what infinitely greater esteem do those blessed apostles deserve , who accounted not their lives dear to them that they might make even their enemies happy ? if those mens memories be dear to us who sacrifice their lives and fortunes for the sake of the countrey they belong to , shall not those be much more so who have done it for the good of the whole world ? such who chearfully suffer'd death while they were teaching men the way to an eternal life , and who patiently endured the flames if they might but give the greater light to the world by them . such who did as far out-goe any of the admired heroes of the heathens , as the purging the world from sin is of greater consequence than cleansing an augaean stable from the filth of it , and rescuing men from eternal flames is a more noble design than clearing a countrey from pyrats and robbers . nay , most of the heathen gods who were so solemnly worshipped in greece and at rome , owed their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to such slender benefits to mankinde ; that sure the world was very barbarous or hugely gratefull when they could think them no less than gods who found out such things for men : if a smiths forge , and a womans distaffe , if teaching men the noble arts of fighting and cheating one another were such rare inventions , that they only became some of the most celebrated deities which the grave and demure romans thought fit to worship ; sure s. paul had no cause to be ashamed of his religion among them , who had so much reason to be ashamed of their own ; since his design was to perswade them out of all the vanities and fooleries of their idolatrous worship , and to bring them to the service of the true and ever living god , who had discovered so much goodness to the world in making his son a propitiation for the sins of it . and was not this a discovery infinitely greater and more suitable to the nature of god , than any which the subtilty of the greeks , or wisdom of the romans could ever pretend to concerning any of their deities ? thus we see the excellent end of our religion was that which made s. paul so far from being ashamed of it ; and so it would do all us too , if we did understand and value it as s. paul did . but it is the great dishonour of too many among us , that they are more ashamed of their religion than they are of their sins . if to talk boldly against heaven , to affront god in calling him to witness their great impieties by frequent oaths , to sin bravely and with the highest confidence , to mock at such who are yet more modest in their debaucheries , were not to be ashamed of the gospel of christ , we might finde s. pauls enough in the age we live in , and it would be a piece of gallantry to be apostles . but this is rather the utmost endeavour to put religion out of countenance , and make the gospel it self blush and be ashamed , that ever such bold-faced impieties should be committed by men under the profession of it , as though they believed nothing so damnable as repentance and a holy life , and no sin so unpardonable as modesty in committing it . but to use s. pauls language when he had been describing such persons h●mself , heb. . . we are perswaded better things of you , and things that accompany that salvation the gospel was designed for , though we thus speak . for certainly nothing can argue a greater meanness of spirit , than while wicked and profane persons are not ashamed of that which unavoidably tends to their ruine , any should be shye of the profession and practice of that which conduces to their eternal happiness . what is become of all that magnanimity and generous spirit which the primitive christians were so remarkable for , if while some are impudent in sinning , others are ashamed of being or doing good ? if we have that value for our immortal souls , and a future life , which we ought to have , we shall not trouble our selves much with the atheistical scoffs and drollery of prosane persons , who while they deride and despise religion , do but laugh themselves into eternal misery . and thus much for the first ground of s. pauls confidence , viz. the excellent end the gospel was designed for . . the effectualness of it in order to that end . it is the power of god to salvation . wherein two things are implyed . . the inefficacy of any other doctrine for that end . . the effectualness of the gospel in order to it . . the inefficacy of any other doctrine for this end of promoting the eternal salvation of mankinde . if the world had been acquainted with any doctrine before which had been sufficient for the purposes the gospel was designed for , there would have been no such necessity of propagating it among men ; nor had there been reason enough to have justified the apostles in exposing themselves to so great hazards for the preaching of it . if the notion of an eternal god and providence , without the knowledge of a saviour , had been sufficient to reform the world , and make men happy ; it had not been consistent with the wisdom or goodness of god to have imploy'd so many persons , with the loss of their lives , to declare the doctrine of christ to the world. so that if christianity be true , it must be thought necessary to salvation , for the necessity of it was declared by those who were the instruments of confirming the truth of it . i meddle not with the case of those particular persons who had no means or opportunity to know gods revealed will , and yet from the principles of natural religion did reform their lives , in hopes of a future felicity ( if any such there were ) but whether there were not a necessity of such a doctrine as the gospel is to be discover'd to the world , in order to the reformation of it ? for some very few persons either through the goodness of their natures , the advantage of their education , or some cause of a higher nature , may have led more vertuous lives than others did ; but it is necessary , that what aims at the general good of mankinde , must be suited to the capacities of all , and enforced with arguments which may prevail on any but the most obstinate and wilfull persons . but when we consider the state of the world at that time when christianity was first made known to it , we may easily see how insufficient the common principles of religion were , from working a reformation in it , when notwithstanding them mankinde was so generally lapsed into idolatry and vice , that hardly any can be instanced in , in the heathen world , who had escaped both of them . and there was so near an affinity between both these , that they who were ingaged in the rites of their idolatry , could hardly keep themselves free from the intanglements of vice ; not only because many of their villanies were practised as part of their religion , ( and there was little hopes certainly of their being good , who could not be religious without being bad ) but because the very gods they worship'd were represented to be as bad as themselves . and could they take any better measure of vertue , than from the actions of those whom they supposed to have so divine an excellency in them , as to deserve their adoration ? so that if there were a design of planting wickedness in the world ( which need not be , for it grows fast enough without it ) it could not be done more successefully than by worshipping those for gods , who did such things which good men would abhorr to think of . and yet this was the state of the world then , when the gospel was preached , and not only of the more rude and barbarous nations , but of the most civilized and knowing people , as the romans themselves ; as our apostle at large proves in the remainder of this chapter , wherein he shews , that though they had means enough of knowing the eternal god and providence , yet they were so fallen into idolatry , and the most vicious practises , that there was no means of recovering them , but by a fuller discovery both of the justice and goodness of god. i know it will be here objected , that though the generality of men were bad then ( as when were they otherwise ) yet the heathens had a kind of apostles among them , viz. the philosophers , who sought to amend the manners of men by the moral instructions they gave them , so that if men were bad , it was not for want of good counsel , but for not observing it , which is all ( they say ) we have to say for our selves , when we are charged with the great debaucheries of the christian world . to which i answer , that our business is not now to enquire whether there hath not been an incomparably greater advantage to the world by christianity , in the reforming mens lives , than ever was by any of the heathen morals ; but whether these , taking them in the fairest dress , were so sufficient for the bringing men to eternal happiness , that there needed not any such doctrine as christianity be published for that end ? and there are two great things we may charge the best of their discourses with an insufficiency in , for the accomplishment of this end , which are certainty , and motives , or the want of arguments to believe , and encouragements to practise . . they were destitute of sufficient certainty ; for what a man ventures his eternal state upon , he ought to be well assured of the truth of it . but how was it possible for the world to be reformed by such wise apostles ( if they must be call'd so ) who were perpetually disputing among themselves about those things which were the most necessary foundations of all vertue and religion ? as though the best arguments they had to prove their souls immortal , was because their disputes about them were so . and those seemed among them to gain the greatest reputation for wit , who were best able to dispute against common principles ; and they managed their business with greatest advantage , who only shewed the weakness of others principles , but established none of their own ; which was an unavoidable consequence of the way they proceeded in , for offering at no such way of proof as christianity doth , they rather taught men to dispute , than to live eternally . besides , their discourses were too subtle and intricate for the common capacities of men ; how long might a man live before an entelechia would make him know the nature of his soul the better , or an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 perswade him to believe its immortality ? insomuch that it is hard to determine , whether the arguments used by them , did not rather hinder assent , than perswade to it ; and it seems probable that the honest minded , illiterate heathens believed those things more firmly than the greatest philosophers . for plain truths lose much of their weight , when they are ratified into subtilties , and their strength is impaired when they are spun into too fine a thread . the arguments which must prevail with mankinde , must be plain and evident , easie and yet powerfull . the natural sense of good and evil in men is oft-times dull'd by disputes , and only awaken'd by a powerfull representation of an infinite being , and a future judgement : and that by such a way of proof as all persons are equal judges of the truth and validity of it ; such as the resurrection of christ is in the gospel . . but let us suppose the arguments certain and suitable , yet what sufficient motives or encouragements could they give to lead a holy and vertuous life , who after all their endeavours to perswade others , remained so uncertain themselves as to a future happiness ? so tully tells us of socrates himself when he was just dying , that he told his friends , that only the gods knew whether it was fitter for men to live or die , but he thought no man did . and although some would excuse this as his usual way of disputing , yet of all times one would think it was fittest for him then to declare his minde in the most express terms , not only for the full vindication of himself , but for the comfort and encouragement of his friends . we are sure , christianity proceeds on those terms , that if a future happiness be supposed uncertain , it declares expresly there can be no sufficient reason given for men to part with the conveniencies of this present life ; nay , it supposes the best men to be the most miserable of all others , if there be not a future reward , cor. . . — . again , what probability was there they should ever perswade the world to vertue and goodness , when the severest of the philosophers , made it lye in things so repugnant to humane nature , as goodness is agreeable to it . as when they made it an equal fault for a man to be angry , and to murder his soveraign ; and that all passions are to be destroy'd , that pain and grief are nothing , that vertue in all conditions is a sufficient reward to it self . which are so contrary to the common sense of mankind , that the only way to perswade men to believe them , is first to perswade them they are not men . so that he was certainly the wisest man among the heathens , who concluded , that we ought to expect a higher master to teach us these things , and to acquaint us with the happiness of a future life . and hereby an answer may be given to porphyries grand objection against christian religion , viz. if it were so necessary for the good of mankinde , why was it so long before it was discovered ? because god would thereby discover the insufficiency of all the means the wit of man could finde out to reform the world , without this . that not only the jews might see the weakness of that dispensation they were under , but the gentile world might groan with an expectation of some more powerfull means to goodness than were yet among them . for when philosophy had been so long in its height , and had so little influence upon mankinde , it was time for the sun of righteousness to arise , and with the softening and healing influence of his beams to bring the world to a more vertuous temper . and that leads to the second thing implyed , which is the peculiar efficacy of the gospel for promoting mens salvation , for it is the power of god to salvation , and that will appear , by considering how many wayes the power of god is engaged in it . these three especially . . in confirmation of the truth of it . . in the admirable effects of it in the world. . in the divine assistance which is promised to those who embrace it . . in confirmation of the truth of it . for the world was grown so uncertain , as to the grand foundations of religion , that the same power was requisite now to settle the world , which was at first for the framing of it . for though the precepts of christian religion be pure and easie , holy and suitable to the sense of mankind , though the promises be great and excellent , proportionable to our wants and the weight of our business , though the reward be such that it is easier to desire than comprehend it , yet all these would but seem to baffle the more the expectations of men , unless they were built on some extraordinary evidence of divine power . and such we assert there was in the confirmation of these things to us , not only in the miraculous birth of our saviour , and that continual series of unparallel'd miracles in his life , not only in the most obliging circumstances of his death ; nor only in the large effusion of divine gifts upon his apostles , and the strange propagation of christian religion by them against all humane power ; but that which i shall particularly instance in , as the great effect of divine power , and confirmation of our religion , was his resurrection from the dead . for , as our apostle saith , rom. . . christ was declared to be the son of god with power according to the spirit of holiness , by the resurrection from the dead . no way of evidence could be more suitable to the capacities of all , than this , it being a plain matter of fact ; none ever better attested than this was , not only by the unanimous consent of all the witnesses , but by their constant adhering to the truth of it , though it cost almost all of them their lives ; and no greater evidence could be given to the world of a divine power , since both jews and gentiles agreed in this , that such a thing could not be effected but by an immediate hand of god. so far were they then from thinking a resurrection possible by the juyce of herbs , or an infusion of warm blood into the veins , or by the breath of living creatures , as the great martyr for atheism would seem from pliny to perswade us ; when yet certainly nothing can be of higher concernment to those who believe not another life , than to have try'd this experiment long ere now ; and since nothing of that nature hath ever happened since our saviours resurrection , it only lets us know what credulous men in other things the greatest infidels as to religion are . but so far were they at that time from so fond an imagination , that they readily yielded , that none but god could do it , though they seem'd to question whether god himself could do it or no. as appears by the apostles interrogation , why should it be thought a thing incredible with you , that god should raise the dead ? acts . . this was therefore judged on both sides to be a matter of so great importance , that all the disputes concerning christian religion were resolved into this , whether christ were risen from the dead ? and this the apostles urge and insist on , upon all occasions , as the great evidence of the truth of his doctrine , and this was the main part of their commission , for they were sent abroad to be witnesses of his resurrection . which was not designed by god as a thing strange and incredible to puzzle mankinde with , but to give the highest assurance imaginable to the world of the truth and importance of christianity . since god was pleased to imploy his power in so high a manner to confirm the certainty of it . . gods power was seen in the admirable effects of christian religion upon the minds of men : which was most discernable by the strange alteration it soon made in the state of the world . in judea soon after the death of christ , some of his crucifyers become christians , converts made at one sermon of s. peters , and great accessions made afterwards both in hierusalem and other places . yea in all parts of the roman empire , where the christians came , they so increased and multiplyed , that thereby it appeared that god had given a benediction to his new creation suitable to what he gave to the first . so that within the compass of not a hundred years after our saviours death , the world might admire to see it self so strangely changed from what it was . the temple at hierusalem destroy'd , and the jews under a sadder dispersion than ever , and rendred uncapable of continuing their former worship of god there : the heathen temples unfrequented , the gods derided , the oracles ceased , the philosophers puzzled , the magistrates disheartned by their fruitless cruelties , and all this done by a few christians who came and preached to the world righteousness , temperance , and a judgement to come , whereof god had given assurance to the world , by raising one jesus from the dead . and all this effected not by the power of wit and eloquence , not by the force and violence of rebellious subjects , not by men of hot and giddy brains , but by men sober , just , humble and meek in all their carriages , but withall such as might never have been heard of in the world , had not this doctrine made them famous . what could this then be imputed to less than a divine power , which by effectual and secret wayes carries on its own design against all the force and wit of men . so that the wise gamaliel , at whose feet s. paul was bred , seem'd to have the truest apprehensions of these things at that time , when he told the sanhedrin , if this counsel , or this work be of men , it will come to nought , but if it be of god , ye cannot overthrow it , least haply ye be found to fight against god. acts . , . . in the divine assistance which is promised to those who embrace it : in which respect it is properly the power of god to salvation ; and therein far beyond what the philosophers could promise to any who embraced their opinions . for , the gospel doth not only discover the necessity of a principle superiour to nature , which we call grace , in order to the fitting our souls for their future happiness , but likewise shews on what terms god is pleased to bestow it on men , viz. on the consideration of the death and passion of our lord and saviour . not by works of righteousness which we have done , but according to his mercy he saved us by the washing of regeneration , and renewing of the holy ghost , which he shed on us abundantly through christ our saviour , titus . . there being nothing in humane nature which could oblige god , to give to mankinde that assistance of his grace whereby they are enabled to work out this salvation the gospel is designed for , with fear and trembling . the whole tenor of the gospel importing a divine power which doth accompany the preaching of it , which is designed on purpose to heal the wounds , and help the weakness of our depraved and degenerate nature . through which we may be kept to salvation : but it must be through faith , pet. . . . which is the last particular of the words ; the necessity of believing the gospel in order to the partaking of the salvation promised in it ; it is the power of god to salvation to every one that believes , to the jew first , and also to the greek . an easie way of salvation , if no more were required to mens happiness but a fancy and strong opinion which they will easily call believing . so there were some in s. augustin's time , i could wish there were none in ours , who thought nothing necessary to salvation but a strong faith , let their lives be what they pleased . but this is so repugnant to the main design of christian religion , that they who think themselves the strongest believers , are certainly the weakest , and most ungrounded . for they believe scarce any other proposition in the new testament , but that whosoever believeth shall be saved . if they did believe that christ came into the world to reform it , and make it better , that the wrath of god is now revealed from heaven against all unrighteousness , as well as that the just by faith shall live , that the design of all that love of christ , which is shewn to the world , is to deliver them from the hand of their enemies , that they might serve him in righteousness and holiness all the dayes of their lives , they could never imagine , that salvation is entailed by the gospel on a mighty confidence or vehement perswasion of what christ hath done and suffered for them . and so far is s. paul from asserting this , that as far as i can see , he never meddles with a matter of that nicety , whether a single act of faith be the condition of our justification as it is distinguished from evangelical obedience , but his discourse runs upon this subject ; whether god will pardon the sins of men upon any other terms than those which are declared in the christian religion , the former he calls works , and the latter faith. i know , the subtilty of later times hath made s. paul dispute in the matter of justification , not as one bred up at the feet of gamaliel , but of the master of the sentences ; but men did not then understand their religion at all the worse because it was plain and easie ; and , it may be , if others since had understood their religion better , there would never have needed so much subtilty to explain it , nor so many distinctions to defend it . the apostle makes the same terms of justification and of falvation , for as he saith elsewhere , we are justified by faith , he saith here , the gospel is the power of god to salvation to every one that believes ; if therefore a single act of faith be sufficient for one , why not for the other also ? but if believing here be taken in a more large and comprehensive sense , as a complex act relating to our undertaking the conditions of the gospel ; why should it not be taken so in the subsequent discourse of the apostle ? for we are to observe , that s. paul in this epistle is not disputing against any sort of christians that thought to be saved by their obedience to the gospel from the assistance of divine grace ; but against those who thought the grace and indulgence of the gospel by no means necessary in order to the pardon of their sins , and their eternal happiness . two things therefore the apostle mainly designs to prove in the beginning of it : first , the insufficiency of any other way of salvation besides that offer'd by the gospel ; whether it were the light of nature which the gentiles contended for , but were far from living according to it ; or that imaginary covenant of works , which the jews fancyed to themselves ( for it will be a very hard matter to prove that ever god entred into a covenant of works with fallen man , which he knew it was impossible for him to observe ) but they were so highly opinionated of themselves , and of those legal observations which were among them , that they thought by vertue of them they could merit so much favour at gods hands , that there was no need of any other sacrifice , but what was among themselves to expiate the guilt of all their sins . and on that account they rejected the gospel , as the apostle tells us , that they being ignorant of gods righteousness , and going about to establish their own righteousness , have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of god. against these therefore the apostle proves , that if they hoped for happiness upon such strict terms , they laid only a foundation of boasting if they did all which god required , but of misery if they did not ; for then , cursed is every one that continues not in every thing written in the law to do it . i. e. if they failed in any one thing , then they must fail of all their hopes ; but such a state of perfection being impossible to humane nature ; he shews , that either all mankind must unavoidably perish , or they must be saved by the grace and favour of god , which he proves to be discovered by the gospel : and that god will now accept of a hearty and sincere obedience to his will declared by his son ; so that all those who perform that , though they live not in the nice observance of the law of moses , shal not need to fear the penalty of their sins in another life . which is the second thing he designs to prove , viz. that those who obeyed the gospel , whether jew or greek , were equally capable of salvation by it . for , saith he , is god the god of the jews only ? is he not also of the gentiles ? yes , of the gentiles also : because both jew and gentile were to be justified upon the same terms , as he proves afterwards . so that , gods justifying of us by the gospel , is the solemn declaration of himself upon what terms he will pardon the sins of men ; that is , deliver them from the penalties they have deserved by them . for the actual discharge of the person is reserved to the great day ; all the justification we have here is only declarative from god , but so as to give a right to us , by vertue whereof we are assured , that god will not only not exercise his utmost rigour , but shew all favour and kindness to those who by belief of the gospel do repent and obey . god doth now remit sin as he forbears to punish it ; he remits the sinner as he assures him by the death of christ he will not punish upon his repentance ; but he fully remits both , when he delivers the person upon the tryall of the great day , from all the penalties which he hath deserved by his sins . so that our compleat justification and salvation go both upon the same terms , and the same faith which is sufficient for one , must be sufficient for the other also . what care then ought men to take , lest by mis-understanding the notion of believing , so much spoken of as the condition of our salvation , they live in a neglect of that holy obedience which the gospel requires , and so believe themselves into eternal misery . but as long as men make their obedience necessary , though but as the fruit and effect of faith , it shall not want its reward : for those , whose hearts are purified by faith shall never be condemned for mistaking the notion of it ; and they who live as those that are to be judged according to their works , shall not miss their reward , though they do not think they shall receive it for them . but such who make no other condition of the gospel but believing , and will scarce allow that to be call'd a condition , ought to have a great care to keep their hearts sounder than their heads , for their only security will lye in this , that they are good though they see no necessity of being so . and such of all others i grant have reason to acknowledge the irresistible power of divine grace , which enables them to obey the will of god against the dictates of their own judgements . but thanks be to god , who hath so abundantly provided for all the infirmities of humane nature , by the large offers of his grace , and assistance of his spirit , that though we meet with so much opposition without , and so much weakness within , and so many discouragements on every side of us ; yet if we sincerely apply our selves to do the will of god , we have as great assurance as may be , that we shall be kept by the power of god through faith unto salvation . finis . hebr. . . how shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation ? when the wise and eternal counsels of heaven concerning the salvation of mankinde by the death of the son of god , were first declared to the world by his own appearance and preaching in it ; nothing could be more reasonably expected , than that the dignity of his person , the authority of his doctrine , and the excellency of his life , should have perswaded those whom he appeared among , to such an admiration of his person , and belief of his doctrine , as might have led them to an imitation of him in the holiness of his life and conversation . for if either the worth of the person , or the importance of the message might prevail any thing towards a kinde and honourable reception among men ; there was never any person appeared in any degree comparable to him , never any message declared which might challenge so welcome an entertainment from men , as that was which he came upon . if to give mankinde the highest assurance of a state of life and immortality , if to offer the pardon of sin , and reconciliation with god upon the most easie and reasonable terms , if to purge the degenerate world from all its impurities by a doctrine as holy as the author of it ; were things as becoming the son of god to reveal , as the sons of men to receive : nothing can be more unaccountable than that his person should be despised , his authority slighted , and his doctrine contemned . and that by those whose interest was more concerned in the consequence of these things , than himself could be in all the affronts and injuries he underwent from men : for the more the indignities , the greater the shame , the sharper the sufferings which he did undergo , the higher was the honour and glory which he was advanced to : but the more obliging the instances of his kindness were , the greater the salvation that was tendered by him , the more prevailing the motives were for the entertainment of his doctrine , the more exemplary and severe will the punishment be of all those who reject it . for it is very agreeable to those eternal laws of justice by which god governs the world , that the punishment should arise proportionably to the greatness of the mercies despised : and therefore although the scripture be very sparing in telling us what the state of those persons shall be in another life who never heard of the gospel ; yet for those who do , and despise it , it tells us plainly , that an eternal misery is the just desert of those to whom an eternal happiness was offered , and yet neglected by them . and we are the rather told of it , that men may not think it a surprize in the life to come ; or that if they had known the danger , they would have escaped it ; and therefore our blessed saviour , who never mentioned punishment but with a design to keep men from it , declares it frequently , that the punishment of those persons and places would be most intolerable , who have received , but not improved the light of the gospel : and that it would be more tolerable for the persons who had offer'd violence to nature , and had hell-fire burning in their hearts by their horrid impurities , than for those who heard the doctrine , and saw the miracles of christ , and were much the worse , rather than any thing the better for it . but lest we should think that all this black scene of misery was only designed for those who were the actors in that dolefull tragedy of our saviours sufferings : we are told by those who were best able to assure us of it , that the same dismal consequences will attend all the affronts of his doctrine , as if they had been offer'd to his own person . for it is nothing but the common flattery and self-deceit of humane nature , which makes any imagine , that though they do not now either believe or obey the gospel ; they should have done both , if they had heard our saviour speak as never man spake , and seen him do what never man did : for the same disposition of minde which makes them now slight that doctrine which is delivered to them by them that heard him , would have made them slight the person as well as the doctrine , if they had heard it from himself . and therefore it is but reasonable that the same punishment should belong to both ; especially since god hath provided so abundantly for the assurance of our faith , by the miraculous and powerfull demonstration of that divine spirit which did accompany those who were the first publishers of this doctrine to the world . and therefore the author of this epistle , after he hath in the words of the text declared , that it is impossible to escape , if we neglect the great salvation offered us by the gospel ; in the following words he gives us that account of it , that at first it began to be spoken by the lord , and was confirmed to us by them that heard him : god also bearing them witness both with signs and wonders , and divers miracles , and gifts of the holy ghost , according to his own will. so that the miraculous gifts of the holy ghost , falling upon the apostles , and the many signs and wonders which were wrought by them , were the great testimony of god to the world , that these were the persons imploy'd by himself to declare that doctrine whereon the eternal salvation of mankinde did depend . and since we have so lately acknowledg'd the truth of this testimony which god gave to the apostles , by the solemn celebration of that glorious descent of the holy ghost upon them on the day of pentecost , that which naturally follows from it is , the great care we ought to take lest we be found guilty of neglecting that great salvation which is offered to us in that doctrine which was attested in so eminent a manner by god himself ; and that from the consideration of our own danger ; for how shall we escape , if we neglect so great salvation ? wherein are three things considerable : . the care god hath taken to make us happy , by offering so great salvation to us . . the care we ought to take in order to our own happiness , not to neglect the offers which god hath made us . . the unavoidable punishment which those do incurre who are guilty of this neglect . how shall we escape ? i need not tell this auditory how forcible the negative is , which is expressed by such an interrogation which appeals to the judgement of all who hear it , and so relyes not upon the bare authority of the speaker , but upon the plain evidence of the thing , which others were judges of as well as himself . as though he had said , if you slight and disesteem the gospel of christ , upon whatever grounds ye do it , if either through too great an opinion of the wisdom of this world you despise it as vain and useless , if through too mean an opinion of the excellency of christianity , you reject it either as uncertain in its theory , or impossible in its practise ; or if through too great a love of the pleasures of sin , or a secure and careless temper of minde , you regard not the doing what christianity requires to make you happy ; think with your selves , what way you can finde to escape the wrath of god ; for my part , i know of none ; for if god were so severe against the violation of a far meaner institution , viz. of the law of moses , insomuch that every contempt and disobedience did receive a just recompence of reward , how shall we escape who neglect so great salvation ? or as the apostle elsewhere argues to the same purpose . he that despised moses law died without mercy , under two or three witnesses , of how much sorer punishment suppose ye shall he be thought worthy , who hath troden under foot the son of god , and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing , and hath done despite unto the spirit of grace ? this is a sad subject , but i am afraid too necessary to be spoken to in the age we live in ; wherein men seem to be inapprehensive of the danger of inwardly despising the religion they profess to own , and the neglecting of that which they hope to be saved by . it is strange that it should be so ; but much more strange that men should think to do so , and not be call'd to an account for it . it is not only the gross and open sinner that desies heaven , and by his oaths and blasphemies dares god to shew his power and justice upon him , but the slye and self-deceiving hypocrite that hates religion while he thinks he loves it ; that in his heart contemns it , but is afraid to know that he does so , that ought to be possess'd with a truer sense of religion , and a greater dread of the issue of the contempt or neglect of it . there is some appearance of ingenuity in an open enmity ; but none so dangerous as that which hides it self under the disguise of friendship . in our saviours time there were several sorts of those who shewed their disesteem of him , some that were so enraged against him , that they contrive all wayes for his disgrace and punishment , others could hear him with patience , but the cares of this world , the deceitfulness of riches , and the lust of other things choaked and stifled all good apprehensions of him , that they became weak and ineffectual . and those were guilty of making light of the marriage-feast because of other business which they had to minde , matth. . . as well as those who offered all the injuries and affronts to his servants that invited them , v. . and as it was in the dayes of our saviour , so it is now ; some were eating and drinking , minding nothing but the vain and sensual pleasures of the world ; some were buying and selling , so busie in this world , that they had no leisure to think of being happy in another , some were deriding and blaspheming ; but all these too wise , or too vain , or too profane to minde the offers of eternal salvation . i wish we could say it were otherwise now , that a sensual and voluptuous , an easie and a careless life in some , that ambition and the restless pursuit after the honour and riches of the world in others , that a profane wit , and a contempt of all that is serious in those that think themselves too great to be religious , did not enervate the force of christianity upon their minds , and make them all though upon different grounds agree in the neglect of their own salvation . but is the case of such men grown so desperate that no remedy can work upon them ? hath the love of sin and the world so far intoxicated them , that no reason or consideration whatever can awaken them ? have they hardened themselves against all the power of divine truths with a resolution as strong as death , and as cruel as the grave whither they are going ? will neither the love of happiness , nor the fear of misery , their own interest , and the wisdom of avoiding so great a danger , the dread of the majesty and power of god , and the horror of the great day , prevail at least so far on men to consider , whether these things be true or no ; and if they be , what unspeakable solly it is to neglect them ? and the better to make that appear , i shall prove these following things : . that god by the gospel hath taken so great care of mens happiness , that nothing but a gross neglect can make them miserable . . that nothing can be more unreasonable , than when god hath taken so much care of it , men should neglect it themselves . . that it is very just for god to vindicate himself against so gross a neglect , by the severe punishments of the life to come . . that god by the gospel hath taken so great care of mens salvation , that nothing but a gross neglect can make them miserable . for , whatever the minde of man can imagine necessary in order to its own happiness , in its present fallen and degenerate condition , is abundantly provided for by the gospel of christ. for , man was so wholly lost as to his own felicity , that among the ruins and decayes of his nature , he could not pick up so much as the perfect image and idea of his own happiness ; when he reflects upon himself , he finds himself such a confused mass of folly and weakness , that he can never imagine that so noble a design should have its ground-work laid upon so course a being . and rather than believe the foundation of his happiness to be within himself , there is nothing so vain and trifling without him , but he is ready to fall down before it , and cry out , here i place my felicity . sometimes he admires the brave shews , and the pomp and gallantry of the world , and thinks nothing comparable to a glorious out-side , and a great train of attendants : sometimes he raises himself , and flutters upon the wings of a popular air , till a cross blast comes and leaves him in the common rout : sometimes his eyes are dazzled with the glory of the more refined and solid pieces of that earth out of which he was framed , and thinks it reasonable , that the softness of flesh and blood , should yield to the impressions of silver and gold ; sometimes he even envyes the pleasures of the brutes , and if it were possible would out-doe them in their grossest sensualities : sometimes again he flatters himself , and then adores his own imperfections , and thinks his passions , honour ; and his profaneness , wit. so far is vain man from making himself happy , that the first step to it , is to make him understand what it is to be so . but supposing that the true image of his happiness should drop down from heaven ; and by the place from whence it fell , should conclude where the thing it self is to be found ; yet this were only to make him more miserable , unless he withall knew how to come thither . he is sure not to climb up to it by the tops of the highest mountains , nor to be carried thither upon the wings of a mighty wind , he hath no fiery chariots at his command to ascend with to the glories above : but only he that maketh his angels spirits , and his ministers a flame of fire , is able to preserve the souls of men from vanishing into the soft air , and to conduct them to the mansions of eternal bliss . it is he only that can make them capable of the joyes of another life , by purging them from the stains and the pollutions of this . and therefore without his grace and favour ever to hope for the happiness of heaven , must be by fancying a heaven to be there , where there is no god. so that it is necessary , that the proposals of this salvation must come from the author of it , and that with such arguments as may perswade men of the truth of it , and with such motives as may encourage men to accept of them . now the gospel of christ affords us all these things which are necessary to our happiness , there we have the most agreeable and settled notion and idea of it , the most large and free offers of divine goodness in order to it , the greatest assurance that these things did immediately proceed from god , and the most encouraging motives to accept of these offers in order to that great salvation which is tender'd to us . . we have the most agreeable and setled notion of true happiness : not such a mean and uncertain thing which lyes at the mercy of the continual vicissitudes and contingencies of this present state , but that which is able to bear up the minde of man against all the troubles of this life , and to carry him to a region beyond them all , where there is a fulness of joy without an allay of sadness after it , and ever-flowing rivers of pleasures that need no dams to make them rise higher , nor falls to make their motion perceived . our blessed saviour never flatters his followers with the expectation of a felicity in this life ; contentment is the most he hath promised them , and that they may enjoy , if they follow his directions , let this world be be what it will , and do what it pleases with them . he never tells his disciples they may have satisfaction here if they lie upon their beds of down with their heads full of tormenting cares , that the pleasure of humane life lies in the gratifications of the senses , and in making what use they can of the world ; he never deceives them with the promise of so poor a happiness as that which depends upon health , friends , prosperity , and having our own wills . no , but he tells them of a more noble and generous felicity ; that will preserve its own stae and grandeur in spight of the world ; a happiness consistent with loss of estate , loss of friends , with affronts and injuries , with persecutions , and death it self . for , when our saviour begins to discourse of happiness , what another kinde of strain doth he speak of it in , than any of those philosophers who have so much obstructed the happiness of mans life by their voluminous writings and contentions about it . here we meet with no epicurean softness , which the sense of true virtue carried the minds of the more noble heathens above ; no rigid and incredible stoical paradoxes , that make men only happy by the change of names ; no aristotelean supposition of a prosperous life for vertue to shew its power in ; but here the only supposition made , is that which lyes in a mans own breast , viz. true goodness , and then let his condition be what it will , his happiness is consistent with it . for those above all other persons whom our saviour calls blessed , in the beginning of that excellent abstract of christianity , his sermon on the mount , are , not the rich and great men of the world , but those who , to the poverty of their condition adde that of their spirits too , by being contented with the state they are in ; not those , who are full of mirth and jollity , that laugh away one half of their time , and sleep the rest ; but they who are in a mournfull condition , either by reason of their own sorrows , or out of compassion to others , or out of a general sense of their own imperfections , or the inconstancy of our present state : not those , who are ready enough to give , but unable to bear affronts , that think the lives of men a sacrifice small enough for any words of disgrace which they have given them ; but the meek and patient spirit , that is neither apt to provoke , nor in a rage and madness when it is ; that values the rules of christianity above all the barbarous punctilio's of honour . not those , who are as impetuous in the pursuit of their designs , and as eager of tasting the fruits of them , as the thirsty traveller in the sands of arabia is of drinking the waters of a pleasant spring : but such who make righteousness and goodness their meat and drink , that which they hunger and thirst after , and take as much pleasure in as the most voluptuous epicure in his greatest dainties : not those , whose malice goes beyond their power , and want only enough of that to make the whole world a slaughter-house , and account racks and torments among the necessary instruments of governing the world ; but such , who when their enemies are in their power , will not torment themselves by cruelty to them , but have such a sense of common humanity , as not only to commend pity and good nature to those above them , but to use it to those who are under them . not those , whose hearts are as full of dissimulation and hypocrisie , as the others hands are of blood and violence , that care not what they are , so they may but seem to be good : but such whose inward integrity and purity of heart , far exceeds the outward shew and profession of it : who honour goodness for it self , and not for the glory which is about the head of it . not those , who never think the breaches of the world wide enough , till there be a door large enough for their own interests to go in at by them ; that would rather see the world burning , than one peg be taken out of their chariot-wheels : but such who would sacrifice themselves , like the brave roman , to fill up the wide gulf which mens contentions have made in the world ; and think no legacy ought to be preserved more inviolable than that of peace , which our saviour left to his disciples . lastly , not those , who will do any thing rather than suffer , or if they suffer it shall be for any thing rather than righteousness , to uphold a party , or maintain a discontented faction ; but such , who never complain of the hardness of their way , as long as they are sure it is that of righteousness ; but if they meet with reproaches and persecutions in it , they welcome them , as the harbingers of their future reward , the expectation of which makes the worst condition not only tolerable but easie to them . thus we see what kinde of happiness it is , which the gospel promises ; not such a one as rises out of the dust , or is tost up and down with the motion of it ; but such whose never-failing fountain is above , and whither those small rivulets return , which fall down upon earth to refresh the mindes of men in their passage thither ; but while they continue here , as the jews say of the water that came out of the rock , it follows them while they travel through this wilderness below . so that the foundation of a christians happiness is the expectation of a life to come , which expectation having so firm a bottom , as the assurance which christ hath given us by his death and sufferings , it hath power and influence sufficient to bear up the mindes of men , against all the vicissitudes of this present state . . we have the most large and free offers of divine goodness in order to it . were it as easie for man to govern his own passions , as to know that he ought to do it ; were the impressions of reason and religion as powerfull with mankinde as those of folly and wickedness are , we should never need complain much of the misery of our present state , or have any cause to fear a worse to come . there would then be no condition here but what might be born with satisfaction to ones own minde ; and the life of one day led according to the principles of vertue and goodness , would be preferred before a sinning immortality . but we have lost the command of our selves , and therefore our passions govern us ; and as long as such furies drive us , no wonder if our ease be little . when men began first to leave the uncertain speculations of nature , and found themselves so out of order , that they thought the great care ought to be to regulate their own actions ; how soon did their passions discover themselves about the way to govern them ! and they all agreed in this , that there was great need to do it , and that it was impossible to do it without the principles of vertue ; for never was there any philosopher so bad , as to think any man could be happy without vertue ; even the epicureans themselves acknowledged it for one of their established ma●… that no man could live a pleasant life w●…t being good : and supposing the multiplication of sects of philosophers about these things as far as varro thought it possible to . ( although there never were so many , nor really could be upon his own grounds ) yet not one of all these but made it necessary to be vertuous , in order to being happy , and those who did not think vertue to be desired for it self , yet made it a necessary means for the true pleasure and happiness of our lives . but when they were agreed in this , that it was impossible for a vitious man to enjoy any true contentment of minde : they fell into nice and subtle disputes about the names and order of things to be chosen , and so lost the great effect of all their common principles . they pretended great cures for the disorders of mens lives , and excellent remedies against the common distempers of humane nature , but still the disease grew under the remedy , and their applications were too weak to allay the fury of their passions . it was neither the order and good of the universe , nor the necessity of events , nor the things being out of our power , nor the common condition of humanity , no nor that comfort of ill natured men , as carneades call'd it , the many companions ●…ave in misery , that could keep their ●…ons from breaking out when a great occasion was presented them . for he who had read all their discourses carefully , and was a great man himself , i mean cicero , upon the death of his beloved daughter , was so far from being comforted by them , that he was fain to write a consolation for himself , in which the greatest cure ( it may be ) was the diversion he found in writing it . but supposing these things had gone much farther , and that all wise men could have governed their passions as to the troubles of this life ( and certainly the truest wisdom lies in that ) . yet what had all this been to a preparation for an eternal state , which they knew little of , and minded less ? all their discourses about a happy life here , were vain , and contradicted by themselves ; when , after all their rants about their wise man being happy in the bull of phalaris , &c. they yet allow'd him to dispatch himself if he saw cause , which a wise man would never do , if he thought himself happy when he did it . so that unless god himself had given assurance of a life to come , by the greatest demonstrations of it in the death and resurrection of his son ; all the considerations whatever could never have made mankinde happy . but by the gospel he hath taken away all suspicions and doubts concerning another state , and hath declared his own readiness to be reconciled to us upon our repentance , to pardon what hath been done amiss , and to give that divine assistance whereby our wills may be governed , and our passions subdued , and upon a submission of our selves to his wise providence , and a sincere obedience to his laws , he hath promised eternal salvation in the life to come . . god hath given us the greatest assurance that these offers came from himself ; which the apostle gives an account of here , saying , that this salvation began at first to be spoken by our lord , and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him ; god also bearing them witness by signs and wonders , &c. wherein we have all the satisfaction which the mindes of reasonable men could desire as to these things : it might be justly expected , that the messenger of so great news to the world should be no mean and ordinary person ; neither was he , for the honour was as great in the person who brought it , as the importance was in the thing it self : no less than the eternal son of god came down from the bosom of his father , to rectifie the mistakes of mankinde , and not only to shew them the way to be happy , but by the most powerfull arguments to perswade them to be so . nay , we find all the three persons of the trinity here engaged in the great work of mans salvation ; it was first spoken by our lord , god also bearing them witness , and that with divers miracles and gifts of the holy ghost . so that not only the first revelation was from god , but the testimony to confirm that it was so , was from him too ; there being never so clear an attestation of any divine truths as was of the doctrine of the gospel . from whence it follows , that the foundation whereon our faith stands , is nothing short of a divine testimony , which god gave to the truth of that revelation of his will ; so vain are the cavils of those who say , we have nothing but meer probabilities for our faith , and do interpret that manner of proof which matters of fact are capable of , in a sense derogatory to the firmness of our christian faith. as though we made the spirit of god a paraclete or advocate in the worst sense , which might as well plead a bad as a good cause . no , we acknowledge , that god himself did bear witness to that doctrine deliver'd by our lord , and that in a most signal and effectual manner , for the conviction of the world , by those demonstrations of a divine power which accompanyed the first preachers of salvation by the gospel of christ. so that here the apostle briefly and clearly resolves our faith ; if you ask , why we believe that great salvation which the gospel offers ? the answer is , because it was declared by our lord , who neither could nor would deceive us : if it be asked , how we know that this was delivered by our lord ? he answers , because this was the constant doctrine of all his disciples , of those who constantly heard him , and conversed with him . but if you ask again , how can we know , that their testimony was infallible , since they were but men , he then resolves all into that , that god bare witness to them by signs and wonders , and divers miracles , and gifts of the holy ghost . and those persons whom these arguments will not convince , none other will. who are we , that should not think that sufficient which god himself thought so ! who are we , that dare question the certainty of that which hath had the broad seal of heaven to attest it ! can any thing make it surer than god himself hath done ? and can there be any other way more effectual for that end , than those demonstrations of a divine power and presence which the apostles were acted by ? those that cavil at this way of proof , would have done so at any other , if god had made choice of it : and those who will cavil at any thing , are resolved to be convinced by nothing ; and such are not fit to be discoursed with . . here are the most prevailing motives to perswade them to accept of these offers of salvation . there are two passions , which are the great hinges of government , viz. mens hopes and fears , and therefore all laws have had their sanctions suitable to these two in rewards and punishments : now there was never any reward which gave greater encouragement to hope , never any punishment which made fear more reasonable than those are which the gospel proposes . will ever that man be good , whom the hopes of heaven will not make so ? or will ever that man leave his sins whom the fears of hell will not make to do it ? what other arguments can we imagine should ever have that power and influence on mankinde , which these may be reasonably supposed to have ? would you have god alter the methods of his providence , and give his rewards and punishments in this life ? but if so , what exercise would there be of the patience , forbearance and goodness of god towards wicked men ? must he do it as soon as ever men sin ? then he would never try whether they would repent and grow better ? or must he stay till they have come to such a height of sin ? then no persons would have cause to fear him , but such who are arrived at that pitch of wickedness : but how then should he punish them ? must it be by continuing their lives , and making them miserable ? but let them live , and they will sin yet further : must it be by utterly destroying them ? that to persons , who might have time to sin the mean while , ( supposing annihilation were all to be fear'd ) would never have power enough to deterr men from the height of their wickedness . so that nothing but the misery of a life to come , can be of force enough to make men fear god , and regard themselves ; and this is that which the gospel threatens to those that neglect their salvation , which it sometimes calls everlasting fire , sometimes the worm that never dies , sometimes the wrath to come , sometimes everlasting destruction , all enough to fill the minds of men with horror at the apprehension ; and what then will the undergoing it doe ? thence our saviour , reasonably bids men , not fear them that can only kill the body , but are not able to kill the soul ; but rather fear him which is able to destroy both body and soul in hell . thus the gospel suggests the most proper object of fear , to keep men from sin , and as it doth that , so it presents likewise the most desireable object of hope to encourage men to be good ; which is no less than a happiness that is easier to hope to enjoy than to comprehend ; a happiness infinitely above the most ambitious hopes and glories of this world ; wherein greatness is added to glory , weight to greatness , and eternity to them all ; therefore call'd a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory . wherein the joyes shall be full and constant , the perception clear and undisturbed , the fruition with continual delight and continual desire . where there shall be no fears to disquiet , no enemies to allarm , no dangers to conquer ; nothing shall then be , but an uninterrupted peace , an unexpressible joy , and pleasures for evermore . and what could be ever imagined more satisfactory to mindes tired out with the vanities of this world , than such a repose as that is ? what more agreeable to the minds and desires of good men , than to be eased of this clog of flesh , and to spend eternity with the fountain of all goodness , and the spirits of just men made perfect ? what more ravishing delight to the souls that are purged , and made glorious by the blood of the lamb , than to be singing hallelujahs to him that sits upon the throne , and to the lamb for ever and ever ? how poor and low things are those which men hope for in this world , compared with that great salvation , which the gospel makes to free a tender of ? what a mean thing is it to be great in this world , to be honourable and rich , i. e. to be made the object of the envy of some , the malice of others , and at last it may be , an instance of this worlds vanity ; and after all this to be for ever miserable ? but o the wisdom of a well-chosen happiness , that carries a man with contentment and peace through this life , and at last rewards him with a crown of everlasting felicity . thus we see the gospel proposes the most excellent means to make men happy , if they be not guilty of a gross neglect of it ; and if they be , that is their own act , and they must thank none but themselves if they be miserable . . but i pray , what reason can be given , since god is so tender of our happiness , that we should neglect it our selves ? which is the next thing to be spoken to . there are three sorts of things we think we have reason to neglect : such as are too mean , and unworthy our care , such as are so uncertain , that they will not recompence it , such as our own interest is not at all concerned in ; but i hope there are none who have an immortal soul , and the use of their understandings , can ever reckon their salvation under one of these . . is it too mean an employment for you to minde the matters of your eternal welfare ? is religion a beggarly and contemptible thing , that it doth not become the greatness of your mindes to stoop to take any notice of it ? hath god lost his honour so much with you , that his service should be the object of mens scorn and contempt ? but what is it which these brave spirits think a fit employment for themselves , while they despise god and his worship ? is it to be curiously dressed , and make a fine shew , to think the time better spent at the glass than at their devotions ? these indeed are weighty imployments , and fit in the first place to be minded , if we were made only to be gazed upon . is it meerly to see playes , and read romances , and to be great admirers of that vain and frothy discourse which all persons account wit but those which have it ? this is such an end of mans life which no philosopher ever thought of . or is it to spend time in excesses and debaucheries , and to be slaves to as many lusts as will command them ? this were something indeed , if we had any other name given us but that of men. or lastly , is it to have their minds taken up with the great affairs of the world , to be wise in considering , carefull in managing the publick interest of a nation ? this is an employment , i grant , fit for the greatest mindes , but not such which need at all to take them off from minding their eternal salvation . for the greatest wisdom is consistent with that , else religion would be accounted folly , and i take it for granted , that it is never the truely wise man but the pretender that entertains any mean thoughts of religion . and such a one uses the publick interest no better than he doth religion , only for a shew to the world , that he may carry on his own designs the better . and is this really such a valuable thing for a man to be contented to cheat himself of his eternal happiness , that he may be able to cheat the world , and abuse his trust ? i appeal then to the consciences of all such who have any sense of humanity , and the common interest of mankinde , setting aside the considerations of a life to come , whether to be just and sober , vertuous and good , be not more suitable to the design of humane nature , than all the vanities and excesses , all the little arts and designs which men are apt to please themselves with ? and if so , shall the eternal happiness which follows upon being good , make it less desireable to be so ? no surely , but if god had required any thing to make us happy , which had been as contrary to our present interest as the precepts of christianity are agreeable to it ; yet the end would have made the severest commands easie , and those things pleasant which tend to make us happy . . are these things so uncertain , that they are not fit for a wise man to be solicitous about them ? if they will come with a little care , they will say , they are desireable , but too much will unfit them for greater business ? but do men believe these things to be true or not , when they say thus ? if they be true , why need they fear their uncertainty ? if they be certain , what pains and care can be too great about them ? since a little will never serve to obtain them . let but the care and diligence be proportionable to the greatness of the end , and the weight of the things , and you never need fear the want of a recompence for all your labour . but suppose you say , if you were fully convinced of their certainty , you would look more after them . what hinders you from being so convinced ? is it not a bad disposition of minde which makes you unwilling to enquire into them ? examine things with a minde as free as you would have it , judge seriously according to the reason of things , and you will easily finde the interests of a life to come are far more certain , as well as more desireable than those of this present life . and yet the great uncertainty of all the honours and riches of this world , never hinder the covetous or ambitious person from their great earnestness in pursuit of them . and shall not then all the mighty arguments which god himself hath made use of to confirm to us , the certainty of a life to come , prevail upon us to look more seriously after it ? shall the unexpressible love of the father , the unconceivable sufferings of the son of god , and the miraculous descent and powerfull assistance of the holy ghost have no more impression on our mindes , than to leave us uncertain of a future state ? what mighty doubts and suspicions of god , what distrusts of humane nature , what unspeakable ingratitude , and unaccountable folly lies at the bottom of all this uncertainty ? o fools , and slow of heart to believe , not only what the prophets have spoken , but what our lord hath declared , god himself hath given testimony to , and the holy ghost hath confirmed ! . but is not your interest concerned in these things ? is it all one to you whether your souls , be immortal or no ? whether they live in eternal felicity , or unchangeable misery ? is it no more to you , than to know what kind of bables are in request at the indies , or whether the customs of china or japan are the wiser , i. e. than the most trifling things , and the remotest from our knowledge . but this is so absurd and unreasonable to suppose , that men should not think themselves concern'd in their own eternal happiness and misery , that i shall not shew so much distrust of their understandings to speak any longer to it . . but if notwithstanding all these things our neglect still continues , then there remains nothing but a fearfull looking for of judgement , and the fiery indignation of god. for there is no possibility of escaping if we continue to neglect so great salvation . all hopes of escaping are taken away , which are onely in that , which men neglect ; and those who neglect their only way to salvation , must needs be miserable . how can that man ever hope to be saved by him whose blood he despises and tramples under foot ? what grace and favour can he expect from god , who hath done despight unto the spirit of grace ? that hath cast away with reproach and contempt the greatest kindness and offers of heaven . what can save him that resolves to be damned , and every one does so , who knows he shall be damned , if he lives in his sins , and yet continues to do so ? god himself , in whose only pity our hopes are , hath irreversibly decreed that he will have no pity upon those , who despise his goodness , slight his threatnings , abuse his patience , and sin the more because he offers to pardon . it is not any delight that god takes in the miseries of his creatures , which makes him punish them ; but shall not god vindicate his own honour against obstinate and impenitent sinners ? he declares before-hand , that he is far from delighting in their ruine , and that is the reason he hath made such large offers , and used so many means to make them happy ; but if men resolve to despise his offers , and slight the means of their salvation , shall not god be just without being thought to be cruel ? and we may assure our selves , none shall ever suffer , beyond the just desert of their sins , for punishment as the apostle tells us in the words before the text , is nothing but a just recompence of reward . and if there were such a one proportionable to the violation of the law delivered by angels ; how shall we think to escape who neglect a more excellent means of happiness , which was delivered by our lord himself ? if god did not hate sin , and there were not a punishment belonging to it , why did the son of god die for the expiation of it ? and if his death were the onely means of expiation , how is it possible that those who neglect that , should escape the punishment not only of their other sins , but of that great contempt of the means of our salvation by him ? let us not then think to trifle with god , as though it were impossible a being so mercifull and kind , should ever punish his creatures with the miseries of another life : for , however we may deceive our selves , god will not be mocked , for whatsoever a man soweth , that shall he reap ; for he that soweth to his flesh , shall of the flesh reap corruption : but he that soweth to the spirit , shall of the spirit reap life everlasting . i shall only propound some few considerations , to prevent so great a neglect as that of your salvation is . . consider , what it is you neglect , the offer of eternal happiness , the greatest kindness that ever was expressed to the world , the foundation of your present peace , the end of your beings , the stay of your mindes , the great desire of your souls , the utmost felicity that humane nature is capable of . is it nothing to neglect the favour of a prince , the kindness of great men , the offers of a large and plentifull estate ? but these are nothing to the neglect of the favour of god , the love of his son , and that salvation which he hath purchased for you . nay , it is not a bare neglect , but it implyes in it a mighty contempt not only of the things offer'd , but of the kindness of him who offers them . if men had any due regard for god or themselves , if they had any esteem for his love , or their own welfare , they would be much more serious in religion than they are . when i see a person wholly immersed in affairs of the world , or spending his time in luxury and vanity , can i possibly think that man hath any esteem of god or of his own soul ? when i finde one very serious in the pursuit of his designs in the world , thoughtfull and busie , subtle in contriving them , carefull in managing them ; but very formal , remiss and negligent in all affairs of religion , neither inquisitive about them , nor serious in minding them ; what can we otherwise think , but that such a one doth really think the things of the world better worth looking after , than those which concern his eternal salvation . but consider , before it be too late , and repent of so great folly . value an immortal soul as you ought to doe , think what reconciliation with god , and the pardon of sin is worth , slight not the dear purchase which was bought at no meaner a rate than the blood of the son of god , and then you cannot but minde the great salvation which god hath tender'd you . . consider , on what terms you neglect it , or what the things are for whose sake you are so great enemies to your own salvation . have you ever found that contentment in sin or the vanities of the world , that for the sake of them , you are willing to be for ever miserable ? what will you think of all your debaucheries , and your neglects of god and your selves , when you come to dye ? what would you give then ( if it were in your power to redeem your lost time ) that you had spent your time less to the satisfaction of your sensual desires , and more in seeking to please god ? how uncomfortable will the remembrance be of all your excesses , oaths , injustice and profaneness , when death approaches , and judgement follows it ? what peace of mind will there then be to those who have served god with faithfulness , and have endeavoured to work out their salvation , though it hath been with fear and trembling ? but what would it then profit a man to have gained the whole world , and to lose his own soul ? nay , what unspeakable losers must they then be , that lose their souls for that which hath no value at all , if compared with the world. . consider , what follows upon this neglect , not only the loss of great salvation ; but the incurring as great damnation for it . the scripture describes the miseries of the life to come , not meerly by negatives , but by the most sensible and painfull things . if destruction be dreadfull , that is everlasting destruction ; if the anguish of the soul , and the pains of the body be so troublesom , what will the destruction be both of body and soul in hell ? if a serpent gnawing in our bowels be a representation of an insupportable misery here , what will that be of the worm that never dies ? if a raging and devouring fire ; which can last but till it hath consumed a fading substance , be in its appearance so amazing , and in its pain so violent , what then will the enduring be of that wrath of god , which shall burn like fire , and yet be everlasting ? consider then of these things , while god gives you time to consider of them ; and think it an inestimable mercy that you have yet time to repent of your sins , to beg mercy at the hands of god , to redeem your time , to depart from iniquity , to be frequent in prayer , carefull of your actions , and in all things obedient to the will of god , and so god will pardon your former neglects , and grant you this great salvation . finis . hebr. . . for , consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself , lest ye be weary , and faint in your minds . it hath never yet been so well with the world , and we have no great reason to hope it ever will be so ; that the best of things , or of men , should meet with entertainment in it , suitable to their own worth and excellency . if it were once to be hoped , that all mankinde would be wise and sober , that their judgements would be according to the truth of things , and their actions suitable to their judgements ; we might then reasonably expect that nothing would be valued so much as true goodness , nothing so much in contempt and disgrace as impiety and profaneness . but if we finde it much otherwise in the age we live in ; we have so much the less cause to wonder at it ; because it hath been thus , in those times we might have thought would have been far better than our own . i mean those times and ages , wherein there were not only great things first spoken and delivered to mankinde , but examples as great as the things themselves ; but these did so little prevail on the stupid and unthankfull world , that they among whom the son of god did first manifest himself , seem'd only solicitous to make good one prophesie concerning him , viz. that he should be despised and rejected of men . and they who suffer'd their malice to live as long as he did , were not contented to let it dye with him ; but their fury increases as the gospel does : and wherever it had spread it self , they pursue it with all the rude clamors , and violent persecutions which themselves or their factors could raise against it . this we have a large testimony of , in those jewish christians to whom this epistle was written ; who had no sooner embraced the christian religion , but they were set upon by a whole army of persecutions . heb. . . but call to remembrance the former dayes , in which after ye were illuminated , ye endured a great fight of afflictions . as though the great enemy of souls , and therefore of christians , had watched the first opportunity to make the strongest impression upon them , while they were yet young and unexperienced ; and therefore less able to resist so sharp an encounter . he had found how unsuccessfull the offer of the good things of this world had been with their lord and master ; and therefore was resolved to try what a severer course would do with all his followers . but the same spirit by which he despised all the glories of the world , which the tempter would have made him believe he was the disposer of ; enabled them with a mighty courage , and strange transports of joy , not only to bear their own share of reproaches and afflictions , but a part of theirs who suffer'd with them , v. , . but least through continual duty , occasion'd by the hatred of their persecutors , and the multitude of their afflictions ; their courage should abate , and their spirits saint ; the apostle finds it necessary , not only to put them in mind of their former magnanimity ; but to make use of all arguments that might be powerfull with them , to keep up the same vigour and constancy of mind in bearing their sufferings , which they had at first . for he well knew , how much it would tend to the dishonour of the gospel , as well as to their own discomfort ; if after such an early proof of a great and undaunted spirit , it should be said of them , as was once of a great roman captain , ultima primis cedebant ; that they should decline in their reputation as they did in their years ; and at last sink under that weight of duty which they had born with so much honour before . therefore , as a general in the field , after a sharp and fierce encounter at first , with a mighty resolution by his souldiers ; when he finds by the number and fresh recruits of the enemy , that his smaller forces are like to be born down before them ; and through meer weariness of fighting are ready to turn their backs , or yield themselves up to the enemies mercy ; he conjures them by the honour they have gain'd , and the courage they had already expressed , by their own interest , and the example of their leaders , by the hopes of glory , and the fears of punishment , that they would bear the last shock of their enemies force , and rather be the trophies of their courage than of their triumphs : so does our apostle , when he finds some among them begin to debate , whether they had best to stand it out or no ; he conjures them , . by the remembrance of their own former courage , whereby they did bear as sharp tryals as these could be , with the greatest chearfulness and constancy ; and what could they gain by yielding at last , but great dishonour to themselves , that they had suffer'd so long to no purpose , unless it were to discover their own weakness and inconstancy . . by the hopes of a reward which would surely follow their faithfulness ; v. , . cast not away therefore your confidence , which hath great recompence of reward . for ye have need of patience , that after ye have done the will of god , ye might receive the promise : and the time will not be long ere ye come to enjoy it , v. . but if ye draw back , you lose all your former labours , for he who alone is able to recompence you , hath said , that if any man draw back , my soul shall have no pleasure in him , v. . and then from the example of himself , and all the genuine followers of christ , but we are not of them who draw back unto perdition ; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul , v. . but least these examples should not be enough to perswade them ; he conjures them by the name of all those who were as eminent for the greatness of their minds as the strength of their faith ; who have despised the frowns as well as the smiles of the world ; and were not discouraged by the severest tryals from placing their confidence in god , and their hopes in a life to come ; and all this done by persons who had not received the promise : heb. . . and could there be a greater disparagement to the clearness of that light we enjoy above them , if we only grew fainter by it ? and therefore in the begining of this chapter he encourages them by that army of martyrs which had gone before them , by that cloud of witnesses which did both direct and refresh them , that they would lay aside every thing which was apt to oppress or dishearten them , but especially their sinfull fears , which they were so easily betray'd by , and so run with patience the race that was set before them , v. . but , saith he , if none of these will prevail with you , there is an example yet behinde , which ought above all others to heighten your courage , and that is , of the captain of your salvation , the author and finisher of your faith , under whom you serve , and from whom you expect your reward ; and as caesar once said to his souldiers , when he saw them ready to retreat out of the field , videte quem , & quo loco imperatorem deserturi estis , remember what kinde of generall you forsake , and in what place you leave him : one whom you have vow'd your lives and your service to , one who hath thought nothing too dear , which was to be done for your good , one that will be ready to reward the least service you can do for him , one that is ready to assist you to the utmost in what you undertake , one that hath already undergone far more for your sakes , than ever you can do for his ; therefore , consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself , lest ye be weary , and faint in your minds . in which words we have represented to us , the unparallel'd example of courage and patience under sufferings , in our lord and saviour ; and the great influence that it ought to have on all those who are call'd by his name , that they would not dishonour so excellent a pattern of enduring sufferings , by weakness or dejection of mind . christianity is a religion which above all others does arm men against all the contingencies and miseries of the life of man : yea , it makes them serviceable to the most advantageous purposes that the greatest blessings can be designed for . it raises the minds of men higher than barely to consider , the common condition of humane nature , the unavoidableness of such things which are out of our own power , and the unreasonableness of tormenting our selves about the things which are so , and that most mens conditions in the world as to their contentment , depends more upon their minds , than their outward circumstances ; though these are things very fit for us as men to consider and make use of ; yet they do not reach to that height , which the consideration of a life to come , and the tendency of all our sufferings here to the inhancement of our future glory may raise us to . especially considering not only the weight of the arguments in themselves , but the force they receive from the example of him , who for the joy that was set before him , endured the cross , and despised the shame , and is set down at the right hand of the throne of god. by which mighty instance we find , that the sufferings of this life are so far from being inconsistent with the joyes of another , that he who is the captain of salvation , was made perfect through sufferings , and therefore none of his followers have cause to be dejected under them . but that we may the better understand the force of this argument , we shall consider , . what those things were which he endured . . from whom he suffer'd them , it was the contradiction of sinners against himself . . in that way and manner he underwent them . . for what ends he did it . and when we have considered these , we shall see the influence this example of christs sufferings ought to have upon our constancy and patience : which will be the most usefull improvement of it to us . . what those things were which christ endured ; which are here comprehended under those words , the contradiction of sinners . it is agreed by the best expositors , both greek and latin , that under this phrase of the contradiction of sinners , the whole history of our saviours sufferings is comprehended . all the injuries , reproaches , false accusations , all the cruelties , indignities , and violence , which were offer'd him , from the time of his publick appearance to his expiring upon the cross , being undergone by him , by the malice of unreasonable men , may be call'd the contradiction of sinners . for the sense of this word extends as well to actions as words ; and the summe of all that which our saviour suffer'd from them , may be reduced under these heads . . the ill entertainment of his doctrine . . the disparagement of his miracles . . the violence offer'd to his person . . the ill entertainment of his doctrine ; which must needs seem very strange to these who do not consider what a difficult acc●…s the clearest reason hath to the minds of such who are governed by interest and prejudice . though all the prophesies concerning the messias were fulfilled in him ; though the expectations of the people were great at that time concerning the appearance of him that was to redeem his people ; though all the characters of time , place , and person , did fully agree to what was foretold by the prophets ; though his doctrine were as becoming the son of god to reveal , as the sons of men to receive ; though the unspotted innocency of his life were so great , as made him weary of his own that betray'd him : yet because he came not with the pomp and splendor which they expected , they despise his person , revile his doctrine , persecute his followers , and contrive his ruine . what could have been imagined more probable , than that the jewish nation , which had waited long in expectation of the messias coming , should have welcom'd his approach with the greatest joy , and receiv'd the message he brought with a kindness only short of that which he shewed in coming among them ? was it nothing to be eased of that heavy burden of the ceremonial law , which neither they nor their fathers were able to bear ? and that god was willing to exchange the chargeable and troublesome service of the temple , for the more reasonable and spiritual worship of himself ? was it nothing to have the promises of a land which now groaned under the weight of its oppressions , turned into those of an eternal state of bliss and immortality ? and to change the lamps of the temple , for the glorious appearance of the sun of righteousness ? was it nothing to have an offer of peace and reconciliation with god made them , after they had suffer'd so much under the fury of his displeasure ? was a meer temporal deliverance by some mighty conquerour from the subjection they were in to the roman power , so much more valuable a thing , than an eternal redemption from the powers of hell and the grave ? are the pomps and vanities of this present life , such great things in gods account , that it was not possible for his son to appear without them ? nay , how unsuitable had it been for one who came to preach humility , patience , self-denyall , and contempt of the world , to have made an ostentation of the state and grandeur of it ? so that either he must have changed his doctrine , or rendred himself lyable to the suspicion of seeking to get this world by the preaching of another . and if his doctrine had been of another kinde , he might have been esteemed a great person among the jews , but not the son of god , or the promised messias , in whom all nations of the earth should be blessed . which surely they would never have thought themselves to have been , in one , who must have subdued the neighbour nations to advance the honour of his own . but since the son of god thought fit to appear in another manner than they expected him , they thought themselves too great to be saved by so mean a saviour . if he had made all the kingdoms of the earth to have bowed under him , and the nations about them to have been all tributaries to them ; if jerusalem had been made the seat of an empire as great as the world it self , they would then have gloried in his name , and entertained whatever he had said , whether true or false , with a wonderfull veneration . but truth in an humble dress meets with few admirers ; they could not imagine so much power and majesty could ever shroud it self under so plain a disguise . thus christ came to his own , and his own received him not . yea , those that should have known him the best of all others ; those who frequently conversed with him , and heard him speak as never man spake , and saw him do what never man did , were yet so blinded by the meanness of his parentage and education , that they baffle their own reason , and persist in their infidelity , because they knew the place and manner of his breeding ; the names of his mother and his brethren and sisters ; are they not all with us ? whence then hath this man all these things ? as though , is not this the carpenters son , had been sufficient answer to all he could say or do . . the disparagement of his miracles . since the bare proposal of his doctrine , though never so reasonable , could not prevail with them to believe him to be the son of god , he offers them a further proof of it by the mighty works which were wrought by him . and though the more ingenuous among them were ready to acknowledge , that no man could do the things which he did , unless god were with him : yet they who were resolved to hear and see , and not understand ; when they found it not for their credit , to deny matters of fact so universally known and attested , they seek all the means to blast the reputation of them that may be . sometimes raising popular insinuations against him , that he was a man of no austere life , a friend of publicans and sinners , one that could choose no other day to do his works on , but that very day wherein god himself did rest from his ; and therefore no great regard was to be had to what such a one did . when these arts would not take , but the people found the benefit of his miracles , in healing the sick , curing the blinde and the lame , feeding the hungry ; then they undervalue all these in comparison with the wonders that were wrought by moses in the wilderness . if he would have made the earth to open her mouth , and swallow up the city and the power of rome ; if he would have fed a mighty army with bread from heaven , in stead of feeding some few thousands with very small provisions ; if in stead of raising one lazarus from the grave , he would have raised up their sampsons , and their davids , their men of spirit and conduct , whose very presence would have put a new life , into the hearts of the people ; if in stead of casting out devils , he would have cast out the romans , whom they hated the worse of the two : if he would have set himself to the cure of a distempered state , instead of healing the maladies of some few inconsiderable persons : if instead of being at the expense of a miracle to pay tribute , he would have hinder'd them from paying any at all ; then a second moses would have been too mean a title for him , he could have been no less than the promised messias , the son of god. but while he imploy'd his power another way , the demonstration of it made them hate him the more ; since they thought with themselves what strange things they would have done with it for the benefit of their countrey ; and therefore express the greatest malice against him , because he would not imploy it as they would have him . from thence , they condemn his miracles as only some effects of a magical skill ; and say , he dispossessed the lesser devils by the power of him that was the prince among them . so unworthy a requital did they make for all the mighty works which had been done among them ; which , as our saviour saith , if they had been done in tyre and sidon , they would have repented long ago in sack-cloth and ashes . . but although all this argued a strange spirit of contradiction in them to all the designs for their own good ; yet the malice from whence that rose , would not stop here ; for as they had long contrived his ruine , so they watched only an opportunity to effect it . which his frequent presence at jerusalem seemed to put into their hands , but his reputation with the people made them fearfull of embracing it . therefore they imploy their agents to deal privately with one of his disciples who might be fittest for their design ; and to work upon his covetous humour by the promise of a reward , to bring him to betray his master with the greatest privacy into their hands . this judas undertakes , knowing the place and season of his masters retirements , not far from the city , where they might with the greatest secrecy and safety seize upon his person . which contrivance of theirs our saviour was not at all ignorant of ; but prepares himself and his disciples for this great encounter . he institutes his solemn supper , to be perpetually observed in remembrance of his death and sufferings ; after which he discourses admirably with his disciples , to arm them against their future sufferings ; and prays that most divine prayer , s. john . which he had no sooner finished , but he goes with his disciples to the usual place of his retirement in a garden at the foot of the mount of olives . and now begins the blackest scene of sufferings that ever was acted upon humane nature . which was so great , that the son of god himself expresseth a more than usual apprehension of it ; which he discovered by the agony he was in , in which he sweat drops of blood ; by the earnestness of his prayer , falling upon his knees , and praying thrice , saying , o my father , if it be possible , let this cup pass from me ; nevertheless not as i will , but as thou wilt . surely , this cup must needs have a great deal of bitterness in it , which the son of god was so earnest to be freed from . if there had been nothing in it but what is commonly incident to humane nature , as to the apprehensions of death or pain , it seems strange , that he who had the greatest innocency , the most perfect charity , the freest resignation of himself , the fullest assurance of the reward to come , should express a greater sense of the horror of his sufferings , than thousands did , who suffer'd for his sake . but now was the hour come wherein the son of god was to be made a sacrifice for the sins of men ; wherein he was to bear our griefs , and carry our sorrows ; when he was to be wounded for our transgressions , and bruised for our iniquities ; now his soul was exceeding sorrowfull even unto death ; for now the hour of his enemies was come , and the power of darkness . and accordingly they improve it ; they come out against him as a malefactor , with swords and staves , and having seized his person , being betray'd into their hands by one of his disciples , they carry him to the high priests house , where his professed enemies presently condemn him of blasphemy , and not content with this , they express the greatest contempt of him , for they spit in his face , they buffet him , and smite him with the palms of their hands , they mock him , and bid him prophesie who it was that smote him ; so insolent was their malice grown , and so spightfull was their indignation against him . and so fearfull were they , lest he should escape their hands , that the very next morning early , they send him bound to the roman governour , to have the sentence pronounced against him , to whom they accuse him of sedition and treason ; but pilate upon examination of him declares , he found no fault in him ; which made them heap more unreasonable calumnies upon him , being resolved by what means soever to take away his life . nay , the price of the blood of the son of god was fallen so low with them , that they preferred the life of a known seditious person , and a murtherer before him . and when pilate being unsatisfied , asked still , what evil he had aone ? they continue their importunity without any other answer but crucifie him , and making up what wanted in justice and reason in the loudness of their clamors . and at last seeing the fury and madness of the people , with the protestation of his own innocency as to his blood , he delivers him up to the people ; and now he is stripped , and scourged , and mock'd , with a crown of thorns , a scarlet robe , and a reed in his hand : all the indignities they could think of , they put upon him . but though it pleased them , to have him exposed to all the ignominies imaginable , yet nothing would satisfie them but his blood ; and therefore he is led forth to be crucified , and though so lately scourged and weakened by his sorrows , yet he is made to carry his own cross ( at least through the city ) for no other death could satisfie them , but the most ignominious , and painfull . and when he was brought to the place of crucifixion , they nail his hands and feet to the cross , and while he was hanging there , they deride and mock him still , they divide his garments before his face , give him gall and vinegar to drink , and the last act of violence committed upon him , was the piercing of his side , so that out of his pericardium issued both water and blood . thus did the son of god suffer at the hands of unreasonable men ; thus was the blood of that immaculate lamb spilt by the hands of violence ; and he who left the bosom of his father , to bring us to glory , was here treated as if he had been unworthy to live upon the earth . . but that which yet heightens these sufferings of christ , is to consider , from whom he suffer'd these things , it was from sinners ; which is as much as to say , from men , if the word were taken in the largest sense of it ; for all have sinned ; but being taken by us in opposition to other men , so it implyes a greater height of wickedness in these than in other persons . but this is not here to be consider'd absolutely , as denoting what kinde of persons he suffer'd from , but with a particular respect to the nature of their proceedings with him , and the obligations that lay upon them to the contrary . so that the first shews the injustice and unreasonableness of them ; the second , their great ingratitude , considering the kindness and good will which he expressed towards them . . the injustice and unreasonableness of their proceedings against him . it is true indeed , ( what socrates said to his wife , when she complained that he suffer'd unjustly , what , saith he , and would you have me suffer justly ? ) it is much greater comfort to the person who does suffer , when he does it unjustly , but it is a far greater reflection on those who were the causes of it . and that our blessed saviour did suffer with the greatest injustice from these men , is apparent from the falseness and weakness of all the accusations which were brought against him . to accuse the son of god for blasphemy , in saying , he was so , is as unjust as to condemn a king for treason , because he saith he is a king : they ought to have examined the grounds on which he call'd himself so ; and if he had not given pregnant evidences of it , than to have passed sentence upon him as an impostor and blasphemer . if the thing were true , that he was what he said , the son of god , what horrible guilt was it in them , to imbrue their hands in his blood ? and they found he alwayes attested it , and now was willing to lay down his life to confirm the truth of what he said . this surely ought at least to have made them more inquisitive into what he had affirmed ; but they allow him not the liberty of a fair tryall ; they hasten and precipitate the sentence , that they might do so the execution . if he were condemned as a false prophet ; ( for that seems to be the occasion of the sanhedrim meeting to do it , to whom the cognisance of that did particularly belong ) why do they not mention what it was he had foretold , which had not come to pass ; or what reason do they give why he had usurped such an office to himself ? if no liberty were allowed under pain of death for any to say , that they were sent from god , how was it possible for the messias ever to appear , and not be condemned ? for the expectation of him was , that he should be a great person immediately sent from god , for the delivery of his people . and should he be sent from god , and not say that he was so ? for how then could men know that he was ? so that their way of proceeding with him , discovers it self to be manifestly unjust , and contrary to their own avowed expectations . neither were they more successefull in the accusation of him before pilate ; why did not the witnesses appear to make good the charge of sedition and treason against him ? where were the proofs of any thing tending that way ? nay , that which abundantly testified the innocency of our saviour , as to all the matters he was accused of , was that the roman governour , after a full examination of the cause , declares him innocent , and that not only once but several times , and was fully satisfied in the vindication he made of himself ; so that nothing but the fear of what the jewes threatned , viz. accusing him to caesar ( a thing he had cause enough otherwise to be afraid of ) which made him at last yield to their importunity . but there was one circumstance more which did highly discover the innocency of christ , and the injustice of his sufferings , which was judas's confession and end ; the man who had betray'd his lord , and had receiv'd the wages of his iniquity ; but was so unquiet with it , that in the time when his other disciples durst not own him , he with a great impetus returns to them with his money , throws it among them with that sad farewell to them all , i have sinned , in that i have betrayed the innocent blood . what could have been said more for his vindication at this time than this was , by such a person as judas , one who had known our saviour long , and had been the fittest instrument , if any guilt could have been fasten'd upon him , to have managed the accusation against him ; but the anxiety of his minde was too great for what he had done already , to live to do them any longer service ; for either his grief suffocated him , or his guilt made him hang himself ; for the words will signifie either . neither can it be said by any modern jews , that all the testimony we have of these things is from his own disciples ; but that certainly they had some greater matter to accuse him of ; which we now have lost . for how is it possible to conceive , that a matter so important as that was , should be lost by those of their own nation , who were so highly concerned to vindicate themselves in all places , as soon as the gospel was spread abroad in the world ? for the guilt of this blood was every where by the chri●●ans charged upon them ; and their pro●… sufferings afterwards were imputed wholly by them to the shedding of that blood of christ , which by a most solemn imprecation they had said , should be upon them and their children . besides , how comes celsus , who personates a jew opposing christianity , to mention no other accusations against him but those recorded in the gospel ; and origen challenges him or any other person to charge him with any action which might deserve punishment . and which is very observable , porphyrie , one of the most inveterate enemies of christianity , and that took as much pains to write against it as any , and had more learning to do it with ; yet in his book of the philosophy of oracles , as s. augustin tells us , quotes an oracle wherein were these words concerning christ , and what became of him after his death ? it saith , that his soul was immortal , viri pietate praestantissimi est illa anima , and that it was the soul of a most excellent person for piety ; and being then asked , why he was condemned ? the answer only is , that the body ( of the best ) is exposed to weakning torments , but the soul rests in heavenly habitations . so that on no account can this contradiction appear to be otherwise than an act of great injustice and cruelty , and therefore must needs be the contradiction of sinners . . this contradiction of theirs to christ was an act of high ingratitude . it was a sharp but very just rebuke which the jews received from our saviour , when they were once ready to stone him ; many good works have i shewed you from my father , for which of those works do you stone me ? the very same might have been applyed to his judges and accusers , when they were about to crucifie him . for what was his whole life after he appeared publickly , but a constant design of doing good ? his presence had far more vertue for the curing all bodily distempers , than the pool of bethesda among the jews , or the temples of aesculapius among the gentiles . what wonders were made of very small things done by other persons , as the cure of a blinde man by vespasian ! when such multitudes of far more certain and considerable cures , can hardly keep up the reputation of any thing extraordinary in him . but though his kindness was great to the bodies of men , where they were fit objects of pity and compassion ; yet it was far greater to their souls , that being more agreeable to the design of his coming into the world ; for the other tended to raise such an esteem of him as might ma●… him the more successefull in the cure of their souls . and to shew , that this was his great business , wherever he comes , he discourses about these things , takes every opportunity that might be improved for that end , refuses no company he might do good upon , and converses not with them with the pride and arrogance of either the pharisees or philosophers , but with the greatest meekness , humility and patience . how admirable are his more solemn discourses , especially that upon the mount , and that wherein he takes leave of his disciples ! how dry and insipid are the most sublime discourses of the philosophers compared with these ! how clearly doth he state our duties , and what mighty encouragements does he give to practise them ! how forcibly does he perswade men to self-denyal and contempt of the world ! how excellent and holy are all his precepts ! how serviceable to the best interest of men in this life and that to come ! how suitable and desireable to the souls of good men are the rewards he promises ! what exact rule of righteousness hath he prescribed to men , in doing as they would be done by ! with what vehemency doth he rebuke all hypocrisie and pharisaism ! with what tenderness and kindness does he treat those that have any reall inclinations to true goodness ! with what earnestness does he invite , and with what love doth he embrace all repenting sinners ! with what care doth he instruct , with what mildness doth he reprove , with what patience doth he bear with his own disciples ! lastly , with what authority did he both speak and live , such as commanded a reverence , where it did not beget a love ! and yet after a life thus spent , all the requital he met with , was to be reproached , despised , and at last crucified . o the dreadfull effects of malice and hypocrisie ! for these were the two great enemies which he alwayes proclaimed open war with ; and these at first contrived , and at last effected his cruel death . what baseness , ingratitude , cruelty , injustice , ( and what not ? ) will those two sins betray men to , when they have once taken possession of the hearts of men ! for we can finde nothing else at the bottom of all that wretched conspiracy against our saviour ; but that his doctrine and design was too pure and holy for them ; and therefore they study to take him away who was the author of them . . we consider , in what way and manner , our saviour underwent all these sufferings ; and this as much as any thing is here propounded to our consideration . for it is not only who , or what , but in what manner he endured the contradiction of sinners , that we ought to consider , to prevent fainting and dejection of minde . so another apostle tells us , that christ suffered for us , leaving us an example , that we should follow his steps ; who did no sin , neither was guile found in his mouth ; who when he was reviled , reviled not again : when he suffered , be threatned not , but committed himself to him that judged righteously . he uses none of those ranting expressions which none of the patientest persons in the world were accustomed to ; of bidding them laugh in phalaris his bull ; and when they were racked with pains , to cry out , nil agis dolor : he tells them not , that it is their duty to have no sense of torments , and to be jocund and pleasant when their flesh is torn from them , or nailed to a cross ; if this be any kinde of fortitude , it is rather that of a gladiator than of a wise man or a christian. the worst of men either through a natural temper of body , or having hardned themselves by custom , have born the greatest torments with the least expression of grief under them . and panaetius , one of the wisest of the stoicks , is so far from making insensibleness of pain the property of a wise man , that he makes it not the property of a man. the inferiour creatures are call'd brutes from their dullness and insensibleness , and not meerly from want of reason , any further than that one follows from the other : bruta existimantur animalium quibus cor durum riget , saith pliny , those animals are call'd brutes which have the hardest hearts : and the nearer any of them approach to the nature of man , the more apprehensive they are of danger , and the more sensible of pain ; thence scaliger saith of the elephant , that it is maxima bellua , sed non maximè bruta , though it be the greatest beast , it is the least a brute . stupidity then under sufferings can be no part of the excellency of a man ; which in its greatest height is in the beings the most beneath him . but when danger is understood , and pain felt , and nature groans under it , then with patience and submission to undergo it , and to conquer all the strugglings of nature against it , that is the duty and excellency of a christian. if to express the least sense of grief and pain , be the highest excellency of suffering , the macedonian boy that suffer'd his flesh to be burnt by a coal , till it grew offensive to all about him , without altering the posture of his arm , lest he should disturb alexanders sacrifice , out-did the greatest philosophers of them all . possidonius his pitifull rant over a fit of the gout , so highly commended by pompey and tully ; o pain , it is to no purpose ; though thou beest troublesome , i will never confess thou art evil ; falls extremely short of the resolution of the macedonian boy , or any of the spartan youths , who would not in the midst of torments so much as confess them troublesome . and what a mighty revenge was that , that he would not confess it to be evil , when his complaint that it was troublesome , was a plain argument that he thought it so . it is not then the example of zeno or cleanthes , or the rules of stoicisme , which dionysius heracleotes , in a fit of the stone complained of the folly of , that are to be the measures of patience , and courage in bearing sufferings ; but the example and precepts of our lord and saviour , who expressed a great sense of his sufferings , but withall the greatest submission under them . when lipsius lay a dying , and one of the by-standers knowing how conversant he had been in the stoicks writings , began to suggest some of their precepts to him , vana sunt ista , said he , i find all those but vain things ; and beholding the picture of our saviour near his bed , he pointed to that , and cryed , haec vera est patientia : there is the true pattern of patience . for , notwithstanding that agony he was in , immediately before his being betray'd , when he sees the officers coming towards him , he asks them whom they seek for ? and tells them , i am he ; which words so astonished them , that they went back , and fell upon the ground : thereby letting them understand how easie a matter it was for him to have escaped their hands ; and that it was his own free consent , that he went to suffer , for he knew certainly before hand , the utmost that he was to undergo , and therefore it was no unreasonable impetus , but a settled resolution of his minde to endure all the contradictions of sinners . when he was spi● upon , mocked , reproached and scourged , none of all these could draw one impatient expression from him . the malice and rage of his enemies did not at all provoke him ; unless it were to pity and pray for them . and that he did , with great earnestness in the midst of all his pains : and though he would not plead for himself to them , yet he pleads for them to god ; father , forgive them , for they know not what they do . how much more divine was this , than the admired theramenes among the greeks , who being condemned to dye by the thirty tyrants , when he was drinking off his cup of poyson , said , he drank that to critias , one of his most bitter enemies , and hoped he would pledge it shortly . socrates seemed not to express seriousness enough at least , when he bid one of his friends , when he was dying , offer up a cock to aesculapius for his deliverance . aristides and phocion among the greeks came the nearest to our saviours temper , when one pray'd , that his countrey might have no cause to remember him when he was gone , and the other charged his son , to forget the injuries they had done him ; but yet by how much the greater the person and office was of our blessed saviour , than of either of them , by how much the cruelty and ignominy , as well as pain was greater which they exposed him to , by how much greater concernment there is to have such an offence pardon'd by one that can punish it with eternal misery , than not revenged by those , who though they may have will , have not alwayes power to execute ; so much greater was the kindness of our saviour to his enemies , in his prayer upon the cross , than of either of the other , in their concernment for that ungratefull city , that had so ill requited their services to it . thus when the son of god was oppressed , and afflicted , he opened not his mouth , but only in prayer for them , who were his bitter enemies ; and though nothing had been more easie than for him to have cleared himself from all their accusations , who had so often baffled them before ; yet he would not now give them that suspicion of his innocency , as to make any apology for himself ; but committed himself to god that judges righteously , and was brought as a lamb to the slaughter , and as a sheep before her shearers was dumb , so he opened not his mouth . and the reason thereof was , he knew what further design for the good of mankind was carrying on by the bitterness of his passion , and that all the cruel usage he underwent , was that he might be a sacrifice of atonement for the sins of the world. which leads to the last thing propounded to our consideration . . which is , the causes why god was pleased to suffer his son to endure such contradiction of sinners against himself . i know it is an easie answer to say , that god had determin'd it should be so , and that we ought to enquire no further : but sure such an answer can satisfie none who consider , how much our salvation depends upon the knowledge of it , and how clear and express the scripture is in assigning the causes of the sufferings of christ. which though as far as the instruments were concerned in it , we have given an account of already , yet considering the particular management of this grand affair by the care of divine providence , a higher account must be given of it , why so divine and excellent a person should be exposed to all the contempt and reproach imaginable , and after being made a sacrifice to the tongues and rods of the people , than to dye a painfull and ignominious death ? so that allowing but that common care of divine providence , which all sober heathens acknowledged , so transcendent sufferings as these were , of so holy and innocent a person , ought to be accounted for , in a more than ordinary manner ; when they thought themselves concerned to vindicate the justice of gods providence in the common calamities of those who are reputed to be better than the generality of mankind . but the reasons assigned in that common case will not hold here , since this was a person immediately sent from god upon a particular message to the world , and therefore might plead an exemption by vertue of his ambassage from the common arrests and troubles of humane nature . but it was so far otherwise , as though god had designed him on purpose to let us see how much misery humane nature can undergo . some think themselves to go as far as their reason will permit them ; when they tell us , that he suffer'd all these things to confirm the truth of what he had said , and particularly the promise of remission of sins , and that he might be an example to others , who should go to heaven by suffering afterwards , and that he might , being touched with the feeling of our infirmities here , have the greater pity upon us now he is in heaven . all these i grant to have been true and weighty reasons of the sufferings of christ , in subordination ●o greater ends , but if there had been nothing beyond all this , i can neither understand why he should suffer so deeply as he did , nor why the scripture should insist upon a far greater reason more than upon any of these ? i grant , the death of christ did confirm the truth of his doctrine , as far as it is unreasonable to believe that any one who knew his doctrine to be false , would make himself miserable to make others believe it ; but if this had been all intended , why would not an easier and less ignominious death have served ? since he who would be willing to die to confirm a falshood , would not be thought to confirm a truth by his death , because it was painfull and shamefull . why , if all his sufferings were designed as a testimony to others , of the truth of what he spake , were the greatest of his sufferings , such as none could know the anguish of them but himself , i mean his agony in the garden , and that which made him cry out upon the cross , my god , my god , why hast thou forsaken me ? why were not his miracles enough to confirm the truth of his doctrine ? since the law of moses was received without his death , by the evidence his miracles gave that he was sent from god ; since the doctrine of remission of sins had been already deliver'd by the prophets , and received by the people of the jews ; since those who would not believe for his miracles sake , neither would they believe though they should have seen him rise from the grave , and therefore not surely because they saw him put into it . but of all things , the manner of our saviours sufferings seems least designed to bring the world to the belief of his doctrine , which was the main obstacle to the entertainment of it among the men of greatest reputation for wisdom and knowledge . for it was christ crucified , which was to the jews a stumbling block , and to the greeks foolishness . had the apostles only preached that the son of god had appeared from heaven , and discovered the only way to bring men thither , that he assumed our nature for a time to render himself capable of conversing with us , and therein had wrought many strange and stupendious miracles , but after he had sufficiently acquainted the world with the nature of his doctrine , he was again assumed up into heaven ; in all probability , the doctrine might have been so easily received by the world , as might have saved the lives of many thousand persons , who dyed as martyrs for it . and if it had been necessary that some must have dyed to confirm it , why must the son of god himself do it ? when he had so many disciples who willingly sacrificed their lives for him , and whose death would on that account have been as great a confirmation of the truth of it as his own . but if it be alledged further , that god now entring into a covenant with man for the pardon of sin , the sheding of the blood of christ was necessary as a federal rite to confirm it . i answer , if only as a federal rite , why no cheaper blood would serve to confirm it but that of the son of god ? we never read that any covenant was confirmed by the death of one of the contracting parties ; and we cannot think that god was so prodigal of the blood of his son , to have it shed only in allusion to some ancient customs . but if there were such a necessity of alluding to them , why might not the blood of any other person have done it ? when yet all that custom was no more , but that a sacrifice should be offer'd , and upon the parts of the sacrifice divided , they did solemnly swear and ratifie their covenant . and if this be yielded them , it then follows from this custom , that christ must be consider'd as a sacrifice in his death ; and so the ratification of the covenant must be consequent to that oblation which he made of himself upon the cross. besides , how incongruous must this needs be , that the death of christ the most innocent person in the world , without any respect to the guilt of sin , should suffer so much on purpose to assure us , that god will pardon those who are guilty of it ? may we not much rather infer the contrary , considering the holiness and justice of gods nature ; if he dealt so severely with the green tree , how much more will he with the dry ? if one so innocent suffer'd so much , what then may the guilty expect ? if a prince should suffer the best subject he hath , to be severely punished , could ever any imagine that it was with a design to assure them that he would pardon the most rebellious ? no ; but would it not rather make men afraid of being too innocent , for fear of suffering too much for it ? and those who seem very carefull to preserve the honour of gods justice , in not punishing one for anothers faults , ought likewise to maintain it in the punishing of one who had no fault at all to answer for . and to think to escape this by saying , that to such a person such things are calamities , but no punishments , is to revive the ancient exploded stoicism , which thought to reform the diseases of mankind by meer changeing the names of things , though never so contrary to the common sense of humane nature : which judges of the nature of punishments by the evils men undergo , and the ends they are designed for . and by the very same reason that god might exercise his dominion on so innocent a person as our saviour was , without any respect to sin as the moving cause to it , he might lay eternal torments on a most innocent creature ( for degrees and continuance do not alter the reason of things ) and then escape with the same evasion , that this was no act of injustice in god , because it was a meer exercise of dominion . and when once a sinner comes to be perswaded by this that god will pardon him , it must be by the hopes that god will shew kindness to the guilty , because he shews so little to the innocent ; and if this be agreeable to the justice and holiness of gods nature , it is hard to say what is repugnant to it . if to this it be said , that christs consent made it no unjust exercise of dominion in god towards him : it is easily answer'd , that the same consent will make it less injustice in god to lay the punishment of our sins upon christ , upon his undertaking to satisfie for us ; for then the consent supposes a meritorious cause of punishment ; but in this case the consent implyeth none at all . and we are now enquiring into the reasons of such sufferings , and consequently of such a consent ; which cannot be imagined but upon very weighty motives , such as might make it just in him to consent , as well as in god to inflict . neither can it be thought that all the design of the sufferings of christ , was to give us an example and an incouragement to suffer our selves ; though it does so in a very great measure , as appears by the text it self . for the hopes of an eternal reward for these short and light afflictions , ought to be encouragement enough , to go through the miseries of this life in expectation of a better to come . and the cloud of witnesses , both under the law and the gospel , of those who have suffer'd for righteousness sake , ought to make no one think it strange , if he must endure that , which so many have done before him , and been crowned for it . and lastly , to question whether christ could have pity enough upon us in our sufferings , unless he had suffer'd so deeply himself ; will lead men to distrust the pity and compassion of almighty god , because he was never capable of suffering , as we do . but the scripture is very plain and full ( to all those who rack not their minds to pervert it ) in assigning a higher reason than all these of the sufferings of christ , viz. that christ suffered for sins , the just for the unjust ; that his soul was made an offering for sin , and that the lord therefore as on a sacrifice of atonement , laid on him the iniquities of us all : that , through the eternal spirit , he offer'd himself without spot to god , and did appear to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself ; that he was made a propitiation for our sins ; that , he laid down his life as a price of redemption for mankinde ; that , through his blood we obtain redemption , even the forgiveness of sins , which in a more particular manner is attributed to the blood of christ , as the procuring cause of it . that he dyed to reconcile god and us together ; and that the ministery of reconciliation , is founded on gods making him to be sin for us who knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him : and that we may not think that all this reconciliation respects us and not god ; he is said to offer up himself to god ; and for this cause to be a mediator of the new testament , and to be a faithfull high-priest in things pertaining to god , to make reconciliation for the sins of the people : and every high-priest , taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to god ; not appointed by god in things meerly tending to the good of men ; which is rather the office of a prophet than a priest. so that from all these places it may easily appear , that the blood of christ is to be looked on as a sacrifice of atonement for the sins of the world. not as though christ did suffer the very same which we should have suffer'd , for that was eternal death as the consequent of guilt in the person of the offender , and then the discharge must have been immediately consequent upon the payment , and no room had been left for the freeness of remission , or for the conditions required on our parts ; but that god was pleased to accept of the death of his son , as a full , perfect , sufficient sacrifice , oblation , and satisfaction for the sins of the world ; as our church expresseth it ; and in consideration of the sufferings of his son , is pleased to offer pardon of sin upon sincere repentance , and eternal life upon a holy obedience to his will. thus much for the things we are to consider concerning the contradiction of sinners which christ endured against himself . nothing now remains , but the influence that ought to have upon us , lest we be weary and faint in our minds . for which end i shall suggest two things . . the vast disproportion between christs sufferings and ours . . the great encouragement we have from his sufferings , to bear our own the better . . the vast disproportion between christs sufferings and our own . our lot is fallen into suffering times ; and we are apt enough to complain of it . i will not say it is wholly true of us , what the moralist saith generally of the complaints of men , non quia dura sed quia molles patimur ; that it is not the hardness of our conditions so much as the softness of our spirits which makes us complain of them . for i must needs say , this city hath smarted by such a series and succession of judgements which few cities in the world could parallel in so short a time . the plague hath emptied its houses , and the fire consumed them ; the war exhausted our spirits , and it were well if peace recovered them . but still these are but the common calamities of humane nature , things that we ought to make account of in the world ; and to grow the better by them . and it were happy for this city ; if our thankfulness and obedience were but answerable to the mercies we yet enjoy : let us not make our condition worse by our fears ; nor our fears greater than they need to be : for no enemy can be so bad as they . thanks be to god our condition is much better at present than it hath been ; let us not make it worse by fearing it may be so . complaints will never end till the world does ; and we may imagine that will not last much longer ; when the city thinks it hath trade enough , and the countrey riches enough . but i will not go about to perswade you that your condition is better than it is , for i know it is to no purpose to do so ; all men will believe as they feel . but suppose our condition were much worse than it is ; yet what were all our sufferings compared with those of our saviour for us ? the sins that make us smart , wounded him much deeper ; they pierced his side , which only touch our skin ; we have no cause to complain of the bitterness of that cup which he hath drunk off the dreggs of already . we lament over the ruins of a city , and are revived with any hopes of seeing it rise out of the dust ; but christ saw the ruins that sin caused in all mankind , he undertook the repairing them , and putting men into a better condition than before : and we may easily think what a difficult task he had of it ; when he came to restore them who were delighted in their ruins , and thought themselves too good to be mended . it is the comfort of our miseries , ( if they be only in this life ) that we know they cannot last long ; but that is the great aggravation of our saviours sufferings , that the contradiction of sinners continues against him still . witness , the atheisme , i cannot so properly call it , as the antichristianism of this present age ; wherein so many profane persons act over again the part of the scribes and pharisees ; they slight his doctrine , despise his person , disparage his miracles , contemn his precepts , and undervalue his sufferings . men live as if it were in defiance to his holy laws ; as though they feared not what god can do , so much as to need a mediator between him and them . if ever men tread under foot the son of god , it is when they think themselves to be above the need of him ; if ever they count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing , it is not only when they do not value it as they ought , but when they exercise their profane wits upon it . blessed saviour ! was it not enough for thee to bear the contradiction of sinners upon earth ; but thou must still suffer so much at the hands of those whom thou dyedst for , that thou mightest bring them to heaven ? was it not enough for thee to be betrayed on earth , but thou must be defied in heaven ? was it not enough for thee to stoop so low for our sakes , but that thou shouldest be trampled on because thou didst it ? was the ignominious death upon the cross too small a thing for thee to suffer in thy person , unless thy religion be contemned , and exposed to as much shame and mockery as thy self was ? unhappy we , that live to hear of such things ! but much more unhappy if any of our sins have been the occasion of them : if our unsuitable lives to the gospel have open'd the mouths of any against so excellent a religion . if any malice and revenge , any humour and peevishness , any pride or hypocrisie , any sensuality and voluptuousness , any injustice , or too much love of gain , have made others despise that religion which so many pretend to , and so few practise . if we have been in any measure guilty of this , as we love our religion , and the honour of our saviour , let us endeavour by the holiness and meekness of our spirits , the temperance and justice of our actions , the patience and contentedness of our minds , to recover the honour of that religion which only can make us happy , and our posterity after us . . what encouragement we have from the sufferings of christ , to bear our own the better ; because we see by his example that god deals no more hardly with us , than he did with his own son , if he layes heavy things upon us . why should we think to escape , when his own son underwent so much ? if we meet with reproaches , and ill usage , with hard measure , and a mean condition , with injuries and violence , with mockings and affronts , nay with a shamefull and a painfull death , what cause have we to complain , for did not the son of god undergo all these things before us ? if any of your habitations have been consumed , that you have been put to your shifts where to lodge your selves , or your families ; consider , that though the foxes have holes , and the birds of the air have nests , yet the son of man had not whereon to lay his head . if your condition be mean and low , think of him , who being in the form of god , took upon him the form of a servant ; and though he was rich , yet for your sakes he became poor , that through his poverty ye might be made rich . if you are unjustly defamed and reproached , consider what contumelies and disgraces the son of god underwent for you . if you are in pain and trouble , think of his agony and bloody sweat , the nailing of his hands and feet to the cross , to be a sacrifice for the expiation of your sins . never think much of undergoing any thing , whereby you may be conformable to the image of the son of god , knowing this , that if ye suffer with him , ye shall also be glorified together . and you have never yet set a true estimate and value upon things , if you reckon the sufferings of this present life worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed . which glory ought alwayes to bear up our minds under our greatest afflictions here ; and the thoughts of that , will easily bring us to the thoughts of his sufferings , who by his own blood purchased an eternal redemption for us . therefore , consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself , lest ye be weary , and faint in your mindes . finis . a discourse concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ . by edward stillingfleet , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london , printed by r. white , for henry mortlock , and are to be sold at his shop , at the sign of the white hart in westminster hall. . a discourse concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ. chap. i. of the socinian way of interpreting scripture . of the uncertainty it leaves us in as to the main articles of faith , manifested by an exposition of gen. . suitable to that way . the state of the controversie in general concerning the sufferings of christ for us . he did not suffer the same we should have done . the grand mistake in making punishments of the nature of debts ; the difference between them at large discover'd , from the different reason and ends of them . the right of punishment in god , proved against crellius , not to arise from meer dominion . the end of punishment not bare compensation , as it is in debts ; what punishment due to an injured person by the right of nature ; proper punishment a result of laws . crellius his great mistake about the end of punishments . not designed for satisfaction of anger as it is a desire of revenge . seneca and lactantius vindicated against crellius . the magistrates interest in punishment distinct from that of private persons . of the nature of anger in god , and the satisfaction to be made to it . crellius his great arguments against satisfaction depend on a false n●tion of gods anger . of the ends of divine punishments , and the different nature of them in this and the future state . sir , although the letter i receiv'd from your hands contained in it so many mistakes of my meaning and design , that it seemed to be the greatest civility to the writer of it , to give no answer at all to it ; because that could not be done , without the discovery of far more weaknesses in him , than he pretends to finde in my discourse : yet the weight and importance of the matter may require a further account from me , concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ. wherein my design was so far from representing old errors to the best advantage , or to rack my wits to defend them , as that person seems to suggest ; that i aimed at nothing more than to give a true account of what upon a serious enquiry , i judged to be the most natural and genuine meaning of the christian doctrine contained in the writings of the new testament . for finding therein such multitudes of expressions which to an unprejudiced mind attribute all the mighty effects of the love of god to us , to the obedience and sufferings of christ. i began to consider what reason there was why the plain and easie sense of those places must be forsaken , and a remote and metaphorical meaning put upon them . which i thought my self the more obliged to doe , because i could not conceive if it had been the design of the scripture , to have delivered the received doctrine of the christian church , concerning the reason of the sufferings of christ , that it could have been more clearly and fully expressed than it is already . so that supposing that to have been the true meaning of the several places of scripture which we contend for ; yet the same arts and subtilties might have been used to pervert it , which are imploy'd to perswade men that is not the true meaning of them . and what is equally serviceable to truth and falshood , can of it self , have no power on the minds of men to convince them it must be one , and not the other . nay , if every unusual and improper acception of words in the scripture , shall be thought sufficient to take away the natural and genuine sense , where the matter is capable of it ; i know scarce any article of faith can be long secure ; and by these arts men may declare that they believe the scriptures , and yet believe nothing of the christian faith. for if the improper , though unusual acception of those expressions of christs dying for us , of redemption , propitiation , reconciliation by his blood , of his bearing our iniquities , and being made sin and a curse for us , shall be enough to invalidate all the arguments taken from them to prove that which the proper sense of them doth imply ; why may not the improper use of the terms of creation and resurrection , as well take away the natural sense of them in the great articles of the creation of the world , and resurrection after death . for if it be enough to prove that christs dying for us , doth not imply dying in our stead ; because sometimes dying for others imports no more than dying for some advantage to come to them ; if redemption being sometimes used for meer deliverance , shall make our redemption by christ , wholly metaphorical ; if the terms of propitiation , reconciliation , &c. shall lose their force because they are sometimes used where all things cannot be supposed parallel with the sense we contend for : why shall i be bound to believe that the world was ever created in a proper sense , since those persons against whom i argue , so earnestly contend that in those places in which it seems as proper as any , it is to be understood only in a metaphorical . if when the world and all things are said to be made by christ , we are not to understand the production but the reformation of the world and all things in it , although the natural sense of the words be quite otherwise ; what argument can make it necessary for me not to understand the creation of the world in a metaphorical sense , when moses delivers to us the history of it ? why may not i understand in the beginning , gen. . for the beginning of the mosaical dispensation , as well as socinus doth in the beginning , john . for the beginning of the evangelical ? and that from the very same argument used by him , viz. that in the beginning is to be understood of the main subject concerning which the author intends to write , and that i am as sure it was in moses concerning the law given by him , as it was in s. john , concerning the gospel deliver'd by christ. why may not the creation of the heavens and the earth , be no more than the erection of the jewish polity ? since it is acknowledged , that by new heavens and new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness , no more is understood than a new state of things under the gospel ? why may not the confused chaos import no more than the state of ignorance and darkness under which the world was before the law of moses ? since it is confessed that it signifies in the new testament such a state of the world before the gospel appeared ? and consequently , why may not the light which made the first day be the first tendencies to the doctrine of moses , which being at first divided and scattered , was united afterwards in one great body of laws , which was call'd the sun , because it was the great director of the jewish nation , and therefore said to rule the day ; as the less considerable laws of other nations are called the moon , because they were to govern those who were yet under the night of ignorance ? why may not the firmament being in the midst of the waters , imply the erection of the jewish state in the midst of a great deal of trouble , since it is confessed , that waters are often taken in scripture in a metaphorical sense for troubles and afflictions ? and the earth appearing out of the waters , be no more but the settlement of that state after its troubles ; and particularly with great elegancy after their passage through the red sea ? and the production of herbs and living creatures , be the great encrease of the people of all sorts , as well those of a meaner rank ( and therefore call'd herbs ) as those of a higher , that were to live upon the other , and sometimes trample upon them , and therefore by way of excellency call'd the living creatures ? and when these were multiplyed and brought into order , ( which being done by steps and degrees , is said to be finished in several dayes ) then the state and the church flourished , and enjoy'd a great deal of pleasure , which was the production of man and woman , and their being placed in paradise ( for a perfect man , notes a high degree of perfection , and a woman is taken for the church in the revelations ) : but when they followed the customs of other nations which were as a forbidden tree to them , than they lost all their happiness and pleasure , and were expelled out of their own countrey , and lived in great slavery and misery , which was the curse pronounced against them , for violating the rules of policy established among them . thus you see how small a measure of wit , by the advantage of those wayes of interpreting scripture , which the subtilest of our adversaries make use of , will serve to pervert the clearest expressions of scripture to quite another sense than was ever intended by the writer of them . and i assure you , if that rule of interpreting scripture be once allowed , that where words are ever used in a metaphorical sense , there can be no necessity of understanding them in a proper ; there is scarce any thing which you look on as the most necessary to be believed in scripture , but it may be made appear not to be so upon those terms : for by reason of the paucity and therefore the ambiguity of the original words of the hebrew language , the strange idioms of it , the different senses of the same word in several conjugations , the want of several modes of expression which are used in other languages , and above all the lofty and metaphorical way of speaking used in all eastern countreys , and the imitation of the hebrew idioms in the greek translation of the old testament , and original of the new , you can hardly affix a sense upon any words used therein , but a man who will be at the pains to search all possible significations and uses of those words , will put you hard to it , to make good that which you took to be the proper meaning of them . wherefore although i will not deny to our adversaries the praise of subtilty and diligence , i cannot give them that , ( which is much more praise worthy ) viz. of discretion and sound judgement . for while they use their utmost industry to search all the most remote and metaphorical senses of words , with a design to take off the genuine and proper meaning of them , they do not attend to the ill consequence that may be made of this to the overthrowing those things , the belief of which themselves make necessary to salvation . for by this way the whole gospel may be made an allegory , and the resurrection of christ be thought as metaphorical as the redemption by his death , and the force of all the precepts of the gospel avoided by some unusual signification of the words wherein they are delivered . so that nothing can be more unreasonable than such a method of proceeding , unless it be first sufficiently proved that the matter is not capable of the proper sense , and therefore of necessity the improper only is to be allowed . and this is that which socinus seems after all his pains to pervert the meaning of the places in controversie , to rely on most ; viz. that the doctrine of satisfaction doth imply an impossibility in the thing it self , and therefore must needs be false ; nay , he saith the infallibility of the revealer had not been enough in this case , supposing that christ had said it , and risen from the dead , to declare his own veracity ; unless he had declared it by its proper causes and effects , and so shewed the possibility of the thing it self . and the reason , he saith , why they believe their doctrine true , is not barely because god hath said it , but they believe certainly that god hath said it , because they know it to be true ; by knowing the contrary doctrine to be impossible . the controversie then , concerning the meaning of the places in dispute is to be resolved from the nature and reasonableness of the matter contained in them : for if socinus his reason were answerable to his confidence , if the account we give of the sufferings of christ , were repugnant not only to the justice , goodness and grace of god , but to the nature of the thing ; if it appear impossible , that mankinde should be redeemed in a proper sense , or that god should be propitiated by the death of his son as a sacrifice for sin ; if it enervate all the precepts of obedience , and tends rather to justifie sins than those who do repent of them , i shall then agree , that no industry can be too great in searching authors , comparing places , examining versions , to finde out such a sense as may be agreeable to the nature of things , the attributes of god , and the design of christian religion . but if on the contrary , the scripture doth plainly assert those things from whence our doctrine follows , and without which no reasonable account can be given either of the expressions used therein , or of the sufferings of christ ; if christs death did immediately respect god as a sacrifice , and were paid as a price for our redemption ; if such a design of his death be so far from being repugnant to the nature of god , that it highly manifests his wisdom , justice and mercy ; if it assert nothing but what is so far from being impossible , that it is very reconcileable to the common principles of reason , as well as the free-grace of god in the pardon of sin ; if , being truely understood , it is so far from enervating , that it advances highly all the purposes of christian religion , then it can be no less than a betraying one of the grand truths of the christian doctrine , not to believe ours to be the true sense of the places in controversie . and this is that which i now take upon me to maintain . for our clearer proceeding herein , nothing will be more necessary , than to understand the true state of the controversie ; which hath been rendred more obscure by the mistakes of some , who have managed it with greater zeal than judgement ; who have asserted more than they needed to have done , and made our adversaries assert much less than they do : and by this means have shot over their adversaries heads , and laid their own more open to assaults . it is easie to observe , that most of socinus his arguments are levell'd against an opinion , which few who have considered these things do maintain , and none need to think themselves obliged to do it ; which is , that christ paid a proper and rigid satisfaction for the sins of men , considered under the notion of debts , and that he paid the very same , which we ought to have done ; which in the sense of the law , is never call'd satisfaction , but strict payment . against this , socinus disputes from the impossibility of christs paying the very same that we were to have paid ; because our penalty was eternal death , and that as the consequent of inherent guilt , which christ neither did nor could undergo . neither is it enough to say , that christ had undergone eternal death , unless he had been able to free himself from it ; for the admission of one to pay for another , who could discharge the debt in much less time than the offenders could , was not the same which the law required . for that takes no notice of any other than the persons who had sinned ; and if a mediator could have paid the same , the original law must have been disjunctive ; viz. that either the offender must suffer , or another for him ; but then the gospel had not been the bringing in of a better covenant , but a performance of the old . but if there be a relaxation or dispensation of the first law , then it necessarily follows , that what christ paid , was not the very same which the first law required ; for what need of that , when the very same was paid that was in the obligation ? but if it be said , that the dignity of the person makes up , what wanted in the kind or degree of punishment : this is a plain confession that it is not the same , but some thing equivalent , which answers the ends of the sanction , as much as the same would have done , which is the thing we contend for . besides , if the very same had been paid in the strict sense , there would have followed a deliverance ipso facto ; for the release immediately follows the payment of the same : and it had been injustice to have required any thing further , in order to the discharge of the offender , when strict and full payment had been made of what was in the obligation . but we see that faith and repentance , and the consequences of those two , are made conditions on our parts , in order to the enjoying the benefit of what christ hath procured : so that the release is not immediate upon the payment , but depends on a new contract , made in consideration of what christ hath done and suffered for us . if it be said , that by christs payment we become his , and he requires these conditions of us ; besides the contrariety of it to the scriptures , which make the conditions to be required by him to whom the payment was made ; we are to consider , that these very persons assert , that christ paid all for us , and in our name and stead ; so that the payment by christ , was by a substitution in our room ; and if he paid the same which the law required , the benefit must immediately accrue to those in whose name the debt was paid : for what was done in the name of another , is all one to the creditor , as if it had been done by the debtor himself . but above all things , it is impossible to reconcile the freeness of remission , with the full payment of the very same which was in the obligation . neither will it serve to say , that though it was not free to christ , yet it was to us : for the satisfaction and remission must respect the same person ; for christ did not pay for himself , but for us , neither could the remission be to him : christ therefore is not considered in his own name , but as acting in our stead ; so that what was free to him , must be to us ; what was exactly paid by him , it is all one as if it had been done by us , so that it is impossible the same debt should be fully paid and freely forgiven . much less will it avoid the difficulty in this case to say , that it was a refusable payment ; for it being supposed to be the very same , it was not in justice refusable ; and however not in equity , if it answer the intention of the law , as much as the suffering of the offenders had done ; and the more it doth that , the less refusable it is . and although god himself found out the way , that doth not make the pardon free , but the designation of the person who was to pay the debt . thus when our adversaries dispute against this opinion , no wonder if they do it successfully ; but this whole opinion is built upon a mistake , that satisfaction must be the payment of the very same ; which while they contend for , they give our adversaries too great an advantage , and make them think they triumph over the faith of the church , when they do it onely over the mistake of some particular persons . but the foundation of this mistake , lies in the consideration of punishment , under the notion of debts , and that satisfaction therefore must be by strict payment in rigor of law ; but how great that mistake is , will appear in the subsequent discourse : but it cannot but be wondred at , that the very same persons who consider sins , as debts which must be strictly satisfied for , do withal contend for the absolute necessity of this satisfaction ; whereas socinus his arguments would hold good , if sins were onely considered as debts , and god as the meer creditor of punishment , he might as freely part with his own right without satisfaction , as any creditor may forgive what sum he pleases , to a person indebted to him ; and no reason can be brought to the contrary , from that notion of sins , why he may not do it . but if they be considered with a respect to gods government of the world , and the honour of his laws , then some further account may be given , why it may not be consistent with that , to pass by the sins of men , without satisfaction made to them . and because the mistake in this matter , hath been the foundation of most of the subsequent mistakes on both sides , and the discovery of the cause of errours , doth far more to the cure of them , than any arguments brought against them ; and withall , the true understanding of the whole doctrine of satisfaction depends upon it , i shall endeavour to make clear the notion under which our sins are considered ; for upon that , depends the nature of the satisfaction which is to be made for them . for while our adversaries suppose , that sins are to be looked on under the notion of debts in this debate , they assert it to be wholly free for god to remit them , without any satisfaction . they make the right of punishment meerly to depend on gods absolute dominion ; and that all satisfaction must be considered under the notion of compensation , for the injuries done to him , to whom it is to be made . but if we can clearly shew a considerable difference between the notion of debts and punishments , if the right of punishment doth not depend upon meer dominion , and that satisfaction by way of punishment , is not primarily intended for compensation , but for other ends , we shall make not onely the state of the controversie much clearer , but offer something considerable towards the resolution of it . the way i shall take for the proof of the difference between debts and punishments , shall be using the other for the arguments for it . for besides , that those things are just in matter of debts , which are not so in the case of punishments ; as , that it is lawful for a man to forgive all the debts which are owing him by all persons , though they never so contumaciously refuse payment , but our adversaries will not say so in the case of sins ; for although they assert , that the justice of god doth never require punishment in case of repentance , but withall they assert , that in case of impenitency , it is not onely agreeable , but due to the nature and decrees ; and therefore to the rectitude and equity of god not to give pardon . but if this be true , then there is an apparent difference between the notion of debts and punishments ; for the impenitency doth but add to the greatness of the debt : and will they say , it is onely in gods power to remit small debts , but he must punish the greatest ? what becomes then of gods absolute liberty to part with his own right ? will not this shew more of his kindness to pardon the greater , rather than lesser offenders ? but if there be something in the nature of the thing , which makes it not onely just , but necessary for impenitent sinners to be punished , as crellius after socinus frequently acknowledges ; then it is plain , that sins are not to be considered meerly as debts ; for that obstinacy and impenitency is onely punished as a greater degree of sin , and therefore as a greater debt . and withall , those things are lawful in the remission of debts , which are unjust in the matter of punishments ; as it is lawful for a creditor , when two persons are considered in equal circumstances , to remit one , and not the other ; nay , to remit the greater debt , without any satisfaction , and to exact the lesser to the greatest extremity ; but it is unjust in matter of punishments , where the reason and circumstances are the same , for a person who hath committed a crime of very dangerous consequence , to escape unpunished , and another who hath been guilty of far less to be severely executed . besides these considerations , i say i shall now prove the difference of debts and punishments , from those two things whereby things are best differenced from each other ; viz. the different reason , and the different end of them . the different reason of debts and punishments : the reason of debts is dominion and property , and the obligation of of them , depends upon voluntary contracts between parties ; but the reason of punishments is justice and government , and depends not upon meer contracts , but the relation the person stands in to that authority he is accountable for his actions to . for if the obligation to punishment , did depend upon meer contract , than none could justly be punished , but such who have consented to it by an antecedent contract : if it be said , that a contract is implied , by their being in society with others ; that is as much as i desire to make the difference appear , for in case of debts , the obligation depends upon the voluntary contract of the person ; but in case of punishments , the very relation to government , and living under laws doth imply it . and the right of punishment depends upon the obligation of laws , where the reason of them holds , without any express contract , or superiority of one over another ; as in the case of violation of the law of nations , that gives right to another nation to punish the infringers of it . otherwise wars could never be lawful between two nations , and none could be warrantable , but those of a prince against his rebellious subjects , who have broken the laws themselves consented expresly to . besides , in case of debts , every man is bound to pay , whether he be call'd upon or no ; but in case of punishments , no man is bound to betray or accuse himself . for the obligation to payment in case of debt , ariseth from the injury sustained by that particular person , if another detains what is his own from him ; but the obligation to punishment , arises from the injury the publick sustains by the impunity of crimes , of which the magistrates are to take care ; who by the dispensing of punishments , do shew that to be true which grotius asserts , that if there be any creditor to be assigned in punishment , it is the publick good : which appears by this , that all punishments are proportioned , according to the influence the offences have upon the publick interest ; for the reason of punishment is not because a law is broken , but because the breach of a law tends to dissolve the community , by infringing the authority of the laws , and the honour of those who are to take care of them . for if we consider it , the measure of punishments is in a well ordered state , taken from the influence which crimes have upon the peace and interest of the community . no man questions ' , but that malice , pride and avarice , are things really as bad as many faults , that are severely punished by humane laws ; but the reason these are not punished is , because they do not so much injury to the publick interest , as theft and robbery do . besides , in those things wherein the laws of a nation are concerned , the utmost rigor is not used in the preventing of crimes , or the execution of them when committed , if such an execution may endanger the publick more , than the impunity of the offenders may do . and there are some things which are thought fit to be forbidden , where the utmost means are not used to prevent them ; as merchants are forbidden to steal customs , but they are not put under an oath not to do it . and when penalties have been deserved , the execution of them hath been deferred , till it may be most for the advantage of the publick : as joabs punishment till solomons reign , though he deserved it as much in davids . so that the rule commonly talked of , fiat justitia & pereat mundus , is a piece of pedantry , rather than true wisdom ; for whatever penalty inflicted , brings a far greater detriment to the publick , than the forbearance of it , is no piece of justice to the state , but the contrary ; the greatest law , being the safety and preservation of the whole body . by which it appears , that in humane laws , the reason of punishment is not , that such an action is done , but because the impunity in doing it , may have a bad influence on the publick interest ; but in debts , the right of restitution depends upon the injury received by a particular person , who looks at no more than the reparation of his loss by it . we are now to consider , how far these things will hold in divine laws , and what the right of punishment doth result from there . for crellius , the subtillest of our adversaries , knowing how great consequence the resolution of this is , in the whole controversie of satisfaction , vehemently contends , that the right of punishment doth result from gods absolute dominion , and therefore he is to be considered as the offended party , and not as governor in the right of inflicting punishment ; for which his first argument is , that our obedience is due to gods law , on the account of his dominion ; but when that is not performed , the penalty succeeds in its room , and therefore that doth belong to god on the same account : his other arguments are , from the compensation of injuries due to the offended party , and from gods anger against sin , in which he is to be considered as the offended party : these two latter will be answered under the next head ; the first i am to examine here . he therefore tells us , that the right of punishment belongs to gods dominion , because the reason of his government of mankind is , because he is the lord of them . but , for our better understanding this , we are to consider , although the original right of government doth result from gods dominion ; for therefore our obedience is due , because of his soveraignty over us ; yet when god takes upon him the notion of a governor , he enters into a new relation with his creatures , distinct from the first as meer lord. for he is equally lord of all to whom he gives a being , but he doth not require obedience upon equal terms , nor governs them by the same laws : dominion is properly shewed in the exercise of power ; but when god gives laws according to which he will reward and punish , he so far restrains the exercise of his dominion to a subserviency to the ends of government . if we should suppose , that god governs the world meerly by his dominion , we must take away all rewards and punishments ; for then the actions of men , would be the meer effects of irresistable power , and so not capable of rewards and punishments ; for there could be neither of these , where mens actions are not capable of the differences of good and evil , and that they cannot be , if they be the acts of gods dominion , and not of their own . but if god doth not exercise his full dominion over rational creatures , it is apparent that he doth govern them under another notion than as meer lord , and the reason of punishment is not to be taken from an absolute right which god doth not make use of , but from the ends and designs of government , which are his own honour , the authority of his laws , and the good of those whom he doth govern . and crellius is greatly mistaken , when he makes punishment to succeed in the place of the right of obedience ; for it is onely the desert of punishment , which follows upon the violation of that right ; and as we assert , that the right of obedience is derived from gods soveraignty , so we deny not , but the desert of punishment is from the violation of it ; but withall we say , that the obligation to punishment depends upon the laws , and gods right to inflict punishment ( laws being supposed ) is immediately from that government which he hath over mankinde : for otherwise , if the whole right of punishment did still depend upon gods dominion , and the first right of soveraignty , then all sins must have equal punishments , because they are all equal violations of the fundamental right of obedience ; then it were at liberty for god to punish a greater sin , with a less punishment ; and a lesser sin , with a greater : and lastly , this would make the punishment of sin , a meer arbitrary thing in god ; for there would be no reason of punishment , but what depended upon gods meer will ; whereas the reason of punishment in scripture is drawn from a repugnancy of sin to the divine purity and holyness , and not meerly from gods power or will to punish ; but if that were all the reason of it , there would be no repugnancy in the nature of the thing for the most vitious person to be rewarded , and the most pious to be made everlastingly miserable . but who ever yet durst say or think so ? from whence it appears that the relation between sin and punishment is no result of gods arbitrary will ; but it is founded in the nature of the things , so that as it is just for god to punish offenders , so it would be unjust to punish the most innocent person without any respect to sin . but if the right of punishment depends meerly on gods dominion , i cannot understand why god may not punish when , and whom , and in what manner he pleaseth ; without any impeachment of his justice , and therefore it is to be wonder'd at , that the same persons who assert the right of punishment to be meerly in gods dominion , should yet cry out of the unjustice of one person being punished for anothers faults ; for why may not god exercise his dominion in this case ? yes say they , he may his dominion , but he cannot punish , because punishment supposes guilt , and cannot be just without it ; how far that reaches , will be examined afterwards ; at present , we take notice of the contradiction to themselves which our adversaries are guilty of , that they may serve their own hypothesis , for when we dispute with them , against absolute remission without satisfaction , then they contend that the right of punishment is a meer act of dominion , and god may part with his right , if he please ; but when they dispute with us against the translation of punishment from one to another , then they no longer say that the right of punishment is an act of dominion , but that it is a necessary consequent of inherent guilt , and cannot be removed from one to another . and then they utterly deny that punishment is of the nature of debts ; for one mans money , they say , may become anothers , but one mans punishment cannot become anothers : thus they give and take , deny and grant , as it serves for their present purposes . the different end of debts and punishments , make it appear that there is a difference in the nature of them ; for the intention of the obligation to payment in case of debt , is the compensation of the damage which the creditor sustains ; but the intention of punishment , is not bare compensation , but it is designed for greater and further ends . for which we are to consider the different nature of punishments , as they are inflicted by way of reparation of some injury done to private persons , and as they do respect the publick good . i grant , that private persons in case of injuries , seek for compensation of the damage they sustain , and so far they bear the nature of debts ; but if we consider them as inflicted by those who have a care of the publick , though they are to see that no private person suffers injury by another , yet the reason of that is not meerly that he might enjoy his own , but because the doing injuries to others tends to the subversion of the ends of government . therefore , i can by no means admit that position of crellius , that a magistrate only punishes as he assumes the person of the particular men who have received injuries from others ; for he aims at other ends than meerly the compensation of those injured persons . their great end is according to the old roman formula , nè quid resp. detrimenti capiat : the reason of exacting penalties upon private men is still with a regard to the publick safety . supposing men in a. state of nature no punishment is due to the injured person , but restitution of damage , and compensation of the loss that accrues to him by the injury sustained ; and whatever goes beyond this , is the effect of government , which constitutes penalties for preservation of the society which is under laws . but herein crellius is our adversary , but with no advantage at all to his cause ; for he offers to prove against grotius , that something more is due by an injury beyond bare compensation for what the other is supposed to lose by the right of nature ; for saith he , in every injury there is not only the reall damage which the person sustains , but there is a contempt of the person implyed in it , for which as well as the former , he ought to have compensation . to which i answer , . that this doth not prove what he designs , viz. that punishment doth belong to the injured person in a state of nature , beyond bare restitution , but that it is necessary , that men should not continue in such a state , that so they may be vindicated from that contempt , and others compelled to restitution . both which , as they are punishments , are not in the power of the offended party as such , but shew that it is very reasonable there should be laws and governours , that private persons may be preserved in their just rights , and offenders punished for the vindication not only of their honour , but of the laws too . and laws being established , the injured person hath right to no more , than the compensation of his loss ; for that being forced upon the offending party , is a sufficient vindication of his honour . . if the contempt of a private person makes a compensation necessary , how much more will this hold in a publick magistrate ; whose contempt by disobedience is of far worse consequence than that of a private person . and by this argument crellius overthrows his main hypothesis , viz. that god may pardon sin without satisfaction ; for if it be not only necessary , that the loss be compensated but the dishonour too ; then so much greater as the dishonour is ; so much higher as the person is ; so much more beneficial to the world as his laws are ; so much more necessary is it that in order to pardon there must be a satisfaction made to him , for the affronts he hath received from men . and if the greatness of the injury be to be measured as crellius asserts , from the worth and value of the thing , from the dignity and honour of the person , from the displicency of the fact to him , which he makes the measure of punishment ; this makes it still far more reasonable , that god should have satisfaction for the sins of men , than that men should have for the injuries done them by one another ; especially considering what the same author doth assert afterwards , that it is sometime repugnant to justice , for one to part with his own right in case of injuries , and that either from the nature and circumstances of the things themselves , or a decree or determination to the contrary , for the first he instanceth in case of notorious defamation ; in which he saith , it is a dishonest and unlawfull thing for a man , not to make use of his own right for his vindication , and for the other , in case of great obstinacy and malice . by both which , it is most apparent , that crellius puts a mighty difference between the nature of debts ; and punishments , since in all cases he allows it lawfull for a person free , to remit his debts ; but in some cases he makes it utterly unlawfull for a person not to make use of his right for punishment . and withall if a private person may not part with his own right in such cases , how unreasonable is it not to assert the same of the great governour of the world ? and that there may be a necessity for him upon supposition of the contempt of himself and his laws , to vindicate himself and his honour to the world , by some remarkable testimony of his severity against sin . but crellius yet urgeth another end of punishment , which though the most unreasonable of all others , yet sufficiently proves from himself the difference of debts and punishments , which is , the delight which the injured person takes in seeing the offender punished . this he so much insists upon , as though he made it the most natural end of punishment , for , saith he , among the punishments which a prince or any other free person can inflict , revenge is in the first place , and the more there is of that in any thing , the more properly it is call'd a punishment ; and he tells what he means by this ultio ; viz. solatium ex alieno dolore , the contentment taken in anothers pain . but saith he , no man must object , that this is a thing evil in it self ; for although it be forbidden us under the new testament , yet in it self it is not unlawfull for one that hath suffered pain from another to seek for the ease of his own pain , by the miseries of him that injured him : and for this purpose , saith he , we have the passion of anger in us , which being a desire of returning injuries , is then satisfied when it apprehends it done . but how absurd and unreasonable this doctrine is , will be easily discovered , for this would make the primary intendment of punishment to be the evil of him that suffers it . whereas the right of punishment is derived from an injury received , and therefore that which gives that right , is some damage sustained , the reparation of which is the first thing designed by the offended party : though it take not up the whole nature of punishment . and on this account no man can justly propose any end to himself in anothers evil , but what comes under the notion of restitution . for the evil of another is only intended in punishment as it respects the good of him for whose sake that evil is undergone . when that good may be obtained without anothers evil , the desire of it is unjust and unreasonable : and therefore all that contentment that any one takes in the evil another undergoes , as it is evil to him , is a thing repugnant to humane nature , and which all persons condemn in others when they allow themselves in it . it will be hard for crellius to make any difference between this end of punishment which he assigns , and the greatest cruelty ; for what can that be worse than taking delight in making others miserable , and seeing them so when he hath made them . if it be replyed , that cruelty is without any cause , but here a just cause is supposed , i answer , a just cause is only supposed for the punishment , but there can be no just cause for any to delight in the miseries of others , and to comfort themselves by inflicting or beholding them . for the evil of another is never intended , but when it is the only means left for compensation ; and he must be guilty of great inhumanity , who desires anothers evil any further than that tends to his own good , i. e. the reparation of the damage sustained ; which if it may be had without anothers evil , then that comes not by the right of nature within the reason of punishment ; and consequently where it doth not serve for that end , the comfort that men take in it is no part of justice , but cruelty . for there can be no reason at all assigned for it ; for that lenimentum doloris which crellius insists on is meerly imaginary , and no other than the dog hath in gnawing the stone that is thrown at him ; and for all that i know , that propension in nature to the retribution of evil for evil any further than it tends to our security , and preservation for the future , is one of the most unreasonable passions in humane nature . and if we examine the nature of anger , either considered naturally or morally , the intention of it is , not the returning evil to another , for the evil received , but the security and preservation of our selves , which we should not have so great a care of , unless we had a quick sense of injuries , and our blood were apt to be heated at the apprehension of them . but when this passion vents it self , in doing others injury to alleviate its own grief , it is a violent and unreasonable perturbation ; but being governed by reason , it aims at no more , than the great end of our beings ; viz. self-preservation . but when that cannot be obtained without anothers evil , so far the intendment of it is lawful , but no further . and i cannot therefore think those philosophers , who have defined anger to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by whose authority crellius defends himself , when he makes anger to be a desire of revenge , did throughly consider what was just and reasonable in it , but barely what was natural , and would be the effect of that passion , if not governed by reason . for otherwise jul. scaligers definition is much more true and justifiable , that it is appetitus depulsionis ; viz. that whereby we are stirred up to drive away from us , any thing that is injurious to us . but because crellius alledgeth a saying of seneca , that would make vindicta of the nature of punishment , duabus de causis punire princeps solet , si aut se vindicet aut alium : we shall oppose to this the sense of the same author in this matter , which may sufficiently clear the other passage : for , saith he , inhumanum verbum est , & quidem pro justo receptum , ultio , & à contumelia non differt nisi ordine : qui dolorem regerit , tantum excusatius peccat . and no man speaks with greater vehemency against the delight in others punishments than he doth ; for he always asserts , the onely reason of punishment , to be some advantage which is to come by it , and not meerly to satisfie anger , or to allay their own griefs , by seeing anothers : for , saith he , the punishment is inflicted , non quia delectetur ullius poena ( procul est enim à sapiente tam inhumana feritas ) sed ut documentum omnium sint : so that it is onely the usefulness of punishment according to him , which makes it become any wise man ; and so far from a satisfaction of his grief by anothers punishment , that he makes that a piece of inhumanity , not incident to any who pretend to wisdom . nay , he denies , that a just punishment doth flow from anger ; for he that inflicts that , doth it , non ipsius poenae avidus sed quia oportet , not as desiring the punishment , but because there are great reasons for it : and elsewhere , exsequar quia oportet , non quia dolet : he is far enough then from approving , that imaginary compensation of one mans grief by anothers . and he shews at large , that the weakest natures , and the least guided by reason , are the most subject to this anger and revenge . and although other things be pretended , the general cause of it is , a great infirmity of humane nature ; and thence it is , that children , and old men , and sick persons , are the most subject to it ; and the better any are , the more they are freed from it : — quippe minuti semper & infirmi est animi , exiguique voluptas ultio — he makes cruelty to be nothing else , but the intemperace of the mind in exacting punishment ; and the difference between a prince and a tyrant to lye in this , that one delights in punishing , the other never does it but in case of necessity , when the publick good requires it . and this throughout his discourse , he makes the measure of punishment ; who then could imagine , that he should speak so contradictory to himself , as to allow punishment for meer revenge , or the easing ones own griefs , by the pains of another ? in the places cited by crellius , ( if taken in his sense ) he speaks what commonly is , not what ought to be in the world ; for he disputes against it in that very place , therefore that cannot be the meaning which he contends for . the common design of punishments by a prince , saith he , is either to vindicate himself or others . i so render his words , because vindicare , when it is joyned with the person injured , as here , vindicare se aut alium , doth properly relate to the end of punishment , which is asserting the right of the injured person ; but when it is joyned with the persons who have done the injury , or the crimes whereby they did it , then it properly signifies to punish . thus salust useth , vindicatum in eos ; and cicero , in milites nostros vehementer vindicatum , and for the fact very frequently in him , maleficia vindicare : but when it relates to the injured person , as here it doth , it cannot signifie meerly to punish ; for then se vindicare would be to punish ones self , but to assert his own right in case of injury , though it be with the punishment of another : for vindicatio , as cicero defines it , est per quam vis & injuris & omnino quod obfuturum est defendendo aut ulciscendo propulsatur . so that the security of our selves in case of force or injury , is ●hat which is called vindication ; which ●ometimes may be done by defence , and ●thertimes by punishment . and that se●eca doth mean no more here , is apparent ●y what follows ; for in case of private in●uries , he saith , poenamsi tutò poterit donet , ●he would have the prince forgive the punishment , if it may be done with safety ; so that he would not have any one punished , to satisfie anothers desire of revenge , but to preserve his own safety : and afterwards he saith , it is much beneath a princes condition , to need that satisfaction which arises from anothers sufferings : but for the punishments of others , he saith , the law hath established three ends , the amendment of the persons , or making others better by their punishments , or the publick security , by taking away such evil members out of the body : so that in publick punishments , he never so much as supposes , that contentment which revenge fancies in others punishments , but makes them wholly designed for the publick advantage . for the laws in punishment do not look backward , but forward ; for as plato saith , no wise man ever punished , meerly because men had offended , but least they should : for past things cannot be recall'd , but futu● are , therefore forbidden , that they may be prevented . so to the same purpose is the saying of lactantius , produced by grotius , surgimus ad vindictam non quia laesi sumus sed ut disciplina servetur , mores corrigantur , licentia comprimatur : haec est ira justa . to which crellius answers , that this signifies nothing , unless it can be proved , that no ma● may justly punish another , meerly because he is wronged . if he means of the right to punish , we deny not that to be , because the person is wronged ; but if he understands it of the design and end of punishment , then we deny , that it is an allowable end of punishments , any further than it can come under the notion of restitution , of which we have spoken already . when a master ( which is the instance he produceth ) punisheth his servants , because they have disobey'd him : the reason of that punishment , is not the bare disobedience , but the injury which comes to him by it ; the reparation of which he seeks by punishment , either as to his authority , security or profit . but he addes , that where punishment is designed , for preservation of discipline , and amendment of manners , and keeping persons in order , which are the ends mentioned by lactantius ) it is where the interest of the person lies , in the preservation of these , and is therefore offended at the neglect of them . to which i answer , that the interest of such a one , is not barely the interest of an offended party , as such , but the interest of a governor ; and no body denies , but such a one may be an offended party : but the question is , whether the design of punishment be meerly to satisfie him as the offended party , or to answer the ends of government ? for crellius hath already told us , what it is to satisfie one as an offended party , that is , to ease himself by the punishment of others ; but what ever is designed for the great ends of government , is not to be considered under that notion , although the governor may be justly offended at the neglect of them . and there is this considerable difference between the punishment made to an offended party , as such , and that which is for the ends of government , that the former is a satisfaction to anger , and the latter to laws and the publick interest . for crellius disputes much for the right of anger in exacting punishments ; the satisfaction of which , in case of real injury , he never makes unlawful , but in case that it be prohibited us by one , whose power is above our own : nay he makes it otherwise the primary end of punishment . so that anger is the main thing upon these terms to be respected in punishment : but where it is designed for the ends before mention'd , there is no necessity of any such passion a● anger to be satisfied , the ends of punishment may be attained wholly without it : and publick punishment , according to seneca , non ira sed ratio est , is no effect of anger , but reason ; for , saith he , nihil minus quam irasci punientem decet : nothing less becomes one that punisheth , than anger doth ; for all punishments being considered as medicines , no man ought to give physick in anger , or to let himself blood in a fury : a magistrate , saith he , when he goes to punish , ought to appear only vultu legis quae non irascitur , sed constituit , with the countenance of the law , which appoints punishments without passion : the reason of which is , because the law aims not primarily at the evil of the man that suffers punishment , but at the good which comes to the publick by such sufferings . for the first design of the law was to prevent any evil being done , and punishment coming in by way of sanction to the force of the law , must have the same primary end which the law it self had ; which is not to satisfie barely the offended party for the breach , any further than that satisfaction tends to the security of the law , and preventing the violation of it for the future . the substance of what i have said upon this subject , may be thus briefly comprized , that antecedently to laws , the offended party hath right to no more than bare reparation of the damage sustained by the injury ; that the proper notion of punishment is consequent to laws , and the inflicting of it is an act of government , which is not designed for meer satisfaction of the anger of the injured person , but for the publick good , which lies in preserving the authority of the laws , the preventing all injuries by the security of mens just rights , and the vindication of the dignity and honor of him , who is to take care of the publick good . for these crellius himself acknowledgeth , to be the just ends of punishments , onely he would have the satisfaction a man takes in anothers evil , to come in the first place ; wherein how much he is mistaken , i hope we have already manifested . because the proper nature of punishment depending upon laws , the laws do not primarily design the benefit of private persons ( supposing that were so ) but the advantage of that community which they are made for . and in those cases wherein the magistrate doth right to particular persons in the punishment of those who have injured them , he doth it not as taking their person upon him , for he aims at other things than they doe ; they look at a bare compensation for the injury received ; but the magistrate at the ill consequence the impunity of injuries may be of to the publick : they , it may be at the satisfaction of their displeasure ; but he at the satisfaction of the laws ; they at their own private damage ; he at the violation of the publick peace . and from hence among those nations who valued all crimes at a certain rate , in matters of injury between man and man , the injured person was not only to receive compensation for his wrong ; but a considerable fine was to be paid to the exchequer for the violation of the publick peace . this tacitus observes among the old germans , grotius of the old gothick laws , and from them ( as most of our modern laws and customs are derived ) lindenbrogius of the salick , alemannick , lombardick , spelman of the saxon , who tells us in case of murder there were three payments , one to the kindred , which was call'd megbote ; the second to the lord , call'd manbote , the third to the king , call'd freda from the german frid , which signifies peace , it being the consideration paid to the king for the breach of the publick peace . and this , saith he , in all actions , was ●neiciently paid to the king , because the peace was supposed to be broken , not by meer force , but by any injuries ; and if the action was unjust , the plaintiffe paid it ; if just , the defendant . and the measure of it , saith bignonius , was the tenth part of the value of the thing as estimated by law ; which by the customs of the ancient romans was deposited at the commencing of a suit by both , and only taken up again by him who overcame ; and was by them call'd sacramentum , as varro tells us . and the same custome was observed among the greeks too , as appears by julius pollux , who tells us it was call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 among them , and in publick actions was the fifth part , in private the tenth . but that which was paid to the publick in case of murder , was among the greeks call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the same with poena , for hesychius tells us that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and to the same purpose the scholiast on homer on those words iliad . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by which the original of the name poena , comes from a payment made to the publick , according to that known rule , interest reip . delicta puniri , that persons may see how much the publick safety is concerned , that crimes be punished . from which and many other things which might be insisted on , crellius his hypothesis will appear to be false , viz. that when the magistrate doth judge in the affairs of particular men , he doth it only as assuming the person of those men ; whereas it appears from the reason of the thing , and the custom of nations , that the interest of the magistrate is consider'd as distinct from that of private persons , when he doth most appear in vindication of injuries . but all this is managed with a respect to the grand hypothesis , viz. that the right of punishing doth belong only to the offended party as such , that the punishment is of the nature of debts , and the satisfaction by compensation to the anger of him who is offended . the falsity of which this discourse was designed to discover . having thus considered the nature of punishments among men , we come more closely to our matter , by examining how far this will hold in the punishments which god inflicts on the account of sin . for which two things must be inquired into , . in what sense we attribute anger to god. . what are the great ends of those punishments god inflicts on men on the account of sin . for the first , though our adversaries are very unwilling to allow the term of punitive justice , yet they contend for a punitive anger in god , and that in the worst sense as it is appetitus vindictae : for after crellius hath contended that this is the proper notion of anger in general ; neither ought any one to say , he adds , that anger as other passions is attributed improperly to god ; for setting aside the imperfections , which those passions are subject to in us , all the rest is to be attributed to him ; taking away then that perturbation , and pain , and grief we find in our selves in anger , to which the abhorrency of sin answers in god , all the rest doth agree to him . i would he had a little more plainly told us what he means by all the rest , but we are to ghesse at his meaning by what went before , where he allows of cicero , and aristotles definition of anger , whereof the one is , that it is libido , or ( as crellius would rather have it , ) cupiditas puniendi , the other , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. and himself calls it poenae appetitio , and in another place , that it may be as properly defined cupiditas vindictae as cupiditas poenae , or affectus vindicandi , as well as puniendi : in all which places , he doth assert such an anger in god as supposes such a motion , or desire , or inclination to punish sin when it is committed , as there is in us when an injury is done us , only the perturbation and pain excluded . but he hath not thought fit to explain how such new motions or inclinations in the divine nature every time sin is committed , are consistent with the immutability and perfection of it ; nor what such a kind of desire to punish in god imports , whether a meer inclination without the effect , or an inclination with the effect following : if without the effect , than either because the sin was not great enough , or gods honour was not concerned to do it , and in this case the same reasons which make the effect not to follow , make the desire of it inconsistent with the divine wisdom and perfection : or else because the effect is hindred by the repentance of the person , or some other way which may make it not necessary to do it ; than upon the same reason the effect is suspended , the inclination to do it should be so too ; for that must be supposed to be governed by an eternal reason and counsel as well as his actions ; unless some natural passions in god be supposed antecedent to his own wisdom and counsel , which is derogatory to the infinite perfection of god , since those are judged imperfections in our selves : if it be taken only with the effect following it , than god can never be said to be angry but when he doth punish , whereas his wrath is said to be kindled in scripture , where the effect hath not followed ; which if it implyes any more than the high provocation of god to punish ( as i suppose it doth not ) then this inclination to punish is to be conceived distinct from the effect following it . but that conception of anger in god seems most agreeable to the divine nature , as well as to the scriptures , which makes it either the punishment it self , as crellius elsewhere acknowledges it is often taken so ; or gods declaration of his will to punish , which is call'd the revelation of the wrath of god against all unrighteousness of men , god thereby discovering the just displeasure he hath against sin ; or the great provocation of god to punish , by the sins of men ; as when his wrath is said , to be kindled , &c. by this sense we may easily reconcile all that the scripture saith concerning the wrath of god ; we make it agreeable to infinite perfection , we make no such alterations in god , as the appeasing of his anger must imply , if that imply any kinde of commotion in him . and thus the grand difficulty of crellius appears to be none at all , against all those passages of scripture which speak of appeasing god , of attonement , and reconciliation , viz. that if they prove satisfaction , they must prove that god being actually angry with mankind before the sufferings of his son , he must be presently appeased upon his undergoing them . for no more need to be said , than that god being justly provoked to punish the sins of mankinde , was pleased to accept of the sufferings of his son , as a sufficient sacrifice of attonement for the sins of the world , on consideration of which he was pleased to offer those terms of pardon , which upon mens performance of the conditions required on their part , shall be sufficient to discharge them from that obligation to punishment which they were under by their sins . and what absurdity , or incongruity there is in this to any principle of reason , i cannot imagine . but our adversaries first make opinions for us , and then shew they are unreasonable . they first suppose that anger in god is to be consider'd as a passion , and that passion a desire of revenge for satisfaction of it ; and then tell us , that if we do not prove , that this desire of revenge can be satisfied by the sufferings of christ , then we can never prove the doctrine of satisfaction to be true ; whereas we do not mean by gods anger any such passion , but the just declaration of gods will to punish upon our provocation of him by our sins ; we do not make the design of satisfaction to be , that god may please himself in the revenging the sins of the guilty upon the most innocent person ; because we make the design of punishment , not to be the satisfaction of anger as a desire of revenge , but to be the vindication of the honour and rights of the injured person , by such a way as himself shall judge most satisfactory to the ends of his government . . which is the next thing we are to clear : for which end we shall make use of the concession of crellius , that god hath prefixed some ends to himself in the government of mankind ; which being supposed , it is necessary , that impenitent sinners should be punished . what these ends of god are , he before tells us , when he enquires into the ends of divine punishments , which he makes to be , security for the future , by mens avoding sins , and a kind of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or pleasure which god takes in the destruction of his implacable enemies , and the asserting and vindicating his own right by punishing , and shewing men thereby , with what care and fear they ought to serve him ; and so attains the ends of punishment proposed by lactantius , and manifestation of the divine honor and majestie , which hath been violated by the sins of men . all these we accept of , with this caution , that the delight which god takes in the punishing his implacable enemies , be not understood of any pleasure in their misery , as such , by way of meer revenge ; but as it tends to the vindication of his right , and honor , and majestie ; which is an end suitable to the divine nature : but the other cannot in it self , have the notion of an end ; for an end doth suppose something desirable for it self ; which surely the miseries of others cannot have to us , much less to the divine nature . and that place which crellius insists on to prove the contrary , deut. . . the lord will rejoyce over you , to destroy you ; imports no more , than the satisfaction god takes in the execution of his justice , when it makes most for his honor , as certainly it doth in the punishment of his greatest enemies . and this is to be understood in a sense agreeable to those other places , where god is said not to delight in the death of sinners ; which doth not ( as crellius would have it ) meerly express gods benignity and mercy , but such an agreeableness of the exercise of those attributes to gods nature , that he neither doth nor can delight in the miseries of his creatures in themselves , but as they are subservient to the ends of his government ; and yet such is his kindness in that rspect too , that he useth all means agreeable thereto , to make them avoid being miserable , to advanee his own glory . and i cannot but wonder that grotius , who had asserted the contrary in his book of satisfaction , should in his books de jure belli ac pacis , assert , that when god punisheth wicked men , he doth it for no other end , but that he might punish them : for which he makes use of no other arguments , than those which crellius had objected against him ; viz. the delight god takes in punishing , and the judgements of the life to come , when no amendment can be expected ; the former hath been already answered , the latter is objected by crellius against him , when he makes the ends of punishment , meerly to respect the community , which cannot be asserted of the punishments of another life , which must chiefly respect the vindication of gods glory , in the punishment of unreclaimable sinners . and this we do not deny to be a just punishment , since our adversaries themselves , as well as we , make it necessary . but we are not so to understand , that the end of divine punishments doth so respect the community , as though god himself were to be excluded out of it ; for we are so to understand it , as made up of god as the governor , and mankind as the persons governed ; whatever then tends to the vindication of the rights of gods honor and soveraignty , tends to the good of the whole , because the manifestation of that end is so great an end of the whole . but withall , though we assert in the life to come , the ends of punishment not to be the reclaiming of sinners , who had never undergone them , unless they had been unreclaimable ; yet a vast difference must be made between the ends of punishments in that , and in this present state . for the other is the reserve , when nothing else will do , and therefore was not primarily intended ; but the proper ends of punishment , as a part of government , are to be taken from the design of them in this life . and here we assert , that gods end in punishing , is the advancing his honor , not by the meer miseries of his creatures , but that men by beholding his severity against sin , should break off the practice of it , that they may escape the punishments of the furture state . so that the ends of punishment here , are quite of another kinde , from those of another life ; for those are inflicted , because persons have been unreclaimable by either the mercies or punishments of this life ; but these are intended , that men should so far take notice of this severity of god , as to avoid the sins which will expose them to the wrath to come . and from hence it follows , that whatsoever sufferings , do answer all these ends of divine punishments , and are inflicted on the account of sin , have the proper notion of punishments in them , and god may accept of the undergoing them as a full satisfaction to his law , if they be such as tend to break men off from sin , and assert gods right , and vindicate his honor to the world ; which are the ends assigned by crellius , and will be of great consequence to us in the following discourse . chap. ii. the particular state of the controversie , concerning the sufferings of christ. the concessions of our adversaries . the debate reduced to two heads : the first concerning christs sufferings , being a punishment for sin , entred upon . in what sense crellius acknowledgeth the sins of men , to have been the impulsive cause of the death of christ. the sufferings of christ proved to be a punishment , from scripture . the importance of the phrase of bearing sins . of the scape-goats bearing the sins of the people into the wilderness . grotius his sense of pet. . . vindicated against crellius and himself . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 never used for the taking away a thing by the destruction of it . crellius his sense examin'd . isa. . . vindicated . the argument from mat. . . answered . grotius constant to himself in his notes on that place . isa. . , , . cleared . whether christs death be a proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and whether that doth imply , that it was a punishment of sin ? how far the punishments of children for their fathers faults , are exemplary among men . the distinction of calamities and punishments , holds not here . that gods hatred of sin could not be seen in the sufferings of christ , unless they were a punishment of sin , proved against crellius . grotius his arguments from christ being made sin and a curse for us , defended . the liberty our adversaries take in changing the sense of words . the particles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being joyned to sins and relating to sufferings do imply those sufferings to be a punishment for sin . according to their way of interpreting scripture , it had been impossible for our doctrine to be clearly expressed therein . these things being thus far cleared concerning the nature and ends of punishments , and how far they are of the nature of debts , and consequently what kind of satisfaction is due for them , the resolution of the grand question concerning the sufferings of christ will appear much more easie ; but that we may proceed with all possible cleerness in a debate of this consequence , we must yet a little more narrowly examine the difference between our adversaries and us in this matter ; for their concessions are in terms sometimes so fair , as though the difference were meerly about words without any considerable difference in the thing it self . if we charge them with denying satisfaction , crellius answers in the name of them , that we do it unjustly ; for they do acknowledge a satisfaction worthy of god , and agreeable to the scriptures . if we charge them with denying that our salvation is obtained by the death of christ , they assert the contrary , as appears by the same authour . nay , ruarus attributes merit to the death of christ too . they acknowledge , that christ dyed for us , nay , that there was a commutation between christ and us , both of one person for another , and of a price for a person ; and that the death of christ may be said to move god to redeem us ; they acknowledge reconciliation , and expiation of sins to be by the death of christ. nay , they assert , that christs death was by reason of our sins , and that god designed by that to shew his severity against sin . and what could we desire more , if they meant the same thing by these words , which we do ? they assert a satisfaction , but it is such a one as is meerly fulfilling the desire of another ; in which sense all that obey god may be said to satisfie him . they attribute our salvation to the death of christ , but only as a condition intervening , upon the performance of which the covenant was confirmed , and himself taken into glory , that he might free men from the punishment of their sins . they attribute merit to christs death but in the same sense that we may merit too , when we do what is pleasing to god. they acknowledge , that christ dyed for us , but not in our stead , but for our advantage ; that there was a commutation ; but not such a one , as that the son of god did lay down his blood as a proper price in order to our redemption as the purchase of it ; when they speak of a moving cause , they tell us , they mean no more than the performance of any condition may be said to move , or as our prayers and repentance do . the reconciliation they speak of , doth not at all respect god but us ; they assert an expiation of sins consequent upon the death of christ , but not depending upon it any otherwise than as a condition necessary for his admission to the office of a high priest in heaven there to expiate our sins by his power , and not by his blood ; but they utterly deny , that the death of christ is to be considered as a proper expiatory sacrifice for sin ; or that it hath any further influence upon it , than as it is considered as a means of the confirmation of the truth of his doctrine , and particularly the promise of remission of sins , on which , and not on the death of christ they say our remission depends ; but so far as the death of christ may be an argument to us to believe his doctrine , and that faith may incline us to obedience , and that obedience being the condition in order to pardon , at so many removes they make the death of christ to have influence on the remission of our sins . they assert that god took occasion by the sins of men to exercise an act of dominion upon christ in his sufferings , and that the sufferings of christ were intended for the taking away the sins of men ; but they utterly deny , that the sufferings of christ were to be considered as a punishment for sin , or that christ did suffer in our place and stead ; nay , they contend with great vehemency , that it is wholly inconsistent with the justice of god to make one mans sins the meritorious cause of anothers punishment ; especially one wholly innocent , and so that the guilty shall be free●● on the account of his sufferings . thus i have endeavoured to give the true state of the controversie with all clearness and brevity . and the substance of it will be reduced to these two debates . . whether the sufferings of christ in general are to be considered as a punishment of sin , or as a meer act of dominion ? . whether the death of christ in particular were a proper expiatory sacrifice for sin , or only an antecedent condition to his exercise of the office of priesthood in heaven ? . whether the sufferings of christ in general are to be consider'd as a punishment of sin , or as a meer act of dominion ? for that it must be one or the other of these two , cannot be denyed by our adversaries ; for the inflicting those sufferings upon christ , must either proceed from an antecedent meritorious cause , or not . if they doe , they are then punishments ; if not , they are meer exercises of power and dominion ; whatever ends they are intended for , and whatever recom●…ce be made for them . so crellius asserts , that god as absolute lord of all , had a right of absolute dominion upon the life and body of christ , and therefore might justly deliver him up to death , and give his body to the crosse ; and although christ by the ordinary force of the law of moses , had a right to escape so painfull and accursed death , yet god by the right of dominion had the power of disposal of him , because he intended to compensate his torments with a reward infinitely greater than they were : but because he saith , for great ends the consent of christ was necessary , therefore god did not use his utmost dominion in delivering him up by force as he might have done , but he dealt with him by way of command , and rewards proposed for obedience , and in this sense he did act as a righteous governour , and indulgent father , who encouraged his son to undergoe hard , but great things . in which we see , that he makes the sufferings of christ an act of meer dominion in god , without any antecedent cause as the reason of them ; only he qualifies this act of dominion with the proposal of a reward for it . but we must yet fu●ther enquire into their meaning , for though here crellius attributes the sufferings of christ meerly to gods dominion , without any respect to sin , yet elsewhere he will allow a respect that was had to 〈◊〉 antecedently to the sufferings of christ , and that the sins of men were the impulsive cause of them . and although socinus in one place utterly denyes any lawfull antecedent cause of the death of christ , besides the will of god and christ , yet crellius in his vindication saith , by lawfull cause , he meant meritorious , or such upon supposition of which he ought to dye ; for elsewhere he makes christ to dye for the cause , or by the occasion of our sins ; which is the same that crellius means by an impulsive , or procatartick cause . which he thus explains , we are now to suppose a decree of god not only to give salvation to mankinde , but to give us a firm hope of it in this present state , now our sins by deserving eternal punishment , do hinder the effect of that decree upon us , and therefore they were an impulsive cause of the death of christ , by which it was effected , that this decree should obtain notwithstanding our sins . but we are not to understand as though this were done by any expiation of the guilt of sin by the death of christ ; but this effect is hindred by three things , by taking away their sins , by assuring men that their former sins , and present infirmities upon their sincere obedience shall not be imputed to them , and that the effect of that decree shall obtain , all which , saith he , is effected morte christi interveniente , the death of christ interventing , but not as the procuring cause . so that after all these words he means no more by making our sins an impulsive cause of the death of christ , but that the death of christ was an argument to confirm to us the truth of his doctrine , which doctrine of his doth give us assurance of these things : and that our sins when they are said to be the impulsive cause , are not to be considered with a respect to their guilt , but to that distrust of god which our sins do raise in us ; which distrust is in truth according to this sense of crellius the impulsive cause , and not the sins which were the cause or occasion of it . for that was it which the doctrine was designed to remove , and our sins only as the causes of that . but if it be said , that he speaks not only of the distrust , but of the punishment of sin as an impediment which must be removed too , and therefore may be call'd an impulsive cause , we are to consider that the removal of this is not attributed to the death of christ , but to the leaving of our sins by the belief of his doctrine ; therefore the punishment of our sins cannot unless in a very remote sense be said to be an impulsive cause of that , which for all that we can observe by crellius , might as well have been done without it ; if any other way could be thought sufficient to confirm his doctrine , and christ , without dying , might have had power to save all them that obey him . but we understand not an impulsive cause in so remote a sense , as though our sins were a meer occasion of christs dying , because the death of christ was one argument among many others to believe his doctrine , the belief of which would make men leave their sins ; but we contend for a neerer and more proper sense , viz. that the death of christ was primarily intended for the expiation of our sins , with a respect to god and not to us , and therefore our sins as an impulsive cause are to be considered as they are so displeasing to god ; that it was necessary for the vindication of gods honour , and the deterring the world from sin , that no less a sacrifice of attonement should be offered , than the blood of the son of god. so that we understand an impulsive cause here in the same sense , that the sins of the people were , under the law , the cause of the offering up those sacrifices , which were appointed for the expiation of them . and as in those sacrifices there were two things to be considered , viz. the mactation , and the oblation of them , the former as a punishment by a substitution of them in place of the persons who had offended ; the latter as the proper sacrifice of attonement , although the mactation it self , considered with the design of it , was a sacrificial act too : so we consider the sufferings of christ with a twofold respect , either as to our sins , as the impulsive cause of them , so they are to be considered as a punishment , or as to god , with a design to expiate the guilt of them , so they are a sacrifice of attonement . the first consideration is , that we are now upon , and upon which the present debate depends , for if the sufferings of christ be to be taken under the notion of punishment , then our adversaries grant , that our sins must be an impulsive cause of them in another sense than they understand it . for the clearing of this , i shall prove these two things . . that no other sense ought to be admitted of the places of scripture which speak of the sufferings of christ with a respect to sin , but this . . that this account of the sufferings of christ , is no wayes repugnant to the justice of god. that no other sense ought to be admitted of the places of scripture , which speak of the sufferings of christ with a respect to our sins , but that they are to be considered as a punishment for them . such are those which speak of christs bearing our sins , of our iniquities being laid upon him , of his making himself an offering for sin , and being made sin and a curse for us , and of his dying for our sins . all which i shall so far consider , as to vindicate them from all the exceptions which socinus and crellius have offered against them . . those which speak of christs bearing our sins . as to which we shall consider , first , . the importance of the phrase in general of bearing sin , and then the circumstances of the particular places in dispute . for the importance of the phrase , socinus acknowledges , that it generally signifies bearing the punishment of sin in scripture : but that sometimes it signifies taking away . the same is confessed by crellius , but he saith , it doth not alwayes signifie bearing proper punishment , but it is enough ( he sayes ) that one bears something burdensome on the occasion of others sins : and so christ by undergoing his sufferings by occasion of sins , may be said to bear our sins . and for this sense he quotes numb . . . and your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years , and bear your whoredoms , untill your carcasses be wasted in the wilderness . whereby , saith he , it is not meant that god would punish the children of the israelites , but that by the occasion of their parents sins , they should undergoe that trouble , in wandering in the wilderness , and being deprived of the possession of the promised land. but could crellius think that any thing else could have been imagined , ( setting aside a total destruction ) a greater instance of gods severity , than that was to the children of israel all their circumstances being considered ? is it not said , that god did swear in his wrath , they should not enter into his rest ? surely then the debarring them so long of that rest , was an instance of gods wrath , and so according to his own principles must have something of vindicta in it , and therefore be a proper punishment . the truth is , our adversaries allow themselves in speaking things most repugnant to humane nature in this matter of punishments , that they may justifie their own hypothesis . for a whole nation to be for forty years debarred from the greatest blessings were ever promised them ; and instead of enjoying them , to endure the miseries and hardships of forty years travells in a barren wilderness , must not be thought a punishment , and only because occasioned by their parents sins . but whatever is inflicted on the account of sin , and with a design to shew gods severity against it , and thereby to deterr others from the practice of it , hath the proper notion of punishment in it ; and all these things did concurr in this instance , besides the general sense of mankind in the matter of their punishment , which was such , that supposing them preserved in their liberty , could not have been imagined greater . and therefore vatablus , whom socinus and crellius highly commend , thus renders those words , dabunt poenas pro fornicationibus vestris quibus defecistis a deo vestro : they shall suffer the punishment of your fornications . and that bearing the sins of parents doth imply properly bearing the punishment of them , methinks they should not so earnestly deny , who contend that to be the meaning of the words in ezekiel , the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father ; viz. that he shall not bear the punishment of his fathers sins . where in bearing iniquity with a respect to their parents sins , by their own confession must be taken for the proper punishment ; for otherwise they do not deny , but children notwithstanding that sentence , may undergo much affliction on the occasion of their parents sins . but socinus further objects , that bearing sins doth not imply the punishment of them , because the scape-goat under the law , is said to bear upon him the iniquities of the people , and yet could not be said to be punished for them . to which grotius answers , that socinus takes it for granted without reason , that the scape-goat could not be said to be punished for the sins of the people ; for punishment in general , may fall upon beasts for the sins of men , gen. . . exod. . . lev. . . gen. . . and socinus hath no cause to say , that the scape-goat was not slain ; for the jewish interpreters do all agree that he was , and however the sending him into the wilderness was intended as a punishment , and most probably by an unnatural death . to which crellius replies , that i● the general , he denyes not but punishment may fall upon beasts as well as men ; but ( that he might shew himself true to his principle , that one cannot be punished for anothe● faults , ) he falls into a very pleasant discourse , that the beasts are not said to be punished for mens sins , but for their own , and therefore when it is said , before the flood , that all flesh had corrupted his way ; he will by n● means have it understood only of men , b●… that the sins of the beasts at that time , were greater than ordinary , as well as mens . but he hath not told us what they were , whether by eating some forbidden herbs , or entring into conspiracies against mankind their lawful soveraigns , or unlawful mixtures ; and therefore we have yet reason to believe that when god saith , the ground was cursed for mans sake , that the beasts were punished for mans sin . and if all flesh , must comprehend beasts in this place , why shall not all flesh seeing the glory of the lord , take in the beasts there too : for vatablus parallels this place with the ●ther . but if , saith then●e ●e saith , that those though they were destroy●d by the flood , yet did not suffer punishment , ●ut only a calamity by occasion of the sins of ●en . i wonder he did not rather say , that the innocent beasts were taken into the ark , for the propagation of a better kind afterwards . but by this solemn distiuction of calamities and punishments , there is nothing so miserable , that either men or beasts can undergo , but when it serves their turn , it shall be only a calamity and no punishment , though it be said to be on purpose to shew gods severity against the sins of the world . and this excellent notion of the beasts being punished for their own sins , is improved by him to the vindication of the scape-goat from being punished ; because then , saith he , the most wicked and corrupt goat should have been made choice off . as though all the design of that great day of expiation had been only to call the children of israel together with great solemnity , to let them see , how a poor goat must be punished for breaking the laws which we do not know were ever made for them . i had thought our adversaries had maintained that the sacrifices ( on the day of expiation 〈◊〉 least ) had represented and typified th●… sacrifice which was to be offered up b●… christ ; and so socinus and crellius else where contend : he need not therefor● have troubled himself concerning the si●… of the goat , when it is expresly said , th●… the sins of the people were put on the he●… of the goat ; whatever then the punishment were , it was on the account of the sins of the people , and not his own . bu● crellius urgeth against grotius , that if the scape-goat had been punished for the expiation of the sins of the people , that should have bee● particularly expressed in scripture , where●… nothing is said there at all of it , and that the throwing down the scape-goat from the top 〈◊〉 the rock , was no part of the primitive institution , but one of the superstitions taken up by the jewes in after-times , because of the ominousness of the return of it ; and although we should suppose ( which is not probable ) that it should dye by famine in the wilderness , yet this was not the death for expiation , which was to be by the shedding of blood . to this therefore i answer . . i do not insist on the customs of the later jewes to prove from thence any punishment designed by the primitive institution . for i shall easily yield , that many superstitions obtained among them afterwards about the scape-goat ; as the stories of the red list turning white upon the head of it , the booths and he causey made on purpose , and several other things mentioned in the rabbinical writers do manifest . but yet it seems very probable from the text it self , that the scape-goat was not carried into the wilderness at large , but to a steep mountain there . for although we have commonly rendered azazel by the scape-goat , yet according to the best of the jewish writers , as p. fagius tells us , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not come from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a goat , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 abiit ; but is the name of a mountain very steep and rocky near mount sinai , and therefore probably called by the later jews , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the name of a rock : and to this purpose , it is observable that where we render it , and let him go for a scape-goat into the wilderness in the hebrew it is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to send him to azazel in the wilderness : as the joyning the preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth import , and the arabick version whereever azazel is mentioned , renders it by mount azaz : and the chaldee and syriack to azazel ; so that from hence , a carrying the scape-goat to a certain place may be inferred ; but i see no foundation in the text for the throwing it down from the rock when it was there ; and therefore i cannot think , but that 〈…〉 the punishment intended did lye in tha● it would have been expresly mention●… in the solemnities of that day , which h●… so great an influence on the expiation 〈◊〉 the sins of the people . . i answer , th●… the scape-goat was to denote rather t●… effect of the expiation , than the mann●… of obtaining it . for the proper expiatio●… was by the shedding of blood , as the apos●… tells us ; and thence the live goat was no●… to have the sins of the people to bear aw●… into the desart , till the high priest had made 〈◊〉 end of reconciling the holy place , and the t●… bernacle of the congregation , and the altar ; an● by the sprinkling of the blood of the other god which was the sin-offering for the people ; which being done , he was to bring the live goat , and to lay his hands upon the head of it , and confess over it all the iniquities of the children of israel , and all their transgressions in 〈◊〉 their sins , putting them upon the head of the goat , and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness ; and so the go● shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited , and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness . so that the former goat noted the way of expiation by the shedding of blood , and the latter the effect of it , viz. that the sins of the people were declared to be expiated by the sending the goat charged with their sins into a desart place ; and that their sins would not appear in the presence of god against them , any more than they expected , that the goat which was sent into the wilderness should return among them . which was the reason that afterwards they took so much care that it should not , by causing it to be thrown off from a steep rock ; which was no sooner done , but notice was given of it very suddenly by the sounding of horns all over the land. but the force of socinus his argument from the scape-goats bearing the sins of the people , that therefore that phrase doth not alwayes imply the bearing of punishment , is taken off by crellius himself , who tells us that the scape-goat is not said to bear the sins of the people in the wilderness ; but only that it carried the sins of the people into the wilderness , which is a phrase of another importance from that we are now discoursing off . as will now further appear from the places where it is spoken of concerning our saviour , which we now come particularly to examine . the first place insisted on by grotius with a respect to christ , is pet. . . who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree , which , saith crellius , is so far from proving that christ did bear the punishment of our sins , that it doth not imply any sufferings that he underwent on the occasion of them . he grants that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signifie to carry up , but withall ( he saith ) it signifies to take away ; because that which is taken up , is taken away from the place where it was . besides , he observes , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth answer to the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he hath made to ascend , which is frequently rendred by it in the lxx . and sometimes by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; but that hebrew word doth often signifie to take away , where it is rendred in the greek by one of those two words , sam. . . josh. . . psal. . . ezra . . to which i answer , . that the signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this place , must not be taken from every sense the word is ever used for , but in that which the words out of which these are taken do imply ; and in isa. . . it doth not answer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a word which by the confession of all is never properly used for taking away , but for bearing of a burden , and is used with a respect to the punishment of sin , lament . . . our fathers have sinned , and are not , and we have born their iniquities , where the same word is used ; so that the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here , must depend upon that in isaiah , of which more afterward . . granting that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth answer sometimes to the hebr. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yet it makes nothing to crellius his purpose , unless he can prove that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth ever signifie the taking away a thing by the destruction of it ; for where it answers to that word , it is either for the offering up of a sacrifice , in which sense 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is very frequently used , as is confessed by crellius ; and in that sense it is no prejudice at all to our cause ; for then it must be granted , that christ upon the cross is to be considered as a sacrifice for the sins of men ; and so our sins were laid upon him as they were supposed to be on the sacrifices under the law , in order to the expiation of them , by the shedding their blood ; and if our adversaries would acknowledge this , the difference would not be so great between us ; or else it is used for the removal of a thing from one place to another , the thing it self still remaining in being , as sam. . . and he made sauls bones to ascend , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he took them away , saith crellius ; true , but it is such a taking away , as is a bare removal ; the thing still remaining ; the same is to be said of joseph's bones , josh. . . which are all the places where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used ; and although 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may be sometimes taken in another sense , as psal. . . yet nothing can be more unreasonable than such a way of arguing as this is ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith crellius signifies taking away ; we demand his proof of it ; is it that the word signifies so much of it self ? no ; that he grants it doth not . is it that it is frequently used in the greek version to render a word that properly doth signifie so ? no ; nor that neither . but how is it then ? crellius tells us , that it sometimes answers to a word that signifies to make to ascend : well , but doth that word signifie taking away ? no ; not constantly , for it is frequently used for a sacrifice : but doth it at any time signifie so ? yes ; it signifies the removal of a thing from one place to another . is that the sense then he contends for here ? no , but how then ? why 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used to render the same word that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 though it signifies too a bare removal , as ezra . . yet psal. . . it is used for cutting off , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the hebr. is , make me not to ascend in the midst of my dayes . but doth it here signifie utter destruction ? i suppose not ; but grant it , what is this to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when the lxx . useth not that word here , which for all that we know was purposely alter'd ; so that at last 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is far enough from any such signification as crellius would fix upon it , unless he will assert , that christs taking away our sins , was only a removal of them from earth to heaven . but here grotius comes in to the relief of crellius against himself ; for in his notes upon this place , though he had before said , that the word was never used in the new testament in that sense , yet he there saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is abstulit , for which he referrs us to heb. . . where he proceeds altogether as subtilly as crellius had done before him , for he tells us 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is put for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 numb . . . deut. . . isa. . . but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is put for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , lev. . . numb . . . a most excellent way of interpreting scripture ! considering the various significations of the hebrew words ; and above all of that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is here mention'd . for according to this way of arguing , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shall signifie the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies all these , and is rendred by them in the greek version , so that by the same way that grotius proves that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we can prove that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not signifie to take away , but to bear punishment ; nay , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies the bearing punishment in the strictest sense , ezek. . , . and bearing sin in that sense , ezek. . . thou hast born thy lewdness , and thy abominations , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so that when 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is more frequently used in this than in the other sense , why shall its signifying 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 at any time make 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be taken in the same sense with that ? nay , i do not remember in any place where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is joyned with sin , but it signifies the punishment of it , so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , levit. . . to bear his iniquity , levit. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , bearing their iniquity in one verse is explained by being cut off from among their people , in the next . and in the places cited by grotius , that numb . . . hath been already shewed to signifie bearing the punishment of sin , and that deut. . . is plainly understood of a sacrifice , the other , isa. . . will be afterwards made appear by other places in the same chapter , to signifie nothing to this purpose . so that for all we can yet see , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must be taken either for bearing our sins as a sacrifice did under the law , or the punishment of them ; in either sense it serves our purpose , but is far enough from our adversaries meaning . but supposing we should grant them , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may signifie to take away , let us see what excellent sense they make of these words of s. peter . do they then say , that christ did take away our sins upon the cross ? no , they have a great care of that , for that would make the expiation of sins to have been performed there ; which they utterly deny , and say , that christ only took the cross in his way to his ascension to heaven , that there he might expiate sins . but doth not s. peter say , that what was done by him here , was in his body on the tree : and they will not say , he carryed that with him to heaven too . well , but what then was the taking away of sin which belong'd to christ upon the cross ? is it only to perswade men to live vertuously , and leave off their sins ? this socinus would have , and crellius is contented that it should be understood barely of taking away sins , and not of the punishment of them , but only by way of accession and consequence : but if it be taken ( which he inclines more to ) for the punishment , then ( he saith ) it is to be understood not of the vertue and efficacy of the death of christ , but of the effect : and yet a little after he saith , those words of christs bearing our sins , are to be understood of the force and efficacy of christs death to do it , not including the effect of it in us ; not as though christ did deliver us from sins by his death , but that he did that by dying , upon which the taking away of sin would follow , or which had a great power for the doing it . so uncertain are our adversaries , in affixing any sense upon these words , which may attribute any effect at all , to the death of christ upon the cross. for if they be understood of taking away sins , then they are onely to be meant of the power that was in the death of christ , to perswade men to leave their sins ; which we must have a care of understanding so , as to attribute any effect to the death of christ in order to it ; but onely that the death of christ was an argument for us to believe what he said , and the believing what he said would incline us to obey him , and if we obey him , we shall leave off our sins , whether christ had dyed or no : supposing his miracles had the same effect on us , which those of moses had upon the jews , which were sufficient to perswade them to believe and obey without his death . but if this be all that was meant by christs bearing our sins in his body on the tree ; why might not s. peter himself be said to bear them upon his cross too ? for his death was an excellent example of patience , and a great argument to perswade men he spake truth , and that doctrine which he preached , was repentance and remission of sins : so that by this sense , there is nothing peculiar attributed to the death of christ. but taking the other sense for the taking away the punishment of sins , we must see how this belongs to the death of christ : do they then attribute our delivery from the punishment to sin , to the death of christ on the cross ? yes , just as we may attribute caesars subduing rome , to his passing over rubicon , because he took that in his way to the doing of it : so they make the death of christ onely as a passage , in order to expiation of sins , by taking away the punishment of them . for that shall not be actually perfected , they say , till his full deliverance of all those that obey him , from hell and the grave , which will not be till his second coming . so that if we onely take the body of christ for his second coming , and the cross of christ , or the tree , for his throne of glory , then they will acknowledge , that christ may very well be said , to take away sins in his own body on the tree : but if you take it in any sense that doth imply any peculiar efficacy to the death of christ , for all the plainness of s. peters words , they by no means will admit of it . but because crellius urgeth grotius with the sense of that place , isa. . . out of which he contends these words are taken , and crellius conceives he can prove there , that bearing is the same with taking away sin : we now come to consider , what force he can find from thence , for the justifying his assertion , that the bearing of sins , when attributed to christ , doth not imply the punishment of them , but the taking them away . the words are , for he shall bear their iniquities . as to which grotius observes , that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifies iniquity , is sometimes taken for the punishment of sin , kings . . and the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to bear , and when ever it is joyned with sin or iniquity , in all languages , and especially the hebrew , it signifies to suffer punishment ; for although 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may sometimes signifie to take away , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 never does : so that this phrase can receive no other interpretation . notwithstanding all which , crellius attempts to prove , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here , must be taken in a sense contrary to the natural and perpetual use of the word ; for which his first argument is very infirm , viz. because it is mentioned after the death of christ , and is therefore to be considered as the reward of the other . whereas it appears : . by the prophets discourse , that he doth not insist on an exact methodical order , but dilates and amplifies things as he sees occasion : for vers. . he saith , he made his grave with the wicked , and with the rich in his death ; and vers. . he saith , yet it pleased the lord to bruise him , he hath put him to grief : will crellius therefore say , that this must be consequent to his death and burial ? . the particle , may be here taken causally , as we render it , very agreeably to the sense ; and so it gives an account of the fore-going clause , by his knowledge , shall my righteous servant justifie many , for he shall bear their iniquities . and that this is no unusual acception of that particle , might be easily cleared from many places of scripture if it were necessary ; and from this very prophet , as isa. . . where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 king. . . and isa. . . thou art wroth , for we have sinned 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where the same particle is made the causal of what went before . but we need not insist upon this to answer crellius , who elsewhere makes use of it himself , and says , they must be very ignorant of the hebrew tongue , who do not know , that the conjunction copulative is often taken causally ; and so much is confessed by socinus also , where he explains , that particle in one sens●… in the beginning , and causally in the middl●… of the verse : and the lords anger was kindle●… against israel , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for he moved , &c. but i●… this will not do , he attempts to prove●… that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this very chapter , hath the signification of taking away , v. . for he hath bor●… our griefs , and carried our sorrows , which i●… applied by s. matth. . . to bodily diseases , which our saviour did not bear , but took away , as it is said in the foregoing verse , he healed all that were sick on which those words come in , that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by esaias , &c. to which i answer : . it is granted by our adversaries , that s. matthew in those words , doth not give the full sense of the prophet , but onely applies that by way of accommodation , to bodily diseases , which was chiefly intended for the sins of men . and in a way of accommodation it is not unusual to strain words beyond their genuine and natural signification , or what was intended primarily by the person who spake them . would it be reasonable for any to say that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies to give , because that place psal. . . where the word by all is acknowledged to signifie to receive , is rendred to give , eph. . . so that admitting another sense of the word here , as applied to the cure of bodily diseases , it doth not from thence follow , that this should be ●he meaning of the word in the primary ●ense intended by the prophet . . the word as used by s. matthew , is very capable of the primary and natural sense ; for s. matthew retains words of the same signification , with that which we contend for , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , neither of which doth signifie taking away , by causing a thing not to be . so that all that is implied hereby , is the pains and trouble which our saviour took in the healing of the sick . for to that end , as grotius well observes upon that place , the circumstances are mentioned , that it was at even , and multitudes were brought to him in s. matthew , that after sun-set all that were diseased were brought , and all the city was gathered together at the door ; in s. mark , that he departed not till it was day , in s. luke ; that we might the better understand how our saviour did bear our griefs , because the pains he took in healing them were so great . and here i cannot but observe , that grotius in his notes on that place , continued still in the same minde he was in , when he writ against socinus ; for he saith , those words may either refer to the diseases of the body , and so they note the pains he took in the cure of them ; or to our sins , and so they were fulfilled when christ by suffering upon t●… cross , did obtain remission of sins for 〈◊〉 as s. peter saith , pet. . . but upon what reason the annotations on that pla●… come to be so different from his sense e●… pressed here , long after crellius his answe●… i do not understand . but we are sure 〈◊〉 declared his mind , as to the main of th●… controversie , to be the same , that it w●… when he writ his book which crellius answered ; as appears by two letters of h●… to vossius , not long since published ; an● he utterly disowns the charge of socinianisa , as a calumny in his discussion , the last book he ever writ . but we are no further obliged to vindicate grotius , than he did the truth ; which we are sure he did in the vindication of the of isaiah , from socinus his interpretations , notwithstanding what crellius hath objected against him . we therefore proceed to other verses in the same chapter insisted on by grotius , to prove that christ did bear the punishment of our sins , v. , . the lord hath laid on him the iniquities of us all : it is required , and he was afflicted , as grotius renders those words . socinus makes a twofold sense of the former clause ; the first is , that god by or with christ did meet with our iniquities ; the latter , that god did make our iniquities to meet with christ. the ●ords saith grotius , will not bear the for●er interpretation ; for the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be●…g in hiphil , must import a double action , ●nd so it must not be , that god by him did ●…eet with our sins , but that god did make our ●…s to meet upon him . to which crellius●…eplies ●…eplies , that words in hiphil are somtimes ●…sed intransitively ; but can he produce any ●…nstance in scripture , where this word ●…oyned with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is so taken ? for in the last verse of the chapter , the construction is different : and what an uncertain way of interpreting scripture will this be , if every anomalous signification , and rare use of a word , shall be made use of to take away such a sense as is most agreeable to the design of the place . for that sense we contend for , is not onely enforced upon the most natural importance of these words , but upon the agreeableness of them with so many other expressions of this chapter , that christ did bear our iniquities , and was wounded for our transgressions , and that his soul was made an offering for sin : to which it is very suitable , that as the iniquities of the people were ( as it were ) laid upon the head of the sacrifice ; so it should be said of christ , who was to offer up himself for the sins of the world . and the jews themselves by this phrase do understand the punishme●… either for the sins of the people , wh●… josias underwent , or which the people the●… selves suffered , by those who interpret 〈◊〉 prophecy of them . to which purpos●… aben ezra observes , that iniquity is here 〈◊〉 for the punishment of it , as sam. . . lam. . . but socinus mistrusting the i●… congruity of this interpretation , flies 〈◊〉 another ; viz. that god did make our i●… quities to meet with christ : and this we 〈◊〉 willing to admit of , if by that they me●… that christ underwent the punishment 〈◊〉 them ; as that phrase must naturally i●… port , for what otherwise can our iniqui●… meeting with him signifie ? for the word 〈◊〉 taken properly ( as socinus acknowledg●… it ought to be , when he rejects pagni●… interpretation of making christ to int●… cede for our iniquities ) signifies eith●… to meet with one by chance , or out 〈◊〉 kindeness , or else for an encounter , wi●… an intention to destroy that which it me●… with . so judg. . . rise thou 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 lxx irrue in nos , fall upon 〈◊〉 i. e. run upon us with thy sword , and ki●… us , judg. . . swear unto me , that 〈◊〉 will not fall upon me your selves ; where th●… same word is used , and they explain th●… meaning of it in the next words , v. ●… we will not kill thee , amos . . as if a man ●…dia flee from a lyon , and a bear met him , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. with a design to kill him . now i suppose they will not say that our sins met with christ by chance , since it is said , that god laid on him , &c. nor out of kindness ; it must be therefore out of enmity , and with a design to destroy him , and so our sins cannot be understood as socinus and crellius would have them , as the meer occasions of christs death : but as the proper impulsive cause of it . whether the following word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be taken with a respect to sin , and so it properly signifies it is required , or with a respect to the person , and so it may signifie he was oppressed , is not a matter of that consequence , which we ought to contend about ; if it be proved that christs expression had only a respect to sin , as the punishment of it . which will yet further appear from another expression in the same chapter , ver . . the chastisement of our peace was upon him , and by his stripes we are healed . in which grotius saith the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not signifie any kind of affliction , but such as hath the nature of punishment , either for example or instruction ; but since the latter cannot be intended in christ , the former must . crellius thinks to escape from this , by acknowledging that the sufferings of christ have some respect to sin ; but if it be such a respect to sin , which makes what christ underwent a punishment ( which is only proper in this case ) it is as much as we contend for . this therefore he is loth to abide by ; and saith , that chastisement imports no more than bare affliction without any respect to sin , which he thinks to prove from st. pauls words , cor. . . we are chastised , but not given over to death ; but how far this is from proving his purpose will easily appear , . because those by whom they were said to be chastened , did not think they did it without any respect to a fault ; but they supposed them to be justly punished ; and this is that we plead for , that the chastisement considered with a respect to him that inflicts it , doth suppose some fault as the reason of inflicting it . . this is far from the present purpose , for the chastisement there mentioned is opposed to death , as chastened , but not killed ; whereas grotius expresly speaks of such chastisements as include death , that these cannot be supposed to be meerly designed for instruction , and therefore must be conceived under the notion of punishment . the other place psal. . . is yet more remote from the business ; for though the psalmist accounts himself innocent in respect of the great enormities of others ; yet he could not account himself so innocent with a respect to god , as not to deserve chastisement from him . but crellius offers further to prove that christs death must be considered as a bare affliction , and not as a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or exemplary punishment , because in such a punishment the guilty themselves are to be punished , and the benefit comes to those who were not guilty , but in christs sufferings it was quite contrary , for the innocent was punished , and the guilty have the benefit of it : and yet ( he saith ) if we should grant that christs sufferings were a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that will not prove that his death was a proper punishment . to which i answer , that whatever answers to the ends of an exemplary punishment , may properly be called so : but supposing that christ suffered the punishment of our sins , those sufferings will answer to all the ends of an exemplary punishment . for the ends of such a punishment assigned by crellius himself , are , that others observing such a punishment , may abstain from those sins which have brought it upon the person who suffers . now the question is , whether supposing christ did suffer on the account of our sins , these sufferings of his may deterr us from the practice of sin or no ? and therefore in opposition to crellius , i shall prove these two things : . that supposing christ suffered for our sins , there was a sufficient argument to deterr us from the practice of sin . . supposing that his sufferings had no respect to our sins , they could not have that force to deterr men from the practice of it : for he after asserts , that christs sufferings might be a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to us , though they were no punishment of sin . . that the death of christ considered as a punishment of sin , is a proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or hath a great force to deterr men from the practice of sin : and that because the same reason of punishment is supposed in christ and in our selves , and because the example is much more considerable , than if we had suffered our selves . . the same reason of punishment is supposed . for why are men deterred from sin , by seeing others punished ; but because they look upon the sin as the reason of the punishment ; and therefore where the same reason holds , the same ends may be as properly obtained . if we said that christ suffered death meerly as an innocent person out of gods dominion over his life ; what imaginable force could this have to deterr men from sin , which is asserted to have no relation to it as the cause of it ? but when we say , that god laid our iniquities upon him , that he suffered not upon his own account but ours , that the sins we commit against god were the cause of all those bitter agonies which the son of god underwent , what argument can be more proper to deter men from sin than this is ? for hereby they see the great abhorrency of sin which is in god , that he will not pardon the sins of men without a compensation made to his honour , and a demonstration to the world of his hatred of it . hereby they see what a value god hath for his laws , which he will not relax as to the punishment of offenders , without so valuable a consideration as the blood of his own son. hereby they see , that the punishment of sin is no meer arbitrary thing depending barely upon the will of god ; but that there is such a connexion between sin and punishment as to the ends of government , that unless the honor and majesty of god , as to his laws and government may be preserved , the violation of his laws must expect a just recompence of reward . hereby they see what those are to expect who neglect or despise these sufferings of the son of god for them ; for nothing can then remain , but a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries . so that , here all the weighty arguments concurr which may be most apt to prevail upon men to deterr them from their sins . for if god did thus by the green tree , what will he do by the dry ? if he who was so innocent in himself , so perfectly holy , suffered so much on the account of our sins ; what then may those expect to suffer , who have no innocency at all to plead , and add wilfulness and impenitency to their sins ? but if it be replyed by crellius , that it is otherwise among men : i answer , that we do not pretend in all things to parallel the sufferings of christ for us , with any sufferings of men for one another . but yet we add , that even among men the punishments inflicted on those who were themselves innocent as to the cause of them , may be as exemplary as any other . and the greater appearance of severity there is in them , the greater terror they strike into all offenders . as childrens losing their estates and honors , or being banished for their parents treasons in which they had no part themselves . which is a proper punishment on them of their fathers faults , whether they be guilty or no ; and if this may be just in men , why not in god ? if any say , that the parents are only punished in the children , he speaks that which is contradictory to the common sense of mankind ; for punishment doth suppose sense or feeling of it ; and in this case the parents are said to be punished , who are supposed to be dead and past feeling of it , and the children who undergo the smart of it must not be said to be punished ; though all things are so like it , that no person can imagine himself in that condition , but would think himself punished , and severely too . if it be said , that these are calamities indeed , but they are no proper punishments , it may easily be shewed that distinction will not hold here . because these punishments were within the design of the law , and were intended for all the ends of punishments , and therefore must have the nature of them . for therefore the children are involved in the fathers punishment on purpose to deterr others from the like actions . there are some things indeed that children may fall into by occasion of their fathers guilt , which may be only calamities to them , because they are necessary consequents in the nature of the thing , and not purposely designed as a punishment to them . thus , being deprived of the comfort and assistance of their parents , when the law hath taken them off by the hand of justice : this was designed by the law as a punishment to the parents , and as to the children it is only a necessary consequent of their punishment . for otherwise the parents would have been punished for the childrens faults , and not the children only involved in that which unavoidably follows upon the parents punishment . so that crellius is very much mistaken either in the present case of our saviours punishment , or in the general reason of exemplary punishments , as among men . but the case of our saviour is more exemplary , when we consider the excellency of his person , though appearing in our nature , when no meaner sufferings would satisfie , than of so transcendent a nature as he underwent , though he were the eternal son of god , this must make the punishment much more exemplary , than if he were considered only as our adversaries do , as a meer man. so that the dignity of his person under all his sufferings may justly add a greater consideration to deterr us from the practice of sin , which was so severely punished in him , when he was pleased to be a sacrifice for our sins . from whence we see that the ends of a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are very agreeable with the sufferings of christ considered as a punishment for sin . we now consider whether as crellius asserts , supposing christs death were no punishment , it could have these effects upon mens minds or no ? yes , he saith , it might , because by his sufferings we might see how severely god would punish wicked and obstinate persons . which being a strange riddle at the first hearing it , viz. that by the sufferings of an innocent person without any respect to sin as the cause of them : we should discern gods severity against those who are obstinate in sin ; we ought the more diligently to attend to what is said for the clearing of it . first , saith he , if god spared not his own most innocent and holy and only son , than whom nothing was more dear to him in heaven or earth , but exposed him to so cruel and ignominious a death ; how great and severe sufferings may we think god will inflict on wicked men , who are at open defiance with him ? i confess my self not subtle enough to apprehend the force of this argument , viz. if god dealt so severely with him who had no sin either of his own or others to answer for 〈◊〉 therefore he will deal much more severely with those that have . for gods severity consider'd without any respect t●… sin , gives rather encouragement to sinners , than any argument to deterre them from it . for the natural consequence of it is , that god doth act arbitrarily , without any regard to the good or evi● of mens actions ; and therefore it is to no purpose to be sollicitous about them . for upon the same account that the most innocent person suffers most severely from him , for all that we know , the more we strive to be innocent , the more severely we may be dealt with , and let men sin , they can be but dealt severely with , all the difference then is , one shall be call'd punishments , and the other calamities , but the severity may be the same in both . and who would leave off his sins meerly to change the name of punishments into that of calamities ? and from hence it will follow , that the differences of good and evil , and the respects of them to punishment and reward , are but aiery and empty things ; but that god really in the dispensation of things to men , hath no regard to what men are or do , but acts therein according to his own dominion , whereby he may dispose of men how or which way he pleases . if a prince had many of his subjects in open rebellion against him , and he should at that time make his most obedient and beloved son to be publickly exposed to all manner of indignities , and be dishonoured and put to death by the hands of those rebells ; could any one imagine that this was designed as an exemplary punishment to all rebels , to let them see the danger of rebellion ? no , but would it not rather make them think him a cruel prince , one that would punish innocency as much as rebellion ; and that it was rather better to stand at defiance , and become desperate , for it was more dangerous to be beloved than hated by him , to be his son than his declared enemy ? so that insisting on the death of christ as it is considered as a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( for of that we speak now ) there is no comparison between our adversaries hypothesis and ours ; but , saith crellius , the consequence is not good on our side , if christ suffered the punishment of our sins , therefore they shall suffer much more who continue in sin , for christ suffered for the sins of the whole world ; but they suffer only for their own , and what they have deserved themselves . to which i answer , that the argument is of very good force upon our hypothesis , though it would not be upon theirs . for if we suppose him to be a meer man that suffer'd , then there could be no argument drawn from his sufferings to ours , but according to the exact proportion of sins and punishments : but supposing that he had a divine as well as humane nature , there may not be so great a proportion of the sins of the world to the sufferings of christ , as of the sins of a particular person to his own sufferings ; and therefore the argument from one to the other doth still hold . for the measure of punishments must be taken with a proportion to the dignity of the person who suffers them . and crellius himself confesseth elsewhere , that the dignity of the person is to be considered in exemplary punishment , and that a lesser punishment of one that is very great , may do much more to deterre men from sin , than a greater punishment of one much less . but he yet further urgeth , that the severity of god against sinners may be discovered in the sufferings of christ , because gods hatred against sin is discovered therein . but if we ask how gods hatred against sin , is seen in the sufferings of one perfectly innocent and free from sin , and not rather his hatred of innocency , if no respect to sin were had therein ? he answers , that gods hatred against sin was manifested , in that he would not spare his only son to draw men off from sin . for answer to which , we are to consider the sufferings of christ as an innocent person , designed as an exemplary cause to draw men off from sin ; and let any one tell me , what hatred of sin can possibly be discover'd , in proposing the sufferings of a most innocent person to them without any consideration of sin as the cause of those sufferings ? if it be said , that the doctrine of christ was designed to draw men off from sin ; and that god suffered his son to dye to confirm this doctrine , and thereby shewed his hatred to sin . i answer , . this is carrying the dispute off from the present business , for we are not now arguing about the design of christs doctrine , nor the death of christ as a means to confirm that , but as a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and what power that hath without respect to our sins as the cause of them , to draw us from sin , by discovering gods hatred to it . . the doctrine of christ according to their hypothesis , discovers much less of gods hatred to sin than ours doth . for if god may pardon sin without any compensation made to his laws or honour , if repentance be in its own nature a sufficient satisfaction for all the sins past of our lives ; if there be no such thing as such a justice in god which requires punishment of sin committed ; if the punishment of sin depend barely upon gods will ; and the most innocent person may suffer as much from god without respect to sin as the cause of suffering , as the most guilty ; let any rational man judge whether this doctrine discovers as much gods abhorrency of sin , as asserting the necessity of vindicating gods honour to the world , by the breach of his laws , if not by the suffering of the offenders themselves , yet of the son of god as a sacrifice for the expiation of sin , by undergoing the punishment of our iniquities , so as upon consideration of his sufferings , he is pleased to accept of repentance and sincere obedience , as the conditions upon which he will grant remission of sins , and eternal life . so that if the discovery of gods hatred to sin be the means to reclaim men from it , we assert upon the former reasons , that much more is done upon our doctrine concerning the sufferings of christ , than can be upon theirs . so much shall suffice to manifest in what sense christs death may be a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and that this doth imply , that his sufferings are to be considered as a punishment of sin . the next series of places which makes christs sufferings to be a punishment for sin , are those which assert christ to be made sin and a curse for us : which we now design to make clear , ought to be understood in no other sense ; for as grotius saith , as the jews sometimes use sin , for the punishment of sin ; as appears , besides other places , by zach. . . gen. . . so they call him that suffers the punishment of sin , by the name of sin ; as the latins use the word piaculum , both for the fault , and for him that suffers for it . thence under the law , an expiatory sacrifice for sin , was called sin , levit. . , — . . psal. . . which way of speaking esaias followed , speaking of christ , esai . . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he made his soul sin , i. e. liable to the punishment of it . to the same purpose s. paul , cor. . . he made him to be sin for us , who knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him . to which crellius replies , that as there is no necessity , that by the name of sin , when applied to sufferings , any more should be implied , than that those sufferings were occasioned by sin , no more is there when it is applied to the person ; nay , much less , for he saith , no more is required to this , but that he should be handled as sinners use to be , and undergo the matter of punishment , without any respect to sin , either as the cause or occasion of it . so he saith , the name sinner is used , king. . . and in s. paul , the name of sin in the first clause is to be understood , as of righteousness in the latter ; and as we are said to be righteousness in him , when god deals with us as with righteous persons , so christ was said to be sin for us , when he was dealt with as a sinner . and the sacrifices for sin under the law were so call'd , not with a respect to the punishment of sin , but because they were offered upon the account of sin , and were used for taking away the guilt of it ; or because men were bound to offer them , so that they sinned if they neglected it . so that all that is meant by esaias and s. paul is , that christ was made an expiatory sacrifice , or that he exposed himself for those afflictions which sinners onely by right undergo . but let crellius or any others of them tell me , if the scripture had intended to express , that the sufferings of christ were a punishment of our sins , how was it possible to do it more emphatically than it is done by these expressions ( the custom of the hebrew language being considered ) not onely by saying , that christ did bear our sins , but , that himself was made sin for us ? those phrases being so commonly used for the punishment of sin . let them produce any one instance in scripture , where those expressions are applied to any without the consideration of sin ? that place king. . . is very far from it ; for in all probability , the design of bathsheba in making solomon king was already discovered , which was the reason that adonijah his elder brother declaring himself king , invited not him with the rest of the kings sons : all that she had for solomons succession , was a secret promise and oath of david ; and therefore she urgeth him now to declare the succession , v. ● . otherwise , she saith , when david should dye , i and my son solomon shall be accounted offenders ; i. e. saith crel●… . we shall be handled as offenders , we shall be destroyed : but surely not without the supposition of a fault , by them which should inflict that punishment upon them : the plain meaning is , they should be accused of tr●a ●n , and then punished accordingly . but we are to consider , that still with a respect to them , who were the inflicters , a fault or sin is supposed as the reason of their punishment , either of their own or others . but of our saviour it is not said , that he should be counted as an offender by the jews ; for although that doth not take away his innocency , yet it supposeth an accusation of something , which in it self deserves punishment . but in esai . . . it is said , he made his soul sin ; and cor. . . that god made him sin for us , which must therefore imply , not being dealt with by men onely as a sinner , but that with a respect to him who inflicted the punishment , there was a consideration of sin as the reason of it . we do not deny but gods suffering him to be dealt with as a sinner by men , is implied in it , for that was the method of his punishment designed ; but we say further , that the reason of that permission in god , doth suppose some antecedent cause of it : for god would never have suffered his onely son , to be so dealt with by the hands of cruel men , unless he had made himself an offering for sin ; being willing to undergo those sufferings , that he might be an expiatory sacrifice for the sins of the world . and although socinus will not yield , that by being made sin for us , should be understood christs being an expiatory sacrifice for sin ; yet crellius is contented it should be so taken in both places : which if he will grant , so as by virtue of that sacrifice , the guilt of sin is expiated , we shall not contend with him about the reasons , why those sacrifices were call'd sins , although the most proper and genuine must needs be that , which is assigned by the law , that the sins of the people were supposed to be laid upon them , and therefore they were intended for the expiation of them : but it is very unreasonable to say , that expiatory sacrifices were called sins , because it would have been a sin to neglect them : for on the same account , all the other sacrifices must have been call'd so too ; for it was a sin to neglect any where god required them , and so there had been no difference between sacrifices for sin and others . to that reason of crellius , from our being made righteous , because dealt with as such , to christs being made sin onely , because dealt with as a sinner , we need no more than what this parallel will afford us ; for as crellius would never say , that any are dealt with as righteous persons , who are not antecedently supposed to be so ; so by his own argument , christs being dealt with as a sinner , must suppose guilt antecedent to it ; and since the apostle declares it was not his own , in those words , who knew no sin , it follows that it must be the consideration of ours , which must make him be dealt with as a sinner by him , who made him to be sin for us . but to suppose that christ should be said to be made sin , without any respect to sin , is as much as if the latins should call any one scelus , and mean thereby a very honest man ; or a piaculum , without any supposition of his own or others guilt . but we are to consider , that the sufferings of christ , seeming at first so inconsistent with that relation to god as his onely son , which the apostles assert concerning him , they were obliged to vindicate his innocency as to men , and yet withal to shew , that with a respect to god , there was sufficient reason for his permission of his undergoing these sufferings . that he knew no sin , was enough to clear his innocency as to men ; but then the question will be asked , if he were so innocent , why did god suffer all those things to come upon him ? did not abraham plead of old with god , that he would not slay the righteous with the wicked , because it was repugnant to the righteousness of his nature to do so ; that be far from thee to do after this manner , to slay the righteous with the wicked , and that the righteous should be as the wicked , that be far from thee ; shall not the judge of all the earth do right ? how then comes god to suffer the most perfect innocency to be dealt with so , as the greatest sins could not have deserved worse from men ? was not his righteousness the same still ? and abraham did not think the distinction of calamities and punishments , enough to vindicate gods proceedings , if the righteous should have been dealt withall as the wicked . and if that would hold for such a measure of righteousness as might be supposed in such who were not guilty of the great abominations of those places , that it should be enough , not onely to deliver themselves , but the wicked too ; how comes it that the most perfect obedience of the son of god , is not sufficient to excuse him from the greatest sufferings of malefactors ? but if his sufferings had been meerly from men , god been accountable onely for the bare permission ; but it is said , that he fore-ordained and determined these things to be , that christ himself complained , that god had forsaken him ; and here , that he made him sin for us : and can we imagine all this to be without any respect to the guilt of sin , as the cause of it ? why should such an expression be used of being made sin ? might not many others have served sufficiently to declare the indignities and sufferings he underwent , without such a phrase as seems to reflect upon christs innocency ? if there had been no more in these expressions than our adversaries imagine , the apostles were so careful of christs honour , they would have avoided such ill-sounding expressions as these were ; and not have affected hebraisms , and uncouth forms of speech , to the disparagement of their religion . but this is all which our adversaries have to say , where words are used by them out of their proper sense , that the prophets and apostles affected tricks of wit , playing with words , using them sometimes in one sense , and presently quite in another . so crellius saith of esaiah , that he affects little elegancies of words and verbal allusions , which makes him use words sometimes out of their proper and natural sense ; thence he tells us , the sufferings of christ are called chastisement , though they have nothing of the nature of chastisements in them : and from this liberty of interpreting , they make words ( without any other reason , than that they serve for their purpose ) be taken in several senses in the same verse : for socinus in one verse of s. johns gospel , makes the world be taken in three several senses : he was in the world , there it is taken , saith he , for the men of the world in general : the world was made by him , there it must be understood onely of the reformation of things by the gospel ; and , the world knew him not , there it must be taken in neither of the former senses , but for the wicked of the world : what may not one make of the scripture , by such a way of interpreting it ? but by this we have the less reason to wonder , that socinus should put such an interpretation upon gal. . . christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law , being made a curse for us ; for it is written , cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree : in which he doth acknowledge by the curse , in the first clause to be meant , the punishment of sin , but not in the second : and the reason he gives for it is , amavit enim paulus in execrationis verbo argutus esse . s. paul affected playing with the word curse , understanding it first in a proper , and then a metaphorical sense . but it is plain , that the design of s. paul and socinus are very different in these words : socinus thinks he speaks onely metaphorically , when he saith , that christ was made a curse for us ; i. e. by a bare allusion of the name , without a correspondency in the thing it self ; and so that the death of christ might be called a curse , but was not so : but s. paul speaks of this not by way of extenuation , but to set forth the greatness and weight of the punishment he underwent for us . he therefore tells us , what it was which christ did redeem us from , the curse of the law ; and how he did it , by being not onely made a curse , but a curse for us ; i. e. not by being hateful to god , or undergoing the very same curse , which we should have done ; which are the two things objected by crellius against our sense ; but that the death of christ was to be considered , not as a bare separation of soul and body , but as properly poenal , being such a kind of death , which none but malefactors by the law were to suffer ; by the undergoing of which punishment in our stead , he redeemed us from that curse which we were liable to by the violation of the law of god. and there can be no reason to appropriate this onely to the jews , unless the death of christ did extend onely to the deliverance of them from the punishment of their sins ; or because the curse of the law did make that death poenal , therefore the intention of the punishment , could reach no further than the law did ; but the apostle in the very next words speaks of the farther extension of the great blessing promised to abraham , that it should come upon the gentiles also ; and withall those whom the apostle speaks to , were not jews , but such as thought they ought to joyn the law & gospel together : that st. paul doth not mean as crellius would have it , that christ by his death did confirm the new covenant , and so take away the obligation of the law ; ( for to what end was the curse mentioned for that ? what did the accursedness of his death add to the confirmation of the truth of his doctrine ? and when was ever the curse taken for the continuance of the law of moses ? ) but that christ by the efficacy of his death as a punishment for sin hat redeemed all that believe and obey him from the curse deserved by their sins , whether inforced by the law of moses , or the law written in their hearts , which tells the consciences of sinners , that such who violate the laws of god are worthy of death , and therefore under the curse of the law. we come now to the force of the particles which being joyned with our sins as referring to the death of christ , do imply that his death is to be considered as a punishment of sin . not that we insist on the force of those particles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as though of themselves they did imply this ( for we know they are of various significations according to the nature of the matter they are joyned with ) but that these being joyned with sins and sufferings together , do signifie that those sufferings are the punishment of those sins . thus it is said of christ , that he dyed , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for our sins , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that he suffered once 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that he gave himself , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that he offered a sacrifice 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . to which crellius replyes , that if the force of these particles not being joyned with sufferings , may be taken for the final and not for the impulsive cause , they may retain the same sense when joyned with sufferings , if those sufferings may be designed in order to an end ; but if it should be granted , that those phrases being joyned with sufferings , do alwayes imply a meritorious cause , yet it doth not follow , it should not be here so understood because the matter will not bear it . to this a short answer will at present serve : for , it is not possible a meritorious cause can be expressed more emphatically than by these words being joyned to sufferings : so that we have as clear a testimony from these expressions as words can give ; and by the same arts by which these may be avoided any other might ; so that it had not been possible for our doctrine to have been expressed such a manner , but such kind of answers might have been given as our adversaries now give . if it had been said in the plainest terms , that christs death was a punishment for our sins , they would as easily have avoided the force of them as they do of these ; they would have told us the apostles delighted in an antanaclasis , and had expressed things different from the natural use of the words by them ; and though punishment were sometimes used properly , yet here it must be used only metaphorically because the matter would bear no other sense . and therefore i commend the ingenuity of socinus after all the pains he had taken to enervate the force of those places which are brought against his doctrine ; he tells us plainly , that if our doctrine were not only once , but frequently mentioned in scripture ; yet he would not therefore believe the thing to be so as we suppose . for , saith he , seeing the thing it self cannot be , i take the least inconvenient interpretation of the words ; and draw forth such a sense from them , as is most consistent with it self and the tenour of the scripture . but for all his talking of the tenour of the scripture , by the same reason he interprets one place upon these terms , he will do many , and so the tenour of the scripture shall be never against him : and by this we find , that the main strength of our adversaries is not pretended to lye in the scriptures ; all the care they have of them is only to reconcile them if possible with their hypothesis ; for they do not deny but that the natural force of the words doth imply what we contend for ; but because they say the doctrine we assert is inconsistent with reason , therefore all their design is to find out any other possible meaning , which they therefore assert to be true , because more agreeable to the common reason of mankind . this therefore is enough for our present purpose , that if it had been the design of scripture to have expressed our sense , it could not have done it in plainer expressions than it hath done , that no expressions could have been used , but the same arts of our adversaries might have been used to take off their force , which they have used to those we now urge against them , and that setting aside the possibility of the thing , the scripture doth very fairly deliver the doctrine we contend for ; or , supposing in point of reason there may be arguments enough to make it appear possible , there are scriptures enough to make it appear true . chap. iii. the words of scripture being at last acknowledged by our adversaries to make for us , the only pretence remaining is that our doctrine is repugnant to reason . the debate managed upon point of reason . the grand difficulty enquired into , and manifested by our adversaries concessions , not to lye in the greatness of christs sufferings , or that our sins were the impulsive cause of them , or that it is impossible that one ●…uld be punished for anothers faults : or in all cases unjust : the cases wherein crellius allows it , instanced . from whence it it proved that he yields the main cause . the arguments propounded whereby he attempts to prove it unjust for christ to be punished for our sins . crellius his principles of the justice of punishments examined . of the relation between desert and punishment . that a person by his own consent may be punished beyond the desert of his own actions . an answer to crellius his objections . what it is to suffer undeservedly . crellius his mistake in the state of the question . the instances of scripture considered . in what sense children are punished for their parents sins . ezek. . . explained at large . whether the guilty being freed by the sufferings of an innocent person makes that punishment unjust or no ? crellius his shifts and evasions in this matter discovered . why among men the offenders are not freed in criminal matters though the sureties be punished . the release of the party depends on the terms of the sureties suffering , therefore deliverance not ipso facto . no necessity of such a translation in criminal , as is in pecuniary matters . having gained so considerable concessions from our adversaries concerning the places of scripture , we come now to debate the matter in point of reason . and if there appear to be nothing repugnant in the nature of the thing , or to the justice of god , then all their loud clamours will come to nothing ; for on that they fix , when they talk the most of our doctrine being contrary to reason . this therefore we now come more closely to examine , in order to which we must carefully enquire what it is , they lay the charge of injustice in god upon , according to our belief of christs sufferings being a punishment for our sins . . it is not , that the offenders themselve● do not undergo the full punishment of the●… sins . for they assert , that there is no necessity at all that the offenders should be punished from any punitive justice in god : for they eagerly contend that god may freely pardon the sins of men : if so , then it can be no injustice in god not to punish the offenders according to the full desert of their sins . . it is not , that god upon the sufferings of christ doth pardon the sins of men : for they yield that god may do this without any charge of injustice , and with the greatest demonstration of his kindness . for they acknowledge , that the sufferings of christ are not to be considered as a bare antecedent condition to pardon , but that they were a moving cause as far as the obedience of christ in suffering was very acceptable to god. . it is not , in the greatness or matter of the sufferings of christ. for they assert the same which we do . and therefore i cannot but wonder to meet sometimes with those strange out-cries of our making god cruel in the punishing of his son for us : for what do we assert that christ suffered , which they do not assert too ? nay doth it not look much more like cruelty in god to lay those sufferings upon him without any consideration of sin ? as upon their hypothesis he doth ; than to do it supposing he bears the punishment of our iniquities , which is the thing we plead for . they assert all those sufferings to be lawful on the account of gods dominion , which according to them must cease to be so on the supposition of a meritorious cause . but however from this it appears , that it was not unjust that christ should suffer those things which he did for us : the question then is , whether it were unjust that he should suffer the same things , which he might lawfully do on the account of dominion with a respect to our sins as the cause of them ? . as to this , they acknowledge , that it is not , that the sufferings of christ were occasioned by our sins , or that our sins were the bare impulsive cause of those sufferings . for they both confess in general , that one mans sins may be the occasion of anothers punishment , so far that he might have escaped punishment , if the others sins had not been the impulsive cause of it . and therefore crellius in t●… general state of this question , would no●… have it , whether it be unjust to punish o●… for anothers sins ; for that he acknowledge●… it is not , but whether , for any cause whatsoever it be just to punish an innocent person ? and likewise in particular of christ , they confess , that our sins were the impulsive cause , and the occasion of his sufferings . . it is not , that there is so necessary 〈◊〉 relation , between guilt and punishment , that i● cannot be call'd a punishment which is inflicted on an innocent person . for crellius , after a long discourse of the difference of afflictions and punishments , doth acknowledge , that it is not of the nature of punishment , that the person who is to be punished , should really deserve the punishment ; and afterwards when grotius urgeth , that though it be essential to punishment , that it be inflicted for sin , yet it is not , that it be inflicted upon him who hath himself sinned , which he shews , by the similitude of rewards , which though necessary to be given in consideration of service , may yet be given to others besides the person himself upon his account . all this crellius acknowledgeth ; who saith , they do not make it necessary to the nature , but to the justice of punishment , that it be inflicted upon none but the person who hath offended . so by his own confession , it is not against the nature of punishment , that one man suffer for anothers faults . from whence it follows , that all socinus his arguments signifie nothing , which are drawn from the impossibility of the thing , that one man should be punished for anothers faults ; for crellius grants the thing to be possible , but denies it to be just ; yet not absolutely neither , but with some restrictions and limitations . for , . it is not , but that there may be sufficient causes assigned in some particular cases ; wherein it may be just for god to punish some for the sins of others . for crellius himself hath assigned divers . when there is such a neer conjunction between them , that one may be said to be punished in the punishment of another : as parents in their children and posterity , kings in their subjects , or the body of a state in its members , either in the most , or the most principal , though the fewest : but we are to consider , how far he doth extend this way of punishment of some in others . . at the greatest distance of time , if they have been of the same nation ; for he extends it to the utmost degree of gods patience towards a people ; for , saith he , god doth not presently punish as soon as they have sin'd ; but spares for a great while , and forbears , in expectation of their repentance , in the mean while a great many guilty persons dye , and seem to have escaped punishment . but at last the time of gods patience being past , he punisheth their posterity by exacting the full punishment of their sins upon them , and by this means punisheth their ancestors too , and punisheth their sins in their punishment ; for , saith he , all that people are reckon'd for one man of several ages , and that punishment which is taken of the last , may be for the sins of the first , for the conjunction and succession of them : of which we have an example , saith he , in the destruction of hierusalem . by which we see a very remote conjunction , and a meer similitude in comparing a succession of ages in a people with those in a man , may ( when occasion serves ) be made use of to justifie gods punishing one generation of men for the sins of others that have been long before . . when sins are more secret , or less remarkable , which god might not punish , unless an occasion were given from others sins impelling him to it ; but because god would punish one very near them , he therefore punisheth them , that in their punishment he might punish the other : or in case sins spread through a family , or a people , or they are committed by divers persons at sundry times , which god doth not severally punish , but sometimes then , when the head of a people or family hath done something which remarkably deserves punishment , whom he will punish in those he is related to , and therefore generally punisheth the whole family or people . . that which may be a meer exercise of dominion as to some , may be a proper punishment to others ; as in the case of infants , being taken away for their parents sins ; for god , as to the children , he saith , useth only an act of dominion , but the punishment only redounds to the parents , who loose them ; and though this be done for the very end of punishment , yet he denyes , that it hath the nature of punishment in any but the parents . . that punishment may be intended for those who can have no sense at all of it ; as crellius asserts in the case of sauls sons , sam. . . . that the punishment was mainly intended for saul , who was already dead . from these concessions of crellius in this case , we may take notice , . that a remote conjunction may be sufficient for a translation of penalty , viz. from one generation to another . . that sins may be truly said to be punished in others , when the offenders themselves may escape punishment , thus the sins of parents in their children , and princes in their subjects . . that an act of dominion in some may be designed as a proper punishment to others . . that the nature of punishment is not to be measured by the sense of it . now upon these concessions , though our adversaries will not grant , that christ was properly punished for our sins , yet they cannot deny but that we may very properly be said to be punished for our sins in christ , and if they will yield us this , the other may be a strife about words . for surely there may be easily imagined as great a conjunction between christ and us , as between the several generations of the jews , and that last which was punished in the destruction of hierusalem : and though we escape that punishment which christ did undergo , yet we might have our sins punished in him , as well as princes theirs in their subjects , when they escape themselves ; or rather as subjects in an innocent prince , who may suffer for the faults of his people ; if it be said , that these are acts of meer dominion as to such a one , that nothing hinders but granting it , yet our sins may be said to be punished in him ; as well as parents sins are punished properly in meer acts of dominion upon their children ; if it be said , that can be no punishment where there is no sense at all of it , that is fully taken off by crellius ; for surely we have as great a sense of the sufferings of christ , as the first generation of the jews had of the suffering of the last , before the fatal destruction of the city , or as saul had of the punishment of his sons after his death . so that from crellius his own concessions , we have proved , that our sins may very properly be said to be punished in christ , although he will not say , that christ could be properly punished for our sins ; nay he and the rest of our adversaries not only deny it , but earnestly contend , that it is very unjust to suppose it , and repugnant to the rectitude of gods nature to do it . and so we come to consider the mighty arguments that are insisted on for the proof of this , which may be reduced to these three ; viz. . that there can be no punishment but what is deserved , but no man can deserve that another should be punished . . that punishment flows from revenge , but there can be no revenge where there hath been no fault . . that the punishment of one , cannot any ways be made the punishment of another ; and in case it be supposed possible , then those in whose stead the other is punished , must be actually delivered upon the payment of that debt which was owing to god. . that one man cannot deserve anothers punishment , and therefore one cannot be punished for another ; for there is no just punishment , but what is deserved . this being the main argument insisted on by crellius , must be more carefully considered ; but before an answer be made to it , it is necessary that a clear account be given in what sense it is he understands it , which will be best done , by laying down his principles , as to the justice of punishments , in a more distinct method than himself hath done ; which are these following : . that no person can be justly punished , either for his own or anothers faults , but he that hath deserved to be punished by some sin , of his own : for he still asserts , that the justice of punishment ariseth from a mans own fault , though the actual punishment may be from anothers : but he that is punished without respect to his own guilt , is punished undeservedly ; and he that is punished undeservedly , is punished unjustly . . that personal guilt being , supposed one mans sin may be the impulsive cause of anothers punishment , but they cannot be the meritorious . the difference between them he thus explains , the cause , is that which makes a thing to be ; the impulsive , that which moves one to do a thing , without any consideration of right that one hath to do it : merit , is that which makes a man worthy of a thing , either good or bad , and so gives a right to it ; if it be good , to himself ; if bad , to him at whose hands he hath deserved it . now he tells us , that it is impossible , that one mans sins should make any other deserve punishment , but the person who committed them ; but they may impel one to punish another , and that justly , if the person hath otherwise deserved to be punished , unjustly if he hath not . the reason he gives of it is , that the vitiosity of the act , which is the proper cause of punishment , cannot go beyond the person of the offender ; and therefore can oblige none to punishment , but him that hath committed the fault . and therefore he asserts , that no man can be justly punished beyond the desert of his own sins , but there may sometimes be a double impulsive cause of that punishment ; viz. his own and other mens , whereof one made that they might be justly punished , the other that they should be actually : but the latter , he saith , always supposeth the former , as the foundation of just punishment ; so that no part of punishment could be executed upon him , wherein his own sins were not supposed as the meritorious cause of it . these are his two main principles which we must now throughly examine , the main force of his book lying in them . but if we can prove , that it hath been generally received by the consent of mankind , that a person may be punished beyond the desert of his own actions ; if god hath justly punished some for the sins of others , and there be no injustice in one mans suffering by his own consent for another , then these principles of crellius will be found not so firm as he imagines them . . that it hath been generally received ●y the consent of mankind , that a person may be justly punished beyond the desert of his own actions . for which purpose grotius objected against socinus ( who appealed to the consent of nations , about one being punished for anothers fault ) that the heathens did agree , that children might be punished for their parents faults , and people for their princes , and that corporal punishment might be born by one for another , did appear by the persians punishing the whole family for the fault of one . the macedonians the neer kindred in the case of treason , some cities of greece , destroying the children of tyrants together with them ; in all which , the meer conjunction was supposed a sufficient reason without consent ; but in case of consent , he saith , they all agreed in the justice of some being punished for the faults of others . thence the right of killing hostages among the most civilized nations ; and of sureties being punished in capital matters , if the guilty appear not , who were thence caled 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who were bound to answer body for body . in which cases , the punishment did extend beyond the desert of the person who suffered it ; for no other reason is assigned of these sufferings , besides the conjunction of the person , or h●… consent ; but no antecedent guilt is supposed as necessary , to make the punishment just . we are now to consider what crellius doth answer to this : . as to their acknowledgements of gods punishing children for their parents faults , he gives the same answer which he doth to the examples recorded in scripture to that purpose , that either they were punished for the sins 〈◊〉 others , but their own sins deserved the punishment ; or that the parents were punished i●… the children , but the children were not properly punished . . as to punishments among men , he answers two things ; . that such persons were truly punished , but not justly : for he acknowledges , that in such a case it is a proper punishment and that it is enough in order to that that any fault be charged upon a person , whether his own or anothers , whether true or false , on the account of which he is supposed worthy to be punished : and that such a conjunction is sufficient f●… cruel , angry , or imprudent men ; for wher● ever there is a place , saith he , for ange●… there is likewise for punishment . so that he confesseth , there may be a tr●… punishment , and that which answers all th●… reason and ends of punishment assigned by him , where there is no desert at all of it in the person who undergoes it . but then he adds , that this is an unjust punishment , to which i reply , that then the reason of punishment assigned by crellius before is insufficient ; for if this answers all the ends of punishments assigned by him , and yet be unjust , then it necessarily follows , that those ends of punishment are consistent with the greatest injustice . for he before made punishment to have a natural respect to anger , and makes the ordinary end of punishment to be a satisfaction of the desire of revenge in men , yet now grants , that these may be in an unjust punishment . neither can it be said , that he consider'd punishment only naturally , and not morally ; for he tells us , that this is the nature of divine punishments , which are therefore just , because designed for these ends ; but in case there be no supposal of a fault at all , then he denyes that it is a punishment , but only an affliction , and an exercise of dominion . so that according to him , where-ever there is a proper punishment , it must be just , when-ever god doth punish men : and the only difference between god and man supposable in this case is , that we have assurance god will never use his dominion unjustly ; but that men do so when they make one to suffer for anothers fault , notwithstanding a consent and conjunction between the man that committed the fault , and the person that suffers for him . but this is begging the thing in question , for we are debating , whether it be an unlawfull exercise of power or no ? for we have this presumption , that it is not unlawfull , because it may answer all the ends of punishments , and what way can we better judge , w●…ether a punishment be just or no , than by that ? but we are to consider , that we do not here take the person we speak of , abstractly as an innocent person , for then there is no question , but anger and punishment of one as such is unjust ; but of an innocent person as supposed under an obligation by his own consent to suffer for another . and in this case we assert , since according to crellius the natural and proper ends of punishments may be obtained , and the consent of the person takes away the wrong done to him in the matter of his sufferings , so far as he hath power over himself , that such a punishment is not unjust . for if it be , it must suppose some injury to be done ; but in this case let them assign where the injury lyes ; it cannot be to the publick , if the ends of punishments may be obtained by such a suffering of one for another , by a valid consent of the suffering party ; it cannot be to the person in whose room the other suffers , for what injury is that to escape punishment by anothers suffering ; it cannot be to the suffering person , supposing that to be true , which the heathens still supposed , viz. that every man had a power over his own life . if it be said still , that the unjustice lyes in this , that such a one suffers undeservedly , and therefore unjustly . i answer ; if be meant by undeservedly without sufficient cause or reason of punishment , then we deny that such a one doth suffer undeservedly . immerito in the greek glosses is rendred by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and merito by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and in cicero , jure & merito are most commonly joyned together . so that where there is a right to punish , and sufficient reason for it , such a one doth not suffer immerito , i. e. undeservedly . if it be said , that such a one is not dignus poena , that implyes no more than the other , for dignus , or as the ancients writ it dicnus , comes from the greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 jus as vossius tells us , ut dignus sit cui tribui aliquid aquum est : so that where there is an equity in the thing , there is a dignity in the person , or he may be said to be worthy to undergo it . but doth not this lay open the greatest innocency to as great a desert of sufferings , as the highest guilt ? by no means . for we make a lyableness to punishment , the natural consequent of guilt : and he that hath committed a fault , cannot but deserve to be punished , so that no sufferings of others can take away the natural consequence of a bad action , which is a desert of punishment ; so that as we say , a wicked action cannot but deserve to be punished , i. e. there is an agreeableness in reason and nature , that he who hath done ill , should suffer ill ; so we say likewise there is no necessity in nature and reason , that he that hath thus deserved it , must unavoidably suffer it . and on the other side , we say , no man by his innocency can deserve to be punished , i. e. no mans innocency makes him by vertue of that obnoxious to punishment ; but yet we add , that notwithstanding his innocency , the circumstances may be such that he may be justly punished , and in that sense deservedly . so that the question is strangely mistaken , when it is thus put , whether an innocent person consider'd as such , may be justly punished ; for no one asserts that , or is bound to do it ; but the true question is , whether a person notwithstanding his innocency may not by some act of his own will oblige himself to undergo that punishment which otherwise he did not deserve ? which punishment , in that case is just and agreeable to reason : and this is that which we assert and plead for . so that innocency here is not considered any other ways , than whether that alone makes it an unlawfull punishment , which otherwise would be lawfull , i. e. whether the magistrate in such cases , where substitution is admittable by the laws of nations ( as in the cases we are now upon ) be bound to regard any more than that the obligation to punishment now lyes upon the person , who by his own act hath substituted himself in the others room ; and if he proceeds upon this , his action is justifyable and agreeable to reason . if it be said , that the substitution is unjust , unless the substituted person hath before hand deserved to be punished ; it is easily answered , that this makes not the matter at all clearer ; for either the person is punished for the former fault , and then there is no substitution ; or if he be punished by way of substitution , then there is no regard at all had to his former fault , and so it is all one as if he were perfectly innocent . and by this crellius his answer to the instances both in scripture and elsewhere concerning childrens being punished for their parents faults , will appear to be insufficient , viz. that god doth never punish them for their parents faults beyond the desert of their own sins , and therefore no argument can be drawn from thence , that god may punish an innocent person for the sins of others , because he hath punished some for what they were innocent : for the force of the argument doth not lye in the supposition of their innocency , as to the ground of punishment in general , for we do not deny , but that they may deserve to be punished for their own faults : but the argument lyes in this , whether their own guilt were then considered as the reason of punishment , when god did punish them for their fathers faults ? and whether they by their own sins did deserve to be punished not only with the punishment due to their own miscarriages , but with the punishment due to their fathers too ? if not , then some persons are justly punished , who have not deserved that punishment they undergo ; if they did deserve it , then one person may deserve to be punished for anothers sins . if it be said , as it is by crellius , that his own sins make him capable of punishment , and god by occasion of others sins doth execute that punishment , which he might not have done for his own . i answer , we are not enquiring into the bare capacity of punishing , but into the reason of it : was the reason of punishment his own or his fathers sins ? if his own , then he was punished only for his own sins ; if his fathers , then the punishment may be just which is inflicted without consideration of proper desert of it ; for no man ( say they ) can deserve to be punished , but for his own sins . but it 's said , that the sins of fathers are only an impulsive cause for god to punish the children according to the desert of their own sins , which he might otherwise have forborn to punish . then , the sins of the fathers are no reason why the children should be punished ; but their own sins are the reason , and their fathers the bare occasion of being punished for them . but in scripture , the reason of punishment is drawn from the fathers sins : and not from the childrens : for then the words would have run thus , if the children sin , and deserve punishment by their own iniquities , then i will take occasion from their fathers sins , to visit their own iniquities upon them : whereas the words referre to the fathers sins as the reason of the childrens punishment . so in the words of the law , wherein the reason of punishment ought to be most expresly assigned , it is not , i will certainly punish the children , if they continue in the idolatry of their fathers ; but , i will visit the sins of the fathers upon the children , unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me : if it were onely because of imitation of the fathers sins by the children , there could be no reason for the limitation to the third and fourth generation ; for then the reason of punishment would be as long as the imitation continued , whether to the fourth or tenth generation : and as alphonsus à castro observes , if the reason of punishment were the imitation of their fathers sins , then the children were not punished for their fathers sins , but for their own ; for that imitation was a sin of their own , and not of their fathers . besides , if the proper reason of punishment were the sins of the children , and the fathers sins onely the occasion of it , then where it is mentioned that children are punished for their parents sins , the childrens sins should have been particularly expressed , as the proper cause of the punishment : but no other reason is assigned in the law , but the sins of the fathers , no other cause mentioned of canaans punishment , but his fathers sin ; nor of the punishment of the people in davids time , but his own sin ; lo , i have sinned , and i have done wickedly , but these sheep , what have they done ? which is no hyperbolical expression , but the assigning the proper cause of that judgement to have been his own sin , as the whole chapter declares : nor , of the hanging up of sauls sons by the gibeonites , but , that saul their father had plotted their destruction . and in an instance more remarkable than any of those which crellius answers ; viz. the punishment of the people of judah , for the sins of manasses in the time of josias ; when a through reformation was designed among them , the prince being very good , and all the places of idolatry destroyed , such a passover kept as had not been kept before in the time of any king in israel , yet it then follows , notwithstanding the lord turned not from the fierceness of his great wrath , wherewith his anger was kindled against judah , because of all the provocations wherewith manasses had provoked him withal . who can say here , that the sins of manasseh were only the occasion of gods punishing the people in the time of josias for their own sins , when their sins were much less in the time of josias , than in any time mentioned before , after their lapse into idolatry ? nay , it is expresly said , that josiah took away all the abominations out of all the countreys that pertained to the children of israel , and made all that were present in israel to serve , even to serve the lord their god. and all his days they departed not from following the lord god of their fathers : to say , that this was done in hypocrisie , and bare outward compliance , is to speak without book ; and if the reason of so severe punishments had been their hypocrisie , that ought to have been mentioned ; but not onely here , but afterwards it is said , that the reason of gods destroying judah , was for the sins of manasseh ; viz. his idolatries and murther , which it is said , the lord will not pardon . and if he would not pardon , then he did punish for those sins , not barely as the occasion , but as the meritorious cause of that punishment . what shall we say then ? did the people in josiah's time , deserve to be punished for the sins of manasseh , grandfather to josiah ? or was god so highly provoked with those sins , that although he did not punish manasseh himself upon his repentance , yet he would let the world see , how much he abhorred them , by punishing those sins upon the people afterwards ; although according to the usual proportion of sins and punishments , the sins of the people in that age did not exceed the sins of other ages , as much as the punishments they suffered , did exceed the punishments of other ages : which is necessary according to crellius his doctrine ; for if god never punisheth by occasion of their fathers sins , the children beyond the desert of their own sins ; then it is necessary , that where judgements are remarkably greater , the sins must be so too ; the contrary to which is plain in this instance . by which we see , that it is not contrary to the justice of god in punishing , to make the punishment of some on the account of others sins , to exceed the desert of their own ; measuring that desert , not in a way common to all sin , but when the desert of some sins is compared with the desert of others : for it is of this latter we speak of , and of the method which god useth in punishing sin here , for the demonstration of his hatred of it , according to which the greatest punishments must suppose the greatest sins , either of their own , or others which they suffer for . but hath not god declared , that he will never punish the children for the fathers sins ? for the soul that sinneth it shall dye ; the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father , &c. to which i answer , these words are to be considered , as an answer to a complaint made by the jews , soon after their going into captivity , which they imputed to gods severity in punishing them for their fathers sins . now the complaint was either true or false ; if it were true , then though this was looked upon as great severity in god , yet it was no injustice in him ; for though god may act severely , he cannot act unjustly : if it was false , then the answer had been an absolute denial of it , as a thing repugnant to the justice of god. which we do not find here , but that god saith unto them , v. . ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in israel : if the thing had been plainly unjust , which they complained of , he would have told them , they never had occasion to use it . but we finde the prophets telling them before hand , that they should suffer for their fathers sins , jerem. . , . where he threatens them with destruction and banishment , because of the sins of manasseh in jerusalem ; and in the beginning of the captivity they complain of this , lam. . . our fathers have sinned , and are not , and we have born their iniquities . and jerem. . . god saith by the prophet , that he had watched over them to pluck up , and to pull down , and to destroy , and to afflict : but that he would watch over them to build , and to plant , and in those days they shall say no more , the fathers have eaten sowre grapes , and the childrens teeth are set on edge ; but every one shall dye for his own iniquity . which place is exactly parallel with this in ezekiel , and gives us a clear account of it , which is , that now indeed god had dealt very severely with them , by making them suffer beyond , what in the ordinary course of his providence their sins had deserved ; but he punished them not onely for their own sins , but the sins of their fathers : but lest they should think , they should be utterly consumed for their iniquities , and be no longer a people enjoying the land which god had promised them , he tells them by the prophets , though they had smarted so much , by reason of their fathers sins , this severity should not always continue upon them ; but that god would visit them with his kindeness again , and would plant them in their own land , then they should see no reason to continue this proverb among them ; for they would then find , though their fathers had eaten sowre grapes , their teeth should not be always set on edge with it . and if we observe it , the occasion of the proverb , was concerning the land of israel , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 super terra israel , as the chaldee paraphrast renders it more agreeable to the hebrew , than the other versions do . so that the land of israel was the occasion of the proverb , by their being banished out of it for their fathers sins : now god tells them , they should have no more occasion to use this proverb concerning the land of israel ; for they , notwithstanding their fathers sins , should return into their own land. and even during the continuance of their captivity , they should not undergo such great severities for the future , but they should find their condition much more tolerable than they imagined ; onely , if any were guilty of greater sins than others , they should themselves suffer for their own faults , but he would not punish the whole nation for them , or their own posterity . this i take to be the genuine meaning of this place ; and i the rather embrace it , because i find such insuperable difficulties in other interpretations that are given of it : for to say as our adversaries do , that what god saith , should not be for the future , was repugnant to his nature and justice ever to do , is to charge god plainly with injustice in what he had done : for the prophets told them they should suffer for the sins of their fathers : which sufferings were the ground of their complaint now , and the answer here given must relate to the occasion of the complaint ; for god saith , they should not have occasion to use that proverb : wherein is implied , they should not have the same reason to complain which they had then . i demand then , do not these words imply , that god would not do for the future with them , what he had done before ? if not , the proper answer had been a plain denial , and not a promise for the future he would not ; if they do , then either god properly punished them for the sins of their fathers , and then god must be unjust in doing so ; or it was just with god to do it , and so this place instead of overthrowing will prove , that some may be justly punished , beyond the desert of their own sins : or else , god did onely take occasion by their fathers sins , to punish them according to the desert of their own iniquities : but then they had no cause to complain , that they were punished for any more than their own iniquities ; and withal , then god doth oblige himself by his promise here , never to punish men for the future by the occasion of others sins : which is not onely contrary to their own doctrine , but to what is plainly seen afterwards in the punishment of the jew● for their fathers sins , mentioned by our saviour after this : and if this be a certain rule of equity which god here saith , that he would never vary from , then the punishing of some on the occasion of others sins , would be as unjust , as our adversaries suppose the punishing any beyond the desert of their own sins to be . but is it not implyed , that gods ways would be unequal , if he ever did otherwise than he there said he would do ? no , it is not , if by equal he meant just , for his ways never were , or can be so unequal ; but here if it be taken with a respect to the main dispute of the chapter , no more is implied in them , but that they judged amiss concerning gods actions , and that they were just , when they thought them not to be so : or ifat least , they thought his ways very severe , though just , god by remitting of this severity , would shew that he was not onely just , but kinde ; and so they would finde his ways equal , that is , always agreeable to themselves , and ending in kindeness to them , though they hitherto were so severe towards them in their banishment and captivity . or if they be taken with a respect to the immediate occasion of them both , ezek. . — . they do not relate to this dispute about childrens suffering for their fathers sins ; but to another , which was concerning a righteous mans sinning and dying in his sins , and a wicked mans repenting , and living in his righteousness ; which were directly contrary to the common opinion of the jews to this day , which is , that god will judge men according to the greatest number of their actions good or bad : as appears by maimonides and others . now they thought it a very hard case , for a man who had been righteous the far greatest part of his time , if he did at last commit iniquity , that his former righteousness should signifie nothing , but he must dye in his iniquity . to this therefore god answers , that it was only the inequality of their own ways , which made them think gods ways in doing so unequal . this then doth not make it unequal , for god either to punish men , upon the occasion , or by the desert of other mens sins , supposing such a conjunction between them , as there is in the same body of people , to those who went before them . and crellius himself grants , that socinus never intended to prove , that one mans suffering for anothers sins was unjust in it self , from this place : no , not though we take it in the strictest sense , for one suffering in the stead of another . having thus far cleared , how far it is agreeable to gods justice , to punish any persons either by reason of his dominion , or the conjunction of persons , for the sins of others , and consequently whether any punishment may be undergone justly beyond the proper desert of their own sins , i now return to the consent of mankinde in it , on supposition either of a neer conjunction , or a valid consent which must make up the want of dominion in men without it . and the question still proceeds upon the supposition of those things , that there be a proper dominion in men over that which they part with for others sakes , and that they do it by their free consent ; and then we justifie it not to be repugnant to the principles of reason and justice for any to suffer beyond the desert of their own actions . and crellius his saying , that such a punishment is true punishment , but not just ; is no answer at all to the consent of nations that it is so . and therefore finding this answer insufficient ; he relyes upon another , viz. that it was never receiv'd by the consent of nations , that one man should suffer in the stead of another , so as the guilty should be freed by the others suffering . for he saith , neither socinus nor he do deny that one man may be punished for anothers sins ; but that which they deny is , that ever the innocent were punished so as the guilty were freed by it , and so he answers , in the case of hostages and sureties , their punishment did never excuse the offenders themselves . and to this purpose he saith , socinus his argument doth hold good , that though one mans money may become anothers , yet one mans sufferings cannot become anothers : for , saith he , if it could , then it would be all one who suffered , as it is who pays the money due : and then the offender must be presently released , as the debtor is upon payment of the debt . this is the substance of what is said by him upon this argument . to which i reply ; . that this gives up the matter in dispute at present between us ; for the present question is , whether it be unjust for any one to suffer beyond the desert of his own actions ? yes , saith crellius , it is , in case he suffers so , as that the guilty be freed by his sufferings . but we are not enquiring , whether it be just for another person to be freed for a mans suffering for him ? but whether it be just for that man to suffer by his own consent , more than his own actions , without that consent deserved ? the release of another person by virtue of his sufferings , is a matter of another consideration . doth the freeing or not freeing of another by suffering , add any thing to the desert of suffering ? he that being wholly innocent , and doth suffer on the account of anothers fault , doth he not suffer as undeservedly , though another be not freed , as if he were ? as in the case of hostages or sureties , doth it make them at all the more guilty , because the persons they are concerned for , will be punished notwithstanding , if they come under the power of those who exacted the punishment upon them , who suffered for them ? nay , is not their desert of punishment so much the less , in as much as the guilty are still bound to answer for their own offences ? if we could suppose the guilty to be freed by the others sufferings , it would be by supposing their guilt more fully translated upon those who suffer , and consequently , a greater obligation to punishment following that guilt . from whence it follows , that if it be just to punish , when the person is not delivered from whom the other suffers , it is more just when he is ; for the translation of the penalty is much less in the former case , than in the latter ; and what is just upon less grounds of punishment , must be more just upon greater . i look on this therefore but as a shift of crellius , hoping thereby to avoid the consent of mankind in one mans suffering for another , without attending to the main argument he was upon ; viz. the justice of one person suffering for another . . it is a very unreasonable thing , to make an action unjust for that , which of it self is acknowledged by our adversaries to be very just ; viz. the pardoning the offenders themselves . if it were just to suffer , if the other were not pardoned , and it were just to pardon , whether the other were punished or no , how comes this suffering to be unjust , meerly by the others being pardoned by it : nay , is it not rather an argument , that those sufferings are the most just , which do so fully answer all the ends of punishments ; that there is then no necessity that the offender should suffer ; but that the supreme governor having obtained the ends of government , by the suffering of one for the rest , declares himself so well pleased with it , that he is willing to pardon the offenders themselves . . many of those persons who have had their sins punished in others , have themselves escaped the punishment due to the desert of their sins . as is plain in the case of ahab , whose punishment was not so great as his sins deserved , because the full punishment of them was reserved to his posterity . if it be said , as it is by crellius , that ahab was not wholly freed , his life being taken away , for his own sins : that gives no sufficient answer ; for if some part of the punishment was deferr'd , that part he was delivered from ; and the same reason in this case will hold for the whole as the part . as is plain in the case of manasseh , and several others , the guilt of whose sins were punished on their posterity , themselves escaping it . . our adversaries confess , that in some cases it is lawful and just for some to suffer , with a design that others may be freed by their suffering for them . thus they assert , that one christian , not onely may , but ought to lay down his life for another , if there be any danger of his denying the truth , or he judges him far more useful and considerable than himself : so likewise a son for his father , one brother for another , or a friend , or any , whose life he thinks more useful than his own . now i ask , whether a man can be bound to a thing that is in its own nature unjust ? if not , as it is plain he cannot , then such an obligation of one man to suffer for the delivery of another cannot be unjust , and consequently the suffering it self cannot be so . but crellius saith , the injustice in this case lyes wholly upon the magistrate who admits it : but i ask wherefore is it unjust in the magistrate to admit it ? is it because the thing is in it self unjust ? if so , there can be no obligation to do it ; and it would be as great a sin to undergo it , as in the magistrate to permit it ; but if it be just in it self , we have obtained what we contend for ; viz. that it may be just for a man to suffer beyond the desert of his own actions ; for he that layes down his life for his brethren , doth not deserve by his own actions that very punishment which he undergoes . and if the thing be in it self just , how comes it to be unjust in him that permits it ? . the reason why among men the offenders themselves are punished , is because those were not the terms , upon which the persons suffered . for if they had suffer'd upon these terms that the other might be freed , and their suffering was admitted of by the magistrate on that consideration , then in all reason and justice the offenders ought to be freed on the account of the others suffering for them . but among men the chief reason of the obligation to punishment of one man for another , is not , that the other might be freed , but that there may be security given to the publick , that the offender shall be punish●… and the reason of the sureties suffering is not to deliver the offender , but to satisfie the law , by declaring that all care is taken that the offender should be punished , when in case of his escape , the surety suffers for him . but it is quite another thing when the person suffers purposely that others might be freed by his suffering ; for then in case the suffering be admitted , the release of the other is not only not unjust , but becomes due to him that suffer'd , on his own terms . not as though it follow'd ipso facto as crellius fansies , but the manner of release doth depend upon the terms which he who suffer'd for them , shall make in order to it . for upon this suffering of one for another upon such terms , the immediate consequent of the suffering is not the actual discharge but the right to it which he hath purchased ; and which he may dispense upon what terms he shall judge most for his honour . . although one persons sufferings cannot become anothers so as one mans money may ; yet one mans sufferings may be a sufficient consideration on which a benefit may accrue to another . for to that end a donation , or such a transferring right from one to another as is in money , is not necessary , but the acceptation which it hath from him who hath the power to pardon . if he declare that he is so well pleased with the sufferings of one for another , that in consideration of them , he will pardon those from whom he suffer'd ; where lies the impossibility or unreasonableness of the thing ? for crellius grants , that rewards may be given to others than the persons who did the actions in consideration of those actions ; and why may not the sufferings of one for others , being purposely undertaken for this end , be available for the pardon of those whom he suffer'd for ? for a man can no more transferre the right of his good actions , than of his sufferings . from all which it follows , that one person may by his own consent , and being admitted thereto by him to whom the right of punishing belongs , suffer justly ; though it be beyond the desert of his own actions ; and the guilty may be pardoned on the account of his sufferings . which was the first thing we designed to prove from crellius , in order to the overthrowing his own hypothesis . for it being confessed by him that such sufferings have all that belongs to the nature of punishments , and since god hath justly punished some for the sins which they have not committed ; since all nations have allowed it just for one man by his own consent to suffer for another ; since it cannot be unjust for the offender to be released by anothers sufferings , if he were admitted to suffer for that end , it evidently follows , contrary to crellius his main principle , that a person may be justly punished beyond the desert of his own actions : and so that first argument of crellius cannot hold , that one man cannot by his own consent suffer for another , because no man can deserve anothers punishment , and no punishment is just but what is deserved . his second argument from the nature of anger and revenge hath been already answered in the first discourse about the nature and ends of punishments , and his third argument , that one mans punishment cannot become anothers , immediately before . and so we have finished our first consideration of the sufferings of christ in general , as a punishment of our sins , which we have shewed to be agreeable both to scripture and reason . chap. iv. the death of christ considered as an expiatory sacrifice for sin . what the expiation of sin was by the sacrifices under the law ; twofold , civil and ritual . the promises made to the jews under the law of moses , respected them as a people , and therefore must be temporal . the typical nature of sacrifices asserted . a substitution in the expiatory sacrifices under the law , proved from lev. . . and the concession of crellius about the signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 joyned with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . levit. . . explained . the expiation of uncertain murther proves a substitution . a substitution of christ in our room proved , from christs being said to dye for us ; the importance of that phrase considered . in what sense a surrogation of christ in our room is asserted by us . our redemption by christ proves a substitution . of the true notion of redemption : that explained , and proved against socinus and crellius . no necessity of paying the price to him that detains captive , where the captivity is not by force , but by sentence of law. christs death a proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : and therefore the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 attributed to it , cannot be taken for meer deliverance . we come now to consider the death of christ , as an expiatory sacrifice for the sins of mankinde : which is as much denied by our adversaries , as that it was a punishment for our sins . for though they do not deny , that christ as a priest did offer up a sacrifice of expiation for the sins of men ; yet they utterly deny , that this was performed on earth , or that the expiation of sins did respect god , but onely us ; or , that the death of christ , had any proper efficacy towards the expiation of sin , any further than as it comprehends in it all the consequences of his death , by a strange catechresis . i shall now therefore prove , that all things which do belong to a proper expiatory sacrifice , do agree to the death of christ. there are three things especially considerable in it : . a substitution in the place of the offenders . . an oblation of it to god. . an expiation of sin consequent upon it . now these three , i shall make appear to agree fully to the death of christ for us . . a substitution in the place of the osfenders . that we are to prove , was designed in the expiatory sacrifices under the law , and that christ in his death for us , was substituted in our place . . that in the expiatory sacrifices under the law , there was a substitution of them in the place of the offenders . this our adversaries are not willing to yield us , because of the correspondency which is so plain in the epistle to the hebrews , between those sacrifices , and that which was offered up by christ. we now speak onely of those sacrifices , which we are sure were appointed of old for the expiation of sin , by god himself . as to which the great rule assigned by the apostle was , that without shedding of blood there was no remission . if we yield crellius what he so often urgeth ; viz. that these words are to be understood , of what was done under the law : they will not be the less serviceable to our purpose ; for thereby it will appear , that the means of expiation lay in the shedding of blood : which shews , that the very mactation of the beast to be sacrificed , was designed in order to the expiation of sin . to an inquisitive person , the reason of the slaying such multitudes of beasts in the sacrifices appointed by god himself among the jews , would have appeared far less evident than now it doth , since the author of the epistle to the hebrews hath given us so full an account of them . for it had been very unreasonable to have thought , that they had been meerly instituted out of compliance with the customs of other nations , since the whole design of their religion , was to separate them from them : and on such a supposition the great design of the epistle to the hebrews signifies very little ; which doth far more explain to us the nature and tendency of all the sacrifices in use among them , that had any respect to the expiation of sins , than all the customs of the egyptians , or the commentaries of the latter jews . but i intend not now to discourse at large , upon this subject of sacrifices , either as to the nature and institution of them in general , or with a particular respect to the sacrifice of christ , since a learned person of our church , hath already undertaken crellius upon this argument , and we hope ere long will oblige the world with the benefit of his pains . i shall therefore onely insist on those things which are necessary for our purpose , in order to the clearing the substitution of christ in our stead , for the expiation of our sins by his death ; and this we say was represented in the expiatory sacrifices , which were instituted among the jews . if we yield crellius what he after socinus contends for ; viz. that the sacrifice of christ was onely represented in the ●ublick and solemn expiatory sacrifices for the ●eople , and especially those on the day of atone●ent : we may have enough from them to indicate all that we assert , concerning ●he expiatory sacrifice of the blood of christ. for that those were designed by way of ●…bstitution in the place of the offenders , will ●…pear from the circumstances and reason ●…f their institution : but before we come 〈◊〉 that , it will be necessary to shew what ●…at expiation was , which the sacrifices ●…der the law were designed for ; the ●…ot understanding of which , gives a greater ●…rce to our adversaries arguments , than ●therwise they would have . for while ●…en assert , that the expiation was wholly ●…pical , and of the same nature with that ●…piation which is really obtained by the ●…eath of christ , they easily prove , that all ●…e expiation then , was onely declarative , and ●…d no more depend on the sacrifices offered , ●…an on a condition required by god , the neg●…t of which would be an act of disobedience in ●…em ; and by this means it could represent , ●…y they , no more than such an expiation to by christ ; viz. gods declaring that sins ●…e expiated by him , on the performance of such condition required in order thereto , as laying down his life was . but we assert anoth●… kind of expiation of sin , by virtue of t●… sacrifice being slain and offered ; wh●… was real , and depended upon the sacrifi●… and this was twofold , a civil , and a ri●… expiation , according to the double 〈◊〉 pacity in which the people of the i●… may be considered , either as members o●… society , subsisting by a body of l●… which according to the strictest sanction 〈…〉 it , makes death the penalty of disobed●… ence , deut. . . but by the will of 〈◊〉 legislator , did admit of a relaxation 〈◊〉 many cases , allowed by himself ; in whi●… he declares , that the death of the be●… designed for a sacrifice should be 〈…〉 cepted , instead of the death of the offe●… der ; and so the offence should be fu●… expiated , as to the execution of the pe●… law upon him . and thus far , i freely 〈◊〉 mit what grotius asserts upon this subje●… and do yield that no other offence co●… be expiated in this manner , but such whi●… god himself did particularly declare sho●… be so . and therefore no sin which 〈◊〉 to be punished by cutting off , was to 〈◊〉 expiated by sacrifice ; as wilful idola●… murther , &c. which it is impossible f●… those to give an account of , who make●… expiation wholly typical ; for why th●… should not the greatest sins much rather ●…ave had sacrifices of expiation appointed ●…or them : because the consciences of ●…en would be more solicitous for the ●…ardon of greater than lesser sins ; and the ●…lood of christ represented by them , was designed for the expiation of all . from whence it is evident , that it was not a meer typical expiation ; but it did relate ●o the civil constitution among them . but ●esides this , we are to consider the people with a respect to that mode of divine worship which was among them ; by reason of which , the people were to be purified from the legal impurities which they contracted , which hindred them from joyning with others in the publick worship of god , and many sacrifices were appointed purposely for the expiating this legal guilt , as particularly , the ashes of the red heifer , numb . . . which is there call'd a purification for sin . and the apostle puts the blood of bulls and of goats , and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling the unclean , together ; and the effect of both of them , he saith , was to sanctifie to the purifying of the flesh ; which implyes , that there was some proper and immediate effect of these sacrifices upon the people at that time ; though infinitely short of the effect of the blood of christ upon the conscien●… of men . by which it is plain , the apost●… doth not speak of the same kind of expi●…tion in those sacrifices , which was in the s●crifice of christ , and that the one w●… barely typical of the other ; but of a di●ferent kind of expiation , as far as purifying the flesh is from purging the conscien●… but we do not deny , that the whole dispensation was typical , and that the law 〈◊〉 a shadow of good things to come , and not 〈◊〉 very image of the things , i. e. a dark a●● obscure representation , and not the perfect resemblance of them . there are tw● things which the apostle asserts conce●●ing the sacrifices of the law : first , th●… they had an effect upon the bodies of m●… which he calls purifying the flesh ; the oth●… is , that they had no power to expiate fo● the sins of the soul , considered with a respect to the punishment of another lif● which he calls purging the conscience fr●● dead works ; and therefore he saith , that 〈◊〉 the gifts and sacrifices under the law , co●… not make him that did the service perfect , 〈◊〉 pertaining to the conscience , and that it 〈◊〉 impossible that the blood of bulls and go●● should take away sin . so that the prop●… expiation which was made by them , 〈◊〉 civil and ritual , relating either to corporal punishment , or to legal uncleanness , ●rom whence the apostle well proves the ●ecessity of a higher sacrifice to make ●xpiation for sins , as pertaining to the con●●ience : but that expiation among the jews●id ●id relate to that polity which was esta●lished among them , as they were a peo●le under the government of a body of ●aws distinct from the rest of the world . ●nd they being consider'd as such , it is ●ain to enquire , whether they had only ●●mporal or eternal promises ; for it was im●ossible they should have any other than ●emporal , unless we imagine , that god●ould ●ould own them for a distinct people in ●●other world as he did in this . for what ●romises relate to a people as such , must ●onsider them as a people , and in that ●●pacity they must the blessings of a socie●… , viz. peace , plenty , number of people , ●…ngth of dayes , &c. but we are far from ●enying that the general principles of ●eligion did remain among them , viz. that ●…re is a god , and a rewarder of them that ●…k him ; and all the promises god made 〈◊〉 the patriarchs , did continue in force as another countrey , and were continually ●…proved by the prophetical instructions ●…ong them . but we are now speaking what did respect the people in general , by vertue of that law which was giv● them by moses , and in that respect 〈◊〉 punishment of faults being either death 〈◊〉 exclusion from the publick worship , t●… expiation of them , was taking away t●… obligation to either of these , whi●● was the guilt of them in that consider●tion . but doth not this take away the typi●… nature of these sacrifices ? no , but it mu●… rather establisheth it . for as socinus argues , if the expiation was only typi●… there must be something in the typ●… correspondent to that which is typif●… by it . as the brazen serpent typifi●… christ , and the benefit which was to co●… by him , because as many as looked up●… it were healed . and noahs ark is s●… to be a type of baptism , because as ●…ny as enter'd into that were saved fro● the deluge . so corinth . . the apost●… saith , that those things happen'd to th●… in types , v. . because the events whi●… happen'd to them , did represent tho●… which would fall upon disobedient ch●●stians . so that to make good the the notion of a type , we must assert an exp●…tion that was real then , and agreeable 〈◊〉 that dispensation , which doth repres●… an expiation of a far higher nature , whi●… was to be by the sacrifice of the blood of christ. which being premised , i now come to ●rove , that there was a substitution designed of the beast to be slain and sacrificed 〈◊〉 stead of the offenders themselves . which will appear from leviticus . . for the life of the flesh is in the blood , and i have given it to you upon the altar , to make an atonement for your souls ; for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. the utmost that crellius would have meant by this place is , that there is a double reason assigned of the prohibition of eating blood , viz. that the life was in the blood , and that the blood was designed for expiation ; but he makes these wholly independent upon each other . but we say , that the proper reason assigned against the eating of the blood , is that which is elswhere given , when this precept is mention'd , viz. that the blood was the life , as we may see gen. . . levit. . . but to confirm the reason given , that the blood was the life ; he addes , that god had given them that upon the altar for an atonement for their souls ; so the arabick version renders it , and therefore have i given it you upon the altar , viz. because the blood is the life . and hereby a sufficient reason is given , why god did make choice of the blood for atonement , for that is expre●… in the latter clause , for it is the blood 〈◊〉 maketh an atonement for the soul ; w●… should this be mention'd here , if no 〈◊〉 were intended but to give barely anoth●… reason why they should not eat the bloo● what force is there more in this cla●… to that end , than in the foregoing ? 〈◊〉 therein god had said , that he had given them for an atonement . if no more h●… been intended , but the bare prohibit●… of common use of the blood , on the 〈◊〉 count of its being consecrated to sac●… use , it had been enough to have said , th●… the blood was holy unto the lord , as 〈◊〉 is in the other instances mention'd b●… crellius , of the holy oyntment and perfu●… for no other reason is there given , why 〈◊〉 should not be profaned to common 〈◊〉 but that it should be holy for the lord ; therefore the blood had been forbidd●… upon that account , there had been no ●…cessity at all of adding , that the blood 〈◊〉 it that made atonement for the soul : whi●… gives no peculiar reason why they sho●… not eat the blood , beyond that of b●… consecration of it to a sacred use ; but we consider it as respecting the first claus● viz. for the life of the flesh is in the bloo● then there is a particular reason why th●… blood should be for atonement , viz. because the life was in that ; and therefore when the blood was offer'd , the life of the beast was supposed to be given instead of the life of the offender . according to that of ovid , hanc animam vobis pro meliore damus . this will be yet made clearer by another instance produced by crellius to explain this , which is the forbidding the eating of fat , which , saith he , is joyned with this of blood , levit. . . it shall be a perpetual statute for your generations , throughout all your dwellings , that ye eat neither fat , nor blood . to the same purpose , levit. . , , . now no other reason is given of the prohibition of the fat , but this , all the fat is the lords . which was enough to keep them from eating it ; but we see here in the case of blood somewhat further is assigned , viz. that it was the life ; and therefore was the most proper for expiation , the life of the beast being substituted in the place of the offenders . which was therefore call'd animalis hostia among the romans , as grotius observes upon this place , and was distinguished from those whose entrails were observed ; for in those sacrifices as servius saith , sola anima deo sacratur , the main of the sacrifice lay in shedding of the blood , which was call'd the soul ; and so it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this place . from whence it appears that such a sacrifice was properly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the same word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used , both relating to the blood and the soul , that is expiated by it : and the lxx . do accordingly render it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and in the last clause , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . from whence eusebius calls these sacrifices of living creatures , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and afterwards saith they were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and crellius elsewhere grants , that where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is joyned with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it doth imply , that one doth undergo the punishment which another was to have undergone , which is all we mean by substitution , it being done in the place of another . from whence it follows , that the sacrifices under the law being said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth necessarily inferr a substitution of them in the place of the offenders . and from hence may be understood , what is meant by the goat of the sin-offering , bearing the iniquity of the congregation , to make atonement for them before the lord , levit. . . for crellius his saying , that bearing is as much as taking away , or declaring that they are taken away , hath been already disproved : and his other answer hath as little weight in it ; viz. that it is not said , that the sacrifice did bear their iniquities , but the priest : for , . the chaldee paraphrast , and the syriack version , understand it wholly of the sacrifice . . socinus himself grants , that if it were said , the priest did expiate by the sacrifices , it were all one as if it were said , that the sacrifices themselves did expiate ; because the expiation of the priest was by the sacrifice . thus it is plain in the case of uncertain murther , mentioned deut. . from the first to the tenth ; if a murther were committed in the land , and the person not known who did it , a heifer was to have her head cut off by the elders of the next city , and by this means they were to put away the guilt of innocent blood from among them : the reason of which was , because god had said before , that blood defiled the land , and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein , but by the blood of him that shed it . from whence it appears , that upon the shedding of blood , there was a guilt contracted upon the whole land wherein it was shed , and in case the murtherer was not found to expiate that guilt by his own blood , then it was to be done by the cutting off the head of a heifer instead of him : in which case , the death of the heifer was to do as much towards the expiating the land , as the death of the murtherer if he had been found : and we do not contend , that this was designed to expiate the murtherers guilt ( which is the objection of crellius against this instance ) but that a substitution here was appointed by god himself , for the expiation of the people : for what crellius adds , that the people did not deserve punishment , and therefore needed no expiation ; it is a flat contradiction to the text : for the prayer appointed in that case is , be merciful , o lord , unto thy people israel , whom thou hast redeemed , and lay not innocent blood unto thy people israels charge ; and the blood shall be expiated ; for the same word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used here , which is in the other places where expiation is spoken of . so that here must be some guilt supposed , where there was to be an expiation , and this expiation was performed by the substitution of a sacrifice in the place of the offender . which may be enough at present to shew , that a substitution was admitted by the law , of a sacrifice instead of the offender , in order to the expiation of guilt ; but whether the offender himself was to be freed by that sacrifice , depends upon the terms on which the sacrifice was offered ; for we say still , that so much guilt was expiated , as the sacrifice was designed to expiate ; if the sacrifice was designed to expiate the guilt of the offender , his sin was expiated by it ; if not his , in case no sacrifice was allowed by the law , as in that of murther , then the guilt which lay upon the land was expiated , although the offender himself were never discovered . i now come to prove , that in correspondency to such a substitution of the sacrifices for sin under the law , christ was substituted in our room for the expiation of our guilt ; and that from his being said to dye for us , and his death being call'd a price of redemption for us . . from christs being said to dye for us . by s. peter , for christ hath also once suffered for sins , the just for the unjust ; by whom he is also said , to suffer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for us , and , for us in the flesh : by s. paul , he is said to dye 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for all , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the ungodly , and to give himself 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a ransome for all , and , to taste death 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for every man : by caiaphas , speaking by inspiration , he is said to dye 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the people . so christ himself instituting his last supper said , this is my body which was given , and my blood which was shed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for you ; and before he had said , that the son of man came to give his life 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a ransome for many . we are now to consider , what arts our adversaries have made use of to pervert the meaning of these places , so as not to imply a substitution of christ in our room : . they say , that all these phrases do imply no more , than a final cause ; viz. that christ died for the good of mankind ; for the apostle tells us , we are bound to lay down our lives for the brethren , and s. paul is said to suffer for the church . to which i answer ; . this doth not at all destroy that which we now plead for ; viz. that these phrases do imply a substitution of christ in our room : for when we are bid to lay down our lives for our brethren , a substitution is implied therein ; and supposing that dying for another , doth signifie dying for some benefit to come to him , yet what doth this hinder substitution , unless it be proved , that one cannot obtain any benefit for another , by being substituted in his room . nay , it is observable , that although we produce so many places of scripture , implying such a substitution , they do not offer to produce one that is inconsistent with christs suffering in our stead ; all that they say is , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not always signifie so , which we never said it did , who say , that christ suffered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not instead of our sins , but by reason of them ; but we assert , that when one person is said to dye for others , as in the places mentioned , no other sense can be so proper and agreeable , as dying in the stead of the other . . socinus himself grants , that there is a peculiarity implied in those phrases , when attributed to christ , above what they have when attributed to any other . and therefore he saith , it cannot be properly said , that one brother dyes for another , or that paul suffer'd for the colossians , or for the church , as christ may truly and properly be said to suffer and to dye for us . and from hence , saith he , s. paul saith , was paul crucified for you ? implying thereby , that there never was , or could be any , who truely and properly could be said to dye for men but christ alone . how unreasonable then is it , from the use of a particle as applyed to others , to inferr , that it ought to be so understood , when applyed to christ ? when a peculiarity is acknowledged in the death of christ for us , more than ever was or could be in one mans dying for another . . it is not the bare force of the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that we insist upon ; but that a substitution could not be more properly expressed , than it is in scripture , by this and other particles , for not only 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 too : which socinus saith , although it may signifie something else besides in the stead of another , yet in such places , where it is spoken of a ransom , or price , it signifies the payment of something which was owing before , as mat. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so he acknowledges , that where redemption is spoken of , there 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth imply a commutation , because the price is given , and the person received , which , he saith , holds in christ only metaphorical y : for the redemption according to him being only metaphorical , the commutation must be supposed to be so too . and this mow leads us to the larger answer of crellius upon this argument . wherein we shall consider , what he yields , what he denyes , and upon what reasons . . he yields , and so he saith , doth socinus very freely , a commutation : but it is necessary that we should throughly understand what he means by it : to that end he tells us , that they acknowledge a twofold commutation ; one of the person suffering , the kind of suffering being changed , not actually but intentionally , because we were not actually freed by christ dying for us , but only christ dyed for that end , that we might be freed . and this commutation , he saith , that socinus doth not deny to be implyed in the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the places where christ is said to dye for us . another commutation , which he acknowledges , is , that which is between a price , and the thing or person which is bought or redeemed by it ; where the price is paid , and the thing or person is received upon it . and this kind of commutation , he saith , is to be understood in the places where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is mention'd ; which price , he saith , by accident may be a person ; and because the person is not presently delivered , he therefore saith , that the commutation is rather imperfect than metaphorical ; and although , he saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not of it self imply a commutation , yet he grants , that the circumstances of the places do imply it . . he denyes , that there is any proper surrogation in christs dying for us , which , he saith , is such a commutation of persons , that the substituted person is in all respects to be in the same place and state wherein the other was ; and if it refers to sufferings ; then it is when one suffers the very same which the other was to suffer , he being immediately delivered by the others sufferings . and against this kind of surrogation , crellius needed not to have produced any reasons ; for grotius never asserted it ; neither do we say , that christ suffer'd eternal death for us , or that we were immediately freed by his sufferings . but that which grotius asserts that he meant by substitution was this , that unless christ had ayed for us , we must have dyed our selves , and because christ hath dyed , we shall not dye eternally . but if this be all , saith crellius , he meant by it , we grant the whole thing , and he complains of it as an injury for any to think otherwise of them . if so , they cannot deny but that there was a sufficient capacity in the death of christ to be made an expiatory sacrifice for the sins of the world . but notwithstanding all these fair words , crellius means no more than socinus did ; and though he would allow the words which grotius used , yet not in the sense he understood them in ; for crellius means no more by all this , but that the death of christ was an antecedent condition to the expiation of sins in heaven , grotius understands by them , that christ did expiate sins by becoming a sacrifice for them in his death . however , from hence it appears , that our adversaries can have no plea against the death of christs being an expiatory sacrifice ( from want of a substitution in our room ) since they profess themselves so willing to own such a substitution . but if they say , that there could be no proper substitution , because the death of christ was a bare condition , and no punishment , they then express their minds more freely ; and if these places be allowed to prove a substitution , i hope the former discourse will prove that it was by way of punishment . neither is it necessary , that the very same kinde of punishment be undergone in order to surrogation , but that it be sufficient in order to the accomplishing the end for which it was designed . for this kind of substitution being in order to the delivery of another by it , whatever is sufficient for that end , doth make a proper surrogation . for no more is necessary to the delivery of another person than the satisfying the ends of the law and government , and if that may be done by an aequivalent suffering , though not the same in all respects , then it may be a proper surrogation . if david had obtained his wish , that he had dyed himself for his son absolom , it had not been necessary in order to his sons escape , that he had hanged by the hair of his head , as his son did ; but his death , though in other circumstances , had been sufficient . and therefore , when the lawyers say , subrogatum , sapit naturam ejus in cujus locum subrogatur : covarruvias tells us , it is to be understood secundum primordialem naturam non secundum accidentalem ; from whence it appears , that all circumstances are not necessary to be the same in surrogation ; but that the nature of the punishment remain the same . thus christ dying for us , to deliver us from death , and the curse of the law , he underwent an accursed death for that end ; although not the very same which we were to have undergone , yet sufficient to shew , that he underwent the punishment of our iniquities in order to the delivering us from it . and if our adversaries will yield us this , we shall not much contend with them about the name of a proper surrogation . but in the matter of redemption , or where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used , crellius will by no means yield that there was a commutation of persons between christ and us , but all the commutation he will allow here is only a commutation between a thing , or a price , and a person . which he therefore asserts , that so there may be no necessity of christs undergoing the punishment of sin in order to redemption , because the price that is to be paid , is not supposed to undergo the condition of the person deliver'd by it . which will evidently appear to have no force at all , in case we can prove , that a proper redemption may be obtained by the punishment of one in the room of another ; for that punishment then comes to be the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or price of redemption ; and he that payes this , must be supposed to undergo punishment for it . so that the commutation being between the punishment of one , and the other redeemed by it , here is a proper commutation of persons implyed in the payment of the price . but hereby we may see that the great subtilty of our adversaries is designed on purpose to avoid the force of the places of scripture , which are so plain against them : for when these places where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are joyned together , are so clear for a substitution , that they cannot deny it ; then they say , by it is meant only a commutation of a price for a person ; but when the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is urged to prove a redemption purchased by christ , by the payment of a price for it , then they deny that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signifie a proper price , but is only taken metaphorically ; and yet if it be so taken , then there can be no force in what crellius saith , for a bare metaphorical price may be a real punishment . two things i shall then prove against crellius . . that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as applyed to christ , is to be taken in a proper sense . . that although it be taken in a proper sense , yet it doth not imply a bare commutation of a price and a person , but a substitution of one person in the room of another . both these will be cleared from the right stating the notion of redemption between our adversaries and us . for they will not by any means have any other proper notion of redemption but from captivity , and that by the payment of a price to him that did hold in captivity , and therefore because christ did not pay the price to the devil , there could be no proper sense either of the redemption , or the price which was payd for it . this is the main strength of all the arguments used by socinus and crellius , to enervate the force of those places of scripture which speak of our redemption by christ , and of the price which he payd in order to it . but how weak these exceptions are , will appear upon a true examination of the proper notion of redemption , which in its primary importance signifies no more , than the obtaining of one thing by another as a valuable consideration for it . thence redimere anciently among the latins signified barely to purchase by a valuable price , for the thing which they had a right to by it ; and sometimes to purchase that which a man hath sold before , thence the pactum redimendi in contracts : still in whatever sense it was used by the lawyers or others , the main regard was , to the consideration upon which the thing was obtained , thence redimere delatorem pecunia , h. e. eum à delatione deducere ; so redimere litem ; and redemptor litis was one that upon certain consideration took the whole charge of a suit upon himself : and those who undertook the farming of customs at certain rates , were call'd redemptores vectigalium , qui redempturis auxissent vectigalia , saith livy . and all those who undertook any publick work at a certain price , redemptores antiquitus dicebantur , saith festus and ulpian . from hence it was applyed to the delivery of any person from any inconvenience that he lay under , by something which was supposed a valuable consideration for it . and that it doth not only relate to captivity , but to any other great calamity , the freedom from which is obtained by what another suffers ; is apparent from these two remarkable expressions of cicero to this purpose . quam quidem ego ( saith he , speaking of the sharpness of the time ) a rep . meis privat is & domesticis incommodis libentissimè redemissem . and more expresly elsewhere , ego vitam omnium civium , statum orbis terrae , urbem hanc denique &c. quinque hominum amenti●… ac perditorum poena redemi . where it i● plain , that redemption is used for th● delivery of some by the punishment o● others ; not from meer captivity , but from a great calamity which they might have fallen into , without such a punishment of those persons . so vain is that assertion of socinus , redimere , nihil aliud proprie significat , quam eum captivum e manibus illius , qui eum detinet , pretio illi dato liberare . and yet supposing we should grant that redemption as used in sacred authors doth properly relate to captivity , there is no necessity at all of that which our adversaries contend so earnestly for , viz. that the price must be payd to him that detains captive . for we may very easily conceive a double sort of captivity , from whence a redemption may be obtained ; the one by force , when a captive is detained purposely for advantage to be made by his redemption ; and the other in a judicial manner , when the law condemns a person to captivity , and the thing designed by the law is not a meer price , but satisfaction to be made to the law , upon which a redemption may be obtained ; now in the former case it is necessary , that the price be paid to the person who detains , because the reason of his detaining , was the expectation of the price to be paid ; but in the latter , the detainer is meerly the instrument for execution of the law , and the price of redemption is not to be paid to him ; but to those who are most concerned in the honour of the law. but crellius objects , that the price can never be said to be paid to god , because our redemption is attributed to god as the author of it , and because we are said to be redeemed for his use and service , now , saith he , the price can never be paid to him for whose service the person is redeemed . but all this depends upon the former mistake , as though we spake all this while of such a redemption , as that is of a captive by force ; in whom the detainer is no further concerned , than for the advantage to be made by him ; and in that case the price must be paid to him who detains , because it would otherwise be unsuccessfull for his deliverance : but in case of captivity by law , as the effect of disobedience , the magistrate who is concerned in the life of the person , and his future obedience , may himself take care that satisfaction may be given to the law for his redemption , in order to his future service ableness . from hence we see both that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is proper in this case of our redemption , and that it is not a meer commutation of a price for a person , but a commutation of one persons suffering for others , which suffering being a punishment in order to satisfaction , is a valuable consideration , and therefore a price for the redemption of others by it . which price in this sense doth imply a proper substitution ; which was the thing to be proved . which was the first thing to be made good concerning the death of christ being a sacrifice for sin , viz. that there was a substitution of christ in our stead as of the sacrifices of old under the law ; and in this sense the death of christ was a proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or price of redemption for us . nothing then can be more vain , than the way of our adversaries , to take away the force of all this , because 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is sometimes taken for a meer deliverance without any price , which we deny not ; but the main force of our argument is from the importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , where the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is mention'd ; and then we say that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when applyed to sins , signifies expiation , ( as heb. . . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ) but when applyed to persons , it signifies the deliverance purchased by the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is not to be consider'd as a bare price , or a thing given , but as a thing undergone in order to that deliverance : and is therefore not only call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 too , which crellius confesseth doth imply a commutation , and we have shewed , doth prove a substitution of christ in our place . chap. v. the notion of a sacrifice belongs to the death of christ , because of the oblation made therein to god. crellius his sense of christs oblation proposed . against him it is proved , that the priestly office of christ had a primary respect to god , and not to us . expiatory sacrifices did divert the wrath of god. christ not a bare metaphorical high-priest . crellius destroyes the priesthood of christ by confounding it with the exercise of his regal power . no proper expiation of sin belongs to christ in heaven , if crellius his doctrine be true . ephes. . . proves the death of christ an expiatory sacrifice , and an oblation to god. the phrase of a sweet-smelling savour , belongs to expiatory sacrifices ; crellius his gross notion of it . his mistakes about the kinds of sacrifices . burnt-offerings were expiatory sacrifices both before and under the law. a new distribution of sacrifices proposed . what influence the mactation of the sacrifice had on expiation . the high-priest only to slay the sin-offering on the day of atonement ; from whence it is proved , that christs priesthood did not begin from his entrance into heaven . the mactation in expiatory sacrifices no bare preparation to a sacrifice , proved by the jewish laws , and the customs of other nations . whether christs oblation of himself once to god , were in heaven , or on earth ? of the proper notion of oblations under the levitical law. several things observed from thence to our purpose . all things necessary to a legal oblation , concurre in the death of christ. his entrance into heaven hath no correspondency with it ; if the blood of christ were no sacrifice for sin . in sin-offerings for the people , the whole was consumed ; no eating of the sacrifices allowed the priests , but in those for private persons . christs exercise of power in heaven , in no sense an oblation to god. crellius , his sense repugnant to the circumstances of the places in dispute . objections answered . the second thing to prove the death of christ a sacrifice for sin , is the oblation of it to god for that end . grotius towards the conclusion of his book , makes a twofold oblation of christ , parallel to that of the sacrifices under the law , the first of mactation , the second of representation ; whereof the first was done in the temple , the second in the holy of holies ; so the first of christ was on earth , the second in heaven ; the first is not a bare preparation to a sacrifice , but a sacrifice : the latter not so much a sacrifice , as the commemoration of one already past . wherefore , since appearing and interceding are not properly sacerdotal acts , any further than they depend on the efficacy of a sacrifice already offer'd , he that takes away that sacrifice , doth not leave to christ any proper priesthood , against the plain authority of the scripture , which assigns to christ the office of a priest distinct from that of a prophet and a king. to which crellius replyes : that the expiation of sin doth properly belong to what christ doth in heaven ; and may be applyed to the death of christ onely , as the condition by which he was to enjoy that power in heaven , whereby he doth expiate sins ; but the priest was never said to expiate sins when he kill'd the beast , but when the blood was sprinkled or carried into the holy of holyes , to which the oblation of christ in heaven doth answer : but the mactation , saith he , was not proper to the priests , but did belong to the levites also . and christ was not truly a priest , while he was on earth , but only prepared by his sufferings to be one in heaven , where by the perpetual care he takes of his people , and exercising his power for them , he is said to offer up himself , and intercede for them , and by that means he dischargeth the office of a high-priest for them . for his priestly office , he saith , is never in scripture mention'd as distinct from his kingly , but is comprehended under it ; and the great difference between them is , that one is of a larger extension than the other is , the kingly office extending to punishing , and the priestly only to expiation . this is the substance of what crellius more at large discourseth upon this subject . wherein he asserts these things . . that the priestly office of christ doth not in reference to the expiation of sins respect god but us ; his intercession and oblation wherein he makes the sacerdotal function of christ to consist , being the exercise of his power for the good of his people . . that christ did offer up no sacrifice of expiation to god upon earth , because the mactation had no reference to expiation , any other than as a preparation for it ; and christ not yet being constituted a high-priest till after his resurrection from the dead . against these two assertions i shall direct my following discourse , by proving ; . that the priestly office of christ had a primary respect to god , and not to us , . that christ did exercise this priestly office in the oblation of himself to god upon the cross. . that the priestly office of christ had a primary respect to god , and not to us ; which appears from the first institution of a high-priest , mentioned by the apostle , hebr. . . for every high-priest taken from among men , is ordained for men in things pertaining to god , that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins : id est , saith crellius elsewhere , ut procuret & peragat ea quae ad colendum ac propitiandum numen pertinent ; i. e. that he may perform the things which appertain to the worshipping and propitiating god : we desire no more , but that the propitiating god , may as immediately be said to respect him , as the worshipping of god doth ; or let crellius tell us , what sense the propitiating god will bear ; if all that the high-priest had to do , did immediately respect the people : nay , he saith not long after , that it was the chief office of a high-priest , to plead the cause of sinners with god , and to take care , that they may find him kind and propitious , and not angry or displeased . in what sense god was said to be moved by the expiatory sacrifices , is not here our business to discuss ; it is sufficient for our purpose , that they were instituted with a respect to god , so as to procure his favour , and divert his wrath . in which sense , the priest is so often in the levitical law said , by the offering up of sacrifices , to expiate the sins of the people . but crellius saith , this ought not so to be understood , as though god by expiatory sacrifices , were diverted from his anger , and inclined to pardon ; which is a plain contradiction , not onely to the words of the law , but to the instances that are recorded therein ; as when aaron was bid in the time of the plague , to make an atonement for the people , for there is wrath gone out from the lord : and he stood between the living and the dead , and the plague was stayed . was not gods anger then diverted here , by the making this atonement ? the like instance we read in davids time , that by the offering burnt-offerings , &c. the lord was intreated for the land , and the plague was stayed from israel : by which nothing can be more plain , than that the primary intention of such sacrifices , and consequently of the office of the priest who offered them , did immediately respect the atoning god : but yet crellius urgeth , this cannot be said of all , or of the most proper expiatory sacrifices : but we see it said of more than the meer sacrifices f●… sin , as appointed by the law ; viz. of burnt-offerings , and peace-offerings , and incense , i● the examples mentioned . so that these levitical sacrifices did all respect the atoning god ; although in some particular cases , different sacrifices were to be offered ; for it is said , the burnt-offering wa● to make atonement for them , as well as th● sin and trespass-offerings ( excepting those sacrifices which were instituted in acknowledgement of gods soveraignty over them and presence among them , as the daily sacrifices , the meat and drink offerings , o● such as were meerly occasional , &c. ) thus it is said , that aaron and his sons wer● appointed to make an atonement for israel so that as grotius observes out of phil● the high-priest was a mediator betwee● god and man , by whom men might propitiate god , and god dispense his favours to men . but the means whereby he did procure favours to men , was by atoning god by the sacrifices , which h●… was by his office to offer to him . w●… are now to consider , how far this hol● in reference to christ , for whose sake t●… apostle brings in these words ; and su●… would not have mentioned this as the pr● mary office of a high-priest , in order to ●he proving christ to be our high-priest , ●fter a more excellent manner than the ●…ronical was , unless he had agreed with ●im in the nature of his office , and ex●eeded him in the manner of perform●nce . for the apostle both proves , that he was 〈◊〉 true and proper , and not a bare meta●horical high-priest , and that in such a capa●ity , he very far exceeded the priests after the order of aaron . but how could that possibly be , if he failed in the primary office of a high-priest ; viz. in offering up gifts and sacrifices to god ? if his office as high-priest did primarily respect men , when the office of the aaronical priest did respect god ? to avoid this , crellius makes these words to be onely an allusion to the legal priesthood , and some kinde of similitude between christ and the aaronical priests ; but it is such a kinde of allusion , that the apostle designs to prove , christ to be an high-priest by it ; and which is of the greatest force , he proves the necessity of christs having somewhat to offer from hence : for every high-priest is ordained to offer gifts , and sacrifices ; wherefore it is of necessity , that this man have somewhat also to offer . this is that which he looks at as the peculiar and distinguishi●… character of a high-priest ; for intercedi●● for others , and having compassion upo● them , might be done by others besides th●… high-priest ; but this was that , witho●● which he could not make good his name what order soever he were of . if chri●… then had no proper sacrifice to offer upto god , to what purpose doth the apostle s● industriously set himself to prove , that h● is our high-priest ? when he must needs fai●… in the main thing , according to his own assertion ? how easie had it been for the jews , to have answered all the apostles arguments concerning the priesthood of christ , if he had been such a priest , and made no● other oblation than crellius allows him ? when the apostle proves against the jews , that there was no necessity , that they should still retain the mosaical dispensation , because now they had a more excellent high-priest than the aaronical were ; and makes use of that character of a high-priest , that he was one taken out from among men , 〈◊〉 things pertaining to god to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins : well , say the jews , we accept of this character , but how do yo● prove concerning christ , that he was such a one ? did he offer up a sacrifice fo● sin to god upon earth , as our high-priest do ? no , saith crellius , his sufferings were ●…ely a preparation for his priesthood in hea●●n : but did he then offer up such a sacrifice to god in heaven ? yes , saith crellius , he made an oblation there . but is that oblation such a sacrifice to god for sin , as our high-priest offers ? yes , ●aith crellius , it may be called so by way of ●llusion . well then , say they , you grant that your jesus is onely a high-priest by way of allusion , which was against your first design to prove ; viz. that he was a true high-priest , and more excellent than ours . but suppose it be by way of allusion , doth he make any oblation to god in heaven or not ? no , saith crellius , really and truly he doth not ; for all his office doth respect us , but the benefits we enjoy coming ●●iginally from the kindness of god , you may all it an oblation to god if you please . but how is it possible then , say the jews , you can ever convince us , that he is any high-priest , or priest at all , much less , that he should ever exceed the aaronical high-priests in their office ? for we are assured , that they do offer sacrifices for sin , and that god is atoned by them : but if your high-priest make no atonement for sin , he falls far short of ours , and therefore we will still hold to our levitical priesthood , and not forsake that for o●… barely metaphorical , and having nothin● really answering the name of a high priest. thus the force of all the apostl● arguments is plainly taken away , by wh●● crellius and his brethren assert concernin● the priesthood of christ. but crelli●… thinks to make it good by saying , th●● things that are improper and figurative , ma● be far more excellent than the things that ar● proper , to which they are opposed ; so 〈◊〉 christs priesthood may be far more excelle●● than the aaronical , although his be onely figurative , and the other proper . but the questio●… is not , whether christs priesthood by any other adventitious considerations , as o● greater power and authority than the aaronical priests had , may be said to be far more excellent than theirs was ; but , whether in the notion of priesthood , it doth exceed theirs ? which it is impossible to make good , unless he had some proper oblation to make unto god , which in it sel● did far exceed all the sacrifices and offerings under the law. but what that oblation of christ in heaven was , which had any correspondency with the sacrifices under the law , our adversaries can never assign ; nay , when they go about it , they speak of it in such a manner , as makes it very evident they could heartily have wished the epistle to the hebrews had said as little of the priesthood of christ , as they say , any other part of the new testament doth . thence smalcius and crellius insist so much upon the priesthood of christ , being distinctly mentioned by none but the author to the hebrews ; which , say they , had surely been done , if christ had been a proper priest , or that office in him distinct from his kingly . which sufficiently discovers what they would be at ; viz. that the testimony of the author to the hebrews , is but a single testimony in this matter ; and in truth , they do ( as far as is consistent with not doing it in express words ) wholly take away the priesthood of christ : for what is there which they say his priesthood implies , which he might not have had , supposing he had never been call'd a priest ? his being in heaven , doth not imply that he is a priest , unless it be impossible for any but priests ever to come there : his power and authority over the church , doth not imply it ; for that power is by themselves confessed to be a regal power : his readiness to use that power , cannot imply it , which is the thing smalcius insists on ; for his being a king of the church , doth necessarily imply his readiness to make use of his power for the good of his church . h● receiving his power from god , doth not i●ply that he was a priest , although crelli●● insists on that , unless all the kings of th● earth are priests by that means too , an● christ could not have had a subordinat● power as king , as well as priest. but hi● death is more implied , saith crellius , in th● name of a priest , than of a king ; true , if his death be considered as a sacrifice , but not otherwise : for what is there of a priest in bare dying , do not others so too ? but this represents greater tenderness and care in christ , than the meer title of a king : what kind of king do they imagine christ the mean while , if his being so , did not give the greatest encouragement to all his subjects ? nay , it is plain , the name of a king must yield greater comfort to his people , because that implies his power to defend them , which the bare name of a priest doth not . so that there could be no reason at all given , why the name of a high-priest should be at all given to christ , if no more were implied in it , than the exercise of his power , with respect to us , without any proper oblation to god : for here is no proper sacerdotal act at all attributed to him ; so that upon their hypothesis , the name of high-priest , is a meer insignificant title used by the author to the hebrews , without any foundation at all for it . by no means , saith crellius , for his expiation of sin is implyed by it , which is not implyed in the name of king : true , if the expiation of sin were done by him in the way of a priest by an oblation to god , which they deny ; but though they call it expiation , they mean no more than the exercise of his divine power in the delivering his people . but what parallel was there to this in the expiation of sins by the levitical priesthood ? that was certainly done by a sacrifice offered to god by the priest , who was thereby said to expiate the sins of the people : how comes it now to be taken quite in another sense , and yet still call'd by the same name ? but this being the main thing insisted on by them , i shall prove from their own principles , that no expiation of sin in their own sense can belong to christ in heaven , by vertue of his oblation of himself there , and consequently that they must unavoidably overthrow the whole notion of the priesthood of christ. for this we are to consider , what their notion of the expiation of sins is , which is set down briefly by crellius in the beginning of his discourse of sacrifices , there is a twofold power , saith he , of the sacrifice of christ towards the expiation of sin , one taking away the guilt and the punishment of sin , and that partly by declaring , that god will do it , and giving us a right to it , partly by actual deliverance from punishment ; the other is by beg●tting faith in us , and so drawing us off from the practice of sin : now the first and last crellius and socinus attribute to the death of christ , as that was a confirmation of the covenant god made for the remission of sin ; and as it was an argument to perswade us to believe the truth of his doctrine ; and the other , viz. the actual deliverance from punishment , is by themselves attributed to the second coming of christ ; for then only , they say , the just shall be actually deliver'd from the punishment of sin , viz. eternal death ; and what expiation is there now left to the oblation of christ in heaven ? doth christ in heaven declare the pardon of sin any other way than it was declared by him upon earth ? what efficacy hath his oblation in heaven upon perswading men to believe ? or is his second coming , when he shall sit as judge , the main part of his priesthood ; for then the expiation of sins in our adversaries sense is most proper ? and yet nothing can be more remote from the notion of christs priesthood , than that is ; so that expiation of sins according to them can have no respect at all to the oblation of christ in heaven , or ( which is all one in their sense ) his continuance in heaven to his second coming . yes , saith crellius , his continuance there , is a condition in order to the expiation by actual deliverance , and therefore it may be said , that god is as it were moved by it to expiate sins . the utmost then , that is attributed to christs being in heaven , in order to the expiation of sins , is that he must continue there without doing any thing in order to it ; for if he does , it must either respect god or us : but they deny ( though contrary to the importance of the words , and the design of the places where they are used ) that the terms of christs interceding for us , or being an advocate with the father for us , doth note any respect to god , but only to us ; if he does any thing with respect to us in expiation of sin , it must be either declaring , perswading , or actual deliverance ; but it is none of these by their own assertions ; and therefore that which they call christs oblation , or his being in heaven , signifies nothing as to the expiation of sin : and it is unreasonable to suppose that a thing , which hath no influence at all upon it , should be looked on as a condition in order to it . from whence it appears , that while our adversaries do make the exercise of christs priesthood to respect us and not god , they destroy the very nature of it , and leave christ only an empty name without any thing answering to it : but if christ be truly a high-priest , as the apostle asserts that he is , from thence it follows that he must have a respect to god in offering up gifts and sacrifices for sin : which was the thing to be proved . . that christ did exercise this priestly-office in the oblation of himself to god upon the cross. which i shall prove by two things , . because the death of christ is said in scripture to be an offering , and a sacrifice to god. . because christ is said to offer up himself antecedently to his entrance into heaven . . because the death of christ is said to be an offering , and a sacrifice to god , which is plain from the words of s. paul , as christ also hath loved us , and given himself for us , an offering and a sacrifice to god , for a sweet-smelling savour . our adversaries do not deny that the death of christ is here call'd an oblation , but they deny , that it is meant of an expiatory sacrifice , but of a free-will offering ; and the reason crellius gives is , because that phrase of a sweet-smelling savour is generally and almost alwayes used of sacrifices which are not expiatory ; but if ever they be used of an expiatory sacrifice , they are not applyed to that which was properly expiatory in it , viz. the offering up of the blood , for no smell , saith he , went up from thence , but to the burning of the fat , and the kidneys , which although required to perfect the expiation , yet not being done till the high-priest returned out of the holy of holies , hath nothing correspondent to the expiatory sacrifice of christ , where all things are perfected before christ the high-priest goes forth of his sanctuary . how inconsistent these last words are with what they assert concerning the expiation of sin by actual deliverance at the great day , the former discourse hath already discover'd . for what can be more absurd , than to say , that all things which pertain to the expiation of sin are perfected before christ goes forth from his sanctuary , and yet to make the most proper expiation of sin to lye in that act of christ which is consequent to his going forth of the sanctuary , viz. when he proceeds to judge the quick and the dead . but of that already . we now come to a punctual and direct answer , as to which two things must be enquired into . . what the importance of the phrase of a sweet-smelling savour is ? . what the sacrifices are to which that phrase is applyed . . for the importance of the phrase . the first time we read it used in scripture was upon the occasion of noahs sacrifice after the flood , of which it is said , that he offer'd burnt-offerings on the altar , and the lord smelled a savour of rest , or a sweet savour . which we are not to imagine in a gross corporeal manner , as crellius seems to understand it , when he saith , the blood could not make such a savour as the fat and the kidneys ; for surely , none ever thought the smell of flesh burnt was a sweet smelling savour of it self , and we must least of all imagine that of god , which porphyry saith , was the property only of the worst of daemons to be pleased , and as it were , to grow fat , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , with the smell and vapours of blood , and flesh , ( by which testimony , it withall appears , that the same steams in sacrifices were supposed to arise from the blood as the flesh : ) but we are to understand that phrase in a sense agreeable to the divine nature , which we may easily doe , if we take it in the sense the syriack version takes it in , when it calls it , odorem placabilitatis , or the savour of rest , as the word properly signifies ; for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the word formed from the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is used for the resting of the ark , v. . of the same chapter , and so it imports a rest after some commotion , and in that sense is very proper to atonement , or that whereby god makes his anger to rest ; so aben ezra upon that place expounds the savour of rest , to be such a one which makes god cease from his anger : thence in hiphil 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies to appeal , or to make peace ; in which sense it is used by r. solom . upon isa. . . munster tells us the sense is , deus nunc quievit ab ira & placatus suit , and to the same purpose vatablus : which sense is most agreeable to the design of the following words , in which god expresseth his great kindness , and the lord said in his heart , i will not again curse the ground any more for mans sake ; which are words highly expressing , how much god was propitiated by the sacrifice which noah offered , and therefore josephus doth well interpret this to be a proper expiatory sacrifice ; that god would now be atoned , and send no more such a deluge upon the world ; which he saith , was the substance of noahs prayer , when he offered this burnt-offering , and that god would receive his sacrifice 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that he would no more receive such displeasure against the earth : so that the first time ever this expression was used , it is taken in the proper sense of an expiatory sacrifice . and by that the second enquiry may be easily resolved ; viz. what kind of sacrifices it doth belong to , which we see in the first place is , to expiatory ; which crellius denies by a great mistake , of the sense of the phrase , and of the nature of the offerings , concerning which this expression is most used ; viz. holocausts , as though those were not expiatory sacrifices : but if we can make it appear , that the holocausts were expiatory sacrifices , then it will follow , that this phrase doth most properly agree to a sacrifice designed for expiation . but crellius here speaks very confusedly concerning sacrifices , opposing holocausts and freewil-offerings to expiatory sacrifices ; whereas the freewill-offerings might be expiatory , as well as eucharistical ; that denomination not respecting the end the sacrifices were designed for , but that the precise time of offering them was not determined by the law , as in the stated and solemn sacrifices . for the general distribution of sacrifices , seems most proper into propitiatory and eucharistical ; which distinction is thought by some to ●old from the first time we read of sacri●●ces in scripture ; because the sacrifice of ●●in was of the fruits of the ground , and of ●●bel , of the firstlings of his flock . although ●here seems to be nothing meant by this difference of sacrifices , but the diversity of their imployments , either of them sacrificing according to them ; and i cannot ●ay what some do , that the reason of gods rejecting cains sacrifice , was because it was not designed for expiation . but the practice of after ages , wherein we have a fuller account of the grounds of the several sacrifices , makes it appear , that the expiatory sacrifices before the law , were all burnt-offerings ; and of all those who were not under the particular obligation of that law : as is plain in the expiatory sacrifices of job for his sons , and for his friends , which were burnt-offerings ; and among the jews , all the sacrifices that were offered up before the levitical law , were , as the jews themselves tell us , onely burnt-offerings : and after the setling of their worship among themselves , they did receive burnt-offerings for expiation from strangers , as mr. selden at large proves from the jewish writers . it seems then very strange , that since burnt-offerings before the law were expiatory , and unde● the law they continued so for strangers they should be of another nature for th● jews themselves . but what reason is ther● for it in the text ? not the least that i ca● find , but expresly the contrary . for i● the beginning of leviticus , where the la● for burnt-offerings is delivered , the word● are , and he shall put his hand upon the hea● of the burnt-offering , and it shall be accepte● for him , to make atonement for him ; which is as much as is ever said of any expiatory sacrifices : and in the verse before , where we render 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of his own voluntary will ; i● is by the vulgar latin rendred , ad plac●●dum sibi dominum ; by the syriack version , ad placationem sibi obtinendam a domino ; and to the same purpose by the chald●● paraphrast ; but no one version considerable that so renders it , as to make burnt-offerings to be freewill-offerings here , which are spoken of distinctly , and by themselves afterwards : and the chald●● paraphrast , jonathan thus explains , this is the law of the burnt-offering ; i. e. quod ve●… ad expiandum pro cogitationibus cordis ; bu● although the jews be not fully agreed what the burnt-offerings were designed to expiate , yet they consent that they were of an expiatory nature . which might make us the more wonder , that crellius ●…d others should exclude them from it , ●…t the onely reason given by him is , be●…se they are distinguished from sacrifices for 〈◊〉 , as though no sacrifices were of an ●…piatory nature but they , and then the ●…spass-offerings must be excluded too , for ●…ey are distinguished from sin-offerings as ●…ell as the other . the ignorance of the ●…s in the reason of their own customs , ●●th been an occasion of great mistakes ●●ong christians , concerning the nature 〈◊〉 them ; when they judge of them according to the blind or uncertain conjectures ●hich they make concerning them : so that ●●e text is oftimes far clearer than their commentaries are . setting aside then the ●●tricate and unsatisfactory niceties of the ●ewish writers , about the several reasons ●f the burnt-offerings and sin and trespass-●fferings , and the differences they make be●ween them , which are so various and in●oherent , i shall propose this conjecture ●oncerning the different reasons of them , ●iz . that some sacrifices were assumed into ●he jewish religion , which had been long ●n use in the world before , and were common to them with the patriarchs , and all those who in that age of the world did fear and serve god , and such were the burnt-offerings for expiation of sin , and the frui●… of the earth by way of gratitude to go●… other sacrifices were instituted amo●● them , with a particular respect to the● selves , as a people governed by the law●… of god : and these were of several sorts . symbolical , of gods presence amo●● them , such was the daily sacrifice , institute as a testimony of gods presence , exod. ●… from v. . to the end . . occasional , fo●… some great mercies vouchsafed to them , a●… the passover and the solemn festivals , &c ▪ . expiatory , for the sins ●●mmitted agains● their law : and th●se were of three sorts . such as were wholly consumed to th●… honor of god , which were the burnt-offerings . . such , of which some part wa●… consumed upon the altar , and some par●… fell to the share of the priests ; and thes● were either sins particularly enumerated by god himself , under the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or else generally comprehended under the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being allowed to be expiated , becaus● committed through inadvertency . . such whereof a less part was consumed , as in th●… peace-offerings of the congregation , mentioned levit. . . whereof the blood 〈◊〉 sprinkled , onely the inwards burnt , and 〈◊〉 flesh not eaten by the persons that offered them , 〈◊〉 it was in the peace-offerings of particular persons ( of which as being private sacrifices , have here no occasion to speak ) but ●…ely by the priests in the court ; and these ●…ad something of expiation in them : for ●…ence , saith vatablus , the peace-offering was ●…all'd by the greeks 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. expiato●…m , and the lxx . commonly render it , ●…lae 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and several of the jews think ●…he reason of the name was , that it made ●…ace between god and him that offered it : ●ut the great reason i insist on , is , because ●…ll the things which were used in an expia●…ory sacrifice , were in this too ; the slay●…ng of the beast , the sprinkling of the blood , and the consumption of some part of it upon the altar , as an oblation to god , which are the three ingredients of ●…n expiatory sacrifice , for the shedding of ●…e blood , noted the bearing the punishment of our iniquity ; and , the sprinkling of 〈◊〉 on the altar , and the consuming of the part ●…f the sacrifice , or the whole there , that it was designed for the expiation of sin . from whence it follows , that the phrase of a sweet-smelling savour , being applied under the law to expiatory sacrifices , is very proper●y used by s. paul , concerning christs giving up himself for us : ●o that from this phrase , nothing can be inferred contrary ●o the expiatory nature of the death of christ , but rather it is fully agreea●… to it . but crellius hath yet a further argume●… to prove that christs death cannot be 〈◊〉 meant as the expiatory sacrifice ; viz. 〈◊〉 the notion of a sacrifice , doth consist in the ●…lation whereby the thing is consecrated to 〈◊〉 honour and service of god , to which the ma●…tion is but a bare preparation ; which 〈◊〉 proves , because the slaying the sacrifice 〈◊〉 belong to others besides the priests , ezek. 〈◊〉 , . but the oblation only to the prie●… to this i answer , . the mactation may 〈◊〉 considered two ways , either with a resp●… to the bare instrument of taking away t●… life , or to the design of the offerer of th●… which was to be sacrificed : as the mac●…tion hath a respect only to the instrume●● so it is no otherways to be considered th●… as a punishment ; but as it hath a respect 〈◊〉 him that designs it for a sacrifice , so t●… shedding of the blood , hath an immedi●… influence on the expiation of sin . a●… that by this clear argument , the blood 〈◊〉 said to make an atonement for the soul ; 〈◊〉 the reason given is , because the life of 〈◊〉 flesh is in the blood : so that which was 〈◊〉 life , is the great thing which makes 〈◊〉 atonement ; and when the blood was sh●… the life was then given ; from whence follows , that the great efficacy of the sacrifice for atonement lay in the shedding of ●he blood for that end . thence the apostle●ttributes ●ttributes remission of sins to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the shedding of the blood ; and not to the bare oblation of it on the altar , or the carrying it into the holy of holies , both which seem to be nothing else but a more solemn representation of that blood before god , which was already shed for the expiation of sins , which was therefore necessary to be performed , that the concurrence of the priest might be seen with the sacrifice in order to expiation . for if no more had been necessary but the bare slaying of the beasts , which was the meanest part of the service , the people would never have thought the institution of the priesthood necessary , and least of all that of the high-priest , unless some solemn action of his had been performed , such as the entring into the holy of holies , on the day of expiation , and carrying it , and sprinkling the blood of the sin-offering in order to the expiation of the sins of the people . and it is observable , that although the levitical law be silent in the common sacrifices , who were to kill them whether the priests or the levites ; yet on that day whereon the high-priest was to appear himself for the expiation of sin , 〈◊〉 is expressely said , that he should not o●… kill , the bullock of the sin-offering , which 〈◊〉 for himself , but the goat of the sin-offeri●● which is for the people . and although th●… talmudists dispute from their traditio●… on both sides , whether any one else migh●… on the day of expiation , slay the sin-offerings besides the high-priest ; yet it i●… no news for them to dispute against th●… text : and the talmud it self is clear , tha● the high-priest did it . from whence i●… appears , there was something peculiar o●… that day as to the slaying of the sin-offerings ; and if our adversaries opinion hold good , that the sacrifices on the day of expiation did , if not alone , yet chiefly represent th●… sacrifice of christ , no greater argument can be brought against themselves than this is , for the office of the high-priest did not begin at his carrying the blood into the holy of holies , but the slaying the sacrifice did belong to him too : from whence it will unavoidably follow , that christ did not enter upon his office of high-priest , when he enter'd into heaven , but when the sacrifice was to be slain which was designed for the expiation of sins . it is then to no purpose at all , if crelli●… could prove that sometimes in ordinary sacrifices , ( which he will not say , the sacrifice of christ was represented by ) the levites might kill the beasts for sacrifice ; for it appears , that in those sacrifices , wherein themselves contend that christs was represented , the office of the high-priest did not begin with entring into the sanctuary , but with the mactation of that sacrifice whose blood was to be carried in thither . therefore if we speak of the bare instruments of mactation in the death of christ , those were the jews , and we make not them priests in it , for they aimed at no more than taking away his life ( as the popae among the romans , and those whose bare office it was to kill the beasts for sacrifice among the jews did : ) but if we consider it with a respect to him that offer'd up his life to god , then we say , that christ was the high-priest in doing it ; it being designed for the expiation of sin ; and by vertue of this blood-shed for that end , he enters into heaven as the holy of holies , there ever living to make intercession for us . but the vertue of the consequent acts , depends upon the efficacy of the blood shed for expiation ; otherwise the high-priest might have enter'd with the same effect into the holy of holies with any other blood besides that which was shed on purpose as a sin-offering , for expiation of the sins of the people ; which it was unlawfull for him to doe . and from hence it is , that the apostle to the hebrews insists so much on the comparison between the blood of christ , and the blood of the legal sacrifices , and the efficacy of the one far above the other , in its power of expiation ; which he needed not to have done , if the shedding of his blood , had been only a preparation for his entrance on his priesthood in heaven . so that the proper notion of a sacrifice for sin , as it notes the giving the life of one for the expiation of the sins of another , doth properly lye in the mactation , though other sacrificial acts may be consequent upon it . so it was in the animales hostiae among the romans , in which , saith macrobius , sola anima deo sacratur : of which he tells us virgil properly speaks in those words , hanc tibi eryx meliorem animam pro morte daretis . and that we may the better understand what he means by the anima here , he saith elsewhere ( as macrobius and servius observe out of his excellent skill and accuracy in the pontifical rites ) sanguine placastis ventos & virgine caesa , cum primum iliacas danai venistis ad oras : sanguine quaerendi reditus , animaque litandum argolica . which shews , that the expiation was supposed to lye in the blood which they call'd the soul , as the scripture doth . and the persians as strabo tells us , looked upon the bare mactation as the sacrifice , for they did not porricere as the romans call'd it , they laid none of the parts of the sacrifice upon the altar to be consumed there , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for god regarded nothing but the soul in the sacrifice : which words eustathius likewise useth upon homer , of the sacrifices of the magi. and strabo affirms of the ancient lusitani , that they cut off nothing of the sacrifice : but consumed the entrails whole ; but though such sacrifices which were for divination were not thought expiatory , and therefore different from the animales hostiae , yet among the persians , every sacrifice had a respect to expiation of the whole people . for herodotus tells us , that every one that offers sacrifice among them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , prayes for good to all persians and the king. but thus much may serve to prove against crellius , that the mactation in an expiatory sacrifice , was not a meer preparation to a sacrifice , but that it was a proper sacrificial act , and consequently that christ acted as high-priest , when he gave himself for us , an offering and a sacrifice to god for a sweet-smelling savour . but this will further appear from those places wherein christ is said to offer up himself once to god : the places to this purpose are . heb. . . who needeth not daily as those high-priests to offer up sacrifice , first for his own sins , and then for the peoples , for this he did once , when he offer'd up himself . heb. . . how much more shall the blood of christ , who through the eternal spirit offer'd himself without spot to god , purge your conscience from dead works , to serve the living god. v. , , , . nor yet that he should offer himself often , as the high-priest entreth into the holy place every year with the blood of others ; for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world : but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself . and as it is appointed to men once to dye , but after this the judgement : so christ was once offered to bear the sins of many , and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation . heb. . , , . by the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of jesus christ once for all . and every high-priest , standeth daily ministring and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices , which can never take away sins : but this man after he had offer'd one sacrifice for sins for ever sate down on the right hand of god. to these places crellius gives this answer , that the name of oblation as applyed to christ , primarily signifies christs first entrance into heaven , and appearance before the face of god there , but consequently the continuance of that appearance ; so that when a thing is once actually exhibited and presented , it is said to be once offer'd , although being offer'd , it alwayes remains in the same place , and so may be said to be a continual oblation . but this first appearance , saith he , hath a peculiar agreement with the legal oblation ; and therefore the name of oblation doth most properly belong to that , because christ by this means obtained that power on which the perfect remission of our sins depends : but although the continuance of that appearance , seems only consequentially to have the name of oblation belonging to it , yet in its own nature , it hath a nearer conjunction with the effect of the oblation , viz. the remission of sins , or deliverance from punishment , and doth of it self conferre more to it than the other doth . and therefore in regard of that , christ is said most perfectly to exercise his priesthood , and to offer and intercede for us , from the time he is said to sit down at the right hand of god. against this answer , i shall prove these two things , . that it is incoherent , and repugnant to it self . . that it by no means agrees to the places before mention'd . . that it is incoherent and repugnant to it self in two things . . in making that to be the proper oblation in correspondency to the oblations of the law , which hath no immediate respect to the expiation of sins . . in making that to have the most immediate respect to the expiation of sins , which can in no tolerable sense be call'd an oblation . for the first , since crellius saith , that the proper notion of oblation is to be taken from the oblations in the levitical law , we must consider what it was there , and whether christs first entrance into heaven can have any correspondency with it . an oblation under the law was in generall , any thing which was immediately dedicated to god , but in a more limited sense it was proper to what was dedicated to him by way of sacrifice according to the appointments of the levitical law. we are not now enquiring what was properly call'd an oblation in other sacrifices , but in those which then were for expiation of sin ; and in the oblation was , first of the persons for whom the sacrifice was offer'd . so in the burnt-offering , the person who brought it , was to offer it at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation : i. e. as the jewes expound it at the entrance of the court of the priests , and there he was to lay his hands upon the head of it , and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him . this offering was made before the beast was slain ; after the killing the beast , then the priests were to make an offering of the blood , by sprinkling it round about the altar of burnt-offerings , the rest of the blood , say the jewes , was poured out by the priests , at the south-side of the altar upon the foundation , where the two holes were for the passage into the channel which convey'd the blood into the valley of kidron : thus the blood being offered , the parts of the beast , were by the priests to be laid upon the altar , and there they were all to be consumed by fire ; and then it was call'd an offering made by fire , of a sweet savour unto the lord. the same rites were used in the peace-offerings , and trespass-offerings , as to the laying on of hands , and the sprinkling the blood , and consuming some part by fire : and in the sin-offerings , there was to be the same imposition of hands : but concerning the sprinkling of the blood , and the way of consuming the remainders of the sacrifice , there was this considerable difference ; that in the common sin-offerings for particular persons , the blood was sprinkled upon the horns of the altar of burnt-offerings , but in the sin-offerings for the high-priest and the congregation , or all the people , he was to carry the blood within the sanctuary , and to sprinkle of it seven times before the vail of the sanctuary ; and some of the blood was to be put upon the horns of the altar of incense ; but the remainder of the blood , and the same things ( which were offered by fire in peace-offerings ) were to be disposed of accordingly , on the altar of burnt-offerings . and withall , there was this great difference , that in other sin-offerings the priests were to eat the remainder of the sacrifice in the holy place ; but in these there was nothing to be eaten by them ; for the whole bullock was to be carried forth without the camp , and there he was to be burned till all were consumed . for it was an ex●ress law , that no sin-offering , whereof any 〈◊〉 the blood is brought into the tabernacle of ●he congregation , to reconcile withall in the holy-place , shall be eaten : it shall be burnt in ●●e fire . all the difference that was on the great day of atonement , was this , that the high-priest himself was to slay the sin-offerings , and then to carry the blood of them into the holy of holies , and there was to sprinkle ●he blood with his finger towards the mercy●●at seven times : after which , and the sending away the scape-goat , the ceremonies were the same for the atonement of the people , which were at other solemn sin-offerings , for the priest or the people . from all which being thus laid together , we shall observe several things , which are very material to our purpose : . that in the oblations which were made for expiation of sins , the difference between the mactation and the oblation , did arise from the difference between the priest and the sacrifice . for the priests office was to atone , but he was to atone by the sacrifice ; on which account , although the priest were to offer the sacrifice for himself , yet the oblation did not lie in the bare presenting himself before god , but in the presenting the blood of that sacrifice , which was shed in order to expiation . if we coul● have supposed , that the high-priest unde● the law , instead of offering a goat for 〈◊〉 sin-offering for the people , on the day o●… atonement , should have made an oblatio●… of himself to god , by dying for the expiation of their sins : in this case , his death being the sacrifice , and himself the priest , the mactation , as it relates to his own act , and his oblation had been one and the same thing . for his death had been nothing else , but the offering up himself to god , in order to the expiation of the sins of the people ; and there can be no reason , why the oblation must be of necessity something consequent to his death , since all things necessary to a perfect oblation do concur in it . for where there is something solemnly devoted to god , and in order to the expiation of sins , and by the hand of a priest , there are all things concurring to a legal oblation ; but in this case , all these things do concur , and therefore there can be no imaginable necessity of making the oblation of christ , onely consequent to his ascension , since in his death all things concur to a proper oblation . in the law , we grant that the oblation made by the priest , was consequent to the death of the beast for sacrifice ; but the reason of that was , because the beast could not offer up 〈◊〉 self to god , and god had made it neces●ry , that the priest should expiate sins , ●ot by himself , but by those sacrifices , ●nd therefore the oblation of the blood ●as after the sacrifice was slain ; neither ●ould this have been solved barely by the ●riests slaying of the sacrifices ; for this being 〈◊〉 act of violence towards the beasts that ●…ere thus kill'd , could not be a proper ob●ation , which must suppose a consent ante●edent to it . all which shewed the great imperfection of the levitical law , in which so many several things were to concur , to make up a sacrifice for sin ; viz. the first offering made by the party concerned , of what was under his dominion ; viz. the beast to be sacrificed at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation : but the beast not being able to offer up it self , it was necessary for the offering up its blood , that it must be slain by others ; and for the better understanding , not onely of the efficacy of the blood , but the concurrence of the priest for expiation , he was to take the blood , and sprinkle some of it on the altar , and pour out the rest at the foundation of it . but since we assert a far more noble and excellent sacrifice , by the son of god freely offering up himself , to be made a sacrifice for the sins of the world , why may not this b●… as proper an oblation made unto god , 〈◊〉 any was under the law , and far more excellent , both in regard of the priest and th●… sacrifice : why should his oblation of himself then be made onely consequent to hi●… death and resurrection ? which latter , being by our adversaries made not his own act , but gods upon him , and his entrance into heaven , being given him ( as they assert ) as a reward of his sufferings , in what tolerable sense can that be call'd an oblation of himself , which was conferred upon him as a reward of his former sufferings ? from whence it follows , that upon our adversaries own grounds , the death of christ may far more properly be call'd the oblation of himself , than his entrance into heaven ; and that there is no necessity of making the oblation of christ consequent to his death , there being so great a difference between the sacrifice of christ , and that of the sacrifices for sin under the levitical law. . we observe , that the oblation as performed by the priest , did not depend upon his presenting himself before god , but upon the presenting the blood of a sacrifice , which had been already slain for the expiation of sins . if the priest had gone into the holy of holies , and there onely ●esented himself before the mercy-seat , ●…d that had been all required in order 〈◊〉 the expiation of sins , there had been ●…me pretence for our adversaries mak●g christs presenting himself in heaven , 〈◊〉 be the oblation of himself to god ; but ●…nder the law , the efficacy of the high-●iests entrance into the holy of holies , did ●epend upon the blood which he carried in ●…ither , which was the blood of the sin●…ring , which was already slain for the expiation of sins : and in correspondency ●…o this , christs efficacy in his entrance in●… heaven , as it respects our expiation , must ●ave a respect to that sacrifice which was ●ffered up to god antecedent to it . and 〈◊〉 wonder our adversaries do so much insist on the high priests entring into the most ●…oly place once a year , as though all the ex●iation had depended upon that ; whereas all the promise of expiation , was not upon his bare entrance into it ; but upon the blood which he carried along with him , and sprinkled there : in correspondency to which , our saviour is not barely said , to enter into heaven , and present himself to god , but that he did this by his own blood , having obtained eternal redemption for 〈◊〉 . . we observe , that there was som●thing correspondent in the death of chris●… to somewhat consequent to the oblatio●… under the law , and therefore there c●… be no reason to suppose , that the oblatio●… of christ must be consequent to his death for that destroys the correspondency between them . now this appears in thi● particular , in the solemn sacrifices for sin●… after the sprinkling of the blood , which wa● carried into the holy place to reconcile with all , all the remainder of the sacrifice wa● to be burnt without the camp , and this held on the day of atonement , as well as in other sin-offerings for the congregation . now the author to the hebrews tells us , that in correspondency to this , jesus that h●… might sanctifie the people with his , own blood , suffered without the gate : what force i● there in this , unless the blood of christ did answer to the sin-offerings for the people , and his oblation was supposed to be made before ; and therefore that he might have all things agreeable to those sin-offerings , the last part was to be compleated too ; viz. that he was to suffer without the gate ; which after the peoples settlement in jerusalem , answered to the being burnt without the camp in the wilderness . . we observe , that the oblation in ex●iatory sacrifices under the law , by the priest , had always relation to the consumption of what was offered : thus the offering of ●he blood , in token of the destruction of the ●…ife of the beast , whose blood was offered ; for no blood was to be offered of a living creature , nor of one kill'd upon any other account , but for that end to be a sacrifice for sin , and after the sprinkling and pouring out of the blood , the inwards of some , and all of the other , were to be consumed by fire . and it is observable , that the greater the sacrifice for sin was , always the more was consumed of it ; as appears plainly by the forementioned difference of the sin-offerings for private persons , and for the people ; of the former , the priests were allowed to eat , but not at all of the latter . and so it was observed among the egyptians , in the most solemn sacrifices for expiation , nothing was allowed to be eaten of that part which was designed for that end . for herodotus gives us an account why the egyptians never eat the head of any living creature ; which is , that when they offer up a sacrifice , they make a solemn execration upon it , that if any evil were to fall upon the the persons who sacrificed , or upon all egypt ▪ it might be turned upon the head of that beast and plutarch addes , that after this sole●… execration , they cut off th● head , and of old , threw it i●to the river , but then g●… it to strangers . from which custom we observe , that in a solemn sacrifice for expiation , the guilt of the offenders , was by this rite of execration supposed to be transferred upon the head of the sacrifice , as it was in the sacrifices among the jews , by the laying on of hands ; and that nothing was to be eaten of what was supposed to have that guilt transferred upon it . from hence all expiatory sacrifices were at first whole burnt-offerings , as appears by the patriarchal sacrifices , and the customs of other nations , and among the jews themselves , as we have already proved in all solemn offerings for the people . and although in the sacrifices of private persons , some parts were allowed to be eaten by the priests ; yet those which were designed for expiation were consumed . so that the greater the offering was to god , the more it implied the consumption of the thing which was so offered : how strangely improbable then is it , that the oblation of christ should not ( as under the law ) have respect to his death and sufferings ; but to his entrance into heaven , wherein nothing is supposed to be consumed , but all things given him with far greater power , as our adversaries suppose , than ever he had before . but we see the apostle parallels christs suffering with the burning of the sacrifices , and his blood with the blood of them , and consequently his offering up himself , must relate not to his entrance into heaven , but to that act of his whereby he suffer'd for sins , and offer'd up his blood as a sacrifice for the sins of the world . from all which it appears ; how far more agreeably to the oblations under the law , christ is said to offer up himself for the expiation of sins by his death and sufferings , than by his entrance into heaven ; for it is apparent , that the oblations in expiatory sacrifices under the law , were such upon which the expiation of sin did chiefly depend ; but by our adversaries own confession , christs oblation of himself by his entrance into heaven , hath no immediate respect at all to the expiation of sin : only as the way whereby he was to enjoy that power by which he did expiate sins , as crellius saith ; now , let us consider , what more propriety there is in making this presenting of christ in heaven to have a correspondency with the legal oblations , than the offering up himself upon the cross. for . on the very same reason that his entrance into heaven is made an oblation , his death is so too ; viz. because it was the way whereby he obtained the power of expiation ; and far more properly so than the other , since they make christs entrance and power the reward of his sufferings , but they never make his sitting at the right hand of god , the reward of his entrance into heaven . . his offering up himself to god upon the cross , was his own act , but his entrance into heaven was gods , as themselves acknowledge , and therefore could not in any propriety of speech be call'd christs offering up himself . . if it were his own act , it could not have that respect to the expiation of sins , which his death had ; for our adversaries say , that his death was by reason of our sins , and that he suffer'd to purge us from sin ; but his entrance into heaven was upon his own account , to enjoy that power and authority , which he was to have at the right hand of god. . how could christs entrance into heaven , be the way for his enjoying that power which was necessary for the expiation of sin , when christ before his entrance into heaven , saith , that all power was given to him in heaven and earth : and the reason assigned in scripture of that power and authority which god gave him is , because he humbled himself , and became obedient to death , even the death of 〈◊〉 cross : so that the entrance of christ in●● heaven , could not be the means of obtaining that power which was conferred before ; but the death of christ is mention'd on that account in scripture . . if the death of christ were no expiatory sacrifice , the entrance of christ into heaven could be no oblation proper to a high-priest ; for his entrance into the holy of holies , was on the account of the blood of the ●●n-offering which he carried in with him . ●f there were then no expiatory sacrifice before , that was slain for the sins of men ; christ could not be said to make any obla●ion in heaven , for the oblation had respect to a sacrifice already slain ; so that ●f men deny that christs death was a pro●er sacrifice for sin , he could make no oblation at all in heaven , and christ ●ould not be said to enter thither , as ●he high-priest entred into the holy of holies with the blood of the sacri●●ce ; which is the thing which the author to the hebrews , asserts concerning christ. . there is as great an inconsistency i● making the exercise of christs power i● heaven , an oblation in any sense , as in making christs entrance into heaven , to 〈◊〉 the oblation which had corresponde●●● with the oblations of the law. for what is there which hath the least resemblance with an oblation in it ? hath it any respect to god , as all the legal oblations had ? no● for his intercession and power , crellius , saith , respects us , and not god. was there any sacrifice at all in it for expiation ? how is it possible , that the meer exercise of power should be call'd a sacrifice ? what analogy is there at all between them ? and how could he be then said most perfectly to exercise his priesthood , when there was no consideration at all of any sacrifice offer'd up to god ? so that upon these suppositions the author to the hebrews must argu●… upon strange similitudes , and fancy resemblances to himself , which it was impossible for the jews to understand him in , who were to judge of the nature of priesthoo● and oblations in a way agreeable to t●● institutions among themselves . but was●… possible for them to understand such obl●tions and a priesthood which had no respec● at all to god , but wholly to the people ; and such an holies●ithout ●ithout the blood of an sacrifice●or ●or the sins of the people ? but such abs●●dities do men betray themselves into , when they are forced to strain express pla●es of scripture to serve an hypothesis , which they think themselves obliged to ●●intain . we now come to shew that this interpretation of crellius doth not agree with the circumstances of the places before mention'd , which will easily appear by these brief considerations . . that the apostle alwayes speaks of the offering of christ as a thing past and once done , so as not 〈◊〉 be done again ; which had been very improper , if by the oblation of christ , he had meant the continual appearance of christ in heaven for us , which yet is , and will never cease to be till all his enemies be made his foot-stool . . that he ●…ill speaks in allusion to the sacrifices which were in use among the jews , and ●herefore the oblation of christ must be 〈◊〉 such a way as was agreeable to what ●as used in the levitical sacrifices , which ●e have already at large proved he could ●ot do in our adversaries sense . . that ●●e apostle speaks of such a sacrifice for sins to which the sitting at the right hand of god was consequent ; so that the oblation antecedent to it must be properly that sacrifice for sins which he offer'd to god ; and therefore the exercise of his power for expiation of sins , which they say is meant by sitting at the right hand of god , cannot be that sacrifice for sins : neither can his entrance into heaven be it , which in what sense it can be call'd a sacrifice for sins , since themselves acknowledge it had no immediate relation to the expiation of them , i cannot understand . . the apostle speaks of such an offering of christ once , which if it had been repeated , doth imply , that christs sufferings must have been repeated too . for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world : but the repeated exercise of christs power in heaven doth imply no necessity at all of christs frequent suffering , nor his frequent entrance into heaven ; which might have been done without suffering , therefore it must be meant of such an offering up himself as was implyed in his death and sufferings . . he speaks of the offering up of that body which god gave him wh●● he came into the world ; but our adversaries deny , that he carried the same body into heaven , and therefore he must speak not of an offering of christ in heaven , but what was performed here on earth . but here , our adversaries have shewn us a tryal of their skill , when they tell us with much confidence that the world into which christ is here said to come , is not to be understood of this world , but of that to come ; which is not only contrary to the general acceptation of the word when taken absolutely as it is here ; but to the whole scope and design of the place . for he speaks of that world , wherein sacrifices and burnt-offerings were ●…ed , and the levitical law was observed , although not sufficient for perfect expiation , and so rejected for that end , and withall he speaks of that world wherein the chearfull obedience of christ to the will of his father was seen , for he saith , lo i come to do thy will o god , which is repeated afterwards ; but will they say , that this world was not the place into which christ came to obey the will of his father ? and how could it he so properly said of the future world , lo i come to do thy will ; when they make the design of his ascension to be the receiving the reward of his doing and suffering the will of god upon earth ? but yet they attempt to prove from the same author to the hebrews , that christs entrance into heaven , was necessary to his being a perfect high-priest ; for he was to be made higher then the heavens ; and if he were on earth , he should not be a priest ; but he was a priest after the power of an e●●lless life : neither could he , say they , be a perfect high-priest , till those words were spoken to him , thou art my son , this day have i begotten thee ; which as appears by other places , was after the resurrection : but all the sufferings he underwent in the world , were onely to qualifie him for this office in heaven ; therefore it is said , that in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren , that he might be a merciful and faithful high-priest , &c. this is the substance of what is produced by crellius and his brethren , to prove that christ did not become a perfect high-priest , till he entred into heaven : but it were worth the knowing , what they mean by a perfect high-priest ; is it that christ did then begin the office of a high-priest , and that he made no offering at all before ? no , that they dare not assert at last , but that there was no perfect sacrifice offered for sin , otherwise socinus contends , that christ did offer upon earth , and that for himself too : so that all kind of offering is not excluded by themselves , before christs entrance into heaven : but if they mean by perfect high-priest in heaven , that his office of high-priest was not consummated by what he did on earth , but that a very considerable part of the priesthood of christ was still remaining to be performed in heaven ; it is no more than we do freely acknowledge , and this is all we say is meant by those places : for the apostles design is to prove , the excellency of the priesthood of christ above the aaronical ; which he doth , not onely from the excellency of the sacrifice which he offered , above the blood of bulls and goats ; but from the excellency of the priest , who did excel the aaronical priests ; both in regard of his calling from god , which is all the apostle designs , heb. . . not at all intending to determine the time when he was made , but by whom he was made high-priest , even by him that had said , thou art my son , &c. and in regard of the excellency of the sanctuary which he entred into , which was not an earthly , but a heavenly sanctuary ; and in regard of the perpetuity of his function there , not going in once a year , as the high-priests under the law did , but there ever living to make intercession for us : now this being the apostles design , we may easily understand why he saith , that he was to be a heavenly high-priest , and if he , had been on earth , he could not have been a priest : the meaning of which is only this , that if christs office had ended in what he did on earth , he would not have had such an excellency as he was speaking of ; for then he had ceased to be at all such a high-priest , having no holy of holies to go into , which should as much transcend the earthly sanctuary , as his sacrifice did the blood of bulls and goats : therefore in correspondency to that priesthood , which he did so far excell in all the parts of it , he was not to end his priesthood meerly with the blood which was shed for a sacrifice , but he was to carry it into heaven , and present it before god , and to be a perpetual intercessor in the behalf of his people : and so was in regard of the perpetuity of his office , a priest after the law of an endless life : but lest the people should imagine , that so great and excellent a high-priest , being so far exalted above them , should have no sense or compassion upon the infirmities of his people , therefore to encourage them to adhere to him , he tells them , that he was made like to his brethren ; and therefore they need not doubt , but by the sense which he had of the infirmities of humane nature , he will have pity on the weaknesses of his people ; which is all the apostle means by those expressions . so that none of these places do destroy the priesthood of christ on earth , but only assert the excellency , and the continuance of it in heaven : which latter , we are as far from denying , as our adversaries are from granting the former . and thus much may suffice for the second thing , to prove the death of christ a proper sacrifice for sin ; viz. the oblation which christ made of himself to god by it . chap. vi. that the effects of proper expiatory sacrifices belong to the death of christ , which either respect the sin or the person . of the true notion of expiation of sin , as attributed to sacrifices . of the importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as applied to them . socinus his proper sense of it examined . crellius his objections answered . the jews notion of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the sacrifices not bare conditions of pardon , nor expiated meerly as a slight part of obedience . gods expiating sin , destroys not expiation by sacrifice . the importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , relating to sacrifices . expiation attributed to the sacrifice of christ , in the same sense that it was to other sacrifices : and from thence , and the places of scripture which mention it , proved not to be meerly declarative . if it had been so , it had more properly belonged to his resurrection than his death . the death of christ not taken metonymically for all the consequents of it ; because of the peculiar effects of the death of christ in scripture , and because expiation is attributed to him antecedently to his entrance into heaven . no distinction in scripture of the effects of christs entrance into heaven from his sitting at the right hand of god. the effects of an expiatory sacrifice , respecting the person , belong to the death of christ , which are atonement & reconciliation . of the signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the reconciliation by christs death , doth not meerly respect us ; but god ; why the latter less used in the new testament . a twofold reconciliation with god mentioned in scripture . crellius his evasion answered . the objections from gods being reconciled in the sending his son , and the inconsistency of the freeness of grace with the doctrine of satisfaction answered , and the whole concluded . the last thing to prove the death of christ a proper expiatory sacrifice , is , that the effects of a proper sacrifice for sin are attributed to it . which do either respect the sins committed , and are then call'd expiation and remission , or the persons who were guilty of them , as they stand obnoxious to the displeasure of god , and so the effect of them is atonement and reconciliation . now these we shall prove do most properly and immediately refer to the death of christ , and are attributed to it , as the procuring cause of them ; and not as a bare condition of christs entrance into heaven , or as comprehending in it the consequents of it . i begin with the expiation and remission of sins ; as to which socinus doth acknowledge , that the great correspondency doth lie between christs and the legal sacrifices . we are therefore to enquire : . what respect the expiation of sins had to the sacrifices under the law. . in what sense the expiation of sins is attributed to the sacrifice of christ : for the due explication of the respect which expiation of sins had to the legal sacrifices , we are to consider in what sense expiation is understood , and in what respect it is attributed to them . for this we are to enquire into the importance of the several phrases it is set forth by , which are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the old testament , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the new ; all which are acknowledged by our adversaries to have a peculiar respect to the expiation made by a sacrifice . we shall begin with the former , because crellius objects this against grotius , that he imployed his greatest diligence in the explication of the greek and latin words for expiation of sin , and was contented only to say , that the hebrew words would bear the same signification : whereas , saith he , he ought to have proved , that the hebrew words do require that sense which he takes them in . but by crellius his leave , grotius took the best course was to be taken in words , whose signification is so obscure as those are in the hebrew language . for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being so very rarely used in scripture in that which socinus , and crellius contend to be the proper and natural signification of it ; viz. to hide or cover , and so frequently in the sense of expiation , what better way could be taken for determining the sense of it , as applied to sacrifices , than by insisting upon those words which are used in the new-testament , to the very same purpose that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used in the old ? for they cannot pretend that which they say is the most proper sense , can be applied to this subject ; viz. to cover with pitch , or a bituminous matter , which is call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gen. . . therefore it must of necessity be taken in another sense here . but socinus contends , that it ought to be taken in a sense most agreeable to that , which is , saith he , that the expiation of sin be nothing else , but the covering of it , by gods grace and benignity . thence , saith he , david saith , blessed is the man whose iniquity is covered . but how can this prove , that the proper signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as applied to sin , is covering by gods grace , when neither the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is here used , nor is there any respect at all mentioned of an expiation by sacrifice , which is the thing we are discoursing of ? and is the covering of sin such an easie and intelligible phrase , that this should be made choice of to explain the difficulty of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by ? what is it that they would have us understand by the covering sin ? surely not to make it stronger and more lasting , as the ark was covered , with that bituminous matter for that end , and yet this would come the nearest to the proper sense of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so that from their own interpretation it appears , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as applied to the expiation of sin by sacrifices , cannot be taken so much as in allusion to that other sense ; for their sense of expiation , is either by the destruction of sin , or deliverance of the sinner from the punishment of it , but what resemblance is there between the covering of a thing , in order to its preservation , and the making it not to be , or at least destroying all the power of it ? but supposing we should grant that it hath some allusion to the sense of covering , why must it necessarily be supposed to be done by the meer grace of god , as excluding all antecedent causes which should move to it ? would not the propriety of the sense remain as well , supposing a moving cause , as excluding it ? what should hinder , but that god may be said as well to cover sin upon a sacrifice as to forgive it , and this is very frequently used upon a sacrifice , that the sin shall be forgiven ? but yet themselves acknowledge , that the sacrifices were conditions required in order to expiation ; if then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath an immediate respect to gods immediate favour and benignity , how comes it to be used where a condition is necessarily supposed in order to it ? had it not been more agreeable to this benignity of god to have pardon'd sin without requiring any sacrifice for it , than so strictly insisting upon the offering up sacrifice in order to it , and then declaring that the sin is expiated , and it should be forgiven ? from hence we see that there is no necessity why 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should be used as applyed to sacrifices in a sense most agreeable to that of covering with pitch , nor that it is not possible it should have such a sense when applyed to sins ; and withall that it is very consistent with an antecedent condition to it , and therefore can by no means destroy satisfaction . yes , saith crellius , it doth , for expiation is explained in the law by non-imputation , deut. . . be mercifull , o lord unto thy people israel whom thou hast redeemed , and lay not innocent blood unto thy people of israels charge ; and the blood shall be forgiven them . but not to impute , saith he , and to receive true and full satisfaction overthrow each other : and so expiation being the same with that , will overthrow it too . to this i answer , . i grant that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is here used both as applyed to god , and to the sin , and that the sense of it is used as to the people , when the prayer is , that god would not lay it to their charge , which is the same with expiating of it . . we are to consider , what the foundation of this prayer was , viz. the slaying of the heifer for expiation of the uncertain murder ; and when the elders had washed their hands over the head of the heifer , then they were to protest their own innocency , and to use this prayer . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 expiate thy people israel , &c. i. e. accept of this sacrifice as an expiation for them , and so charge not on them the innocent blood , &c. and upon doing of this it is said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the blood shall be expiated , i. e. as the vulgar latin explain it , the guilt of the blood shall be taken from them . but how then should the expiating sin upon a sacrifice slain in order thereto , destroy that satisfaction which we assert by the blood of christ being shed in order to the expiation of our sins ? nay , it much rather sheweth the consistency and agreeableness of these one with another . for we have before proved , that the sacrifice here did expiate the sin by a substitution , and bearing the guilt which could not have been expiated without it . but crellius further urgeth , that god himself is here said to expiate , and therefore to expiate cannot signifie to atone or satisfie ; in which sense christ may be said to expiate too , not by atoning or satisfying , but by not imputing sins , or taking away the punishment of them by his power . to which we need no other answer than what crellius himself elsewhere gives , viz. that socinus never denyes but that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signifie to appease or atone ; which is most evidently proved from the place mention'd by grotius , gen. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 expiabo faciem ejus in munere , saith the interlineary version , placabo illum muneribus , the vulg. lat. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the lxx . and all the circumstances of the place make it appear to be meant in the proper sense of appeasing the anger of a person by something which may move him to shew favour . and if crellius will yield this to be the sense of expiation as applyed to the sacrifice of christ , he need not quarrel with the word satisfaction . but why should he rather attribute that sense of expiation to christ , which is alone given to god , wherein the expiation is attributed to him that receives the sacrifice : rather than to him that offers the sacrifice in order to the atonement of another ? since it is acknowledged that christ did offer a sacrifice ; and therefore there can be no reason why that sense of expiation should not belong to him , which was most peculiar to that ; which we shall now shew to be of the same kind with what is here mentioned , viz. an appeasing by a gift offered up to god. so we find the word used to the same sense , sam. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and wherewith shall i make the atonement , i. e. wherewith shall i satisfie you for all the wrong which saul hath done unto you ? and we see afterwards it was by the death of sauls sons . in which place it cannot be denyed but that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not only signifies to appease , but such a kind of satisfaction as is by the death of some for the faults of others ; and so comes home , not only to the importance of the expiation belonging to a sacrifice in general ; but to such a kind of expiation as is by the suffering of some in the place of others . which though it be more clear and distinct , where one man suffers for others , yet this was sufficiently represented in the sacrifices under the law , in which we have already proved that there was a substitution of them in the place of the offenders . and in this sense the jews themselves do understand 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 viz. such an expiation as is made by the substitution of one in the place of another . of which many instances are collected by buxtorf , wherein 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is taken by the rabbinical writers for such an expiation , whereby one was to undergo a punishment in the place of another . so when in the title sanhedrin the people say to the high-priest 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 simus nos expiatio tua , let us be for an expiation for you , the glosse explains it thus , hoc est , in nobis fiat expiatio tua , nosque subeamus tuo loco quicquid tibi evenire debet . and when they tell us how children ought to honour their parents after their death , they say when they recite any memorable speech of their fathers , they are not barely to say , my father said so : but my lord and father said so , would i had been the expiation of his death : i. e. as they explain it themselves , would i had undergone what he did , and they give this general rule , where ever it is said , behold i am for expiation , it is to be understood , behold i am in the place of another to bear his iniquities . so that this signifies the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or a price of redemption for others . hence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is taken for a price of redemption of the life of another , and rendred by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , exod. . . — . . numb . . , . where we render it satisfaction , and by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , psal. . . and thereby we fully understand , what our saviour meant when he said , that he gave his soul , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a ransome for many , and to this day the jews call the cock which they kill for expiation on the day of atonement , by the name of cappara ; and when they beat the cock against their heads thrice , they every time use words to this purpose , let this cock be an exchange for me , let him be in my room , and be made an expiation for me ; let death come to him , but to me and all israel life and happiness . i insist on these things , only to let us understand , that the jews never understood 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the sense our adversaries contend for , when applied to an expiatory sacrifice , but as implying a commutation , and a substitution of one in the place of another , so as by the punishment of that , the other in whose room he suffers , may obtain deliverance . which is the sense we plead for . but the utmost which socinus and crellius will allow to the sacrifices in order to expiation , is barely this , that the offering of them is to be considered as a meer condition ( that hath no other respect to the expiation of sins , than the paring a mans nails would have had , if god had required it ) upon which slight obedience , the pardon of some light sins might be obtained . but can any one imagine , that this was all that was designed by the sacrifices of old , who considers the antiquity and universality of them in the world in those elder times before the law , the great severity by which they were required under the law , the punctual prescriptions that were made in all circumstances for them , the vast and almost inestimable expence the people were at about them , but above all , the reason that god himself assigns in the law , that the blood was given for expiation , because it was the life , and the correspondency so clearly expressed in the new testament , between the sacrifice of christ and those levitical sacrifices ? can any one , i say , imagine upon these considerations , that the sacrifices had no other respect to the expiation of sin , than as they were a slight testimony of their obedience to god ? why were not an inward sorrow for sin , and tears and prayers rather made the only conditions of expiation , than such a burthensome and chargeable service imposed upon them , which at last signified nothing , but that a command being supposed , they would have sinned if they had broken it ? but upon our supposition , a reasonable account is given of all the expiatory sacrifices ; viz. that god would have them see , how highly he esteemed his laws , because an expiation was not to be made for the breach of them , but by the sacrificing of the life of some creature which he should appoint in stead of the death of the offender ; and if the breach of those laws which he had given them must require such an expiation , what might they then think would the sins of the whole world do , which must be expiated by a sacrifice infinitely greater than all those put together were ; viz. the death and sufferings of the son of god for the sins of men ? but if the offering sacrifice had been a bare condition required of the person who committed the fault , in order to expiation ; why is it never said , that the person who offered it , did expiate his own fault thereby ? for that had been the most proper sense ; for if the expiation did depend on the offering the sacrifice , as on the condition of it , then the performing the condition , gave him an immediate right to the benefit of the promise . if it be said , that his own act was , not only necessary in bringing the sacrifice , but the priests also in offering up the blood : this will not make it at all the more reasonable ; because the pardon of sin should not only depend upon a● 〈◊〉 mans own act , but upon the act of another , which he could not in reason be accountable for , if he miscarried in it . if the priest should refuse to do his part , or be unfit to do it , or break some law in the doing of it , how hard would it seem , that a mans sins could not be expiated , when he had done all that lay in his own power in order to the expiation of them , but that another person , whose actions he had no command over , neglected the doing his duty ? so that if the sacrifice had no other influence on expiation , but as a part of obedience , in all reason the expiation ●hould have depended on no other conditions but such as were under the power of him , whose sins were to be expiated by 〈◊〉 . but crellius urgeth against our sense of expiation , that if it were by substitution , ●hen the expiation would be most properly attri●●ted to the sacrifices themselves ; whereas it is ●…ly said , that by the sacrifices the expiation is ●btained , but that god or the priest do expiate ; ●…d to god it belongs properly , because he takes ●ay the guilt and punishment of sin ; which is , ●aith he , all meant by expiation ; to the priest ●…ly consequently , as doing what god requires 〈◊〉 order to it ; and to the sacrifices only as the ●●nditions by which it was obtained . but if the expiation doth properly belong to god , and implies no more than bare pardon , it is hard to conceive that it should have any necessary relation to the blood of the sacrifice : but the apostle to the hebrews tells us , that remission had a necessary respect to the shedding of blood , so that without that there was no remission . how improperly doth the apostle discourse throughout that chapter , wherein he speaks so much concerning the blood of the sacrifices purifying , and in correspondency to that , the blood of christ purging our consciences ; and that all things under the law , were purified with blood ; had all this no other signification , but that this was a bare condition that had no other importance , but as a meer act of obedience when god had required it ? why doth not the apostle rather say , without gods favour there is no remission , than without the sheding of blood ; if all the expiation did properly belong to that , and only very remotely to the blood of the sacrifice ? what imaginable necessity was there , that christ must shed his blood in order to the expiation of our sins , if all that blood of the legal sacrifices did signifie no more than a bare condition of pardon , though a slight part of obedience in it self ? why must christ lay down his life in correspondency to these levitical sacrifices ? for that was surely no slight part of his obedience . why might not this condition have been dispensed with in him , since our adversaries say , that in it self it hath no proper efficacy on the expiation of sin ? and doth not this speak the greatest repugnancy to the kindness and grace of god in the gospel , that he would not dispense with the ignominious death of his son , although he knew it could have no influence of it self on the expiation of the sins of the world ? but upon this supposition , that the blood of sacrifices under the law had no proper influence upon expiation , the apostles discourse proceeds upon weak and insufficient grounds . for what necessity in the thing was there , because the blood of the sacrifices was made a condition of pardon under the law , therefore the blood of christ must be so now ; although in it self it hath no proper efficacy for that end ? but the apostles words and way of argumentation doth imply , that there was a peculiar efficacy both in the one and the other , in order to expiation ; although a far greater in the blood of christ , than could be in the other ; as the thing typified , ought to exceed that which was the representation of it . from hence we see , that the apostle attributes what expiation there was under the law , not immediately to god , as belonging properly to him , but to the blood of bulls and goats , and the ashes of an heifer , sprinkling the unclean . which he had very great reason to do , since god expresly saith to the jews , that the blood was given them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ad expiandum , to expiate for their souls , for the blood 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shall expiate the soul. than which words , nothing could have been more plainly said to overthrow crellius his assertion , that expiation is not properly or chiefly attributed to the sacrifices , but primarily to god , and consequentially to the priest : who is never said to expiate , but by the sacrifice which he offered , so that his office was barely ministerial in it . but from this we may easily understand , in what sense god is said to expiate sins , where it hath respect to a sacrifice ( which is that we are now discoursing of , and not in any larger or more improper use of the word ) for since god himself hath declared , that the blood was given for expiation , the expiation which belongs to god , must imply his acceptance of it for that end , for which it was offered . for the execution or discharge of the punishment belonging to him , he may be said in that sense to expiate , because it is only in his power to discharge the sinner from that obligation to punishment he lies under by his sins . and we do not say , that where expiating is attributed to him that accepts the atonement , that it doth imply his undergoing any punishment which is impossible to suppose ; but that where it is attributed to a sacrifice , as the means of atonement , there we say it doth not imply a bare condition , but such a substitution of one in the place of another , that on the account of that , the fault of the offender himself is expiated thereby . and to this sense the other word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth very well agree ; for socinus and crellius cannot deny , but that gen. . . it properly signifies luere , or to bear punishment ; although they say , it no where else signifies so , and the reason is , because it is applied to the altar , and such other things , which are not capable of it ; but doth it hence follow , that it should not retain that signification where the matter will bear it , as in the case of sacrifices . and although it be frequently rendred by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , yet that will be no prejudice to the sense we plead for in respect of sacrifices , because those words when used concerning them , do signifie expiation too . grotius proves , that they do from their own nature and constant use in greek authors , not only signifie an antecedency of order , but a peculiar efficacy in order to expiation . thence expiatory sacrifices among the greeks were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , frequently in homer , applied to sacrifices , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in plutarch , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used in the same sense ; an expiatory sacrifice in herodotus is call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and to the same purpose it is used in hermogenes , plato and plutarch : as among the latins , placare , purgare , purificare , conciliare , lustrare in the same sense , and piare when used in sacrifices , he proves to signifie luere per successionem rei alterius in locum poenae debitae . thence piaculum used for an expiatory sacrifice : and expiare is to appease by such a sacrifice , so cereris numen expiare is used in cicero ; filium expiare in livy . so that all these sacrifices among them , were supposed still to pertain to the atoning the deity , and obtaining a remission of sins committed by them . and from hence ( because where there was a greater equality and neerness , there might be the greater efficacy of the sacrifice for expiation ) came the custom of sacrificing men , which grotius at large shews to have almost universally obtained before the coming of christ. we are now to consider what crellius answers to this ; the substance of which lies in these two things , . he denies not but that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do in their proper use in the greek tongue signifie the purging of guilt , and the aversion of the wrath of god and punishment , but that those and such other words are attributed to sacrifices , because those were supposed to be the effects of them among the heathens ; but the attributing such effects to them , did arise from their superstition , whereby greater things were attributed to sacrifices , than god would have given to them , either before or under the law. . he denies not , but that those words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being used by the author to the hebrews more than once with respect to the sacrifices and priesthood of christ , were taken in the same sense in which they are used in the greek tongue ; viz. for the purging of guilt , and the aversion of the wrath of god , and the punishment consequent upon it : but all that he contends for is , that there is a difference in the manner of effecting it , which he acknowledges the words themselves do not imply ; and the reasons he gives for it are , that the other were proper , but christs an improper sacrifice ; and that the other sacrifices were offered by men to god , but the sacrifice of christ was given by god to men , and therefore he must be supposed to be reconciled before . from whence he would at least have other senses of these words joyned together with the former ; viz. either for purging away the filth of sin , or for a delaration of a deliverance from guilt and punishment , in imitation of the idiome of the hebrew , in which many words are used in the new testament . from hence it follows , that crellius doth yield the main cause , if it appear , that christ did offer up an expiatory sacrifice to god in his death , for then he grants that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being applied to the sacrifice of christ , are to be taken for the purging away of guilt , and the aversion of the wrath of god , and the punishment of sin . and it is to no purpose to say , that it is not a proper sacrifice , for if the effects of a proper sacrifice do belong to it , that proves that it is so ; for these words being acknowledged to be applied to the sacrifice of christ by the author to the hebrews , what could more evince that christs was a proper sacrifice , then that those things are attributed to it , which by the consent of all nations , are said to belong to proper sacrifices , and that in the very same sense in which they are used by those who understood them in the most proper sense . and what reason could crellius have to say , that it was only the superstition of the heathens , which made them attribute such effects to sacrifices ; when himself acknowledges that the very same sense doth belong to the sacrifice of christ under that notion ? and as to the jews we have already proved that the sense of expiation among them was by vertue of the law to be taken in as proper a sense as among the heathens , for the purging of guilt , and the aversion of the wrath of god. and why should crellius deny that effect of the sacrifice of christ as to the atonement of god , because gods love was seen in giving him who was to offer the sacrifice ? since that effect is attributed to those sacrifices under the law which god himself appointed to be offer'd , and shewed his great kindness to the people in the institution of such a way , whereby their sins might be expiated , and they deliver'd from the punishment of them . but of the consistency of these two , i shall speak more afterwards , in the effect of the sacrifices as relating to persons . we now come to consider in what sense the expiation of sins is in scripture attributed to the sacrifice of christ , and therein i shall prove these two things . . that the expiation is attributed to the sacrifice of christ in the same sense that is attributed to other sacrifices , and as the words in themselves do signifie . . that what is so attributed doth belong to the sacrifice of christ in his death , antecedent to his entrance into heaven . . that the expiation is to be taken in a proper sense , when it is attributed to the sacrifice of christ. crellius tells us , the controversie is not about the thing , viz. whether expiation in the sense we take it in for purging away guilt , and aversion of the wrath of god , doth belong to the sacrifice of christ , for he acknowledges it doth ; but all the question is about the manner of it : which in the next section he thus explains : there are three senses in which christ may be said to expiate sins ; either by begetting faith in us , whereby we are drawn off from the practice of sin , in which sense , he saith , it is a remoter antecedent to it ; or as it relates to the expiation by actual deliverance from punishment , so he saith , it is an immediate antecedent to it ; or as he declares that they are expiated , but this , he saith , doth not so properly relate to christ as a sacrifice , but as a priest. but never a one of these senses comes near to that which crellius grants to be the proper importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as applyed to a sacrifice , viz. the purging away guilt , and the aversion of the wrath of god , and punishment , not any way , but by the means of the sacrifice offer'd . for in the legal sacrifices nothing can be more plain than that the expiation was to be by the sacrifice offer'd for atonement : supposing then that in some other way ( which could be by no means proper to those sacrifices ) christ may be said to expiate sins , what doth this prove that there was an expiation belonging to his sacrifice agreeable to the sacrifices of old ? but as i urged before in the case of christs being high-priest , that by their assertions the jews might utterly deny the force of any argument used by the author to the hebrews to prove it : so i say as to the expiation by christs sacrifice , that it hath no analogy or correspondency at all with any sacrifice that was ever offer'd for the expiation of sins . for by that they always understood something which was immediately offer'd to god for that end , upon which they obtained remission of sins ; but here is nothing answerable to it in their sense of christs sacrifice ; for here is no oblation at all made unto god for this end ; all the efficacy of the sacrifice of christ , in order to expiation doth wholly and immediately respect us ; so that if it be a proper sacrifice to any , it must be a sacrifice to us , and not to god : for a sacrifice is always said to be made to him whom it doth immediately respect ; but christ in the planting faith , in actual deliverance , in declaring to us this deliverance , doth wholly respect us , and therefore his sacrifice must be made to men , and not to god. which is in it self a gross absurdity , and repugnant to the nature and design of sacrifices from the first institution of them ; which were always esteemed such immediate parts of divine worship , that they ought to respect none else but god , as the object to which they were directed , though for the benefit and advantage of mankinde . as well then might christ be said to pray for us , and by that no more be meant but that he doth teach us to understand our duty ; as be made an expiatory sacrifice for us , and all the effect of it only respect us and not god. and this is so far from adding to the perfection of christs sacrifice above the legal ( which is the thing pleaded by crellius ) that it destroyes the very nature of a sacrifice , if such a way of expiation be attributed to it ( which though conceived to be more excellent in it self ) yet is wholly incongruous to the end and design of a sacrifice for expiation . and the excellency of the manner of expiation ought to be in the same kind , and not quite of another nature ; for , will any one say , that a general of an army hath a more excellent conduct than all that went before him , because he can make finer speeches ; or that the assomanaean family discharged the office of priesthood best , because they had a greater power over the people ; or that nero was the most excellent emperour of rome because he excelled the rest in musick and poetr●… by which we see that to assert an excellency of one above another , we must not go to another kind , but shew its excellency in that wherein the comparison lyes : so that this doth not prove the excellency of the sacrifice of christ , because he hath a greater power to perswade , deliver and govern , than any sacrifice under the law ; for these are things quite of another nature from the consideration of a sacrifice : but therein the excellency of a sacrifice is to be demonstrated , that it excells all other in the proper end and design of a sacrifice , i. e. if it be more effectual towards god for obtaining the expiation of sin ; which was alwayes thought to be the proper end of all sacrifices for expiation . although then christ may be allowed to excell all other sacrifices in all imaginable respects but that which is the proper intention of a sacrifice ; it may prove far greater excellency in christ , but it doth withall prove a greater imperfection in his sacrifice , if it fail in that which is the proper end of it . so that if we should grant that the expiation attributed to christs sacrifice signified no more than reclaiming men from their sins , or their deliverance by his power , or a declara●●●n of gods decree to pardon , this may prove that there are better arguments to believe the remission of sins now under the gospel ; but they do not in the least prove that christ is to be considered as a sacrifice ; much less that he doth far excell in the notion of an expiatory sacrifice all those which were offered up to god for that end under the law. but we must now further consider , whether this be all attributed to christ in order to expiation in scripture ; i. e. whether those words which of themselves do imply the aversion of the wrath of god , when used concerning other sacrifices , when applied to the sacrifice of christ , do only imply the begetting faith in us , or a declaration of pardon . the words which are used to this purpose , are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which are all applied to the blood of christ , and the dispute is , whether they signifie no more but a declaration of pardon , or a means to beget faith in us . the first words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 crellius acknowledgeth do frequently signifie deliverance from guilt and punishment ; but , he saith , they may likewise signifie a declaration of that deliverance , as decreed by god , or a purging from the sins themselves , or from the custom of sinning . so that by crellius his own confession , the sense we contend for is most proper and usual , the other are more remote , and onely possible ; why then should we forsake the former sense , which doth most perfectly agree to the nature of a sacrifice , which the other senses have no such relation to , as that hath ? for these being the words made use of in the new testament , to imply the force and efficacy of a sacrifice , why should they not be understood in the same sense which the hebrew words were taken in , when they are applied to the sacrifices under the law ? we are not enquiring into all possible senses of words , but into the most natural and agreeable to the scope of them that use them : and that we shall make it appear to be the same , we plead for in the places in dispute between us ; as , john . . the blood of jesus christ his son , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , purgeth us from all sin , heb. . , . if the blood of bulls , and of goats , and the ashes of an heifer , sprinkling the unclean , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh : how much more shall the blood of christ purge your consciences from dead works , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , heb. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when he had by himself purged our sins . so , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are used with a respect to the blood of christ , heb. . . apocalip . . . and because remission of sin was looked on as the consequent of expiation by sacrifice under the law ; therefore that is likewise attributed to the blood of christ , matth. . . this is the blood of the new testament which was shed for many , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the remission of sins , eph. . . in whom we have redemption through his blood , the remission of sins , and to the same purpose , coloss. . . and from hence we are said to be justified by his blood , rom. . . and christ is said to be a propitiation through faith in his blood , rom. . . the substance of all that crellius replies to these places is , that those words which do properly signifie the thing it self , may very conveniently be taken only for the declaration of it , when the performance of the thing doth follow by virtue of that declaration : which then happens , when the declaration is made of the thing decreed by another , and that in the name and by the command of him who did decree it . and in this sense , christ by his blood may be said to deliver us from the punishment of our sins , by declaring or testifying to us the will and decree of god for that purpose . but this answer is by no means sufficient , upon these considerations ; . because it doth not reach the proper and natural sense of the words , as crellius himself confesseth ; and yet he assigns no reason at all , why we ought to depart from it , unless the bare possibility of another meaning be sufficient . but how had it been possible for the efficacy of the blood of christ for purging away the guilt of our sins , to have been expressed in clearer and plainer terms than these , which are acknowledged of themselves to signifie as much as we assert ? if the most proper expressions for this purpose , are not of force enough to perswade our adversaries , none else could ever do it ; so that it had been impossible for our doctrine to have been delivered in such terms , but they would have found out ways to evade the meaning of them . it seems very strange , that so great an efficacy should not only once or twice , but so frequently be attributed to the blood of christ for expiation of sin , if nothing else were meant by it , but that christ by his death did only declare that god was willing to pardon sin ? if there were danger in understanding the words in their proper sense , why are they so frequently used to this purpose ? why are there no other places of scripture that might help to undeceive us , and tell us plainly , that christ dyed only to declare his fathers will ? but what ever other words might signifie , this was the only true meaning of them . but what miserable shifts are these , when men are forced to put off such texts which are confessed to express our doctrine , only by saying that they may be otherwise understood ? which destroys all kind of certainty in words ; which by reason of the various use of them , may be interpreted to so many several senses , that if this liberty be allowed , upon no other pretence , but that another meaning is possible , men will never agree about the intention of any person in speaking . for upon the same reason , if it had been said , that christ declared by his death gods readiness to pardon , it might have been interpreted , that the blood of christ was therefore the declaration of gods readiness to pardon , because it was the consideration upon which god would do it : so that if the words had been as express for them , as they are now against them , according to their way of answering places , they would have been reconcileable to our opinion . . the scripture in these expressions , doth attribute something peculiar to the blood of christ ; but if all that were meant by it were no more , than the declaring gods will to pardon , this could in no sense be said to be peculiar to it . for this was the design of the doctrine of christ , and all his miracles were wrought to confirm the truth of that part of his doctrine , which concerned remission of sins as well as any other : but how absurd would it have been to say , that the miracles of christ purge us from all sin , that through christ healing the sick , raising the dead , &c. we have redemption , even the forgiveness of sins , which are attributed to the blood of christ ? but if in no other respect , than as a testimony to the truth of the doctrine of remission of sins , they were equally applicable to one as to the other . besides , if this had been all intended in these expressions , they were the most incongruously applied to the blood of christ ; nothing seeming more repugnant to the doctrine of the remission of sins , which was declared by it , than that very thing by which it was declared , if no more were intended by it : for how unsuitable a way was it to declare the pardon of the guilty persons , by such severities used towards the most innocent ! who could believe , that god should declare his willingness to pardon others , by the death of his own son ; unless that death of his be considered as the meritorious cause for procuring it ? and in that sense we acknowledge , that the death of christ was a declaration of gods will and decree to pardon , but not meerly as it gave testimony to the truth of his doctrine ( for in that sense the blood of the apostles and martyrs might be said to purge us from sin , as well as the blood of christ ) but because it was the consideration upon which god had decreed to pardon . and so as the acceptance of the condition required , or the price paid , may be said to declare or manifest , the intention of a person to release or deliver a captive : so gods acceptance of what christ did suffer for our sakes , may be said to declare his readiness to pardon us upon his account . but then this declaration doth not belong properly to the act of christ in suffering ; but to the act of god in accepting : and it can be no other ways known , than gods acceptance is known ; which was not by the sufferings , but by the resurrection of christ. and therefore the declaring gods will and decree to pardon , doth properly belong to that : and if that had been all which the scripture had meant , by purging of sin by the blood of christ , it had been very incongruously applied to that , but most properly to his resurrection . but these phrases being never attributed to that which most properly might be said to declare the will of god ; and being peculiarly attributed to the death of christ , which cannot be said properly to do it ; nothing can be more plain , than that these expressions ought to be taken in that which is confessed to be their proper sense ; viz. that expiation of sin , which doth belong to the death of christ , as a sacrifice for the sins of the world . but yet socinus and crellius have another subterfuge . ( for therein lies their great art , in seeking rather by any means to escape their enemies , than to overcome them . ) for being sensible , that the main scope and design of the scripture is against them , they seldom , and but very weakly assault : but shew all their subtilty in avoiding by all imaginable arts , the force of what is brought against them . and the scripture being so plain in attributing such great effects to the death of christ , when no other answer will serve turn , then they tell us , that the death of christ is taken metonymically for all the consequents of his death ; viz. his resurrection , exaltation , and the power and authority which he hath at the right hand of his father . but how is it possible to convince those , who by death , can understand life ; by sufferings , can mean glory ; and by the shedding of blood , sitting at the right hand of god ? and that the scripture is very far from giving any countenance to these bold interpretations , will appear by these considerations ; . because the effect of expiation of our sins , is attributed to the death of christ , as distinct from his resurrection ; viz. our reconciliation with god , rom. . . for if when we were enemies , we were reconciled to god by the death of his son ; much more being reconciled , we shall be saved by his life . to which crellius answers , that the apostle doth not speak of the death of christ alone , or as it is considered distinct from the consequences of it ; but only that our reconciliation was effected● by the death of christ intervening . but nothing can be more evident to any one , who considers the design of the apostles discourse , than that he speaks of what was peculiar to the death of christ : for therefore it is said , that christ dyed for the ungodly . for scarcely for a righteous man will one dye : but god commendeth his love towards us , in that while we were yet sinners , christ dyed for us . much more then being now justified by his blood , we shall be saved through him ; upon which those words follow , for if when we were enemies , we were reconciled to god by the death of his son , &c. the reconciliation here mentioned , is attributed to the death of christ in the same sense , that it is mentioned before ; but there it is not mentioned as a. bare condition intervening in order to some thing farther ; but as the great instance of the love both of god and christ ; of god , in sending his son ; of christ , in laying down his life for sinners , in order to their being justified by his blood . but where is it that st. paul saith , that the death of christ had no other influence on the expiation of our sins , but as a bare condition intervening in order to that power and authority whereby he should expiate sins ? what makes him attribute so much to the death of christ , if all the benefits we enjoy depend upon the consequences of it ; and no otherwise upon that , than meerly as a preparation for it ? what peculiar emphasis were there in christs dying for sinners , and for the ungodly ; unless his death had a particular relation to the expiation of their sins ? why are men said to be justified by his blood , and not much rather by his glorious resurrection , if the blood of christ be only considered as an antecedent to the other ? and that would have been the great demonstration of the love of god which had the most immediate influence upon our advantage : which could not have been the death in this sense , but the life and glory of christ. but nothing can be more absurd than what crellius would have to be the meaning of this place , viz. that the apostle doth not speak of the proper force of the death of christ distinct from his life ; but that two things are opposed to each other for the effecting of one of which the death of christ did intervene , but it should not intervene for the other ; viz. it did intervene for our reconciliation , but it should not for our life . for did not the death of christ equally intervene for our life as for our reconciliation ? was not our eternal deliverance the great thing designed by christ , and our reconciliation in order to that end ? what opposition then can be imagined , that it should be necessary for the death of christ to intervene in order to the one than in order to the other ? but he means , that the death of christ should not intervene any more ; what need that , when it is acknowledged by themselves , that christ dyed only for this end before , that he might have power to bestow eternal life on them that obey him ? but the main force of the apostles argument lyes in the comparison between the death of christ having respect to us as enemies in order to reconciliation , and the life of christ to us considered as reconciled ; so that if he had so much kindness for enemies , to dye for their reconciliation , we may much more presume that he now living in heaven will accomplish the end of that reconciliation , in the eternal salvation of them that obey him . by which it is apparent that he speaks of the death of christ in a notion proper to it self , having influence upon our reconciliation ; and doth not consider it metonymically as comprehending in it , the consequents of it . . because the expiation of sins is attributed to christ antecedently to the great consequents of his death , viz. his sitting at the right hand of god. heb. . . when he had by himself purged our sins , sate down on the right hand of his majesty on high . heb. . . but by his own blood he entred in once into the holy place , having obtained eternal redemption for us . to these places crellius gives a double answer . . that indefinite particles ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) being joyned with verbs of the praeterperfect tense do not alwayes require that the action expressed by them , should precede that which is designed in the verbs to which they are joyned ; but they have sometimes the force of particles of the present or imperfect tense ; which sometimes happens in particles of the praeter-perfect tense , as matth. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and several other instances produced by him : according to which manner of interpretation the sense he puts upon those words , heb. . . is , christ by the shedding of his blood entred into the holy of holies , and in so doing he found eternal redemption , or the expiation of sins . but not to dispute with crellius concerning the importance of the aorist being joyned with a verb of the praeterperfect tense , which in all reason and common acceptation doth imply the action past by him who writes the words antecedent to his writing of it , as is plain in the instances produced by crellius ; but according to his sense of christs expiation of sin , it was yet to come after christs entrance into heaven , and so it should have been more properly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , than 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; not i say to insist upon that , the apostle manifests , that he had a respect to the death of christ in the obtaining this eternal redemption , by his following discourse : for v. . he compares the blood of christ in point of efficacy for expiation of sin , with the blood of the legal sacrifices : whereas if the expiation meant by him had been found by christs oblation of himself in heaven , he would have compared christs entrance into heaven in order to it , with the entrance of the high-priest into the holy of holies , and his argument had run thus . for if the high-priest under the law did expiate sins by entring into the holy of holies ; how much more shall the son of god entring into heaven expiate the sins of mankind : but we see the apostle had no sooner mention'd the redemption obtained for us ; but he presently speaks of the efficacy of the blood of christ in order to it , and as plainly asserts the same , v. . and for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament that by means of death , for the redemption of the transgressions which were under the first testament , they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance . why doth the apostle here speak of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the expiation of sins by the means of death ; if he had so lately asserted before that the redemption or expiation was found not by his death , but by his entrance into heaven ? and withall the apostle here doth not speak of such a kind of expiation as wholly respects the future , but of sins that were under the first testament , not barely such as could not be expiated by vertue of it , but such as were committed during the time of it , although the levitical law allowed no expiation for them . and to confirm this sense , the apostle doth not go on to prove the necessity of christs entrance into heaven ; but of his dying , v. , , . but granting that he doth allude to the high-priests entring into the holy of holies , yet that was but the representation of a sacrifice already offer'd , and he could not be said to find expiation by his entrance ; but that was already found by the blood of the sacrifice , and his entrance was only to accomplish the end for which the blood was offer'd up in sacrifice . and the benefit which came to men is attributed to the sacrifice , and not to the sprinkling of the blood before the mercy-seat : and whatever effect was consequent upon his entrance into the sanctuary , was by vertue of the blood which he carried in with him , and was before shed at the altar . neither can it with any reason be said , that if the redemption were obtained by the blood of christ , there could be no need of his entrance into heaven ; since we do not make the priesthood of christ to expire at his death ; but that he is in heaven a mercifull high-priest in negotiating the affairs of his people with god , and there ever lives to make intercession for them . crellius answers , that granting the aorist being put before the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should imply such an action which was antecedent to christs sitting at the right hand of god , yet it is not there said , that the expiation of sins was made before christs entrance into heaven ; for those , saith he , are to be considered as two different things ; for a prince first enters into his palace , before he sits upon his throne . and therefore , saith he , christ may be said to have made expiation of sins before he sate down at the right hand of his father , not that it was done by his death , but by his entrance into heaven , and offering himself to god there , by which means he obtained his sitting on the right hand of the majesty on high , and thereby the full power of remission of sins , and giving eternal life . to which i answer , . that the scripture never makes such a distinction between christs entrance into heaven , and sitting at the right hand of god ; which latter implying no more but the glorious state of christ in heaven , his entrance into heaven doth imply it : for therefore god exalted him to be a prince and a saviour ; and the reason of the power and authority given him in heaven is no where attributed to his entrance into it as the means of it ; but our saviour before that tells us that all power and authority was committed to him ; and his very entrance into heaven was a part of his glory ; and given him in consideration of his sufferings ; as the apostle plainly asserts ; and he became obedient to death , even the death of the cross , wherefore god hath highly exalted him , &c. there can be then no imaginable reason to make the entrance of christ into heaven , and presenting himself to god there , a condition or means of obtaining that power and authority which is implyed in his sitting at the right hand of god. . supposing , we should look on these as distinct , there is as little reason to attribute the expiation of sin to his entrance , considered as distinct from the other : for the expiation of sins in heaven being by crellius himself confessed to be by the exercise of christs power , and this being only the means to that power , how could christ expiate sins by that power which he had not ? but of this i have spoken before , and shewed that in no sense allowed by themselves the expiation of sins can be attributed to the entrance of christ into heaven as distinct from his sitting at the right hand of god. thus much may suffice to prove , that those effects of an expiatory sacrifice , which do respect the sins committed , do properly agree to the death of christ. i now come to that which respects the person , considered as obnoxious to the wrath of god by reason of his sins ; and so the effect of an expiatory sacrifice is atonement and reconciliation . by the wrath of god , i mean , the reason which god hath from the holiness and justice of his nature , to punish sin in those who commit it : by the means of atonement and reconciliation , i mean , that in consideration of which , god is willing to release the sinner from the obligation to punishment he lies under by the law of god , and to receive him into favour , upon the terms which are declared by the doctrine of christ. and that the death of christ was such a means of atonement and reconciliation for us , i shall prove by those places of scripture which speak of it . but crellius would seem to acknowledge , that if grotius seem to contend for no more , than that christ did avert that wrath of god which men had deserved by their sins , they would willingly yield him all that he pleads for : but then he adds , that this deliverance from the wrath to come , is not by the death , but by the power of christ. so that the question is , whether the death of christ were the means of atonement and reconciliation between god and us ? and yet crellius would seem willing to yield too , that the death of christ may be said to avert the wrath of god from us , as it was a condition in order to it ; for in that sense it had no more influence upon it than his birth had : but we have already seen , that the scripture attributes much more to the death and blood of christ , in order to the expiation of sin . we do not deny , that the death of christ may be called a condition , as the performance of any thing in order to an end , may be called the condition upon which that thing is to be obtained ; but we say , that it is not a bare condition , but such a one as implies a consideration , upon which the thing is obtained , being such as answers the end of him that grants it : by which means it doth propitiate or atone him , who had before just reason to punish , but is now willing to forgive and be reconciled to them , who have so highly offended him . and in this sense we assert , that christ is said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a propitiation for our sins , john . . — . . which we take in the same sense that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is saken for the sin-offering for atonement . ezek. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they shall offer a sin-offering ; for so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there signifies : and in the same sense 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is taken , ezek. . . and the ram for atonement is call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , numb . . . and thence the high-priest when he made an atonement , is said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , maccab. . . which is of the greater consequence to us , because crellius would not have the sense either of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to be taken from the common use of the word in the greek tongue ; but from that which some call the hellenistical use of it ; viz. that which is used in the greek of the new testament , out of the lxx . and the apocryphal greek ; in both which we have found the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in a sense fully correspondent to what we plead for . but he yet urges , and takes a great deal of pains to prove , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do not always signifie to be appeased by another ; but sometimes signifies to be propitious and merciful in pardoning ; and sometimes to expiate , and then signifies the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : which if it be granted , proves nothing against us , having already proved , that those words do sig●ifie the aversion of the wrath of god by a ●●crifice , and that there is no reason to ●…cede from that signification , when they ●…e applied to the blood of christ. and ●…e do not contend , that when the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is applied to him that ●…oth forgive , it doth imply appeasing ; ●…t the effect of it , which is pardoning ; ●…ut that which we assert , is , that when 〈◊〉 is applied to a third person , or a thing ●…ade use of in order to forgiveness , then ●…e say it signifies the propitiating him that as justly displeased : so as by what was ●…one or suffered for that end , he is wil●…g to pardon what he had just reason to ●…nish . so moses is said , to make atone●ent for the people by his prayers , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , exod. . . and we ●…ay see vers. . how much god was ●●spleased before . and moses besought the ●…ord his god , and said , why doth thy wrath ●…x hot against thy people : and vers. . ●…rn from thy fierce wrath , and repent of ●…is evil against thy people : and then it is ●…id , vers. . the lord was atoned for the ●…il which he thought to do unto his people . would therefore willingly know , why ●…oses might not here properly be said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as it is said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and therefore since it i●… so very often said in the levitical law 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the accusative cas●… scarce ever put but in two cases ; ( viz when these words are applied to i●… animate things , as the altar , &c. or whe●… to god himself , implying forgiveness ) wh●… reason can we assign more probable fo●… this different construction , then that whe●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used , the verb hath a respect t●… the offended party as the accusative u● derstood ? as christ is said in the place mentioned to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whic● ought in reason to be understood as thos● words after moses his intercession , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but crellius asks , w●… then do we never read once concerning t●… priest , that he did , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but we read that he did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and god is sai●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . to this i answer . that the reason why the person pr●… pitiated , is not expressed , is , because 〈◊〉 was so much taken for granted , that th●… whole institution of sacrifices did immediately respect god , and therefore the●… was no danger of mistaking , concernin● the person who was to be atoned . . i ●…onder crellius can himself produce no ●…stance where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used ●…ith respect to the sacrifices , and the person whose offences are remitted by the atonement ; but where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath a ●elation to that , it is still joyned with a preposition relating , either to the person 〈◊〉 to the offences ; if no more were understood when it is so used , then when god ●imself is said to do it , why is not the phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as well said of the priest , as it is of god ? from whence grotius his sense of hebr. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is far more agreeable to the use of the phrase in the old testament , than that which crellius would put upon it . therefore since the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is attributed to christ , we ought to take it in the sense proper to a propitiatory sacrifice : so it is said by moses , where god is left out , but is necessarily understood , after the people had provoked god by their idolatry ; ye have sinned'a great sin : and now i will go up unto the lord , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that i may make an atonement for your sin : what way could moses be said to make this atonement , but by propitiating god ; yet his name is not there expressed , but necessarily understood . so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used in the most proper sense for appeasing the anger of a person , gen . . and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , sam. . which places have been already insisted on , in the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and that those places wherein christ is said to be a propitiation for our sins , are capable of no other sense , will appear from the consideration of christ , as a middle person between god and us ; and therefore his being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , cannot be parallel with that phrase , where god himself is said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for christ is here considered as interposing between god and us , as moses and the priests under the law did between god and the people , in order to the averting his wrath from them . and when one doth thus interpose in order to the atonement of the offended party , something is always supposed to be done or suffered by him , as the means of that atonement . as jacob supposed the present he made to his brother would propitiate him ; and david appeased the gibeonites by the death of sauls sons , both which are said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so the shedding of the blood of sacrifices before and under the law , was the means of atoning god for the sins they committed . what reason can there be then why so receiv'd a sense of atonement , both among the jews , and all other nations at that time when these words were written , must be forsaken ; and any other sense be embraced , which neither agrees with the propriety of the expression , nor with so many other places of scripture , which make the blood of christ to be a sacrifice for the expiation of sin ? neither is it only our atonement , but our reconciliation is attributed to christ too , with a respect to his death and sufferings . as in the place before insisted on ; for if when we were enemies , we were reconciled to god by the death of his son ; and more largely in the second epistle to the corinthians . and all things are of god , who hath reconciled us to himself by jesus christ , and hath given to us the ministery of reconciliation : to wit , that god was in christ reconciling the world unto himself , not imputing their trespasses unto them , and hath committed to us the word of reconciliation . for he hath made him to be sin for 〈◊〉 who knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him . and to the ephesians , and that he might reconcile both unto god in one body by his cross , having slain the enmity thereby . to the same purpose to the colossians , and having made peace through the blood of his cross , by him to reconcile all things to himself , by him i say whether they be things in heaven or in earth ; and you that were sometimes ●lienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works , yet now hath he reconciled , in the body of his flesh through death . two things the substance of crellius his answer may be reduced to concerning these places . . that it is no where said that god was reconciled to us , but that we are reconciled to god , and therefore this reconciliation doth not imply any averting of the anger of god. . that none of these places do assert any reconciliation with god antecedent to our conversion , and so that the reconciliation mention'd implies only the laying aside our enmity to god by our sins . i begin with the first of these , concerning which we are to consider not barely the phrases used in scripture , but what the nature of the thing implyes ; as to which a difference being supposed between god and man on the account of sin , no reconciliation can be imagined but what is mutual . for did man only fall out with god , and had not god just reason to be displeased with men for their apostasie from him ? if not , what made him so severely punish the first sin that ever was committed by man ? what made him punish the old world for their impieties by a deluge ? what made him leave such monuments of his anger against the sins of the world in succeeding ages ? what made him adde such severe sanctions to the laws he made to the people of the jews ? what made the most upright among them so vehemently to deprecate his wrath and displeasure upon the sense of their sins ? what makes him declare not only his hatred of the sins of men , but of the persons of those who commit them ; so far as to express the greatest abhorrency of them ? nay , what makes our adversaries themselves to say , that impiety is in its own nature hatefull to god , and stirrs him up to anger against all who commit it ? what means , i say , all this , if god be not angry with men on the account of sin ? well then ; supposing god to be averse from men by reason of their sins , shall this displeasure alwayes continue or not ; if it alwayes continues , men must certainly suffer the desert of their sins ; if it doth not alwayes continue , then god may be said to be reconciled in the same sense that an offended party is capable of being reconciled to him who hath provoked him . now there are two wayes whereby a party justly offended may be said to be reconciled to him that hath offended him . first , when he is not only willing to admit of terms of agreement , but doth declare his acceptance of the mediation of a third person , and that he is so well satisfied with what he hath done in order to it , that he appoints this to be published to the world to assure the offender , that if the breach continues , the fault wholly lyes upon himself . the second is , when the offender doth accept of the terms of agreement offer'd , and submits himself to him whom he hath provoked , and is upon that received into favour . and these two we assert must necessarily be distinguished in the reconciliation between god and us . for upon the death and sufferings of christ , god declares to the world he is so well satisfied with what christ hath done and suffer'd in order to the reconciliation between himself and us , that he now publishes remission of sins to the world upon those terms which the mediator hath declared by his own doctrine , and the apostles he sent to preach it : but because remission of sins doth not immediately follow upon the death of christ , without supposition of any act on our part , therefore the state of favour doth commence from the performance of the conditions which are required from us . so that upon the death of christ god declaring his acceptance of christs mediation , and that the obstacle did not lye upon his part ; therefore those messengers who were sent abroad into the world to perswade men to accept of these terms of agreement , do insist most upon that which was the remaining obstacle , viz. the sins of mankind , that men by laying aside them , would be now reconciled to god , since there was nothing to hinder this reconciliation , their obstinacy in sin excepted . which may be a very reasonable account why we read more frequently in the writings of the apostles , of mens duty in being reconciled to god ; the other being supposed by them as the foundation of their preaching to the world , and is insisted on by them upon that account , as is clear in that place to the corinthians , that god was in christ reconciling the world to himself , not imputing unto men their trespasses , and hath committed to us the word of reconciliation ; and therefore addes , now then we are ambassadors for christ , as though god did beseech you by us , me pray you in christs stead be ye reconciled to god : and least these words should seem dubious , he declares that the reconciliation in christ was distinct from that reconciliation he perswades them to ' for the reconciliation in christ he supposeth past . v. . all things are of god , who hath reconciled us to himself by jesus christ , and v. . he shews us how this reconciliation was wrought : for he hath made him to be sin for us who know no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him . crellius here finds it necessary to acknowledge a twofold reconciliation , but hopes to escape the force of this place by a rare distinction of the reconciliation as preached by christ , and by his apostles ; and so gods having reconciled the world to himself by jesus christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thing else but christs preaching the gospel himself , who afterwards 〈◊〉 that office to his apostles . but if such shifts as these will serve to baffle mens understandings , both they were made , and the scriptures were written to very little purpose ; for if this had been all the apostle had meant , that christ preached the same doctrine of reconciliation before them , what mighty matter had this been to have solemnly told the world , that christs apostles preached no other doctrine , but what their master had preached before ? especially if no more were meant by it , but that men should leave their sins , and be reconciled to god. but besides , why is the ministery of reconciliation , then attributed only to the apostles , and not to christ , which ought in the first place have been given to him , since the apostles did only receive it from him ? why is that ministery of reconciliation said to be , viz. that god was in christ reconciling the world to himself ? was this all the subject of the apostles preaching , to tell the world , that christ perswaded men to leave off their sins ? how comes god to reconcile the world to himself by the preaching of christ , since christ himself saith , he was not sent to preach to the world , but to the lost sheep of the house of israel ? was the world reconciled to god by the preaching of christ before they had ever heard of him ? why is god said not to impute to men their trespasses by the preaching of christ , rather than his apostles ; if the not imputing were no more than declaring gods readiness to pardon ; which was equally done by the apostles as by christ himself ? lastly , what force or dependance is there in the last words , for he made him to be sin for us , who knew no sin , &c. if all he had been speaking of before had only related to christs preaching ? how was he made sin more than the apostles , if he were only treated as a sinner upon the account of the same doctrine which they preached equally with him ? and might not men be said to be made the righteousness of god in the apostles , as well as in christ , if no more be meant , but being perswaded to be righteous , by the doctrine delivered to them ? in the two latter places , eph. . . coloss. . . &c. it is plain , that a twofold reconciliation is likewise mention'd , the one of the jews and gentiles to one another , the other of both of them to god. for nothing can be more ridiculous than the exposition of socinus , who would have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not to be joyned with the verb , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but to stand by it self , and to signifie that this reconciliation of the jews and gentiles did tend to the glory of god. and crellius , who stands out at nothing , hopes to bring off socinus here too ; by saying , that it is very common , for the end to which a thing was appointed to be expressed by a dative case following the verb ; but he might have spared his pains in proving a thing no one questions ; the shorter answer had been to have produced but one place where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ever signifies any thing but to be reconciled to god as the offended party ; or where-ever the dative of the person following the verb importing reconciliation , did signifie any thing else but the party with whom the reconciliation was to be made . as for that objection concerning things in heaven being reconciled ; that phrase doth not import such a reconciliation of the angels as of men , but that men and angels upon the reconciliation of men to god , become one body under christ , and are gathered together in him , as the apostle expresseth it , eph. . . having thus far proved , that the effects of an expiatory sacrifice do belong to the death of christ , nothing now remains but an answer to be made to two objections , which are commonly insisted on by our adversaries . the first is , that god was reconciled before he sent his son , and therefore christ could not dye to reconcile god to us . the second is , that the doctrine of satisfaction asserted by us , is inconsistent with the freeness of gods grace in the remission of sins : both which will admit of an easie solution upon the principles of the foregoing discourse . to the first i answer , that we assert nothing inconsistent with that love of god , which was discovered in sending his son into the world ; we do not say , that god hated mankind so much on the account of sin , that it was impossible he should ever admit of any terms of reconciliation with them , which is the only thing inconsistent with the greatness of gods love , in sending christ into the world ; but we adore and magnifie the infiniteness and unexpressible , greatness of his love , that notwithstanding all the contempt of the former kindness and mercies of heaven , he should be pleased to send his own son to dye for sinners , that they might be reconciled to him . and herein was the great love of god manifested , that while we were enemies and sinners , christ dyed for us , and that for this end , that we might be reconciled to god by his death . and therefore surely , not in the state of favour or reconciliation with god then . but it were worth the while , to understand what it is our adversaries mean , when they say , god was reconciled when he sent his son , and therefore he could not dye to reconcile god to us . either they mean , that god had decreed to be reconciled upon the sending his son , or that he was actually reconciled when he sent him : if he only decreed to be reconciled , that was not at all inconsistent with christs dying to reconcile god and us in pursuance of that decree : if they mean , he was actually reconciled , then there was no need for christ to dye to reconcile god and us ; but withal , actual reconciliation implies pardon of sin ; and if sin were actually pardoned before christ came , there could be no need of his coming at all , and sins would have been pardon'd before committed ; if they were not pardoned , notwithstanding that love of god , then it can imply no more , but that god was willing to be reconciled . if therefore the not-remission of sins were consistent with that love of god , by which he sent christ into the world , then notwithstanding that he was yet capable of being reconciled by his death . so that our adversaries are bound to reconcile that love of god , with not presently pardoning the sins of the world , as we are to reconcile it with the ends of the death of christ , which are asserted by us . to the other objection , concerning the inconsistency of the freeness of gods grace , with the doctrine of satisfaction . i answer , either gods grace is so free as to exclude all conditions , or not : if it be so free , as to exclude all conditions , than the highest antinomianism is the truest doctrine ; for that is the highest degree of the freeness of grace , which admits of no conditions at all . if our adversaries say , that the freeness of grace is consistent with conditions required on our part , why shall it not admit of conditions on gods part ? especially , when the condition required , tends so highly to the end of gods governing the world , in the manifestation of his hatred against sin , and the vindication of the honour of his laws by the sufferings of the son of god in our stead , as an expiatory sacrifice for our sins . there are two things to be considered in sin , the dishonor done to god , by the breach of his laws , and the injury men do to themselves by it ; now remission of sins , that respects the injury which men bring upon themselves by it ; and that is free , when the penalty is wholly forgiven , as we assert it is by the gospell to all penitent sinners : but shall not god be free to vindicate his own honor , and to declare his righteousness to the world , while he is the justifier of them that believe ? shall men in case of defamation , be bound to vindicate themselves , though they freely forgive the authors of the slander , by our adversaries own doctrine ? and must it be repugnant to gods grace , to admit of a propitiatory sacrifice , that the world may understand , that it is no such easie thing to obtain pardon of sin committed against god ; but that as often as they consider the bitter sufferings of christ , in order to the obtaining the forgiveness of our sins , that should be the greatest argument to disswade them from the practice of them ? but why should it be more inconsistent with the sacrifice of christ , for god freely to pardon sin , than it was ever presumed to be in all the sacrifices of either jews of gentiles ? who all supposed sacrifices necessary in order to atonement ; and yet thought themselves obliged to the goodness of god in the remission of their sins ? nay , we find that god himself , in the case of abimelech , appointed abraham to pray for him , in order to his pardon ; and will any one say , this was a derogation to the grace of god in his pardon ? or to the pardon of jobs friends , because job was appointed to sacrifice for them ? or to the pardon of the israelites , because god out of his kindness to them , directed them by the prophets , and appointed the means in order to it ? but although god appointed our high-priest for us , and out of his great love sent him into the world , yet his sacrifice was not what was given him , but what he freely underwent himself ; he gave us christ , but christ offered up himself a full , perfect and sufficient sacrifice , oblation and satisfaction for the sins of the world . thus , sir , i have now given you a larger account of what i then more briefly discoursed of , concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ ; and heartily wishing you a right understanding in all things , and requesting from you an impartial consideration of what i have written , i am , sir , your , &c. e. s. jan. . / , finis . books printed for henry mortlock at the white-hart in westminster-hall . a rational account of the grounds of protestant religion , being a vindication of the lord archbishop of canterburies relation of a conference , and from the pretended answer by t. c. wherein the true grounds of faith are cleared , and the false discovered ; the church of england vindicated from the imputation of the schism , and the most important controversies between us and the church of rome throughly examined . origines sacrae , or a rational account of the grounds of christian faith , as to the truth and divine authority of the scriptures , and the matters therein contained . irenicum : a weapon-salve for the churches wounds . all three by edward stillingfleet , d. d. knowledge and practice ; or a plain discourse of the chief things necessary to be known , believed and practiced , in order to salvation . by s. cradoc● . the being and well-being of a christian , in three treatises : the first , setting forth the property of the righteous . the second , the excellency of grace . the third , the nature and sweetness of fellowship with christ. by edward reyner . the moral philosophy of the stoicks , translated out of french into english. by charles cotton , esq. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e jam. . . luke . , . hv 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 de bell . jud. l. . c. . jude . tacit. an. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . xiphil . in epit. dion . in tito . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . herodian . in com●od . hist. l. . p. . v. xiphil . ad fin . commodi . niceph. l. . c. . evagr. l. . cap. . 〈◊〉 baron . tom. . a. . . hieron . in loc . gildas de excid . brit. scipio apud aug. de civ . d. l. . c. . cicer. pro flacco . hab. . . isa. . , . . zeph . , , . amos . . lact. l. . c. . rev. . . notes for div a -e king. . , , . joh. . nicol. damascen . de moribus gent. p. . ed. cragii . geta in appiano . herod . thal. v. synes . de laude calvitii , p. . tit. . . tacit. de moribus german . gal. . . eph. . . notes for div a -e luke . , . rom. . , , , , . titus . . notes for div a -e rom . . rom. . . rom. . . gal. . . rom. . . notes for div a -e mat. . . heb. . , . mark . . matth. . . v. . v. . v. . v. . v. . v. . v. , , . v. lud. viv. ad s. aug. de civit. dei , l. . c. . mat. . . mark . thess. . . thess. . . matth. . . cor. . . rev. . . heb. . . gal. . , . notes for div a -e heb. . . john . matth. . , . john . . mat. . . luk. . . mat. . . isa. . . . mat. . . luk. , . mat. . , . luk. . . mat. . . john . . mat. . . orig. c. cels. l. . p. . august . de civit. dei , l. . c. . cur ergo damnatus est ? respondit dea : corpus quidem debilitantibus tormentis s●mper oppositum est , anima aut● piorum coelesti sedi insidet . john . pet. . , , . plin. nat. hist. l. . . scalig. hist. anim . l. . §. . tull. tusculan . l. . aub. miraeus in vita lipsii p. . john . . isa. . . cor. . . quod caetera etiam foedera caeso animali aliquo sa●ciri , & sanguin● ejus confirmari solerent . cr●ll . c. grot. ad cap. . p. . v. heins . not . ad sil. p. , . pet. . . isa. . . v. . heb. . . v. . john . . . . tim. . . cor. . . ephes. . . col. . . rom. . , . rom. . . cor. . , . heb. . , . heb. . . . . mat. . . phil. . , . cor. , . rom. . . v. . v. . heb. . . notes for div a -e §. . the introduction , concerning the socinian way of interpreting scripture . joh. . . . socin . de servat . part . cap. §. . the state of the controversie in general . §. . of the difference of debts and punishments . non resipiscentibus veniam non concedere , id d●mum naturae divinae , & dec●etis ejus & propterea rectitudini & aequitati debitum est ac consentaneum . socin . de servat . l. . c. . non resipiscentes poenâ non liberare tum per se aequitati est admodum , consentaneum & positis quibusdam finibus quos deus sibi in regendis hominibus praefixit , facto necessarium . crell . c. grot. c. . §. . §. . the reason of humane punishment is the publick interest . §. . the right of divine punishment not meer dominion . crell . respons . ad grot. cap. sect . . &c. p. . soc. de servat . l. . c. . praelect . c. . §. . . the end of punishments not bare compensation as it is in debts . crell . c. grot. cap. . sect. . p. . sect. . p. . crell . c. grot. cap. . p. . sect. . p. . §. . of c●●llius his great m●stake about the end of punishments . crell . cap . sect . . sect . . p. . §. . of the nature of anger and revenge in men , and whether punishments are designed to satisfie them . crell . c. . sect . . p. . exerc. . seneca de clem. l . c. . de irâ . l. . c . de irâ . l. . c. . de irâ . l. . c. . cap. . cap. . de clem. l. . c. . de clem. l. . c. , . salust . in catilin . cicero . v. cicero de invent. . de irâ . l. . c. . non praeterita sed futura intuebitur ; nam ut plato ait , nemo prudens punit quia peccatum est , sed ne peccetur . sen. de irâ . l. . c. . lact. de ira dei , c. . cap. . sect . ● . cap. . sect . . p. . sect. . p. . sen. de ira , l. . c. . & . cap. . quibus ( sc. solatio & securitati ) addi possunt honoris ac dignitatis , per injuriam violatae , & aliquâ ratione imminutae vindiciae , ass●rtioque juris nostri . crell . cap. . sect . . p. . §. . the interest of the magistrate in punishment distinct from that of private persons . de morib . german . c. . grot. de leg . goth. in proleg . ad hist. goth. p. . lindenbrog . gloss. ad cod. leo antiq. v. freda . spelman . gloss. v. freda . bignon . not . in marculphi form . cap. . 〈◊〉 varro de l. l. lib. . jal . pollux . l. . §. . of the nature of anger in god ; the satisfaction to be made to it . c●… ll . cap. . 〈◊〉 . . p. . 〈◊〉 . . ci●r . tasc●… l. . arist. k●… 〈◊〉 . l. . c. . crell . c. . sect . . p. . crell . de 〈◊〉 relig. l. . c. . 〈◊〉 . cap. ●…l . . p. . §. . of the ends of divine punishments . crell . c. . sect . . p. . p. . ezek. . v. . . c. . . grot. de satisfact . c. . p. . ed. . grot. de ●ur● belli , &c. l. . c. . sect . . §. . the ends of divine punishments different in this and the future state . §. . the particular state of the controversie concerning the sufferings of christ for us . crell . praes . p. . rua●us in epistol . crell . cap. . sect . . cap. . sect . . cap. , , &c. cap. . sect . . §. . whether the sufferings of christ are to be considered as a punishment of sin . crell . cap. . sect . . p. . crell . cap. . sect . . &c. socin . de christo servat . l. . 〈◊〉 . . crell . cap. . sect . . socin . l. . 〈◊〉 . . crell . c. . §. . §. . the sufferings of christ proved to be a punishment from scripture . pet. . . isa. . , , , , , . cor. . . gal. . . rom. . . soc. de servat . l. . cap. . crell . cap. . sect. . psal. . . heb. . . doctissimè & elegantissi●● vatablus ut f●rè soi●t . so● . deserv . l. . c. . crell . cap. . sect. . ezekiel . . crell . cap. . sect. . §. . of the scape-goats bearing away the sins of the people . soc. l. . c. . lev. . . grot. de sat . c. . crell . c. . sect. . gen. . . gen. . . isa. . . lev. . cod. joma . tit . . lev. . . heb. . . lev. . . v. . v. . v. . crell . c. . sect. . §. . grotius his sense of pet. . . vindicated . crell . c. . §. . §. . crellius his se●… exam●n●d . soc. deserv l. . c. . crell . c. . §. . sect. ● . §. . isa. . . vindicated . crell . c. . sect . . crell . c. . sect . . crell . c. . §. . p. . soc. prael . c. . sect . . sam. . . mat. . . mark . , . luke . . epist. eccl● . p. , discuss . p. . . §. . isa. . , , . vindicated . d● servat . l. . c. . crell . c. . sect . . crell . c. . sect. . §. . whether christs death be a proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and whether that doth imply that it was a punishment of sin ? §. . gods hatred of sin could not be seen in the sufferings of christ , if they were no punishment of sin . crell . c. . p. . crell . c. . sect. . crell . c. . sect . , . §. . grotius his arguments from christs being made sin and a curse for us defined against crellius . crel . c. . §. . soc. l. . c. . gen. . . crel . c. . §. . socin . explicat . . cap. joh. v. . socin . de christo servat . l. . c. . cr●l . annot in loc . §. . the particles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being joyned to sins , and relating to susterings , do imply those sufferings to be the punishment of sin . rom. . . cor. . . pet. . . he. . . crell . c. . sect. . sect. ● . p. . socin . de servat . l. . c. . §. . the matter debated in point of reason . certum est christum innocentissimum à deo gravissimis cruciatibus , ipsaque morte fuissè affectum ; cum non in materiâ poenae absolute & per se considera● , ad●oque etiam in eâ afflictione à quâ poenae forma a●est , injuria residere à no●● dicatur . crel . c. . sect. . potuit autem id deus facere , atque adeo fecit , jure dominii , quod in christi vitam ac corpus habebat ; a●●●dente praeserti● ipsius christi consensu . id. ib. sect. . quod si ex thesi speciali facere velis generalem , ●a haec erit , injustum esse punire i●…ocentem , quacunque tandem de causâ id fiat ; non vero simplicit●r , punire quempiam ob ali●na d●lict● ; id enim concedi potest non semper esse injustum . crell . c. . sect. . cum ne illud quidem ad naturam poenae requiratur , ut is ipse , qui puniendus est , poenam reverà fuerit commeritus . id. sect. . poena quidem simpliciter in innocentem cadit , justae non cadit . crell . c. . sect. . §. . in what cases crellius grants some may be lawfully punished for the sins of others . quia deus hunc puniendo illum quoque alterum ob cujus peccati eum dicitur punire , simul punire possit , ob arctiorem quae inter ill●s intercedat conjunctionem . crell . ib. sect . . crell . p. . crell . ib. sect . . sect . . §. . crellius his arguments propounded . crell . c. . s●ct . . p. , . crell . ib. sect . . §. . that a person by his own consent may be punished beyond the desert of his own actions . grot. de satisf . c. . crell . c. . sect . . p. . §. . objections answered . immerito quenquam punire est injustè punire . crell . p. . §. . the instances of scripture considered . exod. . . alph. à castro de just â haeret . punit . l. . c. . gen. . . sam. . . sam. . . kings . v. . to v. vers. . vers. . chron. . . sam. . , . §. . e●●k . . exp●ain●d e●●k . . , . jer. . , . ezek. . . matth. . . ezek. . . ezek. . . crell . c. . sect . . §. . the deliverance of the guilty by the sufferings of an innocent person by his own consent , makes not the punishment unjust . crell . c. . sect . . , , &c. crell . c. . sect . . king. . . crell . c. . sect . . crell . ib. s●ct . . §. . the death of christ considered as an expiatory sacrifice for sin . heb. . . c●●ll . c. . sect . . crell . c. . sect . . §. . what the expiation of sin was by the sacrifices under the law. grot. de satus . c. . heb. . , . heb. . . heb. . . . socin . de servat . l. . c. . praelect . th●olog . cap. . §. . a substitution proved from levit. . . &c. crell . c. . sect . . exod. . , . . . ovid. fast. l. . lev. . . servius ad aeneid . . euseb. demoust . evang. l. . c. . crell . cap. . §. . denotat enim vox 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 eos quorum alter pro altero animam ponat aut devov●at , & sic id malum quod alteri sub●●ndum erat ejus loco subire non d●treclet . socia . de servat . l. . c. 〈◊〉 . numb . . . ●…ll . c. . sect . . deut. . . §. . a substitution of christ in our room proved by his dying for us . pet. . . . . . . cor. . . rom. . . tim. . . heb. . . joh. . . luke . , . math. . . john . . coloss. . . soc. de servat . l. . c. . cor. . . socin . ib. §. . in what sense a surrogation of christ in our room is asserted by us . crell . c. . sect . . i● . s●ct . . ib. sect . . ib. sect . . ib. sect . . covarru . to. . p. . sect . . 〈◊〉 . . §. . our redemption by christ proves a substitution . crell . c. . s●ct . . §. . of the true notion of redemption . socin . de servat . l. . c. , . crell . c. . s●ct . . ulpian . l. . d. de jure sisci . budaeus ad pa●dect . p. . liv. l . festus . v. red . ulpian . l. . d. de rei vend . cic●r . ep . famil . l. . ep . . orat. pr● syllâ . so● . de servat l. . c. . §. . no necessity of paying the price to him that detains captive . cr●ll . c. . sect . . §. . of the oblation made by christ unto god. crell . c. . sect . . ib. sect . . ib. sect . . ib. sect . . ib. sect . . sect. . §. . that the priestly office of christ had a primary respect to god , and not us . crell . in heb. . . crell . c. . sect . . numb . . . vers. . sam. . . lev. . . . . . . chron. . . grot. in heb. . . § . christ no barely metaphorical high-priest . crell . c. . s●ct . . hebr. . . crell . c. . sect . . id. sect . . p. . §. . crellius destroys the priesthood of christ. smalc . c. smiglec . crell . c. . p. . levit. . . v. . . §. . no proper expiation of sin belongs to christ in heaven , if cr●… his doctrine be true . crell . c. . sect . . crell . c. . sect . . p. . heb. . . rom . 〈◊〉 john . . §. . ephes. . . proves the death of christ an expiatory sacrifice and an oblation to god. ephes. . . crell . c. . sect . . gen. . . . porphyr . de abstinent . l. . sect . . joseph . antiq . jud. l. . c. . §. . crellius his mistakes about the kinds of sacrifices . gen. . , . job . . . . selden . de jure nat . & gent. apud ebrae . l. . c. . &c. . levit. . . levit. . . , &c. lev. . . crell . ●c . . p. . §. . what influence the mactation of the sacrifice had on expiation . crell . c. . p. . levit. . . heb. . . levit. . , . codex joma . cap. . sect . . c. . sect . . heb. . , . . , . ma●●●h . 〈◊〉 . l. . c. . stra●o l. . 〈◊〉 . in hom. iliad . . st●●●o l. . herod . l. . §. . whether christs oblation of himself once to god , were in heaven or on earth . crell . c. . sect . . lev. . . v. . lev. . . . v. . lev. . . lev. . , . levit. . . levit. . , . §. . all things necessary to a legal oblation concur in the death of christ. heb. . . heb. . ● . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . herodot . l. . c. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . plutarch . de fide. xenoph. cyropaed . l. , . strab. l. . plutarch . symp. l. . probl . . §. . christs entrance into heaven could not be the oblation of himself mention'd . matth. . . phil. . , . § . christs exercise of power in heaven in no sense an oblation to god. §. . crellius his sense repugnant to the circumstances of the places . heb. . . . . . . heb. . , . . , . heb. . . heb. . . heb. . . . crell . c. . sec● . . heb. . , . §. . objections answered . heb. . . . . . . . . . . crell . c. . sect . . socin . praelect . c. ●●t . §. . of the true notion of expiation , as attributed to sacrifices . socia . de christo servat . p. . l. . crell . c. . sect . . crell . c. . sect . . socia . de servat . p. . c. . psal. . . lev. . . ver. . . crellius his objections answered . §. . crell . c. . sect . . c●●● n●… neget 〈◊〉 n●s ho●… b●m 〈◊〉 di sig●… tio●●m 〈◊〉 b●re . 〈◊〉 . c. . 〈◊〉 . . § . the jews rotion of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 buxtorf . lexic . talmud . v. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . socia . l. . c. . ●o●●t soci●…s victi●…m ob●…●…tiam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ac●…●…quam l●vem continuisse , quam ex promisso dei l●vi●● quorundam er●… ac peccatorum venia consequeretur . crell . c. . sect . . §. . gods expiating sin , destroys not expiation by sacrifices . crell . ib. sect . . heb. . . ver. , . ver. , , , , . jev. . . §. . the importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , relating to sacrifices . crell . c. . sect . , & . itaque quod ad votes graecas 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 attinet , quibus in hoc argumento non semel utitur d. scriptor ad heb. eae ad christi sacrificium & sacerdotii functionem relatae to etiam sensu usurpantur , quem graeca lingua receperat , h. e. de expurgatione rea●●s & aversione irae numinis aut poenae . crell . c. . p. . §. . expiation attributed to the sacrifice of christ in the same sense that it was to other sacrifices . crell . c. . sect . . crell . c. . sect . . §. . expiation by christ not meerly declarative . crell . c. . sect . . p. . crell . c. . sect . . §. . the death of christ not taken metonymically for all the consequents of it . crell . c. . sect . . sect. . c. . sect. . p. . crell . c. . sect . . rom. . v. . . . . . § . expiation attributed to christ antecedently to his entrance into heaven . crell . c. . sect . . §. . no distinction in scripture of the effects of christs entrance into heaven from his sitting at the right hand of god. crell . c. . sect . . p. . matth. . . phil. . , . §. . of the atonement made by christs death . crell . c. . sect . . crell . sect . . §. . of reconciliation by christs death . rom. . . cor. . , . eph. . . col. . , , . crell . c. . sect . , , , , &c. psal. . . . . psal. . . . . . . lev. . . crell . de deo & attrib . l. . c. . cor. . , . crell . c. . sect . . c. . sect . . crell . c. . sect . . §. . objections answered . §. . the freeness of grace asserted in scripture , destroys not satisfaction . gen. . . job . . the bishop of worcester's answer to mr. locke's second letter wherein his notion of ideas is prov'd to be inconsistent with itself, and with the articles of the christian faith. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the bishop of worcester's answer to mr. locke's second letter wherein his notion of ideas is prov'd to be inconsistent with itself, and with the articles of the christian faith. stillingfleet, edward, - . , [ ] p. printed by j.h. for henry mortlock ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng locke, john, - . -- essay concerning human understanding. knowledge, theory of. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the bishop of worcester's answer to mr. locke's second letter ; wherein his notion of ideas is prov'd to be inconsistent with it self , and with the articles of the christian faith . london , printed by i. h. for henry mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , mdcxcviii . the bishop of worcester's answer to mr. locke's second letter , &c. sir , i was not a little surpriz'd at the length of your second letter , considering the shortness of the answer contained in it : but it put me in mind of the springs of modená mention'd by ramazzini , which rise up with such a plenty of water upon opening a passage , that the undertaker is afraid of being overwhelm'd by it . i see how dangerous it is to give occasion to a person of such a fruitfull invention to write ; for letters become books , and small books will soon rise to great volumes , if no way be found to give a check to such an ebullition of thoughts , as some men find within themselves . i was apt to think the best way were , to let nature spend it self ; and although those who write out of their own thoughts do it with as much ease and pleasure as a spider spins his web ; yet the world soon grows weary of controversies , especially when they are about personal matters : which made me wonder that one who understands the world so well , should spend above fifty pages of a letter in renewing and enlarging a complaint wholly concerning himself . suppose i had born a little too hard upon you in joyning your words and anothers intentions together ; had it not been an easie and effectual way of clearing your self , to have declared to the world , that you owned the doctrine of the trinity , as it hath been received in the christian church , and is by ours in the creeds and articles of religion ? this had stopt the mouths of the clamorous , and had removed the suspicions of the doubtfull , and would have given full satisfaction to all reasonable men. but when you so carefully avoid doing this , all other arts and evasions do but leave the matter more suspicious among the most intelligent and impartial readers . this i mention , not that you need be afraid of the inquisition , or that i intend to charge you with heresie in denying the trinity ; but my present design is to shew , that your mind is so intangled and set fast by your notion of ideas , that you know not what to make of the doctrines of the trinity and incarnation ; because you can have no idea of one nature and three persons , nor of two natures and one person ; as will fully appear afterwards . and therefore , out of regard to publick service , in order to the preventing a growing mischief , i shall endeavour to lay open the ill consequences of your way of ideas with respect to the articles of the christian faith. but i shall wave all unnecessary repetitions , and come immediately to the matter of your complaint as it is renewed in this second letter , which i shall briefly answer , before i proceed to that which i chiefly design . your complaint , you say , was , that you were brought into a controversie wherein you had never meddled , nor knew how you came to be concerned in . i told you , it was because the person who opposed the mysteries of christianity went upon your grounds , and made use of your words ; although i declared withall , that they were used to other purposes than you intended them ; and i confess'd , that the reason why i quoted your words so much , was , because i found your notion as to certainty by ideas , was the main foundation on which the author of christianity not mysterious went ; and that he had nothing that look'd like reason , if that principle were removed ; which made me so much endeavour to shew , that it would not hold , and so i supposed the reason why i so often mention'd your words , was no longer a riddle to you . these passages you set down in your second letter ; but you say , all this seems to you to do nothing towards the clearing of this matter . whether it doth or not , i am content to leave it to any indifferent reader ; and there it must rest at last , although you should write volumes about it . but for what cause do you continue so unsatisfied ? you tell us , it is , that the author mentioned , went upon this ground , that clear and distinct ideas are necessary to certainty , but that is not your notion as to certainty by ideas ; which is , that certainty consists in the perception of the agreement or disagreement of ideas , such as we have , whether they be in all their parts perfectly clear and distinct or no : and you say , that you have no notions of certainty more than this one . this is no more than what you had said before in your former letter , and i took particular notice of it , and gave three several answers to it , which i shall here lay together and defend , because you seem to think i had not answered it . ( . ) that those who offer at clear and distinct ideas bid much fairer for certainty than you do ( according to this answer ) and speak more agreeably to your original grounds of certainty . for it is a very wonderfull thing in point of reason , for you to pretend to certainty by ideas , and not allow those ideas to be clear and distinct ? you say , the certainty lies in the perception of the agreement or disagreement of ideas : how can i clearly perceive the agreement or disagreement of ideas , if i have not clear and distinct ideas ? for how is it possible for a man's mind to know whether they agree or disagree , if there be some parts of those ideas , we have only general and confused ideas of ? and therefore i had great reason to say , that if certainty be placed in ideas we must have clear and distinct ideas . you may as well say , a man may be certain of the agreement and disagreement of colours in a confused or uncertain light. for so much as the idea fails of clearness and distinctness , so much it fails of that evidence which it is necessary to judge by . where-ever there is obscurity , confusion or imperfection in the ideas , there must be so much uncertainty in the perception of the agreement or disagreement of them . and to pretend to certainty by ideas without pretending to clear and distinct ideas , is to judge without evidence , and to determine a thing to be certainly true , when we cannot know whether it be so or not ; for how can you be sure that your ideas agree with the reality of things ( wherein you place the certainty of knowledge ) if there be no such ideas of those things , that you can perceive their true nature , and their difference from all others ? for therein you will not deny that the notion of clear and distinct ideas consists . but you say more than once or twice , or ten times , that i blame those who place certainty in clear and distinct ideas , but you do it not , and yet i bring you in among them ; which is the thing you so much complain of . i will give you a full answer to this complaint . i do not deny , but the first occasion of my charge was the supposition that clear and distinct ideas were necessary in order to any certainty in our minds , and that the only way to attain this certainty was by comparing these ideas together : but to prove this , your words were produced , and your principles of certainty laid down , and none else ; and i could not imagine that you could place certainty in the agreement or disagreement of ideas , and yet not suppose those ideas to be clear and distinct . but finding your self joyned in such company which you did not desire to be seen in , you rather chose to distinguish your self from them , by denying clear and distinct ideas to be necessary to certainty . but it must be here observed , that our debate about certainty by ideas is not about any other certainty , but about certainty of knowledge with regard to some proposition , whose ideas are to be compared as to their agreement and disagreement . for your words are , certainty of knowledge is to perceive the agreement or disagreement of ideas as expressed in any proposition . this we usually call knowing or being certain of the truth of any proposition . so that a proposition whose ideas are to be compared as to their agreement or disagreement , is the proper object of this certainty . and therefore this certainty is to be distinguished , . from a certainty by sense ; or that by which we come to know the existence of external objects . for you say , that the knowledge of the existence of any other thing we can have only by sensation . for there being no necessary connexion of real existence with any idea a man hath in his memory ; no particular man can know the existence of any other being , but only when by actual operating upon him it makes it self perceived by him . but that this is quite another certainty from that of ideas , appears from these following words of yours ; for the having the idea of any thing in our mind , no more proves the existence of that thing than the picture of a man evidences his being in the world , or the visions of a dream make thereby a true history . therefore this is a very different certainty from that of ideas . . from a certainty by reason ; when from the existence of some things evident to sense , we inferr the existence of another thing not evident to sense : as to take your own words in your former letter . as to the existence of bodily substances , i know by my senses , that something extended , solid and figur'd does exist ; for my senses are the utmost evidence and certainty i have of the existence of extended , solid , figured things . these modes being then known to exist by our senses , the existence of them ( which i cannot conceive can subsist without something to support them ) makes me see the connection of those ideas with a support , or as it is called , subject of inhesion , and so consequently the connection of that support , which cannot be nothing , with existence . granting all this , yet it by no means proves that we can have a certainty in the way of ideas , where the ideas themselves by which we have the certainty are obscure and confused ; but that supposing the ideas we have by our senses to be true , we may from them inferr the existence of something of which we have only an obscure and confused idea ; which is the case of bodily substances . of which i grant you may come to a certain knowledge , but not a certainty by ideas , but by a consequence of reason deduced from the ideas we have by our senses . and this can never prove that we may have a certainty by ideas , where the ideas themselves are not clear and distinct : for there is a great difference between having a certainty by reason , of a thing whose idea is confused and obscure , and having that certainty by obscure and confused ideas . for in this case the idea of substance is obscure : but the way of certainty is by a clear deduction of reason from the ideas we have by our senses . . from a certainty by remembrance ; by which i mean the remaining impression on the mind of an original certainty by demonstration . as to use your own instance ; a man hath found by mathematical evidence , that the three angles of a triangle are equal to two right angles ; the perception of this at the time of the demonstration was clear and distinct ; but afterwards , the method of demonstration may have slipt out of his mind , yet he retains a certainty of the thing by virtue of that demonstration ; but this is not a clear perception , as you would have it , where the ideas are confused ; but it is an obscure remembrance of the grounds of that certainty which he once had ; and hath never seen any reason since , why he should call it in question . these things then being put out of the question , which belong not to it ; the question truly stated is , whether we can attain to any certainty of knowledge as to the truth of a proposition in the way of ideas , where the ideas themselves by which we come to that certainty be not clear and distinct ? another thing to be observed is , that des cartes who first started this way of certainty by ideas , thought it a ridiculous thing in any to pretend to it , unless their ideas were clear and distinct . he saith , that when we assent without clear perception , we are either deceived , or fall into truth by chance , but we do often err when we think we have clear perception , and have not . but to a certain iudgment , it is necessary that our perception be not only clear but distinct : that is , when the thing not only lies open to our view , but we see it on all sides , and so can distinguish it from all other things . you agree with him in placing certainty in ideas , but you differ from him in that which alone made his opinion reasonable , viz. that these ideas be clear and distinct . if it were possible for us to come to clear and distinct ideas of the things we pretend to be certain of , it were a just pretence to certainty in that way ; but since we cannot come at them , we must be content with such measures of knowledge as we are capable of . but for you to talk so much of certainty by ideas , and yet to allow obscurity and imperfection in those ideas , is like a purblind man who would pretend to judge exactly of the differences of colours in the twilight , because another pretended to do it at noon-day : or like one , who would undertake to shew certainly the agreement or disagreement of two men at a distance from him , in their habit , features , and stature , and yet at the same time confess that he could not clearly distinguish one from the other . so that if i did think you spake more consistently to your hypothesis , than you say now that you did , i hope you will forgive me that wrong , if at least it be a wrong to you ; for after all , there are several passages in your essay , which suppose clear ideas necessary to certainty . for in one place you say , that the mind not being certain of the truth of that it doth not evidently know . what is this but to make clear ideas necessary to certainty ? in another , yet more plainly , that which is requisite to make our knowledge certain is the clearness of our ideas . in a third place you say ; for it being evident that our knowledge cannot exceed our ideas ; where they are either imperfect , confused or obscure , we cannot expect to have certain , perfect or clear knowledge . in a fourth ; but obscure and confused ideas can never produce any clear and certain knowledge , because as far as any ideas are confused or obscure , the mind can never perceive clearly whether they agree or disagree . what can be more express ? and yet you have complained of me in near twenty places of your second letter for charging this upon you . by this the world will judge of the justice of your complaints , and the consistency of your notion of ideas . ( . ) i answer'd , that it is very possible the authour of christianity not mysterious , might mistake or misapply your notions , but there is too much reason to believe he thought them the same , and we have no reason to be sorry that he hath given you this occasion for the explaining your meaning , and for the vindication of your self in the matters you apprehend he had charged you with . here you enter upon a fresh complaint , and say ▪ this can be no reason why you should be joyned with a man that had misapplied your notions ; and that no man hath so much mistaken and misapplied your notions as my self , and therefore you ought rather to be joyned with me . but is this fair and ingenuous dealing , to represent this matter so , as if i had joined you together , because he had misunderstood and misapplied your notions ? can you think me a man of so little sense to make that the reason of it ? no , sir , it was because he assigned no other grounds but yours , and that in your own words , however now you would divert the meaning of them another way . and although i was willing to allow you all reasonable occasions for your own vindication , as appears by my words ; yet i was sensible enough , that you had given too just an occasion to apply them in that manner , as appears by the next page . but because these words follow some i had quoted out of your postscript , you fall into a nice piece of criticism about them , which , you say , in grammatical construction , must refer to the words of the postscript ; but any one that reads without a design to cavil , would easily interpret them of your words and notions about which the debate was ; and not of the postscript which comes in but as a parenthesis . this looks like chicaning in controversie ; which no man , who knows his cause is good , ever falls into . but if , you say , by an unintelligible new way of construction the word them be applied to any passages in your book : what then ? why then , whoever they are , you intend to complain of them too . but the words just before tell you who they are , viz. the enemies of the christian faith. and is this all that you intend , only to complain of them for making you a party in the controversie against the trinity ? but whether you have not made your self too much a party in it , will appear , before we have done . i had with great kindness , as i thought , taken notice of a passage in your postscript : in which i was glad to find that in general , you owned the mysteries of the christian faith , and the scripture to be the foundation and rule of it : from whence i inferr'd , that i could not believe you intended to give any advantage to the enemies of the christian faith. this passage , you say , you were surprized to find in a paragraph design'd to give you satisfaction . there are some persons i find very hard to be satisfied . for i speak of my satisfaction in this passage , and that i was glad you agreed so far with me , although you could not come up in all things to what i could wish . but what reason have you to express so much dissatisfaction at these words ? you call it an extraordinary sort of complement ; and that they seem to intimate as though i took you for a heathen before . how like a cavilling exception is this ? do not we know that in the debate about the mysteries of faith our adversaries are no heathens ; but they deny any mysteries : i was glad to find that you owned them ; and resolved your faith into the scripture as the foundation of it . did not this look more like a good opinion of you as to these matters , than any inclination to suspect you for a heathen ? but you say , it must not be taken for granted , that those who do not write or appear in print in controversies of religion do not own the christian faith , and the scriptures as the rule of it . i was far enough from any such apprehension ; but the case is quite otherwise , with those who are not sparing of writing about articles of faith , and among them take great care to avoid some which have been always esteem'd fundamental articles by the christian church . and i think it was no want of humanity or christian charity in me , that i was so glad to find you own the mysteries of the christian faith in general : which shews at least , that you cannot object against any articles of faith , because they contain something mysterious in them . but i said , that in all things your answer doth not come fully up to what i could wish . and i think i gave sufficient proof of it , as to your idea of substance , the nature of ideas , the materiality of the soul , the disparaging some arguments to prove the existence of god , the tendency of your principles ; and the ground of certainty , &c. which are put off to another letter , except the last , which is therefore now to be examin'd . ( . ) the third answer i gave was , that your own grounds of certainty , tend to scepticism ; and that in an age wherein the mysteries of faith are too much exposed by the promoters of scepticism and infidelity , it is a thing of dangerous consequence to start such new methods of certainty , as are apt to leave men's minds more doubtfull than before . these words , you say , contain a farther accusation of your book , which shall be consider'd in its due place . but this is the proper place of considering it . for i said , that hereby you have given too just occasion to the enemies of the christian faith , to make use of your words and notions , as was evidently proved from your own concessions . and if this be so , however i was willing to have had you explained your self to the general satisfaction ; yet since you decline it , i do insist upon it , that you cannot clear your self from laying that foundation , which the author of christianity not mysterious built upon . for your ground of certainty is the agreement or disagreement of the ideas , as expressed in any proposition . which are your own words . from hence i urged , that let the proposition come to us any way , either by humane or divine authority , if our certainty depend upon this , we can be no more certain , than we have clear perception of the agreement or disagreement of ideas contained in it . and from hence the author of christianity not mysterious thought he had reason to reject all mysteries of faith which are contained in propositions , upon your grounds of certainty . by this it evidently appears , that although i was willing to allow you all fair ways of interpreting your own sense ; yet i by no means thought that your words were wholly misunderstood or misapplied by that author : but rather that he saw into the true consequence of them , as they lie in you book . and what answer do you give to this ? not a word in the proper place for it . but afterwards ( for i would omit nothing that may seem to help your cause ) you offer something towards an answer . for there you distinguish the certainty of faith , and the certainty of knowledge , and you humbly conceive the certainty of faith , if i think fit to call it so , hath nothing to do with the certainty of knowledge ; and to talk of the certainty of faith seems all one to you as to talk of the knowledge of believing , a way of speaking not easie for you to understand . so that if i shake never so much the certainty of knowledge , it doth not at all concern the assurance of faith , that is quite distinct from it , neither stands nor falls with knowledge . faith stands by it self and upon grounds of its own , nor can be removed from them and placed on those of knowledge . their grounds are so far from being the same , or having any thing , that when it is brought to certainty , faith is destroyed , 't is knowledge then and faith no longer . so that , whether you are , or are not mistaken in the placing certainty in the perception of the agreement or disagreement of ideas , faith still stands upon its own basis , which is not at all alter'd by it ; and every article of that hath just the same unmoved foundation , and the very same credibility that it had before . this is the substance of what you say about this matter , and is the most considerable passage in your book towards clearing this matter . but i was aware of this , as appears by these words ; is faith an unreasonable act ? is it not an assent to a proposition ? then , if all certainty in acts of reason be derived from the perceiving the agreement or disagreement of the ideas contained in it ; either there can be no certainty in the reasonable act of faith , or the grounds of certainty must be laid some other way . but this is a matter of too great weight and consequence to be easily past over , because the main strength of your defence lies in it , and therefore i shall more strictly examine what you say ; and set this point of the certainty of faith in as good a light as i can , and shew the inconsistency of your notion of ideas , with the articles of the christian faith. to talk of the certainty of faith , say you , seems all one to you as to talk of the knowledge of believing ; a way of speaking not easie for you to understand . but how comes the certainty of faith to become so hard a point with you ? have not all mankind , who have talked of matters of faith , allow'd a certainty of faith as well as a certainty of knowledge , although upon different grounds ? in your former letter you told us , that if we knew the original of words , we should be much helped to the ideas they were first applied to and made to stand for . now what is there in the original of the word certainty which makes it uncapable of being applied to faith ? i had thought that our word was taken from the latin ; and that among the romans it was opposed to doubting , nil tam certum quam quod de dubio certum . and therefore where the mind upon examination of the grounds of assent saw no reason for doubting , it might properly be said to be certain : if it sees no cause to doubt from the evidence of the thing it self , or the clear deduction of consequences , that is certainty of knowledge ; but where it sees no reason to doubt from the authority of him that speaks , that is certainty of believing ; and the greater the authority of him that speaks , the less reason there is to doubt , and therefore the greater certainty of faith. and this i think is very easie to be understood , and so have the generality of mankind thought to this day . but it seems our old words must not now pass in the current sense ; but then it is fit they be called in , and new stampt , that we may have none but new milled words to talk with ; but in common justice , a competent time ought to be allow'd for it , that none be surprized ; and in the mean time they ought to pass in their current sense ; and that is all the favour i desire in this matter . but i am utterly against any private mints of words ; and think those persons assume too much authority to themselves , who will not suffer common words to pass in their general acceptation ; but will set such bounds and limits to the sense of them , as suit best with their own speculations . but is not this all one as to talk of the knowledge of believing ? for what reason ? knowledge and faith are too distinct things , the one relates to evidence , and the other to testimony ; but certainty is common to them both , unless you think it impossible to be certain upon any testimony whatsoever . you tell us in your postscript ( which i hope may be brought hither without offence ) that it is a shame among christians to raise such a doubt of this , whether an infinitely powerfull and wise being be veracious or no. then i suppose the veracity of god is a certain and undoubted principle ; and if there be sufficient means to assure us of divine revelation ( as i doubt not but you yield there are ) what should hinder one , that believes upon such grounds as are sufficient to convince him , from attaining to a certainty of faith ? but you take certainty as belonging only to knowledge . so do the papists , as belonging only to infallibility , and say there can be no certainty of faith , where there is not an infallible proponent ; but neither you nor they are to impose upon the understandings of mankind , who know how to distinguish the grounds of certainty both from knowledge and infallibility . you allow such a thing as assurance of faith ; and why not certainty as well as assurance ? i know no reason , but that you have appropriated certainty to the perception of the agreement or disagreement of ideas in any proposition ; and now you find this will not hold as to articles of faith ; and therefore you will allow no certainty of faith ; which i think is not for the advantage of your cause . but you go on and tell us , that if this way of certainty by ideas doth not hold , yet it cannot affect matters of faith which stand immoveable upon other grounds ; faith in your own words stands still upon its own basis ; and every article of it has just the same unmoved foundation , and the very same credibility that it had before . this will appear to be an extraordinary answer , when we have throughly examin'd it . here we see faith is taken not with respect to the general grounds of certainty , but to the particular articles of faith , i. e. the propositions contained in that revelation which we embrace on the account of its divine authority ; now these propositions are of several kinds . . some that are more clearly expressed therein , but such as might be attained to by the light of reason without revelation . and such are the fundamental principles of natural religion , viz. the being of god and providence , and the rewards and punishments of a future state. these mankind may attain to a certainty in , without revelation , or else there can be no such thing as natural religion in the world ; but these things are more fully and plainly revealed in the scriptures . let us now suppose a person by natural reason to attain to a certainty , as to the being of god and immortality of the soul ; and he proceeds upon your general grounds of certainty , from the agreement or disagreement of ideas ; and so from the ideas of god and the soul , he is made certain of those two points before mention'd . but let us again suppose that such a person upon a farther examination of your method of proceeding finds , that the way of ideas in these cases will not do ; for no idea proves the existence of the thing without it self , no more than the picture of a man proves his being , or the visions of a dream make a true history , ( which are your own expressions . ) and for the soul he cannot be certain , but that matter may think , ( as you affirm ) and then what becomes of the soul's immateriality ( and consequently immortality ) from its operations ? but for all this , say you , his assurance of faith remains firm on its own basis. now i appeal to any man of sense , whether the finding the uncertainty of his own principles which he went upon in point of reason , doth not weaken the credibility of these fundamental articles when they are consider'd purely as matters of faith ? for before , there was a natural credibility in them on the account of reason ; but by going on wrong grounds of certainty , all that is lost ; and instead of being certain he is more doubtfull than ever . and if the evidence of faith falls so much short of that of reason , it must needs have less effect upon mens minds , when the subserviency of reason is taken away ; as it must be when the grounds of certainty by reason are vanished . is it at all probable , that he who finds his reason deceive him in such fundamental points should have his faith stand firm and unmoveable on the account of revelation ? for in matters of revelation , there must be some antecedent principles supposed before we can believe any thing on the account of it . and the first is , that there is a god ; but this was the very thing he found himself at a loss in by his way of certainty by ideas ; and how can his faith stand firm as to divine revelation , when he is made uncertain by his own way , whether there be a god or no ? besides , to suppose divine revelation , we must be certain that there is a principle above matter and motion in the world ; but here we find , that upon the principles of certainty by ideas he cannot be certain of this ; because he doth not know but matter may think ; and consequently , all revelation may be nothing but the effects of an exalted fancy , or the heats of a disordered imagination , as spinoza affirmed . again , before there can be any such thing as assurance of faith upon divine revelation , there must be a certainty as to sense and tradition ; for there can be no revelation pretended now without immediate inspiration ; and the basis of our faith is a revelation contained in an ancient book , whereof the parts were delivered at distant times , but conveyed down to us by an universal tradition . but now , what if your grounds of certainty can give us no assurance as to these things ? i do not mean , that they cannot demonstrate matters of fact , which it were most unreasonable to expect ; but that these grounds of certainty make all things uncertain ; for i think i have proved , that this way of ideas cannot give a satisfactory account as to the existence of the plainest objects of sense ; because reason cannot perceive the connexion between the objects and the ideas . how then can we arrive to any certainty in perceiving those objects by their ideas ? and i was in the right , when i said this way tended to scepticism ; and i do not think that consistent with the assurance of faith. but this is an imputation you take very ill , and say , that i have brought no argument for it , but only that my great prejudice against this way of certainty is , that it leads to scepticism . ( sceptism is the new mill'd word . ) this is very strange , when that expression is only the introduction to the arguments from p. to , to which no answer at all is given . and so i leave it . there are other propositions or articles of faith which wholly depend on the sense of words contained in the scripture , and we are to enquire , whether the assurance of faith , as you call it , be consistent with the overthrowing your grounds of certainty ; i. e. whether those who embrace the articles of faith in the way of ideas , can retain their certainty of those articles when these ideas are quitted . and this alone will be a plain demonstration in the case , that the certainty of faith cannot stand with such men , if this way of certainty by ideas be destroyed . and by this which i am now to make out , let any one judge how true your words are like to prove , when you say , let the grounds of knowledge or certainty be resolved into what they please , it touches not your faith ; the foundation of that stands as sure as before , and cannot be at all shaken by it . of this we shall judge by some important articles of christian faith according to your ideas . the first shall be that of the resurrection of the dead . the reason of believing the resurrection of the same body upon your grounds is from the idea of identity ; which i take to be this from your own words . . that the identity of living creatures depends not on a mass of the same particles , but on something else ; for in them the variation of great parcels of matter alters not the identity ; for which you instance in the growth of an oak and a horse . . that the identity of a man consists in nothing but a participation of the same continued life by constantly fleeting particles of matter , in succession vitally united to the same organized body . . that personal identity , i. e. the sameness of a rational being lies in self-consciousness , and in that alone , whether it be annexed only to one individual substance , or can be continued in a succession of several substances . . that those who place thought in a purely material , animal constitution , void of spirit , do place personal identity in something else that identity of substance , as animal identity is preserved in identity of life and not of substance . . that it matters not to this point of being the same self , whether this present self be made up of the same or other substances . . that in this personal identity of self-consciousness is founded all the right and iustice of reward and punishment , happiness and misery , being that for which every one is concerned for himself , not mattering what becomes of any substance not joined to , or affected with that consciousness . . that the sentence at the day of iudgment will be justified by the consciousness all persons shall have that they themselves in what bodies soever they appear , or what substances soever that consciousness adheres to , are the same that committed those actions and deserve that punishment for them . this i suppose to be a true and just account of your sense of this matter ; and so the article of the resurrection is resolved into your idea of personal identity . and the question between us now is , whether your certainty of this matter from your idea have no influence on the belief of this article of faith ? for the main of your defence lies upon this point , whether your method of certainty by ideas , doth at all shake , or in the least concern the assurance of faith ? which you absolutely deny , and affirm , that faith stands upon its own basis , and is not at all altered by your method of certainty ; and every article of that has just the same unmoved foundation , and the very same credibility that it had before . now i take this article of the resurrection of the dead to be an article of faith , and we are to consider , whether if your method of certainty by ideas do hold in this matter , it continues as firm , and in the same credibility it had before ? i shall not urge you with the sense of our own or other christian churches in this point of the sameness of the body in the resurrection of the dead , but i shall continue my self to the scripture as the foundation and rule of our faith ; and the main point is , whether according to that , it be not necessary for the same substance which was united to the body to be raised up at the last day ? i do not say the same individual particles of matter which were united at the point of death ; for there must be a great alteration in them in a lingring disease , as if a fat man falls into a consumption : i do not say , the same particles which the sinner had at the very time of commission of his sins ; for then a long sinner must have a vast body , considering the continual spending of particles by perspiration ; but that which i suppose is implyed in it is , that it must be the same material substance which was vitally united to the soul here . you mention the hypothesis of those , who place thought in a purely material animal constitution void of spirit : but you agree , that the more probable opinion is , that this consciousness is annexed to the affection of one individual immaterial substance . it is very well that it is allowed to be the more probable opinion ; but it seems without any certainty as to the truth of it . for you have told us , what the effect of probability is , viz. that it is enough to induce the mind to judge the proposition true or false rather than the contrary ; and that it is conversant about things whereof we have no certainty , but only some inducements to receive it for true . thence i cannot but observe , that we have no certainty upon your grounds , that self-consciousness depends upon an individual immaterial substance , and consequently that a material substance may , according to your principles , have self-consciousness in it ; at least , that you are not certain of the contrary . now i pray consider , whether this doth not a little affect the whole article of the resurrection ? for , if it may be only a material substance in us that thinks , then this substance , which consists in the life of an organiz'd body , must cease by death ; for how can that , which consisted in life , be preserved afterwards ? and if the personal identity consists in a self-consciousness depending on such a substance as cannot be preserved without an organiz'd body , then there is no subsistence of it separate from the body , and the resurrection must be giving a new life . to whom ? to a material substance which wholly lost its personal identity by death . so that here can be no personal identity at all ; unless you say the very same life which was long since at an end can be reproduced . which i suppose you will not assert . but let us take the more probable opinion ; which i think certain , viz. that self-consciousness depends upon an immaterial principle in us ; and then the question is , how far the scripture determines the sameness of the body at the resurrection , i. e. of that material substance , which was vitally united with that immaterial substance in this life . the doctrine delivered by our saviour is , that all that are in the graves shall hear his voice ; and shall come forth ; they that have done good unto the resurrection of life , and they that have done evil to the resurrection of damnation . what is the meaning of all that are in their graves ? doth this relate to any other substance than that which was united to the soul in life ? can a different substance be said to be in the graves and to come out of them ? is it not material , as you say , whether the present self be made up of the same or other substances ? if it be not so to your idea of identity , it is as to the sense of our saviour's words : unless you can make it out , that a substance which never was in the grave may come out of it . but it may be said , that if these words be taken strictly they confine the resurrection to those particles of matter only which were in the grave ; if not , then they may extend to another substance . i answer , that by comparing this with other places we find that the words are to be understood of the substance of that body to which the soul was united ; and not to those individual particles . so st. paul , for we must all appear before the iudgment seat of christ , that every one may receive the things done in his body , according to that he hath done , whether it be good or bad . can these words be understood of any other material substance , but that body in which these things were done ? how could it be said , if any other substance be joyned to the soul at the resurrection , as its body , that they were the things done in or by the body ? curcellaeus his copy reads it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; the complutensian 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and several of the fathers so took it ; either way , it must relate to that which was the real body in which the person lived and acted , whether good or evil. and st. paul's dispute about the manner of raising the body might soon have been ended , if there were no necessity of the same body . if there be no resurrection of the dead , then is not christ raised . it seems then , other bodies are to be raised as his was ; and can there be any doubt whether his body were the same material substance which was united to his soul before ? and the apostle lays so much weight upon it , that he saith , if christ be not raised your faith is vain ; doth he mean , if there were not the same personal identity , as to the soul of christ and the matter united to it after the resurrection ? that cannot be his meaning , for then there would have been no necessity of christs own body being raised ; which he asserts and proves by undoubted witnesses . were they witnesses only of some material substance then united to his soul ? he saith , he was seen of five hundred brethren at once . what he was this ? it was christ that died . yes , the person of christ ; but personal identity doth not require the same substance , but the same consciousness ; and so if christ were conscious to himself in another substance , there was no necessity of the same body . and so truly from the seeing the person of christ they could not prove it was the same individual body . but thomas said , except i shall see in his hands the print of the nails , and put my finger into the print of the nails , and thrust my hand into his side , i will not believe . the doing whereof convinced him it was the same individual body ; but there will be no such proof at the great day . and there is no reason there should , since the resurrection of christ was a sufficient proof of god's power to raise the dead , and the dissimilitude of circumstances can be no argument against it , since the power and wisdom of god are concerned in it . but the apostle insists upon the resurrection of christ , not meerly as an argument of the possibility of ours , but of the certainty of it ; because he rose as the first fruits ; christ the first fruits , afterwards they that are christs at his coming . st. paul was aware of the objections in mens minds about the resurrection of the same body ; and it is of great consequence as to this article , to shew upon what grounds he proceeds . but some man will say , how are the dead raised up , and with what body do they come ? first he shews , that the seminal parts of plants are wonderfully improved by the ordinary providence of god in the manner of their vegetation . they sow bare grain of wheat , or of some other grain , but god giveth it a body , as it hath pleased him , and to every seed his own body . here is an identity of the material substance supposed ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that proper body which belongs to it ; every seed having that body in little , which is afterwards so much inlarged ; and in grain the seed is corrupted before its germination ; but it hath its proper organical parts , which make it the same body with that which it grows up to . for although grain be not divided into lobes as other seeds are , yet it hath been found , by the most accurate observations , that upon separating the membranes these seminal parts are discerned in them ; which afterwards grow up to that body which we call corn. st. paul indeed saith , that we sow not that body that shall be ; but he speaks not of the identity but the perfection of it . and although there be such a difference from the grain it self , when it comes up to be perfect corn with root , stalk , blade and ear , that it may be said to outward appearance not to be the same body , yet with regard to the seminal and organical parts , it is as much the same as a man grown up is the same with the embryo in the womb. and although many arguments may be used to prove , that a man is not the same , because life which depends upon the course of the blood and the manner of respiration and nutrition is so different in both states , yet that man would be thought ridiculous that should seriously affirm , that it was not the same man. and you grant , that the variation of great parcels of matter in plants , alters not the identity : and that the organization of the parts in one coherent body partaking of one common life makes the identity of a plant ; so that in things capable of any sort of life , the identity is consistent with a continued succession of parts ; and so the wheat grown up is the same body with the grain that was sown . and thus the alteration of the parts of the body at the resurrection is consistent with its identity , if its organization and life be the same ; and this is a real identity of the body which depends not upon consciousness . from whence it follows , that to make the same body , no more is required but restoring life to the organized parts of it . and you grant likewise , that the identity of the same man consists in a participation of the same continued life by constantly fleeting particles of matter in succession vitally united to the same organized body . so that there is no difficulty as to the sameness of the body , if life were continued ; and if by divine power life be restored to that material substance which was before united , by a re-union of the soul to it , there is no reason to deny the identity of the body . not from the consciousness of the soul , but from that life which is the result of the union of soul and body . but st. paul still supposes that it must be that material substance to which the soul was before united . for saith he , it is sown in corruption , it is raised in incorruption : it is sown in dishonour , it is raised in glory ; it is sown in weakness , it is raised in power ; it is sown a natural body , it is raised a spiritual body . can such a material substance which was never united to the body be said to be sown in corruption , and weakness , and dishonour ? either therefore he must speak of the same body , or his meaning cannot be comprehended . for what doth all this relate to a conscious principle ? the apostle speaks plainly of that body which was once quickened and afterwards falls to corruption ; and is to be restored with more noble qualities . for this corruptible must put on incorruption , and this mortal must put on immortality . i do not see how he could more expressly affirm the identity of this corruptible body , with that after the resurrection , and that without any respect to the principle of self-consciousness ; and so if the scripture be the sole foundation of our faith , this is an article of it , and so it hath been always understood by the christian church . and your idea of personal identity is inconsistent with it ; for it makes the same body which was here united to the soul not to be necessary to the doctrine of the resurrection , but any material substance being united to the same principle of consciousness makes the same body . the dispute is not , how far personal identity in it self may consist in the very same material substance ; for we allow the notion of personal identity to belong to the same man under several changes of matter ; but whether it doth not depend upon a vital vnion between the soul and body and the life which is consequent upon it ; and therefore in the resurrection the same material substance must be reunited ; or else it cannot be called a resurrection , but a renovation ; i. e. it may be a new life , but not a raising the body from the dead . . the next articles of faith which your notion of ideas is inconsistent with , are no less than those of the trinity , and of the incarnation of our saviour . the former by the first article of our church is expressed by three persons in the vnity of the divine nature : the latter is said art. . to be by the vnion of the divine and humane nature in one person . let us now see whether your ideas of nature and person can consist with these . but before i come to that i must endeavour to set this matter right , as to the dispute about the notion of nature and person , which you have endeavour'd with all your art , to perplex and confound , and have brought in several interlocutors to make it look more like an entertainment . of which afterwards : the original question was , whether we could come to any certainty about the distinction of nature and person in the way of ideas ; and my business was to prove that we could not , because we had no simple ideas by sensation or reflection , without which you affirm that our vnderstanding seems to you not to have the least glimmering of ideas : and that we have nothing in our minds which did not come in one of these two ways . these are your own words . and then i undertook to shew , that it was not possible for us to have any simple ideas of nature and person by sensation or reflection : and that whether we consider'd nature as taken for essential properties , or for that substance wherein that property lies : whether we consider it in distinct individuals or abstractly ; still my design was to shew that in your way of ideas , you could come to no certainty about them . and as to person i shew'd , that the distinction of individuals is not founded meerly on what occurs to our senses , but upon a different manner of subsistence , which is in one individual , and is not communicable to another . and as to this i said , that we may find within our selves an intelligent substance by inward perception ; but whether that make a person or not , must be understood some other way ; for if the meer intelligent substance make a person , then there cannot be the union of two such natures , but there must be two persons . which is repugnant to the article of the incarnation of our saviour . that this was the true state of the question will appear to any one that will vouchsafe to look into it . but what said you in your first letter in answer to it ? as to nature you say , that it is a collection of several ideas combined into one complex , abstract idea , which when they are found united in any individual existing , though joyned in that existence with several other ideas , that individual or particular being is truly said to have the nature of a man , or the nature of a man to be in him ; forasmuch as these simple ideas are found united in him , which answer the ●omplex , abstract idea , to which the specifick name is given by any one : which abstract specifick idea , he keeps the same when he applies the specifick name standing for it to distinct individuals . and as to person , in the way of ideas , you say , that the word person in it self signifies nothing , and so no idea belonging to it , nothing can be said to be the true idea of it . but as soon as the common vse of any language has appropriated it to any idea , then that is the true idea of a person , and so of nature . against this i objected in my answer to that letter , that if these terms really signifie nothing in themselves , but are only abstract and complex ideas , which the common use of language hath appropriated to be the signs of two ideas ; then it is plain that they are only notions of the mind , as all abstracted and complex ideas are ; and so one nature and three persons can be no more . to this you answer in your second letter , that your notion of the terms nature and person is , that they are two sounds that naturally signifie not one thing more than another , nor in themselves signifie any thing at all , but have the signification which they have barely by imposition . whoever imagined that words signifie any otherwise than by imposition ? but the question is , whether these be meer words and names , or not ? or whether there be not a real foundation in things for such a distinction between nature and person ? of which i gave this evident proof , that if it were not the same nature in different individuals , every individual must make a different kind . and what answer do you give to this plain reason ? nothing particular that i can find . but in the general you say , that all that you can find that i except against in your notion of nature and person is nothing but this , viz. that these are two sounds which in themselves signifie nothing . and is this all indeed ? did not i tell you in these words , ( which i am forced to repeat on this occasion , although i am very unwilling to fill pages with repetitions . ) the question now between us comes to this , whether the common nature or essence of things lies only in an abstract idea , or a general name , and the real essence consists only in particular beings from which that nature is abstracted ? the question is not whether in forming the notion of common nature , the mind doth not abstract from the circumstances of particular beings ; but it is whether there be not an antecedent foundation in the nature of things , upon which we form this abstract idea ? for if there be , then it cannot be called an universal name only ; or a meer sign of an idea , which we have formed from putting many simple ideas together , which name belongs to all of such a sort , as have those simple ideas united together . in these words , which you cannot deny to be in the place mention'd , i thought i had stated the case fairly between us . and why do you not return an answer to them ? but instead of that you only mention another passage more liable to cavilling , where i say , that upon your notions of nature and person , i do not see how it is possible to defend the doctrine of the trinity . for if these terms really signifie nothing in themselves , but are only abstract and complex ideas , which the common use of language hath appropriated to be the sign of two ideas ; then it is plain that they are only notions of the mind , as all abstract and complex ideas are ; and so one nature and three persons can be no more . upon this you charge me with affirming that of you which you never said , viz. that these terms are only abstract or complex ideas : but your words are , taking therefore nature and person for the sign of two ideas they are put to stand for : and by enumerating all the simple ideas , that are contained in the complex idea , that each of them is made to stand for , we shall immediately see the whole difference that is between them . these are your own words . now from thence it appears , that nature and person are terms which are the signs of two ideas by your own confession : but you never made these , or any other terms to be ideas : and you should be ashamed of such iargon . but have not you said in your essay , that it is a very common practice for names to be made use of instead of the ideas themselves , especially if the ideas be very complex . nature and person you grant to be complex ideas ; and these terms you confess are appropriated to be the signs of two ideas : therefore here is an ambiguity in the use of these words , for they are complex ideas themselves , and they are made the signs of them ; and so the words of the sentence are capable of both those senses . for it is true , according to you , that these terms , nature and person , really signifie nothing in themselves , but are only complex and abstract ideas ; and those terms are appropriated to be the signs of two ideas . so that nature and person are both ideas themselves , and those terms are the signs of two ideas : and the sense had not been liable to exception , if and had been inserted ; for if these terms really signifie nothing in themselves , but are only abstract and complex ideas ; and which the common use had appropriated to be the signs of two ideas , &c. but whether this be properly expressed or not , according to your sense of ideas , the weight of the controversie depends not at all upon it ; but whether nature and person can be any other but abstract ideas , according to your own plain expressions ; and if they are so , they are no more than notions of the mind , and then the consequence must hold , that one nature and three persons can be no more . upon which i said , i did not see how it was possible to defend the doctrine of the trinity , ( and i now add of the incarnation ) which was the thing i undertook to make out . but you very freely say , whether i rightly deduce from it this consequence , viz. and so one nature and three persons can be no more ; is what you neither know not are concerned to examin . which i think is an expression could hardly drop from a person , who did know how to declare his belief of three persons in the vnity of the divine nature . but you pretend these are none of your notions of nature and person , nor indeed any thing you can understand . but it is plain , that this consequence follows from your own notions of nature and person ; as they are set down expresly by your self in the former letter . you tell me , i made this inference a little in haste ! whether a man write in haste or not , the world will judge by what appears , and not by what he or any other saith . and i think it will appear , that i did not make this inference in haste , but from a deliberate consideration of your notion of the ideas of nature and person . but by those terms signifying nothing in themselves , you say , that you meant , that they are two sounds that naturally signifie not one thing more than another , nor in themselves signifie any thing at all , but have the signification which they have barely by imposition . and was this truly all that you meant by it ? and do you think that peter , and iames , and iohn signifie any thing by nature ? are not all words made significative by imposition ? but is there no difference in the signification of words as they stand for signs of things ? if they be words for particular substances , then you grant , that there is something really existing which is meant by those words ; but if they relate only to the conceptions of the mind , then they signifie them and no more . and the question is , which of these two you meant by those words nature and person ? and you plainly affirm both of them to be complex ideas , which are made only by an act of the mind , and therefore your meaning can be no otherwise understood . you presume , that upon more leisurely thoughts , both my self and the rest of mankind will concur with you . i never affected singularity , and am ready to comply with the rest of mankind in any reasonable thing . but you say , that this notion of nature and person , that they are two words that signifie only by imposition , is what will hold in the common sense of mankind . no doubt of it : but i must again and again tell you , that is not the point in question , but whether they are only abstract and complex ideas , which have no other being but in the mind . and to this you answer not a word . i do not in the least think as you suggest , that it is necessary to the defense of the trinity , that these two articulate sounds should have natural significations , and that unless they are used in those significations , it were impossible to defend the doctrine of the trinity . but i do affirm , that those who make nature and person to be only abstract and complex ideas ; can neither defend nor reasonably believe it . and this is making no extraordinary supposition necessary to the belief or defence of it ; but only that which in the common sense of mankind is necessary to it . for , if you have expressed your own mind in your former letter ; that must guide us in your notion of nature and person , where you undertook to explain them . for if nature and person be abstract , and complex ideas , as you say , and such are only acts of the mind , i do not see how it is possible for you to reconcile these notions with the articles of the trinity and incarnation . i do not go about to accuse you of denying these doctrines ; i hope you do not . but i impute all this hesitancy , and doubting only to your notions of ideas ; which you had been so long forming in your mind , that as it often happens in such cases , one darling favourite notion proves too hard for some points of far greater consequence , when they are found inconsistent with it . and because you had first fixed your notion of ideas , and taken much pains about them , you thought all other things were to be entertained as they appear'd consistent with them . but you could not but find , that the articles of three persons , and one nature ; and two natures , and one person , were not reconcileable with your ideas of nature and person ; which is that they are complex ideas , which depend upon the act of the mind ; for this were to make the two natures in christ to be only two complex ideas . for if nature , as you say , be a collection of several ideas combined into one complex , abstract idea ; then two natures can be nothing else but two such collections , or two abstracted and complex ideas . it may be said , that when you make nature an abstracted and complex idea , you speak of a specifick idea , but the humane nature in christ was a particular substance , and this you assert to be a real thing , and not to depend on the act of the mind . but this doth not clear the matter . for in your former letter you said , that all the ideas we have of particular distinct substances , are nothing but several combinations of simple ideas : which in corporeal substances are sensible qualities , in incorporeal are operations of the mind . the utmost then which the idea of humane nature in christ comes to is , that there were in him the sensible qualities and intellectual operations of a man , with an unknown substance to support them : which belongs not to the simple ideas , but is supposed by them . this is all i can make of your way of ideas : and so the incarnation of christ is the assuming the sensible qualities , and intellectual operations of a man , to which a substratum doth belong : but is no part of the simple ideas . so that we can have no idea at all of the humane nature of christ ; but only an inference , that since those are but accidents , there must be a substratum to support them ; and consequently there was a particular substance in him made up of mind and body . but if this had come in the way of ideas , yet it cannot make out the humane nature of christ. for if it were in him no otherwise than in other men , then the mystery of the incarnation is quite gone , and christ is to be consider'd but like other men ; which doth not answer to what the scripture saith of the word 's being made flesh , and that god was manifest in the flesh. there must be therefore something beyond the meer humane nature in him ; and either it must be only some divine operation upon , and with it , and that is no substance ; or if it be a substance , it must either cohabit with it , or else be united to it . if it only co-habits , then there are two persons dwelling together in one body , and the actions of one cannot be attributed to the other ; if there be a real union between them , so as the acts belong to one person ; then there must be such a manner of existence in the humane nature of christ , which is different from it in other persons . for in all others , the acts belong to the humane person ; but if it were so in christ , then the divine acts of christ must flow from the humane nature as the principle of them ; which is to confound the divine and humane nature , and operations together ; if they come from the divine person , then the humane nature must have another kind of subsistence , than it hath in others , or else there must be two persons ; and person being as you say , a forensick term , there must be two different capacities of rewards and punishments ; which is so absurd an opinion as i think no one will assert . if there be then but one person and two natures , how can you possibly reconcile this to your way of ideas ? person , say you , in it self signifies nothing ; but as soon as the common use of any language has appropriated it to any idea , then that is the true idea of a person , i. e. men may call a person what they please , for there is nothing but common use required to it : they may call a horse , or a tree , or a stone a person if they think fit ; but since the common use of language hath appropriated it to an intelligent being , that is , a person . and so you tell us , that person stands for a thinking intelligent being that hath reason and reflection , and can consider it self as it self , the same thinking being in different times and place . how comes person to stand for this and nothing else ? from whence comes self-consciousness in different times and places to make up this idea of a person ? whether it be true or false , i am not now to enquire , but how it comes into this idea of a person ? hath the common use of our language appropriated it to this sense ? if not , this seems to be a meer arbitrary idea ; and may as well be denied as affirmed . and what a fine pass are we come to in the way of ideas , if a meer arbitrary idea must be taken into the only true method of certainty ? but of that afterwards . we now proceed in the way of ideas as you give it us . but if this be the true idea of a person , then there can be no union of two natures in one person : for if an intelligent conscious being be the idea of a person ; and the divine and human nature be intelligent conscious beings , then the doctrine of the union of two natures and one person is quite sunk , for here must be two persons in this way of ideas . again , if this be the idea of a person , then where there are three persons , there must be three distinct intelligent beings ; and so there cannot be three persons in the same individual essence . and thus both these doctrines of the trinity and incarnation are past recovery gone , if this way of ideas hold . so great a difference there is , between forming ideas first , and then judging of revelation by them ; and the believing of revelation on its proper grounds , and interpreting the sense of it by the due measures of reason . you may pretend what you please , that you hold the assurance of faith , and the certainty by ideas to go upon very different grounds ; but when a proposition is offered you out of scripture to be believed , and you doubt about the sense of it , is not recourse to be made to your ideas ? as , in the present case , whether there can be three persons in one nature , or two natures and one person ; what resolution can you come to upon your principles , but in the way of ideas ? you may possibly say , that where ideas are clear and distinct , there you are to judge of revelation by them ; and this is what you assert in your essay , that in propositions whose certainty is built on clear and perfect ideas and evident deductions of reason , there no proposition can be received for divine revelation which contradicts them ; from hence you conclude it impossible for the same body to be in two places at once . and yet there is a person who hath lately told the world , that there is one certain secret way how by divine power , the same body , but not the same person , may be in very distant places at once ; but he is advised to keep it up as a secret ; which was good friendly advice : but till it be discovered there is no judging of it . here i observe , that you require clear and distinct ideas ; and yet we find , if a man's word may be taken , these clear and distinct ideas do not prove the thing impossible . but what is to be said when the ideas are not clear and distinct ? you say , your method of certainty is by the agreement or disagreement of ideas , where they are not in all their parts perfectly clear and distinct . and this is your secret about certainty ; which i think had been better kept up too : for i pray , in the case now before us , are your ideas of nature and person clear and distinct or not ? if they are , then it is plain from your own doctrine , that if revelation be pretended , you are to reject it . how then comes the certainty of faith to be preserved firm and immoveable , although the grounds of certainty be disputed ? but suppose they are not clear and distinct ? what is to be done in a matter of revelation contrary to your ideas ? are you to submit to the revelation or not ? whatever god hath revealed is most certainly true , no doubt can be made of it . this is the proper object of faith ; but whether it be a divine revelation or no , you say , reason must judge . yes , reason proceeding upon clear and distinct ideas . but suppose you have ideas sufficient for certainty in your way , but not clear and distinct ; what is to be done then ? in things that are above reason , you say , when they are revealed , they are proper matters of faith. what is here being above reason ? either above the discovery of reason ▪ as the fall of angels , the resurrection of the body , &c. and about these , you say , reason hath nothing to do . ( what not if there be an idea of identity as to the body ? ) or such as are above the comprehension of reason when discovered . and they are either such as we have no natural ideas of ; and then you grant , that they are pure matters of faith ; or they are such , as you have certain ideas of , but not clear and distinct . now here lies the pinching difficulty , as to your way of ideas . you say indeed , that revelation must carry it against meer probabilities to the contrary ; because the mind not being certain of the truth of that it doth not evidently know , but is only probably convinced of , is bound to give up its assent to such a testimony , which it is satisfied comes from one who cannot err and will not deceive . i pray observe your own words , you here positively say , that the mind not being certain of the truth of that it doth not evidently know : so that it is plain here , that you place certainty only in evident knowledge , or in clear and distinct ideas ; and yet your great complaint of me was , that i charged this upon you , and now i find it in your own words ( which i observed before . ) but let us allow you all you desire , viz. that there may be certainty by ideas , where they are not clear and distinct : and let us now suppose that you are to judge of a proposition delivered as a matter of faith , where you have a certainty by reason from your ideas , such as they are : can you assent to this as a matter of faith , when you are already certain by your ideas of the contrary ? how is this possible ? can you believe that to be true , which you are certain is not true ? suppose it be that there are two natures in one person ; the question is , whether you can assent to this as a matter of faith ? if you had said , there had been only probabilities on the other side , i grant that you then say , revelation is to prevail ; but when you say you have certainty by ideas to the contrary , i do not see how it is possible for you to assent to a matter of faith as true , when you are certain from your ideas that it is not true : for how can you believe against certainty ? the evidence is not so great as when the ideas are clear and distinct , but the bar against assent is as strong ; because the mind is actually determined by certainty . and so your notion of certainty by ideas must overthrow the credibility of a matter of faith in all such propositions which are offered to be believed on the account of divine revelation . i shall now summ up the force of what i have said about this matter . your answer is , that your method of certainty by ideas , shakes not at all , nor in the least concerns the assurance of faith ▪ against this i have pleaded . ( . ) that your method of certainty shakes the belief of revelation in general . ( . ) that it shakes the belief of particular propositions or articles of faith , which depend upon the sense of words contained in scripture . because you do not say , that we are to believe all that we find there expressed ; but in case we have any clear and distinct ideas which limit the sense another way than the words seem to carry it , we are to judge that to be the true sense . but in case our ideas are not clear and distinct , yet you affirm as your proper doctrine , that we may come to certainty by ideas , although not in all respects perfectly clear and distinct . from whence i infer , that where you have attained to a certainty by your imperfect ideas , you must judge of a matter of faith , by those ideas , and consequently , if the union of two natures and one person , or three persons in one nature be repugnant to your ideas ( as i have shewed that they are ) you must by virtue of your own principles reject these from being matters of faith. and thus i hope i have proved what i undertook , viz. that your notion of certainty by ideas is inconsistent with these articles of the christian faith. but you have this comfort left , that you are not the first person who hath run himself into insuperable difficulties as to matters of faith , by this way of ideas . for des cartes himself did so in a remarkable manner : he was a person of a great reach and capacity , and spent many thoughts in laying the foundations of certainty from ideas , both as to incorporeal and corporeal substances ; and yet was miserably foiled as to both of them . his demonstrations from his ideas in his metaphysical meditations , did not meet with the entertainment he promised himself from the inquisitive part of mankind ; for his objective reality from his idea gave no satisfaction ; and his other argument was thought to have no force , unless it were taken off from the idea and placed upon the necessity of existence in the nature of the thing . as to corporeal substances , his fundamental mistake was in a wrong idea of matter , which he made to be the same with extension ; and upon this he built his systeme of nature . but against this first false step many things were objected by his adversaries , as may be seen by the late disputes in france about his principles ; they objected , that his notion or idea of matter made it necessary , and impossible for god to annihilate it ; and his defenders are driven to such shifts as to god's will and power , that an indifferent person might thereby see how dangerous it is to take up with ideas as to the ground of certainty , although neither himself nor his followers pretend to place it in any thing but clear and distinct ideas . but when they came to reconcile their ideas with matters of faith , they were so plunged , that they could see no way to get through their difficulties . for as monsieur huet observes , although des cartes professes great submission to divine revelation , yet when it came to the trial , he judged his opinions could not be repugnant to it , because he was certain of the truth of them ; which shews , that he judged of revelation by his rules of certainty , and whatever he pretended , he did not take his measures of truth from revelation . a late defender of des cartes in answer to this , produces the words used by him in his principles , wherein he owns , that in case of divine revelation if god declares any thing concerning himself or others which exceed our capacity , as the mysteries of the trinity and incarnation , he would not refuse to believe them , although he could not clearly understand them . this monsieur huet denies not , viz. that he made such a general profession of submission to revelation and owning the mysteries of faith ; but , saith he , when it comes to particular points , then ideas are to be the standard by which we are to judge of revelation . monsieur regis in his reply saith , that matters of faith and philosophical truths are of different kinds ; and that there can be no contrariety but between things of the same kind . which makes him run into that great absurdity , that although in a philosophical sense god cannot do things repugnant to reason , yet in the way of faith he may ; and all this to preserve the certainty by ideas , when nothing can be more repugnant to all kinds of certainty than such a supposition . but another great admirer of des cartes , thinks this way unreasonable ; but des cartes , he saith , hath shewn the right method of certainty by clear and distinct ideas , and therefore he calls it no less than a divine certainty ; and he adds , that truth cannot be contrary to it self ; and he laughs at the distinction of philosophical and theological truths ; or the two ways of certainty by knowledge and faith : for , truth is always one and the same , and changes not its countenance : and if truth be an agreement of words with things , how can the same words agree in one book and differ in another ? for the same god is the author of truth where-ever it is : and therefore he calls it , a most absurd opinion of those who say , that god who is immutable should teach that as truth in philosophy , which is false in divinity . but i return to you . you seem to be not a little concerned , that i say , that as you have stated your notion of ideas it may be of dangerous consequence to that article of the christian faith which i had endeavoured to defend . such an accusation , you say , brought into any court in england , would be thought to shew a great inclination to have the accused be suspected rather than any evidence of being guilty of any thing ; and so would immediately be dismissed without hearing any plea to it . but you must give me leave to say , that you have quite mistaken my design , which was not to accuse you , but to shew my own dissatisfaction , as to the way you had taken to clear your self . i hoped you would have said so much for your own vindication , as would have satisfied the world , that your notion of ideas was far from any tendency that way to which it was carried by him who made use of your expressions : but , instead of that you explained it in such a manner as made it far more suspicious that he had not perverted your meaning . and that made me to say , that as you had stated it , it may be of dangerous consequence . it may be , say you , this is no evidence , but only an inclination to accuse you . so far from it , that it shewed an inclination to favour you , when i only said it may be ; for now you see , that i think it is of such dangerous consequence , and i must think so till you have cleared it better . but the notion of ideas as you have stated it , relates to your whole book : why should you carry it farther than i intended it ? the stating of it i mentioned was in your first letter ; where you told us what you meant by nature and person . but you have found out two particulars wherein it may be of dangerous consequence , first in making so much use of the word ideas , and your placing certainty in ideas . as to the term of ideas , i have no objection to the use of the word it self ; provided it be used in a common sense , and no weight be laid upon it more than it can bear ; for i am for no new affected terms which are apt to carry mens minds out of the way ; they are like ignes fatui , which seem to give light , but lead those that follow them into bogs : like fontanges , which seem to set peoples heads that wear them higher , but their understandings are just what they were before . i always dislik'd the stoical improvements by new words , or giving new senses to old ones . but i told you , i should never have mention'd this way of ideas , but for the ill use i found made of them : and you might have enjoy'd the satisfaction you had in them long enough , unless i had found them imploy'd in doing mischief . which , as you humbly conceive amounts to thus much and no more ; that i fear ideas ; i. e. the term ideas may some time or other be of dangerous consequence . can you possibly think this was my meaning ? i know of no antipathy i have to the term ideas ; nor do i understand any mischief that lies in the bare use of the term. if it gives you any satisfaction i pray make what use you please of it , so you do not set it up in your way of ideas for a new method of certainty ; nor weaken mens belief as to matters of faith by it . these were my prejudices against your ideas , and they are increased by your defences ; for i can find nothing that hath any force to remove them . you tell me , my quarrel must be with the term ideas as of dangerous consequence : but why so ? it was the way of certainty by ideas which i insisted upon , and the new terms as imploy'd to that purpose . i confess , i say , the world had been strangely amuzed with ideas of late , and we have been told , what strange things might be done by the help of ideas , i. e. as to matter of certainty . but you tell me more than once , that i own , that these come only to be common notions of things , which i have no aversion from . this is a way of turning things upon me , which i could not expect from you. for those words are brought in by me on this occasion , you had said , that you see no such opposition , but that ideas and sound reason may stand together , i. e. reason rightly managing those ideas , so as to produce evidence by them . upon this , i used these words . but what need all this great noise about ideas and certainty ; true and real certainty by ideas , if after all it comes only to this , that our ideas only represent such things , from whence we bring arguments to prove the truth of things ? but the world hath been strangely amused , &c. judge now how fair and ingenuous this answer is . that which i bring in as a consequence of your assertion , you make to be my own sense as to your notion of ideas : when i all along distinguish the way of reason , by deducing one thing from another , from your way of certainty , in the agreement and disagreement of ideas ; and i therefore mention it as an argument of your own departing from your beloved notion of ideas . i never said any thing against reason rightly managing ideas , so as to produce evidence by them . i was glad you came so far towards my own apprehension as to the use of ideas , and i declare soon after that if you mean no more by your certainty from ideas , but a certainty from reason , i was not so unreasonable a man to disagree with you . and yet you spend many pages to justifie your use of the term ideas : which is all lost upon me . for in short , it is not your way of ideas , but your way of certainty by ideas , which i was unsatisfied about , and am so much the more by the method you have taken to defend your self . and this was the thing i found fault with , as you could not but see ; but you found it much easier to run into a long discourse , to no purpose , about the use of the word ideas . how far your use of the term is new i will not dispute with you ; be it new or old the thing you do pretend to by your ideas is that which i disliked , and am forced to do so still ; for you give me no manner of satisfaction about it , as will appear by the examination of what you say , about the new method of certainty , which is the matter in question : you desire to know whether there be any other or older method of certainty ? that is not the point , but whether yours be any at all ? which i deny . if there be no older , you say , the world is obliged to you for this new one : very true , if it were what it pretends . but you tell me , i ought to set the world right in a thing of that great concernment , and to overthrow yours , and thereby prevent the dangerous consequence of your unseasonable starting this new method of certainty . i did never pretend to inform the world of new methods , and therefore am not bound to go any farther than to that i found fault with , which was your new method ; and although i thought i had said enough before , to shew how far it was from what it pretended ; yet because you call me to it in such a manner , i shall endeavour more freely to represent to you the vnsatisfactoriness and inconsistency of it . for it is still to me a strange thing , that you should talk so much of a new method of certainty by ideas ; and yet allow , as you do , such a want of ideas , so much imperfection in them , and such a want of connexion between our ideas , and the things themselves . one would think , that he that owned these things rather design'd to prove there could be no certainty by ideas . and when i had objected these things in the conclusion of my former answer , you do not deny them ; and all the return you make is , that it is better to have some way of certainty ( though it will not lead us to it in every thing ) than no way at all . as though the dispute between us had been , whether any certainty be not better than none . no doubt any true certainty is desirable , but it is , as i have often said , of ill consequence to set up such a method of certainty , as if it hold , will overthrow our faith , and if it doth not , must deceive all those that follow it . and it is the certainty of faith which i defend against your pretended certainty of knowledge . but to let you see what ground i had to be unsatisfied with it , i shall now wave all the instances of ideas i insisted on before , as to substances and sensible qualities ; and i shall single out one remarkable idea , by which the uncertainty of your way of ideas will be fully discover'd . and that is the idea of space ; upon which a famous systeme of natural philosophy hath been built , and as upon a clear and distinct idea ; and yet you will by no means allow it to be so ; and think you have a clear idea to the contrary ; although those who will not allow it to be true cannot deny it to be consistent with it self , and that the ideas in it have an agreement with one another . as to space , you say , that we have it both by sight and touch , which inform us of the distance between bodies : which in several respects may be called distance , capacity and extension ; and so extension , you say , is an idea belonging to body only , but space may , as is evident , be consider'd without it . but here now arises a great difficulty to me in the way of certainty by ideas : viz. that some very thinking men in this way of ideas , have look'd on the idea of space , and extended matter to be the same ; for say they , it appears to us from clear ideas , that body and extension are the same thing , and therefore if there be extension in space there must be body . but , you say , those that do so , either change the signification of words , and so render it a doubtfull idea , or they confound very different ideas with one another , and so can never come to certainty by the agreement or disagreement of ideas . but you conclude , that the clear and distinct idea of simple space distinguishes it plainly and sufficiently from body . here we see you pretend to a clear and distinct idea . but it falls out very unluckily for the way of ideas , that the first starter of this way of certainty is as positive , that the idea of space and extended body are the same . so that here we have clear and distinct ideas both ways . and is not this an admirable method of certainty , when in one of the plainest ideas which depend upon our senses , the greatest defenders of ideas differ so fundamentally . what can other men hope for in this way of ideas , if such men can agree no better in one of the most evident to our senses ? but then we must consider , who hath the better reason ? this is not certainty by ideas , but by reason upon them , which is another thing : let us go to reason . is that reason built only on some intermediate idea , which makes it clear ? i find intermediate ideas on both sides , and urged with equal assurance . des cartes saith , that from extension we rightly conclude a body to be a substance ; because it is a repugnancy that there should be an extension of nothing ; and therefore , if there be extension in space there must be body . and he proves it from the idea of body ; for , if we cast off all such things as are not necessary to body , as hardness , colour , gravity , heat , and cold , and all other qualities , we shall find nothing to remain but extension , and therefore nothing but extension is in the idea of body , which being likewise in space the idea of body and space are the same . but say you on the other side , i appeal to every man 's own thoughts , whether the idea of space be not as distinct from that of solidity , as it is from the idea of a scarlet colour . 't is true , that solidity cannot exist without extension ; but this hinders not but they are distinct ideas . one appeals to thoughts , and the other to reason : had des cartes no thoughts ? yet his reason convinced him , that whatever thoughts he had , he must be perswaded by reason , which was the true idea . you say , that is a clear and distinct idea that a man's thoughts dictate to him to be so . no , saith des cartes , that only is the true idea , which a man comes to by the exercise of his reason ; and he look'd upon those others as meer ideas of imagination , and not rational ideas . so that here we have another work to do , and that no easie one , which is to distinguish the ideas of imagination from those of reason : and what way have you laid down to prevent so great a mistake ? of what rules have you to judge , how far imagination is to be allowed in the matter of ideas ? for in all objects of sense the impression is made upon the imagination ; which is the seat of ideas , that come in by sensation . now here lies a very considerable difficulty , how far reason is to judge of these ideas or imagination ? for if all our simple ideas of things without us come in by sensation , then one would think those ideas are to be allow'd which come in that way ; and so the impressions of fancy are to be the standard and rule of certainty , which i think you will not affirm . but what rule then have you when , and where , and how far , you are to correct the erroneous ideas of imagination ? i cannot deny but you were sensible of the difficulty from the ideas of imagination , and thus you propose it . to what purpose is all this stir ? knowledge , say you , is only the perception of the agreement or disagreement of our own ideas , but who knows what those ideas may be ? is there any thing so extravagant as the imagination of men's brains ? where is the head that hath no chimaera's in it ? or if there be a sober and wise man , what difference will there be by your rules between his knowledge , and that of the most extravagant fancy in the world : they both have their ideas , and perceive their agreement and disagreement one with another . let us now consider the answer you give to it , and by that we shall better judge of your way of certainty . your general answer is , that if our knowledge of our ideas terminate in our fancies , our assurance would go no farther than that of dreams , or the visions of a heated fancy . but our knowledge is real , only so far , as there is a conformity between our ideas , and the reality of things . all this is undoubtedly true . but you say , how shall the mind , when it perceives nothing but its own ideas , know that they agree with things themselves ? there indeed lies the difficulty , but how do you remove it ? there are two sorts of ideas , you say , we may be sure , agree with things . and these are worth the knowing . . the first are simple ideas , which since the mind can by no means make to it self , must necessarily be the product of things operating on the mind in a natural way . and producing therein those perceptions which by the wisdom and will of our maker they are adapted to . from whence it follows , that simple ideas are not fictions of our minds . all that can be proved from hence is no more , but that the objects of our senses do make those impressions upon them , that from them we may be certain there are such things without us , which produce those impressions . and this is all you mean when you say , that you are certain these ideas are no fictions of our brains . but let us apply this to the present case . our senses truly inform us of a distance between bodies ; and so far we are certain of an idea of space , but the question about the idea of space goes farther ; viz. whether the idea of space imply something or nothing ? how can nothing be extended ? if it be something extended it must be body ; and so space and body are the same . and so your simple ideas give no manner of satisfaction in this matter . . all our complex ideas , except those of substances , you say , being archetypes of the mind 's own making , not referr'd to the existence of any thing , cannot want any conformity necessary to real knowledge ; for that which is not designed to represent any thing but it self , can never be capable of a wrong representation , nor mislead us from the true apprehension of any thing by its dislikeness to it . where are we now ? what in the way to certainty still ? methinks it seems to be too intricate and winding to be that plain way . what is meant by these archetypes in the mind which cannot deceive us ? i confess here are such things said in order to certainty , which are above my understanding , if taken with respect to things ; as how we cannot but be infallibly certain , that all the knowledge we attain concerning these ideas is real , and reaches things themselves , and yet they are archetypes of the mind 's own making , not intended to be the copies of any thing , nor referr'd to the existence of any thing . how can the certainty by these ideas reach the things themselves , if they are archetypes of the mind , not referr'd to the existence of any thing ? but i suppose all this is meant of mathematical truths , and so reaches not the case , which is concerning the certainty of our knowledge of things that really exist . . you say , there is another sort of complex ideas , which being referr'd to archetypes without us may differ from them , and so our knowledge about them may come short of being real . now these were the things we desired to be made certain in ; and to find out such rules as would make our knowledge real . but for all that i can see , the hopes of any criterion is quite lost , as to the point in question : how shall the mind when it perceives nothing but its own ideas , know that they agree with the things themselves ? for upon these grounds we can have no certainty as to simple ideas , but only as to the power of making impressions on our senses ; but as to complex ideas as of substances , our knowledge about them may come short of being real , i. e. we cannot arrive to certainty about them in the way of ideas ; because , they may differ from the archetypes without us . and you confess , that our ideas are not very exact copies , and yet are the subjects of real , ( as far as we have any ) knowledge of them ; which will not be found to reach very far . but to make it real concerning substances , the ideas must be taken from the real existence of things . and if our complex ideas may deceive us as to the things from whence they are supposed to be taken , what an account of certainty in the way of ideas is here ? and yet you conclude this chapter in that triumphant manner ; i think i have shewn wherein it is that certainty , real certainty consists , which whatever it was to others was to me heretofore one of those desiderata's , which i found great want of : and for all that i can see may do so still . for here is nothing said to distinguish the strong impressions of fancy from the appearances of things , from that certainty of knowledge which comes from the things themselves . for , a confident opiniator will talk with greater assurance of the agreement and disagreement of things with his ideas ; than a man of far greater judgment and more modesty . and you have given us no rules to make a difference between opinion and rational certainty ; especially when the ideas of fancy are found to agree with one another . but i shall go a step farther to shew , that the agreement of ideas is no ground of certainty , and that from a supposition relating to the present case . we have seen how possible it is for an ingenious person skilled in the phaenomena of nature to contrive such an hypothesis , that one part may agree with another , so as that no discernible inconsistency may be found in it , and yet all this may be built on such a foundation , as cannot be consistent with your certainty by ideas ; nay , such as you are certain cannot be true . the hypothesis , i mean , is that of des cartes ; for allowing him his laws of motion , and his three elements , the phaenomena of nature , or the ideas of it agree with one another , and yet all this is built upon space being the same with body ; and consequently , that there can be no vacuum : upon which his laws of motion , and his solution of the phaenomena is all built . and therefore , when a learned man of our own objected that to him , and thought it of no great consequence to his philosophy ; he replied with some smartness , that he was mistaken , for he took it for one of the most certain principles of his philosophy . what certainty then can there be in ideas , when so absurd a principle as that shall be look'd on by so great a man , as so certain a thing in the way of ideas , as to build his whole system of natural philosophy upon it ? and his followers to this day stifly defend it , who are otherwise ingenious men. nothing now remains to be answer'd in your second letter , but what relates to the defence of what i had said in my book concerning nature and person . for i cannot but observe , that instead of clearing some pressing difficulties in my answer to your former letter , you run back to my book , and begin a new critique upon that part of it ; and take in the help of some ingenious persons of your acquaintance , to whom i must shew so much civility as to take notice of their objections . which i shall the rather do , because the doctrine of the trinity is expressed in the first article of our religion by one nature and three persons , and so it hath been understood by the christian church long before . and it is the sense of the christian church which i am bound to defend , and no particular opinions of my own . you tell me , that there hath not been one of your acquaintance who owned that he understood my meaning ; but confessed that the farther he look'd into what i had said , the more he was at a loss about nature and person . but i hope i am not to answer for other men's want of understanding in these matters : which requires greater application of mind , than most men are willing to allow themselves about them . but i am to judge no otherwise of their sense and capacity , than as you have represented them . one said i began with giving two significations of the word nature ; one of them , as it stood for properties ; and this he understood ; but the other wherein nature was taken for the thing it self , wherein those properties were , he said he did not understand . but he said he was not very well acquainted with greek , and aristotle was brought to explain and settle the sense of nature . but why did not this gentleman in the first place consider what it was i undertook to shew , which was , that we had an idea of nature , which came not in by our senses ; and in the very next words i said , that nature and substance are of an equal extent ; and so , that which is the subject of powers and properties is the nature , whether it be meant of bodily or spiritual substances . and although by sensation and reflection we know the powers and properties of things ; yet it is by reason we are satisfied there must be such a nature or substance , because it is impossible that they should subsist by themselves . methinks if the gentleman were so much at a loss as you represent him , you should have helped him out by your relative ideas : for hard things go down much better with some men's minds in the way of ideas , ( which is a sort of gilding the pills ) and i doubt not but you could have satisfied him , that the understanding may by virtue of a relative idea be very well satisfied of the being of nature , as well as substance , when i declared that i took them to be of equal extent ; as they were the subject of powers and properties . but he saith , that this he understood not , because nature extended to things that were not substances . did i not say , that nature was sometimes taken only for properties , but that there must be another sense proved , because there must be a subject wherein these properties are , and in that respect , i said , that nature and substance were of equal extent . but he doth not understand the deduction ; aristotle takes nature for a corporeal substance , therefore nature and substance are of an equal extent . what a hard fate doth that man lie under , that falls into the hands of a severe critick ! he must have a care of his but , and for , and them , and it ; for the least ambiguity in any of these will fill up pages in an answer , and make a book look considerable for the bulk of it . and what must a man do , who is to answer to all such objections about the use of particles ? but let any indifferent reader judge , how i am used in this place . my words are sometimes nature is taken for the thing it self in which those properties are ; and so aristotle took nature for a corporeal substance , which had the principles of motion in it self ; but nature and substance are of an equal extent . doth not any man of common sense see , that i oppose this to aristotle's sense of nature for a corporeal substance ? he confines it to that only ; i say , that it is of equal extent with substance whether bodily or spiritual : and those very words follow after . if you had really such a conversation with a gentleman , i am sorry for him ; and i think you did not deal so like a gentleman by him , to expose him thus to the world. but i perceive he is a philosopher too ; for he proves , that aristotle 's notion of nature for a corporeal substance will not hold . did i ever say that it would ? i am far enough from thinking , that a corporeal substance hath a principle of motion from it self ; but might not i mention aristotle's taking nature for a substance , although i presently add , his sense was too short and narrow , because nature and substance were of equal extent ? but did not his notion of nature imply that it was a principle of motion in it self ? whatever aristotle thought , the notion of nature doth not depend upon a principle of motion from it self ; but it was considered , not as in it self as the cause , but in it self as the subject . and that philosophical gentleman might be pleased to consider , that aristotle did not make motion to arise from matter , but asserted it to come from a first mover , and said , that those philosophers talked like men not well in their wits , who attributed motion to matter of it self ; as i could easily prove , if it were needful . and methinks you should not have been such a stranger to aristotle , to let your acquaintance run into such blunders , and then to print them for them . but the gentleman is farther plunged and knows not how to get out . he cannot for his life understand nature to be substance and substance to be nature ? where lies the difficulty ? is the repugnancy , in the words , or in the sense ? not in the words or sense either in greek or latin. for the greek , ( if i may have leave to mention that language in this case ) those who have been very well acquainted with the force of words therein , have made nature of the same importance with substance . so hesychius renders it by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , substance ; but i shall not bring the testimony of criticks but of philosophers . and aristotle may be allowed to understand his own language , he saith positively , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; every substance is called nature , and the reason he gives for it is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because nature is a substance . it may be said , that aristotle said this , because he took nature for such a substance as had the power of motion in it self ; i do not deny , but he look'd on that as the proper acception of nature ; but from hence it follows , that whatever substance had such a principle of motion in it self was truly and properly nature ; not as exclusive of a superiour principle of motion , but as having an internal self-moving principle . and herein aristotle differed from some modern philosophers , who make all motion to come from the impulse of another body , and to be a meer mode of matter continued from one body to another . i confess aristotle was of another opinion from those gentlemen , and look'd on motion as an effect of an inward principle ; and not meerly of an external impulse : but whether aristotle were mistaken herein is not the question ; and it is possible he was not ; however , it plainly appears , that substance with a power of motion in it self , and nature , had the same sense ; and none of those who have been the most severe criticks upon aristotle have disputed , that i remember , against this sense of nature in him . one of them finds this fault , that it was but a repetition of what he had said in his physicks ; where he doth likewise treat of the sense of nature . and there he takes it for such a substance which hath the principle of motion and rest within it self and by it self ; which he opposes to artificial things , as a bed or a garment . and as much as this definition hath been run down by some men , if we set aside some affected obscurity in his philosophical writings , there is no such absurdity in it ; when he explains himself not to understand it of meer local motion , or change of place , but of all alterations incident to bodies . so that nature in his sense , was a substance endued with a principle of life and action . and all those things which did partake of nature in this sense , he said , were substances ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for nature is always a subject and in a subject ; i. e. the substance it self is nature , and that which is in it is according to nature . and this sense of aristotle plutarch relies upon , as the true notion of nature which he saith is the principle of motion and rest ; because the beginning and ending of things depend upon it : but plutarch by no means approves of those mens opinion who made nature to be an original self-moving principle ; for , saith he , matter of it self cannot move without an efficient cause , no more than any metal can frame it self into a particular form without an artificer . from whence we see that aristotle's notion of nature was very consistent with an efficient cause of nature . but your gentleman saith , that to those who admit not matter and motion to be eternal , no nature in that sense will be left , since nature is said to be a corporeal substance which hath the principles of motion in it self , and such a sort of corporeal substance those men have no notion of at all , and consequently none of nature , which is such a corporeal substance . but if aristotle did not suppose matter to move it self , without an efficient cause , ( as certainly he did not ) then all this falls to the ground , and his notion of nature for a substantial principle of life and action may remain good . but it may be said , that this was one of his singular notions , and that no other philosophers took it so . which is so far from being true , that a great enemy of aristotle's confesses , that the name of nature among the writers before him extended to all kinds of beings , and not only to individual but to specifick natures . aristotle's fault lay in applying nature only to corporeal substances ; and whatever was above them he look'd on as above nature ; but the pythagoreans and platonists took nature to extend to spiritual as well as bodily substances . which appears by timaeus locrus his book of nature ; in the beginning whereof he divides things into two kinds , intellectual and corporeal ; and the former , whose nature was more excellent , he derives immediately from the best principle , viz. god himself . but to make this plainer , we are to consider , that there were four opinions , among the old philosophers about nature . some held nature to be the same with matter , and attributed the beginning of all things to that alone ; such were the followers of anaximander and democritus . others rejected this doctrine as absurd and impious , and held a divine being above matter , which gave the beginning to motion and framed the world , and they asserted spiritual as well as corporeal natures , and these were the followers of pythagoras and anaxagoras . others asserted the beginning of motion and of the world from a first cause ; but confined the sense of nature to the course of things established in this visible world by an universal providence at first . and this was the notion of aristotle and his followers to the time of strato who attributed all to meer nature . lastly , there were some who made nature to be the first principle which formed all things ; which sometimes they called god , and sometimes nature , as is obvious in all the writings of the stoicks ; vis illum naturam vocare ? non peccabis ; saith seneca : and in another place , quid aliud est natura , quam deus & divina ratio ? and again , nec deus sine naturâ est , nec natura sine deo , sed idem est utrumque , which he elsewhere calls , incorporalis ratio ingentium operum artifex . with which balbus in cicero agrees , when he defines nature from zeno , to be an intelligent fire that produces all things . for what he calls ignem artificiosum ad gignendum , &c. laertius calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and it is called in cicero , natura artifex , consultrix & provida , &c. which can agree to nothing but a spiritual substance ; and when he explains what nature is , he saith , that epicurus called all by the name of nature ; and divided it into matter and vacuity and the accidents of both : but we ( saith he of the stoicks ) by nature understand no inanimate things which have no principle within to unite them , as earth and stones ; but a living substance , as an animal , in which is no chance , but order and contrivance . and so plato said , that nature ordered all things with reason and vnderstanding . by which he understood the divide being . if we come lower down among the philosophers , we shall find nature taken for a principle of life . so sextus empiricus distinguishes the union of matter in stones and wood from that which is in plants , and this he calls nature , which is the lowest degree of it ; for afterwards , he speaks of rational and intellectual natures , and places god in the head of them . antoninus distinguishes nature in plants from a heap of the particles of matter in wood and stone . but in another place he distinguishes that which is meer nature in man , viz. what he hath in common with plants , from the nature of an animal in him ; and that again from the nature of a rational creature in him . here indeed he speaks of the properties of those natures ; but he still supposes , that where they are separate , they are founded in distinct substances . so that i hope , if the philosophers of old , of all kinds did understand the sense of nature and substance , the gentleman may not continue in such a peremptory humour of saying , that for his life he cannot understand nature to be substance , nor substance to be nature . for they all agreed in this , however they differed in their opinions of nature . but i have something farther to add concerning the sense of the christian church in this matter ; which i think is by no means to be despised . it is observed by damascen , that some of the philosophers made this difference between 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; that the former was taken for simple essence , but the latter for essence with a specifical difference ; but that the christian writers took both of them for that which was common to more than one , as an angel , a man , a horse , &c. so st. chrysostom calls angels 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and theodoret 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , st. basil 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; but they all agree , that incorporeal and invisible substances are real natures . and the reason damascen gives is , that they have both the same original ( and you know that it is a good way to find out the true idea ) for as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , both which are the same . so that if real existence belong to substance , and nature hath its name from thence too , then substance and nature must be of the same importance . and this notion of nature they do not take up meerly from the etymology of the word , but from the sense of it in scripture ; as when st. paul saith , they worshipped those which by nature are no gods ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as the alexandrian copy hath it more clearly ; i. e. which are not really and substantially gods. they had the names of gods , and the divine properties were attributed to them ; but because they had not the divine essence , they are said not to be gods by nature . and what sense would this gentleman make of the apostle's words , who cannot for his life understand that nature is the same with substance ? he must understand this only of the properties which belong to god. but these properties must be somewhere , and so a substance must be supposed as the subject of them ; and what reason can there be to exclude that which is the subject of those properties ? for there must be a divine being , as well as properties ; and that being must have essential properties belonging to it ; and what imaginable reason can there be , why that should not be called the divine nature ? and if it be , then substance and nature are the same . i might easily pursue this farther , but i design to bring things into as little a compass as i can . but it may be there is something in our own language which hinders nature from being taken for a substance ; and for this i appeal to a late ingenious and honourable person and philosopher of our own ; i mean mr. boyle , who hath written a philosophical enquiry into the notion of nature ; and he tells us of the various acceptations of it . ( . ) for the author of nature . ( . ) for the essence of a thing . ( . ) for what comes to men by birth ; as a man is noble by nature . ( . ) for an internal principle of motion : as that a stone is carried downwards by nature . ( . ) for the established course of things ; as that nature makes the night to succeed the day . ( . ) for an aggregate of powers belonging to a living body ; as that nature is strong or weak . ( . ) for the system of the universe ; as when we say of a chimaera , there is no such thing in nature . ( . ) for a semi-deity ; which is the notion he opposes . but we may observe , that he allows god and all the real beings of the vniverse to have nature belonging to them ; and he saith , the word essence is of great affinity to it , if not of an adequate import . but the real essence of a thing is a substance ; and therefore nature and substance are of the like importance . the next thing fit to be considered is , how far your certainty by ideas and the certainty by reason differ from each other . the occasion of this debate stands thus . i had said in my book , that i granted , that by sensation and reflection we come to know the powers and properties of things ; but our reason is satisfied , that there must be something beyond these , because it is impossible that they should subsist by themselves . so that the nature of things properly belongs to our reason and not to meer ideas . in answer to this you said , that you can find no opposition between ideas and reason ; but ideas are the objects of the vnderstanding , and vnderstanding is one of the faculties imployed about them . to which i replied , no doubt of it . but you might easily see , that by reason i understood principles of reason , allow'd by mankind ; which i think are very different from ideas . but i perceive reason in this sense is a thing you have no idea of , or one as obscure as that of substance . if there be any thing which seems too sharp and reflecting in the manner of expression , i do not go about to defend it ; but the worst of it is , that your idea of reason is as obscure as that of substance . and whether there were not a just occasion for it , the reader must judge when the faculty was put for the principles of reason . could any man judge otherwise , but that you had a very obscure idea of reason , who could mistake the vnderstanding for it ? but reason , you say , taken for the faculty is as different from ideas in your apprehension . but what is that to the point in dispute , whether the notion of nature be to be taken from ideas or from reason ? you say , the vnderstanding is imploy'd about them . and what then ? i shewed that the nature of things belongs to reason and not to bare ideas ; because ideas come in by sensation and reflection ; by which we come to know the powers and properties of things ; but we cannot come to know the notion of nature as the subject of them , but by this reason that we are convinced they cannot subsist of themselves . and is this no more than to say , the vnderstanding is imployed about ideas ? but now you answer farther , that if reason be taken for the faculty or the principles of reason allowed by mankind , reason and ideas may consist together . this leads me to the examination of that which may be of some use , viz. to shew the difference of your method of certainty by ideas , and the method of certainty by reason . and the way of certainty by reason lies in two things ; . the certainty of principles . . the certainty of deductions . as to the former , the gentleman your defender in your book saith , that in your essay , in more places than one , you have spoken , and that pretty largely of self-evident propositions and maxims ; so that if i have ever read them , i cannot doubt , but you have ideas of those common principles of reason . what ideas you have of them must appear from your book . and i do there find a chapter of self-evident propositions and maxims ; which i cannot but think extraordinary for the design of it ; which is thus summed up in the conclusion , viz. that it was to shew , that these maxims , as they are of little use where we have clear and distinct ideas , so they are of dangerous use , where our ideas are not clear and distinct . and is not this a fair way to convince me that your way of ideas is very consistent with the certainty of reason ; when the way of reason hath been always supposed to proceed upon general principles ; and you assert them to be vseless and dangerous . your first design you say is to prove , that the consideration of these general maxims can add nothing to the evidence or certainty of knowledge ; which overthrows all that which hath been accounted science and demonstration , and must lay the foundation of scepticism . because our true grounds of certainty depend upon some general principle of reason . to make this plain , i shall put a case grounded upon your words , which are , that you have discoursed with very rational men , who have actually denied that they are men. these words , i. s. understands as spoken of themselves , and charges them with very ill consequences ; but i think they are capable of another meaning : however , let us put the case that men did in earnest question , whether they were men or not ; and then i do not see , if you set aside general maxims , how you can convince them that they are men. for , the way i look on as most apt to prevail upon such extraordinary sceptical men , is by general maxims and principles of reason . as in the first place , that nothing can have no properties ; which i take to be the fundamental principle of certainty , as to real beings . for , all our inward perceptions are only of some acts or properties , as of thinking , doubting , reasoning , &c. and if a man proceeds so far as to question every thing , in order to the discovering the true ground of certainty , he cannot be satisfied with finding out only some modes of being ; but that which he aims at is , satisfaction as to his real existence . but this wholly depends upon the truth and certainty of this fundamental maxim ; that nothing can have no operations ; and therefore , whatever thinks , or doubts , or reasons , must certainly be . and since by another fundamental maxim , it is impossible for the same thing to be and not to be ; he cannot entertain any possible doubt of his own existence . it may be said , that this reaches only to bare existence , and not to the being men. i answer , that for the certainty as to that , there are other general maxims of necessary use ; as , that all different sorts of beings are distinguished by essential properties ; that the essential properties of a man are to reason , discourse , &c. that these properties cannot subsist by themselves without a real substance : and therefore , where these properties are found , those who have them must be real and substantial men. you may possibly say , that these maxims are useless , because you affirm that nothing can be more evident to us , than our own existence ; and that we have an internal infallible perception that we are . but i answer , that these maxims do not at all appear to be useless , because the certainty we enquire after is a certainty of reason , and not of bare perception . and if it be a certainty of reason , some ground of reason must be assigned for it : but all that the perception reaches to , are those acts mention'd by you . i think , i reason , i feel pleasure and pain : but the question goes farther as to the subject of those acts , and the nature of that subject , whether it be a man or not . now here lies the main difficulty , whether without the help of these principles you can prove to any that doubt , that they are men ? and i shall now shew , that in your way of ideas you cannot . for , ( ) you suppose that we must have a clear distinct idea of that which we are certain of in the way of ideas . ( ) you deny that we have any such clear and distinct idea of man. . you suppose , that we must have a clear and distinct idea of that we are certain of . for in your chapter of maxims , you say , that every one knows the ideas that he has , and that distinctly and unconfusedly one from another . which always being so ( i pray mark that , and judge whether you do not make clear and distinct ideas necessary to certainty ) he can never be in doubt when any idea is in his mind , that it is there , and is that idea it is , and that two distinct ideas when they are in his mind are there , and are not one and the same idea : from whence you infer the necessity of certainty , when the ideas are clear and distinct . this is so plain and clear , that i wonder how you came to forget it , and to think that i did you wrong when i charged you with holding clear and distinct ideas necessary to certainty . but of that in the beginning of this discourse . . but let us now examine your idea of man , whether that be clear and distinct or not ; and if not , then according to your principles very rational men cannot be certain that they are men. for if they have no way of certainty but by ideas , and you allow no clear and distinct idea of man , then they can come to no certainty ; and i hope you will not deny them to be very rational men , if they follow the way of ideas . first , you shew , that there can be no demonstration in the way of principles what man is . secondly , that there are very different ideas of man , some , you say , make the idea of a man without a soul ; as children do . others add laughter and rational discourse , and these may demonstrate by general principles that ideots and infants are no men by this maxim , that it is impossible for the same thing to be , and not to be ; and you have discoursed with very rational men , who have actually denied that they are men. others take in the idea of body in general , and the powers of language and reason , and leave out shape ; and so a man may be a four-footed creature , or in whatever body or shape he found speech and reason joined , that was a man. but where is the clear and distinct idea of a man all this while ? we can have no certainty by principles , you say , and you offer none in the way of ideas ; for the ideas are very confused , imperfect and repugnant to each other ; and so in this new method of certainty by ideas , we cannot be so much as certain that we are men. but is it possible to suppose , that a rational man should talk of certainty by ideas , and not be able to fix the idea of a man ? one would have thought this had been only an omission in this place out of pure zeal against principles ; but certainly in other places this idea of a man must be made clear and distinct . so far from it , that in other places , you industriously set your self to disprove the common idea of a man. it could not possibly be , say you , that the abstract idea to which the name man is given , should be different in several men , if it were of natures making ; and that to one it should be animal rationale ; to another animal implume bipes latis unguibus . from whence it is plain , that you allow no clear and distinct idea of man ; and you endeavour to expose the sacred definition , as you call it , of animal rationale ; which was never exposed by any man without cause . but you conclude , that we are far from knowing certainly what man is ; though perhaps it will be judged great ignorance to doubt about it . and yet you think you may say , that the certain boundaries of that species are so far from being determined , and the precise number of simple ideas , which make that nominal essence so far from being setled and perfectly known , that very material doubts may still arise about it . so that i begin to think i. s. was in the right , when he made you say , that you had discoursed with very rational men who denied themselves to be men. but this is a little too hard to deny themselves to be men. if it had been only , who doubted whether they were men or not ; you could not deny them to be very rational men , because they went upon your grounds , that we can have no certainty either by principles , or by any clear and distinct ideas , what a man is . thus i have shew'd how inconsistent your way of ideas is with true certainty ; and of what use and necessity these general principles of reason are . i now come to the certainty of reason in making deductions . and here i shall briefly lay down the grounds of certainty , which the ancient philosophers went upon , and then compare your way of ideas with them . aristotle observes , that socrates first brought in definitions and inductions in order to certainty ; and went no farther . plato allowed no certainty , but only opinion , as to external objects ; but he said ▪ that certainty depended upon abstract and separate ideas , which were always the same . this he took , ( as i observed in my former letter ) from the pythagoreans , only changing numbers into ideas . for by numbers , they understood first principles , not gross and material ; but immaterial and eternal , as iamblichus saith ; and therefore moderatus gaditanus , one of the most understanding men among them saith , the pythagoreans brought in numbers , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for a more decent way of instruction , following the practice of geometricians , who make use of figures to represent things to the mind ; and therefore their doctrine of numbers was the philosophy of principles , or the general grounds of certainty ; but this was so abstruse and so little understood , that it soon lost its reputation , as porphyry observes , or was mixed with plantonism ; and therefore photinus joins the pythagorean and platonick principles together . but aristotle was a great enemy to these abstracted speculations , and therefore set himself so much on all occasions against ideas and numbers , especially in his metaphysicks . but instead thereof , he endeavour'd to bring down certainty to material things , and to real beings . in order to this , he saw it necessary to avoid confusion , by explaining doubtfull terms , and by ranking things under several heads , which he called categories ; wherein all things are reduced to substance , and accidents belonging to them ; to which he joins some general discourses about the right apprehension of things simply consider'd . but it is observable , that in all the categories from archytas the pythagorean downwards , ( who first placed them in that order , ) substance was first ranked , as the most proper idea of the mind , and all accidents or modes were consider'd with respect to that . and the french cartesians in their logick , place substance as the first object of their ideas : and do not leave us a relative idea , to be supposed only , because accidents cannot subsist without a subject . then follows the way of understanding the truth and falshood of propositions ; after which , he pursues the way of reasoning , or inferring one thing from another , which he calls syllogizing , wherein he professes to go upon this common principle of reason , that what things do agree in a third must agree among themselves . but being not content with the ordinary dialectical way , which proceeded upon the concessions of the party , he attempted to bring in true demonstration . to which he supposes general axioms necessary , and definitions , and postulata : and he distinguishes between a necessary conclusion , and a demonstration ; for the former may arise from the manner of reasoning ; but a demonstration supposes a necessary cause , and that the propositions are such as that the conclusion necessarily follows from them . so that demonstration according to him must be of an inseparable property , and by the most immediate and necessary cause . how far aristotle's notion of demonstration can be applied to physical matters is not my business to enquire ; it being only to shew what his method of certainty was . but besides aristotle , the stoicks took upon them to lay down the true method of certainty ; and they went another way to work about it , viz. ( . ) by finding out the criterion of truth and falshood . ( . ) by examining the consequences and deductions of reason . as to things which had some degree of evidence to sense or reason , they made the criterion necessary , but for those which had not , but must be proved , the examination of that proof was necessary in order to certainty . the criterion was agreed to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the measure whereby we are to judge of things . but as in the use of balances for weight , there must be one to hold them , and the balances themselves , and the position of them ; and as in the judging of a line , whether straight or crooked , there must be the artificer , the rule and the application of it ; so in judging of truth and falshood , there must be the faculty of understanding as the artificer , sense and reason as the rule ; and the inward ideas of the mind , which answer'd to the position of the balances , or the application of the rule . now that which they placed their notion of certainty in , was that inward and comprehensive idea , which was called by them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . if it were a weak assent , they called it opinion ; for they made the assent voluntary , notwithstanding the criterion ; but if it were a firm and immoveable assent , that they called knowledge and certainty . but besides these comprehensive ideas they did allow of common notions , which they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or anticipations : of which arrian speaks ; and simplicius saith , they are those wherein all are agreed , and are planted in us by right reason , and confirmed by time and observation . as to the other part , they took great pains about the true signification of words , the rank and order of things , the nature and kind of propositions , and the difference of signs , whereof some were monitory , and others demonstrative . and the proving a thing uncertain , by something granted to be certain , was that which they called demonstration . according to the principles of the eleatick school , the most simple and natural way of reasoning was supposed to be by drawing consequences upon suppositions , and the way the stoicks took to judge of reasoning , was by judging what approached nearest to the first principles of reasoning ; such as that every thing we talk about either must be or not be ; and in such disjunct propositions , one part or other must be taken , and then a train of consequences follows . and plutarch , no friend to the stoicks , thinks this faculty of drawing consequences , lays the best foundation for demonstration . for the principle of it , he saith , is the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the connex way of reasoning ; that is as simplicius explains it , when two things are so joyned together as antecedent and consequent , that by position of the antecedent , the consequent follows , and by taking away the consequent , the antecedent is removed . thus i have , in as few words , as i could , laid together those old methods of certainty , which have obtained greatest reputation in the world. but your way of certainty by ideas is so wholly new , that here we have no general principles ; no criterion , no antecedents and consequents ; no syllogistical methods of demonstration ; and yet we are told of a better way of certainty to be attained , meerly by the help of ideas . but how comes there to be such a way of certainty by ideas , and yet the ideas themselves are so uncertain and obscure ? i confess , that the more i look into it , the farther it appears to be from a way of certainty to me . for in your chapter of the improvement of knowledge , you have these words ; for it being evident that our knowledge cannot exceed our ideas , where they are imperfect , confused or obscure , we cannot expect to have certain , perfect , or clear knowledge . and yet how often do you confess , that our ideas are imperfect , confused , and obscure ? how then is it possible to attain to any certainty by them ? and notwithstanding these plain words , you assert it over and over in your second letter , as appears in the beginning , that you do not place certainty in clear and distinct ideas , ( as i observed in the beginning . ) how can these things consist ? can certainty be had with imperfect and obscure ideas , and yet no certainty be had by them ? i cannot blame you for finding fault with common principles of reason , if both parts of a contradiction may be true : but i forbear . however i cannot but join other words of yours to shew how resolved you were to be inconsistent with your self : but obscure and confused ideas can never produce any clear or distinct knowledge ; because as far as any ideas are confused or obscure , so far the mind can never perceive clearly , whether thy agree or disagree . and yet in the same place , you say , that our knowledge consisting in the perception of the agreement or disagreement of any two ideas , its clearness or obscurity consists in the clearness or obscurity of that perception , and not in the clearness or obscurity of the ideas themselves . how is it possible for us to have a clear perception of the agreement of ideas , if the ideas themselves be not clear and distinct ? if the mind can never perceive clearly , the agreement or disagreement of obscure and confused ideas , how can its knowledge lie in the perception of that which is not to be perceived ? this is a thing which i cannot make consistent . but besides , i have another charge upon your way of certainty , viz. that you have no criterion to distinguish false and doubtfull ideas from true and certain ; how then can any man be secure that he is not imposed upon in this way of ideas ? the academicks went too far in the way to scepticism , but they differ'd from the scepticks in two things . . they asserted , that there was no absolute certainty to be had , which the scepticks would not . . they held a far greater probability in some things than others , and that men were bound to follow the greatest probability in what concern'd their own welfare : but the scepticks said , that they would do as others did , or follow inclination , and the laws of their country , but they held no opinion in their minds , as they said . the academicks went much upon ideas , or representations of things to their minds , but they did not proceed upon every idea , but they examin'd and weighed all the circumstances belonging to it , before they allow'd it to prevail upon them to give an assent as to a greater probability . carneades , one of the subtilest of them , as appears by sextus empiricus , distinguished a three-fold idea . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a probable idea ; which the academicks called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for , said he , neither that which appears false of it self ; nor that which is true , but doth not appear so , can perswade a man's mind . and of those things which do appear to be true , some have a very slender appearance , others have a mighty strong one , and therein he placed his criterion . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an undistracted idea ; i. e. when no circumstances disturb or shake the first impression , so as to make us question the truth of it ; which sextus empiricus calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a concurrence of ideas and none disagreeing , and yet he would not allow this to be a ground of certainty but only of probability . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a well examin'd idea , by the best reason a man hath and the greatest application of mind . and this was the foundation of the highest probability a man's mind could reach to . now to apply this to your case ; you tell us of a way of certainty by ideas , and never offer any such method for examining them , as the academicks required for their probability . as for instance , your first idea which you go upon , is that of solidity , which , you say , of all others seems the most intimately connected with and essential to body : and therefore must be of great moment . solidity , you say , consists in repletion and resistence ; and by this idea of solidity the extension of body , you say , is distinguished from that of space ; so that of pure space and solidity you have clear and distinct ideas . now here in the way of certainty i have two questions to ask . . how this idea comes to be clear and distinct to you , when others who go in the same way of ideas have quite another idea of it , and think they have as plain and distinct an idea that the extension of space and body are the same ? now , what criterion is there to come to any certainty in this matter ? i see none so much as offer'd , but only that they seem to you to be clear and distinct , but to others the contrary . so that here we are at a loss as to any certainty in the way of ideas . and the blind man who fansied the idea of scarlet to be like the sound of a trumpet , could hardly be convinced of his error in the way of ideas . this you mention to shew the different ideas men may fall into ; which i think is enough to shew that they have no way to certainty in themselves , if it be possible for men , even for philosophical and rational men , to fall into such contrary ideas about the same thing ; and both sides think their ideas clear and distinct . . but i have another question to propose ; viz. whether by this idea of solidity we may come to know what it is ? this is a very reasonable question in the way of certainty , which is to lead us to the certain knowledge of things . i pray therefore tell me from your idea , what it is , and wherein it consists ? the question you suppose might be very well asked ; and you give a most satisfactory answer to it . if any ask me what this solidity is , i send him to his senses to inform him . i had thought by the design of your book you would have sent him to his ideas for certainty ; and are we sent back again from our ideas to our senses ? what do these ideas signifie then ? but you say farther ; that if this be not a sufficient explication of solidity , you promise to tell him what it is , when he tells you , what thinking is , or explains to you what extension and motion are . are we not now in the true way of certainty ; when such things as these are given over , of which we have the clearest evidence by sensation and reflection ? for here you make it as impossible to come to certain , clear and distinct notions of these things , as to discourse into a blind man the ideas of light and colours . is not this a rare way of certainty ? thus i have shewed that you have no security against false and uncertain ideas , no criterion to judge them by ; no light into the nature of things by them , as will farther appear by what you say of the ideas of sensible qualities . to discover , say you , the nature of our ideas the better , and to discourse of them intelligibly , it will be convenient to distinguish them , as they are ideas or perceptions in our minds ; and as they are modifications of matter in the bodies that cause such perceptions in us : that so we may not think ( as perhaps is usually done ) that they are exactly the images and resemblances of something inherent in the subject : most of those of sensation being in the mind no more the likeness of something existing without us , than the names that stand for them are the likeness of our ideas , which yet upon hearing they are apt to excite in us . now here again our ideas deceive us , in the way of certainty . we desire to know something of the nature of those objects of which we have the ideas in our minds , because these we are told , will bring us to a certainty of knowledge . of what ? of what we feel ? no certainly , but of that which causes these inward perceptions . can we then by these ideas know the nature of things without us ? no , you say we cannot ; for most of those of sensation are no more the likeness of something without us , than names are for things which they stand for . so that these ideas are really nothing but names , if they be not representations of things ; and if they be not , how can we understand things by them ; and if we cannot , what certainty is attainable by them ? but i will do you no wrong ; and therefore i must consider what you say about demonstration : for it cannot be denied that you own the thing , although you deny it to be ex proecognitis & proeconcessis , and say , it is a mistake that they are supposed to be the foundations of all our knowledge and reasonings . we must therefore examine your way of demonstration without principles . certainty , you say , depends so wholly on intuition , that in demonstrative knowledge , this intuition is necessary in all the connexion of the intermediate ideas , without which we cannot attain knowledge or certainty . by intuition you mean self-evidence . for you say , in this the mind is at no pains of proving or examining , but perceives the truth as the eye doth light only by being directed towards it . for hence you must suppose self evidence to be in the ideas of your mind ; and that every intermediate idea which you take to demonstrate any thing by , must have a self-evident connexion with the other idea : which is such a way of demonstration , as the old philosophers never thought of . for upon this ground every demonstration carries its own light with it ; and can no more be questioned , than whether two and two make four ; and i would be glad to see any demonstration ( not about figures and numbers ) of this kind , which i think is not to be expected in the way of ideas . but because in this lies the chief point as to a way of certainty by ideas , i shall more carefully examine the grounds you proceed upon , and shew them to be very insufficient for the purpose you intend them . your principal ground is from mathematical demonstrations , and your examples are brought from them . but his is quite a different case from yours . for you grant , that those ideas on which mathematical demonstrations proceed , are wholly in the mind , and do not relate to the existence of things ; but our debate goes upon a certainty of the knowledge of things as really existing ; so that , although we should grant all that you say , about the intuition of ideas in mathematical demonstrations , yet it comes not at all to your business , unless you can prove that we have as clear and distinct ideas of beings , as we have of numbers and figures . and yet herein you are not consistent with your self ; for you design to prove demonstrations without general principles ; and yet every one knows , that general principles are supposed in mathematicks , and that person would be thought ridiculous , who should go about to prove , that general principles are of little , or of dangerous use in mathematical demonstrations . and so in morality , which you place among the sciences capable of demonstration ; you confess , that the way of demonstration therein is from principles , as those of the mathematicks , by necessary consequences . this is a very intelligible way of demonstration : but how then comes it to pass , that in the way of certainty by ideas as to other points of knowledge , you deny general maxims to be the foundation we are to proceed upon ? and the method you lay down , is this , that ideas of particular things are first in the mind , which are first received and distinguished , and so knowledge got by them ; but general ideas are fictions and contrivances of the mind , which carry difficulty with them ; but that it is true of our particular distinct ideas , that they are all known by their native evidence , are wholly independent , receive no light , nor are capable of proof one from another ; much less the more particular from the more general , or the more simple from the more compounded , the more simple and less abstract being the most familiar , and the easier and earlier apprehended . but which ever be the clearest ideas , the evidence and certainty of all such propositions is in this , that a man sees the same idea to be the same idea , and infallibly perceives two different ideas to be two different ideas . for when a man has in his vnderstanding the ideas of one and of two , the idea of yellow and of blue , he cannot but certainly know , that this idea of one is the idea of one , and not the idea of two ; and that the idea of yellow is the idea of yellow , and not of blue . for a man cannot confound the ideas in his mind , which he has distinct ; that would be to have them confused and distinct at the same time , which is a contradiction : and to have none distinct is to have no use of our faculties , to have no knowledge at all . and therefore , what idea soever is affirmed of it self ; or whatsoever two entire distinct ideas are denied one of another , the mind cannot but assent to such a proposition , as infallibly true , assoon as it understands the terms without hesitation , or need of proof , or regarding those made in more general terms , and called maxims . these are your own words , which i have set down at large , that you may not complain that i misrepresent your sense . and if i understand the force of them , you take off the way of demonstration from general principles and consequences deduced from them , and place it in the self-evidence of ideas . but that it is impossible to come to a demonstration about real beings , in this way of intuition of ideas , i shall now make appear from your self , which will farther discover the inconsistency of your notion of ideas . and the reasons i go upon are these ; . that you confess , that some of the most obvious ideas are far from being self-evident . . that there may be contradictory opinions about some ideas , which you account most clear and distinct . . that granting the ideas to be true , there is no self-evidence of the connexion of them , which is necessary to make a demonstration . . that some of the most obvious ideas , are far from being self-evident by your own confession . among these you cannot deny those of matter and motion , of time and duration , and of light , to be very considerable . but i shall prove from your self , that we can have no intuition of these things , which are so obvious to us ; and consequently can have no self-evident ideas of them . as to the idea of matter : that you tell us , consists in a solid substance every where the same ; and a body is a solid extended figured substance . now there are two things concerning matter , which i would be glad to come to a certain knowledge of . and those are , . the manner of cohesion of the parts of matter , concerning which you have these words . for since no body is no farther , nor otherwise extended , than by the vnion and cohesion of its solid parts , we shall very ill comprehend the extension of body , without understanding , wherein consists the vnion and cohesion of its parts , which seems to me as incomprehensible as the manner of thinking , and how it is performed . i would have any one intelligibly explain to me , how the parts of gold or brass ( that but now in fusion were as loose from one another , as the particles of water , or the sands of an hour-glass ) come in a few moments to be so united , and adhere so strongly one to another , that the utmost force of men's arms cannot separate them . a considering man will i suppose be here at a loss , to satisfie his own or another man's vnderstanding . and can you then imagine that we have intuition into the idea of matter ? or that it is possible to come to a demonstration about it by the help of any intervening idea ? the idea of solidity , or firm cohesion of parts cannot be said to come from the idea of matter it self , for then there could be no such thing as fluid matter . whence then comes the distinction between these ideas of solid and fluid matter ? that there is such a cohesion of the solid parts of matter is evident : now what other ideas do you compare and connect with this to make it evident , how this solidity and matter came to have this agreement with each other ? is it by the density or compactedness of the matter in a little compass ? but that is as hard to give an account of ; viz. how some parts of matter come to take up so much less room , and to stick closer than others . is it by bare rest of the parts ? but how comes the resistance of solid bodies to come only from rest ? is it from the pressure of the ambient air ? no you say , that in truth the pressure of an ambient fluid how great soever , can be no intelligible cause of the cohesion of the solid parts of matter . so that we are not to look for any thing like a demonstration of the cohesion of the parts of matter . . and as little are we to expect it , as to the divisibility of it ; which was the other thing i hoped to find demonstrated in the way of ideas . for you tell us , that the notion of body is cumbred with some difficulties which are very hard , and perhaps impossible to be explained , or understood by us . and among these you particularly instance in the divisibility of matter ; which you say , whether we grant or deny it to be in infinitum , it involves us in consequences , impossible to be explicated or made consistent . consequences that carry greater difficulty , and more apparent absurdity than any thing can follow from the notion of an immaterial knowing substance . so that i think it is vain to expect a demonstration in the way of ideas as to this matter . the next is that of motion . concerning which you tell us , that the definition of the schools is exquisite iargon : that of the atomists is but putting one synonymous word for another ; viz. that motion is a passage from one place to another : for passage may as well be defined a motion from one place to another . and the cartesian definition , that it is the successive application of the parts of the superficies of one body to those of another , will not prove a much better definition of motion when well examin'd . and what is there so evident as motion ? so that if our ideas fail us in so plain a case , what help can we hope from them in things more abstruse and remote from our senses ? as to time and duration , you say , that the answer of a great man ( to one who asked what time was , si non rogas , intelligo , which amounts to this , the more i set my self to consider it , the less i understand it ) might perhaps perswade one , that time , which reveals all other things , is it self not to be discover'd . this shews , that there is no self-evident idea of time. but here you offer to furnish us with as clear and distinct ideas , as of many other which are thought much less obscure . however , then it is plain , that we have not the knowledge by intuition , but by rational deduction . for you proceed from the idea of succession , to that of duration ; by observing a distance in the parts of succession ; and then from observing periodical motions , we get ideas of the measures of duration , as minutes , hours , days , years , &c. from hence we proceed to imagine duration not yet come ; and such to which we can always add ; from which comes the idea of eternity : and by considering any part of duration with periodical measures , we come to the idea of what we call time in general . so that the idea of time in general is so far from being known by intuition , that many steps are to be taken in order to it ; and some such as one would hardly have thought of . as how the idea of succession should arise from a train of ideas in our minds : you say it is , because we have no perception of duration , but by considering the train of ideas , that take their turns in our vnderstandings . what think you of those people that fail'd not in reckoning the succession of time right for many years together by knots , and notches on sticks , and figures , without ever so much as thinking of ideas , or any thing like them ? but besides , such arbitrary measures of time , what need any recourse to ideas , when the returns of days and months and years by the planetary motions , are so easie and so universal ? if a man hath no perception of duration when he sleeps , yet the time runs on , and nights have as much their share in succession as days have . and although , you say , it seems very clear to you , that men derive their ideas of duration from their reflection on the train of the ideas they observe to succeed one another , yet i think the contrary so clear , that men may have a clear idea of succession without it , that i rather wonder how you came to think of this way . but it is sufficient to my purpose , that you could never know this idea of time by self-evidence . the last i shall mention is light , and one would think , if any idea be self-evident , it should be that . but let us see what you say about it ; you explode the peripatetick definition of it as unintelligible ; and the cartesian you allow to be but little better . for when they make it to be a number of little globules striking briskly on the bottom of the eye , you say , to a man that understands it not before , these words would make the idea of light no more known to him , than if one should tell him , that light was nothing but a company of little tennis-balls , which fairies all day long strook with rackets against some men's foreheads while they pass by others . and is this a self-evident idea of light ? thus we have seen what account your self have given of these self-evident ideas , which are the ground work of demonstration . . but suppose an idea happen to be thought by some to be clear and distinct , and others should think the contrary to be so , what hopes of demonstration by clear and distinct ideas then ? as suppose a man entertain des cartes his idea of space , as the same with body , or extended matter , which he affirms to be clear and distinct ; the consequence from hence is , as your self confess , that he may from thence demonstrate that there can be no vacuum : but again , let us suppose another to have a clear and distinct idea of space from body , this man , you say , may demonstrate as easily that there may be a vacuum , or space without a body , as des cartes demonstrated the contrary . say you so ? what! demonstrations on both sides , and in the way of ideas too ? this is extraordinary indeed . but if we may be allow'd the use of common principles , we may be sure , that both parts of a contradiction cannot be true , and therefore there must be a fundamental mistake some where . you say , it is in wrong application of that general maxim , what is , is . but there is no fault in the principle , which is the true meaning of the other ; that it is impossible for the same thing to be and not to be , which undoubtedly holds true ; but it is in supposing the reality of the thing to be according to what you call a clear and distinct idea . so that the general principles of reason stand firm and good ; but your self-evidence of clear and distinct ideas is such a principle , we see , as serves for demonstrations of both parts of a contradiction . . but granting the ideas to be true , yet when their connexion is not self-evident , then an intermediate idea must complete the demonstration . but how doth it appear that this middle idea is self-evidently connected with them ? for you say , if that intermediate idea be not known by intuition , that must need a proof ; and so there can be no demonstration . which i am very apt to believe in this way of ideas ; unless these ideas get more light by being put between two others . this will best appear by a remarkable instance already mention'd , viz. in the ideas of space and body ; the question supposed is , whether they be the same or not ; some we see affirm it , and others deny it . so that here we must use an intermediate idea , and that is of motion , and we are to consider whether this hath a self-evident connexion , with the other ideas ? the motion of bodies , you say , that are in our view and neighbourhood , seems to you plainly to evince a vacuum . but how ? is it by intuition or self-evidence ? no , you do not pretend to it . but by reason : because there must be a void space equal to the bulk of that body , which moves within the bounds of such a superficies . and if there be a space without body there must be a vacuum . but gassendus attempted to prove motion impossible , if there were no vacuum : for every body must go into the place of another , and so in insinitum ; which he said was ridiculous and impossible . the cartesians answer'd , that the motion was circular . gassendus urged , that still it was impossible : for suppose a the first body , and x the last ; a cannot move , unless x can be moved : but x cannot move , because the place is filled with a. the cartesians say , this proves nothing , because in the same instant , that x goes into the places of a , that gives way . ioh. bapt. morinus ( professor of the mathematicks at paris , at the same time with gassendus ) answers to gassendus his argument , that the separation of two bodies and succession are at the same time ; and so there can be no vacuum . bernier defends gassendus his argument , and saith , that no motion can begin without a vacuum ; but other philosophers and mathematicians as stifly deny it . and is it possible to imagine , that there should be a self-evident connexion of ideas in this case ? but what hath reason now to do in this way of intuition ? yes , say you , reason is to discover the agreement or disagreement of ideas . but this is nothing but an imploying the faculty of reason in such a manner : and so in the beginning of your chapter of reason , you tell us , that it is sometimes taken for true and clear principles , and sometimes for clear and fair deductions from those principles ; but you take it for a saculty in man. but why , in a chapter of reason , are the other two senses neglected ? we might have expected here full satisfaction as to the principles of reason as distinct from the faculty , but you wholly avoid it ; and only shew how it is used in finding out the certain connexion of ideas in demonstration ; and the probable connexion in other things . so that the difference lies between us , as to this matter of reason , in these two things . ( . ) you affirm , that general principles and maxims of reason are of little , or no vse ; i say that they are of very great use , and the only proper foundations of certainty . ( . ) you say , that demonstration is by way of intuition of ideas , and that reason is only the faculty imploy'd in discovering and comparing ideas with themselves , or with others intervening ; and that this is the only way of certainty . i affirm , and have proved , that there can be no demonstration by intuition of ideas ; but that all the certainty we can attain to , is from general principles of reason , and necessary deductions made from them . but before i conclude this discourse , i must observe that you prove that demonstration must be by intuition , in an extraordinary manner , from the sense of the word . for you say , it is called demonstration , it being shewn to the vnderstanding , and the mind made see , that it is so . i have told you formerly , how very uncertain a way of arguing it is , which is taken from the original signification of words ; and if it would hold in this case , it would be most proper for ocular demonstrations , or by the finger . but in the philosophical sense of the word , demonstration was never taken for intuition , or the knowing of a thing by its self-evidence . but you assert the necessity of intuitive knowledge , in every step of a demonstration . whereas , aristotle saith , things that are self-evident cannot be demonstrated ; and that it is weakness and folly not to know what things are capable of demonstration , and what not . it seems there were some philosophers , who would have first principles demonstrated ; this , saith aristotle cannot be done without running in infinitum , which is absurd . whence it is plain , that demonstration was supposed to lie in some antecedent proof ; and where any thing was self-evident it was absurd to look for it : so that the way of intuition and demonstration , were thought inconsistent . for what a man sees by its own light , he needs no proof of . but you say , that in a demonstration the intervenient ideas are called proofs ; and where by the help of these the agreement or disagreement is plainly perceived , that is demonstration : and that in every step there is an intuitive knowledge of the agreement or disagreement it seeks with the next intermediate idea , which it uses as a proof ; for , if it were not so , that would need a proof . so that according to your method of demonstration , that which is used as a proof must need no proof , but must be known by immediate intuition . of which kind of demonstration , i would fain see any one instance in the knowledge of things , and not in abstracted and mathematical demonstrations . for it may be , it hath been the occasion of some great mistakes in the philosophy of this age , that ingenious and mathematical men have labour'd so much to accommodate the principles of that science to the nature of material things ; of which we have a remarkable instance in the system of des cartes . and supposing we could come to a certainty about the nature and tendency of bodies here within our reach , ( i mean with respect to the earth ) i do not know , how far the greatest mathematician can proceed in making demonstrations as to the nature and tendency of those bodies which are so much out of our reach , as the heavenly bodies are , both in themselves and with respect to one another . for , if the phaenomena depend upon a force given them by the great and wise creator , how can we know in what manner or degree that force is given to bodies at such a wonderfull distance from us , as the fixed stars are ? for , if god can alter the laws of motion in another system , as it is not denied ; how can we be mathematically certain , that the laws of motion in bodies , so much above us , are the very same that we find them here ? i do not by any means take off from the laudable endeavours of those who have gone about to reduce natural speculations to mathematical certainty : but i mention it to shew , that it is a very easie way for thinking men to deceive themselves , in talking so much of demonstrative certainty about natural things , when all their instances are brought from mathematical demonstrations . aristotle , whom i cannot despise so much as some do ( i do not say for want of reading him ) hath a discourse on purpose in the beginning of his books of animals , in what way natural things are to be handled ; and he saith , there are two ways . . by way of science . . by way of instruction , which must be suitable to the nature of the things . so that in natural history he saith , there must be certain bounds set for enquiry , without proceeding to strict demonstration . and , saith he , the manner of demonstration as to natural things , is different from what it is in speculative or mathematical things . in another place he laments the want of experiments as to natural history , ( although he made far more than any before him , and was better able to do it by the plentifull assistance of philip and alexander , while he lived at court ) and he looks on that as the best way of satisfying our reason about such things ; and our reasons , saith he , are then good , when they agree with the phaenomena . and he was so far from thinking he had made demonstrations in physicks , that in one place he saith , that in things not evident to sense , he thought it sufficient to shew the possibility of it ; and therefore he ought not to be run down for his modesty ; however his physical notions fall far short of demonstrations . in his morals , he saith , all principles must be suitable to the nature of the science ; for it would be absurd for a man to go about to prove the three angles of a triangle , equal to two right angles ; and take this for his principle , that the soul is immortal . for the proof must be proper and connected with it . and from hence he excludes plato's idea , from being a principle in morals . in his eudemia , the way of proceeding in morals , he saith , is by reasons , testimonies , and examples ; and he looks on it as great want of iudgment for men not to consider what reasons are proper for every science . so that according to him , morality is not uncapable of demonstration ; so it be upon moral principles : for that he lays down in the beginning of his ethicks , and afterwards that the same exactness is not to be required in all sorts of reasoning : but that it ought to be suitable to the matter it is about . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . if therefore the principles in morality be clear and proper , and the deductions be plain and natural , i do not see , but that it is as capable of demonstration as any other science ; if men were as willing to be convinced in morals , as they are in mathematicks . and therein i fully agree with you : but the way of demonstration by ideas will not do , either there or any where else . i mean by this intuitive knowledge in every step of the demonstration : when the intervening ideas are far from being capable of this intuitive certainty . and as to your argument from the notation of the word , it is certain , that after the philosophical use of it , it signified no more among some philosophers , than the conclusion of an argument ; whereby we are brought from something we did perceive , to somethiug we did not . not by way of intuition , but by a deduction of reason . and plato makes use of the word demonstration in his phoedrus , for such a reason which wise men would believe , and others would not . but there could be no intuitive certainty in such a demonstration . i have been longer a clearing this matter than i thought i should have been ; but it is the main point as to certainty by ideas , and what remains will admit of an easier dispatch . i now return to the difference between nature and person ; and i shall only single out what is material and pertinent ; and now leave the interlocutory gentlemen to maintain their conversation by themselves . i had said in my vindication , that nature may be consider'd two ways . ( . ) as it is in distinct individuals . ( . ) abstractly without respect to individual persons . ( . ) as it is in distinct individuals , as the nature of a man is equally in peter , iames and iohn , and this is the common nature with a particular subsistence belonging to each of them . for the nature of man , as in peter , is distinct from the same nature , as it is in iames and iohn ; otherwise they would be but one person , as well as have the same nature . which to my understanding is plain and clear reason . and if so , then here we have an identity of nature , and a distinction of persons in the same nature . but to this you object these three things : ( . ) that you cannot put together one and the same , and distinct ; and consequently there is no foundation for the distinction of nature and person . ( . ) that what i say about common nature , and particular subsistence and individuals , is wholly unintelligible to you and your friends . ( . ) that to speak truly and precisely of this matter , as in reality it is , there is no such thing as one common nature in several individuals ; for all that is truth in them is particular , and can be nothing but particular . but the meaning is , that every particular individual man or horse , &c. has such a nature or constitution as agrees , and is conformable to that idea which that general name stands for . this is the substance of what i can gather out of your discourse in several pages , but as to the general reflections i pass them over , having no other design , but to set truth in as good a light as i can . and if i have the misfortune not to be understood , i cannot help it ; i wish it were in my power to help other men's capacities as well as to help my own . but you say , the notionists and ideists , ( as they are called ) seem to have their apprehensive faculties very differently turned ? i do not think , that there is any different turn in their faculties ; but there may be a very wrong turn in the method of reasoning in those , who go in this way of ideas , from what there is in those who pursue the general principles of reason , and from thence draw particular conclusions . if any man takes it for granted , that your way of ideas is the only way to certainty ( and he must take it for granted , if he will believe it ) then i cannot see how he can apprehend one and the same common nature in different persons or individuals , because all his ideas are taken from particulars ; and therefore a common nature is no more but one common name ; and every individual is consider'd as ranked under those names . but herein lies the fundamental mistake , that you presume that we are not to judge of things by the general principles of reason , but by particular ideas . for if men set aside this new way of judging only by these ideas ; things would appear in another light to them : but i find it is to very little purpose to argue with such men , who are resolved to stick to this way of ideas ; for they can apprehend nothing but just in their own way . and let us say what we will , it is jargon , and unintelligible to them ; although very rational men have said the same things that we do , and have been thought by the rest of mankind to have spoken intelligibly . but now it seems nothing is intelligible , but what suits with this new way of ideas , however repugnant it be to the common principles of reason ; which must be the standard to mankind , whatever becomes of this way of ideas . and therefore in this debate , i shall proceed upon these principles of reason , which have been receiv'd among mankind ; and from them i hope to make it appear , that the difference of nature and person is not imaginary and fictitious , but grounded upon the real nature of things . the principles of reason , which i go upon are these ; . that nothing hath no properties . . that all properties being only modes or accidents must have a real subject to subsist in . . that properties essentially different , must subsist in different essences . . that where there is an agreement in essential properties and a difference in individual , there must be both an identity and diversity in several respects . now upon these principles i build my assertion , that there is one real and common nature or essence in mankind , and a difference of persons in the several individuals . for , that there are such essential properties in mankind which are not in brutes , i suppose you will not deny . now these essential properties must subsist somewhere ; for nothing can have no properties , and these properties cannot subsist ( where individuals are multiplied ) in any one individual : for that is to exclude all the rest from the essential properties which belong to them ; and if they have them in common , there must be some common subject wherein they subsist , and that can be nothing but the common essence of mankind . for the essence of brutes or plants have them not ; and therefore these essences must be really different from one another . but because individuals of the same kind , have something to distinguish , as well as to unite them , therefore there must be a different subsistence in every individual : and so one and the same , and yet distinct , may very easily and intelligibly consist together . but you say , i have not told you what nature is ; i think my discourse sufficiently shew'd it , if you had a mind to understand it ; for you could not but see that i meant the subject of the essential properties , whether you call it nature , substance , or essence . your objection about nature and substance being of equal extent , i hope , i have sufficiently removed in the foregoing discourse . you tell me , that it is more than you know , that the nature of a man is equal in peter , james and john. i am sorry for it . for i thought you had ideas of particular substances . but they may be drills or horses for any thing you know . i am again sorry , that you know particular men no better ; but that for ought you know , they may be drills or horses . but you know a horse that was called peter , and you do not know but the master of the same team might call other of his horses , james and john. suppose all this . and could you not in the way of ideas distinguish them from those of your acquaintance who had the same names ? i confess , this tempts me to think that ideists ( as you call them ) have a particular turn of their understandings about these matters . for i cannot but think , that those who were not very rational men , might understand the difference between men and horses ; without being told , that although horses might be called by their names ; yet that these were real men , and their constitution and nature was conformable to that idea , which the general name man stands for . but this is no more than to say , that he that has the nature of a man is a man , or what has the nature of a drill is a drill ; and what has the nature of a horse is a horse ; whether it be called peter , or not called peter . if this were really the discourse of your friends in private conversation , you have been very obliging to them to publish it to the world : for mankind are not so stupid , as not to know a man from a horse or a drill , but only by the specifick name of man. you may have a horse called peter if you please , and another iames , and a third iohn ; but for all that , there is no one that hath the understanding of a man , but will be able without your specifick names to tell the difference of your horse peter from your man peter ; and call them by what names you please the difference will not depend upon them , but upon the essential properties which belong to them ; and so it will be owned by all that have not this new turn of their vnderstandings . but i plainly see , that a new notion when it hath got deep into a man's head doth give a strange turn to his understanding ; so that he cannot see that , which every one else can , that hath not the same tincture upon his mind . and i remember an observation of yours , how dangerous it is to a man's reason to fix his fancy long upon one sort of thoughts . these ideas are a very odd sort of spectacles to our understandings , if they make them see and understand less , than people of very , ordinary capacities do . for even the man who had the horse with the name peter , and might have others by the names of james and john , would not a little wonder at a grave philosopher that should seriously say to him ; you see , friend , that your horses have the names of men , how do you know but that they are men ? know , saith the country-man , i hope you are wiser than to ask me such a question ? or what do you take me for , if i cannot tell the difference of men from horses whatever names they have . do not tell me of your specifick names , and conformity to your ideas , i know well enough the difference between my horse peter and my man peter without such gibberish . my man peter and i can sit and chop logick together , about our country affairs , and he can write and read , and he is a very sharp fellow at a bargain ; but my horse peter can do none of these things , and i never could find any thing like reason in him , and do you think i do not know the difference between a man and a beast ? i pursue this no farther lest the country-man should be too rude to the gentlemen , with whom you had this learned conversation , about the difference of men , and horses , and drills . but you or your friend , or both , are very hard set again about a common nature with a particular subsistence proper to each person . for such is your misfortune , you say , that for your life you cannot find it out . this is a hard case ; before , for your life you could not understand nature and substance to be the same ; and now again , for your life you cannot find out this . where lies the monstrous difficulty of it ? you say , you repeated , and this twenty times to your self ; and your weak vnderstanding always rejolts . at what ? my words are , nature may be considered , as it is in distinct individuals , as the nature of man is equally in peter , iames and iohn . and this is the common nature with a particular subsistence proper to each of them . you say , that the nature of man in peter is the nature of a man , if peter be supposed to be a man , but if it be the name of a horse , your knowledge vanishes . cannot you , for your life , know the difference between a man and a horse , by their essential properties , whatever their names be ? if so , there is a greater turn of mens vnderstandings , than i imagined . but again say you , let it be impossible to give that name to a horse ( who ever said or thought so ? ) yet you cannot understand these words , the common nature of a man is in peter ; for whatsoever is in peter exists in peter ; and whatever exists in peter is particular ; but the common nature of man is the general nature of man , or else you understand not what is meant by common nature ; and it confounds your vnderstanding to make a general a particular . to this i answer , that the common nature of man may be taken two ways . in the way of ideas , and in the way of reason . in your way of ideas it is not at all to be wondered at , that you cannot understand such a common nature , as i spake of , which subsists in several persons , because you say , you can have no ideas of real substances but such as are particular ; all others are only abstract ideas , and made only by the act of the mind . but i say , that in the way of reason you may come to a better understanding of this matter . which is by considering the nature of beings , and the causes of the differences amongst the several kinds of them . i had told you before , in my answer to your first letter , that we are to consider beings as god hath ordered them in their several sorts and ranks , and that he hath distinguished them by essential properties from each other , as appears by mankind , and brutes , and plants : and that although the individuals of the several kinds agree in essential properties , yet there is a real difference between them in several accidents that belong to them , as to time , place , qualities , relations , &c. now that wherein they agree is the common nature ; and that wherein they differ , is the particular subsistence . and if this be so hard to be understood , why was it not answered here in the proper place for it ? is not that a real nature that is the subject of real properties ? is not that nature really in all those who have the same essential properties ? and therefore the common nature of man must exist in peter , because he is a man , and so in iames and iohn : and yet every one of these is so distinguished from the other , that we may justly say he hath a particular subsistence with that common nature . and this is no making a general a particular ; but distinguishing one from the other , which is a distinction so easie and necessary , that i cannot but wonder at those who say , that for their lives they cannot find it out . i had said , for the nature of man as in peter , is distinct from that same nature , as it is in iames and iohn , otherwise they would be but one person as well as one nature . and what reply is made to this ? you cannot understand what this is a proof of . it is plain that i meant it of a particular subsistence ; and if you cannot for your life understand such easie things , how can i for my life help it ? read the words over again which are before them , and join them together . and this is the common nature with a particular subsistence proper to each of them ; for the nature of man as in peter is distinct from that same nature as it is in iames and iohn . but i am really ashamed to be put to explain such things ; i hope ideas do not give another turn to common sense . but you say , that otherwise they could not be three persons , is to prove it by a proposition unintelligible to you , because you do not yet apprehend what a person is . of that in its proper place . these words of mine follow , and this distinction of persons in them , is discerned both by our senses as to their different accidents , and by our reason because they have a separate existence , not coming into it at once and in the same manner . and is this unintelligible too ? you say , it will hold as well for three physical atoms , which are three distinct individuals , and have three distinct natures in them , as certainly as three distinct men. but are three atoms as much three persons as three men ? but you cannot discern the distinction by our senses as to their accidents , nor by your reason as to separate existence , because god might create them at once . therefore we cannot distinguish three humane persons that way ? in this reasoning in the way of ideas ? or in any way ? suppose we put the common nature of an animal for the common nature of man. what follows ? therefore three animals are three distinct persons , as well as three men ? i thought there was some cause for your disliking the common principles and methods of reasoning . i am forced to give but short touches at such things , which i cannot answer more largely , without being thought to make marks of distinction . come we now therefore to the second sense of nature , as it is taken abstractly without respect to individual persons ; and then i said , it makes an entire notion of it self . for however the same nature may be in different individuals , yet the nature in it self remains one and the same ; which appears from this evident reason , that otherwise every individual must make a different kind . is this to be understood any better ? no. an entire notion of it self is an expression never met with before . an entire idea of it self had been very plain and easie ; but this is not to talk with men in their own dialect . but if we put it so , the difficulty remains . what difficulty ? it then makes no more an entire notion than the nature of peter . is it not the same nature considered as common to all individuals , distinct from that nature as in peter ? i wish among all the ways of inlarging knowledge , you could think of some new way of conveying notions into mens minds , for i find your way of ideas will never do it . for you cannot be brought one step beyond the first cast of ideas . and you will not allow , that which i give for an evident reason , to prove any thing towards clear apprehensions of one common nature . but if nature be one and the same in different individuals , then there must be one common nature , which makes an entire notion of it self : if it be not one and the same , then every individual must make a distinct kind ? can any thing be more evident ? but you give one common answer ; i understand not any thing that is meant in this whole paragraph , as to the right apprehension of one common nature . and so i am very well content to leave it to the reader 's understanding . and now i come at last to the idea of a person . and here i am glad to find something you do understand : which is great news . this , say you , i understand very well , that supposing peter , james and john to be all three men , and man being a name for one kind of animals , they are all of the same kind . do you mean that they have the same common essence , or have only the same common name ? if you mean the former , there must be a common nature ; if only the latter , that cannot make them of the same kind . for kind signifies nothing but a meer name without it . if it be asked you , whether men and drills be of the same kind or not ? could you give no other answer , but that the specifick name man stands for one sort , and the specifick name drill for the other ; and therefore they are not of the same kind ? are those names arbitrary , or are they founded on real and distinct properties ? if they be arbitrary , they have no other difference , but what a dictionary gives them . if they are founded on real and distinct properties , then there must be a real difference of kinds founded in nature ; which is as much as i desire . but to go on . you understand too very well , that peter is not james , and james is not john , but that there is a difference in these individuals . you understand also , that they may be distinguished from each other by our senses , as to different features and distance of place , &c. but what follows , you say , you do not understand , viz. that supposing there were no such external difference , yet there is a difference between them as individuals of the same nature . for all that this comes to , as far as you can understand , is that the ground of the distinction between several individuals in the same common nature is that they are several individuals in the same common nature . you understand , it seems , that they are several individuals , that peter is not james , and james is not john ; and the question is , what this distinction is founded upon ? whether upon our observing the difference of features , distance of place , &c. or on some antecedent ground ? i affirm , that there is a ground of the distinction of individuals antecedent to such accidental differences as are liable to our observation by our senses . and the ground i go upon is this , that the true reason of identity in man is the vital union of soul and body : and since every man hath a different soul united to different particles of matter , there must be a real distinction between them , without any respect to what is accidental to them . for , if peter have a soul and body different from iames , and iames from iohn , they must have different principles of individuation , without any respect to features or place , &c. you say , you cannot suppose a contradiction , viz. that there is no difference of place between them . but that is not the point , whether when we consider them with respect to place , there can be such a thing as identity of place to two different bodies ? but whether we cannot consider two several individuals of mankind without particular regard to place ? which i say , we may , and for this reason ; because relation to place , is an external difference , but the real distinction of individuals doth not relate to any accident of the body ; because the individual consists of the union of soul and body ; and you cannot judge of the existence of the soul by the place of the body . you say , that when we see any thing to be in any place in any instant of time , we are sure ( be it what it will ) that it is that very thing , and not another which at that time exists in another place , how like and undistinguishing soever it may be in all other respects . and in this consists identity . but i think the identity of man depends neither upon the notion of place for his body ; nor upon the soul consider'd by it self , but upon both these , as actually united and making one person . which to me seems so clear and intelligible , that i can imagine no objection against it . i am certain , you produce none . my next words are , and here lies the true idea of a person , which arises from that manner of subsistence , which is in one individual , and is not communicable to another . in your answer to this , i pass over the trifling exceptions , about the dissyllable person , and the true idea and signification of the articulate sound ; and about here and herein , &c. being resolved to keep to what appears material . and the only thing of that kind is , that according to my sense of person , it will as well agree to bucephalus as to alexander ; and the difference will be as great , between bucephalus and podargus , as between alexander and hector , all being several individuals in the same common nature : but for your part you cannot understand that bucephalus and podargus are persons in the true signification of the word person in the english tongue . and whoever desired you should ? for i expresly say , that a person is a compleat intelligent substance , with a peculiar manner of subsistence . and again , for a person relates to something which doth distinguish it from another intelligent substance in the same nature . so that it is impossible to apply my notion of person to any irrational creatures , although they be bucephalus and podargus : and i think a man must strain hard to make such objections , so directly against that idea of a person which i set down . and it is very easie to understand the difference between a distinction of individuals as such , and of intelligent individuals , and that manner of subsistence in them , which makes them distinct persons . but you say , that i affirm , that an individual intelligent substance is rather supposed to the making of a person , than the proper definition of it ; and yet afterwards i make it to be the definition of a person , that it is a compleat intelligent substance . to this i answer , that in the former place i give an account of the reason of personality , which i say lies in the manner of subsistence , and not in the intelligent individual substance ; which is rather supposed to the making of a person : for that which critically distinguishes the person is the reason of personality ; but when we come to give a common definition of it , there is no such necessity of insisting upon the reason of the difference , but upon the common acception of it person . and upon that account i call it a complete intelligent substance , because , although the soul be so in it self ; yet we take person with relation to soul and body united together . and so the identity of person must take in both , not only here , but at the resurrection . and thus i have gone through all that i could find , that seem'd material in the dialogue between you and your friends as to this subject , and i assure you , i have omitted nothing which i apprehended had any appearance of difficulty in it . and i find not the least reason to be unsatisfied in the account i had given of the difference of nature and person : but i still think that it doth tend very much to the right apprehension of the doctrine of the trinity ; as i hope doth farther appear by the foregoing discourse . and now to come to a conclusion of this whole debate . ( for i intend not to draw this saw any longer : having done as much as i think sitting for my self to do . ) i saw no necessity of writing again for my own vindication as to your first charge , which i was contended to leave to the reader 's judgment . but in the conclusion of my former answer , i had said , that as you had stated your notion of ideas , it may be of dangerous consequence to that article of the christian faith , which i endeavour'd to defend . this you call a new charge against your book ; and you complain , that i do not specifie the particulars , wherein i apprehend it may be of such dangerous consequence ; and you blame me for this saying , without shewing that it is so : and that all the reason i give is , that it is made use of by ill men to do mischief : that when i say , it may be , it shews only an inclination to accuse , and proves nothing : that danger may be apprehended where no danger is ; that if any thing must be laid aside , because it may be ill used , you do not know what will be innocent enough to be kept : and lastly , that the imputation of a tendency to scepticism , and to the overthrowing any article of the christian faith are no small charge ; and that you cannot see any argument i have brought , that your notion of ideas tends to scepticism . these things laid together , made me think it necessary to do that which i was unwilling 〈◊〉 do , till you had driven me to it ; which was to shew , the reasons i had , why i look'd on your notion of ideas , and of certainty by them , as inconsistent with it self , and with some important articles of the christian faith. what i have now done , i thought it my duty to do , not with respect to my self , but to some of the mysteries of our faith ; which i do not charge you with opposing , but with laying such foundations as do tend to the overthrow of them ; of which we have had too much experience already ; and may have more , if your way of certainty by ideas should obtain . which i cannot think it will among such as are capable , and willing , to judge impartially . i have now done with this matter : and as some may think it the first part of wisdom not to begin in such disputes ( and i am of their mind if they did not touch the christian faith ) so they cannot but judge it the next ( as i do ) to know when to make an end. i am , sir , your faithfull friend , and servant , ed. wigorn. sept. . . finis . errata . page . line . after thing , insert common . p. margin , r. p. . p. . l. . r. plotinus . p. . l. . r. this . p. . l. . blot out it . books written by the right reverend father in god , edw. l. bishop of worcester , and sold by h. mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yuard . a rational account of the grounds of the protestant religion ; being a vindication of the lord archbishop of canterbury's relation of a conference , &c. from the pretended answer of t. c. d . edit . fol. origines britannicae , or the antiquities of the british churches , with a preface concerning some pretended antiquities relating to britain , in vindication of the bishop of st. asaph . folio . irenicum , a weapon-slave for the churches wounds . quarto . origines sacrae , or a rational account of the grounds of christian faith , as to the truth and divine authority of the script ▪ and the matters therein contained . to . a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it . octavo . an answer to several late treatises occasioned by a book entituled , a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it ; part i. octavo . a second discourse in vindication of the protestant grounds of faith , against the pretence of infallibility in the roman church , in answer to the guide in controversie , by r h protestancy without principles , and reason and religion ; or the certain rule of faith , by e w. with a particular enquiry into the miracles of the roman church octavo . an answer to mr. cressy's epistle apologetical to a person of honour , touching his vindication of dr ▪ stillingfleet . octavo . a defence of the discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , in answer to a book entituled , catholicks no idolaters : octavo . several conferences between a roman priest ▪ a fanatick chaplain , and a divine of the church of england ; being a full answer to the late dialogues of t g octavo . a discourse concerning bonds of resignation of benefices in point of law and conscience , in octavo . a discourse concerning the illegality of the ecclesiastical commission , in answer to the vindication and defence of it : wherein the true notion of the legal supremacy is cleared ; and an account is given of the nature , original and mischief of the dispensing power . the unreasonableness of separation , or an impartial account of the history , nature and pleas of the present separation from the communion of the ch. of england . quarto the grand question concerning the bishops right to vote in parliament in cases capital stated and argued , from the parliament-rolls and the history of former times ; with an enquiry into their peerage , and the three estates in parliament . octavo . a discourse concerning the doctrine of christ's satisfaction ; or the true reasons of his sufferings ; with an answer to the socinian objections . to which is added , a sermon concerning the mysteries of the christian faith , preached april . . with a preface concerning the true state of the controversie about christ's satisfaction . the second edition . vo . twelve sermons preached upon several occasions vol. i. octavo . ten sermons preached upon several occasions . vol ii. octavo . a third volume will be shortly published . a discourse in vindication of the doctrine of the trinity : with an answer to the late socinian objections against it , from scripture , antiquity and reason and a preface concerning the different explications of the trinity , and the tendency of the present socinian controversie . the second edition , octavo . the bishop of worcester's answer to mr. lock 's letter concerning some passages relating to his essay of humane understanding , mentioned in the late discourse in vindication of the trinity . with a postscript in answer to some reflections made on that treatise in a late socinian pamphlet . the bishop of worcester's charge to the clergy of his diocess in his primary visitation begun at worcester , september . . to . the effigies of the right reverend father in god , edward lord bishop of worcester , engraven on a copper-plate by robert white . price d. the rule of faith : or an answer to the treatise of mr. i. s. entituled , sure-footing , &c. by iohn tillotson , d. d. to which is adjoyned , a reply to mr. i. s's third appendix , &c. by edward stillingfleet d. d. a letter to mr. g. giving a true account of a late conference at the d. of p's . a second letter to mr. g. in answer to two letters lately published concerning the conference at the d. of p s. veteres vindicati : in an expostulary letter to mr. sclater of putney , upon his consensus veterum , &c. wherein the absurdity of his method , and the weakness of his reasons are shewn ; his false aspersions upon the church of england are wiped off , and her faith concerning the eucharist proved to be that of the primitive church : together with animadversions on dean boileu's french translation of , and remarks upon bertram . an answer to the compiler of nubes testium : wherein is shewn , that antiquity ( in relation to the points in controversie set down by him ) did not for the first five hundred years believe , teach and practice as the church of rome doth at present believe , teach and practice ; together with a vindication of veteres vindicati from the late weak and disingenuous attempts of the author of transubstantiation defended , by the author of the answer to mr. sclater of putney . a letter to father lewis sabran jesuit , in answer to his letter to a peer of the church of england ; wherein the postscript to the answer to the nubes testium is vindicated , and father sabran's mistakes farther discoverd . a second letter to father lewis sabran jesuit , in answer to his reply . a vindication of the principles of the author of the answer to the compiler of nubes testium in answer to a late pretended letter from a dissenter to the divines of the church of england . a discourse concerning the nature and grounds of the certainty of faith , in answer to i. s. his catholick letters . the council of trent examin'd and disprov'd by catholick tradition , in the main points in controversie between us and the church of rome ▪ with a particular account of the times and occasions of introducing them . part. i. to which a preface is prefixed concerning the true sense of the council of trent , and the notion of transubstantiation . an historical examination of the authority of general councils , shewing the false dealing that hath been used in the publishing of them ; and the difference amongst the papists themselves about their number . the second edition corrected . to . the folly and unreasonableness of atheism demonstrated from the advantage and pleasure of a religious life : the faculties of human souls : the structure of animate bodies , and the origine and frame of the world ; in eight sermons : preached at the lecture , founded by the honourable robert boyle , esq in the first year , . by richard bentley , d. d. chaplain in ordinary , and library-keeper to his majesty . of revelation , and the messias : a sermon preached at the publick commencement at cambridge , july the th . . by richard bentley , d. d. chaplain in ordinary , and library-keeper to his majesty . the restoring of fallen brethren ; containing the substance of two sermons on gal vi. , preached at the performance of publick penance , by certain criminals , on the lord's day , usually called mid-lent-sunday , . in the parish church of old-swinford in worcester-shire : by simon ford , d. d and rector there ; with a preface , by the right reverend father in god , edward lord bishop of worcester . the new-years-gift complete , in six parts , composed of prayers and meditations for every day in the week , with devotions for the sacrament , lent , and other occasions . the first part may be had by it self books written by the late reverend anthony horneck , d. d. preacher at the savoy . the great law of consideration ; or a discourse , wherein the nature , usefulness , and absolute necessity of consideration , in order to a truly serious , and religious life , is laid open , in vo . the happy ascetick ; or the best exercise ; together with prayers suitable to each exercise : to which is added , a letter to a person of quality , concerning the holy lives of the primitive christians , in vo . delight and judgment represented , in a discourse , concerning the great day of judgment ; and its power to damp and embitter sensual delights , sports , and recreations , in vo . the exercise of prayer ; or , a help to devotion : containing prayers and devotions for several occasions . the antiquities of nottingham-shire , extracted out of records , original evidences , leiger-books , and other manuscripts , and authentick authorities ; beautified with maps , prospects , and portraictures : by robert thoroton dr. of physick , folio . some school-books sold by henry mortlok , at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . horatius , interpretatione & notis illustravit ludovicus des-prez , in usum delphini . huic editioni accessere vita horatii cum dacerii chronologia horatiana , & praefatio de satyra romana , vo . l. annaeus florus , in usum delphini , vo . leusdeni compendium graecum novi testamenti , in vo . quinta editio . janua linguarum trilinguis , sive johannis amos comenii janua linguarum , vo . graecae grammatices rudimenta in usum scholae westmonasteriensis busby's apolodorus , in usum scholae westmonast . nomenclatura brevis reformata , in usum scholae westmonasteriensis . an english introduction to the latin tongue , for the use of the lower forms in westminster school . graeca epigrammata , in usum scholae west . martialis epigram . in usum scholae west . juneval in usum scholae westmonasteriensis . a general examination of the common greek grammar , according to dr. busby's method , chiefly intended for grounding young beginners in the greek tongue , in the free-school in newark upon trent . a short exposition of the catechism of the church of england , with the church catechism it self , and order of confirmation in english and latin , the latin revised and much amended , by edw. boughen , d.d. fitted for the use of schools . an explanation of the additional rules for the genders of nouns in the oxford grammar , by way of question and answer : by iohn twells master of the free-school in newark , very proper to be bound up with the oxford grammar . with variety of other school-books . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e d . letter ▪ p. . answ. to first letter , p. . d. letter , p. . p. . p. . first letter , p. . p. . letter ii. ● . ● , , . , , , , , , , , , , , , , . essay , b. . ch . . sect. . first letter , p. . b. . ch . . sect. . letter p. . b. . ch . . sect. . princip . l. . n. , &c. b. . ch . . sect. . b. . ch . . sect. . b. . ch . . sect. . b. . ch . . sect. . answ. to let . p. . let. . p. . answer to letter . p. . letter . p. . p. ● ▪ p. . p. , . p. ● . answer to letter . p. . letter . p. . letter p. . answer to letter . p . postscript p. . p. . p. . p. . lett. ii. p. . . essay , b. . ch . . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . letter . p. . n. . essay , e. . ch . . sect. . sect. . john . , . cor. . . cor. . . . . . john . . cor. . , . . , , . sect. . sect. . . . . , ● . essay b. . c. . sect. . vindication of the trinity , p. . &c. p. . letter . p. . p. answer to letter ▪ p. . letter . p. . p. . answer to letter . p. . p. . letter . p. . letter . p. . essay b. . c. . sect. . letter . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . letter . p. . essay l. . ch . . sect. . letter . p. . essay , l. . ch . . sect. . essay , b. . ch . . sect. . evangel . medici art. . p. . ch. . sect. . sect. . censur . philos. cartes . c. . sect. . n. . philosophia scripturae interpres , c. . n. . c. . p. . p. . p. . p. , . from p. . to p. . p. . p. . p. , . essay , b. . ch . . sect. . sect. . sect. . princip . p. . n. . essay , l. . ch . . sect. . b. . ch . . sect. . sect. , sect. ▪ sect. . sect. . sect. . des cartes epist. ● . ep. , . p. ● p. . p. . p. . p. . arist. metaph . l. . c. . p. rami schol. metaph l. . c. . physic. ausc. l. . c. . plut. de plac. phil. l. . c. . c. . letter ii. p. . fr. patrit . discuss . peripat . t. ii. l. . p. . nat quaest. l. . c. . de benef . l. . c. , . de cons. ad helv. c. . cic. de nat. l. . plato in phileb . sext. empir . l. . c. . p. . anton. l. . sect . . l. . sect. . damasc. dial. c. . chrysost. hom. . in gen. theod. in gen. qu. . basil. in hex . or. . gal. . . mr. boyle of the notion of nature , p. . p. . discourse of the trinity , p. . p. . ibid. book ch . sect. ●● . sect. . book . ch . . sect. . solid philos. asserted preface , sect. . reflex . . p. . book . ch . . sect. . book . ch . . sect. . book ▪ ch . . sect. . sect. . sect. . book . ch . . sect. . sect. ▪ aristot. metaph . l. . answer to the first lett. p. . iambl . in nicom . p. . porph vit . pythag. metaphys . l. . c. , . l. ▪ c. , . arrian . l. . c. . l. . c . simplic . in epict . c. . plut. de ei delph . simplic . in epict. c. . essay , b. . ch . . sect. . book . ch . . sect. . sext. empiric . advers . mathem . l. . essay , b. . ch . . sect. . sect. . book ii. ch . . sect. . b. iv. ch . sect. . sect. . b. iv. ch . . sect. . ch. . sect. . sect. . sect. . book . ch . . sect. . book . ch . . sect. . sect. . book . ch . . sect. . ch. . sect. . book . ch . . sect. . sect. . book . ch . . sect. . sect. . sect. . book . ch . . sect. . book . ch . . sect. . book . ch . . sect. . essay , b. . ch . . sect. . joh. bapt. morini dissert . de atomis & vacuo , p. . bernier favilla ridiculi muris , p. . sect. . ch. . sect. ●● sect. . essay , b. . ch . . sect. . sect. , . aristot. metaph . l. . c. . sect. . sect. . arist. de part. anim. l. . c. . ●● gen. a●●●● l. . c. . de meteor . l. . c. . moral . magn. l. . c. . eudem . l . c. . ethic ad nicom l. . c. , . l. . c. . itaque argumenti conclusio quae est graecè 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ità definitur ; ratio quae ex rebus perceptis ad id quod non percipiebatur adducit . cicero in lucullo , c. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , plato in phaedro . v. dialect . ciceron . adam bu●sii , l. . c. . p. . p. , . . , &c. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . b. ii. ch . sect. . p. . p. . p. . answ to lett. l. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . essay , b. . ch . . sect. . p. . p. . p. . p. . . . . . . ● . . the bishop of worcester's answer to mr. locke's letter, concerning some passages relating to his essay of humane understanding, mention'd in the late discourse in vindication of the trinity with a postscript in answer to some reflections made on that treatise in a late socinian pamphlet. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the bishop of worcester's answer to mr. locke's letter, concerning some passages relating to his essay of humane understanding, mention'd in the late discourse in vindication of the trinity with a postscript in answer to some reflections made on that treatise in a late socinian pamphlet. stillingfleet, edward, - . p. printed by j.h. for henry mortlock ..., london : . first edition. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng locke, john, - . -- essay concerning human understanding. toland, john, - . -- christianity not mysterious. trinity. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the bishop of worcester's answer to mr. locke's letter , concerning some passages relating to his essay of humane understanding , mention'd in the late discourse in vindication of the trinity . with a postscript in answer to some reflections made on that treatise in a late socinian pamphlet . london , printed by i. h. for henry mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , . the bishop of worcester's answer to mr. locke's letter , &c. sir , i have seriously consider'd the letter you were pleased to send me , and i find it made up of two parts ; a complaint of me , and a vindication of your self : to both which i shall return as clear and distinct on answer , and in as few words , as the matter will permit . . as to the complaint of me , it runs quite through the book , and even your postscript is full of it . the substance of it is , that in answering objections against the trinity , in point of reason , i produce several passages out of your essay of humane vnderstanding , as if they were intended by you to that purpose ; but you declare to the world , p. . that it was written by you without any thought of the controversie between the trinitarians and unitarians ; and p. . that your notions about ideas have no connexion with any objections that are made by others against the doctrine of the trinity , or against mysteries . and therefore you complain of it , as an injury done to you , in imputing that to you , which you have not done , p. . or at least in leaving it so doubtfull , that the reader cannot distinguish who is meant , p. . and this you call my peculiar way of writing in this part of my treatise . now to give you and others satisfaction as to this matter , i shall first give an account of the occasion of it , and then shew what care i took to prevent misunderstanding about it . the occasion was this , being to answer the objections in point of reason , ( which had not been answered before ) the first i mention'd , was , that it was above reason , and therefore not to be believed ; in answer to this , i proposed two things to be consider'd ; . what we understand by reason . . what ground in reason there is to reject any doctrine above it , when it is proposed as a matter of faith. as to the former i observ'd that the vnitarians in their late pamphlets talk'd very much of clear and distinct ideas and perceptions , and that the mysteries of faith were repugnant to them , but never went about to state the nature and bounds of reason in such a manner as those ought to have done who make it the rule and standard of what they are to believe . but i added , that a late author in a book , call'd christianity not mysterious , had taken upon him to clear this matter , whom for that cause i was bound to consider ; the design of his discourse related wholly to matters of faith , and not to philosophical speculations ; so that there can be no dispute about his application of those he calls principles of reason and certainty . when the mind makes use of intermediate ideas to discover the agreement or disagreement of the ideas received into them , this method of knowledge , he saith , is properly called reason or demonstration . the mind , as he goes on , receives ideas two ways : . by intromission of the senses . . by considering its own operations . and these simple and distinct ideas , are the sole matter and foundation of all our reasoning . and so all our certainty is resolved into two things , either immediate perception , which is self-evidence , or the use of intermediate ideas , which discovers the certainty of any thing dubious ; which is what he calls reason . now this i said did suppose , that we must have clear and distinct ideas of what-ever we pretend to any certainty of in our minds ( by reason ) and that the only way to attain this certainty is by comparing these ideas together ; which excludes all certainty of faith or reason , where we cannot have such clear and distinct ideas . from hence i proceeded to shew , that we could not have such clear and distinct ideas , as were necessary in the present debate , either by sensation or reflection , and consequently we could not attain to any certainty about it ; for which , i instanced in the nature of substance and person , and the distinction between them . and by vertue of these principles i said , that i did not wonder , that the gentlemen of this new way of reasoning had almost discarded substance out of the reasonable part of the world. which expression you tell me you do not understand . but if you had pleased to have look'd back on the words just before , a person of your sagacity could not have missed the meaning i intended . which are , now this is the case of substance ; it is not intromitted by the senses , nor depends upon the operations of the mind , and cannot be within the compass of our reason . but you say , that if i mean that you deny or doubt that there is in the world any such thing as substance , i shall acquit you of it , if i look into some passages in your book which you refer to . but this is not the point before us , whether you do own substance or not ? but whether by vertue of these principles , you can come to any certainty of reason about it ? and i say , the very places you produce do prove the contrary ; which i shall therefore set down in your own words , both as to corporeal and spiritual substances . when we talk or think of any particular sort of corporeal substance , as horse , stone , &c. tho' the idea we have of either of them be but the complication or collection of those several simple ideas of sensible qualities which we use to find united in the thing called horse or stone , yet because we cannot conceive how they should subsist alone , or one in another , we suppose them existing in and supported by some common subject , which support we denote by the name substance , tho' it be certain we have no clear or distinct idea of that thing we suppose a support . the same happens concerning operations of the mind , viz. thinking , reasoning , &c. which we considering not to subsist of themselves , nor apprehending how they can belong to body or be produced by it , we are apt to think these the actions of some other substance , which we call spirit , whereby yet it is evident , that having no other notion or idea of matter , but something wherein those many sensible qualities , which affect our senses do subsist , by supposing a substance wherein thinking , knowing , doubting , and a power of moving , &c. do subsist , we have as clear a notion of the nature or substance of spirit as we have of body , the one being supposed to be ( without knowing what it is ) the substratum to those simple ideas we have from without , and the other supposed ( with a like ignorance of what it is ) to be the substratum to those operations which we experiment in our selves . you mention other places to the same purpose , but these are sufficient for mine . these and the like fashions of speaking , you say intimate , that the substance is supposed always something , &c. i grant that you say over and over , that substance is supposed ; but that is not what i looked for , but something in the way of certainty by reason . yes , you say , we cannot conceive how these sensible qualities should subsist alone , and therefore we suppose a substance to support them . it is but supposing still , because we cannot conceive it otherwise . but what certainty follows barely from our not being able to conceive ? are there not multitudes of things which we are not able to conceive , and yet it would not be allowed us to suppose what we think fit on that account ? i could hardly conceive that mr. l. would have brought such evidence as this against himself ; but i must suppose some unknown substratum in this case . but you go on , that as long as there is any simple idea , or sensible quality left , according to my way of arguing , substance cannot be discarded , because all simple ideas , all sensible qualities carry with them a supposition of a substratum to exist in and of a substance wherein they inhere . what is the meaning of carrying with them a supposition of a substratum and a substance ? have these simple ideas the notion of a substance in them ? no , but they carry it with them . how so ? do sensible qualities carry a corporeal substance along with them ? then a corporeal substance must be intromitted by the senses together with them . no ; but they carry the supposition with them . and truly that is burden enough for them . but which way do they carry it ? it seems it's only because we cannot conceive it otherwise . what is this conceiving ? it may be said that it is an act of the mind , not built on simple ideas , but lies in comparing the ideas of accident and substance together , and from thence finding that an accident must carry substance along with it ? but this will not clear it ; for the ideas of accidents are simple ideas , and carry nothing along with them ; but the impression made by sensible objects : and the idea of substance comes in by way of supposition with the other , so that it is not the comparing two ideas together , but the supposing one idea from another , and that a very obscure and confused one too , as is confessed , viz. that it is something which supports accidents , and was found out for that substantial end. as appears from these remarkable words of yours . they who first ran into the notion of accidents , as a sort of real beings that needed something to inhere in , were forc'd to find out the word substance to support them . had the poor indian philosopher , but thought of this word substance , he needed not to have been at the trouble to find an elephant to support it , and a tortoise to support his elephant . the word substance would have done it effectually . and it might have been taken for as good an answer from an indian philosopher , that substance without knowing what it is , is that which supports the earth , as we take it for a sufficient answer , and good doctrine from our european philosophers , that substance without knowing what it is , is that which supports accidents . what can be ridiculing the notion of substance , and the european philosophers for asserting it , if this be not ? i forbear now your repetition of it ; because i see it doth not please you . but truly it was not to upbraid you with the bare repetition as a fault in writing ( many of which i am too much sensible of my self , to blame it in others ) but only to shew that it was not a sudden fancy , but a deliberate , and ( as you thought ) a lucky similitude . but you say , you would be glad to hear a clearer and more distinct idea of substance , but you can find no better in your own thoughts , or in the books of logicians . are not these logicians a sort of european philosophers , who were despised so much before , for this very notion of substance ? even burgersdicius and sanderson ( whom you quote ) were so , as well as many others of the dull tribe of logicians . but i do not find fault with the definition of substance brought by logicians ; for they do not say , that it was found out only to support accidents , but they say , it first implies a subsistence by it self ; and then that it supports accidents : but you say , the former implies no more than that substance is a thing or being ; or in short , something they know not what . is there no difference between the bare being of a thing , and its subsistence by it self ? i had thought accidents or modes of matter which make sensible impressions on us , were things or beings ; or else there could be no effect of them , but you will not say they subsist of themselves , and are in no other thing as the proper subject of them , and you confess at last , that substance doth imply that it is not supported it self as a mode or accident . so that our european philosophers happen to be in the right at last . well! but i would think it hard to be thought to discard every thing which i do not comprehend ; for i own mysteries . why then should i charge others for discarding substance , because they have but a confused idea of it . this is the force of the charge which i bring into as few words , as may be , but without the least intention to abate the strength of it . to which i answer , that i do not charge them with discarding the notion of substance , because they have but an imperfect idea of it ; but because upon those principles there can be no certain idea at all of it , whereas i assert it to be one of the most natural and certain ideas in our minds , because it is a repugnance to our first conception of things that modes or accidents should subsist by themselves ; and therefore i said the rational idea of substance is one of the first ideas in our minds ; and however imperfect and obscure our notion be , yet we are as certain that substances are and must be , as that there are any beings in the world. herein you tell me you agree with me , and therefore you hope this is no objection against the trinity . i never thought it was , but to lay all foundation of certainty as to matters of faith upon clear and distinct ideas , which was the opinion i opposed , does certainly overthrow all mysteries of faith , and excludes the notion of substance out of rational discourse , which at length you apprehend to have been my meaning . but , say you , if any assert , that we can have no ideas but from sensation or reflection , you declare , that this is not your opinion . i am very glad of it : and i will do you all the right i can in this matter . but we must take your meaning from your own words . and there are three particulars you express it in . ( . ) that your meaning was , to signifie all those complex ideas of modes , relations , and specifick substances , which the mind forms out of simple ideas . so that these ideas are allowed by you although they come not by sensation or reflection . but is not the notion of particular substances a complex idea , because it is a complication of simple ideas , as will presently appear from your own words ; but all simple ideas come in by sensation and reflection . but you may say the combination of them to make one idea , is an act of the mind , and so this idea is not from sensation or reflection . it seems then , the mind hath a power to form one complex idea out of many simple ones , and this makes a true idea of a particular substance not coming in by sensation or reflection . but i am still to seek , how this comes to make an idea of substance ; i understand it very well to be a complex idea of so many accidents put together ; but i cannot understand , how a complex idea of accidents should make an idea of substance . and till you do this you are as far as ever from a true idea of substance , notwithstanding your complex ideas . ( . ) you never said that the general idea of substance comes in by sensation or reflection . and if there be any expressions that seem to assert it to be by a complication of simple ideas , ( and not by abstracting and inlarging them ) because we accustom our selves to suppose a substratum ; it ought to be look'd on as a slip of the pen , or a negligence of expression . in which cases , i think no man ought to be severe . but was there not too much occasion given for others to think , that the idea of particular substance was only a complication of simple ideas ; and because all simple ideas do come in , you say , only by sensation and reflection , therefore all the ideas of particular substance ( which is but a complication of them ) must either come in those ways , or else we can have no true idea of particular substance at all ? so that there are two things , wherein you are very far from giving satisfaction . . that although you say , that the idea of substance in general is made by abstraction ; yet you add , that all the ideas we have of particular distinct substances are nothing but several combinations of simple ideas . from whence it is plain , that according to your repeated assertions , we can have no idea of particular and distinct substances , but what is made up of a complication of simple ideas : and although there may be some abstracted notion or general idea of substance , which is only an act of the mind , yet there is no real idea of any particular substance , but what is a complication of simple ideas . and that a man hath no other idea of any substance , let it be gold or horse , iron , man , vitriol , bread , but what he has barely of those sensible qualities , which he supposes to inhere with a supposition of such a substratum , as gives as it were a support to those qualities or simple ideas , which he has observed to exist united together . these are your own words ; and what can the meaning of them be , but that we neither have nor can have any idea of a particular substance , but only with respect to the simple ideas which make it up ; and these being sensible qualities , there is no such thing as an idea of substance , but only a supposition of a substratum to support accidents . . that although the idea of substance be made doubtfull by attributing it only to our accustoming our selves to suppose some substratum ; yet the being of substance is not . how is this possible ? is not the being doubtfull if the idea be ; and all our certainty come in by ideas ? no , say you , the being would not be shaken , if we had no idea of substance at all . what! not as to our knowledge ? but you say , there are many things in nature of which we have no ideas . and can we have any certainty of reason as to those things ? for about that our debate is , viz. what certainty we can have as to substance , if we can have no idea of it ? so that the being of substance on these principles is far from being safe and secure as to us , when we have so lame an account of the idea of it . but you have yet a farther distinction to bring off the idea of substance ; for you say , ( . ) that the idea of substance is a relative idea . for the mind can frame to it self ideas of relation , and perceiving that accidents cannot subsist of themselves , but have a necessary connexion with inherence or being supported , which being a relative idea , it frames the correlative of a support , which is substance . and now i think we have all that is said in defence of the idea of substance ; viz. that there is a complex , abstracted and relative idea of it ; which is derived from the simple ideas got by sensation or reflection . but this relative abstracted idea is confessed to be an obscure , indistinct , vague idea of thing or something ; and is all that is left to be the positive idea , which hath the relation of a support or substratum to modes or accidents : and that what idea we have of particular and distinct substances is nothing but a complication of simple ideas with the supposition of a substratum or support . these being the concessions and distinctions you make in this matter , i must now return to the occasion of this debate , which was , whether the ground of our certainty , as to the nature of substance can be resolved into the simple ideas we receive in by sensation or reflection . the question is not , whether you doubt or deny any such being as substance in the world ? nor whether the notion you have of it be clear and distinct ? for you confess it is not ; but the point in debate is , what certainty we can have of the nature of substance from the simple ideas we have by sensation or reflection ? and here the question is not , whether the mind cannot form complex and abstracted general ideas from those simple ideas ? but whether those simple ideas are the foundation of our knowledge and certainty as to the nature of substance ? for you affirm over and over ( if i may have leave to say so ) that the simple ideas we have by sensation and reflection are the foundation of all our knowledge . and yet that the ideas we have of particular distinct substances are nothing but several combinations of simple ideas of accidents . which being supposed , i think it no hard matter to make it appear that we cannot come to any certainty as to the nature of substance in this way of ideas . for , . the simple ideas afford no ground of certainty any farther than as to themselves . outward objects make an impression on our senses ; and all the certainty we have by them is that our senses are so and so affected by them ; but what that is in those objects which produces those effects in us , these simple ideas do not acquaint us . for the old or new doctrine of qualities may be true , notwithstanding any effect of these simple ideas upon us ; for the same effects would be whether there be real qualities in the objects , or only a power to make such impressions on us , which we fancy to be qualities without us . and so for our inward perceptions ; we certainly know , that we have a power of thinking , doubting , considering , &c. these simple ideas we are very certain of ; but whether these perceptions come from a material or immaterial substance , you say , cannot be certainly known by these simple ideas : for you think matter may be so refined and modified as to produce them . now it is a very strange thing to me , that men of understanding should make these simple ideas the foundation of all our knowledge and certainty ; and yet , that we should be able to attain to no certainty at all by them , from whence they proceed . for if these ideas were intended for the means of our attaining to any certainty , this would be the first thing we should know by them . it is not distinguishing primary and secondary qualities will help us out here . for these sensible qualities of bodies , which arise from the first , viz. bulk , figure , texture and motion of parts , do not carry any evidence along with them that they are not resemblances of something in the objects as well as the primary . it is very easie to affirm , that there is in truth nothing in the objects themselves , but only powers to produce various sensations in us : but i intend not to dispute whether it be so or not ; all that i observe , is , that there have been philosophers , both european and others , of another opinion ; and that these simple ideas , which are said to be the only foundation of our knowledge , do not help us one jot in the discovery . for it is confessed by your self , that sensation discovers nothing of bulk , figure or motion of parts in the production of sensible qualities , nor can reason shew how bodies by their bulk , figure and motion should produce in the mind the ideas of blew , yellow , &c. how then are these simple ideas the foundation of our knowledge and certainty , when by them we can discover nothing of the true causes of those impressions which are made upon us ? and you own , that the ideas of sensation are often corrected by iudgment , and that so insensibly , that we are apt to mistake one for the other ; so that these simple ideas are but a very slippery and uncertain foundation for our knowledge , unless reason and judgment be watchfull to prevent the errors we are liable to in the ideas of sensation but if no more be meant by the simple ideas that come in by sensation or reflection , and their being the foundation of our knowledge , but that our notions of things come in either from our senses or the exercise of our minds : as there is nothing extraordinary in the discovery , so i am far enough from opposing that , wherein i think all mankind are agreed . but when new terms are made use of by ill men to promote scepticism and infidelity , and to overthrow the mysteries of our faith , we have then reason to enquire into them , and to examine the foundation and tendency of them . and this was the true and only reason of my looking into this way of certainty by ideas , because i found it applied to such purposes . ( . ) the idea of particular substances being only the complication of many simple ideas , can give no greater foundation of knowledge or certainty than those simple ideas of which it consists . which is so clear of it self , that i shall not go about to prove it . but that you make the ideas of particular substances to be no other , is plain from the several places before mention'd , produced by your self in this book . so that as to the notion of particular substances , we can find no foundation of knowledge or certainty at all from the ideas . it cannot be denied , that you joyn the supposition of a substratum with this complication of simple ideas ; but we must take notice that you place the idea of particular and distinct substances in that complication , and only reserve the supposition of the substratum , as a general confused unknown thing , which makes no part of the idea , but is only kept at a dead lift to support accidents . your words are , when we talk or think of any particular sort of corporeal substance , as horse , stone , &c. tho' the idea we have of either of them be but the complication or collection of those several simple ideas of sensible qualities , we use to find united in the thing called horse or stone : then follows , yet we suppose them existing in some common subject , &c. so that the idea was compleat before the supposition . and again , whatever be the secret nature of substance in general , all the ideas we have of particular substances are nothing but several combinations of simple ideas . can any thing be plainer ? yet there follows , co-existing in such , though unknown cause of their vnion , as makes the whole subsist of it self . here we have still an unknown support , but made no part of the idea it self . in another place , the idea of substance is said to be a complication of many ideas together , because not imagining how these simple ideas can subsist by themselves , we accustom our selves to suppose some substratum which we call substance . and this is said to be the notion of pure substance in general , and not of any particular substance , which consists in a complication only of simple ideas . ( . ) the relative idea of substance arising from the necessary support of accidents is a mere effect of reason and judgment , and no effect of any simple ideas . for it arises from nothing suggested by the ideas of sensation or reflection , but it comes only from the mind it self . because , as i said before , it is a repugnancy to our first conception of things , that modes or accidents should subsist by themselves . but which of the simple ideas is this built upon ? you tell me , you say the same thing , and quote these words of yours ; and i say , because we cannot conceive how simple ideas of sensible qualities should subsist alone , or one in another , we suppose them existing in and supported by some common subject . but you have not told me , how this is founded on the simple ideas , which was your main point ; you boast , you say , of my agreement with you herein : i wish we might as well agree in all other things under debate ; but why did you not inform me , how you came to this , by your simple ideas ; and what steps and progress you made in the complication of your simple ideas before you came to it . for truly , i should have found some difficulty in it , since you make the idea of a particular substance a complication of many simple ideas : for if it be so , how could a complication of simple ideas , which cannot subsist by themselves , make the idea of a substance which doth subsist by it self ? this looks a little untowardly in the way of knowledge and certainty . but there is no help for it , a substratum must be supposed to support these unlucky accidents . let it be so then . how came we to know that these accidents were such feeble things ? what simple ideas inform'd you of it ? if none , then it is to be hoped there is some other way to attain knowledge and certainty in this matter . no ; you tell me , there is no need of any other way , but this of ideas . how so ? your words are these , the general indetermined idea of something , is by the abstraction of the mind derived also from the simple ideas of sensation and reflection . but alas ! we are not upon the general indetermined idea of something ; but upon the particular idea of distinct substances , which is granted not to be by abstraction , but by a complication of simple ideas . so that this is quite off from the matter . but as to your general abstracted idea , i have something farther to say . ( . ) a general abstracted idea of substance is no real substance , nor a true idea of one , if particular substances be nothing but a complication of simple ideas . for you say , that the mind by abstraction from the positive simple ideas got by sensation or reflection comes to the general relative idea of substance . if then the general idea be raised from the simple ideas , and those simple ideas make that of particular and distinct substances only by complication , then the general idea of substance can be nothing but an abstracted complication of these simple ideas , or else it is not by abstraction from the simple ideas . but i do not deny that there is a general nature of substance , which is as real as a general idea can be , and it is that , which makes any particular substance be what it is in its own nature without respect to individual modes and properties . and although this general substance doth not exist of it self , yet it doth really exist in the several individuals that belong to its kind ; and the several kinds of particular substances are really distinguished from each other , not merely by simple ideas of sensible qualities , but by their inward frame and constitution : as the substance of a man is from that of a horse or a tree . for it is ridiculous to imagine , that these really differ from each other only as individuals of the same sort under the general abstracted idea of substance . and if there be substances of several kinds really different from each other , an account must be given , not only of the general notion of a substratum for accidents , but of the specifick nature of different substances , and wherein the difference of the unknown support lies , as to the modes and accidents of their kinds , which i despair of ever seeing done by the simple ideas of sensation and reflection . and your self confess , that we have no idea of abstract substance ; and that by the complex idea of sensible qualities , we are as far from the idea of the substance of body , as if we knew nothing at all . and now i freely leave the reader to judge whether this be a tolerable account of the idea of substance by sensation or reflection , and whether i deserve so much to be complained of , for exposing the unreasonableness of laying the foundation of all our certainty and knowledge upon simple ideas which we receive by sensation or reflection . but before i proceed further , it will be proper here to take notice how you justifie your idea of substance from the etymology of the word ; which , say you , is standing under or upholding . i told you very little weight is to be laid on a bare grammatical etymology , when the word is otherwise used by the best authors for the essence of a thing ; and i named cicero and quinctilian ; and the greek word imports the same . but still you say , it is derived à substando ; and you tell us your opinion , that if we knew the original of words , we should be much helped to the ideas they were first applied to and made to stand for . if you mean the true ideas of them , i must beg leave to differ in my opinion , and my reason is this , because words were used before men came to form philosophical notions or ideas of things ; and therefore they were forced to make use of words applied in another sense ; or else to coin words on purpose to express their own ( as cicero often doth , as qualities , evidence , comprehension , &c. ) so that if substare were used in another sense before , it doth not follow , that it ought to be so , when we enquire into the true ideas of things . but one of the best criticks of the latin tongue in our age , hath told us , that substantia is so called , quia per se substat . and substare is used by terence , not for standing under , but for being stedfast , metuo ut substet hospes . but as to your general observation ; i think there are very few words used in the philosophical language of the romans , but what were taken off from the original sense they were applied to ; as persona was first taken for a man in masquerade , genus for a pedegree , species for a sight , from specio , to see , virtus for manly courage , and distinguish'd from probity . sit virtus etiam non probitate minor . ovid. de pont. l. . and so anima was first taken for the breath in the body , as well as spiritus . thence varro saith , their ancestors , although they eat leeks and onions , yet were bene animati , had no ill breath ; and thence animam agere and efflare , saith cicero ; and from anima , he saith , came animus , by which they understood the mind ; hinc animus ad intelligentiam tributus , saith varro ▪ and many others of a like nature . but i shall only add one more , and that is the name of idea , so very often used by your self and others of late . i wish we had been told the original use of it , and how it was first applied , that we might better judge of the true meaning of it now when so much weight is laid upon it . i find in thucydides , who was an accurate writer , and understood the true sense of words , that an idea is used by him for an appearance and shew without reality , as when he saith , that the athenians in dealing with the sicilians , made use of the same idea which they had done before . where it can signifie nothing but what he calls before a pretence . but when the philosophers came to use this word , they applied it to another sense ; plato made use of it to signifie the true exemplars or models of things , according to which the several sorts of them were framed and distinguished . this notion he had , as many others , from the pythagoreans , but what they mystically called numbers he called ideas . but idea in its original sense from the etymology of it , is derived from seeing , and so the natural sense of it is something visible ; from thence it came to signifie the impression made in us from our senses ; and thence it was carried to the general notion of a thing , and from thence by metaphysical and abstracted speculations to the original exemplars of particular essences , which were simple and vniform and not liable to those changes which visible objects are subject to . so cicero tells us , plato formed his notion of idea , which he would by no means allow to any representation made by our senses , which are dull , heavy , uncertain and imperfect either by the minuteness , or distance , or mutability of the objects ; thence the philosophers of his school denied any true grounds of certainty to be laid in the ideas we have by our senses , which can only afford ground for probability ( not as to the bare objects ) but as to the notions we take from them . but all knowledge and certainty was placed in the acts of the mind ( scientiam nusquam esse censebant nisi in animi notionibus atque rationibus ) i. e. in examining and comparing , not the bare ideas , but the definitions of things ; and from these , judging of the truth and certainty of them . and if our ideas of things be so few , so superficial , and so imperfect as you confess them to be ; if we are so much to seek , as to the connexion of ideas , and the finding out proper intermediate ideas , i am afraid this way of certainty by ideas will come to very little at last . and so this agreement and disagreement of ideas will have the fate of the stoicks criterion of truth , which only multiplied disputes , but ended none . never any men talked more of certainty than they ; and they boasted of their discoveries of the true grounds of it : and the question then was not about a criterion of the bare existence of things ; ( about which they allow'd the judgment of the senses to be sufficient , and the ideas from them to be true ; ) nor was it about a criterion for the actions of life , for which they thought probability or opinion sufficient ; but it was about finding out such a mark of truth in the ideas of our minds as could not agree to a falshood , i. e. such an impression or signature , as cicero expresses it , as appear'd in that which was , which could not be found in that which was not . and this was called visum , or a true idea ; his words are , quale igitur visum ? quod ex eo quod esset , sicut esset , impressum est , signatum , & effectum . the greeks called it a comprehensive idea , which they compared to light , which discovers it self as well as other things . but when they came to be pinched with particular difficulties about the natures of things , they were never able to make out that infallible mark of truth in their idea ; and yet this was a more likely way to have found it , than to place the grounds of certainty in the comparing the agreement and disagreement of ideas , unless it could be made out that we have a full stock of ideas , and are able to discern and make out the connexion of them with one another . for if we fail in either of these , the talking of ideas and comparing those which we have will do us little service in finding out of truth . but i confess , the design in general is so good , that it's pity that it should lie open to so many objections ; and much more , that it should be abused to very bad purposes . but my joyning your words with another's application , is that which hath given you so much offence as to make you think it necessary to publish this letter for your vindication . . i come therefore now to shew the care i took to prevent being mis-understood ; which will best appear by my own words . i must do that right to the ingenious author of the essay of humane vnderstanding , ( from whence these notions are borrow'd to serve other purposes than he intended them , ) that he makes the case of spiritual and corporeal substances to be alike . it was too plain , that the bold writer against the mysteries of our faith took his notions and expressions from thence , and what could be said more for your vindication , than that he turned them to other purposes than the author intended them ? and the true reason why the plural number was so often used by me , was because he built upon those which he imagin'd had been your grounds , and my business was to shew that those expressions of yours , which seemed most to countenance his method of proceeding could not give any reasonable satisfaction . but you say , you do not place certainty only in clear and distinct ideas ; but in the clear and visible connection of any of our ideas . and certainty of knowledge , you tell us , is to perceive the agreement or disagreement of ideas , as expressed in any proposition . whether this be a true account of the certainty of knowledge or not , will be presently consider'd . but it is very possible he might mistake or misapply your notions ; but there is too much reason to believe , he thought them the same , and we have no reason to be sorry , that he hath given you this occasion for the explaining your meaning , and for the vindication of your self in the matters you apprehend i had charged you with : and if your answer doth not come fully up in all things to what i could wish , yet i am glad to find that in general you own the mysteries of the christian faith , and the scriptures to be the foundation and rule of it . for thus you conclude your book , in the last paragraph of the postscript . the holy scripture is to me , and always will be the constant guide of my assent , and i shall always hearken to it , as containing infallible truth relating to things of the highest concernment . and i wish i could say there were no mysteries in it ; i acknowledge there are to me , and i fear always will be . but where i want the evidence of things , there yet is ground enough for me to believe , because god hath said it : and i shall presently condemn and quit any opinion of mine , as soon as i am shewn that it is contrary to any revelation in the holy scripture . which words seem to express so much of a christian spirit and temper , that i cannot believe you intended to give any advantage to the enemies of the christian faith ; but whether there hath not been too just occasion for them to apply them in that manner is a thing very fit for you to consider . for in an age wherein the mysteries of faith are so much exposed by the promoters of scepticism and infidelity , it is a thing of dangerous consequence to start such new methods of certainty as are apt to leave mens minds more doubtfull than before ; as will soon appear from your own concessions . for if the ground of certainty be resolved into the agreement and disagreement of the ideas as expressed in any proposition ; is it not natural enough from hence to infer , that from whencesoever this proposition comes , i must judge of it by the agreement or disagreement of the ideas contained in it ? you make a distinction between the certainty of truth and the certainty of knowledge . the former you say , is when words are so put together in propositions as exactly to express the agreement or disagreement of the ideas they stand for : and the latter , when we perceive the agreement or disagreement of ideas , as expressed in any proposition . but our question about certainty must relate to what we perceive , and the means we have to judge of the truth and falshood of things as they are expressed to us ; which you tell us , is by the agreement or disagreement of the ideas in the proposition . and in another place , where-ever we perceive the agreement or disagreement of any of our ideas , there is certain knowledge ; and when-ever we are sure those ideas agree with the reality of things , there is certain real knowledge : and then conclude , i think i have shewn wherein it is that certainty , real certainty , consists , which , what-ever it was to others , was , i confess , to me heretofore , one of those desiderata which i found great want of . so that here is plainly a new method of certainty owned , and that placed in the agreement and disagreement of ideas . but the author already mention'd , professes to go upon the same grounds , and therefore it was necessary for me to examine them . he saith , that the simple and distinct ideas we receive by sensation and reflection are the sole matter and foundation of all our reasoning ; and that our knowledge is in effect nothing else but the perception of the agreement or disagreement of our ideas . and that where our perception is not immediate , our certainty comes from the clear and visible connexion of ideas . for he saith , that if the connexion of all the intermediate ideas be not indubitable , we can have no certainty . wherein now do his grounds of certainty differ from yours ? but he applies them to other purposes . i grant he doth so , and that was it which i had said for your vindication . but the question now is , whether your general expression had not given him too much occasion for it ? it is true , that ch . he distinguishes the means of information from the ground of perswasion ; and he reckons all authority divine as well as human among the means of information : and the ground of perswasion he makes to be nothing but evidence ; and this evidence , he saith , lies in our ideas , ch. . in the agreement or disagreement of them , p. . and he places certainty in our clear perceptions of this agreement or disagreement , which you call clear and visible connexion of ideas . and wherein then lies the difference as to the grounds of certainty ? but his design is to overthrow the mysteries of faith. this is too true . but upon what grounds ? is it not upon this principle , that our certainty depends upon the clear perception of the agreement or disagreement of ideas in any proposition . now let the proposition come to us either by human or divine authority : if our certainty depends upon this , we can be no more certain , than we have clear perception of the agreement or disagreement of the ideas contained in it ; and so he thought he had reason to reject all mysteries of faith , which are contained in propositions , upon your grounds of certainty . but you say , you own the infallible truth of the scriptures , and that where you want the evidence of things there is ground enough for you to believe , because god hath said it . i do verily believe you , because i have a far greater opinion of your sincerity and integrity than i see reason for , as to the other person who pretends mightily to own the authority of scripture at the same time when he undermines it . for his words are , the authority of god or divine revelation is the manifestation of truth by truth it self , to whom it is impossible to lye , p. . but when he comes to state the point , how far we are to believe upon divine revelation , he hath these words , sect. . ch . . n. . the natural result of what hath been said is , that to believe the divinity of scripture , or the sense of any passage thereof without rational proofs , and an evident consistency is a blameable credulity , and a temerarian opinion ordinarily grounded upon an ignorant and wilfull disposition . and in the next chapter he saith , that revelation is not a necessitating motive , but a mean of information . not the bare authority of him that speaks , but the clear conception i form of what he says is the ground of my perswasion . and again , whoever reveals any thing , his words must be intelligible , and the matter possible . this rule holds good , let god or man be the revealer . as for unintelligible relations , we can no more believe them from the revelation of god , than from that of man. sect. . ch . . n. . p. . but what are all these things to you , who own , that where you want the evidence of things , the authority of revelation is ground enough for you to believe . i do not impute them to you , but i must say , that he alledges no ground for his sayings but your ground of certainty : for in the same page he saith , that the conceived ideas of things are the only subjects of believing , denying , approving , and every other act of the understanding . all the difference we see is , that he applies that to propositions in scripture , which you affirm'd of propositions in general , viz. that our certainty depends upon the clear perception of the agreement or disagreement of the ideas contained in them . but i shall do you all the right i can , as to this matter , by shewing what reason i had to say , that your notions were turn'd to other purposes than you intended them , and that i shall make appear from several passages in the same book . . you own the great defects of humane knowledge , notwithstanding the simple ideas we have by sensation or reflection . and from these things , . the paucity and imperfection of our ideas in general ; because our sensation and reflection goes so little a way in respect of the vast extent of the universe ; and the infinite power and wisdom of the creator of it : so that what we see in the intellectual and sensible world , holds no proportion to what we see not : and whatever we can reach with our eyes or our thoughts of either of them , is but a point , almost nothing in comparison of the rest . . the want of ideas which we are capable of , because although we have ideas in general of bulk , figure and motion ; yet we are to seek as to the particulars of them in the greatest part of the bodies of the universe ; although we daily see their effects . and that because of the distance and remoteness of some , and the minuteness of others , and therefore we cannot come to a scientifical knowledge in natural things , much less to that of spiritual beings , of which we have only some few and superficial ideas . . want of a discoverable connexion between those ideas we have . because the mechanical affections of bodies have no affinity at all with the ideas they produce in us ; there being no conceivable connexion between any impulse of any sort of body , and any perception of any colour or smell which we find in our minds . and so the operations of our minds upon our bodies are unconceiveable by us ; and the coherence and continuity of parts of matter ; and the original rules and communication of motion , are such as we can discover no natural connexion with any ideas we have . . want of finding out such intermediate ideas , which may shew us the agreement or disagreement they have one with another . and this for want of due application of mind in acquiring , examining and due comparing those ideas ; and by ill use of words , which have so much perplexed and confounded mens understanding . . you own the many failings in our reason . by which you understand two faculties in our minds , viz. sagacity and illation ; the one finding out , and the other ordering the intermediate ideas ; so as to discover the connexion between them . but reason , you say , fails , where our ideas fail us , and because of the obscurity , confusion or imperfection of our ideas , both as to matter and our own minds , and the divine operations ; and for want of intermediate ideas ; and by proceeding upon false principles and dubious expressions . . as to propositions you own these things ; . those are according to reason , whose truth we can discover , by examining and tracing those ideas we have by sensation or reflection ; and by natural deduction find to be true or probable . . those are above reason , whose truth or probability we cannot by reason derive from those principles . . those are contrary to reason , which are inconsistent with , or irreconcileable to our clear and distinct ideas . . as to faith and divine revelation you own , . that faith is the assent to any proposition , not thus made out by deductions of reason , but upon the credit of the proposer , as coming immediately from god which we call revelation . . that things above reason and not contrary to it , are properly matters of faith , and to be assented to on the authority of divine revelation . thus far i have endeavoured with all possible brevity and clearness to lay down your sense about this matter . by which it is sufficiently proved that i had reason to say , that your notions were carried beyond your intention . but you still seem concerned that i quote your words , although i declare , that they were used to other purposes than you intended them . i do confess to you , that the reason of it was , that i found your notions as to certainty by ideas was the main foundation which the author of christianity not mysterious went upon ; and that he had nothing which look'd like reason , if that principle were removed ; which made me so much endeavour to shew that it would not hold . and so i suppose the reason of my mentioning your words so often is no longer a riddle to you . i now proceed to other particulars of your vindication . among other arguments against this principle of certainty , i instanced in the being of spiritual substances within our selves , from the operations of our minds , which we do perceive by reflection , as thinking , doubting , considering , &c. this argument i yielded to be very good ; but that which i urged from thence was , that it could not be from those simple ideas of the operations of the mind ; because you had affirmed that it is impossible for us by the contemplation of our ideas to be certain without revelation that a material substance cannot think . this is a point , in my apprehension , of great consequence , and therefore i must more strictly examine what you say in answer to it . which is , that thinking is inconsistent with the idea of self subsistence , and therefore hath a necessary connexion with a support or subject of inhesion , i. e. if there be thinking there must be something that thinks . but the question is , whether that something be a material or immaterial substance ? but this thinking substance is in your sense a spirit . the question i put is , whether matter can think or not ? if not , then the substance which thinks must be immaterial ; if it can think , then there can be no evidence from the idea of thinking to prove the substance which thinks to be immaterial . this i take to be plain reasoning ; which you must allow , because it is about the agreement or disagreement of two simple ideas , viz. matter and thinking . but you say , that the general idea of substance being the same every-where , the modification of thinking , or the power of thinking joyned to it makes it a spirit , without considering what other modification it has , as whether it has the modification of solidity or not . as on the other side , substance , which hath the modification of solidity , is matter , whether it has the modification of thinking or not . and therefore if i mean by a spiritual an immaterial substance , you grant that you have not proved nor upon your principles can it be demonstratively proved , that there is an immaterial substance in us that thinks . i have thus set down your own words , that you may not complain i have done you injury . but when you put in demonstratively proved , i suppose you mean in the way of certainty by ideas ; for concerning that our dispute is . and therefore when you add , that you expect that i should conclude it demonstrable from principles of philosophy ; you must give me leave to say , this is going off from the business before us ; which is about your principles of certainty from ideas ; for it was only to that purpose , that i brought this argument to prove , that we cannot from our ideas be certain of one of the points of greatest importance , viz. that there is a spiritual substance within us ; and yet the operations of our mind are made one of the sources of those simple ideas , which are made by you the foundation of knowledge and certainty . so that the point before us is , whether this assertion of yours , that the power of thinking may belong to modified matter , doth not overthrow your certainty by ideas ? no , say you , that which you are certain of by the idea is only , that there is in us a spiritual substance , and that , you say , implies no more than a thinking substance , i. e. that by thinking you can prove you have a power of thinking , which i believe may be demonstratively proved . but i pray sir , consider how this question arose , it was from your distinguishing spiritual and corporeal substances from each other ; and saying that we have as clear a notion of a spirit as we have of a body . against this i urged , that if it be possible for matter to think , which you assert , then from the idea of thinking , we cannot prove the certainty of a spiritual substance within us , where it is plain , that a spiritual substance is opposed to the power of matter . it is not , whether matter so modified can think , but whether matter can think ; and let it be modified how it will , matter is matter still . but the power of thinking makes it a spirit , say you . but doth it cease to be matter or not ? if not , then it is matter still endued with a power of thinking ; and so our idea can be no other , than of a material thinking substance . but you say further , that the power of thinking makes it a spirit , without considering what other modifications it has , whether it hath the modification of solidity or not . that is , although it be really a material substance , yet the modification of thinking makes it a spiritual substance ; for we are to go no farther than that modification of thinking , and from thence we are to conclude it to be a spiritual substance . but we are now enquiring not into the bare modification of thinking ; but whether from thence we can prove an immaterial substance within us , or which is all one , a spiritual substance as opposed to corporeal , which is your own distinction . and that i may not be thought to do you injury , i shall produce your own words . by the simple ideas we have taken from our own minds — we are able to frame the complex idea of a spirit . and thus by putting together the ideas of thinking , perceiving , liberty and power of moving themselves , we have as clear a perception and notion of immaterial substances , as well as material . so that here we have two things clear . . that a spirit and immaterial substance are the same . . that from the operations of our minds , we have a clear idea of an immaterial substance within us . again you say , that the primary ideas we have of body as contradistinguished to spirit , are the cohesion of solid and consequently separable parts , and a power of communicating motion by impulse . these you think are the original ideas proper and peculiar to body . here body is contradistinguished to spirit ; and as it is so , the cohesion of solid and separable parts is made one of the original ideas proper and peculiar to body as distinguished from a spiritual substance : how then , i pray , can a spiritual substance consist of solid and separable parts ? for whatever is solid , you grant to be consequently separable . this seems to me to confound the ideas of body and spirit , which you had taken so much care to distinguish ; and so must destroy all certainty of a spiritual substance from your ideas . for although the bare simple idea of thinking may be said to be distinct from that of a solid body ; yet it is impossible from that idea so explained to prove a spiritual substance , as distinct from body . which was the thing i intended to prove . but you go on to compare the complex idea of spirit and body in these words ; let us compare then our complex idea of spirit , without our complex idea of body . our idea of bod● is an extended solid substance , capable of communicating motion by impulse ; and our idea of our souls is of a substance that thinks and has a power of exciting motion in body by will and thought . these you think are our complex ideas of soul and body as contradistinguished . here you do not speak of the bare ideas of thinking and solidity ; but of the different substances , and one is said to be a solid substance and the other a substance that thinks . i shall add one passage more to the same purpose . the idea we have of spirit compared with that we have of body , stands thus . the substance of spirit is unknown to us , and so is the substance of body equally unknown to us . here we have again the substance of spirit and the substance of body distinguished from each other ; and not the bare modifications . so that i need no body to answer you but your self . but least such expressions should be thought a mere slip of the pen ; you are pleased again to assert the notion of an immaterial knowing substance to imply no more of a contradiction than an extended divisible body . and yet after all this you confess , that you have not proved an immaterial substance , and that it cannot be proved upon your principles . what is the meaning of this ? i cannot think you intended to lessen the authority of your book in so considerable a part of it : and i should much rather have thought the latter passage a slip of your pen , but that in your letter you go about to defend it . therefore i must attend your motions in it . you say , that all the great ends of religion and morality are secured barely by the immortality of the soul without a necessary supposition that the soul is immaterial . i am of opinion , that the great ends of religion and morality are best secured by the proofs of the immortality of the soul from its nature and properties ; and which i think prove it immaterial . i do not question whether god can give immortality to a material substance ; but i say it takes off very much from the evidence of immortality , if it depend wholly upon god's giving that , which of its own nature it is not capable of . for if the soul be a material substance it is really nothing but life ; or matter put into motion with such organs and parts as are necessary to hold them together ; and when death comes , then this material substance so modified is lost . god may by his power grant a new life ; but will any man say , god can preserve the life of a man when he is dead ? this is a plain absurdity , and i think no such thing tends to preserve religion or morality . mr. hobbes speaks very consonantly to his own principles ( although not to those of religion and morality . ) for he saith , that the universe being the aggregate of all bodies , there is no real part of it that is not also a body . and so he saith , that substance and body signifie the same thing , and therefore substance incorporeal are words which destroy one another . but what then is a spirit ? that , he saith , in the proper signification of it in common speech , is either a subtle , fluid , invisible body , or a ghost , or other idol or phantasm of the imagination . but is there not an immortal soul in man ? the promise of immortality , saith he , is made to the man and not to the soul ▪ and immortal life doth not begin in man till the resurrection . from whence it is plain , he look'd on the soul as nothing but the life ; and so he saith , that soul and life in scripture do usually signifie the same thing . and in the vindication of his leviathan , he saith , that his doctrine is , that the soul is not a separated substance , but that the man at his resurrection shall be revived . and he answers that place , fear not them which kill the body , but cannot kill the soul ; thus ▪ man cannot kill a soul , for the man killed shall revive again . i think he might as well have said , that man cannot kill the body ; for that shall be revived at the resurrection . but what is all this to you ? i hope nothing at all . but it shews , that those who have gone about to overthrow the immortality of the soul by nature , have not been thought to secure the great ends of religion and morality . and although we think the separate state of the soul after death is sufficiently revealed in scripture , yet it creates a great difficulty in understanding it , if the soul be nothing but life , or a material substance , which must be dissolved when life is ended . for if the soul be a material substance it must be made up as others are , of the cohesion of solid and separate parts , how minute and invisible soever they be . and what is it which should keep them together , when life is gone ? so that it is no easie matter to give an account , how the soul should be capable of immortality , unless it be an immaterial substance ; and then we know the solution of the texture of bodies cannot reach the soul being of a different nature . and this is no more than what the wisest and most intelligent philosophers have asserted , merely from the consideration of the nature and properties of the soul : as you very well know ; and i need not for your sake , run into such a digression , ( or as you call it step out of my way ) any farther , then you give occasion for it in what follows . for you tell me , you have great authorities to justifie your using a spiritual substance without excluding materiality from it . and for this you refer me to two great men indeed among the romans , cicero and virgil. i was surprized at what you say out of cicero , having been no stranger to his writings about these matters , and i have consulted the place you refer to ; where you say that he opposes corpus to ignis and anima , i. e. breath ; and that the foundation of his distinction of the soul from the body is , because it is so subtle as to be out of sight . it is a very easie matter to multiply citations out of cicero , where spiritus and anima are both taken for breath ; but any one who will but read the very beginning of his tusculan questions , may understand his meaning . for in the entrance of that dispute he takes animus for the soul , and neither anima nor spiritus : and he tells us , there were two opinions about it at death . some held a discessus animi à corpore , a departure of the soul from the body , others said , that the soul never departed , but was extinguished with life : and the several opinions he sets down at large , ch. , . and then ch. . he summs up the different opinions ; and saith he , if it be the heart , or blood , or brain ; because it is a body , it will be extinguished with it : if it be anima , the vital breath , it will be dissipated , if it be fire , it will be extinguished . it is true , he distinguishes here the vital breath from the body ; and no one questions such a distinction of the animal and vital spirits from the grosser parts of the body ; but all this proceeds upon the supposition of those who held nothing to survive after death ; but then he goes on to those who held the souls , when they are gone out of their bodies , to go to heaven as their proper habitation . and here he plainly supposes the soul not to be a finer sort of body , but of a different nature from the body which it leaves . nam corpus quidem , saith he , quasi vas est & receptaculum animi , c. . and elsewhere he calls the body the prison of the soul , c. . and saith , that every wise man is glad to be dismissed out of the bonds and darkness of it : and his business in the body is secernere animum à corpore , to draw off the soul from the body ; which the philosophers called commentatio mortis , i. e. a continual exercise of dying ; therefore , saith he , disjungamus nos à corporibus , id est , consuescamus mori . is it possible now to think so great a man look'd on the soul but as a modification of the body , which must be at an end with life ? instead of it , there are several things very remarkable in this very book concerning the immortality of souls by nature ; . he extremely despises those who made the soul a mere mode of matter which was extinguished with life ; and he saith , they were plebeii philosophi , ch. . a mean sort of philosophers , and in another place minuti philosophi , de senect . c. . who held there was no sense after death . but he represents cato there , as weary of the noise and filth of this world , and longing to go to far better company . o praeclarum diem , cum ad illud divinum animorum concilium coetumque proficiscar , atque ex hâc turbâ & colluvione discedam ! did these men look on the souls of men , as mere modifications of matter ? . he urges the general consent of nations for the permanency of souls after death . c. . and he affirms nature it self de immortalitate animorum tacitè judicare , c. . and i do not think the general consent of mankind in this matter , so uncertain , or so slight an argument , as some have made it ; even since the late discoveries : as i think it were no hard matter to prove ; but i shall not here go out of my way to do it . . the most ancient philosophers of greece held the same opinion as he shews from pherecydes , pythagoras , socrates , plato , &c. c. , , &c. and they went upon far better reasons than the other , as he proves at large , c. , , . . that the bodies and souls of men have a different frame and original . our bodies , he saith , c. . are made of terrestrial principles ; but the souls , he saith , are of a divine original ; and if we could give an account how they were made , we should likewise how they were dissolved , c. . as we may of the parts and contexture of bodies ; but saith he , animorum nulla in terris origo inveniri potest , nihil est enim in animis mixtum atque concretum , aut quod ex terra natum atque fictum esse videatur , c. . so that here he plainly makes a difference between our bodily substance , and that of our souls , which have no bodily texture and composition ; because there is no material substance , which can reach to the wonderfull faculties and operations of the soul ; and therefore he concludes in these words , singularis est igitur quaedam natura atque vis animi sejuncta ab his usitatis notisque naturis . what can express the soul to be of a different substance from the body , if these words do it not ? and presently adds , that the mind is of a divine and spiritual nature and above material composition as god himself is . i hope this may give you satisfaction as to cicero , how far he was from making the soul a material substance . and the only place you produce out of him , c. . proves nothing but that the soul is invisible , as you may see by looking upon it again . as to virgil , you quote that expression , dum spiritus hos regit artus ; where it is taken for the vital spirit ; which sense i know no body questions ; and so tully expresses life , quae corpore & spiritu continetur , and opposes it to a life of immortal fame , which he there speaks of , pro marcello , c. . but the only matter in debate is , whether they excluded any other notion of spirit , which was not done , as i have made it appear concerning cicero , and so i shall of virgil too . for soon after , aeneid . . he hath these words , et cum frigida mors animae seduxerit artus , omnibus vmbra locis adero , dabis improbe poenas . which shews that virgil did believe the soul to be more than a mere vital spirit , and that it subsisted and acted in a separate state : and it is observed by servius , that virgil uses spiritus , mens and animus for the same . in aeneid . . spiritus intus alit , totamque infusa per artus . mens agitat molem — and he proves , that virgil asserted the immortality of souls , and answers the arguments against it ; and as far as he could understand , he saith , that our bodies are from the elements and our souls from god ; and the poets intention was , vt animos immortales diceret . so that neither cicero nor virgil do you any kindness in this matter , being both assertors of the souls immortality by nature . if these will not do you bring me to scripture , and say , that solomon himself speaks after the same manner about man and beast , as the one dieth , so dieth the other , yea , they have all one spirit , eccles. . . i will not dispute about the proper sense of the hebrew word , but i must about solomon's sense . for although he makes life and death common to man and beast ; yet he saith , v. . the spirit of a man goeth upward , and the spirit of a beast goeth down to the earth . but you say , if the notion of a spirit excludes materiality then the spirit of a beast must be immaterial , as well as that of a man. i answer , that although the bare word doth not prove it , yet the design of solomon's discourse doth , and so the going upward of the spirit of a man must be understood in a very different sense , from the going downward of the spirit of a beast . for he saith concerning man , that the spirit shall return to god that gave it , c. . . to what purpose ? to be dissipated in the common air ? or to be lost in the vast confusion of matter ? no , but he concludes his book thus ; v. . for god shall bring every work into iudgment with every secret thing , whether it be good , or whether it be evil . if these be solomon's words , as no doubt they were , and he were a man of sense , and laid his sayings together , as no doubt he did ; these last words must interpret the foregoing , and his other sayings be made consonant to this . yes , you may say , this relates to the general iudgment , and not to the soul's subsistence after death . but solomon speaks of the spirit of a man going upward at death , and returning to god that gave it : what sense is there in this , if it be a material substance which vanishes and is dissolved then ? and if the soul be not of it self a free , thinking substance , i do not see what foundation there is in nature for a day of judgment . for where there is nothing but matter , there is no freedom of acting ; where there is no liberty , there is no choice ; where there is no choice , there is no room for rewards and punishments , and consequently no day of iudgment . but solomon positively concludes , there will be a judgment to come as to good and evil actions in another world , and therefore he must be understood in those expressions , to mean a free and thinking , and consequently an immaterial spirit in us . but you urge farther , that our saviour himself opposes spirit to flesh and bones , luk. . . i. e. to such a gross compages as could be seen and felt . the question then was , whether it were the real body of christ or only an appearance of it ; and how could this be resolved better than our saviour doth ? handle me and see , for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as you see me have . but he calls this a spirit . what follows ? therefore a spirit is only an appearance ? i do not think that is your meaning . and no body questions but the name of spirits is sometimes given to apparitions . but this is far from our case , which is , whether that real spiritual substance we find in our selves be material or not ? doth a spiritual substance imply matter in its idea or not ? you cannot say it doth : then it may be immaterial : but how come we to know things but by their distinct ideas ? is the idea of matter and spirit distinct or not ? if not , to what purpose do we talk of knowledge by ideas when we cannot so much as know body and spirit from each other by them ? is it then any absurdity to call a spiritual substance immaterial ? no , you say , you would not be thought to affirm , that spirit never does signifie a purely immaterial substance ; for in that sense the scripture attributes the notion of spirit to god , and you have proved from your principles , that there is a spiritual immaterial substance . and this you think proves an immaterial substance in your way of ideas . but of that afterwards . we are yet upon the proving an immaterial substance in our selves from the ideas we have by sensation and reflection . now , i say , still this is impossible if the spiritual substance in us may be material . and at last you grant , that what i say is true , that it cannot upon these principles be demonstrated . then , say i , your grounds of certainty from ideas are plainly given up . but you say , it may be proved probable to the highest degree . but that is not the point ; for it is not probability , but certainty , that we are promised in this way of ideas ; and that the foundation of our knowledge and real certainty lies in them ; and is it dwindled into a probability at last ? the only reason i had to engage in this matter was a bold assertion , that the ideas we have by sensation or reflection are the sole matter and foundation of all our reasoning : and that our certainty lies in perceiving the agreement or disagreement of ideas as expressed in any proposition ; which last are your own words . how can we then be certain where we have no ideas from sensation or reflection to proceed by ? as in the present case . i have a mind to be resolved whether the soul in man be an immaterial substance or not ; and we are to judge of the truth of it by our ideas . i ask then , what idea you have of the soul by reflection ? you answer , that it is a thinking substance . but doth this prove it immaterial ? you answer , that you cannot be certain , but that it is very probable . is not this giving up the cause of certainty ? but you say , you never offer'd it as a way of certainty where we cannot reach certainty . but did you not offer to put us into the way of certainty ? what is that , but to attain certainty in such things , where we could not otherwise do it ? and what a strange way is this , if it fails us in some of the first foundations of the real knowledge of our selves ? but you say , if i dislike your way , you desire me to shew you a better way of certainty as to these points . i am sensible that you design herein , to draw me out of my way to do you a kindness ; but i will so far gratifie you at this time ; and to oblige you the more , i will make use of no other principles or ideas , than such as i meet with in your book ; and from thence i do not despair of proving , that we may be certain that a material substance cannot think . and the method i shall proceed in , shall be to prove it , by such ways and steps as you have directed me to , although you might not think to find them so laid together . . from your general principles as to knowledge and certainty . you say , that all our knowledge consists in the view the mind hath of its own ideas ; which is the utmost light and greatest certainty , we with our faculties and in our way of knowledge are capable of . here you resolve our knowledge and certainty into the view of the ideas in our minds ; therefore by those ideas we may come to know the certainty of things ; not in the frame and inward essence of them , as you often tell us ; but by the powers and properties which belong to them . whatever , say you , be the secret and abstract nature of substance in general , all the ideas we have of particular distinct substances , are nothing but several combinations of simple ideas and you take pains to prove , that powers make a great part of our complex ideas of substances : and their secondary qualities are those which in most of them serve principally to distinguish substances one from another ; which secondary qualities , as has been shewn are nothing but bare powers . so that our knowledge cannot reach the inward substance of things ; and all our certainty of knowledge as to them , and their distinction from each other , must depend on those powers and properties which are known to us . one would think sometimes , that you would allow mankind no more knowledge than suits with the conveniencies of life ; but this would overthrow the great design of your book , which is to put us into a way of real certainty by the agreement or disagreement of ideas ; and where ever we perceive the agreement or disagreement of any of our ideas , there is certain knowledge . so that here you own we may come to a certainty of knowledge ( which is beyond mere probability ) and that by perceiving the agreement or disagreement of ideas . . if we can find the disagreement of any two ideas upon your own principles , we must do those of body and spirit . for the idea of matter in general , you say , that in truth it contains nothing but the idea of a solid substance , which is every-where the same , every-where uniform . and that body stands for a solid extended figured substance . so that solidity , extension and figure are the inseparable properties of bodies . and in another place you have these words , the primary ideas we have peculiar to bodies as contradistinguished to spirit , are the cohesion of solid and consequently separable parts , and a power of communicating motion by impulse . these you think are the original ideas proper and peculiar to body , for figure is but the consequence of finite extension . here we have the idea of body laid down by your self as contradistinguished to spirit . therefore by your own confession we may perceive the disagreement of these two ideas of body and spirit , and consequently may certainly know their distinction from each other by their inseparable properties . but if it be possible for matter to think , then these ideas must be confounded : yet you distinguish the ideas of a material and immaterial substance in these words , putting together the ideas of thinking and willing , and the power of motion or rest added to substance , we have the idea of a spirit , and putting together the ideas of solid coherent parts , a power of being moved , joyned with substance , we have the idea of matter . the one is as clear and distinct an idea as the other ; the idea of thinking and moving a body being as clear and distinct ideas , as the ideas of extension , solidity and being moved . can any thing now be plainer than the disagreement of these two ideas , by the several properties which belong to them ? but if after all this matter may think , what becomes of these clear and distinct ideas ? and yet you have th●se words , thus by putting together the ideas of thinking . perceiving , liberty and power of moving themselves and other things , we have as clear a perception and notion of immaterial substances as we have of material . here it is plain , that you make thinking and perceiving to be part of the complex idea of an immaterial substance . how is this possible , if a material substance be capable of thinking as well as an immaterial ? either therefore you must renounce your own doctrine of certainty by ideas , or you must conclude , that matter cannot think . . but i urge this yet further from your notion of liberty and necessity . liberty , you say , is the idea of a power in any agent to do or forbear any action , according to the determination or thought of the mind , whereby either of them is preferred to the other . so that liberty cannot be , where there is no thought , no volition , no wish . and again , agents that have no thought , no volition at all are necessary agents . but you make a power of thinking and liberty to be parts of the complex idea of an immaterial substance , in the words before cited . but what liberty can you conceive in mere matter ? for you grant , that bodies can operate upon one another only by impulse and motion ; that the primary qualities of bodies which are inseparable from it , are extension , solidity , figure and mobility from any body . now how can the idea of liberty agree with these simple ideas of body ? to be moved only by impulse from another body ; and from the free determination of our own thoughts ; are two ideas as disagreeing with each other , as we can well imagine . but if matter may think , it may have liberty too , because you join these together ; but if it be uncapable of liberty which goes along with thinking , how can you imagine it should be capable of thinking ? i argue , from your notion of personal indentity , which you place in self consciousness . for you tell us , that a person is a thinking intelligent being that has reason and reflection ; and can consider it self , as it self , the same thinking thing in different times and places ; which it does only by that consciousness , which is inseparable from thinking , and seems to you essential to it . from whence it follows , that if there can be no self-consciousness in matter , then it cannot think , because it wants that which you say is essential to it . it being impossible , for any one to perceive , but he must perceive , that he doth perceive . but what is there like self-consciousness in matter ? or how is it possible to apprehend that meer body should perceive that it doth perceive ? for bodies , you say , operate only by impulse and motion ; i. e. one body upon another . but how can a body operate upon it self without motion ? those you call the secondary qualities of bodies , are only you say , the effect of the powers in some bodies upon others endued with sense and perception . so that the effects of these powers in bodies , or of the primary qualities of bulk , site , figure , motion , &c. is not upon themselves but upon other bodies , either by changing those primary qualities in them by different site , figure , motion , &c. or producing those effects in us , or which we call sensible qualities . but either of these ways there is no possibility for matter to operate upon it self in a way of self-consciousness . if then every intelligent thinking being have this so inseparably belonging to it , that you say , it is impossible , for any one to perceive , without perceiving that he doth perceive ; and it be impossible from the idea of matter to make out that a meer body can perceive that it doth perceive , i think it is more than probable in the way of ideas that matter cannot think . . i argue , from the power of abstracting which you make proper to a thinking substance . this is done , say you , by considering ideas in the mind as separate from the circumstances of time and place . and this power of abstracting , you add , puts a perfect distinction between man and brutes ; and is an excellency which the faculties of brutes do by no means attain to . you tell me , that you did not say the chief excellency of mankind lies chiefly , or any ways , in this that brutes cannot abstract ; for brutes not being able to do any thing , cannot be any excellency of mankind . but i hope it is the excellency of mankind , that they are able to do what the brutes cannot : and you say , this puts a perfect distinction between man and brutes ; and i had thought in comparing man and brutes that which put a perfect distinction was the chief excellency with respect to them . but let that be as it will ; the thing i insist upon is , the power of abstracting following that of thinking so closely that you utterly deny it to brutes ; but if it may be in the power of matter to think , how comes it to be so impossible for such organized bodies as the brutes have to inlarge their ideas by abstraction ? pomponatius thinks to avoid the argument from abstraction to prove the souls imateriality , by saying , that in the most abstract speculation the mind rests upon particulars ; vniversale in singulari speculatur . but this doth not reach the force of the argument ; which is not , whether the mind hath not an eye to particulars , when it forms universal notions ; but whether the power of forming such abstract ideas from particulars do not argue a power which meer matter can never attain to : and all that philosopher hath said , doth not amount to the least proof of it . . lastly , i argue from the reason you give , why god must be an immaterial substance . for these are the words in your letter . and the idea of an eternal , actual , knowing being is perceived to have a connection with the idea of immateriality , by the intervention of the idea of matter , and of its actual division , divisibility and want of perception , &c. here the want of perception is owned to be so essential to matter , that god is therefore concluded to be immaterial ; and this is drawn from the idea and essential properties of matter , and if it be so essential to it , that from thence you concluded god must be an immaterial substance , i think the same reason will hold , as to any thinking substance . because the argument is not drawn from any thing peculiar to the divine perfections , but from the general idea of matter . but after all , you tell me , that god being omnipotent , may give to a system of very subtil matter , sense and motion . your words before were , a power to perceive or think ; and about that , all our debate runs ; and here again you say , that the power of thinking joined to matter , makes it a spiritual substance . but as to your argument from god s omnipotency , i answer , that this comes to the same debate we had with the papists about the possibility of transubstantiation . for , they never imagin'd , that a body could be present after the manner of a spirit in an ordinary way , but that by god's omnipotent power it might be made so : but our answer to them was , that god doth not change the essential properties of things while the things themselves remain in their own nature : and that it was as repugnant for a body to be after the manner of a spirit , as for a body and spirit to be the same . the same we say in this case . we do not set bounds to god's omnipotency : for he may if he please , change a body into an immaterial substance ; but we say , that while he continues the essential properties of things , it is as impossible for matter to think , as for a body by transubstantiation to be present after the manner of a spirit ; and we are as certain of one as we are of the other . these things i thought necessary on this occasion to be cleared , because i look on a mistake herein to be of dangerous consequence as to the great ends of religion and morality : which , you think , may be secured although the soul be allowed to be a material substance ; but i am of a very different opinion : for if god doth not change the essential properties of things , their nature remaining : then either it is impossible for a material substance to think , or it must be asserted , that a power of thinking is within the essential properties of matter ; and so thinking will be such a mode of matter , as spinoza hath made it : and i am certain you do not think , he hath promoted the great ends of religion and morality . i shall now proceed to consider the arguments for proving a supream immaterial substance , which you freely allow to be so . and my design , as i said , was to shew , that the certainty of it is not placed upon any clear and distinct ideas , but upon the force of reason distinct from it . to this you answer , that knowledge and certainty in your opinion , lies in the preception of the agreement or disagreement of ideas , such as they are , and not always in having perfectly clear and distinct ideas . but those who offer at clear and distinct ideas , bid much fairer for certainty than you do ; and speak more agreeably to your original grounds of certainty . for your relative idea , which you here run to again is no certainty at all from the idea , but from the plain evidence of reason , that accidents cannot support themselves . i pass over all which i think i have sufficiently answered already ; as when you spend so many pages about my using the plural number when your words are only mentioned , &c. but i shall pass over nothing which may seem to an indifferent reader to require any farther consideration . whether you took this way of ideas from the modern philosopher mentioned by you , is not at all material ; but i intended no reflection upon you in it ( for that you mean by my commending you as a scholar of so great a master ) i never meant to take from you the honour of your own inventions ; and i do believe you when you say , that you wrote from your own thoughts , and the ideas you had there . but many things may seem new to one that converses only with his own thoughts , which really are not so ; as he may find when he looks into the thoughts of other men which appear in their books . and therefore , although i have a just esteem for the invention of such who can spin volumes barely out of their own thoughts ; yet i am apt to think they would oblige the world more , if after they have thought so much themselves , they would examine what thoughts others have had before them concerning the same things , that so , those may not be thought their own inventions , which are common to themselves and others . if a man should try all the magnetical experiments himself , and publish them as his own thoughts , he might take himself to be the inventor of them ; but he that examines and compares them with what gilbert and others have done before him , will not diminish the praise of his diligence , but may wish he had compared his thoughts with other mens , by which the world would receive greater advantage , altho' he lost the honour of being an original . the matter of certainty , you say , one cannot imploy too many thoughts about , viz. as to the finding the true grounds of it , or wherein it is placed . this i was led to consider , by our vnitarians placing it in clear and distinct ideas ; and therefore rejecting the mysteries of faith , because they could not have clear and distinct ideas of them . and one wrote purposely to shew that we were not to believe any mysteries in the gospel , because all our certainty depended upon the preception of the agreement or disagreement of those simple ideas which we have by sensation or reflection . now if these principles of certainty hold good as to all propositions we can have no certainty of faith , where we cannot perceive the connexion of the ideas contained in them . i own that you say , that faith is an assent to any proposition not made out by any deductions of reason , but upon the credit of the proposer . but this doth not clear the matter ; for , is faith an vnreasonable act ? is it not an assent to a proposition ? then , if all certainty in acts of reason be derived from the perceiving the agreement or disagreement of the ideas contained in it , either there can be no certainty of the reasonable act of faith , or the grounds of certainty must be laid some other way . but you say , where you want evidence of things there is yet ground enough for you to believe because god hath said it . which doth not yet remove the difficulty , from the true ground of certainty ; for say they , revelation is but a means of information ; and god discovers by that such propositions , which we could not have found out without revelation ; but where-ever propositions are offered to our vnderstandings , we must judge of them by our perception of the agreement and disagreement of the ideas contained in them . and faith doth not overthrow nature : if therefore the nature of certainty lies herein we cannot be certain without it . is it not enough for you to disown the consequence , but to shew that it doth not follow from your principles of certainty : but of this i have spoken already , and i love not repetitions . i only take notice , that you assert and hold to the same . i stick to my own plain way of certainty by ideas . and so do those who reject the mysteries of faith , because not agreeable to their ideas , and think they proceed upon your grounds . but you say , that according to my rules you know not where to place certainty ; for in the account i give of des cartes , i have these words concerning him . the first thing he found any certainty in , was his own existence , which he founded upon the perception of the acts of his mind . from hence he proceeded to enquire how he came by this certainty , and he resolved it into this , that he had a clear and distinct preception of it . and from hence he formed his general rule , that what he had a clear and distinct perception of was true . which in reason ought to go on farther , than where there is the like degree of evidence ; for the certainty was not grounded on the clearness of the perception , but on the plainness of the evidence . which is of that nature that the very doubting of it proves it , since it is impossible that any thing should doubt or question its own being that had it not . so that here it is not the clearness of the idea , but an immediate act of perception , which is the true ground of certainty . and this cannot extend to things without our selves , of which we can have no other perception , than what is caused by the impression of outward objects . but whether we are to judge according to those impressions doth not depend on the ideas themselves , but upon the exercise of our judgment and reason about them , which put the difference between true and false , and adequate and inadequate ideas , so that our certainty is not from the ideas themselves , but from the evidence of reason , that those ideas are true and just , and consequently , that we may build our certainty upon them . these i acknowledge to be my words ; and yet i see no reason why i may not stick to them . but you say , that i have placed the grounds of certainty of our own existence , sometimes in the plainness of evidence , in opposition to the clearness of perception ; sometimes in the immediate act of perception in opposition to the clearness of the idea ; and the certainty of other things without us in the evidence of reason , that these ideas are true and just in opposition to the ideas themselves ; so that such is your dulness you cannot by these rules tell , where to place certainty . but all these mists will easily be scattered , if you set your self a little to consider the design of my discourse ; which was not , to lay down rules of certainty , but to shew that the grounds of certainty from clear and distinct ideas were not well laid at first by des cartes himself . because he deduced his rule as to certainty of other things , from the evidence he had as to his own existence , which he had both from immediate perception and uncontroulable evidence , when even the doubting of it necessarily proved it . but the main question was , whether this would reach to other things without us : yes said he , the rule will hold , where-ever there are clear and distinct ideas . but i say the certainty doth not depend upon the idea but upon inward perception and the evidence founded upon it ; and we have not the same as to external objects : for we have no inward perception of them , nor any evidence that results from our own beings ; therefore the rule of certainty is carried beyond the true ground of it . i do not oppose in the former case the plainness of the evidence to the clearness of the perception ; but i suppose them both as to our own existence . i say indeed after , that it is not the clearness of the idea , but an immediate act of perception which is the true ground of certainty as to our own existence ; but there i take idea as des cartes did , for the clear and distinct perception of our minds , which might reach to other objects as well as our selves ; and such an idea i deny is the ground of certainty as to our own beings , which is founded on an immediate act of perception . and when they prove this as to such outward objects , which we have the ideas of , they may then carry the rule so far ; but i say the case is vastly different , as to a clear perception we have from our own acts , and that which we have as the impressions from outward objects ; in the former case we have such an evidence , as it is impossible to doubt of , but the very doubting must prove it : is it the same as to the ideas of external objects ? and as to these i do not deny , but we may come to a certainty : but i say , it is not from the ideas , which may be true or false , adequate or inadequate , and whether we may be certain of them or not , depends upon the exercise of our reason and judgment about them . so that i found the certainty of ideas upon reason , and not reason upon the certainty of ideas . and so i come more closely to consider the argument from the idea as to the proof of a supream immaterial substance . if our certainty did arise from clear and distinct ideas then it must hold , where we have a clear and distinct idea , as it is confessed we have concerning god. but this argument from the idea will not be allowed in this case ; it is denied by others plainly ; but i do not say , that it is denied by you , but that it is made a doubtfull thing . which comes to the same , in the point of certainty : and so the force of my argument doth by no means fail . but you say , that you intended by your words not to deny that the idea of a most perfect being doth prove a god , but to blame those who take it for the only proof , and endeavour to invalidate all others . for the belief of a god being the foundation of all religion and genuine morality you thought no arguments that are made use of to work the perswasion of a god into mens minds should be invalidated , which you grant is of very ill consequence . here you must give me leave to ask you , what you think of the universal consent of mankind , as to the being of god ? hath not this been made use of , as an argument not only by christians , but by the wisest and greatest men among the heathens ? and what then would you think of one who should go about to invalidate this argument ? and that by proving , that it hath been discover'd in these latter ages by navigation , that there are whole nations at the bay of soldania , in brasil , in the caribbe islands , and paraquaria , among whom there was found no notion of a god , and even the author of the essay of human vnderstanding hath done this . this cannot be thought a mere slip of the pen. for men do not quote authors so punctually then . but if it would not be thought stepping too much out of my way , i think i could prove that these instances are very ill chosen , because either they were taken from such as were not sufficiently acquainted with the people and language of the country ; or that their testimony is contradicted by those who have been longer among them and understood them better ; or lastly that the account given of them makes them not fit to be a standard for the sense of mankind , being a people so strangely bereft of common sense , that they can hardly be reckoned among mankind , as appears by the best accounts both of the cafres of soldania , and the caiguae of paraquaria . but this would be too much a digression in this place . i return therefore to the argument for proving the existence of god ; and you may plead for your self that your design was only to prove , that there is no innate idea of a god. but doth not this however take off from the force of an argument some have used to perswade men that there is a god ? i meddle not with innate ideas ; but have not some persons of note , in these matters , used the argument from the mark and character of god imprinted on the minds of men to prove his being ? and have you not set your self to disprove it ? but i leave this , and come to the argument from the idea of god , concerning which you say , that though the complex idea for which the word god ( whether containing in it the idea of necessary existence or no , for the case is the same ) will not prove the real existence of a being answering that idea , any more than any other idea in any ones mind will prove the real existence of any real being answering that idea , yet you conceive it does not hence follow , but that there may be other ideas by which the being of god may be proved . and afterwards you offer to shew that your proof of a deity is all grounded on ideas , i. e. from the ideas of our selves , as we are thinking beings . but you confess , that you think , that the argument from the idea will not hold , but however you will not give up the argument from ideas . against which i urged your own argument , that from the consideration of what we find in our selves and in our constitutions , our reason leads us to the knowledge of this certain and evident truth , that there is an eternal , most powerfull , and most knowing being . all which , i said , i did readily yield ; but we see plainly , the certainty is not placed in the idea , but in good and sound reason from the consideration of our selves and our constitutions . to which you reply , that you never thought the consideration of our selves and our constitutions excluded the consideration of the idea of being or of thinking , two of the ideas that make a part of the complex idea a man hath of himself . but is the reason you speak of , which leads us from thence to the knowledge of an eternal , most powerfull , and most knowing being , con●ained in the complex idea of a man or not ? a complex idea is made up of simple ideas , all simple ideas come in by sensation or reflection ; and upon comparing these simple ideas our certainty you say is sounded . what simple ideas then are there in man , upon which you ground the certainty of this proposition , that there is a god ? i grant you , that there is a certainty grounded upon our beings and the frame of our natures ; but this i still say , is a certainty of reason and not of ideas you say , you do not well understand what i mean by being not placed in the idea ; for you see no such opposition , but that ideas and sound reason may stand together ▪ i. e. in reason rightly managing those ideas so as to produce evidence by them . but what need all this great noise about ideas and certainty , true and real certainty by ideas : if after all , it comes only to this , that our ideas only represent to us such things , from whence we bring arguments to prove the truth of things ? but the world hath been strangely amuzed with ideas of late , and we have been told , that strange things might be done by the help of ideas , and yet these ideas at last come to be only common notions of things , which we must make use of in our reasoning . you say , in that chapter about the existence of god , you thought it most proper to express your self in the most usual and familiar way , by common words and expressions . i would you had done so quite through your book ; for then you had never given that occasion to the enemies of our faith to take up your new way of ideas , as an effectual battery ( as they imagin'd ) against the mysteries of the christian faith. but you might have enjoy'd the satisfaction of your ideas long enough , before i had taken notice of them , unless i had found them employ'd in doing mischief . but at last you tell me , that whether i will call it placing the certainty in the idea , or placing the certainty in reason ; or if i will say , it is not the idea that gives us the argument , but the argument , it is indifferent to you . and if you mean no more by your certainty from ideas , but a certainty from reason , i am not such an unreasonable man to disagree with you . the next argument for the existence of god stands thus , as i have summ'd it up . we find in our selves perception and knowledge . so that there is some knowing , intelligent being in the world. and there must have been a knowing being from eternity , or an unknowing ; for something must have been from eternity : but if an unknowing , then it is impossible there ever should have been any knowledge , it being as impossible for a thing without knowledge to produce it , as that a triangle should make three angles bigger than two right ones . to which i added , that allowing the argument to be good , yet it is not taken from the idea , but from principles of true reason , as that no man can doubt his own perception ; that every thing ( we see ) must have a cause ; that this cause must either have knowledge or not ; if it have , the point is gain'd ; if it hath not , nothing can produce nothing , and consequently a not knowing being cannot produce a knowing . in your answer to this , i must first take notice of your exception to that expression , allowing the argument to be good ; which you say , seems to imply that i thought the argument not to be good , which was very far from my meaning . for i had said before , that you brought very good arguments to prove the existence of a god in that chapter : and afterwards , that i was far from weakning the force of your arguments . and so i hope that exception is removed . you except not , you say , against my arguments or principles of reason : but you think still , this is an argument taken from ideas : if you will think so , i cannot help it . but you endeavour to shew , that the very principles you allow are founded upon ideas : as that a man cannot doubt of his own perception ; this , you say , is by perceiving the necessary agreement of the two ideas of perception and self-consciousness . but i rather think , it is from that self-evidence which attends the immediate perception of our own acts , which is so great , that as s. augustin observes , the academicks had nothing to say against that kind of certainty , but only against that which arose from things convey'd by our senses to our mind . the next principle that every thing must have a cause , must be understood of the matter treated of , i. e. the things we see and perceive in the world. you say , it is a true principle that every thing that hath a beginning must have a cause , because by contemplating our ideas we find that the idea of beginning is connected with the idea of some operation ; and that with the idea of something operating which we call a cause , and so the beginning to be , is perceived to agree with the idea of a cause , as is expressed in the proposition . is not here a great ado to make a thing plain by ideas , which was plainer without them ? for is not any man who understands the meaning of plain words satisfied that nothing can produce it self ? or , that what is not cannot make it self to be ? and so the evidence doth not depend on the agreement of the ideas of beginning , and operation , and cause ; but upon the repugnancy of the contrary supposition . as in that principle , that it is impossible for a thing to be and not to be at the same time : if you say , that this depends upon the disagreement of the ideas of not-being and being , it will be to little purpose for me to say any more about it . but there is one thing which deserves to be consider'd ; which is the connexion between the idea of an eternal , actual , knowing being with the idea of immateriality . this was the thing i look'd for . and by what means now doth this connexion between these two ideas appear ? by the help of an intermediate idea . what is that ? even the idea of matter . how so ? the idea of matter you tell us , implies its actual division , divisibility , and want of perception , &c. which are the arguments you use in this proof . are they so indeed ? and will not the same ideas prove our souls to be immaterial ? if want of perception be in the very idea of matter , how can matter be made capable of perceiving ? but i find you do not always attend to the agreement or disagreement of your own ideas . but of this before . i proceed to the last argument i produced to shew , that your proofs of the existence of god doth not depend upon ideas . and the substance of it i thus put together . if we suppose nothing to be first , matter can never begin to be ; is bare matter without motion be eternal , motion can never begin to be ; if matter and motion be supposed eternal , thought can never begin to be . for if matter could produce thought , then thought must be in the power of matter ; and if it be in matter as such , it must be the inseparable property of all matter , which is contrary to the sense and experience of mankind . if only some parts of matter have a power of thinking , how comes so great a difference in the properties of the same matter ? what disposition of matter is requir'd to thinking ? and from whence comes it ? of which no account can be given in reason . this i took to be the force of your argument , which i said , i was far from designing to weaken : only i observed that the certainty of it is not placed upon clear and distinct ideas , but upon reason distinct from it ; which was the thing i intended to prove . but you say , you do not see but the same proof may be placed upon clear and distinct ideas , and upon reason too . i hope this matter is made a little clearer to you ; having so fully shew'd to you before , that in the way of ideas you can come to no certainty about any substance , but by reason as it is distinct from the ideas ; i. e. as to material substances that your certainty is resolved into this principle of reason , that accidents cannot subsist without a substratum . as to spiritual substance in us , that depends on two things , . that thinking is only a mode , and must suppose a substance . . that matter cannot think , and therefore it must be an immaterial substance ; which i have proved from your own principles . as to a supreme immaterial substance , the evidence depends upon this reason , that matter and motion cannot produce thought ; and therefore an eternal thinking being must be immaterial . and that matter and motion cannot produce thought , is proved by this reason , that either it must be an inseparable property of matter ; or some account in reason must be given why some part of matter should think and not others . and doth not all this proceed upon reason as distinct from ideas ? and when i said , that the certainty of it , i. e. the argument is not placed on clear and distinct ideas , but upon the force of reason distinct from it , i meant the certainty from ideas , although it were not so clearly expressed as it might have been ; but here i observe you call for the plural number , which you are so offended with in other parts of your letter . the next thing i undertook to shew was , that we can have no clear and distinct idea of nature and person from sensation or reflection . here you spend many pages to shew that this doth not concern you . let it be so . but it concerns the matter i was upon ; which was to shew that we must have ideas of these things which we cannot come to by sensation or reflection . my words are , i grant that by sensation or reflection we come to know the powers and properties of things . but our reason is satisfied , that there must be something beyond these , because it is impossible that they should subsist by themselves . so that the nature of things properly belongs to our reason , and not to mere ideas . still you are at it , that you can find no opposition between ideas and reason : but ideas are the objects of the vnderstanding , and vnderstanding is one of the faculties imploy'd about them . no doubt of it . but you might easily see that by reason , i understood , principles of reason , allow'd by mankind . which i think are very different from ideas . but i perceive reason in this sense is a thing you have no idea of , or one as obscure as that of substance . but if you set aside these common principles of reason , your ideas will signifie very little ; and will like accidents want a substratum to support them . but your notion of nature and person deserves to be more throughly consider'd . therefore to proceed more clearly in a debate of this consequence with respect to the doctrine of the trinity ( what-ever you pretend to the contrary ) i shall first set down your notions of nature and person from your own words , and then enter upon the examination of them . as to nature , you tell me in short it is this , that it is a collection of several ideas combined into one complex abstract idea . which when they are found united in any individual existing , though joyned in that existence with several other ideas , that individual is truly said to have the nature of a man , or the nature of man to be in him : for as much as all these simple ideas are found united in him , which answer the complex abstract idea to which the specifick name man is given by any one ; which abstract specifick idea keeps the same , when he applies the specifick name standing for it , to distinct individuals , i. e. no body changes his idea of a man , when he says , peter is a man , from that idea which he makes the name man to stand for , when he makes john a man. as to person in the way of ideas , you tell us , that the word person in it self signifies nothing , and so no idea belonging to it , nothing can be said to be the true idea of it ; but when any language appropriates it to any idea , then that is the true idea of a person and so of nature . these are therefore the signs of two ideas they are put to stand for ; and by enumeration all the simple ideas that are contained in the complex idea that each of them is made to stand for ; we shall immediately see the whole difference that is between them . after which , you conclude , that you must content your self with this condemned way of ideas , and despair of ever attaining any knowledge by any other than that , or farther than that will lead you to it . but this must not hinder me from enquiring a little more strictly into these notions of nature and person , for if these hold , i do not see how it is possible to defend the doctrine of the trinity . for if these terms really signifie nothing in themselves , but are only abstract and complex ideas , which the common use of language hath appropriated to be the signs of two ideas ; then it is plain , that they are only notions of the mind , as all abstracted and complex ideas are ; and so one nature and three persons can be no more . we must therefore examine what your notion is , of abstracted and complex ideas , and how it can be applied to nature and person : and whether they are only signs of such ideas as people have agreed to signifie by them . to explain this , i must give an account , as well as i can , from your self , how these abstracted and complex ideas come to be formed in our minds , and what is implied in them . the vnderstanding , you say , seems to you not to have the least glimmering of any ideas which it hath not by sensation or reflection . these and their several modes and the compositions made out of them , we shall find contain our whole stock of ideas ; and that we have nothing in our minds which did not come in one of these two ways . from hence you consider the several sorts of ideas , some simple and some complex . the simple ideas are the materials of all our knowledge ; and when the vnderstanding is once stored with these simple ideas , it has the power to repeat , compare and unite them , even to an almost infinite variety , and so can make at pleasure new complex ideas : but no understanding can make one new simple idea , not taken in by the ways before mention'd , nor can it destroy those that are there . after you have given an account of the simple ideas both ways , you come to the faculty of discerning in our minds , and there you reckon up , distinguishing ideas , comparing , compounding and abstracting . the reason of abstraction , you say , is to have one general name for many particulars , or else names would be endless . which abstraction is performed by separating the ideas of particular objects from the circumstances of real existence , as time , place , &c. complex ideas are those simple ideas which the mind unites as one idea . but still it is confin'd to those simple ideas which it received by sensation or reflection , which are the ultimate materials of all its compositions . of these you reckon , modes , substances and relations . the ideas of substances are such combinations of simple ideas , as are taken to represent particular things subsisting by themselves . and these are of two sorts , one of single substances as they exist separately , as of a man , &c. the other of several of these put together as an army of men. in your chapter of complex ideas of substances ▪ you affirm the ideas of particular substances to be made by a combination of simple ideas : and again , that it is by such combination of simple ideas as co-exist in some unknown cause of their vnion . that the complex ideas we have of god and separate spirits are made up of the simple ideas we have by reflection ; by inlarging the ideas we find in our selves . in your d book you consider general terms . and the reason of them , you say is because it is beyond the power of human capacity to frame and retain distinct ideas of all particulars . and these are made by way of abstraction from circumstances of time and place . after which you tell us , that general natures are nothing but abstract ideas ; and the whole mystery of genera and species , which make such a noise in the schools , is nothing else but abstract ideas with names annexed to them . from whence , you say , it is plain , that general and vniversal , belong not to the real existence of things , but are the inventions and creatures of the vnderstanding ; made by it for its own use and concern only signs whether words or ideas . and the abstract idea and the essence of the species or genus of the same thing : and every distinct , abstract idea is a distinct essence . but then you distinguish the real and nominal essence . the former is the real , internal constitution of particular things ; and the nominal is the abstract idea . but there is so near a connexion between them that the name cannot be attributed to any particular being , but what has this essence , whereby it answers that abstract idea , whereof that name is the sign . these things you repeat and inlarge upon in several other places , but this i think is the substance of what you say upon this matter : for i would not willingly mistake or mis-represent your meaning . the question now between us comes to this , whether the common nature or essence of things lies only in an abstract idea , or a general name , and the real essence consists only in particular beings from which that name is abstracted ? the question is not , whether in forming the notion of common nature , the mind doth not abstract from the circumstances of particular beings ? but it is whether there be not an antecedent foundation in the nature of things upon which we form this abstract idea ? for it there be , then it cannot be called an universal name only : or a meer sign of an idea , which we have formed from putting many simple ideas together , which name belongs to all of such a sort , as have those simple ideas united together . i know not how it comes to pass , that a man spinning books out of his own thoughts should hit so luckily upon the thoughts of another man : i do not mean now , about clear and distinct ideas , but about this point of universal names . for mr. hobbs in his chapter of speech , tell us , that names were to serve for marks or notes of remembrance , and therefore were called signs . of these names , some are proper and singular to one thing , as peter , john , this man , this tree ; some are common to many things , as man , horse , tree , in respect of all which it is called an vniversal , there being nothing in the world vniversal but names ; for the things nam'd , are every one of them individual and singular . one universal name is imposed on many things , for their similitude in some quality or other accident ; and whereas a proper name bringeth to mind one thing only vniversals recall any one of those many . and of vniversals some are of more , or less extent , the larger comprehending the less large , and some of equal extent , &c. this is enough to let you see that these notions are not so peculiar but that another person , from his own thoughts too , had said much the same things . but whoever said or thought them first , we must examine how reasonable these thoughts are . i know no body that thinks now-a-days , that vniversals exist any where by themselves ; but i do think , that there is a difference to be made between that and making them meer names , or signs of ideas . i. and the reasons i go upon are these . in the first place , we are agreed , that there is a supream immaterial most perfect being ; whose essential attributes do not depend upon our arbitrary ideas ; nor any names or signs of honour we give him , nor upon the meer inlarging the ideas of our own perfections ; or such as we account to be so in our selves : for we attribute those to god which we are not capable of , as eternity or necessary existence , immutability , &c. herein , we take up no complex ideas from several individuals ; but we form a true idea of a divine essence , from such attributes as are essential to an infinitely perfect being , which being infinite is thereby , incomprehensible by us . and so you own , that the great god of whom and from whom are all things is incomprehensibly infinite . and that god is infinitely beyond the reach of our narrow capacities . ii. in the next place , we look on this supream being , as the wise creator of all things , who hath ordered the several sorts and ranks of beings in the world according to his own eternal wisdom ; and hath given them all such properties as himself thought fit , whereby they are really and essentially distinguished from one another ; as appears by mankind , and brutes , and plants . and no man that ever imploys his own thoughts can think , that these are distinguished from each other , only by an act of our minds . iii. among these it is evident , that there are some things , wherein they agree ; and some wherein they differ . they all agree in being real , created beings , and having a sort of life belonging to them . but they differ , that some have sense , which others have not ; and some have reason and understanding which others want . and all this , is so plain and evident , that one might question , whether those had understanding or not , who could think the difference of these from each others was not in their natures , but only depended on the several names that we call them by . iv. among the individuals of the same kind , there is an agreement in the same essential properties ; as all men in being rational creatures ; and there is a real difference from each other in the several accidents that belong to them ; as to time , place , qualities , relations , &c. and no man in his senses can call this in question . for his most plain and simple ideas will inform him of it . v. the question now is , whether that wherein they do all agree , be a meer vniversal name and abstract idea or not . it is certain , that what god created is no meer name or idea : it is certain , that god created not only individuals but the several kinds , with the differences , which they have from each other ; it is certain , that these differences do not lie in meer names or ideas : how comes it then not to be certain that there is a real common essence or nature in the individuals of the same kind ? but it comes not to us in the way of ideas . if it be so , the way of ideas and reason are two different ways ; and i shall never forsake one for the other , unless i could see better reason for it ; and even then i should not ; but adhere to reason still . but how doth it appear by reason , that nature is any thing else but a collection of several ideas combined into one complex abstract idea . that will be done by considering , . what these ideas are , which are so collected into a complex idea ; which is called nature . . what that essence is which is implied in this idea ; whether it be a real or only a nominal essence . . what these ideas are , of which this complex idea of nature consists ; and they are said to be , the simple ideas of particular substances united together , without the circumstances of time and place . but those simple ideas may be considered two ways . . with respect to the qualities of things , and these ideas are said to be true and adequate ; but they go no farther than the qualities ; which reaches only to that sense of nature , as it is taken for properties . . with respect to the subject of them , which is the nature or substance that supports them , and of this you confess we have only imperfect and inadequate ideas . as they are true and adequate ; and so they are not the true representations of things without us , but of the effects of such powers in them as produce impressions in us ; which are those you call secondary qualities . and in that sense i take your words . and of these i said , that we can understand nothing really by them but the effects they have upon us ; i. e. the powers and not the ideas . the ideas are the impressions on our minds ; and by these we can understand nothing but the effects which the powers in outward objects have upon us , and consequently not the nature of them . this i take to be plain sense . to this you answer two things ; . that we certainly know to distinguish things by ideas , supposing them nothing but effects produced in us by these powers , as if they were representations . . that we have certainly as much pleasure and delight by those ideas , one way as the other . granting all this to be true , what is it to the complex idea of nature , which arises from these simple ideas ? nature is a collection of several ideas combined into one complex abstract idea . but the simple ideas acquaint us not with the nature of the objects , but only with the powers which are in them ; by the help of bulk , size , figure and motion ; which you call the primary qualities . now these , you say , are really in the things themselves ; whether the senses perceive them or not ; and the ideas of these are the true resemblances of what exists in the objects ; i. e. that by the impressions we find in our selves , we are certain that there are bodies of a determinate bulk , size , figure and motion . and this is all , we can by these simple ideas come to , as the nature of corporeal substances . but suppose one should ask how we can understand , the nature of these operations of the primary qualities in producing the secondary ; we are soon answered , that there is no conceivable connexion between them and that reason cannot shew how bodies by their bulk , figure and motion should produce in the mind , the ideas of blue , yellow , &c. and so we are extremely helped by these simple ideas in understanding the nature of any particular substance . for the sensible qualities in us are only the effects of certain powers in the objects , caused by their bulk , size , figure and motion ; but if we ask how they are produced , we are plainly told , that our reason by these simple ideas can reach to no knowledge of it . and so we are left in as much ignorance , as ever as to the manner how things without us produce ideas in us . but say you , by these simple ideas , we can as certainly distinguish the beings wherein those powers are , and receive as certain advantages from them , as if those simple ideas were resemblances . as to advantages from them , that is quite out of our enquiry ; which is concerning the idea of nature ? as it is a complexion of simple ideas ; and all that it amounts to is , that by these simple ideas , we understand the distinct powers in several bodies to produce impressions in our minds ; and by the secondary qualities we find in our selves , we are certain of the primary qualities in bodies , from their different bulk , size , figure and motion . but still we have nothing but an idea of qualities , which goes no farther than the essential properties ; but the idea of nature goes farther and implies that being wherein those qualities are ; and that i said , which is the subject of powers and properties is the nature or substance of it ; which in this respect is the same . have we any adequate idea of this ? to this you say : . that all ideas of substances , which are referr'd to real essences are in that respect inadequate . this is what your self own to be your sense ; and is as much as i desire . for , i pray consider what a fine abstract complex idea you have given us of nature . our adequate ideas go no farther than qualities , and if we enquire into the real essence , or substance that supports them , we are told that they are inadequate ; and consequently we can have no true notion or idea at all of it . but you say farther , that you do not affirm , that abstract ideas are only general names . for you assert a real essence in things ; the internal unknown constitution is the real essence ; and the abstract idea is the nominal essence . the former you tell me , you do readily own ; viz. that essence which is in particular substances ; but the question before us is , whether that which is in more individuals than one , be a real or only a nominal essence . . and this is that , which we are next to examine . to clear this , i put the instance of the sun , where an essence was said by you to be in one individual ; and yet more suns might agree in it . in this one sun there is a real essence , and not a meer nominal and abstracted essence : upon which i asked , if there were more suns , would not each of them , have the real essence of the sun ? for what is it makes the second sun , to be a true sun , but having the same real essence with the first ? if it were but a nominal essence , then the second would have nothing but the name . here i must examine your answer , as far as i can understand it : for here indeed you may complain of the want of clear and distinct ideas ; but i will do what i can to explain that which i conceive to be your sense . you say , this doth not at all concern the real , but the nominal essence . how is this possible ? is there not the real essence of the sun in that individual , we call the sun ? but i put the case , that there were a multiplication of individuals ; and there were more suns : would not each of these have the real essence of the sun ? if it were only a nominal essence , the rest would have only the name . but you say , you did not mean the real essence of the sun was in that individual . how could you mean otherwise , when you acknowledge the real essence to be in particular substances ? and is not the sun a particular substance ? but the idea of it being a complex and abstracted idea , could not be the real essence . i answer , that the essence of the sun being communicated to another is a real essence ; or else , the second is but the name and nothing else . you tell me , that you say expressly , that our distinguishing substances into species by names , is not at all founded on their real essences . and i think it is clear to any one that understands things , and not meer ideas ; that another true sun must have the real essence of a sun. you ask , what i mean by a true sun. i answer , that which hath the essence of a sun ; and that the name cannot be truly applied to that which hath it not . yes , say you , it may to any thing , which hath united in it that combination of sensible qualities , by which any thing else that is called sun is distinguished from other substances , i. e. by the nominal essence . so that now the abstract complex idea is owned to be nothing but a combination of qualities in one idea . but i must still ask , what becomes of this combination of qualities in the second sun , if there be not a real essence to support them ? you grant it when the second sun comes to exist . and if it does not exist , how can it be the second sun ? should it be true , say you , that the real essence of the sun were in any of the fixed stars , yet it could not be called by us the sun , whilst it answers not our complex idea , or nominal essence of a sun. if the real essence of a sun be in a fixed star , it is really a sun , whether you call it so or not ; as a laplander is as really a man whatever you call him , if he hath the essence of a man. and it is strange to me to find any man dispute such evident things . and so i come to the instance of the individuals among men. i said , that there must be a real essence in every individual of the same kind . peter , iames and iohn are all true and real men ; not by attributing a general name to them ; but because the true and real essence of a man is in every one of them . but you say , i first suppose them to be men : no otherwise than as they are individuals of the same kind . your weweena , cuchepy and cousheda i have nothing to say to , they may be drills for any thing i know ; but peter , iames and iohn are men of our own country , and we know them to be several individuals of the race of mankind : and what is it makes them men , but that the true and real essence of a man is in every one of them ? yes , say you , if making be taken for the efficient cause . whoever dreamt of a specifick essence being the efficient cause ? but i said , that it was the true and real essence of a man , which made every individual a true and real man ; of which i said we are as certain , as that we are men. that , say you , is only by our senses finding those properties , which answer the abstract , complex idea , which is in our minds of the specifick idea to which we have annexed the specifick name man. i leave to you the honour of this scholastick language , which is always most proper when there is nothing under it . i love to speak plain sense if i can , and so as to be understood by every one that is acquainted with these matters : but these specifick names and abstract and complex ideas , i think tend to confound mens apprehensions ; who can never think otherwise , but that every man is said to be a true real man ; not for any specifick name , but because his properties shew him to be endued with the true real essence of a man. i said , that the general idea is not made from the simple ideas , but by meer act of the mind abstracting from circumstances , but from reason and consideration of things . you reply , that you thought reason and consideration had been meer acts of the mind , when any thing was done by them . i hope the ideas you have of the acts of your own mind , are clearer than those you have of other mens . for it is plain , i opposed your general and abstract idea by a meer act of the mind , to a rational inference from the nature and properties of things . for i added ; for , when i see so many individuals , that have the same powers and properties , we thence inferr , there must be something common to all , which makes them of one kind ; and if the difference of kinds be real , that which makes them of one kind and not of another , must not be a nominal but a real essence . is there now no difference between these two acts of the mind , viz. abstraction and ratiocination . and you grant , that the inference is true . but you say , it doth not follow , that the general or specifick idea is not made by the meer act of the mind . where do i deny that abstraction is made by an act of the mind ? but that is not the question ; but whether the notion of essence in individuals of the same kind , be a meer act of the mind by abstraction , or have a real foundation in the nature of things ? i. e. whether it be a real or a nominal essence . but you say , there may be objections to the name of nominal essence . my objection is not to the name , but to the thing you understand by it , viz. that there is nothing beyond individuals but names , which utterly overthrows the difference of nature and person . for if there be nothing really , but an individuated essence , then it must follow , that there can be no difference of hypostases in the same nature : for nature individuated must take in the hypostasis ; and nature being taken as common is affirmed by you to be nothing but an abstract and complex idea , and a mere nominal essence . you say , that we cannot know the differences of things by their real essences . and what then ? do i ever deny , that the difference of kinds is to be understood from the different properties ? but we are not upon our knowledge of the difference of species , but upon the real and nominal essence . and i shew'd that the real essence doth not depend upon complex ideas ; because if men mistake never so much in the combination of ideas , yet the same essence remains ; as i instanced in the essence of a man , a horse and a tree . true , you say , our thoughts or ideas cannot alter the real constitutions of things that exist ; but the change of ideas can and does alter the signification of their names , and thereby alter the kinds , which by these names we rank and sort them into . but this doth by no means reach the point , which is not concerning our sorting of things , which is by names , but god's sorting them , when he made them of different kinds . for so i said , that the essences remain always the same , because they do not depend on the ideas of men , but on the will of the creator , who hath made several sorts of beings . all the answer you give is this , that the real constitution or essence of particular things existing , do not depend on the ideas of men , but on the will of the creator , but their being ranked into sorts , under such and such names , does depend and wholly depend upon the ideas of men. but my argument did not proceed upon particular things existing , but upon the several kinds of god's making , and is it possible for you to think that the kinds are not of his making , but that men only by their ideas make the several sorts ? if so , i have very little hopes to remove you from your ideas ; but i am bound to do what in me lies to hinder such notions from overthrowing the mysteries of our faith. and it is a great satisfaction to me to find , that these notions of ideas , as far as they tend that way , have so very little foundation in reason , or rather are so manifestly repugnant to them . before i conclude my self , i must take notice of your conclusion , viz. that you must content your self with this condemned way of ideas , and despair of ever attaining any knowledge by any other than that , or farther than that will lead me to it . which is in effect to say , that you see no way to avoid scepticism but this : but my great prejudice against it is , that it leads to scepticism , or at least , that i could find no way to attain to certainty in it upon your own grounds . for ( . ) you say , that knowledge to you seems to be nothing , but the perception of the connexion and agreement or disagreement , and repugnancy of any of our ideas . in this alone it consists . whence it unavoidably follows , that where we can have no ideas , we can have no knowledge . but you go about to prove , that there are many more beings in the world , of which we have no ideas , than those of which we have any ; and that one holds no proportion to the other . so that we are excluded from any possibility of attaining to knowledge , as to the far greatest part of the universe for want of ideas ; and yet you say , that he that will consider the infinite power , wisdom and goodness of the creator of all things , will find reason to think it was not all laid out upon so inconsiderable , mean and impotent a creature , as he will find man to be , who in all probability is one of the lowest of all intellectual beings . and not long after , you say , that the intellectual world is a greater certainly and more beautifull world , than the material . but whence comes this certainty , where there can be no ideas ? is a general reason sufficient without particular ideas ? then why not in other cases as well ? . suppose we have no ideas of the intellectual world , yet surely we may have as to the visible world : no , you say , that although we have ideas of bulk , figure and motion in general ; yet not knowing what is the particular bulk , figure , and motion of the greatest part of the bodies of the vniverse , we are ignorant of the several powers , efficacies and ways of operation , whereby the effects we daily see are produced . these are hid from us in some things by being too remote , in others by being two minute . so that you confess , we can attain to no science , either as to bodies or spirits . and what a narrow compass must our knowledge then be confined to ? you confess , we have no ideas of the mechanical assertions of the minute particles of bodies ; and this hinders our certain knowledge of universal truths concerning natural bodies ; and our reason carries us herein very little beyond particular matter of fact. certainty and demonstration we must not in these things pretend to . so that all certainty is given up in the way of knowledge , both as to the visible and invisible world , or at least , the greatest part of them . . but still it is to be hoped , that where we have ideas , we may come to a certainty in discerning the connexion between them . no , you say , another cause of our ignorance is , the want of a discoverable connexion between those ideas we have . what! are we at a loss here too , and yet all our certainty depend no the perceiving the agreement and disagreement of ideas ? yes , you confess , that the mechanical affections of bodies having no affinity at all with the ideas they produce in us , we can have no distinct knowledge of such operations beyond experience . and the operations of our minds on our bodies is as unconceivable . . but by the help of intermediate ideas , may we not come to find out the certain agreement or disagreement of ideas , so there be due application of the mind to it ? yes , say you , this may be done , and this is that we call reasoning , and those intervening ideas are called proofs : and where the agreement or disagreement is clearly and plainly perceived , it is called demonstration . but how if this way of demonstration be made impossible ? what benefit can we have of it in the way of certainty : each step , you tell us , that reason makes in demonstrative knowledge must have intuitive evidence ; for else , you say , that intermediate idea would need a proof . and for want of this , men often embrace falshoods for demonstrations . but if there be no way of coming to demonstration but this , i doubt we must be content without it . . you give no reasonable satisfaction in the way of ideas , as to the plainest evidence of sense concerning the existence of external objects . for there is no intuition of the mind , nor demonstration in this case ; and all the evidence in your way must be from the ideas in our minds , which are supposed to arise from external objects ; but the question is , how from these ideas within our selves , we can prove the certain existence of objects without our selves . because men may have such ideas in their minds by the power of imagination , when there are no objects to produce them ? you say , a man is invincibly conscious to himself of a different perception , in seeing the sun in the day , and remembring it in the night , and tasting of wormwood and smelling of a rose , and thinking of it afterwards . but this doth not clear the main difficulty , which is , how from the idea of the tast of wormwood or smell of a rose i can prove the actual being of such things without me , since you grant , that there is no conceivable connexion in reason , between the powers in the objects and the ideas in us : and if there be not , how can we be certain in the way of ideas ? i do not speak , as to pain or pleasure , but as to the evidence from the ideas in our selves . for the most that you say is , that a man may perceive a very manifest difference between dreaming of being in a fire , and being actually in it , because of the pleasure or pain that follows the application of certain objects ; which certainty is as great as our happiness or misery , beyond which we have no concernment to know or to be . but the present difficulty is not merely about the difference between sleeping and waking ; and i grant you , that a man's being sensible of fire touching him , will effectually convince him that he is not in a dream : but the point before us is , when we are sensible we are awake , what it is in the way of ideas , which can satisfie us of the real existence of external objects . for you confess , that the having the idea of any thing in our mind , no more proves the existence of that thing , than the picture of that man evidences his being in the world , or the visions of a dream make a true history . how then can we come to any certainty in the way of ideas ? the account you give is this , that the actual receiving ideas from without , makes us know that something doth exist at that time without us , which causes that idea within us . which is in other terms to remove the certainty from the idea to the mere act of sensation : but all our dispute hath been not about the certainty either of sense or reason ; ( which i freely yield to ) but about a particular way of certainty by the agreement or disagreement of ideas ; and of this i shew that you give no satisfactory account , as to the existence of the plainest objects of sense . for you say , the certainty lies in perceiving the connexion between ideas ; and here you grant , that reason cannot perceive the connexion between the objects and the ideas , how then should we possibly attain any certainty in the way of ideas ? so that your self gives up the way of certainty by ideas . i might easily pursue this matter farther ; but i think this is sufficient to let you see , you have no such cause to be so well contented with this condemned way of ideas , as you are pleased to call it . and now to conclude , i am very far from being an enemy to any free enquiries into the nature and reasons of things , and would be glad to find any real discoveries that way . and i can easily bear the putting of philosophical notions into a modern and fashionable dress . let men express their minds by ideas if they please ; and take pleasure in sorting and comparing and connecting of them ; i am not forward to condemn them ; for every age must have its new modes , and it is very well if truth and reason be received in any garb. i was therefore far enough from condemning your way of ideas , till i found it made the only ground of certainty , and made use of to overthrow the mysteries of our faith , as i told you in the beginning . this was it which made me look more narrowly into it at first , and now to give you this trouble of an answer to your letter . i hope that in the managing this debate , i have not either transgressed the rules of civility , or mistaken your meaning , both which i have endeavourd to avoid . and i return you thanks for the civilities you have expressed to me through your letter ; and i do assure you , that it is out of no dis-respect , or the least ill will to you , that i have again consider'd this matter , but because i am farther convinced , that as you have stated your notion of ideas , it may be of dangerous consequence as to that article of christian faith , which i endeavour'd to defend . i am no lover of controversies , however i have been often engaged in them ; but i have that satisfaction in my mind , that my design was to promote that , which upon my best enquiries , i thought to be truth ; and by such means as were most sutable to the pursuit of it , without any bitterness against those i opposed . but of all truth , i am convinced , that it is fittest for me to employ the remainder of my days in what concerns the vindication of our holy religion contained in the scriptures , which gives us the only sure grounds to hope for a blessed immortality . and in the defence and practice of that , i hope , by the grace of god both to live and die . i am , sir , your real friend , and humble servant , edw. wigorn. worcester , march . . postscript . i had no thoughts of adding a postscript to my answer , as you had done to your letter ; but before the sheets were wrought off , there was sent to me a new socinian pamphlet , wherein there are reflections ( and little more ) on my late treatise in vindication of the trinity . the reason i had to joyn my short animadversions on that to these papers , was the advantages he takes from the abstracted notion of nature against the doctrine of the trinity , which was the thing i told you , i apprehended to be of dangerous consequence in it . but before i come to that , i cannot but take notice of their very different way of writing from yours , which is grave and civil , but theirs is trifling , and too scurrilous in matters of religion , for which i had so justly rebuked them before , but it seems to very little purpose : which makes me apt to think , their greatest hopes still are in such readers , who love to see matters of religion ridiculed ; and the persons who are concerned to defend them exposed to scorn and contempt . this was that i told them , which gave such a relish to their late pamphlets , as though nothing would go down with such vitiated palats , that had not a mixture of this assa soetida with it . but because in the conclusion of his pamphlet , he charges me as well as others , with using them unjustly as well as roughly . i shall give a tast of this man's decent manner of writing . the first thing he insists upon against me , is , that i openly profess my method , that i will prove first , then secondly , then thirdly , then fourthly and fifthly . and what harm is there in using the plainest method in a nice and intricate subject ? should i go about to justifie this , by the rules of the ancient and best masters of writing in arguments of such a nature ? that would be shewing too much regard to such pitifull cavilling . but methinks these men should not object this method against us , of first , secondly and thirdly , who had before charged us with brutal and inexcusable ignorance in counting or numbring . but he goes on . and now beloved first of the first . have i any words like these ? no matter for that . but this serves well enough for the farce ; when the design is to ridicule the form and way of modern sermons ; which he knew was an acceptable subject to his men of wit , as he calls them . if they be really so , they cannot but despise such fooling in serious matters . and our modern sermons are such , both as to the structure and reason of them , as will bear the censures of men of judgment , ( as well it may be , as of any age ) but his men of wit , who love religion in no dress , will always have something or other in sermons to find fault with . and our author was hard put to it to bring in this smart reflection on modern sermons to please his friends , which was very remote from a debate about the trinity . the next thing is , ( for i must not say secondly ) that my way of writing is too obscure ; and that he could not take my meaning under two or three readings . which to please his men of wit , he facetiously expresses after this manner ; and when i have strained my iaws and hazarded my teeth to break the shell , most commonly it proves nothing but a shell , that i am tempted to renounce nuts for ever . and i think he will do wisely in it . i am certain , i was so far from affecting obscurity , that i endeavoured to put the darkest points into as good a light , as i could ; and i am afraid he sometimes shut his eyes , that he might complain of the darkness of the room . i dare not go so far as thirdly ; and therefore come to consider the main parts of his pretence to answer my book . as to the contents of my book , he saith . i shew , that neither antiquity , nor reason , nor scripture is at all for them , they are all against them . wherein he is very much in the right . and i shall now examine what he hath said , to take off any part of the charge . he begins with antiquity , and very fairly takes it for granted , that for years , the doctrine of the unitarians was the true doctrine : but he observes , that i make the doctrine of the trinity to have been a part of the cabala or oral tradition among the iews ; upon which he cries out , where is conscience , or is religion nothing but a name ? why , what 's the matter ? how comes conscience and religion to be so deeply concerned , whether the jews had any anticipation of the trinity among them ? but he saith , i do not believe the iewish cabala , no more than the alchoran , and yet i produce the authority of it : and he adds , that it was a fiction of the pharisees ; and that it is a prevarication in me to mention it as the unwritten word of god. i am afraid his cracking of nuts hath put him into some disorder , and made him cry out , without any other cause but the pain of his teeth . where did i ever give the least cause to suspect my owning the iewish cabala , as the unwritten word of god ? all that i said was this . the socinians had said , that christ was called the word , because he was the bringer or messenger of god's word . to which i answer'd , that the jews were to understand it in the sense it was known among them : which was for a divine subsistence , as i proved from the chaldee paraphrast , and the testimonies of philo the alexandrian iew , who lived so near our saviour's time . here is not a word of the pharisaical cabala , which every one knows to have been about traditional customs , which they laid as much weight upon , as upon the law of god , if not more . but the chaldee paraphrast was in very great esteem , as giving the true sense of the scripture , and for that only i produced it . and what answer doth he give to the testimonies out of it ? he saith , they relate either to the law , or to the command of god to moses , or to the power of god. but i shew'd that rittangel , who managed the debate on this argument with a learned vnitarian , proved to his plain conviction , that these places could be understood of nothing but a divine subsistence . but he mightily triumphs , that the most pertinent place is false printed ; for it is set down , gen. . . and he tells us , there are but verses in that chapter ; but a man of common ingenuity would suspect an error in the press in such a case ; and if he had pleased to have look'd on gen. . . he might have have found verses , and the words in the . therefore , saith he , so much for chaldee and cabala , despised by all learned men , iews as well as christians ; and never used but when the people are to be gulled with noisy nothings . one would hardly think it possible such mean stuff as this should pass for an answer , among any that pretend to sense or knowledge . for how can he deny the sense of the chaldee paraphrast , when philo the alexandrian iew concurs in that interpretation , as is evident by multitudes of places in him ? did i not expresly mention his testimony as concurring with the other ? why not a word said to it ? did i not add the consent of eusebius concerning the jews owning the divinity of the messias , till they fell off from it in opposition to the christians ? and are these but noisy nothings to gull people with ? let what will become of the dispute between the pharisaical jews and the karaites ; those who know any thing of these matters , do know that i went upon other grounds ; viz. whether the israelites did receive from god an oral law , which they are bound to observe as much as the written law , and to interpret the written law , and the force of its obligation by it . and this i never mention'd or intended to plead for it . and as to the ways of cabalistical interpretations , i look on them as groundless and frivolous things ; but the thing i aimed at , was only this , there are certainly places of the old testament , which speak of the messias as the son of god ; thou art my son , &c. and call him lord , the lord said unto my lord. the question is , what the sense of these places was , and how they are to be applied to christ ? now if it appear , that the most ancient jews did understand them in such a manner , as to apply them to a second subsistence in the divinity , we have great reason to follow that sense , which is so agreeable to the new testament ; and about this we have no manner of reason to despise the sense of the ancient jews , and especially of the chaldee paraphrast , who asserts a second and a third subsistence in the divinity . and this he could not but find without any danger to his iaws , was the only thing i intended . the next thing in point of antiquity which he contests , is about the nazarenes : that name , i said , was at first common to all christians , as is plain from act. . . afterwards it was applied to the jewish christians at pella and decapolis ; and to such as admitted no gentiles to their communion , but kept to the ceremonies of the law ; and of these i said they might be all ebionites ; but i utterly denied it of such as were members of the catholick christian church , as it was made up of iews and gentiles . this distinction he calls a pure figment , but answers not one of the reasons i brought for it ; although i proved from uncontroulable evidence , that they made two different bodies , had different rules of faith ; and that the church of ierusalem did hold the divinity and pre-existence of our saviour . and is all this cabala too , and only to be used when people are to be gulled with noisy nothings ? i. e. with empty pleroma's , and silent thunder-claps . the alogians were theirs , for any thing i know in all respects ; and i will give them theodotion , and paulus samosatenus , and photinus . but i think not much to their comfort ; the two latter were most certainly condemned by the christian church ; and whether the former were a mere iewish proselyte , or an ebionite is not worth contending about ; since s. ierom makes him to translate the places about our saviour like a jew , and aquila like a christian ; which shews how mean an opinion he had of his sincerity . i proved the condemning paulus samosatenus while they were under the power of zenobia , to be a plain evidence of the sense of the christian church against his doctrine ; at a time when no interest could be supposed to sway them . to this he gives a twofold answer , ( . ) that be sure it is false , that they were then under the power of zenobia . but how can we be sure it is false , when i brought proof it was true , and he answers nothing at all to it ? but it seems , all is cabala and noisy nothings that stand in his way . ( . ) he saith , they were all hereticks . a very short answer . but how is this proved ? for a little proof looks well sometimes , and a man must not always say , be sure it is so . well , here is a plain proof ; they differ'd from the council of nice about homoousios . but i had before given a full answer to that , p. . to which he gives not the least reply , viz. that they took it in two different senses . as to lucian , i leave it to the readers judgment , if he compares what i have said , and what he answers together , and whether he thinks it probable that the arians should forge a creed under his name at antioch ; if he continued in the doctrine of paulus samosatenus , which was contrary to it . this is all , he saith , that seems considerable in point of antiquity ; and whether he hath said any thing really considerable about it , let the reader judge . come we now to the point of scripture , which is the main point in the case . for i had declared , p. . that our faith as to the trinity , is built upon that ; and that there are many places of scripture , of which no tolerable sense can be given without it . and therefore i examined the sense the vnitarians gave of the most remarkable places , and shew'd the weakness and inconsistency of it , and then in an entire chapter proved our doctrine from the form of baptism delivered by our saviour , as it was always understood in the christian church . this i think was a very plain and easie method of proving our doctrine . and what now saith our vnitarian to all this ? truely , i have met with few answers like it . in short , he saith , that for his part , he is enough perswaded without further arguing the matter , that i have spent my breath against a rock . this is just the popish way of answering by infallibility and super hanc petram . but in neither case can i see the least ground for such mighty confidence . alas for them ! they say , that if we write against their interpretations of scripture , they are not at leisure to wipe off every small soil that may happen to be scatter'd in their books . not at leisure ! whence have come all those swarms of pestilent books which have come abroad of late years among us , to spread their infectious doctrine over the nation ? and now are they not at leisure to defend them ? and at the same time have leisure enough to run into other matters , about which there may be more colour for cavilling . so that this cannot be the true reason , and i leave the reader to judge what it is . the last thing is the point of reason ; and here he finds leisure enough to expatiate . but i shall keep to that point , upon which he supposes the whole controversie to turn , which is , whether the difference between nature and person , which we observe in mankind , do so far hold with respect to the divine nature , that it is a contradiction to say , there are three persons and not three gods ? and there are several things i proposed , in order to the clearing of this matter , which i shall endeavour to lay down as distinctly as i can ; and i shall not be hector'd or banter'd out of that which i account the most proper method , although it happen to be too obscure for our men of wit to understand without hazard of their iaws . the principles or suppositions i lay down are these ; i. nature is one and indivisible in it self , whereever it is . ii. the more perfect any nature is , the more perfect must its unity be . iii. whatever is affirmed of a most perfect being , must be understood in a way agreeable to its perfection . iv. it is repugnant to the perfection of the divine nature , to be multiplied into such individuals as are among men ; because it argues such a dependence and separation , as is inconsistent with the most perfect unity . v. to suppose three distinct persons in one and the same indivisible divine nature , is not repugnant to the divine perfections ; if they be founded on such relative properties , which cannot be confounded with each other , and be in themselves agreeable to the divine nature . vi. whether there be three such distinct persons or not , is not to be drawn from our own imaginations , or similitudes in created beings , but only from the word of god , from whom alone the knowledge of it can be communicated to mankind . let us now see how he proves , that since there is no contradiction for three persons to be in one common human nature , it must be a contradiction to assert three persons in the same divine nature . he offers at no less than demonstrative reason , p. . c. . but i have always had the most cause to fear the men that pretend to infallibility , and demonstration . i pass over his mysterious boxes , as trifles fit only to entertain his men of wit , and come immediately to his demonstrative reason , is it be to be met with . it comes at last to no more than this , that human nature , and angelical nature , and camel nature have no existence but only in our conception ; and are only notions of our minds ; but the persons in the same rational being are not mere metaphysical persons or relative properties , but they are such as necessarily suppose distinct substances as well as distinct properties . but in the trinity , the nature is a really existing nature , 't is a spiritual substance , and endued with a great number of divine attributes , not an abstracted or mere notional imaginary nature ; and the divine persons are not distinct substances or real beings , but properties only in a real being and in an infinite substance . this is the force of the demonstration . but now if i can make it appear , that every nature is not only one and indivisible in it self , but endued with essential attributes and properties belonging to it as such , then it will be evident , that nature is not a mere abstracted notion of our minds , but something which really exists somewhere ; and then the foundation of this demonstrative reason is taken away . and i appeal to any persons that consider things , whether the human , angelical , and camel nature ( as he calls it ) do not really differ from each other , and have such essential properties belonging to them as cannot agree to any other nature ? for else it must be a mere notion and fiction of the mind , to make any real difference between them . but if human nature and camel nature do essentially differ from each other , then every nature hath its essential unity and properties which cannot belong to any other , and that without any act of our minds . and if every nature is really and essentially different from another , it must have an existence somewhere independent on our notions and conceptions . it may be said , that no such nature doth really exist by it self , but only in the several individuals . but that is not the present question , where or how it exists , but whether it depend only on our imaginations or the acts of our minds ; and if it doth so , then there can be no real and essential difference in the natures of men and beast , which i think none who have the understanding of a man can imagine . but really existing natures , he saith , are in such persons , as necessarily suppose distinct substances , as well as distinct properties ; and if they existed only in a common nature , as the humanity , and had not also distinct substances , they would never make distinct persons . i do allow , that in created and dependent beings , there must be distinct substances to make distinct persons ; but he ought to have given an account what that is which makes distinct persons ' necessarily to suppose distinct substances . for the nature is one and indivisible in them all ; or else every individual must make a new species , which is an absurdity i suppose he will not be fond of . if there be then one and the same nature in the individuals , whence comes the difference of substances to be so necessarily supposed ? if it be from diversity , dissimilitude , dependence and separate existence , as i asserted , then these reasons can hold only in created beings ; and where they cannot hold , as in the divine nature , why may there not be a distinction of persons founded on relative properties , without any distinction of substances , which is repugnant to the perfect unity of the godhead ? what demonstrative reason , nay , what probable argument hath he offer'd against this ? he takes notice p. . of what i had said about the distinction of personality and person ; and that personality is originally only a particular mode of subsistence ; and a person besides the relative property takes in the divine nature together with it . and what demonstration have we against this ? so far from it , that he falls to tristing again to keep his men of wit in good humour . so much for madam personality , now for sir person . is this a decent way of writing about these matters ; to begin with the talk of demonstrative reason , and to end with burlesquing , and turning them into ridicule ? if this be an agreeable entertainment for his men of wit , it shews that they deserve that character , as well as he doth that of a demonstrator . but this sportfull gentleman hath found something else to play with , viz. that my notion of three subsistences without three substances is really nothing but sabellianism . but i had already said so much for the clearing of this , both in the preface and the book it self , that i need not to add one word about it , unless he had suggested some new demonstrative reason to prove it . which he is far enough from . all that he saith , is , that they must be called fools as well as sabellius , if they asserted relative properties , or any properties that were in no essence . but the author of the discourse of real and nominal trinitarians , ( to whom he is no stranger ) had said that the sabellians held that the father , son and spirit are but only three names of god given to him in scripture by occasion of so many several dispensations towards the creature , and so he is but one subsisting person and three relative persons . if this be true , here are relative properties indeed relating to a divine essence : but how ? not as to any internal relations of father , son and holy ghost ; but as to external dispensations , which are another kind of relative properties . this is all that i can find in this last effort , that relates to my self : as to what concerns others , they are very able to defend themselves , and particularly as to dr. s. and dr. sh. i must still say i think them much his superiours as to wit and learning , ( for of them i spake without the least respect to my self , however he makes it a complement to my self and them , i know not for what reason , unless it be that i speak of those against whom they had written with insolence and scorn . ) but i hope they will shew themselves so much his superiours too in wisdom and discretion , as not to renew their quarrels upon his provocations , for he doth what in him lies to inflame them ; and he thought it , ( and i do not blame him for it ) the best service he could do to his sinking cause . worcester , april , . e. w. finis . errata . pag. . . an answer . p. . l. . for temerarian r. temerarious p. . l. . for diceret r. doceret . p. . l. . for preception r. perception . books published by the right reverend father in god , edw. l. bishop of worcester , and sold by h. mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . a rational account of the grounds of the protestant religion ; being a vindication of the lord archbishop of canterbury's relation of a conference , &c. from the pretended answer of t. c. d . edit . fol. origines britannicae , or the antiquities of the british churches , with a preface concerning some pretended antiquities relating to britain , in vindication of the bishop of st. asaph . fol. irenicum , a weapon-salve for the churches wounds . to . origines sacrae , or a rational account of the grounds of christian faith , as to the truth and divine authority of the scripture and the matters therein contained . to . a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it . vo . an answer to several late treatises occasion'd by a book , entituled , a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it ; part i. vo . a second discourse in vindication of the protestant grounds of faith , against the pretence of infallibility in the roman church , in answer to the guide in controversie , by r. h. protestancy without principles , and reason , and religion ; or the certain rule of faith , by e. w. with a particular enquiry into the miracles of the roman church . vo . an answer to mr. cressy's epistle apologetical to a person of honour , touching his vindication of dr. stillingfleet . vo . a defence of the discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , in answer to a book entituled , catholicks no idolaters . vo . several conferences between a roman priest , a fanatick chaplain , and a divine of the church of england ; being a full answer to the late dialogues of t. g. vo . a discourse concerning bonds of resignation of benefices in point of law and conscience , vo . a discourse concerning the illegality of the ecclesiastical commission , in answer to the vindication and defence of it : wherein the true notion of the legal supremacy is clear'd ; and an account is given of the nature ▪ original and mischief of the dispensing power . the unreasonableness of separation , or an impartial account of the history , nature and pleas of the present separation from the communion of the church of england . to . the grand question concerning the bishops right to vote in parliament in cases capital stated and argued , from the parliament rolls and the history of former times ; with an enquiry into their peerage , and the three estates in parliament . vo . a discourse concerning the doctrine of christ's satisfaction ; or the true reasons of his sufferings ; with an answer to the socinian objections . to which is added , a sermon concerning the mysteries of the christian faith , preached april . . with a preface concerning the true state of the controversie about christ's satisfaction . vo . twelve sermons preached on several occasions , by the right reverend father in god , edward , lord bishop of worcester . the first volume . vo . a second volume will speedily be publish'd . the effigies of the right reverend father in god , edward , lord bishop of worcester , engraven on a copper-plate by robert white . price d. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e p. . p. . p. . p. . book . ch. . sect. . p. . ch. . sect. . p. . p. ▪ p. . p. . p. . p. . p. , . p. . book . ch . . sect. . p. . p. . p ▪ . p. , , , , . p. . essay , b. . ch . . sect. . ch. . sect. , , . p. , , , . p. . p. . b . ch . . sect. . sect. , , . p. . p. . p. . b. . ch. . sect. . p. . p. . voss. etymol . in v. sto. thucyd. l. . p. . ed. ox. & l. . p. acad. l. . . cicer. in lucul . c. . c. . p. . p. . book . ch. . sect. . ch. . sect. . christianity not myst. p. . p. . p. . b. . ch . . sect. . sect. , &c. sect . sect. . book . ch. . sect. . sect. . sect. . sect. . sect. . b. . ch . . . sect. . b. . ch . . sect. . p. . p. . p. . p. . id. p. . . b. . ch. . sect. . sect. . sect. . sect. . sect. . p. . p. . leviath . ch . . leviath . ch . . vindicat. of leviath . p. , . p. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . book . ch. . sect. . book . ch . . sect. . . sect. . sect. . sect. . book . ch. . sect. . b. . ch . . sect. . b . ch . . sect. . b. . ch . . sect. . b. ch . . sect. . sect. . b. . ch . . sect. . sect . b. . ch . . sect . b. . ch . . sect. . sect. . letter , p. . de immort . animae . c. . let. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . ib. p. . p. p. . p. . b. . ch. sect . ch. . sect. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . cum enim duo sint genera rerum quae sciuntur , unum earum quae per sensus corporis percipit animus , alterum earum quae per scipsum ▪ multa illi philosophi garrierunt contra corporis sensus ; animi autem quasdam firmissimas per seipsum perceptiones rerum verarum , quale est illud , scio me vivere , nequaquam in dubium vocare potuerunt . de trin. l. . c. . p. . p. p. . p. . p. . p. . ● . ch . . sect. . ch. . sect. . sect. . ch. . sect. ch. . sect. . sect. . sect. ch ●● . sect. . sect. , sect. . b . ch . . sect. . sect. . sect. . sect. . sect. . sect. . sect. . sect. . leviath . ch . . b. . ch . . sect. . p. p. . p. . b. . ch . . sect. , , , . sect. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. ● . p. . p. . p. . book . ch. . sect. . ch. . sect. . sect. . sect. sect. . sect. . sect. . sect. . b. . ch . . sect. . sect. . ch. . sect. ▪ ●●●● sect. . sect. . a second letter to mr. g. in answer to two letters lately published concerning the conference at the d. of p. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : or : ) a second letter to mr. g. in answer to two letters lately published concerning the conference at the d. of p. stillingfleet, edward, - . godden, thomas, - . p. printed for h. mortlocke ..., london : . dated and signed: london, apr. , . e.s. [i.e. edward stillingfleet]. reply to two letters by edward meredith; the first, "a letter desiring information of the conference at the dean of st. paul's, mentioned in the letter to mr. g. [i.e. thomas godden]", taking exception to stillingfleet's "letter to mr. g., giving a true account of the late conference"; the second, "a letter to dr. e.s. concerning his late letter to mr. g." cf. gillow, j. a literary and biographical history; bibl. dict. of the english catholics. advertisement: p. . item at reel : identified as wing s (number cancelled in wing nd ed.). reproduction of original in duke university library and trinity college library, cambridge university. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng meredith, edward, - ? -- letter to dr. e.s. concerning his late letter to mr. g. catholic church -- infallibility. tradition (theology) - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - melanie sanders sampled and proofread - melanie sanders text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a second letter to mr. g. in answer to two letters lately published concerning the conference at the d. of p. imprimatur , guil. needham . apr. . . london , printed for h. mortlocke , at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . . a second letter to mr. g. sir , you may wonder that i continue my application to your self , when two gentlemen , have appeared in print so lately for you ; but the character they give of you is so extraordinary , that i have no mind to change my man ; and therefore hope you will at last generously undertake the defence of your own cause . the authour of the first letter , saith , those that know you better think there is not an honester man in the nation , and that if you have wronged me it is the first wrong you ever did in your life . i am afraid some will suspect your friend was not in earnest when he wrote this ; and that it rather looks like libelling the nation than commending you. but because it is so rare a thing to meet with a person set forth with such advantage ; you cannot blame me for desiring to hold a correspondence with you in the way of letters . for all mr. m's arguments for verbal conferences have not prevailed upon 〈◊〉 ; and therefore i proceed in writing another i 〈◊〉 to you , looking on this way as much freer 〈…〉 sudden heats and surprises , more cautious and 〈…〉 erate , and less liable to cavils and misrepresete 〈…〉 . and methi●ks the account mr. m. gives of our con●●rence , confutes all his arguments ; unless they ●e ●etter managed in ●●ffee-houses and other places , i. e. with more temper ●nd fairness than he represents ours to have been . the truth is , the experience i have had of the disingenuity both in and after them hath made me not very fond of them . but it may be verbal conferences are most agreeable to oral tradition ; but we who prefer a written rule as far more certain , rather chuse to publish in writing the sense of our minds , than leave it to the arbitrary representing of others words . which i had suffered so much by , that i was forced for my own vindication to betake my self to writing a former letter to you , wherein i complained of the injury done me by false and imperfect copies of our conference dispersed by you . if that were the first wrong you ever did in your life , i am very sorry you should begin with me . for after all that your friends have said for you i am still of the same opinion . and in this letter shall more fully give you my reasons . but i hope you are not now one hundred and fifty miles off , lest i be told again that i take advantage of your great distance , as though i durst not write to you at a less distance than between l. and ch. but in case you were there still , am i the less injured by your going so far ? or less obliged to vindicate my self among those who had been abused by false reports and copies of the conference ? i now apply my self to what mr. m. hath said for you in answer to my former letter . mr. m. saith p. . you were far from making great boasts of a victory after the conference . must i rely on mr. m.'s authority , against the infallibility of oral tradition ? the matter of fact was deliver'd to me from several persons who themselves heard you , and in several places . what must i now believe according to your infallible rule of oral tradition ? here are several witnesses of unquestionable credit , who had it ( not by a long series from father to son , but ) immediately from your own mouth ; who could not easily forget what they heard you say , and would not out of malice alter it , and yet your own advocate declares expresly contrary to them , and thinks i am bound to believe his testimony against them all . i pray , sir , consider what a reflexion this is upon your rule , and what little security we can have for our faith then , by oral tradition . if so many persons who were competent judges of what they heard themselves , and whose testimony i had no reason to suspect , could so strangely deceive me , at so little a distance , what infallibility can you pretend in bare tradition of matters of faith , when the things themselves are so much harder to conceive and deliver entire , and the distance so very much greater ? either therefore you must renounce your advocate if you hold to the infallibility of oral tradition ; or if you hold to mr. m. you must renounce your rule of faith. mr. m. seems to deny the charge of your giving out false and imperfect copies of the conference . but that which i charged you chiefly with , was from one that was received from your own hands ; and the rest i saw afterwards agreed with it . and yet mr. m. cannot deny that the copies given out contained lame and unfinished discourses p. . that the noise and wrangling might hinder the writers from being so exact , p. . that we parted in so great a hurry , that those things which were spoken were not written , nor some , perhaps , of what was written so nicely exact , &c. p. . that in the latter part of this dispute things were not set down so exactly as they ought to have been , ibid. that the disputations of the conference are lame and imperfect , p. . these being the words of your own advocane , had i not just cause to complain that such copies should be dispersed abroad , as a true account of the conference between us ; whereas himself confesses them to have been so lame and imperfect ? and yet these were given about with great industry and care , as though an entire account of what passed at the conference , were contained in them ; and few days passed , but i heard great boasts were made of this conference , and some said that they had it under my hand that i was baffled . i think therefore , i had reason to complain , of imperfect copies , since mr. m. confesses they were no better . but this is not all , for i had said the copies i had seen were false as well as imperfect . to make out this charge i must insist on some particulars , as they are in that copy , which was given by your self . when mr. t. declared himself satisfied as to the grounds of faith , without the roman churches infallibility , which was the true state of the question debated in the first part ( of which more by and by . ) he desired to know for his own satisfaction , how you would prove the church of rome to be infallible ? this in your copy is said to be put by me . and lest this might be thought a mere casual mistake , i am certainly informed that mr. m. told a gentleman to whom he gave a copy , that i proposed the question about the church of romes infallibility ( as though i did it on purpose to divert the discourse ) whereas mr. t. declaring himself satisfied with the answers given about the grounds of our certainty , desired that he might propose a question to you , how you could prove the church of rome to be infallible ? and in a copy sent from ch. where you dispersed it , the title of the second dispute is , stillingfleet's first question , how do you prove , &c. so that my name was here falsly put in ; and it is easie to guess with what design . but to proceed . when you said the infallibility of the church of rome consisted in following the universal testimony of all traditionary christians , your copy makes me ask a very wise question upon it , viz. how does if appear that the church of rome is infallible in traditiun ? whereas i put two questions to you . ( . ) how does it appear that the church of rome is infallible in the sense and meaning of tradition ? ( . ) is this tradition a rule of faith distinct from scripture ? the design of which questions was to shew , ( . ) that to receive a doctrine by mere tradition can afford no infallible ground of faith , unless persons be assured of the true sense and meaning of the doctrine so delivered . as for instance , suppose the doctrine delivered be that christ was the son of god ; if the infallibility of tradition goes no farther than the bare delivery from father to son , then faith can go no farther than the general words , though an heretical sense may lie under them . if the infallibility doth extend to the sense and meaning of these words , then either every traditionary christian is to give this sense which will make a very large infallibility in the whole body of traditionary christians , or else the explaining the sense and meaning of tradition must belong to a certain order of men by virtue of a divine promise . if so , then the infallibility of tradition cannot consist in holding the same doctrine to day that was delivered yesterday , and so up to the time of our blessed saviour , as you asserted . for , if the church may explain the sense and meaning of tradition , so as to oblige men to believe that by virtue of such explication which they were not obliged to before , then it is impossible the infallibility of tradition should be in a constant tradition from father to son. for they have no power to oblige to any more than they received : but according to the doctrine of the church of rome ( and some will tell you , it is heresie to deny it , and i appeal to f. warner if it be not ) the church hath power and authority to explain the sense and meaning of tradition , so as persons are obliged upon p●in of damnation to believe that sense and meaning of tradition which the present church delivers . as will appear by an undeniable instance . the tradition of a real presence in the eucharist is allowed on all hands ; but all the controversie is and hath been for some ages , what the sense and meaning of this tradition is ? whether it be a real presence by way of efficacy and influence , or by a mystical union , or by a substantial change of the very elements into the body and bloud of christ. the tradition of the real presence may be preserved under every one of these explications : the question now is whether it be sufficient to adhere to the general tradition of the church ; or it be not necessary to salvation to adhere to the churches explication of the sense and meaning of this tradition in the councils of lateran and trent ? if it be said that the sense and meaning of this tradition as there expressed ( viz. transubstantiation ) was always deliver'd from father to son : i answer , . this is more than is pretended by many of the greatest men in the roman church , as hath been lately abundantly shewed . and it is impossible to make it out that the manner of the presence , hath been constantly delivered from father to son from the time of christ and his apostles ; for the main testimonies alledged out of antiquity are onely for a real presence ; and there are as express testimonies against the change of the elements , as there are any for the other . . this takes off from the power and authority of the church of rome if it cannot make a necessary explication of the sense and meaning of tradition , and resolves all into a meer humane faith ; which is the unavoidable consequence of this doctrine of oral tradition . for no other account can be given of it than from meer natural reason , viz. that traditionary christians could not believe otherwise to day than they did yesterday . granting this to be true ( which is very far from being so , as shall be shewed , when your answer to the instance of the greek church comes abroad ) yet the utmost this can amount to is , that i resolve my faith into a logical demonstration . and is this the faith christians are to be saved by ? what grace of god , what assistence of the holy spirit are necessary to such a faith as this ? but for this , i refer you to the haeresis blackloäna , &c. . i intended by the second question to put a difference between the tradition allowed by us , and the tradition disputed . if no more were meant by tradition than the universal tradition of the christian church as to the books of scripture ; this i had before granted to be a sufficient ground for the certainty of our faith as to the canon of scripture , which is our rule of faith ; but if by tradition be understood , either some necessary articles of faith not contained in scripture , or a power in the church to make unnecessary to become necessary ; this i denyed and desire to see some better proof of it than you produce . all the answer which you give in your own paper to these two questions , is , that all traditionary christians , that is all bishops , all priests , all fathers and all people following this rule , and receiving faith because it was received the day before could not innovate in faith , unless they could all either forget what they received the day before , or out of malice change it , therefore because no cause can be assigned for such an effect , they cannot innovate ; if there can ? assign it . now to which of the questions that i put is this an answer ? doth this shew that the church of rome is infallible in giving the sense and meaning of tradition ? or that this tradition is a rule of faith distinct from scripture ? but it seems to be an answer to the question in your copy ; and therefore it is very suspicious , that the question was so framed , that the answer might seem pertinent to it . to shew the vanity of this demonstration , i produced the instance of the greek church which followed tradition from father to son , and yet you charge it with errour in matters of faith , so that a church following tradition may err in matters of faith. here again your copy notoriously fails , for it makes me put such another wise question as before . whether the greek church did follow from father to son the tradition in matters of faith or no ? as though i had desired information from you , whether it did , yea , or no ? and that had been all . but i urged plainly that it did , and notwithstanding you charge it with errour ( nay with heresie ; ) which overthrows all the force of your demonstration , that a church following tradition cannot err , when you charge a church following tradition with heresie . and is not this some thing like falsification , to leave out the whole force and strength of an argument ? and to leave it a very insipid toothless question ? no , saith mr. m. p. . it was onely to spare a little unnecessary pains ; for it cannot be imagined he should have any other design in leaving out those words . i do not charge the gentleman who wrote with a design to falsily , but i cannot excuse you from dispersing false copies , in that when you could not but see the notorious defects of this copy , you would disperse it as containing a true account of the conference . methinks you were very sparing in the necessary pains of correcting it , before you had read it in companies for the true copy and given it to others to transcribe . as to the conclusion mr. m. confesses that it was not distinctly set down ; but i say again , that copy is false in the conclusion . for these are the words , [ the greek church followed tradition from father to son ] till they left that rule and took up another and so fell into errour as the calvinists did . here is not one word concerning the arians , which you cannot but remember that you ran to and mentioned over and over , when i told you the greek church did still follow tradition as her rule ; you said the arians left the rule and interpreted scripture as the calvinists did . i told you again that i meant not the arians , but the present greek church ; and i do particularly remember that i desired the gentleman who wrote for you to put down in his paper that it was the present greek church i spake of . i grant as mr. m. saith p. . that it was not set down by your consent any where ; for the truth is , when you found your self pinched by this instance , you grew so very uneasie , that you did all you could to bring things into that confusion and disorder , which mr. m. mentions . you rose up in a great heat , and talked a great deal to no purpose about calvinists , &c. for , all the ways i could use could not bring you to set down any farther answer to the pressing instance of the greek church . you confessed , i had raised a vast difficulty about it ; but after all , you left no answer behind you to this difficulty , and i still desire you to give it . mr. m. p. . doth ingenuously confess that this point was not fully cleared . no , not in any measure . but he saith , i began with reproaches . i confess it is a terrible reproach to tell a man , he cannot answer an argument : but that he makes use of tricks to avoid it ; and that i never met with any that excelled you in that kind . farther than this , i remember not that i used any term of reproach to you . and the onely way to wipe off such a reproach is to give a fair and ingenuous answer ; and till that be done , this reproach will stick . as to mr. t 's slip in calling the greek church an universal church , methinks you might excuse him for the sake of the roman catholick church ; which in other words is the roman universal church . and why should not such a contradiction doe as well in greek as latin ; since the patriarch of constantinople had the title of oecumenical patriarch ? but this gentleman cannot escape so ; for although mr. m. cannot deny , that at the end of the first dispute he declared that he was fully satisfied with my answers ; ( p. ) yet he desires leave to judge how far this satisfaction of mr. t. was rational and what grounds he had for it . if mr. t. had been unsatisfied with my answers , no doubt he had passed for a rational and ingenious man ; but his misfortune is , that he could not see reason in your demonstrations ; nor the want of it in what i offer'd to prove the certainty of our faith , without your pretence to infallibility . therefore to satisfie the world that mr. t. had sufficient grounds for what he then said , i shall now examine and weigh all the parts of that conference , and consider what mr. m. hath said about it . the occasion of it is thus set down by him ( p. . ) you had affirmed in some companies that no protestant could shew any ground of absolute certainty for their faith ; and that mr. t. had promised you that if i were not able to manifest the contrary he would forsake our communion . hitherto mr. t. was a very rational man , because he appeared to doubt of his religion ; and if a little thing had satisfied him ; i. e. if he had been converted by your demonstration , he had been more so than ever . but if a man cannot be convinced by your reason to change his religion , who can help it ? and yet i very much question whether f.w. would absolve any man who professed to embrace the catholick faith on your grounds ; which overthrow the churches authority in matters of faith , and proceed upon pelagian principles . the first thing which was proposed , saith mr. m. ( p. . ) and indeed the onely subject mr. g. had any purpose to discourse on was , whether protestants had a ground of absolute certainty for their faith , or not ? here the faith spoken of , is that faith whereby we are christians , and your pretence was that without your infallibility we can have no absolute certainty of the christian faith , i. e. of the grounds on which we believe the scripture to contain the word of god ; or all things necessary to be believ'd by us in order to salvation . therefore when the question was put by you : q. . whether you are absolutely certain that you hold now the same tenets in faith , and all that our saviour taught to his apostles ? a. . my answer was , that we are absolutely certain that we now hold all the same doctrine that was taught by christ and his apostles . wherein i plainly distinguish between that doctrine which christ by his own mouth taught his apostles , and that which the apostles did by the spirit of christ teach the whole church . the account i offered as to the christian faith , was not , as to what christ taught by an oral tradition ( as the iews affirm of moses delivering an unwritten law ) but i framed my answer on purpose , to shew that our faith is not to be resolved into what christ taught any otherwise than as it is conveyed to us by the writings of the apostles and evangelists . for the resolution of our faith , as to what christ himself taught , is not to be made into the words of christ teaching , conveyed by an oral tradition from his time downwards , but into the words of christ as recorded by the holy writers of the new testament . and so much i expressed in answer to the next question . q. . by what certain rule do you hold it ? a. . by the divine revelations contained in the writings of the new testament . here was no subtilty or learning requisite , but to give a plain answer , as to the rule of our faith. which we do assert to be the written word , and no oral tradition . q. . then follow'd , by what certain rule do you know that the new testament , which we now have does contain all the divine revelations of christ and his apostles ? a. . by the vniversal testimony of the christian church from the apostles time downwards . in which answer , i laid down the grounds of our different resolution of faith from that which you contend for ; and which i at large explained in the conference it self ; viz. that our certainty of faith is chiefly resolved into the testimony of the apostolical churches , which first received the books of the new testament from the divine writers of them ; and from these churches where the authentick writings themselves were preserved , copies were dispersed over other churches , which by comparing together the testimonies of the several churches , did by degrees fix upon the certain canon of the new testament . here a question was started , whether all the books of the new testament were alike received ? i answer'd , not at first , but after due examination those which were at first controverted , came to be universally received . and i particularly instanced in the church of rome ; which a long time did not receive the epistle to the hebrews , when it was received by other churches ; but at last did yield to the testimony of other churches therein . from whence i observed , that the church of rome was far from being believed then to have the authority of making the canon of scripture , or being infallible in faith , it being then taxed for disbelieving a part of scripture , and being at last over-ruled by the testimony of the other apostolical churches . i remember i asked you how it came about that the church of rome in st ierom's time did err about the epistle to the hebrews , if there were any infallibility in it ? and your answer was , that rome was at a great distance from judea : which i thought a strange answer , considering the communication the churches then had at greater distance , and the frequent recourse of iews to rome ; but especially if that church had any promise of infallibility made to it . which , to be just to you , i do not remember that you once asserted , in all that two hours discourse . and truly you were not inconsistent with your principles therein : for infallibility by promise and by oral tradition are as different as grace and nature , or the assent of faith from a dictate of reason . in faith a divine testimony is supposed ; in the infallibility of oral tradition nothing but a natural principle , that men must hold the same doctrine to day that they did yesterday , and so up to the time of our blessed saviour . where the different method of our resolving faith appears ; you begin at the present time , and so run upwards , but the force of all lies in the connexion of one link with another inseparably ; which , i say , will by no means hold ; but ours begins with the apostolical churches which first received the sacred books , and delivered them down ; their testimony is the authentick instrument of conveying down the canon of scripture , and the following tradition of the church is onely a conveying down that first testimony upon which we believe the canon of the new testament . there were many interlocutory passages about this subject ; but this is the substance of what i distinctly remember . q. . was that vniversal testimony an infallible rule to assure us certainly down to our time that the new testament contained all the divine revelations of christ and his apostles ? a. . the vniversal testimony of the christian church concerning the book of scripture , and the doctrine contained therein is a sufficient ground to make us certain of all matters necessary to our salvation . to make this answer clear , we are to consider that the scripture being our sole and entire rule of faith , all matters necessary to salvation must be supposed to be contained therein ; and therefore the same testimony which delivers the scripture to us , doth deliver all the necessary articles of faith as contained therein . which are there received as in the lump ; and if we receive the book which contains all , we must by the same authority receive all contained in it . as if a purse be left to a man by his father's will , full of gold and silver , and this by the executours be declared to contain all the gold and silver his father left him ; they who deliver this purse to him from the executours , do certainly deliver to him all the gold and silver left him by his father . but if he suspects there was both gold and silver left him by his father which was not in that purse , then he must call in question the integrity of the executours who declared that all was contained therein . this is now the case of the christian church as to all divine truths which respect mens salvation ; the primitive church , who answer to the executours in the other case , did unanimously declare that all such truths were undoubtedly contained in the written word . although therefore there may be a real difference in the nature of the doctrines therein contained , as there is between gold and silver , yet he that receives all must receive the one as well as the other ; and the matters of salvation being of greatest moment , they that receive the whole will of god upon grounds of certainty must be assured that therein they receive all matters necessary to our salvation . against my answer to this question mr. m. suggests several things ; ( p. . ) ( . ) as to difference of translations . doth mr. m. think our faith is to be resolved into the original texts ? what becomes then of the vulgar latin ? for although the council of trent declares it to be authentick , yet i take it to be but a translation . but there is a difference of translations , and there is no unanimous consent of the christian church for any one . and how is it possible there should be since the christian church consists of so many bodies of men of different countries and languages ? but we have the unanimous consent of all the ancient christian churches for the translation of the scripture into their own languages ; which shews that they thought the people ought to be acquainted with it as the word of god so translated ; and that they were to resolve their faith into it , as they were capable of understanding it . and it is very hard to conceive how faith can be resolved into an unknown tongue ; but we have the unanimous consent of the christian church that faith must rest upon the word of god which is contained in the books of scripture . and therefore we have the consent of the christian church against resolving faith into the infallibility of oral tradition . for if this were the christian method of resolving faith , there would have been very little use or necessity of scripture ; and the fathers were extremely mistaken in the mighty characters which on all occasions they give of it ; not onely of the excellency of the matter contained in it , but as a rule of faith for all christians ; as i might easily shew if there were occasion . but i desire to see any thing like the consent of the christian church from the apostles times downwards for resolving faith into mere oral tradition ; and certainly if the church had used this way , it must have understood it and expressed it . and it is a just prescription against a method of resolving faith , that the ancient christian church , which consisted ( i hope ) of true believers , never knew any thing concerning it ; and yet , i suppose , they had absolute certainty of their faith ; though they had different translations of the bible among them . ( . ) as to the number of books . i do not deny that there was in the first ages a difference in several churches about the number of canonical books ; but this doth not hinder that vniversal testimony i mentioned ; for ( . ) it adds weight to the churches testimony that where there was any controversie about any canonical book of the new testament , the matter was examined and debated , and at last after a through discussion the book was received , as happened about the epistle to the hebrews . which was not received by the authority of one church imposing upon another , but by a fair examination of evidence produced for its apostolical authority : which being allow'd , it hath been received by the unanimous consent of the christian church . ( . ) there hath been ever since an uncontradicted consent of the christian church as to the canonical books of the new testament . no one church disputing the authority of any of them . and even the council of trent agrees with us herein ; although it endeavours to obtrude some books for canonical in the old testament , which never had the universal consent of the jewish or christian church for them . ( . ) he desires to know , how i understand that all the divine revelations are contained in the new testament , viz. whether all necessary articles of faith are contained in the new testament virtually and implicitly , or clearly and explicitly ; the former will doe me little service , the latter is contradicted by the church of rome , and therefore i can plead no vniversal testimony of the christian church ; and so my plea for absolute certainty is groundless . to this i answer , ( . ) if it be agreed that all doctrines of faith necessary to salvation are contained in scripture either explicitly or implicitly ( which mr. m. denies not ) it is sufficient for my purpose . for the ground of my faith is absolutely certain , viz. that all necessary articles of faith are contained in scripture ; and if they be explicit , i am bound to give a distinct assent to them ; if they be not , then no more is required of me than to believe them , when they do appear to be there ; which is no more than a general preparation of mind to yield my assent to whatsoever doth appear to me to be the word of god. so that my faith rests on the word of god as its absolute ground of certainty ; but the particular certainty as to this or that doctrine depends upon the evidence that it is contained in scripture . and it is the general ground of faith we are now upon , and not the particular acts of it . ( . ) the church of romes assuming to it self the power of making implicit articles to become explicit by its declaring the sense of them , doth not overthrow the certainty of our faith. for as long as it is granted that all necessary articles of faith are there explicitely or implicitely by an universal consent of the christian church , it signifies nothing to the shaking of my faith that a particular part of the church doth assume such a power to it self . for this must come among the particular points of faith , and not the general grounds : it must be looked on as an article of faith , and so it must be contained in scripture either explicitely or implicitely . if explicitely , we desire to see it in express terms , which i suppose you will not pretend to ; if only implicitely , i pray tell me how i can be explicitely bound to believe such a power in the church of rome , which is only implicitely there ? and by what power this implicite article comes to be made explicite ? for the power of the church it self being the article in question , it is impossible that while it is only implicitely there , it should make it self explicit . if it be said , that it will become explicit to any sober enquirer ; then every such person may without the churches help find out all necessary points of faith ; which is a doctrine i am so far from being ashamed of , that i think it most agreeable to the goodness of god , the nature of the christi●n faith , and the unanimous consent of the christian church for many ages . but this is beyond our present business . ( . ) the church of rome hath no-where declared in council , that it hath any such power of making implicit articles of faith contained in scripture to become explicit by its explaining the sense of them . for the church of rome doth not pretend to make new articles of faith ; but to make an implicit doctrine to become explicit , is really to make a new article of faith. it doth not indeed make a new divine revelation ; but it makes that which was not necessary to be believed , to become necessary ; and what is not necessary to be believed , is no article of faith. what is only believed implicitely is not actually believed ; but there is only a preparation of mind to believe it , supposing it to be made appear to be a matter of faith. besides , the church of rome declares that it receives its doctrines by tradition ; and although i have often heard of an implicit faith , i know not what to make of an implicit tradition . i had thought whatever is delivered by way of tradition must be explicit ; or else the father and son might easily be mistaken : and so for all that i can see mr. m. and you must dispute it out ; for you say , that the infallibility of faith depends on oral tradition , and the infallibility of oral tradition on this , that the traditionary christians hold the same doctrine to day that was delivered yesterday in faith , and so up to the time of our b. saviour . but what think you now of mr. m.'s assertion , that the church hath power to interpret and make known implicit doctrines contained in scripture , so as to make it necessary to believe them explicitely ? for he saith , that all the churches in communion with rome do hold there are divine revelations in scripture , which are contained there virtually and implicitely , so as they need the churches interpretation and authority for being made known to us . let us now lay these two assertions together . if your doctrine hold good , all doctrines of faith must be explicitely delivered from father to son ; no , saith mr. m. the church hath power to make known doctrines implicitely and virtually contained in scripture . i pray could the father communicate to his son what was only implicitely and virtually contained in scripture ? if mr. m. say true , here is a very possible cause of innovation assigned without forgetfulness or malice ; viz. when the fathers of the church take upon them to draw forth implicit doctrines , and to make them explicit articles of faith. and thus undoubtedly many innovations have come into the church ; when some persons have taken up a particular opinion , and because nothing would prevail without scripture , they have attempted to bring it out of scripture ; but that being not plain or clear for it , they gave out it was virtually and implicitely contained in it ; and thus it passed from one to another , till it getting footing in the church , and prevailing over a great part of it ; then , lest the church should be charged with errour and innovation , the prevailing party takes upon it to declare this to be the sense and meaning of scripture , and to require all persons of their communion to believe it . and thus mr. m. hath answered your demonstration . but still , although the church of rome hath assumed such a power , yet it still disowned it , and even in the council of trent pretended to interpret scripture according to the unanimous sense of the fathers ; which is directly contrary to the power of making known such a sense and meaning of scripture in doctrines of faith , as may oblige men to believe that explicitely now , which they were not obliged to , by any precedent sense or explication . i come now to the fifth and last question . qu. . being the words christian church may be taken in several latitudes by persons of different religions , i desire to know what that christian church is , whose testimony concerning the books of scripture , and the doctrine contained therein , is a sufficient ground to make us certain of all matters that are necessary to our salvation ? ans. . by the universal testimony of the christian church concerning the books of scripture which are our rule of faith as to matters of salvation , i mean , the universal consent of all christian churches from the apostles times downwards . this mr. m. calls trifling ( p. . ) and in this you agree , though you differ in the resolution of faith. but i pray wherein does this trifling lie ? was it because i would not answer as you would have had me ? but i do not yet see how i could have answered more to the purpose . the question in short was , what the christian church was , whose universal testimony i relied upon as to the canon of scripture ? my answer was , that the christian church is that which is made up of all christian churches ; and their universal consent is that testimony we rely upon . is this trifling ? but , saith mr. m. ( p. . ) mr. g. 's intention was to know what churches i accounted christian churches . i told you over and over , since we were enquiring into the general grounds of faith , if we had the universal testimony of all christian churches , i had no reason to go any farther . for , if all churches of the christian world be agreed , as they are , about the canon of the new testament , this was sufficient for the certainty of our faith , without looking after any infallibility in the church of rome . and this , you know , was the main point in dispute between us ; as appears by the occasion of it , as it is set down by mr. m. you affirmed , that no protestant could shew any ground of absolute certainty for their faith : i undertook to shew we had ; for our faith is resolved into the scripture as the word of god ; and whatever is built on the word of god is absolutely certain : and that these books of the new testament contain our rule of faith as being the word of god , we have the universal testimony of all christian churches . and this makes our faith as to these books absolutely certain . and where now is the trifling ? doth the universal testimony of all christian churches afford sufficient ground of certainty as to the books of scripture or not ? if not , why do you not shew wherein it fails ? if it doth , what mean you to call this trifling ? when it is apparent i have gained the point i aimed at , viz. that we protestants have certain grounds for our faith , without any need of the roman churches infallibility . which was the thing to be shewed . but mr. m. tells me ( p. . ) that you asked me whether i included the arians , nestorians , eutychians and calvinists , and urged that this question might be written down , to which i did not consent : because mr. t. declared he was fully satisfied and desired to propose a new question to mr. g. i grant you did ask me the question several times , whether i included the arians , nestorians , &c. i told you i rejected the doctrines of all such as were condemned by the four general councils , as the arians , nestorians and eutychians were ; but it was not pertinent to our purpose to consider , how far any under those denominations might be parts of the catholick church . for since we had the consent of all christian churches in this matter , i had no reason to lessen the evidence they gave by a concurrent testimony . for the argument was so much stronger , since all churches , under all denominations did agree in it . but mr. m. still complains , that i would not permit your sixth question , viz. what churches i look'd on as members of the christian church ? it is strange he should forget for what reason i rejected it , viz. because it was not pertinent to our business . for , if the testimony of all christian churches be more considerable than only of some , why should i lessen the strength of the argument taken from the universal consent of all christian churches ? the other question must have led us into other disputes foreign to our business ; and my design was to keep close to the matter of certainty ; about which the conference began . and now i hope i have given an answer to the letter desiring information of the conference ; which i did forbear in my first letter to set down at large , foreseeing that either your self or your friend would offer me farther occasion , to give a suffer account of it . but because the substance of the whole conference depended on those two points , . whether the universal consent of all christian churches be not a sufficient ground for our certainty as to our rule of faith , viz. the scripture ? . whether tradition from father to son , be an infallible conveyance of matters of faith ? to shew , wherein the main force of the whole conference lay in few words , i desired you to make good these two things ; . that we have no absolute certainty as to the rule of our faith , viz. the scripture ; although we have a larger and firmer tradition for it , viz. the consent of all christian churches , than you can have for the points in difference between us . . that the tradition from father to son , is an infallible conveyance in matters of faith , notwithstanding the greek church is charged by you with errour , which adhered to tradition . now upon this , the authour of the first letter desires to be commended to me us a man who loves to spare his own pains . for 't is as much as to say , do you doe all the work , and i will sit by and tell you whether it be well done or no , must mr. g. prove that protestants have no absolute certainty ? i think you are bound to do it , upon mr. m's own account of the occasion of the conference , viz. that you affirmed that no protestants could shew any ground of certainty for their faith. and upon this the conference was desired ; and since therein , i undertake to shew what our ground of certainty was , you ought to make it evident wherein it fails ; and you have not so much as offer'd at any thing to disprove it , but would fairly have run into another dispute ; and because i would not yield to it , you and mr. m. call me a trifler . you see i have not been so sparing of my pains now ; but i would commend that gentleman to you , who get other men to do your work for you . but he goes on , i thought it had concerned them to be satisfied that they have . yes , so we are ; and are very well satisfied that we stand upon surer grounds , than those who go upon the baffled pretence of the infallibility of oral tradition ; for which no one church of the christian world hath declared . for the infallibility of tradition in the church of rome is another thing , depending upon a divine promise and not a kind of meer natural infallibility . but he saith , he takes no notice that the question is veered from certainty of protestant doctrine to certainty of scripture . how strangely mistaken is this gentleman in the whole matter ! for the question was wholly about the certainty of faith in general ; as fully appears by what is said already . when the grounds of faith are made clear , we shall come easier to particular points of difference between us . if we may have sufficient certainty without your pretence of infallibility , then we may have a true and sound faith without coming into your church ; and where there is such a faith there is a possibility of salvation , and consequently there can be no necessity of forsaking the communion of a church , where we have such certain grounds of faith. mr. m. in answer to the first particular speaks more home and close to the purpose , and therefore what he saith deserves to be more strictly examined . ( . ) it is not denied , saith he ( p. . ) that there is in faith an absolute certainty for that scripture wherein we agree . thus far mr. m. grants what you deny , that we protestants have absolute certainty for our faith. but he will not allow us to be able to shew any such certainty on our principles . now this is truly a hard case we are in ; there is an absolute certainty , and this certainty lies in universal tradition ; and we can shew this universal tradition , and yet we cannot shew the true ground of our certainty . if this be our case , we deserve to be either pitied or begg'd . but surely mr. m. hath some colour for such a strange assertion . this is all he pretends for it ; that in the time of the reformation , the protestants charged all christian churches with errours , not only in other articles of their belief , but even in the tradition or delivery of scripture . therefore we can have no certainty now from the universal tradition of christian churches . suppose some men were then to blame in charging some churches with more errours than they were guilty of ; must therefore no argument be taken from their consent when things are more cleared and better understood ? this is just as if it had been said of the blind man whom our saviour cured , you saw men walking like trees at first , and therefore you have no right to judge them to be otherwise now . or like one newly escaped out of a dark prison , who fears and suspects every one he meets and takes all for enemies , till he be better acquainted with them ; must this man therefore never have any certain knowledge afterwards of friends and enemies ? but why doth not mr. m. name the churches which the reformers charged with errours in delivering the canon of scripture ? i am sure they plead the consent of the eastern churches against the tridentine canon , as to the old testament ; and all christian churches are known to agree as to the new , and why such an universal consent should not afford a ground of certainty to us , is beyond my understanding . ( . ) he saith , our rule is scripture , not as interpreted ( or to be interpreted ) by the church , but as understood ( or to be understood , without a necessity of submitting to the interpretation of the church ) by every sober enquirer , tho' of the meanest capacity ; for which rule we are far from having the consent of all christian churches . the main question is , whether scripture be a rule of faith to us , or not ? and certainly all that believe it to be the word of god must take it for a rule of faith. for , since the reason of our believing is because god hath revealed , whatever god hath revealed must be believed ; and a book containing in it such revelations must be the rule of our faith ; i. e. by it we are to judge what we are bound to believe as divine revelations . the best of your divines do all agree , that our faith is not to be resolved into any other revelation than that which was made by christ and his apostles ; and that this revelation is contained in the books of the new testament . this being agreed on both sides , every christian , how mean soever his capacity be , must look on the scripture as his rule of faith ; for he that is bound to believe at all , must have some rule , or else he may believe any thing ; he finds all persons agreed that the scripture is the word of god ; and god's word is an infallible rule : therefore he is bound to search the scripture tor the matters of faith. and is it possible to imagine that god himself should direct the making of this rule for the benefit of all who are bound to believe , and not to make it useful to its end , viz. to be able to direct them in the necessary points of salvation ? the founders of monastie orders made rules for all those who were to live in them , and obliged them to observe them , under pain of expulsion : i desire to know , whether this doth not suppose that those rules are capable of being understood by all persons admitted into those orders , so far as they are concerned ; and whether the penalty would be reasonable , in case they could not understand their duty by them ? but in our case the matter is of far greater moment ; for mens eternal salvation or misery depends upon knowing and doing the will of god contained in scripture ; and therefore it is of so much greater consequence and necessity that all persons who are concerned for their salvation should be able to understand by diligent and carefull reading the scripture so much as is required of them in order to it . and this was the certain faith of the primitive church , that all things necessary to salvation were plain in scripture ; and if they were plain , they needed no interpreter . but we have not the consent of all christian churches that the scripture is a rule of faith without the churches interpretation . i answer , that we have the consent of all christian churches that the scripture is a rule of faith ; but , whether besides this rule , there be an infallible iudge of controversies , or interpreter of scripture , is another distinct controversie . we have the unanimous consent of all christian churches for the one ; but in the present state of christendom we do not pretend it for the other : for we are well enough acquainted with the pretence of infallibility in the church of rome ; but then we say that it is impossible for you to bring such an unanimous consent of all christian churches for your infallible iudge , as we do bring for our rule of faith ; and therefore we have much greater certainty of our rule , than you can have of your infallible iudge . we appeal to all the churches of the christian world for our rule ; you dare not appeal to any one church besides your own for your infallibility : for , it is utterly denied by all the eastern churches , though of very different denominations . and when you bring an universal consent of all christian churches for the roman churches infallibility , i may safely promise to become your convert . but yet they do not agree that every man is to interpret scripture for himself . what is the meaning of inter preting scripture for himfelf ? if it be , that a man is to rely on scripture as his rule of faith in order to salvation , then we have their universal consent , in as much as they deliver this as the rule of faith. if it be , that in doubtfull places he is to rely on his own judgment , without making life of the best helps , then we pretend to no such thing ; for we assert the contrary , and do think in all doubtfull cases that persons are bound to make use of the best and most reasonable means for their satisfaction ; among which we not only reckon prayer , meditation , comparing scripture and expositors upon it , but the help of spiritual guides , and the sense of the primitive church ; which our church doth especially recommend , and which we look on as the best arbitrator between us in all our controversies about the sense of doubtfull places of scripture . but after all , either there must be an infallible iudge , or every man must judge for himself in all matters that concern his salvation . and therefore , if we have the consent of all christian churches , against the only pretended infallible judge , we have their consent likewise , that every man is to judge for his own salvation . and this all mankind are really agreed in , whatever some may pretend ; or else it is to no purpose for you to go about to make converts ; for , in so doing , you make the person you intend to convert judge of the best way to salvation ; and not only so , but you make him judge of all the controversies between us and you , and especially of the true grounds of faith. and how ridiculous after this is it to pretend that a man is not to judge for himself in matters that concern his salvation ? ( . ) lastly , mr. m. ( p. . ) desires to know what those christian churches are , whose testimony is required towards the assuring us , what is scripture and what not , and by what mark i distinguished them from others ? i answer again , by no other mark than that they are christian churches ; and it is a great satisfaction to any mans mind , that however they differ about other matters , yet they are all agreed in the canon of the new testament . i am by no means bound to assign any rule in this case , as you desire , whereby to distinguish orthodox churches from heretical ; for , whatever they are in other points , they all agree in this , which is the foundation of our faith. as to the d . point i proposed in my letter to be made good , viz. that the tradition from father to son is an infallible conveyance of matters of faith , notwithstanding the greek church is charged by you with errours , which adhered to tradition ; the author of the first letter thinks you are concerned to answer it . but then he thinks i am as well bound to answer your argument . in good time ! but was not that very instance of the greek church produced on purpose to shew the weakness of the argument ? and is not making that plain , answering it as effectually , as the philosopher's argument against motion was , when the man moved before him ? for he proved that impossible , which he shewed was so far from it , that he saw him doe it . and sophistical arguments are best answered by clear and undeniable instances : and this of the greek church is of that nature . but he saith , objections may be raised against the most undeniable truth ; and he instanceth in two things mathematically demonstrable ; and yet objections may be made against them , which cannot easily be answered . but the difference of the case is very plain ; for those instances only shew , that there are some things above our comprehension about matter and motion ; but what is this to an infallible rule of faith ; which every one is bound to know , if ( according to you ) he would have any certainty of his faith ? and if it appears by a notorious instance that it fails , ( for a whole church and a very great and ancient church is accused by you of no less than heresie , and yet it adhered to tradition ) then the demonstration is quite gone . but mr. m. saith ( p. . ) that you never acknowledged that the greek church erred while it adhered to tradition ; and therefore my supposing it is to beg the question , and mis-represent the state of the argument . but whether you acknowledged it or not , the greek church did adhere to tradition , when the latin church charged it with heresie . and certainly i may be allowed to argue from an undeniable instance as i shall believe it to be , till i see the answer to it which mr. m. promises in his conclusion . before he comes to that , he lets me know ( p. . ) that himself and several others , upon comparing my two propositions together , had found a contradiction in them , and so they had once more dr. st. against dr. st. this is as witty an observation as the author of pax vobis had made upon me ; who , because i had proved from st. paul's words that iupiter was sometimes taken among the heathens for the true god , from thence wisely infers , that i am for introducing paganism , and hardly believe another life ; but this is so gross and ridiculous a calumny , that it hardly deserves to be taken notice of . but i pray let me see this controversie-juggle , as mr. m. phrases it ; and how dr. st. is set up against dr. st. thus it lies : in my first proposition i seem to affirm that the tradition of all christian churches is abound of absolute certainty for the admittance of scripture ; and in the second i would infer that tradition is no infallible conveyance of matters of faith ; but the belief of the scripture is a matter of faith. a rare discovery ! methinks , mr. g. appears very well qualified to set up for a controvertist , and much such a one as those who formerly set dr. st. against dr. st. but the author of the first letter obsrves , that i spare my own pains , and put the proof upon you ; & mr. m. confesses , that the occasion of the conference was , that you affirmed that protestants could not shew any ground of absolute certainty for their faith. therefore , since you own tradition to be an infallible way of conveying faith , i desired to know how you could deny that we had any ground for absolute certainty of our faith as to the word of god , when the tradition we go upon is so much larger and firmer than any you can bring for the points of faith in difference between us . but then as to your way of explaining tradition not with respect to the books of scripture , but to particular doctrines of faith , proposed the second particular to you to make good , viz. that the tradition from father to son is an infallible conveyance of matters of faith , notwithstanding the greek church is charged by you with errour which adhered to tradition . if therefore you do own the infallibility of tradition you have no reason to deny that we have any ground of certainty , who have a more unquestionable tradition for the scriptures , than you can have for your distinguishing doctrines , or the matters of controversie between us . yet , how can you esteem your way of tradition an infallible conveyance of matters of faith , when you charge the greek church with heresie , which adhered to tradition ? thus i leave any reader to judge , where the appearance of a contradiction lies . there remains nothing more in either of the letters which i can think requires an answer ; unless it be that i charge mr. m. with using arts to get mr. t. to sign your copy . i do confess that when he told me mr. m. had spoken to him that they might meet and compare and sign each others copies , without acquainting me with it , or desiring that copy which was taken for me , ( and was read aloud till the company rose ) and that he had said that i gave out false copies , i did look upon these as arts ; but if he doth not like this name ( nor mr. t. ) i can soon find out another . and the matter of fact is owned by mr. m. in these words : meeting accidentally with mr. t. in the street , i told him i heard you complained that mr. g.'s papers of the conference were false , and therefore i desired him to compare his copy with that which was written for mr. g. that we might see whether mr. g. or his amanuensis had dealt fairly or not . here is the very thing confessed which i complained of , viz. that , without acquainting me with it , he would have had mr. t. to have compared his copy with theirs , after he confess i had complained that the copy they gave out was false . and if mr. t. had complied with this proposition , and after comparing had signed your copy , what triumphs had then been made , that mr. t. himself had owned your copy against me ! and for this matter i need not make any insinuation , for the thing it self is clear . the only way for your justification had been , when you heard of my complaint , to have brought or sent your copy to me to have examined and compared it ; but i say still , it was very unjustisiable for you to give out a copy for the true account of the conference , which was never read nor compared , and i think i have now made appear to have been both false and imperfect . and now , having finished the main parts of my answer , i must make a review , that nothing which may be thought material may escape me . for that is the constant method of some men to cry up what is unanswered for unanswerable , although it were only passed over as not deserving it . i did say in my former letter , that you took great care in the conference it self , to keep me from expecting any great ingenuity after it . the author of the first letter ▪ desires information what that care was . i am very unwilling to expose your methods of managing conferences ; but i desire that gentleman to be present at any of them , and he will find satisfaction enough . but mr. m. as a proof of your fairness , insists ( p. . ) on your desire to put things into writing . will mr. m. say that you carried your self fairly and ingenuously as to the manner of the conference ? that you gave me no interruptions ? used no fleering behaviour ? that you never offered to put things down against my sense , nor hindered me in setting it down ? that you made no unhandsom reflections in the interlocutory part ? if charity be any part of ingenuity , you shewed it abundantly : for , when you spake of churches in communion with rome , mr. t. said , what! and all other churches must be in gehenna ? you replied with great charity and ingenuity , that many a true word was spoke in jest . if you are your self in earnest , i pray let us know for what reason you damn us all ? is it for want of certainty in our faith ? that is very far from being proved by you . and if you could prove it in your way , for all that i can see , you will damn almost all in the church of rome as well as all out of it . for , if this oral tradition be the only certain way of faith , and all are damn'd who want such certainty , what will become of all those in the church of rome , who believe as little of the infallibility of oral tradition as we do ? but , to return to your ingenuity in the conference , i observe , that mr. m. onely mentions this proposal of putting the conference in writing , to shew your ingenuity ; he saith not a word of it as to your manner of managing it . and truly , i then thought he was ashamed of it ; but whether he were or not , i am sure he had cause for it . he confesses there was noise , wrangling , confusions , interruptions , heat , passion , personal reflexions ( p. , , . ) and all this while you were very fair and ingenuous , very meek and candid , very soft and obliging ; not in the least boisterous , impertinent or provoking . which all , who have been present at your conferences , will set their hands to . alas , sir ! how much are you wronged by being charged with disingenuity in the conference ? you are onely forced sometimes to overcome your natural repugnance to it , as mr. m. saith he was in writing his letter to me . there is one thing mr. m. frequently insists upon , which i must give an answer to ; viz. that i was glad to put an end to the first dispute ; that the issue of it was such , that you could have no temptation for forgery in the account of it , which is not greatly for my credit , ( p. . ) that i was beholding to mr. t. for breaking it off , ( p. . ) that i was as little pleased with the true copies as with the false ones , ( p. . ) that the conference it self was as little to my satisfaction as the worst account of it , ( p. . ) these are very fine insinuations , i must not say artificial ; for mr. m. will no more like a word taken from arts , than the word it self . if he means , that i was very little pleased with the manner of your conference , i do freely confess it ; and none who have been present at your other conferences will blame me for it . but if he thinks that i was unsatisfied with the grounds of certainty which i gave , i utterly deny it . for i still assert the same thing , and abide by the answer i then gave ; and do still hold that the universal testimony of all christian churches is a sufficient ground of absolute certainty to us as to the rule of faith. and this is an answer , i am so fully satisfied in , that neither then nor now do i fear any objections against it . but i would not be drawn off from the main point to another debate ; and because i resolved to stick there , i thought it most reasonable that mr. t. should be yielded to , for breaking it off at the point in question ; which was not about the true parts of the catholick church , but about the true ground of certainty we had for our faith. and when mr. t. declared he had full satisfaction as to that , what reason had i to go any farther ? as to the truest copies of the conference , i was not forward to disperse them ; not out of any mistrust of the answers i gave ; but because they contained onely short heads and general answers ; for those who desire to see an account of a conference , expect to see a relation of all that passed , or at least of all material passages relating to it ; and therefore onely a general representation of it would seem dry and jejune , and not answer the expectation they had of the relation of a conference . but , as to the matter it self , so far as it is truly set down ( of which i have now given a fuller account ) i do abide by it . and , if my credit suffer by it , i do assure you , it is not by reason of any objection mr. m. hath made against it , or any that i foresee can be made . mr. m. chargeth me with disingenuous and unchristian proceeding toward you , ( p. . ) this is a home charge , and not much indeed for my credit , if he can in the least make it good . but if not , i leave him to judge where the disingenuous and unchristian proceeding lies ; and to remember his application of the mote and the beam , ( p. . ) whereon is the heavy charge grounded ? why , forsooth , when i heard of false and imperfect copies , i ought to have sent to you , to know whether they were given out by you . what! when they came to my hands from those very persons to whom you gave them ? but , i ought to have shewn you the errours of them and desired their amendment . it was , indeed , a very likely and hopefull way of vindicating my self . when i knew from the very persons to whom you spake , what boasts you had made of your victory ; and what publick places you had read the copies in , it was a very probable thing , that if i had shewed you the falsity of them , you would have gone to those very places and persons and told them , gentlemen , i must beg all your pardons , for i communicated false copies to you , and told you idle and lying stories about the conference ; for i have been since with dr. st. and he hath demonstrated to me , that my copy was not true , although it were my own copy , and that which i delivered to you for very true . do you think , sir , you could have overcome your natural repugnance so much as to have yielded to this method of satisfaction ? if not , when i was assured so many copies were dispersed in town and countrey , which you could not recall ( if you intended it ; ) when i was called upon time after time by my friends ; and it was told me , something must be done towards my vindication ; what could i doe more proper or effectual than to publish that letter ; which hath so much provoked mr. m. as to make him overcome his natural repugnance , and to appear in print ? but yet there are other circumstances which make my proceeding neither ingenuous nor christian. as that , the letter was published so long after . that shews how unwilling i was to be brought to it ; and nothing but mere necessity could have overcome my natural repugnance , in such a case . for , as the authour of the former letter well observes , i love to spare my own pains . but i took the opportunity of your absence . therein mr. m. did me injury . for , truly sir , it was perfectly the same thing to me , whether you were at lond. or west-chest . nay , the argument would hold the other way , if it were true . for i heard of your talking of going to ch. soon after the conference ; and that you told persons you were just going ; and i did believe you to be there , till i heard of some other conferences of yours . i do not think my self bound to enquire after your stays or removes ; but i know how you had done me wrong , and therefore mr. m. can have no reason to blame me for doing what was necessary for my own vindication . mr. m. charges me , ( p. . ) with having too mean an opinion of you . if i be to blame in this , i hope you will take care to rectifie it : but mr. m. hath not done much towards it . however , he takes a notable advantage , as he thinks , from hence : we , saith he , will be contented to pass for weak and ignorant ; and i shall be obliged to shew by whom you may be protected from errour . a very well compounded business ? but what if it be not in my power or any ones else to make you infallible ? did i ever promise or undertake any such thing ? or set up infallible bills ? when i doe so , then come to me for such directions . we never pretend to make any persons infallible , but to put them into a certain way to be saved ; which we think is much better . and if men be honest and sincere in their endeavours to know and doe the will of god , we have the word of god for it , that they are in the certain way to salvation ; but if they could be kept from all errour and yet not be sincerely good , can faith save him ? jam. . . what doth it profit , my brethren , though a man say he hath faith ( even infallible faith ) and have not works ? i have long wonder'd at this kind of missionary zeal , as mr. m. speaks , ( p. . ) against errour , and the want of i know not what infallibility ; when so much less zeal is shewed against mens passions and vices ; whereas the vertues of the mind and of a good life are far more excellent and usefull to mankind than being kept from involuntary errours . but , saith mr. m. it is a most uncomfortable thing to be shewn , that you ought not to trust your reason , and to be told y●u ought . in answer to this suggestion i will tell you a very comfortable thing , and that is , the allowance god makes for ignorance and weakness . for , if god will not charge involuntary errours upon us , we may think our selves as safe , as if we were infallible . what reason we have , we ought to make use of for the best purposes ; but if our reason fail us , the goodness of god will not if we be sincere . yet mr. m. cannot get it out of his head , but , that it is my task to give some distinguishing mark for the finding out those christians on whose tradition we may safely rely for the reception of the holy scriptures . how often must i repeat it , that it is none of my task ? and that , if the testimony of all christian churches be a sufficient ground of certainty , i have no reason to examine farther ? as for instance , suppose upon a lord mayor's day , i ask of all the several liveries and companies , and other people , whether my lord mayor be gone by ; and they all unanimously agree , that he is ; have not i reason to be satisfied by this universal consent ? ay but , sir , saith mr. m. you are to consider , that there was a great diversity in the companies you met with ; there was my lord mayor's own company , and many besides , some whereof had no charters confirmed to them , i desire you to tell me , which of the companies had charters and which not ; for my part , i will believe none but the testimony of those companies which could produce their charters . but , say i , if our dispute was about legal companies , you say very well ; but since i aim at no more , than knowing , whether my lord mayor be gone by or not ; i think the testimony of them all is sufficient , whether incorporated or not ; whether they were of the orange or blew regiment , or any other people in the street ; when i find them all to agree in the same thing , i have no reason to question the certainty of it . i will not think so poorly of your vnderstandings , as to think it needs application . but i must think so , if yet you think it my task to find out a distinguishing mark between churches , when the universal testimony of all christian churches is sufficient for the certainty of our faith ; which mr. m. so often grants was the occasion and subject of the conference . and now there is nothing remaining to be answered in mr. m's letter to me , but his learned discourses about verbal conferences and coffee-houses ; which will require no long answer from me . as to verbal conferences , they depend so much on the temper , ingenuity , presence of mind , and particular skill in controversie which persons have , that no certain rule can be given about them . they may doe good , or hurt , be usefull or mischievous , as the persons and circumstances are . and it is not the setting down some general heads can prevent the mischief of false reports , as i have had too large and fresh experience of it . which ought to make every one more carefull what sort of persons he meets with upon such occasions . i do not see , how any man can be secure as to his reputation after them , if they are such as run into companies , frequent coffee-houses , and are apt to boast and to talk much of themselves ; as that at such a time , saith one , i disputed with such a man and these were my arguments , and he gave such trifling answers to them , that i wonder he should have any reputation . and to convince you , look ye gentlemen , here are the notes of such a conference , do you mark what a pitifull answer this is ; and then , when he was required to go farther he refused , and pretended business and want of time ; so that upon the whole matter , i conclude him to be a mere trifler . all this while the person concerned is at a distance , and knows nothing of all this ; but he is abused , and reproached at the mercy of such persons who look on an officious lie as a venial sin ; especially when it is thought to serve a good cause . and when the injured person comes to understand how he hath been used , he hath no way left but to publish a vindication of himself ; and so verbal conferences , must end in writing controversies ; unless some effectual way could be found out to prevent mens partial and disingenuous representing them afterwards . there is too great reason to believe that those who are most impertinent in a dispute will be so after it ; and great talkers are commonly great boasters ; especially when they hope to recommend themselves by their pretended victories and their missionary zeal of disputing in coffee-houses . a thing which mr. m. observes ( p. . ) the children of the reformation are little acquainted with . and i do not like the mother of these children a jot the less for it . for religion is a grave and serious thing and ought to be treated with a respect due to the concernments of it . i am far from being a friend to any seditious , idle , or profane discourses in those places ; but yet methinks it looks very oddly to turn places of diversion into schools of disputing . and if such a missionary zeal prevails , i suppose the keepers of those houses will give little thanks to the promoters of it ; for men do not love to drink their warm liquour in mood and figure ; nor to lace their coffee with controversies . mr. m. represents me ( p. . ) as one that thought it a crime to go to coffee-houses . which is a notable device to make all the gentlemen who frequent them my enemies . whereas i onely mentioned your reading your paper in coffee-houses , and there boasting of your conference , wherein he might be sure i would not be present to contradict him . but this is a distinguishing mark of mr. m's ingenuity . i shall mention one more , and conclude this letter . mr. m. confesses many lies are told in coffee-houses , ( p. . ) and i have some reason to believe him . but if , saith he , all places are to be avoided , wherein lies are told i am afraid dr. st. would run the hazard of being silenced for want of a pulpit which might be ventured on . this is such an obliging complement to the london clergy to compare their pulpits to coffee-houses for lying , that it is beyond my skill to return it . but if there be so little truth in our pulpits as mr. m. suggests ( which i am sure he can never prove ) yet the constant loyalty which hath been preached there , might have made mr. m. a little more civil to them , than to compare them to coffee-houses ; wherein himself complains of seditious , idle and profane discourses . i am , sir , your humble servant , e. s. london , apr. . there is in the press , and will speedily be published , an answer to the reasons of edward sclate● , minister of ●u●ney , for his conversion ●o the roman catholick faith and communion : sold by h. mortlock , at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e v. her●s . blacklo●n . a papist mis-represented and represented, or, a twofold character of popery the one containing a sum of the superstitions, idolatries, cruelties, treacheries, and wicked principles of the popery which hath disturb'd this nation above an hundred and fifty years, fill'd it with fears and jealousies, and deserves the hatred of all good christians : the other laying open that popery which the papists own and profess, with the chief articles of their faith, and some of the principle grounds and reasons, which hold them in that religion / by j.l. one of the church of rome ; to which is added, a book entituled, the doctrines and practices of the church of rome, truly represented, in answer to the aforesaid book by a prote gother, john, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing g estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a papist mis-represented and represented, or, a twofold character of popery the one containing a sum of the superstitions, idolatries, cruelties, treacheries, and wicked principles of the popery which hath disturb'd this nation above an hundred and fifty years, fill'd it with fears and jealousies, and deserves the hatred of all good christians : the other laying open that popery which the papists own and profess, with the chief articles of their faith, and some of the principle grounds and reasons, which hold them in that religion / by j.l. one of the church of rome ; to which is added, a book entituled, the doctrines and practices of the church of rome, truly represented, in answer to the aforesaid book by a prote gother, john, d. . stillingfleet, edward, - . p. re-printed by a.c. & s.h. ..., dublin : . reproduction of original in cambridge university library. attributed to john gother. cf. nuc pre- . imperfect: the doctrines and practices of the church of rome ... by edward stillingfleet, lacking in filmed copy. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -- controversial literature. catholic church -- apologetic works. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a papist mis-represented and represented : or , a twofold character of popery . the one containing a sum of the superstitions , idolatries , cruelties , treacheries , and wicked principles of that popery which hath disturb'd this nation above an hundred and fifty years ; fill'd it with fears and jealousies , and deserves the hatred of all good christians . the other laying open that popery which the papists own and profess ; with the chief articles of their faith , and some of the principal grounds and reasons , which hold them in that religion . narraverunt mihi iniqui fabulationes ; sed non ut lex tua , psal. . v. : by i. l. one of the church of rome . to which is added , a book entituled , the doctrines and practices of the church of rome , truly represented . in answer to the aforesaid book . by a protestant of the church of england . and for the readers better convenience , in the re-printing , it is so ordered , that every chapter of the latter immediately follows that of the former , to which it is an answer . licensed according to order . dublin , re-printed by a. c. & s. h. for the society of stationers . . a papist mis-represented and represented : or , a twofold character of popery . to which is added , the doctrine and practices of the church of rome , truly represented , &c the introduction . the father of lies is the author of mis-representing . he first made the experiment of this black art in paradise ; having no surer way of bringing god's precept into contempt , and making our first parents transgress , than by mis-representing the command , which their maker had laid upon them . and so unhappily successful he was in this his first attempt , that this has been his chief stratagem ever since , in all business of difficulty and concern : esteeming that his best means for preserving and propagating wickedness amongst men , by which he first won them to lose their innocence . and therefore there has nothing of good yet come into the world , nothing been sent from heaven , but what has met with this opposition ; the common enemy having imploy'd all his endeavours of bringing it into discredit , and rendring it infamous , by mis-representing . of this there are frequent instances in the old law , and more in the new. the truth of it was experienc'd on the person of christ himself , who , tho' he was the son of god , the immaculate lamb , yet was he not out of the reach of calumny , and exempt from being mis-represented . see how he was painted by malicious men , the sons of belial , ministers of satan ; a prophane and wicked man , a breaker of the sabbath , a glutton , a friend and companion of publicans and sinners , a fool , a conjurer , a traytor , a seducer , a tumultuous person , a samaritan , full of the devil ; he hath belzebub , and by the prince of the devils , casteth he out devils , ( mark . . ) there being no other way of frighting the people from embracing the truth , following the son of god , but by thus disfiguring him to the multitude , reporting light to be darkness , and god to be the devil . the disciples of christ every where met with the like encounters . stephen had the people stirred up against him , because they heard he had spoke blasphemous words against moses , and against god , ( acts . . ) paul also and silas , for exceedingly troubling the city , ( acts . . ) iason also with them , because he had turned the world upside down , and did contrary to the decrees of caesar , ( acts . , . ) paul again , because he did teach all men every where against the people , and polluted the holy place , ( acts . . ) and because he was a pestilent fellow , and a mover of sedition among all the iews throughout the world : to which the iews also assented , saying that these things were so , ( acts . , ) neither did these calumnies , these wicked mis-representations stop here ; he that said , the disciple is not above his master , if they have called the master of the house belzebub ; how much more shall they call them of his houshold ? did not only foretell what was to happen to his followers then present , but also to the faithful that were to succeed them , and to his church in future ages , they being all to expect the like fate ; that tho' they should be never so just to god and their neighbour , upright in their ways , and live in the fear of god , and the observance of his laws ; yet must they certainly be reviled and hated by the world , made a by-word to the people , and have the repute of ideots , seducers , and be a scandal to all nations . and has not this been verified in all ages ; see what was the state of christians in the primitive times , when as yet vice had not corrupted the purity of the gospel . 't is almost impossible to believe in what contempt they were , and how utterly abominated . tertullian , who was a sharer of a great part , gives us so lamentable a account of the christians in his time , that 't is able to move compassion in stones . he tells us , so many malicious slanders were dispers'd abroad , concerning the manner of their worship ; and their whole doctrine describ'd , not only to be folly , and meer toys , but also to be grounded on most hellish principles , and so to be full of impieties , that the heathens believ'd a man could not make profession of christianity , without being tainted with all sorts of crimes ; without being an enemy to the gods , to princes , to the laws , to good manners , and to nature . hence they conceiv'd such prejudice against them , and they were render'd so impious in the opinion of the vulgar ; that whatsoever accusations were brought in , tho' never so false and malicious ; whatsoever villanies were laid to their charge ; all was welcom to the enraged multitude , to which nothing seem'd incredibie concerning those , that were thus already odious . upon this it was , that they were brought in guilty of atheism , of superstition , of idolatry , of cruelty , of sedition ; of conspiracies , of treasons : and bloody persecutions were rais'd against them , to which the people were exasperated by fears and iealousies : quod pontifices , ( as spondanus says ) gentilitiae superstitionis christianos more solito , calumniis circumvenissent , quasi aliquid contra imperium molirentur ; because the priests did use to divulge it abroad , that the christians were plotting against the government . nor were these crimes the whole sum of their charge ; for besides , every publick calamity and misfortune that befell the commonwealth , was thrown upon them . if (a) daphnes temple was consum'd by lightning from heaven , yet must the christians be condemn'd as the incendiaries : if (b) the city was laid in ashes , it must be reveng'd on the christians ; nay (c) tertullian has it , if tiber overflowed , if nile watered not the plains , if heaven stop'd its course , and did not pour its rains here below ; if there were earth-quakes , famine , or plague ; they would immediately cry out , christianos ad leones , cast the christians to the lions , as the cause of all the calamities that arrived in the world , and all the evils that people suffer'd . and now the christians being thus reputed profane in their worship , enemies to the government , and the undoubted occasions of every misfortune throughout the empire ; 't is easie to conceive , in what contempt they were , and how detestable amongst the heathens ; but because none can relate it so to the life , as (d) tertullian has done , i 'le set it down in his own words , as translated by (e) dr. howel , in his history of the world. is it not strange ( says he ) that the hatred wherewith this name is pursued in such manner , blinds the minds of most men , that when they witness the probity of a christian , they mix in their discourse as a reproach , that he hath embraced this religion . one saith ; truly , he of whom you speak is an honest man , if he were not a christian , and his life would be free from blame . another ; do you know such a one , who had the reputation of a wise and discreet man ? he is lately turn'd christian. ( again ) these people , by an extreme blindness of hatred , speak to the advantage of the name christian , when they strive to render it odious . for , say they , how pleasant , and of what a good humour , was that woman ? how sociable and jovial was that man ? 't is pity they should be christians . so they impute the amendment of their lives to the profession of christianity . some of them also purchase the aversion they carry against the name christian , which we bear , with the price of what is most precious to them ; rather desiring to lose the sweetness of life , tranquility of mind , and all sorts of commodities , than to see in their houses that which they hate . a man , who heretofore had his mind full of jealousie , can no longer endure the company of his wife , what assurance soever he has of her chastity , after once he perceives her to be turn'd christian ; and parts from her now , when her actions full of modesty have extinguish'd all suspicions , wherewith he was heretofore mov'd . a father , who of a long time endur'd the disobedience of his heathenish son , resolves to take from him the hope of succeeding him in his inheritance , for turning christian , when at the same time , executing his commands without murmuring . a master that used his slave gently , when his carriage gave him some cause of distrust , now puts him far from him , for being a christian , when he hath most assurance of his fidelity . 't is committing a crime to correct the disorders of a mans life , by the motions of a holy conversion to the christian faith ; and the good which is produc'd by so happy a change , works not so powerfully in the minds of men , as the hatred they have conceiv'd against us . indeed this hatred is strange ; and when i consider , that the name of christian only , makes it be so , i would willingly know , how a name can be criminal , and how a simple word can be accused ? thus was christianity wholly infamous amongst the heathens , contemn'd and detested by all ; and where lies were in credit , calumnies and slanders confirm'd and back'd by authority , there was no other crime but truth . and 't was these calumnies , these false accusations ( invented to cry down the christian religion , ) oblig'd tertullian to write his apology , wherein he declar'd to the world , that christianity was nothing like that , which the heathens imagin'd it to be : that idolatry , superstition , impiety , cruelty , treachery , conspiracies , &c. was none of their doctrine , but condemn'd and detested by them ; that these crimes were only the malicious inventions of the heathenish priests , who finding themselves unable to withstand the force of christianity , had no other way to preserve themselves in repute , and the people in their errour , than by forming an ugly , odious , and most horrid vizor , a damnable scheme of religion , than holding this forth to the world , and crying out , this is the religion of the christians , these are their principles ; behold their ignorance , their stupidity , their profaneness ; behold their insolence , their villanies , a people unsufferable in a commonwealth , enemies to their country and their prince : and thus representing it as monstrous as they pleas'd , they brought an odium upon as many as own'd that name , and condemn'd them for follies and crimes , that were no where , but in their own imagination . and 't was not only in tertullians time , that christianity lay under this scandal , but also in after ages : and therefore , as for the vindication of the christian profession , he was forc'd to apologize for his time ; so did after him st. cyprian , arnobius , and many other ecclesiastical writers ; nay , and under christian emperors , the calumnies of the heathens yet being urg'd with much vigour and confidence , orosius was oblig'd to write his history , and st. augustine his city of god , in defence of the faith and doctrine of christ. and now , when by the propagation of christianity , and the laborious endeavours of her professors , heathenism was pretty well extinct ; yet was not the mouth of malice stopp'd ; the same calumnies , which had been invented by the infidels , being taken up by evil christians . no one going out from the communion of the church of christ , but what did , by reviving old scandals , ( and the addition of fresh ones , ) endeavour to make her infamous , and blacken her with such crimes , as could be thought most convenient for rendring her odious to all . it being look'd upon by as many as ever went out of her , the best means to justifie their separation , and to gain to themselves the credit of orthodox christians ; to paint her out in all the antichristian colours , and represent her as hellish , as wickedness could make her . 't is strange how much she suffer'd in this point from the manichees , and from the donatists , and how much pains it cost saint augustine , to prove their accusations to be meer calumnies , principally intended to raise prejudices in the minds of the people against her ; that so being convinc'd by these hellish artifices , of her teaching unsound and profane doctrine , wicked principles , and humane inventions instead of faith , might never think of going to her , to learn the truth ; nor even so much as suspect her to be the church of christ. this , saint augustine complains , was the chief cause of his continuing in the error of the manichees so long ; and that he impugn'd with so much violence this church . and therefore , after he was come to the knowledge of the truth , he discover'd this to the world for the undeceiving others , who were caught in the same snare , making it part of his confessions , confess . l. . c. . p. . ) when i came to discover , says he , that — i mingled ioy and blushes , and was asham'd , that i had now for so many years been barking and railing , not against the catholick faith , but only against the fictions of my carnal conceits . for so temerarious and impious was i , that , those things which i ought first to have learned from them by enquiry , i first charg'd upon them by accusation ; readier to impose falshoods than to be inform'd of the truth , — and thus i so blindly accused the catholick church ; now sufficiently clear'd to me that she taught not the opinion , i so vehemently persecuted . and this he did , deluded and deceiv'd by the manichees . and now since 't is certain , that this has not been the case of saint augustine alone , but of as many almost , as have given ear to the deserters of this church ; nay , is at this day the case of infinite numbers , who following that great father , when as yet in his errors ; do not enquire , how this thing is believ'd or understood by her , but insultingly oppose all ; as if so understood , as they imagine ; not making any difference betwixt what the catholick church teaches , and what they think she teaches : and so believing her to be guilty of as many absurdities , follies , impieties , &c. as the heathens did of old : 't is evident , there 's as much need now of apologies , as ever there was in tertellian's or s. austin's time : not apologies to vindicate what is really her faith and doctrine ; but rather to clear her from such superstitions , profaneness , and wicked principles , as are maliciously or ignorantly charg'd upon her . and tho' the number of calumnies , the in-sincerity of adversaries , the obstinacy of a byass'd education render a performance in this kind , a just task for a tertullian's , or st. augustine's hand ; yet because i find no such eminent pen engag'd in this design at present ; and the shewing the true religion in its own colours , seems a duty incumbent on every one that 's a lover of truth ; i 'le endeavour to pull off the vizor from suffering christianity , and apologize for the cotholick faith ; that faith , i mean , maintained by those primitive fathers , with so much vigour and zeal ; which being first planted in the head city of the world by st. ●eter , hath been propagated throughout the universe , and derived down to us by many christian nations , in communion with that see , under the protection of the holy ghost , and the charge of a chief pastor , which beginning in that great apostle , has continued in a visible succession to these our days . this faith it is , for which at present i design to make an apology , which having been in all ages violently oppos'd , does at this time most wrongfully suffer , under calumnies and false imputations . i 'le endeavour therefore to separate these calumnies and scandals , from what is really the faith and doctrine of that church ; i 'le take off the black and dirt , which has been thrown upon her ; and setting her forth in her genuine complection , let the world see how much fairer she is , than she 's painted ; and how much she 's unlike that monster , which is shewn for her . and because the members of this church are commonly known by the name of papists ; i think i cannot take a more sincere , open , and compendious way , in order to the compleating this design , than by drawing forth a double character of a papist : the one expressing a papist in those very colours as he is painted in the imagination of the vulgar , foul , black and antichristian ; with the chief articles of his imagined belief , and reputed principles of his profession . the other representing a papist , whose faith and exercise of his religion , is according to the direction and command of his church . that so , these two being thus set together , their difference and disproportion may be clearly discerned , and a discovery made , how unlike calumny is from truth ; and how different a papist really is , from what he 's said to be . the former character is of a papist mis-represented ; the other of a papist represented . the former is a papist so deform'd and monstrous , that it justly deserves the hatred of as many as own christianity ; 't is a papist that has disturb'd this nation now above an hundred years with fears and jealousies ; threatning it continually with fire and massacres , and whose whole design has been , to rob the sovereign of his crown , and the subject of his liberty and property . 't is a papist , that is so abominable , so malicious , so unsufferable in any civil government , that , for my part , i detest him from my heart ; i conceiv'd an hatred against him , and all his , from my education , when as yet a protestant ; and now , being a roman catholick , i am not in the least reconcil'd to him , nor his principles , but hate him yet worse . i am so far from thinking the laws too severe against such popish recusants , that i could wish a far greater severity were executed against them , their favourers , and all such as make men so sottishly religious . and if to be a protestant , nothing more be requisite , than to protest against such popery , to hate and detest it ; i think my self , and all roman catholicks , as good protestants , as any whatsoever throughout his majesties dominions . and i dare engage , that not only as many roman catholicks , as under the name of papists have severely smarted in this nation , for being the professors of such kind of popery , but also that all roman catholick nations in the world shall subscribe to the condemnation of all such popish principles and doctrines , shall joyn with all good protestants for the extinguishing it , with all that profess or practice it , and utter rooting it out from his majesties three kingdoms , and the whole universe . the other papist is one , that lives and believes according to what is prescrib'd in the council of trent , in catechisms set forth by catholicks , and other spiritual books , for the direction and instruction of all in their communion , whose faith and doctrine i have here set down , with some grounds and reasons of it , and will so leave it to apologize for it self . in drawing out the character of the former , i have quoted no authors , but have describ'd him exactly according to the apprehension i had of a papist , fram'd by me when i was a protestant ; with the addition only of some few points , which have been violently charg'd against me by some intimate friends of late , to shew the unreasonableness of my choice , after the quitting of that communion . the latter is wholly copied out from the papist that i am now ; being the sum of what i was taught , when reconcil'd to the church of rome , and which after sixteen years conversation with men of that communion , in hearing their sermons , in being present at their catechising , in reading their books , and discoursing with them , i have found to be their doctrine . i have done both , i hope , with sincerity and truth , and without passion . for as my endeavours have been , that my religion should lose nothing by lies , so neither do i desire it should gain by them ; and did i but know of any thing in the following papers , that has any relation to that unchristian artifice , i would strike it out immediately . and do here oblige my self , upon information , either from friend or adversary , to acknowledge the mistake , as it shall be made appear , and make a publick recantation . but it is time , we should see what these papists are . an answer to the introduction . the introduction consists of two parts , i. a general complaint of the papists being misrepresented among us . ii. an account of the method he hath taken to clear them from these misrepresentions . i. as to the first ; whether it be just , or not , must be examin'd in the several particulars . but here we must consider , whether it serves the end it is designed for in this place , which is , to gain the reader 's good opinion of their innocency : not meerly because they complain so much of being injured , but because the best men in all times have been mis-represented ; as he proves at large in this introduction , from several examples of the old and new testament , but especially of christ and his apostles , and the primitive christians . but it is observable , that when bp. iewel began his excellent apology for the church of england , with a complaint much of the same nature , and produced the very same examples , his adversary would by no means allow it to have any force , being , as he called it , exordium commune , which might be used on both sides , and therefore could be proper to neither . and although it be reasonable only for those to complain of being mis-represented , who having truth on their side , do notwithstanding suffer under the imputation of error ; yet it is possible for those who are very much mistaken , to complain of being mis-represented ; and while they go about to remove the misrepresentations of others , to make new ones of their own . and as the best men. and the best things , have been mis-represented ; so other men have been as apt to complain of it : and the worst things are as much mis-represented , when they are made to appear not so bad as they are . for evil is as truly mis represented under the appearance of good , as good under the appearance of evil ; and it is hard to determine whether hath done the greater mischief . so that if the father of lies be the author of mis-representing , ( as the introduction begins ) we must have a care of him both ways . for when he tried this black art in paradise , ( as our author speaks ) it was both by mis-representing the command , and the danger of trangressing it . he did not only make the command appear otherwise than it was ; but he did very much lessen the punishment of disobedience , and by that means deluded our first parents into that sin and misery , under which their posterity still suffers . which ought to be a caution to them , how dangerous it is to break the law of god under the fairest colour and pretences ; and that they should not be easily imposed upon by false glosses , and plausible representations , though made by such as therein pretend to be angels of light. but although the father of lies be the author of mis-representing : yet we have no reason to think , but that if he were to plead his own cause to mankind , he would very much complain of being mis-represented by them ; and even in this respect , when they make him the father of those lies which are their own inventions . and can that be a certain argument of truth , which may as well be used by the father of lies ? and the great instruments he hath made use of in deceiving and corrupting mankind , have been as forward as any to complain of being mis-represented . the true reason is , because no great evil can prevail in the world , unless it be represented otherwise than it is ; and all men are not competent judges of the colours of good and evil ; therefore when the designs of those who go about to deceive , begin to be laid open , they then betake themselves to the fairest representations they can make of themselves , and hope that many will not see through their pretences . if i had a mind to follow our author's method , i could make as long a deduction of instances of this kind . but i shall content my self with some few examples of those who are allowed on both sides to have been guilty of great errors and corruptions . the arrians pleaded they were mis-represented , when they were taken for enemies to christ's divinity ; for all that they contended for , was only such a moment of time , as would make good the relation between father and son. the pelagians , with great success for some time ( and even at rome ) complained , that they were very much mis-represented , as enemies to god's grace ; whereas they owned and asserted the manifold grace of god ; and were only enemies to mens idleness , and neglect of their duties . the nestorians gave out , that they never intended to make two persons in christ , as their adversaries charged them ; but all their design was to avoid blasphemy , in calling the blessed virgin the mother of god ; and whatever went beyond this , was their adversaries mis-representations , and not their own opinions . the eu●ychians thought themselves very hardly dealt with , for saying , there was but one nature in christ ; they did not mean thereby ( as they said ) to destroy the properties of the humane nature , but only to assert that its subsistence was swallowed up by the divine ; and of all persons , those have no reason to blame them , who suppose the properties of one substance may be united to another . even the gentile idolaters , when they were charged by the christians , that they worshipped stocks and stones , complained , they were mis-represented ; for they were not such ideots , to take things for gods , which had neither life , nor sense , nor motion in them . and when they were charged with worshipping other gods as they did the supream ; they desired their sense might not be taken from common prejudices , or vulgar practices , but from the doctrine of their philosophers ; and they owned a sovereign worship due to him that was chief ; and a subordinate and relative to some celestial beings , whom they made application to as mediators between him and them . must all these complaints now be taken for granted ? what then becomes of the reputation of general councils , or the primitive christians ? but as , if it were enough to be accused , none would be innocent ; so none would be guilty , if it were enough to complain of being mis-represented . therefore in all complaints of this nature , it is necessary to come to particulars ; and to examine with care and diligence the matters complained of , and then to give judgment in the case . i am glad to find our author professing so much sincerity and truth without passion ; and i do assure him i shall follow what he professes : for the cause of our church is such , as needs neither tricks nor passion to defend it ; and therefore i shall endeavour to state the matters in difference , with all the clearness and calmness that may be ; and i shall keep close to his method and representations , without digressions , or provoking reflections . ii. but i must declare my self very much unsatisfied with the method he hath taken to clear his party from these mis-representations . for , . he takes upon him to draw a double character of a papist ; and in the one he pretends to follow a certain rule , but not in the other ; which is not fair and ingenuous . as to the one , he saith , he follows the council of trent , and their allowed spiritual books and catechisms : and we find no fault with this . but why must the other part then be drawn by fancy , or common prejudices , or ignorant mistakes ? have we no rule , whereby the judgment of our church is to be taken ? are not our articles as easie to be had and understood , as the decrees and canons of the council of trent ? i will not ask , how the council of trent comes to be the rule and measure of doctrine to any here , where it was never received ? but i hope i may , why our representations are not to be taken from the sense of our church , as theirs from the council of trent ? if he saith , his design was to remove common prejudices , and vulgar mistakes ; it is easie to answer , if they are contrary to the doctrine of our church , we utterly disown them . we know very well there are persons , who have so false a notion of popery , that they charge the rites and customs of our church with it : but we pity their weakness and folly , and are far from defending such mis-representations . but that which we adhere to , is the doctrine and sense of our church , as it is by law established ; and what representations are made agreeable thereto , i undertake to defend , and no other . but if a person take the liberty to lay on what colours he pleases on one side , it will be no hard matter to take them off in the other , and then to say , how much fairer is our church than she is painted ! it is an easie , but not so allowable a way of disputing , for the same person to make the objections and answers too ; for he may so model and frame the arguments by a little art , that the answers may appear very full and sufficient ; whereas if they had been truly represented , they would be found very lame and defective . . he pretends to give an account why he quotes no authors for his mis-representations , which is very unsatisfactory , viz. that he hath d●scribed the papist therein , exactly acco●ding to the apprehension he had of him when he was a protestant . but how can we tell what sort of protestant he was ; nor how well he was instructed in his religion ? and must the character now supposed to be common to protestants , be taken from his ignorant , or childish , or wilful mistakes ? did ever any protestant that understands himself , say , that papists are never permitted to hear sermons which they are able to understand , or that they held it lawful to commit idolatry ; or , that a papist believes the pope to be his great god , and to be far above all angels , & c ? yet these are some of his misrepresentations . did he in earnest think so himself ? if he did , he gives no good account of himself : if he did not , he gives a worse ; for then how shall we believe him in other things , when he saith , he hath drawn his mis-representations exactly according to his own apprehensions ? it is true , he saith , he added some few points , which were violently charged on him by his friends : but we dare be bold to say , these were none of them . but let us suppose it true , that he had such apprehensions himself . are these fit to be printed as the character of a party ? what would they say to us , if a spanish convert should give a character of protestants ; according to the common opinion the people there have of them ; and set down in one column their monstrous mis-representations , and in another , what he found them to be since his coming hither ; and that in good truth he saw they were just like other men ? but suppose he had false apprehensions before he went among them ; why did he not take care to inform himself better before he changed ? had he no friends , no books , no means to rectifie his mistakes ? must he needs leave one church , and go to another , before he understood either ? if this be a true account of himself , it is but a bad account of the reasons of his change. iii. the account he gives of the other part of his character , affords as little satisfaction : for although in the general , it be well that he pretends to keep to a rule , ( . ) he shews no authority he hath to interpret that rule in his own sense . now several of his representations depend upon his own private sense and opinions , against the doctrine of many others as zealous for the church as himself ; and what reason have we to adhere to his representations , rather than to theirs ? as for instance , he saith , the pope's personal infallibility is no matter of faith : but there are others say it is , and is grounded on the same promises which makes him head of the church . why now must we take his representation rather than theirs ? and so as to the deposing power , he grants , it hath been the opinion of several popes ( and councils too ) but that it is no matter of faith. but whose judgment are we to take in this matter , according to the principles of their church ? a private man's , of no name , no authority , or of those popes and councils who have declared it , and acted by it ? and can any man of their church justifie our relying upon his word , against the declaration of popes and councils ? but suppose the question be about the sense of his own rule , the council of trent : what authority hath he to declare it , when the pope hath expresly forbidden all prelates to do it , and reserved it to the apostolical see ? ( . ) he leaves out , in the several particulars , an essential part of the character of a papist since the council of trent ; which is , that he doth not only believe the doctrines there defined to be true , but to be necessary to salvation . and there is not a word of this in his representation of the points of doctrine , but the whole is managed as though there were nothing but a difference about some particular opinions ; whereas in truth , the necessity of holding those doctrines , in order to salvation , is the main point in difference . if men have no mind to believe their own senses , we know not how to help it ; but we think it is very hard to be told , we cannot be saved unless we renounce them too . and this now appears to be the true state of the case , since pius the th drew up and published a confession of faith , according to the decrees and canons of the council of trent , wherein men are not only required to believe their traditions as firmly as the bible , the seven sacraments , transubstantiation , the sacrifice of the mass , purgatory , invocation of saints , worshipping of images , indulgences , supremacy , &c. but they must believe , that without believing these things , there is no salvation to be had in the ordinary way ; for after the enumeration of those points , it follows , hanc veram catholicam sidem extra quam nemo salvus esse potest , &c. this is the true catholick faith , without which no man can be saved ; i. e. the belief of these things is hereby declared as necessary to salvation , as of any other articles of the creed . but it may be objected , the subscribing this profession of faith , is not required of all members of that church . to which i answer , that to make a man a member of it , he must declare that he holds the same faith which the church of rome holds : and this is as much the faith of the roman church , as the pope and council of trent could make it . and it is now printed in the roman ritual at paris , set forth by paul the th , as the confession of faith owned by the church of rome . and therefore this ought to have been a part of the true representation , as to the doctrinal points ; but when he comes to the th head , he then owns , that unless men do believe every article of the roman faith , they cannot be saved , and he that disbelieves one , does in a manner disbelieve all . which may as well reach those who disown the deposing power , and the pope's personal infallibility , as us , since those are accounted articles of faith by the ruling part of their church , to whom it chiefly belongs to declare them ; and the former hath been defined both by popes and councils . ( . ) he never sets down what it is which makes any doctrine to become a doctrine of their church . we are often blamed for charging particular opinions upon their church ; but we desire to know what it is which makes a doctrine of their church ; i. e. whether frequent and publick declaration , by the heads and guides of their church , be sufficient or not to that end ? our author seems to imply the necessity of some conditions to be observed ; for besides the popes authority , he requires due circumstances , and proceeding according to law : but who is to be judge of these circumstances and legal proceedings ? and he never tells what these circumstances are . and yet after all , he saith , the orders of the supream pastor are to be obey'd , whether he be infallible or not . and this now brings the matter home ; the popes , he confesses , have owned the deposing doctrine , and acted according to it : and others are bound to obey their orders , whether infallible or not ; and consequently they are bound by the doctrine of their church to act , when the popes shall require it , according to the deposing power . but he seems to say , in this case , that a doctrine of their church is to be judged by their number ; for , saith he , there are greater numbers that disown this doctrine . i will not at present dispute it ; but i desire to be informed , whether the doctrines of their church go by majority of votes , or not ? i had thought the authority of the guides of the church ought to have over-ballanced any number of dissenters . for , what are those who refuse to submit to the dictates of popes and councils , but dissenters from the church of rome ? the distinction of the court and church of rome , is wholly impertinent in this case . for , we here consider not the meer temporal power which makes the court , but the spiritual capacity of teaching the church : and if popes and councils may err in teaching this doctrine , why not in any other ? i know there are some that say , vniversal tradition is necessary to make a doctrine ●f their church . but then no submission can be required to any doctrine in that church , till the universal tradition of it , in all times , and in all parts of the christian church , be proved . and we need to desire no better terms than these , as to all points of pope pius the th his creed , which are in dispute between us and them . ( . ) he makes use of the authority of some particular divines , as delivering the sense of their church , when there are so many of greater authority against them . whereas , if we proceed by his own rule , the greater number is to carry it . therefore we cannot be thought to mis-represent them , if we charge them with such things as are owned , either by the general and allowed practices of their church , or their publick offices , or the generality of their divines and casuists ; or in case of a contest , with that side which is owned by the guides of their church , when the other is censured ; or which was approved by their canonized saints , or declared by their popes and councils , whose decrees they are bound to follow . and by these measures i intend to proceed , having no design to mis-represent them , as indeed we need not . and so much in answer to the introduction . a papist mis-represented and represented . i. of praying to images . a papist mis-represented , worships stocks and stones for gods. he takes no notice of the second commandment , but setting up pictures , and images of christ , the virgin mary , and other his saints ; he prays to them , and puts his trust and confidence in them ; much like as the heathens did in their wooden gods , jupiter , mars , venus , &c. and for this reason , he erects stately monuments to them in his churches , adorns them sumptuously , burns candles , offers incense , and frequently falls down prostrate before them , and with his eyes fix'd on them , cries out , help me mary , assist me anthony , remember me ignatius . a papist represented , believes it damnable , to worship stocks and stones for gods , to pray to pictures or images of christ , the virgin mary , or any other saints ; as also , to put any trust or confidence in them . he keeps them by him indeed , to preserve in his mind the memory of the things represented by them ; as people are wont to preserve the memory of their deceased friends by keeping their picture . he is taught to use them , by casting his eye upon the pictures or images , and thence to raise his heart to the prototypes , and there to imploy it in meditation , love , thanksgiving , imitation , &c. as the object requires : as many good christians , placing a death-head before them ; from the sight of it , take occasion to reflect often upon their last end , in order to their better preparing for it ; or by seeing old time painted with his fore-lock , hour-glass and scythe , turn their thoughts upon the swiftness of time , and that whosoever neglects the present , is in danger of beginning then to lay hold , when there 's no more to come . these pictures or images having this advantage , that they inform the mind by one glance , of what in reading requires a chapter , and sometimes a volume . there being no other difference between them , then that reading represents leisurely and by degrees ; and a picture , all at once . hence he finds a convenience in saying his prayers with some devout pictures before him ; he being no sooner distracted , but the sight of these recalls his wandring thoughts to the right object ; and as certainly brings something good into his mind , as an immodest picture disturbs his heart with naughtiness . and because he is sensible that these holy pictures and images represent and bring to his mind such objects , which in his heart he loves , honours , and venerates ; he cannot , but upon that account , love , honour , and respect the images themselves . as whosoever loves their husband , child , or friend , cannot but have some love and respect for their pictures ; and whosoever loves and honours his king , will have some honour and esteem for his image : not that he venerates any image or ●icture , for any virtue or divinity believ'd to be in them , or for any thing that is to be petition'd of them ; but because the honour that is exhibited to them , is referr'd to the prototypes which they represent . so that 't is not properly the images he honours , but christ and his saints by the images : as it is not properly the images or pictures of kings or dukes we generally respect or injure ; but by their images or pictures we respect or injure kings or dukes themselves . all the veneration therefore he expresses before images , whether by kneeling , praying , lifting up the eyes , burning candles , incense , &c. 't is not at all done for the image , but is wholly referr'd to the things represented , which he intends to honour by these actions . and how , by so doing , he breaks the second commandment , he cannot conceive ; for he acknowledges only one god , and to him alone gives sovereign honour ; and is so far from honouring images as gods , that for any ones satisfaction , he is ready to break or tear a crucifix , or other image whatsoever , into a thousand pieces , and cast them into the fire . and what respect he shews them , seems to him no more injurious to any of the commandments , than 't is for a christian to love and honour his neighbour , because he bears the image of god in his soul ; to kiss and esteem the bible , because it contains and represents to him god's word ; or to love a good preacher because he minds him of his duty ; all which respects do not at all derogate from god almighty's honour ; but are rather testimonies of our greater love and honour of him , since , for his sake , we love and esteem every thing that has any respect or relation to him . i. of praying to images . in this , and the other particulars , where it is necessary , i shall observe this method ; . to give a clear and impartial account of the state of the controversy in as few words as i can . . to make some reflections on what he saith , in order to the clearing them from misrepresentations . as to the state of this controversy , as it stands , since the council of trent , we are to consider . . we must distinguish between what persons do in their own opinion ; and what they do according to the sense of the divine law. it is possible that men may intend one thing , and the law give another sense of it : as is often seen in the case of treason ; although the persons plead never so much they had no intention to commit treason , yet if the law makes their act to be so , their disavowing it doth not excuse them . so it is in the present case ; men may have real and serious intentions , to refer their final , ultimate , and sovereign worship only to god ; but if the law of god strictly and severely prohibits this particular manner of worship by images , in as full , plain , and clear words as may be , and gives a demonination to such acts , taken from the immediate object of it ; no particular intention of the persons can alter that denomination , or make the guilt to be less than the law makes it . . there can be no misrepresenting as to the lawfulness of many external acts of worship , with respect to images , which are owned by them . but it doth not look fairly to put the title , of praying to images ; for the question is , about the worship of images : whereas this title would insinuate , as though we did directly charge them with praying to their images , without any farther respect . which we are so far from charging them with , that i do not know of any people in the world , who are not like stones and stocks themselves , who are liable to that charge . the pendets in the east-indies are fully cleared from it , by thavenet , as well as bernier . and it would be hard we should not allow the same to our fellow-christians . i do therefore grant what our author saith , viz. that all the veneration they express bèfore images , whether by kneeling , praying , lifting up the eyes , burning candles , incense , &c. is not at all done for the image , but is wholly referr'd to the things represented , which he intends to honour by these actions . but i hope now , it is no misrepresenting for us to say , that they do kneel , pray , lift up their eyes , burn candles , incense , &c. before their images ; which is all i charge them with at present . . to perform these acts before images , without a design to worship the images by them , is declared , by great divines of the church of rome , to be next to heresie . the case was this ; there were before the council of trent , several persons who lived in communion of that church , but by no means approved the worship of images , such as durandus , helcot , picus mirandula , and others . now these persons thought fit to comply in these external acts , but declared they intended not to worship the images , but the objects before them . since the council of trent decreed images were to be worshiped , this case hath been debated by the divines and casuists of greatest reputation among them ; and suarez saith , this way of durandus is dangerous , rash , and savours of heresie ; and he saith further from medina , that it was victoria 's opinion , that it was heretical , ; but he adds , that his own opinion , that images were truly and properly to be worshipped , was generally received by their divines : and therefore i need name no more . . it is granted by their divines and casuists , that the people in the worship of images may easily fall into idolatry . ( . ) if the worship do not pass from the image to the thing represented . and so aquinas himself determines , that no irrational creature is capable of worship , but as it hath , respect to a rational being . but here lies the difficulty , how an extrinsecal relation to an object of worship , where the thing is confessed to deserve none , can give any reason , for its being properly worshiped . but they all grant , if the worship stop at the inanimate part , it can be no other than the worship of stocks and stones . ( . ) if the worship be given to the image , which is proper to god alone . this bellarmine is forced to grant , because the evidence is so clear in antiquity , that the gnosticks were condemned for some worship which they performed to the image of christ. now , we cannot think that these gnosticks were such sots , as to take the image of christ to be christ himself ; and therefore whatever worship it was , it must be relative , i. e. given to the image for the sake of christ represented by it . ( . ) if the people believe any divinity to be in the images , or put any trust or confidence in them , then the council of trent it self owns such to be like the heathen idolaters . now , how shall it be known when the people believe divinity to be in images , but by some more than ordinary presence or operation in or by them ? by their having a greater opinion of one image than of another of the same person ? by their going long pilgrimages to certain images in hopes of relief , when they might easily cause images to represent at home ? and that such are no extravagant imaginations , is known to all who have heard of loretto , or compostella , or other places nearer home . i need not mention the complaints of polydore virgil , cassander , or wicelius to this purpose , who all died in the communion of the church of rome ; for the same is very lately complained of by a considerable person in that communion , who saith , the greatest part of the devotion of the people of italy , spain , and portugal , consists in prostrating themselves before images , and going in pilgrimage to them , and hoping for remission of their sins by so doing . and another very lately yields , that to avoid the peril of idolatry , to which ( he saith ) the people is evidently exposed by the use of images , it would be necessary to take them away from the altars , and by no means to have them allowed for the objects of religious worship . the question now is , whether the council of trent hath taken any effectual course to prevent these abuses ? if not , what mis-representing is it to charge the abuses upon the doctrines and practices allowed by it ? the remedies prescribed by the council , are these ; . declaring that there is no divinity or vertue in them for which they should be worshipped ; and that nothing is to be desired of them , nor any trust or confidence to be put in them . . expressing their earnest desire , that if any abuses have crept in , they may be removed . but in the mean time the council decrees , the images not only to be useful to be set up in churches , but to have due honour and worship given them there , for the sake of those they represent ; as not only putting off the hat , but falling down before them , and the roman catechism declares , that this worship is very beneficial to the people , and so much is to be told them ; and that images are to be in churches , not meerly for instruction , sed ut colantur , that they may be worshipped . but what could the council do more , than to desire all abuses may be taken away ; and is it not then the fault of others , and not of the council , if they be not ? i grant , the council doth desire abuses may be taken away , if any such be ; but then it enumerates those abuses , in heterodox images , in making gain of images , in painting them too wantonly : but besides , it doth say , that all superstition be removed in the sacred vse of images ; but it doth not say in the worship of them ; and so it may relate to magick and divination , but that the council could not prevent , or design to prevent the abuses mention'd in the worship of images , will appear by these things . . the cuoncil of trent allows the highest relative worship to be given to them : it setting no bounds to it , so it be for the sake of the prototypes . . it allows a worship to be given to the images themselves too ; for it confirms the second council of nice , which decreed an inferiour adoration to be given to them . . it disapproves no customs then practised among them in the worship of images ; which were all known , and by many complained of , both as pilgrimages to them , and the carrying of them about in procession , and the solemn consecration of them ; the form whereof is not only inserted but inlarged in the new pontifical since the council of trent . and it is to be observed , that in the old pontifical , a. d. . there is no form for consecrating an image ; in that of paul the d , it is inserted ; but out of durandus ; but in that of clement the th , it is put in more largely and as authentically as if it had been always there . and is not this the way to reform the worship of images ? to come now to our author's reflections , on the mis-representation he saith hath been made as to this point . . a papist represented , believes it damnable to worship stocks and stones for gods ; to pray to pictures or images of christ , the virgin mary , or any other saints . these expressions are capable of a double sense , and therefore this is not fair representing . ( . ) to worship stocks or stones for gods , may signifie two things . ( . ) to believe the very stocks and stones to be gods. and this we do not charge them with . ( . ) to give to images made of wood and stone , the worship due only to god ; and so by construction of the fact , to make them gods , by giving them divine worship . and if they will clear themselves of this , they must either prove that external adoration is no part of divine worship , ( notwithstanding the scripture makes it so , and all the rest of mankind look upon it as such , even jews , turks , and infidels ) or that their external adoration hath no respect to the images ( which is contrary to the council of trent ) or that divine worship being due to the being represented , it may be likewise given to the image . and how then could the gnosticks be condemned for giving divine worship to the image of christ , which bellarmine confesses ; and is affirmed by irenaeus , epiphanius , s. augustine , and damascen ? ( . ) to pray to images of christ , or the blessed virgin , may likewise be taken in two senses . ( . ) to pray to them , so as to expect to be heard by the meer images , and so we do not charge them with it . ( . ) to pray to them , so as to expect to be rather heard by themselves for praying to them by their images . and if this be not so ; to what end are the prayers made in the consecration of images , for those that shall pray before them ? to what purpose do so many go in long pilgrimages to certain images , if they do not hope to be better heard for praying there ? but he goes on , . he keeps them by him indeed , to keep in his mind the memory of the things represented by them . and is this all in good truth ? we will never quarrel with them , if this be true representing . no , that he dares not say . but , . he is taught to use them . but how ? by custing his eye upon the ●ictures or images , and thence to raise his heart to the prototypes . and is this all yet ? no. but , . he finds a double conveniency in the use of them . ( . ) they represent at one glance ; and men may easily make good reflections , as upon the sight of a death's head , or old time painted with his fore-lock , hour-glass , and scyth . and will he undertake , that images shall be used in churches for no other end ? was the picture of old time ever consecrated , or placed upon the altar , or elsewhere , that it might be worshipped ? as the roman catechism speaks of their images . ( . ) they cure distractions ; for they call back his wandring thoughts to the right object . what is this right object ? the image , or the person represented ? and that must be either a creature , or god himself . if it be a creature , doth not this imply that it is made a right object of worship ? if god himself , how doth an image cure our distraction , in the worship of an infinite invisible being ; when the very image is most apt to distract our thoughts , by drawing them down from his divine and adorable perfections , to the gross and mean representations of an image . but are we yet to come to the utmost use of them ? no. but , . he cannot but love , honour , and respect the images themselves , for the sake of those they represent . will this content them ? and will he promise to go no further ? it is hard to part upon terms of meer respect and decent regard , where there is no encroachment upon divine worship . and here we are at a stand . but he goes further . . and so he is come at last , to veneration before images . and is this all ? dares he deny veneration to images , when the council of trent hath determined it . eisque venerationem impartiendam ? what is this veneration before images only ? bellarmine hath a chapter on purpose to prove , that true and proper worship is to be given to images . and was he a misrepresenter ? suarez saith , it is an article of faith , that worship is to be given to them . but if the veneration be only before them , why are they consecrated , and set up in places proper for adoration ? but , . to satisfie any one that he is far from making gods of his images , he is ready to break them into a thousand pieces . what , a consecrated image ? dares he take a crucifix from the altar and tear it in pieces ? this doth not look like the love , honour , and respect he mentioned before , not to name veneration . and i am afraid this is a strain beyond true representing : yet at length he hath found some pretty parallels for the veneration of images themselves ; and so we are come at last to the main point . but this is not directly owned ; yet in the way of his representing , it is fairly insinuated by his parallels . . a christian loves and honours his neighbour , because he bears the image of god in his soul. but doth he therefore take him and set him before him when he kneels at his devotion : to raise his mind , and cure his distractions ? would he set him upon the altar , and burn incense before him , because of the image of god in him ? is there no difference between the object of christian love , and of divine worship ? nor between a spiritual invisible divine image in the souls of men , and a material and corporeal representation ? . we may kiss and esteem the bible , because it contains and represents to vs gods word . but when we kiss and esteem the bible , we remember the second commandment is in it ; and we dare not break his law , when we pretend to honour his word . but we think there is some difference between reverence and respect to the bible , and falling down before an image . the circumstances of the one declare it to be meer respect , and a religious decency ; and if the other be not external adoration , we know not what it is . a good preacher is loved , because he minds men of their duty . but what should we say to him that should therefore kneel down and say his prayers , and burn candles and incense before him , out of a respect to his good doctrine ? did s. peter , or s. paul like this , when men would have worshipped them ? a good preacher would tell them of their duty , as they did ; and take men off from the worship of any creature , animate or inanimate , and direct them to worship god alone , who made heaven and earth . ii. of worshipping saints . he makes gods of dead men , such as are departed hence , and now are no more able to hear , or see , or understand his necessities : and tho' god be so good as to invite all to come unto him , and to apply themselves to their only and infinite mediator jesus christ : yet so stupid is he , that neglecting , and , as it were , passing by both god and his only son , and all their mercies , he betakes himself to his saints , and there pouring forth his prayers , he confides in them as his mediators and redeemers , and expects no blessing , but what is to come to him by their merits , and through their hands : and thus , without scruple or remorse , robs god of his honour . he believes there 's only one god ; and that 't is a most damnable idolatry to make gods of men , either living or dead . his church teaches him indeed , ( and he believes ) that it is good and profitable to desire the intercession of the saints , reigning with christ in heaven ; but that they are gods , or his redeemers , he is no where taught ; but detests all such doctrine . he confesses , that we are all redeem'd by the blood of christ alone , and that he is our only mediator of redemption : but as for mediators of intercession , ( that is , such as we may desire lawfully to pray for us ) he does not doubt , but 't is acceptable to god , we should have many . moses was such a mediator for the israelites ; iob for his three friends ; stephen for his persecutors . the romans were thus desir'd by saint paul to be his mediators ; so were the corinthians , so the ephesians ; so almost every sick man desires the congregation to be his mediators ; that is , to be remembred in their prayers . and so he desires the blessed in heaven to be his mediators ; that is , that they would pray to god for him . and in this , he does not at all neglect coming to god , or rob him of his honour ; but directing all his prayers up to him , and making him the ultimate object of all his petitions , he only desires sometimes the iust on earth , sometimes those in heaven , to joyn their prayers to his , that so the number of petitioners being increas'd , the petition may find better acceptance in the sight of god. and this is not to make them gods , but only petitioners to god ; 't is not to make them his redeemers , but only intercessors to his redeemer ; he having no hopes of obtaining any thing , but of god alone , by , and through the merits of christ ; for which he desires the saints in heaven , and good men on earth , to offer up their prayers with his ; the prayers of the iust availing much before god. but now , how the saints in heaven know the prayers and necessities of such , who address themselves to them , whether by the ministry of angels , or in the vision of god , or by some particular revelation , 't is no part of his faith , nor is it much his concern it should be determin'd . for his part he does not doubt , but that god , who acquainted the prophets with the knowledge of things , that were yet to come many hundred years after ; that inform'd elijah of the king of syria's counsel , tho' private , resolv'd on in his bed-chamber , and at a distance ; ( kings . . ) can never want means of letting the saints know the desires of those who beg their intercession here on earth : especially since our saviour tells , that abraham heard the petitions of dives , who was yet at a greater distance , even in hell ; and told him likewise the manner of his living , while as yet on earth . nay , since 't is generally allow'd , that even the very devils hear those desperate wretches , who call on them : why should he doubt , that saints want this priviledge , in some manner granted to sinful men , and to wicked spirits ; who , ( tho departed this life ) are not so properly dead , as translated from a mortal life , to an immortal one ; where , enjoying god almighty , they lose no perfections which they enjoy'd , while on earth , but possess all in a more eminent manner ; having more charity , more love , and being more acceptable to god than ever ; becoming like angels : and as these offered up their prayers for ierusalem , and the cities of iudah , ( zach. . . ) so undoubtedly they likewise fall down before the lamb , having every one of them harps , and golden vials full of odours , which are the prayers of the saints , apoc. . . ii. of worshipping saints . for the clear stating this controversy , these things are to be premised . . we do not charge them , that they make gods of dead men , i. e. that they believe the saints to be independent deities . for this our author confesses were a most damnable idolatry . . we do not say , that the state of the church of rome , with respect to the worship of dead men , is as bad as heathenism . for we acknowledge the true saints and martyrs to have been , not only good and vertuous , but extraordinary persons , in great favour with god , and highly deserving our esteem and reverence , as well as imitation ; whereas the heathen deified men , were vile and wicked men , and deserved not the common esteem of mankind , according to the accounts themselves give of them . and we own the common doctrine and advantages of christianity to be preserved in the church of rome . . we do not deny , that they do allow some external acts of worship to be so proper to god alone , that they ought to be given to none else besides him . and this they call latria ; and we shall never dispute with them about the proper signification of a word , when the sense is agreed , unless they draw inferences from it , which ought not to be allowed . to this latria , they refer not only sacrifice , but all that relates to it , as temples , altars , and priests : so that by their own confession , to make these immediately and properly to the honour of any saint , is to make a god of that saint , and to commit idolatry . . they confess , that to pray to saints to bestow spiritual or temporal gifts upon us , were to give to them the worship proper to god , who is the only giver of all good things . for else i do not understand , why they should take so much pains to let us know , that whatever the forms of their prayers and hymns are , yet the intention and spirit of the church , is only to desire them to pray for us , and to obtain thngs for us by their intercession with god. but two things cannot be denied by them . . that they do use solemn invocation of saints in places of divine worship , at the same time they make their addresses to god himself , with all the circumstances of external adoration , with bended knees and eyes lifted up to heaven ; and that this practice is according to the council of trent , which not only decrees an humble invocation of them , but declares it to be impiety to condemn mental and vocal supplication to the saints in heaven . . that they do own making the saints in heaven to be their mediators of intercession ▪ but not of redemption ; although christ be our mediator in both senses . and upon these two points this controversy depends . let us now see what our representer saith to them . . his church teaches him indeed , and he believes that it is good and profitable , to desire the intercession of the saints reigning with christ in heaven ; but that they are either gods , or his redeemers , he is no where taught , but detests all such doctrine . there are two ways of desiring intercession of others for us . . by way of friendly request , as an act of mutual charity ; and so , no doubt , we may desire others here on earth to pray for us . . by way of humble supplication , with all the external acts of adoration : and we cannot think st. peter , or st. paul , who refused any thing like adoration from men , would have been pleased to have seen men fall down upon their knees before them ; and in the same posture of devotion in which they were praying to almighty god , to put their names into the middle of their litanies , and so pray them then to pray for them . but how are we sure that their church teaches no more than this ? i have read over and over the council of trent , and the roman catechism about it , and i can find no such limitation of their sense there , where , if any where , it ought to be found . the council of trent mentions both the prayers , and the help and assistance of the saints which they are to fly to . if this help and assistance be no more than their prayers , why is it mentioned as distinct ? why is their reigning together with christ in heaven spoken of , but to let us understand they have a power to help and assist ? for what is their reigning to their praying for us ? but i have a further argument to prove the council meant more , viz. the council knew the common practices and forms of invocation then used and allowed , and the general opinion , that the saints had power to help and assist those who prayed to them . if the council did not approve this , why did it insert the very words upon which that practice was grounded ? they likewise very well knew the complaints which had been made of these things ; and some of their own communion cried shame upon some of their hymns . wicelius saith , one of them , salve regina , &c. is full of downright impiety , and horrible superstition , and that others are wholly inexcusable . lud. vives had said , he found little difference in the peoples opinion of their saints in many things , from what the heathens had of their gods. these things were known , and it was in their power to have redressed them , by declaring what the sense of the council was , and that whatever forms were used , no more was to be understood by them , but praying to them to pray for them besides , the council of trent , in the very same session , took care about reforming the missal and breviary ; why was no care taken to reform these prayers and hymns , which they say are not to be construed by the sense of the words , but by the sense of the church ? there was time enough taken for doing it ; for the reformed missal was not published till six years after the council , nor the breviary till four . in all that time , the prayers and hymns might easily have been altered to the sense of the church , if that were truly so . but instead of that , a very late french writer cries out of the necessity of reforming the breviaries as to these things ; wherein he confesses , many hymns are still remaining , wherein those things are asked of saints , which ought to be asked of god alone ; as being delivered from the chains of our sins , being preserved from spiritual maladies , and hell-fire ; being inflamed with charity , and made fit for heaven . in good conscience , saith he , is not this joyning the saints with god himself , to ask those things of them which god alone can give ? and whatever men talk of the sense of the church , he confesses , the very forms , and natural sense of the words ; do raise another idea in mens minds ; which ought to be prevented . but doth not the roman catechism explain this to be the sense of the church ? i have examined that too , with all the care i could , about this matter . and i cannot find any necessity from thence of putting this sense upon them . i grant in one place , where it explains the difference of the invocation of god and saints , it saith , we are to pray to god as the giver , and to saints that they would obtain things of god for us ; and then it adds , the forms differ , that to god is , miserere nobis , and audi nos ; that to saints is , ora pro nobis . very well ! and is there then no other form owned or allowed in the church of rome to saints besides this ? hold a little , saith the catechism , for it is lawful to make use of another form ; and that is , we may pray to saints too , vt nostri misereantur . and how doth this now differ from that to god , but only in number ? but it adds , that the saints are very pitiful ; then surely we are encouraged to pray to them for help and pity . yes , saith the catechism , we may pray to them , that being moved with pity toward us , they would help us with their favour and intercession with god. but yet this doth not clear the matter ; for elsewhere the roman catechism attributes more to saints than meer intercession ; and we may pray to them for what is in their power : for where it undertakes to give an exact account of the reason of invocation of saints and angels ; it there parallels them with magistrates under a king ; and saith , they are gods ministers in governing the church ; invocandi itaque sunt quod & perpetuo deum intuentur , & patrocinium salutis nostrae libentissimè suscipiunt . what is this patrocinium salutis nostrae ? is it only praying and intercession with god ? that cannot be , for it instances presently in deliverances by angels , and jacob 's praying to the angel to bless him , and not meerly to intercede for him . but though this is spoken of angels , yet from hence it infers the invocation of saints too . but what need we insist more on this , since they do own the ministry of saints as well as angels , with respect to the church ; and do canonize saints for particular countries , as lately s. rosa for peru. and where there is such a particular protection supposed , what incongruity is it to interpret the form of their prayers , according to a doctrine so received and allowed ? but of this more under the next head. . he confesses that we are all redeemed by the blood of christ alone , and that he is our only mediator of redemption ; but as for mediators of intercession , he doth not doubt but it is acceptable with god we should have many . i would ask , concerning this distinction , the question which christ asked concerning iohn's baptism , is it from heaven , or of man ? no doubt there may be such a distinction of mediators , if god please to make them . but who hath authority to appoint mediators with him besides himself ? is it not usurping his prerogative , to appoint the great officers of his kingdom for him ? would any prince upon earth allow this , viz. when he hath absolutely declared his pleasure , that his own son should present petitions to him , that others shall take upon them to set up masters of requests themselves ? can any thing be plainer in the new testament , than that god hath appointed the mediator of redemption , to be our mediator of intercession ? and that his intercession is founded upon his redemption . as the high priest's going into the holy of holies to intercede for the people , was upon the blood of the sacrifice of expiation , which he carried in with him . if there were no revelation in this matter , there might be some reason for it . but since the revelation is so clear in it , this distinction looks just like the socinians distinction of a god by nature , and a god by office ; which was framed on purpose to avoid the plain texts of scripture which called christ god. so doth this look as if it were intended to avoid that clear text , which saith , there is one mediator between god and men , the man christ iesus . which is presently answered with this distinction ; although there be not the least ground in that or any other text for it . yes , saith our author , moses was such a mediator for the israelites ; job for his three friends ; stephen for his persecutors : the romans were desired by s. paul to be his mediator , and the corinthians and ephesians ; so almost every sick person desires the congregation to be his mediator , that is , to be remembred in their prayers . but is there no difference between men praying for one another , and desiring others to pray for them here on earth , and an humble invocation of the saints in heaven to be our mediators of intercession with god there ? there is a threefold disparity in the case . . here upon earth we converse with one another as fellow creatures , and there is no danger of our having an opinion thereby , that were able to assist one another any other way than by our prayers . but the case is very different as to the saints in heaven , who by being addressed to there by such solemn invocation , may too easily be conceived to have the power of bestowing such blessings upon those who call upon them . . heaven is looked upon by all mankind who direct their devotions thither , as the particular throne of god , where he dwells , and discovers himself after another manner than he doth upon the earth . and we are directed to pray to our father in heaven ; where he is represented as infinitely above all his creatures ; and the great concernment of religion is , to keep up the apprehension of this distance between him and them . now it is hardly possible to keep it up , if in the publick offices of religion ; in the solemnest postures of devotion , with eyes lifted up to heaven , they do make addresses , both to god and to his creatures . . men are sure , when they pray to others on earth to pray for them , that they do no more than they can justifie in point of discretion , when they speak or write to those that can understand what their desire is : but no man on earth can be certain that the saints in heaven can do it : for it is agreed they cannot do it without revelation , and no man can be assured there is a revelation ; and it is not reasonable to expect it ; for they pray to saints to pray to god for them , and they cannot tell what they pray for , unless god to whom they are to pray , reveal to them what it is they must pray to him for . is it not then the better , the safer , the wiser way , to make our prayers to him , who we are sure is able to hear and help us ; and hath promised to grant what we ask in his son's name ? but there is no other name , either under heaven , or in heaven , whereby we can be saved , or our prayers accepted , but his alone . but our author saith , it is no part of his faith , how the saints in heaven know the prayers and necessities of such who address themselves to them . but how comes it to be any part of his faith , that they know them ? however he doth not doubt but god can never want means of letting the saints know them . and is this a sufficient ground for solemn invocation of saints ? god doth not want means to let the emperor of iapan know a request any one here hath to make to him ; but is this a reasonable ground , for him at this distance to make it to him ? god doth not want means to let the pope know what a mighty service it would be to the christian world , to make a wise and truly christian-reformation in the church ; but would this be a ground sufficient for me at this distance , to make a speech to him about it ? i knew a man who understood not a word of latin , but yet would needs go to hear a latin sermon : some asked him afterwards , what he meant by it ; and the chief reason he gave was much like this , god did not want means to let him know what the preacher meant : but after all , suppose god should make known to the saints what is desired of them ; i ask , whether this be sufficient ground for solemn invocation , when socinus was not able to defend the invocation of christ himself , supposing that he could know our hearts only by relation ? and he had nothing material to say , but only that there was a command for it ; which can never be so much as pretended in this case . as to what he alledges of the elders falling down before the lamb , having vials full of odours , which are the prayers of the saints , apoc. . . it must be strained hard to be brought to this purpose , when both ancient and modern interpreters take it for a representation of what was done upon earth , and not in heaven . and if it were in heaven , prophetical visions were never intended for a measure of our duties . if the angels do pray for mankind , zech. . . doth it therefore follow we must pray to them ? but we say as the angel did to s. iohn , revel . . . in a like case ; see thou do it not : worship god. iii. of addressing more supplications to the virgin mary than to christ. he believes the virgin mary to be much more powerful in heaven than christ , and that she can command him to do what she thinks good : and for this reason he honours her much more than he does her son , or god the father ; for one prayer he says to god , saying ten to the holy virgin. he believes it damnable to think the virgin mary more powerful in heaven than christ ; or that she can in any thing command him . he honours her indeed , as one that was chosen to be the mother of god , and blessed amongst all women : and believes her to be most acceptable to god , in her intercession for us : but owning her still as a creature , and that all she has of excellency or bliss , is the gift of god , proceeding from his meer goodness . neither does he at any time say even so much as one prayer to her , but what is directed more principally to god ; because offered up as a thankful memorial of christ's incarnation , and an acknowledgment of the blessedness of iesus the fruit of her womb. and this without imagining that there 's any more dishonouring of god in his reciting the angelical salutation , than in the first pronouncing it by the angel gabriel and elizabeth : or that his frequent repetition of it is any more an idle superstition , than it was in david to repeat the same words over twenty six times in the psalm . iii. of addressing more supplications to the virgin mary , than to christ. here is no need of farther starting the question , this only relating to the extraordinary service of the blessed virgin. and therefore we are presently to atttend his motions . he believes it damnable to think the virgin mary more powerful in heaven than christ , or that she can in any thing command him . but in good earnest , is is not damnable , unless a man thinks the blessed virgin more powerful than christ ? suppose one should think her to have an equal share of power with christ ; is this damnable , or not ? is it not setting up a creature equal with god ? but what thinks he then of those who have attributed an universal dominion to her , over angels , men , and devils ? what thinks he not only of psalters , but of a creed , litany , and all the hymns of scripture being applied to her ? all which was done by a canonized saint in their church ; and the books printed out of the vatican manuscripts , and dedicated to the pope . and there we find something more than an ora pro nobis in the litany ; for there is parce nobis , domina , spare us , good lady : and ab omni malo , libera nos , domina : from all evil , good lady , deliver us . what thinks he of another canonized saint , who said , these two propositions are both true , all things are subject to god's command , even the virgin ; and all things are subject to the command of the virgin , even god. was this damnable in a canonized saint ? what thinks he of the noted hymn ? o felix puerpera nostra pians scelera . iure matris impera redemptori ! was not this damnable ? and i have not only seen it in the old paris missal , but balinghem a jesuit , saith , it was in the missals of tournay , liege , amiens , artois , and the old roman . i could produce many other passages cited by him out of the old offices to the same purpose ; but i forbear . but i cannot omit the approbation given to the blasphemous saying of st. bernardin by mendoza , ( who endeavours to prove the blessed virgin 's kingdom , not to be a metaphorical , but a true and real kingdom ) . and by salazar , another noted jesuit , who saith , her kingdom is as large as her son 's . and we have lately seen how far this divinity is spread , for not many years since , this proposition was sent from mexico , filius non tantum tenetur audire matrem , sed & obedire ; the son is bound not only to hear , but to obey his mother . and is it still damnable for to say , she commands him ? but our author saith , whatever esteem they have for her , they own her still as a creature . is he sure of that ? what thinks he of another saying , which mendoza approves of , viz. of christ's saying to his mother , as thou hast communicated humanity to me , i will communicate my deity to thee ? but it may be said , we are by no means to judge the sense of a church by some mens extravagant sayings . i grant it . but i have something considerable to reply ; viz. that we may easily judge which way the guides of that church incline , by this following passage : about ten years since a gentleman of that communion published a book , called , wholsome advice to the worshippers of the blessed virgin , and the whole design of it , being printed in latin and french , was to bring the people of that church to a bare ora pro nobis to the blessed virgin. but this was so far from being approved , that the book was condemned at rome , and vehemently opposed by the jesuits in france ; and a whole volume published against it . here i have reason to enquire , whether the virgin mary then , according to the sense of the church of rome , be only a mediatrix of intercession or not , since so large power and dominion is attributed to her ? and why should not her suppliants go beyond an ora pro nobis , if this doctrine be received ; as it must be , if the contrary cannot be endured ? for that author allowed her intercession , and prayer to her on that account ; but he found fault with those who said she had a kingdom divided with her son ; that she was the mother of mercy , or was a co-saviour , or co-redemptrix ; or that she was to be worshipped with latria ; or that men were to be slaves to her . now , if these things must not be touched without censure , and no censure pass on the other books ; it is not easy to judge , which is more agreeable to the spirit of the guides of that church ? but we have a fresh instance of this kind at home , in a book very lately published ; permissu superiorum . there we are told in the epistle , that not only the blessed virgin is the empress of seraphims — the most exact original of practical perfection which the omnipotency of god ever drew ; but that by innumerable titles she claims the utmost duty of every christian , as a proper homage to her greatness . what can be said more of the son of god in our nature ? in the book it self she is said to be queen of angels , patroness of the church , advocate of sinners ; that the power of mary in the kingdom of iesus , is suitable to her maternity , and other priviledges of grace ; and therefore by it she justly claims à servitude from all pure creatures . but wherein doth this special devotion to her consist ? he names several particulars . . in having an inward , cordial and passionate value of the maternity of mary , and all other excellencies proper to , and inseparable from the mother of god. . in external acts of worship , of eminent servitude towards her , by reason of the amplitude of her power in the empire of iesus . and can we imagine these should go no farther , than a poor ora pro nobis ? he instances in these external acts of her worship . ( . ) frequent visiting holy places dedicated to her honour . and are not those her temples then ? which bellarmine confesses to be a peculiar part of the worship due to god. and the distinction of basilicae cannot hold here : because he believes the assumption of the blessed virgin ; and he will not pretend to her honour is only for discrimination . ( . ) a special reverence towards images representing her person . ( . ) performing some daily devotions containing her praises , congratulating her excellency , or imploring her mediation : and by oft calling upon the sacred name of holy mary , &c. ( . ) in having a firm and unshaken confidence in her patronage amidst the greatest of our outward conflicts , and outward tribulations ; through a strong iudgement of her eminent power within the empire of iesus , grounded upon the singular prerogative of her divine maternity . i have not patience to transcribe more , but refer the reader to the book it self ; only the eighth particular of special devotion is so remarkable , that it ought not to be passed over , viz. entring a solemn covenant with holy mary , to be for ever her servant , client and devote under some special rule , society , or form of life , and thereby dedicating our persons , concerns , actions , and all the moments and events of our life to iesus , under the protection of his divine mother , choosing her to be our adoptive mother , patroness and advocate ; and intrusting her with what we are , have , or do hope , in life , death , and through all eternity . and is all this no more than an ora pro nobis ? and it follows , put your self wholly under her protection . what a pitiful thing was the old collyridian cake , in comparison of these special acts of devotion to her ! but there are some extraordinary strains of devotion afterwards , which it is pity to pass over . as , i will ever observe thee as my sovereign lady , adoptive mother , and most powerful patroness ; relying on thy bowels of mercy , in all my wants , petitions , and tribulations of body and mind . could any thing greater be said to the eternal son of god ? and in the praise : vers. open my lips , o mother of jesus . resp. and my soul shall speak forth thy praise . vers. divine lady , be intent to my aid . resp. graciously make haste to help me . vers. glory be to jesus and mary . resp. as it was , is , and ever shall be . then follows the eighth psalm , applied thus to her . mary , mother of iesus , how wonderful is thy name , even unto the ends of the earth ! all magnificence be given to mary , and let her be exalted above the stars and angels . reign on high as queen of seraphims and saints ; and be thou crowned with honour and glory , &c. glory be to iesus and mary , &c. in the next page , follows a cantique in imitation of the te deum . let us praise thee , o mother of iesus ! let us acknowledge thee our sovereign lady . let men and angels give honour to thee , the first conceived of all pure creatures , &c. i think i need mention no more ; only three things i shall observe ; ( . ) that this is now printed permissu superiorum ; and we thank them for the seasonableness of it , in helping us in true representing , what their allowed doctrines and practices are . ( . ) that this is published in english , that our people , as well as theirs , may be convinced how far we have been from unjust charging them as to such things as these . ( . ) that at the same time they plead for keeping the bible out of the hands of the people , wherein their discretion is so far to be commended , since the scripture , and this new scheme of devotion , can never stand together . there being not one word in the bible towards it , but very much against it ; and the psalms and hymns must be burlesq'd to found that way . but what saith our author to their rosaries , wherein there are ten ave maries to one pater noster ; which is accounted a special piece of devotion ; and great things are said of the effects of it by alanus de rupe , and many others . . as to the ave maries , he saith , there is no more dishonour to god in reciting the angelical salutation , than in the first pronouncing it by the angel gabriel and elizabeth . but it may not be altogether so pertinent . but doth he really think they said the whole ave maria , as it is used among them ? did the angel and elizabeth say , sancta maria , mater dei , ora pro nobis peccatoribus , nunc & in hora mortis nostrae ? if not , to what purpose are they mentioned here ? . as to the repetition ; that , he saith , is no more an idle superstition , than david 's repeating the same words times in the . psalm . but what is this to the question , why more supplications to the blessed virgin than to christ ? and not one word of answer is given to it . but alanus de rupe answers it roundly , because the blessed virgin is our mediatrix to christ , the mother of mercy , and the special patroness of sinners . this is indeed true representing . iv. of paying divine worship to relicks . he believes a kind of divinity to remain in the relicks of his reputed saints , and therefore adores their ro●ten bones , their corrupted flesh , their old rags , with divine honour ; kneeling down to them , kissing them , and going in pilgrimage to their shrines and sepulchres . and he is so far possess'd with a conceited deity lying hid in those senseless remains , that he foolishly believes they work greater miracles , and raise more to life , than ever christ himself did . he believes it damnable to think there 's any divinity in the relicks of saints , or to adore them with divine honour , or to pray to their rotten bones , old rags or shrines , or that they can work any strange cures or miracles , by any hidden power of their own . but he believes it good and lawful to keep them with a veneration , and give them a religious honour and respect . and this he thinks due to them , in as much as knowing himself oblig'd to respect and honour god almighty from his heart ; he looks upon himself also oblig'd to respect and honour every thing that has any particular relation to him : but this with an inferiour honour ; as the iews did to the ark , to the tables of the law , to moses's rod , to the temple , to the priests : so we generally allow to the bible , because it contains gods word ; to the church , because it is gods house ; to holy men and priests , because they are gods servants . and so he does to relicks , because they appertain to gods favourites ; and being insensible things , are yet very sensible pledges , and lively memorials of christ's servants , dead indeed to us , but alive with him in glory . and more especially , because god himself has been pleas'd to hnour them , by making them instruments of many evident miracles he has visibly work'd by them ; as is manifest upon undeniable record . and this he believes as easie for god almighty now , and as much redounding to the honour of his holy name , as it was in the old law , to work such miraculous effects by moses's rod , by gideon's trumpets , by elia's mantle , after he was taken up into heaven , ( kings . . ) eliseus's bones , ( kings . . ) and infinite other such like insensible things : and also in the new law , by the hem of his own garment , ( mat. . . ) by the shadow of st. peter , ( acts . . ) by the napkins and handkerchiefs that had but touch'd the body of s. paul , casting out devils , and curing diseases , ( acts . . ) and such like . and thus by having a veneration and respect for these , he honours god : and does not doubt , but that they that contemn and profane these , do the like to god , as much as they did , who profan'd the bread of proposition , the temple , and vessels that belong'd to it . iv. of paying divine worship to reliques . for the right understanding this controversie , we are to consider , . that there is a due veneration to the bodies of saints and martyrs , allowed on both sides ; and there is an undue worship of them , which is disowned on both sides . the due veneration is , a religious decency to be observed towards them ; which lies in avoiding any thing like contempt or dishonour to them , and using all such testimonies of respect and decency , which becomes the remains of excellent persons ; provided we are satisfied of their sincerity , without having recourse to divine omnipotency to prove them : which ferrandus the jesuit runs so much to , to prove the truth of many reliques , worshipped in the church of rome in many places at once . but that it is possible to exceed in the worship of true reliques , even bellarmine confesseth , who says , that god took away the body of moses , lest the people should give divine worship to it . and s. ierom , as hot as he was against vigilantius , yet he utterly denied giving any adoration to the reliques of martyrs . it seems then it is very possible to exceed that way . . the question then is , whether those acts of worship which are allowed in the church of rome , do not go beyond due veneration ? for it is unreasonable to suppose those who give it , to believe those reliques to be gods ; and therefore it must be such a worship as is given to them , supposing them to be only reliques of such persons . the council of trent decrees honour and veneration to be given to them , but never determines what is due , and what not : it forbids all excesses in drinking and eating , in the visiting of reliques ; but not a word of excesses in worshipping of them , unless it be comprehended under the name of superstition . but superstition lies in something forbidden , according to their notion of it : therefore , if there be no prohibition by the church , there can be no superstition in the worship of them . and if they had thought there had been any in the known practices of the church , they would certainly have mentioned them ; and because they did not , we ought in reason to look on them as allowed . and yet not only cassander complains of the great superstition about them ; but even the wollenbergii lately confess , that the abuses therein have not only been offensive to us , but to themselves too . but what saith our representer to them ? he believes it damnable to think there 's any divinity in the reliques of saints , or to adore them with divine honour . but what is this adoring them with divine honour ? a true representer ought to have told us what he meant by it , when the whole controversie depends upon it . is it only saying mass to reliques , or believing them to be gods ? is there no giving divine honour by prostration , burning of incense , &c. nothing in expecting help from them ? yes , if it be from any hidden power of their own . but here is a very hard question : if a man doth not believe it to be an intrinsick power in the reliques , may a man safely go to them . opis impetrandae causâ , as the council of trent saith , in hopes of relief from them ? is it not possible for the devil to appear with samuel's true body , and make use of the relique of a saint to a very bad end ? then , say i , no reliques can secure men against the imposture of evil spirits , who , by god's permission , may do strange things with the very reliques of saints . but god hath visibly worked by them , saith our author , by making them instruments of many miracles ; and it is as easie for him to do it now . this is the force of all he saith . to which i answer . . it is a very bold thing to call in god's omnipotency , where god himself hath never declared he will use his power ; for it is under his own command , and not ours . but there is no reason to deduce the consequence of using it now , because he hath done it formerly . and that they may not think this is cavilling in us , i desire them to read pere anna●'s answer to the jansenists pretended miracle at port poyal , viz. of the cure wrought by one of our saviour's thorns . there he gives another account of such miracles than would be taken from us . but where he saith , it is as much for the honour of god's name to work such miracles now ; their own authors will tell him the contrary ; and that there is no such reason now , as in former times , when religion was to be confirmed by them ; and when martyrs suffered upon the sole account of the truth of it ; and therefore their reputation had a greater influence upon converting the unbelieving world. . suppose it be granted , yet it proves not any religious worship to be given to them . for i shall seriously ask an important question : whether they do really believe , any greater miracles have ever been done by reliques , than were done by the brazen serpent ? and yet , although that was set up by god's own appointment , when it began to be worshorshipped after an undue manner ; it was thought fit by hezekiah to be broken in pieces . what now was the undue worship they gave to it ? did they believe the serpent , which could neither move nor understand , was it self a god ? but they did burn incense to it . and did that make a god of it ? suppose men burn incense to reliques ; what then , are they made gods presently ? suppose they do not , but place them upon altars , carry them in procession , fall down before them , with intention to shew the honour they do them ; are not these as much as burning a little incense , which could not signify so much honour as the other do ? and it is hard then to make the one unlawful , and not the other . v. of the eucharist . he believes it lawful to commit idolatry , and makes it his daily practice to worship and adore a breaden god , giving divine honour to those poor empty elements of bread and wine . of these he asks pardon for his sins ; of these he desires grace and salvation ; these he acknowledges to have been his redeemer and saviour , and hopes for no good but what is to come to him by means of these household goods . and then for his apology , he alledges such gross contradictions , contrary to all sense and reason , that whosoever will be a papist , must be no man : fondly believing , that what he adores , is no bread or wine , but christ really present under those appearances ; and thus makes as many christs , as many redeemers , as there are churches , altars , or priests . when , according to gods infallible word , there is but one christ , and he not on earth , but at the right hand of his father in heaven . he believes it unlawful to commit idolatry ; and most damnable to worship or adore any breaden god , or to give divine honour to any elements of bread and wine . he worships only one god , who made heaven and earth , and his only son jesus christ our redeemer ; who , being in all things equal to his father , in truth and omnipotency , he believes , made his words good , pronounc'd at his last supper ; really giving his body and blood to his apostles ; the substance of bread and wine being by his powerful words chang'd into his own body and blood , the species or accidents of the bread and wine remaining as before . the same he believes of the most holy sacrament of the eucharist , consecrated now by priests : that it really contains the body of christ , which was deliver'd for us ; and his blood , which was shed for the remission of sins : which being there united with the divinity , he confesses whole christ to be present . and him he adores and acknowledges his redeemer , and not any bread or wine . and for the believing of this mystery , he does not at all think it meet for any christian to appeal from christ's words , to his own senses or reason , for the examining the truth of what he has said ; but rather to submit his senses and reason to christ's words in the obsequiousness of faith : and that being a son of abraham , 't is more becoming him to believe as abraham did , promptly , with a faith superiour to all sense or reason , and whither these could never lead him . with this faith it is , he believes , every mystery of his religion , the trinity , incarnation , &c. with this faith he believes that what descended upon our saviour at his baptism in iordan , was really the holy ghost , though senses or reason could discover it to be nothing but a dove : with this faith he believes , that the man that ioshua saw standing over against him with his sword drawn , ( iosh. . . ) and the three men that abraham entertain'd in the plains of mambre , ( gen. . ) were really and substantially no men ; and that notwithstanding all the information and evidence of sense from their colour , features , proportion , talking , eating , and many others , of their being men ; yet , without any discredit to his senses , he really believes they were no such thing , because god's word has assured him of the contrary : and with this faith he believes christ's body and blood to be really present in the blessed sacrament , though , to all appearance , there 's nothing more than bread and wine : thus , not at all hearkning to his senses in a matter where god speaks , he unfeignedly confesses , that he that made the world of nothing by his sole word : that cured diseases by his word : that raised the dead by his word : that expell'd devils : that commanded the winds and seas : that multiplied bread : that changed water into wine by his word , and sinners into just men , cannot want power to change bread and wine into his own body and blood by his sole word . and this without danger of multiplying his body , of making as many christs as altars , or leaving the right hand of his father . but only by giving to his body a supernatural manner of existence ; by which , being left without extension of parts , and rendred independent of place , it may be one and the same in many places at once , and whole in every part of the symbols , and not obnoxious to any corporeal contingencies . and this kind of existence is no more , than what in a manner he bestows upon every glorified body : than what his own body had , when born without the least violation of his mothers virginal integrity : when he arose from the dead , out of the sepulchre , without removing the stone : when he entred amongst his disciples , the doors being shot . and though he cannot understand how this is done , yet he undoubtedly believes , that god is able to do more than he is able to understand . v. of the eucharist . there are two material points under this head which are to be examined , because he endeavours to set them off with all the advantage he can , viz. adoration of the host , and transubstan●iation . i. of the adoration of the host. . the question is far enough from being , whether it be lawful to commit idolatry ? as our representer puts it . for the misrepresenter saith , that a papist believes it lawful to commit idolatry : and to clear this , our author gravely saith , he believes it unlawful to commit idolatry . pag. . as though any men ever owned it to be lawful : which is , as if the question were , whether such a man committed adultery , and he should think to clear himself by saying , he believed it unlawful to commit adultery . . the question is not , whether christ may be lawfully adored by us in the celebration of the eucharist ; which we are so far from denying , that our church requires our receiving it in the posture of adoration . . the true question is , whether the body of christ , being supposed to be present in the host by transubstantiation , be a sufficient ground to give the same adoration to the host , which they would do to the person of christ. and that this is the true state of the question , will appear by these things . . the council of trent first defined transubstantiation , and from thence inferrred adoration of the host ; as is most evident to any one that will read the fourth and fifth decrees of the thirteenth session . nullus itaque dub●tandi locus , &c. i.e. if transubstantiation be true , then adoration follows . it 's true , the sixth canon only speaks of christ being there worshipped ; but that ought to be compared with the first , second , and fourth canons , where the doctrine of transubstantiation is fully set down , as the foundation of that adoration . . the adoration is not fixed on the person of christ , as separate from the host , but as making one object of worship together with it . and so the council of trent declares in the sixth decree ; when it saith , the sacrament is nevertheless to be adored , because it was instituted to be received this cannot be otherwise understood , than as relating to the sacrament : and so that whatever it be , must be granted to be the object of adoration . by the sacrament , saith cardinal pallavicini , is understood the object made up of the body of christ , and the accidents . the worship then being confessed to be adoration , which is due to god alone , and that adoration directed to the sacrament as its proper object ; the question now is , whether such a supposition in the sacrament , doth justifie that adoration ? our author saith , he accounteth it most damnable to worship or adore any breaden god , or to give divine honour to any elements of bread and wine . then , i say , by his own confession , if it be only bread , he commits idolatry ; for the adoration he cannot deny . but our representer loves ambiguous expressions , which to the people sound very well , but have no sincere meaning : for what is it he understands by his breaden god ? if it be that he worships a god , which himself supposes to be nothing but bread , we do not charge him with it ; but if it be what we believe it to be , the substance of bread , but himself believes to be turned into the body of christ , then he cannot deny his adoration to be given to it . all that can excuse them is , the supposition ; and whether that will or not , is now to be consider'd . . if it be not true , themselves grant it to be idolatry . the testimonies of bishop fisher , and costerus , are so well known to this purpose , that i shall not repeat them . and catharinus , a divine of note in the council of trent , confesses it is idolatry to worship an unconsecrated host , although the person , through a mistake , believes it consecrated . and he quotes saint thomas and paludanus for his opinion ; and gives this reason for it ; because christ is not worshipped simply in the sacrament , but as he is under the species ; and therefore if he be not so present , a creature hath divine worship given it . as those were guilty of idolatry , who worshipped any creatures of old , supposing god to be there , as that he was the soul of the world. they were not excused , saith he , that they thought they worshipped but one god ; because they worshipped him as present in such a manner , as he was not . and this book of hi● , he saith , in the review of it , was seen and approved by the pope's order , by their divines at paris . . if the bread were taken to be god , our author doth not deny it would be idolatry , for that were to worship a breaden god. yet here would be a mistake , and a gross one ; yet this mistake would not excuse the persons committing it from most damnable idolatry , as he confesses : why then should the other mistake excuse them , when they suppose the substance of the bread not to be there , but the body of christ to be under the species ? yes , say they , then no creature is supposed to be the object of worship . but when the bread is supposed to be god , it must be supposed not to be a creature . there is no answer to be given in this case , but that the bread really is a creature , whatsoever they imagined ; and if this mistake did not excuse , neither can the other . ii. of transubstantiation . three things our author goes upon , with respect to this . . he supposes christ's words to be clear for it . . he shews the possibility of it , from gods omnipotency . . he argues against the testimony or evidence of sense or reason in this case , from some parallel instances , as he thinks . . he believes iesus christ made his words good , pronounced at his last supper , really giving his body and blood to his apostles ? the substance of bread and wine being , by his powerful words , changed into his own body and blood ; the species only , or accidents of the bread and wine , remaining as before . the same he believes of the eucharist consecrated now by priests . this is a very easie way , of taking it for granted that the words are clear for transubstantiation . and from no better ground , to fly to god's omnipotency to make it good , is as if one should suppose christ really to be turned into a rock , a vine , a door ; because the words are every jot as clear , and then call in gods omnipotency , which is as effectual to make them good . i confess , these words are so far from being clear to me for transubstantiation , that if i had never heard of it , i should never have thought of it , from these or any other words of scripture , i.e. not barely considering the sound of words , but the eastern idioms of speaking ; the circumstances of our saviour's real body at that time when he spake them ; the uncouth way of feeding on christ's real body , without any objection made against it by his disciples ; the key our saviour elsewhere gives for understanding the manner of eating his flesh ; and withal , if these words be literally and strictly understood , they must make the substance of bread to be christ's body ; for that is unavoidably the literal sense of the words . for can any men take this to be any thing but this bread , who attend to the common sense and meaning of words , and the strict rules of interpretation ? yet this sense will by no means be allow'd ; for then all that can be infer'd from these words is , that when christ spake these words . the bread was his body . but either christ meant the bread by this , or he did not ; if he did , the former proposition is unavoidable in the literal sense ; if he did not , then by vertue of these words , the bread could never be turned into the body of christ. for that only could be made the body of christ which was meant , when christ said , this is my body . this seems to me to be as plain and convincing as any demonstration in euclid . which hath often made me wonder at those who talk so confidently of the plain letter of scripture , being for this doctrine of transubstantiation . but several divines of the church of rome understood themselves better , and have confessed , that this doctrine could not be drawn out of the literal sense of these words ; as it were easie to shew , if it had not been lately done already . it is enough here to observe , that vasquez confesseth it of scotus , durandus , paludanus , ockam , cameracensis ; and himself yields that they do not , and cannot signifie expresly the change of the bread and wine into the body of christ. for how can , this is my body , literally signifie , this is changed into my body ? if that proposition were literally true , this is my body , it overthrows the change ; for how can a thing be changed into that which it is already ? . he believes christ being equal to his father in truth and omnipotency , can make his words good . we do not in the least dispute christ's omnipotency , but we may their familiar way of making use of it to help them out , when sense and reason fail them . and therefore cajetan well said ; we ought not to dispute about gods absolute power in the doctrine of the sacraments , being things of such constant use ; and that it is a foolish thing to attribute to the sacrament all that god can do . but we must consider what he saith against sense and reason . for the believing this mystery , he does not at all think it meet for any christian to appeal from christs words , to his own senses or reason , for the examining the truth of what he hath said , but rather to submit his senses and reason to christ's words in the obsequiousness of faith. what! whether we know this to be the meaning of christ's words , or not ? and thus we shall be bound to submit to every absurd interpretation of scripture , because we must not use our senses or reason for examining the truth of what is said there . can any thing be plainer said in scripture , than that god hath eyes and ears , and hands ? must now every man yield to this in the obsequiousness of faith , without examining it by principles of common reason ? and we think we are therefore bound to put another sense upon those expressions , because they imply a repugnancy to the divine perfections . why not then where something is implied which is repugnant to the nature of christ's body , as well as to our senses ? but the question about judging in this matter by our senses , is not , as our author is willing to suppose , viz. whether our senses are to be believed , against a clear and express divine revelation ; but whether the judgment of our senses and reason is not to be made use of for finding out the true sense of this revelation ? and we think there is great reason for it . ( . ) because we have no more certain way of judging the substance of a body , than by our senses . we do not say our senses go beyond the accidents ; but we say , our senses , by those accidents , do assure us of the bodily substance , or else it were impossible for us to know there is any such thing in the world . ( . ) because christ did himself appeal to the judgment of his disciples senses concerning the truth of his own body after the resurrection ; behold my hands and my feet , that it is i my self : handle and see , for a spirit hath not flesh and bones , as ye see me have . now we think we have reason to allow the same criterion which christ himself did about the very same body . unless he had then told his disciples , that there was to be another supernatural manner of existence of the same body , concerning which their senses were not to be judges . ( . ) some of the most important articles of the christian faith do suppose the judgment of our senses to be true . as about the truth of christ's body ; whether he had really a body , or only the outward accidents and appearance of a body ? if he had not , he did not really suffer upon the cross , and so the sacrifice of propitiation there offered up to the father for the sins of mankind , is lost . there was a great controversy in st. iohn's time , and afterwards , whether christ had any real body ? those who denied it , brought revelation for it ; those who asserted it , proved it by their senses , as s. iohn himself , that which we have seen , and heard , and our hands have handled , &c. he doth not tell men , they must submit their sense and reason to the pretence of revelation ; but they ought to adhere to the judgment of their senses concerning the reality of christ's body . since therefore christ himself appealed to it , the apostles made use of it , without any caution or limitation , we have great reason to rely still on the judgment of our senses concerning the same object , viz. the body of christ. . but we must now consider his instances to overthrow the iudgment of our senses and reason in this point . . he believes christ to be god , though to senses he seemed nothing but man. do we ever pretend to judge of christ's divinity by our senses ? how then can this be pertinent , when our only dispute is about judging his body , and the substance of bread and wine by them ? and yet the senses were of great use as to the proof of his divinity by the miracles which he wrought ? which if they had been like the pretended miracles in transubstantiation , could have convinced no man , because they could never see them . . he believes the holy ghost descended on our saviour , tho senses or reason could discover it to be nothing but a dove . if there were no reason to judge otherwise , the judgment of sense were to be followed : but since the scripture declares it was the holy ghost descending as a dove , we have no reason to question that revelation . for we do not pretend that our senses are so far judges of divine appearances , as to exclude the possibility of god's assuming the shape and figure of his creature when he pleases , by moulding the substance of a real body into such a representation . thus we do not deny the possibility of an appearance of the holy ghost under bread and wine , if god thought fit , any more than under a dove ; and in this case we do not pretend that our senses can exclude the presence of a spirit under the elements ; but that is very different from the present case , for here the substance is supposed to be gone , and nothing but accidents remaining ; and no spiritual presence of christ is denied , but that of his body , the very same body which suffered on the cross. . he believes the man who appeared to joshua , ( ch . . ) and the three men to abraham , ( gen. . ) were really and substantially no men , notwithstanding all the information and evidence of sens● to the contrary , from their colour , features , proportion , talking , eating , and many others . and what follows from hence , but that spiritual invisible substances may be under the appearance of bodies , and that our senses cannot be judges of them ? which is not our question , but whether bodies can be so present after the manner of spirits , as to lose all the natural properties of bodies ? and whether a material substance can be lost , under all the accidents proper to it , so as our senses cannot be proper judges of one by the other ? but our author seems to grant this , in a natural way of the existence of a body : but he saith , christ gives to his body a supernatural manner of existence , by which being left without extension of parts , and rendred independent of place , it may be one and the same in many places at once , and whole in every part of the symbols , and not obnoxious to any corporeal contingencies . this is to me a mystery beyond all comprehension by sense or reason ; and there is certainly a great difference between governing our understandings , and giving them up , as we must do if this doctrine hold good ; for it overthrows any fixed principles of reason in mankind concerning the nature and properties of bodies . for , . we must still suppose the body of christ to be the very same individual body which suffered upon the cross ; but if it had no extension of parts , and be reckoned independent upon place , it ceaseth to be a body . it is granted , that after a natural way of existence , a b●dy cannot be in more places than one : but let the way of existence be what it will , if it be a body , it must be finite ; if finite , it must be limited and circumscribed ; if it be circumscribed within one place , it cannot be in more places , for that is to make it circumscribed , and not circumscribed ; undivided from it self , and divided from it self at the same time . which is a manifest contradiction , which doth not depend only on quantity or extension , but upon the essential unity of a body . . if it be possible for a body to be in several places by a supernatural existence ; why may not the same body be in several places by a natural existence ? is it not because extension and circumscription are so necessary to it , that in a natural way it can be but in one place ? then it follows that these are essential properties of bodies ; so that no true body can be conceived without them . . this supernatural existence doth not hinder the body's being individually present in one place : my meaning is this ; a priest consecrates an host at london , and another at york ; is the body of christ at london , so present there by virtue of consecration , as to be present at york too , by this supernatural existence ? what then doth the consecration at york produce ? if it be not , then its presence is limited to the host , where the consecration is made ; and if it be so limited , then this supernatural existence cannot take off its relation to place . . the same body would be liable to the greatest contradictions imaginable : for the same body after this supernatural way of existence , may not only be above and below , within and without , near and far off from it self : but it may be hot and cold , dead and alive ; yea , in heaven and hell at once . . what is it that makes it still a body after this supernatural way of existence , &c. if it lose extension and dependency on place ? if it be only an aptitude to extension , when that supernatural existence is taken off , then it must either be without quantity , or with it . if it be without quantity , how can it be a body ? if with quantity , how is it possible to be without extension ? . this confounds all the differences of greater and less , as well as of distance and nearness . for upon this supposition , a thing really greater may be contained within a less : for the whole organical body of christ , with all its parts , may be brought within the compass of a wafer ; and the whole be in every part without any distance between head and feet . . this makes christ to have but one body , and yet to have as many bodies as there are consecrated hosts . no , saith our author , this supernatural manner of existence is without danger of multiplying his body , or making as many christs as altars . but how this can be , is past all humane understanding : for every consecration hath its effect , which is supposed to be the conversion of the substance of the bread into the body of christ. now , when a priest at london converts the bread into the body of christ there , he doth it not into the body of christ at york , but the priest there doth it ; therefore the body of christ at london , is different from that at york ; or else the conversion at london would be into the body , as at york . but if not , what is the substantial term of this substantial change , where nothing but an accidental mode doth follow ? if there be any such term , whether that must not be a production of something which was not before ; and if it be so , christ must have as many new bodies , as there are consecrations . . this makes that which hath no particular subsistence of its own , to be the subject of a substantial change ; for this is the condition of christ's body , whatever its manner of existence be , after the hypostatical union to the divine nature . for , when bellarmin , petavius , and others of their greatest divines , undertake , against nestorius , to explain the hypostatical union , they tell us it consists in this , that the human nature loseth its proper subsistence , and is assumed into the subsistence of the divine nature . from whence i infer , that the body of christ , having no proper subsistence of its own , there can be no substantial change into that which hath no proper subsistence , but into that which hath ; and consequently the change must be into the divine nature principally ; from whence it will follow , the elements losing their subsistence , upon consecration the divinity must be united hypostatically to them , as to the human nature ; and so there will be as many hypostatical unions , as there are consecrations . and so this doctrine not only confounds sense and reason , but the mysteries of christ's incarnation too : which i think is sufficient for this head. vi. of merits and good works . he believes christ's death and passion to be ineffectual , and insignificant , and that he has no dependance upon the merits of his sufferings , or the mercy of god for the obtaining salvation ; but that he is to be sav'd by his own merits . and , for this reason he is very zealously busie in fasting , in whipping himself , in watching , in going in procession , in wearing hair-shirts , and using a thousand such like mortifications : and having done this , he thinks himself not at all beholding to god for his salvation , and that to give him heaven , will be no favour : it being now his due , upon the account of his own meritorious atchievements , without any god-a-mercy to christ's passion , or his makers goodness . he believes it damnable to say that christ's death and passion is ineffectual and insignificant : and that 't is the doctrine of devils to belive , that he has no dependance for his salvation upon the merits of christ's sufferings , or the mercy of god ; but only upon his own merits and good works . 't is his faith to believe , that of our selves we are not sufficient , so much as to think a good thought , that the grace by which we are justified , is given us purely gratis upon the account of christs merits ; moreover , that no man , how just soever , can merit any thing , either in this life , or in that to come , independant on the merits & passion of jesus christ. nevertheless , that through the merits of christ , the good works of a just man proceeding from grace , are so acceptable to god , that through his goodness and promise , they are truly meritorious of eternal life . and this he has learn'd from the apostle , ( tim. . . ) where he is taught , that there is a crown of justice , which our lord , a just judge , will render at the last day , not only to saint paul , but also to all those , that shall have fought a good sight , and consummated their course , kept the faith , and lov'd his coming . knowing therefore that at the day of judgment , he is to receive according to his works : he endeavours by good works to make his vocation and election sure . and in following this counsel , he thinks he no more offends against the fulness of the merits of christ's , or god's mercy , than the apostle does in giving it . vi. of merits and good works . for the true stating this controversie , we are to observe : . that we do not charge those of the church of rome , that they belive christ's death and passion to be ineffectual and insignificant , and that they have no dependence on the merits of his sufferings , or the mercy of god for attaining salvation ; but that they are to be saved only by their own merits and good works ; as the misrepresenter saith . . we do not charge them with denying the necessity of divine grace in order to merit ; or with asserting that they can merit independently thereupon . . we do by no means dispute about the necessity of good works , in order to the reward of another life ; or assert that christ's merits will save men without working out their own salvation ; but do firmly believe , that god will judg men according to their works . the question then is , whether the good works of a just man , as our author expresses it , are truly meritorious of eternal life ? which he affirms , but qualifies with saying , that they proceed from grace , and that through gods goodness and promise , they are truly meritorious . but the council of trent denounces an anathema against those who deny the good works of justified persons , to be truly meritorious of the increase of grace , and of eternal life . here then lie the points in difference , ( . ) whether such good works can be said to be truly meritorious ? ( . ) whether those who deny it , deserve an anathema for so doing ? as to what relates to gods acceptance and allowance , and his goodness and promise , we freely own all that he saith about it ; and if no more be meant , what need an anathema about this matter ? there must therefore be something beyond this , when good works are not only said to be truly meritorious , but we are cursed if we do not say the same . to make any thing truly meritorious , we must suppose these conditions requisite . . that what we pretend to merit by , be our own free act . . that it be not defective . . that there be an equality between it , and the reward due to it . . that there be an obligation in point of justice , to give that reward to him that doth it . and from these considerations , we deny that good works , even of justified persons , can be truly meritorious . . it is granted by themselves , that what is truly meritorious , must be a free act of the person who doth it . now the good works of justified persons cannot be said to be their own free acts , if the power of doing them depend upon divine assistance , and there was an antecedent obligation upon them to perform them : so that they can do nothing but what they are bound to , as god's creatures ; and their very power of doing it is from the grace of god. if men pretended to merit at anothers hands by what god gives , there were some colour for it ; but to merit from god himself by what he gives us , seems very incongruous . if i ow a man an l. and another knowing me unable to pay it , gives me so much to pay the debt , this is no more than what may be called strict payment , as to the creditor ; but if the creditor himself gives me this l. to pay himself with , will any man call this strict payment ? he may call it so himself , if he pleases , but that only shews his kindness and favour ; but it doth not look very modestly or gratefully , for the debtor to insist upon it as true legal payment . just so it is in good works done by the power of god's grace , which we could never have done without it ; and therefore such cannot be truly meritorious . . what is truly meritorious must not be defective ; because the proportion is to be equal between the act , and the reward due to it ; which being perfect , requires that there be do defect in the acts which merit it . but this can never be said of good works of justified persons , that they have no defects in them . we do not say , they are not good works , but they are not exact and perfect : for although the grace of god , as it comes from him , be a perfect gift ; yet as it acts upon mens minds , it doth not raise them to such a degree , but that they have imperfections in their best actions . and whatever is defective , is faulty ; whatever is faulty , must be forgiven : whatever needs forgiveness , cannot be truly meritorious . but not only their good works are defective ; but if they would merit , they ought to have none but good works , whereas the mixture of others renders the good uncapable of being meritorious , because there is so much to be pardoned , as takes away all claim of merit in the good they perform . and themselves do not pretend , that men can merit the grace of remission ; but it is very strange that those who cannot deserve to be forgiven , should deserve to have an infinite reward bestowed upon them . . there must be an exact proportion between the act and the recompence : for to merit , is to pay a price for a thing ; and in such acts of commutative justice , there must be an equality of one thing with another . but what equality can there be between the imperfect good works of the best men , and the most perfect happiness of another world , especially when that consists in the fruition of the beatifical vision ? for what proportion can there be between our acts towards god , and god's acts towards the blessed in heaven ? let the acts be of what person soever , or of what nature soever , or from what principle soever ; as long as they are the acts of finite imperfect creatures , it is impossible there should be any equality , or exact proportion between them and the eternal favour of god , which is the reward promised . . where acts are truly meritorious , there follows an obligation of strict justice , to pay the recompence due to them . but what strict justice can there be between the creator and his creatures , to recompence the service they are bound to perform ; when their very being , power to act , assistance in acting , and recompence for it , are all from his bounty and goodness ? but our author would avoid all this , by saying , that though good works are truly meritorious ; yet it is through the merits of christ , and as they proceed from grace , and through his goodness and promise that they are so ; i. e. they are truly meritorious , because it appears from all these things they neither are , nor can be meritorious . for , ( . ) how come the merits of christ to make good works truly meritorious ? are the merits of christ imputed to those good works ? then those good works must be as meritorious as christ's own works ; which i suppose he will not assert . or , is it that christ hath merited the grace whereby we may merit ? but even this will not make our personal acts truly meritorious ; and the nature of merit relates to the acts , and not to the power . . how comes the power of grace to make them truly meritorious ; when the power of grace doth so much increase the obligation on our side ? if it be said , that the state of grace puts men into a capacity to merit : we might more reasonably infer the contrary , that it puts them out of a capacity of meriting ; because the remission of sins , and the favour of god , are things for which we can never make him any recompence . ( . ) how comes a divine promise to make acts truly meritorious ? for god's promise is an act of meer kindness , which is very different from strict justice : and although by the promise god binds himself to performance ; yet how come those acts to be more meritorious of heaven , than the acts of repentance are of remission of sins ? yet none will now say , that there can be any acts meritorious of that . yet certainly there is a clear promise of pardon upon repentance , as there is of heaven upon good works : and if the promise in the other case doth not make repentance meritorious of pardon ; how can it make good works truly meritorious of eternal life ? but notwithstanding , we do not deny god's fidelity to his promise may be called iustice , and so god , as a righteous iudge , may give a crown of righteousness to all that follow st. paul's example , without making good works to be truly meritorious . vii . of confession . he believes it part of his religion to make gods of men ; foolishly thinking that these have power to forgive sins . and therefore as often as he finds his conscience oppressed with the guilt of his offences ; he calls for one of his priests , who are commonly more wicked than himself , and falling at his feet , he unfolds to him the whole state of his soul ; and having run over a catalogue of his sins , he asks of him pardon and forgiveness . and what is most absurd of all , he is so sillily stupid as to believe , that , if his ghostly father , after he has heard all his villanies in his ear , does but pronounce three or four latin words , making the sign of a cross with two fingers and a thumb over his head , his sins are forthwith forgiven him , although he had never any thoughts of amendment , or intention to forsake his wickedness . he believes it damnable in any religion to make gods of men. however he firmly holds , that when christ speaking to his apostles , said , ( ioh. . . ) receive ye the holy ghost ; whose sins you shall forgive , they are forgiven , and whose sins you shall retain , they are retained : he gave to them , and their successors , the bishops and priests of the catholick church , authority to absolve ▪ any truly penitent sinner from his sins . and god having thus given them the ministry of reconciliation , and made them christ's legates , ( cor. . , , . ) christ's ministers , and the dispensers of the mysteries of christ , and given them power to loose on earth whatsoever was to be loosed in heaven , ( mat. . . ) he undoubtedly believes , that whosoever comes to them making a sincere and humble confession of his sins , with a firm purpose of amendment , and an hearty resolution of turning from his evil ways , may from them receive absolution , by the authority given them from heaven , and not doubt but god ratifies above , the sentence pronounced in that tribunal ; loosing in heaven whatsoever is thus loosed by them on earth . and that , whosoever comes without the due preparation , without a repentance from the bottom of his heart , and real intension of forsaking his sins , receives no benefit by the absolution , but adds sin to sin , by an high contempt of god's mercy , and abuse of his sacraments . vii . of confession . we do not charge the church of rome , that in the power of absolving , they make gods of men , as our misrepresenter pretends . . we do not deny , that christ gave to the bishops and priests of the catholick church , authority to absolve any truly penitent sinner from his sins , ( which he therefore needlesly proves out of scripture ) and that such absolution is ratified in heaven . . we are glad to find that our author declares , that no man receives benefit by absolution , without repentance from the bottom of his heart , and real intention of forsaking his sins ; by which we hope he means more than attrition . but yet there are some things which stick with us , as to the doctrine and practicee of the church of rome in this matter , which he takes no notice of . . that secret confession of sins to a priest , is made so necessary to salvation , that an anathema is denounced against all that deny it , when they cannot deny that god doth forgive sins upon true contrition . for the council of trent doth say , that contrition , with charity , doth reconcile a man to god before the sacrament of penance be actually received . but then it adds , that the desire of confession is included in contrition : which is impossible to be proved by scripture , reason , or antiquity . for so lately , as in the time of the master of the sentences , and gratian ( in the th . century ) it was a very disputable point , whether confession to a priest were necessary . and it is very hard for us to understand how that should become necessary to salvation since , which was not then . some of their own writers confess , that some good catholicks did not believe the necessity of it . i suppose the old canonists may pass for good catholicks ; and yet maldonat saith , that all the interpreters of the decrees held , that there was no divine precept for confession to a priest ; and of the same opinion he grants scotus to have been . but he thinks it is now declared to be heresie , or he wishes it were . and we think it is too much already , unless there were better ground for it . . that an anathema is denounced against those who do not understand the words of christ , whose sins ye remit they are remitted , &c. of the sacrament of penance , so as to imply the necessity of confession : whereas there is no appearance in the words of any such sense ; and themselves grant , that in order to the remission of sins by baptism , ( of which st. matthew and st. mark speak in the apostles commission ) there is no necessity of sacramental confession , but a general confession is sufficient . and from hence the elder iansenius concludes , that the power of remission of sins here granted , doth not imply sacramental confession . cajetant yields , there is no command for confession here . and catharinus adds , that cajetan would not allow any one place of scripture to prove auricular confession . and as to this particular , he denies that there is any command for it ; and he goes not about to prove it , but that cajetan contradicts himself elsewhere , viz. when he wrote school-divinity , before he set himself to the study of the scriptures . vasques saith , that if these words may be understood of baptism , none can infer from them the necessity of auricular confession . but gregory de valentia evidently proves , that this place doth relate to remission of sins in baptism ; not only from the comparison of places , but from the testimonies of saint cyprian , saint ambrose , and others . . that it is expressed in the same anathema's that this hath been always the doctrine and practice of the catholick church from the beginning . we do not deny the ancient practice , either of canonical confession , as part of the discipline of the church for publick offenses ; nor of voluntary confession , for ease and satisfaction of the perplexed minds of doubting or dejected penitents ; but that which we say was not owned nor practised by the church from the beginning , was this sacramental confession as necessary to the remission of sins before god. it is therefore to no purpose to produce out of bellarmine , and others , a great number of citations , to prove that which we never deny ; but if they hold to the council of trent , they must prove from the fathers , that sins after baptism cannot be forgiven without confession to men : which those who consider what they do , will never undertake , there being so many testimonies of undoubted antiquity against it . and it is observable , that bonaventu●e grants , that before the lateran decree of innocentius . it was no heresie to deny the necessity of confession ; and so he excuses those who in the time of lombard and gratian , held that opinion . and all other christians in the world besides those of the church of rome , do to this day reject the necessity of particular confession to a priest , in order to remission , as the writers of the church of rome themselves confess . so godignus doth of the abyssins ; philippus à ss . trinitate , of the iacobites ; clemens galanus of the nestorians , who saith , they made a decree against the use of confession to any but to god alone . and alexius meneses of the christians of st. thomas in the indies . the greeks believe confession only to be of positive and ecclesiastical institution , as the late author of the critical history of the faith and customs of the eastern nations , proves . and the very form of their absolution declares , that they do not think particular confession of all known sins , necessary to pardon : for therein the priest absolves the penitent from the sins he hath not confessed through forgetfulness , or shame . and now let any one prove this to have been a catholick tradition by vincentius his rules , viz. that it hath been always received , every where , and by all. viii . of indulgences . he believes , that his holy father the pope can give him leave to commit what sins he pleaseth ; especially , if he can make him a present of a round sum of mony , he never need doubt of an indulgence or pardon for himself and his heirs for ever , for all sorts of crimes or wickedness , he , or any of his posterity may have convenience of falling into . and having this commission in his pocket , under the popes broad seal , he may be confident that christ will confirm , and stand to all that his vicar upon earth has granted , and not call him to any account for any thing he has done , although he should chance to die without the least remorse of conscience , or repentance for his sins . he believes it damnable to hold , that the pope or any other power in heaven or earth , can give him leave to commit any sins whatsoever : or , that for any sum of mony he can obtain an indulgence or pardon for sins that are to be committed by him , or his heirs , hereafter . he firmly believes that no sins can be forgiven , but by a true and hearty repentance : but that still , there is a power in the church of granting indulgences , which concern not at all the remission of sins either mortal or venial ; but only of some temporal punishments remaining due after the guilt is remitted . so that they are nothing else , but a mitigation or relaxation upon just causes , of canonical penances , which are or may be injoyn'd by the pastors of the church , on penitent sinners , according to their several degrees of demerit . and this he is taught to be grounded on the judiciary power , left by christ in his church , of binding and loosing : whereby authority was given to erect a court of conscience , to assign penalties or release them , as circumstances should reguire . and this authority he knows s. paul plainly own'd , ( cor. . . ) where he decreed a penance ; sufficient ( says he ) to such a man , is this punishment : and ( cor. . . ) where he released one ; for your sake ( speaking of the penance injoyn'd the incestuous corinthian , ) i forgive it in the person of christ. and what mony there is given at any time on this account , concerns not at all the pope's coffers , but is by every one given as they please , either to the poor , to the sick , to prisoners , &c. wherefore they judge it most charity . and tho' he acknowledges many abuses have been committed in granting and gaining indulgences , through the default of some particular persons ; yet he cannot imagine how these can in justice be charg'd upon the church , to the prejudice of her faith and doctrine ; ●specially , since she has been so careful in the ret●enching them : as may be seen by what what was done in the council of trent . dec. de indulg . cum potestas . viii . of indulgences . . they must be extreamly ignorant , who take the power of indulgences , to be a leave from the pope to commit what sins they please ; and that by virtue thereof , they shall escape punishment for their sins , without repentance , in another world. yet this is the sense of the misrepresentation , which , he saith is made of it . and if he saith true in his preface , that he hath described the belief of a papist , exactly according to the apprehension he had when he was a protestant : he shews how well he understood the matters in difference , when i think no other person besides himself ever had such an apprehension of it , who pretended to be any thing like a scholar . . but now he believes it damnable to hold that the pope , or any other power in heaven or earth , can give him leave to commit any sins whatsoever ; or that for any sum of mony , he can obtain any indulgence or pardon for sins that are to be committed by him , or his heirs hereafter . very well ! but what thinks he of obtaining an indulgence , or pardon , after they are committed ? is no such thing to be obtained in the court of rome for a sum of mony ? he cannot but have heard of the tax of the apostolick chamber for several sins , and what sums are there set upon them . why did he not as freely speak against this ? this is published in the vast collection of tracts of canon law , set forth by the popes authority , where there are certain rates for perjury , murder , apostacy , &c. now what do these sums of mony mean ? if they be small , it is so much the better bargain , for the sins are very great . and espencaeus complains , that this book was so far from being called in , that , he saith , the popes legats renerred those faculties , and confirmed them , it seems then a sum of mony may be of some consequence towards the obtaining pardon for a sin past , tho' not for a licence to commit it . but what mighty difference is there , whether a man procures with mony a dispensation , or a pardon ? for the sin can hurt him no more , than if he had licence to commit it . . he doth believe there is a power in the church to grant indulgences ; which , he saith , concern not at all the remission of sins , either mortal or venial , but only of some temporal punishments remaining due after the guilt is remitted . here now arises a material question , viz. whether the popes or the representer be rather to be believed . if the popes , who grant the indulgences are to be believed ; then not only the bare remission of sins is concerned in them , but the plenary and most plenary remission of sins is to be had by them . so boniface the th , in his bull of iubilee granted , non solum plenam & largiorem , imo plenissimam veniam peccatorum . if these words had no relation to remission of sins , the people were horribly cheated by the sound of them . in the bull of clement the th , not extant in the bullarium , but published out of the vtrecht manuscript , not only a plenary absolution from all sins is declared to all persons who died in the way to rome ; but he commands the angels of paradise to carry the soul immediately to heaven . and i suppose , whatever implies such an absolution as carries a soul to heaven , doth concern remission of sins . boniface ix . granted indulgences , à poenâ & à culpâ ; and those certainly concerned remission of sins ; being not barely from the temporal punishment , but from the guilt it self . clement viii . whom bellarmine magnifies for his care in reforming indulgences , in his bull of iubilee , grants a most plenary remission of sins ; and vrban the th , since him , not only a relaxation of penances , but remission of sins ; and so lately as a. d. . clement the th published an indulgence upon the canonization of five new saints , wherein he not only grants a plenary indulgence of sins , but upon invocation of one of these saints in the point of death , a plenary indulgence of all his sins . and what doth this signifie in the point of death , if it do not concern the remission of sins ? . indulgences , he saith , are nothing else but a mitigation or relaxation , upon just causes , of canonical penances , which are or may be enjoyned by the pastors of the church on penitent senners , according to their several degrees of demerits . if by canonical penances , they mean those enjoined by the penitential canons , greg. de valentia saith , this opinion differs not from that of the hereticks , and makes indulgences to be useless and dangerous things . bellarmin brings several arguments against this doctrine . ( . ) there would be no need of the treasure of the church ; which he had proved to be the foundation of indulgences . ( . ) they would be rather hur●ful than profitable , and the church would deceive her children by them . ( . ) they could not be granted for the dead . ( . ) they who receive indulgences , do undergo canonical penances . ( . ) the form of them doth express , that they do relate to god , & not only to the church . and this , i think , is sufficient to shew how far he is from true representing the nature of indulgences ; for we do not dispute the church's power in relaxing canonical penances to penitent sinners upon just causes . ix . of satisfaction . he believes very injuriously of christs passion , being perswaded , that his sufferings & death were not sufficiently satisfactory for our sins ; but that it is necessary for every one to make satisfaction for themselves . and for this end , after he has been at confession , the priest injoyns him a penance ; by the performance of which , he is to satisfie for his offences ; and thus confidently relying upon his own penitential works , he utterly evacuates christ's passion ; and though he professes himself a christian , and that christ is his saviour ; yet by his little trusting to him , he seems to think him to be no better , than what his crucifix informs him , that is , a meer woodden one . he believes it damnable , to think injuriously of christs passion . nevertheless he believes , that though condign satisfaction for the guilt of sin , and the pain eternal due to it , be proper only to christ our saviour ; yet that penitent sinners being redeem'd by christ , and made his members , may in some measure satisfie by prayer , fasting , alms , &c. for the temporal pain , which by order of god's justice , sometimes remains due , after the guilt , and the eternal pains are remitted . so that trusting in christ as his redeemer , he yet does not think that by christ's sufferings , every christian is discharg'd of his particular sufferings ; but that every one is to suffer something for himself , as s. paul did , who by tribulations , and in suffering in his own flesh , did accomplish those things , that wanted of the passions of christ ; and this not only for himself , but for the whole church , col. . . and this he finds every where in scripture , viz. people admonish'd of the greatness of their sins , doing penance in fasting , sack-cloth and ashes , and by voluntary austerities , endeavouring to satisfie the divine justice . and these personal satisfactions god has sufficiently also minded him of , in the punishments of moses , aaron , david , and infinite others ; and even in the afflictions sent by god upon our own age , in flagues , wars , fires , persecutions , rebellions , and such like : which , few are so atheistical , but they confess , to be sent from heaven for the just chastisement of our sins ; and which we are to undergo , notwithstanding the infinite satisfaction made by christ , and without any undervaluing it . now being thus convinc'd of some temporal punishments being due to his sins , he accepts of all tribulations , whether in body , name or estate , from whence-soever they come , and , with others of his own chusing , offers them up to god , for the discharging this debt , still confessing , that his offences deserve yet more . but these penitential works he is taught to be no otherwise satisfactory , than as joyn'd and apply'd to that satisfaction which jesus made upon the cross ; in virtue of which alone , all our good works find a grateful acceptance in god's sight . ix . of satisfaction . . he believes it damnable to think any thing injuriously of christ's passion : but then he distinguishes the eternal and temporal pain due to sin. as to the guilt and eterternal pain , the satisfaction , he saith , is proper to christ ; but as to the temporal pain , which may remain due by god's iustice , after the other are remitted , he saith , that penitent sinners may in some measure satisfy for that by ●rayer , fasting , alms , &c. . these penitential works , he saith , are no otherwise satisfactory , than as jo●ned and applyed to christ's satisfaction , in virtue of which alone our good works find a grateful acceptance in god's sight . but for right apprehending the state of the controversy , we must consider ; . that they grant both eternal and temporal pain due to sin , to be remitted in baptism ; so that all the satisfaction to be made , is for sins committed after baptism . . we distinguish between satisfaction to the church before absolution , and satisfaction to the justice of god for some part of the punishment to sin which is unremitted . . we do not deny that truly penitential works are pleasing to god , so as to avert his displeasure ; but we deny that there can be any compensation in way of equivalency , between what we suffer , and what we deserve . the matter in controversy therefore on this head , consists in these things . . that after the total remission of sins in baptism , they suppose a temporal punishment to remain , when the eternal is forgiven ; which the penitent is to satisfy god's justice for ; and without this being done in this life , he must go into purgatory for that end. of which more under that head. . that this satisfaction may be made to the justice of god , after absolution is given by the priest. so that although the penitent be admitted into god's favour , by the power of the keys , according to their own doctrine ; yet the application of the merits of christ , together with the saints in the sentence of absolution ( according to their form ) do not set him so free , but he either wants a new supply from the treasure of the church , i. e. from the same merits of christ and the saints ; or else he is to satisfy for the temporal punishment by his own penances . . that these penitential works are to be joyned with the merits of christ , in the way of proper satisfaction to divine justice . and however softly this may be expressed , the meaning is , that christ hath merited , that we may merit , and by his satisfaction , we are enabled to satisfy for our selves . and if the satisfaction by way of justice be taken away , the other will be a controversy about words . . that these penitential works may not only be sufficient for themselves , but they may be so over-done , that a great share may be taken from them to make up the treasure of the church , for the benefit of others who fall short , when they are duly applied to them in the way of indulgences . and about these points , we must desire greater proof than we have ever yet seen . x. of reading the holy scripture . he believes it part of his duty to think meanly of the word of god , to speak irreverently of the scripture ; to do what he is able , to lessen the repute of it , and bring it into disgrace . and for this end , he says it is obscure , full of ambiguous expressions , plain contradictions , not fit to be read by the vulgar , nor fit to be translated into vulgar languages : and without respect to christ , or his apostles , profanely preaches , that no ten books in the world have done so much mischief to christianity as this one : and under a vain pretence of preventing farther inconveniences , endeavours to deprive all of this spiritual comfort , of this divine food , of this heavenly light ; that so being kept in darkness , they may be also preserv'd in ignorance , and damn'd eternally . he believes it damnable in any one to think , speak , or do any thing irreverently towards the scripture ; or by any means whatsoever to bring it into dis-repute or disgrace . he holds it in the highest veneration of all men living , he professes it to be the dew of heaven , oracles of god , fountain of eternal life ; that to profane it , is to incur the guilt of damnation : and that we are rather bound to lose our lives , than concur any way to its profanation . 't is true , he does not think it fit , to be read generally by all , without licence , or in the vulgar tongues : not for any disrespect to it ; but , i. because he understands , that private interpretation is not proper for the scripture , pet. . . ii. because that in the epistles of st. paul are certain things hard to be understood , which the unlearned and unstable deprave , ( as also the rest of the scriptures , ) to their own perdition . iii. because god hath given only some to be apostles , some prophets , other-some eva●gelists , and other-some pastors and doctors , eph. . . for these reasons he is taught , that 't is not convenient for the scripture to be read indifferently to all men , but only such as have express licence , and good testimony from their curates ; that they are humble , discreet , and devout persons ; and such as are willing to observe directions in the perusing this sacred volume : that is , take notice of all godly histories , and imitable examples of humility , chastity , obedience , mercy to the poor , &c. and all such places as are apt to provoke and stir up the hatred of sin , fear of god's judgments , love of virtue , &c. and in all hard , obscure and disputable points to refer all to the arbitrement of the church , to the judgment of those whom god hath appointed pastors and doctors : never presuming to contend , controul , teach , or talk of their own sense and phansie in deep questions of divinity , and high mysteries of faith ; but expecting the sense of these from the lips of the priest , who shall keep knowledge , and from whose mouth they shall require the law , mal. . . and this caution is used , lest that the scripture coming into the hands of a presuming sort of proud , curious and contentious people , be abused and perverted ; who make it their business to enquire into dogmatical , mystical , high and hidden secrets of god's counsels , into predestination , reprobation , election , pre-science , and other such incomprehensible mysteries ; and upon the presumption of i know not what spirit , immediately become teachers , controllors , and iudges of doctors , church , scripture , and all ; and acknowledging no authority left by christ , to which they are to submit ; under pretence of scripture and god's word , make way for all sorts of profaneness , irreligion and atheism . so that 't is not for the preserving ignorance , he allows a restraint upon the reading the scriptures , but for the preventing a blind ignorant presumption . and that it may be done to edification , and not to destruction , and without casting the holy to dogs , or pearls to swine . x. of reading the holy scripture . . he believes it damnable in any one , to think , speak , or do any thing irreverently towards the scripture , or by any means whatsoever to bring it into disrepute or disgrace : but not being contented with this , he adds , that he holds it in the highest veneration of all men living . now , here we must desire a little better representation of this matter . for certainly , those who derive its authority from the church ; who set traditions in equal esteem with it ; who complain so much of its obscurity , can never be said to hold in equal veneration with those who maintain its independent authority , its sufficiency and perspicuity . and these are known and material points in controversy between us and them : therefore let them not say , they hold it in the highest veneration of all men living ; tho those thought themselves thorough catholicks , who have compared it to a nose of wax , to a lesbian rule , to a dead letter , unsensed characters , and to other things , not fit to be repeated . but we are well pleased to find them express such veneration for it . wherefore then are the people to be kept from reading it ? . he saith , it is not out of disrespect to it . but why then ? ( . ) because private interpretation is not proper for the scripture , ( pet. . . ) one would think the scripture were not kept o●ly from the people , by such a sense being put upon it ; for any one that would but consider that place , will find it must relate to the prophets themselves ; and doth he think the prophets were to be debarred from reading the scriptures ? but this is playing with scripture , and not reasoning from it ( ) because in the epistles of s. paul are certain things hard to be ●nderstood , which the unlearned and unstable deprave , as also the rest of the scriptures , to their own perdition , ( pet. . . ) now in my opinion , such men deserve more to be debarred from medling with the scripture , who make such perverse inferences from it , than ordinary readers . and if they use all other places , as they do this , they cannot be excused from depraving it . it is granted , there were then unlearned and unstable men , who misunderstood , or misapplied the writings of st. paul , and other scriptures . and what then ? there are men of all ages , who abuse the best things in the world , even the gospel it self , and the grace of god. doth it hence follow , that the gospel must not be preached to them , or the grace of god made known to them , for fear of mens making ill use of it ? if this had been the just consequence , would not st. peter himself have thought of this ? but he was so far from making it , that he adviseth those persons he writes to , to have a mighty regard to the scriptures , even to the prophetical writings , as to a light shi●ing in a dark place , pet. . . according to this way of deducing consequences , st. peter should have argued just contrary ; the prophetical writings are dark and obscure , theref●r● meddle not with them , but trust your guides : whereas the apostle , after he had told them what the apostles saw and heard , he adds , that they have a more sure prophetical word , as the rhemists translate it . how could that be more sure to them , unless they were allowed to read , consider , and make use of it ? ( . ) because god hath given only some to be apostles , some prophets , other some evangelists , and other some pastors and doctors , ephes. . . doth it hence follow that the people are not to read the scriptures ? in the universities , tutors are appointed to interpret aristotle to their pupils ; doth it hence follow that they are not to read aristotle themselves ? it is , no doubt , a mighty advantage to have such infallible interpreters as the apostles and prophets ; and all christians are bound to follow their sense , where they have delivered it . but suppose the question be about the sense of these interpreters ; must their books not be looked into , because of the danger of error ? this reason will still hold against those who go about to deliver their sense ; and so on , till by this method of reasoning , all sort of books and interpretations be rejected ; unless any such can be found out , which is not liable to be abused or misunderstood . and if there be any such to be had , they are much to blame who do not discover it . but as yet we see no remedy for two things in mankind , a proneness to sin , and to mistake . but of all things , we ought not to take away from them one of the best means to prevent both , viz. a diligent , and careful , and humble reading the holy scriptures . but , . he denies that all persons are forbid to read the scriptures , but only such as have license , and good testimony from their curats : and therefore their design is not to preserve ignorance in the people , but to prevent a blind , ignorant presumption . these are plausible pretences to such as search no farther ; but the mystery of this matter lies much deeper . it was , no doubt , the design of the church of rome to keep the bible wholly out of the hands of the people . but upon the reformation they found it impossible ; so many translations being made into vulgar languages ; and therefore care was taken to have translations made by some of their own body ; and since the people of better inclinations to piety were not to be satisfied without the bible ; therefore they thought it the better way to permit certain persons whom they could trust , to have a license to read it : and this was the true reason of the fourth rule of the index liber . prohibit . made in pursuance of the order of the council of trent , and published by pius iv. by which any one may see it was not an original permission out of any good will to the thing ; but an aftergame to get the bible out of the hands of the people again : and therefore absolution was to be denied to those who would not deliver them to their ordinaries when they were called for : and the regulars themselves were not to be permitted to have bibles without a license : and as far as i can understand the addition of clement viii . to that fourth rule , he withdraws any new power of granting such licenses ; and saith they are contrary to the command and vsage of that church , which , he saith , is to be inviolably observed : wherein i think he declares himself fully against such licenses : and that inferior guides should grant them against the command of the head of the church , is a thing not very agreeable to the unity and subordination they boast of . xi . of apocryphal books . he believes it lawful to make what additions to scripture his party thinks good ; and therefore takes no notice of the ancient canon approved by the apostles and primitive christians ; but allows equal authority to the books of toby , judith , ecclesiasticus , wisdom , and the macchabees , as to the other part of the scripture ; altho' these were always rejected by the jews , never exant in the hebrew copy , and expresly condemn'd by st. jerome , as not canonical , and never admitted by the church , but only of late years , in some of their synods , which made these innovations contrary to the sense of their ancestors . he believes it damnable to add any thing to the scripture . and yet allows the books of toby , iudith , ecclesiasticus , wisdom , macchabees , to be canonical : because the church of christ has declar'd them such ; not only in these later ages , but even in the primitive times . s. gregory nazianzen , ( orat. de s s. macc. ) who lived in the year . also s. ambrose , ( lib. de iacob . & vit . beat . ) an. . innocent . i. ( ep. ad exup . ) they were also received by the third council of carthage , an. . which approv'd all these books as canonical , can. . and was subscrib'd by s. augustine , and confirm'd in the th general synod , august . lib. . doct. christ. cap. . so that to him 't is of little concern , whether they were ever in the hebrew copy ; the canon of the church of christ being of much more authority with him , than the canon of the iews : he having no other assurance that the books of moses , and the four gospels , are the true word of god , but by the authority and canon of the church . and this he has learn'd from that great doctor s. augustine , who declares his mind plainly in this case , saying , that he would not believe the gospel , except the authority of the catholick church mov'd him threunto . ( contra ep. fundam . c. . ) now he is well satisfied , that many doubted whether these books were canonical or no ; and amongst others , s. ierom ; because the church had not declar'd them so : but since the church's declaration , no catholick ever doubted ; no more than of other books , viz. of the epistle to the hebrews , the epistle of st. james , the second of st. peter , the second and third of st. john , st. jude 's epistle , and the apocalyps : all which were for many years after the apostles time doubted of ; but afterwards declar'd and receiv'd as canonical . this he finds s. ierome expresly confessing of himself , viz. that for some time the book of judith seemed to him apocryphal ; to wit , till the council of nice declar'd it otherwise . praef. in iudith . the like he affirms of s. iames's epistle , that it was doubted of by many for several years ; paulatim tempore procedente meruit authoritatem : by little and little in process of time it gain'd authority . de viris illus . verb. iacob . for this reason he matters not what books have been reputed apocryphal by some , and for some years : but only what books are receiv'd and declar'd by the church , canonical , in what year , and at what time soever . for believing the same spirit of truth assists her in all ages ; he looks upon himself equally oblig'd to receive her definitions of the year . as of any of the precedent years : it not being possible for christ to fail of his promise , or the holy ghost to err or misguide the church in that year , more than in any other . xi . of apocryphal books . . we do not charge the church of rome with making what additions to scripture they think good , as the misrepresenter saith ; but we charge them with taking into the canon of scripture such books as were not received for canonical by the christian church ; as those books himself mentions , viz. toby , iudith , ecclesiasticus , wisdom , and maccabees . . we do not only charge them with this , but with anathematizing all those who do not upon this declaration believe them to be canonical ; since they cannot but know , that these books never were in the iewish canon , and were left out by many christian writers . and if the church cannot add to the scripture , and our author thinks it damnable to do it ; how can it make any books canonical , which were not so received by the church ? for the scripture in this sense is the canon ; and therefore if it add to the canon , it adds to the scripture ; i. e. it makes it necessary to believe some books to be of infallible authority , which were not believed to be so , either by the iewish or christian church , as appears by abundant testimonies to that purpose produced by a learned bishop of this church ; which ought to have been considered by the representer , that he might not have talked so crudely about this matter . but however , i must consider what he saith ; . he produces the testimony of greg. nazianzen , who is expresly against him , and declares but twenty two books in the canon of the old testament ; but how doth he prove that he thought these books canonical ? he quotes his oration on the maccabees ; where i can find nothing like it ; and instead of it he expresly follows , as he declares , the book of iosephus , of the authority of reason concerning them . so that if this proves any thing , it proves iosephus his book canonical , and not the maccabees . . he adds the testimony of s. ambrose , who in the place he refers to , enlarges on the story of the maccabees , but saith nothing of the authority of the book . and even coccius himself grants that of old melito sardensis , amphilochius , greg. nazianzen , the council of laodicea , s. hierom , russinus , and gregory the great , did not own the book of maccabees for canonical . . innocentius ad exuperium speaks more to this purpose . and if the decretal epistle be allowed , against which bishop cosins hath made considerable objections ; then it must be granted , that these books were then in the roman canon ; but that they were not received by the universal church , appears evidently by the canon of the council of laodicea , c. . wherein these books are left out ; and this was received in the code of the universal church ; which was as clear a proof of the canon then generally received , as can be expected . it is true , the council of carthage took them in ; and s. augustine seems to be of the same opinion : but on the other side , they are left out by mel●to bishop of sardis , who lived near the apostles times , origen , athanasius , s. hilary , s. cyril of ierusalem , epiphanius , s. basil , amphilochius , s. chrysostom , and especially s. ierom , who hath laboured in this point so much , that no fewer than thirteen places are produced out of him to this purpose , by the forementioned learned bishop of our church , who clearly proves there was no tradition for the canon of the council of trent in any one age of the christian church . but our author goes on . . it is of little concern to him , whether these books were ever in the hebrew copy . i would only ask whether it be of any concern to him , whether they were divinely inspired or not ? he saith , it is damnable to add to the scripture ; by the scripture we mean books written by divine inspiration : can the church make books to be so written , which were not so written ? if not , then all it hath to do , is to deliver by tradition what was so , and what not . whence should they have this tradition , but from the iews ? and they owned no divine inspiration after the time of malachy . how then should there be any books so written after that time ? and he that saith in this matter , as he doth , it is of little concern to him whether they were in the hebrew canon , doth little concern himself what he ought to believe , and what not , in this matter . . since the churches declaration , he saith , no catholicks ever doubted . what doth he mean by the churches declaration , that of innocent , and the council of carthage ? then the same bishop hath shewed him , that since that time , there have been very many , both in the greek and latin church , of another opinion . and a little before the council of trent , catharinus saith , that a friend of his , and a brother in christ , derided him as one that wanted learning , for daring to assert these books were within the canon of scripture ; and it is plain , card. cajetan could never be perswaded of it : but if he means since the council of trent , then we are returned to our difficulty , how such a council can make any books canonical , which were not received for such by the catholick church before ? for then they do not declare the canon , but create it . xii . of the vulgar edition of the bible . he makes no conscience of abusing the scripture , and perverting , for the maintenance of his errors and superstitions . and therefore , though he dares not altogether lay it by ; lest he should , by so doing , lose all claim to christianity : yet he utterly disapproves it , as it is in its genuine truth and purity , and as allow'd in the church of england ; and crying this down , he believes it unlawful to be read by any of his communion . and then puts into their hands another volume , which in its frontis-piece bears the title indeed of the word of god , with the names of the books and chapters ; but in the context of it , is so every where full of corruptions , falsifications , and intolerable abuses , that it almost every where belies its title , and is unfit for any one , who professes himself a christian. he believes it a damnable sin , to abuse the scripture , or any ways to pervert it , for the maintenance of errors or superstitions , and thinks himself oblig'd , rather to lay down his life , than concur to , or approve of any such falsifications or corruptions , prejudicial to faith or good manners . for this reason , being conscious , that in all ages , there has been several copies of this sacred volume , quite different from the originals in many places , either through the mistake of the transcribers , or malice of others , endeavouring by this means to gain credit to their new doctrines : he is commanded not to receive all books indifferently for the word of god , that wear that title ; but only such as are approv'd by the church , and recommended by her legitimate . and such is that he daily uses , commonly known by the name of the vulgar translation ; which has been the principal of all other latin copies in all ages , since the primitive times ; much commended by st. augustine ; and never altered in any thing , but once heretofore by the holy studies of st. hierome : and twice or thrice since , being review'd by authority , and purg'd of such mistakes , as in length of time , had crept in by transcribers , or printers faults . and that this translation is most pure and incorrupt , as to any thing concerning matter of belief , or differences in religion , is not only the doctrine of his church ; but also the sentiment of many learned men of the reformation , who approve this version , and prefer it before any other latin one whatsoever . beza in his preface to the new-testament , anno . blames erasmus for rejecting it . paulus fagius cries out against all that disallow it , ( cap. . vers. lat. paraph chald. ) ludovicus de dieu , with admiration confesses it to be most faithful , ( in not. ad evang. praef. ) causabon prefers it before the greeks text now in use ; and acknowledges that it agrees with the ancient manuscripts , ( in not. ad evang. & act. ) grotius professes to the world , that he highly esteems it , for that it contains no erroneous opinions , and is very learned ; ( nulla dogmata insalubria continet , & multum habet in se eruditionis , pr●f . annot. in vet . test. ) and for this reason , he refers his annotations generally to this translation , as he declares himself . so that , seeing this version is deliver'd to him with the approbation of his whole church , and is commended by most learned adversaries ; he thinks he has great reason to receive it , and that he may peruse it , without any danger that can come to him , from any corruptions or falsifications . and because he has not the like assurance of the english translation allowed by protestants , or any other made since the reformation , by any of that perswasion ; but sees , that there has been almost as many different translations made and published by these , as there had been men of different humours , different spirits , and different interests ; whereof none have ever approv'd the versions of any of the rest ; but cry'd out against , and condemn'd them , of many alterations , additions , detractions , and forgeries ; bucer , and the osiandrians exclaiming against luther , luther against munster ; beza against castaleo ; castaleo against beza ; calvin against servetus ; illyricus against calvin and beza . our english ministers against tindal and his fellows : and this , not upon the account of some oversights , or like mistakes , or the following of different copies ; but accusing one another of being absurd and senseless , in their translations of obscuring and perve●ing the meaning of the holy ghost , of omissions and additions , of perverting the text in eight hundred forty and eight pieces ; of corrupt and false translations ; all which in express terms , has been charg'd by great abbetters of the reformation against a bible yet us'd in england , and ordered to be read in all churches by queen elizabeth , and to be seen in the abridgement of a book deliver'd by certain ministers to king iames , pag. . . in mr. burges's apology , sect. . mr. broughton's advertisement to the bishops . and in doctor reynold's refusing before the king at hampton-court , to subscribe to the communion-book , because it warranted a corrupt and false translation of the bible . for these and such other reasons , he is commanded not to read any of these translations ; but only that , which is recommended to him by the church . xii . of the vulgar edition of the bible . . we do not dispute about the vulgar edition , whether it may not be preferr'd before modern latin editions , because of its great antiquity in some parts of it , and its general reception since the time of gregory i. but our dispute is , whether it be made so authentick since the council of trent , that no appeals are to be made to the originals , i. e. whether that council by its authority could make a version equal to the originals out of which it was made ? especially since at the time of that decree , the vulgar edition was confessed to be full of errors and corruptions by sixtus v. who saith , he took infinite pains to correct them , and yet left very many behind , as appeared by clement viii . who corrected his bibles in very many places , and grants some faults were left uncorrected still : now , how was it possible for the council of trent to declare that edition authentick , which was afterwards so much corrected ? and , whether was the correct edition of sixtus v. authentick or not , being made in pursuance of the decree of the council ? if not , how comes clement his edition to be made authentick , when the other was not , since there may be corruptions found in that , as well as the other ; and no one can tell , but it may be reviewed and corrected still ; as some of their own writers confess it stands in need of it ? . our controversy is not so much about the authority of the vulgar latin , above other latin versions to those who understand them ; but whether none else but the latin version must be used by those who understand it not ? and here our representer saith , that he is commanded not to read any of these translations ( speaking of tindal's , and that in queen elizabeths time ) but only that which is recommended to him by the church . if this relate to the vulgar latin , then we are to seek , why the common people should have none to read , but what they cannot understand ; if to translations of their own , then we doubt not to make it appear , that our translations allowed among us , is more exact and agreeable than any they can put into their hands . xiii . of the scripture as a rule of faith. he believes it lawful ; nay , that it is his obligation to undervalue the scripture , and take from it that authority , which christ gave it . for whereas christ left this to the world , as the rule of faith , and as a sacred oracle , from whence all his followers might be instructed in the precepts of a good life , learn all the mysteries of their faith , and be resolv'd in all difficult and doubtful points of religion : he is taught flatly to deny all this ; and to believe that the scripture is not capable of deciding any one point of controversy , or reconciling the different sentiments of men in religion : and thus demeans himself towards the word of god , in a manner most unbecoming a christian. he believes it damnable to undervalue the scripture , or take from it the authority given it by christ. he gives it all respect due to the word of god ; he owns it to be of greatest authority upon earth , and that it is capable of leading a man to all truth , whensoever it is rightly understood . but to any one that misunderstands it , and takes it in any other sense , than what was intended by the holy ghost ; he believes it to such a one , to be no scripture , no word of god ; that to such a one , it is no rule of faith , nor iudge of controversies . and that what he thinks to be the doctrine of christ , and command of heaven , is nothing but his own imagination , and the suggestion of the devil . and since , by the experience of so many thousand heresies since our saviour's time , all pretending to be grounded on scripture , he finds that almost every text of the bible , and even those that concern the most essential and fundamental points of the christian religion , may be interpreted several ways ; and made to signifie things contrary to one another ; and that while thus contrary meanings are by several persons drawn from the same words ; the scripture is altogether silent , without discovering , which of all those senses is that intended by the holy ghost , and leading to truth , and which are erroneous and antichristian : he is taught to believe that the scripture alone can be no rule of faith to any private or particular person ; not that there is any thing wanting on the scripture-side ; but because no private person can be certain , whether amongst all the several meanings every text is obnoxious to , that which he understands it in , is the right , or no. and without this certainty of truth , and security from error , he knows , there 's nothing capable of being a rule . xiii . of the scriptures as a rule of faith. the only thing insisted on here is , that it is not the words , but the sense of scripture is the rule ; and that this sense is not to be taken from mens private fancies , which are various and uncertain ; and therefore where there is no security from errors , there is nothing capable of being a rule . to clear this , we must consider , . that it is not necessary to the making of a rule , to prevent any possibility of mistake , but that it be such that they cannot mistake without their own fault . for certainty in it self , and sufficiency for the use of others , are all the necessary properties of a rule ; but after all , it 's possible for men not to apply the rule aright , and then they are to be blamed , and not the rule . . if no men can be certain of the right sense of scripture , then it is not plain in necessary things ; which is contrary to the design of it , and to the clearest testimonies of antiquity , and to the common sense of all christians , who never doubted or disputed the sense of some things revealed therein ; as the unity of the godhead , the making of the world by him , the deluge , the history of the patriarchs , the captivity of the jews , the coming of the messias , his sending his apostles , his coming again to judgment , &c. no man who reads such things in scripture , can have any doubt about the sense and meaning of the words . . where the sense is dubious , we do not allow any man to put what sense he pleases upon them ; but we say , there are certain means , whereby he may either attain to the true sense , or not be damned if he do not . and the first thing every man is to regard , is not his security from being deceived , but from being damned . for truth is made known in order to salvation : if therefore i am sure to attain the chief end , i am not so much concerned , as to the possibility of errors , as that i be not deceived by my own fault . we do not therefore leave men either to follow their own fancy , or to interpret scripture by it ; but we say , they are bound upon pain of damnation to seek the truth sincerely , and to use the best means in order to it ; and if they do this , they either will not err , or their errors will not be their crime . xiv . of the interpretation of scripture . he believes that his church , which he calls catholick , is above the scripture ; and profanely , allows to her an uncontrollable authority of being judge of the word of god. and being fondly abus'd , into a distrust of the scriptures ; and that he can be certain of nothing , even of the fundamentals of christianity , from what is deliver'd in them , though they speak never so plainly ; he is taught to rely wholly upon this church , and not to believe one word the scripture says , unless his church says it too . he believes , that the church is not above the scripture ; but only allows that order between them , as is between the iudge and the law. and is no other than what generally every private member of the reformation challenges to himself , as often as he pretends to decide any doubt of his own , or his neighbours in religion , by interpreting the scripture . neither is he taught at all to distrust the scripture , or not to rely on it ; but only to distrust his own private interpretation of it , and not to rely on his own iudgment , in the res●lution of any doubt concerning faith or religion , though he can produce several texts in favour of his opinion . but all such cases he is commanded to re-cur to the church ; and having learnt from her the sense of all such texts ; how they have been understood by the whole community of christians , in all ages since the apostles ; and what has been their receiv'd doctrine , in such doubtful and difficult points ; he is oblig'd to submit to this , and never presume on his own private sentiments , however seemingly grounded on reason and scripture , to believe or preach any new doctrine opposite to the belief of the church ; but as he receives from her the book , so also to receive from her the sense of the book : with a holy confidence , that she that did not cheat him in delivering a false book for the true one , will not cheat him in delivering a false and erroneus sense for the true one ; her authority , which is sufficient in the one , being not less in the other : and his own private iudgment , which was insufficient in the one , that is , in finding out the true scripture , and discerning it from all other books ; being as incapable and insucffiient in the other ; that is , in certainly discovering the meaning of the holy ghost , and avoiding all other heterodox and mistaken interpretations . xiv . of the interpretation of scripture . . the question is not , whether men are not bound to make use of the best means for the right interpretation of scripture , by reading , meditation , prayer , advice , a humble and teachable temper , &c. i. e. all the proper means fit for such an end ? but whether after all these , there be a necessity of submitting to some infallible judge , in order to the attaining the certain sense of scripture ? . the question is not , whether we ought not to have a mighty regard to the sense of the whole christian church in all ages since the apostles , which we profess to have ; but , whether the present roman church , as it stands divided from other communions , hath such a right and authority to interpret scripture , that we are bound to believe that to be the infallible sense of scripture which she delivers ? and here i cannot but take notice how strangely this matter is here misrepresented : for the case is put , . as if every one who rejects their pretence of infallibility , had nothing to guide him but his own private fancy in the interpretation of scripture . . as if we rejected the sense put upon scripture by the whole community of christians in all ages since the apostles times . whereas we appeal , in the matters in difference between us , to this universal sense of the christian church , and are verily perswaded they cannot make it out in any one point wherein we differ from them . and themselves cannot deny , that in several we have plainly the consent of the first ages , as far as appears by the books remaining , on our side ; as in the worship of images , invocation of saints , papal supremacy , communion in both kinds , prayer and scripture in known tongues ; and i may safely add , the sufficiency of the scripture , transubstantiation , auricular confession , publick communions , solitary masses , to name no more . but here lies the artifice ; we must not pretend to be capable of judging either of scripture , or tradition ; but we must trust their judgment what is the sense of scripture , and what hath been the practice of the church in all ages , although their own writers confess the contrary : which is very hard . but he seems to argue for such a submission to the church ; . because we receive the book of scripture from her ; therefore from her we are to receive the sense of the book . an admirable argument ! we receive the old testament from the iews ; therefore from them we are to receive the sense of the old testament , and so we are to reject the true messias . but this is not all : if by the church , they mean the church of rome in distinction from others , we deny it : if they mean the whole christian church , we grant it : but then the force of it is quite lost . but why is it not possible for the church of rome to keep these writings , and deliver them to others , which make against her self ? do not persons in law-suits often produce deeds which make against them ? but there is yet a further reason ; it was not possible for the church of rome to make away these writings , being so universally spread . . because the church puts the difference between true and false books , therefore that must be trusted for the true sense of them . which is just as one should argue , the clerks of the rolls are to give an account to the court of true records , therefore they are to sit on the bench , and to give judgment in all causes . the church is only to declare what it finds as to canonical books ; but hath no power to make any book canonical , which was not before received for such . but i confess stapleton saith , the church if it please may make hermes his pastor and clemens his constitutions canonical : but i do not think our author will therein follow him . xv. of tradition . he believes the scripture to be imperfect : and for the supplying of what he thinks defective in it , he admits humane ordinations and traditions of men ; allowing equal authority to these , as to the scriptures themselves ; thinking himself as much oblig'd to submit to these , and believe them with divine faith , as he does , whatsoever is written in the bible , and confessedly spoken by the author of all truth , god himself . neither will he admit of any one to be a member of his communion , although he undoubtedly believes every word that 's written in the scripture ; unless he also assents to these traditions , and gives as great credit to them , as to the word of god , although in that there is not the least footstep of them to be found . he believes the scripture not to be imperfect , nor to want humane ordinations , or traditions of men , for the supplying any defects in it : neither does he allow the same authority to these , as to the word of god ; or give them equal credit ; or exact it of others , that desire to be admitted into the communion of his church . he believes no divine faith ought to be given to any thing , but what is of divine revelation ; and that nothing is to have place in his creed , but what was taught by christ , and his apostles , and has been believ'd and taught in all ages by the church of god , the congregation of all true believers , and has been so deliver'd down to him through all ages . but now , whether that which has been so deliver'd down to him , as the doctrine of christ and his apostles , has been by word of mouth or writing , is altogether indifferent to him ; he being ready to follow , in this point , as in all others , the command of st. paul , that is , to stand fast , and hold the traditions he has learn'd , whether by word , or by epistle , thess. . . and to look upon any one as anathema , that shall preach otherwise than he has ( thus ) receiv'd gal. . . so that as he undoubtedly holds the scripture to be the word of god , penn'd by prophets and apostles , and inspir'd by the holy ghost , because in all ages , from moses to christ , and from christ to this time , it has been so taught , preach'd , believ'd and deliver'd successively by the faithful ; and never scruples the least of the truth of it ; nor sticks to assent to it , with a stedfast and divine faith ; altho' they are not , nor have not at any time been able to prove what they have thus taught , and deliver'd with one text of scripture . in the like manner , he is ready to receive and believe , all that this same congregation has , together with the bible , in all ages successively , without interruption , taught , preach'd , believ'd and deliver'd as the doctrine of christ and his apostles ; and assent to it with divine faith ; just as he does to the bible ; and esteems any one anathema , that shall preach otherwise than he has thus receiv'd . and although some may seriously endeavour to convince him , that several points of faith , and other religious practices , which he has thus receiv'd and believes , are not the doctrine of christ , nor apostolical institutions , but rather inventions of men , and lessons of antichrist , and should produce several texts of scripture for the proving it : he is not any thing surpriz'd at it : as well knowing , that he that follows not this rule , of believing all to be of christ , that has been universally taught and believ'd as such , by the church of christ ; and of understanding the scripture in the same sense , in which it has in all ages been understood by the same church ; may very easily frame as many creeds as he pleases , and make christ and his apostles speak what shall be most agreeable to his humour , and suit best with his interest , and find plain proofs for all : and make no more difficulty in producing scripture against christ's doctrine . than the iews and the devil did against christ's person , who never wanted their scriptum est ; ( it is written ; ) when 't was necessary to carry on their designs . and if there were any thing in these sort of arguments , to make him doubt of the truth of any point of doctrine , thus receiv'd ; he thinks it might make him call in question the truth of the scripture , and the bible it self , as soon as any thing else . they all standing upon the same foundation of the church's tradition , which , if it fail in one , leaves no security in any . xv. of tradition . . the question is not about human traditions supplying the defects of scripture , as he misrepresents it ; but whether there be an unwritten word , which we are equally bound to receive with the written word : altho these things which pass under that name , are really but huma●e traditions ; yet we do not deny that they pretend them to be of divine original . . we do not deny , but the apostles might deliver such things by word , as well as by epistle , which their disciples were bound to believe and keep : but we think there is some difference to be made between what we certainly know they delivered in writing , and what it is now impossible for us to know ; viz. what they delivered by word without writing . . we see no ground why any one should believe any doctrine with a stedfast and divine faith , which is not bottom'd on the written word ; for then his faith must be built on the testimony of the church as divine and infallible , or else his faith cannot be divine . but it is impossible to prove it to be divine and infallible , but by the written word ; and therefore , as it is not reasonable that he should believe the written word by such a divine testimony of the church ; so if any particular doctrine may be received on the authority of the church without the written word , then all articles of faith may , and so there would be no need of the written word . . the faith of christians doth no otherwise stand upon the foundation of the churches tradition , than as it delivers down to us the books of scripture , but we acknowledg the general sense of the christian church to be a very great help for understanding the true sense of scripture ; and we do not reject any thing so delivered ; but what is all this to the church of rome ? but this is still the way of true representing . xvi . of councils . he believes that the faith of his church may receive new additions every day : and that he is not only oblig'd to believe what christ taught , and his apostles ; but also every definition or decree , of any general council assembled by the command of the pope . so that as often as any thing is issued out by the authority of any of these church-parliaments , and order'd to be believ'd ; he thinks himself under pain of damnation , immediately bound to receive it ; and having added it to his creed , to assent to it with as firm , stedfast and divine a faith , as if it had been commanded by christ himself , and decreed in the consistory of heaven . and by this means he never comes to understand his religion , or know what he is to believe ; but by the continual alterations , additions , diminutions , interpretations , of these councils he is preserv'd in a necessary confusion , and tho he changes often , yet he fondly thinks himself always the same . he believes that the faith of his church can receive no additions ; and that he is oblig'd to believe nothing , besides that which christ taught , and his apostles ; and if any thing contrary to this should be defin'd and commanded to be believ'd , even by ten thousand councils , he believes it damnable in any one to receive it , and by such decrees , to make additions to his creed . however , he maintains the necessity and right of general councils lawfully assembled ; whose business it is , not to coin new articles of faith , or devise fresh tenets ; but only , as often as any point of receiv'd doctrine is impugned or call'd in question ; to debate the matter ; and examine , what has been the belief of all nations ( who are there present in their prelates ) in that point . and this being agreed on , to publish and make known to the world , which is the catholick doctrine , left by christ and his apostles ; and which the new-breach'd error . and by this means to prevent the loss of infinite number of souls , which might otherwise be deluded , and carried away after new inventions ; not being capable by their own knowledge and abilities , to distinguish betwixt truth and falshood , and discover the subtilties of every crafty deceiver . and in this case he believes that he is oblig'd to submit , and receive the decrees of such a council ; the pastors and prelates there present , being by christ and his apostles appointed , for the decision of such controversies . they having the care of that stock committed to them , over which the holy ghost has made them overseers , to feed the church of god , acts . . and to watch against those men , who should arise from among themselves , speaking perverse things t● draw disciples after them . ib. vers . . and he having receiv'd command , as likewise the wh●le flock of christ , to obey their prelates , and to be subject to them , who watch , and are to render an account for their souls , heb. . . with an assurance . that , he that heareth them , hearch christ ; and he that despiseth them , despiseth christ , luke . . and withal being taught , that as this way of the ancients of the church , and prelates meeting , in case of any danger threatning their flock , or any new doctrine arising ; was the means instituted by christ , and practised by the apostles , in the first planting of the church , for the preventing schisms , and preserving vnity among the faithful , and that they should speak and think the same thing , and be perfectly joyn'd together in the same mind , and same judgment , cor. . so it ought to be the means in all succeeding ages , for the preventing divisions , and conserving vnity among the faithful . and that therefore , as that controversy concerning the necessity of circumcision , ( act. c. . ) arising in the apostles times , was not decided by any private person , nor even by paul and barnabas , who nevertheless , had received the holy ghost ; and one would have thought , might have pretended to the spirit , and a heavenly light ; but by a general meeting of the apostles and elders of the church at ierusalem , who were consulted by paul and barnabas about this question . so all other disputes and difficulties of religion arising in succeeding ages , ought to be referr'd to the successors of the apostles ( whose charge , dignity and office is to continue to the end of the world , tho' they are dead in person ) who are to consider of the matter , ( acts . . ) as the apostles did ; while all the multitude keeps silence , ver . . without any one presuming on any learning , gift , virtue , prayers or inspiration , to intermeddle in the dispute , or put an end to the question : this being none of their business or obligation , but only with all patience and humility to expect the determination of their prelates and elders , and receive it with the same expressions , as those good christians did heretofore , who rejoyced for the consolation , ( acts . . ) and unless this that the apostles did , and their obsequious flock , be taken as a pattern in all ages , for the ending such-like difficulties ; he believes 't is impossible that believers should stand fast in one spirit , with one mind , ( philip. . . ) and be not carried away with divers and strange doctrines ( hebr. . . xvi . of councils . . we are glad to find so good a resolution as seems to be expressed in these words , viz. that he is obliged to believe nothing besides that which christ taught , and his apostles ; and if any thing contrary to this should be defined , and commanded to be believe , even by ten thousand councils , he believes it damnable in any one to receive it , and by such decrees to make additions to his creed . this seems to be a very good saying , and it is pity any thing else should overthrow it . but here lies the misrepresenting ; he will believe what christ and his apostles taught , from the definitions of councils ; and so all this goodly fabrick falls to nothing ; for it is but as if one should say , if aristotle should falsly deliver plato's sense , i will never believe him , but i am resolved to take plato's sense only from aristotle's words . so here , he first declares he will take the faith of christ from the church ; and then he saith , if the church representative should contradict the faith of christ , he would never believe it . . we dispute not with them , the right and necessity of general councils , ( upon great occasions ) if they be truly so , rightfully called , lawfully assembled , and fairly managed ; which have been , and may be of great use to the christian world , for setling the faith , healing the breaches of christendom , and reforming abuses . and we farther say , that the decrees of such councils ought to be submitted to , where they proceed upon certain grounds of faith , and not upon unwritten traditions ; which was the fatal stumbling at the threshold in the council of trent , and was not to be recovered afterwards ; for their setting up traditions equally with the written word , made it it easie for them to define , and as easie for all others to reject their definitions , in case there had not been so many other objections against the proceedings of that council . and so all our dispute concerning this matter is taken off from the general notion , and runs into the particular debate concerning the qualifications and proceedings of some which were called free , general councils ; but were neither general , nor free ; and therefore could not deliver the sense of the catholick church , which our author requires them to do . xviii . of infallibility in the church . he believes that the pastors and prelates of his church are infallible , and that like so many divine oracles , or petty familiar deities , they are exempt from errour , and cannot deceive . but this , especially when they are met together in a general council ; it being a main part of his faith , that then they are secure from all mistakes ; and that it is as impossible for them to decline either to the right hand or the left , in any of their definitions and decrees , as it is for god to leave heaven , and become the author of lies . thus fondly believing these to be assisted with a necessary infallibility , like gods , whom their ignorance , ill example , and debauch'd lives , to a true considerer , scarce speak to be men. as if god almighty did so blindly throw his benefits and graces amongst his creatures , that none should have a more powerful assistance of gods truth and infallible spirit , than those in whom there was least of god to be found . he believes that the pastors and prelates of his church are fallible ; that there is none of them , but may fall into errours , heresie and schism , and consequently are subject to mistakes . but that the whole church can fail , or be deceiv'd in any one point of faith , this he believes impossible ; knowing it to be built on better promises ; such as secure her from all errour , and danger of prevarication . her foundation being laid by christ , against which the gates of hell shall not prevail , ( matthew . . ) the power that protects her , being christ himself ; behold i am with you all days , ( matthew . . ) the spirit that guides and teaches her , being the comforter of the holy ghost ; who shall teach her all things , and suggest to her all things that christ has said to her , ( ioh. . . ) the time that she is to be thus protected , taught and assisted , being not only while the apostles liv'd , or for the first three , for or five hundred years next after ; but for ever , to the end of the world , behold i am with you all days , ( matthew . . ) he will give you another paraclete , that he may abide with you for ever , ( ioh. . . ) and the thing , that she is to be thus taught to the end of the world , being all truth : he shall teach you all truth , ( ioh. . . ) now being assured by these promises , that the church of christ shall be taught all truth by the special assistance of the holy ghost , to the end of the world ; he has faith to believe , that christ will make his words good ; and that his church shall never fail , nor be currupted with antichristian doctrine , nor be the mistress of errours ; but shall be taught all truth , and shall teach all truth to the consummation of things ; and that whosoever hears her , hears christ : and whosoever despiseth her , despises christ ; and ought to be esteemed as an heathen or a publican , matthew . . ) the like assistance of the holy ghost , he believes to be in all general councils , which is the church - representative : ( as the parliament is the representative of the nation , ) by which they are especially protected from all errour , in all definitions and declarations in matters of faith. so that what the apostles pronounc'd concerning the result of their council ; ( acts . . ) it hath seemed good to the holy ghost , and to vs ; he does not doubt , may be prefix'd to all the determinations in point of faith , resolv'd on , by any general council lawfully assembled since that time , or to be held to the worlds end . the assistance being to extend as far as the promise . and though 't is possible that several of the prelates and pastors in such an assembly , ( as also many others in communion with the church of christ ) should at other times , either through pride or ignorance , prevaricate , make innovations in faith , teach erroneous doctrines , and endeavour to draw numbers after them ; yet he is taught , that this does not at all argue a fallibility in the church ; nor prejudice her faith , but only the persons , that thus unhappily fall into these errours , and cut themselves off from being members of the mystical body of christ upon earth : whilst the belief of the church remains pure and untainted ; and experiences the truth of what saint paul foretold , that grievous wolves shall enter in among you , not sparing the flock : also of your own selves shall men arise , speaking perverse things , to draw away disciples after them , ( act. . v. , . ) which , as it prov'd true even in the apostles time by the fall of nicholas and his followers , as also several others : so it has been verified in all ages since , by turbulent and presuming spirits , broaching new doctrines , and making separations and schisms : but this without casting any more aspersion on the church or congregation of the faithful , than the fall of iudas did on the a●ostles ; or the rebellion of lucifer on the hierarchy of angels ; which was no more than that such wicked and presuming spirits , went out from amongst them , and were expell'd their communion , as unworthy . neither does it reflect at all on the churches authority , or make the truth of her doctrine questionable to him ; that many of her eminent members , doctors , prelates , and leading men , have been , or are great enormous sinners , infamous for their pride , covetousness , or other vices , whatsoever : the promises of god's continual and un-interrupted assistance to his church , being not to be frustrated by the wickedness of such particular men , though in great dignities . these promises being made surer to her , than ever the iewish church : which nevertheless stood firm in her authority , and the delivery of truth , notwithstanding the frequent idolatry of the people , nadab and abihu's ( consecrated priests ) offering strange fire : corah , dathan and abiram's making a great schism , and the sins of moses and aaron , and other high-priests in all her succeeding ages . nay , though all things touching religion and virtue , were in a manner run to decay , in our saviour's time , both in priests and people ; yet did he maintain the authority of the iewish church ; and commanded all to be obedient , and submit to those who had the superiority ; without calling in question their authority , or doubting of the reasonableness of their commands . the scribes and pharisees , ( says he , matth. . . ) sit in moses 's chair : all therefore , whatsoever they bid you observe , that observe , and do : but do ye not after their works . if therefore god's special assistance was never wanting to the church of the iews , so as to let it fail in the truth of its doctrine , or its authority ; notwithstanding the pride , covetousness , cruelty , impiety , idolatry , of many of her levites , elders , priests and high-priests . why should not he believe the same of the church of christ , which , ( as saint paul says ) is built on better promises ; and that it remains entire in the truth of her doctrine , and her authority , notwithstanding the viciousness of many of her governours . especially , since he 's in a manner confident , that there has been nothing so infamous acted by any priests , prelates , popes or others , since christ's time , but what may be follow'd ; nay , was out-done by the priests of the iews . xvii . of infallibility in the church . . he doth not pretend this belongs to the pastors and prelates of his church , who may fall , he saith , into heresie and schism ; but that the whole church is secured by divine promises from all error and danger of prevarication ; which he proves from the promises of the new testament , mat. . — . . iohn . , . but however the former seems to take away infallibility from the guides of the church , yet that this is to be understood of them seperately , appears by what follows . . the like assistance of the holy ghost he believes to be in all general councils , which is the church representative ; by which they are specially protected from all error in all definitions and declarations in matters of faith. now here are two sorts of infallibility tacked to one another by vertue of these general promises , which ought more distinctly to be considered . . to preserve christs church so as it shall never cease to be a church , is one thing ; to preserve it from all errors is another : the former answers the end of christs promises as to the duration of the church ; and the latter is not implied in them . . the promise of teaching them all truth , joh. . . is not made to the whole church , but to the apostles : and their case was so peculiar and extraordinary , that there can be no just inference from the assistance promised to them , of what the church should enjoy in all ages . . if the diffusive church have no infallible assistance promised , then no infallible assistance can from thence be proved for the church representative ; so that some particular promises to the guides of the church as assembled together , are necessary to prove the infallibility of councils . . it by no means proves following councils to be infallible , because the apostle said , acts . . it seemed good to the holy ghost , and to us . our author doth not doubt , but the same may be prefixed to all determinations in point of faith , resolved on by any general council lawfully assembled since that time , or to be held to the worlds end . but what reason he had for not doubting in this matter , i cannot see ; the assistance , he said , being to extend as far as the promise : but shall assistance imply infallibility ? then there must be good store , as long as the promises of divine grace hold good : but this assistance of councils is very different from the assistance of grace , for the church may subsist without councils , but cannot without grace : what general council was there from the meeting , acts . to the council of nice ? were not christ's promises fulfilled to his church all that time , when it encreased in all parts against the most violent opposition ? . no parity of reason from the iewish church can be sufficient proof for infallibility in the christian. but our author argues thus , if gods special assistance was never wanting to the church of the iews so as to let it fail in the truth of its doctrine , or its authority ; why should not he believe the same of the church of christ , which is built on better promises ? what special assistance was it which israel had , when it is said , that for a long time israel had been without the true god , and without a teaching priest , and without law ? and as to iudah , was there no failing in point of doctrine in our saviours time ? it is true they had the law intire , and that was all that was good among them ; for their teachers had corrupted themselves and the people , and made the law of no effect among them : if there were infallibility any where it must be in the high priest and sanhedrim ; but is it possible for any christian to think them infallible , when they were so grosly mistaken about the main article of their faith as to the messias , and pronounced him worthy of death ? is not this a fine argument for the infallibility of the guides of the christian church ? but the church of christ hath better promises : no doubt of it , greater promises of grace and mercy in this world , and in that to come : but what is all this to infallibility in councils ? . christ's command of obedience to those who sat in moses chair , ( matth. . . ) doth not prove the infallibility of those who sat there . yet this is alledged to that purpose ; and that men ought not to doubt of the reasonableness of the commands of their superiors . but st. chrysostom saith , our saviour speaks of the things commanded by the law of moses . ●er cathedram doctrinam legis ostendit , saith st. ierome ; not their own doctrine , but that of moses , saith isidore ; and so hilary and theophylact. maldonate confesseth , our saviours words are to be understood , not of their own doctrine , but of that of the law ; and therefore he yields the obedience here required is to be restrained to that ; all things , saith cajetan , which they teach out of moses 's chair : not all their doctrines , but as far as they were conformable to the law , saith ferus . now , can any one hence infer , that no men ought to dispute any commands of superiors , when it is supposed , that there is a rule and standard for them to speak according to ; and our saviour elsewhere doth suppose these very men to teach things contrary to the law ; as in the case of corban . would our saviour contradict himself ? or require a blind obedience in things repugnant to the law ? we do not deny a due submission to our superiors in the church ; yea , we allow them a power to determine things not forbidden ; and think obedience due in such things by vertue of their authority : but yet this is far enough from infallibility , or an unlimited implicit obedience , which would overthrow the force of all our saviour's reasonings against the scribes and pharisees , as to their misinterpreting the law , and the superstitious practises they imposed upon the people . xviii . of the pope . he believes the pope to be his great god , and to be far above all the angels . that christ is no longer head of the church , but that this holy father hath taken his place ; and that whatsoever he orders , decrees or commands , is to be received by his flock , with the same respect , submission and awe , as if christ had spoken it by his own mouth . for that his holiness ( having once receiv'd the triple-crown on his head , ) is now no more to be look'd upon as man , but as christ's vicar , whose office it is to constitute and ordain such things as christ forgot , when he was upon earth , not throughly considering , what would be the exigencies of his flock in future ages . and for this intent , he is assisted with a certain mysterious infallibility ; such as hides it self , when he is upon his own private concerns , exposes him to all the designs , cheats , malice , and machinations of his enemies , and lets him be as easily over-seen , as imprudent , as silly as his neighbours . but when he comes into his chair , to hear any publick business , then it begins to appear , and protects him from all mistakes and errors ; and he becomes immediately full of the holy ghost , though he had the devil and all of wickedness in him just before . he believes the pope to be none of his god , neither great nor little ; that he is not above the angels , but only a man. he believes that christ , as he is supreme master , governour and lord of all created things , so also of his church , of which he acknowledges him to be the founder and head. but as notwithstanding this lordship and headship of christ over all things , every father of a family owns himself to be master of it under christ ; every petty commander of a ship stiles himself master of it under god ; and every prince , king , and emperour is confess'd supreme lord and governour of his dominions under god : so also , he believes , that there is a pastor , governour and head of christ's church under christ , to wit , the pope or bishop of rome , who is the sucessor of st. peter , to whom christ committed the care of his flock ; and who hath been follow'd now by a visible succession of above bishops acknowledg'd as such in all ages , by the christian world. and now believing the pope to enjoy this dignity , he looks upon himself oblig'd to shew him that respect , submission and obedience , which is due to his place ; a thing which no body can in reason or conscience deny to any one in rule , or that has any superiority . neither does he doubt but god assists those who have this charge , with a particular helping grace , such as has a special respect to the office and function , more than to the person . such was given to all the prophets , when they were sent to preach : such to moses , when he was made god to pharaoh , exod. . . such to the seventy elders , when god taking of the spirit of moses , gave it unto them , & constituted them iudges . such to caiphas , who to council , prophesied of the death of christ , which st. iohn ascrib'd not to his person , but to his office of high-priest , job . . and this spake he not of himself , but being high-priest that year , he prophesied , that jesus should die for that nation . by priviledge of his office , uttering a truth , which he himself never meant . with such like helping grace , he doubts not , but god generally assists the pastors of the new-law , and more especially the high-priest , for the good of the whole flock . and therefore , tho' he were as wicked as caiphas , yet he is ready to tender him all respect due to his function , and obey him in every thing concerning the exercise of his charge , not for any consideration of his person , but meerly for the office he bears : it being the duty of a good son to obey his father , and of a loyal subject his king , and never to question their authority , or dis-respect them in their office , tho' for some particular vices , they may have little respect for their persons . in this manner is he ready to behave himself towards his chief pastor , with all reverence and submission , never scrupling to receive his decrees , and definitions , such as are issued forth by his authority , with all their due circumstances , and according to the law , in the concern of the whole flock . and this , whether he has the assistance of a divine infallibility , or no : which , though some allow him , without being in a general council , yet he is satisfied , 't is only their opinion , and not their faith , there being no obligation from the church , of assenting to any such doctrine . and therefore , as in any civil governments , the sentence of the supreme iudge or highest tribunal , is to be obey'd , though there be no assurance of infallibility , or divine protection from error or mistake : so is he taught , should be done to the orders of the supreme pastors , whether he be infallible or no. xviii . of the pope . . we do not charge them with believing the pope to be god ; which it seems himself did , if we believe the misrepresenter in his preface : but there is some reason to doubt whether they do not at some times give him greater honour than becomes a man. i instance in the adoration after his election , when the new pope is placed upon the altar to receive the submissions of the cardinals : but the altar , themselves do confess , to be sacred to god alone : and there they profess to worship jesus christ , as present in the host. this therefore looks too much like assuming the place of christ , and not becoming the distance between god and man. . the question is , whether christ hath appointed the pope or bishop of rome to be pastor , governour , and head of his church under him ? this , he saith , he believes , and this he knows we deny , and therefore had reason to expect some proof of it , but instead thereof he tells us how they look on themselves as obliged to shew him the respect due to his place , which he knows is not the matter in question . two things however he saith , which seem to justifie his title . . he is the successor of st. peter , to whom christ committed the care of his flock . but how far is this from proving the pope to be head of the church under christ ? for , how doth it appear that christ ever made st. peter head of the church , or committed his flock to him , in contradistinction to the rest of the apostles ? this is so far from being evident from scripture , that the learned men of their church are ashamed of the places commonly produced for it ; it being impossible ever to justify the sense of them according to their own rules of interpreting scripture , viz. by the unanimous consent of the fathers for , . thou art peter , and upon this rock will i build my church , is interpreted by many of the fathers both greek and latin , of s peters confession , and not of his person ; so by s. chrysostom , s. ambrose , s. augustine , s. basil of selucia , s. hilary , s. gregory nyssen , and theodoret ; all great and considerable persons in the christian church , whose words are plain and full to that purpose ; and so they can never produce the unanimous consent of the fathers for s. peter's supremacy out of these words . . and unto thee will i give the keys of the kingdom of heaven , are interpreted by the fathers , of s. peter in common with the other apostles ; so origen , s. cyprian , s. hilary , s ▪ hierom , and s. augustine , as they are all owned by some members of the roman communion . and , . for these words , feed my sheep , a late learned doctor of the sorbon shews , that if they prove any thing peculiar to saint peter , they must prove him sole pastor of the church , which was the thing saint gregory disputed against so warmly . but that there was nothing peculiar to saint peter , above or beyond the rest of the apostles , he shews at large from s. chrysostom , s. cyril , s. augustine , and others , to whom i refer the reader , and to the former authors . but suppose it were made to appear , that saint peter was head of the church ; how doth the bishop of rome's succession in that headship shew it self ? to that he saith , . that there hath been a visible succession of above two hundred and fifty bishops , acknowled as such in all past ages by the christian world. as such : what is that ? as bishops of rome ? that is not of weight enough to put it upon tryal ; as heads of the catholick-church ? that he knows is not only denied by us , but by all the greek , armenian , nestorian , abyssin churches ; so that we dare say , it was never allowed in any one age of the christian church . but we need not insist on the proof of this , since the late mentioned authors of the roman communion have taken so great pains , not only to prove the popes supremacy to be an incroachment & usurpation in the church , but that the laying it aside is necessary to the peace and unity of it . and until the divine institution of the papal supremacy be proved , it is to no purpose to debate what manner of assistance is promised to the pope in his decrees . our author is willing to decline the debate about his personal infallibility , as a matter of opinion , and not of faith ; and yet he saith , he doubts not but god doth grant a special assistance to the high priest , for the good of the whole flock , under the new law , as he did under the old , and produces the instance of caiaphas , joh. . . this is a very surprizing way of reasoning ; for if his arguments be good from scripture , he must hold the popes personal infallibility as a matter of faith ; and yet one would hardly think he should build an article of faith on the instance of caiaphas : for what consequence can be drawn from gods over-ruling the mind of a very bad man , when he was carrying on a most wicked design , to utter such words , which in the event proved true in another sense than he meant them , that therefore god will give a special assistance to the pope in determining matters of faith ? was not caiaphas himself the man who proposed the taking away the life of christ at that time ? was he assisted in that council ? did not he determine afterwards christ to be guilty of blasphemy , and therefore worthy of death ? and is not this a rare infallibility which is supposed to be consistent with a decree to crucifie christ ? and doth he in earnest think such , orders are to be obeyed , whether the supreme pastor be infallible or not ? for so he concludes , that his sentence is to be obeyed , whether he be infallible or no ? xix . of dispensations . he believes , that the pope has authority to pispense with the laws of god ; and absolve any one from the obligation of keeping the commandments . so that , if he has but his holy fathers leave , he may confidently dissemble , lie , and forswear himself in all whatsoever he pleases , and never be in danger of being call'd to an account at the last day ; especially if his lying and forswearing was for the common good of the church : there being then a sure reward prepar'd for him in heaven , as a recompence of his good intentions and heroick atchievements . and if at any time he should chance to be catch'd in the management of any of these publick and church-concerns , and being obnoxious to penal laws , should have sentence of death pass'd on him ; he has liberty at his last hour on the scaffold or ladder , to make a publick detestation of all such crimes , to make protestations of his innocence ; to call god to witness , that he denies unjustly ; and that as he is immediately to appear before the supreme judge , he knows no more of any such designs , and is as clear from the guilt of them as the child unborn . and this , though the evidence against him be as clear as noon-day , though the jury be never so impartial , and the judge never so conscientious . for that he having taken the sacrament and oath of secresie , and receiv'd absolution , or a dispensation from the pope , may then lye , swear , forswear , and protest all that he pleases , without scruple , with a good conscience , christian-like , holily and canonically . he believes , that the pope has no authority to dispense with the law of god ; and that there 's no power upon earth can absolve any one frome the obligation of keeping the commandments ; or give leave to lie or forswear ; or make , that the breaking of any the least divine precept , shall not be accountable for at the day of judgment . he is taught by his church in all books of direction , in all catechisms , in all sermons , that every lie is a sin ; that to call god to witness to an vntruth damnable ; that it ought not to be done to save the whole world ; that whosoever does it , either for his own personal account , or for the interest of church or pope , or whatsoever else , must of necessity answer for it at the last day , and expect his portion with the devil and his angels , if unrepented : and that no one can give leave for lying , perjury , or committing any sin ; or even pretend to it , unless it be the devil himself , or some devilish ministers of his , such as he detests in his heart , and utterly abominates . and in consequence to this believes , that whosoever at the hour of his death denies any crime , of which he is guilty , and protests himself to be innocent , when he is not so ; can have no hope of mercy : but departing out of this world , an enemy to god , and the truth , shall infallibly be receiv'd as such in the next ; and dying with a lye in his mouth , can expect no reward , but from the father of lies . and this , whatsoever his crime was , whether incurr'd by an undertaking for mother-church , or no ; and whatsoever his pretences for the denial of the truth were , whether absolutions , dispensations , the sacrament , or oath of secresie , or whatsoever else : nothing of these being capable of excusing him in lies or perjury , or making them to be innocent , and not displeasing to god. nor indeed did he ever hear of these so much talk'd on , dispensations and absolutions , from any priests of his church , either in sermons or confessions ; he never read of them in his books and catechisms ; he never saw the practice of them in any of his communion ; it having been their custom , ever since oaths were first devis'd against them , rather to suffer the loss of their goods , banishments , imprisonments , torments , and death it self , than fors●ear themselves , or protest the least untruth . and 't is not out of the memory of man , that several might have saved their estates , and lives too , would they have subscrib'd to , and own'd but one lye , and yet refus'd it ; chusing rather to die infamously , than prejudice their conscience with an vntruth . so that it seems a great mystery to him , that those of his profession , should have leave and dispensations to lye and forswear themselves at pleasure , and yet that they should need nothing else but lying and perjury , for the quiet enjoyment of their estates , for the saving their lives , for the obtaining places of highest command , and greatest dignity ; such as would be extraordinarily advantagious for their cause , and the interest of their church . and yet that they should generally chuse rather to forego all these so considerable conveniences , that once lie or forswear themselves . and is it not another great mystery , that these dispensations for lying and swearing should be according to the receiv'd doctrine of his church ; and yet that he , or any of his communion , were never instructed nor inform'd of any such diabolical point ? nay , had never come to the knowledge of it , had it not been for the information receiv'd from some zealous adversaries , such as relate either meerly upon trust , or else such as have receiv'd a dispensation of lying from the devil , that they might charge the like doctrine on the church of rome , and the pope . xix . of dispensations . here the misrepresenter saith , that a papist believes that the pope hath authority to dispence with the laws of god , and absolve any one from the obligation of keeping the commandments . on the other side , the representer affirms ; that the pope has no authority to dispence with the law of god , and that there 's no power upon earth can absolve any one from the obligation of keeping the commandments : this matter is not to be determined by the one's affirming , and the others denying ; but by finding out , if possible , the true sense of the church of rome about this matter . and there are three opinions about it . . of those who assert , that the pope hath a power of dispensing in any divine law , except the articles of faith. the gloss upon the canon law saith , that where the text seems to imply , that the pope cannot dispence against the apostle , it is to be understood of articles of faith : and panormitan saith , this exposition pleases him well ; for the pope may dispense in all other things : contra apostolum dispensat , saith the gloss on the decree : and the roman editors in the margin , refer to dist. c. lector to prove it : and there indeed the gloss is very plain in the case , sic ergo papa dispensat contra apostolum : and the roman correcters there justifie it , and say it is no absurd doctrine as to positive institutions : but the former notable gloss , as panormitan calls it , sets down the particulars wherein the pope may dispense . as , . against the apostles and their canons . . against the old testament . . in vows . . in oaths . the summa angelica saith , the pope may dispense as to all the precepts of the old testament . and clavasius founds this power upon the plenitude of the popes power , according to that expression in the decretal mentioned , that he can , ex plenitudine potestatis de iure supra ius dispensare ; and without such a power , he saith , god would not have taken that care of his church , which was to be expected from his wisdom . iacobatius brings several instances of this power in the pope , and refers to the speculator for more . iac. almain saith , that all the canonists are of opinion , that the pope may dispense against the apostle , and many of their divines , but not all : for , . some of their divines held that the pope could not dispence with the law of god , as that implies a proper relaxation of the law , but could only authoritatively declare that the law did not oblige in such a particular case ; because an inferiour could not take away the force of a superiors law ; and otherwise there would be no fixed and immutable rule in the church ; and if the pope might dispense in one law of god , he might dispense in the rest . and of this opinion were some of the most eminent school-divines , as thomas aquinas , bonaventure , major , soto , and catharinus , who at large debates this question , and denies that the pope hath any power to dispense with gods law : but then he adds , that the pope hath a kind of prophetical power to declare in what cases the law doth oblige , and in what not ; which he parallels with the power of declaring the canon of scripture ; and this he doth not by his own authority , but by gods ; he confesseth the pope cannot dispense with those precepts which are of themselves indispensable ; nor alter the sacraments ; but then , saith he , there are some divine laws , which have a general force , but in particular cases may be dispensed with ; and in these cases the law is to be relaxed , so that the relaxation seems to come from god himself : but he confesses this power is not to be often made use of ; so that he makes this power to be no act of jurisdiction , but of prophetical interpretation , as he calls it ; and he brings the instance of caiaphas to this purpose : and he adds , that the difference between the divines and canonists was but in terms ; for the canonists were in the right as to the power , and the divines in the manner of explaining it . . others have thought this too loose a way of explaining the popes power , and therefore they say , that the pope hath not a bare declaratory power , but a real power of dispensing in a proper sense in particular cases : for , say they , the other is no act of jurisdiction , but of discretion , and may belong to other men as well as to the pope ; but this they look on as more agreeable to the popes authority and commission ; and a bare declaratory power would not be sufficient for the churches necessity ; as sanchez shews at large , and quotes many authors for this opinion ; and sayr more ; and he saith the practice of the church cannot be justified without it : which suarez much insists upon ; and without it , he saith , the church hath fallen into intolerable errors ; and it is evident , he saith , the church hath granted real dispensations , and not meer declarations . and he founds it upon christ's promise to peter , to thee will i give the keys , and the charge to him , feed my sheep . but then he explains this opinion , by saying that it is no formal dispensation with the law of god , but the matter of the law is changed or taken away . thus i have briefly laid together the different opinions in the church of rome about this power of dispensing with the law of god , from which it appears , that they do all consent in the thing , but differ only in the manner of explaining it . and i am therefore afraid our representer is a very unstudied divine , and doth not well understand their own doctrine , or he would never have talked so boldly and unskilfully in this matter . as to what he pretends , that their church teaches that every lye is a sin , &c. it doth not teach the case ; for the question it not , whether their church teach men to lye , but whether there be not such a power in the church , as by altering the nature of things , may not make that not to be a lye , which otherwise would be one : as their church teaches that men ought not to break their v●ws ; yet no one among them questions , but the pope may dissolve the obligation of a vow , although it be made to god himself . let him shew then , how the pope comes to have a power to release a vow made to god , and not to have a power to release the obligation to veracity among men . again , we do not charge them with delivering any such doctrine , that men may have dispensations to lye and forswear themselves at pleasure ; for we know this dispensing power is to be kept up as a great mystery , and not to be made use of , but upon weighty and urgent causes , of great consequence and bene●it to the church , as their doctors declare . but as to all matters of fact , which he alludes to , i have nothing to say to them ; for our debate is only , whether there be such a power of dispensation allowed in the church of rome , or not ? xx. of the deposing power . he believes , that the pope has authority to dispence with his allegiance to his prince ; and that he needs no longer be a loyal subject , and maintain the rights , priviledges and authority of his king , than the pope will give him leave . and that if this mighty father think sit to thunder out an excommunication against him , then he shall be deem'd the best subject , and most christian that can first shed his prince's blood , and make him a sacrifice to rome : and he 's but ill rewarded for his pains , who , after so glorious an atchievement , has not his name plac'd in the kalendar , and he canoniz'd for a saint . so that there can be no greater danger to a king , than to have popish subjects , he holding his life amongst them , only at the pope 's pleasure . 't is no part of his faith to believe , that the pope has authority to dispence with his allegiance to his sovereign , or that he can depose princes upon any account whatsoever ; giving leave to their subjects to take up arms against them , and endeavour their ruin . he knows that deposing & king-killing power has been maintain'd by some canonists , and divines of his church , and that it is in their opinion lawful , and annex'd to the papal chair . he knows likewise that some popes have endeavor'd to act according to this power . but that this doctrine , appertains to the faith of his church , and is to be believ'd by all of that communion , is a malicious calumny , a down-right falsity . and for the truth of this , it seems to him a sufficient argument , that for the f●w authors that are abettors of this doctrine , there are of his communion three times the number that publickly disown all such authority ; besides several universities , and whole bodies that have solemnly condemn'd it ; without being in the least suspected of their religion , or of denying any article of their faith. those other authors therefore publish their own opinions in their books , and those popes acted according to what they judg'd lawful ; and all this amounts to no more , than that this doctrine has been , or is an opinion amongst some of his church ; but to raise it to an article of faith upon these grounds , is impossible . let his church therefore answer for no more , than what she delivers for faith ; let prelates answer for t●eir actions , and authors for their own opinions ; otherwise more churches must be charg'd with deposing and king-killing doctrine , besides that of rome : the university of oxford having found other authors of pernicious books , and damnable doctrines , destructive to the sacred persons of princes , their state and government , besides iesuits , as may be seen in their decree , published in the london gazette , iuly . . in which they condemn'd twenty seven false , i●pious , seditious propositions , fitted to stir up tumults , overthrow states and kingdoms , to lead to rebellion , murder of princes , and atheism it self . of which number only three or four were ascrib'd to the iesuits : the rest having men of another communion for their fathers . and this doctrine was not first condemn'd by oxford ; what they did here in the year . having been solemnly done in paris in . where the whole colledge of sorbon gave sentence against this proposition of sanctarellus ; ( viz ) that the pope , for heresie and schism , might depose princes , and exempt the subjects from their obedience ; the like was done by the universities of caen , rhemes , poictoirs , valence , bourdeaux , bourges , and the condemnation subscrib'd by the iesuits . and mariana's book was committed publickly to the flames by a provincial council of his own order , for the discoursing the point of king-killing doctrine problematically . why therefore should this disloyal doctrine be laid to his church , whenas it has been writ against by several hundred single authors in her communion , and disown'd , and solemnly condemn'd by so many famous universities ? and why should the actions of some few popes , with the private opinions of some speculative doctors , be so often and vehemently urg'd for the just charging this doctrine upon the faith of the church of rome ; which , to a serious , impartial considerer , are only meer fallacies , capable of libelling all societies in the world , of overthrowing all states and kingdoms , and only fit arguments for knaves to cheat fools withal . there being no government in the world which might not be easily proved tyrannical ; no religion , perswasion , or society , which might not plausibly be indicted of atheism ; if the actions , pretences , claims , and endeavour of some few of their governours and leading men ; the opinions , writings , phansies of some authors be allow'd as sufficient evidence , for the bringing in the verdict of guilty upon the whole . when malice ther●fore and envy have done their worst in this point , to render the papists bloody and barbarous to the world ; yet ' ds certain , after all , that popish princes sit as safe in their thrones , enjoy as much peace and security as any other princes whatsoever ; and that the papists in england can give as good proofs of their loyalty as the best of those that clamour so loud against them . they can bid defi●nce to their adversaries to shew any one person of honour and estate amongst them , or even four of any condition whatsoever that bore arms against charles the first , during the whole time of his troubles . they can make good , that there was scarce any amongst them that did not assist his majesty either with person or purse , or both . and they can say , that charles the first was murder'd in cold blood by his protestant subjects , after many hundred papists had lost their lives for the preventing that butchery , and that charles the second , being pursued by the same subjects for his life , sav'd it amongst the papists . xx. of the deposing power . to bring this matter into as narrow a compass as may be , i shall first take notice of his concessions , which will save us a labour of proofs . . he yields that the deposing and king-killing power hath been maintained by some canonists and divines of his church , and that it is in their opinion lawful , and annexed to the papal chair . . that some popes have endeavoured to act according to this power . but then he denies that this doctrine appertains to the faith of his church , and is to be believed by all of that communion . and more than that , he saith , the affirming of it is a malicious calumny , a downright falsity . let us now calmly debate the matter , whether according to the received principles of the church of rome , this be only a particul●r opinion of some popes and divines , or be to be received as a matter of faith. the question is not , whether those who deny it , do account it an article of faith ; for we know they do not : but whether upon the principles of the church of rome they are not bound to do it . i shall only , to avoid cavilling , proceed upon the principles owned by our author himself . viz. . that the sense of scripture , as understood by the community of christians in all angels since the apostles , is to be taken from the present church . . that by the present church be understands the pastors and prelates assembled in councils , who are appointed by christ and his apostles for the decision of controversies ; and that they have in●allible assistance . . that the pope as head of the church , hath a particular assistance promised him , with a special regard to his office and function . if therefore it appear that popes and councils have declared this deposing doctrine , and t●ey h●ve received other things as articles of faith upon the same declarations , why should they then stick at yielding this to be an article of faith , as well as the other . it is not denied , that i can find , that popes and councils for several ages have asserted and exercised the deposing power ; but it is alledged against these decrees & acts. . that they were not grounded upon universal tradition . . that they had not universal reception . now , if these be sufficient to overthrow the definitions of councils , let us consider the consequences of it . . then every man is left to examin the decrees of councils , whether they are to be embraced or not ; for he is to judge whether they are founded on universal tradition ; and so he is not to take the sense of the present church for his guide , but the universal church from christs time : which overthrows a fundamental principle of the roman church . . then he must reject the pretended infallibility in the guides of the church , if they could so notoriously err in a matter of so great consequence to the peace of christendom , as this was ; and consequently their authority could not be sufficient to declare any articles of faith. and so all persons must be left at liberty to believe as they see cause , notwithstanding the definitions made by popes and councils . . then he must believe the guides of the roman church to have been mistaken , not once or twice , but to have persisted in it for five hundred years ; which must take away , not only infall●bil●ty , but any kind of reverence to the authority of it . for whatever may be said as to those who have depended on princes , or favour their part●es against the guides of the church , it cannot be denied that for so long time the leading party in that church did assert and maintain the deposing power . and therefore lessius truly understood this matter , when he said , that there was scarce any article of the christian faith , the denial whereof was more dangerous to the church , or did precipitate men more into heresie and hatred of the church , than this of the deposing power ; for , he says , they could not maintain their churches authority without it . and he reckons up these ill consequences of denying it . . that the roman church hath erred for at least five hundred years , in a matter fundamental as to government , and of great moment : which is worse than an error about sacraments , as penance , extream unction , &c. and yet those who deny the church can err in one , hold that it hath erred in a greater matter . . that it hath not only erred , but voluntarily and out of ambi●ion , perverting , out of design , the doctrine of the primive church and fathers concerning the power of the church , and bringing in another contrary to it , against the right and authority of princes ; which were a grievous sin . . that it made knowingly , unrighteous decrees , to draw persons from their allegiance to princes ; and so they became the causes of many seditions and rebellions , and all the ill consequences of them , under a shew of piety and religion . . that the churches decrees , commands , judgments , and censures may be safely contemned as null , and containing intolerable errors . and that it may require such things which good subjects are bound to disobey . . that gregory vii . in the canon nos sanctorum , &c. urban . ii. gregory ix . the councils of lateran under alex. iii. and innocent iii , the councils of lyons , of vienna , of constance , of lateran under leo x. and of trent , have all grievously and enormously erred about this matter ; for that it was the doctrine of them all , he shews at large ; and so seven general counc●ls lose their infallibility at one blow . . that the gates of h●ll have prevailed against the church : for the true church could never teach such pernicious doctrine as this must be , if it be not true . and if it erred in this , it might as well err in any other doctrine , and so men are not bound to believe or obey it . . that princes and all laymen have just cause to withdraw from their church ; because it shewed it self to be governed by a spirit of ambition , and not by the spirit of god ; and not only so , but they may justly prosecute all that maintain a doctrine so pernicious to government , if it be not true . let us now see what our author saith to clear this from being a doctrine of the church of rome . . that for the few authors that are abettors of this doctrine , there are of his communion three times the number that publickly disown all such authority . if this b● true , it is not much for the reputation of their church , that there should be such a number of those who are liable to all these dreadful consequences , which lessius urges upon the deniers of it : but is it possible to believe there should be so few followers of so many popes , and seven general councils , owned for such by the disowners of this doctrine , except the lateran under leo ? the poor eastern christians are condemned for hereticks by the church of rome , for refusing to submit to the decrees of one general council , either that of ephesus , or of chalcedon : and they plead for themselves , that there was a misinterpretation of their meaning , or not right understanding one another about the diff●rence of nature and person , which occasioned those decrees . i would fain know whether those churches which do not embrace the decrees of those councils , are in a state of heresie or not ? if they be , then what must we think of such who reject the decrees of seven general councils , one after another , and give far less probable accounts of the proceedings of those councils in their definitions than the other do . . he saith , those who have condemned it , have not been in the least suspected of their religion , or of denying any article of faith. let any one judg of this by lessius his consequences : and the author of the first treatise against the oath of allegiance saith in plain terms , that the opinion that the pope hath no such power , is erroneous in faith , as well as temerarious and impious ; and he proves it by this substantial argument ; because they who hold it , must suppose that the church hath been for some time in a damnable error of belief , and sin of practice : and he not only proves that it was defined by popes and councils , but for a long time universally received ; and that no one author can be produced before calvins time , that denied this power absolutely , or in any case whatsoever . but a few authors that are abettors of it , saith our representer : not one total dissenter for a long time , saith the other : and which of these is the true representer ? the deniers of it not in the least suspected of their religion , saith one : their opinion is erroneous in faith , temerarious and impious , saith the other . and a professor of lovain , now living , hath undertaken to shew that the nu●ber is far greater of those who assert this doctrine , than of those who deny it . . if we charge their church with this opinion , may not they as well charge ours with the like ; since propositions as dangerous were condemned at oxford , july , . as held not by jesuits , but by some among our selves ? this is the force of his reasoning : but we must desire the reader to consider the great disparity of the case . we cannot deny , that there have been men of ill minds , and d●sloyal principles , factious and disobedient enemies to the government both in church and state ; but have these men ever had that countenance from the doctrines of the guides of our church , which the deposing doctrine hath had in the church of rome ? to make the case parallel , he must suppose our houses of convocation to have several times declared these damnable doctrines , and given encouragement to rebels to proceed against their kings ; and the university of oxford to have condemned them ; for this is truly the case in the church of rome ; the popes and councils have owned , and approved , and acted by the deposing principle : but the universities of france , of late years , have condemned it . how come the principles of the regicides among us to be parallel'd with this doctrine , when the principles of our church are so directly contrary to them ; and our houses of convocation would as readily condemn any such damnable doctrines , as the university of oxford ? and all the world knows how repugnant such principles are to those of the church of england ; and none can be rebels to their prince , but they must be false to our church . as to the personal loyalty of many persons in that church , as i have no reason to question it , so it is not proper for me to debate it , if i did ; since our business is not concerning persons but doctrines ; and it was of old observed concerning the epicureans , that thô their principles did overthrow any true friendship , yet many of them made excellent friends . xxi . of communion in one kind . he believes , that he is no longer oblig'd to obey christ's commands than his church will give him leave . and that therefore tho' christ instituted the sacrament under both kinds , and commanded it to be receiv'd so by all ; yet he thinks it is not necessary , for any to do so now , but priests ; because his church , forsooth , hath forbidden the cup to the laity ; and put a stop to the precept of christ who said , drink ye all of this , ( mat. . ) in submission to which church-prohibition , all the poor people of his communion contentedly rest , while they see themselves , defrauded of great part of that benefit , which christ left them , as his last will and testament : for the comfort of their poor souls , and the remedy of their infirmities . he believes , that he is oblig'd to obey all the commands of christ : and that neither his church nor any other power upon earth can limit , alter , or annul any precept of divine institution , contrary to the intention of the law giver . n●ither is the denial of the cup to the laity , a practise any ways opposite to this his belief : he being taught , that thô christ instituted the blessed sacrament under both kinds , and so deliver'd it to his apostles , who only were then present , and whom he had made priests just before ; yet he gave no command , that it should be so receiv'd by all the faithful : but left this indifferent , as is evident from his own words , where he attributes the obtaining life everlasting ( the end of the institution ) sometimes to the receiving under both kinds , sometimes under one : as when he says , if any man eat of this bread , he shall live for ever . he that eats me , even he shall live by me . he that eats of this bread shall live for ever , ( john . v. , , . ) and a curious reader may find as many texts for thus receiving under one kind , as for the other . and st. augustine was so f●r of this opinion , that he says , that christ himself administred the sacrament to some of his disciples , under one kind only , viz. to those two going to emaus , ( luk. c. last , . ) and that the apostles afterwards did often practise the like , when they assembled , to break bread , ( acts . &c. ) which places ile and other fathers explicate of the sacrament , ( aug. l. . de cons. evang ) and that this was the custom of the primitive christians , to give it under one kind , to children , to the sick , and that men on a iourney used so to carry it with them , is attested by all antient writers , and modern historians , nay , he finds , that this was the practice of the church , to communicate under one kind only , or else under both , as every one thought good , especially in all private communions , for the first four hundred years after christ : and that the first precept of receiving under both kinds , was given to the fait●ful by pope leo i. in the year . and confirm'd by pope gelasius in . not for the correcting any abuse , that had crept into the church , but for the discovering the manichees , ( who being of opinion , that christ had no true blood , and that wine was the gall of the devil , ) us'd to lurk among the christians , and receiving under the form of bread only , as the rest did , remain'd und●stinguish'd , till by this obligation of all receiving the cup , ( which they judg'd unlawful and abominab●e ) they were all detected . and , now , if a thing ( till that time indifferent , ) was for these motives determin'd by an ecclesiastical precept , and so observ'd for many hundred years , without scruple or questioning the authority ; why should he doubt to submit to the same authority : when ( upon different motives and circumstances , ) they issue forth another precept . few doubt of this in the matter of eating of strangled meats and blood ; which , thô forbid by the apostles , ( acts . ) and so unlawful , is now by another order , and upon other circumstances , become a thing indifferent , and like other things . and why then should he scruple in this , especially since there 's no injury done , nor he defrauded of any thing . for believing the real presence of christ in the sacrament , he cons●quently believes whole and living iesus to be entirely contain'd under either species : and that ( receiving under one kind , ) he is truly partaker of the whole sacrament , and not depriv'd of other the body or blood of christ. xxi . of communion in one kind . for our better proceeding in this controversie , i shall set down the state of it as clearly as i can . . the question is not , whether the first institution of the sacrament of the eucharist by jesus christ , were in one kind , or two ; for all confess it was under both kinds . . it is not . whether both kinds are not still necessary for the due celebration of it ; for it is granted that both kinds are necessary to be upon the altar , or else there could be no compleat sacrifice . . it is not , whether the people may be wholly excluded from both kinds , and so the sacrifice only remain : for they grant that the people are bound to communicate in one kind . . it is not concerning any peculiar and extraordinary cases , where no wine is to be had , or there be a particular aversion to it , or any such thing , where positive institutions may be reasonably presumed to have no force : but concerning the publick and solemn celebration , and participation of it in the christian church . . it is not concerning the meer disuse or neglect of it , but concerning the lawfulness of excluding the people from both kinds , by the churches prohibition , notwithstanding the institution of it by christ in both kinds , with a command to keep up the celebration of it to his second coming . here now consists the point in controversie , whether the church being obliged to keep up the institution in both kinds , be not equally obliged to distribute both as our saviour did , to as many as partake of it ? our author not denying the institution , or the continuance of it , saith , our saviour left it indifferent to receive it in one kind , or both . and that is the point to be examined . . he saith , christ delivered it to his apostles , who only were then present , and whom he made priests just before : yet he gave no command that it should be so received by all the faithful . but were not the apostles all the faithful then present ? i pray in what capacity did they then receive it ? as priests ? how did they receive the bread before the hoc facite ? as priests or as faithful ? it is ridiculous to suppose the hoc facite changed their capacity ; and if ●t did , it only relates to consecrating , and not to receiving : but if christ gave it only to the apostles as priests , then for all that i can see , the people are not at all concerned in one kind or other ; but it was intended only for priests : if the people be concerned , how came they to be so ? where is there any command but what refers to the first institution ? and it had been more plausible , according to this answer , to exclude the people wholly , than to admit them to one kind , and to debar them the other . . christ attributes the obtaining life everlasting , the end of the institution , sometimes to receiving under both kinds , sometimes under one , john . , , . he could not easily have thought of any thing more against himself ; for our saviour there makes it as necessary to drink his blood , as to eat his flesh , verily , verily , i say unto you , except ye eat the flesh of the son of man , and drink his blood , ye have no life in you : if this be understood of the sacrament , as he saith , how is it possible for him to make the cup indifferent ? unless it be indifferent whether the people be saved or not . . christ himself administred the sacrament to some of his disciples under one kind only , luke . . but is he sure christ did then administer the sacrament to them ? or that if he did , the cup was not implied , since breaking of bread , when taken for an ordinary meal in scripture , doth not exclude drinking at it ? but s. augustin , he saith , ( l. . de consensu evangel . ) understands that place of the sacrament . if he doth , it cannot be where he saith ; for s. augustin wrote but four books of that subject : but l. . . he doth say something towards it ; yet s. augustin in another place supposes that these disciples did both eat and drink . the disciples did not know him , but in the breaking of bread ; and truly he that doth not eat and drink iudgment to himself , doth in the breaking of bread own christ. whe●e it is plain , that he applies both , to the breaking of bread here spoken of . . he saith , it was the custom of the primitive christians to give it under one kind to children , the sick , and to men in a iourney . i would he had produced his authorities to prove these things ; for i can bring several to prove the direct contrary as to children , and sick p●rsons , and travellers , and not only ancient writers , but the most learned of their own church . and therefore i cannot but wonder to find him saying , this was attested by all ancient writers , and modern historians . but i have ever found those have been most mistaken , who produce all writers and historians ; when it may be , there is not one that speaks home to the business . at least , we have here none mentioned , and therefore none to examine ; and it would be too hard a task to search all. . he adds to this extravagancy , in saying , that receiving in one or both kinds , was indifferent for the ●irst four hundred years ; when the contrary is so manifest , that the most ingenious of their own writers confess it . if any persons did carry home one kind ( which is very questionable ; for baronius and albaspinaeus say , they carried both kinds ) to receive it in times of persecution , at what season they thought fit afterwards ; this ought not to be set up against the general and constant rule of the church ; which is attested , not only by cassander , and such like , but even by salmero , ruardus tapperus , and lindanus , who make no scruple of saying , the publick celebration in the primitive church was in both kinds . but then , how is it possible for us to judge better , what they thought themselves bound to do , than what they constantly observed in all their publick celebrations ? the church is not accountable for the particular fancies or s●perstitions of men ; but what was observed in all publ●ck offices , we have reason to think the church thought it self obliged so to do , out of regard to the institution of christ. and to shew how un●versal this observation was in the church , those who give account of the eastern church say , that the greeks , nestorians , armenians , maronites , cophtites and abyssins , do all observe it still , viz. that the publ●ck communicants do partake of both kinds . and not one of all these churches , but think themselves bound to observe it , out of regard to the institution of christ ; and why then should any think the pr●m●tive church thought it indifferent ? . the first precept of receiving under both kinds , was given to the faithful by pope leo , a. d. . and confirmed by g●l●sius , a. d. . this is a great mistake , for leo gave no precept ab●ut it ; but only told the people how they might certainly discover the manichees , for they would conform in other things , but they would not taste of the wine ; which argued , that all other communicants did then partake in both kinds . gelasius not only confirms the custom then used , but he saith , that it is sacriledge to divide that holy mystery . and sur●ly he did not account sacriledge an indifferent thing . . lastly he saith , that those who receive in one kind are truly partakers of the whole sacrament . this is a new way of concomitancy ; we used to hear of whole christ under either species , and that whole christ was therefore received ; but how comes it to be the whole sacrament which consists of two distinct parts ? and if it be a sacrifice , the blood must be separated from the body , else the blood of christ is not considered as sh●d , and so the notion of the sacrifice will be lost : which is our next head. xxii . of the mass . he believes an insufficiency in the sacrifice made by christ upon the cross : and that his death will little avail us in order to our redemption , unless we , by daily sacrificing him to his father , perfect what he began : and therefore little taking notice of st. paul 's words to the hebrews , ( chap. . . ) where he says , that christ our high-priest by one oblat●on , hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified : he thinks he shall never be sanctified , but by the offering made by his mass priest upon their altars , when they say mass ; and thus wholly relying upon this superstition , ( an invention of some crafty p●pe for the deceiving w●dows and credul●us women , ) he is taught to neglect the passi●n of christ and to put no hopes in his merits , and the work of our redemption . he believes that the sacrifice made by christ upon the cross was altogether sufficient : that by it he sav'd and redeem'd us , paying the debt of sin , and satisfying the infinite iustice of his father : that by it he procur'd means for our salvation ; which means are faith and good works , and most honourable to god is the offering a sacrifice . and as christ's worshipping of god , christ's fasting , christ's praying and suffering for us , does not hinder or evacuate our worshipping of god , our fasting , our suffering , our praying , for our selves . so neither did his sacrifice hinder or evacuate all sacrifices for ever . but as he instituted ●asting , praying , and suffering for his followers , th●t by so doing they might apply what he did to themselves ; so a●so he instituted a sacrifice ; that by it they might apply the merits of his sacrifice , and make it beneficial to their souls . so that though he firmly believes , that christ offered sacrifice for our redemption , and by one only offering , ( spoken of by st. paul ) perfected by way of redemption the sanctification of all those that are sanctified ; yet he also believes , that to receive the ben●fit of this offering , we must also do our parts , by our good works concurring with christ , so becoming labourers together with god , cor. . , and in some manner purifying our own selves , john . . and therefore not omit the best of all works , which is sacrifice , proper to none but god : which our saviour iesus christ instituted at ●is last supper , when leaving unto us his body and blood under two distinct species of bread and wine , he bequeath'd , as a legacy to his apostles , not only a sacrament , but also a sacrifice : a commemorative sacrifice , lively representing , in an unbloody manner , the bloody sacrifice which was offered for us upon the cross ; and by a distinction of the symbols , distinctly shewing his death ( christ's ) until he come . this he gave in charge to his apostles , as to the first and chief priests of the new testament , and to their successors to offer ; commanding them to do the same thing he had there done at his last supper , in commemoration of him . and this is the oblation , or sacrifice of the mass , which has been observ'd , perform'd , frequented by the faithful in all ag●s , attested by the general consent of ancient canons , universal tradition , councils , and the pract●ce of the whole church , mention'd and allow'd of by all the fathers greek and latin ; and never call'd into question but of l●te years ; being that pure offering which malachy , ( prophecying of christ ) foretold should be offer'd among the gentiles in every place , mal. . . as it is understood by several fathers , and particularly , s. cypr. l. . c. . advers . iud. s. ierom , s. theodoret . s. cyril , in their commentaries upon this text : s. augustine , l. . c. . de civit. s. chrysost. in psal. . and others . of the mass . under this head , which is thought of so great cons●quence in the roman church , i expected a fuller representation than i here find ; as about the opus operatum , i. e. how far the meer act is effectual : about their solitary masses , when no person receives but the priest ; about the people having so little to do , or understand , in all the other parts of the mass ; about the rites and ceremonies of the mass , how useful and important they are ; about reconciling the present canon of the mass , with the present practises ; about offering up masses for the honour of saints . all which we find in the council of trent , but are omitted by our representer ; who speaks of the mass , as tho there were no controversie about it , but only concerning the sacrifice there supposed to be offered up , and which he is far from true representing : for the council of trent not only affirms a true proper propitiatory sacrifice to be there offered up for the quick and dead , but denounces anathema's against those that deny it . so that the question is not , whether the eucharist may not in the sense of antiquity be allowed to be a commemorative sacrifice , as it takes in the whole action ; but whether in the mass there be such a representation made to god of christ's sacrifice , as to be it self a true and propitiatory sacrifice for the sins of the q●ick and the dead ? now , all that our representer saith to the purpose , is , . that christ bequeathed his body and blood at his last supper under the species of bread and wine , not only a sacrament , but also a sacrifice . i had thought it had been more proper to have offered a sacrifice , than to have bequeathed it . and this ought to have been proved as the foundation of this sacrifice , viz. that christ did at his last supper offer up his body and blood , as a propitiatory sacrifice to god. and then what need his suffering on the cross ? . he gave this in charge to his apostles , as the first and chief priests of the new-testament , and to their successors , to offer . but where ? when ? and how ? for we read nothing at all of it in scripture . christ indeed did bid them do the same thing he had there done in his last supper . but did he the offer up himself , or not ? if not , how can the sacrifice be drawn from his action ? if he did , it is impossible to prove the necessi●y of his dying afterwards . . this sacrifice was never questioned till of late years . we say , it was never determined to be a propitiatory sacrifice , till of late . we do not deny the fathers interpreting mal. . . of an offering under the gospel ; but they generally understand it of spiritual and eucharistical sacr●fices ; and although some of them , by way of accommodation , do apply it to the eucharist , yet not one of them doth make it a propitiatory sacrifice , which was the thing to be proved : for , we have no mind to dispute about metaphorical sacrifices , when the council of trent so positively decrees it to be a true , proper , and propitiatory sacrifice . xxiii . of purgatory . he believes , ( contrary to all reason , ) the word of god , and all antiquity , that ( besides heaven and hell , ) there is a third place , which his church is pleas'd to call purgatory ; a place intended purely for those of his communion , wh●re they may easily have admittance after this life , without danger of falling into hell ; for , that though hell was designed first , for the punishment of sinners ; yet ( that now , since the blessed discovery of purgatory , ) hell may easily be skip'd over , and an eternal damnation avoided , for an exchange of some short penalty undergone in this pope's prison ; where he never need fear to be detained long ; for that , if he has but a friend left behind him , that will but say a few hail-maries for his soul , or in his testament did but remember to order a small sum to be presented to some m●ss priest , he never need doubt of being soon releas'd ; for that a golden k●y will as infallibly open the gates of purgatory as of any other prison wha●soever . he believes it damnable to admit of any thing for faith that is contrary to reason , the word of god , and all antiquity ; and that the being of a third place , ( call'd purgatory , ) is so far from being contrary to all , or any of these , that it is attested , confirm'd and establish'd by them all . 't is expresly in the d. of the maccabees , c . where money was sent to hierusalem , that sacrifices might be offered for the slain : and ' ●is recommended as a holy cogitation to pray for the dead . now though these books are not thought canonical by some , yet st. augustine held them as such , and says they are so received by the church , ( l. . de civit. ) but whether so , or no , one thing is allow'd by all , viz. that they contain nothing contrary to faith , and that they were cited by the antient fathers for the confutation of errors , forming of good manners , and the explication of the christian doctrine : thus were they us'd by origen for condemnation of the valentinian hereticks , ( orig. in cap . ep. ad rom. ) thus by st. cyprian , ( lib. de exhor . mart. c. . ) thus by euseb. caesariensis . ) lib. praepar . evang. . c. . ) thus by st. greg. naz. ambros. &c. and he is in a manner certain that the books would never have been put to this use by these holy and learned f●thers ; they would never with such confidence have produc'd their authority , nor would they have been read by the church in those golden times , had this doctrine of a third place , ( and of prayers for the dead , which they maintain , ) been any idle superstition , a meer dream , contrary to reason , the word of god , and antiquity ; or had it been any error at all . the being also of a third place is plainly intimated by our saviour , ( matth. . . ) where he says , whosoever speaks against the holy ghost , it shall not be forgiven him , neither in this world , neither in the world to come . by which words christ evidently supposes , that ( though these shall not ) yet some sins are forgiven in the world to come : which since it cannot be in heaven , where no sin enters ; nor in hell , whence there is no redemption ; it must necess●rily be some middlestate : and in this sense it was understood by st. augustine nigh twelve hundred years ago , as is manifest in his works , ( civ . dei , l. . c. , & . & lib. . cont . iulian. c. . ) so also by st. gregory the great , ( l. . diacl . c. . ) so by st. bernard against the hereticks of his time . in the same manner does st. augustine understand those words of st. paul , ( cor. . . ) he himself shall be saved ; yet so as by fire . where he thinks him to speak of a purging fire , ( aug. in psal. . ) so the same father understands that prison of which st. peter speaks , ( pet. . . ) to be some place of temporal chastis●ment , ( aug. ep. . ) and if this great doctor of the chu●ch in those purer times , found so often in the bible , a place of pains after this life , from whence there was release ; how can any one say , without great presumption , that the being of a third place is contrary to the word of god ? neither can the antiquity of this doctrine be more justly call'd in question , of which is found so early mention , not only by this holy father , but even by others his predecessors , the disciples of the apostles , and the best witnesses of their doctrine , ( dionys. l. de eccl. hier. c. . in actis ss . perpet . & felicit . mention'd and approv'd by s. aug. l. . de anima & ejus orig. c. . l. . c. . & l. . c. . tertul. l. de cor. mil. c. . cypr. ep. . ad cler. arnob. l. . cont . gent. pag. ult . ) and many others quoted at length by the learned natalis alixand . tom. . hist. eccl. dissert . ) and as for the reason of this tenet , he is bound to think it does not want it , since he finds it abetted by such virtuous , learned and considering men , whom he dares not reckon fools ; never hearing , that these us'd to believe , but upon very good ground● and substantial reasons . and he thinks he is able to give some himself , by what he has learned from the scriptures , and these fathers . for having been taught by these ; first , that when a sinner is reconci●'d to god , though the eternal punishment due to his sins , is always remitted , yet there sometimes remains a temporal penalty to be undergone . as in the case of the israelites . ( num. . ) who by moses's prayers obtained pardon for their murmuring , and yet were excluded the land of canaan . as in the case of david , ( sam. . ) who was punish'd in the loss of his child , after his sin was forgiven . secondly , that there are some sins , which of their own nature are light and venial , such as cool the fervour of charity , but do not extinguish it , from which even holy men are not exempt , and of which it is said , that the iust man falls seven times , ( augustin . enchir. c. . & lib. quaest. oct. tr . . . ) thirdly , that to all sins , whether great or small , some penalty is due to the iustice of god ; who as he has mercy to forgive , has also iustice to punish : so that as st. augustin says , ( ●n ennar . in psal. . ) whosoever seeks to god for mercy , must remember that he is just , and that his sin shall not pass unpunished . fourthly , that generally speaking , few men depart out of this life , but either with the guilt of some light offences and venial sins , or else obnoxious to some temporal punishment due to former sins forgiven . from these heads , discourse leads him immediately to the necessity of some third place . for since the infinite goodness of god can admit nothing into heaven , which is not clean , and pure from all sin both great and small : and his i●finite iustice can permit none to receive the reward of bliss , who as yet are not out of debt , but have something in iustice to suffer : there must of necessity be some place or state , where souls , departing this life , pardon'd as to the eternal guilt or pain , yet obnoxious to some temporal penalty , or with the gu●lt of some venial faults , are purg'd and purify'd before their admittance into heaven . and this is what he is taught concerning purgatory . which , though he knows not , where it is ; of what nature the pains are , or how long each soul is detained there ? yet he believes , that those , that are in this place , being the living members of jesus christ , are reliev'd by the prayers of their fellow-members here on earth ; and that the charitable works perform'd upon their death-bed , and the alms dispos'd on in their last will , are very available afterwards in order to their speedier release . xxiii . of pvrgatory . here our author begins with proving from scripture and ant●quity , and then undertakes to explain the d●ctrine of purgatory from substantial reasons . . as to his proof from scripture . . is that from maccab. c. . where he saith , money was sent to jerusalem , that sacrifices might be offered for the slain ; and 't is recommended as a holy cogitation , to pray for the dead . to this , which is the main foundation of purgatory , i answer , . it can never prove such a purgatory as our author asserts ; for he supposes a sinner reconciled to god , as to eternal punishment , before he be capable of purgatory ; but here can be no such supposition , for these men died in the sin of achan , which was not known till their bodies were found among the slain . here was no confession , or any sign of repentance ; and therefore if it proves any thing , it is deliverance from eternal punishment , and for such as dye in their sins without any shew of repentance . . we must distinguish the fact of iudas from the interpretation of iason , or his epitomizer . the fact of iudas was according to the strictness of the law , which required in such cases a sin-offering ; and that is all which the greek implies . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and so leo allatius confesses all the best greek copies agree ; and he reckons twelve of them . now what doth this imply , but that iudas remembring the severe punishment of this sin in the case of achan , upon the people , sent a sin-offering to ierusalem ? but saith leo allatius , it was the sin of those men that were slain . i grant it . but the question is , whether the sin-offering respected the dead or the living ? for the law in such a case required a sin-offering for the congregation . and why should not we believe so punctual a man for the law , as iudas , did strictly observe it in this point ? but the author of the book of maccabees understands it of those that were slain . i do not deny it ; but then , . we have no reason to rely upon his authority in this matter ; which i shall make appear by a parallel instance . he doth undoubtedly commend the fact of razias in killing himself ( . macc. . . ) when he saith he did it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , like a brave man ; and if he had thought it a fault in him , he would never have given such a character of it , but he would have added something of caution after it . and it is no great advantage to purgatory , for him that commends self-murder to have introduced it . the most probable account i can give of it is , that the alexandrian iews , of whose number iason of cyrene seems to have been , had taken in several of the philosophical opinions , especially the platonists , into their religion , as appears by philo ; and bellarmine himself confesses , that plato held a purgatory : and they were ready to apply what related to the law , to their platonick notions . so here the law appointed a sin-offering with respect to the living ; but iason would needs have this refer to the dead ; and then sets down his own remark upon it , that it was a holy cogitation to pray for the dead ; as our author renders it . if it were holy with respect to the law , there must be some ground for it in the law. and that we appeal to ; and do not think any particular fancies sufficient to introduce such a novelty as this was , which had no foundation either in the law or the prophets . and it would be strange for a new doctrine to be set up , when the spirit of prophecy was ceased among them . but s. august . held these books for canonical , and saith , they are so received by the church , l. . de civit. dei. to answer th●s it is sufficient to observe , not only the diff●rent opinions of others before mentioned as to these books ; but that as canus notes , it was then lawful to doubt of their authority : and he goes as low as gregory i. whom he denies not to have rejected them . and i hope we may set the authority of one ●gainst the other ; especially when s. augustine himself , being pressed hard with the fact of razias , conf●sses . . that the iews have not the book of maccabees in their canon , as they have the law , the prophets ▪ and the psalms , to whom our lord gave testimony as to his witnesses . which is an evident proof , he thought not these books sufficient to ground a doctrine upon , wh●c● was not found in the other , . that however this book was not unprofitably received by the church , if it be soberly read and heard . which implies a greater caution than s. augustine would ever have given , concerning a book he believed truly canonical . but saith bellarmine , his meaning is only to keep men from imitating the example of razias ; whereas that which they pressed st. augustine with , was not meerly the fact , but the character that is given of it . sancta●um sc●ip●urarum auctoritate laudasus est razias , are their very words in s. augustine . and therefore the caution relates to the books , and not meerly to his example . and he lessens the character given by the author , when he saith , he chose to dye nobly ; it had been better , saith he , to have died humbly . but the other is the elogium given in the heathen histories , and better becomes brave heathens than true martyrs . can any one now think s. augustine believed this writer divinely inspired , or his doctrine sufficient to ground a point of faith upon ? and i wonder they should not every jot as well commend self-murder as an heroical act. as prove the doctrine of purgatory from these words of iason , or his epitemizer . for the argument from the authority of the book , will hold as strongly for one as the other . and yet this is the achilles for purgatory ; which natalis alexander ( whom our author follows in this matter ) saith , is a demonstrative place against those that deny it . but i must proceed . . purgatory is plainly intimated by our saviour , matt. . . whosoever speaketh against the holy ghost , it shall not be forgiven him , neither in this world , neither in the world to come . by which words , christ evidently supposes , that some sins are forgiven in the world to come . i am so far from discerning this plain intimation , that i wonder how any came to think of it out of this place . well! but doth it not hence follow , that sins may be forgiven in the world to come ? not near so plainly , as that sins will not be forgiven in the world to come . not that particular sin , but others may ; how doth that appear ? what intimation is there that any sins not forgiven here , shall be forgiven there ? or that any sins here remitted as to the eternal punishment , shall be there remitted as to the temporal ? and without such a kind of remission , nothing can be inferred from hence . but if there be a remission in another world , it can be neither in heaven nor hell , therefore it must be in purgatory . but those who own a remission of sins in another world , say it will be on the day of judgment : for the actual deliverance of the just from punishment , may be not improperly called the full remission of their sins . so s. augustine , whom he quotes , plainly saith , si nulla remitterentur in judicio illo novissimo , &c. iulian , l. . c. . where it is evident s. augustine takes this place to relate to the day of judgment ; and so in the other , ( de civit. dei l. . c. . ) but as he supposed a remission , so he did a purgation as by fire in that day . in illo judicio poenas quasdam purgatorias futuras . de civit. dei l . c. . and so he is to be understood on psal. . to which he applies cor. . . but our author was very much out , when he saith s. augustine applied pet. . . to some place of temporal chastisement in another world , when bellarmine sets himself to confute s. augustine about it , as understanding it of this world. and therefore he hath little cause to boast of st. augustine's authority about purgatory , unless he had brought something more to the purpose out of him . h●s other testimonies of antiquity are not worth considering ; which he borrows from natalis alexander : that of dionysius areopag . eccl. hierarch . c. . is a known counterfeit , and impertinent , relating to a region of rest and happiness . and so do tertullian's oblations for the dead , de cor. milit . c. . for they were eucharistical , as appears by the ancient liturgies , being made for the greatest saints . st. cyprian , ep. . speaks of an oblation for the dead : and he there mentions the natalitia of the martyrs : but by comparing that with his epist. . it will be found that he speaks of the anniversary commemoration of the dead , which signifies nothing to purgatory : for the best men were put into it : and st. cyprian threatens it as a punishment to be left out of the diptychs ; but surely it is none to escape purgatory : arnobius l. . only speaks of praying for the dead , which we deny not to have been then used in the church , not with respect to any temporary pains in purgatory , but to the day of judgment : and therein lies the true state of the controversie , with respect to antiquity : which is not , whether any solemn prayers were not then made for the dead ; but whether those prayers did relate to their deliverance out of a state of punishment before the day of judgment . for whatever state souls were then supposed to be in , before the great day , if there could be no deliverance till the day of judgment , it signifies nothing to the present question . as to the vision of perpetua concerning her brother dinocrates who died at seven years old , being baptized , it is hardly reconcilable to their own doctrine . to suppose such a soul in purgatory : i will not deny that perpetua did think she saw him in a worse condition : and thought likewise that by her prayers she brought him into a better ; for she saw him playing like little children : and then she awaked , and concluded that she had given him ease : but is it indeed come to this , that such a doctrine as purgatory must be bu●lt on such a foundation as this ? i do not call in question the acts of perpetua , nor her sincerity in relating her dream : but must the church build her doctrines upon the dreams or visions of young ladies , tho very devout ? for ubia perpetua was then but twenty two , as she saith her self . but none are to be blamed who m●ke use of the best supports their cause will afford . it is time now to see what strength of reason he offers for purgatory . . he saith , when a sinner is reconciled to god , tho the eternal punishment due to his sins is always remitted , yet there sometimes remains a temporal penalty to be undergone ; as in the case of the israelites and david . but doth it hence follow , that there is a temporal penalty that must be undergone either here or hereafter , without which there will be no need of purgatory ? who denies , that god in this life , for example sake , may punish those whose sins he hath promised to remit as to another world ? this is therefore a very slender foundation . . there are some sins of their own nature light and venial . i will not dispute that ; but s●ppose there be , must men go then into purgatory for meer venial sins ? what a strange doctrine doth this appear to any m●n's reason ? that god should forgive the greater sins , and req●ire so severe a punishment for sins in their own nature venial ; i. e. so inconsider●ble in their own opinion , that no man is bound to confess them ; which do not interrupt a state of grace ; which require only an implicite detestation of them ; which do not deserve eternal punishment ; which may be remitted by holy water , or a bishop's bl●ssing , as their divines agree . . that to all sins some penalty is due to the iustice of god. and what follows from hence but the necessity of christ's satisfaction ? but how doth it ●ppear , that after the expiation of sin by christ , and the rem●ssion of eternal punishment , there st●ll remains a necessity of farther satisfaction for such a temporal penalty in another world ? . that generally speaking , few men depart out of this life , but either with the guilt of venial sins , or obnoxious to some temporal punishment . no doubt , all men are obnoxious by their sins to the punishment of another world ; but that is not the point , but whether god hath declared , that altho he remits the eternal punishment , he will not the temporal ; and altho he will forgive thousands of pounds , he will not the pence and farthings we owe to him : but if mortal sins be remitted as to the guilt , and venial do not hinder a st●te of grace , what room is there for vindictive justice in purgatory ? yet this is the doctrine which so much weight is laid upon ; that bellarmine saith , they must go directly to hell who do not believe purgatory . if this be true , why was it not put into the representation , that we might understand the danger of not believing so credible , so reasonable a doctrine as this ? but we believe it to be a much more dangerous thing to condemn others for not believing a doctrine which hath so very slender a pretence either to scripture or reason . xxiv . of praying in an unknown tongue . he it counsell'd by his church , to be present at sermons , but never permitted to hear any he is able to understand ; they being all deliver'd in an unknown tongue . he is taught to pray , but it must be in latin. he is commanded to assist at the church service , and to hear mass , but it must be without understanding a word ; it being all perform'd in a language of which he is altogether ignorant . and thus is miserably depriv'd of all the comfortable benefits of christianity : hearing , but without understanding ; praying , but without reaping fruit ; assisting at publick assemblies , but like a stock or a stone , without feeling , or any the least sense of devotion . he is counsell'd by his church to be present at sermons , such as he is able to understand , they b●ing always deliver'd in the vulgar language of every country : in france , french ; in spain , spanish ; in italy , italian : in england ( if permitted ) english : they being purely intended for the good instruction of the congregation present . he is taught to pray , and alw●ys provided of such books of devotion as he is capable of understanding ; every nation being well furnished with such helps , extant in the language proper to the country . he is commanded to assist at the church-service , and to hear mass ; and in this he is instructed , not to understand the words , but to know what is done . for , the mass being a sacrifice , wherein is daily commemorated the death and passion of christ by an oblation made by the priest. of the body and blood of the imm●culate lamb , under the symbols of bread and wine , according to his own institution : 't is not the busines of the congregation present , to imploy their ears in attending to the words , but their hearts in contemplation of the divine mysteries , by raising up fervent affections of love , thanksgiving , compassion , hope , sorrow for sins , resolutions of amendment , &c. that thus having their heart and intention united with the priests , they may be partakers of his prayers , and of the sacrifice he is then offering , than which he believes nothing is more acceptable to god , or beneficial to true believers . and for the raising of these affections in his soul , and filling his heart with the extasies of love and devotion , he thinks in this case , there 's little need of words ; a true faith , without these , is all-sufficient . who could but have burst forth into tears of love and thanksgiving , if he had been present while our saviour was tyed to pillar , scourg'd and tormented , though he open'd not his mouth to the by-standers , nor spake a word ? who would have needed a sermon to have been fill'd with grief and compassion , if he had seen his saviour expos'd to the scorn of the iews , when he was made a bloody spectacle by pilate , with , ecce homo , lo the man ? who could have stood cold and senseless , upon mount calvary , under the cross , when his redeemer was hanging on it , though he had heard , or not understood a word that he spoke ? does any one think that those holy women , who follow'd their lord , in these sad passages , and were witnesses of his sufferings , wanted holy affections in their souls , because he spoke not : or were they scandaliz'd at his silence ? was not their faith in him that suffer'd , by which they believ'd him to be christ iesus , true god and man , laying down his life for the redemption of man , sufficient to excite in their souls all the passions due from a sinful creature , to his bleeding redeemer , to his crucified iesus ? the like faith also is sufficient to fill him with devotion , when he is present at the holy sacrifice of the mass : for believing , that christ is there really present before him , under the species of bread and wine , and that he that lies upon the altar , is the lamb of god that takes away the sins of the world ; what need of more , to quicken in his soul all the affections of a devout lover ? can he behold his redeemer before him , and not break forth into love and thanksgiving ? can he see him , that gives sight to the blind , health to the sick , and life to the dead , and yet stand still senseless and un-mov'd , without putting any petition to him , without asking any thing , for his blind , sick and sinful soul ? can he believe that he that gives his life for the world , and died for our sins , is there before him , and not be touch'd with sorrow and contrition for his offence ? can he see commemorated every doleful passage of his saviour's sufferings , in the several mysteries of the mass , and yet not be fill'd with grief and compassion ? is not iesus welcome to a devout soul , although he come in silence ? is not the presence of christ , a more forcing motive to a christian , than any humane words could be ? and if he must needs have words , let him behold with the eye of faith the gaping wounds of his redeemer , and see if those speak nothing to his soul ? if they do not , 't is because he wants faith. it nothing therefore concerns his devotion , that the mass is said in latin : if the church has order'd it thus , so to preserve unity ; as in faith , so in the external worship of god , and to prevent alterations and changes , which it would be expos'd to , if in vulgar languages , and other good reasons ; what 's that to him ? he should receive but little advantage if it were in his mother tongue . for besides , that the greatest part is said in so low a voice , that it is not possible he should hear it ; the words do not belong to him , that 's only the priest's office ; and the obligation is , to accompany the priest in prayer , and spirit , to be a joint-offerer with him , to contemplate the mysteries there represented , and to excite in his soul devotions according to the exigency of every passage ; according to the directions he finds in his english prayer-books , of which there are extant great variety , set forth for the help of the ignorant ; by which they are taught the meaning of every part and ceremony of the mass , and how to apply their devotions accordingly . and if at any time he be present at other publick devotions , as the church offices , the litanies , solemn thanksgivings , exequies , &c. which are all perform'd in latin ; or should say any private prayers , or sing an hymn in the same language , which he understands not ; yet is he taught that this may be done , with great benefit to his soul , and the acceptance of god ; if at these occasions he does but endeavour to raise his thoughts to heaven , and fix his heart upon his maker . for that god does not respect the language of the lips , but of the heart , does not attend the motion of the tongue , but of the mind ; and if these be but directed to him in thanksgiving , in praeising , in petitioning , in humiliation , in contrition , and such like acts , as circumstances require , he need not doubt but that god accepts his prayers and devotions : it being an undeniable th●ng , that , to say prayers well and devoutly , 't is not necessary to have attention on the words , or on the sense of the prayers ; but rather purely on god : of these three attentions , this last being approv'd by all , as of greatest perfection , and most pleasing to god. and this he can have , whether he understands the words or no : it being very usual and easie for a petitioner to accompany his petition with an earnest desire of obtaining his suit , tho the language in which it is worded be unknown to him . xxiv . of praying in an unknown tongue . the q●estion in short is , whether the church service , at which persons are bound to assist , ought not to be in a language understood by those who are bound to assist ? for our author grants , that a papist is bound to assist at the church service , and to hear mass ; but he is not bound to understand the words there spoken . this is a plain state of the case ; and one would have thought st. paul's discourse about edification in the church-service , and a known tongue , and the primitive practice , had des●rved a little consideration , but not a word is said to either of them ; and the whole is so managed , as tho there had been no rule , or any appearance of practice to the contrary . but i must consider what he doth say . . the mass is a sacrifice : and what then ? have they no other church-service but the mass ? what then becomes of their breviaries , litanies , and all other offices ? but suppose the priests office in the mass , be to offer the sacrifice ; are there no prayers in the canon of the mass , wherein the people are concerned ? why must not they understand what they are required to assist in prayer for ? if they have english books , as he saith , to teach them every part and ceremony of the mass , why not as well the prayers in the mass , wherein they are to joyn ? they tell us , it is unseasonable then for the people to say their beads , and other devotions : and i suppose as unseasonable to talk , or think of other matters . why then should not they know what it is they are to do , and what petitions they are then to make to god ? are there no responses to be made ? no lessons to be read ? no creed to be professed ? doth not the priest speak to the people to pray , and they answer him ? is there no thanksgiving after the communion which the people is concerned in ? we are as much for their devout affections as they can be , but we think they are not hindred by understanding what they are about : we cannot but wonder , that any man should say , that it nothing concerns his devotion that the mass is in latin , if he understand it not . is it no part of devotion to joyn in the publick prayers , not merely by rote , but from a due apprehension of the matter contained in them ? he requires , that they accompany the priest in prayer and spirit : and why not in understanding also ? but the church hath so ordered it : and that is the thing we complain of , as done against st. paul , against the primitive church , against the natural sense of mankind , who think it is sit for them to know what they do , especially in the worsh●p of god : but it is to preserve unity : methinks however unity in spirit and understanding is better than without it : there are other good reasons : i know not one good one ; and if there were more , he would have produced them : the greatest part is said in a low voice , that it is not possible he should hear it : and to what purpose should it be spoken louder , if they are not to understand it ? but why so low in publick ? yet the people might have books , and joyn , if they understood what was said . but why should not the rest be understood , which is spoken as if it were ? . as to other offices , he saith , he is taught , that he may perform them in a language which he understands not , with great benefit to his soul , and the acceptance of god , if at those occasions he endeavours to raise his thoughts to heaven , and fix his heart upon his maker . but the question is not , whether a man may not have devout thoughts at that time , but whether he can perform his part in the publick offices , with true devotion , without understanding ? for the publick offices of devotion were designed for the uniting the hearts and desires of the people in the same things . it is not , whether one man may not pray for heaven , and another for fair weather , and another for pardon of his sins , and a fourth for patience , and so on , in the same place , and at the same time ; for all this may be done as well in a silent meeting , where not a word is spoken : but there being one form of prayer for all to joyn together in that with the united force of the whole congregation , their petitions may go up to heaven ; the matter now in dispute is , whether it be not necessary in order to this united devotion , that the people all know what they pray for ? and one would think nothing need to be said to prove this : but what our author adds in justification of this , overthrows all publick devotion ; for he saith , it is not necessary to have attention on the words , or on the sense of prayers , but rather purely on god : which is to make all publick forms unnecessary , and to turn all devotion into prayer of contemplation : for if this be true , all forms whatsoever are not only useless , but burthensome ; and by the stinting the spirit , do hinder the nimbler flights of the soul in pure silence towards god : and this principle must lead men to enthusiasms , and unintelligible unions ; and make them despise forms as a mean and dull dispensation . but at last he saith , a petitioner may accompany his petition with an earnest desire of obtaining it , though the language in which it is written be unknown to him . very true , if he ind●ted the matter of the petition , and trusted another to put it into that language , which the person to whom he makes it doth understand , but not his own : but all languages are alike to god's infinite wisdom , and so there can be no pretence on that account to keep only to some particular tongues , tho unknown to the party ; and if it were so to all men , no man would have a petition presented in a language which he did not know : but in prayer to god , the design of it is not to acquaint him with something which he knew not , but to excite the hearts and affections of men to an earnest desire of the things which are fit for them to ask : now let any man undertake to prove , th●t mens affections are as easily moved by words they do not understand , as by those they do , and i will give up this cause . xxv . of the second commandment . he is kept in ignorance as to an essential part of his duty towards god ; never being permitted to know the commandments , but by halves . for in the books deliver'd to him for his instruction , ( such are catechisms and manuals ) the second commandment is wholly left out ; and he by this means superstitious worship , and is taught to fall into all sorts of down right idolatry . and then the commandments he does learn , are in such disorder by a confusion of the two first into one , and a cutting the last into two , by putting only three in the first table , and seven in the second : that no reason can be able to justifie this mangling and chopping , in opposition to all authority and antiquity , he is instructed in his whole duty towards god , and most especially in the ten commandments . he is taught to understand them all and every one : that there 's an obligation of observing them , under pain of eternal damnation ; and that whosoever breaks any one of them , loses the favour of god , and as certainly hazards the loss of his soul , as if he broke them all . and tho in the short catechisms and manuals , in which the whole christian doctrine is deliver'd in the most compendious and easie method , in condescendence to weak memories , and low capacities ; the second commandment ( as 't is reckon'd by some ) be wholly omitted ; yet it is to be seen at length in other catechisms , and doctrinal books , to be met with every where in great plenty . and if any one should chance not to see any of these , yet would he be out of all danger of falling into any superstitious worship or idolatry : for that having read his first commandment , thou shalt have no other gods before me ; he is taught , that by this he is commanded to serve , love , adore , and worship one only true , living , and eternal god , and no more : that 't is forbidden him to worship any creature for a god , or to give it the honour due to god ; and that whosoever worships any idols , images , pictures , or any graven thing ( whatsoever the object be , whether in heaven above , in the earth beneath , or in the waters under the earth ) for god , breaks the commandment , by committing idolatry , and stands guilty of an inexcusable and most damn●ble sin . now having been taught , that this is the intent of the first precept of the decalogue , he thinks there can be but little danger of his becoming superstitious in his worship , or an idolator for want of the second ; there being nothing in this , but what he is fully and expresly inctructed in , by having learn'd the first : it being rather an explication of this , than any new and distinct precept : and for this reason he finds them in his books , put together as one , or rather as the first commandment , with its explication ; by which means it comes about , that there are only three in the first table , teaching him his duty towards god ; and seven in the latter , concerning his duty to his neighbour ; which is the division assign'd by st. augustine . and tho st. hierom observes not this method , but divides them into four and six , yet there being no direction in scripture concerning the number of the commandments to be assign'd to each table ; nor to let us know which is the first , which the second , which the third comm●ndment , or which the last : he is taught , that 't is but an unnecessary trouble , to concern himself about the number of them , or division , when-as his whole business ought to be , the observance of them in his life and conversation . xxv . of the second commandment . the dispute about this is not , whether the second commandment may be found in any of their books , but by what authority it comes to be l●ft out in any ; as he confesses it is in their short catechisms and manuals ▪ but not only in these ; for i have now before me the reformed office of the blessed virgin , printed at salamanca , a. d. . published by order of pius v. where it is so left out : and so in the english office at antwerp , a. d. . i wish he had told us in what publick office of their church it is to be found : but himself pleads for the leaving it out , when he saith . the people are in no danger of superstition or idolatry by it ; since the first commandment secures them from it ; and there is nothing in this , but what is vertually contained in the first , and is rather an explanation , than a new and distinct precept . but is this so plain and clear , that a mans conscience can never make any just and reasonable doubt concerning it ? there is a terrible sanction after it ; and men had need go upon very good grounds in a matter of such moment . hath god himself any where declared this to be only an explication of the first commandment ? have the prophets , or christ and his apostles ever done it ? how then can any mans conscience be safe in this matter ? for it is not a trifling controversie , whether it be a distinct commandment , or an explication of the first , but the lawfulness or unlawfulness of the worship of images depends very much upon it : for if it be only an explication of the first , then unless one takes images to be gods , their worship is lawful , and so the heathens were excused in it , who were not such ideots : but if it be a new and distinct precept , then the worshipping any image or similitude , becomes a grievous sin , and exposes men to the wrath of god in that severe manner mentioned in the end of it : and it is a great confirmation that this is the true meaning of it , because all the primitive writers of the christian church , not only thought it a sin against this commandment , but insisted upon the force of it against those heathens who denied that they took their images for gods : and therefore this is a very insufficient account of leaving out the second commandment . xxvi . of mental reservations . he is taught to keep no faith with any that are reputed hereticks by his church ; and that whatsoever promises he has made , thô never so positive and firm , with this sort of people , he may lawfully break , and cheat and cozen them without any scruple . and tho he must not do this by down-right lying , and telling untruths , for that would be a sin ; yet he may make use of any indirect ways , such are dissimulation , equivocations , and mental reservations , and by these means draw them into his snares ; and this without fear of offending god , who is well pleas'd with these kind of pious crafts , allows of these holy cheats , he is taught , to keep faith with all sorts of people , of whatsoever iudgment or perswasion they be , whether in communion with his church , or no ; he is taught to stand to his word , and observe his promise given , or made to any whatsoever : and that he cannot cheat or cozen , whether by dissembling , equivocations , or mental reservations , without defi●nce of his own conscience , and the violation of god's law. this is the instruction he receives from the pulpit , the confessionary , and his books of direction . the holy francis sales , in his introduction to a devout life , ( p. . c. . ) tells him plainly , let your talk be courteous , frank , sincere , plain and faithful , without double-dealing , subtilty or dissembling : this he is taught to observe and practise , and that without this 't is not possible to please god. in the catechism ad parochos , compil'd by order of the council of trent , and recommended to all parish priests for the instruction of the faithful , he is taught , that by the eighth commandment he is forbidden all dissimulation , whether in word or deed ; that cum scelere conjuncta sunt , to speak or do otherwise than for the intimation of what is in the mind , is abominable and wicked . that no man shall bear false witness against his neighbour , whether he be friend or enemy . and pope innocent xi , in a decree issued forth the second of march , anno . has strictly commanded all the faithful in virtue of his holy obedience , and under pain of incurring the divine vengeance , that they never swear equivocally , or with any mental reservation , upon no account or pretended convenience whatsoever ; and that if any presume either publickly or privately to teach or maintain the doctrine of swearing with equivocations or mental reservation , that they de facto incur excommunication latae sententiae , and cannot be absolv'd by any but the pope himself , excepting at the hour of death , he is taught therefore to speak plainly and sincerely , without dissimulations , equivocations , mental reservations , or any such like artifices ▪ which cannot be but very injurious to all society , and displeasing to the first truth . and now if any authors in communion with his church , be pr●duced as patrons of inward reserves , and grand abettors of th●se mental iuggles ▪ let them hold up their hands , and answer for themselves : their church has declar'd for no such doctrine , and is no more to be charg'd with their extravagant opinions , than with the unexemplar lives of other her members , whose irregularities are not at all deriv'd from their religion , but from the neglect of their own corrupt inclinations , and giving way to the temptations of their enemy . xxvi . of mental reservations . under this head he denies two things . . that they are ever taught to break faith with hereticks . . that their church doth allow any equivocations , or mental reservations . as to the former , i am sincerely glad to find a principle so destructive to all humane society , so utterly disowned , when he saith , he is taught to keep faith with all sorts of people , of whatsoever iudgment or perswasion they be ; and to stand to his word , and observe his promise given , or made to any whatsoever . and whatever opinions and practices there may have been of that kind formerly , we hope there will never be occasion given to revive that dispute . . as to the second , we embrace his declaration against it , and hope there is no equivocation , or mental reservation in it . but there are some things which must here be taken notice of . . he cannot deny that there are authors in communion with his church , which may be charged with teaching another doctrine ; and those not a few , nor inconsiderable ; who not only allow the practice of mental reservations and equivocations , but say with great confidence , it hath been received in the roman church for no less than four hundred years ; and that in some cases they are all still agreed in it . see parsons treatise of mitigation , c. . sect. . . c. sect. . . we do not deny , that innocent xi . hath condemned equivocations and mental reservations in swearing , as at least scandalous and pernicious in practise ; and therefore we cannot charge the pope with abetting this doctrine . but we cannot but reflect on what our author said about the deposing doctrine , that altho popes had believed it , and acted by it , yet the greater number opposed it . and what shall we say in this case ; if the generality of their casuists in some cases approve it , and think it no lye or perjury , as in that of confession ; but if it be really so in any one case , then it may be some other fault ; but it is not a lye or perjury in any other , when a man doth not think himself bound to speak all he knows . . that as we highly commend the pope's condemning such doctrines and pract●ses now ; so we have reason to think the contrary did not once want the encouragement and approbation of the roman see : as may be found in the resolution of some cases by pius v. relating to some missionaries , who were to be sent hither ; and then it was declared , that if they were summon'd before our judges , they might sophistice iurare & sophistice respondere ; and that they were not bound to answer according to the intention of the judges , but according to some true sense of their own , i. e. which was made true by the help of a mental reservation . but it is very well , that now the very same things are condemned at rome , as scandalous and pernicious in practise . xxvii . of a death-bed repentance . he is bred up in a total neglect of the service of god , of all virtue and devotion , while he is well , and in good health , upon presumption of a death-bed repentance , and a confidence , that all his sins will be certainly forgiven , if he can but once say , lord have mercy upon me , at the last hour and 't is a sufficient encouragement to him , to rely wholly upon this , to see that there is no such profligate villain , none that has liv'd , tho to the heighth of wickedness and debauchery of his communion ; but at his death he shall be assisted by a priest , and shall receive an absolution from all his sins , with an absolute promise of being soon admitted to bass , and reigning with christ , if he can but once say , he is sorry ; or if his voice fail him , signifie as much by a nod of his head , or the motion of a finger . he is bred up in the service and love of god , taught to work his salvation in fear and trembling to provide in health time against the last hour , and by no means to rely upon a death-bed repentance ; for that men , ( generally speaking , ) as they live , so they dye ; and 't is to be fear'd greatly , that those who neglect god alm●ghty , and forsake him a●l their life-time , w●ll never find him at their death : so that ( with st. augustine ) he doubts the salvation of as many as de●er the●r conversion till that hour , and has no encouragement at all to do it . however , if any are found t●at have been so neglectful of their duty , as to put ●ff this great business of eternity to the last moment ; he is taught , that , in charity , they ought to have all assistance possible , to put them in mind of their condition , to excite them to a he●●y detestation of all their off●nces : to let them know , that tho they deserve hell-fire in punishment of their wick●dness , yet that they ou●ht by no means despair ▪ for that god is merciful ; and , who knows , but if they heartily call upon him , and endeavour for a sincere repentance , with an humble confidence on the merits and passion of iesus christ , he may hear their prayers , shew them mercy , and give them time to repent . these are all the promises can be given in this point ; and this is what he sees daily practis'd ; and if some , by these means , are preserv'd from falling into despair , 't is well ; but as for any receiving from hence , encouragement of coming into the like circumstances , he thinks there 's but little danger , especially since there 's nothing so often repeated in books , no more common subjects for sermons , than the disp●aying the manifold perils of delaying ones conversion , and putting off repentance till the last hour . xxvii . of a death-bed-repentance . we have no difference with them about this matter , as far as they hold to these points : . that men are strictly obliged to work out their salvation with fear and trembling in time of health : . that it is very dangerous to defer their repentance to the last . . that if any are surprised , they ought in charity to have all possible assistance , to put them into the best way for their salvation . but yet there may be some particular doctrines owned in the church of rome , which may give men too much encouragement to put off true repentance ; as . the easiness of being put into a state of grace by the sacrament of penance ; for which no more is required than removing the impediment ; as appears by the council of trent , sess. . can. . and afterwards it defines , that bare attrition doth sufficiently dispose a man to receive grace in that sacrament , sess. . c. . so that altho a man hath led a very bad life , if he hath but this attrition for his sins when he doth confess them , he is put into a state of grace by this sacrament . and what can any man expect more , and what can he do less ! i do not mean a bare natural attrition , the sufficiency whereof is condemned by innocent xi . in the same propositions , ( fifty seventh ) but that which the council of trent calls imperfect contrition , i. e. a good motion in a man's mind to forsake his sins for fear of punishment : if really no m●re be required for a state of grace but this , it is no wonder i● men put off the doing of that which may be done at any time so easily by the help of a priest. . the treasure of the church is another thing which is very apt to hinder mens speedy repentance ; for by that they believe there is a stock ready of so many merits and satisfactions of others , if duely applied to them by indulgences , that they need not be at such pains to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling . when a man by the sacrament of penance is put into a state of grace , the eternal punishment is discharged , and nothing remains but some temporal pains : and to ease him of these he hath many helps , but especially the treasure of the church , which the pope hath the dispensing of , as he is bound to believe : and by indulgences he may easily get off some thousands of years of purgatory-pains ; and if these should fail him , there is another help yet left , which is leaving a stock of prayers for his soul when he dies ; which , even our author assures him , are very available towards his speedier release out of purgatory . xxviii . of fasting , he is contented with the appearance of devotion , and looking not beyond the name of mortification , he sits down well satisfied with the shadow , without ever taking care for the substance . and this , being a great pretender to fasting and the denial of himself , he thinks he has sufficiently complied with his duty in this point , and made good his claim , if he has but abstain'd from flesh ; and tho at the same time , he regales himself at noon with all variety of the choicest fish and stuffs himself at night with the best conserves and delicatest junkets , and drinks all day the pleasantest wines , and other liquors ; yet he perswades himself , that he is a truly mortified man , that he has most christian-like commemorated the bitter death and passion of his redeemer , and done a work of great force , in order to the suppressing his corrupt inclinations , and satisfying for the offences of his life past . nay , he has such a preposterous conceit of things , that he believes it a greater sin to eat the least bit of flesh on a fasting-d●y than to be down-right drunk , or commit any other excess ; as having less scruple of breaking the commandments of god , than of violating any ordinance of the pope , or any law of his church . his church te●ches him , that the appearance of devotion , the name of mortification , and pretence to it , are only vain and fruitless things , if they are not accompanied with the substance ; and that 't is but a very lame compliance with the ecclesiastical precept of fasting , to abstain from flesh , unless all other excesses are at the same time carefully avoided . 't is true , his church has not forbidden on these days the drinking of wine , but permits a moderate use of it , as at other times ; but is so far from giving liberty to any of her flock of committing excesses , that she declares drunkenness and all gluttony whatsoever , to be more hainous and scandalous sins on such days than on any other , they being expresly contrary , not only to the law of god , but also to the intention of the church , which appoints these times for the retrenching debaucheries and conquering our vicious appetites . and now if any of his profession make less scruple of being drunk on a fasting-day than of eating the least bit of flesh , he knows nothing more can be said of them , than of many others ▪ who will not break the sabbath-day by doing any servile labour on it , for all the world , looking on this as a most damning sin ; and yet at the same time have little scruple of swearing , cursing , lying or revelling the greatest part of the day . which is not because they have more liberty for these than the former , they being all most wicked offences ; but because they that do thus , are but christians by halves , who with a kind of pharisaical and partial obedience , seem to bear some of the commandments most zealously in their hearts , while others they trample under their feet ; scrupling many times at a moat , and on other occasions passing by a beam undiscern'd ; for which , their church is not to be accountable , but they themselves ; as being guilty of a wilful blindness , and a most unchristian negligence . this is the real case of such of his communion , who , on days of humiliation , while they abstain from flesh , yet give scandal by their intemperateness . they have a command of god , by which they are oblig'd on all days to live soberly , and to avoid all gluttony and drunkenness ; and on fasting-days : besides this command of god , they have a church-precept , by which they are bound ( if able ) to eat but one meal in a day , and that not of flesh. and now if some are so inconsiderate and careless , as to be scrupulously observant of one of these commands , and wholly negligent of the other ; 't is not because their religion teaches them to do so , ( which detests and condemns all such scandalous partiality , and complying with their duty by halves ) but because they shut their ears to all good instruction . and chuse rather to follow their own corrupt appetites , than the wholsome doctrine of their church . xxviii . of fasting . the question here is , whether a man doth not observe their churches command about fasting , who forbears all forbidden things , but takes liberty in those which are not forbidden ? it is not , whether they may not break the commands of god , against gluttony and drunkenness ; but whether they break the law of the church about fasting ? and notwithstanding what our author hath said , i see no reason for the affirmative . i do not deny , . that it is a very indifferent sort of fasting , to abstain from flesh , unless all other sorts of excesses at the same time be carefully avoided . . that excesses on such days are more scandalous , because there is a pretence of fasting . . that god's command doth at all times forbid intemperance . which are the chief things he insists upon . but yet this doth not reach the point , which is about their churches command . for their casuists distinguish fasting into . natural : which is total abstinence : and this is required only in order to receiving the eucharist . . moral : which is the same with temperance , or fasting for health . . ecclesiastical : which is defined by them to be , an abstinence from food forbidden by the church . and if this definition be true , it cannot be broken but by eating what the church hath prohibited . and therefore their casuists , as far as i can find , are agreed in these things ; . that a man may eat a full meal of what is not forbidden , and not break the churches precept of fasting , provided vespers be first said . and the later casuists blame covarruvias for making any scruple about it . if a mans excess comes to be a mortal sin , yet for all that , saith reginaldus , he shall not be judged as a breaker of his fast. nay , lessius goes further , and saith , he doth not lose the merit of fasting . quamvis aliquis multum excedat non solvit iejunium , saith card. tolet. and paulus zacchias saith , this is the common opinion ; and he thinks the intention of the church is sufficiently answered . and so doth pasqualigus in his praxis of fasting . . a man may drink wine , or other drink , as often as he pleaseth , without breaking his fast. he may toties quoties bibere , saith diana . zach. pasqualigus , who hath written most fully on this subject , shews , that it is the general opinion , that no quantity of wine or other drink , tho taken without any necessity , is a violation of the precept of fasting ; no , not although the wine be taken for nourishment , because the church doth not forbid it ; but this last , he saith , is not the general , but the more probable opinion . a man may eat something when he drinks , to prevent its doing him hurt ; besides his good meal , he may take what quantity he pleases of sweet-meats or fruit ; he may have a good reflection at night , and yet not break this strict precept of fasting ; for the eating as often as one drinks , it is the common opinion , saith the same casuist ( who was no iesuit ) that it is not forbidden , because it is taken by way of a medicine ; and he quotes a great number of their casuists for it . a collation at evening is allowed , saith he . and lessius saith , there is no certain rule for the quantity of it . and card. tolet saith , very large ones are allowed at rome by the pope's connivence ; even in the court of rome , saith reginaldus . and now i leave the reader to judge of the severity of fasting required in the church of rome . xxix . of divisions and schisms in the church . he is of a religion in which there are as many schisms as families : and they are so divided in their opinions , that commonly , as many as meet in company , so many several tenets are maintain'd . hence arise their infinite and endless disputes ; and disagreement of their divines , who pretend to give a true and solid explication of the mysteries of the christian faith , and yet differ in as many points as they write of . besides , what variety of iudgments are there in their religious houses and cloisters , none agreeing with another in their foundation , institution , and profession ? this being of the religion of st. dominick , that of st. francis , a third of st. bernard , others of st. benedict ; and so without number ; so that as many orders , as many religions . and yet they pretend to christian unity , amidst this diversity growing upon them every day . he is of a religion in which there are no schisms or separations ; all the members of it ( however spread through the world ) agreeing like one man , in every article of their faith , by an equal submission to the determinations of their church . and no one of them , tho' most learned and wise , ever following any other rule in their faith besides this , of assenting to all that the church of god , planted by christ , assisted and protected by the holy ghost , proposed to the faithful to be believ'd , as the doctrine of the apostles , and receiv'd as such in all ages . which is , all unanimously to believe as the church of god believes . no one of his communion ever doubting of this , or scrupling to receive any thing after his churches declaration . and now , tho they all thus conspire in every point of faith ; yet there is great diversity among school men in their divinity-points and opinions of such matters as are no articles of faith , and have no relation to it , but as some circumstance or manner ; which being never defin'd by their church , may be maintain'd severally , either this or that way , without any breach of faith , or injury to their religion : and of these things only they dispute , and have their debates in manner of a school-exercises , without any disagreement at all in their belief , but with a perfect unity . the like unity is there amongst their religious orders , all which say the same creed , own the same authority in the church of christ ; and in every thing profess the same faith ; and have no other differences , than as it were of so many several steps or degrees in the practice of a devout and holy life ; some being of a more severe and strict discipline , others of a more gentle and moderate : some spending more time in praying , others more in watching , others more in fasting ; some being intended for the catechising and breeding up of youth , others for taking care of hospitals , and looking after the sick ; others for going amongst infidels , and preaching to them the gospel of christ , and for such-like pious and christian designs , to the greater glory and honour of god : which differences make no other difference in the several professors , than there was between mary and martha , who express'd their love and service to their lord in a very different imploy ; but both commendably , and without any danger of prejudicing the unity of their faith. xxix . of divisions and schisms in the church . two things he saith upon this head : . that they are all agreed in matters of faith. . that they only differ in some school points ; from whence he infers , that they have no schisms or separations among them . but that this is no just consequence , will appear by the schisms and separations among us , made by such who profess to agree in all matters of faith. yet let us see how he proves that they agree in all matters of faith ; because they agree to submit equally to the determinations of the church . now this very way evidently proves that they do not all agree , because they do not equally submit to the churches determinations . for , . some say they are bound to submit to the churches determinations , as it represents the universal church ; others say no ; but as the churches power is virtually lodged in the guides of it . now this is a very material difference : for if it be on the former account , then not the popes and councils declarations are to be regarded , but as they express the sense of the universal church ; and so the majority of votes , the numbers in the representative and diffusive church is chiefly to be regarded . and on this ground some reject the deposing power , tho plainly decreed by popes and councils , but they unhinge their churches authority by it . now how is it possible for them to agree about matters of faith , who differ fundamentally about the way how any things come to be matters of faith ? if they be decreed by popes and councils say some ; and so the deposing power is become an article of faith. no such matter , say others , for a greater number in the diffusive church oppose it , as in the gallican church , and elsewhere . very well ! but how then can these parties be said to agree in matters of faith , and an equal submission to the determinations of the church ? . some again say , that it is not the consent of the present church can make any article of faith , but there must be an universal tradition from the apostles times . and so they tell us the deposing power can never be an article of faith , because it wants the consent of all the ages before gregory vii . so that upon this ground there can be no article of faith which cannot be proved to be thus delivered down to us . others again say , this is in effect to give up their cause , knowing the impossibility of proving particular points in this manner : and therefore they say , the present church is wholly to be trusted for the sense of the foregoing . now these differences are still on foot in their church ; and from these do arise daily disputes about matters of faith , and the seat of infallibility , whether in the guides , or the body of the church : if the former , whether in the church representative , or virtual ? whether the personal infallibility of the pope be a matter of faith or not ? our author saith , not ; others say , yes : and yet he saith , they are agreed in matters of faith. so that by his own confession they differ about other things than mere school-points . but suppose they were agreed in articles of faith , can there be no schisms or divisions in their church ? what thinks he of all the schisms between popes and popes ? of all the schisms between the popes and the emperors parties ? which were as notorious , and scandalous , and mischievous , as ever were in the world. what thinks he of the schisms between the bishops and the regular orders , which were as cross and peevish towards the bishops and secular clergy , as our dissenters themselves ? and among the regular orders , what heats and contentions have been , not about the practice of a devout life , i assure him , but about matters of doctrine ; and which both parties severally plead to be matters of faith ? as in the noted controversies of this last age , about the immaculate conception of the blessed virgin , the power of grace , and the pope's personal infallibility : and they cannot say they are as yet agreed about these things . xxx . of fryars and nuns . he is taught to have a high esteem for all those of his communion , who cloistering themselves up , become fryars and nuns ; a sort of people who call themselves religious , and are nothing but a religious cheat : under the cloak of piety , and pretence to devotion , deceiving the world , and living to the height of wickedness , under the notion of saints . they vow chastity , poverty , and obedience , and observe nothing less ; but live in all respects so irregular and scandalous , that were there to be taken a compendious draught of all the luxury , pride , covetousness , irreligion , and other vices , through the whole world , it might be modell'd according to what is acted between any of these four walls , in which these recluses live , without danger of omiting any thing that is wicked and unchristian . he is taught to have a high esteem for those of his communion who undertake that sort of life , which according to christ's own direction , and his apostles , is pointed out as the best . a sort of people , who endeavour to perform all that god has commanded , and also what he has counsell'd as the better , and in order to more perfection . they hear christ declaring the danger of riches ; they therefore embrace a voluntary poverty , and lay aside all titles to wealth and possessions . saint paul preaches , that he that giveth not his virgin in marriage doth better than he that does ; and that she that is unmarried cares for the things of the lord , how she may be holy both in body and spirit : they therefore chuse a single state , consecrating their virginity to god ; that so they may be wholly intent on his service , and be careful how to please him ; while she that is married cares for the things of the world , how she may please her husband , cor. . , , , . the gospel proclaims , that those that will follow christ , must deny themselves ; they therefore renounce their own wills , and without respect to their own proper inclinations , pass their life in a perpetual obedience . and because the world is corrupt , so that to a pious soul every business is a distraction , every diversion a temptation , and more frequently the provocations to evil , than examples to good ; they therefore retire from it as much as possible , and confining themselves to a little corner or cell , apply themselves wholly to devotion , making prayer their business , the service of god their whole employ , and the salvation of their souls their only design . and now , if in these retirements , where every thing is order'd as it may be most advantageous for the promoting virtue and devotion , nothing permitted that is likely to prove a disturbance to godliness , or allurements to evil , yet some live scandalously , and give ill example to the world : what can be said , but , that no state can secure any man ; and that no such provision can be made in order to a holy life , but it may be abus'd ? but yet he does not think that such abuses , and the viciousness of some , can be argument enough to any just and reasonable man , to condemn the whole , and the institution it self . is not marriage abus'd an infinite number of ways , and many forc'd to embrace this state , or a● least to accept of such particular persons contrary to their own choice and liking ? is there any state in this world , any condition , trade , calling , profession , degree , or dignity whatsoever , which is not abus'd by some ? are churches exempt from abuses ? are not bibles and the word of god abus'd ? is not christianity it self abus'd , and even the mercy of god abus'd ? if therefore there is nothing so sacred and divine in the whole world , which wicked and malicious men do not pervert to their ill designs , to the high dishonour of god , and their own damnation ; how can any one , upon the mere consideration of some abuses , pass sentence of condemnation against a thing which otherwise is good and holy ? 't is an undeniable truth , that to embrace a life exempt , as much as can be , from the turmoils of the world ; and in a quiet retirement to dedicate ones self to the service of god , and spend ones days in prayer and contemplation , is a most commendable undertaking , and very becoming a christian. and yet , if some , who enter such a course of life as this , fall short of what they pretend , and instead of becoming eminent in virtue and godliness , by their unexemplar lives prove a scandal to their profession ; is there rule and institution to be condemned ; or rather , they who swerv'd from it ? no , let not the dignity of an apostle suffer for the fall of iudas ; nor the commandments lie under an aspersion upon the account of those that break them . xxx . of friars and nuns . our dispute is not , about the lawfulness of retiring from the world by such persons who are rendred unfit for doing service in it ; and the more they spend their time in devotion and contemplation , so much the better . but it lies in these things . . whether the perfection of a christian state of life lies in being cloystered up from the world , or labouring to do good in it ? for this was the great snare made use of , to draw men into it , because they represented this as the most perfect state ; whereas according to the doctrine and example of christ and his apostles , the active life of doing good , is far beyond it . . whether , although such a retirement be allowed , it be a thing pleasing to god , to tye such persons up by indispensable vows , whatever their circumstances may be , not to alter that state of life ; who either in youth , or through force , passion , or discontent , have entred into it ? and this may be so much rather questioned , because those who assert the pope may dispense , go upon this ground , because circumstances may alter the obligation of a vow ; and when a greater good is to be attained it ceaseth to oblige ; which to my apprehension doth not prove the pope's power to dispense , but the dispensable nature of the vows themselves . . whether all things of this nature being liable in continuance of time to great degeneracy and corruptions ; and the numbers of such places being unserviceable either to church or state , it be not in the power of the king and states of the kingdom , to dissolve and reduce them to ways more suitable to the conveniences of both ? as to what he discourses about councils of perfection , the distractions of the world , the corruptions of the best things , &c. they reach not the main points , but are only general topicks , which we are not concerned to debate . xxxi . of wicked principles and practices . he is member of a church which is called holy ; but in her doctrine and practices so foul and abominable , that whosoever admires her for sanctity , may upon the same grounds do homage to vice it self . has ever any society since christ's time , appear'd in the world so black and deform'd with hellish crimes as she ? has not she out-done even the most barbarous nations and infidels , with her impieties , and drawn a scandal upon the name of christian , by her unparallel'd vices ? take but a view of the horrid practices she has been engag'd in of late years ; consider the french and irish massacres , the murders of henry iii. and iv. kings of france , the ho●y league , the gun-powder treason , the cruelty of queen mary , the firing of london , the late plot in the year . to subvert the government , and destroy his majesty ; the death of sir edmundbury godfrey ; and an infinite number of other such-like devilish contrivances ; and then tell me whether that church , which has been the author and promoter of such barbarous designs , ought to be esteem'd holy , and respected for piety and religion , or rather be condemn'd for the mysteries of iniquity , the whore of babylon , which hath polluted the earth with her wickedness , and taught nothing but the doctrine of devils ? and let never so many pretences be made , yet 't is evident that all these execrable practices have been done according to the known principles of this holy church , and that her greatest patrons , the most learned of her divines , her most eminent b●shops , her prelates , cardinals , and even the popes themselves , have been the chief managers of these hellish contrivances . and what more convincing argument that they are all well approved & conform to the religion taught by their church . he is member of a church , which , according to the ninth article of the apostles creed , he believes to be holy ; and this not only in name , but also in doctrine ; and for witness of her sanctity , he appeals to her councils , catechisms , pulpits , and spiritual books of direction ; in wh●ch the main design is , to imprint in the hearts of the faithful , this comprehensive maxim of christianity ; that they ought to love god above all things , with their whole heart and soul , and their neighbour as themselves . and that none flatter themselves with a confidence to be sav'd by faith alone , without living soberly , iustly , and piously ; as 't is in the council of trent , sess. . c. . so that he doubts not at all , but that as many as live according to the direction of his church , and in observance of her doctrine , live holily in the service of , and fear of god , and with an humble confidence in the merits and passion of their redeemer , may hope to be receiv'd after this life into eternal bliss . but that all in communion with his church do not live thus holily , and in the fear of god , he knows 't is too too evident ; there being many in all places wholly forgetful of their duty , giving t●emselves up to all sorts of vice , and guilty of most horrid crimes . and though he is not bound to believe all to be truth that is charg'd upon them by adversaries ; there being no narrative of any such devilish contrivances and practices laid to them , wherein passion and fury have not made great additions ; wherein things dubious are not improv'd into certainties , suspicions into realities , fears and iealousies into substantial plots , and downright lies and recorded perjuries into pulpit , nay gospel-truths . yet really thinks , that there has been men of his profession of every rank and degree , learned and unlearned , high and low , secular and ecclesiastick , that have been scandalous in their lives , wicked in their designs , without the fear of god in their hearts , or care of their own salvation . but what then ? is the whole church to be condemn'd for the vicious lives of some of her professors , and her doctrine to stand guilty of as many villanies as those commit who neglect to follow it ? if so , let the men of that society , iudgment , or perswasion , who are not in the like circumstance , fling the first stone . certainly if this way of passing sentence be once allow'd as just and reasonable , there never was , nor ever will be , any religion or church of god upon the earth . 't is but reck'ning up the idolatries , superstitions , cruelties , rebellions , murders of princes , impieties , and other such like enormities , committed by the iews , as they stand recorded in scripture ; and 't is immediately prov'd that the iews were never the chosen people of god , nor their law the dictates of heaven . 't is but making a lift of the misdemeanours , irregularities , abuses , excesses , treacheries , simony , separation , discords , erroneous doctrines , to be found , even in the time of the apost●es and their followers , and they are all effectually prov'd to be the disciples of antichrist , and that the world's redeemer had no sooner ascended into heaven , but his apostles left him , and began to set up for schism and vice. by this way , constantine may be evidently condemn'd for an heathen , because he murdered his wife and his son. and the religion of theodosius be mark'd out for atheism , because , by his order , seven thousand thessalonians were treacherously massacred in three hours space , without distinction of sex or age , or the innocent from the guilty . a confident undertaker would find no difficulty in proving all this ; especially if he had but the gift of exaggerating some things , misrepresenting others of finding authorities and texts for every idle story , o● charging the ex●ravagant opinions of every single author upon the religion they profess , of raking together all the wickedness , cruelties , treacheries , plots , conspiracies , at any time committed , by any ambitious desperado's , or wicked villains : and then positively asserting , that what these did was according to the doctrine of that church of which they were members ; and that the true measures of the sanctity and goodness of the church in whose communion these men were , may be justly taken from the behaviour of such offenders . but certainly no man of reason and conscience can allow of such proceedings . no sober man would ever go to tyburn , and whetstones-park , to know what is the religion professed in england according to law ; nor would look into all the sinks , jakes , dung-hills , common-shores about town , from such a prosp●ct to give a true description of the city . why therefore should the character of the church of rome and her doctrine be taken only from the loose behaviour and wicked crimes of such , who thô in communion with her , yet live n●t according to her direction ? she teaches holiness of life , mercy to the poor , loyalty and obedience to princes , and the necessity of keeping the commandments ( witness the many books of devotion and direction , made english for publick benefit , written originally by papists , ) and great numbers there are ( god be prais'd ) who practice this in their lives . and now if there be many also , who stop their ears to good instruction , and following the suggestion of their own ungovern'd appetites , of pride , ambition , covetousness , luxury , &c. so lay aside all concern of salvation , and become unchristian both to god and their neighbour , that they are a shame to their profession : why should the church be rep●esented according to the wickedness of those that neglect her doctrine ; and not rat●er by the piety and exemplar lives of such as follow it ? is not this to deal by her , ( if we may use such a comparison ) as 't is generally done by the sign of st. dunstan , near temple-bar , ( on which , thô the saint be drawn almost in the full proportion , and there 's no more of the devil on it , besides the reaching towards him with a pair of tongs ; ) yet 't is describ'd only by the name of the devil-tavern , without the least mention of the saint ? and is not this partiallity unjust , and these piece-meal descriptions unreasonable ? l●t the character of the church be given according to what she teaches , and not according to the writings of every positive opiniator , and the practices of every wicked liver , and then there 's no fear of its coming out so ugly and deform'd . neither le● any one pretend to demonstrate the faith and principles of the papists , by the works of every divine in that communion ; or by the actions of every bishop , cardinal , or pope ; for they extend not their faith beyond the declarations of general-councils : and standing fast to these , they yet own , that many of their writers are too loose in their opinions , that all bishops and cardinals are not so edifying as becomes their state ; and that popes may have their 〈◊〉 too . a pope is a temporal prince , keeps a court , has variety of officers ●bou● him . and it he has flatterers , and mis informers too , 't is nothing but what all princes are sensible of , but cannot remedy . and hence he doubts not , but 't is possible he may be engag'd in unlawful undertakings , and invite others to the like . and are not all other princes subject to this too ? but what then ? these actions of popes concern not the faith of those who are in communion with them ; they may throw a scandal indeed upon the religion , but they can never alter its creed . but what need any other return to the numerous clamours made daily against the wickedness of the papists ? 't is a sufficient vindication of their chief pastors and popes , ( to use the words of a person of quality ) that among two hundred and fifty , that have now successively bore that charge , there are not above ten or twelve , against whom their most malicious adversaries can find occasion of spitting their venom ; and that a challenge may be made to the whole world , to shew but the fifth part of so many successive governors , since the creation , of which there have not been far more that have abus'd their power . and as for their flock and people owning this authority , 't is true , many wicked things have been done by some of them ; and too many , like libertines , neglect the care of their souls : but however the generallity of them live like christans ; few come to them , but with their religion they change also their manners for the better ; few desert them , but such who seem to be fall'n out with all christianity ; and whosoever will look into any of our neighbouring popish towns , as paris , antwerp , gaunt , &c. will find in any one of them , more praying , more fasting , more receiving the sacraments , more visiting of prisoners , and the sick , more alms-giving , than in any ten towns of the reformation . xxxi . of wicked principles and practices . the misrepresenter charges the church of rome with many horrid practices , as the french and irish massacres , the murders of two kings of france , the holy league , the gun-powder-treason , &c. and charges these as being done according to the principles of that church . but in answer to this he saith , . in general , that the doctrine of it is holy , teaching the love of god and our neighbour , and that none can be saved by faith alone . in which doctrine we heartily concur with them . . that altho many uncertain things pass for certain , and false for true , yet he cannot deny that all ranks and degrees of men have been corrupted among them , being scandalous in their lives , wicked in their designs , without the fear of god in their hearts , or care of their own salvation . this is a general acknowledgment , but no particular answer to the things objected . . that the whole church is not to be charged for the sake of such villanies . very true , unless some doctrine owned in that church gave encouragement to them : as suppose any should ever have fallen into rebellion upon the belief of the deposing power ; is not that doctrine chargeable with the consequences of it ? they are extremely to blame who charge a church with what her members do in direct opposition to her doctrine ; but it is quite another case , when the main ground they alledge for their actions is some allowed principle in it . . they are not accountable for the actions of every bishop , cardinal , or pope ; for they extend not their faith beyond the declaration of general councils . but suppose general councils have declared such doctrines , and popes act but according to them ; is not their church then accountable for their actions ? . there is more praying and fasting . and receiving the sacraments , more visiting the prisoners , and the sick , more alms-giving in any of our neighbouring popish towns , as paris , antwerp , gant , &c. than in any ten towns of the reformation . and is there more charity too ? it doth not appear , if they be as ready to censure others , and admire themselves , as our author , who so freely gives his judgment about a matter it is impossible for him to know . we see no reason to admire or imitate the manner of their praying , and fasting , and receiving the sacraments ; for to pray without understanding , to fast without abstinence , to receive a maimed sacrament , are things we do not envy them for ; but althô our devotion be not so pompous , and full of shew , yet we may pray and fast in secret , according to our saviours directions , far more than they do ; however our people are mightily to blame if they do not understand what they pray for , if they do not receive more of the sacrament than they ; and we verily believe there are as great and remarkable instances of true charity among those of the church of england , as among any people in the world. xxxii . of miracles . he is so given up to the belief of idle stories and ridiculous intentions in favour of his saints , which he calls miracles , that nothing can be related so every way absurd , foolish , and almost impossible , but it gains credit with him , and he is so credulously confident of the truth of them , that there 's no difference to him , betwixt these tales , and what he reads in scr●pture . 't is a pretty romance , to see what is recounted of st. francis 's cord , the scapular , st. anthony , st. bridget , and other such favourites of heaven . he that has but read the atchievements of these , may excuse the perusal of bevis of sou●hampton , the seven champions , or quevedo 's dreams ; for these are nothing to compare to the former , either for the rare invention , wonderful surprises , or performance of impossibil●ties . he is not oblig'd to believe any on● miracle , besides what is in the scripture ; and for all others , he may give the credit , which in prudence he thinks they deserve ; considering the honesty of the relator , the authori●y of the witnesses , and such other circumstances , which on the like occasions use to gain his assent . and if upon the account of meer history , and the consent of authors , few make any doubt , but that there was such a one as caesar , alexander , mahomet , luther , &c. why should he doubt of the truth of many miracles , which have not only the like consent of authors and history , but also are attested by great numbers of eye-witnesses , examin'd by authority , and found upon reco●d , with all the formal●ties due to such a process ? st. augustine relates many miracles done in his time , so does st. ierom , and other fathers ; and if they doubted nothing of them then , why should he question the truth of them now ? he finds , that in the time of the old law , god favour'd many of his servants , working miracles by their hands ; and he thinks now that god's hand is not shortned ; that the disciples of christ are no less favourites of heaven , than those of moses ; and that the new law may be very well allow'd to be as glorious , and as particularly priviledg'd as the old : especially since christ promised that his apostles should do greater miracles than ever he himself had done . and what if some miracles ( recounted by authors , ) are so wonderfully strange , to some they seem ridiculous and absurd ? are they the less true upon this account ? is not every thing ridiculous to unbelievers ? the whole doctrine of christ is a scandal to the iews , and folly to the gentiles . and what more absurd to one that wants faith , than the miracles recounted in the old testament ? might not such a one turn them all into ridicule and buffoonry ? take but faith away , and see what becomes of balaam and his ass. sampson and his iaw-bone , elias and his fiery chariot , elijah's m●ntle , ax-head , and dead bones , gideon's pitchers , lamps and trumpets in demolishing the walls of iericho , moses and his burning bush , his holding up his hands for the victory over his enemies , his parting of the red-sea , and ioshua's commanding the sun to stand still , &c. might not these , and all the rest be painted out as ridiculous as any supposed to be done since christ's time , and be put in the same list with the history of bevis , or guy of warwick ? a little incredulity , accompanied with a presumption of measuring god's works by humane w●sdom , will really make the greatest part of them pass for follies , and absurd impossibilities . and thô he is so far from giving equal assent to the miracles related in scripture , and the others wrought since , that the former he believes with a divine faith , and the rest with an inferiour kind of assent , according to the grounds and authority there is in favour of them , like as he does in prophane history : yet the strangeness of these , never makes him in the least doubt of the truth of them , since ' ●is evident to him , that all the works of heaven far surpass all his reasoning , and that while he endeavours but to look even into the very ordinary things daily wrought by god almighty , the motion of the sun , moon and stars , the flowing of the sea , the growing of an ear of corn , the light of a candle , the artifice of the bees , &c. he quite loses himself , and is bound to confess his own ignorance and folly , and that god is wonderful in all his works , a god surpassing all our knowledge . whatsoever therefore is related upon good grounds , as done by the extraordinary power of god , he is ready to assent to it , although he sees neither the how , the why , nor the wherefore ; being ready to attribute all to the honour and praise of his maker , to whose omnipotent hand , most of poor man's impossibles , are none . xxxii . of miracles . . our author saith , he is not obliged to believe any one miracle besides what is in scripture . . he sees no reason to doubt the truth of many miracles , which are attested by great numbers of eye-witnesses , examined by authority , and found upon record , with all the formalities due to such a process . now , how can these two things stand together ? is not a man obliged to believe a thing so well proved ? and if his other arguments prove any things , it is , that he is bound to believe them . for he thinks there is as much reason to believe miracles still , as in the time of the old or new law. if he can make this out , i see no reason why he should not be as well obliged to believe them now , as those recorded in scripture . but i can see nothing like a proof of this . and all persons of judgment in their own church , do grant there is a great difference between the necessity of miracles for the first establishing a religion , and afterwards . this is not only asserted by tostatus , erasmus , stella , andradius , and several others formerly ; but the very late french author i have several times mentioned , saith it in expr●ss terms . and he confesses the great impostures of modern miracles , which , he saith , ought to be severely punished ; and that none but women and weak people think themselves bound to believe them . and he cannot understand what they are good for : not to convert hereticks ; because not done among them : not to prove there are no corruptions or errors among them , which is a thing incredible ; with much more to that purpose , and so concludes with monsieur paschal , that if they have no better use , we ought not to be amused with them . but christ promised , that his apostles should do greater miracles than himself had done . and what then ? must therefore s. francis , or s. dominic , or s. rosa , do as great as the apostles had done ? what consequence can be drawn from the apostles times to latter ages ? we do not dispute god's omnipotency , or say his hand is shortned ; but we must not from thence infer , that every thing which is called a miracle is truly so ; or make use of god's power , to justify the most incredible stories . which is a way will serve as well for a false as a true religion ; and mahomet might run to gods omnipotency for cleaving the moon in two pieces , as well as others for removing a house over the seas , or any thing of a like nature . but , he saith , their miracles are not more ridiculous and absurd than some in the old testament . which i utterly deny ; but i shall not run out into the examination of this parallel , by shewing how very different the nature , design , and authority of the miracles he mentions , is from those which are believed in the roman church . and it had been but fitting , as he set down the miracles of the old testament , so to have mentioned those of the roman church which were to vye with them ; but this he was willing to forbear , for certain good reasons . if most of poor man's impossibles be none to god , as he concludes , yet every thing is not presently true which is not impossible ; and by this way of arguing , there can be nothing objected against the most absurd and idle fictions of the golden legend , which all men of understanding among themselves , not only reject for want of authority , but of credibility . xxxiii . of holy water . he highly approves the superstitius use of many inanimate things , and attributes wonderful effects to such creatures , which are but in a very inferiour rank , and able to do no such things . holy water is in great esteem with him , so are blessed candles , holy oyl and holy bread , in which he puts so much con●idence , that by the power of these , he thinks himself secure from all witchcraft , inchantment , and all the power of the devil ; nay , that by the help of these se●seless medators , he may obtain remission of his venial or lighter sins . and in the use of these things , he is taught by his church to so obstinatley positive , as if he had the authority of fathers and scripture to back it , when-as there is not the least grain of reason , no hint of antiquity . no text throughout the word of god for the defence , command , or even permission of it . he utterly disapproves all sorts of superstition . and yet is taught to have an esteem for holy-water , blessed candles , holy oyl , and holy bread ; not doubting , but that as such men , who have consecrated themselves to the service of god , in the preaching the gospel and adm●nistration of the sacraments , have a particular respect due to them above the laity : as churches ded●cated to god , are otherwise to be look'd on , than other dwelling houses : so likewise these other creatures , which are particularly deputed by the prayers and blessing of the priest ; to certain uses for god's own glory , and the spiritual and corporeal good of christians , ought to be respected in a degree above other things . and what superstitions in the use of them ? has not god himself prescrib'd such inanimate things , and holy men made use of them , for an intent above their natural power ; and this without any superstition ? was there superstition in the waters of iealousy , numb . . . in the shew-bread , in the tables of stone , in the salt us'd by elijah for sweet'ning the infected waters , in the liver of the fish taken by the angel raphael , for expelling the devil ? was it superstition in christ to use clay for the opening the eyes of the blind ; or in the apostles to impose hands for the bringing down the holy ghost upon christians ; or to make use of oyl for the curing of the sick ? mark . . and thô there be no express command in scripture , for blessing water , bread , &c. yet there is this assurance , that every creature is sanctified by the word of god and prayer , tim. . . and frequent promises , that god would hear the prayers of the faithful . why therefore should he doubt , but that these creatures , on which the blessing of god is solemnly implor'd by the word of god , and the prayers of the priest and people , for their sanctification , are really sanctified , according to the assurance of the apostle , and the promises of god ? st. cyril of ierusalem , who liv'd in the third century , made no question , but that as these things wh●ch are offer'd to idols , tho pure in their own nature , are made impure by the invocation of devils ; so on the contrary , simple water is made holy , and gets a sanctity , by virtue receiv'd from the invocation of the holy ghost , christ our lord , and his eternal father , ( cyr. catech. . ) st. augustine was of the same judgment touc●ing the benediction of bread ; affirming , that the bread which the catechumens did take , tho it was not christ's body , yet it was holy ; yes , and more holy than the meat wherewith we are nourish'd , ( aug. tom. . l. . de pecc . mer. & remis●c . ) the like is to be seen in the epistle of st. alexander , who govern'd the church but fifty years after st. peter ; where he declares the custom even at that time of blessing water , and confirms the practice of it by his command . and that water thus bless'd was capable , by virtue receiv'd from heaven , of working eff●cts above its own nature , was the sentiment of christians in the primitive times ; epiphanius makes early mention ( tom. . l. . cont . haer . . ) where he relates a passage at length , how that water being blessed in the name of iesus , and sprinkled upon fire which by witchcraft was made unactive , and hindred from burning , immediately the enchantment ceas'd , and the fire burn'd : as also that a possess'd person being besprinkled with bless'd water , the party was immediately cured . theodoret has the like narration of the devil hindring fire from burning , and how that he was chased away , and the charm dissolv'd by blessed water being thrown on it , ( lib. . eccles. hist. c. . ) and does not st. hierom ( in vit . hilarion , p. . paris print , ) make this relation , how that italicus took water from blessed hilarion , and cast it on his bewitched horses , on his chariot , and the barriers from whence he us'd to run , and that the charm or witchery did cease upon the sprinkling this water ; so that all cryed out marnas victis est à christo , christ hath conquered marnas ( the idol ) and now , there 's no jeering and ridiculing these things will ever make them look like idle superstitions to one that considers seriously how much they are grounded upon reason , the word of god , antiquity , and the authority and practice of the catholick church ; which tho it approves the use of them , yet it teaches plainly , that there is no confidence to be put in any thing but only in iesus christ ; and what power these things have they not of themselves , but only from heaven , and by the invocation of the name of iesus ; who , as by his heavenly blessing he enables us to do things above the power of nature ; so also by the prayers of his church he blesses these things , in order to the working effects above their own natural qualities , that by them his fatherly benefits may be appl●ed to us , and that so the faithful may more particularly honour and bless him in all his creatures . xxxiii . of holy water . the misrepresenter charges him with approving superstitious uses of inanimate things , and attributing wonderful effects to them ; as holy-water , candles , oyl , bread , &c. in answer , our author . declares , that the papist truly represented , utterly disapproves all sorts of superstition . but it he had designed to have represented truly , he ought to have told us what he meant by superstition , and whether any man who observes the commands of the church can be guilty of it . . he saith , that these things are particularly deputed by the prayers and blessing of the priest to certain uses for god's glory , and the spiritual and corporal good of christians . this is somewhat too general ; but marsilius columna , archbishop of salerno , who hath taken most pains in this matter , sums them up ; . as to spiritual , they are seven . . to fright devils . . to remit venial sins . . to cure distractions : . to elevate the mind . . to dispose it for devotion . . to obtain grace . . to prepare for the sacrament . . as to corporal . . to cure barreness . . to multiply goods . . to procure health . . to purge the air from pestilential vapours . and now , as our author saith , what superstition in the use of it ? he names several things of gods own appointing to parallel it ; as the waters of iealousy , the shew-bread , the tables of stone ; but the first was miraculous , the other had no such effects that we ever heard of . elisha's salt for sweetning the water , was undoubtedly a miracle . is the holy-water so ? as to the liver of the fish for expelling the devil , in the book of tobit , he knows the book is not owned for canonical by us ; and this very place is produced as an argument against it ; there being no ground from scripture , to attribute the power of expelling devils , to the liver of a fish , either naturally or symbolically : vallesius offers at the only probable account of it , that it must be a divine power given to it , which the angel raphael , did not discover : and yet it is somewhat hard to conceive , how this liver should have such a power to drive away any kind of devil , as it is there expressed , unless by a devil there , no more be meant than some violent disease , which the iews generally believed to arise from the possession of evil spirits : but however here is an angel supposed , who made this known to tobit ; but we find not raphael to discover the virtue of holy water against devils . as to christ using clay to open the eyes of the blind , it is very improperly applied , unless the same miraculous power be supposed in it , which was in christ himself : and so is the apostles laying on of hands , and using oyl for miraculous cures ; unless the same gift of miracles be in every priest which consecrates h●ly water , which was in the apostles : and bellarmine himself confesses , that no infallible effect doth follow the use of holy water , because there is no promise of god in the case , but only the prayers of the church . but these are sufficient to sanctifie the water , saith our author ; and to what end ? for all the spiritual and corporeal benefits before mentioned ? is no promise of god necessary for such purposes as those ? how can any church in the world dispose of god's power without his will ? it may appoint significant and decent ceremonies , but it can never appropriate divine effects to them ; and to suppose any divine power in things which god never gave them , is , in my opinion , superstition ; and to use them for such ends , is a superstitious use . st. cyril , whom he quotes , speaks of the consecration of the water of baptism , càtech . . st. augustine only of a consecrated bread , which the catechumens had ( de peccat . merit . & remiss . l. . c. . ) but he attributes no divine effects to it . pope alexanders epistle is a notorious counterfeit . those passages of epiphanius , theodoret , and s. ierom , all speak of miraculous effects ; and those who had the power of miracles might sometimes do them with an external sign , and sometimes without , as the apostles cured with anointing , and without : but this is no ground for consecrating oyl by the church , or holy water , for miraculous effects . if these effects which they attribute to holy water be miraculous , then every priest must have not only a power of miracles himself , but of annexing it to the water he consecrates ; if they be super-natural , but not miraculous , then holy water must be made a sacrament to produce these effects ex opere operato ; if neither one nor the other , i know not how to excuse the use of it from superstition . xxxiv . of breeding up people in ignorance . he is train'd up in ignorance ; and 't is the chief means made use of by his church , for preserving men in that communion to hide from them her manifold mysteries of iniquity , her sottish sup●rstitions , her un-christian doctrines , by performing all in unknown tongues , and not permitting the poor misled people to look into , or understand any thing that they believe or profess . and by this blindness they are perswaded to embrace such infinite numbers of gross errors that were but the vail taken from their eyes but for one half hour , and they but permitted to have one fair prospect of their religion , thousands and thousands would daily desert her , and come over to the truth . he has all the liberty , encouragement , and convenience of becoming learned , of any people or perswasion whatsoever . and none that has ever look'd over any library , and found that the greatest numbers and choicest books of all sciences , have men of his communion for their authors : none that in his travels has taken a thorough view of the universities in popish countries , of the sorbon , louvain , salamanca , boloign , &c. and consider'd their laborious studies , in philosophy , divinity , history , the fathers , councils , scripture , &c. and besides the students here , has seen how many thousands there are in religious houses , who , free from the disturbances of the world , make virtue and learning the business of their whole life ; will ever lay ignorance to the charge of the papists ; but must in justice confess , that amongst them are to be found as many and as great scholars as amongst any people or societies in the world. and tho the vulgar and common sort , of that profession , understand not latin , yet are not they train'd up in ignorance of their religion , nor led along in blindness ; but are so provided of books in their own mother-tongue , of instruction and devotion , wherein is expl●cated the whole duty of a christian , every mystery of their faith , and all the offices and ceremonies perform'd in the church ; that they must be very negligent , or else very meanly parted , who do not arrive to a sufficient knowledge of the●r obligation in every respect . and whosoever has seen the great pains and care some good men take abroad , in explicating ( on sundays and holy-days in their churches , and on week-days in the streets , ) the christian doctrine to the crowds of the ignorant and meaner sort of people , not omitting to reward such as answer well with some small gifts , to encourage youth , and provoke them to a commendable emulation ; will never say , that the papists keep the poor people in ignorance , and hide from them their religion ; but rather that they use all means for instructing the ignorant , and omit nothing that can any ways conduce to the breeding up of youth in the knowledge of their faith , and letting them see into the religion they are to profess . neither does it seem to him even so much as probable , that if the church-offices , and service , &c. were perform'd in the vulgar-tongue , that upon this the now-ignorant and blinded people would immediately discover so many idle superstitions , sensless devotions , and gross errors , that they would in great numbers , upon the sight , become deserters of that communion in which now they are profess'd members . for since there is nothing done but in a language which the learned , judicious , and leading men of all nations do every where understand , and yet these espy no such ridiculosities which fright them from their faith ; but notwithstanding the seeing all thro' and thro' , they yet admire all for solid , holy , and apostolical , and remain stedfast in their profession ; how can it be imagin'd that the vulgar , weak , and unlearned sort , ( did they but understand all as well as they ) would espy any such errors and superstitions which these others , with all their learning and judgment cannot discover ? no , he thinks there 's no reason to fear , that what passes the test among the wise and learned , can be groundedly call'd in question by the multitude . xxxiv . of breeding up people in ignorance . the misrepresenter charges them with this , on these accounts . . by keeping their mysteries of iniquity from them . . by performing divine service in an unknown tongue . . by an implicite faith. to which the representer answers . . that they give encouragement to learning ; and he instances in their universities and conventual libraries ; but what is all this to the common people ? but their indices expurgatorii , and prohibiting books so severely , which are not for their turn , ( as we have lately seen in the new one of paris ) argues no great confidence of their cause , nor any hearty love to learning : and if it could be rooted out of the world , their church would fare the better in it ; but if it cannot , they must have some to be able to deal with others in it . . as to the common people he saith , they have books enough to instruct them . is it so in spain or italy ? but where they live among heret●cks , as we are called , the people must be a little better instructed to defend themselves , and to gain upon others . . if the people did know their church offices and service , &c. they would not find such faults , since the learned approve them let them then try the experiment , and put the bible and their church-offices every where into the vulgar tongues : but their severe prohibitions shew how much they are of another opinion : what made all that rage in france against voisins translation of the missal ? such proceedings of the assembly of the clergy against it ; such complaints both to the king and the pope against it , as tho all were lost if that were suffered ? such an edict from the king , such a prohibit●on from the pope in such a tragical stile about it ? such a * collection of authors to be printed on purpose against it ? do th●se things shew , even in a nation of so free a temper , in comparison , as the french , any mighty inclination towards the encouraging this knowledg in the people ? and since that , what stirs have there been about the mons testament ; what prohibitions by bishops ? besides a bull from this very pope against it . what vehement opposition by others ? so that many volumes have already been written on the occasion of that translation . and yet our author would perswade us , that if we look abroad , we shall find wonderful care taken to keep the people from ignorance ; but we can discern much greater to keep them in it . xxxv . of the uncharitableness of the papists . his church teaches him to be very uncharitable ; it being her constant doctrine , that none out of her communion can be saved . so that let a man be never so honest in his dealing , never so just to his neighbour , never so charitable to the poor , and constant in his devotion to his maker ; yet all this shall avail him nothing , if he be not a member of his church . 't is not enough for him to believe in iesus christ , to confess him his redeemer , to believe that he died for our sins , that he rose again , and ascended into heaven ; unless he believes and assents to every article and tenet declar'd by any of his general councils ; for that obstinately to deny any one of these , does as certainly place him at the left hand of the judge , as if he perversly stood out against the truth of christianity , and denied jesus christ to be god. and by this means , as many as by his church are mark'd out for schismaticks or hereticks , are to expect nothing but damnation ; or rather are condemned already . his church teaches him no uncharitableness at all , and the doctrine she delivers concerning the desperate estate of hereticks and schismaticks , is nothing but what she has learnt from the mouth of christ and his apostles . among the last advices , recommended by our saviour at his ascension , is found the sentence of doom pronounced against all such as would not receive the doctrine preach'd by the apostles , preach the gospel ( says christ , mark . . ) to every creature : he that believeth , and is baptized , shall be saved : but he that believeth not , shall be damned . and this is all his church delivers in this point , repeating the same sentence of condemnation against all such , as will not receive and believe the doctrine left by christ , and preached by his apostles . and if among those that believe not , she comprehends not only infidels and heathens , but also all hereticks and schismaticks ; 't is nothing but what she has receiv'd from the apostles ; who did not only shake the dust off their feets in witness against those who denied them entrance , and refused to believe in jesus , but also denounc'd such of the brethren to stand guilty of damnation , who notwithstanding their belief in jesus , that he died for the red●mption of man , and that rising again he ascended into heaven ; did make divisions amongst the faithful , or preached any new doctrine contrary to what they had deliver'd . st. paul is very express in this , who foretelling timothy ( tim. . , , . ) of some , who in latter times would come and preach a doctrine , forbidding to marry , and commanding to abstain from meats , which god hath created to be received : brands them with the infamous title of men that depart from the faith , giving heed to seducing spirits , and doctrines of devils . in these words plainly letting him understand , that though these men would not deny christ , yat that their false doctrine in those two other points , were enough to make them seducers , deserters of christ , and leaders to the devil . and does not he as expresly in his d epistle to timothy , ( c. . v. , , . ) condemn hymeneus and philetus , for prophane and vain bablers , increasers of ungodliness , and overthrowers of the faith , who concerning the truth erred only in one point , saying that the resurrection is past already ? by which ' ●is manifest to him , that the doctrine now taught him by his church , is nothing but what she has learnt from st. paul , and the rest of the apostles ; it being deliver'd by them that he is a lyar who denieth that iesus is the christ , ( ioh. . . ) and that every spirit that confesses not , that iesus christ , is come in the flesh , is not of god , ( ib. c. . v. . ) and not only this , but likewise a man that is an heretick , after the first and second admonition , reject ; knowing that he that is such is subverted and sinneth , being condemned of himself , ( tit. . , . ) with this weighty advice to the brethren , in which they are commanded in the name of our lord iesus christ , to speak all the same thing , that there be no divisions among them , but thet they be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgement , ( cor. . . ) for that having strife and divisions among them , they will shew themselves to be carnal , and to walk as men , ( ib. c. . v. . ) that therefore , there being but one body , and one spirit , one lord , one faith , and one baptism , they should endeavour to keep the unity of the spirit , in the bond of peace , and not be tossed to and fro like children , and carried about with every wind of doctrine , by the slight of men , and cunning craftiness , whereby they lye in wait to deceive , ( ephes c. . v , , , . ) who transforming themselves into the apostles of christ , are false apostles , deceitful workers , ( cor. . . ) but certainly accursed , for that troubling the faithful , they would pervert the gospel of christ. and preach another gospel , than that which had him preach'd by the apostles ( gal. . . . ) and this is the sum of the doctrine of his church , which believing that fai●h is necessary to salvation , it being impossible without faith to please god , ( heb. . . ) teaches likewise , that the faithful ought to hold fast the profession of their faith without wavering , for that not only they lose it ; who deny iesus christ to be god , as some have done : but also all those , who endeavor to pervert the gospel of christ , and in any point of faith obstinately deny , or teach otherwise than was taught by christ , and his apostles , as hymeneus and philetus did : so that , that christian makes but a very imperfect and lame profession of his faith , who can only say , i believe that iesus christ is come in the flesh , and that he is god and man , the redeemer of the world : unless he can with truth add this likewise , i also believe the whole gospel that he preach'd , and every point of faith , that he has taught and deliver'd to us by his apostles : there being the same obligation to obey his precepts , and hearken to his words , as to acknowledg the divinity of his person ; and it being a sin of the same blackness , obstinately to oppose any point of his doctrine , as to deny the truth of his pers●n . 't is not therefore any uncharitableness in his church , to declare plainly this miserable unhappy state of all such , who wilfully oppose and separate from the doctrine of christ , deliver'd by the apostles , and continued in the catholick church ; and of such who disobey and seperate from the government of the same church , which christ has commanded all to hear and obey : but 't is her zeal so to do , and the same solicitude for the salvation of souls , which mov'd the apostles heretofore , to preach the like doctrine to their flock ; as also the primitive christians to expel their communion , and anathematize all such , who by broaching erroneous tenets , contrary to any point of receiv'd doctrine , or by disobedience , did wilfully divide themselves from the belief or discipline of the catholick church : such as were marcion , basilides and bardesanes , who were condemn'd in the first age , for opposing that article of our faith , in which we believe the resurrection of the dead ; such the archonticks , condemn'd likewise for denying the necessity of baptism : such tatianus &c. for preaching marriage to be unlawful . such the millenarians , for maintaining a thousand years reign of christ up●n earth , with his saints in sensual pleasures . and so in all ages others were condemn'd upon the like account . it having been always , a received custom , even in the purest time of the gospel , for the elders and prelates , to whose charge christ committed the care of his flock , to oppose all those that by new doctrine . or by making schisms and divisious , did disturb its peace : and not to permit any that by such like means d●d endeavour to destroy his unity , so much desired and recommended by the apostles . so that they were equally declar'd enemies of christianity , who denyed christ , and they , who confessing christ , did yet contradict and reject any part of his doctrine . and this upon the principle , that christian faith ought to be entire . for that every article , mystery and point of it being deliver'd by the same hands , and recommended by the same authority ; whosoever did oppose any one point of it , was immediately judg'd guilty of all , in discrediting the authority , on which the whole stood equally grounded . and this is that great truth proclaimed above thirteen hundred years ago , and now every where read in st. athanasius's creed . whosoever will be saved : before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholick faith. which faith , except every one do keep whole and undefiled , without doubt , he shall perish everlastingly . by which words was made known to the christian world ▪ the sense and doctrine of the then pure and unspotted church , as receiv'd from christ and his apostles . that it is vain for any one to hope for salvation , unless he first believe the catholick faith ; and that whosoever does not believe it whole and undefiled , shall certainly perish everlastingly . which is a doctrine like that deliver'd by the apostle , conce●ning the observance of the laws of god ; that as whosoever fails in one , is made guilty of all ; so also , whosoever disbelieves one article of the catholick faith , does in a manner disbelieve all . there being no more hopes of salvation for one that denies obstinately any one point of the catholick faith , thô he believes all the rest ; then there is for one , who keeps nine of the commandments , with the breach of the tenth . an obstinate opposition against one point of faith , and a sin against one commandment being as certainly damnable , as if 't were against all . there being the same reason , and an equal necessity that the observance of god'● law , and the assent to the catholick faith be alike entire and whole . and now being convinc'd , that none can believe to salvation , but he that embraces the catholick faith thus wholly and entirely , by an equal submission to all the mysteries contain'd in it , without opposition to any . and being likewise convinc'd , that no one can arrive to the true knowledg of this faith , with an assurance of its integrity , but by receiving it as propos'd and believ'd by the church of christ : which church was founded by the son of god , watered with his blood , and by an infallible assistance of the holy ghost ( by which it was to be taught all truth to the end of the world ) was secur'd from the danger of being deceiv'd or deceiving others , to the consummation of things : he does not doubt , but as in the apostles time , so also ever since , and at present , god addeth to his church daily such as shall be saved , ( acts . ) there being no entire faith necessary to salvation , to be found out of this church ; and no possibility , as st. cyprian says , that god shall be a father to any , who own not this church for his mother . but now , where and which this church is , and what society of men are members of it , among such variety of pretenders ; though it may seem a great difficulty to some to distinguish ; yet to him it is none at all ; for since there is no other church , besides the roman catholick , which has had a continued and visible succession of b●shops and pastors in all ages since the apostles ; no other that has converted infidel nations to christianity ; no other that has always preserv'd peace and unity amongst its members , all of them speaking the same thing , and being perfectly joyn'd together in the same mind , and the same judgment ; no other that by assembling the elders and prelates , has oppos'd in all ages heresies and schisms , and condemn'd all those , who not sparing the flock , have spoken perverse things , endeavouring to draw away disciples after them ; no other , that has , in obedience to the command of christ , send apostles amongst infidels and unbelievers , for the preaching to them the gospel , and instructing them in christianity ; and by this way , without arms or blood , have spread their faith throughout the world ; no other , that by evident and undeniable miracles , have prov'd the truth of her doctrine ; no other , but what has begun by separation , whose first preachers have gone out from this ; the time of their first preaching and shewing themselves to the world , being upon record , and their new doctrine censur'd and condemn'd by that church , from whence they separated . since , i say , there 's no other society or christian congregation in the world , to which these certain marks of the church of christ does agree ; 't is evident to him , that this is the only true church ; that whosoever denies any article of her faith , denies so much of christ's doctrine ; that whosoever hears her , hears christ ; and whosoever obstinately and wilfully is separated from her , is in the same distance separated from christ himself ; and finally , that god addeth to this church daily such as shall be saved , ( acts . . ) xxxv . of the vncharitableness of the papists . the missrepresenter , ( as he is called ) charges this point home . because they deny salvation to those who believe all the articles of the christian faith in the apostles creed , and lead vertuous and good lives , if they be not of their communion . to this the representer answers in plain terms , that this is nothing but what they have learn'd from the mouth of christ and his apostles . and to this end he musters up all their sayings against i●fidels , false prophets , gnosticks , corinthians , as thô they were point-blank levelled against all that live out of communion of the church of rome . but this is no uncharitableness , but pure zeal , and the same the primitive church shewed against hereticks , such as marcion , basilides , and bardesanes , who were condemned in the first age for denying the resurrection of the dead , &c. what in the first age ! methinks the second had been early enough for them : but this is to let us see what learning there is among you . but do we deny the resurrection of the dead ? or hold any one of the heresies condemned by the primitive church ? what then is our fault , which can merit so severe a sentence ? we oppose the church : what church ? the primitive apostolical church ? the church in the time of the four general councils ? i do not think that will be said , but i am sure it can never be proved : what church then ? the present church ? is it then damnable to oppose the present church ? but i pray let us know what ye mean by it ; the universal body of christians in the world ? no , no , abundance of them are hereticks and schismaticks as well as we : i. e. all the christians in the eastern and southern parts , who are not in communion with the church of rome : so that two parts in three of christians are sent to hell by this principle ; and yet it is no uncharitableness . but suppose the church of rome be the only true church , must men be damned presently for opposing its doctrines ? i pray think a little better on it , and you will change your minds . suppose a man do not submit to the guides of this church in a matter of doctrine declared by them , must he be damned ? what if it be the deposing power ? yet his principle is , if a man do not hold the faith entire , he is gone . but popes and councils have declared this to be a point of faith ; therefore if he doth not hold it , he must be damned . there is no way of answering this , but he must abate the severity of his sentence against us . for upon the same reason he questions that , we may question many more . and all his arguments against us , will hold against himself ; for , saith he , he that disbelieves one article of catholick faith , does in a manner disbelieve all . let him therefore look to it , as well as we . but he endeavours to prove the roman catholick church to be the true church , by the ordinary notes and marks of the church . altho he is far enough from doing it ; yet this will not do his business . for he must prove , that we are convinced that it is the true church , and then indeed he may charge us with obstinate opposition , but not before . and it is a very strange thing to me , that when their divines say , that infidels shall not be damned for their infidelity , where the gospel hath not been sufficiently proposed to them ; and no christian for not believing any article of faith till it be so proposed ; that we must be damned for not believing the articles of the roman faith , which never have been , and never can be sufficiently proposed to us . methinks such men should study a little better their own doctrine about the sufficient proposal of matters of faith , before they pass such uncharitable and unlearned censures . xxxvi . of ceremonies and ordinances . his church , upon the presumption of being apostolical and commissioned by christ , has brought in such an infinite number of unnecessary superstitious ceremonies , that the whole exercise of her religion consists in nothing but a vain pomp and empty shew . and whereas christians are commanded by the apostle to serve the lord in spirit and truth ; she has made void this precept ; and neglecting both spirit and truth , has restor'd the heavy yoke of jewish rites , without the least authority of the word of god : but rather , in express opposition to it , has made these her humane inventions take place of the divine law. and then besides her ceremonies , what an endless account is there of other ordinances . institutions , precepts , to which she obliges all in her communion . how many are her fast-days , rogation and ember-days ? how many her festival and holy-days ? how many her injunctions on several degrees of people ? that priests shall not marry , that whosoever is in orders shall be oblig'd to the reciting or singing such and such offices . that marriage shall not be permitted , but at some set times : and a multitude of other such respective commands , which have no grounds in scripture , and no other authority for them , besides the decrees of some popes , who for some private ends , and the making themselves great , thought fit to lay these burdens upon the people . some being first instituted by pope telesporus , as the fast of lent : some by cal●xtus , as the ember-days , some by pope nicholas , as the prohibition of marriage : and so all the rest . and yet , forsooth , all these must be observed under pain of eternal damnation , as if god and the pope commanding were but all one , and had heaven and hell equally at their disposure . his church has appointed a great number and variety of ceremonies to be used in the celebrating divine service , in the offices and the administration of the sacraments . she has likewise many observances , ordinances , constitutions , appertaining to discipline and the government of the flock . and all these are receiv'd , approv'd , or instituted by her , every one in her communion does embrace , admit , and willingly submit to , without opposition , exception , or calling any into question : because , altho the particulars thus appointed or commanded be not to be found in scripture ; yet there being in the scripture an express and absolute command given to the whole flock of christ , of following and being obedient to those that have thus order'd these things ; in virtue of that command , they voluntarily , and without constraint , accept all that is of their appointment ; without excepting against any thing , unless it be manifestly sinful . and this they look on as a christian duty belonging to all such that are , by god's pleasure , in subjection to the h●gher powers , or under charge . and therefore , as a servant , having receiv'd a command from his master , is oblig'd to comply with it , in case it be not sinful , altho he cannot find the thing then particularly commanded , in scripture ; the general precept of servants being obedient to masters being sufficient to let him know his obligation , and to remove all scruple . and as ch●ldren are in duty oblig'd to perform the will of their parents , upon the command , obey thy father and thy mother , whether the thing particularly willed be in scripture or no ; so they judge it the duty of all christian people to submit without contention to the ordinances and constitutions of their pastors and prelates , altho the things particularly order'd by them be not express'd in scripture ; it being a sufficient ground for this their submission and obedience , that god has given them a general command ; obey them that have the rule over you , and submit your selves ; for they watch for your souls , as they that must give account , ( hebrews . . ) remember them which have the rule over you , who have spoken to you the word of god , whose faith follow , ( hebrews . ) so that to them it seems a very fallacious rule , leading to all confusion and unchristian comentions , viz. that the higher powers , our superiours , pastors and prelates , are not to be obeyed , but only in such things as are express'd in scripture ; and as for any other particulars , whosoever upon examination cannot find what is commanded by them in holy writ , may lawfully refuse submission ; nay , he is oblig'd to resist . for however this seems to bear much of the word of god in the face of it , yet certainly 't is wholly destructive to it ; and under pretence of adhering close to the scripture , undermines the very author of it . this the primitive christians understood so well , that they detested all such maxims , and following the advice of the apostle , chose rather to trust their souls in the hands of those , whom god had plac'd over them , by an humble submission to the government , and a peaceable obedience to their decrees ; than by a presumptuous questioning of every thing , and raising vain disputes , to take the rule of the flock out of the hands of those , to whom god had providentially deliver'd it , and place themselves judges over the church , their elders , prelates and pastors , whom god had commanded them to hear , and be in subjection to . so that we never read , that they ever pretended to weigh the ordinances of their superiors by their own reasoning , or to bring them to the test of the word of god , before the acceptance ; but alway judg'd it conform to the word of god , that their governours should rule , and they obey . thus when the apostles observ'd the sunday instead of the sabbath ; and met together at pentecost ; we don't read that the faithful then began to turn over their bibles , to find a command for these particulars , but with a prompt obedience readily followed them in the observance . so when abstinence from blood and strangled meats was order'd by the elders assembled at ierusalem ; ( acts . ) the multitude of believers having heard the decree , never murmur'd at it , or call'd it into question , however seemingly contrary to the intention of christ , who in abrogating the law of moses was thought to have cut off all these obligations ; but they all rejoyced for the consolation , ( ib. v. . ) so when st. paul gave orders to the corinthians , ( cor. . ) in what manner and posture they were to behave themselves at prayers in their assemblies , both men and women ; we don't hear that he was challeng'd by any to shew by what authority of scripture he thus reprov'd and prescrib'd in these particulars , or by what they were ob●ig'd to receive his prescriptions ; but with a prompt submission accepted his orders , not doubting , but since it was god's will to place rulers and governours over them , it must be god's will that they should be obedient to them , in following their decrees , and observing their constitutions . and with this doctrine of obedience , humility , and submission , all the primitive christians were train'd up by the apostles , who zealously laboured by this means to preserve them in peace and unity ; that so they might think all the same thing , and be of one mind and one judgment , and without divisions ; insomuch , that there is not any one thing so often repeated in their writings , as exhortations to this obedience and submission : see , how , going through the cities they deliver'd to them ( the faithful ) the decrees for to keep , that were ordain'd by the apostles and elders which were at ierusalem , ( acts ● . ) see how st. paul commands the thessalonians , to hold fast the traditions they had been taught by word or by epistle , ( thess. . . ) see how he commands the hebrews ; obey them that have the rule over you . remember them which have the rule over you , ( heb. . . . ) see with what earnestness st. iohn urges this ; he that knoweth god heareth us , he that is not of god heareth us not , ( joh. . . ) hereby know we the spirit of truth and the spirit of error . and then again , does not st. paul commend the corinthians for their obedience ; now i praise you , brethren , that you remember me in all things , and keep the ordinances , as i deliver'd them to you , ( cor. . . ) and then , having given them directions as to their behaviour in their assemblies , he adds ; but if any man seem to be contentious , we have no such custom , neither the churches of god , ( cor. . . ) and now it being thus evident , that the church of christ in the apostles time was founded , and preserv'd by a submission and obedience of the flock to their pastors ; the papists teach and believe , that what was taught and commanded by the apostles to the faithful then living , ought to be receiv'd as a doctrine necessary for all succeeding ages , and that submission and obedience ought to have been as much the duty of believers ever since as it was then ; the commands and practice of that time being undoubtedly the best and only pattern for the faithful for all times , even to the end of the world. and they do not only teach this doctrine of submission in their books and sermons , but also observe it in their lives , having in all ages depended on their elders and prelates in all matters touching the discipline and government of the church ; leaving rule to those whose charge and office it is to rule ; and never believing , that they , who are under charge and command expresly by st. paul to remember and obey those who have the rule over them , can upon any pretence whatsoever , nay , thô an angel from heaven should come and preach otherwise , be discharg'd from this christian obligation , and be exempted from remembring and obeying , whom thus by god , speaking by his apostle , they are commanded to remember and obey . and upon this ground it is , that in things concerning the order to be observ'd in the divine service , in all ceremonies ; holy rites , ecclesiastical constitutions , and ordinances , they have neither nill nor will of their own ; but always receive , and think that the best , which is order'd and appointed by those , to whom , by divine law , they owe this submission and obedience , and to whom the ordering and appointing these things appertains . and therefore , if these appoint a day of humiliation for imploring god's mercy , or averting his judgments , they never scruple to observe it ; if a day of thanksgiving , in memory of some signal benefit , they likewise obey . if these judge it fit , that on every friday should be commemorated the death and passion of our redeemer in fasting ; and command lent to be observ'd , in remembrance and imitation of our lord 's days fast in the desart , they think it their obligation to do so . if these order such and such days to be set apart , and kept holy in remembrance and thanksgiving for the incarnation , nativity , circumcision , resurrection , and ascension of christ , and for other such like intentions , they esteem it sinful to oppose it . if these judge it decent , that the faithful shou'd bow at the name of iesus , stand at the reading of the gospel , prostrate , or incline themselves at the confession : if they appoint tapers and lamps to be used in churches , to represent our saviour who came to enlighten the world ; and incense to be used , to mind the people , that their hearts and prayers should , l●ke the smoak , ascend d●rectly toward heaven : if in the administration of the sacraments , in exorcisms , in the offices , and the celebration of the mass , these determine several rites and ceremonies to be observ'd , for more decency , greater solemnity , and that by such exteriour helps the minds of the faithful may be moved to the contemplation of the sacred mysteries , and rais'd more sensibly to the apprehension of the majesty of god , in whose honour all is pe●form'd ; they look upon themselves bound to allow and embrace all these things , without reluctance or opposition ; always thinking that to be most proper which is instituted by such who have the rule over them . and if any endeavour to raise disputes , and be contentious concerning the necessity of these institutions , they have no such custom , neither the churches of god. one thing they know to be necessary , that is , that they should be obedient ; and that in the service of god they must not honour him as the iews did , isa. . . by doing their own ways , finding their own pleasure , and speaking their own words ; but as christians are commanded , in a true self-denial , a sincere humility and obedience , submitting to those whom god has left to rule and govern the flock . neither is there any danger of falling back into the iewish law , by approving the allow'd ceremonies of the church ; it being certain , that in the abrogation of the old law , all ceremonies were not at the same time extinct ; but only such as were mere types and figures of things to come in the new law , which are now fulfill'd : whilst others ( fit for the raising devotion , and expressing the affections of the soul , and other such ends , ) are still commendably retain'd as lawful , and equally necessary now , as heretofore : such are , kneeling , fasting , lifting hands and eyes to heaven , sighing , knocking the breast , days of humiliation , thanksgiving , watching , hair-cloth , singing , impositions of hands , benedictions , using oyl , spittle , breathing , &c. all which ●re as lawful , convenient , and necess●ry for christians , as they were for iews ; and no more to be neglected , because they were us'd in the old law , than praying , meeting , reading the law , singing psalms , humility , and obedience , &c. are to be laid by , and disown'd by christians because they were observed by the iews : especially since these , with many others , have been recommended to us by the practice of christ and his apostles , and of all primitive christianity . neither has the use of holy ceremonies been wholly disapproved by those of the reformation . the english profession of faith , publish'd in the year . allows them in the th . article . the bohemick confession in the th . article , anno . the augustine , tit. de miss anno . as it was penn'd by melancthon . so that since ceremonies are generally look'd on as commendable and lawful amongst christians ; the papists judge it proper to those who have the rule , to order and dispose of them , and declare to the flock , how , when , and where they are to be observed . and if they who govern judge fit to oblige the faithful to the observance of any in particular , they teach that it is the duty of the flock to obey . things indifferent , after such commands , being no longer of choice but necessary ; and no less obliging than the commands of a father to his child ; where , in case the thing be not apparently sinful , 't is no persw●sion of the thing being superfluous , can excuse an obstinate denial from disobedience . it being more safe and christian like for all that are under any government , whether natural , ecclesiastical , or civil , to perform and comply with such things as they judge in their own private sentiments unnecessary , m●rely upon the account of being commanded , than upon such considerations , to disturb the order of government , and fly in the face of lawful authority ; than which nothing is more opposite to the principles of christianity , and destructive of all humane society . and upon these grounds it is , that the papists founding themselves upon the sure foundation of huminity and obedience , have in all ages acknowledged overseers and rulers over them to watch and feed the flock , to whom god hath given power ; there being no power but of god , and that whosoever resisteth the power , resisteth the ordinance of god , and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation , romans . , . xxxvi . of ceremonies and ordinances . his discourse on this head is against those who refuse to obey their superiours in things not expressed in scripture , which is no part of our controversie with them . but yet there are several things about their ceremonies we are not satisfied in : as , . the mighty number of them which have so much muffled up the sacraments , that their true face cannot be discerned . . the efficacy attributed to them , without any promise from god ; whereas we own no more but decency and significancy . . the doctrine that goes along with them , not only of obedience , but of merit ; and some have asserted the opus operatum of ceremonies as well as sacraments , when the power of the keys goes along with them ; i. e. when there hath been some act of the church exercised about the matter of them ; as in the consecration of oyl , salt , bread , ashes , water , &c. xxxvii . of innovations in matters of faith. his church has made several innovations in matters of faith , and howsoever she lays claim to antiquity , with a pretence of having preserv'd the doctrine of the apostles inviolable and entire ; yet 't is evident to any serious observer , that the greatest part of her belief is mere novelties ; that bearing date from christ or his apostles , but only from some of her own more modern synods . there scarce having pass'd any age yet , wherein there has not , in these ecclesiastical mints , been coyn'd new articles , which , with the counterfeit stamp of christ and his apostles , are made to pass for good and currant , amongst his credulous and undiscerning retainers : and besides these , what a great number of errors have been introduc'd at other times ; how many did pope gregory bring in , and how many the ignorance of the tenth age ? so that if we compare the church of rome now , with the primitive times of the first three or four hundred years , there are no two things so unlike ; she is a garden now , but quite overgrown with weeds ; she is a field , but where the tares have perfectly choaked up the wheat , and has little in her of apostolical , besides the name . his church has never made any innovation in matters of faith ; what she believes and teaches now being the same that the catholick church believ'd and taught in the first three or four centuries after the apostles . and though in most of her general councils there has been several decisions touching points of faith ; yet can no one , without an injury to truth , say , that in any of these has been coin'd new articles , or christians forced to the acceptance of novelties , contrary to the scripture , or ancient tradition . these have only trodden in the apostles steps , as often as they have been in the like circumstances with them ; doing exactly according to the form and example left to the church by those perfect masters of christianity . and therefore as the apostles in their assembly , acts . determin'd the controversie concerning the circumcision ; and proposed to the faithful what was the doctrine of christ in that point , of necessity to be believ'd ; of which till that decision there had been rais'd several questions and doubts ; but now no longer to be questioned , without the shipwrack of faith. so in all succeeding ages the elders of the church , to whom the apostles left their commission of watching over the flock , in their councils have never scrupled to determine all such points which had been controverted amongst the brethren , and to propose to them what of necessity they were to believe for the future , with anathema pronounced against all such as should presume to preach the contrary . thus in the year . the first nicene council declar'd the son of god to be consubstantial to his father , against the arians ; with an obligation on all to assent to this doctrine , though never till then propos'd or declar'd in that form. thus in the year . the holy ghost was declar'd to be god ; against macedonius and his followers , in the first constantinopolitan council . and in the first ephesin , anno . nestorius was condemned , who maintain'd two persons in christ , and that the blessed virgin was the mother of god ; with a declaration , that both these tenets were contrary to the catholick faith. in the second nicene council , anno . image-breakers were anathematiz'd . and so others at other times ; and at last , in the council of trent , was declar'd the real presence , transubstantiation , purgatory , the lawfulness of the invocation of saints , of keeping holy images , &c. against luther , calvin , beza , &c. and now , tho in all these and the other general councils the persons condemned took occasion , from these new declarations , to cry out , novelties , novelties , to fright the people with the noise of new coin'd articles , and that the inventions of men were impos'd on them , for faith. yet 't is evident , that these new declarations contain'd nothing but the antient faith ; and that there had never been any such declarations made , had not the doctrine propos'd in them , being oppos'd and contradicted by some seducing spirits , who going out from the flock , endeavour'd by making divisions , to draw numbers after them . so that the new proposal of a tenet , is but a fallacious proof of the doctrine being lately invented , but a good argument of its being lately oppos'd . 't is certain from scripture , acts . that the apostles had never declar'd the non-necessity of circumcision , had not certain men come down from iudea and taught the brethren the contrary . and that the consubstantiality of the son , had never been defin'd by the nicene fathers . had not arius , with his followers , oppos'd this catholick doctrine . and as certain it is , that the council of trent had been altogether silent as to transubstantiation , praying to saints , purgatory , &c. had not luther , calvin , and their disciples , once professors of this doctrine , gone out from the flock , and upon the presumption of a new light , e●deavour'd to perswade the faithful , that these tenets , then believ'd by the whole christian world , were no longer to be own'd , but to be quite thrown by , as antichristian and diabolical . 't was this oblig'd the pastors to watch and take care of their flock , and therefore not flying away , as the hireling does , when the wolf catcheth , and scattereth the sheep , they assembled together in a body , and declar'd to all under their charge , that they ought not to follow strangers ; that howsoever they came pretending to the shepherd's voice ; yet since they came not by the door into the sheepfold , but climbing up some other way , they were no shepherds , but thieves and robbers ; such whose business was not to feed , but to steal , kill and destroy . 't was this made them encourage all under their care , not to waver ; but to stand fast , and hold the profession of their faith , and notwithstanding all pretences , by no means to suffer themselves to be deluded , and led away with strange doctrine ; and that they might the better secure them from falling into errors , they gave them a draught of their christian doctrine ; especially of all those points , which these modern self commissionated apostles did preach against , and endeavour to undermine ; particularly declaring to them , the faith they had been bred up in , which they had receiv'd from their forefathers , and been deriv'd even from the apostles . securing them , that whatsoever was contrary to this , was novelty and error . and now in the pastors declaring this to the faithful , where was the innovation ? the council did nothing but propose fully and explicately , what , before their meeting , was the doctrine of all christendom , and had been so amongst the primitive fathers . 't was they made innovation , who preach'd contrary to the doctrine thus believ'd and receiv'd ; which luther was not asham'd to own himself guilty of ; plainly acknowledging , that he seperated from the whole world. but it seems that the whole world was then corrupted , and the religion then every where profess'd , was overgrown with superstitions , errors and abominations ; such as had crept into the church , some five hundred years before , some nine hundred , and some a thousand ; and 't was from these luther seperated , intending to reform christianity , and bring it to the purity of the primitive times , of the first three hundred years . and was it not very strange now , that so many gross fooleries , idle superstitions , and even down-right idolatry , should c●eep into a church , and spreading it self through all nations , infect the whole world , becoming the publick profession of christendom for so many hundred years , and be confirm'd and establish'd by the laws of every kingdom ; and that no body should take notice of any such thing , either at its first rise , or in all its progress of so many years : insomuch , that had not luther made the discovery , 't is likely we should never have come to the knowledge of these thousand years errors and corruptions : no thinking man certainly , but judges it impossible , that the very fundamentals of christianity should be shaken , and the religion planted by the apostles turned into idolatry ; and yet that no leaned man should any where appear to contradict these abominations , no zealous pastors to withstand them , no pious princes to oppose them : history sufficiently satisfies any curious reader , that from the first planting of the church , there has been in no age , any man yet that has preach'd any heterodox and erroneous tenets , and by introducing novelties , has endeavour'd to infect the minds of the faithful with heresie and superstition , but immediately have stood up virtuous and learned men , in defence of the truth , in their writings and sermons publickly confuting and condemning the errours , and giving an alarm to the world , to beware of such deceivers , and their wicked doctrine ; and withal , never omitting , to record their names to posterity ; with an account of the year when they began to preach , under what emperours , and what was the occasion of their revolt . was not all this , and even more done against arius ? how many appear'd against the manichees ? how many against the donatists ; against the novatians , against the macedonians , the nestorians , the eutychians , the pelagians , the berengarians , &c. so that never any thing has made so much noise in the world , so many commotions , so many disturbances ; nothing as been so impossible to be carryed on with secresie and silence , as the broaching any new heresie , the making a schism , the alteration of religion , the starting up of some new society and pretenders to reformation . what tumults did all the fore-mentioned apostles raise ; disturb'd at the doctrine of mahomet , and the crying up the alcoran ? what stirs and commotions at the reformation of church and faith , pretended by luther , zwinglius and calvin ? how then can it be judg'd in the least probable , that great variety of erroneous tenets and antichristian doctrine should be introduc'd by the papists , contrary to the sense and belief of all christianity , either in the fourth , fifth , sixth or tenth century ; and yet that there should not be the least d●sturbance occasion'd by it , not tumults or opposition ; but all done with so much quietness , in such a profound peace and silence , that had it not been for the news brought , some ages after , we had never suspected the alteration ? and is this possib●e ? is it possible , that the whole c●ristian world should change their religion , both as to the internal belief , and external profession and exercise of it ; and no body be sensible of the change , so as to withstand the abomination , or to transmit to posterity , even so much as the least word of its beginning or propogation ? let any man upon some consideration , tell me , whether it be possible , that this one little kingdom of england should fall from this pure apostolical doctrine it now professes , into down right popery , ( or any other way alter the whole scheme of its religion ) and have the alteration co●firmed by several acts of parliament , and continue in the publick exercise of it for a thousand , five hundred , or even one hundred years , and yet no one in this kingdom , or out of it , should be sensible of the alteration ; but also to be manag'd with such policy and craft , that the whole business should be a secret for many age ? and if this be scarce to be thought possible of this one kingdom ; what can be imagin'd , when 't is affirm'd of many nations of the whole christian world ; can any thing look more like a fable or romance ? or can any rational man , barely upon such a report , condemn the faith and religion of his ancestors , for novelty and humane inventions ; and quite laying aside this , take him for the rule of his reformation , who thus , without reason , justice or truth , has thrown such an infamy upon all the christians preceeding him for a thousand years ? but not to insist upon these reasonings , for the wiping off the scandal of novelty from the doctrine of the church of rome ; 't would not be amiss here , to look beyond the tenth century , as also beyond the time of pope gregory . and if in those earlier christians , nothing can be found of that faith and profession , which is charged as novelty and error against the church of rome , all the papists in the world shall join with their adversaries , and condemning pope gregory for a seducer , and all of the tenth age for so many ignoramus's , shall in one voice with them cry out against all such doctrine , novelty , novelty , errour , errour . but if , on the contrary , every point thus challeng'd of novelty , shall appear to have been the profession of the faithful in the time of the purity of the gospel ; if before pope gregory we find that invocation of saints , the real presence , transubstantiation , purgatory , prayer for the dead , the use of holy images , relicks , the sign of the cross , procession , &c. were a receiv'd doctrine , and common practice of christians in those primitive times ; then shall the papists remain as they are , as being of the same faith and religion , with those antient believers , without any additions and alterations ; and all their adversaries ought in justice to return again to their communion , and making up one q●ite , cry out with them ; blessed are they who believe as our forefathers believ'd , who receiv'd their faith from the apostles and their successors ; and accursed be they , who separate from this faith , and upon the noise of novelty and errour , make divisions in the church , and fall from her communion , believing lies rather than truth . in order to this , i intended in this place to have given the reader a fair prospect of the doctrine and belief of the fathers , at the first five hundred years after christ ; but finding the matter to increase so much beyond expectation upon my hands , i have reserv'd them for another occasion . but however , upon confidence of what i am able to produce in that point , i cannot omit to assure the reader , that the chief , and most material points charg'd upon the church of rome for novelty , the primitive fathers do so plainly own to have been the faith and profession of the church in their days ; and to have been deliver'd down , and taught as the doctrine of the apostles ; that an impartial considerer need not take much time to conclude , whether are the greater innovators , those that now believe and profess these tenets and practices ; or they that disown or rej●ct them . 't is evident , that every point of that doctrine , which is now decry'd for popery , and basely stigmatiz'd with the note of errors introduc'd of late , and of a modern invention , is by many ages older than those , who are reputed to be the authors ; that every particular article laid to the ignorance of the tenth century , and to the contrivance of pope gregory , are as expresly and clearly own'd , and taught some ages before , as it is now at this day . that those great men were as down-right papists in these points , as we are now . and that any disturber of christianity might have as well def●n'd them for believers of novelties and errours , as we are now at this present . the faith that they profess'd then , we profess now ; and if any of our doctrine be novelty , 't is a novelty of above twelve hundred years standing : and who can question it not to be of an older date ? if it was the publick belief of the christian world , in the fourth century , who can be better witnesses of what was beli●v'd before them , even in the third age , than they ? they tell us , that the doctrine they maintain and deliver , is the faith of the catholick church , receiv'd from their fore-fathers , and as it was taught by the apostles , and we don't find , that in any of these points , they were challeng'd by any authority , or opposed by the pastors of the church , or any writers , either then living , or succeeding them , but received always with great veneration ; and upon what grounds can any challenge them now ( is it possible , that any living now , can give a better account of what was believ'd and practis'd in the third age , than they that immediately follow'd them : which will be more credible witnesses of what was done in forty eight ; those that shall be alive fifty years hence ; or they that are not yet to come these thousand years ? if therefore these holy men declare to us the doctrine they b●liev'd ; with an assurance , that it was the faith of the catholick church , so believ'd by their ancestors , and as they had receiv'd it from the apostles and their successors ; do not they deserve better credit , than others , who coming a thousand years after , cry out against all these several points , that they are nothing but novelty and errour ? 't is evident therefore to him , that this noise of novelty , was nothing but a stratagem for the introducing of novelties ; and that those that brought an infamy upon these points , by this aspersion , might with as great applause every , and as easily have laid a scandal upon other articles of the christian faith , which they thought sit to retain , and have had them all exploded for novelty . and this has been so far done already , that even three parts of that doctrine , pick'd out by the first reformers , for apostolical , and conform to the word of god , we have seen in our days clamem'd against for novelty , and thrown by with as general approbation , and as clear evidence of the charge , as ever they laid by transubstantiation and the primacy . the first reformers cast off the authority of the first bishop as being a novelty ; others soon alter cry'd down the authority of all bishops , for a novelty . the first disown'd a great part of the priestly function , as being lately crept in ; the others disown'd all the rest , and even ordination it self , as having all crept in together . the first threw out a great number of ceremonies , as being not apostolical , but of a modern institution : the others threw out even what they had retain'd , for being no more an ordination of the apostles , than the former . the first laid by five of the sacraments ; the others laid by the other two . and thus novelty was the word , whensoever any receiv'd doctrine of christianity was to be outed , and may to be made for a novelty : and he does not doubt , but , that if the noise of novelty continue long , so unhappily successful as of late , and the liberty be permitted to every presuming spirit , to fix this scandal upon whatsoever doctrine or institution they shall think fit ; that all christianity is in a fai● way of being thrown out of doors : and the bible , preaching , catechising christ's incarnation and passion , &c. is as likely to b● cast off for a novelty , as all the rest have been . those that will but shew to the people , that even these things have been all receiv'd from rome , and that the papists by their missionaries , spread these doctrines over the world , may soon perswade them , they are nothing but popish inventions , meer novelties ; that those that began the reformation , did their business by halves , and that the world will never be throughly reform'd , till all these romish superstitions , are laid by with the rest ; they being of the same date . he takes no notice thereof of all the clamours rais'd against several points of the receiv'd doctrine of his church ; his faith is founded on better principles , than to be shaken with such a vulgar engine . novelty , novelty , is a cry , that may fright unthinking men from their religion ; but every serious man will require better motives than a noise , before he forsake any point of his faith ; and 't is impossible he should joyn with any in condemning such things for novelties , which he finds the profession of all antiquity . xxxvii . of innovation in matters of faith. the substance of his discourse on this head may be reduced to these things . . that the church in every age hath power to declare what is necessary to be believed , with anathema to those who preach the contrary ; and so the council of trent , in declaring transubstantiation , purgatory , &c. to be necessary articles , did no more than the church had done before on like occasions . . that if the doctrines then defined had been innovations , they must have met with great opposition when they were introduced . . that those who charged those points to be innovations , might as well have laid the scandal on any other article of faith which they retained . these are things necessary to be examined , in order to the making good the charge of innovation in matters of faith , which we believe doth stand on very good grounds . . we are to consider , whether the council of trent had equal reason to define the necessity of these points , as the council of nice and constantinople had to determin the point of the trinity ; or those of ephesus and chalcedon , the truth of christ's incarnation . he doth not assert it to be in the churches power to make new articles of faith , as they do imply new doctrines reveal'd ; but he contends earnestly , that the church hath a power to declare the necessity of believing some points which were not so declared before . and if the necessity of believing doth depend upon the churches declaration , then he must assert , that it is in the churches power to make points necessary to be believed which were not so ; and consequently to make common opinions to become articles of faith. but i hope we may have leave to enquire in this case , since the church pretends to no new revelation of matters of doctrine , therefore it can declare no more than it receives , and no otherwise than it receives . and so nothing can be made necessary to salvation but what god himself hath made so by his revelation . so that they must go in their declaration either upon scripture , or universal tradition ; but if they define any doctrine to be necessary without these grounds , they exceed their commission , and there is no reason to submit to their decrees , or to believe their declarations . to make this more plain by a known instance : it is most certain that several popes and councils have declared the desposing doctrine , and yet our author saith , it is no article of faith with him . why not , since the popes and councils have as evidently delivered it , as the council of trent hath done purgatory , or transubstantiation ? but he may say , there is no anathema joined to it . suppose there be not ; but why may it not be , as well as in the other cases ? and if it were , i wou●d know , whether in his conscience he would then believe it to be a necessary article of faith , thô he believed that it wanted scripture and tradition ? if not , then he seees what this matter is brought to , viz. that althô the council of trent declare these new doctrines to be necessary to be believed ; yet if their declaration be not built on scripture and universal tradition , we are not bound to receive it . . as to the impossibility of innovations coming in without notorious opposition , i see no ground at all for it , where the alteration is not made at once , but proceeds gradually . he may as well prove it impossible for a man to fall into a dropsy or a hectick-fever , unless he can tell the punctual time when it begun . and he may as well argue thus , such a man fell into a fever upon a great debauch , and the physicians were presently sent for to advise about him ; therefore the other man hath no chronical distemper , because he had no physicians when he was first sick ; as because councils were called against some heresies , and great opposition made to them , therefore where there is not the like , there can be no innovation . but i see no reason why we should decline giving an account , by what d●grees , and steps , and upon what occasions , and with what opposition several of the doctrines defined at trent were brought in . for the matter is not so obscure as you would make it , as to most of the points in difference between us . but that is too large a task to be here undertaken . . there is no colour for calling in question the articles of faith received by us on the same grounds that we reject those defined by the council of trent ; for we have the universal consent of the christian world for the apostles creed ; & of the general councils for the doctrines of the trinity and incarnation ; who never pretended to determine any point to be necessary which was not revea●ed in scripture ; whose sense was delivered down by the testimony of the christian church from the apostles times but the council of trent proceeded by a very different rule ; for it first set up an unwritten word to be a rule of faith , as well as the written ; which althô it were necessary in order to their decrees , was one of the greatest innovations in the world ; and the foundation of all the rest , as they were there established . the conclusion . these are the characters of the papist , as he is mis-represented , and as represented . and as different as the one is from the other , so different is the p●pist , as reputed by his maligners , from the papist , as to what he is in himself . the one is so absurd and monstrous , that 't is impossible for any one to be of that profession , without first laying by all thoughts of christianity , and his reason . the other is just contradictory to this ; and without any farther apology , may be expos'd to the perusal of all prudent and unpassionate considerers , to examine if there be any thing in it that deserves the hatred of any christian : and if it be not in every point wholly conform to the doctrine of christ , and not in the least contrary to reason . the former is a papist , as he is generally apprehended by those who have a protestant education ; such , as whensoever reflected on , is conceiv'd to be a perverse , malicious sort of creature , superstitious , idolatrous , atheistical , cruel , bloody-minded , barbarous , treacherous , and so prophane , and every way inhumane , that 't is in some manner doubted , whether he be man or no. the other is a papist , whose faith is according to the proposal of the catholick church ; which by christ's command he is oblig'd to believe and hear , and whose whole design in this world is for obtaining salvation in the next . and is it not strange , that these two characters so directly opposite , so wholly unlike one the other , that heaven and hell is not more , should agree to the same person : 't is certainly a strange piece of injustice , and yet not at all strange to those who know , that they that follow christ shall be hated by the world , that those who study the wisdom of heaven shall have the repute of fools ; and that as many as attend the lamb , shall be painted in the livery of satan . our fore-fathers were so before us ; all the primitive christians , the apostles , and even the lamb himself , our redeemer . calumny ever follow'd them , mis representation waited upon them ; and what wonder that infamy was their constant attendance ? and now if the orthodox christians have thus in all ages had their double character , one of justice , exactly drawn from what they really believ'd and practis'd ; the other of malice , copied from them , as mis-represented ; 't is not at all strange to find it so now in our days , when calumny , malice , ignorance , &c. are as powerful as ever ; who , though from the beginning of the world , that is above five thousand years , they have made it their chief business to paint , copy , and represent things and persons ; yet they never did it with so much injury , so altogether unlikely , as they do now to the papists ; there being scarce any one point of their faith and profession which they do not blindly mistake , or basely disguise . the papists believe 't is convenient to pray before holy images , and give them an inferiour or relative respect . these describe the papists praying to images , and worshipping them as idols . the papists believe 't is good to desire the prayers of the saints , and honour them as the friends of god these paint out the papists as believing saints to be their redeemers , and adoring them as gods. the papists believe , that christ left a power in the priests of his church , to absolve all truly penitent sinners from their offences . these representing the papists as believing , that the priests can infallibly forgive all such as come to confession , whether they repent or no. the papists believe there 's power in the supreme pastor , upon due motives , of granting indulgences ; that is , of releasing to the faithful such temporal penalties as remain due to their past sins , already remitted as to their guilt , on condition they perform such christian duties as shall be assign'd them , i. e. humble themselves by fasting , confess their sins with a hearty repentance , receive worthily , and give alms to the poor , &c. these make the papists believe , that the pope , for a sum of money , can give them leave to commit what sins they shall think ●it , with a certain pardon for all crimes already incurr'd ; and that there can be no danger of damnation to any that can but make a large present to rome at his death . the papists believe , that by the merits of christ , the good works of a just man are acceptable to god , and through his goodness and promise meritorious of eternal happiness . these report , that the papists believe they can merit heaven by their own works , without any dependance on the work of our redemption . the p●p●sts worsh●p christ really present in the sacrament , true god and man. these say they fall down to , and worship a piece of bread. some papists maintain the deposing power : these will have it to be an article of their faith ; and that they are oblig'd to 't by their religion . some papists have been traytors , rebels , conspirators &c. these make these villanies to be meritorious among the papists , and that 't is the doctrine of their church . and thus there is scarce any one thing belonging to their faith and exercise of their religion , which is not wrong'd in the describing it , and injuriously mis-represented . and if any be so curious , as to desire to be satisfied how this comes about , let him but stand by any of the undertakers , while they are taking the copy of popery , and observe their method , and he may soon come to the bottom of the mystery . he may see them seriously viewing some of her tenets , and upon a short consideration , immediately to fall to the making inferences , and deducing consequences , then down go these for so many articles of popery . they go on , and see other of her tenets , and these containing mysteries , such as reason cannot reach to , when faith is not an assistant , they are presently follow'd with variety of absurdities , and seeming contradictions : and down go these to the former , for so many articles of popery . they p●ss●on to others , and these being not conform to the principles of their education , several misconstructions are presently rais'd upon them , and down go these for so many articles of popery . they look forward , and seeing others , in the practice of which many abuses have been committed ; then down go the abuses for so many articles of pop●ry . he●ce they turn to the court of rome , and as many d●sorders and extravagances as they find there , so many articles of popery . they enquire into the actions and lives of her pastors and prelates , and as many vices , as many wicked designs they discover there , so many articles of popery . they examine the behaviour of her professors , and whatsoever villanies , whatsoever treasons and inhumanities , they find committed by any that own themselves members of that communion , down they all go for so many articles of popery . they hear the reports of such as have deserted her authority , and tho through th●●r extravagancies and rashness they deserve not credit even in a trifle , yet their whole narrative shall be accepted , and all their idle stor●es be summ'd up for so many ar●icles of popery . they peruse every scurrilous pamphlet and abusive libel , and such ridiculous f●bles as are only sit for a chimney-corner , they borrow thence , and set them down for so many articles of popery . they turn over every p●pish author , and whatsoever light , loose , or extravagant opinions , whatsoever discourses carried on either through flattery , disgust , or faction , appear in any of them , they are all mark'd out for so many articles of popery . and by these and such like means is finish'd at last a compleat d●aught of popery , in which she is render'd so foul , monstrous , and abominable , that there can be nothing raked from the very sinks of turcism , nothing borrow'd from the wild africans , or barbarous americans , that can make her more odious , or add to her deformity . why , and is not popery then such as 't is thus generally painted ? no , 't is no more like it , than monarchy is to that which turbulent republican spirits shew for it ; when displaying to the multitude some miscarriages of state , frailties in persons in dignities , abuses of government , &c. they cry out . behold this is monarchy . by this means making it infamous among the people , that they may more easily overthrow it . and are not the papists such as they are commonly represented ? no : they are no more alike than the christians were of old under the persecuting emperors , to what they appear'd when cloathed with lions and bears skins they were exposed in the amphi-theatre to wild beasts ; under those borrow'd shapes to provoke their savage opposites to greater fury ; and that they might infallibly , and with more rage , be torn in pieces , let monarchy be shewn in its own colours , and the christians be expos'd in their own form , and one will have but few maligners , and the others will meet with a more tame behaviour , even from the wildest beasts . let any but search into the c●uncils of the church of rome , even that of trent , than which none can be more popish ; let them peruse her catechisms , that , ad parochos , or others set forth for pastors to instruct their flock , and for children , youth , and others to learn their christian doctrine , of which there is extant great variety in english : let them examine vernon's rule of faith , and that set forth by the bishop of condan : let them look into the spiritual books of direction , those of bish●p sales , the following of christ , the christian rules , the spiritual combat , granado's works , and infinite others of this sort , which papists generally keep by them for their instruction : and then let them freely declare whether the papists are so ill principled , either as to their faith or morals , as they are generally made appear . a little diligence in this kind , with a serious inquiry into their conversation , their manner of living and dying , will easily discover , that that of beast , with which they are commonly expos'd to publick , is not theirs , but only of the skin , that is thrown over them . the papists own , that there are amongst them men of very ill lives , and that if every corner be narrowly sifted , there may be found great abuses , even of the most sacred things ; that some in great dignities have been highly vilious , and carried on wicked designs ; that some authors maintain and publish very absurd opinions , and of ill consequence . but these things are nothing of their religion , they are imperfections indeed , the crimes , the scandals of some in their communion ; but such they are so far from being oblig'd to approve , maintain or imitate , that they wish with all their heart , there had been never any such thing , and desire in these points a thorough reformation . thô the imprudences therefore , the failings , the extravagancies , the vices , that may be pick'd up , throughout the whole society of papists , are very numerous and great , and too too sufficient , if drawn together , for the composing a most deform'd antichristia●-monster ; yet the popery of the roman-catholicks is no such monster , as 't is painted . those things which are commonly brought against them , being as much detested by them , as by the pers●ns that lay the charge of their dis-favour ; and having no more relation to them , than weeds and tares to the corn amongst which it grows ; or ch●ff to the wheat , with which it lies mix'd in one heap . a papists therefore is no more than he is above represented ; and whosoever enters that communion , has no obligation of believing otherwise , then as there specified . and thô in each particular , i have cited no authorities , yet for the truth and exactness of the character , i appeal to the council of trent . and if in any point it shall be found to disagree , i again promise , upon notice , publickly to own it . and as for the other part , of the papist mis-represented , it contains such tenets as are wrongfully charged upon the papists ; and in at many respects , as it is contrary to the other character ; in so many , it is contrary to the faith of their church : and so far , they are ready to disown them , and subscribe to their condemnation . and though any serious enquirer may be easily satisfied as to the truth of this ; yet for a publick satisfaction , to shew that those abominable unchristian doctr●nes are no part of their belief , ( however extravagant some men may be in their opinions ; ) the papists acknowledg that a faith assenting to such tenets , is wholly opposite to the honour of god , and destructive to the gospel of christ , and do publickly invoke god almighty's iudgments upon that church , which teaches either publickly or privately such a faith. and since 't is lawful for any christian to answer amen , to such anathema ' , as are pronounc'd against things apparently sinful ; the papists , to shew to the world that they disown the following tenets , commonly laid at their door ; do here oblige themselves , that if the ensuing curses be added to those appointed to be read on the first day of lent ; they will seriously and heartily answer amen to them all . i. cursed is he that commits idolatry ; that prays to images or relicks , or worships them for god. r. amen . ii. cursed is every goddess worshiper , that believes the virgin mary to be any more than a creature ; that honour her , worship her , or puts his trust in her more than in god ; that believes her above her son , or that she can in any thing command him . r. amen . iii. cursed is he that believes the saints in heaven to be his redeemers , that prays to them as such , or that gives god's honour to them , or to any creature whatsoever . r. amen . iv. cursed is he that worships any breaden god , or makes gods of the empty elements of bread and wine . r. amen . v. cursed is he that believes that priests can forgive sins whether the sinner repent or no : or that there 's any power in earth or heaven that can forgive sins , without a hearty repentance and serious purpose of amendment . r. amen . vi. cursed is he that believes there 's authority in the pope or any others , that can give leave to commit sins ; or that can forgive him his sins for a sum of money . r. amen . vii . cursed is he that believes ( that independent of the merits and p●ssion of christ ) he c●n merit salvation by his own good works ; or make condign satisfaction for the guilt of his sins , or the pains eternal due to them . r. amen . viii . cursed is he that contemns the word of god , or hides it from the people , on design to keep them from the knowledge of their duty , and to preserve them in ignorance and error . r. amen . ix . cursed is he that undervalues the word of god , or that forsaking scripture chuses rather to follow humane traditions than it . r. amen . x. cursed is he that leaves the commandments of god , to observe the constitutions of men. r. amen . xi . cursed is he that omits any of the ten commandments , or keeps the people from the knowledge of any one of them , to the end they may not have occasion of discovering the truth . r. amen . xii . cursed is he that preaches to the people in unknown tongues , such as they understand not ; or uses any other means to keep them in ignorance . r. amen . xiii . cursed is he that believes that the pope can give to any , upon any account whatsoever , dispensation to lie or swear falsly ; or that 't is lawful for any , at the last hour to protest himself innocent in case he be guilty . r. amen . xiv . cursed is he that encourages sins , or teaches men to defer the amendment of their lives , or presumption of their death-bed-repentance . r. amen . xv. cursed is he that teaches men that they may be lawfully drunk on a friday or any other fasting-day , tho they must not taste the least bit of flesh. r. amen . xvi . cursed is he who places religion in nothing but a pompous shew consisting only in ceremonies ; and which teaches not the people to serve god in spirit and truth . r. amen . xvii . cursed is he who loves or promotes cruelty , that teaches people to be bloody-minded , and to lay aside the meekness of iesus christ. r. amen . xviii . cursed is he who teaches it lawful to do any wicked thing , tho it be for the interest and good of mother-church : or that any evil action may be done that good may come on it . r. amen . xix . cursed are we , if amongst all those wicked principles and damnable doctrines commonly laid at our doors , any one of them be the faith of our church : and cursed are we , if we do not as heartily detest all those hellish pract●ces as they that so vehemently urge them against us . r. amen . xx. cursed are we , if in an answering , and saying amen to any of these curses , we use any equivocations , mental reservations ; or do not ass●nt to them in the common and obvious sense of the words . r. amen . and can the papists then , thus seriously , and without check of conscience , say amen to all these curses ? yes they can , and are ready to it whensoever , and and as often as it shall be requir'd of them . and what then is to be said of those who either by word or writing , charge these doctrines upon the faith of the church of rome . is a lying spirit in the mouth of all the prophets ? are they all gone aside ? do they b●ck b●te with their tongue , do evil to their neighbour , and take up reproach against th●ir neighbour ? i 'll say no such thing , but leave the impartial considerer to judge . one thing i can safely affirm , that the papists are foully mis represented , and shew in publick as much unlike what they are , as the christians were of old by the gentiles ; that they lie under a great calumny , and severely smart in good name , persons , and estates , for such things which they as much and as heartily detest as those who accuse them . but the comfort is , christ has said to his followers , ye shall be hated of all men , ( matth. . . ) and saint paul , we are made a spectacle unto the world ; and we don't doubt , that who bears this with patience , shall for every loss here , and content , receive a hundred fold in heaven : for base things of the world , and things which are despi●ed , hath god chosen , ● corinth . . . an answer to the conclusion . having thus gone through the several heads which our author complains have been so much mirsrepresented ; it is now fit to consider what he saith in his conclusion , which he makes to answer his introduction , by renewing therein his doleful complaints of their being misrepresented just as christ and his apostles , and the primitive christians were . i hope the former discourse hath shewed their doctrines and practices are not so very like those of christ and his apostles , and the primitive christians , that their cases should be made so parallel : but as in his conclusion he hath summed up the substance of his representations , so i shall therein follow his method , only with this difference , that i shall in one column set down his own representations of popery , and in the other the reasons , in short , why we cannot embrace them . wherein popery consists as represented by this author . . in using all external acts of adoration before images , as kneeling , praying , lifting up the eyes , burning candles , incense . &c. not merely to worship the objects before them , but to worship the images themselves on the account of the objects represented by them : or in his own words , because the honour that is exhibited to them , is referred to the prototypes which they represent . . in joining the saints in heaven together with christ in intercession for us , and making prayers on earth to them on that account . . in allowing more supplications to be used to the blessed virgin , than to christ ; for he denies it to be an idle superstition , to repeat ten ave maria's for one pater-noster . . in giving religious honour and respect to relicks . such as placing them upon altars , burning wax candles before them , carrying them in processions , to be seen , touched , or humbly kissed by the people : which are the known & allowed practices in the church of rome . . in adoring christ as present in the eucharist on the account of the substance of bread and wine being changed into that body of christ which suffered on the cróss . . in believing the substance of bread and wine , by the words of consecration , to be changed into his own body and blood , the species only or accidents of bread and wine remaining as before . . in making good works to be truly meritorious of eternal life . . in making confession of our sins to a priest in order to absolution . . in the use of indulgences for taking away the temporal punishments of sin remaining due after the guilt is remitted . . in supposing the penitent sinner may in some measure satisfie by prayer , fasting , alms , &c. for the temporal pain , which by order of god's iustice sometimes remains due , after the guilt and the eternal pain are remitted . . in thinking the scripture not fit to be read generally by all , without licence , or in the vulgar tongue . . in allowing the books of tobit , judith , ecclesiasticus , wisdom , maccabees , to be canonical . . in preferring the vulgar latin edition of the bible before any other , and not allowing any translations into a mother-tongue to be ordinarily read . . in believing that the scripture alone can be no rule of faith to any private or particular person . . in relying upon the authority of the present church for the sense of scripture . . in receiving and believing the churches traditions as the doctrine of christ and his apostles , and assenting to them with divine faith , just as he doth to the b●ble . . in believing that the present guides of the church being assembled in councils for preserving the unity of the church , have an infallible assistance in their decrees . . in believing the pope to be the supreme head of the church under christ , being successor to s. peter to whom he committed the care of his flock . . in believing that communion in both kinds is an indifferent thing ; and was so held for the first four hundred years after christ , and that the first precept for receiving under both kinds , was given to the faithful by pope leo i. and confirmed by pope gelasius . . in believing that the doctrine of purgatory is founded on scripture , authority , and reason . . in believing that to the saying of prayers well and devoutly , it is not necessary to have attention on the words , or on the sense of prayers . . in believing that none out of the communion of the church of rome can be saved ; and that it is no uncharitableness to think so . . in believing that the church of rome , in all the new articles defined at trent hath made no innovation in mat ters of faith. our reasons against it in the several particulars . . thou shalt not make to thy self any graven image , or any likeness of any thing in heaven , or earth , &c. thou shalt not bow down to them , nor worship them . which being the plain , clear , and express words of the divine law , we dare not worship any images , or representations , lest we be found transgressors of this law. especially since god herein hath declared himself a iealous god ; and annexed so severe a sanction to it . and since he that made the law is only to interpret it , all the dictinctions in the world can never satisfy a mans conscience , unless it appear that god himself did either make or approve them . and if god allow the worship of the thing represented by the representation , he would never have forbidden that worship absolutely , which is unlawful only in a certain respect . . we have an advocate with the father , iesus christ the righteous , john . . and one mediator between god and men , the man christ iesus , tim. . . for christ is entered into heaven it self , now to appear in the presence of god for us , heb. ▪ . and therefore we dare not make other intercessors in heaven besides him : and the distance between heaven and us , breaks off all communication between the saints there , and us upon earth ; so that all addresses to them now for their prayers , are in a way very different from desiring others on earth to pray for us : and if such addresses are made in the solemn offices of divine worship , they joyn the creatures with the creator in the acts and signs of worship , which are due to god alone . . call upon me in the day of trouble , i will deliver thee , and thou shalt glorifie me , ps●l . . . when we pray to our father in heaven , as our saviour commanded us , we do b●t what both natural and christian religion require us to do : but when men pray to the blessed virgin for help and protection now , and at the hour of death , they attribute that to her , which belongs only to god , who is our helper and defender : and altho christ knew the dignity of his mother above all others , he never gives the least encouragement to make such address●s to her : and to suppose her to have a share now in the kingdom of christ in heaven , as a copartner with him is to advance a creature to divine honour , and to overthrow the true ground of christs exaltation to his kingdom in heaven , which was , his suffering on the cross for us . . and no man knoweth of the sepulchre of moses unto this day , deut. . . why should god hide the body of moses from the people , if h● allowed giving religious honour and respect to relicks ? why should hezekiah break in pieces the brazen serpent , because the children of israel did burn incense to it ? kings . . especially when it was a type or representation of christ himself , and god had wrought many miracles by it . . whom the heaven must receive until the times of the restitution of all things , acts . . and therefore in the eucharist we adore him , as sitting on the right hand of god ; but we dare not direct our adoration to the consecrated host , which we believe to be the substance of bread and wine , ( tho consecrated to a divine mystery ) and therefore not a fit object for our adoration . . the bread which we break , is it not the communion of the body of christ , cor. . . this is spoken of the bread after consecration , and yet the apostle supposes it to be bread still , and the communion of his body is interpreted by the next words , for we being many are one bread , and one body ; for we are all partakers of that one bread , v. . which is very different from the bread being changed into the very body of christ ; which is an opinion that hath no foundation in scripture , and is repugnant to the common principles of reason , which god hath given us , and exposes christian religion to the reproach and contempt of iews , turks and infidels . . when you shall have done all those things which are commanded you , say , we are unprofitable servants , we have done that which was our duty to do . st. luke . . and therefore in no sense can our best works be truly meritorious of eternal life : which consisting in the enjoyment of god , it is impossible there should be any just proportion or due commensuration between our best actions and such a reward . . and the son said to him , father i have sinned against heaven , and in thy sight , s. luke . . where confession to god is required because the offence is against him , but it is impossible for any man upon earth to forgive those whom god doth not forgive : and he alone can appoint the necess●ry conditions of pardon , among which true contrition and repentance is fully declared , but confession to a priest , thô it may be useful for the ease of the penitent , is no where in scripture made necessary for the forgiveness of sin. . i said , i will confess my transgressions unto the lord ; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin , psal. . . if god doth fully forgive the guilt of sin , there remains no obligation to punishment ; for where-ever that is , the guilt remains : it is true , god may not sometimes fully pardon ; but he may reserve some temporal punishment here for his own honour , or the chastisement of a penitent sinner : but then what have any men to do , to pretend that they can take off what god thinks fit to lay on ? can any indulgences prevent pain or sickness , or sudden death ? but if indulgences be understood only with respect to canonical penances , they are a most notorious and inexcusable corruption of the discipline of the ancient church . . for if when we were enemies , we were reconciled to god by the death of his son ; much more being reconciled , we shall be saved by his life , romans . . and therefore no satisfaction to the justice of god is now required from us , for the expiation of any remainder of guilt . for if christ's satisfaction were in it self sufficient for a total remission , and was so accepted by god , what account then remains for the sinner to discharge , if he perform the conditions on his part ? but we do not take away hereby the duties of mortification , prayer , fasting , and alms , &c. but there is a difference to be made between the acts of christian duties , and satisfaction to divine iustice for the gu●lt of sin , either in whole or in part . and to think to joyn any satisfactions of ours together with christ's , is like joyning our hand with god's in creating or governing the world. . let the word of christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom ; teaching and admonishing one anot●er , &c. col. . . how could that dwell richly in them , which was not to be communicated to them , but with great caution ? how could they teach and admonish one another in a language not understood by them ? the scriptures of the new testament were very early perverted ; and if this reason were sufficient to keep them out of the hands of the people , certainly they would never have been published for common use , but as prudently dispensed then , as some think it necessary they should be now . but we esteem it a part of our duty , not to think our selves wiser than christ or his apostles , nor to deprive them of that unvaluable treasure which our saviour hath left to their use . . all scripture is given by inspiration of god , tim. . . holy men of god spake as they were moved by the holy ghost , pet. . . therefore , where there is no evidence of divine inspiration , those books cannot be made canonical . but the jewish church , to whom the oracles of god were committed , never deliver'd these books as any part of them , being written when inspiration was ceased among them . and it is impossible for any church in the world to make that to be divinely inspired , which was not so from the beginning . . but i say , have they not heard ? yes verily , their sound went into all the earth , and their words unto the ends of the world , rom. . . therefore the intention of god was , that the gospel should be understood by all mankind ; which it could never be , unless it were translated into their several languages . but still the difference is to be observed between the originals and translations ; and no church can make a translation equal to the original . but among translations , those deserve the greatest esteem which are done with the greatest fidelity and exactness . on which account , our last translation deserves a more particular regard by us ; as being far more useful to our people , than the vulgar latin , or any translation made only from it . . thy word is a lamp unto my feet , and a light unto my path , psalm . . which it could never be , unless it were sufficient for necessary direction in our way to heaven . but we suppose persons to make use of the best means for understanding it , and to be duely qualified for following its directions : without which , the best rule in the world can never attain its end. and if the scripture have all the due properties of a rule of faith , it is unconceivable why it should be denied to be so ; unless men find they cannot justify their doctrines and practices by it , and therefore are forced to make tradition equal in authority with it . . wo unto you lawyers , for ye have taken away the key of knowledg ; ye entred not in your selves , & them that were entring in ye hindred . s. luk. . . from whence it follows , that the present guides of the church may be so far from giving the true sense of scripture , that they may be the chief means to hinder men from right understanding it . which argument is of greater force , because those who plead for the infallibility of the guides of the present church , do urge the promises made to the jewish church at that time ; as our author doth from those who sat in the chair of moses , and from cal●phas his prophesying . . we have also a more sure word of prophesie ; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed . pet. . . and yet here the apostle speaks of something delivered by the testimony of those who were with christ in the holy mount. from whence we infer , that it was not the design of christ to l●ave us to any vocal testimony , bu● to refer us to the written word , as the most certain found●tion of faith. and it is not any p●●sons assum●ng the title of the cathol●ck church to themselves , can give them authority to impose any traditions on the faith of christians ; or require them to be believed equally with the written word . for before any traditions can be assented to with divine faith , the churches authority must be proved to be divine and infallible , either by a written or unwritten word ; but it can be done by neither , without overthrowing the necessity of such an infallibility in order to divine faith ; because the testimony on which the churches infallibility is proved , must be received only in a way of credibility . . also of your own selves shall men arise , speaking perverse things to draw away disciples after them , acts . . which being spoken of the guides of the christian church , without limitation of number , a possibility of error is implied in any assembly of them ; unless there were some other promises which did assure us , that in all great assemblies the spirit of god shall always go with the casting voice , or the greater number . . and he gave some apostles , and some prophets , and some evangelists , and some pastors and teachers — for the edifying of the body of christ — till we all come in the unity of the faith , &c. ephes. . , , . now here being an account given of the officers christ appointed in his church , in order to the unity and edification of it , it had been unfaithfulness in the apostle to have left out the h●ad of it , in case christ had appointed any . because this were of more consequence than all the rest , being declared necessary to salvation to be in subjection to him . but neither this apostle , nor st. peter himself , give the least intimation of it . which it is impossible to conceive should have been left out in the apostolical writings upon so many occasions of mentioning it , if ever christ had instituted a headship in the church , & g●ven it to s. peter and his successors in the see of rome . . for as often as ye eat this bread , and drink this cup , ye do shew the lord's death till he come , cor. . . the apostle speaking to all communicants , plainly shews , that the institution of christ was , that all should partake of both kinds , and so to continue to do as long as this sacrament was to shew forth the death of christ , viz. till his second coming . and there is no colour for asserting the christian church ever looked on observing christs institution in this matter as an indifferent thing ; no not for a thousand years after christ. altho the practice and the obligation are two things , yet when the practise was so agreeable to the institut●on , and continued so long in the church , it is hardly possible for us to prove the sense of the obligation , by a better way than by the continuance of the practise . and if some traditions must be thought binding , and far from being indifferent , which want all that evidence which this practise carries along with it , how unreasonable is it in this case to allow the practise , and to deny the obligation ? . and whom he justified them he also glorified , rom. . . but whom god justifies , they have the remission of their sins as to eternal punishment . and if those who are thus justified , must be glorified , what place is there for purgatory ? for there is not the least intimation of any other state of punishment that any who are justified must pass through before they are admitted to glory . we grant they may , notwithstanding ▪ pass through many intermed●a●e trials in this world ; but we say , where there is justification , there is no condemnation ; but where any part of guilt remains unremitted , there is a condemnation remaining so far as the punishm●nt extends . and so this distinction as to eternal and temporal pains , as it is made the foundation of purgatory , is wholly groundless ; and therefore the doctrine built upon it can have no foundation in scripture or reason . . i will pray with the spirit , and i will pray with the understanding also , cor. . . what need this praying with the understanding , if there were no necessity of attending to the sense of prayers ? for then praying with the spirit were all that was required ; for that supposes an attention of the mind upon god. and i can hardly believe any man that thinks with understanding , can justifie praying without it ; especially when there are exhortations and invitations to the people to joyn in those prayers , as it is plain there are in the roman offices . . then peter opened his mouth , and said , of a truth i perceive that god is no respecter of persons ; but in every nation , he that feareth god and worketh righteousness , is accepted with him , acts . , . whereby we perceive , that god doth not limit the possibility of salvation under the gospel to communion with the see of rome ; for if s. peter may be believed , the capacity of salvation depends upon mens fearing god and working righteousness ; and it is horrible uncharitableness to exclude those from a possibility of salvation , whom god doth not exclude from it . . that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered to the saints , jude v. . therefore all necessary doctrines of faith were at first delivered ; and whatever articles cannot be proved to have been delivered by the apostles , can never be made necessary to be believed in order to salvation . which overthrows the addit●onal creed of pius iv. after the council of trent ; and puts them upon the necessity of proving the universal tradition of those doctrines from the apostolical times : and when they do that , we may think better of them than at present we do ; for as yet we can see neither scripture , nor reason , nor antiquity for them . thus i have represented that kind of popery which our author , ( who complains so much of misrepresenting ) allows ; and i have in short set down how little ground we have to be fond of it ; nay , to speak more plainly , it is that we can never yield to , without betraying the truth , renouncing our senses and reason , wounding our consciences , dishonouring god and his holy word and sacraments , perverting the doctrine of the gospel as to christ's satisfaction , intercession , and remission of sins ; depriving the people of the means of salvation which god himself hath appointed , and the primitive church observed , and damning those for whom christ died . we do now in the sincerity of our hearts appeal to god and the world , that we have no design to mis-represent them , or to make their doctrines and pract●ses appear worse than they are : but take them with all the advantages even this author hath set them out with , we dare appeal to the judgments and consciences of any impartial men , whether ( the scripture being allowed on both sides ) our doctrines be not far more agreeable thereto than the new articles of trent , which are the very life and soul of popery ? whether our worship of god be not more suitable to the divine nature and perfections , and the manifestations of his will , than the worship of images , and invocation of fellow-creatures ? whether the plain doctrine of the necessity of repentance and sincere obedience to the commands of christ , do not tend more to promote holiness in the world , than the sacrament of penance , as it is delivered and allowed to be practised in the church of rome , i. e. with the easiness and efficacy of absolution , and getting off the remainders by indulgences , satisfactions of others , and prayers for the dead ? whether it be not more according to the institution of christ to have the communion in both kinds , and to have prayers and the scriptures in a language which the people understand ? and lastly , whether there be not more of christian charity in believing and hoping the best of those vast bodies of christians who live out of the communion of the church of rome , in the eastern , southern , western ; and northern parts , than to pronounce them all uncapable of salvation on that account ? and therefore out of regard to god and the holy religion of our blessed saviour ; out of regard to the salvation of our own and other souls , we cannot but very much prefer the communion of our own church before that of the church of rome . but before i conclude all , i must take some notice of his anathema's : and here i am as much unsatisfied as in any other part of his book , and that for these reasons . . because he hath no manner of authority to make them , suppose they were meant never so sincerely : and if we should ever object them to any others of that church , they would presently say , what had he to do to make anathema's ▪ it belongs only to the church and the general councils to pronounce anathema's , and not to any private person whatsoever . so that if he would have published anathema's with authority , he ought to have printed those of the council of trent ; viz. such as these , cursed is he that doth not allow the worship of images . cursed is he that saith saints are not to be invocated . cursed is he that doth not believe transubstantiation , purgatory , &c. . because he leaves out an anathema in a very material point , viz. as to the deposing doctrine . we do freely , and from our hearts anathematize all such doctrines as tend to dissolve the bonds of allegiance to our sovereign , on any pretence whatsoever . why was this past over by him , without any kind of anathema ? since he seems to approve the oxford censures . why did he not here shew his zeal against all such dangerous doctrines ? if the deposing doctrine be falsly charged upon their church , let us but once see it anathematized by publick authority of their church , and we have done : but instead thereof , we find in a book very lately published with great approbations , by a present professor at lovain fr. d'enghien , all the censures on the other side censured and despised , and the holding the negative as to the deposing doctrine , is declared by him to be heresie , or next to heresie : the censure of the sorban against sanctarellus , he saith , was only done by a faction ; and that of sixty eight doctors there were but eighteen present ; and the late censure of the sorban , he saith , was condemned by the inquisition at toledo , j●n . . . as erroneous and schismatical ; and so by the clergy of hungary , oct. . . we do not question but there are divines that oppose it ; but we fear there are too many who do not ; and we find they boast of their own numbers , and despise the rest as an inconsiderable party : this we do not misrepresent them in , for their most approved books do shew it . however , we do not question , but there are several worthy and loyal gentlemen of that religion , of different principles and practices ; and it is pity such be not distinguished from those who will not renounce a doctrine so dangerous in the consequences of it . . because the anathema's he hath set down , are not penned so plainly and clearly as to give any real satisfaction ; but with so much art and sophistry , as if they were intended to beguile weak and unwary readers , who see not into the depth of these things , and therefore may think he hath done great matters in his anathema's , when if they be strictly examined , they come to little or nothing ; as , . cursed is he that commits idolatry . an unwary reader would think herein he disowned all that he accuses of idolatry ; but he doth not curse any thing as idolatry , but what himself thinks to be so . so again , cursed is he ( not that gives divine worship to images , but ) that prays to images or relicks as gods , or worships them for gods. so that if he doth not take the images themselves for gods , he is safe enough from his own anathema . . cursed is every goddess worshiper , i. e. that believes the blessed virgin not to be a creature . and so they escape all the force of this anathema . cursed is he that honours her , or puts his trust in her more than in god. so that if they h●nour her and trust in her but just as much as in god , they are safe enough ; or that believes her to be above her son : but no anathema to such as suppose her to be equal to him . . cursed is he that believes the saints in heaven to be his redeemers , that prays to them as such . what if men pray to them as their spiritual guardians and protectors ? is not this giving god's honour to them ? doth this deserve no anathema ? . cursed is he that worships any breaden god , or makes gods of the empty elements of bread and wine : viz. that supposes them to be nothing but bread and wine , and yet supposes them to be gods too . doth not this look like non-sense ? and yet i am afraid our author would think it a severe anathema in this matter , to say , cursed is he who believes nonsense and contradictions . it will be needless to set down more , since i have endeavoured by clear stating the several controversies to prevent the readers being imposed upon by deceitful anathema's . and yet after all he saith , cursed are we , if in answering and saying amen to any of these curses , we use any equivocations or mental reservations , or do not assent to them in the common and obvious use of the words . but there may be no equivocation in the very words , and yet there may be a great one in the intention and design of them : there may be none in saying amen to the curses so worded : but if he would have prevented all suspicion of equivocation , he ought to have put it thus ; cursed are we if we have not fairly and ingenuously expressed the whole meaning of our church as to the points condemned in these anathema's ; or if we have by them designed to deceive the people : and then i doubt he would not so readily have said amen . the contents .   papist . protestant .   page . page . the introduction and answer . of praying to images . of worshipping saints . of addressing more supplications to the virgin mary than to christ. of paying divine worship to relicks . of the eucharist . of merits and good works . of confession . of indulgences . of satisfaction . of reading the holy scriptures . of apochryphal books . of the vulgar edition of the bible . of the scripture as a rule of faith. of the interpretation of scripture . of tradition . of councils . of infallibility in the church . of the pope . of dispensations . of the deposing power . of communion in one kind . of the mass. of purgatory . of praying in an unknown tongue . of the second commandment . of mental reservations . of a death-bed repentance . of fasting . of divisions and schisms in the church . of fryars and nuns . of wicked principles and practices . of miracles . of holy-water . of breeding up people in ignorance . of the vncharitableness of the papists . of ceremonies and ordinances . of innovations in matters of faith. the conclusion and answer to it . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e apog . c. . sp. anno . par. . (a) spond . an. . (b) id. anno . (c) apo. c. . (d) apo. c. . (e) p. . pag. . notes for div a -e bulla pii ●i super confirmat . concil . tridentini . notes for div a -e the veno● voy●ge 〈◊〉 in●es p. . bernier memoirs . tom. . p. . suarez i● . per● . qu. ● . disp. . §. . . ●● . 〈◊〉 , ● § . bellarmine de imag. l. . c. . ● . con●il . trident sess. . moy●n● surs & 〈…〉 co●version de to●s les here●iqu●s . to. . p. . entre●iens de philal●the & phile●●ne . da part . p. . catechis . rom. part. . ●● . §. . notes for div a -e ep. ad rom. cor. eph. notes for div a -e sect. . wicel . in elencho abusuum . vives in aug. de c●●it . dei l. . c. . 〈◊〉 de philalethe & ●hi●erene part . p. , . ●● . catech. rom. part . c. . n. , . catech. rom. part. . c. . n. , . cum praesint nobis sancti & rerum nostrarum curam gerant . bellarm. de sanct. beatit . l. . c. . §. deinde . nou solum ab a●gelis sed etiam à spiritibus bearorum hominum regi & gubernari fideles viv●n●es . id. ib. c. . §. nos au●em . john . , , , , . heb. . . & . , . jo. . . tim. . . notes for div a -e s. bonavent . opusc. tom. . ad sin . s. bernardin . sen. apud bernadin . a bustis marial . part . serm. . balinghem parnass . marian . p. . mendoza . virid . sacr. l. . probl. . & . salazar pro immac . concept . c. . i ●er . peres de nueros lapidicina sacra tr. . sect. . n. . viridar . sacr. l. . probl. . n. . la veritable devotion envers la s. vierge etable & defendu par le pere crasset à paris , a. d. . monita salutaria b. v. mariae ad cultores suos indiscretos §. . n. . §. . contemplations of the life and glory of holy mary , the mother of jesus , a. d. . pag. . pag. . bellarm. de culiu sanct. l. . c. . inis . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . alanus de rupe de usu psalierii , l. . c. . notes for div a -e ferrandi disquisitio reliquiaria . de imag. sanct l. . c. . cassand . consult . art. . tract . special . . controv. . rabat . ioy de iansenist , a. d . notes for div a -e pallavicin . his .. concil . trident. l. . c. . roffeus . c. occolamp . l. . c. . coster . enchirid . c. . n. . catharin . in cajet . p. , & c.. ed. paris . lugdan . . vasq. in part . disc. . q. art. . c. . cajetan . in part. q. . art. , , . s. luk. . . s. john. . , . bellarm. de incarn . l. . c. . petav. de incarnatione p. . c. . §. . notes for div a -e concil . trident sess. . can. . meritum est actio libera cul merces debetur ex justitiâ . coster . enchirid. de meritis bon . oper. c. . in quantum homo propriâ voluntate facit id quod debet , meretur apud deum , alioquin reddere debitum non esset meritorum . aquin . , . qu. . artic . . resp . ad . . meritum se habet ad praemium sicut pretium ad illud quod emitur . altisiodor . l. . tr . . absoluta aequalitas inter mercedem & meritum poni●ur per modum iustitiae commutativae . bell. iustis . l. . c. . tim. . . notes for div a -e sess. . can. . sess. . c. . lomb. l. . dist. . grat. d● poenit. dist. . c. . quidam . greg. de valentià . de necessit . confess . c. . maldonat . oper to. . de poenit. c. , & . john . . s. mat. . . mark . . iansen . concor . evang. c. . caiet●n . in . loc . ed. paris , . catharin . i● cajetan . l. . p. . vasques . ● : . part. th. tom. . qu. . art. . dub. . num. . greg. de valent . in thom. tom. . disp. . qu. p. punct . . p. . bonavent . in l. . sent. dist. . part godign . de rebus abyssin . l. . c. . trinerarium orientale . l. . c. . galan . concil . eccl. armenae . tom. . p. . historie critique de la creance & de courums des nations du levant . c. . p. . ch. . pap . . resp. . ierem. patriarch . ad theolog. wirtemberg . p. . arcud . de concord . ecclesiae occident . & orient . in sacram . l. . c. . goar in eucholog . p. . notes for div a -e tractat. tractatuum . to. . part. . s. . espencae . in ep. ad tit. c. . digress . . bullar . cherubin . in to. . p. . prorsus mandamus angelis paradisi , quantum animam illius à purgatorio peni●us absolutam in paradisi gloriam introducant . bulla clem. . vltrajecti a. d. . gobel . person . gosmodr . aet . . c. . p. . bullar . to. . p. . to. . p. . greg. de valent . de indulg . . bell. de indulg . i. . c. . c. . notes for div a -e catech. roma● . part . . c. . n. . . catech. rom. de panit . sacr. n. . notes for div a -e quod quidem in●iold●e serus d●m est . clem. viii . ad r●g . indicis roman . notes for div a -e consil. trident. s●ss . . . ap. de canon scrip● . bp cosins scholastical history of the canon of scripture . greg. nazianzen . in carmin . vol. p. . . orat. de maccab . ●ol . . p. . ambros. de iacob . & vitae erat . l. . c. , , . coc●i . thes. cathol . l. . act. . scholastical history , n. . euseb. l. . ● . . orig. pref. in psal. athan. in synopsi . hilar pres . in psal. s. cyril . cawe● . . epip . har . . basil. philo●al . c. . amphil. epist. canon . ad selenc . chrys. hom . . in gen. scholast . hist. n. . cathar . adver . cajet . p. . ed. paris . notes for div a -e in hac vulg●●a editione visa sunt nonuulla mutanda . qu●e consul●o m●tata non sunt . clem. viii . in buila . luc. brugens . in variis lect. nat. alexan. dissert . de vulg . vers . quaest . . notes for div a -e conti●v . . qu. . art . . notes for div a -e . thes. . . notes for div a -e chr. . . chrysost. in mat. hom. hieron . in loc . caten . gr. in loc . hilar. canon . . theophilact . in loc . matt. . notes for div a -e cerem . §. . c. . matt. . . chrysost. hom . . in p●ntec . tom. . ed. savill . p. ● . am●●●s● de incar●●● . dom. sacramento c. . a●pus● . de verbis dom. ad evang. secund . matth. serm. . tract . in joh. . basil. seluc . orat. . ad sin . hilar. de trinit . l. . greg. nyssen de advent . domini cap. ult . theodoret epist. . . matt. . . orig. comment . in mat. gr. lat. p. . cyprian de unit . ecclesiae . hillar . de trinit . l. . hier. c. jovin l. . c. . in matt. . aug. in joh. tr. . . in epist. joh. to. . moyens surs & honestes , &c. p. . &c. entretiens de philaleth . et phileren . p. . joh. lannoi . epist. part . reim . formentino , & part. . ep. . p. , &c. notes for div a -e de concess . praebend è proposuit . abb. c. proposuit de conc. praebend . c. . q. . c. auctoritate . sum. angelic . v. dispensatio . jacobat . de conciliis l. . p. . almain de potest . ecclesia c. ● . catharin . ● . cajetan . . p. . sanchez . d● mattrim l. . dis. . n. . say● . clavis reg. l. . c. . s●●●ez de vot . l. . c. . n. , , , . notes for div a -e discussio decreti magni concil . late●●● . p. . discuss . dis●u●s . part . sect. . p. : philip. a ss . trinir . itiner . orient . l. c . clem. galan . concil . eccl. arm. qu. . ss . p. . iesuits loyalt●● first treatise , p. . &c. auctoritas seatis . apostolicae vindicata adversus natal . alexand. per francisc. d. enghien . colon . a.d. . notes for div a -e s. john . . tract . . in epist. s. joh. cotovic . itiner . hierosolymit . l. . c. . histoir . critique , p. . p. . notes for div a -e sess . cap. . can , , , &c. p. . notes for div a -e leo allat . de purgat . p. levit. . . bellar. de p●●gat . l . c. . can. l. ● . c ● . ●. . aug. cont ad epist. gaudent l. c. . de purgat . l. c. . natal . alex. sec. diss. . bell. de an. christi l. . c. . s. th● part . q. art . in cor . v. marsil . column . hydragiolog sect. . ● . . n. . 〈◊〉 . c. . n. c . n. . bell. de cultu sanct. l c. . sect. se●undo . de purgatorio l. . c. . ss . haec sunt . notes for div a -e apud g. abl●de de mendacio , &c. in praef. p. . &c. notes for div a -e reginald . praxis . l. c. . n. . less . de justit . l. . c. . dub. . n. . instruct. sacerd . l. . c. . n. . p. zacch . qu. medico legales l. . tit . . qu. p , , pasqual . decif . . n. . dian. sam. v. jejun . n. . zach. pasqualigi , praxis jejunii eccles. decis , n. . dec. . , . decis . . n. . decis . . n . less . ubi supr . n. . tolet ubi sup . regin . ubi sup . n. . notes for div a -e moyens surs & honestes . &c. to. . p. . notes for div a -e hydragiolog . sect. . c. . . p. . valles . sacr. philosoph . c. . p. . de cultu sanct. l. . c. . notes for div a -e * collectio authorum vulg. versionis damnantium jussu . ac mandato cleri g●llicani edita lutet . paris . . notes for div a -e sess. quarta . notes for div a -e auctoritas sedis apostolicae in reges . p. . ad . p. . irenicum a weapon-salve for the churches wounds, or the divine right of particular forms of church-government : discuss'd and examin'd according to the principles of the law of nature .../ by edward stillingfleete ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s a_variant estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) irenicum a weapon-salve for the churches wounds, or the divine right of particular forms of church-government : discuss'd and examin'd according to the principles of the law of nature .../ by edward stillingfleete ... stillingfleet, edward, - . the second edition : [ ], p. printed for henry mortlock.., london : . imperfect: pages stained. reproduction of original in the huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -- government. church polity. excommunication. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion ●ren●cum . a vveapon-salve for the churches wounds , or the divine right of particular forms of church-government : discuss'd and examin'd according to the principles of the law of nature , the positive laws of god , the practice of the apostles , and the primitive church , & the judgment of reform'd divines . whereby a foundation is laid for the churches peace , and the accommodation of our present differences . humbly tendered to consideration . by edward stillingfleete , rector of sutton in bedfordshire . the second edition . with an appendix concerning the power of excommunication in a christian church . let your moderation be known unto all men , the lord is at hand , phil. . . si ad decidendas hodierna● controversias — jus divinum à positivo seu ecclesiastico candid● separaretur ; non videretur de iis quae sunt absolutè necessaria , inter pios aut moderatos viros longa aut aeris contentio futura . isaac . casaub. ep . ad card. perron . multum refer● ad re●inendam ecclesiarum pacem inter ea quae jure divino praecepta sunt , & quae non sunt , accuratè distinguere . grot. de imper. sum potestat . circa sacra . cap. . london , printed for henry mortlock , at the phoenix , in st. pauls church-yard , neer the little north door . . the preface to the reader . i write not to increase the controversies of the times , nor to foment the differences that are among us ; the one are by far too many , the other too great already . my onely design is to allay the heat and abate the fury of that ignis sacer , or erysipelas of contention , which hath risen in the face of our church , by the overflowing of that bilious humour which yet appears to have too great predominancy in the spirits of men . and although with the poor persian i can onely bring a hand full of water , yet that may be my just apology , that it is for the quenching those flames in the church , which have caused the bells of aaron to jangle so much , that it seems to be a work of the greatest difficulty to make them tunable . and were this an age wherein any thing might be wondered at , it would be matter of deserved admiration , to hear the noise of these axes and hammers so much about the temple , and that after these nigh twenty years carving and hewing , we are so rude and unpolished still , and so far from being cemented together in the unity of the spirit and the bond of peace . may we not justly fear that voyce , migremus hinc , when we see the vail of the temple so rent asunder , and the church its self made a partition wall to divide the members of it ? and since the wise and gracious god hath been pleased ( in such an almost miraculous manner ) so lately to abat● the land-flood of our civil intestine divisions , how strange must it needs seem , if our sacred contentions ( if contentions may be call'd sacred ) like the waters of the sanctuary , should rise from the ankle to the knee , till at last they may grow unpassable ? must onely the fire of our unchristian animosities be like that of the temple , which was never to be extinguished ? however i am sure it is such a one as was never kindled from heaven , nor blown up with any breathings of the holy and divine spirit . and yet that hath been the aggravation of our divisions , that those whose duty it is to lift up their voyces like trumpets , have rather sounded an allarm to our contentious spirits , then a parley or retreat , which had been far more suitable to our messengers of peace . in which respect it might be too truly said of our church , what is spoken of the eagle in the greek apologue : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the eagle saw her breast was wounded sore , she stood and weeped much , but grieved more : but when she saw the dart was feather'd , said , woo's me , for my own kind hath me destroy'd . it is not so long since that version of the vulgar latine , psal. . . inter domini cleros ▪ might have been sadly rendred to lye among the pots : and pierius valerianus might have met with too many examples to have increased his book de literatorum infoelicitate ; and in the next age it might have been true again what matthew paris observes of the clergy in the conquerours time ; adeò literaturâ carebant ut caeteris stupori esset qui grammaticam didic●sset . but blessed be god who hath freed us from that daemonium meridianum of ignorance and barbarism ; may we be but as happily delivered from the plague of our divisions and animosities ! than which , there hath been no greater scandal to the iews , nor opprobrium of our religion among heathens and mahumetans , nor more common objection among the papists , nor any thing which hath been more made a pretence even for atheism and infidelity . for our controversies about religion have brought at last even religion it self into o controversie , among such whose weaker judgements have not been able to discern where the plain and unquestionable way to heaven hath lain in so great a mist as our disputes have raised among us . weaker heads when they once see the battlements shake , are apt to suspect that the foundation its self is not firm enough ; and to conclude , if any thing be call'd in question , that there is nothing certain . and truly it cannot but be looked on as a sad presage of an approaching famine , not of bread , but of the word of the lord , that our lean kine have devoured the fat , and our thin ears the plump and full ; i mean ; our controversies and disputes , have eaten so much out the life and practice of christianity . religion hath been so much rarified into aiery notions and speculations , by the distempered heat of mens spirits , that its inward strength , and the vitals of it have been much abated and consumed by it . curiosity , that green-sickness of the soul , whereby it longs for novelties , and loaths sound and wholsome truths , hath been the epidemical distemper of the age we live in . of which it may be as truly said as ever yet of any , that it was saecolum f●rtile religionis , sterile pietatis ; i fear this will be the character whereby our age will be known to posterity , that it was the age wherein men talked of religion most , and lived it least . few there are who are content with the dimensum which god hath set them ; every one almost is of the spanish iesu●tes mind ; beatus qui praedicat verbum inauditum , seeking to find out somewhat whereby he may be reckoned , if not among the wise , yet among the disputers of this world. how small is the number of those sober christians , of whom it may be said as lucian of his parasites , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they were not at leisure to be sick of this pica ( tim. ● . ) such as longed more to taste of the tree of life , then of the tree of knowledge : and as zenophon speaks of the persians , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they consume the fomes morbi , the root of the distemper by their serious endeavours after peace and holiness . but instead of this , the generality of men let all their religion run up into bryers and thorns , into contentions and parties , as though religion were indeed sacramentum militiae , but more against fellow-christians then the unquestionable hinderances of mens eternal happiness . men being very loath to put themselves to the trouble of a holy life , are very ready to embrace any thing which may but dispense with that ; and if but listing mens selves under such a party , may but shelter them under a disguise of religion , none more ready then such to be known by distinguishing names ; none more zealous in the defence of every tittle and punctilio that lies most remote from those essential duties wherein the kingdome of god consists , viz. righteousness and peace , and ioy in the holy ghost . and hence all the several parties among us have given such glorious names onely to the outward government of the church ; the undoubted practise of the apostles , the discipline of christ , the order of the gospel , and account onely that the church where their own method of government is observed ; just as the historian observes of brutus and cassius , ubicunque ipsi essent praetexentes esse rempublicam , they think the church can never be preserved but in that v●ssel they are imbarked in : as though christ could not have caused his flock to rest ▪ sub meridie , unless the pars donati had been in the south . and from this monopolizing of churches to parties , hath proceeded that strange uncharitableness towards all who come not up to every circumstance of their way and method , which is a piece of prudence like that of brutus , who when he had raised those flames in the common-wealth , was continually calling caesar tyrant ; ita enim appellari caesarem , facto ejus expediebat . so when men have caused such lamentable divisions in the church , by their several parties and factions , it concerns them to condemn all others beside themselves , le●t they most of all condemn themselves for making unnecessary divisions in the church of god. this uncharitableness and ill opinion of all different parties , onely gathers the fuel together , and prepares combustible matter , which wants nothing but the clashing of an adverse party , acted upon principles of a like nature , to make it break out into an open flame . and such we have seen , and with sadness and grief of heart felt it to be in the bowels of our own church and nation , by reason of those violent calentures and paroxysms of the spirits of men , those heart-burnings and contentions which have been among us , which will require both time and skill to purge out those noxious humours which have been the causes of them . i know no prescriptions so likely to effect this happy end , as an infusion of the true spirits of religion , and the revulsion of that extravasated blood , into its proper channels : thereby to take men off from their e●ger pursuit after wayes and parties , nations and opinions , ( wherein many have run so far , that they have left the best part of their religion behind them ) and to bring them back to a right understanding of the nature , design and principles of christianity . christianity , a religion , which it is next to a miracle men should ever quarrel or fall out about ; much less that it should be the occasion , or at least the pretence , of all that strife and bitterness of spirit , of all those comentions and animosities which are at this day in the christian world. but our onely comfort is , that whatever our spirits are , our god is the god of peace , our saviour is the prince of peace ; and that ▪ wisdome which this religion teacheth , is both pure and peaceable . it was that which once made our religion so amiable in the judgement of imrartial heathens , that nil nisi justum suadet & lene , the court of a christians conscience was the best court of equity in the world . christians were once known by their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the b●nignity and sweetness of their disposition , by the candour and ingenuity of their spirits , by their mutual love ▪ forbearance , and condescension towards one another . but , aut hoc non est evangelium , aut nos non sumus evangelici , either this is not the practice of christianity , or it was never calculated for our meridian ▪ wherein mens spirits are of too high an elevation for it . if pride and uncharitableness , if divisions and strifes ▪ if wrath and envy , if animosities and cont●ntions were but the marks o● true christians , diogenes●●●●er ●●●●er need light his lamp at noon to find out such among us . but if a spirit of meekness , gentleness , and condescension , if a stooping to the weakness and infirmities of others , if a pursuit after peace even when it flies from us , be the indispensable duties and the characteristical notes of those that have more then the name of christians , it may possibly prove a difficult inquest to find out such for the crouds of those who shelter themselves under that glorious name . whence came it else to be so lately looked on as the way to advance religion , to banish peace , and to reform mens manners by taking away their lives ? whereas in those pure and primitive times when religion did truly flourish , it was accounted the greatest instance of the piety of christians not to fight but to dye for christ. it was never thought then that bellona was a nursing mother to the church of god , nor mars a god of reformation . religion was then propagated , not by christians shedding the blood of others , but by laying down their own . they thought there were other wayes to a canaan of reformation besides the passing through a wilderness of confusion , and a red sea of blood . origen could say of the christians in his time , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . they had not yet learnt to make way for religion into mens mind , by the dint of the sword , because they were the disciples of that saviour who never pressed followers as men do soldiers , but said , if any man will come after me , let him take up his cross ( not his sword ) and follow me . his was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , his very commands shewed his meekness ; his laws were sweet and gentle laws ; not like draco's that were writ in blood , unless it were his own that gave them . his design was to ease men of their former burdens , and not to lay on more ; the duties be required were no other but such as were necessary , and withall very just and reasonable . he that came to take away the insupportable yoke of iewish ceremonies , certainly did never intend to gall the necks of his disciples with another instead of it . and it would be strange , the church should require more then christ himself did ; and make other conditions of her communion , then our saviour did of discipleship . what possible reason can be assigned or given , why such things should not be sufficient for communion with a church , which are sufficient for eternal salvation ? and certainly those things are sufficient for that , which are laid down as the necessary duties of christianity by our lord and saviour in his word . what ground can there be why christians should not stand upon the same terms now which they did in the time of christ and his apostles ? was not religion sufficiently guarded and fenced in them ? was there ever more true and cordial reverence in the worship of god ? what charter hath christ given the church to bind men up to , more then himself hath done ? or to exclude those from her society , who may be admitted into heaven ? will christ ever thank men at the great day for keeping such out from communion with his church , whom he will vouchsafe not onely crowns of glory to , but it may be aureolae too , if there be any such things there ? the grand commission the apostles were sent out with , was onely to teach what christ had commanded them . not the least intimation of any power given them to impose or require any thing beyond what himself had spoken to them , or they were directed to by the immediate guidance of the spirit of god. it is not , whether the things commanded and required be lawfull or no ? it is not , whether indifferencies may be determined or no ? it is not , how far christians are bound to submit to a restraint of their christian liberty ? which i now inquire after , ( of those things in the treatise its self ) ; but , whether they do consult for the churches peace and unity who suspend it upon such things ? how far either the example of our saviour or his apostles doth warrant such rigorous impositions ? we never read the apostles making lawes but of things supposed necessary . when the councel of apostles met at ierusalem , for deciding a case that disturbed the churches peace , we see they would lay no other burden 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , besides these necessary things , acts . . it was not enough with them that the things would be necessary when they had required them , but they looked on an antecedent necessity either absolute or for the present state , which was the onely ground of their imposing those commands upon the gentile-christians . there were after this great diversities of practice and varieties of observations among christians , but the holy ghost never thought those things fit to be made matters of lawes to which all parties should conform ; all that the apostles required as to these , was mutuall forbearance and condescension towards each other in them . the apostles valued not indifferencies at all , and those things it is evident they accounted such , which whether men did them or not , was not of concernment to salvation . and what reason is there why men should be so strictly tied up to such things , which they may do or let alone , and yet be very good christians still ? without all controversie , the main in-let of all the distractions , confusions , and divisions of the christian world , hath been by adding other conditions of church-communion then christ hath done . had the church of rome never taken upon her to add to the rule of faith , nor imposed idolatrous and superstitious practises , all the injury she had done her self had been to have avoyded that fearful schisme which she hath caused throughout the christian world. would there ever be the less peace and unity in a church , if a diversity were allowed as to practices supposed indifferent ? yea there would be so much more as there was a mutual forbearance and condiscension as to such things . the unity of the church is an unity of love and affection , and not a bare uniformity of practice or opinion . this latter is extreamly desireable in a church : but as long as there are several ranks and sizes of men in it , very hardly attainable , because of the different perswasions of mens minds as to the lawfulness of the things required ; and it is no commendation for a christian to have only the civility of procrustes , to commensurate all other men to the bed of his own humour and opinion . there is nothing the primitive church deserves greater imitation by us in , then in that admirable temper , moderation , and condescension which was used in it , towards all the members of it . it was never thought worth the while to make any standing laws for rites and customs that had no other original but tradition , much less to suspend men her his communion for not observing them . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as sozomen tells us . they judged it , and that very justly , a foolish and frivolous thing , for those that agree in the weighty matters of religion , to separate from one anothers communion for the sake of some petty customs and observations . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for churches agreeing in the same faith , often differ in their rites and customes . and that not only in different churches , but in different places belonging to the same church ; for , as he tells us , many cities and villages in egypt , not onely differed from the customes of the mother-church of alexandria , but from all other churches besides in their publick assemblies on the evenings of the sabbath , and receiving the eucharist after dinner . this admirable temper in the primitive church might be largely cleared from that liberty they allowed freely to dissenters from them in matters of practice and opinion : as might be cleared from cyprian , austine , ierome and others ; but that would exceed the bounds of a preface . the first who brake this order in the church , were the arrians , donatists and circumcellians , while the true church was still known by his pristine moderation and sweetness of deportment towards all its members . the same we hope may remain as the most infallible evidence of the conformity of our church of england to the primitive , not so much in using the same rites that were in use then , as in not imposing them , but leaving men to be won by the observing the true decency and order of churches , whereby those who act upon a true principle of christian ingenuity may be sooner drawn to a complyance in all lawfull things , then by force and rigorous impositions , which make men suspect the weight of the thing it self when such force is used to make it enter . in the mean time what cause have we to rejoyce , that almighty god hath been pleased to restore us a prince of that excellent prudence and moderation , who hath so lately given assurance to the world , of his great indulgence towards all that have any pretence from conscience to differ with their brethren ! the onely thing then seeming to retard our peace , is , the controversie about church-government , an unhappy controversie to us in england , if ever there were any in the world. and the more unhappy , in that our contentions about it have been so great , and yet so few of the multitudes engaged in it , that have truly understood the matter they have so eagerly contended about . for the state of the controversie , as it concerns us , lyes not here , as it is generally mistaken , what form of government comes the nearest to apostolical practice ; but , whether any one individual form be founded so upon divine right , that all ages and churches are bound unalterably to observe it ? the clearing up of which by an impartial inquiry into all the grounds produced for it , being of so great tendency to an accommodation of our present differences , was the only motive which induced me to observe aristotles wild politicks , of exposing this deformed conception to the entertainment of the wide world. and certainly they who have espoused the most the interest of a jus divinum , cannot yet but say , that if the opinion i maintain be true , it doth exceedingly conduce to a present settlement of the differences that are among us . for then all parties may retain their different opinions concerning the primitive form , and yet agree and pitch upon a form compounded of all together as the most suitable to the state and condition of the church of god among us : that so the peoples interest be secured by consent and suffrage , which is the pretence of the congregational way , the due power of presbyteries asserted by their joynt-concurrence with the bishop , as is laid down in that excellent model of the late incomparable primate of armagh : and the just honour and dignity of the bishop asserted , as a very laudable and ancient constitution for preserving the peace and unity of the church of god. so the learned is. casaubon describes the polity of the primitive church ; episcopi in singulis ecclesiis constituti cum suis prebyteriis , & propriam sibi quisque peculiari cura , & universam omnes in commune curantes , admirabilis cujusdam aristocra●iae speciem referebant . my main design throughout this whole ●reatise , is to shew that there can be no argument drawn from any pretence of a divine right , that may hinder men from consenting and yielding to such a form of government in the church , as may bear the greatest correspondency to the primitive church , and be most advantagiously conduceable to the peace , unity and settlement of our divided church . i plead not at all for any abuses or corruptions incident to the best form of government through the corruption of men and times . nay i dare not harbour so low apprehensions of persons enjoying so great dignity and honour in the church , that they will in any wise be unwilling of themselves to reduce the form of church government among us to its primitive state and order , by retrenching all exorbitances of power , and restoring those presbyteries which no law hath forbidden , but onely through disuse have been laid aside . whereby they will give to the world that rare example of self-denial and the highest christian prudence , as may raise an honourable opinion of them even among those , who have hitherto the most slighted so ancient and venerable an order in the church of god , and thereby become the repairers of those , otherwise irreparable , breaches in the church of god. i conclude with the words of a late learned , pious and moderate prelate in his via media ; i have done , and now i make no other account , but that it will fall out with me , as it doth commonly with him that offers to part a fray ; both parts will perhaps drive at me for wishing them no worse than peace . my ambition of the publike tranquillity shall willingly carry me through this hazzard : let both beat me , so their quarrel may cease : i shall rejoyce in those blows and scars which i shall take for the churches safety . the contents of the chapters . part . i. chap. i. things necessary for the churches peace , must be clearly revealed . the form of government not so , as appears by the remaining controversie about it . an evidence thence , that christ never intended any one form as the only means to peace in the church . the nature of a divine right discussed . right in general either makes things lawful , or else due . for the former , a non-prohibition sufficient ; the latter , an express command . duty supposeth legislation and promulgation . the question stated . nothing binds unalterably but by vertue of a standing law , and that two fold . the law of nature , and positive lawes of god. three wayes to know when positive lawes are unalterable . the divine right arising from scripture-examples , divine acts , and divine approbation , considered . p. . chap. ii. six hypotheses laid down as the basis of the following discourse . . the irreversible obligation of the law of nature , either by humane or divine positive lawes in things immediately flowing from it . . things agreeable to the law of nature may be lawfully practised in the church of god inlarged into five subservient propositions . . divine positive lawes con●erning the manner of the thing whose substance is determined by the law of nature , must be obeyed by vertue of the obligation of the natural law. . things , undetermined both by the natural and positive laws of god , may be lawfully determin'd by the supream authority in the church of god. the magistrates power in matters of religion , largely asserted and cleared . the nature of indifferency in actions stated . matters of christian liberty are subject to restraints , largely proved . proposals for accommodation as to matters of indifferency . . what is thus determined by lawful authority , doth bind the consciences of men subject to that authority ; to obedience to those determinations . . things thus determined by lawful authority , are not thereby made unalterable , but may be revoked , limited , and changed by the same authority . p. chap. iii. how far church government is founded upon the law of nature . two things in it founded thereon . . that there must be a society of men for the worship of god. . that this society be governed in the most convenient manner . a society for worship manifested . gen , . . considered . the sons of god and the sons of men who ? societies for worship among heathens evidenced by three things , . solemnity of sacrifices ; sacrificing how far natural . the antiquity of the feast of first-fruits largely discovered . . the original of festivals for the honour of their deities . . the s●crecy and solemnity of their mysteries . this further proved from mans sociable nature , the improvement of it by religion , the honour redounding to god by such a society for his worship . p. chap. iv. the second thing the law of nature dictates , that this society be maintained and governed in the most convenient manner . a further inquiry , what particular orders for government in the church come from the law of nature . six laid down , and evidenced to be from thence . first , a distinction of some persons , and their superiority over others , both in power and order , cleared to be from the law of nature . the power and application of the power distinguished ; this latter not from any law of nature binding , but permissive : therefore may be restrained . peoples right of chosing pastors considered . order distinguished from the form and manner of government : the former natural , the other not . the second is , that the persons imployed in the service of god , should have respect answerable to their imployment , which appears from their relation to god as his servants ; from the persons imployed in this work before positive laws . masters of families the first priests . the priesthood of the first-born before the law discussed : the arguments for it answered . the conjunction of civil and sacred authothority largely shewed , among egyptians , grecians , romans , and others . the ground of separation of them afterwards , from plutarch and others . p. chap. v. the third thing dictated by the law of nature is the solemnity of all things to be performed in this society , which lyes in the gravity of all rites and ceremonies , in the composed temper of mind . gods worship rational . his spirit destroyes not the use of reason . the enthusiastick spirit discovered . the circumstantiating of fit times and place for worship . the seventh day on what account so much spoken of by heathens . the romans holy ▪ dayes . cessation of labour upon them . the solemnity of ceremonies used . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , silence in devotions . exclusion of unfit persons . solemnity of discipline , excommunication among the iewes by the sound of a trumpet , among christians by a bell. p. chap. vi. the fourth thing dictated by the law of nature , that there must be a way to end controversies arising , which tend to break the peace of the society . the nature of schisme considered . the churches power as to opinions explained . when separation from a church may be lawful . not till communion becomes sin ; which is , when corruptions are required as conditions of communion . not lawful to erect new churches , upon supposition of corruption in a church . the ratio of a fundamental article explained ; it implyes both necessity and sufficiency in order to salvation . liberty of judgement and authority distinguished . the latter must be parted with in religious societies as to private persons . what way the light of nature directs to , for ending controversies . first in an equality of power , that the less number yield to the greater ; on what law of nature that is founded . secondly , in a subordination of power , that there must be a liberty of appeals . appeals defined . independency of particular congregations considered . elective synods . the case paralleld between civill and church-government . where appeals finally lodge . the power of calling synods , and confirming their acts , in the magistrate . p. . chap. vii . the fifth thing dictated by the law of nature ; that all that are admitted into this society , must consent to be governed by the lawes and rules of it . civil societies founded upon mutual consent ; express in their first entrance , implicite in others born under societies actually formed . consent as to a church necessary ; the manner of consent determined by christ , by baptism and profession . implicite consent supposed in all baptized ; explicite declared by challenging the priviledges , and observing the duties of the covenant . explicite by express owning the gospel when adult , very useful for recovering the credit of christia nity . the discipline of the primitive church cleared from origen ▪ iustin martyr , pliny , tertullian . the necessary re●●●●●●es of church membership , whether positive signs of grace ▪ nothing required by the gospel beyand reality of profession ▪ ex●●●●●t● co●●●●●● , how far necessary ▪ not the formal constitution of a church ▪ proved by sever●● arguments . p. . chap. viii . the last thing dictated by the law of nature , is , that every offender against the lawes of this society , is bound to give an account of his actions to the governours of it , and submit to the censures inflicted upon him by them . the original of penalties in societies . the nature of them , according to the nature and ends of societies . the penalty of the church no civil mulct ; because its lawes and ends are different from civil societies . the practice of the d●u●ds and c●rce●ae in e 〈…〉 n. among the iewes , whether a meer civil or sacr 〈…〉 y. the latter proved by six arguments . cherem col bo what ? objections answered . the original of the mistake shewed the first part concluded . p. part . ii. chap. i. the other ground of divine right considered ▪ viz. gods positive lawes , which imply a certain knowledge of gods intention to bind men perpetua●ly . as to which the arguments drawn from tradition , and the practice of the church in after ages , proved invalid by several ▪ arguments . in order to a right stating the question , some concessions laid down . first , that there must be some form of government in the church , is of divine right . the notion of a church explained , whether it belongs only to particular congregations ? which are manifested not to be of gods primary intention , but for our necessity . evidence for national churches under the gospel a national church-government necessary . p. chap. ii. the second concession is , that church government must be administred by officers of divine appointment . to that end , the continuance of a gospel ministry fully cleared from all those arguments ▪ by which positive laws are proved immutable . the reason of its appointment continues ; the dream of a ●aeculum spiritus sancti discussed ; first broached by the mendicant friers upon the rising of the waldenses , now embraced by enthusiasts . it s occasion and unreasonableness shewed ▪ gods declaring the perpetuity of a gospel ministry , matth. . . explained . a novel interpretation largely refuted . the world to come what ? a ministry necessary for the churches continuance , ephes. . explained and vindicated . p. chap. iii. the question fully stated . not what form of government comes the nearest to the primitive practice , but whether any be absolutely determined . several things propounded for resolving the question . what the form of church-government was under the law. how far christians are bound to observe that . neither the necessity of a superiour order of church-officers nor the unlawfulness can be proved from thence . p. chap. iv. whether christ hath determined the form of government by any positive laws . arguments of the necessity why christ must determine it , largely answered , as first , christs faithfulness compared with moses , answered and retorted ▪ and thence proved that christ did not institute any form of government in the church , because he gave no such law for it , as moses did . and we have nothing but general rules which are appliable to several forms of government . the office of timothy and titus , what it proves in order to this question ; the lawfulness of episcopacy shewed thence , but not the necessity . a particular form how far necessary , as christ was governour of his church ; the similitudes the church is set out by , prove not the thing in question . nor the difference between civil and church-government ; nor christ setting officers in his church , nor the inconvenience of the churches power in appointing new officers . every minister hath a power respecting the church in common , which the church may determine , and fix the bounds of episcopacy , thence proved lawful . the argument from the scriptures perfection answered . p. chap. v. whether any of christs actions have determined the form of government ? all power in christs hands for governing the church : what order christ took in order thereto when he was in the world. calling the apostles , the first action respecting outward government : three steps of the apostles calling , to be disciples ; in their first mission ; in their plenary commission . several things observed upon them pertinent to our purpose . the name and office of apostles cleared ; an equality among them proved during our saviours life . peter not made monarch of the church by christ. the pleas for it answered . the apostles power over the seventy disciples considered , with the nature and quality of their office , matth. . , . largely discussed and explained . it excludes all civil power ; but makes not all inequality in church-officers unlawful ▪ by the difference of apostles and pastors of churches , matth. . , , . fully inquired into . no evidence for any one form from thence ▪ because equally applyed to several . what the offences are , there spoken of ? what the church spoken to ? not an ecclesiastical sanhedrin among the iews , nor yet the civil sanhedrin , as erastus and his followers explain it : nor a consistorial or congregational church under the gospel ; but onely a select company for ending private differences among christians . p. chap. vi. the next and chief thing pleaded for determining the form of church-government , is apostolical practice ; two things inquired into concerning that ; what it was ? how far it binds ? the apostles invested with the power and authority of governing the whole church of christ by their commission ▪ iohn . . matth. . . what the apostles did in order to church-government before pentecost . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 explained . no division of provinces made among the apostles then ; made appear by several arguments . whether paul and peter were con●ined , one to the circumcision , the other to the uncircumcision , and different churches erected by them in the same cities ? what course the apostles took in setling the government of particular churches . largely proved that they observed the customs of the iewish synagogue . the model of the synagogue government described . whether peculiar ordination for the synagogue officers ? the service of the synagogue set forth , with the officers belonging to it . grounds proving that the apostles copied forth the the synagogue modell . community of names and customs between iews and christians then . forming churches out of synagogues : whether any distinct coetus of jewish and gentile christians in the same cities ? correspondency of the church with the synagogue , in the orders of publick service . in the custome of ordination . ierom explained . the power of ordination ▪ in whom it lodgeth in the christian church . the opinions of ierom and aerins considered . the name of presbyters and bishops explained . three general considerations touching apostolical practice . . that we cannot attain to such a certainty of apostolical practice , as thereon to ground a divine right . the uncertainty of apostolical practice as to us fully discovered , . from the equivalency of the names which should determine the controversie . . in that the places in controversie may without incongruity be understood of the different forms . . from the defectiveness , ambiguity , partiality and repugnancy of the records of antiquity , which should inform us what the apostolical practice was . these fully discoursed upon . the testimonies of eusebius , irenaeus , tertullian , hilary , ierom , and ignatius discussed ; and these two last proved not to contradict each other . episcopacy owned as a humane instituiion by the sense of the church . . consideration . that in all probability the apostles did not observe any one fixed course of settling church government ; but settled it according to the several circumstances of time , places , and persons . several things premised for clearing it . this opinion , though seemingly new , is proved at large to be most consonant to antiquity , by the several testimonies of clemens rom. alexandrinus , epiphanius ( whose testimony is corrected , explained , and vindicated ) hilary and divers others . this opinion of great consequence towards our ▪ present peace . no foundation for lay-elders , either in scripture or antiquity . . consideration ▪ meer apostoli●al practice , if supposed , founds not any divine right , proved by a fourfold argument . the right of tithes resolved upon the same principles with that of church government . rites and institutions apostolical grown quite out of use among the several contending parties . p. . chap. vii . the churches polity in the ages after the apostles considered . evidences thence that no certain unalterable form of church-government was delivered to them . . because church power did inlarge as the churches did . whether any metropolitan churches established by the apostles . seven churches of asia , whether metropolitical ; philippi no metropolis either in civil or ecclesiastical sense . several degrees of inlargement of churches . churches first the christians in whole cities , proved by several arguments ; the eulogiae an evidence of it . churches extended into the neighbour territories by the preaching there of city presbyters ; thence comes the subordination between them . churches by degrees inlarged to diocesses ; from thence to provinces . the original of metropolitans and patriarches . . no certain form used in all churches . some churches without bishops , scots , goths . some with but one bishop in their whole countrey scythian , aethiopian churches how governed . many cities without bishops . diocesses much altered . bishops discontinued in several churches for many years . . conforming ecclesiastical government to the civil in the extent of diocesses . the suburbicarian churches what . bishops answerable to the civil governours . churches power rises from the greatness of cities . . validity of ordination by presbyters in places where bishops were . the case of ischyras discussed ▪ instances given of ordination by presbyters not pronounced null . . the churches prudence in managing its affairs , by the several canons , provincial synods , codex canonum . p. chap. viii . an inquiry into the iudgement of reformed divines concerning the unalterable divine right of particular forms of church-government : wherein it is made appear , that the most emine nt divines of the reformation did never conceive any one form necessary ; manifested by three arguments . . from the judgment of those who make the form of church-government mutable , and to depend upon the wisdom of the magistrate and church . this cleared to have been the judgement of most divines of the church of england since the reformation . archbishop cranmers judgements with others of the reformation in edward the sixth , time , now first published from his authentick ms. the same ground of setling episcopacy ▪ in queen elizabeth's time . the judgement of archbishop whitgift , bishop bridges , dr. loe , mr. hooker , largely to that purpose , in king iames his time . the kings own opinion . dr. sut●●ffe . since of grakanthorp , mr. hales , mr. chillingworth . the testimony of forraign divines to the same purpose . chemnitius , zanchy . french divines , peter moulin , fregevil , blondel , bochartus , amyraldus . other learned men , grotius , lord bacon , &c. . those who look upon equality as the primitive form , yet judge episcopacy lawful . aug●stane confession , melanchthon , articuli smalcaldici . prince of anhalt , hyperius , hemingi●s : the practice of most forraign churches . calvin and beza both approving episcopacy and diocesan churches . salmatius , &c. : those who judge episcopacy to be the primitive form , yet look not on it as necessary . bishop iewel , fulk , field , bishop downam , bishop bancroft , bishop morton , bishop andrews , saravia , francis mason , and others . the conclusion hence laid in order to peace . principles conducing thereto . . prudence must be used in church-government , at last confessed by all parties . independents in elective synods , and church covenants , admission of members , number in congregations . presbyterians in classes and synods , lay-elders , &c. episcopal in diocesses , causes , rites , &c. . that prudence best , which comes nearest primitive practice . a presidency for life over an ecclesiastical senate shewed to be that form ; in order to it . presbyteries to be restored . diocesses lessened . provincial synods kept twice a year . the reasonableness and easiness of accommodation shewed . the whole concluded . p. . . a weapon-salve for the churches wounds : or , the divine right of particular forms of government in the church of god , discussed and examined , according to the principles of the law of nature , the positive laws of god , the practice of the apostles , and the primitive church : and the judgement of reformed divines . part i. chap. i. things necessary for the churches peace , must be clearly revealed . the form of church-government not so , as appears by the remaining controversie about it . an evidence thence , that christ never intended any one form , as the only means to peace in the church . the nature of a divine right discussed . right in general either makes things lawful , or else due . for the former , a non-prohibition sufficient ; the later , an express command . duty supposeth legislation and promulgation . the question stated . nothing binds unalterably but by virtue of a standing law , and that two-fold ; the law of nature and positive laws of god. three ways to know when positive laws are unalterable . the divine right arising from scripture-examples , divine acts , and divine approbation , considered . he that imposeth any matter of opinion upon the belief of others , without giving evidence of reason for it , proportionable to the confidence of his assertion , must either suppose the thing propounded , to carry such unquestionable credentials of truth and reason with it , that none who know what they mean can deny it entertainment ; or else that his own understanding hath attained to so great perfection , as to have authority sufficient to oblige all others to follow it . this latter cannot be presumed among any who have asserted the freedom of their own understandings , from the dictates of an infallible chair : but if any should forget themselves so far as to think so , there needs no other argument to prove them not to be infallible in their assertions , then this one assertion , that they are infallible ; it being an undoubted evidence that they are actually deceived ▪ who know so little the measure of their own understandings . the former can never be pretended in any thing which is a matter of controversie among men , who have not wholly forgot they are reasonable creatures , by their bringing probable arguments for the maintaining one part of an opinion as well as another . in which case , though the arguments brought be not convincing for the necessary entertaining either part to an unbiassed understanding , yet the difference of their opinions is argument sufficient , that the thing contended for is not so clear as both parties would make it to be on their own side ; and if it be not a thing of necessity to salvation , it gives men ground to think , that a final decision of the matter in controversie , was never intended as a necessary means for the peace and unity of the church of god. for we cannot with any shew of reason imagine , that our supreme law giver and saviour , who hath made it a necessary duty in all true members of his church , to endeavour after the peace and unity of it , should suspend the performance of that duty upon a matter of opinion , which when men have used their utmost endeavors to satisfie themselves about , they yet find , that those very grounds which they are most inclinable to build their judgements upon , are either wholly rejected by others , as wise and able as themselves ; or else , it may be , they erect a far different fabrick upon the very same foundations . it is no ways consistent with the wisdom of christ in founding his church , and providing for the peace and settlement of it , to leave it at the mercy of mens private judgments , and apprehensions of things , than which nothing more uncertain , and thereby make it to depend upon a condition never like to be attained in this world , which is the agreement and uniformity of mens opinions . for as long as mens faces differ , their judgements will. and until there be an intellectus averroisticus , the same understanding in all persons , we have little ground to hope for such an universal harmony in the intellectual world ; and yet even then the soul might pass a different judgement upon the colours of things , according to the different tincture of the several optick-glasses in particular bodies , which it takes a prospect of things through . reason and experience then give us little hopes of any peace in the church , if the unity of mens judgements be supposed the condition of it : the next inquiry then is , how the peace of the church shall be attained or preserved , when men are under such different perswasions ; especially if they respect the means , in order to a peace and settlement . for the ways to peace , like the fertile soils of greece , have been oft-times the occasion of the greatest quarrels . and no sickness is so dangerous as that when men are sick of their remedy , and nauseate that most which tends to their recovery . but while physitians quarrel about the method of cure , the patient languisheth under their hands ; and when men increase contentions in the behalf of peace , while they seem to court it , they destroy it . the only way left for the churches settlement and peace under such variety of apprehensions concerning the means and method , in order to it , is to pitch upon such a foundation , if possible to be found out , whereon the different parties retaining their private apprehensions , may yet be agreed to carry on the same work in common , in order to the peace and tranquillity of the church of god. which cannot be by leaving all absolutely to follow their own ways ; for that were to build a babel instead of salem , confusion instead of peace ; it must be then by convincing men , that neither of those ways to peace and order , which they contend about , is necessary by way of divine command , ( though some be as a means to an end ) but which particular way or form it must be , is wholly left to the prudence of those in whose power and trust it is to see the peace of the church be secured on lasting foundations . how neerly this concerns the present debate about the government of the church , any one may quickly discern . the main plea for forms of government in the church , is their necessity , in order to its peace and order , and yet nothing hath produced more disorder and confusion then our disputes about it have done . and our sad experience still tells us , that , after all our debates , and the evidences brought on either side , men yet continue under very different apprehensions concerning it . but if we more strictly enquire into the causes of the great distances and animosities which have risen upon this controversie , we shall find it hath not been so much the difference of judgements concerning the primitive form of government , which hath divided men so much from one another , as the prevalency of faction and interest in those whose revenues have come from the rents of the church , and among others of greater integrity it hath been the principle or hypothesis which men are apt to take for granted , without proving it ; viz. that it is in no case lawful to vary from that form , which by obscure and uncertain conjectures , they conceive to have been the primitive practice . for hereby men look upon themselves as obliged by an unalterable law , to endeavour the establishment of that idea of government , which oft-times affection and interest , more then reason and judgement , hath formed within them ; and so likewise bound to over throw any other form not suitable to those correspondencies which they are already engaged to maintain . if this then were the cause of the wounds and breaches this day among us , the most successful weapon-salve to heal them , will be , to anoint the sword which hath given the wound , by a seasonable inquiry into the nature and obligation of particular forms of government in the church . the main subject then of our present debate will be , whether any one particular form of church government be setled upon an unalterable divine right ; by virtue whereof all churches are bound perpetually to observe that individual form ? or , whether it be left to the prudence of every particular church to agree upon that form of government which it judgeth most conducible within its self to attain the end of government , the peace , order , tranquillity , and settlement of the church . if this latter be made fully appear , it is then evident that , however mens judgements may differ concerning the primitive form of government , there is yet a sure ground for men to proceed on in order to the churches peace . which one consideration will be motive sufficient to justifie an attempt of this nature , it being a design of so great importance , as the recovery of an advantagious piece of ground , whereon different parties may with safety not only treat , but agree in order to a speedy accommodation . we come therefore closely to the business in hand , and , for the better clearing of our passage , we shall first discuss the nature of a divine right , and shew whereon an unalterable divine right must be founded , and then proceed to shew how far any form of government in the church is setled upon such a right . right in the general is a relative thing , and the signification and import of it must be taken from the respect it bears to the law which gives it . for although in common acception it be often understood to be the same with the law its self , as it is the rule of actions ( in which sense ius naturae , gentium , civile , is taken for the several laws of nature , nations , and particular states ) yet i say ius , and so right , is properly something accruing to a person by virtue of that law which is made , and so jus naturae is that right which every man is invested in by the law of nature , which is properly jus personae , and is by some call'd jus activum , which is defined by grotius to be qualitas moralis personae competens ad aliquid juste habendum aut agendum ▪ by lessius to be potestas legitima ad rem aliquam obtinendam , &c. so that by these descriptions , right is that power which a man hath by law to do , have , or obtain any thing . but the most full description of it is given by martinius , that it is adhaerens personae necessitas vel potestas recta ad aliquid agendum , omittendum , aut permittendum , that whereby any person lies under a necessity of doing , omitting or suffering a thing to be , or else hath a lawful authority of doing , &c. for we are to consider that there is a two-fold right , either such whereby a man hath liberty and freedom by the law to do any thing ; or such whereby it becomes a mans necessary duty to do any thing . the opening of the difference of these two , and the different influences they have upon persons and things , is very useful to our present purpose : ius then is first that which is justum ; so isidore , ius dictum quia justum est . so what ever is just , men have right to do it : now a thing may be said to be just either more generally , as it signifies any thing which is lawful , or in a more restrained sense , when it implies something that is equal and due to another . so aristotle distributes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 into 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the former sense of it is here only pertinent , as it implies any thing which may be done according to law , that is , done jure , because a man hath right to do it . in order to this we are to observe , that an express positive command is not necessary to make a thing lawful , but a non-prohibition by a law is sufficient for that . for it being the nature of laws to bound up mens rights , what is not forbidden by the law is thereby supposed to be left in mens power still to do it . so that it is to little purpose for men to seek for positive commands for every particular action to make it lawful ; it sufficeth to make any action lawful , if there be no bar made by any direct or consequential prohibition ; unless it be in such things whose lawfulness and goodness depend upon a meer positive command . for in those things which are therefore only good , because commanded , a command is necessary to make them lawful , as in immediate positive acts of worship towards god ; in which nothing is lawful any further then it is founded upon a divine command . i speak not of circumstances belonging to the acts of worship , but whatever is looked upon as a part of divine worship , if it be not commanded by god himself , it is no ways acceptable to him , and therefore not lawful . so our saviour cites that out of the prophet ▪ in vain do they worship me , teaching for doctrines the commandments of men , which the chaldee paraphrast and syriack version render thus , reverentia quam mihi exhibent est ex praecepto & documento humano , plainly imputing the reason of gods rejecting their worship , to the want of a divine command for what they did . and therefore tertullian condemns all those things to be vacuae observationis & superstitioni deputanda , as superstitious , which are done sine ulli●s dominici a●t apostolici praecepti autoritate , without the warrant of divine command . although even here we may say too , that it is not meerly the want of a divine precept which makes any part of divine worship uncommanded by god unlawful , but the general prohibition , that nothing should be done in the immediate worship of god , but what we have a divine command for . however , in matters of meer dece●cy and order in the church of god , or in any other civil action of the lives of men , it is enough to make things lawful , if they are not forbidden . but against this , that a non-prohibition is warrant enough to make any thing lawful , this objection will be soon leavied , that it is an argument ab authoritate negativè , and therefore is of no force : to which i answer ▪ that the rule , if taken without limitation , upon which this objection is founded , is not true ; for although an argument ab authoritate negativè , as to matter of fact avails not , yet the negative , from authority , as to matter of law and command , is of great force and strength . i grant the argument holds not here ; we do not read that ever christ or his apostles did such a thing , therefore it is not to be done ; but this , we read of no law or precept commanding us to do it , therefore it is not unlawful not to do it ; and we read of no prohibition forbidding us to do it , therefore it may be lawfully done ; this holds true and good , and that upon this two-fold reason . first , from gods intention in making known his will ; which was not to record every particular fact done by himself , or christ , or his apostles , but it was to lay down those general and standing laws , whereby his church in all ages should be guided and ruled : and in order to a perpetual obligation upon the consciences , there must be a sufficient promulgation of those laws which must bind men . thus in the case of infant-baptism , it is a very weak unconcluding argument to say that infants must not be baptized , because we never read that christ or his apostles did it ; for this is a negative in matter of fact ; but on the other side , it is an evidence that infants are not to be excluded from baptism , because there is no divine law which doth prohibit their admission into the church by it ; for this is the negative of a law ; and if it had been christs intention to have excluded any from admission into the church , who were admitted before as insants were , there must have been some positive law whereby such an intention of christ should have been expressed ; for nothing can make that unlawful which was a duty before , but a direct and express prohibition from the legislator himself ▪ who alone hath power to re●cind as well as to make laws . and therefore antipaedobaptists must , instead of requiring a positive command for baptizing infants , themselves produce an express prohibition excluding them , or there can be no appearance of reason given , why the gospel should exclude any from those priviledges , which the law admitted them to . secondly , i argue from the intention and end of laws , which is to circumscribe and restrain the natural liberty of man , by binding him to the observation of some particular precepts . and therefore where there is not a particular command and prohibition , it is in nature and reason supposed that men are left to their natural freedom ; as is plain in positive humane laws ; wherein men by compact and agreement for their mutual good in societies , were willing to restrain themselves from those things which should prejudice the good of the community ; this being the ground of mens first inclosing their rights and common priviledges , it must be supposed , that what is not so inclosed , is left common to all as their just right and priviledge still . so it is in divine positive laws , god intending to bring some of mankind to happiness , by conditions of his own appointing , hath laid down many positive precepts , binding men to the practise of those things as duties which are commanded by him . but where we find no command for performance , we cannot look upon that as an immediate duty , because of the necessary relation between duty and law ; and so where we find no prohibition , there we can have no ground to think that men are debarred from the liberty of doing things not forbidden . for as we say of exceptions , as to general laws and rules , that an exception expressed firmat regulam in non exceptis , makes the rule stronger in things not expressed as excepted ; so it is as to divine prohibitions ; as to the positives , that those prohibitions we read in scripture make other things not-prohibited to be therefore lawful , because not expresly forbidden . as gods forbidding adam to taste of the fruit of one tree , did give him a liberty to taste of all the rest . indeed , had not god at all revealed his will and laws to us by his word , there might have been some plea why men should have waited for particular revelations to dictate the goodness or evil of particular actions , not determined by the law of nature ; but since god hath revealed his will , there can be no reason given why those things should not be lawful to do , which god hath not thought fit to forbid men the doing of . further we are to observe , that in these things which are thus undetermined in reference to an obligation to duty , but left to our natural liberty as things lawful , the contrary to that which is thus lawful , is not thereby made unlawful . but both parts are left in mens power to do , or not to do them ; as is evident in all those things which carry a general equity with them , and are therefore consonant to the law of nature , but have no particular obligation , as not flowing immediately from any dictate of the natural law. thus community of goods is lawful by the law and principles of nature ; yet every man hath a lawful right to his goods by dominion and propriety . and in a state of community it was the right of every man to impropriate upon a just equality , supposing a preceding compact and mutual agreement . whence it is that some of the school-men say , that although the law of nature be immutable , as to its precepts and prohibitions , yet not as to its demonstrations ( as they call them ; ) as , do as you would be done to , binds always indispensably ; but , that in a state of nature all things are common to all , this is true , but it binds not men to the necessary observance of it . these which they call demonstrations are only such things as are agreeable to nature , but not particularly commanded by any indispensable precept of it . thus likewise it is agreeable to nature , that the next of the kindred should be heir to him who dies intestate ; but he may lawfully wave his interest if he please . now to apply this to our present case ; according to this sense of jus for that which is lawful , those things may be said to be jure divino , which are not determined one way or other by any positive law of god , but are left wholly , as things lawful , to the prudence of men to determine them , in a way agreeable to natural light , and the general rules of the word of god. in which sense i assert any particular form of government agreed on by the governours of the church , consonant to the general rules of scripture , to be by divine right , i. e. god by his own laws hath given men a power and liberty to determine the particular form of church-government among them . and hence it may appear , that though one form of government be agreeable to the word , it doth not follow that another is not ; or , because one is lawful , another is unlawful : but one form may be more agreeable to some parts , places , people and times , then others are . in which case that form of government is to be setled which is most agreeable to the present state of a place , and is most advantagiously conducible to the promoting the ends of church-government in that place or nation . i conclude then according to this sense of jus , that the ratio regiminis ecclesiastici is juris divini naturalis , that is , that the reason of church-government is immutable , and holds in all times and places , which is the preservation of the peace and unity of the church ; but the modus regiminis ecclesiastici , the particular form of that government is juris divini permissivi , that both the laws of god and nature have left it to the prudence of particular churches to determine it . this may be cleared by a parallel instance . the reason and the science of physick is immutable , but the particular prescriptions of that science are much varied , according to the different tempers of patients . and the very same reason in physick which prescribes one sort of physick to one , doth prescribe a different sort to another , because the temper or disease of the one calls for a different method of cure ; yet the ground and end of both prescriptions was the very same , to recover the patient from his distemper . so i say in our present case ; the ground and reason of government in the church is unalterable by divine right ; yea , and that very reason which determines the particular forms : but yet , these particular forms flowing from that immutable reason , may be very different in themselves , and may alter according to the several circumstances of times , and places , and persons , for the more commodious advancing the main end of government . as in morality there can be but one thing to a man in genere summi boni , as the chief good , quò tendit & in quod dirigit aroum — to which he refers all other things ; yet there may be many things in genere boni conducentis , as means in order to attaining that end . so though church-government vary not as to the ground , end , and reason of it ; yet it may , as to the particular forms of it : as is further evident , as to forms of civil government : though the end of all be the same ; yet monarchy , aristocracy , and democracy , are in themselves lawful means for the attaining the same common end . and as alensis determines it , in the case of community of goods by the law of nature , that the same reason of the law of nature which did dictate community of goods to be most suitable to man in the state of innocency , did in his faln estate prescribe a propriety of goods , as most agreeable to it ; so that herein the modus observanti●● dissered , but the ratio praecepti was the same still ; which was mans comfortable enjoyment of the accommodations of life : which in innocency might have been best done by community ; but in mans degenerate condition , must be by a propriety . so the same reason of church-government may call for an equality in the persons , acting as governours of the church in one place , which may call for superiority and subordination in another . having now dispatched the first sense of a divine right , i come to the other , which is the main seat of the controversie , and therefore will require a longer debate . and so jus is that which makes a thing to become a duty : so jus quasi jussum , and jussa jura , as festus explains it , i. e. that whereby a thing is not only licitum , in mens lawful power to do it or no , but is made d●bitum , and is constituted a duty by the force and virtue of a divine command . now mans obligation to any thing as a duty , doth suppose on the part of him from whose authority he derives his obligation , both legislation and promulgation . first there must be a legislative power commanding it ; which if it respects only the outward actions of a man in a nation imbodied by laws , is the supreme magistrate ; but if the obligation respect the consciences of all men directly and immediately , then none have the power to settle any thing by way of an universal standing law , but god himself : who by being sole creator and governour of the world , hath alone absolute and independent dominion and authority over the souls of men . but besides legislation , another thing necessary to mans obligation to duty , is , a sufficient promulgation of the law made ; because though before this there be the ground of obedience on mans part to all gods commands , yet there must be a particular declaration of the laws , whereby man is bound in order to the determination of mans duty . which in positives is so absolutely necessary , that unless there be a sufficient promulgation and declaration of the will of the law-giver , mans ignorance is excusable in reference to them ; and so frees from guilt and the obligation to punishment . but it is otherwise in reference to the dictates of the natural law , wherein though man be at a loss for them , yet his own contracted pravity being the cause of his blindness , leaves him without excuse . hence it is said with good reason , that though man under the moral law , was bound to obey gospel-precepts , as to the reason and substance of the duties by them commanded , as faith , repentance from dead works , and new obedience ; yet a more full and particular revelation by the gospel was necessary , for the particular determination of the general acts of obedience , to particular objects under their several modifications expressed in the gospel . and therefore faith and repentance under the moral law , taken as a transcript of the law of nature , were required under their general notion as acts of obedience , but not in that particular relation which those acts have under the covenant of grace . which particular determination of the general acts to special objects under different respects , some call new precepts of the gospel , others new light ; but taking that light as it hath an influence upon the consciences of men , the difference is so small , that it deserves not to be named a controversie . but that which i am now clearing is this , that whatsoever binds christians as an universal standing law , must be clearly revealed as such , and laid down in scripture in such evident terms , as all who have their senses exercised therein , may discern it to have been the will of christ , that it should perpetually oblige all believers to the worlds end , as is clear in the case of baptism , and the lords supper . but here i shall add one thing by way of caution ; that there is not the same necessity for a particular and clear revelation in the alteration of a law unrepealed in some circumstances of it , as there is for the establishing of a new law. as to the former , viz. the change of a standing law as to some particular circumstance , a different practice by persons guided by an infallible spirit is sufficient ; which is the case as to the observation of the lords day under the gospel : for the fourth command standing in force as to the morality of it , a different practice by the apostles may be sufficient for the particular determination of the more ritual and occasional part of it , which was the limitation of the observation of it to that certain day . so likewise that other law standing in force , that persons taken into covenant with god should be admitted by some visible sign , apostolical practice , clearly manifested , may be sufficient ground to conclude what the mind of christ was , as to the application of it to particular persons ; and what qualifications are requisite in such as are capable of admission , as in the case of infants . whereby it is clear why there is no particular law or command in reference to them under the gospel , because it was only the application of a law in force already to particular persons , which might be gathered sufficiently from the apostles practice , the analogy of the dispensation , the equal reason of exclusion under the law , and yet notwithstanding the continual admission of them then into the same gospel-govenant ; circumcision being the seal of the righteousness of faith. but this by the way , to prevent mistakes . we must now by parity of reason say , that either the former law , in those things wherein it was not typical , must hold in reference to the form of . government in the church of christ ; or else that christ by an universal law hath setled all order in church government among the pastors themselves ; or else that he hath left it to the prudence of every particular church , to determine its own form of government , which i conceive is the direct state of the question about divine right , viz. whether the particular form of government in the church be setled by an universal binding law or no ? but for a further clearing the state of the question , we must consider what it is that makes an unalterable divine right , or a standing law in the church of god : for those who found forms of government upon a divine right , do not plead a law in express terms , but such things from whence a divine right by law may be inferred . which i now come to examine ; and that which i lay down as a postulatum , or a certain conclusion according to which i shall examine others ●ssertions concerning divine right , is , that nothing is founded upon a divine right , nor can bind christians directly or consequentially as a positive law , but what may be certainly known to have come from god , with an intention to oblige believers to the worlds end . for either we must say , it binds christians as a law when god did not intend it should ; or else gods intentions to bind all believers by it , must be clearly manifested . now then , so many ways and no more as a thing may be known to come from god with an intention to oblige all perpetually , a thing may be said to be of an unalterable divine right ; and those can be no more then these two ; either by the law of nature , or by some positive law of god : nothing else can bind universally and perpetually but one of these two , or by virtue of them , as shall be made appear . i begin with the law of nature . the law of nature binds indispensably , as it depends not upon any arbitrary constitutions , but is founded upon the intrinsecal nature of good and evil in the things themselves , antecedently to any positive declaration of gods will. so that till the nature of good and evil be changed , that law is unalterable as to its obligation . when , i say , the law of nature is indispensable , my meaning is , that in those things which immediately flow from that law by way of precept , as the three first commands of the moral law , no man can by any positive law be exempted from his obligation to do them ; neither by any abrogation of the laws themselves , nor by derogation from them , nor interpretation of them , nor change in the object , matter , or circumstance , whatsoever it be . now although the formal reason of mans obedience to the precepts of this law , be the conformity ▪ which the things commanded have to the divine nature and goodness , yet i conceive the efficient cause of mans obligation to these things , is to be fetched from the will , command , and pleasure of god : not as it is taken for an arbitrary positive will , but as it is executive of divine purposes , and as it ingraves such a law upon the hearts of men . for notwithstanding mans reason , considered in it self , be the chiefest instrument of discovery what are these necessary duties of humane nature ( in which sense aristotle defines a natural law to be that which 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , hath every where the same force and strength , i. e. as andronicus rhodius very well interprets it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , among all that have the free use of their reason and faculties ) yet i say , it is not bare reason which binds men to the doing of those things commanded in that law , but as it is expressive of an eternal law , and deduceth its obligation from thence . and so this law , if we respect the rise , extent , and immutability of it , may be call'd deservedly the law of nature ; but if we look at the emanation , efflux , and original of it , it is a divine law , and so it is call'd by molina , alphonsus à castr●● , and others . for the sanction of this law of nature , as well as others , depends upon the will of god , and therefore the obligation must come from him , it being in the power of no other to punish for the breach of a law , but those who had the legislative power to cause the obligation to it . it appears then from hence , that whatever by just consequence can be deduced from the preceptive law of nature , is of divine right , because from the very nature of that law ( it being indispensable ) it appears that god had an intent to oblige all persons in the world by it . the second way whereby we may know what is of divine right , is by gods positive laws ; for god being the supreme governour of the world , hath the legislative power in his hands , to bind to the performance of what duties be please , which carry no repugnancy in them to his divine nature and goodness . hence arise all those positive laws of god which we have in scripture ; for god's end in his written law was , that man should have a copy of all divine constitutions by him , that he might therein read what his duty was toward his maker . the precepts of the law of nature , are by the jews call'd ▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 absolutely , without any addition ; because they are of such things as do perpetually bind , which because they are known to all by natural light , they sometimes call them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 praecepta scientia ; and being that their righteousness is so evident and apparent , they call them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 verba rectitudinis : but the clearest difference between the precepts of the law of nature , and other positive commands , is that which the famous is. casaubon takes notice of out of the jewish doctors . observant doctissimi è rabbinis , inter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 han● esse differentiam , quod mitsvoth , sive pr●ceptorum ratio aperta est , ut , deum cole , honora patrem & matrem ; at chukim , statuta sive decreta earum rerum esse dicunt quarum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ratio soli deo sit nota , ut circumcisionis & similium . the reason of the laws of nature is evident , but of positive laws there is no reason to be given 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 non est alia praeter decretum regis , no other account to be given of them but the will of god. the laws of nature are by the lxx . often call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so used , rom. . . by iustin martyr , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . by iosephus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but gods positive laws are call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : thence we read of zachary and elizabeth , luke . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. walking in all the ordinances and commandments of god blameless , and those are call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by s. paul , ephes. . . the law of commandments in ordinances . now although this difference be not always observed in the words in scripture , yet there is a vast difference between the things themselves , though both equally commanded by god. that which is most to our present purpose to observe , is , that positives being mutable and alterable in themselves , a bare divine command is not sufficient to make them immutable , unless there be likewise expressed , that it is the will of god that they should always continue . this was that which the jews stumbled at so much , and do to this day ; because they are assured their law came once from god , therefore it must of necessity have a perpetual obligation : as may be seen in their two great doctors maimonides and abarbinel , who both of them make the eternity of the law one of the fundamental articles of their creed . but abarbinel splits this article into two ; whereof the first is , that the law of moses shall never be changed ; the other , that no other law shall come instead of it . the original of which grand errour is from want of observing the difference between things commanded by god , some of which are good , and therefore commanded ; others commanded , and therefore good . in which latter , if the reason of the command ceaseth , the command its self obligeth no longer . as the ceremonial law was to be their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is not meant in regard of the sharp severe nature of the law to drive them unto christ , as it is by many interpreted ; but the law is a paedagogue in regard of its tutorage and conduct , as it signified him whose office it was to conduct noblemens children to the school ( as a learned man observes . ) this being then the office of the law , when the church was now entred into christs school , the office of this paedagogue then ceased . and so the ceremonial law needed no abrogation at all ▪ exspiring of its self at christs coming , as laws made for the times of war do when peace comes . only because the jews were so hardly perswaded that it should exspire ( the believing jews conceiving at first the gospel came rather to help them to obey the law of moses then to cancel the obligation of it ) therefore it was necessary that a more honourable burial should be given to it , and the apostles should pro rostris declare more fully that believers were freed from that yoke of ceremonies , under which the neck of their fore-fathers had groaned so long . it appears then that a positive law coming from god doth not meerly by virtue of its being enacted by god , bind perpetually all persons , unless there be a declaration of gods will adjoyned , that it should do so . it will be here then well worth our inquiry to find out some 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or notes of difference whereby to know when positive laws bind immutably , when not ; i shall ●ay down these following . first , when the same reason of the command continues still , then we cannot conceive how that which was instituted upon such an account as remains still , should not have the same force now which it had at first . that positive law under which adam was in his state of innocency touching the forbidden fruit , did not bind any longer then his fall ; because the reason of the command ceased , which was the tryal of mans obedience : for which , god made choice of a very facile and easie command , according to that rule of politicians in minimis obedientiae periculum faciunt legislatores , of which they give this rational account , quia legislatoris ad obedientiam obligantis potius habenda est ratio , quàm rei de quâ lex est lata : thence arose that law of the ephori at sparta , barbam tondere , to which no other reason was annexed but this , obtemperare legibus , to learn them to obey the laws . this was gods aim in that easie command given to adam , to make thereon an experiment of mans willingness to obey his maker , and wherein man soon lost that obsequii gloria , as he in tacttus calls it , which , as pliny saith , is in to major quod quis minus velit . but had this law been a standing law for all mankind , it would have continued its obligation still ; but since , we see that it was only a personal , temporary , probative precept ; for no sooner was man fallen but its obligation ceased . so likewise those precepts of the judicial law which immediately respected the commonwealth of the jews as such , their obligation reacheth not to christians at all , nor ( as it is generally conceived ) to the jews themselves , when out of the consines of their own countrey , because the reason of those laws doth neither descend to christians , nor did travel abroad with the jews . but those judicial laws which are founded upon common equity to bind still , not by virtue of that sanction , but by virtue of common principles of equity , which certainly in the present shortness of humane reason cannot be fetched from a clearer fountain then those laws which once came from the fountain of goodness : none of whose constitutions can any ways be supposed to deviate from the exactest rules of justice and equity . and upon this very ground too , some part of the fourth commandment is abrogated , and the other continues to bind still ; for the reason of the ceremonial and occasional part is ceased , and the reason of what was moral , continues . therefore the school-men say right of the sabbath day , cultus est à naturâ , modus à lege , virtu● à gratiâ . nature dictates that god should be worshipped , the law informs what day and time to spend in his worship , grace must enable us to perform that worship on that day in a right manner . and because the same reason for gods worship continue● still , therefore it is a precept of the natural law , that god should be worshipped . what time precisely must be spent in gods worship ( as one day in seven ) though the reason be evident to nature of it when it is made known ; yet it is hard to conceive that nature could have found out the precise determination of the time . although i must confess the general consent of nations , as to the seventh part , ( if it were fully cleared ) would speak fair to be the voice of nature , or at least a tradition received from the sons of noah , which , if so , will be an evidence of the observation of the sabbath before the children of israels being in the wilderness . but granting that the seventh part of time was a positive law of god , yet i say it binds immutably , because there is as strong a reason for it now as ever , and ratio immutabilis praecepti , facit praeceptum immutabile . this i take to be the sense of those who distinguish between morale positivum , and morale naturale , i. e. that some things are so moral , that even nature its self can discover them , as that god should be worshipped . other things are so moral , that though the reason of them be founded in nature , yet there wants divine revelation to discover them to us ; but when once discovered , are discerned to be very agreeable to common principles of reason : and these when thus discovered , are as immutably obligatory as the other , because the reason of them is immutable . and of this nature , is the determination of the particular time for gods worship , and limitation of it to one day in seven . but what was in that precept meerly occasional , as the first and original ground of its limitation to the seventh in order , gods resting on that day from the work of creation , and the further ground of its inforcement to the jews , viz. their deliverance out of egypt ; these being not immut●ble , but temporary and occasional , may upon as great ground given , and approved of god for that end ( as is evident by the apostles practice ) be sufficient reason of the alteration of the seventh day to the first day of the week . by this may briefly be seen how irrationally those speak , who say we have no further ground for our observation of the lords day now , then for other arbitrary festivals in the church , viz. the tradition of the church of god. i grant , the tradition of the church doth acquaint us with apostolical practice , but the ground of our observation of the lords day , is not the churches tradition , but that apostolical practice conveyed by universal tradition ( which setting aside the festivals observed upon the lords days , can very hardly be ●ound for any other . ) but supposing universal tradition for other festivals ; i say , here tradition is not only used as a testimony and instrument of conveyance , as in the other case of the lords day ; but is it self the only argument , and the very ground of the original observation : between which two , what a wide difference there is , let any rational man judge . but for a further clearing this observation , we must consider , that the reason of the command , which we say is the measure of its obligation , must not be fetched from mens uncertain conjectures ( among whom dreams often pass for reasons ) but it must be either expressed in the law its self , or deducible by apparent and easie collection from it ; as is plain in the decrees of the apostles about things strangled , and offered to idols , where the reason of the command is plainly implied , to wit , for present compliance with the jews ; and therefore no sooner did the reason of the command cease , but the obligation of it ceased too : but of this more afterwards . this is one way then to discern the difference between positive laws , as to the obligation of them , by the ground and reason of the command . and therefore it is well observed by divines ( which further confirms what i now prove ) that no command doth bind against the reason of the command ; because it is not the words , but the sense and reason of a command which hath the greatest obligatory force . therefore tully tells us , that the ratio juris & legislatoris consilium , is the best interpreter of any law ; who excellently and largely proves , that the reason of the law is the law , and not the words . so much for the first rule . secondly , another way to know when positive laws are immutable , is , when gods will is expresly declared that such laws shall bind immutably . for it being granted on all hands , that god may bind us to those things which are left indifferent by the law of nature , and likewise for what term he please ; the only inquiry left , is to see in his word whether he hath so bound us or no ; and , if he hath , whether he hath left it in mans power to revoke his laws . for as to positive laws expresly laid down in scripture , the ground of which is only as the jews speak 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the will of the king , i. e. gods own pleasure , without any reason or occasion of it else expressed , or necessarily implied ; these do bind immutably , unless the same power which commanded them , doth again revoke them . for we cannot in any wise conceive that the wise god should after the declaring his own will , leave it in the power of any corrupt fallible ▪ being to determine , or dispence with the obligation of his own laws . which to do , and instead of them to enforce others immediately upon the consciences of men , as standing laws , is an attempt beyond that of the gyants against heaven ( or the men at babel ▪ ) that being only an affectation of reaching heaven , but this an actual usurpation of gods supreme and legislative power and authority . but though man hath nor , god alwayes reserves to himself a power to relax , interpret , and dispence with his own positive laws , which imply no repugnancy to his own nature . and this power is alwayes to be understood in all laws to be reserved to god , where he hath not himself declared that he will not use it ▪ which is done either by the annexing an oath on a promise , which the apostle calls the two immutable things in which it is impossible for god to lie . for though god be free to promise , yet when he hath promised , his own nature and faithfulness binds him to performance ; in which sense i understand those who say , god in making promises is bound only to himself , and not to men ; that is , that the ground of performance ariseth from gods faithfulness . for else if we respect the right coming by the promise , that must immediately respect the person to whom it is made , and in respect of which we commonly say that the promiser is bound to performance . but the case is otherwise in penal laws , which though● never so strict ; do imply a power of relaxation in the legislator : because penall laws do only constitute the debstum poenae ▪ and bind the sinner over to punishment , but do not bind the legislator to an actual execution upon the debt . which is the ground that the person of a mediator was admittable in the place of faln man , because it was a penal law , and therefore relaxable . but because the debt of punishment is immediately contracted upon the breach of the law , therefore satisfaction was necessary to god as law-giver , either by the person himself , or another for him ; because it was not consistent with the holiness of gods nature and his wisdom as governor , to relax an established law , without valuable consideration ▪ now for the third kind of gods laws , besides promissory and penall , viz such as are meerly positive respecting duties , which become such by vertue of an express command : these , though they be revocable in themselves , yet being revocable only by god himself , and his own power , since he hath already in his word fully revealed his will , unlesse therein he hath declared when their obligation shall cease , they continue irreversible . this is the case as to the sacraments of the new testament , which being commands meerly positive , yet christ commanding christians as christians to observe them , and not as christians of the first and second ages of the church , his mind can be no otherwise interpreted concerning them , then that he did intend immutably to bind all christians to the observance of them . for al though the socinians say , that baptism was only a rite instituted by christ for the passing men from judaism and gentilism to christianity , yet we are not bound to look upon all as reason that comes from those who professe themselves the admirers of it . for christs command nowhere implying such a limitation ; and an outward visible profession of christianity being a duty now , and the covenant entred into by that rite of initiation , as obligatory as ever , we have no reason to think that christs command doth not reach us now , especially the promise being made to as many as god shall call , and consequently the same duty required which was then in order to the obtaining of the same ends . a third way to discern the immutability of positive laws , is , when the things commanded in particular are necessary to the being , succession , and continuance of such a society of men professing the gospel , as is instituted and approved by christ himself . for christ must be supposed to have the power himself to order what society he please , and appoint what orders he please to be observed by them ; what rites and ceremonies to be used in admission of members into his church , in their continuing in it ; in the way , means , manner of ejection out of it ; in the preserving the succession of his church , and the administration of ordinances of his appointment . these being thus necessary for the maintaining and upholding this society , they are thereby of a nature as unalterable , as the duty of observing what christ hath commanded is . how much these things concern the resolution of the question proposed , will appear afterwards . thus we have gained a resolution of the second thing , whereon an unalterable divine right is founded ; viz , either upon the dictates of the law of nature , concurring with the rules of the written word ; or upon express positive laws of god , whose reason is immutable , or which god hath declared shall continue , as necessary to the being of the church . the next thing is to examine the other pretences which are brought for a divine right ; which are either scripture ▪ examples , or divine acts , or divine approbation . for scripture-examples : first ; i take it for granted on all hands , that all scripture examples do not bind us to follow them ; such are the mediatory acts of christ , the heroical acts of extraordinary persons , all accidentall and occasionall actions . example doth not bind us as an example ; for then all examples are to be followed , and so we shall of necessity go , quà itur , non quà eundum , walk by the most examples , and not by rule . there is then no obligatory force in example it self . secondly , there must be then some rule fixed to know when examples bind , and when not ; for otherwise there can be no discrimination put between examples which we are to follow , and which to avoid . this rule must be either immediately obligatory , making it a duty to follow such examples , or else directive , declaring what examples are to be ●ollowed : and yet even this latter doth imply , as well as the former , that the following these examples thus declared , is become a duty . there can be no duty without a law making it to be a duty , and consequently , it is the law making it to be a duty to follow such example , which gives a divine right to those examples , and not barely the examples themselves . we are bound to follow christs example , not barely because he did such and such things , ( for many things he did we are not bound to follow him in ) but because he himself hath by a command made it our duty to follow him in his humility , patience , self-denyal , &c. and in whatever things are set out in scripture for our imitation . when men speak then with so much confidence , that scripture-examples do bind us unalterably , they either mean that the example it self makes it a duty , which i have shewn already to be absurd ; or else that the morall nature of the action done in that example , or else the law making it our duty to follow the example , though in its self it be of no morall nature . if the former of these two , then it is the morality of the action binds us , without its being incarnate in the example : for the example in actions not morall , binds not at all , and therefore the example binds only by vertue of the morality of it ; and consequently , it is the morality of the action which binds , and not the example . if the latter , the rule making it our duty , then it it is more apparent that it is not the example which binds necessarily , but that rule which makes it a duty to follow it ; for examples in indifferent things do not bind without a law making it to be a duty : and so it evidently appears , that all obligatory force is taken off from the examples themselves , and resolved into one of the two former , the morall nature of the action , or a positive law. and therefore those who plead the obligatory nature of scripture-examples , must either produce the morall nature of these examples , or else a rule binding us to follow those examples . especially , when these examples are brought to found a new positive law , obliging all christians necessarily to the end of the world . concerning the binding nature of apostolicall practice , i shall discourse largely afterwards . the next thing pleaded for a divine right , is by divine acts. as to this ▪ ●t is again evident that all divine acts do not constitute such a right ; therefore there must be something expressed in those acts when such a divine right follows them ; whence we may infallibly gather , it was gods intention they should perpetually oblige : as is plain in the cases instanced in the most for this purpose ; as gods resting on the seventh day making the sabbath perpetual : for it was not gods resting that made it the sabbath , for that is only expressed as the occasion of its institution ; but it was gods sanctifying the day , that is , by a law setting it apart for his own service , which made it a duty . and so christs resurrection was not it which made the lords day a sabbath of divine right ; but christs resurrection was the occasion of the apostles altering only a circumstantiall part of a morall duty already ; which being done upon so great reasons , and by persons indued with an insallible spirit , thereby it becomes our duty to observe that morall command in this limitation of time . but here it is further necessary to distinguish between acts meerly positive , and acts donative or legall . the former con●er no right at all , but the latter do ; not barely as acts , but as legall acts , that is , by some declaration that those acts do conserr right . and so it is in all donations , and therefore in law the bare delivery of a thing to another doth not give a legall title to it , without express transferring of dominion and propriety with it . thus in christs delivering the keys to peter and therest of the apostles , by that act i grant the apostles had the power of the keyes by divine right ; but then it was not any bare act of christ which did it , but it was only the declaration of christs will conferring that authority upon them . again , we must distinguish between a right confer●'d by a donative act , and the unalterable nature of that right ; for it is plain there may be a right personall as well as successive , derivative , and perpetuall . and therefore it is not enough to prove that a right was given by any act of christ , unless it be made appear it was christs intention that right should be perpetuall if it oblige still . for otherwise the extent of the apostolical commission the power of working miracles , as well as the power of the keyes ( whether by it we mean a power declarative of duty , or a power authoritative and penall ) must continue still , if a difference be not made between these two ; and some rule sound out to know when the right conferr'd by divine acts is personall , when successive . which rule thus found out , must make the right unalterable , and so concerning us , and not the bare donative act of christ ▪ for it is evident , they were all equally conferr'd upon the apostles by an act of christ : and if some continue still , and others do not , then the bare act of christ doth not make an unalterable divine right . and so though it be proved that the apostles had superiority of order and jurisdiction over the pastors of the church by an act of christ ; yet it must further be proved , that it was christs intention that superiority should continue in their successors , or it makes nothing to the purpose . but this argument i confess , i see not how those who make a necessary divine right to follow upon the acts of christ , can possibly avoid the force of . the last thing pleaded for divine right , is divine approbation ; but this least of all constitutes a divine right : for if the actions be extraordinary , gods approbation of them as such , cannot make them an ordinary duty . in all other actions which are good , and therefore only commendable , they must be so , either because done in conformity to gods revealed will , or to the nature of things good in themselves . in the one , it is the positive law of god , in the other the law of nature , which made the action good , and so approved by god , and on that account we are bound to do it . for god will certainly approve of nothing but what is done according to his will revealed , or natural ; which will and law of his , is that which makes any thing to be of divine right , i. e. perpetually binding , as to the observation of it . but for acts of meerly positive nature , which we read gods approbation of in scripture , by vertue of which approbation those actions do oblige us ; in this case , i say , it is not gods meer approbation that makes the obligation , but as that approbation , so recorded in scripture , is a sufficient testimony and declaration of gods intention to oblige men : and so it comes to be a positive law , which is nothing else but a sufficient declaration of the legislators will and intention , to bind in particular actions and cases . thus now we have cleared whereon a necessary and unalterable divine right must be founded ; either upon the law of nature , or some positive law of god , sufficiently declared to be perpetually binding . chap. ii. six hypotheses laid down , as the basis of the following discourse . . the irreversible obligation of the law of nature , either by humane , or divine positive laws , in things immediately flowing from it . . things agreeable to the law of nature may be lawfully practised in the church of god , where there is no prohibition by positive laws ; inlarged into subservient propositions . . divine positive laws , concerning the manner of the thing whose substance is determined by the law of nature , must be obeyed by vertue of the obligation of the natural law. . things undetermined , both by the naturall and positive laws of god , may be lawfully determined by the supream authority in the church of god. . what is th●● determined by lawfull authority , doth bind the consciences of men ▪ subject to that authority . to obedience to those determinations . . things thus determined by lawfull authority , are not thereby made unalterable , but may be revoked , limited , and changed by the same authority . having shewed what a divine right is , and whereon it is founded ; our next great inquiry will be , how far church-government is founded upon divine right , taken either of these two wayes . but for our more distinct , clear , and rationa●● proceeding , i shall lay down some things , as so many postulata or generall principles and hypotheses , which will be as the basis and foundation of the following discourse ; which all of them concern the obligation of laws , wherein i shall proceed gradually , beginning with the law of nature , and so to divine positive laws ; and lastly , to speak to humane positive laws . the first principle or hypothesis which i lay down , is , that where the law of nature doth determine any thing by way of duty , as flowing from the principles of it , there no positive law can be supposed to take off the obligation of it . which i prove , both as to humane positive laws and divine : first as to humane . for first , the things commanded in the law of nature , being just and righteous in themselves , there can be no obligatory law made against such things . nemo tenetur ad impossibile , is true in the sense of the civil law , as well as in philosophy ; as impossibile is taken for turpe , and turpe for that which is contrary to the dictates of nature . a man may be as well bound not to be a man , as not to act according to principles of reason ▪ for the law of nature is nothing else but the dictate of right reason , discovering the good or evil of particular actions , from their conformity or repugnancy to natural light . whatever positive law is then made directly infringing and violating natural principles , is thereby of no force at all . and that which hath no obligation in it self , cannot dissolve a former obligation . secondly , the indispensablenesse of the obligation of the law of nature , appears from the end of all other laws , which are agreed upon by mutual compact , which is , the better to preserve men in their rights and priviledges . now the greatest rights of men , are such as flow from nature its self , and therefore , as no law binds against the reason of it , so neither can it against the common end of laws . therefore , if a humane positive law should be made , that god should not be worshipped , it cannot bind , being against the main end of laws , which is to make men live together as reasonable creature● , which they cannot do , without doing what nature requires , which is , to serve god who made it . again , it overturns the very foundation of all government , and dissolves the tye to all humane laws , if the law of nature doth not bind indispensably : for otherwise , upon what ground must men yield obedience to any laws that are made ? is it not by vertue of this law of nature , that men must stand to all compacts and agreements made ? if laws take their force among men from hence , they can bind no further then those comp●cts did extend ; which cannot be supposed to be , to violate and destroy their own natures . positive laws may restrain much of what is only of the permissive law of nature ( for the intent of positive laws , was to make men abate so much of their naturall freedom , as should be judged necessary for the preservation of humane societies ) but against the obligatory law of nature , as to its precepts , no after-law can derogate from the obligation of it . and therefore it is otherwise between the law of nature and positive laws , then between laws meerly civil : for as to these the rule is , that posterior derogat priori , the latter law cassats and nulls the obligation of the former ; but as to natural laws and positive , prior derogat posteriori , the law o● nature , which is first● , takes away the obligation of a positive law , if it be contrary to it . as iustellus observe it was in the primitive church , — in reference to the obligation of the canons of the councils , that such as were inserted in the codex canonum , being of the more ancient councils , did render the obligation of later canons invalid , which were contrary to them , unlesse it were in m●tte●s of small moment . we see then , that supposing the law of nature doth not continue obligatory , the obligation of all humane positive laws will fall with it , ( as the superstructure needs must when the foundation is removed ) for if any other law of nature may be dissolved , why not that whereby men are bound to stand to covenants and contracts made ? and if that be dissolved , how can the obligation to humane laws remain , which is founded upon that basis ? and so all civil societies are thereby overturned . thirdly , it appears from the nature of that obligation which follows the law of nature , so that thereby no humane law can bind against this ; for humane laws bind only outward humane act●ons directly , and internall acts only by vertue of their necessary connexion with , and influence upon outward actions , and not otherwise ; but the law of n●ture immediately binds the soul and conscience of man : and therefore obligatio naturalis , and nexus conscientiae , are made to be the same by lessius , suar●z , and others . for lessius d●sputing , whether a will made without solemnity of law , doth bind in conscience or no ? he proves it do●h by ●his argument , from the opinion of the lawyers , that without those solemnities there doth arise from it a natural obligation , and the hresae ab intestato , who is the next of kin , is bound to make it good ; therefore it doth bind in conscience . so then there ariseth a necessary obllgation upon conscience , from the dict●tes of the law of nature , which cannot be removed by any positive law. for although there lye no action in the civil law against the breach of a meerly natural law , as in the former case of succession to a will not legally made ; in covenants made without conditions expressed , in recovery of debt● from a person to whom money was lent in his pupillage without consent of his tutor ; in these cases though no action lie against the persons , yet this proves not that these have no obligation upon a man , but only that he is not responsible for the breach of morall honesty in them before civil courts . in which sense those lawyers are to be understood , which deny the obligation of the law of nature . but however conscience binds the offender over to answer at a higher tribunal , before which all such offences shall be punished . thus then we see no positive humane law can dispence with , or dissolve the obligation of th● law of nature . much lesse ; secondly , can we suppose any positive divine law should . for although gods power be immense and infinite to do what pleaseth him , yet we must always suppose this power to be conjoyned with goodnesse , else it is no divine power : and therefore posse malum , non est posse , it is no power , but weakness to do evil ; and without this posse malum , there can be no alteration made in the nature of good and evil ; which must be supposed , if the obligation of the natural law be dispensed with . therefore it was well said by origen , when c●lsus objected it as the common speech of the christians , that with god all things are possible , that he neither understood how it was spoken , nor what these all-things are , nor how god could do them : and concludes with this excellent speech , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we say , saith he , that god can do all things , which are reconcilable with his deity , goodnesse , and wisdom . and after adds , that as it is impossible for honey to make things bitter , and light to make things obscure , so it is for god to do any thing that is unjust . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for the power of doing evil is directly contrary to the divine nature , and that omnipotency which is consistent with it . to the same purpose he speaks elswhere , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , god wills nothing unbecoming himself : and again , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . we affirm that god cannot do evil actions : for if he could , he might as well be no god. for if god should do evil , he would be no god. so then though god be omnipotent , yet it follows not that he can therefore dissolve the obligation of the preceptive law of nature , or change the natures of good and evil . god may indeed alter the properties of those things from whence the respects of good and evil do result , as in abrahams offering isaac , the israelites taking away the aegyptians jewels ; which god may justly do by vertue of his absolute dominion ; but the change here , is not in the obligation of the law , but in the things themselves . murther would be an intrinsecal evil still ; but that which was done by immediate and explicit command from god , would have been no murther . theft had been a sin still , but taking things aliena●ed from their properties by god himself , was not theft . we conclude then , what comes immediately from the law of nature by way of command binds immutably and indispensably . which is the first hypothesis or principle laid down . the second hypothesis is , that things which are either deducible from the law of nature , or by the light of nature discovered to be very agreeable to it , may be lawfully practised in the church of god , if they be not otherwise determined by the positive laws of god , or of lawfull humane authority . we shall first inquire into the nature of these things , and then shew the lawfulnesse of doing them . for the nature of these things : we must consider what things may be said to be of the law of nature . they may be reduced to two heads , which must be accurately distinguished . they are either such thing● which nature dictates to be done , or not to be done necessarily and immutably ; or else such things as are judged to be very agreeable to natural light , but are subject to positive determinations . the former are called by some jus naturae obligativum ; by others jus naturae proprium , whereby things are made necessarily duties or sins ; the latter jus naturae permissivum , and reductivum , for which it is sufficient if there be no repugnancy to natural light . from these two arise a different obligation upon men ; either strict , and is called by covarr●vias , obligatio ex ▪ justitiâ , an obligation of duty and justice ; the other larger , obligatio ex communi aequitate , or ex honestate morali ; an obligation from common equity , that is , according to the agreeablenesse of things to natural light , the former i have shewn already to bind indispensably , but these latter are subject to positive laws . for our better understanding the obligation of these ( which is more intricate then the former ) we shall consider men under a double notion , either in a state of absolute liberty , which some call a state of nature ; or else in a state wherein they have restrained their own liberty by mutual compacts , or are determined by a higher law. these things premised , i lay down these propositions . . in a state of absolute liberty , before any positive laws were superadded to the naturall , whatsoever was not necessarily determined by the obligatory law of nature , was wholly left to mens power to do it or not , and belongs to the permissive law of nature . and thus all those things which are since determined by positive laws , were in such a supposed state , left to the free choyce of a mans own will. thus it was in mens power to joyn in civil society with whom they pleased , to recover things , or vindicate injuries in what way they judged best , to submit to what constitutions alone they would themselves , to choose what form of government among them they pleased , to determine how far they would be bound to any authority chosen by themselves , to lodge the legislative and coercive power in what persons they thought fit , to agree upon punishments answerable to the nature of offences . and so in all other things not repugnant to the common light of reason , and the dictates of the preceptive part of the law of nature . . a state of absolute liberty , not agreeing to the nature of man considered in relation to others ; it was in mens power to restrain their own liberty upon compacts so far as should be judged necessary for the ends of their mutuall society . a state of nature i look upon only as an imaginary state , for better understanding the nature and obligation of laws . for it is confessed by the greatest assertors of it , that the relation of parents and children cannot be conceived in a state of natural liberty , because children assoon as born are actually under the power and authority of their parents . but for our clearer apprehending the matter in hand , we shall proceed with it . supposing then all those former rights were in their own power , it is most agreeable to natural reason , that every man may part with his right so far as he please for his own advantage . here now , men finding a necessity to part with some of their rights , to defend and secure their most considerable ones , they begin to think of compacts one with another ( taking this as a principle of the natural law , and the foundation of society , that all covenants are to be performed : ) when they are thus far agreed , they then consider the terms upon which they should enter into society one with another . and here men devest themselves of their original liberty , and agree upon an inclosure of properties , and the fences of those properties ; i mean , upon living together in a civil state , and of the laws they must be ruled by . this is apparently agreeable to natural reason , the things being in their own power , which they agree to part with . men entring upon societies by mutual compacts , things thereby become good and evil , which were not so before . thus he who was free before to do what and how he pleased , is now bound to obey what laws he hath consented to ; or else he breaks not only a positive law , but that law of nature , which commands man to stand to covenants once made , though he be free to make them . and therefore it is observable , that the doing of things that were lawful before covenants made , and things thereby determined , may be so far from being lawful after , that the doing of them may contradict a principle of the obligatory law of nature . thus in a state of liberty , every one had right to what he thought fit for his use ; but propriety and dominion being introduced , which was a free voluntary act , by mens determining rights , it now becomes an offence against the law of nature , to take away that which is another mans . in which sense alone it is , that theft is said to be forbidden by the law of nature . and by the same reason , he that resists and opposeth the lawful authority , under which he is born , doth not only offend against the municipal laws of the place wherein he lives , but against that original and fundamental law of societies , viz standing to covenants once made . for it is a gross mistake , as well as dangerous , for men to imagine , that every man is born in a state of absolute liberty , to chuse what laws and governours he please ▪ but every one being now born a subject to that authority he lives under , he is bound to preserve it as much as in him lies : thence augustus had some reason to say , he was the best citizen , qui praesentem reipublicae statum mutari ●●● vult , that doth not disturb the present state of the commonwealth ; and who , as alcibiades saith in thucydides , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 endeavours to preserve that form of government he was born under . and the reason of it is , that in contracts and covenants made for government , men look not only at themselves , but at the benefit of posterity ; if then one party be bound to maintain the rights of the others posterity , as well as of his person , the other party must be supposed to oblige his posterity in his covenant to perform obedience ; which every man hath power to do , because children are at their parents disposal ; and equity requires , that the covenant entred should be of equal extent to both parties : and if a man doth expect protection for his posterity , he must engage for the obedience of his posterity too , to the governor● who do legally protect them . but the further prosecution of these things belongs to another place to consider of ; my purpose being to treat of government in the church , and not in the state. the sum of this is , that the obligation to the performance of what things are determined ( which are of the permissive law of nature ) by positive laws , doth arise from the obligatory law of nature . as the demonstration of the particular problemes in the mathematicks , doth depend upon the principles of the theoremes themselves ; and so whoever denies the truth of the probleme , deduced by just consequence from the theoreme , must consequentially deny the truth of the theoreme its self : so those who violate the particular determinations of the permissive law of nature , do violate the obligation of the preceptive part of that law : obedience to the other being grounded on the principles of this . . god hath power by his positive laws to take in and determine as much of the permissive law of nature as he please , which being once so determined by an universal law , is so far from being lawful to be done , that the doing of them by those under an obligation to his positive laws , is an offence against the immutable law of nature . that god may restrain mans natural liberty , i suppose none who own gods legislative power over the world can deny : especially considering that men have power to restrain themselves ; much more then hath god , who is the rector and governor of the world. that a breach of his positive laws is an offence against the common law of nature , appears hence ; because man being gods creature , is not only bound to do what is in general suitable to the principles of reason in flying evil , and choosing good ; but to submit to the determinations of gods will , as to the distinction of good from evil . for being bound universally to obey god , it is implyed that man should obey him in all things which he discovers to be his will : whose determination must make a thing not only good , but necessary to be done , by vertue of his supreme authority over men . this then needs no further proof , being so clear in its self . . lastly , what things are left undetermined by divine positive laws , are in the churches power to use , and practise according as it judgeth them most agreeable to the rule of the word . that things undetermin'd by the word are still lawfull , evidently appears : because what was once lawfull , must have some positive law to make it unlawfull , which if there be none , it remains lawfull still . and that the church of god should be debarr'd of any priviledge of any other societies , i understand not ; especially if it belong to it as a society considered in its self , and not as a particular society constituted upon such accounts as the church is . for i doubt not but to make it evident afterwards , that many parts of government in the church belong not to it as such in a restrained sense , but in the general notion of it , as a society of men imbodyed together by some laws proper to its self ; although it subsist upon a higher foundation , viz. of divine institution , and upon higher grounds , reasons , principles , ends ; and be directed by other laws immediately then any other societies in the world are . the third hypothesis is this ; where the law of nature determines the thing , and the divine law determines the manner and circumstances of the thing , there we are bound to obey the divine law in its particular determinations , by vertue of the law of nature in its general obligation . as for instance , the law of nature bindeth man to worship god ; but for the way , manner , and circumstances of worship , we are to follow the positive laws of god : because as we are bound by nature to worship him , so we are bound by vertue of the same law to worship him in the manner best pleasing to himself . for the light of nature , though it determine the duty of worship , yet it doth not the way and manner , and though acts of pure obedience be in themselves acceptable unto god , yet as to the manner of those acts , and the positives of worship , they are no further acceptable unto god then commanded by him . because in things not necessarily determined by the law of nature , the goodnesse or evill of them lying in reference to gods acceptance , it must depend upon his command , supposing positive laws to be at all given by god to direct men in their worship of him . for supposing god had not at all revealed himself in order to his worship ; doubtlesse it had been lawfull for men not only to pray to god , & express their sense of their dependance upon him ; but to appoint waies , times and places for the doing it , as they should judge most convenient & agreeable to natural light . which is evident from the scripture its self as to places : for as far as we can find , sacrificing in high places , ( that is , such as were of mens own appointment ) was lawful , till the temple was built by solomon ; as appears by the several examples of gedeon , samuel , david , and others . indeed after the place was setled by gods own law , it became wholly sinfull : but if so before , we should not have read of gods accepting sacrifices in such places as he did gedeons , nor of the prophets doing it , as samuel and david did . it is a disputable case about sacrifices , whether the offering of them came only from natural light , or from some express command : the latter seems far more probable to me , because i cannot see how naturall light should any wise dictate that god would accept of the blood of other creatures as a token of mans obedience to himself . and rivet gives this very good reason why the destruction of any thing in sacrifice cannot belong to the law of nature , because it is only acceptable as a sign , and token of obedience , and not simply as an act of obedience ; and this sign signifying ex instituto ( for mans destroying the life of a beast can never naturally signifie mans obedience to god ) and therefore it must have some positive law ; for those which signifie only by institution , and not naturally , cannot be referred to a dictate of the law of nature . to which purpose it is further observable , that god doth so often in scrip●ure slight the offering of sacrifices , in respect of any inherent vertue or goodnesse in the action its self , or acceptablenesse to god upon the account of the thing done . in which sense god saith , he that killeth a bullock , is as if he slew a man ; and he that sacrificeth a sheep , as if he cut off a dogs neck , &c. for what is there more in the one then in the other , but only gods appointment , which makes one acceptable and not the other ? so that it is no wayes probable that god would have accepted abels sacrifice rather then cains , had there been no command for their sacrificing . for as to meer natural light , cains sacrifice seems more agreeable to that then abels ; cains being an eucharistical offering without hurt to other creatures , but abels was cruentum sacrificium a sacrifice of blood . but the chief ground of abels acceptance , was his offering in faith , as the apostle to the hebrews tells us : now saith is a higher principle then natural light , and must suppose divine revelation , and so a divine command as the principle and ground of his action . moses his silence in reference to a command , is no argument there was none , it not being his design to write at large all the particular precepts of the orall law , but to deduce the genealogy of the patriarchs down from adam and the creation . but , supposing a command given from god determining modes and circumstances of such ●hings of which the substance depends on a natural law , men are as well bound to the observation of them after their revelation , as the other before . the one being a testimony of their obedience to god as clear and full as the other ; yes , and so much the clearer evidence of obedience , in that there could be no argument for the performing of those things but a divine command . and even in doing things intrinsecally good , the ground of purely religious obedience is , because god commands men to do those things more then that they are good in themselves : doing a thing because most suitable to nature , speaking morality ; but doing because god commands it , speaks true religion and the obedience of faith. for as the formal reason of the act of faith is a divine testimony discovered to our understandings , so the formal principle of an act of spiritual obedience is a divine command inclining the will , and awing it to performance . so far then as divine law determines things , we are bound to observe them from the dictates of the natural law. the fourth hypothesis : in things which are determined both by the law of nature , and divine positive laws , as to the substance and morality of them , but not determined as to all circumstances belonging to them ; it is in the power of lawful authority in the church of god to determine them , so far as they judge them tend to the promoting the performance of them in due manner . so that not only matters wholly left at liberty as to the substance of them are subject to humane laws and constitutions , but even things commanded in the divine law , in reference to the manner of performance , if undetermined by the same law , which enforce the duty . thus the setting apart some time for gods worship , is a dictate of the natural law : that the first day of the week be that time , is determin'd under the gospel ; but in what places , at what hours , in what order , decency and solemnity this worship shall be then performed , are circumstances not determined in scripture , but only by general rules ; as to these then so they be done in conformity to those rules , they are subject to humane positive determinations . but this is not an hypothesis in the age we live in to be taken for granted without proving it : some denying the magistrate any power at all in matters of religion ; others granting a defensive , protective power of that religion which is professed according to the laws of christ , but denying any determining power in the magistrate concerning things left undetermin'd by the scripture . this hypothesis then hath landed me into a field of controversie , wherein i shall not so much strive to make my way through any opposite party , as endeavour to beget a right understanding between the adverse parties , in order to a mutual compliance ; which i shall the rather do , because if any controversie hath been an increaser and fomenter of heart-burnings and divisions among us , it hath been about the determination of indifferent things . and , which seems strange , the things men can least bear with one another in , are matters of liberty : and those things men have divided most upon , have been matters of uniformity , and wherein they have differed most , have been pretended things of indifferency . in order then to laying a foundation for peace and union . i shall calmly debate what power the magistrate hath in matters of religion , and how far that power doth extend in determining things left undetermin'd by the word . for the clear understanding the first of these , we shall make our passage open to it by the laying down several necess●ry distinctions about it , the want of considering which hath been the ground of the great confusion in the handling this controversie . first then , we must distinguish between a power respecting religion in its self , and a power concerning religion as it is the publick owned and professed religion of a nation . for although the magistrate hath no proper power over religion in its self , either taking it abstractly for the rule of worship , or concretely for the internal acts of worship ; for he can neither add to that rule nor dissolve the obligation of it ; nor yet can he force the consciences of men , ( the chief seat of religion ) it being both contrary to the nature of religion its self , which is a matter of the greatest freedom and internal liberty , and it being quite out of the reach of the magistrates laws , which respect only external actions as their proper object ; for the obligation of any law can extend no further then the jurisdiction and authority of the legislator , which among men is only to the outward actions . but then , if we consider religion as it is publikely owned and professed by a nation , the supreme magistrate is bound by vertue of his office and authority , not only to defend and protect it , but to restrain men from acting any thing publikely tending to the subversion of it , so that the plea for liberty of conscience , as it tends to restrain the magistrates power , i● both irrationall and impertinent ; because liberty of conscience is the liberty of mens judgements , which the magistrate cannot deprive them of . for men may hold what opinions they will in their minds , the law takes no cognizance of them : but it is the liberty of practice and venting and broaching those opinions which the magistrates power extends to the restraint of . and he that hath the care of the publike good , may give liberty to , and restrain liberty from men , as they act in order to the promoting of that good ; and as a liberty of all opinions tends manifestly to the subverting a nations peace , and to the embroyling it into continual confusions , a magistrate cannot discharge his office unlesse he hath power to restrain such a liberty . therefore we find plainly in scripture that god imputes the increase and impunity of idolatry as well as other vices to the want of a lawful magistracy , iudges . , . where the account given of micahs idolatry was , because there was no king in israel ; which implies it to be the care and duty of magistrates to punish and restrain whatever tends to the opposing and subverting the true religion . besides , i cannot find any reason pleaded against the magistrates power now , which would not have held under david , solomon , asa , iehosophat , hezekias , iosias , or other kings of the jews , who asserted the publike profession , to the extirpation to what opposed it . for the plea of conscience ( taken for mens judgements going contrary to what is publikely owned as religion ) it is indifferently calculated for all meridians , and will serve for a religion of any elevation . nay , stiff and contumacious infidels or idolaters may plead as highly ( though not so truly ) as any , that it goes against their judgements or their conscience to own that religion which is established by authority . if it be lawfull then to restrain such notwithstanding this pretence , why not others , whose doctrine and principles the magistrate judgeth to tend in their degree ( though not so highly ) to the dishonouring god , and subverting the profession entertained in a nation ? for , a mans own certainty and confidence that he is in the right , can have no influence upon the magistrate judging otherwise ; only if it be true , it wil afford him the greater comfort and patience under his restraint ; which was the case of the primitive christians under persecutions : the magistrate then is bound to defend , protect , and maintain the religion he owns as true , and that by vertue of his office , as he is custos utriusque tabulae ; the maintainer of the honour of gods laws , which cannot be if he suffer those of the first table to be broken without any notice taken of them . were it not for this power of magistrates under the gospel , how could that promise be ever made good , that kings shall be nursing fathers to the church of god ? unlesse they mean such nursing fathers as astyages was to cyrus , or amulius to romulus and remus , who exposed their nurslings to the fury of wild beasts to be devoured by them . for so must a magistrate do the church , unlesse he secure it from the incursion of hereticks , and the inundation of seducers . but so much for that which is more largely asserted and proved by others . the magistrate then hath power concerning religion , as owned in a nation . secondly , we must distinguish between an external and objective power , about matters of religion ; and an internal formal power , which some call an imperative and elicitive power , others a power of order , and a power of jurisdiction , others potestas ecclesiastica , and potestas circa ecclesiastica , or , in the old distinction of constantine , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a power of things within and without the church ; the sense of all is the same , though the terms differ . the internal , formal , elicitive power of order , concerning things in the church , lies in authoritative exercise of the ministerial function , in preaching the word , and administration of sacraments ; but the external , objective , imperative power of jurisdiction , concerning the matters of the church , lies in a due care and provision , for the defence , protection , and propagation of religion . the former is only proper to the ministry , the latter to the supreme magistracy : for , though the magistrate hath so much power about religion , yet he is not to usurp the ministerial function , nor to do any proper acts belonging to it . to which the instance of uzzias is pertinently applied . but then this takes nothing off from the magistrates power ; for it belongs not to the magistrate imperata facere , but imperare facienda , as grotius truly observes , not to do the things commanded , but to command the things to be done . from this distinction we may easily understand , and resolve that so much vexed and intricate question , concerning the mutual subordination of the civil and ecclesiastical power : for , as peter martyr well observes , these two powers are some wayes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , are conversant several wayes about the same thing ; but the functions of both of them must be distinguished : for the pastors of the church are not to administer justice , but it is their duty to declare how justice should be rightly administred , without partiality , or oppression . so , on the other side , the magistrate must not preach the gospel , nor administer sacraments ; but however , must take care that these be duly done by ●hose to whose function it belongs : but for a clearer making it appear , these things are to be considered ; both in a magistrate , and minister of the gospel . in a magistrate , the power it self , and the person bearing that power : the power it self of the magistrate is no ways subordinate to the power of the ministry : indeed , if we consider both powers , in reference to their objects , and ends , there may be an inferiority of dignity , as chamier calls it , in the civil power to the other , considered abstractly ; but considering it concretely , as lodged in the persons , there is an inferiority of subjection in the ecclesiastical to the civil . but still the person of the magistrate , though he is not subject to the power of the ministers , yet both as a christian , and as a magistrate , he is subject to the word of god , and is to be guided by that in the administration of his function . so on the other side , in a minister of the gospel , there are these things considerable ; the object of his function , the function its self , the liberty of exercising it , and the person who doth exercise it . as for the object of this function , the word and sacraments , these are not subject to the civil power , being setled by a law of christ ; but then for the function its self , that may be considered , either in the derivation of it , or in the administration of it . as for the derivation of the power and authority of the function , that is from christ , who hath setled and provided by law , that there shall be such a standing function to the end of the world , with such authority belonging to it : but for the administration of the function , two things belong to the magistrate : first , to provide and take care for due administration of it ; an● to see that the ministers preach the true doctrine , though he cannot lawfully forbid the true doctrine to be taught ; and that they duly administer the sacraments , though he cannot command them to administer them otherwise then christ hath delivered them down to us : this for due administration . secondly , in case of male-administration of his function , or scandal rendring him unfit for it , it is in the magistrates power , if not formally to depose , yet to deprive them of the liberty of ever exercising their function within his dominions ; as solom●n did abiathar , and iustinian sylverius , as constantius did vigilius : for the liberty of exercise of the function is in the magistrates power , though a right to exercise it be derived from the same power from which the authority belonging to the function was conveyed . and then lastly , as to the persons exercising this function , it is evident , as they are members of a civil society as well as others , so they are subject to the same civil laws as others are . which as it is expresly affirmed by chrysostom , on rom. . . let every soul be subject to the higher powers ; that is , saith he , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , be he an apostle , evangelist , prophet , priest , monk , be he who he will : so it is fully , largely , irrefragably proved by our writers against the papists ; especially by the learned is. casaubon in his piece de libertate ecclesiasticâ . so then we see what a fair , amicable , and mutual aspect these two powers have one upon another , when rightly understood , being far from clashing one with the other ; either by a subjection of the civil power to the ecclesiastical , or the civil powers swallowing up and devouring the peculiarity of the ministerial function . and upon these grounds , i suppose , beza and erastus may , as to this , shake hands ; so that the magistrate do not usurp the ministerial function , which videlius calls papatus politicus ; nor the ministers subject the civil power to them , which is papatus ecclesiasticus . thirdly , we distinguish between an absolute architectonical and nomothetical power , independent upon any other law , and a legislative power , absolute as to persons , but regulated by a higher law. the former we attribute to none but god ; the latter belongs to a supreme magistrate , in reference to things belonging to his power , either in church or commonwealth . by an architectonical , nomothetical power , we mean that power which is distinguished from that which is properly call'd political . the former lies in the making laws for the good of the commonwealth ; the latter in a due execution and administration of those laws for the common good. this we have asserted to the magistrate already : we now come to assert the other ; where we shall first set down the bounds of this power , and then see to whom it belongs . first , then we say not , that the magistrate hath a power to revoke , rep●al , or alter any divine positive law ; which we have already shewn . secondly , we say not , that the magistrate by his own will may constitute what new laws he please for the worship of god. this was the fault of ieroboam who made israel to sin , and therefore by the rule of reason must be supposed to sin more himself : so likewise ahab , ahaz , and others . religion is a thing setled by a divine law ; and as it is taken for the doctrine and worship of god , so it is contained in the word of god , and must be fetched wholly from thence . but then thirdly , the magistrate by his power , may make that which is a divine law already , become the law of the land. thus religion may be incorporated among our laws , and the bible become our magna charta . so the first law in the codex theod. is about the believing the trinity , and many others about religion are inserted into it . now as to these things clearly revealed in the word of god , and withall commanded by the civil magistrate , although the primary obligation to the doing them , is from the former determination by a divine law ; yet the sanction of them by the civil magistrate , may cause a further obligation upon conscience then was before , and may add punishments and rewards not expressed before . for although when two laws are contrary the one to the other , the obligation to the higher law takes away the obligation to the other ; yet when they are of the same nature , or subordinate one to the other , there may a new obligation arise from the same law , enacted by a new authority . as the commands of the decalogue brought a new obligation upon the consciences of the jews , though the things contained in them , were commanded before in the law of nature : and as a vow made by a man , adds a new ●ye to his conscience , when the matter of his vow is the same with what the word of god commands ; and renewing our covenant with god after baptism , renews our obligation : so when the faith of the gospel becomes the law of a nation , men are bound by a double cord of duty to entertain and profess that faith. fourthly , in matters undetermined by the word , concerning the external polity of the church of god , the magistrate hath the power of determining things , so they be agreeable to the word of god. this last clause is that which binds the magistrates power , that it is not absolutely architectonicall , because all his laws must be regulated by the generall rules of the divine law - but though it be not as to laws , yet i say it is as to persons ; that is , that no other persons have any power to make laws , binding men to obedience , but only the civil magistrate . this is another part of the controversie between the civil and ecclesiastical power , about the power of determining matters belonging to the churches government : but there is here no such breach between those two , but what may be made up with a distinction or two ▪ we distinguish then between a power declarative , of the obligation of former laws ; and a power authoritative , determining a new obligation ; between the office of counselling and advising what is fit to be done , and a power determining what shall be done ; between the magistrates duty of consulting , in order to the doing it , and his deriving his authority for the doing it . these things premised , i say : first , that the power of declaring the obligation of former laws , and of consulting and advising the magistrate for setling of new laws , for the policy of the church , belongs to the pastors and governours of the church of god. this belongs to them , as they are commanded to teach what christ hath commanded them ; but no authority thereby given to make new laws to bind the church ; but rather a tying them up to the commands of christ already laid down in his word . for a power to bind mens consciences to their determinations ; lodged in the officers of the church , must be derived either from a law of god giving them this right , or else only from the consent of parties . for any law of god , there is none produced with any probability of reason , but that , obey those that are over you in the lord. but that implies no more then submitting to the doctrine and discipline of the gospel , and to those whom christ hath constituted as pastors of his church , wherein the law of christ doth require obedience to them , that is , in looking upon them , and owning them in their relation to them as pastors . but that gives them no authority to make any new laws or constitutions , binding mens consciences any more then a command from the supreme authority that inferiour magistrates should be obeyed , doth imply any power in them to make new laws to bind them . but thus far i acknowledge a binding power in ecclesiastical constitutions , though they neither bind by virtue of the matter , nor of the authority commanding ( there being no legislative power lodged in the church ) yet in respect of the circumstances and the end , they should be obey'd , unlesse i judge the thing unlawfull that is commanded , rather then manifest open contempt of the pastors of the church , or being a scandall to others by it . but as to the other power , arising from mutual compact and consent of parties , i acknowledge a power to bind all included under that compact , not by vertue of any supream binding power in them , but from the free consent of the parties submitting ; which is most agreeable to the nature of church-power , being not coactive but directive ; and such was the confederate discipline of the primitive church , before they had any christian magistrate : and thence the decrees of councils were call'd canons , and not laws . secondly , though it be the magistrates duty to consult with the pastors of the church , to know what is most agreeable to the word of god , for the settlement of the church ; yet the magistrate doth not derive his authority in commanding things from their sentence , decree , and judgement ; but doth by vertue of his own power cause the obligation of men to what is so determin'd , by his own enacting what shall be done in the church . the great use of synods , and assemblies of pastors of churches , is to be as the council of the church unto the king , in matters belonging to the church , as the parliament is for matters of civil concernment . and as the king , for the settling civil laws , doth take advice of such persons who are most versed in matters of law ; so by proportion of reason , in matters concerning the church , they are the fittest council , who have been the most versed in matters immediately belonging to the church : in the management of which affairs , as much , if not more prudence , experience , judgement , moderation , is requisite , as in the greatest affairs of state. for we have found by dolefull experience , that if a fire once catch the church , and aarons bells ring backward , what a combustion the whole state is suddenly put into , and how hardly the churches instruments for quenching such fires , lachrymae & preces ecclesiae , do attain their end . the least peg serued up too high in the church soon causeth a great deal of discord in the state , and quickly puts mens spirits out of tune . whereas many irregularities may happen in the state , and men live in quietnesse and peace . but if pha●tons d●ive the chariot of the sun , the world wil be soon on fire . i mean such in the church whose brains like the unicorns run out into the length of the horn ▪ such who have more fury then zeal , and yet more zeal then knowledge or moderation . persons therefore whose calling , ●temper , office , and experience , hath best acquainted them with the state-actions ▪ policy of the primitive church , and the incomparable prudence and moderation then used , are fittest to debate , consult , deliberate , and determine about the safest expedients for repairing breaches in a divided , broken , distracted church . but yet , i say , when such men thus assembled have gravely and maturely advised and deliberated what is best and fitted to te done ▪ the force , strength , and obligation of the things so determin'd doth depend upon the power and authority of the civil magistrate : for taking the church as incorporated into the civill state , as ecclesia est in republicâ , non respublica in ecclesia , according to that known speech of optatus milivetanus , so , though the object of these constitutions , and the persons determining them , and the matter of them be ecclesiasticall , yet the force and ground of the obligation of them is wholly civill . so peter martyr expresly ; nam , quod ad potestatem ecclesiasticam attinet , satis est civilis magistratus : is enim ●urare debet ut omnes officium faciant . ( but for the judgement of the reformed divines about this , see vedelius de episcopatis constant. m — & officium magistratus christiani , annexed to grotius de imper. &c. ) i therefore proceed to lay down the reason of it . first , that whereby we are bound either to obedience , or penalty upon disobedience , is the ground of the obligation ; but it is upon the account of the magistrates power that we are either bound to obedience , or to submit to penalties upon disobedience . for it is upon the account of our general obligation to the magistrate , that we are bound to obey any particular laws or constitutions : because it is not the particular determinations made by the civil magistrate , which do immediately bind conscience , but the general law of scripture requires it as a duty from us , to obey the magistrate in all things lawfull . obedience to the magistrate is due immediately from conscience ; but obedience to the laws of the magistrate comes not directly from conscience but by vertue of the general obligation . and therefore disobedience to the magistrates laws is an immediate sin against conscience , because it is against the general obligation ; but obedience to particular laws ariseth not immediately from the obligation of conscience to them in particular , but to the magistrate in general . so that in things left lawfull and undetermin'd by the word , where there ariseth no obligation from the matter , it must arise from our subjection and relation to the magistrate ; and what is the ground of obedience , is the cause of the obligation . secondly , he hath only the power of obligations who hath the power of making sanctions to those laws . by sanctions , i mean here , in the sense of the civil law , eas legum partes , quibus poenas constituimus adversus eos qui contra leges fecerint ; those parts of the law which determine the punishments of the violaters of it . now it is evident that he only hath power to oblige who hath power to punish upon disobedience . and it is as evident , that none hath power to punish but the civill magistrate ; i speak of legall penalties which are annexed to such laws as concern the church . now there being no coercive or coactive power belonging to the church as such , all the force of such laws as respect the outward polity of the church , must be derived from the civill magistrate . thirdly , he who can null and declare all other obligations void , done without his power , hath the only power to oblige . for whatsoever destroys a former obligation , must of necessity imply a power to oblige , because i am bound to obey him in the abstaining from that i was formerly obliged to : but this power belongs to the magistrate . for suppose , in some indifferent rites and ceremonies , the church representative , that is , the governors of it pro tempore , do prescribe them to be observed by all , the supreme power f●rbids the doing of those things , if this doth not null the former supposed obligation , i must inevitably run upon these absurdities . first , that there are two supreme powers in a nation at the same time . secondly , that a man may lie under two different obligations as to the same thing ; he is bound to do it by one power , and not to do it by the other . thirdly , the same action may be a duty and a sin ; a duty in obeying the one power , a sin in disobeying the other . therefore there can be but one power to oblige , which is that of the supreme magistrate . having thus far asserted the magistrates due power and authority , as to matters of religion ; we proceed to examine the extent of this power , in determining things left at liberty by the word of god , in order to the peace and government of the church . for our clear and distinct proceeding , i shall ascend by these three steps : first , to shew that there are some things left undetermined by the word . secondly , that these things are capable of positive determinations and restraint . thirdly , that there are some bounds and limits to be observed in the stating and determining these things . first , that there are some things left undetermined by the word : by determining here , i do not mean determining whether things be lawful or no ; for so there is no rit● or ceremony whatsoever , but is determined by the scripture in that sense , or may be gathered from the application of particular actions , to the general rules of scripture : but by determining , i mean , whether all things concerning the churches polity and order be determined as duties or no : viz. that this we are bound to observe , and the other not . as for instance , what time , manner , method , gesture , habit , be used in preaching the word ; whether baptism must be by dipping or sprinkling ; at what day , time , place , the child shall be baptized , and other things of a like nature with these . those who assert any of these as duties , must produce necessarily the command making them to be so : for duty and command have a necessary respect and relation to one another . if no command be brought , it necessarily follows , that they are left at liberty . so as to the lords supper calvin saith , whether the communicants take the bread themselves , or receive it being given them ; whether they should give the cup into the hands of the deacon , or to their next neighbour ; whether the bread be leavened or not , the wine red or white , nihil refert , it matters not ; haec indifferentia sunt & in ecclesiae libertate posita ; they are matters of indifferency , and are left to the churches liberty . but this matter of indifferency is not yet so clear as it is generally thought to be ; we shall therefore bare the ground a little by some necessary distinctions to see where the root of indifferency lies : which we shall the rather do , because it is strongly asserted by an honourable person , that there is no indifferency in the things themselves , which are still either unlawful or necessary , ( if lawful at this time , in these circumstances ) but all indifferency lies in the darkness and shortness of our understandings , which may make some things seem so to us . but that honourable person clearly runs upon a double mistake . first , that indifferency is a medium participationis of both extremes , and not only negationis , viz. that , as intermediate colours partake both of black and white , and yet are neither ; so in morality , between good and bad , there is an intermediate entity , which is neither , but indifferent to either : whereas the nature of indifferency lies not in any thing intermediate between good and bad , but in some thing undetermined by divine laws , as to the necessity of it ; so that if we speak as to the extremes of it , it is something lying between a necessary duty , and an intrinsecal evil . the other mistake , is , that throughout that discourse he takes indifferency as circumstantiated in individual actions , and as the morality of the action is determined by its circumstances ; whereas the proper notion of indifferency lies in the nature of the action , considered in its self abstractly ; and so these things are implyed in an indifferent action . first , absolute undetermination ; as to the general nature of the act by a divine law , that god hath left it free for men to do it or no. secondly , that one part hath not more propension to the rule then the other ; for if the doing of it comes nearer to the rule then the omission ; or on the contrary , this action is not wholly indifferent . thirdly , that neither part hath any repugnancy to the rule ; for that which hath so , is so far from being indifferent , that it becomes unlawful : so that an indifferent action is therein like the iron accosted by two loadstones on either side of equal virtue , and so hovers in medio , inclining to neither ; but , supposing any degree of virtue added to the one above the other , it then inclines towards it : or as the magnetical needle about the azores , keeps its self directly parallel to the axis of the world without variation , because it is supposed then to be at an equal distance from the two great magnets , the continents of europe and america : but no sooner is it removed from thence , but it hath its variations . so indifferency , taken in specie , as to the nature of the act , inclines neither way ; but supposing it lye under positive determinations , either by laws or circumstances , it then necessarily inclines either to the nature of good or e●il . neither yet are we come to a full understanding of the nature of indifferent actions ; we must therefore distinguish between indifferency , as to goodness , necessitating an action to be done ; and as to goodness , necessary to an action to make it good : for there is one kind of goodness propter quam fit actio , in order to which the action must necessarily be done ; and there is another kind of goodness sine quâ non benè fit actio , necessary to make an action good when it is done . as following after peace hath such a goodness in it , as necessitates the action , and makes it a necessary duty : but handling a particular controversie is such an action , as a man may let alone without sin in his course of studies ; yet when he doth it , there is a goodness necessary to make his doing it a good action , viz. his referring his study of it to a right end , for the obtaining of truth and peace . this latter goodness is twofold , either bonitas directionis , as some call it , which is , referring the action to its true end ; in reference to which , the great controversie among the schoolmen , is about the indifferency of particular actions , viz. whether a particular direction of a mans intention to the ultimate end , be not so necessary to particular actions , as that , without that , the action is of necessity evil , and with it good ; or whether without that an action may be indifferent to good or evil , which is the state of the question between thomas and scotus , bonaventure and durandus ; but we assert the necessity of at least an habitual direction , to make the action in individuo good , and yet the act in its self may notwithstanding be indifferent , even in individuo , as there is no antecedent necessity lying upon mens consciences for the doing of it ; because men may omit it , and break no law of god. besides this , to make an action good , there is necessary a bonitas originis , or rather principii , ●● good principle , out of which the action must flow ; which must be that faith , which whatsoever is not of , is sin ; as the apostle tells us . which we must not so understand , as though in every action a man goes about , he must have a full perswasion that it is a necessary duty he goes about ; but in many actions that faith is sufficient , whereby he is perswaded upon good ground , that the thing he goes about is lawful ; although he may as lawfully omit that action ; and do either another , or the contrary to it . there may be then the necessity of some things in an action when it is done to make it good , and yet the action its self be no ways necessary , but indifferent , and a matter of liberty . this may be easily understood by what is usually said of gods particular actions , that god is free in himself either to do or not to do that action ( as suppose the creation of the world ) but when he doth it , he must necessarily do it with that goodness , holiness , and wisdom , which is suitable to his nature : so may many actions of men be in themselves indifferent , and yet there must be a concomitant necessity of good intention and principle to make the action good . but this concomitant necessity doth not destroy the radical indifferency of the action it self ; it is only an antecedent necessity from the obligation of the law , is that which destroys indifferency . so likewise it is as to evil ; there is such an evil in an action , which not only spoils the action , but hinders the person from the liberty of doing it , that is , in all such actions as are intrinsecally evil ; and there is such a kind of evil in actions , which though it spoils the goodness of the action , yet keeps not from performance ; which is such as ariseth from the manner of performance , as praying in hypocrisie , &c. doing a thing lawful with a scrupulous or erring conscience . we see then what good and evil is consistent with indifferency in actions , and what is not . and that the nature of actions , even in individuo , may be indifferent , when as to their circumstances they may be necessarily determin'd to be either good or evil . as marrying , or not marrying , as to the law of god , is left at liberty , not making it in its self a necessary duty , one way or other ; but , supposing particular circumstances make it necessary , pro hîc & nunc , yet the nature of it remains indifferent st●ll ; and supposing marriage , it is necessary it should be in the lord , and yet it is not necessary to make choice of this person rather then of that , so that not only the absolute indifferency of the action is consistent with this concomitant necessity , but the full liberty , both of contradiction , and contrariety . again , we must distinguish between an indifferency , as to its nature , and indifferency , as to its use and end ; or between an indifferency as to a law , and indifferency as to order and peace : here i say , that in things wholly indifferent in both respects , that is , in a thing neither commanded nor forbidden by god , nor that hath any apparent respect to the peace and order of the church of god , there can be no rational account given , why the nature of such indifferencies should be alter'd by any humane laws and constitutions . but matters that are only indifferent as to a command , but are much conducing to the peace and order of a church , such things as these , are the proper matter of humane constitutions concerning the churches polity : or rather , to keep to the words of the hypothesis it self , where any things are determin'd in general by the word of god , but left at liberty , as to manner and circumstances , it is in the power of lawful authority in the church of god to determine such things , as far as they tend to the promoting the good of the church . and so i rise to the second step , which is , that matters of this nature may be determin'd and restrained . or , that there is no necessity , that all matters of liberty should remain in their primary indifferency . this i know is asserted by some of great note and learning ; that in things which god hath left to our christian liberty , man may not restrain us of it , by subjecting those things to positive laws ; but i come to examine , with what strength of reason this is said , that so we may see , whether men may not yield in some lawful things to a restraint of their christian liberty , in order to the peace of the church of god : which i now prove by these arguments . first , what may be lawfully done when it is commanded , may be so far lawfully commanded , as it is a thing in it self lawful ; but matters of christian liberty may be lawfully done when they are commanded to be done , though it were lawful not to do them before that command . the truth of the proposition appears , because lawful authority may command any thing that may be lawfully done . because nothing can exempt from obedience to a lawful magistrate , but the unlawfulness of the thing commanded ; and therefore nothing can debar the magistrate from commanding these things ; for nothing can hinder him from commanding , but what may hinder the subject from obedience . i grant in many cases it may be lawful to obey , when it is very inconvenient for the magistrate to command : but inconveniency and unlawfulness are two things ; nay , and in some cases a man may lawfully obey when he is unlawfully commanded ; but then the matter of the command it self is unlawful . as in executing an unjust sentence , granting that a princes servants may lawfully do it , especially when they know it not ; yet in that case , the ground of their lawful obedience , is the ground of the magistrates lawful command , which is the supposed justice of the execution . but that which makes the magistrates command unlawful , is the intrinsecal evil of the thing its self . so for unlawful wars , though the subjects may lawfully obey , yet the prince sins in commanding , not but that he hath right to command so far as they are bound to obey , which is only in things lawful : but that which in this case alters the matter , is , the princes knowing his cause to be unjust . so that however the proposition holds in things not manifestly unjust . but however this be , it is hereby granted , that the things may be lawfully done , when they are restrained by the magistrates command : and by that it appears , that liberty may be restrained , else it could not be lawful to act under that restraint , not as it respects the things themselves , but under that formality , as they are the restraint of that which ought to be left free . the restraint however then is lawful , as to the persons acting under authority , who are the subjects of this liberty , though it were granted unlawfull as to the authority doing it . which former is sufficient for my purpose , viz. that christian liberty , as to the subjects of it , may be lawfully restrained . secondly , a lesser duty ceaseth to be a duty , when it hinders from the performance of greater ; but the preserving christian liberty is a lesser duty , which may hinder the peace of the church , which is a greater ; therefore in that case it may be restrained . the major is granted by divines and casuists ; when duties stand in competition , the lesser ceaseth to bind , as is evident , in that god will have mercy rather then sacrifice . positives yield to morals and naturals . thence the obligation of an oath ceaseth , when it hinders from a natural duty ; as the corban among the jews from relief of parents . and therefore grotius saith , that an oath taken concerning a thing lawfull , if it doth hinder majus bonum morale , the obligation of that oath ceaseth . now that preserving-liberty is a lesser duty then the looking after the peace of the church , is evident , because the one is only a matter of liberty , and left undetermin'd by the word ; and the other a matter of necessity , and absolutely , and expresly required of all , as a duty as much as possibly lyes in them to endeavour after . thirdly , if an occasional offence of weaker brethren may be a ground for restraining christian liberty ; then much more may commands from lawfull authority do it ; but the offence of weaker brethren may restrain christian liberty , as to the exercise of it , as appears by the apostles discourse , rom. . . the reason of the consequence lies here , that a case of meer offence , which is here pleaded towards weak brethren , cannot have that obligation upon conscience , which a known duty of obeying lawfull authority , in things in themselves lawfull , hath ▪ nay further , insisting only on the law of scandall , i would fain know , whether it be a greater offence and scandall to christians consciences , to infringe the lawfull authority of the magistrate , and to deny obedience to his commands , in things undetermin'd by the law of god ; or else to offend the consciences , that is , go against the judgements of some well-meaning , but less-knowing christians . or thus , whether in the matter of scandall , it be a greater offence to go against the judgements of the weaker and more ignorant , or the more knowing and able ; when the one have only their own weak apprehension to byasse them , the other are backed by and grounded upon an established law. and whether it be not a greater scandall to religion to disobey a christian magistrate , then it is to offend some private christians . let these things be examined , and then let us see whether the argument will not hold à majori ; if the law of scandall as to private christians may restrain liberty , then may a command from the magistrate do it . fourthly , i argue thus , if the nature of christian-liberty may be preserved under the restraint of the exercise of it , then it is not against the nature of christian-liberty to have the exercise restrained ; but the former is true ; and therefore the latter . now that the nature of christian-liberty may be preserved under the restraint of its exercise , i prove by these arguments . first , because the nature of christian-liberty is founded upon the freedom of judgement , and not the freedom of practice . the case is the same in moral and natural liberty as in christian. now we say truly , that the radical liberty of the soul is preserved , though it be determined to a particular action . for the liberty of the will lying in the power of determining its self either way ( as it is generally thought ) the actuall determination of the will doth not take away the internal power in the soul ; and in that respect there may be a potentia faciendi where there is not possibilit as effectûs , a power of doing when there is no possibility the thing should be done , when the event is otherwise determined by a divine decree , as in breaking the bones of christ upon the crosse. so it is in reference to christian liberty ; though the exercise of it be restrained , yet the liberty remains : because christian-liberty lyes in the freedom of judgement ; that is , in judging those things to be free which are so ; so that if any thing that is in its self free , be done by a man with an opinion of the necessity of doing it antecedent to the law commanding it , or without any law prescribing it , thereby his christian liberty is destroyed ; but if it be done with an opinion of the freedom and indifferency of the thing it self , but only with a consequential necessity of doing it , supposing the magistrates command , he retains the power of his christian-liberty still , though under the restraint of the exercise of it . and therefore it would be well observed , that the opinion of the necessity of any one thing undetermined by scripture , destroys christian-liberty more then a magistrates command doth . and by this reason , they that hold any one posture at receiving the lords supper necessary ( as sitting , leaning , kneeling ) do all equally destroy their own christian-liberty as to these things which are undetermined by the word . so a magistrate when commanding matters of christian-liberty , if in the preface to the law he declares the thing necessary to be done in its self , and therefore he commands it , he takes away as much as in him lyes our christian-liberty . and in that case we ought to hold to that excellent rule of the apostle , stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith christ hath set you free , and be not intangled again with the yoke of bondage . but if the magistrate declare the things to be in themselves indifferent , but only upon some prudent considerations for peace and order , he requires persons to observe them , though this brings a necessity of obedience to us , yet it takes not away our christian-liberty . for an antecedent necessity expressed in the law ( as a learned and excellent casuist of our own observes ) doth not necessarily require the assent of the practical judgement to it ; which takes away our liberty of judgement , or our judgement of the liberty of the things ; but a consequentiall necessity upon a command supposed , doth only imply an act of the will , whereby the freedom of judgement and conscience remaining , it is inclined to obedience to the commands of a superior law. now that liberty doth lye in the freedom of judgement , and not in the freedom of practise , and so is consistent with the restraint of the exercise of it ; appears both in the former case of scandall , and in the actions of the apostles and primitive christians complying with the jews in matters of liberty ; yea which is a great deal more , in such ceremonies of which the apostle expresly saith , that if they observed them , christ would profit them nothing ; and yet we find paul himself circumcising timothy because of the jews . certainly then however these ceremonies are supposed to be not only mortuae but mortiferae now the gospel was preached , and the law of christian-liberty promulged ; yet paul did not look upon it , as the taking away his liberty , at any time when it would prevent scandall among the jews , and tend to the furtherance of the gospel , to use any of them . it was therefore the opinion of the necessity of them was it which destroyed christian-liberty ; and therefore it is observable , that where the opinion of the necessity of observing the judaicall rites and ceremonies was entertained , the apostle sets himself with his whole strength to oppose them , as he doth in his epistles to the galatians and colossians . whom yet we find in other places , and to other churches , not leaven'd with this doctrine of the necessity of judaicall rites , very ready to comply with weak brethren , as in his epistles to the romans and corinthians . from which we plainly see , that it was not the bare doing of the things , but the doing them with an opinion of the necessity of them , is that which infringeth christian-liberty , and not the determination of one part above the other by the supream magistrate , when it is declared not to be for any opinion of the things themselves as necessary , but to be only in order to the churches peace and unity . secondly , it appears that liberty is consistent with the restraint of the exercise of it ; because the very power of restraining the exercise of it , doth suppose it to be a matter of liberty , and that both antecedently and consequentially to that restraint . antecedently , so it is apparent to be a matter of liberty , else it was not capable of being restrained : consequentially , in that the ground of observance of those things when restrained , is not any necessity of the matter , or the things themselves ; but only the necessity of obeying the magistrate in things lawfull and undertermin'd by the word : which leads to another argument . thirdly , mens obligation to these things , as to the ground of it , being only in point of contempt and scandall , argues that the things are matter of liberty still . i grant the magistrates authority is the ground of obedience , but the ground of the magistrates command is only in point of contempt and scandall , and for preserving order in the church : for i have already shewed it to be unlawfull , either to command or obey ; in reference to these things , from any opinion of the necessity of them , and therefore the only ground of observing them , is to shew that we are not guilty of contempt of the power commanding them , nor of scandall to others that are offended at our not observing them . tota igitur religio est in fugiendo scandalo & vitando contemptu , saith our learned whitaker : all our ground of obedience is the avoiding scandall and contempt of authority . to the same purpose pet. martyr , speaking of the obligation of ecclesiasticall laws : non obstringunt si removeatur contemptus & scandalum : so that non-observance of indifferent things commanded , when there there is no apparent contempt or scandall , do not involve a man in the guilt of sin : as suppose a law made that all publike prayer be performed kneeling , if any thing lies in a mans way to hinder him from that posture , in this case the man offends not ; because there is no contempt or scandall : so if a law were made that all should receive the lords supper fasting , if a mans health calls for somwhat to refresh him before , he sins not in the breach of that law. and therefore it is observable which whitaker takes notice of in the canons of the councils of the primitive church , that though they did determine many things belonging to the externall polity of the church , yet they observed this difference in their censures or anathema's ; that in matte●s of meer order and decency they never pronounced an anathema , but with the supposition of ●pp●rent contempt ; and inserted , si quis contrà praesumpserit , si quis contumaciter contrà fecerit : but in matters of doctrine or life , fully determin'd by the law of god , they pronounced a simple anathema , without any such clause inserted . now from this , we may take notice of a difference between laws concerning indifferencies in civill and ecclesiastical matters : that in civils the laws bind to indifferencies without the case of contempt or scandall , because in these the publike good is aimed a● , of which every private person is not fit to judge , and therefore it is our duty either to obey or suffer ; but in ecclesiasticall constitution , only peace and order is that which is looked at , and therefore , si nihil contra 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 feceris , non teneris illis , is the rule here . if nothing tending to apparent disorder be done , men break not those laws : for the end and reason of a law is the measure of its obligation . fourthly , mens being left free to do the things forbidden , either upon a repeal of the former laws , or when a man is from under obligation to that authority which commands them , argues them still to be matters of liberty , and not matters of necessity . that laws respecting indifferent things may be repealed , i cannot imagine that any have so little reason as to deny , upon a different state of affairs from what it was when they were first enacted ; or when they cannot attain the ends they are designed for , the peace and order of the church , but rather tend to imbroil it in trouble and confusion : and that when men are from under the authority imposing them , men are at their own liberty again , must necessarily be granted , because the ground of restraint of that liberty was the authority they were under ; and therefore the cause being taken away , the effects follows . therefore for men to do them when authority doth not impose them , must imply an opinion of the necessity of the things themselves , which destroyes christian-liberty . whence ▪ it was resolved by augustine in the case of rites , that every one should observe those of that church which he was in : which he saith , he took from ambrose . his words are these , nec disciplina ulla ▪ in his melior gravi prudentique christiano , quàm ut eo modo agat , quo agere viderit ecclesiam , ad quamcunque forte devenerit . quod enim neque contra fidem , neque contra bonos more 's injungitur , indifferenter est habendum , & pro corum inter quos vivitur societate servandum est . he tells us , he knew no better course for a serious prudent christian to take in matters of rites and customes , then to follow the churches example where he is : for whatsoever is observed neither against faith or manners , is a matter in its self indifferent , and to be observed according to the custome of those he lives among . and after , acquaints us that his mother coming to milan after him , and finding the church there not observe the saturday-fast as the church of rome did , was much perplexed and troubled in her mind at it ( as tender , but weak consciences are apt to be troubled at any thing contrary to their own practice ) ; she for her own satisfaction sends her son to ambrose , then bishop of the church there , who told him he would give him no other answer but what he did himself , and if he knew any thing better , he would do it . augustine presently expects a command from him to leave off saturday fasts : instead of that ; ambrose tells him ; cum romam veni● , jejuno sabbato ; cum hic sum , non jejuno . sic etiam tu ad quam forte ecclesiam veneris , ejus morem serva ; si cuiquam non vis esse scandalo , n●● quenquam ▪ tibi . when i am at rome i fast on the sabbath , but at milan i do not . so thou likewise , when thou comest to any church , observe its custome , if thou wouldst neither be an offence to them , nor have them be so to thee . a rare and excellent example of the piety , prudence , and moderation of the primitive church : far from rigid imposing indifferent customs on the one side ; from contumacy in opposing meer indifferencies on the other . which judgement of ambrose , augustine saith , he alwayes looked on as often as he thought of it , tanquam caeleste oraculum , as an oracle come from heaven ; and concludes with this excellent speech , which if ever god intend peace to his church , he will make men understand : sensi enim saepe dolens & gemens , mult as infirmorum perturbationes fieri per quorundam fr●trum contentiosam obstinationem , & superstitiosam timiditatem ; qui in rebus hujusmodi , quae neque scripturae sanctae autoritate , neque universal is ecclesiae traditione , neque vitae corrigendae utilitate ad certum possunt terminum pervenire ( perducere ▪ ) tantum quia subest quàliscunque ratiocinatio cogitantis , aut quia in suâ patriâ sic ipse consuevit , aut quia ibi vidis ubi peregrinationem suam quò remotiorem à suis , eò doctiorem factam putat , tam litigiosas excitant qu estiones ut nisi quod ipsi faciunt , nihil rectum existiment . i have often , saith he , found it to my grief and sorrow , that the troubles of weaker christian● , have been caused by the contentious obstinacy of some on the one hand , and the superstitious fearfulnesse of others on the other ▪ in things which are neither determin'd by the authority of the holy scriptures , nor by the custome of the universall church , nor yet by any usefulnesse of the things themselves , in order to the making mens lives better ; only for some petty reason in a mans own mind , or because it hath been the custome of their countrey● or because they have found in those churches , which they have thought to be the nearer to truth , the further they have been from home , they are continually raising such quarrels and contentions , that they think nothing is right and lawfull , but what they do themselves . had that blessed saint lived in our age , he could not have utter'd any thing more true , nor more pertinent to our present state : which methinks admirers of antiquity should embrace for its authority , and others for the great truth and reason of it . did we but set up those three things as judges between us in our matters of ceremonies , the authority of the scriptures , the practise of the primitive universal church , and the tendency of them to the reforming mens lives ; how soon might we shake hands , and our controversies be at an end ! but as long as contentious obstinacy remains on one side , and a superstitious fearfulnesse on the other ( for superstition may as well lye in the imagined necessity of avoiding things indifferent , as in the necessary observing of things which are not ) we may find our storms increase , but we are not like to see any land of peace . how happy might we be , did men but once understand that it was their duty to mind the things of peace ! how little of that dust might still and quiet our most contentious frayes ! hi motus animorum , atque haec certamina tanta pulveris exigui jactu compressa quiescunt . but in order to so happy and desireable an union and accommodation , i shall not need to plead much from the nature of the things we differ about ; the lownesse of them in comparison of the great things we are agreed in , the fewnesse of them in comparison of the multitude of those weighty things we ought most to look after , the benefits of union , the miseries of division , which if our lamentable experience doth not tell us of , yet our consciences may ; i shall crave leave humbly to present to serious consideration some proposalls for accommodation : which is an attempt which nothing but an earnest desire of peace can justifie , and i hope that will : which here falls in ●s the third step of my designed discourse , about the bounds to be set in the restraint of christian-liberty , the first is , that nothing be imposed as necessary , but what is clearly revealed in the word of god. this there is the highest reason and equity for , since none can have command immediately over conscience , but god himself , and what ever is imposed as necessary , doth immediately bind conscience . and whatever binds mens conscience● with an opinion of the necessity of it , doth immediately destroy that christian-liberty which men are necessarily bound to stand fast in , and not be intangled with any yoke of bondage . not only the yoke of jewish ceremonies , but whatever yoke pincheth , and galls as that did , with an opinion of the necessity of doing the thing commanded by any but the word of god. which the apostle calls dogmatizing , coloss. . and v. . let no man judge you in meat and drink ; nè praepositi quidem vestri , saith whitaker ; these impositions he calls v. . the commandments and doctrines of men . and such he calls a snare , corinth . . . which was the making an indifferent thing , as coelibate , necessary . laqueus est quicquid praecipitur ut necessarium , quod liberum esse debet . so that though obedience be necessary to ind●fferent things when commanded ; yet it must alwayes be liber â conscientiâ , quoad res ipsas legum , no obligation to be laid upon conscience to look upon the things as necessary . secondly , that nothing be required , nor determin'd , but what is sufficiently known to be indifferent in its own nature . the former proposall was in reference to the manner of imposing , this respects the nature of the things themselves . the only difficulty here is , how a thing may be sufficiently known to be indifferent ; because one man looks upon that as indifferent , which another doth not . the most equal way to decide this controversie , is to make choyce of such judges as are not interested in the quarrel : and those are the sense of the primitive church in the first centuries , who were best able to judge whether they looked upon themselves as bound by any command of scripture or no ; and withall the judgement of the reformed churches : so that what shall be made appear to be left indifferent , by both the sense of the primitive church , and the churches of the reformation , may be a matter determinable by law , and which all may be required to conform in obedience to . thirdly , that whatever is thus determined be in order only to a due performance of what is in general required in the word of god , and not to be looked on as any part of divine worship or service . this is that which gives the greatest occasion of offence to mens consciences , when any thing is either required ; or if not , yet generally used and looked on as a necessary part or concomitant of gods worship , so that without it the worship is deemed imperfect . and there is great difference to be made between things indifferent in their own nature , and indifferent as to their use and practise . and when the generality of those who use them do not use them as indifferent , but as necessary things , it ought to be considered , whether in this case such a use be allowable till men be better informed of the nature of the things they do . as in the case of the papists about image-worship , their divines say , that the images are only as high teners of devotion , but the worship is fixed on god ; but we find , it is quite otherwise in the general pract●se of people who look at nothing beyond the image . so it may be , bating the degrees of the offence , when matters of indifferency in themselves are by the generality of people not looked on as such , but used as a necessary part of divine service . and it would be considered whether such an abuse of matters supposed indifferent being known , it be not scandalum datum to continue their use without an effectual remedy for the abuse of them . fourthly , that no sanctions be made , nor mulcts or penalties be inflicted on such who only dissent from the use of some things whose lawfulnesse they at present scruple , till sufficient time and means be used for their information of the nature and indifferency of the things , that it may be seen whether it be out of wilfull contempt and obstinacy of spirit , or only weaknesse of conscience and dissatisfaction concerning the things themselves that they disobey . and if it be made evident to be out of contempt , that only such penalties be inflicted as answers to the nature of the offence ; i am sure it is contrary to the primitive practise , and the moderation then used , to suspend or deprive men of their ministerial function for not conforming in habits , gestures , or the like . concerning habits , walafridus strabo expresly tells us , there was no distinction of habits used in the church in the primitive times . vestes sacerdotales per incrementa ad eum ▪ qui nunc habetur , aucta sunt ornatum . nam primis temporibus communi vestimento induti , missas agebant , sicut & hactenus quidam orientalium facere perhibentur . and therefore the concilium gangrense condemned eustathius sebastenus for making a necessity of diversity of habits among christians for their profession , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it being acknowledged both by salma sius and his great adversary petavius , that in the primitive times the presbyters did not necessarily wear any distinct habit from the people , although the former endeavours to prove , that commonly they did in tertullians time ; but yet that not all the presbyters , nor they only did use a distinct habit , viz. the pallium philosophicum , but all the christians who did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as socrates said of sylvanus rhet●r , all that were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 among them , stricter professors of christianity ; among which most of the presbyters were . and origen in eusebius expresly speaks of heraclas a presbyter of alexandria , that for a long time 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he used only the common garment belonging to christians , and put on the pallium philosophicum for the study of the grecian learning , after that christianity began to lose in height what it got in breadth : instead of the former simplicity of their garments as well as manners , and their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 came in the use of the byrri , penulae dalmaticae , and so daily increasing , as strabo saith . i say not this in the least to condemn any distinction of habit for meer decency and order , but to shew it was not the custome of the primitive times to impose any necessity of these things upon men , nor to censure them for bare disuse of them . he must be a great stranger in the primitive church that takes not notice of the great diversity of rites and customs used in particular churches , without any censuring those who differed from them ; or if any by inconsiderate zeal did proceed so far , how ill it was resented by other christians . as victor's excommunicating the quarto-decimani , for which he is so sharply reproved by irenaeus , who tells him , that the primitive christians who differed in such things , did not use to abstain from one anothers communion for them ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; as socrates tells us ; those that agree in the same faith , may differ among themselves in their rites and customs , as he largely shews in a whole chapter to that purpose ; as , in the observation of easter , some on the fourteenth day of april , others only upon the lords day , but some of the more eastern churches differed from both . in their fasts , some observed lent but for one day , some two , some three weeks , some six weeks , other seven : and in their fasts some abstained from all kind of living creatures , others only from fresh , eating fish , and others ●oul : others abstained from fruit and eggs : others eat only dry bread , others not that neither . and so for their publick assemblies ; some communicating every lords day , others not . the church of alexandria had its publick meetings and sermons every fourth day of the week , as he tells us . the same church made the publick readers and interpreters , either of the catechumeni , or of the baptized , differing therein from all other churches . several customes were used about digamy , and the marriage of ministers in several churches . so about the time of baptism , some having only one set time in the year for it , as at easter in t●h●ssaly ; others two , easter , and dominica in albis , so call'd from the white garments of the baptized . some churches in baptism used three dippings , others only one . great differences about the time of their being catechumeni , in some places longer , in others a shorter time . so about the excommunicate , and degrees of penance ( as they are call'd ) their flentes , audientes , succumbentes , consistentes , the communio peregrinae , the several chrismes in vertice , in pectore , in some places at baptism , in some after . so for placing the altar ( as they metaphorically called the communion table ) it was not constantly towards the east ; for socrates affirms , that in the great church at antiochia , it stood to the west end of the church ; and therefore it had 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a different positure from other churches . and eusebius saith out of the panegyrist , that in the new church built by paulinus at tyre , the altar stood 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the middle . these things may suffice for a taste at present , of which more largely elsewhere ( god willing ) in due time . we see the primitive christians did not make so much of any uniformity in rites and ceremonies ; nay i scarce think any churches in the primitive times can be produced , that did exactly in all things observe the same customes : which might especially be an argument of moderation in all , as to these things , but especially in pretended admirers of the primitive church . i conclude with a known saying of austin , indignum est ut propter ea quae nos deo neque digniores , neque indigniores possunt facere , alii alios vel condemnemus , vel judicemus . it is an unworthy thing for christians to condemn and judge one another for those things which do not further us at all in our way to heaven . lastly , that religion be not clogg'd with ceremonies . they when multiplied too much , if lawful , yet strangely eat out the heart , heat , life , vigour of christianity . christian religion is a plain , simple , easie thing . christ commends his yoke to us by the easiness of it , and his burden by the lightness of it . it was an excellent testimony which amm. marcellinus a heathen gave to christianity , when speaking of constantius , religionem christianam rem absolutam & simplicem a●●li superstitione confudit , that he spoiled the beauty of christianity , by musting it up in superstitious observations . and it is as true which erasmus said in answer to the sorbonists , quò magis in corporalibus ceremoniis haeremus , hoc magis vergimus ad iudaismum . external ceremonies teach us backward , and bring us back from christ to moses ; which is fully proved as to the papists , by our learned rainolds and mr. de croy : but we need no further evidence then a bare perusal of durandus mimatensis his rationale divinorum officiorum . by ceremonies , i mean not here matters of meer decency and order , for order sake ; which doubtless are lawful ( if the measure of that order be not the pomp and glory of the world , but the gravity , composure , sobriety , which becomes christianity ) for when the jews were the most strictly tyed up by a ceremonial law , they did introduce many things upon the account of order and decency : ás the building synagogues , their hours of prayer , their parashoth and haphtaroth , the sections of the law and prophets ; the continuation of the passover fourteen days by hezekiah , when the law required but seven : the feast of purim by esther and mordecai : the fasts of the . . moneth under the captivity ; the feast of dedication by the maccabees . the use of baptism in proselyting , washing the feet before the passeover , imitated and practised by our saviour : so that matters of order and decency are allowable and fitting ; but ceremonies properly taken for actions significative , and therefore appointed because significative , their lawfulness may with better ground be scrupled . or , taking ceremony , in bellarmines description of it , to be actio externa , quae non aliunde est bona & laudabilis , nisi quia fit ad deum colendum : and in this sense it will be hard to manifest any thing to be lawful , but what is founded upon a divine precept ; if it be not a matter of order , and so no ceremony . and as for significative ceremonies , concerning matter of doctrine or fact , a learned dr. puts us in mind of the old rule , that they be paucae & salubres , and the fewer , the more wholesome : for , as he observes from aristotle in insect●le animals , the want of blood was the cause they run out into so many legs . i shall conclude this whole discourse with another speech of s. austin , very pertinen● to our present purpose . omnia itaque talia quae neque sanctarum scripturarum autoritatibus continentur , nec in con●iliis episcoporum statuta inveniuntur , nec consuetudine universae ecclesiae roborata sunt , sed diversorum locorum diversis moribus innumerabiliter variantur , ita ut vix aut omnino nunquam inveniri possint causae , quas in eis instituendis secuti sunt homines , ubi facultas tribuitur , sine ulla dubitatione resecanda existimo . all such things which are neither founded on the authority of the scriptures , nor determined by general councils ( for so he must be understood ) nor practised by the catholick church , but vary according to the customes of places , of which no rational account can be given ; ●ssoon as men have power to do it , i judge them to be cut off without any scruple : for which definitive sentence of his , he gives this most sufficient reason ; quamvis enim neque hoc inveniri possit , quomodo contra fidem sint ; ipsam tamen religionem ( quam paucissimis & manifestissimis celebrationem sacramentis misericordia . dei liberam esse voluit ) servilibus oneribus premunt , ut tolerabilior sit conditio . iudaeorum , qui etiamsi tempus libertatis non agnoverint , legalibus tamen sarcinis , non humanis praesumptionibus subjiciuntur : for although we cannot positively say , how such things as these do manifestly i●●pugn our faith , yet in that they load our religion with such servile burdens , ( which the mercy of god hath left free for all other observations , but the celebration of some few and most clear sacraments ) that they make our condition worse then that of the iews ; for they , although strangers to gospel liberty , had no burdens charged upon them by the constitutions of men , but only by the law and commands of god : which sentence and reason of his , i leave to the most impartial judgement of every true sober ▪ minded christian. and thus i am at last come through this field of thorns and thistles ; i hope now to find my way more plain and easie . so much for the fourth hypothesis . the two next will be discharged with lesser trouble . hypoth . . what is left undetermined both by divine positive laws , and by principles deduced from the natural law , if it be determined by lawful authority in the church of god , doth bind the conscience of those who are subject to that authority , to obedience to those determinations . i here suppose , that the matter of the law be something not predetermined ▪ either by the law of nature , or divine positive law● ; for against either of these no humane law can bind the conscience : for if there be any moral evil in the thing commanded , we are bound to obey god rather than men ; in which case , we do not formally and directly disobey the magistrate , but we chuse to obey god before him . and , as we have already observed , a former obligation from god or nature destroys a latter ; because god hath a greater power and authority over mens consciences , then any humane authority can have : and my obedience to the magistrate being founded upon a divine law , it must be supposed my duty to obey him first , by virtue of whose authority i obey another ; then , the other whom i obey , because the former hath commanded me . if i am bound to obey an inferiour magistrate , because the supreme requires it ; if the inferiour command me any thing contrary to the will and law of the supreme , i am not bound to obey him in it , because both the derives his power of commanding , and i my obligation to obedience , from the authority of the supreme , which must be supposed to do nothing against it self . so it is between god and the supreme magistrate ; by him kings reign ; god when he gives them a legislative power , doth it cumulativè non privativè , not so as to deprive himself of it , nor his own laws of a binding force against his ; so that no law of a magistrate can in reason bind against a positive law of god. but what is enacted by a lawful magistrate , in things left undetermined by gods laws , doth even by virtue of them bind men to obedience , which require subjection to the higher powers for conscience sake . so that whatsoever is left indifferent , obedience to the magistrate in things indifferent is not : and if we are not bound to obey in things undetermin'd by the word , i would ●ain know wherein we are bound to obey them ? or what distinct power of obligation belongs to the authority the magistrate hath over men ? for all other things we are bound to already by former laws ; therefore either there must be a distinct authority without power to oblige , or else we are effectually bound to whatsoever the magistrate doth determine in lawful things . and if it be so in general , it must be so as to all particulars contained in that general , and so in reference to matters of the church , unless we suppose all things concerning it to be already determined in scripture : which is the thing in question , and shall be largely discussed in its due place . sixthly . hypoth . . things undetermined by the divine law , natural and positive , and actually determined by lawful authority , are not thereby made unalterable , but may be revoked , limited , and changed , according to the different ages , tempers , inclinations of men , by the same power which did determine them . all humane constitutions are reversible by the same power which made them : for the obligation of them , not arising from the matter of them , but from the authority of the person binding , are consequently alterable , as shall be judged by that power most sutable to the ends of its first promulgation . things may so much alter , and times change , that what was a likely way to keep men in unity and obedience at one time , may only inrage them at another : the same physick which may at one time cure , may at another only inrage the distemper more . as therefore the skill of a physitian lies most in the application of physick to the several tempers of his patients : so a wise magistrate , who is , as nicias said in thucydides , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the physitian to cure the distempers of the body politick ; and considers ( as spartian tells us adrian used to say in the senate , ita se rempub. gesturum , ut sciret populirem esse , non propriam ) that the peoples interest is the main care of the prince , will see a necessity of altering , reforming , varying many humane constitutions , according as they shall tend most to the ends of government , either in church or state. thence it is said of the several laws of nature , divine , and humane ; that lex naturae potest poni , sed non deponi , lex divina nec poni nec deponi , lex humana & poni & deponi . the law of nature may be laid down ( as in case of marriage with sisters in the beginning of the world ) but not laid aside ; the law of god can neither be laid down , nor laid aside ; but humane laws , both may be laid down , and laid aside . indeed , the laws of the medes and persians , are said to be unalterable , but ( if it be meant in the sense it is commonly understood in ) yet that very law which made them unalterable ( for they were not so of their own nature ) was an alterable law , and so was whatever did depend upon it . i conclude then , whatever is the subject of humane determination , may lawfully be alter'd and changed , according to the wisdome and prudence of those in whose hands the care of the publick is . thus then , as those things which are either of natural or christian liberty , are subjected to humane laws and restraints , so those laws are not irreversible ; but if the fences be thrown down by the same authority which set them up , whatever was thereby inclosed , returns to the community of natural right again . so much for these hypotheses , which i have been the longer in explaining and establishing , because of the great influence they may have upon our present peace , and the neer concernment they have to this whole discourse , the whole fabrick of which is erected upon these foundations . chap. iii. how far church government is founded upon the law of nature . two things in it founded thereon . . that there must be a society of men for the worship of god. . that this society be governed in the most convenient manner . a society for worship manifested , gen. . . considered . the sons of god , and the sons of men , who ? societies for worship among heathens evidenced by three things . . solemnity of sacrifices ; sacrificing how far natural ; the antiquity of the feast of first-fruits , largely discovered . . the original of festivals for the honour of their deities . . the secrecy and solemnity of their mysteries . this further proved from mans sociable nature , the improvement of it by religion , the honor redounding to god by such a society for his worship . having now laid our foundation , we proceed to raise a superstructure upon it . and we now come closely to inquire how far government in the church is founded upon an unalterable divine right ? that we have found to be built upon a double foundation , the dictates of the law of nature , and divine positive laws . we shall impartially inquire into both of them , and see how far church-government is setled upon either of these two . i begin then with the law of nature . two general things , i conceive , are of an unalterable divine right in reference to this : first , that there be a society and joyning together of men for the worship of god : secondly , that this society be governed , preserved , and maintained in a most convenient manner . first , that there must be a society of men joyning together for the worship of god. for the dictate of nature being common to all , that god must be served , nature requires some kind of mutual society for the joynt performance of their common duties . an evidence of which dictate of nature , appears in the first mention we find of any publick society ; so that a society for religious worship was as ancient as the first civil societies we have any records of . nay , the very first publick society we read of , was gathered upon this account . for we read in the early days of the world that the charter for this society was soon made use of , gen. . . in the days of enosh men began to call upon the name of the lord. now enosh was seths son , whom adam had given to him in the place of abel ; and assoon as the number of men did increase , that men grew into societies , they then had their publike societies for gods worship . for we cannot understand that place absolutely , as though god had not been called on before , but now he was called on more signally and solemnly ; when men were increased that they began to imbody themselves into societies , coepit congregare populum ad tractandum simul dei cu●tum , saith pererius . tunc coeptum est populariter coli deus , mariana . invocare , i. e. palam colere , emanuel sa. relating all to the publike societies being then gathered for the worship of the true god. from which time in all probability did commence that title of those who joyned in those societies that they were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the sons of god which we read of soon after . gen. . . as they are distinguished from the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sons of men : which titles as i am far from understanding in the sense of the fathers taking them for the angels , ( which in likely-hood they took from that supposititious piece going under the name of enochs prophesie ) ; so i cannot understand them as commonly they are taken , for meer discretive titles of the posterity of seth and cain ; as though all that came of seth were the sons of god , and all of cain were the sons of men . for as there certainly were many bad of seths posterity , because the flood destroyed all of them , noah only and his family excepted : so there might be some good of the other , vice being no more enta●ld then vertue is ; and jewels may sometimes lye in a heap of dung : and so this name of the sons of god might be appropriated to those who joyned themselves to those societies for gods worship . in which sense some understand the very words of the text 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 then began men to be called by the name of the lord : which i suppose is the sense of aquila who thus renders the place , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , although it be brought by dionys. vossius to justifie the former interpretation of the words . this sense , if the construction of the words will bear it ( which drusius questions , but others are much for it , and theodoret , the french , and piscator so render it ) seems most genuine and natural ; and not at all impugning what i have formerly gathered from the words , but implying it ; for this distinction of names and titles did argue a distinction of societies among them . i am not ignorant that the generality of jewish expositors and many of their followers , do carry the sense of the words quite another way , from the ambiguity of the signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which may be interpreted as well to prophane as begin , and so they read it , tunc prophanatum est ad invocandum nomen domini , then men prophaned the name of the lord : and accordingly maimonides begins idolatry 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the dayes of enosh . but the words will scarce bear this construction , as vossius upon him observes ; and besides , there is no mention at all of the name of any false gods , but only of the true one . so much then for the first originall of this society for religion , which we see began assoon as there was matter for a society to be gathered up of . some indeed derive this society a great deal higher ; and because we read that abel and cain brought their sacrifices , they thence infer , that it was to adam , who was the publike priest then , and performed all publike duties of worship in his own person , and so was indeed occumenicall bishop of the whole world , and yet had but four persons or but few more for his charge . such a diocess we might be content to allow him that pleads for the same office , and derives his title somewhat higher then adam ; for pope boniface the eighth proved there must be but one chief priest , and so one pope , because it is said , gen. . . that god created the world in principio , not in principiis ; mark the number ; therefore there must be but one beginning , and so one bishop , and not many . what excellent disputants an infallible ▪ chair makes men ! much good may his argument do him . as a further evidence , how much nature dictates that such a society there should be for divine worship , we shall inquire into the practise of men in their dispersion after the flood . and what we find unanimously continued among them , under such gross idolatry as they were given to , and which did arise not from their idolatry as such , but from the general nature of it as a kind of worship , we have reason to look upon as one of those planks which hath escaped the common shipwrack of humane nature by the fall of man. and so though that argument from the generall consent of nations owning a way of worship though a false one , in order to the proving the existence of god be slighted by some , yet there is this double evidence in it to prove it , more then is generally taken notice of , and beyond the bare testimony its self given by that consent . first , from mens being so easily imposed upon by false religions , in that they are so soon gull'd into idolatry ; it argues there are some jewels in the world , or else men would never be deceived with counterfeits ; it argues that a child hath a father , who is ready to call every one that comes to him , father ; so it argues there is some naturall instinct in men towards the worship of god , when men are so easily brought to worship other things instead of god. we see no other creatures can be so imposed upon ; we read of no idolatry among the brutes , nor that the bees though they have a king and honour him , did ever bow their knees to baal , or worship the hive instead of him . if men had no journeys to go , others need not be sworn as the athenians were , not to put them out of their way . if there were no inclinableness to religion , all cautions against idolatry were superfluous : there is then from mens proness to error , as to the person and object of worship , an evidence of naturall 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an instinct within towards the act of worship ; and as when i see sheep flock together , even in their wandrings , i may easily gather that though they are out of their proper pastures , yet they are of a tame and sociable nature ; so when we see societies for worship were preserved among men after they were degenerated into idolatry ; it is an evident argument that such associating together for the generall nature of the act , doth flow from the nature of man. secondly ▪ all mens agreeing in some kind of worship , though differing as to the object and manner of it , is an evidence it comes from nature , because it plainly evinces it could be nothing taken up out of design , received by custome , nor convey'd by tradition , because even among those whose interests and designs have been contrary to one another , and could have no mutuall compacts to deceive their people , have all agreed in this thing , though almost in all other things they have strangely differ'd . all other customs and traditions , are either changed , or lost among severall nations ; as the rude barbarous northern nations , that in their inrodes and incursions upon other places , have left in process of time , almost all other customs but only their religion behind them . this sticks closer then saladines black shirt , or the old monks cloathes , which they put not off till they dyed , nay even those nations , who openly , and as by a law , violate the other received dictates of nature , do yet maintain and hold up this . those that have had the least of commerce and converse with civilized people , have yet had their societies for worship : and when they could find no gods to worship , they would rather make then want them . the egyptians would rather spoyl their sallets then be without gods ; and they that whipt their gods , yet had them still . they who had no sense of another life , yet would pray to their gods for the good things of this : and they that would not pray that the gods would do them good , yet would that they might do them no hurt : so that in the most prodigious idolatry , we have an argument for religion ; and in the strange diversities of the wayes of worship , we have an evidence how naturall a society for worship is . this , to shew the validity and force of the argument drawn from consent of nations , even in their idolatry . three things i shall evidence these societies for worship among the heathens by ; the solemnity of their sacrifices , their publick festivals , and their secret mysteries , all which were instituted peculiarly in honour of their gods : it being necessary in such societies for worship to have some particular rites , whereby to testifie the end of such societies to be for the honour of their deity ; and to distinguish those solemnities from all other . first then for sacrifices ; paulus burgensis observing how this custome spread all the world over , concludes from thence that it was naturall to men . in qualibet aetate , & apud quaslibet hominum nationes , semper fuit aliqua sacrificiorum oblatio . quod autem est apud omnes , naturale est . thus far i confesse sacrificing naturall , as it was a solemn and sensible rite of worship ; but if he meant by that , the destroying of some living creatures to be offered up to god , i both deny the universall practice of it , and its being from the dictate of nature : and i rather believe with fortunius licetus , that it was continued down by tradition , from the sacrifices of cain and abel before the flood , or rather from noahs after ; which might the easier be , because nature dictating there must be some way of worship , and it being very agreeable to nature it should be by sensible signs , all nations having no other rule to direct them , were willing to observe that rite and custome in it , which was conveyed down to them from their progenitors ; but let us see what reason burgensis gives ; ratio naturalis dictat , ut secundum naturalem inclinationem , homines ei quod est supra omnes , subjectionem exhibeant , secundum modum homini convenientem . qui quidem modus est , ut sensibilibus signis utatur , ad exprimendum interiorem conceptum , sicut ex sensibilibus cognitionem accipit invisibilium . unde ex naturali ratione procedit , quod homo sensibilibus signis utatur , offerens eas deo in signum subjectionis & honoris ad similitudinem eorum qui dominis suis aliquid offerunt in recognitionem dominii . but all this will extend no further , then that it is very agreeable to naturall reason , that as man attains the knowledge of invisible things by visible , so he should expresse his sense of invisible things by some visible signs , thereby declaring subjection to god as his lord and master ; as tenants expresse their homage to their lord by offering something to them . and i withall acknowledge , that as to oblations without blood , they seem indeed very naturall : whence we shall somewhat largely discover the antiquity of the feasts of first-fruits , which were the clearest acknowledgement of their dependance upon god , and receiving these things from him . aristotle tells us , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . that the most ancient sacrifices and assemblies appear to have been upon the in-gathering of fruits , such as the sacrifices of first-fruits to the gods were . to the same purpose porphyrius , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the first sacrifices were of first-fruits . and horace , agricolae prisci fortes , parvoque beati condita post frumenta , levantes tempore festo corpus , & ipsum animum spe finis dura ferentes , cum sociis operum & pueris & conjuge fidâ , tellurem porco , sylvanum lacte piabant . although he be not so expresse for offering the very fruits of the earth ; yet it is evident from him , that their great festivals in honour of their gods ; were immediately after harvest , and that they had great assemblies for that purpose , and did then solemnly sacrifice . and from these solemnities came the original of tragedies and comedies , as horace intimates , and is largely shewed by isaac casaubon in his treatise de satyricâ poesi . but to fetch this yet a little higher , and so bring it downwards ; the first sacrifice we read of in scripture , was this of the fruits of the earth ( unlesse the skins which adam cloathed himself with , were of the beasts sacrificed , as some conjecture : ) cains sacrifice was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an oblation of the fruits of the earth : in all probability the first-fruits , as abel offered the first-born of the cattel to the lord : this seems to have been at some solemn time of sacrificing , which is implyed in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 at the end of dayes . in process of time we render it ; but the jews understand it at the end of the year : dayes in scripture being often put for years ; which interpretation if we follow , we find a very early observation of the anniversary festival of first-fruits ; but however this be , we have by unquestionable tradition , that no festival was more anciently , nor more universally observed , then this of offering the first fruits to god of their increase . the jews were bound up so strictly to it by their law , leviticus . . that they were to eat nothing of their crop till the offering of first-fruits was made . and porphyrius tells us out of hermippus , that one of the laws made for the athenians by triptolemus , was , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to feast the gods with their fruits : of which xenocrates there gives a twofold reason ; sense of gratitude to the gods , and the easiness at all times to offer up these ; by which he supposed the custome would continue longer . draco afterwards puts this among his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , his unalterable laws , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to worship their gods with their first-fruits . besides which , for other greeks we have the testimony of plutarch , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the most of the grecians , saith he , in their most ancient sacrifices did use barley , the first fruits being offered by the citizens : and therefore the opuntii called their chief priest 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because he gathered in the first-fruits . the manner of offering the first-fruits among them , was much of the same nature with the mincha among the jews , which was of fine flower mingled with oyl for a burnt-offering to the lord : the word there used implyes the bruising the ears of corn in a morter , because they were as yet moist , and could not be ground hard as corn was . whence , because it was not all brought to flower , the cake was call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . it is called by the sept●agint 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so i suppose it should be read , which in our great bibles is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and it is call'd by the greeks 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which word is frequently used by homer , and apollonius rhodius , whom i forbear to transcribe ; it being so obvious ; which is expounded both by the excellent scholiast on apollonius , and by eustathius and the short scholiast on homer , to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . barley and salt mixed together . to which among the romans the mola salsa answered , of which festus : est far tostum & sale conspersum , as the mincha under the law , was alwayes salted with salt , levit. . . this mola salsa among the romans , had originally relation to the first-fruits : for the custome of offering up first-fruits among them , was as ancient as their institution of religious rites ; as pliny fully informs us , numa instituit deos fruge colere , & molâ salsâ supplicare ; atque ut autor est hemina , far torrere : which likewise answers to the jewish mincha , which was to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 tosta in igne , parched in the fire : for which purpose numa instituted the fornacalia , which were farris torrendi feriae , the feasts of first-fruits among them , the parching the corn being in order thereto , for as pliny adds , ac ne ●egustabant novas fruges , aut vina antequam sacerdotes primitias libassent : which may be exactly rendred in the very words of the law , leviticus . . but though the mola salsa came originally from hence , it afterwards came to be used in most sacrifices , thence the word immolare to sacrifice , again parallel to the mincha accessorium , as some call it among the jews , which was used in other sacrifices ; and was distinct from the mincha per se , which of it self was an oblation to the lord. from this offering up bruised corn , some derive the name of ceres from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifies as much , and was required , leviticus . . thence ovid l. met. primitias frugum cereri , sua vina ●yaeo . but besides ceres , they offered their first fruits among the greeks to hora , diana , apollo , vesta , as may be seen in meursius in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . thus we see how these three nations did agree not only in the observation of the feast of first-fruits , but very much in the ceremonies of their offering too . only this difference may be observed between them , the romans did mix their mola salsa with water , the jews their mincha with oyl only ; the greeks did not bruise the corn in their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but only mixed salt with the grains of corn. but the jews and romans bo●h brui●ed and parched it , before they offered it up for the first-fruits . thus much to shew the antiquity and observation of the offering up of the first-fruits among the most ancient and civilized nations . which though it may seem a digression , yet i hope not wholly unacceptable , it being likewise the offering of my first-fruits , and therefore the more seasonable . proceed we now to other festivall-solemnities to see what evidences of a society for worship we find in them . and for this , it is apparent that the first originall of festivals among the heathen was for the honour of the gods. upon which account a grave and prudent author accounts the observation of some festivalls naturall ; because nature doth dictate the necessity of some society for the worship of god. for thus strabo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . it was the custome of all nations ( who are comprehended under his words ) to have festival days for the honour of their gods , which nature its self dictates . hence the greeks , as athenaeus observes , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , used to say , that their gods beg'd them all their play-days . after telling us of the mirth and jollity used after their sacrifices , which was alwayes the second course at these festivalls , thence the jews called their high festival days 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 good days , or days of mirth . we read of few nations but had these festival solemnities for the honour of their gods. the persians had theirs for their god mithras : the babylonians , saith athenaeus out of berosus , had their feast sacaea , which casaubon would have called sesacaea , because babylon in scripture is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sesac , as the ludi romani were from rome . it is to no purpose to mention the festivals observed by the greeks and romans in honour of their gods , being so many , that whole books have been composed of them . that which i observe from hence , is , that societies for the worship of god are natural ; because of their solemn resting from their ordinary labour upon days appointed for the honour of their gods : thereby shewing , they looked upon those as peculiar days , and themselves as peculiar societies upon those days , from what they were at other times . one thing more evidenceth this among them ; their solemn and secret mysteries , which were societies on purpose , as pretended , for this very end , in honor of their gods. their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as they were wont to call them , preserved with the greatest secrecy by the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . their great and lesser eleusinian , samothracian , cotyttian , mithriacal mysteries , to which none were admitted without passing through many degrees , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , before they came to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 perfectly initiated . wherein they were much imitated by the christians in the celebration of the lords supper , about the fourth or fifth century , as is largely showed by casaubon in a most learned diutriba on this subject in his exercitations ; to which i refer the reader . we see what strict rules they had for admission of any into these pretendedly sacred , but truly most impious societies . in those of mithras , as suidas and nonnus tell us , they passed through eighty degrees , before they were throughly initiated , and seldome escaped with life . however , we may gain from them this general notion , that they looked on a peculiar distinct society , as necessary for the worship and honor of the deity they served . thus we see à posteriori how a distinct society for gods worship appears to be a dictate of nature . we shall now see if we can evidence à priori , that it is a dictate of nature , that there must be some society for the worship of god. three things will make that appear . first , the sociableness of mans nature . man is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a creature that loves to herd it self with those of his own kind , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . if a man had all other comforts of life , and wanted society , he would not think his life worth leading , as aristotle observes , who further takes notice of the sociableness of mans nature , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , from the general commendation that is given to courteous and affable men . i deny not , but in the entring into a civil state or society , either fear , or profit , might be a main inducement to it ; but though it be an inducement , yet there must be supposed an inclinableness to a society ; or a commonwealth might be assoon set up among tygers , as men. so that they have very little ground of reason , who from the external inducements of fear , or profit , in entring into civil societies , do conclude against the sociableness of mans nature . if then mans nature be sociable in all other things , then nature will tell men , they ought to be so in things of common concernment to them all , and which is every ones work or duty , as religion is ; if in other things men are sociable , much more in this : for secondly , religion gives a great improvement to mans sociable nature ; and therefore plutarch well calls religion 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a foundation that knits and joynts societies together . and thence wisely observes , that in the constitution of laws , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : the first and greatest thing to be looked at , is , the religion established , or the opinions men entertain of the gods. to which he subjoyns this excellent reason , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : that it is more impossible for a commonwealth either to be formed or subsist without religion , then a city to si and without foundations . thence , a prudent states-man called religion , the best reason of state. it appears then evidently both from reason and experience , that religion hath a great influence upon the modelling and ordering civil societies , whence , as the same moralist observes , lycurgus did , as it were , consecrate the lacedaemonians with religious rites , as numa the romans , ion the athenians , and deucalion the hellens . whence some half-witted men ( but i know not whether more defective in wit , or grace ) have ( observing the great influence religion hath to keep men in order ) been ready to look upon it as only a politick device , to awe men with greater ease . it is not here a place largely to examine and refute this unworthy pretence . only i adjure them by their onely goddess , reason , to tell me whence come men to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as plutarch expresseth it , to be so easily awed by the hopes and fears of another life more then other creatures are ? why are they at all affected with the discourse of them ? why cannot they shake off the thoughts of these things when they please ? are not men hereby made the most miserable of creatures ? for no other creature can be perswaded that it shall ever quench its thirst in those rivers of pleasures , nor make its bed in everlasting flames . the beasts of sardinia that have their only refreshment by the dew of heaven , yet have never any hopes to ●ome there . the lyon never keeps from his prey by the thoughts and fears of a great tribunal . but suppose onely mankind of all creatures should be liable to be thus imposed on , as is pretended : how comes it to pass that in no age of the world this imposture hath not been discovered , confuted , and shaken off by some people as wise as themselves ? or have there never been any such in the world ? but whence come some men then to be wiser then others ? whence come some to know things which all the reason in the world could never finde out , without revelation ? whence comes a power to doe any thing above the course of nature , if there be nothing but nature ? or are all men deceived that believe such things ? if so , then there must be somewhat that must deceive men ; men would not deceive themselves , and they could not be so long imposed upon by other men ; there must be then some evil spirit must do it ; and whence should that come ? from nature too ? but then whence comes nature its self ? from its self too , or some thing ' else . did it make it self , or was it made by a greater power then it ? if it made its self , it must be and not be at the same time ; it must be as producing , and not be as produced by that act. and what is become of our reason now ? there must be then a supream , eternal , infinite being , which made the world and all in it ; which hath given nature such a touch of its own immortality and dependance upon god , that reason capable of religion is the most proper distinctive character of man from all inferior beings . and this touch and sense being common to the whole nature ; they therefore incline more to one anothers society in the joynt performance of the common duties , due from them to their maker . and so religion not onely makes all other bonds firm ( which without it are nothing , as oaths , covenants , promises , and the like , without which no civill society can be upheld ) but must of its self be supposed especially to tye men in a nearer society to one another ▪ in reference to the proper acts belonging to its self . thirdly , it appears from the greater honour which redounds to god by a sociable way of worship . nature that dictates that god should be worshipped , doth likewise dictate that worship should be performed in a way most for the honour and glory of god. now this tends more to promote gods honour , when his service is own'd a● a publike thing , and men do openly declare and profess themselves his subjects . if the honour of a king lies in the publikely professed and avowed obedience of a multitude of subjects ; it must proportionably promote and advance gods honour more to have a fixed , stated worship , whereby men may in a community and publike society declare and manifest their homage and fealty to the supream governour of the world. thus then we see the light of nature dictates there should be a society and joyning together of men for and in the worship of god. chap. iv. the second thing the law of nature dictates , that this society be maintained and governed in the most convenient manner . a further inquiry , what particular orders for government in the church come from the law of nature . six laid down , and evidenced to be from thence . first , a distinction of some persons , and their superiority over others , both in power and order , cleared to be from the law of nature . the power and application of the power distinguished ; this latter not from any law of nature binding , but permissive : therefore may be restrained . peoples right of chosing pastors considered . order distinguished from the form and manner of government : the former natural , the other not . the second is , that the persons imployed in the service of god , should have respect answerable to their imployment , which appears from their relation to god as his servants ; from the persons imployed in this work before positive laws . masters of families the first priests . the priesthood of the first born before the law discussed : the arguments for it answered . the conjunction of civil and sacred authothority largely shewed , among egyptians , grecians , romans , and others . the ground of separation of them afterwards , from plutarch and others . the second thing which the light of nature dictates , in reference to church-government , is , that the society in which men joyn for the worship of god , be preserved , mantained , and governed in the most convenient manner . nature , which requires society , doth require government in that society , or else it is no society . now we shall inquire what particular orders for government of this society established for the worship of god , do flow from the light of nature , which i conceive are these following . first , to the maintaining of a society , there i● requisite a distinction of persons , and a superiority of power and order , in some over the other . if all be rulers , every man is sui juris , and so there can be no society , or each man must have power over the other , and that brings confusion . there must be some then invested with power and authority over others , to rule them in such things wherein they are to be subordinate to them ; that is , in all things concerning that society they are entered into . two things are implyed in this : first power : secondly order . by power , i mean a right to govern ; by order , the superiority of some as rulers , the subordination of others as ruled . these two are so necessary , that no civil society in the world can be without them : for if there be no power , how can men rule ? if no order , how can men be ruled , or be subject to others as their governours ? here several things must be heedfully distinguished . the power from the application of that power , which we call the title to government . the order it self from the form or manner of government . some of these i assert as absolutely necessary to all government of a society , and consequently of the church , considered without positive laws ; but others to be accidentall , and therefore variable . i say then that there be a governing power in the church of god , is immutable , not onely by vertue of gods own constitution , but as a necessary result from the dictate of nature , supposing a society : but whether this power must be derived by succession , or by a free choice , is not at all determined by the light of nature ; because it may be a lawful power , and derived either way : and the law of nature as binding , onely determines of necessaries . now in civil government , we see that a lawfull title is by succession in some places , as by election in other . so in the church under the law , the power went by lineal descent , and yet a lawful power : and on the other side , none deny ( setting aside positive lawes ) but it might be as lawful by choice and free election . the main reason of this is , that the title or manner of conveying authority to particular persons , is no part of the preceptive obligatory law of nature , but onely of the permissive ; and consequently is not immutable , but is subject to divine or humane positive determinations , and thereby made alterable ▪ and supposing a determination , either by scripture or lawful authority , the exercise of that natural right is so far restrained as to become sinful , according to the third proposition under the . hypoth . and the . hypoth . so that granting at present , that people have the right of choosing their own pastors ; this right being only a part of the permissive law of nature , may be lawfully restrained and otherwise determined , by those that have lawfull authority over the people , as a civil society , according to the . hypoth . if it be pleaded that they have a right by divine positive law , that law must be produced it being already proved , that no bare example , without a declaration by god that such an example binds , doth constitute a divine right which is unalterable . we say then , that the manner of investing church-governours in their authority , is not determined by the law of nature ; but that there should be a power governing , is ( supposing a society ) of the immutable law of nature , because it is that without which no society can be maintained . and this is one of those things which are of the law of nature , not in an abs●lute state of liberty ; but supposing some acts of men which ( once supposed ) become immutable , and indispensable . as supposing propriety , every man is bound to abstain from what is in anothers possession , without his consent , by an immutable law of nature ; which yet supposeth some act of man , viz. the voluntary introducing of propriety by consent : so supposing a society in being , it is an immutable dictate of the law of nature , that a power of government should be maintained and preserved in it . so i say for the second thing , order . this , as it implies the subordination of some in a society to others as their rulers , is immutable and indispensable ; but as to the form whereby that order should be preserved , that is , whether the government should be in the hands of one or more , is no wise determined by the obligatory law of nature ; because either of them may be lawfull and usefull for the ends of government , and so neither necessary by that law : for as to the law of nature , the case is the same in civil and religious societies ; now who will say , that according to the law of nature , any form of government , monarchy , aristocracy , democracy , is unlawfull . these things are then matters of naturall liberty , and not of naturall necessity , and therefore must be examined according to positive determinations of divine and humane lawes , where we shall speak of it . this then is clear as to our purpose , that a power in the church must be constantly upheld and preserved , fitly qualified for the ends of government , is an immutable law ; so that this power be lodged in some particular persons to act as governours , and so distinct from others , as subordinate to them ; but whether the power of government come from people by election , or from pastors by ordination , or from magistrates by commission and delegation ; whether one , two , or all these wayes , is not determined by naturall law , but must be looked for in gods positive laws ; if not there neither to be found , we must acquiesce in what is determined by lawful authority . the same i say again , as to forms of government , whether the power of sole jurisdiction , and ordination , be invested in one person above the rank of presbyters , or be lodged in a colledge acting in a p●rity of power , is a plea must be removed from the court of common law of nature , to the kings bench ; i mean to the positive lawes of god , or the supream power in a common-wealth : there being no statutes in the law of nature to determine it : it must be therefore placitum regis , some positive law must end the controversie . we therefore traverse the suit here , and shall enter it at the other court. the second thing dictated by the law of nature , is , that the persons imployed in the immediate service of god , and entrusted with the power of governing the society appointed for that end , should have respect paid them answerable to the nature of their imployment . this appears to have foundation in the law of nature , being easily deducible from one of the first principles of that law , that god is to be worshipped ; if so , then those whose imployment is chiefly to attend upon himself , ought to have greater reverence then others . by the same reason in nature , that if we do honour the king himself , the nearer any are to the kings person in attendance and imployment , the greater honour is to be shewed them . the ground of which is , that the honour given to servants as such , is not given to their persons , but to their relation , or to the one only upon the account of the other ; and so it doth not fix and terminate upon themselves , but rebounds back , and reflects upon the original and fountain of that honour , the prince himself : so if any be honoured upon the account of their immediate imployment in the service of god , it is god who is chiefly honour'd , and not they ; it being the way men have to expresse their honour to god , by shewing it proportionably and respectively to those who either represent him , or are imployed by him . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as chrysostome speaks in this very case . the honour p●sseth through them to god himself . where he largely proves this very thing from the egyptians sparing the lands of their priests ; and argues at least for an equality of honour , from reason , to be given to those who serve the true god. nay , he is so far from looking upon it as part of their superstition , that he mounts his argument à pari , to one à minori ad majus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is , as much as truth exceeds errour , and the servants of god do the idol-priests ; so much let the honour we give to them , exceed that which was given by the heathen to theirs : but we have a further evidence of the honourablenesse of this imployment , by the light of nature , from the persons imployed in this work , before any positive laws did restrain it : for i say not , that the law of nature doth dictate , that the function of those imployed in this work should be differenced from all other ; that is done by divine positive laws ; but the honour of those in that function is from the law of nature : which appears hence , in that in the eldest times , those who had the greatest authority civil , had likewise the sacred conjoyned with it . for as aristotle rightly observes , that the originall of civil government was from private families : so in those families , before they came to associate for more publike worship , the master of the family was the priest of it . thence we read of noahs sacrificing , abrahams duty to instruct his family , and his own command for offering up his son : we read of iacobs sacrificing , and iobs , and so of others . every master of the family then was the high priest too , and governed his family , not only as such , but as a religious society . afterwards ( from what institution we know not ; but certainly the reason of it , if it were so , was to put the greater honour upon the eldest son ) it is generally conceived , that the first-born had the priesthood of the family in their possession , till the time of the leviticall law. the jewish doctors think that was the birthright which iacob procured from his father , and which abraham gave to isaac , when it is said , that he gave him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 all that he had : for saith postellus , if it be meant in a literall sense , how could he give those gifts to his other sons which are mentioned before ? wherefore he conjectures , by that all , is meant the spiritual knowledge of christ , which he calls intellectus generalis ; which might be more proper to him as priest of the family . but the plain meaning is no more , than , when abraham had bestowed legacies on his other children , he left isaac haredem ex asse , his lawfull heir : i am unwilling to deny a tradition so generally received , among both jewish and christian writers , as the priesthood of the first-born before the law ; but this i say , i cannot yet find any other ground for it but tradition ▪ no place of scripture giving us sufficient evidence for it , and many against it . that which serves sufficiently for the consutation of it , is that observation of theodoret , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ it is to be observed , that the younger are alwayes preferred before the first-born . which he takes notice of from the case he there speaks to of ephraim and manasses ; and so runs it up to abel preferr'd before cain , seth before iapheth , abraham before his elder brethren , isaac before ismael , iacob before esau , iudas and ioseph before reuben , moses before aaron ; and david before the rest of his brethren ; ( although that was after the law ) . that place which gives the greatest countenanc● to the opinion is , numbers . . and thou shalt take the levites for me instead of the first-born : where it seems , that the first-born were formerly the priests , in whose room the levites were taken . but with submission to better judgements , i can see nothing implyed in this place , but only that god having delivered their first-born in egypt , exodus . . and calling for them to be sanctified to him , exodus . . upon the account of the propriety he had in them , in a peculiar manner , by that deliverance ( and not on the account of any speciall service , for many were very unfit for that by reason of age ▪ and which is observable , god requires as well the first-born of beasts both to be sanctified and redeemed , numbers . ) therefore god now setling a way of worship , he gave the israelites liberty to redeem them , and instead of them pitched on the tribe of levi for his own service . another plac● is exodus . . where the young men are mentioned that offered burnt-offering . it is confessed that the chaldee paraphrast and arabick version understand here the first-born ; but however the place implyes no more then that they were employed to bring the sacrifices , for so the septuagint render it . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or else that they were employed as the popae only to kill the sacrifices ; for we see the sprinkling of the blood which was the main thing intended here as a foederal rite , was done by moses himself , who was the high , priest of the people as well as prince , till aaron and his sons were set a part , which was not till exodus . , . and yet aaron was three years elder then moses , exod. . . which is an evidence that aaron as first-born was not the priest ; for till his consecration , moses and not aaron performed the offices of priesthood . thence we read , psalm . . moses and aaron among his priests . for although the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be sometimes attributed to those in civill authority , as samuel . . . compared with chron. . . and sam. . . gen. . . exodus . . iob . . yet there is no ▪ reason so to understand it of moses : and further , the ground why 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was attributed to both prince and priest before the law , was , because the same person might be both ; as the priests of egypt were princes too , gen. . . but for moses , we read not only of the title , but the proper offices of priests attributed to him , as sacrificing , exodus . . consecrating aaron and his sons , exodus . . and therefore aben ezra upon that psalm forecited , calls him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the high priest. this priest-hood of moses leads us to another evidence of the honour of those who were employed in the service of god , which is that when families encreased and many associated into a common-wealth , though the private service might belong to the master of the family , yet the publike , before positive laws restraining it , was most commonly joyned with the civill power . that melchizedek was both king and priest in salem ; if with the jews we conclude he was som ( which we have little reason for ) it will be a greater evidence , sem being then the greatest potentate living . but we passe from him to other nations after the dispersion , to see where the power over religious societies was generally held . in egypt we find that their priests were often made kings , as plutarch observes out of hecataeus , and is confessed by strabo , diodorus , and others . of the greeks the same plutarch gives us a large testimony , that among them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the priesthood was accounted of equal dignity with the kingdom . the same doth aristotle in severall places of his politicks : and particularly of the spartans , of whom herodotus adds , that the priest-hood of iupiter coelestis and lacedaemonius did alwayes belong to the kings own person . for the old latins , virgils anius is sufficient : and among the romans after the powers were separated , the pontifex max. had royal state , his cella'curulis and lictores , as the consuls had , only their priests medled not in civill affairs , of which plutarch gives a double reason ; the impossibility of minding both imployments as they should do , and so must either 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , neglect the worship of the gods , or else 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , wrong the people with the neglect of the administration of justice . the other reason is , because those that were imployed in civill affairs , were put upon execution of justice ; and it was no wayes fit a man should come reeking from the blood of citizens , to go and sacrifice to the gods : this conjunction of civill and sacred power is attested by clemens alexandrinus of the most civilized heathens ; so likewise by synesius of the most ancient nations , by strabo of the ephesians , by the roman historians of the roman emperours , who from augustus to gratian , and some say after , continued the title of pontifex maximus among the rest of the imperiall honours . thus much then may serve to manifest how the honour of those persons who are im 〈…〉 e service of god , and the governme 〈…〉 is a dictate of the law of 〈…〉 chap. v. the third thing dictated by the law of nature , is the solemnity of all things to be performed in this society ; which lies in the gravity of all rites and ceremonies , in the composed temper of mind . gods worship rationall . his spirit destroyes not the use of reason . the enthusiastick spirit discovered . the circumstantiating of fit time and place for worship . the seventh day , on what account so much spoken of by heathens the romans holy dayes . cessation of labour upon them . the solemnity of ceremonies used . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , silence in devotions . exclusion of unfit persons . solemnity of discipline : excommunication among the iews by the sound of a trumpet , amongst christians by a bell. the next thing in reference to religious societies which nature dictates , is , that all things , either pertaining to the immediate worship of god , or belonging to the government of that society , be performed with the greatest solemnity and decency that may be . which dictate ariseth from the nature of the things themselves ; which being most grave and serious , do require the greatest gravity and seriousnesse in the doing of them . and therefore any ceremonies , actions , or gestures , which tend to the discomposing mens spirits , are upon that account to be exploded out of any religious societies , as being so directly repugnant to the nature , design , and performance of religious duties . wherefore that is the standing rule of all instituted ceremonies , by the law of nature in the worship of god , that they be such as tend immediately to the advancing the serenity , tranquillity , and composure of their minds who observe them ; and not such which in their own nature , or by continuall custome of the users of them , do either rarifie mens spirits too much into a superficiall lightnesse and vanity of spirit ; or el●e sink them too much below the command of reason , into the power of unruly passions . a clear and composed spirit , is only fit for converse with things of so high a nature . that region which is nearest heaven , is the freest from clouds and vapours , as well as those dancing meteors , which hover about in a light uncertain motion . it strangely unbecomes the majesty of religious worship to have any thing vulgar , triviall , much more ridiculous in it . the worship of god is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a rationall worship , as well in regard of that real on which should moderate and govern the manner of service , as in regard of those faculties which should be most ●mployed in it ; or the foundation which the service hath upon the dictates of mens naturall reason . and as nature tells us , there should be nothing too light or superficiall , so neither any thing whereby men are carried beyond the bounds of their own reason : for what men do at such a time , is not their own proper act , but is more properly to be ascribed to the power , strength , and excess of a melancholy fancy , or else to a higher enthusiasticall spirit , which then actuates and informs their sancies : and therefore it hath been well observed , as a characteristicall difference between the true propheticall spirit , and the false and counterfeit ; that the one leaves men in the free use of their reason and faculties ; the other alienates them by panick fears , tremblings , and consternations both of body and mind . to which purpose many evidences are brought by a late learned writer , in his discourse of prophecy out of the heathen and christian authors . these latter discovering the vanity of the montanisticall spirit by this one observation : which besides the authors there cited , ( viz. clemens alexandrinus , miltiades in eusebius , ierom and chrysostome ) may appear from epiphanius , who largely and excellently discourseth on this subject , when he discovers the folly of montanus and his followers : and gives this reason why they could be no true prophets ; for those that were so , had 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a great consistency of sense , reason , and discourse ; and instanceth in isaiah and ezekiel : for saith he , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a true prophet had alwayes the free use of his reason and faculties , and spake from the spirit of god with consistency and coherence of discourse . but it was quite otherwise with the m●ntanists , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . they were alwayes trembling both in body and mind ; used no consequence of reason in discourse ; their words had no proper sense , but were all dark , intricate and obscure . an exact description of a late prevailing sect among us , who have their names from those consternations they were wont to fall into , and whose language carries as much obscurity with it , as any of the followers of montanus could wrap up theirs into . only , instead of montanus his paraclete , they tell us of a light within , whose office is much of the same nature with the other ; and one of the great errours of montanus was , the adhering to enthusiasms and revelations beyond and beside the written word ; which is the helena of our late opinionists , because it gives a liberty for venting any conceptions of their own brains , under the pretence and disguise of a light within . but we see hence , how far such tremblings and consternations of body and mind are from a true , sober , prophetick spirit : and how those christians who lived in the time when the spirit of prophe●y had not yet left the church of christ ( as appears by origen , tertullian , and others : ) yet they alwayes looked upon any violent extasie , or fury , as an evidence of a false prophet . and therefore tertullian , when grown a proselyte of montanus , endeavours strongly to remove that apprehension of the exstaticall fury of montanus , and prisca , and maximilla , granting , if it were true , that it was a mark of a false and counterfeit prophetical spirit . the true prophets i grant of old , were by the strength of the impression of their visions upon their animal spirits , sometimes thrown into a fit of trembling ; but then it was not continually so , and when it was , it might be rather a prefent astonishment from so strange and unwonted sight ( as is common in such cases ) or else from the strong apprehension they had of the dismall judgements god threatned to the people ▪ but however , it never took from them the free use of their reason and faculties , which were alwayes conversant about the matters reveased unto them . but as proo●pius gaz●●● observes of the false prophets , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they were acted like mad m●● ▪ which he takes notice of upon occassion o● sa●●● prophe●ying when the evil spirit came upon him ; and interprets with the jewish writers , of a madnesse rather then true prophecy . such as that of cassandra when she is brought in by lycophron , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 utt'ring a strange confused noise , much like unto black sphinx's voice . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith tz●tzes , that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is fully described by lucan , of one pretending enthusiasm : — sub pectore ficta qui●to verba refert , nullo confus a murmure voci● , instinctam sacro mentem testata furore . and soon after , — non rupta trementi verba sono , nec vox antri complere capacis sufficiens spatium — whereby he discovers her , not to be a true enthusiast , because she used not such a strange confused voice and tremblings as they did who were their proper enthusiasts , as the sybils and the pythian prophetess . by this we see , that these earthquakes of violent passions are caused by the prince of the ayr , and not by the gentle breathings of the divine spirit : that these convulsions of mens spirits , are not the consequents of the inhabitation of the good spirit , but of the violent intrusion of the evil one : that that temper of mind is most suitable to religion , which is as well free from the bleaknesse and turbulency of passion , as the saint gleams of lightnesse and vanity . but a further solemnity then this is required by the dictates of nature too , which lyes in the circumstantiating of time and place , and a dedication of both to the end of worship . that these are very consonant to natural reason , appears by the universall consent of all nations agreeing : in any form of the worship of a deity : who have all had their set-times , and fixed places to perform this worship in . i shall not insist as some have done , that the seventh day hath been particularly and solemnly observed for the worship of god by the consent of nations : although there be many probable arguments and plausible testimonies brought for a peculiarity of honour to , if not service on , the seventh-day , out of iosephus , aristobulus , iudaeus ( and by him from linus , hesiod , homer ) clemens alexandrinus , tertullian , lampridius , seneca , tibullus , and many others . from which testimonies , it appears that some kind of reverence and honour was given to the seventh-day ; but whether that day was the seventh of the week , or the seventh of the month ; ( which was consecrated among the greeks to apollo , upon which the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the seventh of every month were observed in honour of him ; ) whether the title of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 did belong to the seventh as one of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , festivall or inauspicious dayes ( for it was common to both ) ? whether observed by any publike religious custome , or by some private superstition , are things too large to inquire into , too difficult now to determine , and not necessary for my present purpose ; it being sufficient in order to that , if they had any set times at all for worship , which shews how solemn the worship of god ought to be . and this is not denyed by any ; it being so necessary a consectary from the duty of worship that there must be a time for performance of it . and not only in generall that there must be some time , but a sufficient proportion of time to be consecrated to the publike exercise of piety , both from the consideration of mans obligation to divine service from his nature , from the weight and concernment of the things that time is imployed in , and the inward sense of immortality upon the soul of man. but then what this proportion of time must exactly be , i see not how meer natural light could determine it , but it would rather suggest it to be highly reasonable to wait for and expect such a determination from the supream rector and governour of the world . it being far more fit for the master to prescribe unto the servant what proportion of service he expects from him , then that the servant should both divide and choose his own time , and the proportion of service which he owes to his master . nay it being so much more reasonable for us to wait for gods order , then for a servant for his masters , as gods power and dominion over the creature is greater then that of a master over his servant ; as it is the voyce and sense of nature that gods commands cannot otherwise be but just , holy , reasonable and good : which may be otherwise from men ; as the acceptance of our persons with god , lies not barely in the work done ; but in the doing it out of obedience to the commands of god ; which is otherwise with men ▪ as , god can give strength to perform what he commands , which man cannot : which things considered make it evident to be highly reasonable that god himself should prescribe the proportion of time , and not mans nature . but when god hath thus determined it , nature cannot but assent to that particular determination , that in consideration of the works of god , it is most reasonable that rather one day in a week , then one in a month , should be dedicated to gods service ; that the seventh day of the week upon gods resting on that day and sanctifying it , should be the precise day , unlesse some reason equivalent to that of the first institution , and approved by god for that end , be the ground of its alteration to another of the seven , which is the reason of the change under the gospel . as an evidence of the solemnity of times for worship , the romans as well as other nations had their several feriae ; their dayes set apart for the honour of their gods. in which macrobius tells us the priests held them polluted , si indictis conceptisque opus aliquod fieret ; praetereâ regem sacrorum flamines que non licebat videre feriis opus fieri , & ideò per praeconem denuntiabatur nè quid tale ageretur , & praecepti negligens multabatur . if any work were done upon those dayes of rest , the day was polluted ; and the person punished , unlesse it were as umbro there affirms , in order to the honour of their gods , or for necessaries of life . to which purpose scaevola answered him that asked , what work must be done upon the feria : quod pratermissum noceret , what would be spoiled by letting alone ; as taking an ox out of a ditch , strengthening a beam like to fall and ruine men ; and thence maro allowed it lawfull to wash sheep if it were to cure , and not only to cleanse them . balautumque gregem fluvio mersare salubri . by which last word , macrobius saith it was only lawfull to do it for healing them , and not in order to gain . servius informs us likewise that the priests when they went to sacrifice , sent their servants before to bid all tradesmen leave working , nè pro negotio suo & ipsorum oculos & deorum ceremonias attaminent ; feria enim operae deorum creditae sunt ; lest by following their work they both offend them and the gods too : for these holy-dayes are devoted to the service of the gods. festus saith that upon their dies religiosi , nisi quod necesse est , nefas habetur facere ; nothing but works of pure necessity were to be done , but by dies religiosi , probably he means the dies atr● & nefasti ; their ominous unlucky dayes , as they accounted them . but however , macrobius distinguisheth the dayes among the romans into dies festi , profesti , & intercisi . the festi were dedicated to the gods , the profesti to their own works , the intercisi were divided between both , at some hours of which it was lawfull to follow their civill employments , at others not . nam cum hostiacaeditur , fari nefas est ; inter caesa & porrecta , fari licet ; rursus cum adoletur , non licet . while the sacrifice was killing no courts of judicature were opened ( in which the praetor might fari tria verba solemnia , do , dico ; addico , thence called dies fasti ) but between the killing the sacrifice and offering up the entrails ( called porrecta from porricere , which was verbum sacrificale pervetustum , saith turnebus , an old word belonging to sacrificing , exta di●s cum dabant , porricere dicebant , varro ) then it was lawfull to open the courts ; but again when the sacrifice was offered , it was not . by which we see as from the light of nature , that what dayes and times , whether weekly , monthly or anniversary , were designed and appointed as dies festi , for the service of god , were to be spent wholly in order to that end , and not to give some part to god , and take others to themselves : as they were wont to do in their sacrifices , to offer up some part to the gods , and feast upon the rest themselves , as athenaeus tells us that conon and alcibiades offered such hecatombs to the gods , that they entertained the people upon the remainders of them . and from hence we may see how far short of natural light their religion falls , who make no scruple of spending a great part of the dayes devoted to gods worship in following either their imployments or recreations : which latter seem more directly to impugne the end of such time appointed then the other , in as much as recreations tend more to the ratifying mens spirits ; and evaporating them into lightnesse and vanity , and so discomposing them for the duties of spirituall worship , then mens serious and lawfull callings do . but further , we observe , among the romans severall sorts of dayes appointed for publike worship . macrobius reckons up four sorts of them , stative , conceptivae , imperativae , & nundinae . stativae , were the set festivall dayes observed every year by the whole people , and marked for that end in their fasti. such were the agonalia , carmentalia , lupercalia , which are marked with red letters in the fasti consulares , or the calendarium romanum , by ios. scaliger call'd calendarium colotianum , which may be seen at large in mr. selden : besides which , their other anniversary festivals are there set down : which tertullian saith , being all put together , pentecostem implere non poterunt , make not up the number of fifty ; and so not so many as our lords dayes in a year are . conceptivae , were such festivals as were annually observed , but the dayes of the keeping them were every year determined by the magistrates of the priests , as latinae , sementivae , paganalia , compitalia . imperativa , were such as the consuls or praetors did command at their own pleasure . such were their solemn supplications in times of trouble , and their dayes of triumph and thanksgiving for victories . the nundinae were those which returned every ninth day , and therefore the letter by which they observed the return of the ninth day , was h. as among us christians g. which because it notes the return of the lords dayes , we call the dominical letter . these nundinae were the days when the country people brought in their wares into the city to be sold , which were anciently observed as festival dayes , sacred to iupiter , but by the lex hortensia were made dies fasti , for determining the controversies that might arise among the people in their dealings ; as the court of pye-powder was instituted among us upon the same account . so much for the solemnity of time used in the service of god. another evidence of the solemnity of wo●ship , was the extraordinary care of the heathens in preparing themselves for it , by cleansing and purifying themselves with water , for which purpose they had their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for cleansing their hands , and their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 standing at the porch of their temples for their whole bodies , which custome was generally observed by the heathens , as is very obvious in the severall writers of their customs in sacrificing ; besides which they observed likewise this washing with water , by way of lustration and expiation of their faults , as triclinius the sholiast on sophocles tells us , it was an antient custome when men had murthered others , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to wash their hands in expiation of their guilt ; as orestes did in pausanias after the killing his mother , and some think pilate in the gospel did so for the same end ; but his was only to declare his innocency , and not to expiate his sin , as is observed by many upon that place . but however , from hence we may take notice of the spring and fountain of the popes holy-water : which was consecrated by numa long before alexander . to whom polydore virgil and others attribute the first use of it in the christian church : and as the use of it , and the manner of sprinkling it is the same among the papists , as it was among the heathen ; so likewise the end of it : witness the old rime , hac aqua benedicta , deleat mihi mea delicta . which may be sufficiently answered with the ce●sure of a heathen ; ah nimiùm faciles qui tristia crimina caedi● tolli flùmineâ posse putatis aquâ ! too easie souls who think the spots of blood can be wash'd out with every watry flood . but from this i pass to the solemnity in their worship it self , evidenced by the generall silence commanded in it ; which appears by horace's favete , linguis , ovids ore favent populi nunc cum venit aurea pompa ; virgils fida silentia sacris ; festus ' s linguam pascito , i. e. coerceto ; the egyptians setting harpocrates his image in the entrance to their temples , and the romans placing the statue of angerona on the altar of volupia . the greeks had their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as iulius pollux tells us , which plautus calls facere audientiam , to command silence : much as the deacons afterwards did in the primitive church , who were wont to command silence by their orarium , and were thence call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 among the christians ( for though 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as applyed to the bishop and presbyters , did signifie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to preach ; yet as it was applyed to the deacons , it implyed only their commanding silence in order to the prayers of the catechumeni , call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as aristenus observes on concil . carthag . can . . but this by the way . ) the formula used by the greeks in commanding silence was , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to which aristonicus the fidler alluded when in the market place of mylassa , a town in caria , he saw many temples , and but few citizens , he cryed out 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 instead of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but i passe these things over , as being commonly known , only observing from them the solemnity of their publick devotions ; which is further seen in their solemn excluding unfit persons from partaking with them in their sacrifices . of which virgil , ovid , statius , silius italicus , and others among the romans speak ; and the lictor in some sacrifices stood up , saith festus , and cryed aloud , hostis , mulier , vinctus , exesto , i. e. extra esto : and to keep unfit persons the better ff , the flamines had a commentaculum , a kind of rod in their hands . among the greeks the old form continued from orpheus or onomacritus his orphaica , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and those that sacrifice , asked 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the other answered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . from all these things laid together , we see the great solemnity used by them in their worship , which considered in its self , was not the product of superstition , but a dictate of the law of nature . and it seems most naturall to the acts of discipline , that they should be performed in the most publick solemn manner , and not in any private c●andestine way : which being so done , oft times lose the designed effect of them , in making men sensible and ashamed of those miscarriages which made them deserve so sharp and severe a censure . thence among the jews , their solemn sentence of the greater excommunication was pronounced by the sound of a trumpet ; and so they say meroz was excommunicated with . trumpets : and the same number they report was used in excommunicating iesus of nazareth , which was usually done by the magistrate , or the rector of the university : as they tell us a story of a man coming to buy flesh at pombeditha ( which was one of the three universities of the remaining jews in chaldea after the return from captivity , the other were sora and neharda ) but offering some opprobrious language to r. iehuda then governour of the university , he makes no more to do , but prolatus tubis hominem excommunicavit , brings out his trumpets and excommunicates him . and as the use of bells , since their invention , did supply the former use of trumpets in calling the congregation together ( which i suppose was the account of using trumpets in excommunicating from the congregation ) so it seems the bells were sometimes used to ring men out of , as well as into the church ; thence the solemn monkish curse , cursing men with bell , book and candle , which can have no other sense but from this practice . so much shall suffice to shew the soundation which the solemnity of worship , and the acts belonging to it , have in the dictates of nature manifested by the voyce and consent of nations , for herein vox populi is vox naturae , as at other times it is vox dei. chap. vi. the fourth thing dictated by the law of nature , that there must be a way to end controversies arising , which tend to break the peace of the society . the nature of schis●● considered ; liberty of judgement and authority distinguished ; the latter must be parted within religious societies as to private persons . what way the light of nature directs to , for ending controversies , in an equality of power , that the lesse number yield to the greater : on what law of nature that is founded . in a subordination of power that there must be a liberty of appeals defined . independency of particular congregations considered . elective synods . the original of church-government as to congregations . the case paralleld between civil and church government . where appeals finally lodge . the power of calling synods , and confirming their acts in the magistrate . the fourth thing which nature dictates in reference to a church-society , is , that there must be a way agreed upon to determine and decide all those controversies arising in this society , which immediately tend to the breaking the peace and unity of it . we have seen already that natural reason requires a disparity between persons in a society : to form and constitute a society , there must be order and power in some , there must be inferiority and subjection in others answering to the former ; and by these we suppose a society to be now modeld . but nature must either be supposed defective in its designs and contrivements as to the necessaries required for the management of them ; or else there must likewise be implyed a sufficient provision for the maintenance and preservation of the societies thus entred into . it is no wise agreeable to the wisdom of nature to erect a fabrick with such materials , which though they may lye one upon the other , yet if not fitly compacted together , will fall in pieces again assoon as it is set up : nor yet to frame a body with meer flesh and bones , and the superiority of some members above the other ; for unlesse there be joints and sinews and ligatures to hold the parts together , the dissolution ( will immediately ) follow the formation of it . the end and design of nature is , preservation and continuance , and therefore things necessary in order to that , must be implyed in the first design of the being of the thing ; so that at least , as to its self , there be no defect in order to that . this must in reason be supposed in all societies , that when they are first entred , it must be upon such terms as may be sufficient to maintain and keep up those societies in that peace and order which is requisite in order to the continuance of them . for what diseases are to bodies , age and fire are to buildings , that divisions and animosities are to societies , all equally tending to the ruine and destruction of the things they seize upon . and as bodies are furnished by nature , not only with a receptive and concoctive faculty , of what tends to their nourishment , but with an expulsive faculty of what would tend to the ruine of it . so all civill bodies must not only have ways to strengthen them , but must have likewise a power to expell and disperse those noxions humours and qualities which tend to dissolve the frame , compages and constitution of them . a power then to prevent mischiefs is as necessary in a society , as a power to settle things in order to the advancement of the common good of society . this therefore the church as a religious society must likewise he endowed with , viz. a power to maintain its self , and keep up peace and unity within its self : which cannot otherwise be supposed ( considering the bilious humour in mens natures , not wholly purged out by christianity ) without some way to decide controversies which will arise , disturbing the peace of it . for the clearing of this , which much concerns the power and government of the church , we shall consider what the controversies are which tend to break the churches peace : and what way the law of nature finds out for the ending of them , which we are the more necessitated to speak to , because nothing hath begotten controversies more then the power of determining them hath done . the controversies then which tend to break the peace of a religious society , are either matter of different practice , or matter of different opinion . the former , if it comes from no just and necessary cause , and ends in a totall separation from that society the person guilty of it was joyned with , is justly call'd schism ; which ( as 〈…〉 it ▪ ) is an ecclefiasticall sedition , as sedition i● a lay schism ; both being directly contrary to that communion and friendlinesse which should be preserved in all societies . the latter , if impugning somewhat fundamentall , in order to the end of constituting religious societies , or being a lesser matter , if wilfully taken up , and obstinately maintained , is call'd here sit ; which two are seldom seen out of each others company . , and when they are together , are like the blind and same man in the fable , the one lent the other eyes , and the other lent him feet : one to find out what they desired , the other to run away with it when they had it . the heretick he useth his eyes to spy out some cause or pretence of deserting communion ▪ the schismatick he helps him with his leg● to run away from it ; but between them both , they rob the church of its peace and unity . but in order to the making clear what the churches power is in reference to these , we are to take notice of these things . first , that the church hath no direct immediate power over mens opinions : so that a matter of meer different opinion lyes not properly within the cognizance of any church power ; the reason of it is this , because the end of power lodged in the church , is to preserve the peace and unity of its self : now a meer different opinion doth not violate the bonds of society ; for , opinionum di●er sitas & opinantium unitas non sunt 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , men may preserve communion under different apprehensions . so long then ▪ as diversity of opinion tends not to the breaking the quiet and tranquillity of the church of god , a man may safely enjoy his own private apprehensions , as to any danger of molestation from church ▪ governours ; that is , so long as a man keeps his opinion to himself , and hath the power of being his own counsellor . it is not the difference of opinion formally considered when it is divulged abroad that is punishable , but the tendency to schism , which lyes in the div●lging of it , and drawing others away from the received truths : for the opinion its self is an internall act of the mind , and therefore is punishable by no externall power , as that of the magistrate or church is ; as no internall action is under the jurisdiction or authority of a magistrate , any further then as necessarily conjoyned with the outward action , or as it hath a direct influence upon it . the case of blasphemy , which is a thing of the highest nature in this kind , is not punishable by men , as blasphemy implyes low and undervaluing thoughts of god ; but as being a thing divulged ( else no formal blaspemy ) it tends apparently to the dishonour of god , and consequently to the breaking in pieces all such societies , whose great foundation is the belief of the majesty and glory of god. so idolatry under the law was punished , as it was immediately destructive of that obedience which men did owe to the true god. and under the gospel , it is not meer difference of opinion , judgement , and apprehension , which layes men open to the censures of that power which moderates and rules a religious society ; but the endeavour by difference of opinion to alienate mens spirits one from another , and thereby to break the society into fractions and divisions , is that which makes men liable to restraint and punishment . from whence it follows , that where the peace and unity of the church may be preserved , and yet men keep up different apprehensions of things , there is nothing deserving any severe animadversion from the rulers of that society : for a power corrective , and vindictive , must suppose something acted contrary to the laws and rules of the society , and the end of committing that power into the hands of governours : now here is nothing of that nature ; for the laws of mutual society are observed ; and the end of church-government is to see nè quid ecclesia detrimenti capiat , lest the church as a society be any wayes prejudiced : which cannot be while men maintain that love , affection , and communion which becomes the members of such a society . the unity then required in the church , is not an unity of judgement and apprehension among the members of it , which though it be their duty to endeavour after , yet it is no further attainable by mens endeavours then perfection is ; and unio christianorum in this sense , is one of the jewels belonging to the crown of heaven . there , is no necessity then of inquiring after an infallible judge of controversies , unlesse we had some promise and assurance from christ , that the members of his church should never differ in their judgements from one another , and then what need of an infallible judge ? and if christ had appointed an infallible judg , he would infallibly have discovered it to the minds of all sober men ; or else his infallibility could never attain its end : for while i question whether my judge be infallible or no , i cannot infallibly assent to any of his determinations . and where there is no ground for an infallible judge , for any to pretend to it , is the worst of supposable errours , because it renders all others incurable by that apprehension , and takes away all possibility of repentance while men are under that perswasion . the unity then of the church , is that of communion , and not that of apprehension ; and different opinions are no further lyable to censures , then as men by the broaching of them , do endeavour to disturb the peace of the church of god. that then which seems most lyable to censures in a church , is schism , as being immediately destructive of that communion which should be maintained in a religious society . but as to this too , we must observe something further , and not to think and judge every thing to deserve the name , which is by many call'd schism ; it being well observed by a very learned and judicious divine ; that heresie and schism , as they are commonly used , are two theologicall scare-crows , with which , they who use to uphold a party in religion , use to fright away such , as making enquiry into it , are ready to relinquish and oppose it , if it appear either erroneous or suspitious . for as plutarch reports of a painter , who having unskilfully painted a cock , chased away all cocks and hens , that so the imperfection of his art might not appear by comparison with nature ; so men willing for ends , to admit of no fancy but their own , endeavour to hinder an enquiry into it , by way of comparison of somewhat with it , peradventure truer , that so the deformity of their own might not appear . thus he ▪ schism then , as it imports a separation from communion with a church-society , is not a thing intrinsecally and formally evil in it self , but is capable of the differences of good and evil according to the grounds , reasons , ends , and circumstances inducing to such a separation . the withdrawing from society , is but the materiality of schism ; the formality of it must be fetched from the grounds on which that is built . it is therefore a subject which deserve a strict inquiry , what things those are which may make a withdrawing from a religious society , to which a man is joyned , to be lawfull : for as it is a great sin on the one hand , unnecessarily to divide and separate from church-society ; so it is an offence on the other side , to continue communion when it is a duty to withdraw it . for the resolving this knotty and intricate question , i shall lay down some things by way of premisall , and come closely to the resolution of it . first , every christian is under an obligation to joyn in church-society with others , because it is his duty to professe himself a christian , and to own his religion publickly , and to partake of the ordinances and sacraments of the gospel , which cannot be without society with some church or other . every christian as such , is bound to look upon himself as the member of a body , viz. the visible church of christ ; and how can he be known to be a member , who is not united with other parts of the body ? there is then an obligation upon all christian● ▪ to engage in a religious society with others , for partaking of the ordinances of the gospel . it hath been a case disputed by some ( particularly by grotius the supposed author of a little tract , an semper sit communicandum per symbolu ? when he designed the syncretism with the church of rome ) whether in a time when churches are divided , it be a christians duty to communicate with any of those parties which divide the church , and not rather to suspend communion from all of them . a case not hard to be decided ; for either the person questioning it , doth suppose the churches divided to remain true churches , but some to be more pure then others , in which case , by vertue of his generall obligation to communion , he is bound to adhere to that church which appears most to retain its evangelicall purity ; or else he must suppose one to be a true church , and the other not ; in which the case is clearer , that he is bound to communicate with the true church : or he must judge them alike impure , which is a case hard to be found ; but supposing it is so , either he hath joyned formerly with one of them , or he is now to choose which to joyn with ; if he be joyned already with that church , and sees no other but as impure as that , he is bound to declare against the impurity of the church , and to continue his communion with it ; if he be to choose communion , he may so long suspend till he be satisfied , which church comes nearest to the primitive constitution , and no longer . and therefore i know not whether chrysostomes act were to be commended , who after being made a deacon in the church of antioch by meletius , upon his death , because flavianus came in irregularly as bishop of the church , would neither communicate with him , nor with paulinus another bishop at that time in the city , nor with the meletians , but for three years time withdrew himself from communion with any of them . much lesse were the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or the haesitantes as the latins called them , to be commended , who after the determination of the council of chalcedou against entyches , because of great differences remaining in egypt and the eastern churches , followed zenoes henoticum , and would communicate neither with the orthodox churches , nor eutychians . but i see not what censure j●●ome could in ●urr , who going into the diocesse of antioeh , and finding the churches there under great divisions , there being besides the arian bishop , three others in the church of antioch , meletius , paulinus , and vitalis , did so long suspend communion with any of them , till he had satisfied himself about the occasion of the schism , and the innocency of the persons and churches engaged in it . but if he had withdrawn longer , he had offended against his obligation to joyn in church-society with others , for participation of gospel-ordinances ; which is the necessary duty of every christian. secondly , every christian actually joyned in church-society with others , is so long bound to maintain society with them , till his communion with them becomes sin . for nothing else can justifie withdrawing from such a society , but the unlawfulness of continuing any longer in it . supposing a church then to remain true , as to its constitution and essentials , but there be many corruptions crept into that church ; whether is it the duty of a christian to withdraw from that church because of those corruptions , and to gather new churches only for purer administration , or to joyn with them only for that end ? this , as far as i understand it , is the state of the controversie between our parochiall churches , and the congregationall . the resolution of this great question must depend on this ; whether is it a sin to communicate with churches true as to essentialls , but supposed corrupt in the exercise of discipline ? for parochiall churches are not denyed to have the essentialls of true churches by any sober congregational men . for there is in them the true word of god preached , the true sacraments administred , and an implicite covenant between pastor and people , in their joyning together . all that is pleaded then , is corruption , and defect in the exercise and administration of church order and discipline . now that it is lawfull for christians to joyn with churches so defective , is not only acknowledged by reverend mr. norton in his answer to apollius , but largely and fully proved . for which he layes down five propositions which deserve to be seriously considered , by all which make that a plea for withdrawing from society with other churches . first , a believer may lawfully joyn himself in communion with such a church , where he cannot enjoy all the ordinances of god ; a● in the jewish church , in our saviours time , which refused the gospel of christ , and the baptism of iohn ; and yet our saviour bids us hear the scribes and pharisees sitting in moses chair , which hearing , saith he , doth imply conjunctionem ecclesiae iudaicae , a joyning with the iewish church : and so with churches rejecting an article of faith ; in the church of corinth the doctrine of the re●●●rection , in the churches of galatia the doctrine of ju 〈…〉 ion by faith ; but the apostle no-where requires separation on that account from them . secondly ▪ a believer may lawfully joyn in communion with such a church , in which some corruption in the worship of god is tolerated without reformation . as the offering on high-places from solomon to hez●kiah in the church of iuda , observation of circumc●sion , and the necessity of keeping the ceremonial law in the churches of gala●ia . thirdly , a believer may lawfully joyn himself in communion with such a church in which such are admitted to sacraments , who give no evident signs of grace , but seem to be lovers of this world ; which he proves , because it is every ones main duty to examine himself , and because anothers sin is no hurt to him , and therefore cannot keep him from his duty ; and then by mens coming unworthily , non polluitur communio , licet minuitur consolatio , the communion i● not defiled , though the comfort of it be diminished . he brings instance from the church of corinth , among whom were many scandalous , and had not repented , cor. . , . so in the jewish church which lay under great corruptions , when our saviour and his apostles communicated with it . fourthly , although a believer joyn with such a church , he is not therefore bound with the guilt , nor defiled with the pollutions of others ; which he proves , because it is lawfull to do it , and so he contract : no guilt by it . fifthly , a believer that hath joyned himself to such a church , is not bound to withdraw , and separate from such a church under pain of guilt if he doth it not , because it implyes a contradiction to be lawfull to joyn to such a church , and yet unlawfull to continue in its communion ; for that speaks it to be a church , and this latter to be no church ; and by that he doth imply it to be unlawfull to separate from any society which is acknowledged to be a true church , thus for that learned and reverend man , by whom we see that the received principles of the sober and moderate part of those of that perswasion , are not at such a distance from others , as many imagine . we see then that communicating with a church not so pure as we desire , i● no sin by the arguments by him produced . and how it should be then lawfull to withdraw from such a church , meerly for purer communion , i 〈…〉 stand not . this i am sure was not the case of our churches in their separation from the church of rome : the main ground of which was the sin of communicating with that church in her idolatry and superstition , and the impossibility of communicating with her , and not partaking of her sins , because she required a profession of her errours , and the practise of her idolatry as the necessary conditions of her communion ; in which case it is a sin to communicate with her . and this leads me now to a closer resolution of the case of withdrawing from churches in which men have formerly been associated , and the grounds which may make such a withdrawing lawfull . in order to that we must distinguish between these things . first , between corruptions in the doctrine of a church , and corruptions in the practice of a church . secondly , between corruptions whether in doctrine , or practise , professed and avowed by a church , and required as conditions of communion in all members of it , and corruptions crept in , and only tolerated in a church . thirdly , between non-communion as to the abuses of a church , and a positive and totall separation from a church , as it is such . from these things i lay down these following propositions . first , where any church is guilty of corruptions , both in doctrine and practice , which it avoweth and professeth , and requireth the owning them as necessary conditions of communion with her , there a non-communion with that church is necessary , and a totall and positive separation is lawfull and convenient . i have said already that the necessity and lawfulnesse of this departing from communion with any church is wholly to be resolved by an inquiry into the grounds and reasons of the action it self . so that the matter of fact must of necessity be discussed , before the matter of law as to separation from the church be brought into debate . if there be a just and necessary cause for separation , it must needs be just and necessary ; therefore the cause must be the ground of resolving the nature of the ●ction . schism then is a separation from any church upon any slight , triviall , unnecessary cause ; but if the cause be great and important , a departure it may be , schism it cannot be . they who define schism to be a voluntary separation from the church of god ; if by voluntary , they mean that where the will is the cause of it : the definition stands good and true ; for that must needs be groundless and unnecessary as to the church it self : but if by voluntary be meant a spontaneous departing from communion with a church , which was caused by the corruptions of that church , then a separation may be so voluntary , and yet no schism : for though it be voluntary , as to the act of departing , yet that is only consequentially , supposing a cause sufficient to take such a resolution ; but what is voluntary antecedently , that it hath no other motive but faction and humour , that is properly schism , and ought so to be looked upon . but in our present case , three things are supposed as the causes and motives to such a forsaking communion . first , corruption in doctrine ; the main ligature of a religious society is the consent of it in doctrine with the rule of religion , the word of god. therefore any thing which tends to subvert and overthrow the foundation of the gathering such a society ( which is the profession and practice of the true religion ) yields sufficient ground to withdraw from communion with those who professe and maintain it . not that every small errour is a just ground of separation , for then there would be no end of separation , and men must separate from one another , till knowledge comes to its perfection , which will only be in glory ; but any thing which either directly or consequentially doth destroy any fundamental article of christian faith . which may be as well done by adding to fundamental articles , as by plain denying them . and my reason is this : because the very ratio of a fundamentall article doth imply , not only its necessity to be believed and practised ( and the former in reference to the latter , for things are therefore necessary to be known , because necessary to be done , and not è contrà ) but likewise its sufficiency as to the end for which it is called fundamentall . so that the articles of faith called fundamentall , are not only such as are necessary to be believed , but if they be , are sufficient for salvation to all that do believe them . now he that adds any thing to be believed or done as fundamentall , that is necessary to salvation , doth thereby destroy the sufficiency of those former articles in order to salvation ; for if they were sufficient , how can new ones be necessary . the case wil be clear by an instance . who assert the satisfaction of christ for sinners to be a fundamentall article , and thereby do imply the sufficiency of the belief of that in order to salvation ; now if a pope or any other command me to believe the meritoriousnesse of good works with the satisfaction of christ as necessary to salvation , by adding this he destroyes the former as a fundamentall article : for if christs satisfaction be sufficient , how can good works be meritorious ? and if this latter be necessary , the other was not ; for if it were , what need this be added ! which is a thing the papists with their new creed of pius the fourth would do well to consider : and others too , who so confidently assert that none of their errours touch the foundation of faith . where there is now such corruption in doctrine supposed in a church ; withdrawing and separation from such a church , is as necessary as the avoiding of her errours , and not partaking of her sins is . thence we read in scripture , of rejecting such as are hereticks , and withdrawing from their society , which will as well hold , to churches as to persons , and so much the more , as the corruption is more dangerous , and the relation nearer of a member to a church , then of one man to another : and from the reason of that command , we read in ecclesiasticall history , that when eulalius , euphronius , and placentius were constituted bishops of antioch , being arrians , many both of the clergy and people , who resolved to adhere to the true faith , withdrew from the publike meetings , and had private assemblies of their own . and after , when leontius was made bishop of antioch , who favour'd the arrians , flavianus and diodorus , not only publikely reproved him for deserting the orthodox faith , but withdrew the people from communion with him , and undertook the charge of them themselves : so when foelix was made bishop of rome , none of the church of rome would enter into the church while he was there . and vincentius lyrinensis tells us a remarkable story of photinus bishop of syrmium in pannonia , a man of great abilities and same , who suddenly turned from the true faith , and though his people both loved and admired him , yet when they discerned his errours , quem antea quasi arietem gregis sequebantur , eundem deinceps veluti lupum fugere coeperunt , whom they followed before as the leader of the flock , they now run away from as a devouring woolf . this is the first thing which makes separation , and withdrawment of communion , lawfull and necessary , viz. corruption of doctrine . the second is corruption of practice : i speak not of practice , as relating to the civil conversation of men , but as it takes in the agenda of religion . when idolatrous customs , and superstitious practices are not only crept into a church , but are the prescribed devotion of it : such as the adoration of the eucharist ( chiefly insisted on by mr. daillé in his apology , as a cause of separation from the church of rome ) invocation of saints and angels , worshipping images , and others of a like nature , used among the papists , which are of themselves sufficient to make our separation from them necessary . but then thirdly , as an accession to these two , is the publike owning and professing them , and requiring them , as necessary conditions of communion , from all the members of their church which makes our withdrawing from them unavoidably necessary , as long as we judge them to be such corruptions as indeed they are . for men not to forsake the belief of errours , supposing them to be such , is impossible : and not to forsake the practice and profession of them upon such belief , were the highest hypocrisie : and to do so , and not to forsake the communion of that church where these are owned , is apparently contradictious ( as mr. chilling worth well observes ) seeing the condition of communion with it is , that we must professe to believe all the doctrines of that church , not only not to be errours , but to be certain and necessary truths : so that on this account , to believe there are any errours in the church of rome , is actually , and ipso facto , to forsake the communion of that church ; because the condition of its communion is the belief that there are none : and so that learned and rationall author there fully proves , that those who require unlawfull and unnecessary conditions of communion , must take the imputation of schism upon themselves , by making separation from them just and necessary . in this case , when corruptions in opinion or practice are thus required , as conditions of communion , it is impossible for one to communicate with such a church without sin ; both materially , as the things are unlawfull which he joyns with them in ; and formally , as he judgeth them so . this is the first proposition . the second is , where a church retains the purity of doctrine in its publick profession , but hath a mixture of some corruptions , as to practice , which are only tolerated and not imposed , it is not lawfull to withdraw communion from such a church , much lesse to run into totall separation from it : for here is no just and lawfull cause given of withdrawing ; here is no owned corruption of doctrine or practice , nor any thing required as a condition of communion , but what is in its self necessary ; and therefore there can be no plea , but only pollution from such a communion , which cannot be to any who do not own any such supposed corruptions in the church . men may communicate with a church , and not communicate with the abuses of a church ; for the ground of his communicating is , its being a church , and not a corrupt or defective church . and that men are not themselves ▪ guilty , by partaking with those who are guilty of corruptions in a church , might be easily and largely proved , both from the church of the jews in the case of elies sons , and the christian churches of as●● , and corinth , where we read of many corruptions reproved , yet nothing spoken of the duty of the members of those churches to separate from them , which would have been , had it been a sin to communicate with those churches when such corruptions were in it . besides , what reason is there that one mans sins should defile another , more then anothers graces sanctifie another ? and why corruption in another should defile him more then in himself , and so keep him from communicating with himself ? and what security any one can have in the most refined churches , but that there is some scandalous ; or at least unworthy person among them ? and whether then it is not his duty to try and examine all himself particularly , with whom he communicates ? and why his presence at one ordinance should defile it more then at another ? and why at any more then in wordly converse , and so turn at last to make men anchorets , as it hath done some ? many other reasons might be produced against this , which i forbear , it being fully spoke to by others . and so i come to the third proposition , which is , where any church , retaining the purity of doctrine , doth require the owning of , and conforming to , any unlawfull or suspected practice , men may lawfully deny conformity to , and communion with that church in such things , without incurring the guilt of schism . i say not , men may proceed to positive schism as it is call'd , that is , erecting of new churches , which from cyprian is call'd erigere altare contra altare ; but only that withdrawing communion from a church in unlawfull or suspected things , doth not lay men under the guilt of schism : which because i know it may meet with some opposition from those men , who will sooner call men schismaticks then prove them so , i shall offer this reason for it to consideration . if our separation from the church of rome . was therefore lawfull , because she required unlawfull things , as conditions of her communion ; then where-ever such things are required by any church ; non-communion with that church in those things will be lawfull too ; and where non-communion is lawfull , there can be no schism in it . whatever difference will be thought of , as to the things imposed by the church of rome and others , will be soon answered by the proportionable difference between bare non-conformity , and totall and positive separation . what was in its self lawfull and necessary then , how comes it to be unlawfull and unnecessary now ? did that justifie our withdrawing from them , because they required things unlawfull , as conditions of communion ; and will not the same justifie other mens non-conformity , in things supposed by them unlawfull ? if it be said here , that the popes power was an usurpation , which is not in lawfull governours of churches ; it is soon replyed , that the popes usurpation mainly lyes in imposing things upon mens consciences as necessary , which are doubtfull , or unlawfull ; and where-ever the same thing is done , there is an usurpation of the same nature , though not in so high a degree ; and it may be as lawfull to withdraw communion from one as well as the other . if it be said , that men are bound to be ruled by their governours , in determining what things are lawfull , and what not ? to this it is answered : first , no true protestant can swear blind obedience to church-governours in all things . it is the highest usurpation to rob men of the liberty of their judgements : that which we plead for against the papists , is , that all men have eyes in their heads as well as the pope , that every one hath a judicium privata discretionis , which is the rule of practice , as to himself ; and though we freely allow a ministeriall power , under christ , in the government of the church , yet that extends not to an obligation upon men , to go against the dictates of their own reason and conscience . their power is only directive and declarative , and in matters of duty can bind no more then reason and evidence brought from scripture by them doth . a man hath not the power over his own understanding , much l●sse can others have it . nullus credit aliquid esse verum , quia vult credere id esse verum ; non est enim in potestate hominis facere aliquid apparere intellectui suo verum quando voluerit . either therefore men are bound to obey church-governours in all things absolutely , without any restriction or limitation ; ( which if it be not usurpation and dominion over others faith in them , and the worst of implicite faith in others , it is hard to define what either of them is , ) or else if they be bound to obey only in lawfull things ; i then enquire who must be judge what things are lawfull in this case , what not ? if the governours still , then the power will be absolute again ; for to be sure , whatever they command , they will say is lawfull , either in it self , or as they command it : if every private person must judge what is lawfull , and what not , which is commanded ( as when all is said , every man will be his owd judge in this case , in things concerning his own welfare ) then he is no further bound to obey then he judgeth the thing to be lawfull which is commanded . the plea of an erroneous conscience , takes not off the obligation to follow the dictates of it ; for as he is bound to lay it down , supposing it erroneous , so he is bound not to go against it , while it is not laid down . but then again , if men are bound to submit to governours in the determination of lawfull things , what plea could our reformers have to withdraw themselves from the popes yoke ? it might have still held true , boves arabant & asina pascebantur simul , which is aquinas his argument for the submission of inferiours in the church to their superiours : for did not the pope plead to be a lawfull governour , and if men are bound to submit to the determination of church-governours , as to the lawfulnesse of things ; they were bound to believe him in that as well as other things , and so separation from that church was unlawfull then : so that let men turn and wind themselves which way they will , by the very same arguments that any will prove separation from the church of rome lawfull , because she required unlawfull things , as conditions of her communion , it will be proved lawfull , not to conform to any suspected or unlawfull practice , required by any church-governours upon the same terms ; if the thing so required , be after serious and ●ober inquiry , judged unwarrantable by a mans own conscience . and withall it would be further considered , whether when our best writers against the papists , do lay the imputation o● schism , not on those who withdraw communion , but on them for requiring such conditions of communion ( whereby they did rather eject men out of their communion , than the others separate from them ) they do not by the same arguments , lay the imputation of schism on all who require such conditions of communion , and take it wholly off from those who refuse to conform for conscience sake . to this i shall subjoyn the judgement of as learned and judicious a divine , as most our nation hath bred , in his excellent ( though little ) . tract concerning schism . in those schisms , saith he , which concern fact , nothing can be a just cause of refusing communion , but only to require the execution of some unlawfull or suspected act ; for not only in reason , but in religion too , that maxim admits of no release , cantissimi cujusque praeceptum ; quod dubitas , nè feceris . and after instanceth in the schism about image-worship , determin'd by the second council of nice , in which he pronounceth the schismatical party to be the synod its self , and that on these grounds : first , because it is acknowledged by all , that it is a thing unnecessary . secondly , it is by most suspected . thirdly , it is by many held utterly unlawfull : can then ( saith he ) the enjoyning of such a thing be ought else but abuse ? or can the refusall of communion here , be thought any other thing then duty ? here , or upon the like occasion , to separate , may peradventure bring personal trouble or danger ( against which it concerns any honest man to have pectus praeparatum ) ; further harm it cannot do , so that in these cases you cannot be to seek what to think , or what you have to do . and afterwards propounds it as a remedy to prevent schism , to have all liturgies and publike forms of service so framed , as that they admit not of particular and private fancies , but contain only such things , in which all christians do agree . for , saith he , consider of all the liturgies that are , and ever have been , and remove from them whatever is scandalous to any party , and leave nothing but what all agree on ▪ and the evil shall be , that the publike service and honour of god shall no wayes suffer : whereas , to load our publike forms , with the private fancies upon which we differ , is the most soveraign way to perpetuate schism unto the worlds end . prayer , confession , thanksgiving , reading of scriptures in the plainest and simplest manner , were matter enough to furnish out a sufficient liturgy , though nothing either of private opinion , or of church pomp , of garments or prescribed gestures , of imagenary , of musick , of matter concerning the dead , of many superfluities , which creep into the church , under the name of order and decency , did interpose it self . to charge churches and liturgies with things unnecessary , was the first beginning of all superstition ; and when scruple of conscience began to be made or pretended , then schism began to break in ; if the special guides and fathers of the church , would be a little sparing of incumbring churches with superfluities , or not over-rigid , either in reviving obsolete customes , or imposing new , there would be far less cause of schism or superstition ; and all the inconvenience were likely to ensue , would be but this , they should in so doing yield a little to the imbecillity of their inferiours , a thing which saint paul would never have refused to do : mean while , wheresoever false or suspected opinions are made a piece of church-liturgy , he that separates is not the schismatick ; for it is alike unlawful , to make profession of known or suspected falshood , as to put in practice unlawful or suspected actions . thus far that excellent person , whose words i have taken the pains to transcribe , because of that great wisdome , judgement , and moderation , contained in them ; and the seasonableness of his counsel and advice , to the present posture of affairs among us . were we so happy but to take off things granted unnecessary by all , and suspected by many , and judged unlawful by some ; and to make nothing the bonds of our communion but what christ hath done , viz. one faith , one baptism , &c. allowing a liberty for matters of indifferency , and bearing with the weakeness of those who cannot bear things which others account lawfull , we might indeed be restored to a true primitive luster far sooner , then by furbishing up some antiquated ceremonies , which can derive their pedegree no higher , then from some ancient custome and tradition . god will one day convince men , that the unnion of the church lies more in the unity of faith and affection , then in uniformity of doubtful rites and ceremonies . the bond of church-communion should be somthing common to strong and weak christians , as s. austin saith of the rule of faith , that it is pusillis magnisque communis ; and certainly the primitive church , that did not charge mens faith with such a load of articles , as now in these latter ages men are charged with , would much less burden men with imposing doubtful practices upon them , as the ground of church-communion . and for publick forms of divine service , such of all things certainly should be so composed , as to be the least subject to any scruple from any persons whatsoever ; being on purpose composed for the declaring mens unity and consent in their publick worship : and those who are the most addicted to any one form , can never plead it unlawful to amend it ; whereas others may , that it is not lawful or convenient at least , to use it without such alterations . and therefore , were there that spirit of mutual condescention , which was most certainly in ecclesiâ primo-primitivâ , as gratian somwhere speaks , in the first and truly primitive church in the apostles time ; our breaches as to this thing too , might soon be closed up , and the voice of schism be heard among us no more . it argued very much the prudence and temper of the french-churches , in composing their publick forms of prayer , that they were so far from inserting any thing controversiall into them , that amyraldus tels us , the papists themselves would use them . et quod vix credibile esset nisi publicè viseretur , eas inseruerunt in eos libros in quos congesserunt varias precationum formulas , and that which men would scarce believe unless they saw it , they inserted them into their own prayer-books . the same temper was used by our reformers in the composing our liturgy , in reference to the papists , to whom they had then an especial eye , as being the only party then appearing , whom they desired to draw into their communion , by coming as near them as they well and safely could : and certainly those holy men , who did seek by any means to draw in others , at such a distance from their principles as the papists were , did never intend by what they did for that end , to exclude any truly tender consciences from their communion . that which they laid as a bait for them , was never intended by them as a hook for those of their own profession , but the same or greater reason which made them seek so much at that time ( before the rent between the papists and us was grown to that height it is now at ; they being then in hopes by a fair complyance to have brought the whole kingdom to joyn with them ) i say the same reason which at that time made them yield so far to them then , would now have perswaded them to alter and lay aside those things which yield matter of offence , to any of the same profession with themselves now . for surely none will be so uncharitable toward those of his own profession , as not to think there is as much reason to yield in complyance with them , as with the papists . and it cannot but be looked upon as a token of gods severe displeasure against us , if any , though unreasonable proposals of peace between us and the papists should meet with such entertainment among many ; and yet any fair offers of union and accommodation among our selves , be so coldly embraced and entertained . having thus far shewed how far the obligation to keep in a church society doth reach to the several members of it : i now proceed to shew what way the light of nature directs men to , for the quieting and composing any differences which may arise in such a society tending to break the peace of it . but before i come to the particular wayes directed to by the law of nature , for ending controversies in the church , i shall lay down some things by way of caution , for the right understanding of what is already spoken , lest i should be thought , instead of pleading for peace , to leave a door open for an universal liberty , and so pave a new cawse-way towards babel . first , that though it be lawful not to conform to unlawful or suspected practises in a church : yet it is not therefore lawful to erect new churches . for all other essentials supposed in a church , a meer requiring conformity in some suspected rites , doth not make it to be no true or sound church , as to other things , from which it is lawful to make a total divorce and separation . a total separation is , when a new and distinct society for worship is entered into , under distinct and peculiar officers governing by laws and church-rules different from that form which they separate from . this i do not assert to be therefore lawfull , because some things are required , which mens consciences are unsatisfied in : unless others proceed to eject and cast them wholly out of communion on that account , in which case their separation is necessary , and their schism unavoidable . secondly , therefore i assert , that as to things in the judgement of the primitive and reformed churches left undetermined by the law of god , and in matters of meer order and decency , and wholly as to the form of government , every one notwithstanding what his private judgement may be of them , is bound for the peace of the church of god to submit to the determination of the lawful governours of the church . and this is that power of ending controversies , which i suppose to be lodged in a church-society ; not such a one as whereto every man is bound to conform his private judgement ; but whereto every private person is bound to submit in order to the churches peace . that is , that in any controversies arising in a church , there is such a power supposed , that may give such an authoritative decision of the controversie in which both parties are bound to acquiesce , so as to act nothing contrary to that decision . for as it is supposed that in all contracts and agreements for mutuall society , men are content to part with their own liberties for the good of the whole : so likewise to part with the authority of their own judgements , and to submit to the determination of things by the rulers of the society constituted by them . for there must be a difference made between the liberty and freedom of a mans own judgment , and the authority of it : for supposing men out of all society , every man hath both ; but societies being entred , and contracts made , though men can never part with the freedom of their judgements ( men not having a depotical power over their own understandings ) yet they must part with the authority of their judgements ; i. e. in matters concerning the government of the society , they must be ruled by persons in authority over them . else there can be nothing imagined but confusion , and disorder , in stead of peace and unity in every civil state and society . the case is the same in a religious society too , in which men must be supposed to part with the authority of their own judgements in matters concerning the government of the church , and to submit to what is constituted and appointed by those who are intrusted with the care and welfare of it . else it is impossible there should be unity and peace in a church considered as a society ; which is as much as to say , there neither is , nor can be such a society . and that god hath commanded that which is naturally impossible ; i mean , freedom from divisions , and the unity and peace of his church : which will appear from hence , because it can never be expected that all men should be exactly of one mind : either then men retaining their private apprehensions , are bound to acquiesce in what is publikely determined , or there is a necessity of perpetuall confusions in the church of god. for the main inlet of all disturbances and divisions in the church , is from hence that men consider themselves absolutely , and not as members of a governed society , and so that they may follow their own own private judgements , and are bound so to doe in matters belonging to the government of the church , and not to acquiesce for the churches peace in what is established in order to the ruling of this so constituted society , by lawfull authority . these things premised , the way is now fully cleared for the discovering what wayes are prescribed by the light of nature for ending controversies in the church ; which will appear to be these two . . in societies wherein persons act with an equality of power , for the ending differences arising , the less number must alwayes acquiesce in the determination of the greater . and therefore it i● a generally received axiom , that in all societies pars major ●ut habet universitatis , the greater part hath the power of the whole : and it is a standing rule in the civil law , refertur ad universos quod publice fit per majorem partem , which is determined by the lawyers to hold , not of the persons in power , but of the persons present at the determination ; as when alexander severus made fourteen of the viri consulares to be curatores urbis , joyned with the praefectis urbis , to determine cases brought before them , what was determined by the greater part of those present , was looked upon as binding , as if the whole number had been there . and this aristotle layes down as one of the fundamental lawes of a democratical government . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . that must be looked on as a just and final decision of a case debated , which the major part determines . and therefore rationally infers , that in a democracy the poorer sort ( and so likewise the worse ) must alwayes bear the greatest sway , because they are the most . which is an unavoydable inconvenience in that form of government whether in church or state. the same he elsewhere applyes to other forms of government which have a multitude of rulers , as aristocracy and oligarchy : that which seems good to the most obtains as a law amongst all , which appian thus briefly expresseth , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and dionys. halicarnasseus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the one speaking of matter of fact , that it doth obtain , the other of matter of law that it should do so . it appears then from the law and light of nature , that where ever any multitude acts in an equality of power , the greater part have the power of the whole ; not from any right which the major part hath as superiour over the less ; but from the law of nature , which will have every part ordered for the good of the whole ; which good cannot oft times be obtained without a special determination on one side or other ; nor that determination have its effect , if the act of the major part may be rescinded by the less . so that in every thing requiring special determination , this is to be esteemed the most just and final decision which is done by the major part : for it would be manifestly unjust for the lesser part to determine the greater , and therefore by the law of nature , the greater part hath the right of the whole . . in a society consisting of many particular companies or congregations , there must be a subordination of powers by the law of nature , which grants a right of appeal to an injured person from the lower and subordinate power to the higher and superiour . appealing is defined by the lawyers to be provocatio iniquae sententiae querelam contineus . an address to a higher power with complaint of wrong : and so in geneall it is defined by ulpian to be ab inferioris iudicis sententiâ ad superiorem provocatio : but , as hottoman observes , appeals may sometimes be made to a co-ordinate power upon complaint of injustice done . as one praetor , consul , tribune might be appealed to , from the sentence of another . the originall of appeals then is , that injuries may be redressed , and in order to that , nature dictates that there ought to be a subordination of powers one to another , lest any injury done through corruption or ignorance of the immediate judges , prove irremediable . to which purpose our learned whitaker saith , that appeals are juris divini & naturalis , & in omni societate admodum necessariae ; propter multorum judicum vel iniquitatem , vel ignorantiam ; alioqui actum esset de innocente , si non liceret ab iniqua sententia appestare : so that appeals are founded upon natural right , lest men should be injured in any determination of a case by those that have the cognizance of it . and in order to a redress of wrongs , and ending controversies , nature tells us that appeals must not be infinite , but there must be some power , from whence appeals must not be made : what that should be , must be determined in the same manner that it is in civils ; not that every controversie in the church must be determined by an oecumenical council , but that it is in the power of the supream magistrate , as supream head in causes ecclesiastical , to limit and fix this subordination , and determine how far it shall go , and no further . the determination being in order to the peace of the church , which christian magistrates are bound to look after , and see that causes hang not perpetually without decision : and so we find the christian emperours constituting to whom appeals should be made , and where they should be fixed , as iustinian and theodostus did . for when the church is incorporated into the common-wealth , the chief authority in a common-wealth as christian , belongs to the same to which it doth as a common-wealth : but of that already . it is then against the law and light of nature , and the natural right of every man , for any particular company of men , calling themselves a church , to ingross all ecclesiastical power so into their hands , that no liberty of appeals for redress can be made from it . which ( to speak within compass ) is a very high usurpation made upon the civil and religious rights of christians ; because it leaves men under a causeless censure , without any authoritative vindication of them from it . as for that way of elective synods , substituted in the place of authoritative power to determine controversies , it is a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which will never be soveraign enough to cure the distemper it is brought for : for elective synods are but like that which the lawyers call arbitrium boni viri , which they distinguish from arbitrium ex compromisso , and binds no further then the party concerned doth judge the sentence equall and just . so that this helps us with no way to end controversies in the church , any further then the persons engaged are willing to account that just which shall be judged in their case . taking then a coercive power , onely for such a one as may authoritatively decide a controv●rsie , we see what great reason there is for what the historian observes : arbitriis ii se debent interponere , qui non parente● coercere possunt : that all power of arbitration should have some juridicall power going along with it , to make a finall end of quarrels . but that which seems yet more strange to me , is this , that by those who assert the independency of particular congregation● , it is so hotly pleaded , that christ hath given every particular congregation a power over its own members , to determine controversies arising between them : but , that if one , or many of these particular congregations should erre , or break the rule , he hath left no power authoritatively to decide what should be done in such cases . can we conceive that christ should provide more for the cases of particular persons , then of particular churches ? and that he should give authority for determining one , and not the other ? is there any more coactive power given by any to synods , or greater officers , then there is by them to particular churches ? which power is onely declarative as to the rule , though authoritative as to persons where-ever it is lodged . is there not more danger to gods people , by the scandals of churches , then persons ? or did christs power of governing his people reach to them onely as particular congregations ? doth not this too strongly savour of the pars donati ? only the meridies must be rendred a particular congregationall church , where christ causeth his flock to rest ? but supposing the scripture not expresly to lay down a rule for governing many churches , are men outlawed of their natural rights ? that supposing a wrong sentence passed in the congregation , there is no hopes , way , or means to redress his injury , and make his innocency known ? doth this look like an institution of christ ? but that which i conceive is the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and the original of this mistake , is , that the churches we read of first planted in scripture , were onely particular congregations ; and therefore there is no proper church-power beyond them , or above them . i meddle not with the ant●cedent now , which is largely discussed by others ; but the extream weakness of the consequence , is that i am here obliged to discover . for what a strange shortness of discourse is it to argue thus ; if when there was but one congregation , that congregation had all power within its self ; then when there are more particular congregations , it must be so ; and yet this is the very foundation of all those kingdomes of yvetos , as one calls them , those sole self-governing congregations . when there was but one congregation in a church , it was necessary if it had any church-power , that it must be lodged in that one congregation : but when this congregation was multiplyed into many more , is it not as necessary for their mutual government , there should be a common power governing them together , as a joynt-society ? besides , the first congregational church in the new testament , viz. that of ierusalem , could be no particular organical church ; for it had many , if not all , universall officers in it ; and if they were the fixed pastours of that church , they could not , according to the principles of those who thus speak , preach to any other congregation but their own , by vertue of their office : and so , either their apostolicall office and commission must be destroyed , if they ▪ were pastors of particular organical churches ; or if their apostolicall office be asserted , their pastorship of particular organicall churches is destroyed by their own principles , who ●ssert , that the pastor of a church can do no pastorall office out . of his own congregation . the case is the same , as to other churches planted by the apostles , and govern'd by themselves ; which two , as far as i can find in the new testament , were of an equal extent ; viz. that all the churches planted by apostles , were chiefly governed by themselves , though they had subordinate officers under them . these first churches then were not such particular organized churches , but they were as the first matter of many congregations to be propagated out of them ; which after made one society , consisting of those several congregations imbodyed together , and ruled by one common government . as in a colledge , every tutor hath his own pupils , wich he rules ; and if we suppose but one tutor at first in the colledge , with his pupils , all the power , both common to the society , and peculiar to his flock , is joyned together ; but when there are many more tutors , having pupils under their charge , all these , for their better ordering as a society , must be governed by the common government of the colledge , to which the particular government of every tutor is and must be subordinate : but this will be more fully made appear in the original of civil government . it is far more evident , that all civil power lay at first in adam and his family , and afterwards in particular families , than that all church-power lay in particular congregations at first . we may then with as good reason say , that there is no lawfull civil : government now , but that of particular families ; and that no nationall government hath any right or power over particular families , because families had once all civil power within themselves ; as because it ●● supposed , that all church-power lay first in particular congregations , therefore there must be no church-power above them ; nor that particular congregations are subject to such government as is requisite for the regulating of the society in common , as comprehending in it many particular congregations . let them shew then , how any government in the state is lawfull , when families had the first power , and by what right now those families are subordinate to the civill magistrate , and what necessity there is for it ; and by the very same reasons will we shew the lawfulness ▪ of government in the church over many congregations , and that those are by the same right , and upon the same necessity , to subordinate themselves to the government of the church , considere●●● a society taking in many particular congregations . the parallel runs on further and clearer still : for as the heads of the severall families after the flood , had the command over all dwelling under their roofs , while they remained in one family ; and when that increased into more , there power was extended over them too ; which was the first original of monarchy in the world : so the planters of the first churches , that while the church was but one congregation , had power over it , when this congregation was multiplyed into more , their power equally extended over them all . and as afterwards , several heads of families upon their increase , did constitute distinct civil governments , wherein were subordinate officers , but those governments themselves were co-ordinate one with another : so in the church , so many congregations as make up one provincial , or national society ( as succession and prudence doth order the bounds of them ) do make up several particular churches , enjoying their officers ruling them , but subordinare to the governours of the church in common : which society , national or provincial , is subordinate to none beyond its self , but enjoyes a free power within its self of ordering things for its own government , as it judgeth most convenient , and agreeable to the rules of scripture . the summe then of what i say , concerning subordination of officers and powers in the society of the church , is this , that by the light and law of nature it appears , that no individuall company or congregation , hath an absolute , independent power within its self , but that , for the redressing grievances happening in them , appeals are 〈…〉 to the parties aggrieved , and a subordination of that particu 〈…〉 congregation , to the government of the society in common . 〈…〉 at , the right of appealing , and originall of subordination , is from nature ; the particular manner and form of subordinate and superiour courts , is to be fetched from positive lawes ; the limitation of appeals , extent of jurisdiction , the binding power of sentence , so far as concerns external unity in the church , is to be fetched from the power of the magistrate , and civil sanctions and constitutions . the churches power , as to divine law , being onely directive and declarative ; but being confirmed by a civil sanction , is juridicall and obligatory . concerning the magistrates power to call , confirm , alter , repeal the decrees of synods ; see grotius , chamier , whitaker , casaubon , mornay , and others , who fully and largely handle it ; to whom having nothing to add , i will take nothing at all from them : as for that time when the church was without magistrates ruling in it , in those things left undetermined by the rule of the word , they acted out of principles of christian prudence agreeable to the rules of scripture , and from the principles of the law of nature ; one of which we come in the next place to speak to . so much for the churches power , considered as a society for ending controversies , arising within its self , tending to break the peace and unity of it . chap. vii . the fifth thing dictated by the law of nature , that all that are admitted into this society , must consent to be governed by the lawes and rules of it . civil societies founded upon mutual consent ; express in the first entrance , implicite in others born under societies actually formed . consent as to a church necessary , the manner of consent determined by christ by baptism and profession . implicite consent supposed in all baptized ; explicite , declared by challenging the priviledges , and observing the duties of the covenant . explicite by express owning the gospel when adult , very usefull for recovering the credit of christianity . the discipline of the primitive church cleared from origen , iustin martyr , pliny , tertullian . the necessary requisites of church membership , whether positive signs of grace : explicite covenant , how far necessary ; not the formal constitution of a church , * proved by several arguments . the law of nature dictates , that all who are admitted into this society , must consent to be governed by the laws and rules of that society , according to its constitution . for none can be looked upon as a member of a society , but such a one as submits to the rules and laws of the society , as constituted at the time of his entrance into it . that all civil societies are founded upon voluntary consent and agreement of parties , and do depend upon contracts and covenants made between them , is evident to any that consider that men are not bound by the law of nature to associate themselves with any but whom they shall judge fit ; that dominion and propriety was introduced by free consent of men : and so there must be laws and bonds fit , agreement made , and submission acknowledged to those lawes , else men might plead their naturall right and freedom still , which would be destructive to the very nature of these societies . when men then did first part with their natural liberties , two things were necessary in the most express terms to be declared : first , a free and voluntary consent to part with so much of their natural rights as was not consistent with the well being of the society : secondly , a free submission to all laws , which should be agreed upon at their entrance into society , or afterwards as they see cause . but when societies were already entred , and children born under them , no such express consent was required in them , being bound by vertue of the protection they find from authority to submit to it , and an implicite consent is supposed in all such as are born under that authority . but for their more full understanding of this obligation of theirs , and to lay the greater tye of obedience upon them , when they come to understanding , it hath been conceived very requisite by most states to have an explicite declaration of their consent , either by some formal oath of allegiance , or some other way sufficiently expressing their fidelity , in standing to the covenants long since supposed to be made . to apply this now to the church . we have all along hitherto considered the church in general , as a society or corporation which was necessary in order to our discovering what is in it from the light of nature without positive laws . but here we must take notice of what was observed by father laynez the jesuit at the council of trent , that it is not with the church as with other societies , which are first themselves , and then constitute the governours . but the governour of this society was first himself , and he appointed what orders , rules , and lawes should govern this society ; and wherein he hath determined any thing , we are bound to look upon that , as necessary to the maintaining of that society which is built upon his constitution of it . and in many of those orders which christ hath settled in his church , the foundation of them is in the law of nature ; but the particular determination of the manner of them is from himself . thus it is in the case we now are upon ; nature requires that every one entring into a society , should consent to the rules of it . our saviour hath determined how this consent should be expressed , viz. by receiving baptism from those who have the power to dispense it : which is the federal rite whereby our consent is expressed to own all the laws and submit to them , whereby this society is governed : which at the first entring of men into this society of the church was requisite to be done by the express and explicite consent of the parties themselves , being of sufficient capacity to declare it , but the covenant being once entred into by themselves , not onely in their own name , but in the name of their posterity ( a thing implyed in all covenants wherein benefits do redound to posterity , that the obligation should reach them to ; but more particular in this , it having been alwayes the t●nour of gods covenants with men , to enter the seed as well as the persons themselves , as to outward priviledges ) an implicite consent as to the children in covenant , is sufficient to enter them upon the priviledges of it by baptism , although withal it be highly rational for their better understanding the engagement they entred into , that when they come to age , they should explicitely declare their own voluntary consent to submit to the lawes of christ , and to conform their lives to the profession of christianity , which might be a more then probable way , and certainly most agreeable both to reason and scripture to advance the credit of christianity once more in the world , which at this day so much suffers by so many professing it without understanding the terms of it ; who swallow down a profession of christianity , as boyes do pills , without knowing what it is compounded of , which is the great reason it works so little alteration upon their spirits . the one great cause of the great flourishing of religion in the primitive times , was certainly the strictness used by them in their admission of members into church-societies , which is fully described by origen against celsus , who tells us they did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , enquire into their lives and carriages , to discern their seriousness in the profession of christianity during their being catechumeni : who after tells us they did require 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , true repentance and reformation of life , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , then we admit them to the participation of our mysteries . i confess the discipline of the primitive church hath been very much misrepresented to us , by mens looking upon it through the glass of the modern practices and customs obtaining among us : as though all this onely concerned the admission to the lords supper : though that was alwayes in chiefest veneration in the church of god , as being the chief of gospel-mysteries ( as they loved to speak ) yet i cannot find that any were admitted to all other ordinances freely with them who were debarred from this : but their admission to one , did include an admission to all ▪ so on the contrary , i finde none admitted to baptism , who were not to the lords supper ; and if catechumeni , presently after , onely confirmation intervening ( which will hardly be ever found separate from baptism , till the distinction of the double chrism in vertice & pectore came up , which was about ieroms time . ) the thing then which the primitive church required in admitting persons adult to baptism , and so to the lords supper , was a serious visible profession of christianity ; which was looked upon by them as the greatest evidence of their real consent to the rules of the gospel . for that purpose it will be worth our taking notice what is set down by iustin martyr , apolog. . speaking of the celebration of the lords supper ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . where we see what was required before admission to the lords supper , a profession of faith in the truths of the gospel , and answerable life to the gospel , without which it was not lawful to participate of the lords supper . and further we see by pliny , that the christians of those times did make use of some solemn engagements among themselves which he calls sacramenta ; they did se sacramento obstringere nè funta , nè latrocinia , nè adulteria committerent , nè fidem fallerent , &c. and tertullian reports it out of pliny , that he found nothing de sacramentis eorum ( as iunius first reads it out of m. s. for de sacris , after him heraldus , and as it is now read in rigaltius edition ) besides cautelam & ad confoederandam disciplinam , &c. scelera prohibentes , which eusebius calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , pacta , covenants between them ; and so master selden interprets the place of origen in the beginning of his book against celsus , where celsus begins his charge against the christians , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : where he takes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not , as gelenius renders it , conventus , but in its proper sense for contracts or covenants that were made by the christians as by other societies , onely permitted , and tolerated by the common-wealth . and we find by pliny , that when the hetaeriae were forbidden , he brought the christians in under that law ; the ground of those societies was onely a mutual compact and agreement among the persons of it : such as among the essens of the jewes , and the schools of philosophers among the greeks . iosephus mentions the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of those who were admitted into the society of the essens , and so in all other societies which subsist onely from mutuall confederation in a common-wealth . thus i acknowledge it to be in christianity , that there must be such a supposed contract or voluntary consent in the persons engaged in such societies . but with this observable difference , that although there must be a consent in both , yet the one is wholly free , as to any pre-engagement or obligation to it , as well as to the act its self ; but in religious societies , though the act of consent be free , yet there is an antecedent obligation upon men , binding them to this voluntary consent . the want of the understanding this difference , is the very foundation of that opinion men call erastianism ; for the followers of erastus , when they finde that christians did act ex confoederatâ disciplinâ , they presently conclude all church-power lay onely in mutuall consent . it is granted , church-power doth suppose consent ; but then all christians are under an obligation from the nature of christianity to express this consent , and to submit to all censures legally inflicted . about the hetaeriae and societies among the romans , we may take notice of the law of twelve tables . so in the collection of lud. charondus , sodalibus qui ejusdem collegii sunt , & jus cotundi habent , potestas esto pactionis quam volent inter se ineunda dum nè quid ex publicâ lege corrumpant . ex caio c. . d. de collec . & corp . i confesse , when persons are entred into a visible church-so ciety by baptism , if they will own that profession they were baptized into , and are not guilty either of plain ignorance of it , or manifest scandall , and demand as their right the other ordinances of the gospel ; i see not by what power they may be excluded . if we fix not in a serious visible prosession as the ground of giving right , but require positive evidences of grace in every one to be admitted to ordinances as the only thing giving right , for my part , setting aside the many inconveniences besides which attend that in reference to the persons to be admitted , i see not how with a safe and good conscience ordinances can be administred by any . my reason is this : every one , especially a minister , in that case ought to proceed upon certain grounds that the person admitted hath right to the ordinance to be administred ; but if positive signs of grace be required , a mans conscience cannot proceed upon any certainty , without infallible knowledge of anothers spiritual state , which i suppose none will pretend to . my meaning is , that which gives right , must be something evident to the person admitting into it , if it be his duty to enquire after it ; but if only positive signs of grace be looked on , as giving right , the ground of right can never be so evident to another person , as to proceed with a good conscience , i. e. with a full perswasion of another right to the administration of any ordinance to him . if it be said , that these are required only as tokens of a true visible profession , and it is that which gives the right ; i reply , our knowledge of , and assent to the conclusion ▪ can be no stronger , nor more certain then to the premisses from when●● it is inferred ; if therefore true profession gives right , and our knowledge of that proceeds upon our knowledge of the work of grace , we are left at the same uncertainty we were at before . but if we say , that an outward profession of the gospel ( where there is nothing rendring men uncapable of owning it , which is ignorance , nor declaring they do not own it , which is s●andall ) is that which gives a visible right to the ordinances of the church as visible , we have something to fix our selves upon , and to bottom a perswasion of the right of persons to ordinances . christ when he instituted churches , did institute them as visible societies , that is , to have marks whereby to be known and distinguished , as other societies in the world are ; now that which puts a difference between this and other societies , is an open profession of christianity , which profession is looked upon as the outward expression of the internal consent of the soul to the doctrine and laws of the gospel . which outward evidence of consent , where there is nothing evidently and directly oppugning it , is that which the church of god in admission of visible members is to proceed upon . i nowhere find that ever christ or his apostles in making disciples , or admitting to church-membership , did exact any more then a professed willingnesse to adhere to the doctrine which they preached ; nor that they refused any who did declare their desire to joyn with them . an owning christianity is all we read of antecedent to admission of church-members . and if any thing else be further required as necessary , we must either say , the word of god is defective in institutions of necessity to the church , which i suppose the assertors of it will not be so inconsistent to their own principles , as to do ; or else must produce , where any thing further is required by the word of god. by this we may see what to answer those who require an explicite covenant from all members of the church , as that which gives the form and being to a church . if they mean only in the first constitution of a visible church , an expresse owning of the gospel-covenant ; there is none will deny that to be necessary to make one a member of the visible church of christ. if they further mean , that there must be a real confederation between those who joyn together in gospel-ordinances in order to their being a church , i know none will question it that know what it is that makes a society to be so ; which is such a real confederation with one another : if they mean further , that though christians be bound by vertue of their gospel-covenant to joyn with some church ▪ society , yet not being determined by scripture to what particular church they should joyn ; therefore for christians better understanding what their mutuall duty is to one another ; and who that pastor is to whom they owe the relation of member , that there should be some significant declaration either by words or actions of their willingnesse to joyn with such a particular society in gospel-ordinances ; i shall grant this to be necessary too . but if beyond this their meaning be , that a formal explicite covenant be absolutely necessary to make any one a member of a church , i see no reason for it . for , . if there may be a real confederation without this ; then this is not necessary ; but there may be a real confederation without this explicite covenant : as appears in those churches of christ , both in the primitive times , and since the reformation , who have never used it , which none i suppose who maintain this opinion will deny to have been true visible churches of christ. . if the gospel-covenant entred into by any gives a right to gospel-ordinances by its self , then an explicite covenant is not that which makes one a member of a church ; but the gospel-covenant gives that right to all gospel-ordinances . if by baptism , the person baptized have a legal title to all gospel-ordinances , then , &c. the minor appears , in that they are admitted church-members by baptism ; and how can any be a member of a church , and not have right to all ordinances in it , supposing capacity to receive them ? a right once received , continues till it be forfeited , especially when it is such a right as is not limited to any particular priviledges , but to all the priviledges of that society into which they are entred . . the reality of consent may be sufficiently manifested without an explicite covenant ; as in the joyning with those who are under the same profession in the common acts of the society and acceptance of , and submission to the rulers of that society , which implicitely is that covenant which they would have expressed ; and actions in this case , are as declarative and significative as words . . if a church may cease to be a true church , without explicite disowning such a covenant , then it is not explicite covenanting which makes a church ; but a church may cease to be a true church without explicite disowning it ; as in case of universall corruption , as to word and sacraments ; as in the church of rome , that still owns her self for a church . the ground of the consequence , is from the parity of reason as to contraries . but though i see no reason at all , why an explicite covenant should be so necessary to a church , that we cannot suppose a true church without it ; yet i no wayes deny the lawfulnesse or expediency , in many cases , of having a personal profession from all baptized in infancy , when they come to age ( which we may , if we please , call confirmation ) and the necessity of of desiring admission , in order to participation of all ordinances : which desire of admission , doth necessarily imply mens consenting to the laws of that society , and walking according to the duties of it ; and so they are consequentially and virtually , though not expresly and formally , bound to all the duties required from them in that relation . when churches are over-run with loosnesse , ignorance , and prophanesse , or when christians are under persecution , an externall profession of the gospel-covenant , and declaring their owning the society they are entred into , and submitting to the laws of it , may be , if not wholly necessary , yet very usefull and expedient : and indeed , at all times we see people understand so little of their duty or engagements , and are so hardly brought under the exercise of gospel-discipline , that an open profession of their submission to the rules of the gospel , seems the most likely way to advance the practise , power , and purity of religion : but of this much is spoken by others lately , and therefore i supersede . from all this we see , that every society implying a joyning together in some common duties , nature tells us there must be a reall consenting together , explicite , or implicite in all persons , who enter into such a society . chap. viii . the last thing dictated by the law of nature , is , that every offender against the laws of the society , must give an account of his actions to the governours of it , and submit to the censures inflicted upon him by them . the originall of penalties in societies . the nature of them , according to the nature and ends of societies . the penalty of the church no civil mulct ; because its laws and ends are different from civill societies . the practice of the druids in excommunication . among the iews , whether a meer civill or sacred penalty . the latter proved by six arguments . cherem col bo objections answered . the originall of the mistake shewed . the first part concluded . nature dictates further , that in a well-ordered society , every offender against the rules of that society , must give an account of his actions to the governours of that society , and submit to the censures of it , according to the judgement of the rulers of it . in all societies subsisting by laws , men being more ruled by hopes and fears , then by a sense of duty , or love of goodness , it is necessary for maintaining a society , that there must be not only a declaration of what men ought to do , but a setting forth the penalties which they must undergo upon violation of the laws whereon the society doth subsist : and as there must be penalties annexed , as the sanction of the law , so it must of necessity be implyed in a well-ordered society , that every person , as he doth promise obedience to the law , so by the same obligation he is bound to submit to the penalties upon disobedience : for whatever laws binds to duty where there is a penalty threatned , doth bind likewise to punishment upon neglect of duty : for no sooner is the law broken , but the offender lyes under the penall sanction of that law , and is thereby bound to give an account of himself and actions , to those governours who are bound to see the laws obeyed , or offenders punished . guilt follows immediately upon the breach of the law , which is nothing else but the offenders obligation to punishment . from this obligation on the offenders part , ariseth a new relation between the governour of the society and the offender . on the governours part a right to punish , vindictive justice supposing offences committed , and on the offender● part , an obligation to undergo what shall be inflicted upon him for his offence : punishment being nothing else , but malum passionis ob malum actionis . there must be then these things supposed in any well ordered society ; laws to be governed by , rulers to see the laws kept , or offenders punished , penalties made known for offenders , submission of the persons in the societies to the penalties , if they deserve them . but now of what kind , nature , and degree the penalties must be , must be resolved according to the nature , end , and design of the constitution of the society if it be a society for preservation of the rights of bodies , or estates , the penalties must be either pecuniary or corporal : and the ground is , because the end of legall punishment is not properly revenge , but the preservation of the society , which without punishments could not be : a threefold end is therefore assigned to punishments ; the reformation of the offending person , the prevention of further offences in the society of the same kind , and the being a terrour and example to others ; the first is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the second 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being for the preservation of the honour of the magistrate : the third 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when the punishment is inflicted upon one , that others should take notice of it ; which must be alwayes done in a publike manner : so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ in matthew , is opposed to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . these things being thus in general considered , come we now to apply it to the church considered as a society . that it hath peculiar laws to be governed by , appears by the distinct nature , end , and design of the constitution of it ; which is not to preserve any outward rights , but to maintain and keep up a religious society for the service of god ; and therefore the penall sanctions of these laws cannot properly be any corporall or pecuniary mulct , but somewhat answerable to the nature of the society . it must be then somewhat which implyes the deprivation of that which is the chiefest benefit of that society . the benefits of it are the priviledges and honour which men enjoy by thus associating themselves for so high an employment : that punishment then must be the loss of those priviledges which the corporation enjoyes , which must be by exclusion of the offending person from communion with the society . hence we see it is evident , that which we call excommunication is the greatest penalty which the church , as a society , can inflict upon the members of it , considered as such . and hence it is likewise clear , that as the society of the church is distinct from others , the laws , ends , governours of a different nature ; so the punishment must be a punishment distinct from civill , and ordained wholly in order to the peculiar ends of this society ; which they do not well consider , who deny any such power as that of excommunication peculiar to the church , which is as much as to deny that the laws whereby the church is ruled , are different from the civil laws , or the end of this society from the ends of civil societies : for the punishment must be proportioned to the laws , and referred immediately to its proper ends . it were no wayes difficult to answer the pretences brought against this : for although i acknowledge a subordination of this religious society to the supream authority in the commonwealth , and that the rules concerning the government of the society in common must have their sanction from thence ; yet this no wayes implyes but it may have its peculiar penalties and power to inflict them , any more then any company of tradesmen have not power to exclude any from their company for breaking the rules of the company , because they are subordinate to the supream authority : or any colledge to expell any from thence , for breaking the locall statutes of it , which are distinct from the common-laws . nor is it any argument , that because christians had mutuall confederations in times of persecution for the exercise of censures , therefore these censures were only arbitrary and humane ; unless it be proved , that it was not a duty in them so to confederate & joyn together , nor was there any antecedent obligation to inflict those censures upon offenders . much lesse , thirdly , because their jurisdiction is not civil and coactive , therefore they have none at all ; which is as much as to say , the laws of scripture are not our common-laws , therefore they are none at all . i shall not here insist upon the divine right of power to excommunicate offenders , founded upon the positive laws of chist , it being my only businesse now to shew what foundation such a power hath in the law of nature , which we have seen doth follow upon the churches being a distinct society ruled by other laws , acting on other ends , subsisting upon different grounds from any other society . a further evidence we have of this , how consonant it is to the light of nature , from the practice of all societies pretending to be for the worship of god , who have looked upon this as the proper penalty of offenders among them , to be excluded out of those societies . thus we find among the druids , whose great office was to take care of the worship of their gods , and to instruct the people in religion , as caesar relates , illi rebus divinis intersunt , sacrificia publica ac privata procurant , religiones interpretantur ; and accordingly the punishment of disobedience among them was excommunication from their sacrifices , which they looked upon as the greatest punishment could be inflicted upon them , as caesar at large describes it ; si quis aut privatus aut pubicus eorum decreto non stetit , sacrificiis interdicunt : haec poena apud eos est gravissima : quibus ita est interdictum , ii numero impiorū & sceleratorum habentur ; iis omnes decedunt , aditū eorū sermonemque defugiunt , nè quid ex contagione incommodi accipiant , neque iis petentibus jus redditur , neque honos ullus communicatur . the practice of excommunication among the jews is not questioned by any , but the right ground and orignall of that practice , with the effect and extent of it . some conceive it to have been only taken up among the jews , after the power of capitall punishments was taken from them ; and that it was used by them , wholly upon a civill account , not extending to the exclusion of men from their worship in the temple or synagogues , but only to be a note of insamy upon offending persons . this opinion though entertained by persons of much skill and learning in the jewish antiquities , yet carries not that evidence with it to gain my assent to it . for first , the causes of excommunication were not such as were expressed by their law to deserve such civil punishments as might have been inflicted by them upon offenders , nor were they generally matters of a civill nature , but matters of offence and scandall , as will appear to any that shall peruse the twenty four causes of excommunication , related out of the jewish writers by selden and ioh. coch. such were the neglecting the precepts of the scribes , the vain pronouncing the name of god , bearing witness against a iew before heathen tribunals , doing any common work in the afternoon of the day before the passover , with others of a like nature . if excommunication had been then taken up among them onely ex confoederatâ disciplinâ , to supply the defect of civil judicatories , at least all capitall offenders must have lain under the sentence of excommunication . but here we read not of any being excommunicated for those , but for other lesser matters , which were looked upon as matters of scandal among them : and though some of them were matters of civil injuries , yet it follows not that men were excommunicated for them as such , but for the scandall which attended them . as , in the christian church , men are excommunicated for matters which are punishable by the civil magistrate , but not under that notion , but as they are offences to that christian society which they live among . secondly , it appears that excommunication was not a meer civil penalty , because the increasing or abatement of that penalty did depend upon the person's repentance , and desire of absolution . now civil penalties do not regard the intention and mind of the person , but the quality and desert of the action ; the reason is , because humane lawes do respect immediately actionem ipsam , and not animum agentis , unless it be onely so far as the mind hath influence upon the action . but now it is otherwise in such lawes which take immediate notice of the intention of the minde , and onely of outward actions as they are significative and expressive of the inward intention : for in these , though the ground of proceeding to penalties be from the notice taken of the outward action , yet that outward action being subject to penalty , as expressive of the minds intention ; where there may be sufficient evidence given of the integrity and uprightness of the intention afterwards , there may be proportionably a relaxation of the penalty ; because the end of the penalty inflicted was not to be an act of justice excluded from mercy in the end of administration as in civil judicatories , but an act of justice whose end was mercy , that is , the regaining and recovering the offenders soul from sin , by inflicting such a penalty upon him , as might humble him under the sense of it . hence appears the great reasonablenesse of their proceedings in the managery of discipline in the primitive times , who did not fix a certain time as a standing law for all offenders , but did encrease , or lessen both the time and weight of their penance , according to the evidences given of their submission and true repentance for their miscarriages . that it was thus now in reference to excommunication among the jews , appears from what is asserted by the learned buxtorf concerning the time of the lesser excommunication , called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 niddui , which remained thirty dayes usually , but were shortned by confession and desire of absolution ; durat . dies qui tamen poenitentiâ & deprecatione decurtantur . but if after thirty dayes past , he continue impenitent , the judge as he sees sit , encreaseth the punishment , so as to double or treble the time , or extend it to his whole life : if he dyed without repentance , a stone is laid upon his bier , to shew he deserved lapidation ; they wept not for him , nor buryed him in the common place of buriall . further , buxtorf there alledgeth this constitution of their law : that if he that was under niddui , and desired not absolution , was the second time under it , if that did no good on him , then he was excommunicated with the higher sort of excommunication , called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is likewise observed by ioh. coch. mr. selden , and others . from whence it is evident that this was an ecclesiasticall censure , and not meerly civill , because the main end of it was not satisfaction to the law , but the repentance of the person who lay under the fault ; and according to the evidence given of it , the penalty was relaxed or encreased , which argument not yet taken notice of nor improved by writers on this subject , seems to make the case clear , that excommunication among the jews was not a meer out-lawry , as some conceive it to have been . thirdly , i argue , if it was not the breach of the law , but the publikeness of the offence , or the scandall of it which was the ground of excommunication ; then it was not a meer civil penalty , but an ecclesiasticall censure : for civill penalties do proceed upon the breach of the law , and alter not as to the publikeness or privateness of the offence ; but here it is evident that the same offence deserving excommunication if done in publike , did not if done in private , or was left at the persons liberty to have the offender excommunicated or not . that which is reckoned as the first cause of excommunication , is affront or contempt put upon a wise man , or rabbi , or one that was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a student in the law ; now it is determined by them in this case , that if it were done in private , the rabbi might pardon him : but if in publike , he could not . for as ioh. coch. gives the reason , publicum doctoris ludibrium in legis contemptum redundas : the contempt of publike teachers of the law , redounds to the dishonour of the law its self . thus it was the scandall of the fault . and not the bare offence which made excommunication necessary among them ; and not as that scandall was a meer defamation of the person , but as it redounded to the contempt of the law. fourthly , i argue from the form used in excommunication by them . there are two ▪ forms produced of their excommunications , the one by buxtorf out of an old hebrew manuscript , the beginning of which is , ex sententiâ domini dominorum , sit in anathemate plo●i filius ploni , in utraque domo judicii , superiorum , sc. & inferiorum , &c. where two things evidence , it was accounted a sacred and no civill action , doing it immediately in the name and authority of the lord of lords ; and pronouncing him excommunicate both in heaven and earth . so r. elieser , speaking of the excommunication of the cuthites or samaritans , atque anathemate devovebant cuthaos mysterio nominis amphorasch , & scriptura exarata in tabulis , & anathemate domus judicii superioris , atque anathemate curia inferioris , as it is translated by guli . vorstius , who in his notes upon that book produceth a most dreadfull sentence of excommunication used to this day in many ▪ synagogues , which they call cherem col bo. from the book whence it is taken , which runs most solemnly in the several names of god , whereby they do chamatize , curse and devote the persons against whom it is pronounced . fifthly , it appears not to be a meerly civil thing instead of civill power , because they use it against those over whom they have no civill jurisdiction , as appears by their schamatizing the christians in their liturgies , as buxtorf observes . sixthly , i argue from the effects of it , because they who lay under it were excluded from publike worship , which is averred by buxtorf , goc● . and others in the places forecited . it is acknowledged that he that was onely under niddui , might be present at publike worship ; but even there he was under his separation too , of four cubits from any other israelite . and hence in probability might the mistake arise , because those under niddui might appear at the temple or synagogue , therefore excommunication was no prohibition à sacris . but he that was under cherem , non docet , non docetur , neither teacheth others , nor is taught himself , saith ioh. cocceius ; and buxtorf of one under cherem , omninò à coetu sacro excluditur : and in this sense buxtorf expresly takes the turning out of the synagogue , ioh. . — . . which , saith he , is done by cherem . but against this it is strongly pleaded by our learned mr. selden , that putting out of the synagogue is nothing else but excommunicating 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to separate from the congregation , taking 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the civil and not sacred sense , as it denotes an excluding them from common society ; but though it be freely granted that that is sometimes the signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as mat. . . yet those particulars being considered , which are already laid down , i shall leave it to consideration whether it be more probable to take the word synagogue here in a civil or sacred sense ; when the occasion expressed is meerly a matter of doctrine and opinion , and not any thing condemned by their law. another thing which hath been , i believe a great ground of mistaking in this matter , is , that excluding from the civill society among them was alwayes consequent upon excommunication ; the reason whereof was , because the church and common-wealth were not distinct among the jews ; and the same persons who took care of sacred , did likewise of civil things ( there being no distinct sanhedrins among them as some imagine : ) but from hence it no wayes follows , but their excommunication might be an exclusion from sacred worship as well as civil society . however , were it as they pretend , that it was from civill commerce , yet the whole people of the jews being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gods peculiar people , and his only church in being before the times of the gospel , an exclusion in that respect from the common society of them , might deservedly be looked upon as a sacred action , and not meerly civill , it being a separation from a people whose main ligature was their being a church of god , or a community gathered together for gods worship and service . thus we see the church of the jews had this power among them ; and for the christian church , the practice of discipline upon offenders was never questioned , though the right hath been ; so that from hence we gather , in that it hath been the practice of societies constituted for the worship of god , to call offenders to an account for their offences , and if upon examination they be found guilty , to exclude them their society ; that it is a dictate of the law of nature , that every offender against the laws of a society must give an account of his actions to the rulers of it , and submit to the censures inflicted on him by them . thus i am now come to the end of my first stage , to shew how far church-government is founded upon the law and light of nature , and so to the end of the first part. part . ii. chap. i. the other ground of divine right considered , viz. gods positive laws ; which imply a certain knowledge of gods intention to bind men perpetually . as to which , the arguments drawn from tradition , and the practice of the church in after-ages , proved invalid by several arguments . in order to a right stating the question , some concessions laid down . first , that there must be some form of government in the church . the notion of a church explained : whether it belongs only to particular congregations , which are manifested not to be of gods primary intention , but for our necessity . evidence for national churches under the gospel . a national church-government necessary . i now come to the second way , whereby any thing comes to be of unalterable divine right , which is , by the positive laws of god , which do bind universally to obedience . in the entrance into this discourse , it is necessary to lay down the ways , whereby we find out a divine positive law determining an unalterable obligation : which must be either by express words of scripture , or by some other certain way , whereby to gather from thence , that it was gods intention to bind men . for the main thing requisite to make a standing universal positive law , is gods declaring his mind , that the thing enquired into , should unalterably bind men to the practice of it . now whatever doth sufficiently manifest gods intention , is a medium to find out such a law by , and nothing else : but it must be such a manifestation as gives a mans mind sufficient evidence and testimony whereon to build a true , certain , and divine assent to the thing , as revealed : so that whatsoever binds the conscience as a law , must first be entertained by the understanding as a matter of faith ; not as it imports something meerly doctrinall and dogmaticall , but as it implyes the matter of a divine revelation , and the object of an assent upon the credibility of a testimony . for god having the only immediate authority over the consciences of men , nothing can bind immediately the conscience but a divine law , neither can any thing bind as such , but what the understanding assents unto , as revealed by god himself . now the word of god being the only codex and digests of divine laws , whatever law we look for , must either be found there in express terms , or at least so couched therein , that every one by the exercise of his understanding , may by a certain and easie collection , gather the universall obligation of the thing enquired after . in this case then , whatsoever is not immediately founded upon a divine testimony , cannot be made use of as a medium to infer an universally binding law by : so that all traditions and historicall evidence will be unserviceable to us , when we enquire into gods intentions in binding mens consciences . matters of fact , and meer apostolicall practice , may i freely grant , receive much light from the records of succeeding ages ; but they can never give a mans understanding sufficient ground to inferr any divine law , arising from those facts attested to be the practice or records of succeeding ages . for first , the foundation and ground of our assent in this case , is not the bare testimony of antiquity ; but the assurance which we have , either that their practice did not vary from what was apostolicall ; or in their writings , that they could not mistake concerning what they deliver unto us : and therefore those who would inferr the necessary obligation of men to any form of government , because that was practised by the apostles , and then prove the apostolicall practice from that of the ages succeeding , or from their writings , must first of all prove , that what was done then , was certainly the apostles practice , and so prove the same thing by its self , or that it was impossible they should vary from it , or that they should mistake in judging of it : for here something more is required then a meer matter of fact , in which i confess their nearnesse to the apostles times doth give them an advantage above the ages following , to discern what it was ; but such a practice is required , as inferrs an universall obligation upon all places , times , and persons . therefore these things must be manifested , that such things were unquestionably the practice of those ages and persons ; that their practice was the same with the apostles ; that what they did , was not from any prudential motives , but by vertue of a law which did bind them to that practice . which things are easily passed over by the most eager disputers of the controversie about church-government , but how necessary they are to be proved before any form of government be asserted , so necessary , that without it there can be no true church , any weak understanding may discern . secondly , supposing that apostolicall practice be sufficiently attested by the following ages , yet unless it be cleared from scripture , that it was gods intention that the apostles actions should continually bind the church , there can be nothing inferred that doth concern us in point of conscience . i say , that though the matter of fact be evidenced by posterity , yet the obligatory nature of that fact must depend on scripture : and the apostles intentions must not be built upon mens bare ●urmises , nor upon after-practices , especially if different from the constitution of things during the apostles times . and here those have somewhat whereon to exercise their understandings , who assert an obligation upon men to any form of government , by vertue of an apostolicall practice , which must of necessity suppose a different state of things from what they were when the apostles first established governours over churches . as how those who were appointed governours over particular congregations by the apostles , come to be by vertue of that ordination , governours over many congregations of like nature and extent with that over which they were set : and whether , if it were the apostles intention that such governours should be alwayes in the church , is it not necessary that that intention of theirs be declared by a standing law , that such there must be ; for here matter of fact and practice can be no evidence , when it is supposed to be different from the constitution of churches afterward : but of this more hereafter . thirdly , supposing any form of government in its self necessary , and that necessity not determined by a law in the word of god , the scripture is thereby apparently argued to be insufficient for its end ; for then deficit in necessariis ; some things are necessary for the church of god which the scripture is wholly silent in . i say not , that every thing about church-government must be written in scripture ; but supposing any one form necessary , it must be there commanded , or the scripture is an imperfect rule , which contains not all things necessary by way of precept : for there can be no other necessity universall , but either by way of means to an end , or by way of divine command : i know none will say , that any particular form of government is necessary absolutely , by way of means to an end ; for certainly , supposing no obligation from scripture , government by an equality of power in the officers of the church , or by superiority of one order above another , are indifferent in order to the generall ends of government , and one not more necessary then the other . if any one form then be necessary , it must be by that of command ; and if there be a command universally binding , whose footsteps cannot be traced in the word of god , how can the scriptures be a perfect rule , if it fails in determining binding laws ? so that we must , if we own the scriptures sufficiency as a binding rule , appeal to that about any thing pleaded as necessary , by vertue of any divine command : and if such a law cannot be met with in scripture , which determines the case in hand one way or other by way of necessary obligation , i have ground to look upon that which is thus left undetermined by gods positive laws , to be a matter of christian-liberty ; and that neither part is to be looked upon as necessary for the church of god , as exclusive of the other . this i suppose is the case , as to particular forms of government in the church of god : but that i may not only suppose but prove it , i now come to the stating of the question , which if ever necessary to be done any where , it is in the controversie of church-government , the most of mens heats in this matter arising from want of right understanding the thing in question between them . in the stating the question , i shall proceed by degrees , and shew how far we acknowledge any thing belonging to government in the church to be of an unalterable divine right . first , that there must be a form of government in the church of god , is necessary by vertue , not only of that law of nature which provides for the preservation of societies , but likewise by vertue of that divine law , which takes care for the churches preservation in peace and unity . i engage not here in the controversie , whether a particular congregation be the first political church or no ; it sufficeth for my purpose , that there are other churches besides particular congregations : i mean , not only the catholick visible church , which is the first , not only in order of consideration , but nature too , as a totum integrale before the similar parts of it , but in respect of all other accidentall modifications of churches , from the severall wayes of their combination together . they who define a church by stated worshipping congregations , do handsomely beg the thing they desire , by placing that in their definition of a church , which is the thing in question : which is , whether there be no other church but such particular congregations ? which is as if one should go about to prove , that there were no civil societies but in particular corporations , and to prove it , should give such a definition of civill society , that it is , a company of men joyned together in a corporation , for the preservation of their rights and priviledges , under the governours of such a place . it must be first proved , that no other company of men can be call'd a civill society besides a corporation : and so that no other society of men joyning together in the profession of the true religion , can be call'd a church , but such as joyn in particular congregations . to which purpose it is very observable , that particular congregations are not de primariâ intentione divinâ ; for if the whole world could joyn together in the publike worship of god , no doubt that would be most properly a church , but particular congregations are only accidental , in reference to gods intention of having a church , because of the impossibility of all mens joyning together for the convenient distribution of church-priviledges , and administration of gospel-ordinances . for it is evident , that the priviledges and ordinances , do immediately and primarily belong to the catholick visible church , in which christ to that end hath set officers , as the apostle clearly expresseth , corinth . . . ( for how apostles should be set as officers over particular congregations , whose commission extended to the whole world , is , i think , somewhat hard to understand ) but for the more convenient participation of priviledges and ordinances , particular congregations are necessary : this will be best illustrated by examples . we read that ( esther . . ) king ahashuerus made a feast for all his princes and servants : doubtlesse the king did equally respect them all as a body in the feasting of them , and did bestow his entertainment upon them all as considered together ; but by reason of the great multitude of them , it was impossible that they should all be feasted together in the same room ; and therefore for more convenient participation of the kings bounty , it was necessary to divide themselves into particular companies , and to associate as many as conveniently could in order to that end . so it is in the church , christ in donation of priviledges equally respects the whole church ; but because men cannot all meet together to participate of these priviledges , a more particular distribution was necessary for that end . but a clearer example of this kind we have yet in scripture , which is mark . . in our saviours feeding the multitude with five loaves and two fishes ; where we see our saviours primary intention , was to feed the whole multitude ; but for their more convenient partaking of this food , our saviour commands them to sit down 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , according to the hebraism of ingeminating the words , to note the distribution of them , and therefore the vulg. lat. renders it secundum contubernia , that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as camerarius expounds it , according to so many companies and divisions as might conveniently sit together , as at a table : where we plainly see this distribution was only accidentall , as to christs primary intention of feeding the multitude , but was only necessary for their own conveniency . thus the case is evident , as to the church of god , it is our necessity and conveniency which makes severall congregations of the catholike visible church , and not gods primary intention , when he bestowed such priviledges upon the church , that it should be understood of particular congregations . if then particular congregations be only accidentall for our conveniency , it evidently follows that the primary notion of a church , doth not belong to these ; nor that these are the first subject of government which belongs to a church as such , and not as crumbled into particular congregations ; although the actual exercise of government be most visible and discernable there ; because the joyning together for participation of gospel-ordinances must be in some particular company or other associated together for that end . where ever then we find the notion of a church particular , there must be government in that church ; and why a national society incorporated into one civil government , joyning in the profession of christianity , and having a right thereby to participate of gospel-ordinances in the convenient distributions of them in particular congregations , should not be called a church ; i confesse i can see no reason . the main thing objected against it , is , that a church implyes an actual joyning together for participation of all gospel-ordinances ; but as this , as i said before , is only a begging the question , so i say now , that actual communion with any particular congregation , is not absolutely necessary to a member of a church ; for supposing one baptized at sea , where no setled congregation is ( nor any more society then that which aristotle calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) yet such a one is thereby a member of the church of god , though not of any congregation ; so likewise a church then may consist of such as have a right to ordinances , without the inserting their actual participation of them in fixed congregations . a particular church then i would describe thus , that it is , a society of men joyning together in the visible profession of the true faith ; having a right to , and enjoying among them the ordinances of the gospel . that a whole nation professing christianity , in which the ordinances of the gospel are duly administred in particular congregations , is such a society , is plain and evident . a clear instance of such a national constitution of a church under the gospel , we have in the prophesie of the conversion of egypt and assyria in gospel-times . isaiah . , , , . we have egypts professing the true faith , and enjoying gospel ordinances , vers . . . which , according to the prophetical stile are set down under the representation of such things as were then in use among the jewes : by an altar in the midst of the land , ver . . the altar noting the true worship of god ; and being in the midst of the land , the universal owning of this worship by all the people of the land . god owns them for a church , v. . whom the lord of hosts shall bless , saying , blessed be egypt my people . the very name whereby israel was called while it was a church . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hosea , . . and when god unchurched them , it was under this name , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ye are not my people . as much then as israel was a church when god owned it for his people : so should egypt be upon their conversion to the faith of christ , which was done upon marks preaching at alexandria not long after the death of christ. this then we have now briefly cleared , that a nation joyning in profession of christianity , is a true church of god : whence it evidently follows , that there must be a form of ecclesiastical government over a nation as a church , as well as of civil government , over it , as a society governed by the same lawes . therefore some make this necessary to a nationall church , national union in one ecclesiasticall body in the same community of ecclesiasticall government . for every society must have its government belonging to it as such a society ; and the same reason that makes government necessary in any particular congregation , will make it necessary for all the particular congregations joyning together in one visible society as a particular national church . for the unity and peace of that church , ought much more to be looked after then of any one particular congregation , in as much as the peace of all the particular combinations of men for participation of ordinances doth depend upon , and is comprehended in the peace of the whole . but though i say from hence that some form of publike government by the subordination of particular assemblies to the government of the whole body of them is necessary , yet i am far from asserting the necessity of any one form of that government , much more , from saying that no nationall church can subsist without one nationall officer , as the high-priest under the law , or one nationall place of worship , as the temple was . the want of considering of which , viz that nationall churches may subsist without that form of them under the jewes , is doubtless the great ground of mens quarrelling against them ; but with what reason , let men impartially judge . this then we agree , that some from of government is necessary in every particular church , and so that government in the church of divine and unalterable right ; and that not onely of particular congregations , but of all societies which may be called churches , whether provinciall , or nationall . chap. ii. the second concession is , that church-government formally considered , must be administred by officers of divine appointment . to that end , the continuance of a gospel . ministry fully cleared from all those arguments , by which positive lawes are proved immutable . the reason of the appointment of it continues ; the dream of a seculum spiritûs sancti discussed , first broached by the m●ndicant friers . it s occasion and unreasonableness shewed . gods declaring the perpetuity of a gospel ministry , matth. . . explained . a novell interpretation largely refuted . the world to come , what . a ministry necessary for the churches continuance , ephes. . . explained , and vindicated . secondly , that the government of the church ought to be administred by officers of divine appointment , is another thing i will yield to be of divine right ▪ but the church here , i take not in that latitude which i did in the former concession , but i take it chiefly here for the members of the church , as distinct from officers , as it is taken in acts . . so that my meaning is , that there must be a standing perpetuall ministry in the church of god , whose care and imployment must be , to oversee and govern the people of god , and to administer gospel-ordinances among them , and this is of divine and perpetuall right . that officers were appointed by christ in the church for these ends at first , is evident from the direct affirmation of scripture , god hath set in the church , first apostles , secondly prophets , thirdly teachers , &c. corinth . . . eph. . , . and other places to the same purpose . this being then a thing acknowledged , that they were at first of divine institution , and so were appointed by a divine positive law , which herein determines and restrains the law of nature ( which doth not prescribe the certain qualifications of the persons to govern this society , nor the instalment or admission of them into this employment , viz by ordination . ) the only enquiry then left , is , whether a standing gospel-ministry be such a positive law , as is to remain perpetually in the church , or no ? which i shall make appear by those things which i laid down in the entrance of this treatise , as the notes whereby to know when positive laws are unalterable . the first was , when the same reason of the command continues still ; and what reason is there why christ should appoint officers to rule his church then , which will not hold now ? did the people of god need ministers then to be as stars ( as they are call'd in scripture ) to lead them unto christ , and do they not as well need them now ? had people need of guides then , when the doctrine of the gospel was confirmed to them by miracles , and have they not much more now ? must there be some then to oppose gainsayers , and must they have an absolute liberty of prophecying now , when it is foretold what times of seduction the last shall be ? must there be some then to rule over their charge , as they that must give an account , and is not the same required still ? were there some then ▪ to reprove , rebuke , exhort , to preach in season , out of season , and is there not the same necessity of these things still ? was it not enough then , that there were so many in all churches that had extraordinary gifts of tongues , prophecying , praying , interpretation of tongues , but besides those there were some pastors by office , whose duty it was to give attendance to reading , to be wholly in these things ; and now when these extraordinary gifts are ceased , is not there a much greater necessity then there was then , for some to be set apart and wholly designed for this work ? were ordinances only then administred by those whom christ commissioned , and such as derived their authority from them ; and what reason is there that men should arrogate and take this imployment upon themselves now ? if christ had so pleased , could he not have left it wholly at liberty for all believers to have gone about preaching the gospel ? or why did he make choice of . apostles chiefly for that work , were it not his will to have some particularly to dispense the gospel ? and if christ did then separate some for that work , what reason is there why that office should be thrown common now , which christ himself inclosed by his own appointment ? there can be no possible reason imagined , why a gospel-ministry should not continue still , unless it be that fanatick pretence of a seculum spiritus sancti , a dispensation of the spirit , which shall evacuate the use of all means of instruction , and the use of all gospel-ordinances ; which pretence is not so novell as most imagine it to be ; for setting aside the montanistical spirit in the primitive times , which acted upon principles much of the same nature with these we now speak of : the first rise of this ignis fatuus was from the bogs of popery , viz. from the orders of the dominicans and franciscans , about the middle of the twelfth century . for no sooner did the pauperes de lugduno , or the waldenses appear , making use of the word of god to confute the whole army of popish traditions , but they finding themselves worsted at every turn while they disputed that ground , found out a stratagem whereby to recover their own credit , and to beat their adversaries quite out of the field . which was , that the gospel which they adhered to so much , was now out of date , and instead of that they broached another gospel out of the writings of the abbot ioachim , and cyrils visions , which they blasphemously named evangelium spiritus sancti , evangelium novum , and evangelium aeternum , as gulielmus de sancto amore , their great antagonist , relates in his book de periculis noviss . temporum , purposely designed against the impostures of the mendicant friers , who then like locusts , rose in multitudes with their shaven crowns out of the bottomless pit . this gospel of the spirit they so much magnified above the gospel of christ , that the same author relates these words of theirs concerning it ; quod comparatum ad evangelium christi , tanto plus perfectionis ac dignitatis habet , quantum sol ad lunam comparatus , aut ad nucleum testa ; that it exceeded it as much as the kernell doth the shell , or the light of the sun doth that of the moon . we see then from what quarter of the world this new light began to rise : but so much for this digression . to the thing it self . if there be such a dispensation of the spirit which takes away the use of ministry and ordinances , it did either commence from the time of the effusion of the spirit upon the apostles , or some time since . not then ; for even of those who had the most large portion of the spirit poured upon them , we read that they continued in all gospel ordinances , acts . , and among the chief , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , under the apostles ministry , it may be better rendred than in the apostles doctrine : and which is most observable , the prophecy of ioel about the spirit , is then said to be fulfilled , acts . . besides , if either that place of ioel , or that of ieremy , cited heb. . . or the unction of the spirit , john . , . did take away the use of preaching , how did the apostles themselves understand their meaning , when they were so diligent in preaching and instructing others : iohn writes to those , to try the spirits , of whom he saith , they have an unction to know all things : and those to whom the apostle writes , that they need not teach every one his neighbour ; of them he saith , that they had need to be taught the first principles of the oracles of god. and even in that very chapter where he seems to say , they that are under the new covenant , need not be taught , he brings that very speech in as an argument , that the old dispensation of the law was done away : and so goes about to teach , when he seems to take away the use of it . these speeches then must not be understood in their absolute and literal sense , but with a reflection upon , and comparison with , the state of things in the times wherein those prophecies were utter'd : for god to heighten the jews apprehensions of the great blessings of the gospel , doth set them forth under a kind of hyperbolical expressions , that the dull capacity of the jews might at least apprehend the just weight and magnitude of them , which they would not otherwise have done . so in that place of ieremy , god to make them understand how much the knowledge of the gospel exceeded that under the law , doth as it were set it down in this hyperbolicall way , that it will exceed it as much , as one that needs no teaching at all , doth one that is yet but in his rudiments of learning . so that the place doth not deny the use of teaching under the gospel , but because teaching doth commonly suppose ignorance , to shew the great measure of knowledge , he doth it in that way , as though the knowledge should be so great , that men should not need be taught in such a way of rudiments as the jews were , viz by types and ceremonies , and such things . we see then no such dispensation was in the apostles times ; for the same apostle after this in chapt. . . bids them not to forsake the assembling themselves together as some did ; wherefore were these assemblies , but for instruction ? and in the last chapter , bids them obey their rulers . what need rulers , if no need of teaching ? but so sensless a dream will be too much honour'd with any longer confutation . in the apostles times then , there was no such dispensation of the spirit , which did take away the use of ministry and ordinances . if it be expected since their times , i would know whence it appears , that any have a greater measure of the spirit then was poured out in the apostles times ; for then the ministry was joyned with the spirit : and what prophecies are fulfilled now , which were not then ? or if they pretend to a doctrine distinct from , and above what the apostles taught , let them produce their evidences , and work those miracles which may induce men to believe them : or let them shew what obligation any have to believe pretended new revelations , without a power of miracles , attesting that those revelations come from god ? or whereon men must build their faith , if it be left to the dictates of a pretended spirit of revelation ? or what way is left to discern the good spirit from the bad , in its actings upon mens minds , if the word of god be not our rule still ? or how god is said to have spoken in the last dayes by his son , if a further speaking be yet expected ? for the gospel-dispensation is therefore called the last dayes , because no other is to be expected : times being differenced in scripture according to gods wayes of revealing himself to men . but so much for this . the second way whereby to know when positive lawes are unalterable , is when god hath declared that such lawes shall bind still . two wayes whereby god doth express his own will concerning the perpetuity of an office founded on his own institution . first , if such things be the work belonging to it , which are of necessary and perpetual use . secondly , if god hath promised to assist them in it perpetually , in the doing of their work . first , the object of the ministerial office are such things which are of necessary and perpetual use ; i mean the administration of gospel-ordinances . viz. the word and sacraments , which were appointed by christ for a perpetual use. the word as a means of conversion and edification ; the sacraments not onely as notes of distinction of professors of the true faith from others , but as seals to confirm the truth of the covenant on gods part towards us , and as instruments to convey the blessings sealed in the covenant to the hearts of believers . now the very nature of these things doth imply their perpetuity and continuance in the world , as long as there shall be any church of god in it . for these things are not typi rerum futurarum , only ceremonies to represent somthing to come , but they are symbola rerum invisibilium , signs to represent to our senses things invisible in their own nature : and between these two there is a great difference , as to the perpetuity of them : for types of things as to come , must of necessity expire when the thing typified appears ; but representation of invisible things cannot expire on that account , because the thing represented as invisible , cannot be supposed to be made visible , and so to evacuate the use of the signes which represents them to us . types represent a thing which is at present invisible ; but under the notion of it as future . symbols represent a thing at present invisible , but as present ; and therefore symbols are designed by gods institution for a perpetuall help to the weakness of our faith. and therefore the lords supper is appointed to set forth the lords death , till he come : whereby the continuance of it in the church of god is necessarily implied . now then , if these things which are the proper object of the ministerial function be of a perpetual nature ; when these things are declared to be of an abiding nature , it necessarily follows , that that function to which it belongs to administer these things , must be of a perpetual nature . especially if we consider in the second place , that christ hath promised to be with them continually in the administration of these things : for that , notwithstanding the dust lately thrown upon it , we have a clear place , matth. . . go teach and baptize , &c. loe i am with you alwayes to the end of the world. if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , did not signifie perpetuity , yet certainly the latter words do ; for how could christ be with the apostles themselves personally to the end of the world ? it must be therefore with them , and all that succeed them in the office of teaching and baptizing , to the worlds end : for that i assert to be the meaning of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . i insist not barely on the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , either as to its supposed etymology , or as it answers the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 knowing how fallible the arguments drawn from thence are , when in the dispute of the eternity of the law of moses with the jewes , it is confessed that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 relates onely to a long continuance of time. but however , i suppose that it will hardly be found in scripture , that either 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth barely relate to the time of life of any individuall persons , especially , if absolutely put as it is here . one great signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the new testament ( which we are to inquire into , and not how it is used among greek authours ) is that wherein 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is taken for the world its self which vorstius reckons among the hebraisms of the new test. in which sense the jewes call god 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and great persons 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 magnates mundi in which sense , in the new testament , the devil is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ioh. . . — . . and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , cor. . . and so god is said to create 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the worlds , heb. . . — . . if we take it in this sense , christs promise must of necessity relate to the dissolution of the fabrick of the world , and that he would be with his servants in the gospel , till all things be dissolved . against this it is pleaded , that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here relates to the destruction of ierusalem , and that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 implies the state of things under the law , which would continue till ierusalem were destroyed , from which time a new 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 would commence . but to this i answer , first ; i absolutely deny , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , doth ever in scripture relate to the destruction of the jewish state. this will be best made out by a particular view of the places wherein this phrase occurres . the first time we meet with this phrase is in matth. . where we have it thrice , ver . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : now can any be so senslesse , as to imagine that the harvest wherein the tares shall be gathered , and cast into unquenchable fire , when the angels are said to be the reapers , and to gather out of christs kingdome every thing that offends , should be attributed to the destruction of ierusalem ? and so ver . . and ver . . where the same phrase expresseth the same time , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , where the antecedents and consequents fully declare , what the time there is meant , which is the general judgement of the world . the onely place pleaded for this sense , is matthew . . where the disciples inquire of christ what should be the sign , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , where granting , that the former christs coming may respect his coming to alter the present state of things , according to the jewes apprehension of the messias ; yet i deny that the latter doth , but it respects the generall destruction of the world , consequent upon that alteration : for the jewes not onely expected an alteration of the present state of things among them , but a consequent destruction of the world , after the coming of the messias , according to that speech of theirs cited by doctor lightfoot . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this world shall be destroyed for a . years , and after that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there should be the state of eternity . so that the disciples , speaking in the sense of the jewes , doe not onely inquire of the signs of his altering the present state of things among them , but likewise of the destruction of the whole world too . accordingly it is observable , that throughout that chapter , our saviour intermixeth his answers to these questions . sometimes speaking in reference to the jewish state , as it is plain he doth , verse , . and so on ; and when he saith , that this generation shall not pass , till all these things be fulfilled , ver . . but then it is as evident , that some places must relate to the destruction of the world , as when he saith , of that day and hour knoweth no man , no not the angels of heaven , but the father onely , ver . . which will appear more plainly , by comparing it with mark . . where the son is excluded from knowing that hour too ; but how can any say , that the son did not know the time of the destruction of ierusalem , which he himself foretold when it should be ? and those words heaven and earth shall pass away , ver . . seem to be our saviours transition to the answer of the other question , about the final destruction of all things . however that be , as we see no reason at all why 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , should onely respect the subversion of the jewish state : but supposing it should , yet there is far less reason why it should be so meant , in the place whose sense we are inquiring into . for if by christs coming to destroy ierusalem , the old sate and dispensation should be taken away , we must suppose a new state ●nder the messias to begin from thence . and how rationall doth this sound , that christ should promise his peculiar presence with his own apostles , whom he imployed in erecting the gospel state , onely till the old jewish state be subverted ; but his promise not at all to extend to that time , wherein the state of the kingdome of the messias should be set up in stead of it : and how could any of the apostles , for example , saint iohn , who survived the destruction of ierusalem , expect christs presence with him , by vertue of this promise , if it extended no further then to the destruction of the jewish state ? besides , it is a meer groundlesse fancy , and favours of the jewish apprehensions of the state of the messias kingdome , to imagine that the temporall state of ierusalem must be first subverted before that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or dispensation of things was at an end . for the jewish state and dispensation did not lie in the iewish polity , but in obligation to the law of moses , which expired together with christ. and so the gospel-tate , which is called the kingdome of heaven , and the regeneration , began upon christs resurrection and ascension , when he was solemnly ( as it were ) inaugurated in his mediatory kingdome . and presently after sends down his vice-roy upon the day of pentecost , in the effusion of the spirit upon the apostles , making good his promise of the paracle●e to supply his absence : whereby the apostles were more signally impowered for the advancing of the gospel state . the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 then of the gospel commenceth from christs resurrection , and to this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i am very inclinable to think that our saviour hath reference in these words , when he saith , he will be with his disciples to the end of that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , if we take it for a state of things , or the gospel-dispensation ; that is , as long as the evangelical church shall continue : for that in scripture is sometime called the world to come , and that phrase among the jews of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the world to come , is set to express the times of the messias ; and it may be the apostle may referr to this , when he speaks of apostales tasting 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is , the force and energy of the gospel preached ; whence the kingdom of god is said to be not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not in word , but in power , which is the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , spoken of by the apostle elsewhere , the powerfull demonstration of the spirit accompanying the preaching of the gospel . when christ is called by the prophet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the everlasting father , the septuagint renders it by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so the vulgar , latin. pater futuri saeculi , the father of the world to come : that is , the gospel state , and to this sense christ is said to be made an high priest , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the law to be a shadow 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of good things which should be under the new state of the gospel . and which is more plain to the purpose , the apostle expresseth what was come to passe in the dayes of the gospel , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the ages to come , where the very word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used to this sense . and according to this importance of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , some very probably interpret that place of our saviour concerning the sin against the holy ghost , that it should not be forgiven 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , neither in the present state of the iewish church , wherein there is no sacrifice of expiation for contumacious sinners , but they that despised moses law dyed without mercy ; so neither shall there be , any under the world to come , that is the dispensation of gospel grace , any pardon proclaimed to any such sinners who ●●ample under foot the blood of the covenant , and offer despight to the spirit of grace . thus we see how properly the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may agree here to the gospel-state , and so christs promise of his presence doth imply the perpetuity of that office as long as the evangelical state shall remain , which will be to the worlds end . the third thing , whereby to know when positive institutions are unalterable , is , when they are necessary to the being , succession , and continuance of the church of god. now this yields a further evidence of the perpetuity of officers in the church of god , seeing the church its self cannot be preserved without the government ; and there can be no government without some to rule the members of the church of god , and to take care for a due administration of church-priviledges , and to inflict censures upon offenders , which is the power they are invested in by the same authority which was the ground of their institution at first . it is not conceivable how any society , as the church is , can be preserved without the continuance of church-officers among them . as long as the body of christ must be edified , there must be some 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , fitted for the work of the ministry , which is appointed in order to that end ; for that i suppose is the apostles meaning in ephes. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . following the complutensian copy , leaving out the comma between 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which makes as though it were a distinct thing from the former ; whereas the original carryes the sense on ; for otherwise it should have been 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. and those who follow the ordinary reading , are much at a loss how to explain that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 coming in so in the midst without dependance upon the former . therefore the vulg . latin best renders it , ad consummationem sanctorum ad opus ministerii ; for the compleating of the saints for the work of the ministry , in order to the building up of the body of christ ; and to this purpose musculus informs us , the german version renders it . and so we understand the enumeration in the verse before of apostles , prophets , evangelists , pastors and teachers , not for the persons themselves , but for the gifts of those persons , the office of apostles , evangelists , pastors , &c. which is most suitable to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the eighth verse . he gave gifts to men ; now these gifts , saith he , christ gave to men 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the fitting the saints for the work of the ministry . not as a late democratical writer would perswade us , as though all the saints were thereby fitted for this work of the ministry ; ( for that the apostle excludes by the former enumeration ) ; for , are all the saints fitted for apostles ? are all prophets , are all evangelists , are all pastors and teachers ? as the apostle himself elsewhere argues . and in the v. of that chapter , he particularly mentions the several gifts qualifying men for several usefull employments in the church of god , the spirit dividing to every man severally as he will. therefore it cannot be that all the saints are hereby fitted for this work ; but god hath scattered these gifts among the saints , that those who have them might be fitted , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because god would not leave his church without persons qualified for the service of himself in the work of the ministry , in order to the building up of the body of christ. and by the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , here may be meant no other then those he speaks of in the chapter before , when he speaks of the revelation made 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to his holy apostles and prophets , and so god gave these gifts for the fiitting the holy apostles , &c. for the work of the ministry . it cannot be meant of all , so as to destroy a peculiar function of the ministry ; for gods very giving these gifts to some and not to others , is an evidence that the function is peculiar . for else had the gifts been common to all , every saint had been an apostle , every believer a pastor , and teacher , and then where had the people been that must have been ruled and governed ? so that this very place doth strongly assert both the peculiarity of the function , from the peculiarity of gifts in order to fitting men for it ; and the perpetuity of the function from the end of it , the building up of the body of christ. thus i have now asserted the perpetual divine right of a gospel-ministry , not only for teaching the word , but administration of ordinances , and governing the church as a society : which work belongs to none but such as are appointed for it , who are the same with the dispencers of the word , as appears from the titles of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , governours , rulers , pastors , all which necessarily imply a governing power , which having been largely proved by others , and yeelded by me , i pass over . chap. iii. the question fully stated . not what form of government comes the nearest to the primitive practice , but whether any be absolutely determined . several things propounded for resolving the question . what the form of church-government was under the law. how far christians are bound to observe that . neither the necessity of superiority , nor the unlawfulnesse can be proved thence . and now i come to the main subject of the present controversie , which is acknowledging a form of government necessary , and the governours of the church perpetuall ; whether the particular form whereby the church must be governed , be determined by any positive law of god , which unalterably binds all christians to the observation of it . by church here , i mean not a particular congregation , but such a society which comprehends in it many of these lesser congregations united together in one body under a form of government . the forms of government in controversie , the question being thus stated , are only these two ▪ the particular officers of several churches , acting in an equality of power , which are commonly called a colledge of presbyters ; or a superiour order above the standing ministry , having the power of jurisdiction and ordination belonging to it by vertue of a divine institution . which order is by an antonomasia called episcopacy . the question now , is not , which of these two doth come the nearest to apostolical practice , and the first institution , which hath hitherto been the controversie so hotly debated among us ; but whether either of these two forms be so setled by a jus divinum , that is , be so determined by a positive law of god , that all the churches of christ are bound to observe that one form so determined , without variation from it : or whether christ hath not in setling of his church ( provided there be some form of government , and a setled ministry for the exercise of it , ) left it to the prudence of every particular church , consisting of many congregations , to agree upon its own form which it judgdeth most conducing to the end of government in that particular church . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . here now we fix our selves , and the first thing we do , is to agree upon our wayes of resolution of this question , whereby to come to an end of this debate . and the most probable way to come to an issue in it , is , to go through all the wayes whereon men do fix an unalterable divine right , and to see whether any of these do evince a divine right setled upon a positive law or no , for one of these forms . the pleas then for such a divine right are these : either some formal law standing in force under the gospel , or some plain institution of a new law by christ in forming his church , or the obligatory nature of apostolical practice , or the general sense of the primitive church , to which we shall add by way of appendix , the judgement of the chief divines and churches since the reformation ; if we go happily through these , we may content our selves with having obtained the thing we aim at . the first inquiry then is , whether any formal law of god concerning a form of government for his church , either by persons acting in an equality of power , or subordination of one order to another , under the gospel , doth remain in force or no , binding christians to the observing of it . the reason why i begin with this , is , because i observe the disputants on both sides make use of the pattern under the law to establish their form by . * those who are for superiority of one order above another in the government of the church , derive commonly their first argument from the pattern under the law. * those who are for an equality of power in the persons acting in government , yet being for a subordination of courts , they bring their first argument for that , from the jewish pattern . so that these latter are bound by their own argument , though used in another case , to be ruled in this controversie by the jewish pattern . for why should it be more obligatory as to subordination of courts , then as to the superiority of orders ? if it holds in one case : it must in the other . and if there be such a law for superiority standing unrepealed , there needs no new law to inforce it under the gospel . we shall therefore first enquire what foundation there is for either form in that pattern , and how far the argument drawn from thence is obligatory to us now . for the practice then in the jewish church , that there was no universal equality in the tribe of levi which god singled out from the rest for his own service , is obvious in scripture . for there we find priests above the levites ; the family of aaron being chosen out from the other families of cohath ( one of the three sons of levi ) to be employed in a nearer attendance upon gods service then any of the other families . and it must be acknowledged , that among both priests and levites there was a superiority ; for god placed eleazar over the priests , elizaphan over the cohathites , eliasaph over the gershonites ; zuriel over the merarites , and these are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the rulers over their several families ; for it is said of every one of them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he was ruler over the house of his father . neither were these equal ; for over eliasaph and zuriel god placed ithamar , over elisaphan and his own family god set eleazar , who by reason of his authority over all the rest , is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the ruler of the rulers of levi , and besides these there were under these rulers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the chief fathers of the several distinct families , as they are called exodus . . thus we briefly see the subordination that there was in the tribe of levi ; the levites first , over them the heads of the families , over them the rulers , or the chief of the heads , over them ithamar , over both priests and levites , eleazar ; over all , aaron the high priest. there being then so manifest an inequality among them , proceed we to shew how obligatory this is under the gospel . for that end it will be necessary to consider , whether this imparity and superiority were peculiarly appointed by god for the ecclesiastical government of the tribe of levi , as it consisted of persons to be employed in the service of god , or it was only such an inequality and superiority as was in any other tribe . if only common with other tribes , nothing can be inferred from thence peculiar to ecclesiasticall government under the gospel , any more then from the government of other tribes to the same kind of government in all civil states . we must then take notice that levi was a particular distinct tribe of it self , and so not in subordination to any other tribe ; for they had the heads of their fathers as well as others , exodus . . and although when they were setled in canaan , their habitations were intermixt with other tribes in their forty eight cities , yet they were not under the government of those tribes among whom they lived , but preserved their authority and government intire among themselves . and therefore it was necessary there should be the same form of government among them , which there was among the rest . the whole body of the nation then was divided into thirteen tribes ; these tribes into their several families ; some say seventy , which they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , these families were divided into so many housholds 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , their housholds into persons 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; over the several persons were the several masters of families ; over the several housholds were the captains of and , — . over the families , i suppose , were the heads of the fathers . and over the thirteen tribes were the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the chief fathers of the tribes of the children of israel , numb . . . and we have the names of them set down , numb . . , &c. so that hitherto , we find nothing peculiar to this tribe , nor proper to it as employed in the service of god. for their several families had their several heads , and eleazar over them as chief of the tribe . and so we find throughout numbers . all the heads of the several tribes are named and appointed by god as eleazar was . the only things then which seem proper to this tribe , were the superiority of the priests over the levites in the service of god , and the supereminent power of the high priest , as the type of christ. so that nothing can be inferred from the order under the law to that under the gospel , but from one of these two . and from the first there can be nothing deduced but this , that as there was a superiority of officers under the law , so likewise should there be under the gospel ; which is granted by all in the superiority of priests over deacons , to whom these two answer in the church of god , in the judgement of those who contend for a higher order by divine institution above presbyters . and withall we must consider , that there was under that order no power of jurisdiction invested in the priests over the levites , but that was in the heads of the families ; and ordination there could not be , because their office descended by succession in their several families . those who would argue from aarons power , must either bring too little , or too much from thence ; too little , if we consider his office was typical and ceremonial , and as high priest had more immediate respect to god then men , heb. . . and therefore eleazar was appointed over the several families during aarons life-time ; and under eleazar , his son phinehas . too much , if a necessity be urged for the continuance of the same authority in the church of god ; which is the argument of the papists , deriving the popes supremacy from thence . which was acutely done by pope innocentius the third , the father of the lateran council , who proved , that the pope may exercise temporall jurisdiction from that place in deuteronomy . . and that by this reason , because deuteronomy did imply the second law , and therefore what was there written , in novo testamento debet observari , must be observed under the gospel , which according to them is a new law. all that can be inferred then from the jewish pattern , cannot amount to any obligation upon christians , it being at the best but a judicial law , and therefore binds us not up as a positive law ; but only declares the equity of the thing in use then . i conclude then , that the jewish pattern is no standing law for church-government now , either in its common or peculiar form of government ; but because there was some superiority of order then , and subordination of some persons to others under that government , that such a superiority and subordination is no wayes unlawfull under the gospel ; for that would destroy the equity of the law. and though the form of government was the same with that of other tribes , yet we see god did not bind them to an equality , because they were for his immediate service , but continued the same way as in other tribes ; thence i inferr , that as there is no necessary obligation upon christians to continue that form under the jews , because their laws do not bind us now ; so neither is there any repugnancy to this law in such a subordination , but it is very agreeable with the equity of it , it being instituted for peace and order , and therefore ought not to be condemned for antichristian . the jewish pattern then of government , neither makes equality unlawfull , because their laws do not oblige now ; nor doth it make superiority unlawfull , because it was practised then . so that notwithstanding the jewish pattern , the church of christ is left to its own liberty for the choyce of its form of government , whether by an equality of power in some persons , or superiority and subordination of one order to another . chap. iv. whether christ hath determined the form of government by any positive laws . arguments of the necessity why christ must determine it , largely answered ; as first , christs faithfulness compared with moses , answered , and retorted ; and proved , that christ did not institute any form of church government , because no such law for it as moses gave ; and we have nothing but general rules , which are applyable to several forms of government . the office of timothy and titus , what it proves in order to this question : the lawfulnesse of episcopacy shewn thence , but not the necessity . a particular form , how far necessary , as christ was the governour of his church ; the similitudes the church is set out by , prove not the thing in question . nor the difference of civil and church government ; nor christ setting officers in his church ; nor the inconvenience of the churches power in appointing new officers . every minister hath a power respecting the church in common , which the church may restrain . episco●acy thence proved lawfull , the argument from the scriptures perfection answered . vve come then from the type to the antitype , from the rod of aaron to the root of iess● ▪ from the pattern of the jewish church , to the founder of the christian : to see whether our lord & saviour hath determined this controversie , or any one form of government for his church , by any universally binding act or law of his . and here it is pleaded more hotly by many that christ must do it , than that he hath done it . and therefore i shall first examine the pretences of the necessity of christs determining the particular form ; and then the arguments that are brought that he hath done it . the main pleas that there must be a perfect form of church-government laid down by christ for the church of god , are from the comparison of christ with moses , from the equal necessity of forms of government now which there is for other societies , from the perfection and sufficiency of the scriptures ; all other arguments are reducible to these three heads . of these in their order . first , from the comparison of christ with moses , they argue thus : if moses was faithfull in his house as a servant , much more christ as a son ; now moses appointed a particular form of government for the church under the old testament ; therefore christ did certainly lay down a form of church government for the new testament . to this i answer : first , faithfulnesse implyes the discharge of a trust reposed in one by another : so that it is said vers . . he was faithful to him that appointed him : christs faithfulnesse then lay in discharging the work which his father laid upon him , which was the work of mediation between god and us ; and therefore the comparison is here instituted between moses as typical mediator , and christ as the true mediator ; that as moses was faithfull in his work , so was christ in his . now moses his faithfulnesse lay in keeping close to the pattern received in the mount , that is , observing the commands of god ; now therefore if christs being faithfull in his office , doth imply the setling any one form of goverment in the church , it must be made appear that the serling of this form was part of christs mediatory work , and that which the father commanded him to do as mediator ▪ and that christ received such a form from the father for the christian church , as moses did for the jewish . to this it is said , that the government is laid upon christs shoulders , and all power in his hands ; and therefore it belongs to him as mediatour . christ i grant is the king of the church , and doth govern it outwardly by his laws , and inwardly by the conduct of his spirit : but shall we say , that therefore any one form of government is necessary , which is neither contained in his laws , nor dictated by his spirit ? the main original of mistakes here , is , the confounding the external and internal government of the church of christ , and thence whensoever men read of christs power , authority and government , they fancy it refers to the outward government of the church of god , which is intended of his internal mediatory power over the hearts and consciences of men . but withall i acknowledge , that christ for the better government of his church and people , hath appointed officers in his church , invested them by vertue of his own power with an authority to preach and baptize , and administer all gospel-ordinances in his own name , that is , by his authority , for it is clearly made known to us in the word of god , that christ hath appointed these things . but then , whether any shall succeed the apostles in superiority of power over presbyters , or all remain governing the church in an equality of power , is nowhere determined by the will of christ in scripture , which contains his royal law : and therefore we have no reason to look upon it as any thing flowing from the power and authority of christ as mediator ; and so not necessarily binding christians . secondly , i answer ; if the correspondency between christ and moses in their work , doth imply an equal exactnesse in christs disposing of every thing in his church , as moses did among the jews ; then the church of christ must be equally bound to all circumstances of worship as the jews were . for there was nothing appertaining in the least to the worship of god , but was fully set down even to the pins of the tabernacle in the law of moses ; but we find no such thing in the gospel . the main duties and ordinances are prescribed indeed , but their circumstances and manner of performance are left as matters of christian-liberty , and only couched under some general rules : which is a great difference between the legal and gospel-state . under the law all ceremonies and circumstances are exactly prescribed : but in the gospel we read of some general rules of direction for christians carriage in all circumstantial things . these four especially contain all the directions of scripture concerning circumstantials . all things to be done decently and in order . all to be done for edification . give no offence . do all to the glory of god. so that the particular circumstances are left to christian-liberty with the observation of general rules . it is evident as to baptism and the lords supper , which are unquestionably of divine institution , yet as to the circumstances of the administration of them , how much lesse circumstantial is christ then moses was ! as to circumcision and the pass-over under the law , the age , time , persons , manner , place , form , all fully set down ; but nothing so under the gospel : whether baptism shall be administred to infants or no , is not set down in expresse words , but left to be gathered by analogy and consequences ; what manner it shall be administred in , whether by dipping or sprinkling , is not absolutely determined ; what form of words to be used , whether in the name of all three persons , or sometimes in the name of christ only , as in the acts we read ( if that be the sense , and not rather in christs name , i. e. by christs authority ) . whether ▪ sprinkling or dipping shall be thrice as some churches use it , or only once as others . these things we see relating to an ordinance of divine institution , are yet past over without any expresse command determining either way in scripture . so as to the lords supper ; what persons to be admitted to it , whether all visible professors , or only sincere christians : upon what terms , whether by previous examination of church-officers , or by an open profession of their faith , or else only by their own tryal of themselves , required of them as their duty by their ministers ; whether it should be alwayes after supper as christ himself did it ; whether taking fasting , or after meat ; whether kneeling , or sitting , or leaning ? whether to be consecrated in one form of words , or several ? these things are not thought fit to be ▪ determined by any positive command of christ , but left to the exercise of christian-liberty ; the like is as to preaching the word , publike prayer , singing of psalmes ; the duties are required , but the particular modes are left undetermined . the case is the same as to church-governwent . that the church be governed , and that it be governed by its proper officers , are things of divine appointment : but whether the church should be governed by many joyning together in an equality , or by subordination of some persons to others , is left to the same liberty which all other circumstances are ; this being not the substance of the thing it self , but onely the manner of performance of it . . i answer , that there is a manifest disparity between the gospel and jewish state : and therefore reasons may be given why all punctilioes were determined then which are not now : as . the perfection and liberty of the gospel-state above the jewish . the law was onely as a paedagogy , the church then in her infancy and nonage , and therefore wanted the fescues of ceremonies to direct her , and every part of her lesson set her , to bring her by degrees to skill and exactness in her understanding the mystery of the things represented to her . but must the church now grown up under christ be still sub ferula , and not dare to vary in any circumstance , which doth not concern the thing it self ! a boy at school hath his lesson set him , and the manner of learning it prescribed him in every mode and circumstance . but at the university hath his lectures read him , and his work set , and general directions given , but he is left to his own liberty how to perform his work , and what manner to use in the doing of it . so it was with the church under age : every mode and circumstance was determined ; but when the fulnesse of time was come , the church then being grown up , the main offices themselves were appointed , and generall directions given ; but a liberty left how to apply and make use of them , as to every particular case and occasion . things morall remain still in their full force , but circumstantials are left more at liberty by the gospel-liberty ; as a son that is taught by his father , while he is under his instruction , must observe every particular direction for him in his learning : but when he comes to age , though he observes not those things as formerly , yet his son ▪ ship continues , and he must obey his father as a childe still , though not in the same manner . the similitude is the apostles , galat. . , , , , . . which he there largely amplifies to this very purpose of freeing christians from judaical ceremonies . . the form of government among the jewes in the tribe of levi , was agreeable to the form of government among the other tribes ; and so moses was not more exact in reference to that , then to any other ; and those persons in that tribe who were the chief before the institution of the a●ronicall priest-hood , were so after ; but now under the gospel , people are not under the same restrictions for civil government by a judicial law , as they were then . for the form of ecclesiastical government then took place among them as one of their judicial laws ; and therefore if the argument hold , christ must as well prescribe a form for civil government as ecclesiastical ; if christ in the gospel must by his faithfulnesse follow the pattern of moses . but if christ be not bound to follow moses pattern as to judicial law , for his church and people ; neither is he as to a form of ecclesiastical government , because that was a part of their civil and judicial law. . the people of the jewes was a whole and entire people , subsisting by themselves when one set form of government was prescribed them ; but it is otherwise now under the gospel . the church of christ was but forming in christs own time , nor the apostles , in whose time we reade of but some cities and no whole nations converted to the faith ; and therefore the same form of government would not serve a church in its first constitution , which is necessary for it when it is actually formed . a pastour and deacons might serve the church of a city while believers were few , but cannot when they are increased into many congregations . and so proportionably when the church is enlarged to a whole nation , there must be another form of government then . therefore they who call for a national church under the gospel , let them first shew a nation converted to the faith , and we will undertake to shew the other . and this is the chief reason why the churches polity is so little described in the new testament , because it was onely growing then : and it doth not stand to reason , that the coat which was cut out for one in his infancy , must of necessity serve him when grown a man ; which is the argument of those who will have nothing observed in the church , but what is expressed in scripture . the apostles looked at the present state of a church in appointing officers , and ordered things according to the circumstances of them , which was necessary to be done in the founding of a church ; and the reason of apostolical practice binds still , though not the individual action , that as they regulated churches for the best conveniency of governing them , so should the pastours of churches now . but of this largely afterwards . . another difference is , that the people of the jewes lived all under one civil government ; but it is otherwise with christians who live under different forms of civil government . and then by the same reason that in the first institution of their ecclesiastical government it was formed according to the civil , by the same reason , must christians doe under the gospel , if the argument holds that christ must be faithful as moses was . and then because christians do live under several and distinct forms of civil government , they must be bound by the law of christ , to contemperate the government of the church to that of the state. and what they have gained by this for their cause , who assert the necessity of any one form from this argument , i see not ; but on the contrary this is evident , that they have evidently destroyed their own principle by it . for if moses did prescribe a form of government for levi agreeable to the form of the common-wealth , and christ be as faithfull as moses was , then christ must likewise order the government of christian churches , according to that of the state , and so must have different forms as the other hath . thus much will serve abundantly to shew the weakness of the argument drawn from the agreement of christ and moses , for the proving any one form of government necessary ; but this shall not suffice . i now shall ex abundanti from the answers to this argument , lay down several arguments that christ did never intend to institute any one form of government in his church . . whatever binds the church of god as an institution of christ , must bind as an universal standing law ; but one form of government in the church cannot bind it as a standing law. for whatever binds as a standing ●aw , must either be expressed in direct terms as such a law ; or deduced by a necessary consequence from his lawes , as of an universally binding nature ; but any one particular form of government in the church , is neither expressed in any direct terms by christ , nor can be deduced by just consequence ; therefore no such form of government is instituted by christ. if there be any such law , it must be produced , whereby it is determined in scripture , either that there must be superiority or equality among church officers , as such , after the apostles decease . and though the negative of a fact holds not , yet the negative of a law doth , else no superstition . i have not yet met with any such produced , and therefore shall see what consequences can be made of a binding nature . to this i say , that no consequences can be deduced to make an institution , but onely to apply one to particular cases : because positives are in themselves indifferent without institution and divine appointment ; and therefore that must be directly brought for the making a positive universally binding , which it doth not in its own nature do . now here must be an institution of something meerly positive supposed , which in its self is of an indifferent nature ; and therefore no consequence drawn can suffice to make it unalterably binding , without express declaration that such a thing shall so bind ; for what is not in its own nature moral , binds only by vertue of a command , which command must be made known by the will of christ , so that we may understand its obligatory nature . so that both a consequence must be necessarily drawn , and the obligation of what shall be so drawn must be expressed in scripture : which i despair of ever finding in reference to any one form of government in the church . . if the standing laws for church-government be equally applyable to several distinct forms , then no one form is prescribed in scripture ; but all the standing lawes respecting church-government , are equally applyable to several forms : all the lawes occurring in scripture respecting church government , may be referred to these three heads . such as set down the qualifications of the persons for the office of government , such as require a right management of their office , and such as lay down rules for the management of their office. now all these are equally applyable to either of these two forms we now discourse of . we begin then with those which set down the qualifications of persons employed in government , those we have largely and fully set down by st. paul in his order to timothy and titus , prescribing what manner of persons those should be who are to be employed in the government of the church . a bishop must be blamelesse as the steward of god , not self-willed , not soon angry , not given to wine , no striker , &c. all these , and the rest of the qualifications mentioned , are equally required as necessary in a bishop , whether taken for one of a superiour order above presbyters , or else only for a single presbyter ; however that be , if he hath a hand in church-government , he must be such a one as the apostle prescribes ; and so these commands to timothy and titus given by paul , do equally respect and concern them , whether we consider them as evangelists acting by an extraordinary commission , or as fixed pastors over all the churches in their several precincts ; so that from the commands themselves nothing can be inferred either way to determine the question ; only one place is pleaded for the perpetuity of the office timothy was employed in , which must now be examined : the place is tim. . , . i give thee charge in the sight of god , &c. that thou keep this commandement without spot , unrebukable , untill the appearing of our lord iesus christ. from hence it is argued thus : the commandment here was the charge which timothy had of governing the church ; this timothy could not keep personally till christs second coming ; therefore there must be a succession of officers in the same kind till the second coming of christ. but this is easily answered . for first , it is no wayes certain what this command was which st. paul speaks of ; some understand it of fighting the good fight of faith , others of the precept of love , others most probably the sum of all contained in this epistle , which i confesse implies in it ( as being one great part of the epistle ) pauls direction of timothy for the right discharging of his office ; but , granting that the command respects timothy's office , yet i answer , secondly , it manifestly appears to be something personal , and not successive ; or at least nothing can be inferr'd for the necessity of such a succession from this place which it was brought for : nothing being more evident then that this command related to timothy's personal observance of it . and therefore thirdly , christs appearing here , is not meant of his second coming to judgement , but it only imports the time of timothy's decease ; so chrysostome , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so estius understands it , usque ad exitum vitae ; and for that end brings that speech of augustine , tun● unicuique veniet dies adventûs domini , cum venerit ei dies , ut talis hinc exeat , qualis ▪ judicandus est illo die . and the reason why the time of his death is set out by the coming of christ , is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as chrysostome , and from him theophylact observes , to incite him the more , both to diligence in his work and patience under sufferings , from the consideration of christs appearance . the plain meaning of the words then is the same with that , revel . . . be thou faithful unto death , and i will give thee a crown of life . nothing then can be hence inferred as to the necessary succession of some in timothy's office , whatever it is supposed to be . secondly , the precepts of the gospel requiring a right management of the work , are equally applyable to either form . taking heed to the flock over which god hath made them overseers , is equally a duty ; whether by flock we understand either the particular church of ephesus , or the adjacent churches of asia ; whether by overseers we understand some acting over others , or all joyning together in an equality . so exhorting , reproving , preaching in season and out of season , doing all things 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , without rash censures and partiality ; watching over the flock as they that must give an account : laying hands suddenly on no man : rebuking not an elder , but under two or three witnesses . and whatever precepts of this nature we read in the epistles of timothy and titus , may be equally applyable to men acting in either of these two forms of government : there being no precept occurring in all those epistles prescribing to timothy , whether he must act only as a consul in senatu with the consent of the presbytery , or whether by his sole power he should determine what was the common interest , and concern of those churches he was the superintendent over . neither doth the apostle determine at all in those epistles chiefly concerning church-government , whether upon the removal of timothy or titus thence as evangelists , as some pretend , or upon their death as fixed pastors and bishops , as others , any should succeed them in the power they enjoyed , or no : nor in what manner the pastors of the several churches should order things of common concernment , which would seem to be a strange omission , were either of these two forms so necessary , taken exclusively of the other , as both parties seem to affirm . for we cannot conceive but if the being and right constitution of a church did depend upon the manner of the governours acting in it , but that care which paul had over all the churches would have prompted him ( especially being assisted and guided by an infallible spirit in the penning those epistles ) to have laid down some certain rules for the acting of the pastors of the churches after the departure of timothy and titus . considering especially that the epistles then written by him , were to be of standing perpetual use in the church of god ; and by which the churches in after-ages were to be guided as well as those that were then in being . the apostle in both epistles takes care for a succession of pastors in those churches : timothy is charged to commit the things he had heard of paul to faithful men ; who shall be fit to teach others . had it not been as requisite to have charged him to have committed his power of government to men fit for that , had the apostles looked on the form of government to be as necessary as the office of preaching ? paul saith , he left titus in creete on purpose to settle the churches and ordain presbyters in every city : had it not been as necessary to have shewed in what order the churches must be setled , and what power did belong to those presbyters , and how they should act in the governing their churches , had he thought the constitution of the churches did depend upon the form of their acting ? we see here then , that st. paul doth not expresse any thing necessarily inferring any one constant form to be used in the church of god , and whence can we inferr any necessity of it , but from the scriptures laying it down as a duty that such a form and no other there must be used in the church of god ? for all that we can see then by pauls direction for church-government , ( when if ever , this should have been expressed ) it was left to the christian wisdome and prudence of the churches of ephesus and creet to consult and determine in what manner the government of their churches should be provided for , upon the departure of timothy and titus from them . but here it will be soon replyed , that though nothing be expressed in pauls epistles to timothy and titus , yet pauls appointing timothy and titus over those churches , did determine the form of government , and they were entrusted with a power to provide for future governours after them . to this ●answer : first , the superiority which timothy and titus had over those churches , doth not prove that form of government necessary in all churches ; i dispute not whether they were evangelists or no , or acted as such in that superiority ( of that afterwards ) it is evident they might be so ; there being no convincing argument to the contrary . and the bare possibility of the truth of the negative , destroys the necessity of the affirmative of a proposition . as , si posibile est , hominem non esse animal , then that proposition is false , necesse est hominem esse animal . for , necesse est esse , and non possibile est non esse , being ●quipollents on the one side ; and possibile est non esse , et non necesse est esse , being ●quipollents on the other ; possibile est non esse , must be contradictory to necesse est esse , as non possibile est non esse , is to non necesse est esse . so that if only the possibility of their acting as evangelists , that is , by an extraordinary commission , be evicted , which i know none will deny ; the necessity of their acting as fixed bishops is destroyed , and consequently the necessity of the continuance of their office too , which depends upon the former . for if they acted not as bishops , nothing can be drawn from their example necessarily inforcing the continuance of the superiority which they enjoyed . but though nothing can be inferred from hence as to the necessity of that office to continue in the church , which timothy and titus were invested in ; yet from the superiority of that power which they enjoyed over those churches , whether as evangelists , or as fixed bishops , these two things may be inferred . first , that the superiority of some church-officers over others , is not contrary to the rule of the gospel : for all parties acknowledge the superiority of their power above the presbyters of the several cityes ; only the continuance of this power ●● disputed by many . but if they had any such power at all , it is enough for my present design , viz. that such a superiority is not contrary to the gospel-rule : or that the nature of the government of the church doth not imply a necessary equality among the governours of it . secondly , hence i infer , that it is not repugnant to the constitution of churches in apostolical times , for men to have power over more than one particular congregation . for such a power timothy and titus had , which had it been contrary to the nature of the regiment of churches , we should never have read of in the first planted churches . so that if those popular arguments of a necessary relation between a pastor and particular people , of personal knowledge , care and inspection , did destroy the lawfulnesse of extending that care and charge to many particular congregations , they would likewise overthrow the nature , end and design of the office which timothy and titus acted in : which had a relation to a multitude of particular and congregational churches . whether their power was extraordinary or no , i now dispute not ; but whether such a power be repugnant to the gospel or no ; which from their practice is evident that it is not . but then others who would make this office necessary , urge further , that timothy or titus might ordain and appoint others to succeed them in their places and care over all those churches under their charge . to which i answer , first , what they might do is not the question , but what they did , as they might do it ; so they might not do it , if no other evidence be brought to prove it : for , quod possibile est esse , possibile ●st non esse . secondly , neither what they did , is the whole question , but what they did with an opinion of the necessity of doing it , whether they were bound to do it or no ? and if so , whether by any law extant in scripture , and given them by paul in his epistles , or some private command and particular instructions when he deputed them to their several charges : if the former , that law and command must be produced , which will hardly be , if we embrace only the received canon of the scripture . if the latter ▪ we must then fetch some standing rule and law from unwritten traditions : for no other evidence can be given of the instructions by word of mouth , given by paul to timothy and titus at the taking their charges upon them . but yet thirdly , were it only the matter of fact that was disputed , that would hold a controversie still , viz. whether any did succeed timothy and titus in their offices : but this i shall leave to its proper place to be discussed , when i come to examine the argument from apostolical succession . thus we see then that neither the qualification of the persons , nor the commands for a right exercise of the office committed to them , nor the whole epistles to timothy and titus , do determine any one form of government to be necessary in the church of god. thirdly , let us see whether the general rules do require any one form ; which rules in that they are general , can determine nothing of the authority it self as to its particular mode , being intended only for the regulation of the exercise of the authority in which men are placed . and it is an evidence that nothing is particularly determined in this case , when the spirit of god only lays down such rules for government which are applyable to distinct forms . otherwise , certainly some rule would have been laid down , which could have been applyed to nothing but to that one form . that none take the office of preaching without a call , nor go without sending , will equally hold whether the power of ordination lye in a bishop with presbyters , or in presbyters acting with equality of power , that offenders be censured , and complaints made to the church in case of scandal , determines nothing to whom the power of jurisdiction doth solely belong , nor what that church is which must receive these complaints . that all things be done with decency and order , doth prescribe nothing wherein that decency lyes , nor how far that order may extend ; nor yet who must be the judges of that decency and order . that all be done for edification , and the common benefit of the church , doth no wayes restrain his churches freedom in disposing of its self as to the form of its government , so the aym of the church be for the better edification of the body of the church , and to promote the benefit of it . but methinks , these general orders and rules for discipline do imply the particular manner of government to be left at liberty to the church of god , so that in all the several forms these general rules be observed . whereas had christ appointed a superiour order to govern other subordinate officers and the church together ; christs command for governing the church would have been particularly addressed to them : and again , had it been the will of christ there should be no superior order above the pastours of particular churches , there would have been some expresse and direct prohibition of it ; which because we no where read ; it seems evident that christ hath left both the one and the other to the freedom and liberty of his church . so much shall serve in this place , to shew how improbable it is that christ did ever prescribe any one form of government in his church , since he hath only laid down general rules for the management of church government . but this will not yet suffice those , who plead that christ must determine one immutable form of government in his church : but although it be a high presumption to determine first what christ must do , before we examine what he hath done , yet we shall still proceed and examine all the pretences that are brought for this opinion . the next thing then which is generally urged for it , is , the equal necessity of christs instituting a certain form as for any other legislator who models a common-wealth . now for answer to this , i say first , that christ hath instituted such an immutable government in his church , as is sufficient for the succession and continuance of it , which is all which founders of common-wealths do look after , viz. that there be such an order and distinction of persons , and subordination of one to the other , that a society may still be preserved among them ; now this is sufficiently provided for by christs appointing officers continually to rule his church , and establishing laws for the perpetuating of such officers ; so whatsoever is necessary in order to the general ends of government is acknowledged to be appointed by jesus christ. untill then that it be proved that one form of government is in it self absolutely necessary for the being of a church , this argument can prove nothing ▪ for what is drawn from necessity , will prove nothing but in a case of necessity . secondly , i answer , that those things which are not absolutely necessary to the being of a church , are left to christs liberty , whether he will determine them or no ; and are no further to be looked on as necessary then as he hath determined by his laws whether they shall be or no , in his church . the thing will be thus cleared . when i read that zaleucus , lycurgus , or numa , did form a common-wealth and make laws for it ; i presently conclude that there must be some order or distinction of persons in this common wealth ; and some rules whereby persons must be governed , and whereby others must rule : but i cannot hence inferr that zaleucus , or lycurgus did institute monarchical , aristocratical , or democratical government , because any of these forms might be agreeable to their design ; and therefore what kind of government they did appoint , can no otherwise be known then by taking a view of the laws which they made in order thereto . so it is in reference to christ , when we read that christ hath instituted a church alwayes to continue in the world , we presently apprehend that there must be some power and order in the members of that society , and laws for the governing it : but we cannot hence gather that he hath bound up his officers to act in any one form , because several forms might in themselves equally tend to the promoting the end of government in his church . and therefore what christ hath expresly determined in his positive laws , must be our rule of judging in this case , and not any presumption of our own , that such a form was necessary , and therefore christ must institute and appoint it , which is fully expressed by judicious mr. hooker , whose words will serve as a sufficient answer to this objection . as for those marvellous discourses , whereby they adventure to argue , that god must needs have done the thing which they imagine was to be done ; i must confesse , i have often wondred at their exceeding boldnesse herein . when the question is , whether god have delivered in scripture ( as they affirm he hath ) a compleat particular immutable form of church-polity : why take they that other , both presumptuous and superfluous labour , to prove he should have done it : there being no way in this case to prove the deed of god , saving only by producing that evidence wherein he hath done it ? but if there be no such thing apparent upon record , they do as if one should demand a legacy , by force and vertue of some written testament , wherein there being no such thing specified , he pleadeth that there it must needs be , and bringeth arguments from the love and good will which alwayes the testator bore , imagining that these or the like proofs will convict a testament to have that in it , which other men can no where by reading find . in matters which concern the actions of god , the most dutiful way on our part , is , to search what god hath done , and with meekness to admire that , rather then to dispute what he in congru●ty of reason ought to do . thus he , with more to the same purpose . the sum then of the answer to this argument , is this , that nothing can be inferred of what christ must do , from his relation to his church , but what is absolutely necessary to the being of it ; as for all other things , they being arbitrary constitutions , we can judge no more of the necessity of them , then as we find them clearly revealed in the word of god. and therefore the plea must be removed from what christ must do , to what he hath done , in order to the determining the particular form of government in his church . but still it is argued for the necessity of a particular form of government in the church from the similitudes the church is set out by in scripture ; it is called a vine , and therefore must have keepers : an house , and therefore must have government ; a city , and therefore must have a polity ; a body , and therefore must have parts . i answer , first , all these similitudes prove only that which none deny , that there must be order , power , and government in the church of god ; we take not away the keepers from the vine , nor the government from ▪ the house , nor polity from the city , nor distinction of parts from the body ; we assert all these things as necessary in the church of god. the keepers of the vine to defend and prune it ; the governours of the house to rule and order it ; the polity of the city to guide and direct it ; the parts of the body to compleat and adorn it . but secondly ; none of these similitudes prove what they are brought for ; viz. that any one immutable form of government is determined . for may not the keepers of the vine use their own discretion in looking to it , so the flourishing of the vine be that they aym at ? and if there be many of them , may there not be different orders among them , and some as supervisors of the others work ? the house must have governours ; but those that are so , are entrusted with the power of ordering things in the house according to their own discretion ; and where there is a multitude , is there not diversity of offices among them ? and is it necessary that every house must have offices of the same kind ? in great and large families there must be more particular distinct orders and offices , than in a small and little one . the city must have its polity ; but all cities have not the like ; some have one form , and some another , and yet there is a city still and a polity too . a body must have all its parts ; but are all the parts of the body equal one to another ? it sufficeth that there be a proportion , though not equality in them : the several parts of the body have their several offices , and yet we see the head is superintendent over them all : and thus if we make every particular church a body , yet it follows not that the form of cloathing that body must alwayes be the same ▪ for the manner of government is rather the cloathing to the body than the parts of it , the governours indeed are parts of the body ; but their manner of governing is not , that may alter according to the proportion and growth of the body , and its fashion change for better conveniency . but if these similitudes prove nothing ; yet certainly , say they , the difference as to civil and ecclesiastical government will ; for though there may be different forms in civil government , which are therefore call'd an ordinance of man ; yet there must be but one in church-government , which is an ordinance of god , and christ hath appointed officers to rule it . i answer , first , we grant and acknowledge a difference between the church and the common-wealth , they are constituted for other ends ; the one political , the other spiritual ; one temporal , the other eternal ; they subsist by different charters ; the one given to men as men , the other to men as christians : they act upon different principles ; the one to preserve civil rights , the other to promote an eternal interest ; nay , their formal constitution is different ; for a man by being a member of a common-wealth doth not become a member of the church , and by being excommunicated out of the church ▪ doth not cease to be a member of the common-wealth : the officers of the one are clearly distinct from the other , the one deriving their power from the law of christ , the other from gods general providence : the magistrate hath no power to excommunicate formally out of the church any more then to admit into it , nor have the church-officers any power to cast men out of the common-wealth . we see then there is a difference between civil and ecclesiastical government : but then i answer , secondly , the power of the magistrate is not therefore called an ordinance of man , because of the mutability of its form , and as distinguished from the form of church-government . for first , the apostle speaks not of the form of government , but of the power ; submit to every ordinance of man , &c. the ground of submission is not the form , but the power of civil government ; and therefore there can be no opposition expressed here between the forms of civil and ecclesiastical government : but if any such opposition be , it must be between the powers ; and if this be said as to civils , that the power is an ordinance of man in that sense , ( whereas paul saith it is of god ) yet as to the church it is freely acknowledged that the power is derived from god. secondly , the civil power is not called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because it is a creature of mans making , and so subject to mens power ; but the ground of that speech is , because all civil power respects men as men , without any further connotation . humana dicitur , non quod ab hominibus sit excogitata , sed quod hominum sit propria , saith beza . and to the same purpose calvin , humana dicitur ordinatio , non quod humanitùs inventa fuerit ; sed quod propria hominum est digesta & ordinata vivendi ratio . piscator , humanam appellat , non quod magistratus homines authores habeat , sed quod homines eam gerant . so then the civil power is not called an ordinance of man , as it is of mans setting up , but as it is proper to man ; and so if there be any opposition between the civil and church power , it is onely this , that the one belongs to men as men , the other to men as christians . thirdly , although it be granted that christ hath appointed and set up his own officers in his church ; yet it doth not thence follow that he hath determined in what manner they shall rule his church . it is true , christ hath set up in his church , some apostles , some evangelists , and some pastours and teachers : but it doth not thence follow , that christ hath determined , whether the power of apostles and evangelists should continue in his church or no , as it implied superiority over the ordinary pastors of the churches ; nor whether the pastors of the church should act in an equality in their governing churches . i grant , that all church-government must be performed by officers of christs appointing ; but that which i say is not determined in scripture , is , the way and manner whereby they shall govern churches in common . it is yet further argued , that if the form of church government be not immutably determined in scripture , then it is in the churches power , to make new officers which christ never made , which must be a plain addition to the lawes of christ , and must argue the scripture of imperfection . this being one of the main arguments , i have reserved it to the place of the triarii , and shall now examine what strength there lies in it . to this therefore i answer , first , those officers are onely said to be new , which were never appointed by christ , and are contrary to the first appointments of christ for the regulating of his church ; such it is granted the church hath no power to institute : but if by new officers be meant onely such as have a charge over more then one particular congregation by the consent of the pastours themselves ; then it is evident , such an office cannot be said to be new . for , besides the general practice of the church of god , from the first primitive times which have all consented in the use of such officers ; we finde the foundation of this power laid by christ himself in the power which the apostles were invested in , which was extended over many , both churches and pastours . but if it be said , the apostolical power being extraordinary , must cease with the persons which enjoyed it : i answer : first , what was extraordinary did cease ; but all the dispute is , what was extraordinary , and what not ; some things were ordinary in them , as preaching , baptizing , ordaining , ruling churches ; some things were again extraordinary , as immediate mission from christ ( the main distinguishing note of an apostle ) a power of working miracles to confirm the truth of what they preached . now the question is , whether the power which they enjoyed over presbyters and churches , be to be reckoned in the first or the second number . it must therefore be proved to be extraordinary , before it can be said to cease with them , and that must be done by some arguments proper to their persons ; for if the arguments brought be of a common and moral nature , it will prove the office to be so too . secondly , by ceasing may be meant either ceasing as to its necessity , or ceasing as to its lawfulness : i say not , but that the necessity of the office , as in their persons , for the first preaching and propagating the gospel , did cease with them ; but , that after their death it became unlawful for any particular persons to take the care and charge of diocesan churches , i deny . for to make a thing unlawfull which was before lawfull , there must be some expresse prohibition forbidding any further use of such a power , which i suppose men will not easily produce in the word of god. i answer therefore secondly , that the extending of any ministerial power , is not the appointing of any new office ; because every minister of the gospel hath a relation in actu primo to the whole church of god : the restraint and inlargement of which power is subject to positive determinations of prudence and conveniency in actu secundo ; and therefore if the church see it fit for some men to have this power enlarged for better government in some , and restrained in others , that inlargement is the appointing no new office , but the making use of a power already enjoyed for the benefit of the church of god. this being a foundation tending so fully to clear the lawfulnesse of that government in the church which implies a superiority and subordination of the officers of the church to one another : and the churches using her prudence in ordering the bounds of her officers , i shall do these two things . first , shew that the power of every minister of the gospel doth primarily and habitually respect the church in common . secondly , that the church may in a peculiar manner single out some of its officers for the due administration of ecclesiastical power . first , that every minister of the gospel hath a power respecting the church in common : this i find fully and largely proved by those who assert the equality of the power of ministers ; first , from christs bestowing the several offices of the church , for the use of the whole church , ephesians , . , . christ hath set apostles , &c. pastours and teachers in his church ; now this church must needs be the catholicke visible church , because indisputably the apostles office did relate thereto , and consequently so must that of pastours and teachers too : again , the end of these offices is the building up the body of christ , which cannot otherwise be understood then of his whole church : else christ must have as many bodies as the church hath partiticular congregations . which is a new way of consubstantiation . secondly , the ministerial office was in being before any particular congregations were gathered : for christ upon his ascension to glory gave these gifts to men ; and the apostles were impowered by christ before his ascension , either then they were no church officers , or if they were so , they could have no other correlate , but the whole body of the church of god then lying under the power of darkness , a few persons excepted . thirdly , because the main designe of appointing a gospel ministry was the conversion of heathens and infidels : and if these be the proper object of the ministerial function , then the office must have reference to the whole church of christ ; else there could be no part of that office performed towards those who are not yet converted . fourthly , else a minister can perform no office belonging to him as such beyond the bounds of his particular congregation , and so can neither preach nor administer the sacraments to any other but within the bounds of his own particular place and people . fifthly , because ministers by baptizing do admit men into the catholike visible church , ( else a man must be baptized again every time he removes from one church to another ) and none can admit beyond what their office doth extend to ; therefore it is evident that every particular pastor of a church hath a relation to the whole church ; to which purpose our former observation is of great use ; viz. that particular congregations are not of gods primary intention , but for mens conveniency , and so consequently is the fixedness of particular pastors to their several places for the greater conveniency of the church ; every pastor of a church then hath a relation to the whole church ; and that which hinders him from the exercise of this power , is not any unlawfulnesse in the thing , but the preserving of order and conveniency in the church of god. this being premised , i say , secondly , that the officers of the church may in a peculiar manner attribute a larger and more extensive power to some particular persons for the more convenient exercise of their common power . we have seen already that their power extends to the care of the churches in common , that the restraint of this power is a matter of order and decency in the church of god ; now in matters of common concernment , without all question it is not unlawful when the church judgeth it most for edification , to grant to some the executive part of that power , which is originally and fundamentally common to them all . for our better understanding of this , we must consider a twofold power belonging to church-officers , a power of order , and a power of jurisdiction ; for in every presbyter , there are some things inseparably joyned to his function , and belonging to every one in his personal capacity , both in actu primo , and in actu secundo , both as to the right and power to do it , and the exercise and execution of that power ; such are preaching the word , visiting the sick , administring sacraments . &c. but there are other things which every presbyter hath an aptitude , and a jus to , in actu primo , but the limitation and exercise of that power doth belong to the church in common , and belong not to any one personally , but by a further power of choice or delegation to it , such is the power of visiting churches , taking care that particular pastors discharge their duty ; such is the power of ordination and church censures , and making rules for decency in the church ; this is that we call the power of jurisdiction . now this latter power , though it belongs habitually and in actu primo to every presbyter ; yet being about matters of publike and common concernment , some further authority in a church constituted is necessary , besides the power of order ; and when this power , either by consent of the pastors of the church , or by the appointment of a christian magistrate , or both , is devolved to some particular persons , though quoad aptitudinem the power remain in every presbyter , yet quoad executionem it belongs to those who are so appointed . and therefore camero determins that , ordinatio non fit à pastore quatenus pastor est , sed quatenus ad tempus singularem authoritatem obtinet , i. e. that ordination doth not belong to the power of order but to the power of jurisdiction , and therefore is subject to positive restraints , by prudential determinations . by this we may understand how lawfull the exercise of an episcopal power may be in the church of god , supposing an equality in all church-officers as to the power of order . and how incongruously they speak , who supposing an equality in the presbyters of churches at first , do cry out , that the church takes upon her the office of christ , if she delegates any to a more peculiar exercise of the power of jurisdiction . the last thing pleaded why an immutable form of church-government must be laid down in scripture , is , from the perfection and sufficiency of the scriptures ; because otherwise the scriptures would be condemned of imperfection . but this will receive an easie dispatch : for , first , the controversie about the perfection of the scriptures , is not concerning an essential or integral perfection , but a perfection ratione finis & effectuum in order to its end ; now the end of it , is to be an adaequate rule of faith and manners , and sufficient to bring men to salvation ; which it is sufficiently acknowledged to be , if all things necessary to be believed or practised be contained in the word of god : now that which we assert not to be fully laid down in scripture , is not pleaded to be any wayes necessary , nor to be a matter of faith , but something left to the churches liberty ; but here it is said by some , that this is adding to the law of god , which destroyes the scriptures perfection ; therefore i answer : secondly , whatever is done with an opinion of the necessity of doing it , destroyes the scriptures perfection if it be not contained in it : for that were to make it an imperfect rule ; and in this sense every additio perficiens is additio corrumpens , because it takes away from the perfection of the rule which it is added to : and thus popish traditions are destructive of the scriptures sufficiency . but the doing of any thing not positively determined in scripture , not looking upon it as a thing we are bound to do from the necessity of the thing , and observing the general rules of scripture in the doing it , is far from destroying the perfection or sufficiency of the word of god. thirdly , all essentials of church-government are contained clearly in scripture : the essentials of church-government , are such as are necessary to the preservation of such a society as the church is : now all these things have been not only granted , but proved to be contained in scripture ; but whatever is not so necessary in its self , can only become necessary by vertue of gods express command ; and what is not so commanded , is accidental , and circumstantial , and a matter of christian liberty , and such we assert the form of church-government to be . it is not our work to enquire , why god hath determined some things that might seem more circumstantial than this , and left other things at liberty ; but whether god hath determined these things or no. which determination being once cleared , makes the thing so commanded necessary as to our observance of it ; but if no such thing be made appear , the thing remains a matter of liberty , and so the scriptures perfection as to necessaries in order to salvation , is no wayes impeached by it . so much now for the necessity of christs determining the particular form of government : we now proceed to the consideration of christs actions , whether by them the form of church-government is determined or no ? chap. v. whether any of christs actions have determined the form of government . all power in christs hands for governing his church : what order christ took in order thereto when he was in the world. calling apostles the first action respecting outward government : the name and office of apostles cleared ; an equality among them proved during our saviours life . peter not made monarch of the church by christ. the apostles power over the seventy disciples considered , with the nature and quality of their office , matth. . , , . largely discussed and explained . it makes not all inequality in church officers unlawful ; by the difference of apostles and pastors of churches , matth. . . how far that determins the form of church-government . no evidence of any exact order for church-government from thence , matth. . , , . considered how far that concerns the government of the church . having considered and answered the arguments which are brought , why christ must determine the particular form of government : our next task will be to enquire into those actions of our saviour which are conceived to have any plausible aspect towards the setling the form of government in his church . and were it not that men are generally so wedded to an hypothesis they have once drunk in by the prevalency of interest or education , we might have been superseded from our former labour , but that men are so ready to think that opinion to be most necessary , which they are most in love with , and have appeared most zealous for . men are loth to be perswaded that they have spent so much breath to so little purpose , and have been so hot and eager for somewhat , which at last appears to be a matter of christian liberty . therefore we finde very few that have been ever very earnest in the maintaining or promoting any matter of opinion , but have laid more weight upon it , than it would really bear ; lest men should think , that with all their sweat and toile , they only beat the ayr , and break their teeth in cracking a nut , with a hole in it ; which if they had been so wise as to discern before , they might have saved their pains for somewhat which would have better recompenced them . but thus it generally fares with men ; they suck in principles according as interest and education disposeth them , which being once in , have the advantage of insinuating themselves into the understanding , and thereby raise a prejudice against whatever comes to disturb them ; which prejudice being the yellow-jaundise of the soul , leaves such a tincture upon the eyes of the understanding , that till it be cured of that icterism , it cannot discern things in their proper colours . now this prejudice is raised by nothing more strongly , than when the opinion received is entertained , upon a presumption that there is a divine stamp and impress upon it , though no such effigies be discernable there . hence come all the several contending parties about church-government , equally to plead an interest in this ius divinum , and whatever opinion they have espoused , they presently conceive it to be of no lesse than divine extract and original , and as it sometimes was with great personages among the heathens , when their miscarriages were discernable to the eye of the world , the better to palliate them among the vulgar , they gave themselves out to be impreguated by some of their adored deities ; so i fear it hath been among some whose religion should have taught them better things , when either faction , design , or interest , hath formed some conceptions within them suitable thereunto , to make them the more passable to the world , they are brought forth under the pretence of divine truths . far be it from me to charge any sincere , humble , sober christians with an offence of so high a nature , who yet may be possessed with some mistakes and apprehensions of this nature ; but these are only wrought on by the masters of parties , who know , unlesse they fly so high , they shall never hit the game they aym at . this is most discernable in the factors for the roman omnipotency ( as paulus the fifth was call'd omnipotentiae pontifici● conservaton ) ; they who see not that interest and faction upholds that court rather then church , may well be presumed to be hood-winked with more then an implicite faith ; and yet if we believe the great supporters of that interest , the power they plead for is plainly given them from christ himself ; and not only offer to prove that it was so , but that it was not consistent with the wisdom of christ that it should be otherwise . lest i should seem to wrong those of any religion , hear what the author of the gloss upon the extravagants ( so they may be well called ) saith to this purpose , applying that place of our saviour , all power is given to me in heaven and earth , matthew . . to the pope , adds these words , non videretur dominus discretas fuisse , ut cum reverentia ejus loquar ; nisi unicum post se talem vicarium reliquisset , qui hac omnia posset . we see by this , what blasphemies men may run into , when they argue from their private fancies and opinions , to what must be done by the law of christ. it therefore becomes all sober christians impartially to enquire what christ hath done , and to ground their opinions only upon that , without any such presumptuous intrusions into the counsels of heaven . we here therefore take our leave of the dispute , why it was necessary a form of government should be established , and now enter upon a survey of those grounds which are taken from any passages of our saviour , commonly produced as a foundation for any particular forms . i shall not stand to prove , that christ as mediator hath all the power over the church in his own hands , it being a thing so evident from scripture , and so beyond all dispute with those whom i have to deal with . in which respect he is the only head of the church , and from whom all divine right for authority in the church must be derived . which right can arise only from some actions or laws of christ , which we therefore now search into . the first publike action of christ after his solemn entrance upon his office , which can be conceived to have any reference to the government of his church , was , the calling the apostles . in whom for our better methodizing this discourse , we shall observe these three ●everal steps . first , when they were called to be christs disciples . secondly , when christ sent them out with a power of miracles . thirdly , when he gave them their full commission of acting with apostolical power all the world over . these three seasons are accurately to be distinguished ; for ●he apostles did not enjoy so great power when they were ●isciples , as when they were sent abroad by christ ; neither had ●hey any proper power of church-government after that ●●nding forth , till after christs resurrection , when christ told ●hem , all power was put into his hands , and therefore gave them ●●ll commission to go and preach the gospel to all nations . the first step then we observe in the apostles towards their power of church-government , was in their first calling to be disciples . two several calls are observed in scripture concerning the apostles : the first was more general , when they were called only to follow christ ; the second more special , when christ told them what he called them to , and specified and described their office to them , by telling them he would make them fishers of men. we shall endeavour to digest the order of their calling as clearly and as briefly as we ●an . our blessed saviour about the thirtieth year of his age , solemnly entering upon the discharge of his prophetical office , in making known himself to be the true messias to the world , to make his appearance more publike , goes to iordan , and is there baptized of iohn ; presently after he is led up by the spirit into the wildernesse , where he continued forty dayes . in this space of time iohn removes from iordan , and comes on the other side to bethabara ; thither christ comes to iohn ; iohn not only owns christ himself , but tells his disciples , this was he into whose name he had baptized them . upon this , two of iohn's disciples leave their master and follow christ. these two are the first disciples we ever read our saviour had ; whereof the one was andrew , peters brother , and the other probably conceived to be iohn ( it being his custom to conceal his name when he speaks of himself ) andrew calls his brother peter ; christ next day calls philip , philip he finds nathaniel ; and this , as far as we read , was the first number of christs disciples . here we find two or three gathered together in the name of christ , and christ ( truly ) in the midst of them . these disciples it appears staid with christ sometime , for they went with him to the marriage in cana : and after went up with him to ierusalem , when many professed to be his disciples ; from thence he goes into iudea , where he gathers many disciples , and baptizeth them . after this he returns with his disciples by the way of samaria into galilee : and these disciples being now again at home , in probability did return for their livelyhood to their old employments for some small time , christ having not yet commanded them to forsake all and follow him . not long after ( about a years space from the first calling them ) iesus being in galilee , goes to the lake of genezareth , there he finds andrew and peter fishing : after the miracle there wrought , he then in a more solemn manner calls them to leave their employment , for he had ▪ designed them for a greater , which was to be fishers of men. whereby our saviour expresseth the care , pains , diligence , design and end of the ministerial function he had appointed them for . andrew and peter presently leave all and follow christ ; the like do iames and iohn whom they met with , a little further upon the shore . and now those who were before but as common disciples , are admitted into a higher order , and bred up by christ as persons designed for an employment of so high a nature . we see here a necessity of making a double call of the apostles ; else it were impossible to reconcile the narration of iohn with the other evangelists . therefore augustine thinks their first being with christ in iohn , was only for present satisfaction who he was , which assoon as they understood and admired , they returned to their own habitations . thomas , he makes three several callings of them ; the first ad agnitionem & familiaritatem , which is that in iohn ; the second ad discipulatum , that spoken of in luke . . the third ad adh●sionem , matth. . . mark . . but i see no reason to make the story in luke to be different from that of matthew and mark ; the former some say , was vocatio ad fidem , a general preparatory call to the latter ; the latter was vocatio ad munus apostolicum , although they were not chosen to be apostles till afterwards , yet now christ made them candidores of the apostleship , & amicos interioris admissionis , in order to that great employment he had designed them for . further , we must take notice that from the time of the baptism of iohn , the apostles did generally continue with christ , which appears from the qualification of an apostle given by peter at the choyce of matthias ; of those men which have companied with us all the time that the lord iesus went in and out among us , beginning from the baptism of john , unto that same day he was taken up from us . the strength of which tehimony is impregnable , for proving that the apostles did generally continue with christ after their being called to follow him ; but that time from the baptism of iohn must not be taken strictly ; for many of the apostles , as matthew , &c. were not called till some time after . about four moneths after christs more solemn calling of the apostles , at the time ▪ of pentecost , as chemnitius conjectures , our saviour proceeds to a solemn choyce of them into their office , which is described by luk. . . after he had prayed the whole night before v. . mark ▪ he acquaints us with the ends of christs choosing them . first , that they might continually attend upon him , the better to be fitted for their employment afterwards ; which he expresseth , when he adds , that he might send them out to preach , and to give them power over devils and diseases , to cast out the one , and to cure the other . their actual sending out was not ( say some ) till half a year after , which is the story related by mat. . . near a twelve-moneth ( say others ) but presently upon their choyce christ makes the sermon in the mount , as appears by comparing luk. . , . with mat. . . wherein among other things , our saviour takes occasion ▪ to declare their duty to them , telling them , they were the light of the world , &c. which he doth , the more to fit them for the discharge of their employment . having thus laid these things together about the apostles , from their first calling to the time of their mission , we shall take notice of those things from them which may relate to the office which the apostles were called to , and to the government of the church by them . first , we here observe , that our saviour no sooner began to preach the gospel himself , but he made choyce of some persons as a peculiar order of men for the propagation of the gospel in the world. the peculiarity of the function of a gospel-ministry under christ was , we see , designed from christs first publike appearance in his office : he might have left the apostles in the common order of disciples , had he not intended an office in his church distinct and peculiar from all other employments ; and therefore it is observable , that christ did not call the ▪ apostles off from their other employments , till he designed to make them apostles ; before , when they were only private disciples , they did follow their employments at some times still ; but when he calls them to be fishers of men , be bids them leave all and follow him . secondly , we take notice of the admirable wisdom of our saviour in the choice he made of the persons for first founding his church ▪ and the means he used to fit them for it . the persons were such as were most suitable to his design ; the means such as were most suitable to the persons . the persons were such , who by reason of the known meanness of their condition , and supposed weakness of abilities , were the fittest to convince the world , that the doctrine which they preached was not the product of humane wisdom , but the express image and character of divine truth ; whose nakednesse and simplicity would gain more upon mens belief by the power which accompanied the preaching of it , then the most refined and sublimated notions of their wise men should do , managed with the greatest subtilty and prudence by the maintainers of them . christ would make men see that his doctrine stood not in need either of the wisdom or power of men , to defend or propagate it ▪ and therefore made choice of the most unlikely instruments for that end , that mens faith should not stand in the wisdom of men , but in the power of god. but withall , we are to take notice of christs admirable wisdom in the means he used to fit and qualifie them for the first builders of his church ; for although the power and efficacy of their preaching was wholly from god , and not from themselves , yet our saviour doth not ▪ presenly upon his calling them , place them in the highest office he intended them for , but proceeds gradually with them , and keeps them a long time under his own eye and instruction , before he sends them abroad : and that for two ends chiefly : first , to be witnesses of his actions . secondly , to be auditors of his doctrine . first , to be witnesses of his actions , which was looked on by the apostles , as the most necessary qualification for an apostle in the place fore-cited , acts . , . peter calls himself a witnesse of the sufferings of christ , pet. . . iohn saith , that which was from the beginning , which we have heard , which we have seen with our eyes , which we have looked upon , and our h●●ds have handled of the word of life ; that which we have seen and heard , declare we unto you , john . , . whereby the credibility of the gospel was sufficiently evidenced to the world , when the chief preachers of it spoke nothing but what their own senses were witnesses of , both as to the doctrine and actions of christ ; and therefore it is no wayes credible , they should be deceived themselves in what they spoke ; and more improbable they would deceive others , whose interest lay wholly upon the truth of the doctrine which they preoched ▪ for by the very preaching of that doctrine they rob'd themselves of all the comforts of life , and exposed themselves to a thousand miseries in this life ; so that unlesse their doctrine was true in order to another life , they were guilty of the greatest folly this world ever heard of . we see what care our saviour took to satisfie the reasons of men concerning the credibility of his doctrine , when the persons he employed in the founding a church upon it , were only such as were intimately conversant with the whole life , doctrine , and works of him from whom they received it ; and thereby we cannot suppose any ignorance in them concerning the things they spoke ▪ and lest men should mistrust they might have a design to impose on others , he made their faithfulness appear , by their exposing themselves to any hazards to make good the truth of what they preached . especially , having such a divine power accompanying them in the miracles wrought by them , which were enough to perswade any rational men that they came upon a true embassie , who carryed such credentials along with them . another end of our saviours training up his apostles so long in his school before he sent them abroad , was , that they might be auditors of his doctrine , and so might learn themselves before they taught others . christ was no friend to those hasty births which run abroad with the shell on their heads ; no , although it was in his power to conferr the gifts of the holy ghost , as well at their first entrance into discipleship as afterwards , yet we see he nu●tures and trains them up gradually , teaching them as quintilian would have masters do , guttatim , acquainting them now with one , then with another of the mysteries of the gospel . christ doth not overwhelm them with floods and torrents of discourses , but gently drops now one thing into them , then another , by which way such narrow-mouthed vessels would be the soonest filled . yea our saviour useth such ●n 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the greek fathers call it , such a prudent temper in instructing them , that it is matter of just admiration to consider under how great and stupendious ignorance of the main points of redemption ( christs death and resurrection , and the nature of christs kingdom ) they discovered , after they had been some years under christs tutorage . and we see what industry and diligence was used in the training up of those for the apostleship , who were in an immediate way sent out by christ. and it is very probable that upon their first sending abroad they taught not by immediate revelation , but only what they had learned from christ during their being with him . whence we see what a subordination there is in acquired parts , labour , and industry to the teachings and inspirations of the divine spirit ; our saviour looked not on his labour as lost , although afterwards the unction from the holy one should teach them all things . it was christs design to have them go 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from strength to strength , à domo sanctuarii in domum doctrinae , as the chaldee paraphrast renders that place , from one school of learning to another . as under the law even those that waited for the r●ach hakkodesh , the inspiration of the divine spirit , were brought up in the schools of the prophets under instruction there ; which was the place where they lay expecting the gentle gale of the holy spirit to carry them forth ; which was the ground of amos his complaint . that he was neither a prophet , nor the son of a prophet ; by which it seems evident , that gods ordinary course was to take some of the sons of the prophets out of the colledges where they lived , and employ them in the prophetical office. but of this largely elsewhere . such a school of the prophets did our saviour now erect , wherein he entred his disciples as schollars , and educated them in order to the office he intended them for . the next thing we take notice of , is , the name and nature of that office which christ call'd them to . they who derive the use of the name of apostles as applyed by christ to his disciples , either from the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 at athens , by which name the masters of some ships were called as the ships 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or from hesychius his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which he interprets 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or from the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the sense of the civil law , which signifie the dim●ssory letters granted for appeals ; or from the jewish 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as thereby were understood those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as epiphanius calls them , who were as assessours and counsellours to the patriarch of the jewes at tiberias ; or those officers who were sent up and down by the patriarch to gather up tenths , first fruits , and such other things ; who are called thence apostoli in the codex . theod. tit . de iudaeis ; all these i say do equally lose their labour ▪ and run far to fetch that which might be found much nearer home : our saviour taking the word from common use , but applying it in a special manner to a peculiar sense , which is the custome of the scriptures : the original of the word properly imports such as are imployed by commission from another for the dispatch of some businesse in his name . so casaubon ( who was sufficiently able to judg of the use of a greek word ) in communi graecorum usu 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dicebantur certi homines , qui negotii gerendi gratiâ , magis quam deferendi nuntii aliquò mittebantur . and so it is taken , iohn . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he that is sent is not greater then he that sent him . thence epaphroditus when imployed upon a special message to paul in the name of the churches , is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , philippians , . . which we translate your messenger . and so titus and the two other sent to the church of corinth to gather their charity ▪ are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the messengers of the churches . thence paul fully renders the import and sense of the word apostle by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , corinth . . . we act as ambassaduors for christ. to which purpose it is observable that the septuagint ( whose greek is most followed by the new testament ) doe render the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when it signifies to imploy a messenger upon special service , by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as king. . . — king. . . exod . . and the very word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used in this sense , king. . . where ahijah saith , i am 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a sad messenger to thee ; for , thus saith the lord , &c. whereby the full sense and importance of the word apostle appears to be , one that is imployed by a peculiar commission from him that hath authority over him for the doing some special service . thus were christs disciples called apostles from the immediate commission which they had from christ for the discharge of that work which he imployed them in . thence our saviour makes use of the word sending in the proper and peculiar sense when he gives the apostles their commission , in those remarkable words of christ to them ; as the father hath sent me , even so send i you . john . . whereby our saviour delegates his power and authority which he had as doctour of the church , to his apostles upon his leaving the world , not in a privative way , so as to destroy his own authority over the church , but in a cumulative way , investing them with that authority which they had not before , for both teaching and governing the church . no argument then can be drawn for the right or form of church-government from christs actions towards his disciples before the last and full commission was given unto them ; because they had no power of church-government before that time . which will be further cleared if we consider their first sending out , spoken of matth. . . mark . . luke . . several things lie in our way to be observed in reference to this mission of the apostles . first , that though the apostles had been now for some competent time , not onely called to their office , but solemnly chosen to it ; yet we no where read that they did ever exercise that office till now they were sent forh by christ. they remained still at christs feet , learning for their own instruction , and fitting themselves for their future imployment , and thought it no inconvenience while they lay for a wind , to lay in sufficient lading and provision for their voyage . baptize indeed they did before , ioh. . . but that i suppose was done by them by an immediate present order from christ himself , being by as the chief in the action , thence christ in one place is said to baptize , ioh. . . and yet he is said not to baptize , but his disciples , ioh. . . christ did it authoritatively , the disciples ministerially . yet if we should grant the disciples did then baptize as private men after the received custome of the jews , ( among whom onely a confessus trium was requisite to baptize a proselyte ) this doth not at all take off from the peculiarity of a function both to preach and baptize , because as yet the gospel-ministry was not instituted ; and therefore what might be lawfull before restraint , doth not follow it should be so after ▪ when all those scattered rayes and beam , which were dispersed abroad before , were gathered into the ministerial office upon christs appointing it , as that great hemisphere of light in the creation , was after swallowed up in the body of the sun. but now were the apostles first sent out to preach , and now god first begins to null the jewish ministry , and set up another instead of it , and makes good that threatning : that he was against the shepherds , and would require the flock at their hand , and cause them to cease to feed the flock , &c. here then we have the first exercise of the apostles ministry , for which we see , besides their former call and choice , particular mission was after necessary . secondly , we observe that the imployment christ sent them upon now , was onely a temporary imployment , confined as to work and place , and not the full apostolicall work . the want of considering and understanding this , hath been the ground of very many mistakes among men , when they argue from the occasional precepts here given the apostles , as from a standing perpetual rule for a gospel-ministry : whereas our saviour onely suited these instructions to the present case , and the nature and condition of the apostles present imployment , which was , not to preach the gospel up and down themselves , but to be as so many iohn baptists to call people to the hearing of christ himself ; and therefore the doctrine they were to preach was the same with his , the kingdome of heaven is at hand , whereby it appears their doctrine was only preparatory to christ ; it being onely to raise up higher expectations of the gospel-state under the messias ; and these were they whom the king now sent into the high-wayes to invite men to the marriage feast , and to bid them to come in to him . this was the only present imployment of the apostles in their first mission : in which they were confined to the cities of iudea , that they might have the first refusal of the gospel-offers . this mission then being occasional , limited , and temporary , can yield no foundation for any thing perpetual to be built upon it . thirdly , we observe that those whom christ imploied in the first dispersing of the gospel abroad , were furnished with arguments sufficient to evince not onely the credibility , but the certain truth of what they preached . therefore christ when he now sent them out , gave them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not only a meer power to work miracles , but a right conferrèd on them to do it as the apostles of christ. these were the credentials which the apostles carried along with them to shew from whom they derived their power , and by whose authority they acted . and these were the most suitable to them , as making it appear that a divine presence went along with them , and therefore they could not salsifie to the world in what they declared unto them ; which was the best way for them to evidence the truth of their doctrine , because it was not to be discovered by the evidence of the things themselves , but it depended upon the testimony of the authour ; and therefore the onely way to confirm the truth of the doctrine , was to confirm the credibility of the authour , which was best done by doing something above what the power of nature could reach unto . and this was the prerogative of the apostles in their first mission above iohn the baptist : for of him it is said that he did no miracle . fourthly , we observe that the apostles in this mission were invested in no power over the church , nor in any superiority of order one over another . the first is evident , because christ did not now send them abroad to gather churches , but onely to call persons to the doctrine of the messias ; and while christ was in the world among them , he retained all church power and authority in his own hand . when this temporary mission expired , the apostles lived as private persons still under christs tutorage , and we never read them acting in the least as church-officers all that while . which may appear from this one argument , because all the time of our saviours being in the world , he never made a total separation from the iewish church , but frequented with his disciples the temple worship and service to the last ; although he super-added many gospel observations to those of the law. and therefore when no churches were gathered , the apostles could have no church power over them . all that can be pleaded then in order to church-government from the consideration of the form of government as setled by our saviour , must be either from a supposed inequality among the apostles themselves , or their superiority over the lxx . disciples ; or from some rules laid down by christ in order to the government of his church : of which two are the most insisted on , matthew . . matth. . . of these in their order . the first argument drawn for an established form of government in the church , from the state of the apostles under christ , is , from a supposed inequality among the apostles , and the superiority of one as monarch of the church ; which is the papists plea from saint peter , as the chief and head of the apostles . whose loud exclamations for saint peters authority a●● much of the same nature with those of demetrius the silver-smith at ephesus , with his fellow craftsmen , who cried up , great is diana of the ephesians , not from the honor they bore to her as diana , but from the gain which came to them from her worship at ephesus . but i dispute not now the entail of saint peters power , what ever it was to the roman bishop : but i onely inquire into the pleas drawn for his authority from the scriptures , which are written in so small a character , that without the spectacles of an implicite faith , they will scarce appear legible to the eyes of men . for what though christ changed saint peters name ? must it therefore follow that christ baptized him monarch of his church ? were not iohn and iames called by christ boanerges ? and yet who thinks that those sons of thunder must therefore overturn all other power but their own ? christ gave them new names , to shew his own authority over them , and not their authority over others ; to be as monitors of their duty , and not as instruments to convey power . so chrysostome speaks of the very name peter , given to simon ; it was to shew him his duty of being fixed and stable in the faith of christ , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , this name might be ( as a string upon his finger ) a continual remembrancer of his duty . and likewise , i conceive , as an incouragement to him after his fall , that he should recover his former stability again ; else it should seem strange that he alone of the apostles should have his name from firmness and stability , who fell the soonest , and the foulest of any of the apostles ; unlesse it were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which would be worse divinity , then rhetorick . the change then of st peters name imports no such universall power , neither from the change , nor from the name . but why then hath saint peter the honour to be named first of all the apostles ? first , it seems to be implyed as an honour given to peter above the rest . but doth all honour carry an universal power along with it ? there may be order certainly among equals ; and there may be first , second , and third , &c. where there is no imparity and jurisdiction in the first over all the rest . primacy of order as among equals , i know none will deny saint peter : a primacy of power as over inferiours , i know none will grant , but such as have subdued their reason to their passion and interest . nay , a further order then of m●er place may without danger be attributed to him : a primacy in order of time , as being of the first called , and it may be the first who adhered to christ , in order of age ; of which ierome , aetati delatum quia petrus senior erat , speaking of peter and iohn ; nay yet higher , some order of dignity too ; in regard of his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which the greek fathers speak so much of ; the servency and heat of his spirit , whence by eusebius he is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the prolocutor among the apostles , who was therefore most forward to inquire , most ready to answer , which chrysostome elegantly calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 alluding to the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which are frequently given to peter by the fathers , which import no more then praesultor in choreâ , he that that led the dance among the disciples : but his being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 implies no superiority of power . for dyonys . haliarnass . calls appius cla●dius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whereas all know that the decemviri had an equality of power among themselves . neither doth his being as the mouth of the disciples imply his power ; for aaron was a mouth to moses , but moses was aarons master . neither yet doth this primacy of order alwayes hold in reference to peter : for although generally he is named first of the aposties , as matthew , . . mark . . acts . . mark . . luk . . acts . . — . yet in other places of scripture we finde other apostles set in order before him as iames , galat. . . paul and apollos , and others , cor. . . cor. . . — . . no argument then can be drawn hence , if it would hold but onely a primacy of order ; and yet even that fails too in the scriptures changing of the order so often . but , say they , whatever becomes of this order , we have a strong foundation for saint peters power , because christ said , he would build his church upon him , matth. . . this were something indeed , if it were proved ; but i fear this rock will not hold water , as it is brought by them ; nor saint peter prove to be that rock . for indeed , was the church built upon saint peter ? then he must be the chief foundation stone , and peter must build upon himself , and not upon christ , and all the apostles upon him ; and thus in exalting the servant , we depress the master ; and in setting a new foundation , we take away the only foundation , iesus christ. if by being built upon peter , they mean no more then being built by him as the chief instrument ; it is both a very incongruous speech , and implies nothing more then what was common to him , and the rest of the apostles , who were all master-builders in the church of christ , as paul calls himself ; and in that respect are set forth as the twelve foundation stones , in the walls of the new ierusalem . the rock then spoken of by christ , in his speech to peter , if taken doctrinally , was saint peters confession , as many of the fathers interpret it ; if taken personally , it was none other but christ himself , who used a like speech to this , when he said , destroy this temple , and in three dayes i will raise it up . which words , though spoken by occasion of the material temple ( as those were of peters name ) yet christ understood them of the temple of his body , ( as here likewise he doth of his person . ) but still they urge , christ put the keyes into saint peters hands , matthew , . . now the power of the keyes doth denote regal authority . i answer , first , the keyes may be given two wayes , either from a prince to a subject , or from a city to a prince . in this latter acception , they denote principality in the receiver , but withall inferiority and subjection in the given : and in this sense , i am so charitable , as to think they will not say that christ gave the keyes to peter ; it must be then as a prince to a subject ; and when they are so given , it doth not imply an universal power in the persons to whom they are given , but an investing them in that particular place he hath appointed them to ; the office which the power of the keyes implies , is ministerial , and not authoritative ; delarative , and not iuridical ; over persons committed to their charge , and not over officers joyned in●equality of power with them . for so were the rest of the apostles with peter in the same power of the keyes , matth. . . iohn . . this-power of the keyes then was given to peter in a peculiar manner , but nothing peculiar to him given thereby . but still there remains another ward in saint peters keyes , and the last foot to the popes chair which is pasce oves , feed my sheep ; a charge given particularly to peter , iohn . . thence they infer his power over the whole church . but this foot hath neither joynts nor sinews in it , and is as infirm as any of the rest : sor neither did this command rather then commission belong onely to peter ; for christ had before given them all their general commission : as the father hath sent me , even so send i you , john . whereby is implied an investing all the apostles equally , with the power and authority of governing the church of god ; although this charge be peculiarly renewed to peter , because as he had particularly faln , so he should be particularly restored ; neither yet did we grant this : doth the word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 imply such a power and authority as they plead for , viz. a supream power over the church of god : for this even by peter himself is attributed to the fixed presbyters of the churches , who by this argument have as much authority conveyed them , as saint peter had , pet. . . and yet should we grant this , it would not infer what they desire ; for these sheep were not the whole church of christ , taken absolutely , but indefinitely . for all the apostles had a command to preach to every creature , matth. . . which was as to the words larger , as to the sense the same with that to saint peter here . and afterwards we find peter called the apostle of circumcision , and the apostles sending him to samaria , and paul in the right hand of fellowship with peter ; which had been certainly dishonourable to peter , had he been invested with such an universal supream power over the apostles and the whole church . such pretences then as these are for such an extravagant power in the church of god , from such miserably weak foundations , for the upholding a corrupt interest , have given the occasion to that tart sarcasm , in papatu sub petri nudo nomine satan non amplius larva . but that which would seem sufficient to awaken any out of this dream of saint peters power over the rest of the apostles , is , the frequent contendings of the twelve apostles , one among another , who should be the greatest ; and that even after that christ had said , upon this rock will i build my church , as we may see matthew . if christ had conferred such a power on saint peter , what little ground had there been for the request of iames and iohn ? and would not our saviour rather have told them , the chiefest place was conserred on peter already , then have curbed their ambition in seeking who should be greatest ; and would have bid them be subject to peter as their head and ruler . we see not then the least foundation for an universal monarchy in the church of god ; and so this form of government is not determined by any actions or commands of christ. we come now to consider the pleas of others , who joyn in renouncing any supream power under christ , over the church of god ; but differ as to the particular forms of government in the church ; those who are for an inequality , usually fix on the imparity between the apostles and the lxx . those that are for a parity upon matth. . . and matth. . . i shall here proceed in the former method , to shew that none of those can prove the form they contend for as only necessary , nor their adversaries prove it unlawful . first then for the inequality between the apostles and the lxx . disciples ; by that inequality is meant , either only an inequality of order ; or else , an inequality carrying superiority and subordination . it is evident that the lxx . disciples were not of the same order with the twelve apostles , whom christ had designed for the chief government of his church , after his ascension ; and in this respect the comparison of the twelve heads of the tribes , and the seventy elders , seems parallel with the twelve apostles ; and the lxx . disciples ; but if by imparity , be meant , that the twelve apostles had a superiority of power and jurisdiction over the lxx . disciples ; there is not the least evidence or foundation , in reason or scripture for it . for the lxx . did not derive their power from the apostles , but immediately from christ ; they enjoyed the same priviledges , were sent upon the same message , ( making way for christs entertainment in the several cities they went to ) yea , all things were parallel between them and the apostles in their mission ( unlesse any difference be made in the cities they went to , and their number ) . so that there is no superiority of office in the apostles , above the lxx . nor of power and jurisdiction over them ; their commissions being the same : and it seems most probable that both their missions were only temporary , and after this the lxx . remained in the nature of private disciples , till they were sent abroad by a new commission after the resurrection , for preaching the gospel , and planting churches . for we see that the apostles themselves were only probationers , till christ solemnly authorized them for their apostolical employment , matth. . . iohn . . when their full commissions were granted to them , and then indeed they acted with a plenitude of power , as governours of the church , but not before . nothing can be inferred then for any necessary standing rule for church-government , from any comparison between the apostles and the lxx . during the life of christ , because both their missiors were temporary and occasional . only we see , that because christ did keep up the number of the twelve so strictly , that as the lxx . were a distinct number from them , so when one was dead , another was to be chosen in his stead ( which had been needlesse , if they had not been a distinct order and colledge by themselves ) , it is thence evident that the apostolical power , was a superiour power to any in the church ; and that such an inequality in church-officers as was between them and particular pastors of churches , is not contrary to what our saviour saith , when he forbids that dominion and authority in his disciples , which was exercised by the kings of the earth , matthew . . luke . . which places , because they are brought by some , to take away all inequality among church-officers , i shall so far examine the meaning of them , as they are conceived to have any influence thereupon . first then , i say , that it is not only the abuse of civil power , which our saviour forbids his disciples , but the exercise of any such power as that is . and therefore the papists are mistaken , when from the words of luke , vos autem non sic , they conclude , all power is not forbidden , but only such a tyrannical power , as is there spoken of . for those words are not a limitation and modification of the power spoken of , but a total prohibition of it ; for first , the comparison is not between the apostles and tyrants , but between them and princes , yea such as luke c●lls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . indeed , had christ said , the kings of the earth abuse their authority ; vos autem non sic ; then it would have been onely a limitation of the exercise of power ; but the meer exercise of civil authority being spoken of before , and then it being subjoyned , but you not so ; it plainly implyes a forbidding of the power spoken of , in the persons spoken to . but , say they , the words used in matthew , are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which import the abuse of their power , which is forbidden . but i answer , first , in luke it is otherwise ; for there it is the simple 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when it follows , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so that if the abuse be forbidden in one , the use is in the other : but secondly , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by the lxx . is used frequently for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is often rendred by that word ; as psalm . . he shall have dominion , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , psalm . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , rule thou in the midst of thine enemies ; in both which places , it is spoken of christs kingdom . so in genesis . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . replenish the earth , and have dominion over it . in all which places , it is used simply for dominion , and not for tyrannical power . it is not then the abuse of civil power , but the use of it , which is here forbidden : which will be more evident secondly , from the importance of the phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; which answers to the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and simply denyes what went before ; as when cain expresseth his fear of being kill'd , genesis . . the septuagint render gods answer by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whereby is not denyed , only the manner of his death to be as abels was , but it is simply denyed ; and so psalm . . the lxx . render 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the wicked are not so . so , when christ saith , matthew . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , from the beginning it was not so ; it imports an absolute denyal of giving bills of divorce from the beginning . thirdly ; this no wayes answers to the scope of the apostles contention , which was meerly about primacy and power , and not at all about the abuse of this power . so that by this place , all affectation and use of a civil , co ▪ active , external power is forbidden to the officers of the church ; the power of the church being only a directive , voluntary power ; and is rather a ministry then a power , as our saviour expresseth there , matthew . . luke . . but having thus excluded all civil power from the governours of the church , as such : i say , secondly , that this place doth no wayes imply a prohibition of all inequality among the governours of the church ; which is abundantly cleared by this reason , because by the acknowledgement of all parties , the apostles had a superiour power over the ordinary pastors of churches ; now if the exercise of all superiority had been forbidden , this must have been forbidden too ; as implying plainly an exercise of authority in some over others in the church . and therefore musculus thus explains the place : non exigit hoc christus ut omnes in regno suo sint aequales , sed nè quispiam cupiat magnus & primus haberi & videri . it is not an inequality of order , but ambition which christ forbids ; and therefore he observes that christ saith not . let none be great among you , and none first ; which should have been , if all primacy and superiority had been forbidden , and a necessity of an equality among church-officers : but he that will be great among you , let him be your minister . let those that are above others , look upon themselves as the servants of others , and not as their masters . for god never bestows any power on any , for the sake of those that have it , but for the sake of those for whom they are employed : when men seek then their own greatnesse , and not the service of the church , they flatly contradict this precept of christ , but with you it shall not be so . but however an inequality of power and order for the churches good is not thereby prohibited : which is sufficient for my purpose . the next place to be considered , is , that in matthew . , , . if thy brother shall trespass against thee ▪ go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone ; if he shall hear thee , thou hast gained thy brother . but if he will not hear thee , then take with thee one or two more , that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established . and if he shall neglect to hear them , tell it to the church ; but if he neglect to hear the church , let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican . it seems a very strange thing to consider , that this one place hath been pressed by all parties to serve under them , for the maintenance of their own particular form of government : so that ( as the iews fable of the manna ) , it hath had a different taste , according to the diversity of the palats of men . those that are for a congregational church , being the first receptacle of church power , set this place in the front of their arguments ; those who plead for standing presbyteries , lay-elders , subordination of courts , fetch all these out of this place ; those that are for a power of church discipline to be only lodged in a higher order of chur 〈…〉 officers succeeding the apostles , derive the succession of that power from this place ; nay lest quidlibet should not be proved èquolibet , the papists despair not of proving the constant visibility of the church , the subordination of all to the pope , the infallibility of general councils , all out of this place . methinks then it might be argument enough of the incompetency of this place to determine any one particular form , when it is with equal confidence on all sides brought to prove so many ; especially if it be made appear that the general rule laid down in these words , may be observed under a diversity of forms of government . for whether by the church , we mean the community of the faithful in a particular congregation , or the standing officers of such a church , or a consistorial court , or synodical assembly , or higher church-officers , it is still the duty of men in case of offences , to tell the church for redresse of grievances , or vindication of the person himself , that he hath discharged his duty . this place then determines not what this church is , nor what the form of it● government should be , when the sense of it holds good and true under such diversity of forms . but we shall further enquire what influence this place can have upon the modelling the government in the church of god. fo● chamier tells us , the prima politia ecclesiasticae origo is to be found in these words ; it will be then worth our enquiry to see what foundation for church government can be drawn out of these words . in which the variety of expositions ( like a multitude of physitians to a distempered patient ) have left it worse then they found it ; i mean more difficult and obscure . we shall therefore endeavour to lay aside all pre-conceptions by other mens judgements and opinions , and see what innate light there is in the text it self to direct us to the full sense and meaning of it . two things the great difficulty of the place lyes in , what the offences are here spoken of ? what the church is which must b● spoken to ? for the first , i conceive it evident to any unprejudicated mind , that the matter our saviour speaks of , is a matter of private offence and injury , and not a matter of scandal , as such considered in a church-society , which i make appear thus first , from the parallel place to this luke . . 〈…〉 y brother trespasse against thee , rebuke him ; and if he repent , forgive him . this can be nothing else but a matter of private injury , because it is in the power of every private person to forgive it ; which it was not in his power to do , were it a matter of scandal to the whole church ; unlesse we make it among christians ( as it was among the jews ) that every private person might excommunicate another , and to release him afterward . secondly , it manifestly appears from st. peters words next after this paragraph , matth. . . lord , how often shall my brother sin against me , and i forgive him , till seven times ? &c. christ answers him , till seventy times seven , that is , as often as he doth it . and thence christ brings the parable of the king forgiving his servants , v. . thirdly , were it meant of any scandalous sin committed with the privacy of any particular person ( as many understand trespassing against thee , that is , te conscio ) then this inconvenience must necessarily follow , that matters of scandal must be brought to the churches cognizance when there can be no way to decide them ; that is , when one offends , and only one person knows it ; here will be a single affirmation on one side , and denyal on the other side , and so there can be no way to decide it ; the matter here spoken of then is somewhat only relating to the offence or injury of some particular person , and not a matter of scandal to the whole church . the question then as propounded to be spoken to by our saviour , is , what is to be done in case of private offences between man and man ? and not in case of secret sins against god , and scandalous to the church ? now to this our saviour layes down his answer gradually : first , there must be private admonition ; if that succeed not , admonition before witnesses ; if not that , telling the church ; if not that neither , reputing him as a heathen and publican . now in this answer , we must conceive our saviour speaks as to an ordinary case , so in a way easie to be understood by all that heard him : and therefore he must speak in allusion to what was at that time among the jews in such cases , which is freely acknowledged both by calvin and beza upon the place . nam certè tanquam de iudais haec dici apparet , saltem ex eo quod addit , sit tibi sicut ethnicus & publicanus . we must then see what the custom was among the jews in such cases , and how far our saviour doth either approve the custome received , or appoint new . the law was very strict in case of offences , for every man in any wise to rebuke his neighbour , and not to suffer sin upon him , arguendo argues , our old translation renders it , thou shalt plainly rebuke thy neighbour . now this piece of necessary discipline our saviour endeavours to recover among them , which it seems was grown much out of use with them . for rabbi chanina , as mr. selden observes , gave this as one reason of the destruction of ierusalem , because they left off reproving one another : non excisa fuissent hierosolyma , nisi quoniam alter alterum non coarguebat . our saviour therefore inforceth this law upon them in case of offences ; first , to deal plainly with their neighbour in reproving him : but our saviour rests not here , but being himself a pattern of meeknesse and charity , he would not have them to rest in a bare private admonition , but to shew their own readinesse to be reconciled , and willingnesse to do good to the soul of the offending party thereby , he adviseth further to take two or three witnesses with them , hoping thereby to work more upon him : but if still he continues refractory , and is not sensible of his miscarriage , tell it the church . what the church here is , is the great controversie ; some , as beza and his followers , understand an ecclesiastical sanhedrin among the jews ▪ which had the proper cognizance of ecclesiastical causes ; but it will be hard to prove any such sanhedrin in use among them ▪ the priests and levites indeed were very often chosen into the sanhedrin , ( which it may be is the ground of the mistake , but there was no such sanhedrin among them , which did not respect matters criminal and civil : so we must understand what iosephus speaks of the priests among the jews : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the priests were alwayes very studious of the law , and other matters of concernment . these were appointed as the overseers of all things , iudges of controversies , and the punishers of condemned persons . thus we see , he is so far from attributing a distinct ecclesiastical court to them , that he seems to make them the only judges in civil and criminal causes . others ▪ by the church , understand the christian ▪ church ; but herein they are divided ; some understanding by it only the officers of the church : so chrysostome , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . euthemius ecclesiam nunc vocat prasides fidelium ecclesiae . others understand it not in its representative notion , but in its diffusive capacity , as taking in all the members . but our saviour speaking to a present case , must be supposed to lay down a present remedy , which could not be , if he gave only rules for governing his church which was not as yet gathered nor formed , there being then no court ecclesiastical for them to appeal unto . suppose then this case to have fallen out immediately after our saviours speaking it , that one brother should trespasse against another , either then notwithstanding our saviours speech ( which speaks to the present time , go and tell the church ) the offended brother is left without a power of redresse , or he must understand it in some sense of the word church , which was then in use among the jews . and these , who tell us , that unless 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be understood for a church as we understand it , it would be no easie matter for us now to conceive what the holy ghost meant by it , would do well withall to consider how those to whom christ spoke , should apprehend his meaning if he spoke in a sense they never heard of before . and certainly , our best way to understand the meaning of scripture is to consider what , of whom , to whom the scripture speaks ; for although the scripture , as a rule of faith for us , be supposed to be so written , as to be easily understood by us , yet as the parcels of it were spoken upon several occasions , they must be supposed to be so spoken , as to be apprehended by them to whom they were spoken in the common senss of the words , if nothing peculiar be expressed in the speech , whereby to restrain them to another sense . and therefore the church must be understood in the same sense wherein the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or the syriack answering to it , was apprehended among the jewes in our saviours time . which could not be for any new consistory or sanhedrin to be erected under the gospel . thence others conceiving that christ did speak according to the custome of the jewes ▪ by the church ▪ understand nothing else but the sanhedrin , and so make the sense of the words to be this . the case our saviour speaks to is that of private quarrels , wherein our saviour layes down two directions in a way of charity , private admonition , and before witnesses ; but if the party continues refractory , then it may be lawful to convent him before the courts of judicature among them , the triumvirate , the . or the great sanhedrin ▪ for although the romans had taken away the power of the iewes in capital matters , yet they allowed them liberty of judgeing in the case of private quarrels : but if he neglect to hear the sanhedrin , then it may be lawful to implead him before the governour of the province in his court of judicature , by which heathens and publicans were to be judged ; which is meant by let him be to thee , not as a brother jew , but as a heathen and a publican . this exposition is said to be first broached by erastus ; but much improved and enlarged by reverend bishop bilson , who spends a whole chapter upon it . but this exposition though it seems fair and plausible , yet there are several things in it which keep me from imbracing it ; as first , it seems not very probable that our saviour should send his disciples to whom he speaks , to the jewish sanhedrin for the ending any controversies arising among themselves ; knowing how bitter enemies they wer to all who were the followers of christ. secondly , it seems not very agreeable with the scope of our saviours speech ▪ which was to take up differences as much as may be among his disciples , and to make them shew all lenity and forherance towards those that had offended them , and to do good to the souls of those that had injured and provoked them ; whereas this command of telling the sanhedrin , and inpleading offendors before heathen courts , tends apparently to heighten the bitterness and animosities of mens spirits one against another : and layes religion so open to obloquies , which makes paul so severely reprove the christians at corinth , for going to law before heathen magistrates ; therefore to say that christ allows there going to law before heathens , and paul to forbid it , were , instead of finding a way to end the differences among christians , to make one between christ and paul. thirdly , the thing chiefly aimed at by christ , is not a mans vindication of himself , or recovering losses by injuries received , but the recovering and gaining the offending brother ; which evidently appears by what our saviour adds to the using admonition in private , if he shall hear thee , thou hast gained thy brother . now 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the new testament is used for the conversion and turning others from sin . that i might gain them that are under the law , corinth . . , , &c. so pet. . . explained by iames . . our saviour then speaks not to the manner of proceeding as to civil injuries , which call for restitution , but to such as call for reconciliation . and so the case i conceive is that of private differences and quarrels between men , and not law-suites nor civil causes : i mean such differences as respect persons and not things , which our saviour layes down these rules for the ending of . and therefore i cannot but wonder to see some men insist so much on that place against such an exposition of this luke . . where christ saith , who made me a iudge , and a divider among you ? for doth it any wayes follow , because christ would not take upon him to be a temporal judge among the jewes , therefore he should take no course for the ending differences among his disciples , and the taking away all animosities from among them ? nay on the contrary doth not our saviour very often designedly speak to this very purpose , to root out all bitterness , malice , envy , and rancour from mens spirits , and to perswade them to forgive injuries , even to pray for persecutours , and by any means to be reconciled to their brethren . which he makes to be a duty of so great necessity , that if a man had brought his gift to the altar , and remembred his brother had ought against him , he bids him leave his gift there , and go , be reconciled to his brother , and then offer up the gift . we see hereby how suitable it was to our saviours doctrine and design to lay down rules for the ending of any differences arising among his disciples ; and this being now cleared to be the state of the case , it will not be difficult to resolve what is meant by telling the church . which i make not to be any appeal to a juridical court , acting authoritatively over the persons brought before it , but the third and highest step of charity in a man towards a person that hath offended him , viz. that when neither private admonition , nor before two or three witnesses would serve to reclaim the offendor , then to call a select company together ( which is the natural importance of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) and before them all to lay open the cause of the breach and difference between them , and to refer it to their arbitration to compose and end it . which sense of the place , i humbly conceive to have the least force in it , and in every part of it to be most genuine and natural , and fully agreeable to the received practice among the jewes : which the author of the book musar cited by drusius fully acquaints us with , whose words i shall transcribe , as being a plain paraphrase on these of our saviour . qui arguit socium suum , debet primum hoc facere placide inter se , & ipsum solum , verbis mollibus , ita ut non pudefaciat eum . si resipiscit , bene est ; sin , debet eum acritèr arguere & pudefacere inter se & ipsum . si non resipiscit , debet adhibere socios , ipsumque coram illis pudore afficere ; si nec modo quicquam proficit , debet eum pudefacere coram multis , ejusque delictum publicare . nam certe detegendi sunt hypocritae . that which this authour calls pudefacere eum coram multis , is that which our saviour means when he bids him tell the church , or the congregation , as our old translation renders it . this the jews called reproving of men 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 before a multitude , as the vulg. latin though falsly renders that place l●viticus . . publicè argue eum : and to this the apostle may allude when he speaks of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , corinth . . . censure of many ; and the reproof 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 before all , tim. . . which was to be in matters of publike scandal upon religion , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the jewes call them ; but in case the offendor should still 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 slight this overture of reconciliation , before the company selected for hearing the case ▪ then saith our saviour , look upon him as an obstinate refractory creature , and have no more to do with him , then with a heathen and a publican ; by which terms the most wilful obstinate sinners were set out among the jewes , and by which our saviour means a mans withdrawing himself , as much as in him lies , from all familiar society with such a person . and thus saith christ , whatsoever you bind in earth , shall be bound in heaven , and whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven , v. . that is , if after all your endeavours of reconciliation , the offender will hearken to no agreement , it is an evidence and token that mars sin is bound upon him , ( that is , shall not be pardoned so long as he continues impenitent , ) but if he repent of his offence , and you be reconciled , as the offence is removed on earth thereby , so the sin is loosed in heaven , that is , forgiven . the guilt of sin that binds , it being an obligation to punishment ; and so the pardon of sin that looseth , as it cancels that obligation . and so grotius observes , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , what is called retaining in one place , is binding in another : and what is loosing in one place , is remitting in the other . but now although i assert this to be the true , proper , genuine meaning of this difficult place , yet i deny not but that this place hath influence upon church-government ; but i say the influence it hath , is onely by way of accommodation , and by analogy deduced from it . according to which , these things i conceive have foundation in these words ; first , gradual appeals from the method here laid down by our saviour . secondly , church ▪ censures , and the duty of submitting to church-authority ; for although before any church power was actually set up , ( as when our saviour spake these words then there was none , ) yet after that church-government was fixed and set up , it must in reason be supposed that all matters of the nature of scandals to the church must be decided there . thirdly , the lawfulness of the use of excommunication in christian churches ; for if every particular person might withdraw from the society of such a one as continues refractory in his offences , then much more may a whole society , and the officers of it declare such a one to be avoided both in religious and familiar civil society , which is the formal nature of excommunication . herein we see the wisdom of our saviour , who in speaking to a particular case , hath laid down such general rules as are of perpetual use in the church of god for accommodating differences arising therein . thus have we hitherto cleared that our saviour hath determined no more of church-govern-ment then what is appliable to a diversity of particular forms , and so hath not by any law or practice of his own determined the necessity of any one form . chap. vi. the next thing pleaded for determining the form of government , is apostolical practice ; two things inquired into concerning that , what it was ? how far it binds ? the apostles invested with the power and authority of governing the whole church of christ by their commission , io. . . matth. . . what the apostles did in order to the church government before pentecost , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 explained . how the apostles did divide provinces ; whether paul and peter were confined to the circumcision and uncircumcision , and different churches erected by them in the same cities ? what the apostles did in order to settling particular churches ? the names and office of bishops , presbyters , deacons considered . four general considerations laid down about the apostles practice . first , it cannot be fully known what is was . . great probability , they observe no one certain form in setling churches ; proved from epiphanius , ierome , ambrose or hilary . . their case different from ours in regard of the paucity of believers . . if granted for any form , yet proves not the thing in question . for , . offices appointed by them are ceased . widdows , deaconesses abolished . . rites and customs apostolical grown out of use . . such as were founded upon apostolical precepts , acts . . considered . . such as were grounded on their practice , holy kiss , love-feasts , dipping in baptism , community of goods , with several others . having found nothing , either in our saviours practice , or in the rules laid down by him ( conceived to respect church-government ) which determines any necessity of one particular form ; the onely argument remaining which can be conceived of sufficient strength to found the necessity of any one form of government , is , the practice of the apostles , who were by their imployment and commission entrusted with the government of the church of god. for our saviour after his resurrection taking care for the planting and governing of his church after his ascension to glory , doth at two several times call his apostles together , and gives now their full charter and commission to them ; the first ▪ containing chiefly the power it self conferred upon them , iohn . . the other , the extent of that power , matth. . . in the former our saviour tells them , as the father had sent him , so did he send them ▪ which we must not understand of a parity and equality of power , but in a similitude of the mission : that as christ before had managed the great affairs of his church in his own person ; so now ( having according to the prophecies made of him at the end of seventy weeks , made reconciliation for iniquity by his death , and brought in everlasting righteousness by his resurrection ) he dispatcheth abroad his gospel heralds to proclaim the iubilee now begun , and the act of indempnity now past upon all penitent offendors ; which is the sense of the other part of their commission ; whosoever sins ye remit , they are remitted ; and whosoever sins ye retain , they are retained , john . . i. e. as many as upon the preaching the gospel by you , shall come in and yield up themselves to the tenders of grace proclaimed therein , shall have their former rebellions pardoned ; but such as will still continue obstinate , their former guilt shall still continue to bind them over to deserved punishment . and to the end the apostles might have some evidence of the power thus conferred upon them , he breathes the holy ghost on them , and said , receive ye the holy ghost ; which we are not to understand of the extraordinary gifts of the holy ghost , which were not received till the day of pentecost , act. . . but of the authoritative power of preaching the gospel , which was now conferred upon them , by the solemn rite of breathing the holy ghost on the apostles . in which sense the church of england understands that expression in the ordination of ministers , as it implies onely the conferring thereby an authority for the preaching of the gospel , which being conveyed by ordination , is fitly expressed by the same word● which our saviour used in the conferring the same power upon his apostles at his sending them forth to be gospel-preachers . after this comes the solemn appointed meeting of christ with his disciples at the mountain of galilee , ( where in probability , besides the eleven , were present the five hundered brethren at once . ) and here christ more solemnly inaugurates the apostles in their office , declaring all power to be in his hands ; and therefore appoints the apostles to preach the gospel to every creature , that is , to all men indefinitely , gentiles as well as jewes , which matthew fully expresseth by all nations . now are the apostles left as chief governours of the church under christ ; and in this last commission wherein the extent of the apostles power is more fully expressed , there is nothing mentioned of any order for the government of the church under them , not what course should be taken by the church after their decease . all that remains then to be inquired into , is what the apostles practice was , and how far they acted for the determining any one form of government as necessary for the church . the apostles being thus invested in their authority , we proceed to consider the exercise of this authority for the governing of the church . and here we are to consider , that the apostles did not presently upon their last commission from christ goe forth abroad in the world to preach , but were commanded by christ to go first to ierusalem , and there to expect the coming of the holy ghost according to our saviours own appointment , luke . . and therefore what mark adds , mark . . that after christs appearance to them , the apostles ▪ went abroad and preached every where , working miracles , must either be understood of what they did onely in their way returning from galile oo ierusalem : or else more probably of what they did indefinitely afterwarps . for presently after we find them met together at ierusalem , whence they came from mount olivet where christs ascension was . here we find them imployed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith saint luke in his gospel , which we render the temple ; but i understand it rather as referring to the action than the place , and is best explained by what luke saith in acts . . they were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , continuing in prayer and supplication . and that it cannot be meant of the temple , appears by the mention of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an upper room , where they continued together . for that it should be meant of any of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , about the temple , is most improbable to conceive , because not only those ninty cells about the temple were destined and appointed for the priests in their several 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or times of ministration ; and it is most unlikely the chief priests and masters of the temple should suffer those whom they hated so much , to continue ●o near them without any molestation or disturbance . while the apostles continue here , they proceed to the choice of a new apostle instead of iudas , thereby making it appear now necessary that number was to the first forming of churches , when the vacant place must be supplyed with so great solemnity . which office of apostleship ( which iudas once had , and matthias was now chosen into ) is call'd by peter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , acts . . which a learned interpreter ●enders , the portion of his apostolacy , or the province which fell to iudas his lot in the distribution of them among the apostles , which saith he , is call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , into which matthias did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 go , and from which judas fell by his sin . this exposition is very often suggested by that learned author : but ( with all due reverence to his name and memory ) ; i cannot see any such evidence either from scripture or reason , to enforce any such exposition of either phrase , yielding us sufficient ground to for sake the received sense of both of them . for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is plainly nothing else but that office of the apostleship which belonged to iudas , without any relation to a province ; and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is that proper place which belonged to iudas , as he is call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the son of perdition , and no other . but the very foundation of this mistake ▪ is , that the several provinces , into which the apostles were to go for preaching the gospel , were distributed among them before they were filled with the holy ghost , which is an hypothesis will not easily be granted by any one that doth but impartially consider these things . that if the provinces were so distributed among them , it must be either before the death of christ , or after ; and it must be before , if iudas had a peculiar province assigned to him , which this exposition necessarily implyes ; but how provinces could be divided among them before they had their commission given them to preach to all nations , is somewhat hard to understand . it must be then immediately after christ had bid them preach to every creature , that they thus distributed the provinces among them ; but several things make this very improbable . first , the grosse mistake of the apostles concerning the very nature of christs kingdom ▪ which we read , acts . ▪ when they jointly ask christ , lord , wilt thou at this time restore the kingdom to israel ? they dream● still of a temporal kingdom , according to the common opinion of the jews ; and , is it probable they should distribute among themselves the several provinces for preaching the gospel , who thought that christs kingdom would have been established by other means then going up and down the world ? they looked that christ himself should do it by his own power , wilt thou at this time , &c. and did not think it must be done by their means ; much lesse by their single going into such vast parts of the world , as the twelve divisions of the world would be . secondly , it appears very improbable any such division of provinces should be made then , when they were commanded to stay at ierùsalem , and not to stir thence till the promise of the spirit was fulfilled upon them . tarry ye in the city of jerusalem till ye be endued with power from on high , luke . . and being assembled together with them , be commanded them not to depart from jerusalem , but wait for the promise of the father , acts . . is it likely , when the apostles were thus straightly charged not to leave ierusalem , till they were endued with the power of the holy ghost , they should contrive the dispersing themselves abroad all over the world ? especially when christ told them , that it should be after the coming of the spirit that they should go abroad , acts . . and that the spirit should fit them for their work , ( iohn . , . iohn . . ) by teaching them , and testifying of christ. thirdly , if such a distribution of provinces had been made so early among the apostles , how comes it to passe , that after they were endued with the holy ghost , they did not every one betake himself to his several province ? there could have been then no plea nor excuse made for their stay any longer at ierusalem after the promise of the spirit was fulfilled upon them . and yet after the persecution raised at ierusalem , when most of the church were dispersed abroad , we find the apostles remaining still at ierusalem , acts . , . would they have been so long absent from their charge , if any such distribution had been made among themselves ? fourthly , the apostles occasional going to places as they did , argues there was no such set division of provinces among them . the first departure of any of the apostles from ierusalem , was that of peter and iohn , who were sent by common order of the apostles to samaria , after they heard that by philips preaching , they had received the word of god. not the least mention of any peculiar province of theirs which they were sent to . so peters going from ioppa to casarea , was occasioned by cornelius his sending for him . fifthly , that provinces were not divided , appears , because of so frequent reading of many of the apostles being together in one place : first the whole twelve at ierusalem , after that peter and iohn together at samaria ; about four years after pauls conversion , we met with iames and peter together at ierusalem ; fourteen years after this , we find iames , peter ▪ and iohn there . is it any wayes probable , if all these had their distinct provinces assigned then , they should be so often found together at ierusalem , which certainly must belong but to the province of one of them ? sixthly , it seems evident that they divided not the world into provinces among them , because it was so long before they thought it to be their duty to preach unto the gentiles ; peter must have a vision first before he will go to cornelius , and as yet we see they retained that perswasion , that it is unlawful for a iew to keep company , or come unto one that is of another nation , acts . . nay more then this , peter is accused for this very action ▪ before the apostles at ierusalem , acts . , . and they laid this a● the ground of their quarrel , that he went in to men uncircumcised , and did eat with them : how this is reconcilable with the whole worlds being divided into provinces so early among the apostles , is not easie to conceive : unlesse some of them thought it unlawful to go to their own provinces , which certainly must be of the gentiles , most of them . seventhly , another evidence that provinces were not divided so soon , is , that peters province so much spoken of , viz. that of the circumcision , fell not to his share , till near twenty years after this time we now speak of , upon the agreement between paul and peter at ierusalem . if province had been so soon divided , how comes the apostleship of the circumcision to be now at last attributed to peter ? was it not known what peters province was before this time ? and if it was ▪ how come paul and he now to agree about dividing their provinces ? nay further : eighthly , these provinces after all this time were not so divided , as to exclude one from anothers province , which is requisite for a distribution of them , much lesse were they so at first ; for as to this division of the jews and gentiles between paul and peter , it cannot be understood exclusively of others ; for , what work then had the rest of the apostles to do ? neither taking them distributively , was paul excluded from preaching to ●he iews , or peter to the gentiles ? we see paul was at first chosen to be a vessel to bear christs name before the gentiles and kings , and the children of israel . we see hereby he was appointed an apostle as well to jews as gentiles : and accordingly we find him presently preaching christ in the synagogues , and confounding the iews . so in all places where paul came , he first preached to the jew● in the synayogues , and when they would not hearken to him , then he turned to the gentiles . neither was this done only before the apostles meeting at ierusalem , supposed to be that spoken of acts ▪ but after at ephesus , we find him entring into the synagogues there , and preaching to the jews . so likewise he did at corinth , acts . . and he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath , and perswaded the iews and the greeks . paul then we see thought not himself excluded from preaching to the jews , because they were st. peters province . neither did peter think himself excluded from the gentiles , he was the first that opened the door of faith to them by preaching to them ; in which respect it is not altogether improbably conceived by some , that the power of the keys was peculiarly given to him . and afterwards in the open council at ierusalem , he owns himself as the apostle to the gentiles : god made choyce among us , that the gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel and believe . this then evidently destroys any such early distinction of provinces ; when peter , whose province seems most expresse in scripture , viz. the circumcision , yet we find him acting as an apostle to the gentiles too . i deny not but at the meeting of paul and peter at ierusalem , when they observed how god did blesse the one most in the circumcision , the other in the uncircumcision , there was an agreement between them , for the one to lay out his pains chiefly upon the iews , and the other upon the gentiles ; and in probability where they met in any city , the one gathered a church of the iews , and the other of the gentiles ; but this makes no such distinction of provinces , as to exclude the one from the others charge : and further , this agreement between paul and peter then after both had preached so many years , makes it fully clear , that the pretended division of provinces so early among the apostles , is only the wind-egge of a working fancy , that wants a shell of reason to cover it . as for the division of provinces mentioned in ecclesiastical writers , though as to some few they generally agree ; as that thomas went to parthia , andrew to scythia , iohn to the lesser asia , &c. yet as to the most they are at a losse where to find their province● , and contradict one another in reference to them ; and many of them seem to have their first original from the fable of dorotheus , nicephorus , and such writers . having shewed that the apostles observed no set-order for distributing provinces , we come to shew what course they took for the setling of churches in the places they went to . in the clearing of which , nothing is more necessary then to free our judgements of those prejudices and prepossessions , which the practice either of the former ages of the church , or our own have caused within us . for it is easie to observe , that nothing hath been a more fruitful mother of mistakes and errours , then the looking-upon the practice of the primitive church through the glass of our own customs . especially when under the same name , ( as it is very often seen ) something far different from what was primarily intended by the use of the word , is set forth to us . it were no difficult task to multiply examples in this kind , wherein men meeting with the same names , do apprehend the same things by them , which they now through custome signifie , without taking notice of any alteration in the things themselves signified by those names . thus since the name missa was appropriated by the papists to that which they call the sacrifice of the altar , wherever they meet among ancient writers with that name , they presently conceive the same thing was understood by it then . whereas it was then only taken for the publike service of the church , so called from the dismission of the people after it , with an ite , missa est ; and from the different forms of christians , they had two several services , the one called missa catechumenorum , because at the end of that the catechumeni were dismissed out of the assembly ; the other missa fidelium , at which they received the lords supper ; which afterwards ( the former discipline of the church decaying ) ingrossed the name missa to its self ; and when the sacrifice of the altar came up among the papists , it was appropriated to that . for though they innovated things never so much , yet it hath been alwayes the policy of that church not to innovate names , that so the incautelous might be better deceived with a pretence of antiquity ; and thus under the anciently simple name of missa , lyes at this day couched a masse of errours . so after the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was applyed by them to that sacrifice , wherever they meet that word in scripture , they interpret it in that sense ; and hence when we only read of the teachers at antioch , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , no other rendring of the words will be taken but sacrificantibus illis , although it be not only contrary to the sense of the word in the new testament , but to the exposition of chrysostome , theophylact , and oecumenius , who expound it by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . thus when publike liturgies were grown into use in the church after the decay of the gifts of the first primitive church , eusebius his bare calling s. iames 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( though he relates only to his ministry in the church of jerusalem ) is enough to entitle him father to a liturgy , which soon crept forth under his name : by an argument much of the same strength with that which some have brought for reading homilies , because it is said of st. paul , acts . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . of the same stamp is bellarmin●s argument for invocation of saints , because of iacobs saying , invocetur super eos nomen meum . but we need not go far for examples of this kind . the businesse we are upon , will acquaint ●s with some of them . as the argument for popular election of pastors , from the grammatical sense of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for l●y-elders from the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and modern episcopacy from the use of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in scriptures . names and things must then be accurately distinguished , and the sense of the names must neither be fetched from the custome now used , nor from the etymologie of the word , but from the undoubted practice of apostolical times , if that can be made appear what it was . which will be best done , if we can once find out what course and order the apostles took in the forming and modelling the churches by them planted . that which we lay then as a foundation , whereby to clear what apostolical practice was , is , that the apostles in the forming churches did observe the customes of the jewish synagogues . totum regimen ecclesiarum christi conformatum fuit ad synagogarum exemplar , saith grotius truly . praesides & curatores ecclesiarum ad instar presbyterorum synagogae iudaicae constitutos fuisse constat , as salmasius often affirms . in which sense we understand that famous speech of the author of the commentary on st. pauls epistles , which goes under the name of ambrose , but now judged by most to be done by hilary a deacon of the church of rome , under which name st. augustine quotes some words on the fifth to the romanes , which are found still in those commentaries . nam apud omnes utique gentes honorabilis est senectus , unde & synagoga & postea ecclesia seniores habuit , sine quorum consilio nihil agebatur in ecclesiâ , which words are not to be understood of a distinct sort of presbyters from such as were employed in preaching the word , but of such presbyters as were the common council of the church , for the moderating and ruling the affairs of it ; which the church of christ had constituted among them , as the jewish synagogue had before . and from hence we observe that the ebionites , who blended judaism and christianity together ( whence ierome saith of them , dum volent & iudai esse & christiani , nec iudaei sunt nec christiani , they made a linsey-woolsey religion , which was neither iudaism nor christianity ) . these , as epiphanius tells us , called their publike meeting-place 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the pastors of their churches 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . thereby implying the resemblance and analogy between the form of government in both of them . but this will best be made appear by comparing them both together . for which we are to take notice , how much our saviour in the new testament did delight to take up the received practices among the jews only , with such alterations of them as were suitable to the nature and doctrine of christianity , as hath been abundantly manifested by many learned men , about the rites of the lords supper , taken from the post-coenium among the jews ; the use of baptism , from the baptism used in initiating proselytes ; excommunication from their putting out of the synagogue . as to which things , it may be observed , that those rites which our saviour transplanted into the gospel-soyl , were not such as were originally founded on moses his law , but were introduced by a confederate discipline among themselves . and thus it was in reference to the government of the synagogues among them ; for although the reason of erecting them was grounded on a command in the levitical law , levit. . . where holy convocations are required upon the sabbath-dayes ; yet the building of synagogues in the land , was not , as far as we can find , till a great while after . for although moses require the duty of assembling , yet he prescribes no orders for the place of meeting , nor for the manner of spending those dayes in gods service , nor for the persons who were to super-intend the publike worship performed at that time . these being duties of a moral nature , are left more undetermined by moses his law , which is most punctual in the ceremonial part of divine service . and therefore even then when god did determine the positives of worship , we see how much he left the performance of morals to the wisdom and discretion of gods people , to order them in a way agreeable to the mind and will of god. we shall not here discourse of the more elder customs and observations of the synagogues , but take the draught of them by the best light we can about our saviours time , when the apostles copyed out the government of christian-churches by them . about the time of christ , we find synagogues in very great request among the jews ; god so disposing it , that the moral part of his service should be more frequented now the ceremonial was expiring ; and by those places so erected , it might be more facile and easie for the apostles to disperse the gospel by preaching it in those places , to which it was the custome for the people to resort . and as paul at athens observing the altar inscribed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to the unknown god , takes his text from thence , and begins to preach god and christ to them ; so the apostles in every synagogue meet with a copy of the law , from whence they might better take their rise to discover ▪ him who was the end of the law for righteousness to all that believe . for moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him , being read in the synagogues every sabbath day . it was their constant custome then every sabbath day to have the law publickly read ; for which every synagogue was furnished with a most exact copy ; which was looked upon as the great treasure and glory of their synagogue ; in the copying out of which , the greatest care and diligence was used . in their synagogues they read onely the law and the prophets , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or hagiographa were not ordinarily read in publick ; the law , for the more convenient reading it , was distributed into fifty four sections , which they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , every week one section being read ( joyning twice two lesser sections together ) the whole law was read through once every year . but here i cannot say that the jews were absolutely bound up to read the several sections appointed for the dayes , as it is commonly thought ( from which paraschae and the times prefixed of reading them , cloppenburgh fetched a new interpretation of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is , that the first sabbath was that of the civil year which began with the section 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 upon the twenty fourth of the month tisri ; but the second sabbath after the first , was the first sabbath of the sacred year , which began with the section 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 upon the calends of nisan ) but i doe not see any such evidence of so exact and curious a division of the several sections , so long since as the time of our saviour is , which appears by our saviours reading in the synagogue at nazareth where it seems he read after the synagogue custome , as one of the seven called out by the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to read before the people , but we find no section assigned him by him that delivered the book to him ( the office of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) but it is said of him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when he had unfolded the book he found out that place in isaiah . so that then it seems there was no such precise observation of the several sections to be read . and our saviours reading the book of the prophets in the synagogue , puts us in mind of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the sections of the prophets answerable to those of the law ; which elias levita tells us came up after the time of antiochu● epiphanes , who so severely prohibited the jewes the reading of their law , but from that time hath been observed ever since : of which we read in pauls sermon at antioch in pisidia speaking of christ ; for they that dwell at jerusalem and their rulers , because they knew him not , nor the voyces of the prophets which are read every sabbath day . benjamin tudelensis in his itinerary , tells us , that the same custome was not observed among all the jewes for the reading the sections of the law. for in mitsraim ( which he there takes not for egypt it self , as it is commonly taken , but for grand cairo ) where there were near two thousand jewes , there were two synagogues , the one of syrian , the other of babylonian iewes . the latter read over every week an entire section of the law ( as the jewes in spain in his time did ) and so finished the law in a years space . the syrian jews , or those that were born in iudea , divided every section into three parts , and read not the law through , but in three years time . these synagogues were very much multiplyed , both in ierusalem and elsewhere , about the time of our saviours being in the world . when the common tradition of the jewes is , that in ierusalem its self , there were foure hundred and eighty one synagogues , which they ridiculously observe by their gematry , from the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used isa. . . whose numeral letters being put together , amount to that number ; but ● clearer evidence of the multitude of synagogues is our saviours so often appearing in them ; and so likewise the apostles when they went abroad to preach the gospel , we find in most places that they first entred into the synagogues which were , by the liberty given to the jews , allowed them in all the cities where they inhabited by the roman governours . and so in all their dispersions both in babylon , egypt , and the western parts , we read of the synagogues which the jewes enjoyed , and the liberty they had therein for exercise of their own way of worship and discipline . and therefore even at rome we read of their proseuchae , ede ubi consistas ▪ in quâ te quaero proseucha ? which by the old scholiast upon iuvenal is said to be the place ad quem convenire solebant mendici ad stipem petendam , of which turnebus gives this account , proseuchae fana iudaeorum erant , ut alexandriae & romae , alibique ; sic nomen adeptae quòd oracula quaedam essent , vel ( ut christiani loquuntur ) oratoria . cum autem ad eleemosynam iudaei dandam essent propensissimi , eò ceu mendicorum conventus coibat ; sed & iudaei & ipsi mendici , invisi erant omnibus , & mendici ea loca quod domicilia non haberent , diversores interdum occupabant , in iisque cubabant , ideoque proseuches nomen in contemptum abierat . scaliger thinks that the proseucha differed from the synagogue ; for which he is checked by grotius from that place of philo , where he speaks of augustus giving the jews the liberty of their proseucha for the learning the religion of their countrey , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which in brief is that the proseuchae were the schools of all religion and learning , by which words he seems to confound not onely the synagogue and the proseucha together , but the synagogue and the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 too , which was their divinity-school , whither they used to repair after dinner upon sabbath dayes , and where the questions about their law were discussed ; but though i cannot say these were alwayes distinguished , yet in some places they were . such seems the school of tyrannus to be , where paul taught , having withdrawn himself from the synagogue . and so sometimes the proseuchae were distinguished from the synagogues , as grotius himself elsewhere acknowledeth , viz ▪ either ▪ where there was not a competent number of jewes ( for ten students in the law were required to make a synagogue ) or else where the magistrate would not permit the use of them , in which case the poor jewes were fain to content themselves with a place remote from the city , either by some river , as that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , mentioned , acts . , or by some grove or wood , whence that of iuvenal , nunc sacri fontis nemus , & delubra locantur ▪ iudaeis , quorum cophinus foenumque suppellex . which fountain , as vossius observs was extra portam capenam in luco quem medium irrigabat ; and from hence scaliger gathers , iudaeos in nemoribus proseuchas collocâsse . thus it appears now what priviledges the jews generally enjoyed in their dispersion for their synagogues and publike places to meet , pray , and discourse in . we now come to inquire after what manner the government of the synagogue was model'd . wherein we must first inquire whether there were any peculiar government belonging to the synagogue distinct from the civil consistories which were in use among them . this is often left untouched by learned men in their discourse of synagogues ; some indeed make the least consistory or sanhedrin in use among the jews , viz. the triumvirate , to be the rulers of the synagogue , and part of the ten who were to be where ever there was a synagogue . but although i cannot see sufficient evidence for a great ecclesiastical sanhedrin founded by moses , answering to the great sanhedrin of lxxi . yet i conceive it probable , that when synagogues were so multiplied both at home and abroad , there was a distinct bench of officers who did particularly belong to the synagogue to superintend the affairs of that , which i shall now endeavour to make out by these following reasons . first , because the ten required for the synagogue are set down by the jewish writers as distinct from the number required for the civil consistory . for in the gemara babylonia ( cited by selden ) the account given why there must be . inhabitants where there was to be a sanhedrin of twenty three , is this ; there must be twenty three to màke up the sanhedrin , and three orders of twenty three , ( who sat in a hemicycle under the sanhedrin in the same form as they sat ) and besides these the ten who were to be imployed wholly in the affairs of the synagogue ( for the gloss there explains them to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 decem filii hominis vacantes ab omni opere , ut parati sint 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 domui synagogae manè & vesperi , and there adds , that every city , though it be wall'd , where ten such persons are wanting , is looked on onely as a village , and thought unworthy to have a sanhedrin of twenty three ; ) so that by this it appears the number of the decemvirate for the synagogue , was distinct from the persons imployed in the civil courts . to the same purpose maimonides gives the account of the number of . who likewise requires the ten for the synagogue as a distinct and peculiar number . atque hi erant viri qui vacabant tantum rebus divinis , nimirum lectioni legit & sessioni in synagogis , as mr. selden quotes it from another place in him . whereby it is evident that those who were imployed in the synagogue , did make a peculiar bench and consistory , distinct from the civil judicature of the place ▪ and therefore the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are not the civil rulers , but some peculiar officers belonging to the service of the synagogue : and thence when all civil power and government was taken from the jews , yet they retained their archisynagogues still . whence we read of archisynagogues , patriarchs and presbyters among the jewes in the time of arcadius and honorius , when all civil power and jurisdiction was taken from them . the second reason is from the peculiar ordination of those who were the rulers of the synagogues . this i know is denyed by many : because , say they , ordination was proper onely to the presbyters among the jewes , who were thereby made capable of being members of the sanhedrin , thence it was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ordinatio presbyterorum , i. e. impositio manuum quâ presbyteri fiunt . this ordination was i grant primarily used in order to the making men members of the great sanhedrin , and therefore the jewes derive the custome of ordaining them , from moses his first constituting the lxx elders , which say they , was done by imposition of hands : which was seconded by the example of moses laying his hands on ioshua , from whence the custome was continued down among them till the time of adrian , who severely prohibited it by an edict , that whosoever should ordain another should forfeit his life , and so every one that was so ordained . thence the jewes tell us that r. iehuda ben baba is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the ordainer , because in the time of that edict he ordained five presbyters , without which they had wholly lost their succession of presbyters for courts of judicature . but though it be thus evident that their ordination was chiefly used in order to the fitting men to be members of the sanhedrin , yet that besides this there was a peculiar ordination for persons not imployed in civil matters , will appear ; first , from the different forms of their ordination ; some were general without any restriction or limitation at all : which power was conferred in words to this purpose ; ordinatus jam sis , & sit tibi facultas judicandi etiam causas poenales . he that was thus ordained , was ●it for any court of judicature ; but there was another form of ordination which was more particular and restrained ; a form limiting the general power , either to pecuniary cases , or criminal , or onely to the power of binding and loosing , without any judiciary power at all . now those that were thus ordained , were the jewish casuists , resolving men onely in for● conscientiae of the lawfulness and unlawfulness of things propounded to them . this they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 facultas decernendi circa ligatum & solutum ; that is , a power of decreeing what was lawful or unlawfull . for in that sense binding and loosing is used by the jewish writers . in which sense they tell us commonly that one school , as that of hille● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 binds , that is , judgeth a thing unlawful ; another 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 looseth ( as that of schammai ) that is , judgeth it lawful and free to be done . now the persons thus ordained with this power onely , were thereby no members of any civil court of judicature , nor thereby made capable of it : it appears then that this ordination was peculiar to a particular function , which exactly answers to the ministerial office under the gospel . and that those who were thus ordained , either might not , or did not exercise that office of theirs in the synagogue , i can see no reason ; i am sure it was most suitable to that place , or at least to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where there was such a one distinct from the synagogue . but a clearer evidence of the particular ordination of those imployed in the synagogue , we have from benjamin in his itinerary ; for granting his palpable mistakes about the civil power of the jewes in his time ( which was about the middle of the twelfth century ) sufficiently discovered by the learned l'empereur , yet as to the ordaining of persons for the severall synagogues , we have no ground to suspect his testimony , which is very plain and evident . for speaking of r. daniel ben hasdai , who was the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the head of the captivity then residing at bagdad : he tells us , the synagogues of babylon , persia , choresan , sheba , mesopotamia and many other places , derived power from him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of ordaining a rabbi and preacher over every synagogue , which he tells us was done by laying on his hands upon them . these two , the rabbi and the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he makes to be the fixed officers of every synagogue , and the office of the latter lay chiefly in expounding the scriptures . the like he hath of r. nathaniel the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in egypt , to whose office it belonged to ordain in all the synagogues in egypt , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 th 〈…〉 bbies and lecturers of the synagogue : by which we see 〈…〉 arly ▪ that there was a peculiar ordination for the ministers belonging to the synagogue . thence scaliger wonders how christ at twelve years old should be permitted to sit among the doctours asking questions when he was no ordained rabbi , to whom that place belonged . but although 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may possibly mean no more then sitting on one of the lower seats belonging to those who were yet in their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or minority , where they sat at the feet of their teachers , which was not within the temple its self ; but , as arias montanus thinks , was at the east-gate of the temple where the doctors sat ; yet this is evident by scaliger , that he looked on an ordination for that end , as necessary to those who sat in the synagogues , as the doctors there : which is likewise affirmed by grotius , who tell us , that among the jews , not onely all publick civil offices were confer'd by imposition of hands , sed & in archisynagogis & senioribus synagogae , idem observatum ; unde mos 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ad christianos transiit : but likewise all the rulers and elders of the synagogue were so ordained , from whence the custome was translated into christianity ( of which afterwards . ) thus now we have cleared that there was a peculiar government belonging to the synagogue , distinct from the civil judicatures . having thus far proceeded in clearing that there was a peculiar form of government in the synagogue ; we now inquire what that was , and by what law and rule it was observed . the government of the synagogue , either relates to the publick service of god in it , or the publick rule of it as a society . as for the service of god to be performed in it , as there were many parts of it , so there were many officers peculiarly appointed for it . the main part of publick service lay in the reading and expounding the scriptures : for both , the known place of philo will give us light for understanding them . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . coming to their holy places called synagogues , they sit down in convenient order ac●●●ding to their several forms , ready to hear , the young under 〈…〉 der ; then one taketh the book and readeth , another of those best skilled comes after , and expounds it . for so grotius reads it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , out of eusebius . we see two several offices here , the one of the reader in the synagogue , the other of him that did interpret what was read . great difference i find among learned men about the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the synagogue : some by him understand the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , called sometimes in scripture 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so make him the under . reader in the synagogue ; and hence i suppose it is ( and not from looking to the poor , which was the office of the parnasim ) that the office of deacons in the primitive church is supposed to be answerable to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 among the jewes ; for the deacons office in the church , was the publick reading of the scriptures : and hence epiphanius parallels the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 among the jewes , to the bishop , presbyters , and deacons among the christians . but others make the office of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be of a higher nature not to be taken for the reader himself , ( for that was no office ; but upon every sabbath day seven were call'd out to do that work , as buxtorf tells us ; first a priest , then a levite , and after , any five of the people ; and these had every one their set-parts in every section to read , which are still marked by the numbers in some bibles . ) but the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was he that did call out every one of these in their order to read , and did observe their reading , whether they did it exactly or no. so buxtorf speaking of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , hic maximè oratione sive precibus & cantu ecclesi● praeibat , praeerat lectioni legali , docens quod & quomodo legendum , & similibus quae ad sacra pertinebant . so that according to him the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was the superintendent of all the publick service , thence others make him parallel to him they call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the angel of the church , legatus ecclesiae . l'empereur renders it , as though the name were imposed on him as acting in the name of the church , which could only be in offering up publick prayers ; but he was angelus dei , as he was inspector ecclesiae , because the angels are supposed to be more immediately present in , and supervisors over the publick place , and duties of worship ; see cor. . . this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is by l'empereur often rendred concionator synagogae , as though it belonged to him to expound the meaning of what was read in the synagogue , but he that did that was call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to enquire ; thence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the enquirer , or disputer of this world , thence r. moses haddarsan ; but it is in vain to seek for several offices from several names ; nay , it seems not evident , that there was any set-officers in the jewish church for expounding scriptures in all synagogues , or at least not so fixed , but that any one that enjoyed any repute for religion or knowledge in the law , was allowed a free liberty of speaking for the instruction of the people ; as we see in christ and his apostles ; for the rulers of the synagogue sent to paul and barnabas after the reading of the law , that if they had any word of exhortation , they should speak on . from hence it is evident , there were more then one who had rule over the synagogues , they being call'd rulers here . it seems very probable , that in every city where there were ten wise men , ( as there were supposed to be in every place , where there was a synagogue ) that they did all jointly concurr for the ruling the affairs of the synagogue . but what the distinct offices of all these were , it is hard to make out , but all joyning together seem to make the consistory , or bench as some call it , which did unanimously moderate the affairs of the synagogue , whose manner of sitting in the synagogues , is thus described by mr. thorndike out of maimonides , whose words are these : how sit the people in the synagogue ? the elders sit with their faces towards the people , and their backs towards the he●all ( the place where they lay the copy of the law ) and all the people sit rank before rank , the face of every rank towards the back of the rank before it , so the faces of all the people are towards the sanctuary , and towards the elders , and towards the ark ; and when the minister of the synagogue standeth up to prayer , he standeth on the ground before the ark with his face to the sanctuary , as the rest of the people . several things are observable to our purpose in this testimony of maimonides : first , that there were so many elders in the synagogue , as to make a bench or consistory , and therefore had a place by themselves , as the governours of the synagogue . and the truth is , after their dispersion we shall find little government among them , but what was in their synagogues , unlesse it was where they had liberty for erecting schools of learning . besides this colledge of presbyters , we here see the publick minister of the synagogue , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. episcopus congregationis , the superintendent over the congregation , whose peculiar office it was to pray for , and to blesse the people . we are here further to take notice of the form of their sitting in the synagogues ; the presbyters sat together upon a bench by themselves , with their faces towards the people , which was in an hemicycle , the form wherein all the courts of judicature among them sat ; which is fully described by mr. selden , and mr. thorndike in the places above-cited . this was afterwards the form wherein the bishops and presbyters used to sit in the primitive church , as the last named learned author largely observes and proves . besides this colledge of presbyters , there seems to be one particularly call'd the ruler of the synagogue , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the scriptures 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which in the importance of the new testament greek ( following that of the alexandrian iews in the version of the old testament ) implyes no more then a primacy of order in him above the rest he was joyned with . and thence sometimes we read of them in the plural number , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , acts . . implying thereby an equality of power in many ; but by reason of the necessary primacy of one in order above the rest , the name may be appropriated to the president of the colledge . acts . , . we read of two , viz. crispus and sosthenes , and either of them is call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which could not be , did the name import any peculiar power of jurisdiction lodged in one exclusive of the rest , unlesse we make them to be of two synagogues , which we have no evidence at all for ; i confesse , beza his argument from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , mark . . for a multitude of those so call'd in the same synagogue , is of no great force , where we may probably suppose there were many synagogues . but where there is no evidence of more then one in a place , and we find the name attributed to more then one , we have ground to think that there is nothing of power or jurisdiction in that one , which is not common to more besides himself . but granting some peculiarity of honour belonging to one above the rest in a synagogue , which in some places , i see no great reason to to deny , yet that implyes not any power over and above the bench of which he was a member , though the first in order ; much as the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the prince of the sanhedrin , whose place imported no power peculiar to himself , but only a priority of dignity in himself above his fellow senators : as the princeps senatûs in the roman republick answering to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the great sanhedrin , who was next to the nasi , as the princeps senatûs to the consuls , which was only a honorary dignity and nothing else : under which disguise that politick prince augustus ravished the roman commonwealth of its former liberty . the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , may i suppose in propriety of speech be rendred in latin magister ordinis , he being by his office praesul , a name not originally importing any power , but only dignity ; those whom the greeks call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the latins render magistros sui ordinis , and so suetonius interprets 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by magisterium sacerdotii . they who meet then with the name archisynagogues , either in lampridius , vopiscus , codex theodosii , iustinians novels , in all whom it occurs , and in some places as distinct from presbyters , will learn to understand thereby only the highest honour in the synagogue ; considering how little , yea nothing of power the jews enjoyed under either the heathen , or christian emperours . one thing more we add , touching this honour of the rulers of the synagogue among the jews , that whatever honour , title , power or dignity is imported by that name , it came not from any law enforcing or commanding it , but from mutual con●oederation and agreement among the persons imployed in the synagogue , whose natural reason did dictate , that where many have an equality of power , it is most convenient ( by way of accumulation upon that person , of a power more then he had , but not by deprivation of themselves of that inherent power which they enjoyed ) to entrust the management of the executive part of affairs of common concernment to one person specially chosen and deputed thereunto . so it was in all the sanhedrins among the jews , and in all well-ordered senates and councils in the world. and it would be very strange , that any officers of a religious society , should upon that account be out-lawed of those natural liberties , which are the results and products of the free actings of reason . which things , as i have already observed , god hath looked on to be so natural to man , as when he was most strict and punctual in ceremonial commands , he yet left these things wholly at liberty . for we read not of any command , that in the sanhedrin one should have some peculiarity of honour above the rest ; this mens natural reason would prompt them to , by reason of a necessary priority of order in some above others ; which the very instinct of nature hath taught irrational creatures , much more should the light of reason direct men to . but yet all order is not power , nor all power juridical , nor all juridical power a sole power ; therefore it is a meer paralogism in any from order to inferr power , or from a delegated power by consent , to inferr a juridical power by divine right ; or lastly , from a power in common with others , to deduce a power excluding others . all which they are guilty of , who meerly from the name of an archisynagogue , would fetch a perpetual necessity of jurisdiction in one above the elders joyned with him , or from the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the sanhedrin , a power of a sole ordination in one without the consent of his fellow senators . but of these afterwards . thus much may suffice for a draught in little of the government of the jewish synagogue . having thus far represented the jewish synagogue , that the idea of its government may be formed in our understandings , we now come to consider how far , and in what the apostles in forming christian ▪ churches did follow the pattern of the jewish synagogue . which is a notion not yet so far improved as i conceive it may be , and i know no one more conducible to the happy end of composing our differences , touching the government of the church then this is . i shall therefore for the full clearing of it , premise some general considerations to make way for the entertainment of this hypothesis in mens minds , at least as probable ; and then endeavour particularly to shew how the apostles did observe the model of the synagogue ; in its publike service , in ordination of church officers , in forming presbyteries in the several churches , in ruling and governing those presbyteries ▪ the general consideration i premise , to shew the probability of what i am asserting , shall be from these things : from the community of name and customs between the believing iews and others , at the first forming of churches : from the apostles forming churches out of synagogues in their travelling abroad ; from the agreeablenesse of that model of government to the state of the christian churches at that time . i begin with the first , from the community of names and customs between the believing and unbelieving iews at the first forming churches . all the while our blessed saviour was living in the world , christ and his disciples went still under the name of jews ; they neither renounced the name , nor the customs in use among them . our saviour goes up to the feasts at ierusalem , conforms to all the rites and customs in use then ; not only those commanded by god himself , but those taken up by the jews themselves , if not contrary to gods commands , as in observing the feast of dedication , in going into their synagogues , and teaching so often there , in washing the feet of the disciples , ( a custome used by them before the passeover ) in using baptism , for the proselyting men to the profession of christianity , &c. in these and other things our saviour conformed to the received practice among them , though the things themselves were no wayes commanded by the law of moses . and after his resurrection , when he took care for the forming of a church upon the doctrine he had delivered , yet we find not the apostles withdrawing from communion with the jews , but on the contrary , we find the disciples frequenting the temple , act. . . act. . . act. . , , . whereby it appears how they owned themselves as jews still , observing the same both time and place for publike worship which were in use among the jews . we find paul presently after his conversion in the synagogues , preaching that christ whom he had before persecuted ; and where ever he goes abroad afterwards , we find him still entering into the synagogues to preach ; where we cannot conceive he should have so free and easie admission , unlesse the jews did look upon him as one of their own religion , and observing the same customs in the synagogues with themselves , only differing in the point of the coming of the messias , and the obligation of the ceremonial law , the least footsteps of which were seen in the synagogue-worship . but that which yet further clears this , is the general prejudice of the disciples against the gentiles , even after the giving of the holy ghost , as appears by their contending with peter for going in to men uncircumcised . it is evident , that then the apostles themselves did not clearly apprehend the extent of their commission ; for else what made peter so shy of going to corn●lius ? but by every creature , and all nations , they only apprehended the jews in their dispersions abroad , or at least , that all others who were to be saved , must be by being proselyted to the jews , and observing the law of moses , together with the gospel of christ. and therefore we see the necessity of circumcision much pressed by the believing jews which came down from ierusalem , which raised so high a dispute , that a convention of the apostles together at ierusalem was called for the ending of it ; and even there we find great heats before the businesse could be decided , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , after there had been much disputing . nay after this council , and the determination of the apostles therein , all the ease and release that was granted , was only to the gentile-converts ; but the jews stick close to their old principles still , and are as zealous of the customes of the jews as ever before . for which we have a pregnant testimony in act. . , , . where the elders of the church of ierusalem tell paul there were many myriads 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of believing iews , who were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , all very zealous for the law still , and therefore had conceived a sinister opinion of paul , as one that taught a defection from the law of moses , saying , they might not circumcise their children , nor walk after the customs . one copy reads it as beza tells us , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to follow the custome of their fathers . we see how equally zealous they are for the customes obtaining among them , as for the law its self . and is it then any wayes probable that these who continued such zealots for the customs among them , should not observe those customs in use in the synagogues for the government of the church ? might not they have been charged as well as paul with relinquishing the customs , if they had thrown off the model of the jewish synagogue , and take up some customes different from that ? and that which further confirms this , is , that this church of ierusalem continued still in its zeal for the law , till after the destruction of the temple ; and all the several pastors of that church ( whom ecclesiastical writers call bishops ) were of the circumcision . for both we have the testimony of sulpitius severus , speaking of the time of adrian . et quia christiani ex iudaeis potissimum putabantur ( namque tum hierosolymae , non nisi ex circumcisione habebat ecclesia sacerdotem ) militum cohortem custodias in perpetuum agitare jussit , quae iudaeos omnes hierosolymae aditu arceret . quod quidem christiana fidei proficiebat ; quia tum pene omnes christum deum , sub legis observatione , credebant . we see hereby that the christians observed still the law with the gospel ; and that the jews and christians were both reckoned as one body , which must imply an observation of the same rites and customes among them : for those are the things whereby societies are distinguished most . now it is evident , that the romans made no distinction at first between the jews and christians . thence we read in the time of claudius , when the edict came out against the jews , aquila and priscilla , though converted to christianity , were forced to leave italy upon that account , being still looked on as jews ; yet these are called by paul , his helpers in christ iesus . for which onuphrius gives this reason , nullum adhuc inter iudaeos & christianos discrimen noscebatur , which account is likewise given by alphonsus ciaconius ; congeneres & comprofessores ejusdem religionis gentilibus censebantur ( christiani pariter ac iudaei ) . the edict of claudius we may read still in suetonius , iudaeos impulsore christo assiduè tumultuantes roma expulit . we find here the edict fully expressed for banishing the jews , and the occasion set down ; which most interpret of the doctrine of christ , as the occasion of the stirs between the jews and christians . for the romans called christ chrestus , and christians , chrestiani , as the authors of the christians apologies against the heathens often tell us . but marcellus donatus conjectures this christus to have been some seditious jew called by that name ; for which he brings many inscriptions wherein the name occurrs , but none wherein it is given to a jew ; which should be first produced , before we leave the received interpretation of it . however that be , we see the jews and christians equally undergo the punishment without any difference observed in them ; and therefore when paul was brought before gallio the proconsul of achaia , he looked upon the difference between the jews and paul to be only a question of words and names , and of their law , and thereupon refused to meddle with it . and so celsus upbraids both jews and christians , as though their contentions were about a matter of nothing . by all this we may now consider , how little the christians did vary from the customs and practice of the jews , when they were thought by those who were equally enemies to both , to be of the same body and community . which consideration will make the thing i aim at , seem more probable , when withall we observe that the jewish customs in their synagogues , were those whereby they were most known among the romans ; and therefore when they looked on the christians as of the same religion with the jews , it is evident they observed no difference as to their publick practises in their religious societies . which is the first consideration , to shew how probable it is that christians observed the same form in government with what they found in the synagogues . to which i add a second consideration ; which is the apostles forming christian churches out of jewish synagogues . we have already shewed how much their resort was to them in their preaching from the constant practice of paul , although he was in a more peculiar manner the apostle of the uncircumcision ; much more then is it probable that the others , especially peter , iames , and iohn did resort to the circumcision . and in the setling things at first , we see how fearful the apostles were of giving offence to the jews , how ready to condescend to them in any thing they lawfully might . and can we think that paul would yield so far to the jews as to circumcise timothy , rather then give offence to the jews in those parts where he was , ( and that in a thing which seemed most immediately to thwart the design of the gospel , as circumcision did , witness the apostle himself ; ) that yet he would scruple the retaining the old model of the synagogue , when there was nothing in it at all repugnant to the doctrine of the gospel , or the nature and constitution of christian churches ? when the apostles then , did not only gather churches out of synagogues , but at some places in probability whole synagogues were converted as well as whole churches formed , what shew of reason can be given why the apostles should flight the constitution of the jewish synagogues , which had no dependance on the jewish hierarchy , and subsisted not by any command of the ceremonial law ? the work of the synagogue not belonging to the priest as such , but as persons qualified for instructing others , and the first model of the synagogue government is with a great deal of probability derived from the schools of the prophets and the government thereof . this consideration would be further improved , if the notion of distinct coetus of the jewish and gentile christians in the same places could be made out by any irrefragable testimony of antiquity , or clear evidence of reason drawn from scripture : because the same reason which would ground the distinction of the jewish church from the gentile , would likewise hold for the jewish church to retain her old form of government in the synagogue way . for it must be some kind of peculiarity supposed by the jews in themselves as distinct from the gentiles , which did make them form a distinct congregation from them ; which peculiarity did imply the observing those customes among them still , by which that peculiarity was known to others ; among which those of the synagogue were not the least known or taken notice of . but i must freely confesse , i find not any thing brought by that learned person , who hath managed this hypothesis with the greatest dexterity , to have that evidence in it which will command assent from an unprejudicated mind . and it is pitty that such infirm hypotheses should be made use of for the justifying our separation from rome , which was built upon reasons of greater strength and evidence , then those which have been of late pleaded by some assertors of the protestant cause , though men of excellent abilities and learning . for there are many reasons convictive enough , that peter had no universal power over the church , supposing that there was no such thing as a distinction between the jewish and gentile coetus . i deny not but at first , before the jews were fully satisfied of the gentiles right to gospel priviledges , they were very shy of communicating with them , especially the believing jews of the church of ierusalem , : upon the occasion of some of whom coming down to antioch from iames , it was , that peter withdrew and separated himself from the gentiles , with whom before he familiarly conversed . which action of his is so far from being an argument of the setling any distinct church of the jews from the gentiles there , that it yields many reasons against it . for first , peters withdrawing was only occasional , and not out of design ; whereas , had it been part of his commission to do it , we cannot conceive peter so mindlesse of his office , as to let it alone till some jews came down from ierusalem to tell him of it . secondly , it was not for the sake of the jews at antioch that he withdrew , but for the jews which came down from ierusalem ; whereas , had he intended a distinct church of the jews , he would before have setled and fixed them as members of another body ; but now it evidently appears , that not only peter himself , but the jews with him , did before those jews coming to antioch associate with the gentiles , which is evident by v. . and other iews dissembled likewise with him , in so much that barnabas also was carryed away with their dissimulation . whereby it is clear , that these jews did before joyn with the gentile-christians , or else they could not be said to be led away with the dissimulation of peter . thirdly , st. paul is so far from looking upon this withdrawing of peter , and the iews from the gentiles society to be a part of st. peters office , that he openly and sharply reproves him for it . what then , was paul so ignorant , that there must be two distinct churches of iews and gentiles there , that he calls this action of his dissimulation ? in all reason then , supposing this notion to be true , the blame lights on paul , and not on peter : as not understanding , that the jews were to be formed into distinct bodies from the gentile-christians . and therefore it is observable that the same author who is produced , as asserting , that seorsim quae ex iudais erant ecclesiae habebantur , nec his quae ●rant ex gentibus miscebantur , is he , who makes this reproo● of peter by paul , to be a meer matter of dissimulation between them both ; which sense of that action whoever will be so favourable to it as to embrace it , ( as some seem inclinable to do it ) will never be able to answer the arguments brought by st. augustine against it . this place then was unhappily light upon to ground a distinction of the several coeius , or distinct churches of jews and christians at antioch . but , it may be , more evidence for it may be seen in the rescript of the council of ierusalem , which is directed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to the brethren of antioch , those of the gentiles . but. lest some hidden mysteries should lye in this curtailing the words , let us see them at large . unto the brethren which are of the gentiles in antioch , and syria , and cilicia . there was nothing then peculiar to those of the gentiles at antioch more then in syria and cilicia ; and if those words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 imply a coetus distinct of gentile-christians , from the jews at antioch , it must do so through all syria , and cilicia , which was pauls province , and not peters , as appears by his travels in the acts. e●the● then the apostle of the uncircumcision must form distinct : churches of iews and gentiles in his preaching through syria and silicia ▪ ( which is irreconcilable with the former pretence of distinct provinces , asserted by the same author , who pleads for distinct coetus ) or the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , can imply no such thing as a distinct church of gentiles to whomsover it is spoken ; and so not at antioch more then through all syria and silicia . the plain ground then of the apostles inscribing the order of the council to the brethren of the gentiles , was , because the matter of that order did particularly concern them , and not the jews , as is obvious to any that will but cast an eye upon the , , . verses of the . of the acts. as well might then an order supposed from the apostles to the several pastors of the churches in things concerning them as such , imply that they make distinct churches from their people , as this order concerning the gentile brethren , being therefore directed to them , doth imply their making distinct churches from the jewish brethren in the cities where they lived together . what is further produced out of antiquity to this purpose , hath neither evidence nor pertinency enough , to stop the passage of one who is returning from this digression to his former matter . although then we grant not any such distinct coetus of the jews from the christians , yet that hinders not , but that both jews and christians joyning together in one church , might retain still the synagogue form of government among them ; which there was no reason at all , why the christians should scruple the using of , either as jews or gentiles , because it imported nothing either typical and ceremonial , or heavy and burdensome , which were the grounds , why former customs in use among the jews were laid aside by the christians . but instead of that , it was most suitable and agreeable to the state of the churches in apostolical times , which was the third consideration to make it probable , that the synagogue form of government was used by the christians . and the suitablenesse of this government to the churches , lay in the conveniency of it for the attaining all ends of government in that condition wherein the churches were at that time . for church officers acting then either in gathering or governing churches ▪ without any authority from magistrates , such a way of government was most suitable to their several churches , as whereby the churches might be governed , and yet have no dependancy upon the secular power , which the way of government in the synagogues was most convenient for ; for the jews , though they enjoyed a bare permission from the civil state where they lived , yet by the exercise of their synagogue government ▪ they were able to order all affairs belonging to the service of god , and to keep all members belonging to their several synagogues in unity and peace among themselves . the case was the same as to synagogues and churches ; these subsisted by the same permission which the others enjoyed ; the end of these was the service of god , and preserving that order among them which might best become societies so constituted ; there can be no reason then assigned , why the apostles in setling particular churches should not follow the synagogue in its model of government . these things may suffice to make it appear probable that they did so , which is all these considerations tend to . having thus prepared the way by making it probable , i now further enquire into the particular part of government , and what orders in the synagogue were , which there is any evidence for , that the apostles did take up and follow . here i begin with the thing first propounded , the orders of publick worship , which did much resemble those of the synagogue ; only with those alterations which did arise from the advancing of christianity . that the christians had their publick and set ▪ meetings for the service of god , is evident from the first rising of a society constituted upon the account of christianity . we read of the three thousand converted by peters sermon , that they continued in the apostles doctrine and fellowship , and breaking of bread , and prayers . where we have all that was observed in the synagogue , and somewhat more ; here there is publick joyning together , implyed in the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , their solemn prayers expressed , which were constantly observed in the synagogue ; instead of reading the sections of the law and prophets , we have the apostles teaching by immediate inspiration ; and to all these as the proper service of christianity , is set down the celebration of the lords-supper , which we shall seldome or ever in the primitive church , read the publick service on lords dayes performed without . during the apostolical times , in which there was such a land-flood of extraordinary gifts overflowing the church , in the publick meeting we find those persons who were indued with those gifts , to be much in exercising them ( as to the custom , agreeing with the synagogue ; but , as to the gifts , exceeding it ) concerning the ordering of which for the publick edification of the church , the apostle paul layes down so many rules in the fourteenth chapter to the corinthians ; but assoon as this flood began to abate , which was then necessary for the quicker softening the world for receiving christianity , the publick service began to run in its former channel , as is apparent from the unquestionable testimonies of iustin martyr and tertullian , who most fully relate to us , the order of publick worship used among the christians at that time . iustin martyr , the most ancient next to clemens ( whose epistle is lately recovered to the christian world ) of the unquestionable writers of the primitive church , gives us a clear narration of the publick orders observed by the church in his time : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . upon the day call'd sunday , all the christians whether in town or country assemble in the same place , wherein the memoires or commentaries of the apostles and the writings of the prophets are read as long as the time will permit ; then the reader sitting down , the president of the assembly stands up and makes a sermon of instruction and exhortation to the following so good examples . after this is ended , we all stand up to prayers ; prayers ended , the bread , wine and water are all brought forth ; then the president again praying and praising to his utmost ability , the people testifie their consent by saying amen . what could have been spoken with greater congruity or correspondency to the synagogue , abating the necessary observation of the bucharist as proper to christianity ? here we have the scriptures read by one appointed for that purpose , as it was in the synagogue ; after which follows the word of exhortation in use among them by the president of the assembly , answering to the ruler of the synagogue ; after this , the publick prayers performed by the same president , as among the jews by the publick minister of the synagogue ( as is already observed out of maimoni ) , then the solemn acclamation of amen by the people , the undoubted practice of the synagogue . to the same purpose tertullian , who , if he had been to set forth the practice of the synagogue , could scarce have made choyce of words more accommodated to that purpose . coimus ( saith he ) in coetum & congregationem , ut ad deum quasi manu factà precationibus ambiamus or antes — cogimur ad divinarum literarum commemorationem , si quid praesentium temporum qualitas aut praemonere cogit aut recognoscere . certè fidem sanctis vocibus pascimus , spem erigimus , fi●uciam figimus , disciplinam praeceptorum nihilominus inculcationibus densamus ; ibidem etiam exhortationes , castigationes , & censura divina . nam & judicatur magno cum pondere , ut apud certos de dei conspectu , summumque futuri judicii prae judicium est , siquis ita deliquerit , ut à communicatione orationis & conventûs & omnis sancti commercii relegetur . prasident probati quique seniores , honorem istum non pretio sed testimonio adepti . where we have the same orders for prayers , reading the scriptures according to occasions , and sermons made out of them for increase of faith , raising hope , strengthening confidence . we have the discipline of the church answering the admonitions , and excommunication of the synagogue ; and last of all , we have the bench of elders sitting in these assemblies , and ordering the things belonging to them . thus much for the general correspondency between the publick service of the church and synagogue ; they that would see more particulars , may read our learned mr. thorndikes discourse of the service of god in religious assemblies . whose design throughout is to make this out more at large ; but we must only touch at these things by the way ; as it were , look into the synagogue , and go on our way . we therefore proceed from their service , to their custom of ordination , which was evidently taken up by the christians from a correspondency to the synagogue . for which we are first to take notice , that the rulers of the church under the gospel , do not properly succeed the priests and levites under the law , who●e office was ceremonial , and who were not admitted by any solemn ordination into their function , but succeeded by birth into their places ; only the great sanhedrin did judge of their fitnesse , as to birth and body , before their entrance upon their function . so the jewish doctors tell us 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. in the stone parlour , the great sanhedrin of israel sat , and did there judge the priests . the priest that was found defective , put on mourning garments , and so went forth ▪ he that was not , put on white , and went in and ministred with the priests his brethren . and when no fault was found in the sons of aaron , they observed a festival solemnity for it . three things are observable in this testimony : first , that the inquiry that was made concerning the priests , was chiefly concerning the purity of their birth , and the freedom of their bodies from those defects which the law mentions , unlesse in the case of grosser and more scandalous sins , as idolatry , murther , &c. by which they were excluded from the priestly office. the second , is , that the great sanhedrin had this inspection over , and examination of the priests before their admission ; for what that learned man const. l'empereur there conjectures , that there was an ecclesiastical sanhedrin which did passe judgement on these things , is overthrown by the very words of the talmudists already cited . the last thing observable , is , the garments which the priests put on , viz. white rayment upon his approbation by the sanhedrin , and soon after they were admitted into the temple with great joy ; to which our saviour manifestly alludes , revel . . . . thou hast a few names even in sardis which have not defiled their garments , and they shall walk with me in white , for they are worthy . he that overcometh , the same shall be cloathed in white rayment . but the priests under the law , were never ordained by imposition of hands , as the elders and rulers of the synagogue were ; and if any of them came to that office , they as well as others had peculiar designation and appointment to it . it is then a common mistake to think that the ministers of the gospel succeed by way of correspondence and analogy to the priests under the law ; which mistake hath been the foundation and original of many errors . for when in the primitive church , the name of priests came to be attributed to gospel-ministers from a fair complyance ( as was thought then ) of the christians onely to the name used both among jewes and gentiles ; in process of time , corruptions increasing in the church , those names that were used by the christians by way of analogy and accommodation , brought in the things themselves primarily intended by those names ; so by the metaphorical names of priests and altars , at last came up the sacrifice of the mass ; without which , they thought the names of priests and altar were insignificant . this mistake we see run all along through the writers of the church , assoon as the name priests was applyed to the elders of the church , that they derived their succession from the priests of aarons order , presbyterorum ordo exordium sumpsit à filiis aaron . qui enim sacerdotes vocabantur in v●teri testamento , hi sunt qui nunc appestantur presbyteri : & qui nuncupabantur principes sacerdotum , nuno episcopi nominantur ; as isidorus ; and ivo tell us . so before them both , ierome in his known epistle to evagrius . et ut sciamus traditiones apostolicas sumptas de veteri testamento , quod aaron & filii ejus atque levitae in temple fuerunt : hoc sibi episcopi & presbyteri atque diaconi vendicent in ecclesia . from which words a leo●ned doctor , and strenuous assertor of the jus divinum of prelacy , questions not but to make ierome , either apparently contradictious to himself , or else to assert , that the superiority of bishops above presbyters was by his confession an apostolical tradition . for saith he , nihil manifestius dici potuit ; and s. . quid ad hoc responderi possit , aut quo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 artificio deliniri aut deludi tam diserta affirmatio , fateor ego ●e divinando assequi non posse ; sed è contra exiis quae d. blondellus , quae walo , quae ludov. capellus h●c in re praestiterunt , mihi persuasissimum esse , nihil uspiam contra aperta● lucem obtendi posse . in a case then so desperate as poor ierome lies in , by a wound he is supposed to have given himself , when the priest and the levite hath passed him by , it will be a piece of charity in our passing by the way a little to consider his case , to see whether there be any hopes of recovery . we take it then for granted , that ierome hath already said , that apostolus perspi●uè docet , eosdem esse presbytsros quos & episcopos , in the same epistle which he proves there at large ; and in another place ; si●●t ergo presbyteri sciunt se ex ecclesiae consuetudine , ei qui sibi praeposi●us fuerit , esse subjectos ; it a episcopi noverint se magis consuetudine , quam disposition is dominicae veritate presbyteris esse majores , & in commune debere ecclesiam regere . the difficulty now lyes in the reconciling this with what is before c●ted out of the same author ; some solve it by saying , that , in ieroms sense apostolical tradition and ecclesiaestical custome are the same , as ad marcellum , he saith the observation of lent is apostolica traditio , and advers . luciferian , shith , it is ecclesiae consu●tudo ; so that by apostolical tradition , he meant not an apostolical institution , but an ecclesiastical custome . and if ierome speak according to the general vogue , this solution may be sufficient notwithstanding what is said against it : for , according to that common rule of austin , things that were generally in use , and no certain author assigned of them , were attributed to the apostles . two things therefore i shall lay down for reconciling ierome to himself : the first is , the difference between traditio apostolica , and traditio apostolorum ; this latter doth indeed imply the thing spoken of to have proceeded from the apostles themselves ; but the former may be applyed to what was in practice after the apostles times ; and the reason of it is ▪ that what ever was done in the primitive church , supposed to be agreeable to apostolical practice , was called apostolical . thence the bishops see was called sedes apostolic● , as tertullian tells us , ob consang●i●itatem doctrinae . so sidonius apollinaris calls the see of l●p●s the bishop of tricassium in france , sedem apostolicam . and the bishops of the church were called viri apostolici , and thence the constitutions which goe under the apostles names , were so called , saith ▪ albaspinaeus , ab antiquitate : ●nam cum corum aliquot ab apostolorum successoribus ( qui teste tertullian● ▪ apostolici viri ●omi●ahantur . ) facti essent , apostolicorum primù●● canones , deinde nonnullorum latinorum ignorantia , aliquot literarum detractione , apostolorum dicti sunt . by which we see what ever was conceived to be of any great antiquity in the church , though it was not thought to have come from the apostles themselves , yet it was called apostolioal ▪ so that in this sense , traditio apostolica , is no more then traditio autiqua , or ab apostolicis viris profecta , which was meant rather of those that were conceived to succeed the apostles , then of the apostles themselves . but i answer , secondly , that granting traditio apostolica to mean traditio apostolorum , yet ierome is far from contradicting himself , which is obvious to any that will read the words before , and consider their coherence . the scope and drift of his epistle , is to chastise the arrogance of one who made deacons superiour to presbyters . audio quendam in tantam erupisse vecordiam ut diaconos presbyteris , id est , episcopis anteferret , and so spends a great part of the epistle , to prove that a bishop and presbyter are the same ; and at last brings in these words ; giving the account , why paul to timothy and titus mentions no presbyters ; quia in episcopo & presbyter continetur . aut igitur ex presbytero ordinetur diaconus , ut presbyter minor diacono comprobetur , in quem crescat ex parv● ; aut si ex diacono ordinatur presbyter , noverit se lucris minorem , sacerdo●i● esse majorem . and then presently adds , et ut sciamus traditiones apostolicas sumptas de veteri testamento , quod aaron & filii ejus atq ▪ levitae in templo fuerunt , hoc sibi episcopi & presbyteri atque diaconi vendicent in ecclesiâ . it it imaginable that a man who had been proving all along the superiority of a presbyter above a deacon , because of his identity with a bishop in the aposties times , should at the same time say , that a bishop was above a presbyter by the apostles institution , and so directly overthrow all he had been saying before ? much as if one should go about to prove that the pr●fectus urbis , and the curatores urbis in alexander severus his time● ▪ were the same office , and to that end should make use of the constitution of that emperour whereby he appointed . curatores urbis , and set the praefectus in an office above them . such an incongruity is scarce incident to a man of very ordinary esteem for intellectuals , much less to such a one as ierome is reputed to be . the plain meaning then of ierome is no more but this , that as aaron and his sons in the order of priesthood were above the levites under the law : so the bishops and presbyters in the order of the evangelical priesthood are above the deacons under the gospel . for the comparison runs not between aaron and his sons under the law , and bishops and presbyters under the gospel ; but between aaron and his sonnes as one part of the comparison under the law , and the levites under them as the other ; so under the gospel , bishops and presbyters make one part of the comparison , answering to aaron and his sonnes in that wherein they all agree ; viz. the order of priest hood ; and the other part under the gospel is that of deacons answering to the levites under the law. the opposition is not then in the power of jurisdiction between bishops and priests , but between the same power of order , which is alike both in bishops and presbyters ( according to the acknowledgement of all ) to the office of deacons which stood in competition with them . thus i hope we have left ierome at perfect harmony with himself , notwithstanding the attempt made to make him so palpably contradict himself ; which having thus done , we are at liberty to proceed in our former course ; onely hereby we see how unhappily those arguments succeed which are brought from the analogy between the aaronical priest hood , to endeavour the setting up of a ius divinum of a parallel superiority under the gospel . all which arguments are taken off by this one thing we are now upon , viz. that the orders and degrees under the gospel , were not taken up from analogy to the temple , but to the synagogue : which we now make out as to ordination , in three things ; the manner of conferring it , the persons authorized to do it , the remaining effect of it upon the person receiving it . first ▪ for the manner of conferring it ; that under the synagogue was done by laying on of hands : which was taken up among the jewes as a significative rite in the ordaining the elders among them , and thereby qualifying them either to be members of their sanhedrins , or teachers of the law. a● twofold use i find of this symbolical rite , beside the solemn designation of the person on whom the hands are laid . the first is to denote the delivery of the person or thing thus laid hands upon , for the right , use , and peculiar service of god , and that i suppose was the reason of laying hands upon the beast under the law , which was to be sacrificed , thereby noting their own parting with any right in it , and giving it up to be the lords for a sacrifice to him . thus in the civill law this delivery is requisite in the transferring dominion , which they call translatio de manu in manum . the second end of laying on of hands was the solemn iuvocation of the divine presence and assistance to be upon , and with the person upon whom the hands are thus laid . for the hands with us being the instruments of action , they did by stretching out their hands upon the person , represent the efficacy of divine power which they implored in behalf of the per●on thus designed . tunc enim ●rabant ut sic dei efficacia esset super illum , sicut manus efficaciae symbolum , ei imponebatur as grotius observes . thence in all solemn prayers , wherein any person was particularly designed , they made use of this custome of imposition of hands : from which custome , augustine speaks , quid aliud est manuum impositio nisi oratio super hominem ? thence when iacob prayed over iosephs children , he laid his hands upon them ; so when moses prayed over ioshua . the practice likewise our saviour used in blessing children , healing the sick , and the apostles in conferring the gifts of the holy-ghost ; and from thence it was conveyed into the practice of the primitive church ▪ who used it in any more solemn invocation of the name of god in behalf of any particular persons , as over the sick upon repentance and reconciliation to the church , in confirmation , and in matrimony ; which ( as grotius observes ) is to this day used in the abissine churches . but the most solemn and peculiar use of this imposition of hands among the jews was in the designing of any persons for any publike imployment among them : not as though the bare imposition of hands , did conferre any power upon the person , ( no more then the bare delivery of a thing in law gives a legall title to it , without express transferring dominion with it ) but with that ceremony they joyned those words whereby they did confer that authority upon them : which were to this purpose 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ecce sis tu ordinatus , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ego ordino te , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sis ordinatus , to which they added according to the authority they ordained them to , some thing peculiarly expressing it , whether it was for causes finable , or pecuniary , or binding and loosing , or ruling in the synagogue . which is a thing deserving consideration by those who use the rite of imposing hands in ordination , without any thing expressing that authority they convey by that ordination . this custome being so generally in use among the jews in the time when the apostles were sent forth with authority for gathering and setling churches , we find them accordingly making use of this , according to the former practice , either in any more solemn invocation of the presence of god upon any persons , or designation and appointing them for any peculiar service or function : for we have no ground to think that the apostles had any peculiar command for laying on their hands upon persons in prayer over them , or ordination of them : but the thing its self being enjoyned them , viz. the setting apart some persons for the peculiar work of attendance upon the necessities of the churches by them planted , they took up and made use of a laudable rite and custome then in use upon such occasions . and so we find the apostles using it in the solemn designation of some persons to the office of deacons , answering to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the synagogue , whose office was to collect the moneys for the poor , and to distribute it among them . afterwards we read it used upon an occasion not heard of in the synagogue , which was for the conferring the gifts of the holy-ghost ; but although the occasion was extraordinary , yet supposing the occasion , the use of that rite in it , was very suitable , in as much as those gifts did so much answer to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which the jewes conceived did rest upon those who were so ordained by imposition of hands . the next time we meet with this rite , was upon a peculiar designation to a particular service of persons already appointed by god for the work of the ministry , which is of paul and barnabas by the prophets and teachers at antioch ▪ whereby god doth set forth the use of that rite of ordination to the christian churches ▪ accordingly we find it after practised in the church ▪ timothy being ordained by the laying on of the hands of the presbytery . and timothy hath direction given him for the right management of it afterwards , lay hands suddenly on no man. for they that would interpret that of reconciling men to the church by that rite , must first give us evidence of so early an use of that custome , which doth not yet appear . but there is one place commonly brought to prove that the apostles in ordaining elders in the christian churches , did not observe the jewish form of laying on of hands , but observed a way quite different from the jewish practice , viz. appointing them by the choice consent and suffrages of the people . which place is acts ▪ . where it is said of paul and barnabas 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : we render it ordaining them elders in every church . but others from the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 would have it rendered ▪ when they had appointed elders by the suffrages of the people . but how little the peoples power of ordination can be inferred from these words , will be evident to any one that shall but consider these things . first , that though 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 did originally signifie the choosing by way of suffrage among the greeks , yet before the time of lukes writing this , the word was used for simple designation without that ceremony . so hesychius interprets it by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the word used of titus for ordaining elders in every city ; and in demosthenes and others it occurs for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to decree and appoint ; and that sense of the word appears in saint luke himself , acts . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , witnesses foreappointed of god. many examples of this signification are brought by learned men of writers , before , and about the time when luke writ , from philo iudaeus , iosephus , appian , lucian and others . but secondly ▪ granting it used in the primary signification of the word , yet it cannot be applied to the people , but to paul and barnabas ; for it is not said that the people did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but that paul and barnabas did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : now where ever that word is used in its first signification , it is implyed to be the action of the persons themselves giving suffrages , and not for other persons appointing by the suffrages of others . thirdly , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may import no more then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in that laying on of the hands must suppose the stretching them out : which is onely a common figure in scripture for the antecedent to be put for the consequent , or one part for the whole action ; and concerning this sense of the word in ecclesiastical writers , see the large quotations in bishop bilson to this purpose . fourthly , it seems strangely improbable that the apostles should put the choice at that time into the hands of the people , when there were none fitted for the work the apostles designed them for ; but whom the apostles did lay their hands on , by which the holy ghost sell upon them , whereby they were fitted and qualified for that work . the people then could no wayes choose men for their abilities when their abilities were consequen● to their ordination . so much to clear the manner of ordination to have been from the synagogue . the second thing we consider , is , the persons authorized to do it : whom we consider under a double respect , before their liberties were bound up by compact among themselves ; and after . first , before they had restrained themselves of their own liberty , then the general rule for ordinations among them was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 every one regularly ordained , himself had the power of ordaining his disciples , as maimonides affirms . to the same purpose is that testimony of the gemara babylonia in master selden 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rabbi abba bar ionah said , that in times of old , every one was wont to ordain his own disciples : to which purpose many instances are there brought . but it is generally agreed among them , that in the time of hillel this course was altered , and they were restrained from their former liberty ; in probability finding the many inconveniences of so common ordinations ; or , as they say , out of their great reverence to the house of hillel , they then agreed that none should ordain others without the presence of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the prince of the sanhedrin , or a license obtained from him for that end ; and it was determined that all ordinations without the consent of the prince of the sanhedrin should be looked upon as null and void ; which is attested by the former authors . the same distinct on may be observed under the gospel in reference to the fixed officers of the church ; for we may consider them in their first state and period , as the presbyters did rule the churches in common , as hierom tells us , communi presbyterorum conci●io ecclesi● gubernabantur : before the jurisdiction of presbyters was restrained by mutual consent , in this instant doubtlesse , the presbyters enjoyed the same liberty that the presbyters among the jews did , of ordaining other presbyters by that power they were invested in at their own ordination . to which purpose we shall only at present take notice of the confession of two canonists , who are the h●ghest among the papists , for defence of a distinct order of episcopacy . yet gratian himself confesseth , sacros ordines dicimus diaconatum & presbyteratum ; hos quidem solos ecclesia primitiva habuisse dicitur . and iohannes semeca in his gloss upon the canon law ; dicunt quidem quod in ecclesia prima-primitiva commune erat officium episcoporum & sacerdotum , & nomina erant communia . — sed in secundâ primitivâ coeperunt distingui & nomina & officia . here we have a distinction of the primitive church very agreeable both to the opinion of hierom , and the matter we are now upon ; in the first primitive church , the presbyters all acted in common for the welfare of the church , and either did or might ordain others to the same authority with themselves ; because the intrinsecal power of order is equally in them , and in those who were after appointed governours over presbyteries . and the collation of orders doth come from the power of order , and not mee●ly from the power of jurisdiction . it being likewise fully acknowledged by the schoolmen , that bishops are not superiour above presbyters , as to the power of order . but the clearest evidence of this , is in the church of alexandria , of which hierom speaks ; nam & alexandria à marco evangelistâ usque ad heraclam & dionysium episcopos , presbyteri semper unum ex se electum , in excelsiori gradu coll●catum , episcopum nominabant ; quomodo si exercitus imperatorem faciat , aut diaconi eligant de se quem industrium noverint , & archidiaconum vocent . that learned doctor who would perswade us that the presbyters did only make choice of the person , but the ordination was performed by other bishops , would do well first to tell us , who and where those bishops in aegypt were , who did consecrate or ordain the bishop of alexandria after his election by the presbyters ; especially , while aegypt remained but one province , under the government of the praefectus augustalis . secondly , how had this been in the least pertinent to hieroms purpose to have made a particular instance in the church of alexandria , for that which was common to all other churches besides ? for the old rule of the canon-law for bishops was , electio clericorum est , consensus principis , petitio plebis . thirdly , this election in hierom must imply the conferring the power and authority whereby the bishop acted . for first , the first setting up of his power is by hierom attributed to this choice , as appears by his words . quod autem postea unus electus est qui caeteris praeponeretur , in schismatis remedium factum est , ne unusquisque ad se trahens christi ecclesiam rumperet . whereby it is evident hierom attributes the first original of that exsors potestas , as he calls it elsewhere in the bishop above presbyters , not to any apostolical institution , but to the free choice of the presbyters themselves : which doth fully explain what he means by consuetudo ecclesiae before spoken of , viz. that which came up by a voluntary act of the governours of churches themselves . secondly , it appears that by election , he means conferring authority , by the instances he brings to that purpose ; as the roman armies choosing their emperours , who had then no other power but what they received by the length of the sword ; and the deacons choosing their archdeacon , who had no other power but what was meerly con●erred by the choice of the co●ledge of deacons . to which we may add what eutychius , the patriarch of alexandria , saith in his origines ecclesiae alexandrinae published in arabick by our mo●● learned selden , who expresly affirms , that the twelve presbyters constituted by mark upon the vacancy of the see , did choose out of their number one to be head over the rest , and the other eleven did lay their hands upon him , and blessed him , and made him patriarch . neither is the authority of eutychius so much to be sleighted in this case , coming so near to hierom as he doth , who doubtless , had he told us that mark and anianus , &c. did all there without any presbyters , might have had the good fortune to have been quoted with as much frequency and authority as the anonymous author of the martyrdome of timothy in photius ( who there unhappily follows the story of the seven sleepers ) or the author of the apostolical constitutions , whose credit is everlastingly blasted by the excellent mr. duille de pseudepigraphis apostolorum ; so much doth mens interest●tend to the inhancing or abating the esteem and credit both of the dead and the living . by these we see , that where no positive restraints from consent and choice , for the unity and peace of the church , have restrained mens liberty as to their external exercise of the power of order or jurisdiction , every one being himself advanced into the authority of a church . governour , hath an internal power of conferring the same upon persons fit for it . to which purpose the laying on of the hands of the presbytery , is no wayes impertinently alledged , although we suppose st. paul to concur in the action , ( as it is most probable he did ) because , if the presbytery had nothing to do in the ordination , to what purpose were their hands laid upon him ? was it only to be witnesses of the fact , or to signifie their consent ? both those might have been done without their use of that ceremony ; which will scarce be instanced in , to be done by any but such as had power to confer what was signified by that ceremony . we come therefore to the second period or state of the church , when the former liberty was restrained , by some act of the church it self ▪ for preventing the inconveniences which might follow the too common use of the former liberty of ordinations , so antonius de rosellis fully expresseth my meaning in this ; quilibet presbyter & presbyteri ordinabant indiscretè , & schismata oriebantur . every presbyter and presbyters did ordain indifferently , and thence arose schisms : thence the liberty was restrained and reserved peculiarly to some persons who did act in the several presbyteries , as the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or prince of the sanhedrin , without whose presence no ordination by the church was to be looked on as regular . the main controversie is , when this restraint began , and by whose act ; whether by any act of the apostles , or only by the prudence of the church its self , as it was with the sanhedrin . but in order to our peace , i see no such necessity of deciding it , both parties granting that in the church such a restraint was laid upon the liberty of ordaining presbyters : and the exercise of that power may be restrained still , granting it to be radically and intrinsically in them . so that this controversie is not such as should divide the church . for those that are for ordinations only by a superiour order in the church , acknowledging a radical power for ordination in presbyters , which may be exercised in case of necessity , do thereby make it evident , that none who grant that , do think that any positive law of god hath forbidden presbyters the power of ordination ; for then it must be wholly unlawful , and so in case of necessity it cannot be valid . which doctrine i dare with some confidence assert to be a stranger to our church of england , as shall be largely made appear afterwards . on the other side , those who hold ordinations by presbyters lawful , do not therefore hold them necessary , but it being a matter of liberty , and not of necessity ( christ having no where said that none but presbyters shall ordain ) this power then may be restrained by those who have the care of the churches peace ; and matters of liberty being restrained , ought to be submitted to , in order to the churches peace . and therefore some have well observed the difference between the opinions of hierom and aerius . for as to the matter it self , i believe upon the strictest enquiry medina's judgement will prove true , that hierom , austin , ambrose , sedulius , primasius , chrysostome , theodores , theophylact , were all of aerius his judgement , as to the identity of both name and order of bishops and presbyters in the primitive church : but here lay the difference ▪ aerius from hence proceeded to separation from bishops and their churches , because they were bishops . and blondell well observes that the main ground why aerius was condemned , was for unnecessary separation from the church of sebastia , and those bishops too who agreed with him in other things , as eustathius the bishop did : whereas , had his meer opinion about bishops been the ground of his being condemned , there can be no reason assigned , why this heresie , if it were then thought so , was not mentioned either by socrates , theodoret ; sozomen , or evagrius , before whose time he lived ; when yet they mention the eustathiani , who were co-temporaries with him . but for epiphanius and augustine , who have listed him in the roul of hereticks , it either was for the other heretical opinions maintained by him , or they took the name heretick ( as it is evident they often did ) for one , who , upon a matter of different opinion from the present sense of the church , did proceed to make separation from the unity of the catholick church ; which i take to be the truest account of the reputed heresie of aerius . for otherwise it is likely that ierome , who maintained so great correspondency and familiarity with epiphanius , and thereby could not but know what was the cause why aerius was condemned for heresie , should himself run into the same heresie , and endeavour not only to assert it , but to avouch and maintain it against the judgement of the whole church ? ierome therefore was not ranked with aerius , because , though he held the same opinion as to bishops and presbyters , yet he was far from the consequence of aerius , that therefore all bishops were to be separated from ; nay , he was so far from thinking it necessary to cause a schism in the church , by separating from bishops , that his opinion is clear , that the first institution of them , was for preventing schisms , and therefore for peace and unity he thought their institution very useful in the church of god. and among all those fifteen testimonies produced by a learned writer ou● of ierome for the superiority of bishop● above presbyters , i cannot find one that doth found it upon any divine right , but only upon the conveniency of such an order for the peace and unity of the church of god : which is his meaning in that place most produced to this purpose ; ecclesiae salus in summi sacerdotis dignitate pendet , cui si non exsors quaedam & ab omnibus eminens detur potestas , tot in ecclesiis efficientur schismata , quot sacerdotes . where nothing can be more evident than that he would have some supereminent power attributed to the bishop for preventing schisms in the church . but granting some passages may have a more favourable aspect towards the superiority of bishops over presbyters in his other writings , i would fain know whether a mans judgment must be taken , from occasional and incidental passages , or from designed and set discourses ; which is as much as to ask , whether the lively representation of a man by picture , may be best taken , when in haste of other business he passeth by us , giving only a glance of his countenance , or when he purposely and designedly sits , in order to that end that his countenance may be truly represented ? besides , it is well known that hierom in his commentaries on scripture , ( where he doth not expresly declare his own opinion ) doth often transcribe what he finds in others , without setting down the name of any authour he had it from . for which we have his ingenuous confession in his epistle to augustine , itaque ut simpliciter fatear , legi haec omnia ( speaking of former commentaries ) & in mente mea plurima conservans ; accito notario , vel mea vel aliena dictavi , nec ordinis , nec verborum interdum , nec sensuum memor . a strange way of writing commentaries on scripture , wherein a man having jumbled other mens notions together in his brain , by a kind of lottery draws out what next comes to hand , without any choice : yet this we see was his practice , and therefore he puts austin to this hard task of examining what all other men had writ before him , and whether he had not transcribed out of them , before he would have him charge him with any thing which he finds in his commentaries . how angry then would that hasty adversary have been , if men had told him he had contradicted himself in what he writes on the forty fifth psalm about bishops , if it be compared with his commentaries on titus , where he professeth to declare his opinion , or his epistles to evagrius and oceanus ! but yet some thing is pleaded even from those places in hierom , wherein he declares his opinion more fully , as though his opinion was only , that christ himself did not appoint episcopacy , which ( they say ) he means by dominica dispositio , but that the apostles did it , which , in opposition to the former , he calls ecclesiae consuetudo , but elsewhere explains it by traditio apostolica ; and this they prove by two things ; first , the occasion of the institution of episcopacy , which is thus set down by him , antequam diaboli instinctu , studia in religione fierent , & diceretur in populis ; ego sum ▪ pauli , ego apollo , ego autem cephae , communi presbyterorum consilio ecclesiae guber ▪ nabantur . thence it is argued , that the time of this institution of bishops was when it was said at corinth , i am of paul , i of apollos , and i of cephas ; which was certainly in apostol cal times . but to this it is answered ; first , that it is impossible hieroms meaning should be restrained to that individual time , because the arguments which hierom brings that the name and office of bishops and presbyters were the same , were from things done after this time . pauls first epistle to the corinthians , wherein he reproves their schisms , was written according to ludovicus cappellus in the twe●fth year of claudius , of christ fifty one , after which paul writ his epistle to titus , from whose words hierom grounds his discourse ▪ but most certainly pauls epistle to the philippians was not written , till paul was prisoner at rome ; the time of the writing of it is placed by cappellus in the third of nero ; of christ . by blondell . by our lightfoot . by all , long after the former to the corinthians ; yet from the first verse of this epistle , hierom fetcheth one of his arguments . so pauls charge to the elders at miletus , peters epistle to the dispersed jews , were after that time too , yet from these are fetched two more of hieroms arguments . had he then so little common sense , as to say , that episcopacy was instituted upon the schism at corinth , and yet bring all his arguments for parity , after the time that he s●●s for the institution of episcopacy ? but secondly , hierom doth not say , cum diceretur apud corinthios , ego sum pauli , &c. but cum diceretur in populis , ego sum pauli , &c : so that he speaks not of that particular schism , but of a general and universal schism abroad among most people , which was the occasion of appointing bishops ; and so speaks of others imitating the schism and language of the corinthians . thirdly , had episcopacy been instituted on the occasion of the schism at corinth , certainly of all places , we should the soonest have heard of a bishop at corinth for the remedying of it ; and yet almost of all places , those heralds that derive the succession of bishops from the apostles times , are the most plunged , whom to fix on at corinth . and they that can find any one single bishop at corinth at the time when clemens writ his epistle to them ( about another schism as great as the former , which certainly had not been according to their opinion , if a bishop had been there before ) must have better eyes and judgement , than the deservedly admired grotius , who brings this in his epistle to bignonius as one argument of the undoubted antiquity of that epistle : quod nusquam meminit exsortis illius episcoporum auctoritatis , quae ecclesiae consuetudine , post marci mortem alexandriae , atque eo exemplo alibi , introduci coepit ; sed planè , ut paulus apostolus ostendit , ecclesias communi presbyterorum , qui iidem omnes & episcopi ipsi pauloque dicuntur consilio fuisse gubernatas . what could be said with greater freedom , that there was no such episcopacy then at corinth ? fourthly , they who use this argument , are greater strangers to st. ierom's language than they would seem to be : whose custome it is upon incidental occasions to accommodate the phrase and language of scripture to them : as when he speaks of chrysostom's fall , cecidit babylon , cecidit ; of the bishops of palestine , multi utroque claudicant pede ; of the roman clergy , pharisaeorum conclamavit senatus ; but which is most clear to our purpose , he applyes this very speech to the men of his own time ; quando non id ipsum omnes loquimur , & alius dicit , ego sum pauli , ego apollo , ego cephae , dividimus spiritûs unitatem , & eam in partes & membra discerpimus . all which instances are produced by blondell , but have the good fortune to be past over without being taken notice of . but supposing , say they , that it was not till after the schism at corinth , yet it must needs be done by the apostles ; else how could it be said to be toto orbe decretum , ut unus de presbyteris electus superponeretur caeteris ? quomodo enim ( saith a learned man ) fieri po●uit , ut toto hoc orbe decerneretur , nullo jam oecumenico concilio ad illud decernendum congrega●o , si non ab apostolis ipsis , fidem toto orbe promulgantibiss , & cum fide hanc regendi ecclesias formam constituentibus factum sit ? so that he conceives , so general an order could not be made , unless the apostles themselves at that time were the authors of it . but first , ieroms in toto orbe dicret●m est , relates not to an antecedent order , which was the ground of the institution of episcopacy , but to the universal establishment of that order which came up upon the occasion of so many schisms ; it is something therefore consequent upon the first setting up episcopacy , which is the general obtaining of it in the churches of christ , when they saw its usefulness in order to the churches peace ; therefore the emphasis lies not in decretum est , but in toto orbe ; noting how suddenly this order met with universal acceptance when it first was brought up in the church after the apostles death . which that it was ieroms meaning , appears by what he saith after , paulatim verò ( ut dissensionum plantaria evellerentur ) ad unum omnem solicitudinem esse delatam : where he notes the gradual obtaining of it : which i suppose was thus , according to his opinion ; first in the colledge of presbyters appointed by the apostles , there being a necessity of order , there was a president among them who had 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ as the president of the senate , i. e. did moderate the affairs of the assembly , by proposing matters to it , gathering voices , being the first in all matters of concernment , but he had not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as casaubon very well distinguisheth them , i. e. had no power over his fellow-presbyters , but that still resided in the colledge or body of them . after this when the apostles were taken out of the way , who kept the main power in their own hands of ruling the several presbyteries , or delegated some to do it ( who had a main hand in the planting churches with the apostles , and thence are called in scripture sometimes fellow-labourers in the lord , and sometimes evangelists , and by theodoret apostles , but of a second order ) after i say , these were deceased , and the main power left in the presbyteries , the several presbyters enjoying an equal power among themselves , especially being many in one city , thereby great occasion was given to many schisms , partly by the bandying of the presbyters one against another , partly by the sidings of the people with some against the rest , partly by the too common use of the power of ordinations in presbyters , by which they were more able to increase their own party , by ordaining those who would joyn with them , and by this means to perpetuate schisms in the church ; upon this , when the wiser and graver sort considered the abuses following the promiscuous use of this power of ordination ; and withall having in their minds the excellent frame of the government of the church under the apostles , and their deputies , and for preventing of future schisms and divisions among themselves , they unanimously agreed to choose one out of their number , who was best qualified for the management of so great a trust , and to devolve the exercise of the power of ordination and jurisdiction to him ▪ yet so as that he ●ct nothing of importance , without the consent and concurrence of the presbyters , who were still to be as the common council to the bishop . this i take to be the true and just account of the original of episcopacy in the primitive church according to ierome : which model of government thus contrived and framed , sets forth to us a most lively character of that great wisdom and moderation , which then ruled the heads and hearts of the primitive christians ; and which , when men have searched and studyed all other wayes , ( the abuses incident to this government , through the corruptions of men and times being retrenched ) will be found the most agreeable to the primitive form , both as asserting the due interest of the presbyteries , and allowing the due honour of episcopacy , and by the joynt harmony of both carrying on the affairs of the church with the greatest unity , concord , and peace . which form of government i cannot see how any possible reason can be produced by either party , why they may not with chearfulness embrace it . secondly , another evidence that ierome by decretum est did not mean an order of the apostles themselves , is by the words which follow the matter of the decree , viz. ut unus de presbyteris electus superponeretur caeteris , one chosen not only out of , but by the presbyters , should be set above the rest ; for so ierome must be understood ; for the apostles could not themselves choose out of all presbyteries one person to be set above the rest ; and withall the instance brought of the church of alexandria makes it evident to be meant of the choosing by the presbyters , and not by the apostles . besides , did ierome mean choosing by the apostles , he would have given some intimations of the hand the apostles had in it : which we see not in him the least ground for . and as for that pretence , that ecclesiae consuetudo is apostolica traditio , i have already made it appear that apostolica traditio in ierome , is nothing else but consuetudo ecclesiae , which i shall now confirm by a pregnant and unanswerable testimony out of ierome himself . unaquaeque provincia abundet in sensu suo , & praecepta majorum leges apostolicas arbitretur . let every province abound in its own sense , and account of the ordinances of their ancestors as of apostolical laws . nothing could have been spoken more fully to open to us what ierome means by apostolical traditions , viz the practice of the church in former ages , though not coming from the apostles themselves . thus we have once more cleared ierome and the truth together ; i only wish all that are of his judgement for the practice of the primitive church , were of his temper for the practice of their own ; and while they own not episcopacy as necessary by a divine right , yet ( being duly moderated , and joyned with presbyteries ) they may embrace it , as not only a lawful , but very useful constitution in the church of god. by which we may see what an excellent temper may be found out , most fully consonant to the primitive church for the management of ordinations , and church power , viz. by the presidency of the bishop and the concurrence of the presbyterie . for the top-gallant of episcopacy can never be so well managed for the right steering the ship of the church , as when it is joyned with the under-sails of a moderate presbyterie . so much shall suffice to speak here as to the power of ordination , which we have found to be derived from the synagogue , and the customes observed in it , transplanted into the church . there are yet some things remaining as to ordination , wherein the church did imitate the synagogue , which will admit of a quick dispatch , as the number of the persons , which under the synagogue were alwaies to be at least three . this being a fundamental constitution among the jews , as appears by their writings , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ordination of presbyters by laying on of hands must be done . by three at the least . to the same purpose maimonides 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they did not ordain any by imposition of hands into a power of judicature without the number of three . which number peter galatinus and postellus conceive necessary to be all ordained themselves ; but master selden thinks it was sufficient if there were but one of that number so ordained , who was to be as principal in the action ; whose opinion is favoured by maimonides , who adds to the words last cited out of him ; of which three , one at the least must be ordained himself . let us now see the parallel in the church of god. the first solemn ordination of elders under the gospel , which some think to be set down as a pattern for the church to follow , is that we read of , acts . , , . which was performed by three ; for we read in the first verse , that there were in the church at antioch , five prophets and teachers , barnabas , simeon , lucius , manaen , and saul ; of these five , the holy-ghost said , that two must be separated for the work whereto god had called them , which were , barnabas and saul ; there remain onely the other three , simeon , lucius and manaen to lay their hands on them , and ordain them to their work . accordingly those who tell us that iames was ordained bishop of ierusalem , do mention the three apostles who concurred in the ordaining of him . but most remarkable for this purpose is the canon of the nicene council , wherein this number is set down as the regular number for the ordination of bishops , without which it was not accounted canonical . the words are these , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. the ordination of a bishop should ; if possible , be performed by all the bishops of the province , which if it cannot easily be done , either through some urgent necessity , or the tediousness of the way , three bishops at least must be there for the doing it , which may be sufficient for the ordination , if those that are absent do express their consent , and by letters approve of the doing of it . to the same purpose theodoret , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the canons injoyn all the bishops of the province to be present at the ordination of one : and forbid the ordination of any without three being present at it . thus we see how the constitution of the synagogue was exactly observed in the church , as to the number of the persons concurring to a regular ordination . the last thing as to ordination bearing analogy to the synagogue , is the effect of this ordination upon the person : it was the custom of the jews , to speak of all that were legally ordained among them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the divine presence or schecinah rested upon them , which sometimes they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the holy spirit supposed to be in a peculiar manner present after this solemn separation of them from others in the world , and dedication of them unto god. answerable to this may that of our saviour be , when he gives his apostles authority to preach the gospel , he doth it in that form of words , receive ye the holy ghost , and then gives them the power of binding and loosing , usually conveyed in the jewish ordinations . whose sins ye remit , they are remitted ; and whose sins ye retain , they are retained . so that as under the law , they by their ordination received a moral faculty or right to exercise that power they were ordained to ; so under the gospel , all who are ordained according to gospel rules , have a right , authority and power conveyed thereby for the dispensing of the word and sacraments . which right and power must not be conceived to be an internal indelible character , as the papists groundlesly conceive , but a moral legal right , according to the lawes of christ , because the persons ordaining do not act in it in a natural , but a moral capacity , and so the effect must be moral and not physical , which they must suppose it to be , who make it a character , and that indelible . thus much may serve to clear how ordination in all its circumstances was derived from the jewish synagogue . the other thing remaining to be spoken to , as to the correspondence of the church with the synagogue in its constitution is , what order the apostles did settle in the several churches of their plantation for the ruling and ordering the affairs of them . before i come to speak so much to it as will be pertinent to our present purpose and design , we may take notice of the same name for church-rulers under the gospel , which there was under the synagogue , viz. that of presbyters . the name presbyter , as the hebr. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 though it originally import age , yet by way of connotation it hath been looked on as a name both of dignity and power . because wisdome was supposed to dwell with a multitude of years ; therefore persons of age and experience were commonly chosen to places of honour and trust , and thence the name importing age doth likewise cary dignity along with it . thence we read in the time of moses how often the elders were gathered together . thence eliezer is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gen. . . which the greek renders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the seignior domo , the chief officer in his house ; and so we read gen. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the elders of the land of egypt . so the elders of m●dian , the elders of israel , the elders of the cities ; so among the greeks 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for their council of state ; and among the latines senatus , and our saxon aldermen , in all importing both age and honour and power together . but among the jewes , in the times of the apostles , it is most evident that the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ imported not only dignity but power ; the presbyters among the jewes , having a power both of judgeing and teaching given them by their semicha or ordination . now under the gospel the apostles retaining the name and the manner of ordination , but not conferring that judiciary power by it , which was in use among the jewes , to shew the difference between the law and the gospel , it was requisite some other name should be given to the governours of the church , which should qualifie the importance of the word presbyters to a sense proper to a gospel state ; which was the original of giving the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the governours of the church under the gospel : a name importing duty more then honour , and not a title above presbyter , but rather used by way of diminution and qualification of the power implyed in the name of presbyter . therefore to shew what kind of power and duty the name presbyter imported in the church , the office conveyed by that name is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and presbyters are said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , pet. ▪ . where it is opposed to that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , lording it over the people , as was the custome of the presbyters among the jews . so that if we determine things by importance of words and things signified by them , the power of ordination was proper to the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because the former name did then import that power , and not the latter . we come therefore from the names to the things then implyed by them ; and the offices established by the apostles for the ruling of churches . but my design being not to dispute the arguments of either party ( viz. those who conceive the apostles setled the government of the church in an absolute parity ; or else by superiority and subordination among the setled officers of the church , ) but to lay down those principles which may equally concern both , in order to accommodation ▪ i find not my self at present concerned to debate what is brought on either side for the maintaining their particular opinion any further then thereby the apostles intentions are brought to have been to bind all future churches to observe that individual form they conceived was in practice then . all that ● have to say then concerning the course taken by the apostles in setling the government of the churches , ( under which will be contained the full resolution of what i promised , as to the correspondency to the synagogue in the government of churches ) lies in these three propositions , which i now shall endeavour to clear , viz. that neither can we have that certainty of apostolical practice which is necessary to constitute a divine right ; nor secondly , is it probable that the apostles did tye themselves up to any one fixed course in modelling churches ; nor thirdly , if they did , doth it necessarily follow that we must observe the same . if these three considerations be fully cleared , we may see to how little purpose it is to dispute the significancy and importance of words and names as used in scripture , which hitherto the main quarrel hath been about . i therefore begin with the first of these , that we cannot arrive to such an absolute certainty what course the apostles took in governing churches as to inferr from thence the only divine right of that one form which the several parties imagine comes the nearest to it . this i shall make out from these following arguments . first , from the equivalency of the names , and the doubtfulness of their signification from which the form of government used in the new testament should be determined . that the form of government must be derived from the importance of the names of bishop and presbyter , is hotly pleaded on both sides . but if there can be no certain way sound out whereby to come to a determination of what the certain sense of those names is in scripture , we are never like to come to any certain knowledge of the things signified by those names . now there is a fourfold equivalency of the names bishop and presbyter taken notice of . that both should signifie the same thing , viz. a presbyter , in the modern notion , i. e. one acting in a parity with others for the government of the church . and this sense is evidently asserted by theodoret , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the apostle acts . . philip. . . titus . . tim. . . doth by bishops mean nothing else but presbyters ; otherwise it were impossible for more bishops to govern one city . . that both of them should signifie promiscuously sometimes a bishop , and sometimes a presbyter : so chrysostome , and after him occumenius and theophylact in phil. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ and in acts . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . where they assert the community and promiscuous use of the names in scripture ; so that a bishop is sometimes called a presbyter , and a presbyter sometimes called a bishop . . that the name bishop , alwayes imports a singular bishop ; but the name presbyter is taken promiscuously both for bishop and presbyter . . that both the names bishop and presbyter , doe import onely one thing in scripture , viz. the office of a singular bishop in every church● ; which sense , though a stranger to antiquity , is above all other embraced by a late very learned man , who hath endeavoured by set discourses to reconcile all the places of scripture where the names occur to this sense ; but with what success it is not here a place to examine . by this variety of interpretation of the equivalency of the names of bishop and presbyter , we may see how far the argument from the promiscuous use of the names is from the controversie in hand ; unless some evident arguments be withall brought , that the equivalency of the words cannot possibly be meant in any other sense , then that which they contend for . equivocal words can never of themselves determine what sense they are to be taken in , because they are equivocal , and so admit of different senses . and he that from the use of an equivocal word would inferr the necessity onely of one sense , when the word is common to many , unless some other argument be brought inforcing that necessity , will be so far from perswading others to the same belief , that he will only betray the weakness and shortness of his own reason . when augustus would be called only princeps senatus , could any one inferr from thence , that certainly he was onely the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the senate , or else that he had superiority of power over the senate , when that title might be indifferent to either of those senses ? all that can be infer'd from the promiscuous sense of the words , is , that they may be understood only in this sense ; but it must be proved that they can be understood in no other sense , before any one particular form of government as necess●ry can be inferred from the use of them . if notwithstanding the promiscuous use of the name bishop and presbyter , either that presbyter may mean a bishop ; or that bishop may mean a presbyter , or be sometimes used for one , sometimes for the other ; what ground can there be laid in the equivalency of the words , which can inferr the only divine right of the form of government couched in any one of those senses ? so likewise , it is in the titles of angels of the churches ; if the name angel imports no incongruity , though taken only for the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the jewish synagogue , the publick minister of the synagogue , called the angel of the congregation , what power can be inferred from thence , any more then such an officer was invested with ? again , if the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or president of the assembly of presbyters , might be so called : what superiority can be deduced thence , any more then such a one enjoys ? nay , if in the prophetical style , an unity may be set down by way of representation of a multitude : what evidence can be brought from the name , that by it some one particular person must be understood ? and by this means timothy may avoid being charged with leaving his first love , which he must of necessity be , by those that make him the angel of the church of ephesus at the time of writing these epistles . neither is this any wayes solved by the answer given , that the name angel is representative of the whole church , and so there is no necessity , the angel should be personally guilty of it . for first , it seems strange that the whole diffusive body of the church should be charged with a crime by the name of the angel , and he that is particularly meant by that name should be free from it . as if a prince should charge the maior of a corporation as guilty of rebellion , and by it should only mean that the corporation was guilty , but the maior was innocent himself . secondly , if mady things in the epistles be directed to the angel , but yet so as to concern the whole body , then of necessity the angel must be taken as representative of the body ; and then , why may not the word angel be taken only by way of representation of the body its self , either of the whole church , or which is far more probable , of the consessus or order of presbyters in that church ? we see what miserably unconcluding arguments those are , which are brought for any form of government from metaphorical or ambiguous expressions , or names promiscuously used , which may be interpreted to different senses . what certainty then can any rational man find what the form of government was in the primitive times , when onely those arguments are used which may be equally accommodated to different forms ? and without such a certainty , with what confidence can men speak of a divine right of any one particular form ? secondly , the uncertainty of the primitive form is argued , from the places most in controversie about the form of government ; because that without any apparent incongruity they may be understood of either of the different forms . which i shall make out by going through the several places . the controversie then on foot is this , ( as it is of late stated ) , whether the churches in the primitive times were governed by a bishop only and deacons , or by a colledge of presbyters acting in a parity of power ? the places insisted on , on both sides are these , acts . . acts . . acts . tim. . . titus . . the thing in controversie , is , whether bishops with deacons or presbyters in a parity of power , are understood in these places ? i begin then in order with acts . . the first place wherein the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 occurrs , as applyed to the officers of the christian church , those that are for a colledge of presbyters , understand by these elders , those of the church of ierusalem , who did govern the affairs of that church : those that are for a solitary episcopacy , by these elders understand not the local elders of ierusalem , but the several bishops of the churches of iudea . let us now see whether there be any evidence from the place to determine which of these two must necessarily be understood . there is nothing at all mentioned in the place , but only that upon the occasion of the famine , they sent relief to the brethren of judea , and sent it to the elders by the hands of barnabas and paul ; which might either be to the elders of the church at ierusalem , to be distributed to the several churches of iudea , or else to the several pastors of those churches , either collectively as met together at ierusalem to receive this contribution , or distributively as they were in their several churches . the relief might be sent to all the brethren of iudea , and yet either be conveyed to the particular elders of ierusalem to send it abroad , or to the several elders of the churches within the circuit of iudea . but other places are brought by both parties for their particular sense in this , as acts . . here indeed mention is made of the apostles and elders together at ierusalem , but nothing expressed whereby we may know whether the fixed elders of that church , or else the elders of all the churches of iudea assembled upon this solemn occasion of the council of the apostles there . so acts . . when paul went in to iames , it is said , that all the elders were present . no more certainty here neither ; for , either they might be the fixed officers of that church , meeting with iames upon pauls coming ; or else they might be the elders of the several churches of iudea met together , not to take account of pauls ministry ( as some improbably conjecture , ) but assembled together there at the feast of pentecost , at which paul came to ierusalem , which is more probable upon the account of what we read , v. . of the many thousand believing iews then at jerusalem , who were zealous of the law : who in all probability were the believing jews of iudea , who did yet observe the annual festivals of ierusalem , and so most likely their several elders might go up together with them , and there be with iames at pauls coming in to him . no certainty then of the church of ierusalem how that was governed ; whether by apostles themselves , or other unfixed elders , or onely by iames who exercised his apostleship most there , and thence afterward● called the bishop of ierusalem . we proceed therefore to the government of other churches ; and the next place is , acts . . and when they had ordained them elders in every church . here some plead for a plurality of elders as fixed in every church ; but it is most evident , that the words hold true if there was but one in each church . for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 titus . . ( for both places will admit of the same answer ) doth signifie no more then oppidatim , or ecclesiatim , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gradatim , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , viritim , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 particulatim , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vicatim . no more then is imported than that elders were ordained , city by city , or church by church , as we would render i● , and thereby nothing is expressed , but that no church wanted an elder , but not that every church had more elders then one . but the place most controverted is , acts . . and from miletus , paul sent to ephesus , and called the elders of the church . those that say , these elders were those only of the church of ephesus , seem to be most favoured by the article 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as seeming to apply it to that particular church of ephesus , and by the syriack version which renders it , venire fecit presbyteros ecclesiae ephesi ; to the same purpose likewise hierome understands it . on the contrary those that say , that these elders were those of the several churches of asia , are favoured by v. . that from the first day he came into asia , he had been with them at all seasons . now paul did not remain all the time at ephesus , as appears by acts ▪ , , . where he is said to preach the word abroad in asia , and so in probability churches were planted , and rulers setled in them ; and that these were at this time called to miletus by paul , is the expresse affirmation of irenaeus ; in mileto enim convocatis episcopis & presbyteris qui era●t ab epheso & à reliquis proximis civitatibus , quoniam ipse festinavit hierosolymis pentecostem agere . here is nothing then either in the text or antiquity , that doth absolutely determine whence these elders came ; but there may be a probability on either side ; and so no certainty or necessity of understanding it either way . and so for the other places in timothy and titus , it is certain the care of those persons did extend to many places , and therefore the elders or bishops made by them , are not necessarily to be understood of a plurality of elders in one place . thus we see , that there is no incongruity in applying either of these two forms to the sense of the places in question . i dispute not which is the true , or at least more probable sense , but that we can find nothing in the several places which doth necessarily determine , how they are to be understood as to one particular form of government , which is the thing i now ayme at the proving of . and if neither form be repugnant to the sense of these places , how can any one be necessarily inferred from them ? as if the several motions and phaenomena of the heavens may be with equal probability explained according to the ptolemaick or copernican hypothesis , viz. about the rest or motion of the earth ; then it necessarily follows , that from those phaenomena no argument can be drawn evincing the necessity of the one hypothesis , and overturning the probability of the other . if that great wonder of nature the flux and reflux of the sea , might with equal congruity be solved according to the different opinions , of its being caused by subterraneous fires , or from the motion of the moon , or the depression of the lunar vortex , or ( which to me is far the most probable ) by a motion of consent of the sea with all the other great bodies of the world ; we should find no necessity at all of entertaining one opinion above another , but to look upon all as probable , and none as certain . so likewise for the composition and motion of all natural bodyes , the several hypotheses of the old and new philosophy , implying no apparent incongruity to nature , do make it appear that all or any of them , may be embraced as ingenious romances in philosophy ( as they are no more ) but that none of them are the certain truth ; or can be made appear so to be to the minds of men . so it is in controversies in theology , if the matter propounded to be believed , may as to the truth and substance of it be equally believed under different wayes of explication , then there is no necessity as to the believing the truth of the thing , to believe it under such an explication of it , more then under another . as for instance , in the case of christs descent 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , if i may truly believe that christ did descend 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whether by that we understand the state of the dead , or a local descent to hell , then there is no necessity in order to the belief of the substance of that article of the ancient creed ( called , the apostles ) under that restriction of a local descent . by this time i suppose it is clear , that if these places of scripture may be understood in these two different senses of the word elders , viz. either taken collectively in one city , or distributively in many , then there is no certainty which of these two senses must be embraced , and so the form of church-government , which must be thence derived , is left still at as great uncertainty as ever , notwithstanding these places of scripture brought to demonstrate it ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . thirdly , the uncertainty of the primitive form of government will be made appear from the defectivenesse , ambiguity , partiality and repugnancy of the records of the succeeding ages which should inform us what apostolical practice was . when men are by the force of the former arguments driven off from scripture , then they presently run to take sanctuary in the records of succeeding ages to the apostles . thus estius , no mean school-man , handling this very question of the difference of bishops and presbyters , very fairly quits the scriptures , and betakes himself to other weapons . quod autem jure divino sint episcopi presbyteris superiores , et si non ita clarum est è sacris literis , aliunde tamen satis efficaciter probari potest . ingenuously said , however ; but all the difficulty is , how a ius divinum should be proved when men leave the scriptures , which makes others so loth to leave this hold ; although they do it in effect , when they call in the help of succeeding ages to make the scripture speak plain for them . we follow therefore the scent of the game into this wood of antiquity , wherein it will be easier to lose our selves , then to find that which we are upon the pursuit of , a ius divinum of any one particular form of government . i handle now only the testimony of antiquity ( for the practice of it will call for a particular discourse afterwards ) and herein i shall endeavour to shew the incompetency of this testimony , as to the shewing what certain form of church-government was practised by the apostles ; for that , i shall make use of this four fold argument ; from the defectivenesse of this testimony , from the ambiguity of it , from the partiality of it , and from the repugnancy of it to its self . first , then , for the defectivenesse of the testimony of antiquity , in reference to the shewing what certain form the apostles observed in setling the government of churches ; a threefold defectivenesse i observe in it , as to places , as to times , as to persons . first , defectivenesse as to places ; for him that would be satisfied , what course the apostles took for governing churches , it would be very requisite to observe the uniformity of the apostles practice in all churches of their plantation . and if but one place varied , it were enough to overthrow the necessity of any one form of government , because thereby it would be evident , that they observed no certain or constant course , nor did they look upon themselves as obliged so to do . now the ground of the necessity of such an universal testimony as to places , is this ; we have already made it appear , that there is no law of christ absolutely commanding one form , and forbidding all other . we have no way then left to know , whether the apostles did look upon themselves as bound to settle one form , but by their practice ; this practice must be certain and uniform in them ; this uniformity must be made known to us by some unquestionable way : the scriptures they are very silent in it , mentioning very little more then pauls practice , nor that fully and clearly ; therefore we must gather it from antiquity , and the records of following ages ; if these now fall short of our expectation , and cannot give us an account of what was done by the apostles in their several churches planted by them , how is it possible we should attain any certainty of what the apostles practice was ? now that antiquity is so defective as to places , will appear from the general silence as to the churches planted by many of the apostles . granting the truth of what eusebius tells us , that thomas went into parthia , andrew into scythia , iohn into the lesser asia , peter to the jews in pontus , galatia , bithynia , cappadocia , asia ; besides what we read in scripture of paul , what a pittiful short account have we here given in , of all the apostles travels , and their several fellow-labourers ! and for all these , little or nothing spoke of the way they took in setling the churches by them planted , who is it will undertake to tell us what course andrew took in scythiae , in governing churches ? if we believe the records of after-ages , there was but one bishop , viz. of tomis for the whole countrey ; how different is this from the pretended course of paul , setting up a single bishop in every city ? where do we read of the presbyteries setled by thomas in parthia or the indies ? what course philip , bartholomew , matthew , simon zelotes , matthias took . might not they for any thing we know , settle another kind of government from what we read paul , peter , or iohn did , unlesse we had some evidence that they were all bound to observe the same ? nay , what evidence have we what course peter took in the churches of the circumcision ? whether he left them to their synagogue ▪ way , or altered it , and how or wherein ? these things should be made appear , to give men a certainty of the way and course the apostles did observe in the setling churches by them planted . but instead of this , we have a general silence in antiquity , and nothing but the forgeries of latter ages to supply the vacuity : whereby they filled up empty places as plutarch expresseth it , as geographers do maps with some fabulous creatures of their own invention . here is work now for a nicephorus callisthus , a simeon metaphrastes , the very iacobus de voragine of the greek church ( as one well calls him ) those historical tinkers , that think to mend a hole where they find it , and make three instead of it . this is the first defect in antiquity as to places . the second is as observable as to times ; and what is most considerable : antiquity is most defective where it is most useful , viz. in the time immediately after the apostles , which must have been most helpfull to us in this inquiry . for , who dare with confidence believe the conjectures of eusebius at three hundred years distance from apostolical times , when he hath no other testimony to vouch , but the hypotyposes of an uncertain clement ( certainly not he of alexandria , if ios. scaliger may be credited ) and the commentaries of hegesippus , whose relations and authority are as questionable as many of the reports of eusebius himself are in reference to those elder times : for which i need no other testimony but eusebius in a place enough of its self to blast the whole credit of antiquity , as to the matter now in debate . for speaking of paul and peter , and the churches by them planted , and coming to enquire after their successours , he makes this very ingenuous confession . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . say you so ? is it so hard a matter to find out who succeeded the apostles in the churches planted by them , unless it be those mentioned in the writings of paul ? what becomes then of our unquestionable line of succession of the bishops of several churches , and the large diagramms made of the apostolical churches with every ones name set down in his order , as if the writer had been clarenceaulx to the apostles themselves ? is it come to this at last that we have nothing certain , but what we have in scriptures ? and must then the tradition of the church be our rule to interpret scriptures by ? an excellent way to find out the truth doubtless , to bend the rule to the crooked stick , to make the judge stand to the opinion of his lacquey , what sentence he shall pass upon the cause in question ; to make scripture stand cap in hand to tradition , to know whether it may have leave to speak or no! are all the great outcries of apostolical tradition , of personal succession , of unquestionable records resolved at last into the scripture its self by him from whom all these long pedegrees are fetched ? then let succession know its place , and learn to vaile bonnet to the scriptures ? and withall let men take heed of over-●eaching themselves when they would bring down so large a catalogue of single bishops from the first and purest times of the church for it will be hard for others to believe them , when eusebius professeth it is so hard to find them . well might scaliger then complain that the intervall from the last chapter of the acts to the middle of trajan , in which time quadratus and ignatius began to flourish , was tempus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as varro speaks , a meer chaos of time filled up with the rude concept ons of papias , hermes , and others , who like hann ibal , when they could not find a way through , would make one either by force or fraud . but yet thirdly , here is another defect consequent to that of time , which is that of persons ; arising not onely from a defect of records , the diptychs of the church being lost , which would have acquainted us with the times of suffering of the severall martyrs ( by them called their natalitia ) at which times their several names were inrolled in these martyrologies , which some , as iunius observes , have ignorantly mistaken for the time of their being made bishops of the places wherein their names were entered , as anacletus , clytus and clemens at rome ; i say the defect as to persons , not only ariseth hence , but because the christians were so much harassed with persecutions , that they could not have that leisure then to write those things , which the leisure and peace of our ages have made us so eagerly inquisitive after . hence even the martyrologies are so full stuffed with fables , witness one for all , the famous legend of catharina who suffered , say they , in diocletian's time . and truly the story of ignatius ( as much as it is defended with his epistles ) doth not seem to be any of the most probable . for , wherefore should ignatius of all others be brought to rome to suffer , when the proconsuls and the praesides provinciarum did every where in time of persecution execute their power in punishing christians at their own tribunals , without sending them so long a journey to rome to be martyred there ? and how came ignatius to make so many and such strange excursions , as he did by the story , if the souldiers that were his guard were so cruel to him , as he complains they were ? now all those uncertain and fabulous narrations as to persons then , arising from want of sufficient records made at those times , make it more evident how incompetent a judge antiquity is as to the certainty of things done in apostolical times . if we should onely speak of the fabulous legends of the first planters of churches in these western parts , we need no further evidence of the great defect of antiquity as to persons . not to goe out of our own nation ; whence come the stories of peter , iames , paul , simon , aristobulus , besides ioseph of arimathea , and his company ; all being preachers of the gospel , and planters of churches here , but onely from the great defect in antiquity , as to the records of persons imployed in the several places for preaching the gospell ? thus much to shew the defectiveness as to the records of antiquity , and thereby the incompetency of them for being a way to find out the certain course the apostles took in setling and governing churches by them planted . the next thing shewing the incompetency of the records of the church for deciding the certain form of church-government in the apostles times , is , the ambiguity of the testimony given by those records . a testimony sufficient todecide a controversie , must be plain and evident , and must speak full and home to the case under debate . now if i make it appear that antiquity doth not so ; nothing then can be evident from thence , but that we are left to as great uncertainties as before . the matter in controversie is , whether any in a superiour order to presbyters were instituted by the apostles themselves for the regulating of the churches by them planted ? for the proving of which , three things are the most insisted on : first , the personal succession of some persons to the apostles in churches by them planted : secondly , the appropriating the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to bishops in a superiour order to presbyters , after the apostles decease : thirdly , the churches owning the order of episcopacy , as of divine institution . if now we can make these three things evident : first , that personall succession might be without such superiority of order : secondly , that the names of bishop and presbyters were common after the distinction between them was introduced : and thirdly , that the church did not own episcopacy as a divine institution , but ecclesiasticall ; and those who seem to speak most of it , do mean no more : i shall suppose enough done to invalidate the testimony of antiquity as to the matter in hand . first , then for the matter of succession in apostolical churches ▪ i shall lay down these four things , to evince that the argument drawn from thence , cannot fully clear the certain course which the apostles took in setling the government of churches . first , that the succession might be onely as to different degree , and not as to a different order ; where the succession is clear , nothing possibly can be inferred from it beyond this . for bare succession implies no more then that there was one in those churches succeeding the apostles , from whom afterwards the succession was derived . now then supposing onely at present , that it was the custome , in all the churches at that time to be ruled by a colledge of presbyters acting in a parity of power , and among these , one to sit as the nasi in the sanhedrin , having a priority of order above the rest in place , without any superiory of power over his colleagues ; will not the matter of succession be clear and evident enough notwithstanding this ? succession of persons was the thing inquired for , and not a succession of power ; if therefore those that would prove a succession of apostolical power , can onely produce a list and catalogue ▪ of names in apostolical churches , without any evidence of what power they had , they apparently fail of proving the thing in question , which is not , whether there might not be found out a list of persons in many churches derived from the apostles times ; but whether those persons did enjoy by way of peculiarity and appropriation to themselves , that power which the apostles had over many churches while they lived ? now this , the meer succession will never prove which will best appear by some parallel instances . at athens , after they grew weary of their ten yeares 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; the people chose nine every year to govern the affairs of the common-wealth : these nine enjoyed a parity of power among themselves , and therefore had a place where they consulted together about the matters of state which was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as * demosthenes , plutarch , and others tell us : now although they enjoyed this equality of power , yet one of them had greater dignity then the rest , and therefore was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by way of excellency , and his name was onely set in the publike records of that year , and therefore was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the year was reckoned from him , as * pausanias , and iulius pollux inform us . here we see now the sccession clear in one single person and yet no superiority of power in him over his colleagues the like may be observed among the ephori and bidiaej at sparta ; the number of the ephori was alwayes five from their first institution by lycurgus , and not nine ( as the greek etymologist imagines ) : these enjoyed likewise a parity of power among them ; but among these to give name to the year , they made choice of one who was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here too , ●s the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 at athens , and him they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as plutarch tells us . where we have the very name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 attributed to him that had only his primacy of order without any superiority of power , which is used by iustin martyr of the president of assemblies among the christians . now from hence we may evidently see that meer succession of some single persons named above the rest , in the successions in apostolicall churches , cannot inforce any superiority of power in the persons so named , above others supposed to be as joynt ▪ governours of the churches with them . i dispute not whether it were so or no ; whether according to blondel the succession was from the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or whether by choice , as at alexandria ; but i onely now shew that this argument from succession is weak , and proves not at all the certainty of the power those persons enjoyed . secondly ▪ this succession is not so evident and convincing in all places as it ought to be , to demonstrate the thing intended . it is not enough to shew a list of some persons in the great churches of ierusalem , antioch , rome , and alexandria , ( although none of these be unquestionable ) but it should be produced at philippi , corinth , caesarea , and in all the seven churches of asia ( and not onely at ephesus ) and so likewise in creet , some succeeding titus ; and not think men will be satisfied with the naming a bishop of gortyna so long after him . but , as i said before , in none of the churches most spoken of is the succession so clear as is necessary . for at ierusalem it seems somewhat strange how fifteen bishops of the circumcision should be crouded into so narrow a room as they are ; so that many of them could not have above two years time to rule in the church . and it would bear an inquiry where the seat of the bishops of ierusalem was from the time of the destruction of the city by titus , when the walls were laid even wih the ground by musonius ) till the time of adrian ; for till that time the succession of the bishops of the circumcision continued . for antioch , it is far from being agreed , whether evodius or ignatius succeeded peter , or paul ; or the one peter , and the other paul ; much less at rome , whether cletus , anacletus , or clemens are to be reckoned first ; ( but of these afterwards ) . at alexandria where the succession runs clearest , the originall of the power is imputedito the choice of presbyters , and to no divine institution . but at ephesus the succession of bishops from timothy is pleaded with the greatest confidence ; and the testimony brought for it , is from leontius bishop of magnesia in the council of chalcedon , whose words are these , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from timothy to this day there hath been a succession of seven and twenty bishops , all of them ordained in ephesus . i shall not insist so much on the incompetency of this single witness to pass a judgement upon a thing of that nature , at the distance of four hundred years , in which time records being lost , and bishops being after settled there , no doubt they would begin their account from timothy , because of his imployment there once for setling the churches thereabout . and to that end we may observe that in the after-times of the church , they never met with any of the apostles , or evangelists in any place , but they presently made them bishops of that place . so , philip is made bishop of trallis , ananias bishop of damascus , nicolaus bishop of samaria , barnabas bishop of milan , silas bishop of corinth , sylvanus of thessalonica , crescens of chalcedon , andreas of byzantium ▪ and upon the same grounds peter bishop of rome . no wonder then if leontius make timothy bishop of ephesus , and derive the succession down from him . but again , this was not an act of the council its self , but onely of one single person delivering his private opinion in it ; and that which is most observable , is , that in the thing mainly insisted on by leontius , he was contradicted in the face of the whole council , by philip a presbyter of constantinople . for the case of b●ssianus and stephen , about their violent intrusion into the bishoprick of ephesus , being discussed before the council ; a question was propounded by the council where the bishop of ephesus was to be regularly ordained , according to the canons . leontius bishop of magnesia saith , that there had been twenty seven bishops of ephesus from timothy , and all of them ordained in the place . his business was not to derive exactly the succession of bishops , but speaking according to vulgar tradition , he insists that all had been ordained there . now if he be convicted of the crimen falsi in his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , no wonder if we meet with a mistake in his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. if he were out in his allegation , no wonder if he were deceived in his tradition . now as to the ordination of the bishops in ephesus , philip , a presbyter of constantinople , convicts him of falsehood in that ; for , saith he , iohn bishop of constantinople going into asia , deposed fifteen bishops there , and ordained others in their room . and aetius archdeacon of constantinople instanceth in castinus , heraclides , basilius bishop of ephesus , all ordained by the bishop of constantinople . if then the certainty of succession relyes upon the credit of this leontius , let them thank the council of chalcedon , who have sufficiently blasted it , by determining the cause against him in the main evidence produced by him . so much to shew how far the clearest evidence for succession of bishops from apostolical times is from being convincing to any rationall man. thirdly , the succession so much pleaded by the writers of the primitive church , was not a succession of persons in apostolicall power , but a succession in apostolical doctrine ; which will be seen by a view of the places produced to that purpose . the first is that of irenaeus . quoniam valdè longum est in hoc tali volumine omnium ecclesiarum enumerare successiones , maximae & antiquissimae , & omnibus cognitae à gloriossimis duobus apostolis petro & paulo , romae fundatae & constitutae ecclesiae , eam quam habet ab apostolis traditionem , & annunciatam hominibus fidem , per successiones episcoporum perveni●n●es usque ad nos . indicantes , confundimus omnes eos , &c. where we see irenaeus doth the least of all aim at the making out of a succession of apostolical power in the bishops he speaks of , but a conveying of the doctrine of the apostles down to them by their hands : ( which doctrine is here called tradition , not as that word is abused by the papists to signifie something distinct from the scriptures , but as it signifies the conveyance of the doctrine of the scripture it self . ) which is cleared by the beginning of that chapter . traditionem itaque apostolorum in toto mundo manifestatam in ecclesia adest perspic ●re omnibus qui vera v●lint audire ; & habemus annumerare eos qui ab apostolis instituti sunt episcopi in ecclesiis , & successores eorum usque ad nos qui nihil tale docuerunt n●que cognoverunt , quale ab his deliratur . his plain meaning is , that those persons who were appointed by the apostles to oversee and govern churches , being sufficient witnesses themselves of the apostles doctrine , have conveyed it down to us by their successours , and we cannot learn any such thing of them , as valentinus and his followers broached . we see it is the doctrine still he speaks of , and not a word what power and superiority these bishops had over presbyters in their several churches . to the same purpose tertullian in that known speech of his ; edant origines ecclesiarum suarum , evolvant ordinem episcoporum suorum , ita per successiones ab initio decurrentem , ut primu● ille episcopus aliquem ex apostolis aut apostolicis viris habuerit authorem & antecessorem . hoc modo ecclesiae apostolicae census suos deferunt ; sicut smyrnaeorum ecclesia habens polycarpum à johanne conlocatum refert , sicut romanorum clementem à petro ordinatum edit ; proinde utique & caeterae exhibent , quos ab apostolis in episcopatum constitutos apostolici seminis traduces habeant . a succession i grant is proved in apostolical churches by these words of tertullian , and this succession of persons , and those persons bishops too ▪ but then it is only said that these persons derived their office from the apostles , but nothing expressed what relation they had to the church any more then is implyed in the general name of episcopi ; nor what power they had over presbyters : only that there were such persons , was sufficient to his purpose , which was to prescribe against heretickes , i. e. to non-suit them , or to give in general reasons why they were not to be proceeded with as to the particular debate of the things in question between them . for praescribere in the civil law ( whence tertullian transplanted that word as many other into the church ) is , cum quis adversarium certis exceptionibus removet à lite contestandâ , ita ut de summa rei neget agendum , eamve causam ex juris praescripto judicandā : three sorts of these prescriptions tertullian elsewere mentions ; hoc exigere veritatem cui nemo praescribere potest , non spatium temporum , non patrocinia personarum , non privilegium regionum . here he stands upon the first which is a prescription of time , because the doctrine which was contrary to that of the hereticks was delivered by the apostles , and conveyed down by their successors , which was requisite to be shewed in order to the making his prescription good . which he thus further explains ; age jam qui voles curiositatem melius exercere in negotio salutis tuae ; percurre ecclesias apostolicas , apud quas ipsae adhuc cathedrae apostolorum suis locis praesidentur , apud quas ▪ ipsae authenticae eorum literae recitantur , sonantes vocem & praesentantes faciem uniuscujusque . proximè est tibi achaia ? habes corinthum . si non longe es à macedonia , habes philippos , habes thessalonicenses . si potes in asiam tendere , habes ephesum . s● autem italiae adjaces , habes romam , unde nobis quoque auctoritas praestò est . what he spoke before of the persons , he now speaks of the churches themselves planted by the apostles , which by retaining the authentick epistles of the apostles sent to them , did thereby sufficiently prescribe to all the novell opinions of the hereticks . we see then evidently that it is the doctrine which they speak of as to succession , and the persons no further then as they are the conveyers of that doctrine ; either then it must be proved that a succession of some persons in apostolical power is necessary for the conveying of this doctrine to men , or no argument at all can be inferred from hence for their succeeding the apostles in their power , because they are said to convey down the apostolical doctrine to succeeding ages . which is austins meaning in that speech of his , radix christianae societatis per sedes apostolorum & successiones episcoporum , certa per orbem propagatione diffunditur ▪ the root of christian society , ( i. e. the doctrine of the gospel ) is spread abroad the world through the channels of the apostolical sees , and the continued successions of bishops therein . and yet if we may believe the same austin , secundum honorum vocabula quae jam ecclesiae usus obtinuit , episcopatus presbyterio major est . the difference between episcopacy and presbyterie rise from the custome of the church , attributing a name of greater honour to those it had set above others . and as for tertullian , i believe neither party will stand to his judgement as to the original of church power : for he saith expresly , differenti●m inter ordinem & plebem constituit ecclesia auctoritas ; all the difference between ministers and people comes from the churches authority ; unless he mean something more by the following words , & honor per ordinis concessum sanctificatus à deo , viz. that the honour which is received by ordination from the bench of church-officers , is sanctified by god , i. e. by his appointment as well as blessing . for otherwise i know not how to understand him . but however , we see here he makes the government of the church to lye in a concessus ordinis , which i know not otherwise to render , than by a bench of presbyters ▪ because only they were said in ordinem cooptari , who were made presbyters , and not those who were promoted to any higher degree in the church . by the way we may observe the original of the name of holy orders in the church , not as the papists , and others following them , as though it noted any thing inherent by way of ( i know not what ) character in the person ; but because the persons ordained were thereby admitted in ordinem among the number of church-officers . so there was ordo senatorum , ordo equestris , ordo decurionum , and ordo sacerdotum among the romans , as in this inscription . ordo sacerdot . dei herculis invicti . from hence the use of the word came into the church ; and thence ordination , ex vi vocis , imports no more than solemn admission into this order of presbyters ; and therefore it is observable , that laying on of hands never made men priests under the law , but only admitted them into publike office. so much for tertullians concessus ordinis , which hath thus f●r drawn us ▪ out of our way , but we now return . and therefore fourthly , this personal suceession so much spoken of , ●● sometimes attributed to presbyters , even after the distinction came into use between bishops and them . and that even by those authors who before had told us the succession was by bishops , as irenaeus . cum autem ad eam iterum traditionem , qu● est ab apostolis , qu● per successiones presbyterorum in ecclesiis custoditur , provocamus eos qui adversantur traditioni ; dicent , se non solum presbyteris sed etiam apostolis existentes sapientiores , &c. here he attributes the keeping of the pradition of apostolical doctrine to the succession of presbyters , which before he had done to bishops . and more fully afterwards , quapropter iis qui in ecclesiâ sunt presbyteris obaudire oportet , his qui successionem habent ab apostolis , sicut ostendimus , qui cum episcopatus successione , charisma veritatis certum secundum placitum patris acceperunt . in this place he not only asserts the succession of presbyters to the apostles , but likewise attributes the successio episcopatus to these very presbyters . what strange confusion must this raise in any ones mind , that seeks for a succession of episcopal power above presbyters from the apostles , by the testimony of irenaeus , when he so plainly attributes both the succession to presbyters , and the episcopacy too , which he speaks of ? and in the next chapter adds , tales presbyteros nutrit ecclesia , de quibus & propheta ait , & dabo principes tuos in pace , & episcopos tuos in justitiâ . did irenaeus think that bishops in a superiour order to presbyters were derived by an immediate succession from the apostles , and yet call the presbyters by the name of bishops ? it is said , indeed that in the apostles times the names , bishop and presbyter were comman , although the office was distinct , but that was only during the apostles life , say some , when after the name bishop was appropriated to that order that was in the apostles ( so called before ) ; but , say others , it was only till subject presbyters was constituted , and then grew the difference between the names . but neither of these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 can draw forth the difficulty in these places of irenaeus ; for now both the apostles were dead , and subject presbyters certainly in some of these apostolical churches were then constituted , whence comes then the community of names still , that those who are said to succeed the apostles , are called bishops in one place , but presbyters in another , and the very succession of episcopacy attributed to presbyters ? can we then possibly conceive that these testimonies of irenaeus can determine the point of succession , so as to make clear to us what that power was which those persons enjoyed , whom he sometimes calls bishops , and sometimes presbyters . but it is not irenaeus alone ; who tells us that presbyters succeed the apostles ; even cyprian who pleads so much for obedience to the bishops as they were then constituted in the church , yet speaks often of his compresbyteri ▪ and in his epistles to florentius pupianus , who had reproached him , speaking of those words of christ , he that heareth you , heareth me , &c. qui dicit ad apostoles , a● per hoc ad omnes praepositos qui apostolis vicariâ ordinatione succedunt ▪ where he attr●butes apostolical succession to all that were praepositi , which name implies not the relation to presbyters as over them , but to the people , and is therefore common both to bishops and presbyters ; * for so afterwards he speaks , nec fraternitas habuerit episcopum , nec pl●bs praepositum , &c. ierome saith , that presbyters are loco apostolorum , and that they do apostolico gradui succeders ; and the so much magnified ignatius , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that the presbyters succeeded in the place of the bench of apostles ; and elsewhere of sotion the deacon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as it is read in the florentine copy set out by vossius ; but in the former editions , both by vedelius and the most learned primate of armagh it is read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but that of vossius seems to be the true reading , to which the old latin version in bishop usher fully agrees ; quoniam subjectus est episcopo ut grati● dei , & presbyterio ut legi jesu christi . it might be no improbable conjecture to guess from hence at ignatius his opinion concerning the original both of episcopacy and presbyterie . the former he looks on as an excellent gift of god to the church ; so a learned doctor paraphraseth grati● dei , i. e. dono à deo ecclesiae ●ndulto ; so cyprian often divina dignatione , speaking of bishops ; i. e. that they looked on it as an act of gods special favour to the church to find out that means for unity in the church , to pitch upon one among the presbyters who should have the chief rule in every particular church ▪ but then for presbyterie , he looks on that as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an institution and law of iesus christ , which must on that account alwayes continue in the church . and ●o sotion did commendably in submitting to the bishop as a favour of god to the church for preventing schism● ▪ on which account it is , and not upon the account of divine institution , that ignatius is so earnest in requiring obedience to the bishop , because , as cyprian faith , ecclesia est plebs episcopo coad●nata , & grex pastori adhaerens ▪ and the bishops then being orthodox , he layes such a charge upon the people to adher● to them , ( for it is to the people , and not to the presbyters he speaks most ) which was as much as to bid them hold to the unity of the faith , and avoid those pernicious heresies which were then abroad ; and so ignatius and ierome may easily be reconciled to one another ; both owning the council of presbyters as of divine institution , and both requiring obedience to bishops as a singular priviledge granted to the church , for preventing schisms , and preserving unity in the faith. and in all those thirty five testimonies produced out of ignatius his epistles for episcopacy , i can meet but with one which is brought to prove the least femblance of an institution of christ for episcopacy ▪ and if i be not much deceived , the sense of that place is clearly mistaken too . the place is ep. ad ephesios ; he is exhorting the ephesians 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ which i suppose may be rendred to fulfill the will of god ; so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies apocalyps . . . and adds 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . he begins to exhort them to concur with the will of god , and concludes his exhortation to concur with the will or counsel of the bishop ; and in the middle he shews the ground of the connexion of these two together ; for christ , saith he , who is our inseparable life is the counsel of the father : and the bishops who are scattered abroad to the ends of the earth , are the counsel of iesus christ , i. e. do concur with the will of christ ; therefore follow the counsel of your bishop , which also you do . every thing is plain and obvious in the sense here , and very coherent to the expressions both before and after ; only the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must be left out as plainly redundant , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must not be rendred determinati , but rather disterminati , because it refers to a place here , and so it notes their being dispersed into several places , and separated from one another , thereby implying the unity of their faith , and the coagulum fidei , notwithstanding their distance from one another as to place in the world , which in cyprians words is , ecclesiae universae per totum mundum unitatis vinculo copulatae . and certainly a stronger argument then this could not have been given for the ephesians chearfull obedience to their bishop ( which is the thing beaims at ) then the universal consent of all the bishops in the christian world in the unity of the faith of christ ; so that as christ is the will and counsel of the father , because of that harmony and consent which is between their wills ; so the bishops are the will and counsel of christ , as chearfully uniting in the profession of his faith. so that we see ignatius himself cannot give a doubting mind satisfaction of the divine institution of bishops , when in the only place brought to that purpose , his sense is quite different from what it is brought for . so that the records of the church are far from deciding this controversie as to the certainty of the form of government instituted by christ , because of the ambiguity of those records as to the point of succession to the apostles ▪ in that this succession might be only of a different degree , in that it is not clear and convincing in all places : in that where it is clearest , it is meant of a succession of doctrine , and not of persons ; in that if it were of persons , yet presbyters are said to succeed the apostles as well as bishops , by the same persons who speak of these . by which last thing we have likewise cleared the second thing propounded , to shew the ambiguity of the testimony of antiquity , which was the promiscuous use of the names of bishop and presbyters , after the distinction between their office was brought in by the church . for we have made it appear that the names are promiscuously used , when that succession which is sometimes attributed to bishops , is at other times given to presbyters . other instances might be brought of that nature ▪ as , first , that of clemens romanus in his excellent epist●e , which like the river alp●eus had run under ground for so many centuries of years ▪ but hath now in these last times of the world appeared publikely to the view of the world , to make it appear how true that is which he saith the apostles did foresee , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that there would be great contentions about the name of episcopacy ▪ and so there are still and that from his epistle too . for when in one place he tells us that the apostles ordained their first fruits to be bishops and deacons , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of those that should believe : afterwards he makes no scruple of calling those bishops presbyters in several places , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. and speaking of the present schism at corinth , he saith , it was a most shamefull thing and unworthy of christians , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . to hear the firm and ancient church of corinth , for the sake of one or two persons to raise a sedition against the presbyters ▪ and afterwards , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; only l●t the flock of christ enjoy its peace with the presbyters which are set over it . but because this is said to be spoken before the time of distinction between bishops and presbyters , it being supposed that there were no subject presbyters then ( although no reason can be assigned why the apostles should ordain bishops 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of those that should believe , and should not likewise ordain presbyters for them ) yet to take away all scruple , we shall go farther ; when subject presbyters , as they are called , are acknowledged to be , and yet bishops are call'd presbyters then too ▪ for which we have the clear testimony of the martyrs of the gallican church in their epistle to eleutherius bishop of rome , who call irenaeus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when as blondell observes he had been nine years bishop of lyons in the place of pothinus ; neither doth blondels argument lye here , that because they call him the presbyter of the church , therefore he was no bishop , as his antagonist supposeth ; but he freely acknowledgeth him to have succeeded pothinus there in his bishoprick ; but because after the difference arose between bishop and presbyters , yet they called him by the name of presbyter , it seems very improbable that when they were commending one to the bishop of another church , they should make use of the lowest name of honour then appropriated to subject presbyters , which instead of commending , were a great debasing of him , if they had looked on a superiour order above those presbyters , as of divine institution , and thought there had been so great a distance between a bishop and subject presbyters , as we are made to believe there was . which is , as if the master of a colledge in one university should be sent by the fellows of his society to the heads of the other , and should in his commendatory letters to them , be styled a senior fellow of that house ▪ would not any one that read this , imagine that there was no difference between a senior fellow and a master , but only a primacy of order , that he was the first of the number without any power over the rest ? this was the case of irenaeus : he is supposed to be bishop of the church of lyons ; he is sent by the church of lyons on a message to the bishop of rome ; when notwithstanding his being bishop they call him presbyter of that church , ( when there were other presbyters who were not bishops , ) what could any one imagine by the reading of it , but that the bishop was nothing else but the seniour presbyter , or one that had a primacy of order among , but no divine right to a power of jurisdiction over his fellow presbyters ? more instances of this nature are brought there by that learned author , which the reader may compare with the answers , and then let him judge whether the testimony of antiquity have not too much ambiguity in it to decide the controversie clearly on either side . but that which seems yet more material , is , that which we observed in the third place , that those who acknowledge the superiority of bishops over presbyters , do impute it to an act of the church , and not ascribe it to any divine institution . the testimony of ierome to this purpose is well known , and hath been produced already ; that of the counterfeit ambiose , but true hilary , is in every ones mouth upon this controversie ; quia primum presbyteri episcopi appellabantur , ut recedente uno sequensti succederet ; sed quia coeperunt sequentes presbyteri indigni inveniri ad primatus tenendos , immutata est ratio , prospiciente co●cilio , ut non ordo , sed meritum crearet episcopum multorum sacerdotum judicio constitutum , ne indignus temer● usurparet & esset multis scandalum ▪ very strange that an opinion so directly contrary to the divine right of episcop●cy should be published by a deacon of the church of rome , and these commentaries cited by austin , with applause of the person , without stigmatizing him for a heretick with aerius , if it had been the opinion of the church , that bishops in their power over presbyters did succeed the apostles by a divine right . nothing more clear , then that he asserts all the difference between a bishop , and presbyters to arise from an act of the church choosing men for their deserts , when before they succeeded in order of place ; it is a mistake of blundels , to attribute this to the nicene council ; doub less he means no more then that hierom calls concilium presbyterorum , or which he himself means by judicium sacerdotum . the testimony of austin hath been already mentioned . secundum honorum vocabula quae jam ecclesiae usus obtinuit , episcopatus presbyterio major est . thereby implying it was not so alwayes : else to what purpose serves that jam obtinuit , and that the original of the difference was from the church ? but more express and full is isidore himself the bishop of sevill in spain speaking of presbyters . his sicut episcopis dispensatio mysteriorum dei commissa est ; praesunt eni● ecclesiis christi , & in confectione corporis & sanguinis consortes cum episcopis sunt ; similiter & in doctrina populi & in officio praedicandi , sed sola propter auctoritatem summo sacerdoti clericorum ordinatio reservata est , ne à multis ecclesiae disciplina vindicatae , concordiam solueret , scandala generaret . what could be spoken more to our purpose then this is ? he asserts the identity of power as well as name , in both bishops and presbyters in governing the church , in celebrating the eucharist , in the office of preaching to the people , onely for the greater honour of the bishop , and for preventing schisms in the church , the power of ordination was reserved to the bishop ; by those words propter auctoritatem , he cannot possibly mean the authority of a divine command , for that his following words contradict , that it was to prevent schisms and scandals , and after produceth the whole place of ierome to that purpose . agreeable to this , is the judgment of the second council of sevil in spain , upon the occasion of the irregular proceeding of some presbyters ordained by agapius bishop of corduba . their words are these : nam quamvis cum episcopis plurima illis ministeriorum communis sit dispensatio , quaedam novellis & ecclesiasticis regulis sibi prohibita noverint , sicut presbyterororum & diaconorum & virginum consecratio ▪ &c. haec enim omnia illicita esse presbyteris , quia pontificatus apicem non habent , quem solis deberi episcopis authoritate canonum praecipitur : ut per hoc & discretio graduum , & dignitatis fastigium summi pontificis demonstretur . how much are we beholding to the ingenuity of a spanish council , that doth so plainly disavow the pretence of any divine right to the episcopacy by them so strenuously asserted ? all the right they plead for , is from the novellae & ecclesiasticae regula , which import quite another thing from divine institution ; and he that hath not learnt to distinguish between the authority of the canons of the church , and that of the scriptures , will hardly ever understand the matter under debate with us : and certainly it is another thing to preserve the honour of the different degrees of the clergy , but especially of the chief among them , viz. the bishop , than to observe a thing meerly out of obedience to the command of christ ; and upon the account of divine institution . that which is rejoyned in answer to these testimonies , as far as i can learn , is onely this , that the council and isidore followed jerome , and so all make up but one single testimony . but might it not as well be said , that all that are for episcopacy did follow ignatius or epiphanius , and so all those did make up but one single testimony on the other side ? ye● i do as yet despair of finding any one single testimony in all antiquity , which doth in plain terms assert episcopacy , as it was setled by the practice of the primitive church in the ages following the apostles , to be of an unalterable divine right . some expressions i grant in some of them seem to extoll episcopacy very high ; but then it is in order to the peace and unity of the church , and in that sense they may sometimes be admitted to call it divine and apostolical , not in regard of its institution , but of its end , in that it did in their opinion tend as much to preserve the unity of the church , as the apostles power did over the churches while they were living . if any shall meet with expressions seeming to carry the fountain of episcopal power higher , let them remember to distinguish between the power it self , and the restrained exercise of that power ; the former was from the apostles , but common to all dispensers of the word ; the latter was appropriated to some , but by an act of the church , whereby an eminency of power was attributed to one , for the safety of the whole . and withall let them consider , that every hyperbolical expression of a father will not bear the weight of an argument : and how common it was to call things divine , which were conceived to be of excellent use , or did come from persons in authority in the church . one would think that should meet with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the acts of the council of chalcedon , it could be rendred by nothing short of the scriptures : whereas they mean no more by it , but onely the emperours letters to the council . it hath been already observed how ready they were to call any custome of the church before their times an apostolical tradition . and as the heathens when they had any thing which they knew not whence it came , they usually called it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as though it came immediately from heaven ; so the fathers when traditions were convey'd to them without the names of the authors , they conclude they could have no other fountain but the apostles . and thus we see , many traditions in several churches directly contrary to one another , were looked on as apostolical , onely from the prevalency of this perswasion , that whatever they derived from their fathers , was of that nature . but then for that answer to the council , and isidore , and ierome , that they make but one testimony : i say , that although the words be of the same sense , yet they have the nature of a different testimony , upon these accounts . first as produced by persons of different condition in the church ; some think they are even with ierome , when they tell us what a pique there was between him and iohn bishop of ierusalem ; and , that he might have the better advantage of his adversary , when he could not raise himself up to the honour of episcopacy , he would bring that down to the state of presbytery ; but as such entertain too unworthy thoughts of one of those fathers , whom they profess themselves admirers of ; so this prejudice cannot possibly lie against isidore , or the council : for the first was himself a bishop of no mean account in the church of god ; and the council was composed of such ; it could be no biass then of that nature could draw them to this opinion : and no doubt they would have been as forward to maintain their own authority in the church , as the truth and conscience would give them leave . therefore on this account one testimony of a single bishop , much more of a whole council of them , against their acting by divine authority in the church , is of more validity then ten for it ; in as much as it cannot but be in reason supposed that none will speak any thing against the authority they are in , or what may tend in the least to diminish it , but such as make more conscience of the truth , then of their own credit and esteem in the world. secondly , in that it was done in different ages of the church : ierome flourished about . isidore succeeded leander in sevill , . the council sat , . the council of aquen which tanscribes isidore , and owns his doctrine , . so that certainly supposing the words of all to be the same , yet the testimony is of greater force , as it was owned in several ages of the church , by whole councils , without any the least controul that we read of . and if this then must not be looked on as the sense of the church at that time , i know not how we can come to understand it : if what is positively maintained by different persons in different ages of the church , and in different places without any opposing it by writers of those ages , or condemning it by councils , may not be conceived to be the sense of the church at that time . so that laying all these things together , we may have enough to conclude the ambiguity at least , and thereby incompetency of the testimony of antiquity for finding out the certain form which the apostles observed in planting churches . we proceed to the third thing to shew the incompetency of antiquity for deciding this controversie , which will be from the partiality of the testimony brought from thence . two things will sufficiently manifest the partiality of the judgment of antiquity in this case . first their apparent judging of the practice of the first primitive church , according to the customes of their own . secondly , their stiffe and pertinacious adhering to private traditions contrary to one another , and both sides maintaining theirs as apostolical . first , judging the practice of the apostles by that of their own times ; as is evident by theodoret , and the rest of the greek commentators , assigning that as the reason why the presbyters spoken of in the epistles to timothy and titus , were not bishops in the sense of their age , because there could be but one bishop in a city , whereas there are more expressed in those places , as being in the several cities : whereas this is denyed of apostolical times by the late pleaders for episcopacy ; and it is said of them , that they spoke according to the custome of their own time . and it is now thought there were two bishops in apostolical times in several cities : the one the head of the jewish coetus , and the other of the gentile . i enter not the dispute again here , whether it were so or no , onely i hence manifest , how farr those persons themselves who plead for the judgement of the fathers as deciding this controversie , are from thinking them impartial judges , when as to the grounds of their sentence they are confessed to speak onely of the practice of their own time . who can imagine any force in chrysostomes argument , that the presbyters who laid hands on timothy must needs be bishops , because none do ordain in the church , but bishops , unless he makes this the medium of his argument . that whatever was the practice of the church in his dayes , was so in apostolical times . there is , i know not what strange influence in a received custome , if generally embraced , that doth possess men with a ●ancy , it was never otherwise then it is with them ; nay ▪ when they imagine the necessity of such a custome at present in the church , they presently think it could never be otherwise then it is . but of this i have spoken somewhat already . secondly , that which makes it appear how partial the judgement of antiquity is , in adhering to their particular traditions , and calling them apostolical , though contrary to one another . how can we then fix upon the testimony of antiquity as any thing certain or impartial in this case ? when it hath been found so evidently partial in a case of less concernment then this is . a witness that hath once betrayed his faithfulness in the open court , will hardly have his evidence taken in a case of moment , especially when the cause must stand or fall according to his single testimony . for my part , i see not how any man that would see reason for what he doth , can adhere to the church for an unquestionable tradition received from the apostles ; when in the case of keeping easter , whether with the jewes on the fourteenth moon , or only on the lords day , there was so much unreasonable heat shewed on both sides , and such confidence , that on either side their tradition was apostolical . the story of which is related by eusebius , and socrates , and many others . they had herein all the advantages imaginable in order to the knowing the certainty of the thing then in question among them . as their nearness to apostolical times , being but one remove from them : yea the persons contending pleaded personal acquaintance with some of the apostles themselves , as polycarp with iohn , and anicetus of rome , that he had his tradition from saint peter ; and yet so great were the heats , so irreconcilable the controversie , that they proceeded to dart the thunderbolt of excommunication in one anothers faces ; as victor with more zeal then piery , threw presently the asiatick churches all out of communion , onely for differing as to this tradition . the small coals of this fire kindled a whole aetna of contention in the christian world , the smoak and ashes , nay the flames of which , by the help of the prince of the aire were blown over into the bosome of the then almost infant northern churches of brittain , where a solemn dispute was caused upon this quarrel between colmannus on one side , and wilfride on the other . the like contest was upon this occasion between augustine the monk , and the brittish bishops . the observation of this strange combustion in the primitive church upon the account of so vain , frivolous , unnecessary a thing as this was , drew this note from a learned and judicious man , formerly quoted , in his tract of schism ; by this we may plainly see the danger of our appeal to antiquity , for resolution in controverted points of faith. o how small relief are we to expect from thence ! for if the discretion of the chiefest guides and directors of the church did in a point so trivial , so inconsiderable , so mainly fail them , as not to see the truth in a subject , wherein it is the greater marvel how they could avoid the fight of it ; can we , without the imputation of great grossness and folly , think so poor-spirited persons , competent iudges of the questions now on foot betwixt the churches ? thus that person , as able to make the best improvement of the fathers as any of those who profess themselves the most superstitious admirers of antiquity . but if we must stand to the judgement of the fathers , let us stand to it in this , that no tradition is any further to be imbraced , then as it is founded on the word of god. for which purpose those words of cyprian are very observable ; in compendio est autem apud religios as & simplices mentes , & errorem deponere , & invenire atque eruere veritatem : nam si ad divinae traditionis caput & originem revertamur , cessat error humanus . he asserts it an easie matter , for truly religious and plain-hearted men to lay aside their errour , and to find out the truth , which is by returning to the head and spring of divine tradition , viz. the scriptures ; which he expresseth further , with an elegant similitude : si canalis aquam ducens , qui copiose prius & largiter profluebat , subito deficiat , nonne ad fontem pergitur ut illic defectionis ratio noscatur , utrumne arescentibus venis , in capite unda siccaverit ; an verò integra deinde & plena procurrens , in medio itinere destiterit ? ut si vitio interrupti aut bibuli canalis effectum est , quò minus aqua continua perseveranter & jugiter flueret , refecto & confirmato canali ad usum atque ad potum civitatis aqua collecta eadem ubertate atque integritate repraesentaretur , qua de fonte proficiscitur . quod & nunc facere oportet dei sacerdotes praecepta divina servantes , ut si in aliquo mutaverit ( l. nutaverit ) & vacillaverit veritas , ad originem dominicam , & evangelicam ▪ & apostolicam traditionem revertamur , & inde surgat actus nostri ratio , unde & ordo & origo surrexit . his meaning is ; that as when a channel suddenly fails , we presently inquire where and how the breach was made , and look to the spring and fountain , to see the waters be fully conveyed from thence , as formerly : so upon any failure in the tradition of the church , our onely recourse must be to the true fountain of tradition the word of god , and ground the reason of our actions upon that which was the foundation of our profession . and when stephen the bishop of rome would tedder him to tradition , cyprian keeps his liberty by this close question , unde illa traditio ● utrumne de dominica & evangelica auctoritate descendens , an de apostolorum mandatis atque epistolis veniens , — si ergo aut evangelio praecipitur , aut in apostolorum epistolis , aut actibus continetur — observetur divina haec & sancta traditio . we see this good man would not baulk his way on foot for the great bugbear of tradition , unless it did bear the character of a divine truth in it , and could produce the credentials of scripture to testifie its authority to him . to the same purpose that stout bishop of cappadocia , firmilian , whose unhappiness with cyprians , was onely that of iobs friends , that they excellently managed a bad cause , and with far more of the spirit of christianity , then stephen did , who was to be justified in nothing but the truth he defended . eos autem , saith firmilian , qui roma sunt , non ea in omnibus observare quae sint ab origine tradita , & frustra apostolorum auctoritatem pr●tendere , which he there makes out at large , viz. that the church of rome had gathered corruption betimes , which after broke out into an impostume in the head of it . where then must we find the certain way of resolving the controversie we are upon ? the scriptures determine it not , the fathers tell us there is no believing tradition any further then it is founded in scripture ; thus are we sent back from one to the other , till at last we conclude there is no certain way at all left to find out a decision of it . not that we are left at such uncertainties as to matters of faith ( i would not be so mistaken ) we have archimedes his postulatum granted us for that , a place to fix our faith on , though the world be moved out of its place , i mean the undoubted word of god : but as to matters of fact not clearly revealed in scripture , no certainty can be had of them , from the hovering light of unconstant tradition . neither is it onely unconstant , but in many things repugnant to its self , which was the last consideration to be spoke to , in reference to the shewing the incompetency of antiquity for deciding our controversie . well then , suppose we our selves now waiting for the final verdict of church-tradition to determine our present cause ; if the iury cannot agree , we are as far from satisfaction as ever ; and this is certainly the case we are now in . the main difficulty lyes in the immediate succession to the apostles : if that were but once cleared , we might bear with interruptions afterwards : but the main seat of the controversie lies there , whether the apostles upon their withdrawing from the government of churches did substitute single persons to succeed them or no : so that u●less that be cleared , the very deed of gift is questioned : and if that could be made appear , all other things would speedily follow . yes , say some , that is clear : for at ierusalem , antioch , and rome , it is evident that single persons were entrusted with the government of churches . in ierusalem , say they , iames the brother of our lord , was made bishop by the apostles : but whence doth that appear ? it is said from hegesippus in eusebius . but what if he say no such thing ? his words are these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is there interpreted , ecclesiae administrationem una cum caeteris apostolis suscepit . and no more is thereby meant , but that this iames who is by the antients conceived to be onely a disciple before , is now taken into a higher charge ; and invested in a power of governing the church as the apostles were . his power , it is plain , was of the same nature , with that of the apostles themselves : and who will go about to degrade them so much as to reduce them to the office of ordinary bishops ? iames in probability did exercise his apostleship the most at ierusalem , where by the scriptures we find him resident , and from hence the church afterwards , because of his not travelling abroad as the other apostles did , according to the language of their own times , they fixed the title of bishop upon him . but greater difference we shall find in those who are pleaded to be successours of the apostles . at antioch some , as origen and eusebius , make ignatius to succeed peter . ierome makes him the third bishop , and placeth evodius before him . others therefore to solve that , make them cotemporary bishops ; the one of the church of the jewes , the other of the gentiles : with what congruity to their hypothesis of a single bishop and deacons placed in every city , i know not : but that salvo hath been discussed before . come we therefore to rome , and here the succession is as muddy as the tiber it self ; for here tertullian , rufinus , and several others place clement next to peter . irenaeus and eusebius set anacletus before him : epiphanius and optatus both anacletus and cletus ; augustinus and damasus with others , make anacletus , cletus , and linus , all to precede him . what way shall we find to extrica e our selves out of this labyrinth , so as to reconcile it with the certainty of the form of government in the apostles times ? certainly , if the line of succession fail us here , when we most need it , we have little cause to pin our faith upon it as to the certainty of any particular form of church-government setled in the apostles times , which can be drawn from the help of the records of the primitive church : which must be first cleared of all defectiveness , ambiguity , partiality , and confusion ; before the thing we inquire for , can be extracted out of them . having thus far shewed that we have no absolute certainty of what form of government was setled by the apostles in the several churches of their plantation : the next consideration which follows to be spoken to , is , that the apostles in probability did not observe any one fixed course of setling the government of churches , but setled it according to the several circumstances of places and persons which they had to deal with . this will be ex abundanti as to the thing by me designed , which would be sufficiently cleared without this : and therefore i lay it not as the foundation of my thesis , but onely as a doctrine of probability , which may serve to reconcile the controversies on foot about church-government . for if this be made appear , then it may be both granted that the apostles did settle the government in the church in a colledg of presbyters , and in a bishop and deacons too , according to the diversity of places , and the variety of circumstances . it is easie to observe , that as to rites and customes in the church , the original of most mens mistakes , is , concluding that to be the general practice of the church , which they meet with in some places : whereas that is most true which firmiliam tells us , in plurimis provinciis , multa pro locorum & nominum ( l. hominum ) diversitate , variantur ; nec tamen propter hoc ab ecclesiae catholicae pace atque unitate discossum est . those rites varied in divers places , retaining still the unity of the faith ; so , as to matter of government , mens mistakes do arise from an universal conclusion deduced out of particular premises ; and what they think was done in one place , they conclude must be done in all : whereas these are the grounds inducing me probably to conclude that they observed not the same course in all places . which when an impartial reader hath soberly considered ( with what hath gone before , ) i am in hopes , the novelty of this opinion may not prejudicate its entertainment with him . my grounds are these ; first , from the different state , condition and quantity of the churches planted by the apostles . secondly , from the multitude of unfixed officers in the church then , which acted with authority over the church where they were resident . thirdly , from the different customes observed in several churches , as to their government after the apostles decease . i begin with the first , the different state , condition , and quantity of the churches planted by the apostles : for which we are to consider these things ; first , that god did not give the apostles alike success of their labours in all places . secondly , that a small number of believers did not require the same number , which a great church did , to teach and govern them . thirdly , that the apostles did settle church-officers according to the probability of increase of believers , and in order thereto , in some great places . first , that god did not give the apostles equal success to their labours in all places . after god called them to be fishers of men , it was not every draught which filled their net with whole shoals of fishes ; sometimes they might toyle all night still and catch nothing , or very little . it was not every sermon of peters which converted three thousand : the whole world might at that rate soon have become christian , although there had been but few preachers besides the apostles . god gave them strange success at first , to encourage them the better to meet with difficulties afterwards ; in 〈…〉 es god told them he had much people , in others we read but of few that believed . at corinth , paul plants , and apollos waters , and god gives an abundant increase ; but at athens ( where if moral dispositions had fitted men for grace , and the improvements of nature , we might have expected the greatest number of converts ) yet here we read of many mocking , and others delaying , and but of very few believing : dionysius and damaris , and some others with them . the plantations of the apostles were very different , not from the nature of the soile they had to deal with , but from the different influence of the divine spirit upon their endeavours in severall places . we cannot think that the church at cenchrea ( for so it is called ) was as well stockt with believers , as that at corinth . nay , the churches generally in the apostles times were not so filled with numbers , as men are apt to imagine them to be . i can as soon hope to find in apostolical times diocesan churches as classical and provincial ; yet this doth not much advantage the principles of the congregational men , as i have already demonstrated . yet i do not think that all churches in the apostles times were but one congregation ; but as there was in cities many synagogues , so there might be many churches out of those synagogues enjoying their former liberties and priviledges . and they that will shew me where five thousand jewes and more did ordinarily meet in one of their synagogues for publike worship , may gain something upon me , in order to believing the church of ierusalem to be but one congregation , and yet not perswade me , till they have made it appear , that the christians then had as publike solemn set meetings as the jews had ; which he that understands the state of the churches at that time , will hardly yield to the belief of . i confess , i cannot see any rule in scripture laid down for distributing congregations : but this necessity would put them upon ; and therefore it were needless to prescribe them ; and very little , if any , reason can i see on the other side , why , where there were so much people as to make distinct congregations , they must make distinct churches from one another ; but of that largely in the next chapter . all churches then we see were not of an equal extent . the second premisal reason will grant , viz. that a small church did not require the same number of officers to rule it , which a great one did . for the duty of officers lying in reference to the people , where the people was but few , one constant setled officer with deacons under him , might with as much ease discharge the work , as in a numerous church , the joynt help of many officers was necessary to carry it on . the same reason which tells us that a large flock of sheep consisting of many thousands doth call for many shepherds to attend them , doth likewise tell us that a small flock may be governed with the care of one single shepherd watching continually over them . the third premisall was that in great cities the apostles did not onely respect the present guidance of those that were converted , but established such as might be useful for the converting and bringing in of others to the faith , who were as yet strangers to the covenant of promise , and aliens from the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , society of christians . and here i conceive a mistake of some men lies , when they think the apostles respected onely the ruling of those which were already converted ; for though this were one part of their work , yet they had an eye to the main design then on foot , the subjecting the world to the obedience of faith ; in order to which it was necessity in places of great resort and extent , to place not onely such as might be sufficient to superintend the affairs of the church , but such as might lay out themselves the most in preaching the gospel in order to converting others . haveing laid down these things by way of premisal , we will see what advantage we can make of them in order to our purpose . first , then i say , that in churches consisting of a small number of believers , where there was no great probability of a large increase afterwards : one single pastour with deacons under him , were onely constituted by the apostles for the ruling of those churches . where the work was not so great , but a pastour and deacons might do it , what need was there of having more ? and in the great scarcity of fit persons for setled rulers then , and the great multitude and necessity of unfixed officers for preaching the gospel abroad , many persons fit for that work could not be spared to be constantly resident upon a place . now that in some places at first there were none placed but onely a pastour and deacons , i shall confirm by these following testimonies . the first is that of clement in his epistle , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the apostles therefore preaching abroad through countreys and cities , ordained the first-fruits of such as believed , having proved them by the spirit , to be bishops and deacons for them that should afterwards believe . whether by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 we understand villages or regions , is not material ; for it is certain here the author takes it as distinct from cities ; and there is nothing , i grant , expressed where the apostles did place bishops and deacons exclusive of other places , i. e. whether onely in cities or countreys ; but it is evident by this , that where-ever they planted churches , they ordained bishops and deacons , whether those churches were in the city or countrey . and here we find no other officers setled in those churches , but bishops and deacons ; and that there were no more in those churches then he speaks of , appears from his designe of paralleling the church-officers in the gospel , to those under the law : and therefore it was here necessary to enumerate all that were then in the churches . the main controversie is , what these bishops were ; whether many in one place ; or onely one ; and if but one , whether a bishop in the modern sense or no. for the first , here is nothing implying any necessity of having more then one in a place , which will further be made appear by and by , out of other testimonies which will help to explain this . as for the other thing , we must distinguish of the notion of a bishop : for he is either such a one as hath none over him in the church ; or he is such a one as hath a power over presbyters acting under him , and by authority derived from him . if we take it in the first sense , so every pastor of a church having none exercising jurisdiction over him , is a bishop ; and so every such single pastor in the churches of the primitive times was a bishop in this sense , as every master of a family before societies for government were introduced , might be called a king , because he had none above him to command him : but if we take a bishop in the more proper sense , for one that hath power over presbyters and people , such a one these single pastors were not , could not be . for it is supposed that these were onely single pastors . but then it is said that after other presbyters were appointed , then these single pastors were properly bishops ; but to that i answer : first , they could not be proper bishops by vertue of their first constitution ; for then they had no power over any presbyters , but onely over the deacons and people ; and therefore it would be well worth considering how a power of jurisdiction over presbyters can be derived , from those single pastors of churches that had no presbyters joyned with them . it must be then clearly and evidently proved that it was the apostles intention that these single pastors should have the power over presbyters , when the churches necessity did require their help , which intention must be manifested and declared by some manifestation of it as a law of christ , or nothing can thence be deduced of perpetual concernment to the church of christ. secondly , either they were bishops before , or onely after the appointment of presbyters ; if before , then a bishop , and a presbyter having no bishop over him , are all one ; if after onely , then it was by his communicating power to presbyters to be such , or their choice which made him their bishop ; if the first , then presbyters quoad ordinem are onely a humane institution , it being acknowledged that no evidence can be brought from scripture for them ; and for any act of the apostles not recorded in scripture for the constituting of them , it must goe among unwritten traditions ; and if that be a law still binding the church , then there are such which occurre not in the word of god , and so that must be an imperfect coppy of divine lawes : if he were made bishop by an act of the presbyters , then presbyters have power to make a bishop , and so episcopacy is an humane institution depending upon the voluntary act of presbyters . but the clearest evidence for one single pastour with deacons in some churches at the beginning of christianity , is that of epiphanius , which though somewhat large , i shall recite , because , if i mistake not , the curtailing of this testimony hath made it speak otherwise then ever epiphanius meant . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. the sense of epiphanius is very intricate and obscure ; we ●hall endeavour to explain it : he is giving aerius an account why paul in his epistle to timothy mentions onely bishops and deacons , and passeth over presbyters . his account is this : first he cha●geth aerius with ignorance of the series of history ( which he calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) and the profound and ancient records the church , wherein it is expressed , that upon the first preaching of the gospel , the apostle writ according to the present state of things . where bishops were not yet appointed ( for so certainly it should be read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for then he must contradict himself ) the apostle writes to bishops and deacons ; ( for the apostles could not settle all things at first ) for there was a necessity of presbyters and deacons ; for by these two orders all ecclesiastical offices might be performed : for where ( so i read it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the sense , clearly carries it ) there was not found any worthy of being a bishop , the place remained without one ; but where necessity required one , and there were some found fit for that office , there some were ordained bishops ; but for want of convenient number , there could be no presbyters found out to be ordained , and in such places they were contented with the bishop and deacons ; for without their ministry the bishop could not be . so that according to epiphanius , there were three several states of churches in the apostles times ; first some churches where there were onely presbyters and deacons without a bishop . for , if epiphanius speaks not at first of places where presbyters were without a bishop ; he must be guilty of a vain and empty tautology , for he after tells us where the necessity of the church required it , a bishop was made ; therefore before he speaks of places only where presbyters and deacons were ; and otherwise he would not answer aerius about tim. . . which it is his design to do , about the laying on of the hands of the presbyterie . he grants then that at first in some places there were only presbyters and deacons , as when the apostle writes to bishops and deacons ( where bishops at that time of the church were only presbyters ) of which two orders , presbyters and deacons , there was an absolute necessity ; and the account he gives why they setled no higher order , above them is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the apostles could not settle all things at first ; which words are to be read with a parenthesis , giving an account why sometimes only bishops and deacons were setled , that is , presbyters so called . but , saith he , where necessity called for a higher order of bishops above presbyters , and any were found qualified for it , there such were appointed ; and if by reason of the want of persons of sufficient abilities to be made presbyters in those places , there they were contented with such a superior bishop and deacons assisting of him ; some churches then according to his judgement , had a company of presbyters to rule them being assisted with deacons ; others had only a single bishop with deacons ; and after when the numbers were increased , and persons qualified were found , there were both bishops , presbyters , and deacons . for , the account which he gives of the former want of some officers in some churches , is this , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as the learned dr. well corrects it ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the church not yet having all her offices filled , things were fain to remain in that state . for nothing can be compleated at first , but in process of time every thing receives its due perfection . so that epiphanius doth not ( as it is thought by some ) say , that in the first times of the church , there were none but bishops and deacons in all churches , but in some churches there were presbyters and deacons , in others bishops and deacons , according to the state , condition and necessity of the churches . epiphanius then fully and clearly expresseth my opinion , in reference to the apostles not observing any one constant course in all churches , but setling sometimes many presbyters with deacons , sometimes only one pastor ( who is therefore called a bishop ) with deacons , and so setling officers according to the particular occasions of every church . the next considerable testimony to our purpose , is that of clemens alexandrinus in eusebius , concerning st. iohn after his return out of the ●sle of patmos to ephesus , upon the death of domitian . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . he went abroad upon invitation into the neighbour-provinces , in some places constituting bishops ; in some setting in order whole churches , in others choosing out one from among the rest of those who were designed by the spirit of god , whom he set over the church . so salmasius contends it must be translated , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , choosing one into the clergy ; for , those who were chosen bishops , are sald 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and they that choose are said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . whence salmasius gathers out of these words the very thing i am now upon ; in majoribus urbibus plures , in minoribus pauciores presbyteros ordinari solitos , probabile est . in pagis autem aut vicis , vel pusillis oppidis , quales 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vocabant graeci , unum aliquem presbyterum per illa praecipuè tempora quibus non magnus erat numerus sidelium , suffecisse verisimile est . that the apostles set a greater number of presbyters in great cities , fewer in less , and in small villages but one , when the number of believers was but small . we have yet one author more who speaks fully to our purpose . it is the author of the commentaries under ambrose his name , who frequently asserts-this opinion i am now making good . upon the fourth of ephesians , he largely discourseth how things were setled at first , by the apostles , by degrees , in the church of god , evidently shewing that the apostles did not at first observe any setled constant course , but acted according to present conveniency , as they saw good , in order to the promoting and advancing the churches interest . post quam omnibus locis ecclesiae sunt constitutae & officia ordinata , aliter composita res est quam coeperat . thereby declaring his opinion , that while churches were constituting , no certain course was observed . for , as he goes on , primum enim omnes docebant , & omnes baptizabant , quibuscunque diebus vel temporibus fuisset occasio , &c. ut ergo cresceret plebs & multiplicaretur , omnibus inter initia concessum est & evangelizare , & baptizare , & scripturas in ecclesia explanare . at ubi omnia loca circumplexa est ecclesia , conventicula constituta sunt , & rectores & caetera officia in ecclesiis sunt ordinata ; ut nullus de clero auderet , qui ordinatus non esset , prasumere ossicium quod sciret non sibi creditum vel concessum ; & coepit alio ordine & providentiâ gubernari ecclesia ; quia si omnes eadem possent , irrationabile esset , & vulgaris res , & vilissima videretur , &c. ideò non per omnia conveniunt scripta apostoli ordinationi quae nunc est in ecclesia , quia haec inter primordia sunt scripta ; nam & timotheum , ( presbyterum à se creatum ) episcopum vocat ; quia primum presbyteri episcopi appellabantur , ut recedente uno sequens ei succederet , &c. at first , he saith , all church-offices lay open to all persons , and every one did preach and baptize upon all occasions ; but afterwards , when congregations were established and churches setled , then none undertook that office but those that were ordained to it . thence it is , that the apostles writings are not suitable to the present state of the church , because they were penned in the time when things were not fully setled . for he calls timothy , who was made a presbyter by him , bishop ; for so at first the presbyters were called , among whom this was the course of governing churches , that as one withdrew , another took his place . this opinion of his , he takes occasion to speak of in several other places . upon rom. . adhuc rectores ecclesiae paucis erant in locis ; governours of churches were as yet set up but in few places . and upon cor. . propterea ecclesiae scribit , quia adhuc singulis ecclesiis rectores non erant instituti . and on cor. . convenientibus presbyteris , quia adh●o rectores ecclesiis non omnibus locis erant constituti . by all which it is most evident , that this both learned and antient author , cited with no small respect by st. austin , doth not conceive that the apostle , did observe any setled form in the governing of churches , but act●d according to principles of prudence , according to the necessities and occasions of the several churches by them planted : so that where there were small churches , one pastor with deacons might suffice : in greater churches some were governed by presbyters acting in common council : others , though very few at first , had rectors placed over them , for superintending the affairs of the church . secondly , in churches consisting of a multitude of believers , or where there was a probability of great increase by preaching the gospel ; the apostles did settle a colledge of presbyters , whose office was partly to govern the church already formed , and partly to labour in the converting more . so that in all great cities , where either the work was already great by the number of believers , in order to the discharging of pastoral duties to them , or where it was great in reference to the number they laboured in converting of , it seems most consonant to reason and scripture , that the work should be carried on by the joint assistance of many associated in the same work . for , is it any ways probable that the apostles should ordain bishops 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as clemens speaks , of such as should believe ; and not ordain persons in order to the making them believe ? they have either a very low opinion of the work of a gospel-bishop , or very little consideration of the zeal , activity and diligence which was then used in preaching , reproving , exhorting , in season , out of season , that think one single person was able to undergo it all ▪ discipline was a great deal more strict the● , preaching more diligent , men more apprehensive of the weight of their function , than for any to undertake such a care and charge of souls , that it was impossible for them ever to know , observe , or watch over so as to give an account for them . besides , while we suppose this one person imployed in the duties of his flock , what leisure or time could such a one have to preach to the gentiles and unbelieving jews in order to their conversion ? the apostles did not certainly aym at the setting up the honour of any one person , making the office of the church a matter of state and dignity more then employment , but they chose men for their activity in preaching the gospel , and for their usefulness in labouring to add continually to the church . men that were imployed in the church then , did not consult for their ●ase or honour , and thought it not enough for them to sit still and b●d others work , but they were of pauls mind , necessity was laid upon them , yea , woe was unto them if they preached not the gospel . publick prayers were not then looked on as the more principal end of christian assemblies then preaching , nor consequen●ly that it was the more principal office of the steward● of the mysteries of god , to read the publick prayers of the church , then to preach in season and out of season . and is it not great pitty , two such excellent and necessary duties should ever be set at variance , much less one so preferred before the other , that the one must be esteemed as sarah , and the other almost undergo the hardship of hagar , to be looked on as the bond-woman of the synagogue , and be turned out of doors ? praying and preaching are the iackin and boaz of the temple , like rachel and leah , both which built up the house of israel : but though rachel be fair and beautifull , yet leah is the more fruitful : though prayer be lovely and amiable in the sight of god , when it comes from a heart seriously affected with what it speaks , yet preaching tends more to the turning mens souls from sin unto god. were the apostles commissioned by christ to go pray or preach ? and what is it wherein the ministers of the gospel succeed the apostles ? is it in the office of praying , or preaching ? was paul sent not to baptize , but to preach the gospel ? and shall we think those who succeed paul in his office of preaching , are to look upon any thing else as more their work then that ? are ministers in their ordination sent forth to be readers of publick prayers , or to be dispensers of gods holy word ? are they ordained wholly to this , and shall this be the lesse principal part of their work ? i , but the reason is unanswerable , that praying is the more principal end of christian-assemblies then preaching ; for , the one is the end , and the other the means . if by end , be meant the ultimate end of all christian duties , that cannot be prayer : for that is a means it self in order to that ; but the chief end is the fitting souls for eternal prayses ; if then this unanswerable reason hold good , the principal end of christian assemblies must be only prayses of god , and not prayers : if by the end , be meant the immediate end of preaching as that it referrs to , that cannot be ; for the immediate end of preaching , if the apostle may be judge , is instruction and edification in the faith ; rather preaching is the end of praying , in as much as the blessings conveyed by preaching , are the things which men pray for . but this is but one of those unhappy consequences which follows mens judging of the service of ▪ god , rather by the practices of the church , when it came to enjoy ease and plenty , than by the wayes and practices of the first and purest apostolical times : when the apostles who were best able to judge of their own duty , looked upon themselves as most concerned in the preaching of the gospel . but to this it is commonly said , that there was great reason for it then , because the world was to be converted to christianity , and therefore preaching was the more necessary work at that time ; but when a nation is converted to the faith , that necessity ceaseth . it is granted , that the preaching of the gospel in regard of its universal extent was more necessary then , which was the foundation of christs instituting the apostolical office with an unlimited commission ; but if we take preaching as referring to particular congregations , there is the same necessity now that there was then . people need as much instruction as ever , and so much the more in that they are apt to think now the name of christians will carry them to heaven . it is a too common and very dangerous deceit of men , to look upon religion more as a profession , then matter of life , more as a notion then an inward temper . men must be beat off from more things which they are apt to trust to for salvation now , than in those times : men could not think so much then , that diligence in publike assemblies , and attendance at publick prayers , was the main religion . few would profess christianity in those times , but such as were resolved before hand rather to let go their lives then their profession : but the more profess it now , without understanding the terms of salvation by it ; the greater necessity of preaching to instruct men in it . but i think more need not be said of this to those that know it is another thing to be a christian , then to be called so . but however it is granted , that in the apostles times preaching was the great work ; and if so , how can we think one single person in a great city was sufficient , both to preach to , and rule the church , and to preach abroad in order to the conversion of more from their gentilisme to christianity ? especially if the church of every city was so large as some would make it , viz. to comprehend all the believers under the civil jurisd●ction of the city , and so both city and countrey the only charge of one single bishop . i think the vastness of the work , and the impossibility of a right discharge of it by one single person , may be argument enough to make us interpret the places of scripture which may be understood in that sense , as of more then one pastour in every city ; as when the apostles are said to ordain elders in every city , and pauls calling for the elders from ephesus , and his writing to the bishops and deacons of the church of philippi ; this consideration , i say , granting that the texts may be otherwise understood , will be enough to incline men to think that in greater cities there was a society of presbyters acting together for the carrying on the work of the gospel in converting some to , and building up of others in the faith of christ. and it seems not in the least manner probable to me , that the care of those great churches should at first be intrusted in the hands of one single pastour and deacon , and afterwards a new order of presbyters erected under them , without any order or rule laid down in scripture for it , or any mention in ecclesiastical writers of any such after institution . but instead of that in the most populous churches , we have many remaining footsteps of such a colledge of presbyters there established in apostolical times . thence ignatius says , the presbyters are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the sanhedrin of the church appointed by god ; and the bench of apostles sitting together for ruling the affairs of the church . and origen calls it ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a colledge in every city of gods appointing ; and victor bishop of rome ; colligium nostrum , and collegium fratrum ; pius , pauperem senatum christi apud romam constitutum . tertullian , probatos seniores ; cyprian , cleri nostri sacrum venerandumque concessum ; and to cornelius bishop of rome , and his clergy , florentissimo clero tecum praesidenti . ierome , senatum nostrum , coetum presbyterorum , & commune concilium presbyterorum quo ecclesiae gubernabantur . hilary , seniores sin● quorum consilio nihil agebatur in ecclesia ; the author de ordinibus ad rusti●um ; calls the presbyt●●s negotiorum judices . en●ychius tells us there were twelve presbyters at alexandria to govern the church ; and the author of the i●inerary of peter ▪ of as many constituted at caesaria , who though counterfeit , must be allowed to speak , though not ver● , yet verisimilia ; though not true , yet likely things . is i● possible all these authors should thus speak of their several places , of a colledge of presbyters acting in power with the bishop , if at first churches were governed only by a single bishop , and afterwards by subject presbyters that had nothing to do in the rule of the church , but were only deputed to some particular offices under him , which they were impowered to do only by his authority ? but the joint-rule of bishop and presbyters in the churches will be more largely deduced afterwards . thus we see a company of presbyters setled in great churches ; now we are not to imagine that all these did equally attend to one part of their wo●k ; but all of them according to their several abilities laid out themselves ; some in ●verseeing and guiding the church ; but yet so as upon occasion to discharge all pastoral acts belonging to their function ; others betook themselves chiefly to the conversion of others to the faith , either in the cities or the adjacent countryes . by which we come to a full , clear , and easie understanding of that so much controverted place , tim. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the elders that rule well are counted worthy of double honour ; especially they that labour in the word and doctrine . not as though it implyed a dist●●ct sort of elders from the pastors of churches , but among those elders that were ordained in the great churches , some attended most to ruling the flock already converted , others laboured most in converting others to the faith by preaching ; though both these being entred into this peculiar function of laying themselves forth for the benefit of the church , did deserve both respect and maintenance , yet especially those who imployed themselves in converting others , in as much as their burden was greater , their labours more abundant , their sufferings more ; and their very office coming the nearest to the apostolical function . so chrysostome resolves it upon the fourth of the ephesians , that those who were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as theodoret expresseth it , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ the fixed officers of particular churches were inferiour to those who went abroad preaching the gospel ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . an evident argument that the apostle doth not intend any sort of elders dictinct from these ordained presbyters of the cities , is from that very argument which the greatest friends to lay-elders draw out of this epistle , which is from the promiscuous acception of the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this very epistle to timothy : the argument runs thus : the presbyters spoken of by paul in his epistle to timothy , are scripture-bishops ; but lay-elders are not scripture-bishops ; therefore these cannot here be meant . the major is their own , from tim. . . compared with . . those which are called presbyters in one place , are bishops in another ; and the main force of the argument lies in the promiscuous use of bishop and presbyter ; now then if lay-elders be not such bishops , then they are not pauls presbyters ; now pauls bishops must be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fit to teach , and therefore no lay-elders . again , we may consider where timothy now was , viz at ephesus , and therefore if such lay-elders anywhere they should be there ; let us see then whether any such were here it is earnestly pleaded by all who are for lay-elders , that the elders spoken of acts . . were the particular elders of the church of ephesus , to whom paul spoke , v. . where we may find their office at large described take heed therefore unto your selves , and all the flock over which god hath made you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 bishops or overseers . here we see both the names elders and bishops confounded again , so that he that was an elder was a bishop too , and the office of such elders described to be a pastoral charge over a flock , which is inconsistent with the notion of a lay-elder ▪ paul sent indefinitely for the elders of the church to come to him ; if any such then at ephesus , they must come at this summons , all the elders that came , were such as were pastors of churches : therefore there could be no lay elders there ▪ i insist not on the argument for maintenance implyed in double honour , which chrysostome explains by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a supply of necessaries to be given to them , as appears by ver . . which argument blondel saw such strength in , that it brought him quite off from lay-elders in that place of timothy . and he that will remove the controversie from the scriptures , to the primitive church , ( as we have no reason to think , that if such were appointed , they should be so soon laid aside ) will find it the greatest d●fficulty to trace the foot-steps of a lay-elder , through the records of antiquity for the three first centuries especially . the writers of the church speak of no presbyters , but such as preached , as appears by origen , cyprian , and clement of ! alexandria ; origen saith , omnes episcopi atque omn●s presbyteri vel diaconi ●rudiunt nos , & erudientes adhibent correptionem , & verbis austerioribus increpant . we see all bishops , presbyters , and deacons w●re in his time preachers . so cyprian , et cre●ideram quidem presbyteros & diaconos qui illic praesentes sunt , monere vos & instruere plenissimè circa evangelii legem , sicut semper ab antecessoribus nostris factum est ▪ and in another epistle about making numidicus a presbyter , he thus expresseth it , ut ascribatur presbyterorum carthaginensium numero , & nobiscum sedeat in clero ; where to sit as one of the clergy , and to be a presbyter , are all one . again , had there been any such elders , it would have belonged to them to lay hands on those that were reconciled to the church after censures ; now hands were onely laid on ab episcopo & clero , as the same cyprian tells us . clemens alexandrinus describing the office of a presbyter , hath these words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , where teaching is looked on as his proper work : and elsewhere , more fully and expresly discoursing of the service of god , and distinguishing it according to the twofold service of men , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he applies these to the churches , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the former he explains afterwards , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a presbyter is one that is ordained or appointed for the instruction of others in order to their amendment , implying thereby the office of a presbyter to be wholly conversant about teaching others , to whom on that account the art of making others better doth properly belong . so much may suffice for those first times of the church , that there were no presbyters then , but such as had the office of teaching . and for the times afterwards of the church , let it suffice at present to produce the testimony of a council held in the beginning of the seventh century , who absolutely decree against all lay-persons medling in church-affairs ; nova actione didicimus , quosdam ex nostro collegio contra mores ecclesiasticos , laicos habere in rebus divinis constitutos oeconomos . proinde pariter tractantes eligimus , ut unusquisque nostrûm secundum chalcedonensium patrum decreta , ex proprio clero oeconomum sibi constituat . indecorum est enim laicum esse vicarium episcopi , & saculares in ecclesia judicare ; i● uno enim eodemque offici● non debet esse dispar professio . a canon directly leveld against all lay-chancellours in bishops courts , and such officials : but doth with the same force take away all lay-elders , as implying it to be wholly against the rule of the church to have secular persons to judge in the church . but although i suppose this may be sufficient to manifest the no divine right of lay-elders ; yet i do not therefore absolutely condemn all use of some persons chosen by the people to be as their representatives , for managing their interest in the affairs of the church . for , now the voice of the people ( which was used in the primitive times ) is grown out of use : such a constitution , whereby two or more of the peoples choice might be present at church debates , might be very useful , so they be looked on onely as a prudential humane constitution , and not as any thing founded on divine right . so much may serve for the first ground of the probability of the apostles not observing one setled form of church-government , which was from the different state , quantity and condition of the churches by them planted . the second was from the multitude of unfixed officers residing in some places , who managed the affairs of the church in chief , during their residence . such were the apostles and evangelists , and all persons almost of note in scripture . they were but very sew , and those in probability not the ablest , who were left at home to take care of the spoil ; the strongest and ablest , like commanders in an army , were not setled in any troop , but went up and down from this company to that , to order them and draw them forth : and while they were , they had the chief authority among them ; but as commandets of the army , and not as officers of the troop . such were evangelists who were sent sometimes into this countrey to put the churches in order there , sometimes into another ; but where ever they were , they acted as evangelists and not as fixed officers . and s●c● were timothy and titus , notwithstanding all the opposition made against it , as will appear to any that will take an impartial survey of the arguments on both sides . now where there were in some places evangelists , in others not , and in many churches it may be no other officers but these , it will appear , that the apostles did not observe one constant form , but were with the evangelists travelling abroad to the churches , and ordering things in them as they saw cause . but as to this i have anticipated my self already . the last ground was from the different custome observed in the churches , after the apostles times . for no other rational account can be given of the different opinions of epiphanius , ierome , and hilary , but this , that one speak● of the custome of some churches , and the other of others . in some as at alexandria , the presbyters might choose their bishop ; in other places it might be , as hilary saith , that when the first withdrew , another succeeded him . not by a monethly or annual rotation of presidents , as some have imagined , but by a presidency for life of one , upon whose death another succeeded in his room . for the former opinion hath not any evidence at all for it in scripture or antiquity ; or in the place brought to prove it . for , according to this opinion , timothy must have but his course in the rotation of elders at ephesus , which seems very incongruous to the office of timothy . i conclude th●n that in all probability the apostles tyed not themselves up to one certain course , but in some churches setled more or fewer officers as they saw cause , and in others governed themselves during life ; and that at their death they did not determine any form , is probably argued from the different customes of several churches afterwards . the third consideration touching apostolical practice , is concerning the obligatory force of it in reference to us ; which i lay down in these terms , that a meer apostolical practice being supposed , is not sufficient of its self for the founding an unalterable and perpetual right , for that form of government in the church , which is supposed to be founded on that practice . this is a proposition i am sure , will not be yielded without proving it ; and therefore i shall endeavour to doe it by a fourfold argument . first , because many things were done by the apostles without any intention of obliging any who succeeded them afterwards to do the same . as for instance , the twelve apostles going abroad so unprovided as they did when christ sent them forth at first , which would argue no great wisedome or reason in that man , that should draw that practice into consequence now . of the like nature was pauls preaching 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to some churches , receiving no maintenance at all from some churches , as that at corinth . which instance is a manifest evidence of the monstrous weakness of discourse in those who would make that example of paul obligatory to all ministers of the gospel now . and while they would by this argument take away their lands and tythes , instead of them , they give them plaustra convitiorum , whole loads of the most reproachful speeches that ever were given to any , but christ and his apostles . for my part , i think the ministers of the gospel would want one of the badges of honour belonging to their office , were they not thus reproachfully used ▪ it is part of the state which belongs to the true ministers of the gospel to be followed by such blackmouthed lacqueyes , who by their virulent speeches are so farre their friends , as to keep them from that curse which our saviour pronounceth ; wo be unto you when all men speak well of you . but let us see how much wooll there is after all this cry ▪ too little to cloath the backs of ministers , if such persons might be their tythe-men ; but it is well they are so little befriended , yea so much opposed by the great apostle , in that singular practice of his . for doth he say , it was unlawful for him to receive a maintenance from the churches he preached to ? nay doth he not set himself to prove not onely the lawfulness of ministers taking it , but the duty of peoples giving it , cor. . from the seventh to the f●●teenth verse , giving many pregnant arguments to that purpose ? doth he not say that all the apostles besides him and barnabas , did forbear working , and consequen●ly had all their necessities supplyed by the churches ? nay do●h not paul himself say that he robbed other churches , taking wages of them to do service to them ? what paul turned hireling ? and in the plainest terms take wages of churches ? yet so it is , and his forbearing it at corinth , was apt to be interpreted as an argument that he did not love them , cor. . . so far were they from looking upon paul as a hireling in doing it . paul is strong and earnest in asserting his right : he might have done it at corinth as well as elsewhere : but from some prudent considerations of his own , mentioned cor. . . he forbo●e the exercise of his right among them , although at the same time he received maintenance from other places . as for any divine right of a particular way of maintenance , i am of the same opinion as to that which i am in reference to particular forms of church-government : and those that are of another opinion . i would not wish them so much injury , as to want their maintenance till they prove it . but then i say , these things are clear in themselves , and i think sufficient grounds for conscience , as to the duty of paying on the one side , and the lawfulness of receiving it on the other ▪ first that a maintenance in general be given to gospel ministers , is of divine right : else the labourer were not worthy of his hire ; nor could that be true which paul saith , that our lord hath ordained ; that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel . secondly , a maintenance in general being due , lawful authority may determine the particular way of raising it ; the equity of which way may be best derived from what was the most ancient pract●ce of the world in dedicating things to god , and was approved by god himself among his own people , the jews : so that the way of maintenance by tythes is the most just and equitable way . thirdly , it being in the magistrates power to determine the way of maintenance , what is so determined , doth bind the consciences of all subject to that power , to an obedience to it for conscience sake : in as much as all men are bound thus to obey the magistrate in all things established by him as laws ; and the very same reasons any can plead for disobedience as to this , may equally serve for disobedience to any other lawes made by the supreme magistrate . this i suppose is the clearest resolution of that other more vexed then intricate controversie about the right of tythes ; which i have here spoken of by occasion of the mention of the apostles practice ; and because it is resolved upon the same principles with the subject i am upon . meer apostolical practice we see doth not bind , because the apostles did many things without intention of binding others . secondly , the apostles did many things upon particular occasions , emergencies , and circumstances , which things so done , cannot bind by vertue of their doing them any further then a parity of reason doth conclude the same things to be done in the same circumstances . thus pauls coelibate is far from binding the church , it being no universal practice of the apostles by a law , but onely a thing taken up by him upon some particular grounds , not of perpetual and universal concernment . so community of goods was used at first by the church o● ierusalem as most sutable to the present state of that church ; but as far as we can find , did neither perpetually hold in that church , nor universally obtain among other churches ; as is most clear in the church at corinth by their law-sui●● , by the different offerings of the rich and poor at the lords supper , and by their personal contributions . so the apostles preaching from house to house , was , for want of conveniency then of more publick places , as free onely for christians ; although that practice binds now as far as the reason doth ; viz. in its tendency the promoting the work of salvation of mens souls laying on hands for conferring the gifts of the holy ghost can never certainly bind where the reason of it is ceased , but may still continue ●s a rite of solemn prayer , and not by vertue of that practice . observing the apostolical decrees of abstaining from blood , and things strangled and offered to idols , did hold as long as the ground of making them did , which was condescension to the jews , although it must be withall acknowledged that the primitive christians of the second and third centuries did generally observe them ; and the greek church to this day ; and some men of note and learning have pleaded for the necessary observation of them still , as christ. beckman , steph. curcellaeus in a diatriba lately published to this purpose , to which grotius is likewise very inclinable . the arguments are too large here to examine , although i see not how possibly that place of paul can be avoided , whatever is set in the shambles eat , making no scruple for conscience sak● . i conclude this with what i laid down at the entrance of this treatise , that where any act or law is founded upon a particular reason or occasion as the ground of it , it doth no further oblige then the reason or occasion of it doth continue . therefore before an acknowledged apostolical practice be looked on as obligatory , it must be made appear that what they did , was not according as they saw reason and cause for the doing it , depending upon the several circumstances of time , place , and persons ; but that they did it from some unalterable law of chr●ist , or from some such indispensable reasons , as will equally hold in all times , places , and persons . and so the obligation is taken off from apostolical practice , and laid upon that law and reason which was the ground of it . thirdly , offices that were of apostolical appointment , are grown wholly out of use in the church , without mens looking upon themselvs as bound now to observe them . as the widdows of the churches afterwards from their office called deaconnesses of the church , of which number phoebe was one , whom paul calls the deaconness of the church at cenchrea : so both origen and chrysostome understand it . of them and their continuance in the church for some centuries of years , much is spoken by several writers , and resolved by several councils ; and yet we see these are laid aside by the p●etenders to hold close to apostolical practice : if that binds , certainly it doth in its plain institutions ; if it doth not bind in them ▪ how can it in that which is only gathered but by uncertain conjectures to have been ever their practice ; so that in the issue , those who plead so much for the obligatory nature of apostolical practice , do not think it obligatory ; for if they did , how comes this office of widdows and deaconesses to be neglected ? if it be answered , that these are not usefull now ; then we must say , that we look upon apostolical practice to be binding no further then we judge it useful , or the reason of it holds ; which is as much as to say , of its self it binds not . fourthly , rites and customs apostolical are altered ; therefore men do not think that apostolical practice doth bind . for if it did , there could be no alteration of things agreeable thereunto . now let any one consider but these few particulars , and judge how far the pleaders for a divine right of apostolical practice , do look upon themselves as bound now to observe them : as dipping in baptism , the use of love ▪ feasts , community of goods , the holy kiss , by * tertullian called signa●ulum orationis : yet none look upon themselves as bound to observe them now , and yet all acknowledge them to have been the practice of the apostles : and therefore certainly though when it may serve for their purpose , men will make apostolical practice to found a divine right : yet when they are gone off from the matter in hand , they change their opinion with the matter , and can then think themselves free as to the observation of things by themselves acknowledged to be apostolical . thus we are at last come to the end of this chapter , which we have been the longer upon , because the main hinge of this controversie did ly● in the practice of the apostles , which i suppose now so far cleared as not to hinder our progress towards what remains ; which we hope will admit of a quicker dispatch . we come therefore from the apostles to the primitive church , to see whether by the practice of that we can find any thing whereby they looked on themselves as obliged by an unalterable law to observe any one particular form of church-government . chap. vii . the churches polity in the ages after the apostles considered : evidences thence that no certain unalterable form of church-government was delivered to them . . because church-power did in large as the churches did . whether any metropolitan churches established by the apostles . seven churches of asia , whether metropolitical . philippi no metropolis either in civil or eccl●siastical sense . several degrees of inlargemext of churches . churches first the christians in whole cities , proved by several arguments , the eulogiae an evidence of it . churches extended into the neighbour territories by the preaching there of city presbyters ; thence comes the subordination between then churches by degrees inlarged to diocesses ; from thence to provinces . the original of metropolitans and patriarchs . . no certain form used in all churches . some churches without bishops , scots , goths . some with but one bishop in their whole countrey . scythian , aethiopian churches how governed . many cities without bishops . diocesses much altered . bishops discontinued in several churches for many years . . confor●eing ecclesiastical government to the civil in the extent of diocesses . the suburbicarian churches what . bishops answerable to the civil governours . churches power rises from the greatness of cities . . validity of ordination by presbyters in places where bishops were . the case of ischyras discussed ; instances given of ordination by presbyters not pronounced null . . the churches prudence in managing its affairs , by the several canons , provincial synods , codex canonum . having largely considered the actions of christ , and the practice of the apostles , so far as they are conceived to have reference to the determining the certain form of government in the church ; our next stage is , according to our propounded method , to examine what light the practice of the church in the ages succeeding the apostles will cast upon the controversie we are upon . for although , according to the principles established and ●aid down by us , there can be nothing setled as an universal law for the church but what we find in scriptures : yet because the general practice of the church is conceived to be of ●o great use for understanding what the apostles intentions , as well as actions were , we shall chearfully pass over this rubicon , because not with an intent to increase divisions , but to find out some further evidence of a way to compose them . our inquiry then is , whether the primitive church did conceive its self obliged to observe unalterably one individual form of government , as delivered down to them either by a law of christ , or an universal constitution of the apostles ; or else did only settle and order things for church-government , according as it judged them tend most to the peace and settlement of the church , without any antecedent obligation , as necessarily binding to observe onely one course . this latter i shall endeavour to make out to have been the onely rule and law which the primitive church observed as to church-government , viz. the tendency of its constitutions to the peace and unity of the church ; and not any binding law or practice of christ or his apostles . for the demonstrating of which , i have made choyce of such arguments as most immediately te●d to the proving of it . for , if the power of the church and its officers did encrease meerly from the inlargement of the bounds of churches , if no one certain form were observed in all churches , but great varieties as to officers and diocesses ; if the course used in setling the power of the chief officers of the church was from agreement with the civil government , if notwithstanding the superiority of bishops , the ordination of presbyters was owned as valid ; if in all other things concernning the churches polity , the churches prudence was looked on as a sufficient ground to establish things ; then we may with reason conciude , that nothing can be inferred from the practice of the primitive church ▪ demonstrative of any one fixed form of church-government delivered from the apostles ●o them . having thus by a l●ght 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 drawn ou● the several lines of the pourtraiture of the polity of the antient church , we now proceed to fill them up , though not with that life which it deserves , yet so far as the model of this discourse will permit . our first argument then is from the rise of the extent of the power of church-governours , which i assert not to have been from any order of the apostles , but from the gradual encrease of the churches committed to their charge . this will be best done by the observation of the growth of churches , and how proportionably the power of the governours did increase with it . as to that , there ●re four observable steps or periods , as so many ages of growth in the primitive churches . first , when churches and cities were of the same extent . secondly , when churches took in the adjoyning terri●ories with the villages belonging to the cities . thirdly , when several cities with their villages did associate for church-government in the same province . fourthly , when several provinces did associate for government in the roman empire . of these in their order . the first period of church government observable in the primitive church , was , when churches were the same with christians in whole cities . for the clearing of this , i shall first shew , that the primitive constitution of churches was in a society of christians in the same city . secondly , i shall consider the form and manner of government then observed among them . thirdly , consider what relation the several churches in cities had to one another . first , that the primitive churches were christians of whole cities . it is but a late and novel acception of the word church , whereby it is taken for stated , fixed congregations for publike worship , and doubtless the original of it is only from the distinction of churches in greater cities into their several 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or publike places for meeting , whence the scotch kirk , and our english church ; so that from calling the place church , they proceed to call the persons there meeting by that name ; and thence some think the name of church so appropriated to such a society of christians as may meet at such a place , that they make it a matter of religion not to call those places churches , from whence originally the very name , as we use it , was derived . but this may be pardoned among other the religio●s weaknesses of well meaning , but lesse knowing people . a church in its primary sense , as it answers to the greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , applyed to christians , is a society of christians living together in one city , whether meeting together in many congregations , or one , is not at all material ; because they were not called a church as meeting together in one place , but as they were a society of christians inhabiting together in such a city : not but that i think a society of christians might be called a church , where-ever they were , whether in a city or countrey , but because the first and chief mention we meet with in scripture of churches , is of such as did dwell together in the same cities ; as is evident from many pregnant places of scripture to this purpose . as acts . . compared with titus . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in one place , is the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the other . ordaining elders in every church , and ordaining elders in every city ; which implyes , that by churches then were meant the body of christians residing in the cities : over which the apostles ordained elders to rule them . so acts . . . as they went through the cities , &c. and so were the churches established in the faith . the churches here were the christians of those cities which they went through . so acts . . he sent to ephesus and called the elders of the church . if by the elders we mean , as all those do we now deal with , the elders of ephesus , then it is here evident , that the elders of the church and of the city are all one ; but what is more observable , ver . . he calls the church of that city , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . take heed to your selves , and to the flock over which god hath made you overse●rs , to feed the church of god. where several things are observable to our purpose ; first , that the body of christians in ephesus is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the flock of the church , and not the several flocks and churches , over which god hath made you bishops . secondly , that all these spoken to were such as had a pastoral charge of this one flock ; paul calls them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and chargeth them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to do the work of a pastor towards it . so that either there must be several pastors taking the pastoral charge of one congregation , which is not very suitable with the principles of those i now dispute against ; or else many congregations in one city are all called but one church , and one flock , which is the thing i plead for . and therefore it is an observation of good use to the purpose in hand , that the new test●ment speaking of the churches in a province , alwayes speakes of them in the plural number , as the churches of iudaea , gal. . , thes. ▪ . the churches of sama●i● and galilee , acts . . the churches of syria and c●icia , acts . . the churches of galatia , cor. . . gal , . , . the churches of asia , rom. . . rev. . . but when it speaks of any particular city , then it is alwayes used in the singular number , as the church at jerusalem , acts . . — , . the church at antioch , acts . — . . the church at corinth , cor. . . cor. . ● and so of all the seven churches of asia , the church of ephesus , smyrna , &c. so that we cannot find in scripture the least footstep of any difference between a church and the christians of such a city ; whereas had the notion of a church been restrained to a particular congregation , doubtlesse we should have found some difference as to the scriptures speaking of the several places . for it is scarce imaginable that in all those cities spoken of ( as for example ephesus , where paul was for above two years together ) that there should be no more converts then would make one congregation . accordingly in the times immediately after the apostles , the same language and custom continued still . so clement inscribes his epistle , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the church of god which is at rome , to the church of god which is at corinth . so by that it is plain that all the believers at that time in rome , made up but one church , as likewise did they at corinth . s● polycarp in the epistle written by him from the church at smyrna to the church at phylomilium , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and so in his epistle to the philippians , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . polycarp and the elders with him to the church which is at philippi . origen compares the church of god at athens , corinth , alexandria , and o●her places , with the people of those several cities ; and so the churches senate with the peoples , and the churches 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( that is his word ) chief ruler , with the maior of those cities , implying thereby that as there was one civil society in such places to make a city , so there was a society of christians incorporated together to make a church . so that a church setled with a full power belonging to it , and exerc sing all acts of church-discipline within its self , was antiently the same with the society of christians in a city . not but that the name church is attributed sometimes to families , in which sense tertullian speaks , ubi duo aut tres sunt , ibi ecclesia est , licet laici : and may on the same account be attributed to a small place , such as many imagine the church of cenchrea to be , it being a port to corinth on the sinus sarònicus ; but stephanus byzantinus calls it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . suidas saith no more of it then that it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . strabo and pausanias only speak of the scituation of it , as one of the po●ts of corinth , lying in the way from tegaea to argos ; nor is any more said of it by pliny , then that it answers to lechaeum , the port on the other side upon the sinus corinthiacus . ubbo emmius in his description of old greece , calls both of them oppidula duo cum duobus praeclaris portubus in ora utriusq , maris , but withall adds that they were duo urbis emporia , the two marts of corinth ; therefore in probability , because of the great merchandise of that city , they were much frequented . cenchrea was about twelve furlongs distance from corinth ; where pareus conjectures the place of the meeting of the church of corinth was , because of the troubles they met with in the city , and therefore they retired thither for greater conveniency and privacy : which conjecture will appear not to be altogether improbable , when we consider the furious opposition made by the iews against the christians at corinth , acts . . and withall , how usual it was both for jews and christians to have their place of meeting at a distance from the city . as acts . . they went out from philippi to the river side , where there was a proseucha , or a place of prayer , where the iews of philippi accustomed to meet . according to this interpretation the church at cenchrea is nothing else but the church of corinth there assembling : as the reformed church at paris hath their meeting place at charenton , which might be called the church of charenton from their publick assemblies there , but the church of paris from the residence of the chief officers and people in that city . so the church of corinth might be called the church at cenchrea upon the same account , there being no evidence at all of any setled government there at cenchrea distinct from that at corinth . so that this place which is the only one brought against that position i have laid down hath no force at all against it . i conclude then , that churches and cities were originally of equal extent , and that the formal constitution of a church lyes not in their capacity of assembling in one place , but acting as a society of christians imbodyed together in one city , having officers and rulers among themselves , equally respecting the whole number of believers : which leads to the second thing , the way and manner then used for the modelling the government of these churches , which may be considered in a double period of time , either before several congregations in churches were setled , or after those we now call parishes , were divided . first , before distinct congregations were setled ; and this as far as i can find , was not only during the apostles times , but for a competent time after , generally during the persecution of churches . for we must distinguish between such a number of believers as could not conveniently assemble in one place , and the distributing of believers into their several distinct congregations . i cannot see any reason but to think that in the great churches of ierusalem , antioch , ephesus , and the like , there were more believers then could well meet together , considering the state of those times ; but that they were then distributed into their several 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or centuries ( as the athenians , and romans divided their people ) i. e. into several worshipping congregations with peculiar officers , i see no reason at all for it . they had no such conveniences then of setling several congregations under their particular pastors : but all the christians in a city looked upon themselves as one body , and met together as occasion served them , where either the chief of the governours of the church , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in iustin martyrs language , did perform the solemn part of divine worship , or some other of the elders that were present with them . is it not strange for men to dream of set-times , and canonical hours , and publike places of assemblies at that time , when their chief times of meeting were in the night , or very early in the morning , which pliny . calls conventus antelucanus , whence they were called latebrosa & lucifugax natio ; and were fain to make use of wax-lights : ( which from that custome the papists continue still in their tapers alwayes burning upon the altar ; from what reason i know not , unless to shew the darkness of error and superstition which that church lyes under still ) and the places of the christians meetings were generally either some private rooms , or some grotts or cryptae , vaults under ground where they might be least discerned or taken notice of ; or in the coemeteria , the martyrum memoriae , as they called them , where their common assemblies were . thence pontius paulinus , speaking of the edict of valerian against the christians , iussum est ut nulla conciliabula faciant , neque coemeteria ingrediantur . indeed , when they had any publick liberty granted them , they were so mindful of their duties of publick profession of the faith , as to make use of publick places for the worship of god , as appears by lampridius in the life of alexander s●verus quum christiani quendam locum qui publicus fuerat occupassent , contrà popinarii dicerent , sibi cum deberi ; rescripsit , melius esse ut quom●docunque illic deus colatur , quam popinariis dedatur . but in times of persecution it is most improbable that there should be any fixed congregations and places , when the christians were so much hunted after , and inquired for , as appears by the former epistle of pliny , and the known rescript of trajan upon it , so much exagitated by tertullian . they did meet often it is certain , ad confaederandum disciplinam , at which meetings tertullian tells us , praesident probati quique seniores , which he elsewhere explains by consessus ordi●is , the bench of officers in the church , which did in common consult for the good of the church , without any cantonizing the christians into severall distinct and fixed congregations . but after that believers were much increased , and any peace or liberty obtained , they then began to contrive the distribution of the work among the several officers of the church , and to settle the several bounds over which every presbyter was to take his charge ; but yet so , as that every presbyter retained a double aspect of his office ▪ the one particular to his charge ; the other generall respecting the church in common . for it is but a weak conceit to imagine that after the setling of congregations , every one had a distinct presbytery to rule it , which we find not any obseure footsteps of in any of the ancient churches ; but there was still one ecclesiastical senate which ruled all the several congregations of those cities in common , of which the several presbyters of the congregations were members , and in which the bishop acted as the president of the senate , for the better governing the affairs of the church . and thus we find cornelius at rome sitting there cum florentissimo clero : thus cyprian at carthage , one who pleads as much as any for obedience to bishops , and yet none more evident for the presence and joint concurrence and assistance of the clergy at all church debates ; whose resolution from his first entrance into his b●shoprick , was , to do all things communi concilio clericorum , with the common-council of the clergy ; and sayes , they were cum episcopo sacerdotali honore conjuncti . victor at rome decreed easter to be kept on the lords day , collatione facta cum presbyteris & diaconibus ( according to the latine of that age ) as damasus the supposed authour of the lives of the popes tells us . in the proceedings against novatus at rome , we have a clear testimony of the concurrence of presbyters : where a great synod was called , as e●sebius expresseth it , of sixty bishops , but more presbyters ▪ and deacons : and what is more full to our purpose , not onely the several presbyters of the city , but the country pastours ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) did likew●se give their advice about that business . at this time cornelius tells us there were forty six presbyters in that one city of rome , who concurred with him in condemning novatus . so at antioch in the case of paulus samosatenus we find a synod gathered , consisting of bishops , presbyters and deacons , and in their name the synodal epistle is penned and directed to the same in all the catholick church ; at the council of eliberis in spain , were present but ninteen bishops and twenty six presbyters . the case between sylvanus bishop of cirta in africk , and nundinaris the deacon , was referred by purpuriu● to the clergy to decide it , for the presence of presbyters at synods , instances are brought 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by blondel in his apology . and that they concurred in governing the church , and not onely by their counsel but authority , appears from the general sense of the church of god , even when episcopacy was at the highest : nazianzen speaking of the office of presbyters , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he knew not whether to call it , ministry or superintendency , and those who are made presbyters 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , from being ruled , they ascend to be rulers themselves , and their power by him , is in several places ▪ called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . they are called by him , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . chrysostome gives this as the reason of pauls passing over from bishops to deacons without naming presbyters , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . because there is no great matter of difference between a bishop and presbyters , for these likewise have the instruction and charge of the church committed to them ; which words theophylact , chrysostomes eccho , repeats after him , which the council of aquen thus expresseth , presbyterorum verô qui praesunt ecclesi● christi ministerium esse videtur , ut in doctrina praesint populis & in officio praedicandi , nec in aliquo desides inv●nti appareant . clemens alexandrinus before all these , speaking of himself and his fellow-presbyters , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . we are pastors , and rulers of the churches . and that proper acts of discipline were performed by them , appears both by the epistles of the roman clergy about their preserving discipline to cyprian , and likewise by the act of that clergy in excluding marcion from communion with them . so the presbyters of the church of ephesus excommunicated noetus ; for after they had cited him before them , and found him obstinate in his heresie , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they put both him and his disciples out of the church together . thus we see what the manner of government in the church was now : the bishop sitting as the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the sanhedrin , and the presbyters 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as ignatius expresseth it , acting as the common-council of the church to the bishop ; the bishop being as the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , answering to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the presbytery as the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , answering to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as origen compares them . whereby he fully describes the form of government in his time in the church , which was by an ecclesiastical senate , and a president in it , ruling the society of christians in every city . so that the presbytery of a great city joyning together for government , were never accounted a provincial assembly , but onely the senate for government of the church in the whole city . the erecting presbyteries for every particular congregation in a city , is a stranger to the ancient constitution of churches , and hath given the greatest rise to the independency of particular congregations . for if every particular congregation be furnished with a government within its self , then men are apt presently to think that there is no necessity of subordination of it to any higher church-power . whereas , if that p●imitive constitution of churches be held , that they are societies of christians under an ecclesiastical senate in a city ▪ then it is evident that the congregations must truck●e under the great body , as receiving their government by , and their officers from that senate of the church , which superintends , and orders the affairs of that whole body of christians residing in such a place . and this crumbling of church-power into every congregation is a thing absolutely disowned by the greatest , and most learned patrons of presbytery beyond the seas as may be seen both in calvin , b●za , salmasius , blondel , gersome , bucer and others . it is much disputed when the first division of parochiall congregations in cities began ; platina attributes it to evaristus , and so doth damasus , hic titulos in urbe roma divisit presbyteris . he divided the several parish churches to the presbyters ; these were called then tituli : baronius gives a double reason of the name ; either from goods belonging to the princes exc●equer , which have some sign imprinted , upon them that it may be known whose they are ; so , saith he , the sign of the cross was put upon the churches to make it known that they were devoted to gods service ; or else they are called tituli , because the severall presbyters did receive their titles from them ; but , by the leave of the great cardinal , another reason may be given of the name more proper then either of these . it hath been observed by learned men , that the generall meetings of the christians were in the coemeteria or dormitories of christians ; so they called the sepulchres then , which were great and capacious vaults fit to receive many people in them ; two chief grounds of the christians meeting in those places : the first was their own security , because the heathens looked on it as a matter of religion — manes temerare sepultos , to disturb the ashes of the dead ; but the chief reason was to encourage themselves to suffe● martyrdom by the examples of those who had gone before them , and lay buried there ; thence they were called martyrum memoriae , because they did call to mind their actions and constancy in the faith. now from these coemeteria was afterwards the original of churches ( whence persons most reverenced for piety , were wont still to be buried in churches , not for any holiness of the place , but because in such places the martyrs lay buried ) the churches being raised over the vaults wherein the martyra lay intombed . now churches being raised from these coemeteries , which were called memoriae martyrum , that they might still retain somwhat intimating their former use , were called tituli . for titulus , as santius observes , is signum aliquod aut monumentum quod docet ibi latere aliquid aut accidisse , cujus nolumus perire memoriam ; thence statues are called tituli . so gen. . . erexit iacob titulum super sepulchrum , as the vulgar latine renders it : and gen. . . surgens ergo iacob mane tulit lapidem quem su●posuerat capiti suo , & erexit in titulum . so absalom sam. . . erexit sibi titulum . so that what was erected to maintain and preserve the memory of any thing , was called titulus ; and thence the churches being built upon the coemiteries of the martyrs , were on that account called tituli , because intended for the preservation of their memories . this account of the original of the name i leave to the judgement of learned men ; but to proceed . i confess , it seems not probable to me that these tituli were so soon divided as the time of evaristus , who lived in the time of trajan when the persecution was hot against the christians ; but damasus seems not to believe himself ; for in the life of dionysius , ●e saith , hic presbyteris ecclesias divisit , coemeteria , paroecias , & dioeceses instituit ; but most probably it began assoon as the churches enjoyed any ease and peace , it being so necessary for the convenient meeting of such a multitude of christians as there was then . in the life of marcellus about fourty years after dionysius , we read of twenty five titles in the church of rome ; of which number what use is made for interpreting the number . may be seen in mr. potters ingenuous tract on that subject . but when afterwards these titles were much increased , those presbyters that were placed in the ancient titles which were the chief among them , were called cardinales presbyteri , which were then looked on as chief of the clergy , and therefore were the chief members of the council of presbyters to the bishop . so that at this day , the conclave at rome and the pope's consistory is an evident argument in this great degeneracy of it , of the primitive constitution of the government of the church there , by a bishop acting with his colledge of presbyters . neither was this proper to rome alone , but to all other great cities , which when the number of presbyters was grown so great , that they could not conveniently meet , and joyn with the bishop , for ordering the government of the church , there were some as the chief of them chosen out from the rest , to be as the bishops council , and these in many places , as at milan , ravenna , naples , &c. were called cardinales presbyteri , as well as at rome ; which were abrogated by pius quintus ▪ but the memory of them is preserved still in cathedral churches , in the chapter there , where the dean was nothing else but the archipresbyt●r , and both dean and prebendaries were to be assistant to the bishop in the regulating the church-affairs belonging to the citie , while the churches were contained therein . so much shall suffice for the model of government in the churches , while they were contained within the same precincts with the city its self . we come in the third place to consider what relation these churches in greater cities had one to another , and to the lesser cities which were under them . and here the grand question to be discussed is this . whether the churches in greater cities by apostolical institution , had the government ecclesiastical , not ▪ only of the lesser villages under them , but likewise of all lesser cities under the civil jurisdiction of the metropolis . the affirmative is of late asserted by some persons of great renown and learning . the first i find maintaining this hypothesis ▪ of the divine right of metropolitans , is fregevilaeus gantius one of the reformed church of france , who hath spent a whole chapter in his palma christian● to that purpose , and hath made use of the same arguments which have been since improved by all the advantages which the learning of a reverend dr● could add to them . but because this principle manifestly destroyes the main foundation of this discourse , it is here requisite to examine the grounds on which it stands , that thereby it may be fully cleared whether the subordination of less churches to greater , did onely arise from the mutual association of churches among themselves , or from apostolical appointment and institution . the two pillars which the divine right of metropolitans is built upon , are these . first , that the cities spoken of in the new testament , in which churches are planted , were metropoles in the civil sense . secondly , that the apostles did so far follow the model of the civil government as to plant metropolitan churches in those cities . if either of these prove infirm , the fabrick erected upon them , must needs fall ; and i doubt not but to make it appear that both of them are . i begin with the first . the notion of a metropolis is confessed to be this , a city wherein the courts of a civill judicature were kept by the roman governours , under whose jurisdiction the whole province was contained . the cities chiefly insisted on , are the seven cities of the lydian asia , and philippi which is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . as for the cities of the proconsular asia , although the bounds and limits of it are not so clear as certainly to know whether all these cities were comprehended under it or no , strabo telling us that phrygia , lydia , caria and mysia , are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , very hard to be distinguished from one another ; it being true of all four which was said of mysia and phrygia , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the phrygian and mysian borders are distinct ; but it i● is hard to find them out ▪ for laodicea is by ptolomy referred to caria ; strabo and many others , place it in phrygia , onely stephanus bizantinus placeth it in lydia ; but granting all that is produced by the late most excellent primate of armagh in his learned discourse of the proconsular asia , to prove all these seven cities to be in the bounds of this lydian asia ; yet it is far from being evident that all these cities were metropoles in the civil sense . for strabo tells us , that the romans did not divide these places by nations ; ●but according to the dioc●sses wherein they kept their courts , and exercised judicature . these cities wherein the courts of judicature were kept , were the metropoles , and no other . of five of them , laodicea , smyrna , sardis , ephesus and pergamus , pliny saith , that the conventus , the civil courts , were kept in them : and they had jurisdiction over the other places by him mentioned ; but for the other two , thyatira and philadelphia , philadelphia is expresly mentioned as one of those cities which was under the jurisdictio sardiana ; so far was it from being a metropoles of its self ; and thyatira mentioned as one of the ordinary cities , without any addition of honour at all to it . and for philadelphia , it was so ●ar unlikely to be a metropolis , that strabo tells us it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; very subject to earth-quakes , and therefore had very few inhabitants ; those that ●●● , live most part in the fields , where they have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a very rich soil : but strabo for all that , wonders at the boldness of the men that durst to venture their lives there ; and most of all admires what was in those mens heads who first built a city there . is it then any wayes probable that this should be chosen for a metropolis , in such an abundance of fair and rich cities as lay thereabout ? but a salvo is found out for plinyes not mentioning them as metropoles , because the addition of these two mother cities , seemeth to have been made when vespasian added those many new provinces to the old government which su●tonius speaks of ; but this salvo doth not reach the sore : for first , pliny wrote his natural history , not in the beginning , but toward the latter end of the empire of flavius vespasianus , when titus had been six times consul ●s he himself saith in his preface ; therefore if there had been any such change , pliny would have mentioned it . secondly , the provinces added by vespasian , are expresly set down by su●●oniu● ▪ viz. achaia , lysia ▪ rhodus , byzantium , samos , thracia , cilivia ▪ comagena , not the least mention of the lydian or proco●sular asia , or any alteration made in the metropolis there . but yet there is a further attempt made to make philadelphia a metropolis , which is from a subscription of eustathius in the council of constantinople sub menna , act . who calls himself the bishop of the metropolis of philadelphia ; but what validity there is in such a subscription in the time of the fifth century to prove a metropolis in the first , l●t any one judge that doth but consider how common ● thing it was to alter metropoles , especially after the new disposition of the roman empire by constantin● : but if we do stand to the notiti● to determine this controversie , which are certainly more to be valued then a single subscription , the metropolitanship of these cities of the lydian asia will be irrecoverably overthrown . for in the old notitia , taken out of the vatican ms. and set forth with the rest by caro●●●● sancto-paulo in his appendix to his geographia sacra , ephesus is made the metropolis of the province of asia , sardis of lydia , laodicea of phrygia capatiana , as it is there written for pacatiana , but pergamus placed in the province of caesarla cappadocia , philadelphia under sardis , with thyatyra ▪ in the notitia attributed to hier●cl●s under the metropolis of ephesus is placed smyrna and pergamu● , under sardi● , thyatyra and philadelphia , so likewise in the notitia of the french kings library . so that neither in the civil no● ecclesiastical sense can we find these seven cities to be all metropoles . we therefore observe st. pauls course , and leaving asia , we come into macedonia , where we are told , that philippi was the metropolis of macedonia : i know not whether with greater incongruity to the civil or ecclesiastical sense : in ●oth which i doubt not but to make it appear , that philippi was not the metropolis of macedonia , and therefore the bishops there mentioned could not be the bishops of the several cities under the jurisdiction of philippi , but must be understood of the bishops resident in that city . we begin with it in the civil sense ▪ which is the foundation of the other . it is confessed not to have been a metropolis during its being called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it being by pausanias called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . by theophylact out of an old geographer ( as it is supposed ) it is said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and is it not very improbable that so small a city , as it is acknowledged to be by dio and others , should be the metropolis of macedonia , where were at least one hundred and fifty cities , as pliny and pomponius mela tell us ; by bo●h whom philippi is pl●ced in thracia , and not in macedonia , but two arguments are brought to prove philippi to have been a metropolis ; the first is from st. luke , calling it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , acts . . the first city of that part of macedonia : but rendred by the learned doctor , the prime city of the province of macedonia ; but it would be worth knowing where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in all the notitiae of the roman empire was translated a province ; and it is evident that luke calls it the first city , not ratione dignitatis , but ratione 〈◊〉 , in regard of its scituation , and not its dignity . so camerarius understands luke , hanc esse primam coloniam pa●tis seu plagae macedonicae ; nimirum a thracia vicinia iter in macedoniam ordiens . it is the first city of that part of macedonia , when one goes from thracia into it . and ▪ so it appears by dio , describing the scituation of philippi , that it was the next town to neapolis , only the mountain symbolon comeing between them , and neapolis being upon the shore , and philippi built up in the plain near the mountain pangaeus , where brutus and cassius incamped themselves : its being then the first city of entrance into macedonia , proves no more that it was the metropolis of macodonia , then that calice is of france , or dover of england . but it is further pleaded , that philippi was a colonie , and therefore it is most probable that the seat of the roman judicature was there . but to this i answer , first , that philippi was not the only colonie in macedonia ; for pliny reckons up cassandria , paria ▪ and others : for which we must understand that macedonia was long since made a province by paulus : and in the division of the roman provinces by augustus , strabo reckons it with illyricum among the provinces belonging to the roman people and senate , and so likewise doth dio. but it appears by suetonius , that tiberius ( according to the custom of the roman emperours in the danger of war in the provinces , ) took it into his own hands , but it was re●urned by claudius to the senat● again , together with achaia : thence dio speaking of macedonia in the time of tiberius , saith , it was governed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is , by those who were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; the praefecti casaris , such as were sent by the emperour to be his presidents in the provinces , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were the proconsuli , who were chosen by lot after their consulship into the several provinces ▪ and therefore dio expresseth claudius his returning macedonia into the senates hands by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he put it to the choyce of the senate again . now macedonia having been thus long a province o● the roman empire , what probability is there , because philippi was a colonie , therefore it must be the metropolis of macedonia ? secondly , we find not the least evidence either in scripture or elsewhere ▪ that the proconsul of macedonia had his residence at philippi , yea , we have some evidence against it out of scripture ▪ acts , , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and brought them to the magistrates ▪ if there had been the tribunal of a proconsul here , we should certainly have had it ment●oned , as gallio proconsul of achaia is mentioned in a like case at corinth , acts . . two sorts of magistrates are here expressed : the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which seem to be the rulers of the city , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to be the duumviri of the colonie , or else the deputies of the proconsul residing there ▪ but i incline rather to the former , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being only a duumvir ▪ but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a praetor ▪ as heinsius observes from the glossary of h. stephen . for every colonie had a duumvirate to rule it , answering to the consuls and praetors at rome . but all this might have been spared , when we consider how evident it is that thessalonica was the metropolis of macedonia , as appears by antipater in the greek epigram . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the praefectus pr●torio illy●ici had 〈…〉 dence a● th●ssalonica , as theodore● tells us , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c ▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . th●ssalonica was a great populous city , where the leiutenant of illyricum did reside ▪ and so in probability did the vi●arius macedonia . it is called the metropolis of macedonia likewise by socr●●●s , and in the ecclesiastical sense it is so called by aetius the bishop thereof in the council of sardica● and carolus à sancto paulo , thinks it was not only the metropolis of the province of macedonia , but of the whole diocè●s ( which in the east was much larger then the province ) ▪ i suppose he means that which answered to the v●carius macedoniae . and thence in the councils of ephesus and chalcedon , the subscription of the bishop of th●ssalonic● wa● next to the patriarchs . but for philippi the same author acknowledgeth it not to have been a metropolitan church in the first six centuries ; but , after that macedonia was divided into prima and secunda ( which was after the div●sion of it in the empire into prima and salutaris ) then philippi came to have the honorary title of a metropolitan : although in hierocles his notitia , philippi is placed as the twenty first city under the metropoles of th●ssalonica . so much to evidence the weakness of the first pillar , viz. that these cities were metropoles in the civil sense : and this being taken away , the other falls of its self ; for if the apostles did model the ecclesiastical government according to the civil , then metropolitan churches were planted only in metropolitan cities , and these being cleared not to have been the latter , it is evident they were not the former . but however , let us see what evidence is brought of such a subordination of all other churches to the metropolitans , by the institution of the apostles . the only evidence produced out of scripture for such a subordination and dependance of the churches of lesser cities upon the greater , is from act● . , compared with acts . . the argument runs thus : the question was started at antioch , acts . . with acts . . from thence they sent to ierusalem for a resolution : the decree of the council there concerns not only a●tioch , but syria and cilicia , which were under the jurisdiction of antioch : and therefore metropolitan church 〈…〉 e jure divino . i am afraid the argument would sc 〈…〉 ow its self in the dress of a syllogism . thus it runs ; if upon the occasion of the question at antioch , the decree of the apostles made at ierusalem , concern all the churches of syria , and cilicia , then all these churches had a dependance upon the metropolis of antioch , but the an●ecedent is true , therefore the consequent . let us see how the argument will do in another ●orm . if upon the occasion of the question at antioch , the decree of the apostles concerned all the churches of christians conversing with jews ; then all these churches had dependance upon the church of antioch ; but , &c. how thankfull would the papists have been , if onely rome had been put instead of antioch● and then the conclusion had been true , what ever the premises were . but in good earnest , doth the churches of syria and cilicia being bound by this decree , prove their subordination to antioch , or to the apostles ? were they bound because antioch was their metropolis , or because they were the apostles who resolved the question ? but were not the churches of phrygia , and galatia , bound to observe these decrees as well as others ? for of these it is said , that the apostles went through the cities of them , delivering the decrees to keep , as it is expressed ▪ acts . . compared with the . verse . or do the decrees of the apostles concern only those to whom they are inscribed , and upon whose occasion they are penned ? then by the same reason pauls epistles being written many of them upon occasions , as that to the corinthians being directed to the metropolis of corinth , doth only concern the church of that city , and those of achaia that were subject to the jurisdiction of the city ; and so for the rest of the epistles . a fair way to make the word of god of no effect to us ; because for sooth , we live not in obedience to those metropoles to which the epistles were directed ! from whence we are told , how many things we may understand by this notion of metropolitans : especially why ignatius superscribes his epistle to the romans , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to the church which pre●ides in the place of the roman region , or the suburbicari●n provinces . but let us see whether this place may not be understood better without the help of this notion . casaubon calls it locutionem barbar●m ; vedelius is more favourable to it , and thinks si non elegans saltem vi●ii libera est , and explains it by the suburbicarian provinces : and makes the sense of it to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the place which is the roman region , and parallels it with the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , luke . . bellarmine thinks he hath ●ound the popes universal power in his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but methinks the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , should hardly be rendred orbis universus , unless bellarmine were no more skil'd in greek , then casaubon thinks he was , whom he calls in the p●ace forecited , hominem graecarum literarum prorsus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the most ingenuous conjecture concerning this place , is that of our learned mr. thorndike . the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith he , is here used as many times besides , speaking of those places which a man would neither call cities nor towns , as acts . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being to sail by the places of asia ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it is plain it signifies the countrey ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , then must necessarily signifie here the vaticane lying in the fields as a suburb to rome , and being the place where st. peter was buried , and where the iews of rome then dw●lt , as we learn by philo , legatione ad caium , out of whom he produceth a large place to that purpose , and so makes this the church of the jewish christians , the vaticane being then the iewry of rome ; but there being no clear evidence of any such distinction of churches there , and as little reason why ignatius should write to the church of the jewish christians , and not to the church of the gentile christians , i therefore embrace his sense of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the vatican , but explain it in another way , viz. as we have already shewed , that the chief places of meeting for the christians in gentile ▪ rome , was in the coemeteries of the martyrs ; now these coemeteria were all of them without the city ; and the coemeteria where peter , linus , cletus , and some other of the primitive martyrs lay interr'd in the vatican , beyond the river tiber. so damasus in the life of cletus , qui etiam sepultus est juxta corpus b. petri in vaticano . the church then in the p●ace of the region of the romans , is the christian-church of rome , assembling chiefly in the coemeteries of the vatican , or any other of those vaults which were in the fields at a good distance from the city . but yet there is one argument more for metropolitans ▪ and that is from the importance of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is taken to signifie both the city and countrey ; and so the inscription of clemens his epistle is explained , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. the church of god dwelling about rome , to the church dwelling about corinth , whereby is supposed to be comprehended the whole territories , which ( being these were metropoles ) takes in the whole province . and so polycarp , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but all this ariseth from a mistake of the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which signifies not so much accolere as incolere : and therefore the old latin version renders it , eccl●siae dei quae est philippis , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , one that removes from one city to sojourn in another . and the ground of attributing that name to the christian churches , was either because that many of the first christians being jews , they did truly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being as strangers out of their own countrey , or else among the christians , because by reason of their continual persecutions , they were still put in mind of their flitting uncertain condition in the world , their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , countrey , citizenship being in heaven . of this the apostles often tell them : from hence i● came to signifie the society of such christians so living together ; which as it encreased , so the notion of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 encreased , and so went from the city into the countrey , and came not from the countrey into the city ; for , if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should be taken for accolere , then it necessarily follows , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cannot signifie the church of rome , and the territories belonging to it , but the church adjacent to rome , distinct from the citie , and the church in it . for in that sense 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is opposed to living in the city , and so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are distinct from the citizens , as in thucydides and others ; but , i believe no instance can possibly be produced wherein 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , taken in that sense , doth comprehend in it both city and country . but being taken in the former sense , it was first applyed to the whole church of the city : but when the church of the city did spread it self into the countrey , then the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 comprehended the christians , both in city and countrey adjoyning to it . which leads me to the second step of christian churches , when churches took in the villages and territories adjoyning to the cities : for which we must understand , that the ground of the subordination of the villages and territories about , did primarily arise from hence , that the gospel was spread abroad from the several cities into the countreys about . the apostles themselves preachedmost , as we read in scripture , in the cities , because of the great resort of people thither ; there they planted churches , and setled the government of them in an ecclesiastical senate , which not only took care for the government of churches already constituted , but for the gathering more . now the persons who were employed in the conversion of the adjacent territories , being of the clergy of the city , the persons by them converted were adjoyned to the church of the city ; and all the affairs of those lesser churches were at first determined by the governours of the city ; afterwards when these churches encreased , and had peculiar officers set over them by the senate of the city-church , although these did rule and govern their flock , yet it alwayes was with a subordination to , and dependance upon the government of the city-church . so that by this means , he that was president of the senate in the city , did likewise superintend all the churches planted in the adjoyning territories , which was the original of that which the greeks call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; the latins , the diocess of the bishop . the church where the bishop was peculiarly resident with the clergy , was called matrix ecclesia , and cathedra principali● , as the several parishes which at first were divided according to the several regions of the city , were called tituli , and those planted in the territories about the city , called paroeciae , when they were applyed to the presbyters ; but when to the bishop , it noted a diocess : those that were planted in these country-parishes , were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by the greeks , and by the latins , presbyteri regionarii , conregionales , forastici , ruri● agrorum presbyteri , from whom the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were distinct , as evidently appears by the thirteenth canon of the council of neocaesarea ▪ where the countrey presbyters are forbidden to administer the lords supper in the presence of the bishop on the presbyters of the city ; but the chorepiscopi were allowed to do it . salmasiu● thinks these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were so called , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the episcopi villani , such as were only presbyters , and were set over the churches in villages : but though they were originally presbyters , yet they were ●aised to some higher authority over the rest of the presbyters , and the original of them seems to be , that when churches were so much multiplyed in the countreys adjacent to the cities , that the bishop in his own person could not be present to oversee the actions and carriages of the several presbyters of the countrey churches , then they ordained some of the fittest in their several dioceses to super intend the several presbyters lying remore from the city ; from which office of theirs they were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : because they did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , go about , and visit the several churches . this is the account given of them by beza and blondel , as well as others . all those several places that were converted to the saith by the assistance of the presbyters of the city , did all make but one church with the city . whereof we have this twofold evidence ▪ first , from the eulogi● which were at first parcels of the bread consecrated for the lords supper , which were sent by the deacons or ac●luthi to those that were absent , in token of their communion in the same church . iustin martyr is the first who acquaints us with this custome of the church ; after , saith he , the president of the assembly hath consecrated the bread and wine , the deacons stand ready to distribute it to every one person , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and carry it to those that are absent . damascus attributes the beginning of this custome to miltiades bishop of rome . hic fecit ut oblationes consecrat● per ecclesias ex consecratione episcopi dirigerentur : quod declaratur fermentum . so innocentius ad decentium ; de fermento verò quod die dominica per titulos mittimus , &c. ut se à nostra communione maxime illa die non judicent separa●os● whereby it appears to have been the custome of rome and other places to send from the cathedral church , the bread consecrated to the several parish-churches , to note their joint-communion in the faith of the gospel . neither was it sent only to the several tituli in the city , but to the villages round about , as appears by the question propounded by d●centius ; although at rome it seems they sent it only to the churches within the city , as appears by the answer of innocentius : but albaspinus takes it for granted , as a general custome upon some set-dayes to send these eulogi● through the whole diocess . nam cum per vicos & agros sparsi & diffus● , ex ●adem non p●ssint sumere communione , cuperentque s●mper union is christian● , & christi corporis speciem quam p●ssint maximam r●tinere , sol●●nissimis di●bus & festivis ex matrice per parochias , bene dictus mit●ebatur panis , ex ●ujus p●rceptione communitas quae inter omnes fideles ●jusdem d●oecesis intercedere debet , intelligebatur & repraesentabatur . surely then the diocesses were not very large ; i● all the several parishes could communicate on the same day with what was sent from the cathedral church . afterwards they sent not part of the bread of the lords-supper , but some other in analogy to that , to denote their mutual contesseration in the saith and communion in the same church ▪ secondly , it appears that still they were of the same church , by the presence of the clergy of the countrey , or the choyce of the bishop of the city , and at ordinations and in councils . so at the choyce of boniface , relictis singuli titulis suis presbyteri omnes aderunt qui voluntatem suam ▪ hoc est d●i judicium , proloquantur : whereby it is evident that all the clergy had their voyces in the choyce of the bishop . and therefore pope l●o requires these things as necessary to the ordination of a bishop , subscriptio clericorum , honoratorum testimonium . ordinis consensus & plebis : and in the same chapter speaking of the choyce of the bishop , he saith it was done subscribentibus plus minus septuagint● presbyteris . and therefore it is observed , that all the clergy con●urred to the choyce even of the bishop of rome , till after the time of that hildebrand called greg. . in whose time popery came to age : thence casaubon calls it haeresin hildebrandinam . cornelius bishop of rome was chosen clericoram pene omnium testimonio ; and in the council at rome under sylv●ster it is decreed , that none of the clergy should be ordained , nisi cum tota adunata ecclesia . many instances are brought from the councils of carthage to the same purpose , which i pass over as commonly known . it was accounted the matter of an accusation against chrysostom by his enemies , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that he ordained without the council and assistance of his clergy . the p●esence of the clergy at councils hath been already shewed . thus we see how , when the church of the city was enlarged into the countrey , the power of the governours of the churches in the city was extended with it . the next step observable in the churches encrease , was , when several of these churches lying together in one province did associate one with another . the primitive church had a great eye to the preserving unity among all the members of it , and thence they kept so strict a correspondency among the several bishops in the commercium formatarum ( the formula of writing , which to prevent deceit , may be seen in iustellus his notes on the codex canonum ecclesiae africanae ) and for a maintaining of nearer correspondency among the bishops themselves of a province , it was agreed among themselves for the better carrying on of their common work , to call a provincial synod twice every year to debate all causes of concernment there among themselves , and to agree upon such wayes as might most conduce to the advancing the common interest of christianity . of these tertullian speaks ; aguntur praecept● per gracias illas certis in locis concilia ex universis eccles●is , per quae & altiora quaeque in communi tractantur , & ipsa repraesentatio nominis christiani magna v●neratione celebratur . of these the thirty eighth canon apostolical ( as it is called ) expresly speaks , ( which canons , though not of authority sufficient to ground any right upon , may yet be allowed the place of a testimony of the practice of the primitive church , especially towards the third century ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . twice a year a synod of bishops was to be kept for discussing matters of faith , and resolving matters of practice . to the same purpose the council of ▪ antioch , a. d. ▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . to these councils ; the presbyters and deacons came , as appears by that canon of the council of antioch ; and in the seventh canon of the nicene council by alphon us pisanus the same custome is dec●eed ▪ but no such thing occurrs in the codex canonum , either of tilius or iustellus his edition ▪ and the arabick edi●●●● of that council is conceived to have been compiled above four hundred years after the council set . but however , we see evidence enough of this practice of celebrating provincial synods twice a year ; now in the assembling of these bishops together for mutual counsel in their affairs , there was a necessity of some order to be observed . there was no difference as to the power of the bishops themselves , who had all equal authority in their several churches , and none over one another . for , episcopatus unus ●st cujus ● singulis in solidum pars tenetur , as cyprian speaks ; and as ierome , ubicunq , episcopus fuerit , sive romae , sive eugubii , sive constantinopoli , sive r●egii , sive alexandriae , sive tanis , ejusdem est meriti ▪ ejusdem est & sacerdotii . potentia divitiarum & paupertatis humilitas , vel sublimiorem vel inferiorem episcopum non facit : caterum omnes apostolorum successores sunt . there being then no difference between them , no man calling himself episcopum episcoporum , as cyprian elsewhere speaks , some other way must be found out to preserve order among them , and to moderate the affairs of the councils ; and therefore it was determined in the council of antioch , that he that was the bishop of the metropolis , should have the honour of metropolitan among the bishops , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because of the great confluence of people to that city , therefore he should have the pr●heminence above the rest . we see how far they are from attributing any divine right to metropolitaus ; and therefore the rights of metropolitans are called by the sixth canon of the nicene council , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which had been a dishonourable introduction for the metropolitan rights , had they thought them grounded upon apostolical institution . nothing more evident in antiquity then the honour of metropolitans depending upon their sees ; thence when any cities were raised by the emperour to the honour of metropoles , their bishop became a metropolitan , as is most evident in iustiniana prima , and for it ▪ there are canons in the councils decreeing it ; but of this more afterwards . the chief bishop of africa was only called primae sedis episcop 〈…〉 ▪ thence we have a canon in the codex ecclesiae african● ▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . that the bishop of the chief see , should not be called the exarch of the priests , or chief priest , or any thing of like nature , but only the bishop of the chief seat . therefore it hath been well observed that the african churches did retain longest the primitive simplicity and humility among them ; and when the voyce was said to be heard in the church upon the flowing in of riches , hodie venenum effusum est in ecclesiam , by the working of which poyson the spirits of the prelates began to swell with pride and ambition ( as is too evident in church history ) only africa escaped the infection most , and resisted the tyrannical incroachments of the roman bishop , with the greatest magnanimity and courage , as may be seen by the excellent epistle of the council of carthage , to boniface bishop of rome in the codex ecclesiae africanae . so tha● however africa hath been alwayes fruitfull of monsters ; yet in that ambitious age it had no other wonder but only this , that it should escape so free from that typhus saecularis ( as they then called it ) that monstrous itch of pride and ambition . from whence we may well rise to the last step of the power of the church , which was after the empire grew christian , and many provinces did associate together , then the honour and power of patriarchs came upon the stage . and now began the whole christian world to be the cock ▪ pitt , wherein the two great prelates of rome and constantinople strive with their greatest force for mastery of one another , and the whole world with them , as may be seen in the actions of paschasinus the roman legat in the council of chalcedon . from whence forward the great levi●than by his tumbling in the waves , endeavoured to get the dominion of all into his hands : but god hath at last put a hook into his nostrils , and raised up the great instruments of reformation , who like the sword ▪ fish have so pierced into his bowels , that by his tumbling he may only hasten his approaching ruine , and give the church every day more hopes of seeing its self freed from the tyranny of an u●urped power . by this scheme and draught now of the increase of the churches power , nothing can be more evident , then that it rise not from any divine institution , but only from positive & ecclesiastical laws , made according to the several states and conditions wherein the church was ; which as it gradually grew up , so wa● the power of the church by mutual consent fitted to the state of the church in its several ages . which was the fi●st argument , that the primitive church did not conceive its self bound to observe any one unalterable form of government . this being the chief , the rest that follow , will sooner be dispatched . the second is from the great varieties as to government which were in several churches . what comes from divine right , is observed unalterably in one uniform & constant tenour : but what we find so much diversified according to several places , we may have ground to look on only as an ecclesiastical constitution , which was followed by every church as it judged convenient . now as to church government we may find some churches without bishops for a long time , some but with one bishop in a whole nation , many cities without any , where bishops were common ; many churches discontinue bishops for a great while where they had been ; no certain rule observed for modelling their d●ocesses where they were still continued . will not all these things make it seem very improbable that it should be an apostolical institution , that no church should be without a bishop ? first , then some whole nations seem to have been without any bishops at all , if we may believe their own historians . so if we may believe the great antiquaries of the church of scotland , that church was governed by their culdei as they called their presbyters , without any bishop over them , for a long time . iohannes maior speaks of their instruction in the faith , per sacerdotes & monachos sine episcopis scoti in fide eruditi , but least that should be interpreted only of the●r conversion , iohannes fordònus is clear and full to their government , from the time of their conversion about a. d ▪ . to the coming of palladius a. d. . that they were only governed by presbyters and monks . ante palladii adventum habebant scoti fidei d●ctores ac sacramentorum ministratores presbyteros solunmodo , vel monachos ritum sequentes ecclesiae primitivae . so much mistaken was that learned man , who saith , that neither beda nor any other affirms that the scots were formerly ruled by a presbyterie , or so much as that they had any presbyter among them . neither is it any wayes sufficient to say , that these presbyters did derive their authority from some bishops : for however we see here a church governed without such , or if they had any , they were only chosen from their culdei , much after the custom of the church of alexandria , as hector boethiu● doth imply . and if we believe philostorgius , the gothick churches were planted and governed by presbyters for above seventy years ▪ for so long it was from their first conversion to the time of ulphilas whom ▪ he makes their first bishop . and great probability there is , that where churches were planted by presbyters , as the church of france by andochius and benignus , that afterwards upon the encrease of churches , and presbyters to rule them , they did from among themselves choose one to be as the bishop over them , as pothinus was at lyons . for we nowhere read in those early plantations of churches , that where there were presbyters already , they sent to other churches to derive episcop●l ordination from them . now for whole nations having but one bishop , we have the testimony of sozomen , that in scythia which by the romans was called masia inferior , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . although there were many cities they had but one bishop . the like godignus relates of the ab●ssine churches , though their territories be of vast extent , there is but only one bishop in all those dominions , who is the bishop of abuna . and where bishops were most common , it is evident they looked not on it as an apostolical rule for every city to have a bishop , which it must have if it was an apostolical institution for the church to follow the civil government . theodoret mentions churches under his charge , in whose di●cess ptolomy placeth many other cities of note besides cirus , as ariseria , regia , ruba , heraclea , &c. in the province of tripoly he reckons nine cities which had but five bishops , as appears by the notitia ecclesiae africanae ▪ in thracia every bishop had several cities under h●m . the bishop of heraclea that and panion ▪ , the bishop of byze had it and arcadiapolis ; of coela had it and callipolis ; sabsadia had it and aphrodisias . it is needless to produce more instances of this nature either ancient or modern , they being so common and obvious . but further , we find bishops discontinued for a long time in the greatest churches . for if there be no church without a bishop , where was the church of rome when from the martyrdome of fabian , and the banishment of lucius the church was governed only by the clergy ? so the church of carthage when cyprian was banished ; the church of the east , when meletius of antioeh , eusebius samosatenus , pelagius of laodicea , and the rest of the orthodox bishops were banished for ten years space , and flavianus and diodorus , two presbyters ruled the church of antioch the mean while , the church of carthage was twenty four years without a bishop in the time of hunerik , king of the vandals ; and when it was offered them that they might have a bishop upon admitting the arrians to a free exercise of their religion among them , their answer was upon those terms , ecclesia episcopum non delictatur habere ; and balsamon speaking of the christian churches in the east , determines it neither safe nor necessary in their present state to have bishops set up over them . and lastly for their diocesses , it is evident there was no certain rule for modelling them . in some places they were far less then in others . generally in the primitive and eastern churches they were very small and little , as far more convenient for the end of them in the government of the churches under the bishops charge : it being observed out of walafridus strabo by a learned man , fertur in orientis partibus per singulas urbes & praefecturas singulas esse episcoporum gubernationes . in africk , if we look but into the writings of augustine , we may find hundreds of bishops resorting to one council . in ireland alone , saint patrick is said by ninius at the first plantation of christianity to have founded . bishopricks . so sozomen te●ls us , that among the arabians , and cyprians , novatians montanists , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the very villages had bishops among them . the next evidence that the church did not look upon it self as by a divine law to observe any one model of government , is , the conforming the ecclesiasticall government to the civil . for , if the obligation arose from a law of god ; that must not be altered according to civil co●stitutions , which are variable according to the different state and conditions of things . if then the apostles did settle things by a standing law in their own times , how comes the model of church-government to alter with the civil form ? now that the church did generally follow the civil government , is freely acknowledged and insisted on by learned persons of all sides ; especially after the division of the roman empire by constantine the great . the full making out of which is a work too large to be here undertaken , and hath been done to very good purpose already , by berterius , salmasius , gothofred , blondel and others , in their learned discourses of the suburbicarian provinces . which whether by them we understand that which did correspond to the praefecture of the provost of rome , which was within a hundred miles compass of the city of rome , or that which answered to the vicarius urbis , whose jurisdiction was over the ten provinces distinct from italy , properly so called , whose metropolis was milan ; or , which is most probable , the metropolitan province answering to the jurisdiction of the praefectus urbis , and the patriarchate of the roman bishop to the vicarius urbis ; which way soever we take it , we see , it answered to the civil government . i shall not here enter that debate , but onely briefly at present set down the scheme of both civil and ecclesiastical government , as it is represented by our learned breerwood . the whole empire of rome was divided into xiii . dioceses , whereof ●even belonged to the east empire , and six ( beside the praefecture of the city of rome ) to the west . those thirteen dioceses , together with that praefecture contained among them . provinces , or thereabout ; so that to every diocess belonged the administration of sundry provinces : lastly , every province contained many cities within their territories . the cities had for their rulers , those inferiour judges , which in the law are called defensores civitatum ; and their seats were the cities themselves ; to which all the towns and villages in their several territories were to resort for justice . the provinces had for theirs either proconsuls , or consulares , or praesides , or correctores ; four sundry appellations , but almost all of equal authority ; and their seats were the chiefest cities or metropoles of the provinces : of which in every province there was one , to which all inferiour cities for judgement in matters of importance did resort . lastly , the dioceses had for theirs the lieutenants called vicarii , and their seats were the metropoles or principal cities of the diocess , whence the edicts of the emperour or other ▪ lawes were publ●shed , and sent abroad into all the provinces of the diocess , and where the praetorium and chief tribunal for judgement was placed to de●ermiue appeals , and minister justice ( as might be occasion ) to all the provinces belonging to that jurisdiction . and this was the disposition of the roman governour . — and truly it is wonderful ( saith that lear●ed authour ) how nearly and exactly the church in her government did imitate this civil ordination of the roman magistrates . for first , in every city , as there was a defensor civitatis for secular government , so was there placed a bishop for spiritual regiment ( in every city of the east , and in every city of the west , almost a several bishop ) whose jurisdiction extended but to the city , and the places within the territory . for which cause the jurisdiction of a bishop was anciently called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , signifying not ( as many ignorant novelists think ) a parish , as now the word is taken , that is , the places or habitations near a church , but the towns and villages near a city : all which , together with the city , the bishop had in charge . secondly , in every province , as there was a president , so there was an arch-bishop , and because his seat was the principal city of the province , he was commonly known by the name of metropolitan . lastly , in every diocess , as there was a lievtenant-general , so was there a primate seated also in the principal city of the diocess as the lieutenant was , to whom the last determining of appeals from all the provinces in differences of the clergy , and the soveraign care of all the diocess for sundry points of spiritual government did belong . by this you may see that there were xi . primates besides the three patriarchs ; for of the xiii . dioceses ( besides the praefecture of the city of rome , which was administred by the patriarch of rome ) that of egypt was governed by the patriarch of alexandria , and that of the orient by the patriarch of antiochia , and all the rest by the primates : between whom and the patriarchs was no difference of jurisdiction and power , but onely of some honour which accrued to them by the dignity of their sees ; as is clearly expressed in the third canon of the council of constantinople , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whereby constantinople is advanded to the honorary title of a patriarch next to rome , because it was new rome . whereby it is evident that the honour belonging to the bishop of old rome did arise from its being the imperial city . the honour of the bishop rising , as austin saith , that of the deacons of rome did , propter magnificentiam urbis romanae quae caput esse videour omnium civitatum . hereby we now fully see what the original was of the power of arch-bishops , metropolitans , and patriarchs , in the church , viz. the contemperating the ecclesiastical-government to the civil . the next evidence that the church did not look upon its self as bound by a divine law , to a certain form of government , but did order things itself in order to peace and unity , is , that after episcopal government was setled in the church , yet ordination by presbyters was looked on as valid . for which these instances may suffice . about the year . iohannes cassianus reports that one abbot daniel in●eriour to none of those who lived in the desart of scetis , was made a deacon , à b. pa●hnutio solitudinis ejusdem presbytero : in tantum enim virtutibus ipsius adgaudebat , ut quem vitae meritis sibi & gratiâ parem noverat , coaequare sibi etiam sacerdotti honore festinaret . siquidem nequaquam ferens in inferiore eum ministerio diutius immorari , optansque sibi●et success●rem dignissimum providere , superstes eum presbyterii honore provexit ▪ what more plain and evident then that here a presbyter ordained a presbyter , which we now here read was pronounced null by theophilus then bishop of alexandria , or any others that at time ? it is a known instance , that in the ordination of pelagius first bishop of rome , there were only two bishops concurred , and one presbyter : whereas according to the fourth canon of the nicene council ▪ three bishops are absolutely required for ordina●ion 〈…〉 bishop ; either ●hen pelagius was no canonical bishop , and so the point of succession thereby fails in the church of rome : or else a presbyter hath the same intrinsecal power of ordination which a bishop hath , but it is onely restrained by ecclesiastical lawes . in the time of eustathius bishop of antioch , which was done a. d. , as iacobus goth●●redus proves , till the time of the ordination of paulinus a. d. . which was for thirty four years space , when the church was governed by paulinus and his colleagues withdrawing from the publick assemblies ; it will be hard to say by whom the ordinations were performed all this while , unless by paulinus and his collegues . in the year . it appears by leo in his epistle to rusticus narbonensis , that some presbyters took upon them to ordain as bishops ; about which he was consulted by rusticus what was to be done in that case with those so ordained : leo his resolution of that case is observable , siqui autem clerici ab ist is pseudo-episcopis in iis ecclesiis ordinati sunt , quae ad pr●prios episcopos pertinebant , & ordinatio ●orum cum consensn & judicio praesidentium facta est , potest rata haberi , ita ut in ipsis ecclesiis perseverent . those clergy men who were ordained by such as took upon them the office of bishops , in churches belonging to proper bishops , if the ordination were performed by the consent of the bishops , it may be looked on as valid , and those presbyters remain in their office in the church . so that by the consent ex post facto of the true bishops those presbyters thus ordained , were looked on as lawful presbyte●s , which could not be , unless their ordainers had an intrinsecal power of ordination ; which was onely restrained by the laws of the church ; for if they have no power of ordination , it is impossible they should confer any thing by their o●d●nation . if to this it be answered , that the validity of their ordination did depend upon the consent of the bishops , and that presbyters may ordain , if delegated thereto by bishops , as paulinus might ordain on that account at antioch . it is easily answered , that this very power of doing it by delegation , doth imply an intrinsecal power in themselves of doing it . for i● presbyters be forbidden ordaining others by scriptures , then they can neither do it in their own persons , nor by delegation from others . f●● q●od alicui suo nomine ●on lices , nec 〈…〉 : an●●●●● rule o● cyprian must hold true , non aliquid c●i ●●●● largiri potest humana indulgentia , ubi interc●dit & leg●● tribuit divina ●r●scriptio . there can be no dispensing with divine lawes ; which must be , if that may be delegated to other persons , which was required of men in the office wherein they are . and if presbyters have power of conferring nothing by their ordination , how can an after-consent of bishops make that act of theirs valid , for conserring right and power by it ? it appears then , that this power was restrained by the lawes of the church , for preserving u●ity in its self ; but yet so , that in case of necessity what was done by presbyters , was not looked on as invalid . but against this the case of ischyras , ordained , as it is said , a presbyter by collutbus , and pronounced null by the council of alexandria , is commonly pleaded . but there is no great difficulty in answering it . for first , the pronouncing such an ordination null , doth not evidence that they looked on the power of ordination as belonging of divine right onely to bishops ; for we find by many instances , that acting in a bare contempt of ecclesiastical canons was sufficient to degrade any from being presbyters . secondly , if ischyras had been ordained by a bishop , there were c●rcumstances enough to induce the council to pronounce it null . first , as done out of the diocess , in which case ordinations are nulled by concil . arel . cap. . secondly , done by open and pronounced schismaticks . thirdly , done sine titulo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and ●o nulled by the canons then . thirdly , colluthns did not act as a presbyter in ordaining , but as a bishop of the meletian party in cynus , as the clergy of mareotis speaking of ischyras his ordination , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by collytbus a presbyter , making shew of being a bishop ; and is supposed to have been ordained a bishop by meletius . more concerning this may be seen in blondel , who fully clears all the particulars here menti●●e● . so that notwithstanding this instance , nothing appears , but that the power of ordination was restrained only by ecclesiastical law● . the last thing to prove that the church did act upon prudence in church-government , is from the many restraints in other cases made by the church , for restraint of that liberty which was allowed by divine laws . he must be a stranger to the ancient canons , and constitutions of the church , that takes not notice of such restraints made by canons , as in reference to observation of several rites and customes in the churches , determined by the provincial synods of the several churches ; for which purpose their provincial synods were still kept up in the eastern church , as appears by the testimony of firmilian in his epistle to cyprian : qua ex causa necessariò apud nos fit , ut per singulos annos seniores & praepositi in unum conveniamus , ad disponenda ea quae curae nostrae commissa sunt : ut si quae graviora sunt communi consilio dirigantur ▪ lapsis quoque fratribus , &c. medela quaeratur : non quasi à nobis remissionem peccatorum consequ●nt●r ; sed ●t per nos ad intelligentiam delictorum suorum convertantur , & domino pleniùs satisfacere cogantur . the several orders about the discipline of the church were det●rmined in these synods ; as to which , he that would find a command in scripture for their orde●s about the catechumeni , and lapsi , will take pains to no purpose , the church ordering things it self for the better regulating the several churches they were placed over . a demonstrative argument , that these things came not from divine command , is , from the great diversi●y of these customes in several places : of which besides socrates , sozomen largely speaks , and may easily be gathered from the history of the several churches . when the church began to enjoy ease and liberty , and thereby had opportunity of enjoying greater conveniency for councils ; we find what was detrrmined by those councils , were entred into a codex canonum for that purpose , which was observed next to the scriptures ; not from any obligation of the things themselves , but from the conduceablene●s of those things ( as they judged them ) to the preserving the peace and unity of the church . chap. viii . an inquiry into the iudgement of reformed divines concerning the unalterable divine right of particular forms of church-government : wherein it is made appear , that the most ●minent d●vines of the reformation did never conceive any one form necessary ; manifested by three arguments . . from the judgment of those who make the form of church-government mutable , and to depend upon the wisdom of the magistrate and church . this cleared to have been the judgement of most divines of the church of england since the reformation . archbishop cranmers judgment , with others of the reformatiion in edward the sixth's , time , now first published from his authentick ms. the same ground of setling episcopacy in queen elizabeth's time . the judgement of archbishop w●itgift , bishop bridges , dr. ●oe , mr. hooker , largely to that purpose , in king iames his time . the kings own opinion . dr. su●cl●ffe . since of ●rakan●horp , mr. hales , mr. chillingworth . the testimony of forraign divines to the same purpose . chemnitius , zanchy french divines , peter moul●n , fregevil , blondel , bochartus , amyraldus . other learned men , gro●●u● , lord bacon , &c. . those who look upon equality as the primitive form , yet judge episcopacy ▪ lawful . augustane confession , mel●nchthon , ar●icu●● sma●caldici . prince of anhalt , hyperius , hemingius : the practice of most forraign churches . c●lvin and beza both approving episcopacy and diocesan churches . salmasius , &c. . those who judge episcopacy to be the primitive form , yet look not on it as nec●ssary . bishop iewel , fulk , field , bishop downam , bishop banc●o●t , bishop morton , bishop andrews , saravia , francis mason , and others . the conclusion hence laid in order to peace principles conducing thereto . . prudence must be used in church-government , at last confessed by all parties . independents in elective synods , and church covenants , admission of members , number in congregations . presbyterians in classes , and synods , lay-elders &c. e●iscopal in diocesses , causes , rites , &c. . that prudence best , which comes nearest primitive practice . a presidency for life over an ecclesiastical senate shewed to be that form , in order to it . presbyteries to be restored . diocesses l●ssened . provincial synods kept twice a year . the reasonableness and easiness of accommodation shewed . the whole concluded . having thus far proceeded , through divine assistance , in our intended method , and having found nothing determining the necessity of any one form of government in the several laws of nature and christ , nor in the practice of apostles , or primitive church ; the only thing possible to raise a suspition of novelty in this opinion , is , that it is contrary to the judgement of the several churches of the reformation . i know it is the last asylum which many run to , when they are beaten off from their imaginary fancies , by pregnant testimonies of scripture and reason , to shelter themselves under the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of some particular persons , to whom their understandings are bored in perpetual slavery : but if men would but once think their understandings at age to judge for themselves , and not make them live under a continual pupillage ; and but take the pains to travel over the several churches of the reformation , they would find themselves freed of many strange misprisions they were possessed with before , and understand far better the ground and reason of their pitching upon their several forms , than they seem to do , who found all things upon a divine right . i believe there will , upon the most impartial survey , scarce be one church of the reformation brought , which doth imbrace any form of government , because it looked upon that form as onely necessary by an unalterable standing law , but every one took up that form of government which was judged most suitable to the state and condition of their severall churches : but that i may the better make this appear , i shall make use of some arguments whereby to demonstrate , that the most eminent divines that have lived since the reformation , have been all of this mind , that no one form is determined as necessary for the church of god in all ages of the world. for if many of them have in thesi asserted the form of church-government mutable ; if those who have thought an equality among ministers the primitive form , have yet thought a government by episcopacy lawfull and usefull : if , lastly , those who have been for episcopacy , have not judged it necessary , then i suppose it will be evident , that none of them have judged any one form taken exclusively of others , to be founded upon an unalterable right : for whatsoever is so founded , is made a necessary duty in all churches to observe it , and it is unlawfull to vary from it , or to change it according to the prudence of the church , according to the state and condition of it . i now therefore undertake to make these things out in their order . first , i begin with those who have in thesi asserted the mutability of the form of church government . herein i shall not follow the english humour , to be more acquainted with the state of forreign places then their own ; but it being of greatest concernment to know upon what accounts episcopal government was setled among our selves , in order to our submission to it ; i shall therefore make inquiry into the judgement of those persons concerning it , who either have been instrumental in setling it , or the great defenders of it after its setlement . i doubt not but to make it evident , that before these late unhappy times , the main ground for setling episcopal government in this nation , was not accounted any pretence of divine right , but the conveniency of that form of church government to the state and condition of this church at the time of its reformation : for which we are to consider , that the reformation of our church was not wrought by the torrent of a popular fury , nor the insurrection of one part of the nation against another , but was wisely , gravely , and maturely debated , and setled with a great deal of consideration . i meddle not with the times of henry . when i will not deny but the first quickning of the reformation might be , but the matter of it was as yet rude and undigested ; i date the birth of it from the first setlement of that most excellent prince edward . the phosphorus of our reformation . who , a. d. . was no sooner entred upon his throne , but some course was presently taken in order to reformation . commissioners with injunctions were dispatched to the several parts of the land , but the main business of the reformation was referred to the parliament call'd november . the same year ; when all former statutes about religion were recall'd , as may be seen at large in mr. fox , and liberty allowed for professing the gospel according to the principles of reformation , all banished persons for religion being call'd home . upon this , for the better establishing of religion , and the publick order for the service of god , an assembly of select divines is call'd , by special order from the kings majesty , for debating of the settlement of things according to the word of god , and the practice of the primitive church . these sate , as mr. fox tells us , in windsor castle ; where , as he expresseth it , after long , learned , wise , and deliberate advises , they did finally conclude and agree upon one uniform order , &c. no more is said by him of it , and less by the late historian . the proceedings then in order to reformation , being so dark hitherto , and obscure , by what is as yet extant , much light may accrue thereto by the help of some authentick ms. which by a hand of providence , have happily come into my hands ; wherein the manner and method of the reformation will be more evident to the world , and the grounds upon which they proceeded . in the convocation that year sitting with the parliament , i find two petitions made to the archbishop and the bishops of the upper house , for the calling an assembly of select divines , in order to the setling church-affairs , and for the kings grant for their acting in convocation . which not being yet ( to my knowledge ) extant in publike , and conducing to our present business , i shall now publish from the ms. of bishop cranm●rs . they run thus : certain petitions and requests made by the clergy of the lower house of the convocation , to the most reverend father in god , the arch-bishop of canterbury's grace , and the residue of the prelates of the higher house , for the furtherance of certeyne articles following . first , that ecclesiastical laws may be made and established in this realm by xxxij . persons , or so many as shall please the kings majesty to name and appoint ; according to the effect of a late statute made in the thirty fifth year of the most noble king , and of most famous memory , king henry the eighth . so that all iudges ecclesiastical proceeding after those laws , may be without danger and peril . also that according to the antient custome of this realm , and the tenor of the kings writs for the summoning of the parliament , which be now , and ever have been directed to the bishops of every diocess , the clergy of the lower house of the convocation may be adjoyned and associate with the lower house of parliament , or else that all such statutes and ordinances as shall be made concerning all matters of religion and causes ecclesiastical may not pass without the sight and assent of the said clergy . also that whereas by the commandment of king henry . certeyne prelates and other learned men were appointed to alter the service in the church , and to dewise other convenient and uniform order therein , who according to the same appointment did make certeyne books a● they be informed , their request is , that the said books may be seen and perused by them for a better expedition of divine service to bee set furthe accordingly . also that men being called to spiritual promotions or benefices , may have sum allowance for their necessary living , and other charges to be susteyned and born concerning the said benefices in the first year wherein they pay the first fruits . the other is , where the clergy in the present convocation assembled have made humble suite unto the most reverend father in god my lord arch-bishop of canterbury , and all other bishops . that hit may please them to be a mean to the kings majesty , and the lord protectors grace ; that the said clergy , according to the tenor of the kings will , and the auncient laws and customes of this noble realme , might have their rowme and place , and be associated with the communs in the nether howse of this present parliament ; as members of the communwealth , and the kings most humble subjects ; and if this may not be permitted and graunted to them , that then no laws concerning the christi●n religion , or which shall concern especially the persons , possessions , rowmes , lyveings , jurisdictions , goods or cattalls of the said clergy may passe nor be enacted , the said clergy not being made privy thereunto , and their aunswers and reasons not heard . the said clergy dò most humbly beseech an answer and declaration to be made unto them , what the said most reverend father in god , and all other the bishoppes have done in this their humble suit and request , to the end that the said clergy if nede bee , may chose of themself such able and diserete persons which shall effectually follow the same suite in name of them all . and where in a statute ordeyned and established by auctorite of parliament at westminster , in the twenty fifth year of the reigne of the most excellent prince , king henry the eighth , the cleregy of this realme , submitting themselfe to the kings highness , did knowledge and confesse according to the truth , that the convocations of the same cleregie hath ben and ought to be assembled by the kings writt , and did promise further in verbo sacerdotii , that they never from thenceforth wolde presume to attempt , allege , clayme , or put in ure or enact , promulge or execute any new canons , constitutions , ordinances , provincialls or other , or by whatsoever other name they shall bee called in the convocation , oneles the kings most royal assent and lisence may to them be had , to make , promulge and execute the same . and his majesty to give his most royall assent and auctorite in that behalfe upon peyne of every one of the cleregie doeyng the contrary , and beinge thereof convict , to suffre imprisonment , and make fine at the kings will ▪ and that noe canons , constitutions , or ordinances shall be made or put in execution within this realme by auctorite of the convocation of the cleregie , which shall be repugnant to the kings prerogative royall , or the customes , laws , or statutes of this realme . which statute is eftsoons renewed and established in the xxvij . yere of the reigne of the said most noble kinge , as by the tenor of both statutes more at large will appear , the said cleregie being presently assembled in convocation by auctorite of the kings writ , do desire that the kings majesties licence in writeing may be for them obteyned and granted according to the effect of the said statutes auctoriseing them to attempt , entreate and commune of such matters , and therein freely to geve their consents , which otherwise they may not doe , upon peyne and perill premised . also the said cleregie desireth that such matters as concerneth religione which be disputable , may be quietly , and in good order reasond and disputed emongst them in this howso , whereby the verites of such matters shall the better appear . and the doubtes being opened and resolutely discussed , men may be fully persuaded with the quyetnes of their consciences , and the tyme well spent . thus far those petitions , containing some excellent proposalls for a through reformation . soon after were called together by the kings special order , the former select assembly at windsor castle , where met ( as far as i can guesse by the several papers delivered ▪ in by every one of them singly , and subscribed with their own hands , all which i have perused ) these following persons . thomas ▪ arch bishop of canterbury , edward ▪ arch-bishop of yorke , the bishop of rochester , edmund bishop of london , robert bishop of carlisle , dr. george day , dr. thomas robertson . dr. i. redmayne , dr. edward leighton , dr. symon matthew , dr. william tresham , dr. richard cozen , dr. edgeworth , dr. owen oglethorp , dr. thyrleby . these all gave in their several resolutions in papers , to the questions propounded , with their names subscribed ; ( a far more prudent way then the confusion of verbal and tedious disputes ) all whose judgements are accurately summed up , and set down by the arch-bishop of canterbury himself . their resolutions contain distinct answers to several sets of questions propounded to them . the first set contained several questions about the mass , about the instituting , receiving , nature , celebration of it ; and whether in the mass it be convenient to use such speech as the people may understand , whether the whole were fit to be translated , or only some part of it ; with several other questions of the same nature . the second set is more pertinent to our purpose , wherein are questions proposed to be resolved ; ten of them belong to the number of sacraments , the other . concern church government . the questions are these : whether the appostells lacking a higher power , as in not having a christian-king among them , made bishoppes by that necessity , or by auctorite given them of god ? whether bishops or priests were first ; and if the priests were first , then the priest made the bishop ? whether a bishop hath auctorite to make a priest by the scripture or no , and whether any other but onely a bishop may make a priest ? whether in the new testament be required any consecration of a bishop and priest , or onely appointeinge to the office be sufficient ? whether ( if it fortuned a prince christien lerned to conquer certen domynyons of infidells , having non but the temporall lerned men with him ) it be defended by gods law , that be and they should preche and teche the word of god there or no , and also make and constitute priests or noe ? whether it be forefended by goddes law , that if it so fortuned that all the bishopps and priests were dedde , and that the word of god shuld there unpreached , the sacrament of baptisme and others unministred , that the king of that region shulde make bishoppes and priests to supply the same or noe ? whether a bishop or a priest may excommunicate ▪ and for what crimes , and whether they only may excommunicate by goddes law ? these are the questions , to which the answers are severally returned in distinct papers , all of them bound together in a large volume by archbishop cranmer ; and every one subscribed their names , and some their seals , to the papers delivered in . it would be too tedious a work to set down their several opinions at large ; only for the deserved reverence all bear to the name and memory of that most worthy prelate , and glorious martyr , archbishop cranmer , i shall set down his answer distinctly to every one of these questions , and the answers of some others to the more material questions to our purpose . to the . q. all christian princes have committed unto them immediately of god the holle cure of all their subjects , as well concerning the administration of goddes word for the cure of soul , as concerning the ministration of things political , and civil governaunce . and in both theis ministrations thei must have sundry ministers under them to supply that which is appointed to their several office . the cyvile ministers under the kings majesty in this realme of england , be those whom yt shall please his highness for the tyme to put in auctorite under him ; as for example , the lord chancellour , lord treasurer , lord greate master , lord privy seal , lord admyral , mayres , shryves , &c. the ministers of gods wourde under his majesty be the bishops , parsons , vicars , and such other priests as be appointed by his highnes to that ministration ; as for example , the bishop of canterbury , the bishop of duresme , the bishop of winchester , the parson of wynwicke , &c. all the said officers and ministers , as well of th' one sorte as the other , be appointed , assigned , and elected in every place , by the laws and orders of kings and princes . in the admission of many of these officers bee diverse comely ceremonies and solemnities used , which be not of necessity , but only for a good order and semely fashion . for if such offices and ministrations were committed without such solemnitye , thei were nevertheles truely committed . and there is no more promise of god , that grace is given in the committing of the ecclesiastical office , then it is in the committing of the cyvile . in the apostles time , when there was no christien princes by whose authority ministers of gods word might be appointed ; nor synnes by the sword corrected ; there was no remedie then for the correction of vice , or appoynteinge of ministers , but onely the consent of christien multitude amonge themselfe , by an uniforme consent to follow the advice and perswasion of such persons whom god had most endued with the spirit of wisdome and counsa●le . and at that time , for as much as christian people had no sword nor governer among them , thei were constrained of necessity to take such curates and priests , as either they knew themselfes to bee meet thereunto , or else as were commended unto them by other , that were so replete with the spirit of god , with such knowledge in the profession of christ , such wisdome , such conversation and counsell , that they ought even of very conscience to give credit unto them , and to accept such as by theym were presented . and so some tyme the appostles and other unto whom god had given abundantly his spirit , sent or appointed ministers of gods word , sometime the people did chose such as they thought meete thereunto . and when any were appointed or sent by the appostles or other , the people of their awne voluntary will with thanks did accept them ; not for the supremitie , imperie , or dominion , that the apostells had over them , to command as their princes or masters : but as good people , readie to obey the advice of good counsellours ; and to accept any thing that was necessary for their edification and benefit . the bishops and priests were at one time , and were not two things , but both one office in the beginning of christs religion . a bishop may make a priest by the scriptures , and so may princes and governours alsoe , and that by the auctoritie of god committed them , and the people alsoe by their election . for as we reade that bishops have done it , so christien emperours and princes usually have done it . and the people before christien princes were , commonly did elect their bishops and priests . in the new testament , he that is appointed to be a bishop or a priest , needeth no consecration by the scripture ; for election or appointeing thereto is sufficient . it is not against gods law , but contrary they ought in dede so to doe , and there be historyes that witnesseth , that some christien princes and other lay men unconsecrate have done the same . it is not forbidden by god's law. a bishop or a priest by the scripture , is neither commanded nor forbidden to excommunicate . but where the lawes of any region giveth him authoritie to excommunicate , there they ought to use the same in such crymes as the lawes have such authority in . and where the lawes of the region forbiddeth them , there they have none authority at all . and thei that be no priests , may alsoe excommunicate , if the law allow thereunto . thus fa● that excellent person ; in whose judgment nothing is more clear , then his ascribing the particular form of government in the church to the determination of the supreme magistrate . this judgement of his , is thus subscribed by him with his own hand , t. cantuariens . this is mine opinion and sentence at this present , which i do not temerariously define , but do remit the judgment thereof holly to your majesty . which i have exactly transcribed out of the original , and have observed generally the form of writing at that time used . in the same m s. it appears , that the bishop of s. asaph , therleby , redman , and cox , were all of the same opinion with the archbishop , that at first bishops and presbyters were the same ; and the two latter expresly cite the opinion of ierome with approbation . thus we see by the testimony chiefly of him who was instrumental in our reformation , that he owned not episcopacy ▪ as a distinct order from presbytery of divine right ; but only as a prudent constitution of the civil magistrate f●r the better governing in the church . we now proceed to the re-establishment of church-government under our most happy queen elizabeth . after our reformation had truly undergone the fiery trial in queen maries dayes , and by those flames was made much more refined and pure , as well as splendid and illustrious ; in the articles of religion agreed upon , our english form of church-government was onely determined to be agreeable to gods holy word ; which had been a very low and diminishing expression , had they looked on it as absolutely prescribed and determined in scripture , a● the onely necessary form to be observed in the church . the first who solemnly appeared in vindication of the english hierarchy , was archbishop whi●gi●t a sage and prudent person , whom we cannot suppose either ignorant of the sense of the church of england , or afraid or unwilling to defend it . yet he frequently against cartwright●sserts ●sserts , that the form of discipline is not particularly and by name set down in scripture : and again , no kind of government is expressed in the word , or can necessarily be concluded from thence ; which he repeats over again , no form of church-government is by the scriptures prescribed to , or commanded the church of god. and so doctor cosins his chancellor in answer to the abstract , all churches have not the same form of discipline , neither is it necessary that they should , seeing it cannot be proved that any certain particular form of church-government is commended to us by the word of god. to the same purpose doctor low , complaint of the church ; no certain form of government is prescribed in the word , onely general rules laid down for it . bishop bridges ; god hath not expressed the form of church-government , at least not so as to bind us to it . they who please but to consult the third book of learned and judicious master hookers ecclesiastical polity , may see the mutability of the form of church-government largely asserted , and fully proved . yea , this is so plain and evident to have been the chief opinion of the divines of the church of england , that parker looks on it as one of the main foundations of the hierarchy , and sets himself might and main to oppose it ; but with what success , we have already seen . if we come lower to the time of king iames ▪ his majesty himself declared it in print , as his judgment ; christiano cuique regi , principi , ac rèipublicae concessum , externam in rebus ecclesiasticis regiminis formam suis prascribere , quae ad civilis administrationis formam quàm proximè accedat . that the civil power in any nation , hath the right of prescribing what external form of church government it please , which doth most agree to the civil form of government in the state. doctor sutcliffe de presbyterio largely disputes against those who assert that christ hath laid down certain immutable lawes for government in the church . crakanthorp against spalatensis doth assert the mutability of such things as are founded upon apostolical tradition ▪ traditum igitur ab apostolis , sed traditum & mutabile , & pro usu ac arbitrio ecclesiae mutandum . to the like purpose speak the forecited authours , as their testimonies are extant in parker . bishop bridges , num unumquodque exemplum ecclesiae primitivae praeceptum aut mandatum faciat ? and again , forte rerum nonnullarum in primitiva ecclesia exemplum aliquod ostendere possunt , sed nec id ipsum generale , nec ejusdem perpetuam regulam aliquam , quae omnes ecclesias & aetates omnes ad illud exemplum astringat . so archbishop whitgift , ex facto aut exemplo legem facere , iniquúm est . nunquam licet , inquit zuinglius , à facto ad jus argumentari . by which principles , the divine right of episcopacy as founded upon apostolical practice , is quite subverted and destroyed . to come nearer to our own unhappy times ; not long before the breaking forth of those never sufficiently to be lamented intestine broyls , we have the judgement of two learned , judicious , rational authours fully discovered as to the point in question . the first is that incomparable man master hales in his often cited tract of schism : whose words are these ; but that other head of episcopal ambition ▪ concerning supremacy of bishops in divers see's , one claiming supremacy over another , as is hath been from time to time a great trespass against the churches peace , so it is now the final ruine of it : the east and west through the fury of the two prime bishops being irremediably separated without all hope of reconcilement . and besides all this mischief , it is founded on a vice contrary to all christian humility , without which no man shall see his saviour . for they doe but abase themselves and others , that would perswade us , that bishops by christs institution have any superiority over men further then of reverence , or that any bishop is superiour to another , further then positive order agreed upon among christians hath prescribed : for we have believed him that hath told us , that in iesus christ there is neither high nor low : and that in giving honour , every man should be ready to preferre another before himself : which saying cuts off all claim certainly of superiority , by title of christianity , except men think that these things were spoken onely to poor and private men. nature and religion agree in this , that neither of them had a hand in this heraldry of secundum sub & supra , all this comes from composition and agreement of men among themselves ; wherefore this abuse of christianity to make it lacquey to ambition , is a vice for which i have no extraordinary name of ignominy ; and an ordinary i will not give it , lest you should take so transcendent a vice to be but trivial . thus that grave and wise person , whose words savour of a more then ordinary tincture of a true spirit of christianity , that scorns to make religion a footstool to pride and ambition . we see plainly he makes all difference between church-officers to arise from consent of parties , and not from any divine law. to the same purpose master chillingworth propounds this question among many others to his adversary : whether any one kind of these external forms and orders and government be so necessary to the being of a church , but that they may be diverse in divers places , and that a good and peaceable christian may and ought to submit himself to the government of the place where he lives whosoever he be ? which question according to the tenour of the rest to which it is joyned , must as to the former part be resolved in the negative , and as to the latter in the affirmative . which is the very thing i have been so long in proving of , viz. that no one form of church-government is so necessary to the being of a church , but that a good and peaceable christian may and ought to conform himself to the government of that place where he lives . so much i suppose may suffice to shew that the opinion which i have asserted , is no stranger in our own nation , no not among those who have been professed defenders of the ecclesiastical government of this church . having thus far acquainted our selves with the state and customes of our own countrey , we may be allowed the liberty of visiting forraign churches : to see how far they concur with us in the matter in question . the first person whose judgement we shall produce asserting the mutability of the form of church-government , is that great light of the german church chemnitius , whom brightman had so high an opinion of as to make him to be one of the angels in the churches of the revelation . he , discoursing about the sacrament of order , as the papists call it , layes down these following hypotheses , as certain truth● . . non esse dei verbo mandatum , qui vel quot tales gradus seu ordines esse debeant . . non fuisse tempore apostolorum in omnibus ecclesiis & semper , cosdem & totidem gradus seu ordines id quod ex epistolis pauli ad diversas ecclesias scriptis manifestè colligitur . . non fuit tempore apostolorum talis distributio graduum illorum , quin saepius unus & idem omnia illa officia , quae ad ministerium pertinent , sustineret . liberae igitur fuerunt apostolorum tempore tales ordinationes , habitâ ratione ordinis , decori & aedificationis , &c. illud apostolorum exemplum primitiva ecclesia , eadem ratione & simili libertate imitata est . gradus enim officior um ministerii distributi fuerunt : non autem eadem plane ratione sicut in corinthiaca vel ephesina ecclesia , sed pro ratione circumstantiarum cujusque ecclesiae ; unde colligitur quae fuerit in distributione illorum graduum libertas . the main thing he asserts , is , the curches freedom and liberty as to the orders and degrees of those who superintend the affairs of the church , which he builds on a threefold foundation . . that the word of god no where commands , what or how many degrees and orders of ministers there shall be . . that in the apostles times , there was not the like number in all churches , as is evivident from pauls epistles . . that in the apostles times in some places one person did manage the several offices belonging to a church . which three propositions of this learned divine , are the very basis and foundation of all our foregoing discourse , wherein we have endeavoured to prove these several things at large . the same learned person hath a set discourse to shew how by degrees the offices in the church did rise , not from any set or standing law , but for the convenient managery of the churches affairs , and concludes his discourse thus : et haec prima graduum seu ordinum origo in ecclesia apostolica ostendit quae causa , quae ratio , quis usus & finis esse debeat hujusmodi seu graduum , seu ordinum ; ut scilicet pro ratione coetus ecclesiastici , singula officia quae ad ministerium pertinent , commodius , rectius , diligentius , & ordine cum aliqua gravitate ad aedificationem obeantur . the summ is , it appears by the practice of the apostolical church , that the state , condition , and necessity of every particular church , ought to be the standard , and measure what offices and degrees of persons ought to be in it . as to the uncertain number of officers in the churches in apostolical times , we have a full and express testimony of the famous centuriatours of magdeburge . quot verò in qualibet ecclesia personae ministerio functae sint , non est in flistoriis annotatum , nec usquam est praeceptum , ut aeque multi in singulis essent , sed prout paucitas aut multitudo coetus postulavit , ita pauciores aut plures administerium ecclesiae sunt adhibiti . we see by them there is no other certain rule laid down in scripture , what number of persons shall act in the governing every church ; onely general prudence according to the churches necessity , was the ground of determining the number then , and must be so still . the next person whose judgement is fully on our side , is a person both of learning and moderation , and an earnest restorer of discipline as well as doctrine in the church . i mean hieron zanchy , who in several places hath expressed his judgement to the purpose we are now upon . the fullest place is in his confession of faith , penned by him in the lxx . year of his age ; and if ever a man speaks his mind , it must be certainly when he professeth his judgement in a solemn manner by way of his last will and testament to the world ( that when the soul is going into another world , he may leave his mind behind him ) thus doth zanch ; in that confession , in which he declares this to be his judgement as to the form of church-government ; that in the apostles times there were but two orders under them , viz. of pastors and teachers : but presently subjoyns these words , interea tamen non improbamus patres , quod juxta variam , tum verbi dispensandi , tum regendae ecclesiae rationem , varios quoqu● ordines ministrorum multiplicarint , quando id iis liberum fuit , sicut & nobis ; & quando constat id ab illis factum honestis de causis , ad ordinem , ad decorum & ad aedificationem ecclesiae pro co tempore pertinentibus . and in the next section , novimus enim deum nostrum , deum esse ordinis non confusionis ; & ecclesiam servari ordine , perdi autem 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : qua de causa multos etiam & diversos , non solum olim in israele , verum etiam post in ecclesia ex iudaeis & gentibus collecta , ministrorum ordines instituit ; & eandem etiam ob causam , liberum reliquit ecclesiis , ut plures adderent vel non adderent , modo ad aedificationem fieret . he asserts it to be in the churches power and liberty to add several orders of ministers according as it judgeth them tend to edification ; and saith , he is far from condemning the course of the primitive church in erecting one as bishop over the presbyters , for better managing church affairs ; yea , arch-bishops , metropolitans , and patriarchs as instituted by the primitive church before the nicene council , he thinks may be both excused and defended , although afterward they degenerated into tyranny and ambition . and in his observations upon his confession , penned chiefly upon the occasion of the exceptions of magnus quidam vir ( some will guess who that was ) taken at the free delivery of his mind concerning the polity of the primitive church , he hath expressions to this purpose : that what was unanimously determined by the primitive church without any contradiction to scripture , did come from the holy spirit . hinc fit , saith he , ut quae sint hujuscemodi , ea ego improbare nec velim , nec audeam bona conscientia . quis autem ego sim , qui quod tota ecclesia approbavit , improbem ? such things , saith he , as are so determined , i neither will nor can with a safe conscience condemn . for who am i , that i should condemn that which the whole church of god hath approved ? a sentence as full of judgement as modesty . and that he might shew he was not alone in this opinion , he produceth two large and excellent discourses of martin bucer concerning the polity of the ancient church , which he recites with approbation ; the one out of his commentaries on the ephesians , the other de disciplina clericali : whereby we have gained another testimony of that famous and peaceable divine , whose judgement is too large to be here inserted . the same opinion of zanchy may be seen in his commentaries upon the fourth command , wherein he asserts no particular form to be prescribed , but onely general rules laid down in scripture , that all be done to edification ; speaking of the originall of episcopacy which came not dispositione divina , but consuetudine ecclesiastica , atque ea quidem minime improbanda ; neque enim hunc ordinem prohibuit christus sed potius regulam generalem reliquit per apostolum , nt in ecclesia omnia fiant ad edificationem . it is then most clear and evident that neither bucer , chemnitius or zanchy did look upon the church as so bound up by any immutable form of church-government laid down in scripture , but it might lawfully and laudably alter it for better edification of the church . for these learned divines conceiving that at first in the church there was no difference between bishop and presbyter , and commending the polity of the church when episcopacy was set in a higher order , they must of necessity hold that there was no obligation to observe that form which was used in apostolical times . our next inquiry is into the opinion of the french church , and the eminent divines therein . for calvin and b●z̄a , we have designed them under another rank . at present we speak of those who in thesi assert the form of church-government mutable . the first wee meet with here who fully layes down his opinion as to this matter , is , ioh. fregevil , who although in his palma christiana he seems to assert the divine right of primacy in the church , yet in his politick reformer , he asserts both forms of government by equality and inequality , to be lawful . and we shall the rather produce his testimony , because of the high character given of him by the late reverend bishop hall. wise fregevil , a deep head , and one that was able to cut even betwixt the league , the church and state : his words are these ; as for the english government , i say , it is grounded upon gods word so far forth as it keepeth the state of the clergy instituted in the old testament , and confirmed in the new. and concerning the government of the french church , so far as concerneth the equality of ministers , it hath the like foundation in gods word : namely in the example of the apostles ; which may suffice to authorize both these forms of estate ; albeit in several times and places . none can deny but that the apostles among themselves were equal , as concerning authority , albeit there were an order for their precedency . when the apostles first planted churches , the same being small and in affliction , there were not as yet any other bishops , priests or deacons but themselves ; they , were the bishops and deacons , and together served the tables . those men therefore whom god raiseth up to plant a church , can do no better , then after the examples of the apostles to bear themselves in equal authority . for this cause have the french ministers , planters of the reformed church in france usurped it , howbeit provisionally — reserving liberty to alter it , according to the occurrences . but the equality that rested among the bishops of the primitive church , did increase as the churches increased ; and thence proceeded the creation of deacons , and afterwards of other bishops and priests ; yet ceased not the apostles equality in authority ; but they that were created , had not like authority with the apostles ; but the apostles remained as soveraign bishops , neither were any greater then they . hereof i do inferr that in the state of a mighty and peaceable church , as is the church of england , or as the church of france is ( or such might be , if god should call it to reformation ) the state of the clergy ought to be preserved . for equality will be hurtful to the state , and in time breed confusion . but as the apostles continued churches in their equality so long as the churches by them planted were small ; so should equality be applyed in the planting of a church , or so long as the church continueth small , or under persecution ; yet may it also be admitted as not repugnant to gods word in those places where already it is received , rather then to innovate anything . i say therefore , that even in the apostles times the state of the clergy increased as the church increased . neither was the government under the bondage of egypt , and during the peace of the land of canaan alike ; for israelites had first iudges , and after their state increased , kings . thus far that politique reformer . whose words are so full and pertinent to the scope and drift of this whole treatise , that there is no need of any commentary to draw them to my sense . the next i shall pitch upon in the french church , is , a triumvirate of three as learned persons in their several wayes as most that church or any since the reformation hath bred ; they are blondel , bochartus , and amyraldus . the first is that great church antiquary , blondel the known and learned assertor of ieromes opinion concerning the primitive equality of presbyters , who was likewise of ieromes mind as to the mutability of that form if the church saw fit , as appears by these words of his speaking of that form of ecclesiastical polity which hilary speaks of , viz. the eldest presbyters having the primacy of order above the rest . fac tamen , saith he , apostolis non modo non improbantibus , sed palam laudantibus ortam , ego sanè liberè ab initio observatam , christianisque sive ab apostolis sive ab eorum discipulis traditam , sed ut mutabilem & pro usu ac arbitrio ecclesiae mutandam ( prout in causâ consimili piae memoriae crakanthorpius sensis ) crediderim : and not long after , nec concessus capite carentes , aut multicipites , minùs horremus , quam fervidiores hierarchici : quibus indagandum curatiùs incumbit ; an pastorum cuiquam quocunque ritulo nun● gaudeat , divino jure 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 eaque perpetua decreta sit ; an verò in arbitrio ecclesiae , ipse ( qui praeest ecclesiae ) spiritus religuerit , ut , quocunque modo liberet , sibi de capite 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 collegia providerent . whereby that most learned writer for presbyterie ( as some have call'd him ) evidently asserts the mutability of the particular form of church government , and that it is left to the prudence and arbitrement of the church , to conclude and determine , in what way and manner the rulers of the church shall act , for moderating the common concernments of the church . the next is the learned and ingenuous bochartus , who ex professo , doth assert the opinion i have been pleading thus long in the behalf of , in his epistle to dr. morley . he having declared himself to be of ieromes mind , as to the apostles times , that the churches were governed communi consilio presbyterorum ; and withall , asserting the great antiquity of episcopacy , as arising-soon after the apostles times , and that magno cum fructu , as a very usefull form of government : he subjoyns these words directly overthrowing the d●vine right of either form of government , by episcopacy or presbyterie . n●● apostolorum praxim puto vim habuisse legis , in rebus su● natura 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . proinde tam qui presbyteralem , quam episcopalem ordinem juris divini esse asserunt , videntur 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and therefore asserts , that the form of government must be determined , as that in the state is , according to the suitableness of it to the state , temper , and condition of the people it is intended for . the last is , judicious amyraldus , whom one deservedly calls , one of the greatest wits of this age. in his proposals for peace with the lutherans , speaking of the different forms of church-government in the several churches of the reformation , he layes down this for a foundation of union among the several churches . quando igitur christus quidem & apostoli hoc diserté constituerunt , debere particulares ecclesias omnes gubernari à pastoribus , & aliquâ regiminis forma temperari , quod ipsa rei necessitas flagitat ; quae verò regiminis ista forma potissimùm esse debeat , utrum alii aliis auctoritate praecellant , necne , neque rei natura definivit , neque à christo aut apostolis aeque disertè constitutum est ; id primò in pacificatione statuendum esse videtur , ut quo jure hactenus fuerunt ecclesiarum evangelicarum pastores , eodem porrò esse pergant , neque aliae aliarum statum convellere nitantur . that every church be permitted freely to enjoy its own form , since some kind of government is necessary in all churches , but no one form is prescribed by christ or his apostles ; and more fully afterwards to the same purpose . quemadmodum igitur etsi politiarum formae aliae aliis aptiores ad finem illum politicum obtinendum , & accomodatiores esse videntur , deus tamen qui omnis societatis auctor est atque custos , noluit omnes hominum coetus eodem jure teneri , sed cuique communitati potestatem esse voluit suas leges sibi condendi , quas ipse divinâ suâ auctoritate sancit ; sic dubitandum quidem non est quin ex variis illis administrandarum ecclesiarum rationibus , nonnullae sint aliquanto quam aliae conducibiliores ad eum finem adipiscendum quem religio constitutune habet : at voluit tamen sapientissimus indulgentissimusque deus , cuique ecclesiaejus esse sibi leges eas ferendi quae ad disciplinam spectant , & ad ordinem conservandum . whereby he grants as much freedome and liberty to every church , to prescribe laws to its self , for the regulating the affairs of the church , as to any state to pitch upon its particular rules and wayes of government . so the church do in its orders but observe the general rules laid down in scripture . having thus fully shewed how many of he most eminent divines of the reformation have embraced this opinion of the mutability of the form of church-government , both in our own and forraign churches , who were far from being the proselytes of erastus ; it were easie to add mantissae loco : the concurrent judgement of many very learned men , as the excellent hugo grotius , my lord bacon , sir will. morice , and others , who have in print delivered this as their judgement ; but seeing such is the temper of ma ny , as to cast by their judgements with an opinion of their partiality towards the government of the church ; i have therefore contented my self with the judgement of divines , most of them of the highest rank since the reformation : whose judgements certainly will be sufficient to remove that prejudice , wherewith this opinion hath been entertained among the blind followers of the several parties . so much for those , who in terms assert the form of church-government not to depend upon an unalterable law , but to be left to the prudence and discretion of every particular church , to determine it according to its suitableness to the state , condition , and temper of the people whereof it consists , and conduceableness to the ends for which it is instituted . we come now in the second place to those , who though they look upon equality of ministers as the primitive form , yet do allow episcopal government in the church as a very lawful and useful constitution . by which it is evident , that they did not judge the primitive form to carry an universal obligation along with it , over all churches , ages , and places . upon this account , our learned crakanthorp frees all the reformed churches from the charge of aërianisin , laid upon them by the archbishop of spalato ( when he licked up his former vomit in his consilium reditûs ) . crakanthorps words are these , speaking of luther , calvin , beza , and all the reformed churches ; non habent illi , scio , distinctos à presbyteris , eisque in ordinandi & excommunicandi potestate superiores episcopos . at imparitatem istam , quod fecit aërius , non verbo dei repugnare docent ; non damnant eam vel in nostrâ , vel in universali per annos super mille quingentos ecclesiâ . per verbum dei & ius divinum , liberum & licitum utrumvis censent , vel imparitatem istam admittere vel paritatem ; in arbitrio hoc esse ac potestate cujusvis ecclesiae censent , utrum paritatem ordinum admittant , an imparitatem . so that according to the opinion of this learned divine , all the reformed churches were free from the imputation of aërianism , because they asserted not an imparity among the ministers of the gospel to be unlawful ; but thought it was wholly in the churches liberty , to settle either a parity or imparity among them , as they judged convenient . but to descend more particularly to the heroes of the reformation : we have a whole constellation of them together in the augustane confession , where they fully express their minds to this purpose , hâc de re in hoc conveni● saepe testati sumus , nos summâ voluntate cupere , conservare politiam ecclesiasticam , & gradus in ecclesiâ factos etiam humaná authoritate . scimus enim bono & utili consilio à patribus ecclesiasticam disciplinam , hoc modo , ut veteres canones describunt , constit utam esse . and afterwards , saevitia episcoporum in causâ est , quare alicubi dissolvitur illa canonica politia , quam magnopere cupiebamus conservare . and again , hîc iterum volumus testatum , nos libenter conservaturos esse ecclesiasticam & canonicam politiam , si modo episcopi desinant in ecclesias nostras saevire . haec nostra voluntas , & coram deo & apud omnes gentes ad omnem posteritatem excusabit nos , nè nobis imputari possit , quod episcoporum authoritas labefactetur . and yet further : saepe jam testati sumus , nos non solùm potestatem ecclesiasticam , quae in evangelio instituta est , summâ pietate venerari , sed etiam ecclesiasticam politiam , & gradus in ecclesiâ magnoperé probare ; & , quantùm in nobis est , conservare cupere . we see with what industry they purge and clear themselves from the imputation of bearing any ill will to the several degrees that were instituted by the church ; nay , they profess themselves desirous of retaining them , so the bishops would not force them to do any thing against their consciences . to the same purpose they speak in the smaraldian articles . none speaks more fully of the agreeableness of the form of government used in the ages after the apostles to the word of god ; then that excellent servant of god , as bishop downam often calls him , calvin doth : for in his iustitutions he speaks thus of the polity of the primitive church ; tametsi enim multos canones ediderunt illorum temporum episcopi quibus plus viderentur exprimere quàm sacris literis expressum esset ; ea tamen cautione totam suam oeconomiam composuerunt ad unicam illam verbi dei normam , ut facilè videas nihil ferè hac parte h●buisse à verbo dei alienum . although the bishops of those times did make many canons , wherein they did seem to express more then was in the word of god ; yet they used such caution and prudence in the establishing the churches polity according to the word of god , that hardly will any thing be found in it disagreeing to gods holy word . and afterwards speaking of the institution of arch-bishops and patriarchs , he saith it was ad-disciplinae conservationem , for preserving the churches discipline : and again , si rem omisso vocabulo intuemur , reperiemus veteres episcopos non aliam regendae ecclesiae formam voluisse fingere , ab ea quam deus verbo suo praescripsit , if we consider the matter its self of the churches polity , we shall find nothing in it discrepant from , or repugnant to that form which is laid down in the word of god. calvin then , what ever form of government he judged most suitable to the state and temper of the church wherein he was placed , was far from condemning that polity which was used in the primitive church by a difference as to degrees among the ministers of the gospel . he did not then judge any form of government to be so delivered in scriptures as unalterably to oblige all churches and ages to observe it . beza saith , he was so far from thinking that the humane order of episcopasy was brought into the church through rashness or ambition , that none can deny it to have been very usefull as long as bishops were good . and those that both will and can , let them enjoy it still . his words are these : absit autem , ut hunc ordinem , et si apostolica & mere divina dispositione non constitutum , tamen ut temere aut superbe invectum reprehendam ; cujus potius magnum usum fuisse quamdiu boni & sancti episcopi ecclesiis praefuerunt , quis inficiari possit ? fruantur igitur illo qui volent & poterunt . and elsewhere professeth all reverence , esteem , and honour to be due to all such modern bishops , who strive to imitate the example of the primitive bishops in a due reformation of the church of god , according to the rule of the word . and looks on it as a most false and impudent calumny of some that said , as though they intended to prescribe their form of government to all other churches ; as though they were like some ignorant fellows who think nothing good but what they do themselves . how this is reconcileable with the novell pretence of a ius divinum , i cannot understand . for certainly , if beza had judged that only form to be prescribed in the word which was used in geneva , it had been but his duty to have desired all other churches to conform to that . neither ought beza then to be looked on as out-going his master calvin in the opinion about the right of church-government . for we see he goes no further in it then calvin did . all that either of them maintained , was , that the form of government in use among them , was more agreeable to the primitive form , then the modern episcopacy was , and that episcopacy lay more open to pride , laziness , ambition , and tyranny , as they had seen and felt in the church of rome . therefore not to give occasion to snch incroachments upon the liberty of mens consciences , as were introduced by the tyranny of the roman bishops , they thought it the safest way to reduce the primitive parity ; but yet so , as to have an ecclesiastical senate for one church containing city and territories , as is evident at geneva , and that senate to have a president in it ; and whether that president should be for life , or only by course , they judged it an accidental and mutable thing : but that there should be one , essential and necessary . this is expresly and fully the judgement of that most reverend and learned man th. beza , as he declares it himself . essentialefuit in eo de quo hic agimus , quod ex dei ordinatione perpetud necesse fuit , est , & erit , ut in presbyterio quispiam & loco & dignitate primus actioni gubernandae praesit , cum eo quod ipsi divinitus attributum est jure . accidentale autem fuit , quod presbyteri in hac 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 alii aliis per vices initio succedebant ; qui 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 modus paulatim postea visus est mutandus , ut unus quispiam judicio caeterorum compresbyterorum delectus , presbyterio 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 esset , & permaneret . it will be worth our while truly to state the question of church government between the church of england , and that of geneva in the time of queen elizabeth , and thereby we shall see how , small the difference was between them . that the churches in the primitive times , did take in the christians in whole cities , and adjoyning territories , is acknowledged on both sides ; calvin and beza being both express in it , and the constitution of the church of geneva speaks as much . vnicuique civitati ( saith calvin ) erat attributa certa regio ; quae presbyteros inde sumeret , & velut corpori ecclesiae illius accenserentur . in oppido cujusque dioeceseos ( saith beza ) praecipuo , primus presbyter &c. in quotidianâ communi jurisdictione praeerat caeteris tum urbanis , tum aliis ejus regionis compresbyteris , i. e. toti dioecesi . that the government of the city did take in the city and territories , is likewise acknowledged by them . that for more convenient order , there was one to preside over the ecclesiastical senate , is confessed as essential by beza ; and calvin acknowledgeth that even in apostolical times , non eam fuisse tunc aequalitatem inter ecclesiae ministros , quin unus aliquis authoritate & consilio prae●sset . there was no such equality among the ministers of the church , but that some one was over the rest in authority and counsell . wherein then lay the difference for we have already seen that our great divines then , did not look upon their form of government as necessary , but only lawfull ; and calvin and beza , would not be thought to prescribe their form to other churches . all the difference then was , not whether their form of government was founded on divine right ? not whether episcopacy in the church was lawfull or no ? not whether diocesan churches were unlawfull ? or whether every congregation should have an ecclesiastical senate ? but , whether it were more agreeable to the primitive form , that the president of the ecclesiastical senate should have only an order among , or a degree above the senate its self ? but chiefly it was , whether in the present state of the reformed churches it were more convenient wholly to lay aside the form of government by bishops , which had been so much abused in the roman church : and to reduce all ministers of the gospel to an equality with only a presidency of order , thereby to free themselves from the imputation of ambition , and to prevent it ▪ in others ; or else it were more prudent only to retrench the abuses of episcopacy under the papacy , and to reduce it to that form wherein it was practiced in the church , before the tyranny and usurpation of the roman bishop had ingrossed all ecclesiastical power into his own hands ? the former part was embraced generally by the reformed churches , the latter by our church of england , so that the question was not about divine right , but about a matter of prudence ; not what form was setled by a law of christ ; but what form was suitable to the present state of the churches of the reformation . therefore we see none of these forraign divines did charge the government of this church with unlawfulness , but inconveniency , as it was a step to pride and ambition , and an occasion whereby men might do the church injury by the excess of their power , if they were not men of an excellent temper and moderation . thence that prediction of padre paule , that the church of england would then , find the inconveniency of episcopacy , when a high-spirited bishop should once come to rule that church ; and so beza when he had freed the bishops of the reformation from that imputation of lording it over their brethren , which he had charged the roman bishops with , yet he adds , that he would beg them rather to lay down their power , then to transmit that power to those after them , hanc ipsorum moderationem & aequitatem minimè forsan sequuturis , who it may be were not like to succeed them in their meekness and moderation . what just reason there was for such fears , or may be still , let those judge who are fittest to do it ; those i mean who have the power not only to redress , but prevent abuses incroaching by an irregular power . it was not then any unlawfulness in the government of episcopacy its self , but its lyableness to abuses , which made the reformed churches reduce modern episcopacy into a meer presidency of order , which was not so lyable to the same inconveniences . a clear evidence that they judged not the government unlawfull , is , their often profession of a ready and chearfull obedience to bishops , if they would embrace the gospel , and stand up in defence of the true doctrine . for which we have the testimony of george prince of anhalt , in the preface to his sermon about false prophets , speaking of bishops and arch-bishops . utinam sicut nomina gerunt & titulos , ita se reipsa praestarent episcopos ecclesia . utinam evangelio docerent consona , ipsoque ecclesias fideliter regerent . o quam libenter , quantaque cum cordis laetitia , pro episcopis ipsos habere , revereri , morem gerere , debitam jurisdictionem , & ordinationem eis tribuere , eaque sine recusatione frui vellemus : id quod nos semper , & d. lutherus etiam saepissime tam ore quam scriptis , imo & in concione publica in cathedrali templ● marsburgensi contestati promisimus● he professeth it to be both his own judgement and luthers , that if bishops would but teach and rule their churches according to the word of god , they would obey them with all chearfulness and joy of heart . to the same purpose melancthon writing to camerarius ; by what right or law may we dissolve the ecclesiastical polity , if the bishops will grant us that which in reason they ought to grant ? and though it were lawful for us so to do , yet surely it were not expedient . luther was ever of this opinion . the same is professed by calvin , and that according to his temper in a higher manner ; verum autem nobis si contribuant hierarchiam in qua emineant episcopi , ut christo subesse non recusent , ut ab illo tanquam ab unico capite pendeant , & ad ipsum referantur , in qua si fraternam charitatem inter se colant , & non alio modo quam ejus veritate colligati , tum vero nullo non anathemate dignos fatemur , si qui erunt , qui eam non reverenter & sumnia cum obedientia observent . if bishops would but submit themselves to christ , those that would not then submit themselves to them , he thinks there is no anathema of which they are not worthy . iacobus heerbrandus , divinity professor at tubinge , professeth it to be the most found constitution of church-government , wherein every diocess had its bishop , and every province an arch-bishop . saluberrimum esset si singulae provinciae suos episcopos , & episcopi suos archiepiscopos haberent . hemingius : acknowledgeth a disparity among church officers , and accounts it a piece of barbarism to remove it . quanquam enim potestas omnium eadem est ministrorum , quantum ad spiritualem jurisdictionem atti●et ; tamen dispares dignitatis ordines & gradus sunt ; idque partim jure divino , partim ecclesia approbatione . but he qualifies what he had said of ius divinum by his following words ; ecclesia cui dominus potestatem dedit in aedificationem , ordinem ministrorum instituit pro commodo suo , ut omnia sint rite ordinata ad instaurationem corporis christi . hinc ecclesia purior secuta tempora apostolorum , fecit alios patriarchas , alios chorepiscopos , alios pastores & catechetas ; and afterwards , inter ministros agnoscit etiam ecclesia nostra gradus dignitatis , & ordines pro diversitate donorum , laborum magnitudine , ac vocationum diversitate ; ac judicat , barbaricum esse de ecclesia hunc ordinem tollere velle . three things he placeth a superiority of dignity in ; excellency of gifts , greatness of labours , difference of calling . and the truth is , the two former ought to be the measure of dignity in the church , the eminency of mens abilities , and the abundance of their labours above others . the necessity of a superintendent , or an inspector over other ministers , is largely discovered by zepper de politeid ecclesiastica , who likewise agrees with the former divines in his judgement of the first institution of episcopacy . eadem officia in primitiva etiam ecclesia , post apostolorum tempora in usu manserunt , paucis , quibusdam gradibus , pro illorum temporum necessitate additis , qui tamen nihil fere à mente d. pauli & verbi divini alienum habuerunt . whereby he both assert it to be in the power of the church to add distinct degrees from what were in the primitive church , and that such so added , are no wayes repugnant to the word of god. according to this judgement of their divines is the practice of the forraign protestant churches . in sweden there is one arch-bishop , and seven bishops : and so in denmark , though not with so great authority in holstein , pomeren , mecklenburgh , brunswicke , luneburgh , bremen , oldenburgh , east frieseland , hessen , saxony , and all the upper part of germany and the protestant imperial cities , church government is in the hands of super-intendents . in the palatinate they had inspectores and praepositi , over which was the ecclesiastical consistory of three clergy men , and three counsellors of state with their president : and so they have their praepositos in wetteraw , hessen and anhalt . in transylvania , polonia , and bohemia , they have their seniores enjoying the same power with anclent bishops . so that we see all these reformed churches , and divines , although they acknowledge no such thing as a divine right of episcopacy , but stiffely maintain ieromes opinion of the primitive equality of gospel ministers ; yet they are so far from accounting it unlawfull to have some church officers acting in a higher degree above others , that they themselves embrace it under different names and titles , in order to the peace , unity , and government of their several churches ; whereby they give us an evident demonstration that they looked not upon the primitive form to be immutable , but that the orders and degrees of ministers is only a prudential thing , and left in the liberty of every particular church , to be determined according to their tendency to preserve the peace and settlement of a church . we come in the last place to those who hold episcopacy to be the primitive form , yet not unalterably binding all churches and places , but that those churches who are without it , are truly constituted churches ; and ministers are lawfully ordained by meer presbyters . this is largely proved by mr. francis mason , in his excellent defence of the ordination of ministers beyond the seas : to which i refer the reader . only i shall shew out of him how the state of the question about the ius divinum of episcopacy is formed . first , if by jure divino you mean that which is according to scripture , then the preheminence of bishops is jure divino ; for it hath been already proved to be according to scripture . secondly , if by jure divino you mean the ordinance of god , in this sense also it may be said to be jure divino . for it is an ordinance of the apostles , whereunto they were directed by gods spirit , even by the spirit of prophecy , and consequently the ordinance of god. but if by jure divino you understand a law and commandment of god , binding all christian churches universally , perpetually , unchangeably , and with such absolute necessity , that no other form of regiment may in any case be admitted ; in this sense neither may we grant it , nor yet can you prove it to be jure divino . whereby we see this learned and moderate man was far from unchurching all who wanted bishops ; and absolutely declares , that though he look on episcopacy as an apostolical institution , yet that no unalterable divine right is founded thereupon . so before him the both learned and pious bishop g. downham explains himself concerning the right of episcopacy , in these remarkable words : though in respect of the first institution , there is small difference between an apostolical and divine ordinance , because what was , ordained by the apostles , proceeded from god ( in which sense , and no other , i do hold the episcopal function to be a divine ordinance , i mean in respect of of the first institution ) yet in respect of perpetuity , difference by some is made between those things which be divini , and those which be apostolici juris ; the former in their understanding being perpetually , generally , and immutably necessary : the latter not so . so that the meaning of my defence plainly i● , that the episcopal government hath this commendation above other forms of ecclesiastical government , that in respect of the first institution ; it is a divine ordinance ; but that it should be such a divine ordinance as should be generally , perpetually , immutably , necessarily observed , so as no other form of government may in no case be admitted , i did not take upon me to maintain : with more to the same purpose in several places of that defence . and from hence it is acknowledged by the stoutest champions for episcopacy , before these late unhappy divisions , that ordination performed by presbyters in cases of necessity is valid ; which i have already shewed doth evidently prove that episcopal government is not founded upon any unalterable divine right : for which purpose many evidences are produced from dr. field of the church , lib. . c. b. downam , l. . c. . b. iew●l , p. . p. . saravia . cap. . p. . . b. alley , praelect . . & . b. pilkinton , b. bridges , b. bilson , d. nowel . b. davenant , b. prideaux , b. andrews , and others : by our reverend and learned m. baxter in his christian concord , to whom may be added the late most reverend and eminent the bishop of durham , apolog. cathol . p. . l. . c. . and the primat of armagh , whose judgement is well known as to the point of ordination . so much may suffice to shew that both those who hold an equality among ministers to be the apostolical form , and those that do hold episcopacy to have been it , do yet both of them ag●ee at last in this ; that no one form is setled by an unalterable law of christ , nor consequently founded upon divine right . for the former , notwithstanding their opinion of the primitive form , do hold episcopacy lawfull ; and the latter , who hold episcopacy to have been the primitive form , do not hold it perpetually and immutably necessary , but that presbyters ( where bishops cannot be had ) may lawfully discharge the offices belonging to bishops ; both which concessions do necessarily destroy the perpetual divine right of that form of government they assert : which is the thing i have been so long in proving , and i hope made it evident to any unprejudicated mind . having laid down this now as a sure foundation for peace and union , it were a very easie matter to improve it , in order to an accommodation of our present differences about church government . i shall only lay down three general principles deducible from hence , and leave the whole to the mature consideration of the lovers of truth and peace . the first principle , is , that prudence must be used in setling the government of the church . this hath been the whole design of this treatise , to prove that the form of church-government is a meer matter of prudence , regulated by the word of god. but i need not insist on the arguments already brought to prove it ; for , as far as i can find , although the several parties in their contentions with one another plead for divine right ; yet when any one of them comes to settle their own particular form , they are fain to call in the help of prudence , even in things supposed by the several parties , as necessary to the establishment of their own form. the congregational men may despair of ever finding elective synods , an explicite church-covenant , or positive signs of grace in admission of church-members in any law of christ : nay , they will not generally plead for any more for them , then general rules of scripture , fine similitudes , and analogies , and evidence of natural reason ; and what are all these at last to an express law of christ , without which it was pretended nothing was to be done in the church of god ? the presbyterians seem more generally to own the use of general rules , and the light of nature , in order to the form of church government , as in the subordination of courts , classical assemblies ; and the more moderate sort , as to lay elders . the episcopal men will hardly find any evidence in scripture , or the practice of the apostles , for churches consisting of many fixed congregations for worship , under the charge of one person ; nor in the primitive church , for the ordination of a bishop without the preceding election of the clergy , and at least consent and approbation of the people ; and neither in scripture , nor antiquity , the least footstep of a delegation of church-power . so that upon the matter at last , all of them make use of those things in church government , which have no other foundation but the principles of humane prudence , guided by the scriptures ; and it were well if that were observed still . the second principle is , that form of government is the best according to principles of christian prudence , which comes the nearest to apostolical practice , and tends most to the advancing the peace and unity of the church of god. what that form is , i presume not to define and determine , but leave it to be gather'd from the evidence of scripture and antiquity , as to the primitive practice ; and from the nature , state , and condition of that church wherein it is to be setled , as to its tendency to the advancement of peace and unity in it . in order to the finding out of which , that proposal of his late most excellent majesty of glorious memory , is most highly just and reasonable . his majesty thinketh it well worthy the studies and endeavours of divines of both opinions , laying aside emulation and private interests , to reduce episcopacy and presbyteri● into such a well-proportion'd form of superiority and subordination , as may best resemble the apostolical and primitive times , so far forth as the different condition of the times , and the exigences of all considerable circumstances will admit . if this proposal be embraced , as there is no reason why it should not ; then , all such things must be retrieved which were unquestionably of the primitive practice , but have been grown out of use through the length and corruption of times . such are the restoring of the presbyteries of several churches , as the senate to the bishop , with whole counsel and advice all things were done in the primitive church . the contracting of dioceses into such a compass as may be fitted for the personal inspection of the bishop , and care of himself and the senate ; the placing of bishops in all great towns of resort , especially county towns ; that according to the ancient course of the church , its government may be proportioned to the civil government . the constant preaching of the bishop in some churches of his charge , and residence in his diocese ; the solemnity of ordinations , with the consent of the people ; the observing provincial synods twice every year . the employing of none in judging church matters but the clergy . these are things unquestionably of the primitive practice , and no argument can be drawn from the present state of things , why they are not as much , if not more necessary then ever . and therefore all who appeal to the practice of the primitive church , must condemn themselves , if they justifie the neglect of them . but i only touch at these things , my design being only to lay a foundation for a happy union . lastly , what form of government is determined by lawfull authority in the church of god , ought so far to be submitted to , as it contains nothing repugnant to the word of god. so that let mens judgements be what they will concerning the primitive form , seeing it hath been proved , that that form doth not bind unalterably and necessarily , it remains that the determining of the form of government is a matter of liberty in the church ; and what is so may be determined by lawfull authority ; and what is so determined by that authority , doth bind men to obedience , as hath been proved by the . hypothesis , in the entrance of this treatise . i conclude all with this earnest desire , that the wise and gracious god would send us one heart and one way , that he would be the composer of our differences , and the repairer of our breaches , that of our strange divisions and unchristian animosities ; while we pretend to serve the prince of peace , we may at last see , the end glory to god on high , on earth peace , good will towards men , luke . . a discourse concerning the power of excommunication in a christian church . the name of power in a church explained . the mistake of which , the foundation of erastianism . the notion of the church opened , as it is the subject of power . the church proved to be a society distinct from the common-wealth ; by reason of its different nature , and divine institution ; distinct officers , different rights , and ends , and peculiar offences . the power of the church doth not arise from me●r confederation . the churches power founded on the nature of the christian society , and not on particular precepts . the power of church-officers not meerly doctrinal , proved by several arguments . church-power as to particular persons antecedent to confederation . the power of the keys relates to baptism . the churches power extends to excommunication : what it is , and what grounds it had under the law. no exclusion from temple-worship among the iews . excommunication necessary in a christian church , because of the conditions supposed to communion in it . of the incestuous person , and the grounds of the apostolical censure . objections against excommunication answered . the fundamental rights of the church continue after its being incorporated into the civil state. the magistrates power , as to excommunication , cleared . it is a matter of daily observation and experience in the world , how hard it is to keep the eyes of the understanding clear in its judgement of things , when it is too far engaged in the dust of controversie . it being so very difficult to well manage an impetuous pursuit after any opinion ; nothing being more common than to see men out-run their mark , and through the force of their speed to be carried as far beyond it , as others in their opinion fall short of it . there is certainly a kind of ebriety of the mind , as well as of the body , which makes it so unstable and pendulous , that it oft times reels from one extream ▪ unto the quite contrary . this as it is obvious in most eager controvertists of all ages , so especially in such , who have discovered the ●alsity of an opinion they were once confident of , which they think they can never after run far enough from : so that while they start at an apparition they so much dread , they run into those untroden paths , wherein they lose both themselves and the truth they sought for . thus we find it to be in the present controversie , for many out of their just zeal against the extravagancies of those who scrued up church-power to so high a peg , that it was thought to make perpetual discord with the common wealth , could never think themselves free from so great an inconvenience , till they had melted down all spiritual power into the civil state , and dissolved the church into the common-wealth . but that the world way see i have not been more forward to assert the just power of the magistrate in ecclesiasticals , as well as civils , than to defend the fundamental rights of the church . i have taken this opportunity , more fully to explain and vindicate that part of the churches-power , which lies in reference to offenders ? it being the main thing struck at by those who are the followers of that noted physician , who handled the church so ill , as to deprive her of her expulsive faculty of noxious humours , and so left her under a miserere meî . i shall therefore endeavour to give the church her due , as well as caesar his , by making good this following principle or hypothesis , upon which the whole hinge of this controversie turns , viz. that the power of inflicting censure , upon offenders in a christian church , is a fundamental right , resu●●●●g from the constitution of the church , as a society by jesus christ ; and that the seat of this power is in those officers of the church , who have derived their power originally from the founder of this society , and act by vertue of the laws of it . for the clear stating of this controversie , it will be necessary to explain , what that power is , which i attribute to the church , and in what notion the church is to be considered as it exerciseth this power . first , concerning the proper notion of power ; by it i cannot see any thing else to be understood , than a right of governing or ordering things which belong to a society . and so power implies onely a moral faculty in the person enjoying it , to take care ne quid civitas detrimenti capiat , whereby it is evident that every well constituted society must suppose a power within its self of ordering things belonging to its welfare , or else it were impossible , either the being , or the rights and priviledges of a society could be long preserved . power then in its general and abstracted notion , doth not necessarily import either meer authority , or proper coaction ; for these , to any impartial judgement , will appear to be rather the several modes whereby power is exercised , than any proper ingredients of the specifick nature of it : which ; in general , imports no more then a right to govern a constituted society ; but how that right shall be exercised , must be resolved not from the notion of power , but from the nature and constitution of that particular society in which it is lodged and inherent . it appears then from hence to be a great mistake and abuse of well-natured readers , when all power is necessarily restrained , either to that which is properly co●rcive , or to that which is meerly arbitrary , and onely from consent . the original of which mistake is , the stating the notion of power from the use of the word , either in ancient roman authours , or else in the civil laws , both which are freely acknowledged to be strange● to the exercise of any other power , than that which i● meerly authoritative and perswasive , or that which is coactive and penal . the ground of which is , because they were ignorant of any other way of conveyance of power , besides external force , and arbitrary consent ; the one in those called legal societies , or civitates , the other collegia and hetaeriae . but to as that do acknowledge that god hath a right of commanding men to what duty he please himself , and appointing a society upon what terms best please him , and giving a power to particular persons to govern that society , in what way shall tend most to advance the honour of such a society , may easily be made appear , that there is a kind of power neither properly coactive , nor meerly arbitrary , viz. such a one as immediately results from divine institution , and doth suppose consent to submit to it as a necessary duty in all the members of this society . this power , it is evident , is not meerly arbitrary either in the governours or members : for , the governours derive their power or right of governing from the institution of christ , and are to be regulated by his laws in the execution of it ; and the members , though their consent be necessarily supposed , yet that consent is a duty in them , and that duty doth imply their submission to the rulers of this society : neither can this power be called coactive , in the ●ense it is commonly taken : for coactive power , and external force are necessary correlates to each other , but we suppose no such thing as a power of outward force to be given to the church as such , for that properly belongs to a common-wealth . but the power which i suppose to be lodged in the church , is such a power as depends upon a law of a superiour , giving right to govern , to particular persons over such a society , and making it the duty of all members of it to submit unto it , upon no other penalties , then the exclusion of them from the priviledges , which that society enjoyes . so that supposing such a society as the church is , to be of divine institution , and that christ hath appointed officers to rule it , it necessarily follows , that those officer● must derive their power , i. e. their right of governing this society , not meerly from consent and confederation of parties , but from that divine institution , on which the society depends . the ●●ht of understanding the right notion of power in the sense here ●●● down , is certainly the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of erastianism , and that which hath given occasion to so many to question any such thing as power in the church , especially , when the more zealous then judicious defenders of it have rather chosen to hang it upon some doubtfull places of scripture , then on the very natur● and constitution of the christian church , as a society instituted by iesus christ. this being then the nature of power in general , it is i suppose clear , that an outward coactive force is not necessary in order to it ▪ for if some may have a right to govern and others may be obliged to obedience to those persons antecedently , to any civil constitution ; then such persons have a just power to inflict censures upon such as transgress the rules of the society , without any outward force . it is here very impertinent to dispute , what effects such censures can have upon wilful persons without a coactive power ; if i can prove , that there is a right to inflict them in church-officers , and an obligation to submit to them in all offenders ; i am not to trouble my self with the event of such things as depend upon divine institutions . i know it is the great objection of the followers of erastus , that church ▪ censures are inflicted upon persons unwilling to receive them , and therefore must imply external and coactive force , which is repugnant to the nature of a church . but this admits ( according to the principles here established ) of a very easie solution ; for i deny not , that church power goes upon consent , but then it 's very plain here was an antecedent consent to submit to censures in the very entrance into this society , which is sufficient to denominate it a voluntary act of the persons undergoing it ; and my reason is this , every person entring into a society , parts with his own freedom and liberty , as to matters concerning the governing of it , and professeth submission to the rules and orders of it : now a man having parted with his freedom already , cannot reassume it when he please , for , then , he is under an obligation to stand to the covenants made at his entrance ; and cons●quently his undergoing what shall be laid upon him by the lawes of this society , must be supposed to be voluntary , as depending upon his consent at first entrance , which in all societies must be supposed to hold still , else there would follow nothing but confusion in all societies in the world , if every man were at liberty to break his covenants when any thing comes to lye upon him according to the rules of the society , which he out of some private design would be unwilling to undergo . thus much may serve to settle aright the notion of power ; the want of understanding which , hath caused all the confusion of this controversie . the next thing is , in what notion we are to consider the church , which is made the subject of this power ? as to which we are to consider this power ; either as to its right , or in actu primo ; or as to its exercise , or in actu secundo : now if we take this power as to the fundamental right of it ; then it belongs to that universal church of ▪ christ , which subsists as a visible society , by vertue of that law of christ , which makes an owning the profession of christianity the duty of all church ▪ members if we consider this power in the exercise of it , then ( it being impossible that the universall church should perform the executive part of this power relating to offences ) i suppose it lodged in that particular society of christians , which are united together in one body in the community of the s●me government ; but yet , so , as that the administration of this power , doth not belong to the body of the society considered complexly , but to those officers in it , whose care and charge it is , to have a peculiar oversight and inspection over the church , and to redress all disorders in it . thus the visive faculty is fundamentally lodged in the soul , yet all exterior acts of sight are performed by the eyes , which are the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 overseers of the body , as the other are of the church , so that the exercise and administration of this power , belongs to the speciall officers and governours of the church ; none else being capable of exercising this power of the church as such but they on whom it is settled by the founder of the church it 's self . this society of the church may be again considered ▪ either as subsisting without any influence from the civil power , or as it is owned by , and incorporated into a christian state. i therefore demand , whether it be absolutely necessary for the subsistence of this christian society , to be upheld by the civil power , or no ▪ and certainly none who consider the first and purest ages of the christian church , can give any entertainment to the affirmative , because then the church flourished in it's greatest purity , not onely when not upheld , but when most violently opposed by the civil power ; if so then it 's being united with the civil state is onely accidental as to the constitution a church ; and if this be onely accidental ; then it must be supposed furnished with every thing requisite to it 's well ordering accidentally to any such union , and abstractly from it . for can we imagine our bl●ssed saviour should institute a society , and leave it destitute of means to uphold it's self , unless it fell into the hands of the civil power ? or that he left every thing tending thereto , meerly to prudence , and the arbitrary constitutions of the persons joyning together in this society ? did our saviour take care there should be a society , and not provide for means to uphold it ? nay , it is evident , he not onely appointed a society , but officers to rule it . had those officers then a right to govern it or no , by vertue of christs institution of them ? if not , they were rather bibuli than caesares , cyphers than consuls in the church of god. if they had a power to govern , doth not that necessarily imply a right to inflict censures on ▪ offenders , unless we will suppose that either there can be no offenders in a christian church , or that those offenders do not v●olate the laws of the society , or there be some prohibition for them to exercise their power over them ( which is to give power with one hand , and take it away with the other ) or that this power cannot extend so far as to exclude any from the priviledges of the church : which is the thing to be discussed . having thus cleared our way , i now come to the resolution of the question its self , in order to which i shall endeavour to demonstrate , with what evidence the subj●ct is capable of , these following things . first , that the church is a peculiar society in its own nature , distinct from the common-wealth . secondly , that the power of the church over its members doth not arise from meer confederation or consent of parties . thirdly , that this power of the church doth extend to the exclusion of offenders from the priviledges of it . fourthly , that the fundamental rights of the church do not escheat to the common-wealth upon ▪ their being united in a christian state. if these principles be established , the churches power will stand upon them , as on a firm and unmoveable basis. i begin with the first . that the church is a peculiar society in its own nature , distinct from the common-wealth , which i prove by these arguments . . those societies , which are capable of subsisting apart from each other , are really , and in their own nature distinct from one another : but so it is with the church and common wealth . for there can be no greater evidence of a reall distinction than mutual separation ; and i think the proving the possibility of the souls existing , separate from the body , is one of the strongest arguments to prove it to be a substance really distinct from the body , to which it is united ; although we are often fain to go the other way to work , and to prove possibility of separation from other arguments evincing the soul to be a distinct substance ; but the reason of that is for want of evidence as to the state of separate souls , and thei● visible existence , which is repugnant to the immateriality of their natures . but now , as to the matter in hand , we have all evidence desirable ; for we are not put to prove possibility of separation , meerly from the different constitution of the thing● united , but we have evidence to sense of it , that the church hath subsisted when it hath been not onely separated from , but persecuted by all civil power . it is with many men as to the union of church and state , as it is with others , as to the union of the soul and body : when they observe how close the union is , and how much the soul makes use of the animal spirits in most of its operations , and how great a sympathy there is between them , that , like hippocrates his twins , they laugh and weep together , they are shrewdly put to it , how to fancy the soul to be any thing else than a more vigorous mode of matter ; so these observing how close an union and dependence there is between the church and state in a christian common-wealth , and how much the church is beholding to the civil power in the administration of its functions , are apt to think that the church is nothing but a higher mode of a common-wealth , considered as christian. but when it is so evident that the church hath , and may subsist , supposing it abstracted from all civil power , it may be a sufficient demonstration that however neer they may be when united , yet they are really , and in their own nature , distinct from each other . which was the thing to be proved . . those are distinct societies , which have every thing distinct in their nature from each other , which belong to the constitution or government of them ; but this is evident , as to the church and common-wealth , which will appear , because their charter is distinct , or that which gives them their being as a society : civil societies are founded upon the necessity of particular mens parting with their peculiar rights , for the preservation of themselves , which was the impulsive cause of their entring into societies , but that which actually spe●ks them to be a society is the mutual consent of the several partyes joyning together , whereby they make themselves to bee one body ; and to have one common interest . so cicero de repub. defines populus , to bee coe'us multitudinis , juris consensu & utilitatis communione sociatus . there is no doubt , but gods general providence , is as evidently seen in bringing the world into societies , and making them live under government , as in disposing all particular events which happen in those societies ; but yet the way , which providence useth in the constitution of these societies , is by inclining men to consent to associate for their mutual benefit and advantage : so that natural reason consulting for the good of mankind , as to those rights which men enjoy in common with each other , was the main foundation upon which all civil societies were erected . wee finde no positive law enacti●g the beeing of civil societies , because nature its self would prompt men for their own conveniencies to enter into them . but the ground and foundation of that society , which we call a church , is a matter which natural reason and common notions can never reach to : and therefore an ●ssociating for the preserving of such , may be a philosophical society , but a christian it cannot be : and they that would make a christian church to be nothing else but a society of essens , or an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of pythagoreans , do either not understand , or not consider whereon this christian society is founded ; for it is evident they look on it as a meerly voluntary thing , that is not at all setled by any divine positive law. the truth is , there is no principle more consistent with the opinion of those who deny any church power in a christian state , then this is , and it is that , which every one , who will make good his ground must be driven to ; for it is evident , that in matters meerly voluntary , and depending only on confederation , such things being lyable to a magistrates power , there can be no plea from mutual consent to justifie any opposition to supream authority in a common wealth . but , then how such persons can bee christians , when the magistrates would have them to bee otherwise , i cannot understand ; nor how the primitive martyrs were any other then a company of fools or mad-men , who would hazard their lives , for that which was a meer arbitrary thing , and which they had no necessary obligation upon them to profess . mistake me not , i speak not here of meer acts of discipline , but of the duty of outward professing christianity ; if this be a duty , then a christian society is setled by a positive law , if it be not a duty , then they are fools who suffer for it : so that this question resolved into its principles , leads us higher than we think for , and the main thing in debate must bee , whether there be an obligation upon conscience for men to associa●e in the profession of christianity or no ? if there be , then the church , which is nothing else but such an association , is established upon a positive law of christ ; if there be not , then those inconveniences follow , which are already mentioned . wee are told indeed by the leviathan with confidence enough , that no precepts of the gospel are law , till enacted by civil authority ; but it is little wonder , that hee , who thinks an immaterial substance implyes a contradiction , should think as much of calling any thing a law , but what hath a civil sanction . but i suppose all those who dare freely own a supream and infinite essence to have been the creator , and to be the ruler of the world , will acknowledge his power to oblige conscience , without being beholding to his own creature to enact his laws , that men might bee bound to obey them . was the great god sain to bee be holding to the civil authority hee had over the iewish common wealth ( their government being a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) to make his laws obligatory to the consciences of the iews ? what , had not they their beings from god ? and can there be any greater ground of obligation to obedience , than from thence ? whence comes civil power to have any right to oblige men more , than god , considered as governour of the world , can have ? can there be indeed no other laws according to the leviathans hypothesis , but only the law of nature and civil laws ? but i pray whence comes the obligation to either of these , that these are not as arbitrary , as all other agreements are ? and is it not as strong a dictate of nature as any can bee ( supposing that there is a god ) that a creature which receives its being from another , should be bound to obey him , not only in the resultancies of his own nature , but with the arbitrary constitutions of his will : was adam bound to obey god or no , as to that positive precept of eating the forbidden fruit , if no civil sanction had been added to that law ? the truth is , such hypotheses as these are , when they are followed close home , will be sound to kennel in that black den , from whence they are loath to be thought to have proceeded . and now , supposing that every full declaration of the will of christ , as to any positive institution , hath the force and power of a law upon the consciences of all , to whom it is sufficiently proposed : i proceed to make appear , that such a divine positive laew there is , for the existence of a church , as a visible body and society in the world ; by which i am far from meaning such a conspicuous society , that must continue in a perpetual visibility in the same place ; i find not the least intimation of any such thing in scripture ; but that there shall alwayes bee somewhere or other , in the world , a society owning and professing christianity , may bee easily deduced from thence ; and especially on this account , that our saviour hath required this , as one of the conditions in order to eternal felicity , that all those who believe in their hearts , that iesus is the christ , must likewise confess him with their mouths to the world : and therefore , as long at there are men to believe in christ , there must be men that will not be ashamed to associate , on the account of the doctrine he hath promulged to the world . that one phrase in the new testament , so frequently used by our blessed saviour , of the kingdome of heaven ( importing a gospel-state ) doth evidently declare a society , which was constituted by him , on the principles of the gospel covenant . wherefore should our saviour call disciples , and make apostles , and send them abroad with full commission to gather and initiate disciples by baptism ; did he not intend a visible society for his church ? had it not been enough for men to have cordially believed the truth of the gospel , but they must bee entred in a solemn visible way , and joyn in participation of visible symbols of bread and wine , but that our saviour required external profession and society in the gospel as a necessary duty , in order to obtaining the priviledges conveyed by his magna charta in the gospel . i would fain know by what argument wee can prove , that any humane legislator , did ever intend a common wealth to be governed according to his mode , by which we cannot prove that christ by a positive law , did command such a society , as should be governed in a visible manner , as other societies are ? did he not appoint officers himself in the church , and that of many ranks and degrees ? did he not invest those officers with authority to rule his church ? is it not laid as a charge on them , to take heed to that flock , over which god had made them over-seers ? are there not rules laid down for the peculiar exercise of their government over the church in all the parts of it ? were not these officers admitted into the●● function by a most solemn visible rite of imposition of hands ? and are all these solemn transactions a meer piece of sacred pageantry ? and they will appear to bee little more , if the society of the church bee a meer arbitrary thing , depending only upon consent and confederation , and not subsisting by vertue of any charter from christ , or some positive law , requiring all christians to joyn in church society together . but if now from hence it appears ( as certainly it cannot but appear ) that this society of the church doth subsist by vertue of a divine positive law , then it must of necessity be distinct from a civil society , and that on these accounts : first , because there is an antecedent obligation on conscience to associate on the account of christianity , whether humane laws prohibit or command it . from whence , of necessity it follows , that the constitution of the church is really different from that of the commonwealth ; because whether the common wealth be for , or against this society , all that own it are bound to profess it openly , and declare themselves members of it . whereas , were the church and commonwealth really and formally the same , all obligation to church society would arise meerly from the legislative power of the common wealth . but now there being a divine law , binding in conscience , whose obligation cannot bee superseded by any humane law , it is plain and evident , where are such vastly different obligations , there are different powers ; and in this sense i know no incongruity , in admitting imperium in imperio , if by it wee understand no external coactive power , but an internal power laying obligation on conscience , distinct from the power lodged in a commonwealth considered as such . an outward coactive power was alwayes disowned by christ , but certainly not an internal power over conscience to oblige all his disciples to what duties hee thought fit . secondly . i argue from those officers , whose rights to govern this society are founded on that charter , whereby the society it self subsists . now i would willingly know why , when our saviour disowned all outward power in the world , yet hee should constitute a society , and appoint officers in it , did hee not intend a peculiar distinct society from the other societies of the world . and therefore the argument frequently used against church-power , because it hath no outward force with it by the constitution of christ , is a strong argument to me of the peculiarity of a christian society from a commonwealth ; because christ so instituted it , as not to have it ruled at first by any outward force or power . when christ saith , his kingdome was not of this world ; he implies , that he had a society that was governed by his laws in the world , yet distinct from all mundane societies : had not our saviour intended his church to have been a peculiar society distinct from a commonwealth , it is hard to conceive why our saviour should interdict the apostles the use of a civil coactive power : or why instead of sending abroad apostles to preach the gospel , hee did not employ the governours of commonwealths to have inforced christianity by laws and temporal edicts , and the several magistrates to have impowred several persons under them to preach the gospel in their several territories ? and can any thing bee more plain , by our saviours taking a contrary course , than that hee intended a church society to bee distinct from civil , and the power belonging to it ( as well as the officers ) to bee of a different nature from that which is settled in a commonwealth . i here suppose , that christ hath by a positive law established the government of his church upon officers of his own appointment ; which i have largely prove ●●sewhere , and therefore suppose it now . thirdly , i argu●●●om the peculiar rights belonging to these societies : for if every one born in the commonwealth , have not thereby a right to the priviledges of the church ; nor every one by being of the church , any right to the benefits of the commonwealth , it must necessarily follow , that these are distinct from one another . if any one by being of the common-wealth , hath right to church-priviledges , then every one born in a common-wealth may challenge a right to the lords supper without baptism , or open professing christianity , which i cannot think any will be very ready to grant . now there being by divine appointment the several rights of baptism and the lords supper , as peculiar badges of the church as a visible society , it is evident , christ did intend it a society distinct from the common wealth . fourthly , i argue from the different ends of these societies . a common-wealth is constituted for civil ends , and the church for spiritual : for ends are to be judged by the primary constitution , but now it is plain , the end of civil society is for preservation of mens rights as men ( therefore magistracy is called by st. peter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) : but this christian society doth not respect men under the connotation of men but as christians . the answer given to this is very short and insufficient , when it is said , that every man in a commonwealth , is to act upon spiritual accounts and ends : for there is a great deal of difference between christianities having an influence upon mens actings in a commonwealth , and making a society the same with a commonwealth . to argue therefore from one to another , is a shortness of discourse i cannot but wonder at : unless it could be proved , that christianity aymed at nothing else but regulating men in the affairs of a commonwealth , which is a task i suppose will not be undertaken . lastly , i argue from the peculiar offences against this society , which are , or ●ay bee distinct from those against a commonwealth . i deny not , but most times they are the same ; but frequently they differ , and when they are the same , yet the consideration of them is different in the church and common wealth , for which i shall suppose the six arguments produced in the last chapter of the first part to stand good , which will strongly hold to ex●●●●unication in the christian church , though there produce 〈…〉 ly for the iewish . i would fain know what is to bee done in many offences , known to bee against the laws of christ , and which tend to the dishonour of the christian society , which the civil and municipal laws , either do not , or may not take cognizance of ? thus much may serve , as i think to make evident , that the church in its own nature , is a peculiar society distinct from a commonwealth , which was the first proposition to bee proved . the second is , that the power of the church over it's members in case of offences , doth not arise meerly from confederation and consent , though it doth suppose it . this church power may be considered two wayes . either , first , as it implyes the right in some of inflicting censures . or secondly , as it implyes in others , the duty of submitting to censures inflicted ; now as to both these , i shall prove that their original is higher than meer confederation . . as to the right of inflicting censures on these accounts . first , what ever society doth subsist by vertue of a divine constitution , doth by vertue thereof derive all power for it's preservation , in peace , unity , and purity ; but it is plain , that a power of censuring offenders , is necessary for the churches preservation in peace and purity ; and it is already proved , that the church hath its charter from christ , and therefore from him it hath a power to inflict punishments on offenders , suitable to the nature of the society they are of . i am very prone to think that the ground of all the mistakes on this subject have risen from hence , that some , imprudently enough , have fixt the original of this power on some ambiguous places of scripture , which may , and it may bee , ought to bee taken in a different sense ; and their adversaries , finding those places weak and insufficient proofs of such a power , have from thence rejected any such kind of power at all ; but certainly , if wee should reject every truth that is weakly proved by some who have undertaken it , i know no opinion would bid so sai● for acceptance as scepticism , and that in reference to many weighty and important truth● ; for how weakly have some proved the existence of a deity , the immortality of the soul , and the truth of the scriptures , by such arguments , that if it were enough to overthro●● an opinion to bee able to answer some arguments brought for it , atheisme it self would become plausible . it can be then no evidence , that a thing is not true , because some arguments will not prove it ; and truly , as to the matter in hand , i am fully of the opinion of the excellent h. grotius , speaking of excommunication in the christian church : neque ad●am r●m peculiare praeceptum desideratur , eum ecclestae coetu , à christo semel constituto , omnia illa imperata censeri debent , sine quibus ejus coeiûs , puritas retineri non potest . and therefore men spend needless pains to prove an institution of this power by some positive precept , when christs founding his church as a peculiar society , is sufficient proof hee hath endowed it with this fundamental right , without which the society , were arena sino calce , a company of persons without any common tye of union among them ; for if there bee any such union , it must depend on some conditions , to bee performed by the members of that society , which how could they require from them , if they have not power to exclude them upon non performance ? . i prove the divine original of this power from the special appointment and designation of particular officers by iesus christ , for the ruling of this society . now i say , that law which provides there shall bee officers to govern , doth give them power to govern , suitably to the nature of their society : either then you must deny , that christ hath by an unalterable institution appointed a gospel ministry , or that this ministry hath no power in the church , or that their power extends not to excommunication . the first i have already proved , the second follows from their appointment : for by all the titles given to church officers in scripture , it appears they had a power over the church , ( as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ) all which as you well know , do import a right to govern the society over which they are set . and that this power should not extend to a power to exclude convict offenders , seems very strange , when no other punishment can be more suitable to the nature of the society than this is ; which is a debarring him from the priviledges of that society , which the offender hath so much dishonoured . can there be any punishment less imagined towards contumacious offenders then this is , or that carries in it less of outward and coactive force , it implying nothing but what the offender himself freely yielded to at his entrance into this society . all that i can find replyed by any of the adversaryes of the opinion i here assert , to the argument drawn from the institution and titles of the officers of the church , is , that all those titles which are given to the ministers of the gospel in the new testament , that do import rule and government , are all to be taken in a spiritual sense , as they are christs ministers and ambassadors to preach his word and declare his will to his church . so that all power such persons conceive to lye in those titles , is only doctrinal and declarative ; but how true that is , let any one judge that considers these things . . that there was certainly a power of discipline then in the churches constituted by the apostles , which is most evident not onely from the passages relating to offenders in saint pauls epistles , especially to the corinthians and thessalonians , but from the continued practice of succeeding ages manifested by tertullian , cyprian , and many others . there being then a power of discipline in apostolical churches , there was a necessity it should be administred by some persons who had the care of those churches ; and who were they but the severall pastors of them ? it being then evident that there was such a power , doth it not stand to common sense it should be implyed in such titles , which in their naturall importance do signifie a right to govern , as the names of pastors and rulers do ? . there is a diversity in scripture made between pastors and teachers , ephes. . . though this may not ( as it doth not ) imply a necessity of two distinct offices in the church , yet it doth a different respect and connotation in the same person , and so imports that ruling carries in it somewhat more then meer teaching , and so the power implyed in pastors to be more then meerly doctrinal , which is all i contend for , viz. a right to govern the flock committed to their charge . . what possible difference can be assigned between the elders that rule well , and those which labour in the word and doctrine , ( timothy . . ) if all their ruling were meerly labouring in the word and doctrine ? and all their governing nothing but teaching ? i intend not to prove an office of rulers distinct from teachers from hence ( which i know neither this place , nor any other will do ) but that the formal conception of ruling , is different from that of teaching . . i argue from the analogy between the primitive churches and the synagogues , that , as , many of the names were taken from thence where they carried a power of discipline with them , so they must do in some proportion in the church ; or it were not easie understanding them . it is most certain the presbyters of the synagogue had a power of ruling , and can you conceive the bishops and presbyters of the church had none , when the societies were much of the same constitution , and the government of the one was transscribed from the other , as hath been already largely proved ? . the acts attributed to pastor in scripture , imply a power of governing , distinct from meer teaching ; such are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , used for a right to govern ▪ matth. . . revel . . . — . . which word is attributed to pastors of churches in reference to their flocks , acts . . pet. . . and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is applyed to ministers , when they are so frequently called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which notes praesidentiam cum potestate ; for hesychius renders it by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 at athens had certainly a power of government in them . . the very word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is attributed to those who have over-sight of churches , cor. . . by which it is certainly evident , that a power more than doctrinal is understood , as that it could not then be understood of a power meerly civil . and this i suppose may suffice to vindicate this argument from the titles of church officers , in the new testament , that they are not insignificant things , but the persons who enjoyed them had a right to govern the society over which the holy ghost hath made them over-seers . . i argue that church-power ariseth not meerly from consent , because the church may exercise her power on such , who have not actually confederated with her ; which is in admitting members into the church : for if the church-officers have power to judge whether persons are fit to be admitted , they have power to exclude from admission such whom they judge unfit , and so their power is exercised on those who are not confederated . to this it may be answered , that the consent to be judged , gives the church power over the person suing for admission . i grant it doth , as to that particular person ; but the right in generall of judging concerning admission , doth argue an antecedent power to an actual confederation . for i will suppose that christ should now appoint some officers to found a church , and gather a society of christians together , where there hath been none before : i now ask whether these officers have power to admit any into the church or no ? this i suppose cannot be denied , for to what end else were they appointed ? if it be granted they have power to admit persons , and thereby make a church , then they had power antecedently to any confederation ; for the confederation was subsequent to their admission : and therefore they who had power to admit , could not derive their power from confederation . this argument , to me , puts the case out of dispute , that all church-power cannot arise from meer confederation . and that which further evidenceth that the power of the church doth not arise from meer consent , is that deed of gift whereby our blessed saviour did confer the power of the keyes on the apostle peter , as the representative in that action of the whole colledge of the apostles and governours of the church , of which power all the apostles were actually infeoffed , john . . by which power of the keyes is certainly meant some administration in the church , which doth respect it as a visible society , in which sense the church , is so frequently called , as in that place , the kingdome of heaven ; and in all probability the administration intended here by the power of the keyes , is that we are now discoursing of , viz. the power of admission into the church of christ , in order to the pardon of the sins of all penitent believers , and the shutting out of such who were manifestly unworthy of so holy a communion . so that the power of the keyes do●h not primarily respect exclusion out of the church , and receiving into it again upon absolution , but it chiefly respects the power of admission into the church , though by way of connotation and analogy of reason it will carry the other along with it . for if the apostles as governours of the church were invested with a power of judging of mens fitness for admission into the church as members of it , it stands to the highest reason that they should have thereby likewise a power conveyed to them , of excluding such as are unworthy after their admission , to maintain communion with the church . so that this interpr●tation of the power of the keyes , is far from invalidating the power of the church , as to its censuring offenders ; all that it pretends to , is onely giving a more natural and genuine sense of the power of the keyes , which will appear so to be , if we consider these things . . that this power was given to saint peter before any christian church , was actually formed , which ( as i have elsewhere made manifest ) was not done till after christs resurrection ; when christ had given the apos●les their commission to go to preach and baptize , &c. matth. . . is it not therefore farr more rational , that the power of the keyes here given , should respect the founding of a church and admission into it , than ejection out of it ( before it was in being ) and receiving into it again ? and this we find likewise remarkably fulfilled in the person of the apostle peter , who opened the door of admission into the christian church ▪ both to iewes and gentiles . to the iewes by his sermon at pentecost , when about . souls were brought into the church of christ. to the gentiles , as is most evident in the story of corneliu● , acts . . who was the first-fruits of the gentiles . so that if we should yield so far to the great inhancers of saint petes● power , that something was intended peculiar to his person in the keyes given him by our saviour , we hereby see how rationally it may be understood without the least advantage to the extravagant pretensions of saint peters pretended successours . . the pardon of sin in scripture is most annexed to baptism and admission into the church , and thence it seems evident , that the loosing of sin should be by admitting into the church by baptism , in the same sense by which baptism is said to save us , and it is called the washing of regeneration ; respecting the spiritual advantages which come by admission into the church of christ ; and so they are said to have their sins bound upon them , who continue refractory in their sins , a● simon magus is said to be in the bond of iniquity . . the metaphor of the keyes refers most to admission into the house , and excluding out of it , rather than ejecting any out of it , and re-admitting them . thus when eliakim is said to have the keyes of the house of david , it was in regard of his power to open and shut upon whom he pleased . and thus cyprian , as our learned mr. thorndike observes , understands the power of binding and loosing in this sense , in his epistle to iubaianus , where speaking of the remission of sins in baptism , he brings these very words of our saviour to peter as the evidence of it ; that what he should loose on earth , should be loosed in heaven : and concludes with this sentence , unde intelligimus non nisi in ecclesiâ praeposit is & in evangeli●â lege ac dominicâ ordinatione fundatis , licere baptizare , & remissam peccatorum dare ; for is autem nec ligari aliquid posse nec solvi , ubi non sit qui ligare possit aut solvere . that which i now infer from this discourse , is , that the power of the church do●h not arise from meer consent and confederation , both because this power doth respect those who have not actually consented to it , and because it is settled upon the governours of the church by divine institution . thus it appears that the right of inflicting censures doth not result meerly ●●● confoederatd disciplind , which was the thing to be proved . the l●ke evidence may be given , for the duty of submitting to penalties or church-censures in the members of the church : which that it ariseth , not from meer consent of parties , will appear on these accounts . . every person who enters this society is bound to consent , before he doth it , because of the obligation lying upon conscience to an open prof●ssion of christianity , presently upon conviction of the understanding of the truth and certainty of christian religion . for when once the mind of any rational man is so far wrought upon by the influence of the divine spirit , as to discover the most rational and undoubted evidences , which there are of the truth of christianity , he is presently obliged to profess christ openly , to worship him solemnly , to assemble with others for instruction and participation of gospel ▪ ordinances ; and thence it follows , that there is an antecedent obligation upon conscience to associate with others , and consequently to consent to be governed by the rulers of the society which he enters into . so that this submission to the power of church officers in the exercise of discipline upon offenders , is implyed in the very conditions of christianity , and the solemn professing and undertaking of it . . it were impossible any society should be upheld , if it be not laid by the founder of the society as the necessary duty of all members to undergo the penalties which shall be inflicted by those who have the care of governing that society , so they be not contrary to the laws , nature and constitution of it . else there would be no provision made for preventing divisions and confusions which will happen upon any breach made upon the laws of the society . now this obligation to submission to censures , doth speak something antecedentaly to the confederation , although the expression of it lies in the confederation its self . by this i hope we have made it evident that it is nothing else but a mistake in those otherwise learned persons , who make the power of censures in the christian church to be nothing else but a lex confederata disciplinae , whereas this power hath been made appear to be de●ived from a higher original than the meer arbitrary consent of the several members of the church associating together : and how farre the examples of the synagogues under the law , are from reaching that of christian churches in reference to this , because in these the power is conveyed by the founder of the society , and not left to any arbitrary constitutions , as it was among the iews in their synagogues . it cannot be denied but consent is supposed , and confederation necessary in order to church power ; but that is rather in regard of the exercise , then the original of it ; for although i affirm the original of thi● power to be of divine institution , yet in order to the exercise of it in reference to particular persons ( who are not mentioned in the charter of the power its self ) it is necessary that the persons on whom it is exerted , should declare their consent and submission either by words or actions , to the rules and orders of this society . having now proved that the power of the church doth not arise from meer consent of parties , the next grand inquiry is concerning the extent of this power , whether it doth reach so far as to excommunication ? for some men who will not seem wholly to deny all power in the church over offenders , nor that the church doth subsist by divine institution , yet do wholly deny any such power as that of excommunication , and seem rather to say that church-officers may far more congr●ously to their office inflict any other mulct upon offenders , then exclude them from participation of communion with others in the ordinances and sacraments of the gospel : in order therefore to the clearing of this , i come to the third proposition . that the power which christ hath given to the officers of his church , doth extend to the exclusion of contumacious offenders from the priviledges which this society enjoyes . in these terms i rather choose to fix it , then in those crude expressions , wherein erastus and some of his followers would state the question , and some of their imprudent adversaries have accepted it , viz. whether church officers have power to exclude any from the eucharist , ob moralem impuritatem ? and the reasons why i wave those terms , are ; . i must confess my self yet unsatisfied as to any convincing argument , whereby it can be proved that any were denyed admission to the lords supper , who were admitted to all other parts of church-society , and owned as members in them . i cannot yet see any particular reason drawn from the nature of the lords-supper above all other parts of divine worship , which should confine the censures of the church meerly to that ordinance ; and so to make the eucharist bear the same office in the body of the church , which our new anatomists tell us the parenchyme of the liver doth in the natural body , viz. to be col●●● sanguinis , to serve as a kind of strainer to separate the more gross and faeculent parts of the blood from the more pure and spirituous ; so the lord's supper to strain out the more impure members of the church from the more holy and spiritual . my judgement then is , that excommunication relates immediately to the cutting a person off from communion with the churches visible society , constituted upon the ends it is ; but because communion i● not visibly discerned but in administration and participation of gospel ordinances , therefore exclusion doth chiefly referre to these : and because the lords supper is one of the highest privilledges which the church enjoyes ; therefore it stands to reason that censures should begin there . and in that sense suspension from the lords supper of persons apparently unworthy , may be embraced as a prudent , lawful , and convenient abatement of the greater penalty of excommunication , and so to stand on the same general grounds that the other doth ; for qui p●test majus , potest etiam minus , which will hold as well in moral as natural power , i● there be no prohibition to the contrary , nor peculiar reason as to the one more then to the o●her . . i dislike the terms ob moralem impuritatem , on this account , because i suppose they were taken up by erastus , and from him by others as the controversie was managed concerning excommunication among the i●wes , viz. whether it were ●meerly because of ceremonial , or else likewise because of moral impurity . as to which i must ingenuously acknowledge erastus hath very much the advantage of his adversaries , clearly proving that no persons under the law were excluded the temple worship because of moral impurity . but then withall i think he hath gained little advantage to his cause by the great and successfull pains he hath taken in the proving of that ; my reason is , because the temple-worship or the sacrifices under the law were in some sense propitiatory , as they were the adumbrations of that grand sacrifice which was to be offered up for the appeasing of gods wrath , viz. the blood of christ ; therefore to have excluded any from participation of them , had been to exclude them from the visible way of obtaining pardon of sin ( which was not to be had without shedding of blood , as the apostle tells us ) and from testifying their faith towards god and repentance from dead works . but now under the gospel those ordinances , which suppose admission into the church by baptism , do thereby suppose an all-sufficient sacrifice offered for the expiation of sin , and consequently ▪ ●he subsequent priviledges , do not immediately relate to the obtaining of that , but a gratefull commemoration of the deat● of christ , and a celebration of the infinite mercy and goodness of god in the way of redemption found out by the death of his son. and therefore it stands to great reason that such persons , who by their profane and unworthy lives dishonour so holy a profession , should not be owned to be as good and sound members of the society , ●ounded on so sacred a foundation , as the most christian and religious persons . to this i know nothing can be objected , but that , first , the passover was commemorative among the iews ; and secondly , that the priviledges of that people were then very great above other people , and therefore if god had intended any such thing as excommunication among his peoplè , it would have been in use then . to these i answer . . i grant , the passeover was commemorative as to the occasion of its institution : but then it was withal typical and annunciative of that lamb of god who was to take away the sins ▪ of the world ; and therefore no person who desired expiation of sins , was to bee debarred from it , but the lords-supper under the gospel hath nothing in it propitiatory , but is intended as a feast upon a sacrifice and a federal rite , as hath been fully cleared by a very learned person in his discourse about the true notion of the lords supper . . i grant the iews had very many priviledges above other nations : nay so far , that the whole body of the people were looked upon as gods chosen , and peculiar and holy people ; and from thence i justly inferr , that whatever exclusion was among the people of the iews from their society , will far better hold as an argument for excommunication under the christian church , than if it had been a meer debarring from their levitical worship . and that i should far sooner insist upon , from the reason assigned , as the ground of excommunication , then the other infirm and pro●ligated argument ; and so the exclusion out of the camp of israel and the cerith among the iews ( whatever we understand by it ) may à pari hold to be a ground of exclusion from the christian society : in imitation of which , i rather suppose that exclusion out of the synagogues was after taken up , rather then as a meer out lawry , when they were deprived of civil power . the question then being thus clearly stated , it amounts to this , whether under the gospel , there be any power in the officers of the church by vertue of divine institution to exclude any offenders out of the christian society , for transgressing the laws of it ? and according to our former propositions , i suppose it will be sufficient to prove that power to bee of divine institution ; if i prove it to bee fundamentally and intrinsecally resident in the society its self . for whatever doth immediately result from the society its self , must have the same original which the subject hath , because this hath the nature of an inseparable property resulting from its constitution . for the clearing of which , i shall lay down my thoughts of it as clearly and methodically as i can ; and that in these following hypotheses . . where there is a power of declaring any person to bee no true member of the society hee is in , there is a formal power of excommunication : for this is all which i intend by it , viz. an authoritative pronouncing virtute officii , any convict offender to have forfeited his interest in the church as a christian society : and to lose all the priviledges of it : so that if this power be lodged in any church officer , then he hath power formally to excommunicate . . where the enjoyment of the priviledges of a society is not absolute and necessary , but depends upon conditions to bee performed by every member , of which the society is iudge , there is a power in the rulers of that society to debar any person from such priviledges , upon non-performance of the conditions . as supposing the jus civitatis to depend upon defending the rights of the city ; upon a failing in reference to this , in any person admitted to citizen-ship , the rulers of the city have the same power to take that right away , which they had at first to give i● ; because that right was never absolutely given , but upon supposition that the person did not overthrow the ends for which it was bestowed upon him . . the church is such a society in which communion is not absolute and necessary , but it doth depend upon the performance of some conditions , of which the governours of it are the competent iudges : and that appears , . because the admission into the church , depends upon conditions to be judged by pastors , as in case of adult persons requiring baptism , and the children of infidels being baptized : in both which cases it is evident that conditions are pre-requisite , of which the pastors are iudges . . because the priviledges of this society do require a separation from other societies in the world , and call for greater holiness and purity of life ; and those very priviledges are pledges of greater benefits which belong only to persons qualified with suitable conditions ; it would therefore bee a very great dishonour to this society , if it lay as common and open as other societies in the world do , and no more qualifications required from the members of it . . wee have instances in the sacred records of apostolical times , of such scandals which have been the ground of the exclusion of the persons guilty of them from the priviledges of the christian society . and here i suppose we may ( notwithstanding all the little evasions which have been found out ▪ ) ●ix on the incestuous person in the church of corinth . as to which , i lay not the force of the argument upon the manner of execution of the censure then , viz. by delegation from an apostle , or the apostolical rod , or delivering to satan ; for i freely grant that these did then import an extraordinary power in the apostles over offenders ; but i say , the ground and reason of the exercise of that power in such an extraordinary manner at that time , doth still continue , although not in that visible extraordinary effect which it then had . and whatever practice is founded upon grounds perpetual and common , that practice must continue as long as the grounds of it do , and the churches capacity w 〈…〉 dmit ; ( which hypothesis is the only rational foundation on which episcopal government in the church doth stand firm and unshaken , and which in the former discourse i am far from undermining of , as an intelligent reader may perceive ) ; now i say that it is evident , that the reasons of the apostles censure of that person , are not fetched from the want of christian magistrates , but from such things which will hold as long as any christian church : which are the dishonour of the society , corinth . . . the spreading of such corruptions further , if they pass uncensured , corinth . . . and amendment of the person , cor. . . upon these pillars the power of censures rests it self in the church of god , which are the main grounds of penalties in all societies whatsoever , viz. the preservation of the honour of them , and preventing of further mischief , and doing good to the offending party . and that which seems to add a great deal o● weight to this instance , is , that the apostle checks the corinthians , that before the exercise of the apostolical rod , they were not of themselves sensible of so great a dishonour to the church as that was , and had not used some means for the removing such a person from their society ; and ye are puffed up , and have not rather mourned that hee that hath done this deed , may be taken away from among you , corinth . . . therein implying , that whether there had been such a thing in the church , or no , as the apostolical rod , it had been the duty of a christian society to have done their endeavour in order to the removing such a person from their number . but further , i cannot understand how it should bee a duty in christians to withdraw from every brother who walketh disorderly , and church-officers not to have power to pronounce such a person to be withdrawn from , which amounts to excommunication . it is not to mee at all material , whether they did immediately relate to civil or sacred converse ( concerning which there is so much dispute ) for in which soever we place it , if church-officers have a power to pronounce such a person to be withdrawn from , they have a power of excommunication ; so we consider this penalty as inflicted on the person in his relation to the society as a christian ▪ and wi●hall , how neerly conjoyned their civil and spiritual eating were together , corinth . . , . and how strongly the argument will hold from civil to sacred , viz. à remotione unius ad remotionem alterius , not from any fancied pollution in sacris from the company of wicked men , but from the dishonour reflecting on the society from such unworthy persons par●aking of the h●ghest priviledges of it . thus from these three hypotheses this corollary follows , that where any persons in a church do by their open and contumacious offences , declare to the world that they are far from being the persons they were supposed to be in their admission into the church , there is a power resident in the pastors of the church to debar such persons from the priviledges of it ; and consequently from communion in the lords supper . . because this expresseth the nearest union , and closest confederation , as the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 among the grecians commonwealths did . . because this hath been alwayes looked on with greatest veneration in the church of god ; and therefore it is least of all fit those persons should be admitted to the , highest priviledges of the church , which are unworthy of the lowest of them . there remain only some few objections which are levelled against this opinion concerning the power of excommunication , which from the question being thus stated and proved , will be soon removed . the first is , that this excommunication is an outward punishment , and therefore belongs not to church officers , but to the magistrate . . because it neither is , nor ever was in the power of any church officer to debar any offending member from publick worship , because any heathens may come to it . . it cannot lye as to exclusion from the lords supper , because christ is offered as spiritual food , as well in the word preached as in the sacrament . to these i answer ▪ . i do not well understand what the objectors mean by an outward punishment ; for there can be no punishment belonging to a visible society , ( such as the church is here considered to be ) but it must be visible , i. e. outward , or a thing to be taken notice of in the world ; and in this sense i deny that all visible punishment belongs only to the magistrate ; but if by outward , be mean● forcible punishment , then i grant that all coactive power belongs to the magistrate ; but i deny that excommunication formally considered , is a forcible punishment . . because every person at his entrance into this society , is supposed to declare his submission to the rules of the society ; and therefore whatever he after undergoes by way of penalty in this society , doth depend upon that consent . . a person stands excommunicate legally and de jure , who is declared authoritatively to be no member of the society , though he may be present at the acts of it , as a defranchised person may be at those of a corporation . . a person falling into those offences which merit excommunication , is supposed in so doing , voluntarily to renounce his interest in those priviledges , the enjoyment of which doth depend upon abstaining from those offences which he wilfully falls into , especially if contumacy be joyned with them , a 〈…〉 is before excommunication ; for then nothing is done forcibly towards him ; for he first relinquisheth his right , before the church-governor declares him excluded the society . so that the offender doth meritoriously excommunicate himself , the pastor doth it formally , by declaring that he hath made himself no member by his offences and contumacy joyned with them . to the second i answer , that i do not place the formality of excommunication in exclusion from hearing the word , but in debarring the person from hearing tanquam pars ecclesiae , as a member of the church , and so his hearing may be well joyned with that of heathens and infidels , and not of members of the church . to the third i answer , that exclusion from the lords supper is not on the accounts mentioned in the objection , but because it is one of the chiefest priviledges of the church , as it is a visible society . having thus cleared and asserted the power of excommunication in a christian church , there remains only one enquiry more , which is , whether this power doth remain formally in the church , after its being incorporated into the common wealth , or else doth it then escheate wholly into the civil power ? the resolution of which question mainly depends on another spoken to already ; viz. whether this power was only a kind of widows estate , which belonged to it only during its separation from the civil power , or was the church absolutely infeoffed of it as its perpetual right , belonging to it in all conditions whatsoever it should be in ? now that must appear by the tenure of it , and the grounds on which it was conveyed , which having been proved already to be perpetual and universal , it from thence appears that no accession to the church can invalidate its former title . but then as in case of marriage , the right of disposal and well management of the estate coming by the wife , belongs to the husband ; so after the church is married into the common-wealth , the right of supream management of this power in an external way doth fall into the magistrates hands . which may consist in these following things . . a right of prescribing laws for the due management of church-censures . . a right of bounding the manner of proceeding in c●●●●●res , that in a se●●led christian-state ▪ matters of so great weight bee not left to the arbitrary pleasure of any church-officers , nor such censures inflicted but upon an evident conviction of such great offences which tend to the dishonour of the christian-church , and that in order to the amendment of the offenders life . . the right of adding temporal and civil sanctions to church-censures , and so enforcing the spiritual weapons of the church , with the more keen and sharp ones of the civil state. thus i assert the force and efficacy of all church censures in foro humano to flow from the civil power , and that there is no proper effect following any of them as to civil rights , but from the magistrates sanction . , to the magistrate belongs the right of appeals in case of unjust censures , not that the magistrate can repeal a just censure in the church , as to its spiritual effect● ; but he may suspend the temporal effect of it : in which case it is the duty of pastors to discharge their office and acquiesce ▪ but this power of the magistrate in the supream ordering of ecclesiastical as well as civil causes , i have fully asserted and cleared already . from which it follows , that as to any outward effects of the power of excommunication , the person of the supream magistrate must be exempted , both because the force of these censures doth flow from him in a christian state , and that there otherwise would be a progress in infinitum , to know whether the censure of the magistrate were just or no. i conclude then , that though the magistrate hath the main care of ordering things in the church , yet ( the magistrates power in the church being cumulative , and not privative ) the church and her officers retain the fundamental right of inflicting censures on offenders ▪ which was the thing to be proved . dedit deus his quoque finem . books sold by henry mortlocke at the phoenix in st. pauls church-yard near the little north ▪ door . a rational account of the grounds of protestant religion : being a vindication of the lord arch bishop of canterbury's relation of a conference , &c. from the pretended answer , by t. c. by edward stilling fleet . origines sacrae , or , a rational account of the grounds of christian faith , as to the truth and divine authority of the scriptures , and the matters therein contained , by the same author , in o. bain● upon the ephesians . trapp on the proverbs , ecclesiastes , canticles , with the major prophets , being his third volume of annotations on the whole bible . greenhill upon ezekiel . hall upon anos . brooks on the necessity , excellency , rarity , and beauty of holiness . knowledge and practice : or , a plain discourse of the chief things necessary to be known , believed , and practised , in order to salvation , by samuel cradock . scheci●ah : or , a demonstration of the divine presence in places of religious worship . by iohn stillingfleet . a treatise of divine meditation , by iohn ball , published by mr. simeon ash. the morall philosophy of the stoicks , turned out of french into english , by charles cotton esq an improvement of the sea , upon the nau●icall verses of the . psalm . wherein , among other things , you have a full and delightfull description of all those many , various and multitudinous objects , which are beheld ( through the lords creation , both on sea , in sea , and on land ) , viz. all sorts and kinds of fish , fowl , and beasts , whether wild or t●me ; all sorts of trees , and fruits : all sorts of people , cities , towns , and countreys , by daniel pell . baxters call , &c. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e hist. eccl. l. . c. . notes for div a -e § . §. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 arist ethic . l. . c. ▪ grot. de jure b●lli & pac . lib. . cap. . sect. . l●ss . de justit . & jure l. . c. . dub. . etymol . philol. voc . jus . etymol . l. . cap. . ethic. l. . cap. . mat. . isa. . . tertull. de orat. cap. v. herald . digress . lib. . cap. . in tertull. alex. alensis . part . . q. . m. . §. . rom. . . §. . ethic. l. . cap. . v. selden . de jure nat. apud ▪ eb●ae lib. . c. & . mol. de just & iur. p. disp . . alphons . de leg . pur ▪ l. . c. . §. . exercit. eccles. advers . ba● . exer . . sect . . s●id . de jure nat. apud ebr. l. . cap. . colloq . ●um tryph. jud●o . origin . lib. . cap. . v. g●ot . in luc. . . maimon . de fundam . legis , cap. . sect . . abarb. de capit. fidei . cap. . p. . ed. vorstii . gal. . . §. . gen. . deut. . act . . ora● . ●●●● . cae●iu . §. . heb. . ● . catech. racov . cap. . acts . . § ● matth. . . john . . pe● . ● ▪ . gen. . . matth. . . . . § . hypoth . . grot. de jure bell● , &c. lib . c●p . . s. . pr●sat . in cod. canon . eccl. a●ric . p. . less . de just . & jure l. . c. . d●b . . n. . suarez de leg . lib. : cap. . sect . . orig. lib. . c. celsum . p. . ed. co● . ● c. celsum l. . p. . § . covarr . c. . de tesi●m●n . ● . hobs de civ . cap. ▪ s. . ann. §. . prop. . paulus l. . d. de ●urtis . v●pian . lib. post. d. de verb sig . v. grot. de jure belli . &c. lib. . cap. ▪ sect . . §. . judg. . sam. . , . . . . . sam. . , &c. exerci● ▪ in gen. . isa. . . gen. , . heb. ● . . §. . isa. . . euseb. vit : constant. l. . c. . de imp. sum ▪ potest . cap. . l. . in iud. c. . panstrat . cath. tom. . l . cap. . in loc . to. . ed. ae●on . p. . ed. . de episcop . const. magn. § . aristot. ethic. lib. . c. . matth. . . heb. . . v. pe●● , ma●tyr . in sam. . whitaker , ● cont . . q. . cameron . de eccles. p. . to. . op . lib. . c. parmen . ●a sam. . loc. com. class . . c. ● ▪ sect . . papin . l. d. de poenis hot●oman . com. v. juris v : sanct . cicero ad ar●ic . l. . ep . . §. . institut . l. . cap. . s. . & cap. . s. . nature of episc. chap. . v. forbes . iren. lib. . cap. . rom . . §. . grat. de jure belli & pacis . lib. . cap . sect . . §. . gal. . . d. sanderson . de oblig . cons. prael . . s. . gal. . . acts . . gal. . , , . coloss. . , , . rom. . , , . cor. . . controv. . quaest . . cap. . in sam. . aug. e● . . ad ianuar. §. . gal. . . de rebus eccles. cap. . can. in cod. can. in v●n . eccles. can . . salm. not. in tertul. de pall o. . ant. cercocthius in salmas . p. . eus●b . lib. . cap. . euseb. l. . so●rat . hist. eccles. l. . c. . cap. . l. . eccles. hist. l. . cap. . eras. in declar . ad cens. paris . art . . cons. with hart. chap. . div. . de croy . conformity , part . de sacram. lib. . c. . dr. ham. of superstition , sect . . ep. . ad ian. cap. . §. . rom. . . §. . hist. lib. . spartian . in adriano . dan. . . §. . not in maim . de idol c. . sect . . v chamier : panstrat . cath. to. . l. . c. . s. . amam . an. tib . bibl. l. . p. . v. selden . de diis syris proleg . p. . & . abodazara cap. . birtram . de polit. iud. cap. . p. . franz . sch. sacrif . disp . . coppenb . sch. sacrif . p. . §. . socinus prael . cap. . § . scrutin . scrip. part . . dist . . cap. . v. porphyr . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . en●ytlop . ad ●ram nonarii terrig . c. . p. . nicomach . l. . de abstin . lib. . s. . ep. ad aug. lib. . c. . gen. . . v. ainsworth , in loc . de abstin . l. . s. . v. petit . ad log , act. p. . quaest. grac. q. levit. ▪ . iliad . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a●g . . v. , &c ▪ hist. natur . lib. . c. . levit. . . v. saubertum de sacris . c. . vossius de ●ol , l . cap. . gr●c . fer. §. . geogr. l. . deipnosoph . lib. . deipnos . l ▪ . cap. . v. meursi● graec. arist. castellon . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . hospin . de festis . m●●h benther de fastis . exercit. in bar. . s. . sed vide gothofred . in tim. . . s●lmas . in hist. aug. p. . . suidas inv . mithras . no●●us in naz ▪ s●clit . p. . m●●rsium in eleusi●is . aristol . nicom . l. . c. . moral . advers . colotem . lord bacon essay of a king. §. . §. . homil. . in gen. ● . . tom. . p. . ed. savil. politic. lib. . cap. . gen. . . . . ● . . . . job ● . §. . v. selden . de success . ad leo . heb. cap. . origin cap. . p. . qu. . in gen. v. isidor . pel. lib. . ep . . & . ad fi● ▪ v. selden . de success . ad pontis . ebr . cap. . sed & v. eum de syned . lib. ● . cap. . v. selden de syned . l . cap. . s. . §. . plut. de i● . & osi●id . str. geog. l . quest. rom. . politic. l. . cap. . . l. . cap. . lib. . c. . herod . l. . v. c●ag . de rep laced . lib. . c. . qu. rom. . strom. l. . ep . . geog. l. . s●eton . in aug. c. . v. casaub. in l. & seld. de syned l. . ● . . § . rom. . . §. . mr. smiths dis . . of prophecy , chap. . strom. ● . eccl. hist. l. . ▪ praes . in i● . nahum . habak . ch●ys . in . cor. hom. . epiph. haeres . . ezek. . . orig. c. celsum , lib. . p. . l. . p. . tertull. de an . c. . dan. . . habak . . procop. gaz. in reg. ● . ed. meursii . lycop●r . alex. p. . ioseph . c. app. l. . euseb. praep. l. . cap. . tertul. apol . c. . c. notion . l. . c. . lamprid. vit . alex. sever. seneca ep . . tibullus . eleg . . l. . lucian . pseudol . p. . ed. paris . §. . macrob. saturnal . l. . c. . servius honor. in virgil. georgic . . festus v. religios . advers . l. . c. . de re rust. l. . c . dei●nos . l. . saturn . l. . c. . de jure nat. apud heb. l. . cap. . de idolol . c. . §. . hom. iliad . apoll. argon . l. . casaub. ad th●o . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . saub de sacri . cap. . paus. l. . matth. . . casaub. ad bar. exer . . s. . ●aro● . ad an. christi m●ntacutius orig. eccles. . . l. . p. . vossius harm . evang. l. ● . cap. . v. m●yerum de p●patu , rom. l. . c. . de croy. conf. . c. . ov●d . fast. lib. . v. brisson . de sormulis lib. . p. . o ●●omist . c. lib. ● . c. . v. leon. 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cap. . s. . apolog. confess . aug. ad art . . confess . august . per chytr . p. . institut . l b. . cap ● sect . . sect. . de ministr . gradibus , cap. . p. . cap. . p. , . de ministr . gradibus , cap. . p. . instit. l. . c. . s. . de ministr . grad . cap . p. . ● tit. . . de ministr ▪ grad . p. . super. mat. tit . de ordinat . ep. ad co●er . a. d. . tom. . ad sadoletum . & de neces . reform . eccl. p. . in loc . com . de eccl. p. . opuscul . theol. clas . . cap. . p. . lib. . c. . de polit. eccles. l. . cap. . see mr. duree's government of protestant churches beyond the seas . §. . certain brief treatises , &c. oxford . . sect. . defence of sermon . l. . cap. . p. . l. . ch . . p. . from p. . to . p. . §. . his majesters second paper to the ministers at nowport . ad sin● . v. bishop ▪ ushers reduction of episcopacy , &c. pur. . ch . ●a . s. . notes for div a -e append. c. . part . . §. . §. . §. . §. . §. . §. . §. . §. . §. . . . §. a●ud august de civit. de l. . c. . §. . §. . §. . 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( . ) §. . . . ● heb. . . §. . cor. . . thess . . §. . iren. p . c. . sect . . a sermon preached before the king, february the , / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached before the king, february the , / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed by j.m. for h. mortlock..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- o.t. -- job xxiii, -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - melanie sanders sampled and proofread - melanie sanders text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached before the king , february the . / . by edward stillingfleet , d.d. dean of s. pauls , and chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . printed by his majesties command . london , printed by j. m. for henry mortlock at the phoenix in s t paul 's church-yard , and at the white hart in westminster-hall , . job xxiii . . when i consider , i am afraid of him . these words were spoken by job ; not in his flourishing and prosperous state , when that extraordinary character was given of him , that there was none like him in the earth , a perfect and an upright man , one that feared god , and eschewed evil ; but , after the devil was permitted to try that malicious experiment upon him , viz. whether the changing his outward condition , would not alter the inward disposition of his mind , as to god and religion . for he suggested , that nothing but interest made him so religious , that all his piety and devotion was owing to the wonderful blessings of god upon him ; and if these were once removed , he would fly out into so much impatience as to curse god to his face ; i. e. to speak evil of his providence , and renounce his service . and this temptation prevailed so far on job's wife , that she became an instrument to carry on the devils design , when she said to him , dost thou still retain thy integrity ? curse god and dye : as though she had said , you see , what all your religion is now come to , and what a condition the providence of god , on which you trusted so much , hath brought you to ; let them serve god , that have ease and plenty , you have nothing left to do now , but in spite of providence , to put an end to such a miserable life . but as it was observed of the old heathen oracles , that they had often a true meaning in them , but it was commonly misapplied ( the devils own knowledge of future events being but probable and conjectural ) so here , it was a shrewd guess that so sudden a change would have such an effect upon some person concerned in it : but he was very much mistaken as to job ; who behaved himself with admirable patience and submission to the will of god , under all his severe afflictions ; insomuch , that he did not suffer an indecent expression to come from him , with respect to god and his providence : in all this job sinned not , nor charged god foolishly . which was no doubt a great disappointment to the devil , who made account he should by jobs impatience have given a terrible blow to religion , by making the world believe , that it was nothing but a grave pretence of some mens seeming to be better than their neighbours . for if a man of so much piety , as job was esteemed , should no sooner be pinched himself with affliction , but he would be quarrelling at gods management of things , the devil would have inferred , that he did plainly discover , how little influence , religion had upon the minds of those , who made the greatest shew of it . this had been a very dangerous snare in that age , to the rest of mankind , among whom the example of so great a person , as job was in the parts of arabia where he lived ( as appears by the sabaeans and chaldaeans his unkind neigbours ) did give a mighty reputation to the practice of religion , especially among such a wild and ungoverned people as the arabs were . and in truth , the world is never so kind to religion , to give a fair interpretation of the failings of those who pretend to it ; but how unreasonable soever it be , they will make religion bear the blame of all their miscarriages who wear its livery . and job himself tells us , there were such profane persons then in the world , who despised and contemned all religion , as a vain impertinent , insignificant thing , therefore they say unto god , depart from us ; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways . what is the almighty that we should serve him ? and what profit shall we have if we pray unto him ? i. e. they understood or valued nothing but what made for their present interest ; and they were content to let god alone with the disposal of another world , so they might secure this to themselves . but it was not only then a seasonable vindication of religion , that job behaved himself with so much patience under his great calamities ; but it continues so to be as long as the memory of his sufferings remains , which hath lasted for so many ages , that some think the book of job the oldest book in the world ; ( not in the supposed translation into hebrew , but in the original arabic or syriac ) and is now like to be preserved , as long as the christian church endures ; against which the gates of hell will never be able to prevail . but notwithstanding the general evenness of job's temper , and his quiet submission to divine providence , there were two things which touched him more sensibly than all the other circumstances of his afflictions ; and those were , ( . ) that god should seem so much displeased with him , as to single him out as a mark to shoot at , when he was not conscious to himself of any such impiety to deserve it , according to the common method of his providence . ( . ) that his friends should call in question his sincerity in religion , and suspect him guilty of hypocrisie and secret impiety ; because they concluded that such signal calamities could hardly fall upon any man , that was not guilty of some such great crime towards god. these were a trial of jobs patience indeed ; that those from whom he expected the greatest comfort , should prove his forest enemies ; for if god were angry , who could stand before him ? and if he were false in his religion , how could he expect he should be his friend ? but in answer to both these , he owns his fear of gods displeasure , and denies the charge as to his secret hypocrisie , and both in these few words of the text , when i consider , i am afraid of him . these words may be understood , i. with respect to his apprehension of gods displeasure against him , therefore am i troubled at his presence , saith he immediately before ; not as though job were like those , eliphaz speaks of in the foregoing chapter , which said unto god , depart from us , or that he endeavoured , as profane persons do , to keep god out of his thoughts as much as he could : for what could job have done under all his troubles but for gods presence to support him ? and therefore he declares his firm resolution never to let go his confidence in god whatever became of him ; though be slay me , yet will i trust in him . he also shall be my salvation ; for an hypocrite shall not come before him . but the presence which troubled him , was the great appearance of gods displeasure ; of which again he speaks , v. . for god maketh my heart soft , and the almighty troubleth me . as though he had said , all other considerations make no deep impression upon my mind ; but i am no more able to bear up under the sense of gods anger , than the wax is to forbear melting before the fire . and from this sense of his own utter inability to stand before the power of the almighty , he elsewhere argues thus with him ; wilt thou break a leaf driven to and fro ? and wilt thou pursue the dry stubble ? man being as unable to resist the divine power , as a leaf is to stand before a tempestuous wind , or , the dry stubble to stop the rage of a consuming fire . but here are two things to be resolved to make this matter clear before i proceed ; ( . ) what it was made job so afraid of god when he considered , seeing . he insists so much upon his own integrity ? ( . ) what apprehension then ought we to have of god in our minds , when such a one as job said , when i consider , i am afraid of him . ( . ) what it was made job so apprehensive of gods anger that he was afraid of him , when he pleads so much for his own integrity towards god and man ? doth not this seem to lessen the comfort and satisfaction of a good conscience , when such a one as job was afraid of god ? for , from whence comes all the peace of a good conscience , but from him ? and what content can there be from him , the very thoughts of whom make us afraid ? to that i answer , ( . ) mankind ought always to preserve an humble and awful apprehension of god in their mind . and that from the sense of the infinite distance between god and us ; as he is our maker , and we are his creatures ; as he is our benefactor , and we his dependents ; as he is our supreme lord , and we his subjects ; as he infinitely exceeds us in all the perfections of his nature . for , what are our shallow and dark and confused conceptions of things , to his divine wisdom ? by which he comprehends all the differences of times at one view ; and all the reasons and connexions and possibilities of things are open and naked before him . what is all the power of mankind , if it were gathered into one , in comparison with that divine power , which gave a being to the world , when it was not ; and rules , and governs , and orders all things in it , with greater ease than we can move a finger ? it is by that , god hath spread out the skies , and ballanced the clouds , and garnished the heavens , and divided the sea , and hanged the earth upon nothing ; as it is elegantly set forth in this book of job . and therefore as job saith to his friends , shall not his excellency make you afraid ? and his dread fall upon you ? for as elihu speaks , with god is terrible majesty : and therefore when we consider , we have reason to be afraid of him . ( . ) the best of mankind have guilt enough upon them to make them apprehend gods displeasure under great afflictions . jobs friends insist much upon this , that god may see just cause to lay great punishments upon men , although they may not see it in themselves . for , if he charges his angels with folly , as eliphaz speaks , and the heavens are not clean in his sight ; how much more abominable and filthy is man , which drinketh iniquity like water ? i. e. whose natural propensity to evil , is like that of the thirsty traveller to drink of the brook that he meets in his way . but suppose some to have much greater care to restrain their desires than others ; yet saith he , what is man , that he should be clean ? and he which is born of a woman , that he should be righteous ? i. e. to such a degree as not to deserve afflictions from god. and after all the protestations job makes of his integrity , he confesses , that there is so much natural and contracted impurity in mankind , that god may justly cast them into the furnace to purge and refine them . who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean ? not one . and , i have sinned , what shall i do unto thee , o thou preserver of men ? for , thou writest bitter things against me , and makest me possess the iniquities of my youth . he could not deny but he had sinned enough to deserve gods displeasure : but according to the usual method of providence , he could not but think his case very hard , to suffer so much for sins committed before he well knew the nature or danger of his sins ; for sins so long since repented of , and forsaken ( which is the only satisfactory sign of true repentance ) and when so many wicked men in the heighth of their impiety , and contempt of god and religion , go away here unpunished ; whereas he had made it his business and delight to serve him , as he speaks in this chapter , my foot hath held his steps , his way have i kept and not declined ; neither have i gone back from the commandment of his lips : i have esteemed the words of his mouth , more than my necessary food . but after all this , to find gods hand so heavy upon him , made him sometimes complain in the anguish and bitterness of his soul ; why hast thou set me as a mark against thee , so that i am a burden to my self ? and elsewhere , i was at ease , he hath broken me asunder ; he hath also taken me by my neck , and shaken to pieces , and set me up for his mark . nothing sunk his spirit , till he thought god was displeased with him ; and then his heart and courage failed him ; and he beg'd compassion from his hard-hearted friends , have pity upon me , have pity upon me , o ye my friends : for the hand of god hath touched me . which makes good the observation of the wise man , that the spirit of a man will sustain his infirmities ; i. e. a mans natural courage will carry him through a great many troubles , but a wounded spirit who can bear ? i. e. when a mans heart fails him , he becomes a burden to himself ; every thing adds to his trouble , and nothing can give him ease but what can revive his spirit . now , no consideration in the world doth so break in pieces and confound and shatter the spirit of a man , like the apprehension of gods wrath and displeasure against him for his sins ; which made job cry out , like one wounded in the most tender and incurable parts , the arrows of the almighty are within me , the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit ; the terrors of god do set themselves in array against me . but after all this , . god may not be so displeased with such persons as lie under great afflictions , as they apprehend him to be . and this was the truth of job's case ; his sufferings were extraordinary , and such an unusal concurrence of so many sad accidents , made him think he had great cause to apprehend an immediate hand of god to be stretcht out against him . but the main design of this book , is to shew that all these afflictions were intended only as trials of his patience , and that god never loved him better than at this time , when he thought him so much displeased with him ; as he shewed in the conclusion . this is a very hard thing for persons under great afflictions to believe , and it is not necessary they should ; nay , sometimes the apprehension of gods displeasure against them for their sins , is one of the most useful parts of afflictions : for without this , they are apt either to inflame mens minds with discontent and unruly passions ; or to stupefie them with the dull and heavy opiates of chance or necessity : but when afflictions are looked on as coming from gods hand , this rouses and awakens our minds , and makes us think it necessary to look about us , to search and examine our ways , to find out the particular sins we have given way to , which may have justly provoked god to shew his displeasure against us . as we have reason above all things , to be afraid of his anger ; so it is our wisdom to apprehend the least change of his countenance towards us , and to make our peace with him , and then we have no cause to fear any thing that may happen to us : for the wise god will then turn all our crosses into such proper remedies for the diseases of our minds , that the sharpest afflictions will tend more to the purging away our sins , and thereby to a more sound and healthful state of our souls , than all the sleeping potions of the intoxicating pleasures and vanities of this world would ever have done . for , luxury and epicurism , with all the arts of heightning the pleasures of life , are things not more delightful to sense than dangerous to mens souls . they are like too frequent use of spirits in a time of health , which weaken the force of nature by raising it too high . so that were it in the choice of a wise man to have and enjoy as much of this world as he pleased , he would see a necessity to restrain his appetite , and to deny himself some of the lawful pleasures of life ; were it only to keep up the relish by variety ; and by enjoying them less , to hope to enjoy them longer . we have certainly then no reason to complain , if god think fit to debar us at all times , any use of unlawful pleasures , and an inordinate use of any ; since he leaves scope enough for the true contentment of life ; and if at some times he judges it necessary to give us physick as well as food , shall we not submit to his will ? for as job saith , shall we receive good at the hand of god , and shall we not receive evil ? as if he had said , shall we think much that our father should be our physician ; that he who hath been hitherto so kind to us to please us , should now be so kind to undertake our cure ? shall we complain that our physician doth not humour our palates , when he designs our health ? god knows what is better for us , than we do for our selves ; and that which seems most evil at present , may turn to the greatest good . i confess afterwards , job being either sowred by the malignity of his distemper , or heated by the impertinency or bitterness of his friends discourses ( for if they had no relation to his case , they were impertinent ; if they had , they were severe and uncharitable ) doth break out sometimes into some expressions of impatience ; but these arose from the clouds upon his mind , which made him then apprehend all these afflictions to come from gods wrath and indignation against him ; the thoughts of which he was not able to bear : but therein he was wholly mistaken , and then only hit upon the truth of his case when he said , when he hath tried me , i shall come forth as gold , i. e. more pure and refined , more bright and glorious . ( . ) in the hardest condition good men can be cast into , they have more comfortable hopes towards god than other men can have . job was extremely afflicted to think the best friend he had in the world , and whom he desired to please above all things , should become his enemy , and set himself against him ; but he did not always think so , although his friends represented his condition to him in the blackest and most frightful manner , which startled him and made him resent his sufferings with great bitterness , and express it with a kind of horror ; yet he soon recovered himself out of those agonies , and kept up his trust and confidence in god. and there were two things which supported him under all his dismal apprehensions . ( . ) the reflections of a good conscience in the discharge of his duty to god and man ; and therefore he tells his friends , after all their sharp reflections upon him , till i dye , i will not remove my integrity from me ; my righteousness i hold fast , and will not let it go ; my heart shall not reproach me so long as i live . it was this which raised his spirits , and made him stand his ground against the opposition of his friends , and the scorn of his enemies : it was this , which made him despise the meanness of those who courted , admired , and flatter'd him in his former greatness ; but now despised and derided him , making him the subject of their raillery and entertainments : and now i am their song , yea i am their by-word ; even theirs who but a little before , as he at large describes it , kept their distance from him , made way for him as he passed the streets , admired all he spoke as oracles , and all he did as the perfection of wisdom and vertue . but so wise a man could not be surprised to see flattery turned into scorn and derision ; ( for no man thinks to gain by his flattery , who hath not a secret contempt of the person he flatters ) and so good a man could not but forgive the unjust reproaches that were cast upon him , as long as he had the inward satisfaction of his own integrity . and therefore he gives so ample an account of his whole life and actions , both in his publick and private capacities ; not to boast of his vertues , but to be a just vindication of his innocence under all their aspersions ; and to let them see , that the comfort of a good conscience doth not fail , when friends do ; and as the wise man speaks : when the backsliders in heart shall be filled with their own ways ; a good man shall be satisfied from himself . ( . ) the expectation of a future recompence ; either in this world , as he seemed to hope , or at least in another . some think , that job spake as to this life , when he said , for i know that my redeemer liveth , and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth ; and though after my skin , worms destroy this body , yet in my flesh i shall see god : and so the meaning of these words is , though at present his case seem'd desperate , and his life past hope , the worms eating through his skin ; yet he had a secret hope , that god would at last redeem him out of his troubles , and that very loathsome carkass of his would hold out so long as to see that day . but the christian church hath generally understood them to refer to the day of resurrection , when he was certain that god would reward his innocency and sincerity : and of a future state , it is plain he had an undoubted expectation , when he saith , what is the hope of the hypocrite , although he hath gained , when god taketh away his soul ? which shews the great folly of hypocrisie , which can never stand a man in stead beyond this world , where he must leave all his riches , and honours , and hopes , and happiness behind him ; and the just expectation good men had , that god would reward them after this life , though they were sufferers in this . and therefore , although job had such dreadful apprehensions of god at present , yet he had very comfortable hopes as to his future condition , when he calls god his redeemer , even the same of whom he here saith , when i consider , i am afraid of him . ( . ) but if so good , so vertuous , so sincere a man as job , had such terrible apprehensions of god , what can we wretched sinners think of him ? if when he considered , he was afraid of him ; have not we reason when we consider , to sink into despair ? can we appeal to god as to the sincerity of our hearts in his fear and service , as job did ? can we say with job , that we have not gone back from the commandment if his lips , but have esteemed the words of his mouth more than our necessary food ? have we not rather cast his most just and reasonable commandments behind our backs , and esteemed our vanities , our superfluities , our debaucheries , our follies , above the words of his mouth ? but if we have not despised his laws , yet we cannot say , as job did , that our feet have held his steps , his way have we kept and not declined ; for our consciences cannot but condemn us for the breach of his laws ; and our sins , our great and manifold sins bear witness against us . what apprehensions of god then may we entertain in our minds , when even job was afraid of him ? i answer , ( . ) none ought to look upon god as so terrible , as to make them despair . ( . ) men ought to have different apprehensions of god , according to the nature and continuance of their sins . ( . ) none ought to look upon god as so terrible , as to make them despair . for when our apprehensions of god are such as drive us from him , they overthrow the great end of religion , which is to bring god and man nearer together . none ought to exclude themselves from mercy , whom god hath not excluded from it ; and god excludes none whom he invites to repent , with a promise of forgiveness , if they do it ; and the goodness and long-suffering , and forbearance of sinners , is on purpose design'd to lead them to repentance . so that after all this , to despair , is not only to reject the mercy which god offers , but to question his truth and sincerity , to slight his patience , to disparage his goodness , and to look upon him as a most revengeful and implacable being ; which is , to entertain most dishonourable and unworthy thoughts of the best , the wisest , the most merciful and compassionate being in the world ; who hath proclaimed himself to be a god merciful and gracious , long-suffering , and abundant in goodness and truth , keeping mercy for thousands , forgiving iniquity , transgression and sin , i. e. to all that truly repent of them . so that when we consider , we have no reason to be so afraid of him as to despair . ( . ) men ought to have different apprehensions of god , according to the nature and continuance of their sins . for as on the one side , the scripture assures us , that god knoweth our frame , and remembreth that we are dust ; and therefore will make all just and reasonable allowances for the unavoidable infirmities of humane nature , and all circumstances that abate the wilfulness of our evil actions : so on the other side , at the same time when he declared his infinite goodness , he adds , and that will by no means clear the guilty ; not of any kind of sin ; for then none could escape , since all have sinned , and therefore are become guilty before him : but the guilty are such , as add impenitency and obstinacy to their sins ; such as wilfully and presumptuously , not only break , but contemn his laws ; not barely neglect their duty , but despise it ; such as are not meerly cold and indifferent about religion , but are zealously concerned against it , and endeavour to expose it to scorn and contempt . for a very judicious interpreter saith , this severity of god here spoken of , in visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children , &c. is not to be understood of all crimes , but of such as immediately concern the honour of the divine majesty , such as apostasie , idolatry , and consequently atheism and irreligion ; which is a plot against heaven , an attempt to dethrone the divine majesty , or to make his government insignificant in the world. if faults are justly aggravated among men , not so much from other circumstances , as from the dignity of the person against whom they are committed , and from the tendency of them : will not the parity of reason so far hold , as to aggravate those sins which are immediate offences against the divine majesty , and which tend to overthrow his government of the world ? ii. and so i come to the second sense of these words , as they may be taken for jobs vindication of himself from the unjust charge of his friends , as though he were a secret hypocrite , or a contemner of god and religion , under a fair outward shew of piety and devotion . for , eliphaz in plain terms , in the foregoing chapter , tells him , he was one of those who thought god was at too great a distance to take notice of things upon earth . and thou sayest , how doth god know ? can he judge through the dark cloud ? thick clouds are a covering to him , that he seeth not , and he walketh in the circuit of heaven . which is in short , to charge him with denying the providence of god ; and reckons him with those that said unto god , depart from us ; and what can the almighty do for them ? i. e. with such as would have nothing to do with god or religion , looking on it as a foppish useless thing : but however , he gives him good counsel to repent of his folly , and to apply himself yet to god ; acquaint now thy self with him , and be at peace , thereby good shall come to thee . receive i pray thee the law from his mouth , and lay up his words in thine heart : i. e. be perswaded to be religious in good earnest , and to let the fear of god make a deep impression upon your soul , and you will find great benefit and advantage by it . if thou return to the almighty , thou shalt be built up , &c. job finding his friends so often letting fall expressions to this purpose , and knowing no imaginable reason for it , but a groundless suspicion they had entertained , because of his unusual sufferings , makes here in this chapter a solemn protestation of the mighty value and esteem he had for the laws of god , that he constantly observed them , and esteemed them more than his necessary food . and to let them know that this was no sudden heat , he tells eliphaz , that the fear of god in him , came from the most weighty and serious consideration ; when i consider , i am afraid of him : as if he had said , i have spent many thoughts about god and religion , whether there be any just reason for mankind to apprehend and stand in awe of an infinite being above them ; and i do assure you , the more i have fixed my thoughts upon this matter , and laid all things before me , the deeper impression the fear of god hath made upon me : or as some render it , perpendo & paveo , i consider , and i fear him . wherein are two things implied . i. that mens disesteem of religion doth arise from want of consideration . ii. that the more men consider , the more setled and fixed will their minds be in the esteem and practice of religion . i. that mens disesteem of religion doth arise from the want of consideration . which will best appear , by examining the most common and prevailing reasons of mens disesteem of it ; which are chiefly these two ; ( l. ) their looking on religion as a matter of meer interest and design , without any other foundation . ( . ) the unaccountable folly and superstitious fears of mankind ; which makes them think more to be in it than really is . ( . ) looking on the whole business of relion as a matter of interest and design ; first started by some great politicians to tame and govern mankind , and ever since kept up by a company of priests who lived upon the cheat , and therefore were bound to maintain , and to keep it up ; which otherwise would sink to nothing . this is the worst can be said against religion ; and it is bad enough of all reason , if it were true : and we should deserve all the scorn and contempt , which such men treat us with , if we were but accessary to so great a fraud and imposture . but is there such a thing as reason among mankind ? can we judge of what is true and false ; probable or improbable ; certain or uncertain ? or must some things be run down , without examining ? and others taken up , without any other colour of reason , than because they serve to such a purpose ? for gods sake , and for our own sake then , let us consider these things a little better , before we pronounce against them ; or entertain any doubt or suspicion of them in our minds . and there is this great reason for it , that the wisest , the best , the most considering , the most disinteressed men have taken the part of religion , and been zealous defenders of it ; whereas on the other side , the younger , the looser , the more debauched part of mankind , have been most enclined to atheism and irreligion . but if we have not reason of our side , we are content to give up the cause , and to be thought deceivers ( which goes very hardly down with an ingenuous mind ) : and if on the other side , there be nothing found but false and groundless suppositions , or unreasonable suspicions ; i hope , religion may be fairly acquitted from being thought a meer contrivance of politicians , and we from being the silver-smiths to this diana . ( . ) those who make religion to be such a contrivance , must suppose that all mankind were once without any such thing as religion . for , if some crafty politicians did first start the notion of an invisible being among the rude and unthinking multitude , the better to awe them into obedience to government ; then mankind must have lived before those politicians appear'd , with as little sense of god and religion , and with as much security and ease , as to the thoughts of another world , as the very beasts that perish . if this were true , these politicians were so far from consulting the interest of mankind , that they were the greatest enemies to it ; by filling their minds with such unconquerable fears , as rob them of that undisturbed tranquillity which they enjoyed before . but when and where did this race of mankind live , whom these designing men first cheated into the belief of a deity , and the practice of religion ? the eldest writings in the world , without all dispute , are those of the holy scriptures ; and among these , the book of job hath been thought the most antient ; for in all this book we have not one word of the law of moses , or of circumcision ; which makes it very probable to have been written before the children of israels coming out of aegypt ; ( and some arabic writers think that job lived before abraham ; and others , at least in the time of jacob ) however it be , this book of job gives an account of the sense of mankind about religion very early ; and by it we find that the great , and wise , and understanding men of the world , such as job and his three friends were , ( who as far as appears by the story , were all of them independent princes ; such as were common then , and a long time after , in those parts about arabia ) had a mighty sense of god and providence , and the duties of religion upon their minds . and they not only give an ample testimony as to their own times , but they appeal to all the traditions of former times ; enquire i pray thee , of the former age , saith one of job's friends , and prepare thy self to the search of their fathers . for we are but of yesterday , and know nothing . but what is it he appeals to antiquity for , and the observations of all former ages ? it was for this , viz. the bad condition of all that were not sincere in religion : so are the paths of all that forget god , and the hypocrites hope shall perish . and another of his friends speaking of the remarkable judgments of god upon the world , saith to job , hast thou marked the old way which wicked men have trodden ; which were cut down out of time , whose foundation was overthrown with a flood ? i. e. the men of the old world. and what was their great and provoking sin ? a contempt of god and religion , which said unto god , depart from us ; and what can the almighty do for them ? this is the oldest , and truest , and severest instance of such a profane and irreligious temper , and the great mischief it brought upon the world ; which shews , that this is not the original disposition of mankind , but the monstrous degeneracy of it . but if they are unsatisfied with the testimony of job's friends , let them produce any to be mentioned the same day with it , which can pretend to give a truer account of the religion of the first ages of the world : i do not mention moses ( although his authority be unquestionable ) lest he should be thought one of these politicians , who inspired the people of israel with the principles of religion ; but i the rather chuse this instance of the free princes of those parts of the east , who were under subjection to no common authority , yet were so early possessed themselves with such firm principles of religion , and assure us that all good men had the same ; and that they were slighted by none , but such loose and profane wretches , whom god set up for the monuments of his indignation . ( . ) suppose we should allow that in a particular nation , some great and wise man should think fit to reclaim a loose and barbarous people by the principles of religion ; how doth this prove religion to be false , or what doth it signifie to the universal consent of mankind ? is it any argument that there is no foundation in nature for justice , charity , and common humanity , because wise men have been put to use variety of methods to reduce canibals to civility ? and it would be as good arguing against all morality from thence , as against religion , because it was judged by wise men a necessary instrument to civilize mankind . and as far as i can observe , religion and civility have risen and sunk together . the roman orator made a bold challenge , as to the then known world , to name any nation so barbarous , that they had no religion among them . and although the romans knew but little of the habitable world in comparison of what is now known ; yet upon the whole matter , the new discoveries add force and strength to the argument ; onely with annexing this observation , that the more improved and civilized any people have been , the more regard they have had to religion ; the more ignorant , sottish , and barbarous they were , although they were not wholly without religion , yet it was in less esteem and honour among them : and this observation will hold , as to all the nations since discovered both in the east and west-indies . but what a mighty number of politicians must spring out of the earth at once , to scatter the seeds of religion , in such a manner , over all the face of the earth ? it is impossible that a few men , though never so subtle , never so experienced , should be able to captivate all mankind in so great a variety of language , and distance of countries . and such an universal effect must have some common and universal cause ; which the invention of a few crafty men could never be . ( . ) but suppose this to have happened in some one unlucky age , when the earth brought forth such a fruitful crop of politicians ; yet how comes it to pass , since these have so long been laid in their graves , the effect of this policy should still remain all the world over ? for , every age is apt to condemn the policy of the foregoing ; and whether the men of the present age stand upon the shoulders of the precedent or not , they are very apt to think they see farther than they ; how comes it then in so many ages , as have passed since these deep politicians lived , that no other persons have been able to lay open the artifice of religion so , as to free mankind from the pretended slavery of it ? it cannot be said , that there were none to attempt it ; for that were to own an absolute consent of all mankind as to religion . and we know there were some once at athens , who set up with a design to overthrow religion ; but with so very little success , whatever the roman poet boasts , that they were fain to be very private in their meetings : and the city was so little moved with their discourses , that s. paul saith , the men of athens , were in all things too superstitious . it cannot be said , that there were none ready to joyn in such a design ; for all bad men had rather there were no religion at all ; and their number is never small , and never unwilling to carry it on : how comes it then after all , that religion still prevailed , and the fears of a deity could not be shaken off , no not by the greatest politicians themselves , who thought they understood all the arts of government , as well as any that had been before them ? would not some of the roman emperours , who had none to controul them , have been glad to have eased themselves of the fears of an invisible power ? but they found , after all their strugglings , it was a thing not to be done ; god and conscience were so much too hard for their loose reasonings set up against them , that where men had shaken off the love of religion , they could not shake off the fears that follow the contempt of it . but where mankind have been imposed upon , when once the cheat is discovered , all its force is for ever lost : for men do not love to be deceived , especially in matters that so very nearly concern them ; so that if religion had been a trick of so long standing , assuredly it would have been hooted out of the world long ago ; and nothing would have been so ridiculous as to pretend to it . but thanks be to god , the credit of religion is not yet worn out of the world ; which can be owing to nothing but to those invincible reasons , on which it stands . for there hath wanted nothing of wit or malice in profane persons , to undermine and blow up the reputation of it . but the foundations on which it is built , are so firm and stable , and have endured the violent shocks , and secret attempts of so many ages , that as long as reason and civility hold up in the world , we need not question but religion will. if once i begin to see mankind cast off all the reins of civil government , and run wild and savage , quitting all the conveniences and pleasures of houses , and lands , and cloths , to live naked in the woods , and to feed on roots and acorns , because they suspect that all civil government , was a crafty design of some cunning men to get above others ; i may then begin to think that such suspicions about religion , may prevail upon mankind to cast off the most reasonable obligations to maintain the profession and the practice of it . for although the reasons on which religion is grounded , be independent on civil authority , such as the train of causes , the motion , order , beauty , usefulness of all the parts of the universe ; which remain the same in all ages , and under all revolutions : yet the principles of religion do really give so much strength and support to civil government , that none who have a kindness to the one , can be enemies to the other ; and they who suspect religion to be an imposture , will be as ready to suspect all government to be no better : the consequence whereof will be nothing but barbarism and confusion . ( . ) but it may be said , that although the principles of religion in general , are reasonable enough in themselves ; and the things we observe in the world , do naturally lead men to own a deity ; yet when they reflect on the strange folly and superstitious fear of mankind , they are apt still to suspect , that men being puzled and confounded , have frighted themselves into the belief of invisible powers , and performing acts of worship and devotion to them , as appears by so many imaginary deities among the heathen ; and the superstitions which still prevail on so great a part of the world. but this way of reasoning is just as if a man should argue that there is no such thing as true reason in mankind , because imagination is a wild , extravagant , unreasonable thing ; or that we never see anything when we are awake , because in our dreams we fansie we see things which we do not . we cannot deny the follies of mankind about religion , either ancient or modern : but when was it given to all the world to be wise ? it were extremely to be wished , that nothing but pure and undefiled religion should obtain in the world ; or at least , that the christian world were purged from the follies of enthusiasm and superstition . but alas ! the more we consider all the wilful errors , and involuntary mistakes , vicious inclinations , violent passions , foolish opinions , strange prejudices , superficial reasonings , and obstinate resolutions which we incident to mankind , we shall see greater reason to wonder , that there is so much true religion in the world , than that there is no more . nothing but the strong impression god hath made of himself on the souls of men ; nothing but a divine hand could have kept such a flame alive , in the midst of so many contrary winds of mens different passions and interests , and such a rough and tempestuous sea , as the state of this world hath generally been with respect to true religion . but if through the mercy of god it fares better among us , as to outward circumstances ( for which we ought to be very thankful ) let not religion bear the blame of all the follies and indiscretions of those who profess it . it is a hard case , if the common weaknesses of humane nature , and those faults which men commit through the want of religion , shall be laid to the charge of it . but nothing is more apt to incline men of better understandings , to ill thoughts of religion , than to see it made use of , to serve bad purposes and designs , to cover ambitious projects ; and to draw in people the more easily into faction and rebellion ; and while they look on this side of the picture , and see there nothing but the lamentable spectacles of the mischiefs which have been done in the world under the pretence of religion , they are far from thinking those politicians , that invented it ; it being so easily turned upon the government , and being then so dangerous to it . ( which is a farther argument to me , that it could not be a contrivance of such men : for then there would have been no other scheme of religion owned in the world , but that of the leviathan , which being so great a novelty , it is a certain sign , that religion was not framed meerly to serve the ends of government . ) but however , that only true and holy religion which we profess , is so far from giving any encouragement to seditious practices , that it is not possible to contrive a religion , which we must adhere to whatever we suffer for it , that should more effectually recommend the duties of quietness , patience , and submission to authority , than the genuine religion of our saviour doth . as long therefore as the rules of our religion are so plain and easie , so reasonable , so useful and beneficial to mankind , we ought not to lessen our esteem of it , for the sake of any weak , or superstitious , or hypocritical pretenders to it . ii. having thus far shewed , that mens disesteem of religion comes from the want of consideration , i now come to the last thing i designed , as the application of the rest , viz. that the more men do consider , the more they will esteem religion , and apply themselves to the practice of it . and now methinks , i may with greater assurance address my self to all sorts of persons , since all that i shall request , will lie in two very reasonable things , . to consider impartially what is fit for them to do in religion . . to practise so much of religion , as upon consideration will appear fitting to be done . ( . ) to consider impartially what is fit for them to do in religion . i am not going about to perswade you to leave your estates and imployments , and to retire your selves from the world , and to give up your selves wholly to devotion . for i do not deny but that they who serve their prince and their country , and follow their lawful imployments , with an honest and conscientious diligence , and neglect no necessary duties of religion , do carry on the great ends of religion , as well as those , whose time and occasions will give them leave to devote themselves more to fasting and prayer . but let none think the matters of religion to belong to others , and that they have business of another nature to attend upon , as though paying their duty to god , were fit only for those who had nothing else to do . while job was in the height of his prosperity , and was the greatest of all the men of the east ; he tells his friends how much he was employed in doing all the good he could by works of justice and charity ; he was eyes to the blind , and feet to the lame , and a father to the poor : and the cause which he knew not , he searched out ; yet he esteemed the words of gods mouth , or the means whereby his duty was made known to him , more than his necessary food ; he had his set times of offering sacrifice and prayer to god ; and upon extraordinary occasions , he required his children to prepare themselves for the solemn sacrifice by fasting and prayer ; which is meant by sanctifying them . so that not only constant offices of religion , but more solemn acts of devotion at certain seasons , are not only agreeable to the ancient practice of the christian church , but to the most antient principles of natural religion , as they were understood and practised in the time of job ; who was so great a person in gods esteem , that himself , who knew him best , gave that character of him , that there was none like him upon earth ; and therefore we cannot follow a better example . ( . ) let us then set our selves to practise all the known duties of our religion , and the more we consider these things , we shall be more resolved to do it . ( . ) that god infinitely deserves from us all the service we can do him . ( . ) that we cannot serve our selves better , than by faithfully serving him . ( . ) that god infinitely deserves from us all the service we can do him . can a man , saith eliphaz , be profitable to god , as he that is wise may be profitable to himself ? i. e. he cannot : but yet if god expects and requires such service from us , we have no reason to enquire farther ; for we are certain all we can do , falls infinitely short of the obligations he hath laid upon us . for let us consider , was it not god who formed us in our mothers womb , and so curiously framed and fashioned all the parts of our bodies ? was it not he , that breathed into us the breath of life , that first set the wheel in motion by the course of the blood , and setled the cistern in the heart to receive and disperse it , and the pitcher at the fountain , to take it at its return from the veins ? was it not he , that fixed the golden bowl in the head that covers the brain , and stretched out the silver cord of the nerves over the whole body , for the admirable use and service of all the parts ? was it not he , that endued us with those noble faculties of understanding , reasoning , reflecting , remembring , discoursing with others , and governing our selves ? was it not he , that made all the parts of the world about us so serviceable and beneficial to us ? was it not he , that preserved us from so many and great dangers which we have been exposed to by open violence , and secret conspiracies ; by fire , and sword , and plague ; by storms at sea , and upon land too ? was it not he , that hath so often scatter'd the clouds , that threatned us , when the face of the heavens gathered blackness , and all things seemed to tend to confusion ? is it not he , who still wonderfully continues our peace and plenty , amidst all the sad complaints , and miserable condition of our neighbours ? yea , who continues our laws , our government , our religion amidst all the fears and conspiracies which have been among us ? and shall we think much to serve so wise , so merciful , so gracious a god ? is it not he , that hath exercised so much patience , and long-suffering , and goodness towards us in order to our repentance ? that still offers to us the most unvaluable blessings of the pardon of our sins , and everlasting happiness upon our sincere repentance ? yea , is it not he , that hath given his own son to dye for our sins , and exposed him to the reproach and pain of an accursed death upon the cross , that he might be a sacrifice of atonement for us ? and will not all these motives prevail with us to fear and serve him , who hath deserved so much more from us , than the service of our whole lives , in the most perfect obedience , would make a requital for ? shall we then grudge him that proportion of sincere obedience , which he is not only willing to accept of , but hath promised to reward with a crown of everlasting glory ? which is the last thing to be considered . ( . ) that in serving god faithfully , we do most effectually serve our selves , and promote our own interest . men will praise thee , saith the psalmist , when thou dost well to thy self . not , when thou pamperest thy body , and thereby layest a foundation for lusts and diseases ; not , when thou heapest up riches , and knowest not who shall gather them ; not , when thou givest way to all the vanities and follies of a deceitful world : but when thou takest a just care of thy true and lasting interest . for as job saith , god looked on this as the proper wisdom of mankind , unto man he said , the fear of the lord is wisdom , and to depart from evil is understanding . and that is certainly our true wisdom , whereby , we secure our best friend in all conditions , we disappoint our greatest enemies , we lay the surest foundation for peace and tranquillity in our minds while we live , and a blessed eternity when we dye . to which god of his infinite mercy bring us . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e job . . . . . . job . . job . . . job . , . . , . . . job . , . . job . , . . , . . . . . . . . . . job . . . . . . . . . . . . job . . . . . prov. . . . . job . . . job . , . job . . . , , , . ch. . and . prov. . . job . . . . . . exod. . , . psal. . . h. grot. in loc . job . , . job . ▪ . . . . , . greg. abulfurai . hist. dynast . p. . hier. trad. hebr. in gen. . job . . job . . . . , . . act. . . job . . . , &c. . , &c. . . . . . . . job . . eccl. . . psal. . . job . . a relation of a conference held about religion at london by edw. stillingfleet ... with some gentlemen of the church of rome. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing b estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a relation of a conference held about religion at london by edw. stillingfleet ... with some gentlemen of the church of rome. stillingfleet, edward, - . burnet, gilbert, - . [ ], p. printed and are to be sold by randal talor ..., london : . written also by gilbert burnet. cf. nuc pre- . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng transubstantiation -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a relation of a conference held about religion , at london , by edw. stillingfleet , d. d. &c. with some gentlemen of the church of rome . london : printed , and are to be sold by randal taylor near stationers-hall . . the preface . there is nothing that is by a more universal agreement decried , than conferences about controversies of religion : and no wonder , for they have been generally managed with so much heat and passion , parties being more concerned for glory and victory , than truth ; and there is such foul dealing in the accounts given of them , that it is not strange to see these prejudices taken up against them . and yet it cannot be denied , but if men of candor and calmness should discourse about matters of religion , without any other interest than to seek and follow truth , there could not be a more effectual and easie way found for satisfying scruples . more can be said in one hour than read in a day : besides that what is said in a discourse discreetly managed , does more appositely meet with the doubtings and difficulties any body is perplexed with , than is possibly to be found in a book : and since almost all books disguise the opinions of those that differ from them , and represent their arguments as weak , and their opinions as odious ; conferences between those of different perswasions do remedy all these evils . but after all the advantages of this way , it must be confessed that for the greater part men are so engaged to their opinions by interest and other ties , that in conferences most persons are resolved before-hand to yield to no conviction , but to defend every thing : being only concerned to say so much as may darken weaker minds that are witnesses , and give them some occasion to triumph ; at least conceal any foil they may have received , by wrapping up some pittiful shift or other , in such words , and pronouncing them with such accents of assurance , and perhaps scorn , that they may seem to come off with victory . and it is no less frequent to see men after they have been so baffled , that all discerning witnesses are ashamed of them , yet being resolved to make up with impudence what is wanting in truth , as a coward is generally known to boast most , where he has least cause ; publish about what feats they have done , and tell every body they see how the cause in their mouth did triumph over their enemies : that so the praise of the defeat given may be divided between the cause and themselves : and though in modesty they may pretend to ascribe all to truth and the faith they contended for , yet in their hearts they desire the greatest part be offered to themselves . all these considerations with a great many more did appear to us , when the lady t. asked us if we would speak with her husband and some others of the church of rome , as well for clearing such scruples as the perpetual converse with those of that religion had raised in the lady ; as for satisfying her husband , of whose being willing to receive instruction she seemed confident . yet being well assured of the ladies great candor and worth , and being willing to stand up for the vindication and honour of our church , whatever might follow on it , we promised to be ready to wait on her at her house upon advertisement : without any nice treating before-hand , what we should confer about . therefore we neither asked who should be there , nor what number , nor in what method , or on what particulars our discourse should run , but went thither carrying only one friend along with us for a witness . if the discourse had been left to our managing , we resolved to have insisted chiefly on the corruptions in the worship of the roman church : to have shewed on several heads that there was good cause to reform these abuses ; and that the bishops and pastors of this church , the civil authority concurring , had sufficient authority for reforming it . these being the material things in controversie , which must satisfie every person if well made out , we intended to have discoursed about them ; but being put to answer , we followed those we had to deal with . but that we may not forestall the reader in any thing that passed in the ladies chamber , which he will find in the following account , we had no sooner left her house , but we resumed among our selves all had passed , that it might be written down , what ever should follow , to be published if need were . so we agreed to meet again three days after , to compare what could be written down , with our memories . and having met , an account was read , which did so exactly contain all that was spoken , as far as we could remember , that after a few additions , we all three signed the narrative then agreed to . few days had passed , when we found we had need of all that care and caution , for the matter had got wind , and was in every bodies mouth . many of our best friends know how far we were from talking of it , for till we were asked about it , we scarce opened our mouths of it to any person . but when it was said that we had been baffled and foiled , it was necessary for us to give some account of it : not that we were much concerned in what might be thought of us , but that the most excellent cause of our church and religion might not suffer by the misrepresentations of this conference . and the truth was , there was so little said by the gentlemen we spoke with , that was of weight , that we had scarce any occasion given us of speaking about things of importance : so that being but faintly assaulted , we had no great cause of boasting , had we been ever so much inclined to it . at length being weary with the questions put to us about it , we shewed some of our friends the written account of it . and that those of the church of rome might have no pretence to complain of any foul dealing on our part , we caused a copy of it to be writ out , and on the . of april sent it the lady t. to be shewed to them . and one of us , having the honour to meet with her afterwards , desired her to let her husband and the others with him know , that as we had set down very faithfully all we could remember that they had said ; so if they could except at any part of this narrative , or would add any thing that they either did say which we had forgot , or should have said which themselves had forgot to say , we desired they might add it to the account we sent them . for we looked on it as a most unreasonable thing , that the credit of any cause or party should depend on their extemporary faculty of speaking , the quickness of their invention , or the readiness of their memory who discourse about it : though it will appear that in this conference they had all the advantage , and we all the disadvantage possible : since they knew and were resolved what they would put us to , of which we were utterly ignorant : save that about an hour before we went thither , we had an advertisement sent us by a third person , that it was like they would assault us about the articles of our church , particularly that of the blessed sacrament . having made this offer to the lady of adding what they should desire , craving only leave that if they added any thing that was not said , we might be also allowed to add what we should have answered if such things had been said , we resolved to publish nothing till they had a competent time given them , both to make such additions to the narrative , and to consider the paper whereby we hope we have made out according to our undertaking , that the doctrine of the church for the first seven or eight ages was contrary to transubstantiation : which we sent to the lady on the seventeenth of april to be communicated to them . and therefore , though our conference was generally talked of , and all persons desired an account of it might be published ; yet we did delay it till we should hear from them . and meeting on the twenty ninth of april with him who is marked n. n. in the account of the conference , i told him , the foolish talk was made by their party about this conference , had set so many on us , who all called to us to print the account of it , that we were resolved on it : but i desired he might any time between that and trinity sunday , bring me what exceptions he or the other gentlemen had to the account we sent them , which he confessed he had seen . so i desired , that by that day i might have what additions they would make either of what they had said but was forgot by us , or what they would now add upon second thoughts : but longer i told him i could not delay the publishing it . i desired also to know by that time whether they intended any answer to the account we sent them of the doctrine of the fathers about transubstantiation . he confessed he had seen that paper : but by what he then said , it seemed they did not think of any answer to it . and so i waited still expecting to hear from him . at length , on the twentieth of may , n. n. came to me and told me some of these gentlemen were out of town , and so he would not take on him to give any thing in writing ; yet he desired me to take notice of some particulars he mentioned , which i intreated he would write down , that he might not complain of my misrepresenting what he said . this he declined to do , so i told him i would set it down the best way i could , and desired him to call again that he might see if i had written it down faithfully , which he promised to do that same afternoon , and was as good as his word , and i read to him what is subjoyned to the relation of the conference , which he acknowledged was a faithful account of what he had told me . i have considered it i hope to the full , so that it gave me more occasion of canvassing the whole matter . and thus the reader will find a great deal of reason to give an entire credit to this relation , since we have proceeded in it with so much candor , that it is plain we intended not to abuse the credulity of any , but were willing to offer this account to the censure of the adverse party ; and there being nothing else excepted against it , that must needs satisfie every reasonable man that all is true that he has here offered to his perusal . and if these gentlemen or any of their friends publish different or contrary relations of this conference , without that fair and open way of procedure which we have observed towards them ; we hope the reader will be so just as to consider , that our method in publishing this account has been candid and plain , and looks like men that were doing an honest thing , of which they were neither afraid nor ashamed : which cannot in reason be thought of any surreptitious account that like a work of darkness may be let flye abroad , without the name of any person to answer for it on his conscience or reputation : and that at least he will suspend his belief till a competent time be given to shew what mistakes or errors any such relation may be guilty of . we do not expect the reader shall receive great instructions from the following conference , for the truth is , we met with nothing but shufling . so that he will find when ever we came to discourse closely to any head , they very dexterously went off from it to another , and so did still shift off from following any thing was suggested . but we hope every reader will be so just to us as to acknowledge it was none of our fault , that we did not canvass things more exactly , for we proposed many things of great importance to be discoursed on , but could never bring them to fix on any thing . and this did fully satisfie the lady t. when she saw we were ready to have justified our church in all things , but that they did still decline the entering into any matter of weight : so that it appeared both to her and the rest of the company , that what boastings soever they spread about as if none of us would or durst appear in a conference to vindicate our church , all were without ground ; and the lady was by the blessing of god further confirmed in the truth , in which we hope god shall continue her to her lifes end . but we hope the letter and the two discourses that follow , will give the reader a more profitable entertainment . in the letter we give many short hints , and set down some select passages of the fathers , to shew they did not believe transubstantiation . upon all which we are ready to joyn issue to make good every thing in that paper , from which we believe it is apparent the primitive church was wholly a stranger to transubstantiation . it was also judged necessary by some of our friends that we should to purpose , and once for all , expose and discredit that unreasonable demand of shewing all the articles of our church in the express words of scripture : upon which the first discourse was written . and it being found that no answer was made to what n. n. said , to shew that it was not possible the doctrine of transubstantiation could have crept into any age , if those of that age had not had it from their fathers , and they from theirs up to the apostles days , this being also since our conference laid home to me by the same person , it was thought fit to give a full account how this doctrine could have been brought into the church , that so a change may appear to have been not only possible , but also probable , and therefore the second discourse was written . if these discourses have not that full finishing and life which the reader would desire , he must regrate his misfortune in this , that the person who was best able to have written them , and given them all possible advantages out of that vast stock of learning and iudgment he is master of , was so taken up with other work cut out for him by some of these gentlemens friends , of which we shall see an excellent account very speedily , that it was not possible for him to spare so much time for writing these ; so that it fell to the others share to do it : and therefore the reader is not to expect any thing like those high strains of wit and reason which fill all that authors writings , but must give allowance to one that studies to follow him though at a great distance : therefore all can be said from him is , that what is here performed was done by his direction and approbation , which to some degree will again encourage the reader , and so i leave him to the perusal of what follows . the relation of the conference . d. s. and m. b. went to m. l. t 's , as they had been desired by l. t. to confer with some persons upon the grounds of the church of england separating from rome , and to shew how unreasonable it was to go from our church to theirs . about half an hour after them , came in s. p. t. mr. w. and three more . there were present seven or eight ladies , three other church-men , and one or two more . when we were all set d. s. said to s. p. t. that we were come to wait on them for justifying our church ; that he was glad to see we had gentlemen to deal with , from whom he expected fair dealing , as on the other hand he hoped they should meet with nothing from us , but what became our profession . s. p. said , they had protestants to their wives , and there were other reasons too to make them wish they might turn protestants ; therefore he desired to be satisfied in one thing : and so took out the articles of the church , and read these words of the sixth article of the holy scriptures ; [ so that whatsoever is not read therein , nor may be proved thereby , is not to be required of any man that it should be believed as an article of faith , or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation . ] then he turned to the twenty eighth article of the lord's supper , and read these words , [ and the mean whereby the body of christ is received and eaten in the supper , is faith : ] and added , he desired to know whether that was read in scripture or not , and in what place it was to be found . d. s. said , he must first explain that article of the scripture ; for this method of proceeding was already sufficiently known and exposed ; he clearly saw the snare they thought to bring him in , and the advantages they would draw from it . but it was the cause of the church he was to defend , which he hoped he was ready to seal with his blood , and was not to be given up for a trick . the meaning of the sixth article was , that nothing must be received or imposed , as an article of faith , but what was either expresly contained in scripture , or to be deduced and proved from it by a clear consequence : so that if in any article of our church which they rejected , he should either shew it in the express words of scripture , or prove it by a clear consequence , he performed all required in this article . if they would receive this , and fix upon it as the meaning of the article , which certainly it was ; then he would go on to the proof of that other article he had called in question . m. w. said , they must see the article in express scripture , or at least in some places of scripture which had been so interpreted by the church , the councils or fathers , or any one council or father . and he the rather pitched on this article , because he judged it the only article , in which all protestants , except the lutherans , were agreed . d. s. said , it had been the art of all the hereticks from the marcionites days , to call for express words of scripture . it was well known , the arrians set up their rest on this , that their doctrine was not condemned by express words of scripture ; but that this was still rejected by the catholick church , and that theodoret had written a book , on purpose to prove the unreasonableness of this challenge ; therefore he desired they would not insist on that which every body must see was not fair dealing , and that they would take the sixth article entirely , and so go to see if the other article could not be proved from scripture , though it were not contained in express words . m. b. added , that all the fathers , writing against the arrians , brought their proofs of the consubstantiality of the son , from the scriptures , though it was not contained in the express words of any place . and the arrian council , that rejected the words equisubstantial and consubstantial , gives that for the reason , that they were not in the scripture . and that in the council of ephesus , s. cyril brought in many propositions against the nestorians , with a vast collection of places of scripture to prove them by ; and though the quotations from scripture contained not those propositions in express words ; yet the council was satisfied from them , and condemned the nestorians . therefore it was most unreasonable , and against the practice of the catholick church , to require express words of scripture , and that the article was manifestly a disjunctive , where we were to chuse whether of the two we would chuse , either one or other . s. p. t. said , or was not in the article . m. b. said , nor was a negative in a disjunctive proposition , as or was an affirmative , and both came to the same meaning . m. w. said , that s. austin charged the heretick to read what he said in the scripture . m. b. said , s. austin could not make that a constant rule , otherwise he must reject the consubstantiality which he did so zealously assert ; though he might in disputing urge an heretick with it on some other account . d. s. said , the scripture was to deliver to us the revelation of god , in matters necessary to salvation ; but it was an unreasonable thing to demand proofs for a negative in it ; for if the roman church have set up many doctrines , as articles of faith , without proof from the scriptures , we had cause enough to reject these if there was no clear proofs of them from scripture ; but to require express words of scripture for a negative , was as unjust , as if mahomet had said , the christians had no reason to reject him , because there was no place in scripture that called him an impostor . since then the roman church had set up the doctrine of transubstantiation , and the sacrifice of the mass , without either express scripture or good proofs from it , their church had good cause to reject these . m. w. said , the article they desired to be satisfied in was , if he understood any thing , a positive article , and not a negative . m. b. said , the positive article was , that christ was received in the holy sacrament ; but because they had ( as our church judged ) brought in the doctrine of the corporal presence without all reason , the church made that explanation , to cast out the other ; so that upon the matter it was a negative . he added , that it was also unreasonable to ask any one place to prove a doctrine by ; for the fathers in their proceedings with the arrians brought a great collection of places , which gave light to one another , and all concurred to prove the article of faith that was in controversie : so if we brought such a consent of many places of scripture as proved our doctrine , all being joyned together , we perform all that the fathers thought themselves bound to do in the like case . d. s. then at great length told them , the church of rome and the church of england differed in many great and weighty points ; that we were come thither to see , as these gentlemen professed they desired , if we could offer good reason for them to turn protestants , and as the ladies professed a desire to be further established in the doctrine of the church of england ; in order to which , none could think it a proper method to pick out some words in the obscure corner of an article , and call for express scriptures for them . but the fair and fit way was to examine whether the church of england had not very good reason to separate from the communion of the church of rome ; therefore , since it was for truth , in which our souls are so deeply concerned , that we enquired , he desired they would joyn issue to examine either the grounds on which the church of england did separate from the church of rome , or the authority by which she did it : for if there was both good reason for it , and if those who did it , had a sufficient authority to do it , then was the church of england fully vindicated . he did appeal to all that were present , if in this offer he dealt not candidly and fairly , and if all other ways were not shufling . which he pressed with great earnestness , as that only which could satisfie all peoples consciences . m. w. and s. p. t. said , god forbid they should speak one word for the church of rome ; they understood the danger they should run by speaking to that . d. s. said , he hoped they looked on us as men of more conscience and honesty , than to make an ill use of any thing they might say for their church ; that for himself he would die rather than be guilty of so base a thing , the very thought whereof he abhorred . m. b. said , that though the law condemned the endeavouring to reconcile any to the church of rome , yet their justifying their church when put to it , especially to divines , in order to satisfaction which they professed they desired , could by no colour be made a transgression ; and that as we engaged our faith to make no ill use of what should be said , so if they doubted any of the other company , it was s. p. his house , and he might order it to be more private if he pleased . s. p. said , he was only to speak to the articles of the church of england , and desired express words for that article . upon this followed a long wrangling , the same things were said over and over again . in the end m. w. said , they had not asked where that article was read ; that they doubted of it , for they knew it was in no place of scripture , in which they were the more confirmed , because none was so much as alledged , d. s. said , upon the terms in the sixth article he was ready to undertake the twenty eighth article to prove it clearly by scripture . m. w. said , but there must be no interpretations admitted of . m. b. said , it was certain the scriptures were not given to us , as parrots are taught to speak words ; we were endued with a faculty of understanding , and we must understand somewhat by every place of scripture . now the true meaning of the words , being that which god would teach us in the scriptures , which way soever that were expressed , is the doctrine revealed there ; and it was to be considered , that the scriptures were at first delivered ro plain and simple men , to be made use of by all without distinction : therefore we were to look unto them as they did ; and so s. paul wrote his epistles , which were the hardest pieces of the new testament , to all in the churches to whom he directed them . m. w. said , the epistles were written upon emergent occasions , and so were for the use of the churches to whom they were directed . d. s. said , though they were written upon emergent occasions , yet they were written by divine inspiration , and as a rule of faith , not only for those churches , but for all christians . but as m. w. was a going to speak , m. c. came in , upon which we all rose up till he was set ; so being set , after some civilities , d. s. resumed a little what they were about , and told they were calling for express scriptures to prove the articles of our church by . m. c. said , if we be about scriptures , where is the judge that shall pass the sentence who expounds them aright ; otherwise the contest must be endless . d. s. said , he had proposed a matter that was indeed of weight ; therefore he would first shew , that these of the church of rome were not provided of a sufficient or fit judge of controversies . m. c. said , that was not the thing they were to speak to ; for though we destroyed the church of rome all to nought , yet except we built up our own , we did nothing ; therefore he desired to hear what he had to say for our own church ; he was not to meddle with the church of rome , but to hear and be instructed if he could see reason to be of the church of england , for may be it might be somewhat in his way . d. s. said , he would not examine if it would be in his way to be of the church of england , or not , but did heartily acknowledge with great civility that he was a very fair dealer in what he had proposed , and that now he had indeed set us in the right way , and the truth was we were extream glad to get out of the wrangling we had been in before , and to come to treat of matters that were of importance . so after some civilities had passed on both sides , d. s. said , the bishops and pastors of the church of england , finding a great many abuses crept into the church , particularly in the worship of god , which was chiefly insisted upon in the reformation , such as the images of the blessed trinity , the worship whereof was set up and encouraged ; the turning the devotions we ought to offer only to christ , to the blessed virgin , the angels and saints ; that the worship of god was in an unknown tongue ; that the chalice was taken from the people , against the express words of the institution ; that transubstantiation and the sacrifice of the mass were set up ; that our church had good reason to judge these to be heinous abuses , which did much endanger the salvation of souls ; therefore , being the pastors of the church and being assisted in it by the civil powers , they had both good reason and sufficient authority to reform the church from these abuses , and he left it to m. c. to chuse on which of these particulars they should discourse . m. b. said , the bishops and pastors having the charge of souls were bound to feed the flock with sound doctrine , according to the word of god. so s. paul when he charged the bishops of ephesus to feed the flock , and to guard it against wolves or seducers ; he commends them to the word of gods grace , which is the gospel . and in his epistles to timothy and titus , wherein the rules of the pastoral charge are set down , he commands timothy , and in him all bishops and pastors , to hold fast the doctrine and form of sound words which he had delivered , and tells him , the scriptures were able to make the man of god perfect . if then the bishops and pastors of this church found it corrupted by any unsound doctrine , or idolatrous worship , they were by the law of god and the charge of souls for which they were accountable , obliged to throw out these corruptions , and reform the church ; and this the rather , that the first question proposed in the consecration of a bishop , as it is in the pontifical , is , wilt thou teach these things which thou understandest to be in the scripture , to the people committed to thee , both by thy doctrine and example ? to which he answers : i will. m. c. said , we had now offered as much as would be the subject of many days discourse , and he had but few minutes to spare : therefore he desired to be informed what authority those bishops had to judge in matters which they found not only in this church , but in all churches round about them , should they have presumed to judge in these matters . d. s. said , it had been frequently the practice of many nations and provinces to meet in provincial synods , and reform abuses . for which he offered to prove they had both authority and president . but much more in some instances he was ready to shew of particulars that had been defined by general councils , which they only applied to their circumstances ; and this was never questioned but provincial synods might do . m. c. desired to be first satisfied , by what authority they could cut themselves off from the obedience of the see of rome , in king henry the viii . his days . the pope then was looked on as the monarch of the christian world in spirituals , and all christendom was one church , under one head , and had , been so for many ages ; so that if a province or country would cut themselves from the body of this nation ; for instance , wales , that had once distinct princes , and say we acknowledge no right william the conquerour had , so that we reject the authority of those descended from him ; they might have the same plea which this our church had . for the day before that act of parliament did pass , after the . of henry the viii . the pope had the authority in spirituals , and they were his subjects in spirituals : therefore their declaring he had none , could not take his authority from him , no more than the long parliament had right to declare by any act , that the sovereign power was in the peoples hands , in pursuance of which they cut off the kings head. d. s. said , the first general councils , as they established the patriarchal power , so the priviledges of several churches were preserved entire to them , as in the case of cyprus ; that the british churches were not within the patriarchal jurisdiction of rome ; that afterwards the bishops of rome , striking in with the interests of the princes of europe , and watching and improving all advantages , got up by degrees through many ages into that height of authority , which they managed as ill as they unjustly acquired it , and particularly in england ; where , from king william the conqueror's days , as their illegal and oppressive impositions were a constant grievance to the people , so our princes and parliaments were ever put to struggle with them . but to affront their authority , thomas becket , who was a traitour to the law , must be made a saint , and a day kept for him , in which they were to pray to god for mercy through his merits . it continuing thus for several ages , in the end a vigorous prince arises , who was resolved to assert his own authority . and he , looking into the oaths the bishops swore to the pope , they were all found in a praemunire by them . then did the whole nation agree to assert their own freedom , and their kings authority . and 't was considerable , that those very bishops , that in queen maries days did most cruelly persecute those of the church of england , and advance the interests of rome , were the most zealous assertors and defenders of what was done by king henry the viii . therefore the popes power in england , being founded on no just title , and being managed with so much oppression , there was both a full authority and a great deal of reason for rejecting it . and if the maior generals , who had their authority from cromwell , might yet have declared for the king , who had the true title , and against the usurper ; so the bishops , though they had sworn to the pope , yet that being contrary to the allegiance they ow'd the king , ought to have asserted the kings authority , and rejected the pope's . m. b. said , it seemed m. c. founded the popes right to the authority he had in england chiefly upon prescription . but there were two things to be said to that ; first , that no prescription runs against a divine right . in the clearing of titles among men , prescription is in some cases a good title : but if by the laws of god the civil powers have a supream authority over their subjects , then no prescription whatsoever can void this . besides , the bishops having full authority and jurisdiction , this could not be bounded or limited by any obedience the pope claimed from them . further , there can be no prescription in this case , where the usurpation has been all along contested and opposed . we were ready to prove , that in the first ages all bishops were accounted brethren , colleagues , and fellow-bishops with the bishop of rome . that afterwards , as he was declared patriarch of the west , so the other patriarchs were equal in authority to him in their several patriarchates . that britain was no part of his patriarchate , but an exempt , as cyprus was . that his power as patriarch was only for receiving appeals , or calling synods , and did not at all encroach on the jurisdiction of other bishops in their sees ; and that the bishops in his patriarchate did think they might separate from him . a famous instance of this was in the sixth century , when the question was about the tria capitula , for which the western bishops did generally stand , and pope vigilius wrote in defence of them ; but iustinian the emperour having drawn him to constantinople , he consented with the fifth council to the condemning them . upon which at his return many of the western bishops did separate from him . and as victor , bishop of tunes tells us ( who lived at that time ) that pope was synodically excommunicated by the bishops of africk . it is true , in the eighth century the decretal epistles being forged , his pretentions were much advanced : yet his universal jurisdicton was contested in all ages , as might be proved from the known instance of hincmar , bishop of rheims , and many more . therefore , how strong soever the argument from prescription may be in civil things , it is of no force here . m. c. said , now we are got into a contest of years story , but i know not when we shall get out of it . he confessed there was no prescription against a divine right , and acknowledged all bishops were alike in their order , but not in their jurisdiction ; as the bishop of oxford was a bishop as well as the arch-bishop of canterbury , and yet he was inferiour to him in jurisdiction : but desired to know , what was in the popes authority that was so intolerable . d. s. said , that he should only debate about the popes jurisdiction , and to his question , for one particular , that from the days of pope paschal the ii. all bishops swear obedience to the pope , was intolerable bondage . m. c. said , then will you acknowledge that before that oath was imposed the pope was to be acknowledged ? adding , that let us fix a time wherein we say the pope began to usurp beyond his just authority , and he would prove by protestant writers that he had as great power before that time . m. b. said , whatever his patriarchal power was , he had none over britain : for it was plain , we had not the christian faith from the roman church , as appeared from the very story of austin the monk. s. p. t. said , did not king lucius write to the pope upon his receiving the christian faith ? m. c. said , he would wave all that , and ask , if the church of england could justifie her forsaking the obedience of the bishop of rome , when all the rest of the christian world submitted to it ? d. s. said , he wondered to hear him speak so : were not the greek , the armenian , the nestorian , and the abissen churches separated from the roman ? m. c. said , he wondered as much to hear him reckon the nestorians among the churches that were condemned hereticks . d. s. said , it would be hard for him to prove them nestorians . m. c. asked , why he called them so then ? d. s. answered , because they were generally best known by that name . m. w. said , did not the greek church reconcile it self to the roman church at the council of florence ? d. s. said , some of their bishops were partly trepanned , partly threatned into it ; but their church disowned them and it both , and continues to do so to this day . m. w. said , many of the greek church were daily reconciled to the church of rome , and many of the other eastern bishops had sent their obedience to the pope . d. s. said , they knew there was enough to be said to these things , that these arts were now pretty well discovered : but he insisted to prove , the usurpations of rome were such as were inconsistent with the supreme civil authority , and shewed the oath in the pontificale , by which , for instance , if the pope command a bishop to go to rome , and his king forbid it , he must obey the pope , and disobey the king. m. c. said , these things were very consistent , that the king should be supream in civils , and the pope in spirituals ; so that if the pope commanded a thing that were civil , the king must be obeyed and not he . m. b. said , by the words of the oath , the bishops were to receive and help the pope's legates both in coming and going . now suppose the king declared it treason to receive the legate , yet in this case the bishops are sworn to obey the pope , and this was a case that fell out often . d. s. instanced the case of queen mary . m. c. said , if he comes with false mandates he is not a legate . m. b. said , suppose , as has fallen out an hundred times , he comes with bulls , and well warranted , but the king will not suffer him to enter his dominions , here the bishops must either be traitors , or perjured . m. c. said , all these things must be understood to have tacite conditions in them , though they be not expressed , and gave a simile which i have forgot . d. s. said , it was plain , paschal the second devised that oath on purpose to cut off all those reserves of their duty to their princes . and therefore the words are so full and large , that no oath of allegiance was ever conceived in more express terms . m. b. said , it was yet more plain from the words that preceed that clause about legates , that they shall be an no counsel to do the pope any injury , and shall reveal none of his secrets . by which a provision was clearly made , that if the pope did engage in any quarrel or war with any prince , the bishops were to assist the popes as their sworn subjects , and to be faithful spies and correspondents to give intelligence . as he was saying this , l. t. did whisper d. s. who presently told the company , that the ladies , at whose desire we came thither , entreated we would speak to things that concerned them more , and discourse on the grounds on which the reformation proceeded ; and therefore since he had before named some of the most considerable ; he desired we might discourse about some of these . m. c. said , name any thing in the roman church that is expresly contrary to scriptures ; but bring not your expositions of scripture to prove it by , for we will not admit of these . m. b. asked , if they did not acknowledge that it was only by the mediation of christ that our sins were pardoned , and eternal life given to us . m. c. answered , no question of it at all . m. b. said , then have we not good reason to depart from that church , that in an office of so great and daily use as was the absolution of penitents , after the words of absolution enjoyns the following prayer to be used ( which he read out of their ritual ) [ the passion of our lord jesus christ , the merits of the blessed virgin mary , and of all the saints , and whatever good thou hast done , or evil thou hast suffered , be to thee for the remission of sins , the encrease of grace , and the reward of eternal life ] from whence , it plainly follows , that their church ascribes the pardon of all sins , and the eternal salvation of their penitents , to the merits of the blessed virgin and the saints , as well as the passion of our blessed saviour . m. c. said , here was a very severe charge put in against their church without any reason , for they believed that our sins are pardoned , and our souls are saved , only by the merits of jesus christ ; but that several things may concur in several orders or ways to produce the same effects : so although we are pardoned and saved only through jesus christ , yet , without holiness we shall never see god ; we must also suffer whatever crosses he tries us with . so that these , in another sense , procure the pardon of our sins , and eternal salvation . thus in like manner the prayers of the blessed virgin and the saints are great helps to our obtaining these : therefore though these be all joyned together in the same prayer , yet it was an unjust charge on their church to say they make them equal in their value or efficiency . m. b. said , the thing he had chiefly excepted against in that prayer , was , that these things are ascribed to the merits of the blessed virgin and the saints . now he had only spoken of their prayers , and he appealed to all if the natural meaning of these words was not that he charged on them , and the sense the other had offered was not forced . m. c. said , by merits were understood prayers , which had force and merit with god. m. b. said , that could not be , for in another absolution , in the office of our lady , they pray for remission of sins through the merits and prayers of the blessed virgin : so that by merits must be meant somewhat else than their prayers . m. c. said , that as by our prayers on earth we help one anothers souls , so by our giving alms for one another we might do the same ; so also the saints in heaven might be helpful to us by their prayers and merits . and as soon as he had spoken this he got to his feet , and said he was in great haste , and much business lay on him that day ; but said to d. s. that when he pleased , he would wait on him , and discourse of the other particulars at more length . d. s. assured him , that whenever he pleased to appoint it , he should be ready to give him a meeting . and so he went away . then we all stood and talked to one another , without any great order , near half a hour , the discourse being chiefly about the nags-head fable . d. s. appealed to the publick registers , and challenged the silence of all the popish writers all queen elizabeth's reign , when such a story was fresh and well known : and if there had been any colour for it , is it possible they could keep it up , or conceal it ? s. p. t. said , all the registers were forged , and that it was not possible to satisfie him in it , no more than to prove he had not four fingers on his hand : and being desired to read dr. bramhali's book about it , he said he had read it six times over , and that it did not satisfie him . m. b. asked him , how could any matter of fact that was a hundred years old be proved , if the publick registers , and the instruments of publick notaries were rejected ? and this the more , that this being a matter of fact which could not be done in a corner , nor escape the knowledge of their adversaries , who might have drawn great and just advantages from publishing and proving it ; yet that it was never so much as spoken of while that race was alive , is as ● an evidence as can be , that the forgery was on the other side . d. s. did clear the objection from the commission and act of parliament , that it was only for making the ordination legal in england , since in edw. . time the book of ordination was not joyned in the record to the book of common-prayer ; from whence bishop bonner took occasion to deny their ordination , as not according to law ; and added , that saunders , who in queen elizabeth's time denied the validity of our ordination , never alledged any such story . but as we were talking freely of this , m. w. said , once or twice , they were satisfied about the chief design they had in that meeting , to see if there could be alledged any place of scripture to prove that article about the blessed sacrament , and said somewhat that looked like the beginning of a triumph . upon which , d. s. desired all might sit down again , that they might put that matter to an issue : so a bible was brought , and d. s. being spent with much speaking , desired m. b. to speak to it . m. b. turned to the th chap. of iohn , vers . . and read these words , whose eateth my flesh , and drinketh my blood , hath eternal life , and added , these words were , according to the common interpretation of their church , to be understood of the sacramental manducation . this m. w. granted , only m. b. had said , all the doctors understood these words so , and m. w. said , that all had not done so , which m. b. did acknowledge , but said it was the received exposition in their church , and so framed his argument . eternal life is given to every one that receives christ in the sacrament . but by faith only we get eternal life ; therefore by faith only we receive christ in the sacrament . otherwise , he said , unworthy receivers must be said to have eternal life , which is a contradiction , for as such they are under condemnation ; yet the unworthy receivers have the external manducation : therefore that manducation that gives eternal life with it , must be internal and spiritual , and that is by faith. a person , whose name i know not , but shall henceforth mark him n. n. asked what m. b. meant , by faith only ? m. b. said , by faith he meant such a believing of the gospel , as carried along with it evangelical obedience : by faith only , he meant faith as opposite to sense . d. s. asked him if we received christ's body and blood by our senses ? n. n. said , we did . d. s. asked which of the senses , his taste , or touch , or sight , for that seemed strange to him ? n. n. said , we received christ's body with our senses , as well as we did the substance of bread ; for our senses did not receive the substance of bread : and did offer some things to illustrate this , both from the aristotelian and cartesian hypothesis . d. s. said , he would not engage in that subtlety which was a digression from the main argument , but he could not avoid to think it a strange assertion , to say we received christ by our senses , and yet to say he was so present there , that none of our senses could possibly perceive him . but to the main argument . m. w. denied the minor , that by faith only we have eternal life . m. b. proved it thus , the sons of god have eternal life , but by faith only we become the sons of god : therefore by faith only we had eternal life . m. w. said , except he gave them both major and minor in express words of scripture , he would reject the argument . m. b. said , that if he did demonstrate that both the propositions of his argument were in the strictest construction possible equivalent to clear places of scripture , then his proofs were good ; therefore he desired to know which of the two propositions he should prove , either that the sons of god have eternal life , or that by faith only we are the sons of god. m. w. said , he would admit of no consequences , how clear soever they seemed , unless he brought him the express words of scripture , and asked if his consequences were infallible . d. s. said , if the consequence was certain , it was sufficient ; and he desired all would take notice that they would not yield to clear consequences drawn from scripture , which he thought ( and he believed all impartial people would be of his mind ) was as great an advantage to any cause , as could be desired : so we laid aside that argument , being satisfied that the article of our church , which they had called in question , was clearly proved from scripture . then n. n. insisted to speak of the corporal presence , and desired to know upon what grounds we rejected it . m. b. said , if we have no better reason to believe christ was corporally present in the sacrament , than the jews had to believe that every time they did eat their pascha , the angel was passing by their houses , and smiting the first born of the aegyptians ; then we have no reason at all ; but so it is that we have no more reason . n. n. denied this , and said we had more reason . m. b. said , all the reason we had to believe it was , because christ said , this is my body ; but moses said of the paschal festivity , this is the lords passover ; which was always repeated by the jews in that anniversary . now the lords passover was the lords passing by the israelites when he slew the first born of aegypt . if then we will understand christs words in the strictly literal sense , we must in the same sense understand the words of moses : but if we understand the words of moses in any other sense , as the commemoration of the lords passover , then we ought to understand christs words in the same sense . the reason is clear ; for christ being to substitute this holy sacrament in room of the jewish pascha , and he using in every thing , as much as could agree with his blessed designs , forms as near the jewish customs as could be , there is no reason to think he did use the words , this is my body , in any other sense than the jews did , this is the lords passover . n. n. said , the disparity was great . first , christ had promised before-hand he would give them his body . secondly , it was impossible the lamb could be the lords passover in the literal sense , because an action that had been past some hundreds of years before could not be performed every time they did eat the lamb , but this is not so . thirdly , the jewish church never understood these words literally , but the christian church hath ever understood these words of christ literally . nor is it to be imagined that a change in such a thing was possible , for how could any such opinion have crept in , in any age , if it had not been the doctrine of the former age ? m. b. said , nothing he had alledged was of any force . for the first , christ's promise imported no more than what he performed in the sacramental institution . if then it be proved that by saying , this is my body , he only meant a commemoration , his promise must only relate to his death commemorated in the sacrament . to the second , the literal meaning of christ's words is as impossible as the literal meaning of moses's words ; for besides all the other impossibilities that accompany this corporal presence , it is certain christ gives us his body in the sacrament as it was given for us , and his blood as it was shed for us , which being done only on the cross above years ago , it is as impossible that should be literally given at every consecration , as it was that the angel should be smiting the aegyptians every paschal festivity . and here was a great mistake they went on securely in ; that the body of christ we receive in the sacrament , is the body of christ , as he is now glorified in heaven ; for by the words of the institution it is clear , that we receive his body as it was given for us when his blood was shed on the cross , which being impossible to be reproduced now , we only can receive christ by faith. for his third difference , that the christian church ever understood christ's words so , we would willingly submit to the decision of the church in the first six ages . could any thing be more express than theodoret , who arguing against the eutychians that the humanity and divinity of christ were not confounded nor did depart from their own substance , illustrates it from the eucharist in which the elements of bread and wine do not depart from their own substance . m. w. said , we must examine the doctrine of the fathers not from some occasional mention they make of the sacrament , but when they treat of it on design and with deliberation . but to theodoret he would oppose s. cyril of ierusalem , who in his fourth mist. catechism says expresly , though thou see it to be bread , yet believe it is the flesh and the blood of the lord jesus ; doubt it not , since he had said , this is my body . and for a proof , instances christ's changing the water into wine . d. s. said , he had proposed a most excellent rule for examining the doctrine of the fathers in this matter , not to canvase what they said in eloquent and pious treaties or homilies to work on peoples devotion , in which case it is natural for all persons to use high expressions ; but we are to seek the real sense of this mystery when they are dogmatically treating of it and the other mysteries of religion where reason and not eloquence takes place . if then it should appear , that at the same time both a bishop of rome and constantinople , and one of the greatest bishops in africk did in asserting the mysteries of religion go downright against transubstantiation , and assert that the substance of the bread and wine did remain ; he hoped all would be satisfied the fathers did not believe as they did . m. w. desired we would then answer the words of cyril . m. b. said , it were a very unreasonable thing to enter into a verbal dispute about the passages of the fathers , especially the books not being before us ; therefore he promised an answer in writing to the testimony of s. cyril . but now the matter was driven to a point , and we willingly undertook to prove , that for eight or nine centuries after christ the fathers did not believe transubstantiation , but taught plainly the contrary : the fathers generally call the elements bread and wine after the consecration , they call them mysteries , types , figures , symbols , commemorations , and signs of the body and blood of christ : they generally deliver , that the wicked do not receive christ in the sacrament , which shews they do not believe transubstantiation . all this we undertook to prove by undeniable evidences within a very few days or weeks . m. w. said , he should be glad to see it . d. s. said , now we left upon that point which by the grace of god we should perform very soon ; but we had offered to satisfie them in the other grounds of the separation from the church of rome : if they desired to be farther informed we should wait on them when they pleased . so we all rose up and took leave , after we had been there about three hours . the discourse was carried on , on both sides , with great civility and calmness , without heat or clamour . this is as far as my memory , after the most fixed attention when present , and careful recollection since , does suggest to me , without any biass or partiality , not having failed in any one material thing as far as my memory can serve me : this i declare as i shall answer to god. signed as follows , gilbert burnet . this narrative was read , and i do hereby attest the truth of it . edw. stillingfleet . being present at the conference , i do , according to my best memory , judge this a just and true narrative thereof . will. nailor . the addition which n. n. desired might be subjoined to the relation of the conference if it were published , but wished rather that nothing at all might be made publick that related to the conference . the substance of what n. n. desired me to take notice of , was , that our eating christ's flesh and drinking his blood doth as really give everlasting life , as almsgiving , or any other good works gives it , where the bare external action , if separated from a good intention and principle , is not acceptable to god. so that we must necessarily understand these words of our saviour with this addition of worthily , that whoso eats his flesh and drinks his blood in the sacrament worthily , hath everlasting life ; for , he said , he did not deny but the believing the death of christ was necessary in communicating , but it is not by faith only we receive his body and blood . for as by faith we are the sons of god , yet it is not only by faith , but also by baptism , that we become the sons of god ; so also christ saith , he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved ; yet this doth not exclude repentance and amendment of life from being necessary to salvation : therefore the universality of the expression , whoso eats , does not exclude the necessity of eating worthily that we may have everlasting life by it . and so did conclude , that since we believe we have all our faith in the holy scriptures , we must prove from some clear scriptures , by arguments that consist of a major and minor , that are either express words of scripture or equivalent to them , that christ was no otherwise present in the sacrament , than spiritually , as he is received by faith. and added , that it was impertinent to bring impossibilities either from sense or reason against this , if we brought no clear scriptures against it . to this he also added , that when d. s. asked him by which of his senses he received christ in the sacrament , he answered , that he might really receive christ's body at his mouth , though none of his senses could perceive him , as a bole or pill is taken in a syrup or any other liquor ; so that i really swallow it over though my senses do not taste it : in like manner , christ is received under the accidents of bread and wine , so that though our senses do not perceive it , yet he is really taken in at our mouth , and goes down into our stomach . answer . having now set down the strength of n. n. his plea upon second thoughts , i shall next examine it . the stress of all lies in this , whether we must necessarily supply the words of christ with the addition of worthily : he affirms it , i deny it , for these reasons . christ in this discourse was to shew how much more excellent his doctrine was than was moses's law , and that moses gave manna from heaven to nourish their bodies , notwithstanding which they died in the wilderness : but christ was to give them food to their souls ; which if they did eat they should never die , for it should give them life : where it is apparent , the bread and nourishment must be such , as the life was , which being internal and spiritual , the other must be such also : and vers . . he clearly explains how that food was received , he that believeth on me hath everlasting life . now having said before that this bread gives life , and here saying that believing gives everlasting life , it very reasonably follows , that believing was the receiving this food ; which is yet clearer from verse . where the iews having desired him evermore to give them that bread , he answers , verse . i am the bread of life , be that comes to me shall never hunger , and he that believeth on me shall never thirst . which no man , that is not strangely prepossessed , can consider , but he must see it is an answer to their question , and so in it he tells them , that their coming to him , and believing , was the mean of receiving that bread. and here it must be considered , that christ calls himself bread , and says , that a man must eat thereof , which must be understood figuratively ; and if figures be admitted in some parts of that discourse , it is unjust to reject the applying the same figures to other parts of it . in fine , christ tells them this bread was his flesh which he was to give for the life of the world , which can be applied to nothing but the offering up himself on the cross. this did , as it was no wonder , startle the jews , so they murmured , and said , how can this man give us his flesh to eat ? to which christs answer is so clear , that it is indeed strange there should remain any doubting about it . he first tells them , except they eat the flesh and drink the blood of the son of man , they had no life in them . where on the way mark , that drinking the blood is as necessary as eating the flesh ; and these words being expounded of the sacrament , cannot but discover them extreamly guilty who do not drink the blood. for suppose the doctrine of the blood 's concomitating the flesh were true ; yet even in that case they only eat the blood , but cannot be said to drink the blood. but from these words it is apparent christ must be speaking chiefly , if not only of the spiritual communicating : for otherwise no man can be saved , that hath not received the sacrament . the words are formal and positive , and christ having made this a necessary condition of life , i see not how we dare promise life to any that hath never received it . and indeed it was no wonder that those fathers who understood these words of the sacrament , appointed it to be given to infants immediately after they were baptized ▪ for that was a necessary consequence that followed this exposition of our saviours words . and yet the church of rome will not deny , but if any die before he is adult , or if a person converted be in such circumstances that it is not possible for him to receive the sacrament , and so dies without it , he may have everlasting life : therefore they must conclude , that christs flesh may be eaten by faith even without the sacrament . again in the next verse he says , whoso eateth my flesh , and drinketh my blood , hath eternal life . these words must be understood in the same sense they had in the former verse , they being indeed the reverse of it . therefore since there is no addition of worthily necessary to the fence of the former verse , neither is it necessary in this . but it must be concluded christ is here speaking of a thing without which none can have life : and by which all have life : therefore when ever christs flesh is eaten , and his blood is drunk , which is most signally done in the sacrament , there eternal life must accompany it ; and so these words must be understood , even in relation to the sacrament , only of the spiritual communicating by faith. as when it is said , a man is a reasonable creature : though this is said of the whole man , body and soul ; yet when we see that upon the dissolution of soul and body no reason or life remains in the body , we from thence positively conclude the reason is seated only in the soul ; though the body has organs that are necessary for its operations : so when it is said we eat christs flesh , and drink his blood in the sacrament , which gives eternal life ; there being two things in it , the bodily eating and the spiritual communicating ; though the eating of christs flesh is said to be done in the worthy receiving , which consists of these two , yet since we may clearly see the bodily receiving may be without any such effects , we must conclude that the eating of christs flesh is only done by the inward communicating ; though the other , that is the bodily part , be a divine organ , and conveyance of it . and as reason is seated only in the soul , so the eating of christs flesh must be only inward and spiritual , and so the mean by which we receive christ in the supper is faith. all this is made much clearer by the words that follow , my flesh is meat indeed , and my blood is drink indeed . now christs flesh is so eaten , as it is meat ; which i suppose none will question , it being a prosecution of the same discourse . now it is not meat as taken by the body , for they cannot be so gross as to say , christs flesh is the meat of our body ; therefore since his flesh is only the meat of the soul and spiritual nourishment , it is only eaten by the soul , and so received by faith. christ also says , he that eateth my flesh and drinks my blood dwells in him and he in him . this is the definition of that eating and drinking he had been speaking of ; so that such as is the dwelling in him , such also must be the eating of him : the one therefore being spiritual , inward , and by faith , the other must be such also . and thus it is as plain as can be , from the words of christ , that he spake not of a carnal or corporal , but of a spiritual eating of his flesh by faith. all this is more confirmed by the key our saviour gives of his whole discourse , when the iews were offended for the hardness of his sayings , it is the spirit that quickneth ( or giveth the life he had been speaking of ) the flesh profiteth nothing , the words i speak unto you are spirit , and they are life . from which it is plain he tells them to understand his words of a spiritual life , and in a spiritual manner . but now i shall examine n. n. his reasons to the contrary . his chief argument is , that when eternal life is promised upon the giving of alms , or other good works , we must necessarily understand it with this proviso , that they were given with a good intention , and from a good principle : therefore we must understand these words of our saviour to have some such proviso in them . all this concludes nothing . it is indeed certain when any promise is past upon an external action , such a reserve must be understood . and so st. paul tells us , if he bestowed all his goods to feed the poor , and had no charity , it profited him nothing . and if it were clear our saviour were here speaking of an external action , i should acknowledge such a proviso must be understood ; but that is the thing in question ; and i hope i have made it appear our saviour is speaking of an internal action , and therefore no such proviso is to be supposed . for he is speaking of that eating of his flesh , which must necessarily and certainly be worthily done , and so that objection is of no force . he must therefore prove , that the eating his flesh is primarily and simply meant of the bodily eating in the sacrament ; and not only by a denomination , from a relation to it : as the whole man is called reasonable , though the reason is seated in the soul only what he says to shew that by faith only we are not the sons of god , since by baptism also we are the sons of god , is not to the purpose : for the design of the argument , was to prove that by faith only we are the sons of god , so as to be the heirs of eternal life . now the baptism of the adult ( for our debate runs upon those of ripe years and understanding ) makes them only externally , and sacramentally the sons of god : for the inward and vital sonship follows only upon faith. and this faith must be understood of such a lively and operative faith , as includes both repentance and amendment of life . so that when our saviour says , he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved , that believing is a complex of all evangelical graces ; from which it appears , that none of his reasons are of force enough to conclude that the universality of these words of christ ought to be so limited and restricted . for what remains of that which he desired might be taken notice of , that we ought to prove that christs body and blood was present in the sacrament only spiritually and not corporally by express scriptures , or by arguments whereof the major and minor were either express words of scripture , or equivalent to them : it has no force at all in it . i have in a full discourse examined all that is in the plea concerning the express words of scripture ; and therefore shall say nothing upon that head , referring the reader to what he will meet with on that subject afterwards . but here i only desire the reader may consider , our contest in this particular is concerning the true meaning of our saviours words , this is my body , in which it is very absurd to ask for express words of scripture , to prove that meaning by . for if that be setled on , as a necessary method of proof , then when other scriptures are brought to prove that to be the meaning of these words ; it may be asked how can we prove the true meaning of that place we bring to prove the meaning of this by ? and so by a progress for ever we must contend about the true meaning of every place . therefore when we enquire into the sense of any controverted place ; we must judge of it by the rules of common sense and reason , of religion and piety , and if a meaning be affixed to any place contrary to these , we have good reason to reject it . for we , knowing all external things only by our senses , by which only the miracles and resurrection of christ could be proved , which are the means god has given us to converse with , and enjoy his whole creation ; and evidence our senses give being such , as naturally determines our perswasions , so that after them we cannot doubt : if then a sense be offered to any place of scripture that does overthrow all this , we have sufficient reason on that very account to reject it . if also any meaning be fastened on a place of scripture that destroys all our conceptions of things , is contrary to the most universally receiv'd maxims , subverts the notions of matter and accidents , and in a word , confounds all our clearest apprehensions ; we must also reject every such gloss , since it contradicts the evidence of that which is god's image in us . if also a sense of any place of scripture be proposed that derogates from the glorious exaltation of the humane nature of our blessed saviour , we have very just reasons to reject it , even though we could bring no confirmation of our meaning from express words of scripture : therefore this dispute being chiefly about the meaning of christ's words , he that shews best reasons to prove that his sense is consonant to truth , does all that is necessary in this case . but after all this , we decline not to shew clear scriptures for the meaning our church puts on these words of christ. it was bread that christ took , blessed , brake , and gave his disciples . now the scripture calling it formally bread , destroys transubstantiation . christ said , this is my body , which are declarative , and not imperative words , such as , let there be light , or , be thou whole . now all declarative words suppose that which they affirm to be already true , as is most clear ; therefore christ pronounces what the bread was become by his former blessing , which did sanctifie the elements : and yet after that blessing it was still bread . again , the reason and end of a thing is that which keeps a proportion with the means toward it ; so that christ's words , do this in remembrance of me , shew us , that his body is here only in a vital and living commemoration and communication of his body and blood. farther , christ telling us , it was his body that was given for us , and his blood shed for us , which we there receive ; it is apparent , he is to be understood present in the sacrament ; not as he is now exalted in glory , but as he was on the cross when his blood was shed for us . and in fine , if we consider that those to whom christ spake were jews , all this will be more easily understood : for it was ordinary for them to call the symbol by the name of the original it represented . so they called the cloud between the cherubims , god and iehovah , according to these words , o thou that dwellest between the cherubims : and all the symbolical apparitions of god to the patriarchs and the prophets , were said to be the lord appearing to them . but that which is more to this purpose , is , that the lamb that was the symbol and memorial of their deliverance out of egypt , was called the lord's passover . now though the passover then was only a type of our deliverance by the death of christ , yet the lamb was in proportion to the passover in egypt , as really a representation of it , as the sacrament is of the death of christ. and it is no more to be wondered that christ called the elements his body and blood , though they were not so corporally , but only mystically , and sacramentally ; than that moses called the lamb the lord 's passover . so that it is apparent it was common among the jews to call the symbol and type by the name of the substance and original . therefore our saviour's words are to be understood in the sense and stile that was usual among these to whom he spake , it being the most certain rule of understanding any doubtful expression , to examine the ordinary stile and forms of speech in that age , people , and place , in which such phrases were used . this is signally confirmed by the account which maimonides gives us of the sense in which eating and drinking is oft taken in the scriptures . first , he says , it stands in its natural signification , for receiving bodily food : then because there are two things done in eating , the first is the destruction of that which is eaten , so that it loseth its first form ; the other is the increase and nourishment of the substance of the person that eats : therefore he observes that eating has two other significations in the language of the scriptures : the one is destruction and desolation ; so the sword is said to eat , or as we render it , to devour ; so a land is said to eat its inhabitants , and so fire is said to eat or consume : the other sense it is taken in does relate to wisdom , learning , and all intellectual apprehensions , by which the form ( or soul ) of man is conserved from the perfection that is in them , as the body is preserved by food . for proof of this , he cites divers places out of the old testament , as isa. . . come buy and eat , and prov. . . and prov. . . he also adds , that their rabbins commonly call wisdom , eating ; and cites some of their sayings , as , come and eat flesh in which there is much fat , and that whenever eating and drinking is in the book of the proverbs , it is nothing else but wisdom or the law. so also wisdom is often called water , isa. . . and he concludes , that because this sense of eating occurs so often , and is so manifest and evident , as if it were the primary and most proper signification of the word , therefore hunger and thirst do also stand for a privation of wisdom and understanding , as amos. . . to this he also refers that of thirsting , psal. . . and isa. . . and ionathan paraphrasing these words , ye shall draw water out of the wells of salvation , renders it . ye shall receive a new doctrine with joy from the select ones among the iust , which is farther confirmed from the words of our saviour , iohn . . and from these observations of the learnedest and most judicious among all the rabbins , we see that the iews understood the phrases of eating and eating of flesh in this spiritual and figurative sense of receiving vvisdom and instruction . so that this being an usual form of speech among them , it is no strange thing to imagine how our saviour , being a iew according to the flesh , and conversing with iews , did use these terms and phrases in a sense that was common to that nation . and from all these set together , we are confident we have a great deal of reason , and strong and convincing authorities from the scriptures , to prove christ's words , this is my body , are to be understood spiritually , mystically , and sacramentally . there remains only to be considered what weight there is in what n. n. says . he answered to d. s. that christ might be received by our senses though not perceived by any of them , as a bole is swallowed over , though our taste does not relish or perceive it . that great man is so very well furnished with reason and learning to justifie all he says , that no other body needs interpose on his account . but he being now busie , it was not worth the giving him the trouble , to ask how he would reply upon so weak an answer , since its shallowness appears at the first view : for is there any comparison to be made between an object that all my senses may perceive , if i have a mind to it , that i see with mine eyes , and touch , and feel in my mouth , and if it be too big , and my throat too narrow , i will feel stick there ; but only to guard against its offensive taste , i so wrap or convey it , that i relish nothing ungrateful in it : and the receiving christ with my senses , when yet none of them either do , or can , though applied with all possible care , discern him ? so that it appears d. s. had very good reason to say , it seemed indeed strange to him , to say , that christ was received by our senses , and yet was so present that none of our senses can perceive him : and this answer to it is but mere trifling . here follows the paper we promised , wherein an account is given of the doctrine of the church for the first eight centuries in the point of the sacrament , which is demonstrated to be contrary to transubstantiation ; written in a letter to my lady t. madam , your ladiship may remember , that our meeting at your house on the third instant , ended with a promise we made , of sending you such an account of the sense of the fathers for the first six ages , as might sufficiently satisfie every impartial person , that they did not believe transubstantiation . this promise we branched out in three propositions : first , that the fathers did hold , that after the consecration the elements of bread and wine did remain unchanged in their substance . the second was , that after the consecration they called the elements the types , the antitypes , the mysteries , the symbols , the signs , the figures , and the commemorations of the body and blood of christ ; which certainly will satisfie every unprejudiced person , that they did not think the bread and wine were annihilated , and that in their room , and under their accidents , the substance of the body and blood of christ was there . thirdly , we said , that by the doctrine of the fathers the unworthy receivers got not the body and the blood of christ ; from which it must necessarily follow , that the substance of his body and blood is not under the accidents of bread and wine ; otherwise all these that unworthily receive them eat christ's body and blood . therefore , to discharge our selves of our promise , we shall now give your ladiship such an account of the doctrine of the fathers on these heads , as we hope shall convince those gentlemen , that we had a good warrant for what we said . the first proposition is , the fathers believed that after the consecration the elements were still bread and wine . the proofs whereof we shall divide into three branches : the first shall be , that after the consecration they usually called them bread and wine . secondly , that they expresly assert , that the substance of bread and wine remained . thirdly , that they believed the sacramental bread and wine did nourish our bodies . for proof of the first , we desire the following testimonies be considered : iustin martyr says , these who are called deacons distribute the blessed bread and wine and water to such as are present , and carry it to the absents , and this nourishment is by us called the eucharist . and a little after , we do not receive these as common bread , or common drink ; for as by the word of god iesus christ our saviour being made flesh , had both flesh and blood for our salvation , so we are taught , that that food by which our blood and flesh are nourished , by its change , being blessed by the word of prayer which he gave us , is both the flesh and the blood of the incarnate iesus . thus that martyr , that wrote an hundred and fifty years after christ , calls the elements bread and wine , and the nourishment which being changed into flesh and blood nourishes them . and saying , it is not common bread and vvine , he says , that it was still so in substance ; and his illustrating it with the incarnation , in which the humane nature did not lose nor change its substance in its union with the eternal word , shews , he thought not the bread and wine lost their substance when they became the flesh and blood of christ. the next witness is irenaeus , who writing against the valentinians , that denied the father of our lord jesus to be the creator of the world , and also denied the resurrection of the body , confutes both these heresies by arguments drawn from the eucharist . to the first he says , if there be another creator than the father of our lord , then our offering creatures to him , argues him covetous of that which is not his own , and so we reproach him rather than bless him . and adds , how does it appear to any of them , that that bread over which thanks are given , is the body of his lord , and the cup of his blood , if he be not the son of the creator . and he argues against their saying , our bodies should not rise again that are fed by the body and blood of christ : for , says he , that bread which is of the earth , having had the invocation of god over it , is no more common bread , but the eucharist , consisting of two things , an earthly and an heavenly ; so our bodies that receive the eucharist are no more corruptible , having the hope of the resurrection . tertullian ( lib. . adv . marc. c. . ) proving against marcion , that christ was not contrary to the creator , among other proofs which he brings to shew , that christ made use of the creatures , and neither rejected water , oil , milk , or hony , he adds , neither did he reject bread , by which he represents his own body . and further says , ( lib. . adv . marc. c. . ) christ calls bread his body , that from thence you may understand , that he gave the figure of his body to the bread. origen says , ( lib. . cont . celsum . ) we eat of the loaves set before us , with thanks giving and prayers over what is given to us , which by the prayer are become a certain holy body , that sanctifies those who use them with a sound purpose . st. cyprian says , ( epist. . ) christ calls the bread that was compounded of many grains ioyned together , his body , to shew the union of our people which he bore upon himself ; and calls the wine which is pressed out of many grapes and berries , his blood : he signifies our flock which is joyned together in the mixture of an united multitude . and writing against those who only put water in the chalice , ( epist. . ) he says , since christ said , i am the true vine , the blood of christ is not only water but wine , neither can we see his blood by which we are redeemed and quickened in the chalice when wine is not in it , by which the blood of christ is shewed . and that whole epistle is all to the same purpose . epiphanius ( in anchorat ) says , christ in the supper rose and took these things , and having given thanks , said , this is my , &c. now we see it is not equal to it , nor like it , neither to his incarnate likeness , nor his invisible deity , nor the lineaments of his members , for it is round , and without feeling as to its vertue . and this he says , to shew how man may be said to be made after the image of god , though he be not like him . gregory nyssen , ( in orat. de bap. christ. ) shewing how common things may be sanctified , as water in baptism , the stones of an altar and church dedicated to god ; he adds , so also bread in the beginning is common , but after the mystery has consecrated it , is said to be , and is the body of christ ; so the mystical oyl , so the wine before the blessing , are things of little value , but after the sanctification of the spirit , both of them work excellently . he also adds , that the priest by his blessing is separated and sanctified ; from which it appears , he no more believed the change of the substance of the bread and wine , than of the consecrated oil , the altar , or the priest. ambrose ( lib. de bened. patriarc . cap. . ) speaking of bread , which was asher's blessing , says , this bread christ gave his apostles , that they might divide it to the people that believed , and gives it to us to day , which the priest consecrates in his words , this bread is made the food of the saints . st. chrysostome ( homil. . in epist. ad cor. ) on these words , the bread which we brake , is it not the communion of the body of christ ? says , what is the bread ? the body of christ. what are they made who take it ? the body of christ. from whence it appears , he thought the bread was so the body of christ , as the worthy receivers are ; which is not by the change of their substance , but by the sanctification of their natures . st. ierom ( epist. ad hedib . ) says , let us hear the bread which christ brake and gave his disciples , to be the body of our lord. and he says , ( comment . s. mat. c. . ) after the typical pascha was fulfilled , christ took bread that comforts the heart of man , and went to the true sacrament of the pascha , that as melchisedeck in the figure had done offering bread and wine , so he might also represent the truth of his body and blood. where he very plainly calls the elements bread and wine , and a representation of christ's body and blood. st. austin ( as he is cited by fulgentius de baptismo and divers others ) in his exhortation to these that were newly baptized , speaking of this sacrament , says , that which you see is the bread , and the cup which your eyes witness : but that which your faith must be instructed in , is , that the bread is the body of christ , and the cup is his blood. and then he proposes the objection , how that could be ? and answers it thus ; these things are therefore called sacraments , because one thing is seen , and another is understood : what you see has a bodily appearance , but what you understand has a spiritual fruit ; and if you will understand the body of christ , hear what the apostle says to the faithful , ye are the body of christ and his members : if therefore you be the body and members of christ , your mystery is placed on the table of the lord , and you receive the mystery of the lord. and at large prosecutes this , to shew how the faithful are the body of christ , as the bread is made up of many grains ; from whence it appears , that he believed , that the conscrated elements were still bread and wine . and speaking of st. paul's breaking bread at troas , he says , ( epist. . ) being to break bread that night , as it is broken in the sacrament of the body of christ. he also says , ( serm. . de divers . ) the eucharist is our daily bread ; but let us so receive it , that not only our belly but our mind be refreshed by it . besides , in a great many places st. austin calls the eucharist , the sacrament of bread and wine . and speaking of things , made use of to signify somewhat else , he adds for one , ( lib. . de trinit . c. . ) the bread that is made for this , is consumed in our receiving the sacrament . he also says , ( lib. . de civ . dei. ) to eat bread is in the new testament , the sacrifice of christians . he likewise says , ( lib. cont. donat. c. . ) both iudas and peter received a part of the same bread out of the same hand of our lord. and thus from twelve witnesses that are beyond all exception , it does appear , that the fathers believed the elements to be still bread and wine after the consecration . we have not brought any proofs from the fathers that are less known or read , for then we must have swelled up this paper beyond what we intend it . one thing is so considerable , that we cannot forbear to desire it be taken notice of , and that is , that we see those great fathers and doctors of the church call the consecrated elements , without any mincing of the matter , bread & wine ; but when they call it the body and blood of christ , they often use some mollifying and less hardy expression . so st. austin says , ( serm. . de verb. dom. ) almost all call the sacrament his body . and again says , ( lib. . de trinit . c. . ) we call that only the body and blood of christ , which being taken of the fruits of the earth , and consecrated by the mystical prayer , we rightly receive for our spiritual health in the commemoration of the passion of our lord for us . and he says , ( epist. . ad bonifac. ) after some sort the sacrament of the body of christ is his body , and the sacrament of his blood is the blood of christ. and also says , ( serm. . in psal. . ) he carried himself in his own hands in some sort , when he said , this is my body . st. chrysostom says , ( epist. ad caesar. ) the bread is thought worthy to be called the body of our lord. and on these words , the flesh lusteth against the spirit , among the improper acceptions of flesh , says , ( comm. in epist. ad galat. c. . ) the scriptures use to call the mysteries by the name of flesh , and sometimes the whole church , saying , she is the body of christ. tertullian says , ( lib. . cont . marc. c. . ) christ calls the bread his body , and a little after , he names the bread his body . isidore hispal . says , ( orig. lib. . c. . ) we call this after his command the body and blood of christ , which being made of the fruits of the earth , is sanctified and made a sacrament . theodoret says , ( dialog . . ) in the giving of the mysteries , christ called the bread his body , and the mixed cup his blood. and says , ( dialog . . ) he who called his natural body corn and bread , and also calls himself a vine , likewise honoured these visible symbols with the names of his body and blood. but we now go to bring our proofs for the next branch of our first proposition ; in which we assert , that the fathers believed that the very substance of the bread and wine did remain after the consecration . by which all the proofs brought in the former branch will receive a further evidence ; since by these it will appear the fathers believed the substance of the elements remained ; and thence we may well conclude , that wherever we find mention made of bread and wine after consecration , they mean of the substance , and not of the accidents of bread and wine . for proof of this , we shall only bring the testimonies of four fathers , that lived almost within one age , and were the greatest men of the age. their authority is as generally received , as their testimonies are formal and decisive : and these are pope gelasius , st. chrysostom , ephrem patriarch of antioch , and theodoret , whom we shall find delivering to us the doctrine of the church in their age , with great consideration upon a very weighty occasion : so that it shall appear that this was for that age the doctrine generally received both in the churches of rome and constantinople , antioch , and asia the less . we shall begin with gelasius , who , though he lived later than some of the others , yet , because of the eminence of his see , and the authority those we deal with must needs acknowledge was in him , ought to be set first : he says , ( in lib. de duab . nat . christ. ) the sacraments of the body and blood of christ are a divine thing ; for which reason we become , by them , partakers of the divine nature ; and yet the substance or nature of bread and wine does not cease to be ; and the image and likeness of the body and blood of christ are indeed celebrated in the action of the mysteries : therefore it appears evidently enough , that we ought to think that of christ our lord , which we profess and celebrate , and receive in his image , that as they ( to wit , the elements ) pass into that divine substance , the holy ghost working it , their nature remaining still in its own property . so that principal mystery , whose efficiency and virtue these ( to wit , the sacraments ) represent to us , remains one entire and true christ ; those things of which he is compounded ( to wit , his two natures ) remaining in their properties . these words seem so express and decisive , that one would think the bare reading them , without any further reflections , should be of force enough . but before we offer any considerations upon them , we shall set down other passages of the other fathers , and upon them altogether make such remarks as , we hope , may satisfy any that will hear reason . st. chrysostom treating of the two natures of christ against the apollinarists , ( epist. ad caesar. monach . ) who did so confound them , as to consubstantiate them , he makes use of the doctrine of the sacrament to illustrate that mystery by , in these words ; as before the bread is sanctified , we call it bread ; but when the divine grace has sanctified it by the mean of the priest , it is freed from the name of bread , and is thought worthy of the name of the lord's body , though the nature of bread remains in it : and yet it is not said there are two bodies , but one body of the son ; so the divine nature being joyned to the body , both these make one son , and one person . next this patriarch of constantinople , let us hear ephrem the patriarch of antioch give his testimony , as it is preserved by photius , ( cod. . ) who says thus : in like manner ( having before treated of the two natures united in christ ) the body of christ , which is received by the faithful , does not depart from its sensible substance , and yet remains inseparated from the intellectual grace : so baptism becoming wholly spiritual , and one , it preserves its own sensible substance , and does not lose that which it was before . to these we shall add , what theodoret ( dialog . . ) on the same occasion says against those , who from that place , the word was made flesh , believed , that in the incarnation the divinity of the word was changed into the humanity of the flesh. he brings in his heretick arguing about some mystical expressions of the old testament , that related to christ : at length he comes to shew , how christ called himself bread and corn ; so also in the delivering the mysteries , christ called the bread his body , and the mixed cup his blood ; and our saviour changed the names , calling his body by the name of the symbol , and the symbol by the name of his body . and when the heretick asks the reason why the names were so changed , the orthodox answers , that it was manifest to such as were initiated in divine things ; for he would have those who partake of the mysteries , not look to the nature of those things that were seen , but by the change of the names , to believe that change that was made through grace ; for he who called his natural body corn and bread , does likewise honour the visible symbols with the name of his body and blood ; not changing the nature , but adding grace to nature : and so goes on to ask his heretick , whether he thought the holy bread was the symbol and type of his divinity , or of his body and blood ? and the other acknowledging they were the symbols of his body and blood : he concludes , that christ had a true body . the second dialogue is against the eutychians ; who believed , that after christ's assumption , his body was swallowed up by his divinity : and there the eutychian brings an argument to prove that change from the sacrament ; it being granted , that the gifts before the priest's prayer were bread and wine . he asks how it was to be called after the sanctification ? the orthodox answers , the body and blood of christ ; and that he believed he received the body and blood of christ. from thence the heretick , as having got a great advantage , argues ; that as the symbols of the body and blood of our lord were one thing before the priestly invocation , and after that were changed , and are different from what they were : so the body of our lord , after the assumption , was changed into the divine substance . but the orthodox replies , that he was catched in the net he laid for others ; for the mystical symbols , after the sanctification , do not depart from their own nature ; for they continue in their former substance , figure and form , and are both visible and palpable , as they were before ; but they are understood to be that which they are made , and are believed and venerated , as being those things which they are believed to be . and from thence he bids the heretick compare the image with the original , for the type must be like the truth , and shews that christ's body retains its former form and figure , and the substance of his body , though it be now made immortal and incorruptible . thus he . and having now set down very faithfully the words of these fathers , we desire it may be considered , that all these words are used to the same effect , to prove the reality of christ's body , and the distinction of the two natures , the divine and the human , in him . for , though st. chrysostom lived before eutyches his days , yet in this point the eutychians and the apollinarists , against whom he writes , held opinions so like others , that we may well say , all these words of the fathers we have set down are to the same purpose . now , first it is evident , that if transubstantiation had been then believed , there needed no other argument to prove against the eutychians that christ had still a real body , but to have declared that his body was corporally present in the eucharist ; which they must have done , had they believed it , and not spoken so as they did ; since that alone well proved , had put an end to the whole controversy . further , they could never have argued from the visions and apparitions of christ , to prove he had still a real body ; for if it was possible the body of christ could appear under the accidents of bread and wine , it was as possible the divinity should appear under the accidents of an humane body . thirdly , they could never have argued against the eutychians , as they did , from the absurdity that followed upon such a substantial mutation of the humane nature of christ into his divinity , if they had believed this substantial conversion of the elements into christ's body , which is liable unto far greater absurdities . and we can as little doubt , but the eutychians had turned back their arguments on themselves , with these answers , if that doctrine had been then received . it is true , it would seem from the last passage of theodoret , that the eutychians did believe some such change ; but that could not be , for they denied the being of the body of christ , and so could not think any thing was changed into that which they believed was not . therefore we are to suppose him arguing from some commonly received expressions , which the father explains . in fine , the design of those fathers being to prove , that the two natures might be united without the change of either of their substances in the person of christ , it had been inexcusable folly in them , to have argued from the sacramental mysteries being united to the body and blood of christ , if they had not believed they retained their former substance ; for had they believed transubstantiation , what a goodly argument had it been , to have said , because after the consecration the accidents of bread and wine remain , therefore the substance of the humanity remained still , tho united to the divine nature in christ ? did ever man in his wits argue in this fashion ? certainly , these four bishops , whereof three were patriarchs , and one of these a pope , deserved to have been hissed out of the world , as persons that understood not what it was to draw a consequence , if they had argued so as they did , and believed transubstantiation . but if you allow them to believe ( as certainly they did ) that in the sacrament the real substances of bread and wine remained , tho after the sanctification , by the operation of the holy ghost , they were the body and blood of christ , and were to be called so ; then this is a most excellent illustration of the mystery of the incarnation , in which the human nature retains its proper and true substance , tho after the union with the divinity , christ be called god , even as he was man , by virtue of his union with the eternal word . and this shews how unreasonable it is to pretend , that because substance and nature are sometimes used even for accidental qualities , they should be therefore understood so in the cited places ; for if you take them in that sense , you destroy the force of the argument , which from being a very strong one , will by this means become a most ridiculous sophisin . yet we are indeed beholden to those that have taken pains to shew , that substance and nature stand often for accidental qualities ; for tho that cannot be applied to the former places , yet it helps us with an excellent answer to many of those passages with which they triumph not a little . having so far considered these four fathers , we shall only add to them the definition of the seventh general council at constantinople , ann. . christ appointed us to offer the image of his body , to wit , the substance of the bread. the council is indeed of no authority with these we deal with : but we do not bring it as a decree of a council , but as a testimony , that so great a number of bishops did in the eighth century believe , that the substance of the bread did remain in the eucharist , and that it was only the image of christ's body : and if in this definition they spake not more consonantly to the doctrine of the former ages , than their enemies at nice did , let what has been set down , and shall be yet adduced , declare . and now we advance to the third branch of our first assertion , that the fathers believed that the consecrated elements did nourish our bodies ; and the proofs of this will also give a further evidence to our former position ; that the substance of the elements does remain : and it is a demonstration that these fathers , who thought the sacrament nourished our bodies , could not believe a transubstantiation of the bread and wine into the body and blood of christ. for the proof of this branch we desire the following testimonies be considered . first , iustin martyr , as was already cited , not only calls the eucharist our nourishment , but formally calls it that food by which our flesh and blood through its transmutation into them are nourished . secondly , irenaeus ( lib. . adv . heret . c. . ) proving the resurrection of the body by this argument , that our bodies are fed by the body and blood of christ , and that therefore they shall rise again ; he hath these words , he confirmed that cup , which is a creature , to be his blood , by which he encreases our blood ; and the bread , which is a creature , to be his body , by which he encreases our body : and when the mixed cup and the bread , receive the word of god , it becomes the eucharist of the body and blood of christ , by which the substance of our flesh is encreased and subsists . how then do they deny the flesh to be capable of the gift of god , which is eternal life , that is nourished by the body and blood of christ , and is made his member . we hope it will be observed , that as these words are express and formal ; so the design on which he uses them will admit of none of those distinctions they commonly rely on . tertullian says , ( lib. de resur . c. . ) the flesh is fed with the body and blood of christ. st. austin ( serm. . de divers . ) after he had called the eucharist our daily bread , he exhorts us so to receive it , that not only our bellies , but our minds might be refreshed by it . isidore of sevil says , the substance of the visible bread nourishes the outward man ; or , as bertram cites his words , all that we receive externally in the sacrament of the body and blood of christ , is proper to refresh the body . next , let us see what the th council of toledo says in anno . condemning those that did not offer in the eucharist entire loaves , but only round crusts ; they did appoint one entire loaf carefully prepared to be set on the altar , that it might be sanctified by the priestly benediction , and order , that what remained after communion , should be either put in some bag , or , if it was needful , to eat it up , that it might not oppress the belly of him that took it with the burden of an heavy surcharge ; and that it might not go to the digestion , but that it might feed his soul with spiritual nourishment . from which words , one of two consequences will necessarily follow ; either that the consecrated elements do really nourish the body , which we intend to prove from them ; or that the body of christ is not in the elements , but as they are sacramentally used , which we acknowledg many of the fathers believed . but the last words we cited of the spiritual nourishment , shew those fathers did not think so ; and if they did , we suppose those we deal with will see , that to believe christ's body is only in the elements when used , will clearly leave the charge of idolatry on that church in their processions , and other adorations of the host. but none is so express as origen , ( comment . in mat. c. . ) who on these words , 't is not that which enters within a man which defiles a man , says , if every thing that enters by the mouth , goes into the belly , and is cast into the draught ; then the food that is sanctified by the word of god , and by prayer , goes also to the belly , as to what is material in it , and from thence to the draught ; but by the prayer that was made over it , it is useful in proportion to our faith , and is the mean that the understanding is clear-sighted and attentive to that which is profitable ; and it is not the matter of bread , but the word pronounced over it , which profits him that does not eat in a way unworthy of our lord. this doctrine of the sacraments being so digested that some parts of it turned to excrement , was likewise taught by divers latin writers in the th age , as rabanus maurus arch-bishop of mentz , and heribald bishop of auxerre . divers of the greek writers did also hold it , whom for a reproach their adversaries called stercoranists . it is true , other greek fathers were not of origen's opinion , but believed that the eucharist did entirely turn into the substance of our bodies . so cyril of ierusalem says , ( mystic . catech. . ) that the bread of the eucharist does not go into the belly , nor is cast into the draught , but is distributed thorough the whole substance of the communicant , for the good of body and soul. the homily of the eucharist , in a dedication that is in st. chrysostom's works , ( tom. . ) says , do not think that this is bread , and that this is wine ; for they pass not to the draught , as other victuals do : and comparing it to wax put to the fire , of which no ashes remain ; he adds , so think that the m●teries are consumed with the substance of our bodies . iohn damascene is of the same mind , who says , ( lib. . de orthod . fide c. . ) that the body and the blood of christ passes into the consistence of our souls and bodies , without being consumed , corrupted , or passing into the draught , god forbid , but passing into our substance for our conservation . thus it will appear , that tho those last-cited fathers did not believe as origen did , that any part of the eucharist went to the draught ; yet they thought it was turned into the substance of our bodies , from which we may well conclude , they thought the substance of bread and wine remained in the eucharist after the consecration , and that it nourished our bodies . and thus we hope we have sufficiently proved our first proposition in all its three branches . so leaving it , we go on to the second proposition , which is ; that the fathers call the consecrated elements the figures , the signs , the symbols , the types , and antitypes , the commemoration , representation , the mysteries , and the sacraments of the body and blood of christ. tertullian proving against marcion , ( lib. cont . marc. c. . ) that christ had a real body , he brings some figures that were fulfilled in christ , and says , he made the bread which he took and gave his disciples to be his body , saying , this is my body , that is , the figure of my body ; but it had not been a figure of his body had it not been true , for an empty thing , such as a phantasm , cannot have a figure . now had tertullian , and the church in his time , believed transubstantiation , it had been much more pertinent for him to have argued , here is corporally present christ's body , therefore he had a true body , than to say , here is a figure of his body , therefore he had a true body ; such an escape as this is not incident to a man of common sense , if he had believed transubstantiation . and the same father , in two other places before cited , says , christ gave the figure of his body to the bread , and that he represented his own body by the bread. st. austin says , ( com. in psal. ) he commended and gave to his disciples , the figure of his body and blood. the same expressions are also in bede , alcuine , and druthmar , that lived in the eighth and ninth centuries . but what st. austin says elsewhere ( lib. . de doct. chr. c. . ) is very full in this matter , where , treating of the rules by which we are to judg what expressions in scripture are figurative , and what not , he gives this for one rule : if any place seem to command a crime or horrid action , it is figurative ; and to instance it , cites these words , except ye eat the flesh and drink the blood of the son of man , you have no life in you ; which ( says he ) seems to command some crime , or horrid action , therefore it is a figure , commanding us to communicate in the passion of our lord , and sweetly and profitably to lay up in our memory , that his flesh was crucified and wounded for us . which words are so express and full , that whatever those we deal with may think of them , we are sure we cannot devise how any one could have delivered our doctrine more formally . parallel to these are origen's words , ( homil. . in lev. ) who calls the understanding the words of our saviour , of eating his flesh and drinking his blood according to the letter , a letter that kills . the same st. austin calls the eucharist , a sign of christ's body , in his book against adimantus , ( lib. cont . adimant . manich . c. . ) who studied to prove that the author of the old and new testament was not the same god ; and among other arguments , he uses this , that blood in the old testament is called the life or soul , contrary to the new testament : to which st. austin answers , that it was so called , not that it was truly the soul or life , but the sign of it ; and to shew , that the sign does sometimes bear the name of that whereof it is a sign , he says , our lord did not doubt to say , this is my body , when he was giving the sign of his body . where , if he had not believed the eucharist was substantially different from his body , it had been the most impertinent illustration that ever was , and had proved just against him , that the sign must be one and the same with that which is signified by it . for the sacrament being called the type , the antitype , the symbol and mystery of christ's body and blood : the ancient liturgies , and greek fathers use these phrases so frequently , that since it is not so much as denied , we judg we need not laboriously prove it . therefore we pass over this , believing it will be granted ; for if it be denied , we undertake to prove them to have been used not only on some occasions , but to have been the constant style of the church . now that types , antitypes , symbols , and mysteries , are distinct from that which they shadow forth , and mystically hold out , we believe can be as little disputed . in this sense all the figures of the law are called types of christ by the fathers , and both the baptismal water and the chrism are called symbols and mysteries . and tho there was not that occasion for the fathers to discourse on baptism so oft , which every body received but once , and was administred ordinarily but on a few days of the year , as they had to speak of the eucharist , which was daily consecrated ; so that it cannot be imagined , there should be near such a number of places about the one as about the other ; yet we fear not to undertake to prove , there be many places among the ancients , that do as fully express a change of the baptismal water , as of the eucharistical elements . from whence it may appear , that their great zeal to prepare persons to a due value of these holy actions , and that they might not look on them as a vulgar ablution , or an ordinary repast , carried them to many large and high expressions , which cannot bear a literal meaning . and since they with whom we deal are fain to fly to metaphors and allegories for clearing of what the fathers say of baptism , it is a most unreasonable thing to complain of us for using such expositions of what they say about the eucharist . but that we may not leave this without some proof , we shall set down the words of facundus , ( desens . conc. chalced. lib. . ) who says , the sacrament of adoption , that is baptism , may be called adoption , as the sacrament of his body and blood , which is in the consecrated bread and cup , is called his body and blood ; not that the bread is properly his body , or the cup properly his blood , but because they contain in them the mystery of his body and blood ; and hence it was that our lord called the bread that was blessed , and the cup which he gave his disciples , his body and blood. therefore as the believers in christ , when they receive the sacrament of his body and blood , are rightly said to have received his body and blood ; so christ , when he received the sacrament of the adoption of sons , may be rightly said to have received the adoption of sons . and we leave every one to gather from these words , if the cited father could believe transubstantiation , and if he did not think that baptism was as truly the adoption of the sons of god , as the eucharist was his body and blood , which these of rome acknowledg is only to be meant in a moral sense . that the fathers called this sacrament the memorial and representation of the death of christ , and of his body that was broken , and his blood that was shed , we suppose will be as little denied , for no man that ever looked into any of their treatises of the eucharist , can doubt of it . st. austin says , ( epist. . ad bonifac. ) that sacraments must have some similitude of these things of which they be the sacraments , otherwise they could not be sacraments . so he says , the sacrament of the body of christ is after some manner his blood. so the sacrament of faith ( that is baptism ) is faith. but more expresly , speaking of the eucharist as a sacrifice of praise , he says , ( lib. . cont . faust. manich. c. . ) the flesh and blood of this sacrifice was promised before the coming of christ by the sacrifices of the types of it : in the passion of christ , it was done in the truth it self : and after his ascent , is celebrated by the sacrament of the remembrance of it . but he explains this more fully on the th psalm , where he having read , ver . . worship his footstool ; and seeking for its true meaning , expounds it of christ's body , who was flesh of this earth , and gives his flesh to be eaten by us for our salvation , which , since none eats , except he have first adored it ; he makes this the footstool which we worship without any sin , and do sin if we do not worship it . so far the church of rome triumphs with this place . but let us see what follows , where we shall find that which will certainly abate their joy ; he goes on and tells us , not to dwell on the flesh , lest we be not quickened by the spirit ; and shews how they that heard our lord's words were scandalized at them as hard words ; for they understood them , says he , foolishly , and carnally , and thought he was to have cut off some parcels of his body to be given them : but they were hard , not our lord 's saying ; for had they been meek , and not hard , they should have said within themselves , he says not this without a cause , but because there is some sacrament hid there ; for had they come to him with his disciples , and asked him , he had instructed them : for he said it is the spirit that quickens , the flesh profiteth nothing : the words that i have spoken to you are spirit and life . and adds , understand spiritually that which i have said ; for it is not this body which you see , that you are not to eat ; or to drink this blood which they are to shed , who shall crucify me : but i have recommended a sacrament to you , which being spiritually understood , shall quicken you ; and tho it be necessary that it be celebrated visibly , yet it must be understood invisibly . from which it is as plain as can be , that st. austin believed that in the eucharist we do not eat the natural flesh , and drink the natural blood of christ ; but that we do it only in a sacrament , and spiritually , and invisibly . but the force of all this will appear yet clearer , if we consider that they speak of the sacrament as a memorial that exhibited christ to us in his absence : for tho it naturally follows , that whatsoever is commemorated must needs be absent ; yet this will be yet more evident , if we find the fathers made such reflections on it . so gaudentius says , ( tract . in exod. ) this is the hereditary gift of his new testament , which that night he was betrayed to be crucified , he left as the pledg of his presence : this is the provision for our iourney with which we are fed in this way of our life , and nourished till we go to him out of this world ; for he would have his benefits remain with us : he would have our souls to be always sanctified by his precious blood , and by the image of his own passion . primasius ( comm. in epist. ad cor. ) compares the sacrament to a pledg , which one , when he is dying , leaves to any whom he loved . many other places may be brought , to shew how the fathers speak of memorials and representations , as opposite to the truth and presence of that which is represented . and thus we doubt not but we have brought proofs , which , in the judgment of all that are unprejudiced , must demonstrate the truth of this our second proposition , which we leave , and go on to the third , which was ; that by the doctrine of the fathers , the unworthy receivers did not receive christ's body and blood in the sacrament . for this our first proof is taken from origen , ( com. in mat. c. . ) who after he had spoken of the sacraments being eaten , and passing to the belly , adds , these things we have said of the typical and symbolical body ; but many things may be said of the word that was made flesh , and the true food , whom whosoever eats , he shall live for ever ; whom no wicked person can eat : for if it were possible that any who continues wicked , should eat the word that was made flesh , since he is the word , and the living bread , it had never been written , whoso eats this bread , shall live for ever . where he makes a manifest difference between the typical and symbolical body received in the sacrament , and the incarnate word , of which no wicked person can partake . and he also says , ( hom. . in mat. ) they that are good , eat the living bread that came down from heaven ; and the wicked eat dead bread , which is death . zeno , bishop of verona , that , as is believed , lived near origen's time , ( tom. . spir. dach . ) says , ( as he is cited by ratherius bishop of verona ) there is cause to fear , that he in whom the devil dwells , does not eat the flesh of our lord , nor drink his blood , tho he seems to communicate with the faithful ; since our lord hath said , he that eats my flesh , and drinks my blood , dwells in me , and i in him . st. ierom on the th of isaiah , says , they that are not holy in body and spirit , do neither eat the flesh of iesus , nor drink his blood ; of which he said , he that eats my flesh , and drinks my blood , hath eternal life . and on the th chapter of hosea , he says , they eat not his flesh , whose flesh is the food of them that believe . to the same purpose he writes in his comments on the d of ieremy , and on the th of zechariah . st. austin says , ( tract . . in ioan. ) he that does not abide in christ , and in whom christ does not abide , certainly does not spiritually eat his flesh , nor drink his blood , tho he may visibly and carnally break in his teeth the sacrament of the body and blood of christ : but he rather eats and drinks the sacrament of so great a matter to his iudgment . and speaking of those , who by their uncleanness become the members of an harlot ; he says , ( lib. . de civ . dei c. . ) neither are they to be said to eat the body of christ , because they are not his members . and besides , he adds , he that says , whoso eats my flesh , and drinks my blood , abides in me , and i in him ; shews what it is , not only in a sacrament , but truly to eat the body of christ , and drink his blood. to this we shall add , that so oft cited passage ; ( tract . . in ioan. ) those did eat the bread that was the lord ; the other ( he means iudas ) the bread of the lord against the lord. by which he clearly insinuates , he did believe the unworthy receivers did not receive the lord with the bread : and that this hath been the constant belief of the greek church to this day , shall be proved , if it be thought necessary , for clearing this matter . and thus far we have studied to make good what we undertook to prove : but if we had enlarged on every particular , we must have said a great deal more ; to shew from many undeniable evidences , that the fathers were strangers to this new mystery . it is clear from their writings , that they thought christ was only spiritually present ; that we did eat his flesh , and drink his blood only by faith , and not by our bodily senses ; and that the words of eating his flesh , and drinking his blood , were to be understood spiritually . it is no less clear , that they considered christ present only as he was on the cross , and not as he is now in the glory of the father : and from hence it was , that they came to order their eucharistical forms so , as that the eucharist might represent the whole history of christ from his incarnation to his assumption . besides , they always speak of christ as absent from us , according to his flesh and human nature , and only present in his divinity and by his spirit ; which they could not have said , if they had thought him every day present on their altars in his flesh and human nature ; for then he were more on earth than he is in heaven , since in heaven he is circumscribed within one place . but according to this doctrine he must be always in above a million of places upon earth ; so that it were very strange to say he were absent , if they believed him thus present . but to give yet further evidences of the fathers not believing this doctrine , let us but reflect a little on the consequences that necessarily follow it : which be , . that a body may be , by the divine power , in more places at once . . that a body may be in a place without extension or quantity ; so a body of such dimensions , as our blessed lord's body , can be in so small a room as a thin wafer ; and not only so , but that the whole body should be entirely in every crumb and point of that wafer . . that a body can be made or produced in a place that had a real being before , and yet is not brought thither , but produced there . . that the accidents of any substance , such as colour , smell , taste , and figure , can remain without any body or substance in which they subsist . . that our senses may deceive us in their clearest and most evident representations . . great doubts there are what becomes of the body of christ after it is received ; or , if it should come to be corrupted , or to be snatched by a mouse , or eat by any vermine . all these are the natural and necessary effects of this doctrine , and are not only to be perceived by a contemplative and searching understanding , but are such as stare every body full in the face : and hence it is , that since this was submitted to in the western church , the whole doctrine of philosophy , has been altered , and new maxims and definitions were found out , to accustom the youth while raw and easy to any impression , to receive these as principles , by which their minds being full of those first prejudices , might find no difficulty to believe this . now it is certain , had the fathers believed this , they who took a great deal of pains to resolve all the other mysteries of our faith , and were so far from being short or defective in it , that they rather over-do it ; and that not only about the mysteries of the trinity and incarnation , but about original sin , the derivation of our souls , the operation of the grace of god in our hearts , and the resurrection of our bodies , should yet have been so constantly silent in those mysteries , tho they ought rather to have been cleared than the other . because in the other heads the difficulties were more speculative and abstracted , and so scruples were only incident to men of more curious and diligent enquiries . but here it is otherwise , where the matter being an object of the senses , every man's senses must have raised in him all or most of those scruples : and yet the fathers neither in their philosophical treatises , nor in their theological writings , ever attempt the unridling those difficulties . but all this is only a negative , and yet we do appeal to any one that has diligently read the fathers , st. austin in particular ; if he can perswade himself , that when all other mysteries , and the consequences from them , were explained with so great care and even curiosity , these only were things of so easy a digestion , that about them there should have been no scruple at all made . but it is yet clearer , when we find the fathers not only silent , but upon other occasions delivering maxims and principles so directly contrary to these consequences , without any reserved exceptions or provisions for the strange mysteries of transubstantiation : they tell us plainly , creatures are limited to one place , and so argued against the heathens believing their inferiour deities were in the several statues consecrated to them : from this they prove the divinity of the holy ghost , that he did work in many places at once , and so could not be a creature , which can only be in one place . nay , they do positively teach us , that christ can be no more on earth , since his body is in heaven , and is but in one place . they also do tell us , that that which hath no bounds nor figure , and cannot be touched nor seen , cannot be a body , and that all bodies are extended in some place , and that bodies cannot exist after the manner of spirits . they also tell us in all their reasonings against the eternity of matter , that nothing could be produced that had a being before it was produced . they also teach us very formally , that none of the qualities of a body could subsist , except the body it self did also subsist . and for the testimonies of our senses , they appeal to them on all occasions as infallible ; and tell us , that it tended to reverse the whole state of our life , the order of nature , and to blind the providence of god ; to say , he has given the knowledg and enjoyment of all his works to liars and deceivers , if our senses be false . then we must doubt of our faith , if the testimony of the eyes , hands and ears were of a nature capable to be deceived . and in their contests with the marcionites and others about the truth of christ's body , they appeal always to the testimony of the senses as infallible : nay , even treating of the sacrament , they say , it was bread as their eyes witnessed , and truly wine , that christ did consecrate for the memory of his blood ; telling , that in this very particular we ought not to doubt the testimony of our senses . but to make this whole matter yet plainer ; it is certain , that had the church in the first ages believed this doctrine , the heathens and jews who charged them with every thing they could possibly invent , had not passed over this , against which all the powers of reason , and the authorities of sense , do rise up . they charge them for believing a god that was born , a god of flesh , that was crucified and buried . they laughed at their belief of a iudgment to come , of endless flames , of an heavenly paradise , and the resurrection of the flesh. the first apologists for christianity , iustin , tertullian , origen , arnobius , and cyril of alexandria , give us a full account of those blasphemies against our most holy faith ; and the last hath given us what iulian objected in his own words , who having apostatized from the faith in which he was initiated , and was a reader in the church , must have been well acquainted with , and instructed in their doctrine and sacraments . he then who laughed at every thing , and in particular at the ablution and sanctification in baptism , as conceiving it a thing impossible that water should cleanse and wash a soul : yet neither he , nor celsus , nor any other ever charged on the christians any absurdities from their belief of transubstantiation . this is , it is true , a negative argument ; yet when we consider the malice of those ingenious enemies of our faith , and their care to expose all the doctrines and customs of christians , and yet find them in no place charge the strange consequences of this doctrine on them ; we must from thence conclude , there was no such doctrine then received : for if it had been , they , at least iulian , must have known it ; and if they knew it , can we think they should not have made great noise about it ? we know some think their charging the christians with the eating of human flesh , and thyestian suppers , related to the sacrament : but that cannot be , for when the fathers answer that charge , they tell them to their teeth it was a plain lie : and do not offer to explain it with any relation to the eucharist , which they must have done if they had known it was founded on their doctrine of receiving christ's body and blood in the sacrament . but the truth is , those horrid calumnies were charged on the christians from the execrable and abominable practices of the gnosticks , who called themselves christians ; and the enemies of the faith , either believing these were the practices of all christians , or being desirous to have others think so , did accuse the whole body of christians as guilty of these abominations . so that it appears , those calumnies were not at all taken up from the eucharist , and there being nothing else that is so much as said to have any relation to the eucharist , charged on the christians , we may well conclude from hence , that this doctrine was not received then in the church . but another negative argument is , that we find heresies rising up in all ages against all the other mysteries of our faith , and some downright denying them , others explaining them very strangely ; and it is indeed very natural to an unmortified and corrupt mind , to reject all divine revelation , more particularly that which either choaks his common notions , or the deductions of appearing reasonings ; but most of all , all men are apt to be startled , when they are told , they must believe against the clearest evidences of sense ; for men were never so meek and tame , as easily to yeild to such things . how comes it then that for the first seven ages there were no heresies nor hereticks about this ? we are ready to prove , that from the eighth and ninth centuries , in which this doctrine began to appear , there has been in every age great opposition made to all the advances for setting it up , and yet these were but dark and unlearned ages , in which implicit obedience , and a blind subjection to what was generally proposed , was much in credit . in those ages , the civil powers being ready to serve the rage of church-men against any who should oppose it , it was not safe for any to appear against it . and yet it cannot be denied , but from the days of the second council of nice , which made a great step towards transubstantiation , till the fourth council of lateran , there was great opposition made to it by the most eminent persons in the latin church ; and how great a part of christendom has departed from the obedience of the church of rome in every age since that time , and upon that account , is well enough known . now , is it to be imagined , that there should have been such an opposition to it these nine hundred years last past , and yet that it should have been received the former eight hundred years with no opposition , and that it should not have cost the church the trouble of one general council to decree it , or of one treatise of a father to establish it , and answer those objections that naturally arise from our reasons and senses against it ? but in the end there are many things which have risen out of this doctrine as its natural consequences , which had it been sooner taught and received , must have been apprehended sooner , and those are so many clear presumptions of the novelty of this doctrine ; the elevation , adoration , processions , the doctrine of concomitants , with a vast superfaetation of rites and rubricks about this sacrament are lately sprung up . the age of them is well known , and they have risen in the latin church out of this doctrine , which had it been sooner received , we may reasonably enough think must have been likewise ancienter . now for all these things , as the primitive church knew them not , so on the other hand , the great simplicity of their forms , as we find them in iustin martyr , and cyril of ierusalem , in the apostolical constitutions , and the pretended denis the areopagite , are far from that pomp which the latter ages that believed this doctrine brought in ; the sacraments being given in both kinds , being put in the hands of the faithful , being given to the children for many ages , being sent by boys or common persons to such as were dying , the eating up what remained , ( which in some places were burnt , in other places were consumed by children , or by the clergy ; ) their making cataplasms of it ; their mixing the consecrated chalice with ink to sign the excommunication of hereticks . these , with a great many more , are such convictions to one , that has carefully compared the ancient forms with the rubricks and rites of the church of rome , since this doctrine was set up , that it is as discernable as any thing can be , that the present belief of the church of rome is different from the primitive doctrine . and thus far we have set down the reasons that perswade us that transubstantiation was not the belief of the first seven or eight centuries of the church . if there be any part of what we have asserted , questioned , we have very formal and full proofs ready to shew for them ; though we thought it not fit to enter into the particular proofs of any thing , but what we undertook to make out when we waited on your ladyship . now there remains but one thing to be done , which we also promised ; and that was to clear the words of st. cyril of ierusalem . we acknowledg they were truly cited ; but for clearing of them , we shall neither alledg any thing to the lessening the authority of that father , though we find but a slender character given of him by epiphanius and others : nor shall we say any thing to lessen the authority of these catechisms , though much might be said . but it is plain , st. cyril's design in these catechisms , was only to possess his neophites with a just and deep sense of these holy symbols . but even in his th catechism he tells them , not to consider it as meer bread and wine , for it is the body and blood of christ. by which it appears he thought it was bread still , though not meer bread. and he gives us elsewhere a very formal account in what sense he thought it was christ's body and blood ; which he also insinuates in this th catechism : for in his first mist. catechism , when he exhorts his young christians to avoid all that belonged to the heathenish idolatry , he tells , that on the solemnities of their idols they had flesh and bread , which by the invocation of the devils were defiled , as the bread and wine of the eucharist before the holy invocation of the blessed trinity was bare bread and wine ; but the invocation being made , the bread becomes the body of christ. in like manner , says he , those victuals of the pomp of satan , which of their own nature are common or bare victuals , by the invocation of the devils become prophane . from this illustration , which he borrowed from iustin martyr his second apology , it appears , that he thought the consecration of the eucharist was of a like sort or manner with the profanation of the idolatrous feasts ; so that as the substance of the one remained still unchanged , so also according to him must the substance of the other remain . or , if this will not satisfy them , let us see to what else he compares this change of the elements by the consecration : in his third mist. catechism , treating of the consecrated oil , he says ; as the bread of the eucharist after the invocation of the holy ghost , is no more common bread , but the body of christ ; so this holy ointment is no more bare ointment , nor , as some may say , common ; but it is a gift of christ , and the presence of the holy ghost , and becomes energetical of his divinity . and from these places let it be gathered what can be drawn from st. cyril's testimony . and thus we have performed like wise what we promised , and have given a clear account of st. cyril's meaning from himself ; from whose own words , and from these things which he compares with the sanctification of the elements in the eucharist , it appears he could not think of transubstantiation ; otherwise he had neither compared it with the idol-feasts , nor the consecrated oil , in neither of which there can be supposed any transubstantiation . having thus acquitted our selves of our engagement before your ladyship ; we shall conclude this paper with our most earnest and hearty prayers to the father of lights , that he may of his great mercy redeem his whole christian church from all idolatry ; that he may open the eyes of those , who being carnal , look only at carnal things , and do not rightly consider the excellent beauty of this our most holy faith , which is pure , simple , and spiritual : and that he may confirm all those whom he has called to the knowledge of the truth ; so that neither the pleasures of sin , nor the snares of this world , nor the fear of the cross , tempt them to make shipwrack of the faith and a good conscience . and that god may pour out abundance of his grace on your ladyship , to make you still continue in the love and obedience of the truth , is the earnest prayer of , madam , your ladyship 's most humble servants . edward stillingfleet , gilbert burnet . london , apr. . . a discourse , to shew how unreasonable it is , to ask for express words of scripture in proving all articles of faith : and that a just and good consequence from scripture is sufficient . it will seem a very needless labour to all considering persons , to go about the exposing and baffling so unreasonable and ill-grounded a pretence , that whatever is not read in scripture , is not to be held an article of faith. for in making good this assertion , they must either fasten their proofs on some other ground , or on the words of our article ; which are these , holy scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation : so that whatsoever is not read therein , nor may be proved thereby , is not to be required of any man that it should be believed as an article of faith , or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation . now it is such an affront to every mans eyes and understanding , to infer from these words , that all our articles must be read in scripture , that we are confident every man will cry shame on any that will pretend to fasten on our church any such obligation from them . if these unlucky words , nor may be proved thereby , could be but dash'd out , it were a won cause . but we desire to know what they think can be meant by these words ? or what else can they signify , but that there may be articles of faith , which though they be not read in scripture , yet are proved by it . there be some propositions so equivalent to others , that they are but the same thing said in several words ; and these , though not read in scripture , yet are contained in it , since wheresoever the one is read , the other must necessarily be understood . other propositions there are , which are a necessary result either from two places of scripture , which joined together yield a third , as a necessary issue ; according to that eternal rule of reason and natural logick , that where-ever two things agree in any third , they must also agree among themselves . there be also other propositions that arise out of one single place of scripture by a natural deduction ; as if jesus christ be proved from any place of scripture the creator of the world , or that he is to be worshipped with the same adoration that is due to the great god , then it necessarily follows , that he is the great god ; because he does the works , and receives the worship of the great god. so it is plain , that our church by these words , nor may be proved thereby , has so declared her self in this point , that it is either very great want of consideration , or shameless impudence , to draw any such thing from our articles . but we being informed , that by this little art , as shuffling and bare so ever as it must appear to a just discerner , many have been disordered , and some prevailed on ; we shall so open and expose it , that we hope it shall appear so poor and trifling that every body must be ashamed of it . it hath already shewed it self in france and germany , and the novelty of it took with many , till it came to be canvassed ; and then it was found so weak , that it was universally cried down and hiss'd off the stage . but now that such decried wares will go off no-where , those that deal in them , try if they can vent them in this nation . it might be imagined , that of all persons in the world they should be the furthest from pressing us to reject all articles of faith that are not read in scripture ; since whenever that is received as a maxim , the infallibility of their church , the authority of tradition , the supremacy of rome , the worship of saints , with a great many more must be cast out . it is unreasonable enough for those who have cursed and excommunicated us , because we reject these doctrines , which are not so much as pretended to be read in scripture , to impose on us the reading all our articles in these holy writings . but it is impudent to hear persons speak thus , who have against the express and formal words of scripture , set up the making and worshipping of images ; and these not only of saints , ( though that be bad enough ) but of the blessed trinity , the praying in an unknown tongue , and the taking the chalice from the people . certainly this plea in such mens mouths is not to be reconciled to the most common rules of decency and discretion . what shall we then conclude of men that would impose rules on us , that neither themselves submit to , nor are we obliged to receive by any doctrine or article of our church ? but to give this their plea its full strength and advantage , that upon a fair hearing all may justly conclude its unreasonableness , we shall first set down all can be said for it . in the principles of protestants the scriptures are the rule by which all controversies must be judged . now they having no certain way to direct them in the exposition of them , neither tradition , nor the definition of the church : either they must pretend they are infallible in their deductions , or we have no reason to make any account of them , as being fallible and uncertain , and so they can never secure us from error , nor be a just ground to found our faith of any proposition so proved upon : therefore no proposition thus proved , can be acknowledged an article of faith. this is the breadth and length of their plea , which we shall now examine . and first ; if there be any strength in this plea , it will conclude against our submitting to the express words of scripture as forcibly : since all words , how formal soever , are capable of several expositions . either they are to be understood literally , or figuratively ; either they are to be understood positively , or interrogatively : with a great many other varieties , of which all expressions are capable . so that if the former argument have any force , since every place is capable of several meanings ; except we be infallibly sure which is the true meaning , we ought by the same parity of reason to make no account of the most express and formal words of scripture ; from which it is apparent , that what noise soever these men make of express words of scripture ; yet if they be true to their own argument , they will as little submit to these , as to deductions from scripture : since they have the same reason to question the true meaning of a place , that they have to reject an inference and deduction from it . and this alone may serve to satisfy every body that this is a trick , under which there lies no fair dealing at all . but to answer the argument to all mens satisfaction , we must consider the nature of the soul , which is a reasonable being ; whose chief faculty is to discern the connexion of things , and to draw out such inferences as flow from that connexion . now , though we are liable to great abuses both in our judgments and inferences ; yet if we apply thefe faculties with due care , we must certainly acquiesce in the result of such reasonings ; otherwise this being god's image in us , and the standard by which we are to try things , god has given us a false standard ; which when we have with all possible care managed , yet we are still exposed to fallacies and errors . this must needs reflect on the veracity of that god , that has made us of such a nature , that we can never be reasonably assured of any thing . therefore it must be acknowledged , that when our reasons are well prepared according to those eternal rules of purity and vertue , by which we are fitted to consider of divine matters ; and when we carefully weigh things , we must have some certain means to be assured of what appears to us . and though we be not infallible , so that it is still possible for us by precipitation , or undue preparation , to be abused into mistakes ; yet we may be well assured that such connexions and inferences as appear to us certain , are infallibly true . if this be not acknowledged , then all our obligation to believe any thing in religion will vanish . for that there is a god ; that he made all things , and is to be acknowledged and obeyed by his creatures ; that our souls shall out-live their union with our bodies , and be capable of rewards and punishments in another state ; that inspiration is a thing possible ; that such or such actions were above the power of nature , and were really performed . in a word , all the maxims on which the belief , either of natural religion , or revealed , is founded , are such as we can have no certainty about them , and by consequence are not obliged to yield to them ; if our faculty of reasoning in its clear deductions is not a sufficient warrant for a sure belief . but to examin a little more home their beloved principle , that their church cannot err : must they not prove this from the divine goodness and veracity , from some passages of scripture , from miracles and other extraordinary things they pretend do accompany their church ? now in yielding assent to this doctrine upon these proofs , the mind must be led by many arguments , through a great many deductions and inferences . therefore we are either certain of these deductions , or we are not . if we are certain , this must either be founded on the authority of the church expounding them , or on the strength of the arguments . now we being to examine this authority , not having yet submitted to it ; this cannot determine our belief till we see good cause for it . but in the discerning this good cause of believing the church infallible , they must say that an uncontroulable evidence of reason is ground enough to fix our faith on , or there can be no certain ground to believe the church infallible . so that it is apparent we must either receive with a firm persuasion what our souls present to us as uncontroulably true ; or else we have no reason to believe there is a god , or to be christians , or to be , as they would have us , romanists . and if it be acknowledged there is cause in some cases for us to be determined by the clear evidence of reason in its judgments and inferences ; then we have this truth gained , that our reasons are capable of making true and certain inferences , and that we have good cause to be determined in our belief by these ; and therefore inferences from scripture ought to direct our belief . nor can any thing be pretended against this , but what must at the same time overthrow all knowledg and faith , and turn us sceptical to every thing . we desire it be in the next place considered , what is the end and use of speech and writing , which is to make known our thoughts to others ; those being artificial signs for conveying them to the understanding of others . now every man that speaks pertinently ; as he designs to be understood , so he chooses such expressions and arguments as are most proper to make himself understood by those he speaks to ; and the clearer he speaks , he speaks so much the better : and every one that wraps up his meaning in obscure words , he either does not distinctly apprehend that about which he discourses , or does not design that those to whom he speaks , should understand him , meaning only to amuse them . if likewise he say any thing from which some absurd inference will easily be apprehended , he gives all that hear him a sufficient ground of prejudice against what he says . for he must expect that as his hearers senses receive his words or characters , so necessarily some figure or notion must be at th● same time imprinted on their imagination , or presented to their reason ; this being the end for which he speaks ; and the more genuinely that his words express his meaning , the more certainly and clearly they to whom he directs them apprehend it . it must also be acknowledged , that all hearers must necessarily pass judgments on what they hear , if they do think it of that importance as to examin it . and this they must do by that natural faculty of making judgments and deductions , the certainty whereof we have proved to be the foundation of all faith and knowledg . now the chief rule of making true judgments , is , to see what consequences certainly follow on what is laid before us : if these be found absurd or impossible , we must reject that from which they follow as such . further ; because no man says every thing that can be thought or said to any point , but only such things as may be the seeds of further enquiry and knowledg in their minds to whom he speaks ; when any thing of great importance is spoken , all men do naturally consider what inferences arise out of what is said by a necessary connexion : and if these deductions be made with due care , they are of the same force , and must be as true as that was from which they are drawn . these being some of the laws of converse , which every man of common sense must know to be true ; can any man think , that when god was revealing by inspired men his counsels to mankind , in matters that concerned their eternal happiness , he would do it in any other way than any honest man speaks to another , that is , plainly and dinstinctly . there were particular reasons why prophetical visions must needs be obscure : but when christ appeared on earth , tho many things were not to be fully opened till he had triumphed over death and the powers of darkness ; yet his design being to bring men to god , what he spoke in order to that , we must think he intended that they to whom he spake it might understand it , otherwise why should he have spoken it to them ? and if he did intend they should understand him , then he must have used such expressions as were most proper for conveying this to their understandings ; and yet they were of the meaner sort , and of very ordinary capacities , to whom he addressed his discourses . if then such as they were , might have understood him ; how should it come about that now there should be such a wondrous mysteriousness in the words of christ and his apostles ? ( for the same reason by which it is proved that christ designed to be understood , and spake sutably to that design , will conclude as strongly that the discourses of the apostles in matters that concern our salvation , are also intelligible . ) we have a perfect understanding of the greek tongue ; and , tho some phrases are not so plain to us which alter every age , and some other passages that relate to some customs , opinions or forms , of which we have no perfect account left us , are hard to be understood : yet what is of general and universal concern , may be as well understood now as it was then ; for sense is sense still . so that it must be acknowledged , that men may still understand all that god will have us believe and do in order to salvation . and therefore if we apply and use our faculties aright , joyning with an unprejudiced desire and search for truth , earnest prayers , that god by his grace may so open our understandings , and present divine truths to them , that we may believe and follow them : then both from the nature of our own souls , and from the design and end of revelation , we may be well assured that it is not only very possible , but also very easy for us to find out truth . we know the pompous objection against this , is , how comes it then that there are so many errors and divisions among christians ? especially those that pretend the greatest acquaintance with scriptures ? to which the answer is so obvious and plain , that we wonder any body should be wrought on by so fallacious an argument . does not the gospel offer grace to all men to lead holy lives , following the commandments of god ? and is not grace able to build them up , and make them perfect in every good word and work ? and yet how does sin and vice abound in the world ? if then the abounding of error proves the gospel does not offer certain ways to preserve us from it , then the abounding of sin will also prove there are no certain ways in the gospel to avoid it . therefore as the sins mankind generally live in , leave no imputation on the gospel ; so neither do the many heresies and schisms conclude that the gospel offers no certain ways of attaining the knowledg of all necessary truth . holiness is every whit as necessary to see the face of god as knowledg is , and of the two is the more necessary ; since low degrees of knowledg , with an high measure of holiness , are infinitely preferable to high degrees of knowledg with a low measure of holiness . if then every man have a sufficient help given him to be holy , why may we not much rather conclude he has a sufficient help to be knowing in such things as are necessary to direct his belief and life , which is a less thing ? and how should it be an imputation on religion , that there should not be an infallible way to end all controversies , when there is no infallible way to subdue the corrupt lusts and passions of men , since the one is more opposite to the design and life of religion than the other ? in sum ; there is nothing more sure than that the scriptures offer us as certain ways of attaining the knowledg of what is necessary to salvation , as of doing the will of god. but as the depravation of our natures makes us neglect the helps towards an holy life ; so this and our other corruptions , lusts and interests , make us either not to discern divine truth , or not embrace it . so that error and sin are the twins of the same parents . but as every man that improves his natural powers , and implores and makes use of the supplies of the divine grace , shall be enabled to serve god acceptably ; so that tho he fail in many things , yet he continuing to the end in an habit and course of well-doing , his sins shall be forgiven , and himself shall be saved : so upon the same grounds we are assured , that every one that applies his rational faculties to the search of divine truth , and also begs the illumination of the divine spirit , shall attain such knowledg as is necessary for his eternal salvation : and if he be involved in any errors , they shall not be laid to his charge . and from these we hope it will appear , that every man may attain all necessary knowledg , if he be not wanting to himself . now when a man attains this knowledg , he acquires it , and must use it as a rational being , and so must make judgments upon it , and draw consequences from it ; in which he has the same reason to be assured , that he has to know the true meaning of scripture ; and therefore as he has very good reason to reject any meaning of a place of scripture , from which by a necessary consequence great absurdities and impossibilities must follow : so also he is to gather such inferences as flow from a necessary connexion with the true meaning of any place of scripture . to instance this in the argument we insisted on , to prove the mean by which christ is received in the sacrament , is faith ; from these words , whoso eats my flesh , and drinks my blood , hath eternal life . if these words have relation to the sacrament , which the roman church declares is the true meaning of them ; there cannot be a clearer demonstration in the world. and indeed they are necessitated to stand to that exposition ; for if they will have the words , this is my body , to be understood literally , much more must they assert the phrases of èating his flesh , and drinking his blood , must be literal : for if we can drive them to allow a figurative and spiritual meaning of these words , it is a shameless thing for them to deny such a meaning of the words , this is my body : they then expounding these words of st. iohn of the sacrament , there cannot be imagined a closer contexture than this which follows . the eating christ's flesh , and drinking his blood , is the receiving him in the sacrament ; therefore every one that receives him in the sacrament , must have eternal life . now all that is done in the sacrament , is either the external receiving the elements , symbols , or , as they phrase it , the accidents of bread and wine , and under these the body of christ ; or the internal and spiritual communicating by faith. if then christ received in the sacrament , gives eternal life , it must be in one of these ways ; either as he is received externally , or as he is received internally , or both ; for there is not a fourth : therefore if it be not the one at all , it must be the other only . now it is undeniable , that it is not the external eating that gives eternal life . for st. paul tells us , of some that eat and drink unworthily , that are guilty of the body and blood of the lord , and eat and drink iudgment against themselves . therefore it is only the internal receiving of christ by faith , that gives eternal life ; from which another necessary inference directs us also to conclude , that since all that eat his flesh , and drink his blood , have eternal life : and since it is only by the internal communicating that we have eternal life , therefore these words of eating his flesh , and drinking his blood , can only be understood of internal communicating ; therefore they must be spiritually understood . but all this while the reader may be justly weary of so much time and pains spent to prove a thing which carries its own evidence so with it , that it seems one of the first principles and foundations of all reasoning ; for no proposition can appear to us to be true , but we must also assent to every other deduction that is drawn out of it by a certain inference . if then we can certainly know the true meaning of any place of scripture , we may and ought to draw all such conclusions as follow it with a clear and just consequence : and if we clearly apprehend the consequence of any proposition , we can no more doubt the truth of the consequence , than of the proposition from which it sprung : for if i see the air full of a clear day-light , i must certainly conclude the sun is risen ; and i have the same assurance about the one that i have about the other . there is more than enough said already for discovering the vanity and groundlesness of this method of arguing . but to set the thing beyond all dispute , let us consider the use which we find our saviour and the apostles making of the old testament , and see how far it favours us , and condemns this appeal to the formal and express words of scriptures . but before we advance further , we must remove a prejudice against any thing may be drawn from such presidents , these being persons so filled with god and divine knowledg , as appeared by their miracles and other wonderful gifts , that gave so full an authority to all they said , and of their being infallible , both in their expositions and reasonings , that we whose understandings are darkened and disordered , ought not to pretend to argue as they did . but for clearing this , it is to be observed , that when any person divinely assisted , having sufficiently proved his inspiration , declares any thing in the name of god , we are bound to submit to it ; or if such a person , by the same authority , offers any exposition of scripture , he is to be believed without farther dispute . but when an inspired person argues with any that does not acknowledg his inspiration , but is enquiring into it , not being yet satisfied about it ; then he speaks no more as an inspired person : in which case the argument offered is to be examined by the force that is in it , and not by the authority of him that uses it . for his authority being the thing questioned , if he offers an argument from any thing already agreed to ; and if the argument be not good , it is so far from being the better by the authority of him that useth it ; that it rather gives just ground to lessen or suspect his authority , that understands a consequence so ill , as to use a bad argument to use it by . this being premised . when our saviour was to prove against the sadducees the truth of the resurrection from the scriptures , he cites out of the law , that god was the god of abraham , isaac , and jacob ; since then god is not the god of the dead , but of the living : therefore abraham , isaac and jacob did live unto god. from which he proved the souls having a being distinct from the body , and living after its separation from the body , which was the principal point in controversy . now if these new maxims be of any force , so that we must only submit to the express words of scripture , without proving any thing by consequence ; then certainly our saviour performed nothing in that argument : for the sadducees might have told him , they appealed to the express words of scripture . but alas ! they understood not these new-found arts , but submitting to the evident force of that consequence , were put to silence , and the multitudes were astonished at his doctrine . now it is unreasonable to imagine that the great authority of our saviour , and his many miracles made them silent ; for they coming to try him , and to take advantage from every thing he said , if it were possible to lessen his esteem and authority , would never have acquiesced in any argument because he used it , if it had not strength in it self ; for an ill argument is an ill argument , use it whoso will. for instance ; if i see a man pretending that he sits in an infallible chair , and proving what he delievers by the most impertinent allegations of scripture possible ; as if he attempt to prove the pope must be the head of all powers civil and spiritual from the first words of genesis ; where it being said , in the beginning , and not in the * beginnings , in the plural , ( from which he concludes there must be but one beginning and head of all power , to wit , the pope . ) i am so far from being put to silence with this , that i am only astonished how any man of common sense , tho he pretended not to infallibility , could fall into such errors : for an ill argument , when its fallacy is so apparent , must needs heap contempt on him that uses it . having found our saviour's way of arguing to be so contrary to this new method these gentlemen would impose on us ; let us see how the apostles drew their proofs for matters in controversy from scriptures : the two great points they had most occasion to argue upon , were , iesus christ being the true messiah , and the freedom of the gentiles from any obligation to the observance of the mosaical law. now let us see how they proceeded in both these . for the first : in the first sermon after the effusion of the holy ghost , s. peter proves the truth of christ's resurrection from these words of david , thou wilt not leave my soul in hell , nor suffer thine holy one to see corruption . now he shews that these words could not be meant of david , who was dead and buried ; therefore being a prophet , he spake of the resurrection of christ. if here were not consequences and deductions , let every one judg . now these being spoken to those who did not then believe in christ , there was either sufficient force in that argument to convince the jews , otherwise these that spake them were very much both to be blamed , and despised , for offering to prove a matter of such importance by a consequence . but this being a degree of blasphemy against the holy ghost , we must acknowledg there was strength in their argument ; and therefore articles of faith , whereof this was the fundamental , may be proved from scripture by a consequence . we might add to this all the other prophecies in the old testament , from which we find the apostles arguing to prove this foundation of their faith , which every one may see do not contain in so many words that which was proved by them . but these being so obvious , we choose only to name this , all the rest being of a like nature with it . the next controversy debated in that time , was the obligation of the mosaichal law. the apostles by the inspiration of the holy ghost made a formal decision in this matter : yet there being great opposition made to that , st. paul sets himself to prove it at full length in his epistle to the galatians , where , besides other arguments , he brings these two from the old testament ; one was , that abraham was justified by faith before the giving the law ; for which he cites these words , abraham believed god , and it was counted to him for righteousness : from which , by a very just consequence , he infers , that as abraham was blessed , so all that believe are blessed with him ; and that the law of moses , that was years after , could not disannul it , or make the promise of none effect ; therefore we might now be justified by faith without the law , as well as he was . another place he cites , is , the iust shall live by faith , and he subsumes , the law was not of faith ; from which the conclusion naturally follows : therefore the just lives not by the law. he must be very blind that sees not a succession of many consequences in that epistle of st. paul's ; all which had been utterly impertinent , if this new method had any ground for its pretension , and they might at one dash have overthrown all that he had said . but men had not then arrived at such devices as must at once overturn all the sense and reason of mankind . we hope what we premised will be remembred , to shew that the apostles being infallibly directed by the holy ghost , will not at all prove , that tho this way of arguing might have passed with them , yet it must not be allowed us : for their being infallibly directed , proves their arguments and way of proceeding was rational and convincing , otherwise they had not pitched on it . and the persons to whom these arguments were offered , not acquiescing in their authority , their reasonings must have been good , otherwise they had exposed themselves and their cause to the just scorn of their enemies . having therefore evinced that both our saviour and his apostles did prove by consequences drawn from scripture , the greatest and most important articles of faith ; we judg that we may with very great assurance follow their example . but this whole matter will receive a further confirmation : if we find it was the method of the church of god in all ages to found her decisions of the most important controversies on consequences from scriptures . there were very few hereticks that had face and brow enough to set up against express words of scripture ; for such as did so , rejected these books that were so directly opposite to their errors ; as the manichees did the gospel of st. matthew . but if we examine the method either of councils in condemning hereticks , or of the fathers writing against them , we shall always find them proceeding upon deductions and consequences from scripture , as a sufficient ground to go upon . let the epistle both of the council of antioch to samosatenus , and denis of alexandria's letter to him , be considered ; and it shall be found how they drew their definitions out of deductions from scripture . so also alexander , patriarch of alexandria , in his epistle , in which he condemned aerius , proceeds upon deductions from scripture ; and when the council of nice came to judg of the whole matter , if we give credit to gelasius , they canvassed many places of scripture , that they might come to a decision ; and that whole dispute , as he represents it , was all about inferences and deductions from scripture . it is true , f. maimbourg in his romantick history of arrianism ( hist. de l. arrian . l. . ) would perswade us , that in that council the orthodox , and chiefly the great saints of the council , were for adhering closely to what they had received by tradition , without attempting to give new expositions of scripture , to interpret it any other way than as they had learned from these fathers , that had been taught them by the apostles . but the arrians , who could not find among these that which they intended to establish , maintained on the contrary , that we must not confine our selves to that which hath been held by antiquity , since none could be sure about that . therefore they thought that one must search the truth of the doctrine only in the scriptures , which they could turn to their own meaning by their false subtilties . and to make this formal account pass easily with his reader , he vouches on the margin , sozom. cap. . when i first read this , it amazed me to find a thing of so great consequence not so much as observed by the writers of controversies ; but turning to sozomen , i found in him these words , speaking of the dispute about arrius his opinions , the disputation being , as is usual , carried out into different enquiries ; some were of opinion that nothing should be innovated beyond the faith that was originally delivered ; and these were chiefly those whom the simplicity of their manners bad brought to divine faith without nice curiosity . others did strongly , or earnestly contend that it was not fit to follow the ancienter opinions , without a strict trial of them . now in these words we find not a word either of orthodox or arrian ; so of which side either one or other were , we are left to conjecture . that jesuit has been sufficiently exposed by the writers of the port-royal , for his foul dealing on other occasions ; and we shall have great cause to mistrust him in all his accounts , if it be found that he was quite mistaken in this ; and that the party which he calls the orthodox were really some holy , good men ; but simple , ignorant , and easily abused : and that the other party which he calls the arrian , was the orthodox , and more judicious , who readily foreseeing the inconvenience which the simplicity of others would have involved them in , did vehemently oppose it ; and pressed the testimonies of the fathers might not be blindly followed . for proof of this , we need but consider that they anathematized these , who say that the son was the work of the father , as athanasius ( de decret . synod . nicen. ) tells us , which were the very words of denis of alexandria , of whom the arrians ( athan. epist. de sententia dion . alex. ) boasted much , and cited these words from him ; and both athanasius ( de synod . arim. ) and hilary ( hil. lib. de synod . ) acknowledg that those bishops that condemned samosatenus , did also reiect the consubstantial , and st. basil ( epist. . ) says , denis sometimes denied , sometimes acknowledged the consubstantial . yet i shall not be so easy as petavius and others of the roman church are in this matter , who acknowledg that most of the fathers before the council of nice said many things that did not agree with the rule of the orthodox faith ; but am fully perswaded , that before that council , the church did believe that the son was truly god , and of the same divine substance with the father : yet on the other hand it cannot be denied , but there are many expressions , in their writings which they had not so well considered ; and thence it is that st. basil ( epist. . ) observes how denis in his opposition to sabellius had gone too far on the other hand . therefore there was a necessity to make such a symbol as might cut off all equivocal and ambiguous forms of speech . so we have very good reason to conclude it was the arrian party , that studied under the pretence of not innovating , to engage many of the holy , but simpler bishops , to be against any new words or symbols , that so they might still lurk undiscovered . upon what grounds the council of nice made their decree and symbol , we have no certain account , since their acts are lost . but the best conjecture we can make , is from st. athanasius , who , as he was a great assertor of the faith in that council , so also he gives us a large account of its creed , in a particular treatise ( lib. de decret . concil . nicen. ) in which he justifies their symbol at great length out of the scriptures , and tells us very formally they used the word consubstantial , that the wickedness and craft of the arrians might be discovered , and proves by many consequences from scripture , that the words were well chosen ; and sets up his rest on his arguments from the scriptures , tho all his proofs are but consequences drawn out of them . it is true , when he has done that , he also adds , that the fathers at nice did not begin the use of these words , but had them from those that went before them ; and cites some passages from theognistus , denis of alexandria , denis of rome , and origen . but no body can imagin this was a full proof of the tradition of the faith. these were but a few later writers , nor could he have submitted the decision of the whole controversy to two of these , denis of alexandria and origen , ( for the other two , their works are lost ) in whose writings there were divers passages that favoured the arrians , and in which they boasted much . therefore athanasius only cites these passages , to shew the words of these symbols were not first coined by the council of nice . but neither in that treatise , nor in any other of his works , do i ever find that either the council of nice , or he who was the great champion for their faith , did study to prove the consubstantiality to have been the constant tradition of the church : but in all his treatises he at full length proves it from scripture . so from the definition of the council of nice , and athanasius his writings , it appears the church of that age thought that consequences clearly proved from scripture were a sufficient ground to build an article of faith on . with this i desire it be also considered , that the next great controversy , that was carried on chiefly by s. cyril against the nestorians , was likewise all managed by consequences from scripture , as will appear to any that reads s. cyril's writings , inserted in the acts of the council of ephesus , chiefly his treatise to the queens ; and when he brought testimonies from the fathers against nestorius , which were read in the council , ( act. conc. eph. action . ) they are all taken out of fathers that lived after the council of nice , except only s. cyprian , and peter of alexandria . if then we may collect from s. cyril's writings the sense of that council , as we did from s. athanasius that of the council of nice ; we must conclude that their decrees were founded on consequences drawn from scripture ; nor were they so solicitous to prove a continued succession of the tradition . in like manner , when the council of chalcedon condemned eutyches , pope leo's epistle to flavian was read , and all assented to it : so that upon the matter , his epistle became the decree of the council , and that whole epistle from beginning to end , is one entire series of consequences proved from scripture and reason : ( act. conc. chalced. action . ) and to the end of that epistle are added in the acts of that council , testimonies from the fathers , that had lived after the days of the council of nice . theodoret ( theod. in dial. ) and gelasius also ( gelas. de diab . naturis . ) who wrote against the eutychians , do through their whole writings pursue them with consequences drawn from scripture and reason , and in the end set down testimonies from fathers : and to instance only one more , when s. austin wrote against the pelagians , how many consequences he draws from scripture , every one that has read him , must needs know . in the end let it be also observed , that all these fathers when they argue from places of scripture , they never attempt to prove that those scriptures had been expounded in that sense they urge them in by the councils or fathers who had gone before them ; but argue from the sense which they prove they ought to be understood in . i do not say all their consequences or expositions were well-grounded ; but all that has been hitherto set down , will prove that they thought arguments drawn from scripture , when the consequences are clear , were of sufficient authority and force to end all controversies . and thus it may appear that it is unreasonable , and contrary to the practice both of the ancient councils and fathers , to reject proofs drawn from places of scripture , though they contain not in so many words that which is intended to be proved by them . but all the answer they can offer to this , is , that those fathers and councils had another authority to draw consequences from scripture , because the extraordinary presence of god was among them , and because of the tradition of the faith they builded their decrees on , than we can pretend to , who do not so much as say we are so immediately directed , or thar we found our faith upon the successive tradition of the several ages of the church . to this i answer ; first , it is visible , that if there be any strength in this , it will conclude as well against our using express words of scripture , since the most express words are capable of several expositions . therefore it is plain , they use no fair dealing in this appeal to the formal words of scripture , since the arguments they press it by , do invalidate the most express testimonies as well as deductions . let it be further considered , that before the councils had made their decrees , when heresies were broached , the fathers wrote against them , confuting them by arguments made up of scripture-consequences ; so that before the church had decreed , they thought private persons might confute heresies by such consequences . nor did these fathers place the strength of their arguments on tradition , as will appear to any that reads but what st. cyril wrote against nestorius , before the council of ephesus ; and pope leo against eutyches , before the council of chalcedon ; where all their reasonings are founded on scripture . it is true , they add some testimonies of fathers to prove they did not innovate any thing in the doctrine of the church : but it is plain , these they brought only as a confirmation of their arguments , and not as the chief strength of their cause ; for as they do not drive up the tradition to the apostles days , setting only down some later testimonies ; so they make no inferences from them , but barely set them down . by which it is evident , all the use they made of these , was only to shew that the faith of the age that preceded them , was conform to the proofs they brought from scripture ; but did not at all found the strength of their arguments from scripture , upon the sense of the fathers that went before them . and if the council of nice had passed the decree of adding the consubstantials to the creed , upon evidence brought from tradition chiefly , can it be imagined that st. athanasius , who knew well on what grounds they went , having born so great a share in their consultations and debates , when he in a formal treatise justifies that addition , should draw his chief arguments from scripture and natural reason ; and that only towards the end , he should tell us of four writers , from whom he brings passages to prove this was no new or unheard-of thing . in the end , when the council had passed their decree , does the method of their dispute alter ? let any read athanasius , hilary , or st. austin writing against the arrians : they continue still to ply them with arguments made up of consequences from scripture ; and their chief argument was clearly a consequence from scripture , that since christ was , by the confession of the arrians , truly god , then he must be of the same substance , otherwise there must be more substances , and so more gods , which was against scripture . now , if this be not a consequence from scripture , let every body judg . it was on this they chiefly insisted , and waved the authority of the council of nice , which they mention very seldom , or when they do speak of it , it is to prove that its decrees were according to scripture . for proof of this , let us hear what st. austin says ( lib. . cont. max. . ) writing against maximinus an arrian bishop , proving the consubstantiality of the son : this is that consubstantial which was established by the catholick fathers in the council of nice , against the arrians ; by the authority of truth , and the truth of authority , which heretical impiety studied to overthrow , under the heretical emperor constantius , because of the newness of the words , which were not so well understood , as should have been : since the ancient faith had brought them forth ; but many were abused by the fraud of a few . and a little after he adds , but now neither should i bring the cou●il of nice , nor yet the council of arrimini , thereby to prejudg in this matter ; neither am i bound by the authority of the latter , nor you by the authority of the former . let one cause and reason contest and strive with the other from the authorities of the scriptures , which are witnesses common to both , and not proper to either of us . if this be not our plea , as formally as can be , let every reader judg ; from all which we conclude , that our method of proving articles of faith by consequences drawn from scripture , is the same that the catholick church in all the best ages made use of : and therefore it is unreasonable to deny it to us . but all that hath been said will appear yet with fuller and more demonstrative evidence , if we find , that this very pretence of appealing to formal words of scriptures , was on several occasions taken up by divers hereticks , but was always rejected by the fathers as absurd and unreasonable . the first time we find this plea in any bodies mouth , is upon the question , whether it was lawful for christians to go to the theaters , or other publick spectacles ? which the fathers set themselves mightily against , as that which would corrupt the minds of the people , and lead them to heathenish idolatry . but others that loved those diverting sights , pleaded for them upon this ground , as tertullian ( lib. de spect. c. . ) tells us in these words ; the faith of some being either simpler or more scrupulous , calls for an authority from scripture , for the discharge of these sights ; and they became uncertain about it , because such abstinence is no-where denounced to the servants of god , neither by a clear signification , nor by name ; as , thou shalt not kill , nor worship an idol : but he proves it from the first verse of the psalms ; for though that seems to belong to the iews , yet ( says he ) the scripture is always to be divided broad , where that discipline is to be guarded according to the sense of whatever is present to us . and this agrees with that maxim he has elsewhere , ( lib. adv . gnost . c. . ) that the words of scripture are to be understood , not only by their sound , but by their sense ; and are not only to be heard with our ears , but with our minds . in the next place , the arrians designed to shroud themseles under general expressions ; and had found glosses for all passages of scripture . so that when the council of nice made all these ineffectual , by putting the word consubstantial into the creed ; then did they in all their councils , and in all disputes , set up this plea , that they would submit to every thing that was in scripture , but not to any additions to scripture . a large account of this we have from athanasius , who ( de synod . arim. & seleuc. ) gives us many of their creeds . in that proposed at arimini , these words were added to the symbol , for the word substance , because it was simply set down by the fathers , and is not understood by the people , but breeds scandal , since the scriptures have it not , therefore we have thought fit it be left out , and that there be no more mention made of substance concerning god , since the scriptures no-where speak of the substance of the father and the son. he also tells us , that at sirmium they added words to the same purpose to their symbol , rejecting the words of substance or consubstantial , because nothing is written of them in the scriptures , and they transcend the knowledg and understanding of men. thus we see how exactly the plea of the arrians agrees with what is now offered to be imposed on us . but let us next see what the father says to this : he first turns it back on the arrians , and shews how far they were from following that rule which they imposed on others . and if we have not as good reason to answer those so , who now take up the same plea , let every one judg . but then the father answers , it was no matter though one used forms of speech that were not in scripture , if he had still a sound or pious understanding ; as on the contrary an her●tical person , though be uses forms out of scripture , he will not be the less suspected , if his understanding be corrupted ; and at full length applies that to the question of the consubstantiality . to the same purpose , st. hillary ( de synod . adv . arrian . ) setting down the arguments of the arrians against the consubstantiality , the third objection is , that it was added by the council of nice , but ought not to be received , because it is no-where written . but he answers ; it was a foolish thing to be afraid of a word , when the thing expressed by the word has no difficulty . we find likewise in the conference st. austin had with maximinus the arrian bishop , ( lib. . cont . max. arr. epist. ) in the very beginning the arrian tells him , that he must hearken to what he brought out of the scriptures , which were common to them all ; but for words that were not in scripture , they were in no case received by them . and afterwards he says , ( lib. . c. . ) we receive with a full veneration every thing that is brought out of the holy scriptures , for the scriptures are not in our dominion that they may be mended by us . and a little after adds , truth is not gathered out of arguments , but is proved by sure testimonies , therefore he seeks a testimony of the holy ghost's being god. but to that st. austin makes answer , that from the things that we read , we must understand the things that we read not . and giving an account of another conference ( epist. . ) he had with count pascentius that was an arrian , he tells , that the arrian did most earnestly press that the word consubstantial might be shewed in scripture , repeating this frequently , and canvassing about it invidiously . to whom st. austin answers , nothing could be more contentious than to strive about a word , when the thing was certain ; and asks him where the word unbegotten ( which the arrians used ) was in scripture ? and since it was no-where in scripture , he from thence concludes , there might be a very good account given why a word that was not in scripture , might be well used . and by how many consequences he proves the consubstantiality we cannot number , except that whole epistle were set down . and again , in that which is called an epistle , ( epist. . ) but is an account of another conference between that same person and st. austin , the arrian desired the consubstantiality might be accursed , because it was no-where to be found written in the scriptures ; and adds , that it was a grievous trampling on the authority of the scripture , to set down that which the scripture had not said ; for if any thing be set down without authority from the divine volumes , it is proved to be void ; against which st. austin argues at great length , to prove that it necessarily follows from other places of scripture . in the conference between photinus , sabellius , arrius , and athanasius , first published by cassander , ( oper. cass. ) as a work of vigilius , but believed to be the work of gelasius an african ; where we have a very full account of the pleas of these several parties . arrius challenges the council of nice for having corrupted the faith with the addition of new words , and complains of the consubstantial , and says , the apostles , their disciples , and all their successors downward , that had lived in the confession of christ to that time , were ignorant of that word : and on this he insists with great vehemency , urging it over and over again , pressing athanasius either to read it properly set down in scripture , or to cast it out of his confession ; against which athanasius replies , and shews him how many things they acknowledged against the other hereticks , which were not written ; shew me these things , ( says he ) not from conjectures or probabilities , or things that do neighbour on reason , not from things that provoke us to understand them so , nor from the piety of faith , persuading such a profession ; but shew it written in the pure and naked property of words , that the father is unbegotten , or impassible . and then he tells arrius , that when he went about to prove this , he should not say , the reason of faith required this , piety teaches it , the consequence from scripture forces me to this profession . i will not allow you , says he , to obtrude these things on me ; because you reject me when i bring you such like things , for the profession of the consubstantial . in the end he says , either permit me to prove the consubstantial by consequences , or if you will not , you must deny all those things which you your self grant . and after athanasius had urged this further , probus , that fate judg in the debate , said , neither one nor other could shew all that they believed properly and specially in scripture : therefore he desired they would trifle no longer in such a childish contest , but prove either the one or rhe other by a just consequence from scripture . in the macedonian controversy against the divinity of the holy ghost , we find this was also their plea ; a hint of it was already mentioned in the conference betwixt maximinus the arrian bishop , and st. austin , which we have more fully in st. greg. nazianz. ( orat. . ) who proving the divinity of the holy ghost , meets with that objection of the macedonians , that it was in no place of scripture , to which he answers , some things seemed to be said in scripture that truly are not , as when god is said to sleep ; some things truly are , but are no-where said , as the fathers being unbegotten , which they themselves believed , and concludes , that these things are drawn from those things out of which they are gathered , though they be not mentioned in scripture . therefore he upbraids those for serving the letter , and joyning themselves to the wisdom of the jews , and that leaving things , they followed syllables : and shews how valid a good consequence is ; as if a man , says he , speaks of a living creature that is reasonable , but mortal ; i conclude it must be a man : do i for that seem to rave ? not at all ; for these words are not more truly his that says them , than his that did make the saying of them necessary : so he infers , that he might , without fear , believe such things as he either found or gathered from the scriptures , though they either were not at all , or not clearly in the scriptures . we find also in a dialogue between an orthodox and a macedonian , that is in athanasius's works , but believed to be written by maximus , after he had proved by a great many arguments that the attributes of the divine nature , such as the omniscience and omnipresence were ascribed to the holy ghost . in end the macedonian flies to this known refuge , that it was no-where written , that he was god , and so challenges him for saying , that which was not in scripture . but the orthodox answers , that in the scriptures the divine nature was ascribed to the holy ghost , and since the name follows the nature , he concludes , if the holy ghost did subsist in himself , did sanctifie , and was increated , he must be god whether the other would or not . then he asks , where it was written , that the son was like the father in his essence ? the heretick answers , that the fathers had declared the son consubstantial as to his essence but the orthodox replies , ( which we desire may be well considered ) were they moved to that from the sense of the scripture , or was it of their own authority or arrogance , that they said any thing that was not written . the other confesses it was from the sense of the scripture , that they were moved to it ; from this the orthodox infers , that the sense of the scripture teaches us , that an uncreated spirit that is of god , and quickens and sanctifies , is a divine spirit , and from thence he concludes , he is god. thus we see clearly , how exactly the macedonians and these gentlemen agree , and what arguments the fathers furnish us with against them . the nestorian history followed this tract , and we find nestorius both in his letters ( act. syn. eph. ) to cyril of alexandria , to pope celestin , and in these writings of his that were read in the council of ephesus , ( action . ) gives that always for his reason of denying the blessed virgin to have been the mother of god , because the scriptures did no-where mention it , but call her always the mother of christ , and yet that general council condemned him for all that ; and his friend iohn , patriarch of antioch , earnestly pressed him by his letters not to reject but to use that word , since the sense of it was good , and it agreed with the scriptures ; and it was generally used by many of the fathers , and had never been rejected by any one . this was also eutyches his last refuge , ( act. . syn. constantin . in act. . chalcedon . ) when he was called to appear before the council at constantinople , he pretended sickness , and that he would never stir out of his monastery ; but being often cited , he said to those that were sent to him , in what scripture were the two natures of christ to be found ? to which they replied , in what scripture was the consubstantial to be found : thus turning his plea back on himself , as the orthodox had done before on the arrians . eutyches also when he made his appearance , he ended his defence with this , that he had not found that ( to wit , of the two natures ) plainly in the scripture , and that all the fathers had not said it . but for all that , he was condemned by that council which was afterwards ratified by the universal council of chalcedon . yet after this repeated condemnation the eutychians laid not down this plea , but continued still to appeal to the express words of scripture ; which made theodoret write two discourses to shew the unreasonableness of that pretence , they are published in athanasius his works ( tom. . op . athan. ) among these sermons against hereticks : but most of these are theodoret's , as appears clearly from photius ( bibl. cod. . ) his account of theodoret's works ; the very titles of them lead us to gather his opinion of this plea : the th discourse , which by photius's account , is the th , has this title , to those that say we ought to receive the expression , and not look to the things signified by them , as transcending all men . the th , or according to photius , the d , is , to those who say we ought to believe simply as they say , and not consider what is convenient or inconvenient . if i should set down all that is pertinent to this purpose , i must set down the whole discourses ; but i shall gather out of them such things as are most proper . he first complains of those who studied to subvert all humane things , and would not suffer men to be any longer reasonable , that would receive the words of the sacred writings without consideration , or good direction , not minding the pious scope for which they are written : for if ( as they would have us ) we do not consider what they mark out to us , but simply receive their words , then all that the prophets and apostles have written , will prove of no use to those that hear them , for then they will hear with their ears , but not understand with their hearts ; nor consider the consequence of the things that are said , according to the curse in isaias . — and after he had applied this to those who misunderstood that place , the word was made flesh , he adds , shall i hear a saying , and shall i not enquire into its proper meaning , where then is the proper consequence of what is said , or the profit of the hearer ? would they have men changed into the nature of bruits ? if they must only receive the sound of words with their ears , but no fruit in their soul from the understanding of them . contrariwise did st. paul tell us , they who are perfect have their senses exercised to discern good and evil ; but how can any discern aright , if he do not apprehend the meaning of what is said ? and such he compares to beasts , and makes them worse than the clean beasts , who chew the cud ; and , as a man is to consider what meats are set before him , so he must not snatch words stripp'd of their meaning , but must carefully consider what is suitable to god , and profitable to us , what is the force of truth , what agrees with the law , or answers to nature ; he must consider the genuineness of faith , the firmness of hope , the sincerity of love , what is liable to no reproach , what is beyond envy , and worthy of favour ; all which things concur in pious meditations . and concludes thus , the sum of all is , he that receives any words , and does not consider the meaning of them , how can he understand those that seem to contradict others ? where shall he find a fit answer ? how shall he satisfie those that interrogate him , or defend that which is written ? these passages are out of the first discourse , what follows is out of the second . in the beginning he says , though the devil has invented many grievous doctrines , yet he doubts if any former age brought forth any thing like that then broached . former heresies had their own proper errors ; but this that was now invented renewed all others , and exceeded all others . which , says he , receives simply what is said , but does not enquire what is convenient , or inconvenient : but shall i believe without judgment , and not enquire what is possible , convenient , decent , acceptable to god , answerable to nature , agreeable to truth , or is a consequence from the scope , or suitable to the mystery , or to piety ; or what outward reward , or inward fruit accompanies it ; or must i reckon on none of these things . but the cause of all our adversaries errors , is , that with their ears they hear words , but have no understanding of them in their hearts ; for all of them ( and names divers ) shun a trial , that they be not convinced , and at length shews what absurdities must follow on such a method . instancing those places about which the contest was with the arrians , such as these words of christ , the father is greater than i. and shews what apparent contradictions there are , if we do not consider the true sense of places of scripture that seem contradictory , which must be reconciled by finding their true meaning ; and concludes , so we shall either perswade , or overcome our adversary ; so we shall shew that the holy scripture is consonant to its self ; so we shall justly publish the glory of the mystery , and shall treasure up such a full assurance as we ought to have in our souls ; we shall neither believe without the word , nor speak without faith. now i challenge every reader , to consider if any thing can be devised , that more formally , and more nervously overthrows all the pretences brought for his appeal to the express words of scripture . and here i stop ; for though i could carry it further , and shew that other hereticks shrowded themselves under the same pretext , yet i think all impartial readers will be satisfied , when they find this was an artifice of the first four grand heresies , condemned by the first four general councils , and from all has been said , it is apparent how oft this very pretence has been baffled by universal councils and fathers . yet i cannot leave this with the reader , without desiring him to take notice of a few particulars that deserve to be considered . the first is , that which these gentlemen would impose on us has been the plea of the greatest hereticks have been in the church . those therefore who take up these weapons of hereticks , which have been so oft blunted and broken in their hands , by the most universal councils , and the most learned fathers of the catholick church ; till at length they were laid aside by all men , as unfit for any service , till in this age some jesuits took them up in defence of an often baffled cause , do very unreasonably pretend to the spirit or doctrine of catholicks , since they tread a path so oft beaten by all hereticks , and abhorred by all the orthodox . secondly , we find the fathers always begin their answering this pretence of hereticks , by shewing them how many things they themselves believed , that were no-where written in scripture . and this i believe was all the ground m. w. had for telling us in our conference that st austin bade the heretick read what he said . i am confident that gentleman is a man of candour and honour , and so am assured he would not have been guilty of such a fallacy , as to have cited this for such a purpose , if he had not taken it on trust from second hands . but he who first made use of it , if he have no other authority of st. austin's , which i much doubt , cannot be an honest man ; who , because st. austin , to shew the arrians how unjust it was to ask words for every thing they believed , urges them with this , that they could not read all that they believed themselves , would from that conclude , st. austin thought every article of faith must be read in so many words in scripture . this is such a piece of ingenuity as the jesuits used in the contest about st. austin's doctrine , concerning the efficacy of grace : when they cited as formal passages out of st. austin , some of the objections of the semipelagians , which he sets down , and afterwards answers , which they brought without his answers , as his words , to shew he was of their side . but to return to our purpose ; from this method of the fathers we are taught to turn this appeal to express words , back on those who make use of it against us ; and to ask them where do they read their purgatory , sacrifice of the mass , transubstantiation , the pope's supremacy , with a great many more things in the express words of scripture . thirdly , we see the peremptory answer the fathers agree in , is , that we must understand the scriptures , and draw just consequences from them , and not stand on words or phrases ; but consider things : and from these we are furnished with an excellent answer to every thing of this nature they can bring against us . it is in those great saints , athanasius , hilary , gregory nazianzen , austin , and theodoret , that they will find our answer as fully and formally as need be ; and to them we refer our selves . but , fourthly , to improve this beyond the particular occasion that engaged us to all this enquiry , we desire it be considered that when such an objection was made , which those of the church of rome judge is strong to prove , we must rely on somewhat else than scripture , either on the authority of the church , or on the certainty of tradition . the first councils and fathers had no such apprehension . all considering men , chiefly when they are arguing a nice point , speak upon some hypothesis or opinion with which they are prepossessed , and must certainly discourse consequently to it . to instance it in this particular ; if an objection be made against the drawing consequences from scripture , since all men may be mistaken ; and therefore they ought not to trust their own reasonings . a papist must necessarily upon his hypothesis say , it is true , any man may err , but the whole church , either when assembled in a council with the holy ghost in the midst of them , or when they convey down from the apostles , through age to age , the tradition of the exposition of the scriptures cannot err , for god will be with them to the end of the world. a protestant must on the other hand , according to his principles , argue , that since man has a reasonable soul in him , he must be supposed endued with a faculty of making inferences : and when any consequence is apparent to our understandings , we ought and must believe it as much as we do that from which the consequenee is drawn . therefore we must not only read , but study to understand the true meaning of scripture : and we have so much the more reason to be assured of what appears to us to be the true sense of the scriptures , if we find the church of god in the purest times , and the fathers believing as we believe . if we should hear two persons that were unknown to us , argue either of these two ways , we must conclude , the one is a papist , the other a protestant , as to this particular . now i desire the reader may compare what has been cited from the fathers upon this subject : and see if what they write upon it does not exactly agree with our hypothesis and principles . whence we may very justly draw another conclusion that will go much further than this particular we now examine ; that in seeking out the decision of all controversies , the fathers went by the same rules we go by , to wit , the clear sense of scriptures , as it must appear to every considering mans understanding , backed with the opinion of the fathers that went before them . and thus far have i followed this objection ; and have , as i hope , to every reader 's satisfaction made it out , that there can be nothing more unreasonable , more contrary to the articles and doctrine of our church , to the nature of the soul of man , to the use and end of words and discourse , to the practice of christ and his apostles , to the constant sense of the primitive church , and that upon full and often renewed contest with hereticks upon this very head : then to impose on us an obligation to read all the articles of our church in the express words of scripture . so that i am confident this will appear to every considering person , the most trifling and pitiful objection that can be offered by men of common sense and reason . and therefore it is hoped , that all persons who take any care of their souls , will examine things more narrowly than to suffer such tricks to pass upon them , or to be shaken by such objections . and if all the scruple these gentlemen have , why they do not joyn in communion with the church of england , lies in this ; we expect they shall find it so entirely satisfied , and removed out of the way , that they shall think of returning back to that church where they had their baptism and christian education , and which is still ready to receive them with open arms , and to restore such as have been over-reached into error and heresie , with the spirit of meekness . to which i pray god of his great mercy dispose both them and all others , who upon these or such like scruples have deserted the purest church upon earth ; and have turned over to a most impure and corrupt society . and let all men say , amen . a discourse to shew that it was not only possible to change the belief of the church concerning the manner of christ's presence in the sacrament ; but that it is very reasonable to conclude , both that it might be done , and that it was truly changed . there is only one particular of any importance , that was mentioned in the conference , to which we forgot to make any answer at all , which was spoken by n. n. to this purpose ; how was it possible , or to be imagined that the church of god could ever have received such a doctrine as the belief of transubstantiation , if every age had not received it , and been instructed in it by their fathers , and the age that went before it ? this by a pure forgetfulness was not answered ; and one of these gentlemen took notice of it to me , meeting with me since that time , and desired me to consider what a friend of n. n. has lately printed on this subject , in a letter concerning transubstantiation , directed to a person of honour : in which , a great many pretended impossibilities of any such innovation of the doctrine are reckoned up ; to shew it a thing both inconceivable and unpracticable , to get the faith of the church changed in a thing of this nature . this same plea has been managed with all the advantages possible , both of wit , eloquence , and learning , by mr. arnaud of the sorbon ; but had been so exposed and baffled by mr. claud , who , as he equals the other in learning , eloquence , and wit , so having much the better of him in the cause and truth he vindicates , has so foiled the other in this plea , that he seeing no other way to preserve that high reputation which his other writings , and the whole course of his life had so justly acquired him ; has gone off from the main argument on which they begun , and betaken himself to a long and unprofitable enquiry into the belief of the greek church , since her schism from the latine church . the contest has been oft renewed , and all the ingenious and learned persons of both sides , have looked on with great expectations . every one must confess , mr. arnaud has said all can be said in such a cause ; yet it seems he finds himself often pinched , by the bitter ( i had almost said scurrilous ) reproaches he casts on mr. claud , which is very unbecoming the education and other noble qualities of that great man , whom for his book of frequent communion , i shall ever honour . and it is a thing much to be lamented , that he was taken off from these more useful labours , wherein he was engaged so much to the bettering this age , both in discovering the horrid corruption of the jesuits and other casuists , not only in their speculations about casuistical divinity , but in their hearing confessions , and giving easie absolutions , upon trifling penances , and granting absolutions before the penance was performed , and in representing to us the true spirit of holiness and devotion was in the primitive church . but on the other hand , as mr. claud leaves nothing unsaid in a method fully answerable to the excellence of that truth he defends ; so he answers these reproaches in a way worthy of himself , or rather of christ and the gospel . if those excellent writings were in english , i should need to say nothing to a point that has been so canvassed ; but till some oblige this nation by translating them , i shall say so much on this head , as i hope shall be sufficient to convince every body of the emptiness , weakness and folly of this plea. and first of all , in a matter of fact concerning a change made in the belief of the church , the only certain method of enquiry , is , to consider the doctrine of the church in former ages ; and to compare that with what is now received ; and if we see a difference between these , we are sure there has been a change ; though we are not able to shew by what steps it was made ; nay , though we could not so much as make it appear probable that such a change could be made . to instance this in a plain case , of the change of the english language since the days of william the conqueror ; that there has no such swarm of foreigners broke in upon this island , as might change our language : one may then argue thus ; every one speaks the language he heard his parents , his nurses , and others about him speak , when he was a child ; and this he continues to speak all his life , and his children speak as they heard him speak : upon which , a man of wit and phancy might say a great many things , to shew it impossible any such change should ever have been made , as that we now should speak so as not to understand what was said five or six hundred years ago . yet if i find chaucer , or any much ancienter book , so written , that i can hardly make a shift to understand it , from thence , without any further reasoning how this could be brought about , i naturally must conclude our language is altered . and if any man should be so impertinent , as to argue , that could not be ; for children speak as their nurses and parents taught them , i could hardly answer him in patience ; but must tell him it is altered , without more ado . if a child were amused with such pretended impossibilities , i would tell him , that strangers coming among us , and our travelling to parts beyond the seas , made us acquainted with other languages ; and englishmen finding in other tongues , some words and phrases , which they judged more proper than any they had , being also fond of new words , there was an insensible change made in every age , which , after five or six ages , is more discernible . just so , if i find most of all the fathers either delivering their opinions clearly in this matter , against the doctrine of the roman church , or saying things utterly inconsistent with it , i am sure there has been a change made ; though i could not shew either the whole progress of it , or so much as a probable account how it could be done . if men were as machines or necessary agents , a certain account might be given of all the events in all ages ; but there are such strange labyrinths in the minds of men , that none can trace them by any rational computation of what is likely . there is also such a diversity between men and men , between ages and ages , that he should make very false accounts , that from the tempers and dispositions of men in this age , should conclude what were possible or impossible many years ago . in this age , in which printing gives notice of all things so easily and speedily , and by the laying of stages for the quick and cheap conveying pacquers , and the publishing mercuries , gazets , and iournals , and the education of almost all persons to read and write letters , and the curiosity by which all people are whetted to enquire into every thing ; the state of mankind is quite altered from what it was before , when few could read or write , but clergy-men ; so that they must be the notaries of all courts ; who continue from that , to be called clerks to this day ; and that some crimes , otherwise capital , were not punished with death , if the guilty person could but read . when people were so ignorant of what was doing about them , when neither printing , nor stages for pacquets , were in being , at least in europe , and when men were fast asleep in their business , without amusing themselves what was doing about them in the world ; it is the most unjust and unreasonable thing in nature , to imagine , that such things as are now next to impossible , were not then not only possible , but easie . so that all such calculations of impossibilities from the state and temper of this age , when applied to the ages before ours , is the most fallacious way of reckoning that can be . for instance , how improbable , or next to impossible , is this following story , that the bishops of the imperial city of the roman empire , whose first true worth , together with the greatness of that city , which was the head and metropolis of the roman empire , got them much esteem and credit in the world , should from small and low beginnings , have crept up to such a height of power , that they were looked on as the head of all power , both civil and spiritual ; and that as they overthrew all other ecclesiastical jurisdiction , the bishops of that see engrossing it to themselves : so they were masters of almost all the crowns of europe , and could change governments , raise up , and assist new pretenders , call up , by the preachings of some poor beggarly friars , vast armies , without pay , and send them whither they pleased : that they could draw in all the treasure and riches of europe to themselves ; that they brought princes to lie thus at their feet , to suffer all the clergy , who had a great interest in their dominions , by the vast endowments of churches and abbeys , beside the power they had in all families and consciences , to be the sworn subjects of these bishops , and to be exempted from appearing in secular courts , how criminal soever they were ? that all this should be thus brought about without the expence of any vast treasure , or the prevailing force of a conquering army , meerly by a few tricks , that were artificially managed , of the belief of purgatory , the power of absolving , and granting indulgences , and the opinion of their being st. peter's successors , and christ's vicars on earth . and that all this while when on these false colours of impostures in religion , those designs were carried on , the popes were men of the most lewd and flagitious lives possible ; and those who served them in their designs , were become the scandal and scorn of christendom ; and yet in all these attempts , they prevailed for above seven or eight ages . now if any man will go about to prove this impossible , and that princes were always jealous of their authority and their lives , people always loved their money and quiet , bishops always loved their jurisdiction , and all men when they see designs carried on with colours of religion , by men , who in the most publick and notorious instances , shew they have none at all , do suspect a cheat , and are not to be wheedled . therefore all this must be but a fable and a forgery , to make the popes and their clergy odious . will not all men laugh at such a person , that against the faith of all history , and the authority of all records , will deny a thing that was set up over all europe for many ages ? if then all this change in a matter that was temporal , against which the secular interests of all men did oppose themselves , was yet successful , and prevailed ; how can any man think it unreasonable , that a speculative opinion might have been brought into the church , by such arts , and so many degrees , that the traces of the change should be lost ? we find there have been many other changes in sacred things , which will seem no less strange and incredible ; but that we are assured whatsoever really has been , may be : and if things full as unaccountable have been brought about , it is absurd to deny , that other things might not have run the same fate . it is known , that all people are more uneasie to changes in things that are visible , and known to every body , than in things that are speculative , and abstracted , and known and considered but by a few : they are likewise more unwilling to part with things they are in possession of , and reckon their rights , than to suffer new opinions to be brought in among them ; and let their religion swell by additions . for it is undoubted that it is much more easie to imagine how a new opinion should be introduced , than how an ancient practice and right should be taken away . if then it be apparent , that there have been great changes made in the most visible and sensible parts of religious worship , by taking away some of the most ancient customs and rights of the people , over the whole western church , then it cannot be thought incredible , that a new speculative opinion might have by degrees been brought in . this i shall instance in a few particulars . the receiving the chalice in the sacrament , was an ancient constant custom , to which all the people had been long used ; and one may very reasonably on this hypothesis , argue , that could not be ; for would the people , especially in dark ages , have suffered the cup of the blood of christ to be taken from them , if they had not known that it had been taken from their fathers ? upon which it is easie to conceive how many speculative impossibilities an ingenious man may devise ; and yet we know they were got to part with it by degrees ; first , the bread was given dipt in the cup , for an age or two ; and then the people judged they had both together : this step being made , it was easie afterwards to give them the bread undipt , and so the chalice was taken away quite from the laity , without any great opposition , except what was made in bohemia . next to this , let us consider how naturally all men are apt to be fond of their children , and not to suffer any thing to be denied them , by which they conceive they are advantaged : upon which one may reckon , once we are sure it was the universally received custom , for many ages , over the whole latine church , that all children had the eucharist given them immediately after they were baptized . and the rubrick of the roman missal ordered , they should not be suffered to suck after they were baptized , before they had the eucharist given them , except in in cases of necessity . this order is believed to be a work of the eleventh century ; so lately was this thought necessary in the roman church . all men know how careful most parents , even such as have not much religion themselves , are , that nothing be wanting about their children ; and it was thought simply necessary to salvation , that all persons had the eucharist . how many imaginary difficulties may one imagine might have obstructed the changing this custom ? one would expect to hear of tumults and stirs , and an universal conspiracy of all men to save this right of their children ? yet hugo de sancto victore tells us , how it was wearing out in his time ; and we find not the least opposition made to the taking it away . a third thing , to which it is not easie to apprehend how the vulgar should have consented , was , the denying them that right of nature and nations , that every body should worship god in a known tongue . in this island , the saxons had the liturgy in their vulgar tongue ; and so it was also over all the world : and from this might not one very justly reckon up many high improbabilities , to demonstrate the setting up the worship in an unknown tongue , could never be brought about , and yet we know it was done . in end , i shall name only one other particular , which seems very hard to be got changed , which yet we are sure was changed ; this was , the popular elections of the bishops and clergy , which , as is past dispute , were once in the hands of the people ; and yet they were got to part with them , and that at a time when church-preferments were raised very high in all secular advantages ; so that it may seem strange , they should then have been wrought upon to let go a thing , which all men are naturally inclined to desire an interest in ; and so much the more , if the dignity or riches of the function be very considerable ; and yet though we meet in church-history many accounts of tumults that were in those elections , while they were in the peoples hands ; yet i remember of no tumults made to keep them , when they were taken out of their hands . and now i leave it to every reader 's conscience , if he is not perswaded by all the conjectures he can make of mankind , that it is more hard to conceive , how these things , that have been named , of which the people had clear possession , were struck out , than that a speculative opinion , how absurd soever , was brought in , especially in such ages as these were , in which it was done . this leads me to the next thing , which is , to make some reflections on those ages , in which this doctrine crept into the church . as long as the miraculous effusion of the holy ghost continued in the church , the simplicity of those that preached the gospel , was no small confirmation of that authority that accompanied them ; so that it was more for the honour of the gospel , that there were no great scholars or disputants to promote it : but when that ceased , it was necessary the christian religion should be advanced by such rational means as are suitable to the soul of man : if it had begun only upon such a foundation , men would not have given it a hearing ; but the miracles which were at first wrought , having sufficiently alarm'd the world , so that by them men were inclined to hearken to it : then it was to be tried by those rules of truth and goodness , which lie engraven on all mens souls . and therefore it was necessary , those who defended it , should both understand it well , and likewise know all the secrets of heathenism , and of the greek philosophy . a knowledge in these being thus necessary , god raised up among the philosophers divers great persons , such as iustin , clement , origen , and many others , whose minds being enlightned with the knowledge of the gospel , as well as endued with all other humane learning , they were great supports to the christian religion . afterwards many heresies being broached about the mysteries of the faith , chiefly those that relate to the son of god , and his incarnation , upon which followed long contests : for managing these , a full understanding of scripture was also necessary ; and that set all persons mightily to the study of the scriptures . but it is not to be denied , great corruptions did quickly break in , when the persecutions were over ; and the church abounded in peace and plenty ; not but that the doctrine was preserved pure long after that : there were also many shining lights , and great fathers , in that and in the following age ; yet from the fathers of these two ages , and from the great disorders were in some of their councils , as in the case of athanasius , and the second ephesin council , we may clearly see how much they were degenerating from the primitive purity . many contests were about the precedency of their sees , great ambition and contention appeared in their synods , which made nazianzen hate and shun them , expecting no good from them . these and such like things brought very heavy judgments and plagues on the church , and the whole roman empire , in the fifth century : for vast swarms of armies out of germany and the northern nations brake in upon the western empire , and by a long succession of new invaders all was sackt and ruined . the goths were followed by the vandals , the alains , the gepides , the franks , the sweves , the huns , and , in the end , the lombards . those nations were for the greatest part arrians , but all were barbarous and rude ; and their hatred of the faith , joyned to the barbarity of their tempers , set them with a strange fury on destroying the most sacred things . and to that we owe the loss of most of the primitive writings , and of all the authentical records of the first persecutions ; scarce any thing remaining , but what eusebius had before gathered together out of a former destruction was made of such things under dioclesian . nor did the glory of the eastern empire long survive the western , that fell before these invaders : but in europe , by the impression of the bulgars ; and in asia , by the conquests made , first by the saracens , then by the turks , their greatness was soon broken ; though it lasted longer under that oppressed condition , than the other had done . thus was both the greek and the latin church brought under sad oppression and much misery . and every body knows , that the natural effect that state of life brings over the greatest minds , when there is no hope of getting from under it , is to take them off from study and learning ; and indeed to subdue their spirits as well as their bodies . and so it proved , for after that , an ignorance and dulness did to that degree overspread all europe , that it is scarce to be expressed . i do not deny , but there might be some few instances of considerable men , giving an allowance for the time they lived in . for the laity , they were bred up to think of nothing but to handle their arms , very few could so much as read ; and the clergy were not much better ; read they could , but in many that was all ; a corrupt latin they understood , which continued to be the vulgar tongue in italy a great while after : they had heard of greek and hebrew , but understood them as little as we do the mexican or peruvian tongue . they had scarce any knowledge of the greek fathers ; a few very ill translations of some of them was all they had . the latin fathers were read by some of the more learned , but for any distinct understanding of scriptures , or the natures of things , god knows they had it not . i design a short discourse , and therefore shall not stay to make this out , which every body that has but looked a little on the writings of these ages , knows to be true . another effect of their ignorance was , that they were easily imposed on by suppostitious writings , that went under the names of the fathers , but were none of theirs . gelasius threw out a great many that were breaking out in his time ; but the trade was prosperous , and went on to that height , that it cost the criticks of these two last ages much pains to distinguish true from forged , and the genuine from what was interpolated . and indeed the popes were much beholden to the forgery of the decretal epistles , in which work a great many epistles were published by isidore in the eighth century , as the epistles of the popes of the first four centuries after christ : by which they were represented as giving orders , and making definitions over the whole church in a full form , and with the stile of an absolute authority . these were rejected by many , but mightily supported by all the flatterers of the court of rome : so that they were in the end , after some contest , generally received , and held presidents to the succeeding popes , who wrote very skilfully after that copy . many other forgeries were also much cherished , which i shall instance only in one other particular , that relates to what is now in my eye . a sermon of arnold of bonneval ( which is now proved clearly to be his ) was published in st. cyprian's works as his sermon of the supper of our lord , though this arnold lived about nine hundred years after him . now such a sermon being generally read as st. cyprian's , no wonder it gave that doctrine of transubstantiation great credit . these writings are now discovered to be such forgeries , that all considering men of their own church are ashamed of them , and disown them . so do baronius and bellarmin the decretals ; and sirmondus , launnoy , and many more , reject other forgeries . yet here is a high pitch of impudence that most of all their writers of controversie are guilty of , to cite these very writings ( which are now universally agreed to be spurious ) still under those great names , which forgery gave them . as the author of that letter about transubstantiation , cites a passage from st. cyprian's sermon de coena domini , though it is agreed to by sixtus senensis , possevin , bellarmin , raynaud , and labbe , to be none of his ; and the publishers of the office of the sacrament , in the table at the end of it , acknowledge it was written by arnold of bonneval , a friend of st. bernard's . after these authorities it is indeed strange , that such sophisticated stuff should be over and over again offered to us . and it was no wonder , such forgeries were generally received , when that church gave them such authority , as to take many lessons out of the most spurious legends and put them in their breviary . of all these dark ages , the tenth was certainly the midnight of the church : we have scarce any writer for that whole age , so that it is generally called the iron age , an age of darkness and wickedness ; and therefore a very fit time for superstition and errour to work in . and thence we may well infer , that in ages that were so exceeding ignorant , and in which men scarce thought of religion , it was no hard thing to get any errour received and established . but this is not all . these were also ages of great licentiousness and disorder ; for though the barbarous nations were afterwards converted to the orthodox faith , ( though by the way it were easie to shew these conversions had nothing like the first conversion of the world to christianity in them ) yet their barbarity remained with them , and the church-men became so corrupt and vicious , that they could not have a face to reprove them for those vices of which themselves were scandalously guilty . from the sixth century downward what a race of men have the popes been ? chiefly in the ninth and tenth century . and indeed any religion that remained in the world had so retired into cloysters and monasteries , that very little of it remained . these houses were seminaries of some devotion , while they were poor and busied at work , according to their first foundation ; but when they were well endowed , and became rich , they grew a scandal to all christendom . all the primitive discipline was laid down , children were put into the highest preferments of the church , and simony over-run the church . these are matters of fact , that cannot be so much as questioned , nor should i , if put to prove them , seek authorities for them any where else than in baronius ; who , for all his design to serve the interest of that church , yet could not prevaricate so far , as to conceal things that are so openly and uncontestedly true . now , from the darkness and corruption of these ages , i presume to offer some things to the readers consideration . first , ignorance always inclines people to be very easie to trust those , in whom they have confidence ; for being either unwilling to trouble themselves with painful and sollicitous enquiries , or unable to make them , they take things on trust , without any care to search into them ▪ but this general maxim must needs be much more certain , when subjection to the church , and the belief of every thing established , was made a very substantial part of religion , or rather that alone which might compense all other defects . secondly , ignorance naturally inclines people to superstition , to be soon wrought on , and easily amused , to be full of fears , and easie to submit to any thing that may any way overcome these fears . a right sense of god and divine matters , makes one have such a taste of religion , that he is not at all subject to this distemper , or rather monster , begotten by the unnatural commixture of some fear of god and love of sin , both being disordered by much ignorance ; hence sprang most of the idolatrous rites of heathenism , and all people so tempered are fit for the like humour to work upon . thirdly , the interests of churchmen , led them mightily to study the setting this opinion on foot . this alone set them as high , as mortal men could be , and made them appear a most sacred sort of a creature . all the wonders of the prophets and apostles were but sorry matters to it : what was moses calling fo● manna from heaven and water fromm the rock ? elijah's bringing sometimes fire and sometimes rain from heaven ? what ●●re the apostles raising the dead , giving sight to the blind , and feet to the lanie ? to the annihilating the substance of bread and wine , and bringing in their stead , not some other common matter , but the flesh and blood of the ever-blessed jesus . he who could do this , no wonder he were reverenced , enriched , secure from all danger , exempt from all civil jurisdiction , and cherished with all imaginable respect and kindness . so that it is no strange thing , that churchmen were much inclined to favour an opinion , that favoured their interests so much . fourthly , the churchmen of these ages were very likely to be easily drawn to anything , which might so much advance their designs ; that were grown very high , especially from the days of pope gregory the great . they were struggling with the civil powers for dominion , and pursued that for many years , and spared neither labour nor the lives of men to attain it . and it is not to be thought , but men who did prodigally throw away many thousands in a quarrel , would without very nice disputing , cherish any opinion that might contribute toward that end . and as this was of great use to them , so they very much needed both it , and all such like shifts ; for they had none of that sublime sanctity , nor high learning , or lofty eloquence , which former churchmen had , and by which they had acquired great esteem in the world. now the churchmen in these days , having a great mind to preserve or rather to encrease that esteem ; but wanting those qualities which on a reasonable account might have acquired it , or preserved it , must needs think of somewhat else to do it by ; and so found out many arts for it , such as the belief of purgatory , the priestly absolution upon confession , together with the reserved cases , indulgences , and the pope's power of taking souls out of purgatory . and if it be not full as unreasonable , to think the pope should be believed vested with a power of pardoning sin , and redeeming from purgatory , as that transubstantiation should have been received , let any man judge . fifthly , there was such a vast number of agents and emissaries sent from rome , to all the parts of europe , to carry on their designs , that we can hardly think it possible any thing could have withstood them . in such ages , by giving some terrible name to any thing , it was presently disgraced with the vulgar ; a clear instance of this was the fate of the married clergy . gregory the seventh , who as cardinal benno ( who knew him ) represents him , was one of the worst men that ever was born , and first set on foot the pope's pretensions to the civil authority , and the power of deposing princes , and putting others in their places ; did prosecute the married clergy with great vehemency . this he could not do on any pious or chaste account , being so vile a man as he was : but being resolved to bring all princes to depend on him , there was no way so like to attain that , as to have all the clergy absolutely subject to him : this could not be hoped for , while they were married , and that the princes and several states of europe had such a pawn of their fidelity , as their wives and children ; therefore because the persons of the clergy were accounted sacred , and liable to no punishment , that there might be nothing so nearly related to them , wherein they might be punished , as their wives and children , he drave this furiously on ; and , to give them some ill-favoured name , called them nicolaitans , which are represented in the revelation so vile and odious . this was the most unjust thing in the world : they might have called them pharisees or sadducees as well , for all the ancient writers tell us , that nicolas having a beautiful wife was jealous , and the apostles challenging him of it , he said , he was so far from ▪ it ; that he was willing to make her common , and thence some set up the community of wives , and were from him called the nicolaitans . but because women and marriage were in the case , and it was a hateful word , this was the name by which the married clergy were every where made so odious ; and though it was much the interest of princes to have had the marriage of the clergy to be left free , yet the popes were too hard for them in it . thus were the agents of rome able to prevail in every thing they set then selves to . so the opposers of this doctrine were called by the hateful names of stercoranists and panites . sixthly , when all religion was placed in externals , and splendid rites and ceremonies came to be generally looked on as the whole business of religion , peoples minds were by that much disposed to receive any thing , that might introduce external pomp and grandeur into their churches ; being willing to make up in an outward appearance of worshipping the person of christ , what was wanting in their obedience to his gospel . and now i appeal to any honest man , if upon the suppositions i have laid down , it be at all an unaccountable thing , that a great company of ignorant and debauched clergymen , should set themselves to cherish and advance a belief , which would redeem them from all the infamy their other vices were ready to bring upon them ; and they resolving on it , if it was hard for them , especially in a course of some ages , to get an ignorant , credulous , superstitious , and corrupt multitude , to receive it without much noise or ado . i believe no man will deny , but upon these suppositions the thing was very like to succeed . now that all these suppositions are true ( to wit ) that both clergy and laity in those ages , chiefly in the ninth , tenth , and eleventh centuries , were ignorant , and vicious to the height ; is a thing so generally known , and so universally confessed by all their own historians , that i hardly think any man will have brow enough to deny it . but there are many other things , which will also shew how possible , nay feasible such a change may be . first , this having never been condemned by a formal decision in any former age , it was more easie to get it brought in ; for no council or father could condemn or write against any errour , but that which was maintained or abetted by some man , or company of men , in or before their time . since then this had not been broached in the former ages , the promoters of it had this advantage , that no former decision had been made against them ; for none ever thought of condemning any heresie before it had a being . secondly , this errour did in the outward sound agree with the words of the institution , and the forms used in the former liturgies , in which the elements were said to be changed into the true and undefiled body of christ. a doctrine then that seemed to establish nothing contrary to the ancient liturgies , might easily have been received , in an age , in which the outward sound and appearance was all they looked to . thirdly , the passage from the believing any thing in general , with an indistinct and confused apprehension , to any particular way of explaining it , is not at all hard to be conceived , especially in an age , that likes every thing the better , the more mysterious it seem . in the preceding ages , it was in general received , that christ was in the sacrament , and that by the consecration the elements were changed into his body and blood. and although many of the fathers did very formally explain in what sense christ was present , and the elements were changed ; yet there having been no occasion given to the church , to make any formal decision about the manner of it , every one thought he was left at liberty to explain it as he pleased . and we may very reasonably suppose , that many did not explain it at all , especially in these ages , in which there was scarce any preaching or instructing the people . by this means the people did believe christ was in the sacrament , and that the elements were changed into his body and blood , without troubling themselves to examine how it was , whether spiritually or corporally . things being brought to this , in these ages , by the carelesness of the clergy , the people were by that , sufficiently disposed to believe any particular manner of that presence , or change , their pastors might offer to them . fourthly , there being no visible change made in any part of the worship , when this doctrine was first brought in , it was easie to innovate , in these ages , in which people looked only at things that were visible and sensible : had they brought in the adoration , processions , or other consequences of this doctrine along with it , it was like to have made more noise ; for people are apt to be startled when they see any notable change in their worship : but this belief was first infused in the people , and berengarius was condemned . the council of lateran had also made the decree about it , before ever there were any of those signal alterations attempted . and after that was done , then did honorius decree the adoration ; ( greg. decret . lib. . tit . . cap. . ) and urban the fourth , upon some pretended visions of eve , iulian , and isabella , did appoint the feast of the body of christ , called now generally , the feast of god , or corpus christi feast , which was confirmed by pope clement the fifth , ( lib. . tit . . ) in the council of vienna ; and ever since that time they have been endeavouring by all the devices possible , to encrease the devotion of the people to the host. so that mr. arnaud in many places acknowledges they are most gross idolaters if their doctrine be not true ; which i desire may be well considered , since it is the opinion of one of the most considering and wisest , and most learned persons of that communion , who has his whole life set his thoughts chiefly to the examining of this sacrament , and knows as well as any man alive , what is the real sense of the worshippers in that church . but to return to that i am about , it is very unreasonable to think that the people in those dark ages , did concern themselves in the speculative opinions were among divines , so that the vulgar could not busie themselves about it , but when this opinion was decreed , and generally received and infused in the laity , for almost one age together , then we need not wonder to see notable alterations following upon it , in their worship , without any opposition or contest ; for it was very reasonable such consequences should have followed such a doctrine . but that before that time there was no adoration of the elements , is a thing so clear , that it is impudence to deny it ; there was no prostration of the body , or kneeling to be made , either on lords days , or all the time between easter and pentecost , by the twentieth canon of the council of nice . none of the ancient liturgies do so much as mention it ; but the contrary is plainly insinuated by s. cyril of ierusalem . none of that great number of writers about divine offices , that lived in the seventh , eighth , ninth , and tenth centuries , published by hittorpius , so much as mention it : though they be very particular in giving us an account of the most inconsiderable parts of the divine offices , and of all the circumstances of them . honorius when he first decreed it , does not alledge presidents for it ; but commands the priests to tell the people to do it ; whereas , if it had been appointed before , he must rather have commanded the priests to have told the people of their sacrilegious contempt of the body of christ , notwithstanding the former laws and practice of the church : but it is apparent his way of enjoyning it , is in the style of one that commands a new thing , and not that sets on the execution of what was sormerly used : yet this was more warily appointed by honorius , who enjoyned only an inclination of the head to the sacrament ; but it was set up bare-faced by his successor gregory the ninth , who appointed ( as the historians tell us , ( naucler . ad an . . krantz . sex . lib. . cap. . ) though it be not among his decretals ) a bell to be rung , to give notice at the consecration and elevation , that all who heard it , might kneel , and join their hands in adoring the host. so that any passages of the fathers that speak of adoration or veneration to the sacrament , must either be understood of the inward adoration the communicant offers up to god the father , and his blessed son , in the commemoration of so great a mystery of love , as appeared in his death , then represented and remembred . or these words are to be taken in a large sense , and so we find , they usually called the gospels , their bishops , baptism , the pascha , and almost all other sacred things , venerable . and thus from many particulars it is apparent , that the bringing in the doctrine of transubstantiation is no unaccountable thing . but i shall pursue this yet further , for the reader 's full satisfaction , and shew the steps by which this doctrine was introduced . we find in the church of corinth the receiving the sacrament was looked on , but as a common entertainment , and was gone about without great care or devotion , which s. paul charges severely on them ; and tells them what heavy judgments had already fallen on them , for such abuses , and that heavier ones might be yet looked for , since they were guilty of the body and blood of the lord , by their unworthy receiving . upon this the whole christian church was set to consider , in very good earnest , how to prepare themselves aright for so holy an action ; and the receiving the sacrament , as it was the greatest symbol of the love of christians , so it was the end of all penitence , that was enjoyned for publick or private sins , but chiefly for apostacy , or the denying the faith , and complying with idolatry in the times of persecution . therefore the fathers considering both the words of the institution , and s. paul's epistle to the corinthians , did study mightily to awaken all to great preparation and devotion , when they received the sacrament . for all the primitive devotion about the sacrament , was only in order to the receiving it ; and that modern worship of the church of rome , of going to hear mass without receiving , was a thing so little understood by them , that as none were suffered to be present in the action of the mysteries , but those who were qualified to receive ; so if any such had gone out of the church without participating , ( apost . cnn. and can. antioch ) they were to be separated from the communion of the church , as the authors of disorder in it . upon this subject the fathers employed all their eloquence ; and no wonder , if we consider that it is such a commemoration of the death of christ as does really communicate to the worthy receiver his crucified body , and his blood that was shed , ( mark , not his glorified body , as it is now in heaven ) which is the fountain and channel of all other blessings , but is only given to such , as being prepared according to the rules of the gospel , sincerely believe all the mysteries of faith , and live suitably to their belief , both the advantages of worthy receiving , and the danger of unworthy receiving being so great , it was necessary for them to make use of all the faeulties they had , either for awakening reverence and fear , that the contemptible elements of bread and wine , might not bring a cheapness and disesteem upon these holy mysteries , or for perswading their communicants to all serious and due preparation , upon so great an occasion . this being then allowed , it were no strange thing , though in their sermons , or other devout treatises , they should run out to meditations that need to be mollified with that allowance that must be given to all panegyricks or perswasives : where many things are always said , that if right understood , have nothing in them to startle any body ; but if every phrase be examined grammatically , there would be many things found in all such discourses , that would look very hideously . is it not ordinary in all the festivities of the church , as s. austin observed on this very occasion , to say , this day christ was born , or died , or rose again in ? and yet that must not be taken literally . beside , when we hear or read any expressions that sound high or big , we are to consider the ordinary stile of him that uses these expressions ; for if upon all other occasions he be apt to rise high in his figures , we may the less wonder at some excesles of his stile . if then such an orator as s. chrysostome was , who expatiates on all subjects , in all the delighting varieties of a fertile phancy , should on so great a subject , display all the beauties of that ravishing art in which he was so great a master , what wonder is it ? therefore great allowances must be made in such a case . further , we must also consider the tempers of those to whom any discourse is addressed . many things must be said in another manner to work on novices , or weak persons , than were fit or needful for men of riper and stronger understandings . he would take very ill measures , that would judge of the future state , by these discourses in which the sense of that is infused in younger or weaker capacities ; therefore though in some catechisms that were calculated for the understandings of children and novices , such as s. cyril's , there be some high expressions used , it is no strange thing ; for naturally all men on such occasions , use the highest and biggest words they can invent . but we ought also to consider , what persons have chiefly in their eye , when they speak to any point . for all men , especially when their fancies are inflamed with much servor , are apt to look only to one thing at once ; and if a visible danger appear of one side , and none at all on the other , then it is natural for every one to exceed on that side , where there is no danger . so that the hazard of a contempt of the sacrament being much and justly in their eye , and they having no cause to apprehend any danger on the otherside , of excessive adoring or magnifying it : no wonder , if in some of their discourses , an immoderate use of the counterpoise , had inclined them to say many things of the sacrament , that require a fair and can did interpretation . yet after all this , they say no more , but that in the sacrament they did truly and really communicate on the body and blood of christ ; which we also receive and believe . and in many other treatises , when they are in colder blood , examining things , they use such expressions and expositions of this , as no way favour the belief of transubstantiation ; of which we have given some account in a former paper . but though that were not so formally done , and their writings were full of passages that needed great allowances , it were no more than what the fathers that wrote against the arrians , confess the fathers before the council of nice , were guilty of ; who writing against sabellius , with too much veliemence , did run to the opposite extream . so many of s. ciril's passages against nestorius , were thought to favour eutychianism . so also theodoret , and two others , writing against the entychians , did run to such excesses , as drew upon them the condemnation of the fifth general council . the first time we find any contestor canvassing about the sacrament , was in the controversie about images , in the eighth century , that the council of constantinople , in the condenming of images , declared , there was no other image of christ to be received , but the blessed sacrament ; in which , the substance of bread and wine was the image of the body and blood of christ ; making a difference between that which is christs body by nature , and the sacrament , which is his body by institution . now it is to be considered , that whatever may be pretended of the violence of the greek emperors over-ruling that council in the matter of condemning images ; yet there having been no contest at all about the sacrament , we cannot in reason think they would have brought it into the dispute , if they had not known these two things were the received doctrine of the church : the one , that in the sacrament , the substance of bread and wine did remain ; the other , that the sacrament was the image or figure of christ ; and from thence they acknowledged , all images were not to be rejected , but denied any other images besides that in the sacrament . now the second council of nice , being resolved to quarrel with them as much as was possible , do not at all condemn them for that which is the chief testimony for us ( to wit ) that the sacrament was still the substance of bread and wine ; and damascene , the zealous defender of images , clearly insinuates his believing the substance of bread and wine remained , and did nourish our bodies . let it be therefore considered , that when that council of nice was in all the bitterness imaginable canvassing every word of the council of constantinople , they never once blame them for saying , the substance of bread and wine was in the sacrament . it is true , they condemned them for saying the sacrament was the image of christ , denying that any of the fathers had called it so ; alledging that the symboles were called antit pes by the fathers , only before the consecration , and not after ; in which they followed damascene , ( de fid. orth . lib. . cap. . ) who had fallen in the same errour before them . but this is so manifest a mistake in matter of fact , that it gives a just reason for rejecting the authority of that council , were there no more to be said against it : for this was either very gross ignorance , or effronted impudence , since in above twenty fathers that were before them , the sacrament is called the figure and antitype of christ's body ; and at the same time , that damascene , who was then looked on as the great light of the east , did condemn the calling the sacrament , the figure of christ's body . the venerable bede , ( bed. in psal. . & mark . ) that was looked on as the great light of the west , did according to the stile of the primitive church , and in s. austin's words , call it , the figure of christ's body . i shall not trace the other forgeries and follies of that pretended general council , because i know a full account of them is expected from a better pen ; only in this particular i must desire the reader to take notice , that the council of constantinople did not innovate any thing in the doctrine about the sacrament , and did use it as an argument in the other controversie concerning images , without any design at all about the eucharist . but on the other hand , the second council of nice did innovate and reject a form of speech , which had been universally received in the church , before their time ; and being engaged with all possible spight against the council of constantinople , resolved to contradict every thing they had said , as much as could be : so that in this we ought to look on the council of constantinople , as delivering what was truly the tradition of the church , and on the second council of nice , as corrupting it . about thirty years after that council , paschase radbert abbot of corbie , wrote about the sacrament , and did formally assert the corporal presence , in the ninth century . the greatest patrons of this doctrine , such as bellarmin and sirmondus , both jesuites , confess , he was the first that did fully and to purpose explain the verity of christ's body and blood in the eucharist . and paschase himself , in his letter to his friend frudegard , regrates that he was so flow in believing and assenting to his doctrine ; and does also acknowledge , that by his book he had moved many to the understanding of that mystery ; and it is apparent by that letter , that not only frudegard , but others were scandalized at his book , for he writes , i have spoken of these things more fully , and more expresly , because i understand that some challenge me , that in the book i have published of the sacraments of christ , i have ascribed either more or some other thing than is consonant to truth to the words of our lord. of all the writers of that age , or near it , only one ( and his name we know not , the book being anonymous ) was of paschase's opinion . but we find all the great men of that age were of another mind , and did clearly assert , that in the sacrament , the substance of bread and wine remained , and did nourish our bodies as other meats do . these were rabanus maurus , archbishop of mentz , amalarius , archbishop of treves , or as others say , metz , heribald , bishop of auxerre , bertram , iohn scot erigena , walafridus strabo , florus and christian druthmar . and three of these set themselves on purpose to refute paschase . the anonymous writer that defends him , says , that raban did dispute at length against him in an epistle to abbot egilon , for saying it was that body that was born of the virgin , and was crucified , and raised again , that was daily offered for the life of the world. that is also condemned by raban in his penitential , cap. . who refers his reader to that epistle to abbor egilon . and for bertram , he was commanded by charles the bald , then emperor , to write upon that matter , which in the beginning of his book he promises to do , not trusting to his own wit , but following the steps of the holy fathers . it is also apparent by his book , that there were at that time different perswasions about the body of christ in the sacrament ; some believing it was there without any figure ; others saying , it was there in a figure and mystery . upon which he apprehended , there must needs follow a great schism . and let any read paschase's book , and after that bertram's , and if he have either honesty , or at least , shame remaining in him , he must see it was in all points the very same controversie that was canvassed then between them , and is now debated between the church of rome and us. now that raban and bertram were two of the greatest and most learned men of that age , cannot be denied : raban passes without contest amongst the first men of the age ; and for bertram , we need neither cite what trithemius says of him , nor what the disciples of s. austin , in the port-royal , have said to magnifie him , when they make use of him to establish the doctrine of the efficacy of grace . it is a sufficient evidence of the esteem he was in , that he was made choice of by the bishop of france , to defend the latin church against the greeks ; and upon two very important controversies that were moved in that age ; the one being about predestination and grace , the other , that which we have now before us , he , though a private monk , raised to no dignity , was commanded by the emperor to write of both these ; which no man can imagine had been done , if he had not been a man much 〈◊〉 and esteemed ; and way in which he writes , is solid and worthy of the reputation he ha 〈…〉 quired : he proves both from the words of institution , and from st. paul , that the sacrame●● was still bread and wine . he proves from s. austin , that these were mysteries and figures of christ's body and blood. and indeed considering that age , he was an extraordinary writer . the third that did write against paschase , was iohn scot , otherwise called erigena , who was likewise commanded to write about the sacrament , by that same emperor . he was undoubtedly the most learned and ingenious man of that age , as all our english historians tell us , chiefly william of malmsbury : he was in great esteem both with the emperor , and our great king alfred . ( lib. . de gest. reg. ) he was accounted a saint and a martyr ; his memory was celebrated by an anniversary on the tenth of november . he was also very learned in the greek , and other oriental tongues , which was a rare thing in that age. this erigena did formally refute paschase's opinion , and assert ours . it is true , his book is now lost , being years after burned by the c. of vercel ; but though the church of lyons does treat him very severely in their book against him , and fastens many strange opinions upon him , in which there are good grounds to think they did him wrong ; yet they no where challenge him for what he wrote about the sacrament ; which shews they did not condemn him for that ; though they speak of him with great animosity , because he had written against predestination and grace efficacious of it self , which they defended . it seems most probable that it was from his writings , that the homily read at easter by the saxons here in england , does so formally contradict the doctrine of transubstantiation . and now let the reader judge , if it be not clear that paschase did innovate the the doctrine of the church in this point , but was vigorously opposed by all the great men of that age. for the following age , all historians agree , it was an age of most prodigious ignorance and debauchery , and that amongst all sorts of people , none being more signally vicious than the clergy ; and of all the clergy , none so much as the popes , who were such a succession of monsters , that baronius cannot forbear making the saddest exclamations possible concerning their cruelties , debaucheries , and other vices : so that , then , if at any time , we may conclude all were asleep , and no wonder if the tares paschase had sown , did grow up ; and yet of the very few writings of the age that remain , the far greater number seem to favour the doctrine of bertram . but till berengarius his time , we hear nothing of any contest about the eucharist . so here were years spent in an absolute ignorance and forgetfulness of all divine things . about the middle of the th cent. bruno bishop of angiers , and berengarius , who was born in tours , but was arch-deacon and treasurer of the church of angiers , did openly teach , that christ was in the sacrament only in a figure . we hear little more of bruno ; but berengarius is spoken of by many historians , ( sigebert , platma , antonin . sabellicus , chron. mont. cassin . sigonius , vignier , guitmond , and chiefly william of malmsbury ) as a man of great learning and piety , and that when he was cited to the council at rome , before nicolaus the second , none could resist him ; that he had an excellent faculty of speaking , and was a man of great gravity ; that he was held a saint by many : he did abound in charity , humility , and good works , and was so chaste , that he would not look at a beutiful woman . and hildebert bishop of mans , whom s. bernard commends highly , made such an epitaph on him , that notwithstanding all the abatements we must make for poetry , yet no man could write so of an ordinary person . this berengarius wrote against the corporal presence , calling it a stupidity of paschase's and lanfrank's , who denied that the substance of bread and wine remained after consecration . he had many followers , as sigebert tells us , ( edit . antwerp . . ) and william of malmsbury , and matthew paris , tell us his doctrine had overspred all france . it were too long to shew with what impudent corrupting of antiquity those who wrote against him , did stuff up their books . divers councils were held against him , and he through fear , did frequently waver ; for when other arguments proved too weak to convince him , then the faggot , which is the sure and beloved argument of that church , prevailed on his fears ; so that he burnt his own book , and signed the condemnation of his own opinion at rome ; this he did , as lanfrank upbraids him , not for love of the truth , but for fear of death : which shews he had not that love of the truth , and constancy of mind he ought to have had . but it is no prejudice against the doctrine he taught , that he was a man not only subject to , but overcome by so great a temptation ; for the fear of death is natural to all men . and thus we see , that in the th century our doctrine was taught by the greatest writers of that time , so that it was then generally received , and not at all condemned either by pope or council . but in the th century , upon its being defended , it was condemned . can there be therefore any thing more plain , than that there was a change made , and that what in the one age was taught by a great number of writers , without any censure upon it , was in another age anathematized ? is there not then here a clear change ? and what has been done , was certainly possible , from whence we conclude with all the justice and reason in the world , that a change was not only possible , but was indeed made . and yet the many repeated condemnations of berengarius , shew , his doctrine was too deeply rooted in the minds of that age , to be very easily suppressed ; for to the end of the th century , the popes continued to condemn his opinions , even after his death . in the beginning of the th century , honorius of autun , who was a considerable man in that age , did clearly assert the doctrine of the sacraments nourishing our bodies , and is acknowledge by thomas waldensis , to have been a follower of berengarius his heresie . and about the th year of that age , that doctrine was embraced by great numbers in the south of france , who were from ther several teachers called petrobrusrans , henricians , waldenses , and from the countrey , where their number were greatest , albigenses ; whose confession , dated the year , bears , that the eating of the sacramental bread , was the eating of iesus christ in a figure ; iesus christ having said , as oft as ye do this , do it in remembrance of me . it were needless to engage in any long account of these people ; the writers of those times have studied to represent them in as hateful and odious characters , as it was possible for them to devise ; and we have very little remaining that they wrote . yet as the false witnesses that were suborned to lay heavy things to our blessed saviour . charge , could not agree among themselves ; so for all the spite with which these writers prosecute those poor innocents , there are such noble characters given , even by these enemies , of their piety , their simplicity , their patience , constancy , and other virtues ; that as the apologists for christianity , do justly glory in the testimonies pliny , lucian , tacitus , iosephus , and other declared enemies give ; so any that would study to redeem the memory of those multitudes , from the black aspersions of their foul-mouthed enemies , would find many passages among them to glory much in , on their behalf , which are much more to be considered than those virulent calumnies with which they labour to blot their memories : but neither the death of peter de bruis , who was burnt , nor all the following cruelties , that were as terrible as could be invented by all the fury of the court of rome , managed by the inquisitions of the dominicans , whose souls were then as black as their garments , could bear down or extinguish that light of the truth , in which what was wanting in learning , wit , or order , was fully made up in the simplicity of their manners , and the constancy of their sufferings . and it were easie to shew , that the two great things they were most persecuted for , were their refusing subjection to the see of rome , and their not believing the doctrine of the corporal presence ; nor were they confined to one corner of france only , but spred almost all europe over . in that age steven bishop in eduen is the first i ever find cited to have used the word transubstantiation , who expresly says , ( de sacram. altar . c. . ) that the oblation of bread and wine is transubstantiated into the body and blood of christ : some place him in the beginning , some in the middle of that age ; for there were two bishops of that see , both of the same name ; the one , anno . the other . and which of the two it was , is not certain ; but the master of the sentences was not so positive , and would not determine , ( lib. . dist . . ) whether christ was present formally , substantially , or some other way . but in the beginning of the th century , one amalric , or almaric , who was in great esteem for learning , did deny transubstantiation , saying , that the body of christ was no more in the consecrated bread , than in any other bread , or any other thing ; ( anno . c. . ) for which he was condemned in the th council of lateran , and his body , which was buried in paris , was taken up and burnt ; and then was it decreed , that the body and blood of christ were truly contained under the kinds ( or species ) of bread and wine , the bread being transubstantiated into the body , and the wine into the blood. all the while this doctrine was carried on , it was managed with all the ways possible , that might justly create a prejudice against them who set it forward ; for besides many ridiculous lying wonders , that were forged to make it more easily believed by a credulous and superstitious multitude , the church of rome did discover a cruelty and blood-thirstiness which no pen is able to set out to the full . what burnings and tortures , and what croissades as against infidels and mabumetans , did they set on against those poor innocent companies , whom they with an enraged , wolvish and barbarous bloodiness studied to destroy ? this was clearly contrary to the laws of humanity , the rules of the gospel , and the gentleness of christ : how then could such companies of wolves pretend to be the followers of the lamb ? in the primitive church , the bishops that had prosecuted the priscillanists before the emperor maximus , to the taking away their lives , were cast out of the communion of the church ; but now did these that still pretended to be christ's vicars , shew themselves in antichrist's colours , dipt in blood . if then any of that church that live among us , plead for pity , and the not executing the laws , and if they blame the severity of the statutes against themselves , let them do as becomes honest men , and without disguise , disown and condemn those barbarities , and them that were the promoters and pursuers of them ; for those practices have justly filled the world with fears and jealousies of them , that how meekly soever they may now whine under the pretended oppression of the laws , they would no sooner get into power , but that old leaven not being yet purged out of their hearts , they would again betake themselves to fire and faggot , as the unanswerable arguments of their church : and so they are only against persecution , because they are not able to persecute ; but were they the men that had the power , it would be again a catholick doctrine and practice : but when they frankly and candidly condemn those practices and principles , they will have somewhat to plead , which will in reason prevail more than all their little arts can do to procure them favour . it was this same council of lateran , that established both cruelty , persecution and rebellion into a law , appointing , that all princes should exterminate all hereticks , ( this is the mercy of that church which all may look for , if ever their power be equal to their malice ) and did decree , ( cap. . ) that if any temporal lord , being admonished by the church , did neglect to purge his lands , he should be first excommunicated , and if he continued a year in his contempt and contumacy , notice was to be given of it to the pope , who from that time forth should declare his vassals absolved from the fidelity they owed him , and expose his lands to be ivaded by catholicks , who might possess them without any contradiction , having exterminated the hereticks out of them , and so preserve them in the purity of the faith. this decree was made on the account of raimond count of tholouse , who favoured the albigenses , that were his subjects ; and being a peer of france according to the first constitution under hugo capet king of france , was such a prince in his own dominions , as the princes of germany now are . he was indeed the king of france his vassal ; but it is clear from the history of that time , that the king of france would not interpose in that business . yet the popes in this same council of lateran , did , by the advice of the council , give to simon montfort ( who was general of the croissade , that the pope sent against that prince ) all the lands that were taken from the count of tholouse . so that there was an invasion both of the count of tholouse , and of the king of france his rights . for if that prince had done any thing amiss , he was only accountable to the king , and the other peers of france . this decree of the council is published by dom. luc. dachery ; ( tom. . spic . and tom. . of the council , print . anno . p. . ) so that it is plain , that the pope got here a council to set up rebellion by authority , against the express rules of the gospel . this almost their whole church accounts a general council , a few only among us excepted , who know not how io approve themselves good subjects , if they own that a general council , which does so formally establish treasonable and seditious principles . for if it be true , that a general council making a definition in an article of faith , is to be followed and submitted to by all men , the same arguments will prove that in any controverted practical opinion , we ought not to trust our own reasons , but submit to the definition of the church ; for if in this question a private person shall rest on his own understanding of the scriptures , and reject this decree , why may he not as well in other things assume the same freedom ? it is true , the words of the decree seem only to relate to temporal lords that were under soveraign princes , such as the count of tholouse ; and therefore crowned heads need fear nothing from it : but though the decree runs chiefly against such , yet there are two clauses in it that go further ; one is in these words , saving always the right of the principal lord , provided he make no obstacle about it , nor cast in any impediment . whence it plainly follows , that if the soveraign , such as the king of france , in the case of tholouse , did make any obstacle , he forfeited his right . the other clause is in these words , the same law being nevertheless observed about those who have no principal lords . in which are clearly included all those soveraigns , who depend and hold their crowns immediately from god. now it is apparent , the design of these words so couched , was once to bring all soveraigns under that lash , before they were aware of it ; for had they named emperors and kings , they might reasonably have expected great opposition from them ; but insinuating it so covertly , it would pass the more easily : yet it is plain , nothing else can be meant , or was intended by it ; so that it is clear , that the th council of lateran , as it established transubstantiation , so did also decree both persecution and rebellion : therefore the reader may easily judge , what account is to be made of that council , and what security any state can have of those who adhere to it . our saviour when he states the opposition between the children of god , and the children of the devil , he gives this for the character of the latter , that they did the works of their father ; and these he mentions are lying and murdering : we have seen sufficient evidence of the murdering spirit which acted in that church , when this doctrine was set up . but to compleat that black character , let us look over to the council of constance , which decreed that bold violation of the command of christ , drink ye all of it ; by taking the chalice from the laity : and there we find perfidy , which is the basest and worst kind of lying , also established by law : for it was decreed by them , ( sess. . ) that all safe conducts notwithstanding , or by what bonds soever any prince had engaged himself , the council was no way prejudiced , and that the iudge competent might enquire into their errors ; and proceed otherwise duly against them , and punish them according to iustice , if they stubbornly refuse to retract their errours , although trusting to their safe conduct , they had come to the place of iudgment , and had not come without it ; and declare , that whoever had promised any such thing to them , having done what in him lay , was under no further obligation . upon which , sigismund broke his faith to iohn hus and ierome of prague , and they were burnt . so that their church , having in general councils decreed both perfidy and cruelty , it is casie to infer by what spirit they are acted , and whose works they did . if then they did the works of the devil , who was a liar and murderer from the beginning , they cannot be looked on as the children of god , but as the children of the devil . if this seem too severe , it is nothing but what the force of truth draws from me , being the furthest in the world from that uncharitable temper of aggravating things beyong what is just ; but the truth must be heard , and the lamb of god could call the scribes and pharisees , a generation of vipers and children of the devil . therefore if a church be so notoriously guilty of the most infamous violation of all the laws of humanity , and the security which a publick faith must needs give , none is to be blamed for laying open and exposing such a society to the just censure of all impartial persons , that so every one may see what a hazard his soul runs by engaging in the communion of a church that is so foully guilty : for these were not personal failings , but were the decrees of an authority which must be acknowledged by them infallible , if they be true to their own principles . so that if they receive these as general councils , i know not how they can clear all that communion from being involved in the guilt of what they decreed . thus far we hope it hath been made evident enough , that there are no impossibilities in such a change of the doctrine of the church about this sacrament , as they imagine . and that all these are but the effects of wit and fancy , and vanish into nothing when closely canvassed . i have not dwelt so long on every step of the history i have vouched , as was necessary , designing to be as short as was possible , and because these things have been at full length set down by others , and particularly in that great and learned work of albertin a french minister concerning this sacrament ; in which the doctrines of the primitive church , and the steps of the change that was made , are so laid open , that no man has yet so much as attempted the answering him : and those matters of fact are so uncontestedly true , that there can be little debate about them , but what may be very soon cleared , and i am ready to make all good to a tittle when any shall put me to it . it being apparent then , that the church of rome has usurped an undue and unjust authority over the other states and nations of christendom , and has made use of this dominion to introduce many great corruptions both in the faith , the worship , and government of the church ; nothing remains but to say a little to justify this churches reforming these abuses . and , first , i suppose it will be granted , that a national church may judge a doctrine to be heretical , when its opposition to the scripture , reason , and the primitive doctrine is apparent : for in that case the bishops and pastors being to feed and instruct the church , they must do it according to their consciences , otherwise how can they discharge the trust , god and the church commit to their charge ? and thus all the ancient hereticks , such as samosatenus , arrius , pelagius , and a great many more were first condemned in provincial councils . secondly , if such heresies be spread in places round about , the bishops of every church ought to do what they can to get others concur with them in the condemning them ; but if they cannot prevail , they ought nevertheless to purge themselves and their own church , for none can be bound to be damned for company . the pastors of every church owe a charity to their neighbour churches , but a debt to their own , which the stubborness of others cannot excuse them from . and so those bishops in the primitiue church , that were invironed with arrians , did reform their own churches when they were placed in any sees that had been corrupted by arrianism . thirdly , no time can give prescription against truth , and therefore had any errour been ever so antiently received in any church , yet the pastors of that church finding it contrary to truth ought to reform it : the more antient or inveterate any errour is , it needs the more to be looked to . so those nations that were long bred up in arrianism , had good reason to reform from that erronr . so the church of rome will acknowledge that the greek church , or our church ought to forsake their present doctrines , though they have been long received . fourthly , no later definitions of councils or fathers ought to derogate from the ancienter decrees of councils , or opinions of the fathers ; otherwise the arrians had reason to have justified their submitting to the councils of sirmium , arimini , and millan , and rejecting that of nice : therefore we ought in the first place to consider the decrees and opinions of the most primitive antiquity . fifthly , no succession of bishops how clear soever in its descent from the apostles , can secure a church from errour . which the church of rome must acknowledge , since they can neither deny the succession of the greek church , nor of the church of england . sixthly , if any church continues so hardned in their errours that they break communion with another church for reforming ; the guilt of this breach must lie at their door who are both in the errour , and first reject the other , and refuse to reform or communicate with other churches . upon every one of these particulars ( and they all set together , compleat the plea for the church of england ) i am willing to joyn issue , and shew they are not only true in themselves , but must be also acknowledged by the principles of the church of rome : so that if the grounds of controversie , on which our reformation did proceed , were good and justifiable , it is most unreasonable to say our church had not good right and authority to make it . it can be made appear that for above two hundred years before the reformation , there were general complaints among all sorts of persons , both the subtle school-men , and devout contemplatives , both ecclesiasticks and laicks did complain of the corruptions of the church , and called aloud for a reformation both of faith and manners : even the council of pisa a little before luther's days , did decree , there should be a reformation both of faith and manners , and that both of the head and members . but all these complaints turned to nothing , abuses grew daily , the interests of the nephews and other corrupt intrigues of the court of rome was always obstructing good motions and cherishing ill customs , for they brought the more grist to their mill. when a reformation was first called for in germany , instead of complying with so just a desire , all that the court of rome thought on , was how to suppress these complaints , and destroy those who made them . in end , when great commotions were like to follow , by the vast multitudes of those who concurred in this desire of reforming , a council was called , after the popes had frequently prejudged in the matter , and pope leo had with great frankness condemned most of luther's opinions . from that council no good could reasonably be expected , for the popes had already engaged so deep in the quarrel , that there was no retreating , and they ordered the matter so , that nothing could be done but what they had a mind to : all the bishops were at their consecration their sworn vassals : nothing could be brought into the council without the legates had proposed it . and when any good motions were made by the bishops of spain or germany , they had so many poor italian bishops kept there on the pope's charges , that they were always masters of the vote : for before they would hold a session about any thing , they had so canvassed it in the congregations , that nothing was so much as put to the hazard . all these things appear even from cardinal pallavicini's history of that council . while this council was sitting , and some years before , many of this church were convinced of these corruptions , and that they could not with a good conscience joyn any longer in a worship so corrupted ; yet they were satisfied to know the truth themselves and to instruct others privately in it , but formed no separated church ; waiting for what issue god in his providence might bring about . but with what violence and cruelty their enemies , who were generally those of the clergy , pursued them , is well enough known : nor shall i repeat any thing of it , lest it might be thought an invidious aggravating of things that are past . but at length , by the death of king henry the eight , the government fell in the hands of persons well affected to the reformation . it is not material what their true motives were , for iehu did a good work when he destroyed the idolatry of baal , though neither his motives nor method of doing it are justifiable : nor is it to the purpose to examine , how those bishops that reformed could have complied before with the corruptions of the roman church and received orders from them . meletius , and felix , were placed by the arrians , the one at antioch in the room of eustatbius , the other at rome , in liberius his room , who were both banished for the faith : and yet both these were afterwards great defenders of the truth ; and felix was a martyr for it , against these very hereticks with whom they complied in the beginning . so whatever mixture of carnal ends might be in any of the secular men , or what allay of humane infirmity and fear might have been in any of the ecclesiasticks ; that can be no prejudice to the cause : for men are always men , and the power of god does often appear most eminently , when there is least cause to admire the instruments he makes use of . but in that juncture of affairs the bishops and clergy of this church seeing great and manifest corruptions in it , and it being apparent that the church of rome would consent to no reformation to any good purpose , were obliged to reform , and having the authority of king and parliament concurring , they had betrayed their consciences and the charge of souls for which they stood engaged , and were to answer at the great day , if they had dallied longer , and not warned the people of their danger , and made use of the inclinations of the civil powers for carrying on so good at work . and it is the lasting glory of the reformation , that when they saw the heir of the crown was inflexibly united to the church of rome , they proceeded not to extream courses against her ; for what a few wrought on by the ambition of the duke of northumberland were got to do , was neither the deed of the nation , nor of the church , since the representatives of neither concurred in it . but the nation did receive the righteous heir : and then was our church crowned with the highest glory it could have desired , many of the bishops who had been most active in the reformation , sealing it with their blood , and in death giving such evident proofs of holy and christian constancy , that they may be justly matched with the most glorious martyrs of the primitive church . then did both these churches appear in their true colours , that of rome weltring in the blood of the saints and insatiately drinking it up : and our church bearing the cross of christ and following his example . but when we were for some years thus tried in the fire , then did god again bless us with the protection of the rightful and lawful magistrate . then did our church do as the primitive church had done under theodosius , when she got out from a long and cruel persecution of the arrians under those enraged emperours constantius and valens . they reformed the church from the arrian doctrine , but would not imitate them in their persecuting spirit . and when others had too deep resentments of the ill usage they had met with under the arrian tyranny , nazianzen and the other holy bishops of that time did mitigate their animosities : so that the churches were only taken from the arrians , but no storms were raised against them . so in the beginning of queen elizabeth's reign , it cannot be denied that those of that church were long suffered to live at quiet among us with little or no disturbance , save that the churches were taken out of their hands . nor were even those who had bathed themselves in so much blood made examples , so entirely did they retain the meekness and lenity of the christian spirit . and if after many years quiet , those of that religion when they met with no trouble from the government , did notwithstanding enter into so many plots and conspiracies against the queen's person and the established government , was it any wonder that severe laws were made against them , and those emissaries who under a pretence of coming in a mission , were sent as spies and agents among us to fill all with blood and confusion ? whom had they blame for all this but themselves ? or was this any thing but what would have been certainly done in the gentlest and mildest government upon earth ? for the law of self-preservation is engraven on all mens natures , and so no wonder every state and government sees to its own security against those who seek its ruine and destruction : and it had been no wonder if upon such provocations there had been some severities used which in themselves were uniustifiable : for few take reparation in an exact equality to the damage and injury they have received . but since that time they have had very little cause to complain of any hard treatment ; and if they have met with any , they may still thank the officious insolent deportment of some of their own church , that have given just cause of jealousie and fear . but i shall pursue this discourse no further , hoping enough is already said upon the head that engaged me to it , to make it appear , that it was possible the doctrine of the church should be changed in this matter , and that it was truly changed . from which i may be well allowed to subsume , that our church discovering that this change was made , had very good reason and a sufficient authority to reform this corruption , and restore the primitive doctrine again . and now being to leave my reader , i shall only desire him to consider a little of how great importance his eternal concerns are , and that he has no reason to look for endless happiness , if he does not serve god in a way suitable to his will. for what hopes soever there may be for one who lives and dies in some unknown error , yet there are no hopes for those that either neglect or despise the truth , and that out of humour or any other carnal account give themselves up to errours , and willingly embrace them , certainly god sent not his son in the world , nor gave him to so cruel a death , for nothing . if he hath revealed his counsels with so much solemnity , his designs in that must be great and worthy of god : the true ends of religion must be the purifying our souls , the conforming us to the divine nature , the uniting us to one another in the most tender bonds of love , truth , justice and goodness , the raising our minds to a heavenly and contemplative temper , and our living ●s pilgrims and strangers on this earth , ever waiting and longing for our change . now we dare appeal all men to shew any thing in our religion or worship , that obstructs any of these ends ; on the contrary , the sum and total of our doctrine is , the conforming our selves to christ and his apostles , both in faith and life , so that it can scarce be devised what should make any body that hath any sense of religion , or regard to his soul , forsake our communion , where he finds nothing that is not highly suitable to the nature and ends of religion , and turn over to a church that is founded on and cemented in carnal interests : the grand design of all their attempts being to subject all to the papal tyranny , which must needs appear visibly to every one whose eyes are opened . for attaining which end they have set up such a vast company of additions to the simplicity of the faith and the purity of the christian worship , that it is a great work even to know them . is it not then a strange choice ? to leave a church that worships god so as all understand what they do and can say , amen ; to go to a church where the worship is not understood , so that he who officiates is a barbarian to them : a church which worships god in a spiritual and unexceptionable manner ; to go to a church that is scandalously ( to raise this charge no higher ) full of images and pictures , and that of the blessed trinity , before which prostrations and adorations are daily made . : a church that directs her devotions to god , and his son jesus christ ; to go to a church that without any good warrant not only invocates saints and angels , but also in the very same form of words , which they offer up to god and jesus christ , which is a thing at least full of scandal , since these words must be strangely wrested from their natural meaning , otherwise they are high blasphemies : a church that commemorates christ's death in the sacrament , and truly communicates in his body and blood , with all holy reverence and due preparation ; to go to a church that spends all her devotion in an outward adoring the sacrament , without communicating with any due care , but resting in the priestly absolution allows it upon a single attrition : a church that administers all the sacraments christ appointed , and as he appointed them ; to go to a church that hath added many to those he appointed , and hath maimed that he gave for a pledge of his presence when he left this earth . in a word , that leaves a church that submits to all that christ and his apostles taught , and in a secondary order to all delivered to us by the primitive church ; to go to a church that hath set up an authority that pretends to be equal to these sacred oracles , and has manifestly cancelled most of the primitive constitutions . but it is not enough to remain in the communion of our church ; for if we do not walk conform to that holy faith taught in it , we disgrace it . let all therefore : that have zeal for our church , express it chiefly in studying to purify their hearts and lives , so as becomes christians , and reformed christians , and then others that behold us , will be ashamed when they see such real confutations of the calumnies of out adversaries , which would soon be turned back on them with a just scorn , if there were not too many advantages given by our divisions , and other . but nothing that is personal ought to be charged on our church : and whoever object any such things , of all persons in the world , they are the most inexcusable , who being so highly guilty themselves , have yet such undaunted brows , as to charge those things on us which if they be practised by any among us , yet are disallowed ; but among them have had all encouragement and authority possible from the corruptions both of their popes , and casuists . but here i break off , praying god he may at length open the eyes of all christendom that they may see and love the truth , and walk according to it . amen . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e more nevochim par. . c. . notes for div a -e apolog. . lib. . adv . her. c. . notes for div a -e * boniface the th , extrav . lib. . c. . de majoritate & obedientia . after he had studied to prove that the temporal and material sword , as well as the spiritual , was in the power of st. peter , from these words , behold two swords , and our saviour's answer , it is enough . in the end he concludes whosoever therefore resists this power thus ordained of god , resists the ordinance of god : except with manichee he make two beginnings , which we define to be false and heretical : for moses testifies , that not in the beginnings , but in the beginning god created the heaven and the earth . therefore we declare , say , define and pronounce , that it is of necessity to salvation to every human creature , to be subject to the pope of rome : and it is plain this subjection must be , that he had been pleading thorough that whole decretal , which is the subjection of the temporal sword to the spiritual . notes for div a -e ord. rom. in pascha . greg. nazian . orat. . apol. & . orat. chrisost. l. . de sacr . c. . a discourse concerning the unreasonableness of a new separation, on account of the oaths with an answer to the history of passive obedience, so far as relates to them. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a discourse concerning the unreasonableness of a new separation, on account of the oaths with an answer to the history of passive obedience, so far as relates to them. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for richard chiswell ..., london : . errata: prelim. p. [ ]. advertisement: p. [ ]-[ ] at end. includes bibliographical references. attributed to edward stillingfleet. cf. nuc pre- . reproduction of original in duke university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng seller, abednego, ?- . -- history of passive obedience since the reformation. dissenters, religious -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a discourse concerning the unreasonableness of a new separation , on account of the oaths . with an answer to the history of passive obedience , so far as relates to them . licens'd , october the th . . london , printed for richard chiswell , at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard , mdclxxxix . the contents . some general reflections upon the new separation , on account of the oaths p. , &c. of oaths in general p. . whether the obligation of the former oaths continues ibid. the general good the measure of obligation p. of the state of slavery p. no such thing as absolute power in nature p. of a state of vsurpation p. allegiance to be measured by the laws ibid. no apostasie from the church of england by taking the present oaths . the history of passive obedience considered , and the force of the whole resolved into three points , viz. p. . . that the present oath is to the prejudice of a third person . that it is contradictory to our former oaths p. . that the person who had the right hath given no release p. dr. hammond's arguments considered ibid. our constitution considered , and that it is a branch of it for the three estates to limit the succession , and determine the oaths of allegiance p. so it was under the british and saxon government ibid. england a true successive monarchy , and yet reason of state and the publick good was wont to overrule p. and it was lawful to transfer allegiance accordingly ibid. of the norman line p. the case of maud and stephen ibid. of york and lancaster p. the agreement of richard duke of york and hen. vi . ibid. an oath of allegiance , declarative of right or submissive p. of a king in possession , according to our constitution , and the difference between a king de jure & de facto , and an vsurper p. , , of the rise and reason of that difference de facto & de jure p. the case of the lady jane p. the case of k. john and lewis . the homilies considered p. the case of tiberius p. and of the jews under him p. errata . page . line . read of england . p. . l. . r. to preserve the right of , &c. p. . l. . r. tied . p. . l. . but it may be said , our — p. . l. ult . after place r. , p. . l. . r. as at that — and after state r. , p. . l. ult . for can r. such : marg. l. . r. confestim . a discourse concerning the unreasonableness of a new separation on account of the oaths . sir , your former letter gave me an account of your own and others dissatisfaction about the oaths ; but your second carries the point a great deal farther ; for therein you tell me , those who are unsatisfied , think themselves bound to separate from the communion of those who have taken them ; and that if ease be not given to the scrupulous , new congregations will be immediately formed ; and therefore you beg my assistance in clearing these points , in order to the preventing a new separation . i was not a little surprized at the reading these passages ; and i soon apprehended the mischievous consequence of a new schism , especially among the members of the church of england : but i can hardly think it possible that those who have expressed so great a sense of the mischief of it in others , should be so ready to fall into it themselves , and that upon the meer account of scruples ; when the difference is only about the resolution of a case of conscience , wherein wise and good men may easily differ : but it cannot be a mark either of wisdom or goodness , to separate from those who do so . some think the oaths lawful , and therefore take them ; others do not , and therefore forbear : but is taking the oaths made a condition of communion with us ? is it required of all who joyn in our worship , at least , to declare , that they think the taking of them to be lawful ? if not , what colour can there be for breaking communion on the account of the oaths ? suppose those who take the oaths are to blame ; if they act according to their consciences therein , what ground can there be of separation from them for so doing , unless it be lawful to separate from all such who follow the dictate of an erroneous conscience ? and so there can be no end of separations , till all men's consciences judge alike : for a man's conscience in his practical judgment concerning moral actions ; and there are so many circumstances , which vary the nature of such moral actions , as oaths , that i do not wonder to see men differ about them ; but i should wonder and lament to see them separate from each other for the sake of such a difference . but , there is a great deal of difference between a tenderness and a sowreness of conscience . there is a natural tenderness in the eye , which makes it apt to be offended with mores ; and in that case it is to be gently dealt with : but when an ill humour falls into it , there seems to be greater tenderness , but from a worse cause ; and then the best way of cure is to sweeten or remove the bad humor which caused it . i cannot imagine why , because some men's consciences are so tender in the point of loyalty , that they cannot take the oaths , that they must be so tender too , as not to joyn in communion with those who do it . this seems to come from another cause , and not from the original scruple : are they afraid of joyning with others , not so tender as themselves ? this is the scruple about mixt communion , which hath been so long exploded among us . what then ? have we hereby changed the standard of our communion , or are there in this case imposed any new terms of communion with us ? how then comes a scruple about the oaths , to lead men to think of a separation ? how come they to make so much conscience of one , and so little of the other ? is a separation from our church become a duty with those , who so lately looked on it as so great a fault in others ? but , i perceive , a tender conscience is like a tender constitution , it is soon put out of order : so much greater care then ought those to have who forsake any worldly advantages for the sake of their consciences , lest that which begun with a scruple , at last end in humour and faction , and the ruine of that church , which they have alwaies pretended to value . but to leave these general reflections , i shall now apply my self to the main point , whether there be any reason for these scruples about the oaths ? for if there be not , it will be granted that there can be no reason for a separation on the account of them . if there be any reason , it must arise , either from the continuing obligation of the former oaths ; or from the nature of the present oaths : and therefore i shall enquire into two things : first , the nature and measure of the obligation of political oaths in general . secondly , the difficulties which relate to our oaths in particular . first , as to the nature and obligation of political oaths ; by which i mean such as have immediate and particular respect to human society , and the government we live under ; as all oaths of allegiance do . and herein the difference lies between those and the common oaths between man and man ; because these are founded on an equality of right , but the other on the general security of human society . in political oaths we must distinguish the particular intention and designs of the persons to whom they are made , from the general end and scope of the oaths themselves . i do not deny but such oaths at first came from the mistrust , which those in power had , of such as were at present in subjection to them . and because the fears of a deity made the strongest impressions on people's minds , therefore they were not contented with bare promises , but they added the solemnities of oaths , that they might look on god as concerned , both as a witness and a judge . but if we search narrowly into this matter , the obligation comes not from the bare oath , but from something antecedent to it , or from the promise contained in it , to which the oath adds greater solemnity on the account of religion . and therefore it is generally resolved by the civilians as well as casuits , that an oath follows the nature of the thing about which it is conversant ; for that , say they , is the principal , and the other is but the accessary ; and the accessary still follows the nature of the principal . even molina , who is noted for singularity in this matter , ( for asserting , that an oath added an obligation of justice besides that of religion ) yet when he comes to explain himself , he founds it on the promise included in the oath , and not in the oath it self : for after an oath taken , such as the obligation was before , such is it after , and the promise contained in an oath admits of the same conditions , which it would have had , if no oath had been joyned with it . if there be a law , which makes a contract void , on the account of the publick good , the adding an oath to such a contract doth not make it valid : as for instance , if the law of a country makes void all clandestine marriages ; if a man marries a woman after such a manner , although this be an obligation of the strictest nature : yet such is the force and power of laws made for a publick good , that although the intention of one person was to tie the other in an indissoluble bond ; yet the law supersedes that obligation , or else it is made to no purpose , at least , so far as it relates to the civil contract , which is as much as is necessary to my purpose ; for , even that hath an obligation of conscience going along with it , which however in this case is superseded for the publick good. i do not deny , that the chief intention of those who require oaths of allegiance to themselves , is to bind men as fast as may be to them ; and there is a personal obligation consequent upon it . but then , i say , that the rule & measure of it , is not to be taken from such intention of the persons , but from the general good , which was chiefly intended in such things . for , there is a common good of humane society , which mankind have an obligation to , antecedent to that obligation they are under to particular persons . for , as magistrates were designed for a general good , so the obligation to them must be understood so , as to be still in subordination to the main end . and it is agreed on all hands , that an antecedent and superiour obligation doth void that which is subsequent and inferiour , when they contradict each other ; else an oath might bind a man to sin ; which no man will assert . therefore whatsoever the intention of the persons was , how strict soever the expressions may be , if the keeping of the oath be really and truly inconsistent with the welfare of a people , in subverting the fundamental laws , which support it ; i do not see how such an oath continus to oblige : for , there is no relation of mankind one to another , but there is some good antecedent , which is the just measure of that obligation they stand in to each other . thus it is between parents and children , husbands and wives , masters and servants ; and therefore it is most reasonable to be so between princes and their subjects . a vow to god is as solemn a thing as an oath ; but our saviour declares , if it hinders that good which children are bound to take care of with respect to parents , it ceaseth to oblige . if parents , instead of regarding the good of their children , do openly design their ruin , and contrive ways to bring it about ; none will say but that they are bound to take care of their own welfare , although such parents may call it obstinate disobedience . for , even the government of parents , as natural as it is , is not absolute , but is limited by reason and the good of their children . and when they are of age , they are allow'd to judge of what concerns their welfare , and ( if it be necessary ) to withdraw from their parents immediate care , but preserving a due reverence and respect to them . the hardest case we can suppose , is that of slavery , i.e. of dominion by force ; but altho' the law of nations allows it , yet it is with such limitations , as still shew , that whatever the condition of men be , with respect to one another , there is still a regard to be had to the benefit of those who are in subjection to others . the only thing which makes a state of slavery reasonable , is , that when men are taken captive by others , they are at their mercy ; and the giving of life is so great a benefit , as cannot be compensated by any thing less than a perpetual service ; and in consideration of it , the master is to afford protection and maintenance . still we see all reasonable subjection is in order to some good of those who are under it ; and without it , as aristotle saith , they are not used as men , but as tools . and it is agreed by the best writers on this subject , that if the slave be kept in chains , he is under no obligation of conscience to him that keeps him ; but he may find his own way to escape , because he is treated as an enemy , and therefore hath all the right of war on his side . but if he yields upon terms , then he is under obligation , but it is according to the terms upon which he yielded himself . mr. hobbs indeed saith , that those who submit upon compact , are capable of no injury afterwards ; because they have given up their wills already , and there can be no injury to a willing mind . but this is very false reasoning ; for himself grants , that where there is such a compact , there goes some liberty or priviledge along with it . and it is not to be imagined , that such who entred into compact for their benefit , should renounce all right to it when they have done it ; and if they have right , they may be wronged . and in the case of the greatest slavery , natural equity was required , and a common right was still due to slaves , as men : so that nature owns no such thing , as meer absolute power in some over others , meerly for their own advantage ; but all reasonable power supposes consent , and a good to be attained by it . but when it is carried to a contrary end , it is against the intention of nature , which lays an obligation on some men towards others , with regard to a common good , which cannot otherwise be attained . it is not denied by the strictest casuists in these matters , but that under a state of usurpation , notwithstanding their oaths to the rightful prince , men are bound to do those things which tend to the publick safety as well as their own . but then they found it upon a presumptive consent of the absent prince ; whereas , the true reason is , that men are in the first place bound to promote the publick good , and consequentially , and with respect to it , to regard the will of their princes , who are appointed by god and nature for that end . and if such be rendred uncapable of doing it , yet the obligation on others remains . whereas , if it depended on the will of the absent prince , his presumptive will would not be sufficient ; for that can lay no obligation . but , that the publick good is the true and just measure of the obligation in these oaths , doth further appear , in that the oaths are reciprocal . whereas , if only the good of the persons to whom oaths of allegiance are made , were to be our rule , then there would be no mutual oaths . i am not now enquiring how far in reciprocal oaths one party's failing disobliges the other , but i am shewing , that it must be a general good that is aimed at when both parties are sworn to each other ; so it was in the strictest feudal allegiance , the lord was as much sworn to the tenant to protect and defend him in his rights , as the other was to attend him in his wars for the security of his person . and this was certainly founded on a mutual contract , called by the old feudists liga , and thence ligeas and ligeantia , and so our allegiance . the words of glanvil and bracton and the customary of normandy , are plain , to shew the reciprocal obligation in this case , and the measures on both sides were to be the rights , and customs , and laws of the land. so that allegiance originally implies a compact , and is to be measured by the laws , which are the standard of the publick good of a country . ly , having thus in general fixed these grounds to proceed upon , i come to the particular examination of the difficulties which relate to the present oaths ; and because we are charged with apostacy from the principles of the church of england , and that is made the main ground of the designed separation , i would fain know what this charge is built upon , with respect to the oaths , for that is all we are concerned in . if any particular persons have advanced new hypotheses of government , contrary to the sense of our church , let them answer for themselves . the case of the oaths is quite of another nature . here is no renouncing the doctrine of passive obedience , or asserting the lawfulness of resistance ; but the single point is , whether the law of our nation doth not bind us to allegiance to a king and queen in actual possession of the throne , by consent of the three estates of the realm ? and whether such an oath may not lawfully be taken , notwithstanding any former oath ? and by this very stating of the case , any one may see how impertinent to this purpose the book called the history of passive obedience is ; the truth is , there are not many passages in it which come near the business ; but those that do , contain in them the main difficulties which relate to the oaths , and therefore i shall impartially consider them . which are these , i. that they are to the prejudice of a third person . ii. that they are contradictory to a former oath . iii. that the person to whom they were made , hath given no release or discharge from them . for the first we have these testimonies ; bishop hall , p. . saith , that a promissory oath , which is to the certain prejudice of another man's right , cannot be attended with iustice. bishop sanderson , p. . an oath imposed by one that hath not a just authority , is to be declined as much as we can ; if it be forcibly imposed , it is to be taken with reluctancy , upon this condition , that the words imply nothing unlawful or prejudicial to the rights of a third person ; for if so , we must refuse the oath at the peril of our lives . i grant , it is a rule among the casuists , that an oath ought not to be taken to the prejudice of a third person ; but so it is likewise , that it ought not to be taken against the publick good ; and these two are often put together . it is a sin , saith zoesius , to make a compact to the publick prejudice and injury of another ; and an oath that is conversant about such a matter , is unjust , and not to be kept . so that the right of a third person is not to be taken as distinct from the publick good ; for , if it be inconsistent with it , there is no ground to set up a personal interest against a general good. and so far a mischief is better than an inconvenience ; for it is a standing rule in reason as well as law , the publick right cannot be changed by the contracts of particular persons , ff . l. . tit . . if a man takes an oath to a third person , to do something which the law forbids ; although he suffers by it , yet it is concluded , that such an oath doth not bind , because the publick good is to be preferred , as often as a compact doth depart from the common right , it ought not to be kept ; nor is an oath requiring it to be observed . ff . l. . tit . . iuris gentium § . . and again , an oath against the force of law and authority of right is of no moment . what is the reason that an oath doth not bind against the law ? is not the authority of god above that of men ? no doubt of it ; but since god hath established government and laws for a publick good , their meaning is , that men cannot by any act of their own be bound to overthrow it , in what solemn manner soever it be done . it is resolved in the text of the canon law , in the king of hungary's case , that an oath taken against the good of the kingdom , doth not oblige , de jurejur . c. . intellecto ; although it were to the prejudice of others , because it was in praejudicium regni sui , to the prejudice of his kingdom ; which was more to be regarded ; and because it was contrary to the oath which he took at his coronation , iura regni sui illibata servare , that the rights of the kingdom were to be preserved inviolable . sylvester in sum . . juram . . n. . saith roundly , that an oath doth not bind against the publick good in the first place ; but if it be for a private benefit principally , and consequentially for the publick , then the oath holds ; because still the publick good is to overrule in all such oaths . if a man swears to keep a secret , and that be to the prejudice of a third person , the casuists say , that oath doth not oblige ; how much less , where the publick interest and safety is concerned ? and it is generally agreed by our divines , that an oath of secrecy , where the publick safety is in danger , doth not bind ; as in garnet's case , who pleaded his oath for not discovering the gun-powder-treason . now if an oath doth oblige against the common good , garnet made a good plea ; for his discovery was to the prejudice of others : but if his plea was naught , then the publick good doth make the obligation of an oath to cease . suppose a man makes a contract with another , who thereby acquires a right ; yet if that contract be against the common good , and be confirmed with an oath ; that oath doth not oblige , saith bonacina , de contract . disp . . q. . p. . there are two sorts of law , saith suarez , which respect the publick good ; some which concern ipsum statum reipub. & utilitatem communitatis ; the general state of the commonwealth , and benefit of the community : others which concern bonum commune mediante privato ; that common good which results from every man 's good : against the former , he saith , an oath cannot oblige ; but in the latter , it may , as far as concerns his own benefit . suarez de juram . l. . c. . no obligation , though sworn to , is of any force against those things which are owing to god and the kingdom , saith zei●lerus in his notes on grotius de jure b. & p. l. . c. . § . . from all this it appears , that if the right of a third person be inconsistent with the publick good , such an oath doth not oblige . and it is to be observed , that those persons , whose testimonies are alledged , never put the case of the right in a third person and a publick good standing in competition ; and therefore they do not reach our present case . ii. it is alledged , that this oath is contradictory to a former oath . bishop hall again , history of passive obedience , p. . no oath is or can be of force that is made against a lawful oath formerly taken ; so that he that hath sworn allegiance to his sovereign , and thereby bound himself to maintain the right , power and authority of his said soveraign , cannot by his second oath be tied to do ought that may tend to the infringement thereof ; and if he hath so tied himself , the obligation is , ipso facto , void and frustrate . no doubt , if the first oath continues in force , the second is void , so far as it contradicts it . but we say , the former oath is not in force , as it is repugnant to the publick good , and so the second may be taken without any contradiction : and if the doctrine there laid down holds in our case , i cannot see how it is consistent with the former oath , for any such persons to continue under the protection of the present government , or to enjoy the benefit of the laws ; or to take out a writ in their names , any more than to pray for them ; the one being owning their authority as much as the other . iii. because the person who had the right hath given no release . for this dr. hammond is quoted , in his practical catechism , history of passive obed. p. . s. but was not tiberius an vsurper , and yet christ saith , render to caesar the things that are caesar's . c. julius caesar wrested the power out of the hand of the senate ; but before the time of tiberius the business was accorded between the senate and the emperors , that the emperors now reigned unquestion'd , without any competition from the senate ; which case , he saith , is distant from other forcible vsurpations , where the legal sovereign doth still claim his right to his kingdoms , and to the allegiance of his subjects , no way acquitting them from their oaths , or laying down his pretensions . to clear this matter , i shall enquire into two things . . how far a discharge is necessary from the person concerned . . how far our saviour's rule holds in our case ? as to the former , i say , the resolution of conscience in this case doth not depend upon the will and pleasure of the person to whom the former oath was made , but upon the grounds on which it was made , and from which it had its force to oblige : and if those cease , the obligation of the oath ceases together with them . and whether they do or not , no particular person is so fit to judge as the three estates of the realm ; as i shall now prove from several remarkable instances to this purpose in our histories and parliament records ; whereby i shall make it appear , that when a dispute hath happened about the right of succession , and to whom the oaths of allegiance were to be made , they have looked on it as their proper right , to limit the succession , and to determine the oaths . under the british government , we find a considerable instance to our purpose ; vortigern the british king had entered into a secret league , to bring over the saxons ; upon which the great men of the nation deserted him , and chose vortimer in his room . here it is plain , they thought the introducing a foreign power , a sufficient discharge of their obligation to him , it being so directly contrary to the publick good of the nation , although vortigern gave them no discharge . in the saxon times , sigebert king of the west saxons , was complained of for misgovernment , and for changing their laws for his own ends ; but when he persisted in his way , there was a convention of the nobility and people , ( convenêrunt proceres regni cum populo universo , saith matt. westminster ) and they declared themselves free from allegiance to him , and chose kineulfus in his room . in the kingdom of mercia beornredus for not governing by the laws , was by a convention of the nobility and people set aside from the government , and offa chosen king ; who was of the royal stem , but not the next heir ; and so william of malmsbury observes , in the west saxon kingdom after ina , that no lineal succession was then observed ; but still some of the royal line sat in the throne . and of ina himself , that he was rather put into the throne for his virtue , than by right of succession . aethelulphus , king of the west saxons , went to rome , and there crowned alfred , his youngest son , king , and married the king of france's daughter in his return , and made her queen , against their laws ; for which reasons he was excluded his kingdom : his eldest son and alstan , bishop of shireburn being at the top of this act of exclusion ; and he came back only upon the terms of receiving his son into a share of the kingdom : which shews , that they looked on the laws as the measure of their allegiance ; and where those were openly broken , that it was in their power to transfer it . if our allegiance cannot be transferred by the states of the realm , it must be because ( as some think ) by the fundamental constitution of this kingdom we are bound in allegiance to the next right heir in a lineal succession ; but i find no such thing in the saxon times : for although generally they kept to the royal line , yet not so , but that when it appeared to be much more for the publick good , they did not stick upon the point of proximity . i shall not meddle with the kingdom of the northumbers , which alone was originally elective , as appears by matt. westminster ; wherein there happened so great disorders and confusions , that at last william of malmsbury saith , none could be perswaded to accept of the kingdom ; and so it continued thirty three years , till at last egbert took it into his hands ; and so it became a part of the english monarchy ; which was established in him . but if by the fundamental constitution , allegiance were indispensably due to the next rightful heir in this monarchy , how came athelstan to be crowned , magno consensu optimatum , saith malmsbury , when he was not the rightful heir ? some say ( from an old monk in malmsbury ) that his father left him the crown by his testament ; ( which doth not clear the difficulty as to the inviolable right of succession by the constitution ) . but this cannot be true , for his elder brother elwardus died after his father ; and none pretend that his father disinherited him : and if athelstan were lawful heir , what made him to dispatch his brother edwin out of the way , and to build two monasteries for expiation of that guilt ? how came alfred to oppose his election , as being illegitimate , as malmsbury confesses ? but matt. westminster gives the reason , the times were then difficult , and edward's other sons were too young to manage the government , and therefore they set up athelstan , as one fit for business . how came edred to succeed edmond , and not his sons edwin and edgar ? matt. westminster and bromton give the same reason ; they were uncapable by reason of their age , repugnante illegitimâ aetate , patri succedere non valebant . florence of worcester saith , the northumbers sware allegiance to edred ; and he saith , he was next heir , and yet there were two sons of edmond before him ; for he confesses , that they were the sons of edmond and algiva his queen . after the death of edred , the eldest son of edmond succeeded ; but being found under a moral incapacity , ( for in florentius his words , and matt. westminster , in commisso regimine insipienter egit ) he was set aside , as to all the government beyond thames , and edgar put into it : and not long after into the whole kingdom , by general consent . how came a dispute to happen about the election , after the death of edgar , between his eldest son edward , and etheldred his youngest ? i lay no force on his mother's endeavours to advance him ; but if there had been such an unalterable right of succession , there had not been any colour or pretence for it ; especially since it is said , that his father declared his mind , that the elder should succeed . but saith florentius wigorn. there was a great contention among the great men , about the choice of the king : how could there be any dispute , if they knew the constitution of the kingdom to be , that the next heir must inherit the crown ; and that those are perjured who transfer their allegiance ? after the death of ethelred , the nobility and people were divided , some chusing canutus the dane , and swearing allegiance to him ; others to edmund the son of ethelred . the former pleaded for themselves , that ethelred had broken his faith with them , and therefore they deserted him , so as he was fain to fly into normandy ; and that edmond was not his legitimate son. matt. westminster saith , that the greatest part of the nation , clergy as well as laity , did swear allegiance to canutus ; without any discharge from ethelred , while living , or his son after him . after the death of canutus , a new difference arose about the succession ; some were for harold his supposed son by algiva , others for hardecnute , his son by emma . if the lineal succession were a part of our constitution , how come such perpetual disputes to be concerning it ? for , if it had been owned as a fundamental law , the right of succession must have been clear beyond dispute . but reason of state and the publick interest still over-ruled this matter , and so ethelred's sons by emma , who were the true heirs by legal succession , were set aside , and harold , being upon the place , and so best able to manage the affairs of the kingdom , carried it . hardecnute being dead , how came the banisht sons of edmund ironside , if he were lawful heir , not to be sent for to succeed ? if edmund had no good title , how was the right of succession then preserved ? how could allegiance on these principles be sworn to him ? if he had a good title , how could the oaths be taken to edward the confessor , when the heirs of edmond ironside were living ? i perceive some , to salve the succession , make the mother of edmond to have been ethelred's first wife , and call her elgiva duke thored's daughter ; but william malmsbury saith , she was so obscure a person , that she was not known ; and that edmond ironside made up what was wanting in the management of his father , and the quality of his mother . and the same is said by matt. westminster . florentius wigorn , shews the reason of the mistake ; for he saith , that emma , ethelrede's queen , was in the saxon language called algiva ; and so , out of two names , they have made two queens . bromton leaves the matter in dispute , and saith some affirm , the mother of edmond was betrothed to king ethelred , and was the daughter of count egbert : others , that she was a stranger and a concubine . now , if a man's conscience be strictly hid in such oaths of allegiance , to the right heir in a lineal succession , what satisfaction can he have as to the taking them , since he is then bound to satisfie himself in the strict justice of a title ? for , if edmond's mother was not married , he had no title , and no oath of allegiance could be taken to him ; and whether he was married or not , for all that we can perceive , there was a great doubt at that time , and so continued . and , it is not easie to determine what is to be taken for marriage in a prince , unless the law be the rule . and , if the law determines the nature of contracts in princes , why not as well the obligation of subjects ? for , if there be no rule , it is not possible to satisfie conscience in the niceties of titles ; if there be a rule , the general consent of the people , joined with the common good , seems to have been that which our ancestors proceeded by . i do not hereby go about to set up the power of the people over kings , which is in effect to overthrow monarchy ; for then the whole soveraignty lies in the people , and kings are but their servants : and so there is but one sort of reasonable government , viz. that of a commonwealth . whereas , from the eldest times , the rights of soveraignty have been placed in single persons , before any popular governments were known ; and monarchy hath been ever esteemed a distinct and a reasonable government , especially where it is limited by laws , and those laws made by the consent of the people , i.e. by the three estates of the realm ; which are together the true representatives of the people . i see no necessity of going about to undermine the monarchy , that i may come at a resolution of the present case ; for , i take ours to be a true original monarchy , especially after the rights of the lesser monarchs were swallowed up or delivered into that of the west-saxon kings . and farther , i do not stick to affirm , that it was hereditary , where the right of succession and the publick good did not interfere ; i.e. where there was not a natural or moral incapacity : a natural , as in the sons of the elder edmond , when edred was made king before them ; a moral , as when edgar's elder brother was set aside for his ill government , by one half of the nation , and the other never disputed the matter with them ; and when ethelred was so far deserted , that he went into normandy , and was recalled upon promise of better government . si ipse vel rectius gubernare , vel mitius eos tractare vellet , are the words in florentius ; and to the same purpose matt. westminster , and bromton , and malmsbury : h. huntingdon adds , that he promised omnia rege & populo digna ; all things worthy of the king and people . these things i mention to shew , that although this were a true & successive monarchy in ordinary course ; yet where the publick good was by the estates of the realm judged to require it , they thought it no perjury , or breach of faith , to transferr their allegiance , although it were without the consent of the actual governour , or the next lineal heirs . having thus far cleared this point , as to the saxon constitution of our government , i come to that of the norman ; and here i shall not go about to shew how broken the succession was by force and faction , but what the judgment of the nation was , as to the transferring allegiance . and , the first instance i shall bring , is in the case of the oath taken to maud the daughter of henry the first , in the one and thirtieth year of his reign ; and there is no question , but he designed her to succeed him ; legitimâ & perenni successione , as malmsbury's words are ; but stephen , ( who had before sworn allegiance to her ) watched his opportunity , and by the help of a party made by his brother , ( the bishop of winchester ) he was crowned king ; and although at first , malmsbury saith , but three bishops , and very few noblemen , joined with him , yet he soon after saith , that most of them went in to him : and even robert of gloucester , king henry the first 's natural son , took an oath to him , but with the condition of his preserving his honour and covenants . there are several things worthy our observation in this affair , with respect to oaths of allegiance . ( ) that those who excuse them from perjury , who had sworn allegiance to maud before , do it upon this account , because it is said by rad. de diceto , that hugh bigod sware , that king henry the first , on his deathbed , disinherited his daughter , and made stephen his heir . supposing the story true , what is this to the discharge of the oath as to maud ; ( for the oath was not made to henry the first , but to his daughter , and her right was chiefly concerned in it . ) if this hold , an oath of allegiance may cease , without discharge from the party to whom it is made . and so the archbishop of canterbury , and the bishops of winchester and salisbury , as well as the nobility , thought themselves at liberty to take a new oath of allegiance , without a release from the party concerned in the former oath . ( . ) that upon the agreement between k. stephen and h. . maud her self was set aside , and stephen was to continue king for his life , and h. . to succeed him . now if oaths of allegiance must not be interpreted by the publick good , here are insuperable difficulties as to the obligation of these oaths . for the allegiance was transferr'd from the right heir to an usurper , as stephen must be owned to have been by those who deny that allegiance can be transferr'd from the right heir . and they must continue allegiance to the usurper for his life ; which is repugnant to the nature of our constitution , if it be founded in a lineal and legal succession . and again , maud , to whom they had sworn , is set aside , and the reversion of the crown is entailed on her son , although she was living . fortescue , in a manuscript-discourse about the title of the house of lancaster , saith , this was done in parliament , communi consensu procerum , & communitatis regni angliae . rad. de diceto , who lived nearer the time , saith no such thing ; but fortescue appeals not only to the chronicles , but to the proceedings of parliament , for it . and matt. westminster and paris say , the right of h. . was declared by k. stephen in conventu episcoporum , & aliorum de regno optimatum ; which was the description of a parliament of that time ; for , as yet , the baronage represented the nation . gervase saith , the great men were summoned to perfect the agreement , by giving their assent to it , and confirming it by their oaths . fortescue saith further , that h. . was crowned king in the life of his mother , ( who lived to the of h. . ) by the general consent of the kingdom . which shews how far the publick good was thought to be the measure of the obligation of these oaths . for gul. neuburgensis saith , that the bonum publicum was the foundation of this agreement . and matt. westminster , that the king and the lords did all swear to it , and a solemn charter was made of it , and kept in a most secure place . and thus the oaths of allegiance were continued to one that had no right for his life ; and made to one who pretended to no right , but after his mother , who was set aside in this agreement . so that here were three oaths of allegiance at once , that to maud the empress , that to k. stephen , and to h. . and yet the general good of the nation must give an equitable sense of these oaths , or there must be perjury on all sides . for those who had first sworn to maud , could not transfer their allegiance on any other account , either to stephen , or h. . during her life . for we never read that she was present at the agreement , or resigned her right to the crown . the next instance i shall produce , is in the oaths that were taken during the controversies between the houses of york and lancaster . which was not so plain a case as men commonly imagin ; and in truth , if the just legal title be the only rule of conscience in this case , it was hard to take the oaths on either side . for , as on the one side , a lineal descent was pleaded from the daughter of the duke of clarence , who was elder brother to iohn duke of lancaster , from whom by marriage the duke of york claimed his title ; so , on the other side , it was objected , that there was no sufficient evidence of the legitimacy of philippa daughter to the duke of clarence ; because , as fortescue observes , the duke of clarence was abroad from before the time of her conception till after her birth , and that he never owned her mother after ; that she never assumed the arms of the duke as her father , nor those descended from her , till the duke of york pretended to the crown ; that e. . made an entail of the crown upon his heirs male ; ( of which i have seen a written account as old as the time of h. . which not only affirms the absence and divorce of the duke of clarence ; but that e. . seized all his lands into his hands , and in parliament soon after entailed the crown on his heirs male , and that his daughters there present agreed to the same . ) but besides they pleaded , that so long a prescription as the house of lancaster had of above threescore years , was allowed by the ius gentium , to purge the defects of the first title : these are things which deserved consideration against such a meer lineal descent as the house of york insisted upon . and against the house of lancaster , the intrusion of h. . upon the deposition of r. . is an invincible objection to such as found allegiance on the right of succession . but that which i lay the greatest weight upon , is the way of ending this difference in parliament , which hath several remarkable things in it : ( . ) that the duke of york , notwithstanding his title , takes an oath of allegiance in parliament to h. . during his life ; reserving to himself the right of succession after him . for he swears to do nothing to the prejudice of his reign or dignity-royal , nor against his life or liberty ; and that he would to the utmost of his power , withstand all attempts to the contrary . the same oath was taken by his sons edward earl of march ( afterward e. . ) and edward earl of rutland . was this a lawful oath or not ? to say it was unlawful , is to reflect on the wisdom of the three estates , who looked on this as the best expedient for the publick good , as being the way to prevent the effusion of christian blood. and it is not easy to prove such an oath unlawful ; as containing nothing unlawful , nor to the prejudice of a third person , when he who was chiefly concerned voluntarily took it . if it were a lawful oath , then an oath of allegiance on the account of possession , is a lawful oath . for the matter of right is not mentioned in it , and richard duke of york did not renounce the opinion of his own right hereby , ( whether true or false ) but did bind up himself to do nothing to the prejudice of the royal dignity of h. . and yet he look'd on him as meer possessor of it ; therefore in his judgment and the parliament's , an oath of allegiance may lawfully be taken , on the account of the possession of the crown , although persons be not satisfied of the right of it . the words of his agreement are remarkable to this purpose , as they are to be found in the parliament-rolls . the said title notwithstanding , and without prejudice of the same , the said richard duke of york tenderly desiring the weal , rest and prosperity of this land , and to set apart all that might be trouble to the same ; and considering the possession of the said king henry the sixth , and that he hath for his time be named , taken , and reputed king of england and france , and lord of ireland , is content , agreeth and consenteth , that he be had , reputed and taken king of england and of france , with the royal estate , dignity and preeminence belonging thereto , and lord of ireland , during his life natural ; and for that time the said duke , without hurt or prejudice of his said right and title , shall take , worship and honour him for his sovereign lord. here was certainly an oath taken to a king , whom the person taking it looked on only as a king de facto , and not de jure ; and yet this oath was taken and allowed , nay contrived in parliament ; and that for no less an end , than for the weal , rest , and prosperity of the land , i.e. for the publick good. it may be said , that the case is different ; for richard duke of york parted with his own right ; but we cannot with anothers , which we have sworn to preserve . i answer , that he did not look on such an oath as parting with his right , but as a thing fitting to be done on the account of possession for the publick good. and so many others taken such another oath of allegiance , wherein there is no declaration as to right , but the same things required , which the duke of york promised in his oath to hen. . but allegiance is not due but where there is a right to claim it ; and that cannot be , where there is no right to the crown . i answer , that an oath of allegiance may be twofold : . declarative of right ; and in that case none can be owned to have right , but he that hath it . . submissive allegiance ; where no more is required than is contained in the duke of york ' s oath , and yet he declared this was no prejudice to his right . but it may be said , he declared so much before he took the oath , and so gave the sense in which he took it . i answer , that his putting in his claim , and his title being allow'd after the king in being , had been sufficient ; but in our case there is no need of a declaration , since the declaratory part is left out ; which is a fuller declaration of the sense of the oath , than our words can make . but to proceed ; ( . ) the first objection the parliament made to the duke of york's claim was , from the oaths they had taken to h. . to which the duke of york gave a large answer , that oaths must not bind against truth and iustice. but this was to take it for granted , that he had the truth and justice of his side , whereas there was a long possession of threescore years against him ; surely matters of fact which were necessary to the disproving his title , were then so far out of memory , that it was impossible to make clear evidence about them ; and others were not examin'd , as whether the duke of clarence were absent so long from his wife abroad , when philippa was born ? whether one sir iames awdely suffer'd about it ? whether he was divorced from her upon it ? whether e. . after the death of the duke of clarence , did entail the crown on his heirs male ? whether upon the deposition of r. . the claim of right on behalf of the duke of clarence's heir , ought not to have been made ? how far edmond mortimer's owning the title of h. . and the duke of cambridge's attainder did affect him ? whether he had not renounced his own pretentions , by owning h. . to be his supream and soveraign lord , as he had often done in a most solemn manner , particularly in his oaths at the altar at st. pauls , which is to be seen in the book of oaths , p. . and elsewhere . but at that time , h. . was under the power of the duke of york ; and that was a very unfit time to clear a sinking title . but however the lords in parliament were concerned for their oaths to h. . and proposed the former expedient , not only for the publick welfare , but in regard to their oaths , notwithstanding that they allow'd the duke's title to be good . their words are , it was concluded and agreed by all the said lords , that since it was so , that the title of the said duke of york cannot be defeated , and in eschewing the great inconvenience that might ensue , to take the mein above rehearsed , the oaths that the said lords had made unto the king's highness at coventry and other places saved . from whence it is plain that they look'd on their oaths to hen. . as consistent with owning the right to be in the duke of york ; and that possession was a sufficient ground for continuing their oaths . ( . ) in e. . where the right and title of the d. of york is most amply set forth , yet there this agreement , h. . is recited , and the proceedings against h. . are grounded upon his breach of it . which shews farther that those parliaments which did assert the right of succession highest , ( among which , this of e. . ought to be reckon'd ) yet it was never disputed , whether those who had taken the oaths to h. . were perjured ; for they look on the possession of the crown as a sufficient ground for the allegiance required . but it may be said , that from hence we see that he was look'd on as having the best title , who had the best right by lineal succession . i answer , that we are not enquiring into titles , but searching into the reasons and measures of oaths of allegiance ; and whether those do require full satisfaction about the best title ? or supposing one unsatisfied about that , he may not yet be satisfied in taking such an oath as the d. of york and his sons did ? but such precedents prove nothing , unless they be agreeable to our laws and constitution . yes , a great deal , while we are enquiring into our legal constitution ; and we find such things allowed in parliaments ; and not only so , but in such parliaments which allow'd not the title of the king to whom those oaths were made . our law owns no king meerly as in possession , but the right heir is the legal king , whether in possession or not . our law does own a king in possession , if treason may be committed against him ; and for this we have not only the authority of sir e. c. but of the year-books , e. . where it is deliver'd for law at that time ; and with a particular respect to h. . et home sera arraigne de treason fait a dit roy. h. and therefore sir e. c. had good authority for what he said ; and that not in the reign of a king de facto , but when a king thrust out another for want of right , and derived his whole right from a lineal succession . bagot's case goes farther than grants and judicial proceedings of a king de facto ; for therein it is declared treason to compass the death of a king de facto ; and it is very absurd to imagine treason against one whom the law doth not own : for treason is a high violation of the law , and how can the law be violated against one whom the law doth not own ? besides , in bagot's case there is a distinction made between a meer vsurper , and one on whom the crown is setled by parliament ; and so h. . is denied to be a meer usurper . et six le dit roy h. de fait merement , come vsurper , car le corone fuit taille a luy per parliament . so that by our constitution a great deference is to be shew'd to the judgment of the three estates in matters that concern the right of the crown ; or else , an entail made by them could make no difference ; but the whole resolution must be into the lineal desent . and thus i look on the statute , h. . as agreeable to our constitution ; for if it be treason to compass the death of a king de facto , there is great reason there should be indemnity for those who act for him. but what doth this signify to the consciences of men ? very much , if they are to be satisfied by our constitution . i grant meer indemnity doth not clear a man's mind ; but its agreeableness to former proceedings and judgments shews how far our constitution allows us to go , and that there is no argument from thence which can hinder the satisfaction of conscience so far . but suppose a king de jure be in possession of this act , and another comes and dispossesses him , and so is king de facto , doth this law indemnify those who fight against the king de jure for the king de facto ? whosoever is in actual and quiet possession of the crown , by consent of parliament , hath the right to challenge the benefits of this act for those who serve him. but i do not say , that this act gives any man right to oppose a rightful king ; but it only provides for the indemnity of those who assist the present possessor , although another had the right by descent . for , after the d. of york's challenging the crown by right of succession against the possessor , there were two parties in the nation , the one was for the right of succession , and the other for the right of possession by a national consent . and the disputes between these two continued as long as the differences between the houses of york and lancaster lasted . when h. . was setled in the throne , without regard to the right of succession , although there was a general submission , yet there was still a great dissatisfaction in the york party ; which occasion'd all the disturbances of h. th's reign , from setting up an heir of the house of york . ( and sir william stanly was gained to that party , which cost him his life . ) and they went so far as to conclude it treason to stand by the possessor against the next lineal heir . which i take to have been the true occasion of the statute h. . which doth certainly indemnify those who adhere to the possessor , although another may claim a better right ; and thereby declares a possessory right to be a sufficient ground of allegiance , as far as that act goes . there are three sorts of persons may be said to have possession of the crown , an vsurper , a king de jure , and a king de facto ; and because the distinction between these doth not seem to be well understood , i shall briefly explain it . an usurper is one , who comes in by force , and continues by force . a king de jure is one , who comes in by lineal descent , as next heir , and whose right is owned and recognized by the estates of the realm . a king de facto is one , who comes in by consent of the nation , but not by virtue of an immediate hereditary right ; but to such a one being owned and receiv'd by the estates of the realm , the law of england , as far as i can see , requires an allegiance . or else the whole nation was perjur'd in most of the reigns from the conquest to h. . for the two williams , six at least of the seven henries , king stephen , and king iohn were all kings de facto , for some time at least , for they came not in as next heirs in a lineal descent . but still oaths of allegiance were taken to them ; and no such scruples appear to have been made all that time ; nor any charge of perjury , on those who did what our law and constitution required . was the nation perjured in the time of h. . who , as all know , had no pretence of an hereditary right ? yet being received and crowned , the oaths of allegiance were taken to him , before he was married to the daughter of e. . for , he was crowned octob. . had the crown entailed in parliament nov. . and was married ian. . but the first parliament of r. . endeavoured to make void the title of the children of e. . upon pretence of a precontract with the e. of shrewsburies daughter ; and of george duke of clarence by his attainder , thereby to make r. . right heir to the crown ; but lest these things should fail , to his claim of inheritance , they join their own election , and desire him to accept the crown ▪ as to him of right belonging , as well by inheritance as by lawful election . it seems , they would have made him a king de jure as well as de facto ; but the excluding the children of e. . never gave satisfaction since the lady lucy her self disowned it to the mother of e. . and if such an allegation would hold , the whole succession both of york and lancaster might be questioned ; for both derive from h. . whose mother was believed at that time to have been precontracted at least to hugh le brun , before she was married to k. iohn , and was married to him , whilst his former wife was living . and if q. eleanor's divorce from the k. of france were not good ( as it is hard to prove it so ) what becomes of all the line of h. . who married her , after she had two children by her former husband ? but if mens consciences are tied to a strict legal and lineal descent , they must be satisfied in all these points . but supposing the right of the children of e. . to have been never so good ; what doth this make towards the justifying the oaths of allegiance , which were made to h. . whom some will not allow to have any claim by the house of lancaster , since they say , the same act which legitimated iohn of gaunt's children by kath. swinford , did exclude them from any title to the crown ? yet the oaths of allegiance were taken by the whole nation in the time of h. . and no dispute was then made about it ; because it was then believed , that quiet possession was a sufficient ground for allegiance . it is objected , that it cannot be agreeable to the law of england to swear allegiance to a king de facto , when the duke of northumberland suffered by the law for adhering to a queen de facto . a king de facto according to our law ( as i said ) is one in quiet possession of the crown , by consent of parliament , without hereditary right ; such as h. , , , . were all thought to be , by those who made this distinction . for , as far as i can find , the distinction of a king de facto and de jure was then started , when the house of york so much insisted on their hereditary right ; and so many of our kings had governed the kingdom by consent without it . therefore the lawyers , to find a sufficient salvo for the kings of the house of lancaster , framed this distinction of kings de facto and de jure ; but still they meant kings regnant , as they called them , or in full possession of the royal dignity by a national consent . ( the distinction had been better of a two-fold right , viz. possessory and hereditary . ) but this was far from being the case of queen iane , who was set up by a particular party against the general sense of the nation , as soon appeared ; for the main point her title stood upon was this , whether the king by his grant could dispose of the crown against an act of parliament which setled the succession ? and that this was the true point , appears evidently by judge mountague's papers , who was imployed against his will , in drawing up the grant. so that the duke of northumberland's case doth by no means reach the point of a king de facto . but it is further urged from our homilies , that our church therein condemns those english who did swear fidelity to the dauphin of france , breaking their oath of fidelity to their natural lord the king of england . to which i answer , ( . ) that king iohn was only a king de facto himself , if a legal succession makes a king de jure . for , ( . ) his eldest brother's son arthur was then living , as all confess . ( . ) he was convicted of treason against his brother r. . and the sentence pronounced against him by hugo de pudsey bishop of durham , as the king of france pleaded to the pope's legat who came to solicit for him . ( . ) hubert archbishop of canterbury declar'd at his coronation , that he came not in by hereditary right , but by election ; and he accepted of it so . ( . ) what right he had after the death of his nephew , he gave up by the resignation of his crown to the pope . he could have no hereditary right while arthur's sister lived , who survived him , and was kept in the castle at bristol . but supposing it , i do not understand how he that gave up his right of dominion to the pope , could still retain it ? and if he was feudatary to the same , he could not challenge allegiance as due to him , but to the pope as lord paramount . and it was pleaded against him , that although he could not dispose of his crown without consent of his barons , yet he might demise it . and upon his resignation he ceased to be king ; and so the throne was vacant . and by that means there was a devolution of right to the barons to fill up the vacancy ; who made choice of lewis by the right of his wife , who was heir to king john. if after all this , an oath of allegiance to him was lawful , then , i say , an oath to a king de facto is so , for king iohn was no more . ( . ) as to the barons calling in lewis , and forsaking k. iohn , it is necessary to observe on what reason it is that our homilies condemn it . for the whole design of that homily is , to shew the popes vsurpations over princes , and their stirring up subjects to rebellion against them , by discharging them from their oaths ; and for those the instance of king john is produced . as appears by the words just before ; now had english-men at that time known their duty to their prince set forth in god's word , would a great many nobles , and other english-men natural subjects , for this foreign and unnatural vsurper his vain curse of the king , and for his feigned discharging them of their oath and fidelity to their natural lord , upon so slender , or no ground at all , have rebelled against their sovereign lord the king ? would english subjects have taken part against the king of england , and against english men , with the french king , and french men , being incensed against this realm by the bishop of rome ? ( . ) this doth not concern the present case . for men may condemn those english men who sent for lewis , and yet may lawfully take the present oaths . by which men are not bound to justify such proceedings , but to promise faith and allegiance to such as are in actual possession of the throne . which the oaths taken to k. iohn will justify . thus i have considered the greatest difficulties i have yet met with about taking the oaths , and have not dissembled the strength of any of them . there is only one thing remains , and that is the answer given to the case of tiberius , who was an vsurper , and yet our saviour said , give unto cesar the things that are cesar's . the answer is , that although it were a forcible vsurpation in julius cesar , yet before that time the matter was accorded between the senate and the emperors , and they reigned unquestioned without any competition from the senate . so that it was not lawful to swear allegiance to iulius cesar , who had the full possession of the power , but it was to tiberius : and why so ? where was the right of government in the time of iulius cesar ? in the senate and people . and so it continued all iulius cesar's time . but how came the senate and people to lose their right in the time of tiberius ? ( . ) had they given it up by any solemn act of theirs , as many say they did by the lex regia , which iustinian confidently affirms ? then all the right which the emperor had , was by devolution from the people ; and so they acted by virtue of that power which the people gave them ; ( populus comprehends both senate and community . ) and then the emperors had their rights of soveraignty from the people , and not from god. for here was no other act but that of the people giving up their right . and then the case of obedience to the roman emperors will be found very different from that of the northern kingdoms , where the people never gave up their rights in such a manner ; but in cases of difficulty concerning succession , the three estates did look on themselves as particularly concerned ; as might be easily proved , if it were needful , in all the northern kingdoms . ( . ) but suppose they did not formally give up their right , but were partly wheedled and partly forced out of it ; doth this give a good title ? suppose augustus had by his acts procured the consent of the people , as to his own government ; what was this to tiberius ? did they give him a power to make whom he pleased his successor ? something may be said from dion and strabo as to the former ; but there is no pretence as to the latter : for it was a meer arbitrary act in augustus to nominate tiberius ; and all the title he had at first was from the praetorian band and legions : afterwards the consuls , and senate , and souldiers , and people did swear allegiance to him , as the historians tell us . now here i desire to know , whether tiberius were any more than emperor de facto , when they did thus swear to him ? for all the right he had was from their voluntary submission to him at rome . as to the roman provinces , tacitus saith , they were content with the present change of government , because they suffered by the factions and avarice of the great men ; which made them weary of the government by the senate and people . but this only shews they were willing to change their masters , hoping they might mend their condition , but signifies little to the matter of right . since after they were made provinces , they owned their subjection to the roman government , by paying tribute , and receiving magistrates from it , however that government was managed , whether by senate or people , or by one who had the imperial power , whatever name he were called by . but as to the province of iudea in particular , there are several conditions of it to be considered . ( . ) while it was tributary to the kings of persia and syria . jaddus the high priest told alexander that they had taken an oath of fidelity to darius , and therefore could not bear arms against him while he lived . but was darius king de jure or de facto over the iews ? he was not king over them by a lineal succession from their own princes ; nor by the fundamental constitution of their government , which owned no legal king that was not of their brethren : i do not say they were not to submit to , but not to chuse any other . but what right had darius over the iews , any more than succeeding in the persian monarchy gave a right to the chaldean conquests ? i grant , the iews did act under the persian monarchs , as nehemiah was governour under artaxerxes , and that they did swear to them , appears by iaddus ; but the question is , on what right that oath was founded ? and whether upon alexander's conquest , they could not as well take a new oath to him ? for why should not present actual dominion give as much right , as succeeding into anothers right of dominion , which was at first gained by conquest ? if possession gives right in one case , why not in the other ; since there is more reason for allegiance , where there is a power of protection , than where there is none . and so we find iaddus and the iews did submit to alexander afterwards , and some of them went into his army , although darius was still living ; which shews , that as they were not forward to break their allegiance sworn to darius ; so they were not obstinate in opposing alexander , but yielded to the over-ruling hand of providence . ( . ) when the iews had their liberty granted them by the kings of syria . for antiochus eupator made peace with them , by which they were to have the liberty of their own laws ; and although he soon brake his agreement with them ; yet the lacedaemonians and romans owned them as a free-people , and treated with them as such . and simon pleaded to athenobius in this war ; we have neither taken other mens land , nor holden that which appertaineth to others ; but the inheritance of our fathers , which our enemies had wrongfully in possession a certain time . wherefore we having opportunity , hold the inheritance of our fathers . which plainly shews , that they look'd on those who ruled over them as unjust possessors ; at that time when they were so far under them , as to swear allegiance to them . after this antiochus pius did grant them their liberty upon composition ; which they enjoyed as their neighbours did , and suffered not as slaves to the kings of syria , but as sometimes oppressed by them . ( . ) when they were reduced into the form of a roman province ; which was done by pompey . and from that time they were in subjection to the roman state ; being only permitted to enjoy the liberty of their religion . but i shall take notice only of the case of the iews subjection to the roman emperor in our saviour's time . suetonius takes notice of the strange impudence of tiberius , in seeming so long to decline the accepting the soveraignty , when from the very first he had assumed the soveraign power , without asking the leave either of senate or people . * tacitus saith , that he took upon him the government immediately upon the death of augustus ; and did exercise the imperial power every where ; only when he was in the senate he seemed to demur , for fear of germanicus and his legions . † dio , that he exercised all the parts of the government , having secured the italian forces to himself ; but he declined the name , till he understood the design of germanicus . so that here we have a plain original usurpation in tiberius ; there being no consent of senate and people to his assuming the soveraign power . and yet tacitus saith , first the consulls and great officers , then the senate and people did swear allegiance to him . which was before he had their consent . for he used his own art afterwards , that he might seem to be chosen by them ; and not to come to his power by the force of arms , or the intrigues of his mother . but what appearance of consent soever afterwards he gained from the senate , it was extorted from them by force or fraud ; as is evident from the same historians . but what right can such a consent give ? and he took away the remainder of the peoples liberties in their comitia , and never asked their consent . what then was the right of tiberius to the government founded upon ? augustus had several repeated acts , whereby they continued his government from time to time , and thereby shewed their consent , as dion and strabo affirm , that the whole government was committed to him from the senate and people ; but what is there like this in the case of tiberius ? he was augustus his wife's son , and he made him his heir by his testament : and what was that to the roman state ? was not agrippa posthumus , then living , much nearer to augustus , who was his own grand-child ? and by , the story in tacitus of fabius maximus , seemed designed by him to succeed him ; but upon the discovery of it , first augustus , and then agrippa was sent out of the world to make way for tiberius , who had before-hand engaged the italian legions . so that he trusted to no testamentary right , as appears by all his collusions with the senate , which there had been no place for , if he had assumed the government by virtue of augustus his testament or adoption . here we have then a plain instance of one who was in the possession of power without colour of right , and yet oaths of allegiance were taken to him , both by the senate and people . and when these oaths were taken , there was no adjusting the matter between him and the senate ; for he had newly assumed the government by force when they took these oaths . here was no unquestion'd authority from the senate ( whatever vell. paterculus pretends ) but when he had gotten the power into his hands , he required them to own it . augustus was so wise , as when they offer'd him their oaths , he refused them for this reason ; he considered well , saith dio , that if they gave their free consent , they would do what they promised without swearing ; and if they did not , all the oaths in the world would not make them . but tiberius was of another mind , and he required their oaths in the first place ; and it is not improbable that the same were required in several provinces . when our saviour appeared in iudea , tiberius was in possession of this power , over the roman empire ; and because the jews were more scrupulous than other people , on account of their fundamental laws , as to the owning any usurped jurisdiction over them ; some among them put the question to him about paying tribute to caesar , i. e. about owning any act of subjection to an usurped power . for there were plausible arguments on both sides ; one was from the strictness of their laws ; the other was from the benefit they received from the roman protection . the former seemed to have more of conscience , and the latter of human prudence . our saviour takes a wise method to answer the doubt ; he asks for the currant tribute-mony , and finding it had cesar's superscription , saith , give to cesar the things that are cesar's . they might have replied , they are his de facto , but not de iure . why did not our saviour answer this difficulty , but leave them to collect their duty from the use of cesar's coin among them ? might not one that had no right , have the power of coining mony , and dispersing it , so that it should be in common use ? and was not tiberius such an one ? what then doth he mean by this answer ? either we must say , that he declines the main question , or that he resolved it to be lawful , upon general reasons , to shew acts of subjection to such a power , which we may not be satisfied , is according to our laws . for so it is plain the roman power was not agreeable to the jewish constitution ; and although that were from god , yet our saviour , who gives the best directions for conscience , would by no means have men to be peevish or obstinate in such matters . but paying of tribute is quite another thing from oaths of allegiance . it is so , as to the manner of testifying our subjection ; but the main question is , whether any act of subjection be lawful or not ? if it be lawful to testify it one way , why not another ? if in paying tribute , why not in solemn promising to pay it ? if in promising , why not in swearing , i. e. in calling god to witness that i do it ? thus far then we may go ; we may swear to pay tribute ; but on what account ? is it not as a token of allegiance , i. e. of a duty owing on the account of protection ? then we have gained one step farther , viz. that we may swear to perform some parts of allegiance . but why then may we not do so as to all that such an oath implies ? if it respects no more than the duty which we owe , with respect to the publick . and that is certainly the meaning of an oath , when all declarations of right are left out , and only those of duty expressed , as it is in our present case . as to the dreadful charge of perjury and apostacy , which some , of much greater heat than judgment , have made use of against those who hold it lawful to take the oaths ; if what i have said be true , it is little less than ridiculous : and it would have had more appearance of reason , if the pharisees had urged it against our saviour's resolution of the case about tribute-mony . for , had not god by his own law settled the government among them ? and was it not a fundamental article of that law , that none should rule over them , but one of their brethren ? was the roman emperor , or pontius pilate such ? have not all the ancient zealots of the law opposed any such foreign power ? what can it be then less than perjury and apostacy to give any countenance to such an open violation of this law , and to incourage men to renounce it ; when they find such liberties allowed by such a teacher ? but i forbear . to conclude then ; i have , at your earnest desire , taken this matter into serious consideration , and have impartially weighed the most pressing difficulties i have met with ; i cannot promise to give you satisfaction , but i have satisfied my self , and have endeavoured to do the same for you . i am heartily sorry for any breaches among us at this time , and it is easy to foresee who will be the gainers by them . but i am glad to understand that the chiefest of those who scruple the oaths , have declared themselves against the attempts of such an unseasonable separation , and i hope others will be so wise as to follow their example . i am , sir , yours . octob. . . books lately printed for richard chiswell . the case of allegiance in our present circumstances considered , in a letter from a minister in the city to a minister in the country , . a breviate of the state of scotland in its government , supream courts , officers of state , inferiour officers , offices and inferiour courts , districts , jurisdictions , burroughs royal , and free corporations . fol. some considerations touching succession and allegiance . to . reflections upon the late great revolution : written by a lay-hand in the country , for the satisfaction of some neighbours . the history of the desertion ; or an account of all the publick affairs in england , from the beginning of september , , to the twelfth of february following . with an answer to a piece called , the desertion discussed , in a letter to a country-gentleman . by a person of quality . k. william and k. lewis . wherein is set forth the inevitable necessity these nations lie under of submitting wholly to one or other of these kings ; and that the matter in controversy is not now between k. william and k. iames , but between k. william and k. lewis of france , for the government of these nations . a sermon preached at fulham , in the chappel of the palace , upon easter-day . at the consecration of the right reverend father in god gilbert lord bishop of sarum : by anthony horneck , d. d. the judgments of god upon the roman catholick church , from its first rigid laws for universal conformity to it , unto its last end. with a prospect of these near approaching revolutions , viz. the revival of the protestant profession in an eminent kingdom , where it was totally suppressed . the last end of all turkish hostilities . the general mortification of the power of the roman church in all parts of its dominions . in explication of the trumpets and vials of the apocalypse , upon principles generally acknowledged by protestant interpreters . by drue cressener , d. d. a discourse concerning the worship of images ; preached before the university of oxford . by george tully , sub-dean of york , for which he was suspended . two sermons , one against murmuring , the other against censuring : by symon patrick , d. d. now lord bishop of chichester . an account of the reasons which induced charles the second , king of england , to declare war against the states general of the united provinces in . and of the private league which he entred into at the same time with the french king to carry it on , and to establish popery in england , scotland , and ireland , as they are set down in the history of the dutch war , printed in french at paris , with the priviledg of the french king , . which book he caused to be immediately suppress'd at the instance of the english ambassador . fol. an account of the private league betwixt the late king iames the second and the french king. fol. dr. wake 's sermon before the king and queen at hampton-court . dr. tennison's sermon against self-love , before the house of commons , iune . . mr. tully's sermon of moderation , before the lord-mayor , may. . . an examination of the scruples of those who refuse to take the oath of allegiance . by a divine of the church of england . a dialogue betwixt two friends , a iacobite and a williamite ; occasioned by the late revolution of affairs , and the oath of allegiance . the case of oaths stated . to . a letter from a french lawyer to an english gentleman , upon the present revolution . to . the advantages of the present settlement , and the great danger of a relapse . the interest of england in the preservation of ireland . the answer of a protestant gentleman in ireland to a late popish letter of n. n. upon a discourse between them , concerning the present posture of that country , and the part fit for those concern'd there to act in it . to . an apology for the protestants of ireland , in a brief narrative of the late revolutions in that kingdom ; and an account of the present state thereof : by a gentleman of quality . to . a true representation to the king and people of england how matters were carried on all a long in ireland by the late k. iames , in favour of the irish papists there , from his accession to the crown to the th of april , . the mantle thrown off : or the irish-man dissected , to . reflections upon the opinions of some modern divines , concerning the nature of government in general , and that of england in particular . with an appendix relating to this matter , containing , . the seventy fifth canon of the council of toledo . . the original articles in latin , out of which the magna charta of king iohn was framed . 〈◊〉 the true magna charta of king iohn in french : by which the magna charta in matth , paris is cleared and justified , and the alterations in the common magna charta discovered . ( of which see a more particular account in the advertisement before the appendix . ) all three englished . the doctrine of non-resistance , or passive obedience no way concerned in the controversies now depending between the williamites ▪ and the iacobites . jacobi usserii armachani archiep. historia dogmatica controversiae inter orthodaros & pontificios de scripturis & sacris vernaculis , nunc primum edita . accesserunt ejusdem dissertationes de pseudo-dionysii scriptis , & de epistola ad laodicenos ante hac inedite . descripsit , digessit & notis atque auctuario completavit henricus wharton , a. m. r. archiep. cantuar. à sacris domest . o. a discourse concerning the unreasonableness of a new separation on account of the oaths . with an answer to the history of passive obedience . a discourse concerning the ecclesiastical commission opened in the ierusalem . chamber , octob. . . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e less . de iust. & iure , l. . c. n. . molina de iust. & iure , tr . . disp . . de cive c. . n. . arist. nic. l. . c. . sen. de clem. l. . c. . mutua quidem debet esse dominii & homagii fidelitatis connexio , ita quod quantum debet homo domino ex homagio , tantum illi debet dominus ex dominio praeter solam reverentiam . glanvil . l. . c. . bracton . l. . §. . cust. norm . c. . zoës . in dig. l. . tit. . n. jus publicum privatorum pactis mutari non potest . a. g. . magnates brit. regem vortigernum penitus deserentes , unanimiter filium suum in regem sublimaverunt . mat. west . p. , cum autem modis omnibus male tractaret eos , legesque antecessorum suorum propter commodum suum , vel depravaret , vel mutaret . matt. west . a. d. . h. huntingd. l. . p. . a g . gen. de regno merciorum , contra regem suum beornredum insurgens , pro eo quod populum non aequis legibus , sed per tyrannidem gubernaret , convenerant in unum omnes , tam nobiles quam ignobiles , & offa duce ipsum à regno expulerunt , mat. west . nam & ipse brithricus & caeteri infra inam reges licet natalium splendore gloriantes , ( quippe qui de cerdicio originem traherent ) non parum tamen à lineâ regiae stirpis exorbitaverant , will. malmsb. de gestis reg. angl l. . c. . regnum per inam novatum qui cinegisli ex fratre cuthbaldo pronepos magis pro insitlvae virtutis industria , quam successivae sobolis prosapia in principatum ascitur . id . ib. matth. west . a. d. , . mat. west . p. . bromton p. . w. malmsbur . l. . c. . p. . mat. west . a. d. . a. d. . mat. west . a. . bromton . p. . flor. wigorn . a. . a. . a. . florent . wigorn. a. d. . w. malm. l. . p. . . mat. west . a. d. , , a. . wil. malm. l. . p. . mat. west . a. . florent . a. . append. . ad vit . alt. bromton inter . script . p. . florentin . wigor . a. d. . h. huntin . l. . p . . malmsb. hist. novel . l. . p. , . . rad. de diceto , a. d. . matt. westm. a. . mat. paris . ib. gervas . a. d. . gul. neoburg . l. . c. . matt. westm. s. . rot. pa l. . h. . n. . n. . mat. west . a. . sixth part of the homily against wilful rebellion . mat. paris . f. . matt. westm. a. . mat. paris . a. . mat. paris . a. . l. . tacit. l. . tacit. ib. joseph . l. . c. . deut. . . neh. . . joseph . . c. . maccab. . . . . . . * principatum , quamvis neque occupare confetim , neque agere dubitâsset , et statione milirum , hoc est , vi et specie dominationis assumpta , diu tamen recusavit impudentissimo animo . sutton . c. . † sed defuncto augusto , signum praetoriis cohortibus , ut imperator dederat , excubiae , arma , catera aulae ; miles in forum , miles in curiam comitabat ; literas ad exercitus , ranquam adepto principatu misit ; nusquam cunctabundus nisi cum in senatu loqueretur . tacit. l. . dio. l. . dio l. . the bishop of worcester's charge to the clergy of his diocese, in his primary visitation begun at worcester, sept. , stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s a estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the bishop of worcester's charge to the clergy of his diocese, in his primary visitation begun at worcester, sept. , stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed for henry mortlock ..., london : . reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -- pastoral letters and charges. church of england -- clergy. visitations, ecclesiastical -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the bishop of worcester's charge to the clergy of his diocese , in his primary visitation , begun at worcester , sept. . . london , printed for henry mortlock , at the phenix in s. paul's church-yard . m dc xc i. to the reverend clergy of the diocese of worcester . my brethren , what i lately delivered among you in the several places of my visitation , and what i have since thought fit in some particulars to add , i have here put together , and sent it to you , that it might remain with you , not only as an instance of my duty , but as a monitor of your own . and i may reasonably hope , as well as desire , that the frequent reading and considering the things i here recommend to you , will make a deeper impression on your minds , than a mere transient discourse ; for i know nothing will more effectually preserve the honor and interest of the church of england , than a diligent and conscientious discharge of the duties of our several places . in this time of general liberty , our adversaries , of all kinds , think themselves let loose upon us ; and therefore we have the more reason to look to our selves , and to the flock committed to our charge . yet , i do not question , but through the goodness of god , and the serious and vigorous application of our minds to the great business of our high and holy calling , that church which we so justly value , will escape sinking in the quick-sands , as it hath hitherto , being dashed against the rocks . if we behave our selves with that prudence and zeal and circumspection which becomes us , i hope the inclinations of the people will never be made use of as an argument against us . for , although in a corrupt age , that be one of the weakest arguments in the world ( if it be true ) and only shews the prevalency of folly and faction ; yet there is no such way to prevent the spreading of both , as our constant care to instruct our people in the main duties of religion , and going before them in the ways of holyness and peace . in the following discourse , i have first endeavoured to assert and vindicate the authority of bishops in the christian church ; and in as few words , and with as much clearness as i could , i have proved their apostolical institution . and the judgment and practice of the universal church from the apostles times , will prevail with all unbyas'd persons above any modern violent inclinations to the contrary . in the next place i have recommended to you such things , which i am sure are much for the churches service and honour , as well as our own , and therefore , i hope you will the more regard them . in the last place , i have made it my design to clear several parts of the ecclesiastical law , which concerns church-men , and have shewed the nature , force , and extent of it ; and how agreeable it is to the common law of england . in these things , my aim was to do something towards the good of this church , and particularly of this diocese . and that the glory of god , the salvation of souls , and holiness and peace may be promoted therein , is the hearty prayer of westminst . jan. . / . your affectionate brother , and fellow-servant to our common lord , ed. wigorn. my brethren , this being my primary visitation , i thought it fitting to acquaint my self with the ancient as well as modern practice of episcopal visitations , and as near as i could , to observe the rules prescribed therein , with respect to the clergy , who are now summon'd to appear . and i find there were two principal parts in them , a charge and an enquiry . the charge was given by the bishop himself , and was called admonitio episcopi , or allocutio ; wherein he informed them of their duty , and exhorted them to perform it . the enquiry was made according to certain articles drawn out of the canons , which were generally the same ; according to which the juratores synodi ( as the ancient canonists call them ; or testes synodales ) were to give in their answers upon oath ; which was therefore called juramentum synodale ; for the bishop's visitation was accounted an episcopal synod . the former of these is my present business ; and i shall take leave to speak my mind freely to you , this first time , concerning several things which i think most useful , and fit to be considered and practised by the clergy of this diocess . for , since it hath pleased god , by his wise and over-ruling providence , ( without my seeking ) to bring me into this station in his church , i shall esteem in the best circumstance of my present condition , if he please to make me an instrument of doing good among you . to this end , i thought it necessary in the first place , most humbly to implore his divine assistance , that i might both rightly understand , and conscientiously perform that great duty which is incumbent upon me ; for without his help , all our thoughts are vain , and our best purposes will be ineffectual . but god is not wanting to those who sincerely endeavour to know , and to do their duty ; and therefore in the next place , i set my self ( as far as my health and other occasions would permit ) to consider the nature and extent of my duty ; with a resolution not to be discouraged , altho i met with difficulties in the performance of it . for such is the state and condition of the world , that no man can design to do good in it ; but when that crosses the particular interests and inclinations of others , he must expect to meet with as much trouble as their unquiet passions can give him . if we therefore consulted nothing but our own ease , the only way were to let people follow their humors and inclinations , and to be as little concerned as might be , at what they either say or do . for if we go about to rowze and awaken them , and much more to reprove and reform them , we shall soon find them uneasie and impatient ; for few love to hear of their faults , and fewer to amend them . but it is the peculiar honour of the christan religion , to have an order of men , set apart , not merely as priests , to offer sacrifices ( for that all religions have had ) but as preachers of righteousness , to set good and evil before the people committed to their charge ; to inform them of their duties , to reprove them for their miscarriages ; and that , not in order to their shame , but their reformation : which requires not only zeal , but discretion , and a great mixture of courage and prudence , that we may neither fail in doing our duty , nor in the best means of attaining the end of it . if we could reasonably suppose , that all those who are bound to tell others their duties , would certainly do their own , there would be less need of any such office in the church as that of bishops ; who are to inspect , and govern , and visit , and reform those who are to watch over others . but since there may be too great failings even in these ; too great neglect in some , and disorder in others ; too great proneness to faction and schism , and impatience of contradiction from mere equals ; therefore s. jerom himself grants , that to avoid these mischiefs , there was a necessity of a superior order to presbyters in the church of god ; ad quem omnis ecclesiae cura pertineret , & schismatum seminatollerentur ; as he speaks , even where he seems most to lessen the authority of bishops . but whatever some expressions of his may be , ( when the bishop of jerusalem and the roman deacons came into his head ) his reasons are very much for the advantage of episcopal government . for can any man say more in point of reason for it , than that nothing but faction and disorder followed the government of presbyters , and therefore the whole christian church agreed in the necessity of a higher order , and that the peace and safety of the church depends upon it ; that if it be taken away , nothing but schisms and confusions will follow . i wish those who magnifie s. jerom's authority in this matter , would submit to his reason and authority both , as to the necessity and usefulness of the order of bishops in the church . but beyond this , in several places , he makes the bishops to be successors of the apostles , as well as the rest of the most eminent fathers of the church have done . if the apostolical office , as far as it concerns the care and government of churches , were not to continue after their decease , how came the best , the most learned , the nearest to the apostolical times , to be so wonderfully deceived ? for if the bishops did not succeed by the apostles own appointment , they must be intruders and usurpers of the apostolical function ; and can we imagine the church of god would have so uniuersally consented to it ? besides , the apostles did not die all at once ; but there were successors in several of the apostolical churches , while some of the apostles were living ; can we again imagine , those would not have vindicated the right of their own order , and declared to the church , that this office was peculiar to themselves ? the change of the name from apostles to bishops , would not have been sufficient excuse for them ; for the presumption had been as great in the exercise of the power without the name . so that i can see no medium , but that either the primitive bishops did succeed the apostles by their own appointment and approbation , ( which irenaeus expresly affirms , qui ab apostolis ipsis instituti sunt episcopi in ecclesiis ) or else those who governed the apostolical churches after them , outwent diotrephes himself ; for he only rejected those whom the apostle sent ; but these assumed to themselves the exercise of an apostolical authority over the churches planted and settled by them . but to let us see how far the apostles were from thinking that this part of their office was peculiar to themselves , we find them in their own time , as they saw occasion , to appoin r others to take care of the government of the churches , within such bounds as they thought fit . thus timothy was appointed by st. paul at ephesus , to examine the qualifications of such as were to be ordained ; and not to lay hands suddenly on any ; to receive accusations , if there were cause , even against elders , to proceed judicially before two or three witnesses ; and if there were reason , to give them a publick rebuke . and that this ought not to be thought a slight matter , he presently adds , i charge thee before god , and the lord jesus christ , and the elect angels , that thou observe these things , without prefetring one before another , doing nothing by partiality . here is a very strict and severe charge for the impartial exercise of discipline in the church upon offenders . and although in the epistle to titus , he be only in general required to set in order the things that are wanting , and to ordain elders in every city , as he had appointed him ; yet we are not to suppose , that this power extended not to a jurisdiction over them when he had ordained them . for if any of those whom he ordained ( as believing them qualified according to the apostles rules ) should afterwards demeam themselves otherwise ; and be self willed , froward , given to wine , brawlens , covetous , or any way scandalous to the church , can we believe that titus was not as well bound to correct them afterwards , as to examine them before ? and what was this power of ordination and jurisdiction , but the very same which the bishops have exercised ever since the apostles times ? but they who go about to unbishop timothy and titus ; may as well unscripture the epistles that were written to them ; and make them only some particular and occasional writings , as they make timothy and titus to have been only some particular and occasional officers . but the christian church preserving these epistles , as of constant and perpetual use , did thereby suppose the same kind of office to continue , for the sake whereof those excellent epistles were written : and we have no greater assurance that these epistles were written by st. paul , than we have that there were bishops to succeed the apostles in the care and government of churches . having said thus much to clear the authority we act by , i now proceed to consider the rules by which we are to govern our selves . every bishop of this church , in the time of his consecration , makes a solemn profession , among other things , that he will not only maintain and set forward , as much as lies in him , quietness , love and peace among all men ; but that he will correct and punish such as be unquiet , disobedient and criminous within his diocess , according to such authority as he hath by god's word , and to him shall be committed by the ordinance of this realm . so that we have two rules to proceed by , viz. the word of god , and the ecclesiastical law of this realm . ( . ) by the word of god ; and that requires from us , diligence , and care , and faithfulness , and impartiality , remembring the account we must give , that we may do it with joy , and not with grief . and we are not merely required to correct and punish , but to warn and instruct , and exhort the persons under our care , to do those things which tend most to the honour of our holy religion , and the church whereof we are members . and for these ends there are some things i shall more particularly recommend to you. ( . ) that you would often consider the solemn charge that was given you , and the profession you madeof yourresolution to do yourduty at your ordination . i find by the provincial constitution of this church , that the bishops were to have their solemn profession read over to them twice in the year , to put them in mind of their duty . and in the legatine constitutions of otho , ( h. . ) the same constitution is renewed , not merely by a legatine power , but by consent of the archbishops , and bishops of both provinces ; wherein it is declared , that bishops ought to visit their diocesses at fit times , correcting and reforming what was amiss , and sowing the word of life in the lord's field ; and to put them the more in mind of it , they were twice in the year to have their solemn profession read to them ; it seems then , that profession contained these things in it ; or else the reading that could not stir them up to do these things . what the profession was which presbyters then made at their ordination , we have not so clear an account , but in the same council at oxford , h. . it is strictly enjoined , that all rectors and vicars should instruct the people committed to their charge , and feed them , pabulo verbi dei , with the food of gods word ; and it is introduced with that expression , that they might excite the parochial clergy to be more diligent in what was most proper for those times . and if they do it not , they are there called canes muti : and lyndwood bestows many other hard terms upon them , which i shall not mention ; but he saith afterward , those who do it not , are but like idols , which bear the similitude of a man , but do not the offices proper to men. nay , he goes so far as to say , that the spiritual food of god's word is as necessary to the health of the soul , as corporal food is to the health of the body . which words are taken out of a preface to a canon in the decretals de officio jud. ordinarii , inter caetera . but they serve very well to shew how much even in the dark times of popery , they were then convinced of the necessity and usefulness of preaching . these constitutions were slighted so much , that in edw. i the offices of preaching was sunk so low , that in a † provincial constitution at that time , great complaint is made of the ignorance and stupidity of the parochial clergy , that they rather made the people worse than better . but at that time the preaching friers had got that work into their hands by particular privileges , where it is well observed , that they did not go to places which most needed their help ; but to cities and corporations , where they found most incouragement . but what remedy was found by this provincial council ? truly , every parochial priest four times a year was bound to read an explication of the creed , ten commandments , the two precepts of charity , the seven works of mercy , the seven deadly sins , the seven principal vertues , and the seven sacraments . this was renewed in the province of york , ( which hath distinct provincial constitutions ) in the time of edw. . and here was all they were bound to by these constitutions . but when wicliff and his followers had awakened the people so far , that there was no satisfying them without preaching , then a new provinciat constitution was made under arundel , archbishop of canterbury ; and the former constitution was restrained to parochial priests who officiated as curates ; but several others were authorised to preach ; as ( . ) the mendicant friars were said to be authorised jure communi ; or rather privilegio speciali , ( but therefore lyndwood saith , it is said to be jure communi , because that privilege is recorded in the text of the canon law ) these were not only allowed to preach in their own churches , but in plateis publicis , saith lyndwood , out of the canon law ( wherein those words were expressed ) , and at any hour , unless it were the time of preaching in other churches ; but other orders , as augustinians and carmelites , had no such general licence . those preaching friars were a sort of licensed preachers at that time , who had no cures of souls ; but they were then accounted a kind of pastors . for jo. de athon distinguisheth two sorts of pastors ; those who had ecclesiastical offices , and those who had none ; but were such only verbo & exemplo ; but they gave very great disturbance to the clergy , as the pope himself confesses in the canon law. ( . ) legal incumbents authorised to preach in their own parishes jure scripto . all persons who had cures of souls , and legal titles were said to be missi à jure ad locum & populum curae suae , and therefore might preach to their own people without a special licence ; but if any one preached in other parts of the diocess , or were a stranger in it , then he was to be examined by the diocesan , and if he were found tam moribus quam scientia idoneus , he might send him to preach to one or more parishes , as he thought meet ; and he was to shew his licence to the incumbent of the place before he was to be permitted to preach , under the episcopal seal . and thus , as far as i can find , the matter stood as to preaching , before the reformation . after it , when the office of ordination was reviewed and brought nearer to the primitive form ; and instead of delivering the chalice and patten , with these words , accipe potestatem offerre deo sacrificium , &c. the bishop delivered the bible with these words , take thou authority to preach the word of god , and to minister the holy sacraments in the congregation , &c. the priests exhortation was made agreeable thereto , wherein he exhorts the persons in the name of our lord jesus christ , to consider the weight and importance of the office and charge they are called to ; not barely to instruct those who are already of christ's flock ; but to endeavour the salvation of those who are in the midst of this naughty world. and therefore he perswades and charges them from a due regard to christ , who suffered for his sheep , and to the church of christ , which is so dear to him , to omit no labor , care , or diligence in instructing and reforming those who are committed to their charge . and the better to enable them to perform these things , there are some duties especially recommended to them , viz. prayer and study of the holy scriptures , according to which that they are to instruct others , and to order their own lives , and of those who belong to them . and that they might the better attend so great a work , they are required to forsake and set aside ( as much as they may ) all worldly cares and studies , and apply themselves wholly to this one thing , that they may save themselves and them that hear them . after which follows the solemn profession , wherein they undertake to do these things . this is that , my brethren , which i earnestly desire of you that you would often consider . you are not at liberty now , whether you will do these things or not ; for you are under a most solemn engagement to it . you have put your hands to the plow , and it is too late to think of looking back ; and you all know the husbandman's work is laborious and painful , and continually returning . it is possible after all his pains , the harvest may not answer his expectation ; but yet if he neither plows nor sows , he can expect no return ; if he be idle and careless , and puts off the main of his work to others , can he reasonably look for the same success ? believe it , all our pains are little enough to awake the sleepy and secure sinners , to instruct the ignorant , to reclaim the vitious , to rebuke the profane , to convince the erroneous , to satisfie the doubtful , to confirm the wavering , to recover the lapsed , and to be useful to all , according to their feveral circumstances and conditions . it is not to preach a sermon or two in a weeks time to your parishoners , that is the main of your duty ; that is no such difficult task , if men apply their minds as they ought to do to divine matters , and do not spend their retirements in useless studies ; but the great difficulty lies in watching over your flock , i. e. knowing their condition , and applying your selves suitably to them . he that is a stranger to his flock , and only visits them now and then , can never be said to watch over it ; he may watch over the fleeces ; but he understands little of the state of his flock , viz. of the distempers they are under , and the remedies proper for them . the casuists say , that the reason why there is no command for personal residence in scripture , is , because the nature of the duty it self requires it ; for if a person be required to do such things which cannot be done without it , residence is implyed . as a pilot to a ship needs no command to be in his ship ; for how can he do the office of a pilot out of it ? let none think to excuse themselves by saying that our church only takes them for curates , and that the bishops have the pastoral charge ; for , by our old provincial constitutions ( which are still in force so far as they are not repugnant to the law of the land ) even those who have the smallest cures are called pastors ; and lyndwood there notes , that parochialis sacerdos dicitur pastor ; and that not merely by way of allusion , but in respect of the care of souls . but we need not go so far back . for what is it they are admitted to ? is it not ad curam animarum ? did not they promise in their ordination , to teach the people committed to their care and charge ? the casuists distinguish a threefold cure of souls . . in foro interiori tantum , and this they say is the parochial cure. . in foro exteriori tantum , where there is authority to perform ministerial acts , as to suspend , excommunicate , absolve , ( sine pastorali curâ : ) and this archdeacons have by virtue of their office. . in utroque simul ? where there is a special care , together with jurisdiction : this is the bishops . and every one of these , say they , secundum commune jus canonicum , is obliged to residence ; i. e. by the common law ecclesiastical ; of which more afterwards . the obligation is to perpetual residence , but as it is in other positive duties , there may other duties intervene , which may take away the present force of it ; as care of health , necessary business , publick service of the king , or church , &c. but then we are to observe , that no dispensation can justifie a man in point of conscience , unless there be a sufficient cause ; and no custom can be sufficient again the natural equity of the case , whereby every one is bound from the nature of the office he hath undertaken . i confess the case in reason is different , where there is a sufficient provision by another fit person , and approved by those who are to take care that places be well supplied , and where there is not ; but yet , this doth not take off the force of the personal obligation , arising from undertaking the cure themselves , which the ecclesiastical law understands to be , not merely by promise , but cum effectu , as the canonists speak ; which implies personal-residence . not that they are never to be away ; non sic amare intelligi debet ut nunquam inde recedat , saith lyndwood ; but these words are to be understood civili modo , as he expresses it , i. e. not without great reason . there must not be , saith he , callida interpretatio sed talis ut cessent fraudes & negligentiae ; i. e. there must be no art used to evade the law , nor any gross neglect of it . it 's true , the canonists have distinguished between rectoriēs and vicarages , as to personal residence ; but we are to consider these things . . the canon law strictly obliges every one that hath a parochial cure to perpetual residence ; and excepts only two cases , when the living is annexed to a prebend or dignity ; and then he who hath it , is to have a perpetual vicar instituted , with a sufficient maintenance . . after this liberty obtained for dignified persons to have vicars endowed in their places , the point of residence was strictly injoyned to them : and we find in the provincial constitutions a difference made between personatus and vicaria ; but this was still meant of a vicarage endowed . this was in the time of stephen langton , archbishop of canterbury ; and in another constitution he required an oath of personal residence from all such vicars , altho' the place were not above the value of five marks ; which , as appears by lyndwood else where , was then sufficient for maintenance and hospitality . and to cover the shameful dispensations that were commonly granted to the higher clergy , under pretence of the papal power , the poor vicars by a constitution of otho , were bound to take a strict oath of continual residence ; and without it their institution was declared to be null . but even in that case the gloss there saith , that they may be some time absent for the benefit of the church or state ; but not for their own particular advantage . . the obligation in point of conscience remains the same , but dispensing with laws may take away the penalty of non-residence in some cases . joh. de athon , canon of lincoln , who wrote the glosses on the legatine constitutions , doth not deny , but that rectors are as well bound to residence as vicars ; but these are more strictly tied by their oath , and because a vicar cannot appoint a vicar , but a parson may . and altho that name among some be used as a term of reproach , yet in former ages personatus and dignitas were the same thing ; and so used here in england in the time of henry ii. but afterwards it came to be applied to him that had the possession of a parochial benefice in his own immediate right ; and was therefore bound to take care of it . for the obligation must in reason be supposed to go along with the advantage ; however local statutes may have taken off the penalty . ii. when you have thus considered the obligation which lies upon you , to take care of your elock , let me in the next place recommend to you a plain , useful , and practical way of preaching among them . i mean , such as is most likely to do good upon them ( which certainly ought to be the just measure of preaching . ) i do not mean therefore a loose and careless way of talking in the pulpit , which will neither profit you , nor those that hear you . he that once gets an ill habit of speaking extempore , will be tempted to continue it by the easiness of it to himself , and the plausibleness of it to less judicious people . there is on the other side a closeness and strength of reasoning , which is too elaborate for common understandings ; and there is an affected fineness of expression , which by no means becomes the pulpit : but it seems to be like stroaking the consciences of people by feathers dipt in oil. and there is a way of putting scripture phrases together without the sense of them , which those are the most apt to admire , who understand them least : but for those who have not improved their minds by education , the plainest way is certainly ●he best and hardest , provided , it be not flat , and dry , and incoherent , or desultory , going from one thing to another , without pursuing any particular point home to practice , and applying it to the consciences of the hearers . and give me leave to tell you , that mere general discourses have commonly little effect on the peoples minds ; if any thing moves them , it is particular application as to such things which their consciences are concerned in . and here i must recommend to you the pursuing the design of his majesties letter , which hath been some time since communicated to you ; by it you are required to preach at some times on those particular vices which you observe to be most prevalent in the places you relate to , such as drunkenness , whoredom , swearing , profaning the lord's day , &c. if ever we hope to reform them , you must throughly convince them , that what they do is displeasing to god. and there are two sorts of men you are to deal with , . profane scoffers at religion . these seldom trouble you ; but if any good be to be done upon them , it is by plain and evident proofs of the good and evil of moral actions . for , as long as they think them indifferent , they will never regard what you say , as to the rewards or punishments of them . . stupid and sensless people , whose minds are wholly sunk into the affairs of the world , buying and selling , and getting gain . it is a very hard thing to get a thought into them above these matters . and whatever you talk of mere religion , and another life , is like metaphysicks to them ; they understand you not , and take no care to do it : but if you can convince them , that they live in the practice of great sins , which they shall certainly suffer for , if they do not repent , they may possibly be awakened this way ; if not , nothing but immediate grace can work upon them ; which must work on the will , whatever becomes of the understanding . iii. after preaching , let me intreat you to look after catechising and instructing the youth of your parishes . he that would reform the world to purpose , must begin with the youth ; and train them up betimes , in the ways of religion and virtue . there is far less probability of prevailing on those who have accustomed themselves to vicious habits , and are hardened in their wickedness . it seems strange to some , that considering the shortness of human life , mankind should be so long before they come to maturity ; the best account i know of it is , that there is so much longer time for the care of their education , to instil the principles of virtue and religion into them , thereby to soften the fierceness , to direct the weakness , to govern the inclinations of mankind . it is truly a sad consideration that christian parents are so little sensible of their duties , as to the education of their children ; when those who have had only natural reason to direct them , have laid so much weight upon it . without it , plato saith , that mankind grew the most unruly of all creatures . aristotle , that as by nature they are capable of being the best , so being neglected , they become the worst of animals , i. e. when they are brought up without virtue . education and virtue , saith he , is a great thing , yea , it is all in all , and without it they will be much worse than beasts . the main care of the education of children must lie upon parents ; but yet ministers ought not only to put them in mind . of their duty , but to assist them all they can , and by publick catechising , frequently to instruct both those who have not learned , and those who are ashamed to learn any other way . and you must use the best means you can to bring them into an esteem of it ; which is by letting them see , that you do it , not merely because you are required to do it , but because it is a thing so useful and beneficial to them , and to their children . there is a great deal of difference between peoples being able to talk over a set of phrases , about religious matters , and understanding the true grounds of religion ; which are easiest learned , and understood , and remembered in the short catechetical way . but i am truly sorry to hear , that where the clergy are willing to take pains this way , the people are unwilling to send their children . they would not be unwilling to hear them instructed , as early as might be , in the way to get an estate , but would be very thankful to those who would do them such a kindness ; and therefore it is really a contempt of god and religion , and another world , which makes them so backward to have their children taught the way to it . and methinks those who have any zeal for the reformation should love and pursue that which came into request with it . indeed the church of rome it self hath been made so sensible of the necessity of it ; that even the council of trent doth not only require catechising children , but the bishops to proceed with ecclesiastical censures against those who neglect it . but in the old provincial constitutions i can find but one injunction about catechising ; and that is when the priest doubts whether the children were baptized or not ; and if they be born eight days before easter and whitsuntide , they are not to be baptized till those days , and in the mean time they are to receive catechism . what is this receiving catechism by children , before they are eight days old ? it is well exorcism is joyned with it ; and so we are to understand by it the interrogatories in baptism : and lyndwood saith , the catechism is not only required for instruction in faith , but propter sponsionem , when the godfather answers , de fidei observantiâ . it is true the canon law requires in adult persons chatechising before baptism ; but i find nothing of the catechising children after it ; and no wonder , since lynd. wood faith , the laity are bound to no more than to believe as the church believes ; nor the clergy neither , unless they can bear the charges of studying , and have masters to instruct them . this was good doctrin , when the design was to keep people in ignorance . for learning is an irrecøncileable enemy to the fundamental policy of the roman church ; and it was that which brought in the reformation , since which a just care hath still been required for the instruction of youth ; and the fifty ninth canon of our church is very strict in it , which i desire you often to consider with the first rubrick after the catechism , and to act accordingly . iv. after catechizing , i recommend to you the due care of bringing the children of your parishes to confirmation . which would be of excellent use in the church , if the several ministers would take that pains about it , which they ought to do . remember that you are required to bring or send in writing , with your names subscribed , the names of all such persons in your parish , as you shall think fit to be presented to the bishop to be confirmed . if you take no care about it , and suffer them to come unprepared for so great , so solemn a thing , as renewing the promise and vow made in baptism , can you think your selves free from any guilt in it ? in the church of rome indeed great care was taken to hasten confirmation of children all they could : post baptismum quam citius poterint , as it is in our constitution provincial ; in another synodical , the parochial priests are charged to tell their parishioners , that they ought to get their children confirmed as soon as they can . in a synod at worcester , under walter de cantilupo , in the time of henry iii. the sacrament of confirmation is declared necessary for strength against the power of darkness ; and therefore it was called sacramentum pugnantium : and no wonder then that the parochial priests should be called upon so earnestly to bring the children to confirmation ; and the parents were to be forbidden to enter into the church , if they neglected it for a year after the birth of the child , if they had opportunity . the synod of exeter allowed two years , and then if they were not confirmed , the parents were to fast every friday , with bread and water , till it were done . and to the same purpose , the synod of winchester in the time of edw. i. in the constitutions of richard bishop of sarum , two years were allowed , but that time was afterwards thought too long ; and then the priest as well as the parents was to be suspended from entrance into the church . but what preparation was required ? none that i can find : but great care is taken about the fillets to bind their heads to receive the unction , and the taking them off at the font , and burning them , lest they should be used for witchcraft , as lyndwood informs us . but we have no such customs nor any of the reformed churches ; we depend not upon the opus operatum , but suppose a due and serious preparation of mind necessary , and a solemn performance of it . i hope , by god's assistance , to be able , in time , to bring the performance of this office into a better method ; in the mean time , i shall not fail doing my duty , have you a care you do not fail in yours . v. as to the publick offices of the church , i do not only recommend to you a due care of the diligent but of the devout performance of them . i have often wondered how a fixed and stated liturgy for general use , should become a matter of scruple and dispute among any in a christian church ; unless there be something in christianity which makes it unlawful to pray together for things which we all understand beforehand to be the subject of our prayers . if our common necessities and duties are the same ; if we have the same blessings to pray and to thank god for in our solemn devotions , why should any think it unlawful or unfitting to use the same expressions ? is god pleased with the change of our words and phrases ? can we imagine the holy spirit is gi ven to dictate new expressions in prayers ? then they must pray by immediate inspiration ( which i think they will not pretend to , lest all the mistakes and incongruities of such prayers be imputed to the holy ghost ) , but if not , then they are left to their own conceptions , and the spirits assistance is only in the exciting the affections and motions of the soul towards the things prayed for ; and if this be allowed , it is impossible to give a reason why the spirit of god may not as well excite those inward desires , when the words are the same as when they are different . and we are certain , that from the apostles times downwards , no one church or society of christians can be produced , who held it unlawful to pray by a set form. on the other side , we have very early proofs of some common forms of prayer , which were generally used in the christian churches , and were the foundations of those ancient liturgies , which , by degrees , were much enlarged . and the interpolations of latter times , do no more overthrow the antiquity of the ground-work of them , than the large additions to a building , do prove there was no house before . it is an easie matter to say that such liturgies could not be s. james's or s. mark 's , because of such errors and mistakes , and interpolations of things and phrases of latter times ; but what then ? is this an argument ; there were no ancient liturgies in the churches of jerusalem or alexandria ; when so long since , as in origen's time we find an entire collect produced by him out of the alexandrian liturgy ? and the like may be shewed as to other churches , which by degrees came to have their liturgies much inlarged by the devout prayers of some extraordinary men , such as s. basil and s. chrysostom in the eastern churches . but my design is not to vindicate our use of an excellent liturgy , but to put you upon the using it in such manner , as may most recommend it to the people . i mean with that gravity , seriousness , attention , and devotion , which becomes so solemn a duty as prayer to god is . it will give too just a cause of prejudice to our prayers , if the people observe you to be careless and negligent about them ; or to run them over with so great haste , as if you minded nothing so much as to get to the end of them . if you mind them so little your selves , they will think themselves excused , if they mind them less . i could heartily wish , that in greater places , especially in such towns where there are people more at liberty , the constant morning and evening prayers were duly and devoutly read ; as it is already done with good success in london , and some other cities . by this means religion will gain ground , when the publick offices are daily performed ; and the people will be more acquainted with scripture , in hearing the lessons , and have a better esteem of the prayers , when they become their daily service , which they offer up to god as their morning and evening sacrifice ; and the design of our church will be best answered , which appoints the order for morning and evening prayer daily to be said , and used throughout the year . vi. as to the dissenters from the church ; the present circumstances of our affairs require a more than ordinary prudence in your behaviour towards them . it is to no purpose to provoke or exasperate them , since they will be but so much more your emies for it ; and if you seem to court them too much , they will interpret your kindness to be a liking their way better than your own ; so that were it not for some worldly interest , you would be just what they are ; which is in effect to say , you would be men of conscience , if ye had a little more honesty . for they can never think those honest men , who comply with things against their consciences , only for their temporal advantage ; but they may like them as men of a party , who under some specious colours promote their interest . for my own part , as i do sincerely value and esteem the church of england ( and i hope ever shall ) , so i am not against such a due temper towards them , as is consistent with the preserving the constitution of our church . but if any think , under a pretence of liberty , to undermine and destroy it , we have reason to take the best care we can , in order to its preservation . i do not mean by opposing laws , or affronting authority , but by countermining them in the best way ; i. e. by outdoing them in those things which make them most popular , if they are consistent with integrity and a good conscience . if they gain upon the people by an appearance of more than ordinary zeal for the good of souls ; i would have you to go beyond them in a true and hearty concernment for them ; not in irregular heats and passions , but in the meekness of wisdom ; in a calm and sedate temper ; in doing good even to them who most despightfully reproach you , and withdraw themselves and the people from you . if they get an interest among them by industry , and going from place to place , and family to family ; i hope you will think it your duty to converse more freely and familiarly with your own people . be not strangers , and you will make them friends . let them see by your particular application to them , that you do not despise them . for men love to value those who seem to value them ; and if you once slight them , you run the hazard of making them your enemies . it is some tryal of a christians patience as well as humility , to condescend to the weaknesses of others ; but where it is our duty , we must do it , and that chearfully , in order to the best end , viz. doing the more good upon them . and all condescension and kindness for such an end , is true wisdom , as well as humility . i am afraid distance and too great stiffness of behaviour towards them , have made some more our enemies than they would have been . i hope they are now convinced , that the persecution which they complained lately so much of , was carried on by other men , and for other designs than they would then seem to believe . but that persecution was then a popular argument for them ; for , the complaining side hath always the most pity . but now that is taken off , you may deal with them on more equal terms . now there is nothing to affright them , and we think we have reason enough on our side to persuade them . the case of separation stands just as it did in point of conscience , which is not now one jot more reasonable or just than it was before . some think severity makes men consider ; but i am afraid it heats them too much , and makes them too violent and refractory . you have more reason to fear now , what the interest of a party will do , than any strength of argument . how very few among them understand any reason at all for their separation ! but education , prejudice , authority of their teachers sway them ; remove these and you convince them . and in order thereto , acquaint your selves with them , endeavour to oblige them , let them see you have no other design upon them , but to do them good ; if any thing will gain upon them , this will. but if after all , they grow more headstrong and insolent by the indulgence which the law gives them ; then observe , whether they observe those conditions on which the law gives it to them . for these are known rules in law , that he forfeits his privilege who goes beyond the bounds of it ; that no privileges are to be extended beyond the bounds which the laws give them ; for they ought to be observed as they are given . i leave it to be considered , whether all such who do not observe the conditions of the indulgence , be not as liable to the law as if they had none . but there is a very profane abuse of this liberty among some , as though it were an indulgence not to serve god at all . such as these , as they were never intended by the law , so they ought to enjoy no benefit by it . for this were to countenance profaneness and irreligion ; which i am afraid will grow too much upon us , unless some effectual care be taken to suppress it . vii . there is another duty incumbent upon you , which i must particularly recommend to your care , and that is , of visiting the sick. i do not mean barely to perform the office prescribed , which is of very good use , and ought not to be neglected ; but a particular application of your selves to the state and condition of the persons you visit . it is no hard matter to run over some prayers , and so take leave ; but this doth not come up to the design of our church in that office : for , after the general exhortation and profession of the christian faith , our church requires , that the sick person be moved to make special confession of his sins , if he feel his conscience troubled with any weighty matter ; and then if the sick person humbly and heartily desires it , he is to be absolved after this manner , our lord jesus christ , who hath left power in his church to absolve all sinners who truly repent and believe in him , &c. where the power of absolution is grounded upon the supposition of true faith and repentance ; and therefore , when it is said afterwards , and by his authority committed to me , i absolve thee from the same , &c. it must proceed on the same supposition . for the church cannot absolve when god doth not . so that all the real comfort of the absolution depends upon the satisfaction of the person 's mind , as to the sincerity of his repentance and faith in christ. now here lies the great difficulty of this office ; how to give your selves and the wounded conscience satisfaction , as to the sincerity of those acts ; i do not mean as to the sincerity of his present thoughts , but as to the acceptableness of his faith and repentance with god in order to remission of sins . but what if you find the persons so ignorant , as not to understand what faith and repentance mean ? what if they have led such careless and secure lives in this world , as hardly ever to have had one serious thought of another ? is nothing to be done but to come and pray by them , and so dismiss them into their eternal state ? is this all the good you can , or are bound to do them ? i confess , it is a very uncomfortable thing to tell men how they are to begin to live , when they are liker to dye than to live ( and the people generally have a strange superstitious fear of sending for the minister , while there is any hope of recovery ) . but at last you are sent for ; and what a melancholy work are you then to go about ? you are , it may be , to make a man sensible of his sins , who never before considered what they were , or against whom they were committed , or what eternal misery he deserves by committing them . but i will suppose the best i can in this case , viz. that by your warm and serious discourse , you throughly awaken the conscience of a long and habitual sinner ; what are you then to do ? will you presently apply all the promises of grace and salvation to one whose conscience is awakened only with the fears of death , and the terrors of a day of judgment ? this , i confess , is a hard case ; on the one side , we must not discourage good beginnings in any ; we must not cast an awakened sinner into despair ; we must not limit the infinite mercy of god : but on the other side , we must have a great care of encouraging presumptuous sinners to put off their repentance to the last , because then upon confession of their sins , they can so easily obtain the churches absolution , which goes no farther , than truly repenting and believing . but here is the difficulty , how we can satisfie our selves that these do truly repent and believe ; who are out of a capacity of giving proof of their sincerity by amendment of life ? i do not question the sincerity of their present purposes ; but how often do we find those to come to nothing , when they recover and fall into the former temptations ? how then shall they know their own sincerity till it be tryed ? how can it be tryed , when they are going out of the state of tryal ? the most we can do , is to encourage them to do the best they can in their present condition , and to shew as many of the fruits of true repentance as their circumstances will allow ; and with the greatest humility of mind , and most earnest supplications to implore the infinite mercy of god to their souls . but besides these , there are many cases of sick persons , which require very particular advice and spiritual direction , which you ought to be able to give them , and it cannot be done without some good measure of skill and experience in casuistical divinity . as , how to satisfie a doubting conscience , as to its own sincerity , when so many infirmities are mixed with our best actions ? how a sinner who hath relapsed after repentance can be satisfied of the truth of his repentance , when he doth not know , but he may farther relapse upon fresh temptations ? how , he shall know what failings are consistent with the state of grace , and the hopes of heaven , and what not ? what measure of conviction and power of resistance is necessary to make sins to be wilful and presumptuous ? what the just measures of restitution are in order to true repentance , in all such injuries which are capable of it ? i might name many others , but these i only mention to shew how necessary it is for you to apply your selves to moral and casuistical divinity , and not to content your selves barely with the knowledg of what is called positive and controversial . i am afraid there are too many who think they need to look after no more than what qualifies them for the pulpit ; ( and i wish all did take sufficient care of that ) but if we would do our duty as we ought , we must inquire into , and be able to resolve cases of conscience . for the priests lips should keep this kind of knowledge ; and the people should seek the law at his mouth ; for he is the messenger of the lord of hosts , mal. . . if this held in the levitical priesthood , much more certainly under the gospel , where the rates and measures of our duties are not to be determined by levitical precepts , but by the general reason and nature of moral actions . viii . among the duties of publick worship , i must put you in mind of a frequent celebration of the lords supper . there is generally too great a neglect of this , which is the most proper part of evangelical worship . the duties of prayers and praises , are excellent and becoming duties , as we are creatures with respect to our maker and preserver . the duty of hearing the word of god read and explained , is consequent upon our owning it to be the rule of our faith and manners ; and all who desire to understand and practise their duty , can never despise or neglect it . but that solemn act of worship wherein we do most shew our selves christians , is the celebrating the holy eucharist . for , therein we own and declare the infinite love of god in sending his son into the world to die for sinners , in order to their salvation ; and that this is not only a true saying , but worthy of all men to be credited . therein , we lift up our hearts , and give thanks to our lord god ; we joyn with angels and archangels in lauding and magnifying his glorious name . therein , we not only commemorate the death and sufferings of our lord , but are made partakers of his body and blood , after a real , but sacramental manner . therein we offer up our selves to god , to be a reasonable , holy and lively sacrifice unto him . therein we adore and glorifie the ever blessed trinity ; and humbly implore the grace and assistance of our ever blessed mediator . and what now is there in all this , which is not very agreeable to the faith , hope , and charity of christians ? nay , what duty is there , which so much expresses all these together , as this doth ? nor , whereby we may more reasonably expect greater supplies of divine grace to be bestowed upon us ? what then makes so many to be so backward in this duty , which profess a zeal and forwardness in many others ? if we had that warmth and fervor of devotion , that love to christ , and to each other , which the primitive christians had , we should make it as constant a part of our publick worship , as they did ; but this is not to be expected . neither did it always continue in the primitive church , when liberty , and ease , and worldly temptations made persons grow more remiss and careless in the solemn duties of their religion . s. chrysostom takes notice in his time of the different behaviour of persons , with respect to the holy eucharist . there were some who pretended to greater holiness and austerity of life than others , who withdrew from the common conversation of mankind , and so by degrees from joining in the acts of publick worship with them . which did unspeakable mischief to christianity ; for then the perfection of the christian life , was not supposed to consist in the active part of it , but in retirement and contemplation . as tho our highest imitation of christ lay in following him into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil ; and not in walking as he walked , who frequented the synagogues , and went about doing good . but this way of retirement happening to be admired by some great men , the publick worship came to be in less esteem ; and others upon reasons of a different nature withdrew themselves from such acts of devotion as required a stricter attendance , and a more prepared temper of mind . and there were some who did abstain , because they were not so well satisfied with themselves as to their own preparations ; and such as these s. chrysostom seems to favor , rather than such who came often without due care , as to the whole course of their lives ; only out of custom , or out of regard to the orders of the church . from hence many thought it better to forbear , as long as they did it not out of contempt . and so by degrees the people were content to look on it as a sacrifice for them to be performed by others , rather than as an office , wherein they were to bear a part themselves ; at least , they thought once or thrice a year sufficient for them . and to this , as appears by our old provincial constitutions , they were forced by severe canons . when the reformation began , this disuse of this holy sacrament , was looked on , by the chief reformers , as a great abuse and corruption crept into the church , which ought by all means to be reformed ; and the frequent celebration of it set up in the reformed churches . but unreasonable scruples in some , and misapprehensions in others , and a general coldness and indifference , as to matters of religion , have hitherto hindered the reviving this primitive part of devotion among us . i do not go about to determine the frequency in your parishes , which the scripture doth not as to the christian church , but supposes it to be often done ; but i may require you to take care , that christ's institution be observed among you ; and that with your utmost care , both as to the decency and purity of it . the last thing i recommend to you all , is , to have a great care of your conversations . i do not speak it out of a distrust of you ; i hope you do it already : and your case will be so much worse , if you do it not , because you very well know how much you ought to do it . for the honor of god and religion , and the success of your ministry , as well as your own salvation , depend very much upon it . lead your flock by your example , as well as by your doctrine , and then you may much better hope that they will follow you ; for the people are naturally spies upon their ministers , and if they observe them to mind nothing but the world all the week , they will not believe them in earnest , when on the lord's days they persuade them against it . and it takes off the weight of all reproof of other mens faults , if those they reprove have reason to believe them guilty of the same . i do not think it enough for a preacher of righteousness merely to avoid open and scandalous sins , but he ought to be a great example to others in the most excellent virtues which adorn our profession , not only in temperance and chastity , in justice and ordinary charity , but in a readiness to do good to all , in forgiving injuries , in loving enemies , in evenness of temper , in humility and meekness , and patience , and submission to god's will , and in frequent retirements from the world , not merely for study , but for devotion . if by these and such things you shine as lights among your people , they will be more ready to follow your conduct ; and in probability you will not only stop their mouths , but gain their hearts . for among all the ways of advancing the credit and interest of the church of england , one of the most successful will be the diligent labors , and the exemplary lives of the clergy in it . but if men will not regard their own , or the churches interest in this matter ; if they will break their rules in such a manner , as to dishonor god , and the church , and themselves by it ; - then you are to consider the next thing i was to speak to , which is , ii. what authority is given to us for the punishing offenders in our diocesses by the ecclesiastical law of this realm . for this we are to consider , that our authority herein is not derived from any modern canons or constitutions of this church ( altho due regard ought to be shewed to them ) but from the ancient common law ecclesiastical in this realm , which still continues in force . for as there is a common law with respect to civil rights , which depends not on the feudal constitutions , altho in many things it be the same with them ; but upon ancient practice , and general consent of the people from age to age. so , i say , there is a common law ecclesiastical , which altho in many things it may be the same with the canon law , which is read in the books ; yet it hath not its force from any papal or legatine constitutions , but from the acceptance and practice of it in our church . i could easily shew ( if the time would permit ) that papal and legatine constitutions were not received here , altho directed hither ; that some provincial constitutions never obtained the force of ecclesiastical laws ; but my business is to shew what did obtain and continue still to have the force of such ecclesiastical laws among us . by the statute of . h. . c. . it is declared , that such canons , constitutions , ordinances and synodals provincial being already made , which be not contrariant nor repugnant to the laws , statutes and customs of this realm , nor to the damage or hurt of the king's prerogative royal , shall now still be used and executed as they were afore the making of this act , &c. it 's true , a review was appointed , but such difficulties were found in it , as to the shaking the foundations of the ecclesiastical law here , that nothing was ever legally established in it ; and therefore this law is still in force . in the statute . h. . c. . it is said , that this realm recognising no superior under god but the king , hath been , and is free from subjection to any mans laws , but only to such as have been devised , made , and observed within this realm , for the wealth of the same : or to such other , as by the sufferance of the king and his progenitors , the people of this realm have taken at their free liberty , by their own consent , to be used amongst them , and have bound themselves by long use and custom to observance of the same , not as to the observance of the laws of any foreign prince , potentate , or prelate , but as to the customs and ancient laws of this realm , originally estabished , as laws of the same , by the said sufferance , consent , custom , and none otherwise . all that i have now to do , is to shew what authority the bishops had over the clergy by the ancient ecclesiastical law of this realm ; and what censures they were lyable to for some particular offences . i. by the ecclesiastical law the bishop is judg of the fitness of any clerk presented to a benefice . this is confessed by the ord coke in these words . and the examination of the ability , and sufficiency of the person presented , belongs to the bishop , who is the ecclesiastical judg , and in the examination he is a judg , and not a minister , and may and ought to refuse the person presented , if he be not persona idonea . but this is plain to have been the ancient ecclesiastical law of this realm by the articul . cleri . in edw. . time , de idoneitate personae praesentatae ad beneficium ecclesiasticum pertinet examinatio ad judicem ecclesiasticum , & ita est hactenus usitatum & fiat in futurum . by the provincial constitutions at oxford in the time of hen. . the bishop is required to admit the clerk who is presented , without opposition , within two months , dum tamen idoneus sit ; if he thinks him fit . so much time is allowed , propter examinationem , saith lyndwood ; even when there is no dispute about right of patronage . the main thing he is to be examined upon is his ability to discharge his pastoral duty , as coke calls it ; or as lyndwood saith , whether he be commendandus scientia & moribus . as to the former , the bishop may judg himself ; but as to the latter , he must take the testimonials of others ; and i heartily wish the clergy would be more careful in giving them , by looking on it as a matter of conscience , and not merely of civility ; for otherwise it will be impossible to avoid the pestering the church with scandalous and ignorant wretches . if the bishop refuses to admit within the time ( which by the modern canons is limited to twenty eight days after the presentation delivered ) he is liable to a duplex querela in the ecclesiastical courts , and a quare impedit at common law ; and then he must certifie the reasons of his refusal . in specot's case it is said , that in hen. . , . all the judges agreed , that the bishop is judg in the examination , and therefore the law giveth faith and credit to his judgment . but because great inconveniencies might otherwise happen , the general allegation is not sufficient , but he must certifie specially and directly ; and the general rule is , and it was so resolved by the judges , that all such as are sufficient causes of deprivation of an incumbent , are sufficient causes to refuse a presentee . but by the canon law * more are allowed . in the constitutions of othobon , the bishop is required particularly to enquire into the life and conversation of him that is presented ; and afterwards , that if a bishop admits another who is guilty of the same fault for which he rejected the former , his institution is declared null and void . by the canon law , if a bishop maliciously refuses to admit a fit person , he is bound to provide another benefice for him ; but our ecclesiastical law , much better puts him upon the proof of the cause of his refusal . but if the bishop doth not examin him , the canonists say it is a proof sufficient that he did it malitiosè . if a bishop once rejects a man for insufficiency , he cannot afterwards accept or admit of him ; as was adjudged in the bishop of hereford's case . if a man brings a presentation to a benefice , the bishop is not barely to examin him as to life and abilities , but he must be satisfied that he is in orders . how can he be satisfied , unless the other produce them ? how can he produce them , when it may be they are lost ? what is to be done in this case ? the canon is express , that no bishop shall institute any to a benefice , who hath been ordained by any other bishop ( for if he ordained him himself , he cannot after reject him , because the law supposes him to have examined and approved him ) except he first shew unto him his letters of orders , and bring him a sufficient testimony of his former good life and behaviour , if the bishop shall require it , and lastly shall appear upon due examination to be worthy of the ministry . but yet in palmes and the bishop of peterborough's case , it was adjudged that no lapse did accrue by the clerk's not shewing his orders , for the bishop upon his not coming to him again , collated after six months . but the court agreed , that the clerk ought to make proof of his orders ; but they differed about the manner of their proof . anderson said , the bishop might give him his oath . but if a proof were necessary , and the clerk did not come to make proof , it seems to me to be a very hard judgment . ii. the bishop by the ecclesiastical law , is to visit his diocess , and to take an account of the clergy how they behaye themselves in the duties of their places . by the eldest canons i can find , the bishops visitation is supposed as a thing implyed in his office ; whereby he is obliged to look after the good estate of his whole diocess , and especially of the clergy in it . in the time of hubert arch-bishop of canterbury , in the beginning of king johns time care is taken in the canons then made , that bishops should not be burdensom to the clergy in the number of the attendants in their visitations ; which then were parochial , and the number allowed of or horse , was too heavy for the clergy to bear . and therefore by degrees it was thought fit to turn that charge into a certainty , which was the original of procurations . by the fourth council of toledo , the bishop was to visit his whole diocess , parochially , every year . the gloss saith , if there were occasion for it ; and that the bishop may visit as often as he sees cause ; but if he be hindred , the canon saith , he may send others ( which is the original of the arch-deacons visitation ) to see not only the condition of the churches , but the lives of the ministers . the council of braca in the latter end of the sixth century , makes this the first canon , that all bishops should visit their diocesses by parishes , and there should first examin the clergy , and then the people ; and in another canon he was required to receive only his cathedraticum , i. e. a certain sum in lieu of entertainment ; which came to be setled by prescription . the council of cavailon in france , a. d. . fixed no sum , but desired the bishops to be no burdens to the clergy in their parochial visitations . lyndwood saith the ancient procuration here was a day and nights entertainment ; which after came to be a customary payment : but however it was paid , it is an evident proof of the right of the bishops visitations by the ancient ecclesiastical law ; and by such a custom as is allowable by the rules of our common law. iii. there are some faults , which make the clergy lyable to deprivation by virtue of the ecclesiastical law , which was here received . i shall name only some of them and conclude ; these being sufficient for my present purpose . i. excessive drinking . all drinking ( ad potus aequales ) was absolutely forbidden to clergymen , on pain of suspension after admonition ; not only by a synodical , but by a provincial constitution under edmund arch-bishop of canterbury . the canon law saith in that case , ab officio vel beneficio suspendatur : but our constitution is more severe , à beneficio & officio . the council of oxford not only strictly forbids all clergymen whatever tends to gluttony and drunkenness ; but it requires the bishops to proceed strictly against those who are guilty , according to the form of the general council , i. e. the lateran . viz. by admonition first , and then suspension . lyndwood complains , that this was not so much looked after as it should be , because it brought no profit ; i hope that reason will not hold among those who pretend to reformation ; which will be very defective if it extend not to our lives as well as our doctrines : for there can be no greater reproach , than to see those loose and dissolute in their conversations , who think it their honour to be ministers of a reformed church . it was a stinging reflection upon our church by the arch-bishop of spalato , ( who was no very strict man himself ) that he saw nothing reformed among us but our doctrines . i hope there was more of satyr than of truth in it ; for i do not question , but there were many then ( as there are now ) of exemplary lives and unblameable conversations ; but if there be any others , it will be the more shame not to proceed against them ; since even before the reformation , the canons were so strict and severe in this matter . in the council at westminster in henr. ii. time , under richard arch-bishop of canterbury , all clergymen are forbidden going into taverns to eat or drink , unless upon travelling ; and the sanction of this canon is , aut cesset , aut deponatur . the same was forbidden in the council at york , in the time of richard i. in the council at london under hubert , in the time of king john. and since the reformation , the same canon is renewed , that no ecclesiastical persons shall at any time other than for their honest necessities , resort to any taverns or alehouses . and there have been instances of the severity of our ecclesiastical censures against drunkenness in clergy-men . in jac. parker was deprived of his benefice for drunkenness , and moved for a prohibition , but it was denyed him . in jac. another was deprived for the same fault and the judges at common law allowed the sentence to be good . no doubt there are other instances , but we had not known of these , if they had not been preserved in books of reports . ii. incontinency . lyndwood saith , those who are proved to be guilty of it , are ipso jure privati ; but he thinks a declaratory sentence of the ecclesiastical judges necessary for the execution of it . since the reformation , we have instances of deprivation for adultery in our law books . one eliz. another eliz. a third eliz. these are enough to shew that the ecclesiastical law is allowed by the judges of common law , to continue in sufficient force for deprivation in this case . iii. simony . which is the name given by the ecclesiastical law , to all contracts for gain in the disposing or obtaining any ecclesiastical promotion or ministry . it is true , these do not come up to the very sin of simon magus , which related to the immediate gifts of the holy ghost ; but because the whole ministerial office in all the parts of it ( especially the cure of souls ) is of a spiritual nature ; and all bargains are so repugnant to the design of it , therefore the ecclesiastical law hath fixed that detestable name upon it : for , all contractus non gratuiti in these things savour of turpe lucrum , and tend to bring in turpe commercium into the church ; which would really overturn the whole design of that ministry , which was designed for the salvation of souls . and therefore it was necessary , that when persons had received ( by the favor of temporal princes and other benefactors , who were founders of churches ) such endowments as might encourage them in their function , that severe laws should be made against any such sordid and mischievous contracts . and such there were here in england long before the excellent stat. of eliz. c. . although it seems the force of them was so much worn out , as to make that statute necessary for avoiding of simony ; which is there explained to be corruption in bestowing or getting possession of promotions ecclesiastical . in a council at london under lanfranc in the conqueror's time , simony was forbidden , under the name of buying and selling of orders . and it could be nothing else before the churches revenue was setled : but in the time of henr. i. ecclesiastical benefices were forbidden to be bought or sold , and it was deprivation then to any clergy-man to be convicted of it ; and a lay-man was to be out-law'd and excommunicated , and deprived of his right of patronage . and this was done by a provincial synod of that time . in the reign of henr. ii. it was decreed , that if any person received any mony for a presentation , he was to be for ever deprived of the patronage of that church ; and this was not merely a provincial constitution , but two kings were present ( hen. . and his son ) , and added their authority to it . this was not depriving a man of his freehold by a canon , as a learned gentleman calls it ; for here was the greatest authority , temporal as well as ecclesiastical added to it . but we are told , these canons were of as little effect , as that of othobon , which made all simoniacal contracts void ; but some of the most judicious lawyers have held , that simony being contractus ex turpi causâ , is void between parties . all that i aim at is to shew , that by our old ecclesiastical law , simoniaeus incurred a deprivation and disability before the stat. . eliz. and therein i have the opinion of a very learned judge concurring with me . iv. dilapidations . by which the ecclesiastical law understands any considerable impairing the edifices , woods and revenues belonging to ecclesiastical persons , by virtue of their places . for it is the greatest interest and concernment of the church to have things preserved for the good of successors ; and it is a part of common justice and honesty so to do . and the lord coke positively affirms , that dilapidation is a good cause of deprivation . and it was so resolved by the judges in the king's bench , . jac. not by virtue of any new law or statute , but by the old ecclesiastical law. for which coke refers to the year-books , which not only shew what the ecclesiastical law then was , but that it was allowed by the common law of england ; and we are told , that is never given to change ; but it may be forced to it by a new law , which cannot be pretended in this case . and by the old constitutions here received , the bishops are required to put the clergy in mind of keeping their houses in sufficient reparations , and if they do it not within two months , the bishop is to take care , it be done out of the profits of the benefice . by the injunctions of ed. vi. and queen elizabeth , all persons having ecclesiastical benefices are required to set apart the fifth of their revenue to repair their houses ; and afterwards to maintain them in good condition . v. pluralities . by the ecclesiastical law , which was here received , the actual receiving institution into a second benefice made the first void ipso jure ; and if he sought to keep both above a month , the second was void too . lyndwood observes , that the ecclesiastical law had varied in this matter . and it proceeded by these steps , ( which are more than lyndw. mentions . ) i. it was absolutely forbidden to have two parishes , if there were more than ten inhabitants in them , because no man could do his duty in both places . and if any bishop neglected the execution of it , he was to be excommunicated for two months , and to be restored only upon promise to see this canon executed . ii. the rule was allowed to hold , as to cities , but an exception was made as to small and remote places , where there was a greater scarcity of persons to supply them . iii. if a man had two benefices , it was left to his choice , which he would have : but he could not hold both . this kind of option was allowed by the ecclesiastical law then in force . iv. that if he takes a second benefice ; that institution is void , by the third council of lateran , under alexander iii. v. that by taking a second the first is void ; which is the famous canon of the fourth lateran council . vi. that if he were not contented with the last , but endeavour to keep both , he should be deprived of both . and this was the ecclesiastical law as it was declared in our provincial constitutions . but the general practice was to avoid the former , according to the lateran council . these were very severe canons , but that one clause of the pope's dispensing power made them to signifie little , unless it were to advance his power and revenue . for when the dispensing power came to be owned , the law had very little force ; especially as to the consciences of men. for if it were a law of god , how could any man dispense with it ? unless it were as apparent that he had given a power in some cases to dispense , as that he had made the law. those casuists are very hard put to it , who make residence jure divino , and yet say the pope may dispense with it ; which at last comes only to this , that the pope can authoritatively declare the sufficiency of the cause : so that the whole matter depends upon the cause ; whether there can be any sufficient to excuse from personal residence . it is agreed on all hands , that the habitual neglect of a charge we have taken upon our selves , is an evil thing , and that it is so to heap up preferments merely for riches , or luxury , or ambition ; but the main question in point of conscience is , what is a sufficient cause to justifie any man's breaking so reasonable and just a rule as that of residence is . it cannot be denied , that the eldest canons of the church were so strict and severe , that they made it unlawful for any man to go from that church in which he first received orders ; as well as to take another benefice in it : and so for any bishop to be translated from that place he was first consecrated to ; as well as to hold another with it . but the good of the church being the main foundation of all the rules of it ; when that might be better promoted by a translation ; it was by a tacit consent looked on , as no unjust violation of its rules . the question then is , whether the churches benefit may not in some cases make the canons against non-residence as dispensable , as those against translations ? and the resolution of it doth not depend upon the voiding the particular obligation of the incumbent to his cure ; but upon some more general reason with respect to the state of the church . as being imployed in the service of it , which requires a persons having , ( not a bare competency for subsistence , but ) a sufficiency to provide necessaries for such service . for those seem to have very little regard to the flourishing condition of a church , who would confine the sufficiency of a subsistence , merely to the necessaries of life . but it seems to be reasonable , that clergy-men should have incouragement sufficient , not only to keep them above contempt , but in some respect agreeable to the more ample provision of other orders of men. and by god's own appointment the tribe of levi did not fall short of any of the rest , if it did not very much exceed the proportion of others . we do not pretend to the privileges they had , only we observe from thence , that god himself did appoint a plentiful subsistence for those who attended upon his service . and i do not know , what there is levitical , or ceremonial , in that . i am sure , the duties of the clergy now require a greater freedom of mind from the anxious cases of the world , than the imployments of the priests and levites under the law. but we need not go so far back ; if the church injoyed all her revenues as entirely , as when the severe canons against pluralities were made , there would not be such a plea for them , as there is too much cause for in some places , from the want of a competent subsistence . but since that time , the abundance of appropriations ( since turned into lay-fees ) hath extremely lessened the churches revenues , and have left us a great number of poor vicarages , and arbitrary cures , which would hardly have afforded a maintenance for the nethinims under the law , who were only to be hewers of wood , and drawers of water . but this doth not yet clear the difficulty : for the question is whether the subsistence of the clergy can lawfully be improved by a plurality of livings ? truly , i think this ( if it be allowed in some cases lawful ) to be the least desireable way of any ; but in some circumstances it is much more excusable than in others . as when the benefices are mean , when they lie near each other , when great care is taken to put in sufficient curates with good allowance ; when persons take all opportunities to do their duties themselves , and do not live at a distance from their benefices in an idle and careless manner . but for men to put in curates merely to satisfie the law , and to mind nothing of the duties of their places , is a horrible scandal to religion and our church , and that , which if not amended , may justly bring down the wrath of god upon us . for the loosest of all the popish-casuists , look upon this as a very great sin , even those who attributed to the pope the highest dispensing power in this case . but when the greate liberty of dispensing had made the ecclesiastical laws in great measure useless , then it was thought fit by our law-makers to restrain and limit it by a statute made . h. . wherein it is enacted , that if any person or persons having one benefice with cure of souls , being of the yearly value of eight pounds , or above , accept or take any other with cure of soul , and be instituted , and inducted in possession of the same , that then , and immediately after such possession had thereof , the first benefice shall be adjudged to be void . and all licenses and dispensations to the contrary , are declared to be void and of none effect . this , one would have thought had been an effectual remedy against all such pluralities and dispensations to obtain them ; and this , no doubt , was the primary design of the law ; but then follow so many proviso's of qualified men to get dispensations , as take off a great deal of the force and effect of this law. but then it ought well to be considered , whether such a license being against the chief design of a law , can satisfie any man in point of conscience , where there is not a just and sufficient cause ? for , if the popes dispensation , with the supposed plenitude of his power , could not satisfie a mans conscience without an antecedent cause , as the casuists resolve , much less can such proviso's do it . it is the general opinion of divines , and lawyers , saith lessius , that no man is safe in conscience by the popes dispensation for pluralities , unless there be a just cause for it . no man can with a safe conscience , take a dispensation from the pope for more benefices than one , merely for his own advantage , saith panormitan ; and from him sylvester and summ. angelica . a dispensation , saith card. tolet , secures a man as to the law , ; but as to conscience there must be a good cause for it . and that is , when the church hath more benefit by it , than it would have without it . but the pope's dispensing power went much farther in point of conscience in their opinion , than that which is setled among us by act of parliament . for it is expressed in the stat. hen. . that the dispensation is intended to keep men from incurring the danger , penalty , and forfeiture in this statute comprised . so that the most qualified person can only say , that the law doth not deprive him ; but he can never plead that it can satisfie him in point of conscience , unless there be some cause for it , which is of more moment to the church , than a man 's sole and constant attendance on a particular cure is . but this stat. is more favourable to the clergy , than the canon law was before , in two particulars . . in declaring that no simple benefices , or mere dignities , as the canonists call them , are comprehended under the name of benefices , having cure of souls , viz. no deanery , arch-deaconry , chancellorship , treasurership , chantership , or prebend in any cathedral or collegiate church , nor parsonage that hath a vicar endowed , nor any benefice perpetually appropriate . but all these before were within the reach of the canon law , and a dispensation was necessary for them : which shews , that this law had a particular respect to the necessary attendance on parochial cures , and looked on other dignities and preferments in the church , as a sufficient encouragement to extraordinary merit . . that no notice is taken of livings under the value of l . which i suppose is that of e. . for that of h. . was not till five years after . but after that valuation , it was to be judged according to it , and not according to the real value , as the judges declared car. i. in the case of drake and hill. now here was a regard had to the poorness of benefices , so far , that the statute doth not deprive the incumbent upon taking a second living , if it be under l. the question that arises from hence is , whether such persons are allowed to enjoy such pluralities by law ; or only left to the ecclesiastical law , as it was before ? it is certain , that such are not liable to the penalty of this law ; but before any person might be deprived by the ecclesiastical law for taking a second benefice without dispensation , of what value soever ; now here comes a statute which enacts , that all who take a second benefice of l . without qualification , shall lose his legal title to the first ; but what if it be under ? shall he lose it or not ? not , by this law. but suppose the ecclesiastical law before makes him liable to deprivation ; doth the statute alter the law without any words to that purpose ? the bishop had a power before to deprive , where is it taken away ? the patron had a right to present upon such deprivation ; how comes he to lose it ? and i take it for granted , that no antecedent rights are taken away by implications ; but there must be express clauses to that purpose . so that i conclude the ancient ecclesiastical law to be still in force , where it is not taken away by statute . and thus my brethren , i have laid before you the authority and the rules we are to act by ; i have endeavoured to recommend to you , the most useful parts of your duty ; and i hope you will not give me occasion to shew what power we have by the ecclesiastical law of this realm to proceed against offenders . nothing will be more uneasie to me , than to be forced to make use of any severity against you . and my hearts desire is , that we may all sincerely and faithfully discharge the duties of our several places , that the blessing of god may be upon us all ; so that we may save our selves and those committed to our charge . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e regino l. . p. . hispan . concil . p. . regino collect. canon . lib. . p. . burchrd . l. . c. , . gratian. . q. . c. . hieron comment . ad titam . epist. ad evagr. advers luciferian . hier. in psal. ad evagr. ad marcell . cyprian . ep. . . aug. in ps. . . ambros. ad eph. . . cor. . . theod. ad tim. . , iren. l. . c. . john , . tim. . , , &c. . . . . . titus . . de voto & voti redempt . lyndw. f. . co●cil . anglic. vol. . f. . constit. othor . f. . concil . angl. vol. . f. . constit. provinc . de officio archi-presbyteri , f. . concil . anglic. vol. . p. . lyndw. v. latratu f. . v. pabulo v. dei. † prov. constit. de offic. arch-presbyt f. . concil . anglic. vol. . p. . concil . anglic. vol. p. . . concil . anglic. vol. p. . constit. de haeret . f. . lyndw. f. . c. dudam . clem. de sepulturis . jo. de athon . in constitut. othobon . f. . c. dudam . de sepulturis . non potest esse pastoris excusatio , si lupus oves comedit , & pastor nescit . extr. de reg. juris c. . reginald . pra●is , l. . tr . . c. . p. . constit. provinc . de clericis non resid . c. quum hostis . joh. athon . ad constit. othon . f. . reginald . ib. n. . can. relatum . ex. de clericis non resid . lyndw. in c. quum host is . resideant cum effectu . joh. de athon . in constit. othon . f. . continui . can. echipandae . de praebend . & dign . de praesumpt . f. . . de clericis non resident . cum hostis , &c. lynd. f. . joh. de athon . in consist . othon . f. . otho de instit. vic. f. . othobon f. . joh. de athon . in constit. othon . can. quia nonnulla de clericis non resid . quadrilog . . . c. . plato de leg. l. . arist. polit. l. . c . nicom . l. . c. . c . sess. . de reform . c. . lyndw. prov. cost . f. , . concil . anglic. . vol. . . de consecr . dist. . c. lynd. f. . . sciat . si enim habeant expensas & magistros , peccarent ni●● plus sciant quam laici . provinc . constit . de sacro unct. f. . concil . anlg. . vol. p. . concil . angl. . vol. p. . . p. . p. . p. . lyndw. f. . orig. in jer. hom. . p. . ed. haet . . q . c. . lyndw ad l. de ●oenis f. . extr. de priv. c. porro in g●●●● . in hebr. h●m . . in ephes. hom. . concil . anglic. tom. . p. , , . calvin . inst. l. . c. . n. . pet. martyr . l. c. l. . c. . n. . in. . cor. . p. . bucer in matth. . p. . concil . anglic. vol. p. . . inst. . inst. . provinc . const. quum secund . f. . can. : . rep. . * multa impe . diunt promovendum quae non de●iciunt . gloss. in c . de vit. & honest. cleric . c. christiano , f. . de jure pa●tron . c. pastoralis officii . gloss. in can. & malitiose . moor . el. ● cr. . can. ● cr. . leon. . reginol . c. . , , , , baluz . ad reginon . p. . concil . angl. vol. . c. . q. . episcopum regino . l. . c. . concil . braca . . c. . q. . placait . concil . cabil . . c. . de censibus , f. . de officio vicarii c. quoniam v. procurari . concil . anglic. vol. . . . extr. de vita & honestat . cleric . c. . prov. const. f. . epist. ad jos. hall. concil . anglic. . vol. . f. . . can. . brownlow's rep. f. . id. f. . lyndw. f. . . c. . hob. . owen . . cr. . . officium curae animarum ést praecipuum ac spiritualissimum dei donum . cajetan in act. . concil . anglic. vol. p. . . p. . p. . constit. prov. . parsons counsellor , sect. . hob. . rolls . joh. de athon . in constit. othob . f. . . . e. . r. . . inst. . moor . godbolt . rolls . . e. . . h. . . h. . . e. . . constit. othob . f. . . othob . f. . . provinc . constit . f. . lyndw. ib. v. sit content . . q. . c. unio . concil . tolet. . c. . . q. . c. . clericus . ex. de praebc . referente . ex. de cleric . non-resident . c. quia nonnulli . ex. de praebc , de . multâ . less . l. . c. . dub. . pan. c. dudum . . de elect. sylv. benef. . sum. angel. ben. . tolet. summa ●asim . . c. . cr. car. f. . c. . . holland's case . the case of an oath of abjuration considered and the vote of the honourable house of commons vindicated in a letter. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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[s.n.], london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to edward stillingfleet. cf. bm. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng england and wales. -- parliament. -- house of commons. allegiance. oaths -- great britain. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the case of an oath of abjuration considered : and the vote of the honorable house of commons vindicated . in a letter to a friend . london , printed for the author . . sir , i was greatly amazed to hear you , the other day , so passionately concerned in behalf of the oath of abjuration ; as tho our whole stake and safety , depended on its passing on the nation . this convinc'd me , that it is not impossible for people to intend the same end by the most different means imaginable ; for i verily believe , there are not two men in england , that in their hearts do more sincerely love their present majesties , nor that , according to their poor capacities and stations , serve them better than you and i. and yet i tell you now , as i forbore not to tell you then , that i think an oath of abjuration , is as unlikely a thing to serve their present majesties , as any one thing in the world besides . you told me then moreover , that some good understanding people of your acquaintance were very much offended at the house of commons , for throwing out that bill twice , in two successive sessions , and that they were looked upon rather as enemies , than friends , to the present government . i told you then moreover , that your acquaintance might be both good and understanding people , but that they made very bold with the house of commons , and were not understanding enough in these affairs , to pass a true judgment on them ; and that it was a most pernicious thing , to look on all , that are not of our mind , as enemies . there being nothing more sure , than that two parties may do , as you and i do , differ exceedingly in the means of securing and supporting the government , and yet both wish and intend the securing and supporting of it ; as there is no doubt to be made , but both sides of the house of commons did . both sides may be right in their intention , i. e. intend the peace and welfare of the kingdom , tho the means they pitch upon , may be very different ; so different that the contrary side may fancy they are truly destructive of the end they aim at , without believing that the persons concerned , design any other than good , to their majesties and the kingdom . with this you seem'd to be for the present satisfied ; but since , i understand , you begin to change your mind again , and desire me to set down in writing , upon what reasons i ground my opinion of the mischief of an oath of abjuration , and send them to you , i have agreed to do so ; and i suppose , i shall sufficiently satisfie all your scruples , if i shall shew you these three things : first , that an oath of abjuration is altogether new and strange in england . secondly , that it is altogether needless . thirdly , that it is altogether impossible to be kept . . an oath of abjuration is altogether strange and new in england . the line of succession hath been as frequently interrupted in england , as in any hereditary kingdom in the world besides . and therefore there hath been as much need of an oath of abjuration here , as any where , and yet we have never had one . it is not for want of instances , but to spare your time and patience , that i run not up beyond the conquest , but will begin there . what right or title william the conqueror had to these kingdoms , every body knows as well as any body . the right of promise from edward the confessor , if it were true , as he pretended it , yet was no right at all ; for what power has a king of england of himself to give or bestow the kingdom to whom he pleases ? but however , he also gave it to harold on his death-bed . so the chron. saxon. ann. . tunc haroldus comes capessit regnum , sicut rex ei c●ncesserat , omnesque ad id eum eligebant , & consecratus est in regem in festo epiphaniae . so chron. walt. hemingford , cap. . et juxta quod ipse rex edwante mortem statuerat , sibi successit in regnum haroldus . tho william of malmesbury and matth. paris , and others , tell us he seised upon the crown against the will of almost all the great men , and especially the bishops . extortâ à principibus fide , arripuit diadema . but let harold and the conqueror come to the crown how they could , it is manifest beyond dispute , that the right heir was then alive , who was edgar atheling , the son of edward , grandchild of edm. ironside . this edgar was not only heir to the crown by lineal descent , but design'd to succeed edward the confessor , by him himself , and sent for , for that purpose , from abroad , where he , his mother , and his sisters were ; and it was look'd upon to be so much his due , that he was actually set up king by some parts of the nation , insomuch that edwin and morcar , the great earls of those times , with aldred , archbishop of york , and the citizens of london , agreed thereto , and promised to stand by him . and the saxon chron. gives us an instance of the abbot of peterborough newly elected , being sent to edgar , as king , for confirmation . for ( says it ) the inhabitants of that country thought that he should be the king. but the noise of william's invasion , made the nation bethink themselves ; and the people that had been most forward to set up edgar , began to look upon him now as a defenceless youth , and not able to make head against so wise and hardy a prince as william was ; and therefore leaving him to shift as he could , they made their terms with the conqueror . the nation had had the same good intentions towards this poor prince edgar , upon the death of edward the confessor , and some had actually endeavoured to set him up ; but harold was more powerful both in friends and money , and stept into the throne before him , as did the conqueror this second time . the use i intend to make of this , will be , ( as you may easily foresee ) to shew you , that edgar had a title to the throne , in the general opinion of all english men ; and consequently , that he was a dangerous competitor to king william the conqueror . but notwithstanding this , king william , when he was crown'd by aldred ( the same aldred who would have set up edgar , and who has this character bestowed upon him by walt. hemingford , cap. . vir bonus & prudens , intelligensque cedendum esse tempori , & divine nequaquam resistendum ordinationi , ) took the oath of fealty of all that were concern'd , without any farther notice taken of edgar atheling above the rest , and carrying him with other lords and bishops over into normandy , he set him at liberty as soon as any of the others . and tho he afterwards gave both the conqueror and william rufus some disturbance , by his siding with the scots , and danes , and duke robert , yet both of them had him in their hands , and let him go again , without any farther mischief ; he lived for some time in both their courts , and what became of him at last , we are not certain . all that we know of it is from w. malmesbury , who making mention of him adds , lib. . pag. . qui post occisionem haroldi à quibusdam in regem electus est , & vario lusu fortunae rotatus nunc penè decrepitum diem ignobilis ruri agit . in the same place he says , that david , his sister margaret's son , was king of scotland , which was not before the year . so that he lived at least to the age of seventy , if we allow him to be twelve at the death of harold , when he was thought unfit to reign , for want of years . and yet in all the reigns of these three kings , william the first , and second , and henry the first , there was no oath of abjuration ; no renouncing to the rightful title of edgar atheling . each of these princes receiv'd the oath of fealty and allegiance from their subjects , and looked no farther after the exclusion of edgar , than that oath did naturally carry them , which is far enough in all conscience , when honest people take it . . when william the conqueror died , he left the duchy of normandy to his eldest son robert. ( mezeray is mistaken when he makes the father yield up the duchy to the son , when he was reconciled to him , upon his mounting him again upon his horse , when he had ignorantly met and overthrown him ) and england to his second son william rufus , and to henry his third son , a mighty summ of money , with a prophetical presage , that he would one day come to greater matters . rufus was then with his father , and before his funeral exequies were performed ( to secure himself the better of his appointed succession ) slipt over into england , and got himself crowned king , by lanfranc , archbishop of canterbury ; but he was hardly warm in his seat , before a great and deep conspiracy was form'd against him , in behalf of his elder brother robert , contriv'd and carried on especially by odo , bishop of baieux and earl of kent , his uncle , geofrey bishop of constance , and other great lords , intending to deliver up the king and kingdom into the hands of robert. this so startled and amazed rufus , that he thereupon calls all the english men together , and lays before them the danger he was in , promising the redress of many present grievances , and ample privileges to them and theirs , upon their assistance , which they consented to give , and accordingly , by their help , he pursued and utterly defeated his enemies , and became thereby enabled to forget his fair promises . robert in vain attempted to invade england , being repulsed with great loss by the king's ships and seamen ; and william , in his turn , made over for normandy , to do as much as robert had design'd ; but by the mediation of great men on both sides , the brothers came to an agreement , that such and such places should be delivered to each the other , and that whichsoever of the brothers died first , without children , the other should succeed him in all his estates : and to these covenants twelve of the most considerable men , on each side , were very solemnly sworn . this was done , and in , the brothers disagreed again , and all the fault was laid upon the king who again prepar'd for normandy , where each of them did a great deal of mischief to each other ; till , very luckily , the pope engag'd duke robert to take upon him the croisade , who being easily persuaded thereto ( as one who was always a light and giddy-headed prince ) he sent to the king , to acquaint him with his purpose , to conclude a peace , and to borrow money for that expedition , engaging his dukedom for it , to which the king assented readily , and carried him the money himself , and took possession of his pledge ; the money came to six thousand six hundred sixty six pound of silver : and robert behaved himself very honourably abroad , where he continued till the death of king william , . in all these quarrels and conspiracies , occasioned by d. robert and his partisans , rufus desired , nor had , no other security of his subjects , than the oath of fealty and allegiance , which obliged them to be true to him , without excluding or abjuring robert ; and yet , i take it , robert was a very formidable competitor , and that such an oath was as necessary then , as it ever was to this day , well , this unfortunate robert was again put by the crown , as well by his absence , as by the cunning management of his younger brother henry , who got so well into the good graces of the lords and bishops , that he was crowned king before duke robert could return to make his claim . but , see the inconstancy of english-men ! henry had made large promises of amending all things that were amiss in the former reigns , and confirming the liberties of the church , and a great many other good things ; and thereupon was received by all the nobility and clergy with g●eat expressions ofjoy and satisfaction , and crowned by maurice bishop of london , ( for anselm had been driven away by w. rufus ) but before they could have time to see whether king henry would be as good as his word , they generally engaged in a conspiracy to call in robert , and deliver up the government to him : some of the king's ships went over to robert , and a great conflux of people there was gathered to him when he landed at portsmouth ; but before they came to try their fortune in the field of battel , an accord was made between them , by the mediation of some principal men of both sides ; by which it was agreed upon that robert should continue duke of normandy , and henry , king of england , paying his brother yearly three thousand marks ; that all adherents to robert should be clear'd , and enjoy their estates , and that whichsoever of the two died childless first , the other should succeed in both the kingdom and the dutchy ; with some other particulars , which were all of them sworn to ( as before ) by twelve great men on each side . this agreement was made in , and in a few years came to nothing ; for after many depredations and reprisals , skirmishes , and taking and retaking of towns in normandy , the fatal battel was fought in , where robert was taken prisoner , and never after obtained his liberty , but having his eyes put out ( a piece of cruelty much in use in those days ) he lived and died at cardiff , a miserable captive , in the year , and was buried at gloucester . an unhappy prince from the beginning to the end , if we except two or three years , spent to his honor in the holy-land . but i have nothing to do with any thing relating to him , but to remark , that notwithstanding the great and continual disturbance and alarms he gave both william ii , and henry , yet neither of them took an oath of abjuration from the nation , and it is the more remarkable in henry , because that robert had a son called william , a brave and noble youth , and a prince of great hopes , and like enough to prove a strong competitor to henry's children . he was afterwards greatly favoured by the french king , and married his queen's sister , and had the county of flanders , and other strong places put into his hands , by which he created great troubles to his uncle henry , till he was unfortunately wounded at a siege , and being unskilfully dressed , died in a monastery five days after , in the year . but what did henry do with regard both to his brother robert and this vigorous prince , young william , who had sworn severely to revenge his father's injuries and eyes ? why he contented himself to swear his own son , who was also called william , into the succession of normandy , in the year , and of england in , having for that purpose called a parliament at salisbury . conventio optimatum & baronum totius angliae apud searesberiam xiv . kal. aprilis facta est , qui in praesentia regis henrici homagium filio suo wilielmo fecerunt , & fidelitatem ei juraverunt . sim. dunelm . an . and , as annales de margan have it , . filius regis henrici juratur ab omnibus haeres patris fieri . but in the year , william and the rest of the king's children , with a great company of people of quality , were unfortunately drowned , the ship being run upon a rock not far from the shoar from whence they put to sea , by the mariners and pilot , who were got drunk . the prince might have been saved , had he not hearkned over-tenderly to the cries and lamentations of one of his poor sisters that continued in the ship , whom thinking to take into his boat , so many of the ship leap'd presently into it , as sunk it immediately , and so they all perished together . the king had now but one daughter left , which was maud , first married to the emperor of germany , whose widow she became in the year , and afterwards , in , to geofry plantagenet earl of anjou ; but before the king sent his daughter away to this second husband , upon news of his nephew william's promotion to the earldom of flanders , and his attempting great matters by the assistance of the king of france , he was exceedingly distressed and troubled , and calling his parliament together ( saith brompton , thomas wikes , and chron. saxon. and every body else ) at westminster ( or , as others , at windsor ) he made both david king of scotland , all the archbishops , and bishops , abbots and great men , take the oath of fidelity , and do homage to his daughter , and her heirs lawfully begotten , in case himself should die without any issue male ; which they accordingly did ; and , amongst the rest , none forwarder to do it than stephen earl of blois , who either administred the oath himself to the rest , after he had taken it himself , or else contrived the form thereof ; for i know not well which is the construction of those words in tho. wikes's chronology , in the year . non solum in persona propria sacramentum fidelitatis emisit , sed & aliis regni proceribus jurisjurandi formam praestruxit . but you see , i hope , plainly , that henry was apprehensive enough of the growing power of his nephew william , and yet thought fit to take no other security of the nation against him than a common oath of allegiance ; there was no talk or offers after an oath of abjuration , in those days ; tho it had been much to his purpose , and he had power enough had it been otherwise convenient . this oath of fidelity was again renewed to maud at northampton in . habitoque non parvo procerum conventu apud northantonam priscam fidem apud eos qui dederant novavit , ab iis qui non dederant accepit , saith w. of malmesbury , hist. novel . l. . p. . which i mention not as if it were done out of fear of any particular person ( for william died , as i have said , in ) but , in all probability to exclude geofry her husband from ruling , with whom he was exceedingly offended . i have it from wil. of malmesbury who tells us , that when king henry lay on his death-bed , de successione interrogatus , filiae omnem terram suam citra & ultra mare legitima & perenni successione adjudicavit : marito ejus subiratus , quod eum & minis & injuriis aliquantis irritaverat . notwithstanding all this caution and security , and this last declaration of the dying king in favour of his daughter ; , stephen earl of blois , his nephew by his sister adeliza daughter of the conqueror , got over from normandy into england , and tho he was repulsed at dover , and by the men of kent , yet he was entertained by the londoners , and by the dexterous management of his brother the bishop of winton , who promised for him all that could be wanted or desired , he was crowned by the archbishop of canterbury , whose scruples about the former oath to maud were satisfied by the oath of a bold nobleman , who swore he heard king henry , on his death-bed , disinherit his daughter maud , and appoint e stephen to succeed him in the kingdom . some of our historians tell us , that there was but a poor show of bishops and great-men at the coronation , and that many ill omens were seen thereat ; others say otherwise , and tell us it was performed annuentibus praesulibus & próceribus regni , and that they pitch'd on stephen , because that maud had no children , and they wanted a considerable person to look after the affairs of the kingdom . but all of them in general cry out aloud upon the sudden change of the english nobility , had so lately sworn fidelity to maud , omnis anglia , quasi in ictu oculi , ei subjecta est , saith walt. hemingford , from malmesbury , c. . even robert of gloucester swore to stephen , tho with a very evil mind undoubtedly , because he could not otherwise be in any capacity of serving his sister-in-law maud and her son ( for now she was brought to bed of her son henry ) ; this reason wil. of malmesbury , his client , gives for him , he was afraid of his former oath to maud , and he was afraid he should never do her any service if he swore not to stephen , and therefore he did it , tho conditionally , that he should preserve his honor and his covenants . robert was the only man alive he feared , for he was wise and valiant to a wonder in those days , and he was glad to have any hold at all of such a man , and therefore accepted of his conditional homage . you shall take the words , and see what you can make of them your self , itaque homagium regifecit , sub conditione quadam , scilicet , quamdiu ille dignitatem suam integrè custodiret , & sibi pacta servaret : spectato enim jamdudum regis ingenio instabilitatem ejus fidei praevidebat . malmsb. hist. novel . l. . p. . i am greatly afraid , there are many roberts of gloucester now alive , that have taken the oaths to their present majesties , with no better design than to capacitate themselves to do them a shrewd turn , when it lies in their way ; although they see no shadow of unfaithfulness or ill design in them ; but this is a remark out of my way , which you will pardon . it is only to my purpose to say , that stephen contented himself with the ordinary oath of allegiance , tho maud was his competitor ; and put no nobleman or commoner upon adjuring her or hers by name , tho he were sensible that they must prove continual thorns in his side ; and upon those apprehensions , as soon as he was settled in his throne , he passed over with an army into france , with purpose only of subduing geofry of anjou , her husband , prospexerat'enim ( saith tho , wikes , , ) quod si imperatrix prolem de corpore suo generaret , bella sibi minime defutura , knowing full well that if she had children , he must look for little quiet . but children she had , and you know how troublesome this woman , with her son and brother robert , were to him for many years , the many miserie 's this poor kingdom endured under the time of their dissensions ( for in most wars a country finds but little difference between friends and enemies ) and the agreement made at last betwixt them . i will not insist on any of these matters : king stephen took all usual care to secure the crown to himself and his posterity ; but it went no farther than to take the common oath of allegiance to himself , and in , to cause the same to be taken to eustace his son. for so annales waverleienses , apud londoniam eustachio filio r. stephani fide & jurejurando universi comites & barones angliae se subdiderunt . he would have had him crowned , but the clergy , by order of the pope , opposed it strongly , and he could not carry his point , as gervasius tells us , in stephano , . p. in the year , died stephen's wife , and in , eustace his son , a stomachful young prince ; so that stephen , consum'd almost with care and grief , and finding himself decay , and his adversary young henry daily increasing in riches and the favour of the people , began to incline to peace , which was agreed upon , you know , on condition that stephen should continue king during his natural life , and henry to succeed him : and that william , stephen's only remaining son , should be possessed of all his father's estate , whilst a private subject ; but he liv'd not long to enjoy it , dying in king henry's service , at the siege of tholouse , in the year : stephen himself went before him , dying in the year . leaving peace , the greatest and most wanted blessing , to this distracted kingdom . consider , sir , i pray , whether an oath of abjuration , was not full as seasonable in this king stephen's case , as it can possibly be in any others , and then i will go on . henry ii , being possessed of the throne , took the usual oath of fidelity from his subjects , without any manner of regard had to william , stephen's son , who served him four years , and died at last , as i have said , in . he reigned thirty five years , and endured great troubles and afflictions from an untoward queen , and most ungracious children , the eldest of which called henry ( sometimes called secundus , sometimes tertius , sometimes junior and minor ) he caused to be crowned king whilst himself lived , and quickly found good reason to repent him of such favour . but having no competitor for the crown , his troubles are nothing to my purpose , since he could have no occasion for an oath of abjuration : and therefore i have done with him , when i have observed to you , that notwithstanding the oath the nation took in general to his mother maud her self , yet henry succeeded stephen , without any manner of notice taken of her . polydor virgil makes her present at the treaty of agreement , but mentions no cession or yielding up her right ; no historian , i have seen , takes any notice of her at all ; and yet , undoubtedly , she took all those pains , in her wars with stephen for her self , and upbraided stephen and all his followers with perjury ; and yet she appears no ways concerned in the treaty , nor makes any manner of declaration that she absolved them of their oaths to her , or that she was willing they should transfer their allegiance to her son. perhaps they took these things for granted , because she put in no new claim at that time : all that we know further of her is , that she died , as some say , in the th or , as others , in the th year of her son henry's reign , who died hlmself in , and left his crown and kingdom uncontested to richard i , who was his eldest son then living . he was a brave prince , and , according to the superstitious humour of those times , engaged in the recovery of the holy sepulchre out of the hands of infidels , where he performed wonders , and was accounted one of the religious heroes of that age. but certainly he was very ill paid at home , for these his glorious pains abroad , by john his brother . most of our common historians are mistaken in representing these matters , and confound actions done at different times ; i shall take a little pains to set them in better order , and that in short , from roger hoveden , walt. hemingford , and john brompton , &c. when richard went into the east , he left the government of england in the hands of william longchamp , lord chancellor and bishop of ely , who ( for ought appears ) managed it with great fidelity to the king his master , but to the great dislike of john and his adherents , who made many grievous complaints of his tyrannick government , and seem resolved to have him laid aside at any rate ; the thing that offended john at the bottom was this , that the chancellor , being a man of great abilities and power , abetted and maintained the right of arthur of brettany , son and heir of geofry elder brother to john , and sent underhand to the king of scotland , who was his great uncle , for his protection and assistance , in case king richard should do otherwise than well in the holy-land ; protesting moreover to him , that by letters directed to him from sicily , king richard had appointed arthur his successor , if he should die . it is not very certain whether the chancellor acted thus in favour of young arthur , out of a good principle , as knowing him the rightful heir ; or with ambitious purpose of continuing in his great authority and regency , as he was likely to do , if a child succeeded ; but whatever the motive was to his asserting arthur's right , his doing so must needs be enough to make earl john his mortal enemy . the chancellor was a warm and haughty man , and imprudently administred an occasion of commotion , by commanding girard de camvilla to yield up to him the castle of lincoln , who ( having had it committed to his care by the king ) refus'd to do it , and immediately took part with john , whose ambitious restless temper took hold of this occasion to put himself in arms ; and , whilst the chancellor was besieging girard , he seized on the two castles of nottingham and tickill . so that now they came to open hostilities ; in which the chancellor finding himself the weaker , and knowing he had many mens persons about him , whose hearts were with john , he made his peace with him , upon the vile unworthy terms of forsaking arthur . but this was not what john wanted , which was his dègradation and removal ; to which the following passage ministred occasion , geofry archbishop of york was forbid ( for some cause or other ) by k. richard to enter england in three years space ; but he , unmindful of the king's command ( and some say of his own oath ) resolved to take the opportunity of the king's absence , and enter on his bishoprick , which attempting to do , at dover , he was watched by the chancellor's spies and taken from the altar of a church , whither he fled for refuge , and dragged from thence , and carried and committed to the constable of dover castle . this made a great noise , you may be sure , in those days , and opened the mouths of the clergy , with whose cries earl john fell in immediately ( tho no great friend to church-men , who are even with him in most of their histories ) and wrote to the chancellor to set the archbishop at liberty ; who refusing to do it , he raised a considerable army , and drove his enemy to great straits , and at last suffered him to transport himself out of the land ; having first , in the presence and with the consent of many bishops , judges , and great-men , and the citizens of london , decreed , that he was not fit to bear any rule , or live any longer in the kingdom . when this good company was got together , earl john resolved they should not part without a tast of his intentions , and therefore the same day both he and the archbishop of roan ( who was put into the chancellor's place , as one of the administrators of the kingdom ) and others of the king's justices granted to the citizens of london , habere communam suam ; and again in the same year , john and the archbishop of roan , with almost all the bishops , earls , and barons , swore they would most firmly and inviolably ( as long as it should please the king ) observe and keep communam illam . the glossary to the x. scriptores interprets communam by association and confederation , as if it were , that these lords and great folks took the citizens of london into council with them , and made them join with them in passing their decree and sentence on the chancellor . they did indeed do so ; but this is not enough methinks . i have the authority of a most excellent skilled person both in these and all other learned matters whatsoever , that communa signifies in the place , privileges , and immunities , and by the sense , i believe we should all of us construe it so : for by the passage , with its circumstances , it appears , that there was a combination of lords and bishops and the citizens of london , in favour of john , against any other successor . and the citizens of london on their part , swore faithful service [ took the oath of fidelity ] to king richard and his heirs , and engaged , that if he died without issue , they would receive john for their lord and king. and thereupon sware fidelity to him against all men , saving their oath to richard. radulph . de diceto , and joh. bromton make no mention of these londoners swearing ; but roger hoveden does ( in his annals , pag. . ) who lived and wrote in king john's days ; and to him i refer you , if you please . this makes me inclinable to interpret communam by something that the citizens of london liked , because they seemed to do a very bold and an unjust thing , in lieu of it : they took an oath of fidelity to one , who was neither heir by god's , nor by the laws of the land , nor yet by designation and appointment of the king then living , who was very angry at these proceedings , and spoke very hard words of his brother john ; and there is great reason to believe these strange doings ( as well as the departure of his enemy king philip of france ) hastened his return the sooner into england . but in his return he was unfortunately taken prisoner by the duke of austria , and delivered into the emperor's hands , and there continued sixteen or eighteen months . this opportunity his brother john laid hold on , and by the instigation of the french king , opened his purposes and sought the crown , sometimes giving out the king was dead , and sometimes that the emperor resolved never to let him go . ( and some historians tell us that the king of france , and john , made mighty offers to the emperor , either to detain him , or deliver him up into their hands , which he had much ado to resist . ) but the nobility opposed him constantly , and kept their faith inviolable to their king , to their great praise , and however careless and injurious they had been with respect to arthur's right of succession , yet they were very bold and faithful to their present king in possession ; insomuch that instead of delivering up the kingdom , and swearing allegiance to him , as he demanded , they very vigorously besieged him and his , in windsor-castle , and forc'd him to surrender that and other holds , and fly the kingdom ; which he did , and betook himself to his old friend the king of france , to whom he became liege-man , and did homage for normandy , which yet would not submit to john , but declared it self for its old master , whom they hoped to see at home again , and safe in a short time . and so they did ; for richard came and landed at sandwich in kent , and was joyfully receiv'd of all his subjects throughout the kingdom , excepting some few places which held out for john , which in a little time were reduc'd , and taken into mercy by the king , who , by the advice of the bishops , was again crown'd , with great pomp at winchester . this is a long history , you will think , tho i have greatly shortened it ; but whereto does it serve ? why some have confounded these two attempts of john , and made but one of them ; and some have only mentioned his attempt during his brother's imprisonment , which yet , you see , was a second undertaking , in pursuance of the first , which made way ( as he imagined ) for it . the use i make of it , is this , to shew you , that john , by this first treasonable attempt of causing people to swear fidelity to him , against the king's will , and without his knowledge , and when he was not so much as presumptive heir , must make him justly liable both to the king's anger , and to the punishment of the laws of the land ; but that his second attempt upon the crown made him undoubtedly a traitor , and not to be endur'd either by king or subject . i know not how a subject can become more dangerous , and to be suspected , than by having once been sworn into the succession , without his prince's knowledge and good will , and having afterwards demanded openly the crown , altho his king was then alive : and sure , his succeeding so well as he did the first time , and his attempting it the second time , must make him a dangerous competitor to the king , and fit to be excluded by an oath of abjuration . but nothing of this was thought upon . richard , after the reduction of the castles that held out in john's favour , summoned a parliament at nottingham , ( such as the parliament was then ) on the thirtieth of march . [ trigesima die mensis martii feria quarta ricardus rex angliae celebravit primum concilii sui diem apud nottingham : as r. hoveden , pag. . ] where were present elianor the king's mother , the two archbishops , david the king of scotland's brother , the bishops and the barons : and on the day following , the king demanded justice should be done him , on his brother john , who against his oath of allegiance , had seised on his castles , destroyed his countries , both at home and abroad , and leagued against him with the king of france , his enemy . and it was adjudged , that earl john should be cited to appear within forty days , and stand to the law , and that if he did not — judicaverunt comitem johannem demeruisse regnum , saith hoveden . ipsum fratrem suum rex exhaeredavit . annal. waverl . an. . omne jus pristinum & honorem impensum solenni judicio procerum suorum abjudicavit , saith j. brompton , from w. hemingford ( whom he constantly copies , and cites by the name of walter de giseburn , pag. . lin . . ) judicio procerum omni honore privavit , saith h. knighton , l. . pag. . but the annales de margan , ( put out by the most excellently learned dr. gale , in , ) go , to my thinking , a great way farther than all the rest . the passage is somewhat long , but remarkable enough to make you amends for the patience of reading it . thus then in the year m c xc ix . after richard's death , john his brother , in the octaves of easter , having entred upon the dukedom of normandy , coming over into england , was crowned king on ascension-day at westminster , may . against the judgment and decree of the archbishops , bishops , earls and barons , and all the rest of the great men of england , which they had passed at nottingham in the presence of king richard his brother , where for the treason he had acted against the king , and kingdom , in confederacy with the king of france , he was disinherited and depriv'd ( abjudicatus , which i cannot construe better ) not only of all the lands he had in england , but also of all honors which he might hope for , or expect to have from the crown of england . it was also decreed , that he should be summoned to appear , in such a space of time , within the king's courts , to answer and defend himself , if he could , upon the war and treason aforesaid , raised and committed whilst his brother was abroad , and detain'd in germany ; but he came not himself , nor sent any other to answer for him . upon which , three earls , his peers , were sent to the court of france , there to convict him of the same treason ; but neither did he make his appearance there , or answer for himself . and yet against this judgment and decree , he is crowned king ; william de breuse , together with his faction , pressing instantly for his coronation . in which coronation all that were concerned , offended grievously , as well because john had no right to the kingdom , arthur , his elder brother's son , being then alive , as also , that if he had been heir of the kingdom , yet by and for the above repeated treason , he had been deprived and difinherited . this is a famous passage , and makes very much for a bill of exclusion , at least , if i mistake not ; and there was so much in it , that when the pope's legat was dissuading the king of france from sending his son lewis into england ( as the barons and great men had by express messengers desir'd him to do ) and told him , england then was s. peter's patrimony , by the resignation of king john ; the king of france told him , that england never was john's to give , ( as well because no king can give away his kingdom , without their consent , as also ) because he had forfeited all right to the crown ( if right he had had ) by his treasons against richard , of which he stood convict , and had had sentence passed upon him , as a traitor , by hugh de pudsey , bishop of durham . thus matth. westm. tho matth. paris represents it a little otherwise . but tho the king and parliament proceeded to an act of exclusion , yet they put no one upon abjuring john by name . they thought it enough to secure the present king by an oath of allegiance , and to put by john from succeeding him ; but no one ever was constrain'd to swear he never should , nor ought to , be king. they hurt john as much as they could , by freeing the subject from swearing to him ; but they intended not to hurt the subjects , by compelling them to swear against him . methinks there is great deal of difference betwixt these two points ; and that 's the use i would have you make of this long story , which i will conclude , when i have added , that tho john afterwards did actually succeed his brother richard ; tho arthur had been declared successor to richard ; tho it was the opinion of all the world , both abroad and at home , that arthur was the undoubted heir of the crown ; tho many nobles sided with him ; tho he claim'd the crown himself openly , and gave john abundance of trouble , and alarm'd him daily ; yet did john never attempt to get him abjured by the nation , nor to secure himself any other way than by the common oath of allegiance . he afterwards caught him , and in all likelyhood ordered him to be made away privately ; but that was nothing to the people of england . he died , 't is thought , about , but his sister ellinor , commonly called the damosel of britanny , lived till after . tho she undoubtedly was the heiress of the crown , if the nation had regarded the lineal and immediate succession , as much in those , as in these latter days , which it is manifest they did not . the long and troublesome reign of henry the third , the times of edward the first and second afford me nothing to my present purpose : they had no rivals or competitors to fear , nor consequently any occasion of securing themselves by any oath of abjuration . when edward the third was crowned king , upon the deposition of his father , tho edmond of kent , and others , attempted to deliver him from his imprisonment , and re-instate him again , yet the young king sought not his safety and establishment by any oath of abjuration of his father . it was enough , that the several estates of the kingdom , had by deputies appointed for the purpose , solemnly renounced their allegiance to him , and chosen his son to reign in his stead and taken the usual oath of allegiance to him ; this was then esteemed sufficient security for the young king , without concerning the whole kingdom in an oath of abjuration . and this was the case of henry the fourth , when richard the second was deposed , the crown was entail'd by parliament on him and his sons , but there was no abjuring richard , by an oath to be taken by the subjects . the estates of the realm deposed him very solemnly ( even without any notice taken of his resignation , though after he had made it ) objecting such and such crimes , as deserv'd it ; which they might well have spar'd , and surely would have done it , even for pities sake , if they had not intended thereby to shew and exercise a power they thought inherent in them , on such extraordinary occasions . i will not trouble you with the instance of henry vi. with regard to richard duke of york , who made claim upon him ; nor of edward iv. with regard to henry vi. neither of which princes thought of securing themselves by any oath of abjuration . because you may say , there was no need of their doing so , since both of them looked upon themselves as rightful possessors of the throne ; and what need was there of causing the subjects to abjure the right of one who had no right at that time ; nor , ( as they thought ) at any time besides ? for i make no question but henry vi. look'd on himself as most rightful king ; and truly the succession of three generations , and the possession , for above threescore years , of royalty , might have made a more devout and conscientious prince than henry was ( if it could be ) believe so too . neither will it serve to my purpose , to instance in richard iii. with regard to the son and daughter of his elder brother george duke of clarence , because he confided so far in the attaindour of the father , that he had no suspicion of the children ; he bastardiz'd , depos'd , and murther'd , the children of his brother edward iv. but he thought the act of parliament had secur'd him against the family of clarence , and therefore was regardless of them . we have no reason to think he acted out of any better principle , towards them . and it was not then perhaps so clear in law , as since , that the crown takes away all defects and stops in blood ; and that from the time the king assumes the crown , the fountain is cleared , and all attaindors and corruption of blood discharged ; which was the resolution of the judges , in the case of henry vii . the instances i have mentioned before , from edgar atheling to richard ii. are enow , and sufficient to my purpose , or none are . and i hope from them , you will be able to see , what i design'd to shew you , in the first place , that , though we have had so many occasions , where an oath of abjuration was full as reasonable , as convenient , and as necessary , as it can possibly be at this day , yet we have never had one . and therefore , that an oath of abjuration would be altogether strange and new in england . and if you do not also see , as it were by the by , from these collections , that the oaths of fidelity and allegiance , have been constantly imposed on , and taken by , the subjects of the land ( concern'd to take them ) . to such persons as were by the consent and approbation of the three estates of the kingdom , invested with the regal power , although they could not lay claim thereto , by lineal and legal succession : if you do not see this , i shall think i have represented matter but confusedly . believe me then , in short , an oath of allegiance was always taken , but an oath of abjuration , never . i am now , in the second place , to shew you , according to my skill , that an oath of abjuration is altogether needless . if it be needful , it is only needful to the securing their present majesties in the possession of the throne , which they ( in our opinion i am sure ) fill most deservedly . but this is not to be done by an oath of abjuration , if it will not be done by an oath of allegiance . and i may well presume , that such as refuse the oath of allegiance , will never take an oath of abjuration ; so that here will be no new subjects gain'd we may be sure ; and if it will neither gain new subjects , nor fasten the old ones closer to their majesties interest , where is the necessity of imposing it ? do their majesties , i pray , want any thing more than allegiance and fidelity from all , or any of their subjects , in the respective stations they stand related to their princes in ? no one , i think , will say they do . if all men therefore would fulfil their oaths of allegiance and fidelity , what need would there be of imposing any new ones ? it is not taking new oaths , but keeping the old ones , that must secure their present majesties ; and will any man that does not make a conscience of fulfilling the oaths he has taken , be scrupulous of either taking , or breaking , any new ones ? what should hinder one from taking an oath of abjuration , who has no regard to his oath of allegiance ? and what security can you have against the breach of a second oath , from one who shews apparently he values not his first ? do you not therefore see that such as knowingly break their allegiance oath , will take at last ( though not without some kind of scruple neither ) the oath of abjuration and break it , when it is convenient , full as knowingly ? we see men , frequently , that are nice and squeamish , with respect to some offences , who yet make very bold with others , altogether as heinous ; but it is seldom seen that a man grows tenderer in a point wherein he has once or twice : offended . he who has taken the oath of allegiance to their majesties , and yet will comfort , and abett , and correspond with any of their enemies , will take the oath again , and proceed to whatever oath you shall impose , and still retain the same mind , and pursue the same . design ; and he may do it all , upon the same principle , by which he acts , when he breaks his oath of allegiance . so that an oath of abjuration , will neither gain their majesties any new friends , nor fix the old ones faster to them , nor yet discover any old or new enemies . and what is an oath good for , that will answer to none of these ends and purposes ? that will neither discover truth nor falshood ? that will neither make nor keep . men honester or more loyal than they were before , nor yet prevent them from being false and traiterous , or shew us when they are so ? i make no doubt but this is the pretence and plea for an oath of abjuration , that it will discover who are enemies to the present government ; and this is that which may make it appear most reasonable to be imposed . if it will not therefore do this , it will do nothing , or it will do mischief . this i conclude it will never do ( i. e. discover who are enemies to the government ) for this reason . because ( supposing all along , that none will take an oath of abjuration , who have refused to take the oath of allegiance , and therefore that they alone who have taken the oath of allegiance , will take the abjuration oath ) they who have taken the oath of allegiance malâ fide , who design ( or whether they design or no , do actually do it ) to serve and succour the late king , will also certainly take the abjuration oath . they who have falsified their faith to king william and queen mary , in favour of the late king will not stand out upon another oath , by which they shall not only lose perhaps a beneficial office , but also incapacitate themselves for either hurting their present majesties , or serving their late master . this i have before shewed , and it is not in man to find out , or assign , one tolerable reason why they should not do it . will therefore any such persidious men as these be discovered by an oath of abjuration ? will they not rather be enabled to do more mischief by being more trusted for such an oath , which they esteem and will keep just as they did the other ? so that the king and queens enemies will lie as safe and close under an oath of abjuration , as under an allegiance oath : for what , i would know , does the most solemn and tremendous oath signifie , unless the party think himself oblig'd in conscience to observe it ? and if he do not think himself oblig'd in conscience , to observe and keep his oath of allegiance , what is there that should tie an abjuration oath upon him ? for the tie and sanction of both these oaths must be the same , and the breach of them must be alike criminal , and will be punished alike , in both worlds , inasmuch as a man is equally perjur'd in little and in great matters : and if any man will shew how he may safely violate his oath of allegiance , with a good conscience , i will do as much for him , for the violation of the strictest oath of abjuration , in the world. i hope you perceive then , that they who will take an oath of allegiance to their present majesties , and make no manner of conscience of performing it , but actually serve , and correspond with their enemies , will also make no bones of taking and breaking an oath of abjuration ; which is the reason from whence i conclude an oath of abjuration will not serve to discover the king and queens enemies , which yet it certainly pretends to do . they are , it seems , to be discovered by refusing the oath ; but they intend to take the oath , and where is the discovery ? well , but will all that take the oath of allegiance take the oath of abjuration ? no , unquestionably no. will not therefore those who refuse it , be thereby discovered to be enemies to the present government ? i say again no. they will not be discovered to be enemies , because they will not be thereby its enemies . let us , for once divide the people that have taken the oath of allegiance to their majesties into , . such as have taken and kept it bona side . . such as have taken and broken it wittingly and willingly , and with an evil mind . of these latter , we have seen , no manner of good can be expected . they will neither be made good subjects , by a new oath , nor discovered to be bad ones by it . a new oath will therefore only affect such as have taken the oath of allegiance bonâ fide , and kept it very honestly . and is it likely that they who have done so should be enemies to the government ? i grant you , that a great many scrupled and considered long , before they ventur'd on the oaths ; but are not scruple and consideration tokens of a good and honest mind ? and if after scruple and consideration , they took the oaths , and since have kept them well and honestly , what reason is there to think , or call , these people enemies to the government , though they should go no farther ? the legislative power imposed the oath of allegiance on the subject , and intended it for the security and establishment of the present government ; the subject takes the oath and keeps it faithfully , how is he then an enemy ? my friend desires me to walk a mile with him , to conduct him homewards , and see him safe through such a thieving lane , and i consent ; and when he comes to the miles end , his fears grow greater , and he desires me to walk another mile , but i tell him , it is late , and i can go no farther without inconveniency and danger to my self , and for this he quarrels me , and accounts me his enemy . i leave you to judg with what reason . i did what he desir'd at first , and thought , with all his foresight and distrust , would be sufficient to secure him ( and so did all that passed that way before him ) but i can do no more , and be secure my self . sure , though i can no longer serve him , yet i have served him hitherto , and may deserve a better name than enemy . what think you of the application ? must those be enemies to the present government , who took the oath of allegiance to their majesties , which was all that was required and thought sufficient for their safety , and have all along kept it inviolable , and served them faithfully and diligently ; must these be reckon'd enemies , because they will not also take an oath of abjuration ? will therefore an oath of abjuration discover who are the king and queens enemies ? but that i may not seem to deny every thing to an oath of abjuration , after having shewn you what i think it will not discover , i will now shew you , what , i think , it will discover . and first , it will discover the nakedness of the land ; it will discover the distress and straits , we find our selves reduc'd to , when we must have recourse to such extremities . when that which secures all other governments in the world besides , and that which has secured our own , as well as any other , for so many hundreds of years ( viz. an oath of allegiance to the possessors of the throne ) will not secure , or be thought sufficient to secure , the present government , on what foundation will the world about us think we stand ? they have seen us choose , and place upon the throne , our princes , with all good liking and affection possible : and they will see us now , forc'd to be chain'd to our obedience , and tied down groveling on the ground for fear of rising up against them . this posture will not please our friends abroad , who understand our generous tempers better ; they will fear the effects of such unusual bonds . and for our enemies abroad , they undoubtedly will do , as our enemies at home do , rejoyce exceedingly , at such an oath , the jacobites ( as all the discontented disaffected people are now call'd ) have hitherto shewn themselves but puny politicians ; their designs have neither wanted malice nor barbarity , but they have laid and manag'd them , with so much weakness and simplicity , that they seem to be infatuated very much : but yet they are wise enough to foresee the advantages they are like to reap from the distractions an oath of abjuration will undoubtedly produce amongst us . and though some of them may be set to decry it publickly , as a most abominable unheard-of thing , and others of them , in their weakness , truly believe it is so , yet the managers of the party , and more understanding people amongst them , do underhand abett , and favour it exceedingly , well knowing they shall find their account therein . this is one thing an oath of abjuration will discover , it will discover our distress . secondly , it will discover , who can serve the king no longer ; that is certain : we shall see thereby , who they are , that can pay their majesties no more than allegiance and fidelity ; that is , who can pay no more , than has at any time been paid , to all or any of their predecessors , for above six hundred years ; no more than any of their predecessors have at any time demanded ; this we shall see , and these discoveries will be made thereby . but what shall we get by such discoveries ? they will please no good subjects ; there will be little joy in seeing a great number of good people , that serve their present majesties with faithfulness , and honesty , and diligence , and with affection too , dispossess'd of their employments , and incapacitated to serve them any longer : for to be sure , no other but the honest , faithful , and the conscientious will be dispossess'd thereby . no false subjects , none that can play with an allegiance-oath , will forfeit any thing for fear of an abjuration-oath . an abjuration-oath will therefore discover those who can serve their majesties as far as an oath of allegiance can carry them , but no farther ; and that is a second discovery , but such a one , as no good english man can desire to make , in your opinion . thirdly , an abjuration-oath , will discover , it is hoped — a short passage to the west and east indies — a fresh spanish wreck — a new and ready way to benesicial offices , and great preferments . if it do not lay open the road to good employments , by new vacancies , it will be good for just nothing . if those who take the allegiance-oath , should chance to take ( as who can tell ? ) the abjuration-oath , and continue as they were , you would hear no more talk of its great security , and tendency to the establishment of the present government . if this could be foreseen , an oath of allegiance would suffice ( in their opinion ) for any king or queen in christendom . if you think , sir , i go too far in this matter , i retract . i had rather much , be mistaken in my guesses , than that any considerable body of english gentlemen should prefer so vile and selfish a design , to the peace and welfare of their natural country . but if you knew this part of mankind as well as i do , you would still fear , that the way to offices and good preferments , was one of the discoveries design'd to be made by an oath of abjuration , by a great many people . but , to draw to a conclusion of this head ; an oath of abjuration must be altogether needless , if it will effect no greater matters to the security of the present government , than an oath of allegiance will do . now , though all the men in england who have taken the oath of allegiance , should also take the oath of abjuration , yet it is from the oath of allegigiance and fidelity , the government must look for , and find its security , and not from the oath of abjuration . for he who has sworn allegiance and fidelity to king william and queen mary , has sworn , he will obey and serve them according to his power , and shew himself a good and faithful subject to them in the respective post and station , he is in . he is not only tied thereby to live peaceably and quietly under their government , without offending against their laws , or doing any thing to their prejudice , but he is tied to activity in their behalf and defence , if his post and station be such as requires him to be active . no one , that in good conscience took the oath to their present majesties can find himself at liberty to serve , by any ways or means , one that would certainly dethrone them . this is , undoubtedly , the least that an oath of allegiance can do , that it ties the hands of all that take it , from lending any manner of aid or assistance to the late king james . but if his post be active , he is farther oblig'd thereby to be active in their defence . if a privy councellor , a bishop , and a general , take the oath of allegiance to king william and queen mary , they are undoubtedly oblig'd thereby , to advise faithfully and keep the secrets , to pray for the prosperity , and fight the battles , of them . so that as far as , and wherever , the office requires activity , the oath obliges to it : and all the security a prince can expect must come and arise from the obligation of such an oath . on the other hand , what would it signifie , or contribute , to the security of their present majesties , that a man should swear they were the legal , lineal , just , and rightful possessors of the crown , and renounce , abjure , and disclaim , all right and title of the late king james thereto ; unless he held himself oblig'd , by virtue of his oath of allegiance , to keep and defend them in their present possession , to the best of his power , against all claimers whatsoever ? i know there is a great deal of difference , betwixt an oath of allegiance and fidelity simply such , and an oath of allegiance which is also declarative of right . but the difference does not lie , in this , that an oath declarative of right , is of greater security to the prince , than an oath of allegiance . without such declaration . for he who takes an oath of allegiance , gives him●●●f to whom he swears , a right to his allegiance for the time to come , although he may be suppos'd to have had no right to it before , and therefore owes the prince as much allegiance after his oath , as if he had in the oath acknowledged him to be the most rightful prince in the world. as if a man oblige himself by oath to pay another an hundred pound , he is as strongly oblig'd to pay it him , by virtue of his oath , as if he had truly borrowed it in time past of him . the oath has given the other a right to the mony , and by the oath the promiser is oblig'd to pay it . i do not say , that a man would not choose , if he could , rather to have a double right to his mony , both that of debt , and that of oath , than a single one of oath ; but i say that an oath , ( if the man be able and conscientious ) will as certainly secure the mony to the other , as both an oath and debt . by this i mean to say , that the oath of allegiance is of it self as great security to the prince , as if a man should withal both recognize the princes right , and abjure , and renounce to the title and right of any other . because the security arises to the prince from the positive engagement of the subject to do something for him , to do nothing against him , to pay him service and obedience , and to defend him against his enemies , to his power ; and not from acknowledging him to be the rightful prince , and swearing that another has no right to his allegiance , which may be true , but signifie nothing to his security . it is therefore evident , that all the security that can arise to the prince , depends upon the honest taking , and the honest keeping of the oath of allegiance , which implies obedience and assistance ; and that he who hath taken that oath with good intent , hath thereby given himself a bondsman , to pay obedience and assistance , which is as much as any prince can either want , or have , from all the recognitions and acknowledgments of right that can be made . and these are the considerations upon which i ground my second conclusion , that an oath of abjuration is altogether needless . it will not secure a king where an oath of allegiance will not . it will make no new friends . it will fix no old ones faster . it will discover no enemies . it will do nothing but mischief . iii. i have only now to shew you , in the third place , that an oath of abjuration is impossible to be kept . i have already considered the abjuring the right and title of the late king in the foregoing article , and shewn the doing so ( tho done with good faith ) would prove no manner of security to their present majesties . the other part of abjuration is of his person and government ; as if we should swear — we will not have this man to reign over us . i say such an abjuration-oath is , or may be , impossible to be kept ; and therefore should not be imposed . for if he should come in by conquest , how can any single subject hinder him ? if the obstinate fight at landen had determin'd of that valuable life , upon which our safeties do all so much depend ; if god in his anger should remove our excellent princess ( neither of which things were or are any way impossible ) what would become of us ? if therefore we mean any thing more by abjuring his person , than that we wish he may never return , and that we will contribute neither money , counsel , neither intelligence , nor corporal aid , we must mean no sense , for all besides is no sense ; and if we mean nothing but this , we certainly mean and intend this , by our oaths of allegiance and fidelity ; for they exact as much as this comes to , at our hands ; to abjure him beyond this , is as if a man should take an oath , never to have a fever , which yet he cannot possibly prevent ; he may promise safely , that he does not covet it , that he will live temperately , and pray to god to keep it from him , but he can't forswear its seizing on him ; and when it comes he must be patient under it . and sure , it would be a hardship on a man , to have more than this required , when 't is impossible he should perform more . this , sir , is my sense and opinion of an oath of abjuration . if it hit not with yours , or any man as wise and good , you will pardon it . if it convince any one otherwise minded , if it confirm and settle any one in the like ; in a word , if it will do any good ; if it will prevent any evil or confusion , if it will any ways tend to the security of their present majesties , and the prosperous continuance of their government over us , i shall be glad , and think my time and pains well spent . and whether it do any of this or no , i must be contented ; i know i design'd it well , and i know moreover , that if i err in my judgment , i err with good company , even with the major part of the honorable house of commons , in two successive sessions , whose judgment i must needs prefer to the best and most understanding acquaintance you can possibly have . i am , sir , your affectionate humble servant . finis . ecclesiastical cases relating to the duties and rights of the parochial clergy stated and resolved according to the principles of conscience and law / by the right reverend father in god, edward, lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) ecclesiastical cases relating to the duties and rights of the parochial clergy stated and resolved according to the principles of conscience and law / by the right reverend father in god, edward, lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . xxvii, [ ], p. printed by j.h. for henry mortlock.., london : . reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. includes bibliographical references. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng ecclesiastical law -- england. law reports, digests, etc. -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - rina kor sampled and proofread - rina kor text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion ecclesiastical cases relating to the duties and rights of the parochial clergy , stated and resolved according to the principles of conscience and law : by the right reverend father in god , edward , lord bishop of worcester . london , printed by i. h. for henry mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , . to the reverend clergy of the diocese of worcester . my brethren , the following discourses do of right belong to you ; the substance of them being contained in what i delivered to you in several times and places , in the course of my visitations : in which i endeavoured to lay open the nature and dignity of your function , the rules you are to observe in the discharge of it , and to state and resolve the most important cases which relate to your duties and rights , according to the principles both of law and conscience . for i observed that some had spoken very well of the general nature of the ecclesiastical function , without a particular regard to the limitations of the exercise of it by our laws . others had endeavoured to give advice and counsel in point of law , who meddle not with the obligation of conscience . and therefore i thought it necessary to joyn both these together , that you might have a clear and distinct view of your duties in both respects . for in a matter of positive institution , where only the general duties are prescribed in scripture , and the bounds of the exercise of them depend upon the laws of the land , i could not see how any person could satisfie himself in the discharge of his duty , without a regard to both . for the care of souls in general , is a matter of wonderful weight and importance , and can never be sufficiently considered by those who are concerned in it . but no man among us takes upon him an indefinite care of souls , without regard to persons or places ; for that would produce confusion and endless scruples , and perplexities of conscience about the nature and obligation to particular duties , which cannot be prevented or removed without a right understanding the different respect all that have taken our holy function upon them , do stand in both to the church in general , and to that particular cure of souls which they are admitted to . the best way i know to represent them , is to consider the case of dominion and property ; and how far the vniversal obligation of mankind to promote each others good , is consistent with the care of their own and families welfare . adam had in himself the entire and original dominion over all those things , which after became the subject of particular property ; when his posterity found it necessary to make and allow several shares and allotments to distinct families , so as they were not to incroach , or break in upon one another . but the law of nature did not prescribe the way and method of partition , but left that to occupancy or compact : and so the heads of families upon their settlement in any countrey , had a twofold obligation upon them ; the first was to preserve the interest of the whole body , to which they still were bound , and were to shew it upon such occasions as required it . the next was to take particular care of these shares which belonged to themselves , so as to improve them for their service , and to protect them from the invasion of others . and although this division of property was not made by any antecedent law , yet being once made , and so useful to mankind , the violation of it , by taking that which is anothers right , is a manifest violation of the law of nature . i do not think , that the distribution of ecclesiastical cures , for the greater benefit of the people , is of so strict a nature ; because the matter of property doth not extend to this case in such a manner . but since an vniversal good is carried on by such a division far better than it could be without it , there is an obligation lying on all persons who regard it , to preserve that order which conduces to so good an end. and i cannot see how any persons can better justifie the breach of parochial communion as such , than others can justifie the altering the bounds of mens rights and properties , because they apprehend that the common good may be best promoted by returning to the first community of all things . if our blessed saviour , or his holy apostles in the first founding of churches , had determined the number of persons , or fixed the bounds of places within which those who were ordained to so holy a function , were to take care of the souls committed to them , there could have been no dispute about it among those who owned their authority . but their business was to lay down the qualifications of such as were fit to be imployed in it ; to set before them the nature of their duties , and the account they must give of the discharge of them ; and to exhort all such as under took it to a watchfulness , and diligence in their places ; but they never go about to limit the precincts , within which they were to exercise the duties incumbent upon them . when churches were first planted in several countries , there could be no such things expected as parochial divisions ; for these were the consequents of the general spreading of christianity among the people . as is evident in the best account we have of the settlement of the parochial clergy among us , after christianity was received by the saxons . which was not done all at once , but by several steps and degrees . it cannot be denied by any , that are conversant in our histories , that the nation was gradually converted from paganism by the succesful endeavours of some bishops and their clergy in the several parts of england . not by commission from one person ( as is commonly supposed ) but several bishops came from several places , and applied themselves to this excellent work , and god gave them considerable success in it . thus bizinus did great service among the west saxons ; and felix the burgundian among the east-saxons ; and the northern bishops in the midland-parts , as well as augustin and his companions in the kingdom of kent . and in these midland-parts , as christianity increased , so the bishops sees were multiplied ( five out of one ) and placed in the most convenient distances for the further inlarging and establishing christianity among the people . the bishops were resident in their own sees , and had their clergy then about them , whom they sent abroad , as they saw cause , to those places where they had the fairest hopes of success . and according thereto they either continued or removed them , having yet no fixed cures or titles . all the first titles were no other than being entred in the bishops register , as of his clergy , from which relation none could discharge himself , without the bishop's consent . but as yet the clergy had no titles to any particular places , there being no fixed bounds of parishes , wherein any persons were obliged to be resident for the better discharge of their duties . this state of an vnfixed and itinerant clergy was soon found to be very inconvenient ; and therefore all incouragement was given , where christianity most prevailed , for the building churches at a convenient distance from the cathedral , and setling a number of presbyters together there , which were after called collegiate-churches ; and the great and devout men of that time gave them liberal endowments that they might the better attend the service of god there , and in the countrey about them . but after that the several parts grew to be more populous , and lords of manors , for the conveniency of themselves and their tenants , were willing to erect churches within their precincts , laws were then made , that they might detain one share of the tithes for the supply of this new church ; the other two remaining due to the mother church . and i can find nothing like any allowance for the lords of manors to appropriate the other two parts as they thought fit . for those manors themselves were but parcels of larger parishes ; and the tithes were due from those estates , which were no part of their manors , and therefore they had nothing to do with them . but after the norman invasion , the poor parochial clergy being saxons , and the nobility and bishops normans , they regarded not how much they reduced the inferiour clergy , to enrich the monasteries belonging to the normans , either at home or abroad . and this i take to be the true reason of the multitude of appropriations of two thirds of the tithes in the norman times , and too often with the consent of the bishops , who ought to have shewed more regard to the interest of the parochial clergy than they generally did . but of this i have discoursed more at large in one of the following cases . in the latter end of the saxon times , if we believe those called the confessors laws , after all the danish devastations , there were three or four churches where there had been but one before . by which it appears that the parochial clergy were numerous before the conquest . and within this diocess , in two deanaries of it , there are to be found in doomsday-book above twenty parish-churches : in the deanary of warwick , ten ; and in the deanary of kingstone , fifteen : but of the former seven were appropriated in the norman times ; and of the latter , ten ; by which we may see to how low a condition they then brought the parochial clergy . one church in the former deanary i find built in that time , and that was at exhal ; which was before a chapel to salford , but was erected in the time of h. . by the lord of the manor and freeholders , who gave the glebe and tithes , as appears by the confirmation of simon bishop of worcester . many other parochial churches , i doubt not , were built and endowed after the same manner , although the records of them are lost . and as churches were new erected , the parochial bounds were fixed , that the people might certainly know whither they were to resort for divine worship , who were bound to attend them as part of their charge , from whose hands they were to receive the holy sacraments , and whose advice and counsel they were to take in matters which related to the salvation of their souls . now here lies the main difficulty with some people ; they cannot think that parochial bounds are to determine them in what concerns the good of their souls ; but if they can edifie more by the parts and gifts of another , they conclude , that it is their duty to forsake their own minister , and go to such a one as they like . i meddle not with extraordinary occasions of absence , nor with the case of scandalous incumbents , because it is the peoples fault if they be not prosecuted , and the place supplied by better men. but the case , as it ought to be put , is , how far a regard is to be shewed to a constitution so much for the general good , as that of parochial communion is . we do not say , that mens consciences are bound by perambulations , or that it is a sin at any time to go to another parish ; but we say , that a constant fixed parochial communion , tends more to preserve the honour of god , and the religion established among us , to promote peace and vnity among neighbours , and to prevent the mischief of separation . and what advances so good ends , is certainly the best means of edification : which lies not in moving the fansie , or warming the passions , but in what brings men to a due temper of mind , and a holy , peaceable , and unblameable conversation . and as to these excellent ends , it is not only your duty with great zeal and diligence to perswade your people to them ; but to go before them your selves in the practice of them . for they will never have any hearty regard or esteem for what any one says , if they find him to contradict it in the course of his life . suppose it be the peoples fault to shew so little regard to your profession ; yet you are bound to consider how far you may have given too much occasion for it , and their fault can be no excuse for you , if any of your own were the true occasion of theirs . we live in an age wherein the conversations of the clergy are more observed than their doctrines . too many are busie in finding out the faults of the clergy , the better to cover their own ; and among such priest craft is become the most popular argument for their insidelity . if they could once make it appear ; that all religion were nothing but a cheat and imposture of some cunning men for their own advantage , who believed nothing of it themselves ; and that all the business of our profession was to support such a fraud in the world for our own interest , they were very excusable in their most bitter invectives against such priest-craft . for nothing is more to be abhorred by men of ingenuous minds , and natural probity , than to be the instruments of deceiving mankind in so gross a manner . but , thanks be to god , this is very far from being the case among us ; for our profession is built upon the belief of god and providence , the difference of good and evil , and the rewards and punishments of another life . if these things have no foundations , we are certain that the best , and wisest , and most disinterested men in all ages have been in the same fundamental mistakes . and it is now somewhat too late for any persons to set up for sagacity and true iudgment in these matters , above all those of foregoing ages . there is a mighty difference between slight and superficial reasonings , ( although some may be vain enough to cry them up for oracles ) and those which are built on the nature of things , and have born the test of so many ages , and remain still in the same degree of firmness and strength , notwithstanding all the batteries of profane and atheistical wits . for it cannot be denied , that such there have been in former times as well as now ; but that makes more for the advantage of religion , that our modern pretenders are fain to borrow from the old stock ; and scarce any thing worth answering hath been said by them , but hath been often said , and with more force by their masters . and the best philosophers of this age have given up the cause of atheism as indefensible ; so that the being of god and providence seems to be established by a general consent ; and if any secretly be of another mind , they think it not for their reputation to own it . the main pretence now is against revealed religion ; but without offering to shew how so great and considerable a part of mankind as the christian church hath been made up of , came to be so imposed upon , as to a doctrine which advances morality to the greatest height , and gives mankind the most assured hopes of a blessed immortality , when nothing like interest and design as to this world , could be carried on by the first and greatest promoters of it . but we are told in a late complaint made abroad by a friend of our deists ( wherein i am particularly concerned ) that we make objections for them which are most easie to answer , and pass over their most considerable difficulties . which is a very unjust charge , and cannot be made good but by producing those considerable difficulties which we have taken no notice of . for my part , i know of none such : and we make no objections for them ; however , we may think it our duty to lay open the weakness of them , when we are importuned to do it ; which was my case in the treatise i suppose he refers to . if they keep their considerable difficulties to themselves . i know not how we should be able to answer them . but it is the common way in a baffled cause still to pretend , that the main difficulties were not produced . but this is not a proper occasion to insist lon●er on these matters ; my present business is to answer the objection which immediately regards the clergy ; and the summ of it is , that our profession rather hinders than confirms the belief of religion ; because they who plead for what makes for their interest , are always suspected to be swayed more by interest than by reason . to give a full and clear answer to this , we must consider , that however mankind are apt to be swayed by interest , yet the truth and reason of things do not at all depend upon them ; for a thing is not true or false in it self , because it makes for or against a man ; and the measures of judging truth and falshood , are quite of another nature ; and so mens interests come not into consideration . so that in this case they are not to examine whose turn is served , whether such a thing be true or false ; but whether there be sufficient evidence to convince an impartial mind of the truth of it ; for let the reasons be produced by whom they please , the grounds of conviction are the same . if a man in a dispute about surveying a piece of land , which he claimed a right to , should appeal to the elements of geometry in his case , would the evidence be less because he was concerned in the land ? but we proceed farther ; suppose it be for the interest of religion in a nation , for an order of men to be set apart on purpose to attend the services of it ; and that there should be great incouragements for their education ; and a maintenance set apart for their subsistence afterwards , that they may not live in dependance on the humours and uncertain fancies of the people ; how can such a constitution take off from the credibility of that religion which they are to support ? was it any lessening to the authority of the law of moses , that the tribe of levi was so plentifully provided for by god's own appointment ? they were to teach the law to the people in the places where they were dispersed among the several tribes : and suppose it had been then said , why should we believe what you say , when you live by it ? you have cities , and lands , and tithes , and oblations , and dignities among you ; no wonder you set up this law as divine and holy ; but we get nothing by it , but part with a share of our profits to maintain you ? what then ? was the law therefore false , and moses an impostor ? these are hard consequences , but they naturally follow from such a supposition . and if such an inference were not reasonable then , neither will it appear to be so now . but we do not pretend that the parochial settlement of our clergy is by such a divine law as the levitical priesthood was ; but this we do insist upon , that the christian religion being owned and established in the nation , there was a necessary reason from the nature of it , and the obligation to preserve and support it , that there should be an order of men set apart for that end , that they should instruct the people in it , and perform the several offices belonging to it ; and that a sufficient maintenance be allowed them by the law of the land to support them in doing their duties . and i appeal to any men of sense or of common vnderstanding , whether on supposition that our religion is true , these be not very just and reasonable things ? how then can that make a religion suspected to be false , which are very reasonable , supposing it to be true ? if it be true , as most certainly it is , are not they bound to maintain it to be true ? and can it be the less so , because their subsistence depends upon it ? therefore all the impertinent talk of our profession being a trade , can signifie nothing to any men that understand the difference between scarron and euclid , or the way of burlesquing and of demonstration . there is still one common prejudice to be removed , and that is , that too many of those who preach up our religion , as true , do not live as if they believed it to be so . we are very sorry , there should be any occasion given for such a reproach as this ; and we hope there are not so many instances of it , as some would have it believed . woe be to those by whom such offences come . but supposing the instances true , is there any religion in the world , considering the follies and infirmities of mankind , which can secure all the professors of it from acting against the rules of it ? but if such instances are sufficiently proved , there ought to be the greater severity used in such cases ; because religion it self , as well as the honour of our church , suffers so much by them . but it will still be said , that these persons are secret infidels , and believe nothing of what they profess . this is another point , how far bad lives are consistent with sound opinions : some that think that men act consistently , will not allow that bad men can be any other than meer infidels ; but others who consider the prevalency of mens lusts and passions over their reasons , are apt to think that they may retain their good opinions , even when they act contrary to them : but then their consciences fly in their faces , and they condemn themselves for their evil actions . and then these very instances are an argument against infidelity ; for we may justly presume , that they would shake off their fears of another world , if they could . but why should some instances of this nature signifie more against religion , than the many remarkable examples of a godly , righteous and sober life among the clergy , to a stronger confirmation of it ? for they have had greater occasion of searching into all the considerable difficulties about religion , than others can pretend to ; and i do not know any that have imployed most time and pains about it , but have had greater satisfaction as to the truth and excellency of it . thus i have endeavoured to remove the most common prejudices of our times , against our profession . it would now be proper for me to give some particular directions to you , but that is so much the business of the following discourses , that i shall refer you to them ; and commend you to the grace and blessing of almighty god , that you may so carefully discharge your duties in this world , that it may advance your happiness in another . i am your affectionate friend and brother edw. wigorn . hartlebury c. apr. . . errata . preface , pag. viii . lin . . read birinus . p. xii . l. . r. kington . p. . l. . after fraudes add & . p. . l. . r. birinus . p. . l. . r. wulstan . p. . l. . r. flocks they go to . p. . l. . after but , insert to perswade you . p. . l. . for more r. meer . p. . l. . for titles r. tithes . p. . l. . r. a●b●rdus . p. . l. . r. guthrun . p. . l. . for than r. as . the contents . case i. the bishop of worcester's charge to the clergy of his diocess , in his primary visitation , &c. p. . ii. of the nature of the trust committed to the parochial clergy , &c. p. . iii. of the particular duties of the parochial clergy , &c. p. . iv. of the maintenance of the parochial clergy by law , p. . v. of the obligation to observe the ecclesiastical canons and constitutions , &c. p. . to which is annexed a discourse concerning bonds of resignation , &c. a catalogue of books published by the right reverend father in god , edward lord bishop of worcester , and sold by henry mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . a rational account of the grounds of the protestant religion ; being a vindication of the lord archbishop of canterbury's relation of a conference , &c. from the pretended answer of t. c. the second edition . folio . origines britannicae , or the antiquities of the british churches , with a preface concerning some pretended antiquities relating to britain , in vindication of the bishop of st. asaph . folio . irenicum , a weapon-salve for the churches wounds . quarto . origines sacrae : or a rational account of the grounds of christian faith , as to the truth and divine authority of the scriptures , and the matters therein contained . the fifth edition , corrected and amended . quarto . the unreasonableness of separation , or an impartial account of the history , nature and pleas of the present separation from the communion of the church of england . quarto . a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it , in answer to some papers of a revolted protestant , wherein a particular account is given of the fanaticism and divisions of that church . octavo . an answer to several late treatises occasioned by a book , entitled , a discourse concerning the idolatry practised of the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it : part i. octavo . a second discourse in vindication of the protestant grounds of faith , against the pretence of infallibility in the church of rome , in answer to the guide in controversie , by r. h. protestancy without principles , and reason , and religion ; or the certain rule of faith , by e. w. with a particular enquiry into the miracles of the roman church . octavo . an answer to mr. cressy's epistle apologetical to a person of honour , touching his vindication of dr. stillingfleet . octavo . a defence of the discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , in answer to a book entitled , catholicks no idolaters . octavo . several conferences between a romish priest , a fanatick chaplain , and a divine of the church of england ; being a full answer to the late dialogues of t. g. octavo . the council of trent examin'd and disprov'd by catholick tradition , in the main points in controversie between us and the church of rome ; with a particular account of the times and occasions of introducing them . a discourse concerning the doctrine of christ's satisfaction ; or the true reasons of his sufferings , with an answer to the socinian objections , and a preface concerning the true state of the controversie about christ's satisfaction . octavo . second edition . a discourse in vindication of the doctrine of the trinity : with an answer to the late socinian objections against it , from scripture , antiquity and reason : and a preface concerning the different explication of the trinity , and the tendency of the present socinian controversie . octavo . second edition . the bishop of worcester's answer to mr. locke's letter concerning some passages relating to his essay of humane understanding , mention'd in the late discourse in vindication of the trinity . octavo . the bishop of worcester's answer to mr. locke's second letter , wherein his notion of idea's is proved to be inconsistent with it self , and with the articles of the christian faith. octavo . sermons preached upon several occasions , in three volumes in octavo . the effigies of the right reverend father in god , edward lord bishop of worcester , engraven on a copper-plate . price d. the bishop of worcester's charge to the clergy of his diocese , in his primary visitation , begun at worcester , september th . . my brethren , this being my primary visitation , i thought it fitting to acquaint my self with the ancient as well as modern practice of episcopal visitations , and as near as i could , to observe the rules prescribed therein , with respect to the clergy , who are now summoned to appear . and i find there were two principal parts in them , a charge and an enquiry . the charge was given by the bishop himself , and was called admonitio episcopi , or allocutio ; wherein he informed them of their duty , and exhorted them to perform it . the enquiry was made according to certain articles drawn out of the canons , which were generally the same ; according to which the iuratores synodi ( as the ancient canonists call them ; or testes synodales ) were to give in their answers upon oath ; which was therefore called iuramentum synodale ; for the bishop's visitation was accounted an episcopal synod . the former of these is my present business ; and i shall take leave to speak my mind freely to you , this first time , concerning several things which i think most useful , and fit to be considered and practised by the clergy of this diocese . for , since it hath pleased god , by his wise and over-ruling providence , ( without my seeking ) to bring me into this station in his church , i shall esteem it the best circumstance of my present condition , if he please to make me an instrument of doing good among you . to this end , i thought it necessary in the first place , most humbly to implore his divine assistance , that i might both rightly understand , and conscientiously perform that great duty which is incumbent upon me ; for without his help , all our thoughts are vain , and our best purposes will be ineffectual . but god is not wanting to those who sincerely endeavour to know , and to do their duty ; and therefore in the next place , i set my self ( as far as my health and other occasions would permit ) to consider the nature and extent of my duty ; with a resolution not to be discouraged , altho i met with difficulties in the performance of it . for such is the state and condition of the world , that no man can design to to do good in it ; but when that crosses the particular interests and inclinations of others , he must expect to meet with as much trouble as their unquiet passions can give him . if we therefore consulted nothing but our own ease , the only way were to let people follow their humours and inclinations , and to be as little concerned as might be , at what they either say or do . for if we go about to rowze and awaken them , and much more to reprove and reform them , we shall soon find them uneasie and impatient ; for few love to hear of their faults , and fewer to amend them . but it is the peculiar honour of the christian religion , to have an order of men set apart , not meerly as priests , to offer sacrifices ( for that all religions have had ) but as preachers of righteousness , to set good and evil before the people committed to their charge ; to inform them of their duties , to reprove them for their miscarriages ; and that , not in order to their shame , but their reformation : which requires not only zeal , but discretion , and a great mixture of courage and prudence , that we may neither fail in doing our duty , nor in the best means of attaining the end of it . if we could reasonably suppose , that all those who are bound to tell others their duties , would certainly do their own , there would be less need of any such office in the church as that of bishops ; who are to inspect , and govern , and visit , and reform those who are to watch over others . but since there may be too great failings even in these ; too great neglect in some , and disorder in others ; too great proneness to faction and schism , and impatience of contradiction from mere equals ; therefore st. ierom himself grants , that to avoid these mischiefs , there was a necessity of a superiour order to presbyters in the church of god ; ad quem omnis ecclesiae cura pertineret , & schismatum semina tollerentur ; as he speaks , even where he seems most to lessen the authority of bishops . but whatever some expressions of his may be , ( when the bishop of ierusalem and the roman deacons came into his head ) his reasons are very much for the advantage of episcopal government . for can any man say more in point of reason for it , than that nothing but faction and disorder followed the government of presbyters , and therefore the whole christian church agreed in the necessity of a higher order , and that the peace and safety of the church depends upon it ; that if it be taken away , nothing but schisms and confusions will follow . i wish those who magnifie s. ierom's authority in this matter , would submit to his reason and authority both , as to the necessity and usefulness of the order of bishops in the church . but beyond this , in several places , he makes the bishops to be successors of the apostles , as well as the rest of the most eminent fathers of the church have done . if the apostolical office , as far as it concerns the care and government of churches , were not to continue after their decease , how came the best , the most learned , the nearest to the apostolical times , to be so wonderfully deceiv'd ? for if the bishops did not succeed by the apostles own appointment , they must be intruders and usurpers of the apostolical function ; and can we imagine the church of god would have so universally consented to it ? besides , the apostles did not die all at once ; but there were successors in several of the apostolical churches , while some of the apostles were living : can we again imagine , those would not have vindicated the right of their own order , and declared to the church , that this office was peculiar to themselves ? the change of the name from apostles to bishops , would not have been sufficient excuse for them ; for the presumption had been as great in the exercise of the power without the name . so that i can see no medium , but that either the primitive bishops did succeed the apostles by their own appointment and approbation , ( which irenaeus expresly affirms , qui ab apostolis ipsis instituti sunt episcopi in ecclesiis ) or else those who governed the apostolical churches after them , out-went diotrephes himself ; for he only rejected those whom the apostles sent ; but these assumed to themselves the exercise of an apostolical authority over the churches planted and setled by them . but to let us see how far the apostles were from thinking that this part of their office was peculiar to themselves , we find them in their own time , as they saw occasion , to appoint others to take care of the government of the churches , within such bounds as they thought fit . thus timothy was appointed by st. paul at ephesus , to examine the qualifications of such as were to be ordained ; and not to lay hands suddenly on any ; to receive accusations , if there were cause , even against elders ; to proceed judicially before two or three witnesses : and if there were reason , to give them a publick rebuke . and that this ought not to be thought a slight matter , he presently adds , i charge thee before god , and the lord iesus christ , and the elect angels , that thou observe these things , without preferring one before another , doing nothing by partiality . here is a very strict and severe charge for the impartial exercise of discipline in the church upon offenders . and although in the epistle to titus , he be only in general required to set in order the things that are wanting , and to ordain elders in every city , as he had appointed him ; yet we are not to suppose , that this power extended not to a iurisdiction over them when he had ordained them . for if any of those whom he ordained ( as believing them qualified according to the apostles rules ) should afterwards demean themselves otherwise , and be self-willed , froward , given to wine , brawlers , covetous , or any way scandalous to the church , can we believe that titus was not as well bound to correct them afterwards , as to examine them before ? and what was this power of ordination and iurisdiction , but the very same which the bishops have exercised ever since the apostles times ? but they who go about to unbishop timothy and titus , may as well unscripture the epistles that were written to them ; and make them only some particular and occasional writings , as they make timothy and titus to have been only some particular and occasional officers . but the christian church preserving these epistles , as of constant and perpetual use , did thereby suppose the same kind of office to continue , for the sake whereof those excellent epistles were written : and we have no greater assurance that these epistles were written by st. paul , than we have that there were bishops to succeed the apostles in the care and government of churches . having said thus much to clear the authority we act by , i now proceed to consider the rules by which we are to govern our selves . every bishop of this church , in the time of his consecration makes a solemn profession , among other things , that he will not only maintain and set forward , as much as lies in him , quietness , love and peace among all men ; but that he will correct and punish such as be unquiet , disobedient , and criminous within his diocese , according to such authority as he hath by god's word , and to him shall be committed by the ordinance of this realm . so that we have two rules to proceed by , viz. the word of god , and the ecclesiastical law of this realm . ( ) by the word of god ; and that requires from us , diligence , and care , and faithfulness , and impartiality , remembring the account we must give , that we may do it with ioy and not with grief . and we are not meerly required to correct and punish , but to warn and instruct , and exhort the persons under our care , to do those things which tend most to the honour of our holy religion , and the church whereof we are members . and for these ends there are some things i shall more particularly recommend to you . ( . ) that you would often consider the solemn charge that was given you , and the profession you made of your resolution to do your duty at your ordination . i find by the provincial constitution of this church , that the bishops were to have their solemn profession read over to them twice in the year , to put them in mind of their duty . and in the legatine constitutions of otho , ( h ▪ . ) the same constitution is renewed , not meerly by a legatine power , but by consent of the archbishops , and bishops of both provinces ; wherein i● is declared , that bishops ought to visi● their diocesses at fit times , correcting and reforming what was amiss , and sowing the word of life in the lords field ; and to put them the more in mind of it , they were twice in the year to have their solemn profession read to them . it seems then , that profession contained these things in it ; or else the reading that could not sti● them up to do these things . what the profession was which presbyters then made at their ordination , we have not so clear an account , but in the same council at oxford , h. . i● is strictly enjoined , that all rector● and vicars should instruct the people committed to their charge , and fee● them , pabulo verbi dei , with the food of god's word ; and it is introduced with that expression , that they might excite the parochial clergy to be more diligent in what was most proper for those times . and if they do it not , they are there called canes muti : and lyndwood bestows many other hard terms upon them , which i shall not mention ; but he saith afterward , those who do it not , are but like idols , which bear the similitude of a man , but do not the offices proper to men. nay , he goes so far as to say , that the spiritual food of god's word is as necessary to the health of the soul , as corporal food is to the health of the body . which words are taken out of a preface to a canon in the decretals de officio iud. ordinarii , inter caetera . but they serve very well to shew how much even in the dark times of popery , they were then convinced of the necessity and usefulness of preaching . these constitutions were slighted so much , that in edw. . the office of preaching was sunk so low , that in a * provincial constitution at that time , great complaint is made of the ignorance and stupidity of the parochial clergy , that they rather made the people worse than better . but at that time the preaching friars had got that work into their hands by particular priviledges , where it is well observed , that they did not go to places which most needed their help , but to cities and corporations , where they found most incouragement . but what remedy was found by this provincial council ? truly , every parochial priest four times a year was bound to read an explication of the creed , ten commandments , the two precepts of charity , the seven works of mercy , the seven deadly sins , the seven principal vertues , and the seven sacraments . this was renewed in the province of york , ( which had distinct provincial constitutions ) in the time of edw. . and here was all they were bound to by these constitutions . but when wickliff and his followers had awakened the people so far , that there was no satisfying them without preaching , then a new provincial constitution was made under arundel , archbishop of canterbury ; and the former constitution was restrained to parochial priests who officiated as curates ; but several others were authorized to preach ; as ( . ) the mendicant friars were said to be authorized iure communi , or rather privilegio speciali , ( but therefore lyndwood saith , it is said to be iure communi , because that privilege is recorded in the text of the canon law ) these were not only allowed to preach in their own churches , but in plateis publicis , saith lyndwood , out of the canon law ( wherein those words were expressed ) and at any hour , unless it were the time of preaching in other churches ; but other orders , as augustinians and carmelites , had no such general license . those preaching friars were a sort of licensed preachers at that time , who had no cures of souls ; but they were then accounted a kind of pastors . for io. de athon . distinguisheth two sorts of pastors ; those who had ecclesiastical offices , and those who had none , but were such only verbo & exemplo ; but they gave very great disturbance to the clergy , as the pope himself confesses in the canon law. ( . ) legal incumbents authorized to preach in their own parishes iure scripto . all persons who had cures of souls , and legal titles , were said to be missi à iure ad locum & populum curae suae , and therefore might preach to their own people without a special license ; but if any one preached in other parts of the diocess , or were a stranger in it , then he was to be examined by the diocesan , and if he were found tam moribus quam scientia idoneus , he might send him to preach to one or more parishes , as he thought meet ; and he was to shew his license to the incumbent of the place , before he was to be permitted to preach , under the episcopal seal . and thus , as far as i can find , the matter stood as to preaching , before the reformation . after it , when the office of ordination was reviewed and brought nearer to the primitive form ; and instead of delivering the chalice and patten , with these words , accipe potestatem offerre deo sacrificium , &c. the bishop delivered the bible with these words , take thou authority to preach the word of god , and to minister the holy sacraments in the congregation , &c. the priests exhortation was made agreeable thereto , wherein he exhorts the persons in the name of our lord jesus christ , to consider the weight and importance of the office and charge they are called to ; not barely to instruct those who are already of christ's flock , but to endeavour the salvation of those who are in the midst of this naughty world. and therefore he perswades and charges them from a due regard to christ , who suffered for his sheep , and to the church of christ , which is so dear to him , to omit no labor , care or diligence in instructing and reforming those who are committed to their charge . and the better to enable them to perform these things , there are some duties especially recommended to them , viz. prayer , and study of the holy scriptures , according to which they are to instruct others , and to order their own lives , and of those who belong to them . and that they might the better attend so great a work , they are required to forsake and set aside ( as much as they may ) all worldly cares and studies , and apply themselves wholly to this one thing , that they may save themselves and them that hear them . after which follows the solemn profession , wherein they undertake to do these things . this is that , my brethren , which i earnestly desire of you , that you would often consider . you are not at liberty now , whether you will do these things or not ; for you are under a most solemn engagement to it . you have put your hands to the plough , and it is too late to think of looking back ; and you all know the husbandman's work is laborious and painful , and continually returning . it is possible after all his pains , the harvest may not answer his expectation ; but yet if he neither plows nor sows , he can expect no return ; if he be idle and careless , and puts off the main of his work to others , can he reasonably look for the same success ? believe it , all our pains are little enough to awake the sleepy and secure sinners , to instruct the ignorant , to reclaim the vitious , to rebuke the profane , to convince the erroneous , to satisfie the doubtful , to confirm the wavering , to recover the lapsed ; and to be useful to all , according to their several circumstances and conditions . it is not to preach a sermon or two in a weeks time to your parishioners , that is the main of your duty ; that is no such difficult task , if men apply their minds as they ought to do to divine matters , and do not spend their retirements in useless studies ; but the great difficulty lies in watching over your flock , i. e. knowing their condition , and applying your selves uitably to them . he that is a stranger to his flock , and only visits them now and then , can never be said to watch over it ; he may watch over the fleeces , but he understands little of the state of his flock , viz. of the distempers they are under , and the remedies proper for them . the casuists say , that the reason why there is no command for personal residence in scripture , is , because the nature of the duty requires it ; for if a person be required to do such things which cannot be done without it , residence is implied . as a pilot to a ship , needs no command to be in his ship ; for how can he do the office of a pilot out of it ? let none think to excuse themselves by saying , that our church only takes them for curates , and that the bishops have the pastoral charge ; for by our old provincial constitutions ( which are still in force so far as they are not repugnant to the law of the land ) even those who have the smallest cures are called pastors ; and lyndwood there notes , that parochialis sacerdos dicitur pastor ; and that not meerly by way of allusion , but in respect of the care of souls . but we need not go so far back . for what is it they are admitted to ? is it not ad curam animarum ? did not they promise in their ordination , to teach the people committed to their care and charge ? the casuists distinguish a threefold cure of souls . . in foro interiori tantum , and this they say is the parochial cure. . in foro exteriori tantum , where there is authority to perform ministerial acts , as to suspend , excommunicate , absolve , ( sine pastorali curâ : ) and this archdeacons have by virtue of their office. . in utroque simul , where there is a special care , together with jurisdiction : this is the bishops . and every one of these , say they , secundum commune ius canonicum , is obliged to residence , i. e. by the common law ecclesiastical ; of which more afterwards . the obligation is to perpetual residence , but as it is in other positive duties , there may other duties intervene , which may take away the present force of it ; as care of health , necessary business , publick service of the king or church , &c. but then we are to observe that no dispensation can justifie a man in point of conscience , unless there be a sufficient cause ; and no custom can be sufficient against the natural equity of the case , whereby every one is bound from the nature of the office he hath undertaken . i confess the case in reason is different , where there is a sufficient provision by another fit person , and approved by those who are to take care that places be well supplied , and where there is not ; but yet , this doth not take off the force of the personal obligation , arising from undertaking the cure themselves , which the ecclesiastical law understands to be , not meerly by promise , but cum effectu , as the canonists speak ; which implies personal residence . not that they are never to be away ; non sic amarè intelligi debet , ut nunquam inde recedat , saith lyndwood ; but these words are to be understood civili modo , as he expresses it , i. e. not without great reason . there must not be , saith he , callida interpretatio , sed talis ut cessent fraudes negligentiae , i. e. there must be no art used to evade the law , nor any gross neglect of it . it 's true , the canonists have distinguished between rectories and vicarages , as to personal residence ; but we are to consider these things . . the canon law strictly obliges every one that hath a parochial cure to perpetual residence , and excepts only two cases , when the living is annexed to a prebend or dignity ; and then he who hath it , is to have a perpetual vicar instituted , with a sufficient maintenance . . after this liberty obtained for dignified persons to have vicars endowed in their places , the point of residence was strictly enjoined to them : and we find in the provincial constitutions a difference made between personatus and vicaria ; but this was still meant of a vicarage endowed . this was in the time of stephen langton , archbishop of canterbury ; and in another constitution he required an oath of personal residence from all such vicars , altho' the place were not above the value of five marks ; which , as appears by lyndwood elsewhere , was then sufficient for maintenance and hospitality . and to cover the shameful dispensations that were commonly granted to the higher clergy , under pretence of the papal power , the poor vicars by a constitution of otho , were bound to take a strict oath of continual residence ; and without it their institution was declared to be null . but even in that case the gloss there saith , that they may be some time absent for the benefit of the church or state ; but not for their own particular advantage . . the obligation in point of conscience remains the same , but dispensing with laws may take away the penalty of non-residence in some cases . ioh. de athon . canon of lincoln , who wrote the glosses on the legatine constitutions , doth not deny , but that rectors are as well bound to residence as vicars ; but these are more strictly tied by their oath ; and because a vicar cannot appoint a vicar , but a parson may . and altho' that name among some be used as a term of reproach , yet in former ages personatus and dignitas were the same thing ; and so used here in england in the time of henry ii. but afterwards it came to be applied to him that had the possession of a parochial benefice in his own immediate right ; and was therefore bound to take care of it . for the obligation must in reason be supposed to go along with the advantage ; however local statutes may have taken off the penalty . ii. when you have thus considered the obligation which lies upon you , to take care of your flock , let me in the next place recommend to you a plain , useful , and practical way of preaching among them . i mean such as is most likely to do good upon them ( which certainly ought to be the just measure of preaching . ) i do not mean therefore a loose and careless way of talking in the pulpit , which will neither profit you , nor those that hear you . he that once gets an ill habit of speaking extempore , will be tempted to continue it by the easiness of it to himself , and the plausibleness of it to less judicious people . there is on the other side , a closeness and strength of reasoning , which is too elaborate for common understandings ; and there is an affected fineness of expression which by no means becomes the pulpit : but it seems to be like stroaking the consciences of people by feathers dipt in oil. and there is a way of putting scripture-phrases together without the sense of them , which those are the most apt to admire , who understand them least : but for those who have not improved their minds by education , the plainest way is certainly the best and hardest , provided , it be not flat , and dry , and incoherent , or desultory , going from one thing to another , without pursuing any particular point home to practice , and applying it to the consciences of the hearers . and give me leave to tell you , that meer general discourses have commonly little effect on the peoples minds ; if any thing moves them , it is particular application as to such things which their consciences are concerned in . and here i must recommend to you the pursuing the design of his majesties letter , which hath been some time since communicated to you ; by it you are required to preach at some times on those particular vices which you observe to be most prevalent in the places you relate to , such as drunkenness , whoredom , swearing , profaning the lord's day , &c. if ever we hope to reform them , you must throughly convince them , that what they do is displeasing to god. and there are two sorts of men you are to deal with , . profane scoffers at religion . these seldom trouble you ; but if any good be to be done upon them , it is by plain and evident proofs of the good and evil of moral actions . for , as long as they think them indifferent , they will never regard what you say , as to the rewards or punishments of them . . stupid and senseless people , whose minds are wholly sunk into the affairs of the world , buying and selling and getting gain . it is a very hard thing to get a thought into them above these matters . and whatever you talk of meer religion , and another life , is like metaphysicks to them ; they understand you not , and take no care to do it : but if you can convince them , that they live in the practice of great sins , which they shall certainly suffer for , if they do not repent , they may possibly be awakened this way ; if not , nothing but immediate grace can work upon them ; which must work on the will , whatever becomes of the understanding . iii. after preaching , let me intreat you to look after catechizing and instructing the youth of your parishes . he that would reform the world to purpose , must begin with the youth ; and train them up betimes , in the ways of religion and virtue . there is far less probability of prevailing on those who have accustomed themselves to vicious habits , and are hardened in their wickedness . it seems strange to some , that considering the shortness of human life , mankind should be so long before they come to maturity ; the best account i know of it , is , that there is so much longer time for the care of their education , to instill the principles of virtue and religion into them , thereby to soften the fierceness , to direct the weakness , to govern the inclinations of mankind . it is truly a sad consideration , that christian parents are so little sensible of their duties , as to the education of their children ; when those who have had only natural reason to direct them , have laid so much weight upon it . without it , plato saith , that mankind grew the most unruly of all creatures . aristotle , that as by nature they are capable of being the best , so being neglected , they become the worst of animals , i. e. when they are brought up without virtue . education and virtue , saith he , is a great thing , yea , it is all in all , and without it they will be much worse than beasts . the main care of the education of children must lie upon parents ; but yet ministers ought not only to put them in mind of their duty , but to assist them all they can , and by publick catechizing , frequently to instruct both those who have not learned , and those who are ashamed to learn any other way . and you must use the best means you can to bring them into an esteem of it ; which is by letting them see , that you do it , not meerly because you are required to do it , but because it is a thing so useful and beneficial to them , and to their children . there is a great deal of difference between peoples being able to talk over a set of phrases , about religious matters , and understanding the true grounds of religion ; which are easiest learned , and understood , and remembred in the short catechetical way . but i am truly sorry to hear , that where the clergy are willing to take pains this way , the people are unwilling to send their children . they would not be unwilling to hear them instructed , as early as might be , in the way to get an estate , but would be very thankful to those who would do them such a kindness ; and therefore it is really a contempt of god and religion , and another world , which makes them so backward to have their children taught the way to it . and methinks those who have any zeal for the reformation , should love and pursue that which came into request with it . indeed the church of rome it self hath been made so sensible of the necessity of it , that even the council of trent doth not only require catechizing children , but the bishops to proceed with ecclesiastical censures against those who neglect it . but in the old provincial constitutions i can find but one injunction about catechizing ; and that is when the priest doubts whether the children were baptized or not ; and if they be born eight days before easter and whitsontide , they are not to be baptized till those days , and in the mean time they are to receive catechism . what is this receiving catechism by children , before they are eight days old ? it is well exorcism is joyned with it ; and so we are to understand by it the interrogatories in baptism : and lyndwood saith , the catechism is not only required for instruction in faith , but propter sponsionem , when the godfather answers , de fidei observantiâ . it is true , the canon law requires in adult persons catechizing before baptism ; but i find nothing of the catechizing children after it ; and no wonder , since lyndwood saith , the laity are bound to no more than to believe as the church believes ; nor the clergy neither , unless they can bear the charges of studying , and have masters to instruct them . this was good doctrine , when the design was to keep people in ignorance . for learning is an irreconcilable enemy to the fundamental policy of the roman church ; and it was that which brought in the reformation , since which a just care hath still been required for the instruction of youth ; and the fifty ninth canon of our church is very strict in it , which i desire you often to consider with the first rubrick after the catechism , and to act accordingly . iv. after catechizing , i recommend to you the due care of bringing the children of your parishes to confirmation . which would be of excellent use in the church , if the several ministers would take that pains about it , which they ought to do . remember that you are required to bring or send in writing , with your names subscribed , the names of all such persons in your parish , as you shall think fit to be presented to the bishop to be confirmed . if you take no care about it , and suffer them to come unprepared for so great , so solemn a thing , as renewing the promise and vow made in baptism , can you think your selves free from any guilt in it ? in the church of rome indeed great care was taken to hasten confirmation of children all they could : post baptismum quam citius poterint , as it is in our constitution provincial ; in another synodical , the parochial priests are charged to tell their parishioners , that they ought to get their children confirmed as soon as they can . in a synod at worcester , under walter de cantilupo , in the time of henry iii. the sacrament of confirmation is declared necessary for strength against the power of darkness ; and therefore it was called sacramentum pugnantium : and no wonder then that the parochial priests should be called upon so earnestly to bring the children to confirmation ; and the parents were to be forbidden to enter into the church , if they neglected it for a year after the birth of the child , if they had opportunity . the synod of exeter allowed two years , and then if they were not confirmed , the parents were to fast every friday , with bread and water , till it were done . and to the same purpose , the synod of winchester in the time of edw. i. in the constitutions of richard , bishop of sarum , two years were allowed , but that time was afterwards thought too long ; and then the priest as well as the parents was to be suspended from entrance into the church . but what preparation was required ? none that i can find : but great care is taken about the fillets to bind their heads to receive the unction , and the taking them off at the font , and burning them , lest they should be used for witchcraft , as lyndwood informs us . but we have no such customs , nor any ▪ of the reformed churches : we depend not upon the opus operatum , but suppose a due and serious preparation of mind necessary , and a solemn performance of it . i hope , by god's assistance , to be able , in time , to bring the performance of this office into a better method ; in the mean time i shall not fail doing my duty ; have you a care you do not fail in yours . v. as to the publick offices of the church , i do not only recommend to you a due care of the diligent , but of the devout performance of them . i have often wondred how a fixed and stated liturgy for general use , should become a matter of scruple and dispute among any in a christian church , unless there be something in christianity which makes it unlawful to pray together for things which we all understand beforehand to be the subject of our prayers . if our common necessities and duties are the same ; if we have the same blessings to pray , and to thank god for in our solemn devotions , why should any think it unlawful or unfitting to use the same expressions ? is god pleased with the change of our words and phrases ? can we imagine the holy spirit is given to dictate new expressions in prayers ? then they must pray by immediate inspiration ( which i think they will not pretend to , lest all the mistakes and incongruities of such prayers be imputed to the holy ghost ) but if not , then they are left to their own conceptions , and the spirits assistance is only in the exciting the affections and motions of the soul towards the things prayed for ; and if this be allowed , it is impossible to give a reason why the spirit of god may not as well excite those inward desires , when the words are the same as when they are different . and we are certain , that from the apostles times downwards , no one church or society of christians can be produced , who held it unlawful to pray by a set-form . on the other side , we have very early proofs of some common forms of prayer , which were generally used in the christian churches , and were the foundations of those ancient liturgies , which , by degrees were much enlarged . and the interpolations of later times , do no more overthrow the antiquity of the ground-work of them , than the large additions to a building , do prove there was no house before . it is an easie matter to say , that such liturgies could not be st. iames's or st. mark 's , because of such errors and mistakes , and interpolations of things and phrases of later times ; but what then ? is this an argument there were no ancient liturgies in the churches of ierusalem and alexandria , when so long since , as in origen's time we find an entire collect produced by him out of the alexandrian liturgy ? and the like may be shewed as to other churches , which by degrees came to have their liturgies much enlarged by the devout prayers of some extraordinary men , such as s. basil and s. chrysostom in the eastern churches . but my design is not to vindicate our use of an excellent liturgy , but to put you upon the using it in such manner , as may most recommend it to the people . i mean with that gravity , seriousness , attention , and devotion , which becomes so solemn a duty as prayer to god is . it will give too just a cause of prejudice to our prayers , if the people observe you to be careless and negligent about them ; or to run them over with so great haste , as if you minded nothing so much as to get to the end of them . if you mind them so little your selves , they will think themselves excused , if they mind them less . i could heartily wish , that in greater places , especially in such towns where there are people more at liberty , the constant morning and evening prayers were duly and devoutly read ; as it is already done with good success in london , and some other cities . by this means religion will gain ground , when the publick offices are daily performed ; and the people will be more acquainted with scripture , in hearing the lessons , and have a better esteem of the prayers , when they become their daily service , which they offer up to god as their morning and evening sacrifice ; and the design of our church will be best answered , which appoints the order for morning and evening prayer daily to be said , and used throughout the year . vi. as to the dissenters from the church ; the present circumstances of our affairs require a more than ordinary prudence in your behaviour towards them . it is to no purpose to provoke or exasperate them , since they will be but so much more your enemies for it ; and if you seem to court them too much , they will interpret your kindness to be a liking their way better than your own ; so that were it not for some worldly interest , you would be just what they are ; which is in effect to say , you would be men of conscience , if ye had a little more honesty . for they can never think those honest men , who comply with things against their consciences , only for their temporal advantage ; but they may like them as men of a party , who under some specious colours , promote their interest . for my own part , as i do sincerely value and esteem the church of england ( and i hope ever shall ) so i am not against such a due temper towards them , as is consistent with the preserving the constitution of our church . but if any think , under a pretence of liberty , to undermine and destroy it , we have reason to take the best care we can , in order to its preservation . i do not mean by opposing laws , or affronting authority , but by countermining them in the best way , i.e. by out-doing them in those things which make them most popular , if they are consistent with integrity and a good conscience . if they gain upon the people by an appearance of more than ordinary zeal for the good of souls , i would have you to go beyond them in a true and hearty concernment for them ; not in irregular heats and passions , but in the meekness of wisdom , in a calm and sedate temper ; in doing good even to them who most despitefully reproach you , and withdraw themselves and the people from you . if they get an interest among them by industry , and going from place to place , and family to family ; i hope you will think it your duty to converse more freely and familiarly with your own people . be not strangers , and you will make them friends . let them see by your particular application to them , that you do not despise them . for men love to value those who seem to value them ; and if you once slight them , you run the hazard of making them your enemies . it is some trial of a christians patience , as well as humility , to condescend to the weaknesses of others ; but where it is our duty , we must do it , and that chearfully , in order to the best end , viz. doing the more good upon them . and all condescension and kindness for such an end , is true wisdom as well as humility . i am afraid distance and too great stiffness of behaviour towards them , have made some more our enemies than they would have been . i hope they are now convinced , that the persecution which they complained lately so much of , was carried on by other men , and for other designs than they would then seem to believe . but that persecution was then a popular argument for them ; for the complaining side hath always the most pity . but now that is taken off , you may deal with them on more equal terms . now there is nothing to affright them , and we think we have reason enough on our side to perswade them . the case of separation stands just as it did in point of conscience , which is not now one jot more reasonable or just than it was before . some think severity makes men consider ; but i am afraid it heats them too much , and makes them too violent and refractary . you have more reason to fear now , what the interest of a party will do , than any strength of argument . how very few among them understand any reason at all for their separation ! but education , prejudice , authority of their teachers sway them ; remove these , and you convince them . and in order thereto , acquaint your selves with them , endeavour to oblige them , let them see you have no other design upon them , but to do them good ; if any thing will gain upon them , this will. but if after all , they grow more headstrong and insolent by the indulgence which the law gives them ; then observe , whether they observe those conditions on which the law gives it to them . for these are known rules in law , that he forfeits his privilege who goes beyond the bounds of it ; that no privileges are to be extended beyond the bounds which the laws give them ; for they ought to be observed as they are given . i leave it to be considered , whether all such who do not observe the conditions of the indulgence , be not as liable to the law , as if they had none . but there is a very profane abuse of this liberty among some , as tho' it were an indulgence not to serve god at all . such as these , as they were never intended by the law , so they ought to enjoy no benefit by it : for this were to countenance profaneness and irreligion , which i am afraid , will grow too much upon us , unless some effectual care be taken to suppress it . vii . there is another duty incumbent upon you , which i must particularly recommend to your care , and that is , of visiting the sick. i do not mean barely to perform the office prescribed , which is of very good use , and ought not to be neglected ; but a particular application of your selves to the state and condition of the persons you visit . it is no hard matter to run over some prayers , and so take leave ; but this doth not come up to the design of our church in that office : for , after the general exhoratation and profession of the christian faith , our church requires , that the sick person be moved to make special confession of his sins , if he feel his conscience troubled with any weighty matter ; and then if the sick person humbly and heartily desires it , he is to be absolved after this manner , our lord iesus christ , who hath left power in his church to absolve all sinners who truly repent and believe in him , &c. where the power of absolution is grounded upon the supposition of true faith and repentance ; and therefore when it is said afterwards , and by his authority committed to me , i absolve thee from the same , &c. it must proceed on the same supposition . for the church cannot absolve when god doth not . so that all the real comfort of the absolution depends upon the satisfaction of the person's mind , as to the sincerity of his repentance and faith in christ. now here lies the great difficulty of this office ; how to give your selves and the wounded conscience satisfaction , as to the sincerity of those acts ; i do not mean as to the sincerity of his present thoughts , but as to the acceptableness of his faith and repentance with god , in order to remission of sins . but what if you find the persons so ignorant , as not to understand what faith and repentance mean ? what if they have led such careless and secure lives in this world , as hardly ever to have had one serious thought of another ? is nothing to be done but to come and pray by them , and so dismiss them into their eternal state ? is this all the good you can , or are bound to do them ? i confess it is a very uncomfortable thing to tell men how they are to begin to live , when they are liker to die than to live ( and the people generally have a strange superstitious fear of sending for the minister , while there is any hope of recovery . ) but at last you are sent for ; and what a melancholy work are you then to go about ? you are , it may be , to make a man sensible of his sins , who never before considered what they were , or against whom they were committed , or what eternal misery he deserves by committing them . but i will suppose the best i can in this case , viz. that by your warm and serious discourse , you throughly awaken the conscience of a long and habitual sinner ; what are you then to do ? will you presently apply all the promises of grace and salvation to one whose conscience is awakened only with the fears of death , and the terrors of a day of judgment ? this , i confess , is a hard case ; on the one side , we must not discourage good beginnings in any ; we must not cast an awakened sinner into despair ; we must not limit the infinite mercy of god : but on the other side , we must have a great care of incouraging presumptuous sinners to put off their repentance to the last , because then upon confession of their sins , they can so easily obtain the churches absolution , which goes no farther , than truly repenting and believing . but here is the difficulty , how we can satisfie our selves that these do truly repent and believe , who are out of a capacity of giving proof of their sincerity by amendment of life ? i do not question the sincerity of their present purposes ; but how often do we find those to come to nothing , when they recover and fall into the former temptations ? how then shall they know their own sincerity till it be tried ? how can it be tried , when they are going out of the state of trial ? the most we can do , is to encourage them to do the best they can in their present condition , and to shew as many of the fruits of true repentance as their circumstances will allow ; and with the greatest humility of mind , and most earnest supplications to implore the infinite mercy of god to their souls . but besides these , there are many cases of sick persons , which require very particular advice , and spiritual direction , which you ought to be able to give them , and it cannot be done without some good measure of skill and experience in casuistical divinity . as , how to satisfie a doubting conscience , as to its own sincerity , when so many infirmities are mixed with our best actions ? how a sinner who hath relapsed after repentance , can be satisfied of the truth of his repentance , when he doth not know , but he may farther relapse upon fresh temptations ? how he shall know what failings are consistent with the state of grace , and the hopes of heaven , and what not ? what measure of conviction and power of resistance is necessary to make sins to be wilful and presumptuous ? what the just measures of restitution are in order to true repentance , in all such injuries which are capable of it ? i might name many others , but these i only mention to shew how necessary it is for you to apply your selves to moral and casuistical divinity , and not to content your selves barely with the knowledge of what is called positive and controversial . i am afraid there are too many who think they need to look after no more than what qualifies them for the pulpit ; ( and i wish all did take sufficient care of that ) but if we would do our duty as we ought , we must inquire into , and be able to resolve cases of conscience . for the priests lips should keep this kind of knowledge ; and the people should seek the law at his mouth ; for he is the messenger of the lord of hosts , mal. . . if this held in the levitical priesthood , much more certainly under the gospel , where the rates and measures of our duties are not to be determined by levitical precepts , but by the general reason and nature of moral actions . viii . among the duties of publick worship , i must put you in mind of a frequent celebration of the lord's supper . there is generally too great a neglect of this , which is the most proper part of evangelical worship . the duties of prayers and praises , are excellent and becoming duties , as we are creatures with respect to our maker and preserver . the duty of hearing the word of god read and explained , is consequent upon our owning it to be the rule of our faith and manners ; and all who desire to understand and practise their duty , can never despise or neglect it . but that solemn act of worship wherein we do most shew our selves christians , is the celebrating the holy eucharist . for , therein we own and declare the infinite love of god in sending his son into the world to die for sinners , in order to their salvation ; and that this is not only a true saying , but worthy of all men to be credited . therein , we lift up our hearts , and give thanks to our lord god ; we joyn with angels and archangels in lauding and magnifying his glorious name . therein , we not only commemorate the death and sufferings of our lord , but are made partakers of his body and blood , after a real , but sacramental manner . therein we offer up our selves to god , to be a reasonable , holy and lively sacrifice unto him . therein we adore and glorifie the ever blessed trinity ; and humbly implore the grace and assistance of our ever blessed mediator . and what now is there in all this , which is not very agreeable to the faith , hope and charity of christians ? nay , what duty is there , which so much expresses all these together , as this doth ? nor , whereby we may more reasonably expect greater supplies of divine grace to be bestowed upon us ? what then makes so many to be so backward in this duty , which profess a zeal and forwardness in many others ? if we had that warmth and fervor of devotion , that love to christ , and to each other , which the primitive christians had , we should make it as constant a part of our publick worship , as they did ; but this is not to be expected . neither did it always continue in the primitive church , when liberty , and ease , and worldly temptations made persons grow more remiss and careless in the solemn duties of their religion . s. chrysostom takes notice in his time of the different behaviour of persons , with respect to the holy ●●charist . there were some who pretended to greater holiness and austerity of life than others , who withdrew from the common conversation of mankind , and so by degrees from joining in the acts of publick worship with them . which did unspeakable mischief to christianity ; for then the perfection of the christian life , was not supposed to consist in the active part of it , but in retirement and contemplation . as tho' our highest imitation of christ lay in following him into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil ; and not in walking as he walked , who frequented the synagogues , and went about doing good . but this way of retirement happening to be admired by some great men , the publick worship came to be in less esteem ; and others upon reasons of a different nature , withdrew themselves from such acts of devotion as required a stricter attendance , and a more prepared temper of mind . and there were some who did abstain , because they were not so well satisfied with themselves as to their own preparations ; and such as these s. chrysostom seems to favour , rather than such who came often without due care , as to the whole course of their lives ; only out of custom , or out of regard to the orders of the church . from hence many thought it better to forbear , as long as they did it not out of contempt . and so by degrees the people were content to look on it as a sacrifice for them to be performed by others , rather than as an office , wherein they were to bear a part themselves ; at least , they thought once or thrice a year sufficient for them . and to this , as appears by our old provincial constitutions , they were forced by severe canons . when the reformation began , this disuse of this holy sacrament was looked on , by the chief reformers , as a great abuse and corruption crept into the church , which ought by all means to be reformed ; and the frequent celebration of it set up in the reformed churches . but unreasonable scruples in some , and misapprehensions in others , and a general coldness and indifference , as to matters of religion , have hitherto hindered the reviving this primitive part of devotion among us . i do not go about to determine the frequency in your parishes , which the scripture doth not as to the christian church , but supposes it to be often done ; but i may require you to take care that christ's institution be observed among you ; and that with your utmost care , both as to the decency and purity of it . the last thing i recommend to you all , is , to have a great care of your conversations . i do not speak it out of a distrust of you ; i hope you do it already : and your case will be so much worse , if you do it not , because you very well know how much you ought to do it . for the honour of god and religion , and the success of your ministry , as well as your own salvation , depend very much upon it . lead your flock by your example , as well as by your doctrine , and then you may much better hope that they will follow you ; for the people are naturally spies upon their ministers , and if they observe them to mind nothing but the world all the week , they will not believe them in earnest , when on the lords days they perswade them against it . and it takes off the weight of all reproof of other mens faults , if those they reprove have reason to believe them guilty of the same . i do not think it enough for a preacher of righteousness merely to avoid open and scandalous sins , but he ought to be a great example to others in the most excellent virtues which adorn our profession , not only in temperance and chastity , in iustice and ordinary charity , but in a readiness to do good to all , in forgiving injuries , in loving enemies , in evenness of temper , in humility and meekness , and patience , and submission to god's will , and in frequent retirements from the world , not meerly for study , but for devotion . if by these and such things you shine as lights among your people , they will be more ready to follow your conduct ; and in probability you will not only stop their mouths , but gain their hearts . for among all the ways of advancing the credit and interest of the church of england , one of the most succesful will be the diligent labours , and the exemplary lives of the clergy in it . but if men will not regard their own , or the churches interest in this matter ; if they will break their rules in such a manner , as to dishonour god , and the church , and themselves by it ; then you are to consider the next thing i was to speak to , which is , ii. what authority is given to us for the punishing offenders in our diocesses by the ecclesiastical law of this realm . for this we are to consider , that our authority herein is not derived from any modern canons or constitutions of this church ( altho' due regard ought to be shewed to them ) but from the ancient common law ecclesiastical in this realm , which still continues in force . for as there is a common law with respect to civil rights , which depends not on the feudal constitutions , altho' in many things it be the same with them ; but upon ancient practice , and general consent of the people from age to age. so , i say , there is a common law ecclesiastical , which altho' in many things it may be the same with the canon law , which is read in the books ; yet it hath not its force from any papal or legatine constitutions , but from the acceptance and practice of it in our church . i could easily shew ( if the time would permit ) that papal and legatine constitutions were not received here , altho' directed hither ; that some provincial constitutions never obtained the force of ecclesiastical laws ; but my business is to shew what did obtain and continue still to have the force of such ecclesiastical laws among us . by the statute of h. . c. . it is declared , that such canons , constitutions , ordinances , and synodals provincial being already made , which be not contrariant nor repugnant to the laws , statutes , and customs of this realm , nor to the damage or hurt to the king's prerogative royal , shall now still be used and executed as they were afore the making of this act , &c. it 's true , a review was appointed , but such difficulties were found in it , as to the shaking the foundations of the ecclesiastical law here , that nothing was ever legally established in it ; and therefore this law is still in force . in the statute h. . c. . it is said , that this realm recognizing no superiour under god but the king , hath been , and is free from subjection to any man's laws , but only to such as have been devised , made , and observed within this realm , for the wealth of the same : or to such other , as by the sufferance of the king and his progenitors , the people of this realm have taken at their free liberty , by their own consent , to be used amongst them , and have bound themselves by long use and custom to observance of the same , not as to the observance of the laws of any foreign prince , potentate , or prelate , but as to the customs and ancient laws of this realm , originally established , as laws of the same by the said sufferance , consent , custom , and none otherwise . all that i have now to do ; is to shew what authority the bishops had over the clergy by the ancient ecclesiastical law of this realm ; and what censu●es they were liable to for some particular offences . i. by the ecclesiastical law the bishop is iudge of the fitness of any clerk presented to a benefice . this is confessed by the lord coke in these words : and the examination of the ability and sufficiency of the person presented , belongs to the bishop , who is the ecclesiastical iudge , and in the examination he is a iudge , and not a minister , and may and ought to refuse the person presented , if he be not persona idonea . but this is plain to have been the ancient ecclesiastical law of this realm , by the articul . cleri in edw. ii. time , de idoneitate personae praesentatae ad beneficium ecclesiasticum pertinet examinatio ad iudicem ecclesiasticum , & ita est hactenus usitatum , & fiat in futurum . by the provincial constitutions at oxford in the time of hen. iii. the bishop is required to admit the clerk who is presented , without opposition , within two months , dum tamen idoneus sit , if he thinks him fit . so much time is allowed , propter examinationem , saith lyndwood ; even when there is no dispute about right of patronage . the main thing he is to be examined upon , is his ability to discharge his pastoral duty , as coke calls it ; or as lyndwood saith , whether he be commendandus scientia & moribus . as to the former , the bishop may judge himself ; but as to the latter , he must take the testimonials of others ; and i heartily wish the clergy would be more careful in giving them , by looking on it as a matter of conscience , and not meerly of civility ; for otherwise it will be impossible to avoid the pestering the church with scandalous and ignorant wretches . if the bishop refuses to admit within the time ( which by the modern canons is limited to twenty eight days after the presentation delivered ) he is liable to a duplex querela in the ecclesiastical courts , and a quare impedit at common law ; and then he must certifie the reasons of his refusal . in specot's case it is said , that in hen. . , . all the iudges agreed , that the bishop is iudge in the examination , and therefore the law giveth faith and credit to his iudgment . but because great inconveniencies might otherwise happen , the general allegation is not sufficient , but he must certifie specially and directly ; and the general rule is , and it was so resolved by the judges , that all such as are sufficient causes of deprivation of an incumbent , are sufficient causes to refuse a presentee . but by the canon law * more are allowed . in the constitutions of othobon , the bishop is required particularly to enquire into the life and conversation of him that is presented ; and afterwards , that if a bishop admits another who is guilty of the same fault for which he rejected the former , his institution is declared null and void . by the canon law , if a bishop maliciously refuses to admit a fit person , he is bound to provide another benefice for him ; but our ecclesiastical law much better puts him upon the proof of the cause of his refusal . but if the bishop doth not examine him , the canonists say it is a proof sufficient that he did it malitiosé . if a bishop once rejects a man for insufficiency , he cannot afterwards accept or admit of him ; as was adjudged in the bishop of hereford's case . if a man brings a presentation to a benefice , the bishop is not barely to examine him as to life and abilities , but he must be satisfied that he is in orders . how can he be satisfied , unless the other produce them ? how can he produce them , when it may be they are lost ? what is to be done in this case ? the canon is express , that no bishop shall institute any to a benefice , who hath been ordained by any other bishop , ( for if he ordained him himself , he cannot after reject him , because the law supposes him to have examined and approved him ) except he first shew unto him his letters of orders , and bring him a sufficient testimony of his fo●mer good life and behaviour , if the bishop shall require it ; and lastly , shall appear upon due examination to be worthy of the ministry . but yet in palmes and the bishop of peterborough's case , it was adjudged , that no lapse did accrue by the clerk's not shewing his orders , for the bishop upon his not coming to him again , collated after six months . but the court agreed , that the clerk ought to make proof of his orders ; but they differed about the manner of their proof . anderson said , the bishop might give him his oath . but if a proof were necessary , and the clerk did not come to make proof , it seems to me to be a very hard judgment . ii. the bishop by the ecclesiastical law , is to visit his diocess , and to take an account of the clergy how they behave themselves in the duties of their places . by the eldest canons i can find , the bishops visitation is supposed as a thing implied in his office ; whereby he is obliged to look after the good estate of his whole diocess , and especially of the clergy in it . in the time of hubert arehbishop of canterbury , in the beginning of king iohn's time , care is taken in the canons then made , that b●shops should not be burdensom to the clergy in the number of the attendants in their visitations , which then were parochial , and the number allowed of twenty or thirty horse , was too heavy for the clergy to bear . and therefore by degrees it was thought fit to turn that charge into a certainty , which was the original of procurations . by the fourth council of toledo , the bishop was to visit his whole diocess , parochially , every year . the gloss saith , if there were occasion for it ; and that the bishop may visit as often as he sees cause ; but if he be hindered , the canon saith , he may send others ( which is the original of the arch-deacon's visitation ) to see not only the condition of the churches , but the lives of the ministers . the council of braga in the latter end of the sixth century , makes this the first canon , that all bishops should visit their diocesses by parishes , and there should first examine the clergy , and then the people ; and in another canon he was required to receive only his cathedraticum , i. e. a certain sum in lieu of entertainment ; which came to be setled by prescription . the council of cavailon in france , a. d. . fixed no sum , but desired the bishops to be no burdens to the clergy in their parochial visitations . lyndwood saith , the ancient procuration here , was a day and nights entertainment ; which after came to be a customary payment : but however it was paid , it is an evident proof of the right of the bishops visitations by the ancient ecclesiastical law ; and by such a custom as is allowable by the rules of our common law. iii. there are some faults which make the clergy liable to deprivation by virtue of the ecclesiastical law , which was here received . i shall name only some of them , and conclude ; these being sufficient for my present purpose . i. excessive drinking . all drinking ( ad potus aequales ) was absolutely forbidden to clergymen , on pain of suspension after admonition ; not only by a synodical , but by a provincial constitution under edmund , archbishop of canterbury . the canon law saith in that case , ab officio vel beneficio suspendatur : but our constitution is more severe , à beneficio & officio . the council of oxford not only strictly forbids all clergymen whatever tends to gluttony and drunkenness ; but it requires the bishops to proceed strictly against those who are guilty , according to the form of the general council , i. e. the lateran , . viz. by admonition first , and then suspension . lyndwood complains , that this was not so much looked after as it should be , because it brought no profit ; i hope that reason will not hold among those who pretend to reformation ; which will be very defective , if it extend not to our lives as well as our doctrines : for there can be no greater reproach than to see those loose and dissolute in their conversations , who think it their honour to be ministers of a reformed church . it was a stinging reflection upon our church by the archbishop of spalato , ( who was no very strict man himself ) that he saw nothing reformed among us but our doctrines . i hope there was more of satyr than of truth in it ; for i do not question , but there were many then ( as there are now ) of exemplary lives , and unblameable conversations ; but if there be any others , it will be the more shame not to proceed against them ; since even before the reformation , the canons were so strict and severe in this matter . in the council at westminster in henry ii. time , under richard , archbishop of canterbury , all clergymen are forbidden going into taverns to eat or drink , unless upon travelling ; and the sanction of this canon is , aut cesset , aut deponatur . the same was forbidden in the council at york , in the time of richard i. in the council at london under hubert , in the time of king iohn . and since the reformation the same canon is renewed , that no ecclesiastical persons shall at any time , other than for their honest necessities , resort to any taverns or ale-houses . and there have been instances of the severity of our ecclesiastical censures against drunkenness in clergymen . in iac. parker was deprived of his benefice for drunkenness , and moved for a prohibition , but it was denied him . in iac. another was deprived for the same fault ; and the judges at common law allowed the sentence to be good . no doubt there are other instances , but we had not known of these , if they had not been preserved in books of reports . ii. incontinency . lyndwood saith , those who are proved to be guilty of it , are ipso iure privati ; but he thinks a declaratory sentence of the ecclesiastical judges necessary for the execution of it . since the reformation , we have instances of deprivation for adultery in our law books . one eliz. another eliz. a third eliz. these are enough to shew that the ecclesiastical law is allowed by the judges of common law , to continue in sufficient force for deprivation in this case . iii. simony . which is the name given by the ecclesiastical law , to all contracts for gain in the disposing or obtaining any ecclesiastical promotion or ministry . it is true , these do not come up to the very sin of simon magus , which related to the immediate gifts of the holy ghost ; but because the whole ministerial office in all the parts of it ( especially the cure of souls ) is of a spiritual nature ; and all bargains are so repugnant to the design of it , therefore the ecclesiastical law hath fixed that detestable name upon it : for , all contractus non gratuiti in these things , savour of turpe lucrum , and tend to bring in turpe commercium into the church ; which would really overturn the whole design of that ministry , which was designed for the salvation of souls . and therefore it was necessary , that when persons had received ( by the favour of temporal princes and other benefactors , who were founders of churches ) such endowments as might encourage them in their function , that severe laws should be made against any such sordid and mischievous contracts . and such there were here in england long before the excellent stat. of eliz. c. . although it seems the force of them was so much worn out , as to make that statute necessary for avoiding of simony ; which is there explained to be corruption in bestowing or getting possession of promotions ecclesiastical . in a council at london under lanfranc , in the conqueror's time , simony was forbidden , under the name of buying and selling of orders . and it could be nothing else before the churches revenue was setled : but in the time of henry i. ecclesiastical benefices were forbidden to be bought or sold , and it was deprivation then to any clergyman to be convicted of it ; and a layman was to be out-lawed , and excommunicated , and deprived of his right of patronage . and this was done by a provincial synod of that time . in the reign of henry ii. it was decreed , that if any person received any money for a presentation , he was to be for ever deprived of the patronage of that church ; and this was not meerly a provincial constitution , but two kings were present ( hen. ii. and his son ) and added their authority to it . this was not depriving a man of his free-hold by a canon , as a learned gentleman calls it ; for here was the greatest authority , temporal as well as ecclesiastical added to it . but we are told , these canons were of as little effect as that of othobon , which made all simoniacal contracts void ; but some of the most judicious lawyers have held , that simony being contractus ex turpi causâ , is void between parties . all that i aim at is to shew , that by our old ecclesiastical law , simoniacus incurred a deprivation and disability before the stat. . eliz. and therein i have the opinion of a very learned judge concurring with me . iv. dilapidations . by which the ecclesiastical law understands any considerable impairing the edifices , woods , and revenues belonging to ecclesiastical persons , by virtue of their places . for it is the greatest interest and concernment of the church to have things preserved for the good of successors ; and it is a part of common iustice and honesty so to do . and the lord coke positively affirms , that dilapidation is a good cause of deprivation . and it was so resolved by the judges in the kings bench , iac. not by virtue of any new law or statute , but by the old ecclesiastical law. for which coke refers to the year-books , which not only shew what the ecclesiastical law then was , but that it was allowed by the common law of england ; and we are told , that is never given to change ; but it may be forced to it by a new law , which cannot be pretended in this case . and by the old constitutions here received , the bishops are required to put the clergy in mind of keeping their houses in sufficient reparations , and if they do it not within two months , the bishop is to take care it be done out of the profits of the benefice . by the injunctions of edw. vi. and queen elizabeth , all persons having ecclesiastical benefices , are required to set apart the fifth of their revenue to repair their houses ; and afterwards to maintain them in good condition . v. pluralities . by the ecclesiastical law , which was here received , the actual receiving institution into a second benefice made the first void ipso iure ; and if he sought to keep both above a month , the second was void too . lyndwood observes , that the ecclesiastical law had varied in this matter . and it proceeded by these steps , ( which are more than lyndwood mentions . ) i. it was absolutely forbidden to have two parishes , if there were more than ten inhabitants in them , because no man could do his duty in both places . and if any bishop neglected the execution of it , he was to be excommunicated for two months , and to be restored only upon promise to see this canon executed . ii. the rule was allowed to hold , as to cities , but an exception was made as to small and remote places , where there was a greater scarcity of persons to supply them . iii. if a man had two benefices , it was left to his choice , which he would have : but he could not hold both . this kind of option was allowed by the ecclesiastical law then in force . iv. that if he takes a second benefice , that institution is void , by the third council of lateran , under alexander . v. that by taking a second , the first is void ; which is the famous canon of the fourth lateran council . vi. that if he were not contented with the last , but endeavour to keep both , he should be deprived of both . and this was the ecclesiastical law as it was declared in our provincial constitutions . but the general practice was to avoid the former , according to the lateran council . these were very severe canons , but that one clause of the pope's dispensing power , made them to signifie little , unless it were to advance his power and revenue . for when the dispensing power came to be owned , the law had very little force ; especially as to the consciences of men. for if it were a law of god , how could any man dispense with it ? unless it were as apparent that he had given a power in some cases to dispense , as that he had made the law. those casuists are very hard put to it , who make residence iure divino , and yet say the pope may dispense with it ; which at last comes only to this , that the pope can authoritatively declare the sufficiency of the cause : so that the whole matter depends upon the cause ; whether there can be any sufficient to excuse from personal residence . it is agreed on all hands , that the habitual neglect of a charge we have taken upon our selves , is an evil thing , and that it is so to heap up preferments meerly for riches , or luxury , or ambition ; but the main question in point of conscience is , what is a sufficient cause to justifie any man's breaking so reasonable and just a rule as that of residence is . it cannot be denied , that the eldest canons of the church were so strict and severe , that they made it unlawful for any man to go from that church in which he first received orders ; as well as to take another benefice in it : and so for any bishop to be translated from that place he was first consecrated to ; as well as to hold another with it . but the good of the church being the main foundation of all the rules of it ; when that might be better promoted by a translation , it was by a tacit consent looked on , as no unjust violation of its rules . the question then is , whether the churches benefit may not in some cases make the canons against non-residence as dispensible , as those against translations ? and the resolution of it doth not depend upon the voiding the particular obligation of the incumbent to his cure ; but upon some more general reason with respect to the state of the church ; as being imployed in the service of it , which requires a persons having ( not a bare competency for subsistence , but ) a sufficiency to provide necessaries for such service : for those seem to have very little regard to the flourishing condition of a church , who would confine the sufficiency of a subsistence , meerly to the necessaries of life . but it seems to be reasonable , that clergymen should have incouragement sufficient , not only to keep them above contempt , but in some respect agreeable to the more ample provision of other orders of men. and by god's own appointment the tribe of levi did not fall short of any of the rest , if it did not very much exceed the proportion of others . we do not pretend to the privileges they had , only we observe from thence , that god himself did appoint a plentiful subsistence for those who attended upon his service . and i do not know what there is levitical or ceremonial in that . i am sure the duties of the clergy now require a greater freedom of mind from the anxious cares of the world , than the imployments of the priests and levites under the law. but we need not go so far back ; if the church enjoyed all her revenues as entirely , as when the severe canons against pluralities were made , there would not be such a plea for them , as there is too much cause for in some places , from the want of a competent subsistence . but since that time , the abundance of appropriations ( since turned into lay-fees ) hath extreamly lessened the churches revenues , and have left us a great number of poor vicarages , and arbitrary cures , which would hardly have afforded a maintenance for the nethinims under the law , who were only to be hewers of wood , and drawers of water . but this doth not yet clear the difficulty : for the question is , whether the subsistence of the clergy can lawfully be improved by a plurality of livings ? truly , i think this ( if it be allowed in some cases lawful ) to be the least desirable way of any ; but in some circumstances it is much more excusable than in others . as when the benefices are mean , when they lie near each other , when great care is taken to put in sufficient curates with good allowance ; when persons take all opportunities to do their duties themselves , and do not live at a distance from their benefices in an idle and careless manner . but for men to put in curates meerly to satisfie the law , and to mind nothing of the duties of their places , is a horrible scandal to religion and our church , and that , which if not amended , may justly bring down the wrath of god upon us . for the loosest of all the popish casuists look upon this as a very great sin , even those who attributed to the pope the highest dispensing power in this case . but when the great liberty of dispensing had made the ecclesiastical laws in great measure useless , then it was thought fit by our law-makers to restrain and limit it by a statute made h. viii . wherein it is enacted , that if any person or persons having one benefice with cure of souls , being of the yearly value of eight pounds , or above , accept , or take any other with cure of souls , and be instituted , and inducted in possession of the same , that then , and immediately after such possession had thereof , the first benefice shall be adjudged to be void . and all licenses and dispensations to the contrary are declared to be void and of none effect . this , one would have thought , had been an effectual remedy against all such pluralities and dispensations to obtain them ; and this , no doubt , was the primary design of the law ; but then follow so many proviso's of qualified men to get dispensations , as take off a great deal of the force and effect of this law. but then it ought well to be consider'd , whether such a license being against the chief design of a law , can satisfie any man in point of conscience , where there is not a just and sufficient cause ? for , if the pope's dispensation , with the supposed plenitude of his power , could not satisfie a man's conscience without an antecedent cause , as the casuists resolve , much less can such proviso's do it . it is the general opinion of divines and lawyers , saith lessius , that no man is safe in conscience by the pope's dispensation for pluralities , unless there be a just cause for it . no man can with a safe conscience , take a dispensation from the pope for more benefices than one , meerly for his own advantage , saith panormitan ; and from him sylvester and summ. angelica . a dispensation , saith cardinal to-let , secures a man as to the law ; but as to conscience there must be a good cause for it ; and that is , when the church hath more benefit by it , than it would have without it . but the pope's dispensing power went much farther in point of conscience in their opinion , than that which is setled among us by act of parliament . for it is expressed in the statute of hen. viii . that the dispensation is intended to keep men from incurring the danger , penalty , and forfeiture in the statute comprised . so that the most qualified person can only say , that the law doth not deprive him ; but he can never plead that it can satisfie him in point of conscience , unless there be some cause for it , which is of more moment to the church , than a man 's sole and constant attendance on a particular cure is . but this statute is more favourable to the clergy , than the canon law was before , in two particulars . . in declaring that no simple benefices , or meer dignities , as the canonists call them , are comprehended under the name of benefices , having cure of souls , viz. no deanary , archdeaconry , chancellorship , treasurership , chantership , or prebend in any cathedral or collegiate church , nor parsonage that hath a vicar endowed , nor any benefice perpetually appropriate . but all these before were within the reach of the canon law , and a dispensation was necessary for them : which shews , that this law had a particular respect to the necessary attendance on parochial cures , and looked on other dignities and preferments in the church , as a sufficient encouragement to extraordinary merit . . that no notice is taken of livings under the valuation of l. which , i suppose , is that of e. . for that of h. . was not till five years after that statute . but after that valuation it was to be judged according to it , and not according to the real value , as the judges declared car. i. in the case of drake and hill. now here was a regard had to the poorness of benefices , so far , that the statute doth not deprive the incumbent upon taking a second living , if the former be under l. the question that arises from hence is , whether such persons are allowed to enjoy such pluralities by law ; or only left to the ecclesiastical law , as it was before ? it is certain , that such are not liable to the penalty of this law ; but before any person might be deprived by the ecclesiastical law for taking a second benefice without dispensation , of what value soever the former were ; now here comes a statute , which enacts , that all who take a second benefice , having one of l. without qualification , shall lose his legal title to the first ; but what if it be under ? shall he lose it or not ? not by this law. but suppose the ecclesiastical law before makes him liable to deprivation ; doth the statute alter the law without any words to that purpose ? the bishop had a power before to deprive , where is it taken away ? the patron had a right to present upon such deprivation ; how comes he to lose it ? and i take it for granted , that no antecedent rights are taken away by implications ; but there must be express clauses to that purpose . so that i conclude , the ancient ecclesiastical law to be still in force , where it is not taken away by statute . and thus , my brethren , i have laid before you the authority and the rules we are to act by ; i have endeavoured to recommend to you , the most useful parts of your duty , and i hope you will not give me occasion to shew what power we have by the ecclesiastical law of this realm to proceed against offenders . nothing will be more uneasie to me , than to be forced to make use of any severity against you . and my hearts desire is , that we may all sincerely and faithfully discharge the duties of our several places , that the blessing of god may be upon us all ; so that we may save our selves , and those committed to our charge . of the nature of the trust committed to the parochial clergy , at a visitation at worcester , october st . . my brethren , i have formerly , on the like occasion , discoursed to you of the general duties of your function , and the obligation you are under to perform them ; and therefore i shall now confine my discourse to these two things : i. to consider the particular nature of the trust committed to you . ii. the obligation you are under to your parochial cures . i. the first is necessary to be spoken to ; for while persons have only so confused and cloudy apprehensions concerning it , they can neither be satisfied in the nature of their duties , nor in their performance of them . and there is danger as well in setting them so high as to make them impracticable , as in sinking them so low as to make , not only themselves , but their profession contemptible . for the world ( let us say what we will ) will always esteem men , not meerly for a name and profession , but for the work and service which they do . there is , no doubt , a reverence and respect due to a sacred function on its own account ; but the highest profession can never maintain its character among the rest of mankind , unless they who are of it , do promote the general good , by acting suitably to it . and the greater the character is , which any bear , the higher will the expectations of others be concerning them ; and if they fail in the greatest and most useful duties of their function , it will be impossible to keep up the regard which ought to be shew'd unto it . we may complain as long as we please of the unreasonableness of the contempt of the clergy in our days , ( which is too general , and too far spread ) but the most effectual means to prevent or remove it , is for the clergy to apply themselves to the most necessary duties , with respect to the charge and trust committed to them . but here arises a considerable difficulty , which deserves to be cleared ; viz. concerning the just measures of that diligence which is required . for , there are some who will never be satisfied that the clergy do enough , let them do what they can ; and it is to no purpose to think to satisfie them who are resolved not to be satisfied : but on the other side , some care not how little they do , and the less , the better they are pleased with them ; and others again , have raised their duties so high , that scarce any man can satisfie himself that he hath done his duty . it is a matter therefore of the highest consequence to us , to understand , what rule and measure is to be observed , so as we may neither wilfully neglect our duty , nor despair of doing it . here we are to consider two things ; . how far the scripture hath determined it . . what influence the constitution of our church is to have upon us concerning it . . the scripture doth speak something relating to it , both in the old and new testament . in the old testament we have the duties enjoyned to the levitical priesthood , and the extraordinary commissions given to the prophets . as to the levitical priesthood , we can only draw some general instructions , which may be of use , altho' that priesthood hath been long since at an end ; christ being our high-priest after another order , viz. of melchisedeck ; and our duty now is to observe his laws , and to offer that reasonable service which he requires . but even from the levitical priesthood , we may observe these things . . that although the main of their duty of attendance respected the temple and sacrifices ; yet at other times they were bound to instruct the people in the law. for so moses leaves it as a special charge to the tribe of levi , to teach iacob his iudgments , and israel his law. and to incourage them to do it , they had a liberal maintenance , far above the proportion of the other tribes . for , by computation it will be found , that they were not much above the sixtieth part of the people ; for when the other tribes were numbred from twenty years old , they made six hundred thousand , and three thousand and five hundred and fifty . but the children of levi were reckoned by themselves from a month old ; and they made but two and twenty thousand ; so that if the males of the other tribes had been reckoned , as they were , it is agreed by learned men , who had no fondness for the clergy , that they did not make above a fiftieth or sixtieth part ; and yet they had near a fifth of the profits , besides accidental perquisites , as to sacrifices , and ransoms of the first-born . thus , say they , god was pleased to enrich that tribe which was devoted to his service . but it was not certainly , that they should spend their time in idleness and luxury , but that they might with the greater freedom apply themselves to the study of the law , that they might instruct the people . for the cities of the levites were as so many colleges dispersed up and down in the several tribes , to which the people might upon occasion , more easily resort . . that if the people erred thro' ignorance of the law , god himself laid the blame on those who were bound to instruct them . my people , saith god by the prophet , are destroyed for lack of knowledge . if people are resolved to be ignorant , who can help it ? had they not the law to inform them ? but it is observable , that the peoples errors are laid to the charge of the priests , and the punishment is denounced against them . because thou hast rejected knowledge , i will also reject thee , that thou shalt be no priest unto me . it seems the priests were grown careless and negligent , as to their own improvements ; they did not know to what purpose they should take so much pains in studying the law , and the difficult points of it ; they were for a freedom of conversation , and hoped to keep up their interest among the people that way . therefore isaiah call them shepherds that cannot understand ; but were very intent upon their profits , they all look to their own way , every one for his gain from his quarter . but this was not all , for the prophet charges them with a voluptuous , careless , dissolute life . come ye , say they , i will fetch wine , and we will fill our selves with strong drink , and to morrow shall be as this day , and much more abundant . was not this a very agreeable life for those who were to instruct the people in the duties of sobriety and temperance ? it was death for the priests by the law to drink wine or strong drink , when they went into the tabernacle of the congregation ; and the reason given is , that ye may put a difference between holy and unholy , and between unclean and clean ; and that ye may teach the children of israel all the statutes , which the lord hath spoken to thee by the hand of moses . which implies , that those who are given to drinking wine or strong drink , are very unfit to instruct others in the law of god. and god looked on them as such a dishonour to his worship , that he threatens immediate death to them that approached to his altar , when they had drank wine ; and the iews say , that was the reason why nadab and abihu were destroyed . and then god said , i will be sanctified in them that come nigh me . all nations have abhorred sottish and drunken priests , as most unfit to approach to god when they were not themselves ; or to offer sacrifices for others , when they made beasts of themselves . but this was not all ; for god required from them who were to teach others the law , that they should be always in a capacity of understanding and practising it themselves . but if we proceed to the prophets , nothing can be more dreadful , than what god saith to ezekiel , that if he did not warn the people as he commanded them , their blood will i require at thy hand . is this charge now lying upon every one of you , as to every person under your care ? who would not rather run into a wilderness , or hide himself in a cave , than take such a charge upon him ? but we must distinguish what was peculiar to the prophet's immediate commission to go to any particular person in god's name , from a general charge to inform persons in their duties , and to tell them the danger of continuing in their sins . if any fail for want of information , when you are bound to give it , the neglect must fall heavy , and therefore you are bound to take all just opportunities in publick and private to inform those under your care of such sins as you know them to be guilty of ; not with a design to upbraid , but to reform them . in the new testament the charge is general to feed the flock of god ; and to do it willingly , not for filthy lucre , but of a ready mind ; and to be examples to the flock . but st. peter , who gives this advice , doth not determine who belong to the flock ; nor within what bounds it is to be limited ; and there were many flocks in the iewish dispersion , and many elders scattered up and down among them in pontus , asia , galatia , cappadocia , and bithynia ; so that here we have only general and excellent advice for such who had care of the several flocks , to carry themselves towards them with great humility and tenderness , with charity and goodness , as those that made it their business to do good among them , and conduct them in the way to heaven . st. paul , in his charge to those whom he sent for to miletus , tells them , that they must take heed to themselves , and to all the flock , over which the holy ghost hath made them overseers , to feed the church of god , which he hath purchased with his own blood. it 's possible here might be a particular designation of the flock they were to oversee , by the direction of the holy ghost ; but yet the charge is general to take heed to themselves and to the flock , and to promote the good of the church of god , which christ hath purchased with his own blood. which are the most weighty considerations in the world to excite us to the utmost care and diligence in discharge of our duties . in the epistle to the thessalonians they are said to be over them in the lord , and to admonish them . in that to the hebrews , to watch for their souls , as they that must give an account . no doubt , very great care and watchfulness is required in all that take so great and solemn an office upon them ; but where are the bounds and limits set , as to the people , and nature of the duties required from them ? must every man be left to his own conscience and judgment , what , and how far he is to go ? or can we suppose all men equally careful of doing their duties , if no particular obligation be laid upon them ? some of the eloquent fathers of the church , as st. chrysostom , st. ierom , st. gregory nazianzen , and others , have allowed themselves so much in the flights of fancy , and figures of speaking about the height and dignity of the sacred function , as if they had a mind to discourage all men of modest and humble dispositions from undertaking it . i do not wonder that they ran into solitudes , and withdrew from the world upon it ; but i do wonder how they came from thence and undertook the same charge afterwards , without giving an answer to their own arguments . for the world remained just as it was when they left it . mankind were still as impatient of being governed , or told of their faults , as sickle and humoursom , as prone to evil , and untractable to good , as it was before . and could they hope it would ever mend by their running away from it ? or , was their duty become more easie by declining it ; i think it was very well for the church of god , that , notwithstanding their own many arguments , they took the sacred office upon them at last , and did god and the church good service in it . but if men were to judge by their writings upon this argument , one would think none but those who had a mind to be damned , would undertake it . and their great strains of wit and eloquence , if they had any force , would keep the best men out of the church , who were most likely to do god service in it ; and we need no other instances than these very persons themselves . and if all good , and humble , and conscientious men should for the sake of the hardness of the work , decline the church's service , and take any other lawful imployment , what would become of the church of god ? for none that had , or intended to keep a good conscience , could undertake the cure of souls ; and so they must be left to such as had no regard to their own ; but were either ignorant , stupid and senseless creatures , or such as regarded not their own salvation , who durst undertake such a task , as would not only add to their own guilt , but bring the heavy load of other mens faults upon them too . what is now to be done in this case ? hath god really imposed such a task upon all those who enter into this sacred function , that it is morally impossible for an honest man to discharge it with a good conscience ? how then can any such undertake it ? but if it may be done , what are those bounds and rules we are to observe , so as a good man may satisfie himself in a competent measure , that he hath done his duty ? ii. and this is that which i shall now endeavour to clear . for every one who is in orders , hath a double capacity : one with respect to the church of god in general ; another to that particular flock which is allotted to him , by the constitution of this church , and the law of the land. for although the nature of our duty in general be determined by the word of god , as i have already ready shewed , yet the particular obligation of every one to his own flock , is according to that power and authority , which by the rules and orders of this church is committed to him , and is fully expressed in the office of ordination . by which it plainly appears , that the care of souls committed to persons among us , is not an absolute , indefinite , and unaccountable thing ; but is limited , as to place , persons , and duties , which are incumbent upon them . they are to teach the people committed to their charge ; by whom ? by the bishop when he gives institution . they are to give private as well as publick monitions and exhortations , as well to the sick , as to the whle : what , to all ? no , but to those within their cure. they are to banish erroneous doctrines , and to promote peace and love , especially among them committed to their charge . and last of all , they are to obey those who have the charge and government over them . these things are so express and plain in the very constitution of this church , and owned so solemnly by every one that enters into orders , that there can be no dispute concerning them . and from thence we observe several things that tend to the resolution of the main point , as to the satisfaction of doing your duties , as incumbents on your several places . i. that it is a cure of souls limited as to persons and place , i.e. within such a precinct as is called a parish . ii. that it is limited as to power , with respect to discipline . therefore i shall endeavour to clear these two things : i. what the just bounds and limits of parochial cures are . ii. what is the measure of that diligence which is required within those bounds . as to the former , we are to begin with the limitation as to place . i. that it is a cure of souls limited within certain bounds which are called parishes , which are now certainly known by long usage and custom , and ought still to be preserved with great care ; for otherwise confusion and disputes will arise between several ministers , and several parishes with one another . for since the duties and the profits are both limited , it is necessary that those bounds should be carefully preserved , as they generally are by annual perambulations . but there are some who will understand nothing of this bounding of ministerial duties by distinct parishes , who think they are at liberty to exercise their gifts where-ever they are called ; and that it were better that these parochial inclosures were thrown open , and all left at liberty to chuse such whom they liked best , and under whom they can improve most . these things seem to look plausibly at the first appearance , and to come nearest to the first gathering of churches , before any such thing as parishes were known . but to me this arguing looks like persons going about now to overthrow all dominion and property in lands and estates , because it seems not so agreeable with the first natural freedom of mankind ; who according to the original right of nature , might pick and chuse what served most to their own conveniency . but although this were the first state of things , yet the great inconveniencies which followed it , upon the increase of mankind , made division and property necessary ; and altho' there be no express command of god for it , yet being so necessary for the good of mankind , it was not only continued every where , but those persons were thought fit to be punished by severe laws , who invaded the rights and properties of others , either by open violence and rapine , or by secret stealth and purloining i grant , that at first there were no such parochial divisions of cures here in england , as there are now . for the bishops and their clergy lived in common ; and before that the number of christians was much increased , the bishops sent out their clergy to preach to the people , as they saw occasion . but after the inhabitants had generally embraced christianity , this itinerant and occasional going from place to place , was found very inconvenient , because of the constant offices that were to be administred ; and the peoples knowing to whom they should resort for spiritual offices and directions . hereupon the bounds of parochial cures were found necessary to be settled here by degrees , by those bishops who were the great instruments of converting the nation from the saxon idolatry . but a work of this nature could not be done all at once , as by a kind of agrarian law , but several steps were taken in order to it . at first , as appears by bede , they made use of any old british churches that were left standing ; so augustin at first made use of st. martin's near canterbury , and after repaired christs-church , which were both british churches . but ethelbert gave all incouragement both to repair old churches and to build new. however , the work went on slowly ; augustin consecrated but two bishops , which were setled at london and rochester , where ethelbert built and endowed two churches for the bishops and their clergy to live together . in the western parts bicinus built several churches about dorchester , where his see was fixed . wilfred converted the south-saxons , and settled presbyters in the isle of wight , but they were but two . in the kingdom of mercia there were five diocesses made in theodore's time ; and putta , bishop of rochester , being driven from his see , he obtained from saxulphus , a mercian bishop , a church with a small glebe , and there he ended his days . in the northern parts we read of two churches built by two noblemen , ( puch and addi ) upon their own manors . and the same might be done elsewhere ; but bede would never have mentioned these , if the thing had been common . but in his epistle to egbert , archbishop of york , a little before his death he intimates the great want of presbyters and parochial settlements , and therefore earnestly perswades him to procure more . and if egbert's canons be genuine ( of which there are several ancient mss. ) the duties of presbyters in their several churches are set down : however , the work went not on so fast , but in his successor eanbaldus his time , the bishops were required to find out convenient places to build churches in ; and the same passed in the southern parts by general consent . in the council of cloveshoo , we read of presbyters placed up and down by the bishops in the manors of the laity , and in several parts distinct from the episcopal see ; and there they are exhorted to be diligent in their duties . in the times of edgar and canutus , we read of the mother churches , which had the original settlement of tithes , ( after they were given to the church by several laws ) and of the churches built upon their own lands by the lords of manors ; to which they could only apply a third part of the tithes . but in the laws of canutus , we find a fourfold distinction of churches . . the head church , or the bishop's see. . churches of a second rank , which had right of sepulture , and baptism , and tithes . . churches that had right of sepulture , but not frequented . . field-churches or oratories , which had no right of burial . the second sort seem to be the original parochial churches which had the endowment of tithes , and were so large , that several other churches were taken out of them by the lords of manors ; and so the parishes came to be multiplied so much , that in the laws of edward the confessor , c. . it is said , that there were then three or four churches , where there had been but one before . in this diocess i find by an epistle of wulston , bishop of worcester , to anselm , that before the conquest there were churches in vills , or upon particular manors that were consecrated . and if william the conqueror demolished six and thirty parish churches in the compass of the new forest , as is commonly said , there must be a very great number before the conquest ; although so few are said to appear in doomsday book ; ( yet there are many parochial churches of this diocess in it , above twenty in two deanaries ) but the normans almost ruined the parochial clergy , by seizing the tithes , and making appropriations of them . but in the saxon times the number still encreased , as lords of manors and others were willing to erect new churches , and to have a settled parochial minister among them , who was to take care of the souls of the people within such a precinct , as hath obtained the name of a parish . but parishes now are of a very different extent and value ; but the obligation which the law puts upon them , is the same ; only where the maintenance is greater they may have the more assistants . and from hence came the difference among the parochial clergy ; for , those whose parishes were better endowed , could maintain inferior clerks under them , who might be useful to them in the publick service , and assist them in the administration of sacraments . and this was the true original of those we now call parish-clerks ; but were at first intended as clerks-assistant to him that had the cure ; and therefore he had the nomination of them , as appears by the ecclesiastical law , both here and abroad . and lyndwood saith , every vicar was to have enough to serve him , and one clerk or more ; and by the canon-law , no church could be founded , where there was not a maintenance for assisting-clerks . in the synod of worcester , under walter cantelupe , in henry the third's time , they are called capellani parochiales , and the rectors of parishes were required to have such with them . and the canon law doth allow a rector to give a title to another to receive orders as an assistant to him ; and this without any prejudice to the patron 's right ; because but one can have a legal title to the cure. but lyndwood observes very well , that those who gives titles to others , as their assistants or curates , are bound to maintain them if they want . these are called vicarii parochiales , & stipendiarii ; but conductitii presbyteri , who are forbidden , were those who took livings to farm , without a title . but after appropriations came in , then there were another sort of vicars called perpetui , and were endowed with a certain portion of the temporalities , and were admitted ad curam animarum : but such could not personam ecclesiae sustinere in an action at law about the rights of the church , but as to their own right they might . but still there is another sort of vicars , who are perpetual , but not endowed any otherwise than the bishop did allow a congrua portio ; and this was in appropriations where the bishop consented only upon those terms , as they generally were so made , till the neglect made the statutes necessary , r. . . and h. . . the bishops were to make , or enlarge the allowance , say the canonists , after presentation , and before institution , and were to see that it were a sufficient subsistence . but there were some cures which had chapels of ease belonging to them ; and they who offiuated in them , were called capellani , and had their subsistence out of the oblations and obventions , and were often perpetual and presentative . and where the incumbents had several chapels of ease , and only assistants to supply them , the canon law doth not call them rectores , but plebani ; who had a sort of peculiar jurisdiction in lesser matters ; but still they were under the bishops authority in visitations and other ecclesiastical censures , because the care of the whole diocess belonged to him iure communi ; and so it was taken for granted in all parts of the christian world : and especially in this kingdom , where parochial episcopacy was never heard of till of late years . for , nothing can be plainer in our history , than what is affirmed in two of our laws , stat. of carlisle , e. . and the stat. of provisors , e. . that the church of england was founded in prelacy , or diocesan episcopacy . for our first bishops were so far from being confined to one church or town , that at first in the saxon-division of kingdoms , every bishop had his diocess equal with the extent of the kingdom , except in kent , where one suffragan to the archbishop at rochester was confirmed . the first conversion of the english nation to christianity from paganism , was by the diocesan bishops , who were sent hither from several parts , and the presbyters imployed by them ; and as the number of christians increased , the number of bishops did so too ; so that in the parts of mercia one diocess was divided into five , that they might the better look after the government of them ; and every bishop , as appears by the saxon-councils , was bound to see parochial churches built , and the clergy to be settled in them to attend upon the duties of their function among the people committed to their charge . that which i have aimed at in this discourse , was to shew , that the original constitution of this church , was episcopal ; but yet that the bishops did still design to fix a parochial clergy under them , as churches could be built and endowed . it remains now to shew , that this constitution of a parochial clergy , is more reasonable , than that of an unfixed , and unsettled clergy by law ; which will easily appear , if we consider , . the greater advantage as to unity , and real edification among the people . for this makes them to be as one body within certain bounds : and the people know whither to resort for publick worship and sacraments ; and the inconveniencies , as to the difference of mens abilities , is not so great , as the inconveniency of a broken , divided people , as to religion ; which always creates suspicions and jealousies , and generally contempt and hatred of each other . and i think every wise and good christian will consider , that which tends to peace and unity , is really more edifying than a far better talent of elocution , or the most moving way of exciting the fancies and passions of hearers . for , s. paul tells us , charity is beyond miraculous gifts . it is easie to observe , that the wisest methods are seldom the most popular ; because the generality of mankind do not judge by reason , but by fancy , and humour , and prejudices of one kind or other . from hence the heats of enthusiasm , and odd gestures , and vehement expressions , with no deep or coherent sense , take much more with ordinary and injudicious people , than the greatest strength and clearness of reason , or the soundest doctrine , and the most pious exhortation , if they be not set off in such a way as strikes their imaginations , and raises their passions . and this is that which such do commonly call the most edifying way of preaching , which is like the coming up of the tide with noise and violence , but leaves little effect ; whereas the other is like a constant stream which goes on in a steady and even course , and makes the earth more fruitful . the one is like a storm of thunder and lightning , which startles , and confounds , and amuses more ; but the other is like a gentle rain which softens and mellows the ground , and makes it more apt to produce kindly and lasting fruit. we are to judge of true edification , not by the sudden heat and motion of passions , but by producing the genuine effects of true religion ; which are fixing our minds on the greatest and truest good , and calming and governing our disorderly passions , and leading a godly , righteous and sober life . but we too often find violent and boisterous passions , an ungovernable temper , envy , strife and uncharitableness , growing up with greater pretences to zeal , and better ways of edification . i never expect to see the world so wise , as to have persons and things universally esteemed according to their real worth. for there will be a tincture in most persons , from temper , and inclination , and the principles of education ; but generally speaking matters of order and decency , and things which tend to a publick good , affect those most , who have the best judgment and temper ; and irregular heats , and disorderly methods of praying and preaching , those whose religion makes more impression upon their fancies , than their judgments , and is seen more in the inflaming their passions , than in keeping them in their due order . . there is a greater advantage as to discipline : for , if among the teachers they are under no bounds nor subjection to a superiour authority , it is very easie to avoid any kind of censure for the most corrupt doctrines or practices . we cannot boast much of the strict exercise of discipline among us ; and one great reason is , that many have more mind to complain of the want of it , than to do their endeavour to amend it . we hear of many complaints of the clergy in general , and sometimes by those who have more mind to have them thought guilty , than to prove them so , for fear they should acquit themselves , or at least the church should not bear the blame of their miscarriages . but we cannot proceed arbitrarily , we must allow them timely notice , and summon them to appear , and a just liberty of defence ; but if upon proof , and sufficient evidence we have not proceeded against them with the just severity of the law , then we ought to bear the blame , but not otherwise . but whatsoever personal neglects or faults there have been , or may be , my business is to shew , that our way is much better fitted for the just exercise of discipline , than that of independant congregations , altho' the managers of them pick and cull out the best they can for their purpose ; and one would think , when they had made choice of members to their mind , and bound them together by an explicit covenant , they should be very easie , and tractable , and submissive to their own discipline . but they have found the contrary by their sad experience ; they grow too heady and wilful to bear any such thing as strict discipline ; for when they had the courage to exercise it , their congregations were soon broken to pieces , and the several divided parts were for setting up new heads one against another , till at last they found it was much easier to be teaching than to be ruling elders . and so they have let the reins of discipline fall to keep their congregations together . but suppose the teachers should fall out among themselves ; as , to give a fresh and late remarkable instance : suppose some set up antinomianism , and preach such doctrines to the people or flocks before you , which others think of dangerous consequence , what is to be done in such a case ? they may send some brethren to enquire whether the matters of fact be true . suppose they find them true , what then ? what is to be done next ? it may be , some would have them come up to their brethren and answer to the accusations brought against them . but suppose they will not ; and others of the brethren say , they ought not ; and so fall into heats and disputes among themselves about it , and make new parties and divisions : is not this an admirable way of preserving peace , and order , and discipline in a church ? and i am as certain , this is not the way of christ's appointing , as i am , that god is the god of order , and not of confusion ; and that when christ left the legacy of peace to his church , he left a power in some to see his will performed . but these things can never be objected against us ; for all are members of the same body , and are governed by certain and known rules ; and if any be guilty of open violation of it , the way is open to accuse and prosecute them ; and if they be found guilty , the censures of the church will render them uncapable of doing it in such a station ; or at least , to bring them to confession of their fault , and promise of future amendment . and now i leave any one to judge , whether the parochial clergy are not under greater and better discipline , than the teachers of the separate congregations . ii. but the great complaint of such men is , that we want parochial and congregational discipline , so that faults should be examined and punished where they have been committed ; but instead of that , all matters are drawn into the ecclesiastical court , and there causes are managed so , as looks rather like a design to punish men in their purses , than for their faults ; and the delays are so great , that the court it self seems to be designed for penance , and grows very uneasie , even to those who are the members of our church . and some think that the proceeding against men upon articles of enquiry , not so agreeable to the rights and liberties of mankind . in answer to this , i shall consider , ( . ) the proceedings upon enquiry at visitations . ( . ) the method of proceeding in the ecclesiastical courts . ( . ) the inconveniencies of parochial discipline . . as to enquiries at visitations . they were grounded upon one of the main pillars of our law , viz. an ancient , immemorial custom founded upon good reason : in the first canons that ever were made in this church under theodore , archbishop of canterbury ; the second is , that every bishop is to look after the government of his own diocess , and not to invade anothers . and that in so doing they went about their diocesses in order to an enquiry and correction of miscarriages , is evident from the council under cuthbert , archbishop of canterbury , can. . . the first council at calechyth , can. . the constitutions of odo , archbishop of canterbury , can. . and the canon of edgar , can. . but in these saxon times , the visitations were annual , which were found inconvenient ; and therefore in the norman times , the archdeacons were taken into a part of the jurisdiction under the bishop , and visited those years the bishop did not . but we meet with no archdeacons with any kind of jurisdiction in the saxon times ; we read indeed sometimes of the name of archdeacons , but they had nothing to do in the diocess , but only attended the bishop at ordinations , and other publick services in the cathedral . lanfranc was the first who made an archdeacon with jurisdiction in his see. and thomas first archbishop of york , after the conquest , was the first who divided his diocess into archdeaconries ; and so did remigius , bishop of lincoln , his large diocess into seven archdeaconries , saith h. of huntingdon : and so it was with the rest ; of which there were two occasions , . the laying aside the corepiscopi in the western parts , as assuming too much to themselves . . the publick services which the bishops were more strictly tied to , as the king's barons in the norman times : which was the reason not only of taking in archdeacons , but likewise of archpresbyters or rural-deans , who had some inspection into the several deanaries , and assisted the bishop in such things , as they were appointed to do ; and then came in the other ecclesiastical officers , as vicars general , chancellors , commissaries , &c. for we read not of them here at all in the saxon times ; but about the time of hen. ii. the bishops took them for their assistance in dispatch of causes , when the king required their strict attendance on the publick affairs in the supreme court of parliament . . as to the method of proceeding in the ecclesiastical courts , it is no other than hath been continued here without interruption , till of late years , ever since the conquest . for the consistory-court , and the rules of proceeding there , were established by a law in the time of william the first . as far as i can find by king edward's laws , c. . the bishops did then proceed by the ecclesiastical laws , although they then sat in the county-court ; but this caused so much confusion , that william , by a general consent , and a charter directed to all the people of england , doth separate the ecclesiastical from the temporal courts ; which was enrolled as good law , r. . upon occasion of a suit of the dean and chapter of lincoln ; and therefore the charter of remigius , bishop of lincoln , is more mentioned than others , but the same was to all the bishops and counties of england , as appears by other copies of it . thus the consistory-court was first established , as a distinct court from the county-court , which it was not in the saxon times , for then the bishop sate with the civil magistrate in the same court ; and ecclesiastical causes were first heard and decided there . it seems the people wer very unwilling to go to a new place ; and therefore the law is inforced with severe penalties for contempt . and those who object against the reasonableness of the method of proceeding in those courts , must reflect upon some of the wisest nations in the world , who have gone upon the same grounds , in all that have received the civil law , and upon some of the greatest courts at this time in the kingdom , as the chancery and admiralty , which go by the same fundamental rules . as to any objections which arise from the personal faults of those who are imployed in them , that reaches , i am afraid , to all courts ; and it ought to be the work and business of those who look after them , to do what in them lies , to reform them , that others faults may not be laid at their doors . . but for those who would have a parochial or congregational discipline set up , as much better , and more effectual , i shall desire them to consider , that since matters of discipline are such , as that in them the reputation and interest of persons is very much concerned , they ought not to be left to arbitrary proceedings of any persons , but they ought to be managed by the certain and common rules of justice ; since every man hath a right to defend himself , when he is accused . and unless there be known and established methods of proceeding agreeable to natural justice , and the laws of the land , nothing would be more grievous and intolerable than the common exercise of a parochial discipline . for , . it cannot be presumed , that there will be competent judges . for every one who hath a faculty of preaching , hath not a faculty of judging in such cases . and where discretion and a judgment of circumstances is wanting , an honest mind will not secure men from doing injury , and exposing their judicature to contempt . . they have no fixed and established rules of proceeding , as there are in the ecclesiastical courts , which have been continued down from time to time , and allowed by the laws of the land. and what miserable disorder must follow an arbitrary method , when humour , and will , and passion may over-rule justice , and equity , and conscience ? . they are not under the check of the law , as the ecclesiastical courts are . for , if they exceed their bounds , either as to the nature of the cause , or the manner of proceeding , they are liable to prohibitions from the king's courts of justice ; but the law can take no notice of parochial or congregational judicatures , and so men may suffer without remedy . . they have no way to judge of legal evidence , which is very material when a person is accused . it is one of the nicest points in all criminal proceedings to determine what is good and sufficient evidence . for several things are to be weighed , before either witnesses or testimonies can be allowed . as to witnesses , it is required that they be persons of reputation , and free from infamy of law and fact ; that they be disinterested , and so not liable to the just suspicion of partiality ; that they be men of discretion and sane memory ; and all reasonable exceptions are to be allowed against them . as to testimonies ; they must be by our law upon oath ; and what authority have such persons to give an oath , and why shall a man be liable to suffer by a testimony , without one , when the law requires it ? they must be deliberate , and not given in passion , consistent as to time , place , and other circumstances : they must be certain and positive , and not upon hear-say , or the believing of other persons : they must be free from any just suspicion of contrivance and conspiracy , or any sort of corruption or partiality . and now is every parochial minister , or select congregation fit to judge of these matters , whereon the reputation , and consequently the interest of every person may be so deeply concerned ? . they have no way to prevent a percipitate and hasty sentence . suppose a man be accused by one of interest and passion , who possesses others with the same opinion before-hand , and the judges are all prejudiced before the matter comes to be heard ; and in popular assemblies some few men sway the rest , what a case is a person accused unjustly in ? he hath no liberty for others that are not of the congregation , altho' more disinterested , either to come in to judge , or to plead for him : he can have no advocate to defend him , or to shew the weakness , or inconsistency of the evidence against him . in all ecclesiastical courts , they may sometimes proceed summarily , but even then the fundamental rules of the court must be observed , as to proofs and witnesses , or else the sentence is void ; but here the sentence will take place , altho' there hath not been the least colour of justice in the whole proceedings . . here is no settled course of appeals in case of a wrong sentence . but where men are liable to mistake and passion , a right of appeal is one of the fundamental parts of justice . and therefore independent and arbitrary courts of judicature , as all congregational churches are , are inconsistent with the common rights of mankind , and that due subordination which ought to be in all societies in order to the preserving order and justice among men. but suppose , parochial discipline so settled among us , as to allow a liberty of appeal , how would the trouble , and vexation , and expence be increased , by going from the parochial sentence to the bishop's court , and from thence still further ? so that if there be some inconveniencies in point of distance , for persons to be summoned to appear at first so far from home , yet there is some compensation by the less trouble and charges , if due care be taken to prevent delays , and unnecessary expences ; which ought to be done : and those who do make the greatest clamour against our courts , are rather willing they should continue such as they may have cause to complain of , than to do their endeavours to reform them . thus i have endeavoured to shew the just bounds and limits of parochial cures . ii. i now come to consider the just measure of that diligence which is required under those limits . for our church requires faithful diligence in preaching , and sacraments , and prayers , and reading the holy scriptures . if then we can understand what this faithful diligence implies , we may come to satisfie our selves whether we do our duty or not . . faithful diligence implies serious application of our minds to the main end and design of our holy function : which is to do good to the souls of men , especially to those committed to your charge . and an idle , careless , santering life ; or one too busie and distracted with the cares of the world , are not consistent with it . i do not go about to take you off from necessary business , and reasonable allowances , as to health and studies ; but that the doing good to your peoples souls , ought to be the principal and chief design of your thoughts , studies and endeavours . and if the people be satisfied that this is really your design among them , you will find , that your doctrine will be easier received , your persons esteemed , and your labours valued . it is possible , you may meet with a froward , peevish , self-willed people ; and it is hard when a man is only set to water and mend a hedge made up of briars and thorns ; the more pains he takes , the more scratches he may meet with ; but if it be your lot , be not discouraged from doing your duty : remember what sort of people the prophets were sent to , and what usage they had from them ; what hardships and reproaches christ and his apostles underwent from a very unkind world ; but a patient continuance in well-doing , gave them inward satisfaction in the midst of all , and did by degrees gain the christian doctrine access to the hearts of those who most opposed it . . it implies an honest and conscientious care of discharging the known and common duties of your function , as preaching , praying , catechizing , administring sacraments , visiting the sick , &c. a diligent person is one who neglects no good opportunities of doing his business , but watches for them , and studies to improve them to the best advantage . can those satisfie themselves that they use faithful diligence , who shamefully neglect their cures , and care not how seldom they come at them , nor how they are supplied , if they make a good bargain for their own advantage ? i cannot deny , but that according to the laws of the land , and the canons of this church , some persons are allowed to have two several cures , which must imply a non-residence for some time at least , upon one of them . but they still suppose , that there are persons resident upon them , who are allowed by the bishop to be sufficient to discharge the necessary duties of the place , and not to be taken up like post-horses , the next that comes , and to be turned off at the next stage . i think it a very great fault in those who have pluralities , that they look no more after the curates they imploy , and that they do not bring them to the bishop to be approved , and to have their allowance fixed , before they imploy them . they think no more is required but to pay the fees for a licence ; but i have , and shall endeavour to convince the clergy of this diocess , that licences are not to be taken as st. peter took the fish that first came with money in the mouth of it ; i hope to be able to satisfie them , that it is not the fees that we aim at , but at persons doing their duties . and our canons are express , that no curate is to be allowed in any cure of souls , that hath not been examined and admitted by the bishop or ordinary having episcopal jurisdiction , and attested by the hand and seal of the bishop . how then come curates to officiate without ever coming to the bishop at all , or undergoing any examination by him ? this is a plain breach of the canon , and ought to be reformed . i do not say , that such licences as have customarily passed without the bishop's hand and seal , are void ; but i do say , that they are irregular and voidable , and none ought to be allowed , which are not according to the canon ; and that no incumbent ought to take any one for his curate till the bishop hath allowed and approved him under his hand and seal . and this remedy the law gives us against the inconveniencies which attend pluralities by weak and insufficient curates ; but no man is excused either by law or canons from attending the duties of his place at some times in his own person , and that good part of the year ; in which time he ought to do the duties of his place with diligence and care ; and to acquaint himself with his parishioners , in order to the better discharge of his duty towards them . they have very mean thoughts of their holy function , that think the main part of it lies only in the pulpit ( i wish even that were minded more ) but all the ways you can do good among your people , is within the compass of your duty ; not meerly to instruct them in religion , but to prevent quarrels , and contentions , and meetings for debauchery , which tend to corrupt mens minds , and draw them off from the principles as well as practice of true religion : it is your duty to endeavour to make them live like good christians and good neighbours , and to set patterns your selves of sobriety , meekness , charity , and of every thing praise-worthy . . faithful diligence implies filling up your vacant hours with the most useful studies , as to the main end of your function . for in your ordination you solemnly promise to lay aside the study of the world and the flesh , and to apply your selves to the study of the scriptures , and such studies as help to the knowledge of the same . but it may be seasonably asked by some , what method and course of studies will best conduce to that end ? to this i shall endeavour to give a short answer so far as it concerns the main end of your function , which it is most proper for me to consider at this time . . look well to the temper of your minds , that it be humble , sober , and religious . for a vain , affected and self-opinionated person can never have an inward and hearty relish of divine truths . the scriptures will appear to him either too plain and easie , or too obscure and intricate ; some things will seem low and flat , and others too lofty and poetical . those who read not with a good mind , will have always something or other to cavil at . it is a mighty advantage in all spiritual knowledge to come to it with an unbiassed mind , free from the power of prejudice and evil inclinations . for these give a strange tincture to the mind , and hinder the clear and distinct perception of revealed truths , as above the natural faculties which god hath given us . some are therefore so fond of philosophical speculations , that unless the letter of the scripture suits with them , they are ready to despise it , and only shame and fear keep up any reverence for it in them . some are altogether for mathematical evidence and demonstration , as though the way to salvation were to be shewed by lines and figures ; why do they not first run down all laws and history , because they are not capable of mathematical evidence . and it argues a far greater measure of true understanding to know when to be satisfied , than to be always disputing and cavilling . the plainness of scripture in some places , is no more an offence to one that wisely considers the design of it , than a beaten road is to a traveller who desires to know which is the true way to his journeys end , and the plainer it is , the more he is satisfied with it . but the scripture wants not its depths , which require a very attentive and considering mind , and will afford matter for exercise of thoughts , and frequent and serious meditation . the excellency of the scripture is , that all necessary things are plain ; and such as are not so , although they are not necessary to be known for salvation , yet require our diligence to understand them ; and give great satisfaction as far as we can know them . . not to perplex your minds with difficulties above your reach , as in what relates to the eternal decrees , and the particular manner of that unity of the godhead which is consistent with the trinity of persons . for since the scripture doth assert both , we may safely be contented with what the scripture reveals , although the manner of it be incomprehensible . and as to the other the scripture is clear and positive , as to the moral parts of our duties ; and if we are to seek how to reconcile them with gods decrees , we have this certain rule to go by , that without doing our duty , we cannot be happy ; but we may without understanding how the freedom of our wills is consistent with the divine prescience and decrees . . not to fix plain and necessary duties upon new and unaccountable theories . as for instance ; there are no duties of greater consequence , than the love of god and our neighbour : but it would be unspeakable mischief to religion to fix the love of god upon so absurd a principle as his being the immediate cause of all sensation in us . and it would have made the christian doctrine ridiculous to found its fundamental precepts on extravagant notions , and mystical contemplations . and so for the love of our neighbours to allow only a love of benevolence and charity , and not of delight and complacency , is to make nice distinctions , where god hath made none . but to take away the love of complacency in friends and relations , and the blessings which god gives for the comfort of life , is to overthrow the due sense of god's goodness in giving them ; and to take away a great measure of that gratitude we owe to god for them . but when any seem very fond of such notions , and shew so much self-complacency in them ; it is impossible upon such principles that they should love their neighbours as themselves . . if you would understand the new testament aright , fix in your minds a true scheme of the state of the controversies of that . time , which will give you more light into the true knowledge of the scriptures , than large volumes of commentators , or the best systems of modern controversies . as what the iewish notions of justification by works , and expiation of sin , were ; and of god's decrees of election and reprobation as to themselves : and what the principles of the judaizing christians were , as to the joyning the law and the gospel , and the pythagorean superstition together . and what the gnosticks , who were professed libertines , held , as to grace , redemption , liberty , government , &c. all which tend very much to the clearing the sense of the new testament . . where the sense appears doubtful , and disputes have been raised about it , enquire into the sense of the christian church in the first ages , as the best interpreter of scripture ; as whether the apostles left bishops or presbyters to succeed them in the government of churches ; whether the apostles appointed the lords day to be observed as the day of publick worship ; whether baptism were not to be administred to infants as well as circumcision , both being seals of god's covenant ; whether divine worship doth not belong to christ , and were ●o● given to him in the hymns and doxologies of the primitive church ; and , whether divine worship can be given to any creature ; whether the form of baptism was not understood so , as to imply a trinity of persons ; and , whether all true christians were not baptized into this faith ; and consequently , whether denying the trinity be not renouncing christian baptism . these and many other such questions of great importance , receive great light from the writings of the first ages . but some rules may be very useful for right judging the sense of those times . . to distinguish the genuine and supposititious writings of that time. this hath been examined with so much care by learned men of this last age , that it is no hard matter to make a true judgment about them . . in those that are genuine , to distingush the sense of the church , delivered by them , from their own particular opinions ; the sense of the church is best known by publick acts , as by creeds , sacraments , hymns , prayers and censures of such as oppose or contradict them . . to put a difference between the authority of private persons , and of the bishops and governours of the church , who may be presumed to understand the sense of the church , and the doctrine of the apostles better than the other . and so clemens , ignatius , polycarp , theophilus , and irenaeus are more to be trusted , as to the sense and practice of the christian church , than such as hermes , and papias , and tatianus , who had neither the judgment nor the authority of the other . . that may be justly looked on as the sense of the church , which is owned both by the friends and the enemies of it . the enemies of christianity charged them with many things , which the apologists utterly denied . now we find pliny charging the christians with singing hymns to christ , as to god ; several christian writers of that time mention this , but never go about to soften , or to excuse , or deny it . and so we find lucian deriding the christians for the doctrine of three and one ; which the apologists of that time are so far from denying , that they assert and vindicate it , as appears by athenagoras and others . but these things i only touch at , to shew how the sense of the church is to be taken , and how from thence the sense of the scriptures may be cleared . of the particular duties of the parochial clergy , at a visitation , october th . . my brethren , as often as it pleases god in his wise providence to bring me among you in the ordinary course of my visitation , i cannot satisfie my self that i do my own duty , unless i put you in mind of doing yours . we live in an age , wherein the contempt of the clergy is too notorious not to be observed ; but the true reasons are not so well considered as they ought to be . some , to increase the contempt of the clergy , have given such reasons of it , as seem to make it a light and jesting matter ; but truly it is very far from being so : for the contempt of religion is oft-times both the cause and the effect of it . it is not at all to be wondred at , that those who hate to be reformed , should hate those whose duty and business it ought to be to endeavour to reform them . but when religion is struck at through our sides , we ought with patience to bear the wounds and reproaches we receive in so good a cause . wo be to us , if those who are enemies to religion , speak well of us : for it is a strong presumption that they take us to be of their side in our hearts , and that we are distinguished only by our profession , which they look on only as our trade . and we give too much occasion for such suspicions of us , if we do not heartily concern our selves for the honour and interest of true religion in the world , whatever we may suffer , as to our reputation , for the sake of it . it is possible , that if we go about to humour such persons in their infidelity and contempt of religion , we may escape some hard words for the present , but they cannot but have the greatest inward contempt and hatred of all those who live upon religion , and yet have not the courage to defend it . and what satisfaction can such have , when they reflect upon themselves , and think what occasion they have given to confirm such persons in their infidelity , and to make them think the worse of religion for their sakes . the best thing we can do to recover the honour of religion , and to set our profession above contempt , is to apply our selves seriously and conscientiously to do our duties . for if others find that we are in earnest , and make it our great business to do all the good we can , both in the pulpit , and out of it ; if we behave our selves with that gravity , sobriety , meekness and charity which becomes so holy a profession , we shall raise our selves above the common reproaches of a spiteful world ; and do what lies in us to stop the mouths at least , if not to gain the hearts of our enemies . for the real esteem which men have of others , is not to be gained by the little arts of address and insinuation , much less by complying with them in their follies ; but by a steady and resolute practice of our own duties , joyned with a gentle , and easie , and obliging behaviour to others , so far as is consistent with them . but a proud , supercilious , morose behaviour towards our greatest enemies , doth but make them much more so ; if any thing softens them , and makes them more tractable , it will be , joyning a firmness of mind , as to our plain duties , with humility and kindness in other matters . but what are these duties we are obliged to so much care in the performance of ? there is a twofold obligation lying upon us . i. that which is more general from the nature and design of our imployment ; which is the cure of souls ; and that requires great diligence and faithfulness , frequent recollection and consideration , serious application of our selves to divine studies and imployments ; a prudent use of the best methods for the convincing , reproving , directing and assisting those who are committed to our care. and all these are implied in the nature of our office , as it is set forth in holy scripture ; wherein we are described as laborers , and therefore must take pains , and not spend our time in vain and idle company : as teachers , and therefore ought to be stored with a good stock of knowledge our selves , and be ready to communicate it to others : as pastors , and so we ought to look after our flock , and not leave them to the careless management of others , who are not so concerned for their welfare , as we ought to be : as ambassadors from christ , and therefore we are bound to look after the business we are sent upon and the great weight and importance of it , as to your own salvation as well as others : as stewards of the mysteries of god , and the first thing required in them , is to discharge their trust honestly and faithfully , remembring the account they must give to god. but these , you may say , are only general things , and do not determine and limit our duties within certain bounds ; what is there which doth fix and determine our duties , as to the station we have in this church ? ii. i come therefore to the special duties , which by the ancient constitution of this church , and the ecclesiastical laws of it , are incumbent upon you . and you are to consider , that as the law hath taken care for your maintenance and subsistence in doing your duties ; so it doth suppose your careful performance of them , not only in regard to the general rule of conscience , but to that particular obligation you are under , as members of this church . and therefore i shall enquire into two things : i. the duties you are under this obligation to . ii. the incouragement which the law gives in consideration of it . i. the duties are of two sorts : . publick and solemn . . private and occasional . . publick and solemn ; and those either respect the time , or the duties themselves . . as to the times of solemn and publick worship , which are the weekly lord's days , and the other holy-days . . i begin with the observation of the lord's days ; which i shall now make appear to have been set apart for the solemn worship and service of god , especially by the clergy , from the first settlement of a parochial clergy in this church . in a provincial council held at cloveshoo or cliff , a. d. . the king and nobility being present ( where the archbishop and bishops assembled for regulating the worship of god in parochial churches then newly erected in many places ) the fourteenth canon is express , that the lord's day ought to be celebrated with due veneration , and devoted only to divine worship ( divino tantum cultui dedicatus ) and the presbyters are required to officiate in their several churches , both in preaching and praying ; and the people are required to let alone their common worldly affairs , and to attend the publick worship of god. the canons of egbert , archbishop of york , are as clear and full for the northern province , as the other for the southern , can. . that nothing is to be done on the lord's day , but what tends to the worship and service of god. and can. . that christ sanctified the lord's day by his resurrection . but because these canons of egbert will be often used , something ought to be observed to clear their authority . sir h. spelman saith , there are several ancient mss. of them . mr. selden owns the cotton ms. to be of the time of h. . but he suspects that another made the collection , and put it under his name . but it was no strange thing for the great bishops to make such a collection of canons ; for so it was done by theodore , archbishop of canterbury ; by theodulphus of orleans ; isaac lingonensis , chrodegangus , herardus , hincmarus , &c. and egbert was not only a great man , brother to the king of the northumbrians , but a great promoter of learning and ecclesiastical discipline , as appears by his dialogue about the latter , and the other by alcuin's epistles about him , and bede's epistle to him a little before his death . and the agreement between the capitulars and these canons , might come from alcuin's carrying them over into france with him . in the saxon canons , c. . it is said , that the lord's day on which our saviour rose from the dead , is to be devoted wholly to the service of god , excepting only works of necessity and charity . these canons are translated from those of theodulphus , bishop of orleans , a. d. . and it is observable , that as the christian religion prevailed in these northern parts , so the religious observation of the lord's day was enforced , as appears by the canons of the gallican church , as well as this . as in the famous canon of the council of mascon , a. d. . where the bishops assembled , complain of the neglect of the lord's day , and agree to put the people upon a stricter observance of it . and so before in the council of orleans , a. d. . but in both these canons they avoid a iewish superstition as well as profane neglect . they allowed both works of necessity and conveniency , and did not place the observation in a bare rest , but in attendance on the worship of god ; and forbad all manner of secular imployments which were inconsistent with it . nay , theodulphus his canon goes higher , tantummodo deo vacandum , the whole day ought to be spent in religious and charitable imployments . the greatest men in our saxon churches asserted the same . bede saith , that the apostles appointed the lord's day to be observed with religious solemnity , and therein we ought to devote our selves to the worship of god ; tantum divinis cultibus seviamus . and to the same purpose speaks alcuin , who was bred up under egbert , archbishop of york , and calls bede the greatest master of his time ; and in another place he saith , one seventh day is set apart among christians , as another had been among the iews for the service of god ; and that therein we ought to attend to the care of our souls , and to lead a spiritual life . bede distinguishes between the patriarchal and iewish sabbath . the latter he calls a carnal , and the other a spiritual sabbath ; the former lay in a strict abistnence from labour , but the other in prayer , and devotion , and spiritual contemplations . the iewish rest , he saith , was inutile , 〈◊〉 , & luxuriosum . for the 〈…〉 ●llowed recreations and sports on their sabbaths ; vacant ab opere bono , saith he , non ab opere nugatorio . vacant ad nugas , saith s. augustin ; but he saith , they had better plow or dig , than dance on that day , or sit in the theater . and he tells us , that the heathens objected against the iews , that they spent one day in the week in idleness . for they supposed the bare rest to be the sanctification of the day which was commanded ; and the spending any part of it in the publick worship , to be voluntary devotion . but the better sort of the iews thought the rest was appointed for the knowledge of the law , and spiritual imployments . so philo , iosephus , aben-ezra , kimchi , and menasseh ben israel . it seems most reasonable in this case to distinguish between the legal rest strictly required by the fourth commandment , and the original rest in remembrance of god's resting from the work of creation . the former was a sign between god and the people of israel , as it is often called in scripture ; and the other was a commemorative sign , but such as excited them to the worship of the creator ; and therefore the patriarchal sabbath , as bede observes , was of a spiritual nature . and such a spiritual sabbath , as s. augustin calls it , ought to be observed by christians in the duties of god's worship , as well as in spiritual and holy thoughts . but the iewish sabbath , he often-saith , doth not oblige christians . i the rather mention him , because bede followed his doctrine herein ; and that of gregory i. who was the great instrument of promoting the conversion of our ancestors to christianity . and he declares himself fully , both as to the cessation of the iewish sabbath , and the religious observation of the lord's day . it seems there were some then , as there are among us now , who were for the strict observation of the saturday-sabbath . but gregory saith , they might as well insist upon circumcision and sacrifices , as the iewish sabbath . but yet he adds , we ought on the lord's day to abstain from worldly imployments , and devote our selves unto prayers , that we may make some amends for the weeks negligence , by the devotions on that day . and this devoting the lord's day to the service of god , is entred into the body of the canon law ; and taken out of ivo , and by him from the canons of the gallican church , as appears by several councils . our lyndwood mentions that canon as in force here , die dominicâ nihil aliud agendum , nisi deo vacandum . and he takes some pains to explain it , by distinguishing , . works servile materially and formally , as plowing , sowing , markets , law-days , &c. these are generally forbidden . . acts spiritual materially and finally , as all acts of piety and devotion , and these we ought to attend upon with care and diligence . . acts not servile in themselves , but done for a servile end , as studies and designs for gain . . acts servile in themselves , but not so in their end ; as the man's taking up his couch on the sabbath-day , whom christ cured . he affirms , that there is a moral part in the fourth commandment , which , he saith , is a spiritual rest , or a time set apart for god's service : which he takes from aquinas , who saith the substance of the command is moral ; but he doth not make it to be one day in seven , but some determinate time , which , he saith , the church may appoint ; but then it must be imployed in the service of god ( vacare rebus divinis ) as things were said to be sanctified under the law , which were applied to god's service . but notwithstanding this judgment of aquinas , some great men in the church of rome have thought one day in seven , moral ; and that the proportion which god himself had appointed , cannot be lessened . for altho' mankind could not by natural reason find out the proportion , yet being once revealed , it doth not cease to oblige , unless something figurative and symbolical , or peculiar to the iewish nation be discovered in it . bellarmin makes that the reason of the institution of the lord's day , because god's law required that one day in seven should be set apart for the worship of god ; but the apostles thought it not fit to observe the iewish sabbath , and therefore changed it into the lord's day . covarruvias saith , that all divines agree with aquinas , that there is something moral in the fourth command , which continues to oblige ; and that the lord's day is of divine institution . and to him the roman editors of the canon law referr , as to this matter . azorius confesseth , that the observation of the lord's day hath something of the divine and natural law in it , which requires one day in a week should be consecrated to the service of god , and that it is most agreeable to reason . and he adds , that panormitan , sylvester , and other canonists held the lord's day to be of divine institution . suarez saith , that the church doth observe one day in seven by virtue of the divine law ; that proportion being so agreeable to natural reason , that it cannot be altered . thomas waldensis , who lived here in the time of h. . observes , that even then there were two extreams in mens opinions about the observation of the lord's day ; some allowed no kind of work , and others , any . but he shews , that the law of nature requires some solemn days for divine worship ; and that then there ought to be a rest from other labours , because they hinder the mind from that attention necessary to the service of god : and necessary works are left to a few , that others may be more at liberty . in the saxon laws we find many against the profanation of the lord's day by slavish imployments , by markets and trading , by folkmotes and law-suits , &c. so that great care was taken then , that the lord's day should be duly observed . after the norman times , we have several constitutions to inforce the strict observation of the lord's day . in the time of h. . hubert de burgo saith , that custom may derogate from other holy-days , but not from the lord's day ; because they are not commanded by god , as that is . since the reformation our book of homilies goes upon the same grounds which were used in the saxon times , viz. that the iewish sabbath doth not oblige us ; but however to observe the like proportion of time , and devote it to the service of god. mr. hooker saith , that we are to account the sanctification of one day in seven a duty which god's immutable law doth exact for ever . but what is meant by this sanctification of one day in seven ? if it be understood according to the old canons , it will fill scrupulous minds with more doubts and fears about the right observation of it . origen saith , the observation of the christian sabbath lies in these things ; . a forbearance of worldly business . . attendance on the publick worship . . divine meditation on things invisible and future . haec est observatio sabbati christiani . and in another place , he requires besides publick worship , private meditation and reading the holy scriptures . s. chrysostom insists very much upon the same in several places , and on different occasions . and altho' it be in his popular sermons , yet he would certainly not put them upon any thing , but what he thought very fit to be done . and they must have a mean opinion of him , who think his eloquence carried him too far in this matter . i shall conclude with the opinion of lyndwood , a learned and judicious canonist ; and he observes a threefold sanctification of the lord's day . . by abstinence from sin , which is necessary at all times . . by abstinence from such bodily labours as hinder the mind's attendance upon god's service . . by the whole imployment of our minds in divine matters ; and this he calls the perfect observation of it . these things i have the more largely insisted upon , to shew , that the religious observation of the lord's day , is no novelty started by some late sects and parties among us , but that it hath been the general sense of the best part of the christian world , and is particularly inforced upon us of the church of england , not only by the homilies , but by the most ancient ecclesiastical law among us . but this is not all , for the ancient as well as modern canons require the observation of holy-days likewise . the canons of egbert require not only prayers , but preaching then , can. . . the council of cloveshoo , can. . distinguishes the holy-days relating to our saviour , from the rest ; and saith , they are to be observed in a solemn and uniform manner , and the rest according to the roman martyrology ; which , i suppose , were those repeated then in the diptychs of the church ; which custom continued longer at rome , than in other churches ; but it was generally disused before the time of charles the great . the custom in rome , in gregory's time , was to observe the saints days with the solemn service at one church , as appears by his homilies on the evangelists , which were many of them preached on those occasions ; as of s. felicitas , hom . s. agnes , hom. , . s. felix , hom. . s. pancrace , hom. . &c. and of others who were roman martyrs ; and therefore had a particular solemnity appointed for them . but as to other saints days , it appears by the antiphonarius and sacramentary of gregory i. that they had particular anthems and collects proper for them in the offices of the day ; but i do not find that the generality of the people were so strictly tied up , when the offices were over , as they were on the lord's days , and the greater festivals relating to our saviour . in the council of cloveshoo , can. . i observe , that the natalitia sanctorum , i.e. the anniversary saints days , were observed with particular psalmody and anthems ; and can. . the days of gregory and augustin , the two great instruments of converting the nation , were only to be kept as holy-days by the clergy , without any particular obligation on all the people . so that the holy-days of strict observation then , seem to have been no other than those which relate to our saviour , called dominicae dispensationis in carne festivitates ; the rest had some proper offices which were performed on their days ; but the people were to attend them , as well as they could ; but after there was not this strictness required , as upon the greater holy-days ; and as it was in the church of rome afterwards , when they made the obligation of conscience to extend to all holy-days appointed by the church . but it is observable , ( . ) that this obligation is taken from those canons which mention only the lord's day , as appears by bellarmin . ( . ) that they kept up the distinction of greater and lesser holy-days . ( . ) that they allow the bishop to dispense , as to some works on holy-days . lyndwood observes , that the abstinence from work is not alike , but as the church hath required it ; and that if a bishop's licence cannot be had , a less will serve . our church , can. . requires holy-days to be observed with works of piety , charity , and sobriety ; but gives no rule as to abstinence from works , or the strict obligation of conscience . . i now come to the particular duties of the clergy on the days which are solemnly devoted to the service of god. . the constant and devout attendance upon , and solemn reading the prayers of the church , as they are appointed . in the old saxon canons the presbyters are required to officiate constantly at prayers in their churches ; so in the council at cloveshoo ; can. . the canons of egbert , can. . canons of edgar , can. . but how if the people will not come to the prayers ? you ought , what lies in you , to remove the causes of such neglect ; which arises generally from these things ; either a gross stupidity and regardlesness of religion , which is too common in the world , or from prejudice and principles of education , or the interest of a party ; or from not reading the prayers with that attention and devotion which is fit to raise an esteem of them . the other two , you ought to do what you can to remove ; but this is your own fault if you do it not . we are not to please the fancies of people by an affected variety of expressions in prayers ; but we ought to do what we can to excite their affections , which is done as much by the due manner of reading , as by figures in speaking . and the people are uneasie at staying , when they see the minister read them so fast , as though he minded nothing so much as to be at the end of them ; or when he mangles them so , as if he had a mind to make the people out of love with them . . the next duty is preaching ; and truly that need to be looked after , when the esteem of our profession depends so much upon it . we have none of those methods which those on both sides make so much use of ; we can neither comply with the people in gestures , and phrases , and enthusiastick heats , nor with the superstitious devotions and priest-craft of others . of all churches ours hath the least reason to be charged with it , since they let go so many advantages over the people by the reformation . thanks be to god , we have scripture , and reason , and antiquity of our side ; but these are dry and insipid things to the common people , unless some arts be used to recommend them . but since our main support lies in the honesty and justice of our cause , without tricks and devices , we ought to look very well to that part of our profession which keeps up any reputation among the people ; and that is preaching . those who are so weak or lazy , as to be glad to have that laid aside too , in a great measure , never well considered the design of our profession , or the way to support it . it 's true , for some time preaching was an extraordinary thing in the church ; and none but great and eloquent men of authority in the church were permitted to preach , and the greatest bishops were then the preachers , as appears by the sermons of s. ambrose , s. chrysostom , s. augustin , &c. and even some of the bishops of rome , whatever sozomen saith , were frequent preachers , as appears by gregory's homilies on ezekiel and the gospels . and if it were not then practised he did very ill to complain of the burden of it , and the danger of neglecting it . but in other churches while the bishop and the presbyters lived together , before parochial cures were settled , the presbyters had no constant office of preaching , but as the bishops appointed them occasionally . but afterwards , when the presbyters were fixed in their cures , they were required to be very diligent and careful in preaching , or instructing the people committed to their charge , as may be seen in many early canons of the gallican church ; and so it was here in england : council of cloveshoo , c. . . egbert , can. . and that not only in the moving way in the pulpit , but in the familiar and instructing way , which we call catechizing ; concil . cloveshoo , c. . can. egbert . . both ought to be done , because they are both very useful . the principles and foundations of religion must be well laid , to make the people have any taste or relish of preaching ; otherwise it is like reading mathematicks to those who understand not numbers or figures . erasmus observes , that the sense of religion grows very cold without preaching ; and that the countess of richmond , mother to h. . had such a sense of the necessity of it in those times , that she maintained many preachers at her own charges , and imployed bishop fisher to find out the best qualified for it . and since the reformation the church of rome hath been more sensible of the necessity of it , as appears by the council of trent . cardinal borromeo , one of the most celebrated saints since that time , frequently insists upon it , gives directions about it , and speaks of it as a thing , which tends very much to the glory of god , and the salvation of souls . and to the same purpose other great men among them , as cardinal palaeotus , godeau , bordenave , and others . would it not then be a great shame for us , who pretend to a zeal for reformation and the true religion , to neglect or lessen the reputation of those things which our adversaries have learnt from us , and glory in them ; and those are diligence in preaching and catechizing ? which none can despise who value religion , none can neglect who have any regard to the interest or honour of their profession . . the next duty is the solemn administration of the sacraments , which ought to be done in the publick assemblies , where there is not a great reason to the contrary . the saxon canons are express , that baptism , unless in case of necessity , should be administred only in due times and places , egber . can. , . while the ancient discipline was kept up , and baptism only celebrated at the great festivals , there was a necessity of its being publick ; and the catechumens underwent several scrutinies , which lasted several days in the face of the church , as s. augustin observes , after they had been kept under private examination for some time before . but when whole nations were not only converted , but infants generally baptized , the former method of discipline was changed . but yet the church retained her right as to satisfaction about the due admission of her members . and that is the true reason why , after private baptism , the child is required to be brought to the publick congregation . for baptism is not intended to be done before a select number of witnesses , but in the face of the church , which is the regular and solemn way ; however , the bishop may dispense in some particular cases , which he judges reasonable . at first baptism was administred publickly , as occasion served , by rivers ; as bede saith , paulinus baptized many in the rivers , before oratories or churches were built . afterwards the baptistery was built at the entrance of the church , or very near it ; which is mentioned by athanasius , s. chrysostom , s. ambrose , s. augustin , &c. the baptistery then had a large bason in it , which held the persons to be baptized , and they went down by steps into it . afterwards when immersion came to be disused , fonts were set up at the entrance of churches : but still the place was publick . but in case of necessity there is a form prescribed ; and i do not see how any , without leave , can use the form of publick baptism in private houses ; which is against both our ancient and modern canons . in the greek church it is deprivation to do it ; and the synod under photius confirms it , both as to the eucharist and baptism , because publick order is to be preserved . but it is there understood to be done in opposition to the bishop's authority , whose consent may make the case different , if they judge it reasonable . but ministerial officers are not judges in an equitable case against a standing rule . . another duty of the parochial clergy is , to be able and ready to resolve penitential cases , which relate to the internal court of conscience , and not the external and judiciary court , which respects the honour of the church , as to scandalous offences committed by the members of it . and this takes in the private and occasional duties of the parochial clergy ; for they ought to inform themselves of the spiritual condition of their people , that they may be able to give suitable advice and directions to them both in health and sickness : but chiefly to be able to give them safe and seasonable advice under troubles of conscience by reason of wilful sins . duarenus , a very considerable lawyer , thinks the main business of the clergy , as to the cure of souls , lies in the power of binding and loosing , i. e. in dealing aright with the consciences of men , as to the guilt of their sins . and the rules of the penitential court , are different from those of the ecclesiastical court , as well as the end is different . in the saxon times , there were both here . there were ecclesiastical law which related to judicial cases , wherein a publick penance was injoyned in order to the churches satisfaction . but there were many cases which were not publick , and yet great care was to be used , as to the direction of penitents , as appears by the penitentials of theodore and bede in the saxon times . whereby we learn that a difference was to be observed , as to the nature of offences , and the circumstances of persons and actions , and the measure of contrition ; and the particular method is set down in the penitential books , which was in very material circumstances different from the methods used in the church of rome . but it is a thing necessary for every parochial minister to be able to settle doubting consciences , and to put them into the best methods of avoiding sin for the future , without which the absolution of the priest signifies nothing . for where god doth not absolve , the church cannot . . giving a good example to the people committed to your charge . this is often mentioned in the saxon canons : council at cloveshoo , c. . canons of egbert , , , , , . in the laws of alfred , c. . of edward c. . constit. of odo , c. , . of edgar , , , , , , . of canutus , c. . and in the conclusion of one collection of his laws are these words , happy is that shepherd , who by his good life and doctrine leads his flock to eternal and heavenly ioys ; and happy is that flock that follows such a shepherd , who hath rescued them out of the devil's hands , and put them into god's . . lastly the performance of all these duties supposes a constant residence among your people ; without which it is impossible to discharge them in such a manner , as to give them and your selves full satisfaction . this , i am sensible , is a very nice and tender point ; and the difficulties of it do arise from these things : on one side it is said , . that there is an allowance by the law given to several persons to hold more benefices than one ; and since the distribution of benefices is not by the law of god , but by the law of the land , what fault is there in making use of the privileges which the law gives ? but there cannot be constant residence in more places than one . . that the general service of the church is more to be preferred than taking care of a particular parish ; because the necessary duties of a parish may be supplied by persons approved by the bishop , and a single living seldom affords a sufficient competency for persons to be capable of publick service . . that the way of subsistence for the clergy , is now much altered from what it was when celibacy was enjoyned . for a competency was always supposed where residence was strictly required ; and what was a competency to a single person , is not so to a family . . that the church hath a power of relaxing the severity of ancient canons from the different circumstances of things ; and when the general good of the church may be more promoted therein ; as in the removal of clergymen from one diocess to another , and the translation of bishops . . that the case is now very different , as to dispensations , from what it was in the church of rome , as to the number of benefices , and the manner of obtaining them ; that a great restraint is laid by our laws upon pluralities , and our own metropolitan is the judge when they are fit to be granted . but on the other side it is objected , . that in the first constitution of parochial churches , every incumbent was bound to a strict residence ; so in the canons of egbert , can. . presbyters are said to be settled in those churches , which had a house and glebe belonging to them ; and many canons were then expresly made , that no person should have more than one church ; and it is said in the capitulars , that this had been several times decreed . and so it is in herardus his collection of canons , can. . in isaac lingonensis , tit. . c. . in chrodegangus , c. . in ivo carnotensis , part . . c. . in regino , l. . c. . the like we find in the spanish churches , concil . tolet. . c. . and thence in the canon●law , c. . q. . c. . and in the greek churches , concil . . can. . c. . q. . c. . and as soon as the abuse crept in in these western churches , it was complained of , and endeavoured to be redressed , concil . paris . . c. . concil . aquisgran . . part . . c. . concil . metens . c. . that afterwards , not meerly the mendicant friars complained of them , as some have suggested , but some of the greatest bishops have been zealous against them , as gulielmus parisiensis , peraldus , archbishop of lions , iacobus de vitriaco bishop of acon , robert de c●orton cardinal ; guiard bishop of cambray ; and gregory ix . declared , that he could only dispense with the penalty of the law. after a solemn disputation at paris , it was determined against pluralities , if one benefice be sufficient ; and all the divines joyned with the bishop therein , except two ; so that it seemed to be the current opinion of the learned and pious men of that time. aquinas saith , it is a doubtful point , but cajetan is positive against them . so that all the zeal against pluralities , is not to be imputed to the piques of the friars against the secular clergy ; although there is no question but they were so much the more earnest in it ; but in the council of trent the bishops of spain were the most zealous , as to the point of residence , and the friars against it , as appears by catharinus and others . . setting aside all authorities , the argument in point of conscience , seems the strongest against non-residence ; because persons have voluntarily undertaken the cure of souls within such limits ; and although the bounds be fixed by human authority , yet since he hath undertaken such a charge personally , knowing those bounds , it lies upon his conscience to discharge the duties incumbent upon him , which cannot be done without constant residence , as the magistrates are bound in conscience to do their duty , although the bounds are settled by human laws : and so in the case of property , human laws bind so that it is a sin to invade what is settled by them . and if it be left to a man's conscience , whether a man answers his obligation more by personal attendance , or by a curate ; whether the honour of religion , and the good of souls be more promoted , and the peace of his own mind secured by one or the other , it is no hard matter to judge on which side it must go . it is impossible to defend all the arguments used in the old canons against pluralities , as that polygamy is unlawful under the gospel : so that , as a bishop hath but one city , and a man but one wife , so a presbyter ought to have but one church : that no man can serve two masters , &c. but all their reasons were not of this sort . for , the council of toledo speaks home , that one man cannot perform his duty to more than one charge . to the same purpose the sixth council at paris ; and withal , that it brings a scandal on the christian church , and an hinderance to publick worship , and the good of souls , and savours too much of a worldly mind ; which are weighty arguments . the only considerable thing on the other side , is , that the bishops are to take care that the places be duly supplied ; but whether it be done by parson , vicar or curate , is not material . but this will not hold . for , ( . ) the care of souls is committed personally to him that doth undertake it . and a regard is had to the qualifications of the person for such a trust , by the patron that presents , and the bishop who admits and institutes the person so qualified . ( . ) the old canons were very strict as to personal residence , so as to fix them in their cures from which they could not go away when they pleased , which they called promissionem stabilitatis . our saxon canons are clear , as to the personal cure , can. egbert . . , . populo sibi commisso ; and no presbyter could leave his cure and go to another only for honour or profit , can. . and none could go from one bishop to another , without his diocesan's leave , concil . herudford . c. . egbert . de eccles. instit. p. , . and when the bishop gives institution , he commits the care of souls to the incumbent , and not meerly the care that divine offices be there performed . but yet it is well observed by aquinas , that if the having more benefices than one were a thing evil in it self , it could in no case be dispensed with ; but there are some actions which in general are irregular , yet in some cases may be justified ; especially , if they be extraordinary , as to publick service and usefulness , &c. and to the same purpose cajetan speaks ; but he saith , the cases that make it lawful , must relate to a publick , and not a private good ; but he mentions these things which excuse from residence ; . lawful impediments , as to health , &c. . publick service . and others say , a geometrical proportion ought to be observed in the distribution of ecclesiastical benefices , and not an arithmetical , i. e. a regard ought to be had to the merits and capacities of persons ; as a commander hath more pay than many common souldiers ; but this reaches only to the value , and not to the number of benefices . but the question still remains , whether a legal dispensation take not off the obligation in point of conscience , since it is allowed by law , and the curate appointed by the bishop , who committed the cure of souls to him ? in answer to this , we must consider , . that the law proposes in dispensations very allowable ends , as publick service , incouragement of learning , reward of merit ; and therefore doctors by favour have not the privilege which others have ; and in case of incompetency , as it was then judged , no legal dispensation was needful . . some ancient canons took care of the supply of the place by competent persons , and in that case abated the rigour of the canon . for sirmondus saith in the canon of the council of nantz , against pluralities , this clause was added , unless he hath presbyters under him to supply the duties of his place : and the same clause is in regino , l. . c. . and regino puts it among the articles of enquiry , as to the clergy , if any had more churches than one without presbyters to assist him . and in their old admonition to them at visitations it is to the same purpose , but in others it is left out . thomassin is of opinion , that the former enquiry related to those who had chapels , and not to more churches ; because then there were none that had titles upon anothers benefice ; but these words are express as to more churches . it 's true , there were no such titles then ; for a title in the old canon law , was the relation which a clergyman stood in to the bishop of his diocess , being one of his clergy ; and so the greek canonists understand a man 's not being ordained without a title , and not having two churches ; i. e. not to have relation to two diocesses , and so sine titulo , is without being owned by some bishop ; and this was that which they thought ought to be strictly observed ; and to which purpose many canons were made , both ancient and later ; and if any deserted their bishop , they were liable to deprivation . afterwards the word , title , came to be applied to parochial churches ; but there were some who found out , that the ancient canons had another sense . thence in the council of placentia in the canon sanctorum dist. . c. . it was decreed , that one might have two churches in the same diocess , but not two preferments in several cathedrals . and in the council of clermont , a. d. . the reason is given , because according to the canons no man could have-two titles ; and every one was bound to hold to the title to which he was first ordained . but after all , the council of nantz shews plainly , that more parochial titles were then allowed , if well provided for , by such persons as the bishop of the diocess approved . now this very much alters the state of the case ; for then the obligation is real , and not personal . . it was agreed by the ancient canons , that where there was an incompetency of maintenance , they allowed an union for support ; now that is but the bishop's act in joyning what had been divided , supposing a sufficient subsistence : and a reasonable distance with the bishop's allowance , hath the same equity ; i.e. the bishop's act may unite two small benefices for a support , not by a perpetual union , but so long as he sees cause , which our law doth still allow , under such a value . but it is rather a dispensation than an union ; for the rights continue distinct . in the court of rome there were prerogative unions ad vitam , which were very scandalous , and are owned by the best canonists to be destructive of all order , and invented to defeat the canons against pluralities . but the unions which the law allows , are only those where two distinct benefices are made one for a competent subsistence ; and then if the union be reasonable , the dispensation within due distance is so too . balsamon saith , in the greek church pluralities are not forbidden , if they be near , and under the same bishop ; but they did not allow the same man to be under two bishops . in the capitulars that clause is added , that no man shall have more livings than one , si facultas suppetit , if it affords a reasonable subsistence . and therefore in case of incompetency of maintenance , of a good provision for curates , and of publick service , the severity of the ancient canons is with reason abated , and a person is supposed to undertake the cure , with those measures which the law and canons allow . but every man who regards the doing his duty out of conscience , will consider how much lies upon himself ; and that the original intention of the church and laws , was , that no man should undertake more than he was willing and ready to discharge , as far as one man's abilities could go . for , in great cities , one great parish requires more than several churches in the countrey ; and in such cases an equitable construction must be put upon such canons , which require personal performance of these duties . of the maintenance of the parochial clergy , by law . the subject i intend now to consider , is the incouragement which the parochial clergy have by law for the doing their duties : which are the manse , the oblations , and the tithes . i. the manse , or house and glebe . in the canons of egbert it is said , can. . that an entire manse ought to belong to every church , without any other than ecclesiastical service . by a manse , mr. selden saith , in the old charters the same is meant as a casat or hyde of land. bignonius and sirmondus say , so much glebe as was an imployment for an husbandman and two servants . spelman saith , it takes in the house too . lyndwood saith , as much land as would imploy a yoke of oxen ; and so the gloss on the canon law. but in another place the gloss saith , the manse is the original endowment of the church , without which it cannot be supplied : and without which it could not be consecrated . for the endowment was first to be produced before the building , collatâ primitùs donatione solemni , are the words of the canon law. and the same appears by concil . valent. . c. . concil . bracar . . c. . vit. udalrici c. . regino l. . c. , . which is there explained to be a substantial sustenance for those who were to attend the service of that church . and in the acts of consecration of a parochial church in baluzius , the bishop in the first place declares himself satisfied with the endowment , unde dignè domus dei sustentaretur . and upon this the original right of patronage was founded , not upon the soil , which gave no title , where there was not a church built and endowed with a competent subsistence . so that all advowsons or rights of presentation in private patrons , were at first appendant to manors , and not in gross ; because the right came from the endowment out of the manor : and the name of patron in the sense of the feudal law , is the same with lord of the fee , and so beneficium is a feudal term ; and till the feudal law prevailed , the name of patrom is rarely used in this sense . and when it came to be used , the patrons in france would have brought those who had their benefices to a kind of feudal service , and to have received investiture from them . this mr. selden drives at , as though the patrons had the right of investiture belonging to them , because some such practice is often complained of in the french canons , and as often condemned , not meerly by ecclesiastical canons , but by as good laws as any were then made . it cannot be denied that bad practices are the occasion of making good laws ; but doth it follow that those practices which were against law , were the law of that time ? yet this is mr. selden's way of arguing ; he grants , that there were laws made , but they were little obeyed . must we therefore conclude those illegal practices to have been the standing law , and the laws themselves to be illegal ? there were two things aimed at by those patrons . . to keep the clergy in a sole dependance on themselves , witout regard to the bishop's authority . . to make such bargains with them as they thought fit . both these were thought necessary to be redressed by laws , since the canons were slighted by them . and if the practice be good against law in one case , why not in the other also ? why is not simony justified , as well as the patron 's absolute power over the incumbents ? but the laws were severe against both . for in the time of lud. pius , a. d. . there was a solemn assembly of the estates of the empire , where several ecclesiastical laws were passed , and among the rest , these two : . that no presbyters should be put in , or put out of churches , without the authority and consent of the bishops ; and that the bishops should not refuse those who were presented , if they were probabilis vitae & doctrinae , i.e. such as the bishops could not object against either for life or learning . . that every church should have an entire manse belonging to it , free from any feudal service ; but if they had other estates of their own , for them they were to answer to the lords of the manor , as others did . and from hence this came into the collections of ivo , regino , burchardus , and gratian , and passed for a law generally received . as to the former , a new sanction was added to it in another assembly at worms , a. d. . c. . and repeated in the capitulars , l. . c. . addit . . c. . and the like as to the latter , l. . c. . capit. a. . c. . but it seems there were some still continued obstinate in their former practices , and therefore these laws were reinforced in another assembly , a. d. . in the time of carolus calvus , who mentions the laws of his father and grandfather to the same purpose , c. . and there takes notice of the contrivances made use of to defeat the intention of those laws ; and the bottom of all is there said to be abominable simony . which shews , what it was which these patrons aimed at , by claiming investiture without the bishop . and it was then judged necessary , that the bishop's consent was required to prevent this mischief . but still some patrons required feudal service for the glebe they had given to the church ; but the law commands them to restore it free from such service , capit l. . c. . addit . l. . c. , . and after much struggling , hinomarus , who lived at that time , saith , that these laws were observed . the patron 's right by virtue of the endowment , was not disputed ; but an arbitrary power , as to the incumbents , was utterly denied them ; and they were put under the bishop's care , who was to receive complaints against them , and to proceed according to the churches canons . but i am apt to think that all this stir in france did not arise from the pretence of original donation and endowment of churches , but from the infeodation of church lands and titles , by charles martel ( as an old ms. in filesacus saith ) and others in france , whose custom it was to give them in recompence to their souldiers , who then looked on them as their own , and were hardly brought to any reasonable allowance for the clergy which supplied them . these were called beneficia in the capitulars , and they were to pay nonae & decimae , i.e. a fifth part out of them , which was obtained with much difficulty , as appears by the many laws made about them . in the council at leptins , a.d. . carolomannus , son to charles martel , owns the letting out some of the church lands sub precario & censu , upon a reserved rent , can. . capit. l. . c. . but then it was barely for life . but the consequence was , that it was very hard to recover either the lands or the reserved rents , and they put in clergy-men , and put them out as they pleased , because they held these lands as beneficiary tenures from the crown . so that it was the work of more than an age to put the church there in any tolerable condition . but this seems to be very much mistaken , when it is brought to prove the right of patronage from the endowment , as to the disposal of benefices . but the right of patronage by the first building and endowing the church , is owned by the civil law in iustinian's novels , . c. . and two things were there required ; . a sufficient maintenance for the clergy who were nominated . . the bishop's satisfaction as to their fitness ; about which he speaks in another novel , . tit. . c. . and he elsewhere requires , that before any churches were built , the bishop should see that there were sufficient maintenance for those who were to officiate , novel , . tit. . the same right obtained here upon the same grounds , as appears by the barons answer to gregory ix . who affirm , that they had it ever since christianity was founded here . they mean , ever since parochial churches were endowed by their ancestors ; for there could be no such right of patronage before . and such patrons were here called advocati ecclesiae , as appears by ioh. sarisbur . ep. . . and the ius advocationis , as our lawyers tell us , is a right which a person hath to present to a vacant benefice in his own name ; which is agreeable to what bracton and fleta had said long before . but it doth not appear by them how the names of patron and advocate came to be so applied . among the romans , saith asconius pedianus , the patron was he that pleaded the cause of another ; the advocate , he that appeared in court on his behalf . but this doth not reach to the ius advocationis which we are now about . in the ninety seventh canon of the african code , an allowance is made for the churches to have advocates to solicite their causes at court. from hence the greater churches and monasteries had their proper advocates appointed them by the king , as bignonius observes ; and in the old charters of aub. miraeus , several such advocates are appointed ; and it appears to have been an honorary title , and great men were pleased with it . miraeus faith , it was accounted a considerable honour at that time . and so by degrees the founders of parochial churches came to have the title of patrons and advocates of them ; and the right they injoyed , the right of advowson as well as patronage ( not as some ridiculously talk of advocat se , or advocat alium ) because the trust and care of those churches , endowed by their ancestors , was fallen to them , and they were bound to look after , and to defend the rights of them ; and so lyndwood explains it . ii. the next thing to be considered , is the oblations of the people , which in those elder times were so free and large , that ( which may seem incredible now ) there were persons who would build churches on their own land to have a share in the oblations , as is affirmed in one of the spanish councils , and there forbidden with great severity . it was not , as the gloss on the canon law understands it , to make a bargain for the right of patronage , but it is expressed to have an equal share with the clergy in the oblations of the people . it is observed by agabardus , that the devotion of persons in the first ages was so great , that there was no need to make laws or canons for the supplies of churches , since they were so amply provided for by the liberality of the people . thence we read of the deposita pietatis in tertullian , which were voluntary oblations ; and out of which were made divisiones mensurnae in s. cyprian , and the sportulae , which were the allowances made to the clergy out of the common stock ; and they who received them , and not those who gave them ( as mr. selden fancies ) were called sportulantes fratres ; and the allowances were then stiled stipes & oblationes , which were so considerable , that st. cyprian blamed some for their setting their hearts too much upon them ; stipes , oblationes , lucra desiderant , quibus prius insatiabiles incubabant ; which could not be said of any meer necessary subsistence ; these they received tanquam decimas ex fructibus , as st. cyprian speaks , in lieu of tithes at that time , when the most of the christian church inhabited the cities , and gave out of their stock to maintain the church , and those who attended upon the service of it . but when christianity came to spread into the countries , then a more fixed and settled maintenance was required , but so as to retain somewhat of the ancient custom in voluntary oblations . no sooner was christianity settled in france , but we read of lands given to the church by clodovaeus after his conversion ; these are owned by the first council of orleans called in his time , a. d. . and were put into the bishop's hands , and to be distributed by him for repairs of churches , maintenance of the clergy , and other pious uses , can. . , . but besides these , we read still of oblations made by the people on the altar , both in the mother-church , and in parochial churches . if in the mother-church one moiety went to the bishop , the other to the clergy ; if in the other , only the third part to the bishop . in the second council of mascon , can. . we find it required , that all the people make an oblation of bread and wine at the altar ; and this was a. d. . but besides , the next canon insists on the payment of tithes , as founded on the law of god , and the ancient custom of the church , which is thereby reinforced ; unde statuimus & decernimus ut mos antiquus reparetur ; which words are not fairly left out by mr. selden , because they shew that there was only in this canon a renewing of an ancient custom , which had obtained , but was now growing into disuse . for this council of mascon was called on purpose to restore what they found too much declining , as to religion ; and they begin with the observation of the lord's day , and after , add this , wherein they complain of the neglect of that which their predecessors observed , as founded on the law of god. so that there can be no doubt of the custom of paying tithes in france , from the time of receiving christianity ; and that this custom declined as their religion did . in the council of nantz , about a. d. . oblations and tithes are mentioned together , c. . as making up the churches stock , which was to be divided into four parts , to the bishop , and to the clergy , and to repairs , and to the poor . but besides the oblations of the living , it was then common to make oblations at their death ; and these were called oblationes defunctorum , and severe canons were made against the detainers of them , concil . vas. i. c. . agath . c. , . q. , , , . and so much appears by those canons which forbid exactions at funerals , concil . tribur . c. . nannet . c. . where an exception is made as to voluntary gifts , either by the parties deceased , or by the executors . but here , in the saxon times there was a funeral duty to be paid , called pecunia sepulchralis & symbolum animae , and a saxon soul-shot ; this is required by the council at aenham , and inforced by the laws of canutus , c. . and was due to the church the party deceased belonged to , whether he were there buried or not . some take this for the foundation of mortuaries ; but then the money must be turned into goods . for in glanvil's time , a freeholder is allowed to make his will of other things , provided that he give his first best thing to his lord , and his second to the church . and this was not originally pro animâ defuncti , as lyndwood thinks , from the modern canonists de consecrat . c. . but it was a right of the church settled on the decease of a member of it , as appears by the law of canutus . others have said , that it was in lieu of tithes substracted , and oblations not duly made . so simon langham in his constitution about mortuaries , which was made to explain a former constitution of robert winchelsee , because the people were observed not to pay their tithes and oblations as they ought . but he did not go about to settle a right which had not been before , but to prevent suits about that which was to be taken for a mortuary ; and he declares , that where there was a choice of three or more , the second was to be for the mortuary , de sepult . f. . b. so that r. winchelsee supposes it to be an ancient right . indeed in the cotton ms. of the council of merton , where this constitution is extant , the reason is given , that it was required by way of compensation for the neglect of tithes and oblations . in the synod of winchester , in his time , a constitution is made for the uniform payment of mortuaries in that diocess , the second best of the goods or chattels was to be paid in lieu of tithes unpaid . in the synod of exeter of pet. quivil , e. . the reason is given for the neglect of all parochial duties ; but there it is said , that some pleaded custom against the payment of them , and others , as to the manner ; and although this council endeavoured to settle an uniform payment , yet the statute of circumspectè agatis , leaves the whole matter to custom , ubi mortuarium dari consuevit . from whence my lord coke inferrs , that there is no mortuary due by law , but only by custom . the true inference was , that the contrary custom had altered the law from what it was in the times of canutus and glanvil . but that the prevailing custom became the standing law , as to mortuaries , appears by the statute of h. . c. . which limits the payment where the custom continued , but allows liberty for free oblations : and this free oblation was then called cors presentè , and was distinct from the mortuary in lieu of tithes , as appears by the instances in sir w. dugdale . but i return to other oblations , which lyndwood distinguisheth into those by way of gift , and such as became due . for these latter , he insists on c. omnis christianus in the canon law , de consecr . d. . c. . which requires that every one who approaches the altar , make some oblation . where the gloss saith , it is but counsel at other times , but a command on the festivals . for this q. . c. . is produced , quas populus dare debet ; but it is there interpreted of the case of necessity : hostiensis thinks all are obliged on great festivals , and that the general custom lays an obligation ; but lyndwood thinks the custom of particular churches is to be observed . in the synod of exter before-mentioned , oblations are said to be of divine right , and that every parishioner is obliged to make them ; but the time is limited to christmas , easter , the saints-day of the church and the dedication , or all-saints . so that four times in the year they were required to make oblations after the age of fourteen . and so giles , bishop of sarum , debent offerre ex debito quater in anno . in the synod of winchester , none were so obliged till eighteen , and having goods of their own . but i observe , that in the ancient canons here , by the oblations , such things were then understood , as were for the support of the clergy : thence several canons were made against those who turned them another way . so in the council of london under archbishop stratford , oblations are declared to belong only to ecclesiastical persons . and so lyndwood saith , the goods of the church are called oblations . and in case the mother-church were appropriated , the oblations and obventions made in the chapel of ease , did not belong to the convent , but to the persons who officiated there . these were called by the name of the altarage , and were generally expressed under that name in the endowment of vicarages ; but when these were too small for the maintenance of the vicar , those small tithes which were joyned with them , were comprehended under that name ; and so it hath been resolved in the courts of law upon a solemn hearing . iohn de burgo , in his pupilla oculi , speaking of oblations , saith , that persons may be bound to them four ways : . by contract upon the foundation of the church , which amounts only to a pension upon endowment . . by promise either living or dying . . by necessity , when the parochial minister cannot be supported without it . . by custom , in the greater solemnities ; but he saith , the proportion and kind are left to discretion ; which made oblations sink so low , that the parochial clergy must have starved , if they had nothing else to support them . but besides these , he mentions occasional oblations upon particular services , as at marriages , christenings , funerals , &c. concerning which we have several constitutions against those who went about to hinder them , or to reduce them to a small quantity . the easter-offerings are none of these voluntary oblations , but a composition for personal tithes payable at that time ; of which i may have occasion to speak more afterwards . but in the saxon times here were other sorts of oblations ; as ( ) the cyrycsceat or first-fruits of corn payable at s. martin's day , ina ll. . . edmund . c. . and is often mentioned in doomsday-book , and in fleta l. . c. . malmsb. l. . c. . and the oblation of poultrey at christmas is mentioned in doomsday , under that title . ( . ) there was here another kind of oblation called plow-alms , which was a peny for every plow between easter and whitsontide . this is mentioned in the laws of king ethelred , and required to be paid fifteen days after easter , although it be called eleemosyna aratralis . in the endowment of the vicarage of s. ives , plow-alms is mentioned besides the altarage and obventions . but all these oblations made a very poor subsistence for the parochial clergy . iii. and therefore i come to the main legal support of the parochial clergy , which is in tithes . concerning which i shall proceed in this method ; i. to consider the foundation in law which they stand upon . ii. the rules of law which are to be observed about them . i. as to the foundation they stand upon in point of law. my lord coke not only saith , that the parochial right of tithes is established by divers acts of parliament ; but he mentions the saxon laws before the conquest for the payment of tithes of edward and gathrun , ethelstan , edmund , edgar , canutus , and king edward ' s , confirmed by william i. hobart saith , that tithes are things of common right , and do of right belong to the church . and since parishes were erected , they are due to the parson ( except in spiritual regular cases ) or vicar of the parish . in the register of writs , a book of great authority , there is a writ of consultation for tithes , wherein they are owned to be of common right , as well as immemorial custom , due to the rector within the limits of his parish . lord chief justice dyer saith , that tithes can never be extinguished , because they are of common right . the same is affirmed by justice dodderidge in the case of fosse and parker . in pieddle and napper's case , tithes are said to be an ecclesiastical inheritance collateral to the estate in land , and of their own nature due to an ecclesiastical person : and , that all lands of common right are to pay tithes . therefore it is said by hobart in slade's case , that no land can be discharged of tithes , although it may be discharged of the actual payment . in popham's reports we read , that it is a maxim in law , that all persons ought to pay tithes , and all lands shall be charged with them of common right . so that if the judgment of some of the greatest men of the profession may be taken , nothing can be more clear and evident than the legal right of tithes . but it falls out unhappily among us , that nothing hath been the occasion of so much difference and contention between the incumbents and their parishioners , than the point of the payment of tithes . so that some have wished them changed into some other way of maintenance ; but i cannot see any reason why so ancient , so legal , so just a maintenance should be changed into any other , which would less answer the end , and be liable to as many difficulties , if not far more ; but every change of this kind , where we cannot be secured of the event , is very dangerous , especially when it proceeds from want of judgment or ill-will to the profession ; both which are to be suspected in this case . if the ill humours of some people could be changed , it would signifie far more to the quiet of the clergy , than altering their legal maintenance . therefore the best way is to enquire into the reasons of this dissatisfaction , that we may find out the proper methods to remove it , and thereby to prevent the troublesom and vexatious suits about them , which make the parochial clergy so uneasie , and their labour often unsuccessful with the people . and there is a twofold dissatisfaction which lies at the bottom of most of these contentions about tithes . . in point of conscience . . in point of law. . in point of conscience . there is a sort of people among us , who are very obstinate in this matter , and will rather chuse to go to prison and lie there , than pay their tithes . i have often thought whence such a stiffness should arise in a matter of legal right . if they had opposed all determinations of property by law , they had been more consistent with themselves ; but to allow the law to determine the right as to nine parts , and not as to the tenth , is not to be reconciled . for if the question be concerning the other parts , to whom they do belong , may not men as well dispute the matter of dominion and property in them ? may they not say , that the seed is our own , and the labour and charges our own ; why then shall i answer to another for the profit which arises from my pains and expence ? if it be replied , that the law hath given the property of the land to one , and the use to another , why may they not pretend this to be an unreasonable law to separate one from the other , since land was given for the use ; and the original right of dominion was from what was necessary for use ; therefore the separating right and use , is an incroachment on the natural rights of mankind . and there seems to be more colour for this , than for any to allow the laws to determine the right of nine parts to belong to the lord of the soil , but the tenth by no means to go that way , which the law of the land hath long since determined it . so that the lord of the soil either by descent or purchase , can claim no right to it ; for neither did his ancestors enjoy it , nor those who sold the land to a purchaser consider it as his own , for then he would have had the value of it . the tenth part then is set aside in valuation of estates , as already disposed of ; and the question is , whether the same law which settled the right to the other , shall determine this likewise ? is it not a part of natural injustice to detain that which by law belongs to another ? and is not the law the measure of right in cases of difference between man and man ; why then should not the law fairly and equally determine this matter , to whom the tenth of the profits belongs ? but still they say , it is against their conscience , and they cannot do it . is it against their conscience to do acts of natural justice , not to detain that from another , which of right belongs to him ? but it is in vain to argue with people , who do not judge of things by the common light of reason and justice , but by an unaccountable light within them , which none can judge of but themselves ; and in matter of interest men are the worst judges in their own case . . therefore i come to those who are capable of being argued with ; such , i mean , who are unsatisfied in the point of law , not in general , but in particular cases , from whence suits arise , and those are often from these causes : . not duly considering the just measure and extent of the rules of law for the payment of tithes . . not attending to the exemptions , or discharges by law from the payment of tithes . the best way i know to prevent troublesome suits about tithes , is to enquire diligently into these two things : . the rules of law for the payment of tithes . one might have justly expected , that in a matter of common right and daily practice , and wherein the peace and quiet of the people is so much concerned , as well as of the clergy , the rules of law should have been plain , and clear , and liable to as few exceptions as possible ; but instead of this , there is not one general rule in this matter , but hath several exceptions ; and different opinions have been about them by the great men of the law , which hath given too much occasion to the multitudes of suits which have been in the matter of tithes ; so that the clergy are not so much to blame , if they are unavoidably involved in suits by the perplexity of the law , and the different resolutions which have been made about the cases reported by them . this i shall make appear by examining some of the most general rules of law , and comparing them with the resolutions which have been made in particular cases . . one of the most standing rules of the law , is , that tithes are only to be paid of things which do annually increase , ex annuatis renovantibus simul & semel . but is this rule allowed in all cases ? . from hence coke concludes , that no tithes are to be paid of minerals , or of what is of the substance of the earth ; and so stone , turff , tinn , lead , coals , chalk , pots of earth , are denied to be titheable . but i find , h. . n. . a petition of the commons was denied about being sued in the ecclesiastical courts for tithes of stone and slat taken out of their quarries . the petition was renewed , h. . and then the king's answer was , that the former custom should continue . and so about tithes for sea-coals , e. . n. . from whence it appears , that these things might be tithed by ancient custom , and that was not thought fit to be altered . but , eliz. it was resolved in the kings-bench , that no tithes are due of quarries of slat or stone , in the case of lysle and wats . here was no regard to custom , and a reason is given , which deserves to be considered , viz. that he may have tithes of the grass or corn which groweth upon the surface of the land where the quarry is . but how if there be none ? as lands where quarries are , seldom afford tithes . but the note on the register saith , that if corn do grow there , tithe of it would be due however . so that here we have a rule against an ancient custom and rule too . but it cannot be denied , that fitz-herbert and brook say , that there is no tithe of quarries , or coals , or such things ; and it was so adjudged , iac. and iac. and in other cases since . and yet after all , rolls yields , that a custom in these cases is to be allowed ; so that the general rule is to be understood so , as there be no custom to the contrary . and as to minerals , it is determined by a late writer , that by custom tithes may be due of them , although they do not annually increase . and my lord coke mentions king iohn's grant to the bishop of exeter of the tithe of his tinn-farm . and a good author assures us , that in places of lead-mines , the tithe of lead is the chief part of the ministers maintenance . therefore my lord coke concludes his discourse of tithes with this general rule , that by custom a parson may have tithes of such things as are not titheable of common right . . from hence it is concluded , that no tithe can be due for houses , because they have no annual increase . this was solemnly debated in dr. grant's case , iac. and that there was no tithe due , was proved by the counsel from the register , fitz. h. n. b. brook , &c. but it was resolved by the court , that although houses of themselves were not titheable , yet there might be a modus decimandi on the ground on which the houses stood , and the houses did not take away the right before ; and in most ancient cities and burroughs there was such a modus for the maintenance of their minister . i grant that there was a certain modus decimandi upon houses , but not upon the account of the ground they stood upon ; but there was a customary duty upon houses in lieu of tithes , and were accounted a sort of praedial tithes , although they were called oblationes de domibus , as lyndwood saith , and were distinct from personal tithes , for the iews were bound to pay tithes of houses , but not personal . such was the rate on houses in london : but in dr. layfield's case it was denied , that there could be a prescription of tithes upon houses , because they are to be paid only for the increase of things . what is now become of the former modus decimandi , when a prescription was here insisted upon and denied ? so that here were different opinions , a special custom was allowed upon good reason ; and here a prescription disallowed upon such a reason as would have overthrown the former custom , and yet the law was the same still . . from hence it would follow , that if this rule hold , things which have not an annual increase would not be titheable : then no tithe of saffron would be due , whose heads are gathered but once in three years , nor of sylva caedua , under twenty years ; and yet this was allowed in parliament at sarum , saith the register , notwithstanding it was not renewed every year . and rolls saith , that tithes shall be paid of beeches , hazle , willows , holly , alder , maple , even after twenty years , because they are not timber . but what if willows be used for timber ? then hobart saith , they ought to be excepted . if young trees grow in a nursery , and be sold , it is allowed that tithes shall be paid of them , and these are not renewed every year . and what becomes now of this general rule , when so many exceptions are made to it ? . if this rule hold , there can be no tithes of after-pasture , for the rule is simul & semel . and my lord coke saith , it was adjudged , iac. that a parson shall not have two tithes of land in one year ; and he instances in the hay and after-pasture , &c. and yet rolls affirms , that it is due by law , unless there be a prescription to the contrary ; and he saith , the iudgment was given upon the prescription . and therefore he resolves it into a modus decimandi . but he mentions several judgments , that no tithe is due for after-pasture , where tithe-hay hath been paid before ; which must be where there was no custom to the contrary , or else he must contradict himself . and so yelverton saith in the case of green and austen , that of common right , tithe-hay discharges the tithe of the after-pasture . but crook saith , that in that case the court went upon the prescription , and allowed it to be good . how could it go upon both ? and sir s. degge is positive , that if a meadow affords two crops , the parson shall have tithe of both . how can these things consist ? or what authority may we rely upon in such difference of opinions ? . another rule in law is , that things which are ferae naturae , are not tithable . but here we are to seek what things are ferae naturae ? whether such things as may be tamed and kept under custody , and become a man's property , are ferae naturae ? is it not felony to steal rabbets or pigeons ? if it be , they must be some man's property ; and if they be a man's proper goods , how can they be said to be ferae naturae ? for the meaning was , that no man was to pay tithes for that which was not his own . are not bees ferae naturae , as much as pigeons and rabbets ? but the tithe of bees is allowed to be paid by the tenth of the honey and wax . but rolls saith , that it was doubted whether a tenth swarm were a good modus for the tithe of bees , because they are ferae naturae . the reason is , because they are left wild , and under no custody ; but if they went into several hives belonging to the proprietor , they might be tithable by the hives . and so for pigeons under custody in a dove-house , they are a man's property , and therefore tithable : as it hath been several times resolved in courts of law , iac. in whately and fanbor's case , in iones and gastrill's case , a prohibition was denied ; and justice dodderidge declared , to whom the court assented , that tithe was due both of young pigeons and conies . but the prevailing opinion hath been , that if they are consumed in the house , they are not tithable , but if sold , they are . but are they not ferae naturae as well when they are sold at market , as when they are eaten at home ? why then are they tithable in one case , and not in the other ? if they are tithable at all , they are so where-ever they are spent ; for in tithing , the nature of the thing is to be considered , and not the place of spending it . for upon the same reason there would be no tithe of corn spent at home , or pigs , calves , &c. and therefore i look on the reason as of worse consequence , than the total denying the payment . for who can tell how far this reason may be carried in other cases ? but it is resolved in many cases , that though they are ferae naturae , yet by custom they may be tithed ; and so for fish. custom it seems hath the power of reducing things ferae naturae to the same condition with other things . but as far as i can find , these things by our old constitutions , were as tithable as other things ; but the notion of their being ferae naturae being started , served as a plea against them , where the custom was not continued ; and where it was beyond all dispute , then they said , they were not tithable in themselves , but only by custom ; or not by law , but by custom ; and yet such customs make a part of our law. in several ancient appropriations , fish , and pigeons , and rabbets are expresly mentioned , as given together with other tithes ; so that in those times both law and custom went together . for the lords of manors were not wont to give tithes which were not otherwise due . . but what is to be done with those lands which might afford tithe , if the increase of grass were suffered but the owners feed cattel upon it , and so there can be no tithes , what remedy doth the law afford in this case ? . it is agreed that no tithe is due , if no other cattel be fed , but such as the owner pays tithe for , or are imployed in plowing , or any other way which is for the benefit of the incumbent of that parish where they are fed . for otherwise they are but as barren cattel to him . . that there is a certain rate due for the agistment of barren cattel , iure communi , and so delivered by hales then chief baron , according to the value of the land , unless custom hath determined otherwise . and so for guest-horses , &c. unless the inn-keeper had paid tithe-hay , say some , or the custom be otherwise : but none for saddle-horses for the use of the owner . one of the judges dissenting , because not intended for husbandry . but for unprofitable cattel the tenth part of the bargain is due , or according to the value of the land , and the owner of the cattel is compellable to pay . . if profitable and unprofitable be mixed , so as the latter be the greater number , then herbage must be paid for them , and tithe in kind for the profitable ; but if the profitable be the greater number , it is questioned whether the other are not excused ; but no law or precedent is produced for it : and there seems to be no reason , if pasturage be due for unprofitable cattel , why they should be excused because there are more profitable , unless their number be inconsiderable . these things i have only briefly touched at , that you may the better govern your selves in disputes of this nature ; and as you are not to lose the just rights of the church , so neither is it for your interest or honour to be engaged in them , where the law will not bear you out . ii. the next thing necessary to be considered , is , the legal discharges from the payment of tithes . for , although the reason of the payment of them be founded on the law of god , and the settlement of tithes among us hath been by ancient and unquestionable laws of the land , yet the recovery of tithes when unjustly detained , can be no otherwise than by the law of the land , as it is now in force . and if these do allow several discharges and exemptions not to be found in the ancient laws or practice , we shall but involve our selves in fruitless-contentions , if we dispute those limitations which the law hath put upon the payment of tithes . and therefore our business is to enquire and satisfie our selves , as well as we can , about the nature and extent of these limitations . now there are four sorts of discharges of the payment of tithes allowed . . by appropriations to monasteries . . by privileges of particular orders . . by prescription and real compositions . . by unity and possession . of these i shall discourse in order , so as to clear the greatest difficulties , with respect to them . . as to appropriations . by the statute of dissolution , h. . . the new possessors are to enjoy their parsonages appropriated , tithes , pensions , and portions , and all other lands belonging to them , discharged and acquitted of the payment of tithes , as freely , and in as ample a manner as they were enjoyed before . h. . . it is enacted , that no persons shall be compelled , or otherwise sued to yield , give or pay any manner of tithes for any mannors , lands , tenements , or other hereditaments , which by laws or statutes of this realm are discharged , or not chargeable with the payment of any such tithes . so that we must enquire into the state of parsonages appropriated before the dissolution , and how the payment of tithes stood then . i will not deny that there were churches appropriated to monasteries in the saxon times ; but if mr. selden's doctrine hold good , as to the arbitrary consecration of tithes till the twelfth century , those churches cannot carry the tithes along with them , but only such glebe and oblations as belonged to them . for how could the tithes pass with the churches , if they were not then annexed to them ? but he confesses , that the mention of tithes with churches in appropriations , was rare , or not at all till after the normans . the reason might be , that the separation of tithes from the churches , was not known till the norman times . for the norman nobility took little notice of the saxon laws about tithes ; but finding tithes paid out of the lands within their manors , they thought they did well , if they gave the whole tithes , or a portion and share of them , as they thought fit , to some monastery either abroad or at home . and this i take to be the true account of the beginning of appropriations among us . it were endless to give an account of the appropriations made by the normans , for the monasticon is full of them . william i. gave several churches with their tithes to battle-abbey . william rufus added more . h. . to the monastery of reading , several churches in like-manner ; and h. . more . hugh earl of chester , gave the tithes of several manors to the monastery of st. werburg , in the time of william i. of which kind the instances are too many to be mentioned ; instead thereof , i shall set down the state of the parochial clergy under these appropriations , which was very mean , and intended so to be , being supplied by the english clergy . . where the churches and tithes were appropriated to a monastery , the vicar had only such a competency as the bishop thought fit to allow , till vicarages came to be endowed : for right understanding this matter of appropriations , as it stood here in england , these things are to be considered . . that there was a parochial right of tithes settled in the saxon times : which i infer from the laws of edgar and canutus , where the tithes are required to be paid to the mother-church ; and if the lord of a manor have a church on his own free-land , he may retain a third part of the tithes for the use of it . these laws are so plain and clear , that mr. selden does not deny them ; and he confesses , the first limitation of profits to be contained in them . but what is to be understood by the mother-church to which the tithes were given ? mr. selden would have it the monastery or mother-church ; but afterwards he grants , that a parochial right to incumbents was hereby settled ; which is the first legal settlement of tithes in a parochial manner : but these laws of edgar and canutus were so solemnly enacted , that , as mr. selden observes , they were particularly called , leges anglicae , the old english laws in the old latin mss. it is a commonly received opinion among the lawyers of the best rank , that before the lateran council there was no parochial settlement of tithes here . my lord coke found no such decree of the lateran council under alexander . h. . a. d. . and therefore he refers it to a decretal of innocent . as to the lateran council which lyndwood mentions , it plainly speaks of feudal tithes , which a person enjoyed by the churches grant , and such might before that council , be given to what church the person pleased . but is there no difference between feudal and parochial tithes ? and what proof is there of any ancient infeodations of tithes here ? mr. selden himself thinks lyndwood applies the custom of other countries to his own . but as to the parochial right of tithes among us , it stands thus : by the saxon laws the parochial was settled . after the norman invasion these laws were neglected and slighted by the normans ; h. i. by his charter restored them , h. . c. . and the very words of the laws of edgar and canutus are repeated . the normans went on notwithstanding , and so these laws were discontinued in practice . but hadrian . who was an englishman by birth , observing the disorderly payments of tithes here , published a constitution to require the parochial payment of them , as is observed by p. pithaeus , a very learned and impartial man. after him alexander . in a decretal directed to the archbishop of canterbury and his suffragans , complains , that whereas the parishioners had formerly paid their tithes entirely where they ought to pay them , the contrary custom had obtained ; and some withdrew the tithe of wooll , fish , and mills ; therefore he requires the strict payment of them to the churches to which they were due . the latter part only is in the canon law , but the former is added from the ancient copies by pithaeus . as to the decretal of innocent iii. to which my lord coke refers , and mr. selden thinks was mistaken for the lateran council , being brought into england with it ; there is such an epistle extant in the collection of his epistles , but not put into the canon law , and was nothing but an inforcement of the former laws , and a declaring the contrary custom void , which had too much obtained since the norman times . but in a decretal extant in the canon law , de decim . c. . he acknowledges the parochial payment of tithes to be due by common right , cum perceptio decimarum ad paroeciales ecclesias de iure communi pertineat . can any thing be plainer than that the parochial right could not depend upon his decretal epistle , when himself confesses that they were due by common right ? we do not deny that he inforced the payment which had been so grosly neglected in the norman times , and the most they would be brought to in many places , was to pay only a third part to the parish-priest who officiated , and gave the rest to monasteries , and often appropriated the whole tithes to them , either at home or abroad , as will abundantly appear by the monasticon ; from whence it is plain , that they looked on tithes in general , as due to the church , as appears by very many of their ancient charters ; but they thought they did very well when they appropriated them to monasteries of their own erection , or others , as they thought fit . but this humour took so much among the norman nobility , and served so many purposes of honour and devotion , as they thought ( besides reason of state ) that the parochial clergy were reduced to so poor a condition , that alexander iv. complained of it as the bane of religion , and destruction of the church , and as a poison which had spread over the whole nation . and it must be very scandalous indeed , when the pope complained of it : for the monks that were able , generally got their appropriations confirmed in the court of rome . . there was a competency to be settled on the parochial clergy by the bishops consent , which was required in order to the confirming an appropriation ; as may be seen in multitudes of them in the monasticon , besides those which are preserved in the churches registers . sometimes the endowment is expressed , and at other times it is reserved in the bishop's power to do it as he sees cause . but the bishops were either so remiss in those times , or the monks so powerful at rome , that the poor vicars fared so hardly , that in the time of h. . alexander iii. sent a reprimand to the bishops for favouring the monks too much , and the clergy too little ; and therefore requires the bishops to take care that the vicar had a competent subsistence , so as to be able to bear the burden of his place , and to keep hospitality . this was directed to the bishop of worcester ; for it seems so long since the poor vicars here were hardly provided for . and yet i have seen several forms of appropriations made by the bishops here , after the conquest , wherein there is a twofold salvo ; one for the bishop's right , and another for a sufficient maintenance for the curate , although the church were appropriated ad communem usum monachorum , as of wolstan , roger , and of william in the time of hen. ii. when alexander iii. lived , and of walter de grey , sylvester , &c. but it seems where a competent subsistence had been decreed , the monks took the first opportunity to lessen it ; which occasioned another decretal in the canon law , wherein any such thing is forbidden , without the bishop's consent . in other places they pleaded custom for it ; thence came another decree of the lateran council , to void all such customs by whomsoever introduced , where there was not a competent subsistence for him that served the cure. the monks were still refractary in this matter ; and because the bishops had power to refuse any person presented by the monks , unless they did consent to such a reasonable allowance as the bishop thought fit ; therefore they grew sullen , and would not present ; in which case another decretal was made to give the bishop power to present . and after all , clement v. de iure patron . c. . reinforced the former decretals , and injoyned the diocesans in the strictest manner , not to admit any person presented to a cure , where the church was appropriated , unless sufficient allowance were made by the bishop's consent and approbation , and all custom and privileges to the contrary are declared to be void . but how far doth this hold among us now , since the appropriations are become lay-fees , and the bishop's power is not mentioned in the statute of dissolution ? to this i shall give a clear answer , but i doubt not satisfactory , to all parties concerned . for as necessity and power , so some mens interest and reason live very near one another . . the statute of dissolution leaves all matters of right as to persons interested just as they were before . for by the surrender the king was to have the monasteries and tithes in as large and ample a manner as the abbots then had them in right of their houses , and in the same state and condition as they then were , or of right ought to have been : and so res transit cum suo onere . but this is not all : for there is an express salvo for all rights , claims , interests , &c. of all persons and bodies politick . so that if by the law of england there was such an antecedent right in the vicar to his allowance , and in the bishop to assign it , it is not taken away by this statute , nor any other . . by the law of england the bishop had a right to provide a competent maintenance for supplying the cure upon an appropriation . we are told by an unquestionable authority in point of law , that car. . this point was brought before the kings bench , in the case of thornburgh and hitchcot . the vicar complained , that the church was appropriated , and that he wanted a competent maintenance ; a prohibition was prayed , but denied upon this reason , that the vicar had reason for his suit , and that the ordinary might compel the impropriator to make it greater ; because in all appropriations that power was reserved to the ordinary . and so in the year-books it is allowed , that the ordinary may increase or diminish the vicar's portion , e. . cas. . f. . by our provincial constitutions , the bishop is to take care that the vicar have a competent allowance ; which at that time was set at five marks ; but lyndwood observes , that as the price of things rose , so the allowance was increased , and in stipendiaries it was then advanced to eight or ten marks ; which , according to sir h. spelman's computation , comes to above sixty pounds per annum . but some have told us , that by some old statutes , even beneficed persons were not by law to have above six marks per annum ; for this was the sum allowed to parish priests ; which is so gross a mistake in any that pretend to law or antiquity , that it is to be wondred how they could fall into it . the truth of the case was this ; the parochial chaplains or priests were complained of , e. . n. . that they could not be gotten to attend after the plague , but at excessive rates ; upon this a provincial constitution was made , extant in the parliament rolls , wherein they are obliged to demand no more than six marks . but who were these parish-priests ? not such as had the legal endowments , but those who depended on the good-will of the parson or people , and were hired to officiate in chapels of ease , or to perform offices for the dead , which were so frequent at that time . and these were called annual chaplains , or masse chaplains , and were distinguished from domestick chaplains who officiated in great mens houses in their private oratories , and from beneficed persons , as appears by many constitutions . but whatever was understood by the act of parliament then , it was repealed iac. . . . the law of england , as to a competent subsistence for the vicars or curates in appropriated churches , is founded on very good reason . for the tithes were originally given for the service of the church , and not for the use of monasteries . and this was a hard point for the monks to get over , since the tithes were given for the maintenance of the clergy , and they were none of the clergy , how they came to have a right to the tithes . it is certain , that the state of the clergy and the monastick state were different ; and the offices of the clergy and of the monks were inconsistent , if they held to their rules ; how then came the monks to take the maintenance which belonged to the clergy for other offices , as though they were originally intended for them ? for which there is no colour or pretence . this point was debated between two great men of their times , s. bernard and petrus cluniacensis : the former a cistertian monk , declared himself unsatisfied with the monks taking the maintenance of the parochial clergy from them , which was given on purpose to attend the cure of souls . but , said petrus cluniacensis , do we not pray for their souls ? but the cure of souls is another thing ; and by the canons of the church the monks were forbidden to meddle in parochial offices of preaching , baptizing , visiting the sick. so that it might bear a question in law , whether a monastery were capable of an appropriation , since by the ecclesiastical law , they are not an ecclesiastical body ? and for that reason hobart saith , a nunnery is not ; and the same reason will hold for the other . the cistertian order was at first very scrupulous in this matter , when they came hither , and pretended to live only on their own lands , and disliked appropriations , as great injuries to the clergy , and called it sacrilege to take their tithes away from them . this was wisely done of them at first to ingratiate themselves with the clergy , and to get as good lands as they could . but after a while they abated their zeal , and then they pretended to do nothing without the bishops consent ; till at last they were as ready as any , and got as large privileges to exempt their lands from payment of tithes , under which the clergy suffer to this day . but to return to the beginning of appropriations among us . after the normans coming , they stood upon no niceties of law , or original grants , but they took possessions of the tithes of their manors , and disposed them as they pleased . the poor parochial clergy were english , whom they hated , and cared not how poor they were ; the bishops were normans , as fast as they could make them ; and the business of the great men , was to incourage the norman monks that came over , and to build and endow monasteries for them to pray for their souls , which they minded so little themselves ; and this i take to be the true account of the beginning and increase of appropriations in england , which at first were only permitted , but are confirmed by the law since the statute of dissolution . ii. in some appropriations there were vicarages endowed , and here the difficulty lies in distinguishing the tithes which belong to one from the other . before the statutes for endowment of vicarages , in case of appropriations , r. . . h. . . there were endowments made , where the bishops took care of it ; but they were generally so remiss in it , that those statutes were thought very necessary ; and one , it● seems , was not sufficient . for they eluded the former by appointing vicars out of their own body ; but the latter statute requires , that the vicar shall be a secular person , and made spiritual vicar , and have such an endowment as the ordinary should think fit , otherwise the appropriation to be void . the scandal of the appropriations was made so great by the greediness of the monks , and easiness of the bishops , that i find in the parliament rolls h. . . a petition of the commons , that no appropriations should be made for the future ; but afterwards they came to that temper which is expressed in the statute h. . and that before those statutes , there was no necessity of the endowment of a vicarage , is plain from the occasion of making them ; and so it hath been agreed in the courts of law in the case of britton and ward . but the main difficulty is , to state the tithes which belonged to the vicarage and to the appropriation ; because there was no certain limitation either as to quantity or kind , although generally the great tithes of corn and hay went with the parsonage , and the small tithes and obventions , and altarage with the vicarage . the best rules i can find to be satisfied in this matter , are the endowment , or prescription . and where the endowment is found , yet there may be a prescription for tithes not mentioned ; because the bishop had a power reserved to increase the allowance : as in the case of the vicar of gillingham , who sued for customary tithes not mentioned in the endowment ; and he recovered them on this presumption , that the vicarage might be augmented with those tithes ; and in case of long possession , it is there said to have been often so held and ruled . sometimes there is a difficulty in the sense of the words of the endowment , as in the case of barksdale and smith , whether decima garbarum in w. implied tithe-hay ; but it was resolved , that although garba seems to relate to corn , de omni annonâ decima garba deo reddenda est . l. edw. confess . c. . at least , to something bound up ; and so lyndwood applies it to faggots ; yet the custom was thought sufficient to extend it to tithe-hay ; and for tithe-wood in renoulds and green's case . but the greatest difficulty hath been about small tithes , which is the common endowment of vicarages . in the case of ward and britton , one point was , whether lambs were small tithes or not . noy pleaded custom for it . the councel on the other side said , that small tithes were such as grew in gardens ; but lambs were a sort of praedial tithes ; however , it was yielded , that custom might bring them under small tithes . another point about small tithes , was about saffron growing in a corn-field , in the case of bedingfield and freak , and it was resolved to be small tithes . but the ground of that resolution was questioned in the case of udal and tyndal ; some said it was , because saffron was small tithes where-ever it grew : others , that by the endowment , the parson had only reserved the tithe of corn and hay . but suppose whole fields be planted with woad , which grows in the nature of an herb , is this to be reckoned among small tithes ? crook seems to deliver the sense of the court so , in the former case ; but hutton reports it , that it might come to be majores decimae and praedial , if it came to be the main profits of the place . and the like may hold as to hemp , hops , wooll and lambs . it 's there said , that all these new things , as saffron , hemp , woad , tobacco , &c. are to be reckoned among small tithes , unless there be some material circumstance to the contrary . but who is to be judge of that ? and what proportion changes small tithes into greater ? but what if the endowment be so expressed , that only tithes of corn and hay be reserved to the parson ? then rolls thinks all the rest falls to the vicar by construction of law. by the word altarage , it was resolved in the exchequer , upon a solemn hearing , eliz. and after confirmed in the case of wood and greenwood , not meer oblations are to be understood , but whatever custom hath comprehended under it . and i find in the settlement of the altarage of cockerington by rob. grosthead , bishop of lincoln , not only oblations and obventions , but the tithes of wooll and lamb were comprehended under it . ii. the next discharge of tithes , is by the privileges of particular orders allowed by our law. for it is , to be observed , that no bulls of popes make a legal discharge ; but in such cases where the law allows them , and my lord coke thinks it cannot be insisted upon without danger of a praemunire . for when the cistertians had procured new bulls to inlarge their privileges , as to their lands in the hands of farmers , a law was passed against it , h. . c. . which was grounded on a petition in parliament shewing the novelty and mischief of it . it was affirmed by our great lawyers , that the pope's act in dissolving the body of the templars , which was done , e. . had no effect here till the e. . when the parliament gave their lands to the hospitallers . and that the pope could not by his bull dissolve a vicarage after they were made perpetual by the statute ; so that our own law is to govern in this matter . but what orders had exemption from tithes by our law ? at first most of the orders of monks had it for lands in their own hands . this by hadrian iv. was restrained to the cistertians , templars and hospitallers , which is owned in the canon law by a decretal of alexander iii. who declares it not to be intended for lands let out to farm . innocent iii. restrains it to such lands as they were then in possession of ; but my lord coke makes the grant to be from innocent iii. in the council of lateran , john ; but he adds , that it extends only to the lands which they had before ; which was all that was done then . but he saith , that this privilege was allowed by the general consent of the realm ; however that were , it is certain that the lateran council made no restriction to the three orders . but what shall we say to the praemonstratenses , of whom he saith , that they were discharged by a bull of innocent iii. this point was disputed in the case of dickenson and greenhow . it was not denied , that they had obtained such a bull , but it was denied that it was ever received here . on the other side , it was said , that their bulls were confirmed ; which doth not appear , nor that any judgment was given in the case . there is a bull extant in the collection of innocent's epistles , to exempt the praemonstratenses from the tithes of lands in their own hands ; but this was granted in the first year of innocent iii. sometime before the lateran council , and they might enjoy the same privileges with the cistertians , if it could be proved , that they were as generally received , which hath not yet been done . as to the cistertians themselves , there are considerable limitations of their privileges . . they must relate to lands in their possession before the lateran council , a. d. . of king iohn . and in matters against common right , the proof in reason ought to be on those who pretend to particular privilege . but it 's certain the cistertian order hath had many lands in england since that time ( and it were no hard matter to find them out . ) but , suppose they were actually discharged at the dissolution , and the proprietaries were to enjoy them in the state they found them , is not this a sufficient discharge ? yes , if it be a legal discharge ; for the statute only puts them into the same legal capacity they were in before ; but if they were lands given since the lateran council , they were not in a capacity to be discharged by law ; for it was not otherwise received . . this privilege doth not exclude ancient compositions , as to their demesn lands . for these privileges did not go down so easily , but where there were rectors able to contest it , they brought even the cistertians to compositions . and the pope himself appointed commissioners here to compound the matter : as between the monastery of pipewel and hugh patesbul rector of eltyndon , which ended in a composition of six marks per annum for the tithes of their demesns . and another between the vicar of dunchurch and the same monastery ; and between the rector of wynswick for the tithes of ten yard-lands in colds-abbey . all which i have perused in the register of that monastery ms. . the privilege doth not hold where the monasteries were under value , and came to the king by the statute h. . unless they were continued , and came within the statute of dissolution , h. . and it ought to be proved that they continued separate ; for if their lands were given to the greater monasteries , they did not retain the privilege upon dissolution . but there is a much harder point concerning the hospitallers ( who had the lands of the templers after e. . ) their lands were not given to the king by the statute of dissolution , h. . but h. . c. . and the clause of exemption was left out of the grant. upon which a great question hath risen , whether their lands are exempt or not ? and judgment was given against them in the case of cornwallis , or quarles and spurling . but in the case of whiston and weston , it was argued , that the king had the same privileges which the hospitallers had . but it was replied , that other lands given to the king after that act , had not those privileges , as chanteries , &c. it was said , that it was , because they were not regular ecclesiastical bodies : which was a strange answer , considering what sort of ecclesiastical bodies the hospitallers made , when only the grand master and two chaplains are bound to be ecclesiasticks ; and in foreign judicatures they were denied to be any part of the clergy , being only an order of knights under some particular regulations . but suppose them capable of appropriations of tithes , yet when the body is dissolved , the appropriation falls of it self , unless continued by act of parliament , as those of the templars were to them ; and those of the monasteries by h. . but where there is no clause to continue the appropriation , it must be understood to be left to the natural course of things , and so the appropriation sinks . iii. the third legal exemption is from prescription , and ancient compositions . this seems a difficult case , because something less than the real value is to be taken , and the rule in lyndwood is , non valet consuetudo , ut minus quam decima solvatur ; but in all such prescriptions and compositions there is less than the true value . to clear this matter , i shall shew , . that by our ecclesiastical law , all compositions are not condemned . . that by the common law all prescriptions are not allowed . and if these things be made out , it will follow , that where the compositions and prescriptions are legal , the clergy may with good conscience submit to them , as they do in other matters of law. . as to the ecclesiastical law , lyndwood himself makes these limitations ; . in case of personal tithes . he grants that as to them , a man may with a good conscience observe the custom although it be under the real value . now these are founded on the same laws that praedial and mixt tithes are ; and by the stat. e. . c. . they are reduced to a customary payment before easter , as it had been used forty years before : but besides these there were offerings to be compounded for , and the easter duties are a kind of composition for personal tithes . . in small tithes , the customary payment is allowed . the payment in lyndwood's time , was ob . for six lambs , because it was the tenth of the value at that time of a lamb of a year old ; the seventh lamb was to be paid in kind , for which ob . were to be paid back , because three lambs were wanting of the number ten. but can any one believe that d. was the true value then of a lamb of a year old ? and lyndwood doth not suppose it be the exact value ; but it was such as the provincial constitution determined , and he allows compositions super minutis decimis . . compositions were allowed with the bishop's consent with lay-persons for their tithes . as to what is past , there was no doubt ; but for the future he saith , it doth not hold sine iudicis auctoritate ; which implies , that by his consent it may . and if so , then a modus decimandi so qualified , is allowed by the ecclesiastical law. such compositions as these were entred into the bishop's registries , and if they were then made upon a valuable consideration at that time , i doubt the force of custom will get the better of the reason that may be taken from the great difference of valuation of things . . let us now consider what prescriptions and compositions are not allowable at common law. . no prescription de non decimando , is allowed among lay-persons , because none but spiritual persons are by the law capable of tithes in their own right . a lay-man , saith mr. selden , cannot be discharged of all payment by meer prescription , unless he begin the prescription in a spiritual person . and to the same purpose our great lawyers speak . but in the famous case of pigot and hern , a distinction was found out , which may prove of dangerous consequence , viz. that although the lord of a manor cannot prescribe for tithes , because he is not capable of them by our law , yet he may prescribe for a tenth shock , as a profit apprendre , as a thing appurtenant to his manor ; and so he may have decimam garbam , but not decimas garbarum . upon which resolution it is said in the bishop of winchester's case , that the lord of a manor may have tithes as appurtenant to his manor : for which there is no foundation in our ancient laws or customs , that i can find , and is inconsistent with what is before acknowledged , that none but spiritual persons are capable of tithes . but in plain truth , this case is not truly represented ; and my lord chief justice hobart , a person of great judgment and learning in the law , hath told the world , that this famous reporter hath sometimes given his own opinion , and that sudden , instead of the resolution of the court , which must take much off from the authority of his reports ; especially when the case is differently reported by others ; as it falls out in this case . for serjeant moor , who was of councel in that case , saith , that the defendant pleaded a modus decimandi in satisfaction for tithes , which was s. per annum : but as to the other point , whether such an ancient modus being made with the lord of a manor , binds the copy-holders , it is out of our way ; but surely there ought to be good proof , that the modus was made before the copy-holds holds were granted , which is not offered , but only that it might be so ; which deserves no other answer , but that it might not be so . and it is hard indeed , when judgments are given upon possibilities . and for the distinction of decima garba and decimae garbarum , in a composition for tithes , is the same thing . mr. selden , as to this case of pigot and hern , saith , it was an inheritance of tithes from immemorial time , by virtue of an ancient composition . and he would not understand the judges in any other sense : for no kind of infeodation of tithes is allowable here , he saith , so as to create in lay-men a perpetual right to them ( except only by the statute of dissolution of monasteries ) unless it be derived from some ancient grant of discharge from the parson , patron and ordinary , with a consideration of recompence to the parson ; and that either from time immemorial , or ancient composition . and to the same purpose he speaks in another place , where he owns , that by our law every parson had a common right to the tithes of all annual increase ( praedial or mixt ) within the limits of his parish ; and any title or discharge must be specially pleaded . . where a prescription is pleaded de modo decimandi , the actual recompence by composition must be shewed . for , as my lord coke saith , a modus decimandi is intended as a yearly sum in way of satisfaction for the tithes to the parson ; which rolls calls the actual recompence . in the register the account of the modus decimandi is thus set down : . there was a real composition , as four acres of land for some small tithes . . there was an agreement in writing , by the consent of ordinary and patron . but my lord coke saith , the modus may as well be for a sum of money as for land. suppose no ancient composition in writing can be produced , how far doth a prescription hold ? . it must be immemorial , or time out of mind . here a great point arises fit to be considered : suppose the thing it self hath been within memory , as improvements by hops , fruit-trees , &c. doth not a composition bind in this case ? i answer , that we are to distinguish personal contracts from real compositions . in the case of hitchcock and hitchcock , there was a contract between the vicar and parishioners , but it was denied to be a real composition , although confirmed by the ordinary , and affirmed not to be binding to the successors . a composition by a meer verbal agreement in the case of hawles and bayfield was declared to be neither binding to the party nor his successors . but in the case of tanner and small it was declared to hold for years , but not for life . my lord coke seems to be of opinion , that if it be a prescription , it must be time out of memory of man ; but that a real composition may be either before , or within memory of man ; but then it must be by parson , patron , and ordinary . it is well observed by sir simon degge in his useful book about these matters , that although real compositions are supposed in law to be the foundation of prescriptions de modo decimandi , where the patron , ordinary and parson did consent to them ; yet that the most of them have grown up by the negligence and carelesness of the clergy themselves , which , i am afraid , is too true . and he is of opinion , that no real composition can be made now to bind the successor , since the statute , eliz. c. . which restrains all binding grants to one and twenty years , or three lives ; and if so , then the consent of patron and ordinary cannot make it good . . it must be reasonable , and therefore it hath been rejected in these cases : . if it be a prescription to pay a certain tithe without the parson's view of the nine parts , because , saith hobart , it is against the law of partition , in the case of wilson and the bishop of carlisle . . if there be no recompence to the parson , as in the case of scory and barber , the prescription was founded on the parishioners finding straw for the body of the church . . if it be for paying only what was due in lieu of other tithes ; as in the case of ingoldsby and iohnson , that they paid their other tithes in lieu of tithes of dry cattel ; or in case a load of hay be prescribed for in lieu of tithe-hay , or ten sheafs of corn for the tithe of all the rest . . if it be not for something certain and durable . for this , saith hobart , shews an original weakness in the composition ; being of a thing certain and durable for that which is not so . iv. the last exemption or discharge that is pleaded as to the payment of tithes , is unity of possession : that is , where a monastery had the right of tithes by appropriation , and had other lands which did not pay tithes , because the owners were to receive them , these were actually free at the time of dissolution ; and the question is , whether they are legally so by virtue of the statute ? it cannot be denied , that unity of possession is in it self no legal discharge ; but whether by the words of the statute the judges were divided in opinion . but afterwards in the case of green and bosekin the judges allowed it , so it were not a meer unity of estate , but of occupation . hobart saith , that after it had been long controverted , it was received as the common opinion . coke , that where unity of possession gives a discharge , the title must be clear , the non-payment general , and the prescription time out of memory ; but if the appropriation were made in the time of ed. . h. . it could not be discharged by unity ; nor if it were a late abby-prescription . thus i have endeavoured to lay this matter before you as briefly and clearly as i could , from the best light i could get , that i might give you such directions , that you may neither run into needless and vexatious suits , nor be run down by frivolous pretences . it is your great advantage that you have the law of your side , if you understand it a right ; but have a care of being set on by such , whose interest it is to promote suits ; and i am sure it is yours to prevent them , if it be possible , and as much as lies in you . the church's right is not to suffer by your negligence ; and you are not to make the church to suffer by your contentions . he that loves going to law , seldom fails of having enough of it ; he suffers in his purse , in his reputation , in his interest , and the church suffers by his means . endeavour to gain , as much as may be , the love of your people by a kind , modest , courteous and peaceable behaviour , which is the best way to prevent , or to compose differences . if you are forced to sue for your maintenance , let them see that you are forced to it , and that you are always willing to put an end to all such disputes , if the church's right be secured , which you are bound to preserve . of the obligation to observe the ecclesiastical canons and constitutions , at a visitation october th . . in speaking clearly and distinctly to this case , there are these two things to be considered ; i. by what authority they do oblige , ii. in what way and manner they oblige . i. the first thing to be considered , is the authority by which ecclesiastical canons and constitutions do oblige . for , if there be not sufficient authority , there cannot be that obligation on conscience , which supposes a legal exercise of power , or a just right to command . our obedience to the orders of our superiours , is due by virtue of that divine law which requires us to be subject for conscience-sake : but our obedience is to be regulated by the order of iustice , i.e. it ought to be according to law. therefore it is necessary , in the first place , to enquire , whether there be among us any such things as ecclesiastical laws , i.e. such rules , which according to the constitution of our government , we are bound to observe . for we are members of a church established by law ; and there are legal duties incumbent on us , with respect , not only to the laws of god , but of the realm . for , although our office and authority , as church-men , hath a higher original ; yet the limitation of the exercise of it , is within such bounds as are allowed and fixed by the law of the land. it is therefore a matter of great consequence to us to understand how far our ecclesiastical constitutions are grounded upon the law of the land , which cannot be done without searching into the foundations of our laws . which lie in three things : . immemorial custom . . general practice and allowance . . authority of parliament . and i shall endeavour to shew how far our ecclesiastical constitutions are founded on these . . immemorial custom . our greatest lawyers allow ancient custom to be one of the foundations of our laws ; and my lord coke calls it one of the main triangles of the laws of england . i suppose he means foundations . and another saith , that the common law of england is nothing else but the common custom of the realm . my lord chief justice hales saith , that the common usage , custom and practice of the kingdom , is one of the main constituents of our law. coke quotes bracton ' s authority to prove , that custom obtains among us the force of a law , where it is received and approved by long use. and of every custom , he saith , there be two essential parts , time and usage ; time out of mind , and continual and peaceable usage without interruption . but in case of prescription or custom , he saith , that an interruption of ten or twenty years hinders not the title , but an interruption in the right ; the other is only an actual suspension for a time . it may be asked , how time and usage come to make laws , since time hath no operation in law , saith grotius ? not of it self , as grotius there saith , but with the concurrence of other circumstances it may . bracton saith , longa possessio parit jus possidendi ; and by a long and peaceable possession dominion is transferred , without either title or delivery ; which he founds on this good reason , that all claims of right ought to have a certain limitation of time , and length of time takes away any proof to the contrary . littleton saith , that time out of memory of man , is said to give right , because no proof can be brought beyond it . and this he calls prescription at common law , as it is distinguished from prescription by the several statutes of limitations . but whence is it then , that an immemorial possession gives right ? is it from the meer silence of the parties concerned to claim it ? no , silence gives no consent , where ignorance or fear may be the cause of it . and is it a punishment upon the neglect of the party concerned ? so bracton saith , time doth it per patientiam & negligentiam veri domini . but meer neglect doth not overthrow right , unless there be an antecedent law to make that neglect a forfeiture ? is it from a presumptive dereliction ? but that supposes not bare continuance of time , but some kind of voluntary act , which implies a sort of consent which doth not appear in this case . and it is a great mistake in those , who think there is no presumptive dereliction , where there is not a full consent ; for it may be , where there is the consent of a mixt will , i.e. partly voluntary , and partly involuntary ; when the circumstances are such , as the person rather chuses to leave his right , than submit to the lawful conditions of enjoying it : as if a man would rather quit his fee than perform the service which belongs to it . is it from the common interest of mankind , that some bounds be fixed to all claims of right ? because otherwise that men will be liable to perpetual disturbance , if the right be permitted to be claimed beyond any possibility of proof . or is it , lastly , that in such nations where immemorial custom obtains the force of a law , it seems agreeable to the foundations of law , that a long continued possession should carry right along with it . and this was the case here in england , as not only appears by what bracton hath said , but glanvil makes a great part of our law to consist of reasonable customs of long continuance . and st. germain affirms ancient general customs to be one of the principal foundations of our law ; and that they have the force of laws , and that the king is bound by his oath to perform them . and it is worth our while to observe what general customs he doth instance in ; as the courts of equity and law , the hundred court , the sheriffs turn , the court baron , &c. which depend not upon acts of parliament , but the ancient custom of england , which he calls the common law. and among these ancient customs , he reckons up rights of descent , escheats , the different sorts of tenures , freeholds , and the laws of property , as they are received among us . we are now to enquire , how far any of our ecclesiastical constitutions can be said to be built upon this foundation ; and upon immemorial custom generally received . . i place ( . ) the distribution of this national church into two provinces , in each whereof there is an archbishop with metropolitical power , which lies chiefly in these things , ( . ) the right of consecration of his suffragans . ( . ) the right of visitation of every diocess in such way and manner as custom hath settled it . ( . ) the right of receiving appeals from inferiour courts of judicature in ecclesiastical matters . ( . ) the right of presiding in provincial councils of the suffragans of his province ; which by the most ancient constitutions of this church , were to be held once a year ; so it was decreed in the council under theodore , a. d. . but by the difficulties of the times , they were discontinued ; and so the authority of examining things through the province , came by a kind of devolution to the archbishop and his courts . ( . ) the custody of vacant sees , by the custom of england , falls to the metropolitan , if there hath been no custom or composition to the contrary . and so it hath been upon solemn ▪ debates resolved in our courts of common law. coke thinks that of common right it belongs to the dean and chapter , but by custom to the archbishop . but panormitan saith , there was no pretence of common right for them , till the time of boniface viii . . the ordinary jurisdiction of every bishop over the clergy of his own diocess . this is as ancient as christianity among us . for no sooner were churches planted , but there were bishops set over them ; who had from the beginning so much authority , that none of the clergy could either receive or quit his benefice without their consent and approbation ; and they were all bound to give an account of their behaviour at their visitations ; and in case of contempt , or other misdemeamours , they were to proceed against them according to the canons of the church . i do not say the diocesses were at first all modelled alike , or with the same bounds which they now have ; which was unreasonable to suppose , considering the gradual conversion of the nation . for at first there was but one bishop in every one of the saxon kingdoms , except kent , where was but one suffragan to the metropolitan for some time , till the kingdoms came to be united ; or the kings consented to an increase of several diocesses , and uniting them under one metropolitan , which was a work of time. but in all the saxon councils we find no mention of any ecclesiastical jurisdiction , but what was in the bishops themselves , concil . cloveshoo , can. , , . concil . cealchyth . can. . egbert canon . c. , . the first who began to seek for exemptions , were the abbots , who were under the bishop's jurisdiction , who was too near them ; and therefore they endeavoured to get under the pope's immediate jurisdiction by charters of exemption , which the great abbies either procured or made ; and the more ancient the more suspicious . but the lord chancellor and three chief judges declared , that by the common law of england , every bishop in his diocess , and the archbishops in convocation may make canons to bind within the limits of their jurisdiction . . the subordinate jurisdiction which was lodged in the bodies of the clergy resident in cathedral churches , and of archdeacons in the several diocesses : i cannot find either of these to have had any jurisdiction here before the conquest , neither were there any courts of justice out of the several counties before ; for all causes were transacted in the county-courts and sheriffs turns , and appeals lay from them to the supreme judicature of the king and the lords . but this doth not hinder but these courts may be founded on the law of england . and so the original jurisdiction , which of right belonged to the bishop , might by degrees , and a gradual consent , come to be committed , as to some parts , to the bodies of cathedral churches , and to the archdeacons , who are , saith my lord coke , sixty in england . we are told in a late case of woodward and fox , that there are archdeaconries in england by prescription , which have no dependency on the bishop , but are totally exempt . and for this godolphin is cited , who refers to the gloss on the legatine constitutions , f. . where we read of some archdeacons having a customary and limited iurisdiction separate from the bishop , for which a prescription lies . but this is only for some special iurisdiction ; as the archdeacon of richmond for institutions , which came first by grant from the bishops ; but that not being to be produced , they insist upon custom and prescription , as the deans and chapters do , where the ancient compositions are lost . but none who understand the ancient constitution of this church , can suppose either of them to have been original , since the right to the jurisdiction of the diocess was in the bishop , before there were here either archdeacons or chapters with jurisdiction . in the case of chiverton and trudgeon , it was declared , that an archdeacon might have a peculiar jurisdiction , as to administration , &c. as the dean of st. paul's had at s. pancras ; and so the archdeacon of cornwall , as to wills. in the case of gastril and iones the chief justice declared , that the archdeacon is the bishop's officer , and his authority subordinate to the bishops , and granted by them ; but if special custom be pleaded , that must be well proved ; to which dodderidge agreed . but we must distinguish between archdeaconries by prescription , for which i can find no foundation ( being all derived by grant from the bishop ) and archdeacons having some kind of iurisdiction by prescription , which others have not ; which cannot be denied . all the power which the archdeacons have by virtue of their office , is per modum scrutationis simplicis , as lyndwood speaks , tanquam vicarius episcopi : whatever power they have beyond this , is not iure communi , but iure speciali , and depends either upon grant or custom ; which the gloss on the legatine constitutions calls a limited iurisdiction . the archdeacon's court is declared by the judges in woodward ' s case , to have been , time out of mind , settled as a distinct court , from which there lies an appeal to the bishop's court , by the statute , h. . c. . and so the archdeacon's jurisdiction is founded on an immemorial custom , in subordination to the bishops . as to deans and chapters , i observe these things : . that although ecclesiastical bodies in cathedrals were very ancient , yet we read not of any jurisdiction peculiar to themselves , during the saxon times . my lord. coke saith , there were chapters , as the bishop's council , before they had distinct possessions . and by their books , he saith , it appears , that the bishops parted with some of their possessions to them , and so they became patrons of the prebends of the church : such were london , york and litchfield . . that several of our chapters were founded and endowed by the bishops since the conquest : such was that of salusbury by osmund out of his own estate , as appears by his charter , and the confirmation of h. . so was that of lincoln by remigius , who removed the see from dorchester thither , and placed there a dean , treasurer , praecentor , and seven archdeacons , as henry of huntingdon saith , who lived near the time . and in following times those of exeter and wells were settled as dean and chapter ; for they were ecclesiastical bodies before , but not under that denomination . . that some had the legal rights of dean and chapters , as to election of bishops , and confirmation of leases , &c. but were a monastick body consisting of prior and convent : such were canterbury , winchester , worcester , after the expulsion of the secular canons ; for the monks not only enjoyed their lands , but were willing enough to continue the name of dean among them as at canterbury , after dunstan's time , agelmothas is called dean ; in worcester wolstan is called dean when he was prior ; and winsius , upon the first change , is said to be placed loco decani , by florence of worcester . at norwich , herbert the bishop founded the prior and convent out of his own possessions in the time of william ii. and they became the chapter of the bishop by their foundation . now as to these , it is resolved in the dean and chapter of norwich's case , that when the king transferred them from a prior and convent , the legal rights remained the same . and in hayward and fulcher's case , the judges declared , that an ecclesiastical body may surrender their lands , but they cannot dissolve their corporation , but they still remain a chapter to the bishop . and it was not only then delivered , but since insisted upon in a famous case , that it was the resolution of the iudges , that a surrender cannot be made by a dean and chapter , without consent of the bishop , because he hath an interest in them . . that h. . endowed some as chapters to new erected bishopricks , as chester , bristol , oxford , &c. h. , . h. . . and united others , as bath and wells , and coventry and litchfield , h. . . h. . . . that where the custom hath so obtained , there may be a legal-chapter without a dean ; as in the diocesses of s. david's and landaff , where there is no other head of the chapter but the bishop ; but they must act as a distinct body in elections and confirmations of grants by the bishops . . that by the ancient custom of england , there are sole ecclesiastical corporations as well as aggregate . a sole ecclesiastical corporation , is , where a single person represents a whole succession , and under that capacity is impowered to receive and to convey an estate to his successors : as bishops , deans , archdeacons , parsons , &c. but parsons and vicars are seized only in right of the church , but as to a bishop , he may have a writ of right , because the fee-simple abideth in him and his chapter ; and so may a dean and master of an hospital : and these are called bodies politick by littleton . that the exercise of the bishop's power may be restrained by ancient compositions , as is seen in the two ancient ecclesiastical bodies of st. paul's and litchfield . concerning which , it is to be observed , that where the compositions are extant , both parties are equally bound to observe their parts . thus by the remisness and absence of the bishops of litchfield from their see , by going to chester , and then to coventry , the deans had great power lodged in them , as to ecclesiastical jurisdiction there . after long contests , the matter came to a composition , a. d. . by which the bishops were to visit them but once in seven years , and the chapter had jurisdiction over their own peculiars . so in the church of sarum the dean hath very large jurisdiction , even out of the bishop's diocess ; which makes it probable to have been very ancient ; but upon contest , it was settled by composition between the bishop , dean , and chapter , a. d. . but where there are no compositions , it depends upon custom , which limits the exercise , although it cannot deprive the bishop of his diocesan-right . . the delegate jurisdiction which was committed to the several officers of the bishops courts , and the manner of their proceedings , is founded upon immemorial custom . in the saxon times i find no delegation of ecclesiastical jurisdiction ; for the bishops sate in person in the county-courts , and there heard ecclesiastical causes , as appears by the charter of h. . when he pretended to restore the saxon laws , c. . but william i. had settled the consistory-court by as good a law as any was made at that time , distinct from the county-court , and required all ecclesiastical causes to be there heard ; and his son h. . did but make a shew of restoring the saxon laws , and the former law came to be generally received ; and so mr. selden yields , that it grew to be a general law ; which shews that it obtained the force of a law by consent , as well as by authority . the consistory-courts being thus settled , and numbers of causes there depending , and the bishops being then by h. . in the constitutions of clarendon strictly tied to attendance upon the supreme courts of judicature , with other barons , there came a necessity of taking in other persons with a delegated power to hear causes , and to do such other acts of jurisdiction as the bishops should appoint . for it was still allowed that iure communi , the jurisdiction was in the bishop ; but iure speciali , & in auxilium episcopi , it might be delegated to others . and so it hath been here received , and not only here , but it hath been the general practice of christendom . as to the manner of proceeding in the ecclesiastical courts , it is the same in all parts , and built on the same grounds with those of our courts of equity and admiralty , which are as different from those of the common law. . the settling parochial rights , or the bounds of parishes depends upon an ancient and immemorial custom . for they were not limited by any act of parliament , nor set forth by special commissioners ; but as the circumstances of times , and places , and persons did happen to make them greater or lesser . in some places parishes seem to interfere , when some place in the middle of another parish belongs to one that is distant ; but that hath generally happened by an unity of possession , when the lord of a manor was at the charge to erect a new church , and make a distinct parish of his own demesns , some of which lay in the compass of another parish . but now care is taken by annual perambulations to preserve those bounds of parishes , which have been long settled by custom . but the bounds of parishes is not allowed to belong to the ecclesiastical jurisdiction . ii. the next foundation of law is a general practice , and allowance i.e. when things of themselves do not oblige by the authority of those that made them ; yet being generally received and allowed , they thereby become law to us . this we have in an act of parliament , h. . c. . wherein it is said , that the people of england are only bound to such laws as are properly their own , being in subjection to no foreign legislative power . but were not many things here received for laws , which were enacted by a foreign authority , as the papal and legatine constitutions ? true , say they , but it is not by virtue of their authority , but by the free consent of the people in the use and allowance of them : and so they are not observed as the laws of any foreign prince , potentate , or prelate , but as the customed and ancient laws of this realm , originally established as laws of the same , by the said sufferance , consent and custom , and no otherwise . so that here we have a full and express declaration by parliament ; that such canons as have been received and allowed by ancient custom , make a part of our laws , and continue to oblige , provided that they be not repugnant to the king's prerogative , nor to the laws , statutes , and customs of the realm , as it is expressed in another act of the same parliament , h. . c. . the ecclesiastical laws , saith my lord coke , are such as are not against the laws of the realm , viz. the common law , and the statutes and customs of the realm : and according to such laws the ordinary and other ecclesiastical iudges do proceed in causes within their conusance . so that by the acknowledgement of this great oracle of the common law , there are laws ecclesiastical in force among us , and causes to be judged by those laws , and officers appointed by the law to proceed according to them . the ecclesiastical laws and ordinances are owned by the statute , h. . c. . h. . c. . h. . c. . after the commission appointed for the review of them . e. . c. . the ecclesiastical courts are appointed to be kept by the king's authority , and process to be issued out in his name in all suits and causes of instance between party and party , where the causes are particularly mentioned , which belong to those courts , and no alteration is made in them , as to their powers , but only that the process should be in the king's name . but some persons in our age , who love to be always starting difficulties to humour such as bear ill . will to our constitution , have 〈…〉 although this act was 〈…〉 m. . yet that repeal 〈…〉 ●ac . . n. . therefore 〈…〉 stat. e. . is 〈◊〉 but the plain and short answer is this , that there was no need of any debate about the repeal of the statute of e. . after the first of q. eliz. because then the statute , h. . c. . was expresly revived , wherein the bishops were impowered to act as before they might have done , according to the laws and customs of the realm . by which no less men of the law than coke , popham , and other judges did think the stile of the court , and manner of their proceedings was comprehended . and the ancient episcopal iurisdiction is declared to be according to law , by the stat. el. c. . and all foreign iurisdiction is abolished , and the ecclesiastical iurisdiction annexed to the crown of this realm ; which is owned by every bishop when he takes the oath of supremacy . how then can it be imagined , that he should do any more to the prejudice of the crown , by the process being in the bishop's name , than the lord of a manor doth , when he keeps his courts in his own name ? to suppose that it is owning a foreign iurisdiction , is ridiculous ; for the bishops of england never pretended to act as ordinaries , by virtue of a jurisdiction from the pope , but by virtue of their original authority which they had by the laws of the realm , as to their exterior jurisdictions . and the authority they then acted by from the pope , was in cases extraordinary , when they were delegated by particular commission . and if there had been any real derogation from the king's prerogative , in the process being in the bishop's name , can any man of sense imagine , that it would have been permitted in such jealous times as to supremacy , as the latter end of h. . and the whole reign of q. elizabeth were , wherein the bishops wanted not enemies , but their malice would have been too apparent , if they had insisted on such objections ? but to proceed in shewing that the ecclesiastical laws have been owned by acts of parliament since the reformation , e. . c. . n. . the ecclesiastical iudges are required to proceed according to the king 's ecclesiastical laws . and to the same purpose , el. c. . n. . accordingly my lord coke frequently owns the ecclesiastical laws and iurisdiction , so they be bounded by the laws of the realm ; of which there can be no question . for deciding of controversies , and for distribution of iustice , saith he , there be within this realm two distinct iurisdictions ; the one ecclesiastical , limited to certain spiritual and particular cases ; the other secular and general , for that it is guided by the common and general law of the realm . and to the same purpose my lord chief justice hales in several places in a ms. discourse of the history and analysis of the common law , ch . , and . but here the great difficulty lies in finding out what these canons and constitutions are , which have been so received and allowed by our laws . for it is certain , that several canons made by popes , were not received here , as in the statute of merton , about legitimation of children born before marriage , stat. mert. c. . where the lords declared they would not alter the old laws for a new canon . for alexander iii. in the time of hen. ii. had made a canon to that purpose ; but as glanvil saith , it was contra jus & consuetudinem regni . the canon to take away the benefit of the clergy from bigami , was debated in parliament how far it should be received , and the sense there declared , which was complained of , e. . and taken away , e. . c. . the canon against investiture of bishops by a lay-hand , was never here received ; for although h. . after a long contest gave it up , yet it was resumed by his successors . the canons for exemption of the clergy , were never fully received here . some lawyers say , it was never observed ; i suppose they mean , according to the canons , but that they had legal privileges here , although not a total exemption , cannot be denied by any one versed in our laws from the saxon times . the pope's canon for the clergy not being taxed without his consent , was never received , as appears by the contests about it in the time of e. . and their submission afterwards . the pope's canons about appeals , provisors , dispensations , &c. were never received by such a general consent as to make them laws ; they were sometimes practised by connivence , and the kings , when it served their purposes , let them alone ; but as often as there was occasion , they were contested and denied , and statutes made against the execution of them . some canons i find disputed , whether they were received by the law of england or not . as the canon against clergy mens sons succeeding their fathers in their benefices immediately , without a papal dispensation ; is not only a part of the canon law , but enter'd in our provincial constitutions . but in the case of stoke against sykes , it was held by dodderidge and iones , two learned judges , that this canon was not received here . and dodderidge instanced in two other canons not received ; as against a man's marrying a woman he had committed adultery with ; and a lay-man's not revoking his first presentation . and sir iohn davis mentioned reckoning the months for presentation by weeks , and not by the calendar . but both these are disputable points . for some say , as to the former , that none but the king can revoke a presentation . but the canonists think a private patron may vary with the bishop's consent . and as to the way of computing the months , it hath been differently resolved ; but in catesbie's case , it was determined to be calendar-months for many reasons . but in the ancient resolution in the time of e. ii. the tempus semestre was reckoned from notice to the patron , and not from the death of the incumbent . rolls saith , by our law it is from the time the patron might have notice , with regard to the distance of the place where the incumbent died : which leaves the matter uncertain . but the register reckons from the vacancy . in many other cases the foreign canons were not received , for they allow but four months to a lay-patron , but our law six months ; they deny any sale of a right of advowson , but our law allows it , and a separation of it from the inheritance , which the canon law allows not ; and so in other particulars , but these are sufficient to my purpose . it is observable , that after the council of lions , where the pope was present , peckham , archbishop of canterbury , called a provincial council , wherein he mentions the difference of our customs from all others , and a temperament to be made suitable to them . and our judges in the great case of evans and ayscough , declared , that no canons bind here , but such as are recieved by the realm . and dodderidge said , that our ecclesiastical law doth not consist of the pope's decretals , but is an extract out of the ancient canons , general and national . but the judges agreed , that when they are received , they become part of our law. lord chief justice vaughan saith , that if canon law be made a part of the law of the land , then it is as much the law of the land , and as well , and by the same authority , as any other part of the law of the land. in another place , that the ancient canon law received in this kingdom , is the law of the kingdom in such cases . in a third , that a lawful canon , is the law of the kingdom , as well as an act of parliament . iii. i now come to the third thing , viz. the power of making canons by act of parliament . this is founded on the statute h. . c. . the words are , that no canons , constitutions and ordinances , provincial or synodal , shall be made , promulged and executed without the king 's royal assent or licence . canons so made , and authorized by the king's letters patents , according to the form of the statute , are said by lord chief justice vaughan , to be canons warranted by act of parliament . and such he affirms the canons of a. d. . to be . but some have objected , that these are only negative words , and are not an introduction of a new law , but a declaration of what the law was before . but my lord coke with far greater judgment , limits that expression , that what was then passed , was declaratory of the common law , to that clause , that no canons should be in force , which were repugnant to the laws of the realm . but as to the making of new canons , he only saith , that their iurisdiction and power is much limited , because they must have licence to make them , and the king 's royal assent to allow them , before they be put in execution . but he never imagined the sense of the statute to be , that no canons could be made but in parliament , or that the king had not a power to confirm new canons made by the convocation . as to the law , as it stood before , we must distinguish these two things ; . convocations called by the king 's writ to the bishops , and the body of the clergy , could never assemble without it . but the writ for the convocation to sit with the parliament , ( not together in place , but at the same time ) is contained in the writ to the bishop , and begins with the clause , praemunientes . and it is most probable , that it began on the same ground that the attendance of burgesses did , viz. that when they were brought into the payment of subsidies , they ought to give their consent . for i find , that in the time of h. . a. r. . the inferiour clergy complained , that they were taxed without their consent . . convocations called by the king 's writ to the archbishops ; and in this province the archbishop sends his mandate to the bishop of london , who is to summon all the bishops , &c. to appear at a certain time and place , and to act as they receive authority from the king. the not distinguishing these two writs , hath caused so much confusion in some mens minds , about the rights of the convocation : for they imagine that the convocation , as it treats of ecclesiastical matters , sits by virtue of the first writ , which is in the bishops summons to parliament ; but that related to them as one of the three estates of the realm , whose consent was then required to their own subsidies , which were distinctly granted , but confirmed by the other estates . but the other writ was directed to the archbishop , by which the bishops and inferiour clergy were strictly required to appear , and then to understand the king's further pleasure , as appears by the most ancient . writs for a convocation . which shews , that the convocation , properly so called , is an occasional assembly for such purposes as the king shall direct them when they meet . and this was the true foundation upon which the statute , h. . was built . for it cannot be denied , that in fact there had been convocations for ecclesiastical purposes called without the kings writ , by virtue of the archbishop's legatine power , which was permitted to be exercised here , although it were an usurpation upon the king 's right . so even in the time of h. . although there were a convocation summoned by the king 's writ to the archbishop of canterbury , yet cardinal wolsley , by virtue of his legatine power , superiour to that of the archbishop , removed the convocation to another place , and presided in it : which was as great an affront to the king 's as well as the archbishop's authority , as could well be imagined . but this was then patiently born : wherefore the statute is to be understood of legal , and not of legatine convocations . but when h. . was sufficiently provoked by the court of rome , he resolved to resume the ancient and legal rights of the crown , how soever disused by modern usurpations . and among these he claimed this of summoning the convocation , and directing the proceedings therein . the difference of these writs will best appear by the instance of the convocation , a. d. . in the year , . about the first of february the parliament writ was issued out to the bishops for calling their clergy to parliament ; and this is only ad consentiendum iis quae tunc ibidem de communi concilio regni nostri contigerint ordinari . the other writ for the convocation to the archbishops was issued out the twentieth of february , and had this clause , ad tractandum , consentiendum , & concludendum super praemissis & aliis quae sibi clarius exponentur ex parte meâ . the parliament at that time being dissolved , it 's certain the convocation sitting by virtue of the writ to the bishops must fall with it : but a great question arose , whether the convocation sitting by the writ to the archbishops , was dissolved , or not ? and the greatest judges and lawyers of that time were of opinion it was not . but those were not times to venture upon such points , when people were disposed to find fault , as they did , to purpose when the next parliament met ; who made use of the sitting of this convocation and the canons then pass'd , as one of the popular themes to declaim upon against the bishops , and to inflame the nation against the whole order . the greatest objection in point of law , was , that the commission had a respect to the convocation sitting in parliament-time , which began april . and the commission bore date april . the parliament was dissolved may . and the th of may a new commission was granted , which made void that of the fifteenth of april ; and so what was done by virtue of that , must be done out of parliament , and so not in convocation , according to h. . . although these canons were confirmed by the king's authority the thirtieth of iune the same year . after the king's restoration , an act of parliament passed for restoring the bishops ordinary jurisdiction ; wherein a clause is added , that this act did not confirm those canons of . but left the ecclesiastical laws as they stood . which act being passed by the king's assent , it voids the former confirmation of them , and so leaves them without force . but the alteration of our law by the act , h. . c. . lay not in this , that the convocation by the king 's writ to the archbishop , could not sit but in parliament-time ( although that in all respects be the most proper time ) for there is not a word tending that way in the statute ; but provincial councils having been frequently held here , without any writ from the king , and therein treating of matters prejudicial to the crown , by virtue of a legatine power , there was great reason for the king to resume the ancient right of the crown . for so william i. declared it in eadmerus , that nothing should be done in provincial councils without his authority . but afterwards we find hubert , archbishop of canterbury , holding a provincial council against the king's prohibition ; and several writs were sent to them to prohibit their meddling in matters of state in prejudice to the crown , h. . under penalty of the bishops forfeiting their baronies ; and to the like purpose , e. . e. . e. . which seems to be a tacit permission of these provincial councils , provided they did nothing prejudicial to the crown . and from such councils came our provincial constitutions , which lyndwood hath digested according to the method of the canon-law , and hath therein shewed what part of the canon-law hath any force here ; not by virtue of any papal or legatine power , but by the general consent of the nation , by which they have been received among us . but my business is not now with canons so received , but with canons made according to the statute , h. . . for it is ridiculous to imagine those are only negative words , for then they exclude the king's power of calling a convocation , as well as confirming the acts of it . for to what purpose is the king 's writ to call them together , if being assembled they can do nothing ? but i have already mentioned my lord chief justice vaughan's opinion , that the canons made a. d. . are warranted by h. . c. . it was urged by the council in the case of grove and eliot , carol. . that no canons can alter the law , which are not confirmed by act of parliament . but it was said on the other side , that these canons had been always allowed , having been confirmed by the king. one of the judges said , that the king and convocation cannot make canons to bind the laity , but only the clergy . but vaughan said , that those canons are of force , although never confirmed by act of parliament , as no canons are ; and yet , saith he , they are the laws which bind and govern in ecclesiastick affairs . the convocation , with the licence and assent of the king , under the great seal , may make canons for regulation of the church , and that as well concerning laicks as ecclesiasticks ; and so is lyndwood . there can be no question in lyndwood's time , but ecclesiastical constitutions were thought to bind all that were concerned in them ; and the ecclesiastical laws which continue in force by custom and consent , bind all ; the only question then is about making new canons , and the power to make them , is by virtue of an act of parliament , to which the nation consented ; and so there need no representatives of the people in convocation . and no such thing can be inferred from moor , . for the judges declared the deprivation of the clergy for not conforming to the canons , to be legal ; but they say nothing of others . but in the case of bird and smith , f. . the chancellor and three chief judges declared , that the canons made in convocation by the king's authority , without parliament , do bind in ecclesiastical matters , as an act of parliament . and therefore i proceed to shew , ii. in what manner we are obliged to the observation of these canons ; concerning which i shall premise two things ; . that i meddle not with such canons as are altered by laws ; for all grant , that unless it be in moral duties , their force may be taken away by the laws of the land. . there are some canons , where the general disuse in matters of no great consequence to the good of the church , or the rights of other persons , may abate the force of the obligation ; especially when the disuse hath been connived at , and not brought into articles of visitation , as can. . about gowns with standing collars , and cloaks with sleeves . but the general reason continues in force , viz. that there should be a decent and comely habit for the clergy , whereby they should be known and distinguished by the people ; and for this , the ancient custom of the church is alledged . but here a very material question arises , how far custom is allowed to interpret and alter the force of canons made by a lawful authority : for where a custom prevails against a standing rule , it amounts to this , whether practice against law , is to have more force than the law. and how can there be a reasonable custom against a law built upon reasonable grounds ? but on the other side , if custom hath no power in this case , then all the ancient canons of the church do still bind in conscience , and so we must not kneel at our prayers on sundays , nor between easter and whitsontide , which were thought to be made upon good reason at first ; and so many other canons which have long grown into a disuse . so that if we do strictly oblige persons to observe all ecclesiastical canons made by lawful authority , we run men into endless scruples and perplexities ; and gerson himself grants , that many canons of general councils have lost their force by disuse , and that the observation of them now would be useless and impossible . but on the other side , if meer disuse were sufficient , what would become of any canons and constitutions , where persons are refractary and disobedient ? this is a case which deserves to be stated and cleared . and we are to distinguish three sorts of customs . . customs generally obtaining upon altering the reason of ancient canons . . customs allowed upon the general inconveniency of modern canons . . customs taken up without any rules or canons for them . . as to general customs against ancient canons where the reason is altered ; i see no ground for any to set up those canons , as still in force , among us : for this must create confusion and disorder , which those canons were designed to prevent ; and the laws of the land do certainly supersede ancient canons , wherein the necessary duties of religion are not immediately concerned . for we must have a care of setting up ancient canons against the authority of our laws , which cannot be consistent with our national obligation , nor with the oath of supremacy . . as to customs relating to modern canons , if it hath any force , as to altering the obligation . . it must be general ; not taken up by particular dissaffected persons to our constitution ; for the custom of such men only shews their wilful disobedience and contempt of authority ; and all casuists are agreed , that contempt of lawful authority , is a wilful sin : which supposes a wilful neglect upon knowledge and admonition of their duty . for contempt is , nolle subjici cui oportet subjici ; and a lesser fault commited with it , is a greater sin than a greater fault in it self committed without it , i.e. by meer carelesness and inadvertency . but where there is an open and customary neglect , there is a presumption of contempt , unless some great and evident reason be produced for it . i do not say the bare neglect doth imply contempt in it self , but where there is admonition and a continuance after it , there is a down-right and positive contempt . but where the disuse is general , not out of contempt , but upon other reasons ; and there is no admonition by superiours , but a tacit connivence ; there is a presumtion of a consent towards the laying aside the strict obligation of the canons relating to it . . it must be reasonable ▪ i.e. on such grounds as may abate the force of the obligation . for there is a difference between a custom obtaining the force of a law , and a custom abating the force of a canon : in the former case the custom must be grounded on more evident reason than is necessary for the latter . wherein the casuists allow a permission of superiours joyned with reasonable circumstances , to be sufficient . but how can acts of disobedience make a reasonable custom ? cajetan saith , they are to blame who began it , but not those who follow it , when the custom is general . and suarez saith , it is the common opinion . the canonists say , if a custom be against a rule , the reason must be plain ; if only besides the rule , and be not repugnant to the end and design , the reasonableness when it becomes general , is presumed . but if the superiours take notice of it , and condemn it , it loses the force of custom , unless a new reason or higher authority appear for it . . but what is to be said for customs taken up without rules or canons ; of what force are they in point of conscience ? . it is certain , that no late customs brought in by such as have no authority to oblige , can bind others to follow them . for this were to lay open a gap to the introducing foolish and superstitious customs into the church , which would make distinctions without cause , and make way for differences and animosities , which all wise and good men will avoid as much as may be . it is a rule among the casuists , that voluntary customs , although introduced with a good mind , can never oblige others to observe them . and suarez yields , that a bare frequent repetition of acts cannot bind others , although it hath been of long continuance . . if the customs be such as are derived from the primitive times , and continue in practice , there is no reason to oppose , but rather to comply with them ; or if they tend to promote a delight in god's service . as for instance : . worshipping towards the east , was a very ancient custom in the christian church . i grant that very insufficient reasons are given for it ; which origen would not have men to be too busie in inquiring into , but to be content that it was a generally received practice , even in his time ; and so doth clemens alexandrinus before him , who thinks it relates to christ , as the sun of righteousness . tertullian and s. basil own the custom , and give no reason . but of all customs that of contention and singularity , where there is no plain reason against them , doth the least become the church of god. . the use of organical musick in the publick service . if it tends to compose , and settle , and raise the spirits of men in the acts of worship , i see no reason can be brought against it . if it be said to be only a natural delight , that reason will hold against david , who appointed it by god's own commandment . they who call it levitical service , can never prove it to be any of the typical ceremonies , unless they can shew what was represented by it . i come now to the measure of the obligation of the canons in force . and therein a great regard is to be had to the intention of that authority which enjoyns them ; and that is to be gathered from three things ; . the matter . . the words and sense of the church . . the penalty . . as to the matter . if it be in it self weighty , and tends to promote that which is good and pious , and for the honour of god , and service of religion , it cannot be denied but these canons do oblige in conscience . bellarmin distinguishes between laws of the church , which , he saith , are very few , and pious admonitions and good orders , which are not intended to oblige men to sin , but only in case of contempt and scandal . and as to the feasts and fasts of the church , which belong to the laws , he saith , they have mitissimam obligationem ; so any one would think , who considers how many are exempted , and for what reasons . gerson saith , that no human constitutions bind as to moral sin , unless it be founded on the law of god ; as he confesses the church's authority is , as to circumstances ; and then he thinks it obliges in conscience . the substance of his opinion , which hath been much disputed and controverted by modern casuists , lies in these things : . that where ecclesiastical constitutions do inforce any part of the law of god , although it be not expresly contained therein , they do immediately bind the consciences of men. . that where they tend to the good of the church , and the preservation of decency and order , they do so far oblige , that the contempt of authority therein , is a sin against the law of god. . that where the injunctions of authority are for no other end , but to be obeyed , he doth not think that there is any strict obligation in point of conscience . and so far cajetan agrees with him . and although the other casuists seem to be very angry with him , yet when they require a publick good , and the order of the church to be the reason of ecclesiastical laws , they do , in effect , agree with him . now as to the matter of our canons which respect the clergy , there are two especially which bind them strictly ; . the canon about sobriety of conversation , can. . yes , some may say , as far as the law of god obliges , i.e. to temperance and sobriety ; but the canon forbids resorting to taverns , or alebouses , or playing at dice , cards , or tables ; doth this canon oblige in conscience in this manner ? if it were a new thing that were forbidden , there were some plea against the severity of it ; but frequenting publick houses is forbidden by the apostolical canons , which are of great antiquity , by the council of laodicea , and in trullo , and many others since . and by the apostolical canons any presbyter playing at dice , and continuing so to do after admonition , is to be deprived . the illiberitan council makes it excommunication to play at dice . not meerly for the images of the gentile gods upon them , as albaspinaeus thinks , but because the thing it self was not of good report , even among the gentiles themselves ; as appears by cicero , ovid , suetonius , &c. as giving too great occasion for indecent passions , and of the loss of time . hostiensis reckons up sixteen vices that accompany it , which a clergyman especially ought to avoid . and playing at dice was infamous by the civil law. iustinian forbids clergymen not only playing , but being present at it . it was forbidden in the old articles of visitation here , and in several diocesan synods , spelm. ii. , , , , . so that there can be no reason to complain of the severity of this canon , which so generally obtained in the christian church . ii. the canons which relate to ministers discharging the several duties of their function , in preaching , praying , administring sacraments , catechizing , visiting the sick , &c. which are intended to inforce an antecedent duty ; which we can never press you too much or too earnestly to ; considering that the honour of religion , and the salvation of your own and the peoples souls depend upon it . ( . ) the next way of judging the church's intention , is by the words and sense of the church . cajetan thinks the general sense is the best rule . navarr saith to the same purpose , although some words are stricter than others . suarez , that the main obligation depends on the matter , but the church's intention may be more expressed by special words of command . tolet relies most upon the sense of the church : but the sense of the church must be understood , whether it be approving , or recommending , or strictly commanding , according to the obligation of affirmative precepts , which makes a reasonable allowance for circumstances . and so our church in some cases expresly allows reasonable impediments . and in precepts of abstinence , we must distinguish the sense of the church , as to moral abstinence , i.e. subduing the flesh to the spirit ; and a ritual abstinence in a meer difference of meats , which our church lays no weight upon ; and a religious abstinence for a greater exercise of prayer and devotion , which our church doth particularly recommend at particular seasons , which i need not mention . ( . ) by the penalties annexed , which you may find by reading over the canons , which you ought to do frequently and seriously , in order to your own satisfaction about your duties , and the obligation to perform them . but some may think , that such penal canons oblige only to undergo the punishment . to which i answer , that the case is very different in an hypothetical law , as suarez calls it ; when laws are only conditional and disjunctive , either you must do so , or you must undergo such penalty , which is then looked on as a legal recompence ; and ecclesiastical constitutions , where obedience is chiefly intended , and the penalty is annexed only to inforce it , and to deterr others from disobedience . for no man can imagine that the church aims at any man's suspension or deprivation for it self , or by way of compensation for the breach of its constitutions . and now give me leave not only to put you in mind , but to press earnestly upon you the diligent performance of those duties , which by the laws of god and man , and by your own voluntary promises when you undertook the cure of souls , are incumbent upon you . it is too easie to observe , that those who have the law on their side , and the advantage of a national settlement , are more apt to be remiss and careless when they have the stream with them , than those who row against it , and therefore must take more pains to carry on their designs . as those who force a trade must use much more diligence , than those who go on in the common road of business . but what diligence others use in gaining parties , do you imploy in the saving their souls : which the people will never believe you are in earnest in , unless they observe you are very careful in saving your own by a conscientious discharge of your duties . they do not pretend to fineness of thoughts , and subtilty of reasoning , but they are shrewd judges whether men mean what they say , or not ; and they do not love to be imposed upon by such a sort of sophistry , as if they could think that they can have such a regard to their souls , who shew so little to their own . therefore let your unblameable and holy conversations , your charity and good works , your diligence and constancy in your duties , convince them that you are in earnest ; and they will hearken more to you , than if you used the finest speeches , and the most eloquent harangues in the pulpit to them . these , the people understand little , and value less ; but a serious , convincing , and affectionate way of preaching , is the most likely way to work upon them . if there be such a thing as another world , as no doubt there is , what can you imploy your time , and thoughts , and pains better about , than preparing the souls of your people for a happy eternity ? how mean are all other laborious trifles , and learned impertinencies , and busie inquiries , and restless thoughts , in comparison with this most valuable and happy imployment , if we discharge it well ? and happy is that man , who enjoys the satisfaction of doing his duty now , and much more happy will he be whom our lord , when he cometh , shall find so doing . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e pag. , &c. histoire des o●●●ages des scavans . août , . p. . notes for div a -e regino . l. . p. . hispan . concil . p. . regino collect. canon . lib. . p. . burchard . l. . c. , . gratian . q. . c. . hieron comment . ad titum . epist. ad 〈◊〉 advers . luciferian . hier. in psal. ad evagr. ad marcel . cyprian . ep. . aug. in ps. . . ambros. ad eph. . . cor. . . theod. ad tim. . . iren. l. . c. . iohn , . tim. . , , &c. . . . . . titus . . de voto & voti redempt . lyndw. f. . concil . anglic. vol. . f. . constit. othon . f. . concil . angl. vol. . f. . constit. provinc . de officio archi-presbyteri , f. . concil . anglic. vol. . p. . lyndw. v. latratuf . . v. pabulo v. dei. * prov. constit . de offic. arch-presbyt . f. . concil . anglic. vol. . p. . concil . anglic. vol. . p. , . concil . anglic. vol. p. . constit. de haeret . f. . lyndw. f. . c. dudum . clem. de sepulturis . io. de athon . in constitut. othobon . f. . c. dudum de sepulturis . non potest esse pastoris excusatio , si lupus oves comedit , & pastor nescit . extr. de reg. juris c. . reginald . praxis , l. . tr . . c. . p. . constit. provinc . de clericis non resid . c. quum hostis . ioh. athon . ad constit. othon . f. . reginald . ib. n. . can. relatum ex. de cleri●is non resid . lyndw. in c. ●uum hostis . residcant cum effectu . ioh. de athon . in constit. othon . f. . continui . can. extirpand . de praebend . & dign . de praesumpt . f. . . de cleri●● non resident . cum hostis , &c. lyndw. f. . ioh. de athon . in constit. othon . f. . otho de instit. vic. f. . othobon . f. . ioh. de athon . in constit. othon . can. quia nonnulli de clericis non resid . quadril . . . c. . plato de leg. l. . arist. polit. l. . c. . nicom . l. . c. . . c. . 〈◊〉 . . de 〈…〉 c. ▪ lyndw. pr●v . c●st . f. , . concil . anglic. vol. , . de c●nse●r . dist. . c. , . lynd. f. . . sciat . si enim habeant expensas & magistros , peccarent , nisi plus sciant quam laici . provine . constit . de sacra vnct. f. . concil . angl. . vol. p. . c●●cil . angl. 〈◊〉 . p. ● , ●● . 〈…〉 . p. ● . ● . . lyndw. f. . orig. in iur. h●m . . p. . ed. 〈◊〉 . . q. . c. . lyndw. ad l. de poenis . f. . extr. de priv. c. porro in gloss. in 〈…〉 . in ephes. hem. . concil . angl. tom. . p. , , . calvin . instit. l. . c. . n. . pet. martyr . l. c. l. . c. . n. . in cor. . p. . bucer in matth. . p. . i●●t . . inst. . provinc . cons. quum secund . f. . can. . rep. . * multa impediunt promovendum , quae non de●iciunt . gloss. in c. . de vit. & honest. cleric . c. christiano , f. . de iure patron . c. pastoralis officii . gloss. in can. & malitiose . moor el. . cr. . can. . cr. . leon. . regino l. . c. , , , , . baluz . ad reginon . p. . concil . anglic. vol. . f. . c. . q. . episcopum , regino . l. . c. . concil . braga . . 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▪ sect. . extr. de 〈◊〉 ordin . azor. p. . l. c. . barbosa de officio parochial . c. . n. . concil . angls . p. . angl. sacr. . . stub . vit. arch. h. huntingin angl. sacr. concil . angl. . . seld. . . l●st . . tit. h. . c. ● . can. . can. . notes for div a -e concil . angl. . . concil . angl. i. . egbert . dial. de eccles. instit . cum bedae epistol . ad egbert . dublin , . concil . angl. . . bed. t. . p. . alcuin . de offic c. . epist. . . de off. c. , bed. t. iv. . v. . ii. . viii . . august . in psal. . in psal. . . . de chordis . euseb. praep. l. . c. . ioseph . . c. appion . aben-ezra in exod. kimchi ad psal. . menass . concil . in exod. q. . aug. c. faust. l. . c. . c. adimant . c. . . de genes . ad lit . c. . . epist. ad ian. . c. . greg. epist. l. . c. . de consecr . dist. . c. . conc. narbon . can. . concil . cabil . c. . aquisgran . c. . arelat . vi. can. . rhem. . c. . paris . vi. l. . c. . de officio archipresbyt . f. . . aquin. in sent. l. . dist. . qu. . art. . . . . . ● . q. . . bell de cultu sanct. l. . c. . covarruv . car. resol . l. . c. . azor. t. . c. . q. . suarez de rel. tr. . l. . c. . n. . c. . n. , . waldens . t. . tit. . c. . ina ll. c. . withred . c. . alfred . c. , . athelst. c. . edgar . c. . ethelred . c. . canut . c. . concil . angl. ii. , , . pupill . oculi , part . . c. . homily of the place and time of prayer . eccles. polity , l. . n. . orig. in numer . hom. . c. . hom. . in levit. . chrysost. hom. . in matth. hom. in ioh. hom. . ad pop. antioch . hom. . in gen. de officio archipresbyt . v. sanctifices . alcuin . de offic. c. . wilt●em . in diptych . leod. c. . de cultu sanct. l. . c. . de feriis , f. . concil . angl. i. . soz. l. . c. . regest . l. . . concil . vasens . . c. . turon . . c. . arel . . c. . capitul . . . reginold . . . capit. . c. . erasm. praefat . ad eccles. sess. . c. . de reform . act. eccles. mediol . ● , . palaeot . de administr . eccles. bonon . part . . p. . godeau sur les ordres , p. . bordenave des eglis . cathedral . p. . tertul. de baptis . c. . leo ep. . ambros. serm. . theodulph . de ordine baptism . c. . alcuin . de bapt. cerem . p. . august . de symbol . ad catech. l. . c. . de fide & oper. c. . august . serm. . bed. l. . c. ● concil . in trullo , can. , . syn. a. & b. can. . duaren . de benef. l. . c. ▪ concil . angl. i. p. . theod. capit. , . l. l. canut . c. , . l. l. edmund . cap. . theod. capit. c. . regino i , . capit. l. . c. , . addit . . c. . gul. paris . de collat. benef. c. . perald . sum. vit. to. . de avarit . c. sect. . cantiprat . de apibus l. . c. . n. . hist. universit . paris . secul . . p. . aquin. quaest. quodlibet . q. . art. . caj . ad . . q. . r. . concil . tolet. . c. . c. . q. . c. . concil . paris . . c. . capit. l. . c. . capit. l. . c. . l. . c. . cajet . sum. v. benef. . . in. . . q. . r. . filliuc . tr. . c. . n. . concil . nanet . c. . regino inquisit . art. . baluz . append . ad regin . , , . thomassin , part. . c. . n. . can. apost . . nicen. c. . antioch . . laodic . . calced . , . cod. afric . c. . cresc . coll. tit. . concil . herudf , c. . can. edgar . . egbert . can. . capitul . l. ● . c. . concil . nannet . c. . concil . tolet. . c. . c. . q. . c. vnio . compegins de vnion . n. , , , &c. azor. p. . l. . c. . flam. paris . de resign . l. . c. . n. . addit . . n. . notes for div a -e baluz . ad capit. selden of tithes , p. . bignon . ad form. marc. p. . sirmond . ad capit. p. . lyndw. f. . extr. de censib . c. . c. . q. . c. . de consecr . d●st . . c. . c. . q. . c. . baluz . append . ad reginon . p. . ent. de eccles . aedific . c. ad audientium . seld. , . f. . capit. . c. . capit. , , . ivo p. . c. , . regino l. . c. . burch . l. . c. . c. . q. . c. . . concil . labb . t. . p. . filesaci opus . p. , &c. fragment . de majoribus pal. du chesn . t. . capit. l. . . regin . l. . , , , . inst. . b. capit. l. . c. . bignon . in marculph . l. . c. . aub. mirae . cod. donat. l. . c. . p. roverii reomaus , p. . de foro compet . f. . c. . q. . n. . concil . brac. . c. . de consecr . . c. . agabard . de dispens . c. . tertul. apolog. c. . cypr. ep. . ep. . ep. . selden of tithes , c. . n. . p. . spelm. con. p. . glanvil . l. . c. . spelm. concil . ii. p. . p. . p. . inst. . warwickshire , p. , &c. spelm. ii. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . lyndw. f. . spelm. ii. p. . spel. gloss. c. altarage . ioh. de burgo pupill . oculi , f. . b. spelm. ii. , . pupilla oculi , part. . c. . spel. concil . ● , . mon. i. . ● . inst. . hob. r. . regist. f. . moor. f. . bustrod . . . r. . hob. . . rolls r. . . poph. r. . law of tithes , c. . p. . inst. . select 〈◊〉 . . moor . ● . el. . 〈…〉 . f. n. b. . b. . rolls . march ▪ law of tithes ▪ . inst. . rolls , . cosin's apo● . p. . inst. . r. , . rolls . . lyndw. de decimis . c. sanct c. negotiat . selden of tithes , . cr. car. . hob. . . regist. . rolls . . hob. . cr. car. . rolls . . iones . hardres . inst. . rolls . . . yelv. . cr. iac. . law of tithes , . c. . inst. . law of tithes c. . cr. car. . iones , . f. n. b. . rolls . . . rolls , . . rolls , r. . . hetley , . littleton , . n. . rolls , . . march , . hetley , . rolls , . , . palmer , . cr. car. , . lyndw. . spel. ii. . hardr. . kebl . . . inst. . . . monast. i. . . . ii. . . lynd. f. . f. n. b. . inst. . hardres , . poph. . rolls , . , . bulst . . . rolls , . . poph. , . hardr. . law of tithes . hist. of tithes , . m●n . . ●punc ; . . l. l. saxon. wh. p. . spelm. concil . . l. l. canut . c. , , . seld of tithes , p. . p. . p. . r. . inst. . dyer , . brook , . cr. car. . palmer , . selden , . lyndw. . b. selden , . not. in decret . l. . c. . n. . innocent . . epist. . c. . monast. i. , , , , , , . ii. , . du fresn . e. appropr . monast. i. , . ii. , , , . iii. , . extr. de praeb . c. de monachis . ext. de praeb . c. avar. ext. de praeb . c. extirp . extr. de monachis , ubi supra . ext. de supplend . neglig . prael . sicut nobis . rolls , . . pro. const. de offic. vic. c. quoniam . of tithes , p. . miscel parl. . birchington , l. . lyndw. f. . sacerdos parochialis opposed to beneficiatus . lyndw. f. petr. cluniac . ep. l. . . d. . c. . c. . q. . c. , , , , , . mon. i. . rolls , r. . . mon. i. . rolls , r. . . cr. . . yelv. . hardr. . cr. el. . bulstr. . . palmer , . cr. ●ac . . cr. eliz. . moor , . hutton , . owen , , cr. car. . hutton ▪ . rolls , a. . . littleton , . hetley , . mon. ii. inst. . rot. parl. h. . . mon. ii. . cr. . . palm . . walsingh . . cr. . . pal. . extr. de de●imis . c. . inst. . popham ▪ ● . innocent . . epist. l. . ep. . coke r. . . moor , . cr. car. . cr. . . moor , . iones , bridgm. . latch . . rolls . r. . ▪ selden 〈◊〉 tithes , ▪ lynd. f. . lynd. f. . b. c. consuc● f. . lynd. f. . lynd. f. . b. selden of tithes , p. . coke r. . . cr. . . rolls , . moor , , . hob. . cr. el. . r. . hob. . moor , . moor , . seld. p. . p. . select cases , . registr . . b. inst. . bulst . . . march , . hob. . yelv. , . inst. . select cases , . inst. . loon. . . parson's coun. part. . c. . hob. . rolls , . rolls , . cr. el. . march , . cr. eliz. . c. select cases , . bulst . . . hob. . moor , . . c. r. . . moor , . mob . . r. . notes for div a -e inst. . b. . b. . preface to r. sir iohn davis pref. hales history and analysis of the law , ms. inst. . b. inst. . b. grot. de j. b. & p. l. . c. . sect. . bract. l. . c. . l. . c. . n. . l. . c. . n. . c. . littl. ten. sect. . glanv . prol. dr. and st. c. . spel. con. i. p. . rolls , . . bulst . . . brownl . . . keble , . . panor . in c. cum olim . moor , r. . inst. 〈◊〉 . ventris , ii. . . godol . , . rolls r. . . . de offic. archdiac . gloss. in const. oth. p. . ventris , ii. . inst. . r. . 〈…〉 . i. . 〈◊〉 . a. . anderson , ii. . inst. . b. r. . palmer , . iones , . quo warranto , . 〈…〉 sect. . sect. . selden of tithes , p. . ●ordenave , f. . inst. . c. . . inst. . inst. . prooem . to inst. inst. . stat. de merton . c. . glanvil . l. . ● . . stat. de bigamis . c. . popham , . spel. conc● . . de eili●● presbyt . cum à jure sit inhibit . lyndw. f. . latch . . popham , . leon. i. . hugh's pars. law , c. . lyndw. f. . leon. i. . r. . rolls a. ● . reg. . b. inst. . spel. concil . ii. . iones , . latch . . plamer , . . vaugh. . . . vaugh. . bagshaw's arg. about the canons , p. . inst. . annal. bur●on , . car. . c. . eadmer . hist. p. . hoveden , p. . ●pel . ii. . ventris rep. ii. . gers●● de vit. spirit . lect. . cor. . cajet . sum. in verb. so●o de iust. l. . q. . art. . ad . sayr . clavis reg. l. . c. 〈◊〉 . n. . caj . ad . . q. . art. . suar. de leg. l. . c. . n. . roch. curt. de statut. sect. . n. , . sect. . n. , , , . soto , l. . q. . art. . suarez , de ll. l. . c. . , . origen . in numer . hom. . clem. alex. str. l. . tertul. apol. c. . basil. de sp. sancto c. . chron. . . bell. de r. d. l. . c. . de vit. spir. lect. . cor. . coroll . . cajet . sum. . contempt . &c. clerico● rum . can. apost . . laodicea , . in trullo , . carthag . . dist. . , , . aquisgr . c. . francf . c. . aquisgr . . c. . extr. de vit. & honest. cleric . c. . conc. west●●●n . c. . spelm. ii. . lynd. l. . c. . concil . illiber . can. . cicero phil. . ovid de a. a. l. . suet. in aug ▪ c. . hostiens . sum. d. . de excess . praelat . d. de aleat . l. . cujac . observ. l. . c. . c. de episcop . audient . caj . & prae●ept . navar. man. c. . n. , &c. suarez de ll. l. . c. . tolet. sum●● l. . c. . n. . the unreasonableness of separation, or, an impartial account of the history, nature, and pleas of the present separation from the communion of the church of england to which, several late letters are annexed, of eminent protestant divines abroad, concerning the nature of our differences, and the way to compose them / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the unreasonableness of separation, or, an impartial account of the history, nature, and pleas of the present separation from the communion of the church of england to which, several late letters are annexed, of eminent protestant divines abroad, concerning the nature of our differences, and the way to compose them / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], xciv, [ ], p. printed by t.n. for henry mortlock ..., london : . includes bibliographical references. errata: p. [ ] in third grouping. advertisement: p. . reproduction of original in duke university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -- history. schism. dissenters, religious -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the vnreasonableness of separation : or , an impartial account of the history , nature , and pleas of the present separation from the communion of the church of england . to which , several late letters are annexed , of eminent protestant divines abroad , concerning the nature of our differences , and the way to compose them. by edward stillingfleet , d. d. dean of st. pauls , and chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london , printed by t. n. for henry mortlock , at the phoenix in st. paul ' s church-yard . mdclxxxi . the preface . it is reported by persons of unquestionable credit , that after all the service b. jewel had done against the papists , upon his preaching a sermon at st. paul's - cross , in defence of the orders of this church , and of obedience to them , he was so ungratefully and spitefully used by the dissenters of that time , that for his own vindication he made a solemn protestation on his death-bed , that what he then said , was neither to please some , nor to displease others , but to promote peace and unity among brethren . i am far from the vanity of thinking , any thing i have been able to do , in the same cause , fit to be compared with the excellent labors of that great light , and ornament of this church , ( whose memory is preserved to this day , with due veneration in all the protestant churches ; ) but the hard usage i have met with , upon the like occasion , hath made such an example more observable to me ; especially when i can make the same protestation , with the same sincerity as he did . for , however it hath been maliciously suggested by some , and too easily believed by others , that i was put upon that work , with a design to inflame our differences , and to raise a fresh persecution against dissenting protestants ; i was so far from any thought tending that way , that the only motive i had to undertake it , was , my just apprehension , that the destruction of the church of england , under a pretence of zeal against popery , was one of the most likely ways to bring it in . and i have hitherto seen no cause ( and i believe i shall not ) to alter my opinion in this matter ; which was not rashly taken up , but formed in my mind from many years observation of the proceedings of that restless party ( i mean the papists ) among us ; which hath always aimed at the ruine of this church , as one of the most probable means , if others failed , to compass their ends. as to their secret and more compendious ways of doing mischief , they lie too far out of our view , till the providence of god , at the same time , discovers and disappoints them ; but this was more open and visible , and although it seemed the farther way about , yet they promised themselves no small success by it . many instruments and engines they made use of in this design ; many ways and times they set about it , and although they met with several disappointments , yet they never gave it over ; but , would it not be very strange , that when they can appear no longer in it , others , out of meer zeal against popery , should carry on the work for them ? this seems to be a great paradox to unthinking people , who are carried away with meer noise and pretences , and hope those will secure them most against the fears of popery , who talk with most passion , and with least understanding against it ; whereas no persons do really give them greater advantages than these do . for , where they meet only with intemperate railings , and gross misunderstandings of the state of the controversies between them and us ( which commonly go together ) the more subtle priests let such alone to spend their rage and fury ; and when the heat is over , they will calmly endevour to let them see , how grosly they have been deceived in some things , and so will more easily make them believe , they are as much deceived in all the rest . and thus the east and west may meet at last ; and the most furious antagonists may become some of the easiest converts . this i do really fear will be the case of many thousands among us , who now pass for most zealous protestants ; if ever , which god forbid , that religion should come to be vppermost in england . it is therefore of mighty consequence for preventing the return of popery , that men rightly understand what it is . for , when they are as much afraid of an innocent ceremony , as of real idolatry ; and think they can worship images , and adore the host on the same grounds , that they may use the sign of the cross , or kneel at the communion ; when they are brought to see their mistake in one case , they will suspect themselves deceived in the other also . for they who took that to be popery which is not , will be apt to think popery it self not so bad as it was represented , and so from want of right understanding the differences between us , may be easily carried from one extreme to the other . for , when they find the undoubted practices of the ancient church condemned as popish and antichristian by their teachers , they must conclude popery to be of much greater antiquity than really it is ; and when they can trace it so very near the apostles times , they will soon believe it setled by the apostles themselves . for , it will be very hard to perswade any considering men that the christian church should degenerate so soon , so unanimously , so universally , as it must do , if episcopal government , and the use of some significant ceremonies were any parts of that apostacy . will it not seem strange to them , that when some human polities have preserved their first constitution so long , without any considerable alteration , that the government instituted by christ , and setled by his apostles , should so soon after be changed into another kind , and that so easily , so insensibly , that all the christian churches believed , they had still the very same government which the apostles left them ? which is a matter so incredible , that those who can believe such a part of popery could prevail so soon in the christian church ; may be brought upon the like grounds to believe , that many others did . so mighty a prejudice doth the principles of our churches enemies , bring upon the cause of the reformation . and those who foregoe the testimony of antiquity , as all the opposers of the church of england must do , must unavoidably run into insuperable difficulties in dealing with the papists , which the principles of our church do lead us through . for we can justly charge popery as an unreasonable innovation , when we allow the undoubted practices and government of the ancient church , for many ages after christ. but it is observed by bishop sanderson , that those who reject the usages of our church as popish and antichristian , when assaulted by papists , will be apt to conclude popery to be the old religion , which in the purest and primitive times was professed in all christian churches throughout the world. whereas the sober english protestant , is able , by the grace of god , with much evidence of truth , and without forsaking his old principles , to justifie the church of england from all imputation of heresie or schism , and the religion thereof , as it stood by law established , from the like imputation of novelty . wherein he professes to lay open the inmost thoughts of his heart in this sad business before god and the world. i might shew , by particular instances , from my present adversaries , that to defend their own practices they are driven to maintain such principles , as by evident consequences from them , do overthrow the justice and equity of the reformation ; but i leave those things to be observed in their proper places : yet i do not question the sincerity of many mens zeal against popery , who , out of too eager a desire of upholding some particular fancies of their own , may give too great advantage to our common enemies . three ways bishop sanderson observes , our dissenting brethren , though not intentionally and purposely , yet really and eventually have been the great promoters of the roman interest among us . ( . ) by putting to their helping hand to the pulling down of episcopacy . and , saith he , it is very well known to many what rejoycing that vote brought to the romish party : how even in rome it self they sung their jo-●aeans upon the tidings thereof , and said triumphantly , now the day is ours ; now is the fatal-blow given to the protestant religion in england . ( ) by opposing the interest of rome with more violence than reason . ( ) by frequent mistaking the question ; but especially through the necessity of some false principle or other , which , having once imbibed , they think themselves bound to maintain : whatever becomes of the common cause of our reformation . which may at last suffer as much through some mens folly and indiscretion , who pretend to be the most zealous protestants , as by all the arts and designs of our open enemies . for , as the same learned and iudicious bishop , hath said in this case , many a man , when he thought most to make it sure , hath quite marred a good business , by over-doing it . thus when the papists of late years , have not been able to hinder the taking many things into consideration , against their interest , it hath been observed , that their instruments have been for the most violent counsels , knowing , that either they would be wholly ineffectual , or if they were pursued , they might in the end bring more advantage than prejudice to their cause . and it is to be feared , they may still hope to do their business , as divines observe the devil doth ; who , when he finds one extreme will not do , he tries whether he can compass his end by the other : and no doubt they will extremely rejoyce , if they can make some mens fears of popery , prove at last an effectual means to bring it about . as some of the jews of old , out of a rash and violent zeal for the preservation of the purity of their religion ( as they pretended ) by opposing the sacrifices offer'd by strangers , and denying the use of the lawful customs of their country , brought the roman power upon them , and so hasten'd the destruction both of their religion and countrey too . i do not mention this , as though we could take too great care by good and wholsom laws to strengthen the protestant interest , and by that means , to keep out popery ; but only to shew , what mighty prejudice an indiscreet zeal at this time may bring upon us ; if men suffer themselves to be transported so far as to think that overthrowing the constitution of this church will be any means to secure the protestant religion among us . for , what is it which the papists have more envied and maligned than the church of england ? what is it they have more wished to see broken in pieces ? as the late cardinal barberini said in the hearing of a gentleman who told it me , he could be contented there were no priests in england , so there were no bishops ; for then he supposed , their work would do it self . what is it they have used more arts and instruments to destroy , than the constitution and government of this church ? did not cranmer and ridley , and hooper , and farrar , and latimer , all bishops of this church , suffer martyrdom by their means ? had not they the same kind of episcopacy which is now among us ; and which some now are so busie in seeking to destroy ; by publishing one book after another , on purpose to represent it as unlawful and inconsistent with the primitive institution ? is all this done for the honor of our reformation ? is this the way to preserve the protestant religion among us ; to fill mens minds with such prejudices against the first settlement of it ; as to go about to make the world believe , that the church-government then established was repugnant to the institution of christ ; and that our martyr-bishops exercised an unlawful authority over diocesan churches ? but , whither will not mens indiscreet zeal , and love of their own fancies carry them , especially after years prescription ? i do not say such men are set on by the jesuits , but i say , they do their work as effectually , in blasting the credit of the reformation , as if they were . and yet after all these pains , and forty years meditations , i do not question but i shall make it appear , that our present episcopacy , is agreeable to the institution of christ , and the best and most flourishing churches . and , wherein doth our church differ from its first establishment ? were not the same ceremonies then appointed ? the same liturgy in substance then used ? concerning which dr. taylor who then suffered martyrdom , publickly declared ; that the whole church-service was set forth in king edward ' s days , with great deliberation , by the advice of the best learned men in the realm , and authorised by the whole parliament , and received and published gladly through the whole realm ; which book was never reformed but once , and yet by that one reformation , it was so fully perfected , according to the rules of our christian religion in every behalf , that no christian conscience could be offended with any thing therein contained , i mean , saith he , of that book reformed . yet this is that book , whose constant use is now pleaded by some , together with our ceremonies , as a ground for the necessity of separation from our churches communion . but if we trace the footsteps of this separation as far as we can , we may find strong probabilities , that the jesuitical party had a great influence on the very first beginnings of it . for which , we must consider , that when the church of england was restored in queen elizabeth's reign , there was no open separation from the communion of it , for several years , neither by papists , nor non-conformists . at last , the more zealous party of the foreign priests and jesuits , finding this compliance would in the end utterly destroy the popish interest in england , they began to draw off the secret papists from all conformity with our church , which the old queen mary's priests allowed them in : this raised some heat among themselves , but at last the way of separation prevailed , as the more pure and perfect way . but this was not thought sufficient by these busie factors for the church of rome , unless they could , under the same pretence of purity and perfection , draw off protestants from the communion of this church too . to this purpose persons were imployed under the disguise of more zealous protestants , to set up the way of more spiritual prayer , and greater purity of worship than was observed in the church of england : that so the people , under these pretences , might be drawn into separate meetings . of this we have a considerable evidence lately offer'd to the world , in the examination of a priest so imploy'd at the council-table , a. d. . being the th of q. elizabeth , which is published from the lord burleighs papers , which were in the hands of arch-bishop usher , and from him came to sir james ware , whose son brought them into england , and lately caused them to be printed . two years after , one heath a jesuit was summon'd before the bishop of rochester on a like account , for disparaging the prayers of the church , and setting up spiritual prayers above them ; and he declared to the bishop , that he had been six years in england , and that he had laboured to refine the protestants , and to take off all smacks of ceremonies , and to make the church purer . when he was seized on , a letter was found about him from a jesuit in spain , wherein he takes notice , how he was admired by his flock ; and tells him , they looked on this way of dividing protestants as the most effectual to bring them all back to the church of rome ; and in his chamber , they found a bull from pius v. to follow the instructions of the society for dividing the protestants in england ; and the license from his fraternity . there is one thing in the jesuits letter deserves our farther consideration , which the publisher of it did not understand : which is , that hallingham , coleman , and benson are there mentioned , as persons imploy'd to sow a faction among the german hereticks ; which he takes to be spoken of the sects in germany ; but by the german hereticks the english protestants are meant , i.e. lutherans : and these very men are mentioned by our historians , without knowing of this letter , as the most active and busie in the beginning of the separation . of these ( saith fuller ) coleman , button , hallingham and benson were the chief . at which time ( saith heylin ) benson , button , hallingham , and coleman , and others taking upon them to be of more ardent zeal than others , &c. that time is , which agrees exactly with the date of that letter at madrid , october . . and both these had it from a much better author than either of them ; camden i mean ; who saith , that while harding , sanders , and others attacked our church on one side ; coleman , button , hallingham , benson , and others were as busie on the other ; who , under pretence of a purer reformation , opposed the discipline , liturgy , and calling of our bishops , as approaching too near to the church of rome . and he makes these the beginners of those quarrels which afterwards brake out with great violence . now , that there is no improbability in the thing , will appear by the suitableness of these pretences about spiritual prayer , to the doctrine and practices of the jesuits . for they are professed despisers of the cathedral service , and are excused from their attendance on it by the constitutions of their order ; and are as great admirers of spiritual prayer , and an enthusiastick way of preaching , as appears by the history of the first institution of their order , by orlandinus and maffeius . they who are acquainted with their doctrine of spiritual prayer , will find that which is admired and set up here , as so much above set-forms , to be one of the lowest of three sorts among them . that gift of prayer which men have , but requires the exercise of their own gifts to stir it up , they call oratio acquisita , acquired prayer ; although they say , the principle of it is infused . the second is , by a special immediate influence of the holy ghost upon the mind , with the concurrence of infused habits . the third is far above either of these , which they call the prayer of contemplation , and is never given by way of habit to any ; but lies in immediate and unexpressible unions . all these i ●ould easily shew to be the doctrine received and magnified in the roman church , especially by those who pretend to greater purity and spirituality than others . but this is sufficient to my purpose , to prove , that there is no improbability that they should be the first setters up of this way in england . and it is observable , that it was never known here , or in any other reformed church before this time : and therefore the beginning of it is unjustly father'd by some on t. c. but by whomsoever it was begun , it met with such great success in the zeal and warmth of devotion which appeared in it , that no charm hath been more effectual , to draw injudicious people into a contempt of our liturgy , and admiring the way of separation . when by such arts the people were possessed with an opinion of a more pure and spiritual way of worship than was used in our church , they were easily drawn into the admiration of those , who found fault with the liturgy and ceremonies that were used among us ; and so the divisions wonderfully increased in a very short time . and the papists could not but please themselves to see that other men did their vvork so effectually for them . for the authors of the admonition elizab. declared , they would have neither papists nor others constrained to communicate : which although , as arch-bishop whitgift saith , they intended as a plea for their own separation from the church , yet , saith he , the papists could not have met with better proctors . and elsewhere he tells them , that they did the pope very good service , and that he would not miss them for any thing . for what is his desire but to have this church of england ( which he hath accused ) utterly defaced and discredited , to have it by any means overthrown , if not by forrein enemies , yet by domestical dissention . and , what fitter and apter instruments could he have had for that purpose than you , who under pretence of zeal , overthrow that which other men have builded , under color of purity , seek to bring in deformity , and under the cloke of equality and humility , would usurp as great tyranny and lofty lordliness over your parishes , as ever the pope did over the whole church ? and in another place , he saith , they were made the engines of the roman conclave , whereby they intend to overthrow this church by our own folly , which they cannot compass by all their policy . arch-bishop grindal ( as i find a letter of his ) expressed his great fear of two things , atheism and popery , and both arising out of our needless divisions and differences , fomented , he doubts not by satan the enemy of mankind , and the pope the enemy of christendom . by these differences , the enemies of our religion gain this , that nothing can be established by law in the protestant religion , whose every part is opposed by one or other of her own professors ; so that things continuing loose and confused , the papists have their opportunity to urge their way , which is attended with order and government , and our religion continuing thus distracted and divided , some vile wretches lay hold of the arguments on one side to confute the other ; and so hope at last to destroy all . dr. sutcliffe said long ago , that wise men apprehended these unhappy questions about indifferent things to be managed by the subtle jesuits , thereby to disturb the peace and settlement of our church , until at last they enjoy their long expected opportunity to set up themselves , and restore the exploded tyranny and idolatry of the church of rome . among mr. selden's mss. there is mention●d an odd prophecy , that popery should decay about , and be restored about , which is there said to be most likely by means of our divisions , which threaten the reformation , upon the interest of religion , and open advantages to the enemies of it , and nothing is there said to be so likely to prevent it as a firm establishment of sound doctrine , discipline , and worship in this church . among the iesuit contzens directions for reducing popery into a country , the most considerable are , ( . ) that it be done under a pretence of ease to tender consciences , which will gain a reputation to the prince , and not seem to be done from his own inclination , but out of kindness to his people . ( . ) that when liberty is granted , then the parties be forbid to contend with each other , for that will make way the more easily for one side to prevail , and the prince will be commended for his love of peace . ( ) that those , who suspect the design , and preach against it , be traduced as men that prea●h very unseasonable doctrine , that the●● are proud , self-opiniators , and enemies to peace and union . but , the special advice he gives to a catholick prince , is , ( . ) to make as much use of the divisions of his enemies , as of the agreement of his friends . how much the popish party here hath followed these counsels , will easily appear by reflection upon their behaviour these last twenty years . but that which more particularly reaches to our own case , is , the letter of advice given to f. young , by seignior ballarini , concerning the best way of managing the popish interest in england , upon his majesties restauration , wherein are several very remarkable things . this letter was found in f. young's study , after his death , and was translated out of italian , and printed in the collection before mention'd ; the first advice is , to make the obstruction of settlement their great design , especially upon the fundamental constitutions of the kingdom , whereunto if things should fall , they would be more firm than ever . ( . ) the next thing is , to remove the jealousies raised by prin , baxter , &c. of their design upon the late factions ; and to set up the prosperous way of fears and jealousies of the king and bishops . ( . ) to make it appear under-hand , how near the doctrine , worship , and discipline of the church of england comes to us : at how little distance their common-prayer is from our mass ; and that the wisest and ablest men of that way are so moderate , that they would willingly come over to us , or at least meet us half way ; hereby the more stayed men will become more odious , and others will run out of all religion for fear of popery . ( . ) let there be an indulgence promoted by the factious , and seconded by you . ( . ) that the trade and treasure of the nation may be engrossed between themselves and other discontented parties . ( . ) that the bishops and ministers of the church of england be aspersed , as either worldly and careless on the one hand ; or so factious on the other , that it were well they were removed . these are some of those excellent advices then given , and how well they have been followed we all know . for , according to this counsel , when they could not hinder the settlement then , the great thing they aimed at for many years , was , the breaking in pieces the constitution of this church by a general toleration . this coleman owned at his trial , and after sentence , declared , that possibly he might be of an opinion , that popery might come in , if liberty of conscience had been granted . the author of the two conferences between l'chese and the four jesuits , owns the declaration of indulgence , / , to be of the papists procuring ; but he saith , the presbyterians presently suspected the kindness , and like wise men closed with the conformists ; and refused the bait , however specious it seemed , when they saw the hook that lay under it . it was so far from this , that when one of the furious dissenters , suspected the kindness , and made queries upon the declaration , wherein he represented it as a stratagem to introduce popery , and arbitrary government ; one of the more moderate party among them , wrote a publick vindication of their accepting the licences , wherein he declared to the world , in their name , that they were not concerned what the secret design might be , so long as the thing was good and why , saith he , do you insinuate jealousies ? have not we publick , and the papists only private allowance ? in fine , we are thankful for the honor put upon us to be publick in our meetings . was this the suspicion they had of the kindness , and their wisdom in joyning with the conformists ? if such bold and notorious vntruths are published now , when every one that can remember but years backward , can disprove them , what account may we expect will be given to posterity of the passages of these times , if others do not take care to set them right ? and i am so far from believing that they then closed with the conformists , that i date the presbyterian separation chiefly from that time . for , did not they take out indulgences , build meeting places , and keep up separate congregations ever since ? and did not those , who before seem'd most inclinable to hold communion with our churches , then undertake in print to defend the lawfulness of these separate meetings upon such principles as will justifie any separation ? vpon this , many of those who frequented our churches before , withdrew themselves ; and since they have formed and continued separate bodies ; and upon the death of one minister have chosen another in his room . and , what is a formal separation if this be not ? then the ejected ministers resorted to cities and corporations , not to supply the necessities of those who wanted them , but to gather churches among them . for a very credible person informs us , that in the city he lived in , where there were not above or that ordinarily refused the publick , and met privately before the indulgence ; there were ten non-conformist ministers that came into their city . and , what could this be for , but to draw people from their churches , to make up separate congregations ? and ever since that time , they have been hammering out principles , such as they are , to justifie their own practices . but the presbyterians did not joyn with the papists for a general toleration . i grant some of them did not , although very powerful charm's were at that time used to draw them in : and not a few swallowed the specious bait , although some had the skill to disentangle themselves from the hook which went along with it . but that this honor doth not belong vniversally to them , i shall thus evidently prove . in a. d. there was a book printed , entituled , the peaceable design , or an account of the non-conformists meetings , by some ministers of london . in it an objection is thus put ; but what shall we say then to the p●pists ? the answer is , the papist in our account is but one sort of recusants , and the conscientious and peaceable among them , must be held in the same predicament with those among our selves , that likewise refuse to come to common prayer . what is this , but joyning for a toleration of popery ? if this be not plain enough , these words follow , but as for the common papist , who lives innocently in his way , he is to us as other separatists , and so comes under like toleration . this notable book , with some few additions and alterations , hath been since printed , and with great sincerity called , an answer to my sermon . and the times being changed since , the former passage is thus alter'd , the papist is one , whose worship to us is idolatry , and we cannot therefore allow them the liberty of publick assembling themselves , as others of the separation . is it idolatry , and not to be tolerated in ? and was it idolatry and to be tolerated in ? or was it no idolatry then , but is become so now , and intolerable idolatry too ? the latter passage hath these alterations ; in stead of , he is to us as other separatists , and so comes under the like toleration ; these are put in , he is to us , in regard of what he doth in private , in the matter of his god , as others who likewise refuse to come to common prayer . now we see toleration struck out for the papists ; but it was not only visible enough before , but that very book was printed with a design to present it to the parliament , which was the highest way of owning their concurrence with the papists for a general toleration . and the true reason of this alteration is , that then was then , and now is now . and to shew yet farther , what influence the jesuitical counsels have had upon their people , as to the course of separation ; i shall produce the testimony of a very considerable person among them , who understood those affairs as well as any man , viz mr. ph. nye . vvho , not long before his death , foreseeing the mischievous consequence of those extravagant heats , the people were running into , vvrote a discourse on purpose , to prove it lawful to hear the conforming ministers , and answers all the common objections against it ; towards the c●nclusion he wonders , how the differing parties came to be so agreed , in thinking it unlawful to hear us preach ; but he saith , he is perswaded it is one constant design of satan in the variety of ways of religion he hath set on foot by jesuits among us . let us therefore be more aware of whatsoever tends that way . here we have a plain confession of a leading man among the dissenters , that the jesuits were very busie among them , and that they and the devil joyned together in setting them at the greatest distance possible from the church of england ; and that those who would countermine the devil and the jesuits , must avoid whatever tends to that height of separation the people were run into . and mr. baxter , in those days , viz. but a little before the indulgence came out , was so sensible of the mischief of separation , that he saith , our division gratifieth the papists , and greatly hazardeth the protestant religion , and that more than most of your seem to believe , or to regard . vvhere he speaks to the separating people . and among other great inconveniencies of separation , which he mentions , this is one , that popery will get by it so great advantage as may hazard us all , and we may lose that , which the several parties do contend about . two ways especially popery will grow out of our divisions . ( . ) by the odium and scorn of our disagreements , inconsistency , and multiplied sects : they will perswade people , that we must come for unity to them , or else run mad , and crumble into dust and individuaals . thousands have been drawn to popery , or confirmed in it by this argument already ; and i am perswaded , that all the arguments else in bellarmin , and all other books that ever were written , have not done so much to make papists in england , as the multitude of sects among our selves . yea , some professors of religious strictness , of great esteem for godliness , have turned papists themselves , when they were giddy and wearied with turnings ; and when they had run from sect to sect , and found no consistency in any . ( . ) either the papists by increasing the divisions , would make them be accounted seditious , rebellious , dangerous to the publick peace ; or else when so many parties are constrained to beg and wait for liberty , the papists may not be shut out alone , but have toleration with the rest . and , saith he , shall they use our hands to do their works , and pull their freedom out of the fire ? we have already unspeakably served them , both in this , and in abating the odium of the gunpowder plot , and their other treasons , insurrections , and spanish invasion . thus freely did mr. baxter vvrite at that time ; and even after the indulgence , he hath these passages , concerning the separating and dividing humor of their people ; it shameth , it grieveth us to see and hear from england , and from new england this common cry , we are endanger'd by divisions , principally because the self-conceited part of the religious people , will not be ruled by their pastors , but must have their way , and will needs be rulers of the church and them . and soon after he saith to them , you have made more papists than ever you or we are like to recover . nothing is any whit considerable that a papist hath to say , till he cometh to your case , and saith , doth not experience tell you , that without papal unity and force , these people will never be ruled , or united ? it is you that tempt them to use fire and faggot , that will not be ruled nor kept in concord , by the wisest , and holyest , and most self-denying ministers upon earth . ( are not these kind words for themselves , considering what he gives to others ? ) and must you , even you , that should be our comfort , become our shame , and break our hearts , and make men papists by your temptation ? wo to the world because of offences , and wo to some by whom they come . let now any impartial reader iudge , who did most effectually serve the papists designs , those who kept to the communion of the church of england , or those who fell into the course of separation ? i will allow , what mr. baxter saith , that they might use their endeavors to exasperate the several parties against each other ; and might sometimes press the more rigorous execution of laws against them ; but then it was to set them at the greater distance from us , and to make them more pliable to a general toleration and they sometimes complained , that those who were most adverse to this , found themselves under the severity of the law , when more tractable men escaped ; which they have weakly imputed to the implacable temper of the bishops , when they might easily understand the true cause of such a discrimination : but from the whole it appears , that the grand design of the papists for many years , was to break in pieces the constitution of the church of england ; which being done , they flatter'd themselves with the hopes of great accessions to their strength and party ; and in order to this , they inflamed the differences among us to the utmost height , on purpose to make all the dissenting parties to joyn with them for a general toleration ; which they did not question would destroy this church , and advance their interest . whether they did judge truly in this , i am not to determine ; it is sufficient that they went upon the greatest probabilities . but , is it possible to imagine such skilful engineers should use so much art and industry to undermine and blow up a bulwark , unless they hoped to gain the place , or at lest some very considerable advantage to themselves by it ? and it is a most unfortunate condition our church is in , if those who design to bring in popery , and those who design to keep it out , should both conspire towards its destruction . this , which i have represented , was the posture of our church-affairs , when the late horrible plot of the papists , for destruction of the kings person , and subversion of our religion came to be discover'd . it seems , they found the other methods tedious and uncertain ; and they met with many cross accidents , many rubs and disappointments in their way ; and therefore they resolved upon a summary way of proceeding , and to do their business by one blow . vvhich , in regard of the circumstances of our affairs , is so far from being incredible , that if they had no such design , it is rather a vvonder , they had not ; especially considering the allowed principles and practices in the church of rome . upon the discovery of the plot , and the means of papists used confirm the truth of it ( knowing our great proneness to infidelity ) by the murder of a worthy gentleman who received the depositions , the nation was extremely alarm'd with the apprehensions of popery , and provoked to the utmost detestation of it . those who had been long apprehensive of their restless designs , were glad to see others awaken'd ; but they seemed like men roused out of a deep sleep , being amazed and confounded , fearful of every thing , and apt to mistrust all persons who were not in such a consternation as themselves . during this heat , some of us , both in private , and publick , endeavor'd to bring the dissenters to the sense of the necessity of union among protestants , hoping the apprehension of present danger , common to us all , would have disposed them to a better inclination to the things which belong to our peace . but finding the nation thus vehemently bent against popery , those who had formerly carried it so smoothly and fairly towards the common and innocent papists ( as they then stiled them ) and thought them equally capable of toleration with themselves , now they fly out into the utmost rage against them ; and others were apt , by sly insinuations , to represent those of the church of england ( some of whom had appeared with vigor and resolution against popery , when they were trucking underhand for toleration with them ) as papists in masquerade . but now they tack about , and strike in with the violent rage of the people , and none so fierce against popery as they . vvhat influence it hath had upon others i know not , but i confess it did not lessen my esteem of the integrity of those of the church of england , that they were not so much transported by sudden heats , beyond the just bounds of prudence , and decency , and humanity , towards their greatest enemies , having learnt from st. paul , that , the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of god. they expected as little favor from them as any , if they had prevailed , and i doubt not but some of them had been made the first examples of their cruelty . however , this was interpreted to be want of zeal , by those who think there is no fire in the house , unless it flame out at the vvindows ; and this advantage was taken by the inveterate enemies of our church , to represent us all as secret friends to the papists ( so improbable a lie , that the devil himself would blush at the telling of it , not for the malice , but the folly and ill contrivance of it ) and those who were more moderate , were content to allow or among the bishops to be protestants , and about or among the clergy of london to feed this humor ( which wonderfully spread among more of the people than we could have believed to have been so weak ) most of the malicious libels against the church of england were reprinted and dispersed , and new ones added to them . among the rest , one translated out of french , to prove the advances of the church of england towards popery ; but so unhappily managed , that those persons are chiefly mention'd , who had appeared with most zeal against popery . yet , so much , had the arts of some men prevailed over the iudgments of others , that even this discourse was greedily swallowed by them . but i must do the author of it that right , to declare , that before his death , he was very sensible of the injury he had done to some worthy divines of our church therein ; and begged god and them pardon for it . wherein , as he followed the example of some others , who were great enemies to our church while they lived , but repented of it , when they came to die ; so , i hope , others , upon better consideration , will see reason to follow his . but this was but an inconsiderable trifle in comparison of what follow . we were still in hopes , that men so wise , so self-denying as the non-conformist ministers represent themselves to the world , would , in so critical a time , have made some steps or advances towards an union with us ; at lest to have let us known their sense of the present state of things , and their readiness to joyn with us , as far as they could , against the assaults of a common enemy . in stead of this , those we discoursed with , seemed farther off than before ; and when we lest expected such a blow , under the name of a plea for peace , out comes a book , which far better deserved the title of a plea for disorder and separation , not without frequent , sharp , and bitter reflections on the constitution of our church , and the conformity required by law ; as though it had been designed on purpose , to represent the clergy of our church as a company of notorious , lying and perjured villains , for conforming to the laws of the land , and orders established among us ; for there are no fewer than tremendous aggravations of the sin of conformity set down in it . and all this done , without the lest provocation given on our side ; when all our discourses that touched them , tended only to union , and the desirableness of accommodation . if this had been the single work of one man , his passion and infirmities might have been some tolerable excuse for the indiscretion of it ; but he writes in the name of a whole party of men , and delivers the sense of all his acquaintance ; and if those principles be owned , and allowed by them , there can hardly be expected any such thing as a national settlement , but all churches must be heaps of sand , which may lie together till a puff of wind disperses them ; having no firmer bond of vnion , than the present humor and good will of the people . but of the principles of that book , i have discoursed at large , as far as concerns the business of separation in the second and third parts of the following treatise . but , as though this had not been enough , to shew what enemies to peace men may be under a pretence of it ; not long after , the same author sets forth another book , with this title , the true and only way of concord of all the christian churches . as though he had been christ's plenipotentiary upon earth , and were to set the terms of peace and war among all christians ; but i wish he had shewed himself such a pattern of meekness , humility , patience , and a peaceable disposition , that we might not have so much reason to dispute his credentials . but this is likewise fraught with such impracticable notions , and dividing principles ; as though his whole design had been , to prove , that there is no true way of concord among christians : for if there be no other , than what he allows ; all the christian churches this day in the world , are in a mighty mistake . when i looked into these books , and saw the design of them , i was mightily concerned , and infinitely surprised , that a person of his reputation for piety , of his age , and experience in the world , and such a lover of peace , as he had always professed himself ; and one who tells the world so often of his dying , and of the day of judgment , should think of leaving two such firebrands behind him , as both these books will appear to any one who duely considers them , which have been since followed by or more to the same purpose , so that he seems resolved to leave his life and sting together in the wounds of this church . and it made me extremely pity the case of this poor church , when even those who pretend to plead for peace , and to bring water to quench her flames , do but add more fuel to them this gave the first occasion to those thoughts , which i afterwards delivered in my sermon ; for since by the means of such books , the zeal of so many people was turned off from the papists against those of our church , i saw a plain necessity , that either we must be run down by the impetuous violence of an enraged , but vnprovoked company of men , or we must venture our selves to try , whether we could stem that tide , which we saw coming upon us . and it falling to my lot to preach in the most publick auditory of the city , at a more than usual appearance , being the first sunday in the term , i considered the relation i stood in under our honored diocesan , to the clergy of the city , and therefore thought my self more obliged to take notice of what concerned the peace and welfare of the churches therein . upon these considerations , i thought fit to take that opportunity , to lay open the due sense i had of the unreasonableness and mischief of the present separation . wherein i was so far from intending to reflect on mr. b. as preaching in the neighborhood of my parish , that to my best remembrance , i never once thought of it , either in the making or preaching of that sermon . and yet throughout his answer he would insinuate , that i had scarce any one in my eye but himself . his books indeed had made too great an impression on my mind for me easily to forget them : but it was the great , the dangerous , the vnaccountable separation , which i knew to be in and about the city , without regard to the greatness or smallness of parishes , to the abilities or piety of their ministers , or to the peace and order of the church we live in ; which made me fix upon that subject ; although i knew it to be so sore a place , that the parties most concerned , could hardly endure to have it touched , though with a soft and gentle hand . however , i considered the duty which i owe to god , and this church , above the esteem and good words of peevish and partial men ; as i had before done in my dealing with the papists ; and i resolved to give them no iust provocation by reproachful language , or personal reflections ; but if truth and reason would anger them , i did not hold my self obliged to study to please them . but , against this whole vndertaking , there have been two common objections . first , that it was unseasonable . secondly , that it was too sharp and severe . to both these i shall answer ; first , as to the unseasonableness of it . what! was it unseasonable to perswade protestants to peace and unity ? that surely is very seasonable at any time , and much more then . and i appeal to any one that reads it , whether this were not the chief , and only design of my sermon . and , to say , this was unseasonable , is just , as if a garrison were besieg'd by an enemy , and in great danger of being surprised , and although they had frequent notice of it given them , yet many of the soldiers were resolved not to joyn in a common body , under command of their officers , but would run into corners , a few in a company , and do what they list , and one should undertake to perswade them to return to their due obedience , and to mind the common interest , and some grave by-standers should say , it is true , this is good counsel at another time , but at this present it is very unseasonable . when could it be more seasonable , than when the sence of their danger is greatest upon them ? at another time it might have been less necessary ; but when the common danger is apparent to all , men of sense , or common ingenuity , could not but take such advice most kindly at such a season . but this advice was not given to themselves , but to the magistrates and judges , and that made it look like a design to stir them up to a persecution of them . there had been some color for this , if there had been the left word tending that way through the whole sermon . but this objection is generally made by those who never read the sermon , and never intend to read it ; and such i have found have spoken with the greatest bitterness against it . they resolved to condemn it , and therefore would see nothing that might have alter'd their sentence . it is enough , it was preached before the magistrates and judges , and therefore it must be for persecution of dissenters . no●e are so incapable of conviction , as those who presently determine what a thing must be , without considering what it is . is it not possible for a man to speak of peace before hannibal , or of obedience to government before julius caesar ? must one speak of nothing but drums and trumpets before , great generals ? which is just as reasonable as to suppose , that a man cannot preach about dissenters before judges and magistrates , but he must design to stir them up to the severe execution of laws ? but it is to no purpose for me to think to convince those by any vindication , who will not be at the pains to read the sermon it self , for their own satisfaction . but the dissenters themselves were not there to hear it . and must we never preach against the papists but when they are present ? it seems they soon heard enough of it , by the noise and clamor they made about it . yet still this gives advantage to the papists , for us to quarrel among our selves . would to god this advantage had never been given them ! and woe be to them by whom these offences come . and what must we do ? must we stand still with open arms , and naked breasts to receive all the wounds they are willing to give us ? must we suffer our selves to be run down with a popular fury , raised by reviling books , and pamphlets , and not open our mouths for our own vindication , lest the papists should overhear us ? which is , as if the unruly soldiers in an army must be let alone in a mutiny , for fear the enemy should take notice , and make some advantage of it . but which will be the greater advantage to him , to see it spread and increase , or care taken in time to suppress it ? if our dissenters had not appeared more active , and busie than formerly ; if they had not both by publick writings , and secret insinuations , gone about to blast the reputation of this church , and the members of it , so disingenuously , as they have done ; there might have been some pretence for the unseasonableness of my sermon . but when those things were notorious , to say it was unseasonable to preach such a sermon then , or now to defend it ; is , in effect to tell us , they may say and do what they will against us , at all seasons ; but whatever we say or do for our own vindication is unseasonable ; which , under favor , seems to be little less than a state of persecution on our side ; for it is , like setting us in the pillory , for them to throw dirt at us , without allowing us any means to defend our selves . but some complain of the too great sharpness and severity of it . but , wherein doth it lie ? not , in raking into old sores , or looking back to the proceedings of former times ? not , in exposing the particular faults of some men , and laying them to the charge of the whole party ? not , in sharp and provoking reflections on mens persons ? all these i purposely , and with care declined . my design being not to exasperate any ; but to perswade and argue them into a better disposition to union , by laying open the common danger we are in , and the great mischief of the present separation but i am told by one , there are severe reflections upon the sincerity and honesty of the designs of the non-conformists ; by another , that indeed i do not bespeak for them , gibbets , whipping-posts , and dungeons ; nor ( directly ) any thing grievous to their flesh ; but i do not pass any gentle doom upon them , in respect of their everlasting state. god forbid , that i should iudge any one among them , as to their present sincerity , or final condition ; to their own master they must stand or fall ; but , my business was to consider , the nature and tendency of their actions . my iudgment being , that a causless breaking the peace of the church we live in , is really as great and as dangerous a sin , as murder ; and in some respects aggravated beyond it ; and herein , having the concurrence of the divines of greatest reputation both ancient and modern : would they have had me represented that as no sin , which i think to be so great a one ; or those as not guilty , whom in my conscience i thought to be guilty of it ? would they have had me suffered this sin to have lain upon them without reproving it ; or , would they have had me found out all the soft and palliating considerations to have lessen'd their sense of it ? no , i had seen too much of this already : and a mighty prejudice done thereby to men , otherwise scrupulous and conscientious , that seem to have lost all sense of this sin ; as if there neither were , nor could be any such thing ; unless perhaps they should happen to quarrel among themselves in a particular congregation . which is so mean , so jejune , so narrow a notion of schism , so much short of that care of the churches peace which ch●ist hath made so great a duty of his followers ; that i cannot but wonder that men of understanding should be satisfy'd with it , unless they thought there was no other way to excuse their own actings . and that i confess , is a shrew'd temptation . but , so far as i can judge , as far as the obligation to preserve the churches peace extends , so far doth the sin of schism ●each ; and the obligation to preserve the peace of the church extends to all lawful constitutions in order to it ; or else it would fall short of the obligation to civil peace , which is as far as is possible , and as much as lies in us . therefore to break the peace of the church we live in , for the sake of any lawful orders and constitutions made to preserve it , is directly the sin of schism , or an unlawful breach of the peace of the church . and this is not to be determined by mens fancies , and present apprehensions ; which they call the dictates of conscience ; but upon plain and evident grounds , manifesting the repugnancy of the things required to the laws and institutions of christ , and that they are of that importance that he allows men rather to divide from such a communion , than joyn in the practice of such things . we were in a lamentable case , as to the defence of the reformation , if we had nothing more to plead against the impositions of the church of rome , than they have against ours : and i think it impossible to defend the lawfulness of our separation from them , if we had no better grounds to proceed upon , than they have against our church . for the proof of this , i refer the reader to the book it self . this then being my opinion concerning their practices , was this a fault in me , to shew some reason for it ? and how could i do that without proving those practices to be sinful ? and if they were sinful , how could they who knowingly and deliberately continue in the practice of them be innocent ? what influence the prejudices of education , the authority of teachers , the almost invincible ignorance of some weaker people , and the vncurable biass of some mens minds may have to lessen their guilt , i meddle not with ; but the nature of the actions , and the tendency of them ▪ which i then declared to be sinful ; and i am so far from being alter'd in my iudgment by any of the answers i have seen ( and i have read all that have been published ) that i am much more confirmed in it . but dr. o. saith , he had seen a collection made of severe reflections by the hand of a person of honor , with his judgment upon them . i wish the doctor had favour'd me with a sight of them ; but at present it is somewhat hard for me to make the objections and answers too . and it was not so fairly done to mention them , unless he had produced them . therefore , to the ●nknown objections , i hope no answer is expected . but there is one expression wherein i am charged with a scurrilous sarcasm , or a very unchristian judging mens hearts , or a ridiculous piece of nonsense , viz. when i say , that the most godly people among them can the lest endure to be to told of their faults : now , saith mr. a. how can they be most godly , who cannot bear reproof of their faults , which is a main part of godliness . i am really sorry , some of my answerers have so much made good the truth of that saying in its plainest sense . but there needs no more to clear my intention in it , but to consider , of whom it is spoken ; viz. of those , who will not bear being told of the sin of separation by their own teachers . for my words are , is it that they fear the reproaches of the people ? which some few of the most eminent persons among them , have found they must undergo , if they touch upon this subject ( for i know not how it comes to pass , that the most godly people among them can the lest endure to be told of their faults . ) in all which words i had a particular respect to the case of mr. baxter who , after he had , with great honesty , published his cure of divisions , and therein sharply rebuked the separating , dividing humor of the people , who pretended most to religious strictness , he met with bitter reproaches from them for the sake of this freedom , that he was foced to publish a defence of his cure in vindication of himself from them ; wherein he saith , he was judged by them to be too censorious of them , and too sharp in telling them of that which he did not doubt to be their sin : and again , if i be mistaken , should you be so impatient , as not to bear with one , that in such an opinion differeth from you ? and why should not you bear with my dissent , as well as i do with yours ? again , why should not you bear with lesser contradiction , when others must bear with far greater from you ? will you proclaim you selves to be the more impatient ? you will then make men think , you are the most guilty . — and a little after , and yet you that should be most patient , take it for a heinous crime and injury , to be told , that you wrong them , and that you judge too hardly of them ; and that their communion is not unlawful . and when we joyn to this , what he saith elsewhere , that they are the most self-conceited professors who will not be ruled by their ministers , but are most given to division and separation : in a passage before mention'd ; there needs no more to vindicate the truth of this saying , than to shew , that the most self-conceited do often pass for the most godly among them ; which is a figure so common , so easie to be understood , that it needs no more apology , than our saviours calling the pharisees righteous men , and saying , they were so whole , as to need no physician . and i cannot think such figures which were used by our saviour , unfit for a pulpit . but notwithstanding all the care i took to prevent giving any just occasion of offence , my sermon had not been long abroad , but i heard of great clamors against it . at first it went down quietly enough , and many of the people began to read and consider it , being pleased to find so weighty and so necessary a point debated , with so much calmness , and freedom from passion . which being discerned by the leaders , and managers of the parties , it was soon resolved , that the sermon must be cried down , and the people disswaded , by all means , from reading it . if any of them were talked with about it , they shrunk up their shoulders , and looked sternly , and shook their heads , and hardly forbore some bitter words both of the author and the sermon . vpon this followed a great cry and noise , both in city and country , against it ; and some honest persons really pittied me , thinking i had done some very ill thing ; so many people were of a sudden so set against me , and spoke so bitterly of my sermon . i asked , what the matter was ? what false doctrine i had preached ? did they suspect i was turn'd papist , at such a time , when all the nation was set against popery ? who had written so much against it , when others , who are now so fierce , were afraid to appear ? it was something , they said , had angred them sorely , but they could not tell what : which made me read my sermon over again , to see what offensive passages there might be in it ; after all , i could see no just cause for any offence , unless it were , that i perswaded the dissenters to submit to the church of england , and not the church of england to submit to them . and this , i believe , lay at the bottom of many mens stomacks . they would have had me humor'd the growing faction , which , under a pretence of zeal against popery , designed to overthrow the church of england ; or , at lest have preached for alterations and abatements , and taking away ceremonies and subscriptions , and leaving them full liberty to do what they pleased ; and then i might have gained their good opinion , and been thought to have preached a very seasonable sermon . but supposing my own private opinion were never so much for some abatements to be made , that might tend to strengthen and unite protestants , and were consistent with our national settlement ; had it been seasonable to have spoken of the alteration of laws before magistrates and judges , who are tied up to the laws in being ? is it fit for private persons , when laws are in force , to take upon them to iudge what laws are fit to continue , and what not ? i think the alteration of established laws , which concern the preservation of our church and religion , one of the weightiest things that can be taken into consideration . and although the arguments are very plausible one way , yet the objections are very strong another . the union of protestants , the ease of scrupulous consciences , the providing for so many poor families of ejected ministers , are great motives on our side ; but , . the impossibility of satisfying all dissenters . . the vncertainty of gaining any considerable number by relaxations . . the difficulty of keeping factions out of the church , considering the vngovernableness of some mens tempers and principles . . the danger of breaking all in pieces by toleration ; . the exposing our selves to the papists , and others , by receding too far from the first principles and frame of our reformation . and . the difficulty of keeping out priests , pretending to be allowed dissenters , are very weighty considerations on the other side . so that , whatever men talk of the easiness of taking away the present impositions , it is a sign they look no farther than their own case ; and do not consider the strength and union of a national settlement , and the necessity thereof to keep out popery ; and , how much easier it is to break things in pieces , than to set them in order again ; for , new objections will still be raised against any settlement , and so the result may be nothing but disorder and confusion . of what moment these things may be thought to other persons , i know not ; but they were great enough to me , to make me think it very unseasonable to meddle with establish'd law 's ; but on the other hand , i could not but think it seasonable to endeavor to remove such scruples and prejudices , as hindered the people most from communion with our churches ; for , as i said in the epistle before the sermon , if the people be brought to vnderstand and practice their duty , as to communion with our churches , other difficulties , which obstruct our union , will more easily be removed . this passage , mr a. tells me , was the sport and entertainment of the coffe●-houses . i confess , i am a great stranger to the wisdom of those places ; but i see mr. a. is able to give me an account of the sage discourses upon points of divinity there . but if those pleasant gentlemen would have understood the difference between lay-communion , and ministerial conformity , they might have apprehended the meaning of that passage . for , i am of opinion , if the people once thought themselves bound to do , what they may lawfully do , towards communion with us ; many of the ministers who seem now most most forward to defend the separation , would think of putting a fairer construction upon many things than now they do . and therefore i thought it fittest to handle the case of the people , who are either over-violent in these matters , without ever considering them , or have met with ill-instructors , who have not faithfully let them know what the terms of communion , as to themselves , were . for the scruple of the surplice seems to be worn out ; kneeling at the sacrament is generally allowed by the more iudicious non-conformists ; and the only scruple , as to them , about the sign of the cross , is not , whether it be lawful for the minister to use it , but whether it be lawful for them to offer their children to be baptized where it is used ; and , as mr. baxter resolves the case ; baptism is gods ordinance , and his priviledge , and the sin ( if it be one ) is the ministers , and not his . another man 's sinful mode will not justifie the neglect of our duty ; else we might not joyn in any prayer or sacrament in which the minister modally sinneth : that is with none . as to the use of the liturgy , mr. baxter saith , he that separateth from all churches among us , on the account of the unlawfulness of our liturgy , doth separate from them on a reason common to all , or almost all christian churches upon earth ; the thoughts of which he is not able to bear . and although the new impositions , he saith , makes their ministerial conformity harder than formerly ; yet the peoples conformity is the same ( if not easier , by some amendments of the liturgy ) as when separation was fully confuted by the old non-conformists . and the most learned and worthy of them , he saith , wrote more against separation , than the conformists : and the present non-conformists have not more wisdom , learning , or holiness than they . but , he saith , they did not only urge the people against separation , but to come to the very beginning of the publick worship , preferring it before their private duties . what ground was there now , to make such a hideous . out-cry about a sermon , which perswaded men to no more , than the old pious , and peaceable nonconformists would have done ; who talked more sharply against the sin , and mischief of separation , than i have done ; as may be seen in the first part of the following treatise ? but as if they had been the papists instruments , to execute the fury of their wrath and displeasure against me , they summon in the power of their party , and resolve , with their full might , to fall upon me . and , as if it had not been enough to deal with me by open force , which is more manly , and generous ; they made use of mean and base arts , by scurrilous rimes , by virulent and malicious libels sent to me without names ; by idle stories , and false suggestions , to rob me at once , of my reputation , and the tranquillity of my mind . but i thank god , i despised such pittiful artifices , and such vnmanly and barbarous usage ; which made no other impression on my mind , but to make me understand , that other men could use me , as bad , or worse , than the papists . but this brought to my mind a passage of arch-bishop whitgift , concerning their predecessors usage of bishop jewel ; after he had so stoutly defended this church against the papists . but , saith he , it is their manner , except you please their humor in all things , though you otherwise deserve never so well , all is nothing with them , but they will deprave you , rail on you , backbite you , invent lies of you , and spread false rumors , as though you were the vilest persons upon earth i could hardly have believed so ill a character of men pretending to any kind of religion , had i not found so just a parallel ; abating only the due allowances that must be made as to my case , with respect to the far greater deserts of that incomparable bishop . but notwithstanding all their hard censures of me , i do assure them , i am as firm a protestant as ever i was , and should be still as ready to promote the interest of the protestant religion , yea , and to do any real kindness to the dissenters themselves , that may be consistent with the national settlement of our church , and the honor of our reformation . after a while , they thought fit to draw their strength into open field , and the first who appeared against me , was dr. owen , who treated me with that civility , and decent language , that i cannot but return him thanks for it ; however , i was far from being satisfied with his reasoning , as will appear in the book it self . the next was mr. baxter , who appeared with so much anger , and unbecoming passion ; that i truly pittied him ; and was so far from being transported by it , that it was enough to cure an inclination to an indecent passion , to see , how ill it became a man of his age , profession , and reputation . at first he sent me some captious questions for a trial of skill ; i returned him answer , they were not to the business ; but if he intended to answer my sermon ( as i perceived by his letter he was put upon it , and i knew how hardly he could abstain from writing however ) i desired him not to make too hasty a reply . but he , who seldom takes the advice of his friends , was , i suppose , the more provoked by this good counsel ; and seems to have written his whole book in one continued fit of anger ; and by some rules of civility peculiar to himself , he published my private letter , without so much as letting me know that he intended it . whatever injurious and spiteful reflections he hath made upon me through his book , i can more easily forgive him , than he can forgive himself , when he looks them over again with a better mind . and therefore i pass over the scurrility of his preface , wherein , after he hath in particulars described , the most unskilful , proud , partial , obstinate , cruel , impertinent adversaries he could think of places of scripture , or similitudes for , he then concludes ; but although all this be not the case of the reverend doctor . what a malicious way of reproaching is this ? to name so many very ill things , and to leave it to the reader to apply as much as he pleases ; and when he is charged with any one to say , he meant not that , for he added , although all this be not the case of r. dr. if this be the justice , the charity , and ingenuity of mr. b. and his brethren , who put him upon writing , they must give me leave to think , there are some non-conformist ministers , that are not the wisest , the meekest , nor the most self-denying men upon earth . he seems much concerned about my being likely to have the last word : which i am very willing to let him have , hoping he may come to himself before he dies ; and may live to repent of the injuries he hath done to his brethren and the mischiefs he hath done to the church of god , by so industriously exposing the governors of it , and laying the foundation for endless separation , as will appear in the following discourse . the third who entred the lists , was one , who seemed to write more like a well-disposed gentleman , than like a divine ; he wishes very well to the cause he undertakes ; he di●courses gravely and piously , without bitterness and rancor , or any sharp reflections , and sometimes with a great mixture of kindness towards one ; for which , and his prayers for me , i do heartily thank him . what i find material to the business in his book , i have consider'd in its due place . the fourth comes forth with a more than ordinary briskness ; and seems to set up rather for a sort of wit , than a grave divine . his book resembled the bird of athens , for it seems to be made up of face and feathers : for , setting aside his bold sayings , his impertinent triflings , his hunting up and down for any occasion of venting his little stories and similitudes , there is very little of substance left in him ; but what he hath borrowed from dr. o. or mr. b. methinks , such a light , vain , scurrilous way of writing , doth not become such a tenderness of conscience as our dissenting brethren pretend to . there is a sort of pleasantness of wit which serves to entertain the reader in the rough and deep way of controversies ; but certainly there is a difference between the raillery and good humor of gentlemen , and the iests of porters and watermen . but this author seems to be ambitious of the honor of a second martin , whose way he imitates , and whose wit he equals . yet this is not his greatest fault , for he deals with me as a man that was by any means to be run down , without regard to common ingenuity . for , suppose i had mistaken the sense of my text , which i am certain i did not ; yet i am not the only person in the world that talks impertinently . suppose there had been a fault in my reasoning , methinks the sense of humane frailty should make men not grow insolent upon such a discovery : and yet i do not know one thing which he hath made it in ; as will appear hereafter . but , will nothing serve but to represent me to the world as a kind of atheistical hypocrite , i. e. as a secret underminer of the proof of a deity , under the pretence of proving it ? yet , this he doth more than once : which was so remote from his business , that nothing but a wretched , malicious design of exposing me , could make him draw it in : he gives a gentle touch at it in his preface , to prepare the readers appetite ; but p. . he charges me with proceeding upon such principles , as plainly render it impossible by any certain argument to prove the existence of a deity . mr. b. had unhappily said , and without the least ground , that my principles overthrow all religion ; and mr. a. vouches it , and undertakes to prove it for him . mr. b. begins his plea for peace with a saying of st. augustin , ( he meant st. hierom ) that no man ought to be patient under the accusation of heresy : what should a man then be under the accusation of being guilty of overthrowing all religion , and rendring it impossible , by any certain argument , to prove that there is a god ? according to all rules of iustice , a charge of so high a nature ought not to be brought against any man , without such evidence , as appears clear and convincing to him that brings it . but i very much mistrust in this case , that mr. a. in his conscience knew , his proofs to be weak and insufficient ; what then can we think of him that charges another with so high a crime , when he knows that he cannot prove it ? his first proof , he takes from my popish adversaries , about the inconsistency of proving a deity , by such infallible arguments , as must suppose the existence of what we prove ; as all infallibility from divine assistance must do . but did i ever say , there was no certainty without infallible assistance ? and yet this whole matter about certainty , as to the proof of a god , and the christian religion , i had so lately cleared in my last answer to the papists , which he refers to in this very place , that he could not but be convinced of the impertinency of it . his main argument he pretends to bring from a principle of my own ; for his words are , he lays down this for a principle , that the foundation of all certainty lies in the necessary existence of a being absolutely perfect ; how then , saith he , shall we come to prove his existence by such demonstration , cui non potest subesse falsum ? and then he adds , that i have excluded all demonstration from the works of god , because we must first know , that there is an invisible god , before we can certainly know , that there is a visible world. but if i make it evident , that i lay down no such principles of my own ; and that i do particularly insist upon the certainty of proving a god from his works , what doth this man deserve for his calumnies ? first , that which he saith i lay down for a principle , i only propose as an i●serence from the hypothesis of other men. for my words are , and if that principle be supposed , as the foundation of all physical certainty , as to the being of things , that there is a god : — i say , if that principle be supposed . from hence appears a double falsification . . that i make it the principle of all certainty , whereas i expresly set down in their hypothesis physical certainty as to the being of things ; but , is there no certainty but what is physical ? what thinks he of mathematical , or metaphysical certainty ? so that there might be a mathematical or metaphysical certainty of the being of god , though this principle were allowed . how then doth this prove , that i render it impossible , by any certain argument , to prove the existence of a deity ? . that i make it a principle of my own , whereas i only suppose it as following from a principle of others . to clear this , it will be necessary 〈◊〉 lay down the scope of that discourse , which was to prove , that there is a certainty of faith , as well as of sense ; and to that end i shewed from the nature of the certainty of sense , that it doth fall short of mathematical demonstrations ; which having done from other arguments , i then consider their hypothesis , who derive all physical certainty from the knowledge of god , who will not suffer mens minds to be deceived in clear perceptions ; then from this principle being supposed , i infer several things for the advantage of the certainty of faith. . that the foundation of all certainty , i. e. such as was before spoken of , lies in the necessary existence of a being absolutely perfect . which i deduce as ● just inference from the former hypothesis ; and therefore on this supposition , something above our comprehension , viz. absolute perfection , must be made the foundation of our certain knowledge of things , and so the difficulty of our conception of matters of faith , ought to be no hindrance to the certainty of faith. . that we have as great , or greater reason to believe , that god will not suffer us to be deceived in matters of faith , as in the objects of our senses because as i there argue , there is no sue● great danger of being deceived , or in being deceived in the objects of sense , as in the matters of faith. let any man now iudge , whether this be the discourse of one that rendred it impossible , by any certain argument , to prove the existence of a deity ? or that i laid down that as a principle of my own , from which being supposed , i deduce such inferences as prove the certainty of faith hath no greater difficulties , than the certainty of sense . secondly , i am so far from excluding the certainty of the argument from the works of god to prove his being , that i particularly and largely insist upon it from p. . to p. . but he pretends that i bring no argument but from the idea of god in our minds , wich is so false , that ( . ) i make use of that argument only to slex , that the notion of a god hath no inconsistency in it , nothing repugnant to the faculties of our minds : as appeas by that very place he quotes : ( . ) the main arguments i insist upon , are , that the things in the world are the manifest effects of divine wisdom , goodness and power : and that there be such things in the world which are unacceptable without a deity . let any man now iudge , with what conscience or ingenuity , this man hath managed such an accusation against me ▪ as that i go upon such principles , as plainly render it impossible , by any certain argument , to prove the existence of a deity . but it may be he will pretend , that he did not design to prove me atheistical , but only to shew , that i acted very unreasonably , in requiring a greater certainty in them , as to the principles of separation , than i do allow in far greater things . as to his design i leave the reader to iudge by his way of preceeding in it . as to the colour he hath to bring it in , on the account of the grounds of separation , it is only this ; the sub-committee of the assembly arguing against the dissenting brethren , saith he , i say , that such tenderness of conscience , as ariseth out of an opinion ( cui potest subesse falsum ) which may be false , is not a sufficient ground , &c. to justifie separation . but here is a dangerous &c. in the middle of a sentence , which made me look again into the papers , and there i find such words left out , as fully explain and determine the sense ; for the whole sentence runs thus . we much doubt , whether such tenderness of conscience , as ariseth out of an opinion , cui potest subesse falsum , when the conscience is so tender , as that it may be withal an erring conscience , can be a sufficient ground to justifie such a material separation as our brethren plead for . where we see , the force is not laid upon the bare possibility of deception ( for then no separation could be allowed in any case , since all men are fallible ) but upon the supposition of an actual deception , which an erroneous conscience supposes . for it is such a deception as doth suppose tenderness of conscience , which doth not arise from a possibility of being deceived , but from an error of conscience . the plea is , tenderness of conscience ; the question is , whether this plea be sufficient to justifie separation ? we much doubt it , say they , why so ? the other reply ; our reason is , because this tenderness may arise from an erroneous conscience . but why should you suspect an erroneous conscience in the case ? because persons are liable to be deceived in the dictates of conscience : especially when they go meerly upon their own apprehensions , without producing arguments ex naturâ rei . for all the debate between them about tenderness of conscience proceeded upon this . so that their meaning is not here to be taken as to the bare possibility of deception , but of such an opinion , as carried a great probability along with it , that they were actually deceived . and what coherence is there now between this , and the proof that i bring for the existence of a deity ? so that , it is apparent , that this was an occasion sought after , to lay as much load upon me as he could . and by this tast let the reader iudge , what ingenuity i am to expect from this man. the last who appeared against my sermon is called , the author of the christian temper , i was glad to find an adversary pretending to that ; having found so little of it in the answers of mr. b. and mr. a. his business is , to commit the rector of sutton with the dean of st. paul's : which was enough to make the common people imagine , this was some busie justice of peace who had taken them both at a conventicle . the whole design of that book doth not seem very agreeable to the christian temper which the author pretends to . for it is to pick up all the passages he could meet with ( in a book written twenty years since ) with great tenderness towards the dissenters , before the law 's were establish'd . as though , as mr cotton once answered in a like case , there were no weighty argument to be found , but what might be gather'd from the weakness or unwariness of my expressions . and , have you not very well requited the author of that book for the tenderness and pitty he had for you , and the concernment he then expressed , to have brought you i● , upon easier terms than were since required ? and , hath he now deserved this at your hands , to have them all thrown in his face , and to be thus upbraided with his former kindness ? is this your ingenuity , your gratitude , your christian temper ? are you afraid of having too many friends , that you thus use those , whom you once took to be such ? methinks herein you appear very self-denying , but i cannot take you to be any of the wisest men upon earth . when you think it reasonable , that upon longer time , and farther consideration , those divines of the assembly , who then opposed separation , should change their opinions ; will you not allow one single person , who happen'd to write about these matters when he was very young ; in twenty years time of the most busie and thoughtful part of his life , to see reason to alter his iudgment ? but after all this , wherein is it that he hath thus contradicted himself ? is it in the point of separation , which is the present business ? no , so far from it , that in that very book , he speaks as fully concerning the unlawfulness of separation , as in this sermon . which will appear by these particulars in it . ( . ) that it is unlawful to set up new churches , because they cannot conform to such practises which they suspect to be unlawful . ( . ) those are new churches when men erect distinct societies for worship under distinct and peculiar officers , governing by laws , and church rules , different from that form they separate from . ( . ) as to things in the judgment of the primitive and reformed churches left undeter●in'd by the law of god , and in matters of meer order and decency , and wholly as to the form of government , every one , notwithstanding what his private judgment may be of them , is bound for the peace of the church of god , to submit to the determination of the lawful governors of the church . allow but these three conclusions , and defend the present separation if you can . why then do you make such a stir about other passages in that book , and take so little notice of these , which are most pertinent and material ? was it not possible for you to espy them , when you ransacked every corner of that book , to find out some thing which might seem to make to your purpose ? and yet the very first passage you quote is within two leaves of these ; and two passages more you soon after quote , are within a page of them ; and another in the very same page ; and so many up and down so very near them , that it is impossible you should not see and consider them ? yes he hath at last found something very near them ; for he quotes the very pages where they are . and , he saith , he will do me no wrong , for i do distinguish , he confesses , between non-communion in unlawful or suspected rites or practises in a church , and entering into distinct societies for worship this is doing me some right however , although he doth not fully set down my meaning . but he urges another passage in the same place , viz. that if others cast them wholly out of communion , their separation is necessary — that is no more , than hath been always said by our divines in respect to the church of rome . but , will not this equally hold against our church , if it excommunicates those who cannot conform ? i answer , ( . ) our church doth not cast any wholly out of communion for meer scrupulous non-conformity in some particular rites . for , it allows them to communicate in other parts of worship ; as appeared by all the non-conformists of former times , who constantly joyned in prayers and other acts of worship , although they scrupled some particular ceremonies . ( . ) the case is vastly different , as to the necessity of our separation , upon being wholly cast out of communion by the church of rome ; and the necessity of others separating from us , supposing a general excommunication ipso facto against those who publickly defame the orders of this church for that is all which can be inferred from the canons . for , in the former case , it is not a lesser excommunication denounced , as it is only in our case against publick and scandalous offenders ( which is no more than is allowed in all churches ; and is generally supposed to lay no obligation , till it be duly executed , though it be latae sententiae & ipso facto ) but in the church of rome we are cast out with an anathema , so as to pronounce us uncapable of salvation , if we do not return to , and continue in their communion ; and this was it which that author meant , by being wholly cast out of communion , i. e. with the greatest and highest church censure . ( . ) that author could not possibly mean , that there was an equal reason in these cases , when he expresly determines , that in the case of our church , men are bound in conscience to submit to the orders of it ; being only about matters of decency and order , and such things which in the judgment of the primitive and reformed churches are left undetermined by the law of god. although therefore he might allow a scrupulous forbearance of some acts of communion , as to some suspected rites , yet upon the principles there asserted , he could never allow mens proceedings to a positive separation from the communion of our church . and so much shall serve to clear the agreement between the rector of sutton and the dean of st. pauls . but if any thing in the following treatise , be found different from the sense of that book , i do intreat them to allow me that which i heartily wish to them , viz. that in twenty years time we may arrive to such maturity of thoughts , as to see reason to change our opinion of some things ; and i wish i had not cause to add , of some persons too . there is one thing more which this author takes notice of , and the rest do not ( for else he offers little or nothing but what is in the others ) which is , that when i say our differences are condemned by the wiser protestants abroad , he saith , if it be so , they may thank their friends at home , that have misrepresented them to the world. therefore , to give satisfaction , as to the judgment of some of the most eminent and learned protestant divines abroad now-living , i have subjoyned to the following treatise , some late letters of theirs , to a person of great honor and dignity in our church , to shew the unlawfulness of separation from the communion of the church of england . which were not written by such , who had only a partial representation from others at a distance , but two of them by those who have been among us , and have been curious observers both of the separate meetings and of the customs of our churches ; and the third by the famous and excellent monsieur claude . and i● a council could be called of all the protestant churches in christendom , we should not doubt of their determination of the unlawfulness of the present separation . but before i conclude this preface , there is a great objection yet to be removed , which concerns the time of publishing this treatise ; which some do seem to think , to be very unseasonable ; when there is so much talk of union among protestants , and there appears a more general inclination to it than formerly . and what , say they , can the laying open the weakness of dissenters tend to , but to provoke and exasperate them , and consequently to obstruct the union so much desired ? in so doing , i shall appear to resent more the injuries done to my self , than the mischief which may come to the protestant religion , if this opportunity be not embraced for making an union among protestants . this is the force of the objection . to which i answer . god forbid that i should either design , or do any thing which tended to obstruct so blessed a work , as a firm and lasting vnion among protestants would be . but my business is , to shew the vnreasonableness of those principles and practises , which hinder men from such an vnion , and lay a foundation for perpetual and endless separations . for upon the principles laid down by some of our dissenting brethren , let the constitution be made never so easie to themselves , yet others may make use of their grounds , and carry on the differences as high as ever . which will render all attempts of vnion vain ; and leave the same weapons ready to be taken up by others . if the vnion so much talked of , be such as tends to the lessening , and not to the increasing of our differences ; if it be for strengthning and supporting the protestant religion , and not rather for weaking and betraying it , by laying it more open to the assaults of our enemies ; no man shall be more ready to promote it than i ; no man will rejoyce more in the accomplishment of it : but universal liberty is quite another thing from union ; as much as looseing is from binding up ; and it is strange if that which the papists , not long since , thought the best means to bring in popery , should now be looked on as the most effectual way to keep it out . but suppose the indulgence be at present strictly limited to dissenting protestants ; are we sure it shall always so continue ? will not the same reasons , as to scruple of conscience , suffering for religion , &c. extend farther when occasion serves , and the popish religion get footing on the dissenters grounds ? where hath the church of rome more labourers , and a greater harvest , than under the greatest liberty of conscience ? let the state of the northern kingdoms , as to this matter , be compared with the number of papists in the united provinces . and it will be found impossible to root out popery , where toleration is allowed . ( ) because of the various ways of creeping in under several disguises , which the priests and jesuits have ; and can never be prevented , where there is a general indulgence for dissenters , and an unaccountable church power is allowed to separate congregations . ( ) because it will be thought great hardship , when mens heats are over , for them only to be deprived of the liberty of their consciences , when the wildest fanaticks are allowed it . ( ) because the diversity of sects which will be kept up by this means , will be always thought a plausible argument to draw men to the popish pretences of unity . ( ) because the allowed sects will in probability grow more insolent upon a legal indulgence , and bid defiance to the settled constitution ; as we have seen already by the yet visible effects of the former indulgence . if laws would alter the temper of mens minds , and make proud , selfwilled , froward and passionate men , become meek , and humble , gentle and peaceable , then it were great pitty , some men had not had the law on their side long ago . but is this to be looked for ? are we to expect the laws of men should work more upon them than the grace of god ? if such then continue peevish and quarelsome , full of wrath and bitterness against all that are not of their minds ; and they meet with men as froward and contentious as themselves ; will this look like the union of protestants ? and by-standers will be apt to say , if this be all that you mean by union of protestants , viz. a liberty to pray and preach , and to write and dispute one against another , there seems to be much more of sense and reason in the papal pretence to unity and infallibility . but what then ? is there nothing to be done for dissenting protestants , who agree with us in all doctrinal articles of our church ; and only scruple the use of a few ceremonies , and some late impositions ? shall these differences still be continued , when they may be so easily removed ? and so many useful men be incouraged and taken into the constitution ? do we value a few indifferent ceremonies , and some late declarations , and doubtful expressions , beyond the satisfaction of mens consciences , and the peace and stability of this church ? as to this material question , i shall crave leave to deliver my opinion freely and impartially ; and that , i. with respect to the case of the people ; the terms of whose union with us , is acknowledged by our brethren to be so much easier than their own . but these are of two sorts : . some allow the use of the liturgy , but say they cannot joyn in communion with us , because the participation of the sacraments hath such rites and ceremonies annexed to it , which they think unlawful ; and therefore till these be removed or left indifferent , they dare not joyn with us in baptism or the lords supper ; because in the one the cross is used , and in the other kneeling is required . as to these i answer , ( ) upon the most diligent search , i could make into these things , i find no good ground for any scruple of conscience , as to the use of these ceremonies ; and as little as any as to the sign of the cross , as it is used in our church ; notwithstanding all the noise that hath been made about its being a new sacrament , and i know not what , but of this at large in the following treatise . ( ) i see no ground for the peoples separation from other acts of communion , on the account of some rites they suspect to be unlawful . and especially when the use of such rites is none of their own act , as the cross in baptism is not ; and when such an explication is annexed concerning the intention of kneeling of the lords supper , as is in the rubrick after the communion . ( ) notwithstanding , because the use of sacraments in a christian church ought to be the most free from all exceptions , and they ought to be so administred , as rather to invite than discourage scrupulous persons from joyning in them ; i do think it would be a part of christian wisdom and condescension in the governours of our church , to remove those bars from a freedom in joyning in full communion with us , which may be done , either by wholly taking away the sign of the cross ; or if that may give offence to others , by confining the use of it to the publick administration of baptism ; or by leaving it indifferent , as the parents desire it . as to kneeling at the lords supper , since some posture is necessary , and many devout people scruple any other , and the primitive church did in antient times , receive it in the posture of adoration ; there is no reason to take this away , even in parochial churches ; provided , that those who scruple kneeling do receive it , with the least offence to others , and rather standing than sitting , because the former is most agreeable to the practise of antiquity , and of our neighbour reformed churches . as to the surplice in parochial churches , it is not of that consequence , as to bear a dispute one way or other . and as to cathedral churches , there is no necessity of alteration . but there is another thing which seems to be of late much scrupled in baptism , viz. the use of god-fathers and god-mothers excluding the parents . although i do not question but the practice of our church may be justified ( as i have done it towards the end of the following treatise ) yet i see no necessity of adhering so strictly to the canon herein , but that a little alteration may prevent these scruples , either by permitting the parents to joyn with the sponsors , or by the parents publickly desiring the sponsors to represent them in offering the child to baptism ; or , which seems most agreeable to reason , that the parents offer the child to baptism , and then the sponsors perform the covenanting part , representing the child ; and the charge after baptism be given in common to the parents and sponsors . these things being allowed , i see no obstruction remaining , as to a full union of the body of such dissenters with us , in all acts of divine worship , and christian communion , as do not reject all communion with us as unlawful . . but because there are many of those , who are become zealous protestants , and plead much their communion with us in faith and doctrine , although they cannot joyn with us in worship , because they deny the lawfulness of liturgies , and the right constitution of our churches ; their case deserves some consideration , whether and how far they are capable of being made serviceable to the common interest , and to the support of the protestant religion among us ? to their case i answer , first , that a general unlimited toleration to dissenting protestants , will soon bring confusion among us , and in the end popery , as i have shewed already ; and a suspension of all the penal laws that relate to dissenters is the same thing with a boundless toleration . secondly , if any present favours be granted to such , in consideration of our circumstances , and to prevent their conjunction with the papists , for a general toleration , ( for if ever the papists obtain it , it must be under their name ) if , i say , such favour be thought fit to be shewed them , it ought to be with such restrictions and limitations , as may prevent the mischief which may easily follow upon it . for all such meetings are a perpetual reproach to our churches , by their declaring , that our churches are no true churches , that our manner of worship is unlawful , and that our church-government is antichristian ; and that on these accounts they separate from us , and worship god by themselves . but if such an indulgence be thought fit to be granted , i humbly offer these things to consideration . . that none be permitted to enjoy the priviledge of it , who do not declare , that they do hold communion with our churches to be unlawful . for it seems unreasonable to allow it to others , and will give countenance to endless and causeless separations . . that all who enjoy it , besides taking the test against popery , do subscribe the articles of our faith , because the pretence of this liberty is joyning with us in points of faith ; and this may more probably prevent papists getting in amongst them . . that all such as enjoy it , must declare the particular congregations they are of , and enter their names before such commissioners as shall be authorised for that purpose ; that so this may be no pretence for idle , loose , and profane persons , never going to any church at all . . that both preachers and congregations be liable to severe penalties , if they use any bitter or reproachful words , either in sermons or writings , against the established constitution of our churches ; because they desire only the freedom of their own consciences ; and the using this liberty will discover , it is not conscience , but a turbulent factions humour , which makes them separate from our communion . . that all indulged persons be particularly obliged to pay all legal duties to the parochial churches ( lest meer covetousness tempt men to run among them ) and no persons so indulged be capable of any publick office. it not being reasonable , that such should be trusted with government , who look upon the worship established by law as unlawful . . that no other penalty be laid on such indulged persons , but that of twelve pence a sunday for their absence from the parochial churches , which ought to be duly collected for the vse of the poor , and cannot be complained of as any heavy burden , considering the liberty they do enjoy by it . . that the bishops , as visitors appointed by law , have an exact account given to them , of the rule of their worship and discipline , and of all the persons belonging to the indulged congregations , with their qualities and places of abode ; and that none be admitted a member of any such congregation without acquainting their visitor with it , that so means may be used to prevent their leaving our communion , by giving satisfaction to their scruples . this power of the bishops cannot be scrupled by them , since herein they are considered as commissioners appointed by law. . that no indulged persons presume under severe penalties to breed up scholars , or to teach gentlemens sons university learning ; because this may be justly looked on as a design to propagate schism to posterity , and to lay a foundation for the disturbance of future generations . ii. as to the case of the ejected mininisters , i have these things to offer , . that bare subscription of the thirty six articles concerning doctrinal points , be not allowed as sufficient to qualifie any man for a living , or any church-preferment , for these reasons , first , any lay-man upon these terms may not only be capable of a living , but may take upon him to administer the sacraments ; which was never allowed in any well constituted church in the christian world. and such an allowance among us , in stead of setling and uniting us , will immediately bring things into great confusion , and give mighty advantage to the papists against our church . and we have reason to fear , a design of this nature , under a pretence of union of protestants , tends to the subversion of this church , and throwing all things into confusion , which at last will end in popery . secondly , this will bring a faction into the church , which will more endanger it than external opposition . for such men will come in triumphantly , having beaten down three of the thirty nine articles ; and being in legal possession of their places , will be ready to d●fie and contemn those who submitted to the rest , and to glory in their conquests , and draw followers after them , as the victorious confessors against prelacy and ceremonies . and can they imagin those of the church of england will see the reputation of the church , or their own , to suffer so much , and not appear in their own vindication ? things are not come to that pass , nor will they suddenly be , that the friends of the church of england will be either afraid , or ashamed to own her cause . we do heartily and sincerely desire union with our brethren , if it may be had on just and reasonable terms ; but they must not think , that we will give up the cause of the church for it , so as to condemn its constitution , or make the ceremonies unlawful , which have been hitherto observed and practised in it . if any expedient can be found out for the ease of other mens consciences , without reflecting on our own ; if they can be taken in , without reproach or dishonour to the reformation of the church ; i hope no true son of the church of england will oppose it . but if the design be to bring them in as a faction to bridle and controll the episcopal power , by setting up forty bishops in a diocese against one ; if it be for them to trample upon the church of england , and not to submit to its order and government upon fair and moderate terms , let them not call this a design of union , but the giving law to a party to oppose the church of england . and what the success of this will be , let wise men judge . thirdly , if a subcription to thirty six articles were sufficient by the statute el. c. . i do not understand how by virtue of that statute a man is bound publickly to read the thirty nine articles in the church , and the testimonial of his subscription , on pain of being deprived ipso facto , if he do not . for the l. ch. i. coke faith , that subscription to the articles is required by force of of the act of parliament eliz. c. . and he adds , that the delinquent is disabled and deprived ipso facto ; and that a conditional subscription to them was not sufficient , was resolved by all the judges in england . but how a man should be deprived ipso facto , for not subscribing , and reading the articles , as appears by the cases mentioned in coke ; and yet be required onely to subscribe to , by the same statute , is a thing too hard for me to conceive . . but notwithstanding this , if any temper can be found out , as to the manner of subscription , that may give ease to the scruples of our brethren , and secure the peace of the church , the desired union may be attained without that apparent danger of increasing the factions among us . and this i suppose may be done , by an absolute subscription to all those articles which concern the doctrine of the true christian faith , and the use of the sacraments ; and a solemn promise under their hand , or subscription of peaceable submission , as to the rest , so as not to oppose or contradict them , either in preaching or writing ; upon the same penalty as if they had not subscribed to the . which may be a more probable means to keep the church in quiet , than forceing a more rigorous subscription upon them , or leaving them at their full liberty . . as to the other subscription required , . jac. to the articles . the first is provided for , by the oaths of allegiance and supremacy . the third is the same with the subscription to the articles . and as to the second , about the book of common prayer , &c. it ought to be considered , ( ) whether , for the satisfaction of the scrupulous , some more doubtful and obscure passages may not yet be explained or amended ? whether the new translation of the psalms were not fitter to be used , at least in parochial churches ? whether portions of canonical scripture were not better put in stead of apocrypha lessons ? whether the rubrick about salvation of infants , might not be restored to its former place , in the office of confirmation , and so the present exceptions against it be removed ? whether those expressions which suppose the strict exercise of discipline , in burying the dead , were not better left at liberty in our present case ? such a review made by wise and peaceable men , not given to wrath and disputing , may be so far from being a dishonour to this church , that it may add to the glory of it . ( ) upon such a review , whether it be not great reason that all persons who officiate in the church , be not only tied to a constant use of it in all publick offices ; ( as often as they administer them ) which they ought in person frequently to do , but to declare at their first entrance upon a parochial charge , their approbation of the use of it , after their own reading of it , that so the people may not suspect them to carry on a factious design , under an outward pretence of conformity to the rules of the church they live in . ( ) whether such a solemn using the liturgy , and approbation and promise of the use of it , may not be sufficient , in stead of the late form of declaring their assent and consent , which hath been so much scrupled by our brethren ? these are all the things which appear to me reasonable to be allowed in order to an union , and which i suppose may be granted without detriment or dishonour to our church . there are other things very desireable towards the happiness and flourishing of this church , as the exercise of discipline in parochial churches , in a due subordination to the bishop ; the reforming the ecclesiastical courts as to excommunication , without prejudice to the excellent profession of the civil law ; the building of more churches in great parishes , especially about the city of london ; the retrenching pluralities ; the strictness and solemnity of ordinations ; the making a book of canons suitable to this age , for the better regulating the conversations of the clergy . such things as these , might facilitate our union , and make our church in spite of all its enemies become a praise in the whole earth . the zeal i have for the true protestant religion , for the honour of this church , and for a firm union among brethren , hath transported me beyond the bounds of a preface ; which i do now conclude with my hearty prayers to almighty god , that he , who is the god of peace , and the fountain of wisdom , would so direct the counsels of those in authority , and incline the hearts of the people , that we may neither run into a wilderness of confusion , nor be driven into the abysse of popery ; but that the true religion being preserved among us , we may with one heart and mind serve the only true god , through his only son jesus christ the prince of peace , and our alone advocate and mediator . amen . the contents . part i. an historical account of the rise and progress of separation . § . no separation in the beginning of the reformation , although there were then the same reasons which are now pleaded . the terms of communion being the same which were required by the martyrs in queen maries days . § . a true account of the troubles of francfurt . mr. b's mistake about them . § . the first causes of the dislike of our ceremonies . § . the reasons of retaining them at the time of reformation . § . the tendencies to separation checked by beza and other reformed divines abroad . § . the heats of the nonconformists gave occasion to separation . § . their zele against it , notwithstanding their representing the sinfulness and mischief of it . § , . the true state of the controversie between the separatists and nonconformists . § . their answers to the separatists reasons . § . the progress of separation . the schisms and divisions among the separatists the occasion of independency . that makes separation more inexcusable , by owning some of our churches to be true churches . § . the mischiefs which followed independency both abroad , and § . hither into england . § . the controversie stated between the divines of the assembly and the dissenting brethren . § . the cause of the assembly given up by the present dissenters . § . the old nonconformists iudgment of the unlawfulness of mens preaching here , when forbidden by laws , fully cleared from some late objections . part ii. of the nature of the present separation . § . the different principles of separation laid down . the things agreed on with respect to our church . § . the largeness of parishes a mere colour and pretence ; shewed from mr. b's own words . § . the mystery of the presbyterian separation opened . § . the principles of it as to the people . of occasional communion , how far owned , and of what force in this matter , shewed from parallel cases . § . the reasons for this occasional communion examined . § . of the pretence of greater edification in separate meetings , never allowed by the separatists or independents as a reason for separation . no reason for this pretence she●ed from mr. b's words . § . the principles of separation as to the ministry of our churches . of joyning with our churches as oratories . § . of the peoples judging of the worthiness and competency of their ministers . mr. b's character of the people . the impertinency of this plea as to the london separation . § . the absurdity of allowing this liberty to separate from mr. b's own words . § . the allowance be gives for separation on the account of conformity . what publick worship may be forbidden . § . the ministry of our church charged with usurpation in many cases , and separation allowed on that account . § . of separation from ithacian prelatists . § . that the schism doth not always lie on the imposers side , where the terms of communion are thought sinful . § . the principles of the independent separation , or of those who hold all communion with our church unlawful . § . the nature of separation stated and explained . § . the charge of separation made good against those who hold occasional communion lawful . § . the obligation to constant communion , where occasional communion is allowed to be lawful , at large proved . § . the objection from our saviours practice answered . § . the text phil. . . cleared from all objections . § . a new exposition of that text shewed to be impertinent . § . the charge of separation proved against those who hold all communion with us unlawful . § , . the mischief brought upon the cause of the reformation by it . the testimonies of forein protestant divines to that purpose . § . no possibility of union among the protestant churches upon their grounds , which hath been much wished for and desired by the best protestants . § . all the ancient schisms justifiable on the same pretences . § . there can be no end of separation on the like grounds . mr. a's plea for schism at large considered . § . the obligation on christians to preserve the peace and unity of the church . the cases mentioned wherein separation is allowed by the scripture . in all others it is proved to be a great sin . part iii. of the pleas for the present separation . sect. . the plea for separation from the constitution of the parochial churches considered . sect. . iustice hobart's testimony for congregational churches answered . sect. . no evidence in antiquity for independent congregations . sect. . the church of carthage governed by episcopal power , and not democratical in s. cyprian's time . sect. , . no evidence in scripture of more churches than one in a city , though there be of more congregations . sect. . no rule in scripture to commit church-power to a single congregation ; but the general rules extend it further . sect. . of diocesan episcopacy ; the question about it stated . but one bishop in a city in the best churches , though many assemblies . sect. . diocesan episcopacy clearly proved in the african churches . the extent of s. austin's diocess . sect. . diocesan episcopacy of alexandria . the largeness of theodoret's diocese : the testimony of his epistle cleared from all mr. b's . late objections . sect. . diocese episcopacy not repugnant to any institution of christ proved from mr. b. himself . sect. . the power of presbyters in our church . sect. . the episcopal power succeeds the apostolical , proved from many testimonies . sect. . what power of discipline is left to parochial churches , as to admission . sect. . whether the power of suspension be no part of church discipline . sect. , . of the defect of discipline ; and whether it overthrows the being of our parochial churches . sect. . of national churches , and the grounds on which they are built . sect. . the advantages of national churches above independent congregations . sect. . mr. b's . quaeries about national churches answered . the notion of the church of england explained . sect. . what necessity of one constitutive regent part of a national church . sect. . what consent is necessary to the union of a national church . sect. . other objections answered . sect. . of the peoples power of choosing their own pastors . not founded in scripture . sect. . the testimony of antiquity concerning it fully inquired into . the great disturbances of popular elections : the ganons against them . the christian princes interposing . the ancient rights of nomination and presentation . the practice of foreign protestant churches . no reason to take away the rights of patronage to put the choice into the peoples hands . objections answered . sect. . no unlawfulness in the terms of our communion . of substantial parts of worship . the things agreed on both sides . sect. . the way of finding the difference between their ceremonies and parts of divine worship cleared . sect. . the difference of the popish doctrine from ours as to ceremonies . sect. . the sign of the cross a rule of admission into our church , and no part of divine worship . sect. no new sacrament . mr. b's . objections answered . sect. . his great mistakes about the papist's doctrine concerning the moral casuality of sacraments . sect. . of the customs observed in our church , though not strictly required . sect. . of the censures of the church against opposers of ceremonies , and the force of excommunication ipso facto . sect. . of the plea of an erroneous conscience in the case of separation . sect. . of scruples of conscience still remaining . sect. . of the use of godfathers and godmothers in baptism . sect. . no ground of separation because more ceremonies may be introduced . sect. . no parity of reason as to the dissenters pleas for separating from our church , and our separation from the church of rome . an appendix containing several letters of eminent protestant divines abroad , shewing the unreasonableness of the present separation from the church of england . letter of monsieur le moyn , — p. of monsieur le angle , — p. of monsieur claude , — p. errata in the preface . page . marg . r. church history l. p. . p. . l. . after find insert in . p. . l. . for s. paul r. the apostle , p. . l. . r. follows . p. . l. . for our r. one . in the book . p. . l. . for ( ) r. ( ) p. . l. . r. secession . p. . l , . r. as will. l. . r. for which . l. ult . r. cameron . p. , l , . dele for before say they . p. . l. . r. their teachers . p. . l. . dele whether . an historical account of the rise and progress of the controversie about separation . part . i. sect. i. for our better understanding the state of this controversie , it will be necessary to premise these two things . . that although the present reasons for separation would have held from the beginning of our reformation , yet , no such thing was then practised , or allowed , by those who were then most zealous for reformation . . that when separation began , it was most vehemently opposed by those non-conformists who disliked many things in our church , and wished for a farther reformation . and from a true account of the state of the controversie then , it will appear , that the principles owned by them , do overthrow the present practise of separation among us . in the making out of these , i shall give a full account of the rise and progress of this controversie about separation from the communion of our church . i. that although the present reasons for separation would have held from the beginning of the reformation , yet no such thing was then practised , or allowed by those who were then most zealous for reformation . by separation we mean nothing else , but withdrawing from the constant communion of our church , and ioyning with separate congregations for greater purity of worship , and better means of edification . by the present reasons for separation we understand such as are at this day insisted on , by those who pretend to justifie these practises ; and those are such , as make the terms of communion with our church to be unlawful . and not one of all those , which my adversaries at this time hope to justifie the present separation by , but would have had as much force in the beginning of the reformation . for our church stands on the same grounds ; useth the same ceremonies ( only fewer ; ) prescribes the same liturgy ( only more corrected ; ) hath the same constitution and frame of government ; the same defect of discipline ; the same manner of appointing parochial ministers ; and at least as effectual means of edification , as there were when the reformation was first established . and what advantage there is , in our present circumstances , as to the number , diligence and learning of our allowed preachers ; as to the retrenching of some ceremonies , and the explication of the meaning of others ; as to the mischiefs we have seen follow the practice of separation , do all make it much more unreasonable now , than it had been then . sect. ii. it cannot be denied , that there were different apprehensions concerning some few things required by our church in the beginning of the reformation ; but they were such things , as are the least scrupled now . rogers refused the wearing of a square cap , and tippet , &c. unless a difference were made between the popish priests and ours . hooper at first scrupled the episcopal habits , but he submitted afterwards to the use of them . bucer , and some others , disliked some things in the first common-prayer-book of edward the sixth , which were corrected in the second : so that upon the review of the liturgy there seemed to be little or no dissatisfaction left in the members of our church ; at least , as to those things which are now made the grounds of separation . for we read of none , who refused the constant use of the liturgy , or to comply with those very few ceremonies which were retained , as the cross in baptism , and kneeling at the communion , which are now thought such bugbears to scare people from our communion , and make them cry out in such a dreadful manner of the mischief of impositions ; as though the church must unavoidably be broken in pieces by the weight and burden of two or three such insupportable ceremonies . now we are told , that it is unreasonable that any should create a necessity of separation , and then complain of an impossibility of vnion . by whom ? at what time ? in what manner was this necessity of separation created ? hath our church made any new terms of communion , or alter'd the old ones ? no : the same author saith , it is perpetuating the old conditions , and venturing our peace in an old worm-eaten bottom , wherein it must certainly misc●rry . not to insist on his way of expression , in calling the reformation , an old worm-eaten bottom ; which ill be●omes them , that would now be held the most zealous protestants . i would only know , if those terms of communion which were imposed by the martyrs , and other reformers , and which are only continued by us , do , as this author saith , create a necessity of separation ; how then it came to pass , that in all king edward's dayes , there was no such thing as division in our church about them ? and even dr. ames , who searched as carefully as any into this matter , can bring no other instances of any differences then , but those of rogers and hooper : he adds indeed , that ridley and others agreed with hooper . wherein ? what , in opposing our ceremonies , when hooper himself yielded in that which he at first scrupled ? no , but there was a perfect reconciliation between them , before they suffered . and what then ? is there any the least colour of evidence , that before that reconciliation , either hooper or rogers held separate assemblies from the conformists , or that ridley ever receded from his stedfast adhering to the orders of this church ? this is then a very mean artifice , and disingenuous insinuation . for although ridley , in his letter to hooper , out of his great modesty and humility , seems to take the blame upon himself , by attributing the greater wisdom to hooper in that difference ; yet he doth not retract his opinion , but only declares the hearty love that he bore to him for his constancy in the truth . neither do we find that ever hooper repented of his subm●ssion , to which he was so earnestly perswaded , both by peter martyr , and martin bucer ; and peter martyr in his letter to bucer condemns his frowardness , and saith , that his cause was by no means approved by the wiser and better sort of men. but ames saith , mr. bradford might have been added , who calleth forked caps and tippets , antichristian pelf and baggage . suppose this were true , it proves no more than that a good man had an unreasonable scruple , and such as is thought so by our brethren themselves at this day . but did he ever divide the church on such an account as this ? did he set up separate congregations , because a square cap and a tippet would not go down with him ? no , he was a far better man than to do so . but if the whole words had been set down , the seeming force of these words had been taken away , for they are these ; the cogniza●ce of the lord standeth not in forked caps , tippets , shaven crowns , or such other baggage and artichristian pelf , but in suffering for the lords sake ; i.e. it is more a mark of gods service to suffer martyrdom as a protestant , than to be at ease as a romish priest , for he puts them altogether , caps , tippets , and shaven crowns . and what is this to the impositions of our church , or separation on the account of them ? dr. ames knew too much , to pretend to any thing like that in those times ; for there was no such thing as separation from our church then heard of , on the account of these dividing impositions . some furious anabaptists it may be , or secret papists then had separate meetings , of which ridley bids enquiry to be made , in his articles of visitation ; but no protestants , none that joyned in the articles of our fait● , and substantials of religion with our church , as dr. o. speaks , did then ap●●ehend any 〈◊〉 of separation from it ; not for 〈◊〉 of the a●●● sign of the cross ; nor kneeling at the communion ; nor the religious observation of holy-days ; nor the constant use of the liturgy ; nor any one of all the particulars mentioned by dr. o. which he saith , makes our communion unlawful and separation from it to be necessary . how come these terms of communion to be so unlawful now ; which were then approved by such holy , learned , and excellent men as our first reformers ? were they not arrived to that measure of attainments , or comprehension of the truths of the gospel , that men in our age are come to ? is it credible , that men of so great integrity , such indefatigable industry , such profound judgment , as cranmer and ridley , who were the heads of the reformation , should discern no such sinfulness in these things , which now every dissenting artificer can cry out upon , as unlawful ? is it possible , that men that sifted every thing with so much care themselves , and made use of the best help from others , and begg●d the divine assistance , should so fatally miscarry in a matter of such might importance to the souls of men ? could not latimer , or bradford , or such holy and mortified men as they , discern so much as a mote of unlawfulness in those times , which others espy such beams in now ? what makes this wonderful difference of eye-sight ? were they under a cloudy , and dark , and iewish dispensation ; and all the clear gospel light of division and separation reserved for our times ? did they want warmth and zeal for religion , who burnt at the stake for it ? doth god reveal his will to the meek , the humble , the inquisitive , the resolute minds ? and would he conceal such weighty things from those who were so desirous to find the truth , and so resolved to adhere to it ? if diocesan episcopacy , and the constitution of our church were such an unlawful thing , as some now make it , it is strange such men should have no suspition of it , no not when they went to suffer ? for as h. iacob , the old nonconformist , saith , in answer to iohnson the separatist , did not m. cranmer hold himself for arch-bishop still , and that he was by the pope unjustly and unsufficiently deposed , and by queen mary forcibly restrained from it ? did he ever repent of holding that office to his death ? also did not ridley stand upon his right to the bishoprick of london though ready to die ? latimer , though he renounced his bishoprick , yet he kept his ministery , and never repented him of it . philpo● never disliked his archdeaconry : yea , when he refused bloody bonner , yet he appealed to his ordinary the bishop of winchester . the like mind is to be seen in bishop farrar . and generally , whosoever were ministers then of the prelats ordination , they never renounced it , though they died martyrs . johnson indeed quotes some passages of bradford , hooper , and bale against the hierarchy ; but he notoriously misapplies the words of bradford , which are , the time was when the pope was out of england , but not all popery ; which he would have understood of the times of reformation , under edward vi. whereas he speaks them expresly of king henry's days . and it is not credible , hooper should think the hierarchy unlawful , who ( as it is generally believed ) had the administration of two bishopricks at once . bale's words were spoken in henry viii . his time ; and could not be meant of a protestant hierarchy , for he was after a bishop himself . but h. iacob answers to them all , that supposing these men disliked the hierarchy , it made the stronger against the principles of separation : seeing for all that , they did not refuse to communicate and partake with them then as true christians . and that not only occasionally and at certain seasons , but they maintained constant and fixed communion with our church as the members of it . sect. . thus matters stood as to communion with our church in the days of edward vi. but as soon as the persecution began in queen mary's time , great numbers were forced to betake themselves to foreign parts , whereof some went to zurick , others to basil , others to strasburg , and others to frankford . grindal in a letter to b. ridley , saith they were nigh students and ministers then in exile : these , with the people in all other places , geneva excepted , kept to the orders established in our church ; but at frankford some began to be very busie in reforming our liturgy , leaving out many things , and adding others ; which occasioned the following troubles of frankford . the true ground whereof is commonly much mis-represented . mr. baxter saith , the difference was between those which strove for the english liturgy , and others that were for a free-way of praying , i.e. as he explains it , from the present sense and habit of the speaker : but that this is a great mistake , will appear from the account published of them , a. d. . by one that was a friend to the dissenting party . from which it appears , that no sooner were the english arriv'd at frankford , but the minister of the french congregation there , came to them and told them , he had obtained from the magistrates the freedom of a church for those who came out of england , but especially for the french ; they thanked him and the magistrates for so much kindness , but withal let them understand this would be little benefit to the english , unless they might have the liberty of performing all the offices of religion in their own tongue upon an address made to the senate , this request was granted them ; and they were to make use of the french church at different times , as the french and they could agree , but with this express proviso , that they should not dissent from the french in doctrine , or ceremonies , lest they should thereby minister occasion of offence . but afterwards , it seems , the magistrates did not require them to be strictly tied up to the french ceremonies , so they did mutually agree . upon this , they perused the english order , and endeavour'd to bring it as near as they could to the french model , by leaving out the responses , the letany , surplice , and many other things ; and adding a larger confession , more suitable to the state and time ; after which a psalm was sung ; then the minister , after a short prayer for divine assistance ( according to calvins custom ) was to proceed to the sermon ; which being ended , then followed a general prayer for all estates , particularly for england , ending with the lords prayer ; and so repeating the articles of the creed , and another psalm sung , the people were dismissed with the blessing . by which we see , here was not the least controversie , whether a liturgy or not ; but whether the order of service was not to be accommodated , as much as might be , to the french model . however , when they sent to the english in other places to resort thither , by reason of the great conveniencies they enjoy'd , and acquainted them with what they had done ; it gave great offence to them , which they expressed in their letters . those of zurick sent them word , they determined to use no other order , than that which was last established in england ; and in another letter , they desire to be assured from them , that if they removed thither , they should all joyn in the same order of service concerning religion , which was in england last set forth by king edward . to this the congregation of frankford returned answer , that they could not , in all points , warrant the full vse of the book of service , which they impute to their present circumstances , in which they suppose such alterations would be allowed ; but they intended not hereby to deface the worthy lawes and ordinances of king edward . these learned men of strasburg , understanding their resolutions , send grindall to them with a letter subscribed by ; wherein they intreat them , to reduce the english church there , as much as possible , to the order lately set forth in england , lest , say they , by much altering of the same , they should seem to condemn the chief authors thereof , who , as they now suffer , so are they most ready to confirm that fact with the price of their bloods ; and should also both give occasion to our adversaries to accuse our doctrine of imperfection , and us of mutability ; and the godly to doubt of that truth wherein before they were perswaded , and to hinder their coming thither , which before they had purposed . and to obtain their desire , they tell them , they had sent persons for that end to negotiate this affair with the magistrates , and , in case they obtained their request , they promised to come and joyn with them ; and they did not question the english in other places would do the same . notwithstanding the weight of these reasons , and the desireableness of their brethrens company in that time of exile , they persist in their former resolutions , not to have the entire english liturgy ; for by this time knox was come from geneva , being chosen minister of the congregation : however , they returned this answer to strasburg , that they made as little alteration as was possible ; for , certain ceremonies the country would not bear ; and they did not dissent from those which lie at the ransom of their bloods for the doctrine , whereof they have made a most worthy confession . about this time , some suggested , that they should take the order of geneva , as farthest from superstition ; but knox declined this , till they had advised with the learned men at strasburg , zurick , emden , &c. knowing , that the odium of it would be thrown upon him . but finding their zeal and concernment for the english liturgy , he , with whittingham , and some others , drew up an abstract of it , and sent it to calvin , desiring his judgment of it . who , upon perusal of it , being throughly heated in a cause , that so nearly concerned him , writes a very sharp letter , directed to the brethren at frankford ; gently rebuking them for their unseasonable contentions about these matters , but severely reproving the english divines who stood up for the english liturgy , when the model of geneva stood in competition with it . and yet after all his censures of it , he confesses . the things he thought most unfit , were tolerable ; but he blames them , if they did not choose a better , when they might choose ; but he gives not the least incouragement to separation if it were continued ; and he declares for his own part , how easie he was to yield , in all indifferent things , such as external rites are . and he was so far , in his judgment , from being for free prayer , or making the constant use of a liturgy a ground of separation , as dr. o. doth , that when he delivered his opinion , with the greatest freedom , to the then protector , about the best method of reformation , he declares , that he did mightily approve a certain form , from which men ought not to vary , both to prevent the inconveniencies which some mens folly would betray them to , in the free way of praying ; and to manifest the general consent of the churches in their prayers ; and to stop the vain affectation of some who love to be shewing some new things . let mr. br. now judge , whether it were likely that the controversie then at frankford , was , as he saith , between them that were for the english liturgy , and others that were for a free way of praying ; when calvin , to whom the dissenters appealed , was so much , in his judgment , against the latter . and it appears , by calvin's letter to cox and his brethren , that the state of the case at frankford had not been truly represented to him ; which made him write with greater sharpness than otherwise he would have done ; and he expresses his satisfaction , that the matter was so composed among them , when by dr. cox his means , the english liturgy was brought into use at frankford . and to excuse himself for his liberal censures before , he mentions lights , as required by the book , which were not in the second liturgy of edward the sixth . so that either they deceived him , who sent him the abstract ; or he was put to this miserable shift to defend himself ; the matter being ended contrary to his expectation . for , although upon the receipt of calvin's letter , the order of geneva had like to have been presently voted in , yet there being still some fast friends to the english service , they were fain to compromise the matter , and to make use of a mixt form for the present . but , dr. cox , and others , coming thither from england , and misliking these alterations , declared . that they were for having the face of an english church there ; and so they began the letany next sunday ; which put knox into so great a rage , that in stead of pursuing his text ( which was directly contrary ) he made it his business , to lay open the nakedness of our church , as far as his wit and ill will would carry him . he charged the service-book with superstition , impurity , and imperfection ; and the governors of our church with slackness in reformation , want of discipline , with the business of hooper , allowing pluralities ; all the ill things he could think on . when cox and his party ( with whom , at this time , was our excellent iewel ) were admitted among them , they presently forbad knox having any thing farther to do in that congregation ; who being complained of soon after for treason against the emperor , in a book by him published , he was forced to leave the city , and to retire to geneva ; whither most of his party followed him . and thus saith grindal , in his letter to bishop ridley , the church at frankford was well quieted by the prudence of mr. cox , and others , which met there for that purpose . sect. . it is observed by the author of the life of bishop jewel ( before his works ) that this controversie was not carried with them out of england , but they received new impressions from the places whither they went. for as those who were exiles in henry the eighth's time ( as particularly hooper , who lived many years in switzerland ) brought home with them a great liking of the churches model , where they had lived ( which being such as their country would bear , they supposed to be nearer apostolical simplicity , being far enough from any thing of pomp , or ceremony ) which created in them an aversion to the ornaments and vestments here used : so now , upon this new persecution , those who had friendship at geneva , as knox , and whittingham , or were otherwise much obliged by those of that way , as the other english were , who came first to frankford , were soon possessed with a greater liking of their model of divine service , than of our own . and when men are once engaged in parties , and several interests , it is a very hard matter to remove the prejudices which they have taken in , especially when they have great abettors , and such , whose authority goes beyond any reason with them . this is the true foundation of those unhappy differences , which have so long continued among us , about the orders and ceremonies of our church . for when calvin and some others found , that their counsel was not like to be followed in our reformation , our bishops proceeding more out of reverence to the ancient church , than meer opposition to popery ( which some other reformers made their rules ) they did not cease by letters , and other wayes , to insinuate , that our reformation was imperfect , as long as any of the dregs of popery remained . so they called the vse of those ceremonies , which they could not deny to have been far more ancient than the great apostasy of the roman church . calvin , in his letter to the protector , avows this to be the best rule of reformation , to go as far from popery as they could ; and therefore what habits and ceremonies had been abused in the time of popery were to be removed , lest others were hardened in their superstition thereby : but at last he yields to this moderation in the case ; that such ceremonies might be reteined as were easie , and fitted to the capacities of the people ; provided they were not such , as had their beginning from the devil , or antichrist , i.e. were not first begun in the time of popery . now , by this rule of moderation our church did proceed ; for it took away all those ceremonies which were of late invention . as in baptism , of all the multitude of rites in the roman church , it reserved , in the second liturgy , only the cross after baptism ; which was not so used in the roman church ; for there the sign of the cross is used in the scrutinies before baptism ; and the anointing with the chrysm in vertice after it ; in stead of these , our church made choice of the sign of the cross after baptism , being of uncontroulable antiquity , and not used till the child is baptized . in the eucharist , in stead of fifteen ceremonies required in the church of rome , our church hath only appointed kneeling . i say appointed , for although kneeling at the elevation of the host , be strictly required by the roman church , yet in the act of receiving it is not ; ( as manifestly appears by the popes manner of receiving , which is not kneeling , but either sitting , as it was in bonaventures time ; or after the fashion of sitting , or a little leaning upon his throne , as he doth at this day ) therefore our church taking away the adoration at the elevation , lest it should seem to recede from the practise of antiquity , which received the eucharist in the posture of adoration then used , hath appointed kneeling to be observed of all communicants . in stead of the great number of consecrated vestments in the roman church , it only retained a plain linnen garment , which was unquestionably used in the times of st. hierome , and st. augustin . and lastly , as to the episcopal habits , they are retained only as a mark of distinction of a certain order of men ; the colour of the chimere being changed from scarlet to black. these are now the ceremonies , about which all the noise and stir hath been made in our church ; and any sober , considering man , free from passion , and prejudice , would stand amazed at the clamour and disturbance which hath been made in this church , and is at this day , about the intolerable mischief of these impositions . sect. . but the most material question they ever ask , is , why were these few retained by our reformers , which were then distastful to some protestants , and were like to prove the occasion of future contentions ? i will here give a just and true account of the reasons which induced our reformers either to retain , or to apoint these ceremonies , and then proceed . . out of a due reverence to antiquity . they would hereby convince the papists they did put a difference between the gross and intolerable superstitions of popery , and the innocent rites and practises which were observed in the church before . and what could more harden the papists , then to see men put no difference betwen these ? it is an unspeakable advantage which those do give to the papists , who are for reforming years backward , and when they are pinch'd with a testimony of antiquity , presently cry out of the mystery of iniquity working in the apostles times : as though every thing which they disliked , were a part of it . next to the taking up arms for religion , which made men look on it as a faction and design , there was scarce any thing gave so great a check to the progress of the reformation in france , especially among learned and moderate men , as the putting no difference between the corruptions of popery , and the innocent customs of the ancient church . for the time was when many great men there , were very inclinable to a reformation ; but when they saw the reformers oppose the undoubted practises of antiquity , equally with the modern corruptions , they cast them off , as men guilty of an unreasonable humor of innovation ; as may be seen in thuanus , and fran. baldwins ecclesiastical commentaries , and his answers to calvin and beza . but our reformers , although they made the scripture the only rule of faith , and rejected all things repugnant thereto ; yet they designed not to make a transformation of a church , but a reformation of it ; by reducing it as near as they could , to that state it was in , under the first christian emperors , that were sound in religion ; and therefore they retained these few ceremonies as badges of the respect they bore to the ancient church . ii. to manifest the iustice and equity of the reformation ; by letting their enemies see , they did not break communion with them for meer indifferent things . for some of the popish bishops of that time were subtle and learned men , as gardiner , heath , tonstall , &c. and nothing would have rejoyced them more , than to have seen our reformers boggle at such ceremonies as these ; and they would have made mighty advantage of it among the people . of which we have a clear instance in the case of bishop hoopers scrupling the episcopal vestments . peter martyr tells him plainly , that such needless scrupulosity would be a great hindrance to the reformation . for , saith he , since the people are with difficulty enough brought to things necessary , if we once declare things indifferent to be unlawful , they will have no patience to hear us any longer . and , withall , hereby we condemn other reformed churches , and those ancient churches , which have hitherto to been in great esteem . iii. to shew their consent with other protestant churches , which did allow and practice the same , or more ceremonies , as the lutheran churches generally did . and even calvin himself , in his epistle to sadolet , declared , that he was for restoring the face of the antient church ; and in his book of the true way of reformation , he saith , he would not contend about ceremonies , not only those which are for decency , but those that are symbolical . oecolampadius looked on the gesture at the sacrament , as indifferent . bucer thought the use of the sign of the cross after baptism neither indecent nor unprofitable . since therefore , so great a number of protestant churches used the same ceremonies ; and the chief leaders of other reformed churches thought them not unlawful , our first reformers for this , and the foregoing reasons , thought it fit to retain them , as long as they were so few , so easie both to be practised and understood . sect. . but the impressions which had been made on some of our divines abroad , did not wear off , at their return home , in the beginning of queen elizabeths reign . for they reteined a secret dislike of many things in our church ; but the act of vniformity being passed , and the vse of the liturgy strictly enjoyned ; i do not find any separation made then on the account of it ; no , not by the dissenting brethren , that withdrew from frankford to geneva ; knox was forbidden to preach here , because of some personal reflections on the queen ; but whittingham , sampson , gilby , and others , accepted of preferment and imployment in the church . the bishops , at first , shewed kindness to them , on the account of their forward and zealous preaching , which at that time was very needful ; and therefore many of them were placed in london . where , having gained the people by their zeal and diligence in preaching , they took occasion to let fall at first their dislike of the ceremonies , and a desire of farther reformation of our liturgy ; but finding that they had gained ground , they never ceased , till by inveighing against the livery of antichrist , as they called the vestments and ceremonies , they had inflamed the people to that degree , that gilby himself insinuates , that if they had been let alone a little longer , they would have shaken the constitution of this church . this was the first occasion of pressing vniformity with any rigor ; and therefore some examples were thought fit to be made for the warning of others . but as kindness made them presumptuous , so this severity made them clamorous ; and they sent bitter complaints to geneva . beza , after much importunity , undertook to give an answer to them ; which being of great consequence to our present business , i shall here give a fuller account of it . we are then to understand , that about this time , the dissenting party being exasperated , by the silencing some of their most busie preachers , began to have separate meetings ; this beza takes notice of in his epistle to grindal bishop of london ; and it appears , by an examination taken before him , th of iune . of certain persons , who were accused not only for absenting themselves from their parish churches ; but for gathering together and making assemblies , using prayers and preachings , and ministring sacraments among themselves ; and hiring a hall in london under pretence of a wedding , for that purpose . the bishop of london first rebuked them for their lying pretences , and then told them , that in this severing themselves from the society of other christians , they not only condemned them , but also the whole state of the church reformed in king edward's dayes , which was well reformed according to the word of god ; yea , and many good men have shed their . blood for the same , which your doings condemn . have ye not , saith he , the gospel truly preached , and the sacraments ministred accordingly , and good order kept , although we differ from other churches in ceremonies , and in indifferent things , which lie in the princes power to command , for order sake ? to which one of them answered , that as long as they might have the word freely preached , and the sacraments administred , without the preferring of idolatrous gear about it , they never assembled together in houses : but their preachers being displaced by law for their non-conformity , they be thought themselves what was best for them to do ; and calling to mind , that there was a congregation there in the dayes of queen mary , which followed the order of geneva , they took up that , and this book and order , saith he , we hold . another answered , that they did not refuse communion for preaching the word , but because they had tied the ceremonies of antichrist to it ; and set them up before it , so that no man may preach , or minister the sacraments without them . things being come to this height , and separation beginn●ng to break out , the wiser brethren thought not fit to proceed any farther , till they had consulted their oracle at geneva . beza being often solicited by them , with doleful complaints of their hard usage , and the different opinions among themselves , what they were to do , at last resolves to answer ; but first he declares , how unwilling he was to interpose in the differences of another church , especially when but one party was heard ; and he was afraid , this was only the way to exasperate and provoke more , rather than cure this evil , which he thought was not otherwise to be cured , but precibus & patientiâ , by prayers and patience . after this general advice , beza freely declares his own judgment , as to the reformation of several things he thought amiss in our church ; but as to the case of the silenced preachers , and the peoples separation , he expresses his mind in that manner , that the dissenters at this day , would have published their invectives against him , one upon the back of another . for ( . ) as to the silenced ministers , he saith , that if the pressing subscription continued , he perswades them rather to live privately than to yield to it . for , they must either act against their consciences , or they must quit their imployments ; for , saith he , the third thing that may be supposed , viz. that they should exercise their function against the will of the queen and the bishops , we tremble at the thoughts of it , for such reasons , as may be easily understood , though we say never a word of them . what! is beza for silencing , and stopping the mouths of such a number of faithful and able ministers ; and at such a time , when the church was in so great necessity of preaching , and so many souls like to be famished for the want of it ? when st. antholins , st. peters , st. bartholomews , at which gilby saith their great preaching then was , were like to be left destitute of such men ? would beza , even beza , at such a time , as that , be for silencing so many preachers , i. e. for their sitting quiet , when the law had done it ; and would not he suffer them to preach , when they ought to have done it , though against the will of the queen and the bishops ? it appears that beza was not of the mind of our adversaries , but that he was of the contrary , it appears plainly by this , that before he perswades the dissenting ministers rather to live privately than to subscribe ; and that he expresses no such terrible apprehensions at their quitting their places , as he doth at their preaching in opposition to the laws . ( ) as to the case of the people , his advice was , as long as the doctrine was sound , that they should diligently attend upon it , and receive the sacraments devoutly , and to joyn amendment of life with their prayers , that by those means they might obtain a through reformation . so that nothing can be more express against s●paration , than what is here said by beza : for , even as to the ministers , he saith , though he did not approve the ceremonies , yet since they are not of the nature of things evil in themselves , he doth not think them of that moment , that they should leave their functions for the sake of them ; or that the people should forsake the ordinances , rather than hear those who did conform . than which words , nothing can be plainer against separation . and it further appears , by beza ' s resolution of a case concerning a schism in the french church then in london ; that he looked on it as a sin , for any one to separate from a church , wherein sound doctrine , and a holy life , and the right use of the sacraments is kept up . and , by separation , he saith , he means , not meerly going from one church to another , but the discontinuing communion with the publick assemblies , as though one were no member of them . beza's authority being so great with the dissenting brethren at that time , seems to have put an effectual stop to the course of separation , which they were many of them , then inclined to . but , he was not alone among the foreign divines , who , about that time , expressed themselves against separation from the communion of our church , notwithstanding the rites and ceremonies herein used . for gualter , a divine of good reputation in the helvetian churches , takes an occasion in an epistle to several of our bishops to talke of the difference then about these things ; and he extremely blames the morose humor of those , who disturbed the church for the sake of such things , and gave an occasion thereby to endless separations . and in an epistle to cox bishop of ely , . he tells him , how much they had disswaded them from making such a stir in the church , about matters of no moment : and he complains grievously of the lies and prejudices against our church , which they had sent men on purpose to possess them with , both at geneva and other places . zanchy , upon great sollicitation , wrote an earnest letter to the queen to remove the ceremonies ; but withal he sent another to bishop iewel , to perswade the non-conformists , if the queen could not be moved , not to leave their churches on such accounts , which , for his part , he did not understand how any could lawfully do ; as long as they had otherwise liberty to preach the gospel , and administer the sacraments , although they were forced to do something therein , which did not please them ; as long as the things were of that kind , which in themselves were neither good nor evil . and the same reason will much more hold against the peoples s●paration . sect. . but about this time , the dissenting party much increasing , and most of the old and peaceable non-conformists being dead , or unfit for business ; the management of their affairs fell into the hands of younger and fiercer men. who thought their predecessors too cold in these matters ; insomuch , that honest iohn fox complained of the factious and turbulent spirit which had then possessed that party , although himself a moderate non-conformist ; and he saith , they despised him , because he could not rail against bishops , and archbishops as they did ; but if he could be as mad as they , they would be kinder to him . and therefore he soberly adviseth the governors of the church to look well after this sort of men ; for , saith he , if they prevail , it is not to be imagin'd , what mischief and disturbance they will bring ; whose hypocrisie is more subtle and pernicious then that of the old monks ; for , under a pretence of greater purity , they will never give over , till they have brought men under a iewish slavery . these new men , full of bitter zeal , despised the old trifling controversie about garments and ceremonies , they complained , that all was out of order in the church , and nothing but a new and thorough reformation would please them . for , in the admonition presented to the parliament , eliz. they complain for want of a right ministry , a right government in the church according to the scriptures , without which ( they say ) there could be no right religion . the liturgy they deride , as c●lled and picked out of the popish dunghill , the portuise and mass-book ; the government of the church by arch-bishops and bishops they call devillish and antichristian ; and condemn the vocation of the clergy , as popish and vnlawful ; and add , that the sacraments are mangled , and profaned , that baptism is full of childish and superstitious toys . all which , and many more expressions of a like nature , are extant in the first and second admonitions . which bold and groundless assertions , being so openly avowed to the world , by the leaders of the dissenting party , gave the true occasion to the following practise of separation . for when these things were not only published in the name of the party , being the pleas for peace at that time , but stifly maintained with greater heat , than learning , it is easie to imagine , what impressions such things would make on the common sort of people ; who have still a good inclination to find fault with their governors , especially in the church , and to admire those that oppose them . and these they courted most , having their opinions so suited to vulgar capacities , that they apprehended their interest carried on together with that of purity of reformation . hence they pleaded then , as others do at this day , for the peoples right to choose their bishops and pastors against the vsurpations , as they accounted them , of princes and patrons ; hence they railed against the pomp and greatness of the clergy , which is always a popular theme ; and so would the exposing the inequality of mens estates be , if men durst undertake it , with as great hopes of impunity . besides , it was not a little pleasant to the people , to think , what a share they should come to in the new seigniory , as they called it , or presbytery , to be erected in every parish ; and what authority they should exercise over their neighbours , and over their minister too by their double votes . by such arts as these , they complied with the natural humors of the people , and so gained a mighty interest amongst them ; as the anabaptists in germany and switzerland at first did , upon the like grounds . which made bullinger , in an epistle to robert bishop of winchester , parallel the proceedings of this party here , with that of the anabaptists with them in those countries ; for , saith he , we had a sort of people here , to whom nothing seemed pure enough in our reformation , from whence they brake out into separation , and had their conventicles among us , upon which followed sects and schisms , which made great entertainment to our common enemies , the papists . just thus it happened here , these hot reformers designed no separation at present ; which they knew would unavoidably bring confusion along with it ; for , that was laying the reins on the peoples ne●ks , and they would run whither they pleased , without any possibility of being well managed by them ; but since these men would refine upon the present constitution of our church , there soon arose another sort of men , who thought it as fit to refine upon them . they acknowledged they had good principles among them , but they did not practise according to them : if our church were so bad as they said , that there was neither right ministery , nor right government , nor right sacraments , nor right discipline ; what follows , say they , from hence , but that we ought to separate from the communion of so corrupt a church , and joyn together to make up new churches for the pure administration of all gospel ordinances ? the leaders of the non-conformists finding this party growing up under them , were quickly apprehensive of the danger of them ; because the consequence seemed so natural from their own principles ; and the people were so ready to believe , that nothing but worldly considerations of interest and safety kept them from practising according to them . which was a mighty prejudice against them in the minds of the separatists , as appears by robinsons preface to his book of communion . sect. . ii. the separation being now begun , the non-conformists set themselves against it , with the greatest vehemency . which is the second thing i am to make out . as for those of the separation , saith parker a noted non-conformist , who have confuted them more than we ? or , who have written more against them ? and in a letter of his , he expresseth the greatest detestation of them . now it grieved me not a little , at this time , saith he , that satan should be so impudent , as to fling the dung of that sect into my face , which , with all my power , i had so vehemently resisted , during the whole course of my ministery in england : i think no other , but that many of them love the lord , and fear his name ; howbeit their error being enemy to that breast of charity , wherewith cyprian covered his , qui ab ecclesiâ nunquam recessit , as augustin speaketh ; they cannot stand before his tribunal , but by the intercession of our blessed saviour . father forgive them for they know not what they do . think not these words are applyed to their sect amiss ; for , in effect , what doth it less than even persecute the lord jesus in his host , which it revileth ; in his ordinances , which it dishonoreth ; and in his servants last of all , whose graces it blasphemeth , whose footsteps it slandereth , and whose persons it despiseth . and two characters he gives of the men of that way , viz. that their spirits were bitter above measure , and their hearts puffed up with the leaven of pride . how far these characters still agree to the defenders of the present separation , i leave others to judge . when brown and harrison openly declared for separation , t. c. himself undertook to answer them , in a letter to harrison . his example was soon followed by others of his brethren , who wrote the admonition to the followers of brown , and the defence of that admonition . when barrow and greenwood published their four reasons for separation , three of which they took out of the admonition to the parliament , viz. vnlawful ministry , antichristian government , and false worship ; gifford , a non-conformist at maldon in essex , undertook to answer them in several treatises . and it is observable , that these non-conformists charge the brownists with making a vile , notorious , and damnable schism , because they withdrew from the communion of our churches , and set up new ones of their own . gifford not only calls them schismaticks , but saith , they make a vile schism , rending themselves from the church of england ; and condemning by their assertions , the whole visible church in the world , even as the donatists did of old time : and he adds , that the end of brownism , as it was then called , is infinite schismes , heresies , atheism and barbarism . and the same author , in his second book , reckoning up the ill effects of this separation among the people , hath these remarkable words . now look also on the people , where we may see very many , who not regarding the chief christian vertues , and godly duties , as namely , to be meek , to be patient , to be lowlie , to be full of love and mercy , to deal vprightly and iustly , to guide their families in the fear of god , with wholsome instructions , and to stand fast in the calling in which god hath set them , give themselves wholly to this , even as if it were the sum and pith of religion , namely , to argue and talk continually against matters in the church , against bishops and ministers , and one against another on both sides . some are proceeded to this , that they will come to the assemblies to hear the sermons and prayers of the preacher , but not to the prayers of the book , which i take to be a more grievous sin than many do suppose . but yet this is not the worst , for sundry are gone further , and fallen into a damnable schism ; and the same so much the more fearful and dangerous , in that many do not see the foulness of it , but rather hold them as godly christians , and but a little over-shot in these matters . but that this man went upon the principles of the non-conformists , appears , by his stating the question , in the same preface . for , i shewed , saith he , in express words , that i do not meddle at all in these questions , whether there be corruptions and faults in our church , condemned by gods word ; whether they be many or few ; whether they be small or great ; but only thus far , whether they be such , or so great , as make our churches antichristian . barrow saith , that this gifford was one that ioyned with the rest of the faction in the petition to the parliament against the english hierarchy : and it appears by several passages of his books that he was a non-conformist ; and he is joyned with cartwright , hildersham , brightman , and other non-conformists , by the prefacer to the desence of bradshaw against iohnson : and i find his name in one of the classes in essex at that time . the author of the second answer for communicating , who defends t. cs. letter to harrison , browns colleague against separation , proves ioyning with the church a duty necessarily enjoyned him of god by his providence , through his being and placing in a particular church , and justly required of him by the church , or spiritual body , through that same inforcing law of the coherence , and being together of the parts and members , which is the express ordinance of god. so that , saith he , unless i hold the congregation , whereof i am now , disanulled , and become no church of christ , for the not separating an unworthy member , i cannot voluntarily either absent my self from their assemblies to holy exercises , or yet depart away being come together , without breach of the bond of peace , sundring the cement of love , empairing the growth of the body of christ , and incurring the guilt of schism and division . to the same purpose he speaks elsewhere . richard bernard calls it , an vncharitable and lewd schism which they were guilty of . but i need not mention more particular a●thors , since in the grave confutation of the errors of the separatists , in the name of the non-conformists , it is said , that because we have a true church , con●●ting of a lawful ministery , and a faithful people , therefore they cannot separate themselves from us , but they must needs incur the most shameful and odious reproach of manifest schism . and concerning the state of the persons who lived in separation , they say , we hold them all to be in a dangerous estate , ( we are loth to say in a damnable estate ) as long as they continue in this schism . sect. . but , for our farther understanding the full state of this controversie , we must consider , what things were agreed on both sides , and where the main points of difference lay . . the separatists did yield the doctrine , or faith of the church of england true and sound , and a possibility of salvation in the communion of it . in their apology presented to king iames , thus they speak ; we testifie by these presents unto all men , and desire them to take knowledge hereof , that we have not forsaken any one point of the true ancient catholick and apostolick faith professed in our land ; but hold the same grounds of christian religion with them still . and the publisher of the dispute about separation , between iohnson and iacob , saith , that the first separatists never denied , that the doctrine and profession of the churches of england , was sufficient to make those that believed and obeyed them , to be true christians , and in the state of salvation , but always held , professed , and acknowledged the contrary . barrow saith , that they commended the faith of the english martyrs , and deemed them saved , notwithstanding the false offices , and great corruptions in the worship exercised : and in the letter to a lady a little before his death , he saith , he had reverend estimation of sundry , and good hope of many hundred thousands in england ; though he utterly disliked the present constitution of this church , in the present communion , ministry , worship , government , and ordinances ecclesiastical of these cathedral and parishional assemblies . . the separatists granted , that separation was not justifiable from a church , for all blemishes and corruptions in it . thus they express themselves in their apology , neither count we it lawful for any member to forsake the fellowship of the church , for blemishes and imperfections , which every one , according to his calling , should studiously seek to cure , and to expect and further it , until either there follow redress , or the disease be grown incurable . and in the article of the confession of their faith , written by iohnson and ainsworth , they have these words . none is to separate from a church rightly gathered and established , for faults and corruptions , which may , and so long as the church consisteth of mortal men , will fall out and arise among them , even in true constituted churches , but by due order to seek the redress thereof . but in the case of our church they pleaded , that the corruptions were so many and great , as to overthrow the very constitution of a church . so barrow saith , they do not cut off the members of our church from gods election , or from christ , but from being members of a true constituted church . on the other side , the non-conformists granted there were many and great corruptions in our church , but not such as did overthrow the constitution of it , or make separation from our parochial assemblies to be necessary , or lawful . so that the force of all their reasonings against separation lay in these two suppositions . . that nothing could justifie separation from our church , but such corruptions which overthrew the being , or constitution of it . . that the corruptions in our church were not such , as did overthrow the constitution of it . the making out of these two will tend very much to the clear stating of this present controversie . . that nothing could iustifie separation from our church , but such corruptions which overthrow the being or constitution of it . barrow and his brethren , did not think they could satisfie their consciences in separation , unless they proved our churches to be no true churches . for , here they assign the four causes of their separation to be ; want of a right gathering our churches at first ; false worship ; antichristian ministery and government : these reasons , say they , all men may see prove directly these parish assemblies not to be the true established churches of christ , to which any faithful christian may joyn himself in this estate ; especially , when all reformation unto the rules of christ's testament is not only denied , but resisted , blasphemed , persecuted . these are the words of the first , and chiefest separatists , who suffered death rather than they would foregoe these principles . we condemn not , say they , their assemblies , barely for a mixture of good and bad , which will alwayes be , but for want of an orderly gathering , or constitution at first : we condemn them not for some faults in the calling of the ministry , but for having and reteining a false antichristian ministry imposed upon them : we forsake not their assemblies for some faults in their government , or discipline , but for standing subject to a popish and antichristian government . neither refrain we their worship for some light imperfections , but because their worship is superstitious , devised by men idolatrous , according to that patched popish portuise their service-book ; according unto which their sacraments , and whole administration is performed , and not by the rules of christ's testament . so that these poor deluded creatures saw very well , that nothing but such a charge , which overthrew the very being and constitution of our churches ( the doctrine of faith being allowed to be sound ) could justifie their separation : not meer promiscuous congregations , nor mixt communions ; not defect in the exercise of discipline ; not some corruptions in the ministry or worship ; but such gross corruptions as took away the life and being of a church ; as they supposed idolatrous worship , and an antichristian ministry to do . if mr. giffard , saith barrow , can prove the parish assemblies in this estate true and established churches , then we would shew him how free we are from schism . the same four reasons are insisted on as the grounds of their separation in the brownists apology to king iames , by ainsworth , iohnson , and the rest of them . ainsworth frames his argument for separation thus . that church which is not the true church of christ and of god , ought not , by any true christian , to be continued , or communicated with ; but must be forsaken , and separated from ; and a true church sought , and ioyned unto , &c. but the church of england is before proved , not to be the true church of christ , and of god , therefore it ought to be separated from , &c. by which we see , the greatest separatists that were then , never thought it lawful to separate from our churches , if they were true . on the other side , those who opposed the separation , with greatest zeal , thought nothing more was necessary for them , to disprove the separation , then to prove our churches to be true churches . r. brown ( from whom the party received their denomination ) thought he had a great advantage against cartwright ( the ringleader of the non-conformists ) to prove the necessity of separation , because he seemed to make discipline essential to a church ; and therefore since he complained of the want of discipline here , he made our church not to be a true church , and consequently that separation was necessary . t. c. answers , that church assemblies are builded by faith only on christ the foundation , the which faith so being , whatsoever is wanting of that which is commanded , or remaining of that which is forbidden , is not able to put that assembly from the right and title of so being the church of christ. for that faith can admit no such thing , as giveth an utter overthrow , and turning upside down of the truth . his meaning is , wherever the true doctrine of faith is received and professed , there no defects or corruptions can overthrow the being of a true church , or iustifie separation from it . for , he addeth , although besides faith in the son of god , there be many things necessary for every assembly ; yet be they necessary to the comely and stable being , and not simply to the being of the church . and in this respect , saith he , the lutheran churches , ( which he there calls the dutch assemblies ) which beside the maym of discipline , which is common to our churches , are grossely deceived in the matter of the supper , are notwithstanding holden in the roll of the churches of god. was not jerusalem , saith he , after the return from babylon , the city of the great king , until such time as nehemias came and builded on the walls of the city ? to say therefore it is none of the church , because it hath not received this discipline , methinks is all one with this , as if a man would say , it is no city , because it hath no wall : or that it is no vineyard , because it hath neither hedge , nor ditch . it is not , i grant , so sightly a city , or vineyard , nor yet so safe against the invasion of their several enemies which lie in wait for them ; but yet they are truly both cities and vineyards . and whereas t. c. seemed to make discipline essential to the church , his defender saith , he did not take discipline there strictly for the political guiding of the church , with respect to censures , but as comprehending all the behaviour concerning a church in outward duties , i. e. the duties of pastor and people . afterwards , as often as the non-conformists set themselves to disprove the separation , their main business was , to prove our churches to be true churches . as in a book , entituled , certain positions h●ld and maintained by some godly ministers of the gospel , against those of the separation ; which was part of that book , afterwards published by w. r. and called , a grave and modest confutation of the separatists . the ground-work whereof , as mr. ainsworth calls it , is thus laid . that the church of england is a true church of christ , and such a one , as from which whosoever wittingly and continually separateth himself , cutteth himself off from christ. if this was the ground-work of the non-conformists in those days ; those who live in ours , ought well to consider it , if they regard their salvation . and , for this assertion of theirs , they bring three reasons . . for that they enjoy , and ioyn together in the vse of these outward means , which god in his word hath ordained for the gathering of an invisible church ; i. e. preaching of the gospel , and administration of the sacraments . . for that their whole church maketh profession of the true faith : and hold and teach , &c. all truths fundamental . so we put their two reasons into one , because they both relate to the profession of the truth faith ; which , say they , is that which giveth life and being to a visible church : and upon this profession we find many that have been incorporated into the visible church , and admitted to the priviledges thereof , even by the apostles themselves . so the church of pergamus , though it did tolerate gross corruptions in it : yet because it kept the faith of christ , was still called the church of god. . for that all the known churches in the world acknowledge that church for their sister , and give unto her the right hand of fellowship . when h. iacob undertook fr. iohnson upon this point of separation , the position he laid down was this , that the churches of england are the true churches of god. which he proved by this argument . whatsoever is sufficient to make a particular man a true christian , and in state of salvation ; that is sufficient to make a company of men , so gathered together , to be a true church . but the whole doctrine , as it is publickly professed , and practised , by law in england , is sufficient to make a particular man a true christian , and in state of salvation ; and our publick assemblies are therein gathered together . therefore it is sufficient to make the publick assemblies true churches . and in the defence of this argument , against the reasons and exceptions of iohnson , that whole disputation is spent . and , in latter times , the dispute between ball and can , about the necessity of separation , runs into this , whether our church be a true church or not ; concerning which , ball thus delivers his judgment . true doctrine , in the main grounds and articles of faith , though mix't with defects and errors in other matters , not concerning the life and soul of religion , and the right administration of sacraments for substance , though in the manner of dispensation , some things be not so well ordered , as they might and ought , are notes and markes of a true and sound church , though somewhat crased in health and soundness , by errors in doctrine , corruptions in the worship of god , and evils in life and manners . the second supposition which the non-conformists proceeded on , was , sect. . ( . ) that the corruptions in our church were not such as did overthrow the being and constitution of it . this will best appear , by the answers they gave to the main grounds of separation . i. that our church was not rightly gathered at the time of our reformation from popery . to which giffard thus answers , the church of england in the time of popery , was a member of the vniversal church , and had not the being of a church of christ from rome , nor took not her beginning of being a church , by separating her self from that romish synagogue ; but having her spirits revived , and her eyes opened , by the light of the heavenly word , did cast forth that tyranny of antichrist , with his abominable idolatry , heresies , and false worship ; and sought to bring all her children unto the right faith , and true service of god ; and so is a purer , and more faithful church than before . others add , that the laws of christian princes have been a means to bring men to the outward society of the church , and so to make a visible church : neither were sufficient means wanting , in our case , for the due conviction of mens minds ; but then they add , that the question must not be , whether the means used were the right means , for the calling and converting a people to the faith ; but , whether queen elizabeth took a lawful course for recalling , and re-uniting of her subjects unto those true professors , whose fellowship they had forsaken ; which they iustifie , by the examples of jehoshaphat , and josiah , asa , and hezekiah . ii. that we communicate together in a false and idolatrous worship of god , which is polluted with reading stinted prayers , using popish ceremonies , &c. to this they answer ; . that it is evident by the word , that the church hath used , and might lawfully use , in god's worship , and prayer , a stinted form of words : and that not only upon ordinary , but extraordinary occasions , which requires an extraordinary and special fervency of spirit . nay , they say , they are so far from thinking them unlawful , that in the ordinary and general occasions of the church , they are many times more fit , than those which are called conceived prayers . . if formes , thus devised by men , be lawful and profitable , what sin can it be for the governors of the church , to command , that such fo●ms be used ; or , for us , that are perswaded of the lawfulness of them , to use them ? unless they will say , that therefore it is unlawful for us to hear the word , receive the sacraments , believe the trinity , and all other articles of faith , because we are commanded by the magistrates so to do : whereas indeed , we ought the rather to do good things , that are agreeable unto the word , when we know them also to be commanded by the magistrate ▪ . it is true , the non-conformists say , the liturgy is in great part picked and culled out of the mass book ; but it followeth not thence , that either it is , or was esteemed by them a devised or false worship ; for many things contained in the mass-book it self are good and holy . a pearl may be found upon a dunghil ; we cannot more credit the man of sin , than to say , that every thing in the mass-book is devillish and antichristian , for then it would be antichristian to pray unto god in the mediation of jesus christ , to read the scriptures , to profess many fundamental truths necessary to salvation . our service might be picked and culled out of the mass-book , and yet be free from all fault and tincture , from all shew and apperance of evil ; though the mass-book it self was fraught with all manner of abominations — but if it be wholly taken out of the mass-book , how comes it to have those things which are so directly contrary to the mass , that both cannot possibly stand together ? yea , so many points , saith b●ll , are there taught directly contrary to the foundation of popery , that it is not possible popery should stand , if they take place . and , saith he , it is more proper to say , the mass was added to our common prayer , than that our common prayer was taken out of the mass book : for most things in our common prayer , were to be found in the liturgies of the church , long before the mass was heard of in the world. . as to the fasts , and feasts , and ceremonies retained , they answer , that what was antichristian in them , was the doctrine upon which those practices were built in the church of rome , which being taken away by the reformation , the things themselves are not antichristian . as namely , saith giffard , the remission of sins , and merit of eternal life by fasting ▪ which is the doctrine of the romish church ; the worship and invocation of saints and angels ; the power of expelling devils by the sign of the cross , and such like things , which the papacy is full of , but rejected by us . iii. that our ministery was antichristian . to this they answer . . that antichrist is described in scripture , not by his unlawful outward calling , or office , that he should exercise in the church ; but first by the false doctrine he should teach ; and secondly by the authority he should vsurp , to give laws to mens consciences , and to rule in the hearts of men as god. which two marks of antichrist , as they may evidently be discerned in the papacy , so admit all the outward callings and offices in the church of england exercised , were faulty , and unwarrantable by the word , yet you in your own conscience know , that these marks of antichrist cannot be found among the worst of our ministers . for neither do the laws of our church allow any to teach false doctrine ; and we all profess christ to be the only law-giver to conscience ; neither is any thing among us urged to be done , upon pain of damnation , but only the word and law of god. . that the office , which our laws call the office of priesthood , is the very same in substance with the pastors office described in the word ; and the manner of outward calling unto that office , which the law alloweth , is the very same in substance which is set down in the vvord . doth the vvord enjoyn the minister to teach diligently ? so , by our laws , he is expresly charged at his ordination to do , and forbidden to teach any thing , as required of necessity to salvation , but that which he is perswaded may be concluded and proved by the scripture : yea , it commandeth him , with all faithful diligence , to banish , and drive away all erroneous and strange doctrines , that are contrary to gods vvord . doth the vvord authorise him , to administer the sacraments ? so doth our law. doth the vvord require that the minister should not only publickly teach , but also oversee , and look to the peoples conversation , exhorting , admonishing , reproving , comforting them as well privately as publickly ? so doth our law. lastly , doth the vvord authorise the minister to execute the censures and discipline of christ ? our law doth also command the same . so that , although many , to whom the execution of these things appertain , do grievously fail in the practice thereof , yet you see the office which the law enjoyneth to the minister , is the same in substance , with that which the vvord layeth upon him . tell us not then , that the same name is given to our office , as to the popish sacrificers . do you think the worse of your self because you are called brownists ? and , shall the holy office and calling , which is so agreeable to the vvord , be misliked , because it is called a priesthood ? considering , that though it agree in name , yet it differeth in nature and su●stance as much from the romish priesthood , as light doth from darkness . iv. that discipline is wanting in our church . to which they answer . . that the want or neglect of some of those ordinances of christ , which concern the discipline of his church , and the outward calling of his ministers , is no such sin , as can make either the ministers , or governors of our church antichrist , or our church an antichristian and false church . and mr. h. adds , that no one place of scripture can be found , wherein he is called an antichrist , or antichristian , who holding the truth of doctrine , and professing those articles of religion that are fundamental , as we do , doth swerve , either in iudgment , or practice , from that rule , which christ hath given for the discipline of his church . neither can you find any antichrist mentioned in scripture , whose doctrine is sound . if then the doctrine of our church be sound , vvhat vvarrant have you to call us antichrists ? if our pastors offer to lead you unto salvation , through no other door than christ , how dare you , that say you are christ's , refuse to be guided by them ? if our assemblies be built upon that rock , how can you deny them to be true churches ? that the substance of discipline is preserved among us ; in which they reckon preaching of the vvord , and administration of sacraments , as well as the censures of admonition , suspension , excommunication , and provision for the necessity of the poor ; which , say they , by law , ought to be in all our assemblies ; and therefore we cannot justly be said to be without the discipline of christ ; but rather that we having the discipline of christ ; which is most substantial , do want the other , and so exercise it not rightly , that is to say , not by those officers which christ hath appointed . and farther they add , that the laws of our land do authorize the minister to stay from the lords table , all such as are vncat●chised , and out of charity , or any otherwise publick offenders ; as appeareth in the rubrick before the communion , and in that which is after confirmation . . that although it were granted , that we wanted both the exercise of the churches censures , and some of those officers which christ hath appointed to exercise them by , yet might we be a true church notwithstanding : as there was a true church in judah all the days of asa and jehosaphat , yet was not the discipline reformed there till the latter end of jehoshaphat's reign . the church of corinth was a true church , even when the apostle blamed them for want of discipline . the congregation at samaria is called a church , before the discipline was established there . and even in jerusalem there was a famous visible church of christ long before sundry parts of the discipline ( for want whereof they condemn us ) were established there ; yea , it is evident , that by the apostles themselves divers churches were gathered some good space of time , before the discipline was setled , or exercised : by all which it is manifest , that how necessary soever those parts of the discipline ( which we want ) be , to the beauty and well-being , or preservation of the church ; yet are they not necessary to the being thereof ; but a true church may be without them . . that it doth not belong to private persons to set up the discipline of the church against the will and consent of the christian magistrate , and governors of the church : nay , they declare , that in so doing , they should highly offend god. giffard saith , that the fetters and chains , can no faster bind the hands and feet of brownists , then the hands of private men are bound with the bands of conscience , and the fear of god , from presuming to take upon them publick authority . and if all the brownists in the land should come together , and choose a minister and ordain him , it would make him no more a minister before god , then if all the apprentices in london , taking upon them to choose a lord mayor , and minister an oath unto him , should make him a lord mayor . but of this more afterwards . v. that the ministers of our church stand under ( as they speak ) an antichristian hierarchy . to which they answer , first , they deny that our bishops can be called antichristian , since they do , and by the laws of the land ought to hold and teach all doctrines that are fundamental ; yea , some of them have learnedly and soundly maintained the truth against hereticks , that have gainsay'd it ; some have not only by their doctrine and ministry converted many to the truth , but have suffered persecution for the gospel . secondly , suppose it were an antichristian yoke , which they deny ; yet this doth not destroy the being of a true church , or mi●istry under it . since both the jewish and christian churches , have frequently born such a yoke , and yet have been the true churches of god still . thirdly . that there is nothing unlawful , or antichristian in the office of bishops , if they consider them as the kings visitors and commissioners , to see that the pastors do their duties . and that this cannot destroy the nature of a visible church , to cast many particular churches , under one provincial , or diocesan government . yea , mr. bradshaw undertakes to prove this , not only lawful , but expedient , to that degree , that he thinks the magistrate cannot well discharge his duty , as to the oversight and government of the churches within his dominions , without it : as is implyed in the seven quaeries he propounds to fr. iohnson about it . but supposing them to be pastors of the churches under them , this , saith he , doth not overthrow the office of pastors to particular congregations , so long as under them they perform the main and substantial duties of true pastors ; which all the ministers of our church-assemblies do , and by the laws cought to do . these particulars i have laid together with all possible brevity and clearness , from the authors of best reputation on both sides , that we might have a distinct view of the state of the controversie about separation , between the old non-conformists , and the separatists of that time . sect. . but before we come to our present times , we must consider the alteration that was made in the state of this controversie , by those who were called independents , and pretended to come off from the principles of brownism , or rigid separation . and here i shall give an account of the progress of the course of separation , or the steps by which it was carried on ; and how it came at last to settle in the congregational way ; and what the true state of the difference was , between the assembly of divines , and the dissenting brethren ; and how far the reasons , then used , will hold against the present separation . when those who were called brownists , for the f●eer exercise of their new church way , withdrew into the low-countreys , they immediately fell into strange factions and divisions among themselves . a. d. . robert brown , accompanied with harrison a school-master , and about or persons , went over to middleburgh , and there they chose harrison pastor ▪ and brown teacher . they had not been there three months , but upon the falling out between brown and harri●on , brown forsakes them , and returns for england , and subscribes , promising to the archbishop , to live obediently to his commands . concerning whom , harrison writes to a friend in london in these words : indeed the lord hath made a breach among us for our sins , which hath made us unworthy to bear his great and worthy cause . mr. brown hath cast us off , and that with open , manifest , and notable treacheries , and if i should declare them , you could not believe me . only this i testifie unto you , that i am well able to prove , that cain dealt not so ill with his brother abel , as he hath dealt with me . some of the words of browns subscription , were these , i do humbly submit my self to be at my lord of canterbury's commandment , whose authority , under her majesty , i w●ll never resist , or deprave , by the grace of god , &c. but , being a man of a restless , and factious temper , no promises , or subscriptions could keep him within due bounds ; as one who lived at that time hath fully discovered . for , although he promised to frequent our churches , and to come to prayers and sacraments , yet , living school-master at s. olaves in southwark for two years , in all that time he never did it ; and when he was like to have been question'd for it , he withdrew into another parish . sometimes he would go to hear sermons , but that he accounted no act of communion ; and declared to his friends , that he thought it not unlawful to hear our sermons ; and therefore perswaded his followers in london so to do . notwithstanding this , he preached in private meetings , and that in the time of publick assemblies , when he thought fit ; which this author , though a non-conformist , and friend of t. cs , calls a cursed conventicle : who sets forth at large his strange iuglings , and iesuitical aequivocations in his subscription . by the bishops authority , he said he meant only his civil authority ; by declaring the church of england to be the church of god , he understood the church of his own setting up ; by frequenting our assemblies according to law , he meant , the law of god , and not of the land : he declared , his child was baptized according to law , but then told his followers , it was done without his consent mr. cotton , of new england , hath this passage concerning brown. the first inventor of that way , which is called brownism , from whom the sect took its name , fell back from his own way , to take a parsonage called i●ourc● ; god so , in a strange ( yet wise ) providence , ordering it , that he , who had utterly renounced all the churches in england , as no church ; should afterwards accept of one parish church among them , and it called , a church . but upon the dissention at middleborough , between brown and harrison , that congregation soon broke to pieces . ainsworth cannot deny the early dissentions between brown and harrison , brown and barrow , barrow and fr. iohnson ; but he reckons up all the differences in scripture from cain and abel downwards to justifie theirs ; notwithstanding , as dr. o. well observes , we are to distinguish between what falls out through the passions of men , and what follows from the nature of the thing . but one of their own party at amsterdam takes notice of a third cause of these dissentions , viz. the iudgment of god upon them . i do see , saith he , the hand of god is heavy upon them , blinding their minds , and hardening their hearts , that they do not see his truth , so that they are at wars among themselves , and they are far from that true peace of god which followeth holiness . there were two great signs of this hand of god upon them . first , their invincible obstinacy . secondly , the scandalous breaches which followed still one upon the other , as long as the course of separation continued ; and were only sometimes hindred from shewing themselves , by their not being let loose upon each other ; for then the firebrands soon appear , which at other times they endeavour to cover . their great obstinacy appears , by the execution of barrow and greenwood , who being condemned for seditious books , could no ways be reclaimed ; rather choosing to dye , than to renounce the principles of separation . but penry , who suffered on the same account about that time , had more relenting in him , as to the business of separation . for mr. i. cotton , of new-england , relates this story of him , from the mouth of mr. hildersham , an eminent non-conformist ; that he confessed , he deserved death at the queens hand , for that he had seduced many of her loyal subjects to a separation , from hearing the word of life in the parish churches , which though himself had learned to discover the evil of , yet he could never prevail to recover divers of her subjects whom he had seduced ; and therefore the blood of their souls was now justly required at his hands . these are mr. cotton's own words . concerning barrow , he reports from mr. dod's mouth , that when he stood under the gibbet , he lift up his eyes , and said , lord , if i be deceived , thou hast deceived me . and so being stopt by the hand of god , he was not able to proceed to speak any thing to purpose more , either to the glory of god , or edification of the people . these executions extremely startled the party , and away goes francis iohnson with his company to amsterdam ; iohnson chargeth ainsworth and his party with anabaptism , and want of humility and due obedience to government . in short , they fell to pieces , separating from each others communion : some say , they formally excommunicated each other ; but mr. cotton will not allow that , but , he saith , they only withdrew : yet those who were members of the church do say , that mr. johnson and his company , were accursed , and avoided by mr. ainsworth and his company : and mr. a. and his company were rejected and avoided by mr. johnson and his . and one church received the persons excommunicated by the other , and so became ridiculous to spectators , as some of themselves confessed . iohnson and his party charged the other with schism in separating from them : but , as others said , who returned to our church ; is it a greater sin in them to leave the communion of mr. johnson , than for him to refuse and avoid the communion of all true churches beside ? but the difference went so high , that iohnson would admit none of ainsworth's company without re-baptizing them ; ainsworth , on the other side , charged them with woful apostasy : and one of his own company said , that he lived and died in contentions . when robinson went from leyden , on purpose to end these differences , he complained very much of the disorderly and tumultuous carriage of the people ; which , with mr. ainsworths maintenance , was an early discovery of the great excellency of popular church-governm●nt . smith , who set up another separate congregation , was iohnson's pupil , and went over , in hopes , saith mr. cotton , to have gained his tutor from the errors of his rigid separation ; but he was so far from that , that he soon outwent him : and he charges the other separate congregations with some of the very same faults which they had found in the church of england , viz. ( . ) idolatrous worship ; for if they charged the church of england with idolatry , in reading of prayers ; he thought them equ●lly guilty in looking on their bibles , in preaching and singing . ( . ) antichristian government , in adding the human inventions of doctors , and ruling elders : which was pulling down one antichrist , to set up another ; and if one was the beast , the other was the image of the beast . being therefore unsatisfied with all churches , he began one wholly new , and therefore baptized himself . for , he declared , there was no one true ordinance with the other separatists . but this new church was of short continuance , for , upon his death , it dwindled away , or was swallowed up in the common gulf of anabaptism . and now one would have thought here had been an end of separation ; and so in all probability there had ; had not mr. robinson of leyden abated much of the rigor of it ; for he asserted , the lawfulness of communicating with the church of england in the word and prayer , but not in sacraments and discipline . the former he defended in a discourse between ainsworth and him . so that the present separatists , who deny that , are gone beyond him , and are fallen back to the principles of the rigid separation . robinson succeeded ( though not immediately ) iacob , in his congregation at leyden , whom some make the father of independency . but from part of mr. robinson's church , it spread into new england ; for mr. cotton saith , they went over thither in their church-state to plymouth ; and that model was followed by other churches there ; at salem , boston , watertown , &c. yet mr. cotton professeth , that robinson 's denyal of the parishional churches in england to be true churches ( either by reason of their mixt corrupt matter , or for defect in their covenant , or for excess in their episcopal government ) was never received into any heart , from thence to infer a nullity of their church state. and in his answer to mr. roger williams , he hath these words , that upon due consideration he cannot find , that the principles and grounds of reform●tion do necessarily conclude a separation from the english churches , as false churches ; from their ministery as a false ministry ; from their worship as a false worship ; from all their professors as no visible saints : nor can i find , that they do either necessarily , or probably conclude a separation from hearing the word preached by godly ministers in the parish churches in england . mr. r. williams urged mr. cotton with an apparent inconsistency between these principles and his own practice ; for although he pretended to own the parish churches as true churches , yet by his actual separation from them , he shewed , that really he did not ; and he adds , that separation did naturally follow from the old puritan principles ; saying , that mr. can hath unanswerably proved , that the grounds and principles of the puritans against bishops and ceremonies , and profaneness of people professing christ , and the necessity of christ ' s flock and disciples , must necessarily , if truly followed , lead on to , and inforce a separation . notwithstanding all this , mr. cotton doth assert the lawfulness of hearing english preachers in our parish churches ; but then , he saith , there is no church communion in hearing , but only in giving the seals . mr. williams urgeth , that there is communion in doctrine , and fellowship of the gospel . upon which , mr. cotton grants , that though a man may joyn in hearing , and prayer , before and after sermon ; yet not as in a church-state . yet , after all , he will not deny our churches to be true churches . but , if they remain true churches , it appears from the former discourse , they can never justifie separation from them ; upon the principles of either party . so that though those of the congregational way seem to be more moderate , as to some of their principles , then the old rigid separatists ; yet they do not consider , that by this means they make their separation more inexcusable . the dissenting brethren , in their apologetical narration , to avoid the imputation of brownism , deliver this as their judgment , concerning our parochial churches . and for our own congregations , viz. of england , we have this sincere profession to make before god and all the world , that all that conscience of the defilements , we conceived to cleave to the true worship of god in them , or of the vnwarranted power in church governors exercised therein , did never work in us any other thought , much less opinion , but that multitudes of the assemblies , and parochial congregations thereof , were the true churches and body of christ , and the ministery thereof a true ministery : much less did it ever enter into our hearts , to iudge them antichristian ; we saw , and cannot but see , that by the same reason , the churches abroad in scotland , holland , &c. ( though more reformed ) yet for their mixture , must be in like manner iudged no churches also ; which , to imagine , or conceive , is , and hath ever been an horror to our thoughts . yea , we have always professed , and that in those times when the churches of england were the most , either actually overspread with defilements , or in the greatest danger thereof ; and when our selves had least , yea no hopes of ever so much as visiting our own land again in peace and safety to our persons , that we both did and would hold communion with them as the church of christ. this is a very fair confession from the dissenting brethren ; but then the difficulty returns with greater force ; how comes separation from these churches to be lawful ? if they had gone upon the brownists principles , all the dispute had been about the truth or falshood of them ; but their truth being supposed , the necessity of separation followed ; whereas now , upon altering the state of the controversie by the independents , though their principles seem more moderate , yet their practice is more unreasonable . it is therefore a vain pretence used at this day , to justifie the separation , that they do not deny our churches to be true churches , and that therein they differ from the old separatists ; it is true ▪ in that opinion they do ; but in separation they agree , which is the more unjustifiable in them , since they yield so much to our churches . and yet herein , whatever they pre●end , they do not exceed their independent brethren , whose separation themselves condemned . but the presbyterians were then unsatisfied with this declaration of the dissenting brethren , and thought , it did not sufficiently clear them from the charge of brownism ; because ( . ) they agreed with the old separatists in the main principle of popular church government , which , they say , is inconsistent with the civil peace ; as may be seen , say they , in the quarrels both at amsterdam , and rotterdam ; and the law-suites depending before the magistrates there . ( . ) they overthrow the bounds of parochial churches , as the separatists did , and think such a confinement unlawful . ( . ) they make true saintship the necessary qualification of church members , as the separatists did : whereby , say they , they confound the visible , and invisible church , and make the same essential form of both . ( . ) they renounce the ordination received in our church , but all the allowance they make of a true ministry , is , by vertue of an explicit or implicit call , grounded on the peoples explicit or implicit covenant , with such a man as their pastor . for when they first began to set up a congregational church , after the new model , at rotterdam , ward was chosen pastor , and bridges teacher , but they both renounced their ordination in england ; and some say , they ordained one another ; others , that they had no other ordination , than what the congregation gave them . sect. . and now , new congregations began to be set up in holland , upon these principles ; but they again fell into divisions as great as the former . simpson renouncing his ordination , was admitted a private member of the church at rotterdam ; but he grew soon unsatisfied with the orders of that church , and thought too great a restraint was laid upon the private members , as to the exercise of prophecying ; and so he , and those who joyned with him , complaining of the mischief of impositions , were ready for a separation , if that restraint were not speedily removed . mr. bridge yields to the thing , but not as to the time , viz. on the lords day after sermon ; this gives no satisfaction , for they must have their will in every thing , or else they will never cease complaining of the mischief of impositions . and so mr. simpson , and his party , set up a new church of their own : which i. goodwin doth not deny ; for mr. simpson , saith he , upon dislike of some persons and things in that church , whereof mr. bridge was pastor , might seek and make a departure from it . but were these churches quiet , after this separation made ? so far from it , that the contentions and slanders were no less grievous , saith baylie , than those of amsterdam , betwixt ainsworth and johnsons followers ▪ but did not mr. bridges church continue in great quietness ? no , but in stead of that , they were so full of bitterness , reproaches , and hard censures , that mr. br●dge often declared , if he had known at first , what he met with afterwards , he would never have come amongst them , nor being amongst them , have given them such scope and liberty , as he had . it seems at last , he came to apprehend the necessity of impositions , and the mischief of a separating dividing humor . but the people having the power in their hands , were resolved to shew , that they held it not in vain ; for mr. ward , had it seems given offence to some of the congregation , by preaching the same sermons there , which he had preached before at norwich ; this , and some other frivolous things , were thought intolerable impositions ; and therefore against the will of mr. bridge , they depose mr. ward from his ministery . this being a fresh discovery of the great inconveniency of popular church government , gave a mighty alarm to the brethren : which occasion'd a meeting of the messengers from other churches ( as they called them ) for closing up of this wound ; but they durst not search deep into it , but only skinn'd it over , to prevent the great reproach and scandal of it . from these things , the presbyterians inferred the necessity of civil authorities interposing ; and of not leaving all to conscience . for , say they , conscience hath been long urging the taking away that scandal occasion'd at rotterdam by that schism , where divers members left the one church , and joyned to the other , so disorderly , wherein even the rulers of one church had a deep charge ; yet as that could not then be prevented , so there had been many meetings , sermons , and all means used to press the conscience of taking it off , by a re-union of the churches , and yet the way to do it could never be found , till the magistrates authority and command found it . these things i have more fully deduced ; not , as though bare dissentions in a church were an argument of it self against it ; but , to shew ( . ) that popular church government naturally leads to divisions , and leaves them without remedy ; and ( . ) that humerous and factious people will always complain of the mischief of impositions , though the things be never so just and reasonable ; and ( . ) that this principle of liberty of conscience , will unavoidably lead men into confusion : for when men once break the rules of order and government in a church , they run down the hill , and tumble down all before them . if men complain of the mischief of our impositions , the members of their own churches , may on the same grounds , complain of theirs ; and as the presbyterians cannot answer the independents , as to the pretence of conscience ; so it is impossible for either , or both of them , to answer the anabaptists , who have as just a plea for separation from them , as they can have from the church of england . sect. . from hence we find , that , although the pretence of the dissenting brethren seemed very modest , as to themselves ; yet they going upon a common principle of liberty of conscience , the presbyterians charged them with being the occasion of that horrible inundation of errors and schisms , which immediately overspread this city and nation : which i shall briefly represent in the words of the most ●●inent presbyterians of that time . thence 〈…〉 , a zealous scotch presbyterian , said , that he verily believed , independency cannot but prove the root of all schisms and heresies : yea , i add , saith he , that by consequence , it is much worse than pop●ry . then●e the scotch commissioners , in the first place , pres●ed vniformity in religion , as the only means to preserve peace , and to prevent many divisions and troubles ; a thing very becoming the king to promote , according to the practice of the good kings of judah ; and a thing which , they say , all sound divines and politicians are for . dr. corn. burgess told the house of commons , that our church was laid waste , and exposed to confusion , under the plausible pretence of not forcing mens consciences : and that , to put all men into a course of order and vniformity , in god's way , is not to force the conscience ; but to set up god in his due place , and to bring all his people into the paths of righteousness and life . the errors and innovations , under which we groaned so much of later years , saith mr. case , were but tolerabiles ineptiae , tolerable trifles , childrens play , compared with these damnable doctrines , doctrines of devils , as the apostle calls them : polygamy , arbitrary divorce , mortality of the soul ; no ministry , no churches , no ordinances , no scripture , &c. and the very foundation of all these laid in such a schism of boundless liberty of conscience , and such lawless separation of churches , &c. the famous city of london is become an amsterdam , saith mr. calamy , separation from our churches is countenanced , toleration is cried vp , authority asleep . it would seem a wonder , if i should reckon how many separate congregations , or rather segregations there are in the city ; what churches against churches , &c. hereby the hearts of the people are mightily distracted , many are hindred from conversion , and even the godly themselves have lost much of the power of godliness in their lives . the lord keep us , saith he , from being poysoned with such an error as that of an vnlimited toleration . a doctrine that overthroweth all church-government , bringeth in confusion , and openeth a wide door unto all irreligion and atheism . diversity of religion , saith mr. matthew newcomen , disjoynts and distracts the minds of men , and is the seminary of perpetual hatreds , iealousies , seditions , wars , if any thing in the world be ; and in a little time , either a schism in the state begets a schim in the church , or a schism in the church begets a schism in the state : i. e. either religion in the church is prejudiced by civil contentions , or church-controversies and disputes about opinions break out into civil wars . men will at last take up swords and spears in stead of pens ; and defend that by arms which they cannot do by arguments . these may serve for a taste of the sense of some of the most eminent presbyterian divines at that time , concerning the dangerous effects of that toleration which their independent brethren desired . the dissenting brethren finding themselves thus loaden with so many reproaches , and particularly with being the occasion of so many errors and schisms , published their apologetical narration in vindication of themselves , wherein ( as is said before ) they endeavour to purge themselves from the imputation of brownism ; declaring , that they looked on some of our churches as true churches , and our ministery , as a true ministery ; but yet they earnestly desire liberty , as to the peaceable practice of their own way . to this the presbyterians answered , first , that they did not understand by them , in what sense they allowed our churches to be true churches . secondly , if they did , what necessity there was for any separation , or what need of toleration . as to the sense in which they owned our churches to be true churches ; either they understood it of a bare metaphysical verity , as many of our divines , say they , grant it to the romish church ; that she is a true church , as a rotten infections strumpet is a true woman ; and then they thank them for their favour , that they hold our churches in the same category with rome : or else they understand it in a moral sense for sound and pure churches , and then , say they , why do ye not joyn with us , and communicate as brethren ? why desire ye a toleration ? yes , say the dissenting brethren , we own you to be true churches , and communicate with you in doctrine . to which the others reply'd , if you own it by external act of communion , ye must communicate with us in sacraments : but this ye refuse ; therefore ye must return to the old principles of separation . for where there was such a refusal of communion , as there was in them towards all churches besides their own , there must lie at the bottom the same principle of separation which was in the brownists . and , as mr. newcomen urged them , their agreeing with us in doctrines that are fundamental , their holding one head , and one faith , doth not excuse them from being guilty of breach of vnity , and downright schism , as long as they hold not one body , one baptism . for when men make different assemblies , and congregations , and draw men into parties , it is not their owning the same doctrine doth excuse them from schism , as he proves from st. augustin and beza . of which afterwards . but still they denied themselves to be brownists , or rigid separatists , because they separated from our congregations as no churches , and from the ordinances dispensed as antichristian , and from our people as no visible christians . to which the other replyed , that there was always a difference among the separatists themselves , some being more rigid than others ; and as to the last clause , none since barrow had owned it . but , for the rest , only putting vnlawful for antichristian ; and by ordinances , understanding church-ordinances , they own the very same principles as the others did . and although in words they seem to own our parochial congregations to be true churches ; yet having the same opinions with the more moderate brownists , touching church-constitution , matter , form , power , government , communion , corruptions , &c. the consequence must be , say they , that we have no true churches , and that our ordinances are all unlawful . and the less cause they have to plead for their separation , by acknowledging our churches to be true churches , their separation is so much the more culpable , and the grosser and more inexcusable the schism . for , it is a greater sin , saith bayly , to depart from a church , which i profess to be true , and whose ministry i acknowledge to be saving , than from a church which i conceive to be false , and whose ministers i take to have no calling from god ; nor any blessing from his hand . so that the independents were then charged with schism for these two things . first , for refusing communion with those churches , which they confessed to be true churches . for , say the members of the assembly , thus to depart from true churches , is not to hold communion with them as such , but rather by departing , to declare them not to be such . secondly , for setting up different congregations , where they confessed there was an agreement in doctrine . sect. . but because some men are so unwilling to understand the true state of this controversie about separation , between the divines of the assembly , and the independents , i shall here give a fuller account of it from the debates between them . the desire of the independents , as it was proposed by themselves at the committee for accommodation , dec. . . was this , that they may not be forced to communicate as members in those parishes where they dwell ; but may have liberty to have congregations of such persons who give good testimonies of their godliness , and yet out of tenderness of conscience , cannot communicate in their parishes , but do voluntarily offer themselves to joyn in such congregations . to which the divines of the assembly answered , decemb. . this desire is not to be granted them , for these reasons . . because it holds out a plain and total separation from the rule ; as if in nothing it were to be complied with ; nor our churches to be communicated with in any thing , which should argue church-communion . more could not be said , or done , against false churches . . it plainly holds out , the lawfulness of gathering churches out of true churches , yea out of such true churches , which are endeavouring farther to reform according to the word of god ; whereof we are assured , there is not the least hint of any example in all the book of god. . this would give countenance to a perpetual schism and division in the church , still drawing away some from the churches under the rule , which also would breed many irritations among the parties going away , and those whom they leave ; and again , between the church that should be forsaken , and that to which they should go . decemb. . the dissenting brethren put in their reply to these reasons . to the first reason , they say , ( . ) that gathering into other congregations such , who cannot , out of tenderness of conscience , partake as members in their churches , for the purer enjoyment ( as to their consciences ) of all ordinances yet still maintaining communion with them as churches , is far from separation , much less a plain and total separation . and this is not setting up churches against churches , but neighbour sister churches of a different iudgment . for , say they , if the purest churches in the world ( unto our iudgment , in all other respects ) should impose as a condition of receiving the sacrament of the lords supper , any one thing ; that such tender consciences cannot joyn in ( as suppose kneeling in the act of receiving , which was the case of scotland and england ) if they remove from these churches , and have liberty from a state to gather into other churches , to enjoy this and other ordinances , this is no separation . ( . ) that it is not a plain and total separation from the rule , unless they wholly in all things differ , by setting up altogether different rules of constitution , worship and government ; but they shall practice the most of the same things ; and these the most substantial , which are found in the rule it self . ( . ) that they would maintain occasional communion with their churches , not only in hearing and preaching , but occasionally , in baptising their children in their churches , and receiving the lords supper there , &c. and , would not all this clear them from the imputation of schism ? not agreeing in the main things ? not owning their churches to be true ? not maintaining occasional communion with them ? let us hear , what the divines of the assembly think of all this . thus they answer , first , that although tenderness of conscience may bind men to forbear , or suspend the act of communion in that particular , wherein men conceive they cannot hold communion without sin , yet it doth not bind to follow such a positive prescript , as possibly may be divers from the will and counsel of god , of which kind we conceive this of gathering separate churches out of true churches , to be one . secondly , it is one thing to remove to a congregation which is under the same rule , another to a congregation of a different constitution from the rule ; in the former case a man retains his membership ; in the latter he renounceth his membership upon difference of judgment , touching the very constitution of the churches , from and unto which he removes . thirdly , if a church do require that which is evil of any member , he must forbear to do it , yet without separation . they who thought kneeling in the act of communion , to be unlawful , either in england , or scotland , did not separate , or renounce membership , but did , some of them , with zeal and learning , defend our church against those of the separation . fourthly , the notion of separation is not to be measured by civil acts of state , but by the word of god. fifthly , to leave all ordinary communion in any church with dislike , when opposition or offence offers it self , is to separate from such a church in the scripture sense . sixthly , a total difference from churches is not necessary to make a total separation ; for the most rigid separatists hold the same rule of worship , and government with our brethren ; and under this pretence , novatians , donatists , all that ever were thought to separate , might shelter themselves . seventhly , if they may occasionally exercise these acts of communion with us once , a second , or third time , without sin , we know no reason why it may not be ordinary without sin ; and then separation and church-gathering would have been needless . to separate from those churches ordinarily and visibly , with whom occasionally you may joyn without sin , seemeth to be a most unjust separation . to the second reason , the dissenting brethren gave these answers . . that it was founded upon this supposition , that nothing is to be tolerated which is unlawful in the iudgment of those who are to tolerate : which the divines of the assembly denied ; and said , it was upon the supposition of the unlawfulness , to tolerate gathering of churches out of true churches : which they do not once endeavor to prove lawful . . that if after all endeavors , mens consciences are unsatisfied , as to communion with a church , they have no obligation lying upon them to continue in that communion ; or on the churches to withold them from removing to purer churches ; or if there be none such to gather into churches . to which the divines of the assembly replied . i. that this opened a gap for all sects to challenge such a liberty as their due . ii. this liberty was denied by the churches of new-england ; and they have as just ground to deny it as they . to the third reason they answered . first , that the abuse of the word schism hath done much hurt in the churches ; that the signification of it was not yet agreed upon by the state , nor debated by the assembly . to which the others reply ; that if the word schism had been left out , the reason would have remained strong , viz. that this would , give countenance to perpetual division in the church , still drawing away churches from under the rule . and to give countenance to an unjust , and causless separation from lawful church communion , is not far from giving countenance to a schism ; especially when the grounds , upon which this separation is desired , are such , upon which all other possible scruples , which erring consciences may , in any other case , be subject unto , may claim the priviledge of a like indulgence , and so this toleration being the first , shall indeed but lay the foundation , and open the gap , whereat as many divisions in the church , as there may be scruples in the minds of men , shall , upon the self-same equity be let in . secondly , this will give countenance only to godly peoples joyning in other congregations for their greater edification , who cannot otherwise , without sin , enjoy all the ordinances of christ ; yet so , as not condemning those churches , they joyn not with , as false ; but still preserving all christian communion with the saints , as members of the body of christ , of the church catholick ; and joyn also with them in all duties of worship , which belong to particular churches , so far as they are able ; and if this be called schism , or countenance of schism , it is more then we have yet learned from scriptures , or any approved authors . to this , the divines of the assembly replyed . . this desired forbearance is a perpetual division in the church , and a perpetual drawing away from the churches under the rule . for , upon the same pretence , those who scruple infant-baptism , may withdraw from their churches , and so separate into another congregation ; and so in that some practice may be scrupled , and they separate again : are these divisions , and sub-divisions , say they , as lawful as they may be infinite ? or , must we give that respect to the errors of mens consciences , as to satisfie their scruples , by allowance of this liberty to them ? and , doth it not plainly signifie , that errors of conscience is a protection against schism ? . the not condemning of our churches as false , doth little extenuate the separation : for , divers of the brownists , who have totally separated in former times , have not condemned these churches as false ; though they do not pronounce an affirmative judgment against us , yet the very separating is a tacit and practical condemning of our churches , if not as false , yet as impure , eousque as that in such administrations , they cannot be by them , as members , communicated with , without sin . and when they speak of communion with us , as members of the church catholick , it is as full a declining of communion with us as churches , as if we were false churches . . we do not think differences in judgment in this , or that point , to be schism , or that every inconformity unto every thing used or enjoyned is schism , so that communion be preserved ; or that separation from idolatrous communion , or worship , ex se unlawful , is schism : but to joyn in separate congregations of another communion , which succession of our members is a manifest rupture of our societies into others , and is therefore a schism in the body : and if the apostle do call those divisions of the church , wherein christians did not separate into divers formed congregations , of several communion in the sacrament of the lords supper schismes , much more may such separation as this desired , be so called . . scruple of conscience is no cause of separating , nor doth it take off causeless separation from being schism , which may arise from errors of conscience , as well as carnal and corrupt reasons ; therefore we conceive the causes of separation must be shewn to be such exnaturâ rei , will bear it out ; and therefore we say , that the granting the liberty desired will give countenance to schism . . we cannot but take it for granted upon evidence of reason , and experience of all ages , that this separation will be the mother and nurse of contentions , strifes , envyings , confusions , and so draw with it that breach of love , which may endanger the heightning of it into formal schism , even in the sence of our brethen . . what is it that approved authors do call schism , but the breaking off members from their churches , which are lawfully constituted churches , and from communion in ordinances , &c. without just and sufficient cause , ex natura rei , to justifie such secession , and to joyn in other congregations of separate communion , either because of personal failings in the officers , or members of the congregation from which they separate , or because of causeless scruple of their own conscience , which hath been called setting up altare contra altare : from which they quote st. augustin , and camenon . thus i have faithfully laid down the state of this controversie about separation , as it hath been managed in former times among us . from whence there are these things to be considered by us , which may be of some use in our following discourse . ( . ) that all the old non-conformists did think themselves bound in conscience to communicate with the church of england , and did look upon separation from it to be sin , notwithstanding the corruptions they supposed to be in it . this i have proved with so great evidence in the forgoing discourse ; that those who deny it , may , with the help of the same metaphysicks , deny , that the sun shines . ( . ) that all men were bound in conscience towards preserving the vnion of the church , to go as far as they were able . this was not only asserted by the non-formists , but by the most rigid separatists of former times , and by the dissenting brethren themselves . so that the lawfulness of separation , where communion is lawful , and thought so to be by the persons who separate , is one of the newest inventions of this age ; but what new reasons they have for it , besides noise and clamour , i am yet to seek . ( . ) that bare scruple of conscience doth not justifie separation , although it may excuse non-communion in the particulars which are scrupled ; provided that they have used the best means for a right information . ( . ) that where occasional communion is lawful , constant communion is a duty . which follows from the divines of the assembly blaming the dissenting brethren for allowing the lawfulness of occasional communion with our churches , and yet forbearing ordinary communion with them . for , say they , to separate from those churches ordinarily and visibly , with whom occasionally you may joyn , seemeth to be a most unjust separation . ( . ) that withdrawing from the communion of a true church , and setting up congregations for purer worship , or under another rule , is plain and downright separation ; as is most evident from the answer of the divines of the assembly to the dissenting brethren . sect. . from all this it appears , that the present practice of separation can never be justified , by the old non-conformists principles ; nor by the doctrine of the assembly of divines . the former is clear from undeniable evidence , and the latter is in effect confessed by all my adversaries . for , although they endeavour all they can , to blind the readers judgment , with finding out the disparity of some circumstances , which was never denied ; yet not one of them can deny , that it was their judgment , that the holding of separate congregations for worship , where there was an agreement in doctrine , and the substantials of religion , was vnlawful , and schismatical . and this was the point , for which i produced their testimony in my sermon : and it still stands good against them . for their resolution of the case , doth not depend upon the particular circumstances of that time , but upon general reasons drawn from the obligations to preserve vnity in churches ; which must have equal force at all times , although there happen a great variety , as to some circumstances . for whether the greater purity of worship be pleaded , as to one circumstance , or another , the general case , as to separation , is the same : whether the scruples do relate to some ceremonies required , or to other impositions as to order and discipline ; if they be such as they pretend to , a necessity of separation on their account ; it comes at last to the same point . was it unlawful to desire a liberty of separate congregations , as the dissenting brethren did , because of some scruples of conscience in them ? and is it not equally unlawful in others , who have no more but scruples of conscience to plead , although they relate to different things ? i will put this case as plain as possible , to prevent all subterfuges and slight evasions . suppose five dissenting brethren now , should plead the necessity of having separate congregations , on the account of very different scruples of conscience ; one of them pleads , that his company scruple the use of an imposed liturgy : another saith , his people do not scruple that , but they cannot bear the sign of the cross , or kneeling at the communion ; a third saith , if all these were away , yet if their church be not rightly gather'd and constituted , as to matter and form , they must have a congregation of their own ; a fourth goes yet farther , and saith , let their congregation be constituted how it will , if they allow infant-baptism , they can never joyn with them ; nor , saith a fifth , can we , as long as you allow preaching by set forms , and your ministers stint themselves by hour-glasses , and such like human inventions : here are now very different scruples of conscience ; but , doth the nature of the case vary , according to the bare difference of the scruples ? one congregation scruples any kind of order as an unreasonable imposition and restraint of the spirit , is separation on that account lawful ? no , say all other parties against the quakers ; because their scruples are unreasonable . but is it lawful for a congregation to separate on the account of infant-baptism ? no , say the presbyterians and independents , that is an unreasonable scruple . is it lawful for men to separate to have greater purity in the frame and order of churches , although they may occasionally joyn in the duties of worship ? no , saith the presbyterians , this makes way for all manner of schism's and divisions , if meer scruple of conscience be a sufficient ground for separation : and if they can joyn occasionally with us , they are bound to do it constantly ; or else the obligation to peace and unity in the church signifies little : no man's erroneous conscience can excuse him from schism . if they alledge grounds to justifie themselves , they must be such as can do it ex naturâ rei , and not from the meer error or mistake of conscience . but , at last , the presbyterians themselves come to be required to joyn with their companies in communion with the church of england , and if they do not , either they must desire a separate congregation , on the account of their scruples , as to the ceremonies , and then the former arguments unavoidably return upon them . ( for the church of england hath as much occasion to account those scruples vnreasonable , as they do those of the independents , anabaptists , and quakers , ) or else they declare , they can joyn occasionally in communion with our church , but yet hold it lawful to have separate congregations for greater purity of worship ; and then the obligation to peace and vnity ought to have as much force on them , with respect to our church , as ever they thought it ought to have on the dissenting brethren , with respect to themselves . for no disparity , as to other circumstances , can alter the nature of this case ; viz. that as far as men judge communion lawfull , it becomes a duty , and separation a sin ; under what denomination soever the persons pass . for the fault doth not lie in the circumstances , but in the nature of the act ; because then separation appears most unreasonable , when occasional communion is confessed to be lawful . as will fully appear by the following discourse . those men therefore speak most agreeably to their present practice , although least for the honor of the assembly , who confess , that they were transported with undue heats , and animosities against their brethren ; which deserve to be lamented , and not to be imitated ; that they are not obliged to vindicate all they said , nor to be concluded by their determinations : that it is to be hoped , the party is become wiser since . this is plain dealing , and giving up the cause to the dissenting brethren ; and that in a matter wherein they happened to have the strongest reason of their side . but hereby we see , that those who justifie the present separation have forsaken the principles and practices of the old non-conformists ; as to this point of separation . sect. . it remains now , that i shew how far they are likewise gone off from the peaceable principles of their predecessors , as to private persons undertaking to reform the discipline of the church , and setting up new churches , against the consent of the magistrate , in a reformed church : and particularly , as to the preaching of their ministers , when silenced by our law 's this i am the more obliged to do , because when i said , that i was certain , that preaching in opposition to our established laws , is contrary to the doctrine of all the non-conformists of former times , mr. b. is pleased to say , that my assertion is so rash and false , in matters of notorious fact , that it weakeneth his reverence of my iudgment , in matters of right . i should desire no better terms from mr. b. as to the matter of right in this present controversie , than that he would be determin'd by the plain evidence of the fact ; and if what i said be true , and notoriously true , i shall leave him to consider on whose side the rashness lies . giffard makes this one principal part of brownism , that churches are to be set up , and discipline reformed , without the consent of the christian magistrate : brown maketh many arguments , saith he , to prove , that princes are not to be stayed for , nor yet to have to do , by publick power , to establish religion . which opinion of his , is such abridging the sacred power of princes , and such horrib● injury to the church , contrary to the manifest word of god , that if there were nothing else , it is enough to make him an odious and detestable heretick , untill he shew repentance . but to clear this matter , he distinguishes , ( . ) of princes that are enemies to christianity ; as they were in the time of the apostles ; to what end , saith he , should they , having authority from christ , to establish discipline , sue unto the courts of such princes , or attend their pleasure . ( . ) of such who profess christianity , but are idolaters . in this case , he saith , they are neither ●ound to forbear preaching , nor setting up discipline if they do oppose it . ( . ) of such princes , who own the true doctrine of christianity , but the churches in their dominions are corrupt in discipline . in this case he determines , that though every man is to take care to keep a good conscience , yet no private persons are to break the vnity and peace of the faithful , or to take upon them publick authority to reform : which he there proves , and concludes it to be a wicked and dangerous principle in the brownists to hold the contrary . in answer to this , barrow saith , that the servants of god ought not to be stayed from doing the commandments of god , upon any restraint , or persecution of any mortal man whatsoever ; and for this he quotes the example of the apostles , who then had been guilty of the same disobedience and rebellion , if princes had been to be stayed for , or their restraint been a sufficient let : and adds , that they only , according to gods commandment , refrained from their idolatry , and other publick evils , and assembled together in all holy and peaceable manner , to worship the lord our god , and to joyn our selves together in the faith , unto mutual duties , and to seek that government which christ left to his church , and for the church to erect the same . to the instance of the apostles , giffard had answered , that they were furnished with an extraordinary authority and commission by christ , to set up his kingdom : but ye have no commission from god , it is the devil that hath set you forward ; and will ye , in such vile and wretched manner , pretend the examples of the primitive churches ? barrow replies , if the commandment of god were sufficient warrant to the apostles to do their work , though all the princes of the world resisted ; then must the commandment of the same god , be of the same effect to all other instruments , whom it pleaseth the lord to use in their callings to his service also , though all the princes in the world should withstand , and forbid the same . by this we see , this was a great point in controversie between the brownists and non-conformists . which will more appear by the dispute between fr. iohnson and iacob . for among the points of false doctrine which he charges the non-conformists with , whom they called the forward preachers ; these are two . . that the planting , or reforming of christ's church must tarry for the civil magistrate , and may not otherwise be brought in by the word and spirit of god in the mouths of his weakest servants , except they have authority from earthly princes ; which doctrine , saith he , is against the kingly power of christ , and three whole lines of scripture , which he there puts together . . that it is lawful for a minister of christ to cease preaching , and to forsake his flock , at the commandment of a lord bishop : which doctrine , he saith , is contrary to two lines of scripture more , with the bare numbers of chapter and verse . but , lest it should be supposed , that these two were among those which iacob saith , he falsly laid to their charge ; we find both these doctrines owned by the several non-conformists , who joyned together in a confutation of the brownists . for , say they , as to the peoples power of reforming , first , we cannot find any warrant in holy scripture , for them that are private members of any church , to erect the discipline , no not though the magistrate and ministers , who should deal in this work , were altogether profane and ungodly . secondly , we esteem our prince to be a most lawful and christian magistrate , and our ministers to be true ministers of christ , and therefore we are justly afraid , that by enterprising a publick reformation , not only without , but contrary to the direction and liking of them , who by god's word ought to have , if not the onely , yet the principal hand in that work , we should highly offend god. thirdly , that for the want of publick reformation , the magistrate is every where blamed , and no where the church , for ought we can find : oft are the priests and people blamed for erecting and practising idolatry , but never for that they plucked it not down , when their princes had set it up ; neither can we find , whether ever the church , under a christian magistrate , was by any prophet , either commanded to deal ( otherwise than by perswasion ) in publick reformation , when the magistrate neglected it ; or reproved for the contrary . fourthly , to the instance of the apostles they answer two things . i. that though they set up church-government without the magistrates leave ; yet not contrary to his liking ; or when he opposed his authority directly , and inhibited it ; they never erected the discipline , when there was so direct an opposition made against it by the civil magistrates . ii. if it could be proved that the apostles did so then , yet would it not follow , that we may do so now ; for neither was the heathen magistrate altogether so much to be respected by the church , as the christian magistrate is ; neither have our ministers and people now so full and absolute a power , to pull down , and set up orders in the church , as the apostles ( those wise master-builders ) had . fifthly , as to their ministers preaching being silenced , they declare , . so long as the bishops suspend , and deprive , according to the law of the land , we account of the action herein , as of the act of the church , which we may and ought to reverence , and yield unto ; if they do otherwise , we have liberty given us by the law to appeal from them . if it be said , the church is not to be obey'd when it suspends and deprives us , for such causes as we in our consciences know to be insufficient . we answer , that it lieth on them to depose , who may ordain ; and they may shut that may open . and as he may , with a good conscience execute a ministery , by the ordination and calling of the church , who is privy to himself of some unfitness ( if the church will press him to it ) so may he who is privy to himself , of no fault that deserveth deprivation , cease from the execution of his ministery , when he is pressed thereunto by the church . and if a guiltless person , put out of his charge by the churches authority , may yet continue in it , what proceedings can there be against guilty persons , who , in their own conceit , are alwayes guiltless , or will at least pretend so to be ; seeing they will be ready alwayes to object against the churches iudgment , that they are called of god , and may not therefore give over the execution of their ministery at the will of bishops ? . that the case of the apostles was very different from theirs in three respects . first . they that inhibited the apostles , were known and professed enemies to the gospel . secondly . the apostles were charged not to teach in the name of christ , nor to publish any part of the gospel , which commandment might more hardly be yielded unto , than this of our bishops , who , though they cannot endure them which teach that part of the truth that concerneth the good government , and reformation of the church , yet are they not only content that the gospel should be preached , but are also preachers of it themselves . thirdly . the apostles received not their calling and authority from men , nor by the hands of men , but immediately from god himself , and therefore also might not be restrain'd or deposed by men ; whereas we , though we exercise a function , whereof god is the author , and we are also called of god to it , yet are we called and ordained by the hands and ministery of men , and may therefore by the ministery of men be also deposed , and restrained from the exercise of our ministery . to this , which i had referred mr. b. to , he gives this answer , if mr. rathband hath denied this , it had been no proof . did i ever mention mr. rathband's testimony as a sufficient proof ? my words are , that i was certain their practice was contrary to the doctrine of all the non-conformists , as you may see in the book published in their name by mr. rathband . can any thing be plainer , than that the book was written by the non-conformists , and that mr. rathband was only the publisher of it ? this way of answering is just , as if one should quote a passage out of curcellaeus his greek testament , and another should reply , if curcellaeus said so , it had been no proof . can mr. b. satisfie his mind with such answers ? when fr. iohnson said , that our ministers ought not to suffer themselves to be silenced and deposed from their publick ministery , no not by lawful magistrates . mr. bradshaw answered , this assertion is false and seditious . and when iohnson saith , that the apostles did not make their immediate calling from god the ground of their refusal ; but this , that they ought to obey god rather than man ; which is a duty required of all ministers and christians . bradshaw ( a person formerly in great esteem with mr. baxter , and highly commended by the author of the vindication of his dispute with iohnson ) gives this answer . . though the apostles did not assign their immediate calling from god , as the ground of their refusal , in so many letters and syllables , yet that which they do assign , is by implication , and in effect the same with it . for it is as much as if they had said , god himself hath imposed this calling upon us , and not man ; and therefore except we should rather obey man than god , we may not forbear this office which he hath imposed upon us . for , opposing the obedience of god to the obedience of man , they therein plead a calling from god , and not from man ; otherwise , if they had received a calling from man , there had been incongruity in the answer ; considering , that in common sense and reason , they ought so far forth to obey men , forbidding them to exercise a calling , as they exercise the same by vertue of that calling . else , by this reason , a minister should not cease to preach , upon the commandment of the church , that hath chosen him ; but should be bound , to give them also the same answer , which the apostles gave , which were absurd . so that by this gross conceit of mr. johnson , there should be no power in any sort of men whosoever , to depose a minister from his ministery ; but that nowithstanding any commandment of church or state , the minister is to continue in his ministery . . for the further answer of this his ignorant conceit , plainly tending to sedition , we are to know , that though the apostles , prophets , and evangelists , preached publickly , where they were not hindred by open violence ; and did not , nor might not leave their ministery upon any human authority , or commandment whatsoever , because they did not enter into , or exercise the same upon the will and pleasure of any man whatsoever ; yet they never erected and planted publick churches and ministeries in the face of the magistrate , whether they would or no ; or in despite of them ; but such , in respect of the eye of the magistrate , were as private and invisible as might be . . neither were some of the apostles only forbidden , so as others should be suffered to preach the same gospel in their places ; but the utter abolishing of christian religion was manifestly intended in silencing of them . but our churches whereof we are ministers , are no private and secret assemblies , such as hide themselves from the face of a persecuting magistrate and state ; but are publick , professing their worship , and doing their religion in the face of the magistrate and state ; yea , and by his countenance , authority and protection ; and we are set over those churches , not only by a calling of our people , but also by the authority of the magistrate , who hath an armed power to hinder any such publick action ; who is willing also to permit and maintain other true ministers of the gospel , in those places where he forbiddeth some . if therefore after our publick calling , to minister to such a known and publick church , not by the church only , but by the magistrate also , the magistrate shall have matter against us ( whether just or unjust it skilleth not ) and shall in that regard forbid us to minister to our church ; i see not by what warrant in gods word , we should think our selves bound notwithstanding to exercise our ministery still ; except we should think such a law of ministery to lie upon us , that we should judge our selves bound to run upon the swords point of the magistrate , or to oppose sword to sword. and suppose the magistrate should do it unjustly , and against the will of the church , and should therein sin ; yet doth not the church in that regard cease to be a churh , nor ought she therein to resist the will of the magistrate ; neither doth she stand bound , in regard of her affection to her minister ( how great and deserving soever ) to deprive her self of the protection of the magistrate , by leaving her publick standing , to follow his ministery in private , and in the dark ; refusing the benefit of all other publick ministery , which with the leave and liking of the magistrate she may enjoy . . neither do i know what warrant any ordinary minister hath , by gods word , in such a case , so to draw any such church or people to his private ministery , that thereby they should hazard their outward state and quiet in the common-wealth where they live ; when in some competent measure they may publickly , with the grace and favor of the magistrate , enjoy the ordinary means of salvation by another : and ( except he have a calling to minister in some church ) he is to be content to live as a private member , till it shall please god to reconcile the magistrate to him , and to call him again to his own church ; labouring mean while privately , upon particular occasions offered , to strengthen and confirm in the wayes of god , those people that are deprived of his publick labour . and i take it to be the duty of the people , in such a case , if they will approve themselves faithful christians , and good subjects , so to submit to the ministery of another , as that by prayer , and all other good , dutiful , and loyal means , they may do their best endeavor to obtain him , of whom , against their will , they have been deprived , and still to affect and love him as their pastor : now , if the people do thus , then is that minister called to be silent , not only by the magistrate , but by them also , though with much grief . to this testimony of mr. bradshaw , all that mr. b. saith , is , that bradshaw thought , we should submit to a silencing law , where our ministery was unnecessary , and so doth he . if mr. b. did allow himself any time to consider what he writes , he would never have given such an answer as this . for , mr. bradshaw never puts the case upon the necessity , or no necessity of their preaching , but upon the allowance , or disallowance of the christian magistrate . and if it had been resolved upon the point of necessity , is it possible for mr. b. to think there was less necessity of preaching at that time , than there is now , when himself confesseth , several years since , that thirty years ago , there were many bare reading , not preaching ministers , for one that there is now ? and what was there , which the old non-conformists more complained of , than the want of a more preaching ministery ? this then , could not be mr. bradshaw's reason ; and mr. baxter , upon second thoughts , cannot be of that opinion . i have yet one argument more , to prove this to have been the general sense of the non-conformists ; which is mr. sprints argument for conformity in case of deprivation ; which is , that where two duties do meet , a greater , and a less , whereof both cannot be done at the same time , the lesser duty must yield unto the greater ; but this doctrine of suffering deprivation for not conforming , teacheth , and the practice thereof causeth , to neglect a greater duty for performing of a less ; therefore it seemeth to be an error in doctrine , and a sin in practice . the force of which argument doth necessarily suppose , that ministers , deprived by law , are not to exercise their ministerial function in opposition to the law 's . and to confirm this , several non-conformists undertook to answer this argument , and to give an account of the disparity of the case , as to the apostles times , and ours . for mr. sprint had urged the instance of the apostles to this purpose , since they submitted to iewish ceremonies rather than lose the liberty of their ministery , they ought to yield to our ceremonies on the same ground ; to which they answer ; that the apostles had far greater reason so to do ; because their ministery was of far greater excellency , and usefulness , and therefore the argument was of much greater weight with the apostles , than it could be with them . for , say they , what one minister of the gospel is there , that dare be so presumptuous , as to say , that his preaching and ministery can be of that necessity , and use for the glory of god , and good of his church ; as was the ministery of his apostles ? the work whereunto the lord called and separated the apostles ( viz. the planting of the church , and the preaching the gospel to all nations ) was such , as could not have been performed by any other , but the apostles alone ; but in deprivation of our ministers that refuse conformity , there is no such danger , and of their preaching there can be no such necessity imagined ; though they preach not , the gospel is preached still , and that soundly , and fruitfully . did these men think , the apostles woe be unto me if i preach not the gospel , did reach to their case ? can mr. b. imagine , that such men thought themselves still bound to preach , although they were silenced by our laws ? and now , i hope , i have proved that to be evidently true , which mr. b. saith was notoriously false . but if after all this , mr. b. will persist , in saying , that he knew those who did otherwise ; all that i have to say to it , is , that i hope mr. bs. acquaintance , both of the one , and the other party ( if they were such , as he represents ) are not to be the standard for all the rest ; for , it seems , he was not very happy in either . part ii. of the nature of the present separation . sect. . having made it my business , in the foregoing discourse , to shew , how far the present dissenters are gone off from the principles of the old non-conformists ; i come to consider , what those principles are , which they now proceed upon ; and those are of two sorts . first , of such as hold partial , and occasional communion with our churches to be lawful ; but not total and constant , i. e. they judge it lawful at some times to be present in some part of our worship , and upon particular occasions to partake of some acts of communion with us ; but yet , they apprehend greater purity and edification in separate congregations , and when they are to choose , they think themselves bound to choose these , although at certain seasons they may think it lawful to submit to occasional communion with our church , as it is now established . secondly , of such as hold any communion with our church to be unlawful , because they believe the terms of its communion unlawful ; for which they instance , in the constant use of the liturgy ; the aereal sign of the cross ; kneeling at the communion ; the observation of holy-dayes ; renouncing other assemblies ; want of discipline in our churches ; and depriving the people of their right in choosing their own pastors . to proceed with all possible clearness in this matter , we must consider these three things , . what things are to be taken for granted by the several parties , with respect to our church . . wherein they differ among themselves about the nature and degrees of separation from it . . what the true state of the present controversie about separation , is . i. in general , they cannot deny these three things . . that there is no reason of separation , because of the doctrine of our church . . that there is no other reason of separation because of the terms of our communion , than what was from the beginning of the reformation . . that communion with our church hath been still allowed by the reformed churches abroad . . that there is no reason of separation , because of the doctrine of our church . this was confessed by the brownists , and most rigid separatists ; as is proved already ; and our present adversaries agree herein . dr. owen saith , we agree with our brethren in the faith of the gospel ; and we are firmly united with the main body of protestants in this nation , in confession of the same faith : and again , the parties at difference do agree in all substantial parts of religion , and in a common interest , as unto the preservation and defence of the protestant religion . mr. baxter saith , that they agree with us in the doctrine of the articles , as distinct from the form of government , and imposed abuses . and more fully elsewhere , is not the non conformists doctrine the same with that of the church of england , when they subscribe to it , and offer so to do ? the independents as well as presbyterians offer to subscribe to the doctrine of the articles , as distinct from prelacy and ceremony . we agree with them in the doctrine of faith , and the substance of god's worship , saith the author of the last answer . and again , we are one with the church of england in all the necessary points of faith , and christian practice , we are one with the church of england as to the substance , and all necessary parts of god's worship and even mr. a. after many trifling cavils , acknowledges , that the dissenters generally agree with that book which is commonly called the articles , which was compiled above a hundred years ago ; and this book some men call the church of england . i know not who those men are , nor by what figure they speak , who call a book a church ; but this we all say , that the doctrine of the church of england is contained therein ; and whatever the opinions of private persons may be , this is the standard by which the sense of our church is to be taken : and that no objection ought to be made , against communion with our church , upon account of the doctrine of it ; but what reaches to such articles as are owned and received by this church . . that there are in effect no new termes of communion with this church , but the same , which our first reformers owned , and suffered marty●dom for , in q. maries days . not , but that some alterations have been made since , but not such as do , in the judgment of our brethren , make the terms of communion harder than before . mr. baxter grants , that the terms of lay communion are rather made easier by such alterations , even since the additional conformity , with respect to the late troubles . the same reasons then , which would now make the terms of our communion unlawful , must have held against cranmer , ridley , &c. who laid down their lives for the reformation of this church . and this the old non-conformists thought a considerable argument against separating from the communion of our church ; because it reflected much on the honor of our martyrs ; who not only lived and died in the communion of this church ; and in the practice of those things , which some are now most offended at ; but were themselves the great instruments in setling the terms of our communion . . that communion with our church hath been still owned by the protestant and reformed churches abroad . which they have not only manifested , by receiving the apology and articles of our church into the harmony of confessions ; but by the testimony and approbation which hath been given to it , by the most esteemed , and learned writers of those churches , and by the discountenance which they have still given to separation from the communion of it . this argument was often objected against the separatists , by the non-conformists ; and ainsworth attempts to answer it no less than four times in one book ; but the best answer he gives , is , that if it prove any thing , it proves more than they would have for , saith he , the reformed churches have discerned the national church of england to be a true church ; they have discerned the diocesan bishops of england , as well as the parish-priests to be true ministers ; and rejoyce as well for their sees , as for your parishes , having joyned these all alike in the●r harmony . as to the good opinion of the reformed church , and protestant divines abroad , concerning the constitution and orders of our church , so much hath been proved already by dr. durel , and so little or nothing hath been said to disprove his evidence , that this ought to be taken as a thing granted ; but , if occasion be given , both he and o●hers are able to produce much more from the testimony of foreign divines , in justification of the communion of our church against all pretences of separation from it . sect. . we now come to the several hypotheses and principles of separation , which are at this day among the dissenters from our church . some do seem to allow separate congregations only in such places where the churches are not capable to receive the inhabitants . for this i find insisted on , by almost all my answerers ; some parishes , saith one , cannot receive a tenth part , some not half the people , belonging to them , few can receive all . the parochial teacher , saith another , is overlaid with a numerous throng of people . the parish ministers are not near sufficient for so populous a city , saith a third . and yet not one of these , but assignes such reasons , for the necessity of separate congregations , as would equally hold , if there were never a church in london , but what would hold all the inhabitants together . this is therefore but a color , and pretence , and no real cause . any one would think , by mr. baxter's insisting so very much , on the greatness and largeness of our parishes , as the reason of his preaching in separate congregations , this were his opinion , that such congregations are only allowable in such vast parishes , where they are helps to the parochial churches : and no man denies , that more places for worship are desireable , and would be very useful , where they may be had , and the same way of worship and order observed in them , as in our parochial churches ; where they may be under the same inspection , and ecclesiastical government ; where , upon pretence of greater purity of worship , and better means of edification , the people are not drawn into separation . but , is it possible that mr. baxter should think the case alike , where the orders of our church are constantly neglected , the authority of the bishops is slighted and contemned ; and such meetings are kept up in affront to them , and the laws ? would mr. b. have thought this a sufficient reason for mr. tombs to have set up a meeting of anabaptists in kidderminster , because it is a very large parish ? or for r. williams in new-england to have set up a separate congregation at boston , because there were but three churches there , to receive all the numerous inhabitants ? if such a number of churches could be built , as were suitable to the greatness , and extent of parishes , we should be so far from opposing it , that we should be very thankful to those who would accomplish so excellent a work : but , in the mean time , is this just and reasonable , to draw away the people , who come to our churches , under the pretence of preaching to those who cannot come ? for , upon consideration , we shall find , ( . ) that this is mr. baxter's own case . for , if we observe him , although he sometimes pretends only to preach to some of many thousands , that cannot come into the temples , many of which never heard a sermon of many years ; and to this purpose he put so many quaere 's to me , concerning the largeness of parishes , and the necessity of more assistants , thereby to insinuate , that what he did , was only to preach to such , as could not come to our churches ; yet , when he is pinch'd with the point of separation , then he declares , that his hearers are the same with ours ; at least or for one ; and that he knows not many ( if any ) who use to hear him , that separate from us . if this be true , as no doubt mr. b. believes it , then what such mighty help , or assistance is this to our great parishes ? what color , or pretence is there from the largeness of them , that he should preach to the very same persons , who come to our churches ? and if such meetings as theirs be only lawful in great parishes , where they preach to some of many thousands who cannot come into the churches , then how come they to be lawful , where few or none of those many thousands ever come at all , but they are filled with the very same persons , who come to our parish churches ? these two pretences then are inconsistent with each other ; and one of them cannot hold . for if he doth preach to those who come to our churches , and scarce to any else ( i● any , as mr. b. supposes ) then all the pretence from the large●ess of our parishes , and the many thousands who cannot come to our churches , is vain and impertinent ; and , to speak softly , not becoming mr. baxter's sincerity . ( . ) that if this were mr. baxter's own case , viz. that he preached only to such , as could not come to our churches , it would be no defence of the general practice of dissenters , who express no regard at all to the greatness or smallness of parishes . as , if it were necessary , might be proved , by an induction of the particular congregations within the city ; and in the adjacent parishes . either those separarate meetings are lawful or not ; if not , why doth not mr. baxter disown them ? if they be , why doth he p●etend the greatness of parishes to justifie separate m●etings ; when , if they were never so small , they would be lawful however ? this therefore must be set aside , as a mee● color and pretence , which he thought plausible for himself , and invidious to us , though the bounds of our parishes were ne●ther of our own making , nor is it in our power to alter them . and we shall find , that mr. b. doth justifie them upon other grounds , which have no relation at all to the extent of parishes , or capacity of churches . i come therefore to the real grounds which they proceed upon . sect. . some do allow communion with some parochial churches , in some duties , at some seasons ; but not with all churches , in all duties , or at all times . these things must be more particulary explained , for a right understanding the mystery of the present separation . which proceeds not so openly and plainly , as the old separation did ; but hath such artificial windings and turnings in it , that a man thinks they are very near our church , when they are at a great distance from it . if we charge them with following the steps of the old separatists , we utterly deny it , for , say they ; for they separated from your churches as no true churches ; they disowned your ministery and hierarchy as antichristian , and looked on your worship as idolatrous ; but we do none of these things ; and therefore you charge us unjustly with separation . to which i answer , ( . ) there are many still , especially of the people , who pursue the principles of the old separatists ; of whom mr b. hath spoken very well in his cure of divisions , and the defence of it ; and elsewhere . where he complains , of their violence , and censoriousness : their contempt of the gravest and wisest pastors ; and forcing others to forsake their own judgments to comply with their humors . and , he saith , a sinful humoring of rash professors , is as great a temptation to them , as a sinful compliance with the great ones of the world. in another place he saith , the people will not endure any forms of prayers among them , but they declare they would be gone from them , if they do use them . and he doth not dissemble , that they do comply with them , in these remarkable words , should the ministers in london , that have suffer'd so long , but use any part of the liturgy and scripture forms , though without any motive but the pleasing god and the churches good , what muttering and censuring would then be among them ? and woe to those few teachers that make up their designs by cherishing these distempers . one would think , that their warning had been fair ; but , si nati sint ad bis perdendam angliam ; the lord have mercy upon us . ( . ) when the matter is throughly examined , the difference between the teachers , and the old separatists , will be found not near so great as is pretended . for what matter is it , as to the nature of separation , whether the terms of our communion be called idolatrous , or vnlawful ; whether the ministery of our church be called a false ministery , or insufficient , scandalous , vsurpers , and persecutors ; whether our hierarchy be called antichristian , or repugnant to the institution of christ. now these are the very same arguments , which the old separatists used , only they are disguised under another appearance , and put into a more fashionable dress . as will be manifest by particulars . ( . ) as to the people . ( . ) as to the ministry of our church . sect. . ( i. ) our present dissenters who disown the old separation , yet make the terms of lay-communion for persons , as members of our church , to be unlawful . for , mr. b. in his late plea for peace , hath a whole chapter of reasons against the communion of laymen with our church . and in the same book he saith , it is schismatical in a church to deny baptism , without the transient sign of the cross , or for want of godfathers , &c. or to deny the communion to such who scruple kneeling . now , if the church be schismatical , then those who separate in these things are not . for saith mr. b. when the laity cannot have their children baptized without such use of the transient dedicating image of the cross ; and such use of entitling and covenanting godfathers , which they take to be no small sin ; is it separation to joyn with pastors that will otherwise baptize them ? we see the church is schismatical in requiring these things , and mr. b. thinks the people bound to joyn with other pastors that will not use them ; and what is this but formal separation ? but for all this , mr. b. may hold , that total renouncing of communion with our church may be schismatical ; for , he saith , it may be schism to separate from a church that hath some schismatical principles , practises , and persons , if those be not such , and so great , as to necessitate our departure from them . but here mr. b. saith , there is a necessity of departure , and to joyn with other pastors ; and therefore he must hold a formal separation : and as to the renouncing total communion with our church , that was never done by the greatest separatists . for they all held communion in faith with it : and even brown , the head of the old separatists , thought it lawful to joyn with our church in some acts of worship ; and others thought , they might joyn in acts of private and christian communion , but not in acts of church communion ; others thought it lawful to joyn in hearing sermons and pulpit prayers , though not in others ; and yet were charged with separation by the old non-conformists . and if our present dissenters do hold the terms of communion with our church to be unlawful ; they must hold a necessity of separation , or that persons may be good christians , and yet be no members of any church . for , if it be unlawful to communicate as members of our church , they must either not communicate at all as members of any church , or as members of a distinct and separate church from ours . if they declare themselves members of another church , they own as plain a separation , as the old separatists ever did : if they do not , and yet hold it unlawful to communicate with our churches as members , then they are members of no church at all . so that , if they hold the terms of our communion unlawful ; they must either be separatists , or no good christians upon their own principles . for , saith the author of the letter out of the country ; this were to exchange visible christianity , for visible ( at least negative ) paganism . now , that our present dissenters do hold the terms of our communion unlawful , they are more forward to declare , than i could have imagined . in my sermon i mentioned some passages , wherein it seemed clear to me , that some considerable persons among them did allow lay communion with our church to be lawful : but they have taken a great deal of pains to undeceive me ; some declaring in express terms , that they look on the terms of our communion as unlawful , and that there is a necessity of separation from our parochial churches , and of joyning to other congregations . and others saying , that such a concession , viz. that they hold communion with our churches to be lawful , taken in their own sense , will neither do them any harm , nor us any service . for , as mr. a. hath summed up the sense of these men. . many of them declare so , and many declare otherwise — and it 's as good an argument to prove communion unlawful , because many declare against it , as 't is to prove it lawful , because many declare for it . . they d●clare communion lawful , but. d● they declare total communion lawful ? the same persons will tell us , that both these propositions are ●●ue communion is lawful ▪ and communion is unlawful ; communion in some parts of worship is so , in others not . and , . th●y will further tell us , that communion with some parish chu●ches is lawful , with others unlawful ; that there are not the same doctrines preached , the same ceremonies urged , the same rigid terms of communion in all churches exacted . and lastly , that occasional communion is , or may be lawful , where a stated and fixed communion is not so ; and they give this reason for their iudgment and practice , because to hold communion with one church , or sort of christians , exclusively to all others , is contrary to their true catholick principles , which teach them to hold communion , though not equally , with all tolerable churches ; and that there are some things tolerable , which are not eligible , wherein they can bear with much for peace sake , but chuse rather to sit down ordinarily with purer administrations . here we have the principles of the new separation laid together . . many of them hold communion with our church unlawful ; and that must be understood of any kind of communion ; for the second sort , from whom they are distinguish●d , hold total communion unlawful ; and therefore this first sort must hold communion in any parts of worship unlawful . and so they exceed the more moderate separatists of robinson's , and the new-england way ; and must fall into the way of the most rigid separatists . . those that do hold communion lawful , do it with so many restrictions and limitations , that in practice it amounts to little more than the other . for first , it is only with some churches ; and those it seems must be such , as do not hold to our constitution ; for he saith , the same ceremonies are not urged in all churches , nor the same rigid terms of communion exacted , i. e. if any churches among us comply with them , they can communicate with them , i. e. if they break their own rules , they can joyn with them . is not this an admirable way of communicating with our churches ? but , if our churches hold to their rule , and observe the orders prescribed , then it seems they renounce all communion with them as unlawful . and what is this but to deny communion with the church of england ? for unless parochial churches depart from the terms of communion required by it , they will have no communion with them . and mr. a. delivers this , not only as his own opinion ▪ but as the sense of the party , that if most of the preachers in the separate meetings were asked their iudgments , about the lawfulness of ioyning with the parochial churches in all the parts of worship , or in any exclusive to their joyning with other assemblies , where the gospel rule is more strictly observed , they would flatly deny it . and he goes yet further , when he saith , that the people cannot lawfully separate from those churches whereof they are regularly members , and from those pastors , under whose ministerial conduct their own free election hath placed them , to joyn ordinarily and constantly with any other particular churches . this is owning a plain and downright separation , in as clear and distinct words as ever iohnson or ainsworth did . for , . he makes it to be their general sense , that it is unlawful to communicate with our churches ordinarily and constantly , or to be members of our churches : which is the same thing which they said . . he ownes the setting up new and distinct churches in plain opposition to ours . for he owns other pastors , other people , and a new relation between these , by the choice of the one , and the conduct of the other . this is no mincing the matter , as mr. b. often doth ; but he speaks it boldly , and with great assurance ; and ushers it in with , i have confidence contrary to his . i think no man doubts of his confidence , that ever looked into his book ; but in this matter he is so brisk , that he saith , he doth not question that he should carry it by the poll. and is withall so indiscreet as on this occasion to triumph in the poll of non-conformists at guildhall : as though all who gave their votes there , had owned these principles of separation , for which , many of those gentlemen will give him little thanks , and is a very unseasonable boasting of their numbers . ( ii. ) all the difference then that seems to be left , is about the lawfulness of that which they call occasional communion . as to which , these things are to be observed . ( . ) that it is practised by very few ; especially if mr. a ' s. poll be allowed . ( . ) that it signifies little , as to this matter , if men be fixed members of other churches . for the denomination of their communion is to be taken from thence , and not from an occasional and accidental presence . for communion with a church , is joyning with a church as a member of that church : and it is not occasional presence at some parts of worship , which makes a man a member of a church . i suppose there are many occasionally present at mr. a's , or mr. b's meetings , who renounce all communion with them . a protestant may be occasionally present at some parts of worship in the roman church , and that frequently too , to hear sermons , &c. but , doth this make a man to have communion with the church of rome ? most of our gentlemen who have travelled abroad , have been thus occasionally present in some parts of the romish worship , at rome and paris ; but they would think themselves hardly dealt with , to be charged to have had communion with the church of rome . and if they be urged with it , they will plead still , they were of the protestant communion ; and the reason they will give , is , because they did not joyn with them in all parts of their worship ; not in adoration of the host , or worship of images ; and therefore they remained still of the protestant communion , although they were occasionally present at some parts of the popish service . and is it not the same case here , if men only afford an occasional presence , at some parts of our worship ? how comes this to make them more to have communion with our church , than the like presence would make them to have communion with the roman church ? in the beginning of q elizabeth's reign , most of the papists in england did offer an occasional presence at our churches , in some parts of our worship ; and yet all that time were members of the roman church , because they kept their priests , and had mass in private , and declared , that though they looked on our service as tolerable , yet they thought the roman more eligible ; and so having full communion with that , and being only occasionally present at our service , they thought themselves good catholicks . so , if men do look on the separate meetings as more eligible , and a better way of worship ; with which they constantly joyn , and alwayes choose to do it , their occasional presence at our assemblies , doth not make them members of our churches , but they still remain members of the separate congregations , if they maintain full and constant communion with them . and none of the formed separate churches will look on any one as having communion with them , for being occasionally present at some parts of their worship ; for they say , that heathens and indians may have such occasional communion with them ; but they require from persons that are admitted to communion with their churches , a submission to all the rules and orders among them . the new-england churches will suffer no man to continue a member of their communion , that scruples infant baptism , or refuses to be present at the administration of it ; although he be never so willing to be occasionally present at all other parts of worship with them . for not only openly condemning and opposing infant-baptism , but going about secretly to seduce others from the approbation or use thereof , or purposely departing the congregation at the administration of that ordinance , is liable , by their laws , to the sentence of banishment . and they have found it so necessary to twist the civil and ecclesiastical interests together , that as none but church-members are free-men among them ; so none that are banished can retain their church-membership . from all this , it appears , that this new notion of occasional communion , in some parts of worship . exclusively to others , is disowned by all sorts of churches ; and is a late fancy taken up on purpose to avoid the charge of separation . sect. . but we here meet with an excellent reason for the lawfulness of this occasional communion with our churches ; viz. because to hold communion with one church exclusively to all others , is contrary to their true catholick principles , which teach them to hold communion , though not equally , with all tolerable churches . or as mr. b. expresses it , the benefit of christian love and concord may make it best , for certain seasons , to joyn even in defective modes of worship , as christ did in the synagogues and temple in his time : though the least defective must be chosen , when no such accidental reasons sway the other way . from whence we may take notice , ( . ) that no obligation to the peace and vnity of this church , as they are members of it , doth bring them to this occasional communion with it , but a certain romantick fancy of catholick vnity ; by which these catholick gentlemen think themselves no more obliged to the communion of this church , than of the armenian or abyssine churches . only it happens , that our church is so much nearer to them , than the others are , and therefore they can afford it more occasional communion . but i would suppose one of these men of catholick principles to be at ierusalem , where he might have occasional communion with all sorts of the eastern churches ; and some of the members of those churches should ask him , what church he is member of ? if he should answer , he could have occasional communion with all tolerable churches , but was a fixed member of none : would they take such a man for a christian ? what , a christian , and a member of no church ! that , they would all agree , was no part of catholick christianity . and i much doubt , whether any of them would admit such a one to occasional communion , that could not tell what church he was member of . for , as to the church of england , he declares , that he holds only occasional communion with that , as he would do with any other tolerable churches . but , were they not baptized in this church , and received into communion with it as members of it ? if so , then if they communicate no otherwise with it , than as a tolerable defective church , they must renounce their former membership ; for that did oblige them to fixed and constant communion with it . and if they do renounce their membership in this church , their occasional presence at some duties of worship can never excuse them from separation . we thank them , that they are pleased to account our churches tolerable , but we cannot see , how in any tolerable sense they can be accounted members of our church ; so that this great favor of occasional communion , which they do not chuse but submit to for some accidental reasons , and some very good occasions , is not worth the speaking of among friends ; and so far from looking like communion , that it hath hardly the face of a civility . ( . ) that , if the least defective way of worship is to be chosen , as they say , then this occasional communion cannot be lawful above once or twice in a man's life : for that is sufficient to shew their true catholick principles ; and mr. b. faith , when no such accidental reasons do sway , they are to choose the least defective way of worship ; or as mr. a. speaks , to sit down ordinarily with purer administrations . if then a man be bound , out of love to his soul , to prefer the best way of worship , and he judges the way of the separate congregations to be such , there will arise a difficult case of conscience , concerning the lawfulness of this occasional communion . for the same reasons , which moved him to prefer one communion above the other , will likewise induce him to think himself bound to adhere constantly to the one , and to forsake the other . and why should a man , that is acquainted with purer administrations , give so much countenance to a defective way of worship , and have any communion with a church which walks so disorderly , and contrary to the rules of the gospel ; and not reprove her rather , by a total forbearance of her communion ? and why should not those general rules of approving the things that are more excellent , and holding fast that which is good , and not forsaking the assembling themselves together , perswade such a man , that it is not lawful to leave the best communion , meerly to shew , what defective , and tolerable church he can communicate with ? which is , as if a man should forsake his muskmelons , to let others see what pumpions he can swallow ; or to leave wholsom diet to feed on mushroms , and trash . ( . ) that here are no bounds set to the peoples fancies of purer administrations , and less defective wayes of worship . so that there can be no stop to separation in this way . suppose some think our churches tolerable , and mr. b's . or mr. a's . meetings were eligible ; but after a while , when the first rellish 〈◊〉 . they afford occasional communion to the 〈◊〉 or quakers , and then think their way more 〈◊〉 and the other only tolerable ; are not these men bound to forsake them , for the same reasons , by which they were first moved to leave our communion , and joyn with them , unless they be secure , that the absolute perfection of their way of worship is so glaringly visible to all mankind , that it is impossible for them , either to find or fancy any defect in it ? mr. baxter once very well said , separation will ruin the separated churches themselves at last ; it will admit of no consistency . parties will arise in the separated churches , and separate again from them , till they are dissolved . why might not r. williams of new-england ( mention'd by mr. b. ) proceed in his course of separation from the church of salem , because he thought he had found out a purer and less defective way of worship than theirs ; as well as they might withdraw from our churches on the like pretence ? why might he not go on still refining of churches , till at last he dissolved his society , and declared , that every one should have liberty to worship god according to the light of his own conscience ? by which remarkable instance we see , that this principle , when pursued , will carry men at last to the dissolution of all churches . sect. . this i had objected to mr. b. in my letter , that upon his principles the people might leave him to morrow , and go to dr. o. and leave him next week and go to the anabaptists , and from them to the quakers . to which mr. b. answers ; what harm will it do me or them , if any hearers go from me , as you say , to dr. o. none , that i know . for , as dr. o. saith , since your practice is one and the same , your principles must be so also , although you choose several wayes of expressing them . but , did the whole force of my argument lie there ? did i not mention their going from him to the anabaptists and quakers , upon the very same ground ? and , is this a good way of answering , to dissemble the main force of an argument , that something may seem to be said to it ? i suppose mr. b's . great hast made him leave the best part of the argument behind him . but i desire him calmly to weigh and consider it better ; whether he doth think it reasonable to suppose , that since the peace and vnity of the church is a thing of such great importance , and separation so mischievous ( as he hath represented it ) that the peoples apprehension of a less defective way of worship , shall be sufficient ground for them to break a church in pieces , and to run into wayes of separation ? hath not mr. baxter represented ( and no man better ) the ignorance , injudiciousness , pride , conceitedness and vnpeaceabless of the ordinary sort of zealous professors of religion ? and after all this , must they , upon a conceit of purer administrations , and less defective wayes of worship , be at liberty to rend and tear a church into pieces ; and run from one separate congregation to another , till they have run themselves out of breath , and left the best parts of their religion behind them ? how fully hath mr. b. set forth the vngovernable and factious humor of this sort of people , and the pernicious consequences of complying with them ? and , must the reins be laid in their necks , that they may run whither they please ? because , forsooth , they know better , what is good for their souls , than the king doth ; and they love their souls better than the king doth , and the king cannot bind them to hurt , or famish , or endanger their souls . but , why must the king bear all the blame , if mens souls be not provided for according to their own wishes ? doth the king pretend to do any thing in this matter , but according to the establish'd laws and orders of this church ? why did he not keep to the good old phrase of king and parliament ? and why did he not put it as it ought to have been , that they know what makes better for their own edification , than the wisdom of the whole nation in parliament , and the governors of this church do : and let them make what law 's and orders they will , if the people , even the rash and injudicious professors , as mr. b. calls them , do think other means of edification better , and other wayes of worship less defective , they are bound to break through all laws , and to run into separation . and , how is it possible , upon these terms , to have any peace , or order , or any establish'd church ? i do not remember , that any of the old separatists , no not barrow , or iohnson , did ever lay down such loose principles of separation , as these are . the brownists declare , in their apology , that none are to separate for faults and corruptions , which may , and will fall out among men , even in true constituted churches , but by due order to seek the redress thereof . where a church is rightly constituted , here is no allowance of separation for defects and corruptions of men , although they might apprehend smith or iacob to be more edifying preachers , than either iohnson , or ainsworth . the ground of separation with them , was the want of a right constituted church ; if that were once supposed , other defects were never till now thought to be good grounds of separation . in the platform of the discipline of new-england , it is said , that church-members may not depart from the church as they please , nor without just and weighty cause : because such departure tends to the dissolution of the body . those just reasons are , . if a man cannot continue without sin . . in case of persecution . not one word of better means of edification . for the independents have wisely taken care to secure their members to their own congregations , and not suffer them to wander abroad upon such pretences ; lest such liberty should break them into disorder and confusion . so in their declaration at the savoy , they say , that persons joyned in church-fellowship , ought not lightly , or without just cause , to withdraw themselves from the communion of the church , whereunto they are joyned . and they reckon up those which they allow for just causes . . where any person cannot continue in any church without his sin : and that in three cases . first , want of ordinances . secondly , being deprived of due priviledges . thirdly , being compelled to any thing in practice , not warranted by the word . . in case of persecution . . vpon the account of conveniency of habitation . and in these cases , the church or officers are to be consulted , and then they may peaceably depart from the communion of the church . no allowance here made of forsaking a church , meerly for greater means of edification . and how just soever the reason were , they are civilly to take leave of the church and her officers , and to tell them why they depart . and mr. burroughs condemns it , as the direct way to bring in all kind of disorder and confusion into the church . yet this is now the main support of the present separation ; and meer necessity hath driven them to it ; for either they must own the principles of the old separatists , which they are unwilling to do , or find out others to serve their turn ; but they are such , as no man , who hath any regard to the peace and vnity of the church , can ever think fit to maintain , since they apparently tend to nothing but disorder and confusion , as mr. burroughs truly observed . but what ground is there to suppose so much greater means of edification in the separate congregations ? since mr. b. is pleased to give this testimony to the preaching in our parish-churches ; that for his part , he hath seldom heard any , but very good well-studied sermons in the parish churches in london , where he hath been ; but most of them are more fitted to well-bred schol●rs , or judicious hearers , than to such as need more practicall subjects , and a more plain , familiar , easie method . is this the truth of the case indeed ? then , for all that i can see , the king is excused from all blame in this matter ; unless it be a fault to provide too well for them . and , is this a good ground for separation , that the preaching is too good for the people ? some men may want causes to defend , but at this rate they can never want arguments . yet , methinks , the same men should not complain of starving , and famishing souls , when the only fault is , that the meat is too good , and too well dressed for them . and on the other side , hath not mr. b. complained publickly of the weakness and injudiciousness of too many of the non-conformist preachers ? and that he really fears , lest meer non-conformists have brought some into reputation as conscientious , who , by weak preaching , will lose the reputation of being iudicious , more than their silence lost it . and again , but verily the injudiciousness of too many is for a lamentation . to which he adds , but the grand calamity is , that the most injudicious are usually the most confident and self-conceited , and none so commonly give way to their ignorant zeal , to censure , backbite , and reproach others , as those that know not what they talk of . let now any reader judge , whether upon the stating of the case by mr. b. himself , their having better means of edification , can be the ground of leaving our churches , to go to separate congregations , unless injudiciousness , and self-conceited confidence and an ignorant zeal may perhaps be more edifying to some capacities , and to some purposes , than judicious and well studied sermons . this argument must therefore be quitted ; and they who will defend the present separation , must return to the old principles of the separatists , if they will justifie their own practices . and so i find mr. b. is forced to do ; for discerning ▪ that the pretence of greater edification would not hold of it self , he adds more weight to it , and that comes home to the business ; viz. that the people doubt of the calling of the obtruded men. this is indeed an argument for separation , and the very same , which barrow , and greenwood , and iohnson , and smith , and can used . now we are come to the old point of defending the calling of our ministry ; but we are mistaken , if we think they now manage it after the same manner . we do not hear so much the old terms of a false and antichristian ministry ; but if they do substitute others in their room as effectual to make a separation , but less fit to justifie it , the difference will not appear to be at all to their advantage . sect. . . i come therefore to consider the principles of our new separatists , as to the ministry of our church ; and to discover , how little they differ from the old separatists , when this matter is throughly enquired into , as to the argument for separation . i. in general , they declare , that they only look on those as true churches , which have such pastors whom they approve . how oft have i told you , saith mr. b. that i distinguish , and take those for true churches , that have true pastors . but i take those for no true churches , that have , . men uncapable of the pastoral office. . or not truly called to it . . or that deny themselves to have the power essential to a pastor . and one or other of these he thinks most , if not all the parochial churches in england fall under . you will say then , mr. b. is a rigid separatist ; and thinks it not lawful to joyn with any of our parochial congregations : but this is contradicted by his own practice . there lies therefore a farther subtilty in this matter ; for he declares in the same place , he can joyn with them notwithstanding . but how ? as true churches , though he saith they are not ? no ; but as chappels and oratories , although they be not churches , as wanting an essential part . this will bring the matter to a very good pass , the parish churches of england shall only be chappels of ease to those of the non-conformists . this i confess is a subtilty beyond the reach of the old brownists , and non-conformists , for they both took it for granted that there was sufficient ground for separation , if our churches were not true churches , and the proof of that depended on the truth of our ministry . now , saith mr. b. although our parochial congregations be not true churches , because they want an essential part , viz. a true ministry , yet he can joyn with them occasionally , as chappels or oratories . from whence it appears , that he accounts not our parochial churches as true churches , nor doth communicate with them as such ; but only looks on them as publick places of prayer , to which a man may resort upon occasion without owning any relation to the minister , or looking on the congregation as a church . for , where he speaks more fully , he declares , that he looks on none as true churches , but such as have the power of the keys within themselves , and hath a bishop or pastor over them with that power ; and any parochial church that hath such a one , and ownes it self to be independent , he allows to be a true church , and none else . so that unless our parochial churches and ministers assume to themselves episcopal power , in opposition to the present constitution of our church , as he apprehends , he at once discards them all from being true churches : but i shall afterwards discover his mistake as to the nature of our parochial churches ; that which i only insist on now is , that he looks on none of them as truly constituted churches , or as he calls it , of the political organized form , as wanting an essential part , viz. a true pastor . from hence it necessarily follows , either that mr. b. communicates with no true church at all ; or it must be a separate church ; or , if he thinks himself bound to be a member of a true church , he must proceed to as a great separation as the old brownists did , by setting up new churches in opposition to ours . it is no sufficient answer in this case , to say , that mr. b. doth it not ; for we are only to shew , what he is obliged to do by vertue of his own principles : which tend to as much separation , as was practised in former times , and hath been so often condemned by mr. b. sect. . ii. suppose they should allow our parochial churches in their constitution to be true churches ; yet the exceptions they make against the ministers of our churches are so many , that they scarce allow any , from whom they may not lawfully separate . . if the people judge their ministers unworthy , or incompetent , they allow them liberty to withdraw , and to separate from them . this i shall prove from many passages in several books of mr. b. and others . first , they 〈◊〉 it in the peoples power , notwithstanding all lega●●stablishments , to own or disown whom they judge sit mr. b. speaks his mind very freely against the rights and ●etronage , and the power of magistrates in these cases , and pleads for the unalterable rights of the people ; as the old separatists did . god , saith mr. b. in nature and scripture , hath given the people that consenting power , antecedent to the princes determination , which none can take from them . mr. a. saith , every particular church has an inherent right to choose its own pastors . dr. o. makes the depriving the people of this right one of his grounds of separation . so that although our ministers have been long in possession of their places , yet if the people have not owned them , they are at liberty to choose whom they please . how many hundred congregations , saith mr. b. have incumbents , whom the people never consented to ; but take them for their hinderers and burden ! so many hundred congregations it seems are in readiness for separation . secondly , the people are made iudges of the worthiness and competency of their ministers . this follows from the former . in case incompetent pastors be set over the people , saith mr. b. though it be half the parishes in a kingdom , or only the tenth part , it is no schism , saith he , but a duty , for those that are destitute , to get the best supply they can , i.e. to choose those whom they judge more competent ; and it is no schism but a duty , for faithful ministers , though forbidden by superiors , to perform their office to such people that desire it . this is plain dealing . but suppose the magistrate should cast out some , and put in others ; in that case he saith , if they be men of uniried and suspected parts of fidelity ( of which the people are to be judges ) the princes imposition doth not make such true pastors of the church before , or without the people consent ; nor doth it always bind the people to consent , and to forsake their former pastors , nor prove them schismaticks , because they do it not . thirdly , they give particular directions to the people , what sort of ministers they should own , and what not . mr. b. bids the people not think that he is perswading them to make no difference : but after he hath set aside the utterly insufficient , and the heretical ( of which the people are admirable judges ) he lays down this general rule , any one whose ministry is such , as tendeth to destruction more than to edification , and to do more harm than good is not to be owned . and if not to be owned so , then he is to be separated from : and although he adviseth the people to lay aside partiality and passion ; yet whether they will or not , they are left sole iudges in this matter . and that we may not think all this to be only a romantick scheme , or fiction , he tells us elsewhere , that they are not able to confute the people in too many places , who tell them that their publick priests are so defective in their necessary qualifications for their office , as that they hold it unlawful to own such for true ministers , and to encourage them by their presence , or commit the care of their souls to such , i.e. in plain terms , they are encouraged to separation on this account , which is directly contrary to the principles of the old non-conformists , as appears at large by mr. ball. if , saith he , can's meaning be , that it is not lawful to communicate in the worship of god with ministers not fitly qualified , disorderly called , or carelesly executing their office and function , then it is directly contrary to the word of truth , sound reason , and consent of all the learned . with much more to that purpose . and even mr. b. himself , when he takes upon him as a casuist to determine these things , doth then declare his mind . . that a ministers personal faults do not allow people to separate from the worship of god. . nor all ministerial faults , but only those that prove him or his ministration utterly intolerable . but now , if mr. b. may be believed , the people need not be told , how great a number of cases there are among us , where the ministers are uncapable of the ministerial office , and therefore it is no sin in them to judge him no minister , and consequently to separate from him . hath not mr. b. fully set forth the pride , ignorance , censoriousness , headiness , rashness of raw and injudicious zealots ? and after all this . is it fit or reasonable , that the opinion of such persons be taken , concerning the qualifications of their ministers ? hath not mr. b. complained with more than ordinary resentment , that they are ready to scorn , and vilifie the gravest wisest pastors ? and , must such mens judgments be taken , concerning the abilities and competency of their ministers ? either mr. b. hath extremely wronged them in the characters he hath given of such people ; or he hath taken away all the reputation of their judgment in such cases : when they scorn and contemn the greavest wisest pastors , are they fit to judge of ministerial a●ilities ? but there are graver and wiser among the people . suppose that ; but doth not mr. b. say , that the rawest and rashest professors are commonly the most violent and censorious ? these are the bold and forward men , that will judge in spite of the rest ; these are the men that need not be told , what numbers of uncapable ministers there are among us and it doth not become mr. b's gravity or wisdom to hearken to all the censures and malicious reports of such ignorant and heady zealots ( as he calls them ) about the unworthiness or incapacity of their ministers . are they only the grave and wise pastors among themselves , which are scorned by such men ? it is possible , that those may be grave and wise among us too , whom they censure for incompetent men ; or must the same people which are raw and injudicious , ignorant and censorious , proud and self-conceited , when they make their judgment of them , be of a sudden turned into grave and wise men , when they pass their judgment upon the abilities and fitness of our preachers ? this doth not look like fair and equal dealing . i pray let our ministers have a fair hearing , and let the matter be well examined , before the people be thus encouraged to separate from their ministers for their disabilities , or unworthiness . but suppose there be too great a number of young , raw , injudicious preachers , as mr. b. saith , no man can deny that knoweth england , and hath any modesty . is there no way , but to your tents o israel ? will nothing but separation serve your turn ? is this the way to mend the matter , and to make them grave and wise ? doth not mr. b. confess , that they have too many such among themselves ? must they separate from them too ? what endless confusions do such principles tend to ? but the bottom of all is , this separation must be justified , one way or other ; and such principles found out , which may seem to do it . yet after all , what is this to the present case of separation in this city ? for here the charge was laid , and to this the answer must be given , or it is to no purpose . is it any reason , that near half of some parishes in london , should separate from their grave and wise pastors , such as i know some to be , where this case is ; because in cornwall , or yorkshire , or northumberland , there are many raw and injudicious , besides scandalous priests , as mr. b. speaks ? we urge you particularly with the london separation , you tell us what the people say of the insufficiency and vnworthiness of the clergy in other parts of england ; suppose it true , what is all this to the business ? if you persist in this way , we can name the parishes to you in london , where the ministers are men of unexceptionable learning and piety ; where the churches are large enough to receive the people that separate ; as well as those that come ; and yet they forsake the churches communion , and adhere to the separate congregations : tell us plainly in this case , is this separation lawful or not ? if it be lawful , to what purpose do you make use of so many shifts and evasions , as to great prishes , and insufficient and scandalous priests , in other parts of the nation ? answer to the case proposed , and to the place where the charge was laid ; and think not to escape by such apparent evasions , and impertinencies as these . if you think such a separation unlawful , then why do you pretend to confute my sermon , which was designed purposely against it ? sect. . but while you plead for this liberty of the peoples separating upon their iudgment of their ministers abilities and fitness , you can never secure them from separation from any church or ministers whatsoever . and no setled church in the world could ever subsist long , without infinite disorder and confusion , if this were allow'd . for mr. b. thinks them uncapable of the ministerial office in the peoples judgment . . who have not tolerable ministerial knowledge , or utterance . . who are heretical . . who malignantly oppose serious religion as hypocrisie , or a needless thing . . who by their wicked lives do more hurt than they do good . from such , saith he , st. paul bids turn away . and of all these things the people are to be iudges ; and so may separate , ( . ) when they are unsatisfied about the ministerial knowledge or utterance of their ministers . as for their vtterance ; we may allow them to be judges of that ; but i never heard before , that st. paul did bid people turn away from their ministers , if their vtterance were not thought to be tolerable . for he intimates , that some complained of his utterance and had him in contempt for it . but as to abilities and knowledge fit for ministers , are not the people admirable judges ? how few , how very few , even of those of the people who pretend most to knowledge in religion , have any tolerable understanding of the true principles , and right notion of it ? i do not speak only of artificers and tradesmen ; but of those of better education , who either by prejudices , or want of due application of their minds to such things , are subject to great mistakes about religion , and yet may be very good men : if such as these , are so unfit to judge of ministerial knowledge , and the doctrines of religion , what shall we say to the common sort of raw , and injudicious professors of religion ? mr. b's . experience in the world is not so little , as not to know and be sensible of the truth of this , among the people most apt to divide and separate . is it not then a strange thing he should thus subject the judgment of ministerial knowledge to such a company of triers as these ? but suppose they do allow their ministers to pass for men of tolerable abilities , and reasonable good utterance , there is a harder task yet behind , and that is , to approve themselves to the people to be sound and orthodox ; for , saith mr. b. ( ) if they be heretical , they may without sin separate from them . but how shall a man escape being thought heretical by the people , if they have a mind to make him so ; i.e. if he crosseth their humor , and delivers such doctrine as doth not please them ; for that is generally their standard for heresie ? and they cannot well have any other ; unless you will suppose all the people to be learned divines , and every man obliged to read and understand epiphanius and binius : and then perhaps they may be competent iudges of heresie , and come at last to be even with the divines for having been their judges so long in that matter . let us now suppose a person of great value and esteem among them for his other ministerial abilities , should happen to be thought unsound in the point of iustification , and to draw too near to the papists in it ; and this not only be said by the common people , but they are abetted and encouraged in it , by the greatest part of their teachers , who tell them , this is a fundamental point , articulus stantis & cadentis ecclesiae ; that they had as good give up the cause of reformation , as yield in that matter , as some have said ; i would fain know in this case , whether upon mr. b's . principles , the people are not bound to separate from such a man , notwithstanding his other abilities ? the like may happen as to many other doctrines , which the people are as incompetent iudges of , as they are in this matter . let us yet suppose that such a man may pass for sound in the main among the people ; what shall we say to him , if under pretence of curing divisions he exposes good people , and lays open with great freedom and plainness their factious , turbulent , censorious , vngovernable humor ; not omitting their injudiciousness , but forgetting all the while that these same injudicious people ( with all their other faults ) were once his electors , and are still his iudges ; suppose , that he tells the world , that for their ignorance , injudiciousness , pride and self-conceitedness , they are their grief and their shame ; that they are endanger'd by divisions , principally because the selfconceited part of the religious people will not be ruled by their pastors ; that it is they that tempt the papists to use fire and faggot that will not be ruled , nor kept in concord by the wisest , and holiest , and most self-denying ministers upon earth . notwithstanding all these very kind words of themselves , do not we think such people would call all this reviling , and reproaching the people of god , and say , that such men do malignantly oppose serious godliness as hypocrisie ; and let their lives be what they will , they do more hurt than good ; and therefore by mr. b's own rules , they are bound to seprate from the wisest , the holiest , the most self-denying ministers upon earth . which i think is sufficient for the present to shew the mischievous consequence of putting so great a power of judgment , and separation upon it into the hands of the people . sect. . but this is not all the encouragement to separation , which is given to the people , by their power of iudging , and withdrawing from their ministers ; for , . they insinuate , that the whole body of the conforming clergy is guilty of such faults , as the people may lawfully separate from them ; as will appear by these particulars . first , they make conformity it self to be a very scandalous thing ; and then tell the people over and over , it is no sin to separate from scandalous priests ; especially when the scandal is notorious , as it is in this case . mr. b. goes about to prove this , by many arguments , when he writes in the name of the party ; now let us see what judgment they pass upon conformity . in one place he saith , that the love of peace , and the fear of frightning any farther from parish communion than i desire ( as though such suggestions did not do it enough ) do oblige me to forbear so much as to describe or name the additional conformity ; and that sin which non-conformists fear , and fly from , which maketh it harder to us that desire it to draw many good people to communion with conformists than it was of old . no doubt of it , if you give such broad intimations as these are , what a horrible scandalous sin conformity is . nay , he maketh it an inexcusable sin , when he saith , in the preface to his plea , that more like truth hath been said for the lawfulness of anabaptistry , poligamy , drunkenness , stealing , and lying , in case of necessity , than any thing he ever yet read of all that he hath there described , i.e. full conformity . he chargeth us downright with lying , and by consequence with perjury , and tells me of tremendous aggravations of the sin of conformity ; among which are lying and perjury , and not only that , but drawing on our selves the guilt of many thousand perjuries ( by declaring , that the covenant doth not oblige . ) but i do not question , if mr. b. pleased , he could find out or as tremendous aggravations of the sin of separation . for never did any man lay more load than he , upon whatever he opposes , without considering how it may fall upon himself at last ; and how easie it is to return such heaps of aggravations . and it was well said by one of mr. b's . adversaries concerning him , that be the controversie what it will , he can make his adversary differ with him about the existence of god and christ , a heaven and hell. which i have found too true , by my experience in this case , for without any colour or pretence in the world that i know of , but only by declaring against separation , he tells me , that he is so far past doubt , on the other side , as that he thinks i overthrow all religion , and set up man in rebellion against god. but the worst is that he would make me say , which i never said or thought , that all publick worship is sinful , when forbidden : and then on he runs with a mighty torrent , daniel may go to the lions ; the martyrs , fathers , counsels , the vniversal church are all foolisher , than the meanest of his auditors . i wonder he did not give me tremendous aggravations of atheism and hobbism . for he doth in effect charge me with them ; for it follows , it 's strange that he can be sure , god's word is true , and yet be so sure , that mens laws are above it , and may suspend it . did i ever in my life say the least thing tending that way ? i abhor and detest such principles , as set mans laws above gods. and when i gave him the state of the controversie about separation , i supposed an agreement in all the substantials of religion , between the dissenting parties and our church . how then could he possibly infer from hence , that i set man's laws above gods ? the question is not , whether all publick worship be sinful , when forbidden ? but whether in a nation professing true religion , some publick worship may not be forbidden ? if not , then an universal , unlimited toleration of turks , iews , papists , socinians , ranters , &c. must follow . if some may be forbidden , then another question follows , viz. whether such publick worship , as may have an evil in it , antecedent to that prohibition , may not be forbidden ? viz. such as tends to idolatry , sedition , schism , &c. and if this be allowed , then it comes to this at last , whether such meetings are guilty of any of these faults ; and if they be , whether the magistrate so judging may not justly forbid them ? and this is the utmost that matter can be driven to ; which i here mention , to let the reader understand , what little cause there is to dread mr. b's aggravations of the sin of conformity ; which are built on as slight grounds as this heavy charge against me ; for the sake of which i shall hardly ever dread his aggravations more . but the sting of these aggravations follows . if the people think , ( though they should mistake ) that all the conformists are guilty of the like , can you wonder , if they prefer less guilty pastors to trust the conduct of their souls with ? now the true reason of separation is come out at last . our conformity is a horrible , scandalous sin with them , and therefore they must choose better pastors . is not this just the old brownists argument ? the ministry of the church of england is a corrupt and sinful ministery , and therefore we must not communicate with them , but choose more honest and faithful guides : but let me ask mr. b. supposing all this to be true , is it lawful to communicate with conformists or not ? if it be not lawful , then he condemns his own practice , and takes away occasional communion ; if it be lawful , how comes separation to be lawful , since , that is never lawful , but when it is necessary ? as it will be proved afterwards . sect. . . they make most of the present ministers of the church of england to be vsurpers ; and from such they say , they may lawfully separate . is it separation , saith mr. b. to refuse pastors that are vsurpers , and have no true power over them ? but who are these vsurpers among us , since we have a legal establishment , and we thought law and vsurpation contrary to each other ? but notwithstanding law , it is determin'd , first , all that come into the places of ejected ministers are vsurpers , at least to as many of the people , as do not consent to their coming in : how prove you , saith mr. b. that the relation of the ejected london-ministers and their flocks was dissolved , and that the succeeders , were true pastors to the non-consenting flocks ? when faithful pastors , saith he in his plea ( written in the name of the party , and by consent , as he saith , of many of his acquaintance ) are in possession , if a lawful magistrate cast them out ; and put others in their places of untried or suspected parts or fidelity . i. the princes imposition maketh not such true pastors of that church , before , or without the peoples consent . ii. nor will it alwayes bind the people to consent , and to forsake their former pastors , nor prove them schismaticks , because they do it not . the bottom of all this , is , they are vsurpers to whom the people do not consent in any particular parish ; although the whole nation in parliament consented to the passing of a law for removal of some pastors , and putting in of others . and what dangerous consequences there may be of such principles as these , i leave others to judge . for upon these grounds , when salomon deprived abiathar , and put zadok in his room ; any part of the people might have pleaded , they never consented to zadok 's coming in , and therefore he was their high-●riest still ; let salomon do what he would ; he could not dissolve the relation between them , without their own consent . for the question is not , whether abiathar did not deserve to be put out , but to whom it belonged to do it , whether to the king , or the people ? and whether any part of the people might still own that relation which he had before to them , without palpable disobedience and contempt of authority ? especially if the people had given their own consent , and the thing had been done not only by salomon , but by the states of israel ; as it was in our case . they who discern not the ill consequences of such assertions as to our government , have very little insight into affairs . for it follows , that a small part of the people may disown the publick acts of parliament , and choose other governors , to themselves in opposition to those established by law : and why they should not do it , upon an equal pretence in other cases , i do not understand . for there is no more colour for the peoples resuming their right , especially a small part against the whole , in one case then in the other . which makes me wonder at those who da●e call them vsurpers , who enjoy their places by the same laws , that any men do enjoy their estates . and they who assert , that the people are bound notwithstanding the laws to adhere to their former pastors , as mr. a. doth , who saith , they judge it their unquestionable duty to abide in that relation to their ejected pastors , do not only assert a power in a handful of people to act against established laws , passed by general consent in parliament ; but overthrow the settlement of our church upon the reformation . for , the papists then had the very same plea , that these men have now , v●z . that the magistrate could not dissolve the relation between their former church guides and them : and therefor● notwithstanding acts of parliament , they were still hound to adhere to them . for the magistrate had no power in such matters , and the real schism was to withdraw from those guides ; just as mr. a. speaks concerning the ejected ministers . so much do these men , in pursuing the interests of their parties , overthrow the principles of the reformation . for either the magistrate hath a power to silence some ministers , and to put others in their places , or he hath none : if he hath none , then , what becomes of the iustice of the reformation , when the popish bishops and priests were ejected , and others put into their places ? if they say , he hath a just power in some cases , but not in theirs . is not this a plea common to all ? for whoever thought themselves justly ejected ? or that they did any thing which deserved so severe a punishment ? what then is to be done in this case , if men think themselves unjustly cast out ? the old non-conformists said , they ought to sit down quietly ; with this satisfaction , that there were others to preach the word of god soundly , although they did not . they might by joyning in their private capacities in communion with our churches , and drawing the people to it by their example and encouragement , have done more good both to the people and to this church , than i fear their publick preaching in opposition to the laws hath done to either ▪ but if they go upon such principles ●s these , that the magistrate had no rightful power to eject them , that others are vsurpers who come in their places , that the people are still bound to own them in their former relation notwithstanding the laws , and that 't is schism to separate from them , notwithstanding that they confess the true religion is maintained and preached in our publick assemblies , i leave it to others to determine how consistent such principles are with the submission men owe to government , or that peaceable behaviour which becometh christians . this i the rather insist upon , because i find not only mr. b. and mr. a. asserting it , but that it is made the standing plea for the necessity of the present separation , among those who do not hold all communion with our churches unlawful . so the latest of my answerers makes a question , whether they can be said to erect new churches , or proceed to the forming of separate congregations , who were true ministers , and had their congregations before others came into their places ? if they had done nothing worthy of ejection , or exclusion from their ministry , whether they have not still a right to exercise their function . and consequently , whether others may not as justly be said to draw away their people from them , as they are charged with the same practice ? there is not one word in all this plea but might have equally served the papists in the beginning of the reformation . for the law signifies nothing with them in any case where themselves are concerned , if ministers be ejected without or against law , they who come into their places are no usurpers ; and if they are cast out by law , they that succeed them are usurpers ; so that the law is always the least thing in their consideration . secondly , all those who come into any pastoral charge , whether bishops by vertue of the kings nomination , or others by the presentation of patrons , are vsurpers , unless the people be pleased to give their free consent ; and if they do it not , they may lawfully withdraw from them . for , saith mr. b. the people have an antecedent right to consent , which none can take from them . and he saith , he hath proved it by many canons , that he was no bishop , that was not chosen by the clergy and the people ; or came in without the peoples consent . nay , if they have the consent of some , and not of the greater part , those who did not consent , may proceed to choose another bishop , if mr. b. say true . for these are his words . if a diocess have a thousand or , or parish pastors , and a hundred thousand or a million of people ( or or , as ye will suppose ) and if only a dozen or presbyters , and a thousand people ( or none ) chuse the bishop , this is not the election or consent of the diocesan church ; nor is it schism for twenty thousand to go against the votes of two thousand . therefore if they have so much the advantage in polling , as mr. a. suggests , there is nothing hinders them , but that in spite of laws , they may proceed to the choice of new bishops , and new pastors of churches , wherever they think they can make the majority . for this is an inherent and unalterable right in the people , say they , to choose their own pastors . again , saith mr. b. in the name of the party in his plea , if bishops that have no better a foundation , i.e. that come in by the kings nomination , and not by the majority of the people , shall impose inferior pastors or presbyters on the parish churches , and command the peoples acceptance and obe●●●nce , i.e. if they give them institution upon a patrons presentation , the people are not bound to accept and obey them by any authority that is in that command as such ; nor is it schism to disobey it , no more than it is treason to reject the vsurper of a kingdom . it is plain then , all bishops of the kings nomination , all ministers presented by patrons are meer vsurpers : the people may give them a good title if they please ; but they are not to blame if they do it not . for in them , mr. b. saith , the chief power is , and sometimes he tells them , they are bound to separate ; however , while they do not consent , they are no churches , which they are set over ; and it is no schism so to pronounce them ; nor to deny them communion proper to a church . is not this an excellent plea for peace ; and the true and only way of concord , which lays the foundation for all imaginable disorders and confusions , only that they might have some pretence for their present separation ? sect. . . suppose the bishops and clergy have gained the consent ( implicit at least ) of the people , and so are no vsurpers , yet if they be persecutors , or ithacian prelatists , i.e. if they either act towards , or approve of the silencing non-conformists , the people may separate from them . when mr. b. wrote the defence of his book , called , the cure of divisions , to satisfie the people who were much displeased with him for it ; one of the material questions , he asks about his book , is , is there a word to perswade you to communion with persecutors ? as though that had been an unpardonable crime . in the plea he saith , if any excommunicate persons for not complying with them in sin , i.e. conformity , but also prosecute them with mulcts , imprisonments , banishments , or other prosecution , to force them to transgress , this were yet more heinously aggravated schism : and therefore it is no sin to separate from such . and how easily men are drawn in to the guilt of this persecution , appears by the example he makes of me , for although i expresly set aside the case of ministers , and declared , i intended only to speak of lay-communion ; yet he charges me with engaging my self in the silencing design . and by such consequences , all that speak against separation may be separated from , as persecuters , and ithacian prelatists . sect. . . as long as they suppose the terms of our communion to be sinful , they say , the schism doth not lye on those that separate , but on those that do impose such terms ; and therefore they may lawfully separate from such imposers . this is the most colourable plea hath been yet used by them . but in this case , we must distinguish between terms of communion plainly and in themselves sinful ; and such which are only fancied to be so through prejudice , or wilful ignorance , or error of conscience . that there is a real distinction between these two , is evident ; and that it ought to be considered in this case , appears from hence , that else there can be no sinful separation under an erroneous conscience . as suppose some men should think that preaching by an hour-glass , and much more praying by one , was a stinting of the spirit in point of time , as praying by a form was in point of words ; and all men should be required to begin the publick worship at such an hour , and so end at such an hour ; time being a necessary circumstance , our brethren grant , that the magistrate or church may lawfully determine it . here is then a lawful imposition ; and yet the quakers may really judge it to be sinful ; and declare they cannot communicate unless this sinful imposition be removed ; for it is against their consciences to have the spirit limited to any certain time ; on whose side doth the schism lie in this case ? not on the imposers , because they grant such an imposition lawful ; therefore it must lie on those that separate , although they judge such terms of communion sinful . if therefore the determination of other things not forbidden be really as much in the magistrates and churches power , as the necessary circumstances of time and place , &c. then mens apprehending such terms of communion to be sinful will not hinder the guilt of separation from lying on their side , and not on the imposers . because it is to be supposed . that where there is no plain prohibition , men may with ordinary care and judgment , satisfie themselves of the lawfulness of things required . as for instance , when the church of rome imposeth the worship of images , we have the plain prohibition of the second commandment to prove that it is really a sinful condition of communion ; but when our church requireth the constant use of a liturgy , and ceremonies , which are now pleaded as sinful conditions of communion , where is the prohibition ? in the same second commandment say some . i desire them to read it over to me . they do so . where , say i , are the words that forbid a liturgy , or ceremonies ? i am mistaken , they tell me , it is not in the words , but in the sense . i ask , how we should come by the sense , but from the words ? yes , they say , there are certain rules for interpreting the commandments . are they divine or human ? where are they to be found ? what are those rules ? one , they say , is , that where any thing is forbidden , something is commanded . so say i , there is here a command to worship god without an image . what is there more ? yes , say they , ( . ) that we must not worship god with our own inventions ; now liturgies and ceremonies are mens inventions ▪ but , i say , no inventions are condemned in the worship of god , but such as god himself hath somewhere forbidden ; but he hath no where forbidden these . and human inventions are forbidden in this commandment in the worship of god ; but then ( ) they are such inventions which go about to represent god , and so to disparage him ; and no other inventions are to be understood , than the reason of the law doth extend to , i.e. not such which are consistent with the spiritual and invisible nature of god. ( . ) they are not such as do relate to the manner or form of worship , supposing the worship it self be performed in a way agreeable to the divine nature and law. for otherwise all use of mens inventions , as to preaching , or reading , or interpreting scripture , would be forbidden . and then this interpretation of the second commandment would be unlawful , because it is a meer invention of men ; as much as liturgies , or ceremonies . by this we see , what stretching and forcing of scripture there must be , to make liturgies or ceremonies unlawful terms of communion ; and that men must first blind and fetter their minds by certain prejudices of education , or reading only one sort of books , and taking some things for granted which they ought not , before they can esteem the terms of communion required by our church to be sinful : and therefore the schism doth not lye on the imposers side , but upon those who suffer themselves first to be so easily deluded , and then separate from our church upon it . but there is another plain instance in this case , wherein our brethren themselves will not allow the schism to lie on the imposers side ; and that is of those who deny the lawfulness of infant-baptism . many of whom pretend to do it with as much sincerity and impartiality , as any of our brethren can deny the lawfulness of liturgy or ceremonies : if they break communion rather than allow what they judge to be sinful , on whose side doth the schism lie , on theirs that require the allowance of it , as a condition of communion , or not ? if on the imposers side , they must condemn themselves , who blame the anabaptists for their separation . and so did fr. iohnson , and so did the new-england churches . from whence it appears , that they do all agree , that where men through mistake do judge those to be sinful terms of communion which are not , the guilt of schism doth not lie on the imposers side , but on those that separate . therefore , this matter of schism cannot be ended by the plea of conscience judging the conditions to be sinful , but by evident and convincing proofs that they are so ; but till these are brought forth , which never yet were , or ever will be , they must bear the blame of the schism , if they separate on these accounts . thus i have faithfully represented the principles of those who allow occasional presence in our churches , rather than communion with them ; which i have discover'd to be of that nature , as leads men to the greatest separation . sect. . there are others who deal more openly and ingenuously , and so need the less pains to discover their minds , and those are , ii. such who do in terms assert all acts of communion with our churches to be unlawful . but there is a difference among these ; for , first , some allow hearing sermons in our publick assemblies , and joyning in the pulpit prayers ; but not in the liturgy , or any proper act of church-communion . this i have shewed , was the opinion of robinson , and the new-england churches ; and was lately owned by mr. ph. nye , who wrote a discourse about it , and answered all objections . yea , he goes so far , as to own the publick preaching , as a great blessing to the nation ; and he thinks , the dissenters and their families are bound to frequent , ( as they have liberty and opportunity ) the more publick and national ministry . but towards the end of his treatise he confesses the generality of their people , to be of another opinion ; which he imputes to the activity of the iesuits among them ; and he was a very sagacious man. secondly , others hold it unlawful to joyn with our churches in any acts of publick worship . and some are arrived to that height , that one of my answerers confesseth , that they refuse to hear him , because he owns many parochial churches to be true churches . it seems then , they not only think it unlawful to hear us , but to hear those who think it lawful ; and the next step will be to separate from those who do not separate from them , that own many parochial churches to be true churches . several books have been published to prove it unlawful to hear our ministers preach : and these proceed upon the old arguments of the former separatists ; as may be seen at large in a book called ierubbaal : whose author goes about to prove our worship idolatry , and our ministers antichristian ; which mr. nye was so far from owning , that he grants our ministry to be true and lawful , and utterly denies it to be anti-christian ; because the articles of our religion , to which our ministers are to conform their instructions , are orthodox , and framed for the casting and keeping out of popery . sect. . the several principles of our dissenters being thus laid down , the state of the present controversie , as to separation from our communion , will soon appear . and any one may now discern , . that i do not mean bare local separation . for mr. b. puts this in the front of his quaere's ; do you think , that he is a separatist that meeteth not in the same parish church with you ? no ; i do assure him , provided that he elsewhere joyns with our churches as a member of them ; and doth not think himself bound to prefer the separate meetings , as having a purer way of worship , and ordinarily to frequent them for more gospel-administrations . and so much may satisfie mr. a. too , who , after his trifling manner , talks of a bellum parochiale , as though men were so weak to charge one another with separation because they meet in different parishes ; but as to the gird he gives about a bellum episcopale , i desire him only to look into the evangelium armatum for an answer to it . . i do not mean by separation any difference in doctrine , not determin'd by our church , upon which men do not proceed to divide from the communion of it : and i wonder , who ever did . but mr. b. is pleased to make another quaere about it . to this i shall answer him in mr. hales his words : while the controversies in holland about praedestination , went no farther th●n the pen-combats , the schism was all that while unhatcht ; but assoon as one party swept an old cloyster , and by a pretty art made it a church , by putting a new pulpit in it for the separating party there to meet , that which was before a controversie became a formal schism . . by separation i do not mean any difference in modes of worship allowed by the church in whose communion we live . this is to answer mr. b's . quaere concerning the difference between cathedral and parochial churches ; and publick and private administrations of sacraments . but this sticks much with mr. a. who takes his hints from mr. b. which he cooks and dresses after his facetious manner , that they may go off the better with the common people . and a very pleasant representation he endeavors to make of the difference of the cathedral service from that in countrey parishes . but what is all this to the purpose ? if the same man puts on finer clothes at london , than he wears in the countrey , is he not the same man for all that ? are not david's psalms the same , whether they be sung , or said ? or whether sung in a cathedral tune , or as set by a parish clerk ? that which only looks like argument ( and my business is to mind nothing else ; possibly others may call him to an account for his unbecoming way of writing ) that i say which looks like argument is , that some things are done without rules in our parish churches , as the universal practice of singing psalms in hopkins and sternholds metre ; and therefore they may do things without rules and yet not be guilty of separation . this proceeds upon a mistake , for in the first establishment of the liturgy upon the reformation under edward the vi. allowance was made for the use of the psalms , as they were to be sung in churches distinct from the use of them as part of the liturgy ; and from thence that custom hath been so universally practised . but suppose there are some customs receiv'd without rules ; suppose there are some different customs among us ; what is this , to the denying the lawfulness of constant communion with our churches ? to the choosing of new pastors ? and sitting down , as he speaks , with purer administrations ? all which this man owns in his book , as their avowed principles and practices ; and yet hath the confidence to parallel their separation from our church , with the different modes of worship among our selves . he must have a very mean opinion of mens understandings , that thinks to deceive them in so gross a manner . . by separation i do not understand a meer difference as to the way of worship , which the members of foreign churches are here permitted to enjoy . for they do not break off from the communion of our churches ; but have certain priviledges allowed them , as acting under the rules of those churches from whence they came . but what have we to do to judge the members of other reformed churches ? our business is with those who being baptized in this church , and living under the rules and government of it ; either renounce the membership they once had in it , or avoid communion with it as members , and joyn with other societies set up in opposition to this communion . yet this matter about the foreign churches mr. b. mentions again and again ; as though their case could be thought alike , who never departed from ours , but only continue in the communion of their own churches . . i do not charge every disobedience to the king and laws and canons in matters of religion , government and worship with the guilt of separation . for although a man may be guilty of culpable disobedience in breaking the commands of authority , and the orders of the church he lives in ; yet if he continues in all acts of communion with our church , and draws not others from it upon mere pretence of greater purity of worship , and better means of edification , i do not charge such a one with schism . . i do not charge those with separation , who under idolatrous , or arian princes did keep up the exercise of true religion though against the will of the magistrate . but what is this to our case , where the true religion is acknowledged , and the true doctrine of faith owned by the dissenters themselves , who break off communion with our churches . wherefore then doth mr. b. make so many quaeres , about the case of those who lived under heathen persecutors ? or the arian emperors , or idolatorous princes ? i hope , he did not mean to parallel their own case with theirs ; for , what horrible reflection would this be upon our government , and the protestant religion established among us ? to what end doth he mention valens and hunericus that cut out of the preachers tongues , and several other unbecoming insinuations ? when god be thanked , we live under a most merciful prince , and have the true doctrine of the gospel among us , and may have it still continued , if mens great ingratitude , as well as other crying sins , do not provoke god justly to deprive us of it . what need was there , of letting fall any passages tending this way ? when i told him in the very state of the question , that all our dispute was , whether the upholding separate meetings for divine worship , where the doctrine established , and the substantial parts of worship are acknowledged to be agreeable to the word of god , be a sinful separation or not ? why is this dissembled and passed over ? and the worst cases imaginable supposed , in stead of that which is really theirs ? if i could defend a cause by no other means , i think common ingenuity , the honor of our prince and nation , and of the protestant religion professed among us , would make me give it over . sect. . and for the same reasons , in the management of this debate , i resolve to keep to the true state of the question , as it is laid down ; and to make good the charge of separation , i. against those who hold occasional communion with our church to be lawful in some parts of worship ; but deny constant communion to be a duty . ii. against those who deny any communion with our church to be lawful ; although they agree with us in the substantial of religion . . against those who hold occasional communion to be lawful with our church in some parts of worship , but deny constant communion to be a duty . to overthrow this principle , i shall prove these two things , . that bare occasional communion doth not excuse from the guilt of separation . . that as far as occasional communion with our church is allowed to be lawful , constant communion is a duty . . that bare occasional communion doth not excuse from the guilt of separation . which will appear by these things , first . bare occasional communion makes no man the member of a church . this term of occasional communion , as far as i can find , was invented by the dissenting brethren to give satisfaction to the presbyterians , who charged them with brownism : to avoid this charge , they declared , that the brownists held all communion with our parochial churches unlawful , which they did not ; for , said they , we can occasionally communicate with you ; but this gave no manner of satisfaction to the other pary , as long as they upheld separate congregations , with whom they would constantly communicate ; and accounted those their churches , with whom they did joyn as members of the same body . but if notwithstanding this lawfulness of occasional communion with our churches , they joyned with other societies in strict and constant communion ; it was a plain argument they apprehended something so bad or defective in our churches , that they could not joyn as members with them ; and because they saw a necessity of joyning with some churches as members , they pleaded for separate congregations . and so , must all those do , who think it their duty to be members of any churches at all ; and not follow grotius his example , in suspending communion from all churches . which is a principle i do not find any of our dissenting brethren willing to own . although mr. b. declares , that he and some others own themselves to be pastors to no churches ; that he never gather'd a church ; that he baptized none in years ; and gave the lords supper to none in years . i desire to know , what church mr. b. hath been of all this time . for as to our churches , he declares , that he thinks it lawful to communicate with us occasionally ; but not as churches ( for he thinks we want an essential part , viz. a pastor with episcopal power , as appears before ) but as oratories ; and so he renounces communion with our churches as churches ; and for other churches , he saith he hath gathered none , he hath administred sacraments to none in years ; and if he hath not joyned as a member in constant communion with any separate church , he hath been so long a member of no church at all . it is true , he hath pray'd occasionally , and receiv'd the sacrament occasionally in our oratories , but not as a member of our churches ; he hath preached occasionally to separate congregations , but he hath gather●d no church , he hath administred no sacraments for years together . so that he hath prayed occasionally in one place , and preached occasionally in another , but hath had no communion as member of a church any where . but i wonder , how any man could think such a necessity lay upon him to preach , that woe was unto him if he did not ; and yet apprehend none to administer the sacraments for so long together ; none , to joyn himself as a member to any church . is it possible for him to think it sacriledge not to preach ; and to think it no fault , not to give the sacraments to others , nor to receive one of them himself as a communicant with a church ? was there not the same devotedness , in ordination to the faithful administration of sacraments , as to preaching the gospel ? was not the same authority , the same charge as to both of them ? was there not the same promise and engagement to give faithful diligence to minister the doctrine and sacraments ? is there an indispensable obligation to do one part of your duty , and none at all to the other ? is this possible , to perswade impartial men , that for years together you thought your self bound to preach against the laws ; and yet never thought your self bound to do that , which you were as solemnly obliged to do as the other ? mr. b. knows very well in church-history , that presbyters were rarely allowed to preach , and not without leave from the bishop , and that in some of the churches he most esteems too ; viz. the african ; but they were constantly bound to administer the sacraments ; so that , if one obligation were stricter than the other , that was so which mr. b. dispensed with himself in , for years together ; and why he might not as well in the other , is not easie to understand . however , why all this while , no constant communicant with any church ? what , no church among us fit for him to be a member of ? no obligation upon a christian to that , equal to the necessity of preaching ? these things must seem very strange , to those who judge of christian obligations , by the scripture , and the vniversal sense and practice of the christian church in the best and purest ages . to what purpose is it to dispute about the true notion of an instituted church for personal presential communion ; if men can live for years together without joyning in communion with any such church ? what was this communion intended for ? the antient churches at this rate , might easily be capacious enough for their members , if some never joyned with them in so long a time . but he hath communicated occasionally with us : yes , to shew , what defective and tolerable churches he can communicate with , but not as a member , as himself declares ; and this occasional communion makes him none . for mr. a. saith , their occasional communion with us , is but like any of our occasional communion with them : or occasional hearing of a weak preacher ; or occasional going to a popish chappel ; which no one imagines makes the persons members of such congregations . if therefore men use this occasional communion more than once or twice , or ten or twenty times , as long as they declare it is only occasional communion , it makes them no members of our churches ; for that obliges them to fixed and constant communion . secondly , they that have fixed and constant communion in a church gathered out of another , are in a state of separation from the church out of which it is gathered , although they may be occasionally present in it . now , if men who think our constant communion unlawful , do judge themselves bound to joyn together in another society for purer administrations , as mr. a. speaks , and to choose new pastors ; this is gathering new churches ; and consequently is a plain separation from those churches out of which they are gather'd . the author of the letter out of the country speaks plainly in this matter . such , saith he , of the dissenting ministers , as have most openly declared for communicating at some times with some of the parochial churches ; have also declared their judgment of the lawfulness and necessity of preaching and hearing , and doing other religious duties in other congregations also . if this be true , as no doubt that gentleman well understands their principles , then we see plainly a separation owned , notwithstanding the occasional communion with our churches . for , here is not only a lawfulness , but a necessity asserted of joyning in separate congregations , for preaching , hearing , and other religious duties . and here are all the parts necessary for making new churches , pastors , people , and joyning together for religious worship , in a way separate from our assemblies . for although they allow the lawfulness of occasional communicating with some of them ; yet they are so far from allowing constant communion , that they assert a necessity of separate congregations for divine worship ; and what was there more then this which the old separatists held ? for when they first published the reasons of their separation , which giffard answered , they laid down the grounds of their dissatisfaction with our assemblies ; from whence they inferred the necessity of separation ; and then declare , that they only sought the fellowship and communion of gods faithful servants ; and by the direction of his holy spirit to proceed to a choice of new pastors ; with whom they might joyn , in all the ordinances of christ. and what is there in this different , from what must follow from the principles of those , who assert the necessity of joyning in other congregations distinct and separate from our assemblies for the performance of religious duties ? and if there be a necessity of separation , as this gentleman tells us they generally hold , that seem most moderate , the holding the lawfulness of occasional communion , will not excuse them from the guilt of the other . for , as long as the necessity of separation was maintained , the other was alwayes accounted a less material dispute , and some held one way and some another . and for this occasional communion the same author tells us , that he looks upon it , but as drinking a single glass of wine , or of water , against his own inclination , to a person out of civility ; when he is not for any mans pleasure to destroy his health by tying himself to drink nothing else . it seems then , this occasional communion is a meer complement to our churches , wherein they force themselves to a dangerous piece of civility much against their own inclinations ; but they account constant communion a thing pernicious to their souls , as the other is destructive to their health . so that this salvo cannot excuse them from the guilt of separation . sect. . . that as far as occasional communion is lawful , constant communion is a duty . this the former gentleman wonders at me if i think a good consequence . mr. a. brings several instances to prove , that we allow occasional communion to be lawful , where constant is no duty ; as with other parish churches , upon a iourney , at a lecture , &c. but who ever question'd the lawfulness of occasional communion with churches of the same constitution ; or thought a man was bound to be always of that church , where he goes to hear a lecture , &c. but the question is , about the lawfulness of separation , where occasional commuon is allowed to be lawful . for a man is not said to separate from every church , where he forbears or ceases to have communion ; but only from that church , with which he is obliged to hold communion , and yet withdraws from it . and it is a wonder to me , none of my friends ( my adversaries i am loth to call them ) could discern this . it is lawful , saith mr. b. to have communion with the french , dutch , or greek church , must constant communion therefore with them be a duty ? yes , if he were obliged to be a member of those churches , and thought it lawful to communicate some times , constant communion would be a duty . but because this seems so hard to be understood , i will therefore undertake to prove it , by these two arguments . first , from the general obligation upon christians , to use all lawful means for preserving the peace and vnity of the church . secondly , from the particular force of that text , philipp . . . as far as you have already attained walk by the same rule , &c. first , from the general obligation upon christians to use all lawful means for preserving the peace and unity of the church . if it be possible , saith st. paul , as much as lies in you live peaceably with all men. now i ask , if there be not as great an obligation at least , upon christians to preserve peace in the church , as with all men ? and they are bound to that , as far as possible , and as much as lies in them . and is not that possible and lies in them to do , which they acknowledge lawful to be done , and can do at some times ? what admirable arguments are there to peace and vnity among christians ? what divine enforcements of them on the consciences of men in the writings of christ and his apostles ? and cannot these prevail with men to do that , which they think in their consciences they may lawfully do , towards joyning in communion with us ? this i am perswaded , is one of the provoking sins of the non-conformists , that they have been so backward in doing , what they were convinced they might have done , with a good conscience . when they were earnestly pressed to it by those in authority , they refused it ; and they have been more and more backward ever since , till now they seem generally resolved , either to break all in pieces , or to persist in separation . mr. b. indeed very honestly moved them . to consider how far it was lawful , or their duty to communicate with the parish churches in the liturgy and sacraments ; and brought many arguments to prove it lawful ; and no one of the brethren seemed to dissent : but observe the answer mr. a. makes to this ; i. e. saith he , they did not enter their several protestations , nor formally declare against the reasons of their brother ; like wise and wary persons they would advise upon them . and so they have been advising and considering ever since , till with great wisdom and wariness they are dropt into separation before they were aware of it ; and the meer necessity of defending their own practices , makes them espouse these principles . such another meeting mr. b. saith , they had after the plague and fire , at which they agreed , that communion with our church was in it self lawful and good . here mr. a. charges me for being tardy , and wronging the relator , by leaving out the most considerable words of the sentence , viz. when it would not do more harm than good . and upon this he expatiates about the wayes when it may do more harm than good ; whereas if the reader please to examine the place , he will find , i did consider the force of those words ; when i put it , that they resolved it to be lawful in it self ; although some circumstances might hinder their present doing it . for they declared , that it was in it self lawful and meet ; but the circumstances of that time , did make them think it might do more harm than good ; and therefore it is said , they delaid for a fitter opportunity , which makes it clear , they were then resolved upon the lawfulness of the thing . but that opportunity hath never hapned since ; and so they are now come to plead against the practice of it ; as mr. a. plainly doth ; by such reasons as these . communion with our churches will then do more harm than good , . when such communion shall perswade the parish churches , that their frame is eligible and not only tolerable . as though separation were more eligible , than a communion that is lawful and tolerable ; and schism were not more intolerable , than communion with a tolerable church . what will not men say in defence of their own practice ? was ever schism made so light a matter of , and the peace and vnity of christians valued at so low a rate ; that for the prevention of the one , and the preservation of the other , a thing that is lawful may not be done , if there be any danger that what is only tolerable should be mistaken for more eligible ? as if all the mischiefs of schism and division in the church , were not fit to be put in the ballance , against such a horrible and monstrous inconvenience . methinks , it were better sometimes to be wise and considerate , than always thus subtil and witty against the common sence , and reason of mankind . . when others shall thereby be thought obliged to separate from purer churches , i. e. be drawn off from their separation . . when it will harden the papists . as though their divisions did not do it ten thousand times more . . when it shall notably prejudice the christian religion in general . yes , no doubt the cure of divisions would do so . by these particulars , it appears , that he thinks them not obliged to do what lawfully they can do . yet at last , he saith , he tells us , as much is done , as their consciences will permit them . say you so ? is it indeed come to this ? will none of your consciences now permit you either to come to the liturgy , or to make use of any parts of it , in your own meetings ? how often hath mr. b. told the world , that you stuck not at set-forms , nor at the vse of the liturgy , provided some exceptionable passages were alter'd in it ? did not mr. b. declare at his meeting , publickly , in a writing on purpose , that they did not meet under any colour , or pretence of any religious exercise in other manner , than according to the liturgy and practice of the church of england , and were he able he would accordingly read himself ? is this observed in any one meeting in london , or through england ? then certainly , there are some who do not , what they think they lawfully may do towards communion with us . and mr. b. saith in the beginning of his late plea , that they never made one motion for presbytery , or against liturgies ; and these words are spoken in the name of the whole party called presbyterians . and since that , mr. b. saith , they did come to an agreement , wherein the constant vse of the liturgy , with some alterations , was required . and are we now told , that all that can lawfully be done is done ? mr. b. indeed acts agreeably to his principles , in coming to our liturgy ; but where are all the rest ? and , which of them reads what they think lawful at their own assemblies ? do they not hereby discover , that they are more afraid of losing their people , who force them to comply with their humors , than careful to do , what they judge lawful , towards communion with our church ? sect. . but whence comes it to pass , that any who think occasional communion with us to be lawful , should not think themselves obliged to constant communion ? from what grounds come they to practise occasional communion ? is it from the love of peace and concord , as mr. b. saith ? that is a good ground so far , as it goes , but will it not carry a man farther , if he pursue it , as he ought to do ? what love of concord is this to be occasionally present at our churches , and at the same time to declare , that there is greater purity of worship , and better means of edification in separate congregations ? the one can never draw men so much to the love of concord , as the other doth incourage them in the principles of separation . but , if there be an obligation upon men to communicate with the church they live in , notwithstanding the defects and corruptions of it , that obligation can never be discharged by meer occasional presence at some times , and in some acts of worship ; for , saith mr. ball , to use one ordinance , and not another , is to make a schism in the church . the only example produced to justify such occasional communion with defective churches , is that our blessed saviour did communicate after that manner in the iewish synagogues and temple . but this is so far from being true , that the old separatists granted , that our lord communicated with the iewish church in gods ordinances , living and dying a member thereof ; and from thence they prove , that the iewish church had a right constitution in our saviours time . and did not he declare , that he came not to dissolve the law , but to fulfill it ? and that he complyed with iohn 's baptism , because he was to fulfill all righteousness ? did he not go up to the feasts at ierusalem , as a member of the iewish church , and frequent the synagogues ? even at the feast of dedication , though not instituted by the law , he was present , as other iews were . yea , did he not express more than ordinary zeal , for purifying the outward parts of the temple , because it was to be a house of prayer for all nations ? was not this to shew mens obligation to come and worship there , as well , as that the place was to be kept sacred for that use ? and , doth not the apostle expresly say , that he was made under the law ? where is there the least ground in scripture , to intimate , that christ only kept occasional , and not constant communion with the iewish church ? what part of worship did he ever withdraw from ? did he not command his disciples to go hear the scribes and pharisees , because they sate in moses chair ? where did he ever bid them go thither , when they could have no better ; but when they could to be sure to prefer the purer way of worship , and better means of edification ? was not his own doctrine incomparably beyond theirs ? is there any pretence for greater edification now , to be mention'd with what the disciples had , to forsake the iewish assemblies , for the love of christ 's own teaching ? yet he would not have them to do that , out of the regard he had to the publick worship and teaching . our saviour himself did only teach his disciples occasionally , and at certain seasons ; but their constant communion was with the iewish assemblies . and so it was after his passion , till the holy ghost fe●l upon them , and they were then imploy'd to gather and form a new church ; which was not done before ; and thence the author of the ordinary glosse observes ; that we never read of christ 's praying together , with his disciples ( unless perhaps at his transfiguration with three of his disciples ) although we often read of his praying alone . so that no example can be mention'd , which is more directly contrary to the practice of separation upon the present grounds , than that of our blessed saviour's ; which ought to be in stead of all others to us . sect. . . i argue , from the particular force of that text , phil. . . as far , as we have already attained , let us walk by the same rule , let us mind the same things . from whence it appears evident , that men ought to go as far as they can , towards vniformity ; and not to forbear doing any thing , which they lawfully may do towards peace and vnity . to take off the force of the argument from this place , several answers have been given , which i shall now remove ; so that the strength of it may appear to remain , notwithstanding all the attempts which have been made to weaken it . some say , that the apostles words are to be understood of the different attainments christians had in knowledge , and the different conceptions and opinions which they had concerning the truths of the gospel . thus dr. o. understands the text ; whose sence is somewhat obscurely and intricately expressed ; but as far as i can apprehend his meaning , he makes this to be the apostles ; viz. i. that although the best christians in this life cannot attain to a full measure and perfection in the comprehension of the truths of the gospel , or the enjoyment of the things contained in them ; yet they ought to be pressing continually after it . ii. that in the common pursuit of this design , it is not to be supposed , but the men will come to different attainments , have different measures of light and knowledge , yea and different conceptions , or opinions about these things . iii. that in this difference of opinions , those who differ'd from others should wait on the teachings of god , in that use of the means of instruction which they enjoy'd . iv. that as to their duty in common to each other , as far as they had attained , they should walk by the same rule , namely , which he had now laid down , and mind the same things as he had enjoyned them . from whence he infers , that these words are so far from being a foundation to charge them with schism , who agreeing in the substance of the doctrine of the gospel , do yet dissent from others , in some things ; that it enjoyns a mutual forbearance towards those who are differently minded . and again , he saith , the advice st. paul gives to both parties , is , that whereunto they have attained , wherein they do agree , which were all those principles of faith and obedience which were necessary to their acceptance with god , they should walk by the same rule , and mind the same things , that is , forbearing one another in the things wherein they differ ; which , saith he , is the substance of what is pleaded for by the non-conformists . for the clearing of this matter , there are three things to be debated , . whether the apostle speaks of different opinions , or different practises ? . whether the rule he gives be mutual forbearance ? . how far the apostles rule , hath an influence on our present case ? first , whether the apostle speaks of different opinions , or of different practises ? for the right understanding of this , we must strictly attend to the apostles scope and design . it is most evident that the apostle began this discourse with a caution against the teachers of the circumcision , vers . beware of dogs , beware of evil workers , beware of the concision . but speaking so reproachfully of them , he shews in the next words , that every thing that was excellent in the design of the law , was accomplished in the gospel ; and so he proceeds to declare , how justly he was brought to a disesteem of the greatest priviledges of the law , in comparison with the things revealed by the gospel , which shews , that the apostle had still an eye to these false teachers , who were very busie in disturbing the peace of the churches , and drawing disciples after them , pleading the necessity of observing the law ; and dividing the christians into different communions on that account , as appears by their proceedings at antioch , where they did separate themselves from the gentile christians , and st. peter for a time complyed with them . if such as these had not been busie at philippi ( where it appears that iews inhabited ) what need st. paul give so much caution against them ? what need all this dispute concerning the priviledges of the law ? if it be allowed , that they were there carrying on the same designs , which they did in other churches , then it follows , he had great reason to perswade them to vnity so earnestly , as he doth , philip. . , . and to give so much caution against them ; and to represent the great excellencies of the gospel above the law ; which being done , the apostle after his usual method , makes a digression , concerning himself , viz. how far short he thought himself of what he aimed at , and yet with what earnestness he pressed forward , toward christian perfection ; making no longer any account of legal priviledges . which i take to be his meaning , when he saith , forgetting the things which are behind i press forward , &c. so st. hierome understands it , legis obliviscens ad perfecta evangelii praecepta me teneo . forgetting the law , i keep to the precepts of the gospel . this being understood , the apostles sence naturally follows , according to his former design ; let us therefore , as many as are arrived to this height of christianity ( so the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used , cor. . . ephes. . . coloss. . . heb. . . ) agree in pursuing our main end . but then comes the case of those , who were not so fully satisfied in this matter of the law ; there being many and plausible arguments on their side ; well , saith the apostle , if they are doubtful , i advise them however , not to hearken to these false teachers , for they make nothing but faction and divisions among you , wait patiently upon god , which is the best means , for your satisfaction . if any be otherwise minded , god shall reveal even this unto you , i. e. saith beza in his paraphrase , if any yet doubt of the laying aside of the law , let them make no disturbance in the church about it . and so erasmus saith , it ought to be understood of the iudaizing christians , who did not yet discern , that the ceremonial law was to be abolished , however , saith he , they ought not to break the peace of the church for it . but , what sence can dr. o. here put upon the being otherwise minded : otherwise than what ? as many as be perfect be thus minded , to pursue your main end ; but , if any be otherwise minded ; did any think they ought not to mind chiefly their great end ? that is incredible ; therefore the apostle must be understood of somewhat , about which there were then very different apprehensions ; and that it is certain there were about the law among the christians then . the apostle therefore doth not speak of any kind of different apprehensions christians might fall into ; but of such as were at that time among them ; and so one copy reads it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if hitherto ye have been otherwise minded ; they had no difference concerning the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the things before them ; viz. the happiness of the gospel , but they had concerning the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the things behind , viz. the force and obligation of the law. and since this difference did not rest barely in opinion , but was carried on so far , as to break the peace of the church about it ; it appears to have been no bare difference of opinions , but such as related to the peace and communion of christians . secondly , whether the rule which the apostle layes down , be only a rule of mutual forbearance ? nevertheless , whereto we have already attained , let us walk by the same rule , let us mind the same things . the sence according to dr. o. is this , that those who are agreed in the stubstantials of religion , should go on and do their duty without regarding lesser differences . which is a sence very uncertain , and doth not reach to the differences then among them ▪ it is very uncertain , because it sets no bounds to differences ; and supposes the continuance of such differences among them , which he designed to prevent , by perswading them so often in this epistle to be of one mind , of one soul ; as well as to mind the same things . besides , the difference then on foot , was none of the smaller differences of opinions , but that about which they differ'd was urged on one side , as necessary to salvation , by the false apostles ; and opposed on the other , as pernicious and destructive to it . one of my answerers saith , that the iudaizing christians were leaven'd with such a corrupt opinion , as was by no means to be born with ; which would have madè christ and his death in vain . and that the apostle sets himself against it might and main , shewing the dreadful consequences of it . and is it probable the apostle should prescribe a rule of mutual forbearance , in such a case as this ? especially , when in the same chapter , he gives so great a caution against them , with so much unusual sharpness of expression ; beware of dogs , beware of evil workers , beware of the concision . doth this look like a precept of mutual forbearance , as to the differences then among them ? these we know there were , let dr. o name any other smaller differences of opinion , which might be an occasion of the apostles giving such a rule of mutual forbearance . but now , if we suppose the apostle to speak to the difference about the law , about which the churches were then divided , the sence is plain , easie , and pertinent . for so , either ( . ) it takes in those who hitherto differ'd about the law ; and then the sence is , although you are not come up to so great satisfaction as others have , yet go as far as you can with the body of christians , you live with ; keep within one rule ; break not the bounds of peace and vnity which christ hath set you ; run not with the false teachers into separating dividing courses . ( . ) it is directed to those who have got the start of others , and then it contains the obligation that lies upon them , especially so have a mighty regard to the peac● and vnity of christians ; not to break the common●ties and bonds on the account of their greater attainments , nor to separate from others , as meaner and lower christians , because they are not come up to that perfection , which you have attained to . and so either way , it contains an excellent rule , and of admirable use to the christian church , not only at that time , but in all ages of the world , viz. that those who cannot be fully satisfied in all things , should go as far as they can towards preserving peace and communion among christians ; and not peevishly separate and divide the church , because they cannot in all things think as others do ; nor others on the account of greater sanctity and perfection , despise the inferior sort of christians , and forsake their communion , but they ought all to do what lies possibly in them to preserve the bonds of peace , and the vnity of the church . thirdly , how far this rule hath an influence on our case ? ( . ) it follows from hence , that as far as communion is lawful , it is a duty , since , as far as they have attained they are to walk by the same rule . and so much dr. o. doth not deny ; when he saith , those who are agreed in the substantials of religion , or in the principles of faith and obedience , should walk by the same rule , and mind the same things , forbearing one another in the the things wherein they differ . then as far , as they agree , they are bound to joyn together , whether it be as to opinion , or communion . because the obligation to peace and vnity must especially reach to acts of christian communion , as far as that is judged to be lawful . ( . ) that the best christians are bound to vnite with others , though of lower attainments , and to keep within the same rule ; which is a general expression relating to the bounds of a race , and so takes in all such orders which are lawful and judged necessary to hold the members of a christian society together . but , saith dr. o. let the apostles rule be produced with any probability of proof to be his , and they are all ready to subscribe and conform unto it . this is the apostles rule , to go as far as they can ; and if they can go no farther , to sit down quietly , and wait for farther instruction , and not to break the peace of the church , upon present dissatisfaction , nor to gather new churches out of others upon supposition of higher attainments . if the rule reach our case , saith he again , it must be such as requires things to be observed , as were never divinely appointed , as national churches , ceremonies and modes of worship . and so this rule doth in order to peace , require the observation of such things , which although they be not particularly appointed by god , yet are enjoyned by lawful authority , provided , they be not unlawful in themselves , nor repugnant to the world of god. but the apostles never gave any such rules themselves , about outward modes of worship with ceremonies , feasts , fasts , liturgies , &c. what then ? it is sufficient that they gave this general rule , that all lawful things are to be done for the churches peace : and without this no vnity , or order can be preserved in churches . the apostles , saith he , gave rules inconsistent with any determining rule , viz. of mutual forbearance , rome . . and herein the apostle acted not upon meer rules of prudence , but as a teacher divinely inspired . that he was divinely inspired , i do not question , but even such a one may determine a case upon present circumstances , which resolution may not always bind , when the circumstances are changed . for then , the meaning of the apostle must be , that whatever differences happen among christians , there must be no determination either way . but the direct contrary to this , we find in the decree of the apostles at ierusalem , upon the difference that happened in the christian churches . and although there was a very plausible pretence of the obligation of conscience one way ; yet the apostles made a determination in the case , contrary to their judgment . which shews , that the rule of forbearance , where conscience is alledged both wayes , is no standing rule to the christian church ; but that the governors of it from parity of reason may determine those things which they judge to conduce most to the peace and welfare of that church , which they are bound to preserve . and from hence it appears how little reason there is for dr. o's insinuation , as though the false apostles were the only imposers : whereas , it is most evident , that the true apostles made this peremptory decree , in a matter of great consequence , and against the pretence of conscience on the other side . but saith dr. o. further , the iewish christians were left to their own liberty , provided they did not impose on others ; and the dissenters at this day , desire no more , than the gentile churches did , viz. not to be imposed upon to observe those things which they are not satisfied , it is the mind of christ should be imposed upon them . i answer , . it was agreed by all the governors of the christian church , that the iewish christians should be left to their own liberty , out of respect to the law of moses ; and out of regard to the peace of the christian church , which might have been extremely hazarded , if the apostles had presently set themselves against the observing the iewish customs among the iews themselves . . the false apostles imposing on the gentile christians had two circumstances in it , which extremely alter their case from that of our present dissenters . for , ( . ) they were none of their lawful governors , but went about as seducers drawing away the disciples of the apostles from them . ( . ) they imposed the iewish rites as necessary to salvation , and not as meerly indifferent things . and therefore the case of our dissenters is very different from that of the gentile christians , as to the impositions of the false apostles . thus i have considered every thing material in dr. o. which seems to take off the force of the argument drawn from this text. the author of the letter saith , ( . ) that i ought to have proved , that the apostles meant some rule superadded to the scriptures ; and , ( . ) that other church-guides had the same power , as the apostles had . but what need all this ? if it appear ( . ) that the apostles did give binding rules to particular churches , which are not extant in scriptures , as appears by cor. . . so that either the scripture is an imperfect rule , for omitting some divine rules ; or else these were only prudential rules of order and government , ( . ) that it is a standing rule of scripture , that men are bound to do all lawful things for the peace of the church . and this i have shewed , was the apostles design in the words of this text. sect. . others pretend , that the apostle means no more by these words , but that christians must live up to their knowledge , and mind that one thing . this is a very new exposition ; and the author of it intends to set up for a critick upon the credit of it . it is pitty therefore it should pass , without some consideration . but , i pass by the childish triflings about 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a canon , viz. that is not taken in a military notion , because great guns were not then invented ; that it is an ecclesiastical canon mounted upon a platform of moderation ; which are things fit only for boys in the schools ; unless , perhaps , they might have been designed for an artillery-sermon on this text ; but however , methinks they come not in very sutably in a weighty and serious debate . i come therefore to examine the new-light that is given to this controverted text. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he observes from grotius , is left out in one ms ( it may be the alexandrian ) but , what is one ms. to the general consent of greek copies ? not only the modern , but those which st. chrysostom , theodoret , photius , oecumenius , and theophylact had , who all keep it in . but suppose it be left out , the sence is the very same to my purpose . no , saith he , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to walk by the same must be referred to the antecedent 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and what then ? then , saith he , the sense is , what we have attained let us walk up to the same ; which comes to no more than this , unto whatsoever measure or degree of knowledge we have reached , let us walk sutably to it . but the apostle doth not here speak of the improvement of knowledge ; but of the union and conjuction of christians , as appears by the next words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to mind the same thing . no such matter , saith mr. a. that phrase implyes no more than to mind that thing ; or that very thing , viz. vers. . pressing towards the mark . but if he had pleased to have read on , but to phil . . he would have found 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to signifie vnanimity . and st. paul , cor. ▪ ▪ opposes the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . that there be no schism in the body , but that all the members should take care of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , one for another : and therefore the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , minding the same things , is very aptly used against schisms and divisions . i should think st. chrysostom , theodoret , and theophylact , all understood the importance of a greek phrase , as well as our author , and they all make no scruple of interpreting it of the peace and concord of christians . although st. augustin did not understand much greek , yet he knew the general sense of the christian church about this place ; and he particularly applyes it to the peace of the church , in st. cyprians case . by this tast , let any man judge of the depth of that mans learning , or rather the height of his confidence , who dares to tell the world , that the vniversal current and stream of all expositors is against my sense of this text. and for this universal stream and current , besides grotius , who speaks exactly to the same sense with mine , viz. that those who differ'd about the legal ceremonies , should joyn with other christians in what they agreed to be divine ; he mentions only tirinus and zanchy , and then cries , in a word , they all conspire against my interpretation . if he be no better at polling non-conformists than expositors , he will have no such reason to boast of his numbers . had it not been fairer dealing , in one word , to have referred us to mr. pool's synopsis ? for , if he had looked into zanchy himself , he would have found , how he applyed it sharply against dissensions in the church . mr. b. saith , that the text speaketh for vnity and concord is past question ; and that to all christians , though of different attainments ; and therefore requireth all to live in concord that are christians , notwithstanding other differences . and if he will but allow , that by vertue of this rule , men are bound to do all things lawful for preserving the peace of the church , we have no farther difference about this matter : for then , i am sure , it will follow , that if occasional communion be lawful , constant communion will be a duty . and so much for the first sort of dissenters , who allow some kind of communion with our church to be lawful . sect. . ii. i come now to consider the charge of schism , or sinful separation , against those , who , though they agree with us in the substantials of religion , yet deny any communion with our church to be lawful . i do not speak of any improper 〈…〉 communion , which dr. o. calls comm●●●● faith and love , this they do allow to the church of england , but no otherwise , than as they believe us to be orthodox christians ; yet he seems to go farther , as to some at least of our parochial churches , that they are true churches : but in what sense ? are they churches rightly constituted , with whom they may joyn in communion as members ? no ; that he doth not say . but his meaning is , that they are not guilty of any such heinous errors in doctrine , or idolatrous practice in worship , as should utterly deprive them of the being and nature of churches . and doth this kindness only belong to some of our parochial churches ? i had thought , every parochial church was true , or false , according to its frame and constitution ; which among us supposeth the owning the doctrine and worship received and practised in the church of england , as it is established by law ; and if no such errors in doctrine , nor idolatrous praces be allowed by the church of england , then every parochial church which is constituted according to it , is a true church . but all this amounts to no more , than what they call a metaphysical truth ; for he doth not mean , that they are churches with which they may lawfully have communion . and he pleads , for the necessity of having separate congregations , from the necessity of separating from our communion : ( although the time was , when the bare want of a right constitution of churches , was thought a sufficient ground for setting up new churches , or for withdrawing from the communion of a parochial church ; and i do not think the dr. is of another mind now . ) but however , i shall take things as i find them ; and he insists on , as the grounds of this necessity of separation , the things enjoyned by the law 's of the land , or by the canons and orders of the church ; as signing children baptized with the sign of the cross ; kneeling at the communion ; observation of holy-dayes ▪ constant vse of the liturgy ; renouncing other assemblies , and the peoples right in choice of their own pastors ; neglect of the duties of church-members ; submitting to an ecclesiastical rule and discipline , which not one of a thousand can apprehend to have any thing in it , of the authority of christ , or rule of the gospel . this is the short account of the reasons of separation from our churches communion . that which i am now to inquire into , is , whether such reasons as these be sufficient ground for separation from a church , wherein it is confessed there are no heinous errors in doctrine , or idolatrous practice in worship ; for if they be not , such separation must be a formal schism ; because such persons not only withdraw from communion with our church , but set up other churches of their own . now the way i shall take to shew the insufficiency of these causes of separation , shall be , by shewing the great absurdities , that follow upon the allowance of them . these five especially , i shall insist upon . ( . ) that it weakens the cause of the reformation . ( . ) that it hinders all vnion between the protestant-churches . ( . ) that it justifies the antient schism's , which have been always condemned by the christian church . ( . ) that it makes separation endless . ( . ) that it is contrary to the obligation which lies on all christians , to preserve the peace and vnity of the church . sect. . ( . ) the prejudice it brings upon the cause of the reformation . which i shall make appear , not from the testimonies of our own writers , who may be suspected by the dissenters of too much kindness to our church ; but , from the most eminent and learned defenders of the reformation in france , who can be the least suspected of partiality to our church . i begin with calvin ; against whom i hope no exceptions will be taken . ( . ) in the general , he assigns two marks of the visible church , the word of god truly preached , and sacraments administred according to christ's institution . ( . ) he saith , wherever these marks are to be found in particular societies , those are true churches , howsoever they are distributed according to humane conveniencies . ( ) that although those stand as members of particular churches , ( who may not be thought worthy of that society ) till they are duly cast out ; yet the churches themselves having these marks , do still retain the true nature and constitution of churches , and ought to be so esteemed . ( . ) men ought not to separate from , or break the vnity of such churches . and he hath this notable saying upon it : god sets such a value upon the communion of his church , that he looks upon him as an apostate from his religion , who doth wilfully separate himself from any christian society , which hath the true ministery of the word and sacraments . and a little after , he calls separation a denial of god and christ , a destruction of his truth , a mighty provocation of his anger , a crime so great that we can hardly imagine a worse , it being a sacrilegious and perfidious breach of the marriage betwixt christ and his people . in the next section he makes it a very dangerous and mischievous temptation so much as to think of separation from a church that hath these marks . ( . ) that although there be many faults and corruptions in such a church , yet as long as it retains those marks , separation from it , is not justifiable : nay , although some of those faults be about preaching the word , and administration of sacraments : for , saith he , all truths are not of equal moment : but as long as the doctrine according to godliness , and the true vse of sacraments is kept up , men ought not to separate upon lesser differences ; but they ought to seek the amending what is amiss , continuing in the communion of the church ; and without disturbing the peace and order of it . and he at large proves , what great allowance is to be made , as to the corruption of members from the examples of the apostolical churches : and he saith , mens moroseness in this matter , although it seems to flow from zeal , yet it much rather comes from spiritual pride , and a false opinion of their own holiness above others . although , saith he , there were such universal corruptions in the iewish church , that the prophets compare it to sodom and gomorrah ; yet they never set up new churches , nor erected other altars , whereat they might offer separate sacrifices : but whatever the people were , as long as gods word and ordinances were among them , they lifted up pure hands to god , although in such an impure society . the same he proves , as to christ and his apostles . from whence he concludes , that separation from such churches , where the true word of god and sacraments are , is an inexcusable fault . but how then comes he to justifie the separation from the church of rome ? because in that church the true doctrine of christ is so much suppressed , and so many errors obtruded on mens minds in stead of it ; and the worship of god so corrupted , that the publick assemblies are schools of idolatry and wickedness . and the truth of the gospel , being the foundation of the churches vnity , it can be no culpable separation to withdraw from the communion of a church which hath so notoriously corrupted his doctrine and institutions : especially , when they anathematize those who will not comply with them ? but doth he mean any indifferent rites , or ceremonies , where the doctrine is sound ? no ; but false doctrine , and idolatrous worship ; as he frequently declares . and therefore he that would go about to defend separation from a church , on the account of some ceremonies prescribed , and some corruptions remaining in it , must overthrow the fundamental grounds of the reformation , as they are explained by calvin himself . sect. . among their later writers , no man hath vindicated the cause of the reformation with greater success and reputation then mr. daille in his apology . and the grounds he goes upon are these . ( . ) that we are bound to avoid the communion of those , who go about to destroy and ruin christianity . ( . ) if the church of rome hath not required any thing from us which destroys our faith , offends our consciences , and overthrows the service which we believe due to god ; if the differences have been small , and such as we might safely have yielded unto ; then he will grant , that their separation was rash and unjust , and they guilty of the schism . ( . ) he proves , that they had weighty reasons for their separation ; which are these , ( . ) imposing new doctrines as necessary articles of faith : and yet , not all errros in doctrine do afford sufficient ground for separation ; but such as are pernicious and destructive to salvation : for which he instanceth in the lutherans opinion of christ's bodily presence in the sacrament , which overthrows not the use of the sacraments , nor requires the adoring it , it neither divides nor mutilates it , nor makes it an expitiatory sacrifice for sin ; all which follows from the popish doctrine . from whence he concludes , that to separate from a church for tolerable errors , is an unjust separation . ( . ) requiring such worship , as overthrows the foundations of christianity ; which , saith he , proves the necessity of our separation ; and for this he instances in adoration of the host ; which the church of rome strictly requiring , and the protestants believing it to be a meer creature , they cannot give it without idolatry : from whence he concludes our separation to be ●ust , because it was necessary . besides this he gives instances in the worship of images , invocation of saints , &c. by which we see the iustice of the cause of reformation doth not depend on any such ceremonies , as ours are , nor on the want of discipline , nor on the bare dissatisfaction of conscience , but on such great and important reasons , as obtruding new articles of faith , and idolatrous worship on the partakers of the communion of the roman church . amyraldus goes so far , as to say , that if there had been no other faults in the roman church besides their unprofitable ceremonies in baptism , and other things , beyond the measure and genius of christian religion , they had still continued in its communion ; for , saith he , a physician is to be born with that loads his patient with some unuseful prescriptions , if he be otherwise faithful and skilful . but if he mixes poison with his medicines , and besides adds abundance of prescriptions , both needless and chargeable , then the patient hath great reason to look out for better help , and to take care of his own safety and freedom . by which he plainly declares , that bare ceremonies , although many more than ours , are no sufficient ground for separation . of late years , a person of reputation in france set forth a book against the reformation , charging it with schism , because of the separation from the roman church ; which hath been answered three several ways by three learned divines , m. claude , m. pajon , and m. turretin . but , do any of these insist upon matters of meer ceremony where the doctrine is sound , the constant use of liturgy , bare neglect of discipline , &c. no , they were men of better understanding than to insist on such things as these , which they knew , could never bear that weight as to justifie separation from a church ; and that they should have exposed themselves and their cause to the contempt of all considering men , if they could have alledged no more substantial reasons than these . but they all agree in such common reasons , which they thought sufficient to make a separation justifiable , viz. great corruption in doctrine , idolatrous worship , and insupportable tyranny over the consciences of men. turretin expresly saith , no slight errors , no tolerable superstitious rites that do not infect the conscience ( as they cannot where they are not forced upon it by unsound doctrine ) not any corruption of manners , nor defect in government , or discipline , are sufficient grounds for separation . in one word , saith he , the patient is not to be forsaken , unless his disease be deadly and infectious , nor then neither but with great difficulty . le blanc shewing the impossibility of reunion with the papists , goes upon these grounds . . that it cannot be obtained without subscribing to the decrees and canons of the council of trent , and without anathematizing all those who have opposed them . for the condition of communion with that church is no less , than receiving all its errors for necessary articles of faith. . that the publick worship practised , and allowed in that church is idolatrous , he instanceth in adoration of the host , the worship of saints and images . . that they cannot return to that church without subjecting their consciences to the tyrannical vsurpations of the pope . let our brethren now consider , what triumphs the church of rome would make over us , if we had nothing to justifie our separation from them , but only that we could not have our children baptized without an aerial sign of the cross , nor receive the communion without kneeling ; that we must observe holy-days , and use a liturgy ; and that men are not so good as they should be , nor discipline so exact as were to be wished ; how should we be hissed and laughed at all over the christian world ; if we had nothing to alledge for our separation from the roman church , but such things as these ? and when the papists see the weakness of these allegations , they are harden'd in their own ways ; and cry out presently there is no end of schism's and separations on such pretences as these , by which , unspeakable mischief hath been done to the cause of the reformation . sect. . ( . ) this pretence of separation would make vnion among the protestant churches impossible , supposing them to remain as they are . for the lutheran churches have the same , and more ceremonies , and vnscriptural impositions ( as they are called ) than our church hath . they use the cross in baptism , kneeling at the communion ; and the observation of holy-days and times of fasting , and set-forms of prayer , &c. yet these churches have been thought fit to be united with the most reformed churches , by the best and wisest protestants both abroad , and at home . i do not mean only to have communion with them in faith and love , as dr. o. speaks , but to joyn together so , as to make the same bodies of churches . a synod of the reformed churches in france , at charenton , a. d. . declared , that there was no idolatry , or superstition in the lutheran churches , and therefore the members of their churches might be received into communion with them , without renouncing their own opinions or practices , which shews , that they did not look on those as sufficient grounds of separation ; for then they would not have admitted them as members of the lutheran churches , but have told them , they ought to forsake their communion , and embrace that of the reformed churches . look over all those learned and peaceable divines , who have projected or perswaded an vnion with the lutheran churches and others ; and see , if any of them make the particulars mention'd any cause of separation from them . the helvetian churches declare , that no separation ought to be made for different rites and ceremonies , where there is an agreement in doctrine : and the true concord of churches lies in the doctrine of christ and the sacraments delivered by him . and this confession was first drawn up by bullinger , myconius and grynaeus , and subscribed afterwards by all their ministers ; and by those of geneva and other places . and they take notice of the different customs in other churches about the lords supper and other things , yet , say they , because of our consent in doctrine , these things cause no breach in our churches . and they make no scruple about the indifferency of any of the ceremonies used in the lutheran churches , except those of the mass and images in churches . at sendomir in poland , a. d. . those who followed the helvetian , auspurg , bohemian confessions , came to a full agreement , so as to make up one body , notwithstanding the different rites and ceremonies among them ; which , they say , ought not to break the communion of churches , as long as they agree in the same purity of doctrine , and the same foundation of faith and salvation ; and for this they appeal to the auspurg and saxon confessions . the auspurg confession declares , that agreement in doctrine and sacraments is sufficient for the churches vnity ; then separation cannot be lawful meerly on the account of ceremonies and human traditions . and the confession of strasburg saith , that they look on no human traditions as condemned in scripture , but such as are repugnant to the law of god ; and bind the consciences of men ; otherwise if they agree with scripture , and be appointed for good ends , although they be not expresly mention'd in scripture , they are rather to be looked on as divine than human : and the contempt of them is the contempt of god himself : nay , they say , though the laws seem very hard and unjust , a true christian will not stick at obeying them , if they command nothing that is wicked . ioh. crocius distinguisheth of sorts of ceremonies . the first commanded , the second forbidden , the third neither commanded , nor forbidden . the vnity of the church supposeth the observation of the first , and yet for every omission the communion of the church is not to be broken . the second breaks the churches vnity ; yet its communion not to be forsaken for one or two of these , if there be no tyranny over the consciences of men : but for the third , men ought not to break the vnity of the church . and in another place he gives particular instances in the ceremonies observed in the lutheran churches , the exorcism in baptism , the linnen garments and wax candles , the holy-days and confession , &c. and declares , that we ought not to break off communion with churches , or make a schism for these things . zanchy accounts it a great sin to disturb the peace of churches for the sake of indifferent ceremonies ; and contrary to that charity we ought to have to our brethren and to churches . amyraldus speaking of the ceremonies in the lutheran churches , saith , that those which came in use after the apostolick times , have no other obligation on us , than that for the sake of indifferent things , though at first appointed out of no necessity , nay though there be inconveniency in them , yet the churches peace ought not to be disturbed . and he very well observes , that the nature of ceremonies is to be taken from the doctrine which goes along with them ; if the doctrine be good the rites are so , or at least , are tolerable : if it be false , then they are troublesome , and not to be born ; if it be impure , and lead to idolatry , then the ceremonies are tainted with the poyson of it . but , saith he , the lutheran churches have no false or wicked doctrine concerning their rites ; and therefore he adviseth persons to communicate with the lutheran churches , as their occasions serve : and so do others . and ludovicus prince elector palatine , not only congratulated the mutual communion of the several churches in poland , but pray'd for the same in germany too , as bishop davenant tells us ; who proves at large , that there is no sufficient reason to hinder it ; which he makes to lie only in three things . i. tyranny over mens faith and consciences . ii. the practise of idolatry . iii. the denial of some fundamental article of faith. and none of these things being chargeable on the lutheran churches , the lawfulness of the terms of communion with them doth fully appear . and now i desire our brethren , who justifie their separation upon pretence that our terms of communion are unlawful , to reflect upon these things . will they condemn so many protestant churches abroad , which have harder terms of communion than we ? what would they think of the exorcism of infants , of auricular confession , of images in churches , and some other things , besides what are observed among us ? do we want discipline ? do they not in other churches abroad ? the transylvanian divines in their discourse of the vnion of protestant churches , declared , that little or none was observed among them . will they then separate from all protestant churches ? will they confine the communion of christians to their narrow scantlings ? will they shut out all the lutheran churches from any possibility of vnion with them ? for , what vnion can be justifiable with those whose terms of communion are unlawful ? they may pity them , and pray for them , and wish for their reformation , but an vnion doth suppose such a communion of churches , that the members of one may communicate in another . do they allow this to the lutheran churches ? if not , then they render vnion among the protestant churches impossible , because unlawful . if they do , will they be so unjust , as not to allow the same favor and kindness to our own church ? can they think separation necessary from our church on those grounds , which are common to us with other protestant churches ; and yet think vnion desirable and possible with them notwithstanding ? do they think that 〈◊〉 members of the reformed churches could lawfully communicate with the lutheran churches , although they have the cross in baptism , k●e●●g at the communion , the surpless , and other ceremonies which we have not ? and yet , is it necessary to s●parate from our churches communion on the account of such things as these ; where there is acknowledged to be a full agreement in the substantials of religion ? either therefore they must differ from the judgment of the reformed churches , and the most emine●● ▪ protestant divines abroad , or they must renounce this principle of separation . sect. . ( . ) this will justifie the ancient schisms which have been always condemn'd in the christian church . for setting aside the ceremonies ( of which already ) and the use of the liturgy and holy-days ( which is common to our church with all other christian churches , for many hundred years before the great degeneracy of the roman church ; and are continued by an vniversal consent in all parts of the christian world ) the other reasons for separation are such , which will justifie the greatest schismaticks that ever were in the christian church , viz. want of evangelical church-discipline , and due means of edification , and depriving the people of their liberty of choosing their own pastors , whereby they are deprived also of all use of their light and knowledge of the gospel , in providing for their own edification . for , what gave occasion to the novatian schism , which began so soon , and spread so far , and continued so long , but the pretence of the want of evangelical church-discipline , and better means of edification , and humoring the people in the choice of their own pastors ? there were two things the novatians chiefly insisted on , as to evangelical discipline . . the power of the keys . . the purity of the church . . as to the power of the keys , they said , that christ had never given it absolutely to his church , but under certain restrictions , which if men exceeded , the church had no power to release them : and that was especially in the case of denial of christ before men , when men fell in time of persecution . . the churches purity ought to be preserved , by keeping such who had thus fallen from ever being receiv'd into communion again . they did not deny that god might pardon such upon repentance , but they said , the church could not . and this they pleaded , would tend very much to the edification of christians , and would make them more watchful over themselves , when they saw no hopes of recovering the churches communion , if they once fell from it . add to this , that novatus , or novatianus ( for the greeks confounded their names ) in his epistle to dionysius of alexandria , saith , that he was forced to do what he did , by the importunity of the brethren , who out of their zeal for the purity of the ecclesiastical discipline , would not comply with the looser part which joyned with cornelius , and therefore chose him to be their bishop . and so much appears by pacianus , that novatus coming from carthage to rome ▪ makes a party there for novatia●us in opposition to cornelius , which consisted chiefly of those who had stood firmest in the persecution ; in their name he writes to novatianus , declaring , that he was chosen by the zealous party at rome , whereas cornelius had admitted the lapsed to communion , and consequently corrupted the discipline of the christian church . here we have a concurrence of dr. o's pleas , zeal for reformation of discipline , the greater edification of the people , and the asserting their right in choosing such a pastor as was not likely to promote their edification . but notwithstanding these fair pretences , the making a separation in the church , was every where condemned as a great sin ; as appears by st. cyprian , dionysius of alexandria , theodoret , epiphanius , and others . dionysius tells the author of the schism , that he had better have suffer'd any thing , than thus to have made a rent in the church : and it was as glorious a martyrdom to die to prevent a schism , as to avoid idolatry , and he thinks it a much greater thing ; the one being a martyrdom for the church , the other only for ones own soul. st. cyprian charges those who were guilty of this schism with pride and arrogance , and doing unspeakable mischief to the church , by breaking the peace of it : and will hardly allow those to be christians who lived in such a schism : when as epiphanius observes , they still pleaded they had the same faith with the catholick church ; and yet st. cyprian will not allow that to be true faith which hath not charity ; and saith , that there can be no true charity , where men do thus break in pieces the vnity of the church . the meletians in aegypt agreed with the catholick christians in the substantials of religion , holding the same faith with them , as epiphanius relates the story ; and their schism began too about preserving the discipline of the church , and the best means for the edification of the people . they allowed a restitution for the lapsed to the communion of the church , but after a very severe discipline , and an utter incapacity of those in orders as to any parts of their functions . but peter bishop of alexandria thought the milder way the better ; whereupon a separation followed : and the meletians had distinct churches ; which they called , the churches of the martyrs . this schism grew to that height , that they would not pray together in prison , nor in the quarries whither they were sent . meletius being a bishop was deposed by peter of alexandria , but he went on still to promote the course of separation in thebais , and other parts of egypt , upon which the council of nice , in their synodical epistle , deprived him of all episcopal power , and the people that adhered to him , of the power of choosing their own pastors ( or rather of proposing the names of those who were to be ordained . ) and so , according to dr. o. they had just cause to continue their separation still , although it were condemned by the council of nice . audaeus began his schism out of a mighty zeal for the discipline of the church , and a great freedom which he used in reproving the faults of the bishops and clergy ; but meeting with ill usage , he withdrew from the churches communion , with his disciples , although he still retained the same faith , and agreed in the substantials of religion with the best christians ; but forbore all communion with them ; which epiphanius accounts 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the most dreadful thing in the world : and yet upon dr. o's principles of separation , they did a very commendable thing as long as their design was to restore the churches discipline , and to consult their own greater edification . the followers of eustathius sebastenus are on this account likewise excused , who withdrew from the publick congregations on a pretence of greater sanctity and purity in paphlagonia , and stand condemned in several canons of the council at gangrae ; so are those mention'd and condemn'd in the councils of constantinople and carthage ; and the separation of felicissimus and his brethren from st. cyprian ; all which are set down together in my sermon , but are gently passed over by dr. o. and mr. b. and the rest of their adversaries . only one saith , that the errors of the followers of eustathius sebastenus , both in opinion and practise , were very gross , which the council takes notice of and condemns . yet , as gross as they were , there was a pretence of greater sanctity and purity in them . for their abstaining from marriage , and peculiarity of habits , and separate meetings , were all carried on with the same pretence . to proceed then . on the same accounts the donatists will be vindicated in the main grounds of their schism , although they were mistaken in the matter of fact concerning coecilian ; for their great pretence was to preserve the purity of the churches discipline , as may at large be seen in optatus , and st. augustin ; and yet they frequently , and deliberately call it , a most damnable and sacrilegious schism . the luciferians pretended such a zeal for the true faith , and the discipline of the church , that the only pretence for their schism was , that they could not communicate with those who had subscribed to arianism , or received ordination from ari●n bishops ; as may be seen at large in the book of marcellinus and faustinus . and they joyned with the party of vrsinus at rome against that of damasus , and complained , they were deprived of the liberty of choosing their own pastors . so that upon these grounds , there hath scarce been any considerable schism in the christian church , but may be justified upon dr. owens reasons for separation from our church . sect. . ( . ) another argument against this course of separation , is , that these grounds will make separation endless . which is , to suppose all the exhortations of scripture to peace and vnity among christians , to signifie nothing . for nothing being more contrary to vnity than division and separation ; if there be no bounds set , but what the fancies of men dictate to them , be sufficient grounds to justifie division and separation ; any people may break communion with a church , and set up a new one , when they think fit ; which will leave the christian church in a remediless condition against those who break its peace and communion . it being a true saying of mr. cottons of new-england , that they that separate from their brethren farther than they have just cause , shall at length find cause ( or at lest think they have found cause ) just enough to separate one from another . i never heard , saith he , of any instance to the contrary , either in england , or holland . the substance of this i had objected before in the preface to my sermon ; to which mr. a. replies after this manner ; that though some petty and inconsiderable inconveniencies , some little trouble may arise to a church from the levity and volubility of mens minds ; yet this is no reason why they should enslave their iudgments or consciences to others . and is this all the antidote against the mischief of separation ? is it a sin , to break the churches communion , or , is it not ? if it be a sin in some cases , but not in others ; why do you not shew us what those cases are ; and that it is a sinful separation in other cases , but not in them ? but to talk of small inconveniencies by the levity of peoples minds , is childish trifling , and not answering . is schism indeed become such an inconsiderable and petty inconvenience ? is this an answer becoming a christian , to swell every small imposition into a huge insupportable mountain , and to make themselves lie groaning under the weight of a ceremony or two , as though their very heart-strings were cracking , and as if nero had begun a fresh persecution ; and at the same time to lessen the guilt of division and separation , as though it were nothing but a little wantonness in the lambs of their flocks , frisking up and down from one pasture to another ; some small and inconsiderable inconveniencies may happen by it , but not worth speaking of ; and it is pity they should be deprived of their pleasure for it ? what a rare advocate had this man been for the novatians , donati●ts , luciferians , or what schismaticks soever rent the church in pieces in former times ? and supposing st. cyprian , and st. augustine , and other great opposers of the antient schisms , to be met together , we may gather from these words , and the principles of separation , which he lays down , after what manner he would accost them . alass ( saith he ) what do you mean , cyprian , and austin , and other reverend fathers , to talk with so much severity and sharpness against separation from the communion of the church , as though it were such a damnable sin , such a sacrilegious impiety , such a horrid wickedness ? will you make no allowance to the levity and volubility of mens minds ? what! you would have men enslave their iudgments and consciences to others , would you ? you would have us be meer brutes to be managed by your bit and bridle ? if the novatians do think your discipline too loose , why should not they joyn together for stricter ? if felicissimus and his brethren dislike some things in the church of carthage , why may not they go to the mountains for separate meetings ? if the good people were imposed upon against their wills in the choice of cornelius , why may not they choose novatian for their pastor ? what a stir do you cyprian make in your epistles about keeping the peace of the church , and submitting to your rules of discipline ? as though there were not more mischief in your imposing , than in the peoples separating . and as for you , augustin , who can with patience read your long and fierce declamations , against the sober donatists ? for , there were mad hare-brained fanaticks , called circumcellians , who were troubled with more than ordinary levity and volubility , running from place to place , and taking away other mens lives , and their own too , out of pure zeal ; these i grant have an extraordinary worm , which ought to be picked out in time ; but for the rest of the brethren that only separate on the account of impurity which they apprehend in your church , why should you be so severe against them ? why do you so often cry out of the sacrilegiousness of this schism ? we know no other sacriledge , but the sacrilegious desertion of our ministery , in obedience to the laws ; this is a sacriledge we often talk of , and tell the people , it is far worse than robbing church-plate , considering what precious gifts we have . but for the sacriledge of schism , that we can never understand ; although i perceive you have it over and over ; besides many other hard words , wherein you would seem to make it the greatest of all wickedness ; and you say , that god punished it more severely than idolatry ; since those who were guilty of the latter , were to be destroyed by the sword , but schismaticks were swallowed up of the earth ; as corah , and his company . whereas we that have greater light , look upon separation but as an effect of the levity and volubility of mens minds , and though some little trouble may come to the church by it , yet it is far better than submission to others impositions . and is not this an intolerable imposition , for you to force these honest donatists to communicate in a corrupt and impure church , as they do believe yours to be ? when the cause was strictly examined at carthage , what was it their party pleaded for , but purity of discipline , and that the church was defiled for want of it ? and therefore they were forced to separate , for greater purity of ordinances . and , is this the damnable , devillish , sacrilegious schism you talk of ? methinks you should consider better the mischief of your impositions , when you require communion so strictly with you , or else they must presently be separatists and schismaticks . i pray sirs have a little patience with me ; if i do not fetch off my good friends the donatists in this matter , we will all be content to be called schismaticks , as well as they . for if our principles do clear our selves , i am sure they will do as good a turn for them . now , the main principles of our present separation are these . ( ▪ ) that every particular church , upon a due ballance of all circumstances , has an inherent right to choose its own pastor , and every particular christian the same power to choose his own church . i say not to mischoose , do you mark me , but , a power to choose ; not to choose any , but one that may best advance their own edification ; at lest that no pastor be forced upon a church , no church obtruded on a single christian without their own consent . now i pray consider , why might not lucilla , and donatus , and botrus , and celeustus , with their party among the people at carthage , choose majorinus for their pastor ; although the rest had chosen caecilian ? for they were not well satisfied with mensurius his predecessor , whom they suspected for a traditor ; but when they had their liberty to choose , why should they be debarred of their inherent right of choosing their own pastor ? why should caecilian be obtruded upon them ? why should not they choose one , who would best advance their edification ? for caecilian was at lest under suspicion of compliance in time of persecution ; and therefore for my part , upon our principles , i think the donatists very free from the charge of schism . ( . ) that it is the duty of every christian to worship god , not only in purity of heart , but according to the purity of gospel-administrations . now observe , that there was nothing the donatists pleaded so much , and so vehemently for , as the purity of gospel-administrations . this was that which parmenian , petilian , and the rest still contended for , as appears by the plea they put in for themselves in the last conference at carthage . we are they ( say they ) that have suffer'd persecution for maintaining the purity of the church , this hundred years , because we would not comply with their corruptions , we have been turned out of our churches , and been sent to prison , and had our goods taken from us , and some of our brethren have been killed , and others hardly used for so good a cause ; and , can such men as you condemn them for a horrible schism ? i tell you , they are as innocent as our selves , for they went upon the same grounds . ( . ) that every christian is obliged to live in the use of all god's ordinances and commandments . now , is not discipline one of god's ordinances ? and , do we not make want of discipline , one of the reasons of our separation ? and therefore the donatists were very honest men , for they were just of our mind . and these being the chief grounds we go upon , we cannot but in brotherly kindness speak this in vindication of them , against your unreasonable severity . i know you tell them often , there will be no end of separation upon these terms ; for why might not maximia●●us do the same by primianus , that majorinus did by caecilian ? and so make frustum de frusto , by which they did minuta●im concidere , cut the church into so many little pieces , that could never be joyned together again : but , let me tell you , that the force of your argument comes to this , that men may choose one pastor to day , and another to morrow , and a third the next ; and so turn round till they are giddy , and run ●hemselves out of breath in a wild goose chase , till they sit down and rest in irreligion and atheism . and is this all ? ( these are his own words . ) the apostle commands us to prove all things ( what! by running from one communion to another ? ) m●●t we needs therefore never hold fast that which is good ? unsetled heads , and unsetled hearts will be ●●ndring ; let them go , 't is a good riddance of them 〈◊〉 they be obstinate ; but where this humor has destroyed one church , this rigorous forcing of pastors on the people ( as caecilian on the people of carthage ) has divided and destroyed hundreds . thus far the advocate-general for schismaticks . judge now , reader , whether the causes of the present separation , as they are laid down by my adversary , do not equally defend the donatists in their schism ; and his making so light a matter of schisms doth not give encouragement to men to make more . sect. . but i shall not send him so far back as st. cyprian , and st. augustin , for better instruction in this matter ; but i shall refer him to one whose writings i perceive he is better acquainted with , even mr. baxter . who hath very well , in several books , set forth the great mischief of divisions , and separations . he doth not look upon them as petty and inconsiderable inconveniencies , little troubles to the church , the effects of levity , and volubility of mens minds ; but he quotes above forty places of scripture against them , and saith , that the world , the flesh , and the devil are the causes from whence they come ; that they are as much the works of the flesh , as adulteries , fornications , &c. that contentious dividers are carnal men , and have not the spirit ; that divisions are the wounding , nay the killing of the church , as much as lieth in the dividers ; and that to reform the church , by dividing it , is no wiser , than to cut out the liver , or spleen , or gall to cleanse them from the filth that both obstruct them , and hinder them in their office : that divisions are the deformities of the church , the lamentation of friends , and the scorn of enemies : the dishonor of christ and the gospel : the great hindrance of the conversion and salvation of the world , and of the edification of the members of the church : that they fill the church with sins of a most odious nature ; they cherish pride , and malice , and belying others ( the three great sins of the devil ) as naturally as dead flesh breedeth worms . in a word , the scripture telleth us , that where envying and strife is , there is confusion and every evil work . ( and , is not this a lamentable way of reformation of some imaginary , or lesser evils ) yet farther , he saith , they are uneasie to the persons themselves , and rob them of the sweetest part of religion ; they lead directly to apostacy from the faith , and shake states and kingdoms , having a lamentable influence on the civil peace . is all this nothing but the natural effect of the levity or volubility of peoples minds ? this learned author begins his book with a very starched relation of his admirable reading , that in his time he hath read an elegant oration in praise of a quartan ague ; another upon the gout , a third upon folly ; but there wants one yet in the praise of schism ; and i never met with one that doth offer fairer toward it , than he doth . for he not only excuses it , from the natural cause of it , and the small trouble that attends it ; but he implies it to be the consequence of mens using their reason , and not being made bruits to be managed with a strong bit and bridle . but mr. baxter will teach him another lesson ; for , he saith , that schism is a sin against so many , and clear , and vehement words of the holy ghost , that it is utterly without excuse ; whoredoms , and treason , and perjury are not oftner forbidden in the gospel , than this : that it is contrary to the very design of christ in our redemption , which was , to reconcile us all to god , and to unite and centre us all in him : that , it is contrary to the design of the spirit of grace , and to the very nature of christianity it self : that it is a sin against the nearest bonds of our highest relations to each other ; that it is either a dividing christ , or robbing him of a great part of his inheritance : and neither of these is a little sin : that it is accompanied with self-ignorance , and pride , and great unthankfulness to god : that church-dividers are the most successful servants of the devil , being enemies to christ in his family and livery : and that they serve the devil more effectually than open enemies : that schism is a sin which contradicteth all gods ordinances and means of grace , which are purposely to procure and maintain the vnity of his church . that it is a sin against as great and lamentable experiences , as almost any sin can be : and this is a heinous aggravation of it , that it is commonly justified , and n●t repented of by those that commit it ; and it is yet the more heinous , `that it is commonly father'd upon god : lastly , that it is most unlike the heavenly state , and in some regard worse than the kingdom of the devil , for he would not destroy it by dividing it against it self . remember now , saith he , that schism , and making parties and divisions in the church , is not so small a sin , as many take it for . i conclude this , with his admonition to bag shaw , upon his lessening the sin of separation . alass , dear brother , that after so many years silencing and affliction , after flames and plagues , and dreadful iudgments , after twenty years practice of the sin it self , and when we are buried in the ruines which it caused , we should not yet know , that our own vncharitable divisions , alienations , and separations are a crying sin ! yea , the crying sin ; as well as the vncharitableness and hurtfulness of others . alass ! will god leave us also , even us , to the obdurateness of pharaoh ? doth not iudgment begin with us ? is there not crying sin with us ? what have we done to christ's kingdom , to this kingdom , to our friends ( dead and alive ) to our selves , and ( alass ) to our enemies , by our divisions . and , do we not feel it ? do we not know it ? is it to us , even to us , a crime intolerable to call us to repentance ? woe to us ! into what hard-heartedness have we sinned our selves ? yea , that we should continue , and passionately defend it ! when will god give us repentance unto life ? let mr. a. read these passages over seriously , and then consider , whether he can go on to excuse , and palliate the sin of schism . but it may be said , that mr. a. speaks all this comparatively , with enslaving our iudgments and consciences to others , which he calls an enormous and monstrous principle ; and he saith , this is a medicine worse than the poyson , even as 't is much better to have a rational soul , though subject to mistakes , than the soul of a brute , which may be managed as you will , with a strong bit and bridle . to make it plain , that he makes little , or nothing of the sin of separation , we must attend to the argument he was to answer ; which was , that if it be lawful to separate on a pretence of greater purity , where there is an agreement in doctrine , and the substantial parts of worship , as is agreed in our case , then a bare difference of opinion , as to some circumstances of worship , and the best constitution of churches , will be sufficient ground to break communion , and to set up new churches ; which considering the great variety of mens fancies about these matters , is to make an infinite divisibility in churches , without any possible stop to farther separation . where we see plainly the inconvenience urged is endless separation : doth he set any kind of bounds to it ? no ; but only talkes of inconsiderable and petty inconveniencies , and some little trouble that may arise to a church from the levity and volubility of mens minds , i. e. let men separate as long as they will ▪ ●his is the worst of it ; and he must grant , that though separation be endless , there is no harm in it . but he that could find out a medium between circumstances of worship , and substantials ; can find out none between endless separation , and the enslaving mens iudgments and consciences : for he supposes , one of the two must of necessity be : which is plain giving up the cause to the papists . for this is their argument , either we must give up our iudgments and consciences to the conduct of our guides , or there will be endless separation . he grants the consequence , and cries , what then ? it is nothing but the levity and volubility of mens minds , and this is much rather to be chosen , than the other . but any sound protestant that understands the state of the controversie between us and them ( as this author apparently doth not ) will presently deny the consequence : because a prudent and due submission in lawful things lies between tyranny over mens consciences , and endless separation . but he knows no medium between being tied neck and heels together , and leaping over hedge and ditch , being kept within no bounds . and what ignorance or malice is it to suppose , that our church brings in that enormous and monstrous principle , of enslaving mens iudgments and consciences , forcing them to surrender their reasons to naked will and pleasure ? and if he doth not suppose it , his discourse is frivolous and imperti●●●t . for , a due submission to the rules of our established church , without any force on the consciences of men , as to the infallibility of guides , or necessity of the things themselves ; will put a sufficient stop to separation ; which must be endless on my adversaries suppositions . sect. . ( . ) lastly , i argue against this separation , from the obligation which lies upon all christians , to preserve the peace and vnity of the church . and now i have brought the matter home to the consciences of men , who it may be will little regard other inconveniences , if the practice of separation do not appear to be unlawful from the word of god. which i now undertake to prove , upon these suppositions . ( . ) that all christians are under the strictest obligations to preserve the peace and vnity of the church . for it is not possible to suppose , that any duty should be bound upon the consciences of men , with plainer precepts , and stronger arguments than this is . the places are so many , that it were endless to repeat them ; and therefore needless , because this is agreed on all hands . so that violation of the vnity of the church , where there is no sufficient reason to justifie it , is a sin , as much as murder is , and as plainly forbidden . but it happens here , as it doth in the other case , that as murder is always a sin ; but there may be some circumstances , which may make the taking away a mans life , not to be murder ; so it may happen , that though schism be always a sin , yet there may be such circumstances which may make a separation not to be a schism ; but then they must be such reasons , as are not fetched from our fancies , no more than in the case of murder ; but such as are allowed by god himself in his law. for , he only that made the law can except from it . ( . ) the vnity of the church doth not lie in a bare communion of faith and love , but in a ioynt-participation of the ordinances appointed by christ to be observed in his church . for although the former be a duty , yet it doth not take in the whole duty of a christian , which is to joyn together , as members of the same body . and therefore they are commanded to assemble together ; and upon the first institution of a christian church , it is said , the disciples continued in the apostles doctrine and fellowship , and in breaking of bread , and in prayers . and the apostle sets forth christians as making one body , by communion in the ordinances of christ. we being many are one bread , and one body ; for we are all partakers of that one bread. and by one spirit , we are all baptized into one body ; whether we be iews or gentiles , bond or free , and have been all made to drink into one spirit . the vnity of the christian church , st. paul saith , is to be preserved by the bond of peace ; and that vnity supposeth one body and one spirit ; and the members of that body as they are united to one head , whom he calls one lord , so they are joyned together by one faith , and one baptism . therefore as the vnity of the church is founded upon some external bonds , as well as internal , that is , one faith , and one baptism , as well as one lord , and one spirit ; so the manifestation of this vnity ought to be by external acts ; for , how can this vnity be discovered by acts meerly internal and spiritual ; as inward love to the members of the body , being present in spirit , & c ? therefore , the obligation to preserve the vnity of the church , doth imply a joyning together with the other members of the church , in the common and publick acts of religion . ( . ) nothing can discharge a christian from this obligation to communion with his fellow-members , but what is allowed by christ or his apostles , as a sufficient reason for it . because this being a new society of christ's own institution ; and the obligation to communion being so strictly enjoyned , we are to suppose it still to hold , where some plain declaration of his will to the contrary doth not appear . although god hath , with great severity , forbidden killing : yet when himself appointed particularly cases , wherein mens lives were to be taken away ; we are thereby assur'd , that in these cases it is not that killing which is forbidden ; so in the present case , if it appear that although separation from the c●mmunion of christians be a thing condemned ; yet if the same authority do allow particular exemptions , we are certain in those cases such separation is no sin . but then , as in the former case , no man is exempted from the guilt of shedding blood , who upon his own fancy takes upon him to execute iustice ; so here , no mans imagination that he doth separate for a good end , will justifie his separation ; for the guilt of the sin remains as great in it self . and there is scarce any other sin more aggravated in the new testament than this ; it being so directly contrary to that vnity of his church , which our saviour prayed for , and his apostles with so much earnestness recommend to all christians ; and use so many arguments to perswade men to persevere . from hence irenaeus saith , that christ will come to iudge those who make schisms in the church , and rather regard their own advantage , than the churches vnity ; who , for slight causes , or for any , make nothing of cutting asunder the great and glorious body of christ , and do what in them lies to destroy it . they speak for peace , saith he , but they mean war : they strain at a gnat , and swallow camels . the benefit they hope to bring to the church , cannot make amends for the mischief of their schism . nothing provokes god more , saith st. chrysostom , than to divide his church : nay , saith he , the blood of mortyrdom will not wash off the guilt of it . the mischief the church receives by it , is greater than it receives from open enemies : for the one makes it more glorious , the other exposes it to shame among its enemies , when it is set upon by its own children . this , saith he , i speak to those who make no great matter of schism ; and indifferently go to the meetings of those who divide the church . if their doctrine be contrary to ours , for that reason they ought to abstain ; if not , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they ought to do it so much the rather . do no you know , what corah , dathan , and abiram suffer'd ? and not they only , but those that were with them . but you say , they have the same faith , and they are very orthodox ; why then , saith he , do they separate ? one lo●d , one faith , one baptism . if they do well , we do ill ; if we do well , they do ill . if they have the same doctrines , the same sacraments , for what cause do they set up another church in opposition to ours ? it is nothing but vain glory , ambition and deceit . take away the people from them , and you cut off the disease . and after much more to that purpose ; i speak these things , saith he , that no man might say , he did not know it to be such a sin : i tell you , and testifie this to you , that separation from the church , or dividing of it , is no less a sin , than falling into heresy . if the sin then be so great and dangerous , men ought to examin with great care , what cases those are wherein separation may be made without sin. and i do earnestly desire our brethren , as they love their own souls , and would avoid the guilt of so great a sin , impartially and without prejudice to consider this passage of irenaeus , and how parallel it is with their own case who separate from us , and set up other churches in opposition to ours , which yet they acknowledge to be very orthodox , and to agree with them in the same doctrine , and the same sacraments . . there are three cases wherein the scripture allows of separation . first , in the case of idolatrous worship . for the precepts are as plain that christians should abstain from idolatry , as that they should preserve the vnity of the church . neither be ye idolaters . flee from idolatry . keep your selves from idols . thou shalt love the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve . and to the case of idolaters , st. paul applyes the words spoken of old to the babylonians , come out from among them , and be separate ; and touch not the unclean thing . now in this case , where there is so plain a command , there is no doubt of the lawfulness of separation ; if men cannot joyn with a church in their religious worship , without doing that which god hath so strictly forbidden . secondly , in case of false doctrine being imposed in stead of true . for although in other things great submission is required to the guides and governors of the church ; yet if any teachers offer to bring another gospel , or to corrupt the true one ; st. paul denounces an anathema against them : and that implies , that they should have no communion with them , but look upon them as persons cut off from the body ( like putrid members ) lest they should corrupt the rest . st. paul commands titus , when there is no hopes of reclaiming such , to exclude them from the society of christians . st. iohn forbids all familiar conversation with such . the church of ephesus is commended for hating the nicolaitans ; and the church of pergamus reproved for tolerating their doctrine . thirdly . in case men make things indifferent necessary to salvation , and divide the church upon that account . and this was the case of the false apostles , who urged the ceremonies of the law , as necessary to salvation ; and to propagate this opinion of theirs , they went up and down , and endeavor'd to draw away the apostles disciples , and to set up separate churches among the christians ; and to allow none to partake with them , that did not own the necessity of the iewish ceremomonies to salvation . now although st. paul himself complyed sometimes with the practice of them ; and the iewish christians especially in iudaea , generally observed them ; yet when these false apostles came to enforce the observation of them , as necessary to salvation , then he bid the christians at philippi to beware of them , i. e. to fly their communion , and have nothing to do with them . these are all the cases i can find in the new testament , wherein separation from publick communion is allowed ; but there are two others , wherein s. paul gives particular directions , but such as do not amount to separation . . the different opinions they had about meats and drinks ; some were for a pythagorean abstinence , from all flesh ; some for a iewish abstinence , from some certain sorts ; others for a full christian liberty . now this being a matter of diet , and relating to their own families , the apostle advises them not to censure or judge one another ; but notwithstanding this difference , to joyn together as christians in the duties common to them all . for the kingdom of god doth not lie in meats and drinks ; i. e. let every one order his family as he thinks fit ; but that requires innocency , and a care not to give disturbance to the peace of the church for these matters ; which he calls peace and ioy in the holy ghost ; which is provoked and grieved by the dissentions of christians . and he , saith he , that in these things serveth christ , is acceptable to god , and approved of men. let us therefore follow after the things that make for peace , and things wherewith we may edifie one another . in such cases then , the apostle allows no separation from the publick communion of christians . it was the same case as to the observation of days then ; for some christians went then on iewish holidays to the synagogues ; others did not ; but for such things they ought not to divide from each others communion in the common acts of christian worship . and the design of the apostle is not to lay down a standing rule of mutual forbearance as to different communions ; but to shew , that such differences ought not to be an occasion of breaking communion among christians , and so the apostles discourse , rom. . holds strongly against separation , on these and the like accounts . . the corrupt lives of many who were not under churches censure . when st. paul taxes so many corruptions in the church of corinth , no wonder if some of them , put the case to them , what they should do , in case they knew some members of the church to be men of bad lives ; although the offences were not scandalous , by being publickly known ; must they abstain from the communion of the church for these ? to this st. paul answers , that every private christian ought to forbear all familiar conversation with such ; if any one that is a brother , be a fornicator , &c. with such a one , no not to eat . which is all the apostle requires of private christians ; but if the scandal be publick , as that of the incestuous persou , the church had power to vindicate its own honor , by casting such out : not as though the church communion were defiled , if they continued in ; but the reputation and honor of the church suffered by it ; the preservation whereof , is the true cause of the churches discipline . but the apostle gives not the lest countenance to private mens withdrawing from the churches communion , though such persons still continued in it . for there may be many reasons to break off private familiarity , which will not hold as to publick communion . for our communion in publick , is a thing which chiefly respects god , and a necessary duty of his own appointing , the benefit whereof depends upon his promises , and all the communion they have with other men , is only joyning together for the performance of a common religious duty : but private familiarity is a thing which wholly respects the persons converse with , and a thing of mere choice , and hardly to be imagined without approbation at lest , if not imitation of their wickedness . and therefore to argue from one to the other is very unreasonable . the matter of separation being th●s stated according to the scripture , there can be no way le●t to justifie the separation from our church , but to prove , either that our worship is idolatrous , or that our doctrine is false , or that our ceremonies are made necessary to salvation ; which are all so remote from any color of truth , that none of my adversaries have yet had the hardiness to undertake it . but however , what pleas they do bring to justifie this separation must in the next place be examined . part iii. the pleas for separation examined . sect. . all the considerable pleas at this time made use of for separation may be reduced to these heads . . such as relate to the constitution of our church . . to the terms of communion with it . . to the consciences of dissenters . . to the parity of reason as to our separation from rome . . such as relate to the constitution of our church : which are these , . that our parochial churches are not of christ's institution . . that our diocesan churches are unlawfull . . that our national church hath no foundation . . that the people are deprived of their right in the choice of their pastours . . i begin with our parochial churches ; because it is separation from these , with which we principally charge our adversaries ; for herein they most discover their principles of separation , since in former times , the non-conformists thought it their duty to keep up communion with them . but since the congregational way hath prevailed in england , the present dissenters are generally fallen into the practice of it , whatever their principles are , at least so far as concerns forsaking communion with our parochial churches , and joyning together in separate congregations for divine worship . this principle is therefore the first thing to be examined . and the main foundation of that way , i said , was , that communion in ordinances must be onely in such churches as christ himself instituted by unalterable rules , which were onely particular and congregational churches . concerning which i laid down two things . ( . ) that supposing congregational churches to be of christ's institution , this was no reason for separation from our parochial churches , which have all the essentials of such true churches in them . ( . ) that there is no reason to believe that the institution of churches was limited to particular congregations . in answer to this dr. o. saith these things , ( . ) that they do not deny , at least some of our parochial churches to be true churches : but why then do they deny communion with them ? but , he saith , he hopes it will not be made a rule , that communion may not be withheld ( so the sense must be although not be left out ) or withdrawn from any church in any thing , so long as it continues as unto the essence of it to be so . this is somewhat odly and faintly expressed . but as long as he grants , that our parochial churches are not guilty of such heinous errours in doctrine , or idolatrous practice in worship as to deprive them of the being and nature of churches , i do assert it to be a sin to separate from them . not but that i think , there may be a separation without sin , from a society retaining the essentials of a church ; but then i say , the reason of such separation is , some heinous errour in doctrine , or some idolatrous practice in worship , or some tyranny over the consciences of men ; which may not be such , as to destroy true baptism ; and therefore consistent with the essentials of a church . and this is all that i know the protestant writers do assert in this matter . ( . ) he answers , that they do not say , that because communion in ordinances must be onely in such churches as christ hath instituted , that therefore it is lawfull and necessary to separate from parochial churches , but if it be on other grounds necessary so to separate or withhold communion from them , it is the duty of them who doe so , to joyn themselves in or unto some other particular congregation . to which i reply , that this is either not to the business , or it is a plain giving up the cause of independency . for , wherefore did the dissenting brethren so much insist upon their separate congregations , when not one of the things , now particularly alleged against our church , was required of them ? but if he insists on those things common to our church with other reformed churches , then they are such things , as he supposes contrary to the first institution of churches ; and then i intreat him to tell me , what difference there is , between separating from our churches because communion in ordinances is onely to be enjoy'd in such churches as christ hath instituted ; and separating from them because they have things repugnant to the first institution of churches ? is not this the primary reason of separation , because christ hath appointed unalterable . rules for the government of his church ; which we are bound to observe , and which are not observed in parochial churches ? indeed , the most immediate reason of separation from such a church is not observing christ's institution ; but the primary ground is , that christ hath settled such rules for churches which must be unalterably observed . let us then ( . ) suppose , that christ hath by unalterable rules appointed that a church shall consist onely of such a number of men as may meet in one congregation , so qualified ; and that these by entring into covenant with each other become a church , and choose their officers , who are to teach , and admonish and administer sacraments , and to exercise discipline by the consent of the congregation ; and let us ( . ) suppose such a church not yet gathered , but there lies fit matter for it dispersed up and down in several parishes . ( . ) let us suppose dr. o. about to gather such a church . ( . ) let us suppose not one thing peculiar to our church required of these members ; neither the aëreal sign of the cross , nor kneeling at the communion , &c. i desire then to know , whether dr. o. be not bound by these unalterable rules to draw these members from communion with their parochial churches , on purpose that they might form a congregational church , according to christ's institution ? either then he must quit these unalterable rules , and the institution of christ ; or he must acknowledge that setting up a congregational church is the primary ground of their separation from our parochial churches . if they do suppose but one of those ordinances wanting which they believe christ hath instituted in particular churches , do they not believe this a sufficient ground for separation ? it is not therefore any reason peculiar to our church , which is the true cause of their separation ; but such reasons as are common to all churches , that are not formed just after their own model . if there be then unalterable rules for congregational churches , those must be observed , and separation made in order to it ; and therefore separation is necessary upon dr. o.'s grounds , not from the particular conditions of communion with us , but because our parochial churches are not formed after the congregational way . but this was a necessary piece of art at this time , to keep fair with the presbyterian party , and to make them believe ( if they can be so forgetfull ) that they do not own separation from their churches , but onely from ours , the contrary whereof is so apparent from the debates with the dissenting brethren , and the setting up congregational churches in those days , that they must be forgetfull indeed , who do not remember it . have those of the congregational way since alter'd their judgments ? hath dr. o. yielded , that in case some terms of communion in our church were not insisted upon , they would give over separation ? were not their churches first gathered out of presbyterian congregations ? and if presbytery had been settled upon the kings restauration , would they not have continued their separation ? why then must our church now be accused for giving the occasion to the independent separation , when it is notoriously otherwise ; and they did separate and form their churches , upon reasons common to our church with all other reformed churches ? this is more artificial than ingenuous . sect. . as to the second , dr. o. answers , that it is so clear and evident in matter of fact , and so necessary from the nature of the thing , that the churches planted by the apostles were limited to congregations , that many wise men , wholly unconcerned in our controversies , do take it for a thing to be granted by all without dispute . and for this two testimonies are alleged , of iustice hobart , and father paul ; but neither of them speaks to the point . all that chief iustice hobart saith is , that the primitive church in its greatest purity , was but voluntary congregations of believers submitting themselves to the apostles , and after to other pastours . methinks dr. o. should have left this testimony to his friend l. du moulin , it signifies so very little to the purpose ; or rather , quite overthrows his hypothesis ; as appears by these two arguments . ( . ) those voluntary congregations over which the apostles were set , were no limited congregations of any one particular church ; but those congregations over whom the apostles were set , are those of which iustice hobart speaks . and therefore it is plain he spake of all the churches which were under the care of the apostles , which he calls voluntary congregations . ( . ) those voluntary congregations over whom the apostles appointed pastours after their decease , were no particular congregations in one city ; but those of whom iustice hobart speaks , were such ; for he saith , they first submitted to the apostles , and after to other pastours . but iustice hobart could not be such a stranger to antiquity to believe that the christians in the age after the apostles amounted but to one congregation in a city . and therefore , if he consults iustice hobart 's honour or his own , i advise him to let it alone for the future . as to the testimony of father paul , it onely concerns the democratical government of the church , and i wonder how it came into this place ; i shall therefore consider it in its due season . sect. . i come therefore to consider now , the evidence for the institution of congregational churches ; concerning which , these are my words . it is possible at first , there might be no more christians in one city than could meet in one assembly for worship ; but where doth it appear , that when they multiplied into more congregations , they did make new and distinct churches under new officers with a separate power of government ? of this i am well assured , there is no mark or footstep in the new testament , or the whole history of the primitive church . i do not think it will appear credible to any considerate man , that the christians in the church of ierusalem made one stated and fixed congregation for divine worship ; not , if we make all the allowances for strangers which can be desired : but if this were granted , where are the unalterable rules , that as soon as the company became too great for one particular assembly , they must become a new church under peculiar officers and an independent authority ? to this dr. o. answers in four particulars . . that an account may e're long be given of the insensible deviation of the first churches after the decease of the apostles from the rule of the first institution : which although at first it began in matters of small moment ; yet still they increased untill they issued in a fatal apostasy ; or as he after expresses it , leaving their infant state , by degrees , they at last brought forth the man of sin. but i do not understand how this at all answers the former paragraph of my sermon concerning the first institution of churches ; but being i suppose intended for a reason why he doth not afterwards answer to the evidence out of antiquity , i shall not onely so far take notice of it , as to let him know , that when that is done , i do not question , but the primitive church will find sufficient advocates in the church of england : but i desire that undertaker to consider , what a blot and dishonour it will be to christian religion , if the primitive churches could not hold to their first institution , not for one age after the apostles . i know what abominable heresies there were soon after , if not in the apostles days ; but the question is not concerning these , but the purest and best churches ; and about them , not whether some trifling controversies might not arise , and humane infirmities be discovered ; but whether they did deviate from the plain institutions of christ , and the unalterable rules of government which he had fixed in his church ? this seems utterly incredible to me upon this consideration among many others : that government is so nice and tender a thing , that every one is so much concerned for his share in it , that men are not easily induced to part with it . let us suppose the government of the church to have been democratical at first , as dr. o. seems to doe ; is it probable , that the people would have been wheadled out of the sweetness of government so soon and made no noise about it ? yea dr. o. tells us that in cyprian's time it continued at carthage ; and others say , a great deal longer : there was then no such change as to this part of the government so soon after . and why should we imagin it otherwise , as to extent of power and iurisdiction ? suppose christ had limited the power of a church to one congregation ; the pastour of that church could have no more pretence over any other congregation , than dr. o. by being pastour over one congregation in london , could challenge a right to govern all the independent congregations in london or about it ; and appoint their several teachers , and call them to an account for their proceedings . i appeal now to any man of consideration , whether there be the least probability that such an alteration could be made without great noise and disturbance ? would not mr. g. mr. b. mr. c. and many more , think themselves concerned to stand up for their own rights ? and if they could be drawn into the design , would the people submit ? let us put the case , as to new-england . suppose the apostles an age or two since , had planted such congregational churches there , as have been formed within these last years at plimouth , boston , hereford , newhaven , &c. and had invested every congregation with the full power of the keys , the execution whereof they had intrusted with the several elderships , within their own congregation ; but so , as not to have any power or authority , over the elders or members of any other congregation : let us then suppose , that after the decease of the apostles , these churches gradually declined so far , that in this age mr. cotton at boston should take upon him the whole power of the keys , and not onely so , but appoint pastours over other congregations , and keep a great number of elders under him , and challenge the ecclesiastical iurisdiction over the whole colony of massachusets , of which boston is the chief town , and so three others doe the same at the chief places of the other colonies ; would not this be a wonderfull alteration of the church government ? and is it possible to conceive , such a change should be brought about insensibly , without any complaint of the subordinate elders , or the members of the congregations , who were robbed of their inherent right by an institution of christ , and so late an establishment by the apostles ? doctrines may be insensibly changed by continuing the names and altering opinions , through the carelesness and unskilfulness of people : but in matters of government , the meanest people are sensible , and look big with an opinion of it . if therefore it be not conceivable in this case , the government should be thus changed from the institution of christ in so short a time ; let the same consideration be applied to the ages which really succeeded the apostles . sect. . i shall , to prevent all cavils , choose that very church which dr. o. mentions , and i find mr. cotton and others make their appeals to , and that is the church of carthage in saint cyprian's time . here dr. o. finds the community of members determining church affairs ; but mr. cotton hath further discovered the judgment of the elders , the votes of the congregation , and the consent of neighbour ministers ; in short , he hath found there , the express and lively lineaments of the very body of congregational discipline ; and the same for substance wherein they walk ( as he calls it ) at this day . hitherto then , there was no deviation from the unalterable rules of christ. let us therefore impartially consider , what the government of the church of carthage then was : concerning which these things may be observed . . that there was a great number of presbyters belonging to the church of carthage , and therefore not probable to be one single congregation . this appears from saint cyprian's epistles to them in his retirement . in one he gives them advice how to visit the confessours in prison , which he would have them to doe by turns , every one taking a deacon with him because the change of persons would be less invidious : and considering the number of confessours and the frequent attendance upon them , the number of presbyters and deacons must be considerable . when he sent numidicus to be placed among the presbyters at carthage , he gives this reason of it , that he might adorn the plenty of his presbyters with such worthy men , it being now impaired by the fall of some , during the persecution . in the case of philumanus , fortunatus and favorinus , he declares he would give no judgment , cùm multi adhuc de clero absentes sint , when many of his clergy were absent . and in another epistle he complains , that a great number of his clergy were absent , and the few that were remaining were hardly sufficient for their work . at one time felicissimus and five presbyters more did break communion with the church at carthage ; and then he mentions britius , rogatianus and numidicus , as the chief presbyters remaining with them ; besides deacons and inferiour ministers . about the same time cornelius bishop of rome mentions presbyters he had with him in that city . and in constantinople of old , saith iustinian in his novels , were presbyters ( for in one he saith , the custom was to determin the number , and in another , that was to be the number at constantinople . ) let any one now consider , whether these churches that had so many presbyters were single congregations ; and at carthage , we have this evidence of the great numbers of christians ; that in the time of persecution , although very many stood firm , yet the number of the lapsed was so great , that saint cyprian saith , every day thousands of tickets were granted by the martyrs and confessours in their behalf for reconciliation to the church : and in one of those tickets sometimes might be comprehended twenty or thirty persons , the form being communicet ille cum suis. is it then probable this church at carthage should consist of one single congregation ? . these presbyters and the whole church were under the particular care and government of saint cyprian as their bishop . some of the presbyters at carthage took upon them to meddle in the affairs of discipline , without consulting their bishop then in his retirement . saint cyprian tells them they neither considered christ's command , nor their own place , nor the future iudgment of god , nor the bishop who was set over them , and had done that which was never done in foregoing times , to challenge those things to themselves , with the contempt and reproach of their bishop , which was to receive penitents to communion without imposition of hands by the bishop and his clergy . wherein , he vindicates the martyrs and confessours in his following epistle , saying , that such an affront to their bishop was against their will : for they sent their petitions to the bishop , that their causes might be heard when the persecution was over . in another epistle to the people of carthage on the same occasion , he complains of these presbyters , that they did not episcopo honorem sacerdotii sui & cathedrae reservare , reserve to the bishop the honour which belonged to his place : and therefore charges , that nothing further be done in this matter till his return , when he might consult with his fellow-bishops . celerinus sends to lucian a confessour , to beg him for a letter of grace for their sisters numeria and candida who had fallen . lucian returns him answer , that paulus before his martyrdom had given him authority to grant such in his name , and that all the martyrs had agreed to such kindness to be shewed to the lapsed ; but with this condition that the cause was to be heard before the bishop , and upon such discipline as he should impose , they were to be received to communion . so that though lucian was extreamly blamed for relaxing the discipline of the church ; yet neither he nor the other martyrs would pretend to doe any thing without the bishop . cyprian gives an account of all that had passed in this matter to moses and maximus two roman presbyters and confessours ; they return him answer , that they were very glad he had not been wanting to his office , especially in his severe reproving those who had obtained from presbyters the communion of the church in his absence . in his epistle to the clergy of carthage he mightily blames those who communicated with those persons who were reconciled to the church meerly by presbyters without him ; and threatens excommunication to any presbyters or deacons who should presume to doe it . the roman clergy in the vacancy of the see , take notice of the discretion of the martyrs in remitting the lapsed to the bishop , as an argument of their great modesty , and that they did not think the discipline of the church belonged to them : and they declare their resolution , to doe nothing in this matter , till they had a new bishop . by which we see the power of discipline was not then supposed to be in the congregation , or that they were the first subject of the power of the keys ; but that it was in the bishop as superiour to the presbyters . and that they were then far from thinking it in the power of the people , to appoint and ordain their own officers , saint cyprian sends word to the church of carthage , that he had taken one aurelius into the clergy ; although his general custom was in ordinations to consult them before , and to weigh together the manners and deserts of every one : which is quite another thing from an inherent right to appoint and constitute their own church-officers : the same he doth soon after , concerning celerinus and numidicus . when he could not go among them himself , by reason of the persecution , he appoints caldonius and fortunatus two bishops , and rogatianus and numidicus two presbyters , to visit in his name ; and to take care of the poor , and of the persons fit to be promoted to the clergy . who give an account in the next epistle , that they had excommunicated felicissimus and his brethren for their separation . . that saint cyprian did believe that this authority which he had for governing the church was not from the power of the people , but from the institution of christ. so upon the occasion of the martyrs invading the discipline of the church , he produceth that saying of christ to saint peter , thou art peter , &c. and whatsoever you shall bind , &c. from whence , saith he , by a constant succession of times , such a course hath been always observed in the church , that the church hath been still governed by bishops , and every act of the church hath been under their care and conduct . since this , saith he , is a divine institution , i wonder at the boldness of those who have written at that rate to me ( concerning the lapsed ) since the church consists in the bishop , the clergy and the standing people . in his epistle to antonianus , he speaks of the agreement of the bishops throughout the whole world : and in that to cornelius , that every bishop hath a part of the flock committed to him , which he is to govern and to give an account thereof to god : and that a bishop in the church is in the place of christ ; and that disobedience to him is the cause of schisms and disorders . to the same purpose he speaks in his epistle to rogatianus , and to pupianus ; where he declares a church to be a people united to a bishop ; and to stephanus , that they have succeeded the apostles in a constant course . let the reader now judge , whether these be the strokes and lineaments of the congregational way ; and whether dr. o. had any reason to appeal to saint cyprian for the democratical government of the church . but we have this advantage from this appeal , that they do not suppose any deviation then from the primitive institution , and what that was in saint cyprian's judgment any one may see ; when he speaks of nothing peculiar to his own church , but what was generally observed over the christian world . and now let dr. o. give an account , how a change so great , so sudden , so universal , should happen in the christian world , in the government of the church ; that when christ had placed the power in the people , the bishops in so short a time should be every where settled , and allowed to have the chief management in church-affairs , without any controul from the people : which to me is as strong an argument as a matter of this nature will bear , that the power was at first lodged in them , and not in the people . for , as mr. noys of new-england well argues , it is not imaginable that bishops should come by such power , as is recorded in ecclesiastical history , and that over all the world ; and in a way of ambition , in such humbling times , without all manner of opposition for years together , and immediately after the apostles ; had it been usurpation or innovation . when and where is innovation without opposition ? would not elders , so many seeing and knowing men , at least some of them , have contended for truth , wherein their own liberties and rights were so much interessed ? aërius his opposing of bishops , so long after their rise and standing , is inconsiderable . the force of which reasoning , will sway more with an impartial and ingenuous mind , than all the difficulties i ever yet saw on the other side . so much for the account dr. o. promises of the deviations of the churches after the apostles decease . sect. . ( . ) dr. o. answers as to the matter of fact concerning the institution of congregational churches , that it seems to him evidently exemplified in the scripture . the matter of fact is , that when churches grew too big for one single congregation in a city , then a new congregational church was set up under new officers , with a separate power of government . let us now see dr. o.'s proof of it . for although it may be there is not express mention made that these or those particular churches did divide themselves into more congregations with new officers : i. e. although the matter of fact be not evident in scripture : yet , saith he , there are instances of the erection of new particular congregations in the same province . but what is this to the proof of the congregational way ? the thing i desired was , that when the christians in one city multiplied into more congregations , they would prove , that they did make new and distinct churches ; and to exemplifie this he mentions new congregations in the same province . who ever denied or disputed that ? on the contrary , the proof of this , is a great advantage to our cause ; for since , where the scripture speaks of the churches of a province , it speaks of them as of different churches ; but when it mentions the christians of one city , it calls them the church of that city ( as the church of ierusalem , the church of ephesus ; but the churches of iudea , galilee and samaria ) what can be more evident , than that the christians of one city , though never so numerous , made but one church ? if one observe the language of the new testament , one may find this observation not once to fail : that where churches are spoken of in the plural number , they are the churches of a province , as the churches of iudea , the churches of asia ; the churches of syria and cilicia ; the churches of galatia ; the churches of macedonia ; but where all the christians of one city are spoken of , it is still c●lled the church of that city ; as the church at antioch ; the church at corinth ; and when the churches are spoken of together , they are the churches ; but when spoken to single , it is the church of ephesus , the church of smyrna , &c. which being spoken , without any discrimination , as to the difference of these places , in greatness and capacity , or the number of believers in them , doth evidently discover that what number soever they were , they were all but the church of that city . for it is not to be supposed that the number of christians was no greater in ephesus , sardis , pergamus and laodicea , which were great and populous cities , than in thyatira and philadelphia , which were much less ; especially , considering the time saint paul staid at ephes●s ; and the mighty success which he had in preaching there ; which will amount to no great matter , if in three years time , he converted no more , than made up one single congregation . and thus men to serve an hypothesis take off from the mighty power , and prevalency of the gospel . i cannot but wonder , what dr. o. means when after he hath produced the evidence of distinct churches in the same province , as galatia and macedonia , he calls this plain scripture evidence and practice for the erecting particular distinct congregations : who denies that ? but i see nothing like a proof of distinct churches in the same city which was the thing to be proved , but because it could not be proved was prudently let alone : whereas we have plain scripture evidence that all the christians of a city , though never so great , made but one church ; and uncontroulable evidence from antiquity , that the neighbouring christians were laid to the church of the city . all that he saith further to this matter , is , that such churches had power to rule and govern themselves , because in every one of them elders were ordained , act. . . which is again an argument on our side : for if we compare act. . . with titus . . we shall find that ordaining elders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath the same importance with ordaining them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; so that by the church is understood the body of christians inhabiting in one city , as the ' 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 at athens was the whole corporation here ; and particular congregations are but like the several companies , all which together make up but one city . sect. . ( . ) dr. o. saith that the christians of one city might not exceed the bounds of a particular church or congregation , although they had a multiplication of bishops or elders in them , and occasional distinct assemblies for some acts of divine worship . then , say i , the notion of a church is not limited in scripture to a single congregation : for if occasional assemblies be allowed for some acts of worship , why not for others ? if the number of elders be unlimitted , then every one of these may attend the occasional distinct assemblies for worship , and yet all together make up the body of one church ; to which , if he had but allowed a single bishop over these , he had made up that representation of a church , which we have from the best and purest antiquity . and so origen compares the churches of athens , corinth and alexandria with the corporations in those cities ; the number of presbyters with the senates of the cities ; and at last the bishop with the magistrate . but dr. o. adds , that when they did begin to exceed in number , beyond a just proportion for edification ; they did immediately erect other churches among them , or near them . name any one new church erected in the same city , and i yield . and what need a new church when himself allows occasional distinct assemblies for greater edification ? but he names the church at cenchrea , which was a port to the city of corinth ; because of the mighty increase of believers at corinth , act. . . with rom. . . i answer , ( . ) it seems then there was such an increase at corinth , as made them plant a distinct church ; and yet at ephesus , where saint paul used extraordinary diligence , and had great success , there was no need of any new and distinct church . and at corinth he staid but a year and six months , but at ephesus three years ; as the time is set down in the acts. doth not this look very improbably ? ( . ) stephanus byzant . reckons cenchrea as a city distinct from corinth ; and so doth strabo , who placeth it in the way from tegea to argos through the parthenian mountain ; and it is several times mentioned by thucydides as distinct from corinth : and so it is most likely was a church originally planted there , and not formed from the too great fulness of the church of corinth . as to the church of ierusalem , he saith , that the converts were so disposed of or so dispersed , that some years after , there was such a church there , as did meet together in one place , as occasion did require , even the whole multitude of the brethren ; nor was their number greater when they went unto pella . to which i answer ( . ) the force of the argument lies in the being said to be added to the church , before any dispersion , or persecution . in which time we must suppose a true church to be formed , and the christians at that time performing the acts of church-communion : the question then is , whether it be in the least probable , that persons should at that time , make one stated and fixed congregation for divine worship and all the acts of church-communion ? what place was there large enough to receive them , when they met for prayer and sacraments ? dr. o. was sensible of this inconvenience , and therefore onely speaks of the church of ierusalem when these were dispersed ; but my question was about them , while they were together . were they not a church then ? did they not continue in the apostles doctrine and fellowship and breaking of bread and prayers ? but how could then doe all this together ? therefore a church according to its first institution is not limited to a single congregation . ( . ) a church consisting of many congregations , may upon extraordinary occasions assemble together ; as the several companies in a common-hall for matters of general concernment , which yet manage their particular interests apart : so for acts of worship and christian communion particular congregations may meet by themselves ; but when any thing happens of great concernment they may occasionally assemble together ; as in the two debates mentioned act. . . and . . so the several tribes in athens did , at their general assemblies ; which strabo and eustathius say , were . ( . ) there is no number mentioned of the christians that went to pella , neither by eusebius , nor epiphanius who relate the story , so that nothing can thence be concluded ; but if the force lies , in his calling pella a village , i am sure eusebius calls it a city of peraea , beyond iordan ; and epiphanius adds , that they spread themselves from thence to coelesyria , and decapolis , and basanitis . so that all this put together makes no proof at all , that the christian churches by their first institution were limited to single congregations . sect. . ( . ) he answers that he cannot discern the least necessity of any positive rule or direction in this matter , since the nature of the thing and the duty of men doth indispensably require it . but is it not dr. o. that saith that the institution of churches , and the rules for their disposal and government throughout the world , are the same , stable and unalterable ? are all these rules now come to nothing but what follows from the nature of the thing ? is it not dr. o. that saith , that no religious vnion or order among christians is of spiritual use and advantage to them , but what is appointed and designed for them by iesus christ ? doth not this overthrow any other order or vnion among christians but what christ hath instituted and appointed for them ? the question is not about such a constitution of churches as is necessary for performing the duties of religious worship ; for all parties are agreed therein ; but whether church-power be limited to these exclusively to all other vnions of christians ? whether every single congregation hath all church-power wholly in it self , and unaccountably , as to subordination to any other ? how doth this appear from the nature of the thing , and the necessary duties of christians ? i grant the institution of churches was for edification : and i think a great deal of that edification lies in the orderly disposal of things . whatever tends to peace and vnity among christians , in my judgment tends to edification . now i cannot apprehend how a sole power of government in every congregation tends to the preserving this peace and vnity among christians : much less how it follows so clearly from the nature of the thing as to take away the need of any positive rule or direction in this matter . and here the main controversie lies , between us and the congregational churches . is there no positive rule or direction in this matter ? then it follows as much from the nature of the thing , that since peace and order is to be kept up among churches as well as persons , every single congregation ought not to engross church-power to it self , but to stand accountable for the management of it to those who are intrusted with the immediate care of the churches peace . and i cannot yet see , by all that hath been said , how those that break the established order in a church wherein all the substantials of religion are acknowledged to be sound , and set up particular independent churches in opposition to it , can acquit themselves from the guilt of schism , how great and intolerable soever it be thought . as to what concerns the churches in the houses of priscilla and aquila , and nymphas and philemon , i say , that this is to be understood , not of a church meeting in their houses , but of their own families was pleaded by the dissenting brethren who say , most of our divines are of that opinion : and therefore the argument holds against them . and from dr. o.'s discourse i less understand than i did before , what obligation of conscience can be upon any , when they may serve god in their families , in opposition to laws , to keep up such publick congregations as are forbidden by them . for ( . ) he grants that a church may be in a family ; although a family as such be not a church . then the members of a family submitting to the government of the master as their pastour are a true church : for a church , he saith , may consist onely of the persons that belong to a family . then there is no necessity of going out of a family for the acts of church-communion ; especially , when the addition of four more , may provide sufficiently for all the officers they believe necessary to the making up a church . ( . ) all that he saith , is , that there is no such example given of churches in private families in scriptures , as should restrain the extent of churches from congregations of many families . and what then ? the question is not now whether they be lawfull , but whether they be necessary ; for nothing less than a divine command can justifie the breach of a plain law ; but where is that command ? doth not dr. o. appeal to the nature of the thing , and the indispensable duties of men with respect to the end of churches , as his great rule in these cases ? but which of all these necessary duties may not be performed within the terms of the law ? so that no obligation can arise from thence to have congregations of many families . all that he saith further , as to this matter is , that if through non-compliance any disturbance happen , the blame will be found lying upon those who would force others to forego their primitive constitution . then it seems at last the primitive constitution is come to be the ground of non-compliance ; which in this case amounts to separation . but this primitive constitution had need be far better proved , before it can be thought a good ground for breaking the peace of the church and the laws of the land ; and much more , before it can carry off the blame from the persons who break orders and laws to the makers of them . all men no doubt that ever broke laws , if this plea would be admitted , would transfer the blame upon those that made them . and so much for the plea of the congregational party . sect. . . i now come to consider the plea of those , who hold our diocesan episcopacy to be unlawfull . in my sermon , as it is printed , i set down this saying of mr. baxter , that to devise new species of churches ( beyond parochial or congregational ) without god's authority , and to impose them on the world ( yea in his name ) and to call all dissenters schismaticks , is a far worse usurpation , than to make or impose new ceremonies or liturgies . which i said doth suppose congregational churches to be so much the institution of christ ; that any other constitution above these is both unlawfull and insupportable : which is more than the independent brethren themselves do assert . now for our better understanding mr. b. 's meaning , we must consider his design in that place from whence those words are quoted . . he saith , christ hath instituted onely congregational or parochial churches . . that diocesan episcopacy is a new species of churches devised by men without god's authority , and imposed in such a manner , that those are called schismaticks who dissent from it . . that such an imposition is worse than that of ceremonies and liturgies ; and consequently affords a better plea for separation . but to prevent any misunderstanding of his meaning , i will set down his own cautions . . that the question is not whether every particular church should have a bishop with his presbyters and deacons : i.e. whether every rectour of a parish be not a bishop , if he hath curates under him . this he calls parochial episcopacy . . nor , whether these should have archbishops over them , as successours to the apostolical and general overseers of the first age , in the ordinary continued parts of their office. . nor , whether partriarchs , diocesans and lay-chancellours be lawfull , as officers of the king , exercising under him such government of the church as belongeth to kings , to which in such exercise all subjects must for conscience sake submit . . nor , if diocesans become the sole bishops over many hundred parishes , all the parochial bishops and parish churches being put down and turned into curates and chappels , whether a minister ought yet to live quietly and peaceably under them . you will ask then , where lies this horrible imposition , and intolerable usurpation ? it is in requiring the owning the lawfulness of this diocesan episcopacy ; and joyning with parochial churches as parts of it . but wherein lies the unsufferable malignity of that ? . it is making a new species of churches without god's authority . . it is overthrowing the species of god's making : which , according to mr. b. requires two things . . local and presential communion , as he calls it , i.e. that it consists onely of so many , as can well meet together for church society . . the full exercise of discipline within it self by the pastours ; which being taken away , they are onely curates , and their meetings oratories and no churches . this i think is a true and fair representation of mr b. 's opinion in this matter . which tending so apparently to overthrow our present constitution as insupportable , and to justifie separation from our parochial churches as members of a diocesan church ; therefore to vindicate the constitution of our church , i shall undertake these three things . . to shew that our diocesan episcopacy is the same for substance which was in the primitive church . . that it is not repugnant to any institution of christ , nor devising a new species of churches without god's authority . . that the accidental alterations in discipline do not overthrow the being of our parochial churches . . that our diocesan episcopacy is the same for substance which was in the primitive church . this i begin with , because mr. b. so very often makes his appeal to antiquity in this matter . and my first inquiry shall be into the episcopacy practised in the african churches ; because mr. b. expresseth an esteem of them above others ; for in saint cyprian 's time he saith they were the best ordered churches in the world ; and that the bishops there were the most godly , faithfull , peaceable company of bishops since the apostles times . and of the following times he thus speaks , most of the african councils , saith he , were the best in all the world . many good canons for church order were made by this and most of the african councils , no bishops being faithfuller than they . therefore concerning the episcopacy there practised , i shall lay down these two observations . obs. . that it was an inviolable rule among them , that there was to be but one bishop in a city , though the city were never so large , or the christians never so many . this one observation made good , quite overthrows mr. b.'s hypothesis . for upon his principles , where ever the congregation of christians became so great , that they could not conveniently assemble at one place so as to have personal communion in presence , as he speaks ; there either they must alter the instituted species of government , or they must have more bishops than one in a city . for , he saith , the church must be no bigger , than that the same bishop may perform the pastoral office to them in present communion , and for this he quotes thess. . , . heb. . , . i.e. their bishops must be such as they must hear preach , and have conversation with . but that this was not so understood in the african churches , appears by their strict observance of this rule ; of having but one bishop in a city how large soever it was . and how punctually they thought themselves bound to observe it , will appear by this one instance , that one of the greatest and most pernicious schisms that ever happened , might have been prevented if they had yielded to more bishops than one in a city ; and that was the schism of the donatists , upon the competition between majorinus and coecilian ; as the novatian schism began at rome upon a like occasion between cornelius and novatian . now was there not all the reason imaginable upon so important an occasion to have made more bishops in the same city , unless they had thought some divine rule prohibited them ? when there were presbyters at rome , had it not been fair to have divided them ? or upon mr. b.'s principles made so many bishops that every one might have had three or four for his share ? but instead of this , how doth saint cyprian , even the holy and meek saint cyprian , as saint augustin calls him , aggravate the schism of novatian for being chosen a bishop in the same city , where there was one chosen before ? his words are so considerable to our purpose , that i shall set them down . et cum post primum secundus esse non possit , quisquis post unum qui solus esse debeat , factus est , non jam secundus ille sed nullus est . since there cannot be a second after the first , whosoever is made bishop when one is made already , who ought to be alone , he is not another bishop , but none at all . let mr. b. reconcile these words to his hypothesis if he can . what! in such a city of christians , as rome then was , where were presbyters , to pronounce it a meer nullity to have a second bishop chosen ? mr. b. would rather have thought there had been need of bishops ; but saint cyprian who lived somewhat nearer the apostles times , and i am apt to think , knew as well the constitution of churches then , thought it overthrew that constitution to have more bishops than one in a city . at carthage it seems some turbulent presbyters that were not satisfied with saint cyprian's government , or it may be looking on the charge as too big for one , chose one fortunatus to be bishop there : with this saint cyprian acquaints cornelius ; and there tells him , how far they had proceeded , and what mischief this would be to the church , since the having one bishop was the best means to prevent schisms . after the election of cornelius , some of the confessours who had sided with novatian deserted his party , and were received back again at a solemn assembly , where they confessed their fault , and declared , that they were not ignorant , that as there was but one god , and one christ , and one holy ghost , so there ought to be but one bishop in the catholick church . not according to the senseless interpretation of pamelius , who would have it understood of one pope ; but that according to the ancient and regular discipline and order of the church , there ought to be but one bishop in a city . after the martyrdom of cornelius at rome , saint cyprian sends to rome to know who that one bishop was , that was chosen in his place . and the necessity of this vnity , he insists on elsewhere ; and saith , our saviour so appointed it , unam cathedram constituit , & unitatis ejusdem originem , ab uno incipientem sua auctoritate disposuit . which the papists foolishly interpret of saint peter's chair ; for in his following words he utterly overthrows the supremacy , saying , all the apostles were equal ; and a little after , episcopatus unus est , cujus à singulis in solidum pars tenetur . but this is sufficient to my purpose , to shew that these holy men , these martyrs and confessors , men that were indeed dying daily , and that for christ too , were all agreed that a bishop there must be , and that but one in a city , though never so large and full of christians . saint augustin in his excellent epistle to the donatists , gives an account of the proceedings about caecilian after the election of majorinus , and that melchiades managing that matter with admirable temper , offer'd for the healing of the schism to receive those who had been ordained by majorinus , with this proviso , that where by reason of the schism there had been two bishops in a city , he that was first consecrated was to remain bishop , and the other to have another people provided for him . for which saint augustin commends him , as an excellent man , a true son of peace , and father of christian people . by which we see the best , the wisest , the most moderate persons of that time , never once thought that there could be more bishops than one in a city . in the famous conference at carthage between the catholick and donatist bishops , the rule on both sides was , but one bishop to be allowed of either side of a city and diocese ; and if there had been any new made , to increase their number , as it was objected on both sides ; if it were proved , they were not to be allowed : for generally then , every diocese had two bishops of the different parties ; but in some places they had but one , where the people were of one mind ; and nothing but this notorious schism gave occasion to such a multiplication of bishops in africa ; both parties striving to increase their numbers . sect. . obs. . in cities and dioceses which were under the care of one bishop , there were several congregations and altars , and distant places . carthage was a very large city , and had great numbers of christians even in s. cyprians time , as i have already shewed . and there besides the cathedral called basilica major & restituta a , in which the bishops always sate , as victor vitensis saith ; there were several other considerable churches , in which s. augustine often preached when he went to carthage ; b as the basilica fausti ; the c basilica leontiana ; the d basilica celerinae mentioned by * victor likewise , who saith it was otherwise called scillitanorum . the f basilica novarum . the g basilica petri. the h basilica pauli . and i do not question there were many others , which i have not observed ; for victor saith , that when geisericus enter'd carthage he found there quodvultdeus the bishop , & maximam turbam clericorum , a very great multitude of clergy , all which he immediately banished . and without the city there were two great churches , saith victor ; one where s. cyprian suffered martyrdom , and the other where his body was buried , at a place called mappalia . in all he reckons about of the clergy belonging to the church of carthage , taking in those who were trained up to it ; and doth mr. b. imagine all these were intended to serve one congregation ? or that all the christians then in carthage could have local and presential communion , as he calls it , in one church ; and at one altar ? sometimes an altar is taken with a particular respect to a bishop ; and so setting up one altar against another , was setting up one bishop against another , as that phrase is commonly used in saint cyprian and saint augustin ; sometimes for the place at which the christians did communicate , and so there were as many altars as churches . so fortunatus a catholick bishop objected to petilian the donatist , that in the city where he was bishop , the hereticks had broken down all the altars : which is the thing optatus objects so much against them . and that there were altars in all their churches appears from hence , that not onely the oblations were made there , and the communion received , but all the prayers of the church were made at them : as not onely appears from the african code and saint augustin ( which i have mentioned elsewhere ) but from optatus , who upbraiding the donatists for breaking down the altars of churches , he tells them that hereby they did what they could to hinder the churches prayers , for , saith he , illàc ad aures dei ascendere solebat populi oratio . the peoples prayers went up to heaven that way . and that distant places from the city were in the bishops diocese and under his care i thus prove . in the african code , there is a canon that no bishop should leave his cathedral church , and go to any other church in his diocese there to reside ; which evidently proves , that there were not onely more places , but more churches in a bishops diocese . and where the donatists had erected new bishopricks , as they often did , the african council decrees , that after the decease of such a bishop , if the people had no mind to have another in his room , they might be in the diocese of another bishop . which shews , that they thought the dioceses might be so large , as to hold the people that were under two bishops . and there were many canons made about the people of the donatist bishops . in one it was determined , that they should belong to the bishop that converted them , without limitation of distance ; after that , that they should belong to the same diocese they were in before : but if the donatist bishop were converted , then the diocese was to be divided between them . if any bishop neglected the converting the people of the places belonging to his diocese , he that did take the pains in it , was to have those places laid to his diocese ; unless sufficient cause were shewed by the bishop , that he was not to blame . let mr. baxter now judge , whether their bishopricks were like our parishes ; as he confidently affirms . saint augustin mentions the municipium tullense not far from hippo , where there was presbyter and clerks under his care and government : and he tells this particular story of it ; that a certain poor man who lived there fell into a trance , in which he fancied he saw the clergy thereabout , and among the rest the presbyter of that place who bade him go to hippo to be baptized of augustin who was bishop there ; the man did accordingly , and the next easter put in his name among the competentes and was baptized , and after told saint augustin the foregoing passages . it seems the donatists were very troublesome in some of the remoter parts of the diocese of hippo , whereupon saint augustin sent one of his presbyters to caecilian the roman president , to complain of their insolence , and to crave his assistance , which he saith , he did , lest he should be blamed for his negligence , who was the bishop of that diocese . and can we think all these persons had praesential and local communion with saint augustin in his church at hippo ? while he was yet but a presbyter at hippo , in the absence of the bishop he writes to maximinus a donatist bishop a sharp letter , for offering to rebaptize a deacon of their church who was placed at mutagena , and he saith , he went from hippo to the place himself to be satisfied of the truth of it . at the same place lived one donatus a presbyter of the donatists whom saint augustin would have had brought to him against his will , to be better instructed , as being under his care , but the obstinate man rather endeavour'd to make away himself , upon which he writes a long epistle to him . in another epistle he gives an account , that there was a place called fussala , which with the country about it , belonged to the diocese of hippo ; where there was abundance of people , but almost all donatists ; but by his great care in sending presbyters among them , those places were all reduced ; but because fussala was miles distant from hippo , he took care to have a bishop placed among them ; but as appears by the event he had better have kept it under his own care. for upon the complaints made against their new bishop , he was fain to resume it ; as appears by a presbyter of fussala , which he mentions afterwards . however it appears , that a place miles distance was then under the care of so great a saint , and so excellent a bishop as saint augustin was . and could mr. b. have found it in his heart to have told him that he did not understand the right constitution of churches ? how many quaere's would mr. b. have made about the numbers of souls at fussala , and how he could take upon him the care of a place so far distant from him ? and it is no hard matter to guess what answer saint augustin would have given him . but besides this plain evidence of the extent of dioceses , we have as clear proof of metropolitan provinces in the african churches . quidam de episcopis in provinciâ nostrâ , saith saint cyprian ; and yet he speaks of his predecessours times , which shews the very ancient extent of that province , in provinciâ nostrâ per aliquot civitates , saith he again ; which shews that more cities than carthage were under his care . quoniam latius fusa est provincia nostra , in his epistle to cornelius . in the african code it appears the bishop of carthage had the primacy by his place ; in the other provinces by seniority of consecration . victor mentions one crescens , who had bishops under him as metropolitan . and i hope at least for the sake of the african bishops , mr. b. will entertain the better opinion of the english episcopacy . sect. . but that he may not think this sort of episcopacy was onely in these parts of africa , let us enquire into the episcopacy of the church of alexandria . and we may suppose athanasius did not spend all his zeal upon doctrinal points , but had some for the right constitution of churches ; and yet it is most certain the churches under his care could not have personal communion with him . it is observed by epiphanius , that athanasius did frequently visit the neighbour churches , especially those in maraeotis ; of which athanasius himself gives the best account . maraeotis , saith he , is a region belonging to alexandria , which never had either bishop or suffragan in it ; but all the churches there are immediately subject to the bishop of alexandria ; but every presbyter is fixed in his particular village ; and here they had churches erected in which these presbyters did officiate . all this we have expressly from athanasius himself , whence we observe , ( . ) that here were true parochial churches ; for so athanasius calls them churches , and not bare oratories . ( . ) that these had presbyters fixed among them , who performed divine offices there . ( . ) that these were under the immediate inspection of the bishop of alexandria , so that the whole government belonged to him . ( . ) that these were at that distance , that they could not have local communion with their bishop in his church at alexandria . which is directly contrary to mr. baxter's episcopacy . so in alexandria it self , there were many distant churches with fixed presbyters in them , as epiphanius several times observes : and it would be a very strange thing indeed , if so many presbyters should have fixed churches in alexandria , and yet the whole church of alexandria be no bigger than to make one congregation for personal communion with the bishop . but mr. baxter's great argument is , from the meeting of the whole multitude with athanasius in the great church at alexandria to keep the easter solemnity ; whence he concludes , that the christians in alexandria were no more than that the main body of them could meet and hear in one assembly . whereas all that athanasius saith , amounts to no more than this , that the multitude was too great to meet in one of the lesser churches , and therefore a great clamour was raised among them that they might go into the new church ; athanasius pressed them to bear with the inconveniency and disperse themselves into the lesser churches ; the people grew impatient , and so at last he yielded to them . but what is there in all this to prove that all the christians in the whole city were then present , and that this church would hold them all ? if a great assembly should meet at one of the lesser churches in london upon some solemn occasion , and finding themselves too big for that place should press the bishop to open saint paul's for that day before it were quite finished , because of the greater capacity of the church for receiving such a number , would this prove that saint paul's held all the christians in london ? athanasius saith not a word more , than that it was easter , and there appeared a great number of people , such a one as christian princes would wish in a christian city . doth he say , or intimate , that all the christians of the city were present ? that none of them went to the lesser churches ? or were absent , though the croud was so great ? doth he not say , the multitudes were so great in the smaller churches in the lent assemblies , that not a few were stifled and carried home for dead ? and therefore it was necessary to consider the multitude at such a time . in my mind mr. baxter might as well prove that the whole nation of the iews made but one congregation ; because at the dedication of solomon's temple there was so great a multitude present , that one of the lesser synagogues could not hold them . but the argument is of greater force in this respect , that god himself appointed but one temple for the whole nation of the iews : and therefore he intended no more than a single congregational church . but to serve this hypothesis , alexandria it self must be shrunk into a less compass ; although dionysius alexandrinus who was bishop there saith it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a very great city ; and the geographer published by gothofred saith it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an exceeding great city ; so great that it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 past mens comprehension : and ammianus marcellinus saith it was the top of all cities . and for the number of christians there long before the time of athanasius , dionysius alexandrinus saith in a time of great persecution , when he was banished , he kept up the assemblies in the city ; and at cephro he had a large church , partly of the christians of alexandria which followed him , and partly from other places , and when he was removed thence to colluthion , which was nearer the city , such numbers of christians flocked out of the city to him , that they were forced to have distinct congregations : so the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifie , and so athanasius useth them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the christians meeting in several congregations . if there were such a number of christians at alexandria so long before , under the sharpest persecution , is it possible to imagin , in so great a city , after christianity had so long been the religion of the empire , that the number of christians there should be no greater than to make one large congregation ? there is no hopes of convincing men , that can build theories upon such strange improbabilities . i shall onely add one instance more from antiquity , which is plain enough of it self to shew the great extent of diocesan power then ; and that is of theodoret , a great and learned bishop ; and although his bishoprick was none of the largest , yet in his epistle to leo he saith , he had the pastoral charge of churches ; for so many parishes , saith he , are in my diocese , which he had then enjoyed twenty six years . doth mr. b. believe that all the christians in these churches had personal communion with theodoret ? and yet these parishes did not change their species , for he saith , they were churches still . this testimony of theodoret is so full and peremptory , that mr. baxter hath no other way to avoid the force of it , but to call in question the authority of the epistle . but without any considerable ground , unless it be that it contradicts his hypothesis . for , what if theodoret ' s epistles came out of the vatican copy ? is that a sufficient argument to reject them , unless some inconsistency be proved in those epistles , with the history of those times , or with his other writings ? which are the rules , rivet gives for judging the sincerity of them . that epistle which bellarmin and others reject as spurious , is contradicted by other epistles of his still extant ; which shew a full reconciliation between cyril of alexandria and him before his death . and it is supposed , that iohn of antioch was dead some considerable time before cyril ; which manifestly overthrows the authority of it . but what is there like that in this epistle to leo ? when the matter of fact is proved by other epistles ? as to the unreasonable proceedings of dioscorus against him , ( which was the occasion of writing it ) his other epistles are so full of it , that mr. b. never read the rest , if he calls this into question upon that account . that hypatius , abramius and alypius were sent into the west upon theodoret's account , appears by the epistles to renatus and florentius , which follow that to leo. what if several epistles of his are lost , which nicephorus saw , doth that prove all that are remaining to be counterfeit ? but he is much mistaken , if he thinks , there was no other copy but the vatican translated by metius ; for sirmondus tells us he met with another copy at naples , which he compared with the vatican , and published the various readings of the epistles from it . what if leontius saith that hereticks feigned epistles in theodoret ' s name ? doth that prove an epistle wherein he vindicates himself from the imputation of heresie , to be spurious ? what mr. b. means by the printing this epistle alone after theodoret ' s works , i do not well understand , unless he never saw any other than the latin edition of theodoret. but it is a very bold thing to pronounce concerning the authority of a man's writings , without so much as looking into the latest and best editions of them . but there are two things he objects which seem more material . ( . ) that it seems incredible that a town within two days journey of antioch should have churches in it at that time . ( . ) that he proves from other places in theodoret , that it is very improbable that dioceses had then so many churches . . as to the first ; certainly no man in his wits ever undertook to prove , that one such city as cyrus then was , had churches in it . but by cyrus , theodoret means the diocese of cyrus ; as will afterwards appear . if cyrus were taken for the regio cyrrhestica with the bounds given it by ptolemy , strabo and pliny , then there would not appear the least improbability in it , since many considerable cities were within it ; as beroea ( now aleppo ) and hierapolis , and extended as far as euphrates ; zeugma being comprehended under it . the ecclesiastical province was likewise very large , and by the ancient notitiae it is sometimes called euphratensis , which in ammianus his time took in comagena and extended to samosata ( but the regio cyrrhestica before was distinct from comagena as appears by strabo and others ) in that province there was a metropolitan , who was called the metropolitan of hagiopolis , which by the same notitiae appears to have been then one of the names of cyrus , or cyrrhus . but notwithstanding , i do not think the words of theodoret are to be understood of the province , but of his own peculiar diocese ; for theodoret mentions the metropolitan he was under . by cyrus therefore we understand the region about the city , which was under theodoret's care ; within which he was confined by the emperour's order , as he complains in several epistles , and there it is called by him , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , regio cyrrhestica ; and theodoret himself sets down the extent of it in his epistle to constantius , where he saith , it was forty miles in length and forty in breadth . and he saith in another epistle , that christianity was then so much spread among them , that not onely the cities , but the villages , the fields , and utmost bounds were filled with divine grace . and that these villages had churches and priests settled in them under the care of the bishop , appears expresly from a passage in the life of symeon ; where he speaks of bassus visiting the parochial churches ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . if there were then parochial churches settled with presbyters in them , and these under the care of the diocesan bishop , then mr. b.'s hypothesis is utterly overthrown . in his epistle to nomus , he mentions eight villages in his diocese that were overrun with the heresie of marcion , another with the eunomian , another with the arian heresie ; which were all converted by his care : and in another place he saith , he had brought ten thousand marcionists to baptism . in another he mentions the spreading of marcion ' s doctrine in his diocese , and the great pains he took to root it out ; and the success he had therein . and we find the names of many of the villages in his lives , as tillima , targala , nimuza , teleda , telanissus , which are sufficient to shew , that theodoret had properly a diocesan church , and that his episcopal care and authority did extend to many parochial churches ; his diocese being forty miles in length , and as many in breadth . so that mr. b. must reject , not onley that epistle to leo , but the rest too , and his other works , if he hopes to make good his parochial episcopacy ; which is too hard a task to be undertaken , without better evidence than he hath hitherto brought . . but he offers to produce other testimonies out of theodoret to shew the improbability that dioceses had so many churches . the question is not about the bare number of churches in dioceses , which all men know to have been very different ; but about the extent of episcopal power , whether it were limited to one parochial church , or was extended over many . and what is there in theodoret which contradicts this ? i extreamly failed of my expectation , as to the other places of theodoret , which he promised to produce ; for i find five or six places cited out of his history , but not one that comes near any proof of this matter . the ( . ) proves that in a time of persecution at alexandria , nineteen presbyters and deacons were banished to heliopolis in phoenicia , where there were no christians . therefore in theodoret's time , there was no diocesan episcopacy . the ( . ) shews that in a small city of thebais , whither eulogius and protogenes were banished , and there were but a few christians , yet there was a bishop . who ever denied this , where there was a prospect of converting more , as appears by the endeavours of eulogius and protogenes there ? but he ought to have proved that as the christians increased , new bishops were made , which this is very far from . the ( . ) proves that lucius of alexandria was made bishop by force , without any synod of bishops , or choice of the clergy , or request of the people . i suppose by this time , mr. b. had forgotten what he promised to prove from theodoret. but i wonder , how it came into his mind to say the church of alexandria at that time was like a presbyterian church : which i am sure he had not from theodoret , nor from the epistle of peter of alexandria . the ( . ) is intended to prove , that in the time of valens the patriarchal orthodox church of alexandria was but one assembly , which met onely in one place at once . but it is very unhappy , that theodoret shews just the contrary in that place , for he saith , that valens expelled the orthodox christians out of their churches , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , are his very words : to whom , he saith , iovianus had likewise given the new built church . which mr. b. thus translates , valens found the orthodox , even in the great patriarchial city of antioch in possession but of one church , which good jovinian the emperour had given them , of which he dispossessed them . i desire any one who relies on mr. b.'s skill and fidelity in these matters , but to compare this translation with the text in theodoret ; and i dare say , he will see cause to admire it . but if any one can imagin that the patriarchal church of antioch in the time of valens could consist but of one congregation , for my part , i must give him over , as one uncapable of being convinced of any thing by me . i do not speak what the church in a time of great persecution might be driven to , but of what it was in its settled state . the ( . ) is , from terentius his begging one church for the orthodox of valens ; which saith mr. b. intimates their numbers . i am ashamed to reade , much more to confute such arguments as these . for if the papists should desire the liberty but of one church in london , doth that prove they are no more than can make one congregation ? the ( . ) proves that maris was made bishop of dolicha a small town infected with arianism . it is true , theodoret saith , doliche was a little city , and so he tells us , cyrus was no great one ; but he doth not set down the bounds of the diocese ; which for any thing we see in theodoret , might be as large , as , we have evidently proved from him , the diocese of cyrrhus was . let the reader now judge , whether theodoret doth not plainly overthrow mr. b.'s notion of parochial episcopacy . but mr. b. insists upon the institution of christ ; and if christ hath appointed one sort of churches , viz. for personal communion , and men make another , is not this a violation of christ's command , and setting up man against god ? i see no evidence produced for any such institution of christ , which limits episcopal power to a single congregation ; and therefore the extending it to more , can be no violation of christ's command , or setting up a new species of churches , as will appear from mr. b. himself under the next particular . yet mr. b. according to his wonted meekness towards his adversaries , charges me , for speaking against this principle of his , with pleading for presumption , profanation , usurpation , uncharitableness , schism , what not ? what is the reason of all this rage and bitterness ? why , i set down a saying of his , as going beyond the independents in making the devising new species of churches beyond parochial or congregational without god's authority , and to impose them on the world , yea in his name , and call all dissenters schismaticks , a far worse usurpation than to make or impose new ceremonies or liturgies . but is not all this true supposing that such new species of churches be so devised and so imposed ? that is not to the business ; for that which i quoted it for , was to shew that mr. b. looked upon all churches beyond parochial , as churches meerly of mens devising ; and that to charge men with schism for opposing any such constitution is unreasonable ; and that the imposing it as divine , is an intolerable usurpation ; and all this at the same time , when he pretends to write for peace and concord . my business is now to shew sect. . . that such an episcopacy as is practised here , and was so in the primitive church is no devising a new species of churches , nor hath any thing repugnant to any institution of christ. and to prove this , i need no more than one of mr. b. ' s own cautions in his premonition ; viz. that he doth not dispute the lawfulness of archbishops , as he calls them , over parochial bishops , as successours to the apostolical and other general overseers of the first age , in the ordinary continued parts of their office. and what he saith in his own name and others in his plea for peace : there are some of us , that much incline to think that archbishops , that is , bishops that have oversight of many churches with their pastours , are lawfull successours of the apostles in the ordinary part of their work. but i cannot here omit mr. baxter ' s arguments to prove , that the ordinary governing part of the apostolical office , was settled for all following ages . . because we reade of the settling of that form , but we never reade of any abolition , discharge , or cessation of the institution . 〈…〉 affirm a cessation without proof , we seem to accuse god of mutability , as settling one form of government for one age onely , and no longer . . we leave room for audacious wits accordingly to question other gospel institutions , as pastours , sacraments , &c. and to say , they were but for an age. . it was general officers christ promised to be with , to the end of the world , matt. . . which being joyned with the consent of the christian church of the ages succeeding the apostles , that the apostles did leave successours in the care and government of churches , have a great deal of weight in them , and overballance the difficulties on the other side . as upon this occasion i think fit to declare . from whence i argue thus , that which is onely a continuance of the same kind of churches which were in being in the apostolical times is no devising a new species of churches , nor hath any thing repugnant to any institution of christ. but that is the case as to our episcopacy . we intend no quarrel about names : if it be mr. b. ' s pleasure to call our bishops , archbishops , let him enjoy his own fancy . it already appears from saint cyprian , and might much more be made plain from many others if it were needfull , that the bishops of the several churches were looked on as successours to the apostles in the care and government of churches . now the office of mr. b. ' s parochial bishops was onely to attend to one particular congregation ; but the apostolical office was above this , while the apostles held it in their own hands ; and did not make a new species of churches , nor overthrow the constitution of parochial churches . it seems then a strange thing to me , that the continuance of the same kind of office in the church , should be called the devising a new species of churches . but mr. b. runs upon this perpetual mistake , that our english episcopacy is not a succession to the ordinary part of the apostolical power in governing churches ; but a new sort of episcopacy not heard of in the ancient church , which swallows up the whole power of presbyters , and leaves them onely a bare name of curates , and destroyes the being of parochial churches . but if i can make the contrary to appear from the frame and constitution of this church , i hope mr. b. will be reconciled to our episcopal government , and endeavour to remove the prejudices he hath caused in peoples minds against it . sect. . now to examin this , let us consider two things . ( . ) what power is left to presbyters in our church . ( . ) what authority the bishops of our church have over them . i. what power is left to presbyters in our church : and that may be considered two ways . . with respect to the whole body of this church . . with respect to their particular congregations or cures . . with respect to the whole body of this church : and so ( . ) there are no rules of discipline , no articles of doctrine , no form of divine service , are to be allowed or received in this nation ; but , by the constitution of this church , the presbyters of it have their votes in passing them , either in person , or by proxy . for , all things of that nature , are to pass both houses of convocation ; and the lower house consists wholly of presbyters ; who represent the whole presbytery of the nation ; either appearing by their own right , as many do ; or as being chosen by the rest , from whom by indentures they either do , or ought to receive power to transact things in their names . and the custom of this church hath sometimes been , for the clergy of the dioceses to give limited proxies in particular cases to their procuratours . now i appeal to any man of understanding , whether the clergy of this church have their whole power swallowed up by the bishops , when yet the bishops have no power to oblige them to any rules or canons but by their own consent ; and they do freely vote in all things of common concernment to the church ; and therefore the presbyters are not by the constitution deprived of their share in one of the greatest rights of government , viz. in making rules for the whole body . and in this main part of government the bishops do nothing without the counsel of their presbyters , and in this respect our church falls behind none of the ancient churches , which had their councils of presbyters together with their bishops ; onely , there , they were taken singly in every city ; and here they are combined together in provincial synods ; model'd according to the laws of the nation . and when the whole body of doctrine , discipline and worship are thus agreed upon by a general consent , there seems to be far less need of the particular councils of presbyters to every bishop ; since both bishops and presbyters are now under fixed rules , and are accountable for the breach of them . ( . ) in giving orders ; by the rules of this church four presbyters are to assist the bishops ; and to examin the persons to be ordained ( or the bishop in their presence ) and afterwards to joyn in the laying on of hands upon the persons ordained . and is all this nothing but to be the bishop's curates , and to officiate in some of his chapels ? . as to their particular charges ; one would think those who make this objection , had never read over the office of ordination ; for therein ( . ) for the epistle is read the charge given by saint paul to the elders at miletus , act. . or the third chapter of the first epistle to timothy ; concerning the office of a bishop . what a great impertinency had both these been , if the presbyters power had been quite swallowed up by the bishops ? but it hence appears , that our church looked on the elders at ephesus , and the bishop in timothy to be presbyters , as yet under the care and government of the apostles , or such as they deputed for that office , such as timothy and titus were . which i suppose is the true meaning of saint ierome and many other doubtfull passages of antiquity , which relate to the community of the names of bishop and presbyter , while the apostles governed the church themselves . and at this time timothy being appointed to this part of the apostolical office of government , the bishops mentioned in the epistle to him , may well enough be the same with the presbyters in the epistle to titus , who was appointed to ordain elders in every city , titus . . ( . ) in the bishop's exhortation to them that are to be ordained , he saith , now we exhort you in the name of the lord iesus christ , to have in remembrance into how high a dignity , and to how chargeable an office ye be called , that is to say , the messengers and watchmen , the pastours and stewards of the lord , to teach , to premonish , to feed and provide for the lord's family , &c. have always therefore printed in your remembrance , how great a treasure is committed to your charge ; for they be the sheep of christ which he bought with his death , and for whom he shed his bloud . the church and congregation whom you must serve is his spouse and body . and if it shall chance the same church , or any member thereof , to take any hurt or hinderance , by reason of your negligence , you know the greatness of the fault and of the horrible punishment which will ensue , &c. is this the language of a church which deprives presbyters of the due care of their flocks , and makes parochial congregations to be no churches ? ( . ) the person to be ordained doth solemnly promise to give faithfull diligence to minister the doctrine and sacraments , and the discipline of christ as the lord hath commanded , and as this realm hath received the same , according to the commandments of god , so that he may teach the people committed to his cure and charge , with all diligence to keep and observe the same . here we see a cure and charge committed to the presbyters ; preaching and administration of sacraments required of them ; and the exercise of discipline as far as belongs to them , ( of which afterwards ) : but now in the consecration of a bishop , this part is left out , and instead of that it is said , that he is called to the government of the church ; and he is required to correct and punish such as be unquiet , disobedient and criminous in his diocese . so that the more particular charge of souls is committed to every pastour over his own flock , and the general care of government and discipline is committed to the bishop ; as that which especially belongs to his office as distinct from the other . sect. . ii. which is the next thing to be considered , viz. what authority the bishop hath , by virtue of his consecration , in this church ? and that , i say , is what mr. b. calls the ordinary parts of the apostolical authority ; which lies in three things , government , ordination and censures . and that our church did believe our bishops to succeed the apostles in those parts of their office , i shall make appear by these things . ( . ) in the preface before the book of ordination , it is said , that it is evident unto all men , diligently reading holy scripture , and ancient authours , that from the apostles time , there have been these orders of ministers in christ's church , bishops , priests and deacons . what is the reason that they express it thus , from the apostles time , rather than in the apostles times , but that they believed , while the apostles lived , they managed the affairs of government themselves ; but as they withdrew , they did in some churches sooner , and in some later , as their own continuance , the condition of the churches , and the qualification of persons were , commit the care and government of churches to such persons whom they appointed thereto ? of which , we have an uncontroulable evidence in the instances of timothy and titus ; for the care of government was a distinct thing from the office of an evangelist ; and all their removes do not invalidate this , because while the apostles lived , it is probable there were no fixed bishops , or but few . but as they went off , so they came to be settled in their several churches . and as this is most agreeable to the sense of our church , so it is the fairest hypothesis for reconciling the different testimonies of antiquity . for hereby the succession of bishops is secured from the apostles times , for which the testimonies of irenaeus , tertullian , saint cyprian , and others , are so plain ; hereby room is left to make good all that saint ierom hath said ; and what epiphanius delivers concerning the differing settlements of churches at first . so that we may allow for the community of names , between bishop and presbyter , for a while in the church , i. e. while the apostles governed the churches themselves ; but afterwards , that which was then part of the apostolical office , became the episcopal , which hath continued from that time to this , by a constant succession in the church . ( . ) archbishop whitgift several times declares that these parts of the apostolical office still remained in the bishops of our church . as for this part of the apostles function , saith he , to visit such churches as were before planted , and to provide that such were placed in them , as were vertuous and godly pastours , i know it remaineth still , and is one of the chief parts of the bishops function . and again , there is now no planting of churches , nor going through the whole world , there is no writing of new gospels , no prophesying of things to come , but there is governing of churches , visiting of them , reforming of pastours and directing of them , which is a portion of the apostolical function . again , although that this part of the apostolical office which did consist in planting and founding of churches through the whole world is ceased ; yet the manner of government by placing bishops in every city , by moderating and governing them , by visiting the churches , by cutting off schisms and contentions , by ordering ministers remaineth still , and shall continue , and is in this church in the archbishops and bishops , as most meet men to execute the same . bishop bilson fully agrees , as to these particulars . ( . ) that the apostles did not at first commit the churches to the government of bishops , but reserved the chief power of government in their own hands . ( . ) that upon experience of the confusion and disorder which did arise through equality of pastours , did appoint at their departures certain approved men to be bishops . ( . ) that these bishops did succeed the apostles in the care and government of churches , as he proves at large ; and therefore he calls their function apostolick . instead of many others , which it were easie to produce , i shall onely add the testimony of king charles i. in his debates about episcopacy , who understood the constitution of our church as well as any bishop in it , and defended it with as clear and as strong a reason . in his third paper to henderson , he hath these words , where you find a bishop and presbyter in scripture to be one and the same ( which i deny to be always so ) it is in the apostles times ; now i think to prove the order of bishops succeeded that of the apostles , and that the name was chiefly altered in reverence to those who were immediately chosen by our saviour . in his first paper at the treaty at newport , he thus states the case about episcopal government . i conceive that episcopal government is most consonant to the word of god , and of an apostolical institution , as it appears by the scriptures to have been practised by the apostles themselves , and by them committed and derived to particular persons as their substitutes or successours therein ( as for ordaining presbyters and deacons , giving rules concerning christian discipline , and exercising censures over presbyters and others ) and hath ever since to these last times been exercised by bishops in all the churches of christ , and therefore i cannot in conscience consent to abolish the said government . in his reply to the first answer of the divines , he saith , that meer presbyters are episcopi gregis onely , they have the oversight of the flock in the duties of preaching , administration of sacraments , publick prayer , exhorting , rebuking , &c. but bishops are episcopi gregis & pastorum too , having the oversight of flock and pastours within their several precincts in the acts of external government . and that , although the apostles had no successours in eundem gradum as to those things that were extraordinary in them , as namely the measure of their gifts , the extent of their charge , the infallibility of their doctrine , and the having seen christ in the flesh : but in those things that were not extraordinary ( and such those things are to be judged which are necessary for the service of the church in all times , as the office of teaching and the power of governing are ) they were to have and had successours ; and therefore the learned and godly fathers and councils of old times did usually stile bishops the successours of the apostles without ever scrupling thereat . many other passages might be produced out of those excellent papers to the same purpose , but these are sufficient to discover that our bishops are looked on as successours to the apostles , and therefore mr. baxter hath no reason to call our episcopacy a new devised species of churches , and such as destroys the being of parochial churches . sect. . . it now remains , that we consider whether the restraint of discipline in our parochial churches doth overthrow their constitution ? to make this clear , we must understand that the discipline of the church either respects the admission of church-members to the holy communion ; or the casting of them out for scandal afterwards . . as to that part of discipline which respects the admission of church-members . the rubrick after confirmation saith , that none shall be admitted to the holy communion , untill such time as he be confirmed , or be ready and desirous to be confirmed . now to capacitate a person for confirmation , it is necessary that he be able to give an account of the necessary points of the christian faith and practice , as they are contained in the creed , the lord's prayer , the ten commandments and the church catechism ; and of his sufficiency herein the parochial minister is the iudge . for he is either to bring or send in writing , with his hand subscribed thereunto , the names of all such persons within his parish , as he shall think fit to be presented to the bishop to be confirmed . now , if this were strictly observed ( and the church is not responsible for mens neglect ) were it not sufficient for the satisfaction of men as to the admission of church-members to the lord's supper ? and i do not see , but the objections made against the discipline of this church might be removed , if the things allowed and required by the rules of it , were duly practised ; and might attain to as great purity , as is ever pretended to by the separate congregations who now find so much fault for our want of discipline . for , even the churches of new-england do grant , that the infant seed of confederate visible believers are members of the same church with their parents , and when grown up are personally under the watch , discipline and government of that church . and , that infants baptized have a right to further privileges , if they appear qualified for them . and the main of these qualifications are , understanding the doctrine of faith , and publickly professing their assent thereto , not scandalous in life , and solemnly owning the covenant before the church . taking this for the baptismal covenant , and not their church covenant , our church owns the same thing , onely it is to be done before the bishop instead of their congregation . but the minister is to be judge of the qualifications , which mr. baxter himself allows in this case . who grants the profession of faith to be a condition of right before the church ; and then adds , that such profession is to be tried , judged and approved by the pastours of the church to whose office it belongs ; because to ministers as such the keys of the kingdom of heaven are committed ; and they are the stewards of god's house , &c. which he there proves at large by many arguments . but he complains of the old careless practice of this excellent duty of confirmation . this is a thing indeed to be lamented , that it is too hastily and cursorily performed : but let the fault then be laid , where it ought to be laid ; not upon the church , whose rules are very good , but upon those persons in it who slubber over so important a duty . but is it not more becoming christians in a peaceable and orderly manner to endeavour to retrieve so excellent a means for the reformation of our parochial churches ; than peevishly to complain of the want of discipline , and to reject communion with our church on that account ? and i shall desire mr. baxter to consider his own words , that the practice of so much discipline , as we are agreed in , is a likelier way to bring us to agreement in the rest , than all our disputings will do without it . yea mr. baxter grants , that the presbyters of our church have by the rubrick the trial and approbation of those , that are sent to the bishop for confirmation ; and that the doctrine and practice of the church of england , is for the power of presbyters herein as far as they could desire . this is a very fair confession , and sufficient to make it appear that our diocesan episcopacy doth not overthrow the power of presbyters , as to this part of discipline which concerns admission of church-members to the communion . sect. . . as to that part of church discipline which respects the rejecting those for scandal , who have been church-members . in case of open and publick scandal , our church doth allow if not require the parochial minister to call and advertise such a one that is guilty of it in any wise not to come to the lord's table , until he hath openly declared himself to have truly repented and amended his former naughty life , that the congregation may thereby be satisfied , which before was offended . and in case the offender continue obstinate , he may repel him from the communion ; but so , that after such repelling , he give an account to the ordinary within days ; and the ordinary is then to proceed according to the canon . here is plainly a power granted to put back any scandalous offender from the sacrament , whose faults are so notorious as to give offence to the congregation ; but it is not an absolute and unaccountable power , but the minister is obliged to give account thereof within a limited time to the ordinary . now wherein is it that our diocesan episcopacy destroys the being of parochial churches for want of the power of discipline ? is it that they have not power to exclude men , whether their faults be scandalous to the congregation or not ? or is it , that they are bound to justify what they doe , and to prosecute the person for those faults for which they put him back from the communion ? or is it , that they have not power to proceed to the greater excommunication , that being reserved served to the bishop , upon full hearing of all parties concerned ? but as long as by the constitution of our church every minister in his parish hath power to keep back notorious offenders , it will be impossible to prove from other circumstances that the being of our churches is destroyed by our diocesan episcopacy . mr. b. saith , that if it could be proved , that the lesser excommunication out of our particular congregations were allowed to the parish ministers , it would half reconcile him to the english sort of prelacy ; but if it be so , he hath been in a sleep these years , that could never hear or read of any such thing . it is strange , in all this time , he should never reade or consider the canon , which saith , that no minister shall in any wise admit any one of his flock , or under his care to the communion of the lord's supper , who is notoriously known to live impenitently in any scandalous sin. this is not in the reformatio legum ecclesiasticarum , which he mentions as an abortive thing , published by iohn fox , ( which last any one that hath seen them , knows to be a mistake ) nor in dr. mocket's book which was burnt ; yet not so destroyed , but with some diligence he might have seen it ( but it was for nothing of this kind , that book underwent so severe a censure ; as mr. b. insinuates ; but for seeming to incroach too much on the king's prerogative . ) but i appeal to what mr. b. calls the authorized church canons ; which i think are plain in this case . but mr. b. saith , this is not the lesser excommunication , but a temporary suspension of the ministers own act in delivering the sacrament to such persons . let mr. b. call it by what name he pleaseth ; this is certain , the minister is impowred , is required to doe this ; the question then is , whether this be not such a censure of the church , as to suspend notorious offenders from the sacrament ; and that within the power of the parochial minister ? i grant , this is not the lesser excommunication , according to the vse of this church , for that supposeth the sentence passed ; and is so called by way of distinction from the greater pronounced by the bishop in person , upon extraordinary occasions . but yet it is a church-censure upon offenders , and was accounted a sort of excommunication by the ancient church ; for those who were in the state of penitents were then said to be under a kind of excommunication ; as appears by several passages in s. augustin , produced by spalatensis to this purpose , viz. to prove that there was a penitential excommunication . but mr. b. quotes albaspinaeus to shew that the old excommunication did shut persons out from all other church-communion as well as the sacrament . which is very true of the greater excommunication ; but besides this there were other censures of the church upon offenders , whereby they were suspended from full communion ; but not debarred the hopes of it upon satisfaction given . these were said to be in the state of penitents . it was a favour to the excommunicated to be brought into this state ; and others were never allowed to hope to be restored to communion ; others onely on their death-beds ; others according to the nature and degrees of their repentance ; of which those were left to be iudges , who were particularly intrusted with the care of the penitents . albaspinaeus grants that as long as men remained penitents they were actually deprived of the priviledges of church-communion ; but he saith , the penitents were in a middle state between the excommunicated and the faithfull , being still candidates , as he calls them ; so that all that were penitents were suspended from communion ; but not wholly cast out of the church ; because the christians might as freely converse with these , as with any , but they were not allowed to participate in the sacred mysteries . but there was no question , wherever there was a power to suspend any persons from communion , there was a power of discipline ; because the churches discipline did not consist merely in the power of excommunication ; no more than a iudges power lies onely in condemning men to be hanged ; but in so governing the members of the church , that scandalous persons may be kept from the greatest acts of communion , and by admonition and counsel be brought to a due preparation for it . since then our church doth give power to parochial ministers to suspend notorious offenders from the communion , it is thereby evident , that it doth not deprive them of all the necessary and essential parts of church-discipline . but saith mr. b. if a minister doth publickly admonish another by name , not censured by the ordinary , the lawyers tell him he may have his action against him . i answer , . what need this publick admonition by name ? doth the nature of church-discipline lie in that ? suppose a man be privately and effectually dealt with to withdraw himself , is not this sufficient ? i am sure saint augustin took this course with his people at hippo , he perswaded them to examine their own consciences , and if they found themselves guilty of such crimes as rendred them unfit for the holy communion , he advised them to withdraw themselves from it , till by prayers and fasting and alms they had cleansed their consciences , and then they might come to it . here is no publick admonition by name ; and in many cases saint augustin declares the church may justly forbear the exercise of discipline towards offenders , and yet the church be a true church , and christians obliged to communicate with it ; as appears by all his disputes with the donatists . . if a restraint be laid on ministers by law : the question then comes to this , whether the obligation to admonish publickly an offender , or to deny him the sacrament , if he will come to it , be so great as to bear him out in the violation of a law ; made by publick authority , with a design to preserve our religion ? but my design is onely to speak to this case , so far as the church is concerned in it . sect. . if it be said , that notwithstanding this , the neglect and abuse of discipline among us are too great to be justified , and too notorious to be concealed ; i answer , . that is not our question , but whether our parochial churches have lost their being for want of the power of discipline ? and whether the species of our churches be changed by diocesan episcopacy ? which we have shewed sufficient reason to deny . and what other abuses have crept in , ought in an orderly way to be reformed , and no good man will deny his assistance in it . . it is far easier to separate , or complain for want of discipline , than to find out a due way to restore it . no man hath more set out the almost insuperable difficulties which attend it , than mr. baxter hath done ; especially in that , it will provoke and exasperate those most who stand in need of it ; and be most likely to doe good on those who need it least . . the case of our churches now , is very different from that of the churches in the primitive times . for , the great reason of discipline is not , that for want of it the consciences of fellow-communicants would be defiled ( for to assert that , were donatism ) but that the honour of a christian society may be maintained . if then the christian magistrates do take care to vindicate the churches honour by due punishment of scandalous offenders , there will appear so much less necessity of restoring the severity of the ancient discipline . to which purpose these words of the royal martyr king charles i. are very considerable . but his majesty seeth no necessity that the bishops challenge to the power of iurisdiction should be at all times as large as the exercise thereof at some times appeareth to have been ; the exercise thereof being variable according to the various conditions of the church in different times . and therefore his majesty doth not believe that the bishops under christian princes do challenge such an amplitude of iurisdiction to belong unto them in respect of their episcopal office precisely , as was exercised in the primitive times , by bishops before the days of constantine . the reason of the difference being evident , that in those former times under pagan princes , the church was a distinct body of it self , divided from the common-wealth , and so was to be governed by its own rules and rulers ; the bishops therefore of those times , though they had no outward coercive power over mens persons or estates , yet in as much as every christian man when he became a member of the church , did ipso facto , and by that his own voluntary act put himself under their government , they exercised a very large power of jurisdiction in spiritualibus , in making ecclesiastical canons , receiving accusations , converting the accused , examining witnesses , judging of crimes , excluding such as they found guilty of scandalous offences from the lord's supper , enjoyning penances upon them , casting them out of the church , receiving them again upon their repentance , &c. and all this they exercised as well over presbyters as others . but after that the church under christian princes began to be incorporated into the common-wealth , whereupon there must of necessity follow a complication of the civil and ecclesiastical power , the iurisdiction of bishops ( in the outward exercise of it ) was subordinate unto , and limitable by the supreme civil power , and hath been , and is at this day , so acknowledged by the bishops of this realm . . the due exercise of discipline is a work of so much prudence and difficulty , that the greatest zealots for it , have not thought it fit to be trusted in the hands of every parochial minister and his particular congregation . calvin declares , that he never thought it convenient that every minister should have the power of excommunication : not onely because of the invidiousness of the thing , and the danger of the example ; but because of the great abuses and tyranny it may soon fall into , and because it was contrary to the apostolical practice . and to the same purpose , beza delivers his judgment , who likewise gives this account of the discipline of geneva , that the parochial ministers and elders proceed no farther than admonition ; but in case of contumacy they certify the presbytery of the city which sits at certain times and hears all causes relating to discipline , and as they judge fit either give admonition , or proceed to suspension from the lord's supper ; or , which is a rare case , and when no other remedy can prevail , they go on to publick excommunication . where we see , every parochial church is no more trusted with the power of discipline than among us ; nay , the minister here hath no power to repel , but all that he can doe there is to admonish ; and how come then their parochial churches to be true , and not ours ? besides , why may not our ministers be obliged to certify the bishop , as well as theirs to certify the presbytery ? since in the african churches the matter of discipline was so much reserved to the bishop , that a presbyter had no power to receive a penitent into the communion of the church without the advice and direction of the bishop ; and saint augustin proposed it , that whosoever received one that declined the judgment of his own bishop , should undergoe the same censure which that person deserved ; and it was allowed by the council . alipius , saint augustins great friend and legat of the province of numidia , proposed the case of a presbyter under the censure of his bishop , who out of pride and vain-glory sets up a separate congregation in opposition to the order of the church ; and he desired to know the judgment of the council about it ; and they unanimously determined that he was guilty of schism , and ought to be anathematized , and to lose his place . and this was the iudgment even of the african bishops , for whom mr. baxter professeth greater reverence than for any others ; and saith , their councils were the best in the world ; and commends their canons for very good about discipline . but he pretends that a bishop's diocese there , was but like one of our parishes , which i have already refuted at large , by shewing that there were places at a considerable distance under the care of the bishops . so that the bringing the full power of discipline into every parochial church , is contrary to the practice of antiquity , as well as of the reformed churches abroad , which plead most for discipline ; and would unavoidably be the occasion of great and scandalous disorders , by the ill management of the power of excommunication ; as was most evident by the separatists when they took this sword into their hands , and by their foolish and passionate , and indiscreet use of it , brought more dishonour upon their churches , than if they had never meddled with it at all . and in such a matter , where the honour of the christian society is the chief thing concerned , it becomes wise men to consider what tends most to the promoting of that ; and whether the good , men promise themselves by discipline , will countervail the schisms and contentions , the heart-burnings , and animosities which would follow the parochial exercise of it . the dissenting brethren in their apologetical narration do say , that they had the fatal miscarriages and shipwrecks of the separation , as land-marks to forewarn them of the rocks and shelves they ran upon ; and therefore they say they never exercised the power of excommunication . for they saw plainly , they could never hold their people together if they did ; since the excommunicated party would be sure to make friends enough , at least to make breaches among them ; and they holding together by mutual consent , such ruptures would soon break their churches to pieces . besides , this would be thought no less than setting up an arbitrary court of iudicature in every parish ; because there are no certain rules to proceed by ; no standing determination what those sins and faults are , which should deserve excommunication ; no method of trials agreed upon ; no security against false witnesses ; no limitation of causes ; no liberty of appeals , ( if parochial churches be the onely instituted churches , as mr. baxter affirms : ) besides multitudes of other inconveniencies , which may be easily foreseen ; so that i do not question , but if mr. baxter had the management of this parochial discipline in any one parish in london , and proceeded by his own rules ; his court of discipline would be cried out upon in a short time , as more arbitrary and tyrannical , than any bishop's court this day in england : let any one therefore judge , how reasonable it is for him to overthrow the being of our parochial churches , for want of that , which being set up according to his own principles , would destroy the peace and vnity , if not the very being , of any parochial church whatsoever . . that want of discipline , which is in parochial churches , was never thought by the most zealous non-conformists of old , destructive to the being of them . of which i have already produced the testimonies of cartwright , hildersham , giffard , and many others . sect. . and supposing all persons left to the judgment of their own consciences , as to their own fitness for the holy communion , we may observe these things ; which may serve towards the vindication of our parochial churches . ( . ) that the greatest offenders do generally excommunicate themselves ; not daring to venture upon so hazardous a thing , as they account the holy communion to be , for fear of the damnation following unworthy receiving . so that , the most constant communicants , are the most pious and sober and devout christians . ( . ) that if any such do voluntarily come , it is upon some great awakenings of conscience ; some fresh resolutions they have made of amendment of life ; after some dangerous sickness , or under some great affliction ; when they are best inclined , and have strong convictions , and hope for greater strength of grace against the power of temptations . so that whether this sacrament be a converting ordinance or not , by god's institution , yet the preparation and disposition of men's minds before it , puts them into the fittest capacity for divine grace ; if they be not looked on as the effects of it . ( . ) that it is no prejudice to the benefit of this holy sacrament to those who are well prepared , if those who are not , do come to it ; any more than in joyning in prayer or thanksgiving with them . and if the presence of such persons who deserve excommunication and are not excommunicated , do overthrow the being of a church ; then christ and his disciples did not make a church , when iudas was present with them ; as in probability he was , at his last supper . at least , if this kind of discipline had been so necessary , it would never have been left so doubtfull , as it is by the evangelists ; since it had been necessary for the information of the christian church , to have set it down expresly ; not onely that he was not present , but that he ought not to be ; and therefore was cast out before . ( . ) that several presbyterian churches for many years had no discipline at all among them ; nor so much as the lord's supper administred . and were these true churches all that while , and are not ours so now ? nay mr. baxter saith , that some non-conformists have these seventeen or eighteen years forborn to baptize , or administer the lord's supper , or to be pastours of any churches . now i would fain know , what churches these men are of ? some or other they must own , if they be christians ; new churches they have not , they say ; either then they must own our churches to be true , notwithstanding the defect of discipline , or they must be of no church at all . ( . ) that our church is but in the same condition , the church of constantinople and other churches were in , when nectarius changed the discipline of it , or rather took it quite away . for , the poenitentiary , whom he removed for the scandal given , was the person whose business it was to look after the discipline of the church , and to see that all known offenders performed the penance enjoyned them , for satisfaction of the church . and , the consequence of it socrates saith was , that every one was left to the judgment of his own conscience , as to the participation of the holy mysteries . and this socrates saith , he had from eudaemon himself , who gave the counsel to nectarius to take that office away ; which was accordingly done ; and no more restored , saith sozomen : the consequence whereof was , saith he , that every one went to the lord's table , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as his conscience gave him leave , and as he was assured in his own mind . and this example of nectarius was soon followed in other churches , saith sozomen ; and so the discipline of the church decayed . but i hope all those churches did not lose their being , by the loss of discipline . and so much in vindication of our diocesan church government . sect. . i now come to the national constitution of our church . by the church of england , i said , we meant that society of christian people which in this nation are united under the same profession of faith , the same laws of government , and rules of divine worship . and that this was a very consistent and true notion of our national church , i proved from the first notion of a church , which is a society of men united together for their order and government according to the rules of christian religion . and since , the lowest kind of that society , viz. congregations for worship , are called churches ; since the largest society of all christians is accounted a true catholick church ; and both from their union and consent in some common thing ; i said i did not understand why a national society agreeing together in the same faith , and under the same government and discipline , might not be as truly and properly a church , as any particular congregations ? because the narrowness or largeness of extent doth not alter the nature of the thing : the kingdom of france being as truly a kingdom , as the small kingdom of ivetot : and as several families make one kingdom , so several lesser churches make one national . and that this notion was not disagreeing with the importance of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i shewed , that at athens , from whence the word was taken , it did comprehend in it all the several tribes when met together , although every one of those tribes in its particular assembly might be an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 too ; and from thence in the first ages of the christian church , the name of a church comprehended in it the ecclesiastical governours and people of whole cities , and therefore might by parity of reason be extended to many cities united together under one civil government and the same rules of religion . this is the substance of what i delivered upon this subject ; against which all my adversaries have something to say , though not with equal strength , clearness , or temper . dr. owen saith ( . ) that since i make national churches to begin with the dissolution of the roman empire , it fell out a great while after the first institution of churches , and therefore they are not concerned in it : because he supposeth congregational churches to be entire churches of christ's institution , and therefore to have a just right to govern and reform themselves , independently as to any national constitution . to which i answer , that if the churches of christs institution be not limited to particular congregations , as i have already proved , then the gradual increase of churches , till they came to be national , doth not alter any institution of christ ; and consequently the power of those churches must limit and determin that of particular congregations ; or else nothing but disorder and confusion will follow , if every congregation may have a several rule of worship and doctrine of faith , without being liable to an account to any superiour church authority . which is all one , as to suppose that every family may govern it self , because a kingdom is made up of families , without any respect to the laws and constitution of a kingdom . no , saith dr. o. the case is not the same . for god never appointed that there should be no other government but that of families . and where hath he appointed that there should be no other churches but particular congregations ? but god by the light and law of nature , by the ends and use of the creation of man , by express revelation in his word , hath by his own authority , appointed and approved other sorts of civil government . so say i , that god by the light and law of reason , by the ends and use of a christian society , by express institution of the apostolical function in the care and government of many churches did declare , that he did appoint and approve other sorts of church government besides that of particular congregations . for , if god upon the dispersion of the nations after the floud , had appointed twelve princes to have ruled the people in their several dispersions , it had been a plain demonstration he did not intend the several families to have a distinct and independent power within themselves ; but that they ought to be governed according to their appointment ; so in the case of churches ; since christ did appoint twelve apostles to plant , settle and govern churches , and set up rulers in them , but still under their authority , can any thing be plainer , than that these particular churches were not settled with an entire power of governing themselves ? but as in the former case , if we suppose those twelve princes to have led out their several divisions , and to have placed them in convenient seats , and given them general rules for governing themselves in peace and order under such as they should appoint , and as they found themselves decaying , should nominate so many successours as they thought fit for the ruling the several colonies , were they not then obliged to submit to such governours ? without breaking in pieces into so many families , every master governing his family by himself ; which would certainly ruin and destroy them all ; because they could not have strength and union to defend themselves . so it is again in the case of churches , the apostles planted them , and settled such officers in them as were then fit to teach and govern them , still reserving the main care of government to themselves ; but giving excellent rules of charity , peace , obedience and submission to governours ; and as they withdrew from particular churches ( within such a precinct , as crete was ) they appointed some , whom they thought fit to take care of all those churches , and to constitute inferiour officers to teach and rule them ; and therefore in this case , here is no more independency in particular congregations ; than in the other , as to private families ; which is as contrary to the general design of the peace and vnity of christians , and their mutual preservation and defence , as in the former case . in which , we believe the civil government to be from god , although no monarch can now derive his title from such princes at the first dispersion ; and would it not then seem unreasonable to question the succession of bishops from the apostles , when the matter of fact is attested by the most early , knowing , honest and impartial witnesses ? lastly , as in the former case , several of those lesser princes might unite themselves together by joynt-consent for their common interest and security , and become one kingdom : so in the latter case ; several bishops with the churches under them , might for promoting the common ends of christianity , and the peace and establishment of their churches , joyn together under the same common bonds and become one national church : which being intended for the good of the whole so united , and no ways repugnant to the design of the institution , and not usurping upon the rights of others , nor assuming more than can be managed , as an universal pastour must doe ; will appear to be no ways repugnant to any particular command or general rules of the gospel , as the pope's challenge of universal dominion over the church is . which i therefore mention that any one may see , that the force of this reasoning will never justifie the papal vsurpations . but saith dr. o. national provincial churches must first be proved of christ's institution , before they can be allowed to have their power given them by iesus christ. and yet in the case of congregational churches he saith there is no need of any positive rule or direction ; for the nature of the thing it self , and the duty of men with respect to the end of such churches , is sufficient for it . and this is as much as we plead in behalf of national churches , viz. what the nature of a christian society , and the duty of men with respect to the end of it doth require . for , whatever tends to the support of religion , to the preserving peace and vnity among christians , to the preventing dangerous errours and endless confusions , from the very nature of the thing , and the end of a christian society becomes a duty . for the general rules of government lay an obligation upon men to use the best means for advancing the ends of it . it being then taken for granted among all christians , . that christ is the authour or founder of this society which we call the church ; . that he designs the continuance and preservation of it ; . that the best way of its preservation is by an vnion of the members of it ; provided the union be such as doth not overthrow the ends of it : we may reasonably infer , that whatever tends to promote this vnion , and to prevent any notable inconveniencies or mischiefs which may happen to it , is within the design of the first institution ; although it be not contained in express words . sect. . we are now therefore to consider , whether single congregations dispersed and disunited over a nation ; or a combination of them together under some common bonds as to faith , government and worship , be the more likely way to promote religion , to secure the peace and tranquillity of a church . let us then compare these two hypotheses together in point of reason , as to these ends . in the congregational way , there may be as many religions as churches . i do not say there are , but we are arguing now upon what may be , from the nature of the thing . supposing then every congregation to have an entire and unaccountable power within it self ; what hinders but of ten congregations one may be of socinians , another of papists , another of arians , another of quakers , another of anabaptists , &c. and it may be no two of them of the same mind . but if they be , it is meer chance and good hap ; there being no obligation upon them to have any more than mutual forbearance towards each other . let now any rational man judge , whether it appear probable , that so loose and shatter'd a government as this is , should answer the obligation among christians , to use the best and most effectual means to preserve the faith once delivered to the saints , and to uphold peace and vnity among christians ? but supposing all these several congregations united together under such common bonds , that the preacher is accountable to superiours ; that none be admitted but such as own the true faith , and promise obedience ; that publick legal censures take hold upon the disturbers of the churches peace : here we have a far more effectual means according to reason for upholding true religion among us . and that this is no meer theory , appears by the sad experience of this nation , when upon the breaking the bonds of our national church-government , there came such an overpowring inundation of errours and schisms among us , that this age is like to smart under the sad effects of it . and in new-england , two or three men , as williams , gorton and clark discovered the apparent weakness of the independent government : which being very material to this business , i shall give a brief account of it as to one of them . mr. roger williams was the teacher of a congregational church at salem , and a man in very good esteem as appears by mr. cotton's letter to him : he was a great admirer of the purity of the new-england churches ; but being a thinking man , he pursued the principles of that way farther than they thought fit , for he thought it unlawfull to joyn with unregenerate men in prayer , or taking an oath ; and that there ought to be an unlimited toleration of opinions . &c. these doctrines , and some others of his not taking , he proceeded to separation from them , and gathered a new church in opposition to theirs ; this gave such a disturbance to them , that the magistrates sent for him , and the ministers reasoned the case with him . he told them , he went upon their own grounds , and therefore they had no reason to blame him . mr. cotton told him they deserved to be punished who made separation among them ; mr. williams replied , this would return upon themselves ; for had not they done the same as to the churches of old-england ? in short , after their debates , and mr. williams continuing in his principles of separation from their churches , a sentence of banishment is decreed against him by the magistrates , and this sentence approved and justified by their churches . for these are mr. cotton's words , that the increase of concourse of people to him on the lord's days in private , to a neglect or deserting of publick ordinances , and to the spreading of the leaven of his corrupt imaginations , provoked the magistrates , rather than to breed a winters spiritual plague in the country , to put upon him a winters journey out of the country . this mr. williams told them , was falling into the national church way , which they disowned ; or else , saith he , why must he that is banished from the one , be banished from the other also ? and he charges them that they have suppressed churches set up after the parochial way ; and although the persons were otherwise allowed to be godly , to live in the same air with them , if they set up any other church or worship than what themselves practised . which appears by the laws of new england mentioned before : and mr. cobbet one of the teachers of their churches , confesseth that by the laws of the country , none are to be free men , but such as are members of churches . i now appeal to any man , whether these proceedings and these laws do not manifestly discover the apparent weakness and insufficiency of the congregational way for preventing those disorders which they apprehend to be destructive to their churches ? why had not mr. williams his liberty of separation as well as they ? why are no anabaptists or quakers permitted among them ? because these ways would disturb their peace , and distract their people , and in time overthrow their churches . very well : but where is the entireness of the power of every single congregation , the mean while ? why might not the people at salem have the same liberty as those at boston or plymouth ? the plain truth is , they found by experience , this congregational way would not do alone , without civil sanctions , and the interposing of the pastours of other churches . for when williams , and gorton , and clark had begun to make some impressions on their people , they besti●red themselves as much as possible to have their mouths stopt , and their persons banished . this i do onely mention , to shew , that where this way hath prevailed most , they have found it very insufficient to carry on those ends which themselves judged necessary for the preservation of their religion , and of peace and vnity among themselves . and in their synod at boston , , the new-england churches are come to apprehend the necessity of con●eciation of churches , in case of divisions and contentions ; and for the rectifying of male-administrations , and healing of errours and scandals , that are unhealed among themselves : for , christ's care , say they , is for whole churches as well as for particular persons . of which consociation they tell us , that mr. cotton drew a platform before his death . is such a consociation of churches a duty or not , in such cases ? if not , why do they doe any thing relating to church government , for which they have no command in scripture ? if there be a command in scripture , then there is an institution of a power above congregational churches . it is but a slender evasion , which they use , when they call these onely voluntary combinations , for what are all churches else ? onely , the antecedent obligation on men to joyn for the worship of god makes entring into other churches a duty ; and so the obligation lying upon church-officers to use the best means to prevent or heal divisions , will make such consociations a duty too . and therefore in such cases the nature of the thing requires an union and conjunction superiour to that of congregational churches ; which is then most agreeable to scripture and antiquity when the bishops and presbyters joyn together . who agreeing together upon articles of doctrine , and rules of worship and discipline , are the national church representative ; and these being owned and established by the civil power , and received by the body of the nation , and all persons obliged to observe the same in the several congregations for worship ; these congregations so united in these common bonds of religion , make up the compleat national church . sect. . and now i hope i may have leave to consider mr. baxter's subtilties about this matter ; which being spred abroad in abundance of words to the same purpose , i shall reduce to these following heads , wherein the main difficulties lie . . concerning the difference between a national church and a christian kingdom . . concerning the governing power of this national church ; which he calls the constitutive regent part . . concerning the common ties or rules which make this national church . . concerning the difference between a christian kingdom and a national church . a christian kingdom , he saith , they all own , but this is onely equivocally called a church , but , he saith , the christian bishops for years , were far from believing that a prince or civil power was essential to a christian church , or that the church in the common sense was not constituted of another sort of regent part that had the power of the keys . if there be any such christians in the world , that hold a prince an essential part of a christian church , let mr. baxter confute them ; but i am none of them ; for i do believe there were christian churches before christian princes , that there are christian churches under christian princes , and will be such , if there were none left . i do believe the power of the keys to be a distinct thing , from the office of the civil magistrate ; and if he had a mind to write against such an opinion , he should have rather sent it to his learned , sincere , and worthy friend lewis du moulin ; if he had been still living . but if i onely mean a christian kingdom , who denies it ? saith he ; if all this confused stir , be about a christian kingdom , be it known to you that we take such to be of divine command . nay farther , if we mean all the churches of a kingdom associated for concord as equals , we deny it not . what is it then , that is so denied and disputed against , and such a flood of words is poured out about ? it seems at last it is this , that the nation must be one church as united in one saccrdotal head , personal or collective , monarchical or aristocratical . before i answer this question , i hope , i may ask another ; whence comes this zeal now against a national church ? for , when the presbyterians were in power , they were then for national churches , and thought they proved them out of scriptures ; and none of these subtilties about the constitutive regent part did ever perplex , or trouble them . thus the presbyterian london ministers . made no difficulty of owning national churches ; and particularly the church of england ; in these words . and if all the churches in the world are called one church ; let no man be offended if all the congregations in england , be called the church of england . but this you will say , is by association of equal churches . no , they say , it is when the particular congregations of one nation living under one civil government , agreeing in doctrine and worship , are governed by their greater and lesser assemblies , and in this sense , say they , we assert a national church . two things saith mr. hudson are required to make a national church . . national agreement in the same faith and worship . . national union in one ecclesiastical body , in the same community of ecclesiastical government . the old non-conformists had no scruple about owning the church of england , and thought they understood what was meant by it . whence come all these difficulties now to be raised about this matter ? is the thing grown so much darker than formerly ? but some mens understandings are confounded with nice distinctions , and their consciences ensnared by needless scruples . to give therefore a plain answer to the question , what we mean by the national church of england . by that is understood either ( ) the church of england diffusive . or ( ) the church of england representative . . the national church of england diffusive , is , the whole body of christians in this nation , consisting of pastours and people , agreeing in that faith , government and worship , which are established by the laws of this realm . and by this description , any one may see , how easily the church of england is distinguished from the papists on one side , and the dissenters on the other . which makes me continue my wonder at those who so confidently say , they cannot tell what we mean by the church of england . for was there not a church here settled upon the reformation in the time of edward . and queen elizabeth ? hath not the same doctrine , the same government , the same manner of worship , continued in this church ? ( bating onely the interruption given by its enemies . ) how comes it then so hard for men to understand so easy , so plain , so intelligible a thing ? if all the question be , how all the congregations in england make up this one church ? i say , by unity of consent ; as all particular churches make one catholick church . if they ask , how it comes to be one national church ? i say , because it was received by the common consent of the whole nation in parlament , as other laws of the nation are ; and is universally received by all that obey those laws . and t●is i think is sufficient to scatter those mists which some pretend to have before their eyes , that they cannot clearly see what we mean by the church of england . . the representative church of england , is the bishops and presbyters of this church , meeting together according to the laws of this realm , to consult and advise about matters of religion . and this is determin'd by the allowed canons of this church . we do not say , that the convocation at westminster is the representative church of england , as the church of england is a national church ; for that is onely representative of this province , there being another convocation in the other province ; but the consent of both convocations , is the representative national church of england . sect. . and now to answer mr. baxter's grand difficulty , concerning the constitutive regent part of this national church . i say , . it proceeds upon a false supposition . . it is capable of a plain resolution . . that it proceeds upon a false supposition : which is , that whereever there is the true notion of a church , there must be a constitutive regent part , i. e. there must be a standing governing power , which is an essential part of it . which i shall prove to be false from mr. baxter himself . he asserts , that there is one catholick visible church ; and that all particular churches , which are headed by their particular bishops , or pastours , are parts of this vniversal church , as a troop is of an army , or a city of a kingdom . if this doctrine be true , and withall it be necessary that every church must have a constitutive regent part as essential to it , then it unavoidably follows that there must be a catholick visible head , to a catholick visible church . and so mr. baxter ' s constitutive regent part of a church , hath done the pope a wonderfull kindness , and made a very plausible plea for his vniversal pastourship . but there are some men in the world , who do not attend to the advantages they give to popery ; so they may vent their spleen against the church of england . but doth not mr. baxter say , that the universal church is headed by christ himself ? i grant he doth ; but this doth not remove the difficulty ; for the question is about that visible church whereof particular churches are parts ; and they being visible parts do require a visible constitutive regent part as essential to them ; therefore the whole visible church must have likewise a visible constitutive regent part , i. e. a visible head of the church ; as if a troop hath an inferiour officer , an army must have a general ; if a city hath a mayor , a kingdom must have a king , that is equally present and visible as the other is . this is indeed to make a key for catholicks , by the help of which they may enter and take possession . . the plain resolution is , that we deny any necessity of any such constitutive regent part , or one formal ecclesiastical head as essential to a national church . for a national consent is as sufficient to make a national church ; as an vniversal consent to make a catholick church . but if the question be , by what way this national consent is to be declared ? then we answer farther ; that by the constitution of this church , the archbishops , bishops , and presbyters being summoned by the king 's writ are to advise and declare their iudgments in matters of religion ; which being received , allowed and enacted by the king and three estates of the kingdom ; there is as great a national consent as is required to any law. and all bishops , ministers , and people , taken together , who pr●fess the faith so established , and worship god according to the rules so appointed , make up this national church of england : which notion of a national church being thus explained , i see no manner of difficulty remaining in all mr. baxter ' s quaeries and objections about this matter . sect. . . that which looks most like a difficulty is ( . ) concerning the common ties or rules which make this national church . for mr. b. would know , whether by the common rules i mean a divine rule or a meer humane rule . if it be a divine rule , they are of the national church as well as we ; if it be a humane rule , how comes consent in this to make a national church ? how come they not to be of it for not consenting ? how can such a consent appear , when there are differences among our selves ? this is the substance of what he objects . to which i answer ( . ) our church is founded upon a divine rule , viz. the holy scriptures , which we own as the basis and foundation of our faith ; and according to which , all other rules of order and worship are to be agreeable . ( . ) our church requires a conformity to those rules which are appointed by it , as agreeable to the word of god. and so the churches of new-england doe , to the orders of church government among themselves by all that are members of their churches ; and annex civil privileges to them ; and their magistrates impose civil punishments on the breakers and disturbers of them . and although they profess agreement in other things , yet because they do not submit to the orders of their churches , they do not own them as members of their churches . why should it then be thought unreasonable with us , not to account those members of the church of england , who contemn and disobey the orders of it ? ( . ) there is no difference among our selves concerning the lawfulness of the orders of our church , or the duty of submission to them . if there be any other differences , they are not material , as to this business : and i believe are no other than in the manner of explaining some things , which may happen in the best society in the world , without breaking the peace of it . as about the difference of orders ; the sense of some passages in the athanasian creed ; the true explication of one or two articles ; which are the things he mentions . a multitude of such differences will never overthrow such a consent among us , as to make us not to be members of the same national church . sect. . having thus cleared the main difficulties which are objected by my more weighty adversaries , the weaker assaults of the rest in what they differ from these , will admit of a quicker dispatch . mr. a. objects , ( . ) that if national churches have power to reform themselves , then so have congregational ; and therefore i do amiss to charge them with separation . i grant it , if he proves that no congregational church hath any more power over it , than a national church hath : i. e. that there is as much evidence against both episcopal and presbyterial government as there is against the pope's vsurpations . when he doth prove that , he may have a farther answer . ( . ) that national churches destroy the being of other churches under them ; this i utterly deny , and there wants nothing but proof ; as erasmus said one andrelinus was a good poet , onely his verses wanted one syllable and that was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ( . ) by my description the parlament may be a national church , for they are a society of men united together for their order and government , according to the rules of the christian religion . but did i not immediately before say , that national churches are national societies of christians , under the same laws of government and rules of worship ? from whence it is plain that in the next words , when i went about to prove national churches to be true churches , i used such a general description as was common to any kind of church and not proper to a national church . ( . ) he gives this reason why consent should not make national churches as well as congregational ; because it must be such an agreement as the gospel warrants ; and that is onely for worship , and not to destroy their own being . this is the reasoning of a horse in a mill ; still round about the same thing . and therefore the same answer may serve . ( . ) out come mr. b.'s objections , against a visible head of this national church ; and the manner of union , and the differences among our selves ; as though mr. b. could not manage his own arguments , and therefore he takes them and strips them of their heavy and rusty armour ; and makes them appear again in the field , in another dress , and if they could not stand the field in the former habit , they can much less doe it in this . the authour of the letter saith , i onely prove a national church a possible thing . he clearly mistakes my design ; which was to shew that if there be such a thing as a national church , then no single congregations have such a power in themselves to separate from others in matters of order and decency where there is a consent in the same faith. to prove that there was such a thing , i shewed that if the true notion of a church doth agree to it , then upon the same reason that we own particular churches , and the catholick church , we are to own a national church ; so that the design of that discourse was not barely to prove the possibility of the thing ; but the truth and reality of it . but , saith he , can it be proved that christ hath invested the guides of this church , not chosen by the people , with a power to make laws and decrees , prescribing not onely things necessary for common order and decency , but new federal rites , and teaching signs and symbols , superadded to the whole christian institution ? &c. i answer , that such a church hath power to appoint rules of order and decency not repugnant to the word of god , which on that account others are bound to submit to ; and to take such care of its preservation , as to admit none to its privileges but such as do submit to them ; and if any disturb the peace of this church , the civil magistrate may justly inflict civil penalties upon them for it . all which is no more than any settled church in the world asserts , as well as ours . and i wonder this should be so continually objected against our church , which all societies in the world think just and necessary for their own preservation . as to the guides of the church not being chosen by the people , i shall speak to that afterwards . one objection more he makes , which the others did not , viz. i had said that by whole or national churches , i understood the churches of such nations which upon decay of the roman empire resumed their just right of governing themselves , and upon their owning christianity incorporated into one christian society , under the same common ties and rules of order and government . such churches , i say , have a just right of reforming themselves , and therefore are not liable to the imputation of schism from the roman church . would one think , what unlucky inferences he draws from hence ? ( . ) then all that remain within the empire , were bound to continue in the communion of the roman church . what , if i should deny the continuance of the roman empire ? then all would be safe . but do i any where say , that being in the empire , they were bound to submit to the roman church ? no ; but as the nation resumed its just civil rights , the church might as rightfully recover it self from papal vsurpations ; not laying the force of one upon the other , but paralleling them together : and the advantage of the argument is on the churches side . ( . ) then where princes have not resumed their just rights as to reformation , they are schismaticks that separate from rome . that doth not follow : for in the cases before mentioned separation is lawfull ; but no reformation is so unexceptionable , as when there is a concurrence of the civil power . my last adversary doth not deny a national church from consent in the same articles of religion , and rules of government and order of worship ; but then he saith , such ought to be agreeable to the established rule of holy scriptures . and therein we are all agreed . so that after much tugging , this point is thought fit to be given up . sect. . the next thing to be considered , is , the interest and power of the people as to the choice of their pastours ; for want of which great complaints are made by my adversaries , as a thing injurious to them , and prejudicial to the church , and that we therein go contrary to all antiquity . dr. o. puts the depriving the people of their liberty of choosing their pastours among the causes of separation . mr. baxter is very tragical upon this argument ; and keeps not within tolerable bounds of discretion , in pleading the people's cause , against magistrates and patrons and laws : and he tells me , i go against all the ancient fathers and churches for many hundred years , and am so far a separatist from more than one parish priest ; and therefore my charge of them is schismatical and unjust , and recoileth on my self ; who instead of god's rule , accuse them that walk not by our novel crooked rules , which may make as many modish religions as there are princes . when i first read such passages as these , i wonder'd what i had said , that might give occasion to so much undecent passion , as every where almost discovers it self in his answer : and the more i consider'd the more i wonder'd ; but at last i resolved as mr. a. doth about the assembly , that mr. b. is but a man , as other men are ; and for all that i see , of equal passions , and that upon little or no provocation . for i had not said one word upon this argument . what then ? would mr. b. seek a cause to express his anger against me ? as if i had allowed princes to set up what religions they please . surely , he thought himself writing against hobbs and spinosa then . no : but thus he artificially draws me into this snare . i spake much against separation . how then ? they would never have separated , if they had not been silenced ; therefore my being against their separation , shews i am for their silencing . as though these necessarily followed each other . what is this to princes imposing what religion they please ? thus ▪ then magistrates by their laws may put out nonconformists and put in conformists . but have we not the same religion still ? but , saith mr. baxter , these must be my supposed grounds ; that magistrates may appoint what religion they please , and those are separatists who do not obey them . is not this admirable ingenuity , to rail upon a man , for suppositions of his own making ? however mr. baxter will have it so , let me say what i will. the people's part he will take , and let me take that of the magistrates and laws , if i think good ; and since they are fallen to my lot , i will defend them as well as i can , as to this matter . mr. b. appearing very warm in this business , what doth mr. a. coming after him , but make it the very first and fundamental ground of their separation ? viz. that every particular church upon a due ballance of all circumstances , has an inherent right to choose its own pastour , and every particular christian the same power to chuse his own church . nay then , i thought , we were in a very fair way of settlement ; when the anabaptists in germany never broached a looser principle than this ; nor more contrary to the very possibility of having an established church : for it leads to all manner of schisms and factions in spight of all laws and authority in church or state. the authour of the letter goes upon the same principle too , and saith , the guides of the church are to be chosen by the people , according to scripture and primitive practice . this i perceive is a popular argument , and a fine device to draw in the common people to the dissenting party ; whatever becomes of laws , and mens just and legal rights of patronage , all must yield to the antecedent right of the people . but to bring this matter to a strict debate , we must consider these three things . . what original , or inherent right and power the people had . . how they came to be devested of it . . whether there be sufficient ground to resume it . and from thence we shall understand , whether some of the people's consenting to hear the nonconformists preach , notwithstanding the laws , can excuse them from separation ? for this lies at the bottom of all . . as to the original , inherent right and power of the people . dr. o. supposeth all church-power to be originally in the people ; for to manifest how favourable wise men have been to the congregational way , he quotes a saying of f. paul ; out of a book of his , lately translated into english , that in the beginning , the government of the church had altogether a democratical form ; which is an opinion so absurd and unreasonable , that i could not easily believe such a saying to have come from so learned and judicious a person . for was there not a church to be formed in the beginning ? did not christ appoint apostles and give them commission and authority for that end ? where was the church power then lodged ? was it not in the apostles ? did not they in all places , as they planted churches , appoint officers to teach and govern them ? and did they not give them authority to doe what they had appointed ? were not then the several pastours and teachers invested with a power superiour to that of the people and independent upon them ? and if they had such power and authority over the people , how came their power to be derived from them , as it must be , if the church government then were democratical ? besides , is it reasonable to suppose the people should assemble to choose their officers , and convey the power of the keys to them ; which never were in their hands ? and how could they make choice of men for their fitness and abilities , when their abilities depended so much on the apostles laying on of their hands ? for then the holy ghost was given unto them . but in all the churches planted by the apostles , in all the directions given about the choice of bishops and deacons , no more is required , as to the people , than barely their testimony ; therefore it is said they must be blameless , and men of good report . but , where is it said or intimated that the congregation being the first subject of the power of the keys , must meet together , and choose their pastour , and then convey the ministerial power over themselves , to them ? if it were true that the church government at first was democratical , the apostles have done the people a mighty injury ; for they have said no more of their power in the church , than they have done of the pope's . it is true the brethren were present at the nomination of a new apostle : but were not the women so too ? and is the power of the keys in their hands too ? suppose not , doth this prove that the churches power was then democratical ? then the people made an apostle and gave him his power ; which i do not think any man would say , much less f. paul. as to the election of deacons ; it was no properly church power which they had ; but they were stewards of the common stock ; and was there not then , all the reason in the world , the community should be satisfied in the choice of the men ? when saint peter received cornelius to the faith , he gave an account of it to all the church . and what then ? must he therefore derive his power from it ? do not princes and governours give an account of their proceedings for the satisfaction of their subjects minds ? but here is not all the church mentioned ; onely those of the circumcision at ierusalem had a mind to understand the reason of his receiving a gentile convert . and what is this to the power of the church ? but in the council of jerusalem the people did intervene , and the letters were written in the names of all the three orders , apostles , priests and faithfull brethren . i grant it ; but is it not expresly said , that the question was sent up from the churches , to the apostles and presbyters ? is it not said , that the apostles and presbyters met to debate it ; and that the multitude was silent ? is it not said , that the decrees were passed by the apostles and presbyters , without any mention of the people ? and here was the proper occasion to have declared their power ; but in the other place , it signifies no more than their general consent to the decrees that were then made . in success of time , it is added , when the church increased in number , the faithfull retiring themselves to the affairs of their families , and having left those of the congregation , the government was retained onely in the ministers , and so became aristocratical , saving the election which was popular . which account is neither agreeable to reason , nor to antiquity . for , was not the government of the church aristocratical in the apostles times ? how came it to be changed , from that to a democratical form ? did not the apostles appoint rulers in the several churches , and charged the people to obey them ? and was this an argument the power was then in the people ? it was not then the people's withdrawing ( of which there can be no evidence , if there be so much evidence still left for the people's power , in antiquity ) but the constitution of the church was aristocratical by the appointment of the apostles . sect. . we therefore come now to consider the popular elections , as to which there is so fair a pretence from antiquity ; but yet not such , as to fix any inherent , or unalterable right in the people . as i shall make appear , by these following observations . . that the main ground of the people's interest was founded upon the apostles canon , that a bishop must be blameless and of good report . . that the people upon this assuming the power of elections , caused great disturbances and disorders in the church . . that to prevent these , many bishops were appointed without their choice , and canons made for the better regulating of them . . that when there were christian magistrates , they did interpose as they thought fit , notwithstanding the popular claim ; in a matter of so great consequence to the peace of church and state. . that upon the alteration of the government of christendom the interest of the people was secured by their consent in parlaments , and that by such consent the nomination of bishops was reserved to princes , and the patronage of livings to particular persons . . that things being thus settled by established laws , there is no reasonable ground for the peoples resuming the power of electing their own bishops and ministers in opposition to these laws . if i can make good these observations , i shall give a full answer to all the questions propounded , concerning the right and power of the people , which my adversaries build so much upon . ( . ) that the main ground of the peoples interest was founded upon the apostles canon , that a bishop must be blameless , and of good report . for so the greek scholiast argues from that place in timothy , if a bishop ought to have a good report of them that are without , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , how much rather of the brethren , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith theophylact. and both have it from saint chrysostom . so it is said concerning timothy himself , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , who had a good testimony from the brethren in lystra and iconium . and this is mentioned before saint paul's taking him into the office of an evangelist . so in the choice of the deacons , the apostles bid them find out , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , men of good reputation among them . and there is a very considerable testimony in the epistle of clemens to this purpose ; where he gives an account , how the apostles preaching through cities and countries , did appoint their first-fruits , having made a spiritual trial of them , to be bishops and deacons of those who were to believe . here it is plain , that they were of the apostles appointment , and not of the peoples choice ; and that their authority could not be from them , whom they were appointed first to convert and then to govern ; and although their number was but small at first , yet as they increased , though into many congregations , they were still to be under the government of those , whom the apostles appointed over them . and then he shews how those who had received this power from god came to appoint others : and he brings the instance of moses , when there was an emulation among the tribes , what method he took for putting an end to it , by the blossoming of aarons rod ; which , saith he , moses did on purpose to prevent confusion in israel , and thereby to bring glory to god ; now , saith he , the apostles foresaw the contentions that would be about the name of episcopacy ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) i. e. about the choice of men into that office of ruling the church ; which the sense shews to be his meaning : therefore , foreseeing these things perfectly , they appointed the persons before mentioned , and left the distribution of their offices , with this instruction , that as some died , other approved men should be chosen into their office. those therefore who were appointed by them , or other eminent men , the whole church being therewith well-pleased , discharging their office with humility , quietness , readiness , and unblameableness , being men of a long time of good report , we think such men cannot justly be cast out of their office. it seems , some of the church of corinth were at that time factious against some officers in their church , and endeavoured to throw them out for the sake of one or two more , and made such a disturbance thereby as had brought a great scandal , not onely on themselves , but the christian church ; which made clemens write this epistle to them ; wherein he adviseth those busie men rather to leave the church themselves , than to continue making such a disturbance in it ; and if they were good christians they would do so ; and bring more glory to god by it , than by all their heat and contentions . now by this discourse of clemens it is plain , ( . ) that these officers of the church were not chosen by the people , but appointed by the apostles , or other great men , according to their order ? ( . ) that they took this course on purpose to prevent the contentions that might happen in the church , about those who should bear office in it . ( . ) that all that the people had to doe , was to give testimony , or to express their approbation of those , who were so appointed . for he could not allow their power of choosing , since he saith , the apostles appointed officers on purpose to prevent the contentions that might happen about it . and it seems very probable to me , that this was one great reason of the faction among them ; viz. that those few popular men in that church , who caused all the disturbance , represented this , as a great grievance to them ; that their pastours and officers were appointed by others , and not chosen by themselves . for they had no objection against the presbyters themselves , being allowed to be men of unblameable lives ; yet a contention there was , and that about casting them out ; and such a contention , as the apostles designed to prevent by appointing a succession from such whom themselves ordain●d ; and therefore it is very ●ikely , they challenged this power to themselves to cast out those whom they had not chosen . but it seems , the apostles knowing what contentions would follow in the church , took 〈…〉 them , leaving to the people their testimony concerning those whom they ordained . and this is plain , even from saint cyprian where he discourseth of this matter , in that very epistle concerning basilides and martialis , to which mr. baxter refers me . for , the force of what saint cyprian saith comes at last onely to this giving testimony ; therefore , saith he , god appointed the priest to be appointed before all the people , thereby shewing that ordinations in the christian church ought to be , sub populi assistentis conscientiâ , in the presence of the people : for what reason ? that they might give them power ? no ; that was never done under the law ; nor then imagined , when s. cyprian wrote ; but he gives the account of it himself ; that by their presence , either their faults might be published , or their good acts commended ; that so it may appear to be a just and lawfull ordination , which hath been examined by the suffrage and judgment of all . the people here had a share in the election , but it was in matter of testimony concerning the good or ill behaviour of the person . and therefore , he saith , it was almost a general custom among them , and he thinks came down from divine tradition and apostolical practice , that when any people wanted a bishop , the neighbour bishops met together in that place , and the new bishop was chosen , plebe praesente , the people being present , ( not by the votes of the people ) quae singulorum vitam plenissimè novit , which best understands every mans conversation : and this , he saith , was observed in the consecration of their fellow-bishop sabinus , who was put into the place of basilides . where he doth express the consent of the people , but he requires the iudgment of the bishops ; which being thus performed , he incourages the people to withdraw from basilides and to adhere to sabinus . for , basilides having fallen foully into idolatry , and joyned blasphemy with it , had of his own accord laid down his bishoprick , and desired onely to be received to lay-communion , upon this sabinus was consecrated bishop in his room ; after which basilides goes to rome and there engages the bishop to interpose in his behalf , that he might be restored ; sabinus finding this , makes his application to saint cyprian and the african bishops , who write this epistle to the people to withdraw from basilides , saying that it belonged chiefly to them to choose the good and to refuse the bad . which is the strongest testimony in antiquity for the peoples power ; and yet here we are to consider ( . ) it was in a case where a bishop had voluntarily resigned . ( . ) another bishop was put into his room , not by the power of the people , but by the judgment and ordination of the neighbour bishops . ( . ) they had the judgment of a whole council of african bishops for their deserting him . ( . ) for a notorious matter of fact , viz. idolatry and blasphemy by his own confession . ( . ) all the proof which saint cyprian brings for this , doth amount to no more , than that the people were most concerned to give testimony , as to the good or bad lives of their bishops . this further appears by the words in lampridius concerning alexander severus , who proposed the names of his civil officers to the people , to hear what they had to object against them , and said it was a hard case , when the christians and iews did so about their priests , the same should not be done about governours of provinces , who had mens lives and fortunes in their hands . but no man could ever from hence imagin , that the people had the power to make or unmake the governours of roman provinces . origen saith , the peoples presence was necessary at the consecration of a bishop , that they might all know the worth of him who was made their bishop ; it must be astante populo , the people standing by ; and this is that saint paul meant , when he said , a bishop ought to have a good testimony from those that are without . ( . ) that the people upon this assuming the power of elections caused great disturbances and disorders in the church . eusebius represents the disorders of antioch to have been so great in the city upon the choice of a new bishop , by the divisions of the people , that they were like to have shaken the emperour's kindness to the christians . for , such a flame was kindled by it , that he saith , it was near destroying both the church and the city : and they had certainly drawn swords , if the providence of god , and fear of the emperour had not restrained them . who was forced to send officers and messages to keep them quiet : and after much trouble to the emperour and many meetings of bishops , at last eustathius was chosen . greg. nazianzen sets forth the mighty unruliness of the people of caesarea in the choice of their bishop , saying it came to a dangerous sedition , and not easy to be suppressed : and he saith , the city was very prone to it , on such occasions . and although there was one person of incomparable worth above the rest , yet through the parties and factions that were made , it was a hard matter to carry it for him . he complains so much of the inconveniencies of popular elections , that he wishes them alter'd ; and the elections brought to the clergy ; and he thinks no common-wealth so disorderly as this method of election was . evagrius saith , the sedition at alexandria was intolerable , upon the division of the people between dioscorus and proterius ; the people rising against the magistrates and souldiers who endeavoured to keep them in order : and at last they murthered proterius . such dangerous seditions are described at constantinople , upon the election of paulus and macedonius , by sozomen ; and in the same place after the death of eudoxius , and after the death of atticus by socrates ; and after the deprivation of nestorius . and again at antioch upon the removal of eudoxius ; and about the election of flavianus ; at ephesus by saint chrysostom , at verselles by saint ambrose ; at milan by socrates , and many other places . i shall onely adde a remarkable one at rome on the choice of damasus : which came to bloodshed for several days ; and is particularly related by ammianus marcellinus ; and the preface to faustinus his libellus precum . mr. baxter grants there are inconveniencies in the peoples consenting power , and so there are in all humane affairs . but are these tolerable inconveniencies ? is this power still to be pleaded for , in opposition to laws , as though religion lay at stake ; and onely magistrates were bad men , and the people always good and wise and vertuous ? a man must have great spite against men in power , and unreasonable fondness of the common people that can represent great men as wicked , debauched , and enemies to piety , and at the same time dissemble , and take no notice of the vices of the common people ; besides their ignorance and incapacity of judging in such matters , and their great proneness to fall into sidings and parties and unreasonable contentions on such occasions . but saint chrysostom complains much of the unfitness of the people to judge in such cases . saint hierom saith , they are apt to choose men like themselves : and saith elsewhere , they are much to be feared whom the people choose . origen saith , the people are often moved either for favour or reward . ( . ) that to prevent these inconveniencies many bishops were appointed without the choice of the people , and canons were made for the regulation of elections . in the church of alexandria the election of the bishop belonged to the presbyters ; as saint ierom and others shew . for by the constitution of that church , before the alteration made by alexander , the bishop of alexandria was not onely to be chosen out of the presbyters , but by them . so severus in the life of the alexandrian patriarchs , saith , that after the death of their patriarch , the presbyters met together and prayed , and proceeded to election ; and the first presbyter declared it belonged to them to choose their bishop , and to the other bishops to consecrate him . to which the bishops assented , onely saying , if he were worthy they would consecrate whom they chose , but not otherwise . elmacinus makes this a constitution of saint mark in the first foundation of that church ; and saith it continued to the time of the nicene council : and then as hilarius the deacon saith , the custom was alter'd , by a council among themselves , which determin'd that they might choose the most deserving person , whether of that body or not . and there could be no room for popular elections , whereever that custom obtained , which the counterfeit ambrose speaks of , ut recedente uno sequens ei succederet ; speaking of the bishop dying and the next in course succeeding . but if this be onely a particular conceit of that authour , yet we find the bishops consecrating others in several churches without any mention of choice made by the people . so , when narcissus retired from ierusalem , eusebius saith , the neighbour bishops assembled , and consecrated one dius in his room ; and after him followed germanio and then gordius , in whose time narcissus returned : but being grown very old , alexander was brought in to assist him , by revelation , and a voice from heaven to some of the brethren . severus bishop of milevis in his life-time appointed his successour , and acquainted the clergy with it , but not the people ; great disturbance was feared hereupon ; the clergy sent to saint augustin to come among them , and to settle their new bishop ; who went , and the people received the bishop so appointed very quietly . s. augustin himself declares , the sad effects he had often seen of the churches election of bishops , through the ambition of some , and the contention of others , and therefore he desired to prevent any such disturbance in his city , when he was dead . and for that reason , he acquainted the people that he designed eradius , or as some copies have it , eraclius for his successour . so paulus the novation bishop at constantinople , appointed his successour marcianus to prevent the contentions that might happen after his death ; and got his presbyters to consent to it . the greek canonists are of opinion , that the council of nice took away all power of election of bishops from the people , and gave it to the bishops of the province . and it is apparent from the council of antioch , that bishops were sometimes consecrated in the east , without the consent of the people ; for it doth suppose a bishop after consecration may not be received by his people , which were a vain supposition if their election necessarily went before it . and withall , it puts the case of a bishop that refused to go to his people after consecration ; which shews , that the consecration was not then performed in his own church . gregory subscribed at antioch as bishop of alexandria , before ever he went thither . so saint basil mentions his consecration of euphronius to be bishop of nicopolis , without any consent of the people before ; it being then performed by the metropolitan in his own see ; but he perswades the senate and people to accept of him . if the people did agree upon a person to be bishop , their way then was , to petition the metropolitan and his synod , who had the full power either to allow or to refuse him . and it is evident from the twelfth canon of the council of laodicea , that although all the people chose a bishop , if he intruded himself into the possession of his see without the consent of a provincial synod , he was to be turned out or rejected by them . which shews how much the business of elections was brought into the bishops power in the eastern parts . and by virtue of this canon , bassianus and stephanus were rejected in the council of chalcedon . by the law of iustinian , the common people were excluded from elections of bishops ; and the clergy and better sort of citizens were to nominate three to the metropolitan ; out of which he was to choose one . by the canon of laodicea ▪ the common people were excluded from the power of choosing any into the clergy : for they were wont to raise tumults upon such occasions ; such as saint augustin describes in the case of pinianus ; but some of the greek and latin canonists inlarge the sense of the laodicean canon to the election of bishops too . the second council of nice restrained the election onely to bishop ; which was confirmed by following councils in the greek church ; as can. . concil . constantinopol . against photius ; and the people are there excluded with an anathema . so far were popular elections grown out of request in the eastern church . ( . ) that when there were christian magistrates , they did interpose in this matter as they judged expedient . so constantine did in the church of antioch , when there was great dissension there , upon the deposition of eustathius , he recommended to the synod euphronius of cappadocia , and georgius of arethusa , or whom they should judge fit , without taking any notice of the interest of the people : and they accordingly consecrated euphronius . after the death of alexander bishop of constantinople , the people fell into parties , some were for paulus , and others for macedonius ; the emperour constantius coming thither puts them both by , and appoints eusebius of nicomedia to be bishop there . eusebius being dead , the orthodox party again choose paulus , constantius sends hermogenes to drive him out by force : and was very angry with macedonius for being made bishop without his leave ; although afterwards he placed him in his throne . when athanasius was restored , constantius declared , it was by the decree of the synod , and by his consent . and he by his authority restored likewise paulus and marcellus , asclepas and lucius to their several sees . when gregory nazianzen resigned the bishoprick of constantinople , theodosius commended to the bishops the care of finding out a person , who recommending many to him , the emperour himself pitched upon nectarius , and would have him made bishop , though many of the bishops opposed it . when chrysostom was chosen at constantinople , the royal assent was given by arcadius , the election being made , saith sozomen , by the people and clergy ; but palladius gives a more particular account of it , viz. that upon the death of nectarius many competitours appeared , some making their application to the court , and othes to the people ; in so much that the people began to be tumultuous , ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith palladius ) upon which they importuned the emperour to provide a fit man for them . eutropius being then chief minister of state , recommended chrysostom to the emperour , and immediately an express was sent to the comes orientis , that he should with all privacy , for fear of a tumult at antioch , send him away to constantinople : whither being brought , he was soon after consecrated bishop . so that here was no antecedent election of the people , as sozomen saith , but whatever there was , was subsequent to the emperour's determination . after the death of sisinnius , the emperour declared , that to prevent disturbance they would have none of the clergy of constantinople chosen bishop there ; and so nestorius was brought from antioch . maximianus being dead he gave order that proclus should be made bishop , before the others body was buried . these instances are sufficient to shew , that christian princes did from the first think fit , when just occasion was given , to make use of their authority in this matter . ( . ) upon the alteration of the government of christendom there was greater reason for the magistrates interposing than before . for upon the endowment of churches by the great liberality of the northern princes , it was thought at first very reasonable , that the royal assent should be obtained , though a bishop was chosen by the clergy and people : which at first depended onely on tacit consent ; but after the solemn assemblies of the people came to be much used , these privileges of princes came not onely to be confirmed by the consent of the people , but to be inlarged . for , the princes obtained by degrees not onely the confirmation of the elected , but the liberty of nomination ; with a shadow of election by the clergy and others of the court ; as appears by the formulae of marculphus . this way was not always observed in france where frequently according to the edict of clotharius , the clergy and people chose , the metropolitan consecrated , and the prince gave his royal assent : but in doubtfull or difficult cases , he made use of his prerogative , and nominated the person , and appointed the consecration . afterwards , there arose great contests between the papal and royal power ; which continued for several ages ; and at last among us , the royal power overthrowing the other , reserved the power of nomination of bishops , as part of the prerogative ; which being allowed in frequent parlaments , the consent of the people is swallowed up therein : since their acts do oblige the whole nation . for not onely the statute of edw. . declares , the right of appointing bishops to be in the king ; but edw. . it is likewise declared , that the right of disposing bishopricks was in the king by right of patronage , derived from his ancestours before the freedom of elections was granted . which shews not onely the great antiquity of this right , but the consent of the whole nation to it . and the same is fully related in the epistle of edw. . to clement . where it is said , that the king did dispose of them , jure suo regio , by his royal prerogative ; as his ancestours had done from the first founding of a christian church here . this is likewise owned in the famous statute of carlisle edw. . so that there is no kingdom where this right hath been more fully acknowledged by the general consent of the people , than here in england ; and that from the original planting of a christian church here . as to the inferiour right of patronage ; it is justly thought to bear equal date with the first settlements of christianity in peace and quietness . for when it began to spread into remoter villages and places distant from the cathedral churches , where the bishop resided with his presbyters , as in a college together ; a necessity was soon apprehended of having presbyters fixed among them . for the council of neocaesarea mentions the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the country presbyters , c. . whom the greek canonists interpret to be such as then were fixed in country-cures , and this council was held ten years before the council of nice . in the time of the first council of orange , a. d. . express mention is made of the right of patronage reserved to the first founders of churches , c. . viz. if a bishop built a church on his own land in another bishop's diocese , yet the right of presenting the clerk was reserved to him . and this was confirmed by the second council of arles , c. . a. d. . by the constitution of the emperour zeno. a. d. . the rights of patronage are established , upon the agreements at first made in the endowments of churches . this constitution was confirmed by iustinian , a. d. . and he allows the nomination and presentation of a fit clerk : and the same were settled in the western church ; as appears by the ninth council of toledo , about a. d. . and many canons were made in several councils about regulating the rights of patronage , and the endowments of churches , till at last it obtained by general consent that the patron might transmit the right of presentation to his heirs , and the bishops were to approve of the persons presented , and to give institution to the benefice . the barons of england in the epistle to gregory ix . plead , that their ancestours had the right of patronage , from the first planting of christianity here . for those upon whose lands the churches were built , and at whose cost and charges they were erected , and by whom the parochial churches were endowed , thought they had great reason to reserve the nomination of the clerks to themselves . and this ioh. sarisburiensis saith , was received by a general custom of this whole kingdom . so that the right of patronage was at first built upon a very reasonable consideration ; and hath been ever since received by as universal a consent as any law or custom among us . and the onely questions now remaining are , whether such a consent can be made void by the dissent of some few persons , who plead it to be their inherent right to choose their own pastours ? and supposing , that it might be done , whether it be reasonable so to doe ? and i conclude , that , . things being thus settled by general consent and established laws there is no ground for the people to resume the liberty of elections : ( . ) because it was no unalterable right , but might be passed away ; and hath been by consent of the people upon good considerations , and ( . ) because no such inconveniencies can be alleged against the settled way of disposal of livings , but may be remedied by laws ; far easier , than those which will follow upon the peoples taking this power to themselves , which cannot be done in a divided nation , without throwing all into remediless confusion . ( . ) because other reformed churches have thought this an unreasonable pretence . beza declaims against it , as a thing without any ground in scripture , or any right in antiquity , and subject to infinite disorders . in sweden the archbishop and bishops are appointed by the king : and so are the bishops in denmark ; in other lutheran churches , the superintendents are appointed by the several princes and magistrates : and in these the patrons present before ordination . the synod of dort hath a salvo for the right of patronage , can. eccles. . in france the ministers are chosen by ministers ; at geneva by the council of state , which hath power to depose them . and it would be very strange , if this inherent and unalterable right of the people should onely be discovered here ; where it is as unfit to be practised , as in any part of the christian world . but mr. b. is unsatisfied with any laws that are made in this matter ; for when the objection is put by him , that the people chose the parlament who make the laws which give the patrons power , and therefore they now consent ; he saith , this seemeth a iest ; for , he saith , . it cannot be proved that all the churches or people gave the patrons that power . . they never consented that parlaments should do what they list , and dispose of their souls , or what is necessary to the saving of their souls . . they may as well say , that they consent to be baptized and to receive the sacraments because the parlament consented to it . . their forefathers had no power to represent them by such consenting . . the obligation on the people was personal , and they have not god's consent for the transmutation . so that one would think by mr. b.'s doctrine , all laws about patronage are void in themselves ; and all rights of advowson in the king , or noblemen and gentlemen , or vniversities are meer vsurpations , and things utterly unlawfull among christians , since he makes such a personal obligation to choose their own pastours to lie on the people , that they cannot transfer it by their own act. but upon second thoughts i suppose he will not deny , that the freedom of publick churches and the endowments of them , do lie within the magistrates power , and so binding laws may be made about them ; unless he can prove that the magistrates power doth not extend to those things which the magistrate gives . and if these may be justly settled by laws , then the rights of patronage are as just and legal rights as men have to their estates ; and consequently every minister duly presented hath a legal title to the temple and tithes , as mr. b. calls them . but this doth not , saith he , make a minister for their souls , and the parlament cannot dispose of their souls . the meaning of all which is , if the people be humorsome and factious , they may run after whom they please , and set up what minister they please , in opposition to laws . and so for instance , suppose a parish be divided in their opinions about religion , ( as we know too many are at this day ) all these several parties , viz. anabaptists , quakers , yea and papists too , as well as others , will put in for an equal share in what concerns the care of their souls , and consequently , may choose a several pastour to themselves , and leave the incumbent the bare possession of the temple and tithes . but if there be no other objection , this may be thought sufficient , that he was none of their choosing , being imposed upon them by others , who could not dispose of their souls . by which means , this pretence of taking care for their souls , will be made use of , to justifie the greatest disorder and confusion , which can happen in a church . for , let the person be never so worthy in himself , the people are still to have their liberty of choosing for themselves . and who are these people ? must all have equal votes ? then according to mr. b.'s opinion of our churches , the worst will be soonest chosen ; for why should we not think the worst people will choose their like as well as the worst patrons , and the worst bishops ? but if the profane must be excluded , by what law ? is it because they have no right to the ordinances ? but have they no right to their own souls and to the care of them ? therefore they are equally concerned with others . yet let us suppose all these excluded , as no competent iudges ; shall all the rest be excluded too , who are incompetent iudges ? then i am afraid , there will not be many left . and whatever they pretend , the people wher● they do choose , do trust other mens judgments , as well as where the patrons present ; and to prevent popular tumults , such elections are generally brought by a kind of devolution to a few persons who are entrusted to choose for the rest . but if all the people were left to choose their own pastours , it is not to be imagined , what parties and factions , what mutual hatreds , and perpetual animosities , they would naturally fall into on such occasions . do we not daily see such things to be the fruits of popular elections , where men are concerned for the strength and reputation of their party ? what envying and strife , what evil speaking and backbiting , what tumults and disorders , what unchristian behaviour in general , of men to each other , do commonly accompany such elections ? which being the natural effects of mens passions stirred up by such occasions , and there being so much experience of it in all ages of the christian church , where such things have been ; i am as certain , that christ never gave the people such an unalterable right of choosing their own ministers , as i am , that he designed to have the peace and unity of the church preserved . and of all persons , i do the most wonder at him , who pretends to discover the onely way of unity and concord among christians , that he should so much , so frequently , so earnestly insist upon this ; which if it be not the onely , is one of the most effectual ways to perpetuate disorder and confusion in a broken and divided church . and so much for the plea for separation , taken from the peoples rights to choose their own ministers . sect. . having thus dispatched all the pleas for separation , which relate to the constitution of our church , i come to those which concern the terms of communion with us ; wh●● are said to be unlawfull . one of the chief pleas alledged for separation , by dr. o. and mr. a. is , that many things in the constant total communion of parochial churches are imposed on the consciences and practices of men , which are not according to the mind of christ. these are very general words ; but dr. o. reckons up the particulars , which ( setting aside those already considered ) are , the use of the aëreal sign of the cross , kneeling at the communion , the religious observation of holy-days ; and the constant use of the liturgy in all the publick offices of the church . as to this last , i shall say nothing , it being lately so very well defended by a learned divine of our church . to the other , mr. b. adds , the use of godfathers and godmothers ; and now i am to examine what weight there is in these things , to make men seriously think communion with our church unlawfull . when i found our church thus charged with prescribing unlawfull terms of communion , i expected a particular and distinct proof of such a charge , because the main weight of the cause depended upon it . and this is the method we use in dealing with the church of rome . we do not run upon general charges of unscriptural impositions , and things imposed on mens consciences against the mind of christ ; but we close with them upon the particulars of the charge , as worship of images , invocation of saints , adoration of the host , and we offer to prove by plain scripture , that these are forbidden and therefore unlawfull . but i find no such method taken or pursued by our brethren ; onely we are told over and over , that they judge , they think , they esteem them unlawfull ; and they cannot be satisfied about them ; but for particular arguments to prove them unlawfull i find none ; which makes the whole charge look very suspiciously . for men do not use to remain in generals , when they have any assurance of the goodness of their cause . yet , to let the reader see that i decline nothing that looks like argument in this matter , i shall pick up every thing i can find , which seems to prove these terms of our communion to be unlawfull , or to justify their separation . in the epistle before my sermon i had used this argument against the present separation , that if it be lawfull to separate on a pretence of greater purity , where there is an agreement in doctrine and the substantial parts of worship , as is acknowledged in our case ; then a bare difference of opinion , as to some circumstantials of worship and the best constitution of churches will be sufficient ground to break communion and to set up new churches ; which , considering the great variety of mens fancies about these matters , is to make an infinite divisibility in churches , without any possible stop to further separation . this argument others were willing to pass over , but mr. a. in his preface , undertakes to answer it in all the parts of it ; which being so material to our business , i shall now distinctly consider : and like an able disputant he allows nothing at all in this argument ; for he denies the supposition , viz. that there is any such agreement in doctrine and the substantial parts of worship ; he denies the first consequence ; and as though that were not sufficient , he denies the remoter consequence too . and what argument can stand before a man of such prowesse in disputing ? . he denies an agreement in doctrine , which i have already shewed was allowed by all dissenters before him , from the days of r. brown to mr. a. but we must not mistake him , for as fierce as he seems to be at first , yet let him but have scope to shew some tricks of wit , and trials of his skill in fencing ; and he is as tame and yielding as you would wish him ; for at last he confesses they generally agree with the doctrine contained in the articles ; and but for meer shame , he would have said all ; for i never heard of one before him made any scruple of it . and this is the doctrine established in this church ; and if there be an agreement in this , then this supposition is granted . . as to substantial parts of worship ; he denies an agreement in this too : although dr. o. saith , we are agreed in the substantial parts of religion ; and i hope the parts of worship are allowed to be some of them . but he pretends not to know what we mean by the difference between the parts of worship , making some substantial , and others circumstantial ; and then he offers to prove that our church appoints new substantial parts of worship , and therefore he must know one from the other ; and after he hath spent some leaves in the proof of that , at last he fairly concludes , that there is a difference at least in a circumstantial part of worship . but because this is a weighty charge against our church , i shall take the more pains to consider it , because the main objection against our ceremonies lies under it , and that which most sticks with the more sober nonconformists . mr. a. 's charge about a substantial part of worship being appointed by our church , is thus drawn up . an outward visible sign of an inward invisible grace , whereby a person is dedicated to the profession of , and subjection to the redeemer , is a substantial part of worship . now this he chargeth our church with , but gives no instance ; but the sign of the cross after baptism , is that which he means : which mr. b. calls the transient dedicating image of the cross. for the clearing of this , it will be necessary to shew , . what we mean by a substantial part of worship . . how it appears that the sign of the cross is made no substantial part of worship by our church . . what we mean●●y a substantial part of divine worship . for i have observed , that the want of a clear and distinct notion of this , hath been one of the greatest occasions of the scruples of the most conscientious non-conformists . for being afraid of displeasing god , by using any other parts of worship , than himself hath appointed ; and looking on our ceremonies , as real parts of divine worship , upon this reason they have thought themselves obliged in conscience , at least to forbear the use of them . the great principle they went upon was this , that whatever was any ways intended or designed for the worship of god , was a real and substantial part of his worship ; and when their adversaries told them that divine institution was necessary to make a part of worship ; their answer was , that divine institution did not make that a part of worship which was none , but that to be a part of true worship , which otherwise would be a part of false worship . in the mean time , they did not deny the lawfulness of the application of common circumstances to acts of religious worship , as time and place , &c. but the annexing any other rites , or ceremonies to proper acts of religious worship ( as the sign of the cross to baptism ) they supposed to be the making new substantial parts of divine worship ; and therefore forbidden by all those places of scripture , which imply the scripture it self to be a perfect rule of worship . this as far as i can gather is the strongest plea of the non-conformists side , which i have represented with its full advantage , because my design is , if possible , not so much to confute , as to convince our dissenting brethren . let us then seriously consider this matter , and if we can find out a plain discernible difference between substantial parts of divine worship and mere accidental appendices , this discovery may tend more to disentangle scrupulous minds , than the multiplying of arguments to prove the lawfulness of our ceremonies . and that we may better understand where the difficulty lies , these following things are agreed on both sides . . that besides proper acts of worship there are some circumstances which may be differently used , without setting up new parts of worship . as for instance , adoration is a substantial and proper act of divine worship ; but whether that adoration be performed by prostration , or by bowing , or by kneeling , is in it self indifferent ; and no man will say , that he that makes his adoration kneeling makes another new part of worship , from what he doth who performs it standing or falling on his face . and so , if the ancient eastern church did at certain times forbid kneeling in acts of adoration ; this doth not prove that they differ'd in point of adoration from the western church which requires kneeling in the same offices of divine worship ; because they agreed in the act of adoration , but onely differ'd in the manner of expressing it . . that divine institution makes those to be necessary parts of worship which of themselves are not so . as is plain in the sacraments of the new testament ; which of themselves are no necessary substantial parts of the worship of god ; but onely become so , by being appointed by christ. so under the law , many things meerly ritual and ceremonial in themselves , yet by vertue of divine appointment became substantial parts of divine worship . . that for men to make new parts of divine worship is unlawfull . for that is to suppose the scripture an imperfect rule of worship ; and that superstition is no fault ; and consequently that our saviour , without cause , found fault with the scribes and pharisees for their traditions . . that there are many things which may be done in the worship of god ; which are not forbidden to be done unless they be parts of divine worship . for , if the supposed reason of their prohibition , be their being made parts of divine worship , if it be made appear , that they are not so , then it follows they are not forbidden . . that what is neither forbidden directly , nor by consequence is lawfull and may be practised in the worship of god. for although mr. a. quarrels with me , for saying , they require express commands to make things lawfull in the worship of god ; yet he allows , that what is not required either directly or by consequence is unlawfull ; and by parity of reason , what is not forbidden in the same manner must be lawfull . sect. . it remains now to find out those certain notes and marks of distinction in this matter , as may give satisfaction to the consciences of men , in the difference between innocent ceremonies , and superstitious parts of divine worship . for the difference here doth not lie in supposing some things of divine institution which are not , but in making those to be parts of divine worship which are not . and that may be done these ways . . by supposing them to be so necessary , that the doing them would be a thing pleasing to god , and the omitting of them would be a thing displeasing to god , although there were no humane law which required the doing of them . for , where there is no obligation by vertue of any humane law and yet men suppose they should please god by doing , or displease god by not observing some particular ceremonies ; it is a sign they esteem those to be parts of divine worship . and this was the case of the scribes and pharisees whom our saviour reproved , not so much for their frequent washings , as for supposing that a mans conscience was defiled , if he did not observe them . for they had taken up an opinion among them , ( as h. grotius observes ) that any thing that was touched by a person unclean by the law , did communicate an uncleanness first to their bodies , and then to their souls ; but that this ceremonial washing did purifie both body and soul : upon which supposition , they concluded this washing so necessary a part of god's worship , that the doing of it was a thing very pleasing to god , and the omission of it must be displeasing to him , because it left an inward defilement upon their consciences , which might have been removed by the use of it . but it is lately pleaded by mr. a. that this washing of hands among the iews condemned by our saviour , was just of the nature of our ceremonies , being onely observed as a command of their superiours not repugnant to the law of god , but rather more agreeable to it than our ceremonies are : from whence he infers , that all traditions , canons , injunctions , concerning unnecessary things are contrary to the law of god , and consequently invalid and not obligatory . but i say , the reason of our saviour's opposing the pharisees about this matter , was not because a thing in it self unnecessary , was determined by their superiours , but because of the superstitious opinion which the pharisees had concerning this washing with respect to the consciences of men . and that i shall prove . from the force of our saviour's reasoning . . from the general sense of the iews concerning it . . from the force of our saviour's reasoning : which will appear , by observing what he proves , viz. that they set up their tradition above the law. v. . why do you also transgress the commandment of god by your tradition ? and v. . thus ye have made the commandment of god of none effect by your tradition . v. . full well ye reject the commandment of god , that ye may keep your own tradition . our saviour here proves by a plain and undeniable instance about the vow corban , that they did believe their traditions to have a force superiour to the law ; else it were impossible they should suppose such an arbitrary vow should supersede the obligation of the law , as to the duty which children owe to their parents ; but from hence it appeared that they believed the keeping of this vow to be a thing more pleasing to god , than relieving their parents , and so they esteemed it a more necessary and substantial part of divine worship . the force of his argument then extends to all things which they looked on as things pleasing to god , on the account of the tradition of their elders ; for he argued against the main supposition , the truth of which he proves by a clear instance , where the tradition did contradict the law. and since by this , it appeared , that they thought their tradition to over-rule the law , it was no wonder they set up others equal to it ; and thought mens consciences strictly obliged to observe them . but how doth the argument reach to the present case , viz. because that when their traditions contradicted the law , they were not to be observed ; therefore , not , when agreeable ; unless he rejected all kind of traditions ? i answer , the pharisees did think a man's conscience defiled if he did not observe that tradition , as appears by what follows , when he taught the people upon this occasion , v. . that which entreth into the mouth defileth not a man ; but that which cometh out of the mouth defileth a man. this was the doctrine christ taught the people with respect to this dispute with the pharisees : which signified nothing , unless the opinion among them was , that eating of bread with unwashen hands , did really defile a man's conscience towards god. at which the pharisees were much offended , as the disciples told him , v. . and they were not so very well satisfied , but they desire a further explication of this matter from himself ; which he gives them , v. , , . where he shews that no defilement could come to mens consciences meerly by what they did eat ; but that mens inward lusts were the things which defiled them , for these were the source of those wicked actions , which were most displeasing to god. and so he concludes his discourse , v. . these are the things which defile a man , but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man. from whence it follows , that the main thing in dispute was , whether this ceremony of washing hands could be omitted , without defiling the conscience ? or else our saviour's conclusion doth not reach the question . but if the conclusion was contrary to the pharisees doctrine , then they must look upon this ceremony of washing of hands , as a part of worship equal to the law of god , and which men pleased god by doing , and displeased him by omitting it ; not meerly with respect to the command of superiours , but as they supposed some lesser guilt upon the conscience might be expiated by it , which would remain , if they did not use it . . from the general sense of the iews . even mr. a. himself , in the very same discourse , where he would make this washing of hands like our ceremonies , quotes several passages of the talmudists , to prove that they equalled their traditions with the laws of god ; and sometimes set them above them ; and particularly of this tradition he saith , it is a saying of the talmud , that he that eats bread with unwashen hands , sins as grievously as if he lay with a whore. which is a saying of r. ase in sota ; and abundantly proves , that this was not looked on as an indifferent ceremony , but as a thing , whose omission brought a guilt on the conscience . and i wonder mr. a. did not discern , that by this one saying , he overthrew all the rest of his discourse : but this opinion is not built on the saying of any rabbi , but on a constant tradition among them , which they derive from the days of solomon ; who , they say , appointed it first , when they did eat of sacrifices ; afterwards , the wise men applied it to the terumah , and at last hillel and schammai decreed it ought to be observed for their greater purification , before the eating their common meals . and the pharisees placing the greatest part of their religion in the nice observance of such traditions , thought themselves so much more holy than others , as they did more carefully avoid the defilements of common conversation ; and for that reason they observed this washing especially when they had been in promiscuous company . for they thought themselves defiled by any touch from the ordinary sort of people ; and this , maimonides saith , they looked on , as a peculiar part of sanctity ; and the more strict and punctual they were in this , the more holy they were accounted . therefore in the talmud one iohn the son of gudged is particularly admired for his sanctity , because he exceeded others in the niceness of washing his hands . and they have a saying in the misna to this purpose , the garments of the common people , are a pollution to the pharisees , the garments of the pharisees to those that eat the terumah , and theirs to those that eat of the sacrifices , and theirs to those that touched the water of cleansing . so that they had different degrees of sanctity about this matter of washing , none of which was imposed for the sake of cleanliness , but from the supposition of some inward purification they obtained by it , from the common filthiness of the world . and upon this principle , even the vessels of the temple were to be washed all over , if they were but touched by the common people . in the washing their hands , they put a difference between that before , and that after meat ; the latter they accounted a matter of liberty , or at least onely for health to wash off the dangerous saline particles which they supposed to remain ; but the former was required for inward purification ; which they require so strictly , that if water may be had within four miles , a iew is bound not to eat till he hath washed , no not with a fork ; and in case none can be had , then he is to cover his hands and so eat ; nor can he take meat from another in his mouth , untill his mouth be first washed . if there be no more water than will serve for his drink , he must part with enough of it to wash his hands ; and therefore r. akiba in prison said , he would rather perish with thirst than want water to wash his hands . and they say , whosoever disesteems this custom , deserves not onely excommunication but death too . since all this is evident from the most authentick writers among the iews , i cannot but admire at mr. a.'s design , who would make the world believe , that this was no more than an indifferent ceremony among the iews , that was onely required for order and decency , as our ceremonies are , when those very citations he brings from buxtorf and dr. lightfoot do manifestly prove the contrary . this i thought necessary to be cleared , because this is the chief place in the new testament which they bring to prove the unlawfulness of our ceremonies . from hence it now appears that the reason of christ's condemning that ceremony of washing of hands , was not upon the account of decency , but a superstitious opinion they had concerning it , that it did expiate a lesser kind of guilt and spiritual filthiness which they contracted by the impure touches of men less holy than themselves . and this the pharisees more wondred at in christ's disciples , because it was a rule among them , that the disciples of the wise ought to be more strict in these cases than others , because these things tended to advance the reputation of their holiness , among the people . and where such an opinion prevails , there such ceremonies are made parts of divine worship . sect. . and thus it is in many of the ceremonies of the roman church , which their divines assert to have a purifying and cleansing faculty as to the souls of men ; not for justification of men from mortal sins , but for other spiritual effects , and taking away the guilt of venial sins . for say they , no doubt they are effectual for the ends to which the church appointed them , and of this , there is no dispute among catholicks . and withall , they add , that it is probable that the church hath power to appoint ceremonies in such a manner , that they may produce these effects , ex opere operato , as the sacraments do justification , because christ hath left it in the power of the church to apply his merits for lesser effects , having appointed the sacraments himself for the greater . but bellarmin thinks this latter part disputable concerning the opus operatum of ceremonies ; but as to the former , viz. by way of impetration , he saith , it is past all doubt among catholicks . so , as to the sprinkling of holy water , bellarmin saith , it is no meer significant ceremony ; but it is effectual for the blotting out of venial sins ; and he quotes saint thomas , and dom. à soto , and gratian for it ; who produceth the canon of alex. . whereby it appears it was first instituted ut eâ cuncti aspersi sanctificentur & purificentur ; that all that were sprinkled might be sanctified and purified by it . in the prayer of consecration for the salt to make holy water , one expression is , that it might be wholsome both to body and soul ; and the water is consecrated to drive away the power of the devil . azorius saith , that holy water cleanseth venial sins , ex opere operato , and drives away devils . greg. de valentia agrees in the thing , but is not so peremptory in the manner . but marsilius columna hath written a whole book of the admirable effects of this ceremony . and so for the sign of the cross , bellarmin attributes wonderfull effects to it , for driving away devils and diseases , and sanctifying the things it is applied to : and he saith , it hath power against the devil ex opere operato . pet. thyraeus the iesuit , attributes a proper efficiency to the sign of the cross against the power of the devil . coccius saith it is a terrour to the devils , and very beneficial to mankind . which makes me wonder at dr. ames his disingenuity , when he would go about to make the doctrine of our church about ceremonies not to differ from that of the church of rome . it is true , cassander and some few others , talk at another rate ; and cassander himself saith , the best men on both sides were agreed about these matters . but we are not to take their general sense from such as cassander ; especially when their publick offices speak the sense of their church better than cassander . greg. de valentiâ indeed , saith , it is a lie that they attribute as much to ceremonies as to sacraments : and in truth they do it not ; for they attribute iustification to the sacraments , and the expiation of the remainder of venial sins to the use of ceremonies . however , since they attribute so spiritual effects to them ; it is an argument they look upon them as real parts of divine worship , as much as they do on prayer , with which they compare them in point of efficacy . but with what face can this be objected against our church ; which utterly rejects any such spiritual efficacy , as to the ceremonies that are retained among us ; and declares that they are no otherwise received in our church , than as they are purged from popish superstition and errour . and therefore all opinion of merit and spiritual efficacy is taken from them ; which do make them to be parts of divine worship ; which being removed , they remain onely naked ceremonies , i. e. as cassander well expresses it , words made visible , or teaching actions ; whose design and intention being towards us , and not towards god , they cannot be thought to be made parts of divine worship , although they be used in the performance of them . as if the christians in the east did wear the b●dge of a cross upon their arms , at some solemn days , as on good friday at their devotions , to distinguish them from turks and iews ; would any one say , that they made this badge a part of divine worship ? but when they see the papists on that day using the most solemn postures of adoration to the crucifix , they might well charge them with making this a part of divine worship . so that the distinction between these two , is not so hard to find , if men apply their minds to the consideration of it . . men may make ceremonies to become parts of divine worship if they suppose them unalterable , and obligatory to the consciences of all christians : for this supposes an equal necessity with that of divine institution . if men do assert so great a power in the church , as to appoint things for spiritual effects , and to oblige the consciences of all christians to observe them ; it is all one as to say , the church may make new parts of worship . but this can with no colour be objected against a church which declares as expresly as it is possible , that it looks on the rites and ceremonies used therein , as things in their own nature indifferent and alterable ; and that changes and alterations may be made , as seems necessary or expedient to those in authority ; and that every country is at liberty to use their own ceremonies ; and that they neither condemn others nor prescribe to them what can more express the not making ceremo●● any parts of divine worship than these things d● and thus i have at once shewed , what we mean by substantial parts of divine worship , and that our church doth not make any human ceremonies to be so . sect. . i now come particularly to examin the charge against our church . for mr. a. saith , an outward visible sign of an inward invisible grace , whereby a person is dedicated to the profession of and subjection to the redeemer , is a substantial part of worship . i answer , . an outward visible sign between men representing the duty or engagement of another , is no part of divine worship at all , much less a substantial part of it . there are some visible signs from god to men , representing the effects of his grace to us ; and those we call sacraments ; there are other signs from men to god , to testifie their subjection and dependence , and these are acts of worship ; and there are signs from men to men to represent some other thing besides the bare action ; and these are significant ceremonies , such as the cross in baptism is . for , after the child is baptized and received into the church , the sign of the cross is used in token that hereafter he shall not be ashamed to confess the faith of christ crucified , &c. to whom is this token made ? is it to god ? no certainly . if it were a permanent sign of the cross , would it be for a testimony to god , or to men ? when the primitive christians used the sign of the cross in token they were not ashamed of christ crucified , was this a dedicating sign to god , or a declarative sign to men ? and what if it represents subjection to christ as the redeemer ? must it therefore be such an outward visible sign of inward invisible grace , as the sacraments are ? it represents the duty and not the grace ; the duty is ours and may be represented by us ; but the grace is gods and therefore he must appoint the signs to represent and convey that , because he alone is the giver of it . . the cross in baptism is not intended by our church for a sign of immediate dedication to god , but of obligation on the person . it is true , that in the canon it is said , that this church retains the sign of the cross , following the example of the primitive and apostolical churches ; and accounteth it a lawfull outward ceremony and honourable badge , whereby the infant is dedicated to the service of him who died upon the cross. but for the right understanding thereof , we must consider , that baptism is declared to be compleat before ; so that the sign of the cross adds nothing to the perfection or vertue of it , nor being omitted , takes nothing from it ; as it is there expressed as the sense of this church . this therefore , is no part of the baptismal dedication . and the minister acts in a double capacity , when he doth baptize , and when he signs with the sign of the cross : when he baptizeth , he acts by vertue of authority derived from christ , i baptize thee in the name of the father , &c. which being done , and the child thereby solemnly dedicated to god in baptism ; he then speaks in the name of the church , varying the number ; we receive this child into the congregation of christ 's flock , and do sign him with the sign of the cross , &c. i. e. we christians that are already members of christ's flock do receive him into our number ; and in token of his being obliged to perform the duty belonging to such a one , do make use of this sign of the cross , as the rite of admission into the church , and of his obligation to behave himself , as becomes a christian. and if we consider the sign of the cross in this sense , as no doubt it was so intended , all the difficulties about a dedicating , covenanting , symbolical , sacramental sign , concerning which some have made so great a stir , will soon appear to be of no force . for why may not the church appoint such a rite of admission of one of her members declaring it to be no part of baptism ? let us suppose an adult person to be baptized , and immediately after baptism to be admitted a member of an independent church ; and the ceremony of this admission to be holding up of his hand in token of his owning the church-covenant , i. e. of promising to live as a church-member ought to doe among them ; the pastour of the church then baptizes him , and immediately after , upon the holding up of his hand in token of his owning the church-covenant , he saith in the name of the church , we receive thee into this congregation , and accept of thy holding up of thy hand as a token that thou wilt hereafter behave thy self as a church-member ought to do among us . what harm is there in all this ? and yet is not this a professing , dedicating , covenanting , symbolical , sacramental sign , as much as the sign of the cross is among us ? doth not holding up the hand signify and represent ? is it not therefore a significant and symbolical ceremony ? doth it not import an obligation lying on the person ? is it not therefore dedicating , covenanting , and sacramental , as much as the sign of the cross ? why then should this be scrupled more than the other ? and by this mr. b.'s great mistake appears about this matter ; who supposeth that the minister speaketh in the name of christ when he signs with the sign of the cross ; and as god's officer from him , and so dedicates him by this sign to the service of him that died upon the cross ; whereas the minister in the act speaks in the name of the church , as evidently appears by those words , we receive him into the congregation of christ 's flock ; and then follows , as the solemn rite of admission , and do sign him with the sign of the cross , &c. all publick and solemn admissions into societies , having some peculiar ceremony belonging to them . and so as baptism besides its sacramental efficacy is a rite of admission into christ's catholick church ; so the sign of the cross is into our church of england : in which this ceremony is used , without any prescription to other churchs . sect. . but saith mr. b. though the sign of the cross may be lawfull , as a transient , arbitrary , professing sign ; yet not as a dedicating sign , and as the common professing symbol of baptized persons . if it be lawfull in the former sense , i cannot understand how it should be unlawfull in the latter . yes , saith he , the instituting of the latter belongs to god onely . how doth that appear ? because he hath made two sacraments already for that end . true , but not onely for that end ; but to be the means and instruments of conveying his grace to men ; which none but god himself can doe , and therefore none but he ought to appoint the means for that end . and we account it an unsufferable insolency in the roman churches , for them to take upon them to make application of the merits of christ to rites of their own institution ; which is the onely possible way for a church to make new sacraments ; but if every significant custom in a church must pass for a new sacrament , then sitting at the sacrament is a new sacrament , because we are told it betokens rest and communion with christ ; then putting off the hat in prayer is a new sacrament , because it is a professing sign of reverence ; then laying on the hand , and kissing the book in swearing are new sacraments , because they are publick symbolical rites . but saith mr. b. it belongeth onely to the king to make the common badge or symbol of his own subjects . yet i hope , every nobleman or gentleman may give a distinct livery without treason . and therefore why may not every church appoint its own rite of admission of members into its body ? but the obligation here is to the common duties of christians . and is not every church-member bound to perform these ? that which is peculiar , is the manner of admission by the sign of the cross ; and this rite our church imposes on no others but its own members , i. e. makes it necessary to none else ; and to shew it to be onely a solemn rite of admission , it allows it to be forborn in private baptism . but saith mr. b. christs sacraments or symbols are sufficient , we need not devise more , and accuse his institutions of insufficiency . if it be lawfull , the church is to judge of the expediency ; and not every private person . and to appoint other rites that do not encroach upon the institutions of christ , by challenging any effect peculiar to them , is no charging them with insufficiency . well , saith mr. b. but it is unlawfull on another account , viz. as it is an image used as a medium in god's worship , and so forbidden in the second commandment . he may as well make it unlawfull to use words in god's worship , for are not they images and represent things to our minds , as well as a transient sign of the cross ? nay , doth not mr. b. in the same place make it lawfull to make an image an object or medium of our consideration exciting our minds to worship god ? as he instanceth in a crucifix , or historical image of christ , or some holy man. if any divine of the church of england had said any thing to this purpose , what out-cries of popery had been made against us ? how many advances had we presently made for letting in the grossest idolatry ? how many divines of the church of rome had been quoted , to shew , that they went no further and desired no more than this ? yet the transient sign of the cross , without any respect to worship , is condemned among us , as forbidden by the second commandment ; and that by the same person and in the same page . but it is used as a medium in god's worship . is our worship directed to it ? or , do we kneel before it , as mr. b. allows men may do before a crucifix ? do we declare that we are excited by it to worship god ? no ; all these are rejected by our church . how then is it a medium in god's worship ? why forsooth , it is not a meer circumstance but an outward act of worship . what , as much as kneeling before a crucifix ? and yet that is lawfull according to him , supposing the mind be onely excited by it . suppose then we onely use the sign of the cross to excite mens consideration in the act of worship ; what harm were in it upon mr. b.'s ground ? but our church allows not so much , onely taking it for a lawfull outward ceremony , which hath nothing of worship belonging to it ; how comes it then to be a medium in god's worship ? for mr. b. saith , in the same place , there is a twofold medium in god's worship . . medium excitans , that raises our minds to worship god , as a crucifix , &c. . medium terminans ; or as he calls it terminus , in genere causae finalis , a worshipped medium or the terminus , or the thing which we worship mediately , on pretence of representing god , and that we worship him in it ultimately . and this he takes to be the thing forbidden directly in the second commandment , viz. to worship a creature ( with mind or body ) in the act of divine worship , as representing god , or as the mediate term of our worship , by which we send it unto god , as if it were more acceptable to him . so that it is lawfull , saith he , by the sight of a crucifix to be provoked to worship god , but it 's unlawfull to offer him that worship , by offering it to the crucifix first , as the sign , way , or means of sending it to god. observe here a strange piece of partiality . . it is allowed to be lawfull to pray before a crucifix , as a medium excitans , as an object that stirs up in us a worshipping affection ; and so all those papists are excused from idolatry who profess they use a crucifix for no other end , although they perform all acts of adoration before it ; and it will become a very hard question whether the mind in its consideration , uniting the image with the object may not give the same acts of worship to one as to the other , but in different respects . for the image being allowed to excite the mind to consideration of the object to be worshipped , the object is considered in the mind as represented by the image , and consequently is so worshipped ; and why then may not the worship be as well directed to the image as representing , as to the object represented by the image ; provided , that the act of the mind be still fixed upon the object as represented by the image ? and thus even latria may be performed to a crucifix . is not this a very fair concession to the papists ? but on the other side , . the sign of the cross , even the aëreal sign , as dr. o. calls it , must be made a medium in god's worship , though it be utterly denied by our church ; and there be no colour for it , from his own grounds . for it is neither medium excitans , being not intended by our church for that purpose , a crucifix being much fitter for that purpose ; and our church calls it onely a lawfull ceremony and honourable badge ; much less can it be thought to be any mediate object of our worship , there being nothing like worship performed towards it . but if all his meaning be , that whatever is used in the time of worship that is not a meer circumstance must be a medium of worship , that is so weak a pretence , that i shall consider it no farther . sect. . but suppose it be no medium of worship , yet it cannot out of mr. b. 's head , but that it must be a new sacrament ; for , saith he , if christ had instituted the cross as our church doth ; would you not have called this a sacrament ? and if it want but divine institution and benediction , it wanteth indeed a due efficient , but it is still a human sacrament though not a divine , and therefore an unlawfull sacrament . if christ had instituted it with such promises , as he hath his other sacraments , no doubt it had been one ; but then the use of it had been quite changed , from what it is now . for then its signification had been from god to us ; and the minister had signed in christ's name and not in the churches ; and then it had been in token that christ will not fail of his promise , if we perform our conditions . but here it is quite contrary , as hath already appeared . there is one thing yet remaining in mr. b. about this matter to be considered , viz. that according to the rule of our church , the cross in baptism hath a sacramental efficacy attributed to it ; for , saith he , as the water of baptism worketh morally , by signifying the washing of christ's body ; so the cross is to operate morally , by signifying christ's crucifixion , the benefits of his cross and our duty . and then he adds , that it is the common doctrine of protestants that the sacraments are not instituted to give grace physically , but onely morally ; and that even the wisest papists themselves do maintain onely such moral causality in sacraments . and so by this means he would make the sign of the cross to have the nature of a sacrament with us . but that he hath misrepresented or misapplied both the popish and protestant doctrine about the efficacy of sacraments to serve his purpose , i shall now make appear , . concerning the popish doctrine ; that which overthrows the strength of all that mr. b. saith is , that it is unanimously agreed among them as a matter of faith , that the sacraments do confer grace , ex opere operato , where there is no actual impediment ; and that it is no less than heresie to assert , that they are bare outward professing signs , i. e. that they are meer ceremonies . this not one of them , whom i ever saw , either denies , or disputes ; and it is expresly determin'd in the councils of florence and of trent . but then they have a very nice and subtle question among them about the manner how the sacraments do confer grace , whether physically or morally . by physically , they mean , when a thing by its own immediate action hath influence on producing the effect ; by morally , they mean that which doth effectually concurr to the producing the effect , but after another manner , as by perswasion , by intreaty , &c. as he that runs the sword into anothers bowels , kills him physically ; he that perswades and incourages him effectually to doe it , is as really the cause of his death as the other ; but then they say , he is but a moral and not a physical cause of the murther . they all agree , that the sacraments do effectually convey grace , where there is no obstacle put ; but the onely question is , about the manner of producing it . and as to this they agree , that the sacraments do work as moral causes , not principal but instrumental ; the principal they say is the merit of christ , the instrumental the sacraments as deriving their efficacy from the former ; as the writing from the seal , and the seal from the authority of the person ; or as money from the stamp , and the stamp from the king : but besides this , they question whether there be not a proper efficiency by divine power in the sacraments , to produce at least the character from whence divine grace immediately follows . and about this indeed they are divided . some say , there is no necessity of asserting more than a bare moral causality ; because this is sufficient for the infallible efficacy of the sacraments , sublato obice , as gamachaeus a late professour in the sorbon delivers their doctrine : and of this opinion , he reckons bonaventure , altissidore , scotus , durandus , canus , ledesma , and many others : and with this he closes , because this is sufficient , and the other is to make miracles without cause ; as long as the effect follows certò , infallibiliter & ex opere operato , as he there speaks . and for the same reason card. de lugo yields to it , although he there saith , that a sacrament is signum practicum infallibile gratiae . so that those who do assert onely this moral causality of sacraments , do not suppose any uncertainty in the effect , any more than the others do , but onely differ about the way of producing it . yet ysambertus , another late professour of the sorbon proves the doctrine of a physical efficiency to be much more agreeable to the sense of their church ; and that the argument is of no force against it , because it is so hard to be understood , for then they must quit many other doctrines besides this . ioh. baptista gonet , a late learned thomist not onely contends earnestly for this opinion , but saith , the greater part of their divines assert it , and those of greatest reputation , as ruardus tapper , vega , sayrus , ysambertus , suarez , valentia , bellarmin , reginaldus , moeratius , ripalda and many more . and conquetius , he saith , reckons up fifty three eminent divines who hold the physical causality of the sacrament . so that mr. b. is both very much mistaken in the common doctrine of the roman schools , and in applying the moral causality of the sacraments , as it is asserted by their divines , to the significancy of our ceremonies . . as to the protestant doctrines , he represents that in very ambiguous terms ; for , he saith , that protestants commonly maintain that the sacraments are not instituted to give grace physically , but onely morally . if it be their doctrine , that the sacraments are instituted for the conveying of grace at all , which he seems to yield ; ( and if he did not , might be fully proved from the testimonies of the most eminent reformers abroad , as well as at home ) this is sufficient to shew that the sign of the cross can never be advanced to the dignity of a sacrament among us ; since in no sense it is held to be an instrument appointed for the conveying of grace . and so this phrase of a new sacrament is a thing onely invented to amuse and perplex tender and injudicious persons . there being not the least ground for it , that i can discern ; and yet such pretences as these have served to darken people's minds , and have filled them with strange fears and scruples ; yea , some who have conquer'd their prejudices as to other things , have not been able to get over this mighty stumbling-block ; which i have therefore taken the more pains to remove out of their way . and yet after all , mr. b. declares , that if it be a sin , it is the ministers , and not the person 's who offers the child to be baptized ; and another man's sinfull mode will not justifie the neglect of our duty . and therefore supposing the sign of the cross to be as bad as some make it , yet it can be no pretence for separation . sect. . but mr. a. hath a farther blow at our church , for allowing worshipping towards the altar , the east , and at the sound of the word iesus ; which , he saith , are made the motive of worship , if not something else . the lawfulness of these things , so far , as they are required by our church , i had formerly defended against the papists , and now mr. a. borrows their weapons from them ; although he doth not manage them with that skill and dexterity which t. g. used . i had said , that bowing at the name of iesus , was no more than going to church at the toll of a bell , the worship being not given to the name , but to christ at the sound of his name . why may not , saith he , an image give warning to the eye , when to worship god , as well as a bell to the ear ? i will tell him , since he needs it , because an image is a mighty disparagement to an infinite and invisible being ; it is directly contrary to his law to worship him by an image ; it is against the sense of the christian church in its best and purest ages ; this one would have thought i had proved so much against the papists , that i had little reason to expect such a question from a protestant . but such men do too much discover , whose part they are willing to take against the church of england . he grants the papists go too far in preferring an image higher than to be motivum cultûs , but the question is , whether they do not sin in applying it to this lower use , to make it an ordinary stated motive to worship . when i read this , i began to pity the man , being in some fear lest something had a little disordered his fancy . for where do we ever allow such an use of images in our church ? if he had written against mr. b. who allows a crucifix to be medium excitans , he had some reason to have answered him , but i have none . but he brings it home to us ; for , saith he , if men do sin who make an image an ordinary stated motive of worship , then how shall we excuse our own adorations ? what doth the man mean ? i am yet afraid , all things are not right somewhere . we acknowledge no adorations , but what are due to the divine majesty ; and do these need to be excused ? and what consequence is there from the unlawfulness of the worship of images , against our worshipping of god ? let him first prove , that we give adoration to any besides the divine majesty , before we shall go about to excuse our adorations . but if men do not sin in making an image a stated motive of worship ( whoever said they did not ? i am sure , not our church . but let this pass , what follows ? ) then , saith he , why do we not introduce images into our churches ? ask mr. b. that question , and not us of the church of england . if we allowed the worship of images to be lawfull , this were a pertinent question ; but since we deny it , what makes all this against us ? which if our church-men shall venture upon ; i pray stay till they do , before you charge us with it . are not these men hugely to seek for arguments against our church that talk at this rate ? but , he saith , they may doe it with equal reason . here is something now fit to be proved . we utterly deny that we may worship images on the same reason , that we perform external adoration to god by bowing the body ; or to iesus at the mention of his name . hold now to this , and prove it . instead of that , he shews the difference between going to church at the sound of a bell , and bowing at the name of iesus ; viz. that the bell tolls out of worship to bring them to it ; but the sound of the word iesus is in the middle of worship , when mens minds should be intent on devotion , and not sit listening and watching , as whittington ' s cat watcht the mouse , ( there 't is for you , viz. what he hath laboured for all this while ) for the casual starting of a word , and the dropping of two syllables . but the question is not about the seasonableness of doing this when we are in other acts of devotion and immediate application to god , which no body contends for , that i know of , but about the lawfulness of doing it in the time of divine service , when we hear the name of iesus repeated in the lessons , or the creed ; and the canon which requires it refers to the former custom , and in the injunctions of queen elizabeth , the lessons and sermons are mentioned particularly ; and although it be said , or otherwise in the church pronounced , yet by the manner of shewing this reverence , viz. with lowness of courtesie and uncovering of heads of mankind ; it supposeth them at that time not to be imployed in any other act of devotion . and so it gives no interruption to the intention of it ; nor obliges men to lie at the catch for the coming of the word , as though all our worship consisted in it ; but since our church approves it as a laudable ceremony , we ought not to refuse it at seasonable times ; unless it can be proved unlawfull in it self . which i say , can never be done , as long as the worship is directed to a true object , viz. the person of christ ; and the mention of his name , onely expresses the time , as the tolling the bell doth of going to church . neither doth it signifie any thing to this purpose , whether persons be in the church or out of it , when the bell rings ; for in the same page he mentions the mass-bell ; which sounds to the people in the church as well as out of it ; and if the object of their worship were true , as it is false , that would make him better understand the parallel . but , saith he , if it be a duty to give external reverence to god , when ever the word iesus is mentioned , there is more need of it in our ordinary converses , and the secular affairs of the world ; and so , he addes , this word might do the service of the mass-bell going about the streets , at which all are bound to fall down and worship . now , what a strange piece of crosness is this , to dispute the lawfulness of doing it at church , because we do it not at the market-place ? my business is to defend what our church requires , if he will allow that , and thinks it convenient to do it likewise in common conversation , let him defend his own new invented wayes of reverence ; as for us , we think there are proper seasons for divine worship , and that it is not enough to do what is lawful , unless it be done at its convenient time , but there are some men , who know no mean between doing nothing , and over-doing . but is this becoming a protestant divine to parallel the worship we give to the eternal son of god , as our church declares , can. . and that which the papists give to the host , when it is carried up and down the streets ? at last , he commends the moderation of the canon , . about bowing towards the east or altar , that they which use this rite , despise not them who use it not ; and they who use it not , condemn not those that use it : but he would fain know why the same moderation should not be used in other rites , as the sign of the cr●s● , and kneeling at the lords supper ? it had been much more to his purpose to have proved any thing unlawful which had been required by our church . but the case was not the same as to those things which were required by our church , ever since the reformation ▪ and as to some customes , which although in themselves lawful , yet were never strictly enjoyned , but left indifferent . and therefore the moderation used in the canon , , was very suitable to the principles of our church ; but how doth it follow , that because some things are left at liberty , therefore nothing should be determin'd ; or being determin'd ought not to be obeyed ? it was the great wisdom of our church not to make more things necessary ( as to practice ) than were made so at the settlement of our reformation ; but whether there be sufficient reason to alter those terms of communion which were then settled , for the sake of such whose scruples are groundless and endless , i do not take upon me here to determine . but as far as i can perceive by mr. a. he thinks the apostles rule of forbearance , rom. . to be of equal force in all ages , and as to all things , about which christians have different apprehensions ; and then the papists come in for an equal share in such a toleration . and so those who do not worship the host , or images , or use auricular confession , must not censure those that do , unless he will say , that the papists have no scruple of conscience , as to such things ; but if notwithstanding these scruples , our laws put a just restraint upon them , then the rule of forbearance , rom. . is no obligatory law to christians in all ages ; and consequently , notwithstanding that , our church may justly require the observation of some things , though it leaves others undetermin'd . but he saith , these customes though left indifferent , are still observed among us , and practised by all the leading church-men . and what then ? are they lawful , or are they not ? if not , why are they not proved to be unlawful ? and if that were proved , what is all this to the point of separation , unless they were enjoyned to all people , and made terms of communion ; i. e. that persons were not allowed to joyn in all acts of communion with us , unless they did them . however , he thinks this will prove ( what , that they differ from us in any substantial part of worship ? no , he dares not say that : but what then ? ) that we differ in more than a circumstance , even at least in a circumstantial part of worship , yet we must be supposed to be agreed . to convince the reader , what an admirable faculty of proving this man hath , let him but look on the thing he undertook to prove . i had said , that we were agreed in the substantial parts of worship ; this he undertakes to disprove , for two or three leaves together , and the conclusion is , that at least we differ in a circumstantial part of worship , and his consequence must be , therefore we differ in a substantial , or else it is idle and impertinent talk . t. g. would have been ashamed to have argued after this fashion : but they are to be pittied , they both do as well , as their cause will bear . yet mr. a. cannot give over , for he hath a very good will at proving something against our church , although he hath very ill luck in the doing of it . my argument was , if it be lawful to separate upon pretence of greater purity , where there is an agreement in doctrine , and the substantial parts of worship , then a bare difference in opinion , as to some circumstantials in worship and the best constitution of churches will be a sufficient ground to break communion and to set up new churches . hitherto we have considered his denial of the antecedent ; and the charge he hath brought against our church , about new substantial parts of worship ; we now come to his denying the consequence , viz. that although it be granted that there is an agreement in doctrine and the substantial parts of worship , yet he will not allow it to follow that a bare difference in opinion as to some circumstantials will be sufficient ground to break communion and to set up new churches . to understand the consequence we must suppose , . an agreement in the substantial parts of worship . . a separation , for greater parity of worship . and what then can justifie this separation , but a difference of opinion as to some circumstantials in worship ? hold , saith he , the consequence is not good , for there are certain middle things , between substantial parts of worship and bare circumstances , about which it will be lawful to divide , though otherwise we agree in doctrine , and the substantial parts of worship . so that here a separation is justified ( . ) on the account of such things , which are confessed to be neither substantial nor circumstantial parts of worship , ( . ) although there be an agreement in the substantial parts of worship ; and consequently , although these middle kind of things be not made substantial parts of worship . for that he charged us with in the antecedent ; and now allowing the antecedent and denying the consequence , he must grant , that it is lawful to separate on the account of ceremonies , although they be made no parts of worship at all . for if they be neither substantial nor circumstantial parts of worship , they can be none at all ; and yet he saith , it is lawful to divide about them . and which is more pleasant , when he goes about to prove the lawfulness of separating for the sake of these things , he doth it by undertaking to shew , that they are made substantial parts of worship . for thus he argues , the church of england hath exalted these things , i. e. ceremonies , to a high preferment in worship , to signifie the same things with the sacramental elements , to make them necessary to salvation as far as man can make them ; and therefore they conclude them sinful . if their preferment in worship makes them sinful , then they must be either substantial , or circumstantial parts of worship , and their separation is not upon the account of their being ceremonies , but those ceremonies are supposed to be made parts of worship , which i have answered already . but after all our arguings about these matters , mr. a. saith , the controversie stands still , where it did these hundred years , and more : i utterly deny that , for the nonconformists have advanced more towards separation these last ten years , than they did in a hundred years before ; as appears by the foregoing discourse . however , they are still unsatisfied in conscience about these matters , and so long they cannot joyn with us , and our church excommunicates those who condemn our ceremonies ; so that there appears from hence a necessity of separation ; and if it be necessary it cannot be denied to be lawful . this is the fairest remaining plea for separation , which i shall consider both wayes . ( . ) as it respects the churches censures . ( . ) as it respects the judgement of conscience . . as it respects the churches censures . this mr. b. often insists upon . the canons , saith he , excommucate ipso facto , all that say the imposed conformity is unlawful . if this be unjust , is it separation to be so excommunicated ? and who is the schismatick here ? would you have excommunicate men communicate with you ? and if men be wrongfully excommunicate , are they thereby absolved from all publick worshipping of god ? or do they lose their right to all church-communion ? to this i answer , that the excommunication denounced , is not against such as modestly scruple the lawfulness of things imposed , but against those who obstinately affirm it ? the words of the canon are not , as mr. b. quotes them , if any one do but affirm any thing in the liturgy , ceremonies , &c. to be unlawful are excommunicate , ipso facto ; but whosoever shall affirm the ceremonies of the church of england , established by law , to be impious , anti-christian , or superstitious , let him be excommunicate ipso facto . mr. b.'s words bear quite another sense from those of the canon ; for to say , if any man do but affirm , &c. it implies that a bare single affirmation incurrs excommunication ipso facto ; but when the canon saith , if any shall affirm , &c , it implies , these circumstances which according to the common sense of mankind do deserve excommunication , viz. that it be done publickly and obstinately : ( both which the word affirm will bear . ) for , as s. augustin very well saith , every mans errour is born with , until he either finds an accuser , or he obstinately defends his opinion . tam diu sustinetur peccatum aut error cujus●ibet , donec aut accusatorem inveniat , aut pravam opinionem pertinaci animositate defendat . all excommunication doth suppose precedent admonition , according to the rule , if he will not hear the church , let him be as an heathen , or a publican . therefore general excommunications although they be latae sententiae as the canonists speak , do not affect particular persons , until the evidence be notorious , not only of the bare fact but of the contumacy joyned with it . besides , such excommunications which are de jure & latae sententiae , are rather to be looked on , as comminations , than as formal excommunications . for gerson putting the question , what the effect of such excommunications is ? he answers , that it is no more than this , that there needs no new judicial process , but upon proof or confession the iudge may pronounce the sentence . which , he saith , he learnt from his master , who was pet. de alliaco the famous cardinal of cambray . and if it requires a new sentence , then it doth not actually excommunicate . but of this the learned arch-bishop of spalato hath discoursed coursed at large ; to whom i refer the reader . as to the practice of canon law in england , lyndwood saith , that a declaratory sentence of the judge is necessary , notwithstanding the excommunication ipso facto . and it is a rule in our church , that persons excommunicate are to be publickly denounced excommunicate in a cathedral or parochial church every six months , that others may have notice of them ; and until the sentence be thus declared , i do not know how far particular persons can think themselves obliged to forbear communion on the account of a general sentence of excommunication , though it be said to be ipso facto . for although the sentence seem peremptory , yet ipso facto , doth suppose a fact , and such as deserves excommunication in the sense of the church ; of which there must be evident proof brought , before the sentence can take hold of the person . and to make the sentence valid as to the person , there must be due execution of it ; and the question in this case then is , whether any person knowing himself to be under such qualifications which incur a sentence of excommunication , be bound to execute this sentence upon himself ? which he must do , if he thinks himself bound to separate from our church on the account of this general excommunication . and so mr. b. himself seems to resolve this point ; although , saith he , we are excommunicated ipso facto , yet we are not bound our selves to execute their sentence ; but may stay in communion till they prove the fact , and do the execution on us themselves by refusing us . and so he hath fully answered his own objection . but can those be called schismaticks for not communicating with a church , who are first excommunicated by that church ? yes , in these cases they may ( . ) when there is a just and sufficient cause for that sentence . for , otherwise , no church could condemn any excommunicated persons for schism ; if it declared before hand , that all those who held such doctrines , or condemned such practices , should be excommunicated . to make this plain by instances : suppose the churches of new england declare the sentence of excommunication ipso facto against all that oppose infant-baptism ; r. williams and his company oppose it ; they upon this are actually excommunicated ; may the churches of new england call these men schismaticks or not ? if they are schismaticks notwithstanding the sentence of excommunication ; then the denouncing this sentence before hand doth not excuse them from the guilt of schism . by the constitution of the churches of france , every minister that refuses to subscribe to the orders among them is to be declared a schismatick ; would this make such a one not to be a schismatick , because this amounts to an excommunication , ipso facto ? so in scotland . subscription to the presbyterian discipline was required under pain of excommunication ; if any had been excommunicated on this account , would this excuse them from the charge of schism , in the judgement of the covenanters ? by the constitutions of geneva , any one that opposes , or contemns the authority of that church for a year together , is liable to the sentence of banishment for a whole year ; as calvin himself relates it . suppose this were meerly excommunication for so long ; would not calvin have thought them schismaticks for all that ? for he fully declares his mind in this case , on occasion of a certain non-conformist in an epistle to farell ; where he advises that he should be first summoned before the magistrate ; if that did not prevail , they should proceed to excommunication of a person who by his obstinacy disturbed the order of the church ; which , saith he , is agreeable to ancient councils and the mind of god in scripture ; therefore let him that will not submit to the orders of a society be cast out of it . here we see excommunication justified against such as refuse to obey the orders of a church ; and much more certainly , if they publickly affirm them to be impious , antichristian or superstitious as . canon expresseth : and no church in the world , but will think excommunication reasonable upon the like grounds ; and therefore if there be such a thing as schism , they may be guilty of it still , although excommunication be denounced against them on such accounts . ( . ) if they proceed to form new churches ; as will appear evident to any one that reflects on the former instances ; and let him judge , whether all persons so excommunicated , would not have been condemned much more for schismaticks , if they had set up new churches in opposition to theirs . s. augustin puts the case of good men unjustly excommunicated ; and he saith , they are to bear it with patience , for the peace of the church , and such will still maintain the true faith , sine ullâ conventiculorum segregatione , without running into separate meetings ; although they do believe themselves unjustly excommunicated . such as these , saith he , the father which seeth in secret , will reward and crown in secret . this kind seems very rare , but there want not instances , yea , there are more than can be believed . . as to the judgement of conscience . the author of the letter out of the countrey lays the foundation of the separation upon the force of scruples , mighty scruples , scruples of a long standing , and of a large extent , scruples that there is no hopes to remove , without some very overpowering impression on mens minds . i am so much of another mind , that i think a little impartiality , and due consideration would do the business ; but as long as men read and hear and judge only of one side , and think it a temptation to examine things as they ought to do , and cry out , they are satisfied already , there is not much hopes of doing good upon such , but i think they can have no great comfort in such scruples . men that really scruple things out of tenderness of conscience , are sincerely willing to be better informed , and glad of any light that brings them satisfaction , and do not fly out into rage , and violent passion against those who offer to remove their scruples . hath this been the temper of our scrupulous brethren of late ? let their scruples be touched never so tenderly , they cannot bear it , and take it extremely ill of those who would better inform them . mr. b. freely tells me , that he that thinks his own , or others reasonings will ever change all the truely honest christians in the land ( as to the unlawfulness of the things imposed ) knoweth so little of matters , or of men , or of conscience , as that he is unmeet to be a bishop or a priest. what is the reason of such a severe saying ? where lies the strength and evidence of these scruples ? why may not honest men be cured of their errors and mistakes , as i am perswaded these are such which they call scruples ? is there no hopes to bring the people to a better temper , and more judgement ? for i know nothing more is necessary for the cure of them . here is no depth of learning , no subtilty of reasoning , no endless quotation of fathers necessary about these matters . the dispute lies in a narrow compass , and men may see light if they will. but what if they will not ? then we are to consider , how far a wilfull mistake or error of conscience , will justifie men ? i say it doth not , cannot justifie them in doing evil ; and that i am sure breaking the peace of the church for the sake of such scruples , is . and this i had said in my sermon , which i take to be very material for our scrupulous persons to consider . for suppose they should be mistaken , doth this error of conscience justifie their separation , or not ? if not , they may be in an ill condition , for all their scruples , or their confidence . and so mr. baxter hath long since declared , that if we do through weakness , or perverseness take lawful things to be unlawful , that will not excuse us in our disobedience . our error is our sin , and one sin will not excuse another sin . but mr. a. saith , ( ) that i do ill to put together wilfull error and mistake of conscience , when i say they do not excuse from sin , since there is so great a difference between a wilfull error and a mistake of simple ignorance . what strange cavilling is this ? when any one may see that i join wilfull both to error and mistake . and is not a mistake or error of conscience all one ? if i had said a mistake of simple ignorance doth not excuse from sin , i had contradicted the whole design of that discourse , which is to shew that there must be wilfulness in the error or mistake which doth not excuse . for i say expresly , if the error be wholly involuntary , it doth excuse . this is but a bad beginning in a discourse about conscience . . if no error will excuse from sin , why is the question afterwards put by me , what error will excuse ? i answer , ( . ) it is an exercise of patience , to be troubled with a cavilling adversary . ( . ) do not i say as plainly , as words can express it , that a wilful error doth not excuse from sin ? and the question afterwards put , concerns the same thing ; and the answer i give to it is , if the error be wholly involuntary , it doth excuse , but if it be wilful it doth not . is this mans conscience full of scruples that writes at this rate , with so little regard to the plain meaning and words of him whom he pretends to confute ? . he saith , i put one of the wildest cases that ever was put , viz. if a man think himself bound to divide the church by sinful separation , that separation is nevertheless a sin for his thinking himself bound to do it . for ( . ) it may be justly questioned , whether it be possible for a man in his wits to think himself bound to divide the church by sinful separation . what sophisters arguments are these ? as though we did not commonly speak of the thing as it is , and not as the person apprehends it . s. paul did think himself bound to a sinful persecution , although he did not think it so , when he did it . the iews thought themselves bound to kill the apostles , which was wilful murder , and yet they were men in their wits . the false apostles thought themselves bound to divide the church by a sinful separation . how then comes this to be thought so impossible a case as to the thing it self ? for i was not so foolish to put the case concerning men , who thought themselves bound to commit a sin , knowing it to be a sin . ( . ) he much questions , whether ever any did think himself bound to divide a church , he may possibly think himself bound to avoid it . if he may think himself bound to do that which makes divisions in a church , it is sufficient to my purpose . and did not the false apostles do so , and have not others followed their examples ? and thus , after other trifling cavils to the same purpose , after his manner , he yields all that i say , and saith , it is freely granted by all the world , that wilful error doth not excuse from sin . and after many words about the case of an erroneous conscience , he concludes that i deliver nothing but the common doctrine of all casuists ; only he thinks it not pertinent to the matter in hand . why so ? was not the matter in hand about the duty of complying with an established rule ? and was it not very pertinent to this , to shew how far an erroneous conscience may , or may not excuse from sin ? but mr. a. saith , it should have been about the power of conscience , concerning an established rule of mans making ; and such for which they have neither general nor particular warrant from god so to make . is not this indeed to the purpose ? first to suppose an unlawful rule imposed , and then to enquire what conscience is to do about it . my business was to shew , that men were not in doubtful cases to satisfie themselves with this , that they followed their consciences ; because their consciences might err , and if that error happened to be wilful , being contracted for want of due care , what they did , might not only be sinful in it self , but imputed to them as sins . which all men who pretended any regard to conscience ought to have an eye to : for why do they pretend conscience , but to ●void sin ? and if under a wilful error of 〈◊〉 they may still be guilty of great sins , as the ie●● and s. paul were , then men ought not to satisfie the●selves barely with this pretence , that they do as 〈…〉 direct them . this was the plain 〈◊〉 of that ●art of my sermon ; and i leave any 〈…〉 whether it were not pertinent . but he saith , 〈…〉 , if they be such , are wholl● 〈…〉 invincible ignorance . if 〈…〉 better for them . i hope they have 〈…〉 in their own breasts for it , than what appears in some of their late books ; for neither a peevish , angry , scornful , provoking way of writing about these matters ; nor a light , scurrilous , cavilling , sophistical answer to a serious discourse , are any great signs of such an impartial endeavour after satisfaction , as mr. a. boasts of . i cannot tell how much they have read the scriptures , and studied this controversie ; nor how earnestly they have pray'd for direction ; but i have seen enough of their unfriendly debates , which give me no great satisfaction in this matter . but i leave this to god and their own consciences to judge ; being very willing to hope and believe the best . to return to the author of the letter . the main force of what he saith , lies in this , that those who cannot conquer their scruples as to communion with our church , must either return to the state of paganism , or set up new churches by joyning with the ejected ministers . this is new doctrine , and never heard of in the dayes of the old puritans ; for they supposed men obliged to continue in the communion of this church , although there were some things they scrupled , and could not conquer those scruples . and this they supposed to be far enough from a state of paganism . but they scruple the vse of the sacraments with us ; and much more living under some of our ministers . i never heard this last alledged for a ground of separation till very lately , and it hath been considered already . and it is a very hard case with a church , if people must fly into separation , because all their ministers are not such as they ought to be . but if they do scruple joyning in communion with our church , i would fain know , whether as often as men do scruple joyning with others , their separation be lawful ? if it be , it is a vain thing to talk of any settled constitution of a church ; whether episcopal , presbyterian , or independent ; for this principle overthrows them all . i will instance particularly in the last , as most favourable to such kind of liberty . and i need not suppose a case , since such hath already happened several times in new england . r. williams is one remarkable instance , who scrupled many things in their churches , and therefore could joyn no longer with them ; and thought himself bound to set up a separate congregation among them ; and the people who scrupled as well as he , chose him for their pastor . what is there in this case , but is every whit as justifiable , as the present separation ? but did the churches of new england allow this for a just cause ? so far from it , that r. williams published grievous complaints to the world , of the persecution he underwent for it . mr. baxter mentions another instance since this from the mouth of mr. norton , an eminent minister of new england , viz. of a church that separated from a church , on the account of their preachers having human learning ; and upon all the applications and endeavours that could be used towards them , their answer was , that is your judgement , and this is ours , i. e. they could not conquer their scruples , and therefore must persist in separation , or return to paganism . mr. cobbet of new england mentions a third instance ; one obadiah holmes being unsatisfied with the proceedings of the church of rehoboth , withdraws from their communion , and sets up another assembly in the town ; and upon his obstinate continuance therein , was solemnly excommunicated by them . and what the late differences among them concerning the subject of baptism and consociation of churches may come to , time will discover . i would only know , whether if mr. davenport and the dissenting party there from the determination of their synod , should proceed to separation , whether this separation be justifiable or not ? this is certain , that the dissenters there do charge their brethren with innovation and apostasie from their first principles ; and say , their consciences cannot comply with their decrees : and if they proceed , those churches may be broken in pieces , by these principles of separation . as the separate congregations in the low countreys , most of them were by new scruples , which the people could not conquer ; for the anabaptists commonly raised scruples among their members , and carried away many of them . and so they had done in new england , and dissolved those churches before this time , if this principle had been allowed there , viz. that where people cannot conquer their scruples , they may proceed to separation . no , they tell them , they must preserve the peace of their churches , and if they cannot be quiet among them , the world is wide enough for them . so they sent r. williams and others out of their colonies ; notwithstanding the far greater danger of paganism among the indians . this i only mention , to shew that no settled church doth allow this liberty of separation , because men cannot conquer their scruples . and upon the same ground , not only anabaptists and quakers , but the papists themselves must be allowed the liberty of setting up separate congregations . for , i suppose this gentleman will not deny , but they may have scruples too , many scruples , and of long standing , and among great numbers , and they have priests enough at liberty to attend them . and by that time all these have set up among us , shall we not be in a very hopeful way to preserve the protestant religion ? these consequences do flow so naturally from such principles , that i wonder that none of those who have undertaken to defend the cause of separation , have taken any care to put any stop to it , or to let us know , where we may fix and see an end of it ; what scruples are to be allowed , and what not : and whether it be lawful to separate as long as men can go on in scrupling , and say they cannot conquer their scruples . are there no scruples among us , but only against the sign of the cross , and god-fathers and god-mothers in baptism , and kneeling at the lords supper ? are there none that scruple the lawfulness of infant-baptism among us ? are there none that scruple the very use of baptism and the lords supper , saying they are not to be literally understood ? are there none that scruple giving common respect to others as a sort of idolatry ? are there none that scruple the validity of our ordinations , and say , we can have no true churches , because we renounce communion with the pope ? what is to be done with all these , and many more scruplers , who profess they cannot conquer their scruples no more than others can do theirs about our ceremonies , and such weighty things as the use of god-fathers and god-mothers . this i mention , because this gentleman seems to look on it , as a more dreadful thing than the sign of the cross. for , having spoken of that , he addes , nor is it in it self of less weight ( perhaps 't is of much greater ) that in baptism the parents are not suffered to be sponsors for their children , but others must appear and undertake for them : which he repeats soon after . and yet t. c. who saw as much into these matters , as any that have come after him , in the admonitions declared , that this was a thing arbitrary , and left to the discretion of the church . and in his first answer he saith , for the thing it self , considering that it is so generally received of all the churches , they do not mislike of it . so that , on the same ground it seems , all o●●er protestant churches may be scrupled at , as well as ours ; and yet not only this gentleman , but mr. b. several times mentions this , as one of the grounds of the unlawfulness of the peoples joyning in communion with us : nay , he calls this , his greatest objection ; and yet he confesseth , that if the sponsors do but represent the parents , our baptism is valid and lawful . now where is it , that our church excludes such a representation ? indeed by canon , the parents are not to be compelled to be present , nor suffered to answer , as susceptors for their children ; but the parents are to provide such as are fit to undertake that office. in the bohemian churches , there seems to be an express compact between the parents and the sponsors ; but there is no declaration of our church against such an implicit one , as may be reasonably inferred from the consent of the parties . for the parents desire of the sponsors undertaking such an office for his child is in effect transferring his own right to them ; and so they may be said to represent the parents . if our church had appointed the sponsors without 〈◊〉 against the consent of the parents ; then none cou●● in reason suppose , that there was any implicit compact between them . but since they are of the parents choosing , what they do in that office , is supposed to be with their full consent . if baptism were solemnly celebrated as of old , at some certain seasons only , and indispensable occasions required the parents absence , might not they appoint others to be sponsors for their children upon mutual consent and agreement among themselves ? our churches not permitting the parents themselves to be sponsors is but like such an occasion of absence ; and the intentention of our church is not to supersede the obligation of parents , but to superinduce a farther obligation upon other persons for greater security of performance . if men be negligent in doing their duty , must the church bear the blame , and this be pleaded for a ground of separation from her communion ? but there is something beyond this , which lies at the bottom of this scruple ; viz. that the child 's right to baptism depends on the right of the parents , and therefore if the parents be excluded , and only sponsors admitted , the children so baptized have no right to baptism . for mr. b.'s first question is , which way the child cometh to have right to baptism , any more than all the infidels children in the world ? and his next is , whether the church of england require any ground of title in the infant , besides the sponsion of the fore-described god-fathers , and gods general promise ? i answer , ( . ) the church by requiring sponsors doth not exclude any title to baptism , which the child hath by the right of the parents . for the sponsors may be supposed to appear in a threefold capacity . . as representing the parents in offering up the child to baptism ; and so whatever right the parents have , that is challenged , when the child is brought to be baptized . . as representing the child in the answers that are made in baptism ; which is a very ancient and universal practice of the christian church ; for it was not only observed in the latin churches in s. augustins time ; and in the greek churches in s. chrysostom's ; and hath so continued ever since ; but the aethiopick and armenian churches do still observe it . . in their own capacity ; when they promise to take care of the good education of the child in the principles of the christian faith ; in the charge given to them , after baptism . so that since one of these capacities doth not destroy another , they all succeeding each other , there is no reason to say that the church doth exclude the right which comes by the parents . ( ) if the parents be supposed to have no right , yet upon the sponsion of god-fathers , the church may have right to administer baptism to children . not , as though their sponsion gave the right , but was only intended to make them parties to the covenant in the childs name and sureties for performance . to make this clear , we must consider , that administration of baptism , is one considerable part of the power of the keys , which christ first gave to the apostles , and is ever since continued in the officers of the church . by vertue of this power , they have authority to give admission into the church to capable subjects . the church of christ , as far as we can trace any records of antiquity , hath alwayes allowed children to be capable subjects of admission into the christian church ; but lest the church should fail of its end , and these children not be afterwards well instructed in their duty , it required sponsors for them , who were not only to take care of them for the future but to stand as their sureties to ratifie their part of the covenant which baptism implyes . and the ancient church went no farther as to the right of baptism than this , for since the power of the keys was in the church to give admission to capable subjects ; since the catholick church did alwayes judge infants capable , there seemed to be no more necessary for their admission than the undertaking of sponsors in their name . all this appears from s. augustines epistle , ad bonifacium ; where he saith ( . ) that the childs benefit by baptism doth not depend upon the intention of those that offer him . for boniface put the question to s. augustin about some who offered children to baptism , not for any spiritual benefit , but for corporal health ; notwithstanding this , saith s. augustine , if the due form of baptism be observed , the spiritual effect of it is obtained . ( . ) that the churches right is chiefly concerned in the baptism of infants . for , saith he , the children are offered to baptism and the spiritual grace to be received thereby , not so much by those in whose arms they are carried ( for so the sponsors used to carry them in their right arms ) as by the whole society of the faithful . tota ergo mater ecclesia quae in sanctis est facit , quia tota omnes , tota singulos parit : so that it is by the churches right , that he supposeth them to receive baptism and the benefits by it . ( . ) that there is no necessity , that the parents themselves offer their children . for he calls it a mistake to think that children receive the benefit in baptism , as to the remission of original guilt , or the account of their parents offering them . for many are offered to baptism by strangers , and slaves sometimes by their masters . and when parents are dead , children are offered by such as take pity upon them ; and sometimes children exposed by parents , and sometimes as they are taken up by holy virgins , which neither have children , nor intend to have any . ( . ) that the answers made by the sponsors in baptism in the name of the child are a part of the solemnity of baptism . not as though the child did really believe , yet it is said to believe on the account of the sacrament which supposeth faith . for the sacraments because of the resemblance between them and the things represented by them , do carry the name of the things represented ; as , saith he , the sacrament of christs body after a certain manner is called his body ; and the sacrament of his blood is called his blood , so the sacrament of faith is called faith , i. e. the baptismal covenant supposing believing on one part , the church supplies that part by the sponsors , which cannot be performed by the children . thence he saith , ipsa responsio ad celebrationem pertinet sacramenti , so that then the church looked upon the sponsors answering , as a necessary part of the solemnity of baptism . thence s. augustin elsewhere saith , that the fide-jussores or sureties did in the name of the children renounce the devil and all his pomp and works ; and in another place he declares , that he would not baptize a child without the sponsors answering for the child that he would renounce the devil , and turn to god , and that they believed he was baptized for the remission of sins . ( . ) those who think themselves bound to baptize children only by vertue of the parents right , must run into many perplexing scruples about baptizing children , and be forced to exclude the far greater number of those that are offered . for , ( . ) they are not well agreed , what it is which gives parents a right to have their children baptized ; whether a dogmatical faith be sufficient , or a justifying faith be necessary ? if saving faith be necessary , whether the outward profession of it be sufficient ? whether that ought to be taken for a true profession which is only pretended to be a true sign of the mind , or that only which is really so ? whether profession be required for it self , or as a discovery of something further ? whether seeming seriousness in profession be sufficient , or real serio●sness be required ? what we must judge real seriousness in profession , as distinct from inward sincerity ? what contradiction may be allowed to make a profession not serious ? whether besides a serious profession it be not necessary to be a practical profession ? and what is necessary for the judging a profession to be practical ? whether besides meer practical profession the positive signs of inward grace be not necessary ? and whether besides all these , actual confederation and joyning in church covenant be not necessary ? and if it be , whether the children of confederated parents not being confederated themselves , can convey a right to their children ? about these , and other such like questions , those who go upon the parents right are in perpetual disputes , and can neither give others , nor hardly themselves satisfaction about them . ( . ) the consequence of this is , that they must baptize many with a doubting mind ; and must exclude many more , than they can baptize . for mr. b. saith , if he took a dogmatical faith it self , or any short of justifying for the title and necessary qualifications of them i must admit , i would baptize none , because i cannot know who hath that dogmatical faith , and who not . the like others are as ready to say , of his serious , voluntary , not prevalently contradicted , practical profession ; or at least , that no man can baptize with a good conscience , till he hath upon good evidence throughly weighed the lives of the parents , and is able to pronounce that the actions of their lives do not prevalently contradict their profession . others must reject all those in whose parents they do not see positive signs of grace ; or are not actually confederated with them . and upon all these several bars to the parents right , how few children will be left , that a man can baptize with a safe conscience ? is not this now a more likely way to reduce the far greatest part of christianity to paganism than denying the lawfulness of separation ? thus i have considered this main scruple against the vse of entitling and covenanting godfathers , as mr. b. calls them ; and have shewed how little reason there is to make use of this as so great an objection against our churches , communion . as to kneeling at the communion , i find nothing particularly objected against that deserving consideration , which i have not answered in another place . mr. a. hath one thing yet more to say against the terms of our churches communion , viz. that upon the same reason these are imposed , the church may impose some use of images , circumcision , and the paschal lamb. to which i answer , ( . ) that our question is about separation from the communion of our church on the account of the terms that are imposed ; and is this a reasonable pretence for men not to do what is required , because they do not know what may be required on the same grounds ? a father charges his son to stand with his hat off before him , or else he shall not stay in his house ; at first the son demurrs upon putting off his hat to his father , because he hath some scruples , whether putting off the hat be a lawful ceremony or not ; not meerly on the account of its significancy , but because it seems to him to be giving worship to a creature . this he thinks so weighty a scruple , that he charges his father with tyranny over his conscience for imposing such a condition , on his continuing in his house , and thinks himself sufficiently justified by it in his disobedience and forsaking his fathers house , and drawing away as many of his servants from him , as he can infuse this scruple into . but let us suppose him brought to understand the difference between civil and religious worship , yet he may upon mr. a.'s grounds still justifie his disobedience . for faith he to his father , why do you require me to put off my hat in your presence , and to make this the condition of my staying in your house ? is it not enough that i own my self to be your son , and ask you blessing morning and evening , and am very willing to sit at your table , and depend upon you for my subsistence ? are not these sufficient testimonies that i am your son , but you must expect my obedience in such a trifling ceremony as putting off my hat ? you say , it is a token of respect ; i say for that reason i ought not to do it . for , how do i know when you will have done with your tokens of respect ? it is true , you require no more now , but i consider what you may do , and for all that i know , the next thing you may require me will be to put off my shoos before you , for that is a token of respect in some countries ; next you may require me to kiss your toe , for that is a token of respect used some where ; and who knows what you may come to at last ; and therefore i am resolved to stop at first , and will rather leave your house , than be bound to put off my hat in your presence . let any one judge whether this be a reasonable ground for such an obstinate disobedience to the command of his father . or suppose a law were made to distinguish the several companies in london from each other , that they should have some badge upon their livery gowns , that may represent the trade and company they are of ; would this be thought a just excuse for any mans refusing it , to say , what do i know how far this imposing power may go at last ; it is true , the matter is small at present , but i consider , it is a badge , it is a moral significant ceremony , a dangerous teeming thing , no man knows what it may bring forth at last ; for how can i or any man living tell , but at last i may be required to wear a fools coat . would such an unreasonable jealousie as this justifie such a mans refractoriness , in rather choosing to lose the priviledge of his company , than submitting to wear the badge of it ? so that the fears of what may be required is no ground for actual disobedience to what is required . ( . ) there can be no reasonable suspicion that our church should impose any other ceremonies , than what it hath already done , supposing that it might do it , on the same ground : because the church hath rather retrench●d than increased ceremonies ; as will appear to any one that compares the first and second liturgies of edw. . and since that time no one new ceremony hath been required , as a condition of commmunion . but besides , our church gives a particular reason against the multiplying of ceremonies : because the very number of them , supposing them lawful is a burden ; of which s. augustin complained in his time , and others had much more cause since ; and therefore for that cause many were taken away , and withall , it is declared that christs gospel was not to be a ceremonial law. so that for these reasons there can be no just fears that our church should contradict her own doctrine , which it must do , if it increased our cermonies , so as to make a new argument against them , from the number of them . ( . ) there is not the same reason for introducing the things mentioned by mr. a. as for the ceremonies in vse among us . for , ( . ) as to the vse of images , our church hath fully declared against any religious vse of them , in the homilies about the peril of idolatry ; and that from such reasons , as cannot extend to our ceremonies : viz. from the express law of god , and the general sense of the primitive church ; which allowed and practised the sign of the cross , at the same time when it disputed most vehemently against images . ( . ) for circumcision , which he tells us , may be used as signifying the circumcision of the heart . he knows very well that our church joins significancy and decency together in the matter of ceremonies ; and no man can imagine that such a kind of significancy as that he mentions , should be sufficient to introduce such a practice which is so repugnant to decency among us . besides that s. paul makes it so great a badge of the obligation to the law , that he saith , if ye be circumcised , christ profiteth you nothing : which was never said of any of our ceremonies . and whereas he saith , it is observed in abassia as a mystical ceremony ; he is much mistaken , if their emperour claudius say true ; for he saith , it is only a national custom without any respect to religion , like the cutting of the face in some parts of aethiopia and nubia , and boreing the ear among the indians . and ludolphus proves it to be no other , because it is done by a woman in private , without any witnesses . ( . ) as to his paschal lamb in memory of christ our passeover that is sacrificed for us ; we owe greater reverence to gods own institutions that were intended to typifie christ to come , than to presume to turn them quite another way to represent what is past . especially since christ is become the great sacrifice for the sins of mankind . and he might as well have mentioned the scape-goat and the red heifer as the paschal lamb ; since they were all types of the great sacrifice of propitiation . but why are things never used by the primitive church ( for as to his story of innocent . be it true or false , it is nothing to us ) brought to parallel our ceremonies , when the great reason of our churches retaining any ceremonies was declared from the beginning of the reformation to be out of reverence to the ancient church , which observed the same kind of ceremonies ? the only remaining pretence for the present separation , is , that there is a parity of reason , as to their separating from us , and our separating from the church of rome . for so mr. a. urgeth the argument , we separate from them because they impose doubtful things for certain , false for true , new for old , absurd for reasonable ; then this will hold for themselves because they think so ; and that was all i opposed to t. g. but is it possible for any man that pretends to be a protestant divine to think the case alike ? when ( . ) they confess our doctrine in the articles to be true , we reject all their additional articles , in pius . his creed , not only as false , but some of them as absurd and unreasonable , as men can invent , viz. that of transubstantiation ; which is made by them the great trying and burning point . but what is there , which the most inveterate enemies of our church can charge in her doctrine , as new , as false , as absurd ? nay , they all yield to the antiquity , to the truth , to the reasonableness of our doctrine ; and yet is not mr. a. ashamed to make the case seem parallel . but what new and strong reason doth he bring for it ? you may be sure it is some mighty thing ; for , he saith , presently after it , that my importunity hath drawn them out of their reservedness , and they have hitherto been modest to their prejudice . alas for him , that his modesty should ever hurt him ! but what is this dangerous secret , that they have hitherto kept in , out of meer veneration to the church of england ? let us prepare our selves for this unusual , this killing charge . why , saith mr. a. in the catechism of the church , this doctrine is contained ( it is matter of doctrine then , i see ; although we are confessed to be agreed in the articles , as far as they concern ▪ doctrine . but what is this notorious doctrine ? ) it is , saith he , that infants perform faith and repentance by their sureties . did i not fear , it was some dreadful thing ; some notorious heresie , condemned by one or two at least of the four general councils ? but is it said so , in plain words ? or is it wire-drawn by far-fetched consequences ? no , it is plain enough ; for the question is , what is required of persons to be baptized . answ. repentance whereby they forsake sin ; and faith , whereby they stedfastly believe the promises of god made to them in that sacrament . quest. why then are infants baptized , when by reason of their tender age , they cannot perform them ? answ. because they promise them both by their sureties ; which promise when they come to age themselves are bound to perform . but i pray doth it hence follow , that infants do perform faith and repentance by their sureties ? are not the words express , that they promise both by their sureties ? and is promising and performance all one ? i do not find it so by this instance . for here was a great matter promised , and nothing performed . it is true the catechism saith , faith and repentance are required of them that are to be baptized : which supposeth the persons to be baptized capable of performing these things themselves . and then comes a question , by way of objection ; why then are infants baptized , &c. to which the sense of the answer is , that although by reason of their age they are uncapable of performing the acts of repentance and believing ; yet the church doth allow sureties to enter into covenant for them ; which doth imply a promise on their parts for the children , and an obligation lying on them to perform what was then promised . and now let the reader judge , since this horrible secret is come out , whether this ought to be ranked in an equal degree as to the justifying separation with the monstrous , absurd and unreasonable doctrines of the roman church . and i know nothing can do them greater service , than such parallels as these . ( . ) we charge them with those reasons for separation , which the scripture allows ; such as idolatry , perverting the gospel and institutions of christ , and tyranny over the consciences of men , in making those things necessary to salvation , which christ never made so : but not one of these , can with any appearance of reason be charged on the church of england , since we profess to give religious worship only to god ; we worship no images ; we invocate no sains ; we adore no host ; we creep to no crucifix ; we kiss no relicks . we equal no traditions with the gospel ; we lock it not up from the people in an unknown language ; we preach no other terms of salvation than christ and his apostles did ; we set up no monarchy in the church to undermine christs , and to dispence with his laws and institutions . we mangle no sacraments , nor pretend to know what makes more for the honour of his blood than he did himself . we pretend to no skill in expiating mens sins when they are dead ; nor in turning the bottomless pit into the pains of purgatory by a charm of words and a quick motion of the hand . we do not cheat mens souls with false bills of exchange , called indulgences ; nor give out that we have the treasure of the church in our keeping , which we can apply as we see occasion . we use no pious frauds to delude the people , nor pretend to be infallible , as they do when they have a mind to deceive . these are things which the divines of our church have with great clearness and strength of reason made good against the church of rome ; and since they cannot be objected against our church , with what face , can men suppose the cases of those who separate from each of them to be parallel ? ( . ) as to the ceremonies in the roman church and ours , there are these considerable differences , ( . ) they have a mighty number , as appears by their rituals and ceremonials , and the great volums , written in explication of them ; we , very few , and those so very easie and plain ; that it requires as great skill not to understand ours , as it doth to understand theirs . ( . ) they place great holiness in theirs , as appears by the forms of consecration of their water , oyle , salt , wax , vestments , &c. but we allow none of these , but only the use of certain ceremonies , without any preceding act of the church importing any peculiar holiness attributed to them . ( . ) they suppose great vertue and efficacy to be in them , for the purging away some sorts of sins ; we utterly deny any such thing to belong to our ceremonies , but declare , that they are appointed only for order and deceny . ( . ) they make their ceremonies being appointed by the church to become necessary parts of divine worship ; as i have already proved ; but our church looks upon them , even when determined as things in their own nature indifferent , but only required by vertue of that general obedience which we owe to lawful authority . so that as to ceremonies themselves there is a vast disparity between the roman church and ours ; and no man can pretend otherwise , that is not either grosly ignorant , or doth not wilfully misunderstand the state of the controversie between them and us . thus i have gone through all the pleas for the present separation i could meet with , in the books of my answerers : and i have not concealed the force or strength i saw in any of them . and however mr. a. reproaches me with having a notable talent of misrepresenting my adversaries , ( a thing which i have alwayes abhorred , and never did it wilfully in my life , it appearing to me an act of injustice as well as disingenuity ) yet i do assure him , i have endeavoured to understand them truly , and to represent them fairly , and to judge impartially . and although i make no such appeals to the day of iudgement as others do ; yet i cannot but declare to the world , as one that believes a day of judgement to come , that upon the most diligent search , and careful inquiry i could make into this matter , i cannot find any plea sufficient to justifie in point of conscience , the present separation from the church of england . monseigneur , deux voyages que j'ay été obligè de faire , m'ont empéché de répondre aussi tost que je l'aurois souhaitè a la lettre dont vôtre grandeur m'a fait la grace de m'honorer . comme j'étois sur le point de vous en faire des excuses , monsieur de l' angle est arrivè en ceste ville , quime les a fait encor differer , dans l'esperance , qu' il voudroit bien se charger de ma reponse , & qu' elle pourroit par ce moien vous étre plus fidellement rendue . il est vray , monsieur , que si j'en croyois mon déplaisir , je la remettrois encor a une autre fois ; car je ne peux vous ecrire sans un extreme douleur , quand je songe a la matiere surla quelle vous me commandés de vous dire mon sentiment . ie croy que vous le sçavés dejá bien , et que vous ne me faites pas l'honneur de me le demander comme en ayant quelque sorte de doute ; vous me faites plus de justice que cela ; & vous ne me comprenéz pas au nombre de ceux , qui ont touchant l ' eglise d' angleterre une si mechante opinion . pour moy , je n'en avois pas une si mechante d'aucun veritable anglois , & je ne pouvois pas me persuader qu' il y en eut un seul , qui crût qu'on ne peut éstre dans sa communion sans hasarder son propre salut . pour ceux qui sont engagés dans le parti de l' eglise romaine , j'en jugeois tout autrement . ils ont des maximes particuliers , & agissent par d'autres interests . mais pour ceux qui n'ont aucune liaison avec rome , c'est une chose bien singuliere de les voir passer jusqu ' a cette extremitè que de croire que dans l' eglise anglicane on ne peut faire son salut . c'est n'avoir gueres de conoissance de la confession defoy , que tout le monde protestant a si hautement approuveé , & qui merite en effect les louanges de tout ce qu'il y a de bons chrestiens . car on ne pouvoit rien faire de plus sage que cette confession , & jamais les articles de foy n'ont eté recueillis avec un discernment plus juste , & plus raisonnable que dans cette excellent● piece . on a raison de la garder avec tant de veneration dans la bibliotheque d' oxford , & le grand iuellus pour l'avoir si dignement defendüe , est digne d'une louange immortelle . c'est d'elle dont dieu se servit dans le commencement de la reformation d' angleterre , & si elle n'avoit pas été comme son ouvrage , il ne l'auroit pas benit d'une façon si avantageuse . le succes qu' elle out , devroit fermer la bouche a ceux qui sont les plus animés , & l'avoir veue trionpher de tant d' obstacles devroit faire reconnoitre a tout le monde , que dieu s'est declarè en sa faveur , qu'il est visiblement mélé de son établissement , & qu'elle a la verité & la fermeté de sa parole , a qui elle doibt en effect sa naissance , & son origine . elle est aujourdhuy ce qu'elle ètoit quand elle ●toit formeé , & on ne peut pas reprocher a messieurs les evéques qu'ils y ayent depuis cette terme lá , apporté quelque changement . et comment donc s'imaginer qu'elle ayt changé d'usage ? & peut on rien voir de plus inique , que de dire , qu'un instrument que dieu employa autrefois pour l'instruction de tant de gens de bien , pour le salut de de tant de peuples , pour la consolation tant de fidelles soit aujourdhuy devenüe quelque chose de funeste , & pernicieuse . si votre confession de foy est pure , & innocente , votre service divin l'est aussi car on n'y voit rien de tout qui tende a l'idolatrie ; vous n'adorés que dieu seul ; dans vôtre culte il n'y a rien qui se termine a la creature , & si l'on y trouve quelques ceremonies qui ne se rencontrent pas ailleurs , c'est faire profession d'une terrible theologie , avoir depouillé toute charité , ne sçavoir guere ce que valent les ames , ne conoitre point la nature de choses indifferentes , que decroire qu'elles sont capables de perdre eternellement ceux qui s'y veulent assujettir . c'est avoir une méme dureté que de croire que vôtre discipline ecclesiastique est capable de damner les hommes . car ou a t'on jamais vú que pour des articles de discipline le salut des hommes se trouve interessé , & de choses qui ne regardent que le dehors , & l'ordre de l' eglise , et qui ne sont que comme l'ecorce , & les envelopes de la veritè , peuvent elles causer la mort , & glisser du poison dans une ame ? certes on ne les comprend jamais au nombre de verités essentielles , & comme il n'y a que celles cy qui sauvent , il n'y a qu'elles aussi qui peuvent exclurre du salut . pour le gouvernement episcopal , qu'a t'il qui soit dangereux , & qui puisse raisonnablement alarmer des consciences ? & s'il est capable de priver de la gloire eternelle , & de boucher les avenües du ciel , qui estce qui y est entré l'espace de plus de quinze cents ans ? puisque pendant tout ce temps lá , toutes les eglises du monde n'ont point eu d'autre gouvernement . s'il étoit contraire a la verité & a l'aquisition du bonheur eternel , est il croyable que dieu l'eut si hautement approuvé , & qu'il eut permis que pendant tant de siecles son eglise en eust été tyrannisé ? car qui estce qui l'a gouverné , qui estce qui a composé ses conciles tant generaux que particuliers , qui estce qui a combatu les heresies dont elle a esté de tout temps attaqué ? on t ce pas été les evéques , & n' estce pas a leur sage conduite , que la parcle de dieu est redevable , apres dieu , de ses victoires & de ses triomphes . et sans remonter jusq ' au berceau , & la naissan ce de l' eglise , qui estce qui dans le siecle precedant delivra l' angleterre , de l' erreur dont elle étoit envelopée ? qui estce qui y fit resveiller si miraculeusement la verité ? fut ce pas le zele , & la fermeté des evéques , leur ministere ? degagea t'il pas les anglois de l'oppression sous laquelle ils gemissoient de puis si long temps ; & leur exemple aida't y pas puissamment a la reformation de toute l' europe ? en verité je croy qu'ils en pouvroient vser comme fift autre fois gregoire de nazianze au milieu de constantinople . quand il y arriva , il trouva que l' arrianismey avoit fait de fort grand progres , cependant , son courage , son zele , son sçavoir affoblioent si fort le parti des heretiques , qu'en peu de temps la verité y apparut plus belle que jamais , & il voulut que le temple ou il l'avoit si fortement appuiée portoit le nom d' anastasie , parce qu'il l'y avoit comme deterrée , & degagée de dessous l'erreur , & par ses soins continuels , il y avoit comme fait sortir du tombeau , & glorieusement resusciteé , c'est ce qu'ont fait aussi les evesques d' angleterre . ils voyoient non une verité seulement , mais quasi toutes les verités fondamentales ensevelies sous un nombre espouvantables d' erreurs . ils voyoient le joug de rome plus pesant au milieu d'eux qu'il n'étoit nulle part ailleurs . la difficulté qu'il y avoit a reüssir dans la reformation étoit capable de décourager des personnes d'une capacité , & d'un zele mediocre , & neantmoins rien ne les detourne d'un si gene reux dessein . les ennemis de dehors , ceux de dedans , tous terribles qu'ils parussent , ne les intimident point ; ils entreprenent ce grand ouvrage , et ne l'abandonnent point qu'ils n'en soient venus au bout , & qu'ils n'ayent remis sur le throne la verité resuscitée . en sorte qu'ils pouuoient lusser par tout des monuments de ce miracle & nommer justement toutes leur eglises du nom d' anastasie & de resurrection . mais si ce tiltre manque a leur temples , la chose en soy leur convient , & l'on n'entend ressonner au milieu d'eux que les lessons , & les louanges de la pure verité . ce que doit obliger tous les gens de bien à ne s'en ecarter pas , & a regarder l' eglise anglicane comme une eglise tres orthodoxe . c'est ce qui font les protestants de france , ceux de geneva , ceux de suisse , & d' allemagne , & ceux d' hollande aussi . car ils se firent un fort grand honneur , d'avoir dans leur concile de dordrecht des theologiens d' angleterre , & monstrerent bien qu'ils avoient pour l' eglise anglicane une profonde veneration . et d'oú vient donc , que des anglois mémes en ont aujourdhuy si mechante opinion , & rompre si temerairement comme ils font , avec elle ? estce pas rompre avec toute l' eglise ancienne , avec toutes les eglises orientales , avec toutes les eglises protestantes qui ont toujours fort consideré la pureté de celle d' angleterre ? estce pas une horrible dureté que de l'excommunier sans misericorde , & s'en faire etrangement a croire que de s'imaginer qu'ils soient le seuls en angleterre & méme au milieu de tout le monde chrestien , qui soient destinés au bonheur eternel & a soustenir , comme il faut , le verites necessaires au salut . certes on pourroit faire un parallele fort odieux entre ces docteurs , & le pape victor , qui volut excommunier les eglises d' asie par ce qu'elles ne celebroient le feste de pasque au méme jour que rome le faisoit ; entre eux & les audiens , qui rompoient avec les chrestiens , & ne vouloient point souffrir d' evéques riches . entre eux & le donatistes , qui ne vouloient point de communion avec ceux qui avoient esté ordines par des evéques laches , & qui s'imaginoient que leur societé étoit la veritable eglise , & l'épouse bien aimée qui paissoit son troupeau vers le midi . entre eux & ceux de la communion romaine , qui ont si bonne opinion de leur eglise , que hors d'elle ils ne s'imaginent pas qu'un puisse jamais acquerir le salut . pour moy quelque enclin que je sois a la tolerance , je ne pourois pourtant me persuader qu'il en faille avoir pour ceux qui en ont si peu pour les autres , & que s'ils étoient les maitres feroient assurement un mauvais quartiér a ceux qui dependroient d'eux . ie regarde ces gens lá , comme de perturbateurs de l'estat , & de l'eglise , & qui sont infalliblement animés d'un esprit de sedition . i'ay méme de la paine a croire qu'ils soient justement ce qu'ils disent estre , & je craindrois bien que sous ces docteurs il n'y eust des ennemis tres dangereux qui fussent cachés . des societés composées detelles personnes seroient extrement perilleuses , & on ne les pourroit soufrir sans ouvrir la porte au disordre , & travailler asa propre ruine . ily en a de composées de personnes plus raisonnables . mais j'y voudrois qu'elles le fussent assez , pour ne se point separer de celles qui composent l' eglise anglicane ; particulierement au terme ou nous sommes elles devroient tout faire pour une bonne reconciliation ; & dans le conjuncture des affaires presentes ils devroient bien s'aperçevoir qu'il n'y a qu'une bonne reunion qui puisse prevenir les maux dont l'angleterre est menacée . car pour dire la verité , je ne voi pas que leue meetings soient de fort grande utilité , & qu'on puisse s'y consoler davantage , que dans les eglises episcopales . quand j'estois a londres , il y a bien tost cinq ans , je me trouvay en plusieurs assemblées particulieres pour voir comme on l'y prenoit pour l'instruction du peuple , & la predication de la parole de dieu . mais j'avoue que je ●'en receus aucune edification . i'entendis un de plus fameux non-conformistes . il pre-choit en vn lieu ou il y avoit trois hommes & soissante , ou quatre vingt ●emmes . il avoit choisi un texte touchant le restablissement des ruines de ierusalem , & pour l'expliquer il cita cent fois plinie & vitruve , & n'oublia pas de dire en italien ce proverbe , duro con duro non fa muro . tout cela me parut hors de propos , fort peu a propos pour des femmelettes , & tres eloigné d'un esprit qui ne cherche que la consolation & l'edification de ses auditeurs . se cantonner & faire un schisme pour avoir la liberté de debiter de telles vanit●s est une fort m●●vaise conduite ; & les peuples paroissent bien ●●ibles de quitter leur mutuelles assemblées pour de choses qui m●ritent ●i peu leur estime , & leur preference . ie n'estime pas , qu'on soit en obligation de souffrir ce dereglement . il est vray qu'autrefois on souffroit les assemblées de novatiens á rome & à constantinople , & que le donatistes a voient en la premiere place quelque sorte de liberté . mais c'estoit les estrangers , & cela méme ne dura pas long temps & comme il'y en avoit peu , cela ne tiroit pas en consequence . mais c'est un autre fait en angleterre , & comme le bien de l' estat , & de l' eglise depend absolument de l'union du peuple sur le poinct de la religion , on n'y pourroit trop presser une union universelle . mais il la faut procurer par les bonnes voyes , & comme messieurs les evéques sont de personnes d'une grande experience , d'un scavoir extraordinaire , d'un zele , & d'une bonté , envers leur peuples veritablement paternelle , j'espere qu'ils s'employeront a c●grand o●rage avec toute la prudence & la charitè qui s●nt necess●ires pour faire reüssir une si louable entreprise . t'ous particulierement , monseigneur , dont la moderation & la capacité sont reconnües de tout le m●nde , il semble que 〈◊〉 soit un dessein reservé pour votre grande sag●sse , & 〈◊〉 vous n'y reuscistes pas , apparemment que tous les autres ' y travailleront inutilement . pour mor , je re 〈◊〉 ●●●tribuer d'icy que de vo●us , & que de pr●res ; 〈◊〉 bien protester que j'en fais tous les jours de f●●r sinceres pour la prosperité de 〈…〉 qu'il plaise a dieu faire en sorte , que tous les protestants d'angleterre ne soyent a l'avenir qu'un coeur , & qu'une ame. ie prie vostre grandeur d'en estre bien persuadé , & de croire qu'il n'est pas possible d'estre avec plus de respect que je le suis , a leyden septemb . . monseigneur , votre tres humble & tres obeissant serviteur , le moyne . first letter . a letter from monsieur le moyne , professor of divinity at leyden , to my lord bishop of london , concerning the nature of our present differences , and the unlawfulness of separation from the church of england . my lord , two journeys that i have been obliged to take , have hindered me from answering the letter , with which your lordship did me the favour to honour me , so soon as i could have wished . just as i was about to excuse my self to you for it , monsieur de l' angle came to this town , which made me defer it longer yet , in hopes that he would charge himself with my answer , and that by that means it might be brought unto you more safely . it is true , my lord , that if i should hearken to my own unwillingness , i should put it off still to another time ; for i cannot write unto you without being extreamly grieved , when i think upon the matter , of which you command me to tell you my opinion . i believe that you know it already , and that you do not do me the honour to ask it of me , as if you had any kind of doubt of it . you do me more right than so ; and you do not account me of the number of those that have so ill an opinion of the church of england . for my part i had not so bad a one of any true english-man , and i could not have perswaded my self that there had been so much as one , which had believed that a man could not be of her communion , without hazarding his own salvation . for those that are engaged in the party of the church of rome , i judged quite otherwise of them ; they have particular maxims , and act by other interests . but for those that have no tye to rome , it is a very strange thing to see them come to that extream , as to believe that a man cannot be saved in the church of england . this is not to have much knowledge of that confession of faith , which all the protestant world has so highly approved , and which does really deserve the praises of all good christians that are . for there cannot be any thing made more wise than that confession , and the articles of faith were never collected with a more just and reasonable discretion than in that excellent piece . there is great reason to keep it with so much veneration in the library of oxford ; and the great iewell deserves immortal praise for having so worthily defended it . it was this that god made use of in the beginning of the reformation of england . and if it had not been as it were his work , he had never blessed it in so advantageous a manner . the success that it has had , ought to stop the mouth of those that are the most passionate , and it 's having triumphed over so many obstacles , should make all the world acknowledge , that god has declared himself in favour of it , and that he has been visibly concerned in its establishment ; and that it has the truth and confirmation of his word , to which in effect it owes its birth and original . it is the same at present as it was when it was made , and no one can reproach the bishops for having made any change in it since that time . and how then can it be imagined , that it has changed its use ? and can there be any thing more unjust , than to say , that an instrument which god has heretofore employed for the instruction of so many people , for the consolation of so many good men , for the salvation of so many believers , is now become a destructive and pernicious thing ? if your confession of faith be pure and innocent , your divine service is so too : for no one can discover any thing at all in it that tends to idolatry : you adore nothing but god alone ; in your worship there is nothing that is terminated on the creature : and if there be some ceremonies there , which one shall not meet with in some other places ; this were to make profession of a terrible kind of divinity , to put off all charity , not to know much what souls are worth ; not to understand the nature of things indifferent , to believe that they are able to destroy those eternally , that are willing to submit themselves unto them . it is to have the same hardness to believe that your ecclesiastical discipline can damn any . for where has it been ever seen , that the salvation of men was concerned for articles of discipline , and things that regard but the out-side , and order of the church , and are but as it were the bark and covering of the truth ? can these things cause death , and distill poyson into a soul ? truly these are never accounted in the number of essential truths ; and as there is nothing but these that can save , so there is nothing but these that can exclude men from salvation . for the episcopal government , what is there in it that is dangerous , and may reasonably alarm mens consciences ? and if this be capable of depriving us of eternal glory , and shutting the gates of heaven , who was there that entered there for the space of fifteen hundred years , since that for all that time all the churches of the world had no other kind of government ? if it were contrary to the truth , and the attainment of eternal happiness , is it credible that god had so highly approved it , and permitted his church to be tyrannized over by it for so many ages ? for who was it that did govern it ? who was it that did make up its councils , as well general , as particular ? who was it that combated the heresies with which it has been at all times assaulted ? was it not the bishops ? and is it not to their wise conduct , to which next under god , his word is beholden for its victories and triumphs ? and not to go back so far as the birth and infancy of the church ; who was it that in the last age delivered england from the error in which she was inveloped ? who was it that made the truth to rise so miraculously there again ? was it not the zeal and constancy of the bishops , and their ministry that disengaged the english from that oppression under which they had groaned so long ? and did not their example powerfully help forward the reformation of all europe ? in truth i think they might make the same use of this , as gregory nazianzen did heretofore at constantinople . when he arrived there he found that arrianism had made a very great progress in that place ; but then his courage , his zeal , his learning did so mightily weaken the party of the hereticks that in a little time the truth appeared there again more beautiful than ever ; and the church where he had so stoutly upheld it , he would have to bear the name of anastasia ; because he had brought the truth as it were out of the earth , and cleared it from the error that lay upon it , and by his continual cares had caused it , as it were , to come out of the grave to a glorious resurrection . it is this too that the bishops of england have done ; they saw not only one truth , but almost all the fundamental truths buried under a formidable number of errors ; they saw the yoke of rome heavier among them , than it was any where else : the difficulty that there was of succeeding in the reformation , was enough to discourage persons of an ordinary capacity and zeal . nevertheless nothing turns them from so generous a design ; the enemies without , and those within as terrible as they seem , do not fright them ; they undertake this great work , and do not leave it till they had brought it about , and raised up the truth , and placed it again upon the throne , in such a manner that they might every where have monuments of this miracle , and justly have called all their churches by the name of anastasia or resurrection . but if their churches have not that title , the thing it self belongs unto them ; and you shall hear nothing discoursed of in these , but lectures and praises of the pure truth . which ought to oblige all good men not to separate from it ; but to look upon the church of england , as a very orthodox church . thus all the protestants of france do , those of geneva , those of switzerland and german , and those of holland too ; for they did themselves a very great honour in having some divines of england in their synod of dort , and shewed plainly that they had a profound veneration for the church of england . and from whence does it then come , that some englishmen themselves have so ill an opinion of her at present , and divide rashly from her , as they do ? is not this to divide from all the antient churches , from all the churches of the east , from all the protestant churches , which have alwayes had a very great respect for the purity of that of england ? is it not horrible impudence to excommunicate her without mercy , and to make themselves believe strangely of her , for them to imagine that they are the only men in england , nay , in the christian world , that are predestinated to eternal happiness , and to hold the truths necessary to salvation , as they ought to be held ? indeed one might make a very odious parallel betwixt these teachers and pope victor , that would needs excommunicate the churches of asia , because they did not celebrate the feast of easter the same day they did at rome . betwixt them and the audeans that divided from the christians , and would not endure rich bishops . betwixt them and the donatists , that would have no communion with them that had been ordained by lapsed bishops , and imagined that their society was the true church , and the well beloved spouse , that fed her flock in the south . betwixt them and those of the roman communion , who have so good an opinion of their own church , that out of her they do not imagine that any one can ever be saved . for my part , as much inclined to toleration as i am , i cannot for all this perswade my self , that it ought to be allowed to those that have so little of it for other men ; and who , if they were masters , would certainly give but bad quarter to those that depended upon them . i look upon these men as disturbers of the state and church , and who are doubtlesly animated by a spirit of sedition . nay , i can scarce believe , that they are just such as they say they are ; and i should be something afraid , that very dangerous enemies might be hid under colour of these teachers . societies composed of such persons , would be extream dangerous ; and they could not be suffered without opening the gate to disorder , and advancing towards ones own ruine . there are some of these that are composed of more reasonable men , but i could wish they were reasonable enough not to separate from those of which the church of england is composed . especially in the case we are in , they should do all for a good agreement ; and in the present conjuncture of affairs , they should understand that there is nothing but a good re-union , that can prevent the evils with which england is threatned . for to speak the truth , i do not see that their meetings are of any great use , or that one may be more comforted there , than in the episcopal churches . when i was at london almost five years ago , i went to several of their private assemblies , to see what way they took for the instruction of the people , and the preaching of the word of god. but i profess i was not at all edified by it . i heard one of the most famous non-conformists , he preached in a place where there were three men and three or fourscore women : he had chosen a text about the building up the ruines of ierusalem , and for the explication of it , he cited pliny and vitruvius a hundred times , and did not forget to mention a proverb in italian , duro con duro non fa muro . all this seem'd to me nothing to the purpose , and very improper for the poor women , and very far from a spirit that sought nothing but the comfort and edification of his hearers . to cantonize themselves , and make a schism , to have the liberty to vent such vanities , is very ill conduct , and the people seem very weak to quit their mutual assemblies for things that so little deserve their esteem and preference . i do not think that any one is obliged to suffer this irregularity . it is true , that the assemblies of the novatians were sometimes suffered at rome and constantinople , and that even the donatists had some kind of liberty in the first of these places . but they were only strangers ; and that neither did not indure any long time ; and as there were but few of them , that is not to be drawn into example . but it is another case in england ; and seeing the good of the state and church depends absolutely upon the union of the people in the point of religion , one cannot there press an universal union too much . but it ought to be procured by good means ; and since the bishops are persons of great experience , of an extraordinary knowledge , of a true fatherly zeal and goodness towards their people , i hope that they will employ themselves in this great work with all the prudence and charity that are necessary to the succeeding of such a commendable undertaking . you particularly , my lord , whose moderation and capacity are acknowledged by all the world ; it looks as if it were a design reserved for your great wisdom ; and if you do not succeed , it is clear , that all others will labour in it but in vain . for my part , i can contribute nothing to it where i am , but vowes and prayers ; and of these i can protest that i make very sincere ones every day for the prosperity of the english church ; and that it would please god to order things in such manner , that all the protestants of england for the future , might be of one heart and of one soul. i beg your lordship to be well assured of this and to believe that it is impossible to be with more respect than i am , leyden sept. . . my lord , your most humble and most obedient servant , le moyne . a paris l' . d'octob . monseigneur , rien ne vous a deu paroistre si estrange ny si incivil que mon silence sur la lettre que vous me fîstes l'honneur de m'escrire il y a environ trois mois ; il est pourtant vray que je n'ay rien a me reprocher sur cela , & a fin que vous le croyiez comme moy , vous voulez bien me permettre de vous dire comment la chose s'est passée . quand on m'apporta vostre lettre , j'estois retombé dans une grande & violente fiebvre dont dieu m'a affligé durant quatre ou cinq mois , & qui m'a mené jusqu'a deux doits de la mort . ie priay un de mes amis , qui estoit alors dans ma chambre , de l'ouvrir & de me dire le nom de celuy qui me l'escrivoit , mais il se trouva que vous aviez oublié de la signer , sur quoy je me l'a fis apporter , pour voir si je n'en connoistrois point le caractére ; et ce fut encore inutilement , par ce que jusqu'alors je n' avois rien veu de vostre main : cela me fit croire qu'elle avoit esté escrite par celuy lá mesme qui l'avoit apportée , pour m'attrapper dix ou douze sous de port ; car ce petit stratageme est assez commun en cette ville & aprez cela , je ne me mis pas fort en peine de ce qu'elle deviendroit . elle se conserva pourtant dans mon cabinet par le plus grand hazard du monde , & m'estant heureusement tombée sous la main , il y a deux ou trois jours , je la relus ; & l'aiant trouvée trop sage & trop grave pour avoir esté escrite par un homme tel que je me l'estois imaginé , je la monstray à monsieur claude qui y reconnut d'abord vostre escriture , & qui me dit que vous en estiez l'auteur . ie pense monseigneur que cela suffit pour me justifier auprez de vous d'un silence , qui bien que je n'en sois aucunement coupable , ne laisse pas de me donner quelque espece de confusion . mais pour venir au contenu de vostre lettre , je ne vous puis exprimer avec quelle douleur j'apprens que vos divisions continuent , en un temps auquel il y a des raisons si pressantes de se réünir ; ce que vous me dites sur tout des escrits que l'on publie a cette heure , pour faire croire que la communion avec l' eglise anglicane est illégitime , & que les ministres ne la peuvent permettre aux particuliers sans crime , me paroist une chose si deraisonnable en elle mesme , & si fort à contre-temps , que j'aurois peine a la croire si elle ne m'estoit attestée par une personne de vostre mérite & de vostre poids . vous savez bien monseigneur quels sont & quels on t toujours esté mes sentimens sur cela , & la maniére dont j'en uzay il y a deux ans dans mon voiage d' angleterre , en fréquentant vos assemblées , & en preschant mesme dans un troupeau qui est sous la iurisdiction de l' eglise anglicane , monstre assez que je suis bien éloigné de croire que sa communion soit illégitime ; et cela mesme prouve d'une maniére bien évidente , que mon sentiment a cet égard est celuy de nos eglises , parce qu'il n'est pas imaginable que j'eusse voulu faire , sans nécessité , une chose qui m'eust attiré l'indignation de mes fréres , & qui , a mon retour , m'eust expose à leurs reproches ou a leurs censures . pleust a dieu , monseigneur , que tout ce qu'il y a de chrestiens égarez dans le monde voulussent recevoir vostre réformation , que je répandrois de bon coeur tout ce que j'ay de sang pour leur procurer un si grand bien . et que je suis asseuré de la joye extresme avec laquelle nos eglises entreroient dans leur communion , si en estant dans la pureté de vos sentimens pour les dogmes , ils ne differoient plus d'avec nous que par des surplis , par des cérémonies innocentes , & par quelque diversité d' ordres dans le gouvernement de l' eglise . et cela monseigneur vous fait assez comprendre , ce que j'ay a respondre a vostre seconde question . car puis que l' eglise anglicane est une véritable eglise de nostre seigneur , puis que son culte & ses dogmes sont purs , & n'ont rien de contraire a lu parole de dieu , et puis que quand la reformation y a esté receüe , elle y a esté receüe avec l'episcopat . et en y establissant la liturgie & les cérémonies qui y sont aujourdhuy en uzage , il est sans doute du devoir de tous les réformez de vostre royaume de se tenir inséparablement unis a cette eglise ; et ceux qui ne le font pas , sous ombre qu'ils desireroient , plus de simplicité dans les cérémonies , & moins d'inegálité entre les ministres commettent asseurément un tres grand péché . car le schisme est le plus redoutable mal qui puisse arriver à l' eglise ; et pour l'éviter la charité chrestienne oblige tous les gens de bien a supporter en leurs fréres des choses bien moins supportables que ne le doivent paroistre celles dont il s'agit , aux yeux de ceux lá mesmes qui les ont le plus en aversion : et c'estoit lá si bien le sentiment de nostre grand & excellent calvin que dans son traitté de la necessité de la réformation il ne fait point de difficulté de dire , que s'il se trouvoit des gens assez deraisonnables pour refuser la communion d'une eglise pure dans son culte & dans ses dogmes , & pour ne pas se soumettré avec respect a son gouvernement , sous ombre qu'elle auroit retenu l' episcopat conditionné comme le vostre , il n'y auroit point de censure ny de rigueur de discipline qu'on ne deust exercer contre eux . * talem nobis hierarchiam si exhibeant , in qua sic emineant episcopi ut christo subesse non recusent , ut ab illo tanquam ab unico capite pendeant & ad ipsum referantur , in qua sic inter se fraternam societatem colant ut non alio modo quam ejus veritate sint colligati , tum vero nullo non anathemate dignos fatear , si qui erunt qui non eam revereantur , summaque obedientia observent . et beze mesme , qui n'approuvoit pas en général le gouvernement episcopal , fait une telle distinction du vostre , et est si éloigne de croire que l'on puisse , ou que l'on doive en prendre sujet de se séparer de vostre eglise , qu'il prie dieu ardenment qu'elle puisse toujours de meurer dans l'heureux estate ou elle avoit esté mise et conservée , par le sang , par la pureté de la foy , et par la sage conduite de ses excellens evesques . * quod si nunc anglicana ecclesia instaurata suorum episcoporum & archiepiscoporum authoritate persistat , quemadmodum hoc nostra memoria contigit , ut ejus ordinis homines non tantum insignes dei martyres , sed etiam praestantissimos pastores & doctores habuerit , fruatur sane ista singulari dei beneficentia , quae utinam illi sit perpetua . mais , monseigneur , quoy que les premiers auteurs de la séparation qui vous trouble soient extraordinairement coupables , et que ceux qui la continuent et qui la fortifient par leurs escrits dé raisonnables et emportez le soient aussy extrém●ment , est neanmoins certain que dans la multitude qui les suit , il y a une infinité de bonnes gens dont la foy est pure et la pieté sincére ; et qui ne demeurent cloignez de vous que parce que leur simplicité est surprise , et qu'on les a effrayez par ces grands mots de tyrannie , d' oppression , de supposts de l' antechrist dont on leur bat perpetuellement les oreilles : ie les mets au rang de ces foibles qui disoient qu'ils n'estoient point du corps et dont st. paul dit qu'ils estoient du corps pourtant ; et il me semble que les bons et charitables evesques comme vous , en doivent dire , quoy qu'en un sens un peu différent , ce qu' optat de miléve disoit des donatistes de son temps , si collegium episcopale nolunt nobiscum habere , tamen fratres sunt : au nom de dieu donc monseigneur faites tout ce qui vous sera possible pour les ramencr a leur devoir par la douceur et par la charité qui seule est capable d' opérer de grandes choses en ces occasions . car les hommes qui ont toujeurs de l'orgueil , se soulevent ordinairement contre tout ce qui leur paroist n'agir que par la seule authorité , mais ils ne manquent presque jamais de se rendre au support et a la condescendance , mansuetus homo , cordis est medicus . ie ne pretens pas monseigneur m'ingérer de vous donner la dessus aucun conseil particulier ; vous qui voiez les choses de prez , et qui avez le coeur tout pénetré de la charité chrestienne jugez mieux que personne des remedes qui sont les plus propres a un si grand mal ; et je suis asseuré que s'il ne falloit pour le guérir que s' abstenir de quelques expressions , que quitter quelques cérémonies , et que changer la couleur de quelques habits , vous vous y resouàriez avec grand pla s●r , et a quelque chose de plus difficile . il me semble m●sme avoir leu en quelque endroit des vindiciae de monsieur le doien de winsor que ce furent lá les sentimens charitables que fit paroistre l' eglise anglicane par la bouche de trois ou quatre de ses evesques dans une conférence qui se fit sur les moiens de réunion , en la preniére année du restablissement de sa majesté britannique , et qu'il ne tint qu'a quelques ministres de ceux qu'on appelle presbyteriens que la chose ne passast plus avant . quoy qu'il en soit je prie dieu de tout mon coeur qu'il ouvre les yeux des uns pour leur faire connoistre la foiblesse des raisons sur lesquelles ils fondent une séparation si affligeante , et qu'il conserve et qu'il augmente de plus en plus dans les autres , la piété , le zéle et la charité dont ils ont besoin pour travailler heureusement a une réünion qui réjonira les hommes et les anges , et qui attirera mille bénédictions de la terre et du ciel sur ceux qui y auront le plus contribüé : et je vous avouë monseigneur que je ne servis pas consolable si je voiois qu'on ne fist pas au moins quelque nouvel effort pour réüssir dans un ouvrage si saint et si important dans un temps qui m'y paroist si propre . car outre que les interests de vostre estat et de vostre eglise le demandent extraordinairement , i' apprens que par une admirable bénédiction du ciel , toutes vos chaires episcopales sont maintenant remplies par d' excellens serviteurs de dieu , qui aiment iesus christ et son eglise , et qui ont tous les qualitez de la teste et du coeur qui sont necessaires pour pouvoir et pour vouloir contribuer a cette bonne oeuvre . et a en juger par vous monseigneur , et par monseigneur l' archevesque de canterbery , et monseigneur l' evesque d' oxford que j'ay eu l'honneur de voir durant mon séjour en angleterre , je n'ay pas de peine a me le persuader . mais j'ay peur de vous avoir ennuyé par cette longue lettre , je vous en demande tres humblement pardon , et je vous supplie d'estre bien persuadé que je conserve toujours une extresme reconnoissance de l' amitie dont vous m'honorez , et que je suis avec tout le respect que je vous dois vostre tres humble & tres obeysant serviteur , de l'angle . monseigneur , monsieur claude mon excellent collegue a qui j'ay monstré cette lettre , m'a prié de vous dire , en vous asseurant de son tres humble service , qu'il la souscriroit de bon coeur et qu'il est absolument dans mes sentimens . paris , octob. . . second letter . from monsieur de l' angle one of the present preachers of the reformed church meeting at charenton near paris , upon the same subject . my lord , nothing may seem so strange and so uncivil to you , as my silence upon your letter you did me the honour to write me about three months ago . but yet it is true that in this case i have nothing to blame my self for ; and that you may believe it , as well as i , you will give me leave to tell you how the matter happened . when your letter was brought me , i was relapsed into a great and violent fever , with which god has afflicted me for the space of four or five months , and which has brought me very near the grave ; i prayed one of my friends , which was then in my chamber , to open the letter , and to tell me the name of him that wrote it ; but it chanced that you had forgotten to subscribe it , upon which i made it be brought to me , to see if i did not know the character ; but it was to no purpose , because till then i had not seen any thing of your hand . this made me believe that it had been written by the same man that brought it , to get ten or twelve sons for the carriage ; for that little stratagem is common enough in this town . after this , i did not much trouble my self what became of it ; but yet it was preserved in my cabinet by the greatest chance in the world ; and being happily fallen into my hands two or three days since , i read it over again ; and having found it too prudent and grave to have been written by such a one as i had imagined , i shewed it to monsieur claude , who presently knew your hand , and told me that you were the author of it . i think , my lord , this is enough to excuse me to you , for a silence , for which though i am not any way faulty , yet i cannot choose but be something ashamed . but to come to the contents of your letter ; i cannot express to you with how much grief i understand that your divisions continue , at a time in which there are such pressing reasons for being reunited . above all , that which you tell me of writings that are at this time published , to make men believe that communion with the church of england is unlawful , and that the ministers cannot permit it to private persons without sinning , seems to me a thing so unreasonable in it self , and so very unseasonable now , that i should scarce believe it , if it were not attested by a person of your merit and consideration . my lord , you know well what my sentiments are , and always have been in this matter ; and the way which i used two years ago , when i was in england , in frequenting your assemblies , and preaching too in a congregation that is under the jurisdiction of the church of england , sufficiently shews that i am very far from believing that her communion is unlawful . and this also proves very evidently that my opinion in this matter is the same that is holden by our churches ; because it is not imaginable that i would without any necessity , have done a thing which would have drawn the displeasure of my brethren upon me , and which at my return would have exposed my self to be blamed , if not to be censured by them . my lord , i would to god that all the mistaken christians that are in the world would receive your reformation ; i would with all my heart spend all the blood i have to procure them so great a good . and i am sure with what an exceeding joy our churches would enter into their communion , if being pure in their opinions for doctrine , they differed no more from us , than by surplices , and innocent ceremonies ; and some diversity of orders in the government of the church . and by this , my lord , you may perceive what i have to answer to your second question . for since the church of england is a true church of our lord ; since her worship and doctrines are pure , and have nothing in them contrary to the word of god ; and since that when the reformation was there received , it was received together with episcopacy , and with the establishment of the liturgy , and ceremonies , which are there in use at this day ; it is without doubt the duty of all the reformed of your realm , to keep themselves inseparably united to the church . and those that do not do this , upon pretence that they should desire more simplicity in that ceremonies , and less of inequality among the ministers , do certainly commit a very great sin . for schism is the most formidable evil that can befal the church : and for the avoiding of this , christian charity obliges all good men to bear with their brethren in some things much less tolerable than those , of which the dispute is , ought to seem , even in the eyes of those that have the most aversion for them . and this was so much the opinion of our great and excellent calvin , that in his treatise of the necessity of the reformation he makes no difficulty to say ; that if there should be any so unreasonable as to refuse the communion of a church that was pure in its worship and doctrine , and not to submit himself with respect to its government , under pretence that it had retained an episcopacy qualified as yours is ; there would be no censure nor rigour of discipline that ought not to be exercised upon them . talem nobis hierarchiam si exhibeant , in qua sic emineant episcopi ut christo subesse non recusent , ut ab illo tanquam ab unico capite pendeant , et ad ipsum referantur ; in qua sic inter se fraternam societatem colant , ut non alio modo quam ejus veritate sint colligati ; tum vero nullo non anathemate dignos fatear , si qui erunt ▪ qui non eum revereantur , summaque obedientia observent . and beza himself , who did not in the general approve of the episcopal government , makes such a distinction of yours , and is so far from believing , that one may , or that one ought to take occasion from thence to separate from your church , that he prays earnestly to god that she may always remain in that happy estate in which she had been put and preserved , by the blood , by the purity of the faith , and by the wise conduct of her excellent bishops . quod si nunc anglicana ecclesia instaurata suorum episcoporum et archiepiscoporum authoritate persistat , quemadmodum hoc nostrâ memoriâ contigit , ut ejus ordinis homines , non tantum insignes dei martyres , sed etiam praestantissimos pastores et doctores habuerit , frautur sane istâ singulari dei beneficentiâ , quae utinam illi sit perpetua . but , my lord , although the first authors of the separation , which troubles you , be extraordinarily to blame , and though those that continue it , and strengthen it , by their unreasonable and passionate writings , be extreamly so too ; it is certain yet that among the multitude that follows them , there is a very great number of good-men , whose faith is pure , and whose piety is sincere , and who remain separate from you only because their simplicity is surprized , and because they have been frightned with the bugbear words of tyranny , oppression , limbs of antichrist which are continually beaten into their ears . i rank these with those weak ones who said they were not of the body ; and of whom st. paul said they were of the body for all that . and it seems to me that the good and charitable bishops , such as you , ought to say of them , though in something a different sense , as optatus milevitanus said of the donatists of his time , si collegium episcopale nolunt nobiscum habere , tamen fra●res sunt . in the name of god then , my lord , do all that possibly you can to bring them back to their duty by sweetness and charity , which is only able to do great things on these occasions . for men , who have always something of pride , do commonly oppose every thing that seems to them to act by bare authority only : but they scarce ever fail to yield themselves up to forbearance and condescension . mansuetus homo cordis est medicus . i do not pretend , my lord , to thrust my self in to give you any particular advice in this case ; you that see things near at hand , and that have a heart deeply affected with christian charity , will judge better than any man , what remedies are the most proper for so great an evil ; and i am sure that if there were nothing wanting to cure it , but the a staining from some expressions , the quitting some ceremonies , and the changing the colour of some habits , you would resolve to do that , and something more difficult than that , with great pleasure . and i think i have read in some part of the vindiciae of mr ●ean of windsor , that these were the charitable sentiments which the church of england declared by the mouth of three or four of her bishops , in a conference that was held concerning the means of re-union , the first year that his majesty was restored ; and that nothing hindered the matter from going farther , but some of those ministers they call presbyterians . however it be , i pray god with all my heart , that he would open the eyes of the one to make them see the weakness of the reasons upon which they ground such an afflicting separation ; and that he would preserve , and increase more and more in the other , that piety , that zeal , and that charity which they have need of for the happy proceeding to a re-union , which will rejoice men and angels , and bring down a thousand blessings of heaven and earth upon those that shall contribute the most unto it . and i assure you , my lord , i should be 〈◊〉 ●●mpt at all comfort if i should see that some new 〈◊〉 least were not made for the success of a 〈…〉 so holy , and of such consequence , in a time 〈…〉 to me so proper for it . for besides that the interest of your state , and church do require it in such an extraordinary manner ; i hear that by a wonderful blessing of heaven , all your episcopal sees are filled at this time with excellent servants of god , who love iesus christ and his church and who have all the qualities of the head and the heart , which are necessary to make them able , and willing to contribute to this good work . and to judge of it by you , my lord , and my lord arch-bishop of canterbury , and my lord bishop of oxford , whom i had the honour to see during my stay in england , i am easily perswaded of it . but i am afraid i have tired you with this long letter ; i humbly beg your pardon for it ; and i beseech you to be very well assured that i alwayes preserve a very grateful acknowledgement of the friendship with which you honour me , and that i am with all the respect that i owe my lord , your most humble and most obedient servant , de l' angle . mons. claude my excellent collegue , to whom i have shewed this letter , has prayed me to tell you , with assurance of his most humble service , that he would subscribe this with all his heart , and that he is absolutely of my opinion . the third letter , from monsieur claude , on the same subject . a paris . novemb. stilo novo . monseigneur , monsieur de l' angle m'ayaut rendu la lettre qu'il vous a plû m'écrire , j'ay esté surpris d'y voir que vous m'aviez fait l'honneur de m'en écrire une autre que je n'ay point receüe , & à laquelle je n'eusse pas manquè de faire réponse . vous me faites beaucoup d'honneur de vouloir bien que je vous dise ma pensée sur le different qui vous trouble depuis long-tems , entre ceux qu'on appelle episcopaux , & ceux qu'on nomme presbyteriens . quoy que je m'en sois deja diverses fois expliquè & par des lettres que j'ay faites sur ce sujet à plusieurs personnes , & dans mon livre mesme de la defense de la reformation , où parlant de la distinction de l' evesque & du prestre , j'ay dit formellement que je ne blame pas ceux qui l'observent comme une chose fort ancienne , & que je ne voudrois pas qu'on s'en fist un sujet de querelle dans les lieux où elle se trouve établie , pag. . & quoy que d'ailleurs je me connoisse assez pour ne pas croire que mon sentiment doive estre fort considerè , je ne laisseray pas de vous temoigner dans cette occasion , comme je feray toujours en toute autre , mon estime chretienne , mon respect , & mon obeissance . c'est ce que je feray d'autant plus que je ne vous diray pas simplement ma pensée particuliere , mais le sentiment du general de nos eglises . premierement donc , monseigneur , nous sommes si fort éloignez de croire qu'on ne puisse en bonne conscience vivre sous vostre discipline , & sous vostre gouvernement episcopal , que dans nostre pratique ordinaire nous ne faisons nulle difficultè , ni de donner nos chaires , ni de commettre le soin de nos troupeaux à des ministres receus & ordinez par messieurs vos evesques , comme il se pourroit justifier par un assez grand nombre d'exemples , & anciens , & recens , & depuis peu mr. duplessis ordinè par monsieur l' evesque de lincoln à esté establi , & appellè dans une eglise de cette province , & monsieur wicart , que vous , monseigneur , avez receu au s. ministere nous fit l'honneur il-n'y-a que quelques mois de prescher à charenton à l'edification universelle detout nostre troupeau . ainsi ceux qui nous imputent à cet égard des sentimens éloignez de la paix & de la concorde chretienne , nous font assurement injustice . ie dis la paix & la concorde chretienne , car , monseigneur , nous croyons que l'obligation à conserver cette paix & cette concorde fraternelle , qui fait l'unité exterieure de l'eglise , est d'une necessitè si indispensable que s. paul n'a pas fait difficultè de la joindre avec l'unité interieure d'une mesme foy , & d'une mesme regeneration , non seulement comme deux choses qui ne doivent jamais estre separées , mais aussi comme deux choses dependantes l'une de l'autre , parce que si l'unité exterieure est comme la fille de l'interieure , elle en est aussi la conservatrice . cheminez , dit il ephes. . comme il est convenable à la vocation dont vous estes appellez , avec toute humilitè , & douceur , avec un esprit patient , supportant l'un l'autre en charité . estant soigneux de garder l'unitè de l'esprit par la lien de la paix . d'un cotè il fait dependre cette charitè fraternelle , qui nous joint les uns avec les autres , de nostre commune vocation , & de l'autre il nous enseigne qu'un des principaux moyens de conserner en son entier cette commune vocation qu'il appelle l'unitè de l'esprit , est de garder entre nous la paix . selon la premiere de ces maximes nous ne pouvons avoir de paix , ni de communion ecclesiastique avec ceux qui ont tellement degenerè de la vocation chretienne qu'on ne peut plus reconnoitre en eux une veritable & salutaire foy , principalement lors qu' à des erreurs mortelles ils ajoutent la tyrannie de l'ame , & qu'ils voulent contraindre la conscience , en imposant la necessitè de croire ce qu'ils croyent & de pratiquer ce qu'ils pratiquent . car en ce cas le fondement & la veritable cause de la communion exterieure n'estant plus , la communion exterieure cesse aussi de droit , & il-n'y-en peut plus avoir de legitime . selon la seconde maxime nous ne croyons pas qu'une simple difference de gouvernement , ou de discipline , ni mesme un difference de ceremonies innocentes de leur nature , soient un sujet suffisant pour rompre le sacrè lien de la communion . c'est pourquoy nos eglises ont toûjours regardè & considerè la vostre , non seulement comme une soeur , mais comme une soeur aisuée pour qui nous devons avoir des tendresses accompagnées de respect & de veneration , & pour qui nous présentons sans cesse à dieu des voeux tresardens . nous n'entrons point dans la comparaison de vostre ordre , aver celuy sous lequel nous vivons . nous savons qu'il-n'y-en a , ni n'y-en peut avoir aucun entre les hommes , qui par nostre corruption naturelle , ne soit sujet à des inconveniens , le nostre à les siens comme le vostre , & l'un & l'autre sans doute ayant leurs avantages & leurs desavantages à divers égards , alternis vincut & vincuntur . il nous suffit de savoir que la mesme providence divine qui par une necessitè indispensable , & par la conjoncture des choses , mit au commencement de la reformation nos eglises sous celuy du presbyterat , à mis la vostre sous celuy de l' episcopat , & que comme nous sommes assurez que vous ne meprisez point nostre simplicitè , nous ne devons pas aussi nous élever contre vostre dignitè . ainsi , monseigneur , nous desapprouvons entierement , & voyons avec douleur , de certeines extremitez où se jettent quelques uns de part & d'autre , les uns regardant l' episcopat comme un ordre si absolument necessaire que sans luy il-n'y peut avoir ni de societè ecclesiastique , ni de legitime vocation ni d'esperance de salut , & les autres le regardant avec indignation comme un reste d' antichristianisme . ce sont également des chaleurs & des excés qui ne viennent point de celuy qui nous appelle , & qui pechent contre les loix de la sagesse & de la charité . voylà , monseigneur , nos veritables & sinceres sentimens communs , pour ce qui vous regarde , & puisque vous desirez que je descende un peu plus particulierement à l'état où se trouve vostre propre eglise , par les divisions intestines qui la travaillent , permettez moy que je ne vous dise mes pensées qu'en vous expliquant mes souhaits , & les desirs de mon coeur , sur une chose aussi importante que l'est celle là . ie souhaiterois donc de toute mon ame que ceux qui sont allez jusqu ' à ce point que de songer à rompre les liens exterieurs , & la dependance mutuelle de vos troupeaux , pour donner à chaque eglise particuliere une espece de souveraigntè de gouvernement , considerassent bien si ce qu'ils prétendent faire n'est pas directement contraire à l'esprit du christianisme qui est un esprit d'union , & de societè , & non de division . qu'ils considerassent que sous prétexte que le principe des reformez est d'avoir en horreur la domination humaine sur la foy , & sur la conscience , comme une chose destructive de la religion , il ne faut pourtant pas ni rejetter tout frein de discipline , ni secoüer tout joug de gouvernement , ni se priver des secours que nous pouvous tirer de l'union generale pour nous affermir dans la vraye foy , & dans la vraye pietè . qu'ils considerassent enfin que la mesme raison qui leur fait desirer l' independence des troupeaux , peut estre aussi employée pour établir l' independance des personnes dans chaque troupeau . car un troupeau n'a pas plus de droit de vouloir estre independant des autres troupeaux , qu'une personne en auroit de vouloir estre independante des autres personnes . or ce seroit ' aneantir toute discipline , jetter l' eglise entant qu'en nous seroit dans une horrible confusion ; & exposer l'heritage du seigneur à l'opprobre de ses adversaries . pour ce qui regarde ceux qu'on appelle parmy vous presbyteriens , comme je suis persuadè qu'ils ont de la lumiere , de la sagesse , & du zele , je souhaiterois aussi de tout mon coeur qu'ils gardassent plus de mesure dans le scandale qu'ils croyent avoir autrefois receu de l'ordre episcopal , & qu'ils distinguassent les personnes d'aves le ministere . les personnes qui occupent les charges non seulement ont leurs defauts , mais il peut mesme quelquefois arriver que les plus saintes , & les plus eminentes charges soient possedées par des méchans , & en ce cas la raison & la pietè voulent également qu'on ne confonde pas le ministere avec le ministre . a present que dieu par sa grace a ôtè ce scandale de devant leurs yeux , & qu'il leur a fait voir dans les personnes de messieurs les evesques de la pietè , du zele , & de la fermetè , pour la conservation de la religion , j'espere que cela mesme ne contribuera pas peu à l'adoucissement des esprits . d'ailleurs je souhaiterois qu'il leur plust de considerer que si dans le gouvernement episcopal il-y-à des inconveniens facheux , comme je ne doute pas qu'il-n'y-en-ayt , il-y-en-à aussi & de tres-facheux dans le presbyterien , comme je l'ay deja dit . nul ordre dont l'exercice est entre les mains des hommes n'en est exempt , l'egalitè à ses vices , & ses excés à craindre , de mesme que la superioritè . le plus sur & le plus sage n'est donc pas de voltiger de l'une à l'autre , ni de risquer de faire un ébranlement general , sur l'esperance d'estre mieux , quand mesme on seroit en autoritè & en pouvoir de le faire . la prudence , la justice , & la charitè chretienne ne permettent pas d'en venir à ces éclattantes & dangereuses extremitez , pour une simple difference de gouvernment . le plus sur , & le plus sage est de tacher d'apporter quelque temperament pour éviter , ou pour diminuer autant qu'il se peut les inconveniens qu'on apprehende , & non de recourir à des remedes violens . ie ne craindray pas d'appeller de ce nom celuy de faire des assemblées à part , de se separer des assemblées communes , & de se soustraire de vostre gouvernement . il-n'y-a personne qui ne voye que ce seroit un veritable schisme , qui en luy-mesme & de sa nature ne peut jamais estre qu'odieux à dieu , & aux hommes , & dont les auteurs , & les protecteurs ne sauroient eviter qu'ils ne rendent conte devant le tribunal de nostre commun maitre . quand s. paul nous a defendu de delaisser nostre commune assemblée , il a non seulement condamnè ceux qui ne s'y trouvent point en demeurant dans leur particulier , mais ceux aussi sans doute qui en font d'autres opposees aux communes , car c'est rompre le lien de la charitè chretienne qui ne nous joint pas seulement avec quelques uns de nos freres , mais avec tous nos freres , pour recevoir d'eux de l'edification , & pour leur en donner de nostre part , en vivant ensemble dans une mesme societè . el il ne servirot de rien de pretexter que la conscience resiste à se trouver dans des assemblées qui se font sous un gouvernement qu'on n'approuve pas , & que ce seroit approuver exterieurement , ce que l'on condamne interieurement . car outre qu'il faudroit bien examiner la question si ces resistances ne viennent pas d'une conscience trompée , par un jugement precipitè , puisque les plus gens de bien sont souvent sujets à se former de tels scrupules qui au fond ne sont pas tout à fait legitimes . outre cela , il faut distinguer trois sortes de choses , les unes que la conscience approuve , & recoit , & ausquelles elle acquiesce pleinement , les autres qu'elle regarde comme insupportables , & comme destructives de la gloire de dieu , de la vraye foy , on de la vraye pieté , & de l'esperance du salut , & les autres enfin qui tiennent le milieu , c'est-a-dire qu'on n'approuve pas à la veritè pleinement , mais qu'on ne croit pourtant pas mortelles à la vraye pietè & au salut , en un mot qu'on regarde comme des taches & des infirmitez supportables . i'avoüe que quand on trouve dans des assemblées des choses de ce second ordre , ou que la conscience les juge telles , on ne peut y assister , & toute la question se reduit à savoir , si l'on ne se trompe pas , sur quoy il faut bien prendre garde de ne pas faire de jugemens temeraires . mais de s'imaginer qu'on ne puisse en bonne conscience assister à des assemblées , que lors qu'on y approuve pleinement & generalement toutes choses , c'est assurement ne pas connoitre ni l'usage de la charitè , ni les loix de la societè chretienne . ce principe renverseroit toutes les eglises , car je ne say s'il-y-en a aucune dont le gouvernement , la discipline , la forme exterieure , les usages , & les pratiques soient dans une telle perfection , qu'il-n'y-ayt absolument rien à redire , & quoy qu'il en soit comme les jugemens des hommes sont fort differens , ce seroit ouvrir la porte à des separations continuelles , & abolir les assemblées . il est donc constant que la conscience n'oblige point à se soustraire des assemblées , mais qu'au contraire elle nous oblige de nous y tenir attachez , lors que les choses qui nous y choquent sont supportables , & qu'elles n'empechent pas l'efficace salutaire de la parole , du culte divin , & des sacremens . et c'est à la faveur de ce support de la charitè qu'est couverte l'assistance que nous donnons à des choses que nous n'approuvons pas entierement . voyez ce que s. paul dit à ses philippiens , chap. . si vous sentez quelque chose autrement , dieu vous le revelera aussi . toutefois cheminons en ce à quoy nous sommes pervenus d'une mesme regle , & sentons une mesme chose . cela est bien éloiguè de dire , des que vous aurez le moindre sentiment contraire separez vous , la conscience ne vous permet pas de demeurer ensemble . consilia separationis , dit s. augustin contre parmenian , inania sunt & perniciosa , & plus perturbant infirmos bonos , quàm corrigant animosos malos . quels funestes effets ne produiroit pas une telle separation si elle s'établissoit au milieu de vous ? de la maniere que les esprits des hommes sont faits , on verroit bien-tôt naitre de là la difference des interets , celle des partys , celle des sentimens à l'égard mesme de la societè civile , la hayne mutuelle , & toutes les autres tristes suites que la division , qui n'est plus temperée par la charitè , produit naturellement . ie laisse à part le scandale qu'en recevroient toutes les eglises reformées de l' europe , la joye qu'en auroient leurs adversaires , & les avantages qu'ils en retireroient , qui selon toutes les apparences ne seroient pas petits . i'ay trop bonne opinion de ces messieurs qui croyent que la gouvernement presbyterien est preferable à l' episcopal , pour n'estre pas persuadè qu'ils font de sages & de serieuses reflexions sur toutes ces choses , & sur tant d'autres que leurs lumieres leur fournissent , & que la conscience , & l'amour de la religion protestante les empechera toujours de rien faire , qui puisse estre blamè devant dieu , & devant les hommes . car enfin je ne saurois croire qu'il-y-en-ayt aucun parmy eux , qui regarde ni vostre episcopat , ni vostre discipline , ni quelques ceremonies que vous observez , comme des taches & des erreurs capitales , qui empechent qu'on ne puisse faire son salut , & mesme avec facilitè dans vos assemblées & sous vostre gouvernement . il ne s'agit icy ni de l' esse , ni du bene esse , mais seulement du melius esse , qu'ils disputent avec vous , & cela estant ainsi la justice , la charitè , l'amour de la paix , la prudence , & le zele pour le general de la religion ne consentiront jamais qu'ils se détachent de vous . mais , monseigneur , puisque vous m'avez mis la plume à la main sur ce sujet , pardonnez je vous supplie à ma libertè si elle và jusqu'à vous dire ce que je croy que vous aussi devez faire de vostre part . i'espere donc que dans ces occasions que dieu vous presente vous ferez voir à toute la terre , & en convaincrez les plus incredulez que vous aves de la pietè , du zele , & de la crainte de dieu , & que vous estez de dignes ouvriers , & de dignes serviteurs de iesus christ. c'est deja le temoignage que vous rendent les gens de bien , & que nul quelque mal intentionnè qu'il soit , n'ose contredire , & je ne doute pas que vous ne poussiez vostre vocation jusqu'an bout . mais outre cela , monseigneur , j'espere que vous ne defaudrez point aux devoirs de la charitè , & de l'esprit de paix , & que quand il ne s'agria que de quelques temperamens , ou de quelques ceremonies qui servent d'achoppement , & qui en elles mesmes ne sont rien en comperaison d'une entiere reünion de vostre eglise sous vostre saint ministere , vous ferez voir que vous aymez l'epouse de vostre maitre plus que vous mesmes , & que ce n'est pas tant de vostre grandeur , & de vostre dignitè ecclesiastique que vous desirez tirer vostre gloire & vostre joye , que de vos vertus pastorales , & des soins ardens que vous avez de vos troupeaux . i'espere aussi que ceux que vous avez choisis , & appellez au s. ministere , & ceux que desormais vous y appellerez avec un prudent discernement , reglez non seulement par la donceur , mais aussi par la severitè de la discipline , quand la severitè sera necessaire , marcheront sur vos traces , & suiront heureusement l'exemple que vous leur donnerez , pour estre eux-mesmes en exemple , & en edification aux eglises qui leur sont commises . ie finis , monseigneur , par des prieres tres-ardentes que je présente à dieu de tout mon coeur , afin qu'il luy plaise de vous conserver à jamais le flamebeau de son evangile , de repandre sur tout le corps de vostre ministere , une abondante mesure de son onction & de sa benediction celeste , dont celle de l'ancien aaron n'estoit que l'ombre , afin qu'elle soit non l'embleme & l'image de la concorde fraternelle comme cette ancienne , mais qu'elle en soit la cause & le lien . ie le prie qu'il veu●lle de plus en plus ramener le coeur des enfans aux peres , & des peres aux enfans , afin que vostre eglise soit heuereuse , & agreable comme un eden de dieu . ie le prie enfin qu'il vous conserve , vous , monseigneur , en parfait & longue santè pour sa gloire , & pour le bien & l'avantage de cette grande & considerable pertie de son champ qu'il vous a donnè cultiver , & que vous cultivez si heureusement . ie vous demande aussi le secours de vos saintes prieres , & la continuation de l'honneur de vostre affection , en vous protestant que je seray toute ma vie avec tout le respect que je vous dois , monseigneur , vostre tres-humble & tres-obeissant serviteur & fils en jesus christ , clavde . paris novemb. . stilo novo . my lord , monsieur de l' angle having given me the letter which you have been pleased to write me , i was surprized to see by that , that you had done me the honour to write me another which i have not received , and to which i had not failed to make an answer . you do me a great deal of honour to desire that i should tell you my thoughts of the difference that has troubled you so long , betwixt those they call episcopal , and those they name presbyterians . although i have already explained my self about this divers tims , both by letters which i have written upon this subject to several persons , and in my book too of the defence of the reformation , where speaking of the distinction betwixt the bishop and the priest , i have said expresly , that i do not blame those that observe it as a thing very ancient , and that i would not that any one should make it an occasion of quarrel in those places where it is established , pag. . and though i otherwaies know my self sufficiently not to believe that my opinion should be much considered , i will not forbear to assure you upon this occasion , as i shall always do upon any other , of my christian esteem , my respect , and my obedience . this i shall do the rather because i shall not simply tell you my private thoughts , but the opinion of the generality of our churches . first then , my lord , we are so very far from believing that a man cannot live with a good conscience under your discipline and under your episcopal government , that in our ordinary practice we make no difficulty , neither to bestow our chairs , nor to commit the care of our flocks to ministers received , and ordained by my lords the bishops ; as might be justified by a great number enought of examples both old and new : and a little while since mr. duplessis that was ordained by my lord bishop of lincoln has been established and called in a church of this province . and monsieur wicart , whom you , my lord , received to the holy ministery , did us the honour , but some months agoe , to preach at charenton to the general edification of our flock . so that they who in this respect do impute unto us any opinions distant from peace , and christian concord , do certainly do us wrong . i say peace and christian concord : for , my lord , we believe that the obligation to preserve this peace , and this brotherly concord , which make up the external unity of the church , is of a necessity so indispensable , that st. paul has made no difficulty to join it with the internal unity of the same faith , and the same regeneration ; not onely as two things which ought never to be separated , but likewise as two things depending the one upon the other ; because if the external unity be as it were the daughter of the internal , she is likewise the preserver of it . walk , says he , ephes. . worthy of the calling wherewith ye are called , with all lowliness and meekness , with long-suffering , forbearing one another in love ; endeavouring to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace . on the one side he makes this brotherly love , which joins us one with another , to depend upon our common vocation ; and on the other side he teaches us that one of the principal means to preserve our common vocation intire , which he calls the unity of the spirit , is to keep peace among our selves . according to the first of these maximes we cannot have peace , or ecclesiastical communion with those that have so degenerated from the christian vocation , that one cannot perceive in them a true and saving faith ; especially when with mortal errours they join tyranny over the soul , and that they will force the conscience , by imposing a necessity to believe that which they believe , and to practise that which they practise . for in this case the foundation and true cause of external communion being no more , the external communion to its self ceases of right , and there is not any that is lawfull to be had any more with such . according to the second maxime we do not believe that a single difference of government or discipline , nor even a difference of ceremonies innocent in their own nature is a sufficient occasion to break the sacred bond of communion . wherefore our churches have always looked upon and considered yours , not onely as a sister , but as an elder sister , for which we ought to have a kindness accompanied with respect , and veneration , and for which we do present most ardent prayers unto god without ceasing . we do not enter into the comparison of your order , with that under which we live . we know that there is not neither can there be any amongst men , which by reason of our natural corruption is not subject to inconveniencies , ours has hers , as well as yours ; and the one and the other without doubt have their advantages , and disadvantages in divers respects : alternis vincunt , & vincuntur . it is enough for us to know that the same divine providence which by an indispensable necessity , and by the conjuncture of affairs , did at the beginning of the reformation put our churches under that of the presbytery , has put yours under that of the episcopacy ; and as we are assured that you do not despise our simplicity , so neither ought we to oppose our selves against your preeminence . so that , my lord , we utterly disapprove and see with grief , certain extremes whereinto some of the one side , and the other do cast themselves . the one looking upon episcopacy as an order so absolutely necessary , that without it there can be no ecclesiastical society , nor lawfull vocation , nor hope of salvation ; and the other looking upon it with indignation as a rellque of antichristianism . these are equally heats and excesses which do not come from him that calls us , and which do offend against the laws of wisedom and charity . these , my lord , are our true and sincere common opinions . for what concerns you , since you desire that i would descend a little more particularly into the state that your own church is in , by reason of the intestine divisions that trouble it ; give me leave not to tell you my thoughts , without declaring my wishes , and the desires of my heart , upon a matter so important as this is . i could wish then with all my sould that those that are gone so far as this point , to think to break the external bonds , and the mutual dependance of your flocks , to give every particular church a kind of sovereignty of government , would consider well whether that they pretend to doe be not directly contrary to the spirit of christianity , which is a spirit of union , and society , and not of division . that they would consider that under the pretence that the principle of the reformed was to abhor men's domineering over faith , and conscience , as a thing destructive of religion , we ought not for all that to reject the bridle of discipline , nor to shake off the whole yoke of government , nor deprive our selves of the succours we might draw out of a general union , for to strengthen us in the true faith , and in true piety . that they would consider , in fine , that the same reason which makes them desire the independency of the flocks , may be likewise imployed to establish the independency of the persons in every flock . for a flock has no more right to desire to be independent upon other flocks , than a person might have to desire to be independent upon other persons . but this would be to bring all discipline to nothing , to throw the church , as much as in us lies , into a horrible confusion , and to expose the heritage of the lord to the reproach of its adversaries . for what concerns those which amongst you they call presbyterians , as i am perswaded that they have light , and wisedom , and zeal , so i could wish with all my heart , that they would observe more moderation in the scandal they believe they have heretofore received from the episcopal order , and that they would distinguish the persons from the ministry . the persons that possess the places have not onely their faults , but it may happen too sometimes that the most holy , and most eminent places may be possessed by wicked men ; and in that case reason and peity do equally require that we should not confound the ministry with the minister . at present that god by his grace has taken away this scandal from before their eyes , and made them see piety , zeal , and constancy for the preservation of religion in the persons of the bishops , i hope that this will not a little contribute to the sweetning of their spirits . besides , i could wish that they would be pleased to consider that if there be some unpleasant inconveniencies in the episcopal government , as i do not doubt but there are , there are too some very unpleasant ones in the presbyterian , as i have said already . no order whose execution is in the hands of men , is exempt from them ; an equality has its faults and excesses to be feared , as well as a superiority . therefore it is not the most safe and wise way to leap from the one to the other , nor to hazard the making a general concussion , upon the hopes of being better , though one should be in authority and power to doe it . christian prudence , justice and charity do not permit us to proceed to such daring and dangerous extremes , for a single difference of government . it is most safe and wise to indeavour to provide some kind of temper to avoid , or to lessen as much as may be , the inconveniencies that are feared , and not have recourse to violent remedies . i shall not be afraid to give that name to the holding of assemblies apart , and separating from the publick assemblies , and withdrawing themselves from under your government . there is no man that does not see that this would be real schism , which in it self and of its own nature cannot choose but be always odious to god and men , and of which the authours and patrons cannot avoid the rendring an account before the tribunal of our common master . when saint paul forbad us to forsake the assembling of our selves together , he did not onely condemn those that did not come thither , but stayed at home ; but those too without doubt that held other assemblies in opposition to the publick ones . for this is to break the bond of christian charity which does not onely join us with some of our brethren , but with all our brethren , to receive from them , and to give them edification by living together in the same communion . and it would be to no purpose to pretend that our conscience did oppose our being present at those assemblies that are held under a government that we do not approve ; and that that would be to approve outwardly , what we inwardly condemn . for besides that it would be necessary to examin well the question , whether these oppositions do not proceed from a conscience mistaken by a precipitate judgment ; since that the best men are often subject to fram to themselves such scruples , as are not altogether lawfull at the bottom . further than this it is necessary to distingush three kinds of things ; the one those which the conscience approves , and admits of , and in which it does fully acquiesce ; the other which she looks upon as intolerable , and destructive to the glory of god , and the true faith , or true piety , and the hopes of salvation ; and others lastly which are between these , that is to say such as we do not fully approve as to the truth , but yet we do not believe them mortal enemies to true piety and salvation ; in a word such as we look upon as stains , and tolerable infirmities . i affirm that when we find things of this second rank in any assemblies , or those which the conscience judges such , we cannot be present there ; and the whole question will be reduced to this , to know , whether we be not mistaken , where we ought to take good heed that we do not make a rash judgment . but to imagine that we cannot with a good conscience be present at assemblies , but onely when we do fully and generally approve of all things in them , it is certainly not to know neither the use of charity , nor the laws of christian society . this principle would overturn all churches , for i cannot tell whether there be any , whose government , discipline , outward form , usages , and practices be of such perfection , that there is nothing at all in them to blame ; and however it be , as the judgments of men are very different , this would be to open the gate to continual separations , and to abolish all assemblies . it is therefore certain that conscience does not oblige us to withdraw from the assemblies , but on the contrary it obliges us to join with them , when the things that offend us are tolerable , and do not hinder the salutary efficacy of the word , of the divine worship , and of the sacraments . 't is the favour of this charitable patience that justifies our being present at those things which we do not perfectly approve . see what st. paul says to the philippians , chap. . if in any thing ye be otherways minded , god shall reveal even this unto you . nevertheless , whereto we have already attained , let us walk by the same rule , let us mind the same thing . this is very far from saying , as soon as ye have the least contrary sentiment separate your selves , conscience will not allow you to remain together . consilia separationis , says st. augustin against parmenian , inania sunt & perniciosa , & plus perturbant infirmos bonos , quam corrigant animosos malos . what deadly effects would not such a separation produce if it were established amongst you ? as the dispositions of men are , one should quickly see to spring from hence a difference of interests , of parties , of opinions , even in respect of the civil society , mutual hatred , and all the other sad consequences which a division not tempered with charity does naturally produce . i let alone the scandal which all the reformed churches of europe would receive by 〈…〉 which their adversaries would have , and we advantages which they would draw from it , which in all appearance would not be small . i have too good an opinion of those gentlemen who believe that the presbyterian government is to be preferred before the episcopal , not to be perswaded that they make wise and serious reflections upon all these things , and many more which their own knowledge furnishes them with ; and that conscience , and the love of the protestant religion will always hinder them from doing any thing , that may be blamed before god and men . for in fine i cannot believe that there is any one amongst them that looks upon your episcopacy , or your discipline , or certain ceremonies which you observe , as blots , and capital errours , which hinder a man from obtaining salvation , even with facility in your assemblies , and under your government . the question here is not about the esse , or the bene esse , but onely about the melius esse , that they dispute with you ; and this being so , justice , charity , the love of peace , prudence , and zeal for religion in the general will never allow that they should divide themselves from you . but , my lord , since you have put the pen into my hand upon this subject , i beseech you pardon my freedom if it go so far as to tell you what i think you also ought to doe on your part . i hope then that on these opportunities that god presents unto you , you will make all the world see , and convince the most incredulous , that you have piety , zeal , and the fear of god , and that you are worthy labourers , and worthy servants of jesus christ. this is the tetimony which all good men do already give you , and none how spightfull soever he be dares to contradict it , and i do not doubt but that you will carry on your calling to the end . but besides this , my lord , i hope you willnot be wanting in the duties of charity , and the spirit of peace , and that when the dispute shall be onely of some temperaments , or of some ceremonies that are a stumbling-block , and which in themselves are nothing in comparison of an intire reunion of your church under your holy ministry , you will make it seen that you love the spouse of your master more than your selves ; and that it is not so much from your greatness , and your ecclesiastical dignity that you desire to receive your glory , and your joy , as from your pastoral vertues , and the ardent care you take of your flocks . i hope too that those you have chosen and called to the holy ministry , and those which hereafter you shall with a prudent diseretion call unto it , being governed not onely by sweetness , but likewise by severity of discipline , when severity shall be necessary , will tread in your steps , and happily follow the example which you shall give them , that they may be themselves for an example , and edification to the churches that are committed to them . i conclude , my lord , with very earnest prayers which i present to god with all my heart , that it would please him always to preseve unto you the light of his gospel , and to pour out upon the whole body of your ministry , an abundant measure of his unction and heavenly benediction , of which that of the old aaron was but a shadow ; that it may be not the emblem , and image of brotherly concord , like the unction of old , but the cause and bond of it . i pray him that he would more and more bring back the heart of the children to the fathers , and of the fathers to the children , that your church may be happy and pleasant as the paradise of god. lastly i pray that he would preserve you , my lord , in perfect and long health , for his glory , and the good and advantage of that great and considerable part of his field which he has given you to cultivate , and which you do cultivate so happily . i desire too the help of your holy prayers , and the continuance of the honour of your affection , protesting to you that i will be all my life with all the respect that i owe you , my lord , your most humble and most obedient servant and son in iesus christ , claude . finis . a catalogue of some books printed for henry mortclock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . a rational account of the grounds of protestant religion , being a vindication of the lord archbishop of canterburie's relation of a conference , &c. from the pretended answer of t. c. wherein the true grounds of faith are cleared , and the false discovered ; the church of england vindicated from the imputation of schism , and the most important particular controversies between us and those of the church of rome , throughly examined . the second edition corrected , by edw. stillingfleet , d. d. folio . sermons preached upon several occasions , with a discourse annexed concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ , wherein crellius his answer to grotius is considered , by edw. stillingfleet , d. d. folio . irenicum : a weapon salve for the churches wounds , by edw. stillingfleet , d. d. quarto . a discourse concering the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it , in answer to some papers of a revolted protestant , with a particular account of the fanaticism and divisions of that church , by edw. stillingfleet , d. d. octavo . an answer to several late treatises occasioned by a book entituled a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it , by edw. stillingfleet , d. d. the first part , octavo . a second discourse in vindication of the protestant grounds of faith , against the pretence of infallibility in the rom. church , in answer to the guide in controversies , by r. h. protestancy without principles , and reason and religion , or the certain rule of faith , by e. w. with a particular enquiry into the miracles of the roman church , by edw. stillingflect , d. d. octavo . a defence of the discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , in answer to a book cutituled catholicks no idolaters , by edw. stillingfleet , d. d. dean of s. paul's , and chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e arch-bishop whitgift's defence of the answer to the admonition , p. . life of bishop jewel before his works , n. . vita juelli per hum●red . p. . preface to d vol. of serm. sect. . preface to the first volume , sect. . acts and monuments , tom. . p. . foxes and firebrands . . church history , l. . p. . history of presbyter . l. . p. . annales elizabethae , a. d. . v. thom. à iesu , de natura divinae orationis . defence of the answer , p. . page . fair warning second part printed by h. march. . contzen politic . l. . c. ▪ sect. ▪ sect. . coleman's tr●al , p. ▪ vindiciae libertatis evangelii ; or a iustification of our present indulgence and acceptance of licences , . p. . sacrilegious desertion rebuked ▪ and tolerated preaching vindicated , . answer to sacrileg . desert . p. . . page . page . page . page . preface to the defence of the cure , p. . defence of the cure of divisions , introduction , p. , &c. sacrilegious desertion , p. , . defence of the cure , p. . dr. o. vindication , p. . letter out of the country , p. . pag● . mischief of impos . end of the preface . preface , p. , . page . mischief of imposition preface towards the end . christian direct . cases eccles. p. . defence of cure of divis . introd . p. . ib. & p. . arch-bishop whitgift ' s defence , &c. p. . several conferences , p. , &c. orig. sucr . l. . ch . . p. . orig. sacr. p. , . papers for accommodation , p. . answer to r. williams , p. . irenic . p. . page . page , . page . co. iast . . part. , . notes for div a -e acts and monuments vol. . p. . mischief of impositions preface . fresh suit against ceremonies , p. . pet. martyr , epist. theolog . hoopero , buc. r. script . anglic. p. . acts and mon. vol. . p. . ridiey's articles of visitation , . vindicat. of nonconf . p. . p. . . iacob's answer to iohnson , p. , . iohnson's defence of his ninth reason . bradford's confer . with the b● . acts and mon. vol. . p. . iacob ' s answer , p. . letters of the martyrs , p. . plea for peace , p. ● . page . page . calvin , ep. . ep. . ep. . tr. of fr. p. . page . letters of the martyrs , p. . bonavent . 〈◊〉 ps. . angel. roecha de soll●●i communione summi pontificis , p. . . calvin . epist. ad sadolet . de verâ eccl. reformatione , c. . ●●●olamp . epist. f. . bucer . scri●t . ●●gl . p. . dialogue between a soldier of barwick , and a-english chaplain , p. , . beza epist. . part of a register , p. . beza epist. . p , . gualter . ep. ded . ad hom. in ep. ad c●rinth . zanchii , epist . l. . p. . see his letter in fullers church-history , l. . p. ● . bullinger , ep. ad robert winton ▪ in the appendix to bishop whitgifts first book . parker on the cross ▪ part. . cap. . sect. . vide profane schism of the brownists , ch. . giffords first treatise against the donatists of england , preface . gifford's second treatise . preface . answer to giffords preface . dangerous positions , &c. l. . c. . the second answer for communicating , p. . printed by john windet , a. d. . page . answer to ainsworth , p. . page . preface to the read●r , p. . brownists apology , p. . a. d. . a defence of the churches and ministry of england , middleburgh , p. . a. d. . barrow's observations on gifford's last reply , n. . p. . brownists apol. p. . brownists apology , p . barrow , ib. barrow's refutation of giffard . preface to the reader . sum of the causes of separation . ibid. brownists apology , p. , , . ainsworth's counter-poyson , p. . ib. p. . t. cs. letter to harrison against separation , in defence of the admonition to the followers of brown p. , . page . page . page . counterpoyson , p. . ball against can , p. . giffard's answer to the brownists , p. . grave confutation , &c. p. , , . ●rav●con●utation , &c. ● . , , . ibid. pall against can. part. . p. . giffard's plain declaration , &c. preface . answ. to the brown. p. , . mr. arthur hildershams letter against separation , sect. . highly commended by mr. j. cotton , in his preface before his commentaries , on john. i● . sect. c , , . v. bradshaw's answer to johnson . hildershams letter , sect. . grave confutation , &c. p. . giffard's answer to the ●rownists , p. . grave confutation , &c. p. . acts. , , , . grave confutation , &c. p. . . giffard's answer , p. . , , , . grave confutation , &c. p. . bradshaw's answer to johnson , p. . ed. . page . stephen offwoo● 's adve●tisement to jo●n delecluse and h. may , p. , . defence of the admon . to the followers of brown , p. . page . page . page . page . page . pag. , &c. counterpoyson p. . cotton's answ. to r. will●●ms , p. . offwood's advertisement , p. . cotton's answer to r. williams p. . ib. clifton's advertisement , p. . . way of congregational churches cleared , p. . profane schism of the brownists , p. . ib. ch . . p. . page . offwood's advertisement , p. . schism of the browni●s , p. . way of congregational churches , p. . see smith's reasons in b●nard against br●●nists , ca●led p●ain evidences , p. , , . smith's ep. to the character . cotton's way cleare● , p. . page . page . page . r. williams answer to cotton 's 〈◊〉 . ● . page . page . cotton's answer to williams , p. , . apologet. narrative , p. , . anatomy of independency , p. , , , &c. answer to the antapologia p. . disswasive from the errors of the times , p. ▪ anatomy of independ . p. . anatomy of independ . p. . duply to m. s. p. . arguments of the scotch commiss . p. , . serm. nov. . . serm. before the com. feb. . . serm. before the lord mayor , jan. . . serm. before the parliament , sept. . . observations and annotations on the apologetical narration , p. . sermon at st. paul's , feb. . . p. . narrative of new-england , &c. postscript , p. . baylies disswasive , p. . papers for accommod . p. . baxter's answer , p. . dr. o. p. . mischief of impos . p. , , . ●etter out of the country , p. ● . answ. to my sermon , p. . giffard's answer to the brownists , p. . barrow against giffard , p. . page , . confut. of the brown. p. . page ● ▪ page . the second quaere . answer to letter , p. . vnreasonableness of separation , p. . answer to serm. p. . defence of the cure of divisions , p. . cassand . anglic. p. . page ▪ vindication of non conformists , p. , . page . answ. to serm. p. . defence of the cure of divisions , p. . restor of sutton , p. . page . mischief of imposition . preface . iacob against johnson , p. , , , , , , , , , , , , . bradshaw's answer to johnson's third reason sect. . giffard against brow : p. , , ● . counterpoyson , p. . , , , . letter out of the country , p. . mischief of imposition . preface . rector of sutton , &c. p. . answ. to let. p. . ans. to letter , p . answer to sermon , p. . cure of divis . p. . sacrileg . desertion , p. . &c. first plea , sect. . p. ● . page . answ. to serm p. . plea for peace , p. . letter out of the country , &c. p. . dr. o. vindication , &c. p. . mischief of impositions , &c. p. . mischief of impositions , p. . sacrileg . de ●ertion , p. . defence of the cure of divis. introd . p. . ibid. p. . answ. p. . dr. o. vindicat . p. , christian directory , part . p. , . sacrileg . desert , p. , &c. cure of divis . p. . answ. to my letter ; p. . apology of the brownists , n. . chap. . order of congregational churches , n. . irenic . c. . answ. to letter , p. . sacrileg . desert , p. . answ. p. . answer to my sermon , p. . sacrileg . desert . p. . true way of concord , ch. . answ. p , . plea for peace , p. . brownis●s apology , sect. . mischief of imposit . preface . dr. o's . vindic . p. . answ. p. . plea for peace , p. . cure of divisions , direct . . sacrileg . desert . p. . ball against can , p. , , , &c. pag. , , . trial of new church way , p. . christian direct . part. . p. . answ. p. . cure of divis . p. . answ. p. . answ. p. . plea for peace , p. . sacrileg . desert . p. . answer to serm. p. . plea for peace , p. . , , . answ. to sacril . desertion , p. . answ. p. . answ. p. . answ. p. ● . answ. p. . plea for peace , p. . answ. p. . kings . . mischief of impos . preface . rector of sutton &c. p. . plea , p. . answ. p. . plea , p. , . ibid. answ. p. . plea , p. . preface to defence of his cure , p. . plea , p. . answ. p. . plea , p. . rector of su●to● &c. p. . answ. p. . mischief of impos . p. . tract of schism , p. . mischief of impos . p. , . mischief of impos . p. . answ. p. . , . answ. p. . answ. , , , . answ. p. . answ. p. . page . page . page . mischief of impos . p. . page . page . page . mischief of impos . p. . answ. p. . rom. . . mischief of impos . p. . ibid. plea. p. . mischief of impos . p , . answ. p. . trial of grounds of separation . chap. . p. . robinson's treatise , p. . ainsworth's consider . examin'd , p. . john , , . matt. . . luk. , . vindication of non-conform●ts . p. , . act. . . phil. ▪ . . . act. . . rector of sutton , p. , . gal. . . vindication of non-conformists , p. . page . page , page . ▪ . act. , . page , . letter cut of the country , p. . mischief of imposit . p. , . de baptismo , ●c , donat . l. . c , , . 〈…〉 vindicat. p. . instit. l. . c. . n. . numb . . numb . . numb . , , , . numb . . numb . . cap. . n. , , , , , . numb . , , , . apology , c. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . de secess . ab eccles. rom. &c , p. . prejuges legitimes contre les calvinistes . claude sa defence de la reformation . . part . pajon examen du livre , &c. . partie . turretini disput . . de necessariâ secessione ab ecclesiâ . rom. sect. . le blanc . theses de reunione . praefat. ad confess . helot . & art . , . consens . polon . p. . confess . august . art . . confess . argent . c. . croc. de ecc●es unit . & schism . c. . ● . . comment . de aug. confess . . c. . p. . c. . page . zanch. . de . re● . p. . amyrald . de secess . ab eccl. rom. deque pace cum evangel . constit . p. . hornbeck de consociat . evang. sect. . n. . sencent . d. daven . p. . iren●c . tract . pror . p. . vindication of non-conf●rmists , p. . . cyprian . ad anton. ep. . n. . euseb. l. . c. . pacian . epist . . ad sempron . cyprian . ep●st . , . 〈◊〉 unit . eccl . de latsis . euseb. l. . c. . theod. haeret , fab , l . . epiph. haer . . cyprian . de vnit. eccl. n. , , &c. epiph. haer . . theod. l. . c. . epiph. haer . . sect. . rector of sutton , &c. p. . cotton 's answer to r. williams p. . mischief of imposit . in the preface . aug. c. ep. parmen . l. . c. . l. . c. , , . l. . c. . de bapt . c. donat. l. . c. crescon . l. . c. . aug. ep. . & . col● at . . carthag . n. . mischief of imposi●ions in the preface . collat. . carthag . n. . aug 〈…〉 ● . c. parmen . l. . c. . l. . c. . cure of divisions , direct . . defence of the cure , p. . christian dire●tory , p. , &c. m●schief of impos . sect. . christian directory , p. . defence of his cure , except . p , . heb. . . act. . . cor. . . cor , . . ephes. . , , . joh● . . iren. l. . c. . chrysost in . eph. . p. ● , cor. . . . st. john . matt. . . cor. . . heb. . . . thess. . . . gal. . . . . tit. . . john . revel . . . . a●t . . . phil. . . rom. . ▪ 〈…〉 , . cor. . . vers. . , 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . p. . serm. p. . vindic p. . cotton's way of congregati●nal churches cleared , p. , . cyprian l. . ep. . in the late edit . ep. . l. . . ep. . l. . ep. . ep. . l. . ep. . ep. . ep. . euseb. l. . c. . phot. nomo-can . tit . . c. . l. . ep. . ep. . l. . . ep. . l. . ep. . ep. . l. . ep. . ep. . l. . ep. . ep. . ep. . ep. . ep. . ep. . ep. . ep. . ep. . ep. . ep. . ep. . ep. . ep. . ep. . ep. . ep. . ep. . ep. . ep. . moses and aaron , p. . vindic. p. . act. . . thess. . . cor. . . act. . . cor. . . gal. . . cor. . . act. . . . cor. . . vindic. p. . p. ● . orig. c. cels. l. . act. . . act. . . s●t . l. . thucyd. l. . & l. . p. . act. . . s●● . l. . eustar . ad il. ● . euseb. l. . c. . epiph. haer . . p. . evangel . love. p. . p. . p. . p. . reasons against the instances , &c. p. . p. . p. . true and onely way of concord . p iii. premonition to the true way of concord . plea for peace , p. . church-history . p. . p. . church-history , p. . answ. to serm. p. . aug. de bapt. l. . c. . cypt. ep. . n. . cypr. ep. . n. , . ep. . n. . ep. . n. . de vnit. eccl. n. , . s. august . ep. . n. e. ep. . collat. carthage . aug. ep. . victor vitens . l. . a aug. serm. . . . de diversis . b serm. . . de diversis . c de divers . . d . de temp. * vict. l. . f . de temp. g . de temp. h . de divers . victor vit. l. . collat. . carthage n. . optat. l. . cod. eccl. afric . c. . c. , . c. . c. . c. . church history , p. . de curd pro mortuis c. . aug. ep. . aug. ep. . ep. . ep. . ep. ad quodvultdeum ante lib. de haeres . s. cyprian . ep. . n. . ep. . n. . ep. . n. . victor vit. l. . epiph. haer . . n. . athanas. ap. p. . . haeres . . n. . . n. . abridgment of chur. hist. p. . athanas. ap. p. . euseb. l. . c. . vetus orbis descript . p. . amm. marc. l. . euseb. l. . c. . athan. apol. p. . theodor. ep. . treatise of episcopacy , p. . critic . sacr. l. . c. . theod. ep. . ep. . sirmond . praef. ad theod. opera . ptolem. l. . c. . strab. l. . plin. l. . c. . amm. marcel . l. . notitiae antiq . append. ad car. à s. paulo , p. . theodor. ep. . theodor. ep. , . ep. . ep. . religios . hist. vit. symeon . p. . ep. . ep. . vita jacobi jun. p. . , &c. , , , , , . treatise of episcopacy , part . p ▪ , . theod. hist. l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. ▪ l. . c. . answ. to serm. p. . p. . christian directory . eccles. cases , q. . p. . can. . & . defence of the answer to the admonit . p. . p. . p. . perpetual government of christ's church . ch . . p. . ch . p. . synod of new-england concerning the subject of baptism , &c. . baxter of confirmation , p. . p. , . p. . p. . p. . rubrick before communion . defence of the plea. p. . epist. . post collat . c. donat. c. . spalat . l. . c. . albaspin . l. . c. . defence of the plea. p. , . de t●mp●re serm. ● . of confirmation . p. , &c. his majesties final answer to the divines at newport , n. . calvin . ep. . bez. ep. . codex eccles . afric . c. , , , . c. . c. . p. . p. . plea for peace , p. . answ. serm. socr. l. . c. . soz. l. . c. . serm. p. . vindicat. of non-conform . p. . p. . p. . p. . williams his answer to cotton's letter , p. . cottons answer to r ▪ williams , p. . 〈…〉 p. . cobbet's answer to cla●ks n●rrative , p. , . synod of new-england . p. . defence of the synod , p. ● . answ. p. , . difference between the power of the magistrates and church past●●rs , ●● . p. 〈◊〉 , . 〈…〉 〈…〉 p. , , . hudson of the church . p. . can. . christian directory . eccl. cases q. ● . p. . answer to my sermon , p. . anws . p . p. . mischief of impos . p. . ibid. p. . p. . p. . letter out of the country , p. . p. . p. . part . rect●r of sutton , &c. p. ● . vindication , &c. p. ● . answ. p. , . mischief of 〈◊〉 , preface . letter out of the country , p. . vindicat. p. . tim. . , , . act. l. . act. . , . act. . . act. . . . . . . tim. . , . act. ● . . act. . . clement . epist. p. , , , . answ. p. . cypr. epist. . orig. hom . in levit. euseb. de vit. const. l. . c. . greg. naz. orat. . evagr. l. . c. . socr. l. . c. . soz. l. . c. . socr. l. . c. , . ambros. ep. . socr. l. . c. . soz. l. . c. . socr. l. . c. . l. . c. . amm. marc. l. . answ. p. . de sacerd. l. . hieron . adversus iovin . in ezek. c. . orig in num. hom . . hieron . epist. ad evagr. ecc●ellens . de orig. eccl. alex. c. . ambros. comment . in eph. euseb. l. . c. . c. . aug. ep . . socr. l. . c. . concil . n●cen . c. . concil . antioch . c. . c. . socr. l. . c. . basil. ep. . concil . chalced . act. . novell . justin . , . c. de episc. lex . . can. laod. c. . aug. ep. . conc. nic. . c. . concil . . c. . soz. l. . c. . socr. l. . c. , . c. . c. . c. . soz. l. . c. . l. . c. . socr. l. . c. . pallad . vit. chrys. p. . so●r . l. . c. . concil . aurelian . a. d. . v. concil . tarracon . a. d. . can. . concil . tolet. . c. . & ibi loaisam . grati. dist. . concil . vernense can. . sirmond . append. ad to. . concil . gall. lup. ferrariens . ep. , , . v. grotii piet. p. . walsingh . in edw. . p. . c. si quis . cod de sacros . eccles. nov. . nov. . c. . matt. paris ad a. . joh. saris● . ep. . & . epist. . rittershus . ad novell . p. . c. . n. , . treatise of episcop . p. . p . mischief of impositi●ns , p. . vindic. of non-conf . p. . dr. falkner's vindication of liturgies , . vindication , p. . answ. p. . mischief of impos . p. . matt. . . , . exercit. on matt. . , . p. , . p. . p. . e●ce . pta g●mar . c. . ● . ma●k . . chagiga c. . § ult . erub i● f. . bellarm. de effectu sacra . l. . c. . sect. tertia . bell. de cultu sanct. l. . c. . § nota. benedict . salis ad aquam lustral . pastoral . de sacr. bap. azor. instit. moral . l. . c. . greg. de valent . to. . disp . . q. . puncto . marsil . columnae hydragiologia . bell. de imag. l. . c. . thyrae . de locis infest . p. . c. . thesaur . cathol . to. . l. . art . . fresh suit against cerem . p. . p. . cassand . consult . art . . & . to. . disp . . q. . p. . preface to the common-prayer . can. . preface to common prayer . 〈…〉 plea for peace , p. , . defence of the plea , p. ● . plea 〈…〉 p. . christian directory . ecclesiastical cases , q. . defence of the plea , p. . defence of the plea , p. . concil . florent . decret . vnion . concil . trident. sess. . can. . gamachae sum. theol. to. . qu. . c. . lu●o de sacram . disp . . sect. . n . ysambert . de sacram. ad . qu. . disp . art . . clypeus theolog. thomist . to. . disp . . art . . § . christian directory eccles. cases q. . p. . mischief of imposit . preface . §. . . answer to serm. p. , . plea for peace , p. , . ca● . . aug. 〈◊〉 r●ig . c. ● . 〈…〉 〈…〉 de constit. c. quia incontinent . ipso facto . can. . plea for pea●e p. ●● . dis●ipl . de france , des minist . art . . calvin . epist. 〈◊〉 . p. . p. . 〈…〉 . c. . §. . letter out of the country , p. , , &c. answ. p. . . disputations of church gov. p. ● . mischief of impos . p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . p. . p. . answ. to cotton's letter . bloody tenent . defence of the cure of divis. p . 〈…〉 . to magist●a●es power , ● . 〈◊〉 . first principles of new england by i. mather , . §. . p. . p. . t. c. 's first answer to w●itg . p. ● . answ. p. . plea for peace , p. . ● . defence of his plea. p. . plea for peace , p. . ratio discip. fratr . c. . sect. . def. of the plea. p. . aug. ep . . chrysost. in psal. . tert●l . de baptismo . c. . serm. . de tempore . de peccat . meritis & remiss . l. . c. . preface to right to sacraments . conferen●● first part. §. . mischief of impos . p. , , . 〈…〉 to the 〈…〉 . confe●●o fid●i claudii regis aethiopiae . §. . mischief of 〈…〉 . mischief o● impo● . ● . 〈◊〉 . notes for div a -e * c●lv . edit . amstel . ●om . p. . * bez. contra sarrav . ad cap . art . . pag. ● edit . fran●o● . ann . ● calvin ●pera edit . 〈…〉 . p. ● . 〈…〉 cap. . art . . pag. 〈◊〉 edit . 〈◊〉 anno . a sermon preached at white-hall, february the th, / being the first friday in lent / by edw. stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached at white-hall, february the th, / being the first friday in lent / by edw. stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . p. printed for henry mortlock..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t. -- luke xv, -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - rachel losh sampled and proofread - rachel losh text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached at white-hall , february the th , / . being the first friday in lent . by edw. stillingfleet , d.d. dean of st. paul's , and chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london , printed for henry mortlock , at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . mdclxxxvi . st. luke xv . . i will arise and go to my father , and will say to him , father , i have sinned against heaven and before thee . in the foregoing verse , we find the prodigal son so far awakened and come to himself , as to be sensible of the miserable condition he had brought himself into by his own folly and wickedness . but , before he came to this , there is a remarkable turn in the course of his life , set down by our saviour in the beginning of this excellent parable . for , he was first very impatient of being under the wise conduct of his father , and thought he could manage his own affairs far more to his contentment and satisfaction , if he were but permitted to use his liberty , and were not so strictly tyed up to the grave and formal methods of living , observed and required in his father's house . which might pass for wisdom in age , and be agreeable enough to such whose life and vigour were decayed ; and who were now to maintain their authority over their children by seeming to be so much wiser than they : but it is a rare thing for youth and age to agree in the opinion of wisedom : for it is not the care , the experience , the judgment of a wise and tender father , that can allay the heats , or calm the passions , or over-rule the violent inclinations of youth ; but whatever is cost them afterwards , some will be still trying the experiment , whether it doth not more conduce to the happiness of life to pursue their own fancies and designs , than to hearken to another's directions ( though a father's ) whose circumstances are so much different from their own . thus our blessed saviour represents in the parable this young prodigal , as weary of being rich and easie at home , and fond of seeing the pleasures of the world : and therefore nothing would satisfie him unless he were intrusted with the stock which was intended for him , that he might shew the difference between his father's conduct and his own . and this very soon appeared ; for this hopefull manager had not been long abroad , but he wasted his substance with riotous living . and to make him the more sensible of his folly , there happened a more than ordinary scarcity , which made his low and exhausted condition more uneasie to him . but the sense of shame was yet greater with him than that of his folly ; and whatever shifts he underwent , he would by no means yet think of returning home ; but rather chose to submit to the meanest and basest employment in hopes to avoid the necessity of it . but at last , reason and consideration began to work upon him , which is called , his coming to himself : and then he takes up a resolution to go home to his father , and to throw himself at his feet , to confess his fault ingenuously and freely , and to beg pardon for his former folly , in hopes of forgiveness and reconciliation . i will arise and go to my father , and say to him , father , i have sinned against heaven , and before thee . under this parable , our saviour sets forth the state of a sinner , ( . ) in his wilfull degeneracy from god , his father , both by creation and providence ; his uneasiness under his just and holy laws ; his impatience of being restrained by them ; his casting off the bonds of duty to him ; and running into all kind of disorders without regard to god , or his own soul. ( . ) in the dissatisfaction he found in his evil courses ; being very much disappointed in the great expectations he had in the pleasures of sin ; wasting his health , interest , reputation , estate , and above all , the peace and tranquillity of his mind , which was more valuable than any other delight whatsoever , and he now found impossible to be enjoy'd in a course of rebellion against his heavenly father . ( . ) in the conviction of his folly upon due consideration of what he had done ; which is emphatically called coming to himself ; having before acted so much below himself , and against himself ; unworthy of the relation he stands in to god ; of those faculties he had bestow'd upon him ; and of those hopes and expectations he might have had from him either as to this or another world. ( . ) in the resolution he takes upon this conviction , no longer to delay his purpose of repenting and returning home , but to embrace the present opportunity of doing it freely , heartily and ingenuously , i will arise and go to my father , &c. having formerly in this place , and on a like occasion considered the prodigal son 's coming to himself , i shall now pursue the method of his repentance in the resolution he here takes to arise and go to his father , &c. and therein i shall enquire into these things , i. what grounds a sinner hath to incourage him to repent ; or to form such a resolution in his mind that he will arise and go to his father , when he knows he hath so much provoked and offended him . ii. how necessary it is in order to true repentance to form a fixed and steady resolution to go through with it , i will arise and go , &c. first , what grounds a sinner hath to incourage him to repent ; or to make application to his father in order to forgiveness , since he is convinced he hath so justly offended him . for , if we consider the circumstances here mention'd , he had no such reason to hope to be receiv'd into favour upon such easie terms , as are here expressed ; for , ( . ) he had wilfully forsaken his father's house , without any just cause of complaint of and hard usage there . ( . ) he had embraced such a course of life , which he knew was displeasing to him , living riotously and disorderly , in a way contrary to his will. ( . ) he never thought of returning home , till mere necessity forced him ; till hunger and poverty made him come to himself . and what could be more disobliging to a father , than such circumstances as these ? ( . ) his father never forced him from home , nor made his condition uneasie there . our saviour here represents almighty god , as dealing with mankind like a tender and indulgent father , and not like a severe and hard master ; his laws being intended for our good , and not for his own advantage . there is no duty of ours towards god , or our selves , or others , but is founded on this relation to god as a father to mankind . nothing can be more reasonable in general than that the father should order and direct his children , and give such rules which are fitting for them to observe ; and if we examine the particular laws of nature , or the dictates of reason as to good and evil , we shall find them very agreeable to god's paternal government . what is the duty of prayer to god , but asking daily blessing of our heavenly father ? what is our thanksgiving , but a solemn owning his paternal care and bounty towards us ? and in these two , the main duties of natural religion consist . the neglect whereof , is such a disrespect to our heavenly father , as is not consistent with our believing him to be so . for , as god himself argues in the prophet , a son honoureth his father , and a servant his master : if then i be a father , where is mine honour ? and if i be a master , where is my fear ? god was a father by the right of creation and providence : but he was a master to the jews in respect of the bondage of the law ; and as there was a spirit of bondage on that account in them , which inclined them to a more servile fear ; so there ought to have been a natural spirit of adoption toward god as their supreme creatour and father ; which should excite all men to such a dutifull love , such a reverential esteem , such a mixture of awe and kindness as is in children towards their parents . yea , it ought to be much greater than that can be supposed ; because the distance is infinite between god and us ; and our dependence more immediate and necessary ; and there is in him a concurrence of all perfections , which may cause in us the highest esteem , and the humblest adoration . there is an unquestionable duty owing by children to their earthly parents , but how much rather ( saith the apostle ) ought we to be in subjection to the father of spirits ? the fathers of our flesh may be very kind , but not wise in their love ; or wise and not so kind ; or they may be both wise and kind , but not able to help their children . they may love and pity , and pray for them , when they are in misery , or sickness and pain , but after all , they are unable to relieve them ; for the most indulgent father , when his bowels yearn , and his heart is ready to break at the sight of a child lying under the agonies of death , is not able to give a moments respite to the terrible pangs , which he can neither behold nor abate . but our heavenly father hath not onely infinite wisdom , but infinite kindness and power ; and where all these are joined together , what honour , what love , what fear is due unto him ! although there be defects in their parents , yet children are still bound to obey them , and to shew a mighty regard and reverence towards them ; but here it is so much otherwise , that if we could conceive our selves without this relation to god , yet his perfections are so many , so great , so infinite , as to deserve and require our utmost veneration . the prodigal son could then have no reason to complain of the duty which he owed to his father . and was it not fit for him to appoint the orders of his family , and to expect that his children should behave themselves therein , as became the relation they stood in to himself and to one another ? that they should have a decent regard to themselves in sobriety , temperance , command of their passions , and care of their words ; that they should behave themselves towards their brethren with sincerity , kindness and justice ; which comprehend all the duties we owe to one another ? and what now was there in all this , that the prodigal could have any cause to complain of , or that should make his father's house so uneasie to him ? but his father had just cause to be provoked , when his wise counsels , and prudent care , and constant kindness , and righteous government were so much slighted and despised by a disobedient and ungratefull son ; who had so little sense of his duty or his interest as to be weary of being so well at home , and therefore impatiently desiring to find out new methods of living well , as he then thought , when the best orders of his father's family were become so displeasing to him . ( . ) but what were these new and fine contrivances for his own happiness ? he began to suspect his wife father did not allow his children liberty enough at home , and that he concealed from him the great mystery of the happiness of life , and therefore concluded , that if he did give way to those desires which he found to be natural , but his father thought unreasonable , he should enjoy much more pleasure and satisfaction than he did at home . and being resolved upon this , he gives way to those inclinations he found strongest in himself , denies himself no pleasures of life , accounts vertue but a name which sowre and morose persons put upon their own humours ; and religion but a device for fools to deceive themselves , and knaves to deceive others by . and so he throws off all checks and restraints upon himself , and never regards the good or evil of what he doeth , for his lusts are his laws , and the satisfaction of them he now looks upon as the onely real happiness of mankind . and could any thing be supposed more provoking to his heavenly father than such a wicked and dissolute way of living ? so contrary to his father's will , to his own reason , conscience , interest , reputation ; and which soon brought him to shame and misery ? ( . ) but that which added yet more to the height of the provocation was , that he did not think of returning home to his father , upon the first apprehension of his own folly ; but he resolved to undergo any difficulty , and submit to any hardship , rather than doe what was necessary in order to reconciliation with his father . how hard a matter then is it to bring an habitual sinner to repentance ! it is not easie to bring him to any due and serious conviction of the evil of his doings ; but it is far more difficult to change the inward disposition of the mind , and to alter all the great designs and pleasures of life . it is but a mean notion of repentance which is apt to prevail in the world , as though it implied no more than some acts of contrition for greater sins , when the habit and disposition remain the same . but true repentance is the turn of the whole soul from the love , as well as the practice of sin ; and this is not a thing to be done easily or suddenly ; a sinner will bear a great many checks and reproofs of conscience before he will part with his beloved sins ; he will struggle a great while with himself ; and endure many conflicts between an awaken'd conscience and rooted lnclinations before the penitent sinner can assure himself that his repentance hath had its due and effectual operation upon him . for we see here nothing but extremity brought the prodigal to himself , and made him at last to resolve to arise and go to his father , &c. as themistocles said of the people of athens , they did by him , as men commonly doe by a great tree , they run to it for shelter in a storm , but care not how they use it another time ; that is too true of sinners with respect to god ; when they can make a shift for themselves any other way , they despise religion ; and make god their refuge onely at a day of extremity , but not their choice , when their conditions please them . but when the prodigal son had so slighted his father , broken his commands , despised the advantages he had at home , and was so hardly brought to think of returning thither , how came he now to be so incouraged in his mind to arise and go to his father , and confess his fault with hopes of being forgiven after all this ? we find no other account here given , but that he was his father , however he had offended him ; and therefore he was resolved he would arise and go to his father ; as though there were charms and force enough in that word to answer all discouragements . which being an argument taken from the bowels of pity and compassion which a father hath towards a relenting child , we must enquire , how far this will hold with respect to god , who is so infinitely above all the fond passions of humane nature , that it is a diminution to his glory and majesty to be thought like to mankind ; and therefore his thoughts and ways are said to be as far above ours as the heavens are above the earth ? to clear this , we are to consider , not onely that our blessed saviour doth here lay the force and weight of the parable upon the tenderness of a father to his son ; but that he elsewhere argues from it in such a manner as to convince us that god hath far greater pity and compassion towards mankind when they make due applications to him , than fathers can have towards their children even when they ask for necessary sustenance . what man is there of you , whom if his son ask bread , will he give him a stone ? or , if he ask a fish , will he give him a serpent ? if ye then being evil know how to give good gifts unto your children , how much more shall your father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him ? there have been philosophers so severe against the passions of humane nature , that they would not allow any pity or commiseration towards others , whatever their condition or relation were , but onely acting according to reason in supplying their wants . but the christian religion doth far more reasonably allow such passions in mankind as dispose them to doe good to others , by fixing such an impression on their minds of others misery as doth excite them to doe what is fitting for their ease and support . and compassion is not , as some imagine , such a mean and selfish passion , as doth arise onely from the apprehension that we may suffer the same things our selves , which we pity others for ; but it is a generous sense of what others feel joined with a readiness to help them according to our power . and in this sense , our saviour not onely allows it in fathers towards children , but looks on it as necessary in humane nature in order to the good and advantage of mankind ; and therefore himself taking our nature upon him is said to be touched with the feeling of our infirmities ; and to have compassion on the ignorant , and on them that are out of the way . but although this be allowable in humane nature , how can such a thing as compassion be attributed to the divine nature which is uncapable of such impressions and motions , which we are subject to ? and yet the scripture is very full and clear in attributing pity and compassion to almighty god with respect to his creatures . the psalmist saith , the lord is full of compassion and mercy ; long-suffering , and of great goodness . st. james saith , he is very pitifull , and of tender mercy . and in that wonderfull appearance to moses , when god himself declared his own attributes , the greatest part consists of his kindness and mercy towards mankind ; the lord god , mercifull and gratious , long-suffering , and abundant in goodness and truth , keeping mercy for thousands , forgiving iniquity , transgression and sin . and the psalmist useth the very same similitude of a father's pity to his children , like as a father pitieth his children , so the lord pitieth them that fear him . and when the prophet speaks of god's thoughts and ways being so much above man's , it is for this end to prove thereby that god may shew more pity to mankind , than they find in their hearts to shew to one another . let him return unto the lord , and he will have mercy upon him ; and to our god , for he will abundantly pardon ; for my thoughts are not your thoughts , &c. but setting aside all this , the whole scheme of the gospel is drawn upon the supposition of god's pity and compassion towards penitent sinners ; which is the reason our saviour insists so much on the proof of it in this whole chapter . wherein we not onely reade of joy in heaven at the repentance of a sinner ; but the compassion of god almighty towards a penitent sinner is set forth with all the tenderness of an indulgent father running into the embraces of his son , when he saw him at a distance coming towards him . what now is the meaning of all this ? are we to conceive of god as one like to our selves , who either do not see faults in those we love ; or do not hate them , as we should do ; or are too apt to pass them over ; or are at first , it may be , apt to be angry upon a slight provocation , and then as easily made friends upon as little reason as we were made angry ? but none of these things ought to enter into our minds concerning god with respect to the follies of mankind . and in this case , if we will form in our minds right and true conceptions of the divine nature ( as we ought to doe ) we must have a great care lest we attribute any thing to god , which looks like weakness and imperfection , as the motions and changes of passions do ; therefore to understand his pity and compassion , and reconciliation to penitent sinners , we must first know what his anger and displeasure against sinners mean. some think that epicurus did in earnest believe a god , but he was therefore forced to deny providence , because he could not conceive that the government of the world could be managed without such resentments as were inconsistent with the complete happiness of the divne being ; and therefore he rather chose to make him careless and easie , than active and liable to passion . the stoicks attributed to god all that was good and kind and obliging ; but would by no means endure that ever he should be said to be angry or displeased ; which doctrine did in effect overthrow providence with respect to moral actions , as much as the epicureans . for if god did not regard the difference of mens actions , but was equally kind to them whether they did good or evil , such a providence would have as little influence on mens lives as if there were none at all . we must then suppose , if we would uphold religion and morality in the world , not onely that there is a providence , but that god hath a different regard to men according to the good or evil of their actions . the regard he hath to men for being good and doing good is called his love , his kindness , his good-will , his grace and favour ; that which he hath to things that are evil is called his hatred ; that which he hath to persons for doing evil is his anger , wrath , displeasure , indignation ; according to the different nature and circumstances of their evil actions . but in order to the preventing any false or mean apprehensions of the divine nature , when the passions of mankind are attributed to it , we must consider these two things ; ( . ) that we must by no means attribute to god any thing that is unreasonable in our selves ; such are all irregular motions , which we call violent passions , arising from surprise , mistake , inadvertency , weakness , or corrupt inclination . but setting all these aside , the original passions of mankind , which are agreeable to reason , are no other than what arise from an inclination to what we judge to be good , and an aversion from what we apprehend to be evil ; which holds as to the divine nature . ( . ) that there is an observable difference in the very nature of some passions , which imply a repugnancy in themselves to the divine perfections , which others do not . for love and kindness , and joy , and inward satisfaction have nothing in them supposing their object good , but what agrees with the divine nature ; but the passions contrary to these , as envy , ill-will and revenge are not onely repugnant as passions , but in their own nature ; for god cannot envy the good of his creatures , nor bear ill-will to them as such , nor take pleasure in their torments . and of this nature anger properly taken is , as it doth imply a present disorder and disturbance within , from the apprehension of some injury done or intended , with a desire of revenge on those who doe it ; all which is inconsistent with the necessary perfections of god ; for they argue meanness , imperfection and mutability . we must therefore fix on such a notion of anger as becomes the almighty wisdom and goodness ; and that lies in , ( . ) a displeasure against the sinner on the account of his sins ; for god cannot have any complacency in those who displease him , as all sinners do , whether they design it or not . ( . ) a will to punish sinners according to their demerits ; which being according to the rules of wisdom and righteous government , cannot be said to argue an indecent passion . ( . ) the actual execution of his justice upon great provocations . and so god is said to be angry when he punishes ; especially when he doeth it suddenly and severely ; as men in their passion are wont to doe . but whatever god doeth in this kind , he doth it with the wisdom and temper of a judge , and not with the fury or passion of an angry being . and there is nothing in all this unbecoming the divine nature , but very agreeable thereto . and this is all which in strictness of reason is understood by god's being angry with mankind . for we must never imagine that god acts according to sudden heats and passions ; but whatever he doth is according to the counsels of infinite wisdom and goodness . i do not deny that the scripture doth represent anger in god as if it were a passion raised upon great provocation , and capable of being laid by submission and true repentance . thence we read , of god's wrath waxing hot , of his anger kindling against his people , and his turning away from his fierce anger , and many such expressions ; but so we read of the fire of his indignation , the sword of his wrath , the stretching forth of his hand ; which all grant are not to be literally understood . lf then in these expressions , the perfections of the divine nature are to be our rule , according to which we must interpret them , because the literal sense implies an incongruity to the divine perfections which are all wholly spiritual ; then from the same reason we must remove all perturbations from it which are as inconsistent with the absolute perfection of it , as eyes and ears and hands and feet are , although they are all mention'd in scripture . from whence we justly infer , that there is a wonderfull condescention to the ordinary capacities and common apprehensions of mankind in the language of scripture , concerning the divine nature , which makes deeper impressions on meaner understandings , and those who are ▪ of finer thoughts will see cause to attribute onely such a sense of things relating to god , as is consistent with his infinite and divine perfections . but what now shall we say to this tenderness and compassion of god towards penitent sinners ? can he be moved by our trouble and sorrow and acts of contrition for our sins ? if we be righteous what doth it profit the almighty ? and if we be evil , how can it hurt him ? and if when we have sinned , we repent , we doe no more than is fitting for us ; but why should we imagine the great and wise god should have compassion upon us , when we become sensible of our own folly ? for when we sin against god , wilfully , deliberately , knowingly , habitually , we doe what lies in us to provoke him to wrath and indignation against us ; we reject his wise government , we slight his righteous laws , we prefer the pleasing our corrupt inclinations and sensual lusts before our heavenly father . and what can be more provoking to him than to be so despised by one who had his being and all the comforts of life from him ? suppose now such a disobedient , rebellious son , as here in the parable , be made sensible of his folly , is his father bound to receive him ? was it not his own choice to go from him ? if he hath suffered by his folly , he may thank himself for it ; and if his father lets him alone in it , he hath no cause to complain . but such was the tenderness of the father towards his repenting son , that he shew'd the greatest compassion imaginable ; for he did not stay at home expecting his son 's solemn submission before his family , but he ran towards him , and fell upon his neck , and kissed him . what conceptions now ought we to have of god's compassion towards penitent sinners answerable to all this ? this i shall endeavour to clear in these particulars . ( . ) that god's hatred is not primarily against persons who are his creatures ; but against that which is evil , which is none of his making ; and against persons onely so far as they are corrupted with evil. thou lovest righteousness , and hatest wickedness , saith the psalmist . god hates nothing for its own sake , but sin ; and for the sake of that he hates all workers of iniquity . ( . ) there may be good-will towards the person of a sinner at the same time when god discovers the hatred of his sins . i do not say , god takes any pleasure in him while he goes on in sin , for that is against the eternal rules of righteousness in god ; but that he may have so much good-will towards him , as to design to reduce him from his evil ways . and this every father finds in himself towards a disobedient son ; while he hates his evil courses , yet he would make use of the best methods to bring him to himself , and to his duty . and upon this is grounded that love and kindness of god towards mankind , in sending his son to be our saviour , and all the promises and invitations which are made to sinners in the doctrine of the gospel . ( . ) it is very agreeable to infinite wisdom and goodness for god to shew himself full of pity and compassion towards penitent sinners , i. e. so as to forgive them their former sins , and to receive them into his favour . for pity and compassion in god is to be judged , not according to the inward motions we find in our selves , but according to these two things . ( . ) a readiness to doe good to his creatures according to their necessities . which being in general , is his bounty and goodness ; but considered with respect to the persons of sinners , it is his clemency , or readiness to forgive ; and with respect to the punishment they deserve by their sins , it is his mercy and pity : which in us is aegritudo ex miseriâ alterius , and therefore called misericordia , because the heart is touched with the sense of another's misery ; but we are not so to apprehend it in god ; but that such is the goodness of god towards repenting sinners , that he is as willing to shew mercy as they are to repent . ( . ) god's pity and compassion lies in the proper effects of it ; which here in the case of the prodigal were , passing by his former extravagances , and receiving him into as much favour as if he had not gone astray . this is my son was dead , and is alive again ; was lost , and is found . those who think , they stand not in need of so much pardoning mercy as others do , are apt to repine at the favour shew'd to great sinners when they repent ; and therefore the elder brother could not bear the expressing so much kindness towards such a disobedient son , though now a penitent . but that there is nothing disagreeing to infinite wisdom and goodness in such compassion towards penitent sinners , will more fully appear , if we consider , ( . ) that god is not bound to deal with sinners according to the utmost rigour and severity of his justice . because he is under no fatal necessity ; no superiour law ; and therefore may act freely in the forgiving offenders as seems best to his infinite wisdom . the whole race of mankind is a perpetual evidence that god doth not act according to the strictness of his justice , for if he had dealt with them after their sins , or rewarded them according to their iniquities ; their spirits would have failed before him , and the souls which he had made ; they had been long since destroy'd from the face of the earth , and not suffer'd to continue in their provocations . but god hath not onely forborn sinners long when he might justly have punished them ; but he gives them many real blessings and comforts of life , freely and bountifully . now if god deal so mercifully with sinners while they continue such , is there not greater reason to suppose he will be far more so , when they cease to be such ? ( . ) a penitent sinner doth what in him lies to vindicate god's honour . i do not say , he can make satisfaction to divine justice ; for that is impossible for him to doe ; and god hath provided for that by his own son , whom he hath made a propitiation for the sins of the world. but a true penitent takes all the shame and dishonour to himself ; he clears the justice of god's government , and the equity of his laws , and owns himself guilty of unspeakable folly in his disobedience . o how justly , saith he , might god have taken me away in the midst of my sins , when my conscience checked me for my sins , and yet i had no heart to repent of them ! when i could not but see my danger , and yet was unwilling to come out of it . i can never be sufficiently thankfull for so great a mercy as his bringing me to my self hath been ; i had gon on in the same secure , stupid , senseless condition , that others lie in , if he had not throughly awaken'd me , and roused me out of my impenitent state. how dreadfull had my condition for ever been , if my first awakening had been in the flames of hell ? nothing but infinite goodness and patience would have waited so long for the repentance of such an offender as i have been . i have sinned so often , that i am ashamed to think of the number of my transgressions ; so deeply , that i am confounded at the thoughts of them ; so foolishly , that i am unworthy to be called thy son , who have acted so unlike thy children ( so the prodigal son here speaks to his father ) and if thou wouldst admit me but to the meanest condition of thy servants , i shall ever esteem it as the greatest privilege of my life , and endeavour to serve thee for the future , though in the lowest capacity . thus the repenting prodigal goes on , v. . and in a sutable manner every true penitent behaves himself towards god with great humility , and a deep sense of his own unworthiness ; and is thereby rendred more capable of divine favour . for god resisteth the proud , but giveth grace to the humble . and therefore it is very agreeable to infinite wisdom and goodness to shew pity towards a truly humble and penitent sinner ; for a broken and contrite heart he will not despise . ( . ) if god were not so full of compassion to penitent sinners , there would have been no lncouragement for sinners to repent ; but they must have sunk into everlasting despair . for if god should forgive none that sin , then all mankind must be condemned to eternal misery ; for all have sinned ; and there is not a just man upon earth who sinneth not ; and so the best and worst , and all sorts of sinners must here suffer together ; which would have taken away all the notion of any such thing as mercy and clemency in god towards mankind . but if we set bounds to it as to some particular kinds and degrees of sinning ; we limit that which is infinite ; we determine what we know not , viz. how far god's mercy doth extend ; we destroy the power of divine grace in changing and reforming the worst of men. but the scripture hath recorded some remarkable instances of great sinners , who have been great penitents , and upon that have been pardon'd ( such as manasses , and some others ) that no penitent sinner might be discouraged in the work of repentance . for a true penitent searching to the bottom , and setting all his sins before him , with their several aggravations , can be kept from despair by nothing less than the infinite mercy of god to those who truly repent . ( . ) because there is nothing so provoking in sin , as obstinate impenitency , and continuance in it . it is true , god hates all sin for its own sake ; but not all equally ; some sins being of a higher nature than others are ; being against plainer light , stronger convictions , more easie commands , stricter obligations than others are ; but yet it is the temper of a sinner's mind , which is most provoking , when sins are committed not through infirmity , or sudden surprise , or a violent temptation ; but habitually , knowingly , wilfully ; especially when they are done in contempt of god and his laws , and with an obstinate resolution to continue in the practice of them . this is so provoking to god , that the chief reason of the severe punishments of sinners in another world is taken from thence ; because god hates obstinate and impenitent sinners . and thus he will by no means acquit the guilty . there is a sin unto death , saith st. john , and there is a sin not unto death . there is a sin unto death , which christ hath said he will never pardon ; and that is blasphemy against the holy ghost ; a sin which none who do truly own christianity , are capable of committing . but is there then no sin unto death to them ? yes , it is possible for men who have clear convictions in their minds of the truth of the gospel , to act so plainly , and wilfully , and directly against it , as either to provoke god to take them away by an extraordinary judgment , and so it is properly a sin unto death ; or to withdraw his grace from them , and leave them to the hardness of their own hearts , and so it becomes a sin unto a spiritual death . but besides these cases ; every wilfull sinner who adds impenitency to his sin , commits the sin unto death ; because there is no other condition of pardon allow'd by the gospel without true repentance . how infinite is the goodness of god that excludes no sinners from the hopes of pardon who have a heart to repent sincerely of their sins ! and how just is god in the final punishment of those sinners , who still go on in their sins , and refuse to repent ; after all the invitations and incouragements which are given them to that end ! can we in reason suppose that god should stoop lower towards sinners , than to offer them pardon of former sins , if they do repent ; and to tell them they must expect no mercy in another world if they do not repent ? but suppose we are come thus far , that we are convinced we must repent , what course and method must we take in order to it ? of this briefly , and so to conclude . secondly , i know no better than to follow the example of the prodigal son here : and in the first place to form a present , sincere , fixed and peremptory resolution of doing it ; i will arise and go to my father , &c. if we suffer convictions to cool upon our minds , the force and spirit of them will soon be gone . it hath been of late observed by the strictest enquirers into nature , that the beginnings of life are very small , and hardly discernible . it is but as a spark that appears , and may easily be extinguished ; but if it be incouraged by a continual heat , a wonderfull alteration soon follows , and the distinct parts begin to be formed ; the first which is discerned is the eye , but the fountain of life is in the heart ; and when the course of the bloud is there setled , the other parts come to their due formation with greater quickness . this may be a representation of the first beginnings of spiritual life , that which answers to the eye is the conviction of the mind , where the inward change first appears ; that which answers to the heart is resolution , and when that is fixed , a mighty reformation will soon follow . but spiritual life as well as natural is in its first beginnings a very nice and tender thing , it may be easily stopt , and very hardly recovered : it is therefore of very great concernment to keep up the warmth of our first resolutions , and to improve them into a present practice agreeable thereto ; as the prodigal son here did , who when he had resolved upon it , did accordingly arise and go to his father , v. . i do not think there are many persons in the world who have convictions upon their minds of the evil of their ways ; but do resolve at one time or other before they die to repent of their sins , and to make their peace with god. but alas ! these are ova subventanea , they make a fair appearance , but there is no principle of life in them ; or as st. jude expresses it , they are clouds without water ; of no consistency , but carried about with winds ; hurried to and fro with the force and power of temptations ; and then their resolutions are like the vapours st. james speaks of , which appear for a little time , and then vanish away . trees they are without fruit , as st. jude goes on , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; not that make no shew or appearance of fruit ; but it hath no such firmness and substance in it as to endure the nipping frosts , and so it drops off , and withers away . just such are the effects of faint and imperfect resolutions , they never hold out long , and onely aggravate the sins committed after them . for every such sin is a plain sin against conscience ; or else they would never have made any resolution against it . and those who continue to sin after resolutions against their sins , not onely lose all the peace and comfort of their minds , but make it much harder for them , either to make or trust their resolutions again , and consequently to be satisfied of the sincerity of their repentance . if we would then lay a sure foundation for the satisfaction of our minds in a matter of such unconceivable moment as the truth of our repentance is , let us call our selves to an account as to this matter of the firm purpose and resolution of our minds . have we strictly examin'd our selves as to our particular sins ? for there is no age , no imployment , no condition of life but hath its temptations belonging to it ; which require not onely our care and consideration , but resolution to keep us from them . but suppose we have been overcome by the sin which doth so easily beset us ; the work is harder to recover the ground we have lost , than at first to maintain it ; but if we have sinned , we must repent ; and the sooner the better ; but it is not to be done without awakening the drousie and benummed faculties of our minds , and exercising the secret and hidden powers therein . not as though this were to be done without the grace of god preventing and assisting us ; but because god worketh in us to will and to doe of his good pleasure , we ought to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling . let us then trifle no longer in a work we can never doe too well , nor too soon ; nor go about it with too much resolution . it is the want of this , which ruins such a number of those who would fain go to heaven , but have not courage and resolution enough , to own their repentance , and to break off their former sins : they are half penitents ; they are inwardly troubled for them , and wish themselves able to withstand the next temptation ; but when it comes , they yield and suffer themselves to be drawn away , as a bird hasteth to the snare , and knoweth not that it is for his life . now in such cases , resolution is not onely a convenient and proper thing ; but a very wise thing . for , when once a resolution is found to be serious , and in good earnest , the former companions in wickedness will leave off to solicit ; and if once a penitent sinner can endure to be despised , and exposed for a time by evil men for owning his repentance , he will find the other parts of his change grow more easie to him ; and the devil's instruments in tempting will be like himself ; i. e. they will give over tempting when they see no hopes to prevail . and let no men ever complain that they want power to break off their former sins , till they have tried what the strength of a vigorous resolution will doe . but because we have always reason to suspect our selves , let us make our devout applications to almighty god to give us the assistence of his grace through the onely mediation of his son jesus christ. to whom , &c. the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e malac. . . heb. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . aelian . var , hist. l. . c. . is. . , . matt. . , , . heb. . . . . ps. , . jam. . . exod. ● . , . ps. . . is. . . v. . . lact. de ira dei. c. . exod. . . is. . . jon. . . psal. . . tit. . . v. . . jam. . . ps. . . rom. . . eccl. . . exod. . . john . , . matt. . . harv . exerc . , , . jud. v. . jam. . . prov. . . the answer to the report, &c., which the united ministers appointed their committee to draw up, as in the preface also letters of the right reverend the bishop of worcester, and the reverend dr. edwards to mr. williams, against whom their testimony was produced by mr. lob : and animadversions on mr. lob's defence of the report / by daniel williams. williams, daniel, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the answer to the report, &c., which the united ministers appointed their committee to draw up, as in the preface also letters of the right reverend the bishop of worcester, and the reverend dr. edwards to mr. williams, against whom their testimony was produced by mr. lob : and animadversions on mr. lob's defence of the report / by daniel williams. williams, daniel, ?- . stillingfleet, edward, - . edwards, john, - . [ ], p. printed by sam. darker, for john lawrence ..., london : . reproduction of original in: new college (university of edinburgh). library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng lobb, stephen, d. . -- report of the present state of the differences in doctrinals. great britain -- church history -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the answer to the report , &c. which the united ministers appointed their committee to draw up , as in the preface . also letters of the right reverend the bishop of worcester , and the reverend dr. edwards , to mr. williams ; against whom their testimony was produced by mr. lob. and animadversions on mr. lob's defence of the report . by daniel williams . london , printed by sam. darker , for iohn lawrence at the angel in the poultrey . . the preface . i shall give a true narrative of the composing and publishing of the following sheets . the vnited ministers , after their usual recess , met at st. hellens , sept. . . after previous debates [ it was unanimously voted that the committee should take notice of the papers called , the report and the remarks . and if any brother had any thing to offer about the same , that he should communicate it to them , in order to their drawing up an answer . ] the committee consists of dr. bates , mr. hammond , mr. how , mr. alsop , mr. williams , mr. stretton , mr. woodhouse , mr. spademan , mr. nath. taylor . sept. . . [ the answer of the committee to the report , &c. was read , and ordered to be read a second time next monday . ] note , . they of the committee , who applied themselves to this work , were mr. hammond , mr. alsop , mr. williams , mr. stretton , mr , woodhouse , mr. spademan , and mr. nath. taylor . six of them severally perused this answer to the report ; and after several meetings , all the seven unanimously agreed thereto , and brought it to the meeting as the answer they had prepared . the most material parts were read to dr. bates ( particularly the proposal , p. , . the accouut of the subscription to the first paper , and concerning my book , p. , , &c. ) and approved of by him . our rule is , that no matter of moment shall be determined , unless it have been openly and freely debated , and agreed in one meeting , and then re-assumed and concluded in a second meeting . . this answer was debated , and agreed to in the meeting ; tho a brother had objected against its being in the name of the body . sep. . . [ resolved that the reading of the answer to the report , be deferred to this day fortnight , that the committee may have time to consider . ] note , . the occasion of this delay , was not any thing objected against any part of this answer ; but three of the brethren insisted that it was too great a condescention in the body , to answer so insignificant a person as the author of the report ; and that this present answer should be published by a particular brother , and that some inconveniency might attend putting forth any answer in the name of the body . . the thing to be considered by the committee was , what expedient could be offered , or reason given , why this answer should not be published in the name of the united ministers as such . . the committee met , and debated . but one of the foresaid three brethren remained unsatisfied , that any answer should be printed in the name of the body of the united ministers . the debate was put off to another time . october . . [ mr. hammond acquainted the brethren that the committee was not ready to give in their report . ] upon some of the brethren begining to express their resentments at these delays ; i spake to this effect : [ mr. moderator , tho i have met with no reason that 's cogent with me , or with many of the brethren , why any be unwilling the answer should be published in the name of the body of the united ministers , yet the dissatisfaction of any worthy brother , &c. is so inconvenient at this juncture , that i shall not insist on the present reading of our answer here . — but i shall acquaint you , that some or other of the brethren will cause this answer to be printed , with an account how far it hath proceeded among us . ] this proved a satisfying expedient , of which no man expressed any dislike . hereupon a vote which past nemine contradicente , sep. . . ( when all were present , who desired further time to consider whether the answer should be in the name of all the united ministers ) was now repeated and unanimously approved ; the vote was , [ we judge it needful that there be an answer to two papers , called the report and the remarks , in vindication of the united ministers from the charge therein made against them . ] thus far and no further did this answer to the report , proceed in our meeting of ministers ; nor did i keep it a secret when in the press . but most of the brethren were informed thereof , whereat none expressed ( that i know of ) any dissatisfaction . as for the epistle and the reflections on the remarks , they went no further than the committee , and were not to be brought to the meeting till after the answer had past . tho this narrative informs you , that this answer is not published in the name of the body of the united ministers , because the confirmation of it by a second reading is suspended , and only so . yet the original papers and the matters of fact declared , are as unquestionable , and the doctrines herein acknowledged are as much their common sentiments as if the answer had been published in the name of the body . for i appeal to the book of st. hellens , for the truth of this narrative , and to the copy perused and marked by the committee , that there is no change in the answer to the report , except one amendment in the date of time . nor in the epistle , or reflections on the remarks , besides one expression softned by the committees direction . could the answer of a particular brother , as well express the doctrines assented to by the united ministers , and obtain the same credit in a recital of matters of fact ( in both which lies their vindication ) as this answer [ which their committee was appointed to draw , and which they brought in to the meeting as their prepared answer , and which was once agreed to by the body , and unexcepted against in any one passage , when it was suspended to gratify three of the brethren , ] i should have preferred the liberty of answering alone , if i had not judged it needless after so great an answer as the faithful rebuke , which was so acceptable that only the modesty of the author preveuted the thanks of the united ministers , for his putting a stop to the evil effects of the report , whilst their meetings were discontinued . i have subjoyned that second paper , mentioned in the report , &c. as also one of the letters of the right reverend the lord bishop of worcester , and one of the reverend dr. edwards , both whose books mr. lob cites against me : and therefore i thought none fitter to vindicate me against his charge , and their own books from the ill use he wrested them to serve . lastly , mr. lob's defence of the report , with a challenge to me coming forth , when these were in the press ; friendship and justice to the rebuker prompted my bestowing a few hours to stop the ill effects of this grand peice of art and misrepresentation , ( it 's nothing else ) until he shall better fift , and more expose it . and one thing i hint , which i thought proper for him to overlook . if after all this evidence mr. lob can find a people so credulous and bewitched by prejudice , as to say , the united ministers , or my self , are socinians ; that the difference on our part ( tho it 's so on theirs ) have been about meer words or trifles ; that we have opposed any thing but gross crispianism , that we brake the union , or refused re-union from a zeal for errors against the satisfaction of christ , or justification by his righteousness ; they deserve pity rather than argument . that at last truth and peace may prevail , is the prayer of , daniel williams . nov. . . to the reader . none are more afflicted than our selves under those unseasonable dissentions , which we would have concealed , when our utmost endeavours and compliances could neither prevent , nor yet put a period to . but the authors of the printed papers which we confute , have contrived so to proclaim our differences , by sending those sheets in letters to most of our ministers in the kingdom , yea , to forreign parts , and to multitudes of private persons : that our defence , instead of making our divisions more known , will scarce reach those already mis-informed . had the charge contained only small mistakes , or lesser errors ; christian prudence might forbid an answer . but when they publish us guilty of such destructive opinions , as they say subvert the doctrine of christs satisfaction , yea , and make it impossible ; and this not as rash censures , but pretending to cite our own paper for their charge ; a vindication is necessary , unless we ought to prostitute our ministry , betray the truth , lye under the brand of heretical opinions , induce others by our example to entertain such errors , and confirm those who are already infected . had the accusation been still confined to some particular brethren , our practice hitherto may convince the world , we had not as a body set forth this vindication : but when the authors of the report , &c. accuse all who sent the third paper , i. e. the body of the united brethren in and about london : nothing short of our own publick testimony can be sufficient to declare what our principles be , or acquit us from holding those horrid errors , they so confidently as well as falsely ascribe unto us . a particular brothers defence of us would be incompetent to these ends , had any one been willing thereby to expose himself . and yet tho the reporters write for , and pretend to give the sense of all the dissenting brethren , as well as to arraign and condemn all us the vnited ministers : nevertheless , we direct our confutation only to the authors of the report , and of that called remarks , with such as consented to and approved thereof . we are so far from intending any other persons , that we hope , none besides them will esteem themselves reflected on in this our defence : nor had we given any narrative of the rise and progress of our differences ( least more might appear intended ; ) but that the report and remarks do so frequently declare , that our divisions hitherto have been caused only by our contending for socinian errors against christs satisfaction . we also desire the reader to observe that what we call the first paper , is that which several congregational brethren contend for . that which we call the third paper , is , that which the vnited brethren sent as a mean of re-vnion to those wh● have left the vnion . and when we term such as left the vnion , and approve of the report , dissenters , it is not from any dis-respect , but because the report chuseth to call them by the name of dissenting brethren , p. . and whereas once or twice we have occasion to give a narrative only of some things declared by some of our brethren , we do not therein determine concerning such things , further than to report that those brethren have declared such things as we there mention . with this necessitated vindication of our selves and ministry , we think it incumbent on us to warn all persons , especially such of you as stand more peculiarly related to us ; that you be not shaken in mind , but that you remain stedfast in the faith in this time , when seducers not only abound , but under various disguises are so unusually active , and successful to the reproach of christianity , and the apparent danger of the souls seduced by them . lament with us to see all revealed religion exposed by some , the god-head and satisfaction of christ our blessed redeemer denied by others , and doctrines which have a direct tendency to libertinism espoused too many . all which , with the residue of the great errors at this time propagated ; do ( however inconsistent they seem ) jointly contribute to the subverting of the true religion , and threaten misery to these kingdoms . and as we would excite your godly zeal for the truths and laws of christ , against opinions , subverting the foundations of faith , and militating against practical godliness : so with equal concern we must exhort you , to have fervent charity towards all christians , and to walk in peace with all who call upon the name of the lord out of a pure heart . notwithstanding differences in lesser matters . whereunto we have attained , let us all walk by the same rule ; waiting with mutual forbearance , till god shall reveal those things to such , who at present are otherwise minded than our selves . peace is so desirable , that we have suffered our selves to be long misrepresented in hopes that time at least would so abate the prejudices of our dissenting brethren ( as the report calls them ) as not to necessitate us to a publick vindication of our selves . but to our grief we find that the more we submitted , the more some were incouraged to serve their own purposes , by exposing us and our ministry . yet we continued passive until a printed paper , entituled , a report of our differences : written by some of them as if in the name , if not with the consent , or countenance of the rest , compels us at last , to state matters of fact , as they stand , with respect to doctrinals , between us the united ministers in and about london , and such as have deserted our union : which we can freely submit to the judgment of the unbiass'd reader , altho we forbear to mention several things , which would irritate more than those we are forced to recite for our defence against the paper we are now taking into consideration . the title it bears is , a report of the present state of the differences in doctrinals , &c. but upon perusal , we find it neither an impartial , clear , nor true report of those differences ; nor can the design it is to serve be concealed , especially when it is so industriously sent throughout the kingdom , to impose on such as are unacquainted with our case . before we examine the particulars of this report , it 's needful to give an account of the rise , and progress of our differences , wherein it will appear whether we did any thing to break the union , or ommitted any thing within our power to induce those brethren to re-unite , who had separated from us , or were not inclined to live i● peace , when their unperswadeableness made us so un●happy , as to be deprived of their des●red society . about the beginning of the year , . were pub●lished the ●eads of an agreement between the presbyterian and congregational ministers ( as then distinguish'd in and about london , which were drawn up by a numbe● deputed by those of both denominations : of the fir● were , mr. hamond , mr. how , mr. williams , mr stretton with dr. annesly and mr. mayo , who both of the● are now at rest in the lord. of the other were , m●● griffith , mr. mead , mr. chauncey , mr. lobb , with mr● iames and mr. mather , which two also are now fal●len asleep in the lord. these heads of agreemen● were assented to ( as far as we know , ) by all the pres●byterian and congregational ministers then in and abou● london , except mr. cole , mr. mather , and mr. rich. tay●lor . among other things , we therein declared , firs● we would meet and consult , without the least shadow of separate , or distinct parties . secondly , that as to what appertains to soundness of judgment in matters of faith , we esteem it sufficient that a church acknowledge the scriptures to be the word of god ▪ the perfect and only rule of faith and practice ; and own either the doctrinal part of the articles of the church of england , or the confession , or catechisms shorter or larger , compiled by the assembly at westminster ; or the confession agreed on at the savoy to be agreeable to the said rule . by the first , we thought our meetings of ministers were secured , and opposite meetings prevented . by the latter , we provided , that our union should not be dis●olved by every different opinion ; especially such as were known to be espoused by persons when admitted members of the union , as the reverend mr. baxter , mr. cockain , &c. this union was tollerably maintained for a while , notwithstanding the attempts of some to break it , as we have reason to fear , and of others to make it serviceable to purposes not fit to be mentioned . about october , . mr. chauncey in a meeting of the united ministers after many warm expressions declared , he would leave their meetings , and break off from their union . the cause he alledged , was our taking no cognizance of a ●aper of objections , subscribed by mr. griffith , mr. cole , mr. mather , mr. chauncey , mr. trayl , and mr. richard taylor , against mr. williams's book called , gospel truth stated , &c. writen in confutation of dr. crisps's unsound opinions which had been reviv'd , and divulged by his works reprinted ; to which book of mr. williams's , an approbation is prefixt with several of our names . there were many reasons we should take small notice of those objections in our meetings , seeing that three of the six objectors were not of the vnion : the material objections were not only ungrounded , but they recited as mr. williams's words in his book , what we found quite contrary to the letter of his expressions ▪ we might add many more . but notwithstanding , we were convinced , that particular brethrens subscribing mr. williams's confutation of dr. crisp's errors ( which were openly propagated to our common danger and reproach , ) did not affect the union , nor the united ministers as such ; and therefore could be no just cause of any brother , s deserting us ; yet we appointed a number of the brethren to consider those objections against mr. williams's book , who together with the objectors accommodated that affair , by a subscription to certain doctrinal propositions , of which you have an account , printed . called , an agreement in doctrinals ; out of which we shall only collect these passages . p. . whereas some differences have of late arisen , occasioned by a book written by mr. williams , entituled , gospel truth stated ( wherein dr. crisps works reprinted are considered , ) and by certain books written by mr. chauncey in opposition thereto , and by an approbation of divers of us prefixt to mr. williams's book , and by a paper snbscribed by mr. griffith , mr. cole , mr. mather , mr. trayl , and mr. r. taylor , in conjunction with mr. chauncey : it is hereby declared , that neither they who subscribed that approbation prefixed to mr. williams's book , did therein more than signify ( as their own words express , ) that they judg'd he had , in all that was material , fully and rightly stated the truths and errors therein mentioned as such , without delivering their sense about the preface , explications , or proofs thereto belonging ; which declaration is not to be esteemed as a disapproval of the said preface , explications , or proofs . here it 's plain , that whatever ground of difference was pretended from that book , or the approbation to it , was then considered and adjusted ; that being the very express and sole matter , which that agreement refers to : and therefore , how unaccountable is it to maintain divisions so long after , upon that same pretence ? p. . we and they say , in order to the composing of matters of controversie , &c. we do subscribe these following propositions , as what do most fully provide against the arminian , antinomian , socinian , and popish errors . &c. here was declared a full provision against those respective errors . and is it not strange , that now such phrases and words must be the standard of orthodoxy , which neither this agreement , the church of england , the assemblies , nor the confession of any church require . p. . we shall always through god's gracious assistance in our future ministry , to our utmost avoid all appearance of opposition to one another , so as not to hinder or prejudice , but as far as in us lies to promote the success thereof , and the common benefit thereby . when the following behaviour of some of our dissenting brethren , is observed in many signal instances , ●t might be well suspected , whether ever they subscribed an engagement so solemn , or if they did , what ●an be contrived to oblige them ? but that they subscribed ; see p. . december . . this day the brethren , who endeavoured to accommodate this controversy , did with mr. williams , and mr. chauncy , and these other five , who with him objected against mr. w●lliams's book , subscribe to this agreement , and these doctrinal propositions . daniel williams . samuel annesley . math. barker . edw. veal . iohn iames. stephen lob. iohn how. george hamond . vincent alsop . rich. mayo . sam. slater . isaac chauncy . geo. griffith . tho. cole . nath. mather . rob. trayl . rich. taylor . on december . this expedient was brought to a meeting of the united ministers , who unanimously expressed their approbation in the following words , viz. that those brethren , who , at the desire of the united ministers , considered some objections against mr. williams's book , having brought in the above-mentioned expedient , for the accommodation of the matters in controversy ; the united ministers have weighed it , and approve of the same . besides , it was further declared by them , that whereas the united ministers collectively considered , and as such , have not been desired to approve of mr. williams's book ; in like manner , they do not by any thing in this agreement , imply an approbation of mr. chauncy's writings in this controversy ; nevertheless they do rejoyce , that both mr. williams , and mr. chauncy , have accepted this offered expedient . we hoped after this agreement , union and peace were well secured : but ( alas ! ) in a little time ( without any occasion given on our parts ) we found , besides the endeavours of those , who came not into the union , to prejudice people against us and our doctrine , as well as against the union ; several of those called congregational , who were members of the union , frequented not our meeting , but oft joyned with the former in a meeting at pinners-hall , the very day and hour of the week , in which our meetings of ministers are statedly kept . yea , and some of them in print reflected on our meetings in very unbeseeming terms , as will be made appear if occasion require . nevertheless , our zeal for peace , did not only prevail with us to be silent under these publick affronts , but set us on making a new essay for a re-union , about the latter end of the year . to which end , we appointed a number to meet , both with the dissenting brethren , who had left us ; and with such ▪ who had always refused to be of us . these dissenting brethren pretended nothing for their separation , but that there were erroneous persons in the union . to gratify them as to this , the persons deputed by us , admitted such provision as pleased those brethren , against whatever errors they suspected any of our number guilty of . this you will find in the former part of the following paper , which was brought to our meeting , as what would satisfy the dissenters , if assented to by us . some of us , were sensible of this new ●mposition of theirs ( against whose opinions we had so much to object ) and the dangerous consequences of thus multiplying confessions , as also of favouring such unjust suspicions of our principles , which we knew they had no reason for , as 〈◊〉 any of our number . nevertheless , we submitted 〈◊〉 prospect of a coalition ; only we finding their pa●●r to want due provision against crispian and antino●●an errors , which many did publickly espouse and ●●bet , we desired mr. how , mr. stretton , mr. williams , ●●d mr. lob , to supply the said defect . the result ●hereof you have in the ensuing paper , which was un●●imously agreed to in our meeting , and sent from us 〈◊〉 mr. lob , to our dissenting brethren ; in ian. . . after a preface it thus follows , ' we the united ministers in and about london , considering of a way whereby to preserve the union , and prevent any mistakes , and remove any prejudices that may arise amongst us , to interrupt the foresaid union , do declare , that we still adhere to the terms thereof , and do still submit to the holy scriptures as the rule of faith and practice , and do own the doctrinal part of those commonly called the articles of the church of england , or the confession , shorter or larger catechisms , compiled by the assembly at westminster , or the savoy confession ; and do renounce , and testify against all opinions and doctrines dissonant therefrom ; as for instance , among many others . first , that there is no definite number of persons elected from all eternity , whom god will by his appointed means certainly save , and bring to eternal life , leaving the rest who fall under a just condemnation for their original and actual sins , especially for their neglect and contempt of the means of salvation . . that christ died equally for all men , not intending the final salvation of some more than others . thirdly , that men have in their own power by the use of the natural faculties of their reason and will , unassisted by the special light and grace of the holy ghost , to perform all that is necessary to salvation ; or that his special efficacious light and grace is not necessary to their conversion , perseve●rance , and final salvation . fourthly , that any o● them whom god hath foreknown , predestinated and called effectually according to the purpose of hi● grace , shall fall away either totally , or so as not t● be finally gloryfied fifthly , that faith , repen●tance , a holy conversation , or any act of wor● whatever done by us , or wrought by the spirit o● god in us , are any part of that righteousness fo● the sake of which , or on the account whereof , go● doth justify any man , or entitle him to eterna● life . on the other side . first , that men are under no obligation to mak● use of their natural faculties , with such externa● means of salvation as god affords them , praying i● hope , for his gracious assistance in order to tha● blessed end . secondly , that god hath not made of●fers of grace by christ , to all within the sound o● the gospel , testifying that whoever believeth shall b● saved , without excluding any , and commandin● them to believe accordingly . thirdly , that any ar● in the sight of god justified , or entitled to eterna● life , before they are effectually called , or while the remain unregenerate , or in unbelief . fourthly , tha● any may expect pardon without repentance . fifthly ▪ that continued repentance towards god , and fait● in our lord jesus , and holyness of heart and life are not in the nature of the thing , and by the con●stitution of the gospel necessary to salvation . sixthly ▪ that the moral law is not of use to unregenerate men , to awaken their consciences to fly from th● wrath to come , and drive them to christ , or that 't is not a rule of life to them that live under the gospel , as well as others . seventhly , that believers falling into grievous sins , do not incur gods displeasure ; or that they may expect assurance otherwise , than by the evidence of those graces to which the promises of salvation are made , and by the testimony of the spirit of adoption witnessing with our spirits , that we are the children of god. we have thought it our duty to bear our testimony against all these erroneous opinions , or any other contrary to the plain tenour of the gospel of god : and we do further protest against any design of undermining one another in any matter of church government , but do heartily desire to maintain communion with each other , according to the heads of agreement we have assented to . and if any thing hath been done or spoken by any of us , through mistake or inadvertency , that may cause any just offence to the prejudice of the said union , we are ready upon better information to rectify the same , still desiring and continually resolving a brotherly forbearance towards one another , in any lesser points wherein we may differ . our concern for union will appear , if it be considered that ( to the best of our knowledge ) we retained all the very words sent by them to us , as a guard against each of the errors , of which they suspected any of us : the provisions we added , is generally in the words of the assembly , to which we hoped they would be more easily induced to assent , than if we had expressed our selves in other words ; and we limited our additions to such errors as are the other extreme , as to the articles they had chosen to insist upon , whereas we might have provided against each of dr. crisp's errors . a good issue of this paper was expected by many of us . but to our grief it was rejected , and no answer sent us concerning it to this very day : yea , a coalition hereupon was chearfully hoped for by us , even after their friends had , nov. . . necessitated four of our number to leave the lecture at pinners-hall , and all such of the dissenting brethren , who were managers of ●he reiief for poor ministers , had deserted their assoiates with other things , not so directly belonging to the body of united ministers , as such . but alas ! ( as they had generally absented from us long before ) all the bre●hren call'd congregational ( except the reverend and upright mr. barker , and a very few more ) joyned as a separate party from us , in the monday 's meeting at pinners-hall , with the ministers who had opposed the union ever since it was concluded . the temper of our brethrens spirits , the methods taken to expose us , their disappointing us so often , when we thought they had been obliged ; and the unsuccessfulness of so many probable attempts for re-union , might well discourage any further endeavours ; yet when we heard that any of these brethren had the least disposition towards peace , we applyed our selves to an accommodation . in order thereunto , the reverend dr. bates , mr. hammond , mr. hill , and mr. slater , in concurrence with mr. how , and mr. williams , were desired to draw up a proposal , which they brought to our meeting , as that wherein they were all agreed ; and after we had several days considered the same , it was unanimously assented to , and sent by us in a letter to our brethren . the paper , by the report called the third paper , which was sent by the vnited brethren to such as had left the vnion . whereas some unhappy differences have arisen among us , principally about the doctrin of justification , as set forth in mr. williams's book , entituled , gospel truth stated , to which several of our names are pre●ixt ; we being willing to give all reasonable satisfaction therein , for the removing the present , and preventing all future differences , which will otherwise tend to the dishonour of god , disquiet of his churches , and danger of souls ; do here by declare our judgment concerning the same . that we adhere to our former approbation of the doctrinal articles of the church of england , or confession of faith compiled by the assembly at vvestminster , or that at the savoy , as agreeable to the word of god , and particularly , to the articles collected by us out of the confession with the catechisms compiled by the same assembly , printed . a●d further declare , that if any shall express himself disagreeably thereto , in any momentous points of doctrin , we will with brotherly candour and kindness endeavour to give , and receive just satisfaction therein , bearing with one anothers infirmities , and different sentiments in matters of lesser weight , not contending about logical , or philosophical terms , or meer human forms of speech , not judging it reasonable or just , to charge upon any such consequences of any expression or opinion of his , which he himself shall disown . and we further declare , as to the special matters in difference . i. concerning justification . that altho the express word of god do assert the necessity of regeneration , to our entring into the kingdom of god ; and requires repentance , that our sins may be blotted out ; and faith in christ , that we may be justified ; and holiness of heart and life , without which we cannot see god. yet that none of these , or any work done by men , or wrought by the spirit of god in them , is , under any denomination whatsoever , any part of the righteousness for the sake , or on the account whereof , god doth pardon , justifie , or accept sinners , or entitle them to eternal life , that being only the righteousness of christ without them , imputed to them , and received by faith alone . ii. of a commutation of persons between christ and us . as we are to consider our lord jesus christ in his obedience , and sufferings , as god and man ▪ invested with the office of mediator ; so it is apparent , this commutation of persons with us was not natural , in respect of either nature , by which his individual substance should become ours , and ours his ; nor moral , in respect of qualities , or actions , whereby he should become inherently sinful , and we immediately sinless . nor was it any change whereby his office of mediator should be transfered on us . but it is to be understood in a legal , or judicial sense ( as we may call it ) viz. he by agreement between the father and him , came into our room and stead , not to repent and believe for us , which the gospel requires of us as our duty ( tho he hath undertaken the ele●t shall in due time be inabled thereto ) but to answer for our violation of the law of works : he being made sin for us , that knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him . cor. . iii. of god's being pleased or displeased with christ , as standing , and suffering in our stead . we judge that god was always pleased with christ , both in his person , and execution of all his offices , which is exprest most particularly in that of his priestly , ● iohn , therefore doth my father love me , because i lay down my life , &c. and no otherwise displeased than as having a dispassionate will to inflict upon him the punishment of our sins , which he had undertaken to bear , that god might , without injury to his justice or honour , pardon and save penitent believers , for his satisfaction , and intercession founded thereon . mr. vvilliams freely declareth his concurrence with us in these three particulars , and that his judgment was never contrary to the sence of this paper , for which he appeals to the said book : so it is manifest , that when he useth the prhase of no change of person between christ and the elect , it could not be intended as a denial o● a change of persons between christ and us in the general sence , but only in opposition to the opinion of his adversary he wrote against , for in that very place he expresly affirms , that christ suffer'd and dyed in our room , and stead . and we do declare , that whosoever shall be found , to express themselves in their preaching or writing agreeably to this paper , and to the mentioned articles or confessions , we shall esteem them to deliver the sincere gospel of our lord and saviour jesus christ ; and it shall be remote from us to oppose or reflect upon , but we shall to our utmost encourage , and give countenance to one anothers ministry therein . such of us , whose names are prefixed to the said book , do declare they were given to the state of truth and errors , as formerly exprest in the paper , intituled , the agreement in doctrine , subscribed and published , anno dom. . they who framed this proposal had before them two papers , one which the report calls the first paper , which one of our brethren had with great condescension and inclination to peace , concerted with some of the dissenters : which paper , altho it was never proposed to , nor read in any of our publick meetings of ministers , and was unanimously agreed to be laid aside with a second paper , that had been brought unto us by another brother ; yet it 's manifest , the brethren in the framing of this third ( which is our only paper ) greatly accommodated themselves to the model of the first : for they admit a new debate concerning mr. williams's book , after a solemn accommodation of that whole matter , when the dissenters had unjustly made it an occasion of difference so many years before ; they also recite two passages of mr. williams , as excepted against by the dissenters , and limit the declaration of our judgment to the three heads , the objectors did choose to insist upon , whereas you will presently read a vote of us united ministers , wherein we require a disowning of very many antinomian errors , published by several of these dissenters , whenever they shall make the disowning of any passages out of books written against antinomianism , a term of union . yea further , we retain the whole provision of the first paper , against any of our surmized errors in the doctrine of justification , and what we add is in scripture words . and in the other two heads , we come as near as we can with truth , and freedom from ambiguity , in points of so great concernment , and in a time when so many are at work to propagate crispianism , and antinomianism . a coalition could be no indifferent thing to such , who to obtain it do thus condescend , and deny themselves . but to give our attempt a yet greater advantage , we omitted not to address our selves to our brethren , with the most affectionate , fervent , and humble intreaties , and supplications , as well as perswasive arguments ; as you will see in this letter which we sent to them , with the forementioned paper . note , it was declared , that by the words [ under any denomination whatsoever ] we exclude all righteousness from being meritorious , or attoning , yea , or a procuring cause of these benefits ; none is at all so , but the righteousness of christ. but we intended not to exclude what the gospel requireth in order to our interst , in those benefits given for the sake of christs righteousness . to our reverend , and duely respected , and beloved brethren in our common lord and saviour iesus christ , mr. griffith , mr. mead , mr. chauncey , mr. james , mr. lobb , and the rest of the brethren of the vnion , ( who for some time . ) have forborn to meet with the vnited ministers at dr. annesley's meeting place . reverend brethren , your forbearing to meet with us at our ordinary times and places for so many months ▪ hath made a deep , and smarting impression on our spirits , and filled our hearts with grief and wonder . with grief , because we have been so long deprived of much of that satisfaction and assistance , which your presence with us was wont to afford us . with wonder , because we could neither apprehend nor receive any certain information of those reasons , which prevailed with you , to keep off so long from our conventions . for to this day you never acquainted us , directly , and clearly , of any offence that was ever offered to you , by the united ministers , as standing in that capacity , had you been pleased to signifie your resentments to them ▪ they take themselves to have been obliged to have sought out proper ways and means for the removal of all prejudices , and of rendring to you , reasonable and due satisfaction . all the light that we have received about matters in difference between us , hath been from a reverend brother , who told us , that by conference with some who forbear to come to our meetings , he under stood , that they apprehended , there are those in our union , who have sentiments about the doctrin of justification , different from the common faith of all orthodox protestants , and so dissonant from the holy scriptures , and the confessions , which have been owned and approved by us . the same brother added that if there were sufficient evidence and assurance given them , that the body of the united ministsrs would approve themselves , sound , clear , and stedfast in that most weighty and important doctrin ( which we all acknowledge to be articulus stantis vel cadentis eclesiae , ) they would then maintain all brotherly communion with us . when this was notified to us , we presently conceived great and good hopes , that all jealousies might be easily removed , and that a redintegration of affections would immediately follow . and what should hinder ? for if you do attentively , and deliberately weigh what is asserted in the article of justification , in the inclosed paper , ( which was unanimously agreed unto , after open reading , and that upon several days ) we are confident , that it will evidently and undeniably appear , that we perfectly agree with our brethren in the evangelical doctrin of justification , even in the very phrases and modes of expression . our agreement in the doctrin of justification , which was as the test and cement of our union , being so happily established and fixed ; we shall need to say but little , touching the other two points mentioned in the inclosed paper : which ( as we think ) are so clearly and candidly stated , that we believe , ( as we suppose , upon sure and certain grounds ) there will be nothing remaining ( upon that account ) to obstruct our entire and hearty union it would be superfluous to lay before you any considerations to set forth the desirableness , usefulness , we may add the necessity of ministerial concord : or to represent the sin , and mischief that will inseparably cleave to our unbrotherly breaches . we all find ( by sad experience ) what advantage is given thereby , to some who seek occasion to reproach us , and to hinder the success , or acceptableness of our ministry . they do certainly wish , and will endeavour to make our wound incurable . but we trust , the lord will blast their designs , and frustrate their expectations , by enlightning our minds , to receive and hold fast all truths , and specially those which are fundamental : and by his grace , most sweetly and effectually draw our hearts to love as brethren : that we may closely , strongly , and intimately knit-together in inviolable bonds : and so guide us , that we may all follow after the things that make for peace , and the things wherewith one may edify another . and now ( dear brethren ) we do , with all sincerity and ardor , beseech you to meet us with the like frame of spirit ; that our only emulation and contention may be , who shall be most industrious to promote the interest of our lord redeemer : be most useful to the souls we are set to watch over : and be most forward to embrace each other in the arms of love. that these blessed ends may be the more effectually pursued , we do ( with all importunity and fervor ) beseech you to return to and frequent our meetings , as ye have formerly done : that we may joyn with you there , in your holy prayers : be assisted with your wholesome counsels , and be refreshed with your much desired society : that we may with one mind , and one mouth glorify god , even the father of our lord jesus christ. amen . if , after the perusal of the inclosed paper , ye meet with any thing therein that may seem to need further explanation : and ye be willing to entertain a conference about it : be pleased to appoint the time and place , when and where , a determinate number of the united ministers , may meet with a like number of the brethren nominated by you , and we shall most readily and chearfully comply with your proposal . howbeit , we must add , that we hope , we have already set down our sentiments , as nakedly and perspicuously as we could express , in pursuance of our end , which was to give you all possible satisfaction — we conclude this paper with two earnest requests to you . ( . ) upon the hopes which you have conceived , that ( thro' the grace and blessing of our god ) the differences which have risen among us , will be brought to an happy composure : we importunately beseech you , to use your uttermost endeavours , to perswade these brethren who have not as yet entred into our union , that they will joyn with us in it . ( . ) that you would ( assoon as conveniently you can ) vouchsafe us an answer to this our letter . finally , brethren farewell , be perfect , be of good comfort , be of one mind , live in peace : and the god of love and peace shall be with you . signed at dr. annesle●'s . october . . by mr. hammond moderator . to our letter so submissive , peaceable , and impo●tunate , we received this and no other answer . reverend brethren , having received from you a letter with a paper inclosed , in answer thereunto suffer us to acquaint you , that a paper subscribed by a considerable number of you , and approved of by us some months since , which we have reason to believe some of you have had the perusal of ; we therefore to whom your letter is directed , do not reckon it brotherly in us to forsake them who have subscribed the foresaid paper , but do rather judge our selves bound in conscience to entreat ●our hearty concurrence with them , and us , in that ●●st paper ; which , as we have already said , hath been ●●bscribed by very principal and reverend ministers , ●●ghly esteemed both by you and us : and this we hope , may , through the blessing of god , be the speediest way 〈◊〉 obtain the desirable end. ●ubscribed in the name of several of the brethren , to whom your letter was communicated . this is the letter our reporter complains we gave no reply to , wherein we think we paid a great ●egard to them who sent it , and we shall still overlook 〈◊〉 otherwise than to note , first , it is more than ●robable some of us perused , what a considerable num●er of us subscribed . secondly , our brethren who ●ubscribed , could not judge it unbrotherly , to be for●aken for laying aside the first paper , when every one ●f them had laid it aside before , and joyned in the ●hird paper , and in the letter whereto this answer is ●●●en ( which it's strange any of the dissenters could 〈◊〉 ignorant of . ) thirdly , what is the desirable end ? ●ad they said union , it would have been more accep●able to us , than it seemed to be to such of themselves , 〈◊〉 declared in one o● the meetings about this expe●ient , that it was not intended by this attempted a●reement , that they would joyn with us in our meet●●gs as united ministers , but that an agreement in doctrine might be a step to further union : yea , we 〈◊〉 scarce hope they would have re-united , could we 〈◊〉 submitted to their papers , because , as we are infor●ed , mr. cole and mr. mather refused their assent to 〈◊〉 and this their letter was subscribed in the name , 〈◊〉 of several ( not of all ) to whom it was communica●●●● ; nor ( as we find ) was any union , or agreement ●●gaged , or expressed , except in doctrine , had this expedient obtained . this is the true state of the ca●● between our brethren and us : could we have obtai●●ed a re-union upon mutual forbearance wherein we di●●fer : had any of these accounts of our principles ●●●tisfied them ; ( tho' we therein admit so rigid and 〈◊〉 a tryal wherein they suspected us , and propose so v●●ry short and easy a test when we affirm the trut● denied by them ) had our impo●tunity for peace , atte●●ded with much patience and condescention , been a●●cepted ; the mischievous effects of our differences h●● been prevented . nor can we guess what would p●●●vail with the authors of t●ese divisions , unless tha● book should be disowned , which , the subscribers 〈◊〉 convinced , is of great use for the defence of the go●●pel in a time abounding with errors : and such trut● betrayed , as the usefulness of our ministry and prac●●●cal religion depend upon : things we are sure chr●●● would not app●ove , nor could we expect a peace bought to prove a blessing . we were well assured , that a faithful account of 〈◊〉 state of things among us , must acquit us of the bla●● of those unhappy differences , and prevent the adva●tages some made by mis-representing us : neverth●●less , we had still remained silent , if this so unjust a 〈◊〉 pors ( with a paper of remarks following it ) had 〈◊〉 been obtruded on the world , and with art scatter●● throughout the kingdom , yea , sent to forreign na●●ions as can be proved ; after this , indeed our sile●● would proclaim us stupidly insensible and unconcern●● for the common good , as well as for our own repu●●●tion and usefulness . we shall proceed to consider what is material in 〈◊〉 report . first , the report saith , our differences may be re●●●ced to christs satisfaction and the penal sanction of 〈◊〉 law ; tho' hitherto , the greatest struggle hath been about 〈◊〉 first . answ. . the first was no part of the difference till ●f late , that mr. lobb contrived to make it so , tho' ●ithout any reason ; for mr. williams rightly and fully ●sserted the first in his books . and the utmost that ●an be made of the latter is , that mr. williams asserts ●hat if the precepts of the law of works be consi●ered , as taken into the gospel , they fall under the gospel sanction ; and tho' in this respect there is a ●hange of the sanction , yet the precepts considered ●ill as a part of the law of works , they are under ●he same legal sanction as at first , which is to say , the covenant of works and the gospel covenant dif●er . and yet this seems to be reserved for a new controversy , if we had agreed to their very mode of expressing the point he insisteth on . answ. . it 's a very great mistake , that our differ●nce with them is reduced to these two points , alas ! ●t extends to many other things ( viz. ) most of dr. crisp's opinions , as to which they refuse to give us sa●isfaction , tho' he granteth these two are all they quarrel with us about , and how unjustly will presently be seen . we shall detect his mistake by a brief narrative . . the difference originally appeareth to be about most of those positions , called truths and errors in the state of them in mr. williams's book ; for six of the dissenters did not only object some particular passages ; but they deny those to be truths which are called truths , and such to be errors which are called errors , in the . . . . . . . and . chapters of that book : yea , they say , they find not truth and error rightly stated in other places besides these ; thus they say , mr. chauncyes neonomianism unmasked , par. . p. . whereas many of our brethren subscribed , that each of these were rightly stated . he that will read the truths and errors in those several chapters , may judge of the difference , and whether any of dr. crisp's errors will be disowned . . in the forcited articles . you 'll find that when we had owned such to be errors , which they required of us , yet they refused to disown those errors which we added ; and therefore the difference at that time , respected whatever they refused to agree with us in , and was not ever since accommodated . . the reporter cannot be ignorant , that september . . this vote unanimously passed among the united brethren , upon reading a paper relating to several dangerous expressions in favour of antinomianism , if that any thing objected out of books written against antinomianism be required to be disowned as a term of union , that those things read this day , and further to be collected of that kind out of the books on the other side , shall be required to be disowned . some things collected out of the books of mr. chauncy , mr. cole , mr. mather , and mr. trail . to talk of a gospel threat , is a catechresis at best , and nothing else can save it from being a bull. pardon is rather the condition of faith , and much more having a causal influence thereunto , than faith and repentance are of pardon . it was sin , as the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that christ bore , the fault of sin was laid upon christ , the sin it self as opposed to guilt . christ was reputed a criminal , not only by man , but by god. as to the elect , there was never any guilt upon them , in respect of the righteous judgment of god , in foro dei , but that which accompanied the letter of the law , setting in with the conscience . justification is before effectual vocation — the doctrine of justification before faith is not an error , but a great and glorious truth . justification in regard of application must be before believing — the first application , ordine naturae saltem , is to an ungodly man , eo nomine that he may believe ; we believe that we may be justified declaratively . it is denied , that god requires faith as an indispensible qualification in them , whom he will justify for christs merits — he denies that unbelief is the cause why men are barred from justification , and obnoxious to misery . he saith , you talk of an offer to the non elect , and that offer you say must be serious , &c. but i pray , where is any offer of grace to the non-elect at all , as such . and shew me any grace given , or gospel duties required of the non-elect , or benefits promised to the non-elect , upon their performance of grace and duties , &c. and what if the non-elect be in as bad a case as the devils , is god bound to be any better to them than to the devils ? god hath not said , i will save a non-elect person if he believe , more than he hath said , a horse shall be a man , if he can use reason , or speak , or a man shall be a horse if he hath four feet . god was reconciled to the elect at christs death , but we are reconciled to god by the gospel ministry . union with christ is before faith , at least natura , and we partake of the spirit by virtue of that union : there is a compleat union with christ before the act of faith. all that a believer can pray for , is the further manifestation of pardon , for he knows that all his sins are pardoned . a believer is to work from life and not for life . it 's a great truth that god sees no sin in a believer , sin can do no real hurt to a believer . god is not displeased with his people , and is not angry with the persons of believers , for their sins . legal convictions before saving faith are no more than sin , it 's but the filthy conscience polluting guilt of sin . there is no preparatory work distinct from gods act in effectual calling . the gospel is no rule of judgment , that 's the law only . the gospel is not any part of the rule of judgment at the last day , that 's only the law of creation . denies that , at the judgment day there will be a tryal , upon which some will be justified , others condemned . christs precepts are not laws with a sanction . approves of these words , sanctification is not the way of a justified person to heaven — if you look upon graces and duties , and salvation , as two distinct things , i deny that they are necessary to give a right to salvation . all imperfect holiness is sin . turn ye , turn ye , why will you dye ? is but the triumph of the law over a dead sinner . an unsaved person can do nothing in order to salvation . god was displeased with christ as our surety : we in christ satisfied the justice of god. we through christs righteousness have a right to glory , by adams covenant . adam for one good work , should have entred into full possession and a confirmation therein . to teach that a christian upon the actings of graces , and performance of duties , may in the virtue of the promise made to the exercise of those graces or duties , expect any of those promised blessings , is to teach a low and servile spirit . the eternal life in which the angels were created and confirmed by christ , differs from that eternal life which believers have in christ ; the one is a creature life , or a created life , the other is the eternal life of god communicated in time . believers are as righteous as christ , i mean not in a way of similitude , but in a way of equality . christs incarnation was no part of his humiliation ; we coalesoe upon believing into one mystical person with christ , which is distinguisht from legal union , which is before faith. the gospel hath no law-sanction , it 's plainly denied that the gospel is a law of grace . faith is neither a condition nor qualification in the office of justification ; with several things of the same sort as above recited . most of these were then included in the paper , the vote refers to ; which with the other things further collected , shall be proved to be in the printed books of the foresaid authors , and book and page cited for each , when it shall be required . yea , at great deal more , if not worse , of the same sort . by these things it 's manifest what the difference is about , tho' a noise hath been raised about things remote from the true occasion , that while we seemed to be only on the defensive part , their errors might receive countenance as if unopposed , and the abettors thereof might less appear the cause of our divisions . answ. . altho' brethren from a zeal for peace condescended to mention but three particulars in the third paper , yet it 's too evident , that the dissenters adhere to their own paper ( called the first ) and refuse ours , because this doth provide some defence against some of the errors , which our difference is about , ( the same cause for which they rejected the articles in . ) and it 's plain by what their paper saith of justification , they had this our paper of ninety four before them , and therefore must know , that we insisted under that head to have it clearly expressed , that none are justified in the sight of god , or entitled to eternal life , before they are effectually called , or whilst they are unregenerate , or in unbelief ; and that men must repent in order to forgiveness ; as also that continued repentance , faith and holyness of heart , and life , are by the constitution of the gospel , as well as in the nature of the things themselves , necessary to salvation , &c. our dissenting brethren knew this , and yet insert nothing in that first paper sufficient to this purpose . by the reporters arguing against us , their not mentioning those things is their disowning of them , and owning the contrary , yea , we have more reason to infer thus , because what they omit was sent by the body of united ministers to them as a mean of union , whereas , what 's omitted by us , was not sent to us , much less to that end , nor adjusted by our appointment . but we need not to insist on this , when by comparing the first and third papers , it 's evident , that the foresaid errors are inconsistent with the few variations in our paper , bnt very consistent with theirs , tho' not in the sense designed by our subscribing brethren . in the first part of the head of justification , their paper saith , repentance , faith , and a holy conversation , are by gods express word manifestly necessary to salvation . they do not say , repentance is necessary to pardon , nor faith to iustification , tho' that be the head treated of : no , these are necessary to no more than a holy conversation is necessary to , i. e. to eternal salvation : nor do they say , that the necessity of these to salvation it self is by the gospel constitution , or any enacted connexion between duty and benefit . things being thus worded , it may pass with such who tell us , the gospel hath neither precept , threatning , nor conditional promise : repentance is not antecedently necessary to pardon , nor faith to the justification of our persons , but only to manifest to our consciences for our inward peace , that our persons were justified before god whilst in our unbelief . but such things are prevented by our paper , which saith , that the word of god requires repentance , that our sins may be blotted out , and faith that we may be justified ; and afterwards , the gospel requires of us as our duty ; that we repent and believe , and god pardons penitent believers . in like manner , their paper in the other heads expresseth things so , as that such may subscribe it , who think the filth and fault of sin were transacted on christ , he was the criminal , the murtherer , &c. in gods account ; that god was really displeased with christ , and abhorred him as our surety ; tho' not considered in himself : and sundry the like ( that our paper gives no countenance to ) which our subscribing brethren do abhor . it 's not then without reason , that the dissenters insist on the first paper ; whether they be such who hold those errors , or resolve to indulge such as do so . and yet there wants not art in placing the differences upon our omitting a phrase in the third paper , wherein the true sense of it is expressed ; for the reporter well saw , a quarrel with us for the omission of a phrase of so uncertain a sense , is as yet more plausible , than their struggle for errors of so ill a sound would be . answ. . but if the doctrines about which we differ are not yet sufficiently evident , we shall with a desire of union make this proposal ; if our dissenting brethren will declare their agreement with us . first , that repentance towards god , is commanded in order to remission of sin. secondly , that faith in christ is commanded by the gospel , in order to the justification of our persons before god , for the sake of th● alone righteousness of christ. thirdly , that the word of god requires perseverance in true faith and holyness , that we may be partakers of the heavenly glory . fourthly , that the gospel promiseth pardon through the blood of christ to the penitent , justificaion before god to the believer , and the heavenly glory to such as persevere in faith and holyness ; and also declareth that god will not pardon the impenitent , justify the unbeliever , nor glorify the apostate or unholy . fifthly , that justifying faith is not only a perswasion of the understanding , but also a receiving and resting upon christ alone for salvation . sixthly , that by change of person is meant , that whereas we were condemned for our sins , the lord jesus was substituted in our room , to bear the punishment of our sins , for the satisfaction of divine iustice , that whoever believes on him may be acquitted and saved ; but it is not intended , that the filth of sin was upon christ , nor that he was a criminal in gods account . seventhly , that by christs being our surety is meant , that jesus christ our mediator obliged himself to expiate our sins by his blood , and to purchase eternal life for all that believe , and faith and every saving grace for the elect ; but it 's not intended , that we were legally reputed to make satisfaction , or purchase eternal life . eighthly , that by christs answering for us , the obligations of the violated law of works is intended , that whereas the law obliged us to dye for our sins , christ became obliged to dye in our stead , and whereas we were , after we had sinned , still obliged to yield perfect obedience ; christ perfectly obeyed the law , that upon the account of his active and passive obedience believers might be forgiven , and entituled to eternal life : but it 's not intended that the sense of the law of works should be , that if we , or christ obeyed we should live , and if christ suffered we should not dye , tho' we sinned : nor that believers are justified , or to be judged by the law of works , but by the gospel ; altho' the righteousness for the sake of which they are justified , be as perfect as that law of works required , and far more valuable . if our dissenting brethren will subscribe to these propositions and explications , we will subscribe with them even to the words , change of persons , surety , and answering for us the obligations of the violated law of works , as well as we have already subscribed that no work done by men , nor wrought by the spirit of god in them , is any part of that righteousness for the sake , or on the account whereof we are justified , that being only the righteousness of christ without ut , imputed to us , and received by faith alone , which is the procuring cause of all saving good. how gladly would we re-unite with them , might this but remove the difference ! and since we are content , to use their very words and phrases explained in the orthodox sense ( the omission whereof is , what is excepted against us ) we hope , that such of the dissenters as shall refuse to agree with us , will not hereafter say , that a difference in the doctrines pretended by the report ▪ is the reason why they unite not with us : but acknowledge , that they keep up the differences from their zeal for the foresaid opinions of dr. crisp and the antinomians , which we think to be very erroneous . secondly , the report saith , that the third paper was taken and sent from some who meet at little st. hellens . answ. these some had with them all of our brethren , who subscribed the first paper , yea , several of them were the framers of it , as well as the whole body of the united ministers ( as far as we know ) consented to it . thirdly , the reporter gives the reasons why the dissenters did not approve of the third paper , which are these . . he saith the third paper omitted to mention , that a change of persons is the common doctrine of protestants , and that neither justification nor christs satisfaction can be duly explained , or defended without it , and that grotius and the reverend bishop of worcester have proved a change of persons , p. . answ. . the third paper asserts a commutation of persons , therefore we wonder he , p. . affirms , that we have not mentioned it , but having therein fully asserted it in opposition to socinianism , is it not strange our paper should be scrupled , because we duly explained justification and christs satisfaction thereby , but did not say , they could not be explained without it , &c. which tho' we may think , yet the meer saying so is not the hinge of the controversy , nor would it add any strength to the hedge which we have made without it ; or else surely , some of our protestant confessions would at least have made mention thereof , and therefore these brethren must reject every one of those , as well as ours . answ. . we have affirmed and explained a change of persons in the same sense , as grotius and the reverend dr. stillingfleet bishop of worcester , have done ( as will appear to any who consult those authors ) but they are far from approving the crispian explication of that phrase , as we shall evidence by a letter of the said reverend bishop to mr. williams . answ. . as we durst not imitate the reporters liberty , perswading the world , we denyed and rejected a commutation or change of persons , when we asserted it in express terms , so we assure him , we designed not to offend our brethren , who , he saith , p. . are grieved because our letter saith , that on our so happy establishing the doctrine of iustification , we need say but little in the point of commutation of persons . by which words it's plain we meant not , that we said little of it in our paper ▪ where in the second and third heads we said enough to clear it , even twice more than what we said of justification : but we say little of it in our letter , where we have enlarged on justification ; because for several years the dissenters pretended all their great quarrel was about that doctrine ; and may not we justly grieve that for our industry , in clearing our selves beyond all their challenges as to this , we should be hereticated by this report in the new controversy , started by mr. lobb ? the second reason occurs so often , that we cannot avoid answering it again and again . . reason , there is such a wrong description given of a change of person in the third paper , as perverts the doctrine of satisfaction , p. . yea , p. . it tells us , christ did not , yea , could not make satisfaction upon what you affirm . answ. . we shall first enquire what description the reporter gives of a change of persons , which is such ●s must with wise men justify our careful expressing our sense of this phrase , p. . he saith , a commutation is the same with a proper surrogation , where the surety puts on the quality ▪ state , and condition of the debtor , p. . he tells us , we are all by nature under the curse of the law ▪ and destitute of a righteousness entituling to eternal life ▪ and addeth , this is our state and condition , this is the place we are in ; a few lines after he saith , that christ put himself into our place , state and condition , so that whereas we were sin and under a curse , by this blessed change christ was made sin and a curse . here he plainly expresseth his sense of the change of persons : as to what he speaks of christs being a curse , we object not further than that christ was not so by nature ; but the things we observe-are , that he saith , our state place and condition was , that we were destitute of a righteousness , entituling to eternal life ; this was it : he saith , that christ put himself into this our state , place and condition ; if so , then with him christ was destitute of a righteousness , entituling to eternal life . to make this more evident , he saith , we were sin , this was our place , state and condition , into which christ put himself ; and by this change was made sin : now , how were we sin ? we were not a sin-offering but sinful vile offenders ; we were sinful and destitute of all righteousness , that was our condition ; yet he saith , christ came into our condition as we were sin ; which must be , that he was changed to be a sinful vile offender , not an offering for sin , for that was not our condition : by which it's evident , our reporters commutation of persons is not , that christ became a sin offering , and in our stead subject to the punishments , which by the law sinners deserved , that they might be delivered . no , that will not content him ; but that christ was changed to be a sinful person , destitute of a righteousness entituling to eternal life ; this is his change , this is his christs taking on him the person of sinners ; which is a position not only unworthy of the praises he bestows on it , p. . but so horrid , that we hope , some of our dissenting brethren will be provoked to clear themselves from the imputation , this reporter seems fond to lay them under . answ. . the arguments must be strong by which he saith , our account of a change of person is attaqued , if they will prove that we have thereby perverted the doctrine of satisfaction , yea , and rendred it impossible . whether the arguer and reporter be the same person , we enquire not , but of the same spirit none can doubt : in return whereto , we wish them more charity and modesty for the future : however , some might expect they would have consulted their own credit so far , as not to proclaim the very same men , the most learned and most orthodox , and yet very ignorant and grossly heretical : and that as to the very same point : the first character the reporter bestows on them , for subscribing the first paper ; yet it abates nothing to them of the last , seeing they will frame and approve of the third paper . but it greatly concerns all of us , to peruse the arguments which follow . arg. . when we discourse of a commutation , we should consider christ ( who is invested with the office of mediator ) as our surety in the execution of his priestly office , &c. but wording it as they do , is calculated for their meridian , who hold christ suffered only in the person of a mediator not in the person of sinners : for which reason we may perceive , why there must not be the least mention of christs suretyship in the third paper . answ. . christs surethyship did not divest him of the office of his mediatorship , but connotes , that as mediator he engaged himself to suffer for condemned sinners , yea , and to do much more for them , than what 's included in the execution of his priestly office , ( viz. ) to teach them , overcome their enemies , &c. nay more , all christs sufferings , as a priest , were his sufferings ▪ as one mediating for sinners , and not one become himself a sinner ; as he is represented to be , by making such a vast difference between him as our mediator , and as surety . answ. . tho' we mention not the word surety ( which we scruple not ) yet we did plainly express the thing designed by that word , as far as belongs to a subsequent surety in criminal causes ( tho not pecuniary ) and as is cousistent with christs being a mediator , in all his engagements and performances for us . a disregard to both which occasioneth such confused and mistaken notions concerning these doctrines . arg. . their account of a commutation is : it 's to be understood in a legal or judicial sense , as we may call it ; not that it is really so ▪ only we may so call it . answ. . as we may call it , is not opposed to really , but we use it as an apology for the term judicial added to legal , and as unscriptural ; we mean that wherein christ suffered , he was judicially dealt with , as if he had been the condemned sinners , in whose room he suffered ▪ but knowing that many give a dangerous sense of the word legal , when without explication or limitation , we added judicial thereto . answ. . the reporter might have spared saying , they 'll not quarrel about the term , may the thing they contend for be granted them . instead of complaining of a disrespect to fifty or sixty ministers , we 'll desire all our brethren were as temperate , which would end all quarrels about humane words , when the sense is granted ; nor would this disparage the reporter , who seems so fond of a set of words , as if he highly valued himself , for his discover● of them to his associates ; and therefore he will contend for them so stiffly , that neither union , orthodox explications , nor his reverence for some of us ( when useful to him ) shall signify or amount to any thing , if all his phrases be not still made use of . arg. . we apprehend this to be their meaning , because in their explication , there is not a word proper and peculiar to a commutation in a legal sense , &c. what tho' christ dyed in the person of a mediator , to answer for our violation of the law of works , yet if he dyed not in the person of sinners , to answer for them the violated law of works , he did not , he could not , make satisfaction to vindictive , or remunerative justice . answ. . we shall not insist how proper satisfaction is to remunerative justice , nor how unfair it is to argue , as if we had said , christ dyed only in the person of a mediator ( when our paper hath no such thing ) only because himself had said , our words are calculated for the meridian of such who hold so . answ. . our own words will convince the unbiassed , whether there be strength or truth in this argument ; take what we say in the second and third heads in our paper , which must be connected to express our sense . christ our mediator by agreement with the father , came into our room and stead to answer for our violation of the law of works , he being made sin for us , that knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him ; and with christ as standing in our stead , god was no otherwise displeased , than as having a will to inflict on him the punishment of our sins which he had undertaken to bear , that god might , without injury to his justice or honour , pardon and save penitent be●●●●●rs through his satisfaction , and intercession 〈◊〉 ed thereon . can any read these words , and honestly infer , that we have not a word proper to a commutation in a legal sense , or that we denyed christs satisfaction , or that christs satisfaction was impossible by the account we give thereof ? and yet we are charged in the report with each of these : but for the better information of the reader , we shall shew what our account containeth . first , the father as the offended rector proposeth , and agrees upon , terms with christ our mediator , upon which condemned sinners shall be pardoned and saved . secondly , the terms proposed and agreed are such , as sufficiently secure gods honour , and make amends to justice , so that neither are to suffer any injury by pardoning the sinner ; and they are such as answered for all our violations of the law of works , and they are such as render christs sufferings a punishment for our sins . thirdly , the father and son agree not only that these terms are sufficient , but that also they shall be accounted to us , and performed in our room and stead , we mean , vice nostra , & loco nostro ; that therein he was to answer for our violations of the law , and that we should be pardoned and saved thereupon . fourthly , upon this agreement the father as a just ruler , provoked by us sinners , doth justly inflict the punishment of our sins on christ , for satisfaction to his iustice ( which is the same , as that his justice might not be injured . ) fifthly , christ suffers those punishments in our stead , and is therein a sin-offering for us ( tho' not deputed by us ) that we might be made the righteousness of god in him . sixthly , what he suffered is a satisfaction ; his intercession is founded upon that satisfaction , for , and by , which the penitent believer is pardoned and saved : if we have not herein affirmed and explained a legal commutation , and christs suretyship in a sound sense ( tho' not the reporter's ) and affirmed christs satisfaction , yea , enumerated the essentials of it ; we despair that we ever can . and if men will not acknowledge , the reporter doth mis-represent us , and intend his phrases to be a cover for several errors , when this orthodox sense of them could not satisfy him ; we can but bewail their prejudice and partiality . answ. . we do not see why our words ( viz. ) christ dyed in our room and stead ( which he leaves out ) to answer for our violations of the law of works , &c. should not make christs satisfaction possible ; yea , and affirm it , as well as their words ( viz. ) christ put on the person of sinners and came into their room and stead , to answer for them the obligations of the violated law of works . putting on the person of sinners , can have no good sense beyond christs coming into our room and stead , which we have asserted ; the words , for them , have but the same import : and seeing the violated law obliged us to dye , for our violations of that law ; if christ in our stead answered for our violations of that law , for which it put us under those obligations to dye ; then christ dyed to answer for us the obligations of that violated law , i. e. its obligations on us to dye for our sins ; to which christs satisfaction ( which is the point in hand ) refers . answ. . from what we observe so oft repeated by the reporter , had he justly represented the third paper , and dealt sincerely , he must have reduced all his reasons and arguments to prove his heavy charge against us , and to justify the dissenters refusal of that paper , to this one argument , ( viz. ) they , who in a paper expresly affirm and explain the satisfaction of christ , omitting to mention these words , christ took upon him the person of sinners , do pervert , deny and make the satisfaction of christ imposible . but the presbyterians ( in the third paper ) expresly affirm and explain the satisfaction of christ , omitting to mention these words , christ took upon him the person of sinners ; therefore the presbyterians do in the third paper , pervert , deny , and make the satisfaction of christ impossible . upon this argument , the true weight of the reporters cause and charge doth hang ; and if the major be true , the conseqence will be , that all the churches of christ in their confessions pervert and deny , and make impossible the satisfaction of christ. for to our remembrance these words , christ took on him the person of sinners , are omitted in the confessions of all the churches ; and we had much more reason to omit them , when we knew for what end they are insisted on , by such as the reporter . arg ▪ . they impose a sense in express contradiction to the letter , and general scope of mr. williams's book , that when he saith , there is no change of persons between christ and the elect , it could not be intended as a denial of a change of persons , between christ and us in the general sense , but only in opposition to his adversary he wrote against ; for in that very place he expressly affirms , christ suffered and dyed in our room and stead ; for his words are as exclusive of a change of persons in every sense , as words can be , &c. p . to . gospel truth : first edition . answ. . mr. williams no where saith , there is not a change of persons in the plural number , but of person singular ; yet the paper as subscribed made him to say the first ; however , the report doth change it now , nor is this a small mistake with him , when he takes a change of persons , to refer thus to intelligent beings , ( viz. ) christ dying in the room of condemned sinners , which he affirms : but a change of person to denote a change , as to office , acts , qualities , adjuncts , &c. really inseparable , and peculiar to either christ on the one part , or men on the other ; as is plain by all his arguments against a change of person , p. . there is no change of person between christ and the elect , for christ was the saviour ; and never ceased to be so ; we are the saved and not the saviours , christ was the redeemer , we the redeemed and not the redeemers : christ was he who by his own merits forgives us , but never was forgiven ; we are forgiven , and never had merits of our own to forgive our selves , or others . it 's profane arrogance for us to pretend to his prerogatives , and it's blasphemy to debase him among them who were enemies without strength and sinners , for whom he was the dying sacrifice ; it 's enough that he reserving the peculiars of a redeemer , should agree to dye for our sins ; it is enough that we are pardoned for his sake , when we deserved endless woe , and are never capable of making the least attonement . here you have all which mr. williams hath written against a change of person , wherein is not a word against change of persons , and it 's evident , he took change of person in the afore-recited sense . answ. . when he confutes the sense wherein dr. crisp explains a change of person , he must in denying his sense , deny it under that phrase ( change of person ) of which the dr. gave that sense : take then the doctors words , christ himself is not so compleatly righteous , but we are as righteous as he ; nor we so compleatly sinful , but christ became as compleatly sinful as we ; that very sinfulness that we were christ is made , that very sinfulness before god ; so that here is a direct change , christ takes our person and condition , we take christs person and condition ; with much of this sort , p. . here 's the change of person which dr. crisp affirms , this is the change mr. williams denies . answ. . mr. w. is so far from denying a change of persons in the general sense , that in that book he oft asserts and proves what the orthodox intend by that phrase , yea , in the very places where he denies a change of person . see p. . . christs sufferings and obedience were so in our stead , that god cannot exact from us any other atonement for sin , p. . he thus explains the imputation of christs sufferings ; to impute to one , what is suffered by another , is to esteem the one undertaken for in the sufferings of the other , and to deal with him as if himself had suffered the same things , p. . had not christ suffered for us , we could not have been absolved for the sake of his sufferings , p. . god hath provided for his iustice and honour ( in saving true christians ) by the satisfaction of christ , p. . the punishment of our sins , yea , the guilt of them as an obligation to punishment was laid upon christ our sponsor . see p. . . what words can more distinctly and properly express the orthodox sense of a change of persons ? answ. . his cavils , p. . against mr. williams , as not affirming the sense of a change of persons , tho he say , christ suffered and dyed in our room and stead ; are weak and individious for , first , mr. williams when he had a fit occasion ( as the reporter knows ) duely asserts christs suretyship , and proves ; that christ suffered not only for our good but in our stead , and that he was a proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , see this at large , man made righteous , p. &c. secondly , the racovian catechism in the amsterdam edition ( and not only modern socinians ) affirm , christ dyed in our stead ; and socinus , crelliu● and others , asserted a change of persons between christ and us , and the sense in which the first take dying in our stead is as metaphorical , and improper , as the last do take a change of persons in . but if our reporter finds a socinian , to use a phrase explained in an ill sense by themselves , and others make use of that phrase in a contrary . sense never so expressly , his way is presently to charge upon them the use of that phrase in the socinian sense ; the same dealings towards him were equally just , when he useth the phrases the antinomians are wont to do . thirdly , after all he hath said , to make the stress of our cause against the socinians , to depend upon the terms , change of persons , &c. an insight into that controversy would convince him , that there are other things which do fa● more certainly define that controversy about the satisfaction , ( viz. ) was christ in his death , an expiatory sacrifice ? did he make atonement to the justice of god ? did christ endure the punishment of our sins ? &c. all these mr. williams in gospel truth asserts . to what 's repeated before out of that book , we will add , p. . our sins were imputed to christ with respect to the guilt thereof , so that he by the fathers appointment and his own consent became obliged as mediator , to bear the punishment of our sins , and he did bear those punishments to the full satisfaction of justice , and to our actual remission , when we believe . if he that writes thus must socinianize , none are free besides the antinomian● . but what can be safely said in the opinion of the reporter , who tells us , p. . it was a ridiculing dr. crisp , when mr. williams shewing the ground of his mistakes saith , p. . because christ suffered in our stead , that the fruit of his sufferings might be our deliverance from suffering and our being saved at last , therefore he thinks there is a change of person : which very words do evidence plainly , that mr. williams by , in our stead , allows the sound sense of a change of persons , while he opposeth dr. crisps erroneous sense of his change of person ; and that mr. w. took a change of person and a change of persons in a very different sense ; tho the disputer or reporter , seem not to distinguish between a surrogation , upon which an innocent expiates anothers crime , and his becoming the very sinning criminal ; or , to use his own metaphor with him , he that is a surety to pay the drunkards debt , must in quality , nature and condition be the drunkard too . fourthly , whatever the reporter saith of the scope , or offensiveness of that book of mr. william's , called , gospel truth stated ; those brethren whom he calleth of biggest name , who subscribed the first paper , have declared they intended not by that paper to censure the passages against which the dissenters objected ; but were so far from condemning any passage therein , that they subscribed the first paper , because they were sure , that upon enquiry it would appear , there was nothing in that book of mr. williams's contrary to the sense of that first paper ; and they still as well as formerly declare , it is an useful book , and that it 's the ca●se of truth it pleads , and have given it under their hands that the state of truth and error is not at all enlarged or changed , since they first subscribed , nor did they mean so in the first paper ; but only that there were in the book , besides the state of truth and error , several explications and arguments added thereunto ; nor indeed could the state of truth and error be enlarged or changed , because ( as it is attested by several , even of those sixteen that were the first , who subscribed to the first edition ) the book as far as it contained the state of truth and error was printed before they subscribed the attestation ; nor do we know of any of the subscribers of that attestation , who do dis-allow the said book , nor any whose names are affixed thereto without their consent — we shall conclude with these further remarks . . besides the mis-representation of the points in difference , and of the account given by us ( in the third paper ) of these doctrines , &c. we could detect great mistakes as to matters of fact ▪ some refused to subscribe the first paper , as mr. slater ; some who say they never subscribed it , as mr. barker , are yet set down as subscribers ; others are said to express their approbation of it , who vehemently declared their disallowance of it , as dr. annesley , &c. the reporter saith , he cannot learn , there are five pastors of churches dissenting from it , when it 's notorious to persons , more retired , that from the first about twenty pastors of churches assented not ; yea , we know not one of our meeting who did subscribe it , but were soon convinced that an explication of it was needful , and therefore agreed to the third paper . other mistakes might be added . . it was unjust and disingenuous , for the reporter to publish this first paper with the names of our brethren affixed thereto . they , from a zeal for union , condescended to prepare a way for it by subscribing , but then they declared they subscribed not as their conclusive act , but agreed thereto upon condition the meeting of the united ministers would approve of it , and to whom they did wholly refer it . yet he publisheth it as a consummate instrument ( tho the copy was neve deliver'd as such , and the original not at all ) and this without their conse●t , and after he knew they had laid it aside , and agreed to another paper as the instrument of union . such a course must minister jealousie , that the reporter when active in carrying on that paper ; did more design a breach among the united , than union with the dissenters , and that his disappointment produceth this report ; when he saw our union among our selves consolidated of late , and that one of our articles is to this effect , that we 'll suffer none commonly called lay-men , to preach in our pulpits . . the reporter hath no reason ▪ to glory in any of our brethrens agreement with him in doctrine , in any point wherein the first paper differs from the third : by which third paper they supply what was wanting , and explain what was doubtfull in the first paper , and determine their sense of those doctrines : nor did they ever intend the weight of their assertions should be laid upon any unscriptnrall words , but upon the orthodox sense of them , which our paper stateth . . it 's matter of grief to us , that in opposiition to the preface of both papers , law-terms and humane forms of speech , in doctrines so fully expressed in the gospel and capable of being expressed in the words used and appointed by the holy ghost , should be made engines of division among persons who agree in the sense of such phrases , and yet dare not say , that god designed to limit or extend his revelations by what such terms may signify in humane laws or usages , especially when they need explications and limitations to prevent what 's grosly erroneous ; to instance , christ took on him the person of sinners ; if it be taken in its extent , it will not only be true , that it was of all sinners , but that he took upon him all that belonged to sinners as such , and he was to be reputed as sinfull as they , yea , as all of them : but the churches of christ have been wiser than to insert such phrases into their confessions , knowing it would confound the minds and perplex the consciences of christians in points of greatest concernment to their salvation . . this report gives a pregnant instance what zeal for a party will tempt men to ; even to misrepresent persons and things , to invent and applaud slight pretences against union with their brethren , break all rules of decency in praising or dispraising men , as their turn is served ; raise endless noise and clamours , let the juncture be never so unseasonable ; nay , cover and plead for the errors of their associates , which at other times they themselves have condemned . there is occasion enough to invite our enlargement : but we design to irritate no man ; the vindication of our selves from a printed charge so severe ( as the perverting , denying and making the satisfaction of christ impossible ) is so necessary , that all men must justify our publishing this defence : without a narrative of matters of fact as to doctrines ( for other things we omit ) transacted with the brethren who left the union , our apology had been dark and imperfect ; otherwise we had mentioned nothing of that kind . it 's this reporter must bear the blame , that we are compell'd to say so much to convince the world , that if the brethren had such a disposition to peace , as we have all along expressed , the union had never been broken ; after they had made a breach we had soon re united ; and when a re-union was refused by them , we yet had lived in quietness , and prevented their heats , which have stumbled the well-meaning , and advantaged our enemies , by producing such clamorous debates , and unjust reflections and misrepresentations . we have not to our knowledge omitted any thing consistent with integrity to prevent our breaches , or to heal them . another supplicatory letter to the brethren for union was written in reply to the discouraging answer they had given to our former ; being contented to repeat those self-denying methods , which many would judge hardly meet or prudent . but this report hath prevented the sending of this letter , which was delayed by the time taken up in confirming the union among our selves . in this our answer to the report , we have for a reunion proposed to subscribe the very phrases they insist on , provided their sense may be duly adjusted , and those plain truths secured , upon which practicall godliness and a true gospel-ministry so much depend . by which proposall we hope many of our dissenting brethren , who have been imposed on , will be so undeceived , as to reunite with us , and leave such to themselves who will still divide for the sake of such errors as these brethren cannot approve , and therefore will not for the strengthening of their hands be longer contented to bear the imputation of those opinions , and contribute to the propagation of them ; neither of which can be avoided , if they continue to be of a party with those who so publickly plead for those errors , and divide from us only for defending the opposite truths . their own observation will furnish them with many more arguments at last to change their course , especially if they 'll consider where it 's like to end ; it 's already come to this pass , that with a stock of these errors , their ignorant lay-men set up for the only gospel-preachers , and are crouded after . many of their own people are so infected as to decry themselves for legalists , when they dare preach of any thing besides believers priveledges , and the priesthood of christ ; such things cannot but affect all them who mind the interest of christ above their own ; of which number we are perswaded many of the dissenters be , and will approve themselves . we conclude unfeignedly praying , that the god of peace will encrease all our light and love , that with a truly christian spirit we may joyntly serve the interest of our common lord. we shall add some reflections on a paper called , remarks , &c. which soon follow'd the report ; and too much resemble each other . but having already answer'd what 's most material , few further reflections will suffice : and we shall speak of the authors as if but one man. first , it was needful to applaud the publishing his reported paper , as refreshing to himself , p. . because it 's so offensive to all serious persons ; nor see we , how even he could be refreshed thereby , further than as he glorieth in deceiving the simple , loves divisions , and hath a prospect of attaining some mischievous purpose by our breaches . secondly , these his papers , instead of removing , do proclaim and fix that reproach upon him and his adherents , viz. that they divide for dividing sake , and know not about what they differ , p. . for he assigneth their divisions to one or two meer words or law terms , as to the sillables and letters , and not to the sense , upon which they will not openly fix their disagreement . but if he would remove this reproach , let him plainly and honestly contend for their errors which we oppose , and no longer deceive the world by impertinently nibbling at a few expressions , and from thence charging us with opinions which , he is convinced , all of us abhor . only he thinks it will be a greater reproach to acknowledge , they divide for such horrid errors , than that they divide for dividing sake , and differ about they know not what ; custome and nature being some excuse for both these . thirdly , the confidence of this remarker is more than ordinary , that p. . . can tell the world , that the points in controversy are by his paper made manifest . which , he saith , is about a change of persons . whereas this change of persons never was the whole , nor any part of the controversy between us . nota part , for it is asserted expressly by all of us in the third paper , assoon as it was objected to us , and the sound sense of it affirmed in mr. williams's book long before . far less was this the whole of the controversy ; for tho' he accounts the bottom in the first paper to be generous , because our bre●hren therein made so little provision against the crispian errors , yet we must mind him these errors gave rise to our differences , and the abettors thereof still refuse to give us satisfaction ; yea , even as to the most pernicious of their opinions . fourthly , sure he is conscious , what we must think of him , when p. , , . he heaps so many words to shew that the difference among us , concerning a commutation of persons , is not about trifles , or matters of lesser weight , but what 's essential to salvation . he cannot blame us to ask . is it the meer phrase , change of persons , or the sound ●ense of that phrase , which he saith is the corner-stone of christs satisfaction , and what 's so applauded by iustin martyr and dr. e. &c. if it be the meer phrase , all the churches of christ are condemned , because their confessions omit it . if it be the sense of the reporter and crispians , then the reverend bishop stillingfleet , grotius , dr. e. and our celebrated antisocinian authors are in as bad a case as we , for they reject that sense . but if it be the sound sense expressed by dr. edwards , as cited in the remarks , which deserves these praises , they cannot be denied to us , no not to mr. williams ; for his book asserts , ▪ not only that christs blood was shed instead of ours , his life went in exchange for ours , and that to satisfy justice and answer the law ; but also , that christs sufferings were ●unishments . you 'll presently see the judgment of the learned dr. edwards , whom he recites as a favourer of his cause against mr. williams . fifthly , if the congregational brethren have no more than their signing the first paper , to clear them from the charge of antinomianism , they must still abide under that charge . notwithstanding all that 's said , p. ▪ , . the invalidity of his reasons will appear by our answer to each . . how can their present declaration of their adhering to their approbation of the articles of the church of england , or to the confessions of faith , &c. prove , they are far from being tainted with antinomianism ? when several of them have published their antinomian opinions , both before and since the like declaration . . they do still affirm , that neither repentance nor faith are necessary to a sinners pardon , or justification before god ; but only follow that ; whatever they be to final salvation . nor doth this paper say any thing against it . . it 's palpably false , that the first paper affirms , that god doth not pardon , justify , or accept a sinner , nor entitle him to eternal life before the righteousness of christ be applyed and received by faith ( it's strange he said not before repentance too ) but it 's not true as to faith it self . the paper saith , the only righteousness for the sake of which god pardons , iustifies , or accepts sinners , or intitles them to eternal life ▪ is the a lone righteousness of christ without them , imputed to them , and received by faith alone . note , he puts applyed for imputed ( which he would not say is by faith ) and here is not so much , as that it 's only the believing sinner who is justified : but above all , he knows of his party who explains such words , by publishing , that christs righteousness when applyed and received by faith , is only for a manifestation to their consciences for their quiet , that christs righteousness had been applyed to the justification of their persons before god , long before they believed . this is all the justification by christs righteousness as received by faith ; but they were pardoned and entituled to life as much before , tho' they knew it not . and this opinion the paper denies not . . the paper saith , christ came into the room of sinners not to repent , or believe for them , which the gospel requires . the remarker knew , if the gospel requires these by its precepts , it was a slip overlook'd by such of them who deny the gospel to be a law , therefore he wordeth it , the elect are not exempt from an obligation of doing it themselves . but he as well knows they hold , there 's no obligation on them to repent or believe as a condition or term of obtaining any benefit purchased by christ ; as to that , they have nothing to do . also that it was the law of works , and that only , which commandeth faith and repentence with any sanction ; and the paper contradicteth them not . . tho the paper saith , there is not such a moral change whereby christ became inherently sinful , and we immediately sinless , yet they do and may still hold , that the filth , fault and fact of sin are so transacted on christ , that he was in gods account a very criminal , the blasphemer , &c. and that we are as righteous as christ in equality . and the legal sense of the ●●ange is such , that we are legally reputed to have made satisfaction our selves by obeying and dying ▪ because christ did it in our persons , and we did it in his person . . the paper saith , the father was not offended , much less abhorred christ , considered as he was in himself , but as in relation to us as our surety ; and the father was displeased with christ , as the guilt of our iniquities was laid upon him . and he knows his friends do hold , that god was displeased with and abhorred christ , because of the fault and filth of sin upon him as our surety ; which the paper at least forbids not . it 's worth observing , that this article was framed in opposition to one of the two only errors objected here against mr. williams's book : whose words are these : that god testified his threatned indignation against sin , in the awful sufferings of christ in his soul and body , &c. ( and that christ endured the effects of gods wrath ) yet the father was not displeased with christ , much less abhorred him because of the ●ilthiness of sin upon him , p. , . here 's the error ( and but once mentioned ) that required one of the three articles to oppose it . our third paper hath given them far more ground to make this the point in controversy , than that of change of persons ( which it asserts both as to name and sense . ) but they insist not on this , because of the odious sound of what they must assert in opposition to it . as to the remarkers hint from the assemblies words , that christ endured the weight of gods wrath ; let us mind him , that displicency is opposed to complacential love , and therefore none can be the object of gods displeasure , but one who is evil and wicked in the sight of the lord , and therefore hateful to him as such . but the effects of gods rectoral wrath may fall on christ , tho beloved as our surety , yea , who was not hated but loved for dying , according to his own voluntary engagements . review these things , and judge what a poor vindication from antinomianism the first paper affordeth . unless they ●hi●k , he must be far enough from this error , that ●●●eth the law of works to be in full force , and the only law , altho they also hold , that the elect have fulfilled this law perfectly in christ , and therefore are themselves to yield no sort of obedience in order to any benefit , or preventing of any punishment . here 's all the zeal for the law which they think enough to acquit them from antinomians , and all who think that we under the gospel are any further obliged , are to be neonomians . but. . yet as great a liberty as this paper gives antinomians to subscribe it ; observe in what a faint and dark manner they do subscribe even this poor defence ; their words are ; we are glad to find so good an agreement among us as this paper doth express . this is all . but wherein ? or how far ? or under what limitations ▪ or in hopes of what future advances this agreement is to be construed ? they have reserved sufficient liberty to explain as occasion offers ; and cannot deny the reader a leave to guess , especially when he seeth the reporter already to differ so very much from our brethren , in his explication of a change of persons , and other things contained in that paper . . but yet further , as poor a defence against antinomianism as the paper is , if plainly assented to ; and as meer a nullity as the subscription is , there were several of the congregational who refused to do even thus much ; and refused to set their hands to this . which the reporter well knows , whatever art he hath used to hear what they all have done . may not we hope upon so plain evidence . that such of our congregational brethren as are not antinomians , will be convinced , it 's necessary to do yet more for their vindication than thus signing this paper ; seeing that , not only they , who are far from being tainted with this poison , but they who are most infected may safely subscribe as it requires , and they have done , who in the adjusting of this paper could not be brought to grant , that regeneration is necessary to bring us into a good state. . notwithstanding his complement to a few subscribers , p. , , . the presbyterians need not subscribe the first paper to acquit them from the socinian slander , that they are arminians : no , nor yet from the reporters slander , that they are socinians . they have done it more effectually in the published agreement in doctrine , . they have done it yet more in the articles . which had been also published , if these dissenters could have cleared themselves of antinomianism , as the presbyterians did of arminianism . yea , they have done it as fully by the third paper as can be by the first : that retains the same words in the head of justification , and in all the rest , as far as they oppose arminianism . nay , do not we and mr. williams book , assert christs sufferings to be a punishment in satisfaction to punitive justice ? which the remarker , p. . . declares to be the distinguishing point ; are not our words , christ came into our room and stead to dye , to answer for our violations of the law of works , and that the punishment of our sins were inflicted on christ , that god might without injury to his iustice or honour , pardon sinn●rs for his satisfaction ? what a slanderous spirit acteth this man , that makes christs satisfaction to punitive justice , to be that which distinguisheth the arminians and socinians from the orthodox ? and yet ranketh us among the former , tho he knows all of us assented to the third paper , which affirmeth christs sufferings were a satisfaction to punitive justice . . but how long will this man acquit any of the presbyterians , from the slander of being arminians and socinians too ? he is sure , the world will soon know that even they of our brethren , who subscribed the first paper , have several of them framed , and the others assented to the third paper , as an explication of their sense of the ●●rs● . the reporter saith , the third paper perverts and denies the ●a●isfaction of christ , in the ac●ount given of a change of persons ; if so , he must account these brethren hereafter no other than arminians and socinians in common with the rest of us ; perhaps he 'll pro●laim them apostates too , for not adhering to the first ●aper , in opposition to the ●hird . and he is too well known for us to doubt that when it serves his turn , no presbyterian shall be sound in the faith , because he is not a crispian in doctrine . . all his artifice , p. , . hath not , nor ever can reduce the controversy among us into a narrower room than this . is repentance required by the gospel , in order to the forgiveness of sin ? and faith in christ in order to the justification of our persons before god. unless he 'll reduce it to this , is any duty on mans part required by the gospel in order to his obtaining any saving benefit , or any kind of sin , a bar to his title to any such benefits by the gospel constitution ? here 's the controversy , and the third paper is refused because it is express , for the affirmative beyond the first . . we are sorry we have so much reason to fear , that if this pretended point of a change of persons , were accommodated to the crispians liking , mr. lob would find some occasion to continue our heats and divisions , wherein he had the greatest hand under the name of a pacificator , as soon as other agents became a little quiet . what de●ign he proposeth , or some others by him , if detrimental to the common good , we hope , god will disappoint it , and at last favour such who may be repairers of our breach , and restorers of paths to dwell in . reader , note that our answer comes out so late , because the reporter published his paper , when he knew our meetings were laid down , and that we were not to come together till september . the report and answer make mention of a second paper , which to render the whole matter more plain , is here annexed , with the occasion of it . septemb. . . at a meeting of the united ministers , mr. williams spake to this effect : mr. moderator , i hear by some persons , that since our recess , there is a disposition in some of the congregational brethren to peace , if not to re-union : and that the only pretended obstacle is the want of satisfaction concerning the orthodoxness of all of us in the points of iustification , commutation of persons , and the fathers displeasure with christ. for their dissatisfaction , they instance somewhat out of my book as a denial of a commutation of persons , and insinuate as if the other two were not duly asserted . all proposals for re-union should begin with this board , nor ought particular members conclude themselves in a matter of this kind till you are consulted . but though , i confess , i know not what can be justly offered , which we have not done already , and all that concerns my book is long since adjusted ; yet that nothing may seem wanting on our part to promote peace , i would not lose the advantage of their present inclination to it . and being that only my book is objected against , i have drawn up in this paper the heads of a proposal , to be sent to p. hall , which i submit to the judgment of this board . that called the second paper . the preface is made up of what 's cited p. . out of the agreement ; and what is in the preface of the first and third papers . the three doctrinals are in these words . we declare , . of iustification , as the gospel plainly requireth repentance towards god in order to a sinner's partaking of the remission of sins , and faith in our lord jesus in order to justification , and a godly conversation in order to eternal glory , promising justification and forgiveness of sin to all penitent believers , and eternal li●e to such as persevere in faith and true holine● ; also declaring all impenitent unbelievers ( wh●le su●h ) to be in a state of condemnation . so by the same gospel it is evident , that none of these , nor any w●●k done by men , or wrought by the spirit of god in them , are under any denomination any part of th● righ●eo●sness , for the sake , or on the account whereof any blessing is merited or procured , much less justification or eternal life . but god justifies , pardons , accepts and entitles sinners to eternal life only for the sake of the righteousness of christ without them , imputed to them , and received by faith alone . . o co●mutation o●●ersons . whereas sinners were obnoxio●s to suffer the punishments threatned by the law for their transgressions ; the lord jesus by his compact with the father , became our mediating surety ▪ and as such , he obeyed the law , and our punishments were judicially transferred on him ; which for our redemption he endured in our room and stead , to the satisfaction of justice , that we m●ght be justified when we believe , and be dealt with accordingly . nevertheless we deny that by a commutation of persons there is such a reciprocal change of condition betwixt christ and sinners , or such an imputation , or translation of qualities , as implies that christ was as sinfull as we , and we as righteous as christ. and though we assert that christ hath undertaken the elect shall in due time repent and believe , yet we deny that christ came into the room of the elect to repent or believe for them , or that believers are accounted to have done and suffered what christ did , or that they are justified by the law of works — see more in the next head. . of the ●athers being dis●leas●d with christ ; ( thoug● the phrase be not proper , yet we declare ) the lord jesus having engaged in the covenant of redemption , as our mediation surety , to suffer the punishment of our sins for the expiating thereof : he did bear the guilt of our iniquities , to suffer as sinners suffer , and to be dealt with as god threatned to deal with them whom he is displeased with , as far as was consistent with christ's being innocent , and one who became subject to those punishments by his own consent in obedience to the father , and for the redemption of sinners . and therefore christ was under the wrath of god , as that was his will to punish him ; yea he endured the weight of that wrath in the punishment of our sins ; which sins , as to the obligation to endure those punishments , were laid on christ ; it pleased the lord to bruise him , having laid on him the iniquities of us all . but we deny that our sins , as to their fil●h or fault , were transferr'd on christ , or that he was inherently , or in legal esteem , or looked on by the father as one contrary to his holy nature and will , either as he was our surety , or in any other respect . and therefore if by displeased with c●ri●t , is meant , that the father hated or abhorred christ ( which is proper only to one evil in the sight of the lord ) because of our sins imputed to him ; so the father was not displeased with christ. but on the contrary , the father was always well-pleased with him , at all times accounting him ( even as our high priest ) holy , harmless , undefiled and separate from sinners ; and therefore such , when he offer'd himself an expiating sacrifice ; yea , for that he loved him . then follows mr. william's concurrence in these three points , with citations at large out of his book that he had oft affirmed the very same , and that the places objected did not at all contradict any of these things . and then further declareth , that as he had oft proposed it , so now he is willing to an union with the dissenting brethren , either by mutual forbearance , wherein we differ in judgment ; or if satisfaction be insisted on as to any other expressions that have been or shall be objected out of any of his books ( where he knows nothing but what is orthodox ) he is willing to give it in the same time and manner as mr. cole , mr. mather , mr. chauncy , mr. trayl , &c shall be obliged to give satisfaction as to many material exceptions he hath made , and shall yet make , to what they have published in their books . but otherwise he will no farther concern himself , but keep to the vo●e past , sept. . . notwithstanding that now for peace-sake , he hath waved the demand thereof in answering the above mentioned exceptions , when they are not required to do the like . lastly , there is the form of words for the subscribers of mr. williams's book which you have before , p. cited out of the agreement : only with this addition , that mr. w. did not write his book , nor they subscribe the approbation with any design to oppose our congregational brethren as such , or to divide from them . this paper was read and received ; but mr. w. desired it might be waved , when a proposal was made by a subscriber of the first paper , that we should draw up the third paper out of this and another paper , called the first ; which were both voted to be laid aside , altho that called the first ●aper was never read in the meeting , nor once proposed to be received there . a letter from the right reverend dr. stillingfleet , bishop of worcester , in answer to one from mr. williams , who desired his iudgment as to the following questions ; because his lordship's book is in the first paper , a●d the report pleaded against mr. williams . sir , i return you thanks for the papers you were pleased to send me ; by which i am able to understand something more than formerly , of the present state of the difference about the change of persons between christ and us : but i shall meddle no farther in it than i am obliged to do it in answer to the questions you propose to me . and i wish i may be able to do any service therein . the first is about my sense of commutation of persons . it is said in the first paper , that i do with g●otius expressly affirm and irre●ragably prove it with the common sentiment of protestants , and that the doctrines of iustification and christs satisfaction , cannot be duely explained and defended consistently with the denial of any commutation of persons between christ and believers . this had been fairly represented , in case there could be no other sense of commutation of persons than what is asserted by dr. crisp , but there is a fold sense of it , very different from each other . . such a change of persons as implies that one is appointed and allowed to act on behalf of others , and for their advantage ; and this sort of commutation of persons the socinians never denied ; as i have shewed in the discourse of s●tisfastion . p. . ▪ . it is not therefore the use of the words , but the sense of them is to been enquired into for some may affirm a change of persons , and yet be socinians ; and others may deny a change , and be far enough from socinianism , according to the sence in which they are understood . . such a change of persons as supposes one to be substituted in the place of others to become an attonement for the● in order to their redemption and deliverance . and when such a substitution is by the will of god and consent of the person who suffers ; here is a real change of persons as to that particular end with is designed by it . and in this sense i did assert a change of persons between christ and us , because by the will of the father and his own consent , he became a sacrifice of propitiation for our sins in order to their remission , and our recontiliation with god on such terms as are declared in the gospel ; as may be seen at large in the discourse already mentioned , particularly ch . . § . . such a change of persons as implies an actual tra●●lation of the personal guilt of all the sins of believers on christ , and his personal righteousness on them , without regard to any conditions on their part , but meerly by the free grace and favour of god. and this i take to be dr. crisp's sence of the change of persons ; of which i shall discourse when i come to the last question . but the authors of the first paper and of the report , p. . seem to take it for granted that there can be but one sense of commutation of persons ; wherein they do not discover their profound knowledge in these matters , if they thought so ; or their ingenuity , if they knew otherwise , and designed to impose upon those who did not . for it appears that there is a sense i● which it may and ought to be denied , without the least prejudice to the doctrine of christ's satisfaction . although that cannot be explained or defended without some kind of commutation of persons ; yet it very well may and ought to be defended without and against dr. crisps sense of it , as will be made appear afterwards . the author of the report , p. . saith , this is the very hinge on which the controversy between the orthodox and socinian doth turn ; which shews him to be not very deeply skilled in it ; for the hinge of the controversy is not about the words , but the sense of commutation of persons : and even the sense is not the original controversy , but consequential , upon our asserting christs sacrifice to be a propitiation for our sins ; for upon this they ask how the act of one person can be so benificial to others ? and to that we answer , that altho one man's act cannot become anothers , yet if by consent both of the father and son , he becomes our mediatour , and suffers in our stead , in order to our reconciliation , then as to that end and purpose , here is a change of persons : for whereas in strictness we ought to have suffered the desert of our own sins , god was pleased to accept of his suffering instead of ours , and so by virtue of that propitiation we hope for the remission of sins and the favour of god , according to the terms of the gospel . and therein consists the true controversy between the socinians and us : viz. whether the sufferings of christ were to be considered as a punishment for our sins , and as a propitiatory sacrifice to god for them ; o● only as an act of dominion over an innocent person in order to his advancement to glory . but it is said in the ●eport ▪ p . that if there be no change of persons between christ and us , there can be no translation o● the guilt , nor a just infliction of the punishment of our sins on christ ; that is , there can be no prope● satisfaction . to this i answer , that there is a twofold translation of guilt to be considered . . of the personal guilt , which results from the acts of sin committed by such persons . if this guilt be translated , christ must become the very person who committed the sins ; and so he must be looked on not only as an actual sinner , but as the person that committed all the sins of those for whom he died : which comes so near to horrid blasphemy , that i wonder persons that bear any reverence to our blessed saviour do not abhorr ●he very thoughts of it . . of legal guilt , which lies in the obligation to punishment , by virtue of the sanction of the divine law. now this guilt implies two things ; . the desert of punishment which follows personnal guilt , and cannot be transferred by a change of persons ; for no man can cease to deserve punishment for his own faults ; nor deserve that another should be punished for them . . the obligation to undergo the deserved punishment , but because the execution of punishment depends both on the wisdom and justice of the legislatour ; therefore here a change of persons may intervene , and by the wisdom and justice of god a mediatour may be accepted in such a manner as himself determines , and upon the acceptante of his sacrifice the offenders may be pardon'd and received into the grace and favour of god , on such terms as he hath declared in the gospel . and in this sense the guilt of our sins was charged upon christ as our mediatour , who was to bear the punishment of our sins ; so as by virtue of his sufferings , we may not only hope to escape the just punishment of our offences , but to be admitted into the privileges of the children of god. but the reporter out of a certain manuscript gives another account of commutation of persons , viz. that commutation in a legal sense is the same with a proper surrogation , where the surety puts on the person , and stands in the quality , state and condition of the debtor , and lies under the same obligation to answer for him . but this i have shewed long since to be a very wrong notion of christs satisfaction ; and which in effect gives up the cause to the socinians : for if sins be considered as debts , god may freely forgive them ( without disparagement to his wisdom and justice ) without any satisfaction : and the right of punishment then depends on god● absolute dominion ; and satisfaction must be by way of compensation ; of whiah i have treated at large , ch. . § . . ul● . but i cannot but wonder at the learned author of the m. s. that he doth at the same time assert our sins to be considered as debts , and the necessity of vindictive iustice : for , what vindictive justice belongs to a creditor ? may not a creditor part with his own right , and forgive what and whom he pleases , without any violation of justice ? i can hardly think , that those who write so rudely and inconsistently , ever penetrated into these matters in their own thoughts ; but only take up with a sett of phrases and common expressions among those they converse with , which they look on as the standard and measure of truth about these matters . but he finds fault with some men who hold that christ only suffered in the pe●son of a mediatour , and not in the person of sinners . what is the meaning of this ? i had thought , that a mediatour interposing for that end , that by his sufferings there might be a propitiation for sins , did so far sustain the person of sinners , as to take upon himself the punishment of their sins , and procure grace and favour for them . but if he means any thing beyond this , he must explain himself . christ suffered in the person of sinners . is it that he suffered that others might not suffer ? that is not denied by those who say that christ suffered in the person of a mediatour . for a mediatour is a publick person , and acts in the stead and on the behalf of others ; and if this be called sustaining the person of sinners , i suppose they will not quarrel with the expression . but if more be meant by it , viz. that the personal guilt of sinners , in dr. cris●s sense , is transferred upon christ , that they have to deny ; as i hope to make it appear in answer to the third question . the d question is , whether the author of gospel truth stated , viz. mr. williams be chargeable with socinianism , in what he said , p. . ? the charge stands thus in the report , p. . that he saith , there is no change of persons between christ and sinners : which is there said to be inconsistent with the doctrine of christ's satisfaction ; which must suppose a commutation of persons . ●nd therefore he that denies any change , cannot assert the doctrine of satisfaction . this is the force of the objection . and being desired to give my opinion of it , i examin'd and compared several passages in that book , that i might judge truely and impartially concerning it . and i found the author , p. . saying concerning the difference with dr. crisp , that it was not whether christ had made full attonement for sin ; which he thereby owned to be his sense . and p. . more fully he owns that our sins were imputed to christ with respect to the guilt thereof , so that he by the fathers appointment , and his own consent , became obliged as mediatour to bear the punishments to the full satisfaction of iustice and to our actual remission when we believe . can any thing be more clear and express against socinianism than this ? there are other passages , p. . . . &c. to the same purpose , but these are sufficient to shew , that he could not absolutely deny any commutation of persous but in what words doth he deny it ? for it is possible there may be such words used as may restrain and limit the sense ; and then it is very hard to force such a sense upon them , as is inconsistent with what he had said before , for no man loves to contradict himself ; especially , when he knows what advantage will be taken by it . the words are these , p. the difference lies in these points . . whether there be a change of person between christ and the elect ? yea , or betwi●t christ and believers . this the doctor affirms , and i deny . how can any persons , in common ingennity , understand this otherwise , than that he deni●d such change of persons as dr. crisp affirmed ? but against this it is urged by the author of the ms. in the report , p. . that his denial of a change of persons , is so express and ●ull ▪ as leaves no room for any distinction , limitation or restriction , or for an owning it in any sense . what! not in the sense that himself had owned it in before ? this is very hard ; especially when he mentions what the doctor affirmed ●nd he denied ▪ there is a very good passage to this purpose in the first paper , mentioned in the report , p. . not thinking it reasonable or just to charge upon any brother such consequences of any expression or opinion of his , which he himself shall disown . why then should such a sense be charged upon him , which he disowns at the same time ? there must be something farther in this matter , than appears to an indifferent and impartial reader ; what it is , is no part of my business to enquire . but that which must give the best light into it , will be the resolution of the last question . the d question is , concerning dr. crisp's sense of the change of persons , whether it be true or false ? which , i s●ppose , is truly set down by the author of the gospel-truth stated ; in these words , p. . mark it well , christ himself is not so compleatly righteous , but we are as righteous as he ; nor we so compleatly sinful , but christ became , being made sin , as sinful as we ; nay , more , we are the same righteousness ; for we are made the righteousness of god ; that very sinfulness that we were , christ is made that very sinfulness before god. so that here is a direct change , christ takes our person and condition , and stands in our stead , and we take christ's person , and stand in his stead . here is indeed a change of persons supposed , but i do not find it proved ; and therefore is only to be look'd on as an imaginary change , which it is possible for men to fancy ; but that is no ground to build a matter of faith upon ; and such as the salvation of their souls is so nearly concerned in . but to deliver my opinion freely and distinctly about it , i shall shew , . that it hath no foundation in scripture . . that it is contrary to the tenour of it , and the terms of salvation contained in the gospel . . that it is attended with very bad consequences , which naturally follow from it . . that it hath no foundation in scripture for which i desire it may be considered , that our blessed saviour himself in all his preaching , who came to reveal the will of god to mankind , saith nothing at all of it : and can any possibly think that he would omit such a point , wherein , i perceive , some do think the substance of the gospel is conta●ned ? all that our saviour saith to this purpose , is , that he came to give his life a ransom for many , mat. . . and that his blood was shed for many for the remission of sins , mat. . . what other change of persons is herein implied , but that of a ransom , and a sacrifice of propitiation ? he that knew best for what end he suffered , saith not one word of his taking upon himself the person of sinners , in any other sense than as he suffered in their stead , and for their advantage . here is nothing like his being as compleatly sinful as we ; and our being made as righteous as he . and yet certainly he communicated to his disciples those points on which their justification and salvation depended . but how could they apprehend any such change of persons in this sense , from any words used by himself to them ? and all necessary points of faith were deliver'd by our saviour to his disciples : and therefore to make such a change of persons necessary , and yet not mention'd by him , is to charge him with failing in his prophetical office , which all those ought to consider , who lay such stress upon this matter . but doth not st. paul say , that god hath made him to be sin for us , who knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him ? cor. . . i grant he doth so . but do not these words imply such a change of persons as dr. crisp asserts ? by no means , which i thus prove : dr. crisp's notion of the change of persons , supposes the benefits of this change to be antecedent to any conditions on our side , viz. that it was by a transaction between the father and the son , without regard to any act of ours : but when the apostle speaks of christ's being made sin for us , and our being made the righteousness of god in him ; he supposes , that before we can have the benefit of it , we must be first reconciled to god , which is an act on our part. for to this purpose he saith , v. , . that after the reconciliation made by christ at his death , he had given to the apostles the ministry of reconciliation . to what purpose ? was it only to let them know what christ had already done for mankind ? that were to set up a ministry of consolation for believers ; but not of reconciliation . but the apostle lays great force upon it , that god had committed to them the word of reconciliation . now then , saith he , we are ambassadors for christ , as though god did beseech you by us , we pray you in christ's stead , be ye reconciled to god , v. . they were by this ministry of reconciliation , after what christ had done and suffered , prayed ; and with great earnestness , to be recon●iled to god ? to what end ? if according to this change of persons , they were more than reconciled to god already , if they were true believers ; for they were as righteous as christ himself , and therefore must be in the grace and favour of god. if they were not believers , then , according to this scheme of the change of persons , they could have no benefit by it ; and consequently , this ministry of reconciliation , is wholly subverted , as to the great purpose and design of it . for either they were reconciled already , or they never could be . and yet the apostle , after those words , v. . immediately subjoyns ch. . . we then as workers together with him , beseech you also , that ye receive not the grace of god in vain . what can the meaning of these words be , if dr. crisp's sense of the change of persons hold good ? can they who are compleatly righteous , ever receive the grace of god in vain ? and to what purpose doth he speak of their working together with god , and beseeching them not to do a thi●g utterly impossible ? for it would be to undo what had long since been done between the father and the son in the change of persons . so that this notion of the change of persons is as different from st. pauls , as may be ; for that supposes no conditions on our side ; and the ministry of reconciliation in st. paul , is wholly founded upon it , and really signifies nothing , as to the ends he proposes without it . for to what purpose is that appointed to perswade men to be reconciled to god , if all that ever shall be admitted to heaven were long since reconciled at the death of christ , and they were made as compleatly righteous as christ himself ? it may be said , that the ministry of reconciliation is not useless , because it is the means whereby god doth ●ffectually convey his grace into the hearts of believers . but this cannot satisfy any one that considers st. pauls expressions : for his words are , we pray you in christs stead , be ye reconciled to god. if he had said , that god had made christ to be sin for you already , and you as righteous as christ was ; how would it have looked to have said after this , we pray you to be reconciled to god ? for , what need they any reconciliation , who were already so much in his favour ? but is there no change of persons then implied in those words of st. paul ; who made him to be sin for us , who knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him ? yes certainly . such a change , whereby christ did undergo the punishments of our sins ; and so erasmus observes , that christ is not called a sinner here , as dr. crisp would have it , but sin ; i. e. a sacrifice for sin , according to the scripture sense : and we are made the righteousness of god in him , i. e. that god upon the account of his sacrifice , and our reconciliation to him , would treat us as righteous persons ; or receive us into his grace and favour ; which is all that i can find that st. paul understood by this expression . . i am now to shew , that this notion of the change of persons , which dr. crisp asserts , is contrary to the whole tenour of the scripture , and the terms of salvation contained in the gospel . i am sensible how large a field i am enter'd upon : and if i should pursue this matter as it deserves , it would take up much more room than i can allow to this answer . i could easily prove that in all the transactions between god and mankind , some conditions on our side were required in order to his favour . so it was in the state of innocency ; so it continued after mans fall , as appears by those remarkable words of god to cain ; if thou doest well , shalt thou not be accepted ? if thou doest not well , sin lieth at the door , gen. . . so it was in gods dealing with the patriarchs , and the most excellent persons in the old testament , abraham , moses , david , iob , &c. but i pass over these , ( altho' i suppose they will not be denied to have been of the elect , and to have had the benefit of christs righteousness as well as christians ) and come to the terms of salvation , as declared by christ himself . let any one seriously peruse the doctrine which he preached from the time , when he began to preach and to say , repent , for the kingdom of heaven is at hand , mat. . . and he shall find the main business of his preaching was to put men upon performing such conditions , as were necessary to their salvation : and for that reason . as may be seen in his sermon on the mount , in which he begins with promising blessedness to the humble , merciful , pure in heart , mat. . , . &c. what do these things mean , if they be not conditions on our parts necessary in order to happiness ? and that they are considered by god as such ? why doth he say , except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees , ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven , mat. . if such a righteousness , be not a condition required in order to such entrance ? and if it be , no change of persons without inward and real righteousness can be sufficient . our saviour doth not speak of what will be eventually in some persons , but of what is required to be done in order to an end. and therefore he concludes his sermon with saying , whosoever heareth these sayings of mine and doth them , i will liken him to a wise man , who built his house upon a ●ock , &c. mat. . . not he that believes that he is one of those who is made compleatly righteous by a change of persons , without any change of temper or disposition of mind : he never promises the least degree of happiness to such ; but still insists on our own endeavours , by striving to enter in at the straight gate , which st. paul calls , working out our own salvation with fear and trembling , and st. peter , giving all diligence to make our calling and election sure . for , saith he , if ye do these things ye shall never fall. do not these expressions note the necessity of the performance of conditions on our side ? and therefore all imaginary notions of such a change of persons , as hath no regard to any acts of ours , is wholly repugnant to the main scope and design of the gospel . i meddle not with the dispute about the mortal law , which must continue to oblige us as long as the reason of it continues ; but the main argument to me is from the gospel , as it is delivered by christ and his apostles , who certainly understood the substance and design of it far better than dr. crisp , or the reporter doth . what was transacted between the father and the son , we know no more than they have revealed to us ; and we know they had no design to impose upon mankind , by laying so much weight upon such conditions as god had no regard to ; and by concealing from them such a change of persons as made them compleatly righteous without any act of theirs . men could never be reconciled to the just veneration and esteem we have of the sacred penmen of the scriptures , nor to their knowledge of the mysteries of the gospel , nor to their fidelity in declaring them for the good of mankind . so that if we find nothing of this change of persons in their writings , and so much as is utterly inconsistent with it , we have all the reason in the world to reject it . this notion of the change of persons is attended with very bad consequences . which i do not charge on those who do not see them , or are carrried by some higher principles above them ; but we are not to judge of persons but of things , and the natural tendency of principles . and so the change of persons in this sense hath these very had consequences : that it is apt to lessen our reverence of the divine perfections ; our just sense of the differences of good and evil ; our obligations to all sorts of duties ; it tends to the disparagement of that free grace they pretend to exalt ; and exposes the gospel to the reproach and contempt of infidels , and leaves the minds of those who embrace it , under great temptations to presumption . these things i can only mention , because you des●red a short answer to your questions , and i have brought it into as narrow a compass as i could . i am sir , your faithful friend and servant , ed. wigorn . nov. . . the learued doctor edwards's answer to the same three questions ; in a letter to mr. williams ; occasioned by mr. lob's remarks . wherein he pretends the doctor 's preservative against socinianism , condemns mr. williams's iudgment concerning a change of persons . sir , i have perused the passages which you refer to , ( viz. gospel-truth stated , p. , . the places objected among the rest ) besides severel other parts of your books , though i have not as yet had leisure sufficient to read them over ; however i have read enough to know your opinion , and to understand how you state the matter in debate between you and your antinomian adversaries ; and thereby am sufficiently instructed to answer your queries to the first therefore i say , that when speaking of the sufferings of our saviour , i assert , as other divines usually do , a permutation of persons : i mean no more than what you affirm ; viz. that christ not only died for the good , but likewise vice , or loco peccatorum , in the room and place of sinners . but whe● we assert an exchange , or permutation of persons , this must always be understood under such restrictions and limitations as may help us to avoid those two dangerous errors which the antinomians have fallen into . and therefore , first , we must affirm , we mean no more thereby then an obligation to punishment , which he no otherwise contracted then by his own free and voluntary consent and undertaking , to undergo that punishment which the law threatned , and our sins deserved , viz. death . but this must by no means be so far misconstrued , as to imagine that thereby the filth and turpitude of our sins were transferred upon him : for tho in the former sense , he is said to be made sin for us ; yet in the latter he still continued holy , harmless , undefiled , separate from sinners , and at an eternal distance from them . neither , secondly , must this permutation be extended so far as to imply a reciprocal exchange of persons , viz. of us sinners , into the room and place of christ ; as if god did look upon us as doing all that christ did , and consequently , that we do merit pardon , attone justice , compleatly satisfy and fulfill the law , so that we are actually discharged from punishment without more ado . no , we continue still under the sentence of the law , notwithstanding all that christ did to free us from it , till we perform those conditions upon which the application of pardon is suspended . the immediate therefore effect and consequence of the permutation which we are speaking of , is only this , that christ by dying in our room , had so far reconciled us to his father , as that he is willing to pardon and admit us to his favour , provided that we on our parts perform the conditions of the new covenant , viz. repentance and faith. for tho christ by dying for us hath merited our pardon , yet it still continues so far in his own power , as that he will not dispose of it , but upon such terms as have been agreed upon between him and his father ; which indeed are no other then such , as without which we are neither capable of pardon , nor can god in honour bestow it upon us . to apply pardon to a sinner while he continues in his obstinacy and impenitence , is not only contrary to the holyness of god , but inconsistent with his wisdom , and destructive of his authority and government . and therefore the graces before mentioned must be looked upon by us , to be both the necessary parts of every christians duty , and the indispensible conditions of his happyness . ( in another letter ) i intend no more by an exchange of persons , than what you have affirmed in your writings . as to your second query , i judge those assertions and acknowledgments frequently made by you in your books concerning the sufferings of christ , and the satisfaction thereby made to the justice of god for the sins of men , do fully acquit you from giving any countenance to the errors of socinus in that point . ( in another letter ) you have very rightly , and in an orthodox manner stated the doctrine of christs satisfaction : and it is in perfect agreement with the doctrine of our own and all the reformed churches , and therefore fully acquits you from the imputation of socinianism . thirdly , as to the doctrine of dr. crisp and others of that sect , who affirm such a permutation of persons between christ and sinners ; as if to all intents and purposes , they were to be looked upon in the room and place of each other ; so that christ is to be accounted the swearer , drunkard , blasphemer on one hand , and the sinner to be perfectly righteous on the other ; i cannot but look upon it to be not only false , absurd , impossible , but likewise an impious and blasphemous opinion ; as being highly dishonourable to our saviour , repugnant to the wisdom and justice of god , and tends plainly to subvert the whole design of christianity ; which is hereby exposed to the just and unanswerable reproaches of its adversaries , which can never be wiped off , if the opinion be true . i would say a great deal more upon this occasion , if it were necessary , but what i have thus briefly suggested , may i suppose be sufficient for your present purpose . and if you think that what i have wrote may be any way serviceable to the common cause of our holy religion , i give you leave to make what use you think fit of it ; and in the mean time remain sir , your assured servant , jonathan edwards ▪ iesus coll. oxon. oct. . . i had not given this trouble to these great men ; but that mr. lob makes frequent use of their testimony against my judgment , in favour of them whom i oppose . and being no authors better understand , and more effectually oppose socinianism , i was sure their vindication of me would be past exception , and therefore made bold to propose to them , whether they intended more by a commutation of persons than i did affirm in my books ( which i sent them . ) secondly , whether i was by the passages excepted against in my book ( by the first paper and mr. lob ) chargeable with socinianism . thirdly , what their judgment was concerning that change of persons which i oppose , and dr. crisp and others of that sect affirm . to these questions they were pleased to send these answers , with a permission to print them . i think , every man will conclude from what they say , that they account our holy religion is struck at by what errors i oppose ; and that mr. lob doth wrest their books when he cites them in confutation of what i affirm . i might have added another letter of this r. r. bishop to the same effect , and wherein he proves that god was not displeased with christ : and also of the said reverend doctor edwards . but these published abundantly suffice . some animadversions on mr. lob's defence of the report . by d. w. note , i call the author of the rebuke , mr. r. though i have the testimony of the ministers and elders of all the dissenting congregations in dublin ( except one ) for my peaceableness and diligence in the promoting of union there ; yet being industriously branded as the great divider in this place , it 's necessary to represent the cause of mens mistakes . to me is ascribed the rise of our divisions , because at the request of several ministers , after other means were unsuccessful , i wrote gospel-truth stated ; when dr. crisp's re-printed book so obtained as to threaten● our ministry . the continuance of our breaches i am charged with , on no better pretence than this , a beaten man makes all that noise which proceeds from the furious blows that fall upon his person . i consented to that expedient . wherein all objected against my book was adjusted , and gave no cause for the objectors to violate that agreement . mr. chauncy , mr. t. mr. k. mr. e. &c. wrote volumes against that book ; to all which i replied in a defence of six sheets ; thinking that sufficient , and in hopes some rest might be obtained by silence . mr. m. revives the assault with a charge of blasphemy and damning errors ; this extorted one small book more . then by contrivances i was voted out of the lecture at pinners-hall . whereupon dr. bates , mr. how , mr. alsop and my self , remove to salters-hall . about two months after this my morals ( upon a search back to my childhood ) are impeached , the united ministers unanimously adjudged and declared me clear and innocent of all that was laid to my charge . i forbear recriminations against many , for which i am furnished . the same book comes again upon the stage with mr. lobs objections , which i answered in one sheet . mr. lob rejoineth , but at the reverend doctor bates request , i laid aside a book ready for the press . the doctor and i fully agree in sense , notwithstanding he had used some phrases which mr. lob hoped to divide us by . they stop not here , as the result of many private meetings with my adversaries ; a paper is gotten subscribed ( when i was at bath ) by some at least of my friends , who fully agreed with me in doctrine . herein there were several mistakes in matters of fact refering to the subscription to my book , many insinuated reflections ( not designed by all ) against the doctrine of that book , with such ambiguities and omissions , as endangered the truths by me defended , and those terms proposed to me , which might startle a man they had no power over , and justly expected better treatment at least from such whose cause i pleaded . yet when this paper was laid aside , and the third paper agreed to , i sate still , tho i knew that first paper ( unprinted ) was sent through the nation to my great detriment . might not one expect some quiet after such various attempts against this book and its author ? ( which i do not ascribe to the congregational , as a body , nor had i mentioned most of these things , if i were not charged with all our divisions . ) my hopes are disappointed ; mr. lob printeth his report , wherein the united ministers for my sake are branded for socinians , and therein inserts that unhappy paper . nay , he soon follows this with his remarks , to fasten his charge the deeper upon me . stops he here ? no , in this his defence i am still pelted , my doctrine grossly arraigned , the learned mr. r. censured as a socinian for defending me . my book sustains the clamour , because it denies the crispian change of person , nay , he hopeth it hath some invisible evil thing within its bowels , which if i do not bring forth ( for no bodv else can ) i must be one offensive and halting , p. . nay , as if first in intention , the last words in his book are , whether mr. williams be sincere or no , he must now shew it ; finis . the english of this is , if i be sincere i must shew my self erroneous , that they may have somewhat to justify their past clamours ; for as yet they can prove nothing , and yet ( will you not wonder ) he gives me , p. . more hopes of their charity and communion , if i will but write errors plainly , than they can now allow me when i assert the opposite truths . am not i in a streight ? he and others call and provoke me to write , ( and they might do it long enough , if the interest of the gospel , and such injuries to my friend assisted not their calls . ) yet if i write , i shall be deem'd , the cause of all our divisions : but so 't will be if i write not ; nay , if i be not felo de se. i shall therefore adventure , so pressed by mr. lob , to give him some hasty thoughts . i may well call it an adventure , for i foresee , unless he is much changed since he wrote this defence , he will mis-represent what is written with the greatest caution , and if his readers shall think him a fair adversary , he is sure to have the better of any man , as will soon appear . mr. lob , p. . the phrase of a change of christs person was never invented , till the gentleman who engaged my brother to enter upon this sorrowful undertaking , started it . and to speak the truth , it 's a phrase only adjusted , to express no more than what the socinians do constantly grant , for they say that christ , tho he suffered not the punishment due to us for sin , yet he endured grievous and dolorous pains , which is aptly enough expressed , when it is said , there was a change of christs person for us , for he was , say these hereticks , changed from ease to pain for our good . note , . the phrase , change of person , was used by dr. crisp , and therefore not invented by me , ( whom he meaneth ) it 's from him i cited it . . is it so ill a phrase , and serves only a socinian purpose ? then mr. lob should not make me a socinian , only for denying this phrase . he saith , ( and that when he will speak the truth ) it 's adjusted only to express what the socinians constantly grant , and yet quarrels me for denying this dangerous expression . . if this bad phrase , change of person , and that good phrase change of persons differ so far as heterodox and orthodox ; did not mr. lob deal unfairly all this while , in telling the world i denied that good phrase change of persons , only because i had denied this bad phrase change of person ? for i assure you , i no where deny a change of persons in the plural number ( tho according to his liberty he saith i did , p. . ) and i fully assert the sound sense of it , as the r. r. the bishop of worcester and the reverend dr. edwards do witness , and they are men he makes great use of in his book , as very sound in this point : but being more concerned for my friend , mr. rebuker , i shall with this place , begin an account of some of the stabbing injuries he receives from mr. lob , with an art thou in health my brother ? . mr. lob makes mr. r — here to say ( with the socinians ) that there was a change only in the person of christ , without an exchange at all with sinners ▪ because mr. r. saith , there was a change of the person of christ , in exchange for the persons of sinners ( tho not reciprocally in all respects ) this is plain ; for a meer change from ease to pain , is only a change in christs person , p. . he saith , my brother is in good earnest only for a change of christs person , without a change between christ and us : when reb. p. . this phrase the change of the person of christ , hath truly an honest sound sense , viz. the substitution of one person in the room of another ; and a proper redemption may be obtained by the punishment of one in the room of another — if therefore christs dying by way of change , or exchange , be all they would have , it s granted , &c. ] yet from this very place mr. lob infers , as above . . mr. lob represents mr. r. to hold with the socinians , that christ suffered only so for our good , as not to suffer truly in our stead . because mr. r. affirmed , that christs suffering properly in our stead was for our good . mr. lob saith , p. . whatever my brother intends , it 's manifest , that while he calls the socinian sense of christs dying in our stead , knavish — he gives the very sense of this phrase , which the socinians who use it do give , and by it means ( if we may judge his meaning by his words ) no more than what socinus crellius , and that fraternity do consistently with a denial of christs satisfaction constantly grant . he saith worse the lines before . see also , p. . and times repeats , &c. the place he grounds this upon is , reb. p. . [ the caviller proceeds , in our place and stead , with some signify no more , than for our good ; why , it 's impossible they should : that which christ suffered in our stead is for our good , to bear the punishment of our sins , to satisfy divine iustice , was certainly for our good , &c. therefore for our good because in our stead . ] reader , is not christs bearing the punishment of our sins to satisfy divine justice , suffering properly in our stead ? and is suffering properly in our stead , and suffering in our stead in the socinian sense , ( viz. improperly and not at all ) the same thing ? but mr. r. said , it 's impossible in our stead , should signify any more than for our good . i answer , that it is considered with respect to our concernment therein , as it is a benefit designed for us ; but not to exclude its being in our place and stead , which he fully asserts , and without which we had been ruined for ever . is not mans chief end to be happy in the enjoyment of god ? and doth not christs dying properly in our stead subserve that end ? mr. lob might better say , mr. r. denied that christs dying in our stead was for gods glory , to which our good is subordinate , than that he denied that christ dyed properly in our stead , because as to our own felicity it did no more than subserve it , or was it for our hurt , or could it be more beneficial to us than for our good , for it 's only as to our benefit he applies the words . . mr. lob represents mr. r. to deny ( with the socinians ) that christs sufferings are a proper punishment for our sins : when mr. r. doth most expressly assert , that christs sufferings were the punishments of our sins , for satisfaction to the vindicative justice of god. mr. lob , p. . agreeably hereto ( the socinians trifling in a wretched sense , and rejecting of phrases to make christs sufferings not penal ) my brother , as he rejects the phrases of sustaining the person of sinners , and puts an unsound sense on christs suffering in our place and stead ; so that word ( answering the obligation of the violated law ) which was in the first paper , to make it evident that we esteemed christs sufferings to be proper punishments , is rejected ; as what cannot in my brothers opinion bear a sound sense . this charge that mr. r. denies christs sufferings to be punishments , he imposeth in very many pages . whereas mr. r. saith , p. . christ did bear the punishment of our sins to the satisfaction of iustice , p. . and it 's freely granted that christ suffered and dyed for the persons of sinners , and for the sins of their persons , and in the room and stead of their persons ; and that he suffered and dyed to make satisfaction to the iustice , to the vindicative iustice of god , &c. what pretends mr. lob against so full conviction ? no other than that we by the third paper rejected this phrase , obligations of the violated law : but this is not true , we only waved it , and mr. r. saith no more . but mr. lob saith , the phrase which we put in its stead , viz. christ came to answer for sinners violation of the law of works , differs as much from their phrase , answering for us the obligations of the violated law of works , as a gospel truth and a socinian error , p. . one would think it 's still a true phrase after his mangling it . but pray take it as in our paper . christ came into our room and stead to answer for our violations of the law ( add what follows ) and the punishment of our sins was inflicted on christ , that god might without injury to his justice pardon and save penitent believers . is this a socinian error ? or , is a word wanting to make christs sufferings proper punishments ? nay , what is it for christ in our stead to answer for our violations ? but go yet lower : is not to answer for our sins , another thing than socinians hold ? even this is no less than suffering the punishment of our sins , if we were for violating the law under its obligations , to suffer those punishments : but i come to mr. lob's charge against mr. r. from the words , cannot bear a sound sense . . because mr. r. used certain warm words once , and that only against the unsound sense of that single phrase , commutation of persons ( which yet he there saith , may be capable of receiving a sound meaning ) mr. lob makes mr. r. to intend those warm words against the sound sense of that phrase , against that phrase it self , and a great many other good phrases which himself makes use of as very safe , yea , against the sound sense of many other phrases which mr. r. pleads for . i shall fully recite the only place upon which mr. lob grounds his charge , reb. p. . [ a change of persons , which may possibly be capable of receiving a good meaning ( elsewhere explained ) and yet is more sounding towards a dangerous sense , the brethren did unanimously agree to grant as much as the sound sense could bear , and modestly to wave and pass by the other , which was liable to be interpreted to a sense , and sound of malignity to the whole of the gospel . ] you see the other which could not bear a sound sense , but was liable to a sound of malignity , is but one thing , for other is not nomen multitudinis , and agrees with the verb was , which is in the singular number . this other , to which these words are appropriated , cannot be the phrase , commutation of persons , for that is not waved , but retained by us in the third paper ; nor can it be the sound sense of that phrase , for that 's provided for by mr. r. much less can it be all the phrases and passages in the first paper omitted in the third . it must then be confined to some one thing expressive of the unsound sense , which the crispians put upon the phase change of persons ; mr. r's . following words point at , [ and the brethren are now more fully perswaded they are in the right by the reporters notions . ] what 's that ? such a change as makes christ to be destitute of a righteousness entitling to enternal life , and to become sin as we are sin : rep. p. . , i. e. filthy sinners . yet upon this foresaid passage of mr. r. mr. lob says , p. . [ this passage of my reverend brothren doth make it manifest , that the paragraphs , terms and phrases , which were in the first paper , and were waved and passed by in the composure of the third , are looked upon by my brother , as what could not bear a sound sense , but a sound of malignity to the whole of the gospel ; that is to say , the phrase of christs taking on him the person of sinners , of answering for us the obligations of the violated law of works , the term surety , and the assertion of the necessity of a commutation of persons — this is the sense of my reverend brother . ] and so these words cannot bear a sound , &c. are trumped up i believe forty times with these by tail , p. . to . nay , in this last , p. . [ according to what my brother declares , it must be supposed ; this passage , ( viz. regeneration , repentance towards god , faith in our lord jesus christ , and a holy conversation , are by gods word manifestly necessary to the salvation of a sinner ) cannot bear a sound sense , but is liable to be interpreted to a sense and sound of malignity . ] must not mr. r. tho thus loudly warned , find it impossible to guard himself against this man ? . mr. r. p. . saith , [ these phrases , terms , or expressions , viz. change of persons between christ and us , and his taking on him the person of sinners , are unknown to our confessions and not to be found in the body of confessions . ] mr. lob exposeth him by citing a confession that useth some phrases , mr. r. makes use of , and others which he never denied , but mentions no confession that hath the phrases mr. r. said , could not be found . upon this poor work he toiles from , p. . to . i must stay a little on what occurs , p. . and ask , . when mr. r. denied only that these phrases ( not the sound sense ) were in the confessions ? why should mr. lob make him deny that the confessions gave any countenance to the sound sense of those phrases ? . when mr. lob declares he had silent , if he had not found these phrases in some confessions , and ridicules mr. r. for denying they were in them ; why did not he shew these phrases , or one of them in some or other confession ? . if these phrases , as to the letters and syllables ( which mr. r. called for ) are wherever the sound sense of them is to be found , ( which is , what mr. lob pretends , or fondly argues ) why doth he deny that the very phrases christ taking on him the person of sinners , &c. are in the third paper , and say they are rejected by us , seeing the sound sense of those very phrases is there ? . mr. lob saith , [ the phrases of change of persons , of christs sustaining our person , of his being substituted into our room , and his suffering in our place and stead , are so nearly allied that they live and dye together , grant one and all necessarily come in with it , &c ] they must then be of the same adequate sense with each other , or the confession could not assert christs sustaining in our person , by its saying , christ dyed in our stead : but if the sense be adequate , then mr. r. denies the right sense of none of these phrases , for he asserts , christ dyed properly in our place and stead , and that he was substituted in our room . whence it will be no better by mr. lobs own confession , than that he makes all this noise to shew his copia verborum : he will have the mentioning of each of the various words of the same signification , to be terms of communion , and the omission of any one as great a bar to it , as if the very sense of all those words were denied ; ay , and that when the full just sense of any of those words is granted . for my part , after all his big words , from p. . to . about logical terms , or meer humane forms of speech , ( tho i believe , they who drew up the third paper never dreamt of such designs , as he wtih somewhat too like , malice fastens on them ) i would think him a turbulent , uncharitable scismatick , who would divide from others meerly because they scrupled this or that humane form of words , so they held and plainly expressed the scriptural truth designed by those words , yea , tho they expressed it by terms less proper . how much more culpable is it then , to raise such storms only for our omitting a phrase , because less intelligible to the people , more capable of being abused by the etimology and acceptation thereof among the vulgar , and known to be grossly abused by the crispians from that occasion . may not mr. lob commence as just a war , of people should omit his fine phrase , zeal for populacy , and yet be willing to use their plain phrase , zeal for popularity . but to conclude this head : i deny that his change of persons , or christs suffering in our person , or in the crispian sense , or his own , as stated , rep. p. . are included in or to be proved from the confession : to pretend the litereal phrases from such words as christ dyed in our stead , was substituted in our room , is sordid , and the confessors meaning in those words , is contrary to the crispian and reporters sense ; and therefore mr : lobs phrases are not at all proved from the confessions ; unless a thing be proved where the phrase is unmentioned and the sense opposed . . mr. lob , that he might bring his english reader to judge mr. r. a baffled man , leaves out a considerable word in his translating a part of the scotch confession , p. . [ it became the redeemer to be true god , and true man , because he was to suffer the punishments due for our sins , and to appear [ quasi in persona , nostra coram judicio patris , pro nostra transgressione & in obedientia pati , in our person before the judgment-seat of the father , to suffer for our transgressions and disobedience . ] thus mr. lob englisheth the latin words , and boasteth — here you see the church of sco●land useth this very phrase , &c. but least his admirers should applaud his conquest to an indecency , it 's fit they know there 's a word qvasi , which mr. lob did not think for his purpose to english. he ought to have said thus ; and to appear [ as it were ] in our person , that is , christ appeared nor properly in our person ; that phrase is too hard , tho there be somewhat towards it in some certain respect ; as calvin in this case useth quodamodo . but mr. lob , by leaving out quasi , performs what he undertook , p. . perhaps it may appear ( i. e. to the englishman ) that the phrase most exposed by him will be found literally in one or other confession . these words cited are all , by which he makes it to appear , and quasi answers to perhaps . nay , had the diminutive quasi been out , he is not sure it had served his turn . but considering the wonted freedom of the man , i wonder he left not out this quasi . for i could give many instances , where the very next words omitted by him , would have defeated his purpose by what he citeth . but , to prevent a snare , i 'll prefer that in his letter to dr. bates , p. . he saith , many held christ and us to be one person in law ; ( and ) that it may be said , that we suffered in christ , is the import of that assertion which saith , that christ suffered as our surety ; and is allowed by mr. baxter ; ( just against this , mr. lob cites in the margin ) it is not so aptly said he satisfied , as that he suffered in the person of sinners , mr. baxter , cath. theol. part . p. . ( it should be , p. , . ) amazed , i took mr. baxters book , and found the very next words were ; note , that it is not any other mans person that christ suffered in , but his own , and we mean , that he took upon him the person of a sinner himself , in as much as he consented to suffer for sin , and so personating here , is not becoming any other mans person in law-sense , so as that other legally suffered what he did ; but it is only his own person 's becoming a sufferer in the stead of sinners for their sins — ( and two or three lines before mr. baxter tells us ) to say that christ satisfied in our person , and we by him ; is false , and subverts the gospel . or why did not mr. lob split the word quasi , and leave out the last sillable si , then qua being oft redulplicative , had better fitted , thus he served me , man made righteous , p. . i had said , therefore christ herein is what the civilians call , an ex promissor , he suffered alone , tho he acts for another . mr. lob in his letter to dr. bates , p. . . to expose me as unlearned , and himself skilful , recites several properties of an expromissor , and will have me to mean that all these did belong to christ , and then infers what pleased himself ; whereas i had by the entire word herein , limited it to one property of an ex promissor , viz. he is obliged alone tho he acts for another , ( in redemption-work . ) mr. lob seeing the word herein would mar his project , he fairly splits the word , leaves out in , and makes it ( a local ) here and so found scope for his purpose . these few instances of many , may convince how unsit mr. lob is to report other mens words , tho his talent seems confined to the collecting and publishing what authors write ; 't were well for his readers , he did it with more of true judgment , and less of trick ; for thereby his quotations would more edify , and require less care and pains to become sure the authors are not mis-represented . . men will scarce judge it decent or prudent in mr. lob , ( if in his friend ) to publish by that letter to himself , a reflection on the rebuker for his loyalty to the present government , as inconsistent with a few rhetorical expressions , in address to the late king iames , ( to whom his obligations were somewhat peculiar : ) but whereby doth his meaning appear so insincere at that time ? or what is done by him since , so contradictious to what he said , as to render him an exemplar of insincerity now ? no other than swearing allegiance to king william , signing the association and carrying it , becoming a loyal subject in his prayers , sermons , and peaceable behaviour and advices ? what fetters are some in , if once addressing the late king by a few big words , must eternally proclaim a man an hypocrite , unless he be now a non-juror , nonassociator , plotter , and director of other ministers ( in imitation of himself ) to pray so for the king , as either of the two kings may be intended , if they must at all seem to pray for king william ▪ i hope , few will be gull'd into such a character , from the fancied obligations of former addresses ( tho some of them were highly inconsiderate ) , nor any discouraged from persevering loyalty by the forecited aspersion . this would admit enlargement , which provocations might improve . but i retain a respect sufficient to forbid it , nor had i inserted the least hint at such things , except as a warning against the like instances , when his first-rate man is to execute his fiery threats , and his very learned person already roused ( alike obnoxious ) stretcheth forth his claws . let men take their way , but the common interest will not long be sacrificed , ere some ( now imposed on ) will find out the instruments and designs of our breaches . i hope , the reverend rebuker will pardon my interposal , and that i acquainted him not therewith . his abilities for a reply , i acknowledge such , that if these short hints serve for a foile to that he is preparing , and in the interim abate the ill impressions of mr. lobs attempt , i shall account these few hours well employed , which otherwise had been more feelingly spent in resenting those base reflections , that i am his leader , master , principal , and what else became , scarce any man besides mr. lob , their author . mr. lob , p. . owneth , i asserted , besides the effects made ours , the righteousness of christ is imputed to believers , but adds , i mean nothing by this grant : because i use a simile to illustrate the manner , in man made righteous , p. . if one give me my liberty , which he voluntarily purchased for me at a dear rate . he mediately gives me what he paid for my ransom , tho immediately he gives me my liberty and a right thereto . a. had he cited the apodosis , which is in the next words , he had spoiled his suggestion , i shall contract what i there enlarge on . i make pardon and adoption to be benefits , or effects following upon the imputation of christs righteousness . and the righteousness of christ i distinguish into , . his performance of the conditions of redemption . . his right ( or jus adjudicatum ) by the covenant of redemption , to our pardon and adoption ; for his performance of the conditions adjusted in that covenant . the former i said , is mediately imputed . the latter i said , is immediately imputed ; it 's reckoned to us when believers , because it was acquired expressly for believers , iohn . . isa. . , . the judicial imputation of this right of christ intervening ; the righteousness of christ ( as a performance of the conditions ) is imputed as our plea for that pardon , it being the procuring cause of that right of christs , which is immediately imputed to us . and this right i also distinguish from that which the gospel-promise made to believers doth invest them in , for the former right results immediately to christ , from the covenant of redemption , and is subjectively in him , tho imputed to us : whereas the promise , he that believes shall be forgiven , or saved , not only supposeth the former transactions , and is the instrument by which god imputeth christs righteousness to the believer ; but it also , as a conditional promise , giveth believers a right to forgiveness , whereof they are the immediate subjects . here mr. lob may see the vanity of his objection ; it is not pardon , or such possessed effects that intermediate between christs righteousness and us , nor only the right given by the gospels conditional grant . no , it 's christs own right , and that imputed to us by god himself , and that immediately to us . and pray , is gods imputing to us christs performance of the conditions , so far as to be our plea and foundation of claim , no imputation of his righteousness at all , because the imputation of christs acquired right intervenes ? nothing is left out but gods legal accounting us to have performed all that , by which christ merited and made atonement . yet without this proud assumption , nothing will please mr. lob. being so often pressed to it by mr. humfreys and mr. lob , i will endeavour their satisfaction . if christ had acquired by his death a power indefinitely to forgive sins , without a compact determining ( either by name or qualification ) the persons that should be pardoned in the virtue of his death , or only purchased the gospel covenant , as conditionally offering pardon ; i should agree with mr. h. but it being otherwise , i differ from him . and add , as the possessed effects are not properly imputed , so i will not confine the support of my faith ultimately , and only to the gospel conditional promise ( tho that 's infallible ) when god hath made the compact between the father and our mediator , to be my security , and christs performance of the conditions of that compact to be my plea with god , among which conditions was what answers the law of works , which i have transgressed . altho i own i must try my interest by christs gospel law , as what describeth the person who is entitled to pardon , and injoyneth us to be such , with a promise of that interest . in short , a believer having for his security and plea , the gospel promise , the covenant of redemption and the value of christs death , i 'll retain each ; and therefore still say , besides the effects possessed by me , the righteousness of christ is imputed to me , as above accounted for . on the other hand , could i think it was by the covenant of works , that christ was constituted our surety , so that his obligations to suffer the punishment of our sins , did immediately result from that law ; and that we sinners were principals in redemption work , and christ such a surety as to be ioint party with us in that work of redemption . and that the law of works required the divine nature , to give a value to what it accounted to be righteousness . and lastly , that this law promiseth pardon to sinners for the sake of a mediators sufferings ; i should then agree with mr. lob , that we satisfied for our sin , dyed , and obeyed in christs person , and he and we paid the idem . nay , be a full crispian and say , i was justified at the time of christs death ; i had nothing to do to become partaker of the effects of that death , i was as righteous as christ , deny any proper forgiveness , nay , own that christ was really a sinner ; for i am sure the law could immediately oblige no other to dye . but i must disagree with mr. lob and them , because i am well perswaded , god never proposed the work of redemption to condemned sinners , but to christ our mediator . also that to the redemption of sinners , god in justice requiring for the honour of his violated law , that a perfect obedience , and the suffering of what was equivalent to its threatned punishments , should in the humane nature be summitted to by the redeemer . our blessed mediator obliged himself to yield that obedience , and bear those punishments , upon condition that such sinners should be forgiven in his right , who should comply with the gospel terms agreed upon between the father and him . and pursuant hereto , our mediator did in our nature perfectly obey and suffer the punishments of our sins , whereby he had a right to a believers pardon , and believers do obtain it in the way above described . and lastly , i am sure the law of works never promiseth pardon to sinners for the sake of christs sufferings , the payment of the full idem was impossible , ( tho there was a supra-equivalent ) and the law accounteth that righteousness perfect , which an innocent holy creature renders , tho he have not , the divine nature to give that value to his obedience ; without which ( very thing ) we had been entirely lost . here mr. lob may find a surety , viz. an obliged mediator . and under the law , viz. as an article taken into the covenant of redemption , whereby christ was obliged : and in our stead , viz. we were condemned to suffer , we are by and for his sufferings to be saved . nay , he may find the ●ound meaning of his other phrases , as change of persons , yea , christs suffering in the person of sinners . that is , christ our obliged mediator suffers in our stead what we were to suffer ; yet it was that we might be delivered for it , but not legally reputed our selves to suffer . and yet here 's place le●t for pardon , a gospel law , terms of application . &c. that none may mistake , note , . i instance pardon , &c. for brevity sake , but exclude no saving benefits , and distinguish saving benefits , which are used as motives to duty in the gospel , from the duties which are conditions of those benefits . . and therefore i speak not of christ's peculiar purchasing grace for the elect effectually to perform those conditions whereby , together with the decree , their eventual salvation is secured . this is my judgment ; but i ought not to confound this with that adjustment of things , whereby the gospel-offer of salvation to all men , and the gospel-rule of conferring its benefits , and of our final judgment , are provided for . mr. lob oft objects a contradiction , if i affirm a change of persons , and yet say , i deny there is a change of person . answ. besides answers already given , i say , without any design'd affront , it 's no greater than answer not a fool according to his folly , yet answer a fool according to his folly. by thus gratifying mr. lob's imperious humour , i am the freer to tell him , . i am sorry that he so boldly averreth many gross mistakes in mattter of fact , p. . i invented the phrase change of person ; whereas i cite and use it as dr. crisp's phrase . p. . . i deny a change of persons . whereas i never denied it ; what i denied was dr. crisp's change of person , and fully asserted the sense of the other . p. . i appealed to the learned witsius . but this i never did . p. . that onely mr. toland wrote much in praise of my book . whereas he being then in holland ( and not the man he since appears ) desired them who gave an account of published books , to give their judgment of my book , and the great praises are theirs ; and others have since commended it above its worth . p. . that i was the contriver of the third paper . whereas others had drawn it up before i saw it . his vile reflections on mr. r. with respect to this , and his nine subscribers of the first paper , p. . makes an account of that matter necessary . the united ministers appointed dr. bates , mr. hamond , mr. slater , mr. hill , with mr. how and my self , to compose an expedient , &c. two of the brethren drew it up ( which is this third paper ) and brought it to the rest of us met together : after some alterations we did all agree to it , and brought it as our agreed act to the meeting at saint hellen. there , among the rest , mr. stretton , mr. quick and mr. evans agreed to it . mr. alsop , mr. burgess , and mr. showers not being present any of the times when it was read in the meeting ; it was brought to the view of mr. alsop , who approved of it . i am very sure also it was shewn to mr. burgess ( his informer ) who appeared to agree to it ; and mr. showers did to more than one express his approbation of it . so that mr. lob hath all the nine subscribers to my book enumerated . mr. lob somewhere saith , all the phrases of the first paper , not into the third , were rejected by my means ; and yet several of them are in my own paper , called the sccond . which i am glad was printed ere i read his defence . he saith the third paper denies a commutation of persons , p. . when both phrase and sense are in it . other instances are not wanting . it 's false that the generality of the pastors do not approve my book , though they were asked only to subscribe the state of truth and errors . . the cause he undertakes is miserably defended against the rebuke : he appears to give , p. . a scheme of his project , viz. the points left out of the third paper which offended the brethren , but where 's his proof that the united ministers were obliged to retain so many phrases of the first paper as they did ? if they had used none but what the church of england and the assembly of divines confessions included , the heads of vnion were observed by them , and violated by such as exacted more . where makes he it good , that the united ministers rejected all the phrases of the first paper which they omitted ; especially when it was never read nor proposed to them : or that the omission of those phrases warrants the breach of vnion ? such matters ought not to pass unargued , without which none can tell what honest cause the report pretends to , unless the traducing men sound in the faith to cover the turbulency of the erroneous , should be so accounted . as these are waved , so he trifles in what he pretendeth to insist on . mr. r. demands the difference between a commutation of persons between christ and sinners , and christs dying properly in the sinners stead . mr. lob grants they are the same , and yet poureth out a flood of impertinent words against the r. as if they widely differed . mr. lob makes christs suffering the punishment of our sins to the satisfaction of justice , the thing which distinguisheth the orthodox from the socinians , and yet he represents mr. r. as a socinian , who oft asserteth , christ suffered the punishment of our sins to the satisfaction of justice , even vindicative justice , mr. r. chargeth his account of change of persons , rep. p. . with little less than blasphemy , he bears that with profoundest silence . mr. r. blames him , that he gave not a full report of our difference , and from its rise . to this he saith , he pretended not to give a narrative of the whole . and yet , rep. p. . the difference hitherto hath been about the satisfaction of christ. and in his remarks , oft leads his reader to judge we never had any other controversy . indeed his present state of difference was such a piece of art , as he thought it so much pity to spoil it by a fuller account , that their violation of the agreement in doctrines , . he answers only with a groan . their refusal of the paper , . because a disowning of sundry antinomian errors was added , he excuseth no better than by an abrupt dismiss , after a suggestion , that nothing had been added but that about repentance , which is not true ; and yet this being in the assemblies words , he impeacheth the refusers as insincere in subscribing this in the assemblies confessio● , and yet refusing it in that paper . to the horrid passages out of his brethren's books , collected to justifie a demand of satisfaction , and a fit antidote when he formed their creeds : with him 't is enough they were not sent to p. h. as if it matter'd not that he knew they were in their books , and before the united ministers . what saith he to mr. r.'s citations out of my book , fully asserting christ's satisfaction ? ne 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 quidem , but caluminates still ; where states he a fair question with the r ? instead of that he pursues a logomachy , cites authors to prove what mr. r. pleads for , and to confute what his party reckons he defends ; yea , what himself oft-times asserts . phrases he tires , when the sense is so disregarded , that i would thank him to shew one error of mr. r. ( unless by gross wresting of his words ) he once remarketh ; or one doctrinal truth he pretends to prove , which mr. r. hath not expresly own'd . upon the whole , the cause of the rebuke is still unhurt , otherwise than as its author is pelted with his smoothest brothers rotten eggs ; such as not having a grain of sense , heretical , false , delirous , changeling , and what not ? but as for the cause of the report , the defendant hath wisely got that into a wood , in hopes his party shall not find it 's dead by the rebukers wounds . . i 'll foretell from what i already hear and see , how several sorts are likely to judge , and stand affected to his performance . his disciples may say , all we have learned is even this . a change of persons and christs suffering in our person , if explained to a sound sense , are no more than christ's suffering properly in our stead : and yet christ's suffering properly in our stead , is not so much a change of persons , or suffering in our person , but that we mnst call them socinians , who hold christ suffered in our stead , if they will omit any of our masters other phrases , altho they own the sense of all . the sagacious crispians ( if any such ) will say he hath betrayed our cause ; yea , himself condemns it , and anon espouseth it . but one good turn is done , he hath toiled hard to spoil what is a real confutation of it . the factious biggots may glory , whatever becomes of truth , yet it 's worth our contribution , that he has spoiled all hopes of that ill thing , union and peace too , and put the vnited ministers to groan we are abused , and as far as this pacificator can influence , our breaches shall still be wider . they whom he remarked , saying , the dissenters differ about they know not what , will loudly boast , we now see with a witness , even the onely man of close study , that no man can guess what it is about . they who used to trust to quotations from authors , must grow suspicious , and resolve always to examine . hard students ( some such there are besides mr. l. ) will dread a common place book of phrases , least they should divert them from their more important sense , and confound themselves to the distracting of the church , and torment of all mankind . it 's well if some of his reproached preachers say not , we study things more than words , and yet words more than to speak false english , that we may strut in bombastick phrases ; and both to better purpose than our assuming dictator , who brands us with ignorance , and a zeal for populacy , whilst his gain by our more common acceptance , qualifies him for a sort of closer study ; but in time we may become more politique . but which more affects me , plain serious christians with grief will cry , we know not what to think , if the way to heaven be thus perplexed , and the articles of our faith so intricate as these heaps of obscure phrases represent them . the profane are tempted to scoff at religion as a wordy noise , and our enemies well pleased to see us destroy each other by dividing , and this for what exposeth us as much to contempt as ruine . how much should we pray for godly sincerity in our appeals to god , and serviceableness to a common good in our pretended pleadings for truth ! and not still amuse men , as mr. lob hath done , by ● book , the substance whereof is no more than a misrepresentation of the r's words , that the reader may believe him an heretick in grain , when the plain sense of his expression seems oft contended for by mr. lob. nor can people propose a benefit by multiplied quotations of a phrase , when the authors , who use it , design by that phrase no more than mr. r. grants . and his exception is nor ●gainst their sense of that phrase , but against impo●●●● it is a term of union , after the crispians and mr. lob so perverted it . finis . scripture and tradition compared in a sermon preached at guild-hall chapel, novemb. , / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) scripture and tradition compared in a sermon preached at guild-hall chapel, novemb. , / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed for henry mortlock ..., london : . marginal notes. errata: p. . reproduction of original in duke university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t. -- colossians ii, -- sermons. authority -- religious aspects -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion scripture and tradition compared ; in a sermon preached at guild-hall chapel , novemb. . . by edward stillingfleet , d. d. and dean of st. paul's . london , printed for henry mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . . imprimatur , guil. needham rmo in christo ac d. d. wilhelmo archiep. cant. a sacris domest . nov. . . the preface . i intend , god willing , to publish in a little time , a full answer to j.s. his catholick letters , so far as i am concerned in them . in the mean while , i thought it not unfit to print this sermon i lately preached , that i might give a general view of scripture and tradition , as to the way of conveying matters of faith , before i come to the particular debate with j.s. wherein i do not doubt , but i shall be able to shew that we have ry good grounds for the certainty of our faith , and that they have none either as to faith or tradition , as to the main points in controversie between us . nestly as he doth to them ? must we think , as some do , that he uses these expressions as gentle methods of insinuation , and commends them for that , which he would perswade them to ? but this doth not seem agreeable to the apostles simplicity and godly sincerity , which he elsewhere sets such a value upon . but it is far more probable that hitherto they had been very orderly and stedfast : but epaphras going to st. paul had informed him throughly of their condition , viz. that they were like a garrison closely besieged on all sides ; and although hitherto they had held out with great courage , yet he did not know what earnest sollicitations , and fair promises , and tempting motives might do with them , and therefore the apostle writes this epistle to encourage them in their stedfastness , and to warn them against temptations . which he doth in such a manner , as shews , . that he had a more than ordinary apprehension of the danger they were in . and this i say , saith he , lest any man should beguile you with enticing words , v. . and beware lest any man spoil you with philosophy and vain deceit , after the traditions of men , after the rudiments of the world , and not after christ , v. . let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels , &c. v. . all which expressions do imply , that he had just reason to fear and to give them caution in time , that while they did yet think that they stood , they should take heed lest they fall . and this is that which the apostle aims at in the words of the text ; as ye have therefore received christ iesus the lord , so walk ye in him . receiving christ iesus the lord , doth not here relate to his person , but to his authority , and to his doctrine ; so the apostle himself explains it in the next verse , rooted and built up in him , and established in the faith , as ye have been taught . walking in him is an eastern way of speaking and supposes both an adhering to that faith they had then received , and living according to it , looking on christ and his doctrine , as their only way to heaven . and as ye had received him , so walk ye in him , implies that the manner of their receiving christ and his doctrine at first was different from that which the false apostles endeavoured to bring in among them , and that they were bound to keep close to that pure and primitive doctrine which they at first received . from hence we may consider a double obligation lying upon them . . to keep stedfast to that faith which they first received , without being seduced from it by the arts of deceivers , who were then busie among them . . to live according to it , ; by making that faith the principle of a christian life ; and so walking in him , as they have received him . . as to the former , the reasonableness of it cannot but appear from the supposition here made , viz. that they had received christ iesus the lord. for , thereby they declared , that they received him as the christ , i. e. as him who was anointed of the father to teach and instruct his church ; and therefore they were bound to adhere to his doctrine ; there being no other , whom the father hath sealed and appointed to declare his will ; and in him were hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge . they received him as christ iesus , that is , they hoped for redemption through his blood , even the forgiveness of sins . and if their hopes of heaven depended upon his mediation , they had the greatest reason to adhere only to him . they received him as christ iesus the lord , and therefore they ought to submit to his authority , to obey his commands , and to observe his institutions , and in all circumstances of life to keep stedfast to the doctrine which he delivered . but here arises the great difficulty , how they should know by any certain rule , what was the true and genuine doctrine of christ , which himself delivered ? for , . the false teachers among them pretended to deliver the true doctrine of christ as well as the apostles . . that which they at first received was no certain rule . for the false teachers might have been before them . and first possession gives no title in religion . . the apostle doth not put the whole tryal meerly upon their judgments or memories , or capacities ; viz. what they thought , or remembred was at first taught them for the doctrine of christ. for , it was very possible for them to have mistaken , or to have mis-remembred , what was at first delivered . nothing can be more weak than to imagine that the judgments of people in matters of faith , must be formed according to the skill and excellency of their teachers . for the hearers of christ himself ; although he spake as never man spake , yet did very often mistake his meaning . aud at one time so remarkably , that although he took care to rectify their misapprehension , yet it is said , from that time many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him . so that the highest infallibility in the teachers , doth not prevent the possibility , or the danger of mistaking in the hearers . and whatsoever any vainly pretend , nothing can do it , but transfusing the spirit of infallibility into all . if we look over the apostolical churches while they were under the care and conduct of an infallible spirit ; yet this did not prevent their running into great errours and mistakes , as appears by the account we have of them , given by that spirit which cannot deceive in the apostolical writings . in the church of rome it self , even at that time , when its faith was spoken of throughout the world , yet there were dissensions and differences there , and such as were contrary to the doctrine which was delivered . and st. paul bids them to mark such which caused them ; he doth not say , it was impossible for them to introduce any thing contrary to the doctrine which they had learned by tradition from the apostles ; but he not only supposes it very possible , but he bids them have a particular eye to them , lest they should be deceived by them . the church of corinth was planted by paul , and watered by apollos ; and there were disciples of cephas and of christ himself . and yet in the midst of so many infallible teachers , they had like to have lost all their faith ; as one of them tells them . how say some among you there is no resurrection of the dead ? and if christ be not risen , then is our preaching vain , and your faith is also vain . could not they remember to day what was taught them yesterday , and so what the apostles at first preached to them ? the churches of galatia had such an opinion of st. paul , upon his first preaching the gospel among them , that they received him as an angel of god , even as christ iesus ; yet presently after he saith , am i therefore become your enemy beause i tell you the truth ? what! of an angel of god , or of one received as christ iesus , to become their enemy , and that upon the most unjustifiable account , because he told them the truth ! but , where truth can make enemies , errours may easily gain friends . and so we find it was in the apostolical churches , even under the conduct and teaching of the apostles . the colossians were not yet so far gone ; but they were in such danger , that the apostle writes this epistle with great concernment for them . he tells them v. . he had a sharp conflict in his own mind about them . they had not yet seen his face in the flesh , being converted by some sent by him , of whom epaphras is most taken notice of ; but he was present with them in spirit , v. . i. e. he was deeply affected with their condition ; for he understood the designs and artifices of the seducers among them . he knew what fair and plausible pretences they had ; viz. that they went about not to undermine christianity , but to advance it , by taking in some jewish customs , and some gentile observances , and modes of worship which might easily be accommodated to the christian doctrine ; and so a great deal of the ammosities both of the iews and heathens would be removed ; and christianity would thereby gain more friends , and meet with fewer enemies . the apostle finding how necessary it was at this time , if possible , to keep them stedfast in the faith , . he assures them , that the christian doctrine was of it self so sufficient for the good of mankind , that it needed no additions , either from the law of moses , or the philosophy of the gentiles , which might introduce several things , with a specious appearance of wisdom , humility and mortification ; but they ought to be assured , that from christ they had all that was necessary or useful for salvation ; for in him are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge . . that this doctrine was at first truly delivered to them , and they ought to be stedfast in it ; which is the design of the text. but they might object , that epaphras was no apostle of christ himself ; and if he were , yet there were many apostles , and the false apostles pretended to be true ones ; and although st. paul interposed his authority ; yet he was but one , and the iudaizers would not yield to it , but were ready to suggest , that the other apostles were more favourable to the jewish customs than he ; and therefore it was necessary some more general and common rule be found out , whereby to distinguish the original and genuine doctrine of christ from that of pretenders and seducers . the clearing of this is in it self a matter of great consequence ; and not only was to those of that age , but is so in every age of the christian church , where the same question may be put : what was the true primitive doctrine of christ ; and by what means may we come to it ? which concerns us this day as well as them . and the answer lay in two particulars , which i shall endeavour to clear . . 〈…〉 the apostles did in common deliver to 〈…〉 by them , was the genuine doctrine 〈…〉 . . that which they have left in their writings , after it came to be contested which was the true doctrine of christ. . that which the apostles did in common deliver to the churches planted by them . for , we have all the reason in the world to believe , that the apostles delivered one and the same faith to all the churches ; having the same infallible spirit to direct them . there was no need for them to meet together before their dispersion , and to agree upon some common articles of faith , as russinus imagins , lest they should differ from each other ; for how could they differ , who had the same spirit of truth to lead them into all truth ? and we find nothing like a combination among the apostles , as to matters of doctrine : and if there had been , it would have rendred the faith they delivered more suspitious , in that they durst not trust particular persons with delivery of it , without an antecedent confederacy among themselves , which would have cerning him ; and the disciples when they first heard him were amazed ; after this , he took a course by himself , and did not go up to ierusalem to the college of apostles there resident , but went into arabia ; so that , if any one might be thought to set up another doctrine , it was he ; but he was so far from it , that he established and confirmed the truth of what they delivered , and was very successful in his apostleship in all places . and when there had been some whispers concerning him , as though he proceeded not in the same way with the rest , he went up to ierusalem , and there upon full examination , james and cephas , and john , who were the leading apostles , gave him the right hand of fellowship ; in token of their full consent in the same faith. . the truth of the gospel was the more plainly discovered . all this while , the apostles only preached and delivered their doctrine to the several churches by verbal instructions ; but after these had been received in the hearts of such multitudes , that there could be no suspition that a false representation of christs doctrine or actions could be received by those churches , then the wise providence of god took care for posterity , and imploy'd several persons in distant places and times to write the history of our saviour . and there was this advantage to the church that the gospels were written no sooner . for all the churches planted by the apostles , were then made judges whether the gospels written were agreeable to the doctrine which the apostles had taught ; and if not , there would have been just reason to have question'd either the truth of what had been taught them , or what was delivered in the gospels . but when they found the main to be fully consonant to what they had been taught , the testimony of every one of these churches did shew the concurrence of all the apostles , as to the doctrine contained in the several gospels . and that which adds to the strength of this proof is , that when the true gospels were written , there were several false and counterfeit gospels dispersed abroad , under the names of the apostles themselves . as of st. peter st. thomas , st. matthias , and others ; as eusebius informs us ; and as we have the genuine acts of the apostles , so there were the pretended acts of paul , of andrew and john , and the other apostles . how came these to be rejected , and the other to be carefully received ? here lies the true advantage of original tradition before the written gospels , that by it the several churches were enabled to pass a true judgment concerning them when they came to be dispersed among them . for they could presently tell , whether what they read were agreeable to what they had heard and received from the apostles . as suppose the gospel of st. matthew being published in iudea , were carried into mesopotamia or persia , where many christian churches were very early planted ; these being throughly instructed by the apostles in all things relating to the life , death , resurrection and doctrine of christ , could presently judge whether st. matthews gospel agreed with what they had heard or not , and the like holds as to all the churches in the roman empire . so that the consent of the churches so soon , while the memory of the apostles doctrine was so fresh in their minds , is in effect the consent of all the apostles who taught them . and this is very different from the case of particular persons in some churches , who might mistake or forget what was taught ; for this is a concurrent testimony of all the apostolical churches , who could not agree to approve an error in the gospels contrary to the faith delivered to them . and that while some of the apostles were still living . for the other gospels were received and approved , before st. iohn wrote his . the case had been far otherwise , if no gospels had been written in that age ; for then it might have been suspected , that either the impressions of the first teachers were worn out , or they had been by degrees alter'd from their first apprehensions by the cunning craftiness of those who lay in wait to deceive them . after the decease of the apostles , the common tradition of the apostolical churches was useful in these cases ; . to convey down the authentick writings of the apostles or evangelists , which were delivered to any of them . . to bear testimony against any pretended writings , which were not first received by the apostolical churches to which they were said to be written . for there can be no negative testimony of more force than that ; it being improbable to the utmost degree that such a church should not know , or not make known any true apostolical writings . . to overthrow any pretence to a secret tradition from the apostles different from what was seen in the apostolical writings . and to this purpose irenaeus and tertullian make very good use of the tradition of the apostolical churches against the pretenders to such a tradition , which those churches were not acquainted with . but they agree that the apostles committed the same doctrine to writing which they preached , and that it might be a foundation and pillar of faith ; that this doctrine was contained in the four gospels ; and that the apostolical churches did receive them from those who first wrote them , and that within the compass of the apostolical age. it was therefore most agreeable to the infinite wisdom of god in providing for a constant establishment of the faith of his church in all ages , neither to permit the gospels to be written till the churches were planted , nor to be put off to another generation . for , then it would have been plausibly objected ; if these things are true , why were they not recorded , when there were persons living who were best able to have either proved , or confuted them ? then we might have been satisfyed one way or other ; but now the iews are dead , and the apostles are dead ; and although there are many left who believe their doctrine , yet this can never reach to the testimony of those who saw and heard the things themselves , or whose doctrine was attested by those who did so . and this is now the mighty advantage of the church ever since that the things concerning christ were written by such persons . with what another kind of authority do those words command our assent , that which was from the beginning , which we have heard , which we have seen with our eyes , which we have looked upon , and our hands have handled of the word of life ; for the life was manifested , and we have seen it , and bear witness , and shew unto you that eternal life , which was with the father , and was manifest unto us , that which we have seen and heard declare we unto you ; then if all the testimony concerning christ were to be resolved into those who heard some say , that others told them , they had it from such , who saw those who conversed with them who saw christ in the flesh ? at such a distance the authority of a testimony is extremely lessen'd ; which is not like a river which grows greater by running ; but like a mineral water which loses its strength by being carried too far . we find in the time of papias who lived but in the second century , the authority of bare tradition was mightily sunk ; for , eusebius saith , he conversed with the disciples of our lord and his apostles , he saith of himself , that he went up and down to them to get what he could from them , having a greater esteem of what he could learn from them than of what was written . and what advantage did this bring to the church ? it brought some idle opinions into reputation , saith eusebius ; for afterwards they thought it enough to fix them upon papias . but how was it possible for him to mistake ? eusebius saith , that being a man of mean capacity , he might easily misunderstand the meaning of what was spoken . but if tradition might fail after such a manner so near the apostles times ; then we must be assured of the capacity as well as integrity of those of every age through whom a tradition passed , or else they might deceive , or be deceived about it . but god was pleased to provide better for the security of our faith , by causing the gospels to be written either by the apostles themselves , as st. matthew and st. iohn , or by the disciples of the chief apostles , while the others were surviving , as st. mark and st. luke ; and the latter gives this account of his undertaking to write it , viz. that thou mighest know the certainty of those things wherein thou hast been instructed . his instruction was by an oral tradition ; but that it seems wanted something to strengthen and confirm it ; and that was by st. lukes writing his gospel . how could they add any assurance to him , if all the ground of his certainty were to be taken from tradition ? st. luke thought it necessary then , that those things which concerned the life and doctrine of christ should be put into writing , that they might be more certainly convey'd ; and that while they had the testimony of those , who were eye-witnesses and ministers of the word . . and so i come to the second rule of discerning the primitive doctrine of christ ; viz. the writings of the apostles , when matters of doctrine came to be contested , were the infallible rule , whereby they were to judge , which was the true and genuine doctrine of christ. there are some who pretend , that the apostles writings were meerly accidental and occasional things , but that the main design was to lodge the great assurance of the doctrine of christ in tradition from one to another ; and what they wrote was not to make any rule of faith , but only to give some good advice to those churches they wrote to . but i shall now prove that the writings of the apostles were intended by the holy ghost to be a standing rule , whereby the church was to judge which was the true and genuine doctrine of christ. . from the reasons and occasions of writing the books of the new testament . . as to the gospels , we must distinguish the general reason of writing them , from the particular occasions as to the several gospels . the general reason is to be drawn from the divine wisdom which inspired and guided them ; the particular occasions relate to the circumstances of writing them . the general reason is that which irenaeus gives , viz. that the gospel which they had first preached , was by the will of god put into writing , that it might be a foundation and pillar of our faith. not meerly to keep up the remembrance of it , which fevardentius yields , and thereby overthrows the infallibility of oral tradition ; but that so it may be a certain rule of faith to all ages . the evangelists saith st. augustin , were but christs hands , which himself as the head , directed in writing the gospels , and therefore we are to look on the gospels as his own hand-writing . the holy ghost , saith he , directed the minds of the evangelists , as to the order and manner of their writing . which varied according to the particular occasions , but yet were all subservient to the general reason . st. matthew wrote the first gospel , saith eusebius , to the jews to whom he had preached , because going into other parts he would supply the want of his presence among them by his writing . what need this , if tradition were a certain and infallible way of conveying the doctrine of christ ? st. chrysostom saith , the jewish christians desired him to put into writing what they had heard him preach . did not they understand the force of tradition better ? or why should st. matthew put them out of an infallible way ? the authority of the imperfect work on st. matthew saith , they desired him to write his gospel , that where ever they went they might carry an account of their faith with them . clemens alexandrinus , saith , the occasion of writing st. marks gospel was , that the people were not satisfied with an unwritten delivery of the holy doctrine , and therefore importuned mark , who was the disciple of st. peter , that he would leave a monument of his doctrine in writing ; which st. peter understanding by revelation , approved and confirmed his gospel for the use of the churches . origen saith , he wrote it according to st. peters directions . epiphanius saith , by his authority , athanasius saith , it was dictated by him at rome . it seems that peter himself did not think fit to leave the doctrine of christ to an oral tradition , even at rome , but irenaeus thinks it was written after st. peters decease , who therein differs from the rest , and shews how uncertain meer tradition is . tertullian saith , st. marks gospel was attributed to st. peter , and st. lukes to st. paul. st. ierom mentions the opinion of some , that when st. paul saith according to my gospel , he means that of st. luke . but st. luke himself plainly gives an account of the occasion of his writing . st. ambrose thinks by those who had taken in hand to write of those things which were firmly believed among us , he means the authors of the counterfeit gospels , as that of the twelve apostles and st. matthias . but we have no evidence that these were older than st. luke ; his meaning is , that in those parts where he was , there were some who did undertake to give an account of the life and actions of christ , who wanted the advantages which he had ; having had great opportunities of knowing circumstances from the eye-witnesses ; and therefore he set himself to give an exact relation of them , that not only theophilus , but every one that answers his name might know the certainty of those things wherein they had been instructed . but , did not they know the certainty of these things by the apostles preaching ? yes , but the things they heard might slip out of their memories ; and to prevent this , saith theophylact , st. luke wrote his gospel , that they might retain these things with greater certainty . and words that are only spoken are more easily misunderstood ; which maldonat assigns , as one great reason of the evangelists writing their several gospels . st. iohn likewise gives an account himself of the reason of his writing ; and that the greatest imaginable . but these are written that ye might believe that iesus is the christ , the son of god , and that believing ye might have life through his name . why written that ye might believe ? did the apostle in his old age mistrust the understandings or the memories of christians ? was not the apostles teaching sufficient to keep up the principles of the christian faith in the hearts of the people ; no , not while st. iohn himself was yet living ? he had certainly a very mean opinion of tradition , that thought it necessary for him to write that they might believe that iesus is the son of god. for there was no point of faith more necessary than this , which was required of all persons to be owned before baptism . yet for all this , and whatever else can be said , st. iohn thought it necessary that these things be written that they might believe . he lived the longest of any of the apostles , and therefore saw how little tradition was to be trusted ; for it was already corrupted in so weighty a point as the divinity of christ. cerinthus and his followers allow'd the general tradition of the church , that iesus was the son of god ; but then they gave their own sense of it , by extraordinary favour and adoption . and from hence the fathers agree that st. iohn took occasion to write his divine gospel , to clear this fundamental point of the christian faith. and withal observing that the other evangelists insisted chiefly on the actions of christ for one year , viz. after johns imprisonment he resumes the whole matter , and adds those things which were omitted by the rest ; that so the church might be furnished with a full relation of all that was necessary to compleat and establish the faith of christians . . as to the epistles . the first epistle we read of in the christian church , ( and in probability the first writing in the new testament ) was the decretal epistle of the council of ierusalem . what should make the apostles put these decrees into writing ? they were very short , and concerned the practices of men , and withal were sent by barnabas and paul , and iudas , and silas . were not these sufficient to deliver the apostles sense to the churches , without letters from them ? what a pitiful thing did they take oral tradition to be , if they thought such men could not by it give full satisfaction to the churches of syria and cilicia , unless they sent it under their hands ? the epistle to the romans was written by st. paul on purpose to clear some main points of the christian doctrine , which were then warmly disputed between the jews and the christians , and between the judaizing christians and others , as about iustification , rejection of the iews , the difference of meats , &c. and st. paul took very needless pains in writing that excellent epistle , if he knew of christs appointing a iudge of controversies there ; or if he thought writing were not a certain way to make a rule of faith , whereby they were to judge in those matters . the first epistle to the corinthians was written not meerly to reprove their factions and disorders ; but to direct them , and to establish and prove the faith of the resurrection , which was then contested among them . the epistle was sent by stephanus and fortunatus , who could have carried the apostles sense without his writing ; but there are many weighty things , besides the particular occasions which are of lasting concernment to the church in all ages ; as there are likewise in his second epistle to them . the epistle to the galatians was written on occasion of one of the greatest points of controversy at that time , viz. the use and obligation of the law of moses . and st. paul sound by sad experience among them , that it was very possible for those who had the best instructions , either to forget them , or to grow out of love with them , and to be fond of a change ; else he would never have said , o foolish galatians , who hath bewitched you that ye should not obey the truth ? and i marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of christ into another gospel , how was it indeed possible for them to be removed , and to be soon removed , who had received the faith by the delivery of st. paul himself ? then , for all that i can see , human nature taken with all its advantages and motives , and evidences , is a very sallible thing ; and if then it might be deceived , and that so easily and grosly ; then much more in any following age of the church ; unless human nature be mightily changed for the better , since the apostles times ; or any teachers since be more effectual , than the apostles , and especially than st. paul , who laboured more abundantly than they all . the epistle to the ephesians , though written upon a general argument , yet doth suppose that they were in continual danger of being deceived ; and tossed up and down , and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the sleight of men , and cunning craftiness whereby they lie in wait to deceive . and therefore he advises them to be upon their guard , and to have their armour about them , and one choice part of it , is the sword of the spirit , which is the word of god. the philippians were assaulted by a rude , violent , head-strong faction of judaizers ; which the apostle bids them to beware of ; and writes his epistle to them for that purpose , and he exhorts them to stand fast in one spirit , with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel . in the second epistle to the thessalonians , and in both epistles to timothy , he gives notice of a great defection from the christian faith ; he describes the manner of it , that it shall be with signs and lying words , and with all deceiveableness of unrighteousness in them that perish , because they received not the love of the truth ; that they shall speak lies in hypocrisie , and forbid to marry , and command to abstain from meats , being evil men , having a form of godliness , and denying the power of it . i meddle not now with the time when this apostacy began ; but from hence , it is evident that st. paul supposed , that those who at first received the christian faith by tradition from the apostles themselves , might notwithstanding through their own weakness and folly , and the artifices of deceivers be drawn from it ; and that to prevent such mischievous consequences , he knew no better means than a written rule , which he tells timothy was able to make him wise to salvation ; and to make the man of god perfect , throughly furnished to every good work. and to name no more , the colossians were set upon by some who thought to refine christianity ; or at least to make it more passable in the world , and therefore would have introduced into it some rites of the jews , some austerities of the gentiles , some ways of worship which would recommend them to their adversaries ; and upon this occasion he writes this epistle to them to convince them that christianity alone was far beyond any mixtures of the fancies or traditions of men , and therefore he could give them no better advice , than as they had first received the doctrine of christ to continue in it , or in the words of the text , as they had received christ iesus the lord so to walk in him . the design of what i have said is , that although the gospels and epistles were written upon particular occasions ; yet those occasions were so great and considerable ; and the assistance of the holy ghost did so direct the hands and pens of the evangelists and apostles in writing them , that what they have therein delivered contains a compleat rule of the true and genuine faith , as it was at first delivered to the church . but against this , it is objected , that st. paul himself charged the thessalonians to stand fast and hold the traditions which they have been taught either by word or by his epistles . from whence it appears , that there were other traditions to be held , that were not written . the force of all this will be taken away , if we consider when that epistle was written ; viz. one of the first which st. paul wrote , and soon after the former epistle to the thessalonians ; which was some time before st. lukes gospel , which was first received in the churches of greece planted by st. paul. therefore all the proper doctrine of christ himself , and all that relates to his life and actions were then but traditions among them ; and therefore st. paul had great reason then to require them to stand fast to the traditions they had been taught ; i. e. to the doctrine of christ they had received in that manner . but it is urged , that he mentions before , something he had said about antichrists coming when he was with them , v. . if this be allow'd , it will be more against than for tradition . for , what is become of that tradition ? if it be lost , then it follows that tradition is no infallible way of conveyence ; and therefore we have more reason to adhere to a written word . . which leads us to the second reason from which i designed to prove , that there ought to be a written rule for discerning true primitive christianity ; and that is from the notorious uncertainty of meer tradition . i say , notorious , because there never was any tryal made of it , but it failed , even when it had the greatest advantages . i might insist upon the tradition of the first ages of the world ; when mens lives were so long , and the principles of the natural religion so few ; and yet both before and after the flood , mankind was strangely degenerated from them . i might insist on many instances in the first ages of the christian church ; so many , that scarce one can be produced wherein they pleaded meer tradition , but they were mistaken in it ; as about the millennium , the age of christ , the time of easter ( on one side or other ) the communicating infants . for st. augustin quotes apostolical tradition for it . but i shall wave all these , and only mention a very necessary and important thing , which was a long time trusted to tradition , and yet they differ'd so much about it , as evidently proved , that meer tradition was no infallible means of conveyance . and that is about the apostles creed which was to be repeated by all that were to be baptized . we have many plain testimonies to prove , that this was not to be written ; but to be conveyed from one to another , by an oral tradition ; a st. hierom , b st. augustin , c ruffinus all affirm it . and the creed was commonly then called d the rule of faith ; which shewed that they looked on all the articles therein contained , as the standard of necessary points . and yet there is a plain and considerable difference in the antient creeds ; some articles being in some which were not in others ; although we have reason to believe the necessary points were at first the same in all . or else the several churches must have different rules of faith. the church of ierusalem was called c the mother of all churches by the general council of constantinople ; and in the creed there delivered to the catechumens . d st. cyril mentions the eternal generation of the son before all worlds ; and so doth e eusebius at caesarea in the creed , which he saith , he learnt at his baptism , which was long before the nicene creed . f cassian makes it a part of that creed which the apostles delivered to the church , and was particularly received in the church of antioch . but no such thing was delivered in the western creeds as far as now appears , by what st. augustin , ruffinus , and others say in their expositions of it . st. ierom writing against the bishop of ierusalem , urges him with the creed , g ( no doubt that which was received in his own church ) and he saith , it consisteth of three main points , the confession of the trinity , the unity of the church , and the resurrection of the flesh. and the creed of the church of aquileia went no farther , saith h ruffinus ; nor some old copies of the roman creed . but marcellus of ancyra had eternal life in his i creed , and so had k cyril of ierusalem ; so had the african church in st. l augustins time ; so had the church of ravena ; but not the church of turin ; nor the gallican churches ; if maimus taurinensis , and venantius fortunatus explained all the articles of their creeds . ruffinus confesses the article of descent into hell was not in the roman , nor in any of the eastern creeds . the creeds of ierusalem and aquileia had not the communion of saints ; nor those of marcellus and m epiphanius . the title of catholick was not added to the church in the creed in st. n augustins time ; for he makes it a periphrasis , utique catholicam , from whence probably it came to be added afterwards . ruffinus takes no notice of it , and it was not extant in the old copies of the roman creed ; nor in that of marcellus ancyranus . these things i mention , not in the least to shake the faith of the articles of the apostles creed ; which o st. augustin saith was gathered out of scriptures , and is agreeable to them ; but to shew what an uncertain way of conveyance meer oral tradition is , when a thing so easily remembred , so constantly used , of so much weight and consequence fell into such varieties in the greatest . churches , while they were so scrupulous about the writing of it . what cause have we then to be thankful to god , that hath taken so much care of his church , as to provide us an infallible written rule in the holy scriptures , whereby we certainly know , what the true primitive christianity was , which was delivered by christ and his apostles ? but here is a great difficulty to be removed , as to the written word . how can we be certain , we have it , if not by tradition ? and if tradition be so uncertain , how can we be made certain by it , that we have that written word which the apostles delivered ? for might not that fail in this , as well as the creed ? and then what security can we have for our faith ? in answer to this , i shall shew , . what advantage things that are written have , as to the certainty of conveyance above things meerly committed to memory and tradition . . what advantage the scriptures have , above any other things committed to writing as to the certainty of their conveyence . . as to the advantage things written have above those committed to memory and tradition only . which will appear by these things , . it was the way god himself made choice of , where the reason for tradition was stronger ; i mean as to the ten commandments , which were short and plain , and easy to be remembred , and very agreeable to the sense and general interest of mankind ; yet the wise god who perfectly understood the nature of man , would not leave the ten commandments to an oral tradition , but god delivered to moses two tables of stone written with the finger of god ; and on them he wrote the ten commandments . what a vain and superstuous thing were this , if oral and practical tradition were infallible ? but gods own pitching upon this way , after so long a tryal of mankind in the other ; is a demonstration of the greater certainty of it , if we suppose that god aimed at the benefit of mankind by it . . when religion was corrupted among the jews , the only way of restoring it was by a written book of the law. as we find in the case of iosiahs reformation , which was made by the book of the law , which was found in the house of the lord. this was the rule by which hilkiah the high priest , thought it necessary for iosiah to go by ; and not by any tradition left among them concerning the law which god had given by moses . . this was that which our saviour appealed to in all his disputes ; search the scriptures , saith he to the iews ; not run to your traditions , for those were then very corrupt , especially about the messias , as that he was to be a temporal prince , &c. which was then a dangerous and fundamental mistake ; and therefore christ appeals from them to the scriptures ; and they are they which testifie of me . had ye believed moses , ye would have believed me , for he wrote of me ; but if ye believe not his writings , how shall ye believe my words ? and our saviour severely checks the pharisees for regarding their own traditions more than the written law. and yet they pretended to an oral tradition down from moses ; as the jews do to this day ; and none are more grosly deceived than they . . the general sense and experience of mankind agrees herein , that all matters of consequence are more certainly preserved by writings than by meer words . there is no invention hath been more valued by the wiser part of mankind than that of letters ; because it is of such excellent use for conveying the sense of our minds at a distance to others . all men have so great a mistrust , either of the capacity or memory , or fidelity of others ; that what they would have done with security they commit to writing . and whatever we truly understand of the ages before us , we are beholden to writing for it ; all those memorable actions , and institutions , either of philosophy or religion which were not written , are long since buried in oblivion , without possibility of a resurrection . but where they have been committed to writing they are preserved after so many ages ; and by it we certainly know the history of the patriarchs , and the strange revolutions that happened from the beginning of the world. by it , we converse with the wisest persons of former times ; and were able to justifie the scriptures by the concurrent testimonies of other writers . by it , we are enabled to interpret prophecies , and to make plain their accomplishments , which without it , we could never make out . yea by it , the wisdom of those is preserved for the benefit of mankind , who thought fit to write nothing themselves , as socrates and pythagoras , but their disciples took care in time to write their doctrines . so that we have the general consent of the wisest part of mankind , that writing is a far more certain way of conveyance than meer tradition . . and especially in our case where there are so many particular advantages , as to the holy scriptures , above any other writings . . from the special providence of god , with respect to them ; for since it is agreed by all christians , that these were written by divine inspiration , it is most reasonable to believe , that a more than ordinary care would be taken to preserve them . and therefore to suppose any books of scripture to be lost , which contained any necessary points of faith is a great reflexion on divine providence . for , if god watches over his church , he cannot be supposed to let such books be lost which were designed for the universal and lasting benefit of his church . . from the mighty esteem which the church of god had always for them ; for , they built their hopes of heaven upon the promises contained in them . the book of scripture was their evidence for their future inheritance ; the foundation of their hope , and rule of their faith ; their defence against assaults and temptations ; their counseller in cases of difficulty ; their support , under troubles ; and their surest guide to a happy eternity ; and therefore the primitive christians chose rather to endure any torments than basely to betray it , and give it up to their enemies . . from the early disputes that were about them . which shews that they were no invention of after times ; nor were brought into the world by stealth and art ; for , they endured the greatest shock of opposition at first , while the matters of fact concerning them were the most easily proved . and having passed the severe scrutiny of the first ages , when so many counterfeit writings were sent abroad , the following ages could have no reason to call their authority in question . . from the general consent of divided churches about them . it might have pleased god to have kept his church from those unhappy breaches which have been in all parts of the christian world ; but the east , and the west , the north and the south can all bear testimony to the sad divisions of christendom ; and those of many ages standing . but yet , we have this considerable advantage by them ; that we can have no reason to mistrust a conspiracy where the several bodies are so much divided . . from the great internal satisfaction which the minds of good men have concerning them ; and which no other writing can pretend to give . for here we read of the promise of divine assistance to sincere and humble minds . and that assistance carries a lumen fidei into the mind ; as aquinas calls it . . a ad . and by that he saith , the mind is united to truth , that its assent is only fixed upon it ; and therefore there is no danger of damnation to those who are in christ iesus , and are thus illuminated by faith in him . not that this is an argument to convince others , who have not that inward sense which they have ; but the same holy spirit which did at first indite them , may give such an inward and effectual testimony as to the truth of the matter contained in them ; that from thence they may firmly conclude these books to contain the word of god. and that assurance which the minds of good men have from the influence of divine grace , may be more effectual and powerful in them , than all the pretended infallibility or demonstration in the world. it is certain those cannot be deceived whom the holy spirit teacheth ; and the best and wisest of the antient schoolmen did make the great firmness and certainty of faith not to depend on outward motives , but on inward grace ; which so inlightned the mind , and fixed the inclinations of the soul , that nothing is able to remove it . this sort of faith is no blind assent ; but after all the evidence which it hath to make its assent reasonable ; it takes so fast a hold of divine truths by discerning the excellency and value of them , that he that hath it is willing to let go any thing rather than that ; and although the apprehension of faith be not so clear as that of science ; yet the hypostasis , as the apostle calls it , may be so firm , that no temptations may be able to shake it . and he that can die for his religion hath a stronger and better faith , than he that thinks himself never so infallible in the grounds of it . that is a true divine faith which purifies the heart , and thereby enlightens the mind ; which works by love , and not by cavilling and wrangling about the grounds of it ; which overcomes the world , and not that which overcomes the temptations of it . and such a faith , and only such a one will carry us to heaven ; when , if it were possible for us to have the utmost infallibility in the act of believing ; yet if it did not work effectually on our hearts and lives , we might go infallibly to hell. and so i shall conclude this discourse with the second sense of the obligation which lies on those who have received christ iesus the lord so to walk in him : i. e. to improve their sound faith into the practice of a good life . for alas ! what advantage will it be to us , to have the most primitive and apostolical faith , if our works be not answerable to it ? why call ye me lord , lord , saith christ , and do not the thing which i say ? why do we pretend to receive christ iesus the lord , if we do not observe his commands ? it is good , saith s. paul , to be zealously affected always in a good thing . and no doubt our faith is such ; but then let us be zealous of good works too , that we may shew our selves to be that peculiar people who are redeemed by iesus christ. so that our obligation arises every way from christ iesus the lord , to walk in him ; if we consider him as our lord , so we are to obey him ; if as christ iesus , so he died for us to redeem us from all iniquity . we can have no pretence to live in our sins , if we have received him who commands us to forsake them ; for then we receive and reject him at the same time . let every one that names the name of christ , depart from iniquity , saith st. paul , what should those then do that profess to receive him as their lord , who are thereby bound to yield obedience to his laws ? one of the great causes of the degeneracy of the heathen world was the separating religion and morality ; when this was left to the schools of philosophers to instruct men in , whereas their religion consisted only of some solemn rites and sacrifices . let us have a care of as dangerous a separation between faith and works , or which is all one , between receiving christ , and doing his will. for those are the proper works of the gospel , wherein we own christ as our lord , and do them because he commands us . and the apostle hath summ'd up the whole duty of christians in those comprehensive words , teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts , we should live soberly , righteously , and godly in this present world ; looking for that blessed hope , and the glorious appearance of the great god , and our saviour iesus christ. to whom , &c. finis . errata . page . line . for days read places . p. . l. . r. matim●● . p. . l. . for were ● . are . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e cor. . . col. . . col. . . john . . rom. . . . . cor. . . . gal. . . . ch. . v. . ●● . v. . russia . in symbol . joh , . . acts . . gal. . . . . euseb. hist. l. . c. . iren. l. . c. . . tertul. de praescript . haer. john , , . euseb. hist l. . c. . luk. . . i●●n . l. . c. . aug. de con. ●ers . evang. l. . c. . l. . c. . euseb hist. l. . c. . 〈…〉 〈…〉 . in mat. in pr●●ogo . euseb. l. . c. . euseb. l. . c. . epiphan . haer. . athanas. in synopsi . p. . t●t●l . c. marc. l. . c. . hieron . de script . eccles . ambros. in luc. luke . . epiph. haer. . theophyl . in luc. maldonat . com. in evang . prol . joh. . . hierom. proem . in matth. de script . eccles. epiph. h● . . chrys. hom . . in matth. euseb. l. . c. . act. . . cor. . . gal. . . . . cor. . . eph. . . . . phil. . . . . thess. . . . tim. . , . tim. . . . tim. . , . thess. . . bell. de verbo . l. . c. . aug. de peccat meritis . l. . c. . a in symbolo fidei & sp●i nostrae , quod ad apostolis traditum , non scribitur in charta & atramento , sid in tabulis cordis carnalibus . hieron . ad pammaclu : advers . errores joh. hierosol . b nec ut eadem verba symboli teneatis , ullo modo debetis scribere , sed audiendo perdisctre ; nec cum didic●ritis scribere , sed memoria semper tenere & recolere . august . de diversis serm. . c iacirco denique haec non scribi chartulis & membronis , sid requiri credentium cordibus tradiderunt , ut certum esset haec neminem ex lectione , quae interdum 〈…〉 ad infideles solet , sed ex . apostolorum traditione didicisse . ruffinus in symbol . d tetul de prascrip . c. , , , . de virgin. v●l. c. . adv●s . pra●●am . c. . august . som. . . . . retract . l. . c. . en●i●i● . de fide , n. . de symbol . ad ca●●c● . r●ffin . in ●●oem . c theod. l. . c. . d cyrill . 〈◊〉 . . e theodo . l. . c. . f cassian de 〈◊〉 . l. . c. , . g hi●●on ad pammach h ruffin in symbol . p. . v. vsser . de symb. p. , . i epiph. 〈◊〉 haeres . . k cyrill . catech. . l august . de symb. l. . petr. chrysol , serm. , &c. m epiph ancor at n augustin● de fide & symbolo . et de symbolo serm. . o de symbolo ad catech. c. . deut. . . . . kings . . . , . john . . . . matt. . . . heb. . . act. . . gal. . . joh. . . luk. . . gal. . . tit. . . tim. . . tit. . . . a second discourse in vindication of the protestant grounds of faith, against the pretence of infallibility in the roman church in answer to the guide in controversies by r.h., protestancy without principles, and reason and religion, or, the certain rule of faith by e.w. : with a particular enquiry into the miracles of the roman church / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : or : ) a second discourse in vindication of the protestant grounds of faith, against the pretence of infallibility in the roman church in answer to the guide in controversies by r.h., protestancy without principles, and reason and religion, or, the certain rule of faith by e.w. : with a particular enquiry into the miracles of the roman church / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], - , [ ] p. printed by r.w. for h. mortlock ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library and duke university library. forms pt. of his "an answer to several late treatises occasioned by a book entitled, a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome. the first part." (wing s ). errata: prelim. p. [ ]. marginal notes. advertisement: p. [ ]-[ ] at end. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng r. h., - . -- guide in controversies. e. w. -- (edward worsley), - . -- protestancy without principles. e. w. -- (edward worsley), - . -- reason and religion. catholic church -- infallibility -- controversial literature. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion imprimatur , sam. parker r. in christo patri ac d no. d no. gilberto , arch. episc. cantuar. à sac . dom. april . . a second discourse in vindication of the protestant grounds of faith , against the pretence of infallibility in the roman church , in answer to the guide in controversies by r. h protestancy without principles , and reason and religion , or the certain rule of faith by e. w. with a particular enquiry into the miracles of the roman church . by edward stillingfleet d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london , printed by r. w. for h. martlock , at the sign of the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , and at the white hart in westminster hall. . to the right honourable anthony earl of shaftsbury , lord high chancellour of england , &c. my lord , i hope it will not be thought unseasonable to make an address of this nature to your lordship in the beginning of term , since the great cause at present in your court ( as one of late pleasantly said ) is thaet between the king and the pope , between our church and the church of rome . and while so many witnesses are daily sworn of the kings and the churches side ; it may not be improper to lay open to your lordship the nature and merits of the cause . a cause , my lord , which was at first set on foot by ambition , carried on by faction , and must therefore be maintained by the like means ; but can never hope to prevail among us again , till subjection to a forreign power can be thought our interest , and to part at once with reason and religion be esteemed our honour . it is a cause much of the nature of some others depending before your lordship , more vexatious than difficult ; and managed by such advocates who being retained in the cause , though they have nothing material to say for it , yet are ashamed to be silent . who are alwayes disputing about an end of controversies , but at the same time do their utmost to increase and perpetuate them ; and are ready to foment our differences that they may make use of them to their own advantage . while we have such restless adversaries to deal with , part of our danger lyes in being too secure of the goodness of our cause : and methinks there can be little satisfaction in lying still or quarrelling with each other , when we know our common enemies to be at work undermining of us . but whatever repose others enjoy , my adversaries seem to deal with me , as some do with those whom they suspect of witchcraft ; they think by pinching me so often , and keeping me from taking rest , to make me say at last as they would have me . but the comfort is , as long as i am secure of my senses , i am of my religion against theirs : if i once lose them or my understanding , i know not whether it may be my fortune to be carried to rome , or some more convenient place . and in my opinion they deal with those under their care , as if they believed them not to be in their right senses , for they keep them alwayes in the dark , and think nothing more dangerous than to let in light upon them . wherein i cannot deny , but considering the nature of their cause , they take the most effectual course to maintain it ; for it not being capable of enduring a severe tryal , nothing can preserve its reputation , but ignorance and credulity : which are therefore in so great esteem among them , that if it were a custome to canonize things as well as persons , we might find those sacred names in their litanies ; and addresses as solemn made to them , as ever were to faith and vertue among the elder and wiser romans . i need not go far , for an instance of their design to advance , even in this inquisitive age , the honour of these two great pillars of their church : for if your lordship shall be pleased to cast your eye on the following discourse , especially that part which concerns the miracles of the roman church , you will find fufficient evidence of it almost in every page . when i first engaged in this controversie i could hardly believe what i now see , that they would ever have brought it to this issue with me , viz. that they would renounce all claim to infallibility , if they did not produce as great miracles wrought in their church to attest it , as ever were wrought by christ or his apostles . the boldness of which assertion , and the pernicious influence of it upon christianity it self , hath made me take the more pains in the examination of it . which i have done with so much care in consulting their own approved authors , that i hope at last they will grow ashamed of that groundless calumny , that i do not deal fairly in the citing of them . a calumny so void of proof , that i could desire no better argument of a baffled cause , than such impertinent clamours . but if impudent sayings will serve their turn , they need never fear what can be written against them . do they indeed think me a man so void of common sense , as to expose my self so easily to the contempt of every one that will but take pains to compare my citations ? have i the books only in my own keeping ? or are they so rare that they cannot get a sight of them ? how then come they to know them to be false quoted ? but alas ! they are men of business , and have not leisure to search out and compare books , and therefore the shortest way is to say , that without doubt they are all false . their numbers certainly are not so small , nor their business so great , but they might have spared some to have undertaken this task particularly , if i had been faulty : and in my mind it had been of some consequence to have freed their church from those heavy imputations of fanaticism , and destroying the necessity of a good life , from the testimony of their own authors . but if these could not move them , i desire them not to spare me in this present subject of miracles , wherein i profess to relye on the testimony of their own writers ; if they shew me any wilful mistakes therein , i will endeavour to give them publick satisfaction . were i not well assured , my lord , of the strength of my evidence , as well as of the goodness of my cause , i should never have appeared in it before a person of so sharp and piercing a judgement as your lordship . but i have the rather presumed to offer this discourse into your lordships hands , and to send it abroad under the protection of your name , not only thereby to acknowledge the particular favours i have received from your lordship ; but to thank you on a more publick account , i mean for your late generous owning the cause of our religion and church in so critical a time ; which not only gives a present lustre to your name , but will preserve it with honour to posterity . i am , my lord , your lordships most obliged and faithful servant edward stillingfleet . the contents . chap. . an answer to the guide in controversies about infallibility and the resolution of faith. the state of the controversie . p. . the principles of the guide in controversies . p. . those principles considered . p. . of particular divine revelation as the ground of faith. p. . the resolution of divine faith must agree to all . p. . of immediate assent . p. . of the assistance of the holy ghost . p. . the absurdities of the guides principles . . chap. ii. the principles of e. w. about divine faith laid down and considered . e. w's . principles laid done . p. . some things premised to the state of the question . p. . of the necessity of grace and the sense of moral certainty in this controversie . p. . . gods veracity as the foundation of faith not received on divine revelation . p. . of the notion of divine faith . p. . the true state of the question . p. . my first argument laid down and defended . p. . of the motives of credibility and their influence upon faith . p. . of the grounds of faith. p. . of the school-notion of the obscurity of faith . p. . of the scripture notion of it . p. . of the power of the will in the assent of faith . p. . the second argument defended against e. w. p. . of the circle in the resolution of faith not avoided by e. w. p. . chap. iii. an enquiry into the miracles of the roman church . e. w's . assertions about the miracles of the roman church . p. . the ways proposed for examination of them . p. . of the miraculous translation of the chappel of loreto . p. . of the miracles wrought at the chappel of loreto . p. . of the miracles wrought by st. james at compostella . p. . of st. mary magdalens vial and other reliques . p. . of the miracles of st. dominick . p. . of the miracles of the rosary of the b. virgin. p. . of the miracles of st. francis. p. . of the miracles related of the british and irish saints . p. . of the testimonies of st. chrysostom and st. augustin against the continuance of the power of miracles . p. . of the miracles of st. vincentius ferrerius . p. . of the testimonies of their own writers against the miracles of the roman church . p. . of the miracles reported by bede and st. gregory . p. . of the miracles wrought in the indies . p. . of the impostures and forgeries of miracles in the roman church in several examples . p. . of the insufficiency of this argument from their miracles to prove the infullibility of their church . p. . several conclusions about the proof of miracles . p. . the miracles of heathens and hereticks compared with those of the roman church . p. . errata . page . line . read ultimate . p. . l. . ● . asse●t p. . l. r. signatures . p. . l. . r. convince . l. . r. disp●ssessed . p. . l. . r. consi●●ing p. . l. . r. several p. . l. . r. any better p. . after saints insert ▪ than p. . l. . r. ●o●l , p. . l. . r. anglerius . chap. i. an answer to the guide in controversies about infallibility , and the resolution of faith. § . . there are two great pleas for the necessity of infallibility in the roman church , one to make an end of controversies , the other to lay a sufficient foundation for divine faith. having therefore fully examined the former plea in the foregoing discourse , i shall now proceed to the latter ; with a particular respect to those adversaries , who have undertaken the defence of the cause of the church of rome against me in this controversie . and because all this dispute refers to the principles of faith , i shall undertake to shew , . that the principles laid down by them are false and fallacious . . that the protestant principles defended by me are sound and true . . for the better examination of their principles , i shall give a brief account of the rise and state of this controversie about the grounds of faith. the arch-bishops adversary in conference with him , asked how he knew the scripture to be the word of god , hoping thereby to drive him to the necessity of owning the infallible testimony of the present roman church : but he failed so much of his end , that the arch-bishop fully proved , that such a testimony could not be the foundation of that faith , whereby we believe the scriptures , to be the word of god ; and that there are sufficient grounds for faith without it . one of the great arguments whereby he disproved that way of resolving faith was , that it was impossible to avoid a vitious circle in proving the churches infallibility by scripture , and the scripture by the infallible testimony of the church . this difficulty , which hath puzled the greatest wits of the roman church , his answerer thought to avoid by saying , that the churches infallibility was not primarily proved by the scripture , but by the motives of credibility which belong to the church in the same manner that moses and the prophets , christ and his apostles were proved to be infallible . which bold assertion obliged me in a large discourse to shew these three things . . that this way of resolving faith was manifestly unreasonable . . that supposing it true he could not avoid the circle by it . . that it was false and built on no other ground but a daring confidence . . the first i proved . . because an assent is hereby required beyond all proportion or degree of evidence ; the assent required being infallible and the evidence only probable and prudential motives . . because hereby they must run into all the absurdities they would seek to avoid , it being impossible to give a better account of faith by the infallibility of the roman church , than we can do without it ; both sides acknowledging that those motives of credibility do hold for the scriptures , which are by us denied to belong to their church ; and if faith as to the scriptures be uncertain if it rely on them , much more must it be so as to the churches infallibility : if divine faith as to the scriptures can rest upon motives of credibility , there can be no necessity of the churches infallibility to a divine faith ; if it cannot , how come those motives to be a sufficient ground for such a faith as to the church ? for the churches infallibility being the reason as to them of believing the things contained in the scripture , it ought to be believed with a faith equally divine with that whereby we are to believe the scriptures which are the instrument of conveyin● the matters of faith to us . besides , th● leaves every mans reason to be judge in th● choice of his religion ; because every ma● must satisfie himself as to the credibility o● those motives . and after all , this way o● resolving faith by the churches infallibility , doth unsettle the very foundations o● faith laid by christ and his apostles , wh● all supposed a rational certainty of the motives of faith to be a sufficient foundatio● for it ; but the pretence of infallibility do●● overthrow the evidence of sense and reason and put the whole tryal of the truth of christianity upon the pitiful proofs which the● bring for the church of romes infallibility . and when they have brought men to it they cannot assure them what that church is which they attribute this infallibility to who in that church are the proper subjects of it ; what kind of infallibility it is ; no● when the church doth define infallibly : so many things are to be believed without reason , both as the persons who are to define , and the manner of their definitions . . supposing this way true , the circle still remains : which i proved by three things . ● . from the nature of the faith they enquire for a resolution of , which is not humane but divine faith. for the question was not , whether by another kind of assent they could not escape the circle ; but whether they could ●o it in the resolution of divine faith or not ? either then the churches infallibility is not to be believed with a divine faith , or there may be a divine faith without an infallible testimony , or this divine faith of the churches infallibility , must be built on the scripture , and so the circle returns . . from the persons whose faith is to be resolved ; the way of resolving faith being a different thing from proving a matter of faith to an adversary ; granting then that to those who deny the churches infallibility , but allow the scriptures , they may prove the one by the other yet this signifies nothing to the resolution of their own faith , which is the thing enquired after : and yet even in proving to ●d●ersaries the churches infallibility from scipture● they cannot avoid the circle , when the question returns about the sense of those places ; for then they must run to the church ; because the church which is infallible hath delivered this to be the sense of them . . from the nature of that infallibility which they attribute to the church , which being not by immediate divine revelation , but by a supernatural assistance promised in scripture it is impossible to prove this infallibility , but by first proving the truth of tha● scripture wherein these promises are contained , and so the circle still returns ; for the believe the scriptures infallible because o● the churches testimony , and they belie●● the church infallible because of the promises of her assistance recorded in scripture . . it is false that there are the same motive of credibility as to the churches infallibility which there were for the infallibility of mos●● and the prophets , christ and his apostles which t. c. therefore very wisely declined t● prove , and only said it was sufficient to she● how he had escaped the circle . § . . this is a brief account of that pan of the resolution of faith which hath bee● since assaulted by two several adversarie● but in different ways . the first of them i● the guide in controversies ; who ingenuousl● confesseth the question about the resolutio● of faith upon their principles to be intricat● ; so any one might easily guess by the intricacy and obscurity of his answer to it . i shall endeav●ur to bring it to as much clearness a● possibly i can ; that i may the better represent the force and consequences of it . the substance of what he saith , may be reduced to these propositions . . that the church may be considered two ways . . as a society already manifested by divine revelation ( whether written or unwritten ) to be infallibly assisted by the holy ghost . . as a society of men whose testimony is to be received upon prudential motives . . that the church being considered in the former of the two acceptions ; the infallible authority and testimony thereof is not only an introductive into , but one of the articles of divine faith ; and that so many as believe the churches infallibility in this sense , may safely resolve their divine faith of other articles of their belief into its delivering them as such . . that whatever this infallible authority of the church be , it is not necessary that every one for attaining a divine and saving faith , be infallibly certain of this infallible authority ; or as he elsewhere expresseth it ; that it is not necessary for divine faith , that it should always have an external rationally-infallible ground , or motive thereto ( whether church-authority or any other ) on his part that so believes : or that he have some extrinsecal motive or proponent of which he is infallibly certain that it is infallible . . there are two sorts of faith to be resolved divine and humane , or infused and acquisite ; the one is always built upon divine revelation , the other needs no more than prudential motives , or such as are sufficiently credible or morally infallible ; on which an acquired or humane faith securely rests . . that there must be particular ultimate divine revelation , ( which may not be to all the same but to some one , to some another , viz. either scripture , or churches testimony , or apostolical tradition or miracles ) beyond which he can resolve his divine faith no further , for proving or consirming which revelation , he can produce no other divine revelution , but there must end ; unless a process be made in infinitum , or a running round . . divine faith as to such altimate particular divine revelation , cannot be grounded meerly on gods veracity , but that god hath said this particular thing which we believe ( namely that the testimony of the church , or apostles , or scriptures is true ) which must either be grounded ( that it may be the foundation of a divine faith ) on some other divine revelation and so in infinitum , or else i must rest there with an immediate assent to it . . the internal efficient of all divine faith is the power or grace of the holy ghost illuminating the understanding , that the prime verity cannot lye in whatever thing it reveals ; and also that the particular articles of our faith are its revelations ; and perswading and operating in the will such a firm adherence unto these articles , as many times far exceeds that of any humane science or demonstrations . . the ultimate resolution of a christians divine faith , as to the extrinsecal prime motive , ground , reason or principle thereof , that equals in certainty the faith built upon it , can be no other than that particular divine revelation which is first made known to him , or from which in building his faith ●e proceeds to the rest ; as to the internal efficient , it is into the grace of the holy spirit . . the motives of credibility , or the rational evidence of the truth of christianity do serve indeed antecedently for an introductive to , or ( after it introduced ) for a confirmative of this divine faith , i. e. to make it credible or acceptable to humane reason ( my own or others ) that this faith is true and no way liable to error ; that i am assured in it by the holy and no seducing spirit ; but not to constitute it in the notion of faith divine ; because the faith so stiled is supposed to rest always on an higher ground . viz. revelation divine . . that the infallibility of the church grounded on divine revelation and believed by a divine faith is a main ground and pillar of a catholicks faith for any other articles thereof , that are established by the sam● churches definitions , where the scriptures , or tradition apostolick are to him doubtful . of which ground and assurance of such points ( believed by catholicks from the churches infallible authority ) the protestant● faith is destitute . § . . these are the principles upon which this guide in controversies undertakes to clear this intricate question , and to free their resolution of faith from the danger of a circle ; i have but two small things to object against this way . . that it gives up the cause in dispute . . that notwithstanding it doth not avoid the main difficulties . . that it gives up the cause in dispute● which was whether the infallible testimony of the church be the necessary foundation of divine faith ? for upon occasion of the supposed necessity of this infallibility , the question was first started ; this infallibility being asserted to be necessary by t. c. and was the thing i chiefly opposed in the discourse of the resolution of faith. now this the guide in controversies freely yields to me , and consequently the main foundation of faith asserted by my adversary is destroyed : as plainly appears by the third proposition , wherein he affirms that an external infallible proponent is not necessary to divine faith. but this he doth not barely affirm , but , he saith , it is copiously proved by many learned catholicks : and to this purpose he cites cardinal lugo speaking of divine faith , who saith , that the infallibility of the church cannot be the first ground of divine faith ; because this infallible authority of the church by assistance of the holy ghost is it self an article of divine faith. and experience tells us that all children or adult persons first coming to the faith , do not apprebend much less infallibly believe , this infallible authority in the church before any other article of faith. and in the law of nature and under the law of moses , the churches proposition was not necessary in order to faith ; but the instruction of parents was sufficient in one , and the doctrine of moses and the prophets in the other , before their prophecies were received by the church . he cites estius likewise speaking of this divine and salvifical faith , that it is not material to faith what medium god makes use of to bestow this gift of faith upon men : many having believed that knew nothing of the churches infallibility . he cites layman asserting that it often comes to pass , that other articles of our faith are explicitly believed before that of the churches infallibility ; and withal this infallibility of the church , depends upon the promise of the spirit ; therefore men must first believe that there is a spirit of god and consequently the holy trinity . farther saith he , it is plain that the primitive christians did believe with divine faith , not for the authority of the church , which either was not founded yet ( when st. peter believed christ to be the son of the living god ) or had not defined any doctrines of faith. again he denies the churches authority to be the formal principle or motive of faith ; and that for this very good reason , because this infallible authority of the church is one of the things to be believed . nay he cites fa. knot himself in his reply to chillingworth affirming christians may have a true infallible divine faith , of which faith they have only a fallible proponent , nor are infallibly certain thereof , i. e. as to the proponent . i now appeal to the indifferent reader whether the main thing contended for by me , viz. that the infallible testimony of the church is not necessary in order to faith , be not here fully granted to me ? . but yet the account of faith here given is very far from clearing the chief difficulties of it , as will appear by these two things . . that this resolution of divine faith is very unsatisfactory in it self . ● . that it is liable to the absurdities which he seeks to avoid by it . . that the resolution of divine faith laid down by him is very unsatisfactory in it self : the principles of which are these . . that divine faith must rest upon divine revelation . . this divine revelation upon which faith is built is that which is first made known to the person , and from which he proceeds to other matters of faith . . this divine revelation is not one and the same to all , but to some the authority of the scriptures , to some the authority of the church , to some apostolical tradition . . divine faith must rest upon this revelation with an immediate assent to it , without enquiring further , for if there be any further process there must be so in infinitum or a circle . . that the holy ghost doth illuminate the understanding of him that believes , both as to the veracity of god and the truth of his revelation , and causes such a firm adherence of faith , as many times far exceeds that of any humane science or demonstrations . but in this way i can neither be satisfied , . what that particular divine revelation is , which this divine faith doth rest upon ? not . how this faith can equally rest in several persons upon several ways ? nor . how it can rest with an immediate assent upon any way ? nor . wherein this way differs from resolving faith into the testimony of the spirit ? § . . i cannot understand what that particular divine revelation is into which as into it● prime extrinsecal motive , faith is here resolved ? the thing enquired after is the reason of believing the truth of what god hath publickly revealed to mankind , as we say he hath done the doctrines of christianity the ultimate resolution of divine faith as to this i am told is that particular divine revelation , which is first made known to a man : i● this particular divine revelation the sam● with gods publick and general revelation o● distinct from it ? if it be the same it can offer no reason for my faith , unless the same thing may be proved by it self ; if it be different , then god makes use of particular divine revelations to men different from his publick , into which they are to resolve their faith. suppose then the question be thus put , why do you believe that christ shall come to judge the quick and the dead ? the general answer is , because god that cannot lie hath revealed it ; but then the question returns on what ground do you believe this revelation to have been from god with such a divine faith as must rest upon divine revelation ? for such you assert to be necessary . to this the guide in controversies answers , that the ultimate resolution of a christians divine faith is into that particular divine revelation first made known to him . what particular divine revelation i beseech him is that , on which i ground the divine faith of this proposition , that the doctrine of scripture is gods revelation ? for of that we enquire . it cannot be understood of the rational evidence of the truth of the divine revelation ; for that is asserted by him not to be a sufficient foundation for divine faith , which must rest upon nothing short of divine revelation : i would gladly be informed and directed by this guide in controversies , since i must believe gods revelation with a divine faith , and this divine faith must rest upon a divine revelation ; what that particular divine revelation is on which i am to believe with divine faith , the truth of gods publick and general revelation ? i have endeavoured to find out what his meaning herein is , but i confess i cannot : sometimes he seems to den● any resolution at all of this divine faith into an● further principles , and quotes layman with approbation , who saith , that the formal reason of believing what god saith is his veracity ; but that god hath revealed such thing to us , cannot be any further resolved or pr●ved by divine faith. in the next section he saith , that divine faith doth not resolve into an extrinsecal , even morally infallibl● motive thereof either as the formal cause , o● always as the applicative introductive o● condition of this divine faith. from whence it follows , that this divine faith may be where there is neither infallible nor prudential motive ; i. e. it may be , where no account at all can be given of it ; for all motives must be of one sort or other ; and yet this divine faith doth rest upon a particular divine revelation , of which since no account can be given , it is unreasonable to expect it . but i will try yet further by an instance of his own . the question put by him is , why he believes the things contained in the gospel of st. matthew , to be divinely revealed ; he answers , that he resolves his faith of the truth of those contents not into the churches saying they are true , although he believe all that true the church saith , but into divine revelation ; because god by his evangelist delivereth them for truth : again he saith , when he believes that all contained in st. matthew's gospel is true , because the church tells him i● i● so , and then believes that the church ●elleth him true , because god hath revealed ●n some part of his word , that the church in this shall not erre ; here his faith he saith , is ultimately resolved again , not into the churches authority , but the divine revela●ion concerning the church . this looks like something at first hearing , if one do not press ●oo far in the examination of it ; but being ●hroughly searched into , how profound soever it may seem , it is scarce tolerable sense upon his own principles . for it is agreed now on all hands that in the question of the resolution of faith , the enquiry is not why we believe what god reveals ; but why we believe this to be a divine revelation ; and the question is now put particularly concerning the doctrine contained in st. matthews gospel : his principles are , that this must be believed by divine faith , and that this faith must rest upon divine revelation ; i now enquire upon what particular divine revelation he doth build this act of divine faith , that st. matthew's gospel contains the word of god ? he answers , first , though he believes it to be true because the church saith it is so , yet his faith is not resolved into the churches testimony , but into divine revelation 〈◊〉 what divine revelation doth he mean ? that which is in question ? viz. that st. matthew's gospel is divine revelation : if so the● he doth not believe it because the church saith it ; but if he doth believe it because of the churches testimony , then it cannot be o● the account of gods delivering it for truth by the evangelist . for doth he believe it because the evangelist saith so or not ? if h● doth , then he doth not believe it , because the church saith it , if he doth not believe it because the evangelist saith it , then he must believe it because the church saith it , and so his faith must be resolved into the churches testimony , which if it be a divine faith ▪ must according to his own principles suppose that the churches testimony is a divine revelation , and the formal object of divine faith. the same absurdity lies in the other answer , he believe● , he saith , that all contained in st. matthew's gospel is true because the church telleth him so ; and then believes that the church tells him true , because god hath revealed in some part of his word , that the church in this shall not erre . and yet his faith is not resolved into the churches authority but the divine revelation concerning the church . this answer must be understood either of st. matthew's gospel being proved by some other part of scripture , and then i grant the circle is avoided ; but that doth not answer the present difficulty , which is concerning the ground of believing not some one part of divine revelation , but the whole : or else it must be understood of st. matthew's gospel being proved by some part of it self . and then he resolves his faith thus . he believes what st. matthew's gospel saith concerning the church , because he believes st. matthew's gospel to be true ; and believes st. matthew's gospel to be true with a divine faith , because the church tells him so . can any thing now be more plain than that , he must resolve his faith into that authority upon which he believed st. matthew's gospel to be true , which himself confesseth to be that of the church ? only if a man can be so foolish to believe first the truth of st. matthew's gospel , because the church saith it , and at the same time believe the church to say true , because st. matthew's gospel saith so , that mans faith is to be resolved into nothing but the dancing of fairies , which have put him into such a circle that he can never find the way out of . but if he mean any thing else i know not what to impute such an absurd way of proceeding to ; unless it be to a through intoxication of school divinity , which confounds all true notions and distinct conceptions of things , and makes men have such swimming brains , that all things turn round with them . § . . . but supposing i could understand what this particular divine revelation meant , into which this divine faith must be resolved , why may not one particular way serve all mankind for it ? must there be several and all equal foundations of divine faith ? i can easily satisfie my self of the reason of asserting it● but not of the reason of the thing in this way of resolving faith. the true reason of asse●ting it was the plain evidence that many persons had a true divine faith , without knowing any thing of the churches infallibility : this made some men in the church of rome confess that it was not always necessary ; but least on the other side they should seem hereby to forego the palladium of that church , they do withall say , that sometimes faith may begin there : and so run into the very same absurdities that the others do . for if one man can resolve his faith well so , why not a hundred , why not a thousand , why not all christians ? if all cannot do it without running into a circle , neither can one ; for the process of faith is alike in all . not that the same means are used to all persons ; for it is evident that men believe upon different grounds ; but what is absurd if a thousand do it , is equally absurd if but one do it . although the guide ●n controversies doth not suppose it necessary ●or men to resolve their faith into the churches infallibility ; yet he doth suppose ●hat some men may do it . well then , we will put the case that any one person doth re●olve his faith concerning gods revelation ●nto the churches infallibility as the ground of his divine faith ; i desire to be informed by this worthy guide , whether he doth not run into the same absurdities , which all would do if they proceeded that way ? i. e. whether it be any more possible for one to free himself from a circle than for all ? is not the reason assigned by canus and layman , and lugo this viz. because the churches infallibility i● one of the things to be believed as revealed by god , and therefore cannot be the ground of faith to any ? and will not this reason exclude any one person from doing it , that resolves his faith as he ought to do ? so that if this hold in any one , being drawn from the reason of the thing and not from the circumstances of persons , it must equally hold against all persons , and consequently no one person can reasonably establish his faith as to gods revelation upon the churches infallibility . § . . . i am far from understanding this way of immediate asse●●t to the divine revelation ▪ i grant the reason against proceeding furthe● to be very good , for the guide could see n● passage that way , but over rocks and precipices : and therefore finds out a shorter cut by asserting an immediate assent to the divin● revelation . but to what divine revelation doth he mean ? the authority of soripture churches infallibility , apostolical tradition , or any of these ? it is all one to me , which it is , for it is equally unreasonable , to allo● any of them . for i look upon faith a● an act of the mind , which must always have a reason moving it to assent . even in self evident propositions where the assent is most immediate , yet there is the greatest and clearest reason for it , viz. the evidence of the thing , which makes the understanding never hesitate or doubt , but yield a firm assent upon the first apprehension , and proportionable to the reason and evidence of the thing , or of the motive enclining to assent , so is the readiness and firmness of it . but to assert an assent in faith so immediate , of which no motive or reason can be assigned proportionable to it , is a thing repugnant to the nature of our reasonable faculties , and it is to make one of the noblest acts of our understandings a meer blind and bruitish assent . all that we enquire for , is a sufficient reason to move our minds to believe in the act of divine faith ; which is seen in all the acts of humane faith. for no man can reasonably believe what another saith , or that he hath said so , but he is able to give an account of both of them . and it would be very strange that in the most weighty matters of faith , on which mens eternal happiness and misery depend , they should be obliged to assent in such an immediate manner that they can have no good account to give of their divine faith. yes , ●aith the guide , an account may be given ●o make this assent appear prudent by the mo●ives of credibility : but that is not the thing we enquire for ; but a sufficient foundation for divine faith : and as to this he asserts , ●hat our faith doth immediately rest upon divine revelation without proceeding to another revelation for the ground of it . but now then can this divine faith have a divine revelation for its ground ? it may have it for its material object , which comes not under our consideration ; but only the formal object on motive of that faith as to this revelation . we will suppose the churches infallibility to be the matter believed , i demand a reason why this is to be believed ? the answer is , because god hath revealed it in his word ; there the q●estion returns what reason have you to believe that to be the word of god ? here the guide cries out , stand there ; if you proceed a step further you are lost . for if you say upon another revelation , then that upon another , and so without end . but say i , you tell me i must believe this to be gods word with a divine faith ; and this divine faith must rest upon a divine revelation as its formal cause ; assign me that , or you overthrow the nature of divine faith ; what divine revelation is there for this faith to rest upon ? none say you , but here it must stop ; if so , then it is certain by your own principles this either can be no divine faith , or else divine faith doth not always need a divine revelation . so that this way of the resolution of faith overthrows it self ; and needs no other opposition but of one part to another . § . . . it may be all this may be cleared by the assistance of the holy ghost supplying the want of another revelation , by its illuminating and confirming the mind . so the tragoedians of old call'd down the gods upon the stage , when they could extricate themselves by no other means . not that i do in the least doubt the efficiency of the divine spirit in the act and exercise of faith ; or that god by secret and unexpressible ways may strengthen and increase grace in the hearts of men , which thereby become better assured of the ●hings they believe . but the question now ●s whether our faith , as to the motive and ●eason of it can , or ought to be resolved into ●he illumination of the holy ghost ? and in ●ruth after all his turnings and windings the guide sits down at last in the grossest way of resolving divine faith into the testimony of the holy ghost . for he saith that doth ●lluminate the understanding that the prime verity cannot lie in whatever thing it reveals , and also that the particular articles of our faith are its revelations . was ever any ●hing more fully said to this purpose by the highest calvinists or enthusiasts ? have the ●isputants of the church of rome hither●o charged them with a circle in this ●esolution of faith , equal with theirs between the church and scripture ; and hath the very guide in controversies found no way to escape one whirlpool , but by falling into another ? but since i see no reason to believe this guide in controversies to be infallible , any more than the pope himself , i hope i may have leave to ask him some few questions . doth he in earnest believe that our assurance of gods veracity and the truth of his revelations do flow from the immediate illumination of the spirit of god ? i would fain know then , . why he trouble● himself about any other resolution of faith ▪ for by this way he resolves faith in all the parts of it . if you ask the first question● why you believe that to be true which god reveals ? the answer is ready , the holy ghost illuminates my mind in the belief of this ▪ if you again ask , why you believe these particular articles to be gods revelations ; the answer is already given , the same holy ghost illuminates my mind in that too . what need church-infallibility , apostolical tradition , motives of credibility , or any other way ; the work is compleatly and effectually done without the assistance of any of them ▪ . is not this to tell unbelievers that we can give them no satisfaction as to the grounds of our divine faith ? it is true , he grants something may be said for a dull kind of humane and acquisite faith , which others are capable of understanding ; but for divine faith that depends upon such secret and private illuminations , which no person can at all judge of , but he that hath them ; nor he very well , unless another revelation assures him , that these are the illuminations of gods spirit and not the deceptions of his own . especially since it is a principle in the roman church that no man can attain any absolute certainty of grace without a particular revelation from god. see then what a wilderness this guide hath led us into ! we ●re to believe that what god hath revealed ●s true , and that he hath revealed these things , ●rom the illumination of the holy ghost : ●ut we cannot certainly know that we have ●uch an illumination without another reve●ation to discover that ; and so we must run ●n without end or turn back again the same way we went , to believe illumination by ●evelation and revelation by illumination . . how he can possibly give himself any good account of his faith in this manner ? for since the fundamental principle of faith ●s the veracity of god , and the belief of gods veracity is here attributed to the illumination of the holy ghost ; we may see how excellent a guide this is , that thus stumbles in a plain way , or must of necessity go forward and backward . for i desire him to satisfie me according to this resolution of faith , in this question ; why he doth believe whatsoever god saith is true ? his answer is , because the holy ghost by his inward illumination assured me so ; but then i ask again , why he is assured of the truth of what the holy ghost enlightens him ? his answer must be if he speaks at all to the purpose , because the holy ghost is god and cannot speak any thing but truth . so that the veracity of god is proved by the spirits illumination , and the spirits illumination by go● veracity . but there is yet another principl● which faith stands upon , which is , that go● hath revealed the things we believe ; he● again i ask why he believes these articles a● gods revelations , his answer is , the hol● ghost by enlightening my mind hath assured me of it . but then i ask how he is su● with a divine faith , which in this case is necessary that there is a holy ghost and tha● this is the illumination of the holy ghost● here he must return again to divine revelation , wherein the promise of the holy ghos● is made . judge now , reader , whether thi● be not an admirable guide in controversies and whether he hath not given a very satisfactory account of the resolution of faith ? § . . besides that this way is thus unsatisfactory in it self , i have this further charge against it , that other ways are liable only to the single absurdities of their own particula● opinions ; but this blind guide hoping to clea● himself of one great absurdity , hath not only run into it the very way he seeks to escape it , but into many more besides . if there be any thing absurd in the calvinists resolution of faith he hath taken in that ; if there be any thing absurd in resolving faith by the infallibility of the church he is liable to ●hat too ; because though he doth not think ●t necessary he allows it to be good ; and last of all that which he looks upon as the advantage of their faith above ours plungeth him unavoidably in as bad a circle as may ●e . and that is , that the infallibility of the church being once believed by a divine faith from the revelation of it in scripture it is a ground of faith to him in all controversies that arise concerning the sense of scripture ; i am not now to examine the falseness of the pretence , ( which hath been done already and may be more afterwards ) that which at present i am to shew , is , that it is impossible for him in his resolution of faith concerning the sense of scripture to avoid the circle . let us see how he attempts it , suppose i be asked , saith he , concerning some article of faith defined by the church , though the same article doth not appear to me clearly delivered in the scriptures , why with a divine faith i believe it to be divine revelation ? i answer , because the church which is revealed by the scriptures to be perpetually assisted by the holy ghost , and to be infallible for ever in matters delivered by her , hath delivered it to me as such . if again why with a divine faith i believe these scriptures in general or such a sense of those texts in particular , which are pretended to reveal the churches infallibility to be divine revelation ? i answer as before , because apostolical tradition hath delivered them to be so : which apostolical tradition related or conveyed to me by the churc● i believe with a divine faith by the interna● operation of the holy spirit , without havi●● at all any further divine revelation , fro● which i should believe this revelation to b● divine . this is the utmost progress of divine faith with him . i know not how muc● faith there may be in this way , i am su● there is not the least shadow of reason . fo● if a stop be made at last by the internal op●ration of the holy spirit , what need so muc● ado to come thither ? might not the sam● answer have served as well to the first an● second question as to the third ? when yo● were asked why with a divine faith you b●lieve such a sense of scripture to be divin● revelation ? might not you have hindred a● further proceeding by saying , i believe i● with a divine faith by the internal operatio● of the holy spirit , without having at all an● further divine revelation . but if you though it necessary to assign another divine revelation for the foundation of that faith , by th● churches infallibility , why will not the sam● reason hold for the last act ? which must hav● as good a foundation as the other , or els● how comes it to be a divine faith as well as ●he other ? but the subtilty of all this is , ●ou have it seems by your office of guide ●he opening of the gate , and you hold it ●pen so long as to let through all your friends , ●or infallibility and tradition must by any means be let through , and when these are ●assed , down falls the gate in so rude a man●er as is enough to cripple any other that endeavours to get passage . can any man pos●ibly assign a reason , why the operation of the spirit should not have as great force , before the churches infallibility be let in ? but this it is to be a guide in controversies , ●o direct infallibility , tradition and the ho●y ghost to know their distance and to keep ●heir due places ; and it is a great favour ●hat the holy spirit is allowed to bring up the rear and to make all sure , but by no means to offer to go before infallibility or tradition . for these are capable of doing better service afterwards than the holy ghost is ever like to do them ; the greatest use of it being to make good a pass , that nothing follow to disturb the march of infallibility and tradition . but if i may be so bold once more to presume to ask this wonderful guide ; when the dispute is about the sense of scripture , why he doth believe such a particular sense which doth not appear clearly to him in scriptures to be the infallibl● sense of it , or to be divine revelation ? hi● answer is , because the church which is revealed in scriptures to be infallible hath delive●ed this to him as the sense of it . very well this is an answer i understand , though i se● no reason for it . but i proceed , why d● you believe this infallibility to be the sens● of those places which speak of the church since to me they are far from appearing t● be clearly delivered in those scriptures remember you believe this with divin● faith , and this divine faith must have d●vine revelation ; the question then is u● on what divine revelation do you believ● the infallibility of the church to be pr●mised in scripture ? he answers , upon ap●stolical tradition . is this apostolical tradition the same with the scriptures or different from it ? if the same what greate clearness can there be in this than in th● scriptures ? if different , what divine revelation is your faith of the infallibility o● that built upon ? he ingenuously consesse● none at all , for then there must be a process in infinitum or a circle . and yet hi● principle is that divine revelation is nece●sary to divine faith ; but there can be non● here by his own consession , without process in insinitum or a circle ; which i● to acknowledge the absurdity of his own way as far as a man can desire . well , but how comes this apostolical tradition to be known to him ? by the church he saith ; but may the church be deceived in delivering apostolical traditions ? no , he saith , she is infallible : but do you believe her infallible with divine faith ? yes , he saith that must be done : then at last there must be a divine revelation again for this infallibility , and so the circle returns . no , he saith , at last , he believes the churches testimony infallible only with a humane and acquisite faith upon prudential motives ; but he believes the apostolical tradition related by the church with a divine faith . was there ever such a perplexed guide in controversies ? the infallibility of the church is sometimes to be believed with a divine faith and sometimes not ; and yet when it is not to be believed with a divine faith it is the foundation of the divine faith of apostolical tradition ; for he assigns no other ground or reason for it besides the infallible testimony of the church . but this infallibility he saith may be known two ways by promises of scripture , or prudential motives ; not to dispute now the possibility of proving the churches infallibility by prudential motives ; ( which i shall do at large afterwards ) the thing i now enquire after is , since the apostolical tradition must be believed by divine faith , and the belief of it comes by the churches infallibility ; whether any other infallibility can secure such a faith besides the infallibility by promise ; for the infallibility asserted being a security from error by divine assistance , and that assistance only supposed to be promised in scripture , there can be no other infallibility here understood but that ; which infallibility by his own assertion must be believed by divine faith , which divine faith must rest upon divine revelation ; and so he believes the sense of scripture because of the churches infallibility , and the churches infallibility by apostolical tradition , and apostolical tradition by the churches infallibility , and the churches infallibility by the sense of scripture . see now what an admirable guide in controversies we have met with ! and with what skill and dexterity he hath escaped the circle . and so i take my leave of this guide , finding nothing in him further material about infallibility , which i have not answered in the foregoing discourse . the considerato● urging so much the very same things , and frequently in the same words , that i now think he either was the same person , or made very bold with him . chap. ii. the principles of e. w. about the certainty of divine faith laid down and considered . § . . having met with so little satisfaction from the guide in controversies , i now betake my self to the rule ; no fancies , toys , trifles , or fallible glosses , i assure you , for those e. w. cries out upon almost in every page of his worthy work ; but reason and religion , or the certain rule of faith. what can any man desire more ? unless it be to see mr. stillingfleet joyned in the title-page with atheists , heathens , jews , turks and all sectaries . and that he might own a greater obligation to him , than all that rabble ; he dispatches them all , after a fashion , in . pages , and spends above , upon him . o what a pestilent heretick is this stillingfleet ! that deserves so many lashes beyond atheists , heathens ; jews or turks ! if he had been any one of those , he might have been gently used , for never were they fairlier dealt with by any man that undertook them . but he is not so much their friend to thank him for this kind usage : and e. w. thinks he will have enough to do to defend himself . i confess i think so too , if either of his books against me , were to be thrown at my head ; for they are very thick and as heavy as is possible . and to my great comfort , i never yet saw two such bulky books , whose substance might be brought into a less compass ; for setting aside tautologies and tedious repetitions , frequent excursions and impertinent digressions the pith and marrow of both his books lies in this one word infallibility . but it is time to fall to my business , for fear of more advertisements ; and infallibility being the main design of his books , that shall be the subject of my present debate with him . and because this e. w. is a great pretender to principles ; the method i shall proceed in shall be first to consider his principles , and then to defend my own . for which i shall chiefly make use of his last book , it being in effect but another edition of his former , the other as i suppose being disposed of to better purposes than to be read ; for i never heard of one person in england that read it over . however , what there is material in it , different from the last , as to the present controversie , i shall upon occasion take notice of . the two main principles he builds upon are these . . that without an infallible church , there can be no certainty of faith. . that the roman-catholick church is this infallible church . if he can prove these two , he shall not need any more to establish their religion , or to overthrow ours . and i will say that for his praise that he hath brought the controversie into a narrow compass ; for he confesses it is endless to dispute out of scripture and fathers , since witty men by their fall●ble , glosses can turn and winde them which way they please , but there is nothing so stiff and inflexible as a standing infallible oracle in the church , which being once believed all controversie is at an end . but we may as soon hope to see all other controversies ended by dry blows , as this principle proved to the satisfaction of any reasonable man. the main proofs for the necessity of the churches infallibility , which he insists upon are these . . that there can be no divine faith without it . . there can be no certainty as to the canon , or edition , or sense of scripture . . there can be as little certainty as to the sense of the fathers or the primitive church . . that there can be no divine faith without it . this he frequently insists upon in both his books ; and with so much vehemency , as to make the deniers of infallibility to overthrow all faith and religion . which being a charge of the highest nature , ought to be made good by the clearest evidence . whether that which e. w. produces , be so i shall leave any one to judge , when i have given an account of his principles as to this matter . in his first book called protestancy without principles , he begins with this subject ; and lays down these assertions , upon which all his discourse is built . . that gods infallible revelation requires an infallible assent of faith ; or an infallible verity revealed to us forcibly requires an answerable and correspondent infallible assent of faith in us : the contrary he calls wild doctrine ; this subjective infallibility , as he calls it , he offers very wisely to prove from those places of scripture , which speak of the assurance which christians had of the truth of their religion . . this infallible assent of faith doth require infallible teachers ; for infallible believers and infallible teachers are correlatives . and in the second chapter , he goes about to prove it , because , if christs infallible doctrine be only fallibly taught , no man hath certainty what it is ; and seeing what is fallible may be false , christs doctrine may not be taught at all ; which is infallible and cannot be false ; and he that should abjure this fallible doctrine , doth not deny therein christs doctrine , and cannot be upon that account an heretick . but to make faith infallible , he asserts , that every preacher sent by the infallible church , as a member conjoyned with it , is infallible in his teaching : and on the contrary , whosoever renounces an infallible society cannot teach with certainty christs infallible doctrine . from whence he saith , follows an utter ruine of christian religion . in his third chapter he further proves , that if the church were fallible in her teaching , god would oblige us to believe a falsity ; because god commands men to hear the church , and if the church may erre , then men are obliged to believe a false doctrine taught by her . and all other means short of this infallibility would be insufficient for preserving christian religion in the world . in the fourth chapter he comes to a particular consideration of divine faith , and from thence proves the necessity of infallibility . faith , saith he , requires two things essentially , an object which is gods revelation , and a proposition of this object ; by vertue of which the elicit act of faith follows in a believer , and intellectually lays as it were hold , both o● gods revelation and the thing revealed . now to prove the necessity of such an infallible proposition in order to divine faith , ho● lays down some abstruse propositions . . that gods infallible revelation avail● nothing in order to faith , unless christian● by their faith lay hold on the certainly thereof , or owne it as infallible and the assured ground of their assent . . that the measure and degrees of certitude in the assent are according to those which the proponent gives to the revelation . if he teaches doubtfully , the assent is doubtful , if probably , the assent is probable , is infallibly , the assent is infallible : the reason which he gives of this , is , because an object revealed receives its light from the proposal , as an object of sight doth from the light of the air . as long therefore , saith he , as the infallibility of a revelation stands remote from me , for want of an undoubted application made by an infallible proponent , it can no more transfuse certainty into faith , than fire at a great distance warm ; that is , no more than if it were not certain in it self , or not at all in being . . from hence he saith , it follows that protestants can only doubtfully guess at what they are to believe , and consequently never yet had nor can have divine , certain and infallible faith. because they cannot ●ropose faith infallibly . hence he proceeds chapter fifth and sixth , to disprove moral cer●ainty , as insufficient in order to faith ; and destroying , as he saith , the very being and ●ssence of divine and supernatural faith ; because the sole and adequate object of divine and supernatural faith is gods infinite veracity actually speaking to us ; but this infinite veracity , ( when it is duly proposed ) , transsuseth more certainty into the elicit act of faith , than any moral certainty derived ●rom inferiour motives can have . for all moral certainty is at least capable of falsity and may deceive us : gods infallible veracity cannot be false nor deceive if faith rest upon that motive , and if it rest not there , it is no faith at all . nay he asserts , that supernatural faith is more certain and infallible , than all the metaphysical sciences which nature can give us ; for which he gives this plain reason , because the infinite veracity of god which only supporteth faith with greater force , energy , and necessity transfuseth into it , a supereminent insallibility , supereminent , he saith , and above all the certainty , which the principles of natur● can afford . this is the substance of e. w● principles of faith in his first book : which is somewhat more enlarged in the second in one chapter he designs to prove if the roman church be not infallible , there is no tru● faith in the world , the reason of which in his own easie terms is this , for the meer possibility of deceiving christians in one article impossibilitates the belief of all she proposeth . in another chapter , that she is not only infallible , but that the adversaries of her infallibility destroy the very essence of christian religion . and in the next , that divine faith in this present state of things necessarily requires a church infallible , because the infallibility of faith necessarily requires not only an infallible revelation , but a● infallible proponent . ruine one or the other infallibility , faith can be no more but an uncertain assent and consequently can be no faith at all ; this reason he diversifies into many shapes , and represents it in different words , but it comes in at every turn . so in the next chapter he proves the catholick church gods infallible oracle , because infallibility once taken away , no man can have assurance so much as of one christian verity ; the reason is , no man can be assured of what is fallibly taught : because what is so taught , may by vertue of the proposition be ●alse , but a doctrine so far removed from in●allible certainly , for want of a due application of its infallibility , comes not near to the doctrine of christ and his apostles , which was applied , taught and proposed infallibly : and in the same chapter he saith , it is utterly impossible , that an infallible verity as revealed , though fallibly proposed should have influence upon faith , or work in believers a most firm assent . not long after , he asserts , that infallibility being taken away , no man can tell , but that christian religion is a fiction ; for these are his words . a feigned and fallible religion are near co●sin germans . the one is a fiction , the other at least may be so , and for ought any man can know is no better : and in the same chapter he saith , that without infallibility religion is meer scepticism : because all other means , infallibility being set aside , may be equally pleaded by hereticks , ( as arians and such like , ) as by any other . to the same purpose in the following chapter , where he proposes that which he calls the last proof of the churches infallibility , which is still the very same over and over ; ( for he out-does the cook of brundusium in serving up the the same meat in several dresses ) viz. that the denyal of it overthrows christian religion ; be pleased to observe his concise way o● reasoning . if the infallibility of reveale● doctrine be lost as it were in the way between god and us , if the revelation appear not as it is in it self infallible , whe● we assent to it by faith , that is , if it be no● infallibly conveyed and applied to all by a●●nerring proponent , as it subsists in its first cause , infinitely infallible , faith perishes , w● are cast upon pure uncertainties , and ma● justly doubt whether such a doctrine , separated from that other perfection of infallibility be really true or no ? in his third di●course we meet with a convincing argumen● , as he calls it , for infallibility . if all authority imaginable , whereupon faith can depend , conveyed or delivered these verities both as infallible truths and infallibly , and i assent to the doctrine with a belief not infallible , but only morally certain , i leave by my fallible moral assent the true infallible teaching and conveying oracles of christian doctrine , and believe upon a meer phansied authority , which was never impowered to convey gods verities to any . before i come to examine these things it will be necessary to lay down his notion of faith in his own terms , viz. that it essentially trends obsecurely to its own object ; ( no matter for understanding it , but the words found well together ) and by this saith we l●y hold upon the most supream and all comprehending infallibility proper to god alone . but withal we are to take notice of a twofold certitude in faith ; the one a certitude of infallibility arising from the supernatural principles which concur to the very act of belief , and these being not liable to error can never operate , but when the divine revelation really is , and implies not only the meer truth of the act , but moreover an infallible determination to truth : the other a certitude of adhesion not grounded on evidence , but upon most prudent motives proposed to reason , ( which clearly discover'd ) the will by her ●pious affection commands and determines the intellectual faculties to assent indubitably . after all which he concludes , that the plain and easie resolution of faith , is into gods veracity as speaking to men by an infallible church . thus i have laid together so many parcels of e. w's . rambling discourse , as were necessary in order to the examination of it . and indeed i cannot compare his reasoning to any thing better than his own pretty notion of faith , for just as he saith , faith essentially tends obscurely to its object , so his principles do to his conclusion . but that i may proceed with the greater clearness , i must premise these two things ; . § . . that the question is not concerning the necessity of any internal assistance o● divine grace , but of an external insallibl● proponent in order to divine faith. so tha● whatever certainty of saith is derived from the spirit of god , is no ways pertinent to ou● present debate . i do not deny that a trul● divine faith , doth suppose a divine and super natural assistance ; i do not deny , that th● holy ghost may confirm mens minds to suc● a degree of certainty , which may exceed th● rational grounds they are able to give t● others of their faith . but i say all this i● very far from the purpose . for i had expresly laid down this caution before , that o● question in the resolution of faith , did no● relate to the workings of the divine spirit o● our minds of which no satisfactory accoun● can be given to others ; but to the externa● motives and grounds of faith , whether the● must be infallible or not ? to what purpos● is it then , for e. w. to talk of a certitud● of infallibility , as he calls it , arising from the supernatural principles which concur t● the very act of belief , and these not liable t● error , can never operate , but when the divine revelation really is ? granting all thi● to be true ; yet what doth this prove , concerning the necessity of an external infallible proponent such as the church is ? all that ca● hence follow is that those whom the spirit of god enables to believe , cannot believe a falshood ; but what then ? hath he proved that the supernatural principles of faith do never operate , but where the church first infal●ibly proposes ? no , this he never attempts , either not understanding what was fit to be proved , or knowing it impossible to be done . but if the infallible certainty of faith doth depend upon inward illumination and divine concurrence ; the infallibility of faith may be had without an external infallible proponent . and so all his first principles signify nothing to his purpose , for supposing an infallible assent of faith necessary to an infallible revelation ; yet that doth not prove the necessity of infallible teachers , unless it can be had no other way . but here he tells us , that infallible certainty is derived from supernatural principles concurring to the act of faith ; which he elsewhere calls , the interior illustration of grace imparted to a soul , which he saith , is wholly necessary to make faith certain ; and after saith , we come to an absolute certainty of faith , upon tbis interiour sacred language of god , or his internal illumination ; the necessity of which he proves from scripture and fathers . but when he hath done all , he hath most effectually confuted himself ; for if this inward illumination , can , as he saith , supply the inefficacy of external motives ; how comes the infallibility of an external proponent to be necessary in order to that certainty of faith which may be obtained , by divin● grace making up what is wanting in the outward motives ? did ever any man shew more kindness to his adversary in helping him with weapons to destroy himself than this e. w. doth ? when after a most tedious endeavour to prove the necessity of an externa● infallible proponent in order to the certainty of faith ; he sets down these words , now what we assert in this particular , is , that the infallible certainty of faith comes from th● interior illumination , as it more lively set● forth the formal object assented to , or help● to a clearer proposal of the divine mysteries . doth the infallible certainty of faith indeed come from this interior illumination ? what then becomes of the necessity of an infallible church ? we often hear of the great assistance the jesuits have in writing their books ; i should rather have thought some enemy of e. w's . had put in these things to overthrow all he had spent so many impertinent words about before . but lest such expressions should be thought to have dropt from him unawares , observe with what care he sums up the whole progress of faith in this state. first , a natural proposition of the mysteries precedes ; this begets a natural apprehension of their credibility ; after some consideration there may arise an imperfect judgement of credibility : but should the will offer as yet to incline the mind to assent only upon what appears hitherto , it could not move to a faith which is an assent super omnia or most certain . therefore the illustration , or powerful invitation of grace ( by which as i said the object appears another way and more clearly ) is infused , whereof the soul is recipient . the will now after other preparatives thus strengthned a new commands boldly the understanding to assert upon the safest principles imaginable , viz. upon gods infallible revelation accompanied with his own divine light , which makes faith to grow higher in certainty , than all the reason or knowledge in this life can arise to . for as s. thomas observes , humane knowledge derives its certitude from mans natural reason which may err , but faith hath its infallibility , ex lumine divinae scientiae , from the light of divine wisdom which cannot deceive , and therefore is most certain . who , upon reading these words , would not have thought this e. w. more conversant in calvins institutions , than aquinas his sums ? for in all this resolution of faith , how can a man edge in the necessity of an infallible church in order to the certainty of faith ? i will not say e. w. was wholly inapprehensive of this snare he had brought himself into , but he takes the worst way imaginable to get out of it . for to shew the difference between this way and that of hereticks , he makes the exterior humane proposition of divine revelation necessarily preceding the true light of faith ; which canno● be made but by one that makes the proposition good by a miracle , or some supernatural wonder ; but no protestant is able to do thus much . and is any papist think we ? i would withal my heart see some of the miracles wrought by their preachers to convince me ; i profess the greatest readiness of mind to be perswaded by them , in case they do but work such miracles as christ and his apostles did . but of this subject at large afterwards . at present it may suffice to take notice . . that no proposition of faith is supposed sufficient by e. w. but where the proponent doth work miracles : and therefore we may safely question the churches proposition till we see such miracles wrought by her , as were by christ and his apostles . for thus , saith he , christ our lord sent by his eternal father , thus the apostles sent by christ and the church ever since ( all shewing wonders above the force of nature ) proved their mission ; and withal evinced that god only impowred them to teach as they did . and because the poor protestant doth not pretend to miracles , therefore the light he pretends to is a meer ignis fatuus vain and void of all reality . i must say that of my adversary , that he puts the controversie upon the fairest issue that can be desired . for if their church work such miracles as christ and his apostles did to attest their divine commission , the evidence from thence to believe her infallibility ought to over rule the opinions of such who say she hath erred ; in case the doctrine attested by christ and his apostles and that of the roman church do not directly contradict each other . . although this exterior proponent prove himself so commissioned yet by the progress of faith laid down by e. w. this is not enough to beget an infallible certainty of faith. for , he saith , after the exteriour proposition only a natural apprehension of their credibility succeeds ; then a judgement of credibility , then the inclination of the will ; but yet no infallible certainty till the illustration of divine grace comes . so that it evidently follows according to e. w. that an infallible proponent cannot beget an infallible assent of faith ; but that doth arise from the inward illumination of the mind by the holy ghost . which i have already shewed doth lay men open to all the absurditie● the highest calvinists were charged with in resolving faith ; and is withal impertinent to our dispute ; which relates to the necessity of an external infallible proponent in order to the certainty of faith. but surely the jesui● are not so berest of all their subtilty to comply with their greatest adversaries without some advantage to be gained by it . yes , e. w. will shake hands with some old enemies , the better to assault some later protestants , who seem to attribute , he saith , no other certainty to the very act of faith , than what is moral ; which doctrine , he saith , if it be defensible it 's impossible to declare , how faith it self or the illustration previous , can proceed from the holy ghost . for did the spirit of god work with a soul , when it believes , the certainty of faith , would without all doubt , go beyond that assurance , which is only humane , moral and fallible . i think that i escape well , that e. w. hath not transcribed a great part of bradwardin de causâ dei against me ; for i plainly see , he takes me for an absolute free willer , and a denier of the grace of god. it is true indeed , i set aside the consideration of divine grace in this matter , but i assure him , not that i questioned the truth or necessity of it ; but because it was not pertinent to ●his business . for to what purpose should we argue about that which can only serve for ●he satisfaction of those which have it ? and ●eaves men entangled in the same difficulties they object to others ? but the question was plainly put by me concerning the outward inducements to faith ; viz. whether an infallible testimony of the church were necessary in order to it ? or whether a certainty short of that , which i called moral , were sufficient for divine faith ? not opposing this moral certainty to the concurrence of divine grace , but to an external infallible proponent . i took it then for granted on both sides , that the grace of faith doth not come meerly from our selves , but that it is the gift of god , that whereever god doth immediately concur he doth direct the mind to the belief of what is certainly true , that there might be unaccountable ways , whereby an inward certainty might be produced , and so firm an adherence to the truth believed , which all the arguments and torments in the world could never shake , of which the primitive martyrs were undeniable instances ; but this internal perswasion could be made no matter of debate , nor any argument to convince another , any further than the effects of it did manifest that it came from god : yet withal i did not question , but faith being an act of the mind of man which is rational and discursive , had sufficient grounds to proceed upon , and such which without any absurdity might justifie mens belief to any prudent or considerative men , and to the severest enquiries of a mans own mind . now concerning these grounds the question was put by me ; taking in then the efficiency o● divine grace , this is the true state of the controversie , whether the spirit of god may not by moral arguments work in mens minds such a certain assent of faith , as the scripture requires for salvation ? or whether in order thereto , an infallible testimony of the church be necessary ? but because the inserting the operation of the holy ghost doth rather perplex the controversie , than explain it ; since this was granted on both sides , i thought it better to leave it out and to manage the dispute as it ought to be only concerning the necessity of an infallible testimony of the church , which is asserted by my adversaries , and denied by me . . the question is not , concerning that foundation of faith whereby we believe what god saith to be true ; but that , whereby we believe this to be revealed by god. for those two propositions must be supposed to any particular act of faith , viz. that whatever god saith is true : and that god hath said this ●articular thing which i am bound to believe . concerning the first of these there is no dispute between us , for gods veracity founded ●pon ●his infinite wisdom and goodness is agreed to be the ultimate reason of our assent ●o whatsoever god reveals . only e. w. to ●phold the supernatural certainty of faith will not have the veracity of god to be the foundation of faith , as it is known by natural reason ; for if it were , saith he , faith would at last be resolved into one natural ●rinciple , thus , i believe god to be the high●st verity imaginable , not because he saith so , ●ut because i know this great truth scienti●ically . now , saith he , no science gives the ●ast or least degree of intrinsick certitude to ●aith . this is profound reasoning : but which ● dare say , no faith can be built upon . for ●ither i must be convinced of gods veracity ●y natural reason , from the consideration of ●he divine nature and attributes , or by re●elation from god ; but if by gods revela●ion , then see what an excellent way this scholastick divine hath found for resolving faith as to this principle ( for as it is a mat●er revealed it is an immediate object of ●aith ) if you then ask him why he believes any thing to be true which is revealed by god , his answer is , because he believes gods supream verity , or that he neither can nor wi● deceive : but if you ask him again why h● believes this veracity of god , he answers because god hath revealed it . and is n● this a likely man to escape circles , th● makes them where any common understanding would avoid them ? but besides , supposing god had never discovered his own veracity in scripture , i would fain know of e. ● . whether there could have been any suc● thing as divine faith or no ? if there coul● then this principle of gods veracity mu● have been the foundation of divine faith ● known by natural reason . and supposin● gods veracity not to be embraced antecedently to a divine revelation , it is impossible to suppose there should be any argumen● sufficient to perswade me to believe any divine revelation . for the greatest miracle cannot convince me of gods truth though they may of his power ; and the● may perswade me to believe that god se● such men who work miracles , but they canno● perswade me to believe that all they say is true . for if god can deceive men , he may imploy men as his messengers and deceive the world by them : and if this opinion be rooted in a mans mind it is impossible he should yield a firm assent to any thing because it is revealed by god. but e. w. saith divines say so as he doth . i suppose he means school divines and then i grant they do and a great ●any silly things besides , wrapt up under the ●ame of subtilties . if any one hath a mind ●o try the truth of what i say , he need do no more than read their unintelligible subtilties ●bout the nature and resolution of faith : which cardinal lugo himself complains of ; and saith they make the doctrine of the schools ●ard and unintelligible ; and in this particu●ar of believing gods veracity on the account of divine revelation , he saith , it carries men into an inexplicable circle . suarez finding no better way to clear this difficulty ●uns to a mystery in it ; and makes it a great part of the mysteriousness of faith , that although it doth not clearly see its object nor the things revealed , yet it receives it by its own light ; and this act of faith , he saith is wholy supernatural , he might have said , unintelligible . but he gives an admirable reason for it , which is ; that this intrinsecally follows from the nature of a divine testimony , as it is altogether infallible , and can oblige to believe those things which god speaks , as infallible , for in speaking any thing he thereby declares his own veracity in what he affirms ; for by this means h● induces men to believe the truth of what he saith and consequently his own veracity ; a man being obliged to believe the testimony infallible , and therefor● from the intrinsecal nature of such an act o● faith and such an object , it follows that th● same testimony which suffices for the beli●● of the thing revealed , will likewise suffice t● believe gods infallible veracity in revealing . this reason i grant is very well accommodated to the mysteriousness of faith ; but i do not know how it would satisfie any man that should doubt of gods veracity in all his revelations : which ought to be the more considered since in the foregoing section , he names some of their own writers , who assert that there is no intrinsecal evil in a falsity , and therefore god may is he pleases , reveal one so as to oblige manking to believe it . i would willingly know then how the obligation on our parts to believe what god saith , can satisfie any man of the infallible veracity of the revealer ? for all that there is in this reason , is , that god cannot oblige men to believe a falsity , which it seems , some of their own schoolmen would not yield to . but it is not enough , that god hath declared he never will do it ? no : suarez himself plainly refutes that by saying , that no man can be certain that god doth not make use of his absolute power in those declarations : and if he can tell a lie , he may not perform his own promise , and therefore gods ordinary power cannot serve the turn , since by his absolute power he can act against it . cardinal lugo , although he saw all the reason in the world to reject the former opinion of suarez , yet he asserts , that the assent to gods veracity must be supernatural and elicited from the habit of infused faith : which is not easie to understand , since they all make this supernatural infused faith , to be an obscure inevident assent , and himself grants this to be an evident assent from natural reason : but how the same assent should be evident and inevident , is a question fit to be debated among the schoolmen . § . . but all this perplexity and confusion among men of wit and subtilty arises from their false notion of divine and supernatural faith , which as e. w. most scholastically speaks , essentially tending obscurely to its object , ( like a blind man running at tilt ) it makes them so much afraid of the least crevise of light or evidence , lest the meritoriousness of it be utterly destroyed . for it infinitely obliges god in their opinion to believe without evidence . therefore though a humane and acquisite faith , such as hereticks may have , may be grounded on substantial reason ; yet this supernatural and meritorious faith , much like a mole , works without light , and expects the more wages for working in the dark . i confess this essentia● obscurity of faith suits very well with thei● discourses about it ; which as e. w. speaks seems to have transfused its obscurity int● their writings concerning it . but for us , t● whom they will only allow a humane faith i wish they would afford a little more evidence for what they say ; and not overthrow the fundamental ground of all certainty o● faith , by deriving the perswasion of it from divine revelation , and not from the natura● conceptions we have of god. but i canno● but commend the ingenuity of one of thei● late school-men , who yields that the ver●city of god as it is the foundation of fait● must be known by natural light ; and to the objection , that divine faith must then be resolved into a natural assent ; he answers . that natural notices may be an inadaequate formal object of faith . . that fait● properly goes not beyond a testimony ; th● other being rather an act of knowledge tha● faith . it is all one to me , so the thing be granted , by what name men call it ; that which i aim at is , that the veracity of god which is the foundation of our assent to what god reveals , must be received antecedently to divine revelation . and so the principles of natural religion must be supposed true , before it is possible for us to judge of revealed religion ; and among those principles we ●ust allow of the veracity of god , without which we cannot imagine any firm assent to ●e given to divine revelation : which is ●hat i understand by the name of faith. wherein a divine testimony being implyed , ●hat assent which i give to any thing as true ●pon the account thereof may be called di●ine faith ; as that which i give to the truth of a thing not upon knowledge , or experience , but the credit of another person , is ●ustly called humane faith , i. e. when it goes ●o farther than meer humane testimony , but ●f that humane testimony at last leads me to ●hat which is divine , then the faith must receive its denomination from that which it ●ests upon . as suppose some persons in persia at the time of our saviours being in judaea , had been made acquainted with the doctrine which he preached and the holiness of his life , while these persons received all only upon the credit of their friends , we may call this a humane faith ; but if they were fully satisfied afterwards of the mighty works which were done by him to attest his divine commission on which account they believe him to be the true messias , their faith might now more properly be called a divine faith , because it fixeth it self upon an immediate testimony of god. but then we are to consider , . that there is no sixed and determinat● sense of a divine faith ; it being no term● used in scripture , but taken up by men to express thereby the difference between the assent we give to the word of god , and to the testimony of men . but then this faith may be called divine either as it relates to the material object , or the formal object , or the divine effects of faith ; that faith may be said to be divine in one sense , which may not b● in another . for a man may believe tha● which god reveals and upon the account u● his testimony , and yet that faith may neve● operate effectually ; and so be no effect o● divine grace upon the mind of man. therefore one of the great mistakes of the schoolmen in this matter , hath been the making the belief upon a divine testimony , to be th● act of divine and supernatural faith , which the devils and judas might have ; and ex●luding faith built upon fallible grounds from being divine , which yet might effectually lead men to the obedience of faith , and consequently was truly more divine than the other . . the same faith in several respects may be called both humane and divine . human● as it is first grounded upon the testimony of men , and divine , as it finally rests upon the testimony of god. and in the present condition of mankind , it is not reasonable to suppose , that any faith should now immediately rest upon the divine revelation , without some rational evidence antecedent to it . for the thing to be believed being the testimony which god gave at the distance of above one thousand six hundred years , we must either suppose an immediate revelation of it , or it must be conveyed to them by the credit of others . which according to this notion can beget only a humane faith , for to resolve the belief of one divine testimony into another is to proceed without end ; but this humane faith , if it be so called , satisfying a mans mind , concerning the testimony which god gave , and thereupon assenting to what was delivered upon that testimony , this faith proceeding in the same way of rational evidence , becomes a divine faith by resting upon the testimony which god gave to those who declared his will. . the faith whereby we must first embrace a divine revelation cannot in this sense be called a divine faith , i. e. as divine faith doth rely upon a divine testimony . for that faith is built upon those two foundations , viz. that whatever god saith is true , and that this is his revelation : now neither of these two can be entertained at first o● the account of a divine testimony , th● first i have shewed already cannot be withou● a circle , neithe● can the second , for still th● question will return on what account you believe that testimony . so that although thi● be commonly cal●ed an act of divine faith yet if faith be taken in this strict sense fo● believing upon a divine testimony , we must find out some other name for this assent ; no● thereby to take off from the certainty or excellency of it ; but to prevent that confusion which the not observing these things hat● caused in these controversies . and if th● terms of divine , supernatural , infallible ▪ obscure , and inevident were banished th● schools , the school-men themselves would be forced to speak sense in these matters . and it would be a pleasant sight to see how pitifully e. w's . discourses would look without them . for the main force of all he saith , lies in the misapplying those terms , and th● rattling noise they make , is apt to keep in awe a vulgar understanding , especially that hath been bred up with some more than ordinary reverence to these astonishing terms . § . . these things were necessary to be premised before we could come to the true state of the question ; which we now plainly see doth not relate to that assent whereby we believe whatever god saith to be true ; but to that , whereby we believe this particular revelation contained in the scriptures to be from god ? and so the controversie is brought to this issue , whether in order to the certainty of our faith concerning gods revelation an infallible testimony of the church be necessary ? which he affirms , and i deny . for in order to the certainty of faith , we have already seen , he frequently asserts the necessity of an infallible oracle ; and makes all degrees of certainty short of infallibility insufficient for divine faith. but that we may the better understand his opinion , we must take notice of his own explications of it , and the distinctions he thinks necessary for that end . . he distinguisheth between the judgement of credibility necessary to faith , and the act of faith it self ; and the resolution of these two though they have a due subordination to each other , yet depend upon quite different principles : the judgement of credibility , whereby the will moves and commands the intellectual faculty to elicit faith , relies not upon that object which finally terminates faith it self , but upon extrinsecal motives which perswade and powerfully induce to believe super omnia . . he distinguisheth between the nature o● science and faith ; science is worth nothing unless it prove , and faith purely considered as faith , ( these words he desires may be well marked ) is worthless if it prove . for faith reasons not , nor asks how these mysteries can be , but simply believes : o● as he expresseth it in his former book ; fait● solely relies on gods revealed testimony , without the mixture of reason for its motive . and here he asserts , that there is a more firm adhesion to the infallibility of that divine testimony for which we believe , than the extrinsecal motives inducing to believ● either do or can draw from us . . he distinguisheth between the humane and divine authority of the church ; the humane authority , being as such fallible is not sufficient to ground divine faith . but the first act of faith whereby every one believes the church to be gods oracle , is built upon her infallible divine authority manifested by miracles and other signal marks of truth . by the help of these distinctions we may better understand his resolution of faith , which he delivers in this manner . demanded why we believe the mystery of the incarnation , it is answered , scripture asserts it . ask again why we believe the divinity of that book called scripture ? it is answered , the church ascertains us of that . but how do we know that the church herein delivers truth ? it is answered if we speak of knowledge previous to faith : then he brings the motives of credibility , which make the churches infallibility so evidently credible , that we cannot if prudent and manifest reason guide us , but as firmly believe whatever this oracle teaches , as the israelites believed moses and the prophets . this one would think were enough of all conscience ; but he thinks otherwise , for there is saith he , but one only difference and that advantageous to them , that in lieu of moses they have an ample church ; innumerable multitudes in place of one servant of god , the incomparable greater light , the pillar and ground of truth , the catholick church diffused the whole world over : and a little after asserts , that they have the very same way of resolving faith which the primitive christians had in the time of christ and his apostles . here is enough asserted , if it could be proved . § . . against this way , laid down by my first adversary t. c. i objected these three things , . that it was unreasonable . . that it did not avoid the main difficulties . . that it was notoriously false ; these three waies of attacking it , ( of which a short account is given in the entrance of this discourse , ) i must now more largely defend . i shewed this way to be unreasonable : and that upon these grounds , . because an assent is hereby required beyond all proportion or degree of evidence for the act of faith being according to e. w. an insallible assent ; and no other grounds assigued for it besides the motives of credibility ; he must make an infallible assent only upon fallible grounds . and it is not sufficient to say , that the infallibility of the churches testimony makes the assent infallible ; for assent is not according to the objective certitude of things , but the evidence of them to our understanding . for is it possible to assent to the truth of a demonstration in a demonstrative manner , because any mathematician tells one the thing is demonstrable ? for in that case the assent is not according to the evidence of the thing , but according to the opinion such a person hath of him , who tells him it is demonstrable . nay supposing that person infallible in saying so , yet if the other hath no means to be infallibly assured that he is so , his assent is as doubtful as if he were not infallible : therefore supposing the testimony of the roman church to be really infallible , yet since the means of believing it are but probable and prudential ' ●he assent cannot be according to the nature of the testimony considered in it self , but according to the reasons which induce me to believe such a testimony infallible . and in all such cases , where i believe one thing for the sake of another , my assent to the object believed is according to my assent to the medium on which i believe it . as our light is not according to the light in the body of the sun , but that which presseth on our organs of sense . so that supposing their churches testimony to be infallible in it self , if one may be deceived in judging whether it be infallible or no , one may be deceived in such things which he believes on that supposed infallibility . it being impossible , that the assent to the matters of faith , should rise higher , or stand firmer than the assent to the testimony upon which those things are believed . but now to prove the churches infallibility , they make use only of the motives of credibility , which themselves grant can be the foundation only of a fallible assent . this was the reason i then urged , i must now consider what e. w. saith in answer to it . and the force of his answer lies in these things . . that all this proceeds from ignorance of the nature of faith , which discourses not like to science . for he grants that the article of faith which concerns gods rev●lation cannot be proved by another believe● article of faith wholly as obscure to us ● that is , for that would proceed in infinitum ; therefore all rational proofs avail t●●get faith in any must of necessity be extrinsecal to belief , and lie as it were i● another region more clear yet less certain than the revealed mystery is , we assent to by faith . and so in that article of faith , the church is gods infallible oracle , he saith , that antecedently to faith it cannot be proved by arguments as obscure and of the same infallible certainty with faith , for then faith would be superfluous , or rather we should believe by a firm and infallible assent , before we do believe on the motive of gods insallible revelation , which is impossible . so that the extrinsecal motives of faith whereby the churches infallibility is proved independently on scripture are not of the same certainty with supernatural faith it self , and only prove the evident credibility either of the scripture or the church . . that the force of this argument will hold against our selves , and those who believed in the apostles times , whose infallible assent of faitb doth as much exceed all proportion or degree of evidence as theirs does in believing the churches infallibility on the motives of credibility . in order to the giving a clear and distinct answer , it will be necessary to enquire ● . what those acts of faith are , we now discourse of ? . what influence the mo●ives of credibility have upon them ? . for the acts of faith , there are two assigned by e. w. . that whereby men be●elieve the scripture to be the word of god. . that whereby men believe the church to be infallible ; both these he acknowledges ●re articles of faith , and to be believed with ●an infallible assent . but here mark the shuffling : the first of these cannot be believed , but by an infallible testimony , viz. of the church ; for that end the churches infallibi●ity is made necessary , that the faith may be divine and infallible , because divine faith can rest only upon infallible testimony ; but ●hen in the other act of faith , whereby the churches infallibility is believed , we hear no more of this infallible testimony ; because then it is impossible to avoid the circle . i propose therefore this dilemma to e. w. either it is necessary to every act of divine faith to have an infallible testimony , or it is not : if it be not necessary , then there is no necessity of asserting the churches infallibility in order to believing the scriptures to be the word of god , and so the cause is gained ; if it be necessary , then the faith whereby the churches infallibility is believed , must have such a divine testimony , and so either a process in infinitum , or a circle are unavoidable by him . if he considered this , and yet wri● two such books to prove the necessity of infallibility in order to faith , he betrays too much insincerity for a man to deal with him ; if he did not , he need not complain so much of others ignorance , he may easily find enough nearer home . and therefore all the fault of these men does not lie barely in making the assent to be more certain than the motives of faith ; but in requiring so strictly in one act of faith a proportionable certainty to the assent and not in another . for what is there i beseech e. w. in believing the churches infallibility , which should not make it as necessary for that to be supported by an infallible testimony as that whereby we believe the divine revelation ? if faith hath n● grounds and doth not discourse as science doth , then i hope the case is alike in both● and so the necessity of an infallible testimony must be affirmed of the one , or equally denyed in the other . but he seems to assert , that faith whatever object it respects doth not discourse as science doth ; but solely relies on gods revealed testimony without the mixture of reason . grant this at present , but then i hope both these acts of faith equally do so ; and still ●he churches infallibility cannot be made ●ecessary to faith ; for if faith immediately ●elies on gods testimony , what need any other to ascertain it ? or any other proposition , than such as is sufficient to make known ●he object of faith , to which end no infalli●ility in the proponent is necessary . any more than it is necessary for the act of love ●oward a desireable object , that he that shews a beauty should be infallible in the description of her . if all the necessity of the churches proposition be no more , than to convey the divine testimony to us , as e. w. sometimes ●mplies , let him take pains to a little better purpose , in proving that such a conditio applicans as he calls it must have infallibility belonging to it . for infallibility is then only necessary , when it is relied upon and is the ground of believing , and not where it is a meer condition of understanding . if a prince sends an ambassadour about a match to a foraign princess , declaring that he will wholly rely upon his testimony of her , in this case there needs the greatest judgement and veracity in the person trusted ; because the prince resolves his judgement into his ambassadours testimony ; but if he only imploys a person to bring her into the room where he may see her and judge of her himself , in this case there is no necessity of any other quality th●● only obedience and fidelity . so we say as the church , if the churches testimony to be relied upon as the foundation of o● belief of the scriptures , then it is necessa● the church should be infallible if there c●● be no faith without such a testimony ; b● if all the office of the church be only to pr● pose the object of faith to be viewed and co● sidered by us , then a common veracity m● be sufficient for it . and in this case i gran● faith is not to be resolved into the conditio● of applying the object of faith ; any mo● than love is into the light whereby a m● sees beauty , or the burning of fire into th● laying near of the fuel : but if it be assert● that there can be no divine faith without ● infallible testimony , that , this testimony i● that of the church , and therefore upon thi● infallible testimony we must build our saith he is blind that doth not see in this case tha● it must be resolved into this infallible testimony . and therefore e. w. very impertinently charges me with this constant errour , viz. making the motives of faith the foundation of it , and that hereby i confound th● judgement of credibility with the assent of faith ; by making the infallible testimony of the church to those who believe it , the formal object of faith . for although the common motives of faith should do no more than ●ake the object of faith appear evidently ●edible , and so the faith of such persons be ●e●olved into a further reason than those mo●ves ; yet they who do believe upon the ac●ount of the infallibility of the churches ●estimony , must resolve their faith into that , which to them is the only infallible and adaequate ground of faith. § . . . to lay open the foundation of all these mistakes , about the nature of faith. i shall inquire into the influence which the motives of credibility have upon believing . and therein give an account of these three things . . what the motives of credibility are ? . how far they are necessary to faith ? . what influence they have upon the assent of faith ? . what these motives of credibility are ? suarez brings them under four heads . . from the qualities of the christian doctrine and those are , . it s truth without any mixture of falshood ; but faith he , if there be many things true and some false , it is a sufficient sign that doctrine is not from god , as it was among the philosophers of old . the way to judge of this quality he thus laies down , those things which the christian religion speaks of , which may be know● by natural light are very agreeable to th● common reason of mankind , those othe● things which are above it are not repugnan● to any principle of it , but are agreeable t● the infinite and incomprehensible majesty o● god. . the sanctity and purity of this doctrine , as appears by the excellency of the precepts of it ; the moral precepts not only agreeable to the law of nature , but tend much to the improvement of it ; the spiritual precepts have nothing contrary to the rules of morality , and are suitable to the perfections of the divine nature . . the efficacy of it , which is seen by the strange and miraculous ways of its propagation , by such instruments as were never like to effect their design without a divine power . . the second motive is , from the number of witnesses , of the whole trinity at the baptism of christ , of christ himself in his holy and innocent life , of moses and the prophets before him , of the apostles after him , of the devils themselves , of the multitude of martyrs of all kinds suffering with so much patience and courage , and christian religion increasing by it . . from the testimony god gave to the truth of it ; by the miracles which were wrought in confirmation of the doctrine preached , in which ought to be considered the nature , the effects , the frequency , the manner of working them , and the end for which they were wrought , which must be not meerly for the benefit of the person on whom they are wrought , but for a testimony to the truth of the doctrine delivered ; otherwise he grants a deceiver may work miracles . . from the continuance of this doctrine in the world , being so hard to believe the doctrine and practice the precepts of it ; meeting with such multitudes of enemies of all kinds ; out of all which the credibility of the christian religion may be demonstrated , a divine providence being supposed to take care of the affairs of mankind . greg. de valentiâ reckons up these motives to . michael medina follows ●cotus and makes . or . of them : on which he largely insists , viz. the fulfilling of prophesies , the consent of scriptures , their authority and truth , the care and diligence of the first christians in examining the doctrine of christianity , the excellency of it in all its parts , the propagation of it in the world , the miracles wrought for the confirmation of it , the testimony of enemies , the justice of providence , and the destruction of its adversaries . to the same purpose cardinal lugo and others of the schoolmen make an enumeration of the● motives of credibility ; but a late jesuit ha● reduced them all to the four chief attribute of god. his wisdom , goodness , powe● and providence , but inlarges upon the● much in the same way that suarez had don● thus much may suffice for understandin● what these motives of credibility are : wh●● are acknowledged to make up a demonstr●tion for the credibility of the christian religion . how far these are necessary to faith for that we are to consider that faith bein● an assent of the rational faculty in man , mu● proceed upon such grounds as may justifie th● assent to be a rational act : which cannot b● unless sufficient reason appear to induce th● mind to assent , which reason appearing ● all one with the cre●●bility of the object which doth not imply here what may be believed either with or without reason , but wha● all circumstances considered ought to be believed by every prudent person . and in thi● sense suarez asserts the necessity of the evidence of credibility to the act of faith : for saith he , it is not enough , that the object o● faith be proposed as revealed by god , but i● is necessary that it be proposed with such circumstances , as make it appear prudently cr●dible in that way it is proposed . for levil● of judgement and rashness of assent he makes ●nconsistent with divine faith ; and every man ought so to believe as to exclude all fear of the contrary , and so as that he can never ●rudently disbelieve what he now believes ; but if a man believes upon bad grounds , he may afterwards prudently reject those grounds . but this is not all , for he makes such a proposition of the object of faith necessary , whereby it appears evidently credible as revealed by god , and consequently as certain and infallible . for which he gives this reason ; because an inclination of the will to assent must precede the assent of faith before which there must be a judgement determining that act of the will ; this judgement must either be certain , or uncertain ; if uncertain it is not sufficient for divine faith ; if it be certain then there must be such an evidence of credibility in the objects of faith . and although a practical certainty as to matters of humane faith may be sufficiently founded upon a judgement of probability , i. e. a man may judge it fit for him to believe where he sees only a greater probability on one side than of the other ; yet in matters of divine faith a higher judgement than of meer probability is necessary , viz. that which is founded upon the evidence of credibility ; for with a meer probability a prudent doubting is consistent , which is not with divine saith , and withal the certainty of faith is not meerly practical but speculative , i. e. of the truth of the thing in it self , and therefore requires a speculative evidence of the credibility of the object . from whence he concludes , that a bare credibility is not sufficient , but a greater credibility of the doctrine believed than of any other contrary to it ; for if two doctrines appear equally credible there can be only a doubtful assent given to one of them : and a man might choose which he would believe : but in the assent of faith it is not only necessary that there be a greater credibility of one doctrine than of the other ; but that this be evident to natural reason : which dictates that in matters of salvation that doctrine is to be believed which appears more evidently credible than any other . to the same purpose cardinal lugo determines that the will cannot command a prudent assent of faith , where there precedes only a probable judgement of the credibility of the object , because there must be the apprehension of a certain obligation to believe , which must arise from the evidence of credibility in the object of faith . and aquinas himself had determined , that no man would believe , unless he saw that the things were to be believed , either sor the evidence os miracles or something of a like nature : which cajetan interprets of believing truly and vertuously : truly , i. e. without fear of the contrary , and vertuously , i. e. prudently . so that although men may rashly and indiscreetly believe things without sufficient evidence of their credibility , yet no man can by the acknowledgement of the most learned of the schoolmen , yield a rational and prudent assent of faith without it . . the main thing is to consider what influence the evidence of credibility hath upon the act of faith ? for e. w. asserts that all that results from thence is only a judgement of credibility , but that the act of faith it self relies wholly upon other principles ; and by the help of the distinction of these two he labours to avoid the force of my arguments . thus then the matter stands , it is agreed that faith must have rational proofs antecedent to it , but these proofs he must say do not perswade men to believe , or which is all one , have no influence upon the act of faith. if all that were meant by this talk were only this , that we are then said properly to believe when we fix our assent upon gods testimony , but that all acts of the mind short of this may not properly be called believing , but by some other name , this would presently appear to be a controversie about words , which i perfectly hate . but more must be understood by such men as e. w. or else they do not speak at all to the purpose ; for the question is , whether in requiring an infallible assent of faith to the churches infallibility upon motives confessedly fallible , an assent be not required beyond all proportion or degree of evidence ? to this he answers , that this argument proceeds upon ignorance of the nature of faith which doth not discourse as science doth : and he grants that the motives of credibility have not the same certainty that faith hath . what then can hence follow , but that faith is an unreasonable assent , and hath no grounds ; or that it may be stronger than the grounds it proceeds upon ? but if it appear , that faith must have grounds , and that the assent of faith can be no stronger than the grounds are , then it follows that they are very unreasonable in requiring an infallible assent of faith to the churches infallibility barely upon the motives of credibility . § . . . that faith must have grounds , if a man had not to deal with persons who have confounded their own understandings with an appearance of subtilty , one would think this as needless a task as to prove that man is a reasonable creature ; for if faith be an assent of the mind , taking it as strictly and properly as they please , it must have the nature of a rational act , which it cannot have unless it proceeds upon reasonable grounds . the grounds i grant are different in several assents , but it must always have some . those which are accounted the most immediate assents have the clearest and most evident reason , such as the assents to first principles are , as that the whole is greater than the part . &c. and for conclusions drawn from them , the readiness and firmness of the assent is proportionable to the evidence of their connexion with those principles from whence they are drawn . in other things that depend upon the evidence of sense , the reason of our assent to the truth of them , is from the supposition of the truth of our faculties and that we are so framed as not to be imposed upon , in matters that are plainly and with due circumstances conveyed to our minds by our organs of sense . but if there appear an evidence of reason overthrowing the certainty of sense , scepticism immediately follows and the suspension of all assent to the truth of things conveyed by our senses ; for no man can then be certain of any thing by the evidence of sense , but only of the appearance of things . i may be certain , that things do appear with such difference of colours , and tasts , and smells ; but i cannot be certain that there are really such differences in the things themselves . if therefore the scepticks arguments should prevail upon any mans mind so far , as to make him question whether sense be a certain medium to convey the truth of the things to his mind , it is impossible that man should yield a firm assent to the truth of any thing on the account of the evidence of sense . so that still , assent proceeds upon the grounds of reason which satisfie the mind , that all circumstances considered it ought not to suspend any longer . let us now consider such things which are not so evident of themselves , nor conveyed by our senses ; and unless we distrust all mankind we have reason to believe some things to be which we never saw our selves , and this is the fundamental ground of that we call believing ; which is nothing else , but taking truth upon trust ; or receiving a thing as true upon such testimony which i see no reason to question . if i see any reason to doubt either the skill or fidelity of those persons upon whose credit i am to rely ; it is impossible for me firmly to believe upon their authority ; if i see none , then on that account i believe what they say ; wherein it is as evident that my assent is according to the grounds i proceed upon , as that two and two make four . what is it then that hath thus confounded these mens minds , to make them to contend that the act of divine faith is of such a nature that nothing like it is to be found in any other act of the mind ? must we cease to be men by being christians ? or where the strongest reason is most necessary , must there be none at all ? to what end then were there arguments ever used to perswade men to believe christianity ? were those arguments able to perswade men or not ? if they were , then men did believe upon the strength of those arguments ; and is it possible for men to believe upon the strength of arguments and yet those arguments have no influence upon the act of faith ? this is horrible nonsense and fit only for those to write who believe contradictions ; for such an act of faith indeed can have no reason for it . but to come closer yet to our matter : the churches infallibility is to be believed , saith e. w. with divine faith ; is there any ground for that act of faith , or not ? if there be none , shew what obligation to believe there can be , where there is no ground for it : if there be , i desire to know , whether they are able to perswade me or not ; if not , shew then why i ought to believe on insufficient grounds ; if they be , may not i then believe upon those grounds ? and if i do , doth not that act of faith rely upon those grounds ▪ besides , of those who plead for the necessity of the churches infallibility , i desire to know on what account they do it ? is it not , that faith may have a sufficient foundation to be built upon , which in their opinion cannot be without such infallibility ? and yet after all this , must not faith stand upon this ground ? why then are , scotus , durand , gabriel , medina and others charged by some of the roman church with resolving faith into the churches testimony ? what is this else but only to make the churches testimony the ground of faith ? nay , why are there any disputes at all about the formal object of faith ? for the formal object is nothing but the reason of believing , and what account can be given of the reason of believing if there be none at all ? but it may be all this while i mistake my profound adversary , it being hardly possible that a man of common sense should write such stuff . to prevent any suspicion of this nature i shall lay down his assertions in his own words ; from several places of his worthy works . faith solely relies on gods revealed testimony without the mixture of reason for ill motive ; the previous motives well pondered , bring with them an obligation to believe and not faith it self . for , faith reasons not , but simply believes : faith contrary to science goes beyond the certainty of all extrinsecal inducements . and afterwards , where he attempts to answer the main difficulty , as he calls it , in the resolution of faith , ( which in short is , since the motives of credibility seem to leave the matter doubtful , what that is , which determines the assent to the objects of faith as infallibly true ? ) waving at present that answer , that it is from the command of the will , he seems to attribute so great an evidence to the motives of credibility , that they do infallibly prove the truth of divine revelation , there being an insiparable connexion between the motives and divine revelation ; but then he starts an untoward objection , viz. that then the revelation must appear evident and so faith would be evident ; to which he answers by denying the consequence , because this assent is science and not faith ; now this evidence arising from the motives of credibility , faith , saith he , as faith leaves , or lays aside , and firmly adheres to the divine revelation only for it self , as contradistinct both from the moral evidence of the motives , and their apparent connexion with the revelation . the reason is taken , saith he , from the notion of faith , which essentially tends obscurely upon its own object , as the most ancient fathers assert . from whence it is clear , if you believe him , that no evidence of the testimony assented to can move to faith , not only because we should in the case of evidence be necessitated to believe , but upon this account also , that the certitude of faith , taken from the supreamest verity , i● of a higher strain and far surpasses all the certitude we find in nature , or in the motives inducing to believe . but which is more pleasant he yet adds , it is true , the more evident these motives appear the better they induce to believe , yet for that reason have less to do with the very act of faith , which as he said , rests upon and lays claim to no lower a verity , than the most pure and supream only , and if it rests not here , it is no faith . and yet after all this he asserts , that the evidence of credibility apparent in those manifest signs and marks which illustrate true christianity is abundantly sufficient to induce the most obdurate heart in the world to believe with such an assent as suits gods great majesty , i. e. with a faith most firm and infallible . here we have motives , such motives as give evidence of divine revelation , such motives as are sufficient to induce the most obdurate person to an infallible assent of faith ; and yet after all this evidence by these motives in order to believing ; this believing hath nothing to do with them , and the more they induce to believe , the less influence they have upon faith , for that fixeth on the divine revelation solely for it self , and hath a certainty beyond that of the greatest arguments that are used for believing . he that hath the faculty of understanding these things ought to oblige mankind with a clearer discovery of them , than e. w. hath made ; who doth not seem to understand what he writes himself and therefore it cannot be expected that others should . but the foundation of all this nonsense , is a strange apprehension of the nature of faith , which the school-doctrine hath so rivited into him , that it seems to be of the nature of a first principle with him , which must be supposed as the basis of all his discourse ; which is , that faith is an obscure and inevident assent , or that it essentially tends obscurely to its object , and therefore no motives , or arguments how clear or strong soever can have any influence upon faith . for he imagines as great an opposition between arguments and faith as between light and darkness ; he first conceives faith to be a kind of deep dungeon of the soul full of darkness and obscurity , and then bids men have a care of bringing any light into it , for if they do , it ceaseth to be what he described it . a light may serve a man very well to shew him the way to this dungeon , nay it may direct him to the very door ; but then farewel to all light , no● the least crevise must be left to let in any to the mind that is once entred it ; but the excellency of it is , that the soul fixes more certainly on its object in this state of darkness , than it could do being environed with the clearest light . just as if a man should say there is a particular way of seeing with ones eys shut , which is far more admirable and excellent , than all the common ways of beholding things ; being far more certain and piercing than seeing by the help of eyes and light is ; for the light and sight may both fail in the representation of an object ; but this seeing without eyes is an infallible way to prevent all the fallacies of sense . much in this way doth e. w. talk ; for all arguments are fallible , and therefore by no means must faith proceed upon them ; o but this believing without , or above , or it may be against arguments , is the most infallible thing in the world ; for that man need never fear being deceived with reason that disowns the use of it . upon these grounds a skilful painter may make a shift to bungle and to draw some rude uneven strokes by the help of his pencil and a good light ; but if he would be sure not to miss making an excellent piece he ought to shut his eyes or darken his room , for then to be sure that fallible thing called light can never deceive him . an indifferent person that only consulted the nature and reason of things could never have fallen into these dotages ; but it hath been the interest of some men to cry down light that have had false wares to put off . but of all things i wonder if this be the whole nature of christian faith to believe no man knows why nor wherefore , ( for if he doth , his faith ceases to be faith being built upon reason ) why all this ado is kept about an infallible church and motives of credibility ? cannot a man believe without reason at first as well at last ? cannot faith fix upon gods revelation for it self , without troubling those motives of credibility to no purpose ? if a man hath a mind to leap blindfold from a precipice , why cannot he do it without so much ceremony ? must he have all his attendance about him , and his gentleman-usher to conduct him to the very brink of the rock , and there bid him goodnight ? if all these motives of credibility contribute nothing to the act of believing , what use are they of in such a religion , where faith is look'd on as the great principle of practice and the means of salvation ? if the judgement of credibility would save men , they might still be useful ; but this will be by no means allowed , for nothing in their opinion , but this blind guide ( which they call faith ) can conduct men to heaven . § . . but what is it that hath made me● so in love with nonsense and contradictions ? hath the scripture given any countenance to this notion of faith ? yes doubtless ; they are such lovers of scripture , that they da●e not take up any opinion in these matters without plain scripture . then i hope scripture may be plain in clear things , if it be so in the description of so obscure a thing as they make faith to be . but doth not the scripture say , that faith is the substance of things hoped for , and the evidence of things not seen ? and is not this all one as if it had been said that faith essentially tends obscurely to its object , and that it is an inevident assent and therefore cannot make use of arguments ? this i know is all the pretence they have for this notion of faith ; but is it not very pretty , because faith is called an evidence therefore i● must be inevident , or to follow the vulga● latine because it is called an argument therefore it can use none ? no man is so senseless to deny , that we believe things we do not see , and things which cannot be seen ; we believe some things which might have been seen , and were seen by some whose credit we rely upon ; as the death and resurrection of jesus christ : we believe other things which are uncapable of being seen by our senses , as the joys of heaven and the torments of hell ; and as to such things faith supplies the want of the evidence of sense to us ; and by it our minds are assured of the truth of them though we do not or cannot see them . which is all that is intended by this description of faith ; but how doth it hence follow that our faith must be an immediate , inevident , obscure assent , on which all the arguments that perswade men to believe , can have no influence ? may not i believe that christ died and rose again , and will come to judge the quick and the dead , because i see all the reason in the world to perswade me to believe it , from the testimony of those who saw him and have delivered his doctrine to us , and have given the greatest evidence of their fidelity ? doth the strength of the argument hinder me at all from believing what i did not see ? i had rather thought the more obscure the object had been , ( for it is little better than nonsense to call an act of faith obscure ) , the greater necessity there had been of strong evidence to perswade a man to believe ; not such evidence as doth arise from the nature of the thing , for that is contrary to the obscurity of the object , but such as gives the greatest reason to believe from the authority of those on whose testimony i rely . so that the greatest clearness and evidence as to the testimony is not repugnant to the nature of faith ; this only shews that in christian religion we do no● proceed by meer evidence of sense or rigorous demonstrations in the things we assent to ; but that the great things we believe are remote from sense and received upon the authority of the revealer ; yet so , as that we assert we have as great evidence that these things were revealed by god , as the matter was capable of ; and such evidence we say ought to perswade any prudent person . this is all which the description of faith so much alledged doth imply ; which was never intended for an accurate definition of it ; for as hugo de sancto victore saith of it , non indicat quid est fides , sed signat quid facit ; it doth not shew what faith is , but what it doth ; by making things future and invisible to have as great power and influence on mens minds as if they were present and visible . and when the fathers speak of the obscurity of faith , they do not mean an assent without grounds , but the belief of things out of our view ; and that obscurity is understood by them in comparison with the clearness of a future state : or in opposition to the way of proving things by meer reason without revelation . so cardinal lugo truly answers the testimonies of fathers to that purpose , by saying that when they exclude reason and arguments from faith they take them as they are opposed to authority ; but in as much as they suppose the mysteries of christian faith to be believed for the sake of divine revelation , a discourse is thereby implied from the authority of god revealing to the mysteries believed . neither is such discourse only requisite , but that in the first place which doth assure men of the truth of this revelation ; for upon that , the other must proceed . all mediums used for the proof of this , must be extrinsecal to the nature of the thing , and therefore cannot be repugnant to faith ; and in this i have the consent of some of the most learned of the schoolmen , who make evidentiam in attestante as they call it , consistent with faith . but saith e. w. no thanks to thee poor creature , to assent hadst thou evidence . this it is now to hope to merit at gods hands by a blind faith ! for so elsewhere , he saith , evidence is incompatible with that merit and obsequiousness of faith ; which god requires of his rational creatures who are to walk to heaven by an humble and dutiful faith . a very humble saith certainly that hopes to merit by believing ! and very dutiful in expecting so large a reward for doing it knows not what ! we think it our duty to believe firmly whatever god saith ; but withal we think it our duty to enquire carefully whether god hath said it or no before we believe : and according to the evidence we have of this we assent to the former . but this is not to proceed nobly with god , saith e. w. brave man ! it hath been reported of a hector in this town that a little before his death he said he hoped god would deal with him like a gentleman : it seems e. w. would deal so with god. we have often heard of works of super-erogation ; but our noble e. w. is not content with them , he will have a faith of super-erogation too . we poor creatures , are contented to do our duties , and take it as a great favour , for god to accept of the best we can do : we dare not so much as think of such terms of kindness and favour from us to god , as to proceed nobly with him . neither do we believe , that god is so hugely pleased with the blind and the lame , when they are offered in sacrifice to him . whatever e. w. imagines , it is no such noble proceeding to believe infallibly upon confessedly fallible grounds . for that is the present case , he grants that the motives of credibility are not infallible , and that there are no other motives in order to faith above these , and yet he supposes we ought to oblige god by giving an infallible assent upon these motives . but the bottom of all is that our faith ought to be suitable to gods infallible veracity , which faith immediately rests upon and from whence and not ●rom the motives , infallible certainty as e w. speaks , is transfused into it . this deep speculation by no means satisfies me ; for though i know it to be impossible for god to lie or to deceive ; yet our question is not about believing the truth of what god saith , but about believing this or that to be revealed by him . and while the question is whether gods veracity be concerned in the thing , how is it possible for his veracity to transfuse an infallible certainty into my belief of it ? suppose e. w. be acquainted with as honest a man as ever lived , and one comes and tells him from him that such a friend of his was dead , and gave him five hundred pound ; i would fain know whether the unquestionable veracity of the friend , from whom the messenger saith he received it , can transfuse an unquestionable certainty in his mind of the truth of the thing , while he is yet in doubt whether his faithful friend said it or no ? if his assent here be not according to the veracity of his friend , unless he be first assured of the fidelity of the reporter ; no more can it be in the present case of believing . for no one questions what god saith , but our only doubt is whether god hath said it ; and whilst one gives no infallible assent to the one , he cannot infallibly rest upon the other . but may not credible arguments as to the messenger be sufficient for infallible belief of the thing upon the authority of the other ? for that , i appeal to e. w. whether his belief of the thing would not in that case be according to the grounds he had to believe the messenger ? and the authority of his friend would make him so much the more question whether his name might not be abused by a person that had a design to put a trick upon him ; especially if that messenger challenged to himself so much credit that he ought to be believed without any dispute at a●l . for in this case , the over eager affirming would give a man cause to question the more the truth of the person , if his evidence bear no proportion with his confidence . so it is in our present case : it is granted on all sides , if god reveals any thing it must be true : our enquiry is how far we are to believe that god hath said such a thing upon the credit of those who convey it to us ; if they desire no more credit with us than they give sufficient evidence for , then we are bound to believe them ; but if they exact an infallible assen● and offer only fallible grounds we have reason to mistrust their design ; and so long as we do so , we must question the thing which we are to believe upon their credit . if they require only an assent suitable to their evidence it would be unreasonable to deny it , but still the degree of our assent to the revelation is proportionable to the degree of evidence that it is a divine revelation . which dr. holden thinks to be so evident , that he accounts it lost labour for a man to go about to prove it to any one that hath common sense : viz. that no assent of divine faith can have any greater true and rational certainty , than the assent of the medium hath , by which the object of faith is applied to the understanding . for whatever certainty we can attribute to an intellectual assent upon the authority of god revealing it is necessary it should come from and depend upon the certainty of the medium , by which this authority of god revealing is conveyed to the understanding . for as it is impossible that a man should believe or yield assent to any thing because it is revealed by god , unless he thinks and knows that god hath revealed it ; so it is impossible that he should believe the things revealed by god with greater true and rational certainty , than that by which he knows that god revealed them . for whatever degree of uncertainty or doubt there is in the mind of a believer of the certainty and truth of the medium , there must be the same in that assent whereby he believes the things which are proposed by that medium . because with what degree a man doubts whether god hath revealed this or that , he cannot but doubt in the same degree of that which is said to be revealed by god. for what man in his wits doth not presently perceive that no man can be more certain of that thing which god is said to reveal , than he is certain that god hath revealed it ; as no man can be more certain of the things done by caesar , than they are that caesar was ; or of the mysteries revealed by christ , than that christ was . this he saith he had never mentioned , unless some later divines , ( such as e. w. ) discoursing vainly and sceptically , and not considering the true reason of believing , had feigned to themselves he knew not what kind of divine and supernatural certainty in christian faith ( passing by the true and rational ) which it is clearer than noon day , is but an idle and imaginary thing . good reader , observe the power of reason over an ingenuous mind ; i know not what entertainment dr. h. might have given e. w. on other accounts ; but it is plain by this discourse he thought a dark room the fittest for him , since he pronounces that no man in his senses can assert the things which he confidently doth . although therefore he thought this needless to be proved , yet i must proceed to shew , § . . . that the assent of faith can be no stronger than the grounds are . for if it doth proceed upon grounds , those are of the nature of premises and the assent of faith as the conclusion drawn from them , and therefore must be stronger or weaker according to them . in every act of faith which hath a particular revelation for its object ; there must be two distinct premises conceived from whence that which is the proper act of believing follows . as suppose the question be concerning the resurrection of the dead , why i believe that article of faith to be t●ue , the present answer is because god hath revealed it ; but therein lies the force of a syllogism , by which it will appear that the act of faith follows as the conclusion from the premises . whatsoever god reveals is true , but god hath revealed the resurrection of the dead , therefore it is true . now since the force of a conclusion depends upon the premises , the assent of faith cannot be supposed stronger and firmer than the premises are from which it results . for however it may hold in other causes ; in those which are moral and final , it is an undoubted maxim of reason , that which makes an other thing to be so , must be much more so it self : as that end which makes any thing desirable for its sake , is much more desirable it self , because it is that which moves the soul to desire the means ; and so it is likewise in whatever moves the understanding to assent as well as the will to desire : but the premises do move the understanding to assent to the conclusion , therefore the consent to the conclusion must be agreeable to that of the premises . this difficulty hath so racked and tormented the minds of the schoolmen , that arriaga relates he hath heard the most learned and ingenious among them profess they could find no way through it . while they did require an infallible assent in the conclusion , when there could be no infallible assent to one of the premises , viz. that god hath revealed this . which some have thought they got over when they asserted the necessity of the churches infallibility , as the foundation of that assent . but granting them the truth of that , yet they have given the difficulty but one remove by it , for it speedily returns again , concerning the belief of the churches infa●libility , which they agree must be believed infallibly , and yet here again they offer at no more than motives confessed to be fallible to prove it . and so at last they are fain to take up with other answers , which make the churches infallible proposition of no use at all in this matter : for if the assent be said to be immediate to the revelation , if the strength of it arises either from the spirit of god , or the pious inclination of the will , and not from the motives of faith , if any of these waies can solve the difficulty ; then however from hence it follows that all these will equally do it without ever so much as supposing the necessity of the churches infallible testimony . i shall not now trouble my self with others , but consider my adversary who after making several attempts this way and that , at last bethinks of a good friend in a corner , called the power of the will , and to this he is willing to attribute the strength of the assent , when it exceeds the motives of faith : which he thinks the more plain and easie way ; and therefore asserts that after the previous judgement of credibility , the will works by h●r pious affection , and that moves the understanding to elicit the infallible assent of faith. for saith he , if it be demanded how the understanding dares rest most firmly on an object not evidently seen , we pass ●rom that power to the will and say , she can by her pious affection command the intellectual faculty to captivate it self in obsequium fidei and believe most undoubtedly . this is the last reserve in this matter , which is as weak as any of the former . for if the will can determine the understanding to assent beyond the strength of the motives , it may determine it to assent without any motives at all ; because that degree of assent which doth exceed the evidence of the motives hath nothing to incline or move it besides the meer power of the will : and if it can command the highest and most infallible assent withou● infallible grounds it may equally command a fallible assent without fallible grounds , and by this means there will be no need of any motives of credibility at all . besides , this takes away any such thing as the formal object of divine faith ; for if the infallible assent of faith do come from the power of the will ; then to what purpose is any formal object of that assent enquired after ? for the formal object doth assign a reason of believing from the object it self , of which there can be none if the will by her own power elicit that which is the proper assent of faith. and all other material objects of faith may be believed in as infallible a manner by the same power of the will. but if the will can command the understanding to assent beyond the degree of evidence ; why may not the understanding dictate to the will to desire a thing beyond the degree of goodness appearing to it ; and by this means both those faculties would tend to their objects in a way disagreeing to their nature . all these ways being found in sufficient , cardinal lugo saith some had recourse at last to a mysterious elevation of the understanding , beyond all connatural ways of its operation , whereby it lays hold on the matters of faith in a way wholly inexplicable ; and however the cardinal slights this way , and expresseth a great detestation of it , as that which renders the matters of faith incredible and imperceptible ; yet i think it absolutely the best for those of the roman church that hath yet been thought of ; and i would particularly commend it to e. w. who loves to talk so unintelligibly and confusedly , as if he had this habit of believing infused already . and thus much in vindication of the first argument , i proposed against making the infallible testimony of the church the foundation of faith , and yet that infallibility to be only proved by the motives of credibility , viz. that hereby an infallible assent must be built upon fallible grounds . as to what e. w. saith by way of recrimination it shall be answered , when i come to defend our own grounds of faith. § . . the next argument , which afford● any new matter to my adversary , whereb● i shewed this way of resolving faith to b● unreasonable was , because by making the insallible testimony of the church necessary to faith , they make that necessary to faith , which was not made so by christ or his apostles . what then , say i , will become of the faith of all those who received divine revelations , without the infallible testimony of any church at all ? with what faith did the disciples of christ at the time of his suffering , believe the divine authority of the old testament ? was it a true divine faith or not ? if it was whereon was it built ? not certainly on the infallible testimony of the jewish church , which at that time consented to the death of the messias , condemning him as a malefactor and deceiver : or did they believe it because of the great rational evidence they had to convince them , that those prophesies came from god ? if so , why may not we believe the divinity of all the scriptures on the same grounds and with a divine faith too ? with what faith did those believe in the messias who were not personally present at the miracles which our saviour wrought , but had them conveyed to them by such reports as the womans of samaria was to the samaritans ? or were all such persons excused from believing , meerly because they were not spectators ? but by the same reason all those would be excused , who never saw our saviours miracles , or heard his doctrine or his apostles : but if such persons then were bound to believe , i ask on what testimony was their faith founded ? was the woman of samaria infallible in reporting the discourse between christ and her ? were all the persons infallible who gave an account to others of what christ did ? yet i suppose , had it been your own case , you would have thought your self bound to have believed christ to have been the messias , if you had lived at that time , and a certain account had been given you of our saviours doctrine and miracles by men faithful and honest , though you had no reason to have believed them infallible : i pray , sir , answer me , would you have thought your self bound to have believed or no ? if you affirm it ( as i will suppose you so much a christian as to say so ) i pray then tell me whether persons in those circumstances might not have a true and divine faith where there was no infallible testimony , but only rational evidence to build it self upon ? and if those persons might have a divine faith upon such evidence as that was , may not we much more who have evidence of the same nature indeed , but much more extensive , universal , and convincing than that was ? and how then can you stil● assert an infallible testimony of the conveyers of divine revelation to be necessary in order to a divine faith ? nay further yet , how few were there in comparison , in the first ages of the christian church , who received the doctrine of the gospel from the mouths of persons infallible ? and of those who did so , what certain evidence have men , that all those persons did receive the doctrine upon the account of the infallibility of the propounders , and not rather upon the rational evidence of the truth of the doctrine delivered ; and whether the belief of their infallibility was absolutely necessary to faith , when the report of the evidences of the truth of the doctrine might raise in them an obligation to believe , supposing them not infallible in that delivery of it , but that they looked on them as honest men , who faithfully related what they had seen and heard ? and to which evidence of sense the apostles and evangelists appealed ; so that when there was certainly an infallible testimony , yet that is not urged as the only foundation for faith , but rational evidence produced even by those persons who were thus infallible , if we descend lower in the christian church , or walk abroad to view the several plantations of the churches at that time , where do we read or meet with the least intimation of an infallible testimony of the catholick church , so called from its communion with that of rome ? what infallible testimony of that church had the poor britains to believe on ? or those barbarians mentioned in irenaeus , who yet believed without a written word ? what mention do we meet with in all the ancient apologeticks of christians wherein they give so large an account of the grounds of christian faith , of the modern method for resolving faith ? nay , what one ancient father or council give the least countenance to this pretended infallibility , much less make it the only sure foundation of faith as you do ? nay how very few are there among your selves who believe it , and yet think themselves never the worse christians for it ? if then your doctrine be true what becomes of the faith of all these persons mentioned ? upon your principles their faith could not be true and divine faith ; that is , let them all think they believed the doctrine of christ never so heartily , and obey it never so conscientiously ; yet because they did not believe on the infallibility of your church , their faith was but a kind of guilded and splendid infidelity , and none of them christians , because not jesuits . and doth not this principle then fairly advance christianity in the world , when the belief of it comes to be settled on foundations , never heard of in the best and purest times of it ; nay such foundations , as for want of their believing them , their faith must be all in vain , and christ dyed in vain for them . and what now saith e. w. to all this ? first , he saith , i do not bring instances enough . secondly , that i bring too many . . that i do not bring enough ; for he much wonders i omit to touch upon an instance far more difficult than any of these concerning rude and illiterate persons , which i and all others are bound to solve . me● thinks he might have been contented with those i had brought , unless he had answered them better ; and should not have blamed me for omitting that which i purposely take notice of and give a sufficient answer to in these words . although the ignorance and carelesness of men in a matter of so great consequence be so great in all ages , as is not to be justified , because all men ought to endeavour aster the highest ways of satisfaction in a matter so nearly concerning them ( and it is none of the least things to be blamed in your church , that she doth so much countenance this ignorance and neglect of the scripture ) yet for such persons who either morally or invincibly are hindred from this capacity of examining scripture , there may be sufficient means for their faith to be built upon . for although such illiterate persons cannot themselves see and read the scripture , yet as many as do believe do receive the doctrine of it by that sense , by which faith is conveyed ; and by that means they have so great certainty as excludes all doubting , that such doctrines and such matters of fact are contained in these books , by which they come to the understanding of the nature of this doctrine and are capable of judging concerning the divinity of it . for the light spoken of in scripture is not a light to the eye but to the mind ; now the mind is capable of this light , as well by the ear , as by the eyes . the case then of such honest illiterate persons , as are not capable of reading scripture , but diligently and devoutly hear it read to them , is much of the same nature with those who heard the apostles preach this doctrine before it was writ . for whatever was an argument to such to believe the apostles in what they spake , becomes an argument to such who hear the same things , which are certainly conveyed to us , by an unquestionable tradition : so that nothing hinders but such illiterate persons may resolve their faith into the same doctrine and motives which others do , only those are conveyed to them by the ear , which are conveyed to others by the eyes . but if you suppose persons so rude and illiterate , as not to understand any thing , but that they are to believe as the church believes ; do you if you can , resolve their faith for them ; for my part i cannot , and am so far from it that i have no reason to believe they can have any . judge now , reader , what measure i am like to meet with from such men , who can so impudently charge me with omitting a difficulty , which i give so punctual an answer to . . but those instances i have brought are too many for him ; as will easily appear by the shuffling answers he makes to them . my design was from them to prove that the churches infallibity was not necessary in order to faith ; he puts it thus : if the infallibility of the church be a sure foundation of faith , &c. is not this a good beginning to put sure in stead of necessary , or only sure ? for that may be sure which is not necessary , and it was the necessity i disproved by these instances . to them however he attempts to give an answer . . in general . that none make the roman catholick church in all circumstances the only sure foundation of divine faith. for the first man that believed in christ our lord before the compleat establishment of his church had perfect faith resting on that great master of truth , without dependance on the christian church , for christ alone was not the church , but the head of it . faith therefore in general requires no more , but only to rely upon god the first verity speaking by this or that oracle , by one or more men lawfully sent to teach , who prove their mission and make the doctrine proposed by them evidently credible . in like manner the apostles preached no doctrine in the name of the new christian church , whilst our saviour lived here on earth , but testified that he was the true messias by vertue of those signs and miracles which had been already wrought above the force of nature . a very fair concession ! which plainly destroys the necessity of the churches infallibility in order to faith. for if no more be necessary in order to faith , but to rely upon god the first verity speaking by this or that oracle , &c. how comes the infallible testimony of the church to be in any age necessary to faith ? for god spake by christ and his apostles as his oracles by whom his word is declared to us , therefore nothing can be necessary to faith but to rely upon god the first truth speaking by them . and this we assert as well as they . but he must prove that we cannot rely on god as speaking by them , unless he hath an insallible church in every age , if he will make this infallible testimony of the church necessary to faith ; which i despair of ever seeing done while the world stands . . in particular , . to the instance of the disciples of christ believing the divine authority of the old testament without any infallible testimony of the jewish church ; only upon the rational evidence they had to convince them that those prophesies came from god : he answers ; that it is hard to say where the force of it lies , seeing there were innumerable jews then dispersed all jury over and the other parts of the world who most firmly believed the divine authority of those books , upon whose testimony the apostles might believe those books to be divine . a most excellent answer if we well consider it ! have not they of the church of rome proved the necessity of infallibility in the church from deut. . , , . ( of which abundant instances might be produced , and particularly the considerator of my principles ) which words if they imply any infallibility at all do necessarily prove that it is lodged in the supream ecclesiastical judges and no where else ; so that if there were no infallibility in them it could not be supposed to be any where else ; therefore i proposed the case at that time when these ecclesiastical judges consented to the death of christ , and my question will not only hold of the apostles but of any common jews among them , who might not believe christ infallible , any more than the sanhedrin , i ask whether such might not have seen sufficient ground to believe that the prophesies came not in old time by the will of man , but by the will of god ? if such persons had reason sufficient for their faith without any infallible testimony ; the same i say may all christians have of the divine authority of the new testament . for if the concurrent testimony of the dispersed jews firmly believing the divine authority of the old testament were a sufficient ground for a person then to believe the divinity of those books ; why may not the concurrent testimony of all christians afford as sufficient a ground to believe the authority of the books of the new , though no ecclesiastical senate among christians be supposed any more infallible , than the jewish sanhedrin was at the death of christ ? and by this i hope e. w. may a little better perceive what this objection aims at . but , saith he , hence it follows not , that then there was no jewish church which believed the divine verities of the old scripture : o the monstrous subtilty of jesuits ! who is able to stand before their terrible wits ? what have we to do with a churches believing the divine verities of the old scripture ? we only enquire for the testimony of a church as necessary in order to others believing it . if they firmly believed and yet had no infallible testimony of a church at that time what can be more to our advantage than this ? seeing it hence follows , that there may be a firm faith without any churches infallible testimony . well , but he verily thinks , i mistook one objection for another ; perhaps i would have said that the apostles lost faith of our saviours resurrection at the time of his passion , but this difficulty is solved over and over . and then falls unmercifully to work with this man of clouts ; he throws him first down and tramples upon him , then sets him up again to make him capable of more valour being shown upon him , then he kicks him afresh , beats him of one side and then of the other , and so terribly triumphs over him , that the poor man of clouts blesseth himself that he is not made of flesh and bones , for if he had , it might have cost him some aches and wounds . but i assure him i meant no such thing ; yet if i had , i do not see , but after all his batteries , the argument , such as it is , would have stood firm enough ; for supposing the infallible testimony of the church to rest in the apostles after our saviours death , it must have prejudiced the faith of others who were to believe that article upon their authority , if they lost the faith of christs resurrection . . i instanced in those who believed in christ and yet were not personally present at the miracles which our saviour wrought , but had them conveyed to them by such reports as the womans of samaria was to the samaritans . of these i ask what infallible testimony their faith was built upon ? and if those persons might have a divine faith meerly upon rational evidence , may not we much more who have evidence of the same nature , but much more extensive , universal and convincing than that was ? to this he answers , by distinguishing between the motive or the natural proposition of faith , which comes by hearing and the infallible oracle whereupon it relies ; and he thinks it strange i did not see the distinction . it is far easier to see the distinction than the pertinency of it to his purpose ; for our question is not about the necessity of an infallible oracle in order to faith , but of an infallible proposition ; we still yield that which our faith relies upon to be an infallible oracle of god , but if a natural proposition of that be sufficient for faith , we have all we contend for . but to what purpose the legend of s. photina , and the dispute whether she were the samaritan woman , is here inserted , is very hard to understand , unless he thought it the best way by any means to escape from the business in hand . next , he tells us , what he might answer i● these instances , by saying with good divin● that all immediate propounders or conveyer● of divine revelation in such particular case● need not to be infallible . i am glad to hear of such good divines among them : only i would know why in these particular cases an infallible proposition was unnecessary to faith , if in the general case of all christians it be now become necessary ? but he saith although infallibility be not necessary for young beginners seldom molested with difficulties against saith , yet it is not only convenient but absolutely necessary for others more learned , who often struggle to captivate their understanding , when the high mysteries of christianity are proposed . never was there certainly a more senseless answer : for who are molested with difficulties against faith , if those who are to be converted to christianity are not ? who have none of the advantages of education to recommend the doctrines of christianity to their minds ; and are filled and prepossessed with contrary prejudices . never were there such happy converters of infidels as the jesuits are , if they meet with such converts who are never molested with difficulties against faith ; only as they grow up , they begin to grow infidels again , and then it is necessary to choke them with an infallible church . i do not at all wonder , that the more learned in the church of rome seeing the weakness of the grounds of faith among them do struggle with themselves about believing the mysteries of their faith ; but i very much wonder if so unreasonable a pretence as that of infallibility can ever satisfie them . i desire to know of these more learned believers , whether they believed the churches infallibility before those strugglings or not ? if they did not , how came they to be believers , since there can be no divine faith , without an infallible testimony ? if they did , how came they to question whether they were to believe the particular mysteries of faith , if they did believe the church infallible which proposed them ? but i suppose these learned believers , were such as questioned the infallibility of the church , and christ and his apostles too ; of which sort i doubt not there are many in rome it self . but yet he hath two other ways to solve these difficulties . . by gods special illumination ; and that i hope , may serve all as well as these ; and then let him shew the necessity of an infallible proponent . . that every particular proponent as a member conjoyned with christs infallible oracle may be said to teach infallibly . a most admirable speculation ! and so may every one we meet with in the streets , be infallible not as considered in himself , but as a member conjoyned with truth : or every sectary ; as a member conjoyned with gods word , which i hope is an oracle , altogether as infallible as the church , but the question is , whether such a one may be divided from gods infallible truth or not ? if not , he is absolutely infallible : if he may ; then what security hath any one to rely upon him upon such a conditional infallibility which he can have no assurance of ? but still he hopes to retort the instances upon me : i never saw such a way of retorting in my whole life . my design was to prove by these instances that an infallible testimony of a church was not necessary in order to faith ; he saith i must solve my own difficulties . i confess i see none at all in my way that need to be answered ; for i assert that men may have sufficient grounds of faith without an infallible proponent . well , but he supposes , all these barbarians converted to christ to have had true faith and consequently prudent motives to believe , before they firmly assented to the divine revelation . and so do i too . but what were these motives ? to this question , he saith , i return the strangest answer he ever heard ; for i seem to make the motives inducing to faith nothing but the rational evidence of the truth of the doctrine delivered and therefore i grievously complain that they destroy the obligation which ariseth from the rational evidence of the christian religion ; upon which he discourses , as though by rational evidence the self-evidencing light of the doctrine , and consequently all the miracles wrought by christ and his apostles were to no purpose . have not i reason to applaud my good fortune that i have met with so ingenuous an adversary ? but i see those who write controversies must be true nethinims , not only hewers of difficulties , and drawers of the waters of contention , but bearers of burdens too ; even such , as their adversaries please to lay upon them . could any thing be further from my meaning than by the rational evidence of christianity , to understand the self-evidencing light of the scriptures ? but it is not what i say , but what e. w. finds in his common-place-books ? a little before , when i had proposed an argument he had not met with in those terms , he presently fancied i meant another argu●ent which he found under the title of defectilility of the church , and then in comes that with the answers he found ready to it . now for the rational evidence o● christian religion , he finds not that head in his note-books ; and cannot therefore tell what to make of it . but an argument he had ready against the self-eviden●ing ligh● of the scriptures ; and therefore the seraphims seather must serve instead of st. larence's gridiron . he might have been easily satisfied in that very paragraph , what i mean by the rational evidence of christian religion ; viz. the unquestionable assurance which we have of the matters of fact , and the miracles wrought by christ for confirmation of his doctrine : and this within four lines after the words by him produced . and in the foregoing paragraph , i insist very much on the evidence of sense as to the miracles wrought by christ as a great part of the rational ●vidence of christianity , which is destroyed by the doctrine of the roman church , while transubstantiation is believed in it . for what assurance can there be of any object of sense such as the miracles of christ were and his body after his resurrection ; if we are so framed not only that our senses may be , but we are bound to believe that they are actually deceived in as proper an object of sense as any in the world ? and if such a thing may be false what evidence can we have , when any thing is true ? for if a thing so plain and evident to our senses may be false , viz. that what i and all other men see is bread ; what ground of certainty can we have , but that which my senses and all other mens judge to be false may be true ? for by this means the criterium both of sense and reason is destroyed and consequently all things are equally true and false to us ; and then farewel sense and reason and religion together . these things i there largely insist upon ; which is all very silently passed over , the schools having found no answers to such arguments ; and therefore they must be content to be let alone . but however , though arguments cannot be answered i desire they may not be mis-represented ; and that when i fully declare what i meanby rational evidence , such a sense may not be put upon my words as i never dreamt off . there is nothing after which looks with the face of an answer to the●e instances , unless it be that he saith , that none can have infallible assurance either of our sav●ours miracles , or of any other verity recorded in scripture , independent of some actual living , actual infallible , and most clear evidenced oracle by signs above the force of nature , which in this present state is the church . these are good sayings and they want only proving ; and by the instances already produced , i have shewed that persons did believe upon such evidence , as implied no infallible testimony ; and if he goes about to prove the church infallible by such miracles wrought by her as were wrought by the apostles , i desire only not to believe the church infallible till i be satisfied about these miracles ; but of that afterwards . but i demanded if we can have no assurance of the miracles of christ and his apostles without an infallible church , what obligation can lie upon men to believe them , who see no reason to believe any such infallibility ? and since the articles of our faith are built upon matters of fact such as ●he death and resurrection of jesus christ , whether these matters of fact may not be conveyed down in as unquestionable a manner as any others are ? cannot we have an unquestionable assurance that there were such persons as caesar and pompey , and that they did such and such things , without some infallible testimony ? if we may in such things why not in other matters of fact which infinitely more concern the world to know , than whatever caesar or pompey did ? this his margin calls an unlearned objection , and in the body of his book saith , i might have proposed a wiser question ; an ●asier i grant i might , as appears by the answer he gives it . for two things , he saith , may be considered . . that the man called christ dyed upon the cr●ss , and this , he saith , both jews and gentiles yet assent to upon moral cer●ainty , but therefore do not believe in christ. . that the man called christ dying for us was the only messias , truly god , the redeemer of mankind . here we have , he saith , the hidden verities of christian religion , the certain objects of faith , conveyed unto us by no moral assurance but only upon gods infallible revelation . a very wise answer i must needs say : if intolerable shuffling be any part of wisdom . read over my words again , and be ashamed . if so , then men cannot have any unquestionable assurance that there was such a person as christ in the world , that he wrought such great miracles for confirmation of his doctrine , that he died and rose again . is all this no more than the common consent of jews , gentiles and cbristians that christ died on a cross ? was ever any man so senseless as to make only the belief of the death of christ on the cross , the reason of believing his divinity ? but i say his miracles before and resurrection a●ter gave abundant testimony that he was sent from god , and therefore his doctrine must needs be true ; and when we believe the truth of his doctrine , w● are bound to believe every part of it , such are his being the only messias , the true god , the redeemer of mankind , and all other divine verities contained therein . let the reader now judge whether the objection or the answer savours of more ignorance and folly . but it is the mischief of this school-divinity , that it adds confidence to ignorance , and it makes men then most apt to despise others , when they most expose themselves . i proceeded to shew , that instead of setling faith on a sure foundation by the churches infallibility , they bring it to greater uncertainties than it was in before ; because they can neither satisfie men what that church is , which they suppose infallible , what in that church is the proper subject of this infallibility , what kind of infallibility it is , nor how we should know when the church doth define infallibly : and yet , i say , every one of these questions is absolutely necessary to be resolved in order to the satisfaction of mens minds as to the foundation of their faith. his answer to these questions refers us to his proofs of the roman churches infallibility , as the only society of christians which hath power to define infallibly by her representative moral body ; which when i see proved i shall confess an answer is given to those questions . only one thing he thinks fit to give a more particular answer to ; which is , that this infallibility should be the only foundation of believing all things in religion , and yet so many things and some of them very strange ones must be certainly believed before it . here his common-place-book again fails him , and therefore wanting his compass he roves and wanders from the point in hand . he tells me it is hard to guess at my meaning , for i name not one article thus assented to . perhaps i would say , that the verities revealed in some books of scripture called protocanonical known by their own proper signitures or motives , as the harmony , sanctity , and majesty of the stile , may be believed without this testimony of an infallible church . well , he doth not know what i meant , but he knew an argument , he had an answer ready to ; and therefore that must be my meaning . but are not my words plain enough to any one that reads them ? and what a vast measure of faith , say i , is necessary to believe the papal infallibility ; for unless a man believes the particular roman church to be the catholick church , unless he believes that christ hath promised an infallible assistance to the pastors of the church , and that not as separate , but as assembled in council ; and not in every council , but such as the pope calls and presides in and confirms , he cannot believe this doctrine of infallibility . nay further , he must infallibly believe the church to be infallible , though no infallible argument be brought for it ; that this church doth judicially and authoritatively pronounce her sentence in matters of faith though we know not what that church is which must so pronounce ; that he infallibly know that this particular sentence was so pronounced , though he can have no other than moral means of knowing it ; and lastly , that the infallibility must be the first thing believed , although all these things must be believed before it . could any man well in his senses after reading these words imagine that i meant the self evidencing light of the scriptures again ? but they write for those that believe them , and that never dare look into the books they pretend to consute . yet he hath a mind to prove the name of roman catholick church to be no bull : which i said in a parenthesis , was like german universal emperour : this gives a new start , another common-place head is searched , title , catholick church , there he finds ready the old weather beaten testimonies , rom. . . your faith is renowned the whole world over : ergo roman and catholick are all one . a plain demonstration ! what need they talk of the obscurity of faith , where there is such convincing evidence ? but what if it should have happened that s. paul had said the same thing of the faith of the corinthians , or thessalonians , would it not have been a most evident demonstration that the church of corinth was the catholick church at that time , and was to continue so in following ages ? but scripture though never so plain cannot serve their turn , they must have fathers too . so e. w. brings in st. hierom , st. cyprian , st. athanasius , st. ambrose , all evidently proving that the church of rome was once catholick : and what then i beseech him ? were not other churches so too ? but these very testimonies , as it unhappily falls out , had been particularly and largely examined by me in a whole chapter to that purpose . but it is no matter for that , i had not blotted them out of his note-books , and there he found no answers , and therefore out they come again . § . . . the second thing i objected against this way of resolving faith , was that it did not effect that which it was brought for , for supposing that chuch infallible , and that infallibility proved by the motives of credibility , they do not escape the circle objected against them : which i shewed , . from the nature of divine faith as explained by them . . from the consideration of the persons whose faith was to be resolved . . from the nature of that infallibility which is attributed to the church . i must now consider how e. w. attempts the clearing of these difficulties . . as to the nature of divine faith. i ask whether a divine faith as to the churches infallibility , may be built upon the motives of credibility ? if it may , then a divine faith may rest upon prudential motives , if not , then this way cannot clear them from a circle in the resolution of divine faith. for i demanded why with a divine faith they believe the scriptures to be the word of god ? their answer is , because the church which is infallible delivers them as such to us . if i then ask , why with a divine faith they believe the churches infallibility ? i desired them to answer me if they can any other way than because the scriptures which are infallible say so . it is a very pleasant thing to see how e. w. is miserably put to his shifts about this difficulty , for although in his former discourses he had pressed the necessity of divine faith so much , that from thence he might introduce the necessity of infallibility ; yet he now seems wholly to have forgotten any such distinction , of faith humane and divine ; although he could not but see that the force of my argument did depend upon it . the substance of his answer is , that the first act of faith whereby we believe the churches infallibility relies not on scripture , but upon the church it self , as the most known manisested oracle . be it so : but the question is , whether this first act be divine faith or not ; if not , it is nothing to the purpose , if it be , then divine faith may want an infallible testimony : for this first act of faith concerning the churches infallibility hath nothing to rely upon , but the fallible motives of credibility , and consequently divine faith may want an infallible testimony . and i say still let them answer this if they can ; without apparent shuffling and running away from the question in hand . . from the consideration of the persons whose faith is to be resolved : for i say , . the question is not which way they will prove the insallibility of their church against those who deny it , but which way they resolve their own faith of the churches infallibility . . in disputing against their adversaries they cannot avoid the circle ; for while they prove infallibility from scripture , the question arises how they come to know infallibly , that this is the sense of those places ? for which they must again appeal to the churches infallibility in delivering the sense of scripture : which if it be not a circle , i say , there is hardly such a figure in mathematicks . to this he answers . . that they both resolve and prove ; but then if they do resolve their faith into this infallibility , it is no sufsicient answer to say they only prove it to adversaries : which was all i intended by that first particular . but what answer doth he give to the second concerning tbe sense of scripture ? here again he makes use of his distinction of the first and second act of faith ; the first he saith , is not at all founded upon the sense of scripture , but upon the churches own infallible testimony made by it self and for it self immediately credible . now if we speak , saith he , of another distinct , consequent , and more explicit act of faith , when we believe the churches infallibility upon this ground , that she declares the scriptures genuine sense which proves her an infallible oracle , there is no difficulty at all , because this very exposition or interpretation of scripture is ultimately resolved into ( and therefore again believed upon ) the same infallible authority of the church , or rather upon scripture and the churches interpretation together . for thus joyntly taken they ground faith , and not like two disparate principles , as if we first believed the scriptures sense independently of the churches interpretation , and then again believed the churches interpretation to be infallible , because the sense of scripture known aliunde , or without depending on church authority , saith she is infallible ; this cannot b● if scripture and the churches interpretation indivisibly concur to this latter act of faith , whereof we now speak . here then is a dilemma that clears all and frees us from the least shadow of a circle : we either know ( or believe ) the scriptures sense independently of the churches interpretation , or receive it upon her infallible authority ; grant the first there is no danger of a circle ; grant the latter , there are 〈◊〉 two imaginable propositions to make a circle of , whilst that sense internal to the letter cannot be infallibly propounded otherwise , than by the church . i have set down these words more at large to let the reader try his faculty upon them ; what tolerable sense he can make of them . my objection was plain and easie , they offer to prove the churches infallibility by scripture , at least as to the second act of faith , which is alone pertinent to our purpose ; i asked what way they come to believe infallibly themselves and assure others this is the sense of those places ; and in this case they are forced to return to the churches infalli●ility ; judge now , reader , whether here be not a plain circle because they believe the church infallible because the true sense of scripture saith she is so ; and again they believe this to be the infallible sense of scripture , because the infallible church saith so . no saith e. w. here is not the least shadow of a circle . i would he had told us first what a circle was , and then applyed what he had said to the description given of it . but for all that i can see by his answer he had a mind to amuse his reader by seeming to say something ; but no great matter what . is not that a circle when the argument made use of to prove another thing by , must it self be proved by that very thing , which it is made use of to prove ? for in this case the mind hath nothing to fix it self upon , and therefore must suspend all assent : which must have some certain foundation to proceed upon , on which it may rest it self . as the will could not love physick for the sake of health , if it loved health for the sake of physick , so neither can the understanding assent to one truth for another , if it assent to that other only for the sake of the former . for then the same proposition would be more certain than the other , as it is the antecedent by which the other is proved ; and less certain as it is the consequent proved by the other as it's antecedent : and so in different respects would be more and less certain than it self . let us now apply this to our present case . the thing to be proved is the churches infallibility , the argument to prove it by , is the infallible sense of scripture ; but if the infallible sense of scripture can be proved by nothing but the churches infallible interpretation ; then it is plain that is assumed as an argument to prove infallibility by , which cannot be otherwise known than by this infallibility . now let any man attend to the answer he gives : he saith , there is no difficulty at all in believing the churches infallibility upon this ground , that she declares the scriptures genuine sense which proves her an infallible oracle . no difficulty at all ! nay , that is a little strange , that there should be no difficulty at all in believing the churches infallibility upon the sense of those scriptures , whose sense could not be insallibly known without the supposal of that infallibility , which is to be proved by them . but how comes there to be no difficulty at all in this matter ? because this very exposition or interpretation of scripture brought to its last principle is ultimately resolved into ( and therefore again believed upon ) the same infallible authority of the church , or rather upon scripture and the churches interpretation together . what a strange thing the difference of mens understandings is ! that which he thinks makes it no diffic●lty at all , makes it to me the greatest in the world . for by the exposition or interpretation i suppose he means , the infallible sense of scripture : and if this be resolved into and believed upon the same infallible authority of the church , then i still enquire how this infallible authority of the church comes to be proved by this exposition of scripture the infallibility of which doth suppose the thing to be proved , viz. the churches infallibility . and if the sense internal to the letter cannot be infallibly propounded otherwise than by the church ; i would fain know what assurance any man can have of this sense but from the belief of this infallible interpreter ? but , saith he , scripture and the churches interpretation indivisibly concur to this latter act of faith. this indivisible concurrence , is to me an odd piece of mystical divinity : the meaning must be ( if there be any ) that i believe the church infallibility by those scriptures , from the churches infallibility appearing in the infallible sense of those scriptures . but whence , say i , doth this appear to be the infallible sense of them ? for if the sense of any places of scripture be doubtful , theirs is ; since their meaning is so doubtful , how come men firmly to believe this to be the true and infallible sense of those places and none else ? can men come to an infallible sense of scripture , without an infallible church ? if so , what need of any such infallibility ? if not , then the infallible sense of these places cannot be known but from the churches infallibility : and therefore the circle unavoidably follows , viz. that they must prove the churches infallibility by the infallible sense of scripture , and the infallible sense of scripture by the churches infallibility . and any man might easily guess that e. w. was in a circle by his conjuring , and speaking things which neither he , nor any one else can understand . . i shewed , that they avoided not the circle by this way , from the nature of the infallibility , which they attribute to the church . which is not by an immediate revelation , but but by divine assistance promised in scripture ; and therefore the utmost the motives of credibility can do in this case , is only to notifie or distinguish the church ; but still the formal reason of believing this infallibility , cannot be from those motives , but from those promises which are supposed in scripture to imply it . so that still the circle returns , for they believe the scriptures . infallible because of the churches testimony , and the church infallible because of the promis● of scripture . this he gravely calls , a● unlearned objection . that is even as i● pleases him ; but i have no reason to take him for an infallible judge of learning : how ever it is no great matter , learned o● unlearned , it is more than he gives any tolerable answer to . but i see no reason why he calls it so unless it be , because he saith it is in effect the same objection repeated again . and he thinks a man may be allowed to call his creditor rogu● or rascal , that comes a second time , because he could get no good answer at first . however such is the civility of e. w. that he will not send it away without a sufficient answer ; and yet after all we have nothing for payment but the first general act of faith ; one would have thought it had been the act of publick faith , by the badness of the payment . and this first general act of faith , he saith , w●olly relies upon the churches own infallible testimony , without depending on scripture . but what is this to that divine faith we enquire after , and which , he saith , must rest upon an infallible authority ? for since faith must rest upon its motives , and those motives are confessed to be fallible ; this cannot be that assent of faith , which himself makes to be necessary and we have made appear , notwithstanding all his shusfling , unavoidably brings them into a circle . chap. iii. an enquiry into the miracles of the roman church . § . . the next thing which i objected against this way of resolving faith was that it was notoriously false , viz. that there are the same motives of credibility for the infallibility of the roman church , that there were for the infallibility of moses and the prophets , or of christ and his apostles . the natural consequence i said , of affirming this was , that there is as great danger in not believing the church of rome insallible , as in not believing moses and the prophets , christ and his apostles to have been sent from god. for where there is an equal obligation to believe , there is an equal sin in not believing ; and where the sin is equal , it stands to reason that the punishment should be so too . so that the denial of the roman churches infallibility , must be accounted by them as high a piece of infidelity , as calling in q●estion the infallibility of christ himself ; or denying the scriptures . this doth not in the least startle e. w. for he boldly asserts , that there are equal motives of credibility as to their church and christ and his apostles , he frequently challenges me to shew the disparity , nay he puts the whole issue of his cause upon it . as may be seen by these words of his : the main argument of t. c. he saith was this . as christ and his apostles proved themselves oracles sent from god by their works , signs , and miracles ; again as the primitive christians induced by such signs believed christ and the apostles upon their own testimony to be infallible teachers ; so we having ever had the very like works , signs , and miracles manifest in the church are prudently induced to believe her as an infallible oracle , upon her own infallible testimony . to solve this plain and pressing argument saith e. w. one of these two things must be done : either a disparity is to be given between those first signs and miracles of the apostles , and the later of the church , or it must be shewn wherein the inference made is defective or unconcluding , viz. that the church evidenced by her signs is not proved gods infallible oracle , as the apostles were proved by their signs , to be infallible teachers . afterward he saith , he hath proved that the church hath wrought miracles every way equal with those , which the apostles wrought . in those chapters to which he refers us for the proof of this , i find this assertion in the beginning . i say first , clear and unquestionable miracles of the like quality with those which christ and his apostles wrought , have been ever since most gloriously manifest in the roman-catholick church , and in no other society of christians . afterwards , he calls their miracles , glorious miracles standing upon inslubitable record ; and for the proof of these miracles he appeals to the lives of the saints and certain church-history . besides the testimonies of some fathers of miracles done in their time , not at all to his purpose , ( as shall afterwards appear ) he appeals , to the known miracles of those two admirable saints , blessed st. dominick and the seraphical st. francis , and st. vincentius ferrerius reported by the pious and learned st. antoninus arch-bishop of florence . from whence he infers that the miracles wrought in the roman-catholick church , are not inferiour to those done by the apostles ; and a little after , i● the miracles of christ and the apostles rationally proved against jews and gentiles the credibility of apostolical doctrine , the very like signs and supernatural effects most evident in the roman-catholick church , as rationally prove against sectaries the credibility of our now professed catholick-doctrine ; for which he gives this reason . the same signs and marks of truth when equal in majesty , worth , quality and number , ever discover to reason the same truth : wherefore if the roman-catholick church most clearly gives in evidence of her miracles equal in worth , quality and number with those wrought by christ and his apostles , it follows that as those first apostolical wonders were sufficient to convice jews and gentiles of the truth of christianity , so these later also wrought in the church are of like force , and no less efficacious to convince sectaries of whatever doctrine she teaches . now ponder well what the apostoles did ; they cured the sick , dispossed devils , raised the dead , converted nations , &c. but these very miracles have been done in the roman-catholick church , yea and greater too . ergo , we have the like evidence of truth in both the primitive age and this , consequently with it the same truth . the sequel is undeniable . after this , for particular instances , he appeals to the undeniably authentick monuments and testimonies of that one sacred house of loreto ; to the continual miracles done at the reliques of st. james at compostella in spain , to the sacred vial of st. mary magdalen in france , wherein , saith he very gravely , the precious blood gathered by that penitent saint at our saviours passion is yet preserved , and visibly boyls up on the very day he suffered after the reading of the passion ; to the undoubted miracles wrought by the intercession of our blessed lady at montaigu , for which he calls in the testimonies of lipsius and putean , and at large relates a miracle wrought by st. xaverius upon f. marcellus a jesuit at naples ; and then answers some few objections and concludes with the vindication of the miracle at zaragosa in spain . this is the substance of e. w's discourse upon this subject ; which in the proper consequence of it doth more really enervate the proofs of christianity , than establish the infallibility of the roman church . for i do not think an atheist would desire more advantage against the christian religion , than to have it granted that the miracles of christ and his apostles were no other than such as are wrought in the roman church ; and that the proofs of them are no more authentick and undeniable than those of the miracles done at loreto , compostella , or montaigu : and that christ and his apostles gave no more illustrious evidences of their being sent from god than st. dominick , or st. francis ; and that there was no greater evidence of christs resurrection from the dead than there is of the boyling up of the blood of christ in the vial of st. mary magdalen in the church of st. maximin in france . therefore not only to invalidate the testimony drawn from hence for the roman churches infallibility , but to preserve the honour of christianity , i am obliged to enquire into these two things . . whether the testimony upon which the miracles of christ and his apostles , and those of the roman church are delivered be equally credible ? . whether the miracles of the roman church be so equal ( to abate him what he saith of greater ) in worth , quality and number with those of christ and his apostles , that the roman churches infallibility is as much attested by them , as christ and his apostles was by theirs ? . i shall enquire into the credibility of the testimony on both sides . two things are agreed to make up sufficient credibility in a testimony ; viz. the knowledge and fidelity of the persons who deliver it . if they speak nothing but what they were certain witnesses of , and never gave suspicion of fraud and deceit , and offered the highest ways of proof concerning their own fidelity , then it is an unreasonable thing to disbelieve them . this is the case of those who recorded our saviours and his apostles miracles , they were persons who either saw them wrought themselves , or had them delivered to them immediately by them who saw them ; they published them to the world in that age wherein they werecapable of being disproved by persons then living in the same places where they were wrought , and were notorious enemies to the persons who did them , who were concerned to discover for their own justification the least fraud or imposture in those matters . but besides this to take away all suspicion of design , the ●nesses of these things freely quitted all ex●ectations of worldly advantages , they ran themselves upon the greatest hazards to attest the truth of what they said , and at last sacrificed their lives to confirm the truth of their own testimony . but on the other side if i can prove , . that the greatest number of the miracles in the roman church have been believed upon the credit of fables and uncertain reports . . that the testimony of those who deliver them hath been contradicted by men of greater authority than themselves . . if upon strict and careful examination notorious forgeries and impostures have been discovered ; and never any persons laid down their lives to attest the truth of any of their miracles ; then it can be nothing but the greatest impudence in any to parallel the testimony of the primitive church concerning the miracles of christ and his apostles , with that of the miracles wrought in the church of rome . . that the greatest number of miracles in the roman church have been believed upon the credit of fables and uncertain reports . for the proof of this i shall make choice of his own instances of loreto in italy , compostella in spain , st. maximins church in france , and the lives of his two admirable saints to which i shall add some nearer home that we may have a proof of the credibility of these miracles in the most considerable places of europe . § . . let us first go on pilgrimage to our lady of loreto , to view the undeniably authentick publick monuments and testimonies of miracles there wrought . the first to be seen there , in a table hanging up for that purpose , is , the wonderful miracle in the translation of that chappel first from nazareth to dalmatia , and from dalmatia into those parts of italy where it now stands . the story cannot be better told , than it is in the authentick table it self : which may be thus translated . the church of our b. lady of loreto was a chamber of the house of the b. virgin mary mother of our lord jesus christ which house stood in the country of judea , in a city of galilee whose name was nazareth ; in which chamber the b. virgin mary was born , and bred up , and afterwards there received the salutation of the angel gabriel , and in the same chamber she educated her son jesus christ to the age of twelve years . after the ascention of christ to heaven the virgin mary remained upon earth with the apostles and other disciples of christ who seeing many divine mysteries performed in the said chamber , did by the common consent of them all decree , to make a church of that chamber to the honour and memory of the b. virgin mary , which they did , and the apostles and disciples consecrated that chamber to be a church , and there celebrated divine offices , and st. luke the evangelist with his own hands made an image to the likeness of the b. virgin , which is there to this day . afterwards that church was inhabited and honoured with much devotion by the christian people in those parts in which it stood as long as the people remained christian. but after they renounced the christian faith and embraced mahometism the angels of god took away the said church and carried it into the parts of sclavonia and there placed it by a certain castle called fiume ; where it met not with that honour which the b. virgin desired . therefore the angels came and took it from thence and carried it clear over the sea into the parts of the territory of recanati , and there placed it in a wood which belonged to a noble lady who had the command of the city of recanati , and was owner of the wood whose name was loreta , and from her the church took its name of st. maria de loreto . in that time by reason of the great concourse of all people to that wood in which the church remained abundance of robberies and mischiefs were committed there ; and therefore the angels again took up the chappel and carried it to a hill belonging to two brothers where the angels set it down ; these brothers getting a vast revenew by the resort of pilgrims thither and the oblations by them made , fell to a great discord . upon which the angels came again and took away the chappel from that place , and carried it into the high-way ; and there placed it where it is now , with many signs and innumerable gifts and miracles . then all the people of recanati went to see the church which stood upon the earth without any foundation : and being astonished at such a miracle , and fearing left it should come to ruine , they compassed it about with a good thick wall and a strong foundation as it i● seen at this day , and yet no one knew , from whence that church came into those parts , until in a. d. . the blessed virgin appeared in a dream to a certain ma● much devoted to her , to whom she revealed the foregoing things , and he presently divulged them to certain honest men of that country : who immediately resolved to know the truth of these matters ; and therefore determined to send sixteen notable good men to nazareth , to find out the truth of them . who carried with them the measure of the said church , and there they found exactly the foundations of it and the just measure ; and to make all sure , they found it written upon a wall that such a church had been there and was gone from thence , and these persons upon their return certified the truth of all these things ; and from that time it was known that that chappel was the chamber of the blessed virgin mary , and the christian people shewed great devotion towards it : for the blessed virgin there every day , doth infinite miracles as experience shews . there was a certain eremite that was called brother paul of the wood , who dwelt in a small cottage in that wood , and every morning went to divine offices in that chappel , and w●s a man of a great abstinence and a holy lif● , who said , that ten years before or thereabouts on the day of the nativity of the blessed virgin b●ing the th . of september , two hours before day in a clear air going out of his cottage towards the church he saw a light descend from heaven upon the church twelve ●oot long , and six broad , and when it was upon the church it vanished ; upon which he said it was the blessed virgin , which there appeared on the day of her nativity , and came to see her feast observed ; but no man saw her besides this holy man. to confirm the truth and certainty of all these things , two honest men of this village reported them several times to me teremanus the over-seer and governour of the said church : one of them was called paulus renaldatii , the other francis prior. the said paul told me that his grandfathers grandfather saw when the angels carried the said chappel over the sea and placed it in the wood , and that he and other persons oftimes went to the said chappel . and the said francis oftimes said to me that his grandfather being one hundred and twenty years old , said that he went often to the said church in the wood. moreover the said francis averred that his grandfathers grandfather had a house and dwelt there : and that in his time the chappel was removed by angels from the hill of the two brothers to the high-way . deo gratias . imprinted at venice by benedictus de bindonis a. d. . in the italian copy it is only added , that this narration was taken out o● an original authentick m. s. belonging to the said chappel march . a. d. . and is not this a very pleasant story to be matched in point of credibility with the miracles of christ and his apostles ? what do these men think in their hearts of christian religion ; that dare avouch such ridiculous fictions as these are , and impose them on the credulity of mankind ? but we are not to imagine this to be only a legend hung up at loreto , for the comfort of devout pilgrims ; but it is delivered in the same manner , by men who should have had more wit , or more honesty . cardinal baronius in his annals , cannot let it escape , but relates the miraculous translation of this chappel from nazareth to dalmatia , from thence to loreto much after the same way . all the argument ●e brings for the truth of it , is taken from gods omnipotency , as though , as is. casau●on truly answers him , all the rabbinical and mahumetan fables might not be believed on the same ground . and he observes from some of the fathers , that gods omnipotency is the sanctuary of hereticks , whither they betake themselves when they are basfled with reason . but baronius refers us to canisius for a fuller account of this admirable story ; who very wisely brings the stories of the prophet elias , habakkuk , and : philip in the acts to confirm the truth of this ; as though the dispute were whether god could do it , and not whether the thing were really done ? but if we offer to question whether the holy angels are ever employed in the carrying houses ( not on their shoulders i suppose , but their wings ) he chokes us presently , with the angels , being said to be ministring spirits for the heirs of salvation ; as though it were no● possible for them to discharge that office faithfully ; unless at some time or other , they took away an old house from its foundations , and mounted it into the air , and conveyed it above two thousand miles . is not this notable service to the heirs of salvation ? the latter writers , such as raynaldus , bzovius , spondanus , and benedic●●● gononus refer us to horatius tursellinus as the most authentick historian of this stupendous miracle : and his book was not only approved by the general of his order , but hath a bull of clement . prefixed before it . the substance of his story is the very same with the table of teremanus , only inlarged with some more improbable circumstances , as that the trees made lowly reverences and bowed themselves to the chappel in its passage ; ( but it seems they bowed so low that they could never recover themselves after ; being i suppose of great age when they made this obeysance ) that , when the new wall was built for the support of the chappel ; the walls of it would not endure the others being too near , but made the new wall by degrees know its due distance , so that at last a boy might be put in between them : that the image of our saviour being taken out to be set in a more conspicuous place , it went of its own accord into the chappel again , so that after several attempts they were fain to give over their design . i confess these circumstances do not tend much to the making the story it self more credible ; but what authority hath tursellinus found out for so strange a miracle ? he often quotes hieronynius angelita , but he writ in clement the sevenths time , and dedicated his history of that chappel to him ; but the main prop of all this story is the tradition of loreto , and the table of teremanus , whom he highly commends for his integrity and prudence , who was governour of the chappel in the time of pius . about the year . and to his testimonies tursellinus appeals for proof of the matter of fact . and was ever so great a miracle better attested than this ? we will out of meer kindness , set aside the testimony from visions and dreams ; but then could we imagine any thing less than that some persons of credit who had seen the chappel in its march over the sea , were resolved to observe , where such a chappel in the air would at last fix it self ; or that some that saw it pitched upon the ground without any foundations , should presently fill the country with the noise of it , as such strange things are very apt to do ; and that such witnesses being strictly examined should have left a deposition written by them for the satisfaction of future ages . in stead of which we have two plain countrymen brought in to give testimony to a thing done in the time of their grandfathers grandfathers : neither do they both give testimony to the same thing ; but one of them saith , his grandfathers grandfather ( not his grandfather as tursellinus hath it ) saw the chappel , while it was in the air carried by angels over the sea. is not this a substantial witness , that attests what his grandfathers grandfather saw , without any other evidence of it , than that he heard so ? tursellinus saith , that it was not only to teremanus that they attested this by word , but they did swear to it : which adds very much to their credit considering the nature of their testimony ; but methinks teremanus himself should not have forgotten that . all the force of this testimony lies upon one man , who is reported by his great grandchild to have seen the chappel carryed by angels over the sea. but suppose he did see something moving upon the sea , while he was cutting wood , or feeding his cattle in the fields of la marca di ancona ; was he sure it was the chappel of loreto : did he see the angels carrying it ? might not a plain countryman mistake a little about the colour and shape of angels ? might not a ship under sail in the adriatick gulf be taken by such a man for a house carryed by angels with white wings ? are such miracles so little regarded by the people of italy , that no proof could be produced for it , but what two affidavit-men said , that they had heard what their ancestors almost two hundred years before had seen or heard ? is it possible the memory of such a miracle should be so near being quite lost ? were there no writers in that age to record it and take notice of it ? is it credible so great a miracle should happen in those days and neither dante 's nor petrarch , nor boccace take the least notice of it , although they were all italians , and inquisitive men , and had sufficient occasion in their writings to mention it ? but suppose , these men were not apt to believe such things ; what shall we say to st. antonin of florence , whom e. w. calls a pious and learned man , who hath written such a rapsody of all sorts of miracles , and lived a good while after this miraculous translation and yet takes not the least notice of it ? what shall we say to that admirable saint , st. vincentius ferrerius , as e. w. calls him , who lived after a. d. . who saith , that the chamber of our lady was still in nazareth ? and although the former are negative testimonies , yet they cannot be rejected by such who make use of the same kind of testimonies to cast off a matter of fact attested by much better authors than paulus renaldatii , franciscus prior , or petrus georgius teremanus . and that is in the story of pope joan , wherein baronius saith , that thesilence of so long time after it , wherein there was a just occasion to mention it was more than a thousand witnesses to prove the faisity of it . and if silence be a thousand witnesses on their side , i hope it may be at least five hundred on ours . but tursellinus offers to bring all the testimonies which were to be had ; the first , is blondus who was secretary to eugenius the th . about the year . a good competent time after the miracle was said to be wrought . yet a●l that blondus saith is only , that there was a famous chappel of our lady at loreto , as appeared by the many oblations there made , but not one word of the miraculous translation . the poet mantuan saith , he read the table hanging up in the chappel ; and no wonder if he found the story fit for a poets brain to work upon . leander albertus speaks home , but he comes much too late to give any testimony , having published his description of italy a. d. . but leander seems to rely most upon the miracles there wrought as an evidence of the chappels miraculous translation ; and the proof of those miracles depends upon the tables hung up in the chappel ; which i suppose are e. w's . undeniable and authentick testimonies § . . therefore instead of pursuing farther this incredible fiction of the translation of this chappel from nazareth to dalmatia and so to loreto , by any scrupulous enquiries , how such a chamber or part of a house should be able to hold for above one thousand six hundred years without decay : how at nazareth it should escape being destroyed when josephus and dion say all the country thereabout was burnt and destroyed by the romans , fifty castles and nine hundred eighty five towns being consumed by trajan after the strange devastation made by vespasian ? how the church of the anuncia●ion at nazareth should be removed to italy and yet remain still at nazareth by the constant tradition of the eastern parts ? how the measure should be found exactly agreeing by those sent to examine it , when thomas de novariâ saith , that he lately found out the only true foundations larger than the angels chappel there built ? these and several other scruples i shall now let alone ; and consider the other undeniably authentick monuments and testimonies of this sacred house of loreto . turs●llinus mentions one which he saith , is so well attested that it is a sin to doubt of it : and is very well worth our reading that we may see what rare stories are paralled'd with the miracles of christ and his apostles . a certain priest of dalmatia being hugely devoted to the blessed virgin of loreto , was taken prisoner by the turks ; who would have forced him to renounce his religion , which he would by no means hear of ; but still called upon christ and mary ; they being enraged at him asked of him what he meant to use those names so much ; he told them they stuck to his very entrails ; upon which they threatened that they would pull out his entrails if he did not immediately curse them both . which they resolving to do , the poor priest made a vow to the blessed virgin of loreto , that if he lived he would go in pilgrimage thither . at which they being more enraged cut open his breast and pulled out all his entrails , and gave them into his hand being now ready to sink , and bid him go and carry them to the lady of loreto . the priest presently goes on his way , and after many days journey , comes safe to loreto , having his entrails in his hand . whereever he came great flocking of people there was about him , ( as we may easily imagine ) and to our ladies servants here he shews his naked breast , and his entrails taken out ; and after having offered up his devotions to the blessed virgin , in the sight and embraces of her he breathed his last . is not this a swinging miracle ; and deserving credit beyond those of christ and his apostles ? to ask how a man could breath without his lungs , or live without a heart , or by what vessels the circulation of blood was then performed ? or any such untoward questions , were but to gratifie carnal reason too much , where nothing is required but meer faith. and such men have certainly great store of that or rather of folly and impudence , that can dare to call these legends by the name of authentick monuments or undeniable testimonies . this is a very hopeful beginning in the search into these monuments ; but i have several things further to object , against this way of proving miracles by tables that are hung up in such places as the chappel of loreto is . . that any extraordinary accident that befalls a person , if he either chanced to think upon the blessed virgin of loreto , or pray to her , or at least tell those so , who are concerned to have it believed , this immediately passes for a miracle . there are very few persons in the world but at sometime or other of their lives do meet with extraordinary deliverances , either from diseases , or other dangers . if any of these , had lived in those parts and had been possessed with the same superstitious follies , immediately any such passage of their lives , if they had gone to loreto after it and there acquainted the poenitentiary or confessor with it , it had been entred into the tables , and had been preserved ( as a tooth-drawer doth teeth ) for the reputation of the place . the far greatest part of the miracles mention'd by tursellinus are of this kind . the first miracle , by his own consession which brought the church of loreto into reputation was the cure of pius the second who being troubled with the gout , and a fever , and a cough , prayed to the lady of loreto for his recovery , ( not meerly to go to ancona , but as the inscription expresseth it on the cup he sent to loreto , that he might be freed from his diseases and recover sound health ) and tursellinus tells us , that he did not fail of his hope in any part ; for immediately , saith he , his feaver went off , his cough left him and his limbs recovered strength ; and away he goes for ancona and there dies of his feaver and consumption . call you this a miracle ? i know not what kind of miracles the lady of loreto works ; i am sure christ and his apostles never wrought such . we use to say that a miracle is a perfect work ; and is dying of a disease a miraculous cure ? platina and ciacconius in his life take no notice of a cure , much less of a miracle , but say that upon some intermission he undertook his journey where he dyed of his disease . yet tursellinus saith , the fame of this cure brought great reputation to the lady of loreto : which till that time ( viz. for one hundred and sixty years after the miraculous translation ) was known only among the inhabitants of the country about ancona ; and scarce the least knowledge of it was passed into the neighbour countries , which is the reason he gives why vincentius , antoninus , and the italian writers take no notice of it : and those who did , as blondus , yet do not mention the translation , lest they should seem to utter vain and incredible things . a very substantial reason i confess . but after this time miracles grew more frequent , as the superstition and credulity of people did increase . if a man recovered of a dangerous sickness , if julius the second escape being shot by a cannon bullet , if clement the seventh escape with his life in the sacking of rome , if others are delivered from great dangers either by sea or land , in what way or kind so ever it be , if they do but send or go to loreto afterwards , all these are there recorded for miracles . . that this way of testimony is liable to the greatest exceptions . for , the priests who make these tables are easily abused by the confident affirmation of persons who come and tell them great stories of miracles wrought at the invocation of the lady of loreto ; as in all likelihood riera the poenitentiary of loreto was , by many who came to him , who were persons of no reputation at all . as the jew that told the formal story , of his being delivered at nazareth out of prison , by calling upon his countrywoman , the lady of loreto ; who thereupon appeared to him with her woman called lucia waiting upon her , ( whom she bid to knock off his chains , ) and opened the prison doors and led him to the sea side , and shewed him a ship ready for his passage , and bid him make hast to loreto and be there baptized . and we may think he obeyed her will , for he told riera , that he came to ancona in two days . yet this man was received with great joy and the miracle highly magnified ; and which was more , for all that we can find , verily believed . and no doubt the venetian courtesan was a person of great credit , who having spent many years in that trade , came to loreto full of a very strange miracle , viz. that she was set upon in her way thither by her companion , who desperately wounded her in many places and cut her throat ; and she just in the very nick of expiring called upon the lady of loreto for help ; who presently appeared to her and took her in her lap and stroked her wounds and immediately cured her body , and filled her soul with heavenly joy. was not the blessed virgin very kind to a courtesan ? but all this was presently believed at loreto ; and as an impregnable evidence of the truth of it , she shewed a shining list about her neck upon the skin ; which was a demonstration she was healed by a divine hand . for st. winifred and others had just such a one when their heads were joyned to their bodies again . and are not these authentick testimonies and undeniable monuments ? is the testimony of the whole christian church to be compared to that of a jew and a courtesan ? but supposing the persons who delivered these things to them were such as had a great credit ; ( and so they had need to be when the reputation of a miracle depends upon their single testimony , ) yet is it not possible to suppose that the priests for the reputation of their house , may help out a lame miracle with an advantagious circumstance or two ? it being for so good a cause as the honour of their church . especially when such infinite riches come by it , as may be seen by tursellinus his history of the lady of loreto ; whose book is made up of miracles and riches : and in truth the greatest miracle there is the riches of that chappel since it gained reputation in the world. they had need of a very untainted credit , to have their testimony taken on their bare words , when there is such a reward for lying . men need not ask cassius his question cui bono ? for any one may easily discern that , that compares the tables of miracles and the vast riches accruing by them together . the honest heathens thought a persons testimony was then to be relyed upon ; when there was no reward for falsehood . cum sunt praemia fals● nullae , ratam debet testis habere fidem . tacitus thought , it was a good argument of mens fidelity , if they affirmed a thing postquam nullum mendacio pretium ; when there was no advantage to be got by it . but i am sure this can never hold in these authentick testimonies of the miracles of the roman church ; rich jewels , silver shrines , presents of all sorts , and vast endowments may tempt men to strain a little in such trifles , as a few circumstances , which can easily change an ordinary accident into a miracle , nay persons of great honour and reputation , ( beyond ten thousand such priests whose interest is so deeply concerned in the belief of these things , ) have affirmed that they have seen tables hanging up in one of the churches mentioned by e. w. of a miraculous cure wrought upon a lame person , whom themselves have seen immediately aster , so lame as to use crutches . therefore i hope such testimonies as these , for meer shame , will never more be compared with the miracles of christ and his apostles : who had no diana's to attend upon , nor expected any silver shrines . not that i compare the blesfed virgin to a heathen goddefs , but i may safely enough , the nature and reward of the attendance on both , and the means to draw riches to their temples . can any one imagine if all the miracles of christ and his apostles had been done in this manner , and the testimony of them only taken from tables hanging upon walls , that ever christianity would have prevailed upon the ingenuous part of mankind ? no , it was because these miracles were wrought publickly by christ and his apostles in the view of enemies ; and they who attested them did not fit to receive presents and tell tales , but ventured their lives as well as fortunes , to give testimony to the truth of these things ; and offered as much satisfaction as sense and reason could require in these matters . but if they had nothing to shew but tables hanging upon the walls of their temples ; the heathens would have told them , they had as good evidence for miracles among them . for . such authentick testimonies as these have been among the greatest enemies to christianity . and i hope e. w. will not say that christianity hath no better proofs than paganism . if we search but a little into the practices of this nature among the heathens , we shall find that polydore virgil had reason of his side , when he said this custom of hanging up tables , was taken from them : among whom nothing was more usual than upon any extraordinary deliverance to set up their votivae tabulae in the temples of those gods they were most addicted to : some to isis , some to neptune , some to aesculapius , especially in the case of escape from shipwrack to isis and neptune ; and in case of recovery from dangerous diseases to isis or aesculapius . lambin saith , the very same custom continues still , only instead of the heathen gods they do it to the virgin mary or some saint . this custom is mentioned not only by horace , but by virgil , ovid , tibullus , juvenal , persius , and others . and all know the saying of dionysius upon seeing these tables of those who had made vows and escaped ; but what is become saith he , of those who made vows and were drowned ? and the very same question may be asked of these modern vows as well as theirs . i shall only mention the tables of those who had , as they thought , miraculous deliverances from sicknesses ; of which kind there are so many in the tables of loreto and elsewhere . it is a remarkable testimony to this purpose which diodorus siculus gives of isis in egypt : where he saith of her , that being now advanced to immortality , she takes great delight in the cure of men ; and that to any who de●ire her help she manifests her presence to them in sleep ( as it is in very many of those of loreto ) and her great readiness to help them . for the proof of which they do not bring fables as the greeks do ; but the evidence of matters of fact ; or undeniable authentick testimonies . for the whole world bears witness to it by the honors they give her , and the presents they s●nd for the cures they have received . for many have been strangely cured by her help , who have been given over by physitians , and and many blind and lame have been healed by her . let e. w. produce more authentick testimonies than these are : if he thinks so much credit to be given to these tables , or any argument can be drawn from a catholick reputation , or great presents . neither was this only in egypt , but tibullus mentions the same at rome too speaking of isis. nunc dea nunc succurre mihi , nampossé mederi picta docet templis multa tabella tuis . the same may be seen in the temples of aesculapius , especially that of epidauru● , of which strabo speaks , and saith , it was full of the tables of such as had recovered from diseases by his help , as likewise were his temples at co and tricca . the like may be observed of the temple of aesculapius near rome in the isle of tyber , of which some of the tables have been preserved in rome by the maphaei and are published by mercurialis . and cicero speaking of an image of ceres at enna in sicily ; saith , that many prodigies were done by her , which shewed her power and divinity ; that in many most difficult cases persons have found her help ; and not only the sicilians but other nations flock th ther : and that the statue of hercules was in so great esteem there that his very chin was worn , with the salutations which were given him ; to the same purpose as tursellinus somewhere speaks of the image at loreto . so that the arguments drawn from the tables , from general reputation , and the concourse of people will equally hold for a religion directly opposite to christianity . but we have not followed any cunningly devised fables , the proofs of our religion do not depend upon the fraud of priests , or the superstition and credulity of the people , nor upon any extraordinary accidents and rare occurrences ; but the miracles of christ and his apostles were publick and frequent , wrought by their own words while they were conversant among men ; not at shrines or altars , or in dark andobscure places , and only among persons prepossessed before hand with sufficient readiness to believe what ever shall be related as a miracle . these are the circumstances of the miracles wrought in the roman church , but as vastly different from those of christ and his apostles , as light is from darkness , or truth from uncertain reports , or a well grounded faith from superstitious credulity . and thus much for the authentick testimonies of miracles in the sacred house of loreto . § . . having performed one pilgrimage , we must begin another to st. james of compostella : and there take notice of the miracles done at his relicks there . but what if st. james have no relicks at all there ? what if he never were in spain , how can his relicks there ever then perform any miracles ? but what ever we believe , it is infidelity in spain to question it ; it is fit therefore we should have the story as they relate it , who think they should know it best : and it is this , that james the son of zebedee having passed through judea and samaria came into spain to preach the gospel , and having converted some there , he returned to hierusalem carrying his disciples with him ; where he was slain by agrippa , and his body afterwards was carried to compostella where it is solemnly worshipped by pilgrims flocking thither from all parts of the world. this is the substance of what the present roman breviary allows ; and is truly more kind to the story than it hath been formerly ; for i am much mistaken , if clement the th . did not insert into his breviary , that he came into spain according to the tradition of that ●rovince . for we must know the court of rome hath been very jealous of such pretences as those are of receiving the faith at first from any of the apostles , besides st. peter or those sent by him , lest under such a pretence they might one time or other plead for their exemption from the popes authority . this made cardinal baronius so much to set himself against this tradition of st. james his preaching in spain ; and disproves it from the testimony of rodericus ximenius arch-bishop of toledo , who in the lateran council under innocent the third , denied that ever st. james came into spain , and that not unadvisedly ; but in a solemn debate between him and the bishop of compostella . he consesses indeed that when he was a boy he heard the story of it , but it was only from some religious women saith baronius , some nuns and religious widows , saith rodericus himself ; but as baronius observes , he did not think it worth inserting into his history ; and the bishop of compostella could not produce one ancient author for that tradition , though he came provided to the council for the managing this debate . besides , he saith , that the church of compostella could then boast but of the antiquity of one hundred and nine years , ( one hundred wanting nine saith baronius ) for then pope calistus translated the bishoprick of merida to compostella , before which there was only a small oratory there . to this testimony he adds two popes innocent the first , and gregory the seventh affirming that spain first received the faith from rome . but the present breviary hath excellently accommodated this difference ; by making seven of st. james his disciples to be ordained by st. peter at rome and thence sent into spain . this it is to serve a turn , though it be without the least pretence from antiquity ! but now is not this tradition of st. james his being in spain confirmed by undeniable and authentick testimonies ? what shall we say then to the miracles wrought by him ? for we are to consider although the story be so lean and bare in the present brevia●y , yet the learned and worthy arch-bishop st. antonin ( besides others ) have it much improved . for he tells us , how st. james after his return to judea , was much opposed by hermogenes a magician who sent his disciple philetus to confound him : ( we must never ask from whence they had this story it is fully enough that the name of hermogenes and philetus are in the new testament . ) well , philetus becomes a disciple of st. james , at which hermogenes was so enraged that he enchanted him so that he could not move . n●w we will see , saith he , if st. james can release you . philetus send● word to st. james , who sent him his hand . kerchief and by that was released . hermogenes commands the devils to bring st. james and philetus both bound to him ; when they came near him the devils cryed out they were bound by angels of heaven and beg'd st. james to release them ; be did so , and commanded them to bring hermogenes bound , which they immediately did with his hands tyed behind him ; and then st. james bid philetus unbind him ; at which hermogenes was desirous to turn christian ; but being asraid of the devils he craved s. james his assistance , who lent him his walking staff ; and so he became his disciple . is not this now like one of the apostles miracles to give men instruments for the cudgelling of devils ? but this miracle for all that , hastened st. james his end ; for abiathar the high-priest ( where are we now ? for i remember no abiathar high priest since the days of king solomon ; but it is no matter for such a slender mistake as that : ) raised a commotion among the people , and brought him to herod who beheaded him , upon the day in which christ was incarnated and suffered , one whole year being passed . that 's well again ; it seems st. james in a years time , preached through judea and samaria , and went into spain and returned to judea and was there beheaded by herod . but st. james suffered the same year , that st. peter was delivered out of prison , which by the consent of their own writers , was not till the second year of claudius . a pretty long year from the eighteenth of tiberius according to baronius , to the second of claudius ! to pass by josias the scribes suffering together with st. james ; ( which the acts of the apostles , by reason of the insufficiency of scripture , take no notice of ) we are to understand , that the disciples of st. james , ( being then so much at leisure to attend the corpse of their master so long a journey ) took away his body and carried it to the sea-side where they found a small vessel lying ready ( no matter to whom it belonged ) into this they entred and committing themselves to gods providence and the mercy of the sea ; they came safe to the coast of spain , and entring the city of compostella they there buried his body in a church erected to his honour ( no matter by whom for all st. james his disciples went away with him . ) yet this was not easily performed , for there was one queen lupa in the country at that time ; ( how a queen in a roman province ! but doubtless she was some roman lady , for i think romulus his nurse was of that name . ) and there were miracles to be wrought to convince her to give way to his burial . here st. antonin gives over ; but others are so kind as to tell us what the miracle was which convinced queen lupa : i shall not so much as once mention the author of the golden legend ( though a person that highly merited of the church of rome in his time : ) having so much better authorities . no less a man than john beleth ( a grave doctor of the sorbon , a man of great learning saith trithemius , and excellent at confounding hereticks saith laurimanus ) who gives this account of it , that queen lupa cast these men into prison , but being miraculously delivered thence she proposed this condition to them ; that if they would take such oxen as she should give them , they should carry the body whether they pleased . but she designed only to put atrick upon them , the oxen being very wild and unruly ; but she was over-reached in all her cunning , for they only made the sign of the cross over the oxen and they were as quiet as lambs : and they carried the body to the place appointed , and without any driver went back to the queens palace and staid not till they came to the very middle of it ; at which miracle queen lupa was turned into a lamb and turned her palace into a church . is not this now a miracle as great and as well attested , as any wrought by christ or his apostles ? the first part of this story about hermogenes and abiather the high-priest , was solemnly read here in england on the twenty fifth of july as part of the lessons of the day : and the later confirmed by vincentius in his history . bivarius cites about twenty spanish breviaries that mention st. james his coming into spain ; but whether with the relation of these miracles i know not . mariana in his history , finds no argument for his coming into spain but the tradition of the people , which he was unwilling to contradict . it 's true , in a discourse on purpose he goes about to defend this tradition , as well as he could ; but y●t confesses there is a wonderful silence in all ancient writers about st. james his coming into spain , and his bodie being at compostella ; both in the chronicon alveldense above , years old , in the chronicon of alphonsus the great above . years old ; in isidorus pacensis , sampirus asturicensis , nay in the ancient history of compostella it self , there is not a word of st. james his coming into spain : in his answer to this argument he confesses they have no histories come near that time , and therefore it is no wonder they should not mention it ; but upon what grounds came it afterwards to be believed then , if they have no testimony of ancient time to confirm it ? for baronius lays down an excellent rule as to these matters ; whatever is delivered by later authors concerning matters of antiquity , and is not confirmed by the authority of some ancient writer is contemned . and by this rule in all these matters , let us stand or fall . but supposing st. james never were in spain , yet his reliques might be carried thither , and work miracles there ? no one questions the possibility of the thing , but the reason of believing it , and we have hitherto seen very little for one or the other . baronius , whose zeal carried him no farther than the popes interest , is willing enough to allow them the body of st. james at compostella : and that it was carried from jerusalem thither , but yet , he saith , the memory of it was quite lost , as he proves by venantius fortunatus : till at last it was discovered by a miraculous light in the time of alphonsus castus . but what was discovered by that light ? a body buried among bushes and thorns ? and what then ? must this needs be st. james his body and none else ? what characters were there upon it , which might discover it more plainly than the light did ? no inscription on it is alledged ; but after all baronius thinks , there is no need to prove that which is so abundantly attested by the miracles there wrought . proceed we then to the examination of these miracles , of which pope callistus the second wrote a whole book , which mariana saith he saw entire , but by what is preserved of it , we may judge it was a very worthy one , and that the miracles there wrought deserve to be compared with those of christ and his apostles . he tells us , that from a child he loved st. james of compostella , and spent fourteen years in going from place to place to learn his miracles , and that he put them together in loose papers which were miraculously preserved among thieves , in prison , in water , in fire , and at last by a vision was confirmed that his work was pleasing to god : therefore he desires that no body would despise his work , for whatever is written in it is authentick and confirmed by great authority ; and decrees that the miracles should be read in the refectories on festival days . he could not have decreed better , for in truth they are an excellent entertainment . in a. d. . saith calixtus , certain germans were going to st. james , and in the city of tholouse , they were made drunk by their host , who put two silver cups into the portmantues of two of them : next morning he ran after them and cried thieves ; they knowing their own innocency desired to be examined ; the cups were found in the porlmantues of father and son : the judge determined that but one of them should be hanged , and after much complementing between them the son was executed ; the father goes on his pilgrimage , and after thirty six days returning by the place he goes to the body of his son , and there wept bitterly over him . on a sudden his son b●gan to comfort him , and said , o my father weep not , but rejoyce , for i never was so well in my whole life . for to this time st. james h●th supported me , and comforted me with heavenly pleasure ; at which his father being overjoyed ran to the city , and the people flocking thither took him down safe and sound , and hanged up the host in his room . was our saviours raising lazarus after only four days , to be compared to this ? in the year . a certain french man , av●iding the mor●ality then in france , resolved to go in pilgrimage with his wife and children to st. james of compostella ; at pampelona his wife dyed and the host seized upon his beast and his mony. the man went on however with his children ; and at the towns end one meets ●im with an ass which he lends him to carry his children . when he was come to compostella one night as he was praying st. james appeared to him and asked him if he knew him ; he told him no ; then he said i am james the apostle who met thee at pampelona and lent thee my ass ; and now i lend him thee home again , and i tell thee thou shalt find thy host dead , which happened accordingly , and as soon as ever he took his children off from the ass he disappeared . this is an instance of his kindness by land , but calixtus tells us he was as kind by sea too . witness the sea captain that tumbled to the bottom of the sea with his armour on , to whom st. james there appeared and taking him by the hand , brought him safe to his ship again . witness the pilgrim that fell into the sea , whom st. james held by the hair of his head , and kept him above water for three days till he came to his port , these were pretty odd things at sea , but if we come to land again , what shall we think of his making a man leap from a tower forty cubits high without any hurt ? nay , which is a much greater and a more courteous miracle , what shall we say to a high tower stooping to the ground that a man might go off without any danger from a leap ? yet this is related by the same pope to have happened a. d. . these are pleasant tasts of the kind of st. james his miracles related by no meaner a person than the head of the roman church : but these are too luscious to be insisted on . only for a warning that men should observe his feast , he saith , that a country man in spain presuming to thresh on that day , and at night going into a bath , the skin of his back parts from his shoulders to his thighs , went off from him and stuck to the wall ; and so the poor man died for an example . if these things do not prove that the miracles wrought by st. james at compostella , are equal to those wrought by christ and his apostles in judea , truly i do not know what will. § . . we must now proceed to the vial of st. mary magdalen and the church of st. maximin in france : into which she put the blood of our saviour which visibly boyls up every year on the day of our saviours passion . it would astonish a man to see● such fopperies as these are , compared with the miracles of christ and his apostles . if they had done no more than shewed such tricks to convince the world , it might have remained under paganism to this day . the miracles wrought by christ or his apostles tended to the great benefit and advantage of mankind , and were not cunningly managed in a corner ; for a solemn shew at a certain season of the year ; but the gift of healing the sick and the gift of tongues , in which consisted chiefly the testimony god gave to his apostles , were things of real advantage to the world and lay open to the observation of every one . but the world is apt to suspect and not without reason , these useless and secret miracles ; if they be true they signifie no good to the world , if they be false they do unspeakable mischief to religion . our saviours blood was never shed to shew tricks with , and mary magdalen was hardly at leasure at our saviours passion to gather up his blood as it dropt from him . but what will not these men say and profess to believe too ! certainly there were never more shameful impostures than about reliques and miracles in the roman church ; and when some of the wiser men of their own communion abroad shake their heads and are ashamed of them ; our s. c's and e. w' s magnifie them still , as though the people of england were as capable of being made fools as ever . i pity the weakness and credulity of some , but i abhor the hypocrisie and fraud of those , who do not believe these things themselves , and yet would make others believe them . gentlemen , religion is a grave and serious thing , and a severe account must be given to god of any thing we say about it ; god will never think himself honoured by the falshood and hypocrisie of men ; and that church of all others in the world shall never draw me to its communion which cannot be upheld without abusing mankind , and the most excellent religion in the world . if you have any miracles to shew , do them as christ and his apostles did in the midst of their enemies and upon them too ; can you do them for a better end than our conversion ? was not this the end god designed miracles for ? and how comes he to change his patent among you , with whom they are only done among friends and in corners : where they may be shewed with advantage among ignorant people who have no skill in opticks nor judgement to know the difference between the boyling of a thing from a natural cause and by a miracle . for truths sake , if your church , hath such a power of miracles as christ and his apostles had , never send us to loreto or compostella , or st. maximins church in france ; nor refer us to your tables and legends , those are things in no request among us , whatever they be with you ; but we have many sick and wounded persons and many dead ; come and cure all manner of diseases with a word , in an instant , perfectly , and openly ; raise those who have died of a known incurable disease , and are carried out to be buried or have lain in their graves as christ did : or else out of honour to christ and truth , and for meer shame avoid such rude and impudent comparisons of the miracles of your church , with those of christ and his apostles . if we must believe st. mary magdalens vial ; why not as well all the rest of the glorious reliques of your church , for there are few of them , but have as good authority as that of spondanus , which e. w. produces for this miraculous vial ? why not the foreskin of christ about which no meaner a man than cardinal tolet saith great miracles were wrought at calcata in italy a. d. . after it had been stolen from the lat●ran church in rome by a certain souldier a. d. . and lay undiscovered till after his death ; and yet ferrandus tells us , that germany , flanders , lorain and france , all boast that they have it . ●ollandus , or rather roswayd tells us , that these of antwerp pleaded a possession of it for almost . years ; and the testimonies of pope eugenius a. d. . and clement the eighth a. d. . pope innocent the third notwithstanding his pretence to infallibility thought it fit that so weighty a cause should be left to god himself to determine . symphorian●● campegius in bollandus , saith , that it is at anicium ( le puy ) in france together with aarons miter ; others say , that it was carried by an angel to charles the great , and he placed it at aken . now the same worship is given at all these places where it is supposed to be , and i suppose miracles equally wrought at them . i desire to know when false and counterfeit reliques do work miracles , what we are to think of the testimony given by such miracles and of the nature of them ? it is a pleasant thing to see the accounts given by these men of the same reliques being in several places at once . ferrandus hath found out very subtil ways to solve this difficulty and particularly concerning this foreskin of christ. . by a multiplication of it ; which being in gods power to do , no question is to be made but he does it . . by a wonderful replication of it ; the terms i consess are not very easie , but i suppose he means , that the same body may be in several places at once . he tells us , that suarez and collius see no cause for so great a miracle ; but he thinks there is as much reason for it , as for the multiplication of the wood of the cross ; and i think so too . but yet he hath another reserve , which is , that these several prepuces are really nothing but so many parts of the umbilical vessels , which are sent up and down for the consolation of the faithful . and no doubt they tend very much to it ; especially when they mistake one thing for another . and why may not then that which goes for the blood of christ be the blood of some other person ; especially since the blood of christ is shewn in so many other places besides ? but that we may not however doubt of the truth of both these , st. brigit saith in her revelations , that the virgin mary told her that a little before her assumption she committed the sacred prepuce to the care of st. john , with some of the blood which remained in the wounds of christ. et jam lice at dubitare ? saith ferrandus : by no means . but it is good to understand where it is . yet he tells us , some are of opinion , that there is no other blood of christ upon earth , besides that in the eucharist : and others that all the blood of christ which was shed in his passion , was resumed at his resurrection , and therefore he rather inclines to think , it is some of the blood he shed in his agony , which is preserved in so many places . but was st. mary magdalen there with her vial to gather it up ? no , it is said , it was at the time of his passion and therefore this answer cannot serve . how then come such great quantities of this blood to be seen ? not only in st. maximins church but at paris , at rome , at mantua , and several other places mentioned by ferrandus . to this , he answers with biel that christ had a whole legion of wounds . and alanus de rup● hath undertaken to cast up just how many drops he shed viz. . and can there be any reason in the world to question the credibility of the testimonies of such persons who are so exact and punctual in their calculations ? far be it from us in the least to derogate from that inestimable love which the son of god expressed in shedding his blood as a sacrifice of propitiation for us . we adore , and celebrate that sacred mysterie of our redemption by the blood of that immaculate lamb. it is the blood of christ we glory in and hope for salvation by ; but not as kept for reliques , or preserved in vials to make a shew of ; much less to abuse mankind with a pretence of that sacred blood , when there is not the least shadow of reason to believe it . but thus it hath been in the church of rome , they have turned the most wise and holy and reasonable religion in the world into a matter of shew and ceremony . and for this end they have made use of all manner of devices to get any thing into their hands , that seemed to have any relation to the bodies , or garments of christ , or his disciples . and thus while they sleight their words , and corrupt their doctrine , and pervert their institutions ; no persons can contend more than they for the hair , or nails that belonged to any of their bodies , although they destroy each others testimonies , by so many pretending to the same things . the very tears of christ are pretended to be kept in two several places in france : and those put into a vial too by the blessed virgin , if we believe the jesuit ferrandus . it is a pretty competent miracle to preserve tears so long : but what cannot they shew , who have some of the hair of christ , when an infant , at st. denis in france as spondanus assures us , and some of the swadling clouts he was wrapt in , in the manger ? and as good an author every whit as spondanus , relates that at courchiverni a place near bloys the breath of joseph is kept in a vial too , which the angel took while he was cleaving wood. what a shame would it be now for us to question the truth of any other relicks among them ? why should we dispute the vast quantity of the blessed virgins milk , so learnedly defended by ferrandus ? to be seen in judea , in italy , in spain , and in many places in france . what doubt can be made of the several locks of her hair ? for although they believe her body assumed up into heaven ; yet no doubt , saith ferrandus , by frequent combing enough would fall off to furnish the several churches in rome , in spain , in france , and other places , with it . what if so many places pretend to have the true seamless coat of christ ? is it possible , they should be any of them mistaken , although there could be but one true one ? for it is a very weak defence of ferrandus to say , that there were many made after the likeness of the true one ; for all places contend that they have the true . it were endless to give an account of multitudes of other relicks , which ferrandus confesses to be equally challenged by many places ; and which he pitifully defends by such shifts , as these are . but it is not enough to shew in general that there can be no sufficient credibility in the testimony given to the relicks of the roman church ; but i shall now shew it more particularly concerning this vial of st. mary magdalen . this vial is supposed to be of her own bringing into france , and it is worth the while to know how she came thither . thus the story is related in the roman breviary . after christs ascension to heaven , martha with her sister mary , ( whom they suppose to be mary magdalen ) and with her brother lazarus and their servant marcella , and maximinus one of the seventy disciples of our lord with many other christians were put into a ship by the jews without any sail or oars , that they might perish by shipwrack : but by the providence of god the ship came safe to marseilles : by which miracle and preaching the inhabitants of marseilles and of aix , and the neighbour people were converted : and lazarus was made bishop of marseilles , and maximinus of aix . but mary magdalen having accustomed her self to prayer and a contemplative life , retired into a hollow cave of a very high mountain ; where she continued thirty years , separated from all conversation with men , and every day was carried up by angels , to hear the choire of angels sing . this is contained in the fourth and fifth lessons on july . in the present roman breviary : but we are to consider that this story was not always in the roman breviary ; for those who reformed it under pius the fifth had left it out ; but since it hath been thought fit to be restored again ; it being much for the edification of the people , to hear such legends . for there is not the least pretence in antiquity for any part of it , as a learned doctor of the sorbon hath at large proved , shewing in a set discourse that for a thousand years after christ it was the constant tradition of the greek and latin church , that lazarus , martha , and magdalen , all dyed in the eastern parts , and not a word said of maximinus ; that the whole story is taken out of a very fabulous book , pretended to be written by marcella the servant to martha in the hebrew tongue , and translated by one synthex into latin ; and preserved by vincentius in his history . it may not be amiss to set down some of the miracles contained in this story ; one is of the persons who accompanied them and the places assigned to them , as trophimus was sent to arles , paulus to narbon , eutropius to aurange , , austregesilus to eourges , irenaeus to lyons , ferrutius to bezan●on , and dionysius is placed over all france . was there eve● better company put together ? when irenaeus dyed a. d. . eutropius a. d. . austr●gistlus a. d. . and trophimus , paulus , martialis , saturninus , and dionysius are by the most learned writers of france , cast back as far as the time of decius : and ferrutius was a disciple of irenaeus . it would be too tedious to relate mary magdalens preaching at marseilles , ( notwithstanding st. pauls prohibition , which the author saith , she had not heard of , but assoon as she did , she retired into her cave ) the manner of the conversion of the governour of marseilles and his lady , their going towards hierusalem ; her death upon the birth of her child in the passage ; st. peters conducting him to hierusalem , seeing the badge of the cross on his shoulders ; the miraculous education of the child by sucking the breasts of his dead mother , who was found by his father on the shore after two years playing with stones , and running upon all four : the resurrection of the mother , their return to marseilles , where they found mary magdalen preaching to a multitude of people ; the monstrous dragon tamed by martha with a little holy water and the sign of the cross ; which was thicker than an oxe , longer than a horse , had the head of a lyon , and the strength of twelve lyons , and was supposed to be of the race of the leviathan mentioned in job , and came by sea from galatia ; being b●gotten of the leviathan , on a strange beast of that country , which kills by its scent the length of an acre , and what ever it touches , it burns like fire ; these and several other such pleasant miracles i purposely omit ; which launoy calls more than old wives tales , by which christian religion is dishonoured , and men are abused ; which make the enemies of christianity despise it , and fill its friends with indignation ; to hear so holy a religion so horribly corrupted by the impudent lies of idle men . but after all these things , thus laid together , can we do otherwise than believe that the blood of christ is kept in the vial of st. mary magdalen in the church of st. maximin and that it boyls up every year on the day of our saviours passion ? § . . the next thing we are to consider , is , the miracles recorded in the lives of those two admirable saints , b. st. dominick , and seraphical st. francis. the first miracle we read of concerning st. dominick , was the miraculous prediction concerning him in the two pictures in st. marks church in venice , reported by no meaner a person than st. antonin ( e. w's . pious and learned arch-bishop of florence . ) one in the likeness of st. paul with those words over it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and under , these , per istum itur ad christum , over the other 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and under facilius itur per istum ; it seems st. paul was but a very ordinary preacher , if compared wtth the founder of the order of preaching fryers . but this prediction did not so plainly set him forth , as the vision his mother had near her time of travel with him , viz. that she bore a whelp which carried a fire-brand in his mouth , which set the whole world on fire ; which had its full accomplishment by his being the first author of the blessed inquisition ; for he was a true fire brand , having not near so much light as heat in him . jansenius tells us ; that he had no kind of mercy upon hereticks , that he was rather a lyon than a man in his carriage towards them . and was not this a fit person to be compared with our blessed saviour ? as he is most blasphemously , by e. w's . most modest prelate antonin , wherein he is followed by jansenius . they might as well have compared light and darkness , tenderness and cruelty , a wolf and a lamb together . but the most blasphemous comparison of all others in that which st. katharine of siena said she had by revelation from god , and is repeated after her , by lewis of granada and jansenius , viz. that she saw the eternal father producing his son out of his mouth , and st. dominick out of his breast . whereupon he said to her , my dear child , thou seest how i have produced these two sons , where of the one is my son by nature , and the other by adoption ; and so proceeds in an admirable comparison between them as jansenius thinks it ; but we may well use his own words though with a far different meaning . quis verò hic non miretur ac stupeat ? for who can choose but wonder and be astonished at such horrible blasphemy ? to see a fire-brand compared in such a manner with the eternal son of god. but what was it , this b. dominick did to be thought to come so near to christ ? why forsooth , christ was laid in a manger , and st. dominick when an infant would not lie in his cradle , but would throw himself out of it , and lie upon the bare ground ; when christ was born , a star appeared to the wise men , and when st. dominick was baptized , his godmother fancied she saw a star in his forehead . christ went at twelve years old to the temple , and st. dominick was carried to church by his parents and there left to be instructed . o admirable comparisons ! but yet further . st. dominicks fathers name was felix , and his mothers joanna ; now joanna , saith antonin is as much as full of grace , and the angel in his salutation said to the blessed virgin. ave maria , gratia plena , can any thing be now plainer than this comparison between our saviour and st. dominick ? but it may be , he wrought some special miracles in which he came near to christ. i shall mention some of them by which we may make a judgement of the credibility of the rest . one particular thing which st. antonin instances in , was st. dominicks power over devils ; and in truth he was very extraordinary in this . jansenius hath already put together several instances to my hands . it seems the devil used to trouble him in several shapes ; but he was never more vexed with him , than when he flew up and down while he was preaching to the sisters ( so my author calls them ) in the shape of a sparrow . he perceiving the devils cunning , called to sister maximilla to catch him and deliver him to him . she did so , who had no sooner got him into his hands but he falls to the pulling him crying out still enemy , enemy . till at last he left not a feather upon him , and then insulted over him and bid him fly now if he could . the poor sparrow hop'd up and down till at last he got under a brass lamp before the altar of the blessed virgin , and down he tumbles that : when behold a mighty miracle , the lamp hanging by a chain fell not to the ground , and which was more , not a drop of oyl spilt ; but at st. dominicks command the lamp was put in its right place ; and the sparrow disappeared . but the devil was never so abused as when he appeared in the shape of a monky , when st. dominick was writing late at night ; and the devil was shewing monky-tricks round about him : saint dominick nodded to him to stand still and hold his candle for him . the devil could not yet leave his old tricks , but at last the candle was almost burnt out ; and the monkys tees began to burn , then he made a lamentable noise ; still st. dominick commanded him by his nod , ( for he would not vouchsafe to speak to the devil ) to stand still , which he was fain to do , till his toe was burnt , and then st. dominick soundly lashed him and sent him going . i would not be thought to pick these things out of old legends , that are disowned by themselves ; but i assure the reader , these things are not only contained in the ancient and approved writers of st. dominicks life , but in nicol. jansenius the latest and most elegant of them ; whose book was printed at antwerp a. d. . and he further tells us , that the devil finding no good was to be done this way , was resolved to set upon him by main force ; and finding him once so intent at prayers that no noise would disturb him , he takes a huge stone from the top of the church and throws it at his head , but hit only his cowle . but when he saw he could not stir him with all this , he went sneakingly away . this happened , he saith , in the church of st. sabina , where the stone is still to be seen , and is of the bigness of a great holland cheese , saith jansenius , and as black as pi●oh . one time , the devil came to him to confession , but st. dominick presently smelt him out , and so rated him that he sent him away speedily to hell. if he met with possessed persons he had a trick that he could make them confess what he had a mind to . for we are to understand , that the blessed virgin among many singular favours she had shewed to st. dominick had taught him such a way of praying , as was never known before , the most effectual against devils and all sorts of enemies that could be : which is sometimes called the psalter of the blessed virgin , sometimes only the rosary consisted of one hundred and fifty ave marys , and fifteen pater nosters . this excellent device was revealed to him , after his body had had three days conversation with bryers and thorns in the woods near tholouse when the blessed virgin , saith alanus de rupe , commended it to him as the most effectual means to reform the world ; and therefore commanded him to preach and inculcate this in all places . assoon as ever he began to preach it up , it is not to be thought how the devils were alarm'd at it , strange thunders and lightenings , and earthquakes immediately happened upon it . st. dominick goes on , and at last the devils were heard to cry out through the air , wo , wo to us , we are bound by this psalter with chains of fire . st. dominick having thus found out what would hamper the devils , he made use of it upon occasion , for finding a person possessed with several devils , he ties the rosary of beads about his neck , and then made the devils confess what he pleased ; and at last they acknowledged that no man that continued in the use of the rosary could go to hell. upon this he bids the people fall to their rosary , and at every ave maria , a devil went out from the person as black as a coal . was ever any thing like this done by christ or his apostles ? no , i confess they understood nothing of the miraculous virtue of the rosary , that was reserved for a new discovery to help these latter ages of the world. we read only of their casting out devils by fasting and such prayer as christ instructed them in , but they were to seek in the way of tying beads about their necks , or exorcising with one hundred and fifty ave marys . but all the vertue of this admirable rosary doth not lie only in tormenting devils , ; for very extraordinary things are reported of it in another way . bzovius saith , that a lady in spain being carried prisoner into africa , and there put to lie in among the cattel , falls to the rosary of the blessed virgin , and presently the blessed virgin appeared and performed the office of a midwife to her ; and christ in the habit of a priest came and baptized the child ; not long after an angel came and invited her to the churching , and led her to an unknown church with st. anne and st. magdalen , the blessed virgin being present , and christ again in person performed the office . are not these fit things to be inserted in ecclesiastical annals ? but something must be allowed to bzovius for the honour of st. dominick and the rosary invented by him . he that can believe all these miracles already reported of st. dominick need not stick at any of the rest , as his books being preserved dry in the midst of the water , his walking dry in the midst of storms , his raising forty englishmen out of the water at tholouse , his blessing a cup of wine so that it served one hundred and four persons and not a drop of it missing , his turning the worm that came out of the womans breast at rome into a rich jewel , his raising the cardinals nephew from the dead , his being lifted up from the ground at his devotion ; he that sees sufficient reason to believe the reporters of these things upon their bare words , must rest satisfied that st. dominick wrought miracles . § . . but the seraphical st. francis did not come much behind him in this pretended gift of working miracles . i do not find that he had such a power over devils as st. dominick had ; but however he did wonderful things in his way . it seems st. francis himself was not so terrible to devils as br. juniper was ; for st. francis used to threaten the devils , that if they would not go out of persons , he would bring br. juniper to them ; at whose name they presently flew away , saith wadding . for they had so great a consternation upon them at the approach of juniper , that a possessed person perceiving at a quarter of a miles distance his coming towards him , ran away for seven miles together crying and howling ; as the same grave and late author relates . yet one time the devil , who owed him a spight , was like to have been too hard for him ; when he was condemned to be hanged for a spy ; and was upon the rack , and there confessed himself a traytor , but by good fortune the f. guardian , espying him and knowing his simplicity , ( for wadding confesses he was commonly accounted a fool ) procured his release . but the devil ( if the franciscans annalist may be credited ) was not so much asraid of coming near st. francis , for finding him once in the cave of monte d' alverno , he was like to have tumbled him down headlong from thence , had not the rock miraculously yielded to his hands , so that he left the impression of his fingers in the place he laid hold on ; which saith wadding were to be seen many years after , but were at last cut away ; for fear any person should go thither to confute him . but although st. francis had not that power over him that goes about like a roaring lyon ; yet he had an extraordinary power over a devouring wolf , as appears by the story of his miraculous conversion by him : wadding relates the story very briefly , having a mind to be at the end of it ; but he agrees in substance with the rest , and refers us particularly to the speculum vitae sti francisci , wherein it is related at large ; in short , it is this , there was a terrible wolf not far from eugubium , that spared neither man nor beast , which kept the people in so much fear , that they durst not stir out of the gates of the city . st. francis moved with a pious zeal not to kill but to convert this wolf , out he goes at the gates of the city , with no other armour than what he could presently make with his fingers , viz. the sign of the cross ; the people were got upon the tops of their houses to see the issue of this encounter : the wolf comes with open mouth towards him , st. francis presently shuts his mouth with the sign of the cross ( see here saith spoelberch the wonderful vertue of the sign of the cross ) after this st. francis comes to parly with the wolf in a familiar manner , and says to him brother wolf , i command thee in the name of christ that thou hurt neither me nor any one else ; upon which he immediately falls on the ground in the posture of a penitent . st. francis takes him to confession , laying open before him the horrid cruelties he had committed ; but at last offers terms of agreement between him and the city ; the wolf by the moving of his tail and ears plainly shewed that he understood and accepted his offer . st. francis then tells him he knew he did all this to satisfie his hunger , therefore he would take care he should be provided for , if he would promise he would never hurt any body again . the wolf bows his head in token of consent ; and when st. francis held out his hand to make the bargain sure , the wolf put his right foot into his hand ; ( very well understanding the way of contracts ) . upon this the wolf quietly walks along with him towards the city ; the people seeing that , flocked in great abundance about him , st. francis makes an excellent sermon on the occasion , and at last assures them of the conversion of brother wolf , and acquaints them with the promise he had made for his maintenance ; the wolf renews his promise before them all , as formerly . the people were filled with great joy and the wolf lived very innocently and neighbourly among them all the rest of his days , and the people much lamented his death . this story i confess i did not expect to have met with any where else than in the golden legend , or the ingenious book of conformities ; but not only finding it , in other more creditable authors among them , but inserted into their books of annals by wadding , and defended by hen. sedulius who writ an apology for the book of conformities , i thought i had reason to produce it : not knowing but that e. w. might reckon this among the miracles of st. francis , which might be parallel'd with those of christ and his apostles . cardinal bonaventure doth not particularly relate the story , but he mentions his taming of wolves among his extraordinary acts ; and tells us of st. francis his great kindness to all sorts of creatures calling them brothers and sisters . and although christ and his apostles thought it enough to preach only to men and women , st. francis his charity was so much beyond theirs , that he preached to birds and beasts as st. anthony of padua his disciple did to fishes : and i assure you with no small success . for wadding tells us that st. fancis was in dispute with himself , whether it were fitter for him to spend his time in praying or preaching : being in a great perplexity about it , he sends to brother sylves●er ( the same who saw the golden gross come out of st. francis his mouth ) and sister clara , that they should seek god for resolution ; they both agree that he was to preach ; being thus satisfied in his call ; the next morning early he goes towards bevagna , and seeing a place where multitudes of several kinds of birds were gathered together , he makes hast thither and salutes the birds as if they had been reasonable creatures . the birds being big with expectation turned themselves and bowed their heads towards him ; then he admonished them all to hear the word of god , and then said to them . my brethren , ye ought to praise your creator that hath given you feathers and wings , and good air , and that provides for you without your care . at which excellent instructions , the devout birds stretched out their necks , and clapt their wings , opened their bills , and looked earnestly upon him . then he walked in the midst of them , and not one of them stirred , till he gave them the blessing and made the sign of the cross over them , and then they all flew away together . thus cardinal bonaventure and wadding both gravely relate the story of his first preaching , after it was revealed that he ought to preach : but that was not all , but they tell us that being returned to his disciples , he blamed himself for so long neglecting the duty of preaching to the birds . from hence he went forward in his work , and the swallows ( not being i suppose at his former sermon ) were very troublesom in making a noise to the disturbance of the auditory ; to whom he thus spake , sisters swallows , it is now time that i speak ; for you have tatled enough already . hear the word of god , and hold your peace till that be done , which they presently did ; and all the people were astonished at the miracle ; as well they might . a scholar of paris , having heard the fame of this miracle , say the same authors , and being very much troubled at the chattering of a swallow , commanded him in the name of st. franci● to come to him and hold his peace , which the swallow immediately did . another time , as st. francis was passing through the marshes of venice , he heard a great number of birds singing pleasantly together , he told his companion , he would go and sing prayers among them ; which he did , but because the noise was so great they could not hear prayers , he bid them leave off singing till he had done . which they did as readily as if they had made the vow of obedience . but this spirit of devotion did not fall upon the birds alone ; for he instructed a sheep to attend prayers , which she constantly did kneeling , and bleating before the altar of the blessed virgin , which was her way of saluting her . o , but at the elevation of the host , she fell down upon her knees , in token of her profound reverence . we need not now wonder at the devout dog of lisbon , whose story is told with so much circumstance by eusebius nierembergius , that belonged to a cook of lisbon , and constantly followed the sacrament whereever it went ; and could by no means be drawn off from his attendance ; and not only so , but would let no persons be quiet , if they did not pay their devotion to the sacrament . i think it would be a hard case to determine whether st. francis his sheep , or the lisbon dog , or st. anthony's mule had the greatest devotion to the host : it is certain they were all very extraordinary in their severy kinds . but it was not only such mild creatures as sheep that were thus obedient to st. francis , but being once to preach at trevi in the market place , the young fole of an ass ran up and down and very much disturbed him ; at last st. francis with a pleasing countenance said to him , brother ass , i desire thee to stand still and not interrupt the word of god which i am now preaching to this thirsty people : upon which the ass ( moved belike to see the humility of this good man in owning his poor kindred ) fell upon his knees and heard the sermon quite out . was any miracle like these ever done by christ or his apostles ? but did st. francis work no other kind of miracles ? yes we are told of many more , and of another nature , but they are all delivered by the same persons , and upon the same credit ; so that if we believe some upon their words , we ought to take all ; if we reject some and take others , we believe not upon their testimony ; but our own judgement . one thing more is so remarkable that we ought not to omit it , viz. that st. antonin applying that place of the psalms to him , he sus upon the cherubim and rides upon the wings of the wind ; makes it plain from thence , that st. francis being above the cherubim , was of the order of ●eraphim ( for which reason , or for none e. w. calls him the seraphical st. francis ) and to make this out , they tell us , that he appeared in a chariot of fire among his disciples ; but what was mo●e miraculous , he and his brother massaeus going to preach , he was so set on fire with zeal and devotion that he seemed to cast flames out of his mouth ; and called his br. massaeus to him crying a. a. a. with the force of which breath frier massaeus was carried up into the air many cubits , saith wadding . nay it was no extraordinary thing with st. francis himself to be so raised up , for frier leo who was permitted to be with him in his retirement to monte d' alverno , found him sometimes so high in the air in a rapture , that he could just kiss his feet ; sometimes up to the middle of the trees , and sometimes so high that he could hardly discern him ; ( especially in a dark night . ) but the most glorious miracle of st. francis was that of the bleeding wounds of christ in his side , and hands , and feet : as to which it is observable , that they were so wonderfully concealed , that no man could ever fully discern them in his life time ; only frier ruffin once thought he spied the wound in his side . and although many ways were used to convince men of the truth of these wounds after his death ; yet to me there was none like that of the image of st. francis , for to convince a certain frier , from the mark of the wound in his side fresh blood was seen to run , from which time he most firmly believed them . and can we think that st. ●homas his putting his hands into the wounds of our saviours side , was half so strong an evidence of the truth of christs resurrection , as the bleeding of an image was of the wounds of st. francis ? no , no , although a body may deceive , a picture cannot . are not these now doughty miracles and attested with such uncontrolable evidence , that they ought to be compared with those of christ and his apostles ? § . . before i dispatch this first head in shewing upon what uncertain reports miracles are received and believed in the roman church ; i shall give an account of some of them nearer home , by which we may judge how far the miracles boasted of by e. w. ought in point of credibility to be compared with those of christ and his apostles . i hope none will deny that there are some bounds to be set to our belief of reports concerning miracles : for although gods omnipotency hath no bounds , yet we are not to think that god doth equally imploy his power in all things , nor at all times , nor as often as men shall please to say he doth it . in many cases it is very hard to determine the farthest extent of the power of nature ; and punctually to shew what is a miracle and what not ; for the power of meer natural causes may lie secret and hidden from us ; yet from a continual observation of the course of nature a certain sphere may be fixed , within which the effects of nature are contained . as that a body being once truly dead , cannot of it self come to life again ; that there are some diseases at such a height as to be incurable by natural means ; in these cases the raising of such a body to life , the curing of such diseases being done frequently , publickly , and in an instant are great arguments of a miraculous and divine power . and this we say was the case of the miracles of christ and his apostles : but from hence men ought not to abuse mankind ; and because the power of god is unlimited , therefore to say that the most extravagant , foolish and idle imaginations of men , because they have passed without proof for miracles among credulous people , must still be received for such . for is it reasonable that because we believe that nothing is impossible with god , therefore we must not question that so many saints walked with their heads off , or did such extravagant things as the makers of the lives of the saints tell us ? for it was not only st. denis of france of whom that is reported ; but our own ecclesiastical stories will acquaint us with many other instances of a like nature . so mr. cressy tells us of st. justinian the martyr , that when his head was cut off , his body presently rose , and taking the head between the two arms went down to the sea shore , and walking thence on the sea passed over to the port called by his name ; and being arrived in the place where a church is now built to his memory , he fell down , and was there buried by st. david with admirable hymns and canticles . so the same grave historian relates of st. ositha , that as soon as her head was cut off , her body presently rose and taking up the head in the hands by the conduct of angels walked firmly the straight way to the churches of st. peter and st. paul about a quarter of a mile distant from the place of her suffering , and when it was come there , it knocked at the door with the bloody hands , as desiring that it might be opened , and thereon left marks of blood . having done this , it fell there down to the ground . to the same purpose he tells of st. clarus , whose head being cut off presently after arose , and with his hands taking up his head , by the assistance of angels , carried it to a fountain not far distans , into which he cast it : and then carried the same back to the oratory of his cell , and going on a little further towards a village seated near the river epta , he there consummated his course , and transmited his blessed soul to heaven . and of st. decumanus he writes , that when his head was cut off from his body , the trunk raising it self up took the head which it carried from the place where he was slain to a spring not far of , which flowed with a most christalline water , in which with the hands it washed the blood away . so st. juthwara with her own hands took up her head being cut off , and to the astonishment of all , ( as we may easily imagine , ) carried it back steadily into the church . these are pretty good instances for one that takes it so ill that his history should be called the great legend what can be imagined more absurd , and be supposed to be done to less purpose than such foppish miracles as these ? but i extreamly wonder at his niceness in omitting some others of a like nature delivered by a late infallible author called oral tradition : as st. maxentia's being beheaded and carrying her head in her hands , for which capgrave quotes nothing less than infallible oral tradition ; for , saith he , faithful people have received this from their fathers by certain tradition . and have their late men better any argument than this for transubstantiation , invocation of saints , &c. why forsooth , can it be imagined that fathers should go about to deceive their children ? did not they who saw it know the truth of what they saw ? would not they speak truth to their children ? how , could then any errour or mistake come into the belief of the faithful . none certainly . why then it is a demonstration , that st. maxentia did after her ●ead was cut off from her body carry it in her b●nds . can any thing be more demonstrative than this ? and by the same arguments we are assured , that the head of st. melorus being cut off , out of great pity to cerialtanus his murtherer , being in a great thirst , bad ●im thrust his staff into the ground , and he should immediately see a spring to arise thence , with which he might plentifully quench his thirst . was not the head of this saint very charitable and kind to his murtherer ? now this , which was a principal part of the story mr. cressy seems in a very sullen humour to leave out ; although he takes the rest from capgrave ; of which i can only give this account , ( for i have no reason to question mr. cressy's faith or good will ; ) that alford from whom he translates his history , only refers to capgrave , and doth not relate enough for mr. cressy to make up the legend . the like omission he is guilty of about another miracle concerning him , viz. that when by the command of his uncle his right hand and left foot were cut off ; and he had a silver hand and brass foot sramed for him , ( as mr. cressy confesseth ) capgrave adds , that he could move the fingers and open and shut his hand as if it had been made of nerves , and flesh , and bones ; but this likewise is left out in alford , from which it appears how faithfully mr. cressy kept to his author . upon the same reason , i suppose , he omits , st. paternus his calling to his man when he was dead , and he saw his head cut off before his eyes ; but behold a miracle , the head answered to him , here i am sir , at which the saint finding out the head and joyning it to the body , it presently arose safe and sound . it is not to be thought that mr. cressy did question the latter part of it , who at large relates the miracle of st. winifred's head bei●g joyned to her body again , and her rising up presently upon it , cleansing her face from the dust and sweat ; to the wonderful joy of the whole congregation . but as i observed before ; a white circle remained ever after about her neck , shewing the place where the section had been made . and can the heart of man doubt of this ? when mr. cressy saith , that immediately after her death , her story was written by the holy abbot elerius , her last spiritual father , and this story was constantly read upon her day in the breviary secundum usum sarum . but st. edmund had a red list about his neck when after his head had been cut off by his enemies , it was found joyned fast to the body in his grave ; and which was very remarkable , when his friends , seeking after his body in the wood , had like to have lost themselves and one of them cried to the other , where art thou ? the head answered distinctly here , here , here ; and never ceased crying so till it had brought them all to it . this miracle mr. cressy very honestly gives an account of , and saith , he finds it attested and received by all ancient authors without exception , particularly by william of malmsbury . but so much he dares not say of st. winnisred ; for he confesses that bede and the saxon historians do not mention her ; and among these his own malmsbury is one ; but both he and alford think that the saxons hated the britains ●o that degree , that they would not so much as remember their saints . which is a very likely thing . but of all the miracles of this kind commend me to those of st. cadoc : one time , when he was building an oratory , an irish artificer came to his assistance , who being envied by his fellow workmen , they very maliciously cut off his head and tied a great stone to his body and so threw it into a pond , next morning the beheaded artificer brings his head in his lap and the great stone at his back ; and all bloody shews himself to st. cadoc , then the head ( to whom it belonged to speak ) thus addressed it self to the saint . o servant of god set my head on my shoulders again , and i will tell thee all the things which thou knowest not about this matter . which he had no sooner done , but the head told the whole story , and having done so expired . but as remarkable was his raising the gyant can at st. andrews in scotland , who told him that he brought his soul out of hell ; and being so useful a man , upon the prayers of st. cadoc he lived a notable digger and labourer there a good while after . have we not now very great reason to believe these miracles ? and is not the authority of the legendaries , from whom these things are reported , equal to the testimony of all christians ? and are not the miracles themselves as credible and likely to be true as those of christ and his apostles ? but if these do not satisfie , what can we be able to say , to count wallen earl of northumberland , who being beheaded for rebellion against william the conqueror , his head sixteen years after his death , saith capgrave , was found fastened to his body and only a bloody list about his neck where it was cut off . it seems rebells are as capable of these miracles as saints . we need not at all wonder now that when he was beheaded while he was saying the pater noster , his head went through with it , after its being cut off . this would hardly go down for a miracle , when we have such choice of so much better and plainer miracles , related by those anthentick historians ; from whom mr. cressy and others have furnished themselves with such trash . can any one deny it to be a great miracle for a man to make a whole basket full of broken eggs whole again ? yet this capgrave tells us st. swisbun did to the poor womans eggs that were broken by his workmen , while he was building the bridge on the east-side of winchester ; and this notable miracle was performed only with making the sign of the cross over them . now i appeal to the conscience of any man , whether we ever read that christ or his apostles did any such thing ? or did ever christ or his apostles hang their garments upon the sun beams ; yet this was done , saith capgrave by st. aldelm in the lateran church , and the beam of the sun held his garment a long time : which was kept for a sacred relick in the monastry of malmsbury . it had been a stranger thing if they had preserved the sun-beam too . but he was not alone in so strange a miracle ; for st. cathro's staff was supported by a sun-beam , as colganu● tells us in his life . and that we may not be surprized at the strangeness of this miracle , in his notes he refers us to the life of st. deicola and st. brigid . in the life of st. deicola i find , that being weary with travelling ; he had a mind to put off his upper garment , which the servants seeing , ran as fast as they could to take it from him ; he told them , by no means ; for he had a servant that would be sure to keep it ; and behold a wonderful thing ! he espyed a beam of the sun coming in at a window , and came towards it , and laid his garment upon it , where it continued for two or three hours till he took it away . bollandus relates the same story , and that it may not appear incredible , he saith the same thing was done by st. goar , st. florentius , and st. amabilis , st. brigid hung her garment upon the shadow which it seems was stronger than a sun-beam , for her cloaths were heavy being dropping wet , and she mistook the shadow for a great tree ; ( i am much afraid this was not the only mistake in this matter . ) but however they hung there a drying , saith cogitosus in the life of st. brigid ; whom bollandus calls an excellent writer , and a man that wri● not only what he heard but what he saw . ( i would he had told us whether he had seen this miracle or no. ) and yet bollandus thinks he did not live in the same time , with st. brigid . but it may be this must pass for another miracle that he should see things that were done before he was born . we think the preservation of moses when a child was extraordinary ; but what was that , to the miraculous preservation and education of st. kyned ? the son● saith capgrave of a prince of little britain by his own daughter , who being delivered she exposed him to the river in a wicker-cradle , in which he was carried to the sea and at last was cast upon an istand called in the british tongue henisweryn ; and on a sudden the sea fowl gathered about him , and by their bills and claws took him out of the water and carried him into the air , and at last placed him upon a rock , making a bed of feathers for him and driving away serpents and hurtful creatures , and shelter'd him from wind and hail and snow , by joyning their wings together over him . while the child lay thus , before nine days were passed , an angel came to him , and brought him a brass bell , and put the childs mouth to it : and when the child was hungry it turned it self and sucked of the bell ; which afforded nourishment sweeter than any milk : and of so subtle a nature that he voided no excrements . thus he continued till he could walk , and the swaddling cloaths in which he was wrapt , grew to him as bark to a tree just as he grew . afterwards a wild doe came twice a day and filled the bell with milk , thus he continued eighteen years , being taught to read by an angel. but although he changed his place yet still he continued an eremitical life : once st. david desired him to go to a council with him , he excused himself because of his deformity ; st. david prayed for the cure of it , and he was heal'd , st. kyned prayed for the return of it , and he was as bad as ever . this miracle alford relates , although he thinks , the writers of his life have exceeded a little too much in his miracles . but to my mind st. kyneds sucking of a bell , was not so strange as st. berachs sucking st. froegius his ear ; which colganus very gravely relates . no sooner was st. berach born but st. froegius his uncle took care of him and told his mother , god was able to bring him up without the help of milk ; and he gave him his right ear to suck , by which he was as plentifully nourished as if he had sucked all the while at his mothers breast . if caepgrave had had the trimming of this story , he would have added that this was sweeter than any milk . colganus ( as he had reason ) is very angry with those that say st. froegius his ear gave milk , for although , saith he , it were possible for god to make his ear give milk , yet it is not probable , because other way● might serve as well for his nourishment . we read not of any miracles wrought by christ himself , till he entred upon his preaching ; but these saints began very early and some of them held out to a mighty age ; for st. david lived to . st. fintan to . st. mochaius to . and st. cathubius as long , st. finnian to . st. kentigern . but st. kieran for . years , saith the author of his life , near . saith the lesson upon his day , st. abban . st. mochteus . in all which time he neither spake an idle word nor eat fat meat , so the author of his life saith ; but the old verses cited by colganus say , that in all that time he neither spake nor eat ; and others that speak more moderately , say , that in one hundred years he eat nothing : a pretty reasonable fast for any man ! but to be sure much exceeding that of christ himself : but that is not our present business ; which is , to shew how very early they began to work miracles . it is hardly conceivable they should begin sooner than in their mothers wombs ; and while st. fursey was in his mothers womb , he very severely rebuked his grandfather for thinking to condemn his mother , without any reasonable cause . colganus confesses that this was a very great miracle , but justifies it as the author of his life doth from gods omnipotency . yet bollandus would fain in his notes , have it softened and made more probable , viz. that a voice was heard to that purpose , and that some thought the child spake in his mothers womb ; but he confesses the ancient mss. are express that it was the child ; & the hymns of the church are plain to that purpose . matris intra viscera loquens , avi nequioris arguebat scelera . which were sung upon his day , saith , arnoldus wion , from whom bollandus had them : and we hope they were more honest than to praise god for that which they did not believe . was st. john baptist's leaping in his mothers belly to be compared to this ? but they have a better instance to parallel this , viz. st. nicholas his fasting wednesdays and fridays while he suckt his mothers breasts ; or which is all one sucking but once on those days , which i suppose being after vespers made it a good fast : but methinks in honour to the church of rome , saturday should have been one of his fasting-days . but commend me for devotion to st. mocht●us that leapt in his mothers womb at canonical hours ; a good presage certainly of his future devotion . for a child new born , scarcely any went beyond st. cathaldus , for assoon as he was born he struck his head against a piece of marble , and the marble yielded like wax to him , and when his mother expired at her delivery , the child raised up himself without any help , and embracing his mother in his arms he raised her to life again . was not this a towardly beginning for a child ? had not st. alred a very clear complexion , whose face arch deacon william in capgrave saw shining like the sun , with such bright beams , that his hand gave a shadow being held towards him ; from whence he had reason to think he would prove an extraordinary man in his time . it seems to be now no great matter that s. aldelm should make a child to speak at nine days old , to vindicate the innocency of the pope ; and although mr. cressy speaks doubtfully of this matter ; yet surely there is no more reason to question it than many other miracles related by him and his authors , for it was read in the lessons upon his day . capgrave saith that st. ninian commanded a child who was but few days old to declare who was his own father , the child presently obeyed and pointed with his finger , and openly said such a man was his father . was not this an early sign of a wise child ! but never was there certainly a more early confessor than st. romwold of whom capgrave relates , that being newly born he cryed out he was a christian , and presently made a most elaborate confession of his faith hardly short of that of athanasius in its exactness in the point of the trinity ; but he was too ripe to hold long , for after three days he dyed . st. kieran in his childhood raised by his prayers a bird half killed by a kite ; but st. kentigern ( being perhaps a year or two older ) exceeded him , for when his school-fellows had pulled off a robin-red-breasts head , he took the head and put it to the body and by his prayers and the sign of the cross raised the bird to life again , so not only capgrave , but bollandus relate the story ; and bollandus in his preface particularly vindicates capgrave's authority with relation to the life of st. kentigern . are not these now pregnant instances how much these saints exceeded christ and his apostles in their beginning to work miracles so much before them ? but withall we never find that christ and his apostles wrought such trifling miracles . to pass over the resurrection of robin-red . breast , methinks it was an occasion somewhat with the meanest to save school-boys from whipping , as capgrave tells us some of his saints have done , witness the boy at canterbury that ran for sanctuary to st. adrians tomb at st. augustins , whither his master pursued him ; and resolved to whip him , till a white dove appeared on the top of the tomb , and by stretching out his neck and wings begged pardon for him ? then the master fell uppon his knees to the saint and confessed his fault ; and so the dove flew away . but he escaped better now than at another time , ( if he were the same master ) when whipping the boy however that had fled thither , his arm was held stretched out all that day till he fell upon his knees to the boy , and asked him pardon and by his intercession he recovered the use of his arm. the truantly boys that ran to st. bregwins tomb for sanctuary from their masters , became invisible to them there , if capgrave may be believed . a boy that ran to st. erkenwalds tomb from st. pauls school got his lesson by inspiration there ; and when his master pursued him thither , he repeated it exactly to him . but never was poor master so punished for whipping boys , as he was that p●esumed to chastise those that had fled to s. ermenilds tomb ; for the next night the saint appeared to him , and bound him hand and foot stronger than with irons , so that he could not move himself ; next morning he sends for the boys , begs them pardon and desires them to intercede for him ; and being carried to the tomb of the saint , he was restored to his former condition . were not these very important occasions for god to imploy the power of miracles upon ? the nature of this last punishment inflicted on the schoolmaster , puts me in mind of st. ivo's boots which he put the poor abbot of ramsey into for not believing the carpenter ezi's revelation concerning his body ; the whole story is worth reading as mr. cressy relates it in his church-history . this st. ivo was born in a city of persia called frianeos ( no matter whether ptolemy or others mention it , for who can tell but such a city might have been in the world and they not know it ? ) that his father was a prince there named yomos , and his mother isitalia , and his only brother athanatos ( a persian word doubtless ) lived an eremitical life in a certain wood and was illustrious for miracles . ( but how came these particulars to be so well known to our monks in england ? i suppose ezi informed them all by the vision of st. ivo ) well , but st. ivo was elected bishop in the town where he was born and not long after translated to the archiepiscopal see of the city asitanea , ( a huge city in persia i suppose ) which see be governed with great sanctity and prudence , till a terrible famine so desolated the country that parents were compelled to devour their children . by reason whereof st. ivo with eleven more devont companions , for sook that region and passing through many countries at last came to rome : ( now what a cross thing is this ? that william of malmsbury saith , that he left his country to avoid the pleasures which his rich bishoprick afforded him ; that he only had three companions and never mentions his coming to rome ; but mr. cressy had the wit to take no notice of this , although alford had not . ) at rome , by the popes advice they severed themselves , and st. ivo by divine disposition together with his nephew sithius and his kins man inthius ( two pretty persian names ) and some others came into britany . ( observe it good reader , the pope sent st. ivo into britain ; for fear , we should derive our christianity from the asian bishops ; and i assure thee alford not a little glories in this . ) and at last died in a town called slepe , at three miles distance from huntington , serving god all his days in watching , fasting and prayers . but all this while , not one word is said of any acquaintance this good bishop had all his life time in england ; not one person is pretended to have known who he was , or whence he came till the carpenter ezi's vision ; therefore we come to that . mr. cressy confesseth his sacred body remained several ages in the place of his burial , in so much as his memory was lost in that place . but at last a. d. . a certain husbandman as he was plowing the ground light upon his tomb , which being taken up and opened , the body of a bishop in his pontifical ornaments was seen in it . the night following the same bishop st. ivo appeared in a very reverend form and with great brightness to a carpenter called ezi and told him who he was ; commanding him to signifie to ednoth abbot of ramsey that he should translate his and his companions bodies from thence to his monastery . but the poor man not having the boldness to relate this vision , he appeared to him the second time repeating the same commands ; which he still neglecting to perform , at the third apparition the bishop smote him on the side with his crosier , telling him that the pain of that stroke should remain , till he had performed what had been enjoyned him . the man awaking presently after , found as grievous pain in his side as if a sword had pierced it . thus was he compelled to declare his vision to the abbot , which as soon as he had done he was freed from his pain . but the abbot would give no credit to what the man told him , but calling him clown and fool , said , must we translate and venerate the ashes of i know not what cobler ? the night following the holy bishop appeared to the abbot , and said , rise quickly , for i whom thou scornfully calledst cobler have brought thee here a pair of boots that will last a good while . these thou must put on and wear for my sake . having said thus , he seemed to draw on his legs a pair of boots with care to make them sit smooth and handsom . presently the abbot waking felt such horrible pain in his legs , that he was not able to walk or stand , and fifteen years did ●eremain under this infirmity ( of boots . ) by this miracle , faith mr. cressy , the sanctity of the holy bishop was approved . a wonderful discovery of sanctity ! to revenge himself so severely upon the abbot for his reasonable suspicion of an imposture ; methinks however a pair of strait shoos might have been fair punishment at first for calling him cobler ; and if those had not convinced him , he might then have proceeded to the scotch severity of the boot . but we are to consider that a great deal depended upon the honour of the body that was to be translated ; for the resort would be made accordingly ; and therefore a long gout upon an old abbot might by an easie metaphor pass for st. ivo's boots . i wonder mr. cressy omitted another miracle wrought , no doubt , in approbation of the sanctity of the holy bishop too ; for in my opinion the story of st. ivo's girdle is as good as of his boots ; for which we must understand that these saints were very severe towards all persons who neglected their festival days ; now it so happened , that a monk commanded his servants to work upon his day , and spake not very kindly of the saint . ( it may be questioning whether ever there was any such saint or no ; or calling him girdler , as we may think by his punishment . ) to him st. ivo appeared and asked him if he knew him , he trembling , answered no. the saint replied i am ivo whom thou lately saidst thou didst not know and hinderedst men from keeping my feast ; here , take this girdle and by this token remember me ; and girding it about him he left him . the monk waking found himself as it were girt with an iron girdle , and was under horrible pains and diseases till by visiting st. ivo's monument he recovered his health . thus , these miracles end in some honour to a shrine or monument , which may reward the monks well for the use of their inventions to delude the people . but did ever christ or his apostles testifie their sanctity by giving men such boots and girdles as st. ivo did ? did they ever vindicate the honour of their festivals in such a manner ? it 's true , when persons openly lied and cheated , they were once struck dead upon the place ; and when others profaned the holy institution of the lords supper they were severely punished ; but what is this , to the questioning the body of such an unknown saint as st. ivo ? what is this , to the hindring men from keeping his festival ? were the other such fit ends for god to imploy his power in working miracles as these ? could any think , the asserting the apostolical power , or the holiness of christs own institutions were fit to be compared with the owning of the body of st. ivo , or making servants work upon his holy-day ? if they do , they must have different apprehensions of the christian religion , from what some would seem to have in the church of rome . but to proceed , was ever any thing done by christ or his apostles like the turning a pound of butter into a bell ? yet this is related , from the same storehouse from which they had st. ivo's boots and girdle , viz. capgrave , who saith that st. oudoceus bishop of landaff travelling , desired of some women that were washing butter , a dish of water ; they told him they had no dish but their butter ; the bishop took their butter , and made it in the fashion of a bell and drank out of it , and it remained in that fashion as a golden bell , and was perserved as a sacred relique in the church of landaff for a testimony of the miracle . did ever any of christs apostles meerly with breathing , and the sign of the cross change a person from looking young and fresh to be grayhaired and wrinkled ; yet this mr. cressy delivers ( as he saith ) from our more ancient and credible historians concerning st. modwenna : who intending to retire appointed abbess over her monastery a certain virgin named orbila ; who by reason of her youth and beauty being in great apprehension to undertake that charge ; she binding her with her own girdle , and making the sign of the cross upon her , presently all her hair became white , and her countenance wrinkled as if she had been very aged , yet without any diminution of her health or strength . mr. cress● omits a necessary circumstance of this miracle , viz. that she breathed upon her ; for who can tell but there might be as great vertue in that , as in the sign of the cross or her girdle ? when was there ever such a miracle seen in the apostolical times , as in the letting down the bolt of a door to st. neotus ? for as mr. cressy observes he was of a stature so very low and dwarfish , that in celebrating mass , he was obliged to make use of an iron footstool ; now , saith capgrave , some great man knocking hastily at the door , st. ne●t endeavoured to open it and the bolt was much too high for him , and behold a miracle ! the bolt was let down to his girdle that he might with ease open it . had it not been as well , for the door to have opened it self by a miracle ? but then st. neot would have had no hand in it . did ever any of them revenge perjury as st. quintin did ? who pulled a man by the nose in the night for it , and as capgrave saith , the next morning touching his nose , it dropt off into the bason where ●e was washing ; or as st. egwin ? when an old man sware by his beard , that the land was ●is own , which belonged to st. egwin , immediately his beard fell to the ground , and so he lost his land and his beard too . did ever any of them curse a whole trade in a town ●s st. egwin did : for st. egwin , we must know , went often from his monastery of evesham to aln-cester to preach to the people ; which place was very full of smiths , who beat their anvils so loud while he was preaching , that he could not be heard ; upon that he solemnly cursed the trade of smiths in that place , so that saith capgrave , never did any one thrive by it since . did ever any of them bind themselves in iron chains for their sins and go in pilgrimage in them as the same st. egwin did from england to rome ? ( as mr. cressy relates the story from ancient authors . ) and were any of them assured of the pardon of their sins by such a miracle as he was ; viz. as soon as he had fastned his chains he cast the key which locked them together into the river avon publickly protesting that he would never esteem himself secure of the pardon of his sins , till either the key were restored to him , or the chains unloosed by a power supernatural . and now behold the miracle . while he was at his devotion● in the church of st. peter in rome , his servants going to the rivers si●e to buy provi●●on for their master , they found in a sifh●● belly the key which locked his chains , and then in the presence of a great multitude h● unlocked the said chains , perceiving saith mr. cressy , that such was the divine will and mercy : or rather the cunning of one of his servants who might very easily convey the key from england to rome to gain reputation to his master by so glorious a miracle ; as it seems this made him esteemed a sai●● at rome . if it were in his return between france and england , as malmsbury saith , the miracle is just as great as it was , only i observe that they sometimes differ in the circumstances of their relations . we read indeed that one of the apostles was taken up into the third heaven and hear● unutterable things there ; but i dare say , none of them ever dreamt of seeing the angels ring bells in heaven to the praise of the blessed trinity as st. walstan did . pythagoras his musick of the spheres was nothing to the peal of angels which he heard : which so ravished him that he gave over his work , and called to his companion to come to him and devoutly to set his own foot upon his and believe stoutly and he should see the heavens ●pened , & the angels ringing bells to the praise of the ever blessed trinity . methinks the monastery of barking had been a good place to have ●een this ringing of the angels ; for over that capgrave saith , the heavens are seen open after a peculiar manner . it was a thing which frequently happened , to hear angels singing at the death of their saints : so st. munis heard them singing all night about a tree where st. patricks leper lay dead , saith jocelin in the life of st. patrick ; st. aengussius saw as many about another body as reached up to heaven who were all singing over the body ; ●ut they accompanied the body of st. abba●●s to his burial , with rays of light instead of torches as bright as the beams of the sun. but this was not all , for the angels were extraordinarily serviceable to them upon all occasions , above any thing we read concerning christ or his apostles . i shall not mention their bare appearances , for it was as common for eremites and such saints to see angels , as for us to converse one with another : but the angels brought wood for st. moedoc for the bui●ding of a church , till one of his disciples against his command was resolved to see them , and he espied a multitude of beautiful young men with golden locks to their shoulders , but from that time a voice was heard forbidding them to bring any more ; otherwise the whole church would have been built by angels . then was st. mo●doc hard put to it , not being able to procure an exquisite workman ; he takes an unskilful fellow and blesseth his hands upon which he was enabled to finish the work which the angels began . they helped st. finnian to to bring timber from the wood , both more and quicker than others of his brethren ; and cathmoelus heard the noise of angels about him . an angel helped st. senan● to grind in a mill for a whole night together ▪ several of them ground at the mill for eugenius and tigernachus while they were reading . an angel carried a letter from st. fi●nian to st. columba , who upon receiving it went ten days journey in one day : another brought a candle to st. abban in a dark night to conduct him in his way , and when he had done , took it of him again . many other such offices we read they performed to these saints , of which we read nothing in the lives of christ or his apostles . i suppose it was an angel that tolled st. goodric's bell for him , to prayers , for they tell us it was miraculous ; and when others took notice of this miracle , he prayed that he alone might hear it , which happened accordingly . but it is no wonder the angels should toll the bell , when the blessed virgin taught him to sing . for she appearing one night to him at her own altar , came and laid her hands upon him ; and afterwards begun a tune before him as masters use to do to scholars . the very song is extant in capgrave , which contained only an invocation of her self ; which no doubt she extreamly desires . in my judgement it was a great kindness the angels did to st. finan when thy gave him three round stones , which served him instead of candles in the night , to read , and write , and pray by all his days . but the author of his life in the late jesuits collection tells us that the fingers of st. finians left hand served him instead of candles ; which a poor country fellow espying lost one eye for his curiosity . but st. patricks fingers did mightily outshine his , for in a very dark night his coachman not being able to find his horses , st. patrick out of great compassion towards him , lifts up the fingers of his right hand ; and behold , saith jocelin a very wonderful thing ! his five fingers did shine like the beams of the sun , and turned darkness into light and night into day . this i confess was very extraordinary ; but in another kind st. elsleda's fingers did well , when , we are told , she arose one night to prayers and her candle going out , the fingers of her right hand did give such a light , as not only served her self , but all about her to read by . and can any of these be paralleld by any miracles done by christ or his apostles ? these are a sort of new lights bey●nd what any of our fanaticks have pretended to . now if we consider the miracles done either by christ or his apostles we shall find that these legendary saints did very much exceed them in the same kind of miracles . our saviour we read only fasted forty days and forty nights ; we have met with one a●ready that fasted a hundred years : but if that seem too romantick , we shall find some of them fasting the same time of forty days but with the addition of a very pretty circumstance that they grew fatter and taller by it . so we read in colganus of st. moedoc ; but st. aidanus in capgrave out pitched him , for he fasted fifty days and fifty nights and grew fatter also . st. bartholmew of durham for seven years and a half before his death drank nothing ; if he had not eaten in that time neither , it had been a perfect miracle . when our blessed savlour preached he did not make a mountain on purpose but went up into the next at hand ; but when st. rentegern was to preach in wales ( though there was no want of mountains there , ) a mountain rose up under his feet , which abideth to this day , saith capgrave ; bollandus in the notes on his life , tells us , the same is said of st. david , but with more particular circumstances , thus related by mr. cressy ; when all the fathers assembled assigned st. david to preach , he commanded a child which attended him , and had lately been restored to life by him to spread a napkin under his feet : and standing upon it he began to expound the gospel and the law to the auditory . all the time that his oration continued a snow-white dove descending from heaven sat upon his shoulders ; and moreover the earth on which he stood raised it self under him , till it became a hill , from whence his voice like a trumpet was clearly heard and understood by all , both near and far off . on the top of which hill a church was afterwards built , which remains to this day . it seems st. david wanted st. columba's voice , which saith capgrave when he was singing service might be heard distinctly above a mile without the help of a hill. it is true that christ did cure the lame and the blind and cleansed the lepers : but was ever any withered arm cured by him as the womans was at the tomb of st. erardus which made such a noise at its first stretching , as was heard in every cerner , of the church ? were ever lepers cleansed by christ or his apostles in such a manner as is related of some irish saints , by bollandus , and colganus ? st. munnu in the life of st. mochua in bollandus , wanting the daily conversation of an angel , which he had before , fell into discontent about it ; the angel told him he must be humbled , st. munnu desired that he might have a leprosie for his humiliation ; his prayer was heard , and he had it for seven years ; at the end whereof the angel came to him , and told him he should go to st. mochua to be cured . st. mochua was not presently to be found , in the mean time st. munnu imployed himself in sweeping together the lice that dropt from him and putting them in their places again ; ( according to the rule of frier bartholmew of durham that men must have nasty bodies if they would have pure souls ) at last s. mochua comes to him and embraces him and by licking him all over perfectly cured him ; but the hardest part of his task was the sucking his nostrils which he did three times and drew out three tough pieces of phlegm , and ( behold a miracle indeed ! ) these thre● pieces were turned into three talents of gold , which were preserved in his cabinet like three golden apples . i confess bollandus seems a little startled at these miracles , but he faith they were usual in that ●imple and holy nation as may appear by the lives of other saints . i wonder the jesuit durst make a reflection on the whole nation for the sake of the folly of the monks . colganus in the life of st. fechinus relates , that he put dermitius his queen upon this nasty way of curing a leprosie ; and the same miracle followed ; for the phlegm was turned into pure gold , with part of which he purchased land for his church , and the other he put into his staff to be preserved to posterity . this story is three times related in colganus , that he might be sure to preserve the memory of it . but we must not suppose our own country monk● to come behind the irish either in simplicity , or this faculty of working miracles : for capgrave tells us that st. egbin the monk used the same way of cure to a leprous person ; but instead of gold ( o horrible blasphemy ! ) that which he suckt out proved to be the very flesh of the son of god. for he found this leprous person to be christ himself , and while he held him by the sides he looked up and saw the heavens opened , and he saw a cross upon his head and angels coming to meet him ; and as he raised himself up into the air , he spake very kind words at parting . but what will not these men say to make the nasty monks workers of miracles ! it was prophesied that in the days of the messias the wolf and the lamb should lie down together and the leopard and the kid , i. e. that the christian doctrine should be the most effectual means to remove animosities out of the world and to bring in universal peace and charity . but the monks who wrote the lives of these saints fearing they should in any thing come behind what is said of christ himself ; have filled their legends with prodigious stories about the taming of wolves , and the power they had over all sorts of living creatures . it was very common with these saints when the wolfes had devoured the calves to make them come and suck the cows in their places for fear they should lose their milk . so the author of the life of st. gerald affirms that at his command the wolf came and did his duty ; but after a while by the instinct of nature or rather by the motion of the spirit of god ( saith the same author ) the wolf went to a hill and there called a fawn to supply his room ; by which means they got both the doe and the fawn to the monastery ; and from hence the name of the monastery was called elitheria , elith in irish , saith he , signifying a doe . st. fechinus his mother set him to keep seven cows and a calf ; but he being busie at his contemplation , a wolf came and killed his calf , and eat him up to the bones ; his mother chid him for his neglect ; he presently runs after the wolf and calls to him as his acquaintance and friend , the wolf presently submits , he takes him and tyes him to a hollow stone , whither the cows came at their time to the wolf as if he had been the calf and gave down their milk as freely ; which stone hath since done great wonders . another time he was shrewdly mistaken , for instead of milking a cow he went to a bull , and sadly complained he could get no milk , but behold , saith the author of his life , a wonderful miracle ! the bull gave more milk than any cow of them all . and for this , he appeals to gods omnipotency as baronius d●th for the chappel of loreto . another life of st. fechinus relates this miracle concerning pastolus , his cook ; but withal adds , that the bull afforded as much milk as all the seven cows . st. kentigern wanting oxen to plow with , commanded two stags to come out of the wood and do their work ; the stags presently obeyed , and when they had done their days work , returned to their pasture again . at last a wolf seizes on one of them and devours him . then st. kentigern stretched forth his hand towards the wood and said , in the name of the blessed trinity , i command the wolf to come out and make me satisfaction : and behold the wolf came howling and fell at his feet . to whom the saint thus spake , arise , and in the name of jesus christ i command t●ee to go to plow in the place of the stag , which command the wolf obeyed , and though he was unequally yoked made a shift to plow nine acres and then went his way . but his sowing was as miraculous as his plowing , for one time wanting grain he sowed sand instead of it , and at harvest he reaped excellent wheat . these miracles of st. kentigern i the rather instance in , because one being offended at the miracles contained in the lives of these saints as published by capgrave ; bolland●● offered him the life of st. kentigern for a tryal , and asked him what he disliked in it , as he had published it , when he had read it , saith bollandus , he confessed if the lives of the sain●● were so published they could not but please learned men . i desire such persons to give their opinions by these instances ; and let them then judge whether the new legends be not altogether as bad as the old. when a wolf had devoured a calf belonging to st. modwenna she sent her boy with her staff to him to command him to come to her ; the boy found the wolf yet eating the calf , and told the wolf his errand : the wolf followed him like a dog , and fell down before her and begged pardon . she first chid him , and then bad him keep that cow out of danger all his days : which the wolf punctually observed , and was ever after beloved by the cow as if he had been a calf . yea all the wolfs that were of his race kept the cows there abouts for three miles compass ; and capgrave saith , they are less than others and have white spots in their fore heads , and hurt no body . when st. neots oxen were stollen , the stags came and offered their service to plow for him ; at which the thieves were so astonished that they brought his oxen again ; and some say that all the stags that are descended from them have white marks where their harness was put on : but of this capgrave saith , he neither affirms it , nor because of gods omnipotency dares to deny it . st. bernac made use of stags to draw his carriage when he pleased , and then sent them back to their forrage : he committed his cow daily to the keeping of a wolf , which led her out and brought her home every day . the king of wales sends to st. bernac to provide him a supper ; he returns a rude answer , ( as any man but one of their saints would have thought ) that he owed him not so much service , the king being angry sends his servants , who chopt his cow to pieces ; but they could never make the water hot wherein the meat was to be b●yled ; the king then submits and very humbly sues for pardon ; then st. bernac raises his cow although cut to pieces , and commits her to the wolf again ; and the monk being in a good humour ( as it was dangerous to princes for them to be otherwise ) invites the king to supper , and having nothing provided , he goes to the next oak , and instead of leaves upon it he found as many manchets as he had occasion for , ( the first manchets i am confident that ever grew within a mile of an oak ; ) then to the river he goes , which ran with wine instead of water , and all the stones in the river were turned into fishes : the king requited him well for this cheap entertainment , by exempting his lands from all taxes . by these few instances , out of very many which might be produced , we see what subjection wolfes and other creatures were in to them in those days , for , so far as i can learn , this sort of miracles is now wholly ceased . but we must not think that since they were so much civilized , they took no farther care of their education . for st. kieran intending to make himself a cell ; the first disciple ( saith the author of his life in colganus ) which came to him was a wild boar , which brought him rods and hay with his teeth towards his cell , then came a fox , a brock , a wolf , and a doe : and lived very strictly under his government , and obeyed him in all things like so many monks ; which are the expressions of the author ; and are justified by colganus in his notes , who appeals to the state of innocency ; the power and goodness of god , and other ancient instances of a like nature , and the obedience which the birds and beasts shewed to st. francis. but the fox never thought i dare say , of any state of innocency , for he stole the good abbots shooes , and wickedly forgetting his vow of obedience , carried them to his old kennel ; the abbot knowing this sends another monk , viz. the brock after him who finds the fox ready to eat up the shooes ; and with much ado brings him to penance ; the devout abbot lays open the greatness of his fault before the the fox , ( as certainly it was a great fault in ● fox to steal shooes with a design to eat them ) who submits to pennance and fasted till st. kieran bid him eat : he fasted three days , saith capgrave ; who tells the same story only calling the abbot piranus . st. abban took such pity towards the lean wolves that came out of the wood that he commanded them to take one of the calves ; upon which they made a present dispatch of him ; the wolves came and gave him thanks for their good dinner ; the men that were set to keep the cattel , finding a calf destroyed by wolves , made very lamentable moan to st. abban ; at which he fell to his prayers and signed the small remainders of the carkass with the sign of the cross , and immediately skin and flesh covered the bones , and the calf rose up just of the same colour and bigness he was of before : and the author of his life conjures us to believe him because all things are possible with god. another time as he was sitting in his cell , the wolves ran in among the cattel , he cryed out , let them alone ; and from that time the wolves not only forbore to devour them , but lived very neighbourly with them . thus we see what command they had over these creatures ; but in my mind st. colmans flea was as great a miracle as any of these ; for he had brought a flea to stand just upon the line where he left , when he was called away from his book , as he had done a mouse and a cock to wake him to mattins ; but as all these things are mortal , it happened that these three dyed , at which the good man was so disconsolate , that he sent to st. columba to comfort him . colganus uses such expressions about these miraculous attendances of the flea and the mouse , that i am ashamed to repeat them ; calling them the familiar condescensions and sportings of christ with his people , which can only seem incredible to those , who do not consider how wonderful god is in his saints . are such as these indeed the favours and condescensions of christ ? pitiful souls ! that can think such sopperies as these , the expressions of gods wonderful goodness to his saints . i confess some of their miracles upon dead cattel were extraordinary ; as when st. mochteus raised up a calf after it was eaten ; when st. moedoc discovered a man that had stollen one of his cattel , and afterward denyed it , by making the ear of it hang out of his mouth . and when st. pa●rick made the goat that was eaten cry out in the belly of the man who had stollen and eaten him . these were very wonderful things , and were they not delivered by such substantial and grave witnesses as these legendary writers , could hardly be believed . we read that christ and his apostles did frequently cast out devils , and that , presently , publickly , without any ceremony ; but we never read they play'd such ridiculous pranks with one another , as the devils and these legendary saints did . st. fintan pull'd the devil out of a man by putting three fingers in his mouth ; and when he had done he confined him to a certain rock , where for all that we know he continues to this day ; for the author of his life saith , he did so till his time , and hurt no body . to d●fend this , colganus flies to gods omnipotency , which indeed makes every thing possible , but barely of it self proves nothing . frier bartholomew of durham was hugely molested with the devil in several shapes , as of a mouse , a lyon , and an ape , sometimes leaping upon his legs , sometimes being ready to choak him , sometimes pulling him by the cowle and casting him on the floor ; at last after many tricks , the stout frier takes a whole pot of holy water and throws it in his face , and then he sneaked away horribly ashamed and confounded . st. benignus was going one night to the church of st. mary in glastonbury ; upon the bridge he espys a devil making toward him ; after some sharp words that passed between them the saint caught hold of him with his left hand , and and with the staff in his right hand , beat him as long as he could stand over him ; and at last threw him into a well , out of which he never arose again : but no persons ever durst come near that well since that time saith capgrave . the devil , watching his opportunity , stole from st. caradoc the eremite , his girdle and purse ; and when the good man was looking for them , he saw the devil standing not far off with them fleering and laughing at him ; but he soon made him restore them again . we must not forget st. dunstans holding the devil by the nose with a red hot pair of tongs , which although mr. cressy sliely passes over , yet his friend alford honestly remembers it ; and speaks of it as an heroical act in him ( as no doubt it was ) in the beginning of his conversion ; a thing without parallel from the time of the devils fall from heaven to this day . no wonder it made him cry out , what hath this bald pate done ? but for all that , the devil would not give him over so ; however he thought fit to change his shape into a bear , st. dunstan finding who he was , falls upon him unmercifully with his pastoral staff , and never gave him over till he had broken his staff upon him into three pieces . the devil plaid forty tricks with st. goodric which capgrave relates ; once he perswaded him to dig for a treasure , and when he had digged a little way , up rose several little black boys with shorn heads , which mocked him and threw stinking pellets in his face : but from that time he would never mind money more : and therein he was too hard for the devil . another time , the devil and he wrestled so long together , that the combat endured nine hours ; and the noise of it was heard by others abroad ; for it seems they were at it both with words and blows . but at last st. goodric said , with the help of the sign of the cross , he feared the devils no more than he did the motion of the air. never was poor man so used by them as st. guthlac in his retirement at crowland ; for they made nothing of binding him and tossing him in the air , and throwing him into lakes and ponds , and whipping him till at last kind st. bartholomew came to his assistance , and made them carry him safe again to the place where they took him up . afterwards he had sufficient revenge upon some of them , for some he made to serve him in his buildings , and one he shut up in a boyling pot . thus we see how far in their ways of combating with the devils , these legendary saints out did christ and his apostles . it was a small matrer with them to raise the dead as christ did lazarus ; but when the head of beoanus was cut off by his enemies , and not to be found , at st. ita's prayers the head came posting through the air , and stood by the body , and she joyned them as fast together , as if they had never been separated , and in the space of an hour he arose as sound and vigorous as ever he was in his life : and these things are written if we believe colganus by a faithful and antient author . but what shall we say to st. patrick , of whom jocelin speaks that he raised up a man that had been dead one hundred years , being grandfather to him for whose satisfaction he was raised . jocelin doth not express the number of years , but st. ewin in colganus doth . jocelin elswhere mentions his raising one that had been ten years dead ; but we are to remember by what instrument st. patrick is said to do these things , viz. by the staff of jesus , which is supposed to have been delivered to him by one who said he had it from christ himself and was the very same he used upon earth . nothing more usual with the irish saints to raise dead cattel as well as men , viz. oxen and horses , calves and hogs , as may be seen abundantly in colganus . one thing i have yet omitted which was very extraordinary ; viz. that the kings only daughter being dead ; they sent to st. gerald to raise her from the dead , who not only did it , but with this pleasant circumstance , to the great joy of the king , turned his daughter into a son at her resurrection . colganus confesses that nothing like this occurs in story , and yet though it seem never so incredible , we ought not to question gods omnipotency ; especially when the matter of fact is so stoutly attested . that which comes nearest to this , is st. abbans changing the sex of a daughter by baptizing her ; as the same colganus reports it ; methinks he need not have troubled himself to have heap'd together so many stories of natural transformations to make these credible . for they who can believe the other miracles contained in the lives of the saints published by him , need not stick at any thing in the world. they who could turn acorns into pork , and which is more a swerd of bacon into a coulter to plow with , both which he reports of one of their saints ; why should not they be able to transsorm one sex into another ? no men can tell what bounds to set to the power of such , who could bring a man from rome to cassells with the sound of a bell , as st. fe●hinus did tyrechanus ; or that could feed a whole army with one small measure of grain for three days together ; and which adds much to it he divided that measure into two parts , whereof the one served for drink , as the other sor meat : as is related of the same wonderful saint . next to him is st. kierans feeding a whole army with a cow and a hog ; as is contained in the lessons to be read upon his day ; but the author of the english martyrology , makes the miracle more considerable , for he saith , that with three cows he fed ten armies for eight days . i● ommend a man that will make something of a story when he hath it in his hands . i shall mention but one thing more , viz. miraculous going upon the water as our saviour did ; and then we shall see that these legendary writers will leave the honour of no one miracle entire to our saviour excepting that of his own resurrection from the dead , which was the greatest of all others ; and to which i do not find that any of them ever so much as pretended . but for passing upon the waters in a miraculous manner , nothing was more common among them ; and scarce any of them did it but exceeded our saviour in some circumstance or other . the sea of galilee on which our saviour walked was but one league over , and three in length ; and upon this he walked only till he came to his ship ; but these legendary saints made nothing of passing from ireland to britain and so back again . st. fanchea had a great mind to see her brother endeus at rome and took three other virgins with her , but commanded them to carry no manner of utensils with them ; but one of them transgressed her command and carried a brass bason with her ; when they came to the sea-shore to pass for england , they missing a ship to transport them , st. fanchea spreads her mantle upon the sea , and walked boldly upon it dry foot , and she and her companions seated themselves upon it ; and the wind blew to their minds but on a sudden one part of the mantle sinks under water . then st. fanchea bid them confess their sins , which when she had done who conveyed away the bason , the saint takes the bason and throws it into the sea , and they came safe to their port in britai● , but for all this , the bason comes again miraculously to her , for st. darercha finding it o● the shore of ireland , and knowing how useful it would be to st. fanchea for the washing her hands , beseeched almighty god ( in so important a business ) to imploy his power that it might be conveyed to her : she tyed another to it and so dispatched them by sea , and both came safe to st. fanchea ; who sends back her own to st. darercha again the same way , and she receiving it gave great thanks to god and his holy angels . was not gods almighty power in the mean time very much a● the beck of these female saints ? whereas , if i be not deceiv'd , the scripture never mentions any miracle wrought by a woman , no not even by the blessed virgin her self . st. fanchea having found this easie passage returned to ireland again after the same manner . st. schotinus was passing over from ireland to wal●● walking upon the sea , and he meets a ship wherein st. barra was , who asked him w●● he walked upon the sea ? schotinus told him he walked in a flowry meadow , and putting down his hand took up a handful of reddis● flowers which he cast into his bosom to convince him . st. barra on the other side took a fish out of the sea which he threw towards sch●tinus to prove it was the sea ; and on both sides , thus playing with miracles , and glorifying god in his wonders they departed from each other , faith colganus . another time he passed over to st. david from ireland on the back of a monstrous great beast in the sea , when he was sent in haste by the angel to prevent st. david's being poisoned . but it is no great wonder he should have so quick a passage by sea , since colganus saith of him , that having great business at rome he was carried from ireland thither in a day : and having dispatched his affairs , returned to ireland in another day . st. moedoc was one day troubled that he had not asked st. david , who was to be his confessor in ireland ; upon this weighty business away he walks over the sea towards wales ; an angel met him upon the sea and chid him for his boldness ; he told the angel he trusted to gods omnipotency and goodness . but the angel ( who it seems by the story was a heretick ) further told him he went upon a needless errand , for he needed no confessor besides god himself , but if he would have a witness of his conscience , he should choose molua . upon this he returns . but he bethinks himself that his bell was in britain ; ( for we must know that the saints in those times made great account of little tinkling cymbals ; so we read of st. gildas his bell consecrated by the pope , and sent to st. cadoc for men to swear by , of st. iltutus his bell , and the miracles done by it , of st. davids bell , and the curing the king of dublin by applying it to his cheek ; but most wonderful was the bell of st. furseus , that when st. cuanna and his disciples were together in the fields , came hovering over them like a bird , and in token of fraternity was sent by him from peron in france ; which comforted them very much : these bells the irish have a strange reverence for to this day , as colganus tells us , and their most solemn oaths are by them . ) and assoon as he had occasion for his cymbal , he saw it swimming over the sea to him ; which he receiving so miraculously gave god thanks for it . st. abban put his staff under his feet and marched into the midst of the sea ; where he was met with a troop of devils , who threatened to drown him , but while he was singing psalms in the midst of them , he heard the angels singing who came to his relief ; then an angel told him he should be the patron of those who pass the seas , and whosoever entring into a ship should call upon him , and say such an irish saying there mentioned should not be drowned : at which he more rejoyced than his own preservation . another time st. ibarus had a mind to go to rome , and st. abban de●ired to go with him , but the other denyed him , while he was sleeping on the shore , the ship puts to sea , when he wakes he sees it sailing at a great distance , he prays and runs into the sea after the ship as fast as he could , and the ship stood still , till he came into it , and then they came speedily and safely to britain . st. moedoes chariot and horses went over a great lake as if it had been dry ground . this was pretty well ( if it were in hot weather ) but i am mistaken if st. walstans herse did not however very much exceed his chariot , for capgrave tells us , that it not only went upon the surface of a very deep water , as if it had been firm ground ; but the very prints of the wheels are said to appear to this day . i confess i was somewhat fearful colganus would have quite put down capgrave or john of tinmouth , or any other of our brave writers of the lives of the saints , but this one passage , puts me in good hopes of the english side . to have made the print of wheels remaining upon a firm ground for so many years would have sounded well ; but to have them seen upon water and in the same place too ( for else the impression would soon have been carried into the sea ) especially if it were a running stream , is a miracle i think can hardly be parallel'd by colganus himself . when st. modwenna and her three virgin companions wanted a convenient passage from ireland to england , an angel did them an extraordinary kindness , saith capgrave , for he cut off that snip of land which they stood upon from the rest , and removing it from its own place , conveyed them to england upon it , and when he had done he settled that island near the castle daganno , in which st. modwenna built a church . st. decuman●● passed over from southwales to somersetshire near dunstar on a bundle of rods ; but st. bernac went much beyond him , for he passed over the sea from little britainy to southwales upon a piece of a rock , which carried him on the surface of the water . this i think is somewhat beyond bare walking on the sea ; but colganus hath something to out-match this , ( as if they writ the lives of the saints for the whetstone ) for st. cuanna , and eight of his disciples standing upon a rock , were carried over the sea to their own country : which rock was afterwards carryed to his cell and he kept seven lents upon it . st. hya went somewhat easier upon a small leaf she saw in the sea , and passed upon that from ireland to cornwall , sooner than st. fingar and all his companions could reach it . this not only is delivered by colganus , but by st. anselm , and is published among his works by picardus . st. patricks altar ought not to be forgotten , for its excellent faculty not only of swimming it self but transporting others over the sea : for when st. patrick was to go over from britain to ireland , a certain leper standing on the shore begged earnestly to be admitted into the ship with him ; the seamen absolutely denyed him . st. patrick out of great pity threw over a stone altar the pope had given him , and bad the leper sit upon that : upon which he went safely to ireland and landed the same moment with them in the ship. david roth in his elucidations upon jocelin consesses this to be somewhat an odd miracle , because , as he very philosophically speaks , it is the nature of a heavy body to tend downwards ; but still this , and all other fabulous miracles must be defended by gods omnipotency . from which argument we must believe every thing that is told us ; because all things are possible with god. how can we then question st. barr's r●ding in the sea on st. davids horse , as if it had been a meadow ? and his meeting st. brendan upon the back of a whale , and after they had saulted each other , and st. brendan's saying , mirabilis deus in sanctis suis , they parted , st. bar landed a horse-back in ireland , and told this wonderful voyage to his disciples , and in memoof this miracle they set up a brazen horse over the image of st. bar. the same argument i suppose will defend the seven years voyage of st. brendan in quest of paradise , which in all respects was the most extraordinary , that ever was made on the sea. which i shall briefly relate out of colganus , capgrave , and john à bosco . st. barinthus coming to visit st. brendan , was desired by him to tell what wonders he had lately seen in the sea ; then st. barinthus related how his disciple mernoc had found an island near a great rock , called the delightful island , whither he had drawn many monks , and many wonders were done among them : which he understanding had a great mind to visit them ; after three days voyage they came out to meet him like swarms of bees , his coming being revealed to them before ; they had no food but apples and nuts , and fruits , and herbs ; after he had observed their orders and discipline , and viewed the island , his disciple mernoc led him to the shore , where a boat lay ready into which they went and made westward towards an island which is called the land of promise which the saints are to inhabit in the last times ; after a sudden darkness and a glorious light succeeding it , they came to the island , where all herbs were in flower , and all trees bore fruit , and no stones in it but jewels ; after fifteen days travel they came to a great river running eastward ; while they were debating how to pass it , one comes to them in great glory , and calling them by their names commanded them to fly back for it was not lawful for them to pass over . while they were ready to ask him impertinent questions , he describes to them the glory of the island , that there was no need of meat , drink , or cloathing there ; that there was perpetual day , for jesus christ was the light of it . assoon as this person had conducted them to their boat , he vanished out of their sight : and they return'd to the delightful island ; and by the smell of their garments their brethren found they had been in paradise ; for that smell lasted above forty days ( as it seems it used to do with those who had been in paradise . ) here barinthius saith , he continued with his disciple two whole weeks longer , and although they neither eat nor drank all that time , yet they seemed as full as if they had been drunk with new wine . after which time he took his leave of the delightful island , and returned to his own cell . st. brendan was so struck with admiration at this pleasant story , that he fell upon his face and praised god for the great discoveries he had made to his people . forthwith st. brendan resolves upon a voyage thither , and out of . monks makes choice of . to go with him , he proposes the keeping a fast of . days , by three days at a time , to prepare themselves for it . after this they prepare a small vessel for themselves ( for it seems they durst not venture to walk on the sea so far ) very light the vessel was , and covered over with tanned hides , greasing all the seams with butter ( which the ancient m. s. in colganus and capgrave expresly mention ) thus taking in provision for . days , they set sail , and had a good gale for . days , then they tugged at their oars till they were all weary , which st. brendan observing , bad them hoyse their sails and let god drive them whither he pleased ; after . days , their provision was quite spent , and then they espied a high rocky island in which after three days , they went on shore , and found a spacious hall furnished with beds , and seats , and water to wash with , and all sorts of utensils of several metals , horses bits , and horns done with silver . here one of the brethren could not hold his hands , but although expresly against st. brenda●s command , he had secretly put up a silver bitt , but upon strict examination he confessed his fault and threw it before them ; then a little black devil went out of him and railed'at st. brendan for dispossessing him ; but he commanded him to hurt no one till ●●e day of judgement . being refreshed here , ●hey put to sea again and came to another ●sland , and after that to one called the para●ise of birds , and for three months after saw ●othing but sea ; at last they came to the ●sland of silence where the monks never ●pake but at prayers ; only the abbot gave an ●ccount to the strangers of their miraculous ●way of living ; for every day they had twelve ●oaves sent them from heaven , and upon ●estivals and sundays twenty four , every one ●hen having a whole loaf : which custom had continued for eighty years with them ever since the dayes of st. patrick , and they never felt cold or heat , and the lamps in their church were kindled from heaven and never diminished with burning ; the altars and all the vessels were made of christal . when any of the monks wanted any thing , they went and kneeled before the abbot , but spake nothing . the abbot by revelation knew what they desired , and writ down his answer in a table-book , and in all that eighty years the abbot protested to st. brendan , he had not heard the voice of a man but only at prayers : and they had none of them felt any infirmity of body or mind since their coming thither . while they were thus discoursing a fiery arrow came from heaven and kindled all the lamps . many other islands they came at with great variety of accidents too many to be transcribed . as their meeting with a great whale that ca●● out fire and water out of his mouth which st. brendan killed by his prayers and gave them a third part of him to eat ; ( which i suppose by the fire and water that came out of him , they believed to be well sodden already ) the strange bird that brought them a bunch of grapes as big as apples ; the griffin that was destroyed by that bird ; the glass sea , in which they could see to the bottom , the christalline pillar that reached up to the sky , covered with so thin a canopy that their ship passed through one of the holes of it , every side of which pillar contained . cubits ; the island of black-smiths , where they heard the anvils as loud as thunder , which proved at last to be the suburbs of hell , as they guessed by the howlings they heard and the stench they smelt : the island of paul the eremit , where he lived for forty years without food , and was all hairy and as white as snow . in the seventh year , saith the life of s. machutes , they came to a certain island where they found a tomb of a wonderful length ; then because of the infidelity of some , who would hardly believe that there ever was a man of that prodigious height , st. brendan and the ●est desired st. machutis to raise him out of ●is grave , which when he to satisfie their ●uriosity had courteously done , they asked ●im who he was , he told them he was a gi●nt ( which i suppose they were convinced of ●y their eyes ) and that his name was mil●●● that he had lain in hell so long , but now ●e was a christian and desired to be bapti●ed ; which was performed by st. machutis ; ●f it were by dipping , it must be done in the ●ea doubtless . this giant gave them the first discovery ●f the island of paradise , for once walking ●n the sea , he said he had seen it , that it was compassed about with a golden wall and ●et as clear as christal , but he being a hea●hen could see no entrance into it . they de●ired him to conduct them thither , he takes the cable of the ship and walks into the sea and drew the ship after him ( which as the author of st. machutis his life well observes ●s a thing one would hardly believe ; but joh. à bosco thinks he hath fully cleared all in ●is notes to which i refer the reader for his ●urther satisfaction ) presently a mighty storm arose so that they were forced back to ●he same island , where the giant died . while ●hey were now debating about their return home , they beheld a small island in the sea ; when they were landed upon it , they desire● st. machutis to say mass and when they cam● to pater noster they found the island give a terrible shrug , which put them all into a fright , a● last they discovered their island to be a gre●● whale , or as the most judicious among them thought , the leviathan ; we may well thin● they made hast with their mass , and wishe● themselves well off of this new island ; upon st. machutis his prayers leviathan di● not sport himself in the waters but stood still , till the monks were got clear of him , the● they sung jubilate in their ship , and as that author saith , returned home . but he wa● certainly mistaken , for capgrave saith , the● did at last find the island of paradise and a●● things answerable to st. barinthus's description : and staid there forty days , and then 〈◊〉 young man bid st. brendan load his shi● with jewels and return home ; for that isla●● was reserved for their successors when tim●● of persecution should happen . now to pro●● the truth of this story , ( for it seems the● were some infidels that presumed to question it , ) colganus reckons up abundance of the acts of the saints wherein it is mentioned , and not only so but a book of litanies , above . years old wherein the companions o● st. brend●n in seeking the land of promis● are solem●ly invocated ; and the very day is se● down in their ancient martyrologie : and when st. brendan was returned , he gave an account of his voyage to st. abban , which he did by the command of an angel , saith the author of his life ; which colganus calls an illustrious testimony of the truth of it . thus having given an account of this miraculous voyage , and despairing to meet with any thing like it , i here give over my enquiry into the miracles which have been received and believed in the roman church , in the most considerable parts of europe . and now , without farther reflections upon them , i leave the reader to judge , whether the testimony on which they have been received , ought to be compared in point of credibility , with that testimony on which the christian church hath believed the miracles of christ and his apostles . only one thing i desire may be observed , viz. that i have not raked their kennels , nor made use of the authorities of jacobus de voragine , petrus de natalibus , claudius rota , cantiprata●us , and such like ; no nor yet of caesarius ab heisterbach , dauroultius , marulus , gononus , or such as have made collections to my hands , but have taken their most approved and late writers , and such whose authorities themselves make use of in other things . capgrave , is supposed to have taken most of his lives out of john of tinmouths sanctilogi●● , whom pits commends for his excellent learning , and that work particularly , for his diligence , exactness , wit and judgement which he shewed in it ; that he cut off many superfluous things with discretion ; and if capgrave took out of him , we may suppose that aft●● so many strainings we have only the best left ; considering the character that is given of capgrave ; an excellent divine saith possevin ; the chief of his time for piety and learning saith harpsfield ; the most learned man that ever was of his order in england , say josephus pamphilus and others in pits ; a man of such excellent parts and wit saith pits himself , that he had scarce any equal , none superiour in england in his time : and among other things he commends him for his judgement and therefore his authority will not be rejected as mean and contemptible among themselves . colganus his first tome of the acts of the saints of ireland , which i have only made use of , was published at lovain a. d. . with great approbations from the general of his order at rome , from the professors of lovain , from the ordinary censor librorum , from four jesuits , and by commendatory epistles from vernulaeus and erycius puteanus who highly applauds him for his industry , piety and faithfulness ; therefore my adversaries cannot pretend that i have picked up some old worm●aten stories with which to disgrace their miracles : no , they are such as are thought fit to be published with as great approbation , as ever any books come forth among them . and for the jesuits collection at antwerp , which i have sometimes made use of , begun by bollandus and continued by henschenius and papebrochius , it was published since a. d. . and with as much ostentation of care and judgement as ever any thing was set forth in that kind ; the last volume i have yet seen , came forth a. d. . with sufficient approbations . so that whatever judgement be passed upon the miracles , they cannot deny the books i have made use of to be of greatest authority of any extant in this kind ; and yet after all , i am apt to think they will meet with a great deal of infidelity from all that have not captivated their understandings to the obedience of the roman faith. § . . having thus far shewed how much the miracles boasted of in the roman church fall short in point of credibility of those of christ and his apostles , from the different nature of the testimonies , and of the miracles themselves ; i now proceed to the second thing , viz to shew that the credibility of the wilnesses in the roman church is taken away by the testimony of persons much more credible than themselves . for if the most impartial witnesses utterly deny , that there is any comparison to be made between the miracles wrought in the church in latter-ages with those wrought by christ and hls apostles , if persons living in the communion of that church , have asserted such things concerning their miracles , as sufficiently discover , that their testimony is not to be relied upon ; then i appeal to the judgement of any man whether it be not intolerable impudence in any to parallel the mlracles of that church with those of christ and his apostles ? . the most impartial witnesses have asserted the direct contrary to e. w. viz. by affirming that no comparison is to be made between the miracles of after-ages of the church and those of christ and his apostles . the most impartial witnesses in this case must be men of approved sanctity on both sides , persons of great judgement and experience , and that lived at such a time when no interest could byass them to favour one side more than the other . and such in all respects were st. chrysostom and st. augustin ; to them therefore we appeal in this matter . st. chrysostom not once or twice , but several times and upon very different occasions delivers his opinion upon this subject . in his commentaries upon the first epistle of st. paul to the corinthians and the five first verses , puts this question 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; for whose sake is the power of miracles now forbidden ? which he at large discusses in that place . the substance of his answer is this ; either the persons who put that question do believe the miracles wrought by christ or his apostles , or they do not ; if not , let them give an account how the christian religian which is so contrary to the present interests of men should prevail so much in the world as it hath done : for if they believed without miracles that would appear to be a far greater miracle . but , saith he , because no miracles are wrought now , make not that an evidence that none were wrought then ; for then it was useful there should be miracles , and now it is useful there should not . can any testimony be plainer and more express than this ? is it possible he should believe as great miracles were done in the church afterwards as by christ and his apostles , that not only asserts that there were none , but saith it would not be useful to the church there should be any ? because as he adds immediately after , those who preach now do not preachly inspiration as the apostle did , but only that doctrine which they receiv●d from them : and therefore make use of their miracles to confirm the truth of what they spake . but why , saith he , were miracles useful then and not now ? because the continual working of miracles would lessen faith , and our saviour saith , blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed . but if thou wilt not be convinced without signs , thou maist see signs , although not such as christ and his apostles wrought , viz. the accomplishment of prophesies ; several of which he there mentions . why then , saith he , do not all believe now ? to which he gives this answer , that the first christians did not believe only on the account of the miracles they saw , but by seeing the holy and exemplary lives of those who wrought them ; it is , saith he , therefore the want of the primitive sanctity rather than miracles which makes men yet continue in their insidelity : let those that have a mind to be saved search the scriptures , wherein they will find both the miracles they wrought and the holy conversations which they led . but if a man be found that hath any foot-steps left of the ancient wisdom he presently leaves the city and conversation , and betakes himself to the mountains , a fair pretence is made for this to prevent the deadning of devotion ; as though it were not better to be duller and to gain others , than remaining in a mountain to see round about thee thy brethren destroyed . as he excellently speaks , though i doubt with little satisfaction to the monastick pretenders to perfection in the roman church . elsewhere complaining of the degenerate lives of christians , from whence now , saith he , shall christians be perswaded to believe ? from miracles ? 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but those are not now wrought . who is there now a days saith he , in another place to be compared with st. paul , who had such a divine power going along with his preaching ; who was terrible to devils if he only appeared and said nothing ; but if all we were met together with a thousand prayers and tears , we could not do so much as st. pauls handkerchief did . and is it possible to believe that st. chrysostom ever thought the miracles of after ages could be compared with those of christ and his apostles ? no , he utterly blasts the testimony of such who afterwards have pretended to miracles , unless they can shew a plain reason why miracles should cease in st. chrysostoms time , and be so common again afterwards . it is evident that the world was not so fully converted to christianity then , but there was as great occasion for miracles , as could be pretended in succeeding ages ; all the difference that i can find was , that men were honester and wiser then ; but as the christian world degenerated from the piety and goodness of the primitive times it pretended to come nearer to the age of christ and his apostles in doing wonders . to the same purpose with st. chrysostom speaks the author of the imperfect work upon st. matthew , who hath sometimes gone under st. chrysostom's name : and herein differs not at all from him , for he saith , that formerly true christians were differenced from the false by the miracles which they wrought ; the false christians either not being able to work any , or not such as the true christians wrought ; but empty signs such as caused admiration , but brought no benefit with them . but now , saith he , this working of miracles is wholly taken away and only pretended to by false christians . let e. w. and such as he , consider these words , and see who they are that pretend to miracles since the primitive days , carolus seribanus who undertook to write a defence of lipsius his virgo hallensis , thinks to escape this testimony by saying , that this author only denys such kind of miracles to continue still as w●re in the apostles times , viz. the speaking and understanding tongues . but e. w. makes no limitation at all , nay he not only saith the same , but greater miracles have been done in the roman church ; and it is apparent that ●hese very miracles have been pretended to ●n the roman church , as not only concerning st. vincentius ferrerius but many others be●ore him . we are told by some that ephroem syrus understood the greek tongue by the ●rayers of st. basil ; but baronius himself ex●lodes it for a fable , however it be still be●ieved by others . if capgrave and such wri●ers may be credited , st. david , st. paternus , st. theliaus all preached at hierusalem in their own language , and the people understood them as if they had spoken in theirs . some such exposition they had heard of the apostles speaking in strange tongues on the day of pentecost , and because these were at hierusalem , the same miracle must be related of them . but methinks , they should not have lost the gift they had of speaking in the languages of the several countries they passed through , which is likewise attributed to them ; for if god gave them such a miraclous gift only for the conveniency of travelling , it seems hard they should want it when they were to preach at hierusalem . st. goodric spake french to a monk on the day of pentecost saith capgrave , although he never understood that language before ; which is not very probable , in so great a traveller as he represents him to be . but the greatest instance of this kind is e. w's admirable saint st. vincent●us ferrerius , of whom two strange miracles are related , one that speaking in one tongue , he was understood by his auditors of several countries in their own languages , another that although people were at never so grea● distance from him ( for they say he had sometimes . auditors ) yet he was easily heard by them all . had not this man an admirable voice , or the people admirable ears ! mariana saith this happened to none but him from the apostles days . and yet ribadineira relates the very same thing of st. anthony of padua ; and that he was heard at two miles distance : which is likewise affirmed by the writer of his life printed before his works , and by hermannus sch●idel , sed●lius and others . nay ribadineira tells tha● st. ludgard speaking dutch , was perfectly understood by some french women that understood only their own language . it seems then this was not st. vincentius his pecu●iar gift , if it were his at all . i find that raynaldus and spondanus appeal to the testimony of nicol. de clemangis concerning this miraculous gift : who was secretary to pope benedict the thirteenth to whom st. vincentius had been master of the palace at avignon . of him clemangis saith , that it is not improbably beli●ved that he had the gift of tongues : he dares not we see absolutely affirm it , al●hough he heard him preach at genoa . but ●hat arguments doth he produce for it ? one ●s , that although he were a spaniard , he ●pake italian so readily and distinctly that even 〈◊〉 women understood him . and is it such ● miracle for a spaniard to speak italian well ●hat it ought to be compared with the apo●tles gift of tongues ? but the great wonderment is yet behind , viz. that though he spake ●talian words yet all people of other nations ●nderstood him : and for this he only tells us , ●e heard a german say some such thing , and ●or his own part , although he did searce half ●nderstand italian , yet he perfectly under●tood what he said . which is no such great ●onder considering the matter of his preach●ng chiefly on one subject of the day of judge●ent , which requiring the use of such words as are taken from the latine , may easily be ●nderstood by a person who thorowly under●●ands latine , though he be not perfect in italian . the whole credit therefore of this ●iracle depends upon the testimony of this german ; and who can tell how much he understood either of his sermon or of the ita●ian tongue ? for he saith no more , than ●hat he understood him as well as if his words had been spoken in his own tongue : which surely he might do without a miracle , unless it were a miracle for a german to understan● italian . but concerning this , and all th● other supposed miracles of this admirabl● saint , we have a remarkable testimony 〈◊〉 one of the ablest men of that age , ( th● knew vincentius , and a letter of his is exta●● which he writ to him ; wherein he expresse● no such admiration of him ) and that is th● famous chancellor of paris , john gerso● ▪ he wrote a discourse against the sect of whi●pers , ( which by the preaching and enco●ragement of vincentius was again revived , and . saith rauzanus in his life followed him up and down , many of which did so soundly lash themselves according to vincentius his instructions , that he saith some account it a miracle that none fell into any sickness by it ) . in which discourse he lays op●● the folly of this sect , and saith , men mig●● as well brand themselves with hot irons 〈◊〉 castrate themselves , as hope to expiate their si●● by such bloody whippings of their bodies . but besides this , vincentius preached of the very ne●● approach of antichrist and the day of judgement , both which gerson dislikes in him ; b●● saith he , if any man offers to bring new miracles to confirm the near approach of antichrist let him know that the world is in i●● dotage and therefore is easily imposed upon by the apparitions of false miracles . as an old man is troubled with dreams in his sleep ; therefore , saith he , miracles are now to be ve●emently suspected , unless a very diligent ex●mination be first made of them . see now what judgement this truly great man in that age , passes upon these pretended miracles of this admirable saint ! however , it hence appears that in the church of rome they have not pretended to any one sort of miracles alone ; but let them be of what kind soever , some among them ( setting only aside their own resurrection from the dead ) have challenged to themselves the glory of them . but after all , this is a miserable shift to avoid this testimony ; for this author makes no other difference of signs ; than that the miracles of false christians were only in appearance , and brought no advantage to the world ; whereas the miracles of the true christians were real and beneficial to the world ; but now , saith he , this working of miracles is wholly taken away : and only false christians pretend to it . which testimony is so strong that i expect no other answer to it , than calling the author of it heretick and arrian . but against st. chrysostom , he objects more plausibly , viz. from the daily wonders which he confesses are wrought by the martyrs : and particularly by babylas when the d●vil told julian his mouth was stopt at the oracle 〈◊〉 daphne , since babylas his bones were lai●● there . it is not to be denied , that st. chr●sostom did look upon this as a wonderfu●● thing ; and saith afterwards that the devil still expressed such consternation at the shrin●● of the martyrs as might convince the im●●dence of such who disbelieved the miracles 〈◊〉 the apostles . but st. chrysostom speaking o● these extraordinary things which were do●● by the martyrs calls them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and no● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as he does the other ; for he saith exprefly , that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were ceased , i. e. a●● such miracles as gave any testimony to the infallible commission which persons had from god to deliver his doctrine ; but yet the●● were may 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 still done by the martyrs , i. e. such extraordinary things which we cannot suppose god would permit to happen , if these martyrs had not been highly in favour with god. ; and therefore these were only attestations of their sanctity in a time when they were so much despised as they were by j●lian and his followers , and when paganism began to recover again ; and it was very agreeable , with the wisdom and methods 〈◊〉 divine providence in an extraordinary manner to vindicate the innocency of the martyrs ; as he did in the case of babylas to j●lian himself , by stopping the oracle by the nearness of his bones to the temple of daphne , ●nd when they were removed , by setting the ●emple on fire in so wonderful a manner as ● is at large related by st. chrysostom and ●e ecclesiastical historians of that time . the same account we are to give of st. au●stins opinion in this matter . in his book 〈◊〉 true religion , having shewed how neces●ary miracles were to confirm the authority ●f those who were sent by god to declare his ●ill , he adds that by their working mira●les they are become unnecessary to us now : ●or saith he , since the catholick church is now ●stablished and diffused through the world , miracles are not suffered to continue to our ●imes ; that we may not always seek after vi●●ble things , and left custom should abate the ●steem of them . much to the same purpose ●e discourses in his book of the usefulness of believing against the manichees ; where he ●hews the necessity that there was of miracles ●o confirm the christian faith at first , and the nature of the miracles wrought by christ and his apostles , and then puts the question as st. chrysostom did , cur , inquis , ista modo non fiunt ? why are not such miracles w●●● ght now ? to which he answers , because miracles would not move men if there were not something wonderful in them ; and there would be nothing wonderful if they were common . it is true that st. augustin did consider both these places in his book of retractations ( not as though he recanted every thing which he handles there , for retractati●● in st. augustins sense was no more than to review ) for mentioning the former saying ; he adds , that it is true , for , saith he , the miraculous gifts of tongues are not now poured out when hands are laid on the baptized , nor are sick persons healed at the shadow of the preachers of christ and many other such things , which it is certain are now ceased , but he would not have it so understood as though no miracles at all were then wrough● in the name of christ ; for then , he saith , he knew that a blind man was healed at the shrines of the martyrs of milan ; and s● many other such things were done that they could neither know them all nor enumeralt those he did know . and to the other place , he saith , that he gave that answer , because neither so many nor so great miracles a●● wrought now as were by christ or his apostoles . and can any sayings be more contradictory than this of st. augustins and e. w's asserting , that as many and as gre●● ( nay greater ) miracles are wrought sinc●●●● ever were in their days . it is true that st. augustin doth there say , that there were so●● miracles still left in the church , and he produces several instances elsewhere ; but in the ●●me place he denies the necessity of these ●iracles since the large propagation of chri●●ianity in the world , and accounts him a ●odigie that yet seeks after prodigies to con●●m his faith . only he shews gods extra●●dinary kindness to his church in that time while there were so many pagans yet left ●mong them ) that he did not leave them without some testimonies of his miraculous power in the cure of diseases at the memories of the mariyrs or upon the prayers of the faithful , of which he there gives several examples : but elsewhere he shews , that the mi●acles wrought by christ and his apostles were ●rought for the benefit and satisfaction of future ages as well as their own , that so none might complain for want of a power of miracles . and when the donatists aftewards appealed to the miracles wrought by donatus and pontius , and to visions and revelations ; st. augustin very smartly bids them lay aside those feigned miracles or diabolical impostures : for either they were not true , or if they were , we have so much the more reason to beware of them ; because our saviour hath foretold that false prophets should arise working signs and wonders , that if it were possible they should deceive the very elect. but it may be said , that in all this st. augustin doth only upbraid the schismatical donatists wit● lying miracles and not take away the evidence of miracles from the true church ; 〈◊〉 that st. augustin himself answers , that the catholicks do not bring the evidence of miracles to prove the true church by , nor yet o● visions and revelations ; for , saith he , 〈◊〉 such things are to be approved , because they are done in the catholick church ; and n●● that the church is proved to be catholic● because such things are done in it : and therefore saith , that controversie of the church must be ended by the scriptures . from whence it necessarily follows that st. augustin could never think the miracles done in his time , were to be compared with those wrought by christ or his apostles , or could give equal evidence of credibility either concerning the doctrine or the church which delivered it . never did two men more plainly contradict each other in this point than st. augustin and e. w. who appeals to miracles for proof of the catholick and infallible church , and such as are equal to those of christ and his apostles ; but whether st. augustin or e. w. deserve the greater credit that is another controversie which i am not now at leisure to engage in . to the same purpose st. augustin speaks in another place , viz that miracles are no proof of the true church ; for though pontius and do●atus might do wonders and see visions , yet christ hath now forewarned us , quia & miraculis decipi non debemus , we ought not now to be deceived by miracles . the force of which argument from our saviours caution depends upon this , viz. that the christian religion being once established by plain and evident miracles , there would be no necessity in after ages to have recourse to miracles again : for if no new doctrine be delivered , what need can there be of new miracles ? let no man therefore now complain saith the same st. augustin , because christ doth not work the same miracles now that he did in former times ; for he hath said blessed are they which have not seen and yet have believed ; whom doth he mean , saith he , but us , and those who are to come after us : but those miracles were wrought by christ to draw men to faith ; and this faith is now spread over the world . and now although he does not work the same cures , he does greater ; now the blind eyes do not receive sight by a miracle of christ , but the blind hearts do see by the doctrine of christ ; now dead bodies are not raised , but souls that are dead , in living bodies do rise again . now deaf ears are not opened , but deaf minds are by the power of gods word , so that they believe and live well , who were unbelievers and wicked and disobedient . could any man of common sense have used these expressions ; if he had thought there was either any necessity of miracles being wrought in his time , or that there were such miracles then wrought which might be compared with those of christ and his apostles ? and as he elsewhere fully speaks to this purpose ; sign● and miracles were wrought by the apostles to bring men from infidelity to faith ; that men seeing those things done which are impossible with men , may acknowledge that the preaching is from god , by which power they were to prove that there was reason to believe . among believers then signs and miracles are not not necessary ; but only a firm hope . from these testimonies of st. augustin thus laid together we observe these things . . that the main intention of miracles was to convince unbelievers . . that the christian faith being established , there was no longer any necessity of the power of miracles . . that though there were not any such necessity ; yet god out of his abundant kindness , was pleased to do some extraordinary things among them in their time . . that in disputes about the true church they never appealed to the power of miracles ; but to the scriptures whose doctrine was already confirmed by miracles . . that those out of the true church might make as great a pretence to miracles , visions and revelations as those who were in it , as appears by the donatists . . that some kind of miracles were wholly ceased then in the church , as the gift of tongues and the common miraculous cures of diseases by those that preached . . that those which did then remain , were not in any respect for number or quality to be compared with those of christ and his apostles ; as the cure of one blind man at mi●●n , or those other cures of a cancer , a fistula , or the two shaking persons in africa : for when himself speaks most favourably of the miracles then wrought , he saith they were not so great , nor so many , as those done by christ or his apostles . § . . but what shall we now say to the succeeding ages of the church ? for after the first years were passed , and there were no more st. chrysostoms , or st. augustins , and one of the greatest prodigies , ( as tully said of old ) was a wise man , the pretence of the common working of miracles was again started , by those who undertook to give an account of the lives of the saints ; for they thought they said nothing in effect of them if they did not attribute the power of miracles upon any occasion to them . then st. gregory and st. bede shewed the way to the rest , and by their own credulity and want of judgement gave a pattern and encouragement to all the monkish tales and impostures afterwards . but we must acknowledge our obligation to some more ingenuous and judicious men in the roman church , who in several ages have blasted the credit , and discovered the impostures of these legendary writers : which is the next thing i am to prove ; viz. . that the credibility of their miracles in the church of rome , is destroyed by the testimony of their own more judicious writers . ludovicus vives , after he hath discoursed of all other histories , comes to that of the church , and particularly the lives of the saints , of which he saith , that they are generally corrupted with abundance of lies , while the writer indulges his own passion , and sets down not what the saints did , but what he would have had him done : so that in their lives we see the mind of the writer , and not the truth . for there have been those who thought it a piec● of pie●y to tell lies for religion : which is a very dangerous thing lest by that means the true be rejected for the sake of the false . this saying of vives melchior canus , a man highly esteemed in the church of rome , recites and approves , with a great deal more to the same purpose , wherein he saith , that the lives of the philosophers are more severely written by laertius than the lives of the saints by christians , and that suetonius hath with more honesty and integrity delivered the acts of the caesars than the catholicks have done the acts of martyrs , virgins and confessors . and afterwards he charges them with wilful falsefying either only to deceive or to gain by it , of which the one is sordid and the other pernicious : and he produces some instances of such miracles , which he saith , are without number . neither doth he only understand this of such men as the author of the golden legend , or of the speculum exemplorum ; but he plainly confesses , that their most grave writers in reporting the miracles of saints have followed uncertain reports and conveyed them to posterity . in which they either gave great liberty to themselves or yeilded too much to the desires of the people , whom they found not only ready to believe these miracles , but to be fond and greedy of them . therefore , saith he , they have reported some signs and miracles ; not that they did willingly believe them themselves , but because they would not be wanting to the pious desire of the people ; which was it seems , that they should tell lies to please them . and if they had not their desires fully answered in this , they were very insatiable . after this , he particularly instances in bede and gregory , the one of which in his history , the other in his dialogues he charges with relating miracles upon common reports , which the criticks of th●● age will judge to be uncertain . and we may be sure canus , who tells us , what an excellent wit his master victoria said he had , was one of them . but is now the credibility of the miracles in the roman church to be compared with that of christ and his apostles ? did they who writ the miracles recorded of them indulge their own affections , and make tales to please the people ; as we see canus saith their gravest writers of miracles did ? or did they take up things upon common rumors , and from thence divulge them to posterity ? as we see canus charges even st. gregory , and st. bede with doing . what would become of our christianity , if we had no better grounds to believe the miracles of christ and his apostles ? if any should say so of the reporters of their miracles they would be justly charged with betraying the doctrine of christianity , and making it suspectd to be a fourb , an imposture a fabulous story , as e. w. speaks in the case of the miracles related by st. antonin : and yet m●lchior canus expresly saith of him , that he did not make it his business to wri●● what w●● true and certain , but to let nothing pass that he could meet with : and that he and vincentius belovacensis were so far from weighing what they writ in an exact ballance , that they did not so much as make use of a common judgement . whereas our critical e. w. saith . and who dares say that so great a doctor and most modest prelate as st. antonin was so frontless as to write that we read without assurance and certainty ? we see melchior canus dares say it ; and that not only of st. antonin whom he looks on as far inferior to the other , but of his venerable bede too , whom e. w. calls a great scholar , and a man highly esteemed the whole christian world over ; i shall not go about to diminish his reputation in other things ; but he had need of a good easie faith that can swallow the miracles related by him , whether those of st. cuthbert , which e. w. mentions or others . what must we think of the angels appearing to s. cuthbert a horseback when he was a boy , and prescribing him a poultess to cure his sore knee ? and of his seeing the gates of heaven opened and the soul of st. aidan conveyed through them by a troop of angels ? of his receiving three hot loaves from an angel , that were whiter than lillies & smelt beyond roses , and tasted sweeter than hony ? of his frighting the crows from stealing the thatch off from the covent , and the penance they submitted to for the injury they had done , and the satisfaction they made by bringing him a good piece of lard with which he used afterwards to grease his boots ? of the vertue of his shoo 's in curing a man of a palsie after st. cu●●bert's death , being put on upon his feet ? of these i shall only ask e. w's . question , an any such s●en now a days wrought among protestant bishops ? no , god knows their faith is a stranger to such kind of miracles . but what shall we say to canus who takes away the authority of st. gregory too as well as bede in this matter of miracles ? i know baronius falls very soul upon canus for speaking so freely of st. gregory in this particular , especially because he doth not mention those miracles which he looks on as undeserving credit ; but i think he ought to have thanked him for his modesty and silence herein , in not exposing gregories credulity to contempt by insisting upon them . but in truth st. gregory in those books of dialogues ( for i see no reason to deny them to be his own ) was the father of legends , and most of the others afterwards were made in imitation of his ; as might be particularly made appear by many instances . and bede followed the copy which gregory had set him , and from hence such a swarm of legends arose , that in the succeeding ages it is hard to say whether there were more ignorance or wonders . to give only a tast of some of the miracles reported by gregory ; the first is of honoratus the abbot that stopt a great stone in the middle of its falling from a great mountain by making the sign of the cross towards it , and there it is seen hanging as it were in the air . but in my opinion st. dunstan out-did him , who not only , saith capgrave stopt a piece of timber so falling , but with the sign of the cross made it return back to the place from whence it sell. this was the greater miracle although the other had more to shew for it ; if the stone had hung quite in the air ; which i confess i do a little question . libertinus raised one from the dead by honoratus his shoe being laid upon his breast , saith gregory as st. cuthberts shoo 's in bede cured a man of the palsie . the gardiner of the monastery being troubled with a thief that came over the hedge , and stole his herbs commanded a serpent to follow him and to lie just cross in the way he was wont to come over ; the serpent presently obeyed , the thief was taken and the serpent released . from hence afterwards , he scarce deserved the name of a saint of whom they could not tell some extravagant stories of the power he had over serpents : of which multitudes of instances may be seen in colganus and capgrave besides many other more ancient than they . the story of st. equitius in gregory and st. elias in capgrave , as to t●● way of their being delivered from all lust●● thoughts by an angel appearing in the nig●● and seeming to castrate them , is the very same by which we see out of what magazineth later legendaries took their materials , whi●● they altered and adorned with such varieti●● of circumstances as would best go down wi●● the people . methinks then baronius migh●● have let alone canus in this matter , and no● provoked others to give an account of th● soppish miracles contained in that primitiv● legend , such as , the devils entring into nun because she eat a lettice in the gard●● without crossing it ; and when st. equiti● demanded of him what he did there , the d●● answered , he was sitting upon the lettice a●● she came and eat him up ; but it was well f● her that st. equitius sent him going witho●● prescribing her a vomit : as , nonnosus 〈◊〉 removing a stone by his prayers , which fif●● yoke of oxen could not stirr , and all this f● no other end but only to make way for a litt● kitchin garden for the monks : as , the sa● mans praying the pieces of a glass lamp wh●● again , only for fear of the displeasure of 〈◊〉 superior : which was a substantial reason fo● so pretty a miracle . and his multiplying o● by a miracle rather than the lazy monks shoul● 〈◊〉 out to gather olives : as , boniface's re●iving . crowns by a miracle , because his ●ephew complained be had opened his chest ●nd had taken a way so many from him to give 〈◊〉 the poor ; and his adjuring all the erue's 〈◊〉 his garden in the name of christ to be gone ●nd ●ot eat up his herbs , which they imme●iately did , and not one remained : and ●aking the fox by his prayers bring back the ●●llet he had stollen , because he complained 〈◊〉 god almighty in the church , ( whither he ●un upon this sad disaster ) that he could eat ●one of his mothers poultry : as , martirius 〈◊〉 signing the cake in the embers with the sign ●f the cross without touching it ; only making 〈◊〉 towards the fire , at which it gave a great ●●ack and was perfectly signed with the cross ●hen they took it out . these may serve only for a ●ast of the kind of these miracles out of his first book , that men may judge with what reason canus made such exceptions to gregories au●hority in this point of miracles . it would be too ●edious to give an account of the miracles in his ●hree other books , but they are so much alike , ●hat by seeing these we may judge of the rest . thus we see the opinion of vives and canus about the testimony on which miracles are believed in the roman church ; but we must not think these persons were singular in this opinion ; for in several ages men of any honesty and judgement have complained of t● pious frauds which have been used in the matters : and that some thought them la●● to be used as long as they were for the hono● of the church or the saints . so petrus d● miani saith there were some who thought th● honoured god by making lies to extoll the ●●tues of his saints ; which words he uses up● this occasion of miracles ; and goes abo● seriously to confute them , by telling them th● god doth not stand in need of our lies ; 〈◊〉 to the same purpose he speaks in the pres● to the lives of st. maurus and of domini● ferratus written by him . what secu●● can there be then , of the miracles repon● by them who think it lawful to invent lies 〈◊〉 the honour of the church or of the suppos● saints who live and dye in it ? if the primiti● church had made lying for the sake of ch●●stianity lawful , it would have been the mo●● reasonable pretence for infidelity , that co●● be supposed . for how can any man thi● himself obliged to believe another , that do●● not think himself obliged to speak truth ? 〈◊〉 the primitive christians had made lying 〈◊〉 indifferent thing all their sufferings could hav● given no security of the truth of their test●mony , for notwithstanding the falshood 〈◊〉 their testimony , they might then hope however , to be rewarded in another world , an● consequently might suffer any thing here ; ●t when they declared at the same time , that ●ing was utterly unlawful , and yet ventured suffer the utmost extremity to attest the ●uth of their testimony ; this gives the high●● credibility to the things asserted by them . ●t we have no satisfaction as to either of ●●ese things in the witnesses of the miracles in ●e roman church ; no man hath ever lost much as a finger to give testimony to one ●iracle among them , and supposing they ●●ould suffer , we have no assurance but they ●ight think it lawful to lie for their religion ; ●●d therefore all their sufferings could not ●ove the truth of their testimony . we have 〈◊〉 sentence or declaration of their church ●●ainst pious frauds ; but we have large con●ssions from their own writers of the practice them , and the good end they are designed 〈◊〉 , viz. to keep up the devotion of the people . ●●n gerson honestly confesses this to be the ●d of the legends and miracles of the saints ●nd their visions and revelations so much ●lked of in the roman church viz. to stirr up ●piety and good affections of the people : for ●ese things , saith he , are not proposed by 〈◊〉 church to be believed as true ; but they are ●ther to consider them as things that might done , than as things that were done . and i● no matter , saith he , if some things that are really false are piously believed ; so that th●● be not believed as false or known to be false the same time . and i wish he had added o● condition more , viz. that the infallibilit● of the church be not to be proved by them for in that case i hope it is of some litt●● concernment whether they be true or false . b● are we not like to meet with credible test● monies in such things where the most hone● and learned among them think it is no gre● matter whether they be true or false ? n● wonder then , that lyra complains of t●● frauds used by the priests in the churches 〈◊〉 make the people believe that miracles wo● wrought ; no wonder , that cajetan so mu●● slights the argument drawn from modern miracles and revelations and saith it is only 〈◊〉 for old women ; could any man have do● this , that had believed them to be any oth●● than cheats and impostures ? especially in 〈◊〉 solemn a matter as the immaculate conceptio● and in a discourse addressed to leo . an● prepared for the lateran council . by whic● we see , that the learned and wise men amon● themselves when they are put to declare the●● minds , speak as freely of these matters , as w● can do ; but still they think it fit the commo● people should be cheated and deceived by them ; so a learned and ingenuous writer o● the french church and doctor of the sorbo● tells us , that he was so far from receiving ●anks from many for laying open the fables ●●d impostures of the monks , that they re●●rred him to polybius his judgement about ●●ese matters ; who determines , that allowance ●●ght to be given to those writers who invent ●iracles and stories to keep up the devotion of ●he people . the occasion of polybius delivering ●is judgement of his was this , it seems the ●eathen priests made almost as many and as ●oolish stories of miracles about their images , ●s they are wont to do in the church of rome ; ●mong the rest , it was verily believed among ●he bargelietae that the image of diana being ●xposed to the air could receive no injury ei●her by snow or rain ; and the same was be●ieved of the image of vesta among the jassi●ns : and these miracles were written by their historians . but polybius declares his great oppo●ition to these follies ; such saith he , as the mi●acle theopompus relates of jupiter's temple in arcadia , that the bodies of those who are in ●t never cast any shadows . yet he yeilds , that something of this nature must be done to keep up the devotion of the people ; but he would have it within bounds , although , he saith , it be very hard to determine those bounds . now saith launoy , this saying of polybius i have been often told of by all sorts of men who pretended hereby to secure christian piety , but i found them worse than polybius ; for he would have bounds set , but these will allow none . for they judge of all things by the absoluteness of gods power ; and regard not whether the things were done or no , as long as they might be done . but as he excellently adds , a false religion indeed , according to polybius , stands in need of such cheats and trick● to support it ; but true religion wants no such helps ; the more simple , pure and innocent it is , it is so much the greater and more glorious ; it is corrupted when it hath any thing unlike it self mixed with it . they who think otherwise of christian religion do not know it ; but design to make a religion out of truth and falshood . thus far that ingenuous man. by whom we see what the opinion is , which the more sagacious persons in the roman church have of these monkish tales and impstoures ; yet they generally are for keeping them up in as much credit with the people , as they can , and discountenance those who go about to undeceive them . but is not the testimony of these things by their own confession very credible the mean while , and fit to be compared with the testimony upon which the miracles of christ and his apostles is received in the christian church ? it is hard to think that such men do believe christianity in their hearts that dare publish such impudent comparisons . when the impostures of this nature in the church of rome , have been , like astrology in old rome , alwaies complained of and always practised : as will easily appear to any one that will peruse the testimonies brought by launoy in that discourse concerning counterfeit saints , relicks and miracles , which i shall not transcribe . the whole christian world is obliged to the ingenuity of such men who have taken pains in the discovery and confutation of such impostures ; as the monks have abused the people with . but we are not only beholding to such learned men who have purposely done this , but to those who have lately published such writings of the middle ages whereby we understand their history far better than we could do before . as for instance to our present purpose : among other very useful things published by lucas d'achrey we have the works of guibert abbot of nogent in france , who lived in the beginning of the . century a time brim full of miracles and superstition : in his works we have a discourse of the relicks of the saints , which was occasioned by a pretence the monks of st. medard made to a tooth of our saviour , wherein he begins with a complaint of the dishonour which is put upon the saints by the false stories which are made of them , and then proceeds to the false saints which were worshipped by them , as saint piron , whom upon enquiry he found to have fallen drunk into a well and so dyed , yet this man was worshipped , he saith , both in britain and in france : and after telling some ridiculous miracles which he was willing however to believe to be true , he falls upon the false and counterfeit ones ; of which , he saith , that they who ascribe to god that which he never thought to do , as much as lies in them make god a lyer : and he produces this instance of his own knowledge ; a certain boy that belonged to a souldier happened to dye upon good friday ; the people were ready to attribute great sanctity to him for dying upon that day ; and of a sudden great resort was made to his tomb , and many oblations were made and wax candles offered , and his tomb compassed about with great devotion , the people coming out of britain to it . the abbot and monks seeing the people make such resort thither , were willing to have it believed that miracles were wrought there . and presently some of the people feigned themselves deaf , others mad , and others lame to bring greater credit by their cures to the young saint ; that was but newly set up , and the good abbot gave encouragement to them . but guibert detests his nebulonity for it , as he calls it , a word though hardly to be met with elsewhere , yet very fitly expresses such horrible cheating and deluding the people . another instance , he gives immediately after done in his presence , viz. a preacher in a famous church had a mind to draw custom to it , and finding it necessary to tell them what excellent relicks they had , he produces a box and shews it to the people , and tells them they were to understand that within that box was kept a piece of the bread which christ himself did eat ; and if you do not believe this , behold a very learned person among you , pointing to guibert , will bear witness , if it were needful , to the truth of what i say . guibert saith , he blushed at the mans impudence , and had a good mind to have contradicted him , but he stood too much in awe of the persons about him who were his abettors in so advantagious a lie to them . but he saith , neither monks , nor clergy men did abstain from this base way of bringing gain to their churches , viz. by abominably cheating and abusing the people . i hardly think any of the frauds of the heathen priests in their temples and oracles at delphi , dodona and other places could exceed these . afterwards , he saith , that the acts of several of their saints were taken out of old womens tales and songs ; and some things were written of them which were not fit for plowmen to hear . and when they make their saints to be of great antiquity , yet they desire new lives to be written of them . which he confesses was a request often made to himself ; but , saith he , i am apt to be deceived in the things i see , what truth then could i write of the things which no man ever saw ? if i should yield to such a request both i that write or preach such things , and they who desire them ought to be branded with publick infamy . but supposing the saints to be true , yet they make lies about their relicks , so john baptist 's head is said to be in two several places , and what can be more ridiculous than to make the baptist have two heads ? one or other must cheat and deceive the people . his own predecessor st. godfridus had a mind to make a translation of the body of st. firmin as the people were to believe ; after all the search they could make , they found not one syllable of any intimation of such a body 〈◊〉 st. firmins lying there . but the bishop of the city caused an inscription to be made upon the leaden coffin . firminus martyr ambianorum episcopus . this , he said , he had from the mouth of the said bishop and another . were not these men fit to be made saints of , who could so cunningly turn the body of any , though it may be the most wicked person , into the relicks of a saint or a martyr , and so into an object of sacred veneration among the people ? but to make the story of this translation yet more pleasant , guibert tells us , that about the same time the monks of st. denys made a solemn translation of the same body of st. firmin ; and d'achery takes great pains to prove that the monks had the true body ; and yet the author of the life of st. godefrid , saith , that the people were invited by that saint to prepare themselves for the translation at amiens and to bring their gifts , and such a concourse of people came to it , that one would have thought all europe had been there . then the bishop with the priests went to the place where the sacred treasure lay , and exposed the holy relicks with great trembling to the veneration of the people . are not these rare doings for saints and holy bishops , thus horribly against their own consciences to abuse the people ? after these guibert relates how odo bishop of bayeux brother to william the first , bought the body of a countryman called exuperius of a sexton for . pound and made a solemn translation of it for st. exuperius : but , he saith , the instances of this kind are so numerous , that he had neither strength nor time to relate the things which were done in this manner by those who made gain their godliness . it was a common thing in those days to steal and sell relicks ( of which capgrave gives several examples ) and to fight for them , as we find in colganus ; and there was a sort of wandring monks called circelliones who made a trade of this ; greg. turonensis tells us of one desiderius in the city of tours , that pretended to work strange miracles , and that there were messengers passed between st. peter and st. paul and him ; to whom abundance of people flocked , carrying the blind and lame to him to be healed , and that he deceived the people by his art . another , ( who was afterwards found to have been a bishops servant ) went about cloathed in white , carrying a cross , at which hung two vessels in which he said holy oyl was contained ; this man p●etended to have come out of spain and to have brought some relicks of vincentius and felix ; he went to paris and drew the people after him ; but the ecclesiastical officers causing him to be searched , instead of his relicks found the teeth of moles , the bones of mice , the claws of bears , and the roots of herbs , with which they supposed he made enchantments for the people ; and of such persons gregory saith our saviours words are to be understood , that many false prophets shall arise doing signs and wonders . but of these impostors more afterwards . afterwards guibert vehemently disputes against those who pretended to the tooth of our saviour and the milk of the blessed virgin , and makes them guilty of lying and forgery : and derides the miracles that were wrought by the monks as vain , foolish , and uncertain , and concludes his discourse with saying , that to make gain with carrying about or shewing the pretended relicks of saints is a profane thing . thus we see from the authentick testimony of so considerable an author in his time how little credit was to be given to the lives of the saints , or their pretended relicks and miracles . yet still this way of abusing the people hath been upheld and practised , and their most solemn offices of religion corrupted with shameful lies ; for the story of the seven sleepers , and the . virgins , of st. christopher and others the most ridiculous fables , were preserved in their breviaries and lessons of them read upon their days ; as may be yet seen in the salisbury breviary , which was most in request in england . and , which deserves to be taken notice of , while they would by no means suffer the sacred bible to be in the hands of the people , they were well enough contented that sensless book of the golden legend should be published in english to be devoutly read by them . so much more did they think it their interest to feed the people with lies and fables , than with the holy word of god ; so much more advantageous was it for them to deceive than to save their souls . but , it may be , now they will pretend , that things a●● otherwise with them , that the golden legen● is out of request , that the breviaries are reformed , the martyrologies corrected , the a●●● of the saints set forth pure and free from f●bles . this last i have already shewed to be very far from being true , and we need no more to shew how little credit they dese●●● than what the collections of surius , ribadineira , bollandus , colganus and such like , will afford us . their breviaries and m●tyrologies i grant are in some things reformed , but there are many fables still remaining 〈◊〉 them , and some of the late correctors o● them instead of amending them have inser●●d tales that were never in before : as lau●●● hath at large proved in several discourses . one pleasant passage , often mentioned by him , it may not be amiss here to insert , to she● the skill of the roman correctors . in the roman martyrologie on the twenty fourth of january in the edition corrected by galesinius , and approved by gregory . with his bu●● before it ; these words were inserted , atque a●tiochiae sanctae synoridis martyris : and b●ronius in his learned anotations upon this place , saith , that st. chrysostom speaks of her homil. . de lazaro , and st. hierom of another of that name a woman famous for nobility and piety . how can they ever want martyrs in the roman church , that can turn words into martyrs ! for this m●rtyr synoris in those authors is no more than the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifies a pair joyned together , or a chariot drawn by a pair ; and so st. chrysostom there uses it of juventius and maximus calling them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and st. hi●rom of juliana and proba calling them sanctam christi synoridem : this was baronius his noble martyr synoris ; it was ill for her , that she happened to be first known in so unlucky a time , when some learned men ( of france as i take it ) sent baronius notice of this new martyr , who being ashamed of her , expunged her out of all editions of the martyrologie since a. d. . notwithstanding the popes bull in approbation of that edition : but if it had been her good fortune to have been heard off a little sooner , by this time we might have had an excellent legend of her , distributed into several lessons in the breviary , and the office of a martyr to be performed for her ; we might have heard many pretty stories of her childhood , and of her very early devotion to the blessed virgin for the sake of her sex ; how many strange miracles she had wrought ; and without doubt she had been at least the daughter of a prince , and it may be the youngest daughter of king costus . but so unhappy a thing it is to come into the worl● out of due time ! for she appeared but for ● little time , and then vanished quite out of sight . whereas if she had come abroad som● ages before , who knows what a world of good she might have done by this time , being solemnly invocated , and might have bee● thought as proper for all that go in coache● , especially with two horses , as st. antony 〈◊〉 for stollen goods , or st. apollonia for the toothache ; or st. viarius for the loym. this st. viarius was another very pretty saint , solemnly worshipped near ebora for 〈◊〉 bishop and a martyr , especially for the cu●● of the loyns , when , god knows , it was only the name of an antient roman curator of the high-wayes , which they had m●● with in some inscription , as andreas r●sendius tells us . who having the curiosity to search the antiquities of the church where this high-way saint was worshipped ; a grave priest told him all the legend of his martyrdom , resendius desired to see what monuments of it they had , he presently produces a roman inscription , wherein were these words viarum curandarum . now said the cunning old priest viarum that is plain his name was viarius , and curandarum is as much as if he should have said , cura curarum , and that belonging only to a bishop , it was evident , this martyr viarius was a bishop . resendius kept his countenance , and complained he saith to the bishop of this worshipping the roman curator for a saint ; but the people cursed him sufficiently for it , they having received much help from him . but , methinks they should have set out his life with all the circumstances of it , as well as have known for what disease he was proper to be invocated . and beatus rhenanus tells us , how such a thing might have been ingeniously done : for a certain monk published the life of st. beatus and called him suetonius , and described many passages of his life ; and said he had a companion called achates . beatus rhe●anus being more than ordinarily inquisitive after his name-sake , goes to the man , and asks him whence he had this information , supposing he had some good authority for it ; but upon enquiry he told him , that he called him suetonius , because he heard he came out of sweden , and he called his companion achates , because that was the name of aeneas his fellow traveller : and yet this admirable story rhenanus saith , was not only printed , but painted in churches too . and which adds something more of grace to it , dempster in his ecclesiastical history derives the antient and noble family of the setons in scotland from this st. suetonius . but what if after all these pretences to miracles in the roman church , some of their own members that must know them , and were no way inconsiderable either for authority , judgement or learning , should declare that they believe no such thing as the continuance of the power of miracles in the church ? can any thing more invalidate the testimony of those who assert these miracles than this ? there was hardly a greater man for learning and judgement in his time than tostatus bishop of avila in spain , and he purposely discusses this question about the continuance of the power of miracles in several places . in his commentaries upon leviticus , he shews that god made use of the power of miracles in the beginning of an institution , as of the aaronical priesthood by fire coming from heaven to consume the sacrifices ; but when the priesthood was already confirmed , there was no need of any more miracles in the consecration of the following priests : so , saith he , was it in the new law , for in the beginning of it many miracles were wrought , by and upon the new converts : but now there are no such things ●●n . the reason whereof , is , because at first be faith of the gospel was not confirmed in be minds of believers as it is now : and few ●elieved in christ ; therefore to bring men to ●●ith , this power of miracles was necessary , be matters of faith being uncapable of de●onstration ; but now the christian faith is ●fficiently confirmed , there is no need at all 〈◊〉 miracles . the same he asserts more large●y in his commentaries on st. matthew , and ●one place puts this question , why the bi●●ops and preachers of the church who suc●eed the apostles do not work miracles , as ●e apostles did , since miracles are for the ●onfirmation of the christian faith ? to ●hich he answers , that christ doth not be●ow the gift of miracles , but when it is ne●●ssary , or at least very useful ; but now the ●ift of miracles in these persons is neither ●rofitable nor useful ; because we have argu●ents enough to perswade us to believe with●ut that ; and therefore he determines that miracles now would not be for the profit of ●e church , but only for curiosity ; and saith ●at it is not meet that god should give this ●ower of miracles , nor doth he . nay , he ●●ls the case of heathens to be converted to ●●e faith ; and to that he answers , that it ●ight ●e either through their demerits , or of those who go to them , that god d●nies thi● power of miracles to convert them : b●● withal , saith that the conversion of infidels 〈◊〉 not so necessary now as in the apostles times and therefore god doth not in this ordinarily bestow this gift on men , although he m●● do it in some extraordinary cases . wh●● shall we say now to the testimony of thi● learned bishop ? had he never heard 〈◊〉 st. james of compostella and the miracl●● pretended to be wrought there ? and could 〈◊〉 believe them , and write these things ? ha● he never heard of st. vincentius ferreri●● who lived in some part of the same time wit● him , and if he had believed the miracles reported of him , he would neither have p●● the question , nor answered it so as he di● after him i shall produce the testimony 〈◊〉 fisher bishop of rochester in his answer t● luther , who to prove the necessity of interpreting scripture by the continued sense 〈◊〉 the church , and not by the bare letter , offe● to produce such words of christ in which b●sides the matter of fact and the comman● there is a promise annexed ; and yet , saith he , in our dayes no effect of this promise i● seen : and then brings the words of scriptu●● wherein it is said , that christ cured t●● blind and the lame , and cast out devils and he commanded his disciples to do 〈◊〉 same , and makes a promise to them that ●hould believe in christ. mark . that many ●●gns should follow them : and yet this promise , saith he , hath no effect now ; for no man ●ow casts out devils , nor heals diseases , and yet no one questions but there are many that believe . but what then , was the promise of christ of no effect ? no , saith he , christ intended it only for the first ages of the church ; but when the christian faith was dispersed over the world , there was no longer need of miracles . can any testimony be more plain or weighty in our case than this , it being from one who undoubtedly knew all the pretences to miracles that were then made ? erasmus expresly saith , that the gift of miracles ( which was necessary to the first ages of the church for the conversion of infidels , as speaking with strange tongues , miraculous cures , prophesying , and such like miracles ) is is now ceased . stella , not only saith , that the power of miracles is ceased ; but he saith that the receiving it would do more hurt than good ; for men would say , that the christian faith was not sufficiently confirmed before . of all cases we might most reasonably suppose that god should , if ever , renew this gift in the conversion of infidels ; and yet franciscus à victoria saith , that he heard of no miracles or signs that were wrought for the conversion of the indians . josephus acost● at large debates this case , why god doth n●● now give the power of miracles among those who preach to infidels as he did of old ? an● he offers at several reasons for it , of which this is the chief , that miracles were necessary in the beginning of christian religion , but not now . and if the church be defective in the power of miracles where it is the most necessary , what reasonable ground can there be to think that god should imploy his power not for the satisfaction of infidels , but of the credulous and superstitious ? as god never works miracles to convince obstinate atheists , so neither doth he to gratifie the curiosity of old women and pilgrims ; but if ever he do●● it , it is to lay a sufficient foundation for those to believe , who are otherwise destitute of the means of faith . but if such persons who are imployed upon the work of converting infidels do want the testimony of miracles , i know no reason to believe that he imploy●● it for other ends . and if these persons had believed that the power of miracles had been any where else in the church , they would have made that considerable objection to themselves , why god should give it where there was less need , and deny it where there was greatest ? but what then shall we say to the miracles pretended to be wrought by xaverius and others in the east-indies ? i say , that if they were sufficiently attested , we might be much more inclined to believe the truth of those miracles , than of the lady of loretto or st. james of compostella , or any of the rest which e. w. refers us to . for if it were at any time reasonable to expect a power of miracles , it would be for the conversion of infidels , and xaverius and his companions , going upon so generous a design , might be favoured in it by some extraordinary effects of divine power . but then in all reason the miracles would be such as were most accommodated to that design , as the speaking with the tongues in which they were to preach the christian religion : but by the letters of xaverius himself we find , that he was extreamly put to it for want of this gift of tongues , both on the coast of commorin and especially in japan : for in one of his letters he laments his condition very much , because the people being willing to learn , and he as willing to instruct them , for want of the language they conversed with each other like statues ; and when they asked him questions he could give them no answer ; but by degrees he said , he learnt to prattle like a child among them . can any one now imagine that god had bestowed the gift of miracles upon xaverius for propagating christianity , and yet should deny him that , without which all other miracles would be to no purpose , if he could not deliver the doctrine those miracles were to confirm , so as to be understood by the people ? but in truth , i do not find that xaverius himself in any of his epistles , did make any pretence to the power of miracles ; after his death indeed , the jesuits in those parts to increase the glory of their society , and their brethren in these parts as readily concurring to such a design , published some miracles , which they said were wrought by him . so melchior nunezius in his epistle to ignatius loyola , where he gives an account of the death of francis xaverius , saith , that many things were discovered since his death , that were not known while he was alive : and is not this a very probable circumstance that he had a power of miracles ? would the miracles of christ and his apostles have converted infidels if they had not been known while they were living ? and yet these miracles he reports are very few , and delivered on the single testimonies of no very considerable men : the rest , he faith , for brevity's sake he omits ; which is not very probable , considering how long he insists upon the story of the miraculous incorruption of his body after his decease . which bellarmin likewise magnifies , viz. that his body being cast into lime was preserved fifteen months entire and free from corruption . what will not these men make miracles of , when they have a mind to it ? when maffeius saith , that the relicks of st. thomas at meliapor , were mixed with lime and sand , which no doubt were designed to preserve them from corruption . and paulus zacchias a learned roman physician hath declared , that the incorruption of bodies by salt , nitre , or lime , is so far from being a miracle , that it hath nothing of wonder in it . and yet this must be cryed up as a strange miracle in xaverius his body , which would have passed for a common accident in any one else , it being so well known to be an ordinary effect of nature ; to preserve bodies a long time from corruption by the use of things which are of so drying a nature as those are . but as to all these miracles , whose relation we have from the jesuits in the east indies , we are to consider what credit their testimony deserves with us ; for if they are men who think it lawful to lye for a good cause ( as no doubt the honour of their society is such with them ) how can we with any tolerable discretion relye upon their words ? and what will those men stick at , who have had the impudence to insert fabulous miracles and stories into the very history of the gospel ? for which we are to understand that acabar emperour of the mogols , having given liberty to the jesuits to live in the city of agra , desired of hierome xavier the chief of them , ( a kinsman of the former francis xavier , and a man of such an apostolical spirit , faith alegambe ) an account of the life and miracles of christ. the subtle jesuit very well understanding their own doctrine about the obscurity and insufficiency of scripture , durst not put into his hands the four evangelists , but framed an excellent gospel of his own a. d. . which he declares at the end of it , to have taken out of the holy gospel , and the books of the prophets : and we may judge of his sincerity by these passages . in the beginning of it , he relates the story of the virgin mary , not as it is in the evangelists , but as he had taken it out of a a silly book de nativitate s. mariae attributed to st. hierom , but rejected not only by erasmus , but by baronius , canus , sixtus senensis , and others ; and the true author is supposed by some to be seleucus the manichee ; whether it were he or no , baronius saith , he was so ignorant as not to avoid manifest lyes : however this new evangelist thought him a fit author for him to make a new gospe● out of , the better to please the great mogol . he tells him out of that book that joachim and anna the parents of the blessed virgin , being very rich and childless ●ad made a vow to god , if they had a son to devote him to his service ; one time joachim went up to the temple to offer up his sacrifice there , and issachar the high priest rejected him ( a notorious lye , saith baronius , for no such man as issachar could be high priest then ) upon which he and his wife went ●way discontented ; at last god sent an angel to comfort joachim , and told him he should have a daughter , and should call her name mary , who should be filled with the holy ghost from her conception ; and charged them to perform their vow about her education in the temple ; he is so punctual as to set down the very day of her conception and birth , and relates the occasion of keeping the feast of her nativity among christians , viz. a revelation made to an eremite that she was born the eighth of september , when the eremite heard strange melody in the heavens upon that day ; upon which innocent the fourth appointed the feast to be kept . what gospel and prophets had this jesuit met with to take these excellent stories from ? but it must be from one of the prophets indeed , since innocent the fourth lived . years since the birth of christ. the blessed virgin , as xavier's gospel goes on , at three years old , upon friday the twenty first of november was carryed up to the temple , and there shut up in a holy place to be educated ( most of the mode●● commentators on this new gospel , tell us it was the holy of holies , which it seems was then turned into a nunnery , and for elev●● years together , they say , she never went o●● of that place ; if any one should boldly ask what conveniencies she could have there ? they readily answer , that she needed non● , being fed by angels all that time with spiritual food . so canisius , poza , and others in theophilus raynaudus ; and benedictus gon●nus adds , that zachary father to st. john baptist saw the angel that carried her meat to her ; for which he quotes pantaleon in metaphrastes ; ( no doubt an excellent author ) but xavier saith , that for the most part she had her food from heaven . i omit her vow of virginity , the manner of her espousals with joseph , and the reason of them , viz. to chea● the devil ; the blossoming of josephs rod ; the particular description of the virgin maries countenance with great blewish eyes , and golden locks , &c. all which he sets off with as many circumstances , as if they had made a considerable part in our gospels : but one of the greatest miracles of her beauty was , that a wicked man by looking upon her was converted . it was great pity then she went no oftner abroad , that she might have reformed the world by her countenance . afterwards he describes the manner of the angels salutation of the blessed virgin so exactly , that it plainly appears , he despised the rudeness of the evangelists in their manner of expressing it . the blessed virgin , saith he , was then sitting in her parlour musing upon that saying of esaias , a virgin shall conceive , &c. and she mightily desired to see that virgin , and wished she might be her hand-maid , while she was in these thoughts , an angel comes in like a beautiful young man with great splendour , and falls upon his knees ●nd fixed his eyes on the ground , and with great devotion said ave maria , &c. she was not surprized , saith he , at the sight of the angel , for she had often conversed with angels before , but at his humble posture , and the honour he gave to her . who can now doubt the lawfulness of praying to the blessed virgin , when the angel gabriel said the ave maria upon his bended knees to her ? after the angel had delivered his message , ●he made him wait , saith xavier , till midnight , before she gave any answer ; then , saith he , in the very point of midnight , she fell upon her knees , and with her head downward , and eyes full of tears , and her arms a cross , she said , ecce ancilla domini , &c. much in the same way he describes the manner of her delivery , only that her eyes were then lifted up towards heaven . i pass b● the fabulous miracles he relates concerning the birth of our saviour , of which there i● not one word in scripture , or any good historian : the story of the wise men with their names melchior , caspar and balthasar , of the●● kingdoms , and how their bodies came to be carried to cologn , which was much for the great mogols edification to know ; the m●racle of the letter vau blotted out by old simeon ; which he found in the word afterwards ; the check the angel gave him , and how thereby he came to owne the messias , the care anna had over the young virgins in the temple , and the manner of observing her feast with wax candles ; the miracles wrought in aegypt at christs being there ; the miracle of the pool of bethesda being caused by the wood of the cross , being hid there by king solomon , which floated in our saviou●● time , and when they took it out for the crucifying christ , then the pool lost its vertue : and abundance of other interpolations and corruptions of the story of the gospel ; but by these few , we may guess what sincerity we are to expect from such men in the relating the miracles of their own order , who cannot keep their hands off from forgery and imposture , in relating the story of the gospel . and after the same manner xavier hath published the history of st. peter . but lest any should imagine that these books were framed and set forth by some enemies to the jesuits , to the disgrace of their order , alegambe confesses they were both written in the persian language by hierome xavier , and faithfully translated into latin by lud. de dieu ; some very few faults he takes notice of , but they are so slight , that they confirm his authority in all the rest : let now any impattial man judge whether such persons deserve any faith in relating other miracles , that dare so horribly to adulterate and corrupt the very story of the bible ? but they little thought these abominable frauds , would ever have come to light in these parts , to make us truly understand what kind of gospel it is which they propagated in the indies ; and how unlikely it is that god should give the attestation of miracles to such lewd forgeries . and thus much may suffice for comparing the credibility of the testimony on which miracles are received in the roman church , with that upon which we believe the miracles of christ and his apostles . enough one would think , not only to stop the mouth of e. w. for the future , but even of impudence it self . § . . . i now come to shew the notorious frauds and impostures which have bee● discovered in the roman church in this point of miracles . it was an easie matter in an age o● credulity and ignorance to set up for a power of miracles ; for few men were inquisitive into the nature and circumstances of things , and those who understood , generally the best i● those times , were either contrivers or friends ▪ yet it so fell out , that some notorious impostures have been discovered , which have differed in nothing from those which have passed for true miracles among them , but only in the fortune of being discovered . glab●● rodulphus in his history , tells a story of his own knowledge of a certain person that went up and down pretending to do great wonders ; after the great feats he had done in france , he goes into the alps ; and there pretends to have found the relicks of st. justus the martyr , the countrey people flocked in to him , and they who came whole and sound were sorry they had no disease or lameness to be cured . but certain it is , saith the historian , strange cures were wrought there ; the bishops in whose diocesses these things were done , instead of making strict enquiries , demanded money to give licence to deceive the people . at last , one ma●sred a great man in those parts caused the body which wrought these miracles to be taken away and placed in a monastery of his own erecting , and this relick-finder grew into great request with him , promising to discover more precious relicks than these , and he told him the names of the martyrs , and manners of suffering very exactly . some persons , among whom the historian himself was one , asked him how he knew these things ; he told them , that an angel appeared to him in the night , and told him all the things he desired to know ; and lifted him out of his bed , and after many discourses , they parted very lovingly . although some of them suspected the imposture , yet the bishops who consecrated the church with great pomp , and applause of the people , who were innumerable , solemnised the translation of these relicks . and although afterwards the wiser sort found out the cheat , and that the body was taken at a venture in the night out of a grave , yet the work of miracles went on as well as if the martyr had been there , and the people still continued in the belief of it . this the historian saith , he purposely inserted to discover the imposture of those pretended miracles . gulielmus neubrigens●s gives an account of a seditious person in london in the time of richard the first called william longbeard , who stiled himself the saviour of the poor , and had gotten so great an interest among the people , that he had two and fifty thousand men at his command , at last he was seized on and executed ; b●● after his death the people cryed him up for ● martyr , and a priest got one of his chains , and gave out that he cured one sick of ● fever by it ; the people being encourage● by this , took away the very gallows where he hung in the night , and all the earth about it where any of his blood was supposed to be spilt , and they digged so far as to make ● pitt with carrying away the earth for the cure of diseases . by these instances we see what a disposition the people were in , to be deluded under a pretence of relicks and miracles . but it may be said , that such impostors may be in any religion , and this reflects no mo●● dishonour on the roman church , than simon magus did upon the apostles : i proceed therefore to shew , that persons who have been countenanced and encouraged in that church have been found guilty of imposture . at the latter end of the twelfth century appeared one fulco , a man very famous for the great miracles wrought by him , and his extraordinary way of preaching . he was , saith jacobus de vitriaco , a plain countrey priest , very simple and illiterate , who had been a ●oose and dissolute man , but being now re●ormed , to the university of paris he goes ●o get some authorities and moral docu●ents in his note-books , which saith he , he ●●●nished himself with , as so many smooth ●●ones to destroy goliah . being thus far armed ●e pretends a commission from heaven to go ●broad to preach in all places , and gave out ●hat the blessed virgin appeared to him , and ●ad fitted him for that work , and bad him go ●●each repentance in all places , and that she ●ad bestowed the gift of healing upon him , ●s otto de sancto blasio tells us . upon this , ●e preaches at paris to the great admiration ●f his hearers , who looked on him as a per●on inspired , saith jacob. de vitriaco , and as ●nother st. paul ; which preaching was so ●●fectual with many of the people , as to make ●hem take off their garments and shoo 's , and ●arrying whips in their hands , to cast them●elves at his feet to receive penance . after this way he went over all france , and a great ●art of the empire , and came over into eng●●nd , as our historians tell us , and preached before richard the first , by the same token he ●alled him hypocrite , to the great regret of some of our historians ; but it seems he staid ●ot long here , but away he went for france ●gain● hoveden tells us that the clergy of lisieux in normandy cast him into prison but he made a shift to get from thence quickly , and went to caen where he was again imprisoned by the governour of the castle ; an● escaping thence , he cast off the the dust o● his feet against them : but although the kin● of england had so mean an opinion of him the people in france thought they could no● sufficiently adore him . for jac. de vitria●● saith , that they thought themselves happ● who could get any piece of his garments , 〈◊〉 so much that he was fain almost every day t● put on a new habit : which one day the people tore so unreasonably , that he desired the● that they would not tear his garments whic● were not blessed , but he would bless the h●bit of one that stood by him , which he 〈◊〉 no sooner done , but the people did tear it i● a thousand pieces , and preserved them f● relicks : they pressed so much upon hi● saith the same grave author , that he w● forced to beat them off with a staff in h● hand ; and although he wounded some wi●● his blows , yet they were so far from bei●● displeased at it , that they kissed the bloo● which came from them , as being sanctifi●● by his strokes : ( for his hair shirt and p● nance made him very cholerick ) . never an● man had greater reputation for miracles tha● this ; for where ever he came , it was give out that he cured all diseases ; as all the hi●orians that mention him agree ; but otto ●ives the most particular account of them , ●hich he said he had from one bertoldus de ●sinberc , who saw him ; when any dumb ●ere brought unto him he opened their ●ouths , and breathed into them , and com●anded them to speak ; which if they did not presently , he gave them a good blow on ●he cheeks , and then they spake . he made a very infirm boy leap off his horse and run before him with holding up his staff , as one ready to strike him . but never was poor man so served as the rich usurer was by him , ( for we must know his great zeal was against usury ) he seeing in the spirit , saith bertoldus , that this man was praedestinated to life , took an occasion to dine with him ; and assoon as he was gone into his house , he asked what he had to dinner ; the man told him he need not trouble himself about that , he would provide as well for him as the city would afford ; he was not satisfied with this , but would needs go into the kitchin and have all set before him , which was no sooner done , but he ( very spightfully , so near dinner time ) turns all into frogs and serpents ; upon which the poor usurer fell upon his knees and begged pardon for all his faults . but fulco told him , both he and all his provisions were unclean ; and there was no way for him to escape , but to give away all that he had ; which the usurer in a little time after told him he had done ; but it seems he had forgotten a quantity of wheat which was yet left . fulco hearing of it , takes the usurer with him , and goes to the place where it lay , and found it full of toads and serpents ; then he tells him , if he would be perfect , and certain of gods mercy , he should go naked into that granary , then he promised him eternal life ; which command he presently obeyed , and then fulco shut up and sealed down the cover of it , and commanded all not to come near it till next morning ; then great multitudes flocked to see what was become of the man , and they found nothing but a mans bones whiter than snow ; which he took out , and declared them to be holy relicks , and caused them to be laid up accordingly . by this one miracle attested by one , who saith , he saw his miracles , we may judge of the man and his miracles . however , this man was thought a fit instrument to be imployed by the pope to preach up a croisado ( for their holinesses have thought fit to make use of such false pretenders to inspiration and miracles , as the fittest men to manage their designs , as peter the eremit by urban the second , and this man by innocent the third ) for otto saith expresly that he preached by the popes authority : and the chronicon andrense lately published by d'achery , affirms the same : raynaldus mentions the letters which were sent him from innocent the third ; and jacobus de vitriaco saith , that at last , he carryed the cross upon his shoulders , and perswaded princes and others to an expedition to the holy land ; and by this means he heaped up abundance of wealth togeth● ; and from that time , saith the same author , his authority and reputation began to decline , and not long after he dyed of a fever at neulli in his own parish church , where he began his work . otto hath no mind at all to speak of his end , but only saith , that men cannot tell what became of him , after the stories of his miracles , nor what end he made ; at which , he saith , the wiser men were exceedingly scandalized ; but he thinks he might be honestly defended . but rigordus who lived in the same time with him , intimates his mind sufficiently about him , when after mentioning his miracles and preaching , he saith , but if a man desires to know with what intention a man preaches , he must look to his end , because the end doth most clearly discover the intention of the heart . by which it is easie to understand what kind of person he thought this fulco to be . one of the greatest companions of this fulco , was one petrus de rusciaco or de rusciaco , who had likewise gained a great reputation for preaching poverty till he made himself excessively rich , and by that means , saith jacobus de vitriaco , he not only made his own doctrine contemptible , but brought a great scandal upon all the disciples of fulco . and robertus antissiodorensis an author of that time , acknowledges that the devotion of the people occasioned by these preachers speedily declined , and many that seemed to be reformed of their vices , returned to the practice of them . but jacobus de vitriaco adds afterwards , that many false prophets and deceivers went abroad under the same pretence of extraordinary preaching ; and which is more , that they were sent by the bishops of several churches to get money from the people for the repair of their churches ; and antissiodorensis expresly saith , that fulco went abroad to preach in his itinerant manner by the inspiration of god , and the licence of his bishop . within less than forty years after this fulco , appeared another famous imposter pretending to work great miracles called johannes d● vincentia , or vicen●a in italy , of the dominican order , say the most historians , although vignier makes him a cordelier . this man was imployed by pope gregory the th in the time of his troubles with frederick the second to the city of bononia , and prevailed so much upon them , saith sigonius , by the reputation of his learning and sanctity , that in a little time he had gotten the whole power of the city in his hands . but that which chiefly gained him so great authority , was the opinion of his great miracles ; for guido bonatus , who lived in that time , and saith he saw him , affirms that he had made the people believe he had revelations from god , and that by his command the dead were raised : spondanus out of thomas cantipratensis mentions seven , vignier eighteen that had been raised by him from the dead , and adds , that his companions gave out , that he cured all diseases , cast out devils , and did many other miracles : but after a while , he saith , his imposture was discovered , but not before he had gotten twenty thousand marks of silver to his convent : and guido bonatus saith of himself , that he was thought an heretick for suspecting his imposture from the beginning . matthew paris saith of him , that he lost all his esteem through his pride and bad company . spondanus knows not what to say to this judgement of matthew paris , finding him on one side so highly commended by pope gregory the ninth in his letters to him , and on the other such evident testimonies , that in a little time he lost all the authority he had in bononia . but it is plain by the letters of pope gregory extant in raynaldus , that he looked on him as one inspired , and that had a gift of miracles ; for he solemnly gives thanks to jesus christ for the great miracles wrought by him , which he parallels with those wrought by moses in the presence of pharaoh for the redemption of the people of israel ; and it is as evident , that some of the learnedst men in the roman church look on him as a meer impostor . for the famous jesuit who writ the diatribae against the dominicans under the name of petrus de valle clausâ , reckons up this man among the notorious cheats of that order : and he who writ in vindication of the order hath very little to say for him , but only that the pope had a better opinion of him : which it seems the jesuit who knew the popes correspondence with him well enough , did not think sufficient to excuse him from imposture . and yet after all this , bzovius for the honour of his order , attributes to him wonderful sanctity and miracles ; and makes him to have cured abundance of diseases with the sign of the cross , to have raised up ten men from the dead : adding , that once when he was praying , there appeared a cross in his forehead , another time over his head ; and that a bright star was seen over him , and an angel whispering in his ear . judge now reader , what credit these reporters of miracles in the roman church do deserve from ●s : when such persons who are by their own order cryed up for the workers of miracles , are by others of their own church condemned for meer impostors . but one of the most notorious impostures which ever came to light , was that of the dominicans at bern ; the substance of which , i shall give from the authentick relation it self as it was published a. d. . very soon after the thing was done . it seems the controversie about the immaculate conception of the blessed virgin had caused great heats in germany , and all sorts did favour the desenders of it ; which extreamly discontented the dominicans , who found that the franciscans gained ground of them chiefly upon the authority of some revelations and miracles . the dominicans therefore considered how they might vye with their adversaries in these things , and resolved to have revelations from the blessed virgin against the immaculate conception , and to have as good marks of christs wounds in their order as st. francis had ; but such a design required a good theatre to act it on , where it might not be discovered , and yet be sufficiently known ; at first they thought of francfort , then of norimberg , but at last they pitched upon bern , as most convenient , by reason of the simplicity and ignorance of the people . four persons were imployed as the chief actors in it , although with the consent and knowledge of the provincial ; the first was johannes vetter the prior of the convent , the second stephanus bolshort their preacher , the third franciscus ulschi the sub-prior , the fourth henricus steinscer the procurator of the convent . not long after , an occasion happened for them to begin their design , a plain simple taylor called johannes jets●● happened to desire to be admitted a l●●brother , at first they scorned him , but finding he had money , they consented to his admission ; after they had tryed him they found him a fit person to practise upon . accordingly the sub-prior in the night threw stones into his room , and made dreadful noises to affright him with the apprehension of spirits disturbing him ; the next day they gave him wax lights and holy water and some sacred relicks to arm him , so that he might have the courage to talk with the spirit , and they informed him what he was to say to it . the next night the spirit , viz. the sub-prior comes again , and puts the poor taylor into a miserable fright , so that he durst not answer as he was instructed ; then the spirit comes and seizes upon his throat , as though he were going to choak him , at which he cryed out and desired to know how he might help him ; for he was told it was the soul of one in purgatory that came for relief ; then the spirit told him he must discipline himself for eight dayes till the blood came , and cause eight masses to be said for him : and to say himself fifty pater nosters , and as many ave maria's for him , and at every one to kiss the ground in remembrance of judas his kiss to christ , and then he should be delivered : all this he promised to discover to his superiors ; the spirit bid him not be affrighted , for he was to come again six dayes after , and to bring others with him : immediately these things were publickly performed , and mighty flocking of the people there was upon the noise of it , and the dominicans were cryed up to the great disgrace of the franciscans . against the next time , ( when stephen whom they appointed his confessor , had found him , not mistrusting in the least any trick in it ) they told him they would certainly try whether he was a good or evil spirit , by two pieces of the blessed sacrament which they would have ready against the time the spirit was to appear again . the spirit comes at the time appointed with two more : but the honest taylor having now gotten heart by the presence of the host , adjures the spirit to answer him , and to tell him his business ▪ then the spirit revealed to him , that the other two were his tormentors which immediately vanished away ; that he had been i● purgatory one hundred and sixty years , th● the dominican order was the best in the world , that some were in purgatory for contradicting st. thomas his opinion about the maculate conception ; that the city of be● should be destroyed , unless the francisca● were expelled out of it , that scotus was in purgatory for asserting the immaculate conception , with many other particulars concerning himself which they had learnt from him in confession . after this the spirit appeared in the form of st. barbara , and told him the other spirit would now return no more ; but that the blessed virgin would appear suddenly to him ; which accordingly happened , and then revealed to him that the pope would shortly determine against the immaculate conception , and in favour to him told him , that she gave him some of the swadling clouts jesus was wrapt in , and a vial full of her sons blood ( such another i suppose as that at st. maximins in france ) with several other particulars too large to be mentioned . the most remarkable thing after this was , the next appearance of the blessed virgin , who expressed a great kindness to him , and ● favour she would confer upon him in token of her maculate conception : then she desired ●im to put out his hand , at first he was unwil●ing , but durst not refuse , then the spirit drove a great nail into his hand , and made ● wound in it , and bad him keep it open with ●qua fortis and other corrosives , the next ●ight she brings him clouts to lay to it , such ●s st. francis had , but fearing he should not hold out with the other four wounds , a wa●er was given him which deprived him of all sense , and then were the rest made , which when he came to himself he wondred at , and was ready to believe indeed that they came ●rom heaven ; and wondred at himself how like st. francis he was : then they taught him to imitate christs sufferings in his carriages , by stretching out his arms and hanging down his head in publick : which drew a strange concourse of people to see him , and when they gave him the water , then the prior told them , that the expired with devotion : after this , they perswaded him to great mortification and abstinence ; that it might be thought he had deserved these revelations and wounds by his great merits . at last the poor man discovered his confessors voice in the habit of the blessed virgin , and cryed out he was cheated ; then another came with the host all bloody in his hands , as they had coloured it , and assured him he was the blessed virgin whom he doubted of before : but his suspicions still increased by their endeavours to take them away . then he resolves to leave the convent , which they perceiving , at last drew him to consent to the carrying on the design : which when he had done , they began to shew new tricks to the people , makeing the image of the blessed virgin to weep , by the help of one lazarus a painter , and jetzer to embrace it so fast in a posture of devotion , that he could not be stirred from it , till the bloody eucharist was brought . but jetzer was at length tired out , with the severities they used towards him , and afraid of being poysoned to prevent the discovery , and so escaped out of the convent , and then declared all this imposture to the magistrates , upon which they were all seized upon , and after many delayes used in the prosecution of them at the court of rome , they were at last burned , and their ashes cast into the river , lest they should be preserved for relicks ; as the author of the relation confesses they were accounted martyrs by some and thought to be very unjustly condemned and executed . and no doubt , the violent prosecution of them was due to their inveterate enemies the franciscans ; otherwise , they might have escaped as other impostors had done before them . but the pretending to the wounds of st. francis was an unpardonable fault with them ; and to be expiated with nothing less than death . this story , is not only thus related in this book published on purpose ( which i have by me ) but the truth of it is confessed by trithemius , by peter martyr anglericus , by baselius , by surius , by del rio , by sponda● , and by petrus à valle-claus● , all of them far enough from being suspected of any enmity to the roman church . bzovius thought it the best way to take no notice at all of it , and so did genebrard , gaultier , considering what a dishonour it reflects on them , by the occasion it gives to suspect other frauds and impostures which have been managed by better hands . but the late dominican apologist joh. casalas would needs have it all to be a meer contrivance of reuchlin out of his hatred to the monks ; which is so ridiculous and absurd an evasion , that it appears by it he had never seen the authentick relation of it . but he tells us , that antonius senens●s in his bibliotheca ordinis praedicatorum justifies the men that suffered , saying that they suffered innocently , being oppressed by their enemies . so impossible is it for the greatest frauds and impostures as to revelations and miracles , to want friends in the roman church . but we must not think this sort of impostures was confined only to the dominican order , for the franciscans at orleans were found out in the counterseiting a mute spirit , representing the soul of a woman deceased that made signs she was damned for being a lutheran , which was found to be nothing else but a novice of their order appointed by them to act that part : but after full discovery of the matter of fact they were preserved from punishment for the reputation of their order , in a time when the design was to persecute the lutherans . this story i confess is related by sleidan , but i do not find it contradicted by any of their own authors . of the same seraphical order , and not long after that time , appeared in spain a notorious impostor called magdalena de la cruz , and confessed to be such by ribadineira , del-rio , benzo and others : she was abbess of the franciscan nuns in corduba , and these miracles are reported of her , that being invocated in a storm at sea , she appeared to the mariners , and the storm ceased , that she was frequently lifted up in trances into the air , that once being so lifted up , she received the host , which came out of the hands of the priest through the air and en●red into her mouth , that when she was in the garden , and the sacrament by chance passed by in the street , the wall of the garden opened that she might worship the host , that for many dayes she lived only upon the blessed sacrament . her reputation by means of these miracles was so great , that the great ladies of spain being at the point of child-●irth sent to her their child-bed-linnen to be blessed by her . nay , the empress her self , ●ent hers from valladolid to corduba ; and the emperour undertook no great expedition without consulting her ; and desiring her prayers ; and yet after all these things the dominican inquisitors being jealous of the growing reputation , by her means , of the ●ranciscan order , found a pretence to seize upon her , and upon examination condemned her for a notorious impostor . such another was maria de la visitacion , prioress de la annuntiada in lisbon ( of whom i have spoken elsewhere on another occasion ) but she was of the dominican order , ( for these two orders of mendicants still did strive to out-match each other in these pretended saints and miracles , and by their mutual jealousies and animosities these impostures came to be discovered , without which they had passed among the people as current as those of the founders of the two orders ) . about her a book was published in french by stephen de lustgnan a dominican frier , printed at paris by john bessan● a. d. . with this title , the great miracles and most holy wounds which this present year . have happened to the right reverend mother , now prioress of the mon●stery de la annuntiada in lisbon , of the order of preaching friers , approved by the reverend father frier lewis of granada , and other persons worthy of credit ; in his dedication to the queen of france he saith , that he had published the greatest miracles that ever almighty god in our times hath wrought in the person of a most noble , most vertuous , and most religious virgin , most devoted to the holy sacrament , and st. thomas of aquine : by whose merits and intercessions she hath deserved to have visibly for her husband jesus christ crucified , his five most holy wounds , by means whereof the divine majesty doth continually divers miracles . in the letter of the provincial f. antonio de l● cerda sent to rome to be shewed to the pope , and afterwards printed by order , are these passages concerning her . mother mary de la visitacion at eleven years of age entred into the monastery de la annuntiada , and at sixteen years made prosession . in which time our lord jesus christ appeared to this religious , to recompence her merits , and took her to his spouse , saying to her the words of the prophet jeremy , i have loved thee with an ev●rlasting love , &c. and from that time forward , he still appeared to her ; granting her many particular favours , speaking and conversing familiarly with her , as one friend doth with another , as god talked and discoursed with moses ; and oft times he appeared to her accompanied with saints of both sexes , as with mary magdalene , st. domin●ck , st. thomas of aquine , st. katharine of siena , and sometimes alone , and was very familiar with her , helping her to say the canonical hours , and at the end of every psalm she would say , gloria patri , & tibi , & spiritui sancto : he tells strange stories , of her raptures and extasies , of her miraculous cures of diseases ; and how the host came of its own accord to her mouth out of the place where it was kept : of her miraculous wounds in imitation of st. francis , made by christ himself with beams of fire issuing from him in her side , hands and feet , which opened on frydayes ; and how she was often seen , with a glory about her , lifted up into the air. to these lewis of granada adds , that for seven years every thursday , at the ave mary hour she felt in he● head all the pains of the crown of thorns , and she had some marks of those thorns in 〈◊〉 head , and the pains endured till friday ●he same hour . many more particular miracles the provincial relates of her , as the curing of a cancer , by applying one of the clouts to it which was taken from the wound in her side ; and that instruments were made of the truth of this by a publick notary : and of other diseases , by pieces of the c●oss given by her ; from which lusignan among other conclusions draws this , that miracles have ever continued in the catholick , apostolick and roman church . such kind of miracles i grant have , but i think not much to the credit of it . sixtus . was over-joyed at the news of these glorious miracles , as he expressed in his letter to that purpose to cardinal alb●rtus of austria , dated at rome , sep●emb . . . subscribed antonio prucha badulini . and so great was her reputation in spain , that she was chosen to bless the standard royal in the spanish armada . which was performed with a mighty solemnity . after all which , in the beginning of . she was condemned for an impostor , and a book published shewing the man●er how she deceived the people in this pretence of miracles . ribadineira mentions such another impostor , viz. a nunn at bononia , which imitated the pains of our saviour on the cross , and saith , that she had the wounds in her hands and side , and the pains of the crown of thorns on her head , which dropt blood from them ; but she had at last a very bad end ; the observation of which impostures made , saith he , ignatius loyola in his old age vehemently to suspect , those frequent extasies , visions and revelations , which himself had pretended to as much as any in his younger dayes . and afterwards he excuseth ignatius loyola for not having his sanctity so attested with miracles as some expected ; and saith , that miracles are not necessary in our times . this he writ a. d. . but although he knew ignatius as well then as ever he did afterwards , yet when the design of canonizing ignatius began to be managed by the society , then rib●dineira changed his story , ●d in the lesser account of his life published afterwards , pretends to abundance of miracles that were wrought by him . by which we may easily guess of what credit those miracles are , which so intimate a friend of ignatius knew nothing of , till it was thought to be much for the honour of their society , that he should be canonized . and it is observable , that the miracles mentioned by ribadineira were such , only which are most lyable to fraud and imposture , viz. casting out of devils in their way , of which there are so many notorious instances in the roman church . hasenmullerus who had been himself a jesuit , relates that his brethren at rome told him , that a woman possessed with a devil followed ignatius , and cryed , thou only art able to deliver me , then ignatius turning about repeated this verse of virgil , speluncam dido , dux & trojanus eandem . at which ( for there is an unknown quality in these words for casting out devils ) the devil threw the woman down , and going out of her cryed , o thou son of loyola , like a lyon thou sendest me to hell , but i beseech thee send me any where else ; then ignatius taking pity on the poor devil , bid him go whither he would , so he possessed no body after : at which the woman was delivered : and as the jesuit turrian said , she was a devout servant of ignatius all her dayes . another time , a servant of cardinal farnese was possessed with a sullen devil , that was resolved not to be cast out , but only by ignatius ; he was then called by the people , and he told them , he knew that devil well enough , he thinks to laugh at me and you too , but he shall be deceived . therefore he gives a brother of his order one of the beads of his rosary , which was consecrated by pius the fifth , and bid him come behind the possessed person ( was that fair dealing to come behind the devil ? ) and to touch him , and say softly , i adjure thee in the name of the virgin mary , and by command of my father loyola , and by the virtue of this blessed bead to be gone . immediately the devil cryed out , that loyola tormented him ; but no persons saw him there abouts : the devil then explained himself saying , that his bead was of more force than all their exorcisms ; and so left him . the same author tells us of his own knowledge , that at landsperg in germany , there was a carter that went to his parish priest and told him , that the devil did often drive him to his doors , but would not go in himself , nor let him go in ; not long after , this sellow was taken and condemned for thievery , but he pretended he was possessed with a devil ; the jesuits hearing of it , came to him , and made use of all their exorcisms , but to no purpose . at last the rector of the colledge remembring ignatius his cunning way of coming behind the devil , follows his method , and with an agnus dei commands the devil in the name of the virgin mary to be gone , but the obstinate devil told him plainly he would not be gone , unless the man were saved from hanging . forthwith , the jesuits got his pardon , and the devil was presently gone , and the man went away and laughed in his slieve , and told others afterwards , he counterfeited being possessed , only to escape hanging . but however the jesuits boasted of this as a great miracle , and commended the use of agnus dei's very highly for this , and sold abundance of them ( as mountebanks do their medicines ) to the people , that were willing to be cheated . and one of the fathers of the society called lutz made a sermon to the people on the occasion of this miracle , in commendation of agnus dei's . many other such stories he relates of the jesuits miracles . but we are not to imagine , that these subtle jesuits only cast out devils thus in other countreys , for we have sufficient evidence of this faculty of theirs here at home : for which we are to understand , that in the years . and . the jesuits in england finding it necessary to animate their party towards a design then in hand , thought nothing would tend so much to it , as pretending to some great miracles . and nothing being more easie to be managed for the deceiving the people , than the casting out of devils , where they never were , this they resolve upon . to this end they gave out , that the places where they intended to act this scene were mightily haunted with spirits , then they made choice of fit persons to shew their tricks upon , which were hypochondriacal and distempered men , and some hysterical and fearful women , who had all of them their dependance on such as were fast friends to the design : twelve exorcists were imployed to act their parts in this scene under weston or edmonds the jesuit , who was the chief contriver and manager of it . it happened that three of the maid servants had been protestants ; these they told that the protestants are possessed with devils , and that no good could be done to them till their baptism was set right . then to work they go with them , as to their baptism , with their latin charms , their salt , spittle , oyl , &c. and gave them new names . this being done , they took all occasions to tell them strange stories of exorcisins in forrain countreys , the manner of the fits of possessed persons , and the words they spake , and the sights they saw , how they roared at the approach of any sacred relicks , how they could not abide the sight of the sacrament , or the priests , how they would greatly commend hereticks , and complain that they were burnt if the priests did but touch them . by this they very well understood their parts , and they were soon put upon shewing their skill in acting them ; for at the first mass that ever one of the maids saw , she was put into the holy chair , and they bound her with towels , then one of the priests read in his book of exorcising , but finding no alteration in her , but only from her fear , they made her drink about a pint of sack & sallet oyl being hallowed and mingled with rue and some kind of spices , which they called the holy potion . the maid loathed the taste of it , which they told her came from the devil , who hated nothing more than that holy drink , but she was forced by degrees to drink it up . then she grew very sick and giddy , and fell into a cold sweat , which made her begin to believe her self pofsessed . after this they burned brimstone with other things , and made her hold down her face over the smoke of it : which they did , till they made her look black in the face . by this horrible usage , the wench fell first into a rage , and spake she knew not what , then it intoxicated and benummed her senses , and at last she fell into a swound : and when she came to her self , told them they had almost killed her ; and some of them after this usage ( which was common to all whom they would have believed to be possessed ) were resolved rather to make away themselves , than endure i● again . they had invented pretty names for the devils which possessed them , frateretto , fliberdigibbet , hoberdidance , tocobatto , kellico , porterichio , motubizanto , maho , modu , &c. when ever they cryed out with pain and ill usage , they still said , it was the devil in them , so that at last they were forced to comply with them , and to say just as they would have them for their own ease . then the work went on well , and the devil commended the queen and the protestants , but declared a great hatred of holy water and relicks , especially of campians thumb and brians bones , when they applyed them to them . all the dreams they had in the night passed for visions ; and as often as the exorcists pleased , what ever they said or did was not by themselves , but by the devils in them . but at last , when some of their own party disliked their doings , and they were in great fears of having their horrible imposture discovered , they soon dispossessed all the devils out of them . then their care was to prevent discovery by these persons , whom they disposed of in several places , and fed with money and promises , and kept from their friends , and sometimes threatning them , that if they confessed any thing , the devil would possess them worse than before : and withal told them , that without an oath they might say any thing to excuse themselves ; but harrington a priest , that had taken to himself one of the wenches afterwards , under pretence of marrying her ; told friswood williams which was her right name , that if she were examined upon oath , the church did dispence with her , so as she might answer what she thought good notwithstanding ; because an oath did not bind her to confess any thing that might tend to the dishonour of their priesthood , or of the catholick church . before this imposture was discovered , it did the priests very great service , for anthony tyrrell one of the priests in his examination confessed , that in the compass of half a year , they had gained five hundred persons to their church ; and some said three or four thousand . and the priests had written several books concerning the miracles wrought by them , full of most notorious forgeries , as appeared by the particular examination of the persons pretended to be dispossessed by them . tyrell said that weston the provincial of the jesuits had written a quire of paper of the visions of mainey one of the persons out of whom he said he had cast out devils ; and another book to prove the continuance of this power in their church , and to shew the vertue of holy relicks especially of their late tyburn saints , campian , sher●in , brian and coltam . this business making so much noise put the persons in authority upon enquiring more strictly into it ; and having at last seized upon some of the persons concerned in it , in their several examinations upon oath they confessed the whole cheat , as i have delivered it from them . their examinations were entred upon record in the court of high-commission , and afterwards published a. d. . with a particular declaration of the whole imposture . in which any person may satisfie himself of the truth of what i have reported , and abundance of circumstances which i have omitted . tyrell the priest upon his oath june . . declared in his consession written with his own hand , that having perused the examinations of sara williams and friswood her sister , of anne smith and of richard mainey , he was fully perswaded that they have deposed the truth in such points whereof they were examined belonging to their pretended possession or dispossession . the effect whereof , saith he , is , that they were drawn by our cunning carriage of matters , to seem , as though they had been possessed , when as in truth they were not , neither were any of the priests ignorant in my conscience of their dissimulatino , nor the parties themselves , ( as now it appeareth ) of our dissembled proceeding with them . and afterwards adds a very material thing , viz. for although both my self , ( and so i think of the rest ) did know that all was but counterfeit , yet for as much as we perceived that thereby great credit did grow to the catholick cause , and great discredit to the protestants , we held it lawful to do as we did . for the general conceit , saith he , among all the priests of that order is , that they may deny any thing , which being confessed doth turn to the dishonour of the catholick church of rome : and concludes his confession with saying , that they do not account it evil , ( as i verily think ) to c●lumniate the protestants by any device whatsoever , that may carry any probability with it , nor make any conscience at all to tell and publish any untruths , which they think , being believed , may advance and promote such points and matters as they take upon them to defend for the honour of the church of rome and dignity of their priesthood . judge now , reader , whether such persons do not deserve the highest credit in all their stories of miracles , who think it lawful both to cheat and lie for the sake of their church . not twenty years after the discovery of this imposture ●e find them at the same work again , when they writ the faithful narration of the proceedings of the catholick gentlemen with the boy of bilson ; with this sentence at the beginning and end of it . non nobis domine , non nobis ; sed nomini tuo da gloriam , whereas the history of this imposture is so particularly laid open by the confession of the boy himself , that it would make any others ( but such as have the impudence to compare their frauds and impostures with the miracles of christ and his apostles ) be ashamed ever to mention or own it . such another imposture thuanus at large relates concerning martha brossier , a. d. . which gave great disturbance in france , happening so soon after the edict of ●ants . one james brossier being weary of his poor imployment at home , wanders from place to place with his three daughters , and this martha pretended to be possessed with an evil spirit , and although the cheat was discovered in other places , yet at paris they hoped to meet with some who would be ready to make use of such a counterfeit possession for their own ends ; accordingly there the capuchins presently lay hold upon her , and perswade the people she was really possessed ; the arch-bishop of paris disliking the capuchins proceedings appointed some of the ablest physicians in paris to watch and examine her , who presently suspected the imposture , but desired further time and advice . in the mean while fr. seraphin very solemnly falls to his exorcisms , and she acted her part so artificially with writhing her body , rolling her eyes , and trembling of all her joynts as caused great astonishment in the spectators ; but at these words homo factus est , she moved her whole body in so strange a manner from the altar to the doors of the chappel , that fr. seraphin cried out ; if there be any infidel yet among you let him come and try his strength with this spirit . at which marescot the physitian said he would do it ; then the cunning gypsie cried that the spirit had left her ; wherein she was seconded by the exorcist . while the physitians were by , she lay very still , but she no sooner thought them gone , but she was at her old tricks . then these physitians were shut out and others brought in , who would be more favourable to the design ; and by these a certificate was drawn up attested by themselves that she was really possessed ; and an abbot affirmed that when she was held by six men she got above their heads four foot into the air and there stood . when this account of her was published , marescot confuted it answering all their arguments and giving an account of all the strange symptoms which were s●en in her . but so much were the people moved by this , that there was great danger of a tumult , the king therefore gave order to the parliament to prevent riotous meetings and to commit the pretended possessed person to the care of physitians , who returned this answer that they could find nothing praeternatural in her ; then great clamours were made by the people and ●editious preachers that the priviledges of the church were infringed , and that all this was done in favour of the hugonots ; to take away from the catholick church the glory of her miracles : after severe animadversion on these factious preachers and friers ; martha was sent home with her father and sisters , and confined thither . but the bishop of clermont and his brother carried her away to avignon , and refused to obey the summons sent them by the parliament ; and the king sent to cardinal ossat his ambassador at rome to acquaint the pope with the whole matter , before they came thither : it happened that sirmondus was then with cardinal ossat , him he imploys to the general of the order of jesuits ( who were suspected to be friends to the brothers who had been bred up in their society ) that if they medled in this matter , it would be their greatest hindrance to their restitution in france , which they had then good hopes of . upon this , the jesuits for sook them , and they were forced to submit to the king ; and so poor martha was quite dispossessed . thus we see what intrigues and designes are carried on by such impostures in the roman church ; that when such things escape examination they pass for miracles , but when they are throughly searched into , they appear to be meer cheats and impostures . i shall conclude this discourse of impostures with these passages out of the lord herber● history of henry . the king having issue male , proceede● more confidently in his designs ; and because he knew that the pretended and false miracles of priests had seduced many ignorant people to a superstitious obedience to the romish see and reverence of monasteries , he resolved to detect them , at least as many as he could ; for divers were so cunningly represented , as they had kept their credi● for some ages ; the manner of these times being , if a man were restored to his health upon a pilgrimage , or obtained any thing he desired upon a vow to some saint , never to study other cause . and here out of ou● records i shall mention some of the image● and relicks to which the pilgrimages o● those times brought devotion and offerings , as our ladies girdle , shewed in eleven several places , and her milk in eight , the bel● of st. guthlac , and the felt of st. thoma● of laneaster , both remedies for the head● ach : the pen-knife and boots of st. thomas of canterbury , and a piece of his shirt much reverenced by great-bellied women : the coals that roasted st. laurence ; two or three heads of st. ursula , malcus his ear ; and the pairing of st. edmonds nails ; the image of an angel with one wing which brought hither the spears head that pierced christs side ; an image of our lady with a taper in her hand , which burned nine years together without wasting , till one forswearing himself thereon , it went out ; and was now found to be but a piece of wood : our lady of worcester , from which certain veils and dressings being taken , there appeared the statue of a bishop ten foot high ; these and others were now brought forth and with great ostentation shewed to the people . among which were two notable trumperies i cannot omit : one was the rood of grace at boxley in kent ; which being made with divers vices to turn the eyes and move the lips was shewed publickly at st. pauls cross by john bishop of rochester and there broken and pulled in pieces . the other was at hales in gloucestershire , where the blood of christ brought from jerusalem being kept ( as was affirmed ) for divers ages , had drawn many great offerings to it from remote places : and it was said to have this property , that if a man were in mortal sin , and not absolved he could not see it ; otherwise very well : therefore every man that came to behold this miracle confest himself first to a priest there , and then offering something to the altar , was directed to a chappel where the relick was shewed ; the priest who confest him ( in the mean while ) retiring himself to the back part of the said chappel , and putting forth a cabinet or tabernacle of chrystal , which being thick on the one side that nothing could be seen through it , but on the other side thin and transparent they used diversely : for if a rich and devout man ●entred , they would shew the thick side , till he had paid for as many masses , and given as large alms as they thought fit : after which ( to his great joy ) they permitted him to see the thin side and the blood . which yet ( as my author a clerk of the council to edward the sixth and living in those times affirms ) was proved to be the blood of a duck every week renewed by the priests , who kept the secret betwixt them . besides which , the images of our lady of walsingham , of ipswich , of fenrise , of islington , and st. john of osulston ( called otherwise mr. john shorn ) who was said to shut up the devil in a boot ; and divers others were publickly burnt . and by this means the monasteries grew infamous where most of these images were kept , and divers were undeceived who before held a reverend opinion of these pretended relicks and miracles . after which , he relates , how the king discovered the forgery of the miracles pretended to be wrought at thomas beckets shrine , and that the scull which the people did so much venerate , was not his own , that being found together with his body in the tomb. i leave it now to the judgement of the reader , what credit such miracles deserve , which are reported by persons who think it lawful to lie in these matters , and which , where strict examination hath been made , have been discovered so often to be notorious impostures ? and this may abundantly suffice for the first particular , which was the comparing the miracles of the roman church with those of christ and his apostles in point of credibility . § . . . i come to compare them as to the testimony given by them to infallibility , i. e. whether the miracles supposed to be wrought in the roman church do equally prove that church infallible as those wrought by christ and his apostles did prove them infallible . for clearing of this i shall premise these particulars . . that it is agreed on both sides , that the miracles wrought by christ and his apostles , did sufficiently prove that they were teachers sent from god. for we are assured by the universal testimony of all christians ( not contradicted by their greatest adversaries ) that the first preachers of the christian religion did work so many , so publick , so great miracles , that all impartial persons could not but look upon them as persons immediately sent by god. and christ himself declared that this was the end for which he did those miraculous works , that men might believe by them that god had sent him , that without these men might have had an excuse for their insidelity , that his works did bear witness of him ; and his evangelist declares , that this was the end for which these miracles are recorded , that men might believe that jesus was the son of god. afterwards , when he was risen from the dead and he sent abroad his disciples to preach the gospel , he told them that god would bear them witness by divers signs and miracles and gifts of the holy ghost , of which we have a full account in the books of the new testament . as to all which miracles we have not the least ground of suspicion of any fraud or imposture , being publickly done in the presence of enemies , and written in a time when the testimony of writers might be easily contradicted , and when all imaginable way 's were used to make the first witnesses of these things to recant their testimonies , by the greatest severities and persecutions : in stead of which they persisted with great resolution and laid down their lives rather than weaken the testimony which they had given . thus we see such great and extraordinary effects of divine power which we ought to call miracles , were wrought by christ and his apostles on purpose to confirm their own authority that they were persons sent from god , and therefore could not deceive the world in the doctrine delivered by them . . the authority and doctrine of christ and his apostles being thus confirmed by the miracles wrought by them , there cannot be any such necessity in succeeding ages to confirm the same doctrine by miracles . for if it were once fully proved by those miracles then wrought , there can want nothing further to establish the faith of succeeding ages than a certain conveyance of those miracles to them . those miracles being wrought for the benefit of succeeding ages , as well as of that present age : and if those miracles would not serve for the ages following as well as that present time , it might with as much reason be said that then they did serve only for those who saw them . for on the same ground that persons then , in regard of distance of place , were bound to believe although they did not see them wrought ; so likewise are others in regard of distance of time , only supposing the certainty of conveyance to be equal . but it is with much advantage to us , by the concurrent testimony of so many ages , and the effects of the doctrine confirmed by those miracles upon so many nations of the world , not with standing all the power and subtility which were used against it . . the less the necessity and the greater the pretence to miracles , so much more reason there is to suspect them . because god , we are certain , doth not imploy his power in going beyond the common effects of nature to little or no purpose . when we see , that in all the writings of scripture miracles were very sparingly wrought , unless it were for the confirmation of a new religion , as that of moses and christ ; if asterwards we find such abundance of miracles pretended to , that no age or country of one sort of men , but give out that multitudes of these are done among them , what , must we think that god hath changed the method of his providence ? and not rather , that god is true , but such men are liars , or through ignorance and credulity take those for miracles which are not so . . those cannot be true miracles which are pretended to be wrought to confirm a doctrine contrary to what is already confirmed by miracles . for god will never imploy his power to contradict himself ; he may in the establishing of one religion foretel the comming of another afterwards in its room by his own appointment as in the gospel succeeding the law ; but the latter miracles in this case do not contradict , but rather confirm the doctrine of the former ; but when he hath declared that no other religion shall come into the world after that which is confirmed by miracles , as it is with the christian religion , then to suppose miracles wrought to confirm any doctrine contrary to that , is to suppose that god by miracles should contradict himself . therefore although in the beginning of a religion , the doctrine is to be proved by miracles , yet that being once supposed , miracles afterwards are to be tryed by the doctrine . and then though an angel from heaven should preach or offer to confirm any other doctrine by miracles than that which was first confirmed by christ and his apostles , we are bound to reject that doctrine and to suspect those miracles not to be from god. . where false and lying miracles are foretold by a doctrine confirmed by true miracles ; there can be no reason to believe upon such miracles till they are evidently distinguished from such as are deceitful . now this is plainly the case in the christian religion , christ himself hath foretold that men shall arise doing such great wonders in imitation of him as should deceive if it were possible the very elect ; and his apostles : that his greatest enemies should appear with all power and signs and lying wonders . can any thing be now more reasonable than after such forewarnings for us to examine all pretences of miracles , by trying whether they can be evidently distinguished from all deceitfull appearances of miracles ; which may be wrought by a power less than divine ? for in this case the evidence must be such , as the persons concerned are to judge by ; to tell them any distinctions which they cannot proceed by in the judgement of miracles , is to speak impertinently , where rules of judgement are required . . if the continuance of the power of miracles be asserted to prove the churches infallibility in every age , there must not only evident proof be given that such miracles are wrought , but that they are wrought for this very end . for if god may work miracles for another end , either to shew his providence in general , or particular regard to some men , then the meer proving miracles cannot be sufficient , but it must be shewed that these miracles could be wrought for no other end , but to prove the church infallible . these things being premised i now come to shew . . that in the roman church , they cannot give any evident distinction between the miracles they pretend to , and such which we are bid to beware of . . that they can never prove that the miracles wrought in their church could be wrought for no other end , than to prove the infallibility of their church . . that in the roman church they cannot give any evident distinction between their miracles and such as we are bid to beware of . for which we are to consider , that scarce any religion or superstition hath obtained in the world , but it hath pretended to be confirmed by some kind of mirac●es ; which in it self is no more a prejudice to true miracles than sophistical arguments are to true reasoning . but those who pretend to miracles in a church which is founded on a doctrine confirmed by undoubted miracles must give such evidence of the truth of them , as may apparently distinguish them from all false pretences . for if they give no other answers to such pretences of miracles as they condemn in others , but what will destroy the authority of the miracles asserted by themselves , then they can prove no more the churches infallibility by their miracles , than either philosophers ; heathens , or hereticks could do by theirs . if the bare pretence of miracles would serve , for all that i know pythagoras might deserve at least as much esteem as st. francis , or st. dominick ; for the scholars of the one delivered as unanimously the report of his miracles , as the disciples of the other could do . pythagoras his taming the daunian bear , ( reported saith porphyrie in his life by ancient writers of good credit ) and charging him never after to hurt any living creature , was to my understanding as great a miracle as st. francis his taming the wolf. and his whispering the tarentine bull in the ear and perswading him to eat no more bean's , ( who for his great abstinence afterwards was called the sacred bull ) was altogether as good an argument of the restoring the state of innocency to him , as the command over brute creatures was to st. francis , or any other legendary saints . the rivers saluting him ( whether it were called caucasus as porphyrie hath it , or nessus as laertius , and jamblichus , or cosas as aelian , or what ever were the true name of it ) was as great an argument of his sanctity , as the trees in tursellinus , howing to the chappel of loreto were of the miraculous sanctity of it . why should not his being seen at the same time at metapont in italy , and tauromenium in sicily , be as great a wonder , as the being seen in several places at once has being reported of several of the romish saints ? why should not his golden thigh be as miraculous , as the restored leg at zaragosa ? unless the priest abaris be proved a falser witness , than hieronimus brizids ; or the people of zarogosa less suspected of partiality , than the greeks , at the olympick games : at which some authors tell us pythagoras shewed his golden thigh . why should st. francis his asse that stood still to hear him preach , be more miraculous , than the asse , which suidas reports , heard ammonianus his lectures ? why should the speaking of images in the roman church prove the infallibility of the church of rome , more than it did in old heathen rome ? for as the roman breviary saith that an image spake to aquinas , and commended his writings , so the old roman writers say , that the image of fortune spake not once but twice to the matrons and commended their dedication of her : and so did the image of juno moneta at veij to the souldier that asked her whether she would go to rome ? to whom she answered , sh● would . why may not aesculapius his cure of the woman in his templeat epidaurus mentioned by aelian be thought as strange as xaverius his appearing to fr. marcellus mastrilli at naples and curing him upon his promise to go to the indies ? which is another of the miracles so much magnified by e. w. if there be any difference , that of aesculapius seems the greater miracle ? why should not the miracles attributed to the emperours vespasian , adrian , and aurelian , related by tacitus , suetonius , spartianus , and vopiscus , have as much credit at least as those of the legendary saints ? since the writers of them are looked on as men of more sincerity and integrity , by those of their own church , than the authors of the lives of the saints are . but to come yet nearer , how can their pretended miracles prove the church they are wrought in to be the true church and infallible ; since by their own confession , miracles to all appearance as great have been wrought among hereticks and in a false church ? and by the answers they give to these we shall easily judge , how far they can give evidence of the truth of their own miracles . the ecclesiastical historians report several miracles that have been wrought by hereticks and schismaticks ; philostorgius attributes the power of miracles to the arian bishops , to eusebius bishop of nicomedia , to agapetus bishop of synada , of whom he saith that he raised the dead and healed all sorts of diseases , to theophilus , to aëtius , eunomius , leontius , candidus , evagrius , arrianus , and florentius . socrates attributes the same power to the novatians ; as to paulus the bishop of that party when he was to baptize the jewish impostor , and the water mi●●aculously disappeared ; and sozomen to eutychianus of the same party ; and the donatists , to pontius and donatus as we have already seen from st. augustin . now if the tryal of the church in those day 's had been by miracles , i would fain know on which side the advantage had been ? st. chrysostom , disowns any such thing as a continuance of the power of miracles in the bishops of the catholick church , as besides the places already produced to that purpose , may be seen in several others : wherein he supposes , that there is not so much as a foot step of that power of miracles left in the church which was in the apostles ; he asserts , that god hath put a stop to miracles , that he doth not give it to the most worthy persons , that they were intended only for unbelievers , and that there is no need of them where the christian faith is settled . what now should be said in this case ? for it is just the same as between us and the church of rome , the catholick bishops pretended no more to a power of miracles than the protestant bishops do now ; but the arians , eunomians , novatians and donatists all challenged this power of miracles to themselves , therefore it is a plain case , if the church of rome be now in the right , then so were these heretical and schismatical parties , if the protestants be mistaken , so were st. chrysostom and the bishops of the ca●holick ch●r●h . but what answer now do these men give to these instances ? even such as very easily returns upon ●hemselves , and upon the very same grounds we may ove●throw the authority of their miracl●s . . they say , the testimony of the writers ought to ●e suspected of par●●ality to their own side . so m●laerus answers the testimony of socrates ; saying that he either f●igned , or related these miracles to the honour of his own party ; but this answer is both false and destr●ctive to t●emselves . it is false , becau●e notwithstanding what b●ronius , labbè and ot●ers have said , socrates ●as no novatian , as henri valesius , hath well proved in his preface to his history . but suppose he were , must the authority of all persons be taken away that relate things to the honour of their own church ? what then becomes of all the miracles of the roman church ? are they attested by any but such who are well wishers to the truth of them ? and that may go a great way in the belief of them . were not gabriel de aldama the vicar general and hieronymus brizids and the rest of the subscribers as great friends to the church of rome and as much conce●ned for the honour of it , as so●rates could be for the novatians ? why then should their testimony for the restored legat z●ragosa be more creditable than socrates his , for paulus the novatian bishop ? so that , if interest takes away all authority in these matters , then we cannot safely believe the testimony of any in the church of rome , for the miracles wrought in it ; if notwithstanding that , the authority of witnesses stands good , then miracles may be wrought in heretical or schismatical churches ; and consequently can prove nothing as to the truth , or infallibility of the church . but neither the novatians , nor arians , nor donatists were convicted of so many forgeries in this matter of miracles as those of the church of rome have been ; they never tho●ght it lawful , that we can find , to te●l lies for the honour of their church ; both which we have already proved concerning the reporters of miracles in the roman church ; and therefore their testimony ought more to be suspected in this matter , than that of honest heathens or hereticks . . they answer , that notwithstanding all the outward appearance of miracles , the things done by them might be no true miracles . so malderus goes on saying , that the pretended miracle of paulus the novatian bishop , was not such as did exceed the power of the devil . and bellarmin grants that there can be no infallible certainty of the truth of a miracle before the approbation of the church ; the reason he gives is this , because though the devil can do no true miracles , yet he can do the greatest to appearance . now i would sain understand this , how miracles can prove the truth and infallibility of the church , if the truth of miracles depends upon the churches approbation ? i. e. whether i must not first believe the church to be true , before i can possibly be certain whether a miracle be true or not ? i know , bellarmin saith , that the church is proved by miracles not as to infallible certainty ; but as to the evidence of credibility . but what evidence of credibility can there be from miracles , where no one can be certain whether they be miracl●s or not ? for the making faith credible by miracles doth suppose those miracles to be first certainly known to be such ; but in this case , if the power of the devil can extend so far , as that no certain difference can be assigned between true and apparent miracles , but from the churches approbation , how is it possible the church should be certainly known by miracles , if the miracles cannot be certainly known but by the church ? so that for us to distinguish the miracles done by hereticks and those in the catholick church , we must appeal to the judgement of the catholick church ; and yet our way to know , which is the catholick church saith e. w. and his brethren must be by miracles ; i. e. we must know a man by such marks which we cannot know to be the marks of such a man till we first know the man. but it may be others speak more consistently and reasonably in this matter : and therefore , . they answer , that although hereticks may do real miracles yet not for the confirmation of their heresie ; but of some common truth . so the same malderus saith , that the novatian miracle being granted to be true , doth not confirm the errour of the novatians , but the truth of the sacrament , for the jew was baptized before by the arians and macedonians . so 〈◊〉 medina salves the miracles wrought among the pagans , that they did give testimony to divine providence and not to their particular superstitions . fevardentius confesses the church hath never determined that hereticks cannot work true miracles , and that those who hold the affimative have plain testimonies of fathers for them ; which he there mentions . if this be true then miracles now can prove nothing as to the truth or infallibility of the church , when the communions of christians are different from each other ; for the miracles wrought may only be for the attestation of some common truths received among all christians or to manifest the providence of god to the world . among their late writers none hath considered this difficulty with more care and diligence than father lingendes hath done , both with a respect to the miracles of heathens and hereticks . to which he thus answers . . that for the most pa●t , they were false and counterseit , at least they were not true miracles , if the name of miracle be taken strictly and properly : for , saith he , either they were meer illusions of the senses , or they did not exceed any created power , either in the substance or the manner of them , and therefore the devils might easily eff●ct them . . that some circumstances did discover the imposture , when true miracles were wrought in opposition to them , as in pharaohs magicians and simon magus : otherwise god would not permit evil men to work miracles . . that god hath given a most certain rule for the tryal of miracles viz. god is faithful and cannot deny himself : and therefore he cannot be the author of miracles whereby things contrary to each other are confirmed . wherefore saith he , if a saith once established by miracles be impugned by other miracles , we are to believe the latter miracles to be meer imposture . for the apostle tells us , that jesus christ is not yea and nay , but a yea and amen ; and although we or an angel from heaven preach another gospel , let him be anathema : see the wisdom of the apostle : he brings us back to the first preaching , which was not lightly established but with innumerable miracles , which were most certain and most manifest : from whence he concludes that all others that are brought to confirm any doctrine contrary to this ought to be rejected . but of what sort ? even though an angel or an apostle should preach another doctrine ; for , saith he , among things impossible , that is the most impossible that god should lie : which is far more impossible than that an angel should ; and consequently what god hath once attested by miracles , can be less salse than when an angel hath attested ; or the apostle spake this , that by this means we may discover the devil , when he transforms himself into an angel of light . . if any true miracles were wrought among heathens and infidels , as it may be some were ; yet none were ever wrought to confirm any falshood or error , but for some truth , or some benefit to mankind , among which he reckons the miracles of claudia the roman lady and of the vestal virgin to give testimony to their innocency . after this he descends to a more particular examination of the miracles of hereticks and false christians ; and as to these he lays down these propositions . . that miracles are of two kinds , some strictly and properly so called , which are effects exceeding all created powers , either as to the substance or the manner of them ; as the curing a man born blind , the raising the dead , &c. others , are such as exceed the common power of nature , although there may be some secret and hidden causes of them that may lie within the compass of nature . the first sort he saith , are the only undoubted testimonies of truth ; but the other may be wrought by the devils power , either by local motion , or the application of the power of natural agents . of this sort , saith he , are the miracles done by false christs and false prophets and by antichrist ; and among these he reckons all manner of cures , when the diseases are not wholly incurable . . he saith that miracles of this later sort are equivocal signs and may be referred to different causes , and therefore nothing can be determined by them considered in themselves ; because they may be done by a different power and for a different end . when they are done for ostentation , or delight , or curiosity , they cannot have god for their author ; much less when they are wrought to confirm a false doctrine , or for an evil end : therefore when such miracles are wrought for confirmation of an error they have not god but the devil for their cause . for although they be aequivocal of themselves , yet the determining of them to an evil end such as the confirmation of an error is , takes away all aequivocalness in them . . he asserts , that true and proper miracles in the first sense , although most commonly wrought by good men as gods instruments , yet may sometimes be done , by wicked men , and hereticks and infidels . for which he instances in balaam , and those our saviour mentions , who should boast of the miracles they had wrought in his name , which christ doth not deny , but only rejects them for being workers of iniquity ; and in judas , who wrought miracles with the other apostles , although we do not read that the blessed virgin , or joseph , or john the baptist ever wrought any . he observes from st. austin that god gives this power of miracles to evil men when he denies it to good . . lest the power should be attributed to the instrument : or seem to take its vertue from thence . . because miracles are not wrought for the good of the efficient , but for the good of others . . lest men should set a higher value upon miracles than upon true goodness and vertue . for , saith he , this is a false consequence , such a man does miracles , therefore he is approved or his doctrine ; such a place miracles are wrought in , therefore such a place is approved ; for by this consequence , wicked men , hereticks and infidels would be approved , of whom it is certain that they have wrought miracles . . such kind of miracles though they may be done by hereticks can never be wrought sor the confirmation of error ; for that were to charge god himself with falshood ; but miracles of the other sort he grants may be wrought for the confirmation os errors , because they are such as do not exceed the devils power : and in this case to know whether they come from god or the devil , must be taken from the end for which they are wrought ; as he shews from s. austin . from which discourse of lingendes it follows , ●hat since the confirmation of christian re●igion by miracles , the only certain way of ●istinguishing true and deceitful miracles is from the end for which they were wrought : for he grants that to all outward appearance , hereticks and false christians may do as great ●s any ; nay god himself may use them as his instruments to confirm truth by ; but we are sure god cannot imploy his power to confirm a falshood . since therefore we are forewarned that men shall appear with such signs and lying wonders , as would if it were possible deceive the very elect ; since no distinction can be made from the things themselves between the effects of a created invisible power , and of a divine in most things which pass for miracles ; since hereticks may be gods instruments in the most divine miracles for a good end , it necessarily follows that the pretence of miracles is far from proving the truth and infallibility of the church wherein they are wrought , till it be made appear , that they are truly divine miracles , that they are wrought for this end to prove this churches infallibility , and that the churches infallibility doth not contradict any part of that doctrine which hath been already confirmed by the miracles of christ and his apostles . . they can never prove that the miracles wrought in the roman church , were wrought for no other end but to prove the infallibility of their church . when christ and his apostles wrought miracles to prove their infallibility , they wrought the miracles themselves , and declared that this was the end for which they were wrought that men might believe that they were teachers sent from god ; but there is nothing like this in the miracles of the roman church : they are generally pretended to be done at some shrine or monument , or by a vision of some saint , and among the most credulous people , but by no means for the satisfaction of infidels or hereticks , whose very presence is enough to spoil a well contrived miracle ; but supposing the things true which are reported , what doth a restored leg to a poor boy at zaragosa in spain signifie to the proof of the roman churches infallibility ? or father marcellus his cure at naples by a vision of xaverius , to the proof of pius the fourths creed ? if they will prove any thing by this way of miracles , let their missionaries here among us , whom they account infidels and hereticks , do the same things that christ and his apostles did for the conversion of jews and gentiles . let them heal all manner of diseases as pub●●ckly , as commonly , as perfectly , as sudden●y as they did ; and with no more art or cere●ony ; let us see them raise the dead , and not ●hink we will be put off with painted straws , 〈◊〉 counterfeit trances , which we hope they ●re ashamed of themselves ; such things , i as●●ure them , tend not to the credit of their ●ower of miracles among us , and do not much ●elp our faith in the belief of things done at ● great distance and in such places where credulity and superstition reign . if you do miracles in earnest do them before enemies , as christ and his apostles did , give us leave to stand by , that we may be satisfied from the circumstances of them that they are true miracles , and wrought to testifie that your teachers are sent from god. but you do not pretend to work miracles to confirm the authority of your teachers , for then of all persons your popes should work the greatest miracles , and the bishops who sit in general councils , among whom this infallibility is lodged , therefore there is no parallel between the miracles done in the church of rome , and those which were wrought by christ or his apostles . if all that had been pleaded in the apostles times for their divine commission had been only that a poor boy had his leg cut off and strangely restored , or that some persons were suddenly cured of a dangerous disease by the vision of an apostle , would this have ever satisfied the world , that the apostles were persons sent from god and assisted by an infallible spirit ? supposing the matters of fact were true , it might be reasonably demanded , why god might not do such extraordinary cures in some rare cases , without making that company of men infallible among whom they are done ? for we see their own writers acknowledge , that god may do real miracles even among pagans and infidels , to give testimony to his universal providence . and suarez particularly distinguisheth in this case of miracles , saying that a miracle may be wrought two ways . . without respect to any truth at all to be confirmed by it , but only for the benefit of him that receives it , as in case of a miraculous cure or such like . . when it is wrought purposely to confirm the truth of a doctrine . now i say , supposing i should grant all that e. w. contends for , as to the truth of the two miracles he insists so much upon , viz. the cure of f. marcellus , and the restored leg at zaragosa , what can this prove as to their churches infallibility , if according to suarez such miracles may be wrought only for the benefit of those who receive them ? del-rio saith this is no good consequence , such a one wrought miracles therefore his faith is true , because god may work miracles by insidels , but this consequence , he saith , is good , such a one wrought miracles to confirm the faith which he professed , therefore his saith is true , because god cannot work miracles purposely to confirm a falshood . but withall , he saith , elsewhere , that the faith being now established , there is little or no necessity of miracles to confirm it . supposing then some true miracles to be wrought in the roman church , what consequence can be thence drawn for that churches infallibility in doctrine , if those miracles are not wrought for that end ? as e. w. never undertook to prove that they were . and if the consequence will not hold as to a particular person for the truth of his faith , from the bare working of miracles , neither can it for the truth or infallibility of a church , for the same reason ; for if god may work miracles by infidels , he may likewise in a false or corrupt church . maldonat , another jesuit confesseth that since the christian religion hath been confirmed by miracles in the churches beginning , there is no necessity of miracles for that end , and quotes gregory and bede for it ; who compare the power of miracles to the watering of a plant which is only need●ul at first and is given over when it hath taken root . so that whatever miracles they suppose to remain in the church , they do not look on them as wrought for the confirmation of any necessary part of christian faith , such as the churches infallibility is asserted to be by e. w. andradius saith that miracles are oftimes false , but always weak proofs of a true church . ferus , that the doctrine of a church is not to be proved by miracles , but miracles by the doctrine , viz. because christ hath forewarned us of false prophets doing so many signs and wonders . so that acosta saith , that in the time of antichrist it will be a hard matter to discern true and false signs , when these later shall be many and great , and very like the true ; and he quotes it from hippolytus whom he calls an antient writer , that antichrist shall do far greater miracles than the cure of marcellus , or the restored leg at zaragosa , viz. that be shall raise the dead as well as cure the diseased , and have command over all the elements . and i would understand from e. w. whether antichrists church will not then be proved as insallible in this way as the church of rome ? cajetan determines that the church hath no ground to determine any matter of doctrine now on the account of miracles ; because the d●vil may do such things which we cannot distinguish from true miracles , as in great cures , &c. and because signs were given for unbelievers , but the church ●ow hath the revelation of prophets and apostles to proceed by : and because miracles prove only a personal faith , i. e. of one that saith he is sent from god ; and because the doctrine of the scripture is delivered to us with so much certainty , that if an angel from heaven should deliver any thing contrary to it we are not to believe him ; and lastly , because the most authentick testimonies of miracles among them , viz. in the canonization of saints , are not altogether certain , because it is written every man is a lyer : and he supposes that faith must stand on a more infallible certainty than that of their miracles . and many of their most learned writers do assert , that there can be no certainty of the truth of any miracles among them , but from the churches approbation ; which is in effect to say , they do not believe the church infallible because of their miracles , but they believe their miracles to be true , because they believe their church to be infallible . for which paulus zacchias gives this reason , because wicked men and devils may not only do miracles in appearance , but such as are really so , as the instruments of divine power ; and because credulous people are very apt to be deceived with false miracles instead of true . and after he hath laid down the conditions of a true miracle he hath a chapter on purpose to enquire , why since miracles very rarely happen , yet so many are still pretended to in the roman church ? one cause he assigns of it is the monstrous credulity of their people in this matter of miracles , who make so many , that he saith , if they were to be believed , miracles would be almost as common as the ordinary effects of nature ; for no odd or unusual accident happens , but among them passes for a miracle ; no man escapes out of a dangerous disease ( especially if by the disturbance of his fancy , he imagines he had a vision of some saint as xaverius or the like ) but he gives out he obtained his recovery by a miracle ; no man avoids any great danger or trouble ( if he chanced to think of the blessed virgin in it , or made any addresses to some saint , for i do not find that praying to god or christ is so effectual for miracles as praying to the saints is ) but this is cryed up for a miracle . riolanus gives the relation of a man that was hanged and his body delivered to the physitians to be dissected , who found there was some lise in him , and by letting blood and other means they recovered him , who afterwards returning to his own country oetingen , where there was a celebrated image of the blessed virgin , this very recovery was there painted for a substantial miracle . but to return to zacchias : miracles , saith he , are made so common among us , as though god had nothing else to do with his power but to pervert the course of nature by it at the beck of any idle fellow ; as it god did not manage his power , as he does all things else , with infinite wisdom ; as if god imployed his extraordinary power without great and most urgent causes . for when it was necessary to shew his power for the confirmation of the christian religion and the satisfaction of unbelievers , then all persons might see the wonderful works of god : but now , saith he , when the truth of christianity is known it would be to no purpose for god to shew so many miracles . but whence then comes it , that so many miracles are still talked of ? this arises , saith he , from the devotion of some who attribute ordinary effects of nature to a miraculous power ; and from the superstitious folly and fraud of others who will not endure any thing cryed up for a miracle should be ever questioned by any ; but say , it is profane , atheistical , and which is somewhat worse , heretical to do it . whereas poor wretches , they do not think what injury they do the catholick cause , while they go about to strengthen it with lies and forgeries ; when the christian doctrine is already fully confirmed by the most true and undoubted miracles of christ and his apostles . what need they then to feign any new miracles ? doth god need your lies , will ye talk deceitfully for him ? as i may justly use the words of job , saith he , of these men . another cause of so much talk of miracles in the roman church , he saith , is ignorance ; whereby any extraordinary accident , though such as might happen , where christianity was never known , is extolled for a miracle . quorum operum causas nulla ratione videre possunt , haec fieri divino numine rentur . from hence he proceeds to particulars , and shews , that most of those who are accounted possessed among them are melancholy and hypochondriacal men and hysterical women : and then examins the pretence to inspiration and prophecy , to raptures and extasies , to miraculous cures , to prodigious fastings , to incorruption of bodies , to raising from the dead and shews under every one of these heads , how very often the meer effects of nature pass for miracles in the roman church ; to whose learned discourses i refer the reader : and we may easily understand the meaning of such a person , when he tells us after all this , that the church will not suffer men to be deceived about miracles , but such as the church approves are to be approved . now let any one judge whether such persons who receive no other miracles , but such which the church commands them to believe , could ever imagine that the infallibility of their church was proved by such miracles , which they would not believe to be true , unless they first believed the church which approved them to be infallible . fortunatus scacchus , a man of great authority in rom● , grants that it is a very easie matter to take false miracles for true ; and that no certain argument can be taken from tables which are hung up at images or shrines ; that wicked men may do real miracles , which he proves from scripture and history , and the continued practice in their church , from whence he concludes , that no argument can be drawn for the sanctity of any person , but only from such miracles as are approved by the roman church . for , saith he , it belongs only to the authority of the roman see , and the bishop of rome to determine which are true miracles ? because the promise of infallibility is only made to the roman church and the head of it . from whence he concludes , that no other bishop hath any power to approve miracles , especially if they be supposed to be wrought by an uncanonized saint . for we are to understand , that the great use of miracles in the roman church , hath not been pretended to be for proving the faith or infallibility of the church , but for an argument of saintship of those who are to be beatified or canonized . so aquinas determines , that miracles are either wrought to confirm the truth of a doctrine preached ; or for the demonstration of the sanctity of a person ; and therefore in the process of canonization , one main enquiry is , about the miracles wrought by the person who stands for the preferment of canonization . in the process about the canonization of andreas corsinus presented to paul . the auditours of the rota , say , that to the being canonized , it is concluded by all to be necessary that the person have wrought miracles : and there they agree that it is not necessary to a miracle to be wrought for the confirmation of faith , seeing miracles may be done for another end viz. for the proof of the sanctity of the person . and such miracles say they , are those which are done among catholicks , for whose sake miracles would be necessary on no other account : because miracles are a sign not to believers but to unbelievers ; whence , as they well observe from isidore st. paul cured the father of publius by a miracle , but pres●ribed to timothy a natural remedy . and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 many other processes of canonization to the same purpose viz. to prove that it is not necessary to a miracle that it be done for the confirmation of any part of christian faith . since therefore the far greatest number of the miracles in the roman church , are such as are wrought for another end how can they from them prove the infallibility of their church ? unless they can make it appear that where ever there are true saints , the church is infallible . from which it appears , that the miracles of the roman church ought no more to be compared with those of christ and his apostles as to the testimony by them given to infallibility , than in point of credibility ; and that in both respects they are , so infinitely short of them , that nothing but the height of impudence could make any man , pretending to be christian , to assert , that as great ( nay greater ) miracles have been done by the roman church , as ever were done by christ or his apostles , in which subject i have taken the more pains , not meerly to detect the frauds and impostures of the roman church ; but to preserve and vindicate the honour of christianity , lest that should suffer by the intolerable rudeness of these comparisons . the end . books sold by henry mortlock , at his shop , at the phoenix , in st. paul's church-yard , and at the white-hart in westminster hall. a rational account of the grounds of protestant réligion ; being a vindication of the lord arch-bishop of canterburies relation of a conference from the pretended answer of t. c. by edward stillingfleet d. d. in folio . cotgraves dictionary french and english , in folio . sermons preached by anthony farindon . folio . house of mourning , in folio . sheppards practical counsellor , in folio . animadversions on the . part of cooks institutes , by william prynne esq folio . observations upon millitary and political afairs , by the right honorable george duke of albemarle . folio . origines sacrae , or a rational account of the grounds of christian faith , by edward stillingflee● , d. d. in quarto . irenicum , a weapon salve for the churches wounds , by edward stillingfleet , d. d. in quarto . the being and well being of a christian , in . treatises , by edward reyner , late minister at lincoln . in octavo . a fathers testament . in octavo . the history of the administration of cardinal ximenes great minister of state in spain . in octavo . a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it , in answer to some papers of a revolted protestant ; wherein a particular account is given of the fanaticisms and divisions of that church . by edward stillingfleet . d. d. octavo . the moral philosophy of the stoicks . in octavo . the original of romanees . in octavo . hools greek testiment . in twelves . hodders arithmetick . in twelves . drexelius on eternity . in twelves . the advice of charles the . emperor of germany and king of spain ; to his son philip the second , upon his resignation of his crown to his said son , in twelves : now in the press and will speedily be published . sermons preached upon several occasions , ( five of which were never before printed ) with a discourse annexed concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ , wherein crellius his answer to grotius , is considered by edw. stillingfleet , d. d. in folio . knowledge and practice ; or a plain discourse of the chief things necessary to be known , believed and practised in order to salvation , by s. cradock , in quarto : a book very useful for private families , both sold by henry mortlock , at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , and at the white-hart in west-minster hall. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e the state of the controversie about infallibility , and the resolution of faith. the principles of the guide in controversies . guide in contro . disc . . ch . sect. . sect. . sect. . ibid. sect. . sect. . . . sect. , . sect. . sect. s●c● s●ct . . sect. . those principles considered . lugo de ●irtute fidei disp . . sect. . p. . es●i . in . sent . . d. sect. . paul. lay-man . th●olog . moral . . l. lr . . c. . knots answer to chillingworth p. . of particular divine revelation as the ground of faith. it . . sect. the resolution ofdivine faith must agree to all ? of immediate asnt . of the assistance of the holy ghost . the absurdities of these principles . sect. . the principles of e. w. laid down . disc. . c. . p. , . disc. . c. . disc . c. . c. . c. . c. n. . c. n. . n. . c. . n. . dis. c. . n. . c. . ● . c . n. . c. , . some things premised to the s●a●e of the question . rational account , part . c. . sect. . reason and religion , disc. c . n. . p. . n. , . n. . n. . n. . n. , , . n. . n. . protest . without principles , disc. . c. . n. . lugo de virtute fidei divinae disp. . sect. . n. . sect. . n. . suarez de fide disp. . sect. . n. . sect. n . lugo , ib. of the notion of divine faith. francise . bo●ae spei to. tr. . de side . disp . . dub . . the true state of the question . reason and religion . discours . . c. . n. . protest . without principles disc. . c. . n. . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . n. , . my first argument laid down and defended . disc. . c. . n. , . disc. c. . ● . . ●● . n. . of the motives of credibi●ity ; and their instaence on faith . suarez de side disp . . sect . . greg de va● nt . tom. . disp . . q. . p●act . . med n● de rect â in deum●side l. . lugo de side . disp . . s●●l . . fincisc . valent. co●●●●dia juris po●isicii cum caesareo part . q. . sect . . suarez . de fide disp . . sect . . n. . n. . n . n. . lugo de vi●t . sidei divinae disp . . sect . . n. . aquin. . . qa . art . . cajet . in loc . of the grounds of faith . canus l. . c. . lugo de virt . fidei disp . . sect . . protest . without principles disc . . c. . n. . reason and religion disc . . c . n. . c. . n. . n. . n. . disc. . c. . n. . of the scripturen●●ion of the obscurity of faith. heb. . . lugo de virtut . fid . divin . disp . . sect . . n. . dis. . c. . n. . c. . n. . holden analys . fidei l. . c. . of the power of the will in the assent of faith. arriaga curs philo. disp . . sect . disc. . c. . n. , , . c. . n. . c. . n. . lugo de fide disp . . sect. . il . . rational account part . c. . s●ct . . the second argument defended against e. w. joh. . . pet. . . luk. . , disc. . c. . n. . rational account pa●t . c. . sect. . c. . n. . ● . . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. ● n. . rational account pa●t . c . sect . . disc. . c. . ● . . c. . a. . rational account part . c. . of the circle in the resolution of faith , not avoided by e. w. diss. . c. . n. . n. . n. s , . n. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . sexius empir . pyrr●o . hypo●p . l. . c. . n. . e. w's assertions about the miracles of the roman church . rational account pa●t c. . s●ct . . reason and religion disc . . c. . n. , . n. . disc. . c. , . c. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n . c. . of the miraculous translation of the chappel of loreto . baron . annal. ● tom. . a. . ● . . casaub. exercit . . sect . . ca●is . his● . deiparae l. . c. . heb. . ▪ rav●ald . a. d. . n. , . bzov. anal. ad a. d. . n. . spo●dan . a. d. . n. . govo● . chronic deip . a. d. . t●rsellin . hist. la●ret . . . c. . c. . c. . vi●cent . sorm . de assamp . b. v. ●a●on . a●●al . a. d. . ● . . tursel . hist. la●ret . l. c. . blondi italia illustr . in piceno p. . leand. albert . in picen . p. . of the m●racles wrought at the chappel of loreto . jo●ph de bello jud. l. . dio● in vit . trajani quares●n . elucid . terrae s. l. . c. . per●gr . . t●s●ll . hist. lauret . l. . c. . turs●ll . hist. laur●t l. . c. . l. . c. . c. , c. , c. . l. . c. , , , . , . l. , , , , , , , &c. tursill . l. . c. . ● . . c. . polyd. virgil de i●vent . rer . l. . c . lambin ia horat. l. . od. . cicer. de nat. d. or . . . diodor. si●ul . ●ist . l. . p. . tibull . l. . eleg. . strab● . geogr. l. . mercur. de arte gymnast . l. c. . ciccr. act . . ia ●er● . of the miracles wrought by s. james at co●postella , baron . a● . a d. . n. , , . co●cil . gen. tom. . part . p. . antoai● . chro● . part . c. . tit. . bel●th de divinis o● ficiis c. . portiforiuū s●cundum usum sacrum julii . vincent . spec . histor . l. . c. . biva●ii comme●t . in dextri chronic. a. d. . mariana de rebus hisp. l . c. . mar●ans de adve●tu ja●●bi c. . baron a●nal . n. . baron . annal . a. d. . n. , . mariana de a●vsn●u jacobi c. . vincent . sp●c . hist. l. . c. . c. . ibid. c. . c. . ibid. c. . c. . of st. mary magdalens vial and other reliques . toiet i● c. . l● . c. an●o . ● . joh. ferrandi disquis . reliqui . l . c. . sect . . bolland acta sector●m jan . p. , , &c. innocent . de missae myster . l. . c. . ●e●and . disq . reliq . l. . c. . sect . . brigit revel . l. . ferrand . l. . c. . sect . . dis● . reliq . l. . c. . sect . . spo●d . a. ● . . n. . moliaai . hyperaspi●t . c. . f●r●a●d . l. . c. . ibid. l. . c. . sect . job la●●oii de co●me●titio lazari & maximini , marthae & magdalen● in pro●in●iam app●l●u opuscula . paris . . viacen● . spec. ●i● . l. ● . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . la●noy p. . p. . of the miracles of s. dominick . a●tonin chron. part . tit. . c. . sect . . nicol jansenii vit . domini . l. . c. . nicol. jansenii vit . s ▪ do ninic . l. . c. . th●od . de a●poldid vit . s. d. l. a●ud suri●m aug. . brev. rom. aug. . lect . . jansen . commentar . ad vit . s. dom. p . auco●in . chro● . p. . tit. . c. . jarsen . vit . dom l. . c. . lud : granat . con● . . de festo s. dominici jans . vit . dom. l. . c. . jans ib. l. . c. . theodorie . vit . dom. l. . c. . alanus de rupe de d●gnit . psal. c. . go●on . chronicon . d iparae a. d. . bzov. a. . n. . janse● . l. . c. . bzov. a●nals a. d. . n. ● . of the miracles of st. fra●cis . wadding annales min. a. . n. . wadd . ib. n id a. . n. id. a. . n. , . speculum vitae s. fra. l. . c. . spoelberch . not in specul●m francise . hen. sedulii apolog●tic . adversus alcoran . francis. pro libro conformit . l . c. . bonov . vit . s. franc. l. c. ● . n. . wadding an. . ● . , , , bonavent . l. . c. . ● . . wadding a. . ● . ● . bonav . l. . c. . n. . id. ib. n . fuseb . nie●emb . hist. nat●r . l. . c. . wadding at. . n. . st. anton. chron. tom. . tit . c . wadding aa . n. . specuium francis. l. . c. . wadding a. . ● . . speculum francis. l. . ● . . speculum francis l. . ● . . wadding a. . ● . . of the miracles related of the british and irish sain's . cr●ss●'s church-history , b ok . c. . n. . book . c. . n. . book . c. . n. . book . c. . n. . book . c. . n. . capgrav . f. . . alford a●nales eccl●s . a. d. . n. . cressy's church-history book . c. . n. . capgrav . f. . . cressy's church-history l. . c. . n. . breviar . sccu●dum ●s●m sar●m . nov. ●ect . . capgrav . f. . . cressy's church-history l. . c. ● . n. . capgrav . f. . . id. f. . . id. f. . i● . f . . id. f. . . colgan . acta sanctorum hib●r . . martii . vit . s. cadroe n. . colganus . j●● . ●it . d●● o●ae n. . bol●and . acta sa●cto●um . j●● . . vit . d●●col●e c . messingham floril●● . sa●cto●●● hibera . vit . b●i●idae c. . bo●land . acta sanctorum feb. . vit . st. brigidae c. . n. . bolland . comm●●t . prav . ad acta brigl . sect . . n. . capgrave f. . alford a●●al●s eccl●s . a. d. . n. . colganus ad jad . i● vit . st. berac● . n. . colganus . martii p. . . martii . p. . . m●●● . p. . v. fursaei . jan. apud colg . n. . bollandus not . in vit . s. fars . . jan. c. . n. . wion . lig● . vitae l. . p. . vit s. fursaei c. . n. . colginus . martii v. s. mocht●i n. . colganus martii p. . v. st. cathaldi ● . . capgrave f. . id. f. . vit. s. aldelm apud s●rium . maii. cressy's ch●●ch hi●t . l. . c. . n. . portisor . sarish . . maii. ●ect . capgrave f. . id. f. . colganus vit . s. kierani ● . mart. n. . capgrave f. . bolland . acta sector●●n jan. . p. . bolland . praef . gen . c. . sect . . capgrave f . id. f. . id. f. . id. f. . cr●ssy's church-history l . c. . n. . malmsbury f. . alford a●nal . a d. . n. . id. ib. n. , . capgrav . f. co . capgrav . vi●● st. oudocei f. . c●●ss●'● c●ur●h-history l. . c. ● . n. , . c●pgrav . f. . cr●ss●'s church-h●●tory l. . c. . n. . capgrav . f. ● . ld . f. ● . id. 〈◊〉 cress●'s church-history l. . c. ● . n. , . c●●grav . f. . ca●g●av f. ● . it . hilde●●●hae . joce● . in v●t . st. pa●●icii c. . colg●n . acta s●cto●●m h●bern . ● . . . martii . colgan . ● . jan. vit . s. mai●ocin . . id. . feb. vit . s. finnian . n. . id. . martii v. v. senani . id. . ma●t . p. . id. . feb. p. . id. . mart●i n. . ca●grav . f. . capgrav . f. . acta sancto um . martii n. . jocelin vit . st. patricii c. . capgrav . f. . colgan . . ●an . n. . capgrav . v●t st. aida● . p. . acta s●cto●●m on jan. . c. . n. . capgrav . f. . cresse's church-history l. . c. . n. . colgan . acta sctor●m hibern . p. . acta se●torum jan. c. . ● . , . capgrav . f. . bo●land . jan. ● . . colgan . jan. vit . fech . ● . & p. . capgrav . f. . colgin . . martiin . ● . p. . colgan . ● . jan vit . fech . n. . n. . vit s. fechini n. . p. . acta sanctorum . ja. vit . kentig . c. . n. . n. . bolland . praf . gener . c. . sect ● . capgrave vit . s. modwennae f. . capgrave vit . s. neoti f. . id. svit . s. bernaci f. . colgan . acta sanctorum hibe . n. . mart. n. . colgan . p. . c●●gr . 〈◊〉 , s pirani . f. . colgan . vit . s. ab●a●i . marti● n. . n. . n. . colga● . vit . s colmanni p. . colgan ▪ . ma●t n. . id. . jan. n. . jocelin . vit . s. patric . c. . co●gan r. ja● vit . s. fintani ● . . capgr . f. . id. f. . capgr . f. . capgr . f. . alford . annales a. d. . n. . . capgr . f. . id. f. . f. . id. f. . f. ● . colgan . . jan. ● . . p. . jo●elin vit . s. patric●i c. . c. . c. . colgan . . ma●ii vit . s gerald . . id. . ma●tii vit . s. abban . ● . . id. . jan. n. . . vit . st. fechini p. , . id. ib. ● . n. . co●gan . . martii p. . lect . . martyrolog . a●gli● . ad ● . maii. quaresm . elu●id . terrae sectae l. . c. . colgan . . jan. vit . s. fancheae n. , . colgan . . jan. vit . s. schotini n. , . n. . n. . colgan . . jan. vit . maidoci n. . capgr . f. id. f. . colgan . . jan vit . s molaggae n. . id. . f●● . vit . c●annae n. . id. p. . id. . martii vit . s. abbani n. . n. . colgan . . jan. n. . capgrave f. . capgr . vit . s. modwennae . f. . capgr . vit . s. decum . f. . id. f. . colgan . . feb. vit . s cuannae n. . colgan . . feb. vit . guigneri n. . jocelin . in vit . s. patricii c. . david roth el●cid . in jocel . c. . colgan . vit . s. david . martii n. . colgan . . martii p. . capgr . vit . s. brendani f. . joh●a bosco bibliotheca floriac . viis s. machut c. , . vit. st. machut . c. . c. . colgan . . marti● vit . st. abbani n. . pitseus de-scr●ptoribus angliae a. d. . possevin in apparatu v. capgrave . harpsfield . sect . . c. . pits descrip . ang. a. d. . of the testimonies of st. chysost . and st. august . against the continuance of the power of miracles . chrysost. in . ep. ad corinth . hon. . tom. . ed savil. p , &c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . chrysost. in . ad tim 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . . p. . de sacerdot . l. . p. . auctor . impersect o● . in matth. hom . . nunc aut●m sig●o●●m operatio om nino levata ●st : magis a●●em & apud eos inve●itur , qui sal●● s●nt christia●i fi●ri ficta . carol. scribanii orthodox . fid●i cont●o● . l. . c. . david r●●h . ●lucid in joc●lin . p. . baron . a. d. . n. . ca●grave vit st. thel ▪ f . colgan . vit . st. david n. . capgrave . vit . st. goodric f. . lud , bail. bibliothec a co●cionatorum p. . c. . raynald . a. d. n. . mariana d● r. bus hisp. l. . c. . ribadin●ira flos sectorum . junii . vita st. anto●ii c. . . ed. d● la haye . sc●●id● . . at . mundi●t . seduli . tract . de sa●ctis or. ribaden . . junii . . st. antonin . chro● . ton. . tit . . s●ct . . spondan . a. d. . n. . nicol de clemangis ●p . . rauzan . vit . st. vincentii apud bzov. a. d. . sect . apud surirum . aprilis . joh. gerson c. sectam se s●ag●lla●●●● tom. . p. . chrysost. in pa●y● . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . august . de verâ relig . c. . de ●tilit . cred . c. . . retract . l. . c. . ib. c. . de civit. d●i l. . c. . in psal. . v . de unit . eccles . c. . tract in joh , c. . de verbis dom. scrm. . quaest. ex novo tes●an . c. . of the testim●nies of their own writers against the miracles of the roman church . lud vi●es detrad . discipl l. . m●l●● ca● . lo. th ol l. . c. . loc. th●o . log l. . p●ooe● . reason and religion disc. . c. . n. . s. cuthberti vita auctore bed● tom . . & ap●● colg . martii . & bolla●d . . tom . martii . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . 〈◊〉 . not . in martyr . decemb. . greg. dialog . l. . c. . capgr . f. . . greg. l. . c. . c. . c. . ib. c. . ib. ib. c. . c. . pet. damiani vit . st. romua●di prolog . joha gerson declar . lyra in c. . dan. cajetan . op●●c . trac . . de concept . b. v. ad lcon . . c. . joh. launoy de curd e●●l● . pro. 〈◊〉 . ss . a●t . . co●oll . . po yb . h●stor . l. . p. . ed. casaub. guibert abbas de pignoribus sanctorum . l. . c. . c. . s●ct . sect. . cap. . sect. . sect. . lucas d'achery not . in guibert p. . nicol. vit . st. godefridi l. . c. . sect. . hugo menard not . in co●c●●d . regul . c. . p. . greg. turon hist. l. . c. . lib . c. . c. . s. . c. . s. , , . sect. . joh. launoy d●sq . disquis . de magdal . massil . p. . andreas resend . de martyr . eborens . ep. ad barth . kebed . p. . to. . r●rum hispanic . bea● . rh●● . r. r. g●rma● . l. . p. . dempster eccles. hist. l . n. . tostatus in levit. c. . q. . com●●ent . in matth. c. . q , in matth. . q. . ros●●●●s . c. luth●r de ca●ivit . babyl● . . sect. . erasm. in . ep. ad cor●●th . . . stella in luc. . . victoria relect. . p. . acosta de procurand● indorum salute l. . c. , . epistol . japan . . p. . e●ist . japan . . p. . bellarm. de not is eccl. l. . c. . maffei hist. indic . l. . pa●l . zacchiae quaest. medico . l●gales l. . tit . . q. . n. . kirchman . de funeribus rom. l. . c. . korman . de mira ulis mort●orum p. . c. . al●gambe biblioth . so●iet . j●s● p . h●storia christi persic . à xaverio , ●●atine edita à lud. de di●u p. erasm. schol. in ●p . hi●r . baron . apparat . n. , . cani loc. th olog . l. . c. . sixtus senenj . b●blioth . l. . in matth. historia christi p. xaver . p. rayeaud . diptych . maria● , n. . bened. gonon chronicon . d●i● . p. . xaver . p p. , &c. p. . ibid. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . of the impostures and forgeries of miracles in the roman church . gla●●●●od●lpi hist. l. . c. . guil. neubrigens . de r●bus a●glicis l. . o. , . jacob. de vitriaco histor. occidental . c. ● . otto de sancto ●lasio a●pend . ad otton . frising . c. . ja● . de vitr . c. . matth. w●stmonast . a. d. . knighton l. . p . apud . scriptores . hoveden . annal. p. post . p. . jac. de vitriaco c. . d'a●herii spicil●g . tom. . p. . raynald . ad a d . ● . . rigord . de g●s● is philippi a d. . jac. de vitriaco . c. . hist. occid . rob. a●tissiod . chron. ad a. d. . jac. de vltriaco ● . . si●on . de regno i●ali● l. . fulgos. l. . ti● . de relig. cul●● c. . spondan . annal. eccl. a. d. . n. . vi●nie● histor. de l'eg●●se a. d. . mat. paris in hen. . a. d. . odoric . raynald . a. d. . n. ; , . pelri de valle-clausâ diatrib . advers . cyriacos sect. . joh. casalas candor lilii vindicatus p. . bzov. annales a. d. . n. . de . haeresiarchis ordinis praedicatorum , &c. apud suitc●ses in civitate berne●si combustis a d. . trithem . chro●ico● sponheim . a. d. . petr. mart. ●p . , . basel addit . ad naucler . s●ri . comment . 〈◊〉 gest . del rio disquisit . magic . l. . c. . q. . sect . . spondan . a●n . a. d. . n. . petrus 〈◊〉 valle-claus● sect . . candor li●il vindicat. p. . sleida● . comment . l. . a. . ribadincira de vit . ignatii l. . c. . del-rio disquis . mag. l . q. , . benzo hist. novi orbis l . c. . ribadin●ir . vit . ign. lo●lae l. . c. . hasen muller . histor. j●suitici ordinis c. . t●uan . ●ist . l. . h●rberts hist of h●●●y . a. d. . p. . p. , . their miracles being granted do not prove their churches infallibility . matt. . . john . . . . . , . mark. . , . heb. . . matth. . . thess. . . porphyr . vit . pythag. s●id v. an●mo●●●● . val. max. l. . c . ● . . . aelian . de animal . l. . c. . tacit. hist. . sueton. v●sp . c. . spartian . i● adrian . vo●iscus in a●●l . philostorg . ap●d . phot. cod. . & apud nic●tam choniat l. . c. . philostorg . l. . tom . . l. . tom . . l. . n. . l. . n. . so●rat . l. . c. . sozo● . l. . c. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. chrys. de sacerd l. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in ma●th . hom . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . tom. . p. . tom. p. . mald●r . i● tho● . . . q. . art . . sect . . bellarm. de no●is eccl. l. . c. . mich. medina de rectâ in det●n fide l. . c. . p. . fevardent . not . in iren. l. . c. . lia●endes ●o●cion in quadrag . tom. . 〈◊〉 . . cor. . , . gal. . . 〈◊〉 d● fi● 〈◊〉 sect. . ● . del. rol. disquis . magic . l. . c. . l. . c. . quaest . . sect . . mal●at . in m● . , . andrad . def●l . fi● . trid. l. . fer. in math. . v. , . acosta de te●p . noviss . l. . . . c. . cai●t . de c●pt . virciaus c. . paul za●chiae quaest medico . legal●s . l. . tit . . q. . n. , , . q. . n. . riola . arth opogra●● l. . c. . n. . n. . quaest. . , , , , , . fortun. scacch . de notis & signis sa●ctitatis s●ct . . c. . aq●in . . quaest . . art . . proc●ssus cano●iz . b. andr●ae co●sini part . . sect . . contelor . de canoniz . sanctorum . cap. . n. . a sermon preached before the king & queen at white-hall, march , / by ... edward, lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached before the king & queen at white-hall, march , / by ... edward, lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed for henry mortclocke [sic] ..., london : . marginal notes. reproduction of original in duke university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- o.t. -- ecclesiastes xi, -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached before the king & queen at white-hall , march . / . by the right reverend father in god edward lord bishop of worcester . published by their majesties special command . london , printed for henry mortclocke at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . . ecclesiastes xi . . rejoyce , o young man , in thy youth , and let thy heart chear thee in the days of thy youth , and walk in the ways of thy heart , and in the sight of thine eyes ; but know thou , that for all these things god will bring thee into judgment . if solomon had said , rejoyce not , o young man , in thy youth , neither let thy heart chear thee in the days of thy youth ; walk not in the way of thine heart , nor in the sight of thine eyes ; for know thou , that for all these things god will bring thee into iudgment , the sense had been so easie and plain , that there had been no appearance of difficulty in reconciling one part with the other : for the whole had been look'd upon but as a necessary and seasonable admonition to such who by the heats of youth , and strength of inclination , and allurements of the world , are too apt to be transported with the love of sensual pleasures . and this had been very becoming the wise man towards the conclusion of his book , wherein he had not onely before set forth the several vanities of humane life ; but so soon after , bids men remember their creatour in the days of their youth , while the evil days come not , nor the years draw nigh of which they shall say they have no pleasure in them . i. e. in the days wherein they are most apt to walk in the way of their hearts , and in the sight of their eyes . for he knew very well , that nothing is so powerfull a check and restraint upon mens inclinations to sin , as the serious consideration of that god that gave them their beings , and will bring them to an account for their actions . but how then comes he in this verse to seem rather to give a permission to young men in the time of youth to indulge themselves in their mirth and vanity ? rejoyce , o young man ▪ in thy youth , &c. some think that the wise man onely derides and exposes them for their folly in so doing ; but that seems not agreeable with the grave and serious advice which follows . and we find nothing like irony or sarcasm in any part of the foregoing book ; for he begins it with a tragical exclamation against the vanities of humane life ; vanity of vanities , saith the preacher , vanity of vanities : all is vanity . and he pursues his argument by a particular induction of the most tempting and pleasing vanities of life ; and particularly all sorts of sensual delights ; as mirth and iollity in the first place , then wine and musick , fine palaces , curious vineyards , gardens and pools , a great retinue , and , which was needfull to maintain all this , abundance of silver and gold. but what a melancholy reflection doth he make on all these pleasures of life ? then i looked on all the works that my hands had wrought , and on the labour that i had laboured to doe ; and behold all was vanity and vexation of spirit . what incouragement then could the wise man , after so much experience of the world , give to young men here in the text , to rejoyce in the days of their youth , and to walk in the way of their hearts , and in the sight of their eyes ? i. e. to pursue vanity , and to lay the foundation for greater vexation of spirit , when they come to reflect on their own follies . what then is the meaning of these words ? for this , we are to observe , that the preacher having declared his own main scope and design in the beginning and conclusion of his book , brings in sometimes the different senses which mankind are apt to have concerning the happiness of life . and that is the reason that we meet with such different expressions concerning it . in one place it is said , that there is no better thing under the sun , than to eat and drink and to be merry ; but in another , he saith , sorrow is better than laughter , and by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better . in one place he saith , all things come alike to all , there is one event to the righteous and to the wicked : but in another , that it shall be well with them that fear the lord , but it shall not be well with the wicked . how can such passages as these be reconciled , if we look on them as expressing the sense of the same person ? but if we allow them to be the different notions of two sorts of men in this world , they are easie to be understood , although not to be reconciled . and the one sort is of those who place all happiness in this life , without regard to religion or vertue , or another world ; and the other of those , who look on this life onely as a passage to another ; and that all persons ought to behave themselves here , so as conduces most to their happiness hereafter . and according to these different schemes , we have in the words of the text two very different sorts of counsel and advice to young men . i. the first proceeds upon the supposition that all the happiness of man lies in this life , and in the enjoyment of the sensual pleasures of it ; rejoyce , o young man , in thy youth , and let thy heart chear thee in the days of thy youth ; and walk in the way of thy heart , and in the sight of thy eyes . we have no other rule here given but the sight of the eye , and the way of the heart ; i. e. outward appearance and inward inclination ; and these are the beloved rules of the most sensual and voluptuous persons , and they judge of happiness onely by the pursuit of them . here is nothing mention'd of reason or conscience , or a regard to vertue in the restraint of natural inclinations : nay , here is nothing of that severity which epicurus himself thought necessary towards the maintaining of a pleasant state of life ; which he granted could never be done without some restraint of mens appetites and inclinations to the pleasures of sense ; and it is not to be imagined , that solomon should give young men greater liberty than the corruptest moralists did . therefore i cannot look upon these words as a permission for them to doe what is here expressed ; but as a full description of that method of living , which the jolly and voluptuous corrupters of youth would instruct them in , rejoyce , o young man , in thy youth , and let thine heart chear thee , &c. ii. we have here the most powerfull check and restraint laid upon all these sensual inclinations of youth . but know thou that for all these things god will bring thee to iudgment . which words are the wise man's correction of the foregoing liberty , or the curb which reason and religion give to the pursuit of natural inclinations , wherein every word hath its force , and ought to make a deep impression upon us : for , ( . ) know thou : thine is not then the same case with creatures that have no understanding ; they are not capable of any check from themselves , having no law of reason or conscience within them to controul or govern their sensual desires ; but god hath given thee not meerly a brutal appetite , but a rational soul , capable of understanding the differences of good and evil , and the reasons why some things which appear pleasant are very disagreeing to the principles of humane nature ; i. e. to that order , decency , modesty , and regularity , which the more elevated frame and capacity of mankind do require . ( . ) for all these things ; as light and vain as you esteem them , as soon as they are over and forgotten by you , as secretly and closely as they are committed , as much as you endeavour to palliate and excuse them , yet but for all these things god will certainly bring thee into iudgment . therefore you have all the reason in the world to consider what you doe , since every thing will be brought to judgment , whether it be good or evil , as solomon concludes this book . which shews the great regard god hath to the good or evil of our actions ; and if the great judge of the world hath so , certainly we ought to have it , and never think our selves at liberty to doe what we please , in gratifying our lusts , and pursuing our natural inclinations to evil. ( . ) god will doe it . if there were no god to call thee to an account , yet there are some actions of vertue so agreeable to mankind , and some vices so loathsome and deformed , that there would be sufficient cause for them to love the one and to abhor the other . if we could suppose such a frame of things and such sorts of beings as we now see , and no god to make them , ( which is most absurd and unreasonable , ) yet we must suppose these beings to have natures and properties distinct from each other ; so that we could not imagine men to become beasts , and therefore they must not act like them , but preserve that decorum or agreeableness in their actions which is suitable to the peculiar excellencies of humane nature . and there are some sins so much below the dignity thereof , that no circumstances , no suppositions , can make them fitting for mankind to commit them ; which shews that the nature of good and evil is no arbitrary thing , but is founded in the very frame of our beings , and in the respects we owe to our selves and to one another . and since there is an infinite and supreme being which hath absolute power and command over us , and gives us both our beings and the comforts of our lives , it is most absurd to suppose it not to be a fault to hate his goodness , or to despise his mercy ; or to slight his power , and to contemn his authority : for in all these there is something repugnant to the common sense of mankind , and to all principles of true honour and justice . and there are such common principles of morality arising from our necessary relation to god and each other , which are of so clear and convincing evidence , that every one that considers them will grant that wicked men may as well go about to dispute their beings as their sins ; and may as easily prove that they are not , but onely appear to be , as that no actions are really evil , but only by false glasses appear so to be . but however vain men may deceive themselves , god will not be mocked ; for he not onely sees and knows all our actions , but he will bring us to an account for them . ( . ) god will bring thee into iudgment . it is a dreadfull consideration to a sinner , that god knows all his false steps , all his secret sins , all his falshood and dissimulation with god and men : and there is nothing which men of art and design hate more , than to be discover'd and found out in all their double and deceitfull dealings ; but to have these not onely privately discover'd , but exposed and laid open to the view of the world ; and not onely so , but to have every circumstance examin'd , and every action scanned , and that by the great judge of all the world , whom nothing can escape , nothing can deceive , nothing can withstand ; whose justice is inflexible , whose knowledge is incomprehensible , whose power is irresistible , and whose vengeance is insupportable : this we cannot but imagine must strike an awe and terrour into the minds of men , when they are pursuing the pleasures of sin , that for all these things god will bring them into judgment . but notwithstanding these and many other expressions to the same purpose in scripture , wherein god hath declared that he will certainly iudge the world in righteousness at the great day ; that the secrets of all hearts shall then be disclosed ; that we must all appear before the iudgment-seat of christ ; and that god will render to every man according to his deeds : and notwithstanding it is a thing in it self very reasonable , from the consideration of god's justice and providence , and the nature and consequences of good and evil actions ; yet the generality of mankind go on as secure and careless as if there were no such thing , or that they ought not to be concerned about it . therefore i shall not spend time in the proof of that which i take for granted you all believe , and i am sure have reason so to doe ; but i shall enquire into these things which are most practical and therefore proper for our consideration at this time. ( . ) how a matter of so great importance as a iudgment to come makes so little impression on the minds of the generality of mankind , who profess to believe it . ( . ) by what means the consideration of a future judgment may have a greater influence on all our minds . ( . ) how a thing of so great importance as god's bringing us into iudgment comes to make so little impression on the minds of the generality of those who profess to believe it , when we are so tender and sensible of small things with respect to this world. for resolving this , we must consider , that there is a great difference between the not disbelieving doctrinal points of faith , and the practical improvement of them in our minds ; without which , they remain there but as general and confused notions . thus too many who abhor being thought atheists , live as if there were no god ; not , that they deny or dispute his being or attributes , but they have no regard to them in the last dictates of their minds , or in the course of their actions . to go about to prove such things to be true they look on as lost labour , for they do not question them ; but there is another thing then which we are to give an account of , viz. how it comes to pass , that so great and so weighty doctrines , being received and allowed to be true , make so little impression on the generality of mankind ; especially this of the day of judgment ; of which these seem to be the main reasons . ( . ) mens impatience of considering great and weighty things at a distance , which cannot affect and move our senses . ( . ) the bewitching and stupifying nature of present and sensual pleasures ; which draw off the mind from greater things , and weaken all the impressions they make upon us . ( . ) a general presumption upon god's mercy towards mankind on the account of the frailty of humane nature , notwithstanding the severity of his threatnings in scripture . ( . ) i begin with mens impatience of considering . we flatter and please our selves with the thoughts that we are intelligent and considering beings , when , it may be , considering ( especially as to matters of greatest consequence ) is one of the things which mankind have the greatest aversion to . for generally , they love to go no farther than the outsides and appearances of things , and have their minds wholly possessed with false and flattering imaginations , having neither truth nor consistency in them . and those who account themselves of better breeding than others , are often more imposed upon than others in this way . the pomp and grandeur of the world , the gaity and splendour of living strikes their fancies with such vehement impressions , that scarce any thing else gets into their minds , or sinks deep into them . there are many other things that seem to stand fair in their opinion at some times , but it is as they are thought serviceable to worldly greatness and honour . this , after all the instructions of philosophers , the declamations of heathen and christian orators , and the far more powerfull arguments of the wisest and best of men , recorded in holy scripture , is still the great idol of mankind , which they serve and worship with the truest and warmest devotion . all other things , how great and weighty soever in themselves , yet are really look'd on by them as a sort of metaphysical abstracted notions of things invisible and immaterial , quite out of the reach of their imagination , which may serve for the amusement of some , and the affrightment of others , and the entertainment of speculative minds ; but , how to raise themselves in the world , to appear great , and have many dependents ; to pursue and carry on their own interests ( though without regard to justice and honesty ) these they account great and noble things , and fit to employ their minds upon . but alas ! how much are such imposed upon by meer shews and appearances of things , which are really what god made them , but are not what we fansie them to be ! there are , no doubt , real conveniencies of life in riches , and honour , and ease , and plenty , or else they could never be esteemed blessings , nor could we have reason to thank god for them ; but there is a great difference between the fitness of things for our present use , and for our happiness ; i. e. when we make them our end , and do not employ them in order to a farther end. but it is good advice of s. paul , vsing the world as not abusing it ; for the fashion of this world passeth away : it passes like a ship under sail , while the generality of mankind , like passengers , lie asleep in it . sometimes when storms arise , or waves cross them , they seem to be awake , and to look about them , and to think whither they are going ; but those thoughts being uneasie to them , they lie down again , and are carried they know not whither . but still it is but the fashion of this world ; a meer landskip , wherein there is great variety but little satisfaction , the shew far out-doing the substance . when the devil shewed christ the kingdoms of the world , and the glory of them , the highest mountain could afford but a small prospect of them , but as some think he caused a representation in the air of the most tempting splendour and glories of them . and this was the truest representation of them , by glorious appearances and bewitching shews . but unless there be something in humane nature which makes it very apt to be deceived by such things , it were strange the devil should think to prevail on our saviour by them . we pity those who travelling in the night are deceived by false fires and shining meteors , and follow them into bogs and precipices ; but the case of such is so much worse who are deluded by the deceitfull vanities of this world to their own destruction . and can there be any greater argument of the want of consideration , than for persons to suffer themselves to be so easily and so fatally cheated ? it is a wise observation of aristotle , that true knowledge and wisedom lies most in settling and fixing the mind . for it is not the subtlety and fineness of thoughts , not the quickness and sharpness of apprehension , not the close and mathematical deductions of reason which make a wise man , but the having a calm and composed temper of mind , the subduing our passions , and governing our actions with respect to our chief end. and in order to this , consideration is absolutely necessary ; without which that which is nearest to us , and offers it self first to our choice , must prevail upon us . and here lies the main difficulty to perswade mankind to choose a far greater happiness at a distance and invisible , before a present enjoyment of things we are constantly conversant with , and have made an early impression upon us . but still we say , that it is nothing but mens impatience of considering , which makes them have so little regard to another life . for if they would but lay both worlds in the balance one against the other , they would soon discover the wonderfull folly of preferring that which this world accounts happiness before that which is offered to our choice in another . for let us make all the fair and reasonable allowances that may be , as to our inclinations , and appetites , and circumstances in this world ; as to the distance , obscurity , incomprehensibleness of the joys of another world ; yet every considering man that regards true happiness will be sure to chuse that which is to come . for , ( . ) supposing the happiness were equal , yet there is no proportion in the continuance of them ; and a considering man will be sure to choose a happiness that can never have an end , before one that may be irrecoverably lost in a moment ; and can certainly be enjoyed but for a little time , if there were any certainty at all in the enjoyment of it . ( . ) the more any have considered , the more they have repented placing too much of their happiness here , because reason and experience shews them the folly of it . but the more they have considered , the better satisfied the minds of good men are in placing their happiness above ; where alone that good is to be found which can make us truly happy , and is to be enjoyed in that fulness , that purity , that certainty which makes it fit for the wisest and most considering men to prefer above a present happiness , if it were to be enjoyed on earth . ( . ) he that looks after a future happiness doth not thereby lose any of the real conveniencies of humane life ; but he that places his happiness here , cannot find it in this world , and is sure to be miserable in another : and this makes a very considerable difference in the choice . indeed , if god made it absolutely necessary in order to future happiness for us to forgoe all the natural pleasures and innocent delights of this life , the terms would be much harder , and hardly possible to humane nature . for , if all pleasures of sense must be renounced , we must not see the pleasing varieties of nature , nor hear the melodious sound of birds , nor tast the meat when we are hungry , nor drink when we are thirsty ; for there is really greater pleasure of sense when nature craves necessary sustenance , than what the most voluptuous epicurean enjoys in all his contrivances , first to raise his appetite , and then to please it : for what is most natural and necessary is the most delightfull ; every thing of force must have something vneasie in it . but god hath not dealt thus hardly with mankind ; he allows us all the reasonable desires of nature , and hath onely forbid us what is unreasonable and unnecessary . and upon the forbearance of what is so , joyned with our entire dependence upon himself for it , ( which the scripture calls faith working by love , ) he hath made the gracious offer of eternal happiness . it is true , in extraordinary cases of persecution he requires more , but then he proposes extraordinary rewards to make abundant recompence for them ; but in the common and ordinary case of mankind , he requires no more than our avoiding those excesses in pleasing our appetites which nature and reason condemn . and those who consider , cannot but see how unreasonable it is to place their happiness in forbidden pleasures ; and to think that nothing can make them happy , but what god hath declared shall make them miserable . it is a strange crossness in our desires , if nothing can please them but what displeases god. it were no hard task to shew , that god forbids nothing but what is really repugnant to our well-being here ; and how then can any such thing as happiness be hoped for in such things ? and when a man ventures being miserable for ever , for what can never make him happy here , if he had his full liberty to pursue his desires ; he shews how far he is from acting like a wise , rational , considering being . so that impatience of considering is one great reason why the thoughts of a judgment to come make so little impression on mens minds . ( . ) the second reason is the bewitching and stupifying nature of sensual pleasures . the epicurean philosophers , who managed the theory of pleasure with the greatest art , so as it might look like a proper happiness for mankind , found two things absolutely necessary in order to it . ( . ) the retrenching all inordinate desires , viz. such as had more pain following them , than there was pleasure in the enjoyment of them . ( . ) the removing the fears of another world out of mens minds . for as long as these sunk into their minds , they must rob them of that inward tranquillity , without which it were a vain thing so much as to talk of happiness . but it was impossible , upon their grounds , to doe either of these . for , ( . ) it is unreasonable to suppose that the happiness of our present life should consist in the enjoyment of pleasure , and yet the pleasure of opinion to be taken away , since the pleasure of opinion is the far greatest part of the pleasure of life ; and that which is as much valued and esteemed by all those who place their happiness in pleasure . if it were all to be reduced to that which lies in satisfying the necessary desires of nature , then such as have just enough for that , are far more happy than the rich and voluptuous , because they have less pains and care. but if any allowance be made to the pleasure of fancy and opinion , then no stop can be given to inordinate desires . for , who can set bounds to fancy , or lay a reasonable restraint upon desires , if the differences of good and evil be taken away ? as they must be , if meer pleasure and pain be to be regarded in our actions . ( . ) as to the other , the methods they used to remove all fears of another world were weak and trifling , and they had no advantage in point of argument , but what the ignorance and folly of the idolatrous part of mankind at that time gave them . but there is a far greater advantage in point of interest , which makes men of sensual lives very willing to be rid of the fears of another life . and a willing mind goes a great way in believing or not believing . those who place their happiness in eating and drinking well ( as they call it ) and other sensual delights , which can never be enjoyed when htis life is ended , have but a melancholy prospect into another world ; for they are shut out from the very possibility of being happy in their own sense , ( unless they would believe the eastern impostour ; ) but when they once come to apprehend that there is no pleasure to make them happy but what is seated in the body , they are apt to conclude that when that dies , there is an end of all , for their imaginations can reach no farther . and the true reason is , they have laid reason and conscience asleep so long , that it is very hard to awaken them ; their notions of good and evil are like the confused apprehensions of men half awake ; they see enough to perplex but not enough to satisfie them . and when their fears grow upon them , they have not the heart and courage to examine them , whether they be reasonable or not ; but rather choose to return to their former opiates , than undergo the trouble of an effectual cure by a hearty repentance and coming to themselves , as the prodigal son in the parable did , when his hardship had brought him to consideration . we do not know what had become of him , if he had been wise and frugal in his pleasures ; if he had taken care of a good stock and a plentifull subsistence ; but he first came to be pinched with want , before he was awakened to repent . but we have in scripture a more remarkable instance of the stupifying nature of sensual pleasures ; and that was in david after his sins of adultery and murther . it is a wonder , how a man of such a tender conscience in other things , should continue so long under the guilt of these enormities , without being awakened to repentance : did he not know these to be great sins ? and did not his conscience charge him with the guilt of them ? how came he then to need a prophet to be sent to him , and to deal so plainly with him , as to tell him thou art the man ? but this is a plain evidence , how much the pleasures of sin are apt to stupifie mens consciences so far , that unless god by his grace be pleased to awaken them thoroughly , they never come to a sincere and hearty repentance . david saw nothing more as to the guilt of his sins , when he penn'd his st psalm , than his own reason and natural conscience might inform him before ; but he had quite another sense of his sins then ; his heart was broken and his soul wounded under the apprehension of god's displeasure ; and this makes him pray so earnestly and so importunately to god for the pardon of his sins . and if it were thus in the case of a man otherwise after god's own heart , i.e. afraid of offending him , and carefull to please him ; what may we imagine it to be in those who in the time of youth walk in the way of their hearts , and in the sight of their eyes : i. e. allowing themselves in all sensual inclinations , and pursuing carnal delights so far till they have lost all sense of god and another world ; and such as these , nothing but the powerfull influences of divine grace can awaken and recover . ( . ) the third reason is , a general presumption upon god's mercy . the first thing which sinners , in the heat of their youth , and pursuit of their lusts , aim at , is to think as little as may be of what they are doing , or what will be the consequence of their actions . for every thought of themselves is very uneasie to them , and every thought of god is much more so ; therefore they drive away all such thoughts by one means or other , by sleep , diversion , company , and such publick entertainments , as rather heighten and inflame their vices than correct them . if all this will not doe , but there will be some melancholy hours , wherein conscience begins to rouse it self , and to awaken the sinner to some sense of his folly ; then he is ready to hearken with pleasure to any raileries against religion and morality ; and admires the wit of any one who dares say a bold and sharp thing against the wisdom of all ages , and of the best men in them . and one or two such sayings , without proof , are cried up as far beyond the best rules of morality , or the evidence of natural and revealed religion . any sceptical disputes are sufficient demonstrations to them ; and the most unreasonable cavils against religion are embraced , because against the thing they hate ; and even a jest against the day of judgment shall signifie more with them , than the strongest arguments in the world to prove it . the true reason is , they love their vices , and hate every thing which makes them uneasie to them ; and nothing doth more so , than the thoughts of a judgment to come . but suppose after all , the terrible and frequent expressions of scripture concerning the day of judgment , joyned with the reasonableness of the thing , do make such impression on their minds that they cannot wholly shake off the fears and apprehensions of it , then their last endeavour is to mitigate and lessen them , from a general presumption of god's mercifull nature ; and therefore they are willing to suppose , that however god , to keep the world in awe , hath threatned them with the dreadfull severities of the great day , yet as a tender father who threatens his disobedient son , in order to reclaim him , with no less than disinheriting him for ever ; yet when it comes to execution he may relent , not from his sons deserts , but his own compassion ; so they hope , or believe , ( or are willing to doe so ) that god at the great day will not proceed according to the rigour which he hath threatned to use . and to comfort themselves in these hopes they find out all possible extenuations of their sins : if we , say they , had been created purely intellectual beings , free from this load of flesh , and the inclinations which are natural to it , then it had been more reasonable to have called us to a strict account for every action of our lives ; for then every inclination to evil must have come from our minds ; but now our bodies corrupt and draw them aside ; and the inclinations to evil grow faster than our reason , which should check and restrain them . and when those inclinations are strongest , men have not that judgment which is necessary to the government of unruly passions . so that the very frame of humane nature seems to plead for sins committed in the heat and violence of youth . besides , such is the strictness and purity of the law of god , and so great the weakness and disability , the ignorance and inadvertency of mankind , that if god will make no allowance for humane frailty , who can stand before his tribunal ? and , if any allowance be made for sins of infirmity , there are so many abatements to be made for sins committed through sudden passion , through mistake , through the unavoidable impotency of humane nature in this degenerate condition , that the severity of that day is not much to be feared . this is the utmost of the sinners plea against the severity of the day of judgment ; but , to shew how faulty it is , i shall offer these considerations ; . that god will certainly iudge the world in righteousness ; and therefore none shall have cause to complain of the harshness or severity of his proceedings . for , this righteousness is not the rigour of justice , but that equity which hath a regard to the circumstances of actions , and the abatement and extenuation of faults which arise from them . . none shall suffer at that day , but for their wilfull impenitency , and obstinate continuance in sin. for , this is not onely agreeable to the mercifull nature of god , to forgive repenting sinners ; but it is one of the great designs of the gospel to assure mankind of it by the highest testimonies , even by the death and resurrection of the son of god , and all the miracles wrought in confirmation of it , and of the truth of his doctrine . . there are several degrees of wilfulness and obstinacy , and mens judgment shall be according to them . some mens capacities , opportunities and helps have very much exceeded others ; some have broken through stronger convictions and more powerfull assistences of grace than others ; some have had more early instructions , more frequent warnings , more obliging favours from heaven than others . and as it is reasonable that persons suffer for their obstinate continuance in sin , so that they should suffer according to the degrees and circumstances of it . ( . ) it is not unjust severity in god , to deprive men of that happiness which they have wilfully refused ; and to condemn them to that misery which their sins have deserved . hath not god made the most condescending offer of mercy and salvation , that it is possible for creatures to expect from him , after so many and great provocations ? could heaven stoop lower than it hath done to vile and ungratefull sinners ? when the son of god came down from heaven on purpose to reconcile god and man together ; when the spirit of god warns and excites their minds to the consideration of their eternal welfare ; when the messengers of this reconciliation are to woo and intreat and beseech sinners in christ's stead , as though god did beseech them by them , that they would be reconciled to god ; when the patience and goodness and long-suffering of god is exercised so much on purpose to lead them to repentance ; when god instead of perfect obedience , is willing to pardon and pass by so many offences , if they truly repent of them , and to receive them still into his favour and mercy ; when after all this men do rather prefer the present pleasures of sin , before all that happiness which god so freely offers , is it any injustice in him to suffer them for ever to be deprived of that which they so wilfully , so ungratefully , so obstinately refused ? and supposing the souls of men to subsist in another world free from all those clouds of errour and mistake , and the false notions they are deceived by here , as well as all the diversions and pleasures of this life , it is not to be imagined , but they must for-ever suffer an intolerable anguish within ( called , a worm that never dyes , and a fire that never goes out , ) from the reflexions upon their own folly. what vengeance beyond this god may inflict , we now know not , ( may none of us ever know it ! ) but we are sure it will never exceed the proportion and desert of their sins . which is sufficient to clear the justice of god in his proceedings with mankind in the day of judgment . . it remains now onely to shew by what means god's bringing us to judgment may make a deeper impression upon our minds ; by considering th●se two things ; . that our not considering it will not make our condition b●tter , but much worse . . that our considering it is the best means to prevent the evil consequences of it . ( . ) our not considering it will not make our condition better . there were great reason indeed to walk in the way of our hearts , and in the sight of our eyes , and never trouble our selves with what will happen at the great day , if the putting it out of our heads would make our accounts the easier when it comes . but alas ! whether we think of it or no , the account runs on , and we must answer to every particular at last ; and how unprovided shall we be , if we spend no time here in examining , stating and clearing of them as far as we are able . it is a mighty priviledge we have by the gospel , that god allows us to clear our accounts with him in this world ; for , if we would judge our selves we shall not be judged : i.e. if we call our selves to a strict account for our actions ; if we repent heartily and sincerely of our sins ; if we seek earnestly to god for mercy ; if we have our consciences cleansed by the blood of christ from the pollution of our sins , then we may with joy and peace in our minds think of the great day of recompence . but if we never enter into our selves , to search and examine our own actions , never look into the habits of our own minds , nor charge our selves with the guilt of the sins we have committed , how can we ever hope to escape the scrutiny or avoid the severity of that day ? for our account continually increases by our neglect of it , and the burden of god's wrath must be so much heavier when we have taken no care to lessen it , but after our hardness and impenitent hearts have onely treasured up wrath against the day of wrath . ( . ) our considering that god will bring us to judgment is the best means to prevent the evil consequences of it . for , although we cannot hope to plead innocency ; yet , ( which is next in point of wisdom ) this is the most effectual motive to bring us to repentance : and that which makes us repent makes us to grow wise in time , and to lay a good foundation for eternal life . there are many arguments to induce us to it in the folly and shame of our sins ; the wisdom of reflection and reformation ; the instances of it and exhortations to it recorded in scripture ; but there is none more sensible and which touches men more in point of interest and concernment than this of a iudgment to come . must i then , saith a penitent sinner , give a strict account to god of all the evil actions of my life , and suffer according to the desert of them if i die in impenitency ? how much doth it then concern me to repent betimes , to repent in good earnest , to repent while there is hopes of mercy ! away then all ye deceitfull vanities of this wicked world , ye have too long deceived and seduced me : what will all this vain shew , this busie seducer , this impertinent outside of the world signifie , when i must be stript of all , and stand guilty and accused by my own conscience before the judgment-seat of christ ? oh! how wretched shall i be , if my conscience condemns me before the sentence of the judge ! therefore , i am resolved to prevent the judgment of that day ; i will accuse , judge , and condemn my self ; nay , i will proceed to execution , as to all the vitious habits and corrupt inclinations within me . and although i cannot wholly mortifie them , yet i will crucifie them ; i. e. nail them to the cross , and allow them no longer liberty ; and albeit they may struggle for a time , yet i will never give way to their dominion over me any more ; that so death and judgment may find me prepared , if not with unspotted innocency , yet with hearty and sincere repentance . to conclude all ; let the consideration of this day of iudgment to come enter deep into our minds , and awaken us out of our lethargy and security . we are very apt to put off unpleasing things from time to time , and to pass away our time here as easily as may be . but this is no part of wisdom , and we shall extremely blame our selves for it one time or other . the best we can do now , is to recover what is past by repentance , and to set our selves to the making up our accounts with god in this world : for , we are all walking on the brink of eternity , and know not how soon we may drop into it . but what eternal horrour and confusion must follow us , if we go on to slight the opportunities he still affords us of making our peace with him who is to be our judge ? may god therefore of his mercy awaken us all to a timely and serious repentance , and then our iniquities shall not be our ruine . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e ch. . . ch. . . ch. . . v. . v. , , , . v. . v. . ch. . . ch. . . ch. . . ch. . , . ch. . . act. . . rom. . . cor. . rom. . . cor. . . matt. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . nat. ausc. l. . c. . n. . gal. . . luke . . sam. . . acts . . mark . . cor. . . rom. . . thirteen sermons preached on several occasions three of which never before printed / by the right reverend father in god edward, lord bishop of worcester. sermons. selections stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) thirteen sermons preached on several occasions three of which never before printed / by the right reverend father in god edward, lord bishop of worcester. sermons. selections stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], , [ ] p. : port. printed by j.h. for henry mortlock ..., london : . errata: p. [ ]. advertisements ([ ] p.) at end. reproduction of original in bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the right reverend edw. stillingfleet d. d. lord bishop of worcester . thirteen sermons preached on several occasions . three of which never before printed . by the right reverend father in god edward lord bishop of worcester . the third volume . london , printed by j. h. for henry mortlock , at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , . the contents . sermon i. st . luk. xv. . i will arise and go to my father , and will say to him , father , i have sinned against heaven and before thee . pag. sermon ii. coloss. ii. . as ye have therefore received christ jesus the lord , so walk ye in him . p. sermon iii. pet. iv. . and if the righteous scarcely be saved , where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear . p. sermon iv. eccles. xi . . rejoyce , o young man , in thy youth , and let thy heart chear thee in the days of thy youth , and walk in the ways of thy heart , and in the sight of thine eyes ; but know thou , that for all these things god will bring thee into judgment . p. sermon v. tim. i. . for god hath not given us the spirit of fear , but of power , and of love , and of a sound mind . p. sermon vi. tim. i. . this is a faithful saying , and worthy of all acceptation , that christ jesus came into the world to save sinners , of whom i am chief . p. sermon vii . st. luk. vi. . and why call ye me lord , lord , and do not the things which i say ? p. sermon viii . rom. viii . . for , to be carnally minded is death ; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace . p. sermon ix . st. john iii. . for god sent not his son into the world to condemn the world ; but that the world through him might be saved . p. sermon x. st. jam. iv. . therefore to him that knoweth to do good , and doth it not , to him it is sin. p. sermon xi . st. matth. xxvi . . watch and pray that ye enter not into temptation ; the spirit indeed is willing , but the flesh is weak . p. sermon xii . acts xxvi . . why should it be thought a thing incredible with you , that god should raise the dead ? p. sermon . xiii . eccles. vii . . be not righteous overmuch , neither make thy self over wise : why shouldst thou destroy thy self ? p. errata . page . line . for these read there . p. . l. . dele from yet to l. st . p. . l. st . for or r. we . p. . l. . for lord , r. law. p. . l. . put out ● . p. . l. . dele little . p. . l. . for heatedness , r. heartedness . p. . l. . for weakness , r. willingness . p. . l. . for truce r. time. p. . l. st . before of , put in out . p. . l. . for sea , r. sun. p. . l. . for laws r. lives . p. . l. . after now , put apt . p. . sermon . in the text , for lover , r. over . p. . l. . before to , put in ( . ) p. . l. . before known , insert have . p. . l. . blot out that . p. . l. . for gain , r. again . p. . l. st . for this , r. thus. p. . l. . for indanger , r. indulge p. . l. . for molochi r. moloch . p. . l. . for exasperate r. extenuate . p. . l. . for solitude , r. solicitude . sermon i. preached at white-hall , february the th , / ; . st. luke xv. . i will arise and go to my father , and will say to him , father , i have sinned against heaven and before thee . in the foregoing verse , we find the prodigal son so far awakened and come to himself , as to be sensible of the miserable condition he had brought himself into by his own folly and wickedness . but , before he came to this , there is a remarkable turn in the course of his life , set down by our saviour in the beginning of this excellent parable . for , he was first very impatient of being under the wise conduct of his father , and thought he could manage his own affairs far more to his contentment and satisfaction , if he were but permitted to use his liberty , and were not so strictly tyed up to the grave and formal methods of living , observed and required in his father's house . which might pass for wisdom in age , and be agreeable enough to such whose life and vigour were decayed ; and who were now to maintain their authority over their children by seeming to be so much wiser than they : but it is a rare thing for youth and age to agree in the opinion of wisdom : for it is not the care , the experience , the judgment of a wise and tender father , that can allay the heats , or calm the passions , or over-rule the violent inclinations of youth ; but whatever it cost them afterwards , some will be still trying the experiment , whether it doth not more conduce to the happiness of life to pursue their own fancies and designs , than to hearken to another's directions ( though a father's ) whose circumstances are so much different from their own . thus our blessed saviour represents in the parable this young prodigal , as weary of being rich and easie at home , and fond of seeing the pleasures of the world : and therefore nothing would satisfie him unless he were intrusted with the stock which was intended for him , that he might shew the difference between his father's conduct and his own . and this very soon appear'd ; for this hopefull manager had not been long abroad , but he wasted his substance with riotous living . and to make him the more sensible of his folly , there happened a more than ordinary scarcity , which made his low and exhausted condition more uneasie to him . but the sense of shame was yet greater with him than that of his ●olly ; and whatever shifts he underwent , he would by no means yet think of returning home ; but rather chose to submit to the meanest and basest employment in hopes to avoid the necessity of it . but at last , reason and consideration began to work upon him , which is called , his coming to himself : and then he takes up a resolution to go home to his father , and to throw himself at his feet , to confess his fault ingenuously and freely , and to beg pardon for his former folly , in hopes of forgiveness and reconciliation . i will arise and go to my father , and say to him , father , i have sinned against heaven , and before thee . under this parable , our saviour sets forth the state of a sinner , ( . ) in his wilfull degeneracy from god , his father , both by creation and providence ; his uneasiness under his just and holy laws ; his impatience of being restrained by them ; his casting off the bonds of duty to him ; and running into all kind of disorders without regard to god , or his own soul. ( . ) in the dissatisfaction he found in his evil courses ; being very much disappointed in the great expectations he had in the pleasures of sin ; wasting his health , interest , reputation , estate , and above all , the peace and tranquillity of his mind , which was more valuable than any other delight whatsoever , and he now found impossible to be enjoy'd in a course of rebellion against his heavenly father . ( . ) in the conviction of his folly upon due consideration of what he had done ; which is emphatically called coming to himself ; having before acted so much below himself , and against himself ; unworthy of the relation he stands in to god ; of those faculties he had bestow'd upon him ; and of those hopes and expectations he might have had from him either as to this or another world. ( . ) in the resolution he takes upon this conviction , no longer to delay his purpose of repenting and returning home , but to embrace the present opportunity of doing it freely , heartily and ingenuously , i will arise and go to my father , &c. having formerly in this place , and on a like occasion considered the prodigal son 's coming to himself , i shall now pursue the method of his repentance in the resolution he here takes to arise and go to his father , &c. and therein i shall enquire into these things . i. what grounds a sinner hath to incourage him to repent ; or to form such a resolution in his mind that he will arise and go to his father , when he knows he hath so much provoked and offended him . ii. how necessary it is in order to true repentance to form a fixed and steady resolution to go through with it , i will arise and go , &c. first , what grounds a sinner hath to incourage him to repent ; or to make application to his father in order to forgiveness , since he is convinced he hath so justly offended him . for , if we consider the circumstances here mention'd , he had no such reason to hope to be receiv'd into favour upon such easie terms , as are here expressed ; for , ( . ) he had wilfully forsaken his father's house , without any just cause of complaint of any hard usage there . ( . ) he had embraced such a course of life , which he knew was displeasing to him , living riotously and disorderly , in a way contrary to his will. ( . ) he never thought of returning home , till mere necessity forced him ; till hunger and poverty made him come to himself . and what could be more disobliging to a father , than such circumstances as these ? ( . ) his father never forced him from home , nor made his condition uneasie there . our saviour here represents almighty god , as dealing with mankind like a tender and indulgent father , and not like a severe and hard master ; his laws being intended for our good , and not for his own advantage . there is no duty of ours towards god , or our selves , or others , but is founded on this relation to god as a father to mankind . nothing can be more reasonable in general than that the father should order and direct his children , and give such rules which are fitting for them to observe ; and if we examine the particular laws of nature , or the dictates of reason as to good and evil , we shall find them very agreeable to god's paternal government . what is the duty of prayer to god , but asking daily blessing of our heavenly father ? what is our thanksgiving , but a solemn owning his paternal care and bounty towards us ? and in these two , the main duties of natural religion consist . the neglect whereof , is such a disrespect to our heavenly father , as is not consistent with our believing him to be so . for , as god himself argues in the prophet , a son honoureth his father , and a servant his master : if then i be a father , where is mine honour ? and if i be a master , where is my fear ? god was a father by the right of creation and providence : but he was a master to the jews in respect of the bondage of the law ; and as there was a spirit of bondage on that account in them , which inclined them to a more servile fear ; so there ought to have been a natural spirit of adoption toward god as their supreme creatour and father ; which should excite all men to such a dutifull love , such a reverential esteem , such a mixture of awe and kindness as is in children towards their parents . yea , it ought to be much greater than that can be supposed ; because the distance is infinite between god and us ; and our dependence more immediate and necessary ; and there is in him a concurrence of all perfections , which may cause in us the highest esteem , and the humblest adoration . there is an unquestionable duty owing by children to their earthly parents , but how much rather ( saith the apostle ) ought we to be in subjection to the father of spirits ? the fathers of our flesh may be very kind , but not wise in their love ; or wise and not so kind ; or they may be both wise and kind , but not able to help their children . they may love and pity , and pray for them , when they are in misery , or sickness and pain , but after all , they are unable to relieve them ; for the most indulgent father , when his bowels yearn , and his heart is ready to break at the sight of a child lying under the agonies of death , is not able to give a moments respite to the terrible pangs , which he can neither behold nor abate . but our heavenly father hath not only infinite wisdom , but infinite kindness and power ; and where all these are joined together , what honour , what love , what fear is due unto him ! although there be defects in their parents , yet children are still bound to obey them , and to shew a mighty regard and reverence towards them ; but here it is so much otherwise , that if we could conceive our selves without this relation to god , yet his perfections are so many , so great , so infinite , as to deserve and require our utmost veneration . the prodigal son could then have no reason to complain of the duty which he owed to his father . and was it not fit for him to appoint the orders of his family , and to expect that his children should behave themselves therein , as became the relation they stood in to himself and to one another ? that they should have a decent regard to themselves in sobriety , temperance , command of their passions , and care of their words ; that they should behave themselves towards their brethren with sincerity , kindness and justice ; which comprehend all the duties we owe to one another ? and what now was there in all this , that the prodigal could have any cause to complain of , or that should make his father's house so uneasie to him ? but his father had just cause to be provoked , when his wise counsels , and prudent care , and constant kindness , and righteous government were so much slighted and despised by a disobedient and ungratefull son ; who had so little sense of his duty or his interest as to be weary of being so well at home , and therefore impatiently desiring to find out new methods of living well , as he then thought , when the best orders of his father's family were become so displeasing to him . ( . ) but what were these new and fine contrivances for his own happiness ? he began to suspect his wise father did not allow his children liberty enough at home , and that he concealed from him the great mystery of the happiness of life , and therefore concluded , that if he did give way to those desires which he found to be natural , but his father thought unreasonable , he should enjoy much more pleasure and satisfaction than he did at home . and being resolved upon this , he gives way to those inclinations he found strongest in himself , denies himself no pleasures of life , accounts vertue but a name which sowre and morose persons put upon their own humours ; and religion but a device for fools to deceive themselves , and knaves to deceive others by . and so he throws off all checks and restraints upon himself , and never regards the good or evil of what he doth , for his lusts are his laws , and the satisfaction of them he now looks upon as the only real happiness of mankind . and could any thing be supposed more provoking to his heavenly father than such a wicked and dissolute way of living ? so contrary to his father's will , to his own reason , conscience , interest , reputation ; and which soon brought him to shame and misery ? ( . ) but that which added yet more to the height of the provocation was , that he did not think of returning home to his father , upon the first apprehension of his own folly ; but he resolved to undergo any difficulty , and submit to any hardship , rather than do what was necessary in order to reconciliation with his father . how hard a matter then is it to bring an habitual sinner to repentance ! it is not easie to bring him to any due and serious conviction of the evil of his doings ; but it is far more difficult to change the inward disposition of the mind , and to alter all the great designs and pleasures of life . it is but a mean notion of repentance which is apt to prevail in the world , as though it implied no more than some acts of contrition for greater sins , when the habit and disposition remain the same . but true repentance is the turn of the whole soul from the love , as well as the practice of sin ; and this is not a thing to be done easily or suddenly ; a sinner will bear a great many checks and reproofs of conscience before he will part with his beloved sins ; he will struggle a great while with himself ; and endure many conflicts between an awaken'd conscience and rooted inclinations , before the penitent sinner can assure himself that his repentance hath had its due and effectual operation upon him . for we see here nothing but extremity brought the prodigal to himself , and made him at last to resolve to arise and go to his father , &c. as themistocles said of the people of athens , they did by him , as men commonly do by a great tree , they run to it for shelter in a storm , but care not how they use it another time ; that is too true of sinners with respect to god ; when they can make a shift for themselves any other way , they despise religion ; and make god their refuge only at a day of extremity , but not their choice , when their conditions please them . but when the prodigal son had so slighted his father , broken his commands , despised the advantages he had at home , and was so hardly brought to think of returning thither , how came he now to be so incouraged in his mind to arise and go to his father , and confess his fault with hopes of being forgiven after all this ? we find no other account here given , but that he was his father , however he had offended him ; and therefore he was resolved he would arise and go to his father ; as though there were charms and force enough in that word to answer all discouragements . which being an argument taken from the bowels of pity and compassion which a father hath towards a relenting child , we must enquire , how far this will hold with respect to god , who is so infinitely above all the fond passions of humane nature , that it is a diminution to his glory and majesty to be thought like to mankind ; and therefore his thoughts and ways are said to be as far above ours as the heavens are above the earth ? to clear this , we are to consider , not only that our blessed saviour doth here lay the force and weight of the parable upon the tenderness of a father to his son ; but that he elsewhere argues from it in such a manner as to convince us that god hath far greater pity and compassion towards mankind when they make due applications to him , than fathers can have towards their children even when they ask for necessary sustenance . what man is there of you , whom if his son ask bread , will he give him a stone ? or , if he ask a fish , will he give him a serpent ? if ye then being evil know how to give good gifts unto your children , how much more shall your father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him ? there have been philosophers so severe against the passions of humane nature , that they would not allow any pity or commiseration towards others , whatever their condition or relation were , but only acting according to reason in supplying their wants . but the christian religion doth far more reasonably allow such passions in mankind as dispose them to do good to others , by fixing such an impression on their minds of others misery as doth excite them to do what is fitting for their ease and support . and compassion is not , as some imagine , such a mean and selfish passion , as doth arise only from the apprehension that we may suffer the same things our selves , which we pity others for ; but it is a generous sense of what others feel , joined with a readiness to help them according to our power . and in this sense , our saviour not only allows it in fathers towards children , but looks on it as necessary in humane nature in order to the good and advantage of mankind ; and therefore himself taking our nature upon him is said to be touched with the feeling of our infirmities ; and to have compassion on the ignorant , and on them that are out of the way . but although this be allowable in humane nature , how can such a thing as compassion be attributed to the divine nature which is uncapable of such impressions and motions , which we are subject to ? and yet the scripture is very full and clear in attributing pity and compassion to almighty god with respect to his creatures . the psalmist saith , the lord is full of compassion and mercy ; long-suffering , and of great goodness . st. james saith , he is very pitifull , and of tender mercy . and in that wonderfull appearance to moses , when god himself declared his own attributes , the greatest part consists of his kindness and mercy towards mankind ; the lord god , mercifull and gracious , long-suffering , and abundant in goodness and truth , keeping mercy for thousands , forgiving iniquity , transgression and sin. and the psalmist useth the very same similitude of a father's pity to his children , like as a father pitieth his children , so the lord pitieth them that fear him . and when the prophet speaks of god's thoughts and ways being so much above man's , it is for this end to prove thereby that god may shew more pity to mankind , than they find in their hearts to shew to one another . let him return unto the lord , and he will have mercy upon him ; and to our god , for he will abundantly pardon ; for my thoughts are not your thoughts , &c. but setting aside all this , the whole scheme of the gospel is drawn upon the supposition of god's pity and compassion towards penitent sinners ; which is the reason our saviour insists so much on the proof of it in this whole chapter . wherein we not only read of joy in heaven at the repentance of a sinner ; but the compassion of god almighty towards a penitent sinner is set forth with all the tenderness of an indulgent father running into the embraces of his son , when he saw him at a distance coming towards him . what now is the meaning of all this ? are we to conceive of god as one like to our selves , who either do not see faults in those we love ; or do not hate them , as we should do ; or are too apt to pass them over ; or are at first , it may be , apt to be angry upon a slight provocation , and then as easily made friends upon as little reason as we were made angry ? but none of these things ought to enter into our minds concerning god with respect to the follies of mankind . and in this case , if we will form in our minds right and true conceptions of the divine nature ( as we ought to do ) we must have a great care lest we attribute any thing to god , which looks like weakness and imperfection , as the motions and changes of passions do ; therefore to understand his pity and compassion , and reconciliation to penitent sinners , we must first know what his anger and displeasure against sinners mean. some think that epicurus did in earnest believe a god , but he was therefore forced to deny providence , because he could not conceive that the government of the world could be managed without such resentments as were inconsistent with the complete happiness of the divine being ; and therefore he rather chose to make him careless and easie , than active and liable to passion . the stoicks attributed to god all that was good and kind and obliging ; but would by no means endure that ever he should be said to be angry or displeased ; which doctrine did in effect overthrow providence with respect to moral actions , as much as the epicureans . for if god did not regard the difference of men's actions , but was equally kind to them whether they did good or evil , such a providence would have as little influence on men's lives as if there were none at all . we must then suppose , if we would uphold religion and morality in the world , not only that there is a providence , but that god hath a different regard to men according to the good or evil of their actions . the regard he hath to men for being good and doing good is called his love , his kindness , his good-will , his grace and favour ; that which he hath to things that are evil is called his hatred ; that which he hath to persons for doing evil is his anger , wrath , displeasure , indignation ; according to the different nature and circumstances of their evil actions . but in order to the preventing any false or mean apprehensions of the divine nature , when the passions of mankind are attributed to it , we must consider these two things ; ( . ) that we must by no means attribute to god any thing that is unreasonable in our selves ; such are all irregular motions , which we call violent passions , arising from surprize , mistake , inadvertency , weakness , or corrupt inclination . but setting all these aside , the original passions of mankind , which are agreeable to reason , are no other than what arise from an inclination to what we judge to be good , and an aversion from what we apprehend to be evil ; which holds as to the divine nature . ( . ) that there is an observable difference in the very nature of some passions , which imply a repugnancy in themselves to the divine perfections , which others do not . for love and kindness , and joy , and inward satisfaction have nothing in them supposing their object good , but what agrees with the divine nature ; but the passions contrary to these , as envy , ●ll-will and revenge are not only repugnant as passions , but in their own nature ; for god cannot envy the good of his creatures , nor bear ill-will to them as such , nor take pleasure in their torments . and of this nature anger properly taken is , as it doth imply a present disorder and disturbance within , from the apprehension of some injury done or intended , with a desire of revenge on those who do it ; all which is inconsistent with the necessary perfections of god ; for they argue meanness , imperfection and mutability . we must therefore fix on such a notion of anger as becomes the almighty wisdom and goodness ; and that lies in , ( . ) a displeasure against the sinner on the account of his sins ; for god cannot have any complacency in those who displease him as all sinners do , whether they design it or not . ( . ) a will to punish sinners according to their demerits ; which being according to the rules of wisdom and righteous government , cannot be said to argue an indecent passion . ( . ) the actual execution of his justice upon great provocations . and so god is said to be angry when he punishes ; especially when he doth it suddenly and severely ; as men in their passion are wont to do . but whatever god doth in this kind , he doth it with the wisdom and temper of a judge , and not with the fury or passion of an angry being . and there is nothing in all this unbecoming the divine nature , but very agreeable thereto . and this is all which in strictness of reason is understood by god's being angry with mankind . for we must never imagine that god acts according to sudden heats and passions ; but whatever he doth is according to the counsels of infinite wisdom and goodness . i do not deny that the scripture doth represent anger in god as if it were a passion raised upon great provocation , and capable of being laid by submission and true repentance . thence we read , of god's wrath waxing hot , of his anger kindling against his people , and his turning away from his fierce anger , and many such expressions ; but so we read of the fire of his indignation , the sword of his wrath , the stretching forth of his hand ; which all grant are not to be literally understood . if then in these expressions , the perfections of the divine nature are to be our rule , according to which we must interpret them , because the literal sence implies an incongruity to the divine perfections which are all wholly spiritual ; then from the same r●ason we must remove all perturbations from it which are as inconsistent with the absolute perfection of it , as eyes and ears and hands and feet are , although they are all mention'd in scripture . from whence we justly inferr , that there is a wonderfull condescention to the ordinary capacities and common apprehensions of mankind in the language of scripture , concerning the divine nature , which makes deeper impressions on meaner understandings , and those who are of finer thoughts will see cause to attribute only such a sense of things relating to god , as is consistent with his infinite and divine perfections . but what now shall we say to this tenderness and compassion of god towards penitent sinners ? can he be moved by our trouble and sorrow and acts of contrition for our sins ? if we be righteous what doth it profit the almighty ? and if we be evil , how can it hurt him ? and if when we have sinned , we repent , we do no more than is fitting for us ; but why should we imagine the great and wise god should have compassion upon us , when we become sensible of our own folly ? for when we sin against god , wilfully , deliberately , knowingly , habitually , we do what lies in us to provoke him to wrath and indignation against us ; we reject his wise government , we slight his righteous laws , we preferr the pleasing our corrupt inclinations and sensual lusts before our heavenly father . and what can be more provoking to him than to be so despised by one who had his being and all the comforts of life from him ? suppose now such a disobedient , rebellious son , as here in the parable , be made sensible of his folly , is his father bound to receive him ? was it not his own choice to go from him ? if he hath suffered by his folly , he may thank himself for it ; and if his father lets him alone in it , he hath no cause to complain . but such was the tenderness of the father towards his repenting son , that he shew'd the greatest compassion imaginable ; for he did not stay at home expecting his son 's solemn submission before his family , but he ran towards him , and fell upon his neck , and kissed him . what conceptions now ought we to have of god's compassion towards penitent sinners answerable to all this ? this i shall endeavour to clear in these particulars . ( . ) that god's hatred is not primarily against persons who are his creatures ; but against that which is evil , which is none of his making ; and against persons only so far as they are corrupted with evil. thou lovest righteousness , and hatest wickedness , faith the psalmist . god hates nothing for its own sake , but sin ; and for the sake of that he hates all workers of iniquity . ( . ) there may be good-will towards the person of a sinner at the same time when god discovers the hatred of his sins . i do not say , god takes any pleasure in him while he goes on in sin , for that is against the eternal rules of righteousness in god ; but that he may have so much good-will towards him , as to design to reduce him from his evil ways . and this every father finds in himself towards a disobedient son ; while he hates his evil courses , yet he would make use of the best methods to bring him to himself , and to his duty . and upon this is grounded that love and kindness of god towards mankind , in sending his son to be our saviour , and all the promises and invitations which are made to sinners in the doctrine of the gospel . ( . ) it is very agreeable to infinite wisdom and goodness for god to shew himself full of pity and compassion towards penitent sinners , i. e. so as to forgive them their former sins , and to receive them into his favour . for pity and compassion in god is to be judged , not according to the inward motions we find in our selves , but according to these two things . ( . ) a readiness to do good to his creatures according to their necessities . which being in general , is his bounty and goodness ; but considered with respect to the persons of sinners , it is his clemency , or readiness to forgive ; and with respect to the punishment they deserve by their sins , it is his mercy and pity : which in us is aegritudo ex miseri● alterius , and therefore called misericordia , because the heart is touched with the sense of another's misery ; but we are not so to apprehend it in god ; but that such is the goodness of god towards repenting sinners , that he is as willing to shew mercy as they are to repent . ( . ) god's pity and compassion lies in the proper effects of it ; which here in the case of the prodigal were , passing by his former extravagances , and receiving him into as much favour as if he had not gone astray . this my son was dead , and is alive again ; was lost , and is found . those who think , they stand not in need of so much pardoning mercy as others do , are apt to repine at the favour shew'd to great sinners when they repent ; and therefore the elder brother could not bear the expressing so much kindness towards such a disobedient son , though now a penitent . but that there is nothing disagreeing to infinite wisdom and goodness in such compassion towards penitent sinners , will more fully appear , if we consider , ( . ) that god is not bound to deal with sinners according to the utmost rigour and severity of his justice . because he is under no fatal necessity ; no superiour law ; and therefore may act freely in the forgiving offenders as seems best to his infinite wisdom . the whole race of mankind is a perpetual evidence that god doth not act according to the strictness of his justice , for if he had dealt with them after their sins , or rewarded them according to their iniquities ; their spirits would have failed before him , and the souls which he had made ; they had been long since destroy'd from the face of the earth , and not suffer'd to continue in their provocations . but god hath not only forborn sinners long when he might justly have punished them ; but he gives them many real blessings and comforts of life , freely and bountifully . now if god deal so mercifully with sinners while they continue such , is there not greater reason to suppose he will be far more so , when they cease to be such ? ( . ) a penitent sinner doth what in him lies to vindicate god's honour . i do not say , he can make satisfaction to divine justice ; for that is impossible for him to do ; and god hath provided for that by his own son , whom he hath made a propitiation for the sins of the world. but a true penitent takes all the shame and dishonour to himself ; he clears the justice of god's government , and the equity of his laws , and owns himself guilty of unspeakable folly in his disobedience . o how justly , saith he , might god have taken me away in the midst of my sins , when my conscience checked me for my sins , and yet i had no heart to repent of them ! when i could not but see my danger , and yet was unwilling to come out of it . i can never be sufficiently thankfull for so great a mercy as his bringing me to my self hath been ; i had gone on in the same secure , stupid , senseless condition , that others lie in , if he had not throughly awaken'd me , and roused me out of my impenitent state. how dreadfull had my condition for ever been , if my first awakening had been in the flames of hell ? nothing but infinite goodness and patience would have waited so long for the repentance of such an offender as i have been . i have sinned so often , that i am ashamed to think of the number of my transgressions ; so deeply , that i am confounded at the thoughts of them ; so foolishly , that i am unworthy to be called thy son , who have acted so unlike thy children ( so the prodigal son here speaks to his father . ) and if thou wouldst admit me but to the meanest condition of thy servants , i shall ever esteem it as the greatest privilege of my life , and endeavour to serve thee for the future tho' in the lowest capacity . thus the repenting prodigal goes on , v . and in a suitable manner every true penitent behaves himself towards god with great humility , and a deep sense of his own unworthiness ; and is thereby rendred more capable of divine favour . for god re●steth the proud , but giveth grace to the humble . and therefore it is very agreeable to infinite wisdom and goodness to shew pity towards a truly humble and penitent sinner ; for a broken and contrite heart he will not despise . ( . ) if god were not so full of compassion to penitent sinners , there would have been no incouragement for sinners to repent ; but they must have sunk into everlasting despair . for if god should forgive none that sin , then all mankind must be condemned to eternal misery ; for all have sinned ; and there is not a just man upon earth who sinneth not ; and so the best and worst , and all forts of sinners must here suffer together ; which would have taken away all the notion of any such thing as mercy and clemency in god towards mankind . but if we set bounds to it as to some particular kinds and degrees of sinning ; we limit that which is infinite ; we determine what we know not , viz. how far god's mercy doth extend ; we destroy the power of divine grace in changing and reforming the worst of men. but the scriture hath recorded some remarkable instances of great sinners , who have been great penitents , and upon that have been pardon'd ( such as manasses , and some others ) that no penitent sinner might be discouraged in the work of repentance . for a true penitent searching to the bottom , and setting all his sins before him , with their several aggravations , can be kept from despair by nothing less than the infinite mercy of god to those who truly repent . ( . ) because there is nothing so provoking in sin , as obstinate impenitency , and continuance in it . it is true , god hates all sin for its own sake ; but not all equally ; some sins being of a higher nature than others are ; being against plainer light , stronger convictions , more easie commands , stricter obligations than others are ; but yet it is the temper of a sinner's mind , which is most provoking , when sins are committed , not through infirmity , or sudden surprize , or a violent temptation ; but habitually , knowingly , wilfully ; especially when they are done in contempt of god and his laws , and with an obstinate resolution to continue in the practice of them . this is so provoking to god , that the chief reason of the severe punishments of sinners in another world is taken from thence ; because god hates obstinate and impenitent sinners . and thus he will by no means acquit the guilty . there is a sin unto death , saith st. john , and there is a sin not unto death . there is a sin unto death , which christ hath said he will never pardon ; and that is blasphemy against the holy ghost ; a sin which none who do truly own christianity , are capable of committing . but is there then no sin unto death to them ? yes , it is possible for men who have clear convictions in their minds of the truth of the gospel , to act so plainly , and wilfully , and directly against it , as either to provoke god to take them away by an extraordinary judgment , and so it is properly a sin unto death ; or to withdraw his grace from them , and leave them to the hardness of their own hearts , and so it becomes a sin unto a spiritual death . but besides these cases ; every wilfull sinner who adds impenitency to his sin , commits the sin unto death ; because there is no other condition of pardon allow'd by the gospel without true repentance . how infinite is the goodness of god that excludes no sinners from the hopes of pardon who have a heart to repent sin●erely of their sins ! and how just is god in the final punishment of those sinners , who still go on in their sins , and refuse to repent ; after all the invitations and incouragements which are given them to that end ! can we in reason suppose that god should stoop lower towards sinners , than to offer them pardon of former sins , if they do repent ; and to tell them they must expect no mercy in another world if they do not repent ? but suppose we are come thus far , that we are convinced we must repent , what course and method must we take in order to it ? of this briefly , and so to conclude . secondly , i know no better than to follow the example of the prodigal son here : and in the first place to form a present , sincere , fixed and peremptory resolution of do●ng it ; i will arise and go to my father , &c. if we suffer convictions to cool upon our minds , the force and spirit of them will soon be gone . it hath been of late observed by the strictest enquirers into nature , that the beginnings of life are very small , and hardly discernible . it is but as a spark that appears , and may easily be exstinguished ; but if it be incouraged by a continual heat , a wonderfull alteration soon follows , and the distinct parts begin to be formed ; the first which is discerned is the eye , but the fountain of life is in the heart ; and when the course of the bloud is there setled , the other parts come to their due formation with greater quickness . this may be a representation of the first beginnings of spiritual life , that which answers to the eye is the conviction of the mind , where the inward change first appears ; that which answers to the heart is resolution , and when that is fixed , a mighty reformation will soon follow . but spiritual life as well as natural is in its first beginnings a very nice and tender thing , it may be easily stopt , and very hardly recovered : it is therefore of very great concernment to keep up the warmth of our first resolutions , and to improve them into a present practice agreeable thereto ; as the prodigal son here did , who when he had resolved upon it , did accordingly arise and go to his father , v. . i do not think there are many persons in the world who have convictions upon their minds of the evil of their ways ; but do resolve at one time or other before they die to repent of their sins , and to make their peace with god. but alas ! these are ova subventanea , they make a fair appearance , but there is no principle of life in them ; or as st. jude expresses it , they are clouds without water ; of no consistency , but carried about with winds ; hurried to and fro with the force and power of temptations ; and then their resolutions are like the vapours st. james speaks of , which appear for a little time , and then vanish away . trees they are without fruit , as st. jude goes on , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; not that make no shew or appearance of fruit ; but it hath no such firmness and substance in it as to endure the nipping frosts , and so it drops off , and withers away . just such are the effects of faint and imperfect resolutions , they never hold out long , and only aggravate the sins committed after them . for every such sin is a plain sin against conscience ; or else they would never have made any resolution against it . and those who continue to sin after resolutions against their sins , not only lose all the peace and comfort of their minds , but make it much harder for them , either to make or trust their resolutions again , and consequently to be satisfied of the sincerity of their repentance . if we would then lay a sure foundation for the satisfaction of our minds in a matter of such unconceivable moment as the truth of our repentance is , let us call our selves to an account as to this matter of the firm purpose and resolution of our minds . have we strictly examin'd our selves as to our particular sins ? for there is no age , no imployment , no condition of life but hath its temptations belonging to it ; which require not only our care and consideration , but resolution to keep us from them . but suppose we have been overcome by the sin which doth so easily beset us ; the work is harder to recover the ground we have lost , than at first to maintain it ; but if we have sinned , we must repent ; and the sooner the better ; but it is not to be done without awakening the drousie and benummed faculties of our minds , and exercising the secret and hidden powers therein . not as though this were to be done without the grace of god preventing and assisting us ; but because god worketh in us to will and to doe of his good pleasure , we ought to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling . let us then trifle no longer in a work we can never do too well , nor too soon ; nor go about it with too much resolution . it is the want of this , which ruins such a number of those who would fain go to heaven , but have not courage and resolution enough , to own their repentance , and to break off their former sins : they are half penitents ; they are inwardly troubled for them , and wish themselves able to withstand the next temptation ; but when it comes , they yield and suffer themselves to be drawn away , as a bird hasteth to the snare , and knoweth not that it is for his life . now in such cases , resolution is not only a convenient and proper thing ; but a very wise thing . for , when once a resolution is found to be serious , and in good earnest , the former companions in wickedness will leave off to solicit ; and if once a penitent sinner can endure to be despised , and exposed for a time by evil men for owning his repentance , he will find the other parts of his change grow more easie to him ; and the devil's instruments in tempting will be like himself ; i. e. they will give over tempting when they see no hopes to prevail . and let no men ever complain that they want power to break off their former sins , till they have tried what the strength of a vigorous resolution will do . but because we have always reason to suspect our selves , let us make our devout applications to almighty god to give us the assistance of his grace through the only mediation of his son jesus christ. to whom , &c. sermon ii. scripture and tradition compared ; in a sermon preached at guild-hall-chapel , novemb. the th . coloss. ii. . as ye have therefore received christ jesus the lord , so walk ye in him . there are two things observable in the manner of st. paul's expressing himself to the colossians in this epistle , . that he had a very good opinion of them at present , as appears by the foregoing verse . for though i be absent in the flesh , yet am i with you in the spirit , joying , and beholding your order , and the stedfastness of your faith in christ. what could be said more to the advantage and honour of a christian church ? for order is the strength and beauty of any society , uniting the several parts to each other , and thereby preserving and adorning the whole body . and the more there is of this in any christian church , the more it resembles the body of christ , and the greater honour it brings to the christian profession . especially , when it is joyned with a stedfastness of faith in christ , i. e. with a firm and well setled resolution to adhere to that faith which christ himself delivered . for the true faith of christ is not only the mark which distinguishes , but the soul which enlivens the body of the church , and by its vigour and influence makes the several parts of it become the living members of christ's body . but if all this were seen by st. paul in the church of the colossians , what need he to write so warmly and earnestly as he doth to them ? must we think , as some do , that he uses these expressions as gentle methods of insinuation , and commends them for that , which he would perswade them to ? but this doth not seem agreeable to the apostles simplicity and godly sincerity , which he elsewhere sets such a value upon . but it is far more probable that hitherto they had been very orderly and stedfast : but epaphras going to st. paul had informed him throughly of their condition , viz. that they were like a garrison closely besieged on all sides ; and although hitherto they had held out with great courage , yet he did not know what earnest sollicitations , and fair promises , and tempting motives might do with them , and therefore the apostle writes this epistle to encourage them in their stedfastness , and to warn them against temptations . which he doth in such a manner , as shews , . that he had a more than ordinary apprehension of the danger they were in . and this i say , saith he , lest any man should beguile you with enticing words , v. : and beware lest any man spoil you with philosophy and vain deceit , after the traditions of men , after the rudiments of the world , and not after christ , v. . let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels , &c. v. . all which expressions do imply , that he had just reason to fear and to give them caution in time , that while they did yet think that they stood , they should take heed lest they fell . and this is that which the apostle aims at in the words of the text ; as ye have therefore received christ jesus the lord , so walk ye in him . receiving christ jesus the lord , doth not here relate to his person , but to his authority , and to his doctrine ; so the apostle himself explains it in the next verse , rooted and built up in him , and established in the faith , as ye have been taught . walking in him is an eastern-way of speaking and supposes both an adhering to that faith they had then received , and living according to it , looking on christ and his doctrine , as their only way to heaven . and as ye had received him , so walk ye in him , implies that the manner of their receiving christ and his doctrine at first was different from that which the false apostles endeavoured to bring in among them , and that they were bound to keep close to that pure and primitive doctrine which they at first received . from hence we may consider a double obligation lying upon them . . to keep stedfast to that faith which they first received , without being seduced from it by the arts of deceivers , who were then busie among them . . to live according to it , by making that faith the principle of a christian life ; and so walking in him , as they have received him . . as to the former , the reasonableness of it cannot but appear from the supposition here made , viz. that they had received christ jesus the lord. for , thereby they declared , that they received him as the christ , i. e. as him who was anointed of the father to teach and instruct his church ; and therefore they were bound to adhere to his doctrine ; there being no other , whom the father hath sealed and appointed to declare his will ; and in him were hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge . they received him as christ jesus , that is , they hoped for redemption thro' his blood , even the forgiveness of sins . and if their hopes of heaven depended upon his mediation , they had the greatest reason to adhere only to him . they received him as christ jesus the lord , and therefore they ought to submit to his authority , to obey his commands , and to observe his institutions , and in all circumstances of life to keep stedfast to the doctrine which he delivered . but here arises the great difficulty , how they should know by any certain rule , what was the true and genuine doctrine of christ , which himself delivered ? for , . the false teachers among them pretended to deliver the true doctrine of christ as well as the apostles . . that which they at first received was no certain rule . for the false teachers might have been before them . and first possession gives no title in religion . . the apostle doth not put the whole trial meerly upon their judgments or memories , or capacities ; viz. what they thought , or remembred was at first taught them for the doctrine of christ. for , it was very possible for them to have mistaken , or to have mis-remembred , what was at first delivered . nothing can be more weak than to imagine that the judgments of people in matters of faith , must be formed according to the skill and excellency of their teachers . for the hearers of christ himself ; although he spake as never man spake , yet did very often mistake his meaning . and at one time so remarkably , that although he took care to rectify their misapprehension , yet it is said , from that time many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him . so that the highest infallibility in the teachers , doth not prevent the possibility , or the danger of mistaking in the hearers . and whatsoever any vainly pretend , nothing can do it , but transfusing the spirit of infallibility into all . if we look over the apostolical churches while they were under the care and conduct of an infallible spirit ; yet this did not prevent their running into great errours and mistakes , as appears by the account we have of them , given by that spirit which cannot deceive in the apostolical writings . in the church of rome it self , even at that time , when its faith was spoken of throughout the world , yet there were dissensions and differences there , and such as were contrary to the doctrine which was delivered . and st. paul bids them to mark such which caused them ; he doth not say , it was impossible for them to introduce any thing contrary to the doctrine which they had learned by tradition from the apostles ; but he not only supposes it very possible , but he bids them have a particular eye to them , lest they should be deceived by them . the church of corinth was planted by paul , and watered by apollos ; and there were disciples of cephas and of christ himself . and yet in the midst of so many infallible teachers , they had like to have lost all their faith ; as one of them tells them . how say some among you there is no resurrection of the dead ? and if christ be not risen , then is our preaching vain , and your faith is also vain . could not they remember to day what was taught them yesterday , and so what the apostles at first preached to them ? the churches of galatia had such an opinion of st. paul , upon his first preaching the gospel among them , that they received him as an angel of god , even as christ jesus ; yet presently after he saith , am i therefore become your enemy because i tell you the truth ? what! of an angel of god , or of one received as christ jesus , to become their enemy , and that upon the most unjustifiable account , because he told them the truth ! but , where truth can make enemies , errours may easily gain friends . and so we find it was in the apostolical churches , even under the conduct and teaching of the apostles . the colossians were not yet so far gone ; but they were in such danger , that the apostle writes this epistle with great concernment for them . he tells them v. . he had a sharp conflict in his own mind about them . they had not yet seen his face in the flesh , being converted by some sent by him , of whom epaphras is most taken notice of ; but he was present with them in spirit , v. . i. e. he was deeply affected with their condition ; for he understood the designs and artifices of the seducers among them . he knew what fair and plausible pretences they had ; viz. that they went about not to undermine christianity , but to advance it , by taking in some jewish customs , and some gentile observances , and modes of worship which might easily be accommodated to the christian doctrine ; and so a great deal of the animosities both of the jews and heathens would be removed ; and christianity would thereby gain more friends , and meet with fewer enemies . the apostle finding how necessary it was at this time , if possible , to keep them stedfast in the faith , . he assures them , that the christian doctrine was of it self so sufficient for the good of mankind , that it needed no additions , either from the law of moses , or the philosophy of the gentiles , which might introduce several things , with a specious appearance of wisdom , humility and mortification ; but they ought to be assured , that from christ they had all that was necessary or usefull for salvation ; for in him are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge . . that this doctrine was at first truly delivered to them , and they ought to be stedfast in it ; which is the design of the text. but they might object that epaphras was no apostle of christ himself ; and if he were , yet there were many apostles , and the false apostles pretended to be true ones ; and although st. paul interposed his authority ; yet he was but one , and the judaizers would not yield to it , but were ready to suggest , that the other apostles were more favourable to the jewish customs than he ; and therefore it was necessary some more general and common rule be found out , whereby to distinguish the original and genuine doctrine of christ from that of pretenders and seducers . the clearing of this is in it self a matter of great consequence ; and not only was to those of that age , but is so in every age of the christian church , where the same question may be put : what was the true primitive doctrine of christ ; and by what means may we come to it ? which concerns us at this day as well as them . and the answer lay in two particulars , which i shall endeavour to clear . . that which the apostles did in common deliver to the churches planted by them , was the genuine doctrine of christ. . that which they have left in their writings , after it came to be contested which was the true doctrine of christ. . that which the apostles did in common deliver to the churches planted by them . for , we have all the reason in the world to believe , that the apostles delivered one and the same faith to all the churches ; having the same infallible spirit to direct them . there was no need for them to meet together before their dispersion , and to agree upon some common article of faith , as ruffinus imagines , lest they should differ from each other ; for how could they differ , who had the same spirit of truth to lead them into all truth ? and we find nothing like a combination among the apostles , as to matters of doctrin● : and if there had been , it would have rendred the faith they delivered more suspicious , in that they durst not trust particular persons with delivery of it , without an antecedent confederacy among themselves , which would have looked like a mistrust of that promise of the spirits being fulfilled , upon all of them . and we find , when the gospels were to be written , there was no such meeting together , to settle the several parts of it ; and yet this was of as much consequence to the church of god ; but st. matthew writes his gospel in judoea , at the time , saith irenoeus , that peter and paul preached and founded a church in rome , st. mark either at rome or in egypt , not till after their decease , saith the same very ancient father : st. luke in greece , after st. paul planted churches in rome , and st. john in asia , after all the rest . but there was the same divine spirit , which assisted them all , and therefore there was such a concurrence as shewed their veracity , but such a variety as shewed there was no combination . but it is observable , that none of the gospels were written till the doctrine of christ had been preached by the apostles in many places , and many churches were formed and established by them . and there were two great advantages thereby . . the unity of the faith delivered by the apostles was the more seen ; because then without the help of a written rule , they so unanimously agreed in the doctrines they delivered . not , as though it were less possible to mistake without it ; but on the contrary , there being a much greater liableness to mistake , so universal a consent , was the stronger argument of a divine assistance . if there had been any difference in the doctrines preached by the apostles , there were so many enemies both of jews and infidels , and false apostles , who would presently have reproached the christian churches with it . but no disagreement is ever so much as mention'd , as to what the apostles themselves taught ; they had one body , one spirit , one lord , one faith , one baptism , one god and father of all . where-ever the apostles went , whether into scythia , parthia , mesopotamia , or any provinces of the roman empire , all who were converted by them were baptized into the same faith , which st. jude calls the faith once delivered to the saints . but once delivered though by many persons , and in very distant places ; and so once delivered , as the same faith once delivered is to continue to the world's end . for nothing can be made the faith of christ , which was not always so ; for that were to lay a new foundation , and to make another covenant than what christ hath sealed with his blood. but he is the same yesterday , to day , and for ever . the terms of salvation can never be altered , unless there be a new saviour , and new apostles , and new teachers . but if we go to heaven by christ , we must go that way that himself hath directed . for men and angels joining their powers together cannot save one soul ; christ alone being the way , the truth and the life ; and none can come to the father but by him . this the apostles very well knew , and were therefore carefull to deliver nothing to the church but what they received from christ , as st. paul saith of himself , for i have received of the lord that which i delivered unto you . not by way of tradition from men , but by immediate divine revelation ; for as he saith , he was not an apostle of men , or by men , but by jesus christ , and god the father ; and not long after he saith , he neither received the gospel of man , neither was i taught it but by revelation of jesus christ. there was none of all the first preachers of the gospel so liable to the suspicion of setting up for himself , and varying from the rest as st. paul was . for he was none of the original number of apostles , and he was a known persecutor of the disciples of christ and sudden converts are always suspected ; and ananias had a vision to satisfie him , and yet he could not tell what to think at first concerning him ; and the disciples when they first heard him were amazed ; after this , he took a course by himself , and did not go up to jerusalem to the college of apostles there resident , but went into arabia ; so that , if any one might be thought to set up another doctrine , it was he ; but he was so far from it , that he established and confirmed the truth of what they delivered , and was very successfull in his apostleship in all places . and when there had been some whispers concerning him , as though he proceeded not in the same way with the rest , he went up to jerusalem , and there upon full examination , james and cephas , and john , who were the leading apostles , gave him the right-hand of fellowship ; in token of their full consent in the same faith. . the truth of the gospel was the more plainly discovered . all this while , the apostles only preached and delivered their doctrine to the several churches by verbal instructions ; but after these had been received in the hearts of such multitudes , that there could be no suspicion that a false representation of christ's doctrine or actions could be received by those churches , then the wise providence of god took care for posterity , and imploy'd several persons in distant places and times to write the history of our saviour . and there was this advantage to the church that the gospels were written no sooner . for all the churches planted by the apostles , were then made judges whether the gospels written were agreeable to the doctrine which the apostles had taught ; and if not , there would have been just reason to have question'd either the truth of what had been taught them , or what was delivered in the gospels . but when they found the main to be fully consonant to what they had been taught , the testimony of every one of these churches did shew the concurrence of all the apostles , as to the doctrine contained in the several gospels . and that which adds to the strength of this proof is , that when the true gospels were written , there were several false and counterfeit gospels dispersed abroad under the names of the apostles themselves . as of st. peter , st. thomas , st. matthias , and others ; as eusebius informs us ; and as we have the genuine acts of the apostles , so there were the pretended acts of paul , of andrew and john , and the other apostles . how came these to be rejected , and the other to be carefully received ? here lies the true advantage of original tradition before the written gospels , that by it the several churches were enabled to pass a true judgment concerning them when they came to be dispersed among them . for they could presently tell , whether what they read wer agreeable to what they had heard and received from the apostles . as suppose the gospel of st. matthew being published in judoea , were carried into mesopotamia or persia , where many christian churches were very early planted ; these being throughly instructed by the apostles in all things relating to the life , death , resurrection and doctrine of christ , could presently judge whether st. matthew's gospel agreed with what they had heard or not , and the like holds as to all the churches in the roman empire . so that the consent of the churches so soon , while the memory of the apostles doctrine was so fresh in their minds , is in effect the consent of all the apostles who taught them . and this is very different from the case of particular persons in some churches , who might mistake or forget what was taught ; for this is a concurrent testimony of all the apostolical churches , who could not agree to approve an errour in the gospels contrary to the faith delivered to them . and that while some of the apostles were still living . for the other gospels were received and approved , before st. john wrote his . the case had been far otherwise , if no gospels had been written in that age ; for then it might have been suspected , that either the impressions of the first teachers were worn out , or they had been by degrees alter'd from their first apprehensions by the cunning craftiness of those who lay in wait to deceive them . after the decease of the apostles , the common tradition of the apostolical churches was usefull in these cases ; . to convey down the authentick writings of the apostles or evangelists , which were delivered to any of them . . to bear testimony against any pretended writings , which were not first received by the apostolical churches to which they were said to be written . for there can be no negative testimony of more force than that ; it being improbable to the utmost degree that such a church should not know , or not make known any true apostolical writings . . to overthrow any pretence to a secret tradition from the apostles different from what was seen in the apostolical writings . and to this purpose irenoeus and tertullian make very good use of the tradition of the apostolical churches against the pretenders to such a tradition , which those churches were not acquainted with . but they agree that the apostles committed the same doctrine to writing which they preached , and that it might be a foundation and pillar of faith ; that this doctrine was contained in the four gospels ; and that the apostolical churches did receive them from those who first wrote them , and that within the compass of the apostolical age. it was therefore most agreeable to the infinite wisdom of god in providing for a constant establishment of the faith of his church in all ages , neither to permit the gospels to be written till the churches were planted , nor to be put off to another generation . for , then it would have been plausibly objected ; if these things are true , why were they not recorded , when there were persons living who were best able to have either proved , or confuted them ? then we might have been satisfied one way or other ; but now the jews are dead , and the apostles are dead ; and although there are many left who believe their doctrine , yet this can never reach to the testimony of those who saw and heard the things themselves , or whose doctrine was attested by those who did so . and this is now the mighty advantage of the church ever since that the things concerning christ were written by such persons . with what another kind of authority do those words command our assent , that which was from the beginning , which we have heard , which we have seen with our eyes , which we have looked upon , and our hands have handled of the word of life ; for the life was manifested , and we have seen it , and bear witness , and shew unto you that eternal life ; which was with the father , and was manifest unto us , that which we have seen and heard declare we unto you ; then if all the testimony concerning christ were to be resolved into those who heard some say , that others told them , they had it from such , who saw those who conversed with them who saw christ in the flesh ? at such a distance the authority of a testimony is extremely lessen'd ; which is not like a river which grows greater by running ; but like a mineral water which loses its strength by being carried too far . we find in the time of papias who lived but in the second century , the authority of bare tradition was mightily sunk ; for , eusebius saith he conversed with the disciples of our lord and his apostles , he saith of himself , that he went up and down to them to get what he could from them , having a greater esteem of what he could learn from them than of what was written . and what advantage did this bring to the church ? it brought some idle opinions into reputation , saith eusebius ; for afterwards they thought it enough to fix them upon papias . but how was it possible for him to mistake ? eusebius saith , that being a man of mean capacity , he might easily misunderstand the meaning of what was spoken . but if tradition might fail after such a manner so near the apostle's times ; then we must be assured of the capacity as well as integrity of those of every age through whom a tradition passed , or else they might deceive , or be deceived about it . but god was pleased to provide better for the security of our faith , by causing the gospels to be written either by the apostles themselves , as st. matthew and st. john , or by the disciples of the chief apostles , while the others were surviving , as st. mark and st. luke ; and the latter gives this account of his undertaking to write it , viz. that thou mightest know the the certainty of those things wherein thou hast been instructed . his instruction was by an oral tradition ; but that it seems wanted something to strengthen and confirm it ; and that was by st. luke's writing his gospel . how could they add any assurance to him , if all the ground of his certainty were to be taken from tradition ? st. luke thought it necessary then , that those things which concerned the life and doctrine of christ should be put into writing , that they might be more certainly convey'd ; and that while they had the testimony of those , who were eye-witnesses and ministers of the word . . and so i come to the second rule of discerning the primitive doctrine of christ ; viz. the writings of the apostles , when matters of doctrine came to be contested , were the infallible rule , whereby they were to judge , which was the true and genuine doctrine of christ. there are some who pretend , that the apostle's writings were meerly accidental and occasional things , but that the main design was to lodge the great assurance of th● doctrine of christ in tradition from one to another ; and what they wrote was not to make any rule of faith , but only to give some good advice to those churches they wrote to . but i shall now prove that the writings of the apostles were intended by the holy ghost to be a standing rule , whereby the church was to judge which was the true and genuine doctrine of christ. . from the reasons and occasions of writing the books of the new testament . . as to the gospels , we must distinguish the general reason of writing them , from the particular occasions as to the several gospels . the general reason is to be drawn from the divine wisdom which inspired and guided them ; the particular occasions relate to the circumstances of writing them . the general reason is that which irenoeus gives , viz. that the gospel which they had first preached , was by the will of god put into writing , that it might be a foundation and pillar of our faith. not meerly to keep up the remembranee of it , which feuardentius yields , and thereby overthrows the infallibility of oral tradition ; but that so it may be a certain rule of faith to all ages . the evangelists saith st. augustin , were but christ's hands , which himself as the head , directed in writing the gospels , and therefore we are to look on the gospels as his own hand-writing . the holy ghost , saith he , directed the minds of the evangelists , as to the order and manner of their writing . which varied according to the particular occasions , but yet were all subservient to the general reason . st. matthew wrote the first gospel , saith eusebius , to the jews to whom he had preached , because going into other parts he would supply the want of his presence among them by his writing . what need this , if tradition were a certain and infallible way of conveying the doctrine of christ ? st. chrysostom saith , the jewish christians desired him to put into writing what they had heard him preach . did not they understand the force of tradition better ? or why should st. matthew put them out of an infallible way ? the author of the imperfect work on st. matthew saith , they desired him to write his gospel , that where-ever they went they might carry an account of their faith with them . clemens alexandrinus saith , the occasion of writing st. mark 's gospel was , that the people were not satisfied with an unwritten delivery of the holy doctrine , and therefore importuned mark , who was the disciple of st. peter , that he would leave a monument of his doctrine in writing ; which st. peter understanding by revelation , approved and confirmed his gospel for the use of the churches . origen saith , he wrote it according to st. peter's directions . epiphanius saith , by his authority . athanasius saith , it was dictated by him at rome . it seems that peter himself did not think fit to leave the doctrine of christ to an oral tradition , even at rome , but irenoeus thinks it was written after st. peter's decease , who therein differs from the rest , and shews how uncertain meer tradition is . tertullian saith , st. mark 's gospel was attributed to st. peter , and st. luke 's to st. paul. st. jerom mentions the opinion of some , that when st. paul saith according to my gospel , he means that of st. luke . but st. luke himself plainly gives an account of the occasion of his writing . st. ambrose thinks by those who had taken in hand to write of those things which were firmly believed among us , he means the authors of the counterfeit gospels , as that of the twelve apostles and st. matthias . but we have no evidence that these were older than st. luke ; his meaning is , that in those parts where he was , there were some who did undertake to give an account of the life and actions of christ , who wanted the advantages which he had ; having had great opportunities of knowing circumstances from the eye-witnesses ; and therefore he set himself to give an exact relation of them , that not only theophilus , but every one that answers his name might know the certainty of those things wherein they had been instructed . but , did not they know the certainty of these things by the apostle's preaching ? yes , but the things they heard might slip out of their memories ; and to prevent this , saith theophylact , st. luke wrote his gospel , that they might retain these things with greater certainty . and words that are only spoken are more easily misunderstood ; which maldonat assigns , as one great reason of the evangelists writing their several gospels . st. john likewise gives an account himself of the reason of his writing ; and that the greatest imaginable . but these are written that ye might believe that jesus is the christ , the son of god , and that believing ye might have life through his name . why written that ye might believe ? did the apostle in his old age mistrust the understandings or the memories of christians ? was not the apostle's teaching sufficient to keep up the principles of the christian faith in the hearts of the people ; no , not while st. john himself was yet living ? he had certainly a very mean opinion of tradition , that thought it necessary for him to write that they might believe that jesus is the son of god. for there was no point of faith more necessary than this , which was required of all persons to be owned before baptism . yet for all this , and whatever else can be said , st. john thought it necessary that these things be written that they might believe . he lived the longest of any of the apostles , and therefore saw how little tradition was to be trusted ; for it was already corrupted in so weighty a point as the divinity of christ. cerinthus and his followers allow'd the general tradition of the church , that jesus was the son of god ; but then they gave their own sense of it , by extraordinary favour and adoption . and from hence the fathers agree that st. john took occasion to write his divine gospel , to clear this fundamental point of the christian faith. and withall observing that the other evangelists insisted chiefly on the actions of christ for one year , viz. after john 's imprisonment , he resumes the whole matter , and adds those things which were omitted by the rest ; that so the church might be furnished with a full relation of all that was necessary to compleat and establish the faith of christians . . as to the epistles . the first epistle we read of in the christian church , ( and in probability the first writing in the new testament ) was the decretal epistle of the council of jerusalem . what should make the apostles put these decrees into writing ? they were very short , and concerned the practices of men , and withall were sent by barnabas and paul , and judas , and silas . were not these sufficient to deliver the apostle's sense to the churches , without letters from them ? what a pitifull thing did they take oral tradition to be , if they thought such men could not by it give full satisfaction to the churches of syria and cilicia , unless they sent it under their hands ? the epistle to the romans was written by st. paul on purpose to clear some main points of the christian doctrine , which were then warmly disputed between the jews and the christians , and between the judaizing christians and others , as about justification , rejection of the jews , the difference of meats , &c. and st. paul took very needless pains in writing that excellent epistle , if he knew of christ's appointing a judge of controversies there ; or if he thought writing were not a certain way to make a rule of faith , whereby they were to judge in those matters . the first epistle to the corinthians was written not meerly to reprove their factions and disorders ; but to direct them , and to establish and prove the faith of the resurrection , which was then contested among them . the epistle was sent by stephanus and fortunatus , who could have carried the apostle's sense without his writing ; but there are many weighty things , besides the particular occasions which are of lasting concernment to the church in all ages ; as there are likewise in his second epistle to them . the epistle to the galatians was written on occasion of one of the greatest points of controversie at that time , viz. the use and obligation of the law of moses . and st. paul found by sad experience among them , that it was very possible for those who had the best instructions , either to forget them , or to grow out of love with them , and to be fond of a change : else he would never have said , o foolish galatians , who hath bewitched you that you should not obey the truth ? and i marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of christ into another gospel . how ! was it indeed possible for them to be removed , and to be so soon removed , who had received the faith by the delivery of st. paul himself ? then , for all that i can see , humane nature taken with all its advantages and motives , and evidences , is a very fallible thing ; and if then it might be deceived , and that so easily and grosly ; then much more in any following age of the church ; unless humane nature be mightily changed for the better , since the apostle's times ; or any teachers since be more effectual , than the apostles , and especially than st. paul , who laboured more abundantly than they all . the epistle to the ephesians , though written upon a general argument , yet doth suppose that they were in continual danger of being deceived ; and tossed up and down , and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the slight of men , and cunning craftiness whereby they lie in wait to deceive . and therefore he advises them to be upon their guard , and to have their armour about them , and one choice part of it , is the sword of the spirit , which is the word of god. the philippians were assaulted by a rude , violent , head-strong faction of judaizers ; which the apostle bids them to beware of ; and writes his epistle to them for that purpose , and he exhorts them to stand fast in one spirit , with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel . in the second epistle to the thessalonians , and in both epistles to timothy , he gives notice of a great defection from the christian faith ; he describes the manner of it , that it shall be with signs and lying words , and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish , because they received not the love of the truth ; that they shall speak lies in hypocrisie , and forbid to marry , and command to abstain from meats , being evil men , having a form of godliness , and denying the power of it . i meddle not now with the time when this apostacy began ; but from hence , it is evident that st. paul supposed , that those who at first received the christian faith by tradition from the apostles themselves , might notwithstanding through their own weakness and folly , and the artifices of deceivers be drawn from it ; and that to prevent such mischievous consequences , he knew no better means than a written rule , which he tells timothy was able to make him wise to salvation ; and to make the man of god perfect , throughly furnished to every good work. and to name no more , the colossians were set upon by some who thought to refine christianity ; or at least to make it more passable in the world , and therefore would have introduced into it some rites of the jews , some austerities of the gentiles , some ways of worship which would recommend them to their adversaries ; and upon this occasion he writes this epistle to them to convince them that christianity alone was far beyond any mixtures of the fancies or traditions of men , and therefore he could give them no better advice , than as they had first received the doctrine of christ to continue in it , or in the words of the text , as they had received christ jesus the lord , so to walk in him . the design of what i have said is , that although the gospels and epistles were written upon particular occasions ; yet those occasions were so great and considerable ; and the assistance of the holy ghost did so direct the hands and pens of the evangelists and apostles in writing them , that what they have therein delivered contains a compleat rule of the true and genuine faith , as it was at first delivered to the church . but against this , it is objected , that st. paul himself charged the thessalonians to stand fast and hold the traditions which they have been taught either by word or by his epistles . from whence it appears , that there were other traditions to be held , that were not written . the force of all this will be taken away , if we consider when that epistle was written ; viz. one of the first which st. paul wrote , and soon after the former epistle to the thessalonians ; which was some time before st. luke's gospel , which was first received in the churches of greece planted by st. paul. therefore all the proper doctrine of christ himself , and all that relates to his life and actions were then but traditions among them ; and therefore st. paul had great reason then to require them to stand fast to the traditions they had been taught ; i. e. to the doctrine of christ they had received in that manner . but it is urged , that he mentions before , something he had said about antichrist's coming when he was with them , v. . if this be allow'd , it will be more against than for tradition . for , what is become of that tradition ? if it be lost , then it follows that tradition is no infallible way of conveyance ; and therefore we have more reason to adhere to a written word . . which leads us to the second reason from which i designed to prove , that there ought to be a written rule for discerning true primitive christianity ; and that is from the notorious un●ertainty of meer tradition . i say , notorious , because there never was any trial made of it , but it failed , even when it had the greatest advantages . i might insist upon the tradition of the first ages of the world ; when men's lives were so long , and the principles of the natural religion so few ; and yet both before and after the flood , mankind was strangely degenerated from them . i might insist on many instances in the first ages of the christian church ; so many , that scarce one can be produced wherein they pleaded meer tradition , but they were mistaken in it ; as about the millennium , the age of christ , the time of easter ( on one side or other ) the communicating infants . for st. augustin quotes apostolical tradition for it . but i shall wave all these , and only mention a very necessary and important thing , which was a long time trusted to tradition , and yet they differ'd so much about it , as evidently proved , that meer tradition was no infallible means of conveyance . and that is about the apostle's creed which was to be repeated by all that were to be baptized . we have many plain testimonies to prove , that this was not to be written ; but to be conveyed from one to another , by an oral tradition ; a st. hierom , b st. augustin , c ruffinus all affirm it . and the creed was commonly then called d the rule of faith ; which shewed that they looked on all the articles therein contained , as the standard of necessary points . and yet there is a plain and considerable difference in the ancient creeds ; some articles being in some which were not in others ; although we have reason to believe the necessary points were at first the same in all . or else the several churches must have different rules of faith. the church of jerusalem was called c the mother of all churches by the general council of constantinople ; and in the creed there delivered to the catechumens . d st. cyril mentions the eternal generation of the son before all worlds ; and so doth e eusebius at coesarea in the creed , which he saith , he learnt at his baptism , which was long before the nicene creed . f cassian makes it a part of that creed which the apostles delivered to the church , and was particularly received in the church of antioch . but no such thing was delivered in the western creeds as far as now appears , by what st. augustin , russinus , and others say in their expositions of it . st. jerom writing against the bishop of jerusalem , urges him with the creed , g ( no doubt that which was received in his own church ) and he saith , it consisteth of three main points , the confession of the trinity , the unity of the church , and the resurrection of the flesh. and the creed of the church of aquileia went no farther , saith h ruffinus ; nor some old copies of the roman creed . but marcellus of ancyra had eternal life in his i creed , and so had k cyril of jerusalem ; so had the african church in st. l augustin's time ; so had the church of ravenna ; but not the church of turin ; nor the gallican churches ; if maximus taurinensis , and venantius fortunatus explained all the articles of their creeds . ruffinus confesses the article of descent into hell , was not in the roman , nor in any of the eastern creeds . the creeds of jerusalem and aquileia had not the communion of saints ; nor those of marcellus and m epiphanius . the title of catholick was not added to the church in the creed in st. n augustin's time ; for the makes it a periphrasis , utique catholicam , from whence probably it came to be added afterwards . ruffinus takes no notice of it , and it was not extant in the old copies of the roman creed ; nor in that of marcellus ancyranus . these things i mention , not in the least to shake the faith of the articles of the apostle's creed ; which o st. augustin saith was gathered out of scriptures , and is agreeable to them ; but to shew what an uncertain way of conveyance meer oral tradition is , when a thing so easily remembred , so constantly used , of so much weight and consequence , fell into such varieties in the greatest churches , while they were so scrupulous about the writing of it . what cause have we then to be thankfull to god , that hath taken so much care of his church , as to provide us an infallible written rule in the holy scriptures , whereby we certainly know , what the true primitive christianity was , which was delivered by christ and his apostles ? but here is a great difficulty to be removed , as to the written word . how can we be certain , we have it , if not by tradition ? and if tradition be so uncertain , how can we be made certain by it , that we have that written word which the apostles delivered ? for might not that fail in this , as well as the creed ? and then what security can we have for our faith ? in answer to this , i shall shew , . what advantage things that are written have , as to the certainty of conveyance above things meerly committed to memory and tradition . . what advantage the scriptures have , above any other things committed to writing as to the certainty of their conveyance . . as to the advantage things written have above those committed to memory and tradition only . which will appear by these things , . it was the way god himself made choice of , where the reason for tradition was stronger ; i mean as to the ten commandments , which were short and plain , and easie to be remembred , and very agreeable to the sense and general interest of mankind ; yet the wise god who perfectly understood the nature of man , would not leave the ten commandments to an oral tradition , but god delivered to moses two tables of stone written with the finger of god ; and on them he wrote the ten commandments . what a vain and superfluous thing were this , if oral and practical tradition were infallible ? but god 's own pitching upon this way , after so long a trial of mankind in the other ; is a demonstration of the greater certainty of it , if we suppose that god aimed at the benefit of mankind by it . . when religion was corrupted among the jews , the only way of restoring it was by a written book of the law. as we find in the case of josiah's reformation , which was made by the book of the law , which was found in the house of the lord. this was the rule by which hilkiah the high-priest , thought it necessary for josiah to go by ; and not by any tradition left among them concerning the law which god had given by moses . . this was that which our saviour appealed to in all his disputes ; search the scriptures , saith he to the jews ; not run to your traditions , for those were then very corrupt , especially about the messias , as that he was to be a temporal prince , &c. which was then a dangerous and fundamental mistake ; and therefore christ ap●eals from them to the scriptures ; and they are they which testifie of me . had ye believed moses , ye would have believed me , for he wrote of me ; but if ye believe not his writings , how shall ye believe my words ? and our saviour severely checks the pharisees for regarding their own traditions more than the written law. and yet they pretended to an oral tradition down from moses ; as the jews do to this day ; and none are more grosly deceived than they . . the general sense and experience of mankind agrees herein , that all matters of consequence are more certainly preserved by writings than by meer words . there is no invention hath been more valued by the wiser part of mankind than that of letters ; because it is of such excellent use for conveying the sense of our minds at a distance to others . all men have so great a mistrust , either of the capacity or memory , or fidelity of others ; that what they would have done with security they commit to writing . and whatever we truly understand of the ages before us , we are beholden to writing for it ; all those memorable actions , and institutions , either of philosophy or religion which were not written , are long since buried in oblivion , without possibility of a resurrection . but where they have been committed to writing they are preserved after so many ages ; and by it we certainly know the history of the patriarchs , and the strange revolutions that happened from the beginning of the world. by it , we converse with the wisest persons of former times ; and are able to justifie the scriptures by the concurrent testimonies of other writers . by it , we are enabled to interpret prophecies , and to make plain their accomplishments , which without it , we could never make out . yea by it , the wisdom of those is preserved for the benefit of mankind , who thought fit to write nothing themselves , as socrates and pythagoras , but their disciples took care in time to write their doctrines . so that we have the general consent of the wisest part of mankind , that writing is a far more certain way of conveyance than meer tradition . . and especially in our case where there are so many particular advantages , as to the holy scriptures , above any other writings . . from the special providence of god , with respect to them ; for since it is agreed by all christians , that these were written by divine inspiration , it is most reasonable to believe , that a more than ordinary care would be taken to preserve them . and therefore to suppose any books of scripture to be lost , which contained any necessary points of faith is a great reflexion on divine providence . for , if god watches over his church , he cannot be supposed to let such books be lost which were designed for the universal and lasting benefit of his church . . from the mighty esteem which the church of god had always for them ; for , they built their hopes of heaven upon the promises contained in them . the book of scripture was their evidence for their future inheritance ; the foundation of their hope , and rule of their faith ; their defence against assaults and temptations ; their counseller in cases of difficulty ; their support , under troubles ; and their surest guide to a happy eternity ; and therefore the primitive christians chose rather to endure any torments than basely to betray it , and give it up to their enemies . . from the early disputes that were about them . which shews that they were no invention of after-times ; nor were brought into the world by stealth and art ; for , they endured the greatest shock of opposition at first , while the matters of fact concerning them were the most easily proved . and having passed the severe scrutiny of the first ages , when so many counterfeit writings were sent abroad , the following ages could have no reason to call their authority in question . . from the general consent of divided churches about them . it might have pleased god to have kept his church from those unhappy breaches which have been in all parts of the christian world ; but the east , and the west , the north and the south can all bear testimony to the sad divisions of christendom ; and those of many ages standing . but yet , we have this considerable advantage by them ; that we can have no reason to mistrust a conspiracy where the several bodies are so much divided . . from the great internal satisfaction which the minds of good men have concerning them ; and which no other writing can pretend to give . for here we read of the promise of divine assistance to sincere and humble minds . and that assistance carries a lumen fidei into the mind ; as aquinas calls it . . a ad . and by that , he saith , the mind is united to truth , that its assent is only fixed upon it ; and therefore there is no danger of damnation to those who are in christ jesus , and are thus illuminated by faith in him . not that this is an argument to convince others , who have not that inward sense which they have ; but the same holy spirit which did at first indite them , may give such an inward and effectual testimony as to the truth of the matter contained in them ; that from thence they may firmly conclude these books to contain the word of god. and that assurance which the minds of good men have from the influence of divine grace , may be more effectual and powerfull in them , than all the pretended infallibility or demonstration in the world. it is certain those cannot be deceived whom the holy spirit teacheth ; and the best and wisest of the antient schoolmen did make the great firmness and certainty of faith not to depend on outward motives , but on inward grace ; which so inlightned the mind , and fixed the inclinations of the soul , that nothing is able to remove it . this sort of faith is no blind assent ; but after all the evidence which it hath to make its assent reasonable ; it takes so fast a hold of divine truths by discerning the excellency and value of them , that he that hath it is willing to let go any thing rather than that ; and although the apprehension of faith be not so clear as that of science ; yet the hypostasis , as the apostle calls it , may be so firm , that no temptations may be able to shake it . and he that can die for his religion hath a stronger and better f●ith , than he that thinks himself never so infallible in the grounds of it . that is a true divine faith which purifies the heart , and thereby enlightens the mind ; which works by love , and not by cavilling and wrangling about the grounds of it ; which overcomes the world , and not that which is overcome by the temptations of it . and such a faith , and only such a one will carry us to heaven ; when , if it were possible for us to have the utmost infallibility in the act of believing ; yet if it did not work effectually on our hearts and lives , we might go infallibly to hell. and so i shall conclude this discourse with the second sense of the obligation which lies on those who have received christ jesus the lord , so to walk in him : i. e. to improve their sound faith into the practice of a good life . for alas ! what advantage will it be to us , to have the most primitive and apostolical faith , if our works be not answerable to it ? why call ye me lord , lord , saith christ , and do not the things which i say ? why do we pretend to receive christ jesus the lord , if we do not observe his commands ? it is good , saith st. paul , to be zealously affected always in a good thing . and no doubt our faith is such ; but then let us be zealous of good works too , that we may shew our selves to be that peculiar people who are redeemed by jesus christ. so that our obligation arises every way from christ jesus the lord , to walk in him ; if we consider him as our lord , so we are to obey him ; if as christ jesus , so he died for us to redeem us from all iniquity . we can have no pretence to live in our sins , if we have received him who commands us to forsake them ; for then we receive and reject him at the same time . let every one that names the name of christ , depart from iniquity , saith st. paul , what should those then do that profess to receive him as their lord , who are thereby bound to yield obedience to his laws ? one of the great causes of the degeneracy of the heathen world was the separating religion and morality ; when this was left to the schools of philosophers to instruct men in , whereas their religion consisted only of some solemn rites and sacrifices . let us have a care of as dangerous a separation between faith and works , or which is all one , between receiving christ , and doing his will. for those are the proper works of the gospel , wherein we own christ as our lord , and do them because he commands us . and the apostle hath summ'd up the whole duty of christians in those comprehensive words , teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts , we should live soberly , righteously , and godly in this present world ; looking for that blessed hope , and the glorious appearance of the great god , and our saviour jesus christ. to whom , &c. sermon iii. preached before the queen at white-hall , february the d , / . pet. iv. . and if the righteous scarcely be saved , where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear . this epistle was written by s. peter for the incouragement of christians under all their sufferings ; but these words seem to carry so much terrour and severity in them , as though none but martyrs and confessors could have any reason to hope for salvation , and all others were to be left in despair . although mankind be not easily satisfied concerning the punishment denounced against the ungodly and sinner , yet the justice of god , the equity of his commands , the freedom of their choice , the contempt of grace , and their wilfull and obstinate impenitency take away all just cause of complaint : but , that the righteous should scarcely be saved , seems hardly reconcilable with the grace , and design , and promises , of the gospel . for the righteous here are not vain , proud , self-conceited hypocrites , such who think they need no repentance , but such who by the grace of god were brought off from their former sins , and were redeemed from their vain conversation with the precious blood of christ , who had purified their souls in obeying the truth through the spirit ; who were a chosen generation , a royal priesthood , an holy nation , a peculiar people ; yet of such as these it is said , if the righteous scarcely be saved . but how can this agree with the infinite goodness and mercy of god declared in the gospel , whereby sinners are courted and encouraged to repent with the hopes and promise of salvation ? did not christ come to save sinners , and st. paul call this a faithfull saying and worthy of all acceptation ; and yet after all , shall the righteous scarcely be saved ? what joy in heaven can there be over one sinner that repents , if after his repentance it be so hard to come to heaven ? doth not christ himself invite those who are weary , and heavy laden , to come to him , with a promise that he will give rest to their souls ? but what rest can they have , who , notwithstanding their coming to him , do with so much difficulty attain to eternal rest ? how can that be said to be an easie yoke , and a light burthen , which is of it self so hard to be born , and the reward which is to make it easie so hard to be attained ? if it be said that this expression , that the righteous are scarcely saved , is to be understood of some sufferings , and persecutions , which the christians were then to undergo , and it was very hard for any though never so righteous , to escape ; and that to this , v. . referrs , i answer , that this doth not clear the difficulty ; for from whence doth this necessity of suffering arise ? is it not enough to repent and forsake our sins , but we must undergo some punishment for them in this life , although god remits that of the world to come ? but how is this consistent with the fulness of christ's satisfaction , and the freeness of god's remission of sins ? and if god's justice be satisfied and the sins be forgiven , what need can there be that persons must here suffer for their sins before they can come to heaven ? so that for the clearing this subject these things must be spoken to : i. in what sense the righteous are said to be scarcely saved . ii. how this is consistent with the grace of the gospel . iii. what incouragement there is for us to hope for salvation , when the righteous are said to be scarcely saved . i. in what sense the righteous are said to be scarcely saved . that may be understood two ways ; ( . ) with respect to accidental difficulties arising from the particular circumstances of times and seasons . ( . ) with respect to the general terms of salvation , which are common to all persons and times . ( . ) with respect to accidental difficulties arising from the particular circumstances of times and persons . for the difficulties of religion are not alike in all times , nor to all persons ; for they are not like a geometrical measure , which is always exactly the same ; but rather like a voyage at sea , which is to be managed by the same compass and to the same port ; but it sometimes proves calm and pleasant , and at other times stormy and tempestuous . which chiefly happens , when a religion appears new , or goes about to reform the old ; for then it is sure to meet with all the opposition , which the passions , and interests , and prejudices of partial men can raise against it . it 's true , he that stills the raging of the sea , and the madness of the people , can , when he pleases , calm the most violent passions of mankind , and make way for the reception of truth in their minds ; but he thinks fit by such means to try and discover what is in men. who never shew their passions more violently and unreasonably than when they are mask'd under a pretence of zeal against heresie and innovation . for that blinds their understandings , corrupts their wills , inflames their passions , hardens their hearts , and shuts up all bowels of pity and compassion towards brethren . thus it was among the jews towards the christians , both in judoea , and in the several places of their dispersion : for they looked on them as apostates and hereticks , and treated them , not only with the utmost scorn and contempt , but with all the fury and rage imaginable , and where their own power fell short , they called in the assistance of the roman governours , representing the christians to them , as an upstart and pernicious sect , seditious and turbulent , and therefore ought by all means to be supprest : by such insinuations the poor christians in the eastern provinces of the jewish dispersion , were miserably harassed and proceeded against as malefactours . thus it was at that time when st. peter wrote his epistle to the jewish christians , who were scattered throughout pontus , galatia , cappadocia , asia , and bithynia , where there were abundance of jews , and many converts , but very hardly used among them . st. peter having been imployed much among them , ( the apostleship of the circumcision being committed to him ) and being withdrawn into the kingdom of parthia , where he had planted a church at babylon , ( not so desolate at that time , as not to be sufficient for such a number , as appears by strabo and josephus ) from thence he writes this excellent epistle for the advice and comfort of the suffering christians . he adviseth them to behave themselves with great prudence and care of their actions , to give no advantage against themselves , by doing any ill things ; and then , if it pleased god to call them out to suffer , they ought not to murmur , or complain , or mistrust his gracious providence towards them , but commit themselves to god in well doing , as unto a faithfull creatour . and if they did think it hard for them to suffer these things , they ought to consider , there was a wise directour of them above , who had before hand appointed such a series of events , that although their enemies rejoyced to see them suffer in the first place , yet their turn would come not long after , and then these enemies of the gospel would feel the severity of god's wrath and displeasure against them . which is the meaning of the foregoing verse . for the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of god ; and if it first begin at us , what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of god ? i. e. christ hath foretold desolation and ruine to come upon the jewish nation , for rejecting him when he came to save them ; but he withall saith , that before these things , they shall lay their hands on you and perfecute you , delivering you up to the synagogues , and into prisons , being brought before kings and rulers for my name 's sake . which implies a severe persecution of the christian church , begun by the jews , but carried on by the governours of kingdoms and provinces . and therefore saith the apostle , although the time be now come that judgment begins ●t the house of god , yet it will not end there ; but that which is only a cup of trembling and astonishment to them shall be a cup of fury and destruction to the obstinate and impenitent jews . the cafe was hard to the poor christians , but it would be much more severe towards their cruel persecutours ; for if the righteous , whom god loves , meet with such sharp usage by his permission for a time , the day will come when god will avenge the cause of his suffering people , and make their ungodly and perfidious enemies feel the smart of his displeasure in such manner that they shall not know where to hide themselves , where shall the sinner and ungodly appear . but that which i observe from hence is , that there are some accidental circumstances which depend on divine providence , which may make the condition of some men , as to salvation , much more difficult than that of others : for it is no such easie matter to go through many tribulations into the kingdom of god , i. e. to be content to be contemned and reproached as the worst of men ; to be torn from friends and relations , and all the comforts of life ; to be cast into loathsome prisons , and more loathsome company in them ; to be in continual expectation of such cruel usage and torments , as make death to be look'd on as their best friend and most seasonable deliverer . if sufferings do not rise so high , yet when men cannot keep faith and a good conscience , without hazarding the loss of what mankind are apt to set too great a value upon , their ease , and riches , and expectations in this world , even these make it harder for such persons to get to heaven ; because sincerity and constancy are the necessary conditions of it , which may be tried much more in some than it is in others . we must all have the same journey's-end , if we hope to get to heaven , but some may meet with a freer road , and a calmer season , and better company , in their journey than others . however it happens we must go through all , and not be discourag'd at any appearance of difficulties upon our way . but herein mankind are apt to be deceived , as though all the difficulties lay in a suffering condition ; whereas a soft , and careless , and voluptuous life is rather more dangerous to their souls , because persons are less apt to suspect their danger . he that is set upon by force and violence endeavours to defend himself as well as he can ; but he that is betrayed under a pretence of kindness is drawn into his ruine before he is aware , and goes on chearfully to his own destruction . prosperi●● hath the true nature of an opiate , for it stupifies and pleases at the same time . the temptations of the suffering side are apt to allarm , awake , and rouze up the sleepy powers of the soul ; whereas the gentle and easie condition of life either lays them asleep , by a kind of intoxication , or so div●●ts them from all serious things , as puts them out of the very way to heaven . for , the first thing in it is a steady and serious resolution of mind to do what lies in them to go thither ; which can never be done without a true consideration of the vanities of this world , how pleasing soever ; and a fixed and settled judgment , preferring the happiness of heaven before all the most alluring pleasures of this life . so that the different circumstances of life do make the way of salvation more difficult to some than to others . but this is not all ; for there are many things which make it more difficult to some than to others , which are of another nature . some tempers are more flexible and pliable than others ; more capable of hearkning to reason ; and mo●●●●t to reflect on their own actions , ●hereas others are naturally stiff and obstinate , who stick as fast to an opinion or prejudice which they have once taken up , as if they were fatally determined to it ; and such as these can hardly ever be convinced they are in an errour , unless by a power superiour to nature . some again , are very easily convinced of ● fault , but very hardly reclaimed ; for that facility of temper which makes them easie to be convinced , lays them open to the next temptation , which they are not able to withstand . these are always repenting and amending and beginning to reform , but without the grace of god , not able to go through with it . some are modest and bashfull sinners , whom fear and shame may restrain ; others are so hardned and impudent in their wickedness , that they deny even the very first principles of morality as well as religion , and not only refuse to hearken to reproof , but reject it with scorn and indignation . and it cannot be supposed that the grace of god , working on men's minds in a way suitable to them , should have as easie an admittance into one as into the other ; for the one are like a house with doors shut , but easily opened ; the other like a house not only shut , but bolted and barracadod . again , some have had the advantage of a pious and religious education , by which the principles of piety and vertue have made an early impression on their minds , and have been a continual check upon evil inclinations ; and if they have been too weak to subdue them , yet they have been strong enough to prevent their extravagancies , or to bring them to a speedy repentance , and to take up firmer resolutions ; and such are more easily brought to themselves and settled in a vertuous course of life . but the generality of mankind , thro' a wretched carelesness , mind not the early improvement of their children in what is good ; and what education they give them tends to any thing more than the planting the sense of god , and true religion , and vertue , in them . it were well , if they would but let nature alone in their children ; but instead of that , they often place such about them , who humour them in their worst inclinations , and give them an early taste of profaneness and irreligion ; so that when they come into the world , they run into all manner of wickedness , and commit it with greediness , having so quick a relish of it ; and then indeed it is a very hard matter to bring them to repentance ; for that is to take shame and dishonour to themselves , to say they have been fools , and have done wickedly ; and rather than do this , they chuse to go on in their impieties , and treasure up wrath against the day of wrath . those who magnifie the freedom of will in mankind in this degenerate state , seem to consider them only in theory and speculation ; not as they are , but as they ought to have been . it is like that which they call the spring in some bodies , which are apt to dilate and expand themselves , but may be easily oppressed with such a weight as makes it impossible for them to enlarge themselves till it be removed . there is no doubt in mankind , considered in it self , a power of acting according to reason , which is the truest freedom , ( for a power of acting otherwise is weakness and folly , ) but what through the natural propensity to evil ; what through the power of bad examples ; what through the violence of some tempers and passions ; what through the cloudiness of some understandings , from bodily distempers ; what through the strength of evil habits , and corrupt dispositions , there is scarce such a thing as freedom of will left , especially as to matters of salvation . so that if the scripture did not so plainly express the necessity of divine grace for the conversion of sinners ( as it doth , ) the mere consideration of the state of humane nature would make me believe it , supposing that any part of mankind be designed to be fitted for heaven . for although the difficulties be not alike in all , yet , of one kind or other , they are such as cannot be overcome by our selves , without the power of divine grace exciting , preventing , and assisting of us . ( . ) having thus shewed what difficulties there are which arise from the different circumstances of times and persons , i am now to consider those which arise from the terms of salvation , which are common to all persons and times . here we must suppose salvation to be the thing aimed at , as the chief end or happiness of such men ; and here are two kinds of difficulties to be enquired into ; ( . ) such as are implied in the general pursuit of happiness . ( . ) such as immediately relate to this kind of happiness . ( . ) such as are implied in the general pursuit of happiness : for happiness is not a thing of chance or necessity , but a matter of choice and design . it is a vulgar mistake ( and i wish it were only among the vulgar ) to account those happy , who are fortunate : but this notion of happiness was unanimously rejected by all the ancient moralists . some of them indeed have thought it repugnant to common sense , to call those happy who were under great calamities , i. e. who were , in the sence of mankind , miserable : but then they utterly denied , that the best outward circumstances could make a man happy ; for that must depend upon the temper of a man's mind , and his improvement in vertue . these are some things which the moralists agreed in , which may be of great use to us for clearing the christian doctrine in this matter about the difficulty of attaining salvation . ( . ) that happiness did consist in one uniform design of life , i. e. that a man must chuse one proper and chief end to himself , and so order his thoughts and actions that he may attain it . and therefore the dissolute and careless liver , that minds or thinks of nothing but eating , and drinking , and sleeping , and passing away his time , was no more capable of happiness than a brute , which exceeds him in that which he accounts the happiness of life . ( . ) that there must be a carefull and attentive mind to pursue this design . and that is by keeping close to those maxims , which were laid down as necessary to attain it . for , according to their different notions , they had different maxims , or rules of practice , either as to vertue or pleasure , and as men did observe these , they were nearer to their happiness : but if they broke their rules , they must blame themselves if they missed of it . ( . ) that any man who desired to be happy , must above all things take pains about himself : for without that they concluded it impossible for a man to be happy , let his outward condition in the world be what it would : for that was too uncertain a foundation to build such a structure upon . therefore it was necessary for any one that pretended to happiness , to have a true notion of what conduced to it in his mind ; and to bring his passions into order . for all the world cannot make one whose passions are violent and extravagant , to be happy ; no more than him to be a sound and healthfull man , that hath a fever , and a dropsie , and convulsions , at the same time upon him . for the violence of lust is an inward burning fever ; covetousness , or an insatiable desire of riches , a perpetual dropsie , which encreases the thirst by an endeavour to quench it ; an excessive anger is a convulsion of those powers of the soul which ought to be sedate , and composed , in any one who pretends to happiness . but when they considered the force of natural inclinations , they found it was no easie matter to make the unreasonable part to be governed by the reasonable . for the less of reason , the more wilfulness and stubbornness ; and therefore the harder to be brought to reason and to be govern'd by it . and herein lay the main difficulty ; and after all their arguments , and rules , and directions , humane nature was found too refractary to submit ; and the violence of man's passions overthrew all the plausible schemes of happiness which the philosophers had set up . to which i add , ( . ) that those who consulted most the ease and pleasure of mankind , were forced to put men upon some hard and unpleasant things to make any thing like happiness to consist in pleasure . for they cast off all riot and excess , all intemperance and luxury , because the pain which followed exceeded the pleasure ; and therefore they made temperance and chastity necessary to the true pleasure of life . they reduced the happiness of pleasure to a fixed and setled state , and so took it off from that which was only sensual . they brought men's desires within so narrow a compass , that the true lovers of pleasure would abhorr such confinements as they made necessary . and although they could never conquer the fears of invisible powers , and of death , yet they thought no happiness was to be had without it . so that all were agreed , that it was impossible to attain to any thing that looked like happiness without some real difficulty , which was necessary to be undergone , altho' the success were uncertain . ( . ) let us now consider the difficulties relating to salvation , or that happiness which christians expect . and here i shall shew , ( . ) that it is far more reasonable to go through difficulties , for the sake of it . ( . ) that they are not such , but that we may reasonably hope to overcome them . ( . ) it is more reasonable to expect difficulties in the way of salvation . for the more excellent and desirable the happiness is , the more it is worth the while for us to take pains about it ; especially when there is a certainty of attaining it . the moralists had but very dark , and confused , and uncertain notions of happiness ; something they saw , but with a very glimmering light : they found that all men desired it , and wise men sought after it ; but wherein it lay , and how to be attained , they could not agree . the most considering men were convinced it must be in the best part of our selves , and that is our minds , and in the greatest perfection of that , viz. vertue and goodness . but they met with insuperable difficulties in the way to it , and the best among them sadly lamented the state of humane nature , after all the pains and endeavours they had used to rectifie their opinions , and to subdue their passions . for they found it too restiff and untractable , too much under the sway and dominion of the sensitive appetite , for them ever to hope by the mere power of reason to bring it into such subjection , as to pretend to a total conquest . and those who refined pleasure so much , as to make it a happiness fit for mankind to own , did make a happiness just as they made their gods , viz. a fine , subtil , airy , pleasant no-thing , or that had no solidity in it : for the epicurean happiness , with all its refinements , was rather a matter of speculation than practice ; and after all was not worth so much pains about it , but like the gourd , which after its paring , and cleansing , and dressing , is fit only to be cast upon the dunghill . but it cannot be said that the happiness offered to christians is of such a nature : for it is really the best , the most valuable and desirable good , not promised to be enjoyed in this mean , despicable , and uncertain state of life , but reserved for a more free , spiritual and continuing state. so our apostle calls it , an inheritance , incorruptible and undefiled , and that fadeth not away , reserved in heaven for you . such is the condition of the world without us here , and of the passions and infirmities within us , that it is a vain thing to expect a true happiness to be enjoyed in this life ; the utmost we can hope for , is to be prepared for a better ; and god knows there is difficulty enough in that . we have hearts so vain and sensual , so addicted to the pleasures and impertinencies of this world , so prepossessed with the objects of sense , that it is no easie matter to bring them so much as in earnest to consider of another world. but it is yet harder to fix the thoughts of it upon our mind● so as to make a deep impression upon them , as they must do , if we make the happiness of heaven our chief end and design . supposing that paradise were still upon earth in its first glory , and to be found by the description which moses gives of it ; a man may think often concerning it ; where it lies , what the rivers are by which it is to be discovered ; but all this amounts but to a mere speculation : but suppose that he takes up a resolution to go thither , what other kind of thoughts hath he then about it , as to the truth and certainty of the place ; and the way that leads thither , and the difficulties he is like to meet with ? which make another kind of impression than the former dry speculation did . if a man doth not think heaven worth all the pains and difficulties which lie in our way to it , he never yet had one serious and becoming thought concerning it . for the happiness proposed is really so great and invaluable , that the more we think of it , the more we shall esteem it , and the more we shall despise and triumph over the greatest difficulties in order to it ; it being no less than the perfect enjoyment of the most perfect good , in a most perfect state of life , and nothing can be desired by humane nature greater than this . ( . ) the difficulties in our way to salvation are not such , but we may reasonably hope to overcome them ; i. e. if we set our selves about it ; otherwise a very mean difficulty will appear too great for us . therefore we must suppose not only a willing mind , but a firm resolution to do what lies in us . and there are two things to shew that we may hope to overcome them ; ( . ) that the most difficult duties are in themselves reasonable to be performed by us . ( . ) that god offers his gracious assistance for the performance of them . ( . ) that the most difficult duties are in themselves reasonable . i mean such whose difficulty doth not arise from accidental outward circumstances ; but from a respect to the present state and condition of humane nature . such as , ( . ) true repentance ; which is one of the hardest works of a man's life , when he hath been long engaged in a course of sinning against conscience . it is not hard for such a one to be made sensible that he hath done amiss ; for he that acts against his judgment is , as aristotle observes , apt to repent , i. e. to find fault with himself for his own actions , and to resolve to amend . there is a sort of displeasure against sin , which is consistent with the practice of it , which is called by the casuists , attritio impoenitentium ; but they say it is without a purpose of forsaking it , if there be such a purpose that they say is attritio poenitentium ; but if it be an ineffectual purpose , the scripture no where calls it repentance . for as long as the habitual practice continues , it is certain that man's love to his sin exceeds his hatred of it ; and what repentance can that be which is consistent with a prevailing love of sin ? when persons were first made christians , their repentance was easily discerned , whether true or false , because it was a publick and solemn renunciation of all their former sins ; but when men have accustomed themselves to sin under a profession to renounce their sins , it is a harder matter to find out the sincerity of their repentance as to those sins . and here a difference must be made as to the nature and kind of sins : for there are some sins which all agree to be sins , yet it is a hard matter to convince persons that they are guilty of them , such as hypocrisie , schism , and idolatry , which men will find something to excuse themselves from , notwithstanding the clearest evidence against them . some are such strangers to themselves , that they do not suspect themselves for those sins which others easily discern in them , as is common in the case of pride , and envy , and covetousness , and superstition . it cannot be supposed that persons should so particularly repent of such sins which they are not sensible of ; but where self-love blinds it cannot excuse . and where such evil habits prevail , persons must repent , and search , and examine themselves in order to a particular repentance . there are other sins which are really perpetual burthens to a good mind , but it knows not how to get rid of them with the utmost care ; such as inward motions to sin , sudden heats and surprises , mixt infirmities , coldness in devotion , distractions in prayer , and many omissions of personal duties ; in such cases as these , if we do not allow sincerity of repentance without through amendment , we make a general repentance insignificant , and make the condition of many good men desperate ; for none can be saved without true repentance . and if there can be no true repentance without actual forsaking all such kinds of sins , there is no such thing as true repentance to be found . but there are other sins of a more dangerous and malignant nature , which argue a very bad mind ; such as malice and hatred , a rooted aversion to what is good ; and a strong inclination to evil. there are some sins that are gross and notorious , of which st. paul saith , the lusts of the flesh are manifest ; i. e. such sins are easily known to be sins , and men's consciences condemn them even while they commit them ; such as murther , adultery , intemperance , injustice , perjury , and such like . of which the apostle after declares , that they who do such things shall never come to heaven . therefore as to them , such a repentance is necessary as implies not merely a dislike and sorrow for them , but a thorough change of a man's mind , and the course of his life , with respect to them . and surely it is no easie matter to new mold the temper of ones mind , and to turn the tide of our actions ; to break off our beloved sins , and to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance . this is indeed a hard work ; but yet it is a most reasonable work. it is hard , but it is like the taking violent physick in some diseases , where the humour must be purged out , or the party must die ; the uneasiness i● not to be considered , but the necessity ; and in such a case the mind cannot be at ease till it be done . so that the very difficulty of repentance lays the foundation for greater peace of mind afterwards . and who will think much of such a difficulty , which is so necessary to peace with god and his own conscience ? ( . ) the love of god above all things . this is so fundamental a duty , that we cannot place our happiness in god without it . for if we do not love god above all things , we must love somewhat else so ; and whatever we love above all things , that we make our happiness . but i am affraid the greatest part of the world love all things above him : for we are to judge of men's love and esteem by what they court , and pursue , and desire , and delight in ; it is impossible there should be such a love of god , where the stream of the affections and course of actions run quite another way ; i mean , to the vanities of this world , of which the apostle hath said , if any man loves it , the love of the father is not in him . but this is a hard point : for some degree of love to this world is allowable ; else how can we thank god for the comforts of it ? and all persons who know god do grant , that his perfections are far above all the world , and therefore they seem to have a value and esteem for him above it . we must here distinguish a notional esteem from that which is practical . a notional esteem implies no more than a mere conviction that god must exceed all the excellencies which are scattered in the creatures ; but a practical esteem is , when the acts of our souls towards him are suitable to the apprehensions we have in our minds concerning him . when we adore his infinite perfections , and delight in the meditation of them ; when we desire to do all things pleasing to him , and avoid what we know to offend him ; when we believe , and hope , and trust in him , and commit our selves to his conduct in this world , in hopes of being happy with him in another . this is the love of god above all things ; but alas ! where is this love of god to be found ? it is no very hard matter to work up a heated and devout imagination to the fancy of raptures and ecstasies and mystical unions ; but after all , this is the love of god , that we keep his commandments . as the true love of a prince is not to flatter and admire him , and watch for his smiles ; but to observe his directions , and obey his orders , and to do what is most for his service . and although such a love of god be hard to those whose hearts are full of carnal affections , and are taken up with the follies and vanities of this world , yet we cannot take one true step in the way to heaven without the love of god. for even those who have most corrupted the doctrine of repentance do confess , that there can be no true contrition for sin , which is not founded on the love of god as the principle of it , and however they have dangerously flattered and deceived those who are so weak to believe them , that attrition with the sacrament of penance is sufficient to put men into the state of grace ; yet st. peter's keys must have an extraordinary virtue , if they can change nature into grace , or fear into love , or mere horrour of conscience into true repentance . but although such a love of god above all things be so hard a thing to minds prepossessed with the love of other things ; yet no one can deny that it is the most reasonable duty in the world. the very thoughts of god , if they are such as we ought to have , imply , that he is the best , the wisest , the most perfect being , and therefore the most amiable and desirable object . and whither then should the most natural stream of our affections run , but towards him ? what do we mean to suffer so much earth and filthiness to obstruct the free passage of them in their most proper course ? what can we meet with in this deceitfull world , that can bear the least proportion to such infinite goodness ? oh what a difference is there between our reason and our love ? we verily believe that god deserves our love above all things , and yet how small a share hath he in it ? we love what we profess to despise above all things , viz. our sins and this vain world ; and we really too much despise what we still profess to love above all things , viz. god and our eternal happiness . o miserable condition of humanity ! made to be happy , and yet fond of misery ; loving what 's vain , and yet despising vanity ; hating what 's good , and yet accounts it best ; and therefore fittest for our choice and love. the love of god above all things is so just and reasonable , that those who do it least approve it as the most excellent imployment of our minds ; and those that do it most , think they fall short of what god deserves from them . the more we know of god , the more we know that we ought to love and delight in him ; and all our difficulty in the practice of it can never make us think it is unreasonable to love him above all things , without whom nothing can make us happy , and who alone can do it . ( . ) universal holiness of heart and life . if this were not necessary to salvation , our apostle would not have pressed it with so much earnestness as he doth ; as obedient children , not fashioning your selves according to the former lusts in your ignorance , but as he which hath called you is holy , so be ye holy in all manner of conversation ; because it is written , be ye holy , for i am holy . again , dearly beloved , i beseech you , as strangers and pilgrims , abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul. and again , that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh , to the lusts of men , but to the will of god. this is a hard saying to mankind , who part with nothing so hardly as with their sins ; yet these must be parted with , if ever we hope to get to heaven . i do not say , that a perfection in holiness is required , ( for that were to suppose happiness in this world , since there can be no perfect holiness without it , ) but there must be a constant , uniform , and sincere endeavour after it ; by avoiding all known and wilfull sins , and doing all our duties to god in such a manner as our conscience cannot charge us with gross neglect or insincerity . there are some things we cannot say are down-right sins ; yet if they lead to them ; if they indispose our minds to god , and his service ; if they tend to lightness and vanity , and make us more easie to entertain the devil's temptations , we ought to avoid them as the snares of the devil . so , on the other side , there are some things which we cannot say are plain , and express , and necessary duties of religion , yet they tend so much to keep up the life and spirit of it , that a general design of holiness is enough to recommend them . as to positive duties of religion , we cannot exactly fix the time , and measure , and season of their performance , which must vary according to circumstances ; but this we can say , that the more persons set themselves to the practice of holiness , and the greater preparation they make for another world , the more they will delight in the performance of god's service , and the more ready to embrace any opportunities for it . those who would have all religious duties determined as to the circumstances of them , are like men who would have punctual rules set down , how often two friends should converse with each other , and how long time they are to stay together . true friendship will need none of those things , but will incline them to embrace the best opportunities for mutual conversation , lest too long distance beget a coldness first , and then the friendship dissolves . it is no hard matter to pray as far as words go ; but to pray with zeal and devotion , to attend upon god with that seriousness of mind we ought to do , will require our utmost attention . and it is no easie matter to keep our minds composed and fit to converse with god in prayer , and other solemn duties of religion . but as hard as this appears to us , it is most fit and reasonable that we should do it : for what an unbecoming thing it is to worship god in a careless , trifling , perfunctory manner ; as though nothing less deserved the imploying the vigour of our minds about , than the service of god. but how can we love him with all our hearts , if we do not serve him with all our minds and strength . ( . ) resignation of our selves to god. this the apostle calls casting all our care upon him . this is a very wise duty if we can attain to it , because it eases our minds of many fears and perplexities , both as to our selves and others : but it is no easie thing to set our minds free from solicitous thoughts , about possible evils . we cannot mend our condition , nor prevent what is determined by our most anxious care ; but we may enjoy our selves with far greater peace and tranquillity , if we can be content to commit our selves to the best conduct , and that is of him that governs the world. and whatever strugglings we may find within our selves about it , yet the more we search , and weigh , and consider things , the more we shall be satisfied , that the resignation of our selves to god , as to all our concernments in this world , is the best means to calm our passions , and to abate our fears , to prevent our impatience , and so to attain to that ornament of a meek and quiet spirit , which is with god of great price . but if all these duties be so necessary to our being saved , and we lie under such difficulties as to the performance of them , their appearing to be reasonable makes our condition so much worse : for to find it so hard to do what we are convinced is most reasonable to be done , is one of the worst circumstances of our condition . it 's true we do not want faculties of understanding and will ; but what then , if our moral indispositions make these useless to our spiritual advantage ? a man that is like to be stifled in a large vessel full of downy feathers , canno● complain of the hardness of what he lies upon , for all things feel soft and easie about him , yet he may be stifled with them ; our evil habits , and corrupt inclinations , have nothing that feels hard or troublesome to us ; but if we cannot overcome them , they will certainly ruine and destroy us . there is therefore a necessity of a higher principle of divine grace to enable us to break through all these difficulties . which grace is so abundantly promised by the gospel to those who seek it , that it comes at last to be our own fault , if we be not saved . ii. and this helps us to reconcile the difficulty of salvation , with the easiness of the terms of the gospel : for that which is not only hard , but impossible to us , in our own strength , may , by the mighty power of divine grace , become not only possible but easie to us : and withall those things are accounted easie which bring ease , and that is a light burthen which rids one of a far harder . and thus the commands of christ , however hard in themselves to us , yet being considered with the grace of the gospel , and the blessed effect of inward peace , which follows sincere obedience , even his yoke , which keeps us most in , may be said to be easie , and his burthen , which sits hardest upon us , may be said to be light . iii. and from hence we see what encouragement there is still for us to hope to be saved , if we be righteous . there is none for the ungodly and sinner ; i. e. for the profane contemner of god and religion , or for the wicked liver . for however they may flatter themselves with vain and presumptuous hopes , there is no more ground to think that the righteous shall be saved , than that the ungodly and sinner shall not . for both are alike made known by the same word of god. but what comfort is it ( may some say ) to hear that the righteous are scarcely saved , when we are so conscious to our selves of our own unrighteousness ? if we could think our selves righteous before god , there were some hopes , but we are sinners ; and if we should deny or excuse it , we should be so much more so ; what hope can there be then for us ? to this i shall answer , and conclude . ( . ) the righteous here spoken of were once great sinners ; for st. peter mentions their former lusts , and working the will of the gentiles in lasciviousness , lusts , excess of wine , revellings , banquetings , and abominable idolatries . yet these are said , to be redeemed from their vain conversation by the precious blood of christ ; and to be begotten again to a lively hope of an inheritance incorruptible , &c. there is therefore , not merely a possibility of being saved , but a just and grounded hope , if we renounce our former sins , and become righteous , according to the terms of the gospel ; i. e. if we sincerely repent of our sins , and turn from them , and live the rest of our time , not to the lusts of men , but to the will of god. but if god had declared , that he expected from mankind an entire and perfect righteousness without any sin , it were all one , as to publish a general and irreversible decree of damnation to all , for all have sinned and come short of the glory of god. from whence the apostle well argues , that men cannot save themselves : but god of his infinite pity and mercy towards the deplorable condition of mankind , hath found out a way to save them , by the redemption which is in christ jesus , whom he hath made a propitiation for their sins . although therefore as to our selves we have no hopes , yet herein god hath magnified his abundant love towards sinners , that although they have sinned to a high degree , yet if they be so far wearied with the burthen of their sins , as to take christ's yoke upon them , then he hath promised ease and rest to their souls , which is the greatest blessing in the world , especially to repenting sinners . but ( some may again say ) we have repented and sinned , and sinned and repented again , and can hardly yet tell which will get the better at last ; we cannot say that we have entirely submitted our necks to christ's yoke , for that requires a great deal more than we can perform ; how then can we be thought righteous ? i answer therefore , ( . ) where there is a sincere and honest endeavour to please god , and keep his commandments , although persons fail in the manner of doing it , god will accept of such as righteous : but where they please themselves in their unrighteousness , and go on in it , hoping that god will accept some kind of repentance in stead of it ; or , where there hath been long struggling , and many acts of repentance , and the interest of sin prevails ; the case of such is very dangerous , but not desperate . for as long as there is hopes of a true repentance , there is of salvation ; and there is still hopes of repentance where men's hearts are not hardned by an incorrigible stiffness : for , according to the best measures we can take by the rules of the gospel , none are effectually excluded from the hopes of salvation , but such as exclude themselves by their own impenitency . sermon iv. preached before the king and queen at white-hall , march the d , / . ecclesiastes xi . . rejoyce , o young man , in thy youth , and let thy heart chear thee in the days of thy youth , and walk in the ways of thy heart , and in the sight of thine eyes ; but know thou , that for all these things god will bring thee into judgment . if solomon had said , rejoyce not , o young man , in thy youth , neither let thy heart chear thee in the days of thy youth ; walk not in the way of thine heart , nor in the sight of thine eyes ; for know thou , that for all these things god will bring thee into judgment , the sense had been so easie and plain , that there had been no appearance of difficulty in reconciling one part with the other : for the whole had been look'd upon but as a necessary and seasonable admonition to such who by the heats of youth , and strength of inclination , and allurements of the world , are too apt to be transported with the love of sensual pleasures . and this had been very becoming the wise man towards the conclusion of his book , wherein he had not only before set forth the several vanities of humane life ; but so soon after , bids men remember their creatour in the days of their youth , while the evil days come not , nor the years draw nigh of which they shall say they have no pleasure in them , i. e. in the days wherein they are most apt to walk in the way of their hearts , and in the sight of their eyes . for he knew very well , that nothing is so powerfull a check and restraint upon men's inclinations to sin , as the serious consideration of that god that gave them their beings , and will bring them to an account for their actions . but how then comes he in this verse to seem rather to give a permission to young men in the time of youth to indulge themselves in their mirth and vanity ? rejoyce , o young man , in thy youth , &c. some think that the wise man only derides and exposes them for their folly in so doing ; but that seems not agreeable with the grave and serious advice which follows . and we find nothing like irony ; or sarcasm in any part of the foregoing book ; for he begins it with a tragical exclamation against the vanities of humane life ; vanity of vanities , saith the preacher , vanity of vanities : all is vanity . and he pursues his argument by a particular induction of the most tempting and pleasing vanities of life ; and particularly all sorts of sensual delights ; as mirth and jollity in the first place , then wine and musick , fine palaces , curious vineyards , gardens and pools , a great retinue , and , which was needfull to maintain all this , abundance of silver and gold. but what a melancholy reflection doth he make on all these pleasures of life ? then i looked on all the works that my hands had wrought , and on the labour that i had laboured to do ; and behold all was vanity and vexation of spirit . what incouragement then could the wise-man , after so much experience of the world , give to young men here in the text , to rejoyce in the days of their youth , and to walk in the way of their hearts , and in the sight of their eyes ? i. e. to pursue vanity , and to lay the foundation for greater vexation of spirit , when they come to reflect on their own follies . what then is the meaning of these words ? for this , we are to observe , that the preacher having declared his own main scope and design in the beginning and conclusion of his book , brings in sometimes the different senses which mankind are apt to have concerning the happiness of life . and that is the reason that we meet with such different expressions concerning it . in one place it is said , that there is no better thing under the sun , than to eat and drink , and to be merry ; but in another , he saith , sorrow is better than laughter , and by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better . in one place he saith , all things come alike to all , there is one event to the righteous and to the wicked : but in another , that it shall be well with them that fear the lord , but it shall not be well with the wicked . how can such passages as these be reconciled , if we look on them as expressing the sense of the same person ? but if we allow them to be the different notions of two sorts of men in this world , they are easie to be understood , although not to be reconciled . and the one sort is of those who place all happiness in this life , without regard to religion or vertue , or another world ; and the other of those , who look on this life only as a passage to another ; and that all persons ought to behave themselves here , so as conduces most to their happiness hereafter . and according to these different schemes , we have in the words of the text two very different sorts of counsel and advice to young men. i. the first proceeds upon the supposition that all the happiness of man lies in this life , and in the enjoyment of the sensual pleasures of it ; rejoyce , o young man , in thy youth , and let thy heart chear thee in the days of thy youth ; and walk in the way of thy heart , and in the sight of thy eyes . we have no other rule here given but the sight of the eye , and the way of the heart ; i. e. outward appearance and inward inclination ; and these are the beloved rules of the most sensual and voluptuous persons , and they judge of happiness only by the pursuit of them . here is nothing mention'd of reason or conscience , or a regard to vertue in the restraint of natural inclinations : nay , here is nothing of that severity which epicurus himself thought necessary towards the maintaining of a pleasant state of life ; which he granted could never be done without some restraint of men's appetites and inclinations to the pleasures of sense ; and it is not to be imagined , that solomon should give young men greater liberty than the corruptest moralists did . therefore i cannot look upon these words as a permission for them to do what is here expressed ; but as a full description of that method of living , which the jolly and voluptuous corrupters of youth would instruct them in , rejoyce , o young man , in thy youth , and let thine heart chear thee , &c. ii. we have here the most powerfull check and restraint laid upon all these sensual inclinations of youth . but know thou that for all these things god will bring thee to judgment . which words are the wise man's correction of the foregoing liberty , or the curb which reason and religion give to the pursuit of natural inclinations , wherein every word hath its force , and ought to make a deep impression upon us ; for , ( . ) know thou : thine is not then the same cafe with creatures that have no understanding ; they are not capable of any check from themselves , having no law of reason or conscience within them to controul or govern the● sensual desires ; but god hath given thee not meerly a brutal appetite , but a rational soul , capable of understanding the differences of good and evil , and the reasons why some things which appear pleasant are very difagreeing to the principles of humane nature ; i. e. to that order , decency , modesty , and regularity , which the more elevated frame and capacity of mankind do require . ( . ) for all these things ; as light and vain as you esteem them , as soon as they are over and forgotten by you , as secretly and closely as they are committed , as much as you endeavour to palliate and excuse them , yet but for all these things god will certainly bring thee into judgment . therefore you have all the reason in the world to consider what you do , since every thing will be brought to judgment , whether it be good or evil , as solomon concludes this book . which shews the great regard god hath to the good or evil of ou● actions ; and if the great judge of the world hath so , certainly we ought to have it , and never think our selves at liberty to do what we please , in gratifying our lusts , and pursuing our natural inclinations to evil. ( ) god will do it . if there were no god to call thee to an account , yet there are some actions of vertue so agreeable to mankind , and some vices ●o loathsome and deformed , that there would be sufficient cause for them to love the one and to abhorr the other . if we could suppose such a frame of things things and such sorts of beings as we now see , and no god to make them , ( which is most absurd and unreasonable , ) yet we must suppose these beings to have natures and properties distinct from each other ; so that we could not imagine men to become beasts , and therefore they must not act like them , but preserve that decorum or agreeableness in their actions which is suitable to the peculiar excellencies of humane nature . and there are some sins so much below the dignity thereof , that no circumstances , no suppositions , can make them fitting for mankind to commit them ; which shews that the nature of good and evil is no arbitrary thing , but is founded in the very frame of our beings , and in the respects we owe to our selves and to one another . and since there is an infinite and supreme being which hath absolute power and command over us , and gives us both our beings and the comforts of our lives , it is most absurd to suppose it not to be a fault to hate his goodness , or to despise his mercy ; or to slight his power , and to contemn his authority : for in all these there is something repugnant to the common sense of mankind , and to all principles of true honour and justice . and there are such common principles of morality arising from our necessary relation to god and each other , which are of so clear and convincing evidence , that every one that considers them will grant that wicked men may as well go about to dispute their beings as their sins ; and may as easily prove that they are not , but only appear to be , as that no actions are really evil , but only by false glasses appear so to be . but however vain men may deceive themselves , god will not be mocked ; for he not only sees and knows all our actions , but he will bring us to an account for them . ( . ) god will bring thee into judgment . it is a dreadfull consideration to a sinner , that god knows all his false steps , all his secret sins , all his falshood and dissimulation with god and men : and there is nothing which men of art and design hate more , than to be discover'd and found out in all their double and deceitfull dealings ; but to have these not only privately discover'd , but exposed and laid open to the view of the world ; and not only so , but to have every circumstance examin'd , and every action scanned , and that by the great judge of all the world , whom nothing can escape , nothing can deceive , nothing can withstand ; whose justice is inflexible , whose knowledge is incomprehensible , whose power is irresistible , and whose vengeance is insuppo●table : this we cannot but imagine must strike an awe and terrour into the minds of men , when they are pursuing the pleasures of sin , that for all these things god will bring them into judgment . but notwithstanding these and many other expressions to the same purpose in scripture , wherein god hath declared that he will certainly judge the world in righteousness at the great day ; that the secrets of all hearts shall then be disclosed ; that we must all appear before the judgment-seat of christ ; and that god will render to every man according to his deeds : and notwithstanding it is a thing in it self very reasonable , from the consideration of god's justice and providence , and the nature and consequences of good and evil actions ; yet the generality of mankind go on as secure and careless as if there were no such thing , or that they ought not to be concerned about it . therefore i shall not spend time in the proof of that which i take for granted you all believe , and i am sure have reason so to do ; but i shall enquire into these things which are most practical and therefore proper for our consideration at this time. ( . ) how a matter of so great importance as a judgment to come makes so little impression on the minds of the generality of mankind , who profess to believe it . ( . ) by what means the consideration of a future judgment may have a greater influence on all our minds . ( . ) how a thing of so great importance as god's bringing us into judgment comes to make so little impression on the minds of the generality of those who profess to believe it , when we are so tender and sensible of small things with respect to this world. for resolving this , we must consider , that there is a great difference between the not-disbelieving doctrinal points of faith , and the practical improvement of them in our minds ; without which , they remain there but as general and confused notions . thus too many who abhorr being thought atheists , live as if there were no god ; not , that they deny or dispute his being or attributes , but they have no regard to them in the last dictates of their minds , or in the course of their actions . to go about to prove such things to be true they look on as lost labour , for they do not question them ; but there is another thing then which we are to give an account of , viz. how it comes to pass that so great and so weighty doctrines , being received and allowed to be true , make so little impression on the generality of mankind ; especially this of the day of judgment ; of which these seem to be the main reasons . ( . ) men's impatience of considering great and weighty things at a distance , which cannot affect and move our senses . ( . ) the bewitching and stupifying nature of present and sensual pleasures ; which draw off the mind from greater things , and weaken all the impressions they make upon us . ( . ) a general presumption upon god's mercy towards mankind on the account of the frailty of humane nature , notwithstanding the severity of his threatnings in scripture . ( . ) i begin with men's impatience of considering . we flatter and please our selves with the thoughts that we are intelligent and considering beings , when , it may be , considering ( especially as to matters of greatest consequence ) is one of the things which mankind have the greatest aversion to . for generally , they love to go no farther than the outsides and appearances of things , and have their minds wholly possessed with false and flattering imaginations , having neither truth nor consistency in them . and those who account themselves of better breeding than others , are often more imposed upon than others in this way . the pomp and grandeur of the world , the gaity and splendour of living strikes their fancies with such vehement impressions , that scarce any thing else gets into their minds , or sinks deep into them . there are many other things that seem to stand fair in their opinion at some times , but it is as they are thought serviceable to worldly greatness and honour . this , after all the instructions of philosophers , the declamations of heathen and christian orators , and the far more powerfull arguments of the wisest and best of men , recorded in holy scripture , is still the great idol of mankind , which they serve and worship with the truest and warmest devotion . all other things , how great and weighty soever in themselves , yet are really look'd on by them as a sort of metaphysical abstracted notions of things invisible and immaterial , quite out of the reach of their imagination , which may serve for the amusement of some , and the affrightment of others , and the entertainment of speculative minds ; but , how to raise themselves in the world , to appear great , and have many dependents ; to pursue and carry on their own interest ( tho' without regard to justice and honesty ) these they account great and noble things , and fit to employ their minds upon . but alas ! how much are such imposed upon by meer shews and appearances of things , which are really what god made them , but are not what we fansie them to be ! there are , no doubt , real conveniencies of life in riches , and honour , and ease , and plenty , or else they could never be esteemed blessings , nor could we have reason to thank god for them ; but there is a great difference between the fitness of things for our present use , and for our happiness ; i. e. when we make them our end , and do not employ them in order to a farther end. but it is good advice of st. paul , using the world as not abusing it ; for the fashion of this world passeth away : it passes like a ship under sail , while the generality of mankind , like passengers , lie asleep in it . sometimes when sto●ms arise , or waves cross them , they seem to be awake , and to look about them , and to think whither they are going ; but those thoughts being uneasie to them , they lie down again , and are carried they know not whither . but still it is but the fashion of this world ; a meer landskip , wherein there is great variety but little satisfaction , the shew far out-doing the substance . when the devil shewed christ the kingdoms of the world , and the glory of them , the highest mountain could afford but a small prospect of them , but as some think he caused a representation in the air of the most tempting splendour and glories of them . and this was the truest representation of them , by glorious appearances and bewitching shews . but unless there be something in humane nature which makes it very apt to be deceived by such things , it were strange the devil should think to prevail on our saviour by them . we pity those who travelling in the night are deceived by false fires and shining meteors , and follow them into bogs and precipices ; but the case of such is so much worse who are deluded by the deceitfull vanities of this world to their own destruction . and can there be any greater argument of the want of consideration , than for persons to suffer themselves to be so easily and so fatally cheated ? it is a wise observation of aristotle , that true knowledge and wisdom lies most in settling and fixing the mind . for it is not the subtlety and fineness of thoughts , not the quickness and sharpness of apprehension , nor the close and mathematical deductions of reason which make a wise man , but the having a calm and composed temper of mind , the subduing our passions , and governing our actions with respect to our chief end. and in order to this , consideration is absolutely necessary ; without which that which is nearest to us , and offers it self first to our choice , must prevail upon us . and here lies the main difficulty to perswade mankind to choose a far greater happiness at a distance and invisible , before a present enjoyment of things we are constantly conversant with , and have made an early impression upon us . but still we say , that it is nothing but men's impatience of considering , which makes them have so little regard to another life . for if they would but lay both worlds in the balance one against the other , they would soon discover the wonderfull folly of preferring that which this world accounts happiness before that which is offered to our choice in another . for let us make all the fair and reasonable allowances that may be , as to our inclinations , and appetites , and circumstances in this world ; as to the distance , obscurity , incomprehensibleness of the joys of another world ; yet every considering man that regards true happiness will be sure to chuse that which is to come . for , ( . ) supposing the happiness were equal , yet there is no proportion in the continuance of them ; and a considering man will be sure to choose a happiness that can never have an end , before one that may be irrecoverably lost in a moment ; and can certainly be enjoyed but for a little time , if there were any certainty at all in the enjoyment of it . ( . ) the more any have considered , the more they have repented placing too much of their happiness here , because reason and experience shews them the folly of it . but the more they have considered , the better satisfied the minds of good men are in placing their happiness above ; where alone that good is to be sound which can make us truly happy , and is to be enjoyed in that fulness , that purity , that certainty which makes it fit for the wisest and most considering men to preferr above a present happiness , if it were to be enjoyed on earth . ( . ) he that looks after a future happiness doth not thereby lose any of the real conveniencies of humane life ; but he that places his happiness here , cannot find it in this world , and is sure to be miserable in another : and this makes a very considerable difference in the choice . indeed , if god made it absolutely necessary in order to future happiness for us to forego all the natural pleasures and innocent delights of this life , the terms would be much harder , and hardly possible to humane nature . for , if all pleasures of sense must be renounced , we must not see the pleasing varieties of nature , nor hear the melodious sound of birds , nor taste the meat when we are hungry , nor drink when we are thirsty ; for there is really greater pleasure of sense when nature craves necessary sustenance , than what the most voluptuous epicurean enjoys in all his contrivances , first to raise his appetite , and then to please it : for what is most natural and necessary is the most delightfull ; every thing of force must have something uneasie in it . but god hath not dealt thus hardly with mankind ; he allows us all the reasonable desires of nature , and hath only forbid us what is unreasonable and unnecessary . and upon the forbearance of what is so , joyned with our entire dependence upon himself for it , ( which the scripture calls faith working by love , ) he hath made the gracious offer of eternal happiness . it is true , in extraordinary cases of persecution he requires more , but then he proposes extraordinary rewards to make abundant recompence for them ; but in the common and ordinary case of mankind , he requires no more than our avoiding those excesses in pleasing our appetites which nature and reason condemn . and those who consider , cannot but see how unreasonable it is to place their happiness in forbidden pleasures ; and to think that nothing can make them happy , but what god hath declared shall make them miserable . it is a strange crossness in our desires , if nothing can please them but what displeases god. it were no hard task to shew , that god forbids nothing but what is really repugnant to our well-being here ; and how then can any such thing as happiness be hoped for in such things ? and when a man ventures being miserable for ever , for what can never make him happy here , if he had his full liberty to pursue his desires ; he shews how far he is from acting like a wise , rational , considering being . so that impatience of considering is one great reason why the thoughts of a judgment to come make so little impression on men's minds . ( . ) the second reason is the bewitching and stupifying nature of sensual pleasures . the epicurean philosophers , who managed the theory of pleasure with the greatest art , so as it might look like a proper happiness for mankind , found two things absolutely necessary in order to it . ( . ) the retrenching all inordinate desires , viz. such as had more pain following them , than there was pleasure in the enjoyment of them . ( . ) the removing the fears of another world out of men's minds . for as long as these sunk into their minds , they must rob them of that inward tranquillity , without which it were a vain thing so much as to talk of happiness . but it was impossible , upon their grounds , to do either of these . for , ( . ) it is unreasonable to suppose that the happiness of our present life should consist in the enjoyment of pleasure , and yet the pleasure of opinion to be taken away , since the pleasure of opinion is the far greatest part of the pleasure of life ; and that which is as much valued and esteemed by a●l those who place their happiness in pleasure . if it were all to be reduced to that which lies in satisfying the necessary desires of nature , then such as have just enough for that , are far more happy than the rich and voluptuous , because they have less pains and care. but if any allowance be made to the pleasure of fancy and opinion , then no stop can be given to inordinate desires . for , who can set bounds to fancy , or lay a reasonable restraint upon desires , if the differences of good and evil be taken away ? as they must be , if meer pleasure and pain be to be regarded in our actions . ( . ) as to the other , the methods they used to remove all fears of another world were weak and trifling , and they had no advantage in point of argument , but what the ignorance and folly of the idolatrous part of mankind at that time gave them . but there is a far greater advantage in point of interest , which makes men of sensual lives very willing to be rid of the fears of another life . and a willing mind goes a great way in believing or not believing . those who place their happiness in eating and drinking well ( as they call it ) and other sensual delights , which can never be enjoyed when this life is ended , have but a melancholy prospect into another world ; for they are shut out from the very possibility of being happy in their own sense , ( unless they would believe the eastern impostour ; ) but when they once come to apprehend that there is no pleasure to make them happy but what is seated in the body , they are apt to conclude that when that dies , there is an end of all , for their imaginations can reach no farther . and the true reason is , they have laid reason and conscience asleep so long , that it is very hard to awaken them ; their notions of good and evil are like the confused apprehensions of men half awake ; they see enough to perplex but not enough to satisfie them . and when their fears grow upon them , they have not the heart and courage to examine them , whether they be reasonable or not ; but rather choose to return to their former opiates , than undergo the trouble of an effectual cure by a hearty repentance and coming to themselves , as the prodigal son in the parable did , when his hardship had brought him to consideration . we do not know what had become of him , if he had been wise and frugal in his pleasures ; if he had taken care of a good stock and a plentifull subsistence ; but he first came to be pinched with want , before he was awakened to repent . but we have in scripture a more remarkable instance of the stupifying nature of sensual pleasures ; and that was in david after his sins of adultery and murther . it is a wonder , how a man of such a tender conscience in other things , should continue so long under the guilt of these enormities , without being awakened to repentance : did he not know these to be great sins ? and did not his conscience charge him with the guilt of them ? how came he then to need a prophet to be sent to him , and to deal so plainly with him , as to tell him thou art the man ? but this is a plain evidence , how much the pleasures of sin are apt to stupifie men's consciences so far , that unless god by his grace be pleased to awaken them thoroughly , they never come to a sincere and hearty repentance . david saw nothing more as to the guilt of his sins , when he penn'd his st psalm , than his own reason and natural conscience might inform him before ; but he had quite another sense of his sins then ; his heart was broken and his soul wounded under the apprehension of god's displeasure ; and this makes him pray so earnestly and so importunately to god for the pardon of his sins . and if it were thus in the case of a man otherwise after god's own heart , i. e. afraid of offending him , and carefull to please him ; what may we imagine it to be in those who in the time of youth walk in the way of their hearts , and in the sight of their eyes : i. e. allowing themselves in all sensual inclinations , and pursuing carnal delights so far till they have lost all sense of god and another world ; and such as these , nothing but the powerfull influences of divine grace can awaken and recover . ( . ) the third reason is , a general presumption upon god's mercy . the first thing which sinners , in the heat of their youth , and pursuit of their lusts , aim at , is to think as little as may be of what they are doing , or what will be the consequence of their actions . for every thought of themselves is very uneasie to them , and every thought of god is much more so ; therefore they drive away all such thoughts by one means or other , by sleep , diversion , company , and such publick entertainments , as rather heighten and inflame their vices than correct them . if all this will not do , but there will be some melancholy hours , wherein conscience begins to rouze it self , and to awaken the sinner to some sense of his folly ; then he is ready to hearken with pleasure to any raileries against religion and morality ; and admires the wit of any one who dares say a bold and sharp thing against the wisdom of all ages , and of the best men in them . and one or two such sayings , without proof , are cried up as far beyond the best rules of morality , or the evidence of natural and revealed religion . any sceptical disputes are sufficient demonstrations to them ; and the most unreasonable cavils against religion are embraced , because against the thing they hate ; and even a jest against the day of judgment shall signifie more with them , than the strongest arguments in the world to prove it . the true reason is , they love their vices , and hate every thing which makes them uneasie to them ; and nothing doth more so , than the thoughts of a judgment to come . but suppose after all , the terrible and frequent expressions of scripture concerning the day of judgment , joyned with the reasonableness of the thing , do make such impression on their minds that they cannot wholly shake off the fears and apprehensions of it , then their last endeavour is to mitigate and lessen them , from a general presumption of god's mercifull nature ; and therefore they are willing to suppose , that however god , to keep the world in awe , hath threatned them with the dreadfull severities of the great day , yet as a tender father who threatens his disobedient son , in order to reclaim him , with no less than disinheriting him for ever ; yet when it comes to execution he may relent , not from his son's deserts , but his own compassion ; so they hope , or believe , ( or are willing to do so ) that god at the great day will not proceed according to the rigour which he hath threatned to use . and to comfort themselves in these hopes they find out all possible extenuations of their sins : if we , say they , had been created purely intellectual beings , free from this load of flesh , and the inclinations which are natural to it , then it had been more reasonable to have called us to a strict account for every action of our lives ; for then every inclination to evil must have come from our minds ; but now our bodies corrupt and draw them aside ; and the inclinations to evil grow faster than our reason , which should check and restrain them . and when those inclinations are strongest , men have not that judgment which is necessary to the government of unruly passions . so that the very frame of humane nature seems to plead for sins committed in the heat and violence of youth . besides , such is the strictness and purity of the law of god , and so great the weakness and disability , the ignorance and inadvertency of mankind , that if god will make no allowance for humane frailty , who can stand before his tribunal ? and , if any allowance be made for sins of infirmity , there are so many abatements to be made for sins committed through sudden passion , through mistake , through the unavoidable impotency of humane nature in this degenerate condition , that the severity of that day is not much to be feared . this is the utmost of the sinner's plea against the severity of the day of judgment : but , to shew how faulty it is , i shall offer these considerations ; . that god will certainly judge the world in righteousness ; and therefore none shall have cause to complain of the harshness or severity of his proceedings . for , this righteousness is not the rigour of justice , but that equity which hath a regard to the circumstances of actions , and the abatement and extenuation of faults which arise from them . . none shall suffer at that day , but for their wilfull impenitency , and obstinate continuance in sin. for , this is not only agreeable to the mercifull nature of god , to forgive repenting sinners ; but it is one of the great designs of the gospel to assure mankind of it by the highest testimonies , even by the death and resurrection of the son of god , and all the miracles wrought in confirmation of it , and of the truth of his doctrine . . there are several degrees of wilfulness and obstinacy , and men's judgments shall be according to them . some men's capacities , opportunities and helps have very much exceeded others ; some have broken through stronger convictions and more powerfull assistances of grace than others ; some have had more early instructions , more frequent warnings , more obliging favours from heaven than others . and as it is reasonable that persons suffer for their obstinate continuance in sin , so that they should suffer according to the degrees and circumstances of it . ( . ) it is no unjust severity in god , to deprive men of that happiness which they have wilfully refused ; and to condemn them to that misery which their sins have deserved . hath not god made the most condescending offer of mercy and salvation , that it is possible for creatures to expect from him , after so many and great provocations ? could heaven stoop lower than it hath done to vile and ungratefull sinners ? when the son of god came down from heaven on purpose to reconcile god and man together : when the spirit of god warns and excites their minds to the consideration of their eternal welfare : when the messengers of this reconciliation are to woo and intreat and beseech sinners in christ's stead , as tho' god did beseech them by them , that they would be reconciled to god ; when the patience and goodness and long suffering of god is exercised so much on purpose to lead them to repentance ; when god instead of perfect obedience , is willing to pardon and pass by so many offences , if they truly repent of them , and to receive them still into his favour and mercy ; when after all this men do rather preferr the present pleasures of sin , before all that happiness which god so freely offers , is it any injustice in him to suffer them for ever to be deprived of that which they so wilfully , so ungratefully , so obstinately refused ? and supposing the souls of men to subsist in another world free from all those clouds of errour and mistake , and the false notions they are deceived by here , as well as all the diversions and pleasures of this life , it is not to be imagined , but they must for ever suffer an intolerable anguish within ( called , a worm that never dies , and a fire that never goes out , ) from the reflections upon their own folly. what vengeance beyond this god may inflict , we now know not , ( may none of us ever know it ! ) but we are sure it will never exceed the proportion and desert of their sins . which is sufficient to clear the justice of god in his proceedings with mankind in the day of judgment . . it remains now only to shew by what means god's bringing us to judgment may make a deeper impression upon our minds ; by considering these two things : . that our not considering it will not make our condition better , but much worse . . that our considering it is the best means to prevent the evil consequences of it . ( . ) our not considering it will not make our conditon better . there were great reason indeed to walk in the way of our hearts , and in the sight of our eyes , and never trouble our selves with what will happen at the great day , if the putting it out of our heads would make our accounts the easier when it comes . but alas ! whether we think of it or no , the account runs on , and we must answer to every particular at last ; and how unprovided shall we be , if we spend no time here in examining , stating and clearing of them as far as we are able . it is a mighty privilege we have by the gospel , that god allows us to clear our accounts with him in this world ; for , if we would judge our selves we shall not be judged . i. e. if we call our selves to a strict account for our actions ; if we repent heartily and sincerely of our sins ; if we seek earnestly to god for mercy ; if we have our consciences cleansed by the blood of christ from the pollution of our sins , then we may with joy and peace in our minds think of the great day of recompence . but if we never enter into our selves , to search and examine our own actions , never look into the habits of our own minds , nor charge our selves with the guilt of the sins we have committed , how can we ever hope to escape the scrutiny or avoid the severity of that day ? for our account continually increases by our neglect of it , and the burthen of god's wrath must be so much heavier when we have taken no care to lessen it , but after our hardness and impenitent hearts have only treasured up wrath against the day of wrath . ( . ) our considering that god will bring us to judgment is the best means to prevent the evil consequences of it . for , although we cannot hope to plead innocency ; yet , ( which is next in point of wisdom ) this is the most effectual motive to bring us to repentance : and that which makes us repent makes us to grow wise in time , and to lay a good foundation for eternal life . there are many arguments to induce us to it in the folly and shame of our sins ; the wisdom of reflection and reformation ; the instances of it and exhortations to it recorded in scripture ; but there is none more sensible and which touches men more in point of interest and concernment than this of a judgment to come . must i then , saith a penitent sinner , give a strict account to god of all the evil actions of my life , and suffer according to the desert of them if i die in impenitency ? how much doth it then concern me to repent betimes , to repent in good earnest , to repent while there is hopes of mercy ! away then all ye deceitfull vanities of this wicked world , ye have too long deceived and seduced me : what will all this vain shew , this busie seducer , this impertinent outside of the world signifie , when i must be stript of all , and stand guilty and accused by my own conscience before the judgment-seat of christ ? oh! how wretched shall i be , if my conscience condemns me before the sentence of the judge ! therefore , i am resolved to prevent the judgment of that day ; i will accuse , judge , and condemn my self ; nay , i will proceed to execution , as to all the vitious habits and corrupt inclinations within me . and although i cannot wholly mortifie them , yet i will crucifie them ; i. e. nail them to the cross , and allow them no longer liberty ; and albeit they may struggle for a time , yet i will never give way to their dominion over me any more ; that so death and judgment may find me prepared , if not with unspotted innocency , yet with hearty and sincere repentance . to conclude all ; let the consideration of this day of judgment to come enter deep into our minds , and awaken us out of our lethargy and security . we are very apt to put off unpleasing things from time to time , and to pass away our time here as easily as may be . but this is no part of wisdom , and we shall extremely blame our selves for it one time or other . the best we can do now , is to recover what is past by repentance , and to set our selves to the making up our accounts with god in this world : for , we are all walking on the brink of eternity , and know not how soon we may drop into it . but what eternal horrour and confusion must follow us , if we go on to slight the opportunities he still affords us of making our peace with him who is to be our judge ? may god therefore of his mercy awaken us all to a timely and serious repentance , and then our iniquities shall not be our ruine . sermon v. preached at the assizes at worcester , sept. the st , . timothy . . for god hath not given us the spirit of fear , but of power , and of love and of a sound mind . if we look into the scope and design of this epistle , we shall find st. paul at the time of writing it , under more than ordinary apprehensions of the sad condition of the christian church . as to himself , he had great satisfaction in the particular care of divine providence towards him : for , god had not only formerly delivered him out of many persecutions ; but had lately rescued him out of the mouth of the lion , i. e. from a great and imminent danger . and though he foresaw , that the time of his departure was at hand ; yet that was so far from giving him any trouble , that he had the comfort of a good conscience in looking back ; i have fought a good fight , i have finished my course , i have kept the faith ; and in looking forward , henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness , which the lord the righteous judge shall give me at that day . but all his dissatisfaction did arise from looking about him ; for without were fightings , and within were fears . the persecutions abroad were indeed so sharp and severe , that none could keep a good conscience without a share in them ; which makes him say , yea , and all that will live godly in christ jesus shall suffer persecutions . but this was not that which troubled him most ; for there were two things which seem to have made a deep and sad impression upon his mind . ( . ) he observed a great coldness and indifferency among some who pretended a mighty zeal for the common interest of their religion before . of this he gives a strange instance in his own case . at my first answer , saith he , no man stood with me , but all men forsook me ; i pray god it be not laid to their charge . they might think it prudence and caution at such a dangerous time , but the apostle certainly thought it a fault , or else he would never have pray'd that it might not be laid to their charge . something might be said in excuse of those who were so near danger ; but what can be said for the general coldness of those at a distance ? this thou knowest , that all they which are in asia be turned away from me . a sad consideration to timothy , who was entrusted by him with the particular care of those in asia ! for , what comfort could he hope for among them , who were turned away from st. paul ? such a defection as this must needs bring great dishonour to religion , as well as dissatisfaction to him . ( . ) he observed a busie sort of seducers , who were crept in among them ; who were crafty , restless and designing men ; such as could not compass their own ends without taking upon them a pretence of zeal for religion . they were men of as ill tempers as we can well imagine men to be ; they were lovers of themselves , covetous , boasters , proud , &c. but he concludes their character with what one would have least expected from such a sort of men , that they had a form of godliness . they were such painted sepulchres that made a more than ordinary shew and appearance , but within there was nothing but rottenness and corruption . men who pretended to religion without vertue ; and hoped to be accounted godly without any real goodness . they made a great shew of zeal about some things , and were industrious in gaining proselytes ; for which end they crept into houses , &c. but whatever they pretended , their own interest lay at bottom ; supposing that gain is godliness ; and they were so far from any hopes of amendment , that st. paul gives that dreadfull character of them , that they waxed worse and worse , deceiving and being deceived . and what now should timothy do under such a complication of ill circumstances ? should he only stand still and see which way things would go ? or should he give way to despondency and sink under the burthen of his fears ? no , st. paul , altho' at a distance , and a prisoner , yet thinks fit to rouze , to animate , to incourage him ; and not only to put him in mind of the gift of god which was in him ; but of that spirit and temper , which true christianity possesses men's minds with . for god hath not given us the spirit of fear , but of power , of love and of a sound mind . which words may be considered two ways : i. with respect to difficulties and troubles in the world ; and so it is not a spirit of fear , but of power . some render it spiritum timiditatis , a timorous , pusillanimous spirit ; which is apt to be dejected with fears , so as not to have courage and resolution enough to do ones duty for fear of danger ; and a spirit of power is that which supports and bears up the mind under a prospect of difficulties , so as not to be hinder'd thereby from that duty which lies upon us . ii. with respect to the humours and passions of men ; and so it is a spirit of love and of a sound mind : not a peevish , froward , exasperating , provoking spirit , but a spirit of love ; not a turbulent , seditious , unruly spirit , but of a sound mind . . with respect to difficulties and troubles . which may be understood two ways : . as it may relate to such as st. paul and timothy ; we have not received , i. e. we that have an apostolical spirit given to us . . as it may relate to all christians ; we that own christ sincerely and truly have not received , &c. ( . ) i shall confider the words with respect to the apostolical spirit ; because this day we commemorate one of them , ( st. matthew . ) those who had the apostolical office committed to them , ( whether primarily by christ himself , or secondarily by the apostles , as timothy and titus and others ) had great need of this apostolical spirit . for , really , the difficulties were so great , which they were to go through , that no ordinary measures of courage and resolution would serve them . when men fight with enemies in the open field , there is a multitude combined together ; among whom there is abundance of noise and heat and examples ; and the hopes of present victory , and the shame and danger of running away ; which animate persons in a day of battel : but it is another kind of courage which is required to make men bear up against the malice and subtilty of the devil and of wicked men ; for here the combination is to all appearance much stronger on the worse side ; and if we are to judge of success by numbers , those who promote vertue and goodness could never bear up against their adversaries ; who were sure to carry it by the poll. there were among the heathens some few great men , who endeavour'd to reform the vices of mankind : but , alas ! what poor success had they in their attempts this way ? although they wanted neither wit , nor learning , nor address to carry on this noble design ; such as socrates at athens and epictetus at rome , and some others , who lived agreeably to their doctrine ; yet how little effect had both their precepts and example on the rest of the people either at athens or rome ? socrates declared a mighty resolution rather to die than to say or do any thing unbecoming the station god placed him in ; and upon the prosecution of two malicious men , the prevailing party were resolved to try the experiment , and took him at his word . after which , his disciples durst not deal so plainly and openly as he had done ; and the artifice they were put to , lost the force of the best part of their philosophy ; which they so mixed with numbers and figures and abstracted speculations , that it became a mystery , instead of a plain design to reform the manners of men. the best and wisest of them seem to have taken more pains to satisfie themselves , than to have instructed others ; or if they did , they were some few chosen disciples , whom they initiated with as much care , as they were wont to do in their solemn mysteries . but the apostles undertook to reform the world , as to two things , which mankind are the hardest brought off from , and those are idolatry and vice. and they went plainly and roundly to work , which men can the least bear ; as we see by the persecutions they underwent almost in every place assoon as their design was understood . there was a general clamour against them as the disturbers of mankind , as those who turned the world upside down ; which in some sense was true , but not as they meant it with respect to order and government . but when men have no mind to be reformed , they must have some terms of reproach to fasten upon those who go about to do it . it being natural for them to put pictures of devils on those , whom they have a mind to execute . and when they endeavour'd to convince them of their immoralities , they were very impatient ; of which we have a clear instance in st. paul's preaching to felix concerning righteousness and temperance and judgment to come : which were excellent subjects , but they went too near him ; he was too much concerned , to be willing to hear any more of them . the discourse of st. paul had too much force in it for him to bear it any longer ; for it caused such a disorder in his mind as affected his body , for , felix trembled : and then he thought it best to dismiss him to a more convenient season , which never came , that we read of . which shews , how much more willing men are to continue in their faults , than to hear them reproved in order to amendment . am i therefore become your enemy , saith st. paul , because i tell you the truth ? no doubt of it : for , no truths can be so uneasie and provoking as those which gaul the consciences of men. the false teachers whom st. paul complains so much of , were sensible of the inconveniencies which follow'd plain truth ; and therefore , to avoid persecution , they so mixed and adulterated the doctrine of the true apostles , that it lost its main force and efficacy . and although by their shifts and compliances with jews and gentiles , they escaped the hard usage which others underwent ; yet the effect of it was , that their doctrine took no deep rooting in the world : for , in origen's time , a very inconsiderable number of their disciples were left . but though the plain simplicity of the gospel met with persecutions on all hands ; yet by the undaunted courage of the preachers of it , the more it was opposed , the more it prevailed ; and at last triumphed over its greatest persecutors . ( . ) these words may be understood with respect to all christians ; and so they shew what the temper and spirit of christianity is , where it hath its due and proper effect upon men's minds . the moralists speak much of an excellent vertue , which they call magnanimity : which implies such a greatness of mind , that it carries a man on in doing what becomes him , without being discouraged by the fears of what may befall him in it . and this our saviour doth suppose to be so attainable by all his disciples , that he requires it from them . fear not them which can kill the body , but are not able to kill the soul ; or be not afraid of them that kill the body , and after that have no more that they can do , i. e. govern your fears by the consideration of another world and not of this . but is this possible , to be rid of our fears as to this world ? it may be some heroical minds may attain to this ; or those on whom god bestows the extraordinary gifts of his spirit : but can any by the common measures and assistances of grace reach to it ? fear is a natural and violent passion ; which is not easily dissembled , much less cured ; and the weaker any are , as to mind or body , the more they are subject to the power of it . there are some constitutions by reason of their dark and confused and melancholy apprehensions of things , can never get out of the labyrinth of their own fears . and where suspicions and jealousies find an easie entertainment , it is not possible to cure such person 's fears ; for they are afraid of all possible things . such i must exclude as labouring under a disease of imagination ; as we do those who are under a fever ; and for whose unreasonable fears i know no better cure than there is of madness , which is to bring the persons to the use of reason as well as we can ; and if reason doth not cure them , nothing else will. but let us suppose the fears reasonable , i. e. such as considering the state of the world a prudent man may justly apprehend ; is it not possible to master these fears ? not to cure our apprehension when it is reasonable , but to take care , that it do not torment and disquiet our mind ; but especially that it do not hinder us from doing our duty . and this is that spirit of christian magnanimity which i design to speak of ; and to make the matter as clear as i can ; i shall , ( . ) enquire into those things which the nature of magnanimity requires in general . ( . ) shew the particular measures of it according to christianity . ( . ) consider the possibility of attaining of it , and the means in order to it . ( . ) as to magnanimity in general ; it is not so much any one vertue , as a result from several put together ; and especially these , ( . ) integrity of mind : which implies these things . . a freedom from any mean and sinister ends in what we do . aristotle , who considered the nature of moral vertues , as well as any man , saith , there can be no magnanimity without simplicity and truth . and cicero saith , men of courage and magnanimity , are men of simplicity and truth , and not given to tricks . it is the sense of its own weakness which disposes any living creature to craft and cunning : the lion knows his own strength and despises it ; the fox is sensible he hath not strength enough for his own security , and therefore tries all other ways to compass his end. a spirit of magnanimity is above all little arts and shifts , which tend only to some mean and pitifull end , not worthy to be regarded . men of artifice and design may think it weakness and folly ; but it is really a greatness of mind which makes a good and wise man despise such things as unbecoming that true greatness which lies in a generous integrity : which cunning men can no more reach to , even when they affect it , than an actor upon a stage can the true greatness of a prince . . sincere and unaffected goodness . which is that , which aristotle calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and makes absolutely necessary to magnanimity . the first thing in the character of a good man among the moralists is , that he be inwardly so ; not taking upon him the appearance and shew of vertue for the sake of others ; but forming his mind and temper according to the principles and rules of it . and when he hath done this , the whole course of his actions will be agreeable thereto : he will not only be just and temperate , but kind and obliging , ready to do good to all , according to his circumstances ; and behaving himself under all , as becomes a good man. ( . ) there must not only be integrity , but courage and resolution ; without which , in difficult times , it is impossible to maintain integrity . i do not by this mean any sudden and violent heats , which rather shew the greatness of the passions than of the mind ; but a calm and sedate courage , which exceeds the other , as a man of true valour doth one that is rash and fool-hardy . the latter may do bolder things than the other ; but none of the moralists allow it to be true fortitude ; for that must be guided by reason and discretion . the bold and daring man never considers what he doth ; but he is carried on by a sudden and violent impetus , or such an agitation of spirits , that suffer him not to think ; but on he goes , and if he meets with s●ccess , it is more owing to his passion and heat , than to his wisdom or courage . violent and furious heats ( although under a pretence of zeal for religion ) are like the furious on-sets of undisciplined soldiers , which do more mischief by their want of order , than they do good by unseasonable courage . true courage must be a regular thing ; it must have not only a good end , but a wise choice of means ; and then the courage lies in the vigorous pursuit of it : not being disheartned by difficulties , nor giving over through despondency and disappointments . ( . ) there must be an indifferency of mind , as to the event of doing our duty . not a perfect indifferency , which humane nature is hardly capable of ; but such as keeps a man's mind firm and constant so as not to be moved from the dictates of a well-satisfied conscience by the motives of this world. it was a remarkable saying of socrates , which antoninus takes notice of , that man , saith he , is of no value , who regards any thing so much as doing his duty . it is not whether a man lives or dies , but whether what he doth bejust or unjust , whether it becomes a good man to do it , or not , which he is to look after . if thou canst not find any thing in life , saith that excellent emperour himself , better than justice and truth , a sound mind ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the word here used ) and a discreet courage ; then make this thy great business and apply thy self to it with all thy heart . let neither popular applause , nor power , nor riches , nor sensual pleasure draw thee off from it . choose that which is best and pursue it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with simplicity of mind and the free inclination of thy will. but the roman orator goes beyond them , when he saith , that nothing argues so mean and narrow a mind , as the love of riches ; nothing savours more of a great mind , than to contemn them ; and if men enjoy them to bestow them in beneficence and liberality . and again , to value justice and honesty and kindness and liberality above pleasure and riches and life it self , and the common good above ones private interest , argues a truly great mind , and is most agreeable to humane nature . these things i have mention'd , not only to clear the nature of magnanimity ; but to shew what generous notions these heathens had concerning the practise of vertue and integrity , even when it was accompanied with losses and hardships for the sake of it ; and what a mean esteem they had in comparison of that great idol , which the world still worships , i. e. riches . ( . ) i now come to shew the true measures of magnanimity according to the christian doctrine . and that consists in two things : . in studying to please god above all things . . in choosing rather to suffer than displease him . . in studying to please god above all things . aristotle hath observed that magnanimity hath a particular respect to honour : the question then is , whether it relates to what gets esteem and honour among men ; or , to that honour which comes from god. it 's ●●ue , the heathen moralists knew very little of this ; although aristotle once mentions the kindness which god hath for persons of the most excellent and vertuous minds , as being nearest of kindred to the gods. but this was not settled as a principle among them ; but it is the foundation of all true religion with us , that our main care ought to be to please god , and to value other things as they are most pleasing to him . the most refined atheists of this age confess , that the doctrine of the prophets and apostles is very pious and vertuous ; although they look on them as deceived in their imaginations . we take what they grant , viz. that the morals of christianity are very good ; but we say , that it is a heightning and improving of moral vertues to make them divine graces ; and not to practise them meerly as agreeable to reason , but as pleasing to god. those who allow a god , who is wise and powerfull , do confess , that no sacrifices are so pleasing to him , as a pious , devout and vertuous mind : but then they were to seek , as to the measures of piety and vertue . but that is the infinite advantage by the scriptures , which we enjoy , that by them we know what is most pleasing to god. he hath shewed thee , o man , what is good , and what hath the lord required of thee ; but to do justly , and to love mercy , and to walk humbly with thy god ▪ when god sheweth us our duty , we have no longer any ground to dispute it ; especially , when it is so agreeable to the divine nature , and our own . what can we do better with respect to mankind , than to do justly and to love mercy ? what can become us more with respect to god , than to walk humbly with our god ? to walk with god , is to have a constant regard to him in the course of our lives ; thus enoch walked with god , and noah and abraham : and to walk humbly with him , is to maintain a due sense of our distance from him and our dependence upon him . and this humility of mind doth not take off from true magnanimity ; for , it is the magnanimity of christians that i am speaking of . the magnanimity of philosophers carried them beyond the due bounds of their dependence upon god ; for they presumed upon their own sufficiency , both as to the support of their minds under difficulties and the making themselves happy . in both which they were lamentably mistaken . but the humility of christians in depending upon god for assistance and happiness is so far from being inconsistent with magnanimity , that it is not to be had without it . for , saith st. paul , i can do all things . can any thing be said greater than that ? but how ? through christ which strengtheneth me . and this dependence upon god for his grace is no more inconsistent with magnanimity , than a favourite's greatness is with his duty and service to his prince . the christian's magnanimity lies in having but one to please ; but such a one , as is the greatest , the wisest , the happiest being in the world. . but if he cannot please god and the world together , then this magnanimity carries him rather to choose suffering under the world's displeasure , than to displease god. this seems a hard choice ; but there would be no magnanimity without difficulty . it may please god , that our duty and interest may lie together , and then it is folly and humour to choose to suffer when we need not . where there is true magnanimity in suffering , there is an impartial and prudent weighing and balancing all circumstances together , before there can be a just resolution of suffering . and a man's courage in suffering depends very much upon the motives induced him to it ; which every man's conscience must judge of . but there are two sorts of sufferings magnanimity may shew it self in : ( . ) the necessary and unavoidable accidents and calamities of life . ( . ) the voluntary preferring a suffering condition rather than sinning against god. ( . ) as to the common accidents of life . it is observed by the moralists , that it is a harder thing to bear things that are troublesome , than to abstain from things that are pleasant : the sense of pain and suffering being much more uneasie , than the forbearing what is delightfull ; which is only crossing a natural inclination . and though many persons choose rather to yield to their vicious inclinations than to avoid the pains and diseases which follow them ; yet that is because they look on them as uncertain and at a distance , and hope they may escape them . but when it is certain and present , humane nature is very tender and sensible of pain and shrinks from it ; and requires inward courage to support it self under it . it is observed by the roman orator , that a peculiar kind of courage is necessary for suffering pains and diseases ; for many that have been brave men in the field , yet could not viriliter oegrotare , behave themselves like men when they came to be sick . the truth is , all mankind abhorr suffering so much , that one of the great inducements to the study of morality of old , was to find out some antidotes against the common accidents of life . for they soon found there were some sufferings incident to humane nature , which all the art and skill of the wisest men could never prevent . our bodies are continually subject to pains , to diseases , to corruption and dissolution . our estates to violence , fraud and misfortune . our houses and cities to flames , to earthquakes , to inundations . our friends and relations are all liable to the same calamities with our selves , and that makes our trouble the greater . what now should wise men do ? can they hope to stem the tide , and to turn back the stream ? no , that is too violent for them . can they raise any banks or sea-walls against them to keep them out ? all such are vain and fruitless . what then ? shall they strip themselves of all the comforts of life , that they may leave nothing to misfortune ? so some did , to no great purpose , unless they could shake off their passions too . but this doth not look like magnanimity , but cowardice ; not overcoming an enemy , but running away from him . by the same method , they must go naked to avoid robbery ; and live on the tops of mountains to escape a deluge . but some thought these things look'd most terrible at a distance ; whereas if they consider'd how common they were , they would learn to bear them better . but carneades said well , malevoli animi solatium est turba miserorum ; it is a kind of ill-natur'd comfort which one draws from the commonness of calamities . and after all it is no real satisfaction to a man's mind , to think that so many suffer as he doth ; it is like the unnatural pleasure of revenge , which one man takes in anothers pain . there is one thing it serves well for , and that is to shew the folly of great impatience under such things which the rest of mankind bear . thus julian in his epistle to amerius relates a story of democritus his dealing with darius upon the loss of his beloved wife . after several ineffectual ways of comforting him ; at last he asked him , whether bringing her to life would not put an end to his grief ? no doubt of it . but how should this be done ? let me alone for that ; said the philosopher , if you will provide me all the things i shall desire in order to it . after great care taken in providing many things for him , darius asked him if he had all he wanted ? no , said he ; there is one thing more i must have , and you are the most likely person to furnish me with it . in short , you must get me three names to be put upon her monument of such persons who have gone to their graves without sorrow or trouble ; and you , said he , have very large and populous dominions , and no doubt if such a thing be to be had , you can procure it . darius was struck with this , and after some consideration said , he doubted he could not . why then , said the philosopher smiling , are not you ashamed to be guilty of so much folly as to be so exceedingly cast down under such a calamity , as though you were the only person in the world that underwent it ? this was agreeable enough to his humour in exposing the folly of mankind ; which was a subject large enough for his whole life ; but he was too pleasant upon it . i do not deny but the moralists did find out some very usefull considerations to bear men up under the common accidents of life ; but those of greatest moment , were such as are much improved by christianity ; viz. the wisdom of providence , the usefulness of trials , the benefit of patience , and the expectation of a better state. ( . ) as to voluntary and chosen sufferings . we have in scripture several extraordinary instances of this kind of magnanimity ; such as abraham's leaving his kindred and country and going he knew not whither on god's command , and his readiness to sacrifice his son ; which argued an entire sacrifice of himself to the will of god. such was moses his choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of god than to enjoy the pleasures of pharaob's court. such was the son of god's choosing to suffer for our sakes , with admirable resignation to the divine will ; and praying for his persecutors under the greatest agonies on the cross. , such was the apostle's resolution and courage , when they rejoyced to be accounted worthy to suffer for the sake of christ ; when they were more than conquerors in the midst of persecutions . and truly the magnanimity of suffering rather than sinning , was never so much shewn to the world as in the case of the primitive christians . there were some few heroick instances of suffering for truth among the heathens ; but they were no more to be compared with the numerous examples of the primitive church than the miracles of the vestal virgins were with those of the apostles . it could not but amaze the common sort of spectators of rome , who were wont to see the gladiators , ( who were either hired or condemned to that cruel entertainment of others with their blood ) to behold a sort of grave and serious persons expose themselves to so much torment and cruelty , when so small a matter as burning a little incense would set them free . this was a new spectacle to the world , and it could not but put them upon thinking what strange sort of philosophy this was , which inspired ordinary persons with such a magnanimity in suffering . they had never found those who pretended to philosophy among them very fond of suffering for the doctrine they taught . they rather liked the example of aristotle than socrates ; who when the people of athens were enraged against him , withdrew to chalcis ; and when he was upbraided with it , made a witty excuse , that he had no mind the city of athens should sin twice against philosophy . whereas the christians were so forward to suffer for their doctrine , that it was imputed as a fault to them ; and it appears by tertullian that some out-went the bounds of christianity in offering themselves too freely to it . this made such as antoninus and others impute all their sufferings to an invincible obstinacy and a sort of madness which possessed them : which had been easily confuted , if they would have had the patience to have examin'd the reasons and grounds of their religion , as they did the peculiar doctrines of the several sects of philosophers . but this is not all which christian magnanimity doth imply ; for it is not only a spirit of power , but of love and of a sound mind . and so it hath ii. a respect to the humours and passions of men. and truly , there is such a variety and uncertainty in them ; so much folly and mistake ; so much prejudice and peevishness in some ; so much wilfulness and stiffness in others ; so little regard to the true interests of religion and vertue , under all the pretences to it ; that those who sincerely desire to promote them had need of magnanimity to bear them up against such humours and distempers of men's minds . aristotle hath well observed that magnanimity doth go beyond the consideration of dangers . it makes a man more ready to do kindnesses than to receive them ; and to forget injuries . i add , and to forgive them ; for else , it is rather want of memory , than magnanimity . it is well he adds one thing , viz. that he that hath magnanimity is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , contented within himself ; so he had need to be ; for he will find very little satisfaction abroad , especially in an age when sincerity is almost lost ▪ when men have used themselves to so much hypocrisie and dissimulation with god and man , that they can zealously pretend to love what they would be glad to ruine , and cry up peace and unity only to get an opportunity to destroy them . but still true magnanimity keeps a man's own mind at ease , and makes him to govern himself , as the same philosopher observes , with due temper and moderation in all things . such a one is not only easie to himself , but to all others , as far as is consistent with his duty . for a mind truly great , hath nothing of bitterness , or sowerness ; peevishness , or ill-will to the rest of mankind . all malice and cruelty argue a mean and base spirit . the more noble and generous any tempers are , the more tender and compassionate they are , the more ready to oblige , the more easie to forgive , the more willing to be reconciled . but to be more particular , there are two things implied in this spirit of love and of a sound mind . ( . ) the making all reasonable allowances for the infirmities of others . it makes men to consider the prejudices of education ; the variety and weakness of most men's judgments ; the power of perswasion ; the biass of parties ; and the shame and re●roach which persons undergo that break off from them , after they have been once ensnared by them . on these accounts it makes them rather pity than triumph over the follies of mankind . there are two things which a great mind doth most abhorr in religion , and are most directly contrary to a spirit of love and a sound mind ; and these are hypocrisie and cruelty ; which make men false to god , and enemies to mankind . these two often go together ; and although they are masked under a pretence of religion , yet there are no two things more opposite to the true spirit and design of it . st. john concludes that man to have no true love to god who doth not love his brother . he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen , how can he love god whom he hath not seen ? and we may argue the other way ; if a man doth not love god , how can he love his brother ? when the love of god is the best foundation for charity and kindness to our brethren ; who were at first made after the image of god , and have it again renewed in them by the power of divine grace in righteousness and true holiness . and even where that doth not appear , yet there is a tenderness and compassion due to mankind , as far as is consi●●ent with the order and government of the world. ( . ) the spirit of love and of a sound mind , consists in laying aside private animosities and heats for a publick and general good. that is a thing too great and too sacred , to be exposed and ridiculed , as though it were only a popular pretence for faction and sedition . whereas nothing is more directly opposite to it ; for therefore it is called faction and sedition , because it is against it . if it hath been abused by men of ill minds , so have the best things in the world ; but they do not lose their nature and exce●lency by it . if there be not such a thing as a common good , whence comes any man's obligation to preserve order and government , and to seek the safety and welfare of his country , although it may be to the hazard of his own life ? if there be such a thing , it deserves our regard in the first place , and we ought to lay aside all p●ejudices , and mutual animosities and the interests of particular parties , and heartily to promote that which is our true common interest , as we are english-men and protestants of the church of england ; which is a great and considerable part of the christian church , and the chief of the reformation . it is hard for any not to see that the whole protestant interest lies at stake ; and that the preservation of it depends very much on our conduct and union at this time . but if we find any to be humoursome and peevish , any to struggle more for the interest of a party to make it uppermost , than for our common good , although it be a very sad consideration and bodes very ill to us all ; yet we have that poor comfort left us , that men were as ill disposed even in the apostle's times . for saith st. paul , ( at a time when one would have thought they should have been much better inclined ) all men seek their own , not the things which are jesus christs . i hope it cannot be faid of all now ; but i fear it is so true of too many , that it is one of the worst symptoms of the present state of our affairs . and that which makes it more deplorable is , that some men have entertained such suspicion and jealousie of each other , that he that goes about to reconcile them , instead of making them friends , is look'd on as a common enemy . i am afraid there is not sincerity and integrity enough left to be a foundation for uniting several parties among us ; at lest there wants an opinion of it . and as long as there are such mistrusts and jealousies , the greatest integrity is so far useless . some learned and good men have been of late apt to perswade themselves and others , that the glorious and happy times of the church are coming on ; i could be glad to be of their opinion ; for it is a comfortable thing to a man who travels in an ill road and with bad company , whom he is perpetually afraid of , to see at a distance a pleasant and safe country , where he shall be rid of his fears and dangers . but i confess , i cannot much please my self with such thoughts , till i see the tempers of men's minds begin to change towards one another . if i could once see the spirit of love and a sound mind prevail among us ; if men would be contented to sacrifice their humours and piques to the publick interest ; in short , if there were any hopes men would be wise and good , there were then a great foundation for hope , that all things would be settled among us , so as to continue for succeeding generations . but if men will persist in their own wilfull humours ; if they had rather all should perish , than they not compass their own ends ; we need no foreign enemies to come in upon us , we shall soon come to that height of animosity , as to bite and devour one another ; and then it is an easie inference , that we shall be consumed one of another . i am far from thinking our case desperate ; for i hope men have not lost all their sense and zeal for our common interest ; but if men's heats and passions increase and grow fiercer , a man needs not pretend to prophecy to foretell what the dreadfull consequence will be . the true spirit of religion seems to be buried in men's warm contentions about it ; and some have pretended to a sort of zeal without conscience , to religion without faith , and to scruples without common honesty . if ever god designs to do us good , there must be a great alteration in men's tempers and manners . we must have more sincerity and integrity among us ; the want of which hath caused such a general mistrust of one another ; that if faith were to save the nation , i am afraid there is hardly enough left in it . and it looks like one of the symptoms of the day of judgment upon us : for , if the son of man should come , he would hardly find faith upon earth . but instead of discoursing of magnanimity , i am sensible i have run into the object and reason of our fears . but therefore to conclude all , i shall speak briefly to the last particular , which was , ( . ) to consider what arguments and means there are to support us against our fears ; or to attain to that christian magnanimity i have been discoursing of . and there are two great arguments which christianity doth particularly recommend to us . . let things go as ill as we can fear in this world ; if we are sincere christians , there is a far better state to come ; to which we shall be admitted when we are once out of this troublesome and sinfull world. there will be no hurries and confusions , no jealousies and suspicions , no piques and animosities . the highest regions of the air are the most calm and serene ; all the clouds and storms and blustering winds are below and arise from the atmosphere . if our minds were more loose from the world we should be more at quiet : for , at the bottom , the considerations of this world make men so troublesome in it . it is honour or power or riches which make them so unquiet , and endeavouring to supplant and undermine one another : if men could learn to be content with that which they pretend was all they so long and so impatiently desired , there might be some hopes of seeing something like peace and unity among us : but if liberty be thought to signifie nothing without power , it is reasonable to suppose that power will signifie nothing , unless it be all in their own hands . and what can they imagine the rest of the nation will do ? will they suffer an established church , and such a one as ours is ( which i think an apostolical church , as to doctrine , worship and government , if there be any now in the world ) to be run down with the violent heats of some men , and look on as wholly unconcerned ? they are extremely mistaken in the temper of the nation who think so . but if men will not be quiet , when they have all they pretended to desire , what can we expect but further animosities will discourage our friends , animate our common enemies , and expose us all to confusion , if not to ruine . if men loved this world less and another better , they would be more quiet here , and be more carefull to prepare for that better state. if our conversation were in heaven , as it ought to be , with what contempt should we look down upon the busie designs , the restless cares , the vain hopes and the perplexing fears of the greatest part of mankind ? then we should have more peace and tranquillity in our minds while we live , and greater satisfaction when we come to die . for integrity and innocency will keep us most from giving disturbance to others , and from finding any in our own breasts . whoso hearkeneth unto wisdom , shall dwell safely and shall be quiet from the fear of evil. . we are assured that we are under the constant care of divine providence . the tranquillity of our minds in this world depends very much upon the esteem we have of providence and the trust we repose in god. what makes children pass their time without solicitous thoughts about themselves , but the confidence they have in the wisdom and care of their parents ? what makes passengers lie down at rest in a ship at sea , but because they trust to the conduct of their pilot ? we cannot alter the methods of providence by all our solicitude ; god will govern the world by his own measures and not by ours . the government is his , the duty of submission is ours . let us not then be peevish and quarrelsome at what he doth ; but make the best use of any extraordinary instance of his providence which seems to be intended for our good , unless we turn it another way . but it is not enough to be meerly contented with providence ; but we ought to be active and usefull in our own places to promote the common interest ; and not to repine and murmur at what is necessary for the support of it . let us not torment our selves with fears of what may and what may not happen ; but let us commit our selves to god in well-doing as to our creatour and preserver . sermon vi. preached at st. laurence-jewry , april the th , . timothy i. . this is a faithfull saying and worthy of all acceptation , that christ jesus came into the world to save sinners , of whom i am chief . if these words were to be understood without any restriction or limitation that christ jesus came into the world to save sinners , they would overthrow the great design of the gospel , and make its excellent precepts useless and ineffectual . for , to what purpose should men be put upon the severe practice of repentance , mortification and a continued course of a holy life , if the meer being sinners did sufficiently qualifie them for salvation ? this indeed would be thought a doctrine worthy of all acceptation by the greatest sinners ; but it could not be a faithfull saying , being not agreeable either to the nature of god , or revelation of his will by christ jesus . but st. paul speaks of such sinners as himself had been ; i. e. such as had been great sinners , but had truly and sincerely repented . of whom i am chief . what then ? must we look on him as the standard and measure of such sinners whom christ jesus came to save ? what will then become of all those who have been sinners of a higher rank than ever he was ? it 's true in the verses before the text , he sets out his sins , as a humble penitent is wont to do , with the worst colours and deepest aggravations , who was before a blasphemer and a persecutor , and injurious ; but yet he adds , that he obtained mercy because he did it ignorantly , in unbelief . how then is st. paul the chief of sinners ? are sins of ignorance and mistake the greatest of sins , for which christ died ? is there no expiation for any other by jesus christ ? what will become then of all such who sin against knowledge and conscience , and not in ignorance and unbelief ? can none of these hope for mercy by christ jesus , although they do truly repent ? but the blood of christ is said elsewhere to cleanse us from all sin ; not , while we continue in them , but if we repent and forsake them . and jesus christ is said to be a propitiation for our sins ; and not for ours only , but for the sins of the whole world. and therefore this expression of st. paul notes his great humility and deep sense of his own sins ; but doth not exclude others from the hopes of pardon whose sins have other aggravations than his had . for , if we leave out the last words as peculiar to his case , yet the other contain in them a true proposition and of the greatest importance to mankind ; this is a fàithfull saying and worthy of all acceptation , that christ jesus came into the world to save sinners . this , you may say , is a matter out of all doubt among all such who hope for salvation by christ jesus ; for all are agreed , that one way or other we are to be saved by him . but there is great difficulty as to the way of saving sinners by christ jesus ; whether by the doctrine and example of the man christ jesus , by the power he attained through his sufferings ; or , by the eternal son of god's assuming our nature , and suffering in our stead in order to the reconciling god to us , and making a propitiation for our sins . these are two very different hypotheses or notions of christ's coming to save sinners ; and the former seems more easie to be understood and believed ; and the other seems to have insuperable difficulties in point of reason ; and to run our religion into mysteries , which expose our faith and make christianity appear contemptible to men of sense and understanding . is it not therefore much better to embrace such a scheme of it , as will have the least objection against it , that so men of reason may not be tempted to infidelity , and men of superstition may not under the colour of mysteries bring in the most absurd and unreasonable doctrines ? these are plausible insinuations , and would be apt to prevail on considering men's minds , if they were to form and make a religion that might be most accommodated to the genius and humour of the age they live in . and truly no men ( by their own authority ) can pretend to a right to impose on others any mysteries of faith , or any such things which are above their capacity to understand . but that is not our case ; for we all profess to believe and receive christianity as a divine revelation ; and god ( we say ) may require from us the belief of what we may not be able to comprehend , especially if it relates to himself , or such things which are consequent upon the union of the divine and humane nature . therefore our business is to consider , whether any such things be contained in that revelation which we all own ; and if they be , we are bound to believe them , although we are not able to comprehend them . now here are two remarkable characters in these words , by which we may examine these different hypotheses concerning the way of salvation by jesus christ. i. it is a faithfull saying , and therefore must be contained in that revelation which god hath made concerning our salvation by christ. ii. it is worthy of all acceptation ; i. e. most usefull and beneficial to mankind . now by these two i shall proceed in the examination of them . i. which is most agreeable to the revealed will of god. ii. which doth offer fairest for the benefit and advantage of mankind . i. which is most agreeable to the revealed will of god. for that we are sure is the most faithfull saying ; since men of wit and reason may deceive us , but god cannot . when the apostles first preached this doctrine to the world , they were not bound to believe what they affirmed to be a faithfull saying till they gave sufficient evidence of their authority from god , by the wonderfull assistance of the holy ghost . but now this faithfull saying is contained in the books of the new testament , by which we are to judge of the truth of all christian doctrines . and when two different senses of places of scripture are offer'd , we are to consider , which is most reasonable to be preferr'd . and herein we are allow'd to exercise our reason as much as we please ; and the more we do so , the sooner we shall come to satisfaction in this matter . now according to reason we may judge that sense to be preferr'd , ( . ) which is most plain and easie and agreeable to the most received sense of words ; not that which is forced and intricate , or which puts improper and metaphorical senses upon words which are commonly taken in other senses ; especially when it is no sacramental thing , which in its own nature is figurative . ( . ) that which suits most with the scope and design not only of the particular places , but of the whole new testament ; which is , to magnifie god and to depress man ; to set forth , the infinite love and condescention of god in giving his son to be a propitiation for our sins ; to set up the worship of one true god in opposition to creatures ; to represent and declare the mighty advantages mankind receive by the sufferings of christ jesus . ( . ) that which hath been generally received in the christian church to be the sense of those places . for , we are certain , this was always look on as a matter of great concernment to all christians ; and they had as great capacity of understanding the sense of the apostles ; and the primitive church had greater helps for knowing it than others at so much greater distance . and therefore the sense is not to be taken from modern inventions , or criticisms ; or pretences to revelation ; but that which was at first deliver'd to the christian church and hath been since received and embraced by it in the several ages ; and hath been most strenuously asserted , when it hath met with opposition , as founded on scripture and the general consent of the christian church . ( . ) that which best agrees with the characters of those persons from whom we receive the christian faith ; and those are christ jesus and his holy apostles . for , if their authority be lost , our religion is gone ; and their authority depends upon their sincerity and faithfulness , and care to inform the world aright in matters of so great importance . ( . ) i begin with the character which the apostles give of christ jesus himself ; which is , that he was a person of the greatest humility and condescension , that he did not assume to himself that which he might justly have done . for let the words of st. paul be understood either as to the nature , or dignity of christ , it is certain that they must imply thus much , that when christ jesus was here on earth , he was not of a vain assuming humour , that he did not boast of himself , nor magnifie his own greatness , but was contented to be look'd on as other men ; although he had at that time far greater and diviner excellency in him than the world would believe . less than this cannot be made of those words of the apostle , who being in the form of god , he thought it not robbery to be equal with god , but made himself of no reputation and took upon him the form of a servant . now this being the character given of him let us consider what he doth affirm concerning himself . for although he was far from drawing the people after him , by setting forth his own perfection ; yet upon just occasions , when the jews contested with him , he did assert such things , which must savour of vanity and ostentation , or else must imply that he was the eternal son of god. for , all mankind are agreed that the highest degree of ambition lies in affecting divine honour , or for a meer man to be thought a god. how severely did god punish herod for being pleased with the people's folly in crying out , the voice of god and not of man ? and therefore he could never have born with such positive assertions and such repeated defences of his being the son of god in such a manner as implied his being so from eternity . this in his disputes with the jews he affirms several times , that he came down from heaven , not in a metaphorical but in a proper sense , as appears by those words , what and if ye shall see the son of man ascend up where he was before ? in another conference he asserted , that he was before abraham . which the jews so literally understood , that without a metaphor they went about to stone him ; little imagining that by abraham the calling of the gentiles was to be understood . but above all , is that expression which he used to the jews at another conference , i and my father are one ; which they understood in such a manner that immediately they took up stones to have stoned him . what means all this rage of the jews against him ? what ? for saying that he had unity of consent with his father ? no certainly : but the jews misunderstood him . let us suppose it ; would not our saviour have immediately explained himself to prevent so dangerous a misconstruction ? but he asked them , what it was they stoned him for ? they answered him directly and plainly , because that thou being a man makest thy self god. this was home to the purpose . and here was the time for him to have denied it , if it had not been so . but doth he deny it ? doth he say , it would be blasphemy in him to own it ? no ; but he goes about to defend it ; and proves it to be no blasph●my for him to say that he was the son of god ; i. e. so as to be god , as the jews understood it . can we imagine that a meer man knowing himself to be such , should assume this to himself ; and yet god to bear witness to him not only by miracles , but by a voice from heaven , wherein he was called his beloved son in whom he was well pleased ? could god be pleased with a mortal , finite , despicable creature , as the jews thought him , that assumed to himself to be god and maintained and defended it among his own people , in a solemn conference at a very publick place , in one of the portico's of the temple ? and this he persisted in to the last . for , when the high priest adjured him by the living god to tell , whether he were the christ the son of god , ( for he , no doubt , had heard of the result of this conference in solomon's porch ) jesus said unto him , thou hast said . st. mark , more expresly , jesus said i am . and this was the blasphemy , for which they put him to death ; as appears by the evangelists . so that this ought to be a dispute only between jews and christians ; since it was the very point , for which they condemned him to death . and in his last most divine prayer just before his suffering , he owns the glory which he had with the father before the world had a being . and now , o father , glorisie thou me with the glory which i had with thee , before the world was . was this nothing but the glory which god had designed to give him ? this is so far from being peculiar to christ , that it is common to all whom god designs to glorifie ; and takes away the distinction between the decree and the execution of it . ( . ) as to the apostles , the reason we believe their testimony is , that they were men of great sincerity and plainness , and of great zeal for the honour and glory of god. and according to this character , let us examine what they say concerning christ jesus . he that was most conversant with him , and beloved by him , and lived to see his divinity contested by some , and denied by others , is most ample in setting it forth in his admirable , sublime , and divine introduction to his gospel . which all the wit of mankind can never make tolerable sense of , if they deny christ's being the eternal son of god ; and it is he , that hath preserved those conferences with the jews , wherein he asserts his own divinity . st. paul was a stranger to him while he lived ; but at the same time when he was so zealous to perswade the gentiles to the worship of god and not of creatures , he calls him god , over all blessed for evermore . and when he saith , that the eternal power and god-head are known by the creation of the world , he attributes the creation of all things to christ , applying to him those words of the psalmist , thou lord in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth and the heaven , the work of thy hands . which cannot be understood of any metaphorical creation . and after the strictest examination of copies , those will be found the best , which have that reading on which our translation is grounded . and without controversie great is the mystery of godliness , god was manifest in the flesh. so that god's being manifest in the flesh is made a great part of the mystery of christianity . but here arises a difficulty , which deserves to be consider'd ; i. e. if there were nothing in the christian doctrine , but the way of saving sinners by the doctrine and example of christ , there would be little objection to be made to it ; since the obtaining eternal life is certainly the best thing can be proposed to mankind , and the precepts of christ are divine and spiritual , plain and easie to be understood , and agreeable to the reason of mankind ; but many other things are imposed on men as necessary to be believed concerning christ jesus , as to his divinity , incarnation , and the hypostatical union of both natures , which perplex and confound our understandings ; and yet these things are not only deliver'd as mysteries of the christian faith ; but the belief of them is required as necessary to the salvation of sinners ; whereas , if they are revealed they are no longer mysteries ; and if they are not revealed , how come they to be made articles of faith ? the scripture knows of no other mysteries of faith but such as were hidden before the revelation of them , but since they are revealed they are plain and open to all men's capacities ; and therefore it is a great injury to the plainness and simplicity of the gospel to impose such incomprehensible mysteries , as necessary articles of faith ; and it is abusing the credulity of mankind , to make such things necessary to be believed , which are impossible to be understood . but those who have ever loved to deceive and abuse the rest of the world , have been always fond of the name of mysteries ; and therefore all such things are to be suspected , which come under that name . for , all such points which will not bear examination , must be wrapt up and reverenced under the name of mysteries , that is , of things to be swallow'd without being understood . but the scripture never calls that a mystery which is incomprehensible in it self , though never so much revealed . this is the main force of the objection , which i shall endeavour to remove by shewing , ( . ) that god may justly require from us in general , the belief of what we cannot comprehend . ( . ) that which way soever the way of salvation by christ be explained , there will be something of that nature found in it ; and that those who reject the mysteries of faith run into greater difficulties than those who assert them . ( . ) that no more is required as a necessary article of faith than what is plainly and clearly revealed . ( . ) that god may justly require from us in general , the belief of what we cannot comprehend . it is to very little purpose to enquire whether the word mystery in scripture be applied to such particular doctrines , whose substance is revealed , but the manner of them is incomprehensible by us ; for why may not we make use of such a word whereby to express things truly revealed , but above our comprehension ? we are certain the word mystery is used for things far less difficult and abstruse ; and why may it not then be fitly applied to such matters , which are founded on divine revelation , but yet are too deep for us to go to the bottom of them ? are there not mysteries in arts , mysteries in nature , mysteries in providence ? and what absurdity is there to call those mysteries , which in some measure are known , out in much greater unknown to us ? altho' therefore in the language of scripture it be granted , that the word mystery is most frequently applied to things before hidden , but now revealed , yet there is no incongruity in calling that a mystery , which being revealed , hath yet something in it which our understandings cannot reach to . but it is meer cavilling to insist on a word , if the thing it self be granted . the chief thing therefore to be done is , to shew that god may require from us the belief of such things which are incomprehensible by us . for , god may require any thing from us , which it is reasonable for us to do ; if it be then reasonable for us to give assent where the manner of what god hath revealed is not comprehended , then god may certainly require it from us . hath not god revealed to us that in six days he made heaven and earth and all that is therein ? but is it not reasonable for us to believe this , unless we are able to comprehend the manner of god's production of things ? here we have something revealed and that plainly enough , viz. that god created all things , and yet , here is a mystery remaining as to the manner of doing it . hath not god plainly revealed that there shall be a resurrection of the dead ? and must we think it unreasonable to believe it , till we are able to comprehend all the changes of the particles of matter from the creation to the general resurrection ? but it is said that there is no contradiction in this , but there is in the mystery of the trinity and incarnation . it is strange boldness in men to talk thus of monstrous contradictions in things above their reach . the atheists may as well say , infinite power is a monstrous contradiction ; and god's immensity and his other unsearchable perfections are monstrous paradoxes and contradictions . will men never learn to distinguish between numbers and the nature of things ? for three to be one is a contradiction in numbers ; but whether an infinite nature can communicate it self to three different subsistences without fuch a division as is among created beings , must not be determin'd by bare numbers , but by the absolute perfections of the divine nature ; which must be owned to be above our comprehension . for let us examine some of those perfections which are most clearly revealed and we shall find this true . the scripture plainly reveals , that god is from everlasting to everlasting ; that he was and is and is to come ; but shall we not believe the truth of this till we are able to fathom the abyss of god's eternity ? i am apt to think ( and i have some thoughtfull men concurring with me ) that there is no greater difficulty in the conception of the trinity and incarnation , than there is of eternity . not , but that there is great reason to believe it ; but from hence it appears that our reason may oblige us to believe some things which it is not possible for us to comprehend . we know that either god must have been for ever , or it is impossible he ever should be ; for if he should come into being when he was not , he must have some cause of his being ; and that which was the first cause would be god. but , if he was for ever he must be from himself ; and what notion or conception can we have in our minds concerning it ? and yet , atheistical men can take no advantage from hence ; because their own most absurd hypothesis hath the very same difficulty in it . for something must have been for ever . and it is far more reasonable to suppose it of an infinite and eternal mind , which hath wisdom and power and goodness to give being to other things , than of dull , stupid and sen●eless matter , which could never move it self , nor give being to any thing besides . here we have therefore a thing which must be owned by all ; and yet such a thing which can be conceived by none . which shews the narrowness and shortness of our understandings , and how unfit they are to be the measures of the possibilities of things . vain men would be wise ; they would fain go to the very bottom of things , when alass ! they scarce understand the very surface of them . they will allow no mysteries in religion ; and yet every thing is a mystery to them . they cry out of cheats and impostures under the notion of mysteries ; and yet there is not a spire of grass but is a mystery to them ; they will bear with nothing in religion which they cannot comprehend , and yet there is scarce any thing in the world which they can comprehend . but above other things the divine perfections , even those which are most absolute and necessary are above their reach . for let such men try ●heir imaginations about god's eternity , not meerly how he should be from himself , but how god should coexist with all the differences of times , and yet there be no succession in his own being . i do not say there is such difficulty to conceive a rock standing still when the waves run by it ; or the gnomon of a dial when the shadow passes from one figure to another ; because these are gross un-active things ; but the difficulty is far greater where the being is perfect and always active . for , where there is succession there is a passing out of not being in such a duration into being in it ; which is not consistent with the absolute perfection of the divine nature . and therefore god must be all at once what he is , without any respect to the difference of time past , present or to come . from whence eternity was defined by boethius to be a perfect and complete possession all at once of everlasting life . but how can we form any conception in our minds of that being all at once , which hath such different acts as must be measur'd by a long succession of time ? as , the creating and dissolving the frame of the world ; the promising and sending the messias ; the declaring and executing a general judgment ; how can these things be consistent with a permanent instant , or a continuance of being without succession ? for , it is impossible for us in this case , as to god's eternity , to form a clear and distinct idea in our mind , of that which both reason and revelation convince us must be . the most we can make of our conception of it is , that god hath neither beginning of being , nor end of days ; but that he always was , and always must be . and this is rather a necessary conclusion from reason and scripture , than any distinct notion or conception of eternity in our minds . from whence it evidently follows , that god may reveal something to us , which we are bound to believe , and yet after that revelation the manner of it may be incomprehensible by us , and consequently a mystery to us . hath not god revealed to us in scripture the spirituality of his own nature ? that he is a spirit and therefore will be worshipp'd in spirit and in truth ; for , that is a true reason why spiritual worship should be most agreeable to him . now , if we could have a clear , distinct , 〈◊〉 notion in our minds of god's spiritual nature , we might then pretend that there is nothing mysterious in this , since it is revealed . but let such men examine their own thoughts about this matter ; and try , whether the utmost they can attain to , be not something negative , viz. because great absurdities would follow if we attributed any thing corporeal to god ; for , then he must be compounded of parts , and so he may be dissolved ; then he must be confined to a certain place , and not every-where present ; he cannot have the power of acting and self-determining which a meer body hath not . for the clearest notion we can have of body , is , that it is made up of some things as parts of it , which may be separated from each other , and is confined to a certain place , and hath no power to move or act from it self . but some of these men who cry down mysteries and magnifie reason , to shew how slender their pretences to reason are , have asserted a corporeal god , with shaps and figure . it was indeed well thought of by those who would make a man to be god , to bring god down as near to man as might be . but how to reconcile the notion of a body with infinite perfections , is a mystery to me , and far above my comprehension . but if it be no mystery to such men , they must either deny god's infinite perfections , or shew how a bodily shape can be capable of them . but some men can confound finite and infinite , body and spirit , god and man , and yet are for no mysteries ; whereas these things are farther from our reach and comprehension , than any of those doctrines which they find fault with . but to proceed . if we believe prophecy , we must believe god's fore-knowledge of future events : for , how could they be foretold if he did not foreknow them ? and if he did fore-know those which he did foretell , then it was either because those only were revealed to him which is inconsistent with the divine perfections ; or that he doth fore-know all other events and only thought fitting to reveal these : but how can they solve the difficulties about divine prescience ? is there no mystery in this ? nothing above their comprehension ? what then made their great master deny it , as a thing above his comprehension ? because nothing can be fore-known but what hath a certain cause , and therefore , if evil actions be fore-told god must be the cause of them , and men will not be free agents in them . and yet it is most certain , that the sufferings of christ by the wickedness of men , were foretold . what then ? must we make god the author of sin ? god forbid . will the righteous judge of all the earth , punish mankind for his own acts , which they could not avoid ? then we must yield , that there is something in the manner of the divine prescience , which is above our comprehension . and the most searching and inquisitive men have been forc'd to yield it at last , as to the connection between the certainty of prescience and the liberty of humane actions . is it not then much better to sit down quietly at first , adoring the infiniteness of god's incomprehensible perfections , than after all the huffings and disputings of men to say , in ignorantiâ solâ quietem invenio , as the great schoolman did ? surely then , here is something plainly revealed , and yet the manner of it is still a mystery to us . i shall not now insist on any more of the particular attributes of god , but only in general i desire to know , whether they believe them to be finite or infinite ? if to be finite , then they must have certain bounds and limits which they cannot exceed ; and that must either be from the imperfection of nature , or from a superiour cause , both which are repugnant to the very being of god. if they believe them to be infinite , how can they comprehend them ? we are strangely puzzled in plain , ordinary , finite things ; but it is madness to pretend to comprehend what is infinite ; and yet if the perfections of god be not infinite they cannot belong to him. i shall only add , in consequence to this assertion , that if nothing is to be believed , but what may be comprehended , the very being of god must be rejected too . and therefore i desire all such who talk so warmly against any mysteries in religion to consider whose work it is they are doing ; even theirs who under this pretence go about to overthrow all religion . for , say they , religion is a mystery in its own nature ; not this or that , or the other religion ; but they are all alike , all is mystery ; and that is but another name for fraud and imposture . what were the heathen mysteries but tricks of priest-craft ; and such are maintained and kept up in all kinds of religion . if therefore these men , who talk against mysteries understand themselves , they must in pursuance of their principles reject one god , as well as three persons ; for , as long as they believe an infinite and incomprehensible being , it is nonsense to reject any other doctrine , which relates to an infinite being , because it is incomprehensible . but yet these very men , who seem to pursue the consequence of this principle to the utmost , must assert something more incomprehensible than the being of god. for , i appeal to any man of common understanding , whether it be not more agreeable to reason to suppose works of skill , beauty and order to be the effects of a wise and intelligent being , than of blind chance and unaccountable necessity ; whether it be not more agreeable to the sense of mankind to suppose an infinite and eternal mind endued with all possible perfections to be the maker of this visible world ; than , that it should start out from it self , without contrivance , without order , without cause ? certainly such men have no reason to find fault with the mysteries of religion because they are incomprehensible , since there is nothing so absurd and incomprehensible , as their darling hypothesis ; and , there is nothing which can make it prevail , but to suppose mankind to be as dull and insensible as the first chaos . thus i have shewn that it is not unreasonable for god to require from us the belief of something which we cannot comprehend . ( . ) i now come to consider , whether those who are so afraid of incomprehensible mysteries in our faith , have made it so much more easie in the way they have taken . and notwithstanding all the hectoring talk against mysteries and things incomprehensible in religion , i find more insuperable difficulties in point of reason in their way than in ours . as for instance , ( . ) it is a more reasonable thing to suppose something mysterious in the eternal son of god's being with the father before the world was made by him : ( as st. john expresses it in the beginning of his gospel ) than in supposing that although john the baptist were born six months before jesus christ ; that yet christ was in dignity before him . what a wonderfull mystery is this ? can men have the face to cry down mysteries in deep speculations , and matters of a high and abstruse nature , when they make such mysteries of plain and easie things ? and suppose the evangelist in profound language and lofty expressions to prove a thing , which was never disputed , viz. that although christ jesus were born six months after john , yet he was in dignity before him ? yet this was a mystery , which , as i remember , faustus socinus glories in that his uncle loelius obtained by revelation . ( . ) it is a more reasonable thing to suppose that a divine person should assume humane nature , and so the word to be made flesh ; than to say , that an attribute of god , his wisdom or power is made flesh , which is a mystery beyond all comprehension ; there may be some difficulties in our conception of the other , but this is a thing beyond all conception or imagination ; for an accident to be made a substance is as absurd , as to imagine it to subsist without one . ( . ) it is more reasonable to suppose that the son of god should come down from heaven and take our nature upon him , than that a man should be rapt up into heaven , that it might be said that he came down from thence . for in the former supposition we have many other places of scripture to support it , which speak of his being with god , and having glory with him before the world was ; whereas there is nothing for the other , but only that it is necessary to make some tolerable sense of those words . ( . ) it is more reasonable to believe that god should become man by taking our nature upon him , than that man should become god. for in the former , there is nothing but the difficulty of conceiving the manner of the union , which we all grant to be so between soul and body ; but in the other there is a repugnancy in the very conception of a created god , of an eternal son of adam , of omnipotent infirmity , of an infinite finite being . in the former case , an infinite is united to a finite ; but in the other a finite becomes infinite . ( . ) it is more reasonable to believe that christ jesus should suffer as he did for our sakes than for his own . we are all agreed that the sufferings of christ were far beyond any thing he deserved at god's hands ; but what account then is to be given of them ? we say that he made himself a voluntary sacrifice for expiation of the sins of mankind ; and so there was a great and noble end designed , and no injury done to a willing mind ; and the scripture as plainly expresses this , as it can do in words . but others deny this , and make him to suffer as one wholly innocent ; for what cause ? to make the most innocent persons as apprehensive of suffering as the most guilty ; and the most righteous god to put no difference between them , with respect to suffering ? ( . ) it is more reasonable to suppose such a condescension in the son of god to take upon him the form of a servant for our advantage ; than that a meer man should be exalted to the honour and worship which belongs only to god. for , on the one side , there is nothing but what is agreeable to the divine nature , viz. infinite love and condescension and pity to mankind ; on the other , there is the greatest design of self-exaltation that ever was in humane nature , viz. for a meer man to have the most essential attributes and incommunicable honour which belongs to god. and whether of these two is more agreeable to the spirit and design of the new testament , let any man of understanding judge . for as it is evident , that the great intention of it is to magnifie the wonderfull love of god in the sending of his son ; so it is as plain that one great end of the christian doctrine was to take mankind off from giving divine worship to creatures ; and can we then suppose that at the same time it should set up the worship of a meer man with all the honour and adoration which belongs to god ? this is to me an incomprehensible mystery indeed , and far beyond all that is implied in the mysteries of the trinity and incarnation . for it subverts the very foundation of the design of christianity as to the reforming idolatry then in being ; it lays the foundation for introducing it into the world again ; for since the distance between god and his creatures is taken away , in the matter of worship , there is nothing left but the declaration of his will ; which doth not exclude more mediators of intercession but upon this ground , that the mediation of redemption is the foundation of that of intercession . and it is far more easie for us to suppose there may be some things too hard for us to understand in the mystery of our redemption by jesus christ , than that at the same time it should be both a duty and a sin to worship any but the true god with proper divine worship . for if it be idolatry to give it to a creature , then it is a great sin ; for so the scripture still accounts it ; but if we are bound to give it to christ who is but a creature , then that which in it self is a sin , is now become a necessary duty ; which overthrows the natural differences of good and evil , and makes idolatry to be a meer arbitrary thing . and i take it for granted , that in matters of religion , moral difficulties are more to be regarded than intellectual ; because religion was far more designed for a rule of our actions , than for the satisfaction of our curiosity . and upon due examination we shall find that there is no such frightfull appearances of difficulties in the m●stery of the incarnation , as there is in giving divine worship to a creature . and it ought to be observed , that those very places which are supposed to exclude christ from being the true god ; must , if they have any force , exclude him from divine worship . for they are spoken of god as the object of our worship ; but if he be not excluded from divine worship , then neither is he from being the true god ; which they grant he is by office but not by nature . but a god by office who is not so by nature is a new and incomprehensible mystery . a mystery hidden from ages and generations as to the church of god ; but not made known by the gospel of his son. this is such a kind of mystery as the heathen priests had , who had gods many and lords many , as the apostle saith , i. e. many by office although but one by nature . but if the christian religion had owned one god by nature and only one by office , the heathens had been to blame chiefly in the number of their gods by office , and not in the divine worship which they gave to them . but st. paul blames the heathens for doing service to them which by nature are no gods ; not for doing it without divine authority , nor for mistaking the person who was god by office , but in giving divine worship to them who by nature were no gods ; which he would never have said , if by the christian doctrine , divine worship were to be given to one who was not god by nature . but these are indeed incomprehensible mysteries how a man by nature can be a god really and truly by office ; how the incommunicable perfections of the divine nature can be communicated to a creature ; how god should give his glory to another , and by his own command require that to be given to a creature , which himself had absolutely forbidden to be given to any besides himself . it is said by a famous jesui● ( i will not say how agrecably to their own doctrines and practices about divine worship ) that the command of god cannot make him worthy of divine worship , who without such a command is not worthy of it . and it is very absurd to say , that he that is unworthy of it without a command , ●an become worthy by it ; for it makes god to command divine honour to be given to one who cannot deserve it . ( for no meer man can des●rve to be made god. ) but it is more agreeable to the divine nature and will not to give his honour to a creature . ( . ) but after all the invectives of these enemies to mysteries , we do not make that which we say is incomprehensible to be a necessary article of faith as it is incomprehensible ; but we do assert that what is incomprehensible as to the manner , may be a necessary article as far as it is plainly revealed . as in the instances i have already mentioned of the creation and resurrection of the dead ; would they in earnest have men turn infidels as to these things till they are able to comprehend all the difficulties which relate to them ? if not , why should this suggestion be allow'd as to the mysteries which relate to our redemption by jesus christ ? if it be said , the case is not alike for those are clearly revealed and these are not ; this brings it to the true and proper issue of this matte● , and if we do not prove a clear revelation , we do not assert their being necessary articles of faith ; but my present business was only to take off this objection that the m●steries were incomprehensible and therefore not to be received by us . ii. and so i come to the second way , by which , we are to examine the several senses of christ jesus coming to save sinners : which of them tends more to the benefit and advantage of mankind ; or which is more worthy of all acceptation . and that will appear by considering these things ; ( . ) which tends most to the raising our esteem and love of christ jesus . ( . ) which tends most to the begetting in us a greater hatred of sin. ( . ) which tends most to the strengthening our hope of salvation by jesus christ. ( . ) as to the raising in us a greater esteem and love of christ. we are certain that the infinite love and cond●●cension of christ jesus in undertaking such a work as the saving of sinners makes it most worthy of all acceptation . some men may please themselves in thinking that by taking away all mysteries they have made their faith more easie , but i am certain they have extremely lessen'd the argument for our love , viz. the apprehensions of the wonderfull love and condescension of christ in coming into the world to save sinners . and yet this is the great argument of the new testament to perswade mankind to the love of god and of his son : god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son , &c. this is indeed a mighty argument of love , if by the only begotten son be meant the eternal son of god , who came down from heaven , as st. john speaks just before ; but if no more be meant but only that god made a meer man to be h●s son , and after he had preached a while here on earth and was ill used and crucified by his own people , he exalted him to be god and gave him divine attributes and hon●urs ; this were an argument of great love to the person of christ , but not to the rest of mankind . but god's love in scripture is magnified with respect to the world in the sending of his son. in this was manifested , saith the apostle , the love of god towards us , because that god sent his only begotten son into the world that we should live through him . herein is love , not that we loved god , but that he loved us , and sent his son to be a propitiation for our sins . the great love we still see is towards us , i. e. towards mankind , but according to the other sense it must have been , herein was the love of god manifested to his son , that for his sufferings he exalted him above all creatures . he that spared not his own son , saith st. paul , but deliver'd him up for us all . if he were the eternal son of god who came to suffer for us , there is a mighty force and emphasis in this expression , and very apt to raise our admiration and our love ; but what not sparing his own son is there , if nothing were meant but that he designed by sufferings to exalt him ? for not sparing him supposes an antecedent relation of the highest kindness , but the other is only designing extraordinary kindness for the sake of his sufferings . therefore , the argument for the love of god is taken from what his son was , when he deliver'd him up for us all ; he was his own son ; not by adoption as others are ; st john calls him his only begotten son ; and god himself , his beloved son in the voice from heaven ; and this before his sufferings , immediately after his baptism , when as yet , there was nothing extraordinary done by him , as to the great design of his coming . which shews , that there was an antecedent relation between him and the father ; and that therein the love of god and of christ was manifested , that being the only begotten son of the father , he should take our nature upon him , and for our sakes do and suffer what he did . this is indeed an argument great enough to raise our admiration , to excite our devotion , to inflame our affections ; but how flat and low doth it appear , when it comes to no more than this , that there was a man , whom , after his sufferings , god raised from the dead and made him a god by office ? doth this carry any such argument in it for our esteem and love and devotion to him as the other doth upon the most serious consideration of it ? ( . ) which tends most to beget in us a greater hatred of sin. for that is so contrary to the way of our salvation by jesus christ , that what tends most to our hatred of it , must conduce most to our happiness ; and ●herefore be most worthy of all acceptation . it is agreed on all hands , that christ did suffer very much both in his mind and in his body . in his mind , when it is said , that he was troubled in spirit ; that he began to be sorrowfull and very heavy ; and soon after , my soul is exceeding sorrowfull , even unto death . st. luke saith , that he was in an agony ; wherein he not only prayed more earnestly , but his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling to the ground . what made this amazement , and dreadfull agony in the mind of the most innocent person in the world ? was it merely the fear of the pains of death which he was to undergo ? that is impossible , considering the assurance which he had of so glorious a reward so soon following after ; when so many martyrs endured such exquisite torments for his sake without any such disturbance or co●sternation . but the apostles give us another account of it . st. peter , saith he was to bear our sins in his own body on the tree ; that christ suffer'd for sins , the just for the unjust . st. paul , that god made him to be sin for us who knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him . hereby we understand how so innocent a person came to suffer ; he stood in our stead ; he was made sin for us ; and therefore was to be treated as a sinner ; and to suffer that on our account , which he could not deserve on his own . if he suffer'd on his own account , this were the way to fill our minds with perplexity concerning the justice of providence with respect to his dealings with the most innocent and holy persons in this world ; if he suffer'd on our account , then we have the benefit of his sufferings , and therein we see how displeasing to god sin is , when even his own son suffer'd so much by taking the guilt of our sins upon him . and what can tend more to the begetting in us a due hatred of sin , than to consider , what christ himself suffer'd on the account of it ? what can make us have more dreadfull thoughts of it , than that the great and mercifull god , when he designed to save sinners , yet would have his own son to become a propitiation for the sins of mankind ? and unless we allow this , we must put force upon the plainest expressions of scripture ; and make christ to suffer meerly to shew god's power over a most innocent person , and his will and pleasure to inflict the most severe punishment without any respect to guilt . and surely such a notion of god , cannot be worthy of all acceptation . ( . ) which tends most to strengthen our hope of salvation by christ jesus . if we believe that he suffer'd for our sins , then we have great reason to hope for the forgiveness of them ; although they have been many and great , if we sincerely repent ; because the most prevailing argument for despair will be removed ; which is taken from the justice of god , and his declared hatred of sin and displeasure against sinners . if god be so much in earnest displeased with the sins of mankind , and his justice be concerned in the punishment of sinners , how can they ever hope to escape , unless there be a way for his displeasure to be removed , and his justice to be satisfied ? and this the scripture tells us is done by christ , who died that he might be a sacrifice of attonement to reconcile us to god by his death ; as st. paul expresly affirms . and by this means , we may have strong consolation from the hopes of forgiveness of our sins . whereas , if this be taken away , either men must believe that god was not in earnest displeased with the sins of mankind ; which must exceedingly lessen our esteem of the holiness and justice of god ; or if he were so displeased , that he laid aside this displeasure , without any atonement or sacrifice of expiation . and so , as many as look on god's justice and holiness as necessary and essential attributes of god , will be in danger of sinking into the depths of despair , as often as they reflect seriously on the guilt of their sins . but on the other side , if we believe that while we were enemies , we were reconciled to god by the death of his son ; then we may have peace with god through our lord jesus christ ; and have reason to believe that there will be no condemnation to them that are in christ jesus by a lively faith and sincere repentance ; then they may with comfort look up to god as a reconciled father , through jesus christ our mediatour ; then they may with inward satisfaction look beyond the grave , and stedfastly hope for that salvation which christ purchased on earth and will at last bestow on all such as love and obey him . to which god of his infinite mercy bring us all through jesus christ. for , this is a faithfull saying and worthy of all acceptation , that he came into the world to save sinners . sermon vii . preached before the queen at white-hall , march the st . / . s. luke vi. . and why call ye me lord , lord , and do not the things which i say ? these few words contain in them a smart and ●erious expost●lation of our blessed saviour , with such who pro●essed great kindness to him in their wor●s , but shew'd no regard to his commands . they owned him to be the messias , and depended upon him for their happiness , and were willing enough to be known to be his disciples and followers , but yet his doctrine made little impression on their minds , and scarce any alteration in the course of their lives . they loved to be where christ was , to hear his doctrine , to see his miracles , to observe his conversation , to admire what he did and said ; but herein lay the whole of their religion ; for although they named the name of christ , and it may be rejoyced and glory'd in it , yet they did not depart from iniquity . now , considering the circumstances of that time , this seems to have been an unaccountable kind of hypocrisie . for their calling christ lord , lord , spoiled their interest in this world ; and not doing what he said , debarr'd them from the hopes of happiness by him in another . for , if they own'd him to be their lord , they were bound to believe him in what he declared ; and there is nothing he doth more expresly warn men of , than hoping to be saved by him without obeying his commands . not every one that saith unto me lord , lord , shall enter into the kingdom of heaven , but he that doth the will of my father which is in heaven . which is shorter expressed , but to the same purpose here by s. luke ; and why call ye me lord , lord , and do not the things which i say ? as though he had said to them , it is in vain to think to please and flatter me with your words , when your actions are disagreeable to them . to call me lord , lord , is to own my authority in commanding you ; but to do this , and yet wilfully to disobey me , is to shew your hypocrisie and folly together . which expostulation of christ was not confined to that time , no more than his commands were ; but it hath always the same force , where persons are guilty of the same folly. for although now none can plead for themselves , as they did , we have eaten and drank in thy presence , and thou hast taught in our streets ; yet we may build as presumptuous hopes upon privileges of another kind , which may be as ineffectual to our salvation , as these were when christ said to those very persons , depart from me all ye workers of iniquity . we all bear the name of christ , and own his doctrine , and partake of his sacraments ; and in one of them profess to eat and drink in his presence , and at his table , and renew our solemn baptismal vow and covenant with him as our lord and saviour ; and so we pray to him and profess to depend upon him for our salvation ; and therefore we are as deeply concerned in the scope and design of these words , as ever the jews were to whom our saviour spake them . but that i may the better apply them to the consciences of all those who hear me this day , and to make my discourse more usefull and practical , i shall single out some of the most remarkable instances of those duties , which christ hath enjoyned to his disciples of all ages and nations ; and then shew how just and reasonable it is that all who call christ lord , lord , should do what he saith about them ; and yet that the generality of those who do so , do very little mind or regard them . the main part of those duties which chri●t requires from all his disciples may be reduced to these three heads : i. such as relate to the government of our passions . ii. to the government of our speech . iii. to the government of our actions ; so , as that we lead a sober , righteous and godly life . i. as to the government of our passions . and that may be considered three ways . . as to the things which are apt to provoke us . . as to the things which are apt to tempt us . . as to the things which concern us , in respect of our condition in this world. ( . ) as to the things which are apt to provoke us . such is the frame of human nature , that we are very tender and sensible not only of any real hurt or injury which may be done to our bodies or estates , but of any thing we apprehend may do so , or that touches upon our reputation . and where the injury is real , yet that which often touches most to the quick , is the contempt which is expressed in it . for , if the same thing be done by one , we are satisfied did it not out of any unkindness or ill-will , the matter is easily passed over , and makes no breach or difference between them . but , if it be intended for an affront , although it be never so little , then the brisker mens spirits are , and the higher opinion they have of themselves , so much deeper impression is presently made in the mind ; and that inflames the heart and puts the blood and spirits into a quicker motion in order to the returning the affront on him that gave it . but there is a considerable difference in mens tempers to be observed ; some are very quick and hasty , others are slower in the beginning , but more violent afterwards ; the passions of the former are like a flash of gun-powder , which begins suddenly , makes a great noise and is soon over ; but the other are like a burning fever , which is lower at first , but rises by degrees , till the whole body be in a flame . the one is more troublesome , but the other more dangerous ; the care of the one must be in the beginning ; of the other in the continuance of passion , lest it turn into hatred , malice and revenge . but what through the natural heat of temper in some , the jealousie and suspicion in others , the crossing each others designs and inclinations , the misconstruction of words and actions , the carelesness of some and the frowardness and peevishness of others , mankind are apt to lead very uneasie lives with respect to one another ; and must do so unless they look after the government of themselves as to real or imaginary provocations . there are two things i shall therefore speak to , ( . ) that it is reasonable that a restraint should be laid on mens violent passions . ( . ) that christ hath laid no unreasonable restraint upon them . ( . ) that it is reasonable that a restraint should be laid on mens violent passions . and that on a twofold account . ( . ) with respect to the common tranquility of humane life . ( . ) to the particular tranquility of our own minds . ( . ) to the common tranquility of human life . the great comfort and pleasure of it depends on the mutual benefit men have from society with one another . this cannot be enjoy'd without particular persons abridging themselves of some natural rights for a common benefit . if we could suppose no such thing as government or society among men , we must suppose nothing but disorder and confusion ; every one being his own judge and executioner too in case of any apprehended wrong or injury done to him . which condition of life having all imaginable uneasiness attending it , by perpetual fears and jealousies and mistrusts of one anothers powers , there was a necessity that they must come to some common terms of agreement with each other ; so as to fix their rights and to establish a just measure of proceeding in case of wrong . for every man's revenging his own injury according to his own judgment , was one of those great inconveniencies , which was to be remedied by society , laws and government . and mankinds entering into society for this end , doth suppose it possible for them to keep under their violent passions ; and to submit their private injuries to the equal arbitration of laws ; or else they are made to no purpose , unless it be to punish men for what they cannot avoid . for many of those crimes which all the laws of mankind do punish , as wilfull murder , may be committed through the force of a violent passion ; and if that be irresistible , then the laws which punish it are not founded on reason and justice . but if such laws are very just and reasonable , as no doubt they are , then all mankind are agreed that mens violent passions may and ought to be restrained in some cases . the only dispute then remaining is , whether it may not be as fitting to restrain our passions in such cases , which the law takes no notice of . for , there is a superiour law , viz. that of reason whereby we are to be governed ; and the publick laws do not forbid or punish offences because they are unreasonable , but because they are dangerous and hurtfull to human society . and and if it be allow'd to be fitting and necessary for men to keep their passions within the compass of laws , why not within the conduct of reason ? especially , when a great deal of disorder may happen , and disturbance of the peace and quiet of human society , by the violence of passions , which may be out of the reach of human laws . and every man is bound by virtue of his being in society , to preserve the tranquility of it as much as he can . ( . ) the tranquility of our own minds depends upon it . and certainly , that is a very reasonable motive for the government of our passions , since those are the occasions of all the storms and tempests within our breasts . for the government of reason is calm , even and ser●ne , full of peace and all the blessings which ●ollow it ; but the government of passion is tyrannical and boisterous , uncertain and troublesome ; never free from doing mischief to it self or others . the greate●t pleasure of passion is revenge ; and yet that is so unnatural , so sul● of anxiety and fear of the consequents of it , that he who can subdue this unruly passion hath more real pleasure and satisfaction in his mind , than he who seeks to gratifie it most . for , if he be disappointed , then he must be uneasie by failing of his end ; if he be not , then he is tormented with the apprehensions of what may follow it . so that there is nothing which conduces more to the greatest blessing of life , the tranquility of our minds , than the government of our passions doth . ( . ) let us now see , whether our saviour hath laid any unreasonable restraint upon our passions . there are three things he particularly requires in order to the government of them . ( . ) meekness . ( . ) patience . ( . ) love of enemies . and i hope to make it appear , that there is nothing unreasonable in any of these . ( . ) meekness . which is such a gentleness of temper , as makes a man not easie to be provoked . there is a great deal of difference between meekness and stupidity ; the one arises from a natural dulness and insensibility ; the other from a fixed , calm and composed temper of mind ; and is founded on two , which are both wise things , especially when they go together ; and those are , consideration and resolution . for , nothing tends to the abating the heat and violence of passion so much , as consideration doth , and resolution makes it effectual . if it were nothing but the time it gives , that is of great force for letting out the inward fermentation , which will spend it self in great measure , if vent be given to it . whereas , if it be kept in and suffer'd to work upon it self , it turns from a hasty passion to malice and revenge . but consideration is of greater use , as it suggests arguments from reason to quell and allay the sudden heat of passions ; as , that , it exposes the weakness of our minds , in not being able to keep under that which they ought to govern and have power to command ; that , it is a great folly to disorder our selves , at the pleasure of our enemies ; or , at such accidents , which we can neither prevent , nor remove ; that , the wisest thing we can do , is not to betray our folly to others , if we cannot wholly suppress it in our selves ; that , we weaken the reins of the government of our selves , by not holding them with a stricter hand ; and make our passions more seditious and turbulent by letting them alone ; that , the more we try to command our selves the easier we shall do it ; that our most rebellious passions will submit , if they find we are in earnest ; that it is the way to make that a real injury by being disturbed , which would lose its force by being neglected ; that , while we are true to our selves , we are out of the reach of our enemies , and then we are most under their power , when we are least under our own ; that , the great work of religion lies within us ; and that we are in a very ill condition if neither reason no religion can keep us in order . by such considerations as these , men are brought to a more calm and composed temper , which is that meekness which our saviour requires . and to this he seems to appropriate the happiness of this life . blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth . what doth our blessed saviour mean by inheriting the earth ? is there any thing like blessedness to be expected in this troublesome and sinfull world ? not absolutely ; but comparatively there may ; and if there be any thing like it to be had here , the meek may put in for the largest share of it . for they have more friends and fewer enemies than the rest of the world ; they enjoy themselves with more quietness and satisfaction , and are less disturbed at the noise and tumultuous passions of the rest of mankind . o happy temper ! to be calm and easie in good humour , in the midst of disorders and provocations ; to enjoy the peace and serenity of the regions above , in the midst of the storms and tempests here below ; to raise the mind above the power of detraction ; and thereby to suffer the venom of malicious tongues to scatter and disperse it self in the open air , if it doth not return to the breasts of those from whom it came . s. james might therefore well call it the meekness of wisdom , not only because wisdom directs it , but that it consists very much in the exercise of it . . patience . for let persons be endued with the spirit of meekness , yet the world is so froward and ha●d to be pleased , so captious and ill-natured , so ready to apprehend an injury and to revenge it , that there is great need of patience , not only in bearing the troubles of life , but in sorbearing to return evil for evil . and this is that which our saviour particularly requires of his disciples . he strictly forbids all causeless anger , all contumelious and reproachfull words ; and when injuries are done us , he commands us that we resist not evil ; but if one smite us on the right cheek , to turn to him the other also . and if any man will sue thee at the law and take away thy coat , let him have thy cloak also . and whosoever will compel thee to go a mile , go with him twain . now here lies a real difficulty ; for this seems to go beyond the bounds of humane patience : to pass by affronts without taking notice of them ; not to resent the injuries of those whom no kindness can oblige , seems to be a great degree of vertue ; and it is so ; but to bind hand and foot when we receive them , to invite them to do more , and to offer our selves to double the proportion , seems wholly unaccountable to reason , and inconsistent with the wisdom of christianity . the true account of the meaning of these commands is this ; our saviour takes it for granted , that all considerable matters of right and wrong were determin'd by laws ; as the most equal measures between parties ; and these he meddled not with ; for , saith he , to one that desired him to interpose in such a matter ; who made me a judge or a divider among you ? therefore he doth not abridge his followers from making use of these laws and courts of jud●cature , which are established for matters of common justice and equity ; but all the laws in the world cannot alter the temper of some mens minds , who are peevish and quarrelsome , who are provoked on any slight occasion , and it may be are provoked if you gave them none . like the roman orator , seneca mentions , who was angry with every one that came near him ; and when a client sought to humour him in every thing , he was at last angry with him , because he did not provoke him . there are some tempers so easily provoked , and yet so hard to be reconciled , as if their original sin did not lie in concupiscence but in ill-nature . and yet , even that is a kind of concupiscence ; for the stoicks defined anger by libido ; and said it was a lust of revenge ; and so far , seem'd more unreasonable than that of intemperance ; because this aims only at pleasure , in things which are apt to produce it , ( however mean and unreasonable ) but the other is an extravagant and unnatural pleasure , which arises from anothers pain ; and dissers from the other , as the pleasures of evil spirits do from those of brutes . but if we happen to converse among such who take pleasure in doing us injuries upon every slight occasion , by some personal affronts , or litigious suits , or unjust exactions in ordinary cases ; what are we to do ? may we not right our selves by retaliating the injury upon them ? since the law of moses did allow of retaliation in case of real injuries , an eye for an eye ; a tooth for a tooth ; and so by an equitable construction of the law , it may extend to personal affronts . thus the jews indeed understood it ; but if our saviour had allow'd their interpretation , he would never have said , but i say unto you , that ye resist not evil . there was a spirit of revenge in them , so as they would pass by no kind of injuries , although they were such , which the law had made no provision for ; and this our saviour condemns . but here comes a hard case to be resolv'd ; not so in it self , but the custom of the world hath made it so ; for when a mistaken notion of honour and conscience come in competition , it is not an easie thing to forgo honour for conscience sake . the case is , concerning contumelious words and personal affronts , which are given to men of honour . is it unlawfull for them to right themselves according to the receiv●d customs among them , when the law takes no notice of such injuries , and so seems to leave it to them ? this is the case ; and i have put it as fair as the thing will bear . i might say in general that our saviour makes no distinction of mens honour and quality in his commands ; and that for all that i can see , such must be saved on the same terms with others ; that honour is but an imaginary thing when it slands in competition with the rule of conscience ; and that no custom is to be observed against reason and religion : but here lies the insuperable difficulty ; how the exposing one anothers lives for the sake of reproachfull words or personal affronts , can be reconciled to this command of christ ? for my part , i cannot see how it is possible to do it ; since in this case , there is a studied and premeditated design of revenge in the case of such injuries which are here mention'd ; and that of the highest nature , and beyond any proportion between the offence and the punishment , which all men out of passion , think , in common justice ought to be consider'd . i know some casuists in the church of rome , allow it to be lawfull to take away the lives of any who give them contume●ious words ; but these have been condemned as very loose casuists ; and they have found out a subtle way of directing the intention , whereby to keep from breaking the laws of christ ; but this is too subtle to be reconciled with the plainness of his laws ; and they all deny it to be lawfull by way of revenge . others say much better , that although nature may seem to give an injured person a right to vindicate himself by the best means he can ; yet that right is so restrained and limited by christ's commands in this case , that it is by no means lawful for christians to use it ; and to pretend to do it for a reparation of honour , à ratione & pietate valdè alienam videtur , is repugnant both to reason and religion ; saith one , who very well understood the rules of both . but all the pretended right of nature is taken away by laws , and where those declare it to be wilfull murder to take away the life of another on such accounts as these , there is no colour left for natural right , which supposes no determination by laws . i consess it requires a more than ordinary degree of christian fortitude as well as patience , to be able to despise such a prevailing custom . but if men hope to be saved by christ , they must observe his commands ; and if they ence declare , that they are resolved to do so in this particular , ( if they do the same in all others ) it will be then thought to be conscience and not cowardice for them to decline a challenge ; and that upon good grounds they decline such a custom , which no good man could ever approve , nor any wise man defend . . love of enemies . this seems to be harder yet . is it not enough to bear them ; but must we love them too ? yes , christ hath strictly required it . but i say unto you , love your enemies ; and again in this very chapter , but love your enemies . if he had bid men love their friends and take heed of their enemies , there are some ages of the world , wherein this had been no impertinent advice . but how can those be supposed to love their enemies , who hardly love any thing but themselves ? self-opinion , self-will , self-interest prevail over the far-greatest part of mankind ; i wish i could not say , even among those who call christ lord , lord. but self-love as natural as it is , must be artificially disguised ; for , if it appears too openly , it meets with so much self-love in others , that it will not be easily born . therefore the most crafty lovers of themselves , if they design to have the love of others , must conceal their inward passion . for , he that appears to set up himself , is certain to make the rest of mankind his enemies ; for , even those who would do the same , will be the most displeased with those who do it . therefore the most certain way to honour and universal esteem , is to mind the good of others more than our own ; to be just and charitable and kind to all ; and to oblige as many as we can , without partiality or prejudice . and this , i say , is that love of enemies which our saviour requires , which doth not suppose the same kind of affection to them which we have to our friends , for that is grounded an mutual love and good-will to each other ; which , if we suppose in enemies , we suppose a contradiction ; for that is to suppose them not to be enemies , but friends . what then is it which our saviour means ? it is certainly an universal charity , or a readiness of mind to do good to all , although they have personally provoked , or injured us . and so christ himself explains it , by doing good to our enemies , praying for them and relieving them in their necessities ; and he proposes the best example in the world for our imitation ; and that of god himself , who maketh his sun to rise on the evil and the good , and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust . but none can suppose that the righteous and holy god , can have the same love or kindness for the evil , which he hath for the good , or for the unjust , which he hath for the just. so that this precept , which being misunderstood , seems to be irreconcilable to human nature , contains in it , nothing but what all mankind approve in others , as unwilling as they are to practise it themselves . and now it is time to make a stand , and to look about us , for , i have gone through our saviour's commands with respect to the things which are apt to provoke us . and where are those christians to be found , who do what christ hath said herein , who do yet every day call him lord , lord ? if peevishness and frowardness , perpetual uneasiness and discontent ; if rancor and bitterness , strife and envying , faction and animosity ; if impatience of apprehended injuries , and the making of enemies , instead of loving them , were the marks of good christians , we should find number enough , even among those who pretend to reformation . we profess to thank god for a late great deliverance from the hands of our enemies , i mean as to our religion ; ( and truly there appears more and more reason for it , since it is so much more evident that the design was no less than a total subversion of our religion . ) but what a sad requital is this , for so great mercies , to break out into factions and parties , instead of pursuing the common interest of our religion ; instead of laying aside differences about religion , to increase them ; nay to make religion it self not only the subject of their quarrels , but of their scorn and contempt ? what can be said or hoped for , as to such a froward , unthankful , atheistical generation of men ? thanks be to god , there are not wanting some extraordinary examples of true piety and goodness among us ; and of meekness , patience and universal charity ; and truly there needs a great deal , to bear up against the daring and insolent profaneness and irreligion of others . when i once see a true spirit of reformation prevail among us , not meerly as to doctrines , but as to mens lives and tempers ; when i see them more zealous for god and religion , than for the interest of particular parties ; when i see them really promoting peace and unity , and not making a pretence of it to serve private ends , i may then hope for a lasting settlement of the true religion among us . but till then — ( . ) i proceed to the second head of our saviour's commands , and that is as to such things which tempt us . s. james saith , every man is tempted , when he is drawn aside of his own lust and inticed . lust is the ungoverned desire of sensual pleasure . now , as to this , christ hath laid so strict a command , as seems very hard for humane nature to observe . for he not only forbids the act of adultery , but the tendencies to it ; viz. the impurity of the inward desires , and of looks and glances , and makes these to be adultery in the heart . what is that ; for adultery is an outward deliberate act , and hath injustice as well as uncleanness in it . but desires and looks are sudden and transient things , which may leave no permanent effect behind them . however , our saviour , to shew how much god abhors impurity , ( who sees into the secret thoughts and intentions of the heart , ) declares that the unmortified desires and inward lusts are very displeasing to god ; and therefore that those who hope to see god , must be pure in heart . which as it implies a sincere endeavour to suppress all inward motions which are contrary to it , is both a reasonable and necessary duty . but the hardest part of christ's commands in this matter , is that which requires us to pluck out our right eyes , and to cut off right hands : must the blind and the lame only go to heaven ? but he speaks of such sinsull inclinations in us , which seem as delightfull and usefull to us as to the pleasures of life , as a right eye or a right hand ; yet we must part with them , if we ever hope to get to h●aven . not , by any one single act like the cutting off a hand , or plucking out an eye , but by a serious , constant and sincere endeavour to mortifie and subdue them . and if this be thought hard , the consideration of future happiness and misery ought to reconcile us to it ; and surely it is reasonable we should part with something which is pleasant to us here , for the sake of an infinitely greater pleasure in another world ; since this is only a sensual pleasure , which cannot be pursued without disturbance of the mind , and can be enjoy'd but for a little time ; and the other is no less than eternal felicity of soul and body together . ( . ) as to the things which concern us , as to our condition in this world. there is no precept of christ which seems more inconsistent with the wisdom of this world , than this doth . for , as that lies in taking great care for the future ; so our saviour on the contrary seems to allow none at all . therefore i say unto you , take no thought for your life , what ye shall eat , or what ye shall drink , nor yet , for your body , what ye shall put on . what doth our saviour mean by this ? would he have all christians live like the young ravens , meerly upon providence ? or , as the lilies of the field , which grow and flourish and yet neither toil nor spin ? but man is an intelligent creature , and apt to forecast and contrive things for his future advantage , and god seems to have left things very much to his own care and providence ; and generally speaking , mens condition in this world is according to it . what then ; doth our saviour indulge men in a careless , easie , unthinking life ? or , require that his disciples thoughts ought to be wholly taken up with matters of religion ? not , if s. paul knew his meaning ; for he saith , those who provide not for their own , have denied the faith and are worse than infidels . but this only seems to make the difficulty greater . therefore to clear it , we must attend to our saviour's scope and design ; which was , to perswade his disciples to lay up their treasure in heaven , to seek the kingdom of god and his righteousness in the first place ; and then represents this world and another as two opposite interests , so that one cannot serve two masters ; which implies a contradiction to each other . so that what follows must be understood in such a sense , as is inconsistent with the main duty , of looking after heaven as our happiness ; and therefore ought not to be understood of a prudent , necessary care , but of an anxious , solicitous , distrustfull care , which implies that we place our happiness too much here . and therefore s. luke subjoyns these commands to the parable of the rich man , whose heart was in his barns and store-houses , and took great care to lay in provision enough for a sensual and voluptuous life : but to shew the unspeakable folly of such vain contrivances , it was said to him , this night shall thy soul be required of thee ; and then whose shall these things be which thou hast provided ? ii. i come now to our saviour's commands with respect to the government of our speech . and he seems to be very severe as to this , when he saith , that every idle word that men shall speak , they shall give account thereof at the day of judgment . what a heavy account then , are those to make , whose time is so much taken up with idle and impertinent talk ; and who can hardly forbear it , when they should be most serious ? is it unlawfull then to speak any more than is just necessary to express our minds ? may we not imploy our speech sometimes for our innocent diversion and entertainment if we keep within the bounds of prudence and religion ? i do not see that our saviour forbids it . for the idle words he speaks of there , are profane , false , abusive , malicious reproaches of religion and the means to confirm it ; as appears by his bringing it just after the mention of the blasphemy against the holy ghost . so that all such abuses of speech which entrench on piety and good manners , or truth and sincerity , are certainly forbidden by him . but there is one particular vice of conversation , which he hath with most force of argument forbidden ; and yet ( which is a great shame to any that would be called christians ) none more common among some who would pretend to understand the methods of conversation and the best modes of speaking ; and that is the profane custom of swearing . i take it for granted , that all are christians among us , ti●l they disown it themselves ; and however men may act , they are not willing to renounce all hopes of salvation by christ : i beseech them then to consider , what a contempt of his authority is implied in this , too fashionable sort of profaneness ? the other duties i have mentioned , have a great difficulty in them , as to our tempers and inclinations ; but nothing of that nature can be so much as pretended as to this . for no man could ever say , that he had a swearing constitution , or that it was an infirmity of his nature . there is nothing in it but the tyranny of a very bad custom ; which every prudent man , as well as good christian , will see cause to break . but what a reproach is it , to the very profession of christianity among us , for so plain , so easie a command of christ to be broken so commonly , so unconcernedly , so impertinently , as is every day done ; and yet they call christ lord , lord ? in all ages , there were some pretended christians , who did not sincerely obey the commands of our saviour ; but their hypocrisie was of a finer and more artificial make ; this is gross and rude , without the common respect which is due to the religion we all profess to be that , or hope to be saved by . some say , a custom in it self is no sin , because it is no act ; but certainly a customary breach of a plain command is so much greater a sin , as it implies a greater contempt of him that made it ; and when custom hath taken away the sense of the fault , it is so much more aggravated by it . it is really a matter to be wonder'd at , that among persons professing a better sort of breeding , as well as christianity ; a vitious custom , so untempting in it self , so unbecoming the decency of conversation , so affronting to the divine majesty , so directly contrary to the commands of christ , should get so deep a rooting in ordinary conversation , that it seems almost impossible to be reformed . but till men do think of breaking off such a practice as this , i despair of ever seeing them reform other things which have a deeper root in their natural inclinations , and have greater advantages as to this world. iii. the commands of christ extend to the whole course of our actions ; so , as that we lead a sober , righteous and godly life . as to sobriety . take heed to your selves , saith christ , lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting and drunkenness . these are somewhat hard words for that which our age hath learnt to express in much softer terms of eating and drinking well . luxury seems a thing quite forgotten to be a sin , among those who are most quilty of it ; and intemperance thought so uncertain a thing , as though it were impossible to tell when persons are guilty of it . 't is true , that temperance may vary as to the degrees and limits of it ; and we do not pretend to define it by grains and scruples . but still there ought to be a governing our appetites according to reason , and that is temperance . but what is reason in this case ? some send us to the brutes to find out what reason is ; and they tell us , it lies in a plain simple diet , such as the beasts use , without provoking or raising the appetite . but i know not where god hath forbidden the use of art , as to our eating and drinking ; and if this were so , we must practice temperance only in the use of water and acorns . if meer satisfaction of nature were the exact rule of temperance , then eating or drinking any thing beyond it were a sin ; which would fill the minds of those who are afraid to sin , with infinite scruples ; and make all feasting unlawfull . yet our saviour was present at one in cana ●f galilee ; and did a miracle relating to it . but we need not run into niceties in this matter ; for , intemperance is either an over-charging of nature , so as to make it sink or totter under the load ; or it is a wanton humouring and pleasing the appetite , not , for the service of nature , but for the pleasure of eating and drinking ; or , it is as s. paul calls it , making a god of their belly , by sacrificing their time , their study , their estates in order to the filling and pleasing of it . any of these ways , it is no difficulty to understand what intemperance is ; i wish it were as easie to avoid it . . as to righteousness . our saviour hath given one admirable rule ; which all persons agree to be of excellent use in all contracts and transactions of men with one another ; v. . and as ye would that men should do to you , do ye also to them likewise . which is an universal rule of justice and equity , if it be understood of what we would have others to do to us according to reason , and not according to the partial affection we are apt to have to our selves . for this rule is founded upon the second great commandment , as our saviour calls it , thou shalt love thy neighbour as thy self . . as to godliness . he lays the foundation of that upon the first and great commandment , thou shalt love the lord thy god , with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy strength . we need not to question , but where-ever there is such a love of god , as is here required , there will be true godliness in all the parts of it . and where this is wanting , all external shews of devotion want the true life and spirit of it . for it is the love of god which makes all our weak and imperfect services to be acceptable to him ; and without it all our prayers and our fastings , and all other appearances of devotion , are empty and infipid formalities . not , but that the acts themselves are commendable ; but , they are like a body without a soul , dull and heavy ; or like the leaves of a tree in autumn , which make a great noise in the wind , but are dry , sapless and soon fall to the ground . but where the love of god prevails , it keeps up the life and order and vigour of devotion ; and preserves it from being tainted by hypocrisie , or choaked by the love of this world , or decaying from want of constancy and resolution . thus i have set before you some of the most remarkable duties of christianity ; not such as depend on the opinions and fancies of men ; but such as our blessed saviour , the great law-giver of his church , hath made the necessary conditions of our salvation by him . and what now can we say for our selves ? we do call christ lord , lord ; or else we renounce our baptismal vow , and all hopes of salvation by him . but can we say that we love god , when we love what he hates , viz. sin ? can we say , we love him with all our heart and soul , when our hearts are so much divided between him and the vanities of this world ? can we say , we love him with all our might , when our love to god is apt to grow cold and remiss upon any apprehension of difficulties ? can we say , that we love our neighbour as our selves , when we despise and scorn him , or over-reach and defraud him , or oppress and ruin him ? if it go not so far , are we as tender of his reputation as of our own ; as unwilling to see him injured , as ready to help him in his necessities , as we should desire it from others , if we were in the same circumstances ? if strict sobriety and temperance be the duties of christians , where are those virtues to be generally found ? i do not speak of particular persons ; but i am afraid , there is hardly such a thing left as a sober party among us . what profane , customary swearing is every-where to be met with ? what complaints are daily made of the abounding of all sorts of wickedness , even to an open scorn and contempt , not barely of christianity , but of any kind of religion ? for , many who have long denied the power , seem to be grown weary of the very form of godliness ; unless it serves some particular end and design . so that , if we look abroad in the world , we find little regard shew'd to the precepts of christ ; and yet those who commit these things call christ lord , lord. what is the meaning of all this gross hypocrisie ? nothing would have been thought more absurd or ridiculous , than for one who used no kind of abstinence , to be thought a pythagorean ; or one that indulged his passions à stoick ; or one who eats flesh and drinks wine a brachman , or banian . it is really as much for any one to break the known and particular precepts of christ , and yet desire to be thought a christian. for , a loose , profane and debauched christian , is a contradiction in morality ; it is to be a christian against christ , to call him lord , lord , and yet to defie his laws and authority . a star without light , a guide without eyes , a man without reason , a sun with nothing but spots , are not more absurd suppositions , than a christian without any grace or vertue . but let us say what we will , there are and will be such , who will own christ and call him lord , lord , and yet will not part with their sins for him . there were multitudes of such formerly who would lay down their lives for the ground he trod on , and yet would not mortifie one sin for his sake . the reason is still the same which our saviour mentions , they hope that calling him lord , lord , will make amends for all ; and yet it is not possible that fairer warning should be given to any , than he hath given in this case , that let them pretend what they will , he will say to them at ●he great day , depart from me all ye workers of iniquity . o dreadful sentence ! not , to be mention'd without horrour , not to be thought upon without astonishment . how miserable , for ever miserable , must their condition be , whom christ at that day shall bid to depart from him ! what is this , some will be apt to say , but to put all christians into utter despair ? for , who is there that can say , that he hath done all that christ hath said ? truly we have a sufficient ground for deep humility and serious repentance , and timely reformation . but there is a great difference between the failing of our duty and the works of iniquity ; between the infirmities of those who sincerely endeavour to do his will , and the presumptuous sins of those who despise it ; between sins committed and heartily repented of ; and sins habitually practised and continued in , without any marks of amendment . such must go out of this world in a state of sin , and therefore can expect nothing but that dreadfull sentence , which i tremble at the very thoughts of repeating . but there are others , who in the sincerity of ●heir hearts have endeavour'd to do his will ; and whose sincerity will be so far accepted by him , that he will say to them at that day , come ye blessed of my father , inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. to which god of his infinite mercy bring us through the mediation of christ jesus our lord. sermon viii . preached before the queen at white-hall , march the th , / ; . romans viii . . for , to be carnally minded is death ; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace . in th●se words is imply'd a distribution of mankind into those who are carnally and spiritually minded ; which distinction is so large and comprehensive , as to take in all sorts and conditions of men ; and of so great moment and importance , that their life or death , happiness or misery depend upon it . but , considering the mixture of good and evil in mankind , it is not an easie matter to set the bounds of the carnal and spiritual mind ; and considering the frequent impunity and security of bad men , and the fears and troubles , which the best are not exempted from , it seems next to impossible to make out ( at least as to this life ) that to be carnally minded is death , but to be spiritually minded is life and peace . yet , our apostle doth not seem to confine the consequences here mention'd to another world , ( altho' the full accomplishment of them be only there to be expected ; ) but if we attend to his scope and design in the end of the foregoing chapter , and the beginning of this , we shall find that even in this life the result of a carnal mind is a sort of a spiritual death ; and of a spiritual mind is life and peace : for , when st. paul in the ●h chapter had represented himself as carnal and sold under sin , although there were great strugglings between the convictions of his conscience , and the strength of carnal inclinations ; yet , as long as the latter prevailed so that he could not do the things that his mind and reason told him he ought to do ; but did those things which he was convinced be ought not to have done ; the more he reflected upon himself , the more sad and miserable he found his condition to be , as appears by that emphatical expression which follow'd upon it , o wretched man that i am , who shall deliver me from the body of this death ? but he no sooner finds hopes of delivery and escape out of that estate , but he breaks forth into transport of joy and inward satisfaction . thanks be to god who hath given us the victory through jesus christ our lord. not meerly a victory over death , but over sin too : and so he begins this chapter after a triumphant manner ; there is therefore no condemnation to them which are in christ jesus ; who walk not after the flesh , but after the spirit . for the lord of the spirit of life which was in christ jesus hath made me ●●ee from the law of sin and death : he that groaned under his captivity before to the law of sin , doth now rejoyce in his deliverance from it by the grace of the gospel . for , what could not be done by natural freedom , by the power of the law and the force of reason , is brought to pass by the assistance of divine grace given to the souls of men by jesus christ. for what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh : what was that which the law could not do ? it could awaken , convince , terrifie and confound the consciences of sinners under the sense and apprehension of their sins ; but it could neither satisfie the justice of god , nor the minds of men ; it could not remove the guilt , nor take away the force and power of sin. but god sending his own son in the likeness of sinfull flesh , and for sin condemned sin in the flesh ; i. e. jesus christ becoming an expiatory sacrifice for sin , took off the damning power of sin ; and by the prevailing efficacy of his grace subdued the strength and force of it to such a degree , that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us , who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit . how could this be , if st. paul still considered himself in the same condition he did in the foregoing chapter ? for if he were still in captivity to the law of sin in his members , how was it possible that the righteousness of the law should be fulfilled in him ? how could he walk not after the flesh but after the spirit , if the good which he would he did not , and the evil which he would not that he did ? for these things are so repugnant to each other , that when they are spoken of the same person , it must be under different considerations ; the one of him , as meerly under the power of the law ; the other , as under the grace and influence of the gospel . the one was like rough and a churlish sort of physick , which searches into every part , and puts all the ill humours of the body into motion , and makes a general disturbance and uneasiness within , but yet lets them remain where they were ; the other is like a gentle but more effecutal remedy , which carries off the strength and power of inward corruptions , and alters the habit and temper , and puts quite another disposition into us , which produces very different effects upon us . for , instead of horrour and despair , and inward anguish and confusion , there will follow a new life of joy and peace here , and eternal happiness hereafter . and this is what the apostle means in the words of the text ; to be carnally minded , &c. wherein are two things , which very much deserve our consideration . i. the different tempers of men's minds ; some are carnally and others spiritually minded . ii. the different consequences which follow them : to be carnally minded is death ; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace . i. the different tempers of men's minds . the different denominations are taken from the flesh and the spirit ; which are here represented as two principles so different from each other , that the same person cannot be supposed to be acted by both of them . for , as the apostle saith in the foregoing words , they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh ; but they that are after the spirit the things of the spirit . where the flesh , in a moral sense , takes in all our sensual inclinations which are sinfull either in their nature or degree . the spirit is that divine principle , which possesses the mind with the love and esteem of spiritual things , and keeps our natural inclinations within the compass of god's law. to be carnally minded , is to be under the influence of carnal things , so as to make the pursuit of them our chief design : to be spiritually minded is to have so deep and just a sense of god and his law upon our minds , as to make it our business to please him , and therefore to subdue all such inclinations which are repugnant to his will. but here lies the main difficulty ; how to judge concerning this matter so , as to be able to determine whether we our selves be carnally or spiritually minded . which is a thing of so great consequence for us to know , that the peace of our minds , the true comfort of our lives , our due preparation for death , and a happy eternity , do all depend upon . and yet that this is a real difficulty will appear from these considerations . ( . ) it requires a greater knowledge of our selves ( as to our spiritual condition ) than most persons in the world can pretend to . for it is not a slight and superficial view of our selves , not a transient , sudden reflection , nor a partial inquiry into our inward passions , and the course of our actions , which can make us capable of passing a true judgment upon the temper of our minds ; but there must be a true light , a serious and diligent search , frequent recollection , free and deliberate thoughts , long observation and due comparison of our selves with our selves and with the law of god , before we can form a just opinion as to the prevailing temper and disposition of our minds . it 's true , this is not necessary in all persons ; for some ( and i am afraid too many ) are so carnally minded , that the least reflection or consideration would make them see how bad their condition is . for , they have no true sense of god or religion at all ; they have no serious thoughts or apprehensions of divine and spiritual things ; this world they pretend to know something of , and have too great an esteem of the vanities and pleasures of it ; for these wholly take up their hearts and time ; and they have a savour and relish for any thing that tends to their greatness or honour or entertainment of their appetites or fancies here ; bu● if we speak to them of another world , of god and heaven and a spiritual disposition of soul ; either they look on us with amazement , as if they were insensible of such things ; or else with scorn and contempt , as if we went about to deceive them . alas ! they are too wise to be imposed upon by us ; and they have other things to mind ( i am sure not greater or weightier ) which take up all their time ; and so what through the business and the impertinencies of this world , their time passeth away as a table that is told ; and as though it were a pleasant tale , they are troubled only to think it will be so soon at an end. but these are not the persons , who require any such care to pass a right judgment upon them ; for they can pretend to nothing that is spiritual , as to the tempers and dispositions of their minds ; and therefore such as these must be set aside , for it is too apparent that they are only sensual and carnally minded . but as the papists distinguish of the body of christ , so may we of the carnal mind ; there is a gross and capernaitical sense ; and there is a more refined and ( if i may use the expression ) a more spiritual sense of it . for altho' it be a great absurdity in them to suppose that a meer body can be after the manner of a spirit ; yet it is not so to suppose a carnal mind to have a mixture of some spiritual qualities and dispositions in it . and this makes the difference so much harder to be perceived between the carnally and spiritually minded ; since there are the same faculties of perception , reasoning , and application in both ; and the same common principles of religion may be owned by both ; which may in reason be supposed to make some impression on the minds of the more ingenuous part of mankind , who are not given over to such a reprobate sense as the former were . now , how to distinguish between frequent good impressions on the mind , and an habitual temper and disposition , is not so easie to all who are concerned to distinguish them . and yet a person may be throughly convinced of his sins , and tremble at the apprehension of the justice and severity of god against them ; he may have many checks and reluctancies of conscience while he goes on to commit them ; he may sigh and groan and lament under the wretchedness of his condition by his love of sin ; and yet may love his sins all the while more than god or heaven , or any thing in competition with them . the difference doth not lie in the nature or number of the impressions from without , but in the inward principle of action . a cistern may be full of water falling down from heaven , which may run as long as that holds which fell into it ; but a spring hath it rising up within , and so continues running when the other is spent . a carnal mind may have many spiritual convictions , and good motions and inclinations ; but after a time they wear off and leave no lasting effect behind them ; but where there is a spring in the soul , there is a fresh and continual supply of such inclinations , as keep up a constant course of a spiritual life ; which our saviour calls rivers of living water . i confess it is hard to determine what a habit or principle abiding in our minds is ; yet the scripture doth evidently suppose such a thing , when it speaks of the new birth , and the new life , and the new creature , and the children of god ; all which are very insignificant terms , if there be not under them something answerable to the first principles of life ; and if there be not a divine spirit dwelling and acting in the souls of good men , and raising them up above carnal and sensual objects to things divine and spiritual , and carrying them through the passage of this world so as to prepare them for a better . but yet there may be many things which carry some resemblance to this principle within , which come not up to it . there may be such principles of education and good manners , such awakenings of conscience , such a strength of natural reason and common ingenuity , as may carry one on to do some very good things , and yet he may fall short of having a true principle of spiritual life in him . but then , there must be another principle within , which contradicts this , and prevails over it , and carries him on to the love of sin , which proves too strong for the love of god and the due regard to spiritual things . the result of this discourse is , since the carnal mind is not to be taken meerly for such a one which stands out in opposition to the gospel , nor for such a one which is insensible of spiritual things ; but such as may consist with a common profession of religion , and have the same convictions and good impressions which others have ; it doth require a more than ordinary acquaintance with our selves to be able to judge aright , whether the temper of our minds be carnal or spiritual . . but this is not all ; for , since there is so great a mixture of good and evil in the better sort of mankind , there is required not barely knowledge of our selves , but a good judgment too to adjust the proportions of good and evil in particular persons , so as to be able to judge whether we are carnally or spiritually minded . for , as those who are carnal , while they follow their carnal inclinations , may have many inward strugglings by spiritual convictions ; so those who are spiritually minded may meet with many combats from the flesh , which may be troublesome , where it cannot prevail . but there is a great difference between the spirit struggling against the flesh in the carnally minded , and the flesh struggling against the spirit in those who are spiritually minded . for , where there is no perfect victory , there will be some opposition ; and the best have so many failings to complain of in this world ; so many infirmities and defects in their good actions ; so many passions not brought into their due order ; so many omissions of personal and relative duties ; such variety of tempers and weakness of resolution ; such coldness in devotion and unreasonable dejections of mind ; so many unaccountable fears , and such dreadfull apprehensions of death and the consequences of it ; that these things must make great abatements as to such as are truly spiritually minded . but by all these things the difficulty still increaseth , and therefore it is time to come to the resolution of it ; and that will be by shewing that the difference between the carnal and spiritual mind lies in these three things . . in the deliberate judgment and choice . . in the prevailing interest . . in the constant rule and measure of actions . . in the deliberate judgment and choice . for the main difference as to the carnal and spiritual mind , lies in the different end which is aimed at by them . where the chief end is the pleasing our selves , and the enjoying of any thing as our happiness under the supream good , whatever thoughts and intentions we may at some times have , to repent of our sins , and turn our souls from the love of sin to the love of god , as long as we continue pursuing a wrong end , we have too great reason to conclude our minds to be yet carnal and sold under sin , for while the apostle represents himself so , he tells us he had his conscience thoroughly awakened with the sense of his sins , even of those which the world is least apt to be sensible of , inward and secret sins ; he was not only convinced of the excellency and purity of the law , but had some pleasure and satisfaction in it ; he had some hearty desires to be rid of his beloved sins ; but yet they were too hard for him , he sighed and lamented under his deplorable condition ; but till the grace of god came to set him free , he was in a miserable and hopeless state. but how is it , that the grace of god thus refines and purifies the minds of men , so as of carnal to make them spiritual , when the same passions and inclinations remain ? a change there must be , and that real and spiritual , and therefore in our best faculties , viz. our understandings and our wills ; not by a revelation of new objects to the mind , nor by offering any force upon the will ; but by fixing the judgment of the mind and the choice of the will upon the best and most desirable objects , which is god himself , as the supreme good. the turn of the soul which makes one spiritually minded , must not be only from gross and sensual inclinations , but from every other kind of good , which stands in competition with the supreme . a truly spiritual mind is one that is possessed with the love of god above all , and that values other things , as they tend to the enjoyment of him. god must be the only center of his hopes and designs ; for in him alone his true happiness consists : as the psalmist expresses it ; whom have i in heaven but thee ? and there is none upon earth i desire besides thee . whatever falls short of this , may agree to a carnal mind ; but a carnal mind can never love god as he ought to be loved ; not with a supreme transcendent degree of love , which is alone proper and suitable to him . all other kind of love is beneath his infinite goodness and perfections ; and to love him as we do his creatures , is to do him the greatest dishonour , for it levels their perfections , and supposes them to deserve the same degree of affection from us . but there may be many spiritual notions in men's minds about god and religion ; about mystical unions , and the participations of divine love ; many seeming spiritual raptures and ecstasies , and yet there may not be this spiritual mind . for the heats of enthusiasm may seem to be very spiritual , but are of another kind ; they are spiritual , as they are the effects of a great heating of the spirits by the force of a vehement imagination ; which hath been often accompanied with as vehement an inclination to sensual pleasures ; which shews the plain difference between an exalted fancy and a spiritual mind . a spiritual mind is such a one as is not only throughly convinced of the reality of spiritual things ; but of their excellency and desirableness , above any others that can be offer'd to our choice . it sees through all the glittering vanities of this world ; and soars above the most tempting and bewitching follies of mankind here : it frequently retires from the noise and confusion , the hurry and vexation of worldly affairs , that it may converse more freely with invisible objects ; not meerly by way of contemplation , but by raising the affections of the soul towards them , as the things which it hath chosen for its happiness . and this makes a wonderfull alteration in the thoughts that these different tempers have concerning the same things . i do not deny but those who have carnal minds may have some raised and spiritual thoughts , but they are too cold and speculative ; they may have noble and refined speculations about the invisible world ; may be fully convinced that the things which are seen , could not be what they are , were it not for the things which are not seen ; and that the things which are not seen , are of incomparably greater value than those which are so much more admired , because they are seen . but we must not conclude , that because men do really believe spiritual things , therefore they are spiritually minded , ( for that were to suppose all to be saints who are not atheists ; ) but there must be such a due preference in our minds , of that invisible and eternal state , above all that is accounted great and desirable here , as gives a just denomination to one that he is spiritually minded ; i. e. that his mind and soul is fixed upon another world as his proper happiness , and other things are regarded and valued in subserviency to it . . a spiritual mind is discerned by the prevailing interest . for , as long as we are made up of flesh and spirit , there will and must be a combat between them : for the flesh lusteth against the spirit , and the spirit against the flesh ; and these are contrary the one to the other ; so that ye cannot do the things that ye would : and yet the same apostle soon after adds , they that are christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts ; the meaning is , that , in some particular instances and less remarkable cases , the flesh may sometimes be too hard for the spirit ; but in all notorious instances of the lusts of the flesh , which he reckons up ; and in the main issue of all lesser combats the spirit will be too hard for the flesh in those who are spiritually minded ; as the flesh will be too hard for the spirit at last in those who are carnally minded . if we look on them in the time of the combat , it will be hard to judge which is most likely to prevail ; but those may have the better in some particular skirmishes , who may lose very much in the state of the war ; a good man may be foiled by surprise or under some disadvantage , but he will recover himself , and , it may be , gain ground by his falls ; and a bad man may in some fits of devotion seem so spiritually minded , that one might be apt to think he were quite changed , till he returns to his former practices . if we had been to judge of ahab in the time of his humiliation ; and of david in the time of his impenitency after his sins of adultery and murther , we should have thought in common justice and charity , the latter had been the carnal , and the former the spiritual minded man. but it was quite otherwise ; which shews that we are not to judge of men's spiritual condition by sudden and violent motions whether good or bad ; but by that interest which prevails with them in the whole course of their lives : to give a general character of a man from some violent passion against the tenour of his life , would be like drawing the picture of a man in a fit of an epilepsy , or a convulsive motion of his face . and to believe a man to be a good man , because he hath some good moods and passionate fits of devotion , is , as if we should take a piece of rotten wood for a true phosphorus , because it shines sometimes ; or suppose judas to be a saint , because he was so much in our saviour's company . the inward habits and dispositions of men's minds may be cover'd over and disguised a great while ; but a tempting occasion lays them open ; as no doubt judas did not get his habit of covetousness of a sudden , but it was still growing and ripening under a fair appearance ; and when the proper season came , the secret malignity brake forth ; and the temptation of thirty pieces of silver discover'd the baseness and hypocrisie of his heart . sometimes the vein of hypocrisie lies deep , and is cover'd over with such a fair out-side , that no one can have reason to mistrust it , till it discovers it self , and then the corruption is found so loathsome , as to render ordinary sincerity suspicious . but this is a common fault , either to be too easily deceived , or too unreasonably mistrustfull ; there is no certainty in a deduction from particulars , but where the causes are equal and necessary . it is as absurd an inference that there is no such thing as a spiritul mind , because some who have pretended to it have been found carnal ; as that there is no such thing as common honesty among men , because some who have long born the name of honest men have been found great cheats and impostors . but when a predominant habit doth discover it self , the person must bear that title and denomination which it gives him . . a spiritual mind is known by the general conformity of actions to a divine and spiritual rule ; and so a carnal mind by following the bent and inclinations of the flesh. and there lies a great part of the difference ; for such who lay no restraint upon their natural inclinations must needs be carnally minded ; because the flesh , as st. chrysostom observes , is not taken , by st. paul , meerly for the body , but for the corrupt part of our selves , as consisting of soul and body . it is observed by cicero . de rep. that mankind came into the world in a very ill condition , with a body naked , frail and infirm , with a mind subject to troubles , dejected with fears , impatient of labour , prone to lust ; but in the midst of all this , there is a certain divine flame of wit and understanding , which lies as it were buried and overwhelmed ; but with great care and industry may be so preserved and improved , as to command our appetites and governour passions . but alas ! how little doth the reason of mankind signifie to the greatest part of them ? it helps them to see their folly , and like a sea-light to a sinking ship in a dark night , makes those who are aboard , to behold their misery , without helping them out of it . if the frame of human nature be considered in it self , and by way of speculation , we have no cause to complain of it ; for as god hath given us inferiour faculties suitable to the constitution of our bodies , so he hath likewise superiour , which are capable of controlling and covering them . but when habit and custom is joyned with a vicious inclination , how little doth human reason signifie ? all the considerations of natural order , and decency , and regularity , and good example , are easily over-born by the strong propensities of a corrupt inclination ; which hurries men on to satisfie first their brutal appetites , and leaves consideration till afterwards . so that reason seems by such an after-game , rather given to torment , than to reform them . therefore the wise god hath superadded his own law to inforce that of reason by a greater authority ; that men may think themselves more concerned to take care of their actions , when they must give an account of them to one infinitely above them . but what can mankind do in such a wretched condition ? for the law of it self is but like a toyl to a wild beast ; the more he struggles , the more he is intangled ; so that he sees his misery by it , but not his remedy . but such is the goodness and mercy of god towards mankind , that he hath never refused to accept those , who have sincerely endeavour'd to do his will according to the measure of that assistance which he hath given them . thus we find characters of men in all ages , who were said to be righteous before god , just and upright and perfect men ; and yet some of the most eminent of these had remarkable failings , as noah , abraham and job ; yet they had extraordinary testimonies of god's approving their integrity and passing by those faults which were contrary to the general design and tenour of their lives . i confess we meet with two instances to the contrary in scripture , which deserve our consideration ; and those were of extraordinary persons too , eminent for their long and faithfull service of god ; and yet upon single faults committed by them , he was very severe with them . which may seem to take much off from this lenity and goodness of god towards such who have a general sincerity of mind towards him . but , if we more strictly consider these two cases , we shall find there was something very provoking in the circumstances of them , which made god so much more displeased with the committing them . for , they were sins committed by them , in their publick capacities , and about such things wherein the honour of god was more particularly concerned . the first is the case of moses , who was a great pattern of wisdom and meekness and faithfulness , for forty years together , in the conduct of a very froward people in the wilderness ; yet at last he happen'd to fail in some part of his duty , and god was so angry with him , that he would not hear his prayer for going into canaan , but he cut him off in the wilderness at last , as he did the people for their unbelief , but what was this sin of moses which made god so highly displeased with him ? if we read the passage as it is related in the history of the fact , it is not so easie to find it out . the people murmured for want of water , god upon moses his prayer commands him , to take his rod , and in the assembly of the people , to speak to the rock and the water should issue out . moses assembles the people , expostulates the matter with them , strikes the rock twice and the waters came . where is the great sin of moses all this while ? yet , he often repeats it , that god was angry with him for something done at that time . god himself saith , moses and aaron rebelled against him ; and that they did not sanctifie him before the people : the psalmist saith , they provoked his spirit , so that he spake unadvised with his lips. after all , the sin of moses was a mixture of anger and some kind of infidelity : for , the psalmist saith , he was highly provoked ; and god himself saith , they believed him not , to sanctifie him in the eye of the children of israel . the fault then seems to lie in this , that they were more concerned for their own honour than god's , and did not so clearly attribute the power of the miracle to god , but that the people might think they assumed it to themselves , as appears by their words to the people , hear now , ye rebels , must we fetch you water out of the rock ? which expression doth not give god the glory he expected from them ; and he is so tender in matters of his own honour , that he would suffer none to encroach upon it , no not his faithfull servants ; but he made them smart for attempting it . the other case is that of david's numbering the people ; and he was a man after god's own heart , of great sincerity and courage and constancy in his service . yet of a sudden he took up a resolution that he would have all the people number'd , without any apparent reason for it . and although he was discouraged from the attempt by those about him , yet he would be obey'd . and what came of it ? truly , before the thing was completed he grew very uneasie at what he had done , for it is said , his heart smote him after that he had numbred the people ; and david said to the lord , i have sinned greatly in what i have done . and yet in the book of chronicles it is said , that he finished it not , because wrath fell for it against israel . what was the cause of all this severity against david ? was it such an unpardonable sin for a king to understand the number of his people ? suppose it a failing , yet why should god be so angry for one such failing in him that had served god so sincerely as david had done ? there must be something extraordinary in this case ; for , god sometimes supposes the people to be number'd ; and in some cases he requires or allows it ; why then is he so d●spleased now at the doing it ? the best account i know of it , is this ; it was not a meer piece of vanity and ostentation in david , ( although that be displeasing to god , ) but it was a thing ( as designed by him ) which was generally look'd on as inconsistent with the fundamental promise made to abraham ; and so it is mention'd in the chronicles , why the numbering was not exactly taken , because the lord had said he would increase israel like the stars of the heavens . which seems to imply that there was a general notion received among the people , that since god promised to increase them beyond number , no one ought to go about to take the exact number of them . for , this must seem to savour of infidelity , and a contempt or mistrust of god's fundamental promise . but however upon such occasions god might use two of his most faithfull servants thus , yet we have no reason to question his readiness to pardon these and other their failings upon a sincere repentance , and to accept of their general care and endeavour to please him instead of a perfect obedience . but i have something farther to offer , for the clearing these two difficult cases , viz. that there is a difference to be observed between the rule of god's proceedings with particular persons , as to the general sincerity of their actings ; and the measure of god's political justice as to persons in publick capacities . the reason is , because in the latter cases , god may justly have a regard , not meerly to the actions themselves , but to the circumstances of the people they are related to . thus moses , mentions it three several times , the lord was angry with me for your sakes ; and again , the lord was wroth with me for your sakes and would not hear me ; and the lord said unto me , let it suffice thee , speak no more to me of this matter . it seems he was so much concerned as to pray to god , and that earnestly , that he would give him leave to conduct the people into canaan : but god would not grant his request . but he tells the people that it was for their sakes that he was denied . furthermore , the lord was angry with me for your sakes , and sware that i should not go over jordan , &c. so that the blow which was given to the head was for the sake of the whole body . and it is remarkable in the case of david , that before he fell into the sin of numbering the people , the anger of the lord was kindled against israel ; and he moved david against them to say , go number israel and judah . from whence it is evident , that the sins of a people may provoke god to let princes fall into such sins , which may give just occasion to god to punish both together . but this is a very different case from the method of god's dealings with particular persons with regard to their integrity , according to the terms of the covenant of grace . which is established on such foundations , that we need not give way to despondencies for the sake of such particular acts of severity . ii. i am now to consider the different consequences of these two , to be carnally minded is death , but to be spiritually minded is life and peace ; which , in short , is , that the advantage is far greater which comes to mankind by one than by the other . and that will appear by comparing them together , ( . ) as under equal circumstances . ( . ) as under unequal circumstances . . as under equal circumstances . and here we have two sorts of persons to consider . . those who have convictions of conscience going along with a carnal mind . such who look on the conditions of men in this world at a distance , and judge only by appearance , would be apt to think that those who do allow themselves all the liberties which a carnal mind doth incline them to , have very much the advantage of those who are under the restraints of a spiritual mind ; for they are bound to severe rules of vertue and mortification , to deny all ungodliness and worldly lusts , and to live soberly and righteously and godly in this present world ; and these are thought to be very hard things ; whereas such who are not under these difficulties , seem to lead the most pleasant and easie lives , enjoying themselves and being full of noise and confidence , and appear to be all mi●th and good humour . but there is another account to be taken of these things : if men could look within and see all the secret misgivings , the inward horrours of conscience , the impatience and dissatisfaction they have , when they seriously reflect on their evil courses , it would quite alter their apprehensions of these things , and make them conclude with the roman orator , that one day spent according to the rules of vertue were to be preferr'd before everlasting debaucheries . and he was no foo● no pedant , no mean and contemptible person , who said this , but a man of wit and sense , of quality and experience , who had opportunities and means enough to have pursued the most sensual and voluptuous course of li●e ; which yet we see out of judgment and choice he despised , and preferr'd a far shorter life according to the rules of vertue , before a vicious immortality . and yet , how short were the incouragements to a good life , and the dissuasives from sin among the best of them , in comparison of what we all ●now now by the gospel of christ ? they went no farther than meer natural reason and the common sense of mankind carried them ; but we profess to believe the wrath of god revealed from heaven against all unrighteousness and ungodliness of men ; and that there will be a great and terrible day , wherein men must receive according to their works , whether they be good or evil. and will not this dreadfull consideration awaken the drowsie and secure sinner , and make him look about him betimes , while there is yet any hopes of mercy ? will he not become so wise at least , as to enter into the consideration of his ways , and to look back on the former course of his life , to examine and compare that with the law of god by which he must be judged ? and if we have but patience to do this , he will have no farther patience with himself , for being guilty of such unspeakable folly. he will abhorr himself for all his sensual and sinfull delights ; which will turn into the greatest bitterness and anguish to his soul ; he will lament his folly and wickedness with the deepest sorrow ; and take up sincere and firm resolutions to return no more to the practise of them and if this be the result , as it ought to be , of all the distinguishing sinfull pleasures of a carnal mind , i leave it to the most impartial mind to resolve whether there will be the least advantage by pursuing them . . but we have too great reason to suppose that men may harden themselves to such a degree of wickedness , as to be insensible of the folly of it , and to mock at those who go about to reprove them for it . such as these are at ease , because they have no sense of their condition ; but so are those in a lethargy : is their case therefore to be envied ; or compared with those in health altho' more sensible of pain and danger ? who seem to be better pleased at sometimes , and transported with their own imaginations than men in a frenzy ? and yet no man thinks their condition happier for it . there is a sort of moral frenzy which possesses some part of mankind , who , are not only extravagant in their actions , but assume such a degree of confidence in committing them , as though the wise men of all ages had been the only remarkable fools in it . but it is no such easie matter to run down the principles of vertue and religion , they have stood the shock of all the sarcasms and reproaches of former times ; and there is still nothing at the bottom of all the scorn and contempt that is cast upon them , but a carnal and profane temper of mind ; which may bear them up for a while , but it will be sure to end in everlasting confusion ; and then they will find what they were so unwilling to believe , that to be carnally minded is death . not a meer state of insensibility , but the worst kind of death ; a death of perpetual horrour and torment ; a death without the power of dying , and yet with a perpetual desire of it ; a death whose sting can never be taken out ; and whose terror is said to be as everlasting as the joys of heaven . and shall not the apprehension of such a death , as this , so dreadfull , so unavoidable , so insupportable , make the greatest sinners to tremble , and be confounded at the apprehension of it ? and , if once such thoughts break into their minds , farewell then to all the imaginary pleasure and satisfaction of a carnal mind ; for it must sink it into the confusion if not the despair of hell. ( . ) but i have hitherto represented the disadvantages of one side ; but are there not such on the other too ? some are too apt to think a spiritual mind to be nothing but a disorder'd fancy , and melancholy imaginations of invisible things . if this were all , it were so far from being life and peace , that there could be no real satisfaction about it . but a spiritual mind is truly the most desirable thing we a●e capable of in this world. for , it is the best improvement of our minds , which are spiritual . it is , the purging and refining them from the dross and corruption which debased them . it is , the advancing them towards the divine nature , by a gradual participation of it . it is , the raising them above the carnal delights , and the sollicitous cares and perplexing fears of this world ; and fitting them for a perpetual conversation with divine and spiritual objects . and what then can be more agreeable to the best part of our selves here , than to have a mind so disengaged from this world and so fit for a better ? so that we may be content to take a view of the worst which can be supposed as to disadvantage here , which is , that good men may be under uneequal circumstances as to their condition in this life ; that is , when the regarding another world more than this , may make their outward condition mo●e uneasie here , than it might have been , if they had follow'd only the dictates of a carnal mind . there are two sorts of troubles we are to expect in this world , ( . ) such as we bring upon our selves by our own acts : ( . ) such as are common to all mankind : in both these the spiritual mind hath the advantage . ( . ) as to such which men bring upon themselves . let this be supposed ; as it ought to be , when god pleases among christians , who are to follow christ in taking up his cross : is there any thing in this , which overthrows the advantage of a spiritual mind above a carnal ? can a carnal mind secure men from pains and diseases , from losses and disappointments ? nay doth not the pursuit of carnal pleasures bring more troubles upon men in this life , than the case of persecution doth upon the best christians ? if the loathsome diseases , the reproachfull and untimely deaths , which of all things ought to be most avoided , by such who believe no life after this , be compared with the pains and martyrdoms of those who have suffer'd for their religion , these will appear to be far more eligible than the other , because the mind hath far greater satisfaction under them , and a certain expectation of an infinite reward to follow upon them . whereas the other can have no comfort in looking back on what they have done , or forward in what they are to expect . for they have destroy'd their own happiness and hasten'd that upon themselves which they account their only misery . ( . ) as to the common calamities of life , which none can prevent or avoid , the spiritual mind hath very much the advantage of the carnal ; for the one ●ills them with inward peace and satisfaction of mind , which of all things carry men best through the troubles of life ; being joyned with patience , humility , self-denial , and submission to the will of god ; which are all the genuine effects of a spiritual mind ; but a carnal mind is froward and impatient , uneasie to it self and to all about it , and this makes every pain and trouble to be much greater than it would have been ; like the ass in the fable : which lay down in the water with his burthen of wool and so made it heavier than before . there were two things the philosophical men of pleasure sought to comfort themselves by , under the unavoidable troubles of life ; which the spiritual mind hath far greater advantages than any of them had , as to both of them ; and these are reflection and expectation . ( . ) reflection . when epicurus was in his last agonies under the stone , what a miserable way was it for him to go about to comfort himself , by reflecting upon his atoms and his maxims , his imaginary notion of the happiness of life consisting in pleasure , when his life was so near being ended by excessive pain ? but a good man that hath sincerely endeavour'd to serve god in his generation , and to do all the good he could , and to promote the interests of religion and vertue in the world , may in the midst of many failings and infirmities , look back with comfort on the course of his former life , and by the peace of a good conscience may injoy inward satisfaction under such pains and distempers , which make life uneasie and death more welcome , as it is a passage to a far better state. and that is the next thing . ( . ) expectation . it was a sorrowfull expectation which epicurus supported himself with , when he was in the prospect of death ; which was no more , than that the subtle atoms which made up his soul , would soon be scatter'd and dispersed , he knew not where , and then he should be , as if he had never been . but what comfort is there in such a dissolution ? men that have deserved it , may heartily wish it ; but they have deserved something worse , and that they must expect . for , the just and holy god , will certainly call them to an account for all their vices and follies ; and it is a fearfull thing to fall into the hands of the living god ; and what a miserable case are those in , who have nothing to look for but judgment and fiery indignation , which shall consume the adversaries of god and religion ? but , o the blessed hope and joyfull expectation that attends a spiritual mind ! especially when it is enliven'd and assisted by the powerfull influences of divine grace . for without that , even good men may be liable to some dejections and fears as to another world , from the vastness of the change , the sense of their failings , the weakness of their minds , and mistrust of their own fitness for heaven ; but so great is the goodness and mercy of god towards them that sincerely love and fear him , that he always makes their passage safe , though it be not so triumphant . and although the valley of the shadow of death may seem gloomy and uncomfortable at a distance ; yet when god is pleased to conduct his servants through it , he makes it a happy passage into a state of a glorious immortality and everlasting life and peace . to which god , &c. sermon ix . preached before the king and queen at white-hall , on christmass-day , . st. john iii. . for god sent not his son into the world to condemn the world ; but that the world through him might be saved . these words are part of the gospel written by st. john , wherein he doth not only fill up the history of our saviour with many particular discourses omitted by the other evangelists , but the whole seems to be penned in another strain and with some different purpose and design . it 's true , that they all agree in the same general end of writing which st. john mentions , viz. that we might believe that jesus is the christ the son of god , and that believing we might have life through his name ; but they make use of several methods , as most agreeable to the circumstances of the time and place and occasion of their writing . st. matthew wrote his gospel for the sake of the jews ; and therefore he begins with the genealogy of jesus christ from abraham , and shews that the prophecies were accomplished in him , and how he came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it , and that his miracles and doctrine were sufficient to convince them that he was the promised messias . st. mark wrote only a summary account of the most material passages relating to the person and doctrine of christ for the sake of the gentiles . st. luke takes a larger compass , and puts things into an exacter order of time , as himself tells us , and adds many circumstances relating to the birth of christ , and the general advantage to mankind by his coming ; that he was to be a light to lighten the gentiles , as well as the glory of his people israel . st. john succeeding the rest , found two great things which gave him occasion of writing his gospel ; . the perverting the doctrine of christ by the ebionites and cerinthians , who pretended to give great honour to christ as an excellent person both for wisdom and holiness , but yet so that he was but a meer man , to whom god , upon his baptism , had given extraordinary gifts and assistances of his holy spirit . . the other was , that the gospel which was designed for the universal good of the world met with such cold reception and entertainment from it . he was in the world , and the world was made by him , and the world knew him not . he came unto his own , and his own received him not . what could be more uneasie to so true a lover of christ as st. john was , than that he lived to see his doctrine perverted , and his design in so great a measure rendred ineffectual ? and therefore in the writing of this gospel . . he begins after another manner ; and in a very short , significant and lofty style , he sets forth his eternal being and godhead . in the beginning was the word , and the word was with god , and the word was god. and as the eternal power and godhead were understood by the things that were made , as st. paul saith , so he adds , that all things were made by him , and without him was not any thing made that was made . which is as certain an argument of the divinity of christ , as there is of the being of god from the creation of the world. . as to the other point ; it was indeed a sad and amazing consideration , that the wonderfull love of god in sending his son into the world should have so little effect upon the generality of those to whom he was sent and his doctrine preached ; but the apostle contents himself with these two accounts of it ; . that it was far from being god's intention or design in sending his son to make men's condition worfe and more desperate ; for god sent not his son into the world to condemn the world , but that the world through him might be saved . . but it might be presently objected , that if this were god's intention , the world would not have receiv'd so little benefit by it , but according to the terms of salvation proposed by the gospel so few will have advantage by it ; therefore the evangelist adds , that if men did perish they must thank themselves for it ; for , this is the condemnation that light is come into the world , and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil , v. . so that there are two things which deserve our consideration . i. the wonderfull condescension and gracious intention of god in sending his son into the world. ii. the true reason why so many miscarry , as to their salvation notwithstanding ; viz. their own wickedness and folly. . the former of these , is that , which upon this day we have particular reason to take notice of ; not in a slight superficial manner , ( as though an annual commemoration of it were all that god expected from us , ) but our minds and souls ought to be possessed with a deep and humble sense of so great , so undeserved , so astonishing a condescension of god to mankind . and the more we think and consider of it , the more amazing and surprizing it must appear to us : for when the psalmist thought but of god's providence towards mankind , he could not but break out into that expression , lord , what is man , that thou art mindfull of him , and the son of man , that thou so regardest him ! what is man indeed ! a mass of vanity and disorder ; weak in his judgment , wilfull in his passions ; uncertain in his best resolutions , violent in his worst inclinations ; strangely bent upon what tends to his ruine , and hardly brought to understand and pursue his truest interest ! what is such a creature as this , that a god infinitely wise and powerfull , far above our thoughts as well as our services , should concern himself about the low and trifling affairs of mankind ! but such is the goodness and condescension of god , that he humbles himself so far , as not only to behold , but to govern the things that are done upon earth . but what is man that he should visit him ! not with the meer common demonstrations of his kindness , which he affords to other creatures ; but that when mankind had so far degenerated and fallen off from god by their sins , that they deserved to be for ever cast off and forgotten by him ; that then god should visit him by sending his son into the world that the world through him might be saved ; this is so far above our imaginations as well as deserts , that it seems to be the most colourable pretence for infidelity , that it is too great a thing for mankind to believe . but i am sensible , that in this sceptical and unbelieving age , there is such a humour of caviling against matters of revelation , especially this fundamental article of it , that it would seem as if we were afraid to look their objections in the face , if we take no notice of them ; and on the other side , to insist too much upon them , were to make them appear much more considerable than they are . therefore i shall pass over all the trifling and impertinent talk of such men ( which is not whispered in corners , but i am afraid is become a matter of too common and publick discourse ) and i shall single out that which seems to have the greatest weight in it ; viz. suppose god should have an intention to offer terms of salvation to mankind , yet what need was there that the son of god should come into the world for that end ? had not god easier methods of doing it than by the incarnation and crucifixion of his son ? is it not more credible , that god should forgive sins without any atonement , than that he should send his son to be a sacrifice of propitiation to himself ? is it not enough for us to believe all the principles of natural religion to be true ; for we own a god , and providence , and a life to come , and rewards and punishments of mankind according to the nature of their actions ; but why should our faith be cramp'd by such incredible mysteries as these , concerning the son of god's coming into the world ; in such a manner as the evangelists describe it : this is so far from being a kindness to the world , that it makes the condition of salvation so much harder , if we must believe things which seem so impossible to us , and so hard to be reconciled to the natural principles of reason and religion . i shall not dispute it with such men whether these late pretenders to natural religion have at the bottom any real kindness for the principles of it , or not ; i am willing to hope the best , and that it is a meer dissatisfaction in them as to our revealed religion ; and that this pretended zeal for natural religion is little more than a meer sham and disguise to avoid a more odious imputation . but let it be as great and real as they pretend , what i at present undertake , is to make it appear , that none who do embrace the principles of natural religion can have any reason to reject the christian , even as to this article of god's sending his son into the world , which they seem most to stumble at . i shall not go about to shew , how the christian religion not only supposes , but improves , refines , establishes and enforces the most noted and allowed principles of natural religion , as to the being of god and providence ; the most agreeable way of worship ; the nature and kinds of moral duties , the rewards and punishments of another world , since no one of common sense can deny that the christian religion is very exact and particular in these things above any other institution in the world. and therefore i cannot , but in passing , take notice , that i do not remember any one institution in the world with respect to religion , except that which we have by revelation , which hath not some notorious blunders in it , as to the principles of natural religion and vertue ; and therefore they have far less reason to quarrel with christianity than any other religion ( if their quarrel were not really against all , as i fear it is ; ) let them look abroad over the unchristian world ; and they will find such foolish notions , such vain superstitions , such incoherent fables , such immoral practices allowed by their several religions , as would make a considering man wonder how the notion of religion could be so debased among men. let them look backward upon the passages of elder times , and they shall find either they set up false gods with the true , or the false worship of the true god ; or a worship disagreeable to the divine nature by mean representations , or uncouth sacrifices , or impure rites ; or else there were some horrible flaws , as to the common principles of morality , as to conjugal society , or the rights of property , or the due regard to the preservation of mankind ; or they give such a pitifull representation of the rewards and punishments of another life ; as if they had a mind to have them look'd on as fables , or despised as unworthy our regarding them above the present pleasures of life . but i dare challenge the most cavilling sceptick to find any just fault with the duties of christianity ; for the worship of god required therein , is pure , holy , spiritual , very agreeable to the divine nature and the common reason of mankind . the moral precepts of it are clear , weighty and comprehensive . and those who have delivered them to us , neither commend any vice , nor sink the reputation of any vertue ; they never lessen our duties to god , or to one another ; all the just complaint is , that the precepts are too strict and severe , too good and too hard for mankind to practise them . but is this an objection against our religion , or against mankind ? if they think that , let our religion require what it will , the generality of the world will still live and act like brutes , and go against all reason and religion ; how can we help it ? but we hope the blame is not to be laid on reason or religion , that so great a part of mankind are either fools or mad-men ; i. e. either want sense to understand their duty , or are resolved not to practise it . especially considering , that the rewards and punishments of another life , are set forth in the gospel , with that clearness , that force , that authority , that if any thing of that nature would work upon mankind , these must . but all these things i pass over , and come to that which i proposed as my chief design , which is to prove , that none who truly believe the principles of natural religion , can have any reason to reject this fundamental article of it , as to god's sending his son into the world. and that upon two accounts . i. that the principles of natural religion make this design appear very credible , or fit to be believed by men of sense and understanding . ii. that the principles on which this fundamental article of our revealed religion stands , afford sufficient evidence to prove it true ; and therefore that we are bound to believe it . as to the former , the grounds or principles which i go upon , are these : i. that the great end of christ's coming into the world , viz. the salvation of mankind , is most agreeable to the infinite wisdom and goodness of god. no one who believes a god , can deny him to be of infinite wisdom and goodness ; for the very same reasons which move men to believe a god , do convince them that he must be of infinite wisdom and goodness , seeing the strongest evidences to prove his being are from the instances of them in the world. these being then supposed , as essential and inseparable attributes of the divine nature ; we are to consider what end with respect to mankind is most agreeable to these to carry on ; and we must suppose mankind to be made up of soul and body , which are capable of pleasures and sati●faction , both in this world and another : but our souls are of an immortal nature , that will subsist in happiness or misery after this life , otherwise the rewards and punishments of another world signifie nothing ; the question then is ( if it can be made a question ) whether it be more agreeable to the infinite goodness and wisdom of god to provide for the well-being of mankind in such a low and gloomy region , as this earth is , or to advance them into a far better place , and better company , and more noble and divine delights , and those not depending on a fading , drooping , dying life , but on the perpetual enjoyment of a complete happiness both of soul and body . no one that ever dares to think or consider of these things , can believe there is any comparison between them ; so that the salvation tendred by the gospel , is the most agreeable end which the wisdom and goodness of god could carry on for the benefit of mankind . but why should mankind flatter themselves with the hopes or expectation of a happiness so far above what they can pretend to deserve ? there were some grounds for such an objection as this ; if we supposed the rewards of another life to come from any other fountain than the infinite goodness of god towards those who sincerely love him and endeavour to please him ; although with many failings and imperfections . but this is the only hypothesis , which we maintain to be the christian doctrine : and what is there in it , which is repugnant to the wisdom and goodness of god ? what was it but infinite goodness which gave a being to the world at first , and hath preserved it ever since , and made it so usefull and beneficial to mankind ? what is it , but infinite goodness that suffers us to live and enjoy so may comforts of life , after so many great and continual provocations ? if we were to argue from our deserts , it were impossible for us to justifie the wonderfull patience and long-suffering of god towards the sinfull race of mankind ; for we are certain , that they have long since deserved to be cut off from the face of the earth ? if we consider the justice and holiness of god , whereby he is daily provoked to punish offenders , and the power he hath to execute his justice in a moment , without any opposite power to controll or resist him ; we have reason to be astonished at the wonderfull patience and forbearance of god , of which we every day see so large experience . but this is not all ; he doth not only suffer them to live , but often makes their condition easie and prosperous as to this world , having health , riches and honour , and the hopes of their posterity , enjoying the same things after them . now these to such , who do not believe or value another life , are the greatest things god can do to their satisfaction . but if they can allow so much goodness in god towards those who continually offend him ; why should they question greater instances of it towards those that endeavour to please him ? i do not mean as to this world , but as to another which they value far before it ; for if they do not , they have no reason to expect any happiness in it : why then should it be thought more unreasonable for god to bestow the happiness of another life , on those who esteem and choose it , than to give the good things of this life to those who love and admire it ? i do not say , the wisdom is equal in the choice ; but the goodness of god is wonderfull in both . a●d there can be no imaginable groun● to suspect , that god should be really less kind to those who love him best . it is a vain thing to talk of those being saved by christ's coming into the world , who do not heartily love god and keep his commandments ; for the whole design of the gospel is to perswade us to one in order to the other ; and therefore it is not a well-grounded hope , but a fond imagination for any to expect salvation by christ on any other terms . if we then take in the whole hypothesis or true scheme of christianity together , it is no other than that god sent his son into the world , that the world through him might be saved ; not by continuing in the sinfull practices of this world , which st. john calls the lust of the flesh , the lust of the eye , and the pride of life ; but by subduing and mortifying all disorderly passions do prepare themselves for a better state. now , if there be in our minds a firm perswasion of the infinite goodness of god , of which we are convinced by meer natural reason ; why should it be thought hard to believe , that god should take care of so great and good an end , as the eternal salvation of those who truly love and obey him . ii. the next principle agreeable to natural reason and religion is , that no such thing as salvation or happiness in a future state can be expected without the particular favour of god. for , all who do own natural religion , must agree that the soul of man is an immortal thinking being ; and therefore its happiness must consist in such a sort of thinking , as carries the greatest pleasure and satisfaction along with it . let us think with our selves what a soul separate from the body can do , to make it self happy : here it was intangled , corrupted , and therefore apt to be deceived by the false appearances of things , which glide through the senses and leave too lasting impressions on the mind ; and thereby it comes to mistake shews for substance , and meer colours for realities . but this is a mistake so common and so fatal to mankind , that very few are throughly undeceived in this world ; for one way or other they are apt to flatter themselves with some pleasing mistakes and delightfull errors of life . but assoon as the soul is dislodged from this cloudy mansion in the body , all things will then appear , not as by an uncertain sky light in a dark room , but in an open and distinct view , and then it will be impossible to be any longer deceived by false representations of things . what then can be conceived sufficient to entertain and please the mind ? will it be the reflection on the past pleasures of the body ? no certainly ; for those cannot bear a severe reflection now ; and the very thoughts of them make men's minds very uneasie ; for the most tempting pleasures of sin leave no gratefull relish behind them . how then should the mind bear up it self in another state , when its reflections must be far more constant and severe ? what then ? can the mind lay it self asleep , and put it self into a state of unthinking ? that were all one , as a kind of self-annihilation if it be of a thinking nature . there is a state of unthinking in this world , which is too common ; when the mind is as it were overwhelmed and stifled with feathers ; i mean is so taken up with trifling and vain imaginations , as hardly give way to one serious thought . but this is impossible in another state ; and therefore nothing but what will bear a most strict and severe scrutiny can give any support or comfort to the mind then . it must be true and real good to create any satisfaction ; it must be durable and lasting to keep it up ; it must be complete and perfect to answer all the just and reasonable desires of an immortal soul. and what can this be less than god himself ? and therefore the christian religion speaks most agreeably to natural reason , when it still supposes the happiness of another world to consist in the presence and enjoyment of god. for those must have all that is desirable , who enjoy the favour of him who commands all things , and knows how to suit them to the greatest advantage to those to whom he designs to shew his favour . and this prospect of another state , or of the salvation of mankind by christ s coming into the world , is that which lets us into another view of all that relates to the son of god's coming into the world : for if our minds be possessed with great apprehensions of the power and greatness of the world ; all that the gospel represents as to the manner of god's sending his son into the world , his being born of an obscure virgin , being laid in the common manger , being bred up in a private place , having so mean followers , meeting with so cold a reception from his own people , and at last , being exposed to an ignominious death by them , looks very reproachfull and contemptible . but on the other side , if we could raise our minds to such idea's of things here , as the glorious spirits above have ; and see how all things are esteemed by them according to the ends and purposes they are designed for , we should then perceive how admirably all these things were fitted for his great end ; which was to wean men's hearts from the pomp and vanities of this world and to prepare them for a better ; and we should then have quite another opinion of these things : for as there is a certain greatness , which is above all the formal shews and affected appearances of it , so when a great and noble design is to be carried on , the true measure of decorum in that case , is that which is most serviceable to the principal end. if a great person had a design to rescue some near relations out of slavery , he would never go with a splendid equipage and a long train of attendance , which would but make his person more gazed at and his design less effectual . if he had intended to have rescued them by force out of captivity , it had been necessary to have had power and strength proportionable to his design ; but if it were only by perswasion , then he must accommodate himself to such methods as were most likely to prevail . the great end of the coming of christ was to deliver the souls of men from a much worse captivity , viz. of their own sinfull passions and the devil's tyranny by their means ; but he did not come in a way of violence to break open the prison-doors and in an instant to knock off their fetters and bid them be free ; but he makes use of all the gentle and effectual methods of perswasion , not only by his words but by his own example ; that they might learn by him to despise this world , who had so little in it , and to prepare for that from whence he came , where their happiness should be unconceivable and without end. iii. the third principle is , that no such particular favour of god is to be expected , as long as his displeasure is so just against mankind for sin , and no effectual means used to remove it . the truth is , the whole scheme of the gospel turns upon this point , whether god be really displeased with mankind for their sins , so as to need a reconciliation : for , if all that the scripture so often expresses concerning the wrath and displeasure of god against mankind for sin , be only figurative and hyperbolical expressions , then the whole design of the gospel must be given up as a meer scheme ; for , if god be not really displeased , there is no need of reconciliation ; if no need of that , then there can be no need of christ's coming to reconcile us to god ; and if he did not come for that end , we have no reason to believe the scripture , which affirms it over and over . and i do not think any stronger argument can be brought to prove a thing , than that the most emphatical expressions are so often applied to that purpose , by such persons who used all sincerity and plainness . so that this matter as to the scripture is clear , if any thing can be made so ; and if nothing can , i cannot see how it is possible to have a written rule of faith ; since all writings are capable by ambiguity of words and phrases , by the different use of particles and transposition of letters and syllables , of very different interpretations . but this is not my present business , which is rather to consider the natural sense and reason of mankind as to this matter . we cannot in reason suppose any such passion in an infinitely perfect being , as that which we call wrath and anger in men. for that is a violent perturbation arising from surprise and indignation ; but there can be no disorder or surprise in a being of infinite wisdom . therefore wrath in god must suppose two things . . a just cause of displeasure given by us . . such a just displeasure following upon it as will end in the severe punishment of offenders if it be not removed . now , whether there be a just cause of displeasure or not , must depend upon the natural differences of good and evil. and it is impossible that any one who exercises his reason , can judge amiss in this matter . not , that all the differences of good and evil are equally clear , for all propositions in mathematicks are not so ; but it is sufficient to our purpose , that the general principles are so ; and the greater instances ; so that no man can think that he acts as much according to reason in one as the other . and , can any one of common sense imagine god to be as well pleased with him who blasphemes his name , and despises his service , and hates religion , as with one that fears and honours him , and endeavours to please him ? can he be as well pleased with him , that assassines his parents , as with him that obeys them ? with him that robs and defrauds his neighbour , as with him that relieves him in his necessities ? with him who subdues his disorderly passions , as with him that gives way to them ? with him who is cruel , inhuman and persidious , as with him that is faithfull and just and compassionate ? these are but some of the instances of the differences of good and evil , but they are so plain and notorious , that a man must renounce the common principles of humanity , who doth not own them . and to say there are no such differences , because there have been mistakes and disputes about some things accounted good and evil , is as absurd , as to say , there is no difference between day and night , because in the twilight it is hard to distinguish them . but if there be such a real difference in the nature of humane actions , and god be a strict observer of them , he being a god of infinite holiness and justice , cannot but be offended with mankind's wilfull omission of what they know to be good , and commission of what they know to be evil . but here we must distinguish between god's displeasure against the actions and against the persons who commit them . the former is a necessary consequent upon the evil of sin , and can never be removed , for god is irreconcileable to sin. but those who commit sin are his creatures ; and therefore capable of mercy and forgiveness . there is always a desert of punishment following upon sin ; but there is no inseparable connection between the sin and the punishment ; for the great and wise governour of the world acts not by necessity of nature in punishing sinners , but by the methods of wisdom and justice . and if the saving of sinners upon their repentance can be made agreeable to these , such is the mercy and goodness of god to his creatures , that there is great reason to hope for a reconciliation . for , although god be displeased , he is not implacable ; although he be justly provoked to punish sinners , yet there is no absolute necessity that he should ; nor any irreversible decree that he will do it ; and therefore notwithstanding this displeasure of god , there is a way still left open for reconciliation which leads to the next . iv. the fourth principle is , that if god be thus displeased with the sins of mankind , and yet there is a possibility of reconciliation between god and them , he alone is the most proper and competent judge , on what terms this reconciliation may be obtained . for being both the offended party and the supreme governour , he hath the sole right on both accounts of fixing those terms and conditions , upon which he will forgive sins , and receive the offenders into favour . it is a vain thing for any to argue from one attribute of god against another . some are apt to flatter themselves that god will easily forgive sins , because he is mercifull , but they ought to consider that he is just and holy as well as mercifull ; and there is as much ground to fear that he will not forgive because he is just ; as there can be to hope that he will because he is mercifull . and thus it is impossible for a considering man to satisfie his own mind as to god's forgiving his sins ; unless he be some way assured from himself that he will do it . and therefore a particular revelation in this case must be made , if god designs to bring men to repentance by the hopes of forgiveness . but meer repentance can never make any satisfaction to god for the breach of his laws . suppose a sinner come to himself and is heartily sorry that he hath offended god so many ways , and with such aggravating circumstances as he hath done ; and now resolves in the anguish of his soul never more to return to the practice of them ; this no doubt , is far more pleasing to god , than going on to offend still ; but all this is no more than a man in justice to god and to himself is bound to do ; for he is bound to vindicate the honour of god's laws , and to condemn himself for his own folly , and to return no more to the practice of it . but what amends is made by all this , for the infinite dishonour which hath been done to god and his laws by the violation of them ? the courts of justice among men take no notice of the malefactor's repentance ; however he be affected , the law must be observed , and offenders punished . how then can any persons be assured from meer natural reason , that god will not be as tender of the honour and justice of his laws , as mankind are allowed to be without any imputation of cruelty or injustice ? if god should be exact in punishing offenders , who could complain ? for who can plead not guilty before his maker ? and when a man 's own conscience condemns him that he hath deserved punishment , what reason can he have from himself not to expect it ? and if he doth justly expect to be punished , what reason can he have to hope for forgiveness ? since he knows that he deserves to be punished , and therefore can never deserve to be forgiven . it must be therefore a free act of grace and mercy in god to forgive even penitent sinners ; and upon what terms and in what manner he will do it depends wholly upon his own good-will . he may forgive sins if he pleases , and it is agreeable to his natute to do it , if sinners do repent and forsake their sins ; but whether god hath actually made known to us the way of reconciliation cannot be known by any principles of nature ; because it is a matter of fact and must have such proof as a thing of that nature is capable of . ii. having thus shewed , how strongly the principles of natural religion do make way for entertaining this point of the christian doctrine , as to god's sending his son into the world in order to our reconciliation with him and our salvation by him ; it remains now to shew how justly god doth require the belief of it from us as true ; for the next words tells us , that he that believeth on him is not condemned ; but he that believeth not is condemned already , because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten son of god , v. . this , some may say , is very hard doctrine ; for they believe as much as they can ; and if they can believe no more it is no fault ; for no man can be bound to believe more than he can . i do not question but nicodemus ( to whom these words are generally supposed to be spoken by our saviour ) thought he had gone a great way , when he used those words to christ , v. . rabbi we know that thou art a teacher come from god , for no man can do these miracles that thou dost except god be with him . i. e. he was willing to believe him some great prophet whom god had sent ; and this was a fair step for a ruler among the jews , who were generally very unreasonable unbelievers . but christ tells him plainly this would not do ; for unless he believed him to be the only begotten son of god , he could not be saved . and this is the great point , that god so loved the world , that he gave his only begotten son , that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life , v. . not , as though meer believing this were sufficient ( for this carries a great many other things along with it ) but that since god had sent his only begotten son into the world upon such a message , he did expect that he should be received and entertained as such upon their utmost peril . but can we believe farther than we have reason to believe ? no ; god do●h not expect it from us , provided that with sincere and impartial minds we set our selves to consider and weigh the evidence and with great humility beg the assistance of divine grace , without which god may justly leave us to our unbelief . it would be too large a subject now to lay open the several arguments to prove that it is as evident , as a matter of fact can be made to us , that god did send his son that the world through him might be saved ; therefore i shall only mention these two things . . that if the matters of fact are true concerning the history of christ's coming , as related by the evangelists , there can be no reason to doubt his being the son of god. for he that was the most exact pattern of humility and self-denial , not only frequently assumes this title to himself , and his most intimate disciples affirm it of him ; but god himself gave the most ample and convincing testimony to it ; by his miraculous birth ; and a voice from heaven to that purpose at his baptism ; by a long train and series of publick and usefull miracles to attest the truth of his doctrine ; by his resurrection from the dead and ascension into heaven , and wonderfull effusion of the holy ghost , with the strange effects which followed it ; so that no one who doth believe these things to be true can have any ground to say that he cannot believe christ to be the son of god. . that if these matters of fact are not to be believed as true we cannot be bound to believe any thing but what we see our selves . for the distance of time and place are equal in this case ; and no other matters of fact are so well attested as these are . and so , as the apostle saith of christ's resurrection , if he be not risen our faith is vain ; so in this case i say if there be not reason to believe these things all faith is vain . for no other matters of fact , which we should be accounted fools for not believing , have had such a sort of testimony which these have had . for these things were not conveyed by a silent tradition for some time till the chief parties were dead who could either prove or disprove them ; but they were publick and exposed to all manner of examination ; they were not deliver'd by one or two , who were trusted with a secret , but openly avowed by a great number of competent witnesses , who were present ; and none of them could be brought by the greatest sufferings to deny , or falsify , or conceal any part of their evidence ; that when these things had been thus delivered by those who saw them , who were most remarkable for their innocency and integrity , in the next ages they were examined and enquired into by men of sagacity and learning , who upon the strictest search found no reason to suspect their testimony ; and therefore heartily embraced and defended the christian faith. and from thence they have been conveyed down to us ; not by an uncertain oral tradition , which can hardly hold the same from one end of the town to another ; but by unquestionable writings ; of such authority , that the christians would rather die than deliver up their books . and in these are all those circumstances contained , which we are bound to believe as christians ; among which this is one of the chief , that god sent his son into the world for the salvation of mankind . to summ up all ; i desire those who after all this pretend that they are willing to believe as much as they can , and those who are liable to any suggestions of infidelity , to consider seriously with themselves , whether there can be a greater and more noble design , more becoming the wisdom , power and goodness of god to carry on , than that of rescuing mankind out of a miserable state , and putting them into a certain way of eternal happiness ? whether such a design must not be discovered in some particular age of the world , with all the circumstances relating to it ? whether that age were not the fittest of all others , wherein the most remarkable prophecies were to be accomplished , as to the coming of the m●ssias , while the second temple was standing ? whether the difficulties as to humane testimonies be not equal to all ages and things ? whether because it is possible for all men to deceive , it be reasonable to inferr that all men are deceived ; and that there is nothing but illusion and imposture in the world ; and that all men lye and deceive for the sake of lying and deceiving ? but if there be a difference to be made between men and between testimonies ; then we are to examine the different characters of truth and falshood and give our assent according to them . and if after the severest examination we do not find sufficient reason to believe that god sent his son into the world for the salvation of mankind , upon such testimonies as are given of it , we must conclude all mankind to be made up of fraud and imposture ; and that there is no such thing as sincerity and honesty in the world ; or that if there be , it is not possible for others to discern it . which are such fatal reproaches upon humane nature , that no one who pretends to any regard to it can be guilty of . for if they be universally true , they must condemn themselves ; if not , wè must see some very particular reason why we should not rather think them deceived , than fix such an indelible blot upon the reputation of mankind . and surely it is a great advantage to the truth of religion to find , that it cannot be overthrown but by such methods , as equally overturn all truth and certainty , and that the faith of christianity stands not only upon the same bottom with the common faith of mankind . but if we reject such assurance as is offer'd us for the faith of the gospel , our infidelity cannot be the effect of reason and argument , but of a causeless suspicion and unreasonable mistrust of the best part of mankind . who have most firmly believed the truth of these things , and have led the most holy and exemplary lives in hopes of a blessed immortality . and if the testimony of any persons deserves to be taken before others , it must be of such who could have no design upon this world , but were resolved by faith and patience to prepare for a better . to conclude . for us who believe and own the truth of this great and fundamental article of the christian faith , we have something else to do than meerly to vindicate and assert it . this at some times is more necessary than at others ; and i heartily wish this were none of them . i am willing to hope the best of all who in such an age of infidelity have the courage and zeal to own the faith of this day ; viz. that god sent his son into the world in order to the making us for ever happy . and i hope none who profess themselves christians this day will ever be discouraged by the mocks and flouts of infidels , so as to let go the anchor of their hope , or mistrust the foundation of their faith. it is as great a piece of wisdom to know when to believe , as when not to believe ; and it is as certain an argument of a weak mind to be always doubting , as to be over-forward in believing : for the soil must be very bad that can bear no foundation . but withall let us not flatter our selves only that we have a better faith than others . for how miserable will our case be , if we have nothing but a superficial faith ; and a sort of anniversary devotion . we can never thank god too much for the blessing of this day ; but god expects something more from us , than meerly the giving him solemn thanks once a year for sending his son into the world. we must endeavour to answer the end of god's sending him , i. e. to save us first from our sins , and then from the wrath to come . this is the method which god himself hath appointed , not barely from his own will and pleasure , but from the necessary order and reason of things . for , otherwise a man might be rewarded for doing amiss , and punished for performing his duty . if we therefore ever hope for any benefit by this coming of christ into the world , we must apply our minds to consider seriously on what conditions we may reasonably hope for salvation by him . can they think that christ came to so little purpose as to save men in their sins ? if that were to be hoped , there had been no need of his coming ; but it is a hard work indeed to save us from them . the guilt must be expiated , and the power subdued ; the former christ hath done ; but he expects , and with great reason , that we should deny ungodly and worldly lusts , and work out our own salvation with fear and trembling . sermon x. concerning sins of omission , preached before the king and queen at white-hall , on march th , / ; being midlent-sunday . st. james iv. . therefore to him that knoweth to do good , and doth it not , to him it is sin. although our apostle in this epistle calls the gospel the law of liberty , yet to prevent any misconstruction thereof , as though it allowed a liberty to sin , we no where find more strict and severe passages against it , than in this epistle , both with respect to sins of commission , and sins of omission . as to sins of commission , his expression seems hardly consistent with the grace of the gospel ; for whosoever shall keep the whole law , and yet offend in one point , he is guilty of all . hath the law of moses any thing more apt to terrifie the consciences of men , if not to drive them into despair , than this ? it is not , if one breaks the whole law ; then it had been no wonder if he were guilty of all , even under the gospel , which doth not take away the force of the moral law. but , if he keep the whole law ; and yet offend in one point ; he is guilty of all . how is this agreeable with the equity of the gospel , to make a breach of one part to be a violation of the whole law ? since he cannot keep the law , and break it at the same time ; and so far as he did keep it , he could not be guilty of the breach of it ; but , if he offended but in one point , he must keep all the rest . it is not enough to say , that the chain of the whole is broken , and the authority of the law-giver contemned ; for there is a great difference between breaking a chain , and breaking it all to pieces ; there is no such contempt in the breach of one command , as of all ; and he that keeps all the rest , seems to shew more regard to his authority in keeping the other parts of the law , than contempt in that wherein he offends . what then is the apostle's meaning ? it is , that the gospel doth not allow any wilfull breach of the law of god in any one kind or sort whatsoever ; as appears by the following words , for he that said , do not commit adultery , said also , do not kill ; now if thou commit no adultery , yet if thou kill , thou art become a transgressor of the law. what is before said , that he is guilty of all , is here explained , that he is a transgressor of the law. this cannot therefore be understood of any sudden act of passion and surprise , nor of any failings as to the manner of our duties , but of a wilfull , deliberate practice of some one known sin , although the person may be carefull to avoid many others ; because this is not consistent with that integrity of mind , and that sincere regard to god and his laws , which every good christian ought to have ; and so being guilty of the whole law , is to be understood with respect to the favour of god ; which can no more be expected where there is a wilfull persisting in any one known transgression of the law than if he were guilty of all . as to sins of omission ; the words of the text taken in their full extent , have a very mortifying consideration in them . for it is much easier to know to do good , than to practise it . it is hard for men under the plain precepts of the gospel , not to know how to do good ; but who is there that can say , he doth all the good he knows ? we all know , we ought to love god with all our heart and soul and strength , and our neighbour as our selves ; yet who can pretend to do it in the utmost latitude and extent of our duty ? so that what st. paul saith of the law , is true of the text , that it concludes all under sin. for , as our apostle saith , in many things we offend all . and the more we know , the more we offend , as he tells us in these words , to him that knoweth to do good , and doth it not , to him it is fin . what advantage then have we by the gospel , since the more we know of our duty , the worse our condition is , if we do not practise it ? and we know so much more to be our duty than we can hope to practise ; that this expression seems to leave mankind in a more deplorable condition under the light of the gospel , than if we had never heard of it . for , if the sin be aggravated by knowing our duty , and not doing it , it must proportionably be lessened by having no opportunities to know it . therefore , for the clearing the sense of the apostle in these words , and for the right understanding the just measures of our duty , and the due aggravation of our sins , it will be necessary to state and clear the nature and extent of sins of omission : or to shew how far this rule of the apostle holds , to him that knoweth to do good , and doth it not , to him it is sin. to do good here , doth not barely imply something that is lawfull and commendable , which it is some way in our power to do ; but that to which we are under some obligation , so that it becomes our duty to do it . for a sin of omission must suppose an obligation ; since every sin must be a transgression of the law. but there are several sorts of things that are good ; and there are different kinds of obligation ; and from hence arises the difficulty of stating the nature of sins of omission ; which some are too little sensible of , and some too much . but it is in it self a subject of so important a nature , and so seldom spoken to , that i shall at this time endeavour to clear it . and in order thereto we must enquire , i. into that good which we are obliged to do . ii. the nature of the obligation we are under to do it . i. as to the good which we are obliged to do ; that may be considered two ways . . with respect to god , and so it implies the duty we owe , on the account of the relation we stand in to him . . with respect to one another ; and so it implies not meer duty but something beneficial and advantageous to others , which we are in a capacity to do . . our duty with respect to god , is either . that of our minds , which lie in internal acts , which we are bound to perform towards him . . that which consists in external acts of duty and service to him . . the duty which we owe to god in our minds ; which is , not barely to know him , but frequently to consider and think of him , as our maker and benefactor . it is a strange incogitancy in mankind to live , as without god in the world ; to suffer the cares and thoughts and business of this world to justle god out of our minds ; whom we ought in the first place to regard . if we could free our minds from that disorder and confusion they are under by the strong impressions of sensible objects , and the false idea's of imagination , they would think of nothing so freely , so frequently , so delightfully as the divine perfections . for god being the most perfect mind ; other minds that are created by him , do naturally tend towards him as their centre , and are uneasie and restless , like the needle touched with the load-stone , till they are fixed towards him . we meet with too many things which divert and draw them another way ; but it is certainly one of the most necessary duties lying upon us , to call back our thoughts from too busie and eager a pursuit of earthly things ; and to fix them in the serious thoughts of god and another world. it is the opinion of aquinas and the older casuists , that assoon as ever any person is come to the use of his reason , he is not only bound to think of god , but to love him as his chief good ; and that it is the most dangerous sin of omission not to do it . the latter casuists , who think this doctrine too severe , as to the first use of reason ; yet cannot deny it to hold , assoon as any come to the knowledge of god ; if the want of knowing him be not through their own fault . assoon as they know god , they confess , that they are bound to love him ; but are they not bound to know him assoon as they are capable ? what allowance may be made in the cases of gross ignorance , or natural stupidity we are not concerhed to enquire ; but we now speak of those who have all advantages and opportunities of knowing god betimes ; and as to such their ignorance is so far from being an excuse , that it is their sin. and that can never excuse from a fault , but when it is no fault to be ignorant . but , not to know god when persons know so many other things in the world besides him , is so much greater a fault ; because all those other things lead them to the knowledge of him . so that i take it for granted , that no man of understanding can avoid the knowledge of god , without shutting his eye against the clearest light ; without darkening his understanding by unreasonable prejudices ; without confusion of thought , and perplexity of mind ; without groundless imaginations , and ridiculous suppositions ; and most commonly not without very disorderly passions and vicious habits , which make the very thoughts of god uneasie to his mind . but suppose we do own and believe a god , are we bound always to be thinking of him ? must we spend our time in contemplation of him , and neglect all our affairs here ? if not , what are the bounds of our duty which we may not omit without sin ? there are two things which are necessary for us to do with respect to god in our minds . . to have frequent and serious thoughts of him ; without which it will be impossile to keep our minds in that temper which they ought to be in . for the thoughts of god keep up a vigorous sense of religion , inflame our devotion , calm our passions , and are the most powerfull check against the force of temptations . and therefore we ought to allow our selves fit times of retirement for recollection and consideration ; wherein we draw in our thoughts from the business and impertinencies of this life ( and even these go a great way in that which looks like business ) that we may converse with god and our own minds . and those who do not sometimes withdraw from the noise and hurry , the dust and confusion of this world , must be great strangers both to god and themselves ; and mind any thing rather than their chiefest interest . but i am afraid there are too many among us , of whom the psalmist's words are too true , god is not in all their thoughts ; i wish there were not some who would make good another reading of those words , viz. all their thoughts are there is no god. but i think not so much their deliberate thoughts , as their wishes and desires . but those can never alter the nature of things ; and therefore the wisest thing they can do , is to make the thoughts of god desirable to them ; and that can be only by reconciling themselves to him by a hearty and sincere repentance . . we are always bound to have an habitual temper and disposition of mind towards god. this is that which is commonly called the love of god ; and is opposed to the love of sin. which doth not consist in sudden and transient acts of complacency and delight in him ; but in a firm purpose and resolution of mind to obey him . the jews think that the fundamental precept of the law as to the love of god with all their heart and soul and strength , goes no farther than that they should do that which the law requires as to the worship and service of god. but certainly the love of god must go deeper , and rise higher , or else it will never come up to the great design of religion ; which is , not only to do those outward acts of service which he commands and expects from us ; but to bring our souls nearer to him , to make him our chief end ; and to direct the course of our lives and the acts of our obedience in order to it . now this is a duty towards god so necessary to our happiness , that we must be always obliged to it , and at all times ; although it be an affirmative precept . for the true reason of the difference of obligation is from the nature of the commands , and not from the manner of expressing them either negatively or affirmatively . the reason of the perpetual obligation of negative precepts is , that it can never be lawfull to do what god forbids ; but it may be sometimes lawfull to omit what he requires ; because the circumstances may make it not to be a duty at that time . but when an affirmative precept is of that nature that no circumstances can alter the obligation of it , then it binds as much as a negative . and so it is as to the command of true repentance , and turning from the love of sin , to the love of god ; for no man can be in such circumstances wherein he is not bound to do it . but as to particular acts of repentance and of the love of god , supposing that habitual temper , the obligation of them is according to the proper seasons and occasions of them . when a sinner is conscious to himself of fresh acts of sin , he is bound to renew his repentance , and the omission of it adds to his guilt ; and when god calls men to repentance in a more than ordinary manner , by strong convictions of conscience ; or some awakening providence ; or by some solemn times of fasting ; he is guilty of a farther aggravation of his sin , if he neglects those seasons of performing the proper acts of repentance . but suppose we do know god , and have this habitual love to him as our chief end , doth this come up to all that mankind owes to god ? do we know him and love him and serve him as we ought to do ? do we not fail in the manner and degree of those very duties which we in some measure perform ? and are not these failings omissions ? and will not these omissions be charged upon us as sins ? how then can mankind hope to escape the wrath of god against those who continue in the practice of sin ? to answer this , we must distinguish between omission as a defect and as a wilfull sin. we must say , as st. james doth , in many things we offend all ; and in all things , i am afraid , we offend some way or other ; if god would be exact to mark what is done amiss . but here lies the main point as to this matter , how far god will charge those things upon us as omissions , which in us come rather from want of power than of will to do them ? i do not mean of natural faculties , for those we have entire , but of moral power , i. e. of such a measure of divine grace as will enable us to do things beyond the imperfection and infirmity of our present state ; which , in this fallen condition , is like that of a man under a dead-palsie , who hath all the parts of a man , but not the power of moving them . and where god by his grace doth recover mankind to a new life , yet there are such remainders of the former deadness upon us , as makes us unable to do that which we most desire to do ; and do fail in the manner of performance , where we are sincere as to our purpose and design . but will god lay these moral defects , or infirmities of our corrupt nature on us as wilfull sins now under the gospel ? god forbid . i do not question god's right to command us all that which is just in it self , and he hath given us faculties to do ; but i consider him as a gracious lord towards a decayed tenant , of whom , if he be willing to pay what he is able , he will not exact the uttermost farthing ; as a compassionate commander to a wounded soldier , who is willing to accept what service he is able to do , although he fails in many points of his duty ; as the good samaritan , which poured in wine and oil into the wounds which he had not made ; and diseharged the debt which he had not contracted . if god were not infinitely gracious and mercifull , there were little hopes for us to avoid punishment ; but since he is pleased to deal with us upon the terms of a new covenant , we have reason to hope that he will not charge involuntary neglects and moral disabilities upon us , as sins of omission . . there are duties of external worship and service owing to god ; and how shall we know when the omission of these becomes a sin to us ? for these are not always necessary , and sometimes we may be hindred from them . to answer this , i lay down these rules ; i. a constant or habitual neglect of those duties which god hath appointed for his worship and service , cannot be without a sin of omission ; because , that must arise from an evil temper and disposition of mind . when it comes from a contempt of god and his service , it must be a sin , because the reason of it is a very great one . when it comes barely from a careless , indifferent , slothfull temper , which is glad of any excuses for the neglect or omission of them ; it argues very little sense of religion , or regard to god and his service , when they are so ready to find an excuse for their fault . but some are ready to justifie themselves in such a neglect , as though all the outward worship of god were meer ceremony , and only a decent way of entertaining the people with some outward pomp and shew of devotion towards a divine majesty . i am afraid , such hardly mention a divine majesty , but in a complement ; however , we are willing to believe that they do own such a being , but they think it a vain thing to serve him ; as though he could be moved by our prayers to him , or praises of him . we do not deny that god is infinitely above all our services : but is that a reason why we should not serve him in the way he requires it from us ? he doth not want our services , but we want his favour and blessings ; and can we expect them , when we slight that little service , in comparison of the time he allows for other imployments , which he expects from us ? if we had nothing but the light of nature to direct us , we should conclude it very reasonable that mankind should own their creator , by some outward , and publick , and stated ways and times of worship . for this is no more than natural justice to own our maker and benefactor ; and can it become less necessary , when he hath declared himself pleased with the performance of them , and made great promises to those who call upon him ? but this , say they , is the greatest difficulty of all , to understand what effect our prayers can have upon the eternal counsels of heaven ; since they are already fixed and cannot be reversed by our prayers . as great as this difficulty is , the true point of it is only this ; whether we are to believe and trust the frequent and repeated promises of god , altho' we are not able to comprehend , how the efficacy of our prayers is taken in , as a necessary condition towards the execution of god's eternal purposes . for , if they are conditions , as the scripture often tells us ; then we may easily understand what is meant by the efficacy of prayers ; and as to the manner of reconciling such contingent conditions with god's eternal purposes ; it is a difficulty which will afford perpetual matter of dispute , but ought no more to hinder us from plain duties , than a man should be from going a necessary journey , till he be satisfied whether the earth moves about the sun , or the sun about the earth . ii. whether the omission of such publ●ck duties of divine worship be a sin or not , depends very much on the reason and occasion of it . for if it be a wilfull neglect , it doth imply a degree of contempt , and that cannot be without sin. and that is a wilfull neglect , when nothing but an act of a man 's own will hinders him from serving god in publick : i do not mean only at the very time , but if he hath by some former act of his will brought an incapacity upon himself , that want of power doth not excuse , when the impotency arises from a voluntary act of his own . if it be intended on purpose to hinder , it is as wilfull in its cause , as if there were no such impediment . for , although the actual impediment be the immediate cause of the omission ; yet it is the design and purpose which makes it wilfull . but if persons by an act of providence without their own fault be hindred from the worship of god as by long sickness ; no one can say , that this omission is wilfull , and therefore cannot be accounted a sin. but if a person by his intemperance and debauchery hath brought himself into an incapacity of attending on the service of god ; we cannot say that the actual omission was wilfull ; but we may justly say , that the original cause was so ; and that it cannot excuse the omission . ii. but besides the duties which we owe to god , there are such which we owe to one another , which cannot be omitted without sin. but here the stating of the case seems yet more difficult , since there is not so plain an authority to oblige , nor such a relation to each other , as we stand in to god. and besides the circumstances of humane affairs are oftentimes so intricate and perplexed , that it is very hard for persons to know their duties , and much more to practise them . but there are certainly such duties , which we owe both to the publick and to one another ; and it may be of some use to us to understand the force of the obligation , and what those are which cannot be omitted without sin. . as to the publick ; and concerning that , we may take notice of two rules ; . those duties cannot be omitted without sin , which cannot be omitted without prejudice to the publick good. by which i do not mean any fancifull notions , or pretences to it , but the true and real publick interest of the nation ; which consists in the preservation of our religion and laws . the main duty of this kind , which i shall insist upon , is the laying aside all heats and animosities and distinctions of parties , and minding and carrying on that which is the undoubted common interest of us all . what is the meaning of all those jealousies and suspicions which are among us , when we all profess to own the same religion , the same laws , and the same government ? this is a very melancholy subject to speak of ; for this unseasonable difference of parties among our selves , is like a flaming meteor in the air , we can hardly keep our selves from looking upon it ; and yet cannot behold it without some kind of terror and amazement . it is disputed among the casuists , whether if a man sees two men fighting with each other ▪ he be bound to part them to his own hazard ; and the general resolution is , that if he be in a private capacity he is not , but in a publick he is . i hope the publick capacity , i appear in here at this time , will excuse my interposing to allay such heats and animosities as are not only of dangerous consequence , but great sins . and therefore , unless i would be guilty of omitting a duty my self , i must ( and will ) lay open the mischief of such divided interests as the difference of parties carries along with them . when god had given children to rebekah , while they were yet unborn , and in their mother's womb , she found them struggling within her to such a degree as made her in a consternation to cry out , if it be so , why am i thus ? i. e. if god hath given me these children for blessings , what is the meaning of this struggling between them ? and it is said , her concernment was so great , that she went to enquire of the lord. some think that melchisedek was still living at salem , and that she went to him , to consult about the consequence of it ; and he was a very proper person for it ; for he was king of righteousness and king of peace . and those are the best antidotes against the strugglings and animosities of those who have the same common interest and obligations . we need not to consult any oracle in this case ; for st. paul hath told us that , if we bite and devour one another ; not like canibals , but like different parties , living in hatred and malice and animosity to each other ; take heed , saith he , that ye be not consumed one of another . as if he had said , things cannot always continue at this pass , the inward fires , if not suppressed , will break out at last , and in probability end in your mutual destruction . nothing hath more puzzled the wits of men in this inquisitive age , than to give an account of the ebbing and flowing of the sea ; but a great man of our nation hath told us , that we need not run to the moon , or other remoter causes ; for the true reason of it is nothing else but the clashing of the waters of two mighty seas crossing each other ; and therefore , where there are no such contrary motions , there is no such ebbing and flowing . we have too much of this ebbing and flowing upon land , both as to our condition and expectation . but whence comes it ? is it not from two parties among us crossing and striving to overtop and overpower each other ? and till we unite and join in the same common current , we have little cause to hope for a state of peace and tranquility . our saviour tells us , a kingdom divided against it self cannot stand . i need not tell you of what kingdom he speaks ; but it was such a one , where there would be no subtilty or diligence wanting in the several parties as to carrying on their designs ; but he looks on an united common interest so necessary to the preservation of government , that he declares , that no kind of society can be supported without it . if we then regard the interest of our nation or of our religion ; if we would avoid the shame and reproach of destroying by our divisions , what we pretended to value above our lives ; we must lay aside our mutual jealousies and suspicions ; we must abate our heats and animosities ; we must unite and join in the things that belong to our peace . but if they be hid from our eyes ; then i am afraid what st. paul said of the gospel may be too truly applied to the things of our peace ; if they be hid , they are hid to them that are lost ; in whom the god of this world hath blinded their eyes . for it is too apparent , that the true ground of the contention of the several parties , is not matter of conscience or religion , or the common interest of the nation , but about power and superiority over each other ; which , if it be carried on , in humane probability can end in nothing but mutual destruction . which god of his mercy prevent . ii. men cannot without sin omit the doing those duties which their places do require from them . for those are intended for a publick benefit . those who study to be quiet , and to do their own business , are not only the best christians , but the best instruments of the publick good. whereas , men of turbulent , restless and ambitious minds , who make abundance of noise and clamour , are like wasps , always flying and buzzing about , and very angry and peevish and discontented ; but are nothing so usefull as the more silent and industrious bees ; which make the best of every thing , and serve the common interest by it . every society of men is a body made up of head and members knit and compacted together by joints and bands ; but all have their several uses and functions , and while these are duly performed , the whole is preserved ; but if the feet should mutiny against the other parts , because they bear the burthen of the whole ; or the stomach , that it is loaded and oppressed with what serves for the nourishment of all ; or the head , that it must direct and contrive and manage all ; what would the effect be of such complaints and discontents at their own share , but that the whole body must suffer by them . while all the materials of a building are kept in their due place and order , the whole is strengthened and supported ; but if they start out of their places and tumble one upon another , the whole must fall . there are always some who love to carry on their own ends under publick pretences ; and if those be not attained , they matter not what becomes of all other interests , although their own must suffer with the rest . these are like the ivy to a flourishing tree , which seems to embrace it and stick close to it , but it is for its own advantage ; but at the same time , it weakens it and hinders its growth , and if it falls , it must perish together with it . but there are others , who by the very duties of their places are bound to regard the publick and the good of others ; and when they do it not , they are certainly guilty of sins of omission in a high degree . for every such place is a trust from god , of which an account must be given ; and a sacred and solemn obligation goes along with them ; so that there can be no sins of omission in such cases , without sins of commission of as high a nature as breach of trust , and of the most solemn obligations . the truth is , the world is so humoursome and fantastical a thing , that it will hardly endure to be made better ; so that those who have the greatest zeal and resolution to do good , are extremely discouraged in it , when they find so many objections and difficulties ; such frowardness and perverseness in some , such remisness and coldness in others , such an universal lassitude and indifferency , that it is enough to check the best inclinations that way , and to make them leave the world to be managed as it will. and there are some seasons wherein it is much harder to do good than in others . such i mean , when wickedness and vice have corrupted the very principles of men's minds ; when they account it a piece of wit to be profane , and a higher sort of breeding to despise religion and vertue ; when some are ready to pervert the best designs , and mix such mean and sinister ends of their own with them , and thereby blast them , that they come to nothing ; when others will not endure that good may be done , unless they may have the sole doing of it , and endeavour to lessen the reputation of all who are not altogether such as themselves ; when all imaginable arts are used to make government contemptible ; and the best purposes ineffectual ; lastly , when any who are bound to carry on the publick good , account it wisdom to do little or nothing in their places , and take all possible care to disoblige no body by doing their duties , for fear of evil consequences ; i say , when such seasons d● happen , there is a very melancholy prospect of affairs , and little hopes of doing or of seeing good. ii. i now proceed to the good which we are to do with respect to others of the same nature and in a worse condition than our selves ; and therefore need our help and assistance . this is so remarkable a sense of doing good , that it hath almost appropriated the name to it self ; as good works are generally taken for works of charity . these are such , as all agree , that they cannot be wholly omitted without sin ; but the difficulty lies in stating the measure and seasons of the obligation to them . concerning which , these rules may be observed : . that the measures of duty in this case are very different , according to the different circumstances and conditions of persons . for , although the standing general rules of our duty are fixed and unalterable ; yet the particular obligations depend upon great ●ariety of circumstances , as to those who are to do and to receive good. if the easiness of persons conditions in the world will afford their laying by a constant stock of charity , it will be always in readiness for such occasions , when we would be more willing to do good if it were in our power ; but it is hardly possible to make such rules which may not give occasions for trouble to scrupulous minds , when they do not strictly observe them . but we are all so far bound to do good to those in want , that the not doing it according to our abilities and opportunities , is such a sin of omission as is inconsistent with true christianity ; but of those , every person is ●eft to judge ; but so , as he must give an account of it at the great day . for , it is observable , that our saviour speaking of the proceedings then , particularly mentions the sins of omission with respect to the doing good to others . . there are particular seasons , when a greater measure of doing good is required than at others : i. e. when persons suffer for religion and a good conscience ; when the necessities of people are more general and pressing ; when great objects of charity are certainly known to our selves and concealed from others ; when a present relief puts them into a way of doing good for themselves ; when god hath done good to us after a more remarkable manner than he hath to others ; when we do the more good , because we have done so much evil ; and thereby manifest the sincerity of our repentance , by bringing forth such fruits worthy of amendment of life ; when our calling and profession is to do good ; and we are bound to give the best examples to others according to our abilities : when our religion suffers by not doing good , and our faith is questioned for want of good works ; lastly , when there are no such natural drains of charity , as children and near relations which need our assistance ; in these and many other instances of a like nature , there is so much greater obligation to the doing good , that it cannot be omitted without sin. ii. i now come in the last place , to consider the nature of the obligation we lye under to do the good we know . and the reason of considering this , is from the comparison of several duties with one another ; for we may be bound to several things at the same time , but we cannot perform them together ; and the difficulty then is to understand , which of these duties we may omit without sin. and the comparison may be threefold ; . as to the nature of the duties . . as to the authority which enjoyns them . . as to the particular obligation we are under to do them . . as to the nature of our duties . for there are several kinds of things that are good ; and we are to have a different regard to them . some things are good because they are commanded ; and some things are commanded , because they are good ; and even god himself allows us to make a difference between these , when himself saith , i will have mercy , and not sacrifice ; although he required both ; but if it happens that both cannot be done , then he prefers the former , altho' his own honour seems more concerned in the latter . our saviour extends this rule to mercy on the souls of men ; and to mercy on our bodies , even out of the case of urgent or extreme necessity , which cannot be pleaded in the apostle's case of plucking the ears of corn on the sabbath day . but from hence we have ground to inferr , that when two duties interfere with one another , we are bound to preferr the greater and more substantial duty , and then the omission of the lesser is no sin. . as to the authority which requires them . there is no question , but when the authority of god and man do contradict each other , god is to be obeyed rather than man. but the authority of god's command is not equally clear in all cases ; for some things are required plainly and directly , and some things by consequence and parity of reason ; some things are declared and enforced by the gospel , others left to our own deductions and inferences ; some things are made positive commands for all ages , others are reported by way of example , but that example understood by the church to have the force of a command ; now , in all these and other like cases , we ought to have the greatest regard to plain , positive , moral and perpetual commands ; but withall , to have a due regard to consequential and usefull duties , especially where the church of god hath always so understood them , which is the best interpreter of such doubtfull cases , where the sense of it is truly delivered to us . . as to the obligation we are under ; and that is three-fold . . that of nature , which is , to act according to reason ; and none can question that , but those who question , whether there be any such principle as reason in mankind ; and whosoever do so , have reason to begin at home . . of christianity , which supposes and enforces that of nature , and superadds many other duties which we are bound to perform as christians . . of our several relations , and particular imployments . as to the former , we are under great obligations from god and nature and christianity , to do the duties which belong to us in them . as to the latter , they commonly require a stricter obligation by oath , to do those things which otherwise we are not bound to do . but being entered into it by a voluntary act of our own , we cannot omit such duties without sin , but where the circumstances of things do supersede the obligation . thus i have gone through , as clearly and distinctly as i could , the most usefull cases relating to sins of omission ; it remains now , that i make some application to our selves . when we reflect on our lives and actions , our sins of commission are apt to terrifie our consciences , and make us very apprehensive of the wrath of god ; but how few are any ways concerned for their sins of omission , viz. for not discharging the duties of their places , for not doing the good they might and ought to have done , for not serving god with diligence and exemplary devotion , for not having their minds so fixed and intent upon him as they ought to have on their creatour and preserver and redeemer ? in a very corrupt age not to be remarkable for doing evil is a kind of saintship ; but how few are remarkable for doing good ? and yet that is one of the best characters of saintship . how much time is squandred away in vanity and folly ? and yet , how is that grudged which is spent in the worship of god ? o what a burthen it is to serve god , and spend any time in devotion ! how many excuses and pretences of business will such make rather than attend upon religious duties , which themselves would judge very frivolous in other matters ! and will god and conscience be satisfied with such unequal dealing , such notorious partiality ? let us deal faithfully and sincerely with our selves ; are we as ready to serve god as to serve our lusts and pleasures ? have we the same regard to his worship that we have to any thing we really love and esteem ? if not , there must be something very much amiss in the temper and disposition of the mind ; and we are highly concerned to look into it . i do not speak now of casual and accidental omissions of some particular duties at some times ; but of a general unconcernedness about matters of religion , as though they were either too high in the speculation , or too mean and low in the practice of them ; or at least , that it is no great matter one way or other , whether they mind them or not . this , i am afraid , is too much the temper of the age we live in ; which seems to be sinking into a strange indifferency about religion . it is possible for persons to have a zeal against some corrupt opinions and practices in religion ; and yet to have no true zeal or concernment for religion it self . for they may so much hate being imposed upon by false pretenders , that carry on an interest and faction , under the shew of religion , as from thence to suspect all religion to be nothing else ; which is as unreasonable , as for a man to conclude , that all merchants and jewellers are cheats , and that there are no such things ( nor can be ) as true diamonds in the world , because he hath fallen into the hands of such as would have cheated him with those which were counterfeit . and it is common with such who design to deceive , that what they want in sincerity , they make up with confidence . this is a good argument for caution and looking about us ; but it is none at all for our indifferency about matters of religion . for it is not here , as in jewels , which are fine things to look upon ; but the happiness of life doth not depend upon them . but would any one let alone things necessary to the support of life , because poison may be put into them ? we may take care to prevent it ; but we must have the necessaries of life ; and it would be great folly to die for want of sustenance , for fear of being poysoned . if we have no true love to god and religion , we must perish ; for there is no hopes of salvation without it . and if we go on in a careless indifferency about god and his service ; if we do not do our endeavours for suppressing wickedness and vice ; if we do not mind religion our selves , nor are incouraging it in others , it will shew that we have not that love of god and religion which we ought to have . therefore , if we regard the honour of god , our own salvation ; the duties of our places , the interest of the nation , and the satisfaction of all that are wise and good , we must shake off all this coldness and indifferency about religion , and apply our selves heartily and sincerely to promote the great ends of it ; which are , to make persons good in this world , and happy in another . which god of his mercy grant , &c. sermon xi . preached at white-hall : before the princess of denmark , february the th . / ; . st. matth. xxvi . . watch and pray that ye enter not into temptation ; the spirit indeed is willing , but the flesh is weak . these words were spoken by our saviour , to his disciples , at a critical time , when they were just entring into temptation , but they were very little apprehensive of it , and of their inability to withstand it . like jonas , they were fallen asleep when the storm was gathering about them , and did not imagine they were so near being cast into a rough and tempestuous sea. it was but a little before , ver. . that christ had entertained them at the proper banquet of the messias , ( which the jews speak so much of ) but not such a one as they fansied , made up of the greatest delicacies and varieties of meats and drinks ; but at a supper of his own appointing , where ordinary bread and wine were made use of to set forth the most unvaluable kindness , which was ever manifested to the world , in his now approaching agonies , and suffering on the cross for the expiation of the sins of it . one would have thought , the very mention of the shedding of his blood , ver. . should have startled and amazed , and confounded the spirits of his few , weak , and concerned disciples , who placed all their happiness and comfort in the presence and safety of their beloved lord. especially , when he took his solemn leave of them after this supper , in that admirable discourse related by s. john , which he concludes with that most divine prayer , chap. . but all this made no great impression upon them at that time ; not through any natural dulness or stupidity ; but they were so possessed with an opinion of his power and wisdom to free himself from danger and suffering , and they had seen so many experiments of it , that they could not believe it till they saw him actually betrayed and carried away . for when he told them , as they were going up to jerusalem , that he should be betrayed , condemned , mocked and scourged and crucified ; the evangelist saith , they understood none of these things ; i. e. they took all that relates to the greatness of his sufferings , and his departure from them , to be some deep mystery and allegory , which their capacities could not comprehend , and that because of his figurative and parabolical way of speaking ; as when he said , he would not henceforth drink of the fruit of the vine , untill he drank it new with them in the kingdom of heaven . they could not tell ; but the shedding his blood might be as figurative an expression as this was . our saviour perceiving them to be still so secure and inapprehensive , after the usual hymn at the end of the passover , he takes them out to accompany him to a garden near the mount of olives , whither as s. john saith , he often resorted with his disciples . as they were going along our saviour tells them more plainly , that very night such a wonderful alteration would happen among them , that they who now seemed to value him above all the world , and to rejoyce in nothing but his presence , would shamefully forsake him and disown him , all ye shall be offended because of me this night ; s. peter had so little mistrust of himself , that he boldly answered , though all men should be offended because of thee , yet will i never be offended . our saviour pittied him for his weakness and presumption ; and withal tells him , though he thought so well of himself then , he would fall the first and the foulest of any ; jesus said unto him , verily i say unto thee , that this night before the cock crow thou shalt deny me thrice . yet such was s. peter's confidence of himself by reason of his present warmth and resolution , that he replies , with great assurance , though i should die with thee , yet will i not deny thee . it was bravely said , and no doubt at that time he meant as he spake . but this resolution was not peculiar to him ; for the rest of the disciples expressed the same . likewise also said all the disciples . never did persons seem better resolved than these ; there was no hypocrisie , or false-heatedness , no artifice or design in all this ; they verily believed themselves , and did not in the least question , but they could as readily die for christ at that time , as they could live with him . but our blessed lord was more sensible of their weakness , than they were themselves ; he knew what a sudden change his apprehension and arraignment would cause in their minds ; how their passions would be too strong for their resolutions ; and they who so lately had declared they would die with christ , could not have the heart to stand by him : therefore , although his own sufferings came on very fast upon him , and seized first upon his mind , when he said , my soul is exceeding sorrowful even unto death ; and pray'd in that passionate manner to be delivered , when he fell on his face and said , o my father , if it be possible let this cup pass from me , &c. yet he was so concerned for his poor disciples that were so little apprehensive of their danger that they were fallen asleep in the garden ; that in the midst of his own agonies he rouzes them up , and gently awakes them , for their unseasonable drousiness , what , could ye not watch with me one hour ? and immediately subjoyns this short exhortation , watch and pray that ye enter not into temptation . from which words , we may consider , ( . ) the insufficiency of mere present resolutions without watchfulness and prayer . ( . ) the reason of that insufficiency from the weakness of the flesh , joyned with the weakness of the spirit . ( . ) the necessity arising from hence of watchfulness and prayer . but before i come to these particulars , it will be necessary to give some account of what is meant by entring into temptation here ; which implies one of these two things : either , ( . ) that they might be kept from extraordinary tryals , which seems to be meant in the lords prayer , when we say , lead us not into temptation . for to tempt in general is no more than to try ; and a state of temptation is a state of tryal ; to pray therefore that we may not be put into a state of temptation , is to pray our selves out of this world , which was designed by almighty god for a state of tryal in order to another world. therefore when we pray not to be led into temptation , the meaning is , that god by his wise providence would keep us from such tryals , which according to the ordinary measures of grace we should hardly be able to withstand . for , although it be possible for those to whom god gives extraordinary assistance , not only to resist the temptation but to triumph over it , and to shake off temptations as st. paul did the viper from his hand ; on which account st. james saith to such heroic christians , my brethren count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations . and , blessed is the man which endureth temptation , &c. yet , considering the frailty of humane nature , and that god is not obliged to give extraordinary assistance in difficult cases , it is a wise and becoming petition for us to our heavenly father , that he would not lead us in this manner into temptation , or as our saviour here expresses it , to pray that we enter not into temptation . ( . ) but because our saviour very well knew that his disciples were so suddenly to enter into temptation in the former sense ; and because it is not fit for us to set bounds to gods infinite wisdom with respect to our condition , therefore there is a farther meaning in this expression , viz. that if it seems fitting to him who hath the power and right to dispose of us , to single us out for great temptations , or more than ordinary trials of our constancy or resolution , that then he would give such supplies of his grace and holy spirit as may enable us to withstand the force of the temptation , so , as we be not overcome by it . and these two take in the whole sense of this expression , that ye enter not into temptation . we are allowed to pray to be kept out of it ; but we are bound to pray and to watch too , least we fall by the power of temptation , which is then done when the motives proper to this world prevail over those which relate to another . the motives of another world are those of a future and eternal happiness ; the motives of this world are those of present pleasure , honour and riches ; and when these come to be inconsistent with our duty , or apt to draw us from it , they are said to be temptations to us . for no sin of it self is a temptation , but something else to be enjoyed by the commission of sin ; or which cannot be enjoyed without it . as in the case here mentioned by our saviour of st. peter's denying his master , there was no temptation in the sin it self ; for what was there in an act so mean , so shameful , so ungrateful to tempt him to commit it , but it was the desire of his present safety , and the fear of running into the same danger , in which he saw his lord , which was the temptation to him . the sins of luxury and intemperance , that of riot and drunkenness , of chambring and wantonness , are not temptations in themselves ; but the sensual pleasure which accompanies them , though it be forbidden , is apt to draw the lovers of it from the strict rules of sobriety and chastity . it is the love of this world , i. e. of the riches and honours of it , which make the sins of ambition and covetousness so plausible and prevailing among those who profess to believe another world . their souls are like a piece of iron between two load-stones of an unequal magnitude and distance ; the one is far greater , and hath more force in it self to attract , but it is placed at a far greater distance ; the other is much less but very near , and therefore may more powerfully draw , than that which is more forcible but farther off . i do not think , that all those who commit sin by the power of temptation are presently infidels and dis-believe another world ; but , although they do believe the happiness of another life , yet it is at a distance , it is out of their view and beyond their apprehension ; and therefore doth not work so effectually , as present , visible , sensible delights do ; which have all the advantage of suitableness to our present state , of familiarity , nearness , and insinuation . it is the great excellency and usefulness of faith , that by it we not only believe the things of another world , but that it makes things future to be to us , as if they were present , and things invisible to have such an influence , as if they were visible ; and therefore , the apostle calls it , the substance of things hoped for , and the evidence of things not seen . invisible things must have a real being , before they can be believed ; and there must be evidence to the mind before there can be true faith ; how then can faith be the substance and evidence of things future and possible . i answer , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not meerly signifie a real being in opposition to fancies and chimera's ; but a firm , solid and permanent being ; therefore things which are passing , even as time and motion , are said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 things that had no consistence or hypostasis ; and being applied to the mind , it signifies a firm and unshaken confidence , an inward satisfaction of the truth of divine revelation , an assured expectation of what god hath promised ; and from hence arises that influence which faith hath on the minds of men , in resisting the temptations of this world. therefore the two great principles which govern mankind , are faith and sense ; while they are acted by the former , they are said to resist temptation ; when they are sway'd by sense as it is opposed to faith , and includes in it the motives of this world , then they are said to give way to temptation , or to be overcome by it . and so i come to consider , ( . ) the insufficiency of present resolution , to keep us from the power of temptation without watchfulness and prayer . it is hard to imagine a greater instance of a firm present resolution , than there was in st. peter and the rest of the apostles ; nor a sadder example of the insufficiency of it ; which ought to make us hear and fear , and not be too presumptuous . resolution is certainly one of the best means in the world to withstand temptations to sin , for it hath these advantages , ( . ) it keeps the mind steady and fixed , and therefore prepared to resist a temptation when it comes . whereas an irresolved mind leaves a man open to the first assault . it is like disputing in a garrison who shall command , when the enemy is at the gates . a fixed and settled mind in religion is of mighty consequence against all temptations ; for then every thing is in order for resisting when reason governs the mind , and the mind determines the will , and the will stands bent and resolved upon that , which upon due consideration appears to conduce most to our eternal happiness . ( . ) it takes off the false colours and appearances of things ; for every thing may be represented plausibly to an irresolute mind . temptations to sin would never be called so , if there were not something tempting in them ; and whatever is tempting must have a free appearance in one respect or other ; and while a person is irresolved , he suffers all the force of temptation to come upon him . but a resolved mind keeps it at a distance , and so breaks the power of it ; whereas he who lets go his resolution and treats with a temptation , is like one who plays with a tarantula and is bitten before he is aware of it . but there are two sorts of resolutions . ( . ) some that are sudden and made in a heat and passion ; without due consideration and weighing of things ; and such as these are of no great force or continuance . and it is often seen that the same heat which caused the resolution to be made proves the occasion of breaking it , when it is carried another way . the inconstancy of their temper makes them resolve , hoping thereby to bind up themselves the faster , but nature and temptations soon grow too hard for such resolutions , which are made only by a sudden passion . ( . ) there are others which are made about matters of plain duty , and against known temptations to sin ; after a due sense of our own folly and weakness , and a firm purpose never more to return to the practise of sin. and these are wise and pious , as well as serious and deliberate resolutions ; such no doubt the disciples of christ had , when they left all and followed christ ; besides this sudden resolution they took up , that they would rather die with christ than deny him . yet taking altogether our saviour tells them , they ought to watch and pray that they enter not into temptation ; and he gives the reason for it in the following words , the spirit indeed is willing , but the flesh is weak . ( . ) in which words he gives an account of the reason of the inconstancy , and insufficiency of good resolutions , viz. that although the spirit be willing , yet there is something we carry about us , which weakens our best resolutions , and betrays us into temptations ; our flesh is weak which being so near us , as to be a part of our selves , makes our case more dangerous , and enforces the necessity of watchfulness and prayer . but here arises one of the most useful , necessary and important cases that relates to practical christianity ; which i shall first set down in its full force , and then endeavour to clear it . the case is this ; how far , and in what circumstances the weakness of the flesh doth lessen the guilt of sin , which is committed by it ? if it be not an extenuation of the sin , why doth our saviour mention it in such a manner ? and if it be , then these inconveniencies follow ; ( . ) it seems to abate the necessity of our care and watchfulness , if the sin be lessened through the weakness of the flesh , which is unavoidable in this imperfect state. ( . ) it seems to be a fair plea and excuse for the greatest part of the sins of mankind . for , ( . ) the original inclination to sin in mankind , comes from the weakness of the flesh ; the very frame of humane nature being such as exposes them to continual temptations . there is a natural combat between the flesh and the spirit ; for the flesh lusteth against the spirit , and the spirit against the flesh , and these are contrary the one to the other , as the apostle speaks ; and all mankind find it too true : now wherever the flesh is , there are inclinations agreeable to it , and these being contrary to the dictates of the mind , all the sins of the flesh will appear to come from the weakness of the flesh. ( . ) the frequent commission of the same sins will be laid upon the weakness of the flesh. for the generality of mankind do not sin out of defiance to god or his laws , or with an obstinate resolution to sin ; for , they know their duty , and wish they could perform it ; but alas ! the flesh is too hard for the spirit in them . they have many convictions in their minds , many good purposes , and serious resolutions at some times ; and if they do sin it is not with their whole wills , for they have great strugglings and checks of conscience within , even while they commit those sins . and therefore what can their continuing in sin be so properly attributed to , as to the weakness of the flesh. ( . ) relapses into the same sin after repentance , seems to proceed from the weakness of the flesh. for he that hath once smarted severely for his sins , and suffered under the agonies of conscience for them ; he that hath gone so far , as not meerly to lament his folly , and to abhor his wickedness , but to make solemn vows and promises , and resolutions never more to return to the practice of them ; it is hard to conceive , that such a one should fall into his sins again with his whole mind and soul ; for the light of conscience when it is once throughly kindled , is not easily put out ; it is a secret fire which burns inward , and can hardly be extinguished ; and all those who sin against conscience , the dictates of their minds are right while they commit their sins ; and therefore even these sins seem to be excused by the weakness of the flesh. but on the other side , the scripture is plain and express , that sins which do come from the flesh , do exclude from the kingdom of heaven . the works of the flesh are manifest , saith st. paul , adultery , fornication , uncleanness , lasciviousness , &c. drunkenness , revelling and such like , which are properly sins of the flesh. of the which i tell you before , as i have also told you in time past , that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of god. and in another place , for this ye know , that no whoremonger , nor unclean person , nor covetous man , who is an idolater hath any inheritance in the kingdom of christ , and of god. let no man deceive you with vain words ; for because of these things comet● the wrath of god on the children of disobedience . would god be so severe , under the dispensation of his mercy to punish mankind , with utter exclusion from heaven , and eternal misery for sins , which came meerly from the weakness of the flesh ? then indeed there were just cause to bewail the sad condition of humanity , born under one law to another bound , created sick , commanded to be sound . but god will vindicate his justice at the great day , and mankind shall be fully satisfied , that none shall be damned for the meer weakness of the flesh , but for the sins of their will and choice ; that , as they had evil inclinations from the flesh , so they had good inclinations from the grace of god ; and the law of their minds , ought to have governed and kept under the law of their members ; that others by the same assistance which was offered to them , have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts thereof ; that the grace of god doth enable them to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts , and to live soberly , righteously and godly in this present world ; that , if men do fail of the grace of god , it is through their own fault ; that those who relapse into sin after repentance , and escaping the pollutions of the world , their latter end is worse than the beginning ; and in short , if men do live after the flesh they shall die , but if through the spirit they do mortifie the deeds of the body , they shall live . all which shews , that there is so great a possibility of fubduing the inclinations of the flesh , that if men neglect it , and give way to the fulfilling of them , this very thing will be imputed to them , as a wilfull and damning sin. but here the difficulty still rises ; for christ supposes that his own disciples even the most forward , and the best resolved might fall through the infirmity of the flesh , and they did so , upon no great temptation ; as appears by st. peter's denying his master in so dreadful a manner , upon so slight a provocation as the damsels saying to him , thou also wast w●●h jesus of galilee . what a mean , low and timorous spirit had possessed st. peter at that time ? was this he , who but a few hours before said , that though he should die with him , he would not deny him ? lord ? what is man ? verily , in his best estate he is altogether vanity . what ? st. peter deny his lord , who made that confession of him which christ owned was not revealed to him by flesh and blood , but by his father in heaven , viz. that he was the christ the son of the living god ? st. peter ? who when other disciples went back , said to christ , lord to whom shall we go ? thou hast the words of eternal life . and we believe and are sure , that thou art the christ the son of the living god. st. peter , who was so forward to defend our saviour , that he drew his sword and cut of malchus his ear ! for him in so little a time after to deny his lord , not only once but twice , nay a third time , and that with execrations upon himself ! this seems to be a sin so wilful , so deliberate , so presumptuous , that if this may be excused through the weakness of the flesh , what may not ? what then shall we say ? doth god put such a difference between persons , that those sins are meer infirmities in his account in some , which would be accounted presumptuous sins in others ? no certainly , god is a righteous judge ; and he is no respecter of persons , for by him actions are weighed ; he judges things as they are here , and will judge men according to them hereafter . was it , that he repented presently , and wept bitterly ? this was a very good symptom , when he came t● himself so soon , that the disease was not deeply rooted in him ; and that it was rather a sudden passion which overcame him , than a deliberate and wilful action ; which he shewed most effectually by returning to his duty , and being more active and exemplary in it . whereas judas his agonies of conscience , ended in despair and self-murder . but by what certain rules may we proceed to judge what sins are wilful and presumptuous , and what are sins of infirmity , or such as come from the weakness of the flesh. we have two ways to judge by , ( . ) from the nature of moral actions . ( . ) from the scriptures , declaring what sins are inconsistent with the state of salvation . for there are two sorts of infirmities . ( . ) such as belong to particular actions . ( . ) such as belong to our state and condition . ( . ) as to the infirmities of particular actions . there are three things which do very much alter and discriminate the nature of moral actions . ( . ) the choice and consent of the will. ( . ) the truce and deliberation about it . ( . ) the manner of committing it . ( . ) as to the choice and consent of the will. here we are to observe two rules , ( . ) whatever lessens the freedom of the will before the act of sin doth lessen the guilt of it . so that , whether it be ignorance or want of consideration , or some sudden and violent passion , as much as it abates the freedom of choice or consent of the will , so much it takes away from the greatness of its guilt . but here we must suppose , that which takes away the freedom of the will , not to be in it self a sin ; for then original corruption would be an excuse for all other sins which flow from it . and those who have sinned themselves into a necessity of sinning , would be able to sin no longer ; and thus the devils themselves , and the worst of men would be the least of sinners . but setting this aside , the rule holds good , that so far as our choice and consent is taken away , so far the guilt is extenuated . and from hence sudden and violent passions , melancholy vapours , and a disturbed imagination do lessen the guilt of those sins which are committed thro' the power of them ; and would not have been committed if the person had been himself ; i. e. capable of judging and considering as at other times . ( . ) the case is much harder , as to what takes off from the freedom of consent in the very act of sin. it is true there is not a fulness of consent , where there is a reluctancy of conscience in the commission of sin : but here is an antecedent choice , and that after convictions of conscience , and the worst part prevails , only the other is not quite silent , but gives secret checks , and complains of its hard usage when it cannot overcome . now in this case a sinner is awaken'd , and if he sins it is against clear light and strong convictions , and so the act of sin is the more aggravated ; though there may be more hopes , that the person may repent , because conscience is awake in him ; as there is of one that is sensible of his disease , rather than of him who doth not apprehend the danger he is in . aristotle declares , that all those who are vitious against their judgments are in a state of infirmity ; such are not wicked out of choice , as the rest are ; nor so good , as to overcome their bad inclinations ; but they are in a state of war with themselves ; sometimes reason and conscience prevail , and sometimes vitious inclinations ; and in this case , the event of the war must declare which is the most prevailing side . but in the mean time , the case of such persons is not desperate but very dangerous ; and their sins only shew that conscience is alive in them but very weak , and gives faint and dying groans though it be not dead . ( . ) as to time and deliberation about the act of sin. if there be a real surprize , i. e. that the person is not aware , or hath not time to consider what he is to do , he that hath a mind well resolved , may be betrayed into what he would never have done , if he had time to deliberate about it . and , this was one great extenuation of st. peter's fall ; for , from the time of christ's arraignment he was in a disturbance , and confusion of thoughts ; he was surprized to see christ carried away in such a manner to the high-priests hall ; thither he follows afar off ; but still remembring whose servants ear he had lately cut off . while he was in this confusion and disorder , the damsels question so startled and affrighted him , that he denied his master ; and the fear continuing he repeated that denial , and added imprecations to it . but the great aggravation of the sin of judas was , that it was not only a deliberate act and designed wickedness . and in this respect , david's adultery had greater extenuation than his murder ; because many more thoughts went to the commission of one than of the other ; the one being committed of a sudden , the other after great deliberation , and with much art and contrivance . thus deliberate acts of fraud and injustice , of perjury and rebellion , have a greater aggravation than sins committed by the force of a sudden and violent passion . and those passions which do most hinder deliberation , do proportionably lessen the wilfulness of the sin ; as sudden fear , rash anger and the like . for , fear betrays the succours which reason offers ; and anger intercepts them ; which storms at the first assault , and making its impression before reason takes the alarm . the philosopher determines , that it is a worse thing for a man to be sway'd by his lust than by his anger ; because anger seems to be governed by reason , but is only too hasty in its execution ; but lust hath no regard to the dictates of reason : and there is less of time and deliberation , and contrivance in the one than in the other . but when anger goes inward instead of breaking forth , when it gets to the heart , it then degenerates into malice and revenge , and then it hath the greatest aggravations going along with it . ( . ) as to the manner of committing . if it be committed presumptuously , it is so much the more aggravated . and that consists in these things ; ( . ) the lowest degree of presumption is , when a sin is committed of set purpose ; not only with deliberation but with contrivance , design and resolution . thus by the law a man was said to kill his neighbour presumptuously , when he lay in wait to do it . thus the psalmist opposes presumptuous sins , to those which are committed through ignorance or inadvertency . and where there is a will bent and set to commit sin , there must be an inward and secret contempt of god and his laws ; as nehemiah expresses the presumptuous sinning of their forefathers , they dealt proudly and harden'd their necks , and hearkend not to the commandments , and refused to obey . so that where there is obstinacy and wilful continuance in sin , there men are said to sin presumptuously . if it be done with open contempt and defiance to god and his law. this the scripture calls sinning with a high hand ; and such who do , are said to reproach the lord , and to despise the word of the lord. this , saith maimonides , is beyond sinning out of inclination , or from the power of evil habits or custom ; but it is with a malicious design , to bring the law of god into contempt and dishonour . and this in respect of the gospel , is the sinning wilfully , which the author to the hebrews speaks of : whereby they tread under foot the son of god , and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing , and do despite to the spirit of grace : which implies a malicious design to reproach the gospel . ( . ) as to infirmities , with respect to our present state ; the meaning is , what those failings are , which are consistent with a state of grace and salvation now under the gospel ? to resolve this , we have but one certain rule , that is , whatever failings are consistent with the terms of salvation , are allowed for infirmities by the gospel : and so infirmities are opposed to such sins , as put those who commit them out of the state of grace and salvation . if god were so strict under the covenant of grace , as to require perfect and unsinning obedience , there could be no allowance for infirmities , because even those are a breach of the law of god , and a deviation from a perfect rule : and if god should be exact to mark all irregularities ; or whatever is done amiss , who can stand before his tribunal ? the best men in the world have reason to pray with the psalmist , enter not into judgment with thy servant , for in thy sight shall no man living be justified . for if god were so severe to make no abatements for failings and imperfections , it were impossible for mankind to be saved . but what then doth the gospel mean with all its promises of salvation , and the hopes it gives of eternal life ? if christ's own disciples were in a state of salvation , there must be an allowance made for infirmities and imperfections , which we find them often charged with in the history of our saviour . what meant their vain and eager disputes about superiority and pre-eminence , and that at the most unseasonable time when they were at table with him , just before his suffering . lord ? what a time was this , for them to contend , who should be accounted the greatest ! what meant that passionate zeal in james and john , to call for fire from heaven to consume the samaritans , when they knew it was not a particular dis-respect to our saviour , which made them so rude , but the common quarrel between the samaritans and the jews ? how many errors and mistakes were they liable to , even while our saviour taught them , and those about very weighty points , as the nature of his kingdom , the necessity of his death and resurrection ? what fears and dejections , and disorders were they all under upon our saviour's apprehension , though but a little before they had all resolved to die with him , rather than forsake him ? what was there now under all these infirmities , which made these disciples to be in a state of salvation ? nothing certainly , but their hearty and sincere love to christ , which they manifested before by their constant adhering to him ; and afterwards by continuing to serve him . so that our rule in this case is , that whatever is consistent with the love of christ , and with a sincere and constant endeavour to do his will , will be allowed for infirmities under the gospel ; i. e. for such irregularities which are consistent with a state of salvation . to make this rule more useful , we must consider , . what failings are not consistent with it . . what sort of failings are consistent . ( . ) what failings are not consistent . and those are of three kinds . ( . ) such as come from an habitual carelessness ; or a general neglect of our duty , with respect to god and another world. when persons do not regard what duties they omit , or what sins they practise , it is impossible they . should have any true love to god , or to their own souls . for the first thing which springs from thence is a care to please god , without which there is no salvation . but there are too many in the world , who regard no more than how to live easily and pleasantly in it , a fair estate and reputation , and therefore avoid great and scandalous sins , and the gross neglect of god's publick worship ; but never mind inward and secret sins , such as evil habits , the violence of passions , the vanity of their minds ; being carried away with the pleasing temptations of a deceitful world , without serious considering , or looking into their own temper and disposition ; which may be very vain and sensual , and therefore unfit for heaven , though they be not remarkable for profaneness , or any gross impiety : but the gospel requires a spiritual temper , and disposition of soul to qualifie persons for heaven ; and where ever that is , there will be a constant care to avoid being overcome by the temptations of an alluring and sinful world. ( . ) the habitual practice of any known sins , such i mean as the scripture saith , those who commit them shall not inherit the kingdom of god. and as to these , st. james his rule is , whosoever shall keep the whole law , and yet offend in one point he is guilty of all . this seems to be very severe doctrine now under the covenant of mercy ; but we are to consider , that by one point he doth not mean any one act of sin ; for he saith afterwards , that in many things we offend all ; but he means any one sort , or kind of known sins . it was a common doctrine among the jews , that if a person were remarkable for keeping any one precept of the law , especially such as respected god and his worship , that would make amends for all the rest ; and this was the true reason , why the pharisees made long prayers , and yet devoured widows houses ; for they thought the duties of the first table would excuse the neglect of the other . but s. james saith , if a man keep all the rest of the law , and yet allows himself in the wilful breach of any one point , that implies such a contempt of the lawgiver , as renders him as obnoxious to divine justice , as if he had broken the whole . but here , a great difference is to be made between a single act committed through the power of temptation , against a contrary habit of vertue , and the habitual practice of known sins . it is possible for a sober man to be surprized into an act of intemperance , and to be overcome by the strength of wine ; but see the difference between such a one , and one that hath a habit of intemperance . the one goes on in his course , and hath lost the very sense of his sin , and the power of resisting it , and by degrees thinks he cannot live without it ; the other looks with indignation upon himself for his folly ; he repents presently , and resolves to avoid all occasions of being guilty of the like folly. and the same holds as to other sins ; if persons do love god and their souls , and be overcome with temptations , they presently repent with great sincerity , and return no more to the practice of it . ( . ) all acts of known sins presumptuously committed , are inconsistent with a constant and sincere endeavour to please god. where there is true friendship among men , it is not presently broke by every neglect , or sudden heat and passion ; but if a man sets himself with study and deliberation to affront another , that is a reasonable cause to break off any pretence of friendship , because such an action was not consistent with the love of a friend ; so it is with notorious sins committed wilfully and deliberately , notwithstanding all the motions to the contrary from god's honour , and justice and soveraignty ; and from the commands and threatnings of the gospel ; these are inconsistent with being in a state of friendship with god , which is all one with a state of salvation . not , that all who commit them , must immediately or necessarily be damned for them ; but tho' hereby they renounce any title to friendship with god , and all their hopes , as long as they continue in such a state without true and hearty repentance , are vain and groundless . and to entertain such hopes notwithstanding such sins , is properly the sin of presumption : which is confidence of anothers favour without any reason for it . ( . ) by these , we may now easily understand what those failings are , which the gospel allows for infirmities ; viz. such which are unavoidable by us in this imperfect state , notwithstanding a constant and sincere endeavour to please god by doing his will , god knoweth our frame and remembreth that we are but dust . not meer dust , for then , it were to no purpose to take care to save our souls ; but a mixture and composition of dull , heavy , lumpish , matter , and a sprightly , vigorous , active soul , which grows uneasie by being fettred and clogged , and distracted in its best and freest motions by it . the soul can hardly raise it self above this region of darkness and temptation , and attempt a flight towards the state of serenity , and happiness above , but it is pulled down by that weight which hangs upon it , and diverted by the various and restless impertinency of wandring imaginations . the most watchful mind cannot prevent all the disorders of a roving fancy in the midst of our more serious devotions . if we set our selves to fix our minds upon the best objects , and to prevent any wandring thoughts , the success seldom answers our design , and our thoughts are gone before we are aware of it . our minds are like a ship tossed upon the rowling waves ; but although we cannot hinder their unequal motion , we may steer their course to the port we aim at . but beside the extravagancies of imagination , our desires are hard to be kept within their due bounds ; there are many failings in our best duties great coldness and lukewarmness at least in our devotions , and yet too great proneness to think well of our selves for them , though god knows our omissions and neglects are so many , and those we do perform are so mean , and slight , that we have more cause to pray to god to forgive , than to hope he will accept our mean performances . but yet i do not say our best actions are sins ; for there is a real difference between actions imperfectly good , and morally evil ; in these , the substance is bad , but in the other , the acts themselves are good , but only lessen'd by the manner of doing them . and to these failings in our best actions , we must add the great unevenness in our tempers ; the inconstancy of our resolutions ; the uneasiness of our minds , under the troubles of life arising from want of due resignation , and submission to the will of god ; the many secret lurking passions within us , which are called the motions to sin ; and s. james styles , the lust which conceives and brings forth sin ; and st. paul , the law in our members warring against the law in our minds , which may give a great deal of disturbance where it cannot prevail . it is a sad thing to read the complaints of such persons , as st. gregory nazianzen , and st. jerom about the inward motions to sin , after an age spent in mortifications ; and when their bodies were wither'd with age , and broken with diseases and hard usage . but there is a greater instance than these of st. paul himself , who after all his perils by land and by sea , after all his watchfulness and fastings , and prayers , yet he was forced to keep under his body , and to bring it in subjection ; lest that by any means , saith he ' when i have preached to others , i my self become a cast-away . but still there is a great difference between pursuing the things of the spirit , with the reluctancy of the flesh , and pursuing the things of the flesh , with the reluctancy of the spirit ; the former shews only the motions of the flesh , which being subdued are but infirmities ; but the latter do not cease to be wilful sins , tho' there be inward struggling in the commission of them ; and the prevailing party ought to give the denomination to the person , whether carnal or spiritual . for , they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh , but they that are after the spirit , do mind the things of the spirit . and according to the great design and tenour of our lives and actions will be our character in this world , and recompence in another . nothing now remains , but to conclude with recommending to you the duties of watch●ulness and prayer . ( . ) watchfulness ; which is a constant care of our selves and actions . we walk as it were upon precipices , and therefore had need to look to our standing , when we see persons falling on every side . there is no force indeed in our case , because we are in a state of trial ; but we live in the midst of snares and temptations , and sins which do so easily beset us , that we cannot walk one step in our way without danger ; and therefore there is continual reason for watchfulness . but that is not enough : for , ( . ) we must add prayer to our watchfulness . otherwise , our presumption of our own strength may make us fall , god will have us owe our standing to his assistance , which he hath promised to give upon our earnest prayer to him for it . no duty more proper for us in this state of temptation ; no duty more effectual for obtaining suitable supplies for our present necessities ; where a man falls by temptation , st. chrysostom saith , it is because he knew not how to pray . for prayer , when duely performed , not only diverts , and raises and composes the mind , and so breaks the force of a present temptation ; but when a close siege is laid , it keeps the passage open for supplies from heaven , and brings down those supports which may enable us so to endure temptation , that when we are tried we may receive the crown of life , which god hath promised to them that love him . sermon xii . preached at hampton-court : before the king and queen . august the th . . acts xxvi . . why should it be thought a thing incredible with you , that god should raise the dead ? these words are part of the excellent defence , which s. paul made for himself before king agrippa , and the roman governour for embracing the christian religion . and if it were so desirable a thing to have heard s. paul preach , ( as one of the fathers of the church thought it , when he parallel'd it with seeing christ in the flesh ) it was especially at that time , when before so great an audience , and upon so solemn an occasion , he was to give an account of himself touching all the things , whereof he was accused of the jews , ver. . there had been a long and implacable hatred both in the rulers , and people of the jews against him , above any other apostle , having had greater advantages of education among them , and being more remarkably zealous for preaching up that doctrine , which himself had furiously opposed , and that upon a principle of conscience , as he saith , ver. . i verily thought with my self , that i ought to do many things contrary to the name of jesus of nazareth . and such a conscientious persecutor would not do that which he accounted the work of the lord , negligently , as he shews ver. , . but that the same person should on a sudden quit all his hopes and expectations among the jews ; and not only betake himself to a sect so much hated and despised , as that of christianity was ; but , to be so active in all places for the promoting it , was a thing which did both surprize and enrage them . insomuch , that when he came up to jerusalem , a popular tumult was soon raised against him , which had like to have cost him his life , if the roman officers , had not rescued him from their fury . but after he had made several defences of himself , to the people , to the council , to the roman governour , and found their rage and malice against him to continue still , when festus would have sent him to jerusalem to be tried , he appeals to coesar ; and during this appeal , when agrippa came to visit festus , hearing of this remarkable cause , and the vehement prosecution of it , he had a desire to hear what s. paul had to plead for himself . but before i come to the particular matter of his plea , in these words , there are things observable concerning him . . that although he knew he could not suffer in a better cause , and had a prospect of his sufferings before he went to jerusalem , and went thither with a resolution to undergo any thing for the sake of christ , yet he quitted no advantages which the law gave him . for , when the officer would have scourged him , he pleaded his freedom as a roman citizen ; and all such were exempted from scourging by the porcian and sempronian laws . and when he found the design was laid to carry him back to jerusalem , and there to make him a sacrifice to the rage of the jews ; he makes use of the privilege of the roman laws , and before sentence made his appeal to coesar . so little did he think it inconsistent with the christian doctrine , of suffering to make use of legal privileges for his own defence , against unjust violence . . that in all his defences he insisted on the resurrection as the main point . for although the true ground of the violent hatred and malice of the jews against him , was his constant and zealous preaching jesus and the resurrection , as he did at athens and other places ; yet those who persecute men for the sake of truth , always pretend some other reason for it ; and nothing is more common and plausible than that of breaking the laws . and the jews now thought they had this advantage against s. paul ; for they charged him with profaning the temple by carrying a gentile into it ; but the matter of fact was mistaken ; however , this served for a popular pretence against him , and that was all they sought for , ( malice working most mischief under a disguise . ) and this took presently , and spread so suddenly , that it is said , all the city was moved , and the people ran together , and they took paul and drew him out of the temple . when tertullus pleaded against him , he faintly urged his going about to profane the temple ; but the main of his accusation , was , that he was a ringleader of the sect of the nazarens ; therefore s. paul in his answer in short , saith to the other things objected , that they could not prove them ; but as to the way which they c●lled heresie , i. e. owning the doctrine of christ , he was so far from denying it , that he professed it before them all . and as he declared his faith freely , so he did his hope too . and have hope towards god , which they themselves also allow , that there shall be a resurrection of the dead , both of the just and unjust . this was the point s. paul reduced all to . touching the resurrection of the dead , i am called in question by you this day . and so here to agrippa , and now i stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of god unto our fathers ; unto which promise our twelve tribes instantly serving god day and night hope to come , for which hopes sake , king agrippa i am accused of the jews . and then immediately follow the words of the text , why should it be thought a thing incredible with you , that god should raise the dead ? wherein we have the strength of the apostles argument , to prove the truth of this mysterious doctrine of the resurrection ; although artificially couched by way● of insinuation and address . ( . ) it is not a vain thing to suppose it , because god had promised it . for no tradition of fathers , no conjectures of philosophers , no power of nature could be a sufficient foundation to build such an article of faith upon ; nothing short of the promise made of god. ( . ) it is not a new thing started by him , to disturb and perplex the minds of men ; it was a promise made to our fathers , i. e. it was involv'd and implied in the great promise of the messias , and the happiness to come by him ; which was not with respect to this world , but the world to come ; the full and compleat enjoyment whereof must suppose a resurrection of the dead . ( . ) it is not an unreasonable thing ; which appears by s. paul's putting it to them in such a manner , why should it be thought a thing incredible with you , that god should raise the dead ? wherein the apostle hath shew'd us the true method of asserting and defending the mysteries of the christian faith , viz. not to undertake to demonstrate things by natural reason , which are uncapable of it ; but first to prove them to be of divine revelation ; and then to shew that there is no objection from reason , which can make that revelation incredible . and this i shall endeavour to make out , as to the subject here mentioned ; and that ( . ) in general , with respect to the doctrine of the resurrection . ( . ) more particularly , ( . ) as to the resurrection of christ , ( . ) as to the resurrection of the dead at the great day . ( . ) in general ; as to the doctrine of the resurrection . it is no unreasonable method of proceeding with mankind , to suppose some general principles agreed on , before we undertake to prove particular doctrines . for when we go about to reason at all , we must suppose the foundations of certainty ; without which it is to no purpose to undertake to convince any man of any thing . when we prove that there is a god , we must suppose something that is without our selves , in the frame of this visible world ; and from the order of causes , the variety of effects , the nature of successive beings we justly infer , that it could not be always just as it is ; and therefore , it will be produced by a being superiour to it , whose power must be infinite , as giving being to that which had none , and disposing things in such a manner as we see them . for as nothing can be without a cause , so it is most unreasonable to suppose , that which once was not , should put it self into being ; or a blind and unactive cause should produce such admirable effects . an infinite power being then necessarily supposed , as to the production of the world , it cannot be unreasonable to apply it to a particular effect , although above the power of natural causes , if it be such a one as is agreeable to the infinite wisdom of god. it is an unreasonable thing , to suppose any absurd doctrine to be true , because god's power is infinite . for he doth not imploy his power , but in a way most agreeable to his wisdom ; and his wisdom is discovered in the suitableness of the end , and the clearness of divine revelation . it is as possible for god now to raise the dead , as at the great day ; but we have no reason to believe it , because it doth not now answer the great end of the resurrection , which is in order to an eternal state. therefore altho' there be an equal possibility in the thing , yet there is not an equal credibility ; because this doth by no means come up to the declared purpose of god's raising the dead ; which is of very great moment for mankind to believe and expect . if i could believe it possible , for the body of christ to be in ten thousand places at the same time , ( which i cannot ) yet if it were not to attain some great and spiritual end , which cannot be carried on another way , i have the same reason to think it incredible , as i have to believe that god will not imploy his infinite power , as often as a priest shall think fit , by repeating the words of consecration . and we never find in the whole history of scripture the infinite and miraculous power of god , tied to a certain form of words ; and that to no spiritual end , viz. either for the conviction , conversion , or sanctification of mankind ; to which other means more proper and agreeable are appointed . but in the case of the resurrection of the dead , our saviour hath sufficiently declared the end and design of it to be such , that we may justly suppose , that if god will imploy his infinite power , it would be for such a purpose : the hour is coming , saith christ , in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice , and shall come forth ; they that have done good unto the resurrection of life , and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation . can we imagine the power of god to be imployed for a more suitable end , to the design of his providence than this ? it is not to make them capable of acting over again all that folly , and vanity and vice , which they live in now ; it is not meerly to shew his power over all the scattered atoms of our bodies ; and that he can when he pleases fetch them of their secret repositories , and dispose and unite them so , as to make the same bodies ; it is not to convince then the unbelieving part of mankind , when they see that effected , which they before thought incredible ; for , they who will not believe now , upon the evidence which god hath given , so as to prepare themselves for that great day , shall then be forced both to believe and tremble . altho' then we do own , that without god's infinite power we look on the resurrection as impossible , yet this ought to be no disparagement to the doctrine , since the end of it is such , as doth so fully agree with the wisdom and design of providence . it 's true , the ancient fathers who discoursed much to the heathens , upon the argument of the resurrection , which they thought one of the most incredible parts of the christian doctrine , do make use of many comparisons and similitudes from natural causes and effects . but we are not to look on them as strict proofs , but as handsome illustrations , being designed to take off the scorn and derision , with which the heathens entertained the doctrine . thus they speak of a diurnal resurrection , viz. of the day dying into night , and being buried in darkness ; and in the morning springing out of its grave of obscurity and silence , with a fresh glory and splendour ; of an annual resurrection ; when the trees begin to have a new life in them ; and the precious liquor which shoots up into the withered body and branches , and so brings forth new leaves and flowers , and fruit. but after all , we know , that such a revolution of days and nights , and the several seasons of the year , depends upon certain and natural causes , viz. the diurnal and annual course of the sea. all that can be proved hence is , that things may not always remain in the same state of darkness and inactivity ; but that the same god , who hath appointed the times and seasons for other things , may if he please restore mankind , after a long night , and cold winter in the grave , to a state of life and vigour , at the day of resurrection . the story of the phoenix so often mentioned by the ancients , holds well enough against the authors of it ( for the christians had it from the heathens , ) viz. to prove there is no absurdity in believing the possibility , that life may be restored after the corruption of the body ; and that they had no reason to deride christianity for a doctrine , which themselves owned in their famous tradition of the phoenix . but when they argued strictly about this matter , they resolved it into the same infinite power of god , whereby he made the world. and according to the due order of our creed , we must first believe in god the father , almighty maker of heaven and earth , before we are to believe the resurrection of the body . and although the matters of faith be not capable of strict demonstrations ; yet we have this strong evidence to convince mankind of the credibility of it , viz. if they do believe that god made the world , and the bodies of mankind at first , they can have no reason to question his power to new make them ; if they do not , they must believe something far more absurd than the doctrine of the resurrection , viz. that this world should make it self , and that all things should fall into that admirable order they are in , without the power and management of an infinitely wise creatour . and setting aside the consideration of infinite power , such persons ought not to find fault with asserting the possibility of the resurrection ; for why may not the same particles of matter in a long tract of time hit together again , to make up the same body , as well , as such are at first supposed to have made up not only the visible world , but the wonderful fabrick of any single body of mankind ? why should it be more incredible , that a dead body should be raised out of its grave , than that the body of a man should spring out of the earth at first from a meer fermentation of matter ? so that the most atheistical persons have no reason to reject the doctrine of the resurrection , as a thing incredible to them . but yet there are some difficulties , which deserve to be cleared , to remove any temptations to infidelity ; and those relate , ( . ) to the quantity of the matter to make up such a number of bodies . ( . ) to the sorting and distribution of it for the making so many distinct bodies , as were before . ( . ) as to the quantity of matter ; not as to the main body of the earth ( out of the dust whereof man's body was framed at first ) but as to that which makes up the bodies of men as now they are . and i think one observation is sufficient to clear the difficulties which relate to this : that what passes away from us by insensible transpiration , was once as really a part of our body , as that is most visible and discernible in us now , or will be when our bodies corrupt in the grave , and are turned into dust. i need not run to the statick experiments to prove the vast quantity of matter belonging to our bodies , which passes continually away from us ; for there is one thing which sufficiently proves it , and no body can doubt of ; and that is ; we find all persons grow and shoot up till they come to such a stature ; and when they are attained to it , all the art and contrivance , and nourishment they can use , cannot make any addition to it . to what a prodigious height would mankind grow , if every seven years they should shoot up in proportion to the first seven ? and if those parts which receive nourishment did not spend themselves , all men , when they cease growing upwards must have a vast bulk . for they take in greater nourishment , than when they shot up so fast . but we find it otherwise in mankind , and therefore those which were once the real parts of the body do insensibly go off and spend themselves , and others come in their room . and those which were the substantial parts of the same body , are scattered up and down in our atmosphere , being wholly indiscernable by us , but yet they are not annihilated , nor lost to infinite wisdom ; who ranges and disposes those minute particles of our bodies in such order , that he can command them together , as he pleases , and so make up the same body again . but this carries me to the second difficulty . ( . ) as to the sorting and distribution of these dispersed particles , into so many distinct bodies again . it is but a mean representation of the possibility of this , which the chymists boast off , viz. that they can reduce some metalline bodies to their own shapes , and natural appearances from those wonderful disguises they can put them into . but from thence we may infer , that the infinitely wise god knows all the secret passages of nature , and every small part of a body , and can trace it through all its changes and shapes , and bring it back again to unite , with the other parts of the same body . the truth is , we are mighty strangers to the invisible kingdom of nature ; we make a shift to talk and reason a little about the frame and contexture of gross and visible bodies ; but for those innumerable parts which are out of the reach of our senses , we know they must be , and are somewhere , but in what order and variety we know not . but this we know , that the most minute parts we can discern by the help of glasses , although they appear rough and deformed to our naked eyes , as the moss which grows upon the earth , yet when it is more narrowly searched into by the help of glasses , is found to have in it admirable beauty and curiosity . and it is very observable that the more we look into the works of art , the less we admire them ; but the more we search into , what we account the most disorderly and confused parts of nature , even the least and most contemptible , the more we are surprized with admiration . which shews the infinite wisdom of the maker of all things , who hath all those things in due order , which seem to us impossible to be sorted or numbred . and since god hath declared it to be his design to raise the bodies of the dead , we have no reason to question , but that he disposes the several parts of them so , as none shall be either lost or mislaid . the psalmist speaks of a book in god's keeping , wherein all our members are written , which in continuance were fashioned , when as yet there was none of them . and he hath a book too , wherein all the scattered parts of the body are enter'd , which he knows exactly , and so can easily bring them together . we all know , that if the leaves of a book are scattered up and down thro' many hands , and carried to the most distant places ; if the author of it knows where they are , although they were bound up in other books , yet he can easily find out the several parts of it , and put them together again , so , as to make the same entire book which they were before . if therefore , god certainly knows and disposes the several parts of our bodies ( for although they are under many disguises to us , they are under none , to him ) he can much more easily gather them and joyn them together , as his wisdom and power is infinitely greater than ours . but suppose the parts of one body be turned into the substance of another , as in those who eat man's flesh , how is it possible there should be distinct bodies , when the substance of one goes into the substance of another ? this hath been thought by some a terrible objection , against the possibility of the resurrection ; but , according to the principles i have already laid down , it will admit of a clear and distinct answer . for , ( . ) the difficulty would appear much greater , if there were any such cannibals in the world , as lived wholly upon man's flesh. it cannot be denied , that there are instances of people so rude and barbarous , as to account it a piece of gallantry to devour their enemies , whom they have taken in battle ; and of others , who by extremity of famine have been driven to it . but such extraordinary instances have no force against a general doctrine ; unless it be proved to be impossible by them ; for , against extraordinary cases , extraordinary care may be set to make up the parts of those bodies . but , ( . ) it is but a very inconsiderable part of one body , which in such cases goes into the substance of another . that which may stop a ravenous appetite , may go but a little way towards increasing the substance of the body . how little of what we take into our stomachs , is united to the solid parts of the body . the flesh is dissolved into a spirituous liquor , which at last turns to a nourishment ; but after many passages and refinings in the several vessels for that purpose , the grosser part , and far greater quantity going off . so that according to the most received doctrine of nutrition , suppose the body of a man were eaten by cannibals , a very small part of it , would pass into the substance of their bodies . ( . ) suppose there were more , yet there cannot be so much as is already gone off from the body of the same man. if a man lives to thirty or forty years , his body hath undergone many new repairs in that time , and all the old materials were as true and real parts of the body , as the new ones ; and yet it is the same body , in the sense of all mankind . why should it not be then the same body at the day of resurrection , if some of the parts before consumed , be taken to make it up , as well as those very individual parts which a man had at the time of his death . suppose a corpulent man to fall into lingring diseases , or a gradual consumption of all the parts of his body , must this man at the day of resurrection , have no more as belonging to his body , than he had left upon him at the hour of his death ? would it not be the same body , if it were made up of the parts he had at the beginning of his consumption ? if it be , then the same reason will hold as to other times of his life ; and so this mighty objection from the cannibals devouring those parts of the body , which a man had at the time of his death can be of no force to overthrow the possibility of the resurrection . ( . ) having thus endeavour to clear the notion of the resurrection in general ; i come to the particular consideration of it , ( . ) with respect to the resurrection of christ ; which st. paul had here a regard to ; that being the chief point contested at that time between the jews and the apostles ; as the foundation both of the faith and hope of christians . for , saith st. paul , if christ be not risen , then is our preaching vain , and your faith is also vain . and st. peter , that they are begotten again to a lively hope through the resurrection of jesus christ from the dead . it was by this , saith st. paul , that he was declared to be the son of god with power : it was by this , saith st. peter , that god exalted him to be a prince and a saviour to give repentance to israel , and remission of sins . and therefore the apostles after the pouring out of the holy ghost upon them , insist chiefly upon this point ; and that not in distant places at first , where circumstances could not be known or examined ; but at jerusalem , while all things were fresh in their memories , and all matters of fact might be strictly examined . thus st. peter on the day of pentecost , standing up with the eleven said , ye men of judea , and all ye that dwell at jerusalem , hearken unto my words . and then follows his charge upon them for the death of christ ; jesus of nazareth a man approved of god , him have ye taken , and by wicked hands have crucified and slain . and what then ? whom god hath raised up . this might seem incredible to them at first hearing ; but st. peter goes on , and having proved it foretold by david he saith again , this jesus hath god raised up : but how doth this appear ? whereof , saith he , we all are witnesses , i. e. we that stand here before you , and are ready to undergoe any trial of our sincerity in the matter ; we do not tell you of witnesses that live at a great distance , but we whom you see and hear , testifie what we have seen and heard . if you are unsatisfied go and search the monument , where his body was laid ; examine the soldiers that were to guard it ; go to the council and let them search into the bottom of it ; here we stand and are ready to give our utmost testimony to the truth of it . not long after , as peter and john were going into the temple , and a great number of people were gathered together upon a miracle wrought by them , st. peter again tells them , that they had killed the prince of life , whom god hath raised up from the dead , whereof we are witnesses . this extremely galled the priests and sadduces present , as appears afterwards , and they seized upon them , and the next day a solemn council was called to examine them . but do they flinch from their testimony then ? no ; so far from it , that st. peter speaks more boldly to them ; ye rulers of the people , and elders of israel : be it known unto you all , and to all the people of israel , that by the name of jesus of nazareth , whom ye crucified whom god raised from the dead , even by him doth this man stand here before you whole . could any thing be spoken , with more freedom and plainness than this ? the person whom ye crucified god , hath raised from the dead ; and thereby hath demonstrated your wickedness and folly ; he whom ye slighted and killed , even now he works miracles among you ; for by him doth this man stand here before you whole . could any thing be more provoking to them than this ? why was not the matter at first examined . and if there had been any occasion to suspect them , never were men more concerned to lay open an imposture than these were . why were not other witnesses produced against them , and the whole contrivance then laid open to prevent any farther mischief ? but like guilty men they durst not go farther into it ; only they endeavoured to stop their mouths , and charged them not to speak at all , or teach in the name of jesus . but this would not do their business ; for they answered , they could not but speak the things which they had seen and heard . after this , we find them brought before the council again ; and then they severely rebuked them for breaking their command , to which the apostles answered with great temper and constancy , we ought to obey god rather than man , and immediately tell them the same things , the god of our fathers raised up jesus , whom ye slew and hanged on a tree . and we are his witnesses of these things . no wonder that it follows , that when they heard it , they were cut to the heart ; for nothing is so cutting as a true charge of guilt ; when persons cannot answer it , nothing can be more uneasie than to be told of it . and instead of examining the matter farther , they take gameliel's counsel , and let them alone . this i the rather insist upon , because the matters were then fresh , the persons were alive , who were most concerned to disprove them , and the apostles urged them before that council , which had not long before contrived and porcured the death of christ , and took great care to prevent the taking away of the body when it was in the monument . and now , why should it be thought by any , a thing incredible that god should raise the dead ? when there were such early , and such constant witnesses of it ; who offered the proof of it to all sorts , and wrought miracles to confirm their credibility . what can the most incredulous mind suggest towards the taking away the force of their testimony ? there are but two ways to do it , ( . ) to suppose them honest and well meaning men , who were deceived by their own fancies . ( . ) to suppose them , cunning and designing men , who went about to deceive the world , with what they did not believe themselves . ( . ) to suppose them deceived themselves . all that hath been suggested in this cavilling and sceptical age to this purpose , is that the scripture it self owns , that some good men have been deceived in the same manner ; as abraham and lot taking the angels for men , and believing that they did eat . but i will make it plain , that there was a vast disparity in the case . for , ( . ) here was a true and real body without dispute , for it is not denied that christ did really suffer on the cross , and was dead and buried . but what became of the true body of christ ? in the other cases , either there was no real body at all ; but the angels assumed such matter for the time , which had all the appearances of humane bodies in speaking , walking , and eating ; or if the bodies were real , yet we read nothing as to any such circumstances , of dying and being buried , as there are about christ's body . and there are some remarkable circumstances as to the body of christ , which ought to be observed . . that there was infallible proof , that he was really dead ; by the testimony st. john gives of his seeing the soldier pierce the pericardium with his launce ; which all agree to be a mortal and incurable wound , if there had been life before , and he adds it because there were then some , who denied that he really died on the cross. . that his body was laid in a new sepulchre , cut out of a rock ; which is taken notice of by three evangelists ; because it was not liable to any suspicion of practises by his disciples , as to the conveying away of the body by any other way , than by the mouth of the sepulchre . . that the mouth of the sepulchre was closed up with a stone ; which was sealed ▪ and had a watch set to guard it , so that here was all imaginable care taken to prevent any taking away the body out of the sepulchre . ( . ) the proofs as to the truth of christ's individual body , after the resurrection are quite of another nature from those of the angels appearing to eat with abraham and lot , for this was a sudden action of theirs , and not the main thing intended by them : it was only to introduce the message they had to declare ; but in the case of our saviour , the great business was to assure them of the truth of his resurrection . therefore it is said , that he shew'd himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs , being seen of them forty days . among these proofs st. john insists upon his shewing them , his hands and his side ; but this would not satisfie thomas , but he must thrust his hand into his side . could there be greater proof of the same body than this ? so that either we must give over all evidences and proof of the same body ; or we must allow that it was given in the case of christ's body . and nothing but obstinate infidelity can make any objection against the way of proof , supposing the matter of fact to be true , as the evangelists relate it . ( . ) but if that be not allow'd , then they must be charged with a design to deceive and abuse the world , to which i shall only say at present these two things : . that endless sufpicion is a very unreasonable thing ; where there is no foundation for it ; as none can be assigned as to the apostles , either as to this world or another ; since they declare no hopes of recompence hereafter , and no compensation to be expected here . . that some proof of sincerity must be allow'd ; and they offer'd the fairest ; and that is the true . reason why christ appeared to them , and not to his enemies . ( . ) the disciples themselves were asraid of being deceived this way ; and therefore could not be convinced , till by many infallible proofs as st. luke calls them , they were satisfied it was the real body of christ. if it had been only a sudden and transient appearance , there might have been some cause to have suspected it ; but this was so far from it , that he conversed among them forty days at several times ; he shew'd them his hands and his feet , his flesh and bones , and the very holes in his side which the spear had made . and what proof can be given of the truth of a body greater than this ? if they had pretended , that after his resurrection , his body was pres●nt , but after the manner of a spirit , i. e. after an invisible , impalpable , unintelligible manner , the world would have despised their testimony , and there had been no need to have said more for rejecting it , than that if body and spirit be to be known asunder , it must be by the different properties ; and therefore to confound them , is to confound our knowledge of them . ( . ) it was necessary that there should be such witnesses , who would attest what they saw ; which his enemies and murderers would not have done , if he had appeared to them . can we imagine , that the high priests and elders , and his other implacable enemies , who had blasphemously attributed his other miracles to the power of the devil , would immediately have been convinced upon the sight of his body after the resurrection ? no doubt , by the same reason they would have concluded it to have been an apparition of the devil . ( . ) there must be some proof of the honesty , and sincerity of mankind allow'd ; and the apostles gave the greatest that ever men did ; by their self-denial , unanimity , courage , patience , constancy and perseverance . they almost all laid down their laws to attest this truth , and all underwent great persecutions for it , when the discovery of the least fraud would not only have set them at ease , but gained them a plentiful reward . and therefore , why should it be thought a thing incredible with you , that god should raise his son from the dead ? ( . ) we must consider this , with respect to the general resurrection of the dead . what reason can we have to think , that incredible , when god hath already given such an evidence of the possibility of the thing by the resurrection of christ ? he that can raise up one body , can raise the rest , since the difficulty lies not in the number of bodies , but in the nature of the thing . some have ridiculously question'd , whether the surface of the earth would be large enough to hold all the bodies of mankind upon it at the day of resurrection . but an ingenious person hath demonstrated the folly of such an imagination . and it cannot be thought a needless exercise of divine power , when it is in order to the general judgment , and the resurrection of christ was intended as a pledge and assurance to the world , not only of that day to come , but that christ is appointed to be the judge . because he hath appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness , by that man whom he hath ordained , whereof he hath given assurance unto all men , in that he hath raised him from the dead . what remains then , but for us to think it our greatest concernment to live as becomes those , that believe we must not only die , but be raised from the dead , by the mighty power of god ; and that in order to our appearing before the judgment seat of christ , that we may receive according to to things done in the body , whether good or bad . what manner of persons ought we then to be in all boly conversation and godliness ? what fruit had ye then , saith st. paul , in those things whereof ye are now ashamed ? as though the bare reflection of a man 's own conscience were enough to make him sensible of the folly of sin. but what then is it to consider , that those things which will not bear a severe reflection at home , shall be laid open before the judgment seat of christ ? we are now to palliate and disguise , and conceal our follies , and weaknesses here , as much as we can from our selves , as well as others ; we would fain keep upon good terms with our selves , and use too many arts to blind and deceive our own consciences . but alas ! how vain and foolish a thing is it , for us to deceive our selves to our own destruction ? if the judge at the great day would judge just as we do , it would be the best argument in the world ●or deceiving our selves . but he will judge the world in righteousness . not according to the vain opinions men have of themselves , not according to the rash censures , or indiscreet flatteries of others , who cannot be able to judge of us , as we may do of our selves . and this is a matter of the greatest importance to us ; since god is pleased to leave it so much to our own judgment , that if we judge our selves , we shall not be judged . let us not therefore do it carelessly , partially and ineffectually ; but deal fait●fully , and sincerely with our selves ; searching for our most secret and beloved sins , and proceed against them in such a manner , as we shall wish we had done when we appear before the judgment seat of christ. think with your selves then , how shall we then abhor those sins of the body , which will expose both soul and body , to the eternal vengeance of god ? how shall we be ashamed to have yielded so much , and so easily to the inclinations of it , against the convictions of reason , the checks of conscience , and the plain commands of scripture ? and therefore , the thoughts of that day should have the most powerful influence on us , to keep our bodies in subjection to our minds , and to subdue the irregular appetites that come from them . for these bodies of ours now , are not so much companions , as traitors to our souls ; holding a correspondence with their greatest enemies , suggesting counsels which tend to their destruction ; and the temptations which arise from them , are so many and so bewitching , that without a constant care , our bodies may prove the ruin of our souls . and those who have the greatest command over them , have enough to do , to keep under the passions that arise from them ; which may grow troublesome when they cannot govern ; and like discontented persons be very uneasie when they are not gratified to their own desire . it is therefore , a great satisfaction to the minds of good men , to think , there is a day of resurrection coming , when their bodies shall no longer be an ●ncumbrance , or a temptation to their minds ; they shall neither hinder their happiness , nor draw them from it . thus all the dark temptations , and cloudy vapours , and disturbing passions , which arise from our bodies now , shall be scattered and dispersed ; and there shall be nothing but purity , serenity and clearness in that state. for , then the righteous shall shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their father ; when the glorious light within shall break through the passages of the body , and cause as great a splendour in it , as the sun it self would have within so narrow a compass . thus it is said of our saviour upon his transfiguration , that his ●ace did shine as the s●● ; and yet his body then , had the same qualities that our's have now . but after the resurrection , the glorified bodies shall be so purified and refined , by a divine spirit and power , that they shall become as spiritual as bodies can be ; i. e. without corruption and decay ; without weariness and pain ; without any of those infirmities , which make life so uneasie here . sometimes here the mind hath such a load upon it , that makes the body sink under its weight ; but there the perfect ease and tranquility of the mind , will give a new life and vigour to the body . here the most refined pleasures of life , are such which arise from a brisk and uniform motion of the animal spirits ; but then the spirit and joy of another world , will afford such delights as infinitely exceed our present imagination . such delights which shall be pure and constant , without interruption , and without end. for in that glorious presence of god , there is fulness of joy ; and at his right hand are pleasures for evermore . sermon xiii . preached at worcester august the th . . eccles. vii . . be not righteous overmuch , neither make thy self ●over wise : why shouldst thou destroy thy self ? be not righteous overmuch . can there be the least danger of that , in such a corrupt and degenerate age as we live in ? and if our preaching ought to be about the most seasonable duties , and the most dangerous sins ; one would think this should be , one of the last texts in scripture , we should have occasion to preach upon . but such an imagination arises from not understanding the scope and design of these words . for if righteousness were to be taken here , for that which solomon calls so , viz. the true fear of god , it would be hard to reconcile him to himself ; and these expressions with the main design of this book . for , after all the representations he hath made of the good and evil of this life , he concludes thus , let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter , fear god and keep his commandments , for this is the whole duty of man. and he gives a most weighty reason for it ; for god shall bring every work into judgment , with every secret thing , whether it be good , or whether it be evil . but then , how can any man fear god and keep his commandments too much ? and the wise man saith , the fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom ; and the knowledge of the holy is understanding . but how can any be over wise in the knowledge of god , and doing his will ? and the righteous man is generally taken by solomon , for a truly good man ; so ver. . there is a just man that perisheth in his righteousness , and there is a wicked man that prolongeth his life in his wickedness ; where the opposition is plain between a righteous and a wicked man. how then , can any one be righteous overmuch ? and , if not ; what is the meaning of these words ? some think that they are spoken in the person of an epicurean , who despised all religion , and thought it useful for nothing , but to make mens lives uncomfortable to them , and so to shorten their days ; and that the next verses are an answer to them , by shewing that wickedness doth much rather do it . there is a truth , and that very considerable in this sense , viz. that wickedness doth men more mischief as to this world , than the most strict and severe piety ; which , altho' it seems uneasie to the body , yet it is far from being so destructive to it , as wickedness is , and rather tends to support it , by taking off all such extravagancies which are so apt to shorten and destroy mens lives , by their procuring peace and satisfaction . but i cannot see how this comes in , as spoken by another person ; and the only reason of it is , the supposition , that taking them otherwise , they are not capable of a true and proper sense . but there may be several accounts given of them , if we take them as spoken by solomon , in his own name , ( . ) with respect to providence . ( . ) to religion . ( . ) to moral righteousness and wisdom . ( . ) they must seem to refer to the method of god's dealing with good and bad men in this world ; of which he spake , verse . be not too strict and severe in passing judgment on god's providence ; be not more righteous and wise than god is ; do not think you could govern the world better than he doth ; pry not too far into those mysteries , which are too deep for you ; why shouldst thou confound thy self ? so some interpret the latter words . ( . ) they may refer to religion ; but then they are not to be understood of what is truly and really so ; but of what passes in the world for it ; and men may esteem themselves very much for the sake of it . for although men cannot exceed in the main and fundamental duties of religion , in the belief and fear , and love of god ; yet they may , and often do mistake in the nature , and measures , and bounds of what they account duties of religion . ( . ) they may be taken in a moral sence for that righteousness which men are to shew towards each other , both in judgment and practise ; and for that wisdom , which mankind is capable of , as a moral vertue ; and in both these , there are extremes to be avoided ; and so they are not to be righteous overmuch ; nor to make themselves over wise . there are three things therefore to be spoken to , for clearing the sense of these words , ( . ) how we may exceed our bounds concerning the righteousness and wisdom of providence . ( . ) how , with respect to religion . ( . ) how , with respect to moral righteousness and wisdom . ( . ) with respect to providence : the great difficulty lies in what the wise man saith , afterwards , that the righteous and the wise , and their works are in the hand of god ; no man knoweth love or hatred by all that is before him . all things come alike to all ; there is one event to the righteous , and to the wicked , &c. now this seems hard to reconcile to the justice , and wisdom of providence . but we have sufficient reason to forbear censuring and prying too far , into these matters , from these considerations ; ( . ) god is not accountable to us for what he doth . the psalmist tells us , god's judgments are a great deep ; and therefore , it is a vain thing for us to pretend to go to the bottom of them . st. paul , who had great advantages above others crys out , how unsearchable are his judgments , and his ways past finding out ? we ought rather to admire , than to search into what he declares unsearchable ; and to sit down patient under our ignorance , when he saith , his ways are past● finding out . the wise and righteous god hath reasons and methods of acting far above our reach ; and we do but shew our own folly , when we pretend to give an account of them . ( . ) we have reason to be satisfied , that his providence is righteous and wise , although we cannot comprehend it . for , as abraham said in this case , shall not the judge of all the earth do right ? he who is the great and wise god , who loveth righteousness and hateth iniquity , cannot act otherwise , but in a way agreeable to infinite wisdom and righteousness . if these were not the perfections of his nature , he could not be god ; and if they be , he can never do any thing repugnant to them . and as long as we own him to be god , we must allow his wisdom and righteousness in all he doth . ( . ) he hath declared , that he will give satisfaction to all mankind , concerning the secrets of his providence . but not in this world ; and therefore , we ought with patience to wait , for the day of the revelation of the righteous judgment of god. it is then great boldness and presumption in us to censure his proceedings , before that day comes . and so i pass to the second sense . ( . ) these words may be taken with respect to religion ; and here it is necessary to shew , in what sense this is to be understood . for , those who have no love to religion , think a little too much , and are glad to find such expressions as these to justifie their gross neglect and contempt of it . but to prevent mistakes , i shall endeavour these things : to fhew , that if religion be rightly understood , there is no fear of men's doing too much in it . ( . ) that by reason of mens mistakes and false notions about it , they may easily exceed their due bounds . ( . ) that if religion be rightly understood , there is no danger of exceeding the bounds of it . that i may speak more distinctly ; we are to consider religion in general , as comprehending all the duties we owe to god ; which are of a different nature . ( . ) there are some duties which are fundamental and necessary in our minds , without which we can have no religion ; such are the owning god for our creator , and governour , and depending upon him for our happiness . ( . ) some are external and occasional ; which being positive duties , are capable of different obligations , according to the circumstances of persons . and according to these we may lay down two rules . ( . ) none can do too much , as to inward and fundamental duties of religion . ( . ) none can do too much , as to the external and positive duties , while they keep to that obligation , which god hath laid upon them , or they have justly laid on themselves . ( . ) as to internal and fundamental duties ; as owning god and our dependence upon him for our happiness ; as being the supreme good , and therefore only capable of making us happy . and there is so great a necessity of this in order to our welfare , that we cannot exceed in it ; since we are his creatures , and are utterly unable to make our selves in the least happy without him . and if we take this dependence upon god in all the parts of it , we shall find we cannot go beyond our duty in it . for , it implies these things , ( . ) a clear and strong conviction of our minds , that god alone can make us happy . and this we can never be too much convinced of ; yea all the arguments in the world are few enough , to settle our minds about it . which appears by the great pains , the wise man takes in this book to convince mankind , that there is nothing but vanity and vexation of spirit to be found here . this he delivers upon his own experience , after all the searches , and pain , and care , and contrivances he had used about it . and after that , he gives an account of the several conditions of life , and shews that there is no satisfaction to be had in any of them ; and he puts the utmost can be supposed , that a man enjoy a long and prosperous life , yet that is so inconsiderable to the future state , that it bears no proportion , and therefore we ought to look above , and beyond this state , if we would be happy . ( . ) a due sense of god upon our minds ; which he calls remembring our creator . for , although there be sufficient evidence of his being , yet we are too apt to forget him , there being so many other things to put him out of our minds ; and therefore , at all times we need to be called upon , to remember our creator ; but especially in the time of youth , when the vanities and pleasures , and temptations of the world , have the greatest relish with us ; and when the things of religion are most apt to be despised ; yet even then we cannot be too much put in mind of our duty , with respect to god. because an early sense of god will prevent a deal of evil ; and lay a foundation for the greatest peace of our minds , and the best conduct of our peace . ( . ) a constant regard to god , in the course of our actions . not meerly , that we ought to be concerned for his honour , on whom we depend ; but we must consider , what he hath commanded , and what he hath forbidden , and upon what terms : for , god ought to prescribe to us the conditions of our happiness ; and it is a vain thing to expect it in any other way . therefore we can never be too solicitous about such things , which our eternal happiness depends upon . because a miscarriage herein is the most fatal . we cannot be too much concerned about the sincerity of our repentance , and faith , and obedience to christ , because these are the plain and necessary conditions of our salvation ; and we cannot watch our selves too much , against the temptations to sin ; which is the greatest enemy to our happiness , and yet we are in continual danger of falling into it , and of continuing it . and when the danger is so great , so near , so constant , we can never exceed in the watchfulness and care of our selves . ( . ) inward love and affection to god ; without which there can be no happiness in him . for that must suppose union and mutual satisfaction . but how can we possibly exceed in this , when god deserves so much more than we can give him ? and he requires no less from us , than our whole heart , and soul , and strength ? which doth not only imply integrity , but vigour in our affection towards him . and to content our selves with a mean degree of love , is to shew , that we neither know , nor esteem him , as we ought ; for the more we known him , we must love him the more . so that in the great and fundamental duties of religion we can never do too much . ( . ) patient submission to the will of god , under all the accidents of life . the utmost care we can use , cannot alter the common methods of providence ; and here all things happen alike to all . therefore we cannot too much wean our selves from the uncertain comforts of this life ; nor too much resign our selves up to god's disposal . we have always passions enough within us to keep us in exercise ; and trials enough without us to put us upon subduing those passions , which are too apt upon every cross and disappointment to fly out , and to grow uneasie . here is therefore work enough for us to do ; and is like to be so , as long as our bodies and souls are together in this state. and he that thinks he can do too much in this work , never yet understood what the government of his passions meant . ( . ) a sincere endeavour to please god , in the duties of his worship and service . for , since god hath appointed such duties , no man can pretend to depend upon him for his happiness , who is not sincerely willing to please him , in doing what he hath appointed for his service ; and that in such a manner , as himself hath required . under the law , god was very punctual and particular in his institutions ; and that as to all the circumstances of them , and then he expected to be obeyed according to his ow● appointments , and added a severe sanction to his law ; cursed is every one , that continueth not in every thing written in the law to do it . and he required great diligence and care in the keeping all his commandments ; so that then they could not be righteous over much , with respect to the law of god ; for all their care was little enough to perform it . under the gospel , god that hath taken away the rigorous dispensation , and instead thereof , he requires a reasonable service ; which doth not only consist in the acts of our minds ; but in the most reasonable duties of religion ; in prayers and praises , and sacraments ; which ought to be performed by us , with that diligence and devotion , as requires our greatest care ; and in that , we cannot exceed . ( . ) and this leads me to consider the rules and measures we are to go by in external and positive duties . there are three sorts of measures to be observed , ( . ) of strict obligation ? and that depends upon a clear and express declaration of god's will ; that it is a duty incumbent on us to perform ; as creatures , or as christians ; as prayer for one , and celebrating and receiving the lords supper for the other . as to these , such rules of conscience are to be observed , ( . ) they must be done so , as to be consistent with other duties of piety , charity , justice , regard to health , families and publick good. ( . ) they must be done so , as to shew our fear , and our love of god in the doing them ; i. e. so , as not to live in an habitual neglect of them ; nor to perform them so , as if we had no regard to him that appointed them . ( . ) there are other measures of zeal and devotion ; which exceed the strict obligation of conscience . i do not now speak of an accidental obligation of conscience by particular engagements of oaths , or promises , or vows ; but of what is free and chosen . as to which these rules may be observed . ( . ) the more persons are freed from incumbrances of the world , the more time they are to set apart for the worship , and service of god. ( . ) the more love any have to god and religion , the more frequent they will be in the voluntary service of god , and the greater delight they will take in it . and thus much may serve to clear the measures of true religion . ( . ) but there are many mistakes , and false notions of religion in the world ; and by reason of these , men are very prone to exceed their due bounds . and here i shall set down some of the most common and popular , which are most apt to deceive . ( . ) that god is pleased with such kind of service , as doth most please our own fancies . this is the foundation of what the scripture calls will-worship ; i. e. when men are not contented with what god hath appointed ; but set up their own fancies , and imagine that god will be as much pleased with them , as with any thing himself hath required . such as the worshipping of angels , and abstaining from meats there mentioned . if these had been any necessary parts of religion , no doubt christ and his apostles would have recommended them to the christian church ; but they are far from it ; and st. paul very much dislikes the introducing such things , although they had some plausible pretences for them ; which he calls a shew of wisdom . but it came at last to this , that such a severity in diet , such humility in making use of the mediation of angels , seemed very agreeable to the fancies of men ; and the distance between god and us . and from hence they came to the invocation of saints , as appears from them ; for their fancies still ran upon the manner of earthly courts , and thought things were managed in heaven accordingly . from hence came all the gross superstitions , the frequent addresses , the tedious pilgrimages in the church of rome only to procure the favours of some particular saints , to intercede with christ , that he might intercede with god for them . whereas the scripture shews us the plain and direct way of making our applications to the father , by the mediation and intercession of his son , whom he hath appointed the mediator between him and us . so gain , in the worship of images , as directly forbidden , as adultery and murder are in the ten commandments ; yet because men shew respect to one another , in keeping and kissing their pictures , therefore god cannot be displeased with worshipping images , tho' against his commandments , because they intend it for his honour . this among others , because the heats of fancy , and variety of expressions , is pleasing to themselves in prayer , they conclude it is so to god too . whereas the wise man takes notice of the multiplying words in prayer , as one of the vanities of mankind . be not rash with thy mouth , and let not they heart be hasty to utter any thing before god ; for god is in heaven , and thou upon earth ; therefore let thy words be few . some place too much of their religion in a zeal for or against some external ceremonies of worship , and both think what they do , is very pleasing to god. whereas at the bottom , there may be nothing but temper and prejudice , and education in both sorts . some have a natural averseness , confirmed by their manner of breeding , to all kind of ceremonies ; and others as great an inclination to them . but still god must be pleased with what they are . as the warlike people of old worshipped their god's in armour ; and the rest according to the peculiar dresses and habits of their countrey . ( . ) that god is pleased with what doth most cross and displease our inclinations . this is another fountain of superstition ; and seems contrary to the former ; only they think god is more averse to our inclinations , than to our fancies . it is true , our inclinations are too much bent to what is morally evil ; and that god abhors . but that is not the thing i am speaking of ; but of such inclinations which have no real evil in them ; but are meerly natural , as to a freedom from pain and uneasiness . and the point is whether god be pleased with seeing us , to vex and torment our selves ; and whether that be any acceptable service to god ? as to deny our selves natural rest , to avoid eating a thing because our appetite is pleased with it ; to kneel upon bare stones ; to cut our flesh ; to whip our bodies , &c. for they are all of the same kind . can we think that god is pleased meerly with the torment we put our selves to ? what conceptions must we have of god then ? i do not deny , but reason teaches us to moderate our appetites , and not to indanger our sensual inclinations to rest and ease too much , because of ill consequences . but there is a great deal of difference , between a moral government of our selves , and making those things a part of religion , and imagining that god is pleased with our meer doing them . which was the principle , which carried the idolaters of old to sacrifice their children to molochi because god would be best pleased with that , which was the most against their natural inclination to do . ( . ) that god is more pleased with duties of worship than with moral duties . from hence they think to make amends for the miscarriages of their lives by diligence in religious duties . this was the foundation of pharisaism , i. e. of hypocrisie , among the jews . their principle was , that god valued nothing so much as his own immediate service ; and therefore , they took great care about that , and what related to it ; but for justice and mercy , and charity they seemed to have very little regard to them ; and thought god was so pleased with their zeal for his service , that he would easily pass by other faults . and no doubt , one of their great quarrels against our saviour , was delivering the contrary doctrine , that god preferr'd mercy before sacrifice ; and that men ought to be reconciled to their brother , before they offer'd their gift at the altar . but still men are prone to go on in the same way , and to hope that some more than ordinary devotion will make amends for their sins ; and then it is no wonder to see such over devout at some times , who are very loose and careless at others . ( . ) that god takes more notice of the duties we perform , than of our manner of doing them . as though he rather number'd than weighed them . and no wonder , if such be more frequent and diligent than others in them ; they think they can never exceed therein , though they neglect some necessary duties , as to themselves or families the mean time . the service of god ought not to be neglected ; for that argues a contempt of religion ; but neither ought we to neglect the duties of our calling , for that argues a mis-understanding religion ; as though we did not serve god when we did our duties therein . it is no hard matter to allot the several proportions of time to both , if men consider their several obligations . for , as the pretence of worldly business ought not to excuse men in their neglect of god's worship ; so neither ought the pretence of god's service , to justifie men in the neglect of their callings . god did not require of the jews to be constant in his temple from all parts ; for then they could never have subsisted ; but at the solemn feasts he strictly required it , and every week , where-ever they were , they were to keep holy the sabbath day . persons that were more at leisure , and had greater conveniences spent more time in their devotion than others . thus anna departed not from the temple , but served god therein night and day . but this was not a matter of strict obligation to others , although it shewed an excellent temper of mind in her . but in case of such frequent returns of devotion , there must be great care least that abate the fervency , and what was first taken up for devotion come to be a meer custom , and we flatter our selves that god will accept the bare duties without the life and spirit of them . ( . ) these words may be taken in a moral sense for that righteousness , which respects other men ; and that is twofold . ( . ) of judgment . ( . ) of practice . ( . ) of judgment , concerning the actions and designs of others ; i. e. be not too ready to censure , and condemn them ; why shouldst thou destroy thy self . i. e. why shouldst thou bring the same severity upon thy self , which thou usest towards others ; according to that of our saviour , judge not that ye be not judged , &c. two things to be spoken to , for clearing this point ; ( . ) how men are too righteous in this matter ? ( . ) what mischief this brings upon them . ( . ) how men are righteous overmuch in this matter ? ( . ) not in passing a true judgment upon the actions of others . for to do otherwise proceeds from want of judgment , and righteousness . of judgment , if we do not see the difference of good and evil : of righteousness , if we will not . as far as we are concerned , we are not to suffer our passions to blind our judgments ; not to think that to be a vertue in one , which we should account a vice in another ; nor to call that an infirmity in one , which we should judge to be wilfulness , and presumption in another . ( . ) not in keeping our selves from being deceived by the false pretences of others . it is possible for men to make use of this very saying , to abuse the credulity of well meaning persons ; and to account the discerning of spirits , as far as it lies within our reach , to be assuming too great a power of judging . but our saviour thought it not inconsistent with his precept of not judging , to expose the hypocrisie of the scribes and pharisees ; but then , he certainly knew it to be hypocrisie in them . and as far , as we are certain by the rules which he hath given us , we may do the same thing . but wherein then lies being righteous overmuch ? ( . ) in not making allowance for the common infirmities of mankind ; which do not only consist in the imperfections of good actions , but in such failings , which human nature is subject to in this state ; notwithstanding our greatest care to avoid them . if persons will be severe upon others , for such things as these are , and condemn all religion as meer shew and hypocrisie in them on that account ; this is being righteous overmuch . for , they do not make the same allowance which god doth ; and without which it were a vain thing to hope for salvation . for , if god should be so exact to mark what is done amiss by us , who can stand before him ? and if we expect such an allowance to be made to our selves , what reason have we not to make it to others ? at least so far , as not to condemn them for want of sincerity in the main , because of some such infirmities . how can we righteously judge them , whom god will not judge ? we must in judging others make allowance for the weakness of judgment and strength of passion , which we find often accompanied with a real tenderness of conscience . i confess it is very hard to believe , where we see a great appearance of spiritual pride , a neglect of moral duties , censoriousness towards others , impatience of contradiction , &c. that there is a real tenderness of conscience joyned with them . but yet some have stronger convictions of some duties than they have of others , and if they did act against their consciences in those matters , they should resist that which they account the clearest light they have ; and in so doing they must cast off the immediate guidance of their consciences , which might have very bad effects , as to the force and power of concience in other things . i am afraid many do not impartially weigh and consider things as they ought ; but when , or where did the generality of mankind do so ? he thinks such scruples are weak , and ought to be laid aside ; but they say , they cannot overcome them ; and they have prayed and searched , and used the best means and cannot be satisfied ; and what can they now do ? conscience is really a nice and tender thing , and ought not to be handled roughly and severely ; considering how unaccountable sometimes to others , the real scruples of some consciences are . although conscience be a man's judgment in order to practice , yet there may be a great strictness of conscience , where there is no strictness of judgment ; and conscience in some cases is more nice for want of judgment . but what then ? must we condemn all those who labour under that distemper ? and that you count want of judgment in him , he may look on as want of sincerity in you . we have been so long censuring and condemning each other for such things , that god seems by his wife providence , to bring the plea of scruples of conscience round , that we may learn more tenderness to each other . by which we see that some may really scruple that which others wonder at , and that mens consciences are not to be measur'd by the same light ; for that is a matter of admiration to one , which is of scruple to another . the best use we can make of this , is , to pity the infirmities of mankind , and of those most , who are under the conduct of a mis-guided conscience , because whatever the action be their design and intention is honest and good . ( . ) in putting the worst construction upon mens actions , which is directly contrary to that charity st. paul so much commends ; for that not only bears the worst , and hopes for the best , but where a thing is capable of being made better by a favourable sense , it is ready to give it . now , there are many things men do , which are accounted good or evil , according to the intention of the doer of them . i do not say , that alters the nature of the action in it self ; for what god commands is good , and what he forbids is evil , whatever mens intentions be ; but although a good intention cannot make a bad action good ; yet a bad intention may make a good action evil ; not in it self , but to him that doth it . and so there are two ways men may exceed in judging ; ( . ) in making no abatement in an evil action as to the person , for the goodness of his intention . for , altho ' the action be not good by it , yet it is so much less evil ; and in doubtful cases it takes much from the guilt , although not where the command is plain ; as in the case of saul . ( . ) in charging persons with a bad intention in a good action , where there is no plain evidence ; for then , it is but suspicion , and an uncharitable judgment . our saviour might justly charge the pharisees with this , as to their alms and prayers , because he knew their hearts . they laid them open enough to others , by their asfectation ; and where that is gross and notorious , it were weakness , and not charity to judge otherwise . but where we have no ground for it , to judge men to act upon bad principles , is being righteous overmuch , or rather being unrighteous and uncharitable . ( . ) in judging mens condition towards god ; from some particular actions , although contrary to the general course of them . think with your selves , what strange and mistaken judgments you should have past upon david and ahab ; if you had been privy to the adultery , and murder of the one , and had seen the humiliation of the other . if you had seen ahab in his mortification , when he fasted and put on sackcloth and humbled himself , you would have thought him a saint ; for he seemed to have been in good earnest for the time . and if you had judged of david by those particular actions , you must have concluded him a very bad man ; but both these conclusions had been false ; because taken up upon too slight , and narrow an inspection . the same case had been as to st. peter's denial , and the repentance of judas . we must not form our judgments of others , by single and sudden actions , which persons may fall into by surprize , or sudden accidents , and conclude all the rest to be like ; but we are to suspend our thoughts for the present , and to weigh and compare the course of a man's actions together . for , so god will judge mankind ; and so ought we to judge of one another . ( . ) in judging of mens spiritual estate from outward afflictions , which befall them . thus job's friends were righteous overmuch , when they charged him so deep with hypocrisie , because his calamities were extraordinary . it is natural for such , who believe providence to interpret god's actions towards men , are either as marks of his approbation or displeasure . but god hath no where declared so much , and we have no reason to pass such a judgment on men ; since the wise man saith , no man can know love or hatred , by the things which are before him . and there is a just man who perisheth in his righteousness , and a wicked man , that prolongeth his life in his wickedness . if such had seen a just man suffering to such a degree , they must have inferr'd , that he was guilty of some secret wickedness , which made god deal so hardly with him ; but the wise man saith , this was to be righteous overmuch ; for god is not to act according to our measures . he knows what is best , and fittest for men to undergo ; and he never acts so , as they shall have cause to complain at last . there is a just man to whom it happeneth , according to the work of the wicked ; and there is a wicked man , unto whom it happeneth , according to the work of the righteous . therefore it is very unrighteous for us to pronounce any wicked , meerly because they undergo greater sufferings , and more pinching calamities than others . there is no judging a child to be out of his fathers love , because he corrects him for his faults ; as long as there is hopes of amendment he will do it ; and when there is none , he lets him alone to take his course , but he is then more displeased than ever . ( . ) in judging too easily concerning the faults and mis-carriages of others . men shew their severity to others , and partiality to themselves this way ; they think themselves hardly dealt with , to be censur'd upon vain and idle reports ; and yet they are too apt to do the same thing by others . there is a justice , we ought to shew to the reputation of others ; which lies here in doing as we think reasonable , as others should do by us . some cannot think so well of themselves , unless they think amiss of others ; and such are very prying into the faults of other men , and are pleased with hearing them ; because hereby they bring them on the same level with themselves . what a satisfaction doth it seem to profane men , to find out the miscarriages of such , who pretend to religion ? but are they the better , or religion the worse for them ? to be a scandal to religion , is a great aggravation of a fault ; but still religion is not to blame ; for it was the want of it , which made them commit those faults ; but where there is a desire to hear the miscarriages of other men , and a pleasure in relating them ; no doubt there is an ill temper of mind , from whence this proceeds . ( . ) in not using the same measures , in judging the good and the evil of other men. the one they presently and easily believe ; but the other they make many difficulties about . if any evil action be reported of a neighbour , that is presently entertained and spread abroad to his mighty disadvantage ; although it be at first taken up from a malicious , or ill grounded report . but if a good action be told , they find out all possible ways , either to lessen the credit of the reporter , or the nature of the action , or to find out circumstances to exasperate it . so much malice and ill will doth appear , in the ordinary considerations of mankind , and the judgments they pass upon one another . ( . ) in pronouncing concerning mens final state in another world. which is wholly out of our reach and capacity . for that depends upon such things , which it is impossible for us to know , as ( . ) the nature and aggravation of mens sins ; which depend upon circumstances we cannot know , but god doth . what measure of knowledge they had ; what temptations they were under ; what means of resistance ; what degrees of wilfulness and presumption there were in them . ( . ) the sincerity of their repentance for those sins . we know , it may be , the sins they have committed ; but we cannot know , how much they have smarted for those sins in secret ; what agonies of mind they have undergone for them ; how earnestly they have pray'd for forgiveness , and strength against them ; what an inward abhorrence and detestation they have of them ; what a real change hath been made in their souls , as to what they have loved and delighted in . ( . ) what failings are consistent with a general sincerity . we know a perfect obedience is impossible ; therefore we must allow some , or else we must send all to hell. but then , how to fix the nature and number of such failings , so , as to say , so far he may fail , and yet be sincere is impossible for us to do ; since we must take in those circumstances , which it is impossible for us to know . ( . ) what things are absolutely necessary to salvation , of particular persons . bold and presumptuous men are very positive and daring in such cases ; but such as are modest and humble dare not go farther than god hath declared . some unreasonably restrain the possibility of salvation , to the bounds of their own communion ; but i should sooner question the possibility of their salvation , who thus censure and condemn the rest of mankind . which is not consistent with that charity , which the scripture makes more necessary to salvation , than any one communion . ( . ) the bounds of god's mercy . the usual terms of it are expressed in scripture : but even that hath acquainted us , that god hath not tied up himself from some extraordinary instances of it . as in the case of the thief on the cross. this is no ground for incouragement to any to put off their repentance , but it is a sufficient ground to keep us from censuring any , as to their final condition in another world. ( . ) the mischief they bring upon themselves , by being thus severe towards others . ( . ) this provokes the malice of others against them ; who are sure to be revenged , if possible , on such who are so ready to condemn others ; and to lay open their faults , thereby to expose their weakness or hypocrisie . whereas candour and fairness , makes men willing to use the same towards those who use it to others . ( . ) it provokes god to be severe to such as shew no mercy towards others . and so our saviour understands it : matth. . , . nothing we have so much cause to dread , as the severity of god's judgment upon us ; and nothing should make us more willing to shew kindness and good-will to others , than to consider that god will have a regard to it in his dealing with us . especially , if it appear in our actions , as well as our words . which is the next thing to be considered , ( . ) we may be righteous overmuch in the moral practice of righteousness towards others . ( . ) that men may exceed herein . ( . ) that this proves mischievous to themselves . ( . ) that men may exceed in righteousness in their dealings with other men. in the matter of right and wrong , between party and party , men may be righteous overmuch , viz. when men take all the advantages which the law gives them against others , without consideration of their condition and circumstances . it hath been long since observed , that summum jus summa injuria ; the reason whereof is , that the law being made for a whole community cannot be so framed , but it may pinch hard upon some particular persons if it be severely pursued ; whose circumstan●es are such , as the law never intended . the foundations of justice , saith cicero , are that no innocent person suffer , and that the common good be maintained . where the circumstances of persons deserve pity ; it is not justice , but inhumanity to pursue their own right to the ruin of others . no certain rules can be set down , because circumstances vary so much , but it doth not become a good man , to insist upon a bare right to the utter ruin of another ; if they are such as deserve commiseration , i. e. poor , helpless and willing to do what they are able for satisfaction . aristotle saith , that a good man doth not pursue the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the exactness of law ; but abates of his right , although he is sure he hath the law of his side . is it then unbecoming a good man to pursue his right ? no. but he ought so to manage it , as to shew he hath a regard to equity as well as justice . but there are several ways of mens being righteous overmuch . ( . ) when they mind justice without mercy . the truth is , such persons are not so much as moral heathens ; so far are they from being good christians . which so earnestly recommends charity and kindness to our greatest enemies . so that even our justice ought to have a mixture of mercy in it . ( . ) when they make the law the instrument of their revenge ; when they are glad they have taken their enemies at such an advantage . we may here apply st. paul's words , we know the law is good , if a man use it lawfully . but there may be a very unlawful use of it , when it is made to serve mens passions against each other . ( . ) when they seek for no accommodation of their differences in a fair and amicable manner . the necessities of some cases are such , that they are fit to be referr'd to such wise arbitration as the law provides ; but if men are restless and litigious , who love differences , and delight in vexing their neighbours with law suits , it is certain they have not the spirit and temper of christians , who are to live peaceably with all men. ( . ) how this proves so mischievous to men. ( . ) it makes such mens lives very unquiet , and troublesome to themselves and others . for it is impossible for some to disturb others , but they must expect a retaliation . many men would have their passions lie more quiet , if they were not rouzed up and awakened by others ; but when they are , they know not how to lay them asleep again . and so they exasperate and provoke each other , and take away all the peace and contentment of one anothers lives . and what care and solitude , what vexation and trouble doth attend those , who are thus righteous overmuch , that they will always be endeavouring to right themselves , till they bring the greatest mischief upon themselves ? ( . ) it provokes god to shorten their days out of pity to the rest of the world. for the greatest blessings of this world , are promised to the meek and patient , and charitable , and merciful persons ; and therefore , others have no reason to expect any other but a curse upon them . to conclude all by way of advice , as to the general sense of these words ; ( . ) not to think every thing too much , in religion and vertue , because some are here said to be righteous overmuch . the far greatest part of mankind err the other way . they care not how little of religion they have ; and they desire no more than just to carry them to heaven . which shews , they neither know , what heaven or religion means ; for then they would be convinced , their minds could never be too much prepared for it . ( . ) to understand the difference between true wisdom , and righteousness , and that which is not . for , upon that depends the just measure of them both . we cannot be too wise in that which is real wisdom , but we may be too easily conceited of our wisdom , and cry up that for righteousness which is not , but a sort of busie impertinency about little matters in religion , and making a great noise about them , which signifie very little as to true wisdom . ( . ) be not too curious in searching , nor too hard in censuring the f●ults of others . it is a very unpleasant curiosity to find out the faults of others ; like that of some creatures , which delight in dunghils ; and those who consider the frailties of human nature , will not be too severe upon the miscarriages of others . ( . ) live as easily with others as you can , for that tends much to the sweetning and prolonging life . it is not possible to live without injuries ; take as little notice of them as may be ; and that may be the smartest revenge . if you are forced to right your selves , do it with that gentleness and fairness , that they may see you delight not in it . ( . ) avoid a needless scrupulosity of conscience , as a thing which keeps our minds always uneasie . a scrupulous man is always in the dark , and therefore full of fears and melancholy apprehensions ; he that gives way to scruples , is the greatest enemy to his own peace . but then let not the fear of scrupulosity make you afraid , of keeping a good conscience ; for that is the wisest , and best , and safest companion in the world. finis . books written by the right reverend father in god , edw. l. bishop of worcester , and sold by h. mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul 's church-yard . a rational account of the grounds of the protestant religion ; being a vindication of the lord archbishop of canterbury's relation of a conference , &c. from the pretended answer of t. c. d . edit . fol. origines britannicae , or the antiquities of the british churches , with a preface concerning some pretended antiquities relating to britain , in vindication of the bishop of st. asaph . folio . irenicum , a weapon-salve for the churches wounds . quarto . origines sacrae , or a rational account of the grounds of christian faith , as to the truth and divine authority of the script and the matters therein contained . to . a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it . octavo . an answer to several late treatises occasioned by a book entituled , a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it ; part i. octavo . a second discourse in vindication of the protestant grounds of faith , against the pretence of infallibility in the roman church , in answer to the guide in controversie , by r. h. protestancy without principles , and reason and religion ; or the certain rule of faith , by e. w. with a particular enquiry into the miracles of the roman church . octavo an answer to mr. cressy's epistle apologetical to a person of honour , touching his vindication of dr stillingfleet . octavo . a defence of the discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , in answer to a book entituled , catholicks no idolaters : octavo . several conferences between a roman priest , a fanatick chaplain , and a divine of the church of england ; being a full answer to the late dialogues of t. g octavo . the unreasonableness of separation , or and impartialaccount of the history , nature and pleas of the present separation from the communion of the church of england . quarto . a ●ourse concerning the doctrine of christ's satisfaction ; or the true reasons of his sufferings ; with an answer to the socinian objections . to which is added , a sermon concerning the mysteries of the christian faith , preached april . . with a preface concerning the true state of the controversie about christ's satisfaction . the d . edit . octavo . sermons preached upon several occasions , in volumes . octavo . a discourse in vindication of the doctrine of the trinity : with an answer to the late socinian objections against it , from scripture , antiquity and reason . and a preface concerning the different explications of the trinity , and the tendency of the present socinian controversie . the d . edit . octavo . an answer to mr. lock 's letter concerning some passages relating to his essay of humane understanding , mentioned in the late discourse in vindication of the trininity . with a postscript in answer to some reflections made on that treatise in a late socinian pamphlet . an answer to mr. lock 's second letter , wherein his notion of ideas is proved to be inconsistent with it self , and with the articles of the christian faith. to . ecclesiastical cases , relating to the duties and rights of the parochial clergy , stated and resolved according to the principles of conscience and law. the rule of faith : or an answer to the treatise of mr. j. s. entituled , sure-footing , &c. by john tillotson , d. d. to which is adjoyned , a reply to mr. s's d. appendix , &c. by e●● . stillingfleet , d. d. a letter to mr. g giving a true account of a late conference at the d. of p's . a second letter to mr. g in answer to two letters lately published concerning the conference at the d. of p's . a discourse concerning the nature and grounds of the certainty of faith , in answer to j. s. his catholick letters . the effigies of the right reverend father in god , edward lord bishop of worcester , engraven on a coopper-plate by robert white . price d. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e malac. . . heb. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . aelian . var. hist. l. . c. . isa. . , . matth. . , , . heb. . . . . p● . . . jam. . . exod. . , . ps. . . is. . . v. . . lact. de ira dei , c. . exod. . . isa. . . jon. . . psal. . . ps. . . tit. . . v. . . jam. . . ps. . . rom. . . eccl. . . exod. . . john . , . matth. . . harv . exerc . , , . jud. v. . jam. . . prov. . . notes for div a -e cor. . . col. . . col. . . john . . rom. . . , . cor. . . . gal. . . . ch. . v. . . . v. . ruffin . iil symbol . joh. . . iren. l. . c. . euseb. l. . c. . eph. . , , . jude v. . heb. . . john . . cor. . cal. . . . acts . . . gal. . . . . euseb. hi●● l. . c. . iren. l. . c. , . tertul. de praescript . haer. john . , , . euseb. hist. l. . c. ● luke . . iren. l. . c. . aug. de consens . evang . l. . ● . . l. . c. . euseb. hist. l. . c. . chrys. hom. in matth ; opus imperfect . in mat. in prologo . euseb. l. ● c. . euseb l. . c. . epiphan . haer. . athanas. in synopst . p. . tertul. c. marc. l. . c. . hieron . de script . eccles . ambros. in luc. . . epip● . haer. . theophyt . in luc. maldonat . com. in evang prol . joh. . , hierom. prooem . in matth. de script . eccles. epiph. haer. . chr●sost . ho●● . . in matth. e●seb . l. . c. . act. . . ● cor. . . gal. . . . . cor. . . eph. . . . . phil. . . . . ● thess. . . ● . tim. . ● , . tim. . . . tim. . , . thess. . . bell. de verbo . l. . c. . aug. de peccat . meritis . l. . ● . . a in symbolo fidei & spei nostrae , quod ab apostolis traditum , non scribitur in charta & atramento , sed in tabuli● cordis carnalibus . hieron . ad pammachium advers . errores joh. hierosol . b nec ut eadem verba symboli teneatis , ullo modo debetis scribere , sed audiendo perdiscere ; nec cum didiceritis scribere , sed memoriâ semper tenere & recolere . august . de diversis serm. . c idcirco denique haec non scrib● chartalis & membranis , sed requiri credentium cordibus tradiderunt , ut certum esset haec neminem ex lectione , quae interdum pervenire etiam ad infideles solet , sed ex apostolorum traditione didicisse . ruffinus in symbol . d tertul . de praescrip . c. , , , . de virgin. vol. c. . advers . praxeam c. . august . serm. . . . . retract . l. . c. . enchirid. de fide , n. . de symbol . ad catech. ruffin . in prooem . c theod. l. . c. . d cyril . catech. . e theodo . l. . c. . f cassian de fucaru . l. . c. , . g hieron . ad pammach . h ruffin . in symbol . p. . v. usser . de sym. p. , . i epiph. haeres . . k cyrill . catech. . l aug. de symb. l. . petr. chrysol . serin . , &c. m epiph. ancorat . n august . de fide & symbolo . et de symbolo serm. . o desymbolo ad catech . c. . deut. . . . . . king. . . . , . joh. . . . . matth. ▪ . . heb. . . acts . . gal. . . joh. . . luk. . . gal. . . tit. . . tim. . . tit. . . . notes for div a -e ● pet. . , , . c. . v. . tim. . . luke . . . matth. . . v. . pet. . . gal. . . although babylon were very much exhausted , by the neighbourhood of seleucioe first , and afterward of ctesiphon ; yet i see no reason to conclude that babylon was not then capable of having a church in it , when s. peter wrote this epistle . for josephus , lib. . owns , that there was in babylon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the time when ●yrcanus was sent thither ; and out of such a multitude of jews a church might easily be gathered . the calamities which befell the jews of those parts afterwards rather reach to the country than the city of babylon . and when such numbers of jews are allowed to have been after them in ctesiphon , nearda and nisibis , which were all cities in those parts , i see no cause to question that there were great numbers of jews at that time in babylon ; since even in trajan's time , they are confessed to have been very numerous in mesopotamia strabo , lib. . saith , that a great part of babylon was deserted in his time , and so it might well be , and leave room enough for a christian church to be there notwithstanding . so that no reason appears sufficient to me to take babylon in any other sense , than for the city generally known by that name , without flying to any mystical sense , or a strong-place in egypt bearing that name ; these being less probability of a church in a garrison , as strabo describes it , than in the remainders of so great a city . pet. . . luke . . acts . . pet. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nicom . l. . c. . inter caetera mala , hoc quoque habet stultitia proprium , semper incipie vivere . sen. ep. . gal. . , , . cor. . , . eph. . , . joh. . . ● joh. . . pet. . , , . . . . . pet. . . pet. . . pet. . ● . . . . , . . , . . . rom. . . notes for div a -e ch. . . ch. . . ch. . . v. . v. , , , . v. . v. . ch. . . ch. . . ch. . . ch. . , . ch. . . acts . . rom. . . cor. . . rom. . . cor. . . matth. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . nat. ausc. l. . c. . n. . gal. . . luk. . . sam. . . act. . . mar. . . cor. . . ●om . . . notes for div a -e tim . . ch. . . ch. . . vers. . vers. . vers. . ch. . . ch. . . ch. . , ● , , . vers. . tim. . . tim. . . tim. . . acts . . act. . . gal. . . matth. . . luk. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . arist. de virt. & vitiis . itaque viros fortes , magnanimos , eosdémque bonos & simplices , veritatis amicos , miniméque fallaces esse volumus . off. l. . nicom . l. . c. . antonin . l. . §. . l. . §. . off . l. . l. . mor. l. . c. . ● , . mic. . . phil. . . aristot. mor. l. . c. . aug. . q. . epist. . tertull ad scap. antonin . l. . sect. . arrian . l. . c. . mor. l. . c. . joh. . . eph. . . phil. . . gal. . . prov. . . notes for div a -e vers. . joh. . . ch. . v. . phil. . , . act. . . joh. . , . . . . . joh. . . v. . joh. . . v. . v. , . v. . matth. . . matth. . . v. . mark . . v. . matth. . . luk. . ● . joh. . . john . , , &c. rom. . . rom. . . col. . . heb. . . . tim. . . discourse of the word mystery , &c. p. . observations on dr. wallis ●is four letters , p. . psal. . . revel . . . c. . v. . bisterfield . c. grell . p. . petav. de trinit . l. . c . sect. . de consol . l. . s joh. . . socin . prael . c. . cajetan in . q. . art . . s. joh. . . cor. . socin . ad eutrop. p. . c. wick . c. . catech. racov. p. . cor ●● . gal. . . smiglec . de divin . verb. incarn . nat. p. . nova monstra , &c. p. . joh. . . v. . joh. . . v. . rom. . . john . . ch . . v. . luk. . . joh. . . matth. . , . mark . , . luke . . pet. . . . . cor . . rom. . cor. . . heb. . . notes for div a -e matt. . . luke . . v. . mat● . . . james . . matth. . . v. . v. . v. . luke . . de irâ , l. . c. . tasc . . . exod. . . levit. . . deut. . . gr. de j b. & p. l. , . . luk. . , . luk. . . . . j●m . . . matt. . . matt. . . matt. . , . matt. . . luk. . . luk. . . job . psal . tim. . . luk. . , . v. . matt. . . v. . matt. . ▪ . luk. . . phil. . . matth. . . matth. . . mat. . . luk. . . ma●● . . notes for div a -e rom. . , . ● . . . ● . . ● . . . ver. . joh. . . joh. . . . . rom. . , . cor. . . john . , . rom. . , . . . . . ps. . . gal. . . . chrysost. in gal. . . aug. c. julian . l. . c. . gen. . . . . job . , , . ps. . . deut. . , . numb . , , . . . . deut. . . . . num. . . ps. . . num. . . ver . . sam. . . chr. . . exod. . . . . num. . . . . . sam. . . sam. . . chr. . . deut. . 〈◊〉 . . . ● sam . . est autem unus dies ●inè & e● praeceptis tuis actus peccanti immortalitati anteserendus . cic●r . tusc , qu. l. . c. , rom. . . . , . . . . cor. . , . epicurus hermacho . v. ciceron . de finibus , l. . c. . heb. . . . notes for div a -e ch . . . ch . . . . . ch . . . . rom. ● . . ver . . psal. . . . . joh. . . notes for div a -e ● . ● . . . gal. . . ●h . . . omissio non est nisi boni debiti ad quod aliquis te●etur , aqu. . . . . & . . . . reginald . prox. l. . c. . n. . . . q. . . victor . rel. . navarr , man. c. . n. . tolet. sum. l. . c. . azor. t. . l. . c. . gr. de val●● to. . disp. . qu. . t● . . dis. . qu. . psal. . . deut. . . . . james . . gen. . . gal. . . lord bacon impetus phil. mat. . . thess. . . matt. . . hos. . . matt. . . . . notes for div a -e ch. . , . luk. . , . ver. . matth. . . joh. . . ver. . ver. . ver. . ver. . ver. . . . jam. . . rom. . ● . heb. . . with respect to another world . gal. . . gal. . , . . eph. . . . gal. . . tit. . . heb. . . pet. . . rom. . ● . matt. . . matt. . , . joh. . , . . . matt. . . ver. ● . ● ●th . l. . c. . ethic. . . c. . exod. . . psal. . , . neh. . , . numb . . . more nevoc . p. . c. . heb. . . psal. . . . . luk. ● . ● . luk. . . jam. . . jam. . luk. . . psal. . . jam. . ● . rom. . . greg. nazian decal . vit . bar. a. . n. . cor. . . rom. . . matt. . , , , . mark . . joh. . . jam. . . pet. . . joh. . ● , . . jam. . . notes for div a -e . , . . . . . . . . , . . , . . , . acts . . ● . . . ▪ . . . . . . . . . joh. . , . clem. ad cor. p. . tertul. de res. c. . ambr. her. l. . cyril . catal. . &c. herod . l. . sen. ep. . plin. l : . c. . tacit. an. l. . athen. p. . tertul. ap. c. . de res. c. . justin. apol . . lact. . c. . ambr. de fide res. c. . prudent . insyr . l. . aug. de civ . dei , l. . c. . . c. . . in psal. . . psal . . cor. . . pet. . . rom. . . act. . . act. . 〈◊〉 . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . b. s. ep. . . gen. . . . . joh. . . matth. . . mark . . luk. . . matth. . . act. . . joh. . . . luk. . . act. . . luk. . . joh. . , . sir w. petty 's essay in political arithmetick . postscript . act . . cor. . pet. . . rom. . . act. . . cor. . . matt. . . matt. . . cor. . . ●sal . . 〈◊〉 . notes for div a -e . , . prov. . . . , . psal. . . rom. . . gen. . . rom. . . eccle● . . . . . . . ● . deut. . . deut. . . gal. . . deut. . . colos. . . eccles. . . luk. . . matth. . , . cor. . , , &c. kin. . . ch. . , , . . . off. l. . ●th . l. . . tim. . ● a sermon preached before the king, march , / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached before the king, march , / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed by robert white for henry mortlock ..., london : . marginal notes. reproduction of original in duke university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual 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marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- o.t. -- proverbs xiv, -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. sin -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached before the king , march . / . by edward stillingfleet , b. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . printed by his majesties especial command . london , printed by robert white , for henry mortlock , and are to be sold at his shop at the sign of the white hart in westminster hall. . proverbs . . fools make a mock at sin. when god by his infinite wisdom had contrived , and by a power and goodness , as infinite as his wisdom , had perfected the creation of the visible world , there seemed to be nothing wanting to the glory of it , but a creature endued with reason and understanding , which might comprehend the design of his wisdom , enjoy the benefits of his goodness , and employ it self in the celebration of his power . the beings purely intellectuall were too highly raised by their own order and creation , to be the lords of this inferiour world : and those whose natures could reach no higher than the objects of sense , were not capable of discovering the glorious perfections of the great creator : and therefore could not be the fit instruments of his praise and service . but a conjunction of both these together was thought necessary to make up such a sort of beings , which might at once command this lower world , and be the servants of him who made it . not as though this great fabrick of the world were meerly raised for man to please his fancy in the contemplation of it , or to exercise his dominion over the creatures designed for his use and service ; but that by frequent reflections on the author of his being , and the effects of his power and goodness , he might be brought to the greatest love and admiration of him . so that the most naturall part of religion lyes in the gratefull acknowledgments we owe to that excellent and supreme being , who hath shewed so particular a kindness to man in the creation and government of the world . which was so great and unexpressible , that some have thought , it was not so much pride and affectation of a greater height , as envy at the felicity and power of mankind , which was the occasion of the fall of the apostate spirits . but whether or no the state of man were occasion enough for the envy of the spirits above ; we are sure the kindness of heaven was so great in it , as could not but lay an indispensable obligation on all mankind to perpetuall gratitude and obedience . for it is as easie to suppose , that affronts and injuries are the most suitable returns for the most obliging favours ; that the first duty of a child should be to destroy his parents ; that to be thankful for kindnesses received , were to commit the unpardonable sin ; as that man should receive his being and all the blessings which attend it from god , and not be bound to the most universall obedience to him . and as the reflection on the author of his being , leads him to the acknowledgement of his duty towards god , so the consideration of the design of it , will more easily acquaint him with the nature of that duty which is expected from him . had man been designed only to act a short part here in the world , all that had been required of him , had been only to express his thankfulness to god for his being , and the comforts of it ; the using all means for the due preservation of himself ; the doing nothing beneath the dignity of humane nature , nothing injurious to those who were of the same nature with himself ; but since he is designed for greater and nobler ends , and his present state , is but a state of tryall , in order to future happiness and misery ; the reason of good and evill is not to be taken meerly from his present , but from the respect , which things have to that eternall state he is designed for . from whence it follows , that the differences of good and evill are rooted in the nature of our beings , and are the necessary consequents of our relation to god , and each other , and our expectations of a future life . and therefore according to these measures , the estimation of men in the world hath been while they did preserve any veneration for god or themselves . wisdom and folly was not measured so much by the subtilty and curiosity of mens speculations , by the finess of their thoughts , or the depth of their designs , as by their endeavours to uphold the dignity of mankind ; by their piety and devotion towards god ; by their sobriety and due government of their actions ; by the equality and justice , the charity and kindness of their dealings to one another . wisdom was but another name for goodness , and folly for sin : then it was a mans glory to be religious ; and to be profane and vitious , was to be base and mean : then there were no gods worshipped because they were bad , nor any men disgraced because they were good . then there were no temples erected to the meanest passions of humane nature , nor men became idolaters to their own infirmities . then to be betrayed into sin , was accounted weakness ; to contrive it , dishonour and baseness ; to justifie and defend it , infamy and reproach ; to make a mock at it , a mark of the highest folly and incorrigibleness . so the wise man in the words of the text assures us , that they are fools , and those of the highest rank and degree of folly , who make a mock at sin . it is well for us in the age we live in , that we have the judgement of former ages to appeal to , and of those persons in them whose reputation for wisdom is yet unquestionable . for otherwise we might be born down by that spightfull enemy to all vertue and goodness , the impudence of such , who it is hard to say whether they shew it more in committing sin , or in defending it . men whose manners are so bad , that scarce any thing can be imagined worse , unless it be the wit they use to excuse them with . such who take the measure of mans perfections downwards , and the nearer they approach to beasts , the more they think themselves to act like men . no wonder then , if among such as these the differences of good and evil be laughed at , and no sin be thought so unpardonable , as the thinking that there is any at all . nay the utmost they will allow in the description of sin , is , that it is a thing that some live by declaiming against , and others cannot live without the practice of . but is the chair of scorners at last proved the only chair of infallibility ? must those be the standard of mankind , who seem to have little left of humane nature , but laughter and the shape of men ? do they think that we are all become such fools to take scoffs for arguments , and raillery for demonstrations ? he knows nothing at all of goodness , that knows not that it is much more easie to laugh at it , than to practise it ; and it were worth the while to make a mock at sin , if the doing so would make nothing of it . but the nature of things does not vary with the humours of men ; sin becomes not at all the less dangerous because men have so little wit to think it so ; nor religion the less excellent and advantageous to the world , because the greatest enemies of that are so much to themselves too , that they have learnt to despise it . but although that scorns to be defended by such weapons whereby her enemies assault her , ( nothing more unbecoming the majesty of religion , than to make it self cheap , by making others laugh ) yet if they can but obtain so much of themselves to attend with patience to what is serious , there may be yet a possibility of perswading them , that no fools are so great as those who laugh themselves into misery , and none so certainly do so , as those who make a mock at sin . but if our authority be too mean and contemptible to be relyed on , in a matter wherein they think us so much concern'd ( and so i hope we are to prevent the ruine of mens souls ) we dare with confidence appeal to the generall sense of mankind in the matter of our present debate . let them name but any one person in all the monuments of former ages , to whom but the bare suspicion of vice was not a diminution to an esteem that might otherwise have been great in the world . and if the bare suspicion would do so much among even the more rude and barbarous nations , what would open and professed wickedness do among the more knowing and civill ? humane nature retains an abhorrency of sin , so far that it is impossible for men to have the same esteem of those who are given over to all manner of wickedness , though otherwise of great sharpness of wit , and of such whose naturall abilities may not exceed the other , but yet do govern their actions according to the strict rules of religion and vertue . and the generall sense of mankind cannot be by any thing better known , than by an universall consent of men , as to the wayes whereby they express their value and esteem of others . what they all agree on as the best character of a person worthy to be loved and honoured , we may well think is the most agreeable to humane nature ; and what is universally thought a disparagement to the highest accomplishments , ought to be looked on as the disgrace and imperfection of it . did ever any yet , though never so wicked and profane themselvs , seriously commend another person for his rudeness and debaucheries ? was any mans lust or intemperance ever reckoned among the titles of his honour ? who ever yet raised trophies to his vices , or thought to perpetuate his memory by the glory of them ? where was it ever known , that sobriety and temperance , justice and charity were thought the marks of reproach and infamy ? who ever suffered in their reputation by being thought to be really good ? nay , it is so far from it , that the most wicked persons do inwardly esteem them whether they will or no. by which we see , that even in this lapsed and degenerate condition of mankind , it is only goodness which gains true honour and esteem , and nothing doth so effectually blast a growing reputation , as wickedness and vice . but if it be thus with the generality of men , who were never yet thought to have too much partiality towards goodness , we may much more easily find it among those , who have had a better ground for the reputation of their wisdom , than the meer vogue of the people . he who was pronounced by the heathen oracle , to be the wisest among the greeks , was the person who brought down philosophy from the obscure and uncertain speculations of nature , and in all his discourses recommended vertue as the truest wisdom . and he among the iews , whose soul was as large as the sand on the sea shore , whose wisdom outwent that of all the persons of his own or future ages , writes a book on purpose to perswade men , that there is no reall wisdom , but to fear god and keep his commandments : that sin is the greatest folly , and the meaner apprehensions men have of it , the more they are infatuated by the temptations to it . but as there are degrees of sinning , so there are of folly in it . some sin with a blushing countenance , and a trembling conscience ; they sin , but yet they are afraid to sin : they sin , but in the act of it they condemn themselves for what they do ; they sin , but with confusion in their faces , with horrour in their minds , and an earthquake in their consciences : though the condition of such persons be dangerous , and their unquietness shews the greatness of their folly , yet because these twitches of conscience argue there are some quick touches left of the sense of good and evil , their case is not desperate , nor their condition incurable : but there are others who despise these as the reproach of the school of wickedness , because they are not yet attained to those heights of impiety which they glory in : such who have subdued their consciences much easier than others do their sins ; who have almost worn out all the impressions of the work of the law written in their hearts ; who not only make a practice , but a boast of sin , and defend it with as much greediness as they commit it ; these are the men , whose folly is manifest to all men but themselves ; and surely since these are the men , whom solomon in the words of the text describes , ( . ) by their character , as fools , and , ( . ) by the instance of their folly , in making a mock at sin ; we may have not only the liberty to use , but to prove , that name of reproach to be due unto them ; and ( . ) to shew the reasonablenesse of fastning it upon them , because they make a mock at sin . but before i come more closely to pursue that , it will be necessary to consider another sense of these words caused by the ambiguity of the hebrew verb , which sometimes signifies to deride and scorn , sometimes to plead for , and excuse a thing with all the arts of rhetorick ( thence the word for rhetorick is derived from the verb here used ) according to which sense , it notes all the plausible pretences and subtle extenuations which wicked men use in defence of their evil actions . for as if men intended to make some recompence for the folly they betray in the acts of sin by the wit they employ in the pleading for them , there is nothing they shew more industry and care in , than in endeavouring to baffle their own consciences , and please themselves in their folly , till death and eternall flames awaken them . that we may not therefore seem to beg all wicked men for fools , till we have heard what they have to say for themselves , we shall first examine the reasonableness of their fairest plea's for their evil actions , before we make good the particular impeachment of folly against them . there are three wayes especially whereby they seek to justifie themselves , by laying the blame of all their evil actions , either upon the fatall necessity of all events , the unavoidable frailty of humane nature , or the impossibility of keeping the laws of heaven . but that none of these will serve to excuse them from the just imputation of folly , is our present business to discover . . the fatall necessity of all humane actions . those who upon any other terms are unwilling enough to own either god or providence , yet if they can but make these serve their turn to justifie their sins by , their quarrell against them then ceaseth , as being much more willing that god should bear the blame of their sins , than themselvs . but yet the very fears of a deity suggest so many dreadfull thoughts of his majesty , iustice , and power , that they are very well contented to have him wholly left out ; and then to suppose man to be a meer engine , that is necessarily moved by such a train and series of causes , that there is no action how bad soever that is done by him , which it was any more possible for him not to have done , than for the fire not to burn when it pleases . if this be true , farewell all the differences of good and evil in mens actions ; farewell all expectations of future rewards and punishments ; religion becomes but a meer name , and righteousness but an art to live by . but it is with this , as it is with the other arguments they use against religion ; there is something within , which checks and controlls them in what they say : and that inward remorse of conscience , which such men sometimes feel in their evil actions ( when conscience is forced to recoil by the foulness of them ) doth effectually confute their own hypothesis ; and makes them not believe those actions to be necessary , for which they suffer so much in themselves because they knew they did them freely . or is it as fatall for man to believe himself free when he is not so , as it is for him to act when his choice is determined ? but what series of causes is there that doth so necessarily impose upon the common sense of all mankind ? it seems very strange , that man should have so little sense of his own interest to be still necessitated to the worst of actions , and yet torment himself with the thoughts that he did them freely . or is it only the freedome of action , and not of choice , that men have an experience of within themselves ? but surely , however men may subtilly dispute of the difference between these two , no man would ever believe himself to be free in what he does , unless he first thought himself to be so , in what he determines ? and if we suppose man to have as great a freedom of choice in all his evil actions ( which is the liberty we are now speaking of ) as any persons assert or contend for , we cannot suppose that he should have a greater experience of it , than now he hath . so that either it is impossible for man to know when his choice is free ; or if it may be known , the constant experience of all evil men in the world will testifie , that it is so now . is it possible for the most intemperate person to believe , when the most pleasing temptations to lust or gluttony are presented to him , that no considerations whatever could restrain his appetite , or keep him from the satisfaction of his brutish inclinations ? will not the sudden , though groundless , apprehension of poyson in the cup , make the drunkards heart to ake , and hand to tremble , and to let fall the supposed fatall mixture in the midst of all his jollity and excess ? how often have persons who have designed the greatest mischief to the lives and fortunes of others , when all opportunities have fallen out beyond their expectation for accomplishing their ends , through some sudden thoughts which have surprized them , almost in the very act , been diverted from their intended purposes ? did ever any yet imagine that the charms of beauty and allurements of lust were so irresistible , that if men knew before hand they should surely dye in the embraces of an adulterous bed , they could not yet withstand the temptations to it ? if then some considerations , which are quite of another nature from all the objects which are presented to him , may quite hinder the force and efficacy of them upon the mind of man ( as we see in ioseph's resisting the importunate caresses of his mistris ) what reason can there be to imagine that man is a meer machine moved only as outward objects determine him ? and if the considerations of present fear and danger may divert men from the practice of evil actions , shall not the far more weighty considerations of eternity have , at least an equall , if not a far greater power and efficacy upon mens minds , to keep them from everlasting misery ? is an immortall soul and the eternal happiness of it so mean a thing in our esteem and value , that we will not deny our selves those sensuall pleasures for the sake of that , which we would renounce for some present danger ? are the flames of another world such painted fires , that they deserve only to be laughed at , and not seriously considered by us ? fond man ! art thou only free to ruine and destroy thy self ? a strange fatality indeed , when nothing but what is mean and triviall shall determine thy choice ! when matters of the highest moment are therefore less regarded , because they are such . hast thou no other plea for thy self , but that thy sins were fatal ? thou hast no reason then to believe but that thy misery shall be so too . but if thou ownest a god and providence , assure thy self that justice and righteousness are not meer titles of his honour , but the reall properties of his nature . and he who hath appointed the rewards and punishments of the great day , will then call the sinner to account , not only for all his other sins , but for offering to lay the imputation of them upon himself . for if the greatest abhorrency of mens evil wayes , the rigour of his laws , the severity of his judgements , the exactness of his justice , the greatest care used to reclaim men from their sins , and the highest assurance , that he is not the cause of their ruine , may be any vindication of the holiness of god now , and his justice in the life to come ; we have the greatest reason to lay the blame of all our evil actions upon our selves , as to attribute the glory of all our good unto himself alone . . the frailty of humane nature : those who find themselves to be free enough to do their souls mischief , and yet continue still in the doing of it , find nothing more ready to plead for themselves , than the unhappiness of mans composition , and the degenerate state of the world . if god had designed ( they are ready to say ) that man should lead a life free from sin , why did he confine the soul of man to a body so apt to taint and pollute it ? but who art thou o man , that thus findest fault with thy maker ? was not his kindness the greater , in not only giving thee a soul capable of enjoying himself , but such an habitation for it here , which by the curiosity of its contrivance , the number and usefulness of its parts , might be a perpetual and domestick testimony of the wisdom of its maker ? was not such a conjunction of soul and body necessary for the exercise of that dominion which god designed man for , over the creatures endued only with sense and motion ? and if we suppose this life to be a state of tryall in order to a better , ( as in all reason we ought to do ) what can be imagined more proper to such a state , than to have the soul constantly employed in the government of those sensuall inclinations which arise from the body ? in the doing of which , the proper exercise of that vertue consists , which is made the condition of future happiness . had it not been for such a composition , the difference could never have been seen between good and bad men ; i. e. between those who maintain the empire of reason , assisted by the motives of religion , over all the inferiour faculties , and such who dethrone their souls and make them slaves to every lust that will command them . and if men willingly subject themselves to that which they were born to rule , they have none to blame but themselves for it . neither is it any excuse at all , that this , through the degeneracy of mankind , is grown the common custome of the world ; unless that be in it self so great a tyrant , that there is no resisting the power of it . if god had commanded us to comply with all the customs of the world , and at the same time to be sober , righteous , and good , we must have lived in another age than we live in , to have excused these two commands from a palpable contradiction . but instead of this , he hath forewarned us of the danger of being led aside by the soft , and easie compliances of the world ; and if we are sensible of our own infirmities , ( as we have all reason to be ) he hath offered us the assistance of his grace & of that spirit of his , which is greater than the spirit that is in the world . he hath promised us those weapons whereby we may withstand the torrent of wickedness in the world , with far greater success than the old gauls were wont to do the inundations of their countrey , whose custome was to be drowned with their arms in their hands . but it will be the greater folly in us to be so , because we have not only sufficient means of resistance , but we understand the danger before hand . if we once forsake the strict rules of religion and goodness , and are ready to yield our selves to whatever hath got retainers enough to set up for a custome , we may know where we begin , but we cannot where we shall make an end . for every fresh assault makes the breach wider , at which more enemies may come in still ; so that when we find our selves under their power , we are contented for our own ease to call them friends . which is the unhappy consequence of too easie yielding at first , till at last the greatest slavery to sin be accounted but good humour , and a gentle compliance with the fashions of the world . so that when men are perswaded , either through fear , or too great easiness to disuse that strict eye which they had before to their actions , it oft times falls out with them , as it did with the souldier in the roman history , who blinded his eye so long in the time of the civil wars , that when he would have used it again , he could not . and when custom hath by degrees taken away the sense of sin from their consciences , they grow as hard as herodotus tells us the heads of the old egyptians were by the heat of the sun , that nothing would ever enter them . if men will with nebuchadnezzar herd with the beasts of the field , no wonder if their reason departs from them , and by degrees they grow as savage as the company they keep . so powerfull a thing is custome to debauch mankind , and so easily do the greatest vices by degrees obtain admission into the souls of men , under pretence of being retainers to the common infirmities of humane nature . which is a phrase , through the power of self-flattery , and mens ignorance in the nature of morall actions , made to be of so large and comprehensive a sense that the most wilfull violations of the laws of heaven , and such which the scripture tells us do exclude from the kingdom of it , do find ( rather than make ) friends enough to shelter themselves under the protection of them . but such a protection it is , which is neither allowed in the court of heaven , nor will ever secure the souls of men without a hearty and sincere repentance , from the arrest of divine justice ; which when it comes to call the world to an account of their actions will make no defalcations at all for the power of custom , or common practice of the world . . the impossibility of the command , or rather of obedience to it . when neither of the former plea's will effect their design , but notwithstanding the pretended necessity of humane actions , and the more than pretended common practice of the world , their consciences still fly in their faces and rebuke them sharply for their sins , then in a mighty rage and fury they charge god himself with tyranny in laying impossible laws upon the sons of men . but if we either consider the nature of the command , or the promises which accompany it , or the large experience of the world to the contrary , we shall easily discover that this pretence is altogether as unreasonable as either of the foregoing . for what is it that god requires of men as the condition of their future happiness which in its own nature is judged impossible ? is it for men to live soberly , righteously and godly in this world ? for that was the end of christian religion to perswade men to do so : but who thinks it impossible to avoid the occasions of intemperance , not to defraud , or injure his neighbours , or to pay that reverence and sincere devotion to god which we owe unto him ? is it to do as we would be done by ? yet that hath been judged by strangers to the christian religion a most exact measure of humane conversation ; is it to maintain an universall kindness and good will to men ? that indeed is the great excellency of our religion , that it so strictly requires it ; but if this be impossible , farewell all good nature in the world ; and i suppose few will own this charge , lest theirs be suspected . is it to be patient under suffering , moderate in our desires , circumspect in our actions , contented in all conditions ? yet these are things which those have pretended to who never owned christianity , and therefore surely they never thought them impossible . is it to be charitable to the poor , compassionate to those in misery ? is it to be frequent in prayer , to love god above all things , to forgive our enemies as we hope god will forgive us , to believe the gospel , and be ready to suffer for the sake of christ ? there are very few among us but will say they do all these things already , and therefore surely they do not think them impossible . the like answer i might give to all the other precepts of the gospel till we come to the denying ungodliness and worldly lusts , and as to these too , if we charge men with them , they either deny their committing them , and then say they have kept the command ; or if they confess it , they promise amendment for the furture ; but in neither respect can they be said to think the command impossible . thus we see their own mouths will condemn them when they charge god with laying impossible laws on mankind . but then if we enquire further into the judgements of those who it may be never concerned themselves so much about the precepts of christian religion , as to try whether they had any power to observe them or not ; nay , if we yield them more ( than , it may be , they are willing to enquire after , though they ought to do it ) viz. that without the assistance of divine grace , they can never do it : yet such is the unlimited nature of divine goodness and the exceeding riches of gods grace , that ( knowing the weakness and degeneracy of humane nature when he gave these commands to men ) he makes a large and free offer of assistance to all those who are so sensible of their own infirmity as to beg it of him . and can men then say the command is impossible when he hath promised an assistance sutable to the nature of the duty & the infirmities of men ? if it be acknowledged that some of the duties of christianity are very difficult to us now ; let us consider by what means he hath sweetned the performance of them . will not the proposal of so excellent a reward , make us swallow some more than ordinary hardships that we might enjoy it ? hath he not made use of the most obliging motives to perswade us to the practice of what he requires , by the infinite discovery of his own love , the death of his son , and the promise of his spirit ? and what then is wanting , but only setting our selves to the serious obedience of them , to make his commands not only not impossible , but easie to us ? but our grand fault is , we make impossibilities our selves , where we find none , and then we complain of them : we are first resolved not to practise the commands , and then nothing more easie than to find fault with them : we first pass sentence , and then examine evidences ; first condemn , and then enquire into the merits of the cause . yet surely none of these things can be accounted impossible , which have been done by all those who have been sincere and hearty christians ; and god forbid , we should think all guilty of hypocrisie , who have professed the christian religion from the beginning of it to this day . nay more than so , they have not only done them , but professed to have that joy and satisfaction of mind in the doing of them , which they would not exchange for all the pleasures and delights of the world . these were the men , who not only were patient , but rejoyced in sufferings ; who accounted it their honour and glory to endure any thing for the sake of so excellent a religion ; who were so assured of a future happiness by it , that they valued martyrdoms above crowns and scepters . but god be thanked , we may hope to come to heaven on easier terms than these , or else many others might nevercome thither , besides those who think to make this a pretence for their sin , that now when with encouragement and honour we may practise our religion , the commands of it are thought impossible by them . thus we have made good the general charge here implyed against wicked men , in that they are called fools , by examining the most plausible pretences they bring for themselves . i now come to the particular impeachment of their folly , because they make a mock at sin . and that i shall prove especially by two things : . because this argues the highest degree of wickedness . . because it betrayes the greatest weakness of judgement and want of consideration . . because it argues the highest degree of wickedness . if to sin be folly , to make a mock at it is little short of madness . it is such a height of impiety , that few but those who are of very profligate conscienciences can attain to , without a long custom in sinning . for conscience is at first modest , and starts and boggles at the appearance of a great wickedness , till it be used to it & grown familiar with it . it is no such easie matter for a man to get the mastery of his conscience ; a great deal of force and violence must be used to ones self before he does it . the natural impressions of good and evil , the fears of a deity , and the apprehensions of a future state are such curbs and checks in a sinners way , that he must first sin himself beyond all feeling of these , before he can attain to the seat of the scorners . and we may justly wonder how any should ever come thither , when they must break through all that is ingenuous and modest , all that is vertuous and good , all that is tender and apprehensive in humane nature , before they can arrive at it . they must first deny a god , and despise an immortal soul , they must conquer their own reason , and cancell the law written in their hearts , they must hate all that is serious , and yet soberly believe themselves to be no better than the beasts that perish , before men can come to make a scoff at religion , and a mock at sin . and who now could ever imagine that in a nation professing christianity , among a people whose genius enclines them to civility and religion , yea among those who have the greatest advantages of behaviour and education , and who are to give the laws of civility to the rest of the nation , there should any be found who should deride religion , make sport with their own profaneness , and make so light of nothing , as being damned ? i come not here to accuse any , and least of all those who shew so much regard of religion as to be present in the places devoted to sacred purposes ; but if there be any such here , whose consciences accuse themselves , for any degrees of so great impiety ; i beseech them by all that is dear and precious to them , by all that is sacred and serious , by the vows of their baptism , and their participation of the holy eucharist , by all the kindness of heaven which they either enjoy or hope for , by the death and sufferings of the son of god , that they would now consider how great folly and wickedness they betray in it , and what the dreadfull consequence of it will be , if they do not timely repent of it . if it were a doubt ( as i hope it is not among any here ) whether the matters of religion be true or no , they are surely things which ought to be seriously thought and spoken of . it is certainly no jesting matter to affront a god of infinite majesty and power , ( and he judges every wilfull sinner to do so ) nor can any one in his wits think it a thing not to be regarded , whether he be eternally happy or miserable . methinks then among persons of civility and honour , above all others , religion might at least be treated with the respect and reverence due to the concernments of it ; that it be not made the sport of entertainments , nor the common subject of playes and comedies : for is there nothing to trifle with , but god and his service ? is wit grown so schismatical & sacrilegious , that it can please it self with nothing but holy ground ? are profaness & wit grown such inseparable companions , that none shall be allowed to pretend to the one , but such as dare be highly guilty of the other ? far be it from those who have but the name of christians , either to do these things themselves , or to be pleased with them that do them : especially in such times as ours of late have been , when god hath used so many wayes to make us serious if any thing would ever do it . if men had only slighted god and religion , and made a mock at sin , when they had grown wanton through the abundance of peace and plenty , and saw no severities of gods justice used upon such who did it ; yet the fault had been so great , as might have done enough to have interrupted their peace and destroyed that plenty , which made them out of the greatness of their pride and wantonness to kick against heaven : but to do it in despight of all gods judgements , to laugh in his face when his rod is upon our backs , when neither pestilence nor fire can make us more afraid of him , exceedingly aggravates the impiety , and makes it more unpardonable . when like the old germans we dance among naked swords , when men shall defie and reproach heaven in the midst of a cities ruines , and over the graves of those whom the arrows of the almighty have heaped together , what can be thought of such , but that nothing will make them serious , but eternal misery ? and are they so sure there is no such thing to be feared , that they never think of it , but when by their execrable oaths they call upon god to damn them , for fear he should not do it time enough for them ? thus while men abuse his patience , and provoke his justice , while they trample upon his kindness , and slight his severities , while they despise his laws and mock at the breaches of them , what can be added more to their impiety ? or what can be expected by such who are guilty of it , but that god should quickly discover their mighty folly by letting them see how much they have deceived themselves , since god will not be mocked , but because of these things the wrath of god will most certainly come upon the children of disobedience . which leads to the second thing wherein this folly is seen . . which is in the weakness of judgement and want of consideration , which this betrayes in men . folly is the great unsteadiness of the mind in the thoughts of what is good and fitting to be done . it were happy for many in the world , if none should suffer in their reputation for want of wisdom , but such whom nature or some violent distemper have wholly deprived of the use of their reason and understandings : but wisdom does not lye in the rambling imaginations of mens minds ( for fools may think of the same things which wise men practise ) but in a due consideration and choice of things which are most agreeable to the end they design , supposing the end in the first place to be worthy a wise mans choice ; for i cannot yet see why the end may not be chosen as-well as the means , when there are many stand in competition for our choice , and men first deliberate , and then determine which is the fittest to be pursued . but when the actions of men discover , that either they understand or regard not the most excellent end of their beings , or do those things which directly cross and thwart their own designs , or else pursue those which are mean and ignoble in themselves , we need not any further evidence of their folly , than these things discover . now that those who make a mock at sin are guilty of all these , will appear ; if we consider whom they provoke by doing so , whom they most injury , and upon what reasonable considerations they are moved to what they do . . whom they provoke by their making a mock at sin ; supposing that there is a governour of the world , who hath established laws for us to be guided by , we may easily understand , whose honour and authority is reflected on , when the violations of his laws are made nothing of . for surely if they had a just esteem of his power and soveraignty , they never durst make so bold with him , as all those do who not only commit sin themselves , but laugh at the scrupulosity of those who dare not when dionysius changed apollos cloak , and took off the golden beard of aesculapius , with those solemn jeers of the unsuitableness of the one to the son of a beardless father ; and the much greater conveniency of a cheaper garment to the other ; it was a sign he stood not much in awe of the severity of their looks , nor had any dread at all of the greatness of their power . but although there be so infinite a disproportion between the artificial deities of the heathens , and the majesty of him who made and governs the whole world ; yet as little reverence to his power and authority is shewed by all such who dare affront him with such a mighty confidence , and bid the greatest defiance to his laws by scoffing at them . what is there , the soveraigns and princes of the earth do more justly resent , and express the highest indignation against , than to have their laws despised , their persons affronted , and their authority contemned ? and can we then imagine , that a god of infinite power and majesty , the honour of whose laws is as dear to him as his own is , should sit still unconcerned , when so many indignities are continually offered them , and never take any notice at all of them ? it is true , his patience is not to be measured by our fretfull and peevish natures , ( and it is happy for us all that it is not ) he knows the sinner can never escape his power , and therefore bears the longer with him : but yet his lenity is always joyned with his wisdom and justice , and the time is coming when patience it self shall be no more . is it not then the highest madness and folly to provoke one whose power is infinitely greater than our own is , and from the severity of whose wrath we cannot secure our selves one minute of an hour ? how knowest thou , o vain man , but that in the midst of all thy mirth and jollity , while thou art boasting of thy sins , and thinkest thou canst never fill up fast enough the measure of thy iniquities , a sudden fit of an apoplexy , or the breaking of an aposteme , or any of the innumerable instruments of death , may dispatch thee hence , and consign thee into the hands of divine justice ? and wherewithall then wilt thou be able to dispute with god ? wilt thou then charge his providence with folly , and his laws with unreasonableness ? when his greatness shall affright thee , his majesty astonish thee ▪ his power disarm thee , and his justice proceed against thee : when notwithstanding all thy bravado's here , they own conscience shall be not only thy accuser and witness , but they judge and executioner too : when it shall revenge it self upon thee for all the rapes and violences thou hast committed upon it here : when horror and confusion shall be thy portion , and the unspeakable anguish of a racked and tormented mind shall too late convince thee of thy folly in making a mock at that which stings with an everlasting venom . art thou then resolved to put all these things to the adventure , and live as securely as if the terrors of the almighty were but the dreams of men awake , or the fancies of weak and distempered brains ? but i had rather believe that in the heat and fury of thy lusts thou wouldst seem to others to think so , than thou either doest or canst perswade thy self to such unreasonable folly . is it not then far better to consult the tranquillity of thy mind here , and the eternal happiness of it hereafter , by a serious repentance and speedy amendment of thy life , than to expose thy self for the sake of thy sensual pleasures to the fury of that god whose justice is infinite , and power irresistible ? shall not the apprehension of his excellency make thee now afraid of him ? never then make any mock at sin more , unless thou art able to contend with the almighty , or to dwell with everlasting burnings . . the folly of it is seen in considering whom the injury redounds to by mens making themselves so pleasant with their sins . do they think by their rude attempts to dethrone the majesty of heaven , or by standing at the greatest defiance , to make him willing to come to terms of composition with them ? do they hope to slip beyond the bounds of his power , by falling into nothing when they dye , or to sue out prohibitions in the court of heaven , to hinder the effects of iustice there ? do they design to out-wit infinite wisdom , or to find such flaws in gods government of the world , that he shall be contented to let them go unpunished ? all which imaginations are alike vain and foolish , and only shew how easily wickedness baffles the reason of mankind , and makes them rather hope or wish for the most impossible things , than believe they shall ever be punished for their impieties . if the apostate spirits can by reason of their present restraint and expectation of future punishments be as pleasant in beholding the follies of men as they are malicious to suggest them , it may be one of the greatest diversions of their misery , to see how active and witty men are in contriving their own ruine . to see with what greediness they catch at every bait that is offered them , and when they are swallowing the most deadly poyson , what arts they use to perswade themselves that it is a healthful potion . no doubt , nothing can more gratifie them than to see men sport themselves into their own destruction , and go down so pleasantly to hell : when eternal flames become the first awakeners , and then men begin to be wise , when it is too late to be so : when nothing but insupportable torments can convince them that god was in earnest with them , that he would not alwayes bear the affronts of evil men , and that those who derided the miseries of another life , shall have leisure enough to repent their folly , when their repentance shall only increase their sorrow without hopes of pardon by it . . but if there were any present felicity , or any considerable advantage to be gained by this mocking at sin , and undervaluing religion , there would seem to be some kind of pretence , though nothing of true reason for it . yet that which heightens this folly to the highest degree in the last place is , that there can be no imaginable consideration thought on which might look like a plausible temptation to it . the covetous man , when he hath defrauded his neighbour , and used all kinds of arts to compass an estate , hath the fulness of his baggs to answer for him ; and whatever they may do in another world , he is sure they will do much in this . the voluptuous man , hath the strong propensities of his nature , the force of temptation which lyes in the charms of beauty , to excuse his unlawfull pleasures by . the ambitious man , hath the greatness of his mind , the advantage of authority , the examples of those who have been great before him , and the envy of those who condemn him , to plead for the heights he aims at . but what is it which the person who despises religion , and laughs at every thing that is serious , proposes to himself as the reason of what he does ? but alas ! this were to suppose him to be much more serious than he is , if he did propound any thing to himself as the ground of his actions . but it may be a great kindness to others , though none to himself ; i cannot imagine any , unless it may be , to make them thankfull they are not arrived to that height of folly ; or out of perfect good nature , least they should take him to be wiser than he is . the psalmists fool despises him as much as he does religion : for he only saith it in his heart there is no god ; but this though he dares not think there is none , yet shews him not near so much outward respect & reverence as the other does . every the atheist himself thinks him a fool , & the greatest of all other , who believes a god , and yet affronts him and trifles with him . and although the atheist's folly be unaccountable , in resisting the clearest evidence of reason , yet so far he is to be commended for what he sayes , that if there be such a thing as religion men ought to be serious in it . so that of all hands the scoffer at religion is looked on as one forsaken of that little reason , which might serve to uphold a slender reputation of being above the beasts that perish : nay , therein his condition is worse than theirs , that as they understand not religion , they shall never be punished for despising it : which such a person can never secure himself from , considering the power , the justice , the severity of that god , whom he hath so highly provoked . god grant , that the apprehension of this danger may make us so serious in the profession and practice of our religion , that we may not by slighting that , and mocking at sin , provoke him to laugh at our calamities , and mock when our fear comes ; but that by beholding the sincerity of our repentance , and the heartiness of our devotion to him , he may turn his anger away from us , and rejoyce over us to do us good . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e kings . , , . joh. . . tit. . ▪ gal. . . eph. . . several conferences between a romish priest, a fanatick chaplain, and a divine of the church of england concerning the idolatry of the church of rome, being a full answer to the late dialogues of t.g. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) several conferences between a romish priest, a fanatick chaplain, and a divine of the church of england concerning the idolatry of the church of rome, being a full answer to the late dialogues of t.g. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed by m.w. for h. mortlock ..., london : . attributed to edward stillingfleet. cf. bm. t.g. is thomas godden. cf. dnb. reproduction of original in the university of illinois (urbana-champaign campus). library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in 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is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng godden, thomas, - . catholic church -- controversial literature. idols and images -- worship -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - rina kor sampled and proofread - rina kor text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion several conferences between a romish priest , a fanatick chaplain , and a divine of the church of england , concerning the idolatry of the church of rome : being a full answer to the late dialogues of t. g. london , printed by m. w. for h. mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , and at the white hart in westminster hall. . imprimatur , guil. jane r. p. d. hen. episc. lond. à sac . domest . may . . the preface . the following discourses contain a full and distinct answer to the late dialogues of t.g. wherein the reader may perceive what an easie victory , truth , when it stands its ground , will obtain over wit and subtilty . when the man who fell in the olympick games , endeavoured by his eloquence to perswade the spectators he was never down , it is possible he might meet with some weak and others partial enough to believe him ; but the judges could not but smile at their folly who did not discern the difference between the firmness of the ones standing and the others artificial rising ; the one might shew more art and dexterity , but the other had more strength or some other advantage . i shall leave the reader to judge in these combats who maintains his ground best , and who seeks chiefly to avoid the dis-reputation of losing it . he that keeps close to his adversary , declines no difficulty , uses no reproachful language , or disingenuous dealing , hath certainly greater assurance of the goodness of his cause and more hopes to prevail ; than he that studies for shifts and evasions , avoids the strongest arguments , and flyes out into impertinent cavils and personal reflections ; which are great signs that the man is conscious of the badness of his cause , and despairs of success by any other means . and the author of these discourses desires that his adversary and himself may stand or fall according to these measures . as to the manner of writing here used , viz. by way of dialogue , it is that which his adversary led him to ; and possibly , where the decency of it is well observed , it may make controversie go down more pleasantly than otherwise it would . for there appears more life and vigour in a discourse carried on by several persons of different humours and opinions , than in one continued deduction of reason . and the author declares he intended no reflection on any sober party of men among us in the representation made of the army-chaplain , who bears the third part in the conferences ; but only to shew the advantage the popish party takes from the weak and peevish exceptions which some men have made against the church of england ; and how they insinuate themselves into them on the account of their prejudices against it , and have made use of their indiscreet zeal to compass their own ends . which is so far from being a romance or fiction , that besides the footsteps which may be yet traced of these transactions , by the means and instruments which were imploy'd about them ; we find that one of the most busie ●actors of the roman church , wh●n he most confidently denyed the other parts of the late horrid design , did not stick to avow and own this , that they did hope to prevail at last by joyning their strength with the obstinate dissenters in procuring a general toleration ; which was all the visible design they were carrying on , when these discourses were written . since which , the face of things hath been so much alter'd among us , and the times appear'd so busie and dangerous , that it was thought more adviseable to respite the publishing of these controversial discourses till mens minds were a little calmed ; lest the author of them should seem guilty of the impertinent diligence of archimedes , viz. of drawing lines in the dust , when the enemy was ready to destroy us . had the author had any occasion to have run away from the argument under debate between him and his adversary , he did not want a fair opportunity in the present state of things , to have put him in mind of something very different from an irenicum . but he desired me to acquaint the reader that he does so perfectly abhor this impertinent and disingenuous way of writing , especially about matters of religion , that he could neither be provok'd nor tempted to it , no not by so great and fresh an example as he had all along before his eyes . may that wise and gracious god who hath hitherto defeated the cruel and malicious designs of our churches enemies , still preserve it under the shadow of his wings , and continue it a praise in the earth . the contents . first conference , concerning the sense of the church of england , about the idolatry of the church of rome . the introduction to it page an account of t. g.'s late dialogues p. of the genuine sons of the church of england according to t. g. p. . of his intention about the sense of the church of england in this matter p. of the nature of the testimonies produced by dr. st. p. the argument from the homilies defended p. this charge of idolatry proved to be no heat in the beginning of the reformation . p. the argument from the rubrick for kneeling at the communion at large considered . p. no colour for idolatry in kneeling at the eucharist . p. t. g.'s sense of the rubrick examined . p. of material and formal idolatry . p. how far the real presence is held by our church . p. bertram's book not the same with that of joh. scotus . p. of the stercoranists . p. of impanation . p. of a corporeal presence . p. of b. abbots being a puritan . p. how far the church of rome is chargeable with idolatry . p. mr. thorndike vindicated from suspicion of popery by a m s. of his own writing here published . p. arch-bishop whitgifts testimony cleared . p. of the distinction between parts and circumstances of worship . p. how far the charge of idolatry is agreeable to the articles of our church . p. second conference , about the consequences of the charge of idolatry . p. the introduction , concerning the restauration of learning , being the true occasion of the reformation . p. of the validity of ordination on supposition of the charge of idolatry . p. authority goes along with the power of orders by the principles of the roman church . p. of the indelible character . p. the distinction between the power of order and jurisdiction examined . p. of excommunication ipso facto on the charge of idolatry . p. dr. st. proved to have no design to undermine the church of england . p. the design of his irenicum cleared . p. how far the being of a church and the possibility of salvation consistent with the charge of idolatry . p. a large testimony of b. sanderson's to that purpose . p. no necessity of assigning a distinct church in all ages . p. no obligation to communion with the roman church . p. no parity of reason in separating from the church of england , and in her separation from rome . p. a passage in the irenicum cleared . p. how far idolatry consistent with owning the fundamental articles of faith. p. t. g.'s shuffling about the sense of the second commandment . p. third conference , about the nature of idolatry . p. an abstract of the design of dr. st.'s general discourse of the nature of idolatry . p. of the manner of t. g.'s answering it . p. the postulata granted by him . p. many material omissions in t. g.'s answer . p. of the patronus bonae fidei and the service he doth the papists . p. the disparity between bowing towards the altar and the worship of images at large cleared . p. of the difference between reverence to sacred places and worship of images . p. the arguments of the patronus bonae fidei , against bowing towards the altar , answered . p. the supposition of transubstantiation doth not make it more reasonable . p. of idolatry in the nature of the thing . p. of the sinfulness of idolatry antecedently to a positive law. p. t. g.'s principles justifie the worship of god in any creature . p. relative worship condemned by the primitive church . p. as great danger in the worship of images as of gods creatures . p. t. g.'s trifling about meletetiques and mystical theology . p. the incongruity of worshipping christ by a crucifix . p. of the nature and kinds of certainty . p. why the certainty of religion called moral . p. several sorts of certainty of the christian faith. p. of the impossibility of falshood in it . p. dr. st.'s charge of idolatry reaches to definitions of councils and practises generally allowed . p. the parallel about bowing towards the altar , farther answered . p. his fidelity in citations justified against t. g.'s cavils . p. the citation of lugo defended . p. the parallel between reverence to sacred places and things , and the worship of images fully disproved . p. the citation of greg. nyssen entred upon . p. the parallel between the arian and romish idolatry defended . p. t. g.'s exceptions against it answered . p. greg. nyssen's testimony cleared . p. the difference of the practice of invocation of saints in the church of rome , from the addresses in the fourth century shewed in several particulars . p. t. g.'s answer to the council of laodicea examined . p. the testimony of arnobius rightly cited by dr. st. p. of relative latria being given to images . p. of inferiour worship as distinct from latria , and neither of them shewed to clear the church of rome from idolatry . p. fourth conference , about the parallel between the heathen and romish idolatry . p. t. g.'s notion of heathen idolatry . p. how far jupiter's being the supreme god relates to the main controversie . p. in what sense jupiter might be called an unknown god. p. s. augustin makes the true god to be truly worshipped by the athenians . p. t. g.'s exceptions answered . p. the distinction between jupiter of greet , and the supreme jupiter . p. the place of rom. . , . not answered by t. g. p. aquinas his testimony cleared . p. the state of the controversie about the fathers . p. justin martyr no friend to t. g.'s hypothesis . p. athenagoras at large cleared . p. a threefold jupiter among the fathers . p. theophilus antiochenus not to t. g.'s purpose . p. tertullian vindicated . p. clemens alexandrinus . p. minucius felix . p. other testimonies rejected as impertinent . p. t. g.'s accounts of heathen idolatry examined . p. first , in taking their images for gods , at large disproved . p. ( . ) in worshipping many false gods , that likewise disproved . p. t. g.'s arguments answered . p. the absurd consequences of this notion of heathen idolatry . p. t. g.'s pittiful evasions as to the modern idolaters . p. ( . ) in worshipping the creatures instead of god ; the nature of that idolatry enquired into . p. worshipping the creatures with respect to god as soul of the world , justifiable on the the same grounds with adoration of the host. p. why it is idolatry to give all external worship to the creatures . p. a twofold hypothesis of heathen idolatry . p. the parallel as to the church of rome defended . p. of appropriate acts of divine worship . p. what errour of judgement the act of idolatry implyes . p. lugo's testimony cleared . p. whether the church hath power to discriminate acts of worship ? p. how far circumstances discriminate acts of civil and religious worship ? p. whether the church of rome doth appropriate any act of external adoration to god. p. that the very sacrifice of the mass is offered in honour of gods creatures , and consequently is not appropriated to the honour of god. p. dr. st. doth not differ from the divines of the church of england about the sacrifice of the mass. p. how far the sacrifice of the mass may be said to be the act of the people . p. errata . page . line . dele not . p. . l. . dele not . p. . l. . r. savouring . p. . l. . r. declares . p. . l. . r. as so sacred . p. . l. . for no , r. do . p. . l. . for not so , r. so . p. . l. . for fallo , r. fullo . p. . l. . for idolatry , r. idolaters . p. . l. . for i not , r. i do not . p. . l. , . for matters , r. matter . first conference , concerning the sense of the church of england , about the idolatry of the church of rome . rom. p. you are well met at this auction of books . i have been present at many of them beyond sea : but i never was at one in england before . how go the prices of books here ? fan. ch. very dear methinks , by the books i have bought ; but i find they are so catched up by our brethren , that if we will have them , we must pay dear for them . r. p. may i know what they are sir ? f. c. only some few choice pieces which i have picked out of this great catalogue ; such as , nepthali or the groanings of the church of scotland ; cooks monarchy no creature of gods making ; but the things i most value are the pamphlets , such as sermons before the long parliament in several volumes . and a rare collection of authors about liberty of conscience . r. p. are there so many books to be had about liberty of conscience ? f. c. yes ; a great many have written for and against it . r. p. who are they who have written for it ? f. c. to tell you the truth , some of the same who wrote against it heretofore ; but they are now more enlightned ; as those who wrote against separation when time was , are now the greatest advocates for it . for , there are some providential truths , which vary according to circumstances . do not we see the papists , who were thought the greatest enemies to toleration in the world , now plead most vehemently for it ? and are even angry with us for not acting sufficiently in this cause against the church of england . but because i take you for a friend by your enquiring after these books , i must tell you , it is yet a disputable point among us , how far we may joyn with antichrist , to promote the interest of christ ; and some insist on that place to prove the unlawfulness of it , be ye not unequally yoked ; others again prove it lawful , because it is said , yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world — or with idolaters : whence they observe , that they may joyn with them in some things , or for some ends ; but not altogether , i. e. they must not joyn with them in their idolatries , but they may against the church of england . r. p. this is too publick a place to talk of these matters in : but may we not withdraw into the next room ; for i have a great mind to set you right in this main point of present concernment . and if the papists should be found not to be idolaters , a great part of your difficulty is gone . do you think , it is not fit for you to be better informed in this matter , when a thing of so great consequence depends upon it , as your deliverance from the persecution of the church of england ? which you know , we have all sighed and groaned for , a long time . it is in vain for any of you to expect favour from thence , as long as she is able to stand . for if the bishops were never so much inclined to it , how could they possibly give ease to you without destroying themselves ? and since the dissenting parties are so different among themselves in their light and attainments , it is impossible to please any one party , without displeasing all the rest . comprehension is a meer snare and temptation to the brethren , being a design to prefer some , and to leave the rest in the lurch . let us all joyn our strengths together , to pull down this church of england , and then , though there be a king in israel , every one may do what seemeth good in his own eyes . f. c. i doubt you are not well seen in scripture ; for the text is , in those dayes there was no king in israel , and every one did what seemed good in his own eyes : whence you may observe a special hint by the by , that toleration agrees best with a common-wealth . but this to your self : and you might justly wonder at this freedom with you ; but that i remember you many years ago , when you and i preached up the fifth monarchy together in the army . those were glorious dayes ! ah the liberty we then enjoyed ! did we then think , the good old cause would ever have ended thus ? well! it is good to be silent in bad times . but methinks you and i however may retire and talk over old stories , and refresh our memories with former out-goings together . for here is little at present for us to do . r. p. whereabouts are they now in the catalogue ? f. c. among the fathers ; those old-testament divines . what lights have we seen since their dayes ! we need not trouble our selves about them . but i observe the church of england men buy them up at any rate . what prices do they give for a justin martyr , or epiphanius or philo , who they say was a meer jew ? how must they starve their people with the divinity of these men ? how much of the good divinity of the late times might they have for the money ? we cannot but pity their blindness . but i see we cannot be here so private as we wished ; for yonder sits a divine of the church of england , who i suppose , is the person , who bought so many fathers at the last auction , as though he had a mind to write against the papists . r. p. sit you by a while ; and we will talk of our matters another time . i have been much abroad since you and i were first acquainted , and have lately brought over a new book from paris . you shall see how i will handle him ; and if you put in upon occasion , you shall find by this experiment , what success our united forces would have against the church of england . f. c. do you begin ; and you shall see how i will second you , when occasion offers it self . r. p. sir , i perceive the divines of the church of england , do buy up the fathers very much at auctions . i wonder that any who read the fathers can be for the church of england . pr. div. and i do more wonder at you for saying so . for therefore we are for the church of england , because we read both scripture and fathers . r. p. to what purpose is all this charge and pains , if there be an infallible church ? p. d. therefore to good purpose ; because there is no one church infallible . r. p. is there not a catholick church ? p. d. do you think i have forgotten my creed ? r. p. which is that catholick church ? p. d. which of all the parts is the whole ? is that your wise question ? do not you know the christian church hath been broken into different communions ever since the four general councils , and continues so to this day ? what do you mean by the catholick church ? r. p. i mean the church of rome . p. d. then you ask me , which is the church of rome ? but what need you ask that , since you know it already ? r. p. but the roman church is the catholick church . p. d. you may as well say , london is england , or england the world. and why may not we call england the world , because the rest of the world is divided from it ; as you the roman church the catholick church ; because the other churches are separated in communion from it ? r. p. i mean the roman church is the head and fountain of catholick doctrine ; and other churches are pure and sound as they do agree with it . p. d. your proposition is not so self-evident , that the bare knowing your meaning , must make me assent . i pray first prove what you say , before i yield . r.p. was not the church of rome once a sound and catholick church ? p. d. what then ? so was the church of jerusalem , of antioch , and alexandria ; and so were the seven churches of asia . were all these heads and fountains too ? r. p. but s. paul speaks of the church of rome . p. d. he doth so ; but not much to her comfort ; for he supposes she may be broken off through unbelief , as well as any other church ? r. p. doth not s. paul say , that the roman faith was spoken of throughout the world ? p. d. what then i beseech you ? doth it follow that faith must alwayes continue the same any more than that the church of philadelphia must at this day be , what it was when s. john wrote those great commendations of it ? these are such slender proofs that you had as good come to downright begging the cause , as pretend to maintain it after such a manner . the faith of rome was not more spoken of in the apostles dayes , than its errours and corruptions have been since . r. p. these are general words ; name me one of those errours and corruptions . p. d. for this time , i will name the publick and allowed worship of your church , which after all your shifts and evasions i cannot excuse from idolatry . r. p. how is that ? idolatry ? god forbid . i did not expect this charge from a divine of the church of england . i was prepared to receive it , from my old fanatick acquaintance here : he would have thundered me with the texts of antichrist , and the whore of babylon , and have quoted half the book of the revelations against me , before this time , if we had not espyed you in the room . but i perceive though your artillery may be different , your charge is the same . i pray tell me , how long is it since you of the church of england have maintained this charge ? for , i have been often told , that only one late defender of your church , hath advanced two new charges against the church of rome , viz. fanaticism and idolatry , and that the true sons of the church of england disown them both ▪ p. d. whoever told you so hath deceived you ; but it is not the only thing they have deceived you in . i never yet saw so much as a tolerable answer to the charge of fanaticism . and for that of idolatry , the authour you mean , hath proved beyond contradiction , that it hath been managed against the church of rome , by the greatest and most learned defenders of the church of england , and the most genuine sons of it , ever since the reformation . r.p. but have not you seen , what t. g. hath said to all that , and how he hath shewed that his witnesses were incompetent ? p. d. i have both seen and considered all that t. g. hath said , and compared it with dr. stillingfleets reply in the general preface to his answers . and i must declare to you , that if the sense of a church may be known by the concurrent sense of her most eminent divines , or by her most authentick acts , as by the book of homilies , forms of prayer and thanksgivings , rubricks , injunctions , the judgement of convocation , even that of mdcxl , dr. st. hath made it evident , that the charge of idolatry is agreeable to the sense of the church of england . r. p. you thought t. g. would have quitted this post upon dr. st's second charge ; but you are mistaken in him ; for i have brought over a book of dialogues from paris , wherein t. g. undertakes again to prove this to be only the charge of fanaticks , and not of the church of england nor of the genuine sons of it . f. c. it is true ; we whom you call fanaticks do charge the church of rome , or rather the synagogue of antichrist , with idolatry ; for , is it not said , and they worshipped the beast ? but you must know for your comfort , that we do likewise charge the church of england with it . for what are all their bowings , and kneelings , and crossings , but vain imaginations ? and the worship of them is as bad as the worship of images . and do not they make an idol of the common prayer ? p. d. this is not fair , gentlemen ; but one at once i beseech you . as to your charge of the church of england , i shall be ready to answer it , when you can agree to bring it in . i now desire to know , what evidence t. g. brings to prove the charge of idolatry not to be agreeable to the sense of the church of england . hath he brought other homilies , other injunctions , other rubricks , other convocations , or at least other divines , generally received and owned for the genuine sons of this church , who have from time to time freed the church of rome from idolatry , and looked upon the charge , not only as unjust but pernicious and destructive to the being of a church ? nay , can he produce any one divine of the church of england , before the convocation mdcxl , that ever said any such thing , or did wholly acquit the church of rome from this charge ? if not , let him not think , we have a new church made after another model , and upon new principles , or that those can be esteemed the genuine sons of it , who contradict the sense of the church ever since the reformation . if there be any such among us , they ought first to be proved to be true sons of our church , before their testimony be allowed , which if i be not mistaken , will be much harder , than to prove the charge of idolatry to be agreeable to the sense of it . but what method doth t. g. take in this matter ? r.p. t. g. like a wary man disputes in masquerade . for he doth not think fit to appear in his own person ; but he brings in a conformist , and a non-conformist arguing the point . and the conformist speaks t. g.'s sense in acquitting the church of rome ; and the non-conformist vindicates dr. st. and makes a pitiful defence of him . p.d. it was very wittily done . and the scene was well enough laid , if the plot were only to represent dr. st. as a secret enemy to the church of england , as i suppose it was . but to what purpose are all those personal reflections : and some repeated over and over , with so much appearance of rancour and ill will , as doth not become a man of any common ingenuity ? can the catholick cause be maintained by no other arts than these ? methinks t. g. might have let the little whifflers in controversie , such as the authour of the address to the parliament , and of that precious pamphlet called jupiter dr. st's supreme god , &c. to have made a noise at they know not what ; crying out upon him as an enemy to the church of england , ( because he defends her cause to their great vexation ) and as a friend to pagan idolatry , ( because he hath laid open the folly of yours . ) these are such weak assaults as expose your cause to the contempt of all wise men ; who expect reason should be answered with reason , and not with calumnies and reproaches : which in my apprehension dr. st. ought to rejoyce in as the marks of victory ; for while they have any other ammunition left , no enemies will betake themselves to dirt and stones . when i read through the first part of t. g.'s dialogues , and observed how industriously he set himself to bespatter his adversary , and raked all the kennels he could for that purpose , ( especially that of the patronus bonae fidei , &c. ) i could not but think of an animal , which being closely pursued and in great danger , gets himself into the most convenient place for mire and dirt , and there so layes about him with his heels , that no one dares to come near him . it was certainly with some such design that t. g. hath at last taken sanctuary in a bog ; hoping his adversary will never pursue him thither . but notwithstanding this project of his , we will try , whether in spite of his heels we cannot bring him to reason . therefore i pray let us set aside all rude and unbecoming reflections , and calmly consider , how t. g. proves that the charge of idolatry is not agreeable to the sense of the church of england . r. p. hold sir ; you are a little too nimble , t. g. saith , his intention was only to shew , that dr. st. had not sufficiently proved it to be the sense of the church of england , from the testimony he then produced , whatsoever he might or could do from other acts or authours of that church . and he elsewhere saith , that t. g. did not dispute ex professo , whether it were the sense of the church of england , that the church of rome is guilty of idolatry or no ? nor , whether dr. st. dissented from the sense of his church ? but what he undertook to shew was no more than that two parts of the authours there cited by the dr. were puritans , or puritanically inclined , by the confession of other divines of the church of england ; and therefore according to dr. st 's own measures ( if they were good , ) their testimonies ought to be looked on as incompetent to prove what he asserted ; and for the other six , that what they charged with idolatry , was not the doctrine of the church of rome , but some things which they conceived to be great abuses in the practice of it . and this , he saith , is the true state of that controversie . p.d. if it be so , i cry t.g. mercy . for , i thought he designed to prove this charge of idolatry not to be agreeable to the sense of the church of england . but you say t. g. now denies it ; and if i were as dr. st. i would thank him for it . for , would any man say this , that thought it could ever be proved to be against the sense of the church of england ? and what could have been more material to his purpose than this , if it could have been done ? well fare t. g.'s ingenuity for once ! that finding it impossible to be done , he now denies that he ever attempted the doing it . but the first question in a fray is , how fell they out ? we shall better judge of t. g.'s design by the occasion of it . dr. st. affirmed that in the charge of idolatry he did not contradict the sense of the church of england . did he , or did he not ? if he did not , dr. st. was in the right : if he did , why did not t. g. shew it ? but after this yielding up the main point in effect , it is easie to prove that t. g. did design to shew , as well as he could , that the charge of idolatry was against the sense of the church of england ; but finding it would not do , he now disowns it . for ( . ) doth not t. g. appeal to the articles of the church of england for the most authentick declaration of her sense ? and because the church of rome is not there charged with idolatry , doth he not hence dispute ex professo , that it was against her sense ? to what purpose was that ingenious criticism , of being rather repugnant to the word of god ; which he interprets as though the composers of our articles had done their endeavour to find a command against the worship of images , but could not . what do you think of this argument ? what did t. g. intend to prove by it ? is it not as clear as the sun , that it was to shew that the charge of idolatry was against the sense of the church of england ? why then is t. g. ashamed now of it , and denies he had any such design ? there must be some more than ordinary cause of a mans denying what he once so openly avowed to do . nay , in these very dialogues , after repeating his former words , t. g. saith , thus clearly hath t. g. evinced the sense of the church of england in this matter . say you so ? and yet never designed to dispute ex professo , whether it were the sense of the church of england or not ? who is it i pray hath the knack of saying , and unsaying ; of affirming and denying the very same thing in a few leaves ? or did t. g. never intend any such thing ; but the church of england of her own accord , knowing t. g.'s good affections to her , stept into the court , and declared her sense ? have we not the best natured church in the world that is so kind to her enemies , and expresseth her sense to be on their side , whether they will or not ? our church then is like the countrey mans river which comes without calling ; alas ! what need t. g. dispute ex professo , what her sense is ; she offers her own testimony , and desires to be heard in the dispute whether t. g. will or not . let any man judge by these words what t. g.'s design was then , whatever he thinks fit to own now . ( . ) he shews , that if it had been the sense of the church of england in the articles , that the church of rome were guilty of idolatry in the worship of images , adoration of the host , or invocation of saints , all those who denyed it , would have incurred excommunication ipso facto , as appears by the canons . what was t. g.'s design in this , if it were not to prove the charge of idolatry to be against the sense of the church of england ? is this only to shew the witnesses dr. st. produced to be incompetent ? what a benefit it is , for a man to forget what he hath no mind to remember ! and then to deny as stoutly as if the thing had never been done . ( . ) is it not t. g. who in terms asserts that dr. st. betrayed his church in advancing such a medium , as contradicts the sense of that church , ( mark that . ) it is true , he adds , if it be to be taken from the sentiments of those , who are esteemed her true and genuine sons . was it t. g.'s design then , not to dispute what was the sense of the church of england ; nor whether dr. st. dissented from it ? i will not meddle with that , whether t. g. be a competent judge who are the true and genuine sons of the church of england . no doubt in his opinion , those who come nearest the church of rome are such ; and advance such speculations as lay the charge of schism at her own door . but true sons are no more for laying division to the charge of their mother , than the true mother was for dividing the son. those are certainly the most genuine sons of our church , who own her doctrine , defend her principles , conform to her rules , and are most ready to maintain her cause against all her enemies . and among these there is no difference , and there ought to be no distinction . but if any frame a church of their own heads , without any regard to the articles , homilies , and current doctrine of our church , and yet will call that the church of england , and themselves the only genuine sons of it , i do not question t. g. and your brethren would be glad to have them thought so , to lessen our number and impair our interest ; but none that understand and value our church , will endure such a pernicious discrimination among the sons of the same mother ; as though some few were fatally determined to be the sons of our church , whatever their works and merits were ; and others absolutely cast off , notwithstanding the greatest service . i should not mention this , but that i see t. g. insinuating all along such a distinction as this ; and crying up some persons on purpose as the only genuine sons of the church of england , that he might cast reproach upon others ; and thereby foment animosities among brethren . but whose children those are who do so , i leave t. g. to consider . r. p. whatever t. g.'s intention was , yet you cannot deny that he hath proved two parts in three to be incompetent witnesses according to his own measures . p. d. not deny it ? i never saw any thing more weakly attempted to be proved , as dr. st. hath shewed at large in his preface . bishop white being rejected as a puritan , because condemned by that party . bishop jewel , because k. charles said he was not infallible . bishop bilson , because of his errours about civil government , though a stout defender of the church of england . bishop davenant , because he was none of the fathers . bishop vsher , because his adversary gives an ill character of him . by this you may judge , what powerful exceptions t. g. made against two parts in three of the witnesses . r. p. t. g. saith , that dr. st. rather waved the exceptions by pretty facetious artifices of wit , than repelled them by a downright denial , out of the affection catharinus hopes he bears still to the cause , which had been honoured by such learned and godly bishops as jewel , downham , usher , the two abbots and davenant : which are recorded among the puritans by the patronus bonae fidei . p. d. you might as well have quoted surius & cochlaeus for your church ; as this patronus bonae fidei for ours . for he is an historian much of their size and credit . but of him we shall have occasion to speak hereafter : t. g. filling page after page out of him . let the reader judge whether dr. st. did not shew t. g.'s exceptions to be vain and srivolous , and consequently these remain substantial and competent witnesses . and as to the cause of the church of england , which these learned and pious prelates defended and honoured , dr. st. will rejoyce to be joyned with them , though it be in suffering reproach for the sake of it . r. p. let us pass over these single testimonies , and come to the most material proofs which dr. st. used , and t. g. declares , he is not yet convinced by them ; that the charge of idolatry was the sense of the church of england . p. d. with all my heart . the first was from the book of homilies , not barely allowed , but subscribed to , as containing godly and wholsome doctrine very necessary for these times ; which owns this charge of idolatry not in any doubtful , or single passage , but in an elaborate discourse intended for the teachers , as well as the people . to which he added , that the doctrine of the homilies is allowed in the thirty nine articles ; which were approved by the queen ; confirmed by the subscription of both houses of convocation , a. d. . and therefore he desires t. g. to resolve him , whether men of any common understanding would have subscribed to the book of homilies in this manner , if they had believed the main doctrine and design of one of them had been false and pernicious ? if , saith he , any of the bishops had at that time thought the charge of idolatry unjust , and that it had subverted the foundation of ecclesiastical authority , would they have inserted this into the articles , when it was in their power to have left it out ? and that the homilies contained a wholesome and godly doctrine , which in their consciences they believed to be false and pernicious ? he might as well think , he saith , that the council of trent would have allowed calvins institutions , as containing a wholesome and godly doctrine , as that men so perswaded would have allowed the homily against the peril of idolatry . and how is it possible to understand the sense of our church better , than by such publick and authentick acts of it , which all persons who are in any place of trust in the church must subscribe and declare their approbation of ? this homily hath still continued the same , the article the very same , and if so , they must acknowledge this hath been and is to this day the sense of our church . and to what t. g. saith , that this doth not evince every particular doctrine contained in the homilies to be godly and wholesome , because the whole book is subscribed to as containing such doctrine ; he answers , that there is a great deal of difference to be made between some particular passages and expressions in these homilies , and the main doctrine and design of a whole homily : and between subscribing to a whole book as containing godly and wholsome doctrine , though men be not so certain of the truth of every passage in it ; and if they are convinced that any doctrine contained in it is false and pernicious . now those who deny the church of rome to be guilty of idolatry do not only look on the charge as false , but as of dangerous consequence ; and therefore such a subscription would be shuffling and dishonest . from these things laid together , in my mind dr. st. hath not only clearly proved that the charge of idolatry was not only owned by the composers of the homilies , but by all who have honestly subscribed to the articles from that time to our own . and i would be glad to hear what answer t. g. gives to all this . r. p. he answers , first by repeating what he said before ; and then by shewing that subscription is no good argument , considering what had been done and undone in that kind in the reigns of k. henry . edw. . q. mary , and q. elizabeth , not to speak of latter times . p. d. what is this , but in plain terms to say the subscribers of our articles were men of no honesty or conscience ; but would say or unsay , subscribe one thing or another as it served their turn ? if this be his way of defending our church , we shall desire him to defend his own . but yet , this doth not reach home to the doctors argument , which proceeded not meerly on their honesty , but their having common understanding . for here was no force or violence offered them , they had the full power to consider the articles , and to compose the homilies , and would men of common sense put in things against their own minds , and make and approve and recommend homilies which they did not believe themselves ? this evidently proves the composers of the homilies and convocation at that time , did approve the doctrine of these homilies , for it was in their power not to have passed them . thus far it is plain that was the doctrine of the church then , and why should we suppose any subscribers to take them in any other sense , than the church did then mean them ? nay , dr. st. challenged him , to produce any one divine of our church , who through the long reign of q. elizabeth did so much as once question the truth of this charge . doth t. g. upon so long consideration of this matter name any ? r. p. not any that i find . p. d. but that will be best seen by considering dr. st.'s second argument of the sense of the church of england in this matter , viz. from the current doctrine of the church ever since the reformation , the injunctions of edw. . of cranmer , of q. elizabeth ; the form of thanksgiving , a. d. . r. p. to this t. g. answers , that this was a heat in the beginning of the reformation ; but after the crown was settled upon k. james , whose title was unquestionable both at rome , ( at home i suppose he means ) and abroad , the dangerous consequences of the charge of idolatry , began to be more calmly and maturely considered ; and were so throughly weighed in the time of k. charles i. that as heylin saith , bishop laud hindred the reprinting the books containing calvinian doctrines . which evidently shews , saith he , that that party never looked upon the expressions of idolatry contained in those injunctions as the dogmatical sense of the church of england . p. d. a very likely story ! that our church should vary in its doctrine , because k. james his title to the crown was unquestionable . it seems before , the church of rome was guilty of idolatry , because q. elizabeths title was not owned by the pope . what a fine insinuation is couched under all this ? viz. that our church depended wholly on the queens pleasure , and fitted her doctrines to serve her turn ; and when that was over , the tide turned , and that was pernicious doctrine now , which was wholesome before ; and wholesome now , which was pernicious before ; and yet there were the same articles , the same homilies , the same subscriptions which were before . r. p. but he quotes a doctour of your own church for what he saith , p. heylin , and delivers it in his words . p. d. p. heylin speaks not one word in that place of the charge of idolatry ; ( although t. g. seems to represent it so ) but of those who reviled the church of rome it self , and all the divine offices , ceremonies and performances of it . which it is plain he there speaks of the genevian party ; for but just before he mentions the geneva bible , and the dangerous positions contained in the annotations printed with it . now these persons whom he there speaks of , looked upon the church of rome as a meer synagogue of satan and no true church ; and all the offices and ceremonies of it to be so defiled , that no use could be made of them ; and on that account they rejected our liturgie and ceremonies as taken from the church of rome . although therefore , saith he , q. elizabeth might suffer such things to be printed in her time , yet b. laud would not allow the reprinting of them ; because q. elizabeth might out of state policy suffer the violent transports of irregular zeal , by reason of her personal quarrels with the pope ; yet now those reasons being over , b. laud would not suffer them to come abroad again . but that this expression cannot be understood of the charge of idolatry , i prove by these arguments . ( . ) pet. heylin himself preaching before k. charles i. and archbishop laud , did in plain terms charge the worship of images with most gross idolatry : as appears by the words cited at large in dr. st.'s general preface . what saith t. g. to this ? r. p. i do not find a particular answer to this , but i suppose he reckons him with those six of whom he saith , that they do not charge the church of rome it self , but the opinions of school divines and abuses in practice . p. d. that cannot be , for pet. heylin goes farther ; saying , that they who observe the manner of their worship of images , with what pilgrimages , processions , offerings , with what affections , prayers , and humble bendings of the body , they have been and are worshipped in the church of rome , might very easily conceive that she was once again relapsed into her ancient paganism . r. p. he saith , they might conceive so ; but he doth not say , they might justly conceive so . p. d. this is very subtle , and like t. g. himself . but i pray observe , p. heylin when he gives an account of the worship of images , saith , when the doctrine , which first began in the schools came to its growth , what fruits could it bear , but most gross idolatry , greater than which , was never known among the gentiles ? mark that for your satisfaction . what fruit could the doctrine bear , and that after it came out of the schools to its growth . and when he saith , they might conceive that rome was once again relapsed into her ancient paganism ; the meaning is , those that saw their worship of images in modern rome , and compared it with what was done in old rome , would see no difference ; the idolatry was so gross in both , that if there were nothing else to make a distinction , a man might easily conceive rome was relapsed into her ancient paganism . r. p. but what other argument have you to prove that p. heylin could not speak this of the charge of idolatry ? p. d. because in his introduction he owns the doctrine of the homilies as to this point of idolatry ; and that the compilers of the homilies were the more earnest in this point of removing or excluding images , the better to wean the people from the sin of idolatry , in which they had been trained up from their very infancy . and after , he adds , the people of this last age , being sufficiently instructed in the unlawfulness of worshipping such painted images , they may be lawfully used in churches , without fear of idolatry . what can this signifie , if he did not take the worship of images to be idolatry ? and therefore he could not look upon this as a heat in the beginning of the reformation ; and which was quite spent in the time of b. laud ; since not only p. heylin , but the arch-bishop himself saith , that the modern church of rome is too like paganism in the worship of images , and driven to scarce intelligible subtilties , in her servants writings that defend it ; and this without any care had of millions of souls unable to understand her subtilties or shun her practice . and in his defence against the charge of the commons , he said , that he had written against the adoration and superstitious use of images as fully as any man whatsoever . what think you now sir ? was this a heat in the beginning of the reformation ; and when men in archbishop lauds time , more duly weighed the consequences of this charge , they grew both cooler and wiser ? what evidence doth t. g. produce for this ? when the very person he produces for it , is so far from it , that he saith the contrary ; and are we not like to meet with very hopeful demonstrations in the scientifical way from him ? but i have one argument yet more , to prove there was no such change as to this matter , in archbishop lauds time ; which is from the convocation , a. d. . wherein no one questions the influence and direction of archbishop laud , and the concurrence of those of his party , as t. g. calls them ; and yet in that very book of pet. heylins , he might have seen that canon , wherein they acknowledge the idolatry of the mass ; and t. g. could not pretend any ignorance of this ; for dr. st. had quoted this very canon to this purpose , to shew that this was the sense of archbishops , bishops and clergy in convocation so lately ; and so long after the first heats of the reformation . but what answer doth t. g. give to this , which is so material a testimony , and so destructive to all he saith , upon this matter ? r. p. i do not remember he takes notice of it ; but if you please i will look , for i have his book about me . p. d. not take notice of it ? it is impossible . what! doth he pretend to answer , and pass by the plainest and strongest arguments , as if they had never been brought ? this is a very satisfactory way of answering , and becoming the ingenuity of t. g. : but i pray sir look again , i am afraid you wrong him . i suppose you never read dr. st.'s books , but only the answers to them , and then i do not wonder you applaud the answers , if they leave out the hardest arguments . r. p. you have a little startled me with this omission ; i have turned over all the leaves which relate to this matter very carefully , and i cannot find one word about it : surely it was an involuntary omission . p. d. how could that be involuntary , when it was produced and urged with great force , to shew that this was no puritanical charge ; no heat at the beginning of the reformation ; no private opinion of particular persons , but the sense of our whole church representative even in a. d. . r. p. i confess , i know not what to say more for him , but that it was an omission . p.d. no sir , that is not all ; for there is a fault of commission too ; for he doth not only leave out this , but he advances an hypothesis which he might easily see the falshood of , from this single testimony ; viz. that the charge of idolatry was only a heat of the beginning of the reformation , which was disowned in the time of k. charles and archbishop laud , when at the same time he could not but see the plainest evidence to the contrary by the convocation of a. d. . is your cause to be supported only by such tricks as these ? r. p. you are too like dr. st. whom t. g. charges with being too tragical upon such slight occasions ; and flinging and laying about him unreasonably for a thing of nothing ; as when t. g. mistook robert abbot for george . p. d. call you this a thing of nothing ? methinks it is rather making nothing of a very substantial thing . as to the other mistake , i suppose we shall hear of it ere long . i pray let us proceed in order . r. p. dr. st.'s third argument is from the rubrick at the end of the communion ; the words are these , whereas it is ordained in this office , for the administration of the lords supper ; that the communicants should receive the same kneeling . f.c. hold there i pray ; what ! receive the communion kneeling ! give me leave to come in now ; for i perceive you are hard pressed , and we ought to give friendly assistance to one another against these church of england-men ; and therefore i will prove them guilty of idolatry in receiving the sacrament kneeling . p. d. this will be a digression , but i alwayes owe so much service to the church of england , as to be ready to defend it from so unjust a charge ; therefore to your business . f. c. mr. case in his sermon before the long parliament at a general fast , on such a day saith thus — p. d. i pray sir speak to the point , i am not now at leisure to hear mr. cases sermon repeated . f. c. i hope you will not interrupt me . p. d. not , when you speak to the business : do you understand what idolatry is ? f. c. that is a question to be asked indeed ; as though i did not know what the cup of fornication means , that is idolatry ; and to bow at the name of jesus , and to bow to the altar , that is idolatry ; do you think i do not know what idolatry is ? methinks you should have more reverence for a man of my years , than to ask me such a sawcy question ; have i preached this thirty years and more in the army and in private congregations , and live to be asked such a question by you ? sir i knew what idolatry was before you were born . p. d. then i hope you can tell me , now i am of age to understand it . f. c. why , have i not told you already ? p. d. i pray sir let us talk calmly , and understand one another , which we shall never do unless we agree what is idolatry . i pray give me the definition of it . f. c. the definition ! when i was a young man as you are , i had as many definitions in my head as any body ; but we that are upon constant duties of another nature cannot trouble our heads with definitions or such idle notions . but alas we grow old ; and such things are soon forgotten . i remember in my younger dayes i read bucanus , polanus , and amesius ; nay , there was not a good systeme of orthodox divinity to be had , but i read it , and noted it ; but i lost my notes in the time of the wars , and could never recover them . p. d. this is a little off from our business ; i hope you are better at application of the point than at explication of it . what is it in the church of england you do charge with idolatry ? f. c. kneeling at the sacrament . p. d. for what reason ? f. c. stay a little : i thought i had my arguments at my fingers ends ; but see how strangely good things slip out of our memories ! but now i remember , i have some short notes about me which i took out of mr. gillespie's idolatry of the english popish ceremonies ; and let me tell you , he was a mighty man in his dayes against the church of england , and this book of his did great execution upon the bishops in scotland . i can remember , how much it affected the brethren in england , and how we compared him to one of davids worthies that killed the giants of the philistins . p. d. sir , at this rate of talking it will be night before you come to the question , methinks you seem to have nothing to say against us of the church of england . f. c. i nothing to say against you ! who ever heard me , without having something to say against you ? i tell you sir , i look upon your church as the younger sister to the whore of babylon : never a barrel the better herring ; only we can have liberty of conscience with one , and not with the other . it is all one to me to bow to an image , and to bow to the altar ; to worship images , and to kneel at the sacrament . p. d. i am in hopes you are now coming to the point , i pray keep there without any farther rambling . f. c. call you this rambling ? you know amesius saith , even in controverted points , much respect ought to be had to the experience of gods people ; i tell you , i have found it thus with me , and you ought rather to hear me teach you , than dispute with me . p. d. all this shall not serve ; i must have your arguments since you urge me thus . f. c. why look ye now , d' ye see how petulant and malapert these divines of the church of england are . but since nothing will satisfie you , but arguing , i have an argument ready for you will do your business . to worship the bread is idolatry ; but to kneel at the sacrament is to worship the bread. ergo. p. d. i am glad to find you come to any kind of reasoning . i deny , that in kneeling at the sacrament , we do worship the bread ; for our church expresly declares the contrary in this rubrick . f. c. what do i care for your church or her rubricks ? i say you do worship the bread and prove it too . that which you kneel before and look towards , when you worship , you do give the worship to : but you kneel before and look towards the bread when you worship . ergo. p. d. i begin to be afraid of you now ; for you do not only prove by this argument kneeling at the sacrament , but reading the common prayer to be idolatry ; for if that which we kneel before and look towards when we worship , must be the object of our worship , it is plain we must indeed make an idol of the common prayer ; for every time we read it we kneel before it and looks towards it when we worship . f. c. look you to that , i alwayes took the common prayer for an idol , but i did not think , i had proved it now . p. d. i shall endeavour to undeceive you in this matter . since we are not pure spirits , but must worship god with our bodies , by kneeling and looking towards something in our acts of worship ; we must not determine that to be the object of our worship which our bodies are bended towards , or we look upon in our worship , unless there be some other reason for it ; for then idolatry would be necessary and unavoidable . for we cannot kneel with our eyes open , but we must look upon some creature , which according to your way of arguing , must be the object of our worship . i pray sir , without being angry , give me leave to ask you , whether a man kneeling in the fields and praying with his eyes lifted up to heaven be an idolater or not ? f. c. i think not . p. d. yet he kneels towards some creature , and looks upon some creature when he worships ; therefore you must prove by some other way , that we do make the bread the object of our worship . but this we utterly deny ; and say the doing it is idolatry and to be abhorred of all faithful christians . and will you make us worship it , whether we will or no ? f. c. but you use the same postures which the papists do , and yet you charge them with idolatry ? p. d. because this is a thing many of you stumble at , i will make the difference of our case , and theirs plain to you . in all moral acts we are to have a great great regard to their circumstances , from whence they take a different denomination . he that kills a man by accident , and he that kills a man out of malice , do the very same thing as to the substance of the act ; yet no man will say it is the same act upon a moral consideration . we kneel , and the papists kneel : but we declare when we kneel , we intend no adoration to the elements : but the papists cannot deny that they do give proper adoration to that which is before them ; which we say is bread , and they say , the body of christ under the species of bread ; and yet not meerly to the invisible body of christ , but taking the species of bread as united to that body of christ , and so directing their worship to these two together as the proper objects of divine adoration . and to make this evident to you , their adoration is performed at the elevation of the host ; and at the carrying it about in processions , and at the exposing it on their altars ; and not meerly in the participation of it . whence it is observable , that the church of rome doth not strictly require kneeling at the participation , which it would do , if it looked on the kneeling at receiving as a proper act of adoration . the rubricks of the mass , do not , that i can find , require the priest to kneel in the act of receiving ; and the pope when he celebrates , receives sitting . espencaeus saith , in the church of lions , many of the people did not receive kneeling ; and upon complaint made about it , they were by the advice of two cardinals left to their old custome . and i wonder your brethren have not taken notice of the difference of kneeling at the elevation of the host , and in the act of receiving it ; the one was required by the constitution of honorius , and was intended for an act of adoration to the host : the other was derived from the ancient church , which although it did not alwayes use the same posture of adoration that we do ; yet it is sufficient for our purpose , if they received the sacrament in the same posture in which they worshipped god. and this i could easily prove , if this were a place or season for it . f. c. well sir , i do not love disputing ; i pray go on with your former adversary . r. p. sir , i thank you for the diversion you have given us , if you please i will now return to the place where we left ; i was about to tell you the answer t. g. gives to dr. st.'s third argument from the rubrick at the end of the communion . the words are , it is here declared that by kneeling no adoration is intended or ought to be done , either unto the sacramental bread or wine , there bodily received , or unto any corporal presence of christs natural flesh and blood. for the sacramental bread and wine remain still in their very natural substances , and therefore may not be adored , for that were idolatry to be abhorred of all faithful christians ; and the natural body and blood of christ are in heaven ; and not here , it being against the truth of christs natural body to be at one time in more places than one . about which dr. st. charges t. g. first with ignorance in saying , it was not yet above a douzen years since it was inserted into the communion book ; whereas he might have found it above a hundred years before in the liturgie of edw. . to which t. g. answers , that the various fate of this rubrick , first in not being annexed till the second liturgie of edw. . and being cast out again in the year . and then admitted again almost a hundred years after , is no eviction to him , that the charge of idolatry is the dogmatical doctrine of the church of england . p. d. if this were all the declaration our church had made of her sense , and the intention of this rubrick were only to declare this point of idolatry , there were some probability in what t. g. suggests . but i have shewed already , how fully our church hath declared her sense about romish idolatry by other wayes ; and the design of this rubrick was not to express her sense of idolatry , so much as to give satisfaction to those who scrupled the lawfulness of kneeling . for which cause it was first put in , and afterwards not thought necessary to be continued , when persons were better satisfied about the intention of our church . but when after long disuse and violent prejudices the dissenters were grown unacquainted with the design and intention of our church , there was the same reason for inserting it again , which held at first for putting it in . and what now hath t. g. gained by this observation ? if it had been , as he imagined , what he had gotten in one point , he had lost in another : for then it would appear , that there was no such heat in the beginning of q. elizabeths dayes , if they were willing to leave out such a declaration of the idolatry of the church of rome , at that time when q. elizabeths title was the most disputed at rome ; so that from hence appears the vanity of t. g.'s former observation , and how far they were from taking things into our liturgie out of spite to the pope ; nay , so far were they from this , that in the first year of q. elizabeth , that petition in the letany was left out , which had been inserted by henry . and continued in both liturgies of edw. . from the tyranny of the bishop of rome , and all his detestable enormities , good lord — and this he might have found in the same historian . and was not the title of head of the church taken by her father and brother so qualified and explained then , as might prevent any occasion of quarreling at it by the most captious persons ? do these passages look like doing things on purpose to provoke and exasperate , and out of pure spite to the pope , or like putting in things on purpose to heighten the differences , when t. g. himself confesses , they left out this rubrick , and it is evident they did leave out some of the most provoking expressions ? r. p. i see you cannot bear the charge of intemperate heat on the beginning of the reformation . p. d. i cannot bear such an unreasonable and unjust imputation as this is ; and i have a particular esteem for the wisdom , learning and piety which was shewed in the ecclesiastical part of our reformation . but how doth t. g. take off the charge of idolatry in this rubrick ? r. p. he saith , he takes the meaning of it not to be , the denying adoration to be due in regard of christs body being present spiritually , but truly in the sacrament ; but only that no adoration ought to be done to any corporal presence of christs natural flesh and blood , as the word corporal is taken to signifie the natural manner of a bodies being present . for which he gives these reasons , ( . ) because those words in the second liturgie of edw. . no adoration ought to be done to any real or essential being of christs natural flesh and blood , are now changed [ into any corporal presence of christ natural flesh and blood . ] ( . ) because the protestant divines do yield the real presence of christs body , for which he quotes bishop taylor and bishop cosins ; and he desires dr. st. so to explain these words , as not to undermine the constant doctrine of the church of england concerning the real presence , and leave us nothing but pure zuinglianism in the place of it . p. d. i am so much his friend , that at this time i will undertake this task for him . first , we must consider the words of the rubrick . ( . ) how this sense of it can be reconciled with the real presence as owned by the church of england . ( . ) for the meaning of the rubrick . we are to consider that the rubrick denies adoration to be intended , either unto the sacramental bread and wine , or unto any corporal presence of christs natural flesh and blood . and after , it gives two distinct reasons for denying adoration to either of these . . to the sacramental bread and wine , for this reason , because they remain still in their very natural substances , and therefore may not be adored , for that were idolatry to be abhorred of all faithful christians . . to the corporal presence of christs natural flesh and blood ; because the natural body and blood of our saviour christ are in heaven , and not here , it being against the truth of christs natural body , to be at one time in more places than one . you see , here are two plainly distinct reasons given for denying adoration to the elements , and to the natural body of christ. the former is said to be idolatry ; the latter to be absurd and unreasonable , it being repugnant to the truth of christs body to be in more places than one at one time . so that the sense of the rubrick lyes in these two propositions . . that it is idolatry to give adoration to the elements remaining in their natural substances . . that it is absurd to believe christs natural body to be present , because then it must be in more places than one , which is repugnant to the truth of a body . these things to my apprehension are the plain and natural sense of this rubrick . r. p. but we do not give adoration to the sacramental elements , but to the body of christ. p. d. i do believe i can prove that you give adoration to the sacramental elements , as they make up one entire object of adoration with the body of christ ; but that is not my present business ; which is to shew the sense of our church , which lyes in these particulars . . that the sacramental elements do remain in their natural substances after consecration . . that , to adore them so remaining is idolatry , and to be abhorred of all faithful christians . no one questions the former to be the sense of our church ; the only question lyes in the later , whether that be idolatry or no ? it is no question , that to give divine adoration to any creature is idolatry ; and it is so acknowledged on all sides ; the only question then can be , whether the substance of bread and wine be a creature or not ? and this is no question with any man in his wits : therefore to give adoration to the substance of bread and wine is idolatry . no demonstration in euclid is plainer than this . r. p. but i tell you , we do not worship the creature , but the body of christ. p. d. i tell you again , if there be a creature you do worship it , for you give adoration to what is before you , be it what it will ; if it be a creature you adore it . r. p. but we say , it is not a creature we worship . p. d. do not you give adoration to that which is consecrated , whether it remains a creature or not after consecration ? at the elevation of the host , at the carrying it about , at the exposing of it on the altar , you worship that which was consecrated do you not ? r. p. we worship that which was bread before consecration , but after , is no longer so but the body of christ. p. d. but if it should remain bread after consecration , what do ye adore then ? is it not the substance of the bread ? r. p. yes , but we believe it is not the bread . p. d. that is not the question , what you believe ; for they that believed god to be the soul of the world , worshipped the parts of it upon a supposition , which if it had been true would have justified their worship , every jot as well as yours can do you , and yet they were gross idolaters for all that . nay , i will say more to you , there never were idolaters in the world , that did not proceed upon a false supposition , and it may be not so unreasonable as yours . this cannot therefore excuse you , if your supposition proves false ; as no doubt it is ; that the substance of the bread doth not remain after consecration . but i now ask you what your adoration is , in the opinion of those persons who do firmly believe the sacramental elements to remain in their natural substances . is it not the giving divine worship to a creature ? and is not the giving divine worship to a creature idolatry ? so that according to the sense of our church the worship of the host must be idolatry . r. p. but what have you got by all this ? for we confess our selves , that if the substance of bread and wine do remain after consecration we are as great idolaters as they that worship a red cloath . p. d. upon my word , you had need then to be well assured , that the substance of bread and wine do not remain ; and yet i must tell you , we can be certain of nothing in the world , if we are not certain that the substance of bread and wine do remain after consecration . for if we are certain of nothing by our senses , but of the outward accidents ( which is all your best men do say in this case ) we cannot be certain of any visible substance in the world , for no bodily substance can be discerned , but by our senses ; and so all foundation of certainty by sense is destroyed . nay , farther , it takes away all certainty by reason , for it confounds the clearest maxims of it , by overthrowing all mathematical proportions of great and small , whole and parts ; by destroying all notions of distance and place ; by jumbling the notions of body and spirit . and lastly , it takes away all certainty by revelation , which can never come to us , but upon the supposition of the certainty of sense and reason . r. p. o sir , i see what you would be at ; you would fain draw me into a dispute about transubstantiation , upon principles of reason ; i beg your pardon sir. this is a matter of faith , and must be stoutly believed , or else we are gone . no more of this sir , to your business of idolatry i pray . p. d. i was only giving you some caution by the by , how much you are concerned to look about you ; but since you are resolved to shut your eyes , i return to the sense of our church about the idolatry of the mass ; and it follows necessarily from our former discourse , that since our church believes the substance of the elements do remain , and that your worship doth really fix upon that substance , whatever your intentions be , it is really idolatry . r. p. however this only proves it to be material idolatry , and not formal . p. d. i have often heard of this distinction , but i could never be satisfied with it : for what is material and formal idolatry ? r. p. material idolatry i take to be mistaken worship ; i. e. i do give divine worship to a false object , but i do not intend to give it to a false object of worship , but to a true one . p. d. then formal idolatry must be giving divine worship to a false object of worship , knowing it to be a false object . and where are there any such idolaters to be found in the world ? did not the heathens believe that to be god which they worshipped ? and is not god a true object of worship ? only they mistook that to be god which was not ▪ and so were only material idolaters ; even those that worshipped their images for gods , were only mistaken ; for they had a good intention only to worship god , but they unhappily took their images for gods. and i must needs say , they who took the sun , moon and stars for gods , and worshipped them as such , were very excusable in comparison of those who take a piece of bread for god , or that which appears like it . r. p. you are very severe methinks ; but do you think there is no difference among idolaters ? p. d. yes , i tell you there is , but not much to your comfort . the grosser mens erour is , the more means to convince men of it , the more wilful their blindness and continuance in it , the more culpable they are in their idolatry , and consequently the less excusable . r. p. but may not a man innocently mistake ? as if in the dark , a child should ask blessing of one that is not his father , would his father have reason to be angry with him ? p. d. not for once , or if it were in the dark ; but if he should see him every day go very formally to a joyn'd stool in the hall , or to a brown loaf in the buttery , and there very solemnly down upon his knees to them , and beg their blessing ; tell me what you think the father would say , to such a mistake ? would he excuse him , saying , alas poor child , he intended all this to me , only he mistook the brown loaf or a joyn'd stool for me ! r. p. forbear such comparisons ; for we have divine revelation , this is my body ; and we believe his word against all you can say in this matter . p. d. but what will you say , if by the confession of many of the best and most learned of your own divines , you have not divine revelation for it ; and that those words cannot prove that the substance of bread doth not remain after consecration , which is the thing we now enquire after : and if it were not to go off from our present business , i would undertake to prove this evidently to you . r. p. however we have the authority of our church for it . p. d. you had as good say , you are resolved to believe it ; for the authority of your church can never perswade any man that is not . r. p. when you are gotten to this point of transubstantiation , it is hard to get you off . it is the sore place of our church , and you are like flyes in summer , alwayes busie about it . i pray return to your rubrick , for you seem to have forgotten it . p. d. no , i have been pursuing it hitherto . r. p. but what say you to t. g.'s reasons , why this must be understood of a corporeal presence of christs natural body , because you else overthrow the doctrine of a real presence which hath been accounted the doctrine of the church of england . p. d. to this i answer , ( . ) the rubrick saith expresly , that it is against the truth of christs natural body to be at one time in more places than one . it doth not say against the corporeal presence of his natural body , but the truth of it ; from whence it follows , that our church believes the true natural body of christ , which was born of the virgin , suffered on the cross , and ascended into heaven , can be but in one place ; which is declared in the foregoing words , and the natural body and blood of our saviour christ are in heaven and not here : i. e. in heaven exclusively from being in the sacrament . which are not true , if the same natural body of christ could be at the same time in heaven and in the host. r. p. how then can your divines hold a real presence of christs body , as t. g. saith they do ? p. d. you had heard if you had staid till i came to my second answer , which is , that notwithstanding this , our church doth hold , that after consecration , the elements do become the body and blood of christ , and so there is a real presence of christs body ; but not of his natural , but of a mystical body . i will endeavour to make this out to you , because you look strangely upon me , as if i were big of some mighty paradox . when paschasius radbertus did first broach the modern doctrine of the roman church about the same body of christ being in the sacrament , which was born of the b. virgin , in the western church , he met with great opposition therein from the most learned divines of that age ; among the rest , there lived then in the court of carolus calvus a man very eminent for his learning , called joh. scotus , or erigena . this man at the request of carolus calvus delivered his opinion directly contrary to paschasius ; for whereas he asserted , that the very same body of christ which was born of the b. virgin , was invisibly present under the accidents of bread and wine , scotus denyed , that the elements were in any real sense after consecration the body and blood of christ , the sacrament being only a bare commemoration , or figurative representation of the body and blood of christ. so hincmarus who lived in that age delivers his opinion ; which was afterwards taken up by berengarius , as appears by lanfrank's answer to him . and ascelinus in his epistle to berengarius shews that joh. scotus out of opposition to paschasius , set himself to prove from the fathers , that what was consecrated on the altar was not truly and really the body and blood of christ. these two opposite doctrines being thus dispersed , and a schism being likely to break out upon it , as appears both by ratramnus , and the anonymous authour , published by cellotius , ( and extant in ms in the cotton library ) carolus calvus sends to ratramnus ( an eminent divine of that age , being imployed by the gallican church to defend the latins against the greeks ) to know his judgement in this matter . he , ( who is better known by the name of bertram ) gives , in his preface , an account to his prince of both these opinions , and rejects them both , as against the sense of the fathers and doctrine of the church . in the first part of his book , he disputes against scotus who would allow no mysterie , and in the second against paschasius who contended that the same body of christ was in the sacrament , which was born of the b. virgin : this , he saith , was the state of the second question , whether that very body of christ which sits at the right hand of god , be re●eived by believers in the sacramental mysterie ? and he proves the negative at large from the testimonies of the fathers ; shewing , that they did put a difference between that body of christ which was born of the virgin , and suffered on the cross , and that true but mystical body of christ on the altar ; and so , from the testimonies of s. ambrose , s. augustine , s. hierom , fulgentius ; from the scriptures ; and from the offices of the church , he concludes point-blank against paschasius , that it was not the same body of christ in the sacrament which was born of the b. virgin. but then against the opinion of scotus , he delivers his mind fully in answer to the first question , saying , if there were nothing in the sacrament but what appeared to the senses , it was unfitly called a mysterie ; and there would be no exercise for faith ; no change at all wrought in the elements ; the sacrament would fall short of baptism and the manna in the wilderness : and lastly , to what purpose did christ promise his flesh to be the food of his people , which being not to be understood carnally and literally must have a spiritual signification ; so that , though as to their outward appearance the sacramental elements are figures , yet according to the invisible power and efficacy they are the body and blood of christ. and this he shews , to have been the sense of the fathers and christian church . this opinion of ratramnus , paschasius in his epistle to frudegardus , calls the doctrine of those who deny the presence of christs flesh in the sacrament ; but do hold an invisible power and efficacy in and with the elements ; because , say they , there is no body but what is visible and palpable . and whoever will read that epistle of paschasius will find the expressions , he answers , the very same that yet occur in the book of bertram . of the same opinion with ratramnus in this matter , was rabanus maurus , the greatest divine accounted of his age , who wrote his epistle to egilo against them , who had lately broached that doctrine ( mark that ) that the body of christ in the sacrament , was the very same which was born of the b. virgin , and suffered on the cross and rose from the dead . and this appears from his epistle to heribaldus still extant ; wherein he saith , he declared in what sense the sacrament was the body of christ. besides , the anonymus authour published by cellotius , ( the only person about that time who appeared in behalf of the doctrine of paschasius , and very inconsiderable in comparison of his adversaries ) confesseth the opposition made to paschasius by rabanus and ratramnus , and endeavours to excuse his simplicity in asserting that the same flesh of christ was upon the altar , which was born of the virgin , by a new and extravagant supposition of the sacrament being the medium of uniting two real bodies of christ ; viz. of his flesh and of his church , and therefore that must be a real body of christ too ; which is so remote from justifying paschasius his doctrine , that cellotius himself is ashamed of him . this same doctrine of rabanus and ratramnus is expresly owned by the saxon homilies , which deny the sacrament to be a meer commemoration according to the opinion of joh. erigena , but say that after consecration the bread becomes the body of christ after a spiritual and mystical manner ; and in the saxon code of canons it is expresly determined , not to be that body of christ which suffered on the cross. and this i assert to be the very same doctrine which the church of england embraced upon the reformation ; as most consonant to scripture and the fathers ; which although it doth declare against the natural body of christ , being in more places than one , even that body of christ which is in heaven , yet in the articles it declares , that the body of christ is given , taken and eaten , so that to the faithful receivers the bread consecrated and broken becomes the communion of the body of christ , and the cup of blessing the communion of the blood of christ. and so in the catechism , it is said , that the body and blood of christ are verily and indeed taken of the faithful in the lords supper ; i. e. that after consecration such a divine power and efficacy doth accompany the holy sacrament as makes the elements to become the spiritual and mystical body of christ ; as the church is really but mystically the body of christ , because of his spirit dwelling in them . so the apology of our church saith , that in the lords supper there is truly exhibited the body and blood of christ , because that is the proper food of our souls , as bread and wine tends to the nourishment of our bodiess and if the time would permit , i could not only more largely prove this to be the sense of our church , but that it is the true and genuine sense of the fathers both of the greek and latine church . and thus i hope , i have done that which t. g. thought so impossible a thing , viz. to explain this rubrick , so as not to undermine the doctrine of the real presence asserted by the church of england , nor to leave nothing but pure zuinglianism in the place of it . r. p. i was afraid of a paradox , and it appears , not without reason , for i never met with any one yet who explained the doctrine of bertram and the church of england after this manner ; and all that attempted it talked so in the clouds , that transubstantiation it self did not seem more hard to understand : but i remember pet. de marca hath proved , that the book of bertram was the same which was written by joh. scotus , and therefore your hypothesis is utterly overthrown . p. d. i have read and considered that faint attempt of that great man , which seemed to be designed for no other end but to make us believe that bertrams book was burned for heretical at the synod of vercelles ; but if any one will impartially consider the book of bertram and compare it with the account given of the opinion of joh. scotus by the writers against berengarius , they will find de marca's opinion without the least colour of probability . r. p. but card. perron , mauguin , cellotius and arnaud all say , that bertram in the first part disputes against the stercoranists , who were a sort of hereticks , who held that the body of christ in the eucharist was passible , corruptible and digestible , and in all things just as the bread appeared to our senses ; and asserted , that all the accidents of the bread were founded hypostatically in the body of christ , and not to have any proper subsistence of their own . p. d. these were a notable sort of hereticks , if they could be found ; but it appears by the enemies of berengarius that this opprobrious name was fixed by them on all those who asserted the substance of the bread to remain after consecration ; and it would be very strange if bertram should confute that which himself asserts ; for he saith , the sacramental elements do pass into the nourishment of our bodies . but if any were lyable to this accusation , it must be paschasius ; if pet. de marca's observation of him be true , that he held both substance and quantity of the bread and wine to be turned into the body of christ ; from whence it follows , that must be the subject of all those accidents which were in the bread before ; which is the very sink of stercoranism . nay , i am very much deceived , if pope nicholas . in the recantation prescribed to berengarius did not fall into the filth of it far more than rabanus or heribaldus ; for he asserts therein , that the body of christ is truly and sensibly handled and broken by the hands of priests and ground by the teeth of believers . but what place could be fitter for this heresie , than the sedes stercoraria ? and guitmundus striving to help pope nicholas and his council out , falls into the same heresie himself : for he shews that christs body may be handled and chewed in the sacrament ; if so , it must be the subject of the accidents of the bread and wine . which according to perron and his followers is plain stercor●nism . r. p. but do not you fall into another heresie , viz. of impanation ? p. d. a man had need look to his words , when heresies are so common , and buz so about a mans ears . and some think they confute a man with a vengeance , if they can find out some heresie with a hard name to fasten upon him . but if you did know wherein the heresie of impanation lay , you would never charge this doctrine of our church with it . for i find two distinct wayes of impanation , and this doctrine is lyable to neither of them . . by union of the bread to the body of christ , and by that to the divinity , which was the way of joh. parisiensis . . by an immediate conjunction of the divine nature to the bread ; not meerly by divine efficacy and power , but by an hypostatical vnion : which is the opinion not without ground , attributed to rupertus tuitiensis ; and is lyable to this great absurdity , that all that befals the bread may be attributed to the person of christ , which bellarmine saith , it is blasphemy to imagine . and then it might be said , that the bread is god , that the word is made bread , and that god is both bread and wine . but all which the doctrine of our church implyes is only a real presence of christs invisible power and grace so in and with the elements , as by the faithful receiving of them to convey spiritual and real effects to the souls of men : as the bodies assumed by angels might be called their bodies , while they assumed them ; or rather as the church is the body of christ , because of his spirit quickning and enlivening the souls of believers : so the bread and wine after consecration are the real but the spiritual and mystical body of christ. if any one yet thinks , that some at least of our divines have gone farther than this , let them know , it is the doctrine of our church i am to defend , and not of every particular divine in it ; and if any do seem to speak of the presence of the very same body which is in heaven , i desire them in the first place to reconcile that doctrine with this dogmatical assertion at the end of this rubrick ; that it is against the truth of christs natural body , ( not against the corporal presence of it ) to be at one time in more places than one . let men imagine what kind of presence they please of the same body , i only desire to know , whether to be in heaven , and to be in the sacrament , be to be in the same or distinct places ? if the places be distinct , as no doubt heaven and earth are , then our church declares that it is contrary to the truth of christs natural body to be in more places than one at one time . r. p. but cannot god annihilate that cylinder of air between the body of christ in heaven , and the sacrament on the altar , and so make them both to be in one place ? p. d. this is a very idle and extravagant question ; because , if it be granted , it only proves that there is nothing between christs body in heaven , and the host , but it doth not prove the host to be that body of christ ; and withal , since so many thousand hosts are consecrated in a day , you must suppose so much air annihilated as lies between christs body and all those hosts ; but can any man imagine god should annihilate so much air every time a priest consecrates ? and i remember a good saying of cajetan , non est disputandum de divina potentia ubi de sacramentis tractatur ; we must not dispute of gods absolute power about the matter of sacraments ; because these are so often celebrated , that we are to suppose no more than an ordinary power to be imployed about them . and suppose we should grant a thing possible by gods absolute power , he saith , it is folly to assert all that to be in the sacrament which god can do . however , this doth not reach this rubrick , which supposes distinct places , and saith , it is contrary to the truth of christs natural body to be in more places than one at one time . r. p. but may not all this be understood , as t. g. suggests , of the natural manner of a bodies being present in more places than one ; viz. that it is repugnant to the truth of christs natural body to be naturally present or in a corporeal manner in more places than one ; but it may be naturally present but in one place ; i. e. by way of extension or quantity ; but it may be present in more places after another manner ? p. d. i think you have strained for this , and it is your last effort : to which i answer . ( . ) it yields no advantage to t. g. for supposing that some of our divines did hold it possible , that the same body might be present in several places after a different manner , yet how doth it hence follow , that the rubrick doth not charge them who worship the substance of bread and wine with idolatry ? ( . ) supposing the church did fix this charge upon those who worship the body of christ as present , i desire to know whether another kind of presence would excuse from idolatry ? i. e. supposing that to worship christs body as corporeally present be idolatry , it would not be idolatry to worship the very same body as present after another manner ? which is all one , as to ask , whether if it be idolatry to worship a man with his cloaths on , it be likewise idolatry to worship him with his cloaths off ? if it be , the very same body , let the manner of its being present be the same or different , it doth not alter the nature or reason of worship . only of the two , it seems more unreasonable to worship an invisible body than a visible one ; for in a visible body , he that worships is sure of something that he sees , but when he fancies an invisible body present , he fancies something which if it were , must be seen , and yet though he cannot see it , he resolves to worship it . ( . ) it is altogether as unreasonable to believe that a body may be present in several places after a different manner , as after the same manner . for whereever a body is really present , let it be with extension or without , it is so in that place as not to be in another ; i. e. the body of christ being in the host on the altar , is so there , as not to be on the floor , or any other place about it ; for otherwise , it could not be said to be only under the accidents : i then ask , on what account the same body cannot be present in two places at once after the same manner , and yet may be after a different manner ? aquinas saith , it doth imply a contradiction for the same body to be in several places at once after the same manner , i. e. by way of extension or quantity ; because , it is necessary for the same thing to be undivided from it self , but that which is in several places must be divided from it self . but as conink well observes , this argument proves it as impossible for the same body to be in several places after a different manner , for it is never the less divided from it self by being in one place after another manner than in the other : yea it will be more divided , because it will be after two several wayes repugnant to each other . and it is much more easie to conceive that a body should be in two several places after a natural manner , than to be so in one place ; and in another , after such a spiritual manner as is very hard to be understood . it is much more repugnant , saith maeratius , for the same body to be extended and not extended , than to have a double extension . if it be repugnant to the finite nature of a body , to be in more places than one , because then it might be present in all places ; this , saith lugo , will hold against a sacramental presence ; for that comes nearer to a divine immensity for a body to be in more places without quantity , than with it . suarez and gamachaeus say , this comes nearer to ubiquity , because a sacramental presence supposes the body to be whole in every part , which a natural doth not . and they grant , that all the contradictions which follow upon being present in several places after a natural manner , will hold if the one be natural and the other not : i. e. that the same body may be above it self and below it self , within it self and without it self ; and may move with two contrary motions upwards and downwards , forwards and backwards ; it may be hot in one place and cold in another ; it may be alive in one place and dead in another ; and which is the highest contradiction , one would think , by force of this principle , a man may be damned in one place and saved in another . and no less a man than ysambertus hath defended the possibility of this , upon this principle ; for , saith he , a man as in one place may be killed in a mortal sin , and so be damned ; whereas in another place he may have contrition ( and absolution ) and so be saved . but vasquez asks an untoward question , suppose such a man be reduced to one place , whether shall he be saved or damned ? for he cannot then be both ; and there is no more reason he should be put out of the state of grace by the state of sin , than out of the state of sin by the state of grace . such horrible contradictions do men run into rather than let go an absurd hypothesis ; and suarez confesseth , that a sacramental presence , is liable to the same contradictions , because that supposeth a capacity for acts of the mind under it . ( . ) i say , that asserting a body to be present naturally in one place , and spiritually and indivisibly in more , doth involve more contradictions in it , than to be present in several places after a natural manner . for the very manner of a bodies being present indivisibly carries contradictions along with it peculiar to it self . for whereever there is a body , there must be quantity , and whereever there is quantity there must be divisibility ; how then can a divisible body be indivisibly present ? if they say , it is after the manner of a spirit , that doth by no means salve the contradiction ; for how can a body be after the manner of a spirit ? and if it can , how can the notion of body and spirit be differenced from each other ? if actual extension may be separated from a body , why not quantity it self ? why may not divisibility be separated from a line ? and two and two not make actually four , supposing that they retain their intrinsick aptitude to do it ? what becomes of the differences of greater and less , since that which is greater may be contained under the less ; and so the very same thing will be greater or less , greater and not greater than it self ? what notion can we have of distance , since here a body is supposed to have all its organical parts , head , breast , legs and feet ; and yet no local distance between head and feet ? r. p. i see it is a dangerous thing to give you but a hint about transubstantiation ; if you but once take the scent , you run on so fast that it is a very hard matter to take you off . i did not think this rubrick could have held us thus long ; but i see you were resolved to have two or three throws at transubstantiation in passing , though i warned you before about it . p. d. no sir , it was t. g.'s fixing such an absurd sense upon our church , as though she made it idolatry to worship christs body as present after a corporeal manner , and not after another ; which made me insist so long upon this . r. p. what saith my fanatick acquaintance to all this ? what! sleeping ? f. c. only a nod or two ; i hearkened a while , but i found you were about hard and unsavoury notions ; truly it was to me no awakening discourse . r. p. come , come we will keep you waking ; we are now come to the puritan cause . f. c. ay , ay , there is some life in that . r. p. what think you , was robert abbot bishop of salisbury a puritan or not ? f. c. what! a bishop a puritan ! a good one i warrant you : a puritan in lawn sleeves ! a puritan with cross and surplice ! you know well what belongs to a puritan , do you not ? i tell you , there never was a true puritan but abhorred these things with all his heart . what do you tell me of a bishop of salisbury for a puritan ? i say again , if he had been so , he would have taken his lawn sleeves and thrown them into the fire . p. d. but i pray sir , how comes in this discourse about bishop abbot ? r. p. i will tell you ; among other divines produced by dr. st. to prove the charge of idolatry maintained against the church of rome in k. james his time , one was bishop abbot in his answer to bishop . t. g. takes this to be archbishop abbot , and excepts against him as an abettor of the puritan party , and tells from dr. heylin , that on that account it was thought necessary to suspend him from his metropolitical visitation ; dr. st. makes sport with his suspending a bishop of salisbury from metropolitical jurisdiction , and tells what strange things those of the church of rome can do with five words ; and upbraids t. g. with ignorance of our church ; and in truth , is too tragical upon such a slight occasion . now t. g. proves , that it was only a mistake of the person , and not of his quality , although dr. st. saith , that he was never till now suspected for a puritan . p. d. are you sure of that ? r. p. yes , t. g. saith so , more than once . p. d. however it is good to be sure . these are dr. st.'s words . the two first he excepts against , are the two archbishops , whitgift and abbot as puritanically inclined ; but as it unhappily falls out , one of them was never mentioned by me , and the other never till now suspected for a puritan . i pray advise t. g. to read a little more carefully , before he confutes : is it not plain , that he means , archbishop abbot was never mentioned by him , and archbishop whitgift was never till now suspected for a puritan ? it could be no want of understanding in t. g. to make him thus misconstrue his words . r. p. but he proves , he was puritanically inclined , and takes off his testimony . p. d. how doth he prove that ? r. p. from dr. heylin , whose histories serve us to many a good purpose ; for he saith , he was a calvinian though a moderate one ; that he was an enemy to bishop laud in the vniversity , that he commends mr. perkins , and wrote his last book of grace and perseverance of the saints . p. d. very wonderful proofs ! as though many of the stiffest defenders of our church against the puritan party , had not been inclining to calvinism ( as it is called ) in the point of predestination ; especially in that moderate way , wherein r. abbot asserted it ! as though it were not possible , for men to be zealous for our liturgie and ceremonies , if they held the doctrine of election and perseverance ! but we do not want those of the highest order of our church at this day , who are eminent for learning , and piety , and zeal for the church ; who would take it very ill from t. g. upon the account of those opinions , to be thought enemies to the church of england ; as no doubt the puritans were . but t. g. runs on with this perpetual mistake ; when his own author dr. heylin hath told him whom he means by puritans , viz. the nonconformists ; for speaking of dr. buckeridge bishop lauds tutor , he saith , that he opposed the papists on one hand , and on the other the puritans or non-conformists . these are very pittiful shifts to overthrow bishop abbots testimony , when dr. heylin himself saith of him , he was so moderate a calvinian that he incurred the high displeasure of the supralapsarians , who had till then carried all before them . but what saith t. g. to those whom he yields not to have been puritanically inclined , and yet charged the church of rome with idolatry ? r. p. he saith , they do not impugn the doctrine it self of the church of rome , or the practice conformable to that doctrine , but such things as they conceived to be great abuses in the practice of it . p. d. that will be best tryed by particulars ; the first of these is no less a person than k. james , who calls the worship of images , damnable idolatry ; and dr. st. shews that k. james takes off their distinctions and evasions ; and saith , let them therefore that maintain this doctrine answer it to christ at the latter day when he shall accuse them of idolatry . and then i doubt if he will be paid with such sophistical distinctions . is all this , saith d. st. nothing but to charge them with such practices which they detest ? doth he not mention their doctrine , and their distinctions ? did not k. james understand what he said , and what they did ? what saith t. g. to this ? r. p. not a word that i can find . p. d. let us then see what he doth take notice of . r. p. a very notable thing i assure you . he saith , they only found fault with some abuses committed in our church , and did not think men by vertue of the terms of her communion forced either to hypocrisie or idolatry : as dr. st. doth : so that it is not the doctrine of the church of rome , if truly stated out of the decrees of her councils , or practice agreeable to that doctrine , which these divines impeach as idolatrous , but the opinions of some school-divines , or abuses they conceived to be committed in the practice of it . and for this he instanceth in the decree of the council of nice about the worship of images . p. d. who doth not know t. g. to be a man of art ? and to understand the way of fencing in the schools as well as another ? was it not skilfully done in this place to run to the point of images , when we had been so lately upon the idolatry in adoration of the host , as it is declared in our rubrick ? for the constitution of the church of rome is plain to all persons about adoration of the host , at the elevation of it , and carrying it about ; but in the matter of images they endeavour to palliate and disguise their allowed practices as much as may be . i answer therefore on behalf of dr. st. ( . ) that when he speaks of what men are obliged to do by vertue of communion with the church of rome , he speaks of the things strictly required by the rules of that church ; and since our church declares the mass idolatrous , he doth not in the least recede from the sense of our church in the disjunction he useth , either of hypocrisie , or idolatry ; and i have some reason to believe that was the thing he aimed at chiefly , when he spoke of the terms of communion ; because he had often heard of some persons who live in the communion of that church , who being not obliged to make the same professions which ecclesiastical persons are , do content themselves with doing the same external acts which others do ; but with a very different intention ; who look upon transubstantiation , and many other doctrines as foolish and ridiculous , and yet think they may joyn with those who do believe them in all external acts of worship rather than break the peace of the church they live in ; such persons would say they never worshipped the host , and therefore excuse themselves from idolatry , but dr. st. saith , they cannot then excuse themselves from hypocrisie , because they seem to give the same worship which the other doth . ( . ) as to the idolatry committed in the worship of images , we shall consider that in its proper place ; but yet by vertue of communion with the church of rome , all persons are ( . ) bound to declare the worship of images lawful as it is practised in that church . ( . ) to worship images upon occasion o●fered , as in processions , &c. ( . ) to worship the cross as it represents christ with that worship which is proper to his person . that which concerns us now , is to give an account of the judgement of these persons , how far they suppose the church of rome to be guilty of the idolatry committed in it . as to k. james we have seen already how far t. g. is from answering his testimony ; the next is is. casaubon , and he saith , the church of england did affirm the practises of the church of rome to be joyned with great impiety . so that he speaks the sense of our church and not barely his own ; and surely when he wrote by k. james his direction and order , and had so great intimacy with bishop andrews and other learned men of our church , he would declare nothing to be her sense which was contrary to it . and as to his own private opinion , i could tell t. g. somewhat more , viz. that when he was violently set upon by all the wit and industry of card. perron , and disobliged by some persons of his own communion at paris , he set himself seriously to consider the terms of communion in that church , and whether he might with a safe conscience embrace it ; and i have seen in his own hand-writing the reasons which hindred him from it ; and the first of them , was the fear of idolatry , which he saw practised in the worship of images and saints . which is as full a proof as may be , that he did not think any person could embrace the communion of that church without hypocrisie or idolatry as to the worship of images and saints . the third is bishop andrews , who not only charges the church of rome with idolatry ; but he saith , that in their breviaries , hours , and rosaries , they pray directly , absolutely and finally to saints ; and not meerly to the saints to pray to god for them , but give what they pray for themselves : to this t. g. saith , they profess they do no such thing ; as though we were enquiring what they professed , and not what bishop andrews charged them with . if idolatry according to bishop andrews be required in the authorized offices of devotion in their church , how can the members of it be excused either from hyocrisie or idolatry ? the fourth is dr. field , who chargeth the invocation of saints with such superstition and idolatry as cannot be excused : the fifth dr. jackson who saith , the papists give divine honour to images . the sixth archbishop laud , who not only affirms the modern church of rome to be too like to paganism in the adoration of images , but condemns the praying to angels as the idolatry condemned by the council of laodicea ; as dr. st. shewed from his m s. notes upon bellarmine . to these dr. st. added in his general preface , the testimonies of archbishop bancroft , bishop montague , pet. heylin , and mr. thorndike ; which three last were the very persons t. g. did appeal to ; and the last of them did declare that the practice of idolatry was such in the roman church , that no good christian dare trust his soul in the communion of it ; which is all one as to say , they must be guilty of hypocrisie or idolatry . r. p. but t. g. saith , they only reprove some practices as idolatrous , or at least in danger to be such , but dr. st. acknowledges that they excuse the church of rome from idolatry although not all who live in the communion of it . p. d. doth he indeed say so ? or is this another piece of t. g.'s fineness ? his words are these : and although it may be only an excess of charity in some few learned persons to excuse that church from idolatry , although not all who live in the communion of it : and then produces the seventeen testimonies to shew he did not differ from the sense of the church of england , or the eminent defenders of it ever since the reformation ; and do you think that among his testimonies , he would produce any , whom he thought to free the church of rome from idolatry ? no certainly ; but i suppose that clause referred to mr. thorndike and some few others ; and as to mr. thorndike he afterwards produced the passage before mentioned out of some papers written by him a little before his death . what saith t. g. to that ? r. p. not a word more , but i find he makes use of mr. thorndikes name on all occasions , as if he favoured our side against the church of england and dr. st. and the man who manageth the dialogue against him is brought in as one of mr. thorndikes principles . i pray tell me was not he a man in his heart of our church , and only lived in the external communion of yours ? p. d. d. st. hath given a just character of him , when he calls him a man of excellent learning and great piety ; and since so ill use is made of his name in these disputes and such dishonour done to his memory , i shall but do him right , to let you understand what his judgement was of the church of rome : which he delivered in a paper to a lady a little before his death , from whom it came immediately to my hands , and is the same paper dr. st. doth refer to . . the truth of the christian religion , and of the scripture is presupposed to the being of a church , and therefore cannot depend upon the authority of it . . the church of rome maintains the decrees of the present church to be infallible , which is false , and yet concerns the salvation of all that believe it , therefore no man can submit to the authority of it . . the church of rome in s. jeroms time , did not make void the baptism of those sects which did not baptise in the name of the father , the son , and the holy ghost , but that baptism is void and true baptism necessary to salvation . therefore the church of rome may err in matters of salvation . . the church of rome may err in schism , following the wrong cause . if you except only things necessary to salvation to be believed . this shews that infallibility only in things necessary to salvation is not enough . it is destructive to salvation to follow the wrong cause in schism . instance . the schism with the greek church for appeals to rome . for there is evident tradition to the contrary . . the church of rome enjoyns apocryphal scriptures to be esteemed canonical scriptures . but this injunction is contrary to tradition and truth , and concerns the salvation of all that receive it . . the church of rome in s. jeroms time did not receive the epistle to the hebrews for canonical scripture , as now it doth , and as in truth it is , therefore the church of rome may err in declaring the authority of scripture . . the church of rome doth err in teaching that attrition is turned into contrition by submitting to the power of the keys ; but this errour is destructive to the salvation of all that believe it . therefore it may err in matters necessary to salvation . that it is an errour . because of the condition of remission of sins , which is before the being of a church ; and therefore cannot depend on the authority of the church . . the church of rome injoyneth to believe transubstantiation , and to profess that which is false . for there is scripture and tradition for the presence of the body and blood of christ in the eucharist ; but neither scripture , nor tradition for transubstantiation , viz. for abolishing the elements , but the church of rome injoyns to believe it . therefore it enjoyns to believe that for which there is neither tradition nor scripture . witness the fathers that own the elements after consecration . . the council of trent enjoyneth to believe that christ instituted a new passeover to be sacrificed as well as represented , commemorated , and offered in the eucharist , de sacrific . missae , cap. . which is false , for the sacrifice of christs cross is commemorated , represented and offered as ready to be slain in and by the eucharist ; but not slain , and therefore not sacrificed in it and by celebrating it . and therefore when it is said there , c. . quod in missa christus incruentè immolatur , if it be meant properly , it is a contradiction ; for that which hath blood is not sacrificed but by shedding the blood of it ; if figuratively , it signifies no more than that which i have said , that it is represented , commemorated and offered as slain . and therefore all parts agreeing to this , the church of rome requiring more is guilty of the schism , that comes by refusing it . for the propitiation of the sacrifice of the eucharist is the propitiation of christs cross purchased for them that are qualifi'd . . the council of trent commends the mass without the communion , cap. . wherein it erreth , for the communion being the restoring of the covenant of baptism after sin ▪ the want of it without the desire of it is to be lamented not commended , as destructive of the means of salvation . . there is neither scripture nor tradition for praying to saints departed , or any evidence that they hear our prayers . therefore it evidences a carnal hope that god will abate of the covenant of our baptism , which is the condition of our salvation , for their sakes . . to pray to them for those things which only god can give ( as all papists do ) is by the proper sense of their words downright idolatry . if they say their meaning is by a figure only to desire them to procure their requests of god ; how dare any christian trust his soul with that church , which teaches that which must needs be idolatry in all that understand not the figure ? . there is neither scripture nor tradition for worshipping the cross , the images , and reliques of saints , therefore it evidences the same carnal hope , that god will abate of his gospel for such bribes . which is the will-worship of masses , pilgrimages , and indulgences to that purpose . . neither scripture nor tradition is there for the removing any soul out of purgatory unto the beatifical vision before the day of judgement , therefore the same carnal hope is seen in the will-worship of masses , indulgences , pilgrimages and the like for that purpose : and that destructive to the salvation of all that believe that the guilt of their sins is taken away by submitting to the keys before they be contrite ; and the temporal penalty remaining in purgatory paid by these will-worships . . both scripture and tradition condemn the deposing of princes , and acquitting their subjects of their allegiance , and enjoyning them to take arms for them whom the pope substitutes . and this doctrine is not only false , but in my opinion properly heresie , yet practised by so many popes . the church may be divided , that salvation may be had on both sides . instances . the schisms of the popes . the schism of acacius . the schism between the greeks and the latins . i hold the schism for the reformation to be of this kind . but i do not allow salvation to any that shall change having these reasons before him ; though i allow the reformation not to be perfect in some points of less moment , as prayer for the dead , and others . remember alwayes that the popish church of england can never be canonically governed being immediately under the pope . . there is both scripture and tradition for the scriptures and service in a known tongue ; and for the eucharist in both kinds . how then can any christian trust his soul with that church , which hath the conscience to bar him of such helps provided by god ? these are all his own words without addition or alteration . and what think you now of mr. thorndike ? was this man a secret friend to the church of rome do you think ? who saith so plainly , that a man cannot embrace the communion of that church without hazard of his salvation . r. p. i did little think by the use t. g. on all occasions makes of him , that he had been a man of such principles . but i think t. g. had as good have let him alone , as have given occasion for producing such testimonies of the thoughts which a man of his learning and fame had , concerning the church of rome . however , you see , he holds the presence of the body and blood of christ in the eucharist , and can you reconcile this , to what you asserted to be the doctrine of the church of england ? p. d. yes very well . if you compare what he saith here , with what he declares more at large in his book , wherein you may read these remarkable words to this purpose . if it can any way be shewed that the church did ever pray that the flesh and blood might be substituted instead of the elements under the accidents of them , then i am content that this be accounted henceforth the sacramental presence of them in the eucharist . but if the church only pray , that the spirit of god , coming down upon the elements , may make them the body and blood of christ , so that they which receive them may be filled with the grace of his spirit ; then is it not the sense of the catholick church that can oblige any man to believe the abolishing of the elements in their bodily substance ; because supposing that they remain , they may nevertheless come to be the instrument of gods spirit to convey the operation thereof to them that are disposed to receive it , no otherwise than his flesh and blood conveyed the efficacy thereof upon earth : and that i suppose is reason enough to call it the body and blood of christ sacramentally , that is to say as in the sacrament of the eucharist . and in two or three places more he speaks to the same purpose . r. p. hold sir i beseech you ; you have said enough ; you will fall back again to transubstantiation in spite of my heart . p. d. what ? when i only answer a question you asked me ? r. p. enough of mr. thorndike ; unless he were more our friend , than i find he was . i pray what say you to archbishop whitgift ? p. d. hath t. g. perswaded you that he is turned puritan , above seventy years after his death , who never was suspected for it while he was living , nor since till the transforming dayes of t. g. ? r. p. you may jeer as you please , but t. g. tells a notable story of the lambeth articles , and how q. elizabeths black husband was like to have been divorced from her upon them , and how k. james would not receive them into the articles of the church . and all this , as well as many other good things he hath out of one pet. heylin . is the man alive i pray , that we may give him our due thanks for the service he hath done us upon many occasions ? for we have written whole books against the reformation , out of his history of it ; and i find t. g. relyes as much upon him as other good catholicks do on cochlaeus , and surius ; or as he doth at other times on the patronus bonae fidei . p. d. dr. heylin was a man of very good parts and learning , and who did write history pleasantly enough ; but in some things he was too much a party to be an historian , and being deeply concerned in some quarrels himself , all his historical writings about our church do plainly discover which side he espoused : which to me doth not seem to agree with the impartiality of an historian . and if he could but throw dirt on that which he accounted the puritan party , from the beginning of the reformation , he mattered not though the whole reformation suffered by it . but for all this he was far from being a friend either to the church or court of rome ; and next to puritanism , i believe he hated popery most ; so that if he had been alive , and you had gone to thank him for the service he had done you , in all probability you had provoked him to have written as sharply against you as ever he wrote against the puritans but what is all this to archbishop whitgifts being suspected for a puritan ? dares pet. heylin suggest any such thing ? no , he knew him too well : and saith , that by his contrivance the puritan faction was so muzled that they were not able to bark in a long time after . had he then any suspicion of his being puritanically inclined ? and as to the lambeth articles , they only prove that he held those opinions contained in them , and recommended them to the vniversity to suppress the disputes which had been there raised concerning them . and what then ? doth this render him suspected for a puritan at that time ? when many of the greatest anti-puritans were zealous defenders of those opinions . in all q. elizabeth's time and after , the name of puritans , signified the opposers of our government , and the service and orders of our church ; and some have undertaken to name the person who first applyed this name to the asserters of these doctrinal points , towards the latter end of k. james . this is certain , ( which is most material to our purpose ) that when k. charles i. published his declaration to prevent unnecessary disputations about these points , he saith , that they did all agree in the true usual literal meaning of the said articles of our church , and that even in those curious points in which the present differences lye , men of all sorts take the articles of the church of england to be for them , which is an argument again , none of them intend any desertion of the articles established . and which is a certain argument that even at that time no man was charged with disaffection to the church of england meerly on the account of these doctrinal points . r. p. but what was it which archbishop whitgift saith , for t. g. saith , even that will involve him more in the suspicion of puritanism . p. d. his words are these , i do as much mislike the distinction of the papists and the intent of it , as any man doth , neither do i go about to excuse them , from wicked and ( without repentance , and gods singular mercy , ) damnable idolatry . this is enough to dr. st.'s purpose ; and afterwards he saith , he placeth the papists among wicked and damnable idolaters . is not this home do you think ? r. p. but doth not he say , that one kind of idolatry is , when the true god is worshipped by other means and wayes than he hath prescribed or would be worshipped ? and according to dr. st. this is the fundamental principle of those who separate from the church of england , that nothing is lawful in the worship of god , but what he hath expresly commanded : therefore according to dr. st. himself , archbishop whitgift was a puritan . p. d. it is notably argued , i confess ; and thence it follows , if archbishop whitgift had understood the force of his own principle , he must have separated from the church of england . but is it not plain to the common sense of any man that archbishop whitgift writing on behalf of our ceremonies , and against this very principle in t. g. , his words could not bear that meaning , and therefore dr. st. had great reason to say , that his meaning in those words was , against his express command ; as appears by the application of them ? so that either you must make archbishop whitgift so weak a man as to overthrow the design of his whole book , or this must be his meaning which dr. st. assigns . r. p. but dr. st. himself makes the charging papists to be idolaters , a distinctive sign of puritanism . p. d. are you in earnest ? i pray , when and where ? for then i am sure he contradicts himself , for his design is to prove just the contrary . name me the page , i beseech you , that i may judge of it . r. p. why doth he not say , that it is the fundamental principle of puritanism , that nothing is lawful in the worship of god , but what he hath expresly commanded ? p. d. and what then ? r. p. then — hold a little — then — it will not do . p. d. i think not truly . if this be the fundamental principle of puritans , that nothing is lawful in the worship of god but what is commanded , then to charge the church of rome with idolatry is a distinctive sign of puritanism . how many cords are necessary to tye these two together ? ( . ) can no one charge the papists with idolatry , but by vertue of this principle ? i do hold , whatever god hath not forbidden , to be lawful in his worship ; but may not i at the same time , hold some kind of prohibited worship to be idolatry ? i can hardly imagine a man of t. g.'s subtilty could write thus . but that you have the book by you , and tell me so , i could not have believed it . ( . ) those who do hold this principle , do not presently make every thing unlawful to be an idol by vertue of it . for they do not deduce this unlawfulness from the prohibition of idolatry , but from the perfection and sufficiency of the scriptures as a rule of worship , and they say , we must not add thereto , and therefore no humane invention must be used in the worship of god. now judge you whether according to this principle there can be nothing unlawful , but it must be an idol ? r. p. this was an oversight i suppose in him . let it pass . but what makes d. st. vary so much from his old principle in his irenicum , wherein he asserted , that nothing is lawful in the immediate worship of god , but what is commanded , this must come either from a greater light of the spirit , or from the weighty considerations mentioned by the patronus bonae fidei , when , he saith , quicquid cl. stilling-fleet delinitus & occaecatus opimitate & obesitate suorum sacerdotiorum , &c. p. d. for the malicious suggestions of so wretched a calumniator , as the patronus bonae fidei appears to be throughout that book , they are not worth taking notice of by any one that doth not search for dunghils . it is dr. st.'s honour to be reproached by a man who hath made it his business to reproach the best church in christendome , and to undermine all churches , above thirty years ; and yet the ungrateful creature hath in some measure lived upon the revenues of that church himself , which he hath so shamefully reviled ; being in great part supported by the bounty of a very worthy and learned church-man who is nearly related to him . but as to the contradiction charged on dr. st. i begin to suspect t. g. more than ever i did . for doth not dr. st. in that place distinguish between immediate acts and parts of worship , and circumstances belonging to those acts , even in the very words alledged by t. g. ? and doth not he say expresly , that he doth not speak of these , but of the former ? and is not the very same distinction used by bishop andrews , bishop sanderson , and the most zealous defenders of the rites of our church ? why then must he be supposed to have changed his mind as to this principle , when he said no more at that time , than what the most genuine sons of our church have asserted , among whom i do not question bishop andrews and bishop sanderson will be allowed to pass . and they distinguish after the same manner , between the necessary parts of worship , for which they suppose a command necessary , as well as dr. st. : and the accidental and mutable circumstances attending the same for order , comeliness , and edifications sake , which are lawful if not contrary to gods command . and doth not dr. st. say the very same thing ? viz. that in matters of meer decency and order in the church of god , it is enough to make things lawful if they are not forbidden . let us now compare this saying with what he calls the fundamental principle of separation ; that nothing is lawful in the worship of god , but what he hath expresly commanded : and can any thing be more contradictory to this , than what dr. st. layes down as a principle in that very page of his irenicum ? that an express positive command is not necessary to make a thing lawful , but a non-prohibition by a law is sufficient for that . where then lay t. g.'s understanding or ingenuity , when he mentions such a great change in the dr. as to this principle , when he owned the very same principle , even in that book , and that very page , he quotes to the contrary ? t. g. doth presume good catholick readers will take his word without looking farther : and i scarce ever knew a writer who stands more in need of the good opinion of his reader in this kind , than t. g. doth . as i shall make it fully appear , if you hold on this discourse with me ; for i have taken some pains to consider t. g.'s manner of dealing with his adversary . but this is too gross a way of imposing upon the credulity of readers : yet this is their common method of dealing with dr. st. when they intend to write against him ; then , have you dr. st. 's irenicum ? hoping to find matter there to expose him to the hatred of the bishops , and to represent him as unfit to defend the church of england . if this takes not , then they pick sentences and half-sentences from the series of the discourse , and laying these together , cry , look ye here , is this a man fit to defend your church , that so contradicts himself thus , and thus ? when any common understanding by comparing the places , will find them either falsely represented , or easily reconciled . in truth sir , i think you have shewed as little learning , or skill , or ingenuity in answering him , as any one adversary that ever appeared against your church : and especially , when t. g. goes about to prove that he contradicts himself , or the sense of the church of england . r. p. but i pray tell me , if this charge of idolatry were agreeable to the sense of the church of england , why the articles of the church do only reject the romish doctrine concerning worshipping and adoration of images , not as idolatry , but as a fond thing vainly invented and grounded upon no warranty of scripture , but rather repugnant to the word of god ? for , i perceive this sticks much with t. g. and from hence he concludes dr. st. to contradict the sense of it , who is the champion of the church of england . p. d. i perceive t. g. kept this for a parting blow , after which he thought fit to breath a while , having spent so many spirits in this encounter ; but methinks , his arm grows feeble , and although his fury be as great as ever , yet his strength is decayed . and in my mind it doth not become a man of his chivalry , so often to leave his lance , and to run with open mouth upon his adversary , and to bite till his teeth meet . for what mean the unhandsome reflections he makes on all occasions , upon his being the champion of the church of england ; and the church of englands having cause to be ashamed of such a champion ; and of his putting him in mind of his duty as the champion of the church , not to betray the church he pretends to defend ? where doth he ever assume any such title to himself ? or ever entred the lists , but on the account of obedience , or upon great provocation ? the name of champion savours too much of vanity and ostentation , whereas he only shewed how easily the cause could be defended , when his superiours first commanded such a stripling , as he then was , to undertake the defence of it . but i shall set aside these reflections , and come to the point of our articles ; and therein consider , . what t. g. objects . . what dr. st. answered . . which way the sense of the articles is to be interpreted . t. g. looks upon it as a notable observation , that the compilers of the articles ( in which is contained the doctrine of the church of england ) sufficiently insinuate that they could find no such command forbidding the worship of images , when they rejected the adoration of images , not as idolatry , but only as a fond thing vainly invented , nor as repugnant to the plain words of scripture , but as rather repugnant to the word of god ; which qualification of theirs gives us plainly to understand , that they had done their endeavours to find such a command , but could meet with none . to which dr. st. gives this answer , that the force of all he saith lyes upon the words of the english translation , whereas if he had looked on the latin , wherein they give account of their doctrine to foreign churches , this criticism had been lost , the words being immo verbo dei contradicit ; whereby it appears that rather is not used as a term of diminution , but of a more vehement affirmation . and what saith t. g. i pray to this ? r. p. t. g. repeats his own words at large , and then blames the compilers of the articles for want of grammar , if they intend the word rather to affect the words that follow . p. d. but what is all this to the latin articles which dr. st. appealed to , for explication of the english ? and for the love of grammar , let t. g. tell us whether there be not a more vehement affirmation in those words , immo verbo dei contradicit . either t. g. should never have mentioned this more , or have said something more to the purpose . for doth he think our bishops and clergy were not careful that their true sense were set forth in the latin articles ? and their sense being so peremptory herein and contrary to t.g. is there not all the reason in the world to explain the english articles by the latin , since we are sure they had not two meanings ? this is so plain , i am ashamed to say a word more to it . r. p. but t. g. is very pleasant in describing the arguments dr. st. brings to prove the articles to make the worship of images idolatry , because it is called adoration of images , and said to be the romish doctrine about adoration . but after the cat hath plaid with the mouse as long as he thinks fit , leaping and frisking with him in his claws , at last he falls on him with his teeth , and hardly leaves a bone behind him . after he hath muster'd his arguments , and drawn them out in rank and file , and made one charge upon another , for the pleasure of the reader , he then gives him a plain and solid answer ; viz. by the words romish doctrine concerning adoration of images may be understood either the doctrine taught in her schools , which being but the opinions of particular persons , no man is bound to follow , or the doctrine taught in her councils which all those of her communion are bound to submit to . if the doctrine which the church of england chargeth be that which is taught by some of her school divines ( which he takes to be her true meaning ) this is also denyed ( at least by those very divines who teach it ) to be idolatry . if by the romish doctrine be meant the doctrine of councils owned by the church of rome concerning worshipping and adoration of images , then herein she is vindicated from idolatry by eminent divines that have been esteemed true and genuine sons of the church of england . p. d. and doth this mighty effort come to this at last ? what pity it is t. g. had no better a cause , he sets this off so prettily ? and dazels the eyes of his beholders with the dust he raises , so that those who do not narrowly look into his feats of activity , would imagine him still standing , when he is only endeavouring to recover a fall . for . by adoration of images , our church doth not mean that which their school divines call adoration of images , as they distinguish it from veneration of them , but it means all that religious worship which by the allowed doctrine and practice of the roman church is given to images . and this is just the case of the council of francford ( concerning which i hear t. g. saith not one word in his last book , and i commend him for it ) the western bishops condemn adoration of images : very true , saith t. g. and his brethren , but all this was a bare mistake of the nicene council , which never approved adoration of images , but only an inferiour worship ; but dr. st. hath shewed that the francford council knew of this distinction well enough , and notwithstanding their denying it , the western church did not judge that the worship which they gave to images was really adoration whether they called it so or not . just so it is with the church of england , in reference to the church of rome ; this distinguishes adoration from inferiour worship , but our church owns no such distinction , and calls that religious worship which they give to images , adoration ; and supposing it were really so , dr. st. saith , their own divines yield it to be idolatry ; i. e. the church of england calls their worship of images adoration , or giving divine worship to a creature , but their divines do yield this is idolatry , and therefore the church of england doth charge the church of rome with idolatry . but how subtilly had t. g. altered the whole force of the argument ? by taking adoration not in the sense of our church , but of their school-divines , and then telling us , that even those school-divines who teach adoration of images deny it to be idolatry . and whoever expected they should confess themselves guilty ? but what is this , to the sense of the church of england ? where doth it allow such a distinction of divine worship into that which is superiour and inferiour , or that which is proper to god and that which is not ? . by romish doctrine the church of england doth not mean the doctrine of the school-divines ; but the doctrine received and allowed in that church from whence the worship of images is required and practised . such kind of worship i mean , as is justified and defended in common among them , without their school-distinctions ; such worship as was required here in the recantation of the lollards as dr. st. observes , i do swear to god and all his seynts upon this holy gospel , that fro this day forward i shall worship images with praying and offering unto them in the worship of the seynts that they be made after ; such worship as was required here by the constitutions of arundel , a. d. . with processions , genuflections , thurifications , deosculations , oblations , burnings of lights , and pilgrimages which are called acts of adoration ; and this constitution was a part of the canon law of england , which all persons were then bound to observe , or else might be proceeded against as lollards . and this is that which dr. st. insists upon , was the thing condemned by the articles of our church , viz. the worship of images which was required and practised here in england . and what reason have we to run to school-divines for the sense of matters of daily practice , as the worship of images was before the reformation ? and so i conclude , if this be all t. g. in so long time hath had to say about this matter , ( viz. above four years since dr. st.'s general preface was published ) he hath very unreasonably charged him with dissenting from the church of england in this charge of idolatry . f. c. i hope you have done for this time ; and if you catch me again losing so much time in hearing fending and proving about the church of england ; i will give you leave to call me fanatick . if you have any thing more of this kind , talk it out your selves if you please . i expected to have had some comfortable talk with my old friend about liberty of conscience ; and how many precious hours have you lost about the church of england ? this will never do our business . if you please , my good friend , you and i will meet in private at such a place to morrow . p. d. nay sir , let me not be excluded your company , since i am so accidentally faln into it ; and have but patience to hear us talk out these matters , since we have begun them . for i hear your friends friend t. g. hath said some things wherein your cause is concerned . f. c. i do intend for the auction again to morrow , and if i can easily get the books i look for , i will bear you company ; otherwise go on with your discourse , and i will come to you when i have made my adventures . it is possible i may meet with some of them to night ; for i hear them at rutherford , and gillespee , and our divinity follows just after the scotch . which was well observed by the catalogue-maker , for the covenant bound us to reform according to the pattern of the church of scotland . r. p. you intend then to meet here again to morrow at three of clock , to pursue our conferences about these matters . i will not fail you ; and so adieu . the end of the first conference . the second conference , about the consequences of the charge of idolatry . p. d. how long have you been at the auction ? r. p. above an hour ; for i had a great desire to see how the books were sold at them . p. d. and i pray what do you observe concerning the buying of books here ? r. p. i find it a pretty humoursome thing : and sometimes men give greater rates for books , than they may buy them for in the shops ; and yet generally , books are sold dearer here , than in any part of europe . p. d. what reason can you give for that ? r. p. one is , that the scholars of england allow themselves greater liberty in learning than they do in foreign parts , where commonly only one kind of learning is in esteem in a place ; but here a man that intends a library , buys all sorts of books ; and that makes your traders in books bring over from all parts , and of all kinds , and when they have them in their hands , they make the buyers pay for their curiosity . in italy it is a rare thing to meet with a greek book in the shops ; in spain you see nothing almost besides prayer-books , novels , and school-divinity . at antwerp and lions , school-divinity and lives of the saints are most sold. at paris indeed there is greater variety . but we observe it abroad , that in the best catholick countreys , learning is in least esteem ; as in spain and italy . and where learning is more in vogue , as in france , you see how ready they are to quarrel with the pope ; and to fall into heats and controversies about religion . and therefore to deal freely with you , i am not at all pleased to see this eagerness of buying of books among you . for as long as learning holds up , we see little hopes of prevailing , though we and the fanaticks had liberty of conscience : since upon long experience we find ignorance and our devotion , to agree as well as mother and daughter . p. d. i am glad of any symptom that we are like to hold in our wits ; and i think your observation is true enough . i have only one thing to add to it : which is , that it was not luther , or zuinglius that contributed so much to the reformation , as erasmus ; especially among us in england . for , erasmus was the man who awakened mens understandings ; and brought them from the friers divinity to a relish of general learning ; he by his wit laughed down the imperious ignorance of the monks , and made them the scorn of christendom ; and by his learning he brought most of the latine fathers to light , and published them with excellent editions , and useful notes ; by which means men of parts set themselves to consider the ancient church from the writings of the fathers themselves , and not from the canonists and school-men . so that most learned and impartial men were prepared for the doctrines of the reformation before it brake forth . for it is a foolish thing to imagine that a quarrel between two monks at wittemberg should make such an alteration in the state of christendom . but things had been tending that way a good while before ; by the gradual restoration of learning in these western parts . the greeks coming into italy after the taking of constantinople , and bringing their books with them , laid the first foundation of it ; then some of the princes of italy advanced their own reputation by the encouragement they gave to it : from thence it spread into germany , and there reuchlin and his companions joyned hebrew with greek ; from thence it came into france and england . when men had by this means attained to some skill in languages , they thought it necessary to search the old and new testament in their original tongues , which they had heard of , but few had seen , not above one greek testament being to be found in all germany ; then erasmus prints it with his notes , which infinitely took among all pious and learned men , and as much enraged the monks and friers , and all the fast friends to their dulness and superstition . when men had from reading the scripture and fathers formed in their minds a true notion of the christian religion and of the government and practices of the ancient church , and compared that with what they saw in their own age , they wondred at the difference ; and were astonished to think how such an alteration should happen ; but then , they reflected on the barbarism of the foregoing ages , the gradual encroachments of the bishop of rome , the suiting of doctrines and practices to carry on a temporal interest , the complyance with the superstitious humours of people , the vast numbers of monks and friers , whose interest lay in the upholding these things ; and when they laid these things together , they did not wonder at the degeneracy they saw in the christian church . all the difficulty was , how to recover the church out of this state ; and this puzzled the wisest men among them ; some thought the ill humours were grown so natural to the body , that it would hazard the state of it to attempt a sudden purging them quite away ; and that a violent reformation would do more mischief than good , by popular tumults , by schism and sacriledge ; and although such persons saw the corruptions and wished them reformed , yet considering the hazard of a sudden change , they thought it best for particular persons to inform the world better , and so by degrees bring it about , than to make any violent disturbance in the church . while these things were considered of by wiser men , the pope goes on to abuse the people with the trade of indulgences , and his officers in germany were so impudent in this trade , that a bold monk at wittenberg defies them , and of a sudden lays open the cheat , and this discovery immediately spread like wild-fire ; and so they went on from one thing to another , till the people were enraged at being so long and so grosly abused and tyrannized over . but when reformation begins below , it is not to be expected that no disorders and heats should happen in the management of it ; which gave distastes to such persons as erasmus was , which made him like so ill the wittenberg reformation , and whatever was carried on by popular tumults . yet rosinus saith , that the duke of saxony before he would declare himself in favour of luther , asked erasmus his opinion concerning him , who gave him this answer , that luther touched upon two dangerous points , the monks bellies , and the popes crown ; that his doctrine was true and certain , but he did not approve the manner of his writing . but here in england , the reformation was begun by the consent of the king and the bishops , who yielded to the retrenchment of the popes exorbitant power , and the taking away some grosser abuses in henry 's . time ; but in edw. .'s time , and q. elizabeths , when it was settled on the principles it now stands , there was no such regard had to luther , or calvin , as to erasmus and melancthon , whose learning and moderation were in greater esteem here , than the fiery spirits of the other . from hence , things were carryed with greater temper , the church settled with a succession of bishops ; the liturgie reformed according to the ancient models ; some decent ceremonies retained , without the sollies and superstitions which were before practised : and to prevent the extravagancies of the people in the interpreting of scripture , the most excellent paraphrase of erasmus was translated into english and set up in churches ; and to this day , erasmus is in far greater esteem among the divines of our church , than either luther , or calvin . r. p. if this be true which you say , methinks your divines should have a care of broaching such things , which do subvert the foundation of all ecclesiastical authority among you , as t. g. told dr. st. the charge of idolatry doth . for by vertue of this charge , he saith , the church of england remains deprived of the lawful authority to use and exercise the power of orders ; and consequently the authority of governing , preaching , and adminstring the sacraments , which those of the church of england challenge to themselves , as derived from the church of rome , can be no true and lawful jurisdiction , but usurped and antichristian . this i assure you t. g. layes great weight upon in his late dialogues , and charges him with ignorance , and tergiversation , and other hard words about it . so that i have a mind to hear what you can say in his defence about this , before i touch upon the other consequences which he urgeth upon this charge of idolatry . p. d. with all my heart . there are two things wherein the force of t. g.'s argument lyes . ( . ) that which he calls his undeniable maxim of reason , viz. that no man can give to another that which he hath not himself . ( . ) that idolatry lays men under the apostles excommunication , and therefore are deprived of all lawful authority to use or exercise the power of orders . in answer to these , two things are already proved by dr. st. ( . ) that the sin of the givers doth not hinder the validity of ordination . ( . ) that the christian church hath allowed the lawful authority of giving and exercising the power of orders , in those who have been condemned for idolatry . which he proves more briefly in his preface , and at large in his last book from the case of the arian bishops . and now let any one judge whether t. g. had any cause to hector about this matter for so many pages together , as though he had either not understood , or not taken notice of the force of his argument . concerning his undeniable maxime of reason he observed , that it was the very argument used by the donatists to prove the nullity of baptism among hereticks : and that the answer given by the church was , that the instrument was not the giver , but the first institutor , and if the minister keep to the institution , the grace of the sacrament may be conveyed though he hath it not himself . this dr. st. thought very pertinent to shew , that where power and authority are conveyed by men only as instruments , the particular default of such persons , as heresie or idolatry , do not hinder the derivation of that power or authority to them . and this he proved to be the sense of the christian church in the ordinations of hereticks . it is true , he did not then speak to authority so much as to power ; nor to jurisdiction , as it is called by the school divines , so much as to the validity of ordination . but he proceeded upon a parity of reason in both cases ; and could not imagine that any persons would suppose the christian church would allow a validity of orders without lawful authority to use and exercise those orders . for in all the instances produced by him from the second council of nice , wherein undeniable examples were brought of ordinations of hereticks allowed by the ancient fathers and councils ( even those of nice , ephesus and chalcedon ) it was apparent that their authority to use and exercise their power of orders , was allowed as well as their ordinations : for he there shews that anatolius the president of the fourth council was ordained by dioscorus in the presence of eutyches ; that many of the bishops who sat in the sixth council were ordained by sergius , pyrrhus , paulus and petrus , who in that council were declared hereticks . and doth t. g. in earnest think this doth not prove they had lawful authority ? what becomes then of the authority of these councils ? nay , of the authority of the church it self , when tarasius there saith , as dr. st. produceth him , they had no other ordinations for fifty years together . doth this prove either dr. st.'s ignorance , or tergiversation ? is not this rather plain and convincing evidence that the christian church did allow , not barely the validity of ordination by hereticks , but the lawful authority to use and exercise the power of orders ? which he likewise proves by the greek ordinations allowed by the church of rome ; by which he doth not mean the validity of the bare orders , but all that power and authority which is consequent upon them . for can any man be so sensless to think , that the church of rome only allowed the sacrament of orders among the greeks , without any authority to excommunicate or absolve ? what mean then these horrible clamours by tg . of dr. st.'s ignorance , intolerable mistake , shameful errors , tergiversation , and what not ? because he speaks only to the validity of ordination , and not to the lawful authority of exercising the power of orders . whereas the contrary appears by that very preface about which these outcries are made by e. w. and t. g. what ingenuity is to be expected from these men , who deny that which they cannot but see ? r. p. but t. g. gives this for a taste , not only what candour and sincerity , but what skill in church-affairs you are to expect in the rest from dr. st. which surely he would never have done , if he had spoken to the point . p. d. you may think as you please of him ; i only tell you the matter of fact , and then do you judge where the candour and sincerity , where the skill in church affairs lies . r. p. but is it not an undeniable maxime , that no man can give to another , that which he hath not himself ? and therefore it lies open to the conscience of every man , that if the church of rome be guilty of heresy , much more , if guilty of idolatry ; it falls under the apostles excommunication , gal. . . and so remains deprived of the lawful authority to use and exercise the power of orders , and consequently the authority of governing , preaching , &c. this you see bids fair towards the subversion of all lawful authority in the church of england , if the church of rome were guilty of idolatry when the schism began ; because excommunicated persons being deprived of all lawful authority themselves can give none to others ; and if those others take any upon them , it must be usurped and unlawful . p. d. this is the terrible argument which t. g. produces again in triumph , as though nothing were able to stand before it : and yet in my mind t. g. himself hath mightily weakened it by yielding the validity of ordinations made by hereticks or idolaters . for , if no man can give that which he hath not ; how can those give power and authority who have none ? but the power of orders doth necessarily carry authority along with it ; for it is part of the form of orders in the roman church , accipe spiritum sanctum , quorum remiseritis , &c. so that a power to excommunicate and absolve is given by vertue of the very form of orders ; and your divines say , the form is not compleat without it . but then , i pray , resolve me these questions . is not a power to excommunicate and absolve a part of that jurisdiction which t. g. doth distinguish from the bare power of orders ? r. p. yes , without doubt . p. d. is not this power given by the very form of orders in your church ? r. p. yes , but what then ? p. d. doth not the council of trent say the character is imprinted upon saying those words , accipe spiritum sanctum , &c. r. p. what would you be at ? p. d. is the character of orders given by words that signifie nothing , and carry no effect along with them ? r. p. no certainly . p. d. then these words have their effect upon every man that hath the power of orders . r. p. and what then ? p. d. then every one who hath the power of orders , hath the power to excommunicate and absolve . r. p. be it so . p. d. but the power to excommunicate and absolve is a part of jurisdiction , therefore a power of orders carries a power of jurisdiction along with it ; and consequently valid ordination must suppose lawful authority to use and exercise the power of excommunication and absolution . r. p. in the name of t. g. i deny that . p. d. hold a little ; you are denying the conclusion . consider again what you deny . do you deny this power to be given in your orders ? r. p. no. p. d. do you deny this power to be part of jurisdiction ? r. p. no. p. d. then this power of jurisdiction is given wherever the orders are valid . r. p. this cannot be ; for t. g. complains over and over of dr. st.'s ignorance , wilful and intolerable mistake , unbecoming a writer of controversies , for not distinguishing between the validity of ordination , and the power of jurisdiction , which he would never have done , if one had carried the other along with it . p. d. do not tell me , what t.g. would , or would not have done . i tell you what he hath done ; and judge you now with what advantage to himself . r. p. but t. g. is again up with his undeniable maxim , that none can give to another what he hath not himself : and this he thinks will carry him through all . p. d. i tell you that very maxim overthrows the validity of ordinations as he applyes it . for if the validity of orders doth suppose authority to be conveyed ; and there can be no such authority given in the case of idolatry : then the power of orders is taken away as well as jurisdiction . besides , is not the power of giving orders a part of that lawful authority which belongs to bishops ? r. p. i do not understand you . p. d. can any man give orders without a power to do it ? r. p. no. p. d. is not that power a part of episcopal authority ? r. p. yes . p. d. how then can there be a power of giving orders without authority ? r. p. now you shew your ignorance . do not you know that there is an indelible character imprinted in the soul by the power of orders , which no act of the church can hinder a bishop from giving in the sacrament of orders , or a priest from receiving ; but jurisdiction is quite another thing , that is derived from the church , or rather from the pope who is the fountain of jurisdiction ; and this may be suspended or taken away . p. d. i cry you mercy sir. i was not bred up in your schools ; this may be currant doctrine with you ; but i assure you i find no footsteps of it either in scripture or fathers , and if i be not much mis-informed , some of your greatest divines are of my mind . i see all this out-cry of t. g.'s concerning dr. st. 's ignorance comes at last to this mysterie of the indelible character imprinted in the soul by the sacrament of orders , which makes ordination to be valid , but gives no authority or jurisdiction . i pray make me a little better acquainted with this character ; for at present , i can neither read , nor understand it . r. p. yes , yes , this you would be alwayes at , to make us explain our school-notions , for you to fleer and to mock at them . p.d. but this i perceive is very material to prevent intolerable errour and mistake ; and for all that you know i may come to be a writer of controversies , and then i would not be hooted at for my ignorance ; nor have the boyes point at me in the streets and say , there goes a man that doth not understand the character : which in my mind would sound as ill , as saying there goes one that cannot read his a. b. c. i beseech you sir , tell me what this indelible character is ; for to tell you truth , i have heard of it before , but never met with one who could tell what it was . r. p. yes , that is it ; you will not believe a thing , unless one can tell you what it is . why , it is a mark or a seal imprinted in the soul by the sacrament of orders that can never be blotted out ; and therefore ordination is valid , because if re-ordination were allowed , one character would be put upon another , and so the first would be blotted out . do not you understand it now ? p. d. i suppose altogether as well as you . is it a physical kind of thing , just like the strokes of a pen upon paper ; or rather as the graving of a carver upon stone , so artificially done that it can never be taken out while it continues whole ; or is it only a moral relative thing depending upon divine institution , and only on the account of distinction called a character ? r. p. without doubt it is an absolute thing , but whether to call it a habit , or a power ; whether it be a quality , of the first , or the second , or the third , or fourth kind , that our divines are not agreed upon : and some think it is a new kind of quality : nor whether it be imprinted on the essence or powers of the soul ; and if in the faculties , whether in the vnderstanding or will ; but it is enough for us to believe , that there is really such an absolute indelible character imprinted on the soul ; from whence that sacrament can never be reiterated which doth imprint a character as that of orders doth . p. d. i am just as wise by all this account as i was before . for the only reason of the point is , it must needs be so . r. p. yes , the church hath declared it in the council of trent , and that is instead of all reasons to us . p. d. but what is this to dr. st. ? must he be upbraided with ignorance , errour and tergiversation , because he doth not believe the indelible character on the authority of the council of trent ? r. p. no ; that is not the thing , but because he did not understand the difference between the power of order , and jurisdiction . p. d. are you sure of that ? if i do not forget , he hath this very distinction in that pestilent book called irenicum , which t. g. hits him in the teeth with ▪ on all occasions . r. p. but he did not , or would not understand it here . p. d. yes , he knew it well enough ; but he thought if he proved the validity of ordination , he proved the lawfulness of authority and jurisdiction ; because the giving orders is part of church authority , and authority is received in taking orders ; and the church never allowed one , but it allowed the other also . if you have any thing more to say about this matter , i am willing to hear you , but as yet i see no reason for t. g.'s clamours about such a mistake in dr. st. , for i think the mistake lay nearer home . r. p. but e. w. publickly reproved dr. st. for this mistake , and yet after that he goes on to confirm his former answer with new proofs and testimonies , that bishops ordained by idolaters were esteemed validly ordained , and doth not speak one word in answer to what was objected by t. g. viz. that the english bishops must want lawful authority to exercise the power of orders , if their first ordainers were idolaters . and e. w. calls it an intolerable mistake , and t. g. saith , he hath heard he was a main man esteemed for his learning . after repeating the words of e. w. at length t. g. very mildly adds , as if he were wholly insensible of the gross and intolerable errour e. w. taxed him with , he runs again into the same shameful mistake ; but saith t. g. are the power of giving orders and lawful authority to give them , so essentially linked to each other , that they cannot be separated ? may not a bishop or priest remaining so , be deprived of all lawful authority to exercise their functions , for having faln into heresie or idolatry ? and if they have none themselves , can they give it to others ? p. d. on whose side the intolerable mistake lyes , will be best seen , by examining the force of what t. g. saith ( as to e. w. the matter is not great ) which lyes i suppose in this , that those who do fall into idolatry or heresie may ordain validly ; for , saith he , from esti●s , no crime , or censure soever can hinder the validity of ordination by a bishop ; but he may be deprived of any lawful authority to do it , and therefore cannot convey this lawful authority to others ordained by him . from hence t. g. saith , no crime can hinder the validity of ordination ; but idolatry , he saith , doth ipso facto deprive bishops of the authority of exercising orders , or conveying jurisdiction ; and therefore though the ordination of the bishops of england may be valid , yet their jurisdiction cannot be lawful , and so the foundation of their authority is subverted by the charge of idolatry . i hope you will allow this to be the force of all that t. g. saith . r. p. yes ; now you have hit upon his right meaning . p. d. let us then consider more closely , on which side the mistake lay ; which will be discerned by this , whether we are to follow the modern schools , or the judgement of antiquity in this matter . for dr. st. spake according to the sense and practice of antiquity , and t. g. according to the modern notions and distinctions of their schools . it is true , their schoolmen have so distinguished the power of order and jurisdiction , that they make the one to depend upon an indelible unintelligible character , which no crime can hinder having its valid effect : but that jurisdiction , or the right of excommunication and absolution may be suspended or taken away . since the councils of florence and trent this doctrine of the indelible character given in orders , is not to be disputed among them ; and therefore they hold the character to remain wherever orders are received in the due form ; but then they say this character is capable of such restraints by the power of the church , that it remains like aristotles first matter , a dull and unactive thing till the church give a new form to it , and this they call the power of jurisdiction . but that all this , is new doctrine in the church and a late monkish invention , will appear by these considerations . ( . ) how long it was before this doctrine was received in the church by the confession of their own schoolmen . scotus , and biel , and cajetan , ( no inconsiderable men in the roman church ) do confess , that the doctrine of the character imprinted in the soul can neither be proved from scripture , nor fathers , but only from the authority of the church , and that not very ancient neither . and morinus takes notice that it was not so much as mentioned by p. lombard , or hugo de sancto victore : although they debate those very questions which would have required their expressing it , if they had known any thing of it . ( . ) how many of their schoolmen who do acknowledge the character of priesthood , yet make the power of orders to belong to jurisdiction , so albertus magnus and others cited by morinus ; but alex. alensis carries this point so far , that he saith , that because of the indelible character of priesthood , the power can never be taken from a priest , but only the execution of it ; but in a bishop there is no new character imprinted , and therefore in the degrading him , not only the execution , but the power of giving orders is taken away . and scotus saith , if a bishop be excommunicated , he loseth the power of giving orders ; if episcopacy be not a distinct order ; as you know many of the schoolmen hold . and morinus grants , that if episcopacy be not a distinct order , but a larger commission , the power of bishops may be so limited by the church , as not only to hinder them from a lawful authority , but from a power of acting ; so that what they do , carries no validity along with it . ( . ) how many before the dayes of the schoolmen were of opinion that the censures of the church did take away the power of orders ? gratian holds it most agreeable to the doctrine of the fathers , that a bishop degraded hath no power to give orders , although he hath to baptize ; only for s. augustines sake , he thinks , they may distinguish between the power and the execution of it . gul. parisiensis saith , that bishops deposed can confer no order , because the church hath the same power in taking away , which it hath in giving , and the intention of the church is to take away their power . if what t. g. asserts , had been alwayes the sense of the church , i desire him to resolve me these questions . . why pope lucius . did re-ordain those who had been ordained by octavianus the anti-pope ? . why vrban . declared nezelon or wecilo an excommunicate bishop of ments to have no power of giving orders ? and that upon t. g.'s own maxim , that which a man hath not , he cannot give to another ; because he was ordained by hereticks . . why the synod of quintilinberg under greg. . declared all ordinations to be null which were made by excommunicated bishops ? . why leo . in a synod voided all simoniacal ordinations ? . why stephanus . re-ordained those which were ordained by formosus ? . why hincmarus re-ordained those who had been ordained by ebbo , because he had been deposed ? . why stephanus . re-ordained those who had received orders from pope constantine ? . why the ordinations made by photius were declared null ? to name no more . if this had been always the sense of the christian church , that the power of orders is indelible , but not that of jurisdiction , i desire t. g. to give an answer to those questions ; which , i fear , will involve several heads of his church under that which he calls in dr. st. an intolerable mistake . did so many popes know no better this distinction between the validity of ordination , and the power of jurisdiction ? i am sorry to see t. g. so magisterial and confident , so insulting over dr. st. as betraying so much ignorance as doth not become a writer of controversies , when all the while , he doth only expose his own . but alas ! this is the current divinity of the modern schools ; and what obliges them to look into the opinions of former ages ? yet methinks a man had need to look about him , before he upbraids another with gross and intolerable errors , lest at the same time he prove the guilty person ; and then the charge falls back far more heavily on himself . ( . ) those who did hold the validity of ordinations did it chiefly on the account of the due form that was observed , whoever the persons were ; whether hereticks , or excommunicated-persons . for after all the heats and disputes which hapned in the church about this matter , the best way they found to resolve it was to observe the same course which the church had done in the baptism of hereticks : viz. to allow that baptism which was administred in due form , although those who administred it were hereticks . thence praepositivus , as he is quoted by morinus , saith , that a heretick hath power to administer all the sacraments as long as he observes the form of the church . and not only such a one as received episcopal orders in the church himself , but those who do derive a succession from such : as appears from tarasius in the second council of nice , where he saith , that five bishops of constantinople successively were hereticks , and yet their ordinations were allowed by the church : to the same purpose speak others , who are there produced by the same learned author . let these considerations be laid together and the result will be , . either dr. st. was not guilty of an intolerable error and mistake in this matter , or so many infallible heads of the church were guilty of the same . . it was believed for some ages in the roman church , that the censures of the church did take away the power of orders . . t. g.'s distinction as to the foundation of it in the indelible character of orders is a novel thing , and acknowledged by their own divines to have no foundation either in scripture or fathers . . the ground assigned by those who held the validity of ordination by hereticks , will hold for the authority of exercising the power of orders , if not actually taken away by the censures of the church . for every man hath the power which is given him , till it be taken from him ; every one that receives orders according to the form of the church hath a power given him to excommunicate and absolve , therefore every such person doth enjoy that power , till it be taken from him . for as i have already shewed , this is part of the form of orders in the roman church , accipe spiritum sanctum , quorum remiseritis , &c. and the council of trent determines the character to be imprinted upon the use of these words : therefore this power of jurisdiction is conveyed by the due form of orders , from whence it unavoidably follows that every one who hath had the due form of orders , hath had this power conveyed to him , and what power he hath , he must enjoy till it be taken away . r. p. but t. g. saith , that excommunication by the apostles sentence doth it , gal. . . p. d. this is indeed a piece of new doctrine , and a fruit of t. g.'s mother-wit , and which i dare say , he received neither from schoolmen nor fathers . for it involves such mischievous consequences in it as really overthrow all authority in the church . for by this supposition , in case any bishop falls into heresie or idolatry , he is ipso facto excommunicated by st. paul 's sentence , and consequently hath no authority to exercise the power of orders , and so all who derive their power from him have no lawful authority , or jurisdiction . i do wonder in all this time t. g. did no better reflect upon this assertion and the consequences of it , and rather to thank dr. st. that he took no more notice of it , than upbraid him with intolerable error and mistake . i will put a plain case to you to shew you the ill consequence of this assertion to the church of rome it self . dr. st. hath proved by undeniable evidence , that the arians were looked on and condemned as idolaters by the primitive church : and t. g. doth not deny it ; and what now if we find an arian among the bishops of rome , and from whom the succession is derived ? he must stand excommunicated by vertue of the apostles sentence , and therefore hath no authority to give orders , and so all the authority in the church of rome is lost . the case i mean is that of liberius ; who shewed himself as much an arian , as any of the arian bishops did , for he subscribed their confession of faith , and joyned in communion with them . st. hierom saith more than once , that he subscribed to heresie ; the pontifical book saith , he communicated with hereticks ; marcellinus and faustinus say , that he renounced the faith by his subscription ; yea more than this , hilary denounced an anathema against him and all that joyned with him : and baronius confesseth he did communicate with the arians , which is suffient to our purpose . then comes t. g. upon him , with st. paul 's sentence of excommunication ; and so he loseth all authority of exercising the power of orders , and consequently that authority which is challenged in the church of rome being derived from him is all lost . and now judge who subverts the foundation of ecclesiastical authority most ; t. g. or dr. st. : yet it falls out unhappily , that pet. damiani mentions these very ordinations of liberius the heretick ( so he calls him ) to shew how the church did allow ordinations made by hereticks . but this is not all ; for by all that i can find , if this principle of t. g. be allowed , no man can be sure there is any lawful ecclesiastical authority left in the world . for who can tell what secret idolaters or hereticks there might be among those bishops from whom that authority is derived ? this we are sure of , that the arian bishops possessed most of the eastern churches and made ordinations there : and the western bishops in the council of ariminum did certainly comply with them : as is now plain from marcellinus and faustinus , whose book was published by sirmondus at paris ; where sulpitius severus saith , more than four hundred western bishops were present ; who were all excommunicated by t. g.'s principle ; and what now becomes of all ecclesiastical authority ? but dr. st. hath shewed that the christian church was wiser , than to proceed upon t. g.'s principle , proving from authentick testimonies of antiquity , that the arian ordinations were allowed by the church , although the arians were condemned for idolaters . r. p. yes , t. g. saith , that dr. st. was resolved to go on in the same track still , and to prove that the act it self of ordination is not invalid in case of the idolatry of the givers , which was never denied by his adversary . p. d. how is it possible to satisfie men who are resolved to cavil ? doth not dr. st. by that instance of the arian bishops evidently prove , that the authority of giving orders was allowed by the christian church at that time , and that which he calls their jurisdiction as well as the power of orders ? because nothing more was required from the arian bishops but renouncing arianism and subscribing the nicene creed ; and thus for all that i can see by t. g.'s principle , they still remained under st. paul's excommunication , and so ecclesiastical authority is all gone with them . r. p. but do not you think that dr. st. had some secret design in all this really to subvert the authority of the church of england ? for t.g. lays together several notable things to that purpose to make it appear that he purposely declined defending the ecclesiastical authority of the church of england : i assure you it is a very politick discourse , and hath several deep fetches in it . first , he begins with his irenicum , and there he lays the foundation , that the government may be changed . . the book was reprinted since the bishops were reestablished by law. . he perswades the bishops in that book to reduce the form of church government to its primitive state and order , by restoring presbyteries under them , &c. . when this would not do , he charges the church of rome with idolatry , and makes this the sense of the church of england , to make her contribute to the subversion of her own authority . . when t. g. told him of the consequence of this , he passed it by , as if he saw it not , and trifled with his adversary about the validity of ordination . . when e. w. endeavoured to bring him to this point , he still declined it , and leaves episcopacy to shift for it self . and after all these t. g. thinks , he hath found out the mole that works under ground . p. d. a very great discovery i assure you ! and t. g. deserves a greater reward than any common mole-catchers do . but i never liked such politick informers ; for if people are more dull and quiet than they would have them , they make plots for them to keep up their reputation and interest . they must have always something to whisper in great mens ears , and to fill their heads with designs which were never thought of ; by which means they torment them with unreasonable suspicions , and tyrannize over them under a pretence of kindness . just thus doth t. g. do by the governours of our church : he would fain perswade them , that there is one dr. st. who hath undertaken to defend the church , but doth carry on a very secret and subtile design to ruine and destroy it . if they say , they do not believe it ; he seems to pity them for their incredulity and weakness , and endeavours to convince them , by a long train of his own inventions ; and if they be so easie to hearken to it , and to regard his insinuations , then he flatters and applauds them as the only friends to the church , when in the meantime he really laughs at them as a sort of weak men , who can be imposed upon by any man who pretends to be a friend , although even in that he doth them and the church the greater mischief . i cannot believe such kind of insinuations as these can prevail upon any one man of understanding in our church , against a person who hath at least endeavoured his utmost to defend it . but since t. g. talks so politickly about these maters , i will convince you by one argument of common prudence , that if dr. st. be a man of common sense , ( much more if he be so politick and designing as t. g. represents him ) all these suggestions must be both false and foolish . for that which all designing men aim at , is their own interest and advantage : now can any man that hath common sense left in him , imagine that dr. st. can aim at any greater advantage by ruining the church than by preserving it ? are not his circumstances more considerable in the church of england than ever he can hope they should be , if it were destroyed ? they who would perswade others that he carries on such a secret design , must suppose him to be next to an ideot , and such are not very dangerous politicians . but what is it then should make him act so much against his interest ? it can be nothing but folly or malice . but i do not find they have taxed him of any malice to the church of england , or of any occasion for it which the church hath given him , if he were disposed to it . why then should any be so senseless themselves , or suppose others to be so , as to go about to possess men with an opinion of an underground plot dr. st. is carrying on , not only to blow up the thames , but the rising fabrick of st. pauls too : i. e. to ruine and destroy himself ? if he be a fool , he is not to be feared ; if he be not , he is not to be mistrusted . r.p. but what say you to t. g.'s proofs ? do you observe the several mole-hills which he hath cast up ; and is not that a sign he works un-derground ? what say you to his irenicum in the first place ? p. d. i will tell you freely ; i believe there are many things in it , which if dr. st. were to write now , he would not have said ; for there are some things which shew his youth , and want of due consideration : others which he yielded too far in hopes of gaining the dissenting parties to the church of england ; but upon the whole matter i am fully satisfied the book was written with a design to serve the church of england : and the design of it , i take to be this ; that among us there was no necessity of entring upon nice and subtile disputes about a strict jus divinum of episcopacy , such as makes all other forms of government unlawful ; but it was sufficient for us , if it were proved to be the most ancient and agreeable to apostolical practice , and most accommodate to our laws and civil government ; and there could be no pretence against submitting to it , but the demonstrating its unlawfulness , which he knew was impossible to be done . and for what proposals he makes about tempering episcopacy , they were no other than what king charles . and mr. thorndike had made before him ; and doth t. g. think they designed to ruine the church of england ? and as long as he declared this to be the design of his book both at the beginning and conclusion of it , suppose he were mistaken in the means he took , must such a man be presently condemned as one that aimed at the ruine and destruction of the church ? r. p. but t. g. saith , he tendred it to consideration after episcopacy was resetled by law. p. d. that is as true as others of his suggestions . the book was printed while things were unsetled , and was intended to remove the violent prejudices of the dissenting party against episcopal government ; and i have heard , did considerable service that way , at least in a neighbour kingdom , and it happened to be reprinted afterwards , with the same title it had before . but what then ? do not booksellers look on books as their own , and do what they please with them , without the authors consent or approbation ? hath he ever preached or written any doctrine since , contrary to the sense of the church of england ? hath he made any party or faction to the disturbance of the peace of the church ? hath he not conformed to its rules , observed its offices , obeyed his superiours , and been ready to defend its cause against adversaries of all sorts ? and can malice it self after all this fasten such a calumny upon him , that he is a secret enemy to the church of england , and designs to ruine and destroy it ? i remember a poor englishman in amboyna being cruelly tormented by the dutch ; and finding nothing he could say would perswade his tormentors to release him ( and he said any thing that he thought would prevail with them ) at last he prayed god , that he might tell them probable lies . i would advise t. g. the next time he goes a mole-catching , to find out probable plots , otherwise he will lose all the reputation of an informer and discoverer . but i can hardly tell , whether his plot or his proofs were the worse ; for as there appears no likelihood in the plot , so there is no evidence in the proofs . there being nothing pretended since the irenicum , but this charge of idolatry , and that hath been sufficiently cleared already , by shewing that it doth not subvert the authority of the church of england . r. p. let us now , if you please , proceed to the other dangerous consequences of this charge , as they are mustered up by t. g. : one is , that it overthrows the article of the holy catholick church . p. d. that is something indeed ; what ! doth it take away an article of the creed ? nay then , it is time to look about us . but how i pray ? r. p. i will tell you how . if the church hath been guilty of idolatry , ( . ) then she hath required and enjoyned idolatry , for many hundreds of years parallel to the heathens . ( . ) then mahomet had more wisdom and power to carry on his design than the son of god , for his followers have been preserved from it by the grounds he laid above a thousand years . ( . ) then our fore-fathers had better been converted to judaism or turcism than to christianity as they were . p. d. i deny every one of these consequences . for our present dispute is only about the church of romes being guilty of idolatry ; and from thence ( . ) it doth not follow , that the whole christian church must require idolatry , if that doth ; unless t. g. had proved , that all other churches are equally involved in the same guilt , which he never attempted . ( . ) it doth not follow that mahomet was wiser than christ ; for if you compare the grounds laid for divine worship by christ and mahomet ; i say that christ did shew infinitely more wisdom in them , than so vile an impostor ; and it is a shame for any christian to suggest the contrary : but if t. g. speaks of power to carry on his design ; then it must suppose that mahomets power hath preserved the mahumetan religion so long free from idolatry , although christ hath not ; which must imply the greatness of mahomets power in heaven ; and so it borders upon blasphemy . ( . ) it doth not follow that our fore-fathers had better been converted to judaism or turcism than to christianity . for they had incomparably greater advantages towards their salvation than either turks or pagans ; and such circumstances might accompany their practice of idolatry , as might make it not to hinder their salvation . but i shall give you a full answer to this in the words of bishop sanderson , ( who is another competent witness , if any more were needful , that dr. st. doth not in the charge of idolatry contradict the sense of the church of england . ) we have much reason to conceive good hope of the salvation of many of our fore-fathers : who , led away with the common superstitions of those blind times , might yet by those general truths , which by the mercy of god were preserved among the foulest over-spreadings of popery , agreeable to the word of god ( though clogged with an addition of many superstitions and antichristian inventions withal ) be brought to true faith in the son of god ; unfeigned repentance from dead works ; and a sincere desire and endeavour of new and holy obedience . this was the religion that brought them to heaven , even faith and repentance , and obedience . this is the true , and the old and the catholick religion : and this is our religion , in which we hope to find salvation ; and if ever any of you that miscall your selves catholicks come to heaven , it is this religion must carry you thither . if together with this true religion of faith , repentance , and obedience , they embraced also your additions , as their blind guides then led them ; prayed to our lady , kneeled to an image , crept to a cross , flocked to a mass as you now do : these were their spots and their blemishes ; these were their hay and stubble ; these were their errours , and their ignorances . and i doubt not , but as s. paul for his blasphemies and persecutions , so they obtained mercy for these sins , because they did them ignorantly in misbelief . and upon the same ground we have cause also to hope charitably of many thousand poor souls in italy , spain and other parts of the christian world at this day , that by the same blessed means they may attain mercy and salvation in the end , although in the mean time through ignorance they defile themselves with much foul idolatry , and many gross superstitions . obj. but the ignorance which excuseth from sin , is ignorantia facti , according to that hath been already declared ; but theirs was ignorantia juris , which excuseth not . and besides , as they lived in the practice of that worship which we call idolatry , so they dyed in the same without repentance ; and so their case is not the same with s. pauls , who saw those sins and sorrowed for them , and forsook them ; but how can idolaters , living and dying so without repentance , be saved ? ans. it is answered , that ignorance in point of fact so conditioned as hath been shewed doth so excuse à toto ; that an action proceeding thence , though it have a material inconformity with the law of god , is yet not formally a sin . but i do not so excuse the idolatry of our fore-fathers , as if it were not in it self a sin , and that ( without repentance ) damnable . but yet their ignorance being such as it was ; nourished by education , custom , tradition , the tyranny of their leaders , the fashion of the times , not without shew also of piety and devotion ; and themselves , withal , having such slender means of better knowledge ; though it cannot wholly excuse them from sin without repentance damnable , yet it much lesseneth and qualifieth the sinfulness of their idolatry ; arguing that their continuance therein was more from other prejudices , than from a wilful contempt of gods holy word and will. and as for their repentance , it is as certain , that as many of them as are saved did repent of their idolatries , as it is certain no idolater nor other sinner can be saved without repentance . but then there is a double difference to be observed between repentance for ignorances , and known sins ; the one must be particular , the other general ; the one cannot be sincere without forsaking , the other may ; which he inlarges upon , and then concludes , some of our fore-fathers then , might not only live in popish idolatry , but even dye in an idolatrous act , breathing out their last with their lips at a crucifix and an ave mary in their thoughts : and yet have truly repented , ( though but in the general , and the croud of their unknown sins ) even of those very sins ; and have at the same instant true faith in jesus christ , and other graces accompanying salvation . r. p. but hath not christ promised that the gates of hell shall never prevail against his church ? p. d. this dr. st. hath already answered thus . against what church ? the whole christian church ? whoever said they could , or how doth that follow ? the church of constantinople , or the church of jerusalem ? have not the gates of the turk been too strong for them ? the church of rome ? the gates of hell do certainly prevail against that , if it doth unchurch all other churches that are not of its communion . and why may not idolatry prevail where luciferian pride , and hellish cruelty , and desperate wickedness have long since prevailed ? hath christ made promises to secure that church from errour , which hath been over-run with all sorts of wickedness by the confession of her own members and friends ? r. p. but t. g. saith , that dr. st. ought to have assigned us some church distinct in all ages , from all heretical and idolatrous congregations , which christ hath preserved alwayes from heresie and idolatry ? p. d. why so ? unless he had first yielded , that christ had promised to preserve such a distinct congregation of christians , which he never did . but he shewed the feebleness of that kind of arguing , from particulars to generals ; as though all the promises made to the church must fail , if the church of rome be guilty of idolatry . r. p. but i will prove that dr. st. ought to assign such a distinct church , because , he saith , that a christian by vertue of his being so , is bound to joyn in some church or congregation of christians , therefore there must be such a church at all times to joyn with . p. d. i answer , ( . ) dr. st.'s answer doth imply no more than this , that a christian is bound to joyn with other christians in the acts of gods publick worship ; but withal he adds immediately , that he is bound to choose the communion of the purest church ; which doth suppose a competition between two churches , where a person may embrace the communion of either , as the church of england , and the church of rome . so that where there are distinct communions , the best is to be chosen . ( . ) supposing no church to be so pure that a mans conscience can be fully satisfied in all the practices of it , yet he may lawfully hold communion with that church he is baptized in , till the unlawful practices become the condition of his communion . as here in england , the conditions of communion are different as to clergy-men and lay-men ; if the latter be satisfied in what concerns them , they have no reason to reject communion themselves , for what concerns others . ( . ) where any church doth require idolatrous acts as conditions of communion , that church is the cause of a separation made for a distinct communion . so that there is no necessity of assigning a distinct church in all ages free from heresie and idolatry ; since men may communicate with a corrupt church , so they do not communicate in their corruptions ; and when they come to that height to require this , they make themselves the causes of the separation which is made on the account of heresie , or idolatry . r. p. still that promise sticks with me , that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church : and are not heresie and idolatry the two posts of those gates ? p. d. if you turn over that promise never so much , you will prove no more from it , than the continuance of a christian church in the world , with a capacity of salvation to the members of it . and this we do not deny : but it doth not prove that any particular church shall be preserved in all ages free from heresie and idolatry . for whatever may be consistent with the salvation of the members of a church , may be consistent with the gates of hell not prevailing against it ; but heresie and idolatry may be consistent with the salvation of the members of a church . because there are so many cases assigned by divines , wherein sins of ignorance and errour , are consistent with salvation . i say then , that christs promises do prove a possibility of salvation in all ages of the christian church ; but they do not prove the indefectibility of any distinct church . r. p. but why doth dr. st. say , the gates of hell have prevailed against the church of rome , when himself acknowledges it to be a true church , as holding all the essential points of faith ? p. d. as though a man could be damned for nothing , but for denying the articles of his creed ! it is in respect of pride , cruelty , and all sorts of wickedness , as well as idolatry , that he saith , the gates of hell have prevailed against it . r. p. well! but t. g. for all that proves , that all christians are bound by vertue of their christianity to joyn in communion with the church of rome . p. d. doth he so ? it is a great undertaking , and becoming t. g. but how ? r. p. first , there was in the world before luther a distinct church , whose communion was necessary to salvation , but this was not the protestant , for that came in after luther , therefore it was the roman . p. d. this is very subtle reasoning , yet it is possible we may find out something like it . there was in the world before julius caesar some civil society , in which it was necessary for a man to live for his own preservation ; but this was not the roman empire , for that rose up after him ; therefore it was the roman common-wealth . but doth not this imply , that there was no other civil society in the world , wherein a man could preserve himself , but the roman common-wealth ? but i will put the case a little farther home ; after britain was made a province , it became a member of the roman empire , and depended so much upon the strength and arms of rome , that it was not able to defend it self ; it being sore distressed by enemies , and in danger of ruine , sends to rome for help ; there it is denyed , and the britains forced to look out for help elsewhere . now after t. g.'s way of reasoning the britains must return to the romans , because once they had been members of the roman empire . the case is alike in the church ; the time was when the western church was united under one head , but by degrees this head grew too heavy , and laid too great a load on the members , requiring very hard and unreasonable conditions from them ; upon this , some of the members seek for relief , this is denyed them , they take care of their own safety , and do what is necessary to preserve themselves . the head and some corrupt members conspiring , denounce excommunication , if they do not presently yield and submit . these parts stand upon their own rights and ancient priviledges ; that it was not an vnion of submission but association originally between several national churches : and therefore the church of rome assuming so much more to it self , than did belong to it , and dealing so tyrannically ; upon just complaints our church had reason to assert her own freedom , and to reform the abuses which had crept either into her doctrine or practice . and that this was lawful proceeding , it offered to justifie by scripture and reason and the rules of the primitive church . now the question of communion , as it was stated between t. g. and dr. st. comes to this , whether any person being baptized in this church , ought in order to his salvation to forsake the communion of it , for that of the church of rome ? and this being the true state of it , i pray , where lies the force of the argument ? dr. st. yields communion with some church to be necessary : and what follows , the communion of the church of england is so to one baptized in it ; why must any such leave it for that of the church of rome ? yes , saith t. g. , there was a distinct church before luther , whose communion was necessary to salvation ; and what then ? what have we to do with luther ? we are speaking of the present church of england , which was reformed by it self , and not by luther . why is it necessary to leave this church , in which persons are baptized , and not in that before luther ? here lyes the main hinge of the controversie ; to which t. g. ought to speak , and not to run to a church before luther . the church of england was the church of england before the reformation as well as since ; but it hath now reformed it self , being an entire body within it self , having bishops to govern it , priests and deacons to administer sacraments , to preach the word of god , to officiate in the publick liturgie , in which all the ancient creeds are read and owned ; the question now is , whether salvation cannot be had in the communion of this church ? or all persons are bound to return to the church of rome ? this is the point , if t. g. hath any more to say to it . r. p. t. g. urgeth farther , nothing can render the communion of the roman church not necessary to salvation , but either heresie or schism ; not heresie , because she holds all the essential articles of christian faith ; not schism , because then dr. st. must assign some other distinct church ( then at least in being ) from whose vnity she departed . p. d. a right doway argument ! one would take t. g. for a young missioner by it ; it is so exactly cut in their form. but it proceeds upon such false suppositions as these . ( . ) that communion with the roman church as such , i. e. as a body united under such a head , was necessary to salvation , which we utterly deny ; and it can never be proved , but by shewing , that christ appointed the bishop of rome to be head of the church ; which is an argument , i do not find that now adays , you are willing to enter upon ; being so thread-bare and baffled a topick . ( . ) that no doctrines but such as are contrary to the articles of the creed , can be any reason to hold off from the communion of a church ; but we think , the requiring doubtful things for certain , false for true , new for old , absurd for reasonable are ground enough for us not to embrace the communion of a church , unless it may be had on better terms than these . ( . ) that no church can be guilty of schism , unless we can name some distinct church from whose vnity it separated ; whereas we have often proved , that imposing unreasonable conditions of communion , makes the church so imposing guilty of the schism . surely t. g.'s stock is almost spent , when he plays the same game so often over . these are not such terrible arguments to be produced afresh , as if they had never been heard of ; when there is not a missioner that comes , but hath them at his fingers end . r. p. but the roman church was once the true church , rom. . and the christian world of all ages , believed it to be the only true church of christ ; but it cannot be proved not to be the true one , by an evidence equal to that which once proved it true ; therefore we are bound to be of the communion of that church . p. d. o the vertue of sodden coleworts ! how often are they produced without shame ! to be short sir , ( . ) we deny that the church of which the pope is head , was ever commended by st. paul ; or in any one age of the christian world , was owned by it to be the only true church : which is very much short of the whole christian world of all ages . ( . ) since the evidence is so notoriously faulty about proving the roman church to be the only true church ; a small degree of evidence as to its corruptions may exceed it , and consequently be sufficient to keep us from returning to its communion . but what doth t. g. mean by repeating such stuff as this ? which i dare say dr. st. only passed by , on account of the slightness and commonness of it ; they being arguments every day brought , and every day answered . and if he had a mind to see dr. st.'s mind about them , he might have seen it at large in his defence of archhishop laud ; and do you think it fair for him , every book he writes , to produce afresh every argument there , which hath received no answer ? r. p. i perceive you begin to be out of patience . p. d. not , i assure you , when i meet with any thing that deserves it . r. p. here comes our fanatick friend to refresh you a little . what is the matter man ? why so sad ? have you met with an ill bargain at the auction ? f. c. no , no. i got a book last night , hath taken me up till this time ; and truly , i have read something in it which fits much upon my spirit . r. p. what is it ? if we may ask you . f. c. it is no comfort either to you , or me . r. p. if i be concerned , i pray let me know . f. c. you know last night we heard them at rutherford and gillespee ; i came in time enough for gillespee's miscellany questions ; a rare book , i promise you . and by a particular favour i carried it home with me , and looking upon the contents , i found the seasonable case , viz. about associations and confederacies with idolaters , infidels , or hereticks : and he proves them to be so absolutely unlawful from scripture , and many sound orthodox divines , that for my part he hath fully convinced and setled me , and i thought it my duty to come and to tell you so . r. p. well , we will let alone that discourse at present , we are at our old trade again : and i was just coming to a seasonable question for you , viz. whether you have not as much reason to separate from the church of england , as the church of england had from the church of rome ? f. c. who doubts of that ? p. d. i do sir ; nay more , i absolutely deny it . f. c. what matter is it , what you say or deny ? you will do either for a good preferment . have not you assented and consented to all that is in the book of common prayer , and what will you stick at after ? p. d. consider sir , what it is to judge rash judgement ; i wonder men that pretend to conscience , and seem so nice and scrupulous in some things , can allow thmselves in the practice of so dangerous a sin . if you have a mind to debate this point before us , without clamour and impertinency , i am for you . f. c. you would fain draw me in to dispute again , would you ? no such matter , there is your man , he will manage our cause for us against you of the church of england , i warrant you . r. p. i am provided for it : for t. g. desires of dr. st. for the sake of the presbyterians , anabaptists , and other separated congregations , to know why the believing all the ancient creeds , and leading a good life may not be sufficient to salvation , unless one be of the communion of the church of england ? p. d. a very doughty question ! as though we were like you , and immediately damned all persons , who are not of the communion of our church . we say , their separation from us is very unjust and unreasonable ; and that there is no colour for making their case equal with ours , as to the separation from the church of rome . r. p. i will tell you of a man who makes the case parallel , it is one dr. st. in his irenicum : and t. g. produces many pages out of him to that purpose . p. d. to save you the trouble of repeating them , i have read them over , and do think these answers may serve for his vindication . ( . ) that in that very place he makes separation from a church retaining purity of doctrine , on the account of some corrupt practices to be unlawful ; and afterwards in case men be unsatisfied as to some conditions of communion , he denies it to be lawful to erect new churches ; because a meer requiring conformity in some suspected rites , doth not make a church otherwise sound to be no true church : or such a church from which it is lawful to make a total separation , which is then done , when men enter into a new and distinct society for worship , under distinct and peculiar officers , governing by laws and church rules different from those of the church they separate from . and now , let your fanatick friend judge whether this man , even in the dayes of writing his irenicum , did justifie the practices of the separated congregations ; which he speaks expressely against ? f. c. no truly . we are all now for separated congregations , and know better what we have to do , than our fore-fathers did . alas ! what comfort is there in bare nonconformity ? for our people would not endure us , if we did not proceed to separation . he that speaks against separation ruins us and our cause . p. d. so far then we have cleared dr. st. from patronizing the cause of the separated congregations . ( . ) he saith , that as to things left undetermined by the law of god in the judgement of the primitive and reformed churches , and in matters of order , decency and government , every one notwithstanding what his private judgement may be of them , is bound to submit to the determination of the lawful governours of the church . can any thing be said plainer for conformity , than this is by the author of the irenicum ? r. p. but how then come in those words produced by t. g. ? p. d. i will tell you ; he supposes that some scrupulous and conscientious men after all endeavours used to satisfie themselves , may remain unsatisfied as to the lawfulness of some imposed rites , but dare not proceed to positive separation from the church , but are willing to comply in all other things save in those rites which they still scruple ; and concerning these he puts the question , whether such bare-nonconformity do involve such men in the guilt of schism ? and this i confess he resolves negatively , and so brings in that long passage t. g. produces out of him . i now appeal to your self , whether t. g. hath dealt fairly with dr. st. in two things , ( . ) in not distinguishing the case of separation , from that of bare nonconformity , only in some suspected rites ; and in producing these words to justifie the separated congregations ? ( . ) in taking his judgement in this matter rather from his irenicum written so long since , than from his late writings , wherein he hath purposely considered the difference of the case of those who separate from the church of england and of our separation from the church of rome . r. p. but hath he done this indeed ? and did t. g. know it ? p. d. yes very well . for it is in that very book , the preface whereof t. g. pretends to answer in these dialogues : and he doth not speak of it by the by , but discourseth largely about it . is this fair dealing ? but the irenicum served better for his purpose as he thought , and yet he hath foully misrepresented that too . r. p. but yet dr. st. must not think to escape so : for he hath searched another book of his , called his rational account , and there he finds a passage he thinks in favour to dissenters from the church of england ; and which undermines the church of england . p. d. therefore the church of rome is not guilty of idolatry . r. p. have a little patience ; we shall come to that in time . at present i pray clear this matter , if you can . p. d. to what purpose is all this raking , and scraping , and searching , and quoting of passages not at all to the point of idolatry ? r. p. what! would you have a man do nothing to fill up a book , and make it carry something of the port of an answer ; especially to a thick book of between and pages ? p. d. if this be your design , go on : but i will make my answers as short as i can ; for methinks t. g. seems to have lost that spirit and briskness he had before ; for then he talked like a man that had a mind to keep close to the point ; but now he flags and draws heavily on : for he repeats what he had said before for some pages , and then quotes out of dr. st.'s other books for several pages more , and at last it comes to no more than this , dr. st. doth in some places of his writings seem to favour the dissenters . i am quite tired with this impertinency : yet i would fain see an end of these things , that we might come close to the business of idolatry which i long to be at . r. p. your stomach is too sharp set ; we must blunt it a little before you fall to . p. d. you take the course to do it , with all this impertinency ; but what is it you have to say ? r. p. to please you i will bring this charge as near to the point of idolatry as i can ; the substance of it is this , dr. st. saith , the church of england doth not look on her articles as articles of faith , but as inferiour truths ; from thence t. g. infers , ( . ) the church of rome doth not err against any articles of faith. ( . ) dr. st. doth not believe the thirty nine articles to be articles of faith. ( . ) then this charge of idolatry is vain and groundless , because idolatry is an error against a fundamental point of faith. p. d. here is not one word new in all this long charge , but a tedious repetition of what t. g. had said before . it consists of two points . . the charge upon dr. st. for undermining the church of england . . the unreasonableness of the charge of idolatry upon his own supposition . because t. g. seems to think there is something in this business which touched dr. st. to the quick , and therefore he declined giving any answer to the first part of it , i will undertake to do it for him . dr. st. doth indeed say that the church of england doth not make her articles articles of faith , as the church of rome doth the articles of pope pius the fourth his creed . and did ever any divine of the church of england say otherwise ? it is true the church of rome from her insolent pretence of infallibility , doth make all things proposed by the church of equal necessity to salvation ; because the ground of faith is the churches authority in proposing things to be believed . but doth the church of england challenge any such infallibility to her self ? no. she utterly disowns it , in her very articles ; therefore she must leave matters of faith , as she found them ; i. e. she receives all the creeds into her articles and offices , but makes no additions to them of her own ; and therefore dr. st. did with great reason say , that the church of england makes no articles of faith , but such as have the testimony and approbation of the whole christian world and of all ages , and are acknowledged to be such by rome it self : from whence he doth justly magnifie the moderation of this church in comparison with the church of rome . r. p. but t. g. saith , that he hath degraded the articles of the church of england from being articles of faith , into a lower classe of inferiour truths . p. d. i perceive plainly t. g. doth not know what an article of faith means according to the sense of the church of england . he looks on all propositions made by the church as necessary articles of faith , which is the roman sense , and founded on the doctrine of infallibility ; but where the churches infallibility is rejected , articles of faith are such as have been thought necessary to salvation by the consent of the christian world , which consent is seen in the ancient creeds . and whatever doctrine is not contained therein though it be received as truth , and agreeable to the word of god , yet is not accounted an article of faith : i. e. not immediately necessary to salvation as a point of faith , but because of the dissentions of the christian world in matters of religion , a particular church may for the preservation of her own peace declare her sense as to the truth and falshood of some controverted points of religion , and require from all persons who are intrusted in the offices of that church a subscription to those articles , which doth imply that they agree with the sense of that church about them . r. p. but dr. st. saith from arch-bishop bramhall , that the church doth not oblige any man to believe them , but only not to contradict them , and upon this t. g. triumphs over dr. st. as undermining the doctrine and government of the church of england . p. d. why not over arch-bishop bramhall , whose words dr. st. cites ? and was he a favourer of dissenters , and an underminer of the church of england ? yet dr. st. himself in that place owns a subscription to them as necessary ; and what doth subscription imply less than agreeing with the sense of the church ? so that he saith more than arch-bishop bramhall doth . and i do not see how his words can pass , but with this construction , that when he saith , we do not oblige any man to believe them , he means as articles of faith , of which he speaks just before . but i do freely yield that the church of england doth require assent to the truth of those propositions which are contained in the thirty nine articles : and so doth dr. st. when he saith , the church requires subscription to them as inferiour truths , i. e. owning them to be true propositions , though not as articles of faith , but articles of religion , as our church calls them . r. p. if they are but inferiour truths , saith t. g. was it worth the while to rend asunder the peace of christendom for them ? is not this a very reasonable account , as i. s. calls it , of the grounds of the protestant religion , and a rare way of justifying her from the guilt of schism ? p. d. t. g. mistakes the matter . it was not our imposing negative points on others ; but the church of romes imposing false and absurd doctrines for necessary articles of faith , which did break the peace of christendom . we could have no communion with the church of rome unless we owned her supremacy , her canon of scripture , her rule of faith , or the equality of tradition and scripture , her doctrines of purgatory , invocation of saints , worship of images , transubstantiation , &c. and we were required not only to own them as true , which we know to be false ; but as necessary to salvation , which we look on as great hinderances to it . what was to be done in this case ? communion could not be held on other terms , than declaring false opinions to be true , and dangerous doctrines to be necessary to salvation . on such terms as these we must renounce our christianity , to declare that we believed falshoods for truths , and not barely as truths , but as necessary articles of faith. therefore what schism there was , the church of rome must thank her self for . and when this breach happened , our church thought it necessary to express her sense of these doctrines , that they were so far from being articles of faith , that they were false and erroneous , having no foundation either in scripture or antiquity : and required a subscription to this declaration , from such as are admitted to teach and instruct others . how could our church do less than she did in this matter , if she would declare her sense to the world , or take care of her own security ? and is this making negative articles of faith ; about which t. g. and e. w. and others , have made such senseless clamours ? when we only declare those things they would impose upon us to be so far from being articles of faith , that they are erroneous doctrines , and therefore are rejected by us . and this i take to be a reasonable account of the potestant religion ; which is more than i. s. hath given to those of his own church of his demonstrations . r. p. but since dr. st. grants the church of rome to hold all the essential points of faith , how can he charge her with idolatry , since idolatry is an errour against the most fundamental point of faith ? i pray answer to this , for this comes home to the business . p. d. i am glad to see you but coming that way . to this dr. st. hath already given a full and clear answer , in his late defence . ( . ) he saith , by the church of romes holding all essential points of faith no more is meant than that she owns and receives all the ancient creeds . ( . ) t. g. grants , that idolatry is giving the worship due to god to a creature ; if therefore a church holding the essential points of faith may give the worship due to god to a creature , then there is no contradiction between saying the church of rome holds all the essential points of faith , and yet charging it with idolatry . because idolatry is a practical errour , and therefore may be consistent with holding all the doctrinal points of faith ; no more being necessary to it , as dr. st. proves , than entertaining a false notion of divine worship , by which means it may really give gods worship to a creature , and yet be very orthodox in holding that gods worship ought not to be given to a creature . r. p. t. g. was aware of this answer , and thus he takes it off . to err , he saith , strictly speaking , is to teach that which is opposite to truth ; but if the church of rome teaches that the worship she gives to saints and images is not a part of the honour due to god , and yet it is ; then she errs against the second commandment , though she judges she doth not . p. d. what is this to the purpose ? the question is not whether idolatry doth not imply a practical errour against the second commandment ; but whether it be consistent with the doctrinal points of faith , such as are essential to the being of a church ? for of this sort of errours , all the dispute was , as is plain from dr st.'s words , which gave occasion to this objection . r. p. but is it not a fundamental errour to destroy the doctrine of the second commandment ? p. d. if it be , the more care had they need to have who put it out of their books , that it may not fly in their faces . but who ever reckoned the commandments among the articles of faith ? i do not deny it to be a very dangerous practical errour to destroy the doctrine of the second commandment ; or rather to take away the whole force of the precept ; but i say , this is none of those essential points of faith , which dr. st. spake of , and therefore this is no answer to him . r. p. therefore t. g. adds , that this doth not proceed upon a general thesis , whether some idolatrous practice may not consist with owning the general principles of faith ; but upon a particular hypothesis , whether the worship of god by an image , be not an errour against the doctrine of the second commandment , if that be to forbid men to worship him by an image ? and therefore if it be a fundamental point to believe that to be idolatry which god hath expresly forbidden in the law under the notion of idolatry , and that be the worshipping of him by an image , as dr. st. asserts ; 't is clear that the church of rome in telling men it is not idolatry , errs against a fundamental point , and he cannot according to his principles maintain his charge of idolatry without a contradiction . p. d. this is then the thing to be tryed ; and therefore we must judge of it by what dr. st. said , to which this is supposed to be a contradiction . did he ever say that the church of rome did not erre against the doctrine of the second commandment ? nay , he hath invincibly proved it hath . i say invincibly , since t. g. gives it up in these dialogues ; spending so many pages upon the repetition of his old arguments , and passing over all that elaborate discourse of dr. st. about the sense of the second commandment , on which the hinge of the controversie depends . if then dr. st. doth charge them with a very dangerous and pernicious errour in respect of this commandment , that could not be the fundamental errour he cleared the church of rome from , when he said , she held all essential points of faith , ( mark that ) and he explained himself purposely to prevent such a mistake , to mean such doctrinal points of faith as are essential to the constitution of a church and the true form of baptism ; now the question is , whether it be a contradiction for a man to say , that the church of rome doth hold all these essential points of faith , and yet is guilty of idolatry ? and how after all , hath t. g. proved it ? it is a fundamental point , saith he , to believe that to be idolatry which god hath forbidden as idolatry ; and so it is to believe that to be perjury , and theft and adultery , which god hath forbidden under their notion . but will any man say the true notion of adultery is a doctrinal point of faith ? although therefore it be granted that the church of rome do err fundamentally against the second commandment ; yet that doth not prove dr. st. guilty of a contradiction , because he spake not of practical errours , but of the doctrinal and essential points of faith. and now i hope we have done with all these preliminaries , and may come to the point of idolatry it self . r. p. hold a little , you are still too quick ; i have something more yet to say to you before we come to it . p. d. what is that ? r. p. i have a great deal to tell you out of mr. thorndikes just weights and measures , about the charge of idolatry and the mischievous consequences of it . p. d. to what end should you repeat all that ? i begin to think you were not in jest , when you said t. g. put in some things to fill up his book . dr. st. had before declared the great esteem he had for mr. thorndikes learning and piety ; but in this particular , he declared , that he saw no reason to recede from the common doctrine of the church of england , on the account of mr. thorndikes authority , or arguments . and i have already given you such an account of his opinion with respect to the church of rome , as i hope will take off mr. thorndikes testimonies being so often alledged against us by t. g. and his brethren . if t. g. had not purposely declined the main matters in debate between dr. st. and him , he would never have stuffed out so much of his book with things so little material to that which ought to have been the main design of it . r. p. but i have somewhat more to say to you , which is , that you charge t. g. with declining the dispute about the sense of the second commandment , whereas he doth speak particularly to it . p. d. i am glad to hear it ; i hope then he takes off the force of what dr. st. had said in his late defence about it . for i assure you it was much expected from him . r. p. what would you have a man do ? he produces at least four leaves of what he had said before : and then a little after , near two leaves more : and within a few pages , above two leaves again out of his old book ; and then tells how dr. st. spends above an hundred pages about the sense of the second commandment , whereas he neither removes the contradictions , nor answers the arguments of t. g. but criticizeth upon the exceptions of t. g. to the several methods for finding out the sense of the law ; but , saith he , what need so much pains and labour be taken , if the law be express ; and do not you think this enough about the second commandment ? p. d. no truly . nor you neither , upon any consideration . for the dr. in his discourse upon the second commandment , ( . ) hath manifestly overthrown t. g.'s notion of an idol , viz. of a figment set up for worship , by such clear and convincing arguments , that if t. g· had any thing to have said in defence of it , he would never have let it escaped thus . ( . ) (*) he hath proved the sense he gives of the commandment to be the same which the fathers gave of it . ( . ) (†) he takes off t. g.'s instances of worshipping before the ark and the cherubims ; and (*) the testimony of s. austin . ( . ) (†) he answers t. g.'s objections and clears the sense of the law by all the means a law can be well understood . and is all this , do you think , answered by t. g.'s repeating what he had said before ; or blown down by a puff or two of wit ? i do not know what t. g. thinks of it , but i do not find any understanding man takes this for an answer , but a meer put-off . so that i may well say , dr. st.'s proofs are invincible , when t. g. so shamefully retreats out of the field , and sculks under some hedges and thorns which he had planted before , for a shelter in time of need . r. p. but why did not dr. st. answer punctually to all that t. g. said ? p. d. because he did not think it material , if the main things were proved . r. p. bu● t. g. will think them unanswerable , till he receive satisfaction concerning them . p. d. that it may be is impossible to give a man , that hath no mind to receive it ; but if you please , let me hear the strength of what t. g. lays such weight upon , that he may have no such pretence for the future ; and lest the third time we meet with the same coleworts . r. p. doth not dr. st. make express scripture his most certain rule of faith ? doth not he on the other side deny any thing to be an article of faith , which is not acknowledged to be such by rome it self . then if god hath expresly forbidden the worship of himself by an image , it is an article of faith that he ought not to be worshipped by an image ; and since rome doth not acknowledge it , it is not an article of faith. therefore t. g. calls upon the dr. to speak out . is it , or is it not an article of faith ? but t. g. saith , he hath found out the mysterie of the business ( for he can find out mysteries , i assure you , as well as discover plots , and catch moles ) to gratifie the non-conformists , the articles of the church of england must pass only for inferiour truths ; but when the church of rome is to be charged with idolatry , then they are articles of faith : so that , as t. g. pleasantly saith , the same proposition taken irenically is an inferiour truth , but taken polemically it must be an article of faith , because expresly revealed in scripture . p. d. is this it which t. g. thought worth repeating at large ? surely it was for the sake of the clinch of irenically and polemically , and not for any shew of difficulty in the thing . for all the mist is easily scattered by observing a very plain distinction of an article of faith ; which is either taken , . for an essential point of faith , such as is antecedently necessary to the being of a christian church ; and so the creed is said to contain the articles of our faith , and in this sense dr. st. said the church of rome did hold all the essential points of faith which we did . . for any doctrine plainly revealed in scripture which is our rule of faith . and did dr. st. ever deny that the church of rome opposed some things clearly revealed in scripture ? nay , it is the design of his books to prove it doth . and if every doctrine which can be deduced from a plain command of scripture , is to be looked on as an article of faith , then that the cup is to be given to those who partake of the bread , that prayers are to be in a known tongue , will become articles of faith , and do you think dr. st. either irenically or polemically , did ever yield that the church of rome did not oppose these ? if t. g. lays so much weight on such slight things as these , i must tell you he is not the man i took him for : and i believe it was only civility in dr. st. to pass such things by . r.p. but t.g. would know , what he means by expresly forbidden , only that it is clear to himself , expecting that others should submit to his saying it , as the travellers did to polus in erasmus ; or that it is clear or manifest of it self ? and that it is not so , he saith , appears by the pains and wayes he takes to find it out . p. d. this is yet a degree lower . by clearly and expresly , dr. st. means that which is so to an unprejudiced mind . for there is nothing so plain , but men may cavil at it . not the being of god ; not the certainty of our senses ; not the differences of good and evil ; not the coming of the messias ; not the truth of the scriptures . but will t. g. say , that none of these are clear , because men are put to pains and several wayes to prove them ? if therefore dr. st. hath shewed that all the evasions of the force of the second commandment are meer cavils , and would take off as well the force of any other commandment , if men thought themselves as much concerned to do it ; i think he hath proved the sense of the commandment to be clear and express against the worship of god by an image . and for his friend polus , you know it doth not look well in conversation for a man to repeat his own jests . but you named a third passage t. g. repeats out of his former book . what is that , i pray ? r. p. that concerns dr. st.'s first way of finding out the sense of the law ; for , he saith , the law doth only expresly forbid bowing down to the images themselves , as the heathens did , but speaks not one word of the lawfulness , or unlawfulness of worshipping god himself by them ; and upon this he upbraids dr. st. that spending above a hundred pages about the sense of the second commandment , he neither endeavours to remove the contradictions , nor to answer the arguments of t. g. p. d. then truly he deserved pity , and to have his friends come in to help him , they are such wonderful contradictions and mighty arguments . but dr. st. hath at large proved , ( . ) that the heathens did not take the images themselves for gods ; in a large discourse to that purpose , and consequently this command was not express against the heathen idolatry in t. g.'s sense of it . ( . ) that the fathers did understand this commandment to be expresly against the worship of god by an image ; in another large discourse : which he concludes with those words of s. ambrose , non vult se deus in lapidibus coli , god will not be worshipped in stones . and is this nothing to the answering t. g.'s arguments ? ( . ) that the worship of god before the ark and the cherubims ( the only argument of t. g. ) doth not reach to the worship of god by images ; and this in another set discourse . ( . ) that god did afterwards explain his own law , by condemning the worship of himself by images ; in the case of the golden calf , and the calves of dan and bethel , and he punctually answers t. g.'s objections . and after all this , is it not great tenderness and modesty in t. g. to say , that dr. st. only criticizeth upon t. g. 's exceptions , and doth neither remove the contradictions , nor answer the arguments of t. g. ? i never yet saw plainer evidence of a forlorn cause , than these things give . by this taste , i begin to fear , when we come to the charge of idolatry , we shall find very little new , or material . however , being thus far engaged , i am resolved , god willing , to attend you quite through his late dialogues ; and if you please at our next meeting , we will enter upon the charge of idolatry : and i will undertake to make good the charge , and i shall expect from you t. g.'s answers . r. p. i will not fail ; and i pray brother fanatick , let us have your company , for i have a terrible charge against the church of england for bowing to the altar . f. c. i shall be glad to hear that with all my heart . the third conference , about the nature of idolatry . p. d. we are now entring upon a weighty business , and therefore without any preface to it , i begin . dr. st. in his late defence hath undertaken to clear the nature of idolatry , by considering two things . . whether it were consistent with the acknowledgement of one supreme god ? . wherein the nature of that divine worship lyes , which being given to a creature makes it idolatry ? . to clear the former , he considered , who those are , which by common consent are charged with idolatry , and from thence he supposed the best resolution of the question might be gathered ; and those were , ( . ) the ancient heathens , ( . ) modern heathens , ( . ) the arrians . and concerning these he proved , that they did all acknowledge one supreme god , and consequently the notion of idolatry could not consist in the worship of many independent deities . ( . ) as to the ancient heathens . ( . ) from the testimony of scripture . ( . ) from their own writers in the roman church , of whom he names twelve considerable ones . ( . ) from the fathers ; and there he shews from a multitude of plain testimonies , that the state of the controversie about idolatry between the fathers and heathens , was not about a supreme god which was acknowledged on both sides , but whether divine worship were to be given to any creatures on the account of any supposed excellency in themselves , or relation to god ? and so he draws the history of this controversie through the several ages of justin martyr , athenagoras , clemens of alexandria , origen , cyril , s. augustin , &c. in short , through all those who did with greatest reputation to christianity manage this cause against the heathen idolaters . ( . ) as to modern heathens ; two wayes . ( . ) from the testimony of your own writers concerning the brachmans , chineses , tartars , americans , africans , goths and laplanders . ( . ) from the testimony of the congregation of cardinals in a remarkable case about idolatry in china , wherein their resolution was desired . ( . ) as to the arrians , he proves from athanasius , gr. nazianzen , nyssen , basil , epiphanius , cyril , theodoret , s. chrysostom , s. ambrose , s. augustin ; that the arrians were unanimously charged with idolatry ; although they did acknowledge but one god , and supposed the greatest created excellencies to be in christ , and believed the worship of christ tended to the honour of the father . . as to the nature of divine worship . he proceeds in this method . . to shew what worship is ; which he distinguishes from honour , the one relating to bare excellency , the other to superiority and power ; which distinction he proves from the most eminent school divines . . what divine worship is ; viz. such a subjection of our selves to god as shews his peculiar soveraignty over us : from whence he proceeds to manifest , that there are some peculiar external acts of divine worship , which he proves , ( . ) from the nature and design of religious worship ; and here he enquires into the distinction of civil and religious worship ; which , he saith , as other moral actions , is to be taken from the circumstances of them : and from hence came the institution of solemn rites for religious worship . and the best divines of the roman church do allow , that there ought to be some peculiar external acts of divine worship ; which he likewise proves from the infinite distance between god and his creatures ; and from the remarkable testimonies of the heathens to that purpose . ( . ) from gods appropriating some external acts of worship to himself ; wherein he speaks to two things : . what those acts are which god hath appropriated to himself ; of which he reckons up six . . sacrifice . . religious adoration . . erection of temples and altars . . burning of incense . . solemn invocation . . vows . . how far gods appropriating these acts doth concern us ? which he thus resolves . . it is granted there must be some peculiar acts. . god is the best judge of them . . what he hath once appropriated cannot be made common till his will be declared . . christ hath made no alteration herein by his law. . the apostles suppose the same notion of idolatry to continue still . . the jews did esteem it idolatry to use those acts of worship towards any creature . where he shews that idolatry may be committed as many wayes as worship may become due to god. ( . ) from the sense of the christian church ; which hath condemned those for idolatry who have applyed these appropriate acts of worship to any thing besides god. . how the applying the acts of religious worship to a creature makes that worship idolatry ? where he explains , . what real honour we do allow to the saints on the account of their excellencies . . what worship we deny to them . ( . ) inward submission of our souls in prayer , dependence , and thanksgiving . ( . ) external and solemn acts of religious worship , which are given to saints in the church of rome : and he proves from unquestionable testimonies of antiquity , that the fathers did deny to be given to them . and so he concludes that discourse with a full and clear explication of a testimony of s. augustin against invocation of saints . this is a brief abstract of the design of dr. st.'s discourse concerning the nature of idolatry ; whose parts are too well considered and put together to be blown down with a puff or two of wit. let me now hear how t. g. hath acquitted himself in this matter , which we shall the better judge of , by having this scheme before us . r. p. i perceive you expect t. g. should have followed dr. st.'s method , and have answered him part by part ; but he was wiser than so ; for he charges him with three things . ( . ) that he makes vain , and endless , and unnecessary discourses . ( . ) that he ought to have laid down the true notion of idolatry from the nature of the thing , which he hath not done . ( . ) that he hath unfaithfully reported the words and sense of authors . after which , he disproves the parallel between the heathen and romish idolatry . p. d. this last , if you please , we will reserve to another conference ; for i believe the other three , will hold us long enough . i pray begin where t. g. doth . r. p. first , he complains much of the bulk of the book ; and brings in a kind of a taylors bill of the number of pages : imp. of t. g.'s notion of idolatry , p. . it. of the nature of divine worship , p. . it. of the controversie about images between christians and heathens , p. . it. of images in the christian church , p. . odd . it. of the sense of the second commandment , p. . it. of instances , and facings and linings , p. . sum. tot . p. . was not this enough to put any man out of humour ? p. d. no doubt ; when he considered he was to pay it all . and i do believe what he saith , that he was very uneasie when he read it ; and like the laconian in boccalini , who was condemned to read over guicciardines war of pisa : and desired rather to be condemned to the gallies . for there is nothing more troublesome to a man than to see that he owes more than he is ever able to pay . r. p. but t. g. shews how much of the bill might have been cut off . p. d. the shortest way had been to have thrown all into the fire , as no doubt he would have done , if it had been in his power , and that had been the most effectual discharge to dr. st. 's charge of idolatry . but do you think , it is a good answer to an indictment , to say it consisted of too many lines ? r. p. t. g. saith he ought to have proceeded more mathematically . p. d. how so ? r. p. by laying down only these four postulata . . that idolatry may consist with the acknowledgement of one supreme being . . that god ought to be worshipped according to his own appointment . . that the wiser heathens pretended they did not look on their images as gods , but as symbols of that being to which they gave divine worship . . that for the four first centuries , there was little or no use of images in the temples and oratories of christians . which as far as i understand t. g. he was willing to have granted him . p. d. are you sure of that ? if these things be fairly granted , they will go a great way toward the resolution of the present question . but i pray let me understand how far and in what sense ? r. p. for the first , that idolatry may consist with the acknowledgement of one supreme being : i perceive t. g. puts this limitation to it , at least as idolatry is taken by dr. st. for the giving external acts of worship , due only to god , to a creature . p. d. let us then lay up this at present , that real idolatrous worship is consistent with the acknowledgement of one supreme god ; which may be of use to us in this debate . r. p. for the second , t. g. saith , that it is no where denyed , but is supposed by him , when he saith , that if god have forbidden himself to be worshipped after such a manner , the giving him such worship will be dishonouring of him , though the giver intend it never so much for his honour , much more then , the giving acts of worship appropriated to him to another . p. d. this is very kind . for then if it appear , that god hath forbidden the worship of himself by an image , it follows that no intention of the person can excuse such worship from idolatry . r. p. for the third , concerning the practice of the wiser heathens , t. g. allows the dr. to make his best of it . p. d. then there may be idolatrous worship of images , where the images themselves are not made the objects of worship ; and consequently if such worship be forbidden in the second commandment , that cannot be understood only of bowing down to the images themselves . r. p. for the fourth , he saith , since the church hath a power in decreeing rites and ceremonies , it had been no prejudice to his cause , if it had been longer , before the use of images was brought into churches . p. d. if the church had looked on the worship of images as an indifferent rite , there had been some reason for what t. g. saith ; but the force of what dr. st. said , lay not meerly in their having no images in churches in the primitive times ; but in the reasons given by the primitive christians against the worship of them . from whence he hath at large proved that the primitive christians did look on the worship of images as utterly unlawful by the law of god , although the object represented did deserve worship . and this i take to be one of the most material discourses in dr. st.'s book , to the present controversie , and which he lays the greatest weight upon . for he insists upon these several particulars . ( . ) * that they judged such a representation of god by images to be unsuitable to his nature ; for which he produceth the testimonies of clemens alexandr . , justin martyr , athenagoras , origen , s. hierom , s. augustin and others . ( . ) † that they looked on the worship of images as repugnant to the will of god ; as being contrary to the second commandment , which did oblige christians . ( . ) * that to suppose that they looked on the worship of images as a thing indifferent , is to charge the primitive christians with great hypocrisie . ( . ) † that the christian church continued to have the same opinion about the worship of images after the pagan idolatry was suppressed . ( . ) * that it was no just excuse in the sense of the primitive church , that they worshipped a true object , or gave only an inferiour worship to the images , for the sake of those represented by them . ( . ) † that ignorance and superstition first brought in the worship of images , which was still condemned by the best divines of the church . ( . ) * that the worship of images came to be established in the church by very indirect means ; such as treason , calumnies , lyes , and burning and suppressing all books against it . ( . ) † that when it was established by the second council of nice , it was vehemently opposed by the western church at the council of francford : and that this council of nice was never owned in the western church for a general council till the reformation began . and now i pray was it possible for t. g. to overlook all these things ? or was it fair to pretend to answer dr. st.'s book , wherein all these things are , and yet to pass them over , as if they had never been written ? if this be the way of making just discharges , i am afraid t. g.'s credit cannot hold out long ; for this is not after the rate of five shillings in the pound : and for all that i see , dr. st. may take out the statute against him . however , i shall consider what he pretends to discharge , and if his payment be not good in that neither , his word will hardly be taken for any just discharge more . i pray go on . r. p. for the fifth chapter , of the sense of the second commandment , t. g. saith , if god hath there expresly prohibited the giving any worship to himself by an image , as dr. st. affirms , there needed no more than to expose the law as in a table in legislative gothick ( as it is done by him , p. . ) with the addition only of a finger in the margent to point to the words for every one that runs to read them . p. d. and must this pass for an answer to dr. st.'s discourse about the sense of the second commandment ? i am really ashamed of such trifling in a matter of so great importance . i know not whether it were the legislative gothick or no , or a finger on the wall , but something or other about that commandment hath so affrighted you in the church of rome , that you dare not let it be seen in your ordinary books of devotion . as for the cavil about expresly , i have answered it already . r. p. for his last chapter , t. g. saith , there needed no more than to say , that the church of england doth not allow any worship to be given to the altar . p. d. is it possible for t. g. to think to fob us off with such answers as these ? barely to tell his adversary , he might have spared this and the other discourse . r. p. but t. g. saith , this is the most material thing in that chapter . p. d. say you so ? was the wise council of nice , so immaterial a thing ? that it must now be quite abandoned , and no kind of discharge be so much as offered to be made for it ? was there nothing material in what concerns the charge of contradictions , paradoxes , school-disputes , & c. ? and all the other instances waved to come to this of bowing to the altar ? there must be some mysterie in this ; and i think i have found it , the patronus bonae fidei inveighs bitterly against this , as worse than egyptian idolatry , and reproaches dr. st. upon account of his defending it : and t. g. finds it much easier to reproach than to answer . r. p. the truth is , this patronus bonae fidei doth t. g. knights service ; for when he hath no mind to appear himself , he serves him for a knight of the post , who runs blindfold upon any thing that may discredit the church of england ; two or three such rare men would ease us of a great deal of trouble . for t. g. takes between five and six pages together out of him in this place , besides what he hath taken up at interest upon other occasions . p. d. is this the just discharge , to borrow so much out of the fanatick stock ? setting then aside what is brought over of the old account , which had been reckoned for before ; and how very many material things are never entred , which he was accountable for ; and how much he hath borrowed upon the bona fides of the fanatick historian , all the rest will amount to a very pitiful discharge . but since no better payment can be had , let us at least examine this : for this bona fides is a kind of republican publick faith , which no body will trust twice , not so much as for bodkins and thimbles . f. c. hold sir. you love alwayes to be rubbing upon old sores ; have you forgot the act of oblivion ? you know we dare not speak what we think of those times now ; and is that fair to accuse when we dare not answer ? mind your own business , defend the church of england if you can , in that idolatrous practice of bowing to the altar . i alwayes thought what it would come to , when dr. st. went about the charge of idolatry upon the principles of the church of england ; i knew he could never defend himself but upon good orthodox fanatick principles , as you call them . now sir , you have him at an advantage , joyn your force and t. g.'s with that of the patronus bonae fidei , and if the geese follow the fox close , you will keep him from ever stirring more . p. d. i thank you for your good will to the cause , and that is all i fear from you ; you only add to the number , and help to preserve the roman capitol by your noise . r. p. you shall not escape thus ; what say you to bowing to the altar , is not that as great idolatry , as worship of images ? p. d. do you not remember the answer dr. st. hath already given to this objection ? r. p. i tell you i read none of his books , and know not what he hath written , but as i find it in t. g. p. d. what is that ? r. p. have i not told you already , that the church of england doth not allow any worship to be given to the altar ? p. d. and is not that to the purpose ? for dare any of you say so of the church of rome in respect of images ? r. p. but t. g. saith , this is not the meaning of the canon which dr. st. produces : for , he saith , the canon only implyes that they give no religious worship to it , but they do not deny any kind of worship to be given to it ; and dr. st. himself grants that there is a reverence due to sacred places . p. d. now your bolt is shot i hope i may have leave to say something both in behalf of the canon and dr. st. ( . ) for the canon , i say as dr. st. did , that it denyes any worship to be given to the altar , for it makes the adoration to be immediately made to the divine majesty , without respect to the altar , either as the object or means of worship , which i prove , ( . ) from the introduction . for can any words be more express than those , in the introduction ? for as much as the church is the house of god , dedicated to his holy worship ( not to that of the altar ) and therefore ought to mind us both of the greatness and goodness of his divine majesty ( not of the sacredness of the altar ) certain it is that the acknowledgement thereof , not only inwardly in our hearts , but also outwardly with our bodies , must needs be pious in it self , profitable unto us and edifying unto others . if the intention of the canon had been to have given any worship to the altar , the introduction must have related to that , and not to the divine majesty . ( . ) from the recommendation ; we therefore think it meet and behooveful , and heartily commend it to all good and well-affected people , members of this church , that they be ready to tender unto the lord , ( not to the altar ) the said due acknowledgement by doing reverence and obeysance both at their coming in and going out of the said churches , &c. according to the most ancient custom of the primitive church in purest times , and of this church also for many years of the reign of queen elizabeth . ( . ) from the express disowning the giving any religious worship to the communion table . which is not meant of an individuum vagum , but of this act of adoration , which is the religious worship here spoken of ; and thereby no kind of worship is intended to the altar , but only to god. and which is more plain yet by what follows , that it is not done out of an opinion of the corporal presence of christs body on the table , or in the mystical elements ; but only ( mark that ) for the advancement of gods majesty , and to give him alone , ( not the altar together with him ) that honour and glory which is due unto him and no otherwise . can any words be plainer than these ? they want only legislative gothick , and a finger in the margent , for t. g. to understand them . ( . ) archbishop laud who certainly understood the meaning of this canon , pleads only for the worship to be given immediately to god himself . god forbid , saith he , that we should worship any thing but god himself : and he adds , if there were no table standing , he would worship god when he came into his house . and he calls it still , doing reverence to almighty god , but only towards his altar : and he saith , the people did understand this fully , and apply the worship to god , and to none but god. ( . ) when the introducing this , was made one of the articles of his charge by the commons ; his answer was , that his bowing was only to worship god , not the altar , and i hope it is no offence or treason to worship god in the kings own chapel , or to induce others to do the like . ( . ) i do not find any of our divines who pleaded most for it , do contend for any more than worshipping god towards the altar , and not giving any worship to the altar ; the arguments they used were for determining the local circumstance of worship , and not for making the altar the object of it . and the difference between these two dr. st. hath at large cleared . r. p. but cannot we say , that we only worship god before an image , and do not give any religious worship to the image , and then the case is parallel ? p. d. you may say so , and you sometimes do , to deceive ignorant people ; but you cannot say it truly . for ( . ) your councils have determined that religious worship is to be given to images ; our canon saith , it is not to be given to the altar , therefore the case is far from being parallel . and dr. st. hath fully proved , that the nicene council did require religious worship to be given to images ; and anathematizes all who do it not . and utterly rejects those that say they are to be had only for memory , and out of some kind of honour or reverence ; for nothing but religious worship would satisfie them . and the acts of that worship are expressed to be not only bowing but prostration , kissing , oblation of incense and lights ; and dr. st. hath elsewhere shewed , that all the acts of worship which the heathens did perform to their images in old rome , are given to images in modern rome . ( . ) those in the church of rome who have only contended for the worship of god before the image , have been condemned by others as savouring of heresie , who say it is a matter of faith in the roman church , that images are to be worshipped truly and properly ; and that the contrary opinion is dangerous , rash , and sovouring of heresie , which is likewise proved at large by dr. st. r. p. but doth not dr. st. himself allow a reverence due to sacred places ? p. d. he doth so . but do you observe the difference he puts between that and worship ? i will endeavour to make his distinct notion of these things plain to you . first , he distinguishes between honour and worship : ( . ) honour he makes to be the esteem of excellency ; either inward , only in the mind . either outward , in acts suitable to that estimation . and this excellency may be twofold , . personal . . relative . . personal ; and that threefold ; . civil ; in regard of humane society , as that of abraham to the children of heth. . moral ; on account of moral excellencies ; either natural , or acquired . . spiritual ; in regard of supernatural graces : and that may be given two wayes , ( . ) to the persons as present ; which is religious respect : as that of nebuchadnezzar to daniel , dan. . . of abraham to the angels , gen. . . ( . ) to them as absent ; and this is religious honour : and it lyes chiefly in thanksgiving to god for them , and celebrating their memories ; because the honour of divine graces ought to redound chiefly to the giver of them . . relative : from the relation which things have to what we esteem on the account of its own excellency . . civil relation to our friends , or strangers whom we esteem ; and so we set a value on their pictures , on their letters or hand-writing , or any thing belonging to them . . spiritual relation to god and his worship ; and the regard to these he calls reverence . and that lies in these things : ( . ) discrimination from common use . ( . ) consecration to a sacred use . ( . ) suitable vsage of them in regard of that relation . but if you ask wherein the difference of this lies from worship , he saith , from the greatest divines of your church , that ( . ) worship hath a respect to power and superiority ; and that is . civil ; in regard of the power and authority of magistrates . . religious ; in regard of gods peculiar soveraignty over us , and that is twofold , . internal in submission , dependence . . external ; which must be , . such as express our submission and dependence ; as . sacrifice . . solemn invocation . . adoration . . vows . . swearing by him , &c. . they must be peculiar to himself . . from the dictate of nature , as to the peculiarity of gods soverainty . . from the will of god , which appropriates such acts to himself . . from the consent of nations and the christian church . therefore the giving that worship which is due to god , and doth express our subjection to him , to any thing besides him , is violation of the rights of gods soveraignty ; and if it be given to any creature , it receives its denomination from the nature of that creature to which it is given . ( . ) to animate creatures . angels . good. bad. dead men . saints . wicked . brutes of all sorts . ( . ) to inanimate . natural . elements . minerals . plants . artificial ; made to represent the objects of worship , and therefore called images . which is properly idolatry , being the worship of a representation ; but because that word idol is extended to any creature to which the worship proper to god is given , therefore every such kind of worship is in scripture , and by the christian church called idolatry . and by this scheme of dr. st.'s notion of these things , you may easily understand the difference he puts between reverence and worship . r. p. but t. g. saith , the church of rome requires by the terms of communion with her , no more than reverence , or honorary respect to images . p. d. why doth t. g. go about thus to impose on his readers without answering what dr. st. had produced to the contrary ? from three things . . from the decrees of the second council of nice . . from the constant opinion of their most eminent divines , both before , and after the council of trent . . from the publick and allowed practises of their church . . in consecration of images for worship ; with forms prescribed in the roman pontifical . . in supplication before them , with prostrations and all other acts of worship which the heathens used towards them . . in solemn processions with images , with the same kind of pomp and ceremony which was used in heathen rome . and after all this can t. g. have the confidence to say , this is only honorary respect without answering to any one of these particulars , which were purposely alledged to prove the contrary ? r. p. but now sir look to your self , for the patronus bonae fidei knocks all down before him , and proves bowing to the altar practised in the church of england to be worse than popish or egyptian idolatry . p. d. i hope not worse than the power of excommunication , which the same excellent advocate for fanaticks hath bestowed as ill names upon and with as little reason : but such as it is i am prepared to receive it . r. p. the patronus bonae fidei saith , that , however dr. st. wheadled and blinded with preferments ( for that is the meaning of t. g.'s &c. ) endeavours to palliate this kind of adoration , and to vindicate it from the crime of idolatry , yet i doubt not to affirm , that this bowing outvies the idolatry both of egyptians and romanists , not only in horrible iniquity and enormitie , but in madness and folly . f. c. who is this patronus bonae fidei , you speak so much of ? he is a good man i warrant him . he speaks home to the business . p. d. yes if ignorance and confidence doth it : for never did man betray more than your advocate in this saying . f. c. he will prove it i warrant you . p. d. just as you did kneeling at the communion to be idolatry ; if so well . but first for the roman idolatry . r. p. it is not , saith he , so much madness in them to adore the lord jesus under the species of bread , as it is an error in them to believe transubstantiation . but it is an hypochondriacal madness , and giddy-brained stupidity for men to perform adoration towards that place , where christ is no more present than any where else , and where neither the table , nor altar , nor any thing that is set upon the table ( unless perchance a clean towel , two books richly bound , or a pair of candlesticks with two candles in them , not to be lighted , till their minds be quite drunk with popery ) represent either christ or his image . a fanatical adoration he calls it , without any object . p. d. call you this proving ? it is rather raving and foaming at the mouth . this is such biting as may endanger an hydrophobia . there is no arguing with such a man , but in a dark room and under good keepers . but that you may take no advantage by his sayings ; how can it be idolatry without an object ? i.e. idolatry without an idol . but can there be no object of worship but what is visible ? what doth he worship himself ? or rather whom do his clients the fanaticks worship ? nothing ? because not a visible object . is not adoration a part of worship ? if not , it is no idolatry to give it to an image . if it be , then bowing to an invisible object in a place dedicated to divine worship is giving to god that worship , which being given to an image makes it idolatry . i pray sir do you answer for him . f. c. i understand you not . p. d. i thought so . but i will endeavour to make you understand me . is the bowing down to an image idolatry ? f. c. yes , without all doubt . p. d. is not idolatry giving to a creature the worship that is due to god ? f. c. yes . p. d. how can that be giving to a creature the worship due to god ; if it be not lawful to give this worship to god which you give to the creature ? f. c. i know not what you mean. p. d. not yet ? is not adoration of an image , idolatry ? f. c. yes , i told you so once already . p. d. then adoration is to be given to god. how else can the giving it to a creature make it idolatry ? f. c. i do not well understand you ; but as far as i can guess , you speak of bodily worship ; but alas ! we know that god must be worshipped in spirit and in truth . p. d. who denies that ? but observe what follows , then no man is guilty of idolatry , that doth not worship an image in spirit and in truth : but the law forbids bowing down to them and worshipping of them ; do you think that bowing down is meant of the mind or of the body ? f. c. what is it you would have by all these questions ? p. d. no more but this , that it is lawful to give external adoration to the divine majesty . f. c. and what then ? p. d. is it lawful to give god that worship , ( which it is lawful to give absolutely ) in a place set apart for his worship ? f. c. that is a strange question indeed . p. d. see now , what you have brought your self to ; to acknowledge that to be lawful which you so rashly called idolatry . f. c. what is that ? p. d. bowing in the church , in testimony of our adoration of the divine majesty . f. c. that is not it ; but it is bowing to the altar . p. d. who knows best ? those that made the canon or you ? they declare they meant nothing else than what i have said ; and deny any religious worship to be given to the altar . and would not you think it hard for us to accuse you for worshipping your hats in prayer , because you put them before your faces when you pray ; as you do us for worshipping the altar , because we bow towards it ? f. c. but you look towards the altar when you bow . p. d. and are not your eyes upon your hats when you pray ? and is not prayer a part of gods immediate worship ? f. c. but we call it bowing to the altar . p. d. we may as well call yours , praying to the hat. f. c. some do assign the reason of their worship from the communion table , and we never do from our hats . p. d. they do not assign the reason of their worship ; but the reason of that circumstance of it , why that way rather than another ; which they parallel with the jews worshipping of god towards the ark and the cherubims , which yet were no objects of divine worship , either by gods appointment , or the jewish practice , or in the opinion of some of the most learned divines , even of the roman church ; who make the most advantage they can of it ; as dr. st. hath at large proved in his answer to t. g. ; and i do not hear of any reply t. g. hath made to it . r. p. but the patronus bonae fidei saith , the papists have more reason to worship christ on the supposition of transubstantiation , than you have to worship — p. d. what ? speak out . the altar ? we deny it to be any object of worship to us : if he means , than to worship god with external adoration towards the altar , let him do that , which he never yet did , prove what he saith ; viz. that there is more reason to worship christ under the bread on supposition of transubstantiation , than for our giving external adoration to the divine majesty . for to give this adoration to god needs no other supposition but of his infinite majesty and omnipresence ; but to worship christ on the altar under the species of bread , doth not only suppose the truth of one of the most absurd suppositions in the world , that the substance of the bread is changed into the body of christ , and the body of christ is there invisibly present under the species of bread : but it supposes likewise these things . . that the body of christ as united with the species of bread is a proper object of divine adoration : i. e. that these two do make up one entire object of divine worship ; and then it follows that the sacramental species are a partial object of divine adoration , for whatever goes to make up an object entire must have share with it ; which is quite another thing from an accidental connexion , as of a princes robes together with his person ; for no man ever said the princes garments made up with his person an object fit to be kneeled to in token of subjection . but here is an union supposed between christs body and the accidents , and such an union by vertue whereof divine worship is directed to the species of bread , and consequentially to the body of christ as united thereto . . it supposeth , that the body of christ being thus united with the species of bread may receive all that worship which is due to god alone . which is not very easie to prove . because it doth not follow , that where-ever a body is , there those things must be which do not result by necessary concomitancy from the being of a body . for since it doth not follow by vertue of the hypostatical union that where-ever the divinity is , the humane nature of christ must be there also ; how doth it necessarily follow , that where-ever the body of christ is , the divinity is so present as to make that body become an object of divine adoration ? we say the foot is united to the soul as well as the head , but do we therefore say that whatever is in the soul is equally present in the foot as in the head ? as that the foot reasons , considers , directs as the head doth . it is not therefore bare union but the manner of presence , which doth make an object fit for adoration . that presence ought to be ( if not glorious and becoming the divine majesty in that respect ) yet so well attested , as the divinity of christ was in his humane nature , by the voice of angels , by testimony of god himself from heaven , by miracles , by prophecies , &c. but here is nothing like this ; no evidence being given of the divine presence under the elements , neither from sense , nor reason , nor scripture . for the scripture is only pretended to speak of the body of christ , and not of his divinity . r. p. but by vertue of the hypostatical union where-ever the body of christ is , his divine nature must be present too . p. d. that i know very well is commonly said by you ; but i pray consider these two things . ( . ) if the body of christ may be present by reproduction of the same body ; as some of your greatest and latest divines have asserted ; then there is no such necessity of concomitancy of the divinity of christ ; because they say , god may reproduce the same body without all the accidents of it , and consequently without the hypostatical vnion . ( . ) by the same way of concomitancy they may hold the persons of the father and holy ghost to be under the species , and to be there worshipped . for where the body of christ is , there the soul is ; where soul and body is , there the divinity is ; where the divinity is , there the person of the son is ; and where the person of the son is , there the persons of the father and holy ghost are too . r. p. you may account this an absurdity , but we account it none at all : yea some of our divines have said , if the holy trinity were not every where , yet it would be in the eucharist , by vertue of this concomitancy . p. d. i do not now meddle with your opinions ; i only consider the patronus bonae fidei and his brethren , who do look on these as absurdities , and yet are so foolish to say , that our worshipping god towards the altar is more absurd than your worshipping christ on the altar , on supposition of transubstantiation . but why worse than egyptian idolatry , i beseech you ? r. p. the egyptians , saith he , pretended some colour for their idolatry , as than an ape , or a cat , or a wolf , &c. had some participation of the divinity ; but those that bow down to a wooden table are themselves stocks : with much more to that purpose . p. d. is such a man to be endured in a christian common-wealth ( not to say a church , for excommunication he regards not ) who parallels the adoration given only to the divine majesty ( as our church professeth ) with the worship of an ape , or a cat , or a wolf , & c ? nay he makes the egyptian idolatry more reasonable than our worship of god. the only thing that can excuse him is rage and madness ; and therefore i leave him to his keeper . but i pray tell me , was it meer kindness to the church of england which made t. g. to produce all these passages at full length out of the patronus bonae fidei ? or out of pure spite to dr. st. by so often repeating the passage of his being delinitus & occaecatus ? and why in such a place , where he pretends only to give an account of dr. st.'s vain and endless discourses , doth he bring in this at large ? is it only for his comfort to let him see , there is one body at least in the world , more foolish and impertinent than he ? we have seen enough of what t. g. ought not to have done , let us now see what he saith dr. st. ought to have done . r. p. the first thing to be done in a dispute , is to settle the state of the controversie upon its true grounds , by laying down the true notion of the matter in debate ; therefore dr. st. ought in the first place to have given us the true notion of idolatry in the nature of the thing ; and then to have shewn that notion to have agreed to the honour and veneration which the church of rome in her councils declares may be given to the images of christ and the saints : but he chose rather to dazle the eyes of the reader with the false lights of meer external acts , the obscure practice even of wiser heathens , and the clashing of school-divines . p. d. now i hope we are come to something worthy of consideration . i like the method of proceeding very well . and i like dr. st.'s book the better , because i think he pursued the right method , beginning first with the nature of idolatry and divine worship ; and then coming to the first particular of image-worship , which he hath handled with great care and exactness in respect of your councils as well as your practices and school-divines . r. p. it is true , he proposed well at first , but like a preacher that hath patched up a sermon out of his note-book , he names his text , and then takes his leave of it . for , what he was to speak to , was idolatry in the nature of the thing , independently of any positive law , whereas he speaks only of an idolatry forbidden by a positive law ; but if there be no idolatry antecedent to a positive prohibition , the heathens could not be justly charged with idolatry . p. d. in my mind , he did not recede from his text at all , but pursued it closely ; but you are uneasie at his application , and therefore find fault with his handling his text. what could a man speak to more pertinently as to idolatry in the nature of the thing , than to consider , what that is , which is acknowledged to be idolatry both in the heathens and arrians ; what that was which the primitive church accounted idolatry in them ; what opinons those have of god , whom the roman church do charge with idolatry ; wherein the nature of divine worship consists , not only with respect to positive commands , but the general consent of mankind ; did * he not expresly argue from the reason and design of solemn religious worship abstractly from positive laws ? did he not shew † from many testimonies , that the heathens did look on some peculiar rites of divine worship as sacred and inviolable , that they chose rather to dye , than to give them any but a divine object ? it is true , after this , he enquires into the law of god , and what acts of worship he had appropriated to himself ; and was there not great reason to do so ? are we unconcerned in the laws god made for his worship ? in my apprehension , this was the great thing t. g. had to do , to prove that gods law about worship was barely ceremonial , and only respected the jews ; but that we are left to the liberties of the law of nature , about religious worship : but he neither doth this , nor if he had done it , had he overthrown dr st.'s book . for he proves in several places , that the heathens had the same distinctions of soveraign and inferiour worship ; absolute and relative , which are used in the roman church ; and if these do excuse now , they would have excused them , who by scripture and the consent of the christian church are condemned for idolatry . and judge you now , whether dr. st. took leave of his text , whether he did not speak to idolatry in the nature of the thing ? r. p. but he saith , the heathens could not understand the nature and sinfulness of idolatry if not from some law of god ; which is in effect to clear the heathens from idolatry , till that law was delivered to them ; whereas s. paul saith , they had a law written in their hearts , whereby they might understand it ; and dr. st. ought to have shewn wherein the deordination and sinfulness of idolatry did consist antecedently to any positive prohibition ; and till this be done , he can make no parallel between the heathen idolatry and that of the roman church . p. d. i am glad to find any thing that looks like a difficulty , which may give an occasion of farther thoughts about this weighty matter , and of clearing the doctors mind concerning it . herein i shall endeavour to explain these two things . . how far dr. st. doth make the nature and sinfulness of idolatry to depend on the law of god. . wherein the sinfulness of idolatry doth consist abstractly from a positive law. . how far he makes the sinfulness of it to depend on a positive law. . he supposes natural religion to dictate these things . . that god ought to be solemnly worshipped . . that this worship ought to be peculiar to the divine nature in regard of his soveraignty over us , and the infinite distance between him and his creatures . . that the giving this solemn worship which is due to god to any creature , is the invading the rights of his soveraignty . thence he shews from aquinas , that worship is not given to god because he needs it , but that the belief of one god may hereby be confirmed in us by external and sensible acts , which cannot be done unless there be some peculiar acts of his worship . and external worship is a profession of internal ; acts being expressive of our minds as well as words . thence he determines , that idolatry is a sin of the highest nature , because it invades gods peculiar rights ; and implyes blasphemy in it , because it takes away from god the peculiarity of his dominion . are not these arguments drawn from the nature of the thing , and not meerly from a positive law ? . notwithstanding these dictates of natural reason concerning the worship of god , yet he supposes mankind to have been so corrupted as to have lost the sense of the sinfulness of giving divine worship to creatures . which , he saith , they did chiefly on a threefold supposition . ( . ) that god committed the government of the world under him to some inferiour deities . or , ( . ) that god was the soul of the world , and therefore the worship given to the parts of it did redound to him . or ( . ) that external adoration was below him , and that the service due to god was that of our minds , and the other might be given to creatures . . that god saw it necessary to revive the peculiarity of his worship by his law given in the decalogue ; which although given to the jews , was of an eternal and immutable nature , being not built on any reason peculiar to them , but common to all mankind ; and on this account the christian church did look on the same law as obliging all christians ; as the doctour hath proved in several places before cited . . that when the apostles went abroad to reclaim the world from idolatry , they made use of no other notion of it , than what was received among the jews ; and by the reasons on which the law of god was founded , they convinced the world of that sin of idolatry , which by the corruption of mankind , and the custom of the world they had lost the sense of . and this was plainly the meaning of dr. st.'s words to any unprejudiced mind , as appears by laying these things together ; which are all contained in the same discourse . if we say the gentiles had lost the sense of other sins , as it is evident they had , and the apostles made use of the law of god to convince them ; doth it hence follow that the sinfulness of those things did barely depend upon a positive law ? and therefore the notion of idolatry may be said to be new , not as though it were not against the principles of natural religion , but because they had lost the sense of them : so the law of moses was a new law though it revived the law of nature in its moral precepts ; the doctrine of christ was a new doctrine to the world although most agreeable to the principles of natural reason . ( . ) the sinfulness of idolatry according to natural religion consists in these things . ( . ) in taking away the due sense of the distance between god and his creatures : which is a violation of the rights of his soveraignty , and consequently it is crimen laesae majestatis divinae , or treason against the divine majesty . ( . ) in neglecting to give god the worship which was proper to him . and this was the consequent of idolatry ; and not as though the nature of idolatry did lye barely in not giving to god the worship due to him , as t. g. seems to suggest : but when men did accustome themselves to the worship of idols , they grew so fond of their own inventions , that they had five ave maries for one pater noster , and so the worship of god came to be almost lost in the croud of deities which they joyned with him . ( . ) in worshipping bad spirits , instead of good ones ; which craftily insinuated themselves among the idolaters under the pretence of inferiour deities . for so the people still believed them to be good spirits , and their learned men defied all those who said they worshipped any other , as dr. st. hath shewed ; yet the christians proved they were evil , because they received that worship from them , which the good ones would not do . ( . ) in disparaging the divine nature by making images to represent him , ( which suggested mean thoughts of god to their minds , lessening the apprehensions of the greatness of his majesty ) and hoping to please god by worshipping such representations of him . which he thought so dishonourable to himself , that he forbids it by a severe law , and punished the transgressours of it ; and from hence the christian church hath accounted the same thing unlawful to them , because so dishonourable to god. ( . ) in taking away that dependence upon god , which he expects from his creatures . for when they suppose that god hath committed the care of these things to any inferiour beings , they are apt to make their addresses to them more frequently because of a vicinity of nature to them ; and to depend upon them for help in time of need ; which takes off that entire trust in god which is most agreeable to his wisdom , goodness and providence . ( . ) in giving divine worship to vile and wicked men instead of god. this was an aggravation of idolatry , and increased the sinfulness of it ; although the nature of idolatry doth not lye in giving divine worship to bad men , but to any creatures . and in this particular lay the abominable sinfulness of the poetical idolatry among the greeks and romans , which was in this respect worse than of the most barbarous nations we ever read of . ( . ) the more vile the practices , the more mean the submissions , the more gross the errours of idolaters were , the greater was the sinfulness of idolatry . hence the filthy and obscene actions of the eastern , greek and roman idolatries ; the mean submissions and the gross errours of the egyptian idolatries heightned the sinfulness of them . these are the main things wherein the sinfulness of idolatry did consist , abstractly from any positive law. you see how freely i give them to you upon such an invitation , and much good may they do you . if dr. st. had thought t. g. had desired any such thing from him , i do believe he would have added not only a seventh , but an eighth chapter for his sake on such a subject as this , which it is so easie to inlarge upon . but i stop for fear t. g. should think i am only patching up a sermon out of note-books , yet i think i have not taken leave of my text. r. p. did you ever hear of the speaking trumpet ? p. d. what hath the speaking trumpet to do with idolatry ? i am afraid i waked you out of some pleasant dream , you talk so far off from the business . now i think of it , i have found it by the train of thoughts , in mr. hobs his way . text led you to preaching , and preaching to the speaking trumpet , because of the rare invention of the virtuoso to have one parson to preach to a whole county . r. p. no , that is not it . t. g. brings it in on the occasion of this dispute . p. d. doth he truly ? but how comes it in ? as the man brought in hercules into his sermon by head and shoulders ? r. p. t. g. is a man of a great reach ; and therefore he may be allowed to bring in a thing , which another man would never have thought of . p. d. but i pray how ? r. p. you know the virtuoso argued thus , if the speaking trumpet might be made to carry the voice a league , then eight mile about , if eight mile , then round a whole county , and then why not from one nation to another , there being no stop in art ? p. d. this is very ridiculous ; but how doth t. g. apply it ? r. p. to dr. st.'s argument against relative worship ; who saith that by vertue of that , men may worship the sun , the stars , the earth , or any other creature . p. d. and doth not the argument hold ? r. p. no ; t. g. saith , it is like the virtuoso's arguing about the speaking trumpet . p. d. i pray tell how . in my mind t. g. rather imitates the virtuoso's swiming on the table ; for he puffs and blows , and moves all the joynts of his body , but he is on the table still . the difficulty remains just where it was ; and the speaking trumpet takes away none of the force of it . for the parity of reason holds in one case , which it is ridiculous to imagine in the other . r. p. t. g. saith , there is a conformity between it , and the extension of worship to any creature . for , he saith , there is a stop in nature . p. d. how and where ? for why may not i worship god in any creature as well as by an image ? where are the measures and bounds fixed , that thus far we may go and no farther ? why may we not worship trees , and fountains , earth , and water , and the whole host of heaven as well as an image ? if we have due apprehensions of god in our minds as the creator of them , and do not suffer our worship to rest absolutely on the creatures , but intend to carry it at last to god , and to fall only after an inferiour manner upon them . i cannot for my heart find out this stop in nature . for the reason of relative worship as to an image is bare imagination , supposing that person to be present who deserves worship : but in the worship of the creatures , there is a real presence of the divinity , and a certain relation which the creatures have to god ; why therefore may i not worship god in any of his creatures , as well as by an image ? and so the ancient idolatry of the world , which the christian religion rooted out , may by the help of this trick of relative worship be revived again . r. p. you run too fast . for t. g. saith , the creatures ever since sense prevailed against reason , are become like stumbling-blocks to the souls of men , and a snare to the feet of the unwise , to allure and draw them to the worship of them . p. d. and do you think images ( but that they are set so high ) have not more of the nature of stumbling-blocks in them ? are they such immaterial and insensible things , when s. augustine saith , their very fashion and shape is apt to move men more , and the likeness to a living being prevails more on the affections of miserable men to worship them , than their knowledge that they are not living doth to the contempt of them ; as dr. st. observed . r. p. but t. g. adds , that those very divines of the church of rome who do admit the consequence in speculation , and do not condemn the practice of it in philosophical and contemplative men , who consider the creatures purely as the works of god , and as it were behold him present in them ; do notwithstanding utterly condemn the common and promiscuous use of it in the vulgar , as exposing them to manifest danger of being seduced by the tempting beauty and astonishing power of the creatures , to forget the creator and worship them . p. d. what is become of the speaking trumpet now ? and of the stop in nature ? all the danger , it seems , is in the dulness and stupidity of the people . and yet , if i mistake not , t. g. hath provided against this , when he saith , the difference is so great between vulgar heathens and christians , as to the believing in one god the father almighty , maker of heaven and earth , and of all things visible and invisible . if the common people have so firm and settled a notion of this in their minds , they may as easily pass from the scale of creatures to the creatour , as from an image to what is represented by it . is there so much danger they should stop in the creatures ; and none at all they should stop in images ; when himself confesseth , it is idolatry to worship the images themselves ? and since dr. st ▪ hath shewn from their own divines , how many wayes idolatry may be committed in the worship of images . ( . ) if proper latria or divine worship be given to an image , it becomes an idol . nay bellarmine saith , that those who worshipped an image of christ with divine honours , although it were for the sake of christ , and not of the image , did commit idolatry . therefore , he saith , those were condemned for hereticks , who gave divine worship to the image of christ. if then the people happen to give divine worship to an image , although they no not believe it to be so , yet this doth not excuse them from idolatry ; for , saith he , although a man pretend in words , the worship to be relative , or for the sake of god , or christ ; yet it being divine worship , he doth really do it absolutely and for themselves . ( . ) when images are worshipped as true representations of the divine nature . ( . ) when images are worshipped for the sake of any sanctity , vertue or divinity abiding in them . but tell me now , whether common people are not in danger of any of these things , as much at least as of resting in the creatures ? is it not as easie for them to forget the distinction of absolute and relative worship , or to fancy god to be like the images of him ; or to imagine some sanctity , vertue or divinity to be inherent in the images ; as to stop at the creatures and to go no higher ? yea , more than this , have not the common people been charged with doing these things by your own divines ? when they tell us of their madness in the worship of images ; and that there was little or no difference between their worship and that of the heathens ? in some places cited by dr. st. is it possible for any man that observes what the common people do , to imagine that they place no sanctity , vertue or divinity in their images ? when they walk so many miles barefoot to a certain image of our lady ; when they creep upon their bare knees towards it ; when they make formal supplications to the images , with as much ceremony as if the persons they represent were present ; when they look with so much submission and devotion towards them ; when they come with such mighty expectations of relief and help from them ; when they tell stories of so many miracles which have been wrought by them ; nay , when their learned men , who should have more wit or honesty , write books on purpose to heighten these follies and madnesses of the people . can you , with any face say , there is not so much danger in the worship of images , as in the worship of the creatures ? i did not expect , after what dr. st. had represented in this matter , t. g. should have given so wretched an answer as this . for if this were all to keep men from the relative worship of creatures , i dare affirm that most of the fathers arguments against this sort of idolatry were very weak and feeble , and that they did not reach the philosophical and contemplative men ; but only the dull and stupid vulgar ; that there was nothing of real idolatry in their worship of the creatures , but only danger to the common people , and scandal to the weak . name me that christian , who through all the primitive church ever let fall an expression to this purpose . it was idolatry , downright idolatry they charged them with in the worship of the creatures , and not any meer scandalous complyance with the ignorant vulgar . if this had been all they meant , for all that i can see the work of the apostles and primitive christians had been to have informed them only of the true god whom they were to worship in the creatures , and if all the people were once throughly informed of this , all the ancient rites of worship might have continued . they might have still baked cakes to the queen of heaven , and worshipped the whole host of heaven ; they might have continued their devotion to the earth , and fire , and trees and fountains , if they did but direct their worship through them to god. what mean all those sayings of fathers , all those canons of councils , wherein this very manner of worship was condemned for idolatry ? as dr. st. hath in part shewed . speak out gentlemen , and let us know what you think of the primitive church , which so freely condemned this relative worship ; but never imagine that we will be guided by your modern schools , or the doctrine of your church in these things , against the consent of the whole primitive christian church ; whose fathers you must condemn as children , and whose martyrs you must look on as fools , if your doctrine of relative worship be allowed . for most of those who suffered martyrdom might have escaped if they had allowed these principles of relative worship ; no more being required of them , but to do as the rest did , to burn a little incense in obedience to the laws , to make some customary libations before the emperours images , to make the common supplications at the temples of vesta or ceres , or any other of the gods , which the philosophers understood of the several parts of the world : and might they not have done all these things , and referred the worship ultimately to the true god ? i do not think this so trifling a matter as t. g. makes it , but i think the honour of christianity and of the primitive martyrs deeply concerned in it ; and i wish you not to maintain your fooleries upon such principles as reflect dishonour upon christianity it self . r. p. methinks the speaking trumpet hath roused you , and put you into a fit of furious zeal . p. d. no sir , i do assure you . it is the honour i have for christianity which hath made me speak thus warmly ; for i am very unwilling to have the primitive christians to suffer as fools and as weak brethren . r. p. but t. g. saith from vossius , that the gentiles concluded nature it self to be god , and the parts of it also to be deities , and that they forsook god and staid in the worship of nature . p. d. some persons not inferiour to vossius for learning or judgement in these matters , do suppose it to be a great mistake in him to make the gentiles worship inanimate nature for a true god , which say they , is in plain terms to make them atheists : for then they must own nothing but meer matter in the world . and to what purpose men should worship an inanimate senseless being , it is very hard to understand ; it is therefore much more probable that they did own some inferiour deities over the several parts of the world , and one supream which passed through all ; whom they did worship in and by his creatures . but i am not now to give an account of the pagan idolatry , of which we shall have occasion to discourse afterwards . that which i insist upon is , that those who had a right notion of god might upon the principles of relative worship have justified themselves in doing the same things which the heathens did , provided their intentions were directed aright ; and consequently that there was no necessity of taking away the heathen rites as idolatrous in reference to the parts of the world , but only of acquainting them more fully with the notion of god , and the nature of relative worship . r. p. but t. g. still stands to it , that there is more danger in worshipping the creatures , than in the worship of images ; because the creatures are not so apparently representative of god , as an image is of the person represented by it , which carries the thoughts presently and effectually to him . but the other needs a great deal of discourse to discover the analogy they bear to the creator , and the dependence they have of him for their very being : yet so , that from the greatness and beauty of the creatures the maker of them may proportionably be seen . p. d. to this dr. st. gave a full answer , when he said , that in an object of worship , we are not so much to consider the quickness of representation , as the perfections represented . although therefore an image may carry ones mind sooner to the thing represented , than the creatures ; yet the one is so infinite a disparagement to the divine nature in comparison of the other , that there is far greater danger upon t. g.'s principles in one than in the other . i will make this plain to you by this instance . suppose the image of a venerable old man with pontifical habits set up to represent god almighty , as hath been usual in the church of rome ; and one man worships god by this ; another he looks upon the sun as a wonderful work of god , and he worships god as manifesting himself in the sun ; the question now is , whether there be more danger in worshipping god by an image , or by the sun ? i say by an image . for ( . ) t. g. confesses that images are unlawful objects of worship , which are conceived to be proper likenesses of the divinity ; now i appeal to your self , whether men are not more apt to take the image of a man for a likeness of the divinity , than any of gods creatures ? besides ( . ) images do not represent any thing that deserves our worship ; but only lineaments and figures , the work of painters and carvers ; but the creatures represent to our minds infinite power , wisdom and goodness , which are the greatest motives of divine worship . for as dr. st. hath said , the least work of nature infinitely exceeds the greatest of art in curiosity , beauty , strength , proportion ▪ and every thing that can discover wisdom and power . ( . ) the presence of god in an image is only by a fiction of the mind , a man fancying the true object of worship to be really present ; but in the creatures there is a real divine presence . and where there is greater reason for worship , there is surely the less danger . ( . ) if the greater excellency of the creature make the danger greater , then as dr. st. argued , where there is less excellency there is less danger ; and consequently there must be less danger in worshipping the inanimate creatures than animate , and bruits than men , and mere moral men than saints ; because the danger must increase as the excellency doth : and consequently the egyptians were more excuseable in their worship than you . and by this reason there was less danger in worshipping the tail of the asse our saviour rode upon , than st. peter , or his pretended successor . ( . ) there is less danger of worship where the representation is more divine and spiritual , than where it is more gross and corporeal ; but the representation of god is much more divine and spiritual by his creatures than by images . and therefore cardinal lugo said , if a wooden image may be worshipped for the sake of the exemplar , much more such a lively image of god as man is . and thus upon this principle of relative worship all the several sorts of idolatry which were used among the heathens may be revived , and set up with as fair pretences at least as image-worship . r. p. t. g. saith , if dr. st. can discern god so easily in his creatures , as a mans mind is carried from the image to the prototype , he believes he is one of the most admirable persons in the meletetiques in the whole world. p. d. what is this but trifling in weighty matters ? i would allow t. g. as much scope for his wit , as he would desire ; provided it become the gravity of the subject . what is there in these meletetiques , but what is the duty of every good man , to see god in his works ? which all persons do who are not atheists ; and is this a thing to be exposed to scorn and derision ? r. p. but t. g. takes it for that part of mystical theology which inessences the soul with god. p. d. alas for his ignorance ! that he cannot distinguish between natural and mystical theology . i always took the seeing the great evidences of gods power , wisdom and goodness in his creatures to be natural theology : and is it not possible to discover god in his works without inessencing the soul with god ? this is too mean and low for t. g. ; surely you father this upon him . for i can hardly believe this and many other passages you mention , to be written by him ; or else t. g. hath helped me to another piece of meletetiques ; for i discover him much better in his works than i did before ; but with no great advantage either as to his wisdom or goodness . r. p. you may satisfie your self if you please that i ▪ do not wrong him ; for here 's the book ; and in the next page he compares dr. st. with one who said christ might be better represented by a cow than a crucifix , and another who said he detested the image of christ crucified . p. d. for what good end was dr. st. joyned with these ? ( supposing the stories true , which i hardly believe ) hath he ever said any such thing ? or that tended that way ? it is the worship he writes against , and not the bare representation of christ crucified . t. g. was not to seek for dr. st.'s mind in this matter , for these are his words . i do not say there is as great incongruity in representing the humane nature of christ , as there was in representing the infinite nature of god , but i say there is as great incongruity still in supposing an image of whatsoever it be , can be the proper object of divine worship . for the humanity of christ is only capable of receiving adoration from us , as it is hypostatically united to the divine nature ; and if the humane nature of christ be not , what then is the image of it ? what union is there between the divine nature and a crucifix ? all that can be said is , that imagination supplyes the union , and christ is supposed to be present by representation . but ( . ) this overthrows all measures and bounds of worship , and makes it lawful to worship any creature with respect to god. ( . ) it contradicts the argument of s. paul , for then god may be worshipped with the work of mens hands . ( . ) 't is contrary to the sense and practice of the primitive church which interpreted the second commandment to hold against all images set up for wo●ship , as well those proper to christians , as others among jews or gentiles . why did not t. g. rather answer these arguments , than make odious comparisons of him , with viret and beza ? but there is a reason for all things if a man can hit on it . r. p. but t. g. wonders dr. st. should discover god so easily in his creatures , while he saith elsewhere , the creatures can give no greater than moral certainty of the being of god himself . p. d. it was well thought upon , and deserves an answer ; because t. g. is not the only person who hath cavilled at this . if dr. st. by moral certainty doth mean only a bare probability , there were some colour for the objection , but in the very place to which t. g. referrs , he asserts the highest degree of actual certainty : and that which he calls moral certainty , he saith is , a firm , rational , and undoubted certainty . why then may not dr. st. discover god in his creatures , since he asserts so great an assurance of gods being their creatour ? r. p. but why then doth he call it moral certainty ? p. d. it is meer cavilling , when a mans mind is understood , to be quarrelling at his terms ; especially if they be such , as others have used before him , and seem most agreeable to the nature of the evidence . for we may conceive these several sorts of certainty . . a certainty of principles : which is that , i suppose , they call metaphysical certainty . for that was the proper office of metaphysicks , to establish certain general principles which might be of vse to all other sciences : such as those , that both parts of a contradiction cannot be true of the same thing : and that , of every thing , either the one , or the other part of a contradiction is true . these are such principles , * of which aristotle saith , it is folly in any man to go about to demonstrate them , any otherwise than by shewing the absurdity of him that denyeth them : they are such , themistius saith , which every man hath by nature , and without which he cannot be supposed to learn any thing ; and these are called self-evident and indemonstrable principles ; and axioms ; which need no more than the bare representation of them to the mind , as that the whole is greater than a part . if you take away equal things from equal , the remainder is equal . for whatever depends upon induction , or needs any medium to prove it , more than the bare perception of terms , was never by any philosopher accounted an indemonstrable and self-evident principle . much less were identical propositions taken for first principles , by any man that ever understood what principles were ; as it were very easie to prove , if there were occasion for it . i have but two things to add concerning this kind of certainty . . that the certainty of our own beings , is equal to this certainty of principles . it being a thing of natural and immediate evidence . for the very doubting as well as thinking proves the certainty of the being of that which doubts . and where there is such evident perception as of first principles , and our own beings , the assent is as necessary as for the ballance to incline where the greatest weight lyes . . that self-evident principles have very little influence upon our knowledge of other things ; and therefore a late philosopher observes that even that fundamental principle , that it is impossible the same thing should be , and not be at the same time , is of little or no vse for finding out of truth . and supposing the first principle of the certainty of our own beings to be granted the cartesians ( which no man who thinks can deny them ) yet i do not see how the truth of other things conveyed by our senses can be drawn from thence ; the one being an absolute certainty , the other only depending on a supposition which carryes not equal evidence along with it : which is the next kind . . a certainty by sense ; or upon supposition , that we are not so framed as not to be deceived in the most plain and clear perceptions of sense . this is that i suppose they mean by physical certainty . it implyes no contradiction we should be so deceived , and consequently it is short of the first kind of certainty . but withall the supposition is so just and reasonable , that such a mans understanding may be justly questioned , who questions the plain evidence of sense as to light , and day , and bodies , &c. and all mankind in spight of their most subtle arguments do trust their senses : and epictetus well said , that if he and two or three more were servants to a sceptick , they would make him hang or starve himself if he did not change his opinion . and galen saith , the evidence of sense needs no demonstration ; for all those things which are evident to sense are to be believed for themselves . . a certainty by reason , or of deducing something not known from that which is known . which is so evident in mathematical demonstrations that no man who understands the terms , and attends to the proof can forbear his assent . aristotle did attempt to bring the way of reasoning in other things to mathematical certainty ; which was the great design of his logick . to this end he begins with the explication of simple terms , and so he proceeds to propositions , and then to the joyning of two of these so together that from thence a third thing may follow by vertue of some middle term wherein they agree . but because the conclusion may not necessarily follow , where the manner of reasoning was true , therefore in order to demonstration , he supposes two sorts of principles . . axioms , or common principles received by all that understand them . . positions ; which are twofold : . suppositions , or postulata . . definitions . but after all , he grants that only such things are capable of demonstration which have a certain and immutable cause . and he puts a difference between a necessary conclusion , and a demonstration . the one depending on the form of syllogism , the other upon the necessity of the cause . but in demonstrative syllogisms aristotle doth not require some degree of necessity but the highest , when the connexion between the subject and predicate is so great , that one cannot be defined without the other ; so that logical demonstration must be of an inseparable property , and by the most immediate and necessary cause . but very few things in the world are capable of such demonstrations , by reason of our ignorance of the essential properties and immediate causes of things ; and those instances which are brought either by aristotle or his commentators are about such things where demonstration was least needful , and tend very little to the improvement of our knowledge . . a certainty which supposes some moral principles , and proceeds upon them . such as these , that every intelligent being acts for some end : that it is not the interest of mankind to deceive one another : that there are some things fit to be chosen , and others to be avoided : that circumstances vary the nature of actions : that where comparisons are made , the greatest good and the least evil are to be chosen . such as these , i call moral principles : which have self-evidence in them to any man that understands the terms . and whatever doth necessarily follow from these principles may be justly called a moral demonstration . . a certainty which supposes an immediate divine assistance to preserve the mind from errour , and this is infallible certainty . for the mind of man being of it self lyable to mistake in its apprehension and judgement of things , nothing can preserve it from a possibility of errour , but immediate assistance from god , who cannot be deceived and will not deceive . these things being premised , we are now to enquire what kind of certainty that is , which we have concerning the principles of religion . . for the principles of natural religion . you are to consider what kind of adversary dr. st. had to deal with , viz. one who pleaded for an infallible certainty , as that infallibility doth imply divine assistance , as necessary in order to an obligation to assent . against this dr. st. objects , that the main foundations of all religion , which are the being of god and immortality of the soul , were not capable of this kind of proof . because this very notion of infallibility doth suppose that which he would prove , viz. that there is a god who must give this assistance . but at the same time he yields , that we have as great evidence and certainty , as humane nature is capable of , of such a being as god is , from the consideration of his works : which being neither from mathematical demonstrations , nor supernatural infallibility he called moral certainty . which he might do from these grounds . . because the force of the argument from the creatures depends upon some moral principles . viz. from the suitableness and fitness of things to the wisdom of an intelligent and infinite agent , who might from thence be inferred to be the maker of them . it being unconceivable that meer matter should ever produce things in so much beauty , order and usefulness as we see in every creature ; in an ant or a fly as much as in the vast bodies of the heavens . . because they do suppose some moral dispositions in the persons who do most readily and firmly assent to these truths . for although men make use of the highest titles for their arguments , and call them infallible proofs , mathematical demonstrations , or what they please ; yet we still see men of bad minds will find something to cavil at , whereby to suspend their assent ; which they do not in meer metaphysical notions , or in mathematical demonstrations . but vertuous and unprejudiced minds do more impartially judge , and therefore more readily give their assent : having no byas to incline them another way . although therefore the principles be of another nature , and the arguments be drawn from idea's , or series of causes , or whatever medium it be , yet since the perverseness of mens will may hinder the force of the argument , as to themselves , the certainty might be called moral certainty . . as to the christian faith. so he grants , . that there are some principles relating to it which have metaphysical certainty in them ; as , that whatever god reveals is impossible to be false , or as it is commonly expressed , though improperly , is infallibly true. . that there is a rational certainty , that a doctrine confirmed by such miracles as were wrought by christ and his apostle must come from god : that being the most certain criterion of divine revelation . . that there was a physical certainty of the truth of christs miracles and resurrection from the dead , in the apostles who were eye-witnesses of them . . that there was an infallible certainty in the apostles delivering this doctrine to the world , and writing it for the benefit of the church in all ages . . that we have a moral certainty of the matters of fact , which do concern the doctrine , the miracles , and the books of scripture : which is of the same kind with the certainty those had of christs doctrine and miracles , who lived in mesopotamia , at that time ; which must depend upon the credibility of the witnesses who convey these things , which is a moral consideration , and therefore the certainty which is taken from it may be properly called moral certainty . of which there being many degrees , the highest is here understood , which any matter of fact is capable of . and now i pray tell me , what reason hath there been for all this noise about moral certainty ? r. p. t. g. owns that the dr. in other places doth acknowledge a true certainty of the principles of religion ; but , he saith , he can say and unsay , without retracting , with as much art and ease as any man he ever read . p. d. i had thought unsaying had been retracting . but dr. st. saith as much in those very places t. g. objects against , as in those he allows . only t. g. delights in cavilling above most authors i have ever read . r. p. but doth not dr. st. allow a possibility of falshood notwithstanding all this pretence of certainty ? p. d. whatever is true , is impossible to be false ; and the same degree of evidence any one hath of the truth of a thing , he hath of the impossibility of the falshood of it : therefore he that hath an undoubted certainty of the truth of christianity , hath the same certainty that it is impossible it should be false . and because possibility and impossibility are capable of the same distinctions that certainty is , therefore according to the nature and degrees of certainty is the possibility or impossibility of falshood . that which is metaphysically certain is so impossible to be false , that it implyes a contradiction to be otherwise : but it is not so in physical certainty , nor in all rational certainty , nor in moral : and yet , whereever any man is certain of the truth of a thing , he is proportionably certain that it is impossible to be false . r. p. this only relates to the person , and not to the evidence ; is there any such evidence of the existence of a deity , as can infallibly convince it to be absolutely true , and so impossible to be false ? p. d. i do not doubt , but that there are such evidences of the being of god , as do prove it to any unprejudiced mind impossible to be otherwise . and t. g. had no reason to doubt of this , from any thing dr. st. had said , who had endeavoured so early to prove the being of god , and the principles of christian faith ; before he set himself to consider the controversies which have happened in the christian church . t. g. therefore might well have spared these reflections , in a debate of so different a nature ; but that he was glad of an opportunity to go off from the business , as men are , that know they are not like to bring it to a good issue . r. p. t. g. confesseth this is a digression ; but he promises to return to the matter ; and so he does i assure you , for he comes to the second thing , which , he saith , the dr. ought to have done , viz. to have shewed how the notion of idolatry doth agree to the doctrine of the church of rome in her councils . p. d. it is a wonder to me , you should think him defective in this , when he shews that there are two things from whence the sense of the roman church is to be taken ; . from the definitions of councils . . from the practice of the church . . from the definitions of councils . and here * he entred upon the consideration of what that worship was , which was required to be given to images : and shewed from the words of the council , and from the testimony of the most eminent divines of the roman church , that it was not enough to worship before images , and to have an intention to perform those external acts ; but there must be an inward intention to worship the images themselves ; and that the contrary doctrine was esteemed little better than downright heresie . . from the practice of the church . for he shews many of your best divines went upon this principle , that god would not suffer his church to err ; and therefore they thought the allowed practice of the church sufficient for them to defend those things to be lawful which they saw generally practised . and from hence he makes it appear that the church of rome hath gone beyond the council of nice in two things . . in making and worshipping images of god and the b. trinity , which was * esteemed madness and pagan idolatry in the time of the second council of nice ; and is justified by the modern divines of the church of rome from the general practice of their church . . in giving the worship of latria to images ; † which was condemned by the council of nice ; and notwithstanding is defended by multitudes of divines in the roman church , from the allowed practice in the worship of the cross ; both before and after the council of trent . after which he enquires at large into the publick offices , and commended devotions of that church in respect to images , and from thence he * proves that . as to consecration of images for worship , . as to the rites of supplication to them ; . as to pompous procession with them , the modern church of rome doth not fall short of the practice of pagan rome . and do you think all this is not applying the notion of idolatry home to the roman church ? when , . he shews by the principles of the second council of nice , the modern practices of the church of rome are chargeable with idolatry . . that the practices agreeable with that council were charged with idolatry by the western church in the council of francford , not from any mistake of their meaning , but because they looked on the worship then decreed to be proper adoration . r. p. but t. g. saith , if the worship defined by the council of nice were inferiour worship , and not latria , as dr. st. confesseth , then nothing can be clearer than that it was not the worship due to god , and consequently the church of rome cannot be chargeable with idolatry from any thing contained in that decree . p. d. will t. g. never understand the difference between the intention of the person and the nature of the act ? they might declare it to be only inferiour worship , but the council of francford took it to be proper adoration which was due only to god. and if that councils judgement must stand ; all those in the church of rome who give latria to the cross , must be guilty of idolatry . r. p. doth not the church of england allow bowing to the altar , which if the altar had any sense would think were done to it ; as t. g. saith , he was certainly informed of a countrey fellow who being got near the altar in his majesties chapel , thought all the congies had been made to him , and so returned congy for congy . and if bowing may be used out of religious respect to the altar , why not kneeling , or prostration , or fixing our eyes in time of prayer , or burning incense or lights before the images of christ and his saints : but how can dr. st. purge the church of england from idolatry in that practice , when he saith , that any image being made so far the object of divine worship , that men do bow down before it , ( and he supposes the same will hold for any other creature ) it doth thereby become an idol , and on that account is forbidden in the second commandment ? p. d. what would t. g. have done , had it not been for this practice of bowing towards the altar ? when yet he cannot but know that the practice of it is not enjoyned by our church , for the canon leaves it at liberty ; if the church of rome did the same about the worship of images , the parallel would hold somewhat better . but the church of rome declares religious worship is to be given to images , and our church declares that none is to be given to the altar , and doth not this make an apparent difference ? if the countrey fellow standing without the rails fancied the congies made to himself ; what would he have done , if he had stood within an image of our lady , and seen all the courtship that had been used towards her by some of her devoted servants and slaves ; when he beheld the bare knees bleeding , the tears trickling , the breast knocking , the eyes scarce lifted up to shew the greater reverence and humility towards the image , what could he have thought , but that he was shut up within the bowels of the goddess they worshipped ? whereas if the countrey fellow had gone up into the court , and seen the ancient servants make their reverences after dinner in the presence chamber , he would soon have been better informed ; if some of the old courtiers had told him , it was the ancient custome of the court to make their reverences in all chambers of presence , and from thence when they went into his majesties chapel they used the same custome out of reverence to god almighty whose presence-chamber they accounted the chapel to be . what is all this to giving religious worship to the altar ? wherein the force of all t. g. saith must lye . r. p. but you do bow before the altar , as we do before images . p. d. i utterly deny that . for your church declares bowing before images without an intention to worship the images is next to heresie , ( if we are to take the sense of your councils from their own words and the explication of divines ; ) you explode their doctrine who say , that we are only to worship god before them . and is there no difference between the acts of these two men as to images themselves ? the one declares that he looks on no religious worship as due to an image , but it serves him only to put him in mind of him who is the proper object of worship , and he never intends by any act of his to worship the image it self : another saith , the church requires images to be worshipped , and for my part i think my self bound to do what the church requires , and therefore it is my intention to give worship not barely to the object represented , but to the very image it self , although it be on the account of its representation . and the latter dr. st. hath shewed to be the only allowed sense in the church of rome , and the other rejected either as heretical or next to it . which t. g. never so much as once takes notice of . but however this doth not reach our case ; for we believe the second commandment to be still in force , which is express and positive against all worship of images , and bowing down to them , but that which was lawful among the jews , notwithstanding that precept , viz. to worship god towards the mercy seat , is still lawful among christians , viz. to worship god alone , but towards the altar . and thus i hope t. g. will at last be brought a little better to understand the sense of our church in this practice , and how far it is from being a parallel with your worship of images . r. p. t. g. finds great fault with dr. st. 's citation out of card. lugo , about submission to images , because he left out aliquis , and potest dici , and i tell you , he makes a huge outcry about it , and fills up several pages with it . p. d. doth he truly ? it was a great sign he wanted matter to fill up his book . but i pray on what occasion was this passage brought in ? it may be that will give us some light into this matter . r. p. t. g. referrs to the page , but he never mentions the occasion . it is such a page . p. d. let us see , what dr. st. was proving in that place . it was , that by the council of nice as it is explained by the divines of the roman church , true and real worship is to be given to images ; and for this he produces the several testimonies of suarez , medina , victoria , catharinus , naclantus , bellarmine , soto , velosillus , pujol , tannerus , ysambertus , bassaeus , sylvius , arriaga , and at last card. lugo . if the thing be not proved , which he designed , why is card. lugo alone produced ? if it be proved , why is card. lugo produced at all ? r.p. because he left out aliquis and dici potest . p. d. but suppose the other be sufficient to express his concurrence with the rest , what unfairness is there in that , to shorten his words when he layes no weight upon the manner , but upon the thing ? had dr. st. charged lugo with holding greater submission than the rest , and then left out the qualifying expressions , he had done him injury . but he knew lugo meant no more than the rest , and produced him for no other purpose . if there be but any inward affection carried to the image , which may be called a certain kind of submission to the image , it is all one to dr. st.'s purpose ; which was only to prove , as he saith , in the same page , from the acts of the council , and the judgement of their learned and eminent divines , that by the decree of the nicene council such true and real worship is to be given to images as is terminated upon the images themselves . did these testimonies prove this , or did they not ? if they did not ; why did not t. g. discover them all ? if they did ; why doth he so vainly cavil , about some thing impertinent to the main business , in the very last of all ? so that , after all this cry , there is very little wool , unless it be that which is made of goats hair . r. p. but this tends to breed an impression in the reader , that the inward affection card. lugo required was of giving submission to an image as superiour ; because in another place he quotes the same author for making cultus to signifie reverence towards superiours . p. d. but doth not the cardinal say so ? r. p. t. g. saith nothing to the contrary , which i am sure he would have done , if he had not . p. d. well then ; lugo makes worship to be a reverence towards superiours ; but he saith , that true worship is due to images . and is not this making the image superiour ? r. p. i thought where i should have you ; but t. g. hath explained lugo's meaning from himself . p. d. let me hear it as t. g. that candid and ingenuous dealer hath it . r. p. . he saith , when we worship an image , the inward affection is not carried to the image , after the same manner it is to the prototype ; for we worship the prototype absolutely , i. e. for its own proper excellency ; but the image only with a relative worship , i. e. for the excellency not of the image it self , but of the prototype , which kind of worship he affirms to be far inferiour to the other , which is absolute . . we have not the same inward submission towards the image , which we have towards the prototype ; for we submit our selves to the prototype , acknowledging it to be more excellent than our selves , and superiour to us , which kind of submission we cannot prudently conceive to belong to an image ; nor indeed any at all , by which we submit our selves to it , preferring it before us . . the sole external act of kissing or bowing is not so carryed to the image but that some inward affection also goes along with it , which he saith , may be called also some kind of affection of submission ; by which he means an affection of submitting our selves to the image ; for as much as the act of the will from which it proceeds is an affection of performing those acts about their images , which we are wont to exercise towards our superiours . p. d. now i hope , we have the cardinals true meaning . from whence i desire you to observe . . that the difference he puts between the worship of the image and the prototype lyes in the inward estimation of the excellency of the one above the other ; which is as much as to say , that he doth really think there is more excellency in christ himself than in a crucifix . which deserves a special remark ; especially being made by a cardinal . when one might venture to say , that there is scarce an idolater so sottish in the world , but will acknowledge his deity to be much better than the image of him ; and that he worships one for his own excellency , and the other only out of respect to him . . he acknowledges , that all those acts whereby we express reverence towards superiours may be used towards images , as bowing , kneeling , prostration , &c. . that there is some kind of inward affection which may be called a certain kind of affection of submission going along with these external acts. and doth not all this amount to true and real worship ? which was the thing dr. st. designed to prove . for here , without exception , all those acts whereby our reverence towards superiours is expressed , may be used to images ; i. e. all tokens of submission to them , and an inward affection of some kind , which may be called affection of submission . by which we find it yielded to us that all external acts of adoration may be given to images , provided , that the inward affection be carryed after a different manner to the prototype and to the image ; which no idolater in the world , if maimonides may be believed , would ever deny : if they believed any other gods besides their idols , as he saith , there were none but did . so that card. lugo upon fair ground gives up all peculiarity of any external acts of divine worship ; and for all that i can see , may sacrifice to an image , or offer up the host to it , on the same reasons that they make their prostrations before it . and he understood the consequence of his own doctrine so well , that he doth not seem to boggle at it on the account of adoration . but as long as t. g. yields that cardinal lugo doth allow all external acts of submission to images , and such an inward affection as to make that submission sincere and real , dr. st. hath all which his heart could desire from this testimony of lugo . r. p. but all this amounts to no more , t. g. saith from him , but that the prototype deserves to be treated honourably , not only in it self , but in all things which have connexion with it , as an image or the like . p. d. that is , god may be worshipped in any creature ; and any act of adoration may be performed towards it , if it have a respect to him : whether by a real or imaginary presence . which takes away the distinction of divine worship as it is applied to outward acts , and all necessary discrimination between the worship we give to god and to his creatures ; and if this be for the honour of his soveraignty and dominion over us , let the world judge . r. p. after all this , t. g. saith , that dr. st. agrees with cardinal lugo in the thing , although he quarrels with him about the words . p. d. that is news indeed . how doth t. g. make that out ? r. p. because he saith from aquinas , that although no irrational or inanimate being be capable of that real excellency to deserve any honour from us for its own sake ; yet on the account of a relation to divine things they may deserve a different regard and usage from other things . p. d. this is true ; but he immediately distinguishes from st. augustin between the peculiarity of use belonging to the sacred utensils , and the worship given to images . r. p. that is no matter how he distinguishes , as long as the consequence holds from one to the other . for if a religious respect be due to sacred places and things on the account of their relation to god , and an inward intention of the mind to express it towards them by an outward token of submission , as bowing to the altar , it comes to the same thing which cardinal lugo pleads for to an image , so that if one be idolatry , the other must be so too . so that t. g. concludes very triumphantly that by these edge-tools , viz. school-distinctions dr. st. hath cut the throat of his own cause . and then he brings in the patronus bonae fidei again . p. d. methinks another writing of the same worthy author had been much more proper , called jugulum causae . but is it possible for t. g. not to apprehend the difference of these things ? i will once more endeavour to make it plain to you . the reverence to sacred places and things differs from the relative worship of images in these things . . in the acts belonging to them . for this i need only to repeat dr. st.'s words . is there no difference between a religious respect ( if i may so call it ) to sacred places and things , and all the most solemn acts of adoration which were ever given to images by the most sottish idolaters ? such as kneelings before them , prostrations , praying with their eyes fixed upon them , as though they were speaking to them , burning incense and lights before them , which are as great testimonies of worship as ever were used by the greatest and most sottish idolaters . and here cardinal lugo allows all external acts of submission to images ; whereas in the other case , discrimination is all that is contended for , out of reverence to them . as for bowing towards the altar , it hath been so often answered before , that i shall not repeat . . in the reason of worship . for if the reason assigned for the worship of images be peculiar to them , then it cannot hold for all sacred things and places . now the reason of the worship of images is representation of the prototype as present to the fancy of him that worships ; but this cannot hold for the sacred vtensils and places which have their honour for the sake of the use they are dedicated to . thus if images in churches were appointed only for use without any worship to be given to them , it would come much nearer to a parallel , than they can do now , when they are consecrated and set up on purpose for adoration ; as they are continually in the roman church . . in the distinction the law of god makes between them . for when it most severely prohibits the worship of images , it not only allows but commands the reverencing gods sanctuary ; and the consecrating sacred vessels for the use of the temple . so that where the law distinguisheth we have reason to do it too : and so the christian church did , when it looked on the worship of images as unlawful , yet they did shew respect and honour to sacred things and places : and honour is all they are capable of as st. augustine saith , but no worship doth belong to them . so that these edge-tools do no execution at all but upon t. g.'s images ; which could never have been framed without them , and yet are destroyed by them . r. p. you think to escape about the doctor 's unfaithful reporting the sense of authors with this one testimony of cardinal lugo ; but you are deceived , i have another ready for you of gregory nyssen . p. d. another ! i expected hundreds upon t. g.'s outcries . when he saith , the citations are many and long , and out of authors of all nations , and all ages , and all religions . what! but another ? r. p. you would have t. g. write an answer as big as foxes acts and monuments , but you are deceived , he is wiser than so . for he hath a particular aversion to a great book upon one subject . if he can discover four or five citations faulty , that will take away the reputation of all the rest . p. d. a very short way i confess . methinks one or two may serve ; and save candle and firing , and waste-paper . nay one single testimony may do it , with an end of an old latine verse tacked to it , crimine ab uno — especially such a one as this of cardinal lugo . but , however let us hear that of gregory nyssen . r. p. it is about the arians being charged with idolatry : which is brought in with a great deal of pomp among other testimonies , to shew that the arians were charged with idolatry for the worship they gave to christ , whom they acknowledged to be a creature , from thence to parallel their worship with that of the church of rome to the saints . p. d. i am glad to hear but one of those testimonies challenged ; for if that be given up , there are enough remaining to prove his design : which you mightily mistake , if you think it was only to parallel your worship of saints with the arians idolatry . for this is never so much as mentioned by dr. st. ; but he names several considerable advantages which are gained by it in this subject of idolatry . . that there may be idolatry where the true god is owned , and worshipped , as he was no doubt among the arians ; from whence it follows , that the nature of idolatry doth not consist in giving soveraign worship to a creature , without respect to the creator . which will be of use to us in the debate about the pagan idolatry . . that relative latria being given to a creature is idolatry , for notwithstanding they looked on christ as the express image of god ; yet because they gave divine worship to him , supposing him to be a creature , they were charged with idolatry . . that making god the fountain and original of those excellencies for which any creature is worshipped doth not excuse from idolatry . for the arians were guilty who supposed all the excellencies of christ to be derived from god. . that no distinction of doulia and latria doth excuse from idolatry ; for the fathers make the giving doulia to christ to be idolatry . . that the notion of an idol is so far from being a meer imaginary figment or chimera , that it was attributed by the fathers to the most excellent being , even to christ himself , when divine worship was given to him as a creature . these are matters of great moment , if they hold good ; doth he pass all these by , only to fall upon one single testimony ? if he doth , it is a shrewd sign , though he cried out of gregory nyssen , yet he was pinched somewhere else . well ; but what is this horrible crime about gregory nyssen ? hath he brought him under an index expurgatorius ? hath he falsified his words and corrupted the text ? or hath he wilfully altered his sense and meaning ? hath he done it in all the quotations out of him , or only in one ? whatever it is , let us have it . r. p. it is in the citation out of his oration de laudibus basilii . p. d. but the dr. hath three or four more out of the same author . it seems they stand well enough . hath not the dr. truly cited his words ? r. p. yes , t. g. saith , as to the general truly enough . p. d. what is the fault then ? r. p. that he doth not add the words that follow , wherein he shews what kind of worship that was which the arians gave to christ ; viz. not only to worship and serve him , but also to six hopes of salvation in a creature and to expect judgement from it . and was it not neatly done of the doctor to wrap up all this in those short words , the devil perswaded men to return to the worship of the creature ? which is a laconism not observed by him on other occasions : but it was here done on purpose to conceal from the reader the apparent difference between the worship of saints in the church of rome , and the arians worship of christ. p. d. i am glad , it is out at last , after so much straining . see how much choler there is in it ! indeed , it might have done him much harm , if he had kept it in any longer . but i wonder the laconick gentleman doth complain of shortness . do you think the laconian in boccalini would have made such a noise for missing a page or two in guicciardins war of pisa ? do you in earnest think dr. st. should take such pains to conceal that which every one knows , that the arians fixed their hopes of salvation on christ , and expected him to come to judgement ? what wonderful discovery is this , which t. g. hath made ? nay dr. st. himself takes notice of this objection , that they did give a higher degree of worship to christ than any do to saints ; and returns this answer to it ; that they did only give a degree of worship proportionable to the degrees of excellency supposed to be in him far above any other creatures whatsoever . but still that worship was inferiour to that which they gave to god the father : and at the highest such as the platonists gave to their celestial deities . and although the arians did invocate christ and put their trust in him , yet they still supposed him to be a creature , and therefore believed that all the power and authority he had was given to him : so that the worship they gave to christ must be inferiour to that honour they gave to the supreme god whom they believed to be supreme , absolute and independent . r. p. t. g. takes notice of this answer , and objects two things against it . first , that it stands too far off from the words of nyssen at the distance of pages ; and so proves a very late salve for so old a wound . p. d. especially , considering how poor nyssen lay a bleeding all that while . is it not enough for us to unswer objections ; unless we put them just in the page you would have them , after the way of objections and solutions ? i pity the hard fate of the laconian that hath leaves to turn over , longer than the war of pisa. o for the gallies ! but i hope he will consider better of it . r. p. you may jest as you please at this answer ; but the second is a very solid one : for t. g. shews the parallel to be inconsistent , both with the practice of the arians , and doctrine of the fathers . p. d. what parallel doth he mean ? dr. st. proves from hence inferiour relative worship given to a creature to be idolatry , in the sense of the fathers . is this true , or is it not ? r. p. you have not patience to hear t. g.'s answer out . for , . he saith , the fathers do acknowledge a worship due to the saints , and particularly gregory nyssen in an oration produced by him : and therefore if they had condemned the arians of idolatry for giving only a like worship to christ though in a higher degree , they had condemned themselves for the like crime . . the arians made no such apology for themselves , as the doctor makes for them , viz. that they gave soveraign and absolute worship to god , and only inferiour and relative worship to christ. . why might not the generality at least believe christ to be of a superiour order , so as to have true divinity in him , as the heathens did of their lesser gods , and that being assumed as a consort in the empire , absolute divine honour was due to him ? . they were chargeable with idolatry , because they did avowedly give those acts of worship to christ believing him to be a creature , which by the common consent and publick practice of christians , from whence exteriour signs in the duties of religion receive their determination , were understood to be due only to god incarnate . which makes their case very much different from that of the church of rome , which gave to saints and images only such acts of worship as by the common use and practice of the christian world before luther , were determined and understood , when applied to saints and images , to express an inferiour degree of reverence or worship , than what is due to god himself . this is the substance of t. g.'s answer . p. d. i confess t. g. now offers something worthy a serious debate . which may be reduced to these two things . . what those acts of worship were , which the arians were charged with idolatry for giving to christ supposing him a creature . . how far the church of rome is liable to the same charge , for the worship she gives to saints and images . . for the acts of worship which the arians were charged with idolatry in giving to christ as a creature . the strength of t. g.'s answer lies in two things . . that they were given absolutely to christ , as a lesser god. . that they were such acts which by the consent of the church did signifie proper divine worship . . let us consider whether the worship given to christ could be absolute upon their supposition that christ was a creature . t. g. speaks somewhat faintly in this matter , at first saying only , why might it not be absolute ? at least as to the generality ? but afterwards , he takes heart , and sayes roundly that the fathers evermore charge the arians for giving absolute divine worship to christ , although they believed him to be of a different nature from the supreme god : which he hopes is far enough from the doctors relative or inferior worship . but i am very far from being satisfied with this answer . for i pray tell me wherein lies the difference between soveraign worship , and inferiour : in acts of the mind , or in external acts ? r. p. in internal doubtless ; on t. g.'s principles , who makes external acts to signifie according to the determination of the church . p. d. what are those internal acts wherein the worship of the supreme god consists ? r. p. a due esteem of his excellency , and suitable affection to it . p. d. must not this due esteem distinguish him from all creatures ? r. p. yes surely ; for otherwise it can be no due esteem : the distance being infinite between god and his creatures . p. d. can a man then have an equal esteem of god and a creature ? which he acknowledges to be made by him ? r. p. certainly not . p. d. then it must be unequal , according to the difference of uncreated and created excellencies . r. p. yes . p. d. then the worship must be unequal ; and that which is given to a creature must be inferiour worship . r. p. but t. g. saith , they might believe true divinity to be in him , as the heathens did of their lesser gods. p. d. true divinity ! what is that , when they believed him to be a creature ? did they take him for an uncreated creature ? for that can be no true divinity which is not uncreated ; and yet you confess they owned christ to be a creature . what nonsense and contradiction would t. g. cry out upon , if dr. st. had ever said any such thing ? r. p. might not they believe christ to be assumed as consort in the empire , and so absolute divine honour to be due to him ? p. d. what do you mean by this absolute divine honour ? for i have already proved it must be inferiour worship . r. p. i do suppose absolute divine honour is that which is given to a being on the account of its own excellency , and relative from the respect it hath to another . p. d. but whether absolute or relative , it is proper divine honour you mean. and doth not that imply an esteem of proper divine excellency , and is not that proper to god alone and uncreated ? how then can this absolute divine honour be given to a created being ? r. p. how did the gentiles to their false gods ? p. d. just as the arians , for they made distinctions in their worship ; as will appear when we come to that subject . r. p. what do you make then this worship of the arians to be ? p. d. an inferior and relative worship ; for they supposed they worshipped god , when they gave those acts of worship to christ which were agreeable to the excellencies that were in him . r. p. but ( . ) those acts were such as by the consent of the church were understood to be due only to god incarnate . p. d. here we are to know , both what these acts were ; and what power the church hath to impose a signification upon them . r. p. t. g. names these . . worshipping and serving him with latria . . putting their trust in him as mediator of redemption . . invoking him as the judge of the quick and the dead , &c. p. d. what means this &c. i am afraid here is something beyond the trick about gregory nyssen , which lies under this dragons tayl. are these all which dr. st. mentioned ? r. p. i know not that ; if you know more i am sure to hear of it . p. d. you are not mistaken ; for dr. st. had shewed at large , ( . ) that external adoration was one of those things which the fathers charged the arians with idolatry for giving to christ supposing him to be a creature : from peters forbidding cornelius , and the angel st. john ; because this is only proper to god : from the plain testimonies of athanasius , epiphanius and st. cyril . ( . ) that invocation of christ as a mediator of intercession , was condemned as idolatry in the arians . athanasius supposes it inconsistent with christianity to joyn christ , if he were a creature , in our prayers , together with god. ( . ) that they made no such distinction of worshipping and serving with latria , as t. g. insinuates . for he shews from the testimonies of athanasius , and even gregory nyssen , st. cyril and theodoret , that the very worship which they condemn for idolatry is called doulia by them . and therefore these are meer shifts and evasions which do not remove the difficulty at all . i deny not , but they did put their trust in christ for salvation , and expect his coming to judge the quick and the dead ; but i say these were but expressions suitable to the apprehensions they had of his excellencies above any other creatures , but still inferiour to gods : and the fathers did not charge them with idolatry meerly for these acts , but for the other likewise mentioned before . r. p. but t. g. hath a reserve still behind , viz. that it is in the churches power to determine the signification of external acts of worship , what belongs to soveraign or proper divine worship , and what to inferiour worship ; that at that time the church might take those for acts of divine worship which afterwards by consent of the church came only to signifie inferiour acts of worship when applied to creatures ; and therefore the argument cannot hold from that time to after ages . p.d. i think you have hit upon t. g.'s meaning : and in truth it is the only thing to be said in the case . for if idolatry be a thing in the churches power to determine , it is the only way in the world for the church of rome to free her self ( supposing that power to be lodged in her ) ; but if it should happen that the law of god , the consent of nations , the reason of divine worship and the practice of the primitive church have determined idolatry antecedently to the power of the present church : what a case are you then in ? the guilt of idolatry must lie heavily upon you , and if it be so great a sin as your own schoolmen determine , you have a great deal to answer for ; notwithstanding all the tricks and evasions of t. g. but why doth not t. g. make the external acts of theft , adultery , murder and perjury , as much under the churches power as those of idolatry ? but i forbear now , supposing that we shall meet with this useful notion again before we end this debate . r. p. you are mistaken , if you think t. g. had no other answer to give : for he saith , they could not be understood of that worship which our church gives to saints , because they acknowledge an inferiour worship due to the saints ; for which he quotes st. austin , gregory nazianzen , st. hierom and gregory nyssen . p. d. had t. g. the confidence to quote st. augustin again for this , when dr. st. purposely answered this very testimony in his book which t. g. pretends here to answer , and proves evidently from him that no worship was then given to the saints ? and to all this t. g. returns nothing , but however he brings the same testimony again ; as whole and as sound , and as much to the purpose as ever . gregory nazianzen is quoted at peradventure , for i remember nothing in the orat. de nat. christ. to that purpose , although i lately read it over . st. hierom speaks only of reverencing the sepulchres of the martyrs : but all the weight lies upon gregory nyssen , and what , i pray , saith this single witness to the business ? r.p. more than you will be willing to hear , or able to answer . for in his oration upon st. theodore that great and holy martyr , ( which even rivetus himself that capricious fanatick in criticism doth not question to be his genuine work ) he commends the peoples devotion to the martyrs , he describes the magnificent structure of the temple , the pieces of sculpture in it , and especially the picture of the martyr ; then coming to the shrine he shews the esteem they had for his relicks ; and if they were admitted to touch his body , they embrace it as if they beheld it yet alive ; and weeping over it as if he were whole before them , they solicit his supplication and intercession , beseeching him as a champion of god , and invocating him as one that could obtain blessings , when he would , for them . and then he dilates himself upon the acts of the martyr and the great benefits they received by him : and at the end of his oration addresses himself to him in these words , we stand in need of many benefits , do thou intercede and deprecate with our common king and lord for thy country . do thou as a souldier fight in our defence . and in case there be need of greater intercession call an assembly of thy brother martyrs ; let the prayers of many just persons expiate the sins of multitudes of offenders . admonish peter , excite paul , and john also the beloved disciple to be solicitors for the churches they have founded ; that idolatry may not lift up its head , that heresies may not overgrow the vineyard , &c. but by the power of thine and thy fellows intercession , o admirable man , and eminent among martyrs , the christian church may be a plentiful field of harvest , &c. if dr. st. had been present at this oration , saith t. g. how may we think would his zeal have urged him to have cried out idolatry , flat idolatry , very real idolatry , meer heathenish idolatry . p. d. i am not of your mind in this ; for i suppose he would have considered the allowances to be made for an eloquent person in a panegyrical oration ; when things are amplified , heightned , improved , with all the most moving figures and strains of rhetorick to excite the auditors admiration and affection to the party commended . and he must be a great stranger to the schools of eloquence that will form doctrines and devotions from apostrophe's and prosopopeia's . i do not think dr. st. would have charged cicero a jot the more for idolatry for his praying to the hills and woods of alba , vos albani tumuli atque luci , oro atque obtestor : what! flat idolatry ! heathenish idolatry ! praying to hills and woods . no such matter . for so rhetoricians will tell t. g. what great scope orators may take in the representation of persons and the things done by them ; and how mightily those figures both adorn the oration and move the auditors ; but withal , that these are figures it is very easie to exceed in , and it requires great judgement to manage them with a due decorum . if it were needful for t. g. i could produce the testimonies of both greek and latine rhetoricians to this purpose . all the question is , whether gregory nyssen spake like an orator in these expressions , for which we must consider the character of the person , and the occasion of speaking . as to gregory nyssen , gregory nazianzen severely rebukes him in a whole epistle for affecting more the glory of an orator than of a christian ; and this after he was a priest , and devoted to the service of christ ; in so much that many christians were very much offended at him . and what wonder is it to find such a person , on such an occasion as making a panegyrical oration on a martyr , laying on all his colours , opening his perfuming pots , and using more the figures of an orator , than the exactness of a divine ? nay , it was become so general a custom among their eloquent men to exceed in their panegyrical orations , that i find theodoret quoted for saying , no rule of doctrine is to be taken from them . and it is agreed by your divines as well as our own , that the fathers in their popular orations do make use of such bold figures , as are not to be made a foundation for doctrines to be taken from them . therefore this apostrophe to theodorus by gregory nyssen is no argument to prove invocation of saints ; there being a great difference between flowers of rhetorick and forms of devotion . r. p. but he commends the devotion of the people to the martyrs , and calls it a pure worship . p. d. that he might well do , as the solemnities of the martyrs were observed out of honour to god and the christian religion . for then the christians met at the tombs of the martyrs to perform the publick worship of god there ; and afterwards erected churches upon their memories , so that the place , the time , the occasion of meeting was for the honour of the martyrs , but the worship was given to god alone . r. p. doth not gregory nyssen take notice of the peoples soliciting his supplication and intercession with god for them , as their champion , &c. p. d. i grant he doth so ; but observe his words ; he saith the people when they touch any part of his body , ( which was very rarely granted ) they embraced it , as if it had been living ; and wept over it ; and then he adds 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . as if he had been whole and appeared before them , ( which last word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 t. g. very conveniently left out , which i leave to the reader to judge of , as a testimony of t. g.'s sincerity , at the very same time he charges dr. st. for the same fault ) they solicit his intercession , beseeching him as the champion of god , and calling upon him as one that received gifts when he pleased . i do not think this superstition of the people was to be excused , which began most early to appear in the parts of cappadocia and pontus , and the reason of it is not hard to give , from the turning the heathen festivals into christian solemnities to the martyrs , of which gregory nyssen speaks in the life of gregory thaumaturgus ; but however , this was not any solemn invocation of him , as a part of religious worship , but an occasional and rare thing , and done upon supposition , as if he had been alive and then present among them . and that the practice of these men who seemed most to make addresses to saints in the fourth century did differ from the invocation of saints in your church , i shall make appear by these particulars . . invocation of saints is made a solemn part of religious worship in the church of rome . for which , we do not run to some extravagant expressions of your preachers ; nor barely to the ave maries they use in their pulpits , of which no single instance can be produced out of antiquity ; but to the publick , solemn authorized offices of your church . and although you may say , the church is not answerable for the indiscretion of preachers , or the figures of poets , yet certainly she is for all standing and allowed offices of divine worship . and this is that we charge you with , that by this you make religious worship of the creatures , a part of your constant and solemn worship . even in the masse it self , you begin with confession to god and to his creatures ( which athanasius accounted so great an impiety , to joyn god and his creature together in an act of worship ) and afterwards pray to them . and although in the plain canon of the masse you pretend there is scarce any , or but twice or thrice , a direct invocation of the saints ; yet upon occasional and anniversary masses , such invocation is very frequent , as in the masses of the festivals of the blessed virgin , which are many in the year ; the masse for women with child ; the masses of the apostles , the angel michael and many saints : which it were tedious to repeat . it would be endless to give an account how much of your breviaries , houres , litanies , and private offices of devotion is stuffed out with formal addresses to saints . if you but cast your eye on any of the offices of the b. virgin , you cannot question the truth of this . now i pray tell me , where you meet with any like this in antiquity ; you may pick up some flourishes of orators or poets in the fourth century ; but what are these to the standing offices of the church ; which are the standard of divine worship ? name me any one liturgy of the church , which is authentick , that had the name of a●y saint or creature in it by way of invocation before the time of petrus fallo , who is no author to be gloried in . and of him indeed nicephorus saith , that he first brought the invocation of the blessed virgin into the prayers of the church . before his time , the fathers utterly deny there was any invocation of saints in the prayers of the faithful , as dr. st. hath evidently proved from st. augustin : and methinks t. g. should have said something or other to it , and not think this poor single testimony of gregory nyssen would overthrow all . . the invocation of saints in your church is direct and formal , not meerly by way of desire to pray for them , but to bestow blessings upon them . of which dr. st. hath produced several late instances in books of devotion now in use here in england ; to which many more might be added , if it were needful . and it is a wonder to me , that any man who hath looked into the offices of the b. virgin can make the least doubt of this . and considering the titles given her in the roman church , it were a disparagement to her , not to pray directly to her for blessings . for if she be the fountain of grace and mercy , the mother of consolation , the safety of all that trust in her , the dispenser of graces to whom she pleases , the queen of heaven to whom all power is committed , the mediatrix between her son and us ; as she is stiled in the roman church ; why may not men pray as directly to her as to christ himself ? as long as these and many other titles are owned in their prayers , in their sacred hymns , in their commentators on scripture , and not meerly in their poets and orators . why doth t. g. go about to deceive the world in making it believe that all their invocation is only praying to pray for them ? which is all that is pretended to be used in the ancient church : and cassander thinks they were rather wishes and desires than prayers ; for which he gives a very good reason , viz. that there was a condition expressed by them ; such as that of greg. nazianzen in his oration on his sister gorgonia . if thou hast any regard to our affairs , and if this be part of the reward of holy souls to be sensible of things done below , receive this office of kindness from me . which shews they had no confidence or assurance that the saints in heaven did understand our affairs , and therefore all expressions of this kind in them were rather wishes than prayers . and even greg. nyssen in this oration upon theodore supposes , that unless he came down from above where-ever he was , whether in the aethereal region , or celestial , or angelical , and were actually present among them , he could not understand the honours that were done him , nor the addresses they made to him . and when they did express such an uncertainty as this at the same time they made these addresses towards the conclusion of their orations , after the manner of oratours , it is plain they are to be understood rather for rhetorical wishes , than formal invocations . now let any man compare this doubtfulness of the ancients , with the confidence expressed in the church of rome , when they declare it to be de fide that the saints do hear them , ( although the manner be not ) and then judge whether their practises can be of the same kind . . the invocation of saints in your church doth imply inward submission to a creature ; and therefore goes very much beyond the addresses of the ancients . there are three things which prove this inward submission to a creature in the invocation of saints . . inward devotion to them : . an acknowledged superiority over them : . an intention to give them divine worship . . inward devotion . for even mental prayers to saints are allowed by the council of trent , as dr. st. told t. g. , of which he takes no notice ; and yet quarrels with him for two other passages in the same place . must we impute this to a casual vndulation of the visual rayes , as t. g. very finely expresseth it ? i am afraid , there was some other cause for it . for since that council allows internal prayers to saints , it must not only certainly suppose their knowledge of the heart , but a due submission of our souls to them ; which inward prayer doth import . and therefore suppliciter invocare tam voce quàm mente , which are the words of the council of trent ; doth not only imply formal invocation , but internal submission ; both which do belong to suppliants . . an acknowledged superiority over them : which appears by that authority and government which they attribute to them , with respect to particular places and things . whereby they make the saints not bare intercessours , but tutelar deities , and they invocate them as such . t. g. saith , they do not make them authours of those blessings ; not originally , and independently ; but subordinately and ministerially they do . and if this be not idolatry , no worship of the inferiour deities among the heathens was so . lipsius was no fool when he made the b. virgin a tutelar deity ; and the popes surely understand their own religion , when they canonize particular saints to be patrons of such places : which may be seen in some of the latest canonizations . as of s. rosa , that admirable saint of peru , and others . . an intention to give divine worship to them . for what else can be meant by that eminent kind of adoration which bellarmine saith , doth belong to them ; that divine worship , which azorius saith , you give to the saints ; and serrarius saith , many of the wisest persons among you say , that latria and doulia proceed both from the same vertue of religion ; that is , they are of the same kind . so that this is not meerly the superstition of the vulgar , but the judgement of the wisest among you , if serrarius his judgement may be taken . i will not dissemble what b. forbs observes , that some of the school-men do make the invocation of saints not to slow from the vertue of religion , but another of their own making , called singularis observantia . but this is only a trick found out to avoid the imputation of idolatry , which they thought would fall justly upon them , if they made the worship to be of the same kind , although of a different degree : since nothing can be plainer in antiquity , than that all truly religious worship belongs only to god and cannot be given to a creature , without the guilt of idolatry . for even in the same age wherein greg. nyssen lived , the council of laodicea declared the invocation of angels to be idolatry ; so theodoret expresseth the sense of that council , who certainly understood the meaning of it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , are his words , which he makes to be all one with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so that praying to them is that part of divine worship which was condemned for idolatry , being given to angels . r. p. t. g. saith , this was a practice of nominating angels , which he saith , cannot with any shew of probability be understood of that worship , which the holy catholick church gives to holy angels . p. d. good sir , his reason ; for to my apprehension it comes as home to the practice of the church of rome as may be . r. p. ( . ) because the council speaks of such as excluded our lord jesus christ , making private assemblies : which words dr. st. conveniently omitted . p. d. did he so ? let us hear them at length . that christians ought not to forsake the church of god , and go aside , to invocate angels ; or make unlawful conventicles ; if any one be found practising this secret idolatry , let him be accursed ; because he hath forsaken our lord jesus christ , the son of god , and betaken himself to idolatry . the council speaks this of a sort of christians , who yet were guilty of idolatry in praying to angels ; therefore praying to angels is idolatry . r. p. yes , such praying to angels as theodoret speaks of , upon account that the law was delivered by them , or that god being invisible and incomprehensible cannot be approached but by the angels . p. d. will t. g. stand to it , that this is idolatry ? then it must be idolatry in the nature of the thing , or by some positive law ; if the latter , we see the council of laodicea accounts it equal idolatry among christians as before : if the former , then praying to a creature is idolatry in the nature of the thing : which is a very fair concession , and i suppose the church of rome will con him no thanks for . r. p. but it is idolatry on those accounts i mentioned . p. d. on what i pray ? because the law was delivered by them ? how is that possible on t. g.'s principles , when they were only gods ministers therein ? and so praying to gods ministers in heaven is idolatry ; how then will praying to saints escape ? r. p. but theodoret adds , they brought us salvation thereby . p. d. only ministerially ; and this alters not the case . r. p. but suppose they thought access to god was only by them ? p. d. what then ? that might prove them no christians , but doth it prove them idolaters ? suppose they were jews ; must they therefore needs be idolaters ? r. p. but t. g. saith , good angels are not to be worshipped but in subordination to christ the head , nor their prayers to be desired as efficacious for us but through his merits . p. d. and what follows ? therefore leaving out christ is idolatry ? doth t. g. talk at this rate ; and hope to excuse the church of rome from idolatry ? for i still ask , what it was , which made their worship of angels idolatry ? leaving out of christ might make it judaism or heathenism , but how comes it to be idolatry ? r. p. i think you will never be satisfied . p. d. not with such answers , i assure you . r. p. baronius saith , theodoret was mistaken ; and that this canon is to be understood of heathen idolatry ; and that the oratories of michael which theodoret saith , were built by those idolaters , were in truth built by very good catholicks . p. d. this is plain dealing : and baronius saw well enough , there was no way to justifie the church of rome , but by condemning theodoret : but i leave it to any mans consideration , whether theodoret , whose distance was not great , either in age or place , did not better understand the meaning of this council ; and the practises of those times and places , than baronius ; and whether his judgement be not rather to be taken , than that of a man , who turns every stone to avoid a difficulty , which he saw could no otherwise be answered . r. p. ( . ) how can this be the meaning of the council of laodicea , when it declares for the honouring , and celebrating the feast-days of the martyrs ? p. d. doth t. g. call this a second reason ? where lyes the consequence ? the council of laodicea , was for honouring the feast-dayes of the martyrs , therefore the praying to angels is not condemned by it for idolatry . as though there were no way of celebrating their festivals , but by praying to saints and angels . when t. g. proves that meeting at their memories on their anniversary dayes , and praising god for them , and rehearsing their acts , was no keeping their festivals without praying to them ; he will do something towards making this look like a reason . in the mean time , let the reader consider whether praying to saints was practised by greg. nyssen , when praying to angels about the same time by the council of laodicea is condemned for idolatry . but this is not all which i have to say ; for if gregory nyssen's practice doth excuse the modern invocation of saints from idolatry , i desire to know whether it was singular in him , or the sense of the church of that age ? r. p. no doubt t. g. brings it for an instance of the sense of the church : for it were to no great purpose to produce a singular opinion or practice of one man condemned by the rest of the church . p. d. then i ask , whether offering up ones self , or offering up a cake to a saint , be the greater idolatry ? r. p. a mans self certainly . p. d. do not they who devote themselves to a particular saint , choosing her for their perpetual patroness , vowing themselves to be her slaves , offer up themselves to her ? r. p. what would you have ? p. d. i will tell you , epiphanius who lived in the same age with greg. nyssen , condemns those for rank idolatry , who offered up cakes to the b. virgin ; and do you think he would have excused those who offered up themselves and their devotions to her ? and at the same time he condemns the worship both of saints and angels ; in the places produced by dr. st. what answer hath t. g. made to this ? r. p. i do not remember he takes notice of it . p. d. t. g. would make an excellent commentator ; for he knows how to pass over a hard place , as well as any i have met with . but still i have one question more . whether greg. nyssen did argue well against the arians or not ? r. p. why should you question that ? p. d. do you think he spake consistently to himself ? or , if not , is his opinion to be taken from a panegyrical oration , or a strict dispute ? r. p. a strict dispute ; for then men consider every word , and the consequence of it . p. d. greg. nyssen goes upon this principle , to give divine worship to a creature is idolatry : but the arians in worshipping christ as a creature do give divine worship to a creature : therefore , &c. to make good the particulars of this charge , we must consider what greg. nyssen makes to be the parts of divine worship ; and if i can prove , that greg. nyssen doth make prayer to be such a part of divine worship , then by necessary consequence he makes praying to a creature to be idolatry . now it is very well known that greg. nyssen in several places makes prayer with supplication to be peculiar to god ; therefore he calls it a conversing with god ; a request of good things with supplication unto god. in which he agrees with the rest of the fathers , who made religious invocation peculiar to god. sed tamen tu solus domine invocandus es , saith s. ambrose . i do not pray to any besides thy self ; saith ephreem syrus in the officium diurnum of the maronites . we call not on the name of this man or that man , saith s. chrysostome , but on the name of the lord. this is an honour , he saith , god hath reserved to himself , to call upon him , and will not give it to angels or arch-angels ; as he elsewhere speaks . vnto god alone do we pray , saith the greek catena on the fifth psalm . to whom shall i call but unto thee , saith s. augustine . this is the best sacrifice we can offer unto god , say clemens of alexandria and tertullian . it were easie to produce many more testimonies to this purpose , if these be not sufficient to prove , that in greg. nyssens ▪ age , as well as before , prayer was looked on as a peculiar part of divine worship . r. p. to what purpose ? since no body denyes , that prayer as it is a means to obtain blessings from god as the author of them is peculiar to god. p. d. this answer doth not take off the force of the argument . for prayer may be considered two wayes . . as a means to obtain blessings . . as a solemn part of divine worship . now if they reserved prayer to god , on the latter account , then it follows , that whatever invocation doth take off from the peculiarity of this part of external worship , is against the design of the fathers . so origen argues that invocation and adoration do imply each other . invocare nomen domini & adorare deum unum atque idem est . to invocate god and to adore him is all one ; from whence he proves that those who invocate christ do adore him . and where the church of smyrna declares in her epistle about the martyrdom of polycarp , that they did not worship any other but christ , the old latin translation renders it , neque alteri cuiquam precem orationis impendere . and theodoret makes praying to angels , and the worshipping of them the same thing . so that prayer was looked on as a part of adoration ; therefore whosoever gives the external worship of prayer to another besides god , doth give to a creature that which belongs to god. r. p. i know not what you mean , i pray explain your self more . p. d. is not god worshipped solemnly by us , when we joyn together in prayer to him ? r. p. yes . p. d. is not this external worship , that which the fathers mean , by the adoration that is implyed in prayer ? r. p. suppose it be . p. d. wherein lyes this external worship ? is it not that we meet together and joyn in acts of devotion to testifie our acknowledgement of gods soveraignty and dependence upon him ? r. p. what then ? p. d. then whosoever do use the same external acts of worship to a creature , do apply that to a creature which the fathers did suppose to belong only to god ; as if men kneel and pray to saints in the same place , at the same time , with the same ceremonies of devotion they use to god himself , they take off the peculiarity of this worship to god , and make it common to his creatures . r. r. this only reaches to the external acts , but the intention and design of the worshippers with us make the difference . p. d. i do not now meddle with your intention and design ; but i am pursuing the force of the argument used by the fathers . to make this yet more plain to you . the fathers use the argument of external adoration against the arians ; for say they , peter forbad cornelius to worship him , and the angel s. john ; from whence they infer that god only ought to be worshipped , and therefore giving external adoration to christ , supposing him to be a creature , is idolatry . is this argument good , or not ? r. p. let me consider a little : it was good then , but it is not now ; for t. g. saith , it is in the churches power to determine the signification of exteriour signs . p. d. an admirable answer ! which makes the arguments of the fathers in truth to have no force at all . for the arians might say , the external acts of adoration did not signifie the same with them , which they did with catholicks , for they only signified an inferiour and relative worship , when applyed to the son ; and soveraign and absolute worship , when given to the father . so that if there be any force in what the fathers did argue against the arians , it will make the inferiour and relative worship of a creature to be idolatry ; notwithstanding greg. nyssens oration upon theodore . r. p. i am like t. g. who hates a great book upon one subject ; so do i a long discourse upon one argument : methinks greg. nyssen hath taken up a great deal of our time , and i have something more yet to say to you , before we part . p. d. i pray let me hear it , and i suppose it will admit of a quicker dispatch . r. p. it is upon the same head of the doctors fidelity in quoting authors , and it concerns the passage in arnobius , in which t. g. charged him with cogging in the word divinity in the singular number instead of adorable deities in the plural ; and dr. st. answers with a protestation , that he translated these words nihil numinis inesse simulachris , which he saith are but two lines above the words t. g. charges him with . p. d. and how i pray doth t. g. clear himself ? for in my mind he is most concerned to vindicate himself . r. p. he doth it very well ; for he denyes not those words to be there which dr. st. translated , but he saith , he ought not to have translated the words of arnobius to the heathens , but the words of the heathens to arnobius , since his design was to prove the heathens did not worship the images themselves for gods. p. d. a pitiful shift ! t. g. charged dr. st. with cogging in the word divinity in the singular number ; dr. st. shews , it was so used but two lines before those words which t. g. cites , and those were the words he translated . now saith t. g. those were the words of arnobius to the heathen ; what then ? doth he not confute them in something which they held ; if he proves , nihil numinis inesse simulachris , must not they hold aliquid numinis , &c. so that it comes all to one . but to put this out of all doubt , if t. g. had looked a little farther , he might have found these very words of the heathens , illud etiam dicere simulachrorum assertores solent ; surely these are the heathens ; non ignorasse antiquos nihil habere numinis signa . what doth t. g. think now ? had he not better look more about him , before he makes such rude and impertinent clamours about dr. st.'s insincerity in quoting authors ? of which you may judge by this one instance , where himself is so notoriously faulty , and yet from hence he concludes what a sad account of citations we are like to have from him . r. p. what say you to dr. st.'s obs●rvations of the council of trent about the worship of images ? p. d. have you ever been a hunting of squirrels ? r. p. why do you ask me such an impertinent question ? p. d. not so impertinent as you think : for the squirrels leaping from bough to bough , forwards and backwards , is just like t. g.'s answer to dr. st.'s book . for he makes nothing of leaping a hundred or two hundred pages forwards and backwards as the humour takes him . however , let us hear what he hath to say to those observations . for i remember very well , what the design of them was ; viz. that though the worship of latria was owned before it by many divines to be given to images , and that were against the decree of the council of nice ; yet the council of trent allows all external acts of adoration of images , gives no intimation against this kind of worship ; and since it , many of the most eminent divines of your church have justified the giving latria to images , and that from the words of this council . r. p. but t. g. saith , those very divines do not mean by latria proper divine worship , which is due to god and terminated upon him ; but that the act being in their opinion one in substance to the prototype and the images , it is terminated absolutely upon the person of christ for himself , and falls upon the image after an inferiour manner , as a thing only relating to him , and purely for his sake : for which reason , some call it relative latria ; others , secundary ; others , improper ; others , analogical ; others , per accidens ; and the dispute in effect is rather de modo loquendi , than of the thing it self . p. d. to clear this matter , we must consider , ( . ) that the council of nice doth deny latria to be given to an image . ( . ) that the divines of the roman church do say that the practice of the church cannot be defended in the worship of the cross , without giving latria to it . ( . ) that the council of trent , when just occasion was given , declares nothing against this ; for although it referrs to the council of nice , yet when it gives the reason of worship , it doth it in such terms , that many of your divines say , must infer the worship of latria to be given to them . r. p. what if it doth , saith t. g. since , it is only a dispute about words , and all agree that the worship proper to god , signified primarily by the word latria , is not to be given to images ? p. d. that must be a little better considered . for do you think it is possible to give the worship proper to god to an image , or not ? if it be not , why did the council of nice declare against it ; if it be , tell me in what acts that worship of latria doth consist ? r. p. it is when men give proper divine honour to an image . p. d. what is this proper divine honour ? for you are not one step forwarder by this answer . i see i must come to particulars . were the gnosticks and ancient hereticks to blame in their worship of images , or not ? r. p. no doubt they were ; for they stand condemned by the church for that worship they gave to images . p. d. wherein did their fault lye ? r. p. in giving divine honour and worship to the image . p. d. did not they worship the image of christ ? r. p. and what then ? p. d. then their fault lay in giving divine worship to the image of christ ? r. p. yes , proper divine worship . p. d. what was that proper divine worship ? was it absolute , or relative ? r. p. absolute . p. d. then it was giving divine worship to an image of christ , without respect to christ ; which is either non-sense , or a contradiction . is it possible to give divine worship to an image of a person , without respect to the person ? men may worship a piece of wood , or a stone , without respect to a person ; but to worship that which represents , and on that account , because it represents , without any respect to what it represents , is a contradiction ; therefore the worship of an image as such is a relative worship ; and proper latria as given to an image is relative latria . r. p. but men may give absolute divine worship to an image ; for may not a man joyn in his mind the image and person represented as one object of worship , and so give proper divine worship to both considered as one ? p. d. i thank you for that : for so i find some of your divines have determined that in this sense absolute and proper divine worship may be given to the cross. and dr. st. produced several of them , who contended for an absolute latria to be due to images : such as ludovicus à paramo , paulus maria quarti , gamachaeus a late professour of divinity in the sorbon ; and others . r. p. but t. g. saith , they only differ in modo loquendi . p. d. i think rather in modo colendi . for are not absolute and relative worship two distinct kinds ? how else comes the giving absolute worship to be idolatry , and not the giving relative ? and if giving absolute worship be idolatry , all in your church are guilty of it , who worship the image and thing represented as one object . if it be not , then there can be none to an image as such . r. p. yes ; if they offer sacrifice to images , as the gnosticks did . p. d. s. augustin and theodoret say ; they adored images , and offered incense to them . and is not the very same practised in your church ? if this were idolatry in them , why not in you ? unless your church hath power to change the nature of idolatry : which is all one with changing the nature of vertues and vices . r. p. but they sacrificed to images as the heathens did . p. d. true ; for the burning incense before images was thought to be sacrificing to them , being joyned with adoration . and the christians chose rather to dye , than to joyn in that act of worship towards the images of the emperours : whence dr. st. observed , that burning of incense towards images was the same tryal of christians , that eating of swines flesh was of the jews . i pray tell me , was there any harm in this or not ? supposing the christians looked on the emperours as gods vicegerents , and the images only as representing them ? r. p. i see what you aim at ; you would have me condemn the primitive christians or our selves : according to the sense of the church at that time , it was unlawful , but according to the sense of our church now , it is lawful to do the same things out of honour to the images of christ , or his saints . p. d. that is , your church is innocent , if your church may be judge . but i now dispute upon your own principles of relative worship , whether those acts might not have been done to the emperours images , which had saved the lives of so many martyrs ? r. p. no ; for the emperours then exacted to be worshipped as gods , i. e. with divine worship . p. d. was that divine worship supreme or not ? i. e. did they take the emperours for supreme deities ? r. p. no ; but they gave them the worship of the supreme deity . p. d. then the giving this worship was thought idolatry , though mens conceptions were right as to their being creatures . r. p. but what is this to the worship of images ? p. d. was it not lawful to give the same worship to the images of the emperours as to the emperours themselves ? might not they look on the emperours as gods vicegerents , and so give them relative latria on that account ; and then look on their images as representing them , and so give a secundary , improper , analogical relative latria to their images ? and by this means the heathens and the christians had only differed in modo loquendi ; but the christians had saved their lives by the bargain . r. p. but our dispute is of the images of christ , and not of heathen emperours . p. d. i only shew the absurd consequences of this doctrine , and how inconsistent it is with the principles of primitive christianity . but i return to the distinctions of your divines about latria being given to images . you all agree t. g. saith , that the worship proper to god is not to be given to images . is not latria the worship proper to god ? r. p. yes : proper latria is ; but not improper and relative . p. d. is there any worship so proper to god , that it cannot be improperly and relatively given to an image ? r. p. what do you mean ? for i do not understand you . p. d. rather , you will not . i ask you , whether there be any such act of worship so proper to god , that you may not in respect to god , do that to his image ; or in respect to christ , do that to the cross ? r. p. although there may be none such , yet the church doth not use all acts of worship to the image , which it doth to god. p. d. i not ask what you do ; but what upon your principles you may do . and suppose a man doth that act which your church allows not , is he guilty of idolatry or bare disobedience in doing it to an image ? r. p. of idolatry . p. d. then there are such external acts of worship so proper to god himself , that the doing them to an image for his sake is idolatry . as to sacrifice to an image for the sake of christ is idolatry . is it not ? r. p. yes . p. d. is the improper and relative sacrificing to an image idolatry ? r. p. you ask an untoward question . for i see what you drive at . p. d. answer me directly . is it , or is it not ? r. p. i think it is . p. d. then it follows , that this distinction of proper and improper , absolute and relative latria signifies nothing . for if the acts of worship are proper to god , no relative or improper use of them can excuse from idolatry ; if they are not proper , then it is no latria . r. p. i must think again of this matter . for as you represent it , this can never excuse us . p. d. i wonder so many subtle men should ever think it would . but i will not thus give it over . when the council of nice did forbid latria being given to an image , did they mean to an image , as a piece of wood , or stone ; or to an image , as an image ? r. p. as an image . for they did forbid giving latria to that which they worshipped , but they worshipped it as an image , for the sake of the prototype . p. d. your reason is unanswerable . therefore i say , they did forbid all relative latria of an image , call it by what name soever you please . for the worship of an image as such must be relative worship . therefore all those who contend for relative latria are condemned by the council of nice . besides , i would fain know of these gentlemen , whether their improper and relative latria , be latria or inferiour worship ? one or other it must be ; and it is a contradiction to say latria is inferiour worship ; for that is to say , it is latria , and it is not . if it be then true latria , i ask whether the image as an image be god or a creature ; if it be a creature , as no doubt it is , then true latria is given to a creature ; which according to t. g. must be idolatry . again ; either it is the same act of latria which is terminated on the person of christ absolutely , and on the cross relatively ; or it is a different act. if the same act ; then there is a double worship , and but one act ; for there is an absolute worship of the person of christ , and a relative worship of the image ; and let it be relative , or what it will , it is a real act of worship ; and so there must be two acts , and yet it is but one act. for is the image or cross worshipped , or not ? if it be worshipped , there must be an act of worship terminated on it ; and how can there be an act of worship terminated upon it , if the same act passeth from the image to the prototype ? these are unintelligible subtleties , and only invented to confound mens understandings , as to the true and distinct notion of divine worship ; and to blind their minds in the practice of idolatry . farther , if this be a difference only de modo loquendi , as t. g. saith , then the very same act may be proper and improper , absolute and relative , per se and per accidens . for so t. g. saith , that it is one act in substance ; but it is absolute as terminated on the person of christ , relative as on the cross ; proper in one sense , improper in the other ; per se in the former sense , per accidens in the later . which catharinus thought to be no less than ridiculous . lastly , there is nothing in the world , but may be worshipped with latria by the help of these distinctions . for a divine presence in the creatures is really a far better ground of worship , than a bare fiction of the mind , that the image and the thing represented are all one . but of this we have discoursed already . r. p. to tell you plainly my mind , i never liked this giving latria to images my self ; but it being a common doctrine in our church , we ought to say as much for it as we can ; but i am only for an inferiour worship to be given to them , and so is t. g. if i do not much mistake his meaning . p. d. let us then consider this inferiour worship , as distinct from latria ; and concerning this i shall prove , that it neither answers the reasons given by councils ; nor the practice of the roman church . ( . ) not the reasons given by the councils of nice and trent . for which i desire but these two postulata . . that images are to have true and proper worship given to them ; which is expressely determined by those councils . . that the reason of this worship is nothing inherent in the image , but something represented by it . which is affirmed by those councils . from hence i argue thus . to worship christ only before an image is not to give proper worship to the image , which the councils require to be given . therefore either the image is to be worshipped for it self , which were idolatry by your own confession ; or christ is to be worshipped in and by the image . r. p. christ is to be worshipped in and by the image . p. d. then you give christ the worship due to him , or not ? r. p. the worship due to him . p. d. but the worship due to christ is proper latria ; therefore you must give proper latria to christ as worshipped in and by the image . r. p. true ; but we give it to the image of christ otherwise than to his person ; for we worship him absolutely , and the image respectively and for his sake . p. d. that is it which i would have ; that there is no worshipping an image on the account of representation , but you must fall into the doctrine of relative latria . r. p. but may not i shew respect to the cross for christs sake , without giving the same worship to the cross , that i do to christ ? p. d. that is not the question ; but whether you may worship christ in and by the cross representing his person , without giving that worship which belongs to the person of christ ? for either you worship the cross for it self , which you confess to be idolatry ; or you worship christ as represented by it : if you worship christ , you must give him the worship which belongs to him , and that can be no other than latria . which not only appears by the doctrine but by the practice of your church in the worship of the cross. which i prove by the second particular , viz. ( . ) inferiour worship doth not come up to the practice of your church , because your church in praying to the cross speaks to it , as if it were christ himself . o crux ave , spes unica , &c. as aquinas observes and many other of your divines , who never own any prosopopoeia ; but do say , that the cross is truly worshipped with that worship which belongs to the person of christ , on the account of representation . and can you imagine so many of your most eminent divines would have put themselves to so much difficulty in defending a relative latria , if they could have defended the practice of your church without it ? but they saw plainly the church did own such a worship to the cross ; and when occasion was offered , did declare it , as in the place cited out of the pontifical by dr. st. , which it would never have done , if it had not been agreeable to its sense . r. p. but this is but one single passage , and will you condemn a whole church for that ? p. d. not , if the sense of the church were otherwise fully expressed against it ; but here we have shewed that passage to be very agreeable to the reason of worship given by your councils ; and to the solemn practice of your church in adoration of the cross ; and therefore that passage ought to be looked on as a more explicite declaration of the sense of the church . for , let me ask you , if the church of rome had been against latria being given to the cross ; whether in a book of such publick and constant use as the pontifical is , it should be left standing , when the book-menders are so busie in your church , that scarce an index of a father can escape them ; nor such sentences as seem to thwart their present doctrine . of which take this instance . you remember what stir t. g. made about gregory nyssen's oration upon theodore ; now the same person disputing against the arians , saith , that no created thing is to be worshipped by men ; this sentence antonius in his melissa had put down thus , that we are only to worship that being which is uncreated . this book happened to come under the spanish index of cardinal quiroga ; do you think he would suffer it to stand as it did ? no , i assure you , deleatur dictio solummodo , saith he ; satis pro imperio . away with this only . why so ? was it not in the author ? no matter for that . it is against the practice of the church ; out with it . more such instances might be produced : but i appeal to your self , whether after such care hath been taken to review the pontifical by clement . and the publishing of it with so much authority , such a passage would have been suffered to remain , if it had been any wayes repugnant to the sense of the church ? r. p. but t. g. saith , the terms of communion with the church are not the opinions of her school-divines , but the decrees of her councils . p. d. and what then ? did dr. st. meddle with the school-divines any otherwise than as they explained the sense of councils , or the practice of the church ? and what helps more proper to understand these , than the doctrine of your most learned divines ? t. g. will have one mr. thorndike to speak the sense of the church of england , against the current doctrine of the rest , as dr. st. hath proved ; yet he will not allow so many divines of greatest note and authority to explain the sense of the church of rome ? is this equal dealing ? r. p. t. g. saith , that for his life he cannot understand any more the idolatry of worshipping an image , than the treason of bowing to a chair of state , or the adultery of a wives kissing her husbands picture ; and that the same subtilties may be used against these , as against the other ; and therefore notwithstanding the disputes of school-divines , honest nature informed with christian principles will be security enough against the practice of idolatry in honouring the image of christ for his sake . p. d. what is the matter with t. g. that for his life he can understand these things no better , after all the pains which hath been taken about him ? hath not the difference of these cases been laid open before him ? do not your own writers confess , that in some cases an image may become an idol , by having divine worship given to it ? is this then the same case with a wives kissing her husbands picture ? doth not this excuse the gnosticks worship of the image of christ , as well as yours ? if there may be idolatry in the worship of an image , we are then to consider , whether your worship be not idolatry ? especially , since both parties charge each other with idolatry ; those who will have it to be latria , and those who will not . and i do not see what honest nature can do in this case , however assisted , unless it can make the worship of images to be neither one nor the other . i see t. g. would fain make it to be no more than bare honour of an image for the sake of christ ; but this doth not come up to the decrees of councils , the general sense of divines , and the constant practice of your church ; if ever worship was given to images you give it , by using all acts of adoration towards them . r. p. but suppose the king had made an order , that due honour and respect should be given to the chair of state , ought not that to be observed , notwithstanding the disputes which might arise about the nature of the act ? p. d. to answer this , we must suppose a command from god that we must worship an image of christ , as we do his person ; but here it is just contrary . the reason of the second command being owned by the christian church to hold against the worship of images now as well as under the law. but those in the church of rome who do charge each other with idolatry , without supposing any such command , do proceed upon the nature of the worship ; which must either be divine worship , which one party saith is idolatry , being the same which is given to god ; or an inferiour religious worship , which the other party saith must be idolatry , being an expression of our submission to an inanimate thing . and for my life i cannot see what answer t. g. makes to this . r. p. t. g. saith , the rules of the church are to be observed in this case as the rules of the court about the chair of state. p. d. what! are the rules of the church to be observed absolutely , whether against the law of god or not ? which is as much as to say at court , that the orders of the green-cloth are to be observed , against his majesties pleasure . but not to insist on that ; i say in this case the rules of the church help nothing ; for they who do follow the rules of the church must do one , or the other of these ; and whichsoever they do , they are charged with idolatry . and therefore dr. st. had great reason to say ; where there is no necessity of doing the thing , the best way to avoid idolatry is to give no worship to images at all . r. p. what will become of the rules of the church , saith t. g. if men may be permitted to break them for such capriches as these are ? p. d. are you in earnest ? doth t. g. call these capriches ? idolatry is accounted both by fathers and schoolmen a crime of the highest nature ; and when i am told i must commit it one way or other , by your divines , if i give worship to images , is this only a capriche ? r. p. will not the same reason hold against bowing to the altar ; bowing being an act of worship appropriated to god ? p. d. will the same reason hold against bowing out of reverence to almighty god ? which i have told you again and again , is all our church allows in that which you call , bowing to the altar . i see you are very hard put to it , to bring in this single instance , upon every turn , against the plain sense and declaration of our church . if this be all t. g. upon so long consideration hath to say in this matter , it is not hard to judge , who hath much the better cause . r. p. i pray hold from triumphing a while ; for there is a fresh charge behind , wherein you will repent , that ever you undertook to defend dr. st. , it is concerning the unjust parallel he hath made between the heathen and romish idolatry . p. d. i see no cause to repent hitherto . and i hope i shall find as little when i come to that . the fourth conference , about the parallel between the heathen and romish idolatry . r. p. have you considered what t. g. saith , concerning the parallel between the heathen and romish idolatry , and doth not your heart fail you , as to the defence of dr. st. which you promised to undertake ? p. d. no truly . the more i have considered it , the less i fear it . r. p. what think you of the notion of idolatry he chargeth on t. g. ? viz. that it is the giving the soveraign worship of god to a creature , and among the heathens to the devil , as if the idolatry of the heathens consisted only in worshipping the devil ; whereas it appears from the words dr. st. cites out of him , that he charged the heathens with idolatry in worshipping their images for gods , and the creatures for gods ; although withal they worshipped evil spirits , and t. g. contends , that their supream god was an arch-devil . p. d. is this such a difficulty to be set in the front ? i suppose it is only to try whether i will stumble at the threshold . if the supreme god whom the heathens worshipped was an arch-devil , as t. g. saith , then without all question they gave their most soveraign worship to the devil . and when he pleads so earnestly , that all the gods of the heathens were devils , under whatsoever name or title they worshipped them ; what injury can t. g. think it to his hypothesis to say , that the heathen idolatry did consist in giving soveraign worship to the devil ? besides dr. st.'s words do not imply , that according to t. g. the heathens did not give soveraign worship to other things , but that they did it eminently to the devil ; which must needs follow , if the supreme god among them was no other than an arch-devil ; as t. g. then asserted , and now endeavours more at large to prove . r. p. therefore waving this , i come to the main point ; whether the heathen jupiter were the true god , or an arch-devil ? p. d. you are just like the author of a late scurrilous pamphlet called jupiter , dr. st. 's supreme god , &c. who would fain reduce the whole question of idolatry to this single point , without considering either the occasion of this question , or the main arguments used by dr. st. , or the very scope and design of his discourse : but he is so pitiful a trifler , that he deserves no notice at all . that we may proceed more clearly in this debate , we ought first to attend to the principal question ; which was , whether idolatry be consistent with the acknowledgement of one supreme being ? and the reason of this question was , because those who did plead the most plausibly in excusing your church from idolatry , went upon this principle , that supposing men preserved in their minds the notion of one supreme being , it is impossible they should give to a creature that honour which was due to god alone . to overthrow this dr. st. undertook to shew , that this principle would equally excuse the heathen idolatry , since both the ancient and modern heathens did own one supreme god. and if this be granted him , it matters not to the main design of his discourse whether it were jupiter or not . and it is a wonder to me , since the man in t. g.'s dialogues who argues against dr. st. professes himself a disciple of mr. thorndike , he should never take notice of this principle , nor once go about to defend it . but since t. g. acknowledges that the heathens had a notion of one supreme being ingraffed in their minds by nature ; the point then in debate is , on what account they were charged with idolatry ; and whether that will not reach to the practices of the roman church , i. e. whether their idolatry lay in worshipping the creature and not the creator ; or in giving divine worship though of different degrees to the creature and the creator ? and here lies the main strength of this controvesie ; and supposing dr. st. were mistaken as to the sense of the fathers , about jupiter ; yet if the true notion of idolatry be proved to consist in giving the same divine worship to god and his creatures , his parallel will be sufficient to make good the charge of idolatry against the church of rome . yet , since t. g. seems to lay so much weight upon the fathers sense concerning jupiter , i am content to examine them together with you ; but in the first place let us consider , what the scripture saith to this point ; for as i remember dr. st. began with that , then he proceeded to your own writers , and at last brought in the testimonies of fathers , and i see no reason we should go off from this method . r. p. since you will have it so , i will begin with the scripture ; and dr. st. pretends to prove jupiter to be the supreme god from those words acts . whom ye ignorantly worship , him i declare unto you . p. d. consider , i pray , the question between dr. st. and t. g. , viz. whether it were the true god , or an arch-devil : and dr. st. argues in these words . did st. paul mean the devil when he said , whom you ignorantly worship , him i declare unto you ? did he in good earnest go abroad to preach the devil to the world ? yet he preached him whom they ignorantly worshipped . what saith t. g. to this ? r. p. from this very inscription , to the unknown god , he notably proves , it could not be understood of jupiter who was a known god ; and st. paul could not be said to come to preach their jupiter to the athenians , when he expresly tells them , he came to declare to them a god whom they did not know . p. d. to this i answer , that the athenians had so confounded the notion of the supreme god , with that of the poetical jupiter , and the peoples fancies were so stained and polluted with those vulgar representations of jove which they learnt from the poets and painters , that the apostle rather chose to preach the true god to them from the inscription to the unknown god , than from any altars that were inscribed jovi opt. max. because the people would have imagined , if st. paul had made choice of any usual inscription to a deity worshipped in common with the rest , that he must in consequence allow the nature and kind of their worship . for they joyned jupiter and the rest of their gods together , the body of their worship consisting of an acknowledgment of one as supreme , viz. jupiter , and of the rest as worshipped together with him ; and so their worship being a complex thing , it was more agreeable to the apostles design , which was to destroy their idolatry , not to make use of that notion of god which was corrupted by their idolatries , but to take advantage from the inscription to the unknown god , so to declare his nature , as to confute their idolatrous worship , as he doth in the following verses . jupiter therefore as he was the head of the heathen worship , and as he stood in conjunction with their other deities , was a known god amongst them , and solemnly worshipped by the athenians ; but as by jove was understood the eternal mind as the only proper object of divine worship , and therefore ought not to be worshipped with mens hands , nor to be joyned with his creatures , so he was an unknown god. for they had no other knowledge of a supreme god , than as of one who admitted others into a participation of the same worship with himself . and there were these two things which made those gentiles disown the god of the jews , who agreed with them in the acknowledgement of one supreme god who made the world , ( . ) that he would be worshipped by no images or representations of himself . ( . ) that he would admit no inferiour beings to have any share in divine worship , but all such were accounted idolaters by the jewish laws , who according to the eastern customs worshipped any other as mediators , or inferiour deities . from hence the heathens accounted the god of the jews an unknown and unsociable deity ; there being no representations made of him ; nor any others to be joyned in worship with him : therefore dion cassius calls him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a god who could neither be described nor represented . if we believe georgius syncellus , this altar and inscription to the vnknown god , was but lately set up at athens ; whence st. paul might have the greater reason to take notice of it , and from thence to declare how unsuitable their worship was to the true god. and therefore st. paul when he supposes the true god to be the unknown god among them , speaks not in respect of his eternal being , for even t. g. confesseth the heathens had the notion of one supreme god ingrafted in their minds by nature ; but in respect of his way of worship , without images or inferiour deities . for so he pursues his discourse , by arguing from his perfections against that way of worship which was in use among them . whereas , if he had supposed them wholly ignorant of one supreme god , his first and most necessary work had been to have proved there was such a one ; but this he supposes as a thing well enough known in general by them ; but not worshipped by them as he ought to be . god that made the world and all things therein , seeing that he is lord of heaven and earth , dwelleth not in temples made with hands ; nor is worshipped with mens hands , &c. if st. paul had supposed them ignorant of a supreme god , ought he not first to have proved that there was a god who made the world , &c. but since there was no dispute about that , he shews the incongruity of their way of worship to the perfections of his nature . st. augustin proves from this place , whom ye ignorantly worship , him i declare unto you ; that the true god was truly though ignorantly worshipped by the athenians . for , saith he , what did st. paul preach to them , but that the same god whom they ignorantly and unprofitably worshipped out of the church , they should worship wisely and savingly in the church ? one god , saith he , is worshipped ignorantly without the church , and yet he is the same god : as it is the same faith which is without charity out of the church ; for it is one god and one faith , and one catholick church ; non in quâ solâ unus deus colitur , sed in quâ solâ unus deus piè colitur . not in which alone one god is worshipped ; but in which alone one god is piously worshipped . the fault then of the athenians lay in their manner of the worship of the true god , and not in the total neglect of it , or in worshipping an arch-devil instead of him . r. p. t. g. doth not deny that they had some confused notion of a supreme god , but he saith , that he whom they worshipped under the notion of jupiter was an arch-devil . p. d. it appears by s. augustin , that they worshipped the same god , while they were heathens and when they became christians , but after a different manner . and as to jupiter , dr. st. observes , that s. paul quotes the saying of aratus , for we are his off-spring ; which words are spoken of jupiter by the poet , and applyed to the true god by the apostle ; and surely he did not mean that we are the devils off-spring ; but from thence he infers , that we are the off-spring of god : so that if s. paul may be credited rather than t. g. their jupiter was so far from being the arch-devil , that he was the true god , blessed for evermore . r. p. to this t. g. answers , that it is no wonder a heathen poet should apply the attributes of the true god to jupiter ; and the name of jupiter to the true god , as being the name of that deity which was supreme among them ; but s. paul takes the poets words by way of abstraction from jupiter , and applyes them to the true god ; leaving out all mention of jupiter , and changing his name ; which he would not have done if their jupiter was the true god. p. d. i pray tell me one thing ; did s. paul only intend to fill up his discourse with the end of a verse , as some writers do , with omne tulit punctum , &c. or did he intend it by way of argument to convince the athenians ? r. p. s. paul surely did not affect pedantry , and therefore it must be argumentative . p. d. if that be granted , consider the force of the argument in t. g.'s sense of s. pauls words . for in him we live and move and have our being ; as certain also of your own poets have said , for we are also his off-spring . for as much then as we are the off-spring of god , &c. s. paul proves that we have our life , motion , and subsistence from god , from the words of aratus ; for we are his off-spring : either aratus did speak of the same god whom s. paul speaks of , or not ? if not , where lyes the force of the argument ? if he did , then s. paul allows aratus his jupiter to be the supreme god. whosoever reads the verses in aratus cannot imagine he should mean any else ; and the greek scholiast there saith , by jupiter he meant the god that made the world. and dr. st. produced the testimony of aristobulus the jewish philosopher , to the same purpose , viz. that under the name of jove , his design was to express the true god. r. p. t. g. doth not deny that aratus might apply the name of jupiter to the true god , and the attributes of the true god to jupiter : but , he saith , it doth not follow that s. paul , because he cited him , thought their jupiter to be the true god. p. d. suppose then s. paul was of t. g.'s mind , and that their jupiter was an arch-devil ; and see what admirable reasoning he attributes to s. paul. we have all our dependence upon god , as certain of your own poets have said , speaking of him who was really an arch-devil ; for we are his off-spring . if an athenian had asked s. paul , whose off-spring doth aratus say we are ? gods or the devils ? if jove meant by aratus was no other than an arch-devil , how doth this prove us to have our dependence on god for life and motion ? if he were the true god , then i grant it follows ; and the jupiter meant by aratus must be the supreme god. if aratus doth give the name of jupiter to the true god , then he that was meant under that name was the true god ; and s. paul bringing this sentence to prove a main point of divinity must allow him that was called by the name of jupiter to have been the true god. and if t. g. doth yield that the poet did apply the name of jupiter to the true god , he gives up the cause , for that is all which dr. st. contends for : and surely it is not possible for t. g. to imagine the true god and an arch-devil to be the same . and supposing that dr. st. had such a faculty as he mentions , of changing the devil himself into god ; it seems much more desirable , than that of t. g. of changing the true god into an arch-devil . r. p. but doth not s. paul say , that the heathens offered to devils and not to god ; and will you make s. paul to contradict himself ? p. d. s. paul doth not there speak of their intention and design ; for they professed to worship the true god , and good spirits as inferiour deities ; but what their worship was in gods account ; which being so abominably corrupted with idolatry and superstition , was so far from being pleasing to god , that it could be acceptable to none but impure spirits . from whence you may do well to observe , that worship is not terminated according to the i●●ention of the persons , but according to the nature and design of the worship ; for the heathens , when they were urged , did stifly maintain , that the spirits they worshipped , were good in themselves and kind to us , and utterly denyed that they worshipped any other , as dr. st. hath shewed ; but notwithstanding this s. paul doth charge them with the worshipping of devils and not of god. and the main argument the fathers had to prove them to be evil spirits was because they received such worship from men , which good spirits would never have done . this observation is of necessary use for understanding both scripture and fathers , when they charge the heathen idolaters with worshipping devils and not god ; as will appear by our following discourse . this place doth not therefore prove that the gentiles did not intend to worship the true god under the title of jupiter o. m. but that idolatrous worship doth not tend to the honour of god , but to the service of the devil . r. p. do not you remember , when at lystra the priest of jupiter would have offered sacrifice to s. paul as mercury , and to barnabas as jove , in whose shapes they supposed those gods to have appeared , s. paul not only forbad them to do it , but told them their design was to convert them from those vain things to the living god : and can you now think that s. paul meant jupiter by this living god , when he taught them to convert themselves from those vain things ( their false gods ) to the living god , i. e. to jupiter ? was this his way to perswade the men of lystra to leave the worship of their gods , to tell them that he came to teach them to worship jupiter ? p. d. is there no difference between these two questions ; whether the true god might not be worshipped among the heathens under the title of jupiter o. m. ? and whether jupiter of creet as worshipped by them was not a false god ? this later dr. st. never denyed ; and the former was all he pleaded for , as pertinent to his purpose . when they did make such a description of him as to his power , and goodness , as could not agree to such a wretch as the cretan jupiter was described by the poets ; when they rejected the poetical fables , and declared as plainly as men could do , that they understood the supreme governour of the world ; as dr. st. hath at large shewed ; the question is , whether under the name of jove they meant the true god or not ? but doth he ever so much as intimate that jupiter of creet was not a false god ? or that s. paul and the apostles did not go about to convert mankind from the vanities of idol-worship in the sacrifices they made to this jupiter and mercury , as well as any other of their inferiour deities ? to make this matter more clear , which concerns the worship of jupiter among the heathens ; we are to observe , . that the name was more ancient in greece for an object of divine worship than jupiter of creet . if this can be made out , then although this name might be applyed to a particular person , ( as it was usual in the eastern parts to call their princes by the name of their gods ) yet originally it belonged to the deity , and consequently might still be properly attributed to him ; and under that name they might well understand the supreme god. for the proof of this , i make use of an observation of pausanias , and of others from him ; viz. that cecrops was the first who called the supreme god 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or jove ; eusebius hath it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; hic primus omnium jovem appellavit , saith isidore . it is well known that cecrops came out of egypt , from whence herodotus observes the greeks took the names of their gods ; cecrops lived in the time of moses , and before the flood of deucalion saith varro : it happened in his time , say eusebius and s. hierome , in which great part of thessaly and greece were overwhelmed . but jupiter of creet , by whom europa the daughter of agenor was taken , was the fifth in descent from deucalion , according to diodorus , being the son of tectamus , the son of dorus , the son of hellen , the son of deucalion . his proper name , diodorus saith , was asterius , whom eusebius follows : s. augustin calls him zanthus , and strabo , zathus ; whose son jon carryed the colonies of greeks into the twelve cities of asia , from him called jonia . from hence it appears that the name of jupiter did not properly belong to him of creet , but was assumed by him , when he affected divine honours . . this jupiter of creet did obtain divine honour under that name among the rude and barbarous greeks . and this was the great discovery made by euhemerus , from the inscription in the temple of jupiter triphylius in greece : from whence it appeared , that this king of creet was a very busie and active prince , having great command both at sea and land , and was very successful in reducing the barbarous people under laws and government , and in many useful inventions for the benefit of humane life : which made the people after his death in creet , bestow the greatest divine honours upon him , and worship him under the most sacred name . for it had been a custome long before among the greeks to deifie the most useful men ; as s. augustine observes of phegous the brother of phoroneus ; of apis king of the argives who dyed in egypt ; of argus who had a temple and sacrifices allotted to him ; of phorbas , jasus , sthenelus , who were all princes among the old greeks . and therefore it was no wonder such people should give divine worship to this prince , who had brought them into so much order in comparison of what they were in before . from hence we find him not only worshipped in creet , where he had several titles from the places where his temples stood , as idaeus , dictaeus , arbius , asius , temillius and scyllius , &c. but in greece , as ithometes , atabyrius , triphylius , olympius , cithaeronius , &c. and whereever the colonies of greeks in asia were , as at tarsus , s. paul's own countrey ; and he was called sardessius , from a city of lycia , chrysosoreus from a place in caria , tarantaeus from a city in bithynia , dolichaeus from a city in comagene , abretanus from a place in mysia , and asbameus from a fountain in cappadocia . is this now any such mighty argument to prove that jupiter could not be taken for the supreme god , because in lystra a city of lycaonia s. paul and barnabas refused the worship the people would have given to them , as to jupiter and mercury ? among the grecian colonies , what wonder is it , if the grecian jupiter was worshipped ? and who ever said , that he was not a false god ? but , after all this , suppose they did mean the great and original jupiter , the maker of the world , had not s. paul and barnabas reason to turn them from the vanities of their worship , when they found them so ready to give divine honours to two men whom they fancied to appear in the likeness of their gods , by doing a sudden and unexpected miracle ? and if it were lawful , by the light of nature to give divine worship of an inferiour degree to mankind , what made the apostles so concerned to run in among them , and to rent their clothes , and to cry out , we are men of like passions with you . therefore all that strain of t. g.'s rhetorick whereby he endeavours to return dr. st.'s arguments upon himself from this place , hath no manner of strength or pungency in it . but what saith t. g. to dr. st.'s other argument from scripture , viz. that s. paul to the romans doth say , that which is known of god was manifest among the heathens ; that his eternal power and godhead were so far discovered that they were left without excuse in their gross idolatry ? how could this be , if their supreme god whom they worshipped were only an arch-devil ? or doth t. g. suppose , that they did own one true god , but gave all their worship to the devil ? and since the name of jupiter was used to express alwayes the chief god whom they did own , and by such characters as could only agree to the true god , is it any wayes likely they should never intend to worship him under that name ? when dr. st. hath shewed from dio chrysostom , that by jupiter they meant the first and greatest god , the supreme governour of the world , and king over all rational beings . r. p. i do not find t. g. takes any notice of the other argument from scripture , but he applyes himself to the fathers . p. d. but what saith he to the testimonies dr. st. produced of the writers of his own church , a full jury of them , who frankly acknowledge that the heathens did own and worship one supreme god ? r. p. i suppose he thought none of the rest worth answering : but he finds great fault with the testimony out of aquinas . p. d. this is a rare way of answering . dr. st. produced twelve several authors of good reputation , t. g. takes no notice of eleven of them , and because he makes some cavils at the twelfth , he would have this pass for an answer to them all . r. p. but the dr. loseth his credit so much in that , that we need not to examine the rest . p. d. why so ? it is possible a man through haste or inadvertency , or as t. g. expresseth it , through a casual undulation of the visual rays , may for once mistake ; but doth it follow , that he must do it for twelve times together ? but i have not yet found any cause for these clamours ; and i suppose there may be as little as to this testimony : i pray tell me where lyes it ? r. p. t. g. makes a great many words about it , but the short of the charge is this , that what aquinas spoke of some of the philosophers , viz. the platonicks , who acknowledged one supreme god , from whom they said , all those others whom they called gods , did receive their being : dr. st. interprets as spoken of the generality of the heathens , who are there said to acknowledge a multitude of gods properly so called . p. d. i know not whether to express greater shame or indignation at this disingenuous dealing . there needs no other answer , but to set down aquinas his words , and to leave the reader to construe them . hac autem veritate repelluntur gentiles deorum multitudinem confitentes , quamvis plures eorum unum deum summum esse dicerent , à quo omnes alios quos deos nominabant , creatos esse asserebant , &c. can any thing be plainer from these words , than that those gentiles are refuted who held a multitude of independent deities , although the greater number of them ( of whom ? is it not of the heathens he spake of before ? and where is there one word of platonists or philosophers in the whole sentence ? ) do acknowledge one supreme god , of whom all others whom they called gods did receive their being . what can be more evident from these words , than that although some among the heathens might hold a multitude of independent deities , yet the greater number did not ? the single question here is , whether plures gentilium , doth signifie the greater number of gentiles , or the small number of platonists , who are not once mentioned ? but besides this , dr. st. produces another testimony out of the same book of aquinas , where he makes three several schemes of the heathen worship , viz. ( . ) of those who held one first principle , but thought divine worship might be given to inferiour beings . ( . ) of those who supposed god to be the soul of the world . ( . ) of those who worshipped animated images . if the other had been the general opinion of the heathen , he would have ranked it in the first place ; viz. of those who gave divine worship to many independent deities , but he doth not so much as mention it , where it had been very proper to do it . and it is plain from this testimony of aquinas , that it is idolatry to give divine worship to any creatures , although of never so great excellency . r. p. let us come to the fathers i beseech you , for my fingers itch to be at them ; for i see t. g. hath taken more than ordinary pains to prove , that the fathers make the heathens supreme god to be an arch-devil : but it is necessary in the first place to state the question aright . p. d. i think so too . r. p. t. g. hath taken some pains to do it , to prevent misunderstanding . for he takes notice of four several questions which may relate to this matter . ( . ) whether the heathens did not acknowledge one supreme god ? which he yields , and produces several testimonies of the fathers to that purpose . ( . ) whether the heathens did not pretend that they understood this supreme god by jupiter , and accordingly gave him the titles due to the supreme god ? this t. g. denies not , to be fully proved by dr. st. , but he saith all these testimonies are impertinent . ( . ) whether the fathers do not acknowledge that this was pretended by the heathens ? this t. g. accounts impertinent too : for , saith he , they might cite some sayings of the heathen to that purpose , and yet be of a contrary judgement themselves . but the point in debate between the dr. and t. g. is this , ( . ) whether it were the fathers own sense that jupiter was the supreme god ? p. d. i pray tell me for what end were the fathers appealed to in this dispute about the nature of idolatry ? was it not to prove idolatry consistent with the acknowledgement of one supreme god ? for doth not dr. st. propose several ways for the proof of this concerning the heathens , either the testimony of the heathens themselves ; or of the writers of the roman church , or of the scriptures , or of those fathers who disputed against their idolatry , or of the roman church it self ? therefore the fathers were appealed to as witnesses concerning this main point ; and if it appear from them that it was idolatry in the heathens to own a supreme deity and to give divine worship to any created being , then the notion of idolatry will reach to the roman church . but t. g. endeavours to get off from the close debate of this , which was the most pertinent of all , and would fain substitute another question in the place of it , which was but a secondary and accidental dispute occasioned by t. g.'s saying that the heathens supreme god was an arch-devil . although dr. st. hath proved that was not agreeable to the general sense of the fathers , yet any one may see that quite through his discourse his chief aim was at stating the nature of idolatry according to the sense of the fathers . from justin martyr he shews that the question between the christians and heathens was not about one supreme god , which he acknowledges to be owned by them ; but whether divine worship ought in general to be given to any creature , and in particular to the heathen gods ? and he lays the force of the christian doctrine as to worship upon that peremptory declaration of the will of god ; thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve . the same he shews as to athenagoras , clemens alexandrinus , origen , cyril , and all the fathers who managed the dispute against the heathen idolatry . is it impertinent to the right stating the nature of idolatry , to consider whether they who charged the heathens with it , did at the same time confess they owned one supreme god ? doth not t. g. himself grant that it is very material towards the right understanding the nature of idolatry to consider what was the design of the fathers to charge them with idolatry in ? whether in worshipping the creature and not the creator with divine worship ; or in worshipping more gods than one properly so called ; ( which he seems to fix the heathen idolatry upon ) or in giving the same worship to god and his creatures ( which dr. st. asserts ) which notion soever of these be true , it cannot be said to be impertinent for dr. st. to prove his notion to be the sense of the fathers . and if the heathens did acknowledge one supreme god , as t. g. grants , and the fathers do allow this in their disputes of idolatry ; which t. g. cannot deny ; then the question comes to this , whether they charged them with idolatry only for neglecting to worship the supreme god which they owned ; or in holding one supreme and many supremes at the same time ? for if they believed one supreme god , as t.g. grants , and yet held many independent deities which they worshipped as such , they must hold one supreme and yet many ; for every independent deity must be supreme . i wonder therefore if t. g. designed to debate this matter fairly , why he should account the other questions impertinent ; and account that the only point in debate , whether according to the sense of the fathers jupiter was the supreme god ? r. p. do not you remember how dr. st. insulted over him as to the sense of the fathers in this matter ; and had he not reason then to speak to this point ? p. d. i allow him all the liberty he can desire , provided he do not reject the main evidence as to the cause of idolatry to be impertinent ; which he would cut off by this trick , that they do not refer to his question about jupiter . but since you have such a mind to tell me the sense of the fathers in this matter , let us hear and consider them in order . r. p. t. g. begins as dr. st. doth with justin martyr : and he shews from him that the devils appearing in humane shapes were the first beginners of idolatry , the people taking them for gods , and worshipped their images . p. d. this is no great discovery to dr. st. for he takes notice of this very opinion of justin martyr . r. p. but he makes jupiter to have been one of these devils in his first apology , where he saith , the poets and mythologists not knowing that the angels and daemons begotten by them had been the authors of the infamous practises he there speaks of , attributed them to god himself and to the sons begotten by him , and to those who are called his brethren , neptune and pluto . p. d. what follows from hence i beseech you ? r. p. that according to the sense of justin martyr , jupiter the supreme god was a devil . p. d. that should be better proved ; for how doth it follow from justins words ? that which justin saith is , that what he attributes to devils , the poets attribute to god himself and his sons : and what then ? it thence follows that justin thought they attributed very unworthy things to god , but not that he thought him to be a devil . for doth not the same author prove that their poets as well as philosophers did own one supreme god , and that homer calls him emphatically , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is the very expression justin useth in this place , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and by that he saith , is meant the truly existent deity , whom he calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . r. p. but justin saith , the devils were the causes of idolatry , and the poets say the true god was the cause , therefore according to justin martyr their true god was a devil . p. d. which is just like this kind of reasoning . the poets and mythologists of the roman church attribute the miracles wrought by images to the true god ; others say , they are wrought by the power of the devil ; therefore they make the papists god to be a devil . which is altogether as true reasoning as the former . for justin saith , he believes idolatry to have come from the devils , the poets they say it came from god : and although he quotes this opinion of theirs , it doth not follow that he thought their god to be a devil ; but that they attributed those things to god , which did come from the devil . so much for the first testimony , let us come to the next ; and if the rest prove like it , notwithstanding t. g.'s fluttering , all his fathers will be but a covie of one still . r. p. the next is , athenagoras , who first shews from what the poets and historians relate concerning the heathen gods , that there was nothing that might induce us to believe saturn , jupiter , proserpine and the rest of them to be gods , but rather that they were men , and by their actions devils : and then that jupiter according to the interpretation of the philosophers was no god. p. d. is not this , the same athenagoras who said , that the generality of mankind were agreed in this , whether they would or no , that there was but one god ? and who proves this from the testimony of the heathen poets and philosophers , and that with the very name of jupiter too ? 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . doth athenagoras yield this to be a good proof concerning one true god , and yet deny the true god to be meant by jupiter ? no ; but we must consider a threefold sense of jupiter among the fathers . ( . ) the original jupiter , the father of gods and men among the poets , the supreme mind and governour of the world among the philosophers ; the one god confessed by all mankind ; whom athenagoras mentions under that name , in the verses of euripides . and if athenagoras took this jupiter for a devil , he doth not prove any thing to his purpose from those testimonies of the poets and philosophers . for his design was to vindicate the christians in holding the vnity of the godhead , which i desire t. g. to observe ; you accuse us , saith athenagoras , because we reject your popular gods , and assert one god ; yet saith he , you condemn not your poets and philosophers who applyed themselves most to the consideration of things , and agree with us in the vnity of the godhead . what force were there in this argument ; if the god they owned were not the true god , but an arch-devil ? how could the christians plead the consent of the wiser heathens with them , if they owned a devil instead of the true god ? suppose any loyal subjects in the late times had been accused as enemies to the government , would it have passed for any vindication of them to have pleaded that they owned o. c. who was a single person , as well as our lawful king ? it is true , they both agreed in a single person , but the rights of those two single persons were so opposite to each other , that the same men could not be friends to both , or both be said to own the same monarchy . but when the christians pleaded the consent of the heathens , it was not meerly to purge themselves from atheism ; but to shew that the wisest heathens were of their mind ; as t. g. confesseth , the fathers appealed to the testimony of the consciences of men to this purpose , as giving evidence for christians , ( mark that ) what evidence was this for christians , unless it were not only for one god , but for the true god ? for they who did own one god , who was so far from being the true , that in the fathers judgement , he was the greatest enemy to him in the world , viz. an arch-devil ; these were far from giving testimony to the christians ; as who would say , that the indians who worship the devil do give testimony to the true god ? if therefore it was the arch-devil , as t. g. saith , whom the poets and philosophers according to the fathers , did give testimony to , instead of producing their evidence as they did on all occasions , they ought to have rejected it with scorn and indignation . for what consent could there be between god and the devil ? if the fathers thought they owned one supreme devil , and yet produced their testimonies to justifie their belief of one true god , it would have been just , as if the kings subjects should have said to o. c.'s friends ; why are you angry with us for not submitting to his government ; since d. and h. and p. and the rest , own a single person as well as we ? true , would they have said , but our difference is the more irreconcileable , for you are for one single person and we for another ; and their interests can never be united , there being a competition between them for the same power . thus when athenagoras and the rest of the fathers produce the testimonies of euripides , sophocles , plato , aristotle , &c. to shew their consent with the christians in the acknowledgement of one supreme god ; we will suppose the emperour antoninus to whom athenagoras addressed himself , to ask him this question , you produce their testimonies to prove their consent with you as to one supreme god ; do you mean the same god ; or an vsurper and an arch-devil ? if you think it was not the same , but his utter enemy , what madness is it to produce those who owned him whom you account the greatest usurper , to prove a consent with you , who pretend to discover his usurpation , and do cry out upon him as the greatest enemy to god and mankind ? if you think they meant the same god with you , who is the lord and governour of the world , we cannot deny the force of your allegations , and judge it unreasonable to condemn you for that doctrine , which the wisest among our selves did own . since therefore t. g. confesseth that the heathens did own one supreme god , and that under the name of jupiter , and that the fathers do produce many testimonies of theirs to that purpose : and that , as it appears , to shew their consent with christians as to the unity of the godhead , as athenagoras saith expresly ; what can follow more naturally from hence , than that the fathers did look upon that jupiter whom they owned to be the one supreme god , to be the same true god , whom the christians worshipped ? and when athenagoras produced the testimony of plato concerning the maker and father of the vniverse , he immediately adds , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 · · understanding thereby one unbegotten and eternal god. was this meant by athenagoras of the true god , or of the arch-devil ? and from hence he argues thus ; if plato's opinion were not impious or atheistical , neither is ours who hold the same god who made the world . what force is there in this arguing , if athenagoras did not look on plato's god and the christians to be the same ? and in another place speaking of plato's saying concerning jupiter , that he rides first in heaven upon his winged chariot , ordering and disposing all things ; and an army of gods and daemons follows him ; he subjoyns this caution , that this is not to be understood of jupiter the son of saturn ; but that this name belongs to the maker of all things . can there be a plainer testimony than this , that there was a more ancient and greater jupiter than the son of saturn , and he no less than the maker of the world ? when athenagoras himself makes this distinction , and owns that the name of jupiter belongs to the maker of all things , is it possible to think that by this jupiter , athenagoras did not mean the supreme god but an arch-devil ? but he goes on and saith , that plato added the word great to jupiter , on purpose to distinguish the celestial jupiter from the terrestrial , and him that was unbegotten , from him that was begotten ; and not only junior to the heaven and earth , but to the cretans who stole him away to prevent his being killed by his father . ( . ) the poetical jupiter . of him athenagoras speaks , when he joyns him with saturn and proserpina . where he mentions the poetical theology ; and he saith , that orpheus , homer , and hesrod were not much inferiour in age to the gods they describe , as to their genealogies , shapes , actions and passions ; which he shews at large to be unworthy of any who are called gods. towards the latter end of his apology , he gives the true account of these things , viz. that those whom they worshipped for gods had formerly been men of interest and power , and either through fear or flattery had divine worship given to them ; and particularly of jupiter , he proves from callimachus , that he was born in creet , although the poet will by no means allow that he died and had a sepulchre there . from hence he shews , that under the names of deified men the evil spirits did assume the divine worship which was given to themselves ; which he proves from the cruel and impure actions which they did put men upon . he shews , that the image of neryllinus who lived in their time did give answers to those who consulted it ; and so did that of proteus , or lucians peregrinus , who cast himself into the fire at olympia ; since therefore the images themselves could not do these things , nor those whose images they were , he concludes they were evil spirits who were busie about those images , and wrought upon the imaginations of those who came to consult them . and who denies that these were evil spirits which drew men to idolatry , and encouraged them in it , as athenagoras observes , who under the names of great men did assume divine worship to themselves ? and in this sense dr. st. never denied that jupiter of creet was a false god , and the devil under his name drew men to the practice of gross idolatry . ( . ) the allegorical jupiter . for athenagoras saith , that the poetical fables were so filthy and base , that the philosophers had no other way , but to turn them into allegories ; and to interpret them physically of the nature and mixture of the elements . and thus according to empedocles , jupiter was fire , juno earth , pluto air , nestis water . however , saith athenagoras , these are but elements , and parts of matter , and therefore cannot be gods , nor deserve divine worship . the stoicks made jupiter to be fire , juno air , neptune water . others made one part of air to be jupiter , and another juno : however they cooked and dressed their allegories , they were but pork still ; it could arise no higher than a worship of the elements instead of god. and now let any one judge how sufficiently t. g. hath proved from athenagoras , that the supreme god of the heathens was an arch-devil . i pray proceed to your next . r. p. theophilus antiochenus saith , that neither the mother of the gods , nor her children are gods , but idols , the works of mens hands , and most impure devils : which t.g. saith , was cited by him in the same page with origen before , although dr. st. makes so much sport with him about crying out the fathers , when he named , he saith , only origen . p. d. and was not this true ? doth t. g. name any more than origen to prove that jupiter according to the fathers was an arch-devil ? look the place and you will find it punctually true . i grant he mentions theophilus antio●hemis in the same page ; but to what purpose ? not to prove the supreme god an arch-devil ; but the inferiour deities to be inferiour devils : which was a thing never denyed by dr. st. and therefore this testimony signifies as little now , as it did before . r. p. but you will not so easily reconcile tertullians testimonies with dr. st. 's abominable pretence , as t. g. calls it , that the god of the romans was the true god. p. d. it is one thing to say , the god of the romans was the true god , and another to say , they did worship the true god under the title of jupiter o. m. for the former may imply that they had no other gods besides him to whom they gave divine worship ; which i dare say never came into dr. st.'s head . but all that he asserted was , that the romans did own and worship the supreme god under the titles of jupiter o. m. and gave such characters and descriptions of him as could agree to none but the lord and governour of the world : which he proved from many testimonies of cicero , seneca , and others the gravest of the roman writers . and what doth tertullian say to take off these testimonies ? r. p. first , he saith , we are not ignorant that those who act and are pleased and counterfeit a divinity under those names ( of dead men ) and consecrated statues , are wicked spirits , i. e. devils . p. d. and what then i beseech you ? was jupiter o. m. one of these dead men ? if not , to what purpose is this testimony brought ; unless it be as countrey people say , for want of a better ? r. p. not so , for he saith elsewhere , we worship one god whom ye all know by the light of nature : as for the rest whom you think to be gods , we know them to be devils . p. d. admirable ! who can stand before such demonstrations ? tertullian here grants they all knew the true god , therefore the supreme god of the romans was a devil . he might as well have brought another testimony out of the book de spectaculis ; no man can be ignorant of that which nature suggests , that god is the maker of the world. were the romans ignorant of that , which tertullian saith , no man could be ignorant of ? and when they made use of the most proper epithets of good and great to describe and worship him by ; is it probable they should not understand him ? or that tertullian should think their supreme god was an arch-devil ; when he saith in the words cited by t. g. he was the same god whom the christians worshipped ? doth t.g. consider what he writes ? when he puts down this for a testimony against dr. st. we worship one god whom ye all know by the light of nature . doth it not hence follow , that the god whom the gentiles knew , was the same whom the christians worshipped ? and he was not certainly an arch-devil . i pray judge , whose pretence is the more abominable upon his own testimonies . r. p. for all this , tertullian shews , that jupiter worshipped in the capitol was not the true god. for speaking of the supplications the heathens made there , he saith , they were averse both from god and heaven . p. d. and had he not great-reason to say so , when he saith , the romans with full bellies , and wallowing in all kind of luxury , did offer up their sacrifices to obtain rain , and thought to have it drop down from the capitol upon them , if the people went barefoot thither ? doth not god himself tell the jews they were far from him , when they seemed most to draw nigh unto him ? i. e. their sacrifices and oblations signified nothing , while they continued in their sins . i should not stick to say that intemperate and wicked men are averse both from god and heaven , though they walk barefoot and make the richest presents to the true god. but how doth this prove they did not intend to worship the true god there ? although withal their worship , even in the capitol , was idolatrous worship ; both as to the image of jupiter , and the conjunction of other gods with him ; therefore whatever their intention was as to the worship of jupiter o. m. their supplications might well be displeasing to the true god ; and on that account they might be said to be averse from god and heaven . r. p. i have another testimony of tertullian still good ; which if i mistake not will put you hard to it . it is in his apologetick . we are esteemed not to be romans but injurious to them , because we do not worship the god of the romans . 't is well , he is the god of all , whether we will or no. but among you it is lawful to worship any thing but the true god ; as if he were not the great god of all , whose no are all . what could be said more express to remove that abominable pretence of the doctors , that the god of the romans was the true god ? p. d. i see no reason in the world for your accounting the doctors pretence abominable , unless he justified the way of worship then used , which he confesseth to be abominable both in the old romans and others who too much imitate their idolatries . observe , that tertullian speaks of their worship , which being idolatrous , the christians had just reason to refuse joyning with the romans in it . from hence they were accused for worshipping another god from him whom the romans worshipped , and tertullian before mentions the several suspicions which they had concerning the god of the christians ; some said it was the head of an ass , some the cross , some the sun , and some set forth a ridiculous picture with the ears of an ass , a book and a gown , and called this the god of the christians . tertullian upon this declares that the christians worshipped the god that made the world and none else ; or as he said to scapula , the god whom all men know by nature . and in that very chapter from whence those words are cited , he saith , it was the common opinion among the romans , that there was one god higher and more powerful than all the rest , of perfect wisdom and majesty : for the greatest part , saith he , did make this scheme of divinity , that the chief power lay in one god , to whom the rest were only ministerial and subservient . i am afraid t. g. will allow my sense of these words no more than he is wont to do dr. st.'s . i will therefore give you tertullians own words . nam & sic plerique disponunt divinitatem , ut imperium summae dominationis esse penes unum , officia ejus penes multos velint . which words are of mighty weight and consequence in this matter , towards the right understanding tertullians meaning . here we see from whence aquinas had his plures eorum , and in what sense it must be understood . from hence it appears , that the generality of the heathens did not assert a multitude of independent gods : nor were charged with idolatry on that account . and to let us see whom they meant by this supreme god , he produces in the next words the place of plato mentioned by athenagoras of the great jupiter in heaven with his army of gods and demons . r. p. but tertullian saith , the christians did not worship the god of the romans ; and the romans would not suffer them to worship the true god : how could this be , if they did own and worship the true god ? p. d. i will tell you , the god of the romans was he who was worshipped after an idolatrous manner in the capitol and elsewhere : the christians chose rather to to dye than to worship god after this manner : the romans would permit no other kind of worship than their own : and when the christians refused to joyn in their worship , they could not believe , let them say what they would , that they worshipped that god whom all men know by the light nature . the god of the romans is the god worshipped after the roman manner ; as the god of the jews , of the turks , and of the christians is the god worshipped according to those several laws , although he be the same god in himself the maker and governour of the world. this place then doth imply no more , than that the roman religion as it stood at that time and the christian were inconsistent ; but it doth not follow from hence that the romans did not intend to worship the supreme god under the title of jupiter o. m. r. p. before we leave tertullian , i have something more to say to you concerning him : it is about a passage of his book ad scapulam cited by dr. st. where he endeavours to prove that the heathens jupiter was the supreme god , by a miracle wrought upon the heathens supplications to him under the name of jove . p. d. are you sure that dr. st. ever meant any such thing ? r. p. t. g. quotes his words , god , saith he , shewed himself to be the powerful god by what he did upon their supplications to him under the name of jove . p. d. but doth not dr. st. expresly say , that it was upon the prayers of christians , that miracle was wrought ? r. p. yes , t. g. takes notice of that , and from thence proves that he wilfully corrupted tertullians text , and makes a very tragical business of it . methinks i see the great dionysius with his birchen scepter walking round him , telling him of his faults , and then one or two lashes ; but lest his pain should be too soon at an end , he takes off his hand , and walks the other turn , with a stern and magisterial countenance bidding others beware , and telling them what an example he will make of him , he laies on again , with such a spring in his arm , and so many repeated strokes , that i even pity the poor doctor , and i could not think dionysius himself could have expressed more severity on such an occasion ; but i consider , it is against an heretick , and it is necessary sometimes to let you see how sharp we can be . p. d. you need not to tell us that ; but we had need to keep out of your lash as long as we can , for we expect no great kindness from you , if ever we fall under it . but why should t. g. think that dr. st. designed to corrupt tertullians sense in that place , when himself had before owned that the miracle was wrought by the prayers of the christians ? he would never have done this , if he intended the other . i do confess the words , as they lye , are capable of that construction t. g. puts upon them ; but in common ingenuity they ought to be understood according to his own former sense of them ; unless the force of the argument lay in the other sense ; which i do not perceive it doth . for dr. st. designed to prove in that place from tertullian , that the heathens did acknowledge one supreme god , from the testimony of their consciences , and lifting up their hands and eyes to heaven upon any great occasion : and then brings in those words before mentioned ; which are there produced for no other end , but to shew that the same powerful god was owned by the gentiles and christians in that famous miracle . he did not intend there to prove , as t. g. suggests , that jupiter whom they worshipped in the capitol was this one supreme being , from the testimony of tertullian and the miracle wrought by god himself upon the heathens supplications to him under the name of jove ; and where he did purposely set himself to prove this , he there confesses that the miracle was wrought at the prayers of the christians , and that the whole army made the exclamation , deo deorum & qui solus potens , whereby they did in jovis nomine deo nostro testimonium reddere , saith tertullian ; and dr. st. adds that the heathens did intend this honour to their own jove . from whence it appears that all the force of the argument from this testimony lies in this , that the heathens did confess there was one supreme and powerful god whom they called jove . and this i say in dr. st.'s name is the whole strength and force of his argument , and that he never thought of what t. g. imposes upon him , viz. that god wrought that miracle upon the supplications of the heathens to prove that jove was the true god : which was not necessary to his design . but i do insist upon it , as an invincible proof of that which he intended , the acknowledgement of one supreme god , whom they called jove . i do yield then , that the miracle was wrought by the prayers of the christians ; that the christians did not pray to god under the name of jove ; that the heathens did attribute the honour of the miracle to their jove ; that in the titles they gave to him on this occasion they did give testimony to the mighty power of that god whom the christians worshipped ; i will not deny , that m. aurelius did write a letter to the senate , wherein he acknowledged this miracle to be wrought by the christians , ( although it may be that was not the letter , which is extant in baronius ) but after all these concessions , i say , that dr. st.'s argument holds good , that the heathens did acknowledge one supreme god under the name of jove . for what could the army mean else , by that acclamation , deo deorum & qui solus potens ? from whence it unavoidably follows , that the heathen army did acknowledge one supreme and omnipotent god , whom they called jove : and in antoninus his column at rome , this god is described under the title of jupiter pluvius : therefore according to the sense of the heathen army , this jupiter was deus deorum , & solus potens . t. g. could not but see , that herein lay the strength of dr. st.'s argument ; but he dissembles it , and makes him to aim at what he never thought of , and catching hold of an ambiguous expression , he runs away with that , and uses him with more severity than ever dionysius turned pedant , or reforming stepmother used , which are his own expressions upon a far less occasion . r. p. but tertullian distinguishes the true god from him who was worshipped under the name of jove . p. d. i deny not , that tertullian doth distinguish the worship of the true god from the worship of jove . and when the heathens attributed such miracles to their jupiter , with a design thereby to justifie the heathen worship , the christians had great reason to stand upon this distinction ; and to complain that what the christians obtained by prayers and fasting , they attributed to their jupiter , i. e. what the christians hoped would convince them of their idolatry , they used for an argument to prove that god was not displeased with it . but it doth not follow , from any thing tertullian hath said , that he did not suppose the heathens did not intend to worship the true god under their jupiter , when he confesses the greatest part of them did suppose one supreme god , and that the christians worshipped the same god whom all men knew by the light of nature . r. p. what say you to clemens alexandrinus , who affirms the gods of the heathens to be devils ; and among the rest he reckons up jupiter himself ; so far was he from thinking jupiter to be the true god ? p. d. dr. st. had prevented this objection , by saying that in that place clemens speaks of the poetical theology , and of jupiter of creet ; but withall he shews not only that clemens doth acknowledge that all mankind had a natural knowledge of the true god , but that they meant him under the name of jupiter : and commends the manner of speaking concerning god as grave and decent , where the divine perfections are attributed to jupiter : he quotes a saying of xenocrates wherein he calls god 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the supreme jove , and some others of a like nature . which seem to be as plain evidences as dr. st. could desire . and what answer doth t. g. give to them ? r. p. he saith , it doth not follow from hence that it was the sense of clemens himself , that jupiter who was worshipped in the temples was that true god. and his meaning was not to assert jupiter to be that supreme being , but from the epithets and titles of omniscient , omnipotent , &c. which the poets and philosophers attributed unto god under the name of jupiter , to convince them , that there was but one supreme being , maker and governour of the world. p. d. his design then was to convince them of that , which he proves they all knew already . if they had such a knowledge of god , as t. g. grants that clemens doth prove from their testimonies , either it was the true god they knew , or a false god or an arch-devil . if the later , they do not reach to what he brings them for , which was to prove the inbred notion of one supreme disposer of things ; if the former , then all those titles and epithets did express the true god ; according to clemens his own sense of them . but doth t. g. think that they gave the titles and epithets of omnipotent , omniscient , &c. to the devil ? and that clemens believed it at the same time , when he proves from hence that all men have the natural knowledge of god ? if he can think so , he must make clemens a man of much reading , but of no judgement . but i pray reflect a little ; t. g. confesses that clemens saith , that those epithets were attributed to jupiter with a great deal of decency and gravity concerning god ; then according to t. g. the devil may very decently and gravely be said to be an omnipotent and omniscient devil . for i pray observe but this one passage and you will find what pitiful shifts t. g. is put to . the things which the poets attribute to jupiter in express terms clemens saith are spoken with great decorum of god : and at the same time he grants , that they meant god by their jupiter ; what then follows but that although they used the name jupiter , yet under that name they spake those thinks of god which were very agreeable to him . no , saith t. g. this is not his meaning , but that they spake those things concerning their jupiter , which being applied to the true god would be spoken with great gravity and decency . which in plain terms is , that they attributed the perfections of god to the arch-devil , which was very ill done of them one would think , and horrible blasphemy ; but however , saith t. g. these things may be said to be spoken with great gravity and decency concerning god , because if you take them from the devil and apply them to god , they are decent expressions . let us suppose james naylor riding through the streets of bristol assuming to himself the title of the son of god , and some of his followers crying hosanna to the son of david : would t. g. say this were spoken with decency a●d gravity ; because it would be so , if it were rightly applied to his son christ jesus ? t. g. doth not seem here to consider wherein the decency of speech lies ; for there is the greatest indecency , nay blasphemy in the misapplication of the best titles and most glorious attributes . and were there no other reason to convince me of the sense of the fathers in this matter , this alone were sufficient ; that if t. g.'s hypothesis were true , all those great things which the heathens spake of their jupiter were most abominable blasphemies ; for the divine perfections were attributed to the chief of devils . and if to attribute the miraculous works of god to the devil be the sin against the holy ghost ; what then is it to give to the devil all the perfections of god himself ? and yet , if t. g. say true , the fathers must believe that the most learned and wise of the heathens did so , when they spake of the wisdom , and power , and goodness of their supreme jupiter : and if they did believe they were guilty of such horrible blasphemy , would they so often quote , approve , extol these sayings as they do ? would they not rather have reproved , censured , condemned them for them , as the most intolerable reproaches of the divine nature ? would they have born such things in plato , euripides or any other philosopher or poet ? for to call a stone , a stock , a dead man , a god ; to attribute life , sense , understanding to meer matter ; were tolerable blasphemies in comparison with making the devil to be the supreme governour of the world ; to be one and all ; to be infinite wisdom as well as power ; and yet all these must be thus given to the devil by the wisest poets and philosophers which the heathens ever had . nay farther , their best and most understanding men who are most commended by the fathers themselves , must be the greatest blasphemers of all others , and be thought so by the fathers at the same time when they magnifie their sayings , for the wisdom , gravity , and decency contained in them . this is so gross , so wild , so absurd an imagination as could hardly enter into any mans head who had any manner of esteem for the fathers . and i would advise t. g. rather to let the fathers quite alone , than to fix such absurdities upon them . r. p. methinks you are grown very warm of a sudden ; but i have another father to cool you , and he is minucius felix . p. d. he is but a paterculus a very diminutive father , as t. g. speaks ; however i hope he is able to speak for himself . r. p. he saith , the impure spirits lurking in the consecrated statues gained to themselves the authority and esteem of a deity that was there present . p. d. and what then ? how often must you be told , that the question is not , whether the devils were not assisting in the practice of idolatry ? which dr. st. never questioned ; either by presence in consecrated images , or by assuming divine honours under the names of deified men ; but this doth not come up to the question in hand ; which is , whethers the fathers did not believe they did intend to worship the supreme god under the name and titles of jupiter o. m. ? i will make this plain to you , that if possible you may understand the difference of these questions . you know what boasts are made in your church of the miracles wrought by our lady of such and such a place , as of mointague , hall , loretto , &c. what do you mean by this , but that such images which are there of her did effect them , not by the power of the wood or stone , but of some spiritual power which was present in or about them ; suppose now a person who hath heard of the coming of satan with signs and lying wonders , should believe that the evil spirits did endeavour to retrieve idolatry in the christian world after the way by which they advanced it in the heathen world ; and so concludes that they work these pretended miracles , might not such a one say , that impure spirits lurk in your consecrated images , and there receive divine worship under the names of saints and angels ; and yet at the same time believe that you worship one supreme god ? r. p. but here the case is different ; for minucius saith , that saturn , and serapis , and jupiter ( mark that ) confess themselves to be devils . p. d. two wayes jupiter might be a devil , and yet not prejudice dr. st.'s assertion . ( . ) as he assumed the honours given to the poetical jupiter ; who was really a prince of creet ; but the poets by attributing to him the villanies of many others ( as to the ravishing of women , &c. ) had made him one of the greatest monsters of wickedness that ever was ; and therefore it was no wonder the devil should be worshipped under his name ; not intentionally but terminatively , in as much , as all this worship ended in the service of the devil , who was alwayes very active to subdue the minds of men to the folly and wickedness of idolatry . ( . ) as he was busie about consecrated images , even to the supreme jupiter . thus although the greeks and romans might set up images with scepters , and globes , and thunderbolts in their hands , on purpose to declare that they intended to worship the supreme god by them ; yet this way of worship being so disagreeable to the divine nature and perfections , god might justly suffer the impure spirits to be active in those very images , which were consecrated to himself : and they might by this means run away with that honour which they intended to give to the divine majesty . but the question still remains , whether notwithstanding all this , the heathens did not design to worship the supreme god under the name of jove ? and nothing of this nature doth shew that the fathers believed the contrary ; and as to minucius felix , dr. st. had produced a material passage out of him to prove , that they who make jove the chief god , are only deceived in the name , but agree in the power . r. p. i am glad you mention that place ; for t. g. hath at large proved that dr. st. hath corrupted both the sense and words of minucius to make him speak as he would have him . p. d. i am now so used to these false and shameless charges of t. g. about dr. st.'s corrupting of authors , that i dare stand the shock , let t. g. make use of all his strength and skill . r. p. t. g. saith , that minucius intended nothing less than to assert jupiter to be the one supreme god ; but that he argued only ad hominem ( as we say ) from what the wiser heathens pretended they thought of jupiter , that they ought to acknowledge but one supreme god , maker and governour of the world : and the design and sense of minucius was this , that although they were deceived in their pretence of assigning jupiter to be the supreme god ; yet by what they affirmed of him , viz. that he was the prince or the chief , and the poets setting forth one father of gods and men , they were sufficiently convinced , that they ought to acknowledge but one supreme and undivided power , by which the world was made and governed ; which was the point minucius was proving in that place . but the dr. by putting in and leaving out what he thought might make for his advantage , hath corrupted the very text of minucius , to make it speak his sense . p. d. a very heavy charge ! but what if there be no ground for all this ? is not t. g. a man of admirable dexterity , and unparallel'd ingenuity ? i will take t. g.'s own translation of the words ; and if from thence all that dr. st. saith , doth follow , there can be certainly no cause for all these clamours . those also , saith he , who will have jupiter to be the prince or chief , are deceived in the name , but agree as to the vnity of power . the matter lies within a narrow compass : either they who agreed as to the vnity of power and called that power by the name of jove did mean the same god with minucius , or not . if they meant the same god , dr. st. gives the true sense of minucius , for then they who make jove the chief god are only deceived in the name and agree in the power : ( and it is ridiculous pedantry to quarrel at his translating , qui jovem principem volunt , they who make jove the chief god : and for putting in only , it is no more than the sense implyes , for if they agree in the thing , they must be only deceived in the name . ) this is therefore the single point to be debated , whether according to minucius they understood the same god or not ? and to make this out i desire no other method than what t. g. proposes , viz. to consider the design of minucius in that place . providence being supposed , he saith , the question is whether the world be governed by one , or more , and after other arguments for monarchical government in general , he produces the consent of mankind in lifting up their hands to heaven , and calling upon god , and saying , god is great , god is true , and if god give . is this , saith he , the voice of nature in the common people , or the confession of a christian ? where nothing can be more evident , than the consent between the voice of nature , and the confession of a christian as to the same god. and then it immediately follows . et qui jovem principem volunt , falluntur in nomine , sed de unâ potestate consentiunt . these agree too as to the vnity of power , who would have jove to be chief . is there not all the reason that may be , to understand this agreement to be with those mentioned before ; viz. the common people and christians , who all consent in the vnity of power ; but these call that power by the name of jove ; and although minucius thinks they are deceived in attributing that name to god , yet he yields that they agreed in the thing . this is the plain and easie sense of minucius ; let us now consider t. g.'s sense of these words , and see how well that agrees with his design . his sense is this ; they who would have jupiter to be the prince or chief , were agreed as to the vnity of power , but were so much deceived , not only in the name , but in the thing it self , that they attributed this power , not to god but to the devil . for , saith t. g. minucius his own thoughts were , that this jupiter was a devil . let this be supposed , and his meaning is this , the common people call upon god , and say , god is true , god is great ; and therein agree with the confession of christians ; and they who will have jove , i. e. the devil to be the chief of gods , do agree as to the vnity of power . they who make god to be chief , and the devil to be chief , do both agree that one is chief i grant : but will any man of common sense say only that these are deceived in the name , who thinks at the same time , they mean the devil ? are they not deceived in much more than the name , in the very thing it self ? do they not set up an vsurper instead of god , and his most inveterate enemy , and attribute infinite and undivided power to him ? and is this dwindling expression fit for a christian , to say only , falluntur in nomine , they are deceived in the name ? no : but he ought to have told them , they were deceived much more in the thing than in the name . it was but a trifle in comparison what name they used , if their sense and meaning were good . call him jove or what they pleased , if they meant the same thing , it was only a difference about a name : but if they did really attribute the divine perfections to the devil , this was a crime of the highest nature , it was notorious blasphemy ; and no true christian could pass it over so gently and slightly , as minucius doth , if he were of t. g.'s opinion . but to convince us that he was far from it ; he afterwards produces the consent of philosophers with the christians , so he saith , ( in the same page of the leyden edition ) that they did consent with them : and surely it was no consent with christians to give the divine perfections to the devil . speaking of thales , he saith , vides philosophi principalis nobiscum penitus opinionem consonare . ( i forbear to translate lest t. g. should want matter to fill up some empty pages as he did by proving that volunt doth not signifie making , &c. ) however , minucius shews , that this prince of philosophers did fully agree with the christians . wherein i beseech you ? in attributing that power to the devil which they give to god ? this is an agreement which i dare say , no christian would ever own . and therefore it must be , in acknowledging the same divine being which the christians did . and after he hath reckoned up the several opinions of the most noted philosophers , he hath this remarkable expression ; exposui opiniones omnium fere philosophorum , quibus illustrior gloria est deum unum multis licet designasse nominibus : i have set down the opinions of almost all the famous philosophers , who all set forth one god though under many names : and lest any should fall into t. g.'s extravagant imagination , that this was not a consent in the same being , but as to a meer vnity of power , though lodged in the devil himself , he adds these words , vt quivis arbitretur , aut nunc christianos philosophos esse , aut philosophos fuisse jam tunc christianos . let t. g. construe this to his sense , if he can for his heart . would any man in the world , who believed the heathens supreme god to be the devil , have said , either that the christians now were philosophers , or the philosophers then were christians : i. e. that those who asserted that god , and those who said , the devil were supreme governour of the world , were of the same opinion . which is so foolish , so ridiculous an assertion , that i wonder to find t. g. resolve to maintain it . and i now desire you , or any man to judge whether the half dozen fathers t. g. hath produced before origen can amount to a covie of one. i have exercised great patience in examining these testimonies , and not after t. g.'s way turned off all the rest , because one was defective ; and if you have any more that speak to the point , i am content to give you all the satisfaction you can desire , provided they prove more than that in general , the gentiles sacrificed to devils , which was never denied . r. p. t. g. produces the testimonies of eusebius , athanasius , s. cyprian , s. chrysostom , s. hierom and others . p. d. to what purpose ? r. p. to prove that they were wicked spirits who delighted in their worship and sacrifices . p. d. who ever denyed this ? will t. g. quote the fathers from one end to the other to prove that all men are sinners ? name me those who seem to speak to the poin● , and i will answer them . r. p. you cannot deny that arnobius , lactantius , and s. augustin do speak to the point about jove being worshipped as the supreme god , will you hear them ? p. d. yes ; what have you to say more about them ? r. p. arnobius saith , that jupiter o. m. to whom the capitol was dedicated was not the true omnipotent god : and lactantius makes jupiter the king of those celestial gods , which the evil spirits feigned . p. d. are not these the two persons whom dr. st. goes about to excuse for applying the poetical fables to jupiter o. m. ? r. p. that is a fine way of defending the fathers , to take the parts of the heathens against them ; as dr. st. doth . p. d. he never doth it as to the main of the cause , as to any of them ( which were to take the part of idolatry against christianity ; which in my opinion , others are far more lyable to the guilt of than he ) nor doth he charge any of them with wholly mistaking the state of the question ; but he instanceth in two rhetoricians ( who must be excused in many other things , as it were easie to shew ) and he saith of them , that they could not forbear giving a cast of their former imployment in this matter . and when dr. st. saith , we ought not to charge the heathens with more than they were guilty of ; doth t. g. think we ought ? but i am of another opinion , though we should grant their supreme god to be a devil , for we ought to give the devil his due . r. p. but what say you to s. augustin whom dr. st. represents as the most baffled by the heathens in this point ? is not this kind of procedure more suitable to the design of julian , than of the reformation ? p. d. cannot a man write against your idolatry , but he must be another julian ? i. e. a man cannot write like a christian , but he must be an apostate . are you the only christians in the world ? and your peculiar doctrines the only christianity ? if it be , it is a christianity , which the christian church never knew in its best ages ; a christianity never taught by christ nor his apostles . but for s. augustin , i do not find that dr. st. thinks him in the least baffled in this matter ; but being a learned and ingenuous man , he saith , that he quitted the argument from the poetical fables concerning jupiter , and reduced the controversie to its true point , about the idolatry committed in the worship of inferiour deities . but what an itch of calumniating had seized t. g. when he could not hold from paralleling dr. st. with julian meerly for giving an account of the state of the controversie about idolatry , as it was managed by s. augustin ? r. p. this leads us into another weighty subject , viz. on what account the fathers charged the heathens with idolatry . p. d. i grant it is so , and tends very much to the right understanding the nature of it . and what account doth t. g. give of it ? r. p. i assure you t. g. shews himself to be a man very well versed in the fathers , and seems to have them at his fingers ends ; nay , he hath such great plenty of them , that they serve him not only for freight but for ballast too ; filling his margent as well as his book with them : and had he not studied brevity , he might have outdone the dr. himself in being voluminous . p. d. no doubt of it ; if he had a mind to produce all that the fathers say on the subject of heathen idolatry ; but let us pare off all impertinencies which tend only to amuse and confound a reader , and keep close to our subject . tell me on what account t. g. saith , the fathers did charge the heathens with idolatry . r. p. i suppose it may be reduced to these following . ( . ) in worshipping their images for gods. ( . ) in worshipping a multitude of false gods. ( . ) in worshipping the creatures and not the creator . and as to every one of these he shews how false dr. st.'s parallel is of the heathen idolatry and the worship practised and allowed in our church . p. d. i pray begin with the first of these ; and let us hear what account t. g. gives of the heathen idolatry in the worship of images . r. p. the images , he saith , were erected to the memory of dead men , whom the people out of flattery or affection had placed in heaven ; but evil spirits as it were incorporated themselves in those images ; and by working strange things about those who worshipt them , they gained the reputation of gods ; and consequently the images were held to be gods , and worshipped as such . p. d. i am far from being satisfied with this account of the heathen idolatry in the worship of images . for when a man pretends to give an account of a thing , there are three things he ought to regard ; first , that it be full ; secondly , that it be clear and distinct ; thirdly , that it be general . but i shall shew you , that this account fails in all those particulars , and withall that it doth not clear the image worship of the roman church . ( . ) that it is not full , because it supposes all their idolatry as to images to lye in taking the images of deified men for gods on the account of the presence of evil spirits in them . but i find another reason alledged out of the fathers against the worship of images by dr. st. which t. g. takes no notice at all of ; viz. that image worship was very unsuitable to the divine nature , as well as repugnant to the will of god ; and although the latter reason may seem to hold only for those who received the scriptures , yet the former doth extend to all mankind . for he shews from the fathers , that zeno the stoick , antisthenes , xenophon , numa and others condemned the worship of images on this account , because they were a disparagement of the divine nature . and for this , he produces the testimonies of clemens alexandrinus , justin martyr , athenagoras , origen , lactantius and many others . is this account true , or false ? if false , why is it not proved to be so ? if true , why is it not allowed ? is this fair or honest dealing , in pretending to answer , and not taking notice of the main objections ; or to give account of the fathers opinions of this matter , and to say not one word to all this ? but it is one thing to write an answer to a book , and another to write a book which must pass for an answer . ( . ) this account is not clear and distinct . for it doth not express whether it were idolatry or not , to worship images , where there was no incorporation supposed of evil spirits , nor doth it shew how it could be idolatry on that supposition . i do not deny , that there was such an opinion among the heathens , that spirits might possess images , and be incorporated with them ; but i say this was a particular opinion , and not the general belief . for hermes , from whom s. augustin gives the most exact account of this hypothesis ( from the asclepian dialogue ) looks upon it as a divine and peculiar art of drawing invisible spirits into images in such a manner as to animate them ; and thereby making gods. which , he saith , is the most wonderful of all wonders , that it should be in mens power to make gods. not by producing the divine being ; but by so uniting it to the image , as to make that a fit object for divine worship . but you of the church of rome pretend to do as much as this comes to with five words ; and somewhat more , for you pretend to annihilate a substance which they did not : but as to the main wonder , yours is of the same nature , viz. so to unite the divinity to the species of bread and wine , as to make them together a fit object for divine worship . and therefore t. g. doth not at all clear the nature of idolatry , as to images , by such an hypothesis which doth justifie the worship of images upon his own grounds . for this principle being supposed , that god was really incorporated in the image , it was as lawful for them to worship that image , as for you to worship the host. if you say , those were evil spirits , and not the true god , that doth not clear the matter . for we are not now disputing whether they were good or bad spirits which were in those images ; but on what account they were charged with idolatry in the worship of images . if it were for worshipping their images as gods on the account of one of their gods being incorporated in the image , this i say , is no account at all on t. g.'s principles : for then such an image was as fit an object of worship , on their supposition , as the adoration of the host is on yours . so that this is rather a clearing the worship of images from the charge of idolatry among the heathens , than giving any account of it : all the idolatry in this case lying in the worship of evil spirits , and not in the worship of images . ( . ) this account is not general as to the heathens . for many and those the most learned among them declared , that they did not take their images for gods ; as dr. st. proved in his first book , not barely from the testimonies of the heathens , but from the fathers too ; which passages he repeated and urged against t. g. in his defence . and among others he produced the testimony of eusebius speaking of the heathens in general , who saith , they did not look on their images as gods ; and of him , t. g. saith , that no man understood the heathens principles better . and yet after all this , t. g. hopes to have it pass for a good account of the heathens idolatry as to images , that they took their images for gods. ( . ) this account doth not clear the practice of your church in the worship of images . r. p. there i am sure you are mistaken . for do we take our images for gods ? and t. g. well observes , that when the fathers spake against the worship of images , from their vileness and impotency ; they did not found their arguments meerly on the matter of the images , and the art of the artificers , but upon these two conditions conjoyntly taken , viz. that they were held to be gods and yet were made of such materials ; whereas we do not believe our images to be gods , nor worship them as such , as the heathens did . for the council of trent declares that it believes no divinity in them , for which they ought to be worshipped . p. d. this is the utmost which can be said in your defence ; and to shew you how far this is from clearing your worship of images , i shall consider , ( . ) the force of the fathers arguments . ( . ) the difference of the heathens opinions from yours as to the divinity of images . and if their arguments be such as equally hold against your practises ; and your answers do not really differ from theirs ; then the parallel will hold good between your idolatry and theirs in this particular . . for the force of the fathers arguments ; the thing to be considered is , whether they held only in conjunction with believing their images to be gods. what connexion was there between this hypothesis , and the disparagement which images did imply to the divine nature ? for this was wholly on the account of representation ; ( and this is the great argument the fathers insist upon . ) the infinite distance between god and the work of mens hands ; the disproportion that dull and senseless matter , however carved and adorned doth bear to a divine majesty : that no image of god ought to be worshipped ; but what is what he is ; i. e. his eternal son ; the light of nature teaching men that it was greater purity of worship , greater reverence to the deity , less danger of errour to mankind to worship god without an image ; are all arguments used and pressed by the fathers against the worship of images ; which have their full strength and force supposing nothing were intended beyond bare representation . what think you of the christian church condemning the carpocratians for worshipping an image of christ ? did they believe christ incorporated in that image too ? or did epiphanius believe him to be so in the image on the veil , or the council of elvira in the pictures upon walls ? by all which we see what numbers of arguments the fathers used against the worship of images , which have no relation at all to the believing their images to be gods. besides , several other arguments they used which would lose their force upon this supposition ; as those taken from the meanness of subjecting our selves to vile and senseless images ; and all the enforcements drawn from the matter and form of them ; which would have no great strength if this had been the general belief of the heathens , that the god whom they worshipped was incorporated in the image : and therefore why might not he be worshipped thereby , as well as god incarnate in humane nature , notwithstanding all the vileness and contemptibleness of our flesh ? . as to the difference between them and you about the divinity of images , i do grant , that your church doth in terms declare against it . and so in probability would a council of the wiser heathens have done ; as appears by the testimonies of celsus , julian , maximus tyrius and many others . but when men attribute such divine effects , as miraculous cures to images , what can they believe but there is some divinity either in or about them ? and when this is assigned as the reason of the worship of such an image , as at loretto , or mointague , or elsewhere ; and of the mighty resort thither on that account ; what is this but to believe such divinity to be in or about them ? which doth inhance the peoples devotion to them . and this was the general perswasion of the heathens ; not , that there was an hypostatical union between the deity and the image by incorporation : but that there was a vertual and powerful presence of the deity in and about the image by reason of its dedication . and upon this account of a more peculiar presence of the deity after consecration , and because divine worship was given to them , it was that the heathen images were called gods. according to minucius his account of the image-god ; quando igitur hic nascitur ? ecce funditur , fabricatur , scalpitur ; nondum deus est : ecce plumbatur , construitur , erigitur ; nec adhuc deus est : ecce ornatur , consecratur , oratur ; tunc postremo deus est , cum homo illum voluit & dedicavit . from which it appears , it was solemn dedication and divine worship which made the heathen images to be looked on as gods. and on these accounts the scripture as well as fathers call the heathen idols by the name of gods , in the places produced by t. g. as , when they are said to be molten gods , lev. . . and the gods of the nations are idols , isa. . , , &c. where st. hierom observes , that the residue thereof is made a god , when the maker worships what he has made ; and begs for help from the work of his own hands . and in this sense i grant the heathens did make their images gods ; and so do all those who give divine worship to them . r. p. but dr. st. seems to say , that there never were any such fools in the world who worshipped their images as gods : which t. g. proves abundantly from plain and express words of scripture . p. d. by the very same i have mentioned already : and which in the former sense dr. st. never denied . all that he saith , is this , as though there ever had been such fools in the world , to say there was no other god besides their images : and as i remember he quotes maimonides , saying there were none such . but if t. g. can find out such fools in the world , by my consent , he shall have the begging of them . r. p. t. g. grants there were some of the wiser heathens , who did not worship their images as gods , but the deities represented by them : against these the fathers prove at large , that they were but men whom they commonly worshipped , and some of the worst of men . p. d. wherein did the nature of this idolatry lye ? in worshipping bad men instead of good ? or in giving divine worship to any men ? r. p. you are so troublesome , that you will not let a man shew his skill in the fathers , but you interrupt him with such idle questions . p. d. i have a mind to bring you to our business ; for nothing is more easie than to tell long stories of the heathen idolatries out of the fathers . i must press you again to tell me , wherein the nature of this idolatry consisted . r. p. i shall desire you as you are a lover of truth , to answer me ingenuously but this one question , which i take to be very material towards the true understanding the nature of idolatry , viz. whether you do not think that the heathens , at least the generality of them did not acknowledge and worship more gods than one ? p. d. i will answer you as freely as you can desire , provided you answer me another question which i take to be as material , viz. whether the generality of the heathens did not worship deified men ? r. p. what need you ask that , when i have told you already ? t. g. takes a great deal of pains to prove it from many testimonies of the fathers : as i was about to have shewed when you interrupted me ; because the places of their birth were known and their sepulchres extant , &c. p. d. i pray remember this ; and now ask what questions you please . r. p. i see you have no mind to answer : but t. g. proves that the generality of the heathens did believe them , whom they publickly worshipped , to be truly and properly gods , and not only in name , or by way of participation . p. d. but have you forgotten already , what you so lately told me , that t. g. proved that the generality of the heathens did worship deified-men ? and that these were their gods ; viz. jupiter , saturn , juno , aesculapius , &c. i pray consider , were these their gods or not ? r. p. doubtless they were ; for t.g. hath plainly demonstrated it from the fathers . p. d. and were those who were only deified-men , truly and properly gods and not by way of participation ? r. p. i confess you stagger me , surely t. g. did not lay these two assertions together , that the heathen gods were originally men , and yet were truly and properly gods ; but he proves this later assertion , that i am sure of . p. d. so you were but just now of the former ; however these contradict each other , let us hear his proofs of this later , which is not so true as the former . r. p. first , the whole christian world till dr. st. did ever condemn the heathens of polytheism . p. d. and so doth he too . only he doth not believe deified-men to be independent deities . they were gods as they gave them not barely the name and title of gods ; but as they supposed them to be admitted into some share in administring the affairs of the world ; and had therefore divine worship given unto them . r. p. secondly , the heathens accused the christians of atheism , because they denied them to be gods who were publickly worshipped . p. d. the heathens did not believe there was any such god who disallowed the worship of any other gods besides him ; and therefore when they found the christians utterly reject their worship , they charged them with atheism . but is not this an admirable way of reasoning , from the heathens objections against the christians ? might he not prove as well that the christians god had asses ears , that they eat children , that they had promiscuous conjunctions , &c. for all these were objected by the heathens , as well as atheism ? and athenagoras whom t. g. cites , shews what kind of gods those were , whom the christians rejected , in the very beginning of his apology , such as hector , helena , agamemnon , ericttheus , &c. and because the christians rejected such deities they were accused of atheism ; but doth this prove hector , and agamemnon to have been original and independent gods ? r. p. thirdly , they persecuted the christians to death , and they willingly suffered it , for maintaining there was but one only true god , who deserved divine honour to be given to him . p. d. very true . because they thought it unlawful to give divine worship to any creature whatsoever . but did not the heathens require divine worship to be given to deified-men ? r. p. fourthly , they erected temples , instituted priests , and appointed sacrifices to be offered to them . p. d. that is , they gave them divine worship , and what then ? they did so to deified-men , saith t. g. r. p. fifthly , the fathers bring infinite arguments to prove that those whom the heathens called gods , were not really and truly gods ; which had been a superfluous labour , if the heathens had not believed as well as called them gods. p. d. and did not the same fathers bring infinite arguments to prove that these gods were but men ? their design was to shew that nothing but what was truly and essentially god , could deserve divine worship ; which their vulgar gods were so far from being , that they were meer men , and some of the worst too . r. p. sixthly , many of those who wrote against the heathens had been such themselves ; and therefore would not charge them with more than they were guilty of in this matter . p. d. those were the very men t. g. cited to prove their gods had been men , and had fathers and mothers , and vncles and aunts as other mortals have . r. p. seventhly , the devils perswaded most of the heathens that they were gods , as st. augustin saith , by their fallacious signs and predictions . p. d. st. augustin speaks of their dominion over mankind by reason of idolatry ; which might have been , although the heathens had only worshipped deified men ; but i grant , that the heathens did give divine worship to daemons too ; whom some believed to be intercessors between the gods and men ; carrying up our prayers to them , and bringing down their help to us : as he there expresseth it ; and others thought them to be gods , i. e. a superiour kind of spirits ; however all agreed in giving divine honour to them . but those who believed them to be gods , i. e. of a higher rank than the subservient damons , did not suppose them to be self-existent and independent deities , but to have received their being by participation from god ; and supposing them good , st. augustin thinks their notion of them not much different from what christians have of angels : and that it was a controversie about a name , whether they be called gods or not ; but he is far from thinking it so , whether divine worship were to be given to them ? for this he utterly denies , it being inconsistent with the christian religion , as he proves in the beginning of his tenth book . from whence it appears , that the controversie was not about the name of gods ; but about giving divine worship to any creature . for st. augustin would allow them to call them gods , if they reserved divine worship as peculiar to god ; but if they did give this to them , it was no excuse to call them angels , or inferiour gods ; as the platonists did . and when he saith , the devils had perswaded the greatest part of mankind by their lying wonders that they were gods : his meaning is no more than that they were good spirits ; which he saith , apuleius and others observing them more narrowly found they were not , but a sort of malicious and deceitful beings ; notwithstanding which , he saith , these agreed with the rest in giving divine worship to them . so that whatever men do give divine worship to , that they do make a god of , whatsoever notion they have of its original , and receiving being from another . r. p. eighthly , the wisest of the heathens not only concurred with the vulgar in the external practice of worshipping many gods , but looked on it as a point of state-policy , not to let the people know that they were no gods whom they worshipped . p. d. and what then i beseech you ? they were rather willing to maintain idolatry , than to hazard the disturbance of government ; therefore the gods whom they worshipped were truely and properly gods. all that follows from hence is , that there were many follies and superstitions among the people , which they thought better to let them alone in , than to run the hazard of all by a change ; that the poets , and painters , and statuaries had tainted the religion of the vulgar with false and unworthy notions of their gods ; and would in spite of laws represent their gods in the publick sports doing things unsitting for men to do or see ; that although they thought it were much better to have these things redressed , yet they had so much greater regard to the safety of the government than to the honour of religion , that they chose rather to let things stand as they found them ; and to joyn with the people in the same acts of publick worship , retaining their opinions to themselves . but we shall have occasion to discourse of these wiser men afterwards . r. p. i have one thing yet more to say , which i am sure ought and will weigh with you more than all the rest . p. d. so it will , if it weighs any thing at all . r. p. it is , that god himself forbids the jews to have any other gods besides him : and yet he doth not forbid the name of gods to be given both to angels and men. p. d. is this the weighty observation ? the bit reserved to close up the stomach with ? god doth allow i grant the name of gods to be given to creatures ; but where doth he allow divine worship internal or external to be given to any other being besides himself ? whether angels , or stars , or elements , or whatsoever creature it be , to give that worship to it , which is due only to god , is to make other gods besides him , and this i thought had been agreed on all sides . r. p. if they give divine worship to any one of these as an absolute deity , as t. g. well observes ; and not if they refer the worship they give to them to the true god. p. d. what means the giving divine worship as to an absolute deity ? is it to suppose that which they worship to be truly and properly god , as t. g. saith ? that is to suppose it , not to be a creature . and upon this ground those who supposed the spirits , or stars , or elements to be creatures could not be guilty of idolatry in the worship of them : and so the greatest part of the heathen world will be excused from it . or is it to give divine worship to the creatures without any respect to god the maker of the world and of all things in it ? but then either they did at that time believe him to be the maker of those beings , or they did not : if they did , either they worshipped them as created , or as uncreated beings ; if as created beings , how could they wholly pass by the creator ? if as uncreated , how could they at the same time believe them to be created by him ? r. p. t. g. was aware of this , for he puts the question concerning the heathens , how those who acknowledged one supreme being , could think any others to be truely and properly gods besides him ? and he resolves it thus , that the generality of the heathens had no clear and distinct notion of one supreme being ; but only the wiser philosophers . p. d. by this answer , none but the dull and stupid vulgar could be guilty of idolatry , such who believed ( if any did ) there were no other gods besides their images ; or if there were , they never considered more , than that they were all called gods alike , and they knew no distinction between one chief and the rest : but if they happened to suppose one supreme and the others made by him , as i have shewed from tertullian they generally did , then they are free from idolatry in all acts of worship performed with that opinion . for if idolatry doth suppose a belief of more gods than one truly and properly so called , then all those who did own and acknowledge one first cause from whence all other beings were derived , could not be guilty of it , and consequently all those who had the true knowledge of god could not commit idolatry : because they could not at the same time believe but one true god , and many true gods. and if the true notion of idolary doth consist in believing and worshipping many gods truely and properly so called ; then let us see how many of the heathens will stand clear from the guilt of it . ( . ) all those who worshipped deified men and believed them to be such , although they gave them the worship proper to true gods. for as long as they did not think them to be such , it could not be real idolatry : and so cicero , varro and seneca , and the rest of the wise statesmen will be excused . ( . ) all those who believed inferiour gods having their first being from one supreme ; as the ancient poets , platonists and many others . ( . ) all those who worshipped the parts of the world with respect to one god , as the stoicks and others . ( . ) all those who opposed christianity upon this ground , that although there were but one supreme god , yet others might receive divine worship together with him ; and upon this principle the most bitter enemies of christianity disputed , viz. celsus , porphyrius , hierocles , julian , maximus , symmachus and others . and to own it not to be idolatry to give divine worship to created beings supposing them not to be owned to be truely and properly gods , is in plain terms to give up the cause of christianity against heathen idolatry . and this i insist upon as the main argument in this matter : and desire you or t. g. or any one else to answer it . dr. st. hath made it evident from the testimonies of celsus , julian and the modern platonists , that the dispute about idolatry , between them and the christians was not , whether there were only one god truely and properly so called , and others only by participation from him ; for this they yielded : but the question was , whether upon that supposition that they were inferiour and subservient gods , they might not have divine worship given to them in a degree suitable to their excellencies ? and upon this point the hinge of the controversie turned . either the christians were right in condemning such worship for idolatry , or not ? if not , the cause of christianity is given up to celsus and julian ; if they were in the right , then idolatry doth not lie in believing and worshipping many gods properly and truely so called ; but in giving divine worship to any creature whatsoever . and why did not t. g. answer to this , which was the most material point of all others ? but run out into long discourses of the ignorance of the vulgar heathen ( which no man doubts any more than the ignorance of vulgar papists ; although i hope not to the same degree ) concerning the true god. and yet we could tell him of another sort of statesmen , who love to keep the people in ignorance , lest they should by the help of the scriptures see too far into these matters . and some of your own church have told us that they could find no difference between the common peoples opinion of saints , and what the heathens had of their gods. and thus the parallel holds good still . but the common people though more gross in their apprehensions and do commit greater follies in their practices , may yet be safer in their ignorance , than those who ought to inform them better . but when we enquire what is lawful , we must not run to the practices or opinions of the vulgar , as t. g. doth here ; but to the state of the case as it was managed by those who best understood it . and they did not put it upon that issue whether it were lawful to worship many independent deities ; but whether it were lawful to give divine worship to any created beings , on the account of that power and authority which god had put into their hands ? and if this were not idolatry , celsus and julian thought heathenism justified , and the doctrine of christianity overthrown ; and so did origen , s. cyril , and s. augustin too . ( . ) the modern idolaters will be excused too , if the nature of idolatry doth consist in a multitude of independent deities , or of gods truely and properly so called . for dr. st. hath proved abundantly , that the eastern , western , southern and northern nations , which are , or have been charged with idolatry by the roman church , do own one supreme god , and others as inferiour deities . and this he chiefly proves from the testimonies of those of the roman church who have been sent as missioners to convert them from their idolatry . and what saith t. g. to that ? r. p. truely he had forgotten to speak to it , but a friend of his putting him in mind of it , he hath added something by way of appendix about it ; to shew how unnecessary it was to speak to it . p. d. all in good time : but it was well the printer informed him of two or three vacant leaves too , or else we might have wanted those rare observations . but why so unnecessary to answer an argument of that consequence ? which to my apprehension hath effectually overthrown this hypothesis of t. g. that idolatry lies in the esteem and worship of many gods truely and properly so called ; for if that were the general supposition that idolaters went upon , that there was one supreme and many inferiour deities , as dr. st. hath proved of the * arabians , † persians , * brachmans ( who are shewed to have no other † esteem of the inferiour deities than you have of your saints , and that they give only a relative worship to them , and to their images ) and of the very * tartars and † west-indians , and * northern idolaters ; how then can t. g. hope to make it appear to any man of common sense that the nature of idolatry lies in the worshipping many independent gods ? if t. g. were sent upon a mission to them , i would fain know by what arguments he could convince any of these of idolatry ? t. g. charges them with idolatry for worshipping many gods truely and properly so called ; they deny it , and say they worship only one supreme and others in subordination to him , what hath t. g. further to say ? will he tell them , he knows better what they do , than they do themselves ? i say therefore it is impossible upon t. g.'s principles to convince these heathens of idolatry . but there is another thing , i think , very material in this discourse concerning the modern idolaters ; which is , t. g. insinuates , that although some few of the wiser sort of heathens might understand the difference between the supreme god and inferiour deities , yet the generality of the people did not ; and so might easily worship many gods properly and truly so called : whereas by this discourse it appears that the difference between the supreme and inferiour deities was a thing known and received among the most rude and barbarous nations . and it is no great civility towards the greeks and romans to imagine them to be more sottish idolaters than the tartars and west-indians . i will confess freely to you , that i think there was not a more absurd and impious scheme of divinity extant in the most barbarous parts of the world , that are come to our knowledge , than the poetical theology of the greeks and romans , if it be understood literally ; and therefore the common people who had the poets in mighty esteem , lay under great disadvantages ; but yet , the poetical fables being rejected by their laws as well as by their wise men , and the poets themselves confessing one supreme god , but above all , the natural sense of conscience , did keep up the notion of one god among the people , who was lord over all , insomuch that upon any solemn occasions they made their appeal to him , as the fathers observe . lactantius saith , not only the wise , but all sorts of people confessed the unity of god ; even those who seemed to assert the multiplicity of gods truely and properly so called ; for these are his words , quod quia intelligunt isti assertores deorum ; ita eos praeesse singulis rebus ac partibus dicunt , ut tantum unus sit rector eximius . jam ergo caeteri non dij erunt , sed satellites ac ministri ; quos ille unus maximus , & potens omnium officiis his praefecit , ut ipsi ejus imperio ac nutibus serviant . let t. g. construe this to the confusion of his hypothesis , that the heathen idolatry lay in the worship of many gods truely and properly so called : when even lactantius saith the contrary so expresly : those cannot be gods truely and properly so called who are under the command of another ; and this is lactantius his own argument , ergo dij non sunt quos parere uni maximo deo necessitas cogit . and this truth , he saith , of the vnity of god is so plain , that no man can be so blind not to discover so clear a light . seneca in his exhortations quoted by lactantius , calls the inferiour gods , the servants to the supreme ; ministros regni sui deos genuit : and the difference between them and the holy angels he places in this , that these would not be called gods , nor be worshipped as gods : the former we see s. augustin makes nothing of , so that the true ground why the heathens attributed divinity to them , was because they gave to them divine worship which the christians utterly refused . the same lactantius saith , in general of the romans , that in any great distress they made their application to the supreme god , and prayed to him , and expected help from him , and begg'd relief from others per ejus divinum atque unicum numen ; and these beggars surely were some of the common sort of people ; from whence it follows that the generality of the heathen even among the romans did not esteem and worship many gods properly so called . r. p. but methinks , you seem to have forgotten t. g. 's appendix about the - modern idolatry , as well as he had to write about it , till he was put in mind by a friend . p. d. i am not very apt to believe t. g. could forget so material a part of the doctours book : but there was some other reason , for passing it over ; which it is not hard to conjecture . but i thank you for putting me to ask you , why he thought it so unnecessary to speak to it . r. p. first , because the doctour reduces their worship to one of these two principles , either that god hath committed the government of the world to inferiour deities ; or that god is the soul of the world : now t. g. having proved that those who do hold the latter principle are guilty of idolatry ; and those who hold the former , of the exteriour profession of it in concurring with the vulgar in the external practice of their idolatry , it would have been but actum agere to repeat the same things over again . p. d. this is scarce a tolerable shift . for the great force of that discourse , lay in two things ; ( . ) the almost universal consent of idolaters that there was one supreme god , against t. g.'s hypothesis of many gods truly and properly so called . ( . ) that all these were charged with idolatry by the roman church : and therefore according to the sense of that , idolatry could not lye in worshipping many independent and absolute deities . but the prettiest shift , is , that he had condemned the platonists for the exteriour practice of idolatry in concurring with the vulgar , and therefore he need not speak to whole nations who agreed in that principle of worship , and yet are charged with idolatry . if i were given to quoting ends of verses i would cry , risum teneatis amici . r. p. secondly , the force of the parallel lies in citations . p. d and what then ? ought he not to examine and disprove them ? r. p. no such matter : he hath found out a far better away than that ; he proves that dr. st. hath forfeited all right of being believed in things of that kind . p. d. commend me to t. g. for shifting . this is really the notablest trick i ever met with . he finds abundance of authors quoted both new and old , to prove something he doth not like . what should he do ? must he search and examine them , one by one ? no , that is intolerable ; and how if they prove true ? therefore the only way is to say , he hath lost all credit in his citations . which is as much as to say , he deserves to stand in the pillory for suborning witnesses , and why should he be credited in any thing he saith ? but this is a very high accusation , and t. g. in common justice is bound to prove it , or else he deserves the same infamy himself . r. p. yes , he proves it , by his notorious misrepresenting and corrupting the fathers . p. d. i think i have sufficiently cleared the doctours integrity and faithfulness therein ; but i am sure you cannot so well clear t. g. from bearing false witness against his brother . r. p. but he gives one instance in this case , viz. a testimony of trigautius wherein he translates , certum triadis modum inducit quo tres deos in unum deinde numen coalescere fabulatur . they worship the trinity after a certain manner , with an image having three heads and one body . t. g. saith , an ordinary reader will here find neither head nor foot. p. d. that is very strange , when there are three . but must t. g.'s quibble destroy all dr. st.'s credit ? any one that reads trigautius will find he exactly expressed his sense ; but our dionysius will make him construe word for word , or else he must be set in the pillory , for suborning testimonies . methinks this savours a little too much of dionysius indeed . r. p. but he charges him more with another testimony of trigautius , where he leaves out the emphatical words which shew the difference between the worship which the chineses give to confutius and to the tutelar spirits . for first , he omits the ceremony of the magistrates taking the oath before the tutelar spirits ; then he leaves out what trigautius affirms , that the worship was not the same . ( . ) he omits nam and divinam , which shew the reason of the difference to be the divine power which they believed to be in the tutelar spirits . p. d. and what if t. g. be mistaken as to every one of these ? shall we not applaud him for a man of wonderful integrity , and most commendable ingenuity ? ( . ) dr. st. doth not omit the ceremony of the magistrates taking their oath to or before these tutelar spirits ; for he saith expresly , that the mandarines are to swear in the temple of the tutelar spirit when they enter into their office ; and he particularly insists upon it , as one of the instances of the allowances the jesuites gave to their converts to go and perform all external acts of adoration in the temple of the tutelar spirits , provided they directed all those acts to a crucifix which they held in their hands or conveyed secretly among the flowers of the altar . ( . ) he distinguishes the worship of confutius from that of the tutelar spirits . for , he saith , in that very place , that they make no prayers to him , neither seek , nor hope for any thing from him ; but that they acknowledge the tutelar spirits to have power to reward and punish . is not this enough to shew the difference of their worship to any men of common sense ? ( . ) is not a power to reward and punish in the tutelar spirits set down by dr. st. out of trigautius ? and to what end should he then leave out nam and divinam , but that he thought them needless when the sense was expressed ? but the birchen scepter would be of little use , unless dionysius shewed his authority upon such occasions . judge you now whether upon the account of such pitiful cavils , dr. st. hath forfeited his right of being believed in his citations ? r. p. t. g. gives a third reason , viz. because it appears from his own citations , that these modern idolaters either worshipped a false god for the true one ; or false gods together with the true one , if they worshipped him at all . p. d. this can be no reason at all ▪ for dr. st.'s design was to shew that inferiour deities were false gods : and that it was idolatry to give divine worship to creatures , although men did acknowledge one supreme god. but unless t. g. can prove these false gods to have been gods truly and properly so called , i. e. absolute and independent deities , his hypothesis is utterly overthrown by this discourse of dr. st. which was the true reason he had no mind to meddle with it . r. p. lastly , it is not credible , he saith , that the cardinals de propaganda fide , with the full consent of the pope should make such decrees about idolatrous acts , as should condemn the giving external acts of worship to saints and images as idolatrous . p. d. dr. st. punctually produced the resolution made by the cardinals about the worship of confutius and the performance of external acts of idolatry in the temple of the tutelar spirits by the jesuits converts in china . he names the date , the place of printing it , and saith the copy he had seen was attested by a publick notary ; nay , he directs t. g. where he might see not only the decree but an explication of it . and after all , is not this credible ? r. p. dr. st. sets down the resolutions and doth not let us know what the quaeres were . p. d. he thought those might be easily understood by the case ; viz. about performing the same external acts of worship , with idolaters , but with a different intention ; i. e. the mandarins were permitted by the jesuites to go into the temple of tutelar spirits , and to use all the external acts of adoration which others used , provided they directed them to the crucifix and not to the idol ; which the cardinals declare to be utterly unlawful notwithstanding this intention . from whence dr. st. observed , ( . ) that they called the worship of the tutelar spirits idolatry , although they looked on them only as inferiour deities , and consequently idolatry doth not consist in worshipping many absolute and independent gods , or truly and properly so called . ( . ) that inferiour worship on the account of created excellency is unlawful , when it appears to be religious . this he proved from their condemning the worship of confutius , which the jesuits allowed . and t. g. is so much mistaken in thinking that dr. st. had any design to corrupt the testimony of trigautius by confounding the worship of confutius and the tutelar spirits , that his argument is the stronger for the distinction between them . for , although no prayers be made to confutius , no divine power be supposed to be in him as in the tutelar spirits , yet because he had a temple in every city with his image in it ; and all other external rites of adoration used , as genuflections , wax-candles , incense and oblations ; ( such as your church useth to images without prayers ) yet these are condemned as idolatrous . and although the cardinals might not then reflect on the consequence of this resolution as to their own practices ; yet i cannot but admire at the wisdom of that providence , which once directed caiaphas to speak a great truth beside his intention , that so overruled the congregation of cardinals to condemn their own idolatry under the name of confutius . for if the using those external acts of adoration towards the image of confutius be idolatry ; why shall it not be so , where prayers are added , as they are in your church to the images set up in your churches ? let t. g. tell me wherein the nature of that idolatry lay , which consisted in external acts of adoration , without any opinion of confutius being a god truly and properly so called . ( . ) that external acts are capable of idolatry , however the intention of the mind be directed . for , although the cardinals believed the crucifix to be a proper object of divine worship , yet they condemned those acts as idolatrous which were directed to it in the temple of the tutelar spirits . and upon the whole matter , i think , no impartial reader will believe that t. g. hath said any thing to purpose upon this matter , and that he had better left those few leaves still vacant , than have filled them with such an insignificant postscript ; and he hath no reason to thank his friend for putting him upon laying open so much the weakness of his cause . for , from hence it farther appears that the modern idolaters will likewise be excused , if the nature of idolatry doth consist , as t. g. saith , in worshipping many gods truly and properly so called . r. p. but you are mistaken , if you think t. g. placeth the nature of idolatry wholly in this , for he saith , that the heathens were guilty of idolatry in worshipping nature instead of god , either the several parts of the vniverse as sun , moon , and stars , &c. understanding the fire by jupiter , the air by juno , &c. or the soul of the world , as the stoicks did ; whereby the heathens did , as t. g. often repeats it from vossius , relicto deo in naturae veneratione consistere , forsaking god stay in the worship of the creatures : and for this he quotes athanasius , s. augustine , and athenagoras . p. d. it is sufficient for dr. st.'s design , if the worship of images , and of intellectual beings under one supreme god were idolatry among the heathens , for then it must remain so among christians ; as well as murder and adultery are the same whereever they are found . but since you have proposed it , i shall consider with you how far the worship of the creatures in general is idolatry . but i have some few questions to ask you about this sort of idolatry . ( . ) whether you think the heathens idolatry did lye in worshipping meer matter as god ? or , ( . ) in worshipping god as the soul of the world , and the several parts of it with respect to him ? or , ( . ) in acknowledging a creator , but giving all the worship to the creatures ? r. p. in all these , according to their several opinions . p. d. do you really think any of them did worship meer matter , without life , sense , or understanding for god ? for , either they did believe some other god or not ? if they did , how is it possible they should not worship that , which could hear , and understand , and help them ; and worship that which could do none of these ? if they did not believe any other god , they were atheists and not idolaters . for are not those atheists who acknowledge no other god but meer matter ; i. e. no god at all ? for so vossius himself saith , those who held meer matter to be god , verbo deum fatebantur , re negabant : did only seem to believe a god whom they really denyed . for what kind of god , saith he , was that which had neither sense nor reason ? r. p. it was idolatry then to worship the parts of the world with a respect to god as the soul of it ; which as t. g. saith in his postscript , is to make a false god. p. d. there are two things which deserve to be considered as to this matter . ( . ) in what sense making god the soul of the world is setting up a false god ? ( . ) how far the gentiles could be charged with idolatry , who worshipped the parts of the world with respect to god as the soul of it ? r. p. do not you think making god the soul of the world is setting up a false god ? p. d. i pray tell me what you mean by the soul of the world . for either you mean the natural series of causes , or the more subtil and active parts of matter diffused through the vniverse without mind and vnderstanding ; or you mean an intelligent being which by wisdom and providence orders and governs the world , but withall is so united to it , as the soul is to the body ; if you mean the former , i say all such who held it were really atheists , and only differed in the way of speaking from those who worshipped meer matter ; for let them call god the soul of the world never so much , they mean no more than that there is no other god but the power of nature . if you mean an vnderstanding being governing the world whose essence is distinct from matter , but yet is supposed to be so united to it as the soul is to the body ; then i pray tell me in what sense you make him to be a false god , and how it comes to be idolatry to worship the parts of the world with respect to him ? r. p. s. augustin proves against varro that god was not the soul of the world , if there were any such thing , but the creator and maker of it : and he shews that this opinion is attended with impious and irreligious consequences . p. d. i do not go about to defend the opinion , but i hope i may ask , wherein the idolatry lay of worshipping one god under this notion as he animated the world and the several parts of it ? r. p. in worshipping the several parts of the world with divine worship ; not with a respect to the body , but to god as the soul of it ; for therein aquinas placeth their idolatry . p. d. is relative latria idolatry ? r. p. why do you ask me such an impertinent question ? p. d. nothing can be more pertinent , for this is meer relative latria . r. p. it was idolatry in them , but yet not so in us when we worship the crucifix with respect to christ. p. d. you may as well say , lying with another mans wife was adultery in them , but not in you. i pray shew the difference . r. p. you would fain bring me back again to the worship of images ; but you shall not . for i say their idolatry lay in worshipping god as united to the parts of the world ; and giving divine worship to them on that account . p. d. will you stand to this ? r. p. why not ? p. d. then i will prove worshipping the host to be idolatry on the same grounds . for in both cases , there is a supposition really false , but which being true would justifie the act of worship ; and if notwithstanding that supposition that god is the soul of the world , the worshipping of god as so united is idolatry , then the worship of the host notwithstanding the supposition of christs body being united to the species is idolatry too ; they being both acts of adoration given to those objects which in themselves deserve no worship , but yet are adored upon such a supposition which being true would justifie the performance of them . r. p. you are much mistaken in your parallel . for , as t. g. well observed , in the worship of the host , the act of adoration is not formally terminated upon the bread , supposing it to remain , but upon god : but we conceive the bread not to be there at all ; but in place thereof the only true and eternal god. and whatever is taken for an object of worship , the understanding must affirm ( either truly or falsly ) to be ; but catholicks , whether mistaken or not in the belief of transubstantiation , do not in their minds affirm the bread to be , but not to be ; because they believe it to be converted into the body of christ. but they who worshipped the parts of the world with a respect to god as the soul of it , did however believe those to have a real being , and not to be turned into the substance of god. p. d. all that this proves is , that you do not take the bread it self for god ; no more did they , who worshipped the parts of the world , as members of that body to which god was united as the soul , take those parts for god. but in both cases there is a supposition equal to justifie the worship if true ; and if notwithstanding this supposition , the heathens were guilty of idolatry ; why are not you upon a far more unreasonable supposition than that ? if christs body be present in the eucharist , you say , you may worship it as there present ; so say they , if god be the soul of the world , we may lawfully worship the several parts of it ? but you say , whatever is an object of worship must be supposed to be ; whereas you suppose the bread not to be , but to be converted into the body of christ ; which alters not the case ; for the question is not about the bare being or not being of the thing , but of the being or not being of a fit object of worship . i will make the matter plain to you by this instance ; one of the most common idolatries of the heathen world was the worship of the sun ; they who did worship it , did suppose it to be a fit object for worship , but they who looked on the sun as a meer creature could not think so : therefore to make any creature a fit object for worship , there must go a farther supposition ; viz. of the divinity being in it or united to it . now the main point lyes here , whether on supposition that the substance of the sun doth not remain , it would not be idolatry , but on supposition that it doth remain it would be idolatry ? i pray then answer me , would it be idolatry or not to worship the sun , suppose a man believed the very substance of the sun to be turned into the divinity ? r. p. no surely . for that is our own case . p. d. how comes it then to be idolatry supposing the divinity united to the substance of the sun ? r. p. in one case we may be supposed to worship a thing which is ; but in the other we cannot be supposed to worship that which at the same time we believe not to be . p. d. if it be idolatry to worship that as god which is not god , then the worship of the host may be idolatry , though you suppose the bread not to be . for to suppose that not to be which really is , doth no more alter the case ; than to suppose that to be god which is not , for that is to suppose that not to be a creature which is . for the worshippers of any parts of the world might profess as solemnly as you do about the bread , that if they did believe the sun to be a meer creature , they should abhorr the thoughts of worshipping it ; but believing it either to be god it self , or at least that the godhead is united to it ; why are not they as excusable as those who declare they abhor the thoughts of worshipping the bread ? but they believe it not to be bread , but the body of the son of god. r. p. but t. g. observes , that the formal term of idolatrous worship is an undue object ; viz. a creature instead of the creator ; but catholicks in case of a mistake , would have no other formal object in their minds , but the creator himself . p. d. as though the nature of idolatry did consist in the worship of a creature , knowing it to be a meer creature . might not the heathens have said they had no other formal object of adoration in their minds , but god ; but supposing him united to the parts of the world they might worship them on his account ; as well as those of the church of rome give adoration to that which appears to be meer bread ? if they who worship the sun on the account of the divinity which is in it or united to it , be yet guilty of idolatry , because though on supposition the divinity were so united the worship would be lawful , yet the supposition being false they are guilty of idolatry ; why then should not those be equally guilty of it , who worship a divinity as present under the species of bread , if the substance of bread doth still remain ? for then the worship however intended falls upon a meer creature , as it did in the former case . r. p. those who worshipped the sun , did suppose the substance of the sun still to remain ; but catholicks do not suppose the substance of bread to continue , but in place thereof do worship the only true and eternal god. p. d. it is true they did suppose the substance of the sun to remain ; but they did not intend to terminate their worship on that substance , but on the divinity united to it ; and to suppose that not to be bread which is really bread , doth no more excuse from idolatry , than supposing that not to be a meer creature , which really is no more . but to drive this matter home to you , i will ask a farther question , were those idolaters who worshipped the parts of the world as a part of the substance of god himself ; so that he is one and all ? r. p. suppose they were . p. d. did not they believe there was no other substance but of god present in what they worshipped ? r. p. and what follows ? p. d. do you not perceive ? that to suppose that not to be which really is , and that to be which is not , doth not excuse from idolatry . r. p. i must talk a little farther with t. g. about this matter . but i have another reason yet to charge the heathens with idolatry , viz. that they forsook the worship of the creatour , and staid in the worship of the creature . p. d. do you mean that they gave him no external worship , or that they gave him no worship at all ? or do you think any that believed a god , gave him no inward worship , i. e. no reverence or esteem suitable to his excellency ? r. p. why do you ask these questions ? p. d. because many of the heathens thought external worship beneath the excellency of the supreme god , as dr. st. hath fully shewed from the testimonies of porphyrius , numa , the platonists , the mandarins in china , and the ynca's of peru . is it then idolatry to deny external worship to god out of reverence to his majesty , and to give it to inferiour beings ? r. p. it is idolatry to give all external worship to his creatures and to reserve none to himself : because some external worship is due to him . p. d. if external worship be due to god , it is not because he needs it , but because it is fit for us his creatures to testifie our subjection to him as our creatour . r. p. be it so . p. d. ought not that worship then to be so peculiar to him , as to manifest the different esteem we have of the creatour and his creatures ? r. p. yes . p. d. is it not then an injury to gods honour to give that worship which ought to be peculiar to himself , to any of his creatures ? and that which the scripture calls idolatry ? r. p. but how will you know what external acts of worship those are which are peculiar to god ? for therein lyes the great difficulty . p. d. either we suppose god to have revealed his will to mankind , or not . if not , we have the light of nature , and the consent of mankind to direct us ; if he hath , we must consider the revelation he hath made of his will in this matter . for since god hath the power to determine our duty , and he knows best what makes for his honour , it is but just and reasonable that we should judge of these things according to his will. what he appoints as due to himself , becomes due by his appointment ; and to give that to another which he hath made due only to himself , is without question the giving the worship due to god to his creatures ; which is idolatry . our business therefore is , to consider whether god hath appropriated any acts of worship to himself ; what those acts are ; how far the obligation of them doth extend to us ; what we find to that purpose in the doctrine of christ and his apostles ; what the sense of the christian church hath been concerning them in the best and purest times of it . if you can think of any better wayes than these , i pray acquaint me with them . r. p. i see what you are coming to , viz. the appropriate acts of divine worship ; but before we debate that business , i have something more yet to say to you about the heathen idolatry . p. d. what is that ? r. p. t. g. observes , that the heathens did worship their gods as sharers with jupiter in the divine power and authority , and upon that account believed them to be truly and properly gods , in whose power it was to bestow those benefits upon them , which they desired , and they were justly charged with idolatry by the fathers for so doing . and he observes from t. godwin in his roman antiquities , that some were gods by their own right , others only by right of donation : of the former sort were those who were partners in the government of the world . now , saith he , to give worship to any other besides god as a sharer with him in it , though but in this or that particular , will be idolatry ; and in this consideration , were there no other , they might be justly charged with it by the fathers ; but in our church we own god to be the sole giver of every good and perfect gift , and make our addresses to angels and saints as his ministers and servants not to obtain of them the benefits we desire , but of god alone by their intercession through his only son and our only redeemer jesus christ , as the council of trent hath declared . p. d. here are two things to be cleared , ( . ) how far the heathens did make other gods sharers with the supreme in the government of the world. ( . ) how far your opinion and practice differ from theirs . . how far the heathens did make other gods sharers with the supreme in the government of the world. for which we are to consider a double hypothesis which was received among the heathens . first , of those who worshipped the same god under several names and titles with respect to particular powers ; which dr. st. proved from plotinus , plutarch , apuleius , and your own simon majolus , who on this account commends the poetick theology beyond that of pythagoras and socrates . and this hypothesis s. augustin takes particular notice of , viz. that the same god was jupiter above , juno in the air , neptune in the sea , and in the bottom of it salacia , pluto upon earth , proserpina under it , vesta in the hearth , vulcan in the forge , apollo in oracles , mercury in trade , mars in war , ceres in corn , diana in the woods , minerva among wits ; with many more which he reckons up , and then concludes , that all these gods and goddesses are but one jupiter ; or the several parts and powers of the same god ; and this , he saith , was the opinion of many learned , and great men among them . ( quae sententia velut magnorum multorumque doctorum est . ) all these made no sharers in divinity by believing them to be truely and properly gods , but only different titles and powers of the same god. secondly , there was another hypothesis more general than this , viz. of one supreme god and many inferiour who were imployed by him . of which you may remember the words of tertullian , that the greatest part asserted the supreme power to be in one , and the subordinate offices to be in many . and orosius saith , that both the philosophers and common heathens did believe one god the author of all things ; but under this god they worshipped many inferiour and subservient gods. in the council of carthage under cyprian saturninus a tucca ( who was both a bishop and confessor ) saith , that the heathen idolaters did acknowledge and confess the supreme god , father and creator . and this was so known a thing , that faustus the manichee charged the christians with being of the same faith with the pagans , as to one supreme god. although therefore the heathens did own and worship many gods , yet they looked on them as inferiour and subordinate to the supreme , and only imployed by him in the administration of things under him . and as for the partners you mention , they were not such quoad plenitudinem potestatis ; but only made use of in their particular offices ; you know the distinction ; and it serves better here than in the court of rome . but i cannot but wonder , when t. g. had upbraided dr. st. for two pages together with his father livy , father varro , father cicero , father seneca , father virgil , &c. he should at last sink so low as to quote father t. g. in his roman antiquities against him ; surely any one of those fathers in a matter of roman antiquities would weigh down a hundred father t. g.'s ; and yet even this testimony doth not prove that the gods that were supposed to be in heaven by their own right were supreme and independent deities , but the dij consentes were of a higher rank than the semidei or indigites , the one having been always in heaven according to the platonists supposition , the other being assumed from among men ; which comes at last to the distinction of angels and saints . . how far your opinion and practice do differ from theirs . and here i pray remember that i go not about to compare the heathen gods with angels and saints as to their excellencies , for the apostle tells us , however the gentiles intended it , they did really sacrifice to devils and not to god : but i am only to compare the heathens notion of worship and yours together . and if you do allow gods by participation , viz. spirits assumed into such a share of government as to have the care of some things and places committed to some more than to others ; and if addresses and supplications are allowed to be made to them on that account , i desire to know how the heathens are justly charged with idolatry , and you not ? was it idolatry to pray to diana as an inferiour deity which presided over hunting , and is it none to pray to s. hubert on the like account ? was it idolatry to pray to vesta to preserve from the fire , and is it none to pray to s. agatha ? if two persons in the same storm prayed as to their tutelar deities , the one to neptune , the other to s. paul ; is the one guilty of idolatry , and the other not ? if two women in travail prayed for help , the one to lucina , the other to the b. virgin , is the first only guilty of idolatry ? they might be accused of ignorance and folly in making a bad choice , but i do not see how the heathens could be charged with idolatry , and not the other . when saints are canonized to be particular patrons of places , as s. rosa lately for peru ; why may not the inhabitants make particular addresses to her as their patroness , and tutelar deity , as lipsius did to the b. virgin ? is not this to make such a saint a sharer in the government of the world , as much as the heathens did their tutelar gods under one supreme ? and therefore upon t. g.'s own ground , you are as justly charged with idolatry as the heathens were . for the heathens did not look on their tutelar gods as the original givers , but as the subordinate ministers . r. p. but as t. g. saith , we do not pray to them to obtain the things we desire , but that they would be our intercessors with god for us . p. d. i wonder t. g. would say this again without answering what dr. st. had said in his late defence to shew ( . ) that the very words of the council of trent do allow more than bare intercession . ( . ) that formal prayers to them to bestow blessings are allowed and practised among them ; of which he produces several instances of present use in the approved books of devotion . ( . ) that such prayers do not contradict any received doctrine of the roman church : and he challenges t. g. to shew , what article of your creed , what decree of your church , what doctrine of your divines it doth contradict , for any man to pray directly to the virgin mary for the destruction of heresies , support under troubles , grace to withstand temptations , and reception to glory ? and what can we beg for more from god himself ? but i do not yet understand how you can charge those heathens with idolatry , who owned a supreme god and worshipped inferiour deities as subordinate to them , and their images ; but the charge will return upon your selves . r. p. will you never be satisfied ? did not t. g. say , they were justly charged with it on two accounts . ( . ) because those images were instituted by publick authority for the worship of false gods ; and they concurred with the vulgar in all the external practices of their idolatry . ( . ) because though in their schools they denied them to be gods , yet they gave divine honour to them as the people did . p. d. you must excuse me sir , i have such an imperfection in my understanding that it will not be satisfied , without the appearance at least of reason ; which i confess i cannot yet see in this answer . for , i pray , how comes it to be idolatry in them who give only an inferiour and relative worship , if that worship be not idolatry ? r. p. t. g. saith , they were not guilty of internal idolatry , but of external , complying with the vulgar who did worship them as truely and properly gods ; and that in such a manner that they were judged to do the same thing , and therefore it was at least an exteriour profession of idolatry in them . p. d. but you have not yet proved that the gentiles did worship many independent gods ; and i have very lately shewed the contrary from the express testimonies of the fathers : and therefore this answer doth not reach to the case . yet suppose , that against the general sense of understanding men , the common people should take the inferiour gods for independent and absolute deities , is not this the case of your own church ? as dr. st. observed , the common people take their images for gods , or take the b. virgin for the queen of heaven , and pray to them accordingly , which is both internal and external idolatry in them , however t. g. and their learned men comply with them in all their external acts of worship , are they guilty of the exteriour profession of idolatry or not ? r. p. i thought where you would be , but is it the same case of some few men complying with a common and publick custom of idolatrous worship ; and of those who follow the publick profession and do the same acts with some private men who turn them to idolatrous worship ? p. d. but if the publick profession of the gentiles was to worship one supreme god , as i have already proved , then the case is the very same as to the profession and practice of idolatry ; which is the main thing insisted on . and the shewing of many other circumstantial differences will not vary the case , and destroy the parallel . if this be all you have to add about the heathen idolatry , i pray let us come to the appropriate acts of divine worship . for since god may appropriate acts of worship to himself ; since upon that they become due only to him ; since idolatry is giving to the creature the worship due to god ; dr. st. from hence proves , that they who do those acts by way of worship to any creature must be guilty of idolatry . r. p. as to this mighty argument t. g. saith , the only thing to be wondred at in it are the many equivocations , false suppositions , and self-contradictions contained in it . p. d. fair and soft good sir , let us not have so many charges at one time ; take which of them you please , provided you hold to it , and not ramble from one to another . r. p. what is it you understand by appropriate acts of divine worship ? for more or less may be required , and so the term be equivocal . p. d. i mean such which by his appointment and command become due to him , and by his prohibition to give them to any other they become due only to him . r. p. there is something still wanting to make the argument conclusive against us , which is , that god hath so tied these acts to his own worship , that in all cases , and upon all occasions imaginable they become incommunicable to any other , and this so fastned to them , that it cannot be separated from them . for if the appropriation may be separated upon any accounts , we may and will pretend it is . p. d. how doth it appear necessary , that such an appropriation must be in all circumstances ? is it not sufficient that it be in all acts of religious worship ? for instance , adoration is an appropriate act of divine worship , but he doth not hereby exclude mens bowing to each other on account of civil respect , but where the circumstances of time , place , &c. do shew it is for religious worship , there dr. st. saith it ought to be given to none else but god. r. p. but if those acts be communicable to any other besides god , as limited with such and such circumstances , they are not absolutely appropriated to god in all cases and upon all accounts imaginable ; and so the argument doth not conclude . p. d. i wonder to hear you talk at this rate . for the force of your argument lies in this , if it be lawful to bow to one another on a civil account , then religious worship is not appropriated to god ; what a strange consequence is this ? dr. st. doth say , that the circumstances of time and place , &c. do put a sufficient discrimination between acts of civil and religious worship ; as between eating and drinking upon a natural account at a common table , and eating and drinking at the eucharist . what a sensless way of reasoning were this , for a man to say , that eating and drinking could not be appropriated to that act of divine worship in celebration of the lords supper , because men eat and drink upon other occasions ? it is true , they do so and must do so if they would live ; but what then ? may not christ therefore institute a supper of his own with such rites and solemnities belonging to it , as may sufficiently discriminate it from a common eating and drinking ? and were it not a horrible profanation to appoint such a supper as that of our lord is , in commemoration of of s. francis , or ignatius loyola ? i see , i must put some questions to you to make you apprehend this a little better , than i fear you do . is not the celebration of the eucharist an appropriate act of divine worship now under the gospel ? r. p. i do not well know what you mean. p. d. so i thought by your way of talking . is it lawful to meet together at mass , to set apart bread and wine , and afterwards to partake of them with a design to commemorate s. francis and st. rosa , by such a solemnity ? r. p. i think not ; because that would be a profane imitation of our lords supper , which was instituted by christ himself for the commemoration of his own sufferings . p. d. but is it not lawful to eat bread and to drink wine together ? r. p. who doubts of that ? p. d. but eating bread and drinking wine are the same acts in substance which are used at the lords supper . r. p. and what then ? p. d. then the substance of the acts being the same when done upon a civil and a religious account , doth not take off from the appropriation of them to god when the circumstances declare it to be an act of religious worship . therefore when a dispute arises concerning the nature of an act , whether it be for civil or religious worship , common prudence is to judge of that from the circumstances of it ; if once it be found to be for religious worship , then comes in the consideration of the law of god , and the appropriation of all acts of religious worship to god alone . and by this time i hope you understand how impertinent it is to say , that if there be appropriate acts of divine worship , they must be so in all cases and upon all accounts imaginable . which is as much as to say , that eating bread and drinking wine in a solemn manner , in a place appointed for divine worship , cannot be appropriated to the lords supper , unless we never eat bread , or drink wine , but upon that occasion . r. p. but what are these appropriate acts of divine worship ? for it may be some farther light may be gathered from the acts themselves . p. d. dr. st. hath named six ; sacrifice , religious adoration , solemn invocation ; erecting temples and altars , burning of incense , making of vows . r. p. hath god tyed us by his command to offer sacrifice , or burn incense , or make vows to him ? how then can he argue the romanists guilty of idolatry upon the account of giving acts appropriated to god to others beside him , when himself if put to it , will deny that god hath commanded them to be done at all to him ? p. d. to clear this matter a little more to you , you may consider two things concerning appropriate acts of divine worship . . the general prohibition of giving religious worship to any thing besides god. which our saviour hath delivered in those words , thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve . which the primitive church took for their fundamental rule of worship ; and understood it in this sense , that all acts of religious worship were to be performed to god alone . and therefore of what kind soever the acts were , whether we were tied to perform them to god or not , if they were looked on as acts of religious worship given to any creature , they utterly and peremptorily refused to do them , and rather chose to suffer martyrdom ; as was plain in the case of burning incense to the emperours image . no christians did then think that we were tied to offer incense to god , and yet they esteemed it idolatry to offer incense to any creature ; therefore it is not necessary to the nature of idolatry , that the act of worship be such as we are tied to give unto god ; it being sufficient that it is an act of religious worship ; and the giving of any such to a creature is idolatry ; and without this , it is impossible to defend the martyrs of the primitive church ; which all christians are bound to do . . as to particular acts of divine worship , though they are always unlawful to be given to any thing besides god , yet we are not tyed after the same manner to perform them to him . for ( . ) some acts of worship are natural and always equally agreeing to the majesty of god ; such as prayer and invocation ; dependence on his goodness and providence ; thanksgiving for mercies received ; and all internal acts of worship , which result from the relation we stand in to god , and the apprehensions we ought to have of his perfections ; as fear from his power , submission from his providence , faith and trust in him from his truth and wisdom , love from his goodness , &c. all these are necessary acts of worship , and proper to god. ( . ) some acts of worship are appropriated to him when they are due , but they are not alwayes due : such as making vows , and swearing by his name . although we are not tied to perform these at any certain times , yet whenever they are done , they must be done to god alone . ( . ) some acts are not necessary to be done to god at all ; and yet it is unlawful to do them to any other . and of this kind are the offering sacrifices and burning incense ; which were strictly required under the law , but that dispensation expiring after the coming of christ , the obligation to those acts was wholly taken away , and yet it was idolatry to use them to any thing besides god ; because they were acts of religious worship , and therefore if to be performed at all , they were so due to him that they could not without idolatry be applied to any besides him . and thus , i hope , i have a little helped your understanding about these appropriate acts of divine worship . r. p. but the force of the ceremonial law being taken away ; whatever is not obliging by the law of nature , or some express declaration of the will of christ , is left at liberty for the church to use conformably to the light of nature , and the design of christs doctrine . p. d. all this i yield . but that which i insist upon , is that fundamental precept of worship as declared by christ , thou shalt worship the lord thy god and him only shalt thou serve . r. p. but do you think that christ hath made a re-establishment of those acts in the new law which were before peculiar to god , as sacrifice , incense , &c. for then christians will be as much bound by this precept to give them to god , as not to give them to any other . but if they are not re-established , how doth it follow , that because they were appropriated to god by the law , therefore now that law is taken away , they are forbidden to any other besides god ? p. d. i do not say that christ did intend a re-establishment of those acts of worship which were peculiar to the law of moses ; but i do say , that christ by this precept as explained by himself , doth make it utterly unlawful to perform any act of religious worship to any but god alone . and if this be all you have to prove the mass of equivocations , false suppositions , and self-contradictions in dr. st.'s discourse of appropriate acts of divine worship , it had been more for t. g.'s honour to have passed over this with as much silence as he did many other places which he found too hard for him . r. p. suppose this argument were good , it proves nothing against us , who neither give any act absolutely appropriated to god to any else besides him ; nor any other in the manner it is appropriated to him . p. d. if you perform any act of religious worship either to saints or images , this discourse must concern you ; because the law against the worship of images is still in force among christians ; and our saviours general rule doth forbid all external acts of religious worship being applied to any besides god. r. p. nay , supposing those external acts of worship to be now due to god by his law , the giving them to any besides himself will not be to give to the creature the worship due to god , unless it be done with an intention to give them to a creature as esteemed worthy of divine honour . for that is the definition of real idolatry . p. d. then the mandarins in china who performed all external acts of adoration in the temple of the tutelar spirits secretly directing their intention to a crucifix were not guilty of idolatry ; notwithstanding the decree of the congregation at rome . for they did not perform those acts , with an intention to give the worship to the tutelar spirits as esteemed worthy of divine honour . then the thurificati of the primitive church who through fear offered incense , could not be charged with idolatry ; nor marcellinus though he sacrificed in the temple of vesta , when he only complied with dioclesian . but did not t. g. blame the philosophers for an exteriour profession of idolatry ? what is that i beseech you ? is it idolatry or not ? doth not t. g. grant , that there ought in reason to be some peculiar external acts appropriated to the worship of god as most agreeable to his incommunicable excellencie ? why so i pray ? is it not , because gods incommunicable excellency requires an external worship peculiar to it self ? and if so , is it not to give the worship due to god to something else , to apply those acts which are peculiar to himself , to any thing besides him ? this debate in truth comes to this point at last , whether there ought to be any such thing as a peculiar external worship of god or not ? for , if external worship be due to him , and such worship be due to him alone for his incommunicable excellencie , then the giving external worship to a creature , must be giving to it what is due only to god. and to resolve the nature of idolatry into the inward intention , is all one as if one should say , that adultery were to lie with another mans wife with an intention to cuckold her husband ; but if a man did it out of love to her person , it were no adultery . why is there not an external act of idolatry , as well as of perjury , theft , murder and the like ? where doth the scripture give the least intimation that the nature of idolatry is to be taken from the inward intention , when the law is express against the outward action : and all men are charged with idolatry who were guilty of the external acts , without running into the thoughts and designs of their hearts ? nay , your own authors cannot deny that there is an external idolatry as well as internal ; and where the outward acts are idolatrous we ought to presume there was an implicit and indirect intention ; and no more is necessary to make an act idolatrous than a voluntary inclination to do it . this is therefore a meer subterfuge , and can never satisfie a mans conscience , nor excuse the roman church from idolatry . r. p. but t. g. grants that supposing such an appropriation of external acts to remain in force ; to apply such acts to a creature may and ought in reason to be interpreted to be real idolatrous worship ; because idolatry is a sin directly opposite to religion , as a false worship to a true one . p. d. what is it then but to cavil about words , to deny that to be real idolatry which at the same time he confesses ought to be interpreted to be so ? for since we cannot judge of mens intentions but by their actions , when we dispute about the idolatry practised in any church , we can be understood only of that which lies open to our judgement , and that can be only the external act . and since t. g. grants , that the thing which the dr. means is confessed by your selves to be inconsistent with salvation , there is nothing further necessary to be done , but to debate whether you are guilty of that sin or not , in applying appropriate acts of divine worship to a creature . r. p. but doth not dr. st. himself shew from card. tolet , that idolatry doth suppose an error in the mind , in judging that to deserve divine honour which doth not ? p. d. i grant it , but that only shews what practical judgement doth precede a voluntary act of idolatry : as it is distinguished from an involuntary compliance . in this later case , persons are really guilty as to the external act ; as a man that takes away his neighbours goods out of fear of his own life is really guilty of theft , although the fear he was in may lessen the wilfulness of it : so in idolatry when committed through the power of a sudden passion is a sin of the same kind with other idolatry , but not so wilful and deliberate a sin . but in case of wilful idolatry , there must be a practical judgement determining the will to the act of idolatry . if you ask me what that judgement is , whether true , or erroneous ; i say it is an erroneous judgement , for it determines the giving divine worship to that which doth not deserve it . not as though idolatry implied the believing that to be truly and properly god which is not ; ( which t. g. would infer from thence ) but it implies only the practical judgement determining the will to give divine worship to that which really deserves it not . as for instance ; suppose an image of our lady to stand before two persons ; the one declares against the worship of it , though he may be forced to do it , he is guilty of real but involuntary idolatry ( taking involuntary as to the free inclination of the will ) the other readily and spontaneously falls down upon his knees before it , and says his prayers to the image as gravely and devoutly as if the b. virgin were present ; both these do concur in the same external act of worship , but from a very different judgement ; the one judges it fit to comply for his own safety ; the other judges the thing fit to be done : but it is not necessary that he judges the image to be the b. virgin her self , but that he ought to give such worship to her image ; so that judging divine worship to belong to that which doth not really deserve it , is all the erroneous judgement necessary to a wilful act of idolatry ; and if this be any kindness to t. g. much good may it do him . r. p. but t. g. saith , that from hence it follows , that it is not real idolatry to worship an image with divine worship unless it be done out of an erroneous judgement , as to a thing that deserves divine honour . p. d. no such matter ; for from hence it only follows , that in a wilful act of idolatry there must be a practical judgement determining the act of divine worship to an image , though it deserves it not . so that this doth not refer to the manner of applying the external act to the object as deserving divine honour , but only the antecedent judgement that the act of divine worship be given to such an object . r. p. again t. g. saith , that from hence it follows , that the case of the heathens and ours is different , because their idolatry proceeded upon an erroneous belief of a creatures deserving divine honour when it doth not ; but we do no such thing . p. d. cannot t. g. understand the difference between an erroneous belief and an erroneous practical judgement ? i do not deny that the heathens had a very erroneous belief in many particulars ; and so have other idolaters too . but the question now is , what error of judgement that is , which the wilful act of idolatry doth suppose ; and i say , it requires no more than an error in the practical judgement , determining the will to give divine worship to that which doth not deserve it . and herein i see no difference between the heathens idolatry and yours . r. p. but let us now set aside the strict notion of idolatry , and consider , whether the church of rome be guilty of damnable sin in the manner of their worship , which must either be in not giving to god the worship due to him , or by giving the worship due only to him to his creatures . p. d. the later is that which dr. st. chiefly insists upon , although , he saith , your divines are to blame in the first particular , because they reserve no one act of external adoration as proper to god and to be performed by all christians , and for this he quotes the resolution of cardinal lugo . r. p. i wonder you would mention that citation of lugo , since t. g. saith the dr. is so unhappy in his citations : and the jesuits will say , that he evidently abuses both his authority and his eminency . p. d. i have had so much experience of t. g.'s intolerable disingenuity in this matter , that i durst venture an even wager ( which is the way t. g. proposes often in his dialogues for ending such disputes ) that dr. st. hath not miscited cardinal lugo . r. p. t. g. saith , that cardinal lugo doth not deny sacrifice to be an external act of worship proper to god ; for his words are , qui non potest offerri nisi soli deo , as may not be offered but to god alone ; but , he saith , that sacrifice is not properly an act of adoration in the strict sense , but of another kind distinct from it . p. d. those are not lugo's words , but licet non possit offerri nisi soli deo ; yet i shall not insist upon that . for that which sufficiently clears dr. st. is , the consideration of his design in bringing those words of lugo , which was to prove that there is no one external act of adoration which is proper to latria , or the worship peculiar to god. and are not lugo's words plain and full to this purpose ? r. p. that cannot be denied , but he takes adoration in the stricter sense . p. d. let him take it in what sense he will ; doth he not speak of the adoration proper to latria , or the worship peculiar to god ? and doth not latria take in any peculiar act of divine worship ? and if there be no external act of adoration peculiar to god , doth it not follow , that there is no peculiar act whereby you express your inward submission to god in all things ? for that , lugo saith , is the strict sense of adoration he there means . and doth not this fully prove what dr. st. brought this testimony for ? r. p. but the church of rome doth hold sacrifice to be peculiar to god. p. d. and doth not dr. st. say as much ? for his words are , that you confess , that sacrifice is so peculiar to god that it ought not to be offered to any else ; but not as an act of latria saith cardinal lugo , for there is no act of adoration that is so ; but upon another account as it signifies gods absolute dominion over us as to life and death , and that we ought to lay down our own lives when he calls for them ▪ which is to make sacrifice a significant ceremony peculiar to god expressing his soveraignty , but not an immediate act of worship peculiar to him : for of that kind , he saith , there is none . and therefore according to him , your church hath no one external act of divine worship so proper to god , that it may not be offered but to him alone . and from hence it appears that lugo did not take adoration meerly for that act of religious worship which is performed by the motion of the body , as t. g. suggests ; but for whatsoever act that may tend to express the submission of our souls to god ; of which sort he denies any to be peculiar to gods worship . and what can be more contrary to that which t. g. admits for a law of nature , viz. that man ought to use some external acts to testifie his submission to god , and therefore there ought to be some peculiar external acts appropriated to the worship of god , as most agreeable to his incommunicable excellency ? i could not but rejoyce to see t. g. own so reasonable a principle , and i desire no other , as to the meer light of nature to prove your idolatry . for , if this be a principle of natural religion ; then idolatry even by the light of nature lies in applying appropriate acts of divine worship to any but to god himself ; for since his excellency is incommunicable , and the submission we owe to god peculiar to him , and that submission ought to be expressed by external acts , all which t. g. grants ; then all those who do use such acts to any besides god , are guilty of giving the worship due to god unto a creature . for god hath not only a right to our inward submission , but to the acknowledgement of it , which cannot be done but by external acts : and which is observable as to this matter ; the honour of god as to his incommunicable excellencies with respect to mankind as a body , doth not lie in the bare acts of the mind , but in the external performance of religious worship to him . for , if it be necessary that gods authority be owned in the world , it is necessary it be done by visible acts of worship ; which ought to be so appropriated to him , that any one who discerns them may see the difference put between god and all his creatures . for herein lies the manifestation of that inward sense we have of gods incommunicable excellencies , when we set apart times , and places , and offices of religious worship , by which we declare our submission to god , as our creator and governor of the world. and the confounding this distance between god and his creatures is the great sin of idolatry : from whence aquinas and others conclude it to be a sin of the highest nature , and including blasphemy in it , because it robs god of the honour due to him for his incommunicable excellencies . r. p. what do you mean by this appropriating acts of worship to god ? do you mean all of them so absolutely appropriated to god , that it is not lawful upon any account to give them to any other ? and then the quakers will be the only good christians in the world ; or only some of them , and not others , as kneeling and prostrating , but not bowing ; and then you must tell us what makes the discrimination . p. d. i mean that which all mankind meant , when they set apart times , and places , and offices for divine worship ; and every man by the help of his mother wit knew the difference between going to serve god and going to market . i say then as dr. st. did , that the circumstances do sufficiently discriminate acts of a religious and of a civil nature . r. p. may not the churches declaration , that such acts are intended only for inferiour worship towards images or saints , make a sufficient discrimination between such acts , and those which are appropriated to god ? p. d. if you suppose the whole power of determining acts of divine worship to lie in your churches breast , you had asked a very material question ; but in this case , there is a law of god antecedently prohibiting such acts being given to any besides god himself ; and this law was so understood by the christian church when the christian religion put men upon suffering martyrdom on that principle , that all religious worship was appropriated to god : because christ had said , thou shalt worship the lord thy god and him only shalt thou serve . r. p. who is so blind as not to see , that this prohibition fell upon the external act as determined to be a sign of religious worship by the circumstances in which it was required ? p. d. and what then , i pray ? for doth it not equally fall upon all external acts where the circumstances do determine them to be signs of religious worship ? which is all i desire . r. p. doth not this justifie the quakers in denying to give any external honour to a creature ? p. d. so far from it , that it shews the folly of their doctrine , which arose from not being able to distinguish acts of religious and civil worship . r. p. but dr. st. allows some kind of religious worship to be given to a creature . p. d. not any which is religious in its nature or by circumstances ; but that which might be so called being required by the rule of religion , as civil worship is . r. p. but he allows religious respect to places , and religious honour to saints , and then why not those acts we give to images and saints on the same accounts ? p. d. because the circumstances do declare those are not acts of religious worship ; but those you give to images and saints are . r. p. i see the weight of this whole debate lies at last upon this determination of circumstances ; but how comes the dr. after all the great bustle he makes about gods appropriating external acts of worship to himself , to put the trial of his cause at last upon the determination of circumstances ? p. d. what other way should the difference of moral actions be tried ? what incongruity is there between gods appropriating acts of religious worship to himself , and the finding out what those acts are by the circumstances ? is it not thus in the other commandments ? god in general forbids murder , theft and adultery ; but are not those prohibited acts to be judged by the circumstances ? for , there is the same substance of the act in and unlawful actions . if a man kills another by chance , or out of malice ; if a man takes away another mans goods with his consent or without ; it is the same act as to its substance ; and what discrimination can be made but by the circumstances ? and therefore i cannot but wonder to hear you object against this , or think it any repugnancy to gods appropriating acts of divine worship to himself . r. p. how can the nature of such acts be determined wholly by circumstances , unless the appropriation of them be taken away ? for if that continues , the law determines the nature of the acts . p. d. do you not apprehend the difference between the discrimination of acts of civil and religious worship , and the appropriation of the latter to god by his law ? i say the law makes them peculiar to god when they are found to be acts of religious worship , but the circumstances are to determine whether they are civil or religious acts . as all acts of murder are forbidden by gods law , but whether such an act be murder or no , is to be judged by circumstances . r. p. but then if the external acts of worship given to creatures in the church of rome chance to prove accompanied with such circumstances , by which they may and generally are understood not to be acts of divine worship but of inferiour veneration , then they are acquitted from the guilt of idolatry according to the dr.'s own principles . p. d. no such matter ; unless we suppose those acts to be wholly indifferent and left free by any divine law : and that it is in the churches power to declare what is to pass for divine worship , and what for inferiour worship . but no particular circumstances can make an act lawful , which the law of god hath made unlawful . as suppose the spartan common-wealth allow pilfering or taking away goods from each other without consent of the owners , here is one circumstance which goes a great way towards the altering the nature of such actions ; but if there be an antecedent law of god which makes such acts unlawful , they remain so still notwithstanding the declaration of the spartan state. just thus it is in the present case , your church declares such acts of worship may be lawfully applied to images and saints ; but what then ? hath your church the power to repeal the law of god ? if not , the acts remain as unlawful as ever , notwithstanding the circumstance of such a declaration . r. p. but t. g. saith , all dr. st. 's discourse about discrimination of acts of civil and religious worship by circumstances , is only a popular discourse , and upon enquiry will be found as incoherent and weak as an adversary could wish . p. d. i shall not take t. g.'s judgement in this matter ; for i have not found him so impartial and just , that i should submit to his arbitration . if you have any thing to object against that discourse , i do not question we shall hear of it . r. p. first , acts take their nature from the formal reason or account upon which they tend to their objects , and from thence they become either civil or religious , though they may receive another denomination from the circumstances which do accompany them . p. d. i pray consider ; the thing we enquire after , is the difference between acts of civil and religious worship ; which dr. st. saith is to be taken from the circumstances , no , say you , it must be taken from the formal reason , or account on which they tend to their objects : but the formal reason of acts being secret and invisible , the question is whether that be sufficient to put a discrimination between acts of an external and visible nature , as those of civil and religious worship are . i will make this plain to you by a noted instance : while the christian emperors required no more than meer civil worship , the christians made no scruple of giving it to them in the same postures which were used in divine worship ; but when they suspected that divine worship was required , they utterly refused it : here we have the same acts as to the substance of them in both cases ; and yet the christians could easily discern which did belong to civil and which to religious worship ; was it from such a reason and intention of the persons which none could know but the doers ? or else from the circumstances which did make it appear that more than civil worship was required ? and yet this worship which the heathens gave to their emperours was only an inferiour sort of divine worship , and so understood by the general consent of the heathens themselves ; from whence we gather ( . ) that the discrimination of acts of civil and divine worship do not depend upon the intention of the doer , but the outward circumstances of them . for , if it had depended on the inward intention of the person , the christians might have saved their lives and honours by doing the external acts with a different intention ; and that which was divine worship in him that designed it for such , were but civil worship in him that intended no more . ( . ) that the declaration of an inferiour sort of divine worship doth not make it lawful . for it could be no otherwise understood by the christians , and yet they refused it as idolatrous worship . r. p. ( . ) if the circumstances of time , and place , and such like do so restrain and limit the signification of external acts , that it is easie to discern one worship from another , how can you make it out that the people did not give religious worship to david when in a most solemn act of devotion , it is said , that the people worshipped the lord and the king ? where we see the same act at the same time , a time of solemn devotion given to god and the king , and the people never charged for giving religious worship to the king. p. d. t.g. need not have gone so far back for such an argument . for the kings chaplains in a sacred place and at a solemn time of devotion , do bow three times to the king , when they enter into the pulpit ; and yet who is there imagines they give him divine worship ? it is not therefore the circumstance of time and place alone , which dr. st. makes to discriminate civil and religious worship ; but the concurrence of all circumstances together . if i bowed to a friend at church , is any man so senseless to take this for idolatry ? where there is an antecedent ground for civil worship and respect , which is well known and understood among men , there is nothing like idolatry , although we do use the same external acts towards men which we use towards god himself . as among the israelites no man doubted that their bowing to the king was upon a quite different account , from their bowing to god ; although they bowed to the king in a place dedicated to divine worship . and where the reason of worship is so well understood to be of a quite different nature from that of religious worship , that very reason makes a discrimination besides the circumstances of time and place . which i shall make appear from the case of naaman the syrian ; whose bowing in the house of rimmon was therefore free from idolatry because of the known custom of paying civil respect every where else to his prince in that manner , and by his publick protestatition against the idolatrous worship there performed , as t. g. shews at large from dr. h. t. g. therefore very much mistakes dr. st.'s meaning , if he thinks he assigned the discrimination of acts of religious and civil worship barely to the circumstances of time and place without taking in the object and reason of worship . r. p. but from hence it appears , that bowing in the house and presence of an idol and in the very time of worship , is not idolatry : for then naaman could not be excused . p. d. where the worship is known to be given not to the idol , but to the prince to whom it is acknowledged to be due elsewhere ; dr. st. never supposed such an act of worship though done in an idol-temple to be idolatry . r. p. but suppose men should ask a bishop blessing in a church and at prayer-time , this is not civil worship , and is this idolatry . p. d. worship may be said to be civil two wayes ; . when it is performed on a meer civil account , as it is to magistrates and parents . . when it is performed on the account of a spiritual relation , as in the respect shewed to bishops as spiritual fathers . the worship is of the same kind with that which is shewed to natural parents , but the relation is of another kind ; on which account it may be called spiritual respect ; but it is in it self an act of civil worship arising upon a moral relation , which being of a different nature from that which is between princes and subjects , and parents and children ; and being founded upon religious grounds may be said to be religious or spiritual respect rather than worship . r. p. if the first christians had upon their knees in time of prayer begged s. james his benediction , had this been an unlawful act of worship ? p. d. if they were upon their knees in prayer to god , i think it was a very unseasonable time to ask their bishop blessing ; although the act in it self were lawful . r. p. but is not this an act of the same kind with that of invocation of saints in times and places of divine worship , when we only pray to them to pray for us ? p. d. i say again , that is not all you do ; for you own their patronage , protection and power to help you in your necessities ; and your prayers must be understood according to your doctrines . but suppose you did only pray to them to pray for you , yet ( . ) you do it with all the solemnity of divine worship in the publick litanies of the church , when you are in the posture of your greatest devotion . and the angel rebuked no less man than st. john , for using the posture of divine adoration to him . ( . ) in kneeling to a bishop to pray for us we suppose nothing that encroaches upon the divine excellencies ; for we are certain he hears and understands us , and we desire nothing from him , but what is in his power to do , and is very fitting for us to request from him . but when you pray to saints , you can have no possible assurance that they do or can hear what you say to them ; and so it is a foolish and unreasonable worship : and when you do it with the same external acts of devotion which you use to the divine majesty , you take away that peculiarity of divine worship which is due to god by reason of his incommunicable excellencies ; and so it is superstitious and idolatrous worship , these two wayes , ( . ) as it supposes as great excellencies in creatures as those did who for that reason were charged with idolatry . i do not meddle with the possibility of an intelligent being disunited from matter 's hearing at such a distance as the saints are supposed to be from us , nor whether god may not communicate such knowledge to them ; but that which i insist on is this , i find those charged with idolatry not only in scripture and the fathers , but by the church of rome it self , who professed to worship some inferiour spirits as mediators between god and men ; and such mediators as were never imagined to be mediators of redemption but barely of intercession , as being believed to carry up the prayers of men and to bring down help from above . now here is no omnisciency , or omnipotency , or other incommunicable excellency attributed to these spirits ; and all the addresses made to them was under the notion of mediators to intercede for them , i. e. to pray to them to pray for them ; and yet these were charged with flat idolatry . it were easie to make it appear from unquestionable testimonies , that the heathen idolaters did worship inferiour spirits only as mediators , ( as apuleius expresses it , inter caelicolas terricolasque vectores hinc preeum inde donorum , wherein he only interprets plato's sense ) and that this was one of the most common and universal kinds of idolatry ; and therefore i would fain know why they must be charged with idolatry , and you escape ? either be just to them , and vindicate the heathen worship , or else you must condemn your own . ( . ) t. g. confesses , that by the law of nature there ought to be some peculiar external acts appropriated to the worship of god as most agreeable to his incommunicable excellency : now among all mankind no one external act of worship hath been supposed more peculiar to the divine nature than solemn invocation in places and times appropriated to divine worship ; but the invocation practised in the roman church hath all the solemnity and circumstances of divine worship , and therefore it is robbing god of the peculiar acts of his worship which is idolatry . and he must be very dull indeed , who cannot distinguish this invocation from a casual or accidental meeting with a bishop at church and kissing the hem of his garment , or asking his benediction on ones knees . r. p. but where there are different objects in themselves , and a publick profession and consent that those acts are applyed to those objects upon different accounts ; it is intolerable impertinency to understand such acts as are in themselves equivocal in any other sense than the church declares , viz. as applyed to saints or images , the outward acts of worship , as bowing , kneeling , &c. are used only as tokens , or expressions of an inferiour respect and veneration . p. d. if this be all you have to say for your selves , the heathens must be excused from idolatry as well as you. for they acknowledged by common consent and publick profession a difference between the supreme god and inferiour spirits ; they allowed of different degrees of worship ; and without all question did not look on their emperours , as the supreme deity that made and governs the world ; and yet i hope the primitive christians were not guilty of intolerable impertinency in charging them with idolatry . but it seems the holy angel was guilty of the same intolerable impertinency in so rashly rebuking the apostle for falling down to worship him , for this was an equivocal act , and in all probability was intended only as a token of respect and veneration inferiour to what was thought due to god over all , blessed for evermore . but those acts of divine worship which by the law of god become due only to himself , can by no consent or declaration of a church be made lawful to be given to any creature , however they may call them acts of inferiour respect and veneration ; as long as they are of the same nature with those which were condemned both by the scripture and fathers as idolatrous worship . r. p. doth not dr. hammond say that naaman the syrian was excused from idolatry , because of the publick profession he made , that he intended not the worship to the idol , but to his master ? and will not the same plea hold for us who declare we do not give soveraign worship to any creatures , but only inferiour worship ? p. d. if naaman had desired leave to worship rimmon or saturn with an inferiour worship , declaring that he did not take saturn for the true and supreme god , but the god of israel ; and therefore he might apply the same act after a different manner , and the prophet had then bid him go in peace , you had some reason for your parallel . but as long as naamans question only related to the performing an act of civil worship to his prince in the house of rimmon , what colour can be hence taken for giving any kind of religious worship to saints or images in places and at times set apart for divine worship ? r. p. but monsieur daillé saith , that external signs whether of nature or religion are to be interpreted by the publick and common practice of those who use them , and not by the secret and particular intentions of this , or that person . p. d. and what then i beseech you ? monsieur daillé discourses against those who would use all the external acts of adoration of the host which others did , but with a different intention , and hoped this would excuse them from idolatry . now in this case he saith , that signs of religious worship , as uncovering the head , kneeling or prostrating the body at the sound of a little bell , and such other actions are the plain and ordinary signs of the adoration of the host ; and are so appointed by the church of rome , and so understood by those who generally practise it ; therefore , saith he , those who do use these outward signs are to be understood to give adoration to the host. from whence it follows , that men cannot comply with others in the acts of adoration of the host without hypocrisie or idolatry : which it was mons. daillé's design to prove . but what is all this to the proving that inferiour worship is not idolatry ? we desire that these signs of worship may be interpreted according to the common and publick practice of those who use them ; by which we say , it is as truly religious worship , as the nations used , which all christians do charge with idolatry . but if your meaning be , that your actions are to be interpreted in your own sense , it will come to this at last , that you are not guilty of idolatry , because you declare you are not guilty of it ; and whoever condemned themselves for it by publick declarations ? unless it were when they repented of it as a great sin , which i do not find you are yet willing to do . i pray remember this saying of daille's , when you think to justifie giving acts of divine worship to a creature , by your secret intention ; for he saith , and you seem to approve his saying , that such acts when they are of the nature of religious worship , are to be interpreted by the common and publick practice , and not by particular intentions ; if therefore the acts of worship be such , as by the scriptures , and sense of the primitive church belong only to god , no intention of yours of applying them after an inferiour manner can excuse you from giving adoration to a creature , especially , if they be such acts which god hath appropriated to himself , as the six mentioned by dr. st. for who dares alter what god himself hath appointed ? r. p. i think you are turning quaker , for this is their principle , do not they alledge christs precept against swearing , and then say who dares alter what god himself hath appointed ? p. d. i may as well fear you are renouncing christianity ; for what christian ever said or thought otherwise , than that it is not in the power of men to alter the laws of christ ? if christs precept were to be understood of all kind of swearing , do you really think it would be lawful to swear at all ? i am ashamed of this loose , not to say , profane way of talking about the obligation of divine laws . r. p. i only mentioned this by the by , to let you see what kind of principles the dr. makes use of to combate the church of rome . p. d. just such principles as all christians own ; and are bound so to do by their being christians . but do you think in earnest , that it is in the power of men to alter the laws of god ? r. p. no. but t. g. means , that there is now no law of god binding men concerning these external acts of worship , and therefore it is in the power of the church to appoint these as well as other rites and ceremonies , and to determine the signification of them . p. d. if this be his meaning , it is very ill expressed . but i say , that our saviour hath declared the immutable obligation of that law concerning applying all acts of religious worship only to god ; and that the vniversal church of christ in the first ages so understood it ; as appears not barely by their words , but by the greatest testimony of their actions : when such multitudes laid down their lives upon this principle . therefore i say again , you must call in question their title to martyrdom , or you must own this for a true christian principle . r. p. but we declare our meaning in those which dr. st. calls appropriate acts of divine worship , when we apply them to any creatures , to be only to use them as tokens of inferiour respect and veneration : as invocation , building of temples and altars , burning of incense , making of vows , &c. but that which god hath forbidden is , that we shall not use them to any besides himself , as tokens of that inward submission of our souls which is proper to him . p. d. did not you say , that the appropriation of these acts by the law of moses , being taken away by the ceasing of that law , they are now to be looked on as indifferent rites and ceremonies ? r. p. and what then ? p. d. did that law cease at the coming of christ , that those acts were to be used only to god as tokens of that inward submission which is proper to him ? r. p. no ; that doth never cease . p. d. but this you say was the sense in which god did appropriate them to himself ; and therefore the appropriation doth still continue . r. p. i suppose t. g.'s meaning is , that the appropriation before extended to them as tokens of inferiour respect and veneration , which law ceasing , it is now lawful to use them in that sense . p. d. then these acts under the law , were forbidden in that sense , whatsoever profession or declaration were made by those that used them . as suppose that the jews had invocated saints and angels in their temple or synagogues and worshipped images just as you do , and made the same professions of their meanings and intentions as your church doth ; this had been idolatry in them , but not in you . is this his meaning ? r. p. i suppose it must be . p. d. then inferiour religious worship was once idolatry , but it ceased to be so at the coming of christ. is not this a rare invention ? and by this means christ destroyed idolatry , not by rooting it out , but by making that not to be idolatry which was so before : and so he might take away all other sins by making those breaches of the other nine commandments not to be sins to christians which were so to the jews . but we have not only the express words of christ , making all religious worship of a creature unlawful , against this invention , but the doctrine of the apostles who charged the gentiles with idolatry without regarding this distinction , who were not under the law of moses ; and the consent of the christian church which judged this inferiour religious worship to be idolatry still . and if this be all you have to say , it is impossible to clear your selves from the charge of idolatry , notwithstanding all your meanings and intentions . r. p. i have one thing yet more to say , viz. that christ appropriates the titles of good , father , and master to god , and yet we apply them to men in a different sense , and why may we not do the same in equivocal acts of worship ? p. d. our saviour's design was to deter men from assuming or affecting such titles of excellency , superiority , or authority over others in teaching , as seemed to encroach too much on the divine perfections : but this holds much more against the pretence of infallibility in any person , than for the lawfulness of inferiour religious worship . for christ never forbids the common use of those titles among men , when they have no respect to divine matters ; no more than he doth the acts of civil worship in men towards magistrates or parents ; and thus far the parallel is good , as to words and actions : but as christ doth forbid the affectation of infallibility though of an inferiour sort under the titles of rabbi , father , and master ; so he doth likewise all inferiour sort of religious worship when he saith , thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve . and therefore the equivocation which lyes in mens power to determine , is not that of the degrees of religious worship , but of the acts of civil and religious worship . but if it be lawful to apply the signification of external acts of worship to higher or lower degrees , why may ye not do the same as to sacrifice , as well as invocation , &c. r. p. this is a scruple which hath troubled the doctours notions from the beginning ; but t. g. gives two answers to it . . that sacrifice in general is both by the custom of the church and the consent of all mankind ( as s. augustine teaches ) appropriated to signifie the absolute worship due only to god. . for the particular sacrifice of the body and blood of christ , the nature and dignity thereof requireth that it be offered to god alone . p. d. i am sorry to see you dissemble the force of the doctours argument , when you pretend to give an answer to it . for he saith , that s. augustine joyns adoration and sacrifice together , as appropriated to signifie the worship peculiar to god. how then , saith dr. st. comes s. augustines authority to be quitted for the one , and so greedily embraced for the other ? what doth t. g. answer to that ? r. p. i do not find he takes notice of s. augustine for any thing more than the consent of mankind about sacrifice . p. d. was it not wisely done ? and then to talk a great deal about the remainder of the doctours discourse , whether sacrifice of it self doth signifie absolute worship more than adoration , without taking notice that s. augustine joyned them together , though the church of rome separates them . and t. g. gives no manner of reason why the antecedent consent of mankind as to one of these should not prevail in your church as well as in the other : which is the main ground according to t. g. why sacrifice ought still to be appropriated to the peculiar worship of god. r. p. what advantage doth the doctor get , by insisting so much on that question , why sacrifice may not be offered to creatures as well as other external acts of worship , for he can only infer from thence that in such case the church of rome might possibly have no external act of worship appropriated to god , if she have none but sacrifice ; but whilest she hath no such custom de facto as offering sacrifice to saints and images , 't is manifest he cannot accuse them in that point of having no external act of worship proper to god , or of giving it to any besides him . p. d. it was to very good purpose that he insisted on that question , on these accounts . . because either it is in the power of the church to appoint appropriate acts of divine worship , or it is not . if it be in the churches power , then sacrifice may be as lawfully offered to the b. virgin , if the church think fit , as prayers and invocations , notwithstanding the general consent of mankind in appropriating sacrifice to god. if not , then there is some antecedent reason why some external acts of worship are appropriated to the absolute worship of god ; if so , then all such acts are appropriated where the same reason holds ; whether it be divine institution , or the consent of mankind in general , or of the fathers of the christian church : and consequently , though the church of rome may reserve sacrifice to god as peculiar to him , yet they may give other acts of divine worship to his creatures , which have the same reason to be appropriated which sacrifice it self hath . . because though in words they seem to appropriate sacrifice to god as a peculiar act of external worship , yet they do in effect overthrow it by these two assertions . ( . ) that its peculiarity is not as being an act of adoration , but upon another account as a significant ceremony of our total subjection to god. and this was that which dr. st. charged your divines with , that they reserve no one act of external adoration as proper to god ; and that they say , that sacrifice doth not naturally signifie any worship of god , but only by the imposition of men . so that your divines confess there is no natural act of divine worship , no external act of adoration which is reserved as peculiar to god ; but only an outward ceremony which doth not of it self signifie the worship of god , nor our subjection to him . but solemn prayers and praises do of themselves signifie our dependence on god , and therefore have an antecedent reason to the consent of mankind , why they should be appropriated to the worship of god. ( . ) that even sacrifice is allowed by the roman church to be offered for the honour of creatures : which dr. st. saith , is joyning creatures together with god in the honour of sacrifice : and if sacrifice be so appropriate to the honour of god that it cannot signifie any thing else , then it is nonsense to sacrifice to god for the honour of another ; if it may signifie any thing else , and be so used in the church of rome , then you do not reserve so much as sacrifice for an appropriate sign of the absolute worship of god. r. p. to what miserable shifts , saith t. g. are men put when they would have such trivial kind of arguing as this to pass for solid reasoning : and it must be a hard world when a man of the doctours abilities must be forced to feign that he doth not know how the same sacrifice may be a propitiation for sins and a thanksgiving for benefits , especially the sacrifice of the altar being the same with that of the cross , in which all the differences of the legal sacrifices were fulfilled . p. d. it is a hard world indeed , when such stuff as this must pass for answering . dr. st. never denyed that thanksgivings might be offered to god in the time of most solemn worship for the graces of his saints ; nor that the circumstances of divine worship might redound to their honour , as the primitive christians offering up their devotions to god at their sepulchres : but the question is , whether it be consistent with the appropriation of sacrifice to the honour of god , to offer it up for the honour of his creatures ; especially the sacrifice of the altar , i. e. the son of god , as a propitiatory sacrifice for the quick and the dead ? r. p. why may not we say , we offer this sacrifice to god in the honour of s. michael , to testifie our application of it in thanksgiving for the favours and graces bestowed on him ? p. d. i pray consider , ( . ) you say , that sacrifice in your church is appropriated to the honour of god ; ( . ) that sacrifice doth not signifie the worship of god of it self , but by institution or consent of mankind . ( . ) then the intention of sacrifice is to signifie that honour which is peculiar to god. now how can it signifie the honour due only to god , if it may signifie the honour due to his creatures ? r. p. is it not for the honour of a person to praise god for him ? and sacrificing being the offer of a present in token of gratitude , doth that diminish or add to the act of thanksgiving ? and if it be a greater declaration of thanksgiving , it must consequently be a greater declaration also of the honour of the person for whom it is offered . p. d. it is one thing to make the graces of saints an occasion of thanksgiving to god , and another to offer up a sacrifice for the honour of the saints , as it is expressed in the offertory . in the former case there is no question but the honour is designed wholly to god as the giver of those graces , although a consequential honour doth redound thereby to the saints themselves ; but in the latter case the intended and designed honour of the very act it self is declared to be to the saints as well as to god himself . if a courtier gives the king solemn thanks for great kindness shewed to one of his subjects , the honour of the action belongs wholly to the king , although occasionally and consequentially it redound to the reputation of the person for whom it is done : but if a courtier on new years day should make a present to the king upon his knees , and say , i offer this new years gift to your majesty in honour of your majesty and of the groom of your stole , or chamberlain of your houshold , &c. how do you think this would be taken at court ? and yet this is just the form of the offertory in your missal . we make this oblation to thee o holy trinity , and for the honour of the blessed virgin and all saints ; can any one say that this is not the designed and intended honour which belongs to the act it self , and not meerly that which is occasional and consequential ? if those who offered cakes to the b. virgin , had said , we offer these cakes to the honour of the blessed trinity and the virgin mary , had not this been joyning them together in the honour of those oblations ? and is it not the same case here ? besides , you are guilty of a greater absurdity , for those might be only eucharistical oblations , but in your sacrifice of the mass , you pretend to make a present you say to god ; but what is it ? nothing less than his own son ; if your doctrine be true . and for what end ? to be a propitiatory sacrifice for the quick and the dead . and is this indeed the present you make to almighty god in honour of his saints ? i cannot with patience think of the absurdities which follow from hence . for how came you to make a present to god of his own son ? when we make a present to any one , it is understood to be of something in our power to bestow , and which we are willing to part with , for his sake to whom we offer it . do you indeed in this sense make a present of the son of god to the father ? have you the power of bestowing him in your hands ? and are you willing to part with your whole right and interest in him ? you are excellent christians the mean while . nay , no sacrifice was truly and properly offered by any person , wherein he did not abandon his right in that which was sacrificed . and therefore you see upon what terms , you make such a present to god by a proper sacrifice of his son to him . but suppose the son of god were to be made a true and proper sacrifice for sins on the altar , how comes it into your hands to offer him up to the father , since the great sacrifice of propitiation was not to be offered by any ordinary priests , but by the high-priest himself , who was to carry the blood into the holy of holies , and there to make intercession for the people ? are you the high-priests of the gospel to offer unto god the great sacrifice of atonement ? is not the great high-priest of our profession entred within the vail , and is there making intercession by vertue of his sacrifice on the cross ? what need then of your offering him up again for propitiation , who offered himself once on the cross for a full , perfect , and sufficient sacrifice , oblation and satisfaction for the sins of the whole world ? we have all the reason in the world to commemorate with great thankfulness and devotion that invaluable sacrifice of the cross , and if you will call the whole eucharistical office a commemorative sacrifice as the ancients did , i shall never quarrel with you about it . but how the sacrifice of the mass comes to be propitiatory as the sacrifice on the cross was , i understand not ; nor how it should be the same with the sacrifice of the cross , and yet of so much less value than it , the one being said by you to be infinite and the other finite ; nor how the destruction of his sacramental and of his natural being should be the same thing ; nor how this sacrifice should be propitiatory only for one sort of sins and not for another ; nor how the son of god can be made a true and proper sacrifice for sin under the species of bread and wine ; nor , what consumptive change that is in him , which according to your selves is necessary to make him such a sacrifice . is he slain again in the mass ? if he be , i can tell who is the judas that betrays him , and who are the jews that crucifie him . if not , how comes a propitiatory sacrifice without shedding of blood ? if the consumptive change be only in the elements , then the elements are sacrificed , and not christ. if it be only a sacramental change , what is that to a sacrifice of propitiation ? and suppose all the other absurdities to be removed , and that the sacrifice of the mass is a true , real , proper and propitiatory sacrifice of the son of god body and soul upon the altar , yet how at last comes this to be giving god thanks for the graces of his saints ? i thought such a sacrifice had been much rather for the expiation of their sins . r. p. i pray sir forbear ; i have no longer patience to hear you talk at this rate against the sacrifice of the mass ; for if you destroy that , we are all undone . methinks as t. g. saith , dr. st.'s arguments against it , might have been expected from the pen of a crellius . p. d. of a crellius ? why so i pray ? he wrote against christs propitiatory sacrifice on the cross ; and as i remember , dr. st. hath answered his arguments ; how comes he then , of all men , to argue like crellius ? r. p. because his reasons against the sacrifice of the mass will hold against that of the cross. p. d. that would be strange ; but let us hear them first and then judge . r. p. why , he looks upon it , as a monstrous absurdity for us to pretend , first to make our god with speaking five words , then to offer up god himself unto god as a sacrifice and consequently to suppose him destroyed , and this all to testifie our submission to god. p. d. and do not you think these horrible absurdities , and such as can never enter into any mans head that is not first resolved to part with his understanding ? r. p. and do not you think these expressions highly injurious to that inestimable sacrifice which christ himself offered upon the cross ? p. d. not at all . for , do we believe , that the jews made an ordinary man to be the eternal son of god by speaking five words over him ? and that the jews then slew him and offered up god , as a sacrifice to god for the expiation of sins ; and all this , as an act of gratitude to god for the graces of his saints ? if not , what colour or pretence is there , that the laying open the absurdity of your sacrifice of the mass , should derogate from the sacrifice of the cross ? r. p. were not the jews scandalized at that most in the sacrifice of the cross , viz. the offering of god to god ? p. d. a crucified saviour , or a suffering messias , was to the jews a stumbling-block , and to the greeks foolishness . but what do you mean by the offering up of god to god , do you think the divinity was the sacrifice ? or the blood of christ , which he being the eternal son of god did offer up to his father , as a propitiation for the sins of mankind ? r. p. might not he be said , to offer up god himself to god as a sacrifice ? p. d. then you must make the divinity the sacrifice ; and how can that be a sacrifice which is capable of no change ? but suppose christ as god and man be said to offer up at least a divine sacrifice ; what is all this to your offering up the son of god as a sacrifice to god for the sins of the world ? r. p. might not those , as t. g. saith , who were at the foot of the cross , offer up the son of god on the cross to the father ? p. d. this is a piece of new divinity ; and far enough i dare say from arguing like crellius . who ever thought , that the jews had the same power to offer up the blood of christ as a propitiatory sacrifice , which himself had who had power over his own life ? if t. g. argues at this rate , none would imagine he hath ever considered the nature of christs sacrifice , since he talks so unskilfully about these matters . r. p. but what doth dr. st. talk of our making and destroying god in the mass , since we believe that the same christ who is in heaven is whole under either species ; and his blood to be separated from his body not really , but mystically only and in representation . p. d. do you believe a true , proper propitiatory sacrifice in the mass , or not ? r. p. do not you know the council of trent hath expresly defined it , and anathematized all those who say the contrary ? p. d. is there any true , proper propitiatory sacrifice , where there is not a consumptive change of that which is sacrificed ? and what is that which is sacrificed in the mass ? not the elements , but christ under them , you say ; if christ be the sacrifice he must be slain again at every mass , as he was once on the cross ; or you can assign no destruction , which you say is necessary to such a true and proper sacrifice . r. p. do not you observe t. g.'s words , that christ is whole under either species , and his blood separated from his body not really , but mystically only , and in representation ? p. d. how is that ? whole christ under the bread , and whole christ under the wine ; and the blood separated from the body not really , but mystically only , and by representation . this is admirable stuff , and true mystical divinity . if the body of christ doth remain whole and entire , where is the true proper sacrifice ? where is the change made , if not in the body of christ ? if that be uncapable of a change , how can it be a true and proper sacrifice ? if the blood be not really separated from the body , where is the mactation , which must be in a propitiatory sacrifice ? if christ do remain whole and entire after all the sacrificial acts , where i say is the true and proper sacrifice ? t. g. had far better said , and more agreeably to scripture , antiquity , and reason , that there is no real and proper sacrifice on the altar , but only mystical and by representation . r. p. but t. g. saith , that religion which admits no external visible sacrifice , must needs be deficient in the most signal part of the publick worship of god. p. d. i pray remember , it is an external and visible sacrifice which you contend for , and now tell me where it is in your church . doth it lye in the mimical gestures of the priest at the altar in imitation of christ on the cross ? if that be it , the necessary consumption of the sacrifice will be no comfortable doctrine to the priest. doth it lye in the consecration of the elements which are visible ? but you say , the essence of the sacrifice consists in the change ; and we can see no visible change made in them , and therefore there is no external and visible sacrifice . besides , if the sacrifice did lye in the change of the elements after consecration into the body of christ , then the elements are the thing sacrificed and not the body of christ , for the destructive change is as to the elements , and not as to the body of christ. or doth it lye in the swallowing down , and consumption of the species after consecration by the priest ? but here likewise the change is in the accidents and not in the body of christ , which remains whole and entire though the species be consumed ; and i think there is some difference between changing ones seat and being sacrificed . for all that the body of christ is pretended to be changed in , is only its being no longer under the species , but t. g. i suppose will allow it to be whole and entire still . doth it then lye in pronouncing the words of consecration upon which the body of christ is under the species of bread , and the blood under that of wine , and so separated from the body ? but this can least of all be , since t. g. assures us that whole christ is under the bread as well as under the wine ; and so there cannot be so much as a moment of real separation between them ; and we know how necessary for other purposes the doctrine of concomitancy is . tell me then where is your external and visible sacrifice which you boast so much of ; since according to your own principles there is nothing that belongs to the essence of a sacrifice is external and visible , and consequently your own church labours under the defect t. g. complains of . r. p. but what makes dr. st. so bitter against the sacrifice of the altar , since the most true and genuine sons of the church of england do allow it ; as mr. thorndike , dr. heylin , and bishop andrews ? and doth not this rather look like betraying the church of england than defending it ? p. d. i see now you are wheeling about to your first post , and therefore it is time to give you a space of breathing . your great business is to set us at variance among our selves , but you have hitherto failed in your attempts , and i hope will do . i do not think any two or three men , though never so learned make the church of england ; her sense is to be seen in the publick acts and offices belonging to it . and in the articles to which t. g. sometimes appeals , your sacrifices on the altar are called blasphemous figments , and dangerous impostures . but as to these three persons i answer thus ; . mr. thorndike , as i have shewed already , declares against the true proper sacrifice defined by the council of trent as an innovation and a contradiction . and that which he pleads for , is , that the eucharist is a commemorative and representative sacrifice , about which dr. st. would never contend with him or any one else : and immediately after the words cited by t. g. he adds these ; it is therefore enough , that the eucharist is the sacrifice of christ on the cross , as the sacrifice of christ on the cross is represented , renewed , revived , and restored by it , and as every representation is said to be the same thing with that which it representeth . . pet. heylins words are expresly only for a commemorative sacrifice , as t. g. himself produces them ; and therefore i wonder what t. g. meant in citing them at large : for he quotes the english liturgie for the sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving ; and s. chrysostom calling it the remembrance of a sacrifice ; and many of our learned writers , a commemorative sacrifice . what is there in all this in the least repugnant to what dr. st. had delivered ? r. p. but he quotes bishop andrews , saying , take from the mass your transubstantiation , and we will have no difference with you about the sacrfiice . p. d. bishop andrews calls the eucharist a commemorative sacrifice , and he saith , it was properly eucharistical , or of the nature of peace-offerings , concerning which the law was , that he that offered should partake of them ; and a little after follow those words you mention : to which he adds , we yield you that there is a remembrance of christs sacrifice ; but we shall never yield that your christ being made of bread is there sacrificed . which is the very thing , that t. g. is so angry with dr. st. about . and have not you bravely proved that dr. st. hath herein gone against the sense of the genuine sons of the church of england ? if you have any thing yet left which you think material i pray let us have it now , for fear lest t. g. make use of it to stuff out another book . r. p. i think we are near the bottom . p. d. so i imagine by the dregs which came last . r. p. there is one thing yet left for a close : which is , dr. st. saith , supposing this sacrifice were allowed , yet this doth not prove that we reserve any external act of worship belonging to all christians , because this sacrifice belongs to the priests only to offer . p. d. and what answer doth t. g. give to that ? r. p. he saith , that nothing is more notorious than that those of the church of rome , are bound on every sunday and holy day to hear mass. p. d. to hear mass ! a very christian duty no doubt , especially if they understand never a word of it , and as diana saith , a man is not bound to hear a word that is said : but what then ? r. p. by this external act , he saith , they testifie the uniting their intention with the priest as the publick officer of the church in the oblation of the sacrifice . p. d. i have often heard of the skill you have of directing intentions , but i never knew of this knack of uniting intentions before . i know how necessary the priests intention is in your church , but what if the people should fail of uniting their intention with his , ( as they often think and talk of other things at hearing mass ) would it not be a sacrifice without the vnion of their intentions ? suppose the priests intention should wander , what would the peoples uniting their intentions signifie towards the sacrifice ? you will not say , they have any power to offer the sacrifice ; therefore the act of sacrificing belongs only to the priest , whether the peoples intentions be united or not . if the people first offered that which was to be sacrificed , to the priest , and then he sacrificed it in their name ( as among the jews ) they might be said to have a share in the sacrifice ; but when the sacrifice is supposed to come down from heaven upon the priests words , and he doth not represent the people but christ in the act of sacrificing , what doth the peoples uniting their intentions signifie to the sacrifice ? i pray tell me in whose name doth the priest pretend to the power of offering up the body of christ in sacrifice on the altar , the peoples , or christs ? r. p. in the name of christ doubtless , for the people have no power to do it . p. d. if they have no power to do it , and all the authority be supposed to be derived from christ for doing it , what doth the uniting the peoples intentions with the priests signifie as to the offering up the sacrifice ? you might as well say , that the jews under the cross might unite their intentions to christs in offering himself on the cross to the father , and so it might become their act as well as christ's . but in my mind your phrase of hearing and seeing mass is much more proper ( if men were bound either to hear or see , which your casuists say , they are not ) than this of uniting their intentions with the priest , which is absurd and ridiculous . doth t. g. so little consider the honour of the priestly office as to talk of the peoples uniting their intentions with the priests in the oblation of the sacrifice ? the next step may be , that the sacrificing may depend on the peoples intentions as well as the priests ; and what a case are you in then ? aquinas and cajetan were much wiser than t. g. in this matter , for they both declare that this sacrifice belongs only to the priests and not to the people ; as dr. st. told t. g. r. p. t. g. saith , he cannot find the citation in the place quoted by him ; but he dares affirm that cajetan was not so silly a divine as to deny it to belong to the people to offer the sacrifice by and with the priest. p. d. and i dare affirm cajetan was much wiser than to say , that the offering the sacrifice did in any sense belong to the people ; and so much t. g. might have found in the place cited by the doctour , only qu. . was put for q. . and not as cajetans bare opinion , but as the judgement of aquinas too . he saith indeed , that the priests do offer the sacrifice for themselves and others ; but he was not so silly to imagine that they were to unite their intentions with the priests in the oblation ; but that expression only shews for whose sake and not in whose name the sacrifice was offered . for there are other sacrifices , saith he , which every one may offer for himself , and those , saith cajetan , are spiritual sacrifices of devotion and vertue ; but for the sacrifice of the altar , that belongs only to the priests and officers of the church . r. p. but the very mass-book calls it meum ac vestrum sacrificium ; and desires god to accept it for all those pro quibus tibi offerimus , vel qui tibi offerunt hoc sacrificium . p. d. i will tell you the mysterie of this business , and so put an end to this long conference . it was the ancient custom of the roman church as well as others for the communicants to make an oblation of the bread and wine at the altar , of which they were afterwards to partake . this i prove from the sacramentary of s. gregory published by pamelius , where it is said , while the offertory is singing ; i. e. the anthem then used , the oblations are made by the people and laid upon the altar that they might be consecrated . and the ordo romanus declares these oblations to be the bread and wine : of which , it adds , that the arch-deacon took as much and laid upon the altar , as would serve for the people that were to communicate . these oblations continued in the church a long time , and were inforced by canons and constitutions when the people began to slacken in their devotion . upon which the church of rome thought fit to bring in the use of wafers instead of common bread , and so these oblations grew into disuse , or were turned into offerings of money instead of them . sirmondus and card. bona have proved beyond all dispute , that the ancient latin church did use common and leavened bread in the eucharist that was offered by the people till a thousand years after christ. but then the doctrine of transubstantiation coming into the roman church , it was no longer thought fit that the bread which was to be turned into the son of god should be made after a common manner , or with the unsanctified hands of the laity , but by those who did attend upon the altar : remembring what the good woman told gregory i. that she wondred that the bread which she made with her own hands should be called the body of jesus christ ; which the people had more reason to do , when they came to define the manner of the presence , as they did about this time ; although it were not made an article of faith till afterwards . from hence the dispute began between the greeks and latins about unleavened bread ; and from henceforward the custom of oblations for the service of the altar declined and is only kept up on some particular solemnities , as canonization of saints , inauguration of princes , consecration of bishops , marriages and funerals ; however the same form of words continues still in the offices , as if the oblations of bread and wine were still made by the people ; and so sirmondus and bona both say those expressions of the mass-book , you mention , are to be understood of these oblations of the people , and not of the sacrifice of christs body . and that these oblations were called sacrifices appears by the known passages of s. cyprian , locuples & dives es & dominicum celebrare te credis , quae in dominicum sine sacrificio venis , quae partem de sacrificio quod pauper obtulit sumis ? in which he blames the rich women that came without an oblation , which he calls a sacrifice , and did partake of that which the poor offered ; which s. augustin calls de aliena oblatione communicare ; and therefore he bids all communicants to make their own oblations at the altar . but suppose these expressions were not to be understood of the oblations of the people ( as it is certain the prayers called secretae and the first part of the canon of the mass are ) yet it was not fairly done of t. g. to leave out a very significant word which immediately followed , viz. laudis , qui tibi offerunt hoc sacrificium laudis . if the people be allowed their share in the eucharistical sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving , what is this to their offering up the proper propitiatory sacrifice of the body of christ ? i do not deny that the people had a share in the sacrifice according to the sense of antiquity ; not only from their oblations , but because as cassander well observes , the ancients did call the whole eucharistical office , as it took in the peoples part as well as the priests , by the name of a sacrifice ; and so the oblations , prayers , thanksgivings , consecration , commemoration , distribution , participation did all belong to the sacrifice . but since you restrain the true and proper sacrifice to the oblation of the body of christ to god by the priest , dr. st. had reason to say , that the sacrifice among you belongs to the priests , and is not an external act of worship common to all . and so according to the sense you put on the mass-book , you leave no one act of peculiar external worship appropriated to god which is to be performed by all christians ; which was the thing to be proved . the end . books printed for , and sold by henry mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , and at the white hart in westminster-hall . a rational account of the grounds of protestant religion ; being a vindication of the lord-archbishop of canterbury's relation of a conference , &c. from the pretended answer of t. c. folio . sermons preached upon several occasions , with a discourse annexed concerning the true reasons of the sufferings of christ , wherein crellius's answer to grotius is considered . folio . irenicum : a weapon-salve for the churches wounds : in quarto . origines sacrae : or , a rational account of the grounds of christian faith , as to the truth and divine authority of the scriptures , and matters therein contained , quarto . a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it , in answer to some papers of a revolred protestant , wherein a particular account is given of the fanaticisms and divisions of that church , octavo . an answer to several late treatises occasioned by a book entituled , a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it , the first part , octovo . a second discourse in vindication of the protestant grounds of faith , against the pretence of infallibility in the roman church , in answer to the guide in controversie , by r. h. protestancy without principles , and reason and religion ; or the certain rule of faith , by e. w. with a particular enquiry into the miracles of the roman church , octavo . an answer to mr. cressey's epistle apologetical to a person of honour , touching his vindication of dr. stillingfleet , octavo . a defence of the discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , in answer to a book entituled , catholicks no idolaters ; all written by edward stillingfleet , d. d. dean of st. pauls , and chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . the rule of faith ; or , an answer to the treatise of mr. i. s. entituled , sure footing , &c. by john tillotson , d. d. preacher to the honourable society of lincolns-inn . to which is adjoyned a reply to mr. i. s. his third appendix , &c. by edw. stillingfleet , d. d. dean of st. pauls , and chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . the antiquities of nottinghamshire , extracted out of records , original evidences , lieger books , other manuscripts , and authentick authorities , beautified with maps , prospects and portraictures , by robert thoroton , dr. of physick , folio . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e dial p. . p. . cath. no idol . p. . dial. p. . preface to cath. no idol . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . cypr. anglic . p . ed. p. ● . necessary introd to the history of b. laud. p. . conference with fisher. p. . history of his tryal . p. . cypr. angl. p. · dial. p. . dial. p. . cypr. angl. p. . dial. p. . hincmar . de praedest . c. . lanfranc . de corp. & sang. christ. c. . guitm . de sacr . l. . cajet . in aquin. . p. q. . art . . & . & ● . aq. . dist . . q. . ar . . conink de sacr . qu. . art . . maerat . de sacr . disp . . sect . . lugo de sacram. disp . . §. . suarez in . p. disp . . art . ▪ §. . gamach . i● . p. qu. . c. . ysambert . qu. . disp . . art . . vasq. in . p. disp . . c. . art . . p. . dial. p. , . cypr. angl. p. . ed. p. . dial. p. . to . laws of the ch. ch. . p. . dial. p. . &c. cypr. angl. p. . cypr. angl. p. . dial. p. , , &c. dial. p. ● ▪ dial. p. . prodr . p. . b. andrews resp. ad apolog. bell. p. . compared with bur●●il . de●ens . respons . ad apolog. c. . q. . b. sanders . preface to his serm. §. . de obligat . cons. prael . . §. . dial. p. , &c. p. . dial. p. . p. . p. . dial. p. , , . dial. p. , . p. . defence p. . notes for div a -e joh. rosin . vit . ●●ed . sapient . dial. p. , &c. dial. p. . dial. p. , . pontificale rom. de ordinat . presbyt . concil . trident. sess. . c. . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. p. . p. . scot. in s●nt . l. . dist . . q. . biel. in s●nt . q. . cajet . in . p. q. . art . . morin . de ordin . part . . exercit. . c. . ● . . alex. al. . p. q. . memb . . art . . §. . ad . scot. in . dist . . q. . resp . ad . morin . ib. exerc . . c. . n. , . grat. . q. . post can . . gul. pa●is . de sacr. ord. c. . morin . de ord. sacr. p. . ex . . c. . n. . conc. trid. sess . . can . . s. hier. de script . eccles . in fortunat . in chronico . libel . precum , p. . baron . a d. . n. . pet. dam. gom. opuse , . c. . libel . prec . p. . subscribentes in illâ fide arianorum , quam integro & libero judicio damnaverant . advertit sapientia vestra , ariminensem synodum , piissimè coeptam , sed impiissimè terminatam . dial. p. , . dial. p. . dial. p. , . b. sanderson gen. . . n. . dial. p. , . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . ire● . p. . p. . iren. p. . answer to several treat . part . from p. ● , to ● . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. defence , p. , &c. dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. from p. . to p. . dial. p. . dial. from p. . to . p. , . p. . defence , from p. . to p. . (*) from p. . to p. . (†) from p. . to p. . (*) from p. . to p. . (†) from p. . to p. . dial. p. , . dial. p. . dial. p. . defence p. , &c. from p. . to p. . from p. . to p. . from p. . to p. . notes for div a -e dial. p. , , . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. * p. . to p. . † defence , p. , &c. p. , &c. * p. , &c. † p. . to p. . * p. . to p. . † p. , &c. * p. . to p. . † p. . to p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . to . dial. p. . speech in star-chamber , p. , . canterbury's tryal , p. . defence , p. , &c. defence , p. , &c. from p. . to p. . from p. . to p. . dial. p. . prodr●m . p. . dial. p. . defence from p. , to p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. * defence , p. . p. . † from p. . to p. . p. , &c. defence , p. , , , . p. . dial. p. . defence , p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . defence , p. . dial. p. . defence , p. . defence , p. . defence , p. , &c. dial. p. . dial. p. . defence p. . defence p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . defence p. . rat. acc. p. , . arist. anal. post. l. . c. . n. , , . metaph. l. . c. . l. . c. . philop. in analyt . l. . p. . * metaph. l. . c. . themist . in analyt . post. l. . 〈…〉 . l. . c. . n. . arrian . l. . c. . galen . de hippocr . & plat. decret . l. . rat. acc. p. , . dial. ● . . p. . origines sacrae l. . & . dial. p. . * defence from p. ● . to . * defence , from p. . to p. . † defence , from p. . to p. . * defence , from p. . to p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. dial. from p. . to p. . defence , p. . p. . dial. p. . defence , p. , . dial. p. , , . defence , p. . dial. p. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. defence , p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. dial. p. . dial. p. , . defence , p. , , . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . defence , p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . greg. naz. ep. . theod. dial. . greg. nyss. in vit . greg. p. . niceph. callist . l. . c. . defence p. , to . defence , p. . to . cassand . ep. . op. p. . greg. nyssen orat. in theod. p. . defence , p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . d. forbes consid. modest . & pacif . p. . p. . concil . laodic . c. . theod. in col. . . t. g. cathol . no idol . p. . defence , p. . to p. . bell. de bonis oper . in particul . l. . c. . greg. nyssen orat . . de orat . orat . . de orat . dom. tract . . de inscript . psalm c. . ambros. de obit . theod. chrysost. in cor. hom. . in coloss. . hom. . aug. confess● . l. . c. ● . clem. ●●rom . l. . tirtul . apol . c. . orig. l. . in epist. ad rom. c. . defence , p. . dial. p. . 〈◊〉 l. . p. . dial. p. . defence , p. . dial. p. . defence , p. . to p. . p. . defence , p. . def. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . notes for div a -e dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . syn. chron. p. . aug. c. cre●● . l. . c. , . dial. p. ● . p. . p. . defence , p. . p. , . defence , , &c. pausan. in arcad. euseb. chron. p. . isid. orig. l. . aug. de civ . dei l. . c. . lact. l. . c. . aug. de civ . dei l. . c. , ▪ rom. . . defence ▪ p. , . defence from p. . to p. . dial. from p. . to p. . c. gentes l. . c. . dial. p. . p. , &c. p. , &c. p. . def. p. . defence p. . defence p. , &c. dial. p. ● . dial. p. . defence p. . def. p. . athenag . leg . pro christian. p. , . dial. p. , , . legat. p. . athen. p. . p. . athen. p. . cath. no idol . p. , . dial. p. . tertul. de spect . c. . ad s●ap . c. . de spect . c. . apol. c. . apolog. c. . dial. p. . apolog. c. . dial p. , &c. defence p. . dial. p. . defence p. . dial. p. . defence p. . p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. ● , &c. dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , . defence , p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . defence , . to p. . de civ . dei l. . c. . c. . defence , p. , &c. euseb. praep. l. . c. . dial. p. . dial. p. . minuc . p. . dial. p. . hier. in is. . l. . dial. p. . defence p. . p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , . dial. p. , to . dial. p. , . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . de civil . dei , l. . c. . de civit. dei , l. . c. . l. . c. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . defence p. , to . * defence p. . † p. . * p. . † p. , . * p. . † p. . * p. . dial. p. , . lact. l. . c. , . c. , . l. . c. . defence , p. . p. . defence ▪ p. . dial. p. , , , . voss. de idolol . l. . c. . dial. p. . aqu. c. gentes l. . c. . cathol . no idol . p. , &c. dial. p. , . cath. no idol . p. . defence ; p. , . dial. p. . p. . p. . dr. st. defence p. , . aug. de civit. dei , l. . c. . oros. l. ● . c. . cypr. op . p. . ed. goulant . aug. c. faust. l. 〈◊〉 c. . dial. p. . , . defence , p. , &c. p. , &c. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . mat. . . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . defence , p. , &c. dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . defence , p. , to . dial. p. . defence , p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . p. . dial. p. , &c. dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. p. . dial. p. , &c. dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p , . dial. p , , &c. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , . defence , p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . defence , p. . p. . defence , p. , . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . sess. . c. . . can . . . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. articl . . p. , . laws of the church . p. . heylins introd . n. . ad bell. apol. resp. p. . dial. p. . dian. sum. p. . dial. p. . defence , p. . dial. p. . cajet . . . qu. . art . . liturg. lat. ● . . p. . cassandr . liturg. c. . concil . matis . c. . capit. car. m. l. . c. . sirmond . de azym . c. . bona de r●bus liturg. l. . c. . §. . joh. diac. in vit . greg. c. . sirm. de azy . c. . bona de reb . liturg. l. . c. . §. . cypr. de opere & eleemosyn . aug. serm. . de temp . cassand . consult . de sacrif . corp. & sang. christi . a reply to mr. j.s. his d. appendix containing some animadversions on the book entituled, a rational account of the grounds of protestant religion. by ed. stillingfleet b.d. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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[ ], , [ ] p. printed by r.w. for henry mortlock at the sign of the phœnix in st. paul's church-yard near the little north-door, london : . a reply to: sergeant, john. sure-footing in christianity. reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng sergeant, john, - . -- sure-footing in christianity. catholic church -- controversial literature -- early works to . protestantism -- apologetic works -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a reply to mr. j. s. his d. appendix , containing some animadversions on the book entituled , a rational account of the grounds of protestant religion . by ed. stillingfleet b. d. london , printed by r. w. for henry mortlock at the sign of the phoenix in st. pauls church-yard near the little north-door . . an appendix to the rule of faith . to his honoured friend mr. john tillotson . sir , as soon as i understood your intentions to answer mr. serjeant , i could not but rejoyce on his behalf , as well as on the truths and your own . for i have that real kindness for him , that i heartily wish him that reason and science he pretends to ; which i could not but despair of his attaining , unless he were undeceived in that monstrous opinion he hath of himself and his undertakings . and i knew no person more fit then you , to let him understand the tr̄uth and himself together . in which , your performances have been so clear and satisfactory , that i hope mr. serjeant in stead of another letter of directions to his answerer , will write you one of thanks , for the reason and kindness you have shewed him throughout your book . unless it fares with you , as it hath done with some other adversaries of theirs , that their civility hath been interpreted as an argument of their uncertainty , and their own confidence cried up for a demonstration . in which sense only i shall grant our protestant writer● to build on uncertainties , and mr. white and mr. serjeant to be the great demonstrators of this age . if their own reason had been as severe as the censures at rome against them , they had saved us the labour of any answer , and would have found out their own sophistry without a confutation . but the least thing we can imagine by their excessive confidence , is , that they are deceived themselves ; and therefore i● is a part of charity to them as well a● justice to the truth , to let the world ●e , that big words are quite another ●ing from science , and a strong pre●mption from a regular demonstra●on . as to which , no more need to ●ve been said , than what you have al●ady done , if mr. serjeant had not ●ought it an accession to the glory of ●s atchievements , to lead two pages ●f my book in triumph after him . i ●nfess i was somewhat surprised to see person who would be noted for his ●lour in assaulting protestant writers , ●eal so behind the main bulk and design ●f my book , and when he had gotten ●o single pages by themselves , fall ●pon them with as much pomp and ●tentation , as if he had attacqu'd the ●hole . and this must be noised abroad an answer to me , by the same figure ●at his arguments are called demon●rations , which is by an hyperbole un● for any , but such who never flag be●w the sphere of science in their own ●dgements , though they seem not to ●ome near it in others . yet since ●r . serjeant is not only pleased to ●ncern himself so far as to answer that ●rt of my book relating to oral tradition , but in most express terms t● challenge me to reply to him , he ma● now see ( assoon as i could get any liberty from greater imployments ) ho● ready i am to give him all reasonabl● satisfaction . and in the first place return him thanks for the weapon h● hath made choice of , viz. that of re●son ; there being no other , i desire t● make use of in managing this deba● between us : and i hope he will find much civility towards him througho● this discourse , as he exptesses towar● me in the entrance to his ; if that m● be accounted any real civility which intended meerly out of design wi● the greater advantage to disparage t● cause i have undertaken , and yet ● no reason to repent of . if in his curs● view of two chapters of my book he h● ( as he saith ) quite lost me , he had no ca● to be troubled for it , if he had fou● far more excellent persons , such dr. hammond , and the dissuader , a● dr. pierce instead of me . but to sure he intends not this in honour any of us , but by way of a comm● reproach to us all , as though we did talk out of nature or things , but wo● and imagination . i could heartily have wished mr. s. would have cropt so much of the victory due to anothers learning and industry , as to have shewed me one proposition in those discourses , which a rational understanding that would be true to it self , could not settle or rely on ; but if such insinuations as these must pass for answers , i must needs say , i judge mr. s. equally happy in confuting our grounds , and in demonstrating his own ; in both which , his greatest strength lies in the self-evidence of his bare affirmations . but it seems he is willing to resign the glory of this victory to the judicious author of labyrinthus cantuariensis , or to some others for him ; and when they have once obtained it , i shall not envy them the honour of it . and i suppose those persons , whoever they are , may be able by this time , to tell mr. s. it is an easier matter to talk of victories than to get them . but if they do no more in the whole , than mr. s. hath done for his share , they will triumph nowhere , but where they conquer , viz. in their own fancies and imaginations . therefore leaving them to their silent conquests , and as yet , unheard of victories , we come to mr. s. who so liberally proclaims his own in the point of oral tradition . which ( in a phrase scarce heard of in our language before ) is the post , he tells us , he hath taken upon him to explicate further and defend . what the explicating a post means , i as little understand , as i do the force of his demonstrations ; but this , and many other such uncouth forms of speech , up and down in his book , ( which make his style so smooth and easie ) are i suppose intended for embellishments of our tongue , and as helps to sure-speaking , as his whole book is designed for sure-footing . but letting him enjoy the pleasure and felicity of his own , expressions , i come to consider the matter in debate between us . and his first controversie with me , is , for opposing the infallibility of oral tradition , to doctrinal infallibility in pope and councils . a controversie fitter to be debated among themselves , than between him and me : for is any thing more notorious , than that infallibility is by the far greatest part of romanists attributed to the present church in teaching and delivering matters of faith , not by vertue of any oral tradition , but the immediate assistance of the holy ghost : and that this is made by them the only ground of divine faith ? for which mr. s. may if he please , consult his judicious author of labyrinthus cantuariensis , or any other of their present writers , except mr. white and himself . he need not therefore have been to seek for the meaning of this doctrinal infallibility as opposed to traditionary , if he had not either been ignorant of the opinion of their own writers , or notoriously dissembled it . for this infallibility is not attributed to the rulers of the church , meerly as doctors or scholars , but as the representative church whose office it is to deliver all matters of faith by way of an infallible testimony to every age , and thereby to afford a sufficient foundation for divine faith . but mr. s. attributes no such infallibility to the representative church , as teaching the rest , but derives their infallibility from such grounds as are common to all parts of the essential church . wherein he apparently opposes himself to the whole current of their own authors , whe resolve all faith into the immediate assistance of the holy ghost , without which they assert there could be no infallibility at all in tradition or any thing else ; and therefore these opinions are as opposite to each other as may be . for such an infallibility is not attributed by them to the teachers of the church , meerly on some signal occasions , as mr. s. seems to suppose , when they are to explain new matters of faith ; but it is made by them to be as necessary as believing it self , because thereby the only sure foundation of faith is laid , and therefore it is very evident they make it proper to the church in all ages : or else in some age of the church men were destitute of sufficient grounds of faith . for they by no means think it a sufficient foundation for faith , that one age of the church could not conspire to deceive another ; for this they will tell him at most is but a humane faith ; but that christ by his promise hath assured the church that there shall never be wanting in it the infallible assistance of his holy spirit , whereby they shall infallibly teach & deliver all matters of faith . and if this be not their opinion , let them speak to the contrary , which if they do , i am sure they must retract their most elaborate discourses about the resolution of faith written by the greatest artists among them . let mr. s. then judge who it is that stumbles at the threshold : but of this difference among them more afterwards . by this it appears it was not on any mistake that i remained unsatisfied in the question i asked , whether am i bound to believe what the present church delivers to be infallible ? to which mr. s. answers , i understand him not . my reply shall be only that of a great lawyers in a like case , i cannot help that . i am sure my words are intelligible enough ; for i take infallible there as he takes it himself , for infallibly true ; although i deny not the word to be improperly used in reference to things ; and that for the reason given by him , because fallibility and infallibility belong to the knowing power , or the persons that have it , and not to the object . but we are often put to the use of that word in a sense we acknowledge improper , meerly in complyance with our adversaries , who otherwise are apt to charge us with having only uncertainties and probabilities for our faith , if we do not use the term infallible as applyed to the truth of the thing . i am content therefore wherever , in what i have writ , he meets that term so applyed , that he take it only in his own sense , for that which is certainly true ; for i mean no more by it . and in this sense mr. s. answers affirmatively ; and gives this account of it , not only because the present church cannot be deceived in what the church of the former age believed , but because the church in no age could conspire against her knowledge to deceive that age immediately following in matter of fact evident in a manner to the whole world . the question then is , whether this be a sufficient account for me to believe that to be certainly true , or to be the doctrine of christ and his apostles , which the present church delivers ? and consequently whether the resolution of faith be barely into oral tradition ? thus we see the clear state of the question between us . i come therefore to the vindication of those things which i had objected against this way of resolving faith into oral tradition . three things i especially insisted on . . that it is inconsistent with the pretensions of the present roman church . . that it hath not been the way owned in all ages of the christian church . . that it is repugnant to common sense and experience , and that the church of rome hath apparently altered from what was the belief of former ages . if these three be made good , there will be no cause to glory in this last invention to support the sinking fabrick of that church . these three then i undertake to defend against what mr. serjeant hath objected against them . . that it is contrary to the pretensions of the present roman church . and if it be so , there can be no reason for those who are of it , to rely upon it . for if so be that church pretends that the obligation to faith arises from a quite different ground from this ; how can they who believe that church infallible , venture their faith upon any other principle than what is publikly owned by her ? and whosoever thinks himself bound to believe by virtue of an infallible assistance of the present church , doth thereby shew that his obligation doth not depend upon what was delivered by the former ages of the church . as those who believed the apostles were infallible in their doctrine , could not resolve their faith into the infallibility of oral tradition , but into that immediate assistance by which the apostles spake ; and where there is a belief of a like assistance , the foundation of faith cannot lie in the indefectibility of tradition , but in that infallible spirit which they suppose the church to be assisted by . for supposing this oral tradition should fail , and that men might believe that it had actually failed , yet if the former supposition were true , there was sufficient ground for faith remaining still . and what assurance can any one have that the present church delivers nothing for matter of faith but what hath been derived in every age from christ and his apostles , if such an infallible spirit be supposed in the present church which was in the apostles themselves ? for on the same reason that those who heard the apostles were not bound to trouble themselves with the tradition of the former age ; no more ought they who believe the present roman church to have the same infallible assistance . they need not then enquire whether this age knew the meaning of the former , or whether one age could conspire to deceive another , or whether notwithstanding both these , errours might not come into the church ; it is sufficient for them that the definitions of the present church are infallible in all matters of faith . therefore my demand was built on very good reason ; how can you assure me the present church obliges me to believe nothing but only what , and so far as it received from the former church ? and mr. s's answer is far from being satisfactory , that this appears by her manifect practice , never refusing communion to any man , that could approve himself to believe all the former age did . for this may be resolved into a principle far different from this , which is the belief of the infallibility of the present church . for supposing that , they are not bound to enquire themselves into the reasons why the tradition could not faile in any age ; it is sufficient for them to believe the church infallible ; and if it be so , in proposing matters of faith , it must be so in declaring what the belief of the former age was . but my demands go on , what evidence can you bring to convince me both that the church alwayes observed this rule , and could never be deceived in it ? which question is built on these two principles which the infallibility of oral tradition stands on . . that the church must alwayes go upon this ground . . that if it did so , it is impossible she should be deceived . both which are so far from that self-evidence which mr. serjeant still pretends to in this way , that the jesuits principles seem much more rational and consistent , than these do . for granting them but that one postulatum , that there must be an inherent infallibility in the testimony of the present church to afford sufficient foundation for divine faith , all the rest of their doctrine follows naturally from it . whereas this new way of resolving faith is built on such suppositions , which no man well in his wits will be ready to grant . for unless it be self-evident that the church did alwayes proceed on this ground , it cannot be self-evident that oral tradition is infallible ; because the self-evidence of this principle depends on this , that in all ages of the church , the only rule and measure of faith was , what was delivered by oral tradition from the age foregoing . now if it be possible that matters of faith might be conveyed in wayes quite different from this , what self-evidence can there be that the church must alwayes proceed upon this ? mr. s. then , must demonstrate it impossible for matters of faith to be conveyed to posterity in any other way than oral tradition ; and not only that the thing is impossible , but that the church in all ages judged it to be so ; or else he can never make it at all evident that the church alwayes made this her rule of faith . but if either there may be a certain conveyance of the doctrine of faith another way , viz. by writing , or that the church might judge that way more certain , whether it were so or not , either way it will appear far enough from self-evidence that she alwayes judged of doctrines of faith , meerly by the tradition of the preceding age . if another way be granted possible , there must be clear demonstration , that the church notwithstanding this , did never make use of it ; for if it did make use of another way of resolving faith in any age of the church , then in that age of the church oral tradition was not looked on as the ground of faith ; and if so , notwithstanding what ever mr. s. can demonstrate to the contrary , that age might have believed otherwise that the immediately preceding did . for let us but suppose tha● all necessary doctrines of faith , were betimes recorded in the church in books universally received by the christians of the first ages ; is it no● possible that age which first embrace● these books , might deliver them to posterity as the rule of their faith and so down from one age to another and doth it not hence follow that the rule of saith is quite different from ● meer oral tradition ? let mr. s. the● either shew it impossible that the doctrines of faith should be written ; or that being written , they should be universally received ; or that being universally received in one age , they ●hould not be delivered to the next ; ●r being delivered to the next , those ●ooks should not be looked on as con●aining the rule of faith in them ; or ●hough they were so , yet that still oral ●adition was wholly relyed on as the ●ule of faith ; & then i shall freely grant ●●at mr. s. hath attempted something ●●wards the proof of this new hypothe● . but as things now stand it is so far ●om being self-evident that the church ●ath alwayes gone upon this princi●e , that we find it looked on as a great ●ovelty among them in their own ●hurch ; and it would be a rare thing ●r a new invention to have been the ●nse of the church in all ages ; which it hath not been , the strength of it is ●ereby taken away . but let us suppose that the church ●d proceed upon this principle , that ●thing was to be embraced , but what 〈◊〉 derived by tradition from the a●tles ; how doth it thence follow that nothing could be admitted into th● church but what was really so derive● from them ? do we not see in th● world at this day , that among tho● who own this principle , contradicto● propositions are believed ; and bo● sides tell us it is on this account , b● cause their doctrine was delivered ● the apostles ? doth not the greek chur● profess to believe on the account tradition from the apostles as well the latin ? if that tradition failed the greek church which was preserv● in the latin , either mr. s. must i●stance on his own principles in th● age which conspired to deceive t● next , or he must acknowledge t● while men own tradition they may deceived in what the foregoing ● taught them ; and consequently th● things may be admitted as doctri● coming from the apostles which w● not so , and some which did may lost , and yet the pretence of tradit● remain still . what self-evidence t● can there be in this principle , w● two parts of the church may b● own it , and yet believe contradicti● on the account of it ? it is then wo● our enquiring what self-evidence this is which mr. s. speaks so much of , which is neither more nor less , but that men in all ages had eyes , ears , and other ●enses , also common reason , and as much memory as to remember their own names and frequently inculcated actions . which ●s so very re●sonable a postulatum , that suppose none who enjoy any of these will deny it . let us therefore see how ●he proceeds upon it . if you disprove ●his , i doubt we have lost mankind , the ●bject we speak of ; and till you disprove ●t , neither i , nor any man in his wits can doubt that this rule depending on testify●ng , that is sense on experience , can possibly ●ermit men to be deceivable . big words in●eed : but such as evidence that all men who are in their wits do not constantly 〈◊〉 them . for i pray sir , what doth mr. s. think of the greek church ? ●ad not those in it eyes , ears and other ●●ses , as well as in the latin ? do not they pretond and appeal to what they ●eceived from their fore-fathers as well ●s the latins ? it seems then a decepti● is possible in the case of testifying , 〈◊〉 therefore this doth more than per●●● men to be decievable ; for here hath been an actual deception on one side or other . but we need not fear losing mankind in this ; for the possibility o● errour supposeth mankind to continue still ; and if we take away that , we m●● sooner lose it than by the contrary . but what repugnancy can we imagine to humane nature , that me● supposing doctrines of faith to come down from christ or his apostles , should yet mistake in judging what those doctrines are ? had not men eyes and ears , and common sense in christ and the apostles times ? and yet we see eve● then the doctrine of christ was mistaken ; and is it such a wonder it should be in succeeding ages ? did not the nazarenes mistake in point of circumcision , the corinthians as to the resurrection , and yet the mean time agree i● this , that christs doctrine was the rule of faith , or that they ought to believe nothing but what came from him ? di● not the disciples themselves err , eve● while they were with christ , and certainly had eyes and ears , an● 〈◊〉 sense as other men have , concern●●●me great articles of christian faith , christs passion , resurrection , and the nat● . of his kingdom ? if then such who had the greatest opportunities imaginable , and the highest apprehensions of christ , might so easily mistake in points of such moment , what ground have we to believe that succeeding ages should not be lyable to such misapprehensions ? and it was not meerly the want of clear divine revelation which was the cause of their mistakes ; for these things were plain enough to persons not possessed with prejudices ; but those were so strong as to make them apprehend things quite another way than they ought to do . so it was then , and so it was in succeeding ages ; for ●et parents teach what they pleased for matters of faith , yet prejudice and ●yableness to mistake in children might easily make them misapprehend either the nature or weight of the doctrines delivered to them . so that setting aside a certain way of recording the matters of faith in the books of scripture , and these preserved entire in every age , it is an easie matter to conceive how in a short time christian religion would have been corrupted as much as ever any was in the world . for when we consider how much notwithstanding scripture , the pride , passion , and interests of men have endeavoured to deface christian religion in the world , what would not these have done if there had been no such certain rule to judge of it by ? mr. s. imagin● himself in repub . platonis ; but it appear● he is still in faece romuli ; he fancies there never were , nor could be any differences among christians ; and that all christians made it their whole business to teach their posterity matters o● faith , and that they minded nothing in the world but the imprinting tha● on their minds that they might have i● ready for their children ; and that al● parents had equal skill and sidelit● in delivering matters of religion t● their posterity . whereas in truth w● find in the early ages of the christia● church several differences about matters of faith , and these differences continued to posterity , but all parties stil● pleading that their doctrine came fro● the apostles ; & it fell out unhappily for mr. s. that those were commonly most grossly deceived who pretended the most to oral tradition from the apostles ; still we find the grand debate was what came from the apostles , and what not ? whereas had tradition been so infallible a way of conveying , how could this ever have come into debate among them ? what , did not they know what their parents taught them ? it seems they did not , or their parents were no more agreed than themselves ; for their differences could never be ended this way . afterwards came in for many ages such a succession of ignorance and barbarism , that christian religion was little minded either by parents or children as it ought to have been ; instead of that , some fopperies and superstitions were hugely in request , and the men who fomented these things were cryed up as great saints and workers of miracles . so that the miracles of s. francis and s. dominick were as much if not more carefully conveyed from parents to children in that age than those of christ and his apostles ; and on this account posterity must be equally bound to believe them , and have their persons in equal veneration . if men at last were grown wiser , it was because they did not believe mr. s's . principles , that they ought to receive what was delivered by their parents ; but they began to search and enquire into the writings of former ages , and to examine the opinions and practices of the present with those of the primitive church , and by this means there came a restauration of learning and religion together . but though matters of fact be plain and evident in this case , yet m. s. will prove it impossible there should any errours come into the christian church ; and his main argument is this , because no age of the church could conspire against her knowledge to deceive that age immediately following in matter of fact evident in a manner to the whole world . but before i come more particularly to shew the weakness of this argument , by manifesting how errours might come into the church without such a conspiracy as this is , i shall propound some queries to him . . what age of the church he will instance in wherein all persons who were not cast out of the church , had the same apprehensions concerning all points of faith ? i. e. that none among them did believe more things delivered by christ or the apostles than others did . i am sure he can neither instance in the age of the apostles themselves , nor in those immediately succeeding them ; unless mr. s. the better to defend his hypothesis will question all written records because they consist of dead letters , and unsenc't characters , and wordish testimonies . never considering that while he utters this , he writes himself ; unless he imagins there is more of life , sense and certainty in his books , than in the scriptures or any other writing whatsoever . . where there were different apprehensions in one age of the church , whether there must not be different traditions in the next ? for as he looks on all parents as bound to teach their children , so on children as bound to believe what their parents teach them . on which supposition different traditions in the succeeding age must needs follow different apprehensions in the precedent . . whether persons agreeing in the substance of doctrines may not differ in their apprehensions of the necessity of them ? as for instance , all may agree in the article of christs descent into hell , but yet may differ in the explication of it , and in the apprehension of the necessity of it in order to salvation . so that we must not only in tradition about matters of faith enquire what was delivered , but under what notion it was delivered ; whether as an allowable opinion , or a necessary point of faith ; but if several persons , nay multitudes in the church may have different notions as to the necessity of the same points , by what means shall we discern what was delivered as an opinion in the church , and what as an article of faith ? but mr. s. throughout his discourse takes it for granted that there is the same necessity of believing and delivering all things which concern the christian doctrine ; and still supposes the same sacredness , concern , necessity , in delivering all the points in controversie between the romanists and us , as there was in those main articles of faith , which they and we are agreed in . which is so extravagant a supposition that it is hard to conceive it should ever enter into the head of a person pretending to reason ; but as extravagant as it is , it is that without which his whole fabrick falls to the ground . for suppose we should grant him that the infinite errors which depend on the belief of the christian doctrine should be of so prevalent nature with the world , that it is impossible to conceive any one age should neglect the knowing them , or conspire to deceive the next age about them ; yet what is all this to the matters in difference between us ? will mr. s. prove the same sacredness , necessity , concern , and miraculously attestedness ( as he phrases it ) in the invocation of saints , purgatory , transubstantiation , supremacy , &c. as in the believing the death and resurrection of the son of god : if he doth not prove this , he doth nothing ; for his arguments may hold for doctrines judged universally necessary , but for no other . therefore mr. s. hath a new task which he thought not of ; which is , to manifest that these could not be looked on as opinions , but were embraced as necessary articles of faith , for unless he proves them such , he can neither prove any obligation in parents to teach them their children , nor in children to believe what their parents taught , but only to hold them in the same degree which they did themselves . when mr. s. will undertake to prove that the whole church from the time of christ did agree in the points in difference between us , as necessary articles of faith , i may more easily believe that no age could be ignorant of them , or offer to deceive the next about them . but when mr. s. reflects on his frequent concession that there are private opinions in the church , distinct from matters of faith , he must remember before he can bring home his grounds to the case between their church and ours , that he must prove none of the things in debate , were ever entertained as private opinions , and that it is impossible for that which was a private opinion in one age , to become a matter of faith in the next . but because this distinction of his ruines his whole demonstration , i shall ●irst propound it in his own terms , and ●hen shew how from thence it follows , ●hat errors may come into the church , and be entertained as matters of faith . his words are , it being evident , that we have but two wayes of ordinary know●edge , by acts of our soul , or operations ●n our body ; that is by reason and expe●ience ; the former of which belongs to ●peculators or doctors , the second to de●iverers of what was received , or testi●iers . and this distinction he frequent●y admits , not only in the present age of the church , but in any ; for the same reason will hold in all . from ●ence i propose several queries further to mr. s. . if every one in the church●ooked ●ooked on himself as bound to believe ●ust as the precedent age did , whence came any to have particular opinions of their own ? for either the church●ad ●ad delivered her sense in that case or not ; if not , then tradition is no certain conveyer of the doctrine of christ ; ●f she had , then those who vented private speculations were hereticks in so doing ; because they opposed that doctrine which the church received from christ and his apostles . if mr. s. replie● that private speculations are in such case● where there is no matter of faith at all he can never be able to help himsel● by that distinction in the case of hi● own church ; for i demand , whether i● it a matter of faith , that men ought to believe oral tradition infallible ? i● not , how can men ground their faith upon it ? if it be , then either some are meer speculators in matters of faith ; or all who believe on the account o● the popes infallibility are hereticks for so doing . . if there were speculators in former ages as well as this , whether did those men believe their own speculations or no ? if not , then the father● were great impostors who vented those speculations in the church which they did not believe themselves ; and it i● plain mr. s. speaks of such opinions which the asserters of , do firmly believe to be true : and if they did , then they look on themselves as bound to believe something which was not founded on the tradition of the church ; and consequently did not own oral tradition , as the rule of faith . so that as many speculators as we find in the church , so many testifiers we have against the in●libility of oral tradition . . whether those persons who did themselves believe those opinions to be true , did not think themselves obliged to tell others they ought to believe them ; and consequently to deliver these as matters of faith to their children ? let mr. s. shew me any inconsequence in this ; but that it unavoidably follows upon his principles that they were bound to teach their children what themselves received as the doctrine of christ , and that the obligation is in all respects equal as if they had believed these things on the account of oral tradition . if children be obliged to believe what their parents teach them for matters of faith , then upon mr. s's . own concessions is not posterity bound to believe something which originally came not from christ or his apostles ? for it appears in this case , that the first rise was from a private opinion of some doctors of the church ; but they believing these opinions themselves , think themselves obliged to propagate them to others ; and by reason of their learning and authority , these opinions may by degrees gain a general acceptance in the ruling part of the chur●● ; and all who believe them true , t●●●● they ought to teach them their ●●●●dren ; and children they are to believe what their parents teach them . thus from mr. s's . own principles , things that never were delivered by christ or his apostles , may come to be received as matters of faith in the present church . thus the intelligent reader needs no bodies help but mr. s. to let him understand how invocation of saints , purgatory , transubstantiation , &c. though never delivered either by christ or his apostles , may yet now be looked on as articles of saith , and yet no age of the church conspire to deceive another . either then mr. s. must say , there never were any private opinators or speculators in the church as distinct from testifiers , and then he unavoidably contradicts himself ; or he must deny that posterity is bound to believe what their fore-fathers delivered them as matters of faith ; which destroyes the force of his whole demonstration . perhaps he will answer , that children are not bound to believe what barely their parents , or a●other number of persons might deliver matters of faith , but what the whole ●hurch of every age delivers . this , ●ough the only thing to be said in ●e case , yet is most unreasonable ; be●●use it runs men upon inextricable dif●culties in the way of their resolving ●ith . for suppose any children ●ught by their parents what they are ● believe ; mr. s. must say , they are ●ot bound to believe them presently , ●ut to enquire whether they agree ●ith the whole church of that age●rst ●rst , before they can be obliged to as●nt . which being an impossible task ●ther for children , or men of age ● find out in the way of oral tradi●on ; this way of resolving faith , ●oth but offer a fairer pretence for ●fidelity . for we see how impossi●le it is for mr. s. to make it appear , ●hat their church is agreed about the ●ule of faith ; for by his own confession , ●he far greater number as speculators●ppose ●ppose the way asserted by him : how ●uch more difficult then must it needs ●e to find out what the sense of the whole essential church is in all matters which parents may teach their children for doctrines of faith ? so that if chrildren are not bound to believe what their parents teach them , till they know they teach nothing but what the whole church teaches , it is the most compendious way to teach them they are not bound to believe at all . but if this distinction be admitted , as mr. s. makes much use of it , then it appears how errors may come into the church at sirst under the notion of speculations , and by degrees to be delivered as points of faith , by which means those things may be received in the church , for such , which were never delivered by christ or his apostles , and yet no age conspire to deceive the next , which was the thing to be shewed . this is one way of shewing how errors may come into the church , without one ages conspiring to deceive the next ; but besides this , there are several others i might insist upon ; but i shall mention only two more ▪ . misinterpreting the sence of scripure . . supposing it in the power o● some part of the church to oblige the whole in matters of faith . for the first we are to consider that no imaginable account can be given either of the writing or universal reception of the books of the new testament , if they were not designed for the preservation of the doctrine of christ. and ●lthough it should be granted possible ●or the main and fundamental articles of christian faith ( such as the apostles creed gives a summary account of ) ●o have been preserved by the help of ●radition ; yet , unless we be extream●y ungrateful , we cannot but acknowledge that god hath infinitely ●etter provided for us , in not leaving ●he grounds of our religion to the ●eer breath of the people , or the care ●f mothers instructing their children , ●ut hath given us the certain records ●fall the doctrines and motives of faith ●reserved inviolably from the first ages ●f the church . and when the church●w ●w with what care god had provided ●r the means of faith , tradition●as ●as little minded ; thence the memory ●f those other things not recorded in ●cripture is wholly lost ; all the care ●as imployed in searching , preserving and delivering these sacred books t● posterity . to these the primitiv● church still appeals ; these they plea● for against all adversaries , defendin● their authority , explaining their sense vindicating them from all corruption● tradition they rely not on any fu●ther then as a testimony of the trut● of these records , or to clear the sen● of them from the perverse interpr● tation of those hereticks who preten● ed another kind of tradition th● what was in scripture . and when the● were silenced , all the disputes th● arose in the church concerning matte● of faith , was about the sense of the books ; as is evident by the procee●ings in the case of arius and pelagi● wherein tradition was only used a means to clear the sense of the s●ptures , but not at all as that which t● faith of all was to be resolved int● but when any thing was pleaded fr● tradition for which there was ground in scripture , it was reject with the same ease it was offered ; a● such persons were plainly told , t● was not the churches way ; if they b● plain scripture with the concurr● sense of antiquity , they might produce ●t and rely upon it . so that the whole ●se of tradition in the primitive church ( besides attesting the books ) was , to shew the unreasonableness of ●mposing senses on scripture , against the universal sense of the church from the apostles times . but as long as men were men , it was not avoidable , but they must fall into different apprehensions of the meaning of the scripture , according to their different judgements , prejudices , learning and education . and since they had all this apprehension that the scripture contained all doctrines of faith , thence as men judged of the sense of it , they differed in their apprehension , concerning matters of faith . and thence errors and mistakes might easily come into the church without one age conspiring to deceive the next . nay if it be possible for men to rely on tradition without scripture , this may easily be done ; for by that means they make a new rule of faith not known to the primitive church , and consequently that very assertion is an error in which the former age did not conspire to deceive the next . and if these things be possible , m. s's . demonstration fails him ; for hereby a reasonable account is given how errors may come into a church without one age conspiring to deceive another . again , let me enquire of mr. s. whether men may not believe it in the power of the ruling part of the church to oblige the whole to an assent to the definitions of it ? to speak plainer , is it not possible for men to believe the pope and council infallible in their decrees ? and i hope the jesuits ( as little as mr. s. loves them , or they him ) may be a sufficient evidence of more than the bare possibility of this . if they may believe this , doth it not necessarily follow that they are bound to believe whatever they declare to be matter of faith ? supposing then that transubstantiation , supremacy , invocation of saints , were but private opinions before , but are now defined by pope and council , these men cannot but look on themselves as much obliged to believe them , as if they had been delivered as matters of faith , in every age since the apostles times . is it now repugnant to common sense , that this opinion should be believed or entertained in the church ? if not , why may not this opinion be generally received ? if it be so , doth it not unavoidably follow that the faith of men must alter according to the churches definitions ? and thus private opinions may be believed as articles of faith , and corrupt practices be established as laudable pieces of devotion , and yet no one age of the church conspire to deceive another . thus i hope mr. s. may see how far it is from being a self-evident principle , that no error can come into the church , unless one age conspire to deceive the next in a matter of fact evident in a manner to the whole world . which is so wild an apprehension , that i believe the jesuits cannot entertain themselves without smiles to see their domestick adversaries expose themselves to contempt with so much confidence . thus i come to the reason i gave why there is no reason to believe that this is the present sense of the roman church . my words are , for i see the roman church asserts , that things may be de fide in one age , which were not in another ; at least popes and councils challenge this ; and this is the common doctrine maintained there , and others are looked on as no members of their c●urch , who assert the contrary ; but as p●rsons at least meritoriously if not actually excommunicate . where then shall i satisfie my self what the sense of your church is as to this particular ? must i believe a very few persons whom the rest disown as heretical and soditious ? or ought i not rather to take the judgement of the greatest and most approved persons of that church ? and these disown any such doctrine , but assert that the church may determine things de fide which were not before . in answer to this , mr. s. begs leave to distinguish the words de fide which may either mean christian faith or points of faith taught by christ ; and then he grants 't is non-sense to say they can be in one age , and not in another . or de fide may mean obligatory to be believed . in this latter sense none i think ( saith he ) denies things may be de fide in one age and not in another ; in the former sense none holds it . upon which very triumphantly he concludes , whatrs now become of your difficulty ? i believe you are in some wonderment , and think i elude it rather then answer it ; i shall endeavour to unperplex you . i must confess it a fault of humane nature to admire things which men understand not ; on which account i cannot free my self from some temptation to that he calls wonderment ; but i am presently cured of it when i endeavour to reduce his distinction to reason . for instead of explaining his terms he should have shewed how any thing can be obligatory to be believed in any age of the church , which was no point of faith taught by christ , which notwithstanding his endeavour to unperplex me , is a thing as yet i apprehend not : because i understand no obligation to faith to arise from any thing but divine revelation : and i do not yet believe any thing in christian doctrine to be divinely revealed , but what was delivered by christ or his apostles . and my wonderment must needs be the greater , because i suppose this inconsistent with mr. s's . principles . for oral tradition doth necessarily imply that all points of faith were first taught by christ , and conveyed by tradition to us ; but if a thing may be de side in this latter sense which was not before , what becomes of resolving faith wholly into oral tradition ? for faitb is resolved into that from whence the obligation to believe comes ; but here mr. s. confesses that the obligation to believe doth arise from something quite different from oral tradition ; and therefore faith must be resolved into it . besides , all the sense i can find in that distinction , is , that men are bound to believe something in one age , which they were not in another ; and if so , i shall desire mr. s. to unperplex me in this , how every age is bound to believe just as the precedent did , and yet one age be bound to believe more then the precedent . but however , i am much obliged to him for his endeavour to unperplex me as he speaks : for really i look on no civilities to be greater than those which are designed for clearing our understandings : so great an adorer am i of true reason and an intelligible religion . and therefore i perfectly agree with him in his saying , that christianity aims not to make us beasts , but more perfectly men : and the perfection of our manhood consists in the use of our reasons . from whence he inferrs , that it is reasonable , consequences should be drawn from principles of faith , which , he saith , are of two sorts ; first such as need no more but common sense to deduce them ; the others are such as need the maxims of some science got by speculation to infer them ; and these are theological conclusions : the former sort , he tells us , the church is necessitated to make use of upon occasion , i. e. when any heretick questions those , and eadem opera , the whole point of faith it self , of which they were a part ; as in the case of the monothelites , about christs baving two wills . but all this while , i am far enough from being unperplexed : nay by this discourse i see every one who offers to unperplex another is not very clear himself . for since he makes no theological conclusions to be de side , but only such consequences as common sence drawes , i would willingly understand how common sence receives a new obligation to faith . for to my apprehension the deducing of consequences from principles by common sense , is not an act of believing , but of knowledge consequent upon a principle of faith . and the meaning is no more then this , that men when they say they believe things , should not contradict themselves , as certainly they would do , if they deny those consequences which common sense draws from them . as in the case of the monothelites , for men to assert that christ had two natures , and yet not two wills , when the will is nothing else but the inclination of the nature to that good which belongs to it . so that there can be no distinct obligation to believe such consequences as are drawn by common sense ; but every one that believes the principles from whence they are drawn , is thereby bound to believe all the consequences which immediately follow from them . indeed the church , when people will be so unreasonable to deny such things , may explain her sense of the article of faith in those terms which may best prevent dispute ; but this is only to discriminate the persons who truly believe this article from such as do not . not that any new obligation to faith results from this act of the church : but the better to prevent cavils , she explains her sense of the article it self in more explicite terms . which as he saith , is only to put the faith out of danger of being equivocated . which is quite another thing from causing a new obligation to believe . as suppose the church to prevent the growth of the socinian doctrine , should , require from men the declaring their belief of the eternal existence of the son of god ; would this be to bind men to believe some thing which they were not bound to before ? no , but only to express their assent to the deity of christ in the simplest terms ; because otherwise they might call him god by office , and not by nature . now how can any one conceive that any should be first obliged to believe that christ is god ; and yet receive a new obligation afterwards to believe his eternal existence ? thus it is in all immediate consequences drawn by common sense ; in all which the primary obligation to believe the thing it self , extends to the belief of it in the most clear and least controverted terms , which are not intended to impose on mens faith , but to promote the churches peace . for neither i● there a new object of faith ; for how can that be which common sense draws from what is believed already ▪ neither is there any infallible proponent , unless common sense hath usurped the popes prerogative . but mr. s. offers at a reason for this , which is that none can have an obligation to believe what they have not an obligation to think of ; and in some age the gen●rality of the faithful have no occasion , nor consequently obligation to mind , reflect , or think on those propositions involved in the main stock of faith . from whence , he saith , it follows , that a thing may be de fide or obligatory to be believed in one age , and not in another . but let mr. s. shew how a man can be obliged to believe any thing as an article of faith , who is not bound to thin● of all the immediate consequences o● it ? because faith is an act of a reasonable nature , which ought to enquire into the reasons and consequences of things which it doth believe . bu● mr. s. mistake lies here , in not distinguishing the obligation to believe , from the obligation to an explicite declaration of that assent . the former comes only from god , and no new obligation can arise from any act of the church ; but the latter being a thing tending to the churches peace , may be required by it on some occasions ; i. e. when the doctrine is assaulted by hereticks as in the time of the four first general councils : but still a man is not at all the more obliged to assent , but to express his assent in order to the churches satisfaction . but mr. s. supposes me to enquire , how the church can have power to oblige the generality to belief of such a point . to which his answer is , she obliges them to believe the main point of faith , by vertue of traditions being a self-evident rule , and these implyed points by vertue of their being self-evidently connected with those main and perpetually used points , so that the vulgar can be rationally and connaturally made capable of this their obligation . but we are not now enquiring what the obligation to believe the main points of faith is , nor whether traditiou be a self-evident rule ; but how there should be a new obligation to believe something self-evidently connected with the former points , is beyond my capacity to understand . and they must be vulgar understandings indeed , that can rationally and connaturally be made capable of such an obligation . for if it be self-evidently connected with the main points , no one can believe the one , without believing the other : for nothing is self-evident but what a man assents to at the first apprehension of it ; and if he doth so , how comes there a new obligation to believe it ? is it possible to believe that any thing consists of parts , and not believe that the whole is greater than any of those parts ▪ for this is a thing self-evidently connected with the nature of the whole . but these are self-evident riddles , a● the former were unintelligible demonstrations . and yet though these b● rare theories , the application of them to the case of the roman church exceeds all the rest . whence , saith he , the government of our church is still justified to be sweet , and according to right nature , and yet forcible and efficacious although i admire many things in mr. s's . book , yet i cannot say i do any thing more than this passage , that because men are obliged to believe no implyed points , but such as are self-evidently connected with the main ones , therefore the government of the roman church is sweet and according to right nature , &c. alas then , how much have we been mistaken all this while , that have charged her with imposing hard and unsufferable conditions of communion with her ! no , she is so gentle and sweet that she requires nothing but the main points on the account of a self-evident rule , and implyed points by reason of self-evident connexion with the former . i see mr. s. ( if he will make good his word ) is the only person who ●s ever like to reconcile me with the church of rome : for i assure you , i ●ever desire any better terms of communion with a church , than to have no ●ain points of faith required from me ●o assent to , but what are built on a self-evident rule , nor any implyed points ●ut such as are self-evidently connected with the former . and no work can ●e more easie , than to convince me upon these grounds ; for all endeavours of proof are taken away by the things being said to be self-evident . for the very offer of proof that they are so , self-evidently proves they are not so : for what ever is proved by something beside it self , can never be said without a contradiction to be self-evident . but not to tye up mr. s. from his excellent faculty of proving , if mr. s. will prove to me that any of the points in difference between us , as transubstantiation , purgatory , supremacy of the roman church , &c. have any self-evident connexion with any main poin● of faith in the apostles creed , i solemnly promise him to retract all i have writ against that church ; so far shall bee from needing a new obligation to believe them . but if these be so remot● from self-evidence , that they are plainly repugnant to sense and reason ( witne● that self-evident doctrine of transubstantiation ) what then must we thin● of mr. s. ? surely the least is , that sin● his being a roman catholick , his min● is strangely inlightned , so far that tho● things are self-evident to him , whi● are contradictions to the rest of t● world . but withal mr. s. acquaints us with another mysterie ; which is , how these points descended by a kind of tradition , and yet confesses , they were never thought of or reflected on , by the generality , till the church took occasion to explain them . such a silent tradition doth very sutably follow the former self-evident connexion . for he that can believe transubstantiation to be self-evident , no wonder if he believes that to have been delivered by a constant tradition , which was never heard of from the apostles times to these . now mr. s. is pleased to return to me , and draws up a fresh charge against me , which is , that i act like a politician , and would conquer them by first dividing them , and making odius comparisons between two parties of divines . but to shew us how little they differ , he distinguishes them , as faithful , and as private discoursers ; in the former not●on , he saith , they all hold the same divinely constituted church-government , and the same self-evident rule of faith ; but as private discoursers he acknowledges they differ in the explication of their belief . i meddle not here ●●th the government of their church , ( which i have elswhere proved to be far enough from being divinely constituted ) but with the rule of faith ; and the question is , whether the infallibility of or altradition , be that self-evident rule which that church proceeds on ; yes , saith mr. s. they are all as faithful agreed in it , but as discoursers they differ about it . which in short is , that all in the church of rome , who are not of his opinion , know not what they say ; and that they oppose that which they do really believe . which in plain english is , that they are egregious dissemblers and prevaricators in religion ; that they do intolerably flatter the pope and present church with loud declamations for their infallibility , but they do really believe no such thing , but resolve all into oral tradition . but is not this an excellent agreement among them , when mr. white and his party not only disown the common doctrine of the infallibility of pope and councils , but dispute against it as pernicious and destructive to christian faith ? on the other side the far greater part of romanists say , there can be no certainty of faith , unless there be an infallible divine testimony in the present church , and this lodged in pope and councils ; that those who endeavour to overthrow this , are dangerous , seditious , heretical persons . accordingly , their books are censured at rome , their opinions disputed against , and their persons condemned . and yet all this while , we must believe that these stick together like two smooth marbles as faithful , though they are knocked one against another as discoursers ; and that they perfectly agree in the same self-evident rule of faith , when all their quarrels and contentions are about it : and those managed with so great heat , that heresie is charged of one side , and arch-heresie and undermining religion on the other . doth he think we never heard of mr. whites sonus succinae , nor of that chapter in it , where he saith , that the doctrine of pope and councils infallibility tends to overthrow the certainty of christian faith ; and that the propagating such a doctrine is a greater crime then burning temples , ravishing the sacred virgins on the altars , trampling on the body of christ , or the sending the turk or antichrist into christian countreys ? or doth he think we can believe that the pope and cardinals , the jesuites and all the papists of forreign countreys do as faithful agree with mr. white in this ? it seems not so by the proceedings in the court of rome against him , in which as appears by the censure of the inquisition against him , dated . november . his doctrine is condemned not only as false , seditious and scandalous , but as heretical and erroneous in faith . and if it were not for this very doctrine he was there censured , why doth mr. white set himself purposely to defend it in his tabulae suffragiales ? if these then do agree as faithful , who cannot but envy the excellent harmony of the roman church , in which men condemn each other for hereticks , and yet all believe the same things still ? well sir , i am in hopes upon the same grounds mr. s. will yield us the same charity too , and tell us that we agree with him as faithful , only we differ a little from him as discoursers ; for i assure you , there is as great reason : the only difference is , we give them not such ill words as they do each other . for let mr. s. shew us wherein we differ more from him about the rule of faith , than they do among themselves : for mr , white when he hath said , that all kind of heresie doth arise from hence that men make the holy scripture , or a private spirit , the rule of faith ; he presently adds , it is all one , if one make councils or pope any other way than as witnesses to be the authors of faith . for , saith he , this is to subject the whole church to that slavery , to receive any errour for an article of faith , which they shall define , or propose modo illegitimo , i. e. any other way then as witnesses of tradition . either then we differ from mr. s. only as discoursers , or he and his brethren differ from each other more then as such . and so any one would think who reads the oppositions and arguments against each other on this subject , particularly mr. whites tabulae suffragiales . but let mr. white say what he will , mr. s. tells me , i am not aware how little they differ even as divines . the more shame for them to have such furious heats and oppositions where there is so little difference . but as little as they differ , mr. white thinks it safer to talk of their unity in england , than to try whether they be of his mind at rome , by going thither to clear himself ; for he justly fears he should find them differ from him some other way the● as bare discoursers . yet let us hea● mr. s's . reason ; for , saith he , thoug● some speculators attribute to the churc● a power of defining things not held before , yet few will say she hath new revelations or new articles of faith . bu● we know the temper of these men better then to rely on what they barel● say . for they say what they think 〈◊〉 most for their purpose ; and on● of mr. whites adversaries , ( if himsel● may be credited ) plainly told him , i● the doctrine of the popes infallibility wer● not true , yet it ought to be defended b●cause it was for the interest of the churc● of rome : for which he is sufficientl● rebuked by him . it is one thing the● what they say , and another what necessarily follows from the doctrin● which they assert . but for plain dealing commend me to the canonists , who say expresly , the church ( by whic● they mean the pope ) may make new articles of faith : and this is the sense of the rest , though they are loth to speak out . else mr. white was much too blame in spending so much time in proving the contrary . but what man of common sense can imagine that these men can mean otherwise , who assert such an infallibility in pope and councils , as to oblige men under pain of eternal damnation to believe those things which they were not obliged to , before such a definition ? and what can this be else but to make new articles of faith ? for an article of faith supposes a necessary obligation to believe it : now if some doctrine may become thus obligatory by virtue of the churches definition which was not so before , that becomes thereby an article of faith which it was not before . but these subtle men have not yet learnt to distinguish a new doctrine from a new article of faith : they do not indeed pretend that their doctrine is new , because they deny any such thing as new revelation in the church ; but yet they must needs say , if they understand themselves , that old implicit doctrines , may become new a●ticles of faith by virtue of the churcher definition . so little are they relieved by that silly distinction of explicit and implicit delivery of them , which mr. s. for a great novelty acquaints us with . for what is only implicitly delivered , 〈◊〉 no article of faith at all : for that can be no article of faith , which men are not bound to believe ; now there are none will say that men are bound to believe under pain of damnation i● they do not the things which are only implicitly delivered ; but this they say with great confidence of all things defined by the church . and let now any intelligent person judge ; whether those who assert such things , do not differ wide enough from those who resolve all into oral tràdition , and make the obligation to faith wholly dependent upon the constant tradition of any doctrine from age to age ever since the apostles times . but mr. s. is yet further displeased with me for saying , that pope and councils challenge a power to make things de fide in one age , which were not in another . for . he says i speak it in common , and prove it not . . he adds , that take them right , this is both perfectly innocent , and unavoidably necessary to a church . and is it not strange he should expect any particular proofs of so innocent and necessary a thing to the being of a church ? but he will tell me it is in his own sense of de fide , which i have already shewn to signifie nothing to his purpose . let him therefore speak out whether he doth believe any such thing as inherent infallibility in the definitions of pope and councils ? if not , i am sure at rome they will never believe that mr. s. agrees with them as faithful ; if he doth , whether doth not such an infallible definition bind men by virtue of it to the belief of what is then defined ? if it doth , then things may become as much de fide by it , as if they were delivered by christ or his apostles . for thereby is supposed an equal obligation to faith , because there is a proposition equally infallible . but will he say , the pope doth not challenge this ? why then is the contrary doctrine censured and condemned at rome ? why is the other so eagerly contended for , by the most zealous sons of that church , and that not as a school-opinion , but as the only certain foundation of faith ? mr. s. is yet pleased to inform me further , that nothing will avail me but this , if a pope and council should define a new thing , and declare they ground themselves on new lights , as did their first reformers in england : but i shall find , he saith , no such fopperies in faith-definitions made by the catholick church . is this the man who made choice of reason for his weapon ? could there be a greater calumny cast on our church , than to say her reformers grounded themselves on new lights : when our great charge against the church of rome is for introducing novelties , and receding from pure and primitive antiquity . whether the charge be true or no , yet sure it follows they did not declare they ground themselves on new lights , but expresly the contrary . well , but pope and councils neither define new things , nor ground themselves on them : but what means the man of reason ? that they make no new definitions : surely ot ; for then what did they meet for ? ●d what mean their decrees ? but he ●tends , that they deliver no new do●rine : but how must that be tryed ? ●r hath mr. s. gained the opinion of ●fallibility both from pope and coun●ls , that we must believe his bare ●ord ? but we not only say but prove ●hat even their last council hath defi●ed many things , which never were ●elivered by christ or his apostles . and it is to no purpose whether they ●y they ground themselves on new lights , ●r pretend to an infallible assistance ; ●or it comes all to the same at last . for ●f the assistance be infallible , what mat●er is it whether the doctrine hath been ●evealed or no ? for on this suppositi●n it is impossible that pope and council●hould ●hould miscarry . therefore if any church be guilty of fopperies in faith-definitions , it must be that which you miscall the catholick , but is more truly known by the name of the roman church . there is yet one piece of mr. s's . sagacity to be taken notice of as to this particular , which is , that i am at an end of my argument , because i say the opinion of the pope and councils infallibility is the common doctrine maintained : in which i confound the church with the schools , or some private opinaters , and then carp at those mens tenets . and this is the force of all that paragraph . he tells me , i wa● not wit to know that no sober catholic● holds humane deductions the rule of their faith , schoolmen definers of it , no● the schools the tribunal whence to propose it authoritatively and obligingly to the generality of the faithful . neither doth mr. s. want the wit to know that our present enquiry is concerning the sense of their present church about the rule of faith . since the● mr. s. must confess it necessary to faith to know what the certain rule of it is ; let me enquire further , whether any particular person can know certainly what it is , unless he know● what the church owns for her rule of faith ; and whether that may be owned as the churches judgement , which is stiffly opposed by the most interessed persons in the roman church , and the most zealous contenders for it . ? especially when the pope who is said to be head of the church , condemns the doctrine asserted , and that only by a small number of such who are as much opposed by themselves , as by any of us . is it then possible to know the churches judgement or not ? if not , t is to no purpose to search for a rule of faith : if it be , which way can we come to know it , either by most voices or the sense of the governours of the church ; either of the wayes , i dare put it to a fair tryall whether oral tradition , or the infallibility of pope and councils be the doctrine most owned in the church of rome ? but mr. s. still tells us , these are only private opinators and schoolmen who assert the contrary doctrine to his . but will not they much more say on the other side , that this way of oral tradition is a novel fancy of some few half-catholicks in england , and tends to subvert the roman church . but is the present pope with mr. s. a private opinator , or was the last a meer schoolman ? i am sure what ever mr. s. thinks of him he thought not so of himself , when he said , he was no divine in the controversie of jansenius . doth the court of rome signifie no more with mr. s. then a company of scholastick pedants , that know not what the sense of the church is , concerning the rule of faith ? i meddle not with the schools but with the authority of the present church , and him whom mr. s. owns for the head of it : and is it consistent with his headship to condemn that doctrine which contains in it the only certain rule of faith ? mr. s. may then see they were no such impertinent topicks which i insisted on , and as stout as mr. s. seems to be , i am apt to believe he would not look on the censure of the inquisition as an impertinent topick . but at last mr. s. offers at something whereby he would satisfie me of the sense of the church , as to this particular , and therefore asks , whether i never heard of such a thing as the council of trent ? i must ingenuously confess i have ; and seen more a great deal of it , then i am satisfied with . but what of that ? there , he tells me , i may find a clear solution of my doubt by the constant procedure of that most grave synod in its definitions . that is i hope to find that oral tradition was acknowledged there as the only self-evident rule of faith : if i do this . i confess my self satisfied in this enquiry . but how much to the contrary is there very obvious in the proceedings of it ? for in the . session the decree is , that scripture and tradition should be embraced with equal piety and reverence ; and the reason is , because the doctrine of faith is contained , partly in scripture , partly in tradition ; but what arts must mr. s. use to inferr from hence , that oral tradition in contradistinction to scripture was looked on as the only rule of faith ? i cannot but say that the ruling men of that council were men wise enough in their generation ; and they were too wise wholly to exclude scripture ; but because they knew that of it self could not serve their purposes , they therefore help it out with tradition , and make both together the compleat rule of faith . where i pray in all the proceedings of that council doth mr. s. find them desine any thing on the account of oral tradition ? instead of which we find continual bandyings about the sense of scripture and fathers , which might have been all spared if they had been so wise as to consider they could not but know the sense of the present church , nor that of the precedent , and so up to the time of christ. but they were either so ignorant as not to light on this happy invention , or so wise and knowing as to despise it . it is true they would not have their doctrines looked on as novelties , therefore they speak much of tradition and the ancient faith ; but that was not by what their parents taught them , but what the fathers of the church delivered in their writings ; for by these they judged of traditions , and not the oral way . and therefore i see little reason to believe , that this was either the sense of the council of trent , or is the sense of any number of roman catholicks , much less of the whole church none excepted as mr. s. in his confident way expresses it . and if he will , as he saith , disavow the maintaining any point , or affecting any way which is not assented to by all , i hope to see mr. s. retract this opinion , and either fall in with the court of rome , or return as reason leads him into the bosom of the church of england . but there seems to be somewhat more in what follows , viz. that though schoolmen question the personal infallibility of the pope , or of the roman clergy , nay of a general council , yet all affirm the infallibility of tradition , or the living voice of the church essential ; and this , he faith , is held by all , held firmly , and that it is absolutely infallible . to this therefore i answer ; either mr. s. means that none do affirm that the universal tradition of the church essential can erre ; or that the church of rome being the church essential cannot erre in her tradition : but which way soever he takes it , i shall easily shew how far it is from proving that he designs it for . for if he take it in the first sense , viz. that all the faithful in all ages could not concur in an error , then he may as well prove protestants of his mind as papists , for this is the foundation on which we believe the particular books of scripture . if this therefore proves any thing , it proves more then he intends , viz. that while we thus oppose each other , we do perfectly agree together ; and truly so we do , as much as they do among themselves . but if mr. s's . meaning be , that all of their religion own the roman church to be the church essential , and on that account , that it cannot erre ( setting aside the absurdity of the opinion it self ) i say from hence it doth not follow , that they make or●l tradition the rule of faith , because it is most evident that the ground why they say thei● church cannot erre , is not on mr. s's . principles , but on the supposition of an infallible assistance which preserves that church from error . so that this fall● far short of proving that they are all agreed in this rule of faith ; which is a thing so far from probability , that he might by the same argument prove that scripture is owned by them all to be the rule of faith . for i hope it is held by all , and held firmly that the living voice of god in scripture as delivered to us is infallible ; and if so then there is as much ground for this as the other . but if we enquire what it is men make a rule of faith , we must know not only that they believe tradition infallible , but on what account they do . so . for if tradition be believed infallible barely on the account of a promise of infallibility to the present church , then the resolution of saith is not into the tradition , but into that infallible assistance ; and consequently the rule of faith is not , what bare tradition delivers , but what that church which cannot erre in judging tradition doth propose to us . it is not therefore their being agreed in general that tradition is infallible doth make them agree in the same rule of faith ; but they must agree in the ground of that infallibility , viz. that it depends on this , that no age could conspire to deceive the next . but all persons who understand any thing of the roman church , know very well that the general reason why tradition is believed infallible is , because they first believe the church to be infallible ; whereas mr. s. goes the contrary way , and makes the infallibility of the church , to depend on the infallibility of tradition . and therefore for all that i can see we must still oppose private opinators in this controversie ; the church of rome , not having declared her self at all on mr. s's behalf , but the contrary : and the generality believing on the account of the present churches infallibility . and it is strange mr. s. should find no difference between mens resolving faith into common sense , and into the immediate assistance of the holy ghost . if this then be the first principle of controversie , as mr. s. pretends , we see how unlikely they are to agree about other matters , who are so much divided about the principle of resolving them . and if this be the ground of faith , then most romanists build on a wrong foundation . but if the infallibility of oral tradition , be the foundation on which that formidable structure is erecting , which he speaks of ; woe then to the court of rome , for that is known to build on quite a different foundation . and if this , as he saith , rises apace , and has advanced many stories in a small time , it only lets us know how fast their divisions grow , and that they are building so fast one against another , that their church will not stand between them . by this discourse , mr. s. pretends to answer all those if 's which follow ; which are these , in case the church may determine things de fide which were not before , whether the present church doth then believe as the precedent did or no ? if it did , how comes any thing to be de fide which was not before ? if it did not , what assurance can i have that every age of the church believes just as the precedent did and no otherwise ? when i see they profess the contrary . and if a thing may be de fide in one age which was not in a foregoing , then a church may deliver that as a matter of faith at one time , which was never accounted so before : by which means the present church may oblige me to believe that as a matter of faith , which never was so in christs or the apostles times , and so the infallibility on the account of tradition is destroyed . to all which mr. s. gives a very easie answer : viz. that they do not hold any disparate or unimplyed points of faith ; but such as are involved and implyed in the main point . this is more easily said then understood : for if these be implyed in the former , how can there come a new obligation to believe them ? for to take his own instance , will any man in his senses say , that he that believes , homo est animal rationale , doth not believe homo est animal ? and this he makes choice of as an example how one point of faith may be involved in another so as to receive a distinct obligation to believe it . i grant that homo est animal is involved in the other , but he that shall say , that after he hath assented to that proposition , homo est animal rationale , he may be capable of a new obligation to believe the former which is involved in this , it may be justly questioned whether such a one as to himself can truly say , homo est animal rationale or no. but after such rare subtilties , he doth very well to tell me , that i ought to consider what logick tells us , that the conclusion is in the premises , which reflection ( in his courtlike expression ) he saith will much unblunder my thoughts . but let the conclusion be as long as it will in the premises , will any man in his wits say , that he that believes the truth of the premises is not thereby bound to believe the conclusion ? and the more the one is involved in the other , the less is it possible to make the obligation to believe them distinct . and it is hard for me to believe , that this is a way to unblunder my thoughts , when i see what horrible confusion such expressions argue in his own . let the church then clear her thoughts never so much , yet all this cannot amount to a distinct obligation to believe those things which were involved before , but to a more explicit declaring them for the churches peace and satisfaction . the only conclusion then involved in these premises is , that if some things may be de fide in one age which were not in another , then the present age may believe otherwise then the precedent did . and if this doctrine be held in the church of rome , nothing can be more evident , then that mr. s's . first principle of controversie , is far from being the doctrine of the roman church : which was the thing to be proved . my second chief argument against this way of oral tradition was , that it had not been owned in all ages of the christian church ; to manifest which , i enquired into the reason of the obligation in any age of the church to believe and practise just as the precedent did . mr. s. rejoyces in that confession of mine , that the only thing to be proved in this case is , that every age of the church and all persons in it looked on themselves as obliged not to vary in any thing from the doctrine and practise of the precedent age . and i there offer the choice of three wayes to prove it , reason , testimony or tradition ; he tells me , he accepts the way of reason ; yet quarrels with me for pressing for a demonstrative medium to prove it , when yet mr. s. seldome speaks unde●●he rate of demonstrations . but he thereby notes the unconsonancy of my carriage ; wherein i wonder ? that i should desire them to perform their promise , viz. to give us demonstrations for the grounds of faith ? but he saith withal , he will yield me the honour of professing i have no demonstration but probability for the ground of mine , and he make● this serious protestation for himself , tha● he should esteem himself very dishonest , did he assert and press on others an● argument for the ground of his faith which he judged not evident , that is demonstrative . what is it these men mean , when they cry up their own way for demonstrative , and say that we build ●ur faith meerly on probabilities ? do ●hey say that religion is capable of ●rict and rigorous demonstration ? if 〈◊〉 , let them demonstrate the being of ●od and immortality of the soul with as ●uch evidence , as that the three angles ●f a triangle are equal to two right angles . ●nd it is strange if they think particu●r problems in religion are more capa●le of demonstration then those theorems●n ●n which they are built . but by all he enquiry i can make , all the diffe●ence between us is , that mr. s. will ●ave that called a demonstration , which ● scarce a probability , and we call tha● ●fficient reason , which any wise man ●ay safely rely on in matters of religi●n . in the mean time how much do ●e suffer by our modesty , that because ●e speak not as big as mr. s. does , we ●ust be censured presently to have no●hing but probabilities for our faith ? are ●hose bare probabilities which leave no ●uspicion of doubt behind them ? and ●uch we freely assert the grounds of ●ur religion to do ; i. e. i assert that we have the highest actual certainty of the truth of our religion which the mind of any reasonable man can desire , and if mr. s's . demonstrations can do any more then this , let him tell us what it is . for my part i know nothing higher in the mind of man then a certain assent , and if i did not think there was the greatest ground in religion for that , i abhorr dissimulation so much that i should leave off perswading men to embrace it . and if any men have made us shye of the word demonstration and infallibility , they are such men as mr. s. have done it , who talk of these things when their arguments fall beneath some of the remotest probabilities we insist on . nay if there be any force in his demonstration as to matters of fact , it hath been used by us long before his book saw the light . but we love to give the true names to things , and not to lose our credit with all intelligent persons , by playing mountebanks in religion , crying 〈◊〉 those things for infallible cures which an ordinary capacity may discern the insufficiency of . but was it any thin● but justice and reason in me to expe●● and call for a demonstration from them who talk of nothing under it ? and therefore i said , that it was impossible to demonstrate this way of oral tradition , unless it were proved impossible for men not to think themselves obliged to believe and do all just as their predecessors did . for where the contrary is not only possible , but easily supposable , ●s that men may believe those things as new articles of faith which are defined by pope and council , i wonder how mr. s. will demonstrate that men must ●ook on themselves as obliged to be●●eve just as their predecessors did ? for i had thought demonstrations had ●ever place in contingent propositions ; but it seems mr. s. who tells me , logick will unblunder my thoughts , in●ends to make a new one for me . and ● assure you so he had need , before i ●hall ever call his arguments demon●trations : and although he thinks him●elf very honest in calling them so , yet ● should think him much wiser if he did not . but before i come to the particular debate of these things , i freely tell him , that i grant all he requests ; ● shall take along with me the nature of the matter in hand , the doctrines an● practises spoken of , the manner of delivering them , the necessary circumstance● which give weight to both ; yet for al● these , i cannot look on his way as demonstrative . and that both our meanings may be better understood , it i● very necessary the reader should hav● a true account of the state of the question between us . and if he will believe me , i never intended to disput● with him or any one else , whether me● were bound to wear their clothes , or buil● houses , or manage estates just as thei● predecessors did , but whether eve● age is obliged to believe and practi● just as the precedent did by vertue o● meer oral tradition ; for about that i● all the controversie between us . i d● not deny but that a succeeding ag● may look on it self as bound to believe what the precedent did ; bu● whether that obligation doth ari● purely from the delivery of that doctrine by the precedent in the way o● of tradition , is the thing in dispute between us . for in case the ground ● faith be wholly the written word conveyed from age to age , i deny not but an obligation to believe descends with the doctrine to every succeeding age . but that which mr. s. is to prove is , that abstractly from scripture every age is absolutely bound to believe just as the precedent did , without any enquiry whether that doctrine doth agree with scriptures or no , but that he is therefore bound to believe all which is proposed to him , because it was the doctrine of the immediately preceding age . and this is that which i deny , and desire mr. s. to prove for which he first gives us a large instance in historical matters , and then comes to the matters of christian saith . his instance is , in alexanders conquest of asia , as to which he saith , that the memory of it is fresh and lively , though some thousand years since . and that the universal and strong perswasion of this matter of fact was not caused by books , as curtius his history , but by humane tradition : that the continuance of this perswasion was the notoriety of the fact to the then livers which obliged them to relate it to their posterity , and that this testifying by the fore-fathers was that which obliged posterity to believe things as true , because there could be no imaginable motive why the whole world should conspire to deceive them , or be deceivable in their sensations : on which principle it passed to the next age , and so came down by way of tradition to our dayes : and the obligation to believe in every age depended upon this that the senses of the first could not be deceived ; and having this security in every age that no one would conspire to deceive the next ; it followes that no age could say a former age testified so , unless it did so ; therefore , saith he , it follows demonstratively that it was testified ; and so the descendents in every age to the very end of the world have the same obligation to believe their immediate fore-fathers saying it was testified by theirs , and so to the very first who were witnesses of his actions . this is the substance of what he more largely discourses in several paragraphs ; which when he hath done , he tells me , he expects what i will reply to this discourse . not to frustrate therefore his expectation , and in order to the readers satisfaction , we are to consider that in the present case there are two distinct questions to be resolved . . how a matter of fact evident to the world comes to be conveyed to posterity ? . by what means a compleat history of all passages relating to it may be conveyed ? as 〈◊〉 the first , i grant that a fact so noto●us as alexanders conquest of asia might have been preserved by humane tradition , and conveyed in a certain way from one age to another . but if we enquire into that which is alone proper to our question , viz. by what means we may judge what is true and false as to the particulars of that conquest , then i deny that bare tradition is to be relyed on in this case . for the certainty of conveyance of all particulars doth depend not upon the bare veracity , but the capacity and skill of communicating from one age to another . for which one would think we need no clearer evidence then the considerations of the different account of former times in the several nations of the world . for who can imagine , but the barbarous nations were as unwilling to deceive their posterity as any other ? yet we see a vast difference in the histories of former ages among them , and more civilized people . and i wish mr. s. would rather have instanced in some history which had been preserved meerly by tradition and not in such a one , which , if any other , hath been most carefully recorded and propagated to posterity . if mr. s. would have undertaken to have told us who they were that first peopled america , and srom what place they came by the tradition of the present inhabitants , and what famous actions had been done there in former ages , we might have thought indeed that sole tradition had been a very safe way to convey matters of fact from one age to another . but since all mr. s's . arguments will hold as well for the s●ythians and americans and the most barbarous nations , as the most civil and polite ; what reason can mr. s. give why there is not among them as certain an account of former ages , as among the greeks and romans ? were not their senses , who saw those matters of fact , as uncapable of being d●ceived as others ? was not every a● among them as un●illing to deceive their posterity as elswhere ? yet notwithstanding the force of mr. ss. demonstration , we see for want of letters how grosly ignorant they are of what was done before them . and if this principle were true , why have we not as true an account of the eldest ages of the world , as of any other ? nay , why were letters invented , and writing ever used , if tradition had been found so infallible ? but it is one thing superficially to discourse what is impossible should be otherwise , and another to consider what really hath been in the world . doth not the constant ●xperience of all times prove that where any history hath not been timely recorded , it hath been soon corrupted by notorious ●alsities , or obscured by fabulous reports ? as we see among our selves what difference there is in point of certainty between the several stories of k. arthur and william the conqueror ; what will mr. s. say , that these who lived in k. arthurs time could not know what he did ; or that they conspired to deceive their posterity ? but if tradition be so infallible , why have we not the ancient story of britain as exact as the modern ? if mr. s. will impute it to the peoples ignorance , want of letters , frequ●nt conquests by other nations , and succeeding barbarism , he may easi●y find how many wayes there are for matters of fact to be soon lost or corrupted , when they have not been diligently preserved by authentick records ; and that without one age conspiring to deceive another . but notwithstanding mr. s's . confidence , i cannot think it possible for mr. s. to believe that we should have had as true an account of alexander● conquest of asia , if arrian , curtius , o● plutarch had never writ his story , a● we have now . yet this he must asse● by vertue of his principles . and he that can believe that , i wonder he should scruple believing the popes infallibility ; for certainly no principle o● the jesuites is more wild and absurd then this is . besides , i admire how it came into mr. s's . head to think , no error could come into history unless o● age conspired to deceive another , when we find no age agreed in the present matters of fact which are done in it , as to the grounds and particulars of them . to give mr. s. an instance home to his purpose , in the late council of trent ; we see already what different representations there are made of it in so little a time as hath already passed since the sitting of it . one , though he had all the advantages imaginable of knowing all proceedings in it , living at the same time , conversing with the persons present at it , having the memoires and records of the secretaries themselves , yet his story is since endeavoured to be blasted by a great person of the roman church as fictitious and partial . we see then it is at least supposed that interest and prejudice may have a great hand in abusing the world in matter of story , though one-age never agree to deceive another . and in stead of being perswaded by mr. s's . demonstrations , i am still of the mind , that we have no sufsicient security of the truth of any story , which was not written while those persons were in being who were able to contradict the errors of it . however i deny not but some notorious matters of fact , such as alexanders bare conquest of asia , might by the visible effects of it be preserved both in asia and greece for a long time . but if we come to enquire particularly whether this or that was done by him in his conquest , which is alone pertinent to our purpose , we have no security at all from tradition , but only from the most authentick records of that story . and by this , i hope mr. s. will have cause to thank me for unblundering his thoughts ( his own civil expression ) and shewing him how errors may come into a story without one age conspiring to deceive the next ; and what a vast difference there is between preserving a bare matter of fact , and all the particulars relating to it . and hereby he may easily see how far the obligation extends in believing the report of former ages . for there can be no obligation to believe any further then there is evidence of truth in the matter we are obliged to . if then there be not only a possibility but a very great probability of mistakes and errors in matters of fact , i pray what obligation doth there lye upon men absolutely to believe what is delivered by the preceding age ? but to put an issue to this controversie , let mr. s. examine himself , and try if he can name one story that was never written , which was ever certainly popagated from one age to another by meer oral tradition ; and if he cannot , he may thereby see how little real force his argument hath in the world . for all the force of tradition lies in an unquestionable conveyance of those books , which contain in them the true reports of the actions of the times they were written in . but can mr. s. think , that if the roman history had never been written , it had been possible for us to have known what was done under the kings and consuls as now we do ? yet if his principle holds , this necessarily follows ; for those of that age could not but know them , and no age since could conspire to deceive the next . and from hence , the most useful consequence of all is that mr. s. might have writ a history from the beginning of the world to this day , with a full relation of all particulars , if there had never been any book written in the world before . and doth not mr. s. deserve immortal credit for so rare an invention as this is , and all built on nothing short of demonstrations : but mr. s. very prudently foresees , what it is i must be forced to recurre to , viz. that being baffled with his former demonstration , i have no other shift to betake my self to , but to say the case is different between histories and points of faith . and therefore to bring his business home , he applyes it at large to the delivery of the christian faith , which that he might do in more ample sort , he very finely descants on the old verse , quis , quid , ubi , &c. containing the circumstances of human actions , and from every one of them derives arguments for the infallibility of oral tradition : which briefly and in plain english may be summed up thus ; since the author of this doctrine was the son of god , the doctrine it self so excellent , and delivered in so publick a manner , in the most convincing way by miracles and good living , and for so good an end as to save mens souls , and that by writing it in mens hearts and testified to others ; and all this at a time when men might judge of the miracles and motives for believing it ; therefore since in all these respects it was imcomparably beyond the story of alexanders conquests , it follows that in a manner infinitely greater must the obligation be to believe christs doctrine , than alexanders or william the conquerours victories , or any history of the like nature whatsoever . all which i freely grant , but cannot yet see how from thence it follows that oral tradition is the only rule of faith , or the means whereby we are to judge what is the doctrine of christ , and what not . those arguments i confess prove that the christians of the first age were highly concerned to enquire into the truth of these things , and that they had the greatest reason imaginable to believe them ; and that it is not possible to conceive that they should not endeavour to propagate so excellent a doctrine and of so high concernment to the world . but the question is , whether abstractly from the books written in the first age of the christian church , there is so much infallibility in the oral tradition of every age , that nothing could be embraced for christs doctrine which was not and consequently whether every age were bound to believe absolutely what was delivered it by the precedent for the doctrine of christ ? mr. s. therefore puts himself to a needless task of proving that every age was bound to believe the doctrine of christ , which i never questioned ; but the dispute is , whether every age be bound on the account of oral tradition to believe what is delivered by the precedent for christs doctrine . but it is to be observed all along how carefully mr. s. avoids mentioning the written books of the new testament ; because he knew all his game about oral tradition would be quite spoiled by a true stating the matter of fact in the first ages of the christian church . i hope he will not be angry with me , for asking him that question about the scripture , which he asks me about the council of trent ; did he never hear of such a thing as the scripture ? or is it so hard to find it ? but if he hath heard of it , i intreat him to resolve me these questions . . whether he doth not believe that the books of the new testament were written at such a time , when the mat●ers of fact therein recorded , were ca●able of being throughly examined ? which he cannot deny upon his own ●rinciple ; for tradition being then in●allible as to the doctrine of christ , the writers of these books cannot be con●eived to deliver it amiss , unless they ●esolved to contradict the present tradition of the church , which if they had done , those books could never have found any reception among christians . if tradition then convey the doctrine of christ infallibly , these books must convey it infallibly , because they contain in them the infallible tradition of the first age of the christian church : and were written at that time when many persons living had been able to disprove any thing contained therein repugnant to truth . and that these books were written by those persons whose names they bear , i appeal to mr. s's . own rule , tradition ; for if that be infallible in any thing , it must be in this ; and if one age could conspire to deceive another in a matter of such concernment , what security can be had , that it may not do so in all other things ? . whether he believes that those whose intention was to write an account of the life , actions and doctrine of christ , did leave any thing out of their books which did relate to them as of concernment for us to believe ? for upon mr. s's principles , any one may easily know what the tradition of the church is ; and especially such certainly who were either present themselves at the matters of fact , or heard them from those who were ; and what satisfaction can any one desire greater then this ? but the question is , whether this testimony were not more safely deposited in the church to be conveyed by word of mouth , then it could be by being committed to writing by such who were eye and ear-witnesses o● the actions and doctrine of christ ? upon which i advance some further queries . . if oral tradition were the more certain way , why was anything written at all ? it may be mr. s. will tell us , for moral instructions , and to give precepts of good life ; bu● then why may not these be as infallib● conv●yed by tradition as doctrines of faith ? and why then were any matters of fact and points of faith inserted in the books of the new testament ? by which it certainly appears that the intention of writing them was to preserve them to posterity . let mr. s. tell me whether it was consistent with the wisdom of men , much less with the wisdom of an infinite being to imploy men to do that , which might be far better done another way , and when it is done can give no satisfaction to the minds of men ? . whether those things which are capable of being understood when they are spoken , cease to be so when they are written ? for mr. s. seems to understand those terms of a living voice , and dead letters in a very strict and rigorous manner ; as though the sense were only quick when spoken , and became buried in dead letters . but mr. s. seems with the sagacious indian to admire how it is possible for dead letters and unsenc'd characters to express mens meanings as well as words . it cannot enter into mr. s's . apprehension how . letters by their various disposition can express matters of faith ? and yet to increa● the wonder , he writes about matte● of faith , while he is proving that matters of faith cannot be conveyed b● writing . so that mr. s's . own writing is the best demonstration against himself ; and he confutes his own sophistr● with his fingers , as diogenes did zeno● by his motion . for doth mr. s. hop● to perswade men that tradition is ● rule of faith by his book or not ? i● not , to what purpose doth he write ● if he doth , then it is to be hoped so● matters of faith may be intelligibly conveyed by writing ; especially if mr. s. doth it ; but by no means we are t● believe that ever the spirit of god ca● do it . for whatever is written by me● assisted by that , is according to him bu● a heap of dead letters , and insignifican● characters ; when mr. s. the mean while is full of sense and de●onstration . happy man that can thus out-do in●nite wisdom , and write far beyond either prophets or apostles ! but if he will condescend so far as to allow that to inspired persons which he confidently believes of himself , viz. that he can write a book full of sense , and that any ordinary capacity may apprehend the design of it , our controversie is at an end . for then matters of faith may be intelligibly and certainly conveyed to posterity by the books of scripture ; and if so , there will be no need of any recourse to oral tradition . . if the books of s●ripture did not certainly and intelligibly convey all matters of faith , what made them be received with so much veneration in the first ages of the christian church ? which were best able to judge of the truth of the matters contained ●n them , and the usefulness of the books themselves . and therein we still find that appeals were made to them , that they thought themselves concerned to vindicate them against all objections of heathens and others ; and the resolution of faith was made into them , and not tradition , as i have already manifested , and must not repeat . . whether it be in the least credible , since the books of scripture were supposed to contain the doctrines of faith , that every age of the church should look on it self as obliged absolutely to believe the doctrine of the precedent by vertue of an oral tradition ? for since they resolved their faith into the written books , how is it possible they should believe on the account of an oral tradition ? although then the apostles did deliver the doctrine of christ to all their disciples ; yet since the records of it were embraced in the church , men judged of the truth or falsehood of doctrines , by the conveniency or repugnancy of them to what was contained in those books . by which we understand that the obligation to believe what was taught by the precedent age , did not arise from the oral tradition of it , but by the satisfaction of the present age , that the doctrine delivered by it was the same with that contained in s●ripture . it is time now to return to mr. s. who proceeds still to manifest this obligation in posterity to believe what was delivered as matter of faith , by the precedent age of the church ; but the force of all is the same still ; viz. that otherwise one age must conspire to deceive the next . but the inconsequence of that , i have fully shewed already , unless he demonstrates it impossible for errors to come in any other way : for if we reduce the substance of what he saith to a syllogistical form , it comes to this ; where there is no possibility of error , there is an absolute obligation to faith ; but there is no possibility of error in the tradition of any age of the church . ergo in every age there is an absolute obligation to believe the tradition of the present church . the minor he thus proves . if no age of the church can be ignorant of what the precedent taught , or conspire to deceive the next , then there is no possibility of error coming into the tradition of the church in any age ; but the antecedent is true , and therefore the consequent . now who sees not that the force of all this , lyes not in proving the minor proposition , or that no age could conspire to deceive another ? but the consequence , viz. that no error can come into a church , but by a general mistake in one whole age , or the general imposture of it , which we utterly deny : and have shewed him already the falsness of it from his own concessions . and i might more largely shew it from those doctrin●s or opinions which they themselves acknowledge to have come into their church without any such general mistake or imposture , as the doctrines of papal insallibility , and the common belief of purgatory . the very same way that mr. white and mr. s. will shew us how these came in , we will shew him how many others came in as erroneous and scandalous as those are . for whether they account these matters of faith or no , it is certain many among them do , and that the far greatest number , who assert and believe them to be the doctrine of their church too . if therefore these might come in without one age mistaking or deceiving the next , why might not all those come in the same way which we ●harge upon them as the errors of their church ? and in the same manner that corrupt doctrines come in , may corrupt practises too , since these , as he saith , spring srom the other . he might therefore have saved himself the trouble of finding out how an acute wit , or great scholar would discover the weakness of this way . for without pretending to be either of these , i have found out another way of attaquing it , then mr. s. looked for : viz. from his own principles and concessions ; shewing how errors might come into a church , without a total deception or conspiracy in any one age . which if it be true , he cannot bind me to believe what ever he tells me the present church delivers , unless he can prove that this never came into the church as a speculation or private opinion , and from thence by degrees hath come to be accounted a point of faith . therefore his way of proof is now quite altered , and he cannot say we are bound to believe whatever the present church delivers ; for that which he calls the present church , may have admitted speculations and private opinions into doctrines of faith ; but he must first prove such doctrines delivered by christ or his apostles , and that from his time down to our age they have been received by the whole church for matters of faith ; and when he hath done this , as to any of the points in controversie between us , i will promise him to be his proselyte . but he ought still to remember that he is not to prove it impossible for one whole age to conspire to deceive the next ; but that supposing that , it is impossible for any errors to come into the tradition of the church . let us now see what mr. s. objects against those words i then used , against the demonstrating this way ; it is hard to conceive what reason should inforce it but such as proves the impossibility of the contrary ; and they have understandings of another mould from others who can conceive it impossible men should not think themselves obliged to believe and do all just as their predecessors . and whatever mr. s. sayes to the contrary , i cannot yet see , but that therein i argued from the very nature and constitution of the thing . for that which ● looked for , was a demonstration , which i supposed could not be unless the impossibility of the contrary were demonstrated . but if it be possible , for men , christians , nay romanists to believe on other accounts then the tradition of the precedent age , i pray what demonstration can there be , that men must think themselves obliged to believe and do all just as their predecessors did ? surely if mr. s's . fancy had not been very extravagant , he could never have thought here of mens being obliged to cut their beards , or wear such garters and hat-bands as their fore-fathers did . for do i not mention believing first and then doing ? by which it were easie to apprehend , that i meant matters of faith , and such practises as flow from them . neither was there any such crafty and sophistical dealing as he charges me with ; for i am content his doctrine be taken in his own terms ; and i have now given a larger and fuller account why i am far from being convinced by the way he hath used for resolving faith . passing by therefore his challenge , which i accept of , as long as he holds to the weapon of reason and civility , i come to consider his last enquiry , why i should come to doubt of such an obligation in posterity to believe their ancestors in matters of faith ; and he judiciously resolves it into a strange distortion of human nature , but such as it seems , is the proper effect of the protestants temper , which is , saith he , to chuse every one his faith , by his private judgement or wit working upon disputable words . which as far as we own it , is , not to believe what we see no ground for ; and if this be such a distortion of humane nature , i envy not mr. s's . uprightness and perfection . if he means that we build our faith on our private judgements in opposition to scripture or the universal tradition of the church in all ages , let him prove it evidently in one particular , and i engage for my self and all true protestants , we will renounce the belief of it . if he hath any thing further to object against the grounds of our religion , he knows where to attaque me ; let him undertake the whole ; or else acknowledge it a most unreasonable thing thus to charge falsities upon us , and then say we have nothing else to say for our selves . we pretend not to chuse our faith , but heartily embrace whatever appears to have been delivered by christ or his apostles ; but we know the church of rome too well to believe all which she would impose upon us , and are loth to have her chuse our religion for us , since we know she hath chosen so ill for her self . but if mr. s. will not believe me in saying thus , what reason have i to believe him in saying otherwise ? such general charges then signifie nothing , but every one must judge according to the reason on both sides . i now come to the last part of my task ; which is to shew , that this way is repugnant to common sense and experience , and that the church of rome hath apparently altered from what was the belief of former ages . to which purpose my words are : it is to no purpose to prove the impossibility of motion when i see men move ; no more is it to prove that no age of the church could vary from the preceding , when we can evidently prove that they have done it . and therefore this argument is intended only to catch easie minds that care not for a search into the history of the several ages of the church , but had rather sit down with a superficial subtilty , then spend time in further enquiries . but two things mr. s. tells me , are required ere i can see that their faith varies from the former . first to see what their church holds now , and then to see what the former church held before ; and he kindly tells me , if he sees any thing , i see neither well . it seems i want mr. s's . spectacles of oral tradition to see with ; but as yet i have no cause to complain of the want of them , but ● see much better without them , the● with them . he tells me , i cannot see what their present church holds , an● therefore i cannot assure any what w● held before ; because if i renounce tradition i take away all means of knowing . the reason why i cannot candidly see ( as he phrases it ) what their church holds now , is , because i cannot distinguish between faith and its explication , some schoolmen and the church . by which it seems it is impossible for me to know what their church holds concerning invocation of saints , worship of images , communion in one kind ; for those are the points i there mention , wherein it is evident that the church of rome hath receded from the doctrine and practise of the primitive church . or are these only the opinions and practises of some schoolmen among them , and not the doctrine and practise of their church ? but that we might come to some fuller state of these controversies , i wish m. s. would settle some sure way whereby we might know distinctly what are the doctrines and practises of their church . if the council of trent and roman-catechism , be said to be the rule of doctrine , i desire no other ; so that those may be interpreted by practises universally allowed among them . as when that council only defined that due honour be given to saints , the general practise of that church may tell us what they mean by that due honour ; and if that be not fair , i know not what is . but i see all the shift mr. s. hath , is , when he is pinched , . to say those are the opinions of schoolmen and private speculators , and not the doctrine of their church . and if such shifts as these are , must serve the turn , i should wonder if ever he be to seek for an answer . but the shortest answer of all would be that none but those of their church can know what she holds ; and therefore it is to no purpose for protestants to write against her : or it may be , that none but mr. s. and one or two more can tell ; for many among them say , those are the doctrines of their church which they deny to be . so that except mr. white and mr. s. and some very few demonstrators more , all the rest are schoolmen , private opinators , and not to be relyed on . but i cannot see what their church held formerly neither . no wonder at all of that ; for if i cannot see an object so near me as the present church , how can it be expected i should see one so much further off as the doctrine of former ages ? and his reason is so strong as may well perswade me out of one at least of my five senses . for , saith he , if i question tradition , i question whether there be any doctrine delivered , and so any fathers . and is not this argued like a demonstrator ? first he supposes there never was any way used in the world but oral tradition , and then strongly infers , if i deny that , i can know nothing . but i can yet hardly perswade my self that the fathers only sate in chimney corners teaching their children by word of mouth , and charging them to be sure to do so to theirs ; but as they loved preserving the doctrine of faith , they should have a great care never to write down a word of it . but why i wonder , should mr. s. think that if i do not allow of ●ral tradition , i must needs question whether there were any fathers ? i had thought i might have known there had ●een fathers by their children ; i mean ●he books they left behind them . but if ●ll mr. s. pleads for be only this , that ●o books can be certainly conveyed ●ithout tradition , he disputes with●ut an adversary ; but as i never op●ose this , so i am sure it doth him lite service . it is then from the books ●f the fathers that i find what the sense ●f the church of their age was , and ●om thence i have shewed how vastly ●ifferent the opinions and practises of ●e roman church are from those of ●e primitive . although then i may ●ot think my self obliged to believe ●ll that the present church delivers for ●atter of faith ; yet i hope i may find ●hat the opinions and practise of the ●ormer church were by the records ●hat are left of it ; and the reason ●hy i cannot think any one obliged ●o believe what every age of the ●hurch delivers , is , because i think no man obliged to believe contradictions ; and i see the opinions and practises of several ages apparently contrary to each other . well , but i call this way a superficial subtilty : and so i think it still ; so little have mr. s's . demonstrations wrought upon me . but , saith he , is that which is wholly built on the nature of things superficial ? no ; but that which pretends to be so built , may . and of that nature i have shewed thi● way to be , and not the former . bu● that i may not think him superficia● as well as his way , he puts a profound question to me , what do i think controversie is ? and that he may the better let me know what it is , he answers himself . i deal plainly with you , saith he ; you may take it to be an a● of talking , and i think you do so , though you will not profess it ; but i take it to be a noble science . but to let him see that i will deal as plainly with him , as he doth with me , i will profess it , that i not only think controversie as usually managed , but some mens way of demonstrating ( mr. s. may easily know whom i mean ) to be a meer art of ●alking , and nothing else . but he takes ●t to be a noble science : yes doubtless , ●f mr. s. manage it , and he be the ●udge of it himself . his meaning i ●uppose is , by his following words , ●hat be goes upon certain principles , and ●e do not . we have already seen how ●ertain his principles have been , and i ●hould be somewhat ashamed of my ●eligion if i had no better . but what ●ur rule of faith is , hath been so amply ●iscoursed already by you , and that in ●r . s's . clearing method , that nothing ● left for me to do , but to touch at ●hat remains , and concludes this an●er . i had the better to illustrate ●he weakness of that argument from ●ral tradition , brought an instance in ●hat case parallel , viz. that if one ages ●elivering to another would prove that ●e faith of christ was in every age ●nalterable , because no age did testifie ●ny such alteration to be in it ; by ●he same argument the world might be ●roved eternal , because no age did ●ver testifie to another , that the world ●as ever otherwise then it is . so that ●f oral tradition were only to be relied on , there could be no evidence given of the worlds being ever otherwise then it is , and consequently the world must be believed to have been alwayes what we see it is . this a● far as i can apprehend , is a clear and distinct ratiocination , and purposely designed to prove that we must admit o● other rules to judge of alterations i● the church by besides oral tradition ▪ but mr. s. ( in his own expression ) strangely roving from the mark i aime● at , professes there is not a tittle in i● parallel to his medium , nay that he never saw in his life more absurdities couche● in fewer words . but i must take al● patiently from a man who still perche● on the specifical nature of things and never flags below the sphere of science . yet by his good leave , he either apprehends not , or wilfully mistakes my meaning : for my argument doth no● proceed upon the belief of the world● eternity , which in his answer he run● wholly upon as far as eighthly and lastly but upon the evidence of oral tradition as to no discernable alteration in an● age of it . for the question between us● is , whether in matters of alteration i● the fa● or practice of the church we are bound to rely only on the testimony of oral tradition ; so that if no age can be instanced in wherein any alteration was made , and this delivered by that age , then we are bound to believe there hath been no alteraration since christ and the apostles times : now i say , if this ●old good , i will prove the world eternal by the same argument ; taking this for our principle , that we are bound to rely only on oral tradition in the case , originally derived from the matter of fact seen by those of the first age ; for that which never was otherwise then it is , is eternal ; but we cannot know by oral tradition that the world ever was otherwise then it is : for no age of the world can be instanced in , wherein we have any testimony of any alteration that was in it ▪ either then we must believe that the world ever was what it is , i. e. eternal ; or else we must say , that we are not to rely barely on oral tradition in this case , but we must judge whether the world were made or no , by other mediums of scripture and reason . and this was all which i aimed at , viz. to shew that where there is no evidence from oral tradition , yet if there be scripture and reason , there is sufficient ground for our faith to stand upon . and so i apply it to the present case ; though we could not prove barely from the tradition of any one age that there had been any alteration in the faith or practice of the church ; yet if i can prove that there hath been such from scripture and reason , this is sufficient for me to believe it . and now i dare appeal to the indifferent reader , ●ether thi● be so full of absurdities , or it b● such a rambling chimerical argumen● ( as he calls it ) no two pieces ● which hang together with themselves 〈◊〉 any thing else . which being expressions of as great modesty as science ▪ i am content mr. s. should bear away the honour of them and his demo●strations together . the last thing he quarrels wit● me for , is , that i say , if we can ●v dently prove that there have been al● rations in the church , then it is to ● purpose to prove that impossible which we see actually done . and this appears not only because the scripture supposes a degeneracy in the christian church , which could never be , if every age of the church did insa●libly believe and practise as the precedent up to christs time did : but because we can produce clear evidence that some things are delivered by the present church which must be brought in by some age since the time of christ. for which i refer the reader to what i had said about communion in one kind , invocation of saints , and worship of images : in all which , i say , i had proved evidently that they were not in use in some ages of the christian church ; and it is as evident that these are delivered by the present church , and therefore this principle must needs be false . in answer to this , mr. s. wishes , i would tell him first what evidence means , whether a strong fancy or a demonstration ? i mean that which is enough to perswade a wise man who judges according to the clearest reason , which i am sure is more then ever his demonstrations will do . but it is a pleasant spectacle to see how mr. s. layes about him at my saying that the scripture supposes a degeneracy in the christian church . incomparably argued ! saith he ; why , see we not the place ? does it evidently speak of faith or manners , the universal church or particular persons ? but be it in faith , be it universal , does it suppose this degeneracy already past , which is only proper to your purpose , or yet to come ? that is , does it say there must be a total apostacy in faith before the year . ? alas he had forgot this . most incomparably answered ! for if the degeneracy be in . or any years a●ter , what becomes of m. s's . d●monstration then , that no errors could come into the church ? but it seems his demonstration holds but till . and i easily believe an other year will never believe the truth of it . but if such a thing as a degeneracy be possible , how then stands the infallibility of tradition ? when there can be no degeneracy without falling from the doctrine and practices of christ and his apostles . but that such a degeneracy hath already been in that which calls it self the catholick church , and that both in faith and manners , i shall referr mr. s. to the learned author of the late idea of antichristianism , and synopsis prophetica , where he may find enough to perswade him that his demonstration was far from holding so long as . and now i leave the reader to judge whether the foregoing evidences against the infallibility of oral tradition , or mr. s's . demonstrations have the greater force of reason in them . and if he will not stoop so far from the height of his perch as to take notice of what i have elsewhere said , i am resolved to let him see i am not at all concerned about it : i begin to understand him so well by this appendix , that i can give my self a reasonable account why he thought it not sit to meddle with any other part of my book . but if mr. s. be resolved not to answer any of the testimonies i there produce , unless i single them out and print them at the end of this answer , ( i. e. remove them from that evidence which attends them in the series of the discourse ) i can only say , he is the most imperious answerer i have met with , who is resolved never to deal with an adversary , but on his own unreasonable terms . thus , heartily wishing mr. s's . science as great as his opinion of it , and a good effect of our endeavours to promote the one , by removing the other , i am sir , your affectionate friend and servant , edward stillingfleet . london . june . finis . postscript . sir , since the dispatch of the former papers , i have met with another treatise , wherein i find my self concerned , written by the author of fiat lux , the title whereof is diaphanta : i am afraid the title affrights you ; for i assure you it is the most formidable thing in his whole book . but the man is a very modest man and hugely different from mr. s's . humor ; for he is so far from offering to demonstrate the grounds of faith ; that all he pretends to in the title of his book , i● to excuse catholick religion against the opposition of several adversaries . what fault i pray hath the catholick religion committed , that it must now come to be excused inst●ad of being defended ? but when i look into that part which concerns my self , i presently understand the meaning of it , which is not to excuse catholick religion , but themselves , for not being able to defend it . for he very ingenuously tells us , that faith is firm and constant , though all his talk for it be miserably weak : i. e. he is sure they have an excellent religion , though he knows not what to say for it ; and their faith is a very good faith , but it hath not yet had the good fortune to be understood by them . for he acknowledges , that as often as they dispute , they are beyond the business , ( so may any one believe , who reads their late books , ) which is in effect to say , there is no way left of disputing any longer with adversaries about their faith ; only they must believe it stoutly themselves ; but it is to no purpose to offer to defend it . nay , it doth their faith a great deal of mischief ; for , saith he , in reading controversies we see not so much the nature of the faith , as the wit of him who opposes or defends it . from whence we may easily gather what unspeakable mischief they do their cause by writing for it . by which expressions we may guess , at what a low ebbe the defence of their faith is among them : for the way now taken to defend it , is by disowning the defenders of it , and by saying , that they only vent their own opinions ; and though we confute them never so much , yet their faith holds good still . was ever a good cause driven to such miserable shifts as these are , especially among those who pretend to wit and learning ? one , he saith , t. c. vents a private opinion of his own , and it is not a pin matter whether it stand or fall ; another , he saith , the same of i. s. a third of j. v. c. and yet for all this , their religion is very firm and sure , and they all at perfect agreement about it . is this the victory over me mr. s. mentions to be so easie a thing ? i see that by the same figure mr. s. calls his way of arguing demonstration , running out of the field shall be accounted conquering . for i never saw any person do it more openly then this author does . for he plainly confesses , that his catholick gentleman went quite besides his business , that he built upon indefensible principles , that his theological ratiocination was indeed pretty , but too weak to hold . and are not we hugely too blame , if we do not cry up such mighty conquerors as these are ? truly sir , i expect the very same answer should be returned to your book ; that mr. s's . argument , is a pretty theological ratiocination ; and that your answer is not unwitty : but though that way will not hold , another will. thus when they are beaten off infallibility , they run to tradition : and when they are again beaten off tradition , then back again to infallibility . so that the short of all their answers is , though such a one cannot defend our faith , yet i can ; though i cannot , yet the fai●●s firm and constant still . i wonder what their superiors think of this ●ay of proceeding among them ; we ●hould imagine if they be so weak ●s they say themselves , they had much ●etter keep them from appearing ●broad and exposing their cause so ●idiculously to contempt . but it may ●e , they think their faith is the bet●er as well as their devotion , for their ●gnorance : and that it would be a ●ighty disparagement to their cause , ●or such silly people to be able to de●end it . it is enough for them to ●dmire it themselves , and to say as ●heir common people use to do , though ●hey cannot defend it , yet there are ●ome that can . and although it ●ay be no particular person can do ● , yet their cause is able to defend ● self . but for all that i can see , by ●ck kind of answers , the intention of ●hem , is , to intreat us , not to tri●mph over the weakness of their pre●nt writers , but to wait till the ●ause it self thinks fit to write . and when it doth so , they may expect further answer ; but it were a grea● piece of cruelty for us to hasten the● ruine , who fall so fast before us b● each others pens . finis . errata . page . l. . for that , r. than : p. ● l. . for errors , r. concerns . books printed for , and sold by henry mortlock at the sign of the phoenix in st. pauls church-yard near the little north door . a rational account of the ●rounds of protestant religion ; being a vindication of the lord-achbishop of canterburyes relation of a conference , &c. from the pretended answer by t. c. wherein the true grounds of faith are cleared , and the false discovered ; the church of england justified from the imputation of schism ; and the most important particular controversies between us and those of the church of rome thoughly examined : by edward stillingflee● b. d. origines sacrae ; or a rational account of the grounds of christian faith , as to the truth and divine authority of the scriptures , and the matters therein contained : by the sam author : the third edition correcte● and amended . irenicum : a weapon-salve for the churches wounds : by the same author . shecinah : a demonstration of the divine presence in places of religious worship : by j. stillingfleet rector of beckingham in lincolnshire . the moral philosophy of the stoicks bain upon the ephesians . knowledge and practice : or a plain discourse of the chief things necessary to be known , believed and practised in order to salvation : by sa● cradock b. d. the second edition corrected and enlarged , &c. the believers duty towards the spirit ; the sprits office towards believers by h. h. b. d. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e §. . p. . p. . §. . p. . p. . § . §. . p. . §. . . §. . p. . §. . §. . p. . p. . p. . §. . p. . §. . de fide & th●ol . tract . , sect . . p. . ibid. p. . tabul . suffrag . p. . §. . p. . §. . p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . p. . §. . p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . p. . part. . chap. ● . §. . ● . . &c. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . p. . p. . §. . p ; . p. . p. . p. . §. . p. . notes for div a -e p. . p. ● . a sermon concerning sins of omission preached before the king and queen at white-hall, on march th, / , being midlent-sunday / by ... edward, lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon concerning sins of omission preached before the king and queen at white-hall, on march th, / , being midlent-sunday / by ... edward, lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed by j.h. for henry mortlock ..., london : . marginal notes. advertisement: p. [ ]-[ ] at end. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -- sermons. bible. -- n.t. -- james iv, -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - rachel losh sampled and proofread - rachel losh text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon concerning sins of omission , preached before the king and queen at white-hall , on march th . / . being midlent-sunday . by the right reverend father in god , edward , lord bishop of worcester . published by their majesties special command . london , printed by i. h. for henry mortlock , at the phoenix in s. paul's church-yard . . s. james iv. . therefore to him that knoweth to doe good , and doth it not , to him it is sin. although our apostle in this epistle calls the gospel the law of liberty , yet to prevent any misconstruction thereof , as tho' it allowed a liberty to sin , we no where find more strict and severe passages against it , than in this epistle , both with respect to sins of commission , and sins of omission . as to sins of commission , his expression seems hardly consistent with the grace of the gospel ; for whosoever shall keep the whole law , and yet offend in one point , he is guilty of all . hath the law of moses any thing more apt to terrifie the consciences of men , if not to drive them into despair , than this ? it is not , if one breaks the whole law ; then it had been no wonder if he were guilty of all , even under the gospel , which doth not take away the force of the moral law. but , if he keeps the whole law ; and yet offend in one point ; he is guilty of all . how is this agreeable with the equity of the gospel , to make a breach of one part to be a violation of the whole law ? since he cannot keep the law , and break it at the same time ; and so far as he did keep it , he could not be guilty of the breach of it ; but , if he offended but in one point , he must keep all the rest . it is not enough to say , that the chain of the whole is broken , and the authority of the law-giver contemned ; for there is a great difference between breaking a chain , and breaking it all to pieces ; there is no such contempt in the breach of one command , as of all ; and he that keeps all the rest , seems to shew more regard to his authority in keeping the other parts of the law , than contempt in that wherein he offends . what then is the apostles meaning ? it is , that the gospel doth not allow any wilfull breach of the law of god in any one kind or sort whatsoever ; as appears by the following words , for he that said , do not commit adultery , said also , do not kill ; now if thou commit no adultery , yet if thou kill , thou art become a transgressor of the law. what is before said , that he is guilty of all , is here explained , that he is a transgressor of the law. this cannot therefore be understood of any sudden act of passion and surprise , nor of any failings as to the manner of our duties , but of a wilfull deliberate practice of some one known sin , although the person may be carefull to avoid many others ; because this is not consistent with that integrity of mind , and that sincere regard to god and his laws , which every good christian ought to have ; and so being guilty of the whole law , is to be understood with respect to the favour of god ; which can no more be expected where there is a wilfull persisting in any one known trangression of the law than if he were guilty of all . as to sins of omission ; the words of the text taken in their full extent , have a very mortifying consideration in them . for it is much easier to know to doe good , than to practise it . it is hard for men under the plain precepts of the gospel , not to know how to doe good ; but who is there that can say , he doth all the good he knows ? we all know , we ought to love god with all our heart and soul and strength ; and our neighbour as our selves ; yet who can pretend to doe it in the utmost latitude and extent of our duty ? so that what s. paul saith of the law , is true of the text , that it concludes all under sin. for , as our apostle saith , in many things we offend all . and the more we know , the more we offend , as he tells us in these words , to him that knoweth to doe good , and doth it not , to him it is sin . what advantage then have we by the gospel , since the more we know of our duty , the worse our condition is , if we do not practise it ? and we know so much more to be our duty than we can hope to practise ; that this expression seems to leave mankind in a more deplorable condition under the light of the gospel , than if we had never heard of it . for , if the sin be aggravated by knowing our duty , and not doing it , it must proportionably be lessened by having no opportunities to know it . therefore , for the clearing the sense of the apostle in these words , and for the right understanding the just measures of our duty , and the due aggravation of our sins , it will be necessary to state and clear the nature and extent of sins of omission : or to shew how far this rule of the apostle holds , to him that knoweth to doe good , and doth it not , to him it is sin. to doe good here , doth not barely imply something that is lawfull and commendable , which it is some way in our power to doe ; but that to which we are under some obligation , so that it becomes our duty to doe it . for a sin of omission must suppose an obligation ; since every sin must be a transgression of the law. but there are several sorts of things that are good ; and there are different kinds of obligation ; and from hence arises the difficulty of stating the nature of sins of omission ; which some are too little sensible of , and some too much . but it is in it self a subject of so important a nature , and so seldom spoken to , that i shall at this time endeavour to clear it . and in order thereto we must enquire , i. into that good which we are obliged to do . ii. the nature of the obligation we are under to do it . i. as to the good which we are obliged to do ; that may be considered two ways . . with respect to god , and so it implies the duty we owe , on the account of the relation we stand in to him. . with respect to one another , and so it implies not mere duty but something , beneficial and advantageous to others , which we are in a capacity to do . . our duty with respect to god , is either . that of our minds , which lie in internal acts , which we are bound to perform towards him. . that which consists in external acts of duty and service to him. . the duty which we owe to god in our minds ; which is , not barely to know him , but frequently to consider and think of him , as our maker and benefactor . it is a strange incogitancy in mankind to live , as without god in the world ; to suffer the cares and thoughts and business of this world to justle god out of our minds ; whom we ought in the first place to regard . if we could free our minds from that disorder and confusion they are under by the strong impressions of sensible objects , and the false idea's of imagination , they would think of nothing so freely , so frequently , so delightfully as the divine perfections . for god being the most perfect mind , other minds that are created by him , do naturally tend towards him as their centre , and are uneasie and restless , like the needle touched with the loadstone , till they are fixed towards him . we meet with too many things which divert and draw them another way ; but it is certainly one of the most necessary duties lying upon us , to call back our thoughts from too busie and eager a pursuit of earthly things ; and to fix them in the serious thoughts of god and another world. it is the opinion of aquinas and the older casuists , that assoon as ever any person is come to the use of his reason , he is not only bound to think of god , but to love him as his chief good ; and that it is the most dangerous sin of omission not to doe it . the latter casuists , who think this doctrine too severe , as to the first use of reason ; yet cannot deny it to hold , assoon as any come to the knowledge of god ; if the want of knowing him be not through their own fault . assoon as they know god , they confess , that they are bound to love him ; but are they not bound to know him assoon as they are capable ? what allowance may be made in the cases of gross ignorance , or natural stupidity we are not concerned to enquire ; but we now speak of those who have all advantages and opportunities of knowing god betimes ; and as to such their ignorance is so far from being an excuse , that it is their sin. and that can never excuse from a fault , but when it is no fault to be ignorant . but , not to know god when persons know so many other things in the world besides him , is so much greater a fault ; because all those other things lead them to the knowledge of him. so that i take it for granted , that no man of understanding can avoid the knowledge of god , without shutting his eye against the clearest light ; without darkening his understanding by unreasonable prejudices ; without confusion of thought , and perplexity of mind ; without groundless imaginations , and ridiculous suppositions ; and most commonly not without very disorderly passions and vicious habits , which make the very thoughts of god uneasy to his mind . but suppose we do own and believe a god , are we bound always to be thinking of him ? must we spend our time in contemplation of him , and neglect all our affairs here ? if not , what are the bounds of our duty which we may not omit without sin ? there are two things which are necessary for us to doe with respect to god in our minds . . to have frequent and serious thoughts of him ; without which it will be impossible to keep our minds in that temper which they ought to be in . for the thoughts of god keep up a vigorous sense of religion , inflame our devotion , calm our passions , and are the most powerfull check against the force of temptations . and therefore we ought to allow our selves fit times of retirement for recollection and consideration ; wherein we draw in our thoughts from the business and impertinencies of this life ( and even these go a great way in that which looks like business ) that we may converse with god and our own minds . and those who do not sometimes withdraw from the noise and hurry , the dust and confusion of this world , must be great strangers both to god and themselves ; and mind any thing rather than their chiefest interest . but i am afraid there are too many among us , of whom the psalmist's words are too true , god is not in all their thoughts ; i wish there were not some who would make good another reading of those words , viz. all their thoughts are there is no god. but i think not so much their deliberate thoughts , as their wishes and desires . but those can never alter the nature of things ; and therefore the wisest thing they can doe , is to make the thoughts of god desirable to them ; and that can be only by reconciling themselves to him by a hearty and sincere repentance . . we are always bound to have an habitual temper and disposition of mind towards god. this is that which is commonly called the love of god ; and is opposed to the love of sin. which doth not consist in sudden and transient acts of complacency and delight in him ; but in a firm purpose and resolution of mind to obey him . the jews think , that the fundamental precept of the law as to the love of god with all their heart and soul and strength , goes no farther than that they should doe that which the law requires as to the worship and service of god. but certainly the love of god must go deeper , and rise higher , or else it will never come up to the great design of religion ; which is , not only to doe those outward acts of service which he commands and expects from us ; but to bring our souls nearer to him , to make him our chief end ; and to direct the course of our lives and the acts of our obedience in order to it . now this is a duty towards god so necessary to our happiness , that we must be always obliged to it , and at all times ; although it be an affirmative precept . for the true reason of the difference of obligation is from the nature of the commands , and not from the manner of expressing them either negatively or affimatively . the reason of the perpetual obligation of negative precepts is , that it can never be lawfull to doe what god forbids ; but it may be sometimes lawfull to omit what he requires ; because the circumstances may make it not to be a duty at that time . but when an affirmative precept is of that nature that no circumstances can alter the obligation of it , then it binds as much as a negative . and so it is as to the command of true repentance , and turning from the love of sin , to the love of god ; for no man can be in such circumstances wherein he is not bound to doe it . but as to particular acts of repentance and of the love of god , supposing that habitual temper , the obligation of them is according to the proper seasons and occasions of them . when a sinner is conscious to himself of fresh acts of sin , he is bound to renew his repentance , and the omission of it adds to his guilt ; and when god calls men to repentance in a more than ordinary manner , by strong convictions of conscience ; or some awakening providence ; or by some solemn times of fasting ; he is guilty of a farther aggravation of his sin , if he neglects those seasons of performing the proper acts of repentance . but suppose we do know god , and have this habitual love to him as our chief end , doth this come up to all that mankind owes to god ? do we know him and love him and serve him as we ought to doe ? do we not fail in the manner and degree of those very duties which we in some measure perform ? and are not these failings omissions ? and will not these omissions be charged upon us as sins ? how then can mankind hope to escape the wrath of god against those who continue in the practice of sin ? to answer this , we must distinguish between omission as a defect and as a wilfull sin. we must say , as s. james doth , in many things we offend all ; and in all things , i am afraid , we offend some way or other ; if god would be exact to mark what is done amiss . but here lies the main point as to this matter , how far god will charge those things upon us as omissions , which in us come rather from want of power than of will to doe them ? i do not mean of natural faculties , for those we have entire , but of moral power , i. e. of such a measure of divine grace as will enable us to doe things beyond the imperfection and infirmity of our present state ; which , in this fallen condition , is like that of a man under a dead-palsie , who hath all the parts of a man , but not the power of moving them . and where god by his grace doth recover mankind to a new life , yet there are such remainders of the former deadness upon us , as makes us unable to doe that which we most desire to doe ; and do fail in the manner of performance , where we are sincere as to our purpose and design . but will god lay these moral defects , or infirmities of our corrupt nature on us as wilfull sins now under the gospel ? god forbid . i do not question god's right to command us all that which is just in it self , and he hath given us faculties to doe ; but i consider him as a gracious lord towards a decayed tenant , of whom , if he be willing to pay what he is able , he will not exact the uttermost farthing ; as a compassionate commander to a wounded soldier , who is willing to accept what service he is able to doe , although he fails in many points of his duty ; as the good samaritan , which poured in wine and oil into the wounds which he had not made ; and discharged the debt which he had not contracted . if god were not infinitely gracious and mercifull , there were little hopes for us to avoid punishment ; but since he is pleased to deal with us upon the terms of a new covenant , we have reason to hope that he will not charge involuntary neglects and moral disabilities upon us , as sins of omission . . there are duties of external worship and service owing to god ; and how shall we know when the omission of these becomes a sin to us ? for these are not always necessary , and sometimes we may be hindred from them . to answer this , i lay down these rules ; i. a constant or habitual neglect of those duties which god hath appointed for his worship and service , cannot be without a sin of omission , because , that must arise from an evil temper and disposition of mind . when it comes from a contempt of god and his service , it must be a sin , because the reason of it is a very great one . when it comes barely from a careless , indifferent , slothfull temper , which is glad of any excuses for the neglect or omission of them ; it argues very little sense of religion , or regard to god and his service , when they are so ready to find an excuse for their fault . but some are ready to justifie themselves in such a neglect , as though all the outward worship of god were mere ceremony , and only a decent way of entertaining the people with some outward pomp and shew of devotion towards a divine majesty . i am afraid , such hardly mention a divine majesty , but in a complement ; however , we are willing to believe that they do own such a being , but they think it a vain thing to serve him ; as though he could be moved by our prayers to him , or praises of him . we do not deny that god is infinitely above all our services : but is that a reason why we should not serve him in the way he requires it from us ? he doth not want our services , but we want his favour and blessings ; and can we expect them , when we slight that little service , in comparison of the time he allows for other imployments , which he expects from us ? if we had nothing but the light of nature to direct us , we should conclude it very reasonable that mankind should own their creator , by some outward , and publick , and stated ways and times of worship . for this is no more than natural justice to own our maker and benefactor ; and can it become less necessary , when he hath declared himself pleased with the performance of them , and made great promises to those who call upon him ? but this , say they , is the greatest difficulty of all , to understand what effect our prayers can have upon the eternal counsels of heaven ; since they are already fixed and cannot be reversed by our prayers . as great as this difficulty is , the true point of it is only this ; whether we are to believe and trust the frequent and repeated promises of god , although we are not able to comprehend , how the efficacy of our prayers is taken in , as a necessary condition towards the execution of god's eternal purposes . for , if they are conditions , as the scripture often tells us ; then we may easily understand what is meant by the efficacy of prayers ; and as to the manner of reconciling such contingent conditions with god's eternal purposes ; it is a difficulty which will afford perpetual matter of dispute , but ought no more to hinder us from plain duties , than a man should be from going a necessary journey , till he be satisfied whether the earth moves about the sun , or the sun about the earth . ii. whether the omission of such publick duties of divine worship be a sin or not , depends very much on the reason and occasion of it . for if it be a wilfull neglect , it doth imply a degree of contempt , and that cannot be without sin. and that is a wilfull neglect , when nothing but an act of a man 's own will hinders him from serving god in publick : i do not mean only at the very time , but if he hath by some former act of his will brought an incapacity upon himself , that want of power doth not excuse , when the impotency arises from a voluntary act of his own . if it be intended on purpose to hinder , it is as wilfull in its cause , as if there were no such impediment . for , although the actual impediment be the immediate cause of the omission ; yet it is the design and purpose which makes it wilfull . but if persons by an act of providence without their own fault be hindred from the worship of god as by long sickness ; no one can say , that this omission is wilfull , and therefore cannot be accounted a sin. but if a person by his intemperance and debauchery hath brought himself into an incapacity of attending on the service of god ; we cannot say that the actual omission was wilfull ; but we may justly say , that the original cause was so ; and that it cannot excuse the omission . ii. but besides the duties which we owe to god , there are such which we owe to one another , which cannot be omitted without sin. but here the stating of the case seems yet more difficult , since there is not to plain an authority to oblige ; nor such a relation to each other , as we stand in to god. and besides the circumstances of humane affairs are oftentimes so intricate and perplexed , that it is very hard for persons to know their duties , and much more to practice them . but there are certainly such duties , which we owe both to the publick and to one another ; and it may be of some use to us to understand the force of the obligation , and what those are which cannot be omitted without sin. . as to the publick ; and concerning that , we may take notice of two rules ; . those duties cannot be omitted without sin , which cannot be omitted without prejudice to the publick good. by which i do not mean any fancyfull notions , or pretences to it , but the true and real publick interest of the nation ; which consists in the preservation of our religion and laws . the main duty of this kind , which i shall insist upon , is the laying aside all heats and animosities and distinctions of parties , and minding and carrying on that which is the undoubted common interest of us all . what is the meaning of all those jealousies and suspicions which are among us , when we all profess to own the same religion , the same laws , and the same government ? this is a very melancholy subject to speak of ; for this unseasonable difference of parties among our selves , is like a flaming meteor in the air , we can hardly keep our selves from looking upon it ; and yet cannot behold it without some kind of terror and amazement . it is disputed among the casuists , whether if a man sees two men fighting with each other , he be bound to part them to his own hazard ; and the general resolution is , that if he be in a private capacity he is not , but in a publick he is . i hope the publick capacity , i appear in here at this time , will excuse my interposing to allay such heats and animosities as are not only of dangerous consequence , but great sins . and therefore , unless i would be guilty of omitting a duty my self , i must ( and will ) lay open the mischief of such divided interests as the difference of parties carries along with them . when god had given children to rebekah , while they were yet unborn , and in their mother's womb , she found them struggling within her to such a degree as made her in a consternation to cry out , if it be so , why am i thus ? i. e. if god hath given me these children for blessings , what is the meaning of this struggling between them ? and it is said , her concernment was so great , that she went to enquire of the lord. some think that melchisedek was still living at salem , and that she went to him , to consult about the consequence of it ; and he was a very proper person for it ; for he was king of righteousness and king of peace . and those are the best antidotes against the strugglings and animosities of those who have the same common interest and obligations . we need not to consult any oracle in this case ; for s. paul hath told us that , if we bite and devour one another ; not like canibals , but like different parties , living in hatred and malice and animosity to each other ; take heed , saith he , that ye be not consumed one of another . as if he had said , things cannot always continue at this pass , the inward fires , if not suppressed , will break out at last , and in probability end in your mutual destruction . nothing hath more puzzled the wits of men in this inquisitive age , than to give an account of the ebbing and flowing of the sea ; but a great man of our nation hath told us , that we need not run to the moon , or other remoter causes ; for the true reason of it is nothing else but the clashing of the waters of two mighty seas crossing each other ; and therefore , where there are no such contrary motions , there is no such ebbing and flowing . we have too much of this ebbing and flowing upon land , both as to our condition and expectation . but whence comes it ? is it not from two parties among us crossing and striving to over top and over power each other ? and till we unite and join in the same common current , we have little cause to hope for a state of peace and tranquility . our saviour tells us , a kingdom divided against it self cannot stand . i need not tell you of what kingdom he speaks ; but it was such a one , where there would be no subtilty or diligence wanting in the several parties as to carrying on their designs ; but he looks on an united common interest so necessary to the preservation of government , that he declares , that no kind of society can be supported without it . if we then regard the interest of our nation or of our religion ; if we would avoid the shame and reproch of destroying by our divisions , what we pretended to value above our lives ; we must lay aside our mutual jealousies and suspicions ; we must abate our heats and animosities ; we must unite and join in the things that belong to our peace . but if they be hid from our eyes ; then i am afraid what s. paul said of the gospel may be too truly applied to the things of our peace ; if they be hid , they are hid to them that are lost ; in whom the god of this world hath blinded their eyes . for it is too apparent , that the true ground of the contention of the several parties , is not matter of conscience or religion , or the common interest of the nation , but about power and superiority over each other ; which , if it be carried on , in humane probability can end in nothing but mutual destruction . which god of his mercy prevent . ii. men cannot without sin omit the doing those duties which their places do require from them . for those are intended for a publick benefit . those who study to be quiet , and to doe their own business , are not only the best christians , but the best instruments of the publick good. whereas , men of turbulent , restless and ambitious minds , who make abundance of noise and clamour , are like wasps , always flying and buzzing about , and very angry and peevish and discontented ; but are nothing so usefull as the more silent and industrious bees ; which make the best of every thing , and serve the common interest by it . every society of men is a body made up of head and members knit and compacted together by joints and bands ; but all have their several uses and functions , and while these are duly performed , the whole is preserved ; but if the feet should mutiny against the other parts , because they bear the burthen of the whole ; or the stomach , that it is loaded and oppressed with what serves for the nourishment of all ; or the head , that it must direct and contrive and manage all ; what would the effect be of such complaints and discontents at their own share , but that the whole body must suffer by them . while all the materials of a building are kept in their due place and order , the whole is strengthened and supported ; but if they start out of their places and tumble one upon another , the whole must fall . there are always some who love to carry on their own ends under publick pretences ; and if those be not attained , they matter not what becomes of all other interests , although their own must suffer with the rest . these are like the ivy to a flourishing tree , which seems to embrace it and stick close to it , but it is for its own advantage ; but at the same time , it weakens it and hinders its growth , and if it falls , it must perish together with it . but there are others , who by the very duties of their places are bound to regard the publick and the good of others ; and when they do it not , they are certainly guilty of sins of omission in a high degree . for every such place is a trust from god , of which an account must be given ; and a sacred and solemn obligation goes along with them ; so that there can be no sins of omission in such cases , without sins of commission of as high a nature as breach of trust , and of the most solemn obligations . the truth is , the world is so humoursome and fantastical a thing , that it will hardly endure to be made better ; so that those who have the greatest zeal and resolution to do good , are extremely discouraged in it , when they find so many objections and difficulties ; such frowardness and perverseness in some , such remissness and coldness in others , such an universal lassitude and indifferency , that it is enough to check the best inclinations that way , and to make them leave the world to be managed as it will. and there are some seasons wherein it is much harder to do good than in others . such i mean , when wickedness and vice have corrupted the very principles of mens minds ; when they account it a piece of wit to be profane , and a higher sort of breeding to despise religion and vertue ; when some are ready to pervert the best designs , and mix such mean and sinister ends of their own with them , and thereby blast them , that they come to nothing ; when others will not endure that good may be done , unless they may have the sole doing of it , and endeavour to lessen the reputation of all who are not altogether such as themselves ; when all imaginable arts are used to make government contemptible ; and the best purposes ineffectual ; lastly , when any who are bound to carry on the publick good , account it wisdom to do little or nothing in their places , and take all possible care to disoblige no body by doing their duties , for fear of evil consequences ; i say , when such seasons do happen , there is a very melancholy prospect of affairs , and little hopes of doing or of seeing good. ii. i now proceed to the good which we are to do with respect to others of the same nature and in a worse condition than our selves ; and therefore need our help and assistance . this is so remarkable a sense of doing good , that it hath almost appropriated the name to it self ; as good works are generally taken for works of charity . these are such , as all agree , that they cannot be wholly omitted without sin ; but the difficulty lies in stating the measure and seasons of the obligation to them . concerning which , these rules may be observed : . that the measures of duty in this case are very different , according to the different circumstances and conditions of persons . for , although the standing general rules of our duty are fixed and unalterable ; yet the particular obligations depend upon great variety of circumstances , as to those who are to do and to receive good. if the easiness of persons conditions in the world will afford their laying by a constant stock of charity , it will be always in readiness for such occasions , when we would be more willing to doe good if it were in our power ; but it is hardly possible to make such rules which may not give occasions for trouble to scrupulous minds , when they do not strictly observe them . but we are all so far bound to do good to those in want , that the not doing it according to our abilities and opportunities , is such a sin of omission as is inconsistent with true christianity ; but of those , every person is left to judge ; but so , as he must give an account of it at the great day . for , it is observable , that our saviour speaking of the proceedings then , particularly mentions the sins of omission with respect to the doing good to others . . there are particular seasons , when a greater measure of doing good is required than at others ; i. e. when persons suffer for religion and a good conscience ; when the necessities of people are more general and pressing ; when great objects of charity are certainly known to our selves and concealed from others ; when a present relief puts them into a way of doing good for themselves ; when god hath done good to us after a more remarkable manner than he hath to others ; when we do the more good , because we have done so much evil ; and thereby manifest the sincerity of our repentance , by bringing forth such fruits worthy of amendment of life ; when our calling and profession is to do good ; and we are bound to give the best examples to others according to our abilities ; when our religion suffers by not doing good , and our faith is questioned for want of good works ; lastly , when there are no such natural drains of charity , as children and near relations which need our assistance ; in these and many other instances of a like nature , there is so much greater obligation to the doing good , that it cannot be omitted without sin. ii. i now come in the last place , to consider the nature of the obligation we lie under to do the good we know . and the reason of considering this , is from the comparison of several duties with one another ; for we may be bound to several things at the same time , but we cannot perform them together ; and the difficulty then is to understand , which of these duties we may omit without sin. and the comparison may be three-fold ; . as to the nature of the duties . . as to the authority which enjoyns them . . as to the particular obligation we are under to do them . . as to the nature of our duties . for there are several kinds of things that are good ; and we are to have a different regard to them . some things are good because they are commanded ; and some things are commanded , because they are good ; and even god himself allows us to make a difference between these , when himself saith , i will have mercy , and not sacrifice ; although he required both ; but if it happens that both cannot be done , then he prefers the former , although his own honour seems more concerned in the latter . our saviour extends this rule to mercy on the souls of men ; and to mercy on our bodies , even out of the case of urgent or extreme necessity , which cannot be pleaded in the apostles case of plucking the ears of corn on the sabbath day . but from hence we have ground to infer , that when two duties interfere with one another , we are bound to prefer the greater and more substantial duty , and then the omission of the lesser is no sin. . as to the authority which requires them . there is no question , but when the authority of god and man do contradict each other , god is to be obeyed rather than man. but the authority of god's command is not equally clear in all cases ; for some things are required plainly and directly , and some things by consequence and parity of reason ; some things are declared and enforced by the gospel , others left to our own deductions and inferences ; some things are made positive commands for all ages , others are reported by way of example , but that example understood by the church to have the force of a command ; now , in all these and other like cases , we ought to have the greatest regard to plain , positive , moral and perpetual commands ; but withall , to have a due regard to consequential and usefull duties , especially where the church of god hath always so understood them , which is the best interpreter of such doubtfull cases , where the sense of it is truly delivered to us . . as to the obligation we are under ; and that is threefold . . that of nature , which is , to act according to reason ; and none can question that , but those who question , whether there be any such principle as reason in mankind ; and whosoever do so , have reason to begin at home . . of christianity , which supposes and enforces that of nature , and superadds many other duties which we are bound to perform as christians . . of our several relations , and particular imployments . as to the former , we are under great obligations from god and nature and christianity , to doe the duties which belong to us in them . as to the latter , they commonly require a stricter obligation by oath , to doe those things which otherwise we are not bound to doe . but being entered into it by a voluntary act of our own , we cannot omit such duties without sin , but where the circumstances of things do supersede the obligation . thus i have gon through , as clearly and distinctly as i could , the most usefull cases relating to sins of omission ; it remains now , that i make some application to our selves . when we reflect on our lives and actions , our sins of commission are apt to terrifie our consciences ; and make us very apprehensive of the wrath of god ; but how few are any ways concerned for their sins of omission , viz. for not discharging the duties of their places , for not doing the good they might and ought to have done , for not serving god with diligence and exemplary devotion , for not having their minds so fixed and intent upon him as they ought to have on their creatour and preserver and redeemer ? in a very corrupt age not to be remarkable for doing evil is a kind of saintship ; but how few are remarkable for doing good ? and yet that is one of the best characters of saintship . how much time is squandred away in vanity and folly ? and yet , how is that grudged which is spent in the worship of god ? o what a burthen it is to serve god , and spend any time in devotion ! how many excuses and pretences of business will such make rather than attend upon religous duties , which themselves would judge very frivolous in other matters ! and will god and conscience be satisfied with such unequal dealing , such notorious partiality ? let us deal faithfully and sincerely with our selves ; are we as ready to serve god as to serve our lusts and pleasures ? have we the same regard to his worship that we have to any thing we really love and esteem ? if not , there must be something very much amiss in the temper and disposition of the mind ; and we are highly concerned to look into it . i do not speak now of casual and accidental omissions of some particular duties at some times ; but of a general unconcernedness about matters of religion , as though they were either too high in the speculation , or too mean and low in the practice of them ; or at least , that it is no great matter one way or other , whether they mind them or not . this , i am afraid , is too much the temper of the age we live in ; which seems to be sinking into a strange indifferency about religion . it is possible for persons to have a zeal against some corrupt opinions and practices in religion ; and yet to have no true zeal or concernment for religion it self . for they may so much hate being imposed upon by false pretenders , that carry on an interest and faction , under the shew of religion , as from thence to suspect all religion to be nothing else ; which is as unreasonable , as for a man to conclude , that all merchants and jewellers are cheats , and that there are no such things ( nor can be ) as true diamonds in the world , because he hath fallen into the hands of such as would have cheated him with those which were counterfeit . and it is common with such who design to deceive , that what they want in sincerity , they make up with confidence . this is a good argument for caution and looking about us ; but it is none at all for our indifferency about matters of religion . for it is not here , as in jewels , which are fine things to look upon ; but the happiness of life doth not depend upon them . but would any one let alone things necessary to the support of life , because poison may be put into them ? we may take care to prevent it ; but we must have the necessaries of life ; and it would be great folly to die for want of sustenance , for fear of being poisoned . if we have no true love to god and religion , we must perish ; for there is no hopes of salvation without it . and if we go on in a careless indifferency about god and his service ; if we do not do our endeavours for suppressing wickedness and vice ; if we do not mind religion our selves , nor are incouraging it in others , it will shew that we have not that love of god and religion which we ought to have . therefore , if we regard the honour of god , our own salvation , the duties of our places , the interest of the nation , and the satisfaction of all that are wise and good , we must shake off all this coldness and indifferency about religion , and apply our selves heartily and sincerely to promote the great ends of it ; which are , to make persons good in this world , and happy in another . which god of his mercy grant , &c. finis . a catalogue of some books , published by the right reverend father in god , edward , lord bishop of worcester : and sold by henry mortlock , at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . sermons preached upon several occasions , with a discourse annexed concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ ; wherein crellius his answer to grotius is consider'd . in fol. the reformation justified in a sermon preached at guild-hall chapel , sept. . . before the lord mayor , &c. upon acts . . a sermon preached nov. . . at st. margarets westminster , upon matt. . , . a sermon preached before the king at white-hall , feb. . / upon heb. . . a sermon preached on the fast-day , nov. . . at st. margarets westminster , before the honourable house of commons , upon sam. . , . a sermon preached before the king at white-hall , march , / . upon matt. . . the mischief of separation , a sermon preached at guild-hall chapel , may . . before the lord mayor , &c. upon phil. . . protestant charity , a sermon preached at st. sepulchre's church on tuesday in easter week , . before the lord mayor , &c. upon gal. . . of the nature of superstition , a sermon preached at st. dunstan's west , march . . upon col. . . a sermon preached before the king , feb. . ● / . upon job . . . a sermon preached at a publick ordination at st. peter's cornhill , march . l / . upon tim. . . a sermon preached at white-hall , feb. . / . being the first friday in lent , upon luke . . scripture and tradition campared , in a sermon preached at guild-hall chapel , nov. . . upon col. . . a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall , feb. . / . upon pet. . . a sermon preached before the king and queen at white-hall , march . / upon eccles. . . christian magnanimity : a sermon preached in the cathedral-church at worcester , at the time of the assizes , sept. . . upon tim. . . a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall , march . / . on luke . . a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall , march . / . upon rom. . . the mysteries of the christian faith vindicated , in a sermon preached at st. lawrence-jewry , london , april . . upon tim. . . a sermon preached before the king and queen at white-hall , on christmas-day , . upon st. john . . the bishop of worcester's charge to the clergy of his diocese , in his primary visitation , begun at worcester , sept. . . the unreasonableness of a separa●ion from the new bishops : or a treatise out of ecclesiastial history . shewing , that although a bishop was unjustly deprived , neither he nor the church ever made a separation , if the successor was not an heretick . translated out of an antient greek manuscript in the publick library at oxford . the case of sees vacant , by an unjust or uncanonical deprivation , stated : in reply to a treatise , entituled , a vindication of the deprived bishops , &c. together with the several pamphlets lately published , as answers to the baroccian treatise : both by humphrey hody , d. d. fellow of wadham-college in oxford . the folly and unreasonableness of atheism demonstrated from the advantage and pleasure of a religious life ; the faculties of humane souls ; the structure of animate bodies , and the origin and frame of the world : in eight sermons , preached at the lecture founded by the honourable robert boyle , esq in the first year . by richard bentley , m. a. chaplain to the right reverend father in god , edward , lord bishop of worcester . the end of the catalogue . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e . . . . gal. . . ch . . ● . omisio non est nisi boni debiti ad quod aliquis tenetur , aqu. . . . . & . . . . reginald . prox. l. . c. . n. . . . q. . . victor . rel. . navarr . man. c. . n. . tolet. sum. l. . c. . azor. t. . l. . c. . gr. de valent . to. . disp. . qu. . to. . dis. . qu. . psal. . deut. . . . . james . . gen. . gal. . . lord bacon impetus l hil . mat. . . thess. . . matt. ● . . hos. . . matt. . . . . a sermon preached before the king & queen at white-hall, novemb. , by the right reverend father in god, edward lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached before the king & queen at white-hall, novemb. , by the right reverend father in god, edward lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . , [ ] p. printed for tho. bennet ...., london : . 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( . ) that their sins were of a high and scandalous nature , being an open affront both to the ceremonial and moral law. the offering of the lord was that which himself had appointed in the law of moses ; wherein it was expresly required , that the fat of the sacrifices of peace-offerings must be burnt upon the altar , and after that , the joints were to be divided , and the priest was to have his share , and the people that offer'd them the rest . but these sons of eli thought themselves too great to be tied up to such a strict observance of the niceties of the law ; and therefore they sent their servants to demand what they pleased without any regard to that order which the law appointed . it is possible , they might think ( although such lewd and profane persons are not much given to thinking ) that the matter was not great , how , or in what manner , they took the share which belong'd to them ; but god , who best knew what was pleasing to himself , saith , the sin of the young men was very great before the lord. for god will and ought to be served in his own way , and they , who thought to be wiser than his laws , smarted for their folly. thus nadab and abihu ( two brisk young men ) had a mind to try the experiment of offering strange fire before the lord ( not taking it from the altar as god had appointed . ) and what came of this presumptuous violation of god's law ? they were immediately consumed by a strange fire themselves ; for , it is said , a fire went out from the lord and devoured them , and they died before the lord ; i.e. they were struck dead with lightning upon the place , and their dead bodies were carried forth from before the sanctuary out of the camp ; that all the people might observe the truth of what moses said to aaron on this occasion : this is that the lord spake , saying , i will be sanctified in them that come nigh me , and before all the people i will be glorified . it is true , god did not punish hophni and phinehas in the same manner , who added great lewdness and immorality to their other faults ; but he severely threatens the whole house of eli for their sins ; and as a sign of the rest , he declares , that these profligate wretches should both be taken off the same day ; which was accordingly accomplished with dreadfull circumstances ; for , the ark of god was taken at the same time . ( . ) that the house of eli was advanced to that dignity which it then enjoy'd by an extraordinary method of providence : for , when nadab and abihu the sons of aaron were destroy'd , there remained eleazar and ithamar , ( for the other died childless , ) from them descended two branches of aaron's family . eleazar was of the elder house ; but eli , who descended from ithamar , was in possession of the high priesthood by god's approbation . and when abiathar in solomon's time was put by the high priesthood , it is said that he descended from ithamar and was of the house of eli ; and he was therefore thrust out that god might fulfill his word , which he spake concerning the house of eli in shiloh . by which we find , that god had raised up the house of eli after an extraordinary manner ; and no doubt , according to the wise methods of divine providence for an extraordinary end ; and we find no ill character fixed upon eli himself , although he had judged israel forty years ; but there were those about him and very near him , who were loose , profane and dissolute persons , and although , those who are most concerned , do commonly hear the last of the miscarriages of those related to them ; yet the cry was so great that it came to his ears and he took notice of it , and reproved them for it ; and he said to them , why do ye such things ? &c. the good old man seems to be heartily concerned and troubled for his sons follies ; but this did not answer god's end ; for the reason he gives of the heavy judgments denounced against his family , was , because his sons made themselves vile and he restrained them not . god expects something more than meer words or bare reproofs , where his honour and that of religion are so much concerned . but when profaneness , and looseness and irreligion crept in among them and grew too hard for the government , god threatens to do such a thing in israel , at which hath the ears of every one that heareth it shall tingle . i need go no farther . ( . ) that although god was justly provoked by the sins of the house of eli ; yet there was a concurrence of the peoples sins in bringing down such severe and astonishing judgments . there was no great loss in hophni and phinehas , unless they had been better ; but it was a terrible judgment to have the ark of god taken , and carried captive ; and thereby their whole religion exposed to scorn and contempt among their neighbours , who hated them for the sake of their religion . for when the idolatrous nations about them had corrupted themselves and the worship of god , he was pleased by the ministry of moses to set up a form of worship among the people of israel according to his own will. this gave great dissatisfaction to all their neighbours , and encreased their spite and malice against them ; which they were ready to shew on all occasions ; but never more than when the ark of god was taken captive and carried about in triumph among them : for this was the symbol of gods particular presence among the people of israel . the tabernacle with all its rich and admirable furniture , was as his court ; but the holy of holies , as his chamber of presence ; and there the ark was the place where god gave his answers to his people on great and solemn occasions . and what could be more grievous and dishonourable to them , than to have this ark of god carried away by their enemies ? for , then the name of the whole nation might have been ichabod , for the glory was departed from israel . but was all this meerly for the sins of hophm and phinehas ? no ; the punishment on that account related to the house of eli ; but this was a judgment on the whole nation : and god himself gives a sad account of it , but it was such , as reached to the nature and extent of the judgment . go ye now , saith god in the prophet ieremiah , unto my place which was in shiloh , where i set my name at the first , and see what i did to it for the wickedness of my people israel . so that here was a complication of the sins of all sorts to bring down so heavy a judgment upon them . and thus i have endeavour'd to clear the way towards the right apprehending the full scope and design of these words , them that honour me i will honour ; and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed . wherein are two things to be spoken to ; i. the nature of that honour which is due to god. ii. the rules and measures whereby god bestows honour on mankind . them that honour me i will honour ; and they that despise me , &c. ( . ) the nature of that honour which is due to god. there are three sorts of men to be consider'd with respect to the honour due to god ; ( . ) such as despise him instead of honouring him . ( . ) such as pretend to honour him but do not . ( . ) such as give him that real honour which is due to him . ( . ) there are such as despise him instead of honouring him . such as the sons of eli here mention'd , who are said to be the sons of belial , who knew not the lord. a strange character of such , who had not only the general advantages of the people of israel to know god above all nations of the world ; but a particular obligation to serve and worship him ! but those do not know god who despise his service . it is impossible to despise infinite goodness and power and wisdom ; for those are things , which all that understand them cannot but reverence and highly esteem . for a poor creature to despise his creatour ; or one that lives upon the bounty of another to despise his benefactour ; seems to be such an inconsistency in morality , as if human nature were uncapable of it . but notwithstanding , god himself , who knows the most secret thoughts of mens hearts , saith here , they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed ; although god cannot be despised for his glorious perfections ; yet his authority may be despised , when men presumptuously break his laws ; when they do not regard what he hath commanded or forbidden ; when they profess to know god , but in works they deny him ; when they own a god , and yet live as if there were none ; giving themselves over to a profane and irreligious temper of mind , if not to all sorts of wickedness in their lives . and if once such a temper prevails , there is nothing to be expected but an inundation of the other . for those who despise god and religion can have little regard to the differences of good and evil ; and when once the awe of god and conscience is gone , there is nothing can be effectual enough to restrain the violence of natural inclinations . there are two sorts of profane persons too easie to be observed in the world. some are profane in their practises ; who give way to their sensual inclinations and pursue them , as they see occasion , without reflection or consideration . these do not presently shake off the principles of religion and vertue , although they act against them . they know they ought to fear god and to abstain from evil ; but they do neither , leading a loose , dissolute , and wicked life , although if they would but consider what they do , they might soon be convinced of the folly of their actions ; because they act against those principles which they have seen no reason to question , but they have not the grace and resolution to observe them . while they continue thus , there is some hold to be taken of them ; and although their sins be against conscience , yet they are not past hope ; because there is some life left , but under great struglings and decays . but there are others ( i wish i could only say there had been ) who are profane out of principles ; who not only neglect religion , but despise it ; and affront and ridicule it , as far as they dare with regard to their own safety . the other are mischievous to the world by example , but these by design ; those are enemies to themselves and to such as follow them ; but these ought to be look'd on , as the subverters of all that is good , and the promoters of all evil and mischief , and therefore as the truest enemies to mankind , and the pest and bane of humane society ; the dishonour and reproach of their age and country ; and not meerly enemies to mankind , but to god himself , the best and wisest being in the world ; whom , as far as in them lies , they endeavour to dethrone from his soveraignty over it . and where such monsters of impiety grow numerous and bold , they bode the most fatal consequences to such a people , where they appear without a publick detestation of them . ( . ) there are such who pretend to honour god , but do not . honour is an act of the mind , ( if it be spoken of real and inward honour , and not of the external signs of it ) and it is in him that gives , and not in him that receives it . but yet those who intend to give honour to another , may do it in such an improper and unsuitable manner , that he for whom it is intended , may look on it as an affront and dishonour to him . therefore he that would give true honour to another must have a just apprehension of his worth and excellency , and give it in such a manner as is most becoming and agreeable to him . now , there are two ways whereby men may be guilty of dishonouring god under a pretence of honouring him . ( . ) by entertaining false notions of god in their minds , and worshipping their own imaginations instead of him. ( . ) by doing honour to him not according to his nature and will , but according to their own intentions and imaginations . ( . ) by false notions of god in their minds , and by worshipping their own imaginations instead of him ; i.e. when persons form in their minds false imaginations or conceptions of him ; and so give their worship not to the true god , but to an idol of their own fancy . but there is a great deal of difference between such conceptions of god in our minds , which fall short of the perfections of the divine nature , ( as all ours must do for want of faculties to comprehend him ) and such which attribute something to him which is unworthy of him . not , that if any happen to be mistaken in their conceptions of god , we must presently charge them with idolatry ; for the scripture makes that to lie in an open and publick dishonouring of god by giving that worship which is alone due to him to any thing besides himself ; it is the setting up of another interest among mankind in opposition to his power and soveraignty ; it is such an exposing the proper object of divine worship as to render it mean and contemptible : for nothing can be a greater disparagement to the divine nature , than to be supposed to be like the work of mens hands ; or to have any of his own creatures to have that worship given to them which belongs to himself ; and so it takes away the due apprehension , which ought to be always maintained of the infinite distance between god and the workmanship of his hands . but these consequences do not reach to inward false conceptions of god ; yet they ought by all possible means to be avoided by those who would give unto god in their minds the honour which is due unto him . and to avoid all wrong apprehensions concerning him , we must settle in our minds such a fixed notion of him , as results from those evidences which prove his being . for , the invisible things of god , saith the apostle , are understood by the things that are made ; i.e. the visible frame of the world doth afford such plain evidence of the wisdom , power and goodness of the maker of them , that from thence we may form a distinct and clear notion of god in our minds , as a being infinitely wise , powerfull and good. this is the most natural , easie and orderly conception we can have of god in our minds ; because it arises from the same arguments which prove his being . and when our minds are fixed and settled herein , the next thing is to exclude all mean and unworthy thoughts of him , as inconsistent with his divine perfections . therefore , whatever savours of impotency or cruelty ; whatever tends to abate our reverence , to lessen our esteem , to damp our affections , or to cool our devotion towards him , cannot be agreeable to those just conceptions we ought to have always in our minds concerning him . for the honour of god doth not lie in having such terrible apprehensions of his majesty and power and justice as may drive us into horrour and despair ; but in entertaining such an opinion of his wisdom , goodness and loving-kindness as may incline us to love him and to trust in his mercy . and then god is truely honoured by us , when we preserve a deep sense and awe of him upon our minds ; when we adore him for his infinite perfections ; when we esteem him as the most proper object of our love , as well as of our fear ; when we put our trust and confidence in him , and depend upon him as to the conveniencies of this life and the happiness of another ; when the desire of our soul is towards him , and our meditation of him is frequent and serious and delightfull to us ; when we set him always before us , and direct the course of our lives and actions to the pleasing him ; when we dare not wilfully do any thing to offend him ; but make it our chief study and business to do what tends to his honour , and to promote it in the world. it is therefore of very great consequence , as to the whole course of religion to keep up in our minds , such a true and setled notion of god , as may influence our devotion , reform our disorders , inflame our affections , and keep us from being led aside by the violent and impetuous heats of imagination . for this is the true source of most of the extravagancies of mankind about religion ; they have no true notion of god in their minds , but they dread his power , and know not how to please him ; and so run from one thing to another , through the several methods of superstitions , or enthusiasm , as agrees best with their fancies ; which is so unstable and uncertain a principle , that no steady course of religion can be steer'd by it . a man who acts by imagination , is like a ship at sea without anchor or compass , which rouls up and down just as the wind and the waves carry her . but reason and understanding is a steady and uniform principle , and being well fixed from a due and thorough consideration of the nature and will of god , keeps the mind even and constant , and goes on its course as well as it can , and makes its way , notwithstanding the force of the current and tide of natural inclination be against it ; and that the clouds and vapors of imagination often hinder the freedom of its motion . nothing is so uncomfortable , nothing so ungovernable as a restless imagination ; and when it is oppressed with a religious melancholy , then every thing seems dark and confused ; we neither know god nor our selves as we ought to doe , and we must judge amiss when we judge by such a false light : and therefore our wisest course in such a case is to be humble and patient ; to suspend any peremptory judgment as to our selves till we have clearer light , and those mists and vapors are dispersed , which darken and perplex our thoughts . ( . ) men dishonour god , when they pretend to honour him , not according to his will , but their own intentions and imaginations . there are some things practised and defended in the christian world , which one would hardly think possible to have ever prevailed , had it not been that they thought to doe honour to god by them . i shall not insist upon the pretences in the church of rome of honouring god against his will , by giving divine and religious worship to images , saints and angels , &c. because though there be a great deal of folly and superstition and real dishonour to god in them , yet there is no such mischief to the rest of mankind , unless they take up an imagination that god will be honoured by rooting out and destroying all such as cannot comply with them in their superstitious follies . but as the true spirit of religion wears off , that of persecution often comes in the place of it , like wasps and hornets out of a dead carkass . thus in the iewish church in our saviour's time , there was the same outward shew and pomp of religion , which had been in their best times ; and our saviour himself frequented both the synagogue worship and the solemn festivals at the temple ; nay he allow'd that the scribes and pharisees sate in moses's chair , and that his disciples should observe what they taught agreeable to the law ; but yet , he elsewhere charges them that by their traditionary doctrines they had enervated the force of the law ; and therefore they did honour him with their lips , but their heart was far from him ; i.e. they had no true love of god or their neighbour , but they thought to make amends for all that , by a wonderfull zeal for their own traditions and the lesser things of the law ; which they shewed not only by an unwearied diligence to gain proselytes , but by destroying all such as opposed their designs ; and that not in an ordinary way of passion and revenge , but they would needs have all this to be done for the honour and service of god. whosoever killeth you will think that he doth god service . a strange kind of service indeed , to take away the lives of his best and most usefull servants ! but although no religion in the wold be so directly contrary to all acts of cruelty and inhumanity as the christian is , yet upon the degeneracy of that , the same kind of spirit hath risen up and prevailed over too great a part of the christian world. but especially the very same jewish spirit of zeal and hypocrisy and cruelty hath enter'd in these last ages into a society of men ( whom i need not name ) who have undermined the genuine principles of morality , inflamed the spirits of princes to all the effects of a cruel war and a merciless persecution ; and used their utmost endeavours to root out all such as dare not sacrifice their consciences to the will of a prince under their direction : and which adds to all this , they have the impudence to assume that motto to themselves , ad majorem dei gloriam ; as though they aimed at nothing but doing greater honor to god. such as these go beyond hophni and phinehas ; for their wickedness , although great , was confined to a narrow compass , but these disperse themselves into all states and kingdoms , and carry on the same uniform design , viz. to doe all the mischief they can under the pretence of advancing the honour of god. ( . ) but certainly there is a way left to give to god that honour which is due to him ; otherwise , it were to little purpose to say , them that honour me i will honour . but i shall not take in here all the ways how we may honour god , but consider that which is most proper to the design of these words . for which we are to observe that the external worship and service of god was in general , well enough kept up and observed in the tabernacle at shiloh . there the high-priest attended , the daily sacrifices were offer'd , and the people resorted thither at the solemn feasts from all parts of the land : but the great examples of wickedness in the sons of eli had spread themselves so far , that the people were generally corrupted , and the best part of their religion , which lies in a reformation of manners , was almost gone . there were some pious and devout persons , such as eli himself ( a good man but a bad magistrate , being remiss and careless in the execution of his office ) and no doubt , many among the people , as well as elkanah and hannah , were devout and serious in the service of god and other duties of religion ; but yet god himself takes notice of the wickedness of his people israel , at the time when the ark was removed from shiloh . and therefore we have reason to take particular notice of that passage to eli concerning the reason of the punishment of his house , because his sons made themselves vile and he restrained them not . for , their sins were of a very contagious nature , and by not restraining them , the people were run into a great degree of looseness and profaneness . so that it was not for eli's personal miscarriages , that god thought himself so dishonoured by him , but for want of taking due care for the suppressing profaneness and corruption of manners in others . and this shews the true way how god may and ought to be honoured by those who are bound to take care of others ; viz. by giving all due encouragement to true religion and vertue , and by making use of the most effectual means for suppressing irreligion and profaneness . and this indeed is a great and noble design fit for the greatest minds and persons of the highest station to be employed about . i cannot deny , that it is a difficult work ; for it is easier to subdue the bodies than the passions of men ; and how many will rather venture their lives than mortify their lusts ? and let them pretend what they will , we find that they will sooner part with any thing than with their sins . do we not daily see that they will let go honour , reputation , interest , health , and the hopes of heaven , rather than those vices they have been accustomed to the practice of ? how can we then imagine , that the meer fears of the execution of humane laws should presently restrain those , whom no fear of hell or damnation could hitherto reform ? but yet a stop may and ought to be put to the insolent growth of profaneness ; for if it be suffered to be too hard for our laws , it will in time be too hard for all sort of government . yet how shall a stop be put to it under such difficulties ? for it cannot be denied , that we have excellent laws against vice and debauchery , and that magistrates have had sufficient countenance from authority for the due execution of them . but yet the complaints are great of a mighty overflowing of all sorts of wickedness still among us ; i hope they are not all true ; but yet i am afraid , there is too much ground for them . what is the reason of such a complaint of profaneness and irreligion among us at a time we pretend so much to reformation ? it is no wonder that the bad examples of those who ought to reform others bring vice into fashion ; but when that cannot be alledged , what is the reason that good examples do so little towards the reforming others ? it is easie to resolve all into the corruption of humane nature ; but that is a general answer which serves for all times and places , and most suppose them alike : and if it be a good and sufficient answer , it is to little purpose to talk of laws , religion and reformation : for unless they may have some power to alter and amend the course of mens actions , they signify very little to the real benefit of mankind , no more than sea-marks do towards hindring the course of the tide ; but meer examples , although of excellent use to all ingenuous minds , yet to others they are but like statues of mercury in the road , which point to the right way , but men will go which way they please notwithstanding . therefore to laws and examples the magistrates power must be added , which was appointed for this purpose , to be a terrour to those that do evil , as well as an encouragement to those that do well . and then the apostle supposeth the sword is born in vain , when the magistrate is not the minister of god in this respect ; a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil . it was the great and just honour of princes of old , that by their means , mankind was reduced from a rude and disorderly kind of life , to the practice of civility and good manners ; and it is as great a foundation of honour still , when men are so much apostatized from them , to bring them back again to the due order and decency of living . the case is much harder of those who are degenerate under laws , than of those who were so without them ; for they have learnt to despise their remedy , and by arts and subtilties to avoid the force of that , which was intended for their good. but , however , none ought to be discouraged from so excellent a design ; which recommends it self to all wise and good men , and will never want the assistance and prayers of all that are so ; and god himself will in an especial manner give honour to those who thus honour him in his own way ; by using the most effectual means for the reforming the manners of men. but what are those ways which may be called effectual ? it 's true , that depends upon the favour and blessing of god ; but it is no hard matter for us to judge what are the most likely means to be effectual . such as , ( . ) an universal discountenancing of all sorts of vice and profaneness , be the persons of what rank or quality soever . for , if those of the house of eli be suffer'd to transgress , the people will follow their examples ; although the good old man did not like their doings , but he did not take care enough to restrain them . ( . ) an even , steady , vigorous and impartial execution of the laws against looseness and debauchery ; so that it may not look like a sudden heat or design of popularity , but proceeding from a due and well-temper'd zeal for god and religion . ( . ) a wise choice of fit instruments to pursue so good an end ; i mean such as iethro recommended to moses , men of courage and integrity , fearing god and hating covetousness . and such i hope are to be found in the several parts of the nation . ( . ) lastly , a diligent inspection into the behaviour of those who are the proper and immediate instruments for carrying on so good a design . for , if there be no inspection afterwards , it will be look'd on as a meer matter of form , or an order given out to satisfie the importunities of some and the clamours of others . it were to be wished , that all who are imploy'd in such a work had an equal mixture of wisdom and zeal ; but it is not possible to hinder some from having unequal shares of these ; and it is great pity so good a cause should miscarry through the indiscretion of any who are zealous for it . on the other side , it is possible that some who pretend to an equal zeal for it in general , may use such artifices and fair pretences , as may effectually baffle and undermine it , while they seem to be concerned to promote it . so that , what through the intemperate heats of some , the coldness and indifferency of others , and the certain averseness all bad men have to any real design of reformation , there is a necessity for such an affair to be often look'd into , and an account taken of the management of it , if any great advantage be expected by it . and surely no greater advantage can be expected as to this world , than from such a design managed , as it ought to be . for , what can we propose to our selves , that can tend more to promote the honour of almighty god , which we ought above all other things to be concerned for . for , the righteous god loveth righteousness ; and he abhorrs all kind of wickedness : what then can be more pleasing to him , than to have all sorts of impiety and profaneness discountenanced , punished , and if it be possible , rooted out ? what can tend more to the honour of his vicegerents , than to shew so much of a resemblance to him , as to love what god loves , and to hate what he hates ; and to imploy their power for the same end which god himself doth his , viz. to advance his glory and to do good to mankind ? what can tend more to the honour of our church and nation , than to let the world see by such good works as these , what the reformation is , which we aim at ; not meerly of some disputable points , as to doctrine and practise , ( which we have earnestly contended for , and with great reason , ) but a true and serious reformation of the hearts and lives of men ; without which all our other pretences will fall infinitely short of what god expects from us , and the very name of reformation will be a reproach to us . ii. i now proceed to the second particular , viz. the rules and measures which god observes in distributing honour among men , them that honour me , i will honour ; but they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed . which may be understood two ways ; i. as to the societies of men which have one common interest . ii. as to the interests and honour of particular persons . i. as to such societies of men , which have one common interest . and so it implies , that the welfare and reputation , and flourishing condition of such , depends upon their zeal and concernment for god and religion . but here , we meet with very great difficulties ; for reason and experience seem to contradict each other about it . on the one side , it seems most agreeable to the justice of divine providence to reward and punish those in this world who will not be capable of being rewarded or punished in another ; for there will be no communities in another world. but on the other side , we cannot deny matter of common experience ; for , how long have the turkish and papal monarchies ( to name no other ) flourished , when the seven churches of asia , and the churches of africa have been long since destroyed ? how strangely hath mahometism spread in the eastern parts of the world ? and what a check hath there been , upon the reformation in these western parts ? with what a mighty torrent did it prevail at first ? then it stood at a stand , and hath of late years gone so much backward , and suffer'd so very much in many parts of it : and yet we think , and that very justly , that the honour of god is concerned in all this . what shall we say to the insolent oppressors of mankind who make no conscience of ruining cities and countries , and offering violence to the bodies and consciences of men to advance and support their own grandeur ; and yet have been suffer'd to prevail so far as to be made an argument against providence by atheistical men ? it is to be hoped that god in his own time will vindicate his honour and clear this point to the satisfaction of all reasonable men ; but yet , we cannot penetrate into the wisdom and secrets of providence . god will ( no doubt ) take care of his own honour ; but he is not bound to give such men an account of the ways and methods and seasons of his doing it . he often raises up a nation fit for his purpose , and makes them as a scourge to neighbour nations ; and when they have done his work , he suffers them to be humbled , if not destroyed , by the same methods they have used to others . sometimes he raises up one kingdom and nation against another , when their sins make them ripe for vengeance ; and so he takes the potsheards of the earth and breaks them upon one another ; and thus , by their mutual punishment , they both become the executioners of his wrath ; and we cannot determine by the event which was in the greater guilt . so that god takes care of his own honour , by methods we are not able to comprehend . for who can weigh the nations in a balance , and determine how far the sins of one doth exceed the other ? and if we cannot know the number and aggravation of a peoples sins , we can never fix the measures and degrees of their punishments . but , however , some things are certain ; ( . ) that the sins of a nation do naturally tend to the weakness and dishonour of it . thus a factious , seditious , turbulent temper not only is the reproach of a people ; but the ready way to destroy it . and yet it hath so happen'd , that when the factions have been almost equally poised , as at rome and carthage , they have raised such an emulation between them , which by their endeavours to out-vie each other , hath for some time preserved their countrey . who can deny that luxury and debauchery and all sorts of intemperance , not only sink the reputation of a people , but effeminates and softens them , and makes them careless and idle , regardless of any thing but what makes for their own ease and voluptuousness ? and in all human probability , such a nation must sink , when a people of more wisdom and courage and resolution , makes it their business to overcome them . so that these sorts of sins are natural causes of weakning the power and interest of a nation . but there are other sins , as profaneness and contempt of god and religion , hypocrisy , idolatry , &c. and of such , which work as moral causes , god himself is the only judge , when the measure of their iniquity is filled up . ( . ) sometimes god steps out of his ordinary method and course of providence either in a way of judgment or mercy . and then he more particularly shews , that those that honour him , he will honour ; and those who despise him shall be lightly esteemed . these things are not every days experience , but when they do happen they deserve to be taken notice of , in a more than ordinary manner . aristotle , who was no great friend to providence , as to human affairs , professes , that he did not know what to make of the extraordinary success some persons had in their affairs , without any extraordinary visible causes . it is possible , he might have the success of his macedonian friends in his thoughts ; who swallow'd up the common-wealths of greece , as so many morsels , and then destroy'd the mighty persian monarchy . but in these cases , he allows a divine impulse , carrying them on beyond the ordinary measures of human prudence ; and over-ruling so many things in order to success , as nothing but a divine hand could manage . and when great advantages come to a nation in such a manner , a more than ordinary degree of thankfulness is justly expected , that god may be honoured in a particular manner for the deliverance he works by such means , and the mercies he bestows or continues thereby . ( . ) as to particular persons ; how far this holds , will appear by these things : ( . ) that esteem and honour naturally follows the opinion of anothers desert or excellency . for it is not an arbitrary thing , but is founded on the supposition of something that deserves it . it is like the assent given to mathematical evidence , which is not because they will do it , but because they cannot help it . ( . ) the sincere practise of piety and vertue doth command esteem and reverence . hypocrisy indeed lessens it to the utmost degree ; because it argues a mean and false temper of mind ; but there is nothing in true religion but what tends to raise esteem ; for it implies all the things which are allow'd by all persons to gain honour among men. for one that is truely religious is a true lover of god and of mankind ; he is gratefull to his benefactour , and always owns in the most solemn manner his dependence upon him , both by prayers and praises ; he is ready to doe good to all men , as far as is consistent with his duty to god ; he is just , righteous , and mercifull , sober and temperate in the whole course of his life ; he acts not by chance or for by ends ; but by a fixed principle of being and doing good ; he keeps himself within the bounds which god hath set him ; and with chearfulness and resolution sets himself to doe and suffer his will ; and hath so much courage , as to dare to doe his duty , and is afraid of nothing so much as offending god. and now let any one judge , whether there be any thing mean or contemptible in all this ; whether every one that hears this character doth not wish it belonged to himself . and that is a certain token that it brings honour and esteem with it . let me then , for a conclusion of all , recommend the practise of religion and vertue to all such as are the most concerned for honour and esteem . the world is always vain enough to flatter greatness , either out of weakness or design ; but true greatness of mind despises flattery ; and where that is wanting in any , this very flatterer despises them . but this is a way to be above the reach of contempt ; to doe iustly , and to love mercy , and to walk humbly with god ; and these are the things which god himself assures us are the main parts of our duty . if we be careless of god's honour and service now , the time will shortly come , when we shall heartily wish we had been otherwise . for , how great soever your honour be now , you and that together must in a little time be laid in the dust. and then the main difference will be according to the honour we have done to god ; for , although the text doth hold good , as to this world , as i have already shew'd ; yet the most glorious accomplishment of it will be in the life to come : for , then it will be made evident to all mankind , that those that honour him , god will honour ; and they that despise him shall be lightly esteemed . finis . errata . pag. . line . for most , reade must . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e v. . levit. . . v. , . v. , , , . v. . levit. . . levit. . . ch . . v. . ch . . v. . ch . . v. . v. . v. . v. . v. . ch . . v. . levit. . . chron. . . numb . . . chron. . , . kings . . sam. . . ch . . v. , , , . ch . . v. . ch . . v. . ch . . v. . jerem. . . sam. . . titus . . rom. . . luke . . matt. . . matt. . . john . . rom. . . ver . . exod. . . eudem . l. . c. . micah . . origines sacræ, or, a rational account of the grounds of christian faith, as to the truth and divine authority of the scriptures and the matters therein contained by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) origines sacræ, or, a rational account of the grounds of christian faith, as to the truth and divine authority of the scriptures and the matters therein contained by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed by r.w. for henry mortlock ..., london : . errata: prelim. p. 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in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible -- evidences, authority, etc. history, ancient. apologetics -- early works to . apologetics -- history -- th century. theology, doctrinal. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion origines sacrae , or a rational account of the grounds of christian faith , as to the truth and divine authority of the scriptures , and the matters therein contained . by edward stillingfleet rector of sutton in bedfordshire . pet. . . for we have not followed cunningly devised fables , when we made known to you the power and coming of our lord jesus christ , but were eye-witnesses of his majesty . neque religio ulla sine sapientia suscipienda est , nec ulla sine religione probanda sapientia . lactant. de fals . relig . cap. . london , printed by r. w. for henry mortlock at the sign of the phoen●● in st. pauls church-yard near the little north-door . . to his most honoured friend and patron , sr. roger burgoine , knight and baronet . sir , it was the early felicitie of moses , when exposed in an ark of nilotick papyre , to be adopted into the favour of so great a personage as the daughter of pharaoh : such another ark is this vindication of the writings of that divine and excellent person exposed to the world in ; and the greatest ambition of the author of it , is , to have it received into your patronage and protection . but although the contexture and frame of this treatise be far below the excellency and worth of the subject ( as you know the ark in which moses was put , was of bulrushes daubed with slime and pitch ) yet when you please to cast your eye on the matter contained in it , you will not think it beneath your favour , and unworthy your protection . for if truth be the greatest present which god could bestow , or man receive ( according to that of plurarch ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) then certainly those truths deserve our most ready acceptance , which are in themselves of greatest importance , and have the greatest evidence that they come from god. and although i have had the happiness of so near relation to you , & acquaintance with you , as to know how little you need such discourses which tend to settle the foundations of religion , which you have raised so happy a superstructure upon ; yet withal i consider what particular kindness the souls of all good men bear to such designs , whose end is to assert and vindicate the truth and excellency of religion . for those who are enriched themselves with the inestimable treasure of true goodness and piety are far from that envious temper , to think nothing valuable but what they are the sole possessors of ; but such are the most satisfied themselves , when they see others not only admire but enjoy what they have the highest estimation of . were all who make a shew of religion in the world really such as they pretend to be , discourses of this nature vvould be no more seasonable then the commendations of a great beauty to one vvho is already a passionate admirer of it ; but on the contrary vve see how common it is for men first to throw dirt in the face of religion , and then perswade themselves it is its natural complexion ; they represent it to themselves in a shape least pleasing to them , and then bring that as a plea why they give it no better entertainment . it may justly seem strange , that true religion , which contains nothing in it but what is truly noble and generous , most rational and pleasing to the spirits of all good men , should yet suffer so much in its esteem in the world , through those strange and uncouth vizards it is represented under . some accouting the life and practice of it , as it speaks subduing our wills to the will of god ( which is the substance of all religion ) a thing too low and mean for their rank and condition in the world , while others pretend a quarrel against the principles of it as unsatisfactory to humane reason . thus religion suffers with the author of it between two thieves , and it is hard to define which is more injurious to it , that which questions the principles , or that which despiseth the practice of it . and nothing certainly will more incline men to believe that we live in an age of prodigies , then that there should be any such in the christian world who should account it a piece of gentility to despise religion , and a piece of reason to be atheists . for if there be any such things in the world as a true height and magnanimity of spirit , if there be any solid reason and depth of judgement , they are not only consistent with , but only attainable by a true generous spirit of religion . but if we look at that which the loose and profane world is apt to account the greatest gallantry , we shall find it made up of such pitiful ingredients , which any skilful & rational mind will be ashamed to plead for , much less to mention them in competition with true goodness and unfeigned piety . for how easie is it to observe such who would be accounted the most high and gallant spirits , to quarry on such mean preys which only tend to satisfie their brutish appetites , or flesh revenge with the blood of such who have stood in the way of that ayery title , honour ! or else they are so little apprehensive of the in ward worth and excellency of humane nature , that they seem to envy the gallantry of peacocks , and strive to outvy them in the gayety of their plumes ; such vvho are , as seneca saith , ad similitudinem parietum extrinsecùs culti , vvho imitate the walls of their houses in the fairness of the outsides , but matter not vvhat rubbish there lies within . the utmost of their ambition is to attain enervatam felicitatem quâ permadescunt animi , such a felicity as evigorates the soul by too long steeping , it being the nature of all terrestrial pleasures that they do 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by degrees consume reason by effeminating and softening the intellectuals . must we appeal then to the judgement of sardanapalus concerning the nature of felicity , or enquire of apicius what temperance is ? or desire that sybarite to define magnanimity , who fainted to see a man at hard labour ? or doth now the conquest of passions , forgiving injuries , doing good , self-denial , humility , patience under crosses , which are the real expressions of piety , speak nothing more noble & generous then a luxurious , malicious , proud , and impatient spirit ? is there nothing more becoming and agreeable to the soul of man , in exemplary piety , and a holy well-orderd conversation , then in the lightness and vanity ( not to say rudeness and debaucheries ) of those whom the world accounts the greatest gallants ? is there nothing more graceful and pleasing in the sweetness , candour , and ingenuity of a truly christian temper and disposition , then in the revengeful , implacable spirit of such whose honour lives and is fed by the blood of their enemies ? is it not more truly honourable and glorious to serve that god who commands the world , then to be a slave to those passions and lusts which put men upon continual hard service , and torment them for it when they have done it ? were there nothing else to commend religion to the minds of men , besides that tranquillity and calmness of spirit , that serene and peaceable temper which follows a good conscience whereever it dwells , it were enough to make men welcom that guest which brings such good entertainment with it . whereas the amazements , horrours , and anxieties of mind , which at one time or other haunt such who prostitute their consciences to a violation of the lawes of god , and the rules of rectified reason , may be enough to perswade any rational person , that impiety is the greatest folly , and irreligion , madness . it cannot be then but matter of great pity to consider that any persons whose birth and education hath raised them above the common people of the world , should be so far their own enemies , as to observe the fashion more then the rules of religion , and to study complements more then themselves , and read romances more then the sacred scriptures , which alone are able to make them wise to salvation . but sir , i need not mention these things to you , unless it be to let you see the excellency of your choice , in preferring true vertue and piety above the ceremony and grandeur of the world. go on , sir , to value and measure true religion not by the uncertain measures of the world , but by the infallible dictates of god himself in his sacred oracles . were it not for these , what certain foundation could there be for our faith to stand on ? and who durst venture his soul , as to its future condition , upon any authority less then the infallible veracity of god himself ? what certain directions for practice should we have , what rule to judge of opinions by , had not god out of his infinite goodness provided and preserved this authentick instrument of his will to the world ? what a strange religion would christianity seem , should we frame the model of it from any other thing then the word of god ? without all controversie the disesteem of the scriptures upon any pretence whatsoever , is the decay of religion , and through many windings and turnings leads men at last into the very depth of atheism . whereas the frequent and serious conversing with the mind of god in his word , is incomparably useful , not only for keeping up in us a true notion of religion ( which is easily mistaken , when men look upon the face of it in any other glass then that of the scriptures ) but likewise for maintaining a powerful sense of religion in the souls of men , and a due valuation of it , whatever its esteem or entertainment be in the world. for though the true genuine spirit of christianity ( which is known by the purity and peaceableness of it ) should grow never so much out of credit with the world , yet none who heartily believe the scriptures to be the word of god , and that the matters revealed therein are infallibly true , will ever have the less estimation of it . it must be confessed that the credit of religion hath much sufferd in the age we live in through the vain pretences of many to it , who have only acted a part in it for the sake of some p●ivate interests of their own . and it is the usual logick of atheists , crimine ab uno disce omnes ; if there be any hypocrites , all who make shew of religion , are such , on which account the hypocrisie of one age makes way for the atheism of the next . but how unreasonable and unjust that imputation is , there needs not much to discover , unless it be an argument there are no true men in the world , because there are so many apes which imitate them ; or that there are no jewels , because there are so many counterfeits . and blessed be god , our age is not barren of instances of real goodness and unaffected piety ; there being some such generous spirits as dare love religion without the dowry of interest , and manifest their affection to it in the plain dress of the scriptures , without the paint and set-offs which are added to it by the several contending parties of the christian world. were there more such noble spirits of religion in our age , atheism would want one of the greatest pleas which it now makes against the truth of religion ; for nothing enlarges more the gulf of atheism , then that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that wide passage which lies between the faith and lives of men pretending to be christians . i must needs say there is nothing seems more strange and unaccountable to me , then that the practice of the unquestionable duties of christianity should be put out of countenance , or slighted by any who own , profess , and contend for the principles of it . can the profession of that be honourable , whose practice is not ? if the principles be true , why are they not practised ? if they be not true , why are they professed ? you see , sir , to what an unexpected length my desire to vindicate the honour as well as truth of religion , hath drawn out this present address . but i may sooner hope for your pardon in it , then if i had spent so much paper after the usual manner of dedications , in representing you to your self or the world. sir , i know you have too much of that i have been commending , to delight in your own deserved praises , much less in flatteries , which so benign a subject might easily make ones pen run over in . and therein i might not much have digressed from my design , since i know few more exemplary for that rare mixture of true piety , and the highest civility together , in whom that inestimable jewel of religion is placed in a most sweet , affable , and obliging temper . but although none will be more ready on any occasion with all gratitude to acknowledge the great obligations you have laid upon me ; yet i am so far sensible of the common vanity of epistles dedicatory , that i cannot so heartily comply with them in any thing , as in my hearty prayers to almighty for your good and welfare , and in subscribing my self sir , your most humble and affectionate servant , iune . . ed. stillingfleet . the preface to the reader . it is neither to satisfie the importunity of friends , nor to prevent false copies ( which and such like excuses i know are expected in usual prefaces ) that i have adventured abroad this following treatise : but it is out of a just resentment of the affronts and indignities which have been cast on religion ; by such , who account it a matter of judgement to disbelieve the scriptures , and a piece of wit to dispute themselves out of the possibility of being happy in another world : when yet the more acute and subtile their arguments are , the greater their strength is against themselves , it being impossible there should be so much wit and subtilty in the souls of men , were they not of a more excellent nature then they imagine them to be . and how contradictious is it for such persons to be ambitious of being cryed up for wit and reason , whose design is to degrade the rational soul so far below her self , as to make her become like the beasts that perish ! if now the weight and consequence of the subject , and the too great seasonableness of it ( if the common fame of the large spread of atheism among us be true ) be not sufficient apology for the publishing this book , i am resolved rather to undergo thy censure , tben be beholding to any other . the intendment therefore of this preface is only to give a brief account of the scope , design , and method of the following books , although the view of the contents of the chapters might sufficiently acquains thee with it . how far i have been either from transeribing , or a design to excusse out of the hands of their admirers , the several writings on the behalf of religion in general , or christianity in particular ( especially mornay , gro●ius , amyraldus , &c. ) may easily appear by comparing what is contained in their books and this together . had i not thought something might be said , if not more fully and rationally , yet more suitably to the present temper of this age then what is already written by them , ●thou hadst not been troubled with this preface , much less with the whole book . but as the tempers and genius 's of ages and times alier , so do the arms and w●npons which ●●theists imploy against religion ; the most papular pretences of the atheists of our age , have been the irreconcileableness of the account of times in scripture , with that of the learned and ancient heathen nations ; the inconsistency of the belief of the scriptures with the principles of reason ; and the account which may be given of the origine of things from principles of philosophy without the scriptures ; these three therefore i have particularly set my self against , and directed against each of them a several book . in the first i have manifested that there is no ground of credibility in the account of ancient times given by any heathen nations different from the scriptures , which i have with so much care and diligence enquired into , that from thence we may hope to hear no more of men before adam to salve the authority of the scriptures by , which yet was intended only as a design to undermine them ; but i have not thought the frivolous pretences of the author of that hypothesis worth particular mentioning , supposing it sufficient to give a clear account of things without particular citation of authors , where it was not of great concernment for understanding the thing its self . in the second book i have undertaken to give a rational account of the grounds , why we are to believe those several persons , who in several ages were imployed to reveal the mind of god to the world , and with greater particularity then hath yet been used , i have insisted on the persons of moses , and the prophets , our saviour and his apostles , and in every of them manifested the rational evidences on which they were to be believed , not only by the men of their own age , but by those of succeeding generations . in the third book i have insisted on the matters themselves which are either supposed by or revealed in the scriptures ; and have therein not only manifested the certainty of the foundations of all religion which lye in the being of god and immortality of the soul , but the undoubted truth of those particular accounts concerning the origine of the universe , of evil , and of nations , which were most lyable to the atheists exceptions , and have therein considered all the pretences of philosophy ancient or modern , which have seemed to contradict any of them ; to which ( mant ssae loco ) i have added the evidence of scripture history in the remainders of it in heathen mythology , and concluded all with a discourse of the excellency of the scriptures . thus having given a brief view of the design and method of the whole , i submit it to every free and unprejudiced judgement . all the favour then i shall request of thee , is , to read seriously , and judge impartially ; and then i doubt not but thou wilt see as much reason for religion as i do . the contents . book i. chap. i. the obscurity and defect of ancient history . the knowledge of truth proved to be the most natural perfection of the rational soul ; yet error often mistaken for truth , the accounts of it . want of diligence in its search , the mixture of truth and f●lshood : thence comes either rejecting truth for the errors sake , or embracing the error for the truths sake ; the first instanced in heathen philosophers , the second in vulgar heathen . of philosophical atheism , and the grounds of it . the history of antiquity very obscure . the question stated where the true history of ancient times to be found , in heathen histories , or only in scripture ? the want of credibility in heathen histories asserted and proved by the general defect for want of timely records among heathen nations ; the reason of it shewed from the first plantations of the world. the manner of them discovered . the original of civil government . of hicroglyphicks . the use of letters among the greeks no elder then cadmus , his time enquired into , no elder then joshua , the learning brought into greece by him . page chap. ii. of the phoenician and aegyptian history . the particular defect in the history of the most learned heathen nations . first the phoenicians . of sanchoniathon , his antiquity , and fidelity . of jerom-baal , baal-berith . the antiquity of tyre . scaliger vindicated against b●chartus abibalus . the vanity of phoenician theology . the imitation of it by the gnosticks . of the aegyptian history . the antiquity and authority of hermes trismegistus . of his inscriptions on pillars , transcribed by manetho . his fabulousness thence discovered . terra seriadica . of seths pillars in josephus , and an account whence they are taken . pag. chap. iii. of the chaldean history . the contest of antiquity among heathen nations , and the ways of deciding it . of the chaldean astrology , and the foundation of iudicial astrology . of the zabi● , their founder , who they were , no other then the old chaldees . of berosus and his history . an account of the fabulous dynastyes of berosus and manetho . from the translation of the scripture history into greek in the time of prolomy . of that translation and the time of it . of demetrius phalereus . scaligers arguments answered . manetho writ after the septuagint , proved against kircher ; his arguments answered . of rabbinical and arabick authors , and their little credit in matter of history . the time of berosus enquired into , his writing co-temporary with philadelphus . pag. chap. iv. the defect of the graecian history . that manifested by three evident arguments of it . . the fabulousness of the poetical age of greece . the antiquity of poetry . of orpheus and the ancient poets . whence the poetical fables borrowed . the advancement of poetry and idolatry together in greece . the different censures of strabo and eratosthenes concerning the poetical age of greece , and the reasons of them . . the eldest historians of greece are of suspected credit . of damastes , aristeus , and others ; of most of their eldest historians we have nothing left but their names , of others only the subjects they treated of , and some fragments . . those that are extant , either confess their ignorance of eldest times , or plainly discover it . of the first sort are thucydides and plutarch ; several evidences of the graecians ignorance of the true original of nations . of herodotus and his mistakes , the greeks ignorance in geography discovered , and thence their insufficiency as to an account of ancient history . page chap. v. the general uncertainty of heathen chronology . the want of credibility in heathen history further proved from the uncertainty and confusion in their accounts of ancient times ; that discovered by the uncertain form of their years . an enquiry into the different forms of the aegyptian years ; the first of thirty dayes , the second of four months ; of both instances given in the aegyptian history . of the chaldaean accounts , and the first dynastyes mentioned by berosus , how they may be reduced to probability . of the aegyptian dynastyes . of manetho . reasons of accounting them fabulous , because not attested by any credible authority , and rejected by the best historians . the opinion of scaliger and vossius , concerning their being cotemporary , propounded and rejected with reasons against it . of the ancient division of aegypt into nomi or provinces , and the number of them against vossius and kircher . page chap. vi. the uncertain epocha's of heathen chronology . an account given of the defect of chronology in the ●ldest times . of the solar year among the aegyptians , the original of the epacts , the antiquity of intercalation among them . of the several canicular years ; the difference between scaliger and petavius considered . the certain epocha's of the aegyptian history no elder then nabonasser . of the graecian accounts . the fabulousness of the heroical age of greece . of the ancient graecian kingdoms . the beginning of the olympiads . the uncertain origines of the western nations . of the latine dynastyes . the different palilia of rome . the uncertain reckoning ab. v. c. of impostures as to ancient histories . of annius , inghiramius , and others . of the characters used by heathen priests . no sacred characters among the fews . the partiality and inconsistency of heathen bistories with each other . from all which the want of credibility in them as to an account of ancient times is clearly demonstrated . page book ii. chap. i. the certainty of the writings of moses . in order to the proving the truth of scripture-history , several hypotheses laid down . the first concerns the reasonableness of preserving the ancient history of the world in some certain records , from the importance of the things , and the inconveniencies of meer tradition or constant revelation● the second concerns the certainty that the records under moses his name , were undoubtedly his . the certainty of a matter of fact enquired into in general , and proved as to this particular by universal consent , and settling a common-wealth upon his laws . the impossibility of an imposture as to the writings of moses demonstrated . the plea's to the contrary largely answered . page chap. ii. moses his certain knowledge of what he writ . the third hypothesis concerns the certainty of the matter of moses his history ; that gradually proved : first , moses his knowledge cleared , by his education , and experience , and certain information . his education in the wisdom of aegypt ; what that was . the old aegyptian learning enquired into , the conveniences for it of the aegyptian priests . moses reckoned among them for his knowledge . the mathematical , natural , divine , and moral learning of aegypt : their political wisdom most considerable . the advantage of moses above the greek philosophers , as to wisdom and reason . moses himself an eye witness of most of his history : the certain uninterrupted tradition of the other part among the fews , manifested by rational evidence . p. chap. iii. moses his fidelity and integrity proved . moses considered as an historian , and as a lawgiver ; his fidelity in both proved : clear evidences that he had no intent to deceive in his history , freedom from private interest , impartiality in his relations , plainness and ●erspicuity of stile . as a lawgiver , be came armed with divine authority , which being the main thing , is fixed on to be fully proved from his actions and writings . the power of miracles the great evidence of divine revelation . two grand questions propounded . in what cases miracles may be expected , and how known to be true . no necessity of a constant power of miracles in a church : two cases alone wherein they may be expected . when any thing comes as a law from god , and when a divine law is to be repealed . the necessity of miracles in those cases as an evidence of divine revelation asserted . objections answered . no use of miracles when the doctrine is setled and owned by miracles in the first revelation . no need of miracles in reformation of a church . pag. chap. iv. the fidelity of the prophets succeeding moses . in order of prophets to succeed moses , by gods own appointment in the law of moses . the schools of the prophets , the original and institution of them . the cities of the levites . the occasion of their first institution . the places of the schools of the prophets , and the tendency of the institution there to a prophetical office . of the musick used in the schools of the prophets . the roman assam●nta , and the greek hymns in their solemn worship . the two sorts of prophets among the jews , lieger and extraordinary . ordinary prophets taken out of the schools , proved by amos and saul . pag. chap. v. the tryal of prophetical doctrine . rules of trying prophets established in the law of moses . the punishment of pretenders . the several sorts of false prophets . the case of the prophet at bethel discussed . the tryal of false prophets belonging to the great sanhedrin . the particular rules whereby the doctrine of prophets was judged . the proper notion of a prophet , not foretelling future contingencies , but having immediate divine revelation . several principles laid down for clearing the doctrine of the prophets . . that immediate dictates of natural light are not to be the measure of divine revelation . several grounds for divine revelation from natural light . . what ever is directly repugnant to the dictates of nature , cannot be of divine revelation . . no divine revelation doth contradict a divine positive law without sufficient evidence of gods intention to repeal that law. . divine revelation in the prophets was not to be measured by the words of the law , but by the intention and reason of it . the prophetical office a kind of chancery to the law of moses . pag. chap. vi. the tryal of prophetical predictions and miracles . the great difficulty of the trying the truth of prophetical predictions from jerem. . , , &c. some general hypothe●es premised for the clearing of it . the first concerns the grounds why predictions are accounted an evidence of divine revelation . three consectaries drawn thence . the second , the manner of gods revelation of his will to the minds of the prophets . of the several degrees of prophecy . the third is , that god did not alwayes reveal the internal purposes of his will unto the true prophets . the grand question propounded how it may be known when predictions express gods decrees , and when only the series of causes . for the first , several rules laid down . . when the prediction is confirmed by a present miracle . . when the things foretold exceed the probability of second causes . . when confirmed by gods oath . . when the bl●ssings fore-told are purely spiritual . three rules for interpreting the proph●cyes which respect the state of things under the g●spel . . when all circumstances are foretold . . when many prophets in several ages agree in the same predictions . predictions do not express gods unalterable purposes , when they only contain comminations of judgments , or are predictions of temporal bl●ssings . the case of the ninivites . hezekiah and others opened . of repentance in god , what it implyes . the jewish obj●ctions ●bout predictions of temporal bl●ssings answered . in what cases miracles were expected from the prophets , when they were to confirm the truth of their religion . instanced in the prophet at bethel , elijah , elishah , and of moses himself ; whose divine authority that it was proved by miracles , is demonstrated against the modern iews , and their pretences answered . p. chap. vii . the eternity of the law of moses discussed . the second case wherein miracles may be expected , when a divine positive law is to be repealed , and another way of worship established in stead of it . the possibility in general of a repeal of a divine law asserted ; the particular case of the law of moses disputed against the iews : the matter of that law proved not to be immutably obligatory ; because the ceremonial precepts were required not for themselves , but for some further end ; that proved from maimonides his confession : the precepts of the ceremonial law frequently dispensed with while the law was in force . of the passover of hezekiah , and several other instances . it is not inconsistent with the wisdom of god to repeal such an established law. abravanels arguments answered . of the perfection of the law of moses , compared with the gospel . whether god hath ever declared he would never repeal the law of moses . of adding to the precepts . of the expressions seeming to imply the perpetuity of the law of moses . reasons assigned why those expressions are used , though perpetuity be not implyed . the law of moses not built upon immutable reason , because many particular precepts were founded upon particular occasions , as the customs of the zabii ; many ceremonial precepts thence deduced out of maimonides ; and because such a state of things was foretold , with which the observation of the ceremonial law would be inconsistent . that largely discovered from the prophecies of the old testament . chap. viii . general hypotheses concerning the truth of the doctrine of christ. the great prejudice against our saviour among iews and heathens , was the meaness of his appearance . the difference of the miracles at the delivery of the law and gospel . some general hypotheses to clear the subserviency of miracles to the doctrine of christ. . that where the truth of a doctrine depends not on evidence , but authority , the only way to prove the truth of the doctrine , is to prove the testimony of the revealer to be infallible . things may be true which depend not on evidence of the things . what that is , and on what it depends . the uncertainty of natural knowledge . the existence of god , the foundation of all certainty . the certainty of matters of faith proved from the same principle . our knowledge of any thing supposeth something incomprehensible . the certainty of faith as great as that of knowledge ; the grounds of it stronger . the consistency of rational evidence with faith . yet objects of faith exceed reason ; the absurdities following the contrary opinion . the uncertainty of that which is called reason . philosophical dictates no standard of reason . of transubstantiation and ubiquity &c. why rejected as contrary to reason . the foundation of faith in matters above reason . which is infallible testimony ; that there are wayes to know which is infallible , proved : . hypoth . a divine testimony the most infallible . the resolution of faith into gods veracity as its formal object . . hypoth . a divine testimony may be known , though god speak not immediatly . of inspiration among the iews , and divination among the heathens . . hyp. the evidences of a divine testimony must be clear and certain . of the common motives of faith , and the obligation to faith arising from them . the original of infidelity . chap. ix . the rational evidence of the truth of christian religion from miracles . the possibility of miracles appears from god and providence ; the evidence of a divine testimony by them . god alone can really alter the course of nature . the devils power of working miracles considered . of simon magus , apollonius . the cures in the temple of aeseulapius at rome , &c. god never works miracles , but for some particular end . the particular reasons of the miracles of christ. the repealing the law of moses , which had been setled by miracles . why christ checked the pharisees for demanding a sign , when himself appeals to his miracles . the power of christs miracles on many who did not throughly believ● . christs miracles made it evident that he was the messias , because the predictions were fulfilled in him . why john baptist wrought no miracles . christs miracles necessary for the everthrow of the devils kingdom . of the daemoniaeks and lunaticks in the gospel , and in the primitive church . the power of the name of christ over them largely proved by several testimonies . the evidence thence of a divine power in christ. of counterfeit dispossessions . of miracles wrought among infidels . of the future state of the church . the necessity of the miracles of christ , as to the propagation of christian religion : that proved from the condition of the publishers , and the success of the doctrine . the apostles knew the hazard of their imployment , before they entred on it . the boldness and resolution of the apostles notwithstanding this , compared with heathen philosophers . no motive could carry the apostles through their imployment , but the truth of their doctrine ▪ not seeking the honour , profit or pleasure of the world . the apostles evidence of the truth of their doctrine lay in being eye-witnesses of our saviours miracles and resurr●ction . that attested by themselves ; their sufficiency thence for preaching the gospel . of the nature of the doctrine of the gospel ; contrariety of it to natural inclinations . strange success of it , notwithstanding it came not with humane power : no christian emperour , till the gospel universally preached . the weakness and simplicity of the instruments which preached the gospel . from all which the great evidence of the power of miracles is proved . pag. chap. x. the difference of true miracles from false . the unreasonableness of rejecting the evidence from miracles ▪ because of impostures . that there are certain rules of distinguishing true miracles from false , and divine from diabolical , proved from gods intention in giving a power of miracles , and the providence of god in the world . the inconvenience of taking away the rational grounds of faith and placing it on self-evidence . of the self-evidence of the scriptures , and the insufficiency of that for resolving the question about the authority of the scriptures . of the pretended miracles of impostors and false christs , as barchochebas david el - david and others . the rules whereby to judge true miracles from false . . true divine miracles are wrought to confirm a divine testimony . no miracles nec●ssary for the certain conveyance of a divine testimony : proved from the evidences that the scriptures could not be corrupted . . no miracles divine which contradict divine revelation . of popish miracles . . divine miracles leave divine effects on those who believe them . of the miracles of simon magus . . divine miracles tend to the overthrow of the devils power in the world : the antipathy of the doctrine of christ to the devils designs in the world . . the distinction of true miracles from others , from the circumstances and manner of their operation . the miracles of christ compared with those of the h●athen gods. . god makes it evident to all impartial judgments that divine miracles exceed created power . this manifested from the unparalleld miracles of moses and our saviour . from all which the rational evidence of divine revelation is manifested , as to the persons whom god imployes to teach the world . pag. book iii. chap. i. of the being of god. the principles of all religion lie in the being of god and immortality of the soul : from them the necessity of a particular divine revelation rationally deduced ; the method laid down for proving the divine authority of the scriptures . why moses doth not prove the being of god , but suppose it . the notion of a deity very consonant to reason . of the nature of idea's , and particularly of the idea of god. how we can form an idea of an infinite being . how far such an idea argues existence . the great unreasonableness of atheism demonstrated . of the hypotheses of the aristotelian and epicurean atheists . the atheists pretences examined and refuted . of the nature of the arguments whereby we prove there is a god. of universal consent and the evidence of that to prove a deity and immortality of souls . of necessity of existence implyed in the notion of god , and how far that proves the being of god. the order of the world and usefulness of the parts of it , and especially of mans body , an argument of a deity . some higher principle proved to be in the world then matter and motion . the nature of the soul , and possibility of its subsisting after death . strange appearances in nature not solvable by the power of imagination . pag. chap. ii. of the origine of the universe . the necessity of the belief of the creation of the world in order to the truth of religion . of the several hypotheses of the philosophers who contradict moses : with a particular examination of them . the ancïent tradition of the world consonant to moses : proved from the fonick philosophy of thales , and the italick of pythagoras . the pythagorick cabbala rather aegyptian then mosaick . of the fluid matter which was the material principle of the universe . of the hypothesis of the eternity of the world asserted by ocellus lucanus , and aristotle . the weakness of the foundations on which that opinion is built . of the manner of forming principles of philosophy . the possibility of creation proved . no arguing from the present state of the world against its beginning shewed from maimonides . the platonists arguments from the goodness of god for the eternity of the world answered . of the stoical hypothesis of the eternity of matter ; whether reconcilable with the text of moses . of the opinions of plato and pythagoras concerning the praeexistence of matter to the formation of the world . the contradiction of the eternity of matter to the nature and attributes of god , of the atomical hypothesis of the origine of the universe . the world could not be produced by a casual concourse of atoms proved from the nature and motion of epicurus his atoms , and the phaenomena of the universe , especially the production and nature of animals . of the cartesian hypothesis , that it cannot salve the origine of the universe without a deity giving motion to matter . pag. chap. iii. of the origine of evil. of the being of providence . epicurus his arguments against it refuted . the necessity of the belief of providence in order to religion . providence proved from a consideration of the nature of god and the things of the world . of the spirit of nature . the great objections against providence propounded . the first concerns the origine of evil . god cannot be the author of sin if the scriptures be true . the account which the scriptures give of the fall of man , doth not charge god with mans fault . gods power to govern man by laws , though he gives no particular reason of every positive precept . the reason of gods creating man with freedom of will , largely shewed from simplicius ; and the true account of the origine of evil . gods permitting the fall makes him not the author of it . the account which the scriptures give of the origine of evil , compared with that of heathen philosophers . the antiquity of the opinion of ascribing the origine of evil to an evil principle . of the judgment of the persians , aegyptians and others about it . of manichaism . the opinion of the ancient greek philosophers ; of pythagoras , plato , the stoicks ; the origine of evil not from the necessity of matter . the remainders of the history of the fall among the heathens . of the malignity of daemons . providence vindicated as to the sufferings of the good , and impunity of bad men . an account of both from natural light , manifested by seneca , plutarch ; and others . pag. chap. iv. of the origine of nations . all mankind derived from adam , if the scriptures be true . the contrary supposition an introduction to atheism . the truth of the history of the flood . the possibility of an universal deluge proved . the flood universal as to mankind , whether universal as to the earth and animals ; no necessity of asserting either . yet supposing the possibility of it demonstrated without creation of new waters . of the fountains of the deep . the proportion which the height of mountains bears to the diameter of the earth . no mountains much above three mile perpendicular . of the origine of fountains . the opinion of aristotle and others concerning it discussed . the true account of them from the vapours arising from the mass of subterraneous waters . of the capacity of the ark for receiving the animals from buteo and others . the truth of the deluge from the testimony of heathen nations . of the propagation of nations from noahs posterity . of the beginning of the assyrian empire . the multiplication of mankind after the flood . of the chronology of the lxx . of the time between the flood and abraham , and the advantages of it . of the pretence of such nations , who called themselves aborigines . a discourse concerning the first plantation of greece , the common opinion propounded and rejected . the hellens not the first inhabitants of greece , but the pelasgi . the large spread of them over the parts of greece ; of their language different from the greeks . whence these pelasgi came ; that phaleg was the pelasgus of greece , and the leader of that colony proved from epiphanius : the language of the pelasgi in greece oriental : thence an account given of the many hebrew words in the greek language , and the remainders of the eastern languages in the islands of greece , both which not from the phaenicians as bochartus thinks , but from the old pelasgi . of the ground of the affinity between the jews and lacedaemonians . of the peopling of america . pag. chap. v. of the origine of the heathen mythology . that there were some remainders of the ancient history of the world preserved in the several nations after the dispersion . how it came to be corrupted : by decay of knowledge , increase of idolatry , confusion of languages . an enquiry into the cause of that . difficulties against the common opinion that languages were confounded at babel . those difficulties cleared . of the fabulousness of poets . the particular ways whereby the heathen mythology arose . attributing the general history of the world to their own nation . the corruption of hebraisms . alteration of names . ambiguity of sense in the oriental languages . attributing the actions of many to one person , as in jupiter , bacchus , &c. the remainders of scripture history among the heathens . the names of god , chaos , formation of man among the phaenicians . of adam among the germans , aegyptians , cilicians . adam under saturn . cain among the phaenicians . tubalcain and jubal under vulcan and apollo . naamah under minerva . noah under saturn , janus , prometheus and bacchus . noahs three sons under jupiter , neptune , and pluto . canaan under mercury , nimrod under bacchus , magog under prometheus . of abraham and isaac among the phaenicians . jacobs service under apollo's . the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from bethel . joseph under apis. moses under bacchus . joshua under hercules . balaam under the old silenus . pag. chap. vi. of the excellency of the scriptures . concerning matters of pure divine revelation in scripture : the terms of salvation only contained therein . the ground of the disesteem of the scriptures is tacite unbelief . the excellency of the scriptures manifested as to the matters which god hath revealed therein . the excellency of the discoveries of gods nature which are in scripture . of the goodness and love of god in christ. the suitableness of those discoveryes of god to our natural notions of a deity . the necessity of gods making known himself to us in order to the regulating our conceptions of him . the scriptures give the fullest account of the state of mens souls , and the corruptions which are in them . the only way of pleasing god discovered in scriptures . the scriptures contain matters of greatest mysteriousness , and most universal satisfaction to mens minds . the excellency of the manner wherein things are revealed in scriptures , in regard of clearness , authority , purity , uniformity , and perswasiveness . the excellency of the scriptures as a rule of life . the nature of the duties of religion and the reasonableness of them . the greatness of the encouragements to religion contained in the scriptures . the great excellency of the scriptures , as containing in them the covenant of grace in order to mans salvation . pag. errata . page . l. . r. existence . p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . l. . r. anebo . p. . l. . r. sebennyta . p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. . l. . r. accederent . and causaubon . p. . l. . r. others . p. . l. . r. pisistratidae . p. . l. . r. hierocles — apollonius . p. . l. . r. acusilaus . p . l. , . r. the patriarch tarasius . p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. l. . for but r. by . p. . l. . for to r. and. p. . l. . r. hecataeus . p. . l. . r. panchotis . p. . l. . r. as to . p. . l. r. he for we . p. . l. . r. provided . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . l. . r. peteseph . p. . r. deceived . p. . l. r. continued . p. . l. . r. deut. . p. . l. . r. an order . p. . l . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. l. . r. are . p . l. ● . r. ordinat 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. . l. . before those insert though . p. . l . r. imploy l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. . l . r. vorstius . p. . l. . r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. . l . r. meanness . p. . l. . r. table . p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . l. . for it . r. they . p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. l. . r. barchochebas . p. . between us and in insert a. p . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . l. . r. incredibilia . p. . l. . blot out the comma between euhemerus and messenius . l and elsewhere r. salve for solve . p. . l. . r. elastical . p. . l. . r. toupinamboults . p. . l. . r. peristaltic . p. . l. . for it r. them p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . l. r. insert ( ●● ) between 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . l. . r fluidane p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . l. . for col r. ( l. nomine appellasse . ) p. . l. . r. whose surface is supposed to be . p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . l. . r. coaeterna . p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . origines sacrae : the truth of scripture-history asserted . book i. chap. i. the obscurity and defect of ancient history . the knowledge of truth proved to be the most natural perfection of the rational soul ; yet error often mistaken for truth , the accounts of it . want of diligence in its search , the mixture of truth and falshood : thence comes either rejecting truth for the errors sake , or embracing the error for the truths sake ; the first instanced in heathen philosophers , the second in vulgar heathen . of philosophical atheism , and the grounds of it . the history of antiquity very obscure . the question stated where the true history of ancient times to be found , in heathen histories , or only in scripture ? the want of credibility in heathen histories asserted and proved by the general defect for want of timely records among heathen nations ; the reason of it shewed from the first plantations of the world. the manner of them discovered . the original of civil government . of hieroglyphicks . the use of letters among the greeks no elder then cadmus , his time enquired into , no elder then joshua , the learning brought into greece by him . enquiries after truth have that peculiar commendation above all other designs , that they come on purpose to gratifie the most noble faculty of our souls , and do most immediately tend to re-advance the highest perfection of our rational beings . for all our most laudable endeavours after knowledge now , are only the gathering up some scattered fragments of what was once an entire fabrick , and the recovery of some precious iewels which were lost out of sight , and sunk in the shipwrack of humane nature . that saying of plato , that all knowledge is remembrance , and all ignorance forgetfulness , is a certain and undoubted truth , if by forgetfulness be meant the loss , and by remembrance the recovery of those notions and conceptions of things which the mind of man once had in its pure and primitive state , wherein the understanding was the truest microcosm , in which all the beings of the inferiour world were faithfully represented according to their true , native , and genuine perfections . god created the soul of man not only capable of finding out the truth of things , but furnished him with a sufficient 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or touchstone to discover truth from falshood , by a light set up in his understanding , which if he had attended to , he might have secured himself from all impostures and deceits . as all other beings were created in the full possession of the agreeable perfections of their several natures , so was man too , else god would have never closed the work of creation with those words , and god saw all that he had made , and behold it was very good ; that is , endued with all those perfections which were suitable to their several beings . which man had been most defective in , if his understanding had not been endowed with a large stock of intellectual knowledge , which is the most natural and genuine perfection belonging to his rational being . for reason being the most raised faculty of humane nature , if that had been defective in its discoveries of truth , which is its proper object , it would have argued the greatest maim and imperfection in the being it self . for if it belongs to the perfection of the sensitive faculties to discern what is pleasant from what is hurtful , it must needs be the perfection of the rational to find out the difference of truth from falshood . not as though the soul could then have had any more then now , an actual notion of all the beings in the world ocexisting at the same time , but that it would have been free from all deceits in its conceptions of things , which were not caused through inadvertency . which will appear from the several aspects mans knowledge ledge hath , which are either upwards towards his maker , or abroad on his fellow-creatures . if we consider that contemplation of the soul which fixes its self on that infinite being which was the cause of it , and is properly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; it will be found necessary for the soul to be created in a clear and distinct knowledge of him , because of mans immediate obligation to obedience unto him . which must necessarily suppose the knowledge of him whose will must be his rule ; for if man were not fully convinced in the first moment after his creation of the being of him , whom he was to obey , his first work and duty would not have been actual obedience , but a search whether there was any supreme , infinite , and eternal being or no ; and whereon his duty to him was founded , and what might be sufficient declaration of his will and laws , according to which he must regulate his obedience . the taking off all which doubts and scruples from the soul of man , must suppose him fully satisfied upon the first free use of reason , that there was an infinite power and being which produced him , and on that account had a right to command him in whatsoever he pleased , and that those commands of his were declared to him in so certain a way that he could not be deceived in the judging of them . the clear knowledge of god will further appear most necessary to man in his first creation , if we consider that god created him for this end and purpose , to enjoy converse , and an humble familiarity with himself , he had then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the language of clemens alexandrinus , converse with god was as natural to him as his being was . for man , as he came first out of gods hands , was the reflection of god himself on a dark cloud , the iris of the deity , the similitude was the same , but the substance different : thence he is said to be created after the image of god. his knowledge then had been more intellectual then discursive ; not so much imploying his faculties in the operose deductions of reason ( the pleasant toyl of the rational faculties since the fall ) but had immediately imployed them about the sublimest objects , not about quiddities and formalities , but about him who was the fountain of his being , and the center of his happiness . there was not then so vast a difference between the angelical and humane life : the angels and men both fed on the same dainties , all the difference was , they were in the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the upper room in heaven , and man in the summer parlour in paradise . if we take a view of mans knowledge as it respects his fellow-creatures , we shall find these were so fully known to him on his first creation , that he needed not to go to school to the wide world to gather up his conceptions of them . for the right exercise of that dominion which he was instated in over the inferiour world , doth imply a particular knowledge of the nature , being , and properties of those things which he was to make use of , without which he could not have improved them for their peculiar ends . and from this knowledge did proceed the giving the creatures those proper and peculiar names which were expressive of their several natures . for as plato tells us , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : the imposition of names on things belongs not to every one , but only to him that hath a full prospect into their several natures . for it is most agreeable to reason , that names should carry in them a suitableness to the things they express ; for words being for no other end but to express our conceptions of things , and our conceptions being but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as the same philosopher speaks , the resemblances and representations of the things , it must needs follow , that where there was a true knowledge , the conceptions must agree with the things ; and words being to express our conceptions , none are so fit to do it , as those which are expressive of the several natures of the things they are used to represent . for otherwise all the use of words is to be a meer vocabulary to the understanding , and an index to memory , and of no further use in the pursuit of knowledge , then to let us know what words men are agreed to call things by . but something further seems to be intended in their first imposition , whence the iews call it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as mercer tells us , a separation and distinction of the several kinds of things : and kircher thus paraphraseth the words of moses . and whatsoever adam called every living creature , that was the name thereof . i. e. saith he , fuerunt illis vera & germane nomina & rerum naturis propriè accommodata . but however this be , we have this further evidence of that height of knowledge which must be supposed in the first man , that as he was the first in his kind , so he was to be the standard and measure of all that followed , and therefore could not want any thing of the due perfections of humane nature . and as the shekel of the sanctuary was , if not double to others , ( as men ordinarily mistake ) yet of a full and exact weight , because it was to be the standard for all other weights ( which was the cause of its being kept in the temple . ) so if the first man had not double the proportion and measure of knowledge which his posterity hath , if it was not running over in regard of abundance , yet it must be pressed down and shaken together in regard of weight , else he would be a very unfit standard for us to judge by , concerning the due and suitable perfections of humane nature . but we need not have run so far back as the first man to evince the knowledge of truth to be the most natural perfection of the soul of man ; for even among the present ruines of humane nature we may find some such noble and generous spirits , that discern so much beauty in the face of truth , that to such as should enquire what they find so attractive in it , their answer would be the same with aristotles in a like case , it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the question of those who never saw it . for so pleasing is the enquiry , and so satisfactory the finding of truth after the search , that the relish of it doth far exceed the greatest epicurism of apicius , or the most costly entertainments of cleopatra ; there being no gust so exquisite as that of the mind , nor any iewels to be compared with truth . nor do any persons certainly better deserve the name of men , then such who allow their reason a full employment , and think not the erectness of mans stature a sufficient distinction of him from brutes . of which those may be accounted only a higher species who can patiently suffer the imprisonment of their intellectuals in a dungeon of ignorance , and know themselves to be men , only by those characters by which alexander knew himself not to be a god , by their proneness to intemperance and sleep . so strange a metempsychosis may there be without any change of bodies , and euphorbus his soul might become a brute , without ever removing its lodging into the body of an ass. so much will the soul degenerate from its self , if not improved , and in a kind of sullenness scarce appear to be what it is , because it is not improved to what it may be . but if this knowledge of truth be so great , so natural , so valuable a perfection of humane nature , whence comes so much of the world to be over-run with ignorance and barbarism , whence come so many pretenders to knowledge , to court a cloud instead of juno , to pretend a love to truth , and yet to fall down and worship errour ? if there were so great a sympathy between the soul and truth , there would be an impatient desire after it , and a most ready embracing and closing with it . we see the magnet doth not draw the iron with greater force then it seems to run with impatience into its closest embraces . if there had been formerly so intimate an acquaintance between the soul and truth , as socrates fancied of friends in the other world , there would be an harmonious closure upon the first appearance , and no divorce to be after made between them ? true , but then we must consider there is an intermediate state between the former acquaintance , and the renewal of it , wherein all those remaining characters of mutual knowledge are sunk so deep , and lie so hid , that there needs a new fire to be kindled to bring forth those latent figures , and make them again appear legible . and when once those tokens are produced of the former friendship , there are not more impatient longings ▪ nor more close embraces between the touched needle and the magnet , then there are between the understanding and discovered truth . but then withall , we are to consider that they are but few whose souls are awakened out of that lethargy they are fallen into in this degenerate condition , the most are so pleased with their sleep , that they are loth to disturb their rest , and set a higher price upon a lazy ignorance , then upon a restless knowledge . and even of those whose souls are as it were between sleeping and waking , what by reason of the remaining confusion of the species in their brains , what by the present dimness of their sight , and the hovering uncertain light they are to judge by , there are few that can put a difference between a meer phantasm and a real truth . of which these rational accounts may be given , viz. why so few pretenders to knowledge do light on truth . first , want of an impartial diligence in the search of it . truth now must be sought , and that with care and dilgence , before we find it ; jewels do not use to lye upon the surface of the earth : highways are seldom paved with gold ; what is most worth our finding , calls for the greatest search . if one that walks the streets should finde some inestimable jewel , or one that travels the road meet with a bag of gold , it would be but a silly design of any to walk the street , or travel the road in hopes to meet with such a purchase to make them rich . if some have happily light on some valuable truths when they minded nothing less then them , must this render a diligence useless in inquiries after such ? no : truth though she be so fair and pleasing as to draw our affections , is yet so modest as to admit of being courted , and it may be deny the first suit , to heighten our importunity . and certainly nothing hath oftner forbid the banes between the understanding and truth inquired after , then partiality and preoccupation of iudgement : which makes men enquire more diligently after the dowry then the beauty of truth , its correspondency to their interests , then its evidence to their understandings . an useful error , hath often kept the keys of the mind for free admission , when important truths but contrary to their pre-conceptions or interests have been forbidden entrance . prejudice is the wrong bias of the soul , that effectually keeps it from coming near the mark of truth , nay , sets it at the greatest distance from it . there are few in the world that look after truth with their own eyes , most make use of spectacles of others making , which makes them so seldom behold the proper lineaments in the face of truth ; which the several tinctures from education , authority , custom , and predisposition do exceedingly hinder men from discerning of . another reason why there are so few who find truth , when so many pretend to seek it , is , that near resemblance , which error often bears to truth . it hath been well observed that error seldom walks abroad the world in her own raiments , she always borrows something of truth , to make her more acceptable to the world . it hath been always the subtilty of grand deceivers to graft their greatest errors on some material truths , to make them pass more undiscernable to all such who look more at the root on which they stand , then on the fruits which they bring forth . it will hereafter appear how most of the grossest of the heathen errors have , as plutarch saith of the egyptian fables , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , some faint and obscure resemblances of truth ; nay more then so , as most pernicious weeds are bred in the fattest soyls ; their most destructive principles have been founded on some necessary and important truths . thus idolatry doth suppose the belief of the existence of a deity ; and superstition the immortality of the souls of men . the devil could never have built his chappels , but on the same ground whereon gods temples stood ; which makes me far less wonder then many do , at the meeting with many expressions concerning these two grand truths in the writings of ancient heathens , knowing how willing the devil might be to have such principles still owned in the world , which by his depraving of them might be the nourishers of idolatry and superstition . for the general knowledge of a divine nature , supposing men ignorant of the true god , did only lay a foundation to erect his idolatrous temples upon ; and the belief of the souls surviving the body after death , without knowledge of the true way of attaining happiness , did make men more eager of imbracing those rites and ceremonies , which canie with a pretence of shewing the way to a blessed immortality . which may be a most probable reason why philosophy and idolatry did increase so much together as they did ; for though right reason fully improved would have overthrown all those cursed and idolatrous practises among the heathens , yet reason only discerning some general notions without their particular application and improvement , did only dispose the most ordinary sort of people to a more ready entertainment of the most gross idolatry . for hereby they discerned the necessity of some kind of worship , but could not find out the right way of it , and therefore they greedily followed that which was commended to them , by such who did withall agree with them in the common sentiments of humane nature : nay , and those persons themselves who were the great maintainers of these sublimer notions concerning god and the soul of man , were either the great instruments of advancing that horrid superstition among them , as orpheus & apollonius , or very forward complyers with it , as many of the philosophers were . although withall it cannot be denied to have been a wonderful discovery of divine providence , by these general notions to keep waking the inward senses of mens souls , that thereby it might appear when divine revelation should be manifested to them , that it brought nothing contrary to the common principles of humane nature , but did only rectifie the depravations of it , and clearly shew men that way , which they had long been ignorantly seeking after . which was the excellent advantage the apostle made of the inscription on the altar at athens to the unknown god ; whom , saith he , ye ignorantly serve , him i declare unto you . and which was the happy use the primitive learned christians made of all those passages concerning the divine nature and the immortality of the souls of men , which they found in the heathen writers , thereby to evidence to the world that the main postulata or suppositions of christian religion were granted by their own most admired men : and that christianity did not race out but only build upon those common foundations , which were entertained by all who had any name for reason . though this , i say , were the happy effect of this building errors on common truths to all that had the advantage of divine revelation to discern the one from the other ; yet as to others who were destitute of it , they were lyable to this twofold great inconvenience by it . first , for the sake of the apparent rottenness of the superstructures to question the soundness of the foundations on which they stood . and this i doubt not was the case of many considerative heathens , who observing that monstrous and unreasonable way of worship obtaining among the heathen , and not being able by the strength of their own reason , through the want of divine revelation to deduce any certain instituted worship , they were shrewdly tempted to renounce those principles , when they could not but abhor the conclusions drawn from them ; for there is nothing more usual then for men who exceedingly detest some absurd consequence they see may be drawn from a principle supposed , to reject the principle its self for the sake of that consequence , which it may be doth not necessarily follow from it , but through the shortness of their own reason doth appear to them to do so . thus when the intelligent heathen did apparently see that from the principles of the being of god , and the immortality of souls , did flow all those unnatural , and inhumane sacrifices , all those absurd and ridiculous rites , all those execrable and profane mysteries , out of a loathing the immoralities and impieties which attended these , they were brought to question the very truth , and certainty of those principles which were capable of being thus abused . and therefore i am very prone to suspect the apology usually made for protagoras , diagoras , and such others of them who were accounted atheists , to be more favourable then true , viz. that they only rejected those heathen deities , and not the belief of the divine nature . i should think this account of their reputed atheism rational , were it any wayes evident that they did build their belief of a divine nature , upon any other grounds then such as were common to them with those whose worship they so much derided . and therefore when the heathens accused the christians of atheism , i have full and clear evidence that no more could be meant thereby then the rejection of their way of worship , because i have sufficient assurance from them that they did believe in a divine nature , and an instituted religion most suitable to the most common received notions of god , which they owned in opposition to all heathen worship . which i find not in the least pretended to by any of the forementioned persons , nor any thing of any different way of religion asserted , but only a destruction of that in use among them . and although the case of anaxagoras , clazomenius , and the rest of the ionicke philosophers might seem very different from diagoras , theodorus , and those beforementioned , because although they denied the gods in vulgar repute to be such as they were thought to be ( as anaxagor as call'd the sun 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a meer globe of fire , for which he was condemned at athens to banishment , and sined five talents , yet the learned vossius puts in this plea in his behalf , that he was one that asserted the creation of the world to flow from an eternal mind ) although therefore , i say , the case of the ionick philosophers may seem far different from the others , because of their asserting the production of the world ( which from thales milesius was conveyed by anaeximander and anaximenes to anoxagoras ) yet to one that throughly considers what they understood by their eternal mind , they may be sooner cleared from the imputation of atheism , then irreligion . which two certainly ought in this case to be distinguished ; for it is very possible for men meeting with such insuperable difficulties , about the casual concourse of atoms for the production of the world , or the eternal existences of matter , to assert some eternal mind , as the first cause of these things , which yet they may imbrace only as an hypothesis in philosophy to solve the phoenomena of nature with , but yet not to make this eternal mind the object of adoration . and so their asserting a deity , was only on the same account as the tragedians used to bring in their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when their fables were brought to such an issue , and perplexed with so many difficulties that they saw no way to clear them again , but to make some god come down upon the stage to selve the difficulties they were engaged in ; or as seneca saith of many great families when they had run up their genealogies so high that they could go no further , they then fetched their pedegree from the gods : so when these philosophers saw such incongruities in asserting an infinite and eternal series of matter , they might by this be brought to acknowledge some active principle which produced the world , though they were far enough from giving any religious worship to that eternal mind . thus even epicurus and his followers would not stick to assert the being of a god ; so they might but circumscribe him within the heavens , and let him have nothing to do with things that were done on earth . and how uncertain the most dogmatical of them all were , as to their opinions concerning the being and nature of their geds , doth fully appear from the large discourses of tully upon that subject : where is fully manifested their variety of opinions , and mutual repugnancies , their self contradictions and inconstancy in their own assertions ; which hath made me somewhat inclinable to think that the reason why many of them did to the world own a deity , was , that they might not be martyrs●or ●or atheism : which tully likewise seems to acknowledge , when speaking of the punishment of protagoras , for that speech of his , de diis neque ut sint , neque ut non sint , habeo dicere . ex quo equidem existimo tardiores ad hanc sententiam profitendam multos esse factos , quippe cum poenam ne dubitatio quidem effugere potuisset . so that for all the verbal asserting of a deity among them , we have no certain evidence of their firm belief of it , and much less of any worship and service they owed unto it . and though , it may be they could not totally excuss the notions of a deity out of their minds , partly through that natural sense which is engraven on the souls of men , partly , as being unable to solve the difficulties of nature , without a deity ; yet the observing the notorious vanities of heathen worship might make them look upon it as a meer philosophical speculation , and not any thing that had an influence upon the government of mens lives : for as in nature the observing the great mixture of falshood and truth made the academicks deny any certain 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or rule of judging truth ; and the scepticks take away all certain assent ; so the same consequence was nnavoidable here , upon the same principle ; and that made even plato himself so ambiguous and uncertain in his discourses of a deity , sometimes making him an eternal mind , sometimes asserting the whole world , sun , moon , stars , earth , souls , and all to be gods , and even those that were worshipped among the heathens as tully tells us out of his timaeus and de legibus ; which as velleius the epicurean there speaks , et per se sunt falsa & sibi invicem repugnantia . this is the first inconvenience following the mixture of truth and falshood , for the sake of the falshood to question the truth its self it was joyned with . the other is as great which follows , when truth and falshood are mixed , for the sake of the truth to embrace the falshood . which is a mistake as common as the other , because men are apt to think that things so vastly different as truth and falshood , could never blend , or be incorporate together ; therefore when they are certain they have some truth , they conclude no falshood to be joyned with it . and this i suppose to have been the case of the more credulous and vulgar heathen , as the other was of the philosphers ; for they finding mankind to agree in this , not only that there is a god , but that he must be worship'd , did without scruple make use of the way of worship among them , as knowing there must be some , and they were ignorant of any else . and from hence they grew to be as confident believers of all those fables and traditions on which their idolatry was founded , as of those first principles and notions from which the necessity of divine worship did arise . and being thus habituated to the belief of these things , when truth it self was divulged among them , they suspected it to be only a corruption of some of their fables . this celsus the epicurean on all occasions in his books against the christians did fly to . thus he saith the building of the tower of babel , and the confusion of tongues , was taken from the fable of the aloadae in homers odysses ; the story of the flood from deucalion , paradise from alcinous his gardens , the burning of sodom and gomorrah from the story of phaeton . which origen well resutes from the far greater antiquity of those relations among the iewes , then any among the greeks ; and therefore the corruption of the tradition was in them , and not the iews . which must be our only way for finding out which was the original , and which the corruption , by demonstrating the undoubted antiquity of one beyond the other , whereby we must do as archimedes did by the crown of hiero , find out the exact proportions of truth and falshood which lay in all those heathen fables . and this now leads to the third account , why truth is so hardly discerned from errour , even by those who search after it , which is the great obscurity of the history of ancient times , which should decide the controversie . for there being an universal agreement in some common principles , and a frequent resemblance in particular traditions , we must of necessity , for the clearing the truth from its corruption , have recourse to ancient history , to see if thereby we can find out where the original tradition was best preserved , by what means it came to be corrupted , and whereby we may distinguish those corruptions from the truths to which they are annexed : which is the design and subject of our future discourse , viz. to demonstrate that there was a certain original and general tradition preserved in the world concerning the oldest ages of the world ; that this tradition was gradually corrupted among the heathens ; that not withstanding this corruption there were sufficient remainders of it to evidence its true original ; that the sull account of this tradition is alone preserved in those books we call the scriptures : that where any other histery seems to cross the report contained in them , we have sufficient ground to question their credibility ; and that there is sufficient evidence to clear the undoubted certainty of that histery which is contained in the sacred records of scripture . wherein we shall observe the same method which thales took in taking the height of the pyramids , by measuring the length of their shadow ; so shall we the height and antiquity of truth from the extent of the fabulous corruptions of it . which will be a work of so much the greater difficulty , because the truth we pursue after takes covert in so great antiquity , and we must be forced to follow its most flying footsteps through the dark and shady paths of ancient history . for though history be frequently called the light of truth , and the herald of times , yet that light is so faint and dim , especially in heathen nations , as not to serve to discover the face of truth from her counterseit error ; and that herald so little skill'd , as not to be able to tell us which is of the elder house . the reason is , though truth be always of greater antiquity , yet errour may have the more wrinkled face , by which it often imposeth on such who guess antiquity by deformity , and think nothing so old as that which can give the least account of its own age . this is evidently the case of those who make the pretence of ancient history a plea for insidelity , and think no argument more plausible to impugn the certainty of divine rev●lation with , then the seeming repugnancy of some pretended histories with the account of ancient time reported in the bible . which being a pretext so unworthy , & designed for solill an end , and so frequently made use of , by such who account infidelity a piece of antiquity as well as reason , it may be worth our while to shew , that it is not more liable to be baffled with reason , then to be confuted by antiquity . in order therefore to the removing of this stumbling-block in our way , i shall first evince that there is no certain credibility in any of those ancient histories which seem to contradict the scriptures , nor any ground of reason why we should assent to them , when they differ from the bible : and then prove that all those undoubted characters of a most certain and authentick historie are legible in those records contained in scripture . whereby we shall not only shew the unreasonableness of infidelity , but the rational evidence which our faith doth stand on as to these things . i shall demonstrate the first of these , viz that there is no ground of assent to any ancient histories which give an account of things different from the scriptures , from these arguments ; the apparent desect , weakness , and insufficiency of them as to the giving an account of elder times ; the monstrous confusion , ambiguity , and uncertainty of them in the account which they give ; the evident partiality of them to themselves , and inconsistency with each other . i begin with the first of these , the defect and insufficiency of them to give in such an account of elder times as may amount to certain credibility ; which if cleared , will of its self be sufficient to manifest the incompetency of those records , as to the laying any foundation for any firm assent to be given to them . now this defect and insufficiency of those histories is either more general , which lies in common to them all , or such as may be observed in a particular consideration of the histories of those several nations which have pretended highest to antiquity . the general defect is the want of timely records to preserve their histories in . for it is most evident , that the truest history in the world is liable to various corruptions through length of time , if there be no certain way of preserving it entire . and that , through the frailty of memory in those who had integrity to preserve it , through the gradual increase of barbarism and ignorance , where there are no wayes of instruction , and through the subtilty of such whose interest it may be to corrupt and alter that tradition . if we find such infinite variety and difference of men , as to the histories of their own times , when they have all possible means to be acquainted with the truth of them ; what account can we imagine can be given by those who had no certain way of preserving to posterity the most authentick relation of former ages ? especially , it being most evident , that where any certain way of preserving tradition is wanting , a people must soon degenerate into the greatest stupidity and barbarism , because all will be taken up in minding their own petty concerns , and no encouragement at all given to such publick spirits , who would mind the credit of the whole nation . for what was there for such to employ themselves upon , or spend their time in , when they had no other kind of learning among them , but some general traditions conveyed from father to son , which might be learned by such who followed nothing but domestick employments ? so that the sons of noah , after their several dispersions and plantations of several countries , did gradually degenerate into ignorance and barbarism : for upon their first setling in any countrey , they found it employment sufficient to cultivate the land , and fit themselves habitations to live in , and to provide themselves of necessities for their mutual comfort and subsistence . besides this , they were often put to removes from one place to another , where they could not conveniently reside ( which thucydides speaks much of as to the ancient state of greece ) and it was a great while before they came to imbody themselves together in towns and cities , and from thence to spread into provinces , and to settle the bounds and extents of their territories . the first age after the plantation of a country being thus spent , the next saw it necessary to fall close to the work of husbandry , not only to get something out of the earth for their subsistence ; but when by their diligence they had so far improved the ground , that they had no● only enough for themselves , but ●o spare to others , they then found out a way for commerce one with ano her by exchange . this way of traffick made them begin to raise their hopes higher of enriching themselves ; which when some of them had done , they bring the poorer under their power and reign as lords over them ; these rich with their dependants strive to outvy each other , whence came wars & mutual contentions , till they who got the better over their adversaries , took still greater authority into their hands ( thence at first every city almost , and adjacent territory , had a king over it ) which by conflicting with each other , at last brought several cities and territories under the power of one particular person , who thereby came to reign as sole monarch over all within his dominions . for although there be some reason to think that the leaders of several colonies had at first superiority over all that went with them ; yet there being evidence in few nations of any continued succession of monarchs from the posterity of noah , and so great evidence of so many petty royalties almost in every city ( as we read of such multitudes of kings in the small territory of canaan , when ioshua conquered it ) this makes it at least probable to me , that after the death of the first leader , by reason of their poverty and dispersedness of habitations , they did not incorporate generally into any civil government under one head , but did rise by degrees in the manner before set down ; but yet so that in the petty divisions some prerogative might be given to him who derived his pedigree the nearest from the first founder of that plantation ; which in all probability is the meaning of thucydides , who tells us when the riches of greece began to increase , and their power improved , tyrannies were erected in most cities ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) for before that time kingdoms with honours limited were hereditary ) for so the scholiast explains it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . this then being the state and case of most nations in the first ages after their plantation , there was no likelyhood at all of any great improvement in knowledge among them ; nay so far from it , that for the first ages , wherein they conflicted with poverty & necessity , there was a necessary decay among them , of what knowledge had been conveyed to them ; because their necessities kept them in continual employment ; and after that they conquer'd them , they began to conquer each other , that till such time as they were setled in peace under established common-wealths , there was no leisure , nor opportunity for any arts and sciences to flourish , without which all certain histories of their own former state must vanish and dwindle into some fabulous stories . and so we find they did in most nations , which thence are able to give no other account of themselves , but that they sprung out of the earth where they lived ; from which opinion the athenians used to wear of old their golden grashoppers , as thucydides relates . what account can we then expect of ancient times from such nations which were so defective in preserving their own originals ? now this defectiveness of giving testimony of ancient times by these nations , will further appear by these two considerations : first , what ways there are for communicating knowledge to posterity . secondly , how long it was ere these nations came to be masters of any way of certain communicating their conceptions to their successors . three general ways there are whereby knowledge may be propagated from one to another , by representative symbols , by speech , and by letters . the first of these was most common in those elder times , for which purpose clemens alexandrinus produceth the testimony of an ancient grammarian dionysius thrax in his exposition of the symbol of the wheels : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : that some persons made a representation of their actions to others , not only by speech , but by symbols too . which any one who is any ways conversant in the learning of those ancient times , will find to have been the chief way of propagating it ( such as it was ) from one to another , as is evident in the hieroglyphicks of the aegyptians , and the custome of symbols from thence derived among the graecian philosophers , especially the pythagoreans . it was the solemn custome of the aegyptians to wrap up all the little knowledge they had under such mystical representations , which were unavoidably clogg'd with two inconveniences very unsuitable to the propagation of knowledge , which were obscurity and ambiguity : for it not only cost them a great deal of time to gather up such symbolical things which might represent their conceptions ; but when they had pitched upon them , they were liable to a great variety of interpretations , as is evident in all those remainders of them , preserved by the industry of some ancient writers , as in their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or golden images of their gods , they had ingraved two dogs , an hawk , and an ibis . by the dogs some understood the two hemisphaeres , others the two tropicks ; by the hawk some understood the sun , others the aequinoctial ; by the ibis some the moon , others the zodiack , as is evident in clemens , who reports it . this way then is a most unfit way to convey any ancient tradition , by being both obscure , ambiguous , and unable to express so much as to give any certain light to future ages of the passages of the precedent . the other ways of conveying knowledge , are either by speech , or by letters . the first must be by some vocal cabala delivered down from father to son ; but words being of so perishing a nature , and mans memory so weak and frail in retaining them , it is necessary for a certain communication of knowledge , that some way should be found out more lasting then words , more firm then memory , more faithful then tradition : which could not otherwise be imagined , then that the author of his own conceptions should himself leave them to the view of all posterity ; in order to which , some way must be contrived whereby mens voices might be seen , and mens fingers speak . but how to express all kind of sounds , with the several draughts of a pen , and to confine them within the compass of letters , is deservedly called by galileo , admirandarum omnium inventionum humanarum signaculum , the choicest of all humane inventions . and had we no other evidence of the great obscurity of ancient history , the great difference as to the first inventer of letters , would be a sufficient demonstration of it . for almost every nation hath had a several author of them : the iews derive them from adam or moses ; the egyptians attribute their invention to thoyt or mercury ; the grecians , to cadmus , the phoenicians to taautus , the latins to saturn , others to the aethiopians : and lest the pygmies should be without their enemies , some think they were found out a gruum volatu , from the manner of the flying of cranes . thus it hath happened with most nations ; what was first among themselves , they thought to be the first in the world . but by whomsever they were first invented , we are certain they were but lately in use in that nation , which hath most vainly arrogated the most to its self in point of antiquity , and yet had the least reason ( i mean the graecians . ) thence the egyptian priest patenit truly told solon the greeks were always children , because they had nothing of the antiquities of former ages . if we may believe iosephus , they had no writings earlier then homer ; but herein he is conceived to have served his cause too much , because of the inscription of amphytrio at thebes in the temple of apollo ismenius in the old ionick letters , and two others of the same age to be seen in herodotus , and because of the writings of lynus , orpheus , musaeus , oroebantius , traezenius , thaletas , melesander , and others . this we are certain of , the grecians had not the use of letters among them till the time of cadmus , the phoenicians coming into greece , whither he came to plant a colony of phoenicians there , whence arose the story of his pursuit of europa , as conon in photius tels us . and it is very probable which learned men have long since observed , that the name cadmus comes from the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and may relate as an appellative either to his dignity , as iunius in his academia conjectures , or more probably to his country , the east , which is frequently call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in scripture . some have conjectured further , that his proper name was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , upon what reason i know not , unless from hence , that thence by a duplication of the word , came the greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , who seems to have been no other then cadmus , as will appear by comparing their stories together . only one was the name his memory was preserved by at athens , where the cadmeans inhabited , as appears by the gephyraei whom herodotus tells us were phoenicians that came with cadmus , ( and others fancy the academia there was originally called cadmea ) and the name cadmus was preserved chiefly among the baeotians in memory of the country whence he came : it being likely to be imposed by them upon his first landing in the country , as many learned persons conceive the name of an hebrew was given to abraham by the canaanites upon his passing over the river euphrates . on this account then it stands to reason , that the name which was given him as a stranger , should be longest preserved in the place where it was first imposed . or if we take 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the other sense , as it imports antiquity ; so there is still a higher probability of the assinity of the names of cadmus and ogyges ; for this is certain that the greeks had no higher name for a matter of antiquity then to call it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as the scholiast on hesiod , hesychius , suidas , eustathius on dionysius , and many others observe . and which yet advanceth the probability higher , lutatius or lactantius the scholiast on statius , tells us , the other greeks had this from the thebans ; for saith he , thebani res antiquas ogygias nominabant . but that which puts it almost beyond meer probability is , that varro , festus , pausanias , apollonius , aeschylus , and others make ogyges the founder of the baeotian thebes , which were thence called ogygiae ; and strabo and stephanus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 further say , that the whole country of baeotia was called ogygia ; now all that mention the story of cadmus , attribute to him the founding of the baeotian thebes . and withal it is observable that in the vatican appendix of the greek , proverbs , we read cadmus called ogyges ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . meursius indeed would have it corrected , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as it is read in suidas ; but by the favour of so learned a man , it seems more probable that suidas should be corrected by that , he bringing no other evidence of any such person as cadmus a son of ogyges , but only that reading in suidas , whereas we have discovered many probable grounds to make them both the same . that which i would now infer from hence is , the utter impossibility of the greeks giving us any certain account of ancient times , when a thing so modern in comparison as cadmus his coming into greece , is thought by them a matter of so great antiquity , that when they would describe a thing very ancient , they described it by the name of ogyges , who was the same with cadmus . now cadmus his coming into greece , is generally , by historians , placed about the time of ioshua , whence some ( i will not say how happily ) have conjectured , that cadmus and his company were some of the canaanites who fled from ioshua , as others are supposed to have done into africa , if procopius his pillar hath strength enough to bear such a conjecture . but there is too great a confusion about the time of cadmus his arrival in greece , to affirm any thing with any great certainty about it . yet those who disagree to that former computation , place it yet lower . vossius makes agenor , cadmus his father , cotemporary with the latter end of moses , or the beginning of ioshua ; and so cadmus his time must fall somewhat after . iac. capellus placeth cadmus in the third year of othoniel . parius the author of the greek chronicle , in the marmora arundelliana makes his coming to greece to be in the time of hellen the son of deucalion ; which capellus fixeth on the . of moses , a. m. . but mr. selden conceives it somewhat lower : and so it must be , if we follow clemens alexandrinus , who placeth it in the time of lynceus king of the argives , which he saith was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the . generation after moses , which will fall about the time of samuel : but though it should be so late , it would be no wonder it should be reckoned a matter of so great antiquity among the grecians ; for the eldest records they have of any king at athens , begins at the time of moses , whose co-temporary cecrops is generally thought to be ; for at his time it is the parian chronicle begins . now that the grecians did receive their very letters from the phoenicians by cadmus , is commonly acknowledged by the most learned of the greeks themselves , as appears by the ingenuous confession of herodotus , philostratus , critius in athenaeus , zenodotus in laertius , timon philiasius in sixtus empiricus , and many others : so that it were to no purpose to offer to prove that , which they who arrogate so much to themselves , do so freely acknowledge . which yet hath been done to very good purpose by ioseph scaliger and bochartus , and many others from the form of the letters , the order and the names of them . it seems probable that at first they might use the form of the phoenician letters , in which herodotus tells us the three old inscriptions were extant ; and diodorus tells us , that the brass pot which cadmus offered to minerva lyndia , had an inscription on it in the phoenician letters , but afterwards the form of the letters came by degrees to be changed , when for their greater expedition in writing they left the old way of writing towards the left hand , for the more natural and expedite way of writing towards the right , by which they exchanged the site of the strekes in several letters , as is observed by the forecited learned authors . not that the old ionick letters were nearer the phoenician , and distinct from the modern , as ios. scaliger in his learned discourse on the original of the greek letters conceives ; for the ionick letters were nothing else but the full alphabet of . with the additions of palamedes , and simonides cous , as pliny tells us , that all the greeks consented in the use of the ionick letters ; but the old attick letters came nearer the phoenician , because the athenians , long after the alphabet was increased to . continued still in the use of the old . which were brought in by cadmus , which must needs much alter the way of writing ; for in the old letters , they writ theo● for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which made pliny , with a great deal of learning and truth , say , that the old greek letters were the same with the roman . thence the greeks called their ancient letters 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as appears by harpocration and hesychius , not that they were so much distinct from others , but because they did not admit of the addition of the other eight letters , which difference of writing is in a great measure the cause of the different dialect between the athenians and ionians properly so called . we see then the very letters of the greeks were no elder then cadmus ; and for any considerable learning among them , it was not near so old . some assert indeed that history began from the time of cadmus ; but it is by a mistake of him for a younger cadmus , which was cadmus milesius , whom pliny makes to be the first writer in prose ; but that he after attributes to pherecydes syrius , and history to cadmus milesius : and therefore i think it far more probable , that it was some writing of this latter cadmus , which was transcribed and epitomized by bion proconesius , although clemens alexandrinus seems to attribute it to the elder . we see how unable then the grecians were to give an account of elder times , that were guilty of so much infancy and nonage , as to begin to learn their letters almost in the noon-tide of the world , and yet long after this to the time of the first olympiad all their relations are accounted fabulous . a fair account then we are like to have from them of the first antiquities of the world , who could not speak plain truth till the world was above . years old ; for so it was when the olympiads began . so true is the observation of iustin martyr , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) : the greeks had no exact history of themselves before the olympiads ; but of that more afterwards . this is now the first defect which doth infringe the credibility of these histories , which is the want of timely and early records to digest their own history in . chap. ii. of the phoenician and aegyptian history . the particular defect in the historys of the most learned heathen nations . first the phoenicians . of sanchoniathon , his antiquity , and fidelity . of jerom-baal , baal-berith . the antiquity of tyre . scaliger vindicated against bochartus abibalus . the vanity of phoenician theology . the imitation of it by the gnosticks . of the aegyptian history . the antiquity and authority of hermes trismegistus . of his inscriptions on pillars , transcribed by manetho . his fabulousness thence discovered . terra seriadica . of seths pillars in josephus , and an account whence they were taken . having already shewed a general defect in the ancient heathen histories , as to an account of ancient times ; we now come to a closer , and more particular consideration of the histories of those several nations which have born the greatest name in the world for learning and antiquity . there are four nations chiefly which have pretended the most to antiquity in the learned world , and whose historians have been thought to deliver any thing contrary to holy writ in their account of ancient times , whom on that account we are obliged more particularly to consider ; and those are the phoenicians , chaldeans , aegyptians , and graecians ; we shall therefore see what evidence of credibility there can be in any of these , as to the matter of antiquity of their records , or the histories taken from them . and the credibility of an historian depending much upon the certainty and authority of the records he makes use of : we shall both consider of what value and antiquity the pretended records are , and particularly look into the age of the several historians . as to the graecians , we have seen already an utter impossibility of having any ancient records among them , because they wanted the means of preserving them , having so lately borrowed their letters from other nations . unless as to their account of times they had been as carefull as the old romans were to number their years by the several clavi , or nails , which they fixed on the temple doors : which yet they were not in any capacity to do , not growing up in an entire body , as the roman empire did , but lying so much seattered and divided into so many pet●y republicks , that they minded very little of concernment to the whole nation . the other three nations have dese●vedly a name of far greater antiquity then any the graecians could ever pretend to ; who yet were unmeasurably guilty of an impotent affectation of antiquity ; and arrogating to themselves , as growing on their own ground , what was with a great deal of pains and industry gathered but as the gleanings from the fuller harvest of those nations they resorted to . which is not only true as to the greatest part of their learning , but as to the account likewise they give of ancient times ; the chief and most ancient histories among them being only a corruption of the history of the elder nations ; especially phoenicia and aegypt : for of these two philo biblius the translator of the ancient phoenician historian sanchoniathon , saith , they were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the most ancient of all the barbarians , from whom the others derived their theology ; which he there particularly instanceth in . we begin therefore with the phoenician history , whose most ancient and famous historian is sanchoniathon , so much admired and made use of by the shrewdest antagonist ever christianity met with , the philosopher porphyrius . but therein was seen the wonderful providence of god , that out of this eater came forth meat , and out of that lion honey ; that the most considerable testimonies by him produced against our religion , were of the greatest strength to refute his own . for he being of too great learning to be satisfied with the vain pretences of the graecians , he made it his business to search after the most ancient records , to find out somewhat in them to confront with the antiquity of the scriptures ; but upon his search could find none of greater veneration then the phoenician history , nor any author contending for age with this sanchoniathon . yet when he had made the most of his testimony , he was fain to yield him younger then moses● , though he supposeth him elder then the trojan wars . and yet herein was he guilty of a most gross 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not much exceeding the graecians in his skill in chronology , when he makes semiramis coexistent with the siege of troy : as is evident in his testimony produced at large by eusebius out of his fourth book against the christians ; nay , he goes to prove the truth of sanchoniathons history by the agreement of it with that of moses concerning the iews , both as to their names and places , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : whereby he doth evidently assert the greater truth and antiquity of moses his history , when he proves the truth of sanchoniathons from his consonancy with that . two things more porphyrie insists on to manifest his credibility ; the one i suppose relates to what he reports concerning the iews , the other concerning the phoenicians themselves . for the first , that he made use of the records of ierombaal the priest of the god ieuo , or rather iao ; for the other , that he used all the records of the several cities , and the sacred inscriptions in the temples . who that ierombaal was , is much discussed among learned men , the finding out of which , hath been thought to be the most certain way to determine the age of sanchoniathon . the learned bochartus conceives him to be gideon , who in scripture is called ierub-baal , which is of the same sense in the phoenician language , only after their custome changing one b into m , as in ambubajae sambuca , &c. but admitting the conjecture of this learned person concerning ierub-baal , yet i see no necessity of making sanchoniathon and him co-temporary ; for i no where find any thing mentioned in porphyrie implying that , but only that he made use of the records of ierub-baal , which he might very probably do at a considerable distance of time from him , whether by those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we mean the annals written by him , or the records concerning his actions ; either of which might give sanchoniathon considerable light into the history either of the isralites or phoenicians . and it is so much the more probable , because presently after the death of gideon , the israelites worshipped baal-berith ; by which most probably is meant the idol of berith or berytus , the place where sanchoniathen lived ; by which means the berytians might come easily acquainted with all the remarkable passages of ierubbaal . but i cannot conceive how sanchoniathon could be cotemporary with gideon ( which yet if he were , he falls years short of moses ) especially because the building of tyre , which that author mentions as an ancient thing ( as hath been observed by scaliger ) is by our best chronologers placed about the time of gideon , and about years before the destruction of troy. i know bochartus , to avoid this argument , hath brought some evidence of several places called tyrus in phoenicia , from scylax his periplus ; but none , that there was any more then one tyrus of any great repute for antiquity . now this tyrus iosephus makes but years elder then solomons temple , and iustin but one year elder then the destruction of troy. neither can any account be given why sidon should be so much celebrated by ancient poets , as strabo tells us , when tyre is not so much as mentioned by homer , if the famous tyre were of so great antiquity and repute as is pretended . it cannot be denied but that there is mention in scripture of a tyre elder then this we speak of , which we read of ioshua . . which some think to be that wch was called palaetyrus , which strabo makes to be furlongs distant from the great tyre ; but pliny includes palaetyrus within the circumference of tyre , and so makes the whole circuit of the city to be miles . it is not to me so certain to what place the name of palaetyrus refers , whether to any tyrus before the first building of the great tyre , or to the ruines of the great tyre after its destruction by nebuchadnezzar , compared with the new tyre , which was built more inward to the sea , and was after besieged by alexander the great . it may seem probable that palaetyrus may relate to the ruins of the great tyre , in that it was after included in its circuit , and chiefly because of the prediction in ezekiel . . thou shalt be built no more ; for the tyre erected after , was built not on the continent , but almost in the sea. if so , then palaetyrus , or the old famous tyrus might stand upon a rock upon the brink-of the continent , and so the great argument of bo-chartus is easily answered , which is , that after it is mentioned in sanchoniathons history , that hypsouranius dwelt in tyre upon the falling out between him and his brother usous , usous first adventured 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to go to sea , which , saith he , evidently manifests that the tyre mentioned by sanchoniathon was not the famous insular tyrus , but some other tyre . this argument , i say , is now easily answered , if the famous tyre before its destruction by nebuchadnezzar did stand upon the continent ; for then it might be the old famous tyre still , notwithstanding what sanchoniathon speaks of the first venturing to sea after tyre was built . so then i conceive these several ages agreeable to the same tyre ; the first was when it was a high strong rock on the sea-side without many inhabitants ; so i suppose it was when mentioned by ioshua as the bound of the tribe of asher . the second age was , when it was built a great city by the sidonians upon the former place , and grew very populous and famous , which lasted till nebuchadnezzars time ; after this , though it were never built up in the continent again , yet a little further into the sea , a new and goodly city was erected , which was called new tyre , and the remains on the continent side palaetyrus . thus far then we have made good scaligers opinion against bochartus , that the famous sanchoniathon is not so old as he is pretended to be . which will be further manifest , if that abibalus , to whom sanchoniathon is supposed to dedicate his history , were the father to hiram , co-temporary with solomon , as ios. scaliger supposeth , who was years after the destruction of troy. in the tyrian dynasties produced by scaliger out of the phoenician annals , this abibalus is the first who occurs , and is co-temporary with david : sanchoniathon then is of no great antiquity , if this were the time he lived in . but bochartus well observes , that it is not spoken of abibalus king of tyre , but of abibalus king of berytus , whom we may allow to be somewhat nearer the time of moses then the other abibalus , as the phoenician annals make it appear , as porphyry tells us ; but yet we find his antiquity is not so great as to be able to contest with moses , as porphyry himself confesseth , although we may freely acknowledge him to be far older then any of the greek historians ; which is all vossius contends for , and sufficiently proves ; but we are far from yielding him co-temporary with semiramis , as porphyry would have him , and yet makes him junior to moses , and to live about the time of the trojan war , which is to reconcile the distance of near years : such miserable confusion was there in the best learned heathens in their computation of ancient times . having thus cleared the antiquity of sanchoniathon , and the phoenician history , we are next to consider the fidelity of it . this sanchoniathon is highly commended for , both by porphyry , and his translator into greek , philo byblius , who lived in adrians time ; and theodoret thinks his name in the phoenician language signifies 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which bochartus endeavours to fetch from thence , and conceives the name to be given him when he set himself to write his history ; and he wisheth , and so do we , that he had been then vir sui nominis , and made it appear by his writing that he had been a lover of truth . philo saith he was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a very learned and inquisitive man ; but either he was not so diligent to enquire after , or not so happy to light on any certain records ; or if he did , he was not overmuch a lover of truth , in delivering them to the world . how faithful he was in transcribing his history from his records , we cannot be sufficient iudges of , unless we had those books of taautus , and the sacred inscriptions , and the records of cities , which he pretends to take his history from , to compare them together . but by what remains of his history , which is only the first book concerning the phoenician theology extant in eusebius , we have little reason to believe his history of the world and eldest times , without further proof then he gives of it , there being so much obscurity and confusion in it , when he makes a chaos to be the first beginning of all things , and the gods to come after , makes the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the son of chryser or vulcan , and again the man born of earth to be several generations after 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , who were the first mortal men ; and yet from the two brethren 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 came two gods , whereof one was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the other 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and this latter was worshipped with as much veneration as any of their gods. yet from these things , as foolish and ridiculous as they are , it is very probable the gnosticks and the several subdivisions of them might take the rise of their several aeones and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : for here we find 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 made two of the number of the gods , but the rest of the names , they according to their several sects took a liberty of altering , according to their several fancies . this is far more probable to me , then that either hesiods 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should be the ground of them ; or the opinion of a late german divine , who conceives that philo byblius did in imitation of the gnosticks , form this whole story of the phoenician theology . for although i am far from believing what kircher somewhere tells us , that he had once got a sight of sanchoniathons original history ( it being not the first thing that learned man hath been deceived in ) yet i see no ground of so much peevishness , as because this history pretends to so much antiquity , we should therefore presently condemn it as a figment of the translator of it . for had it been so , the antagonists of porphyry , methodius , apollinaris , but especially eusebius , so well versed in antiquities , would have found out so great a cheat : although i must confess they were oft-times deceived with piae fraudes ; but then it was when they made for the christians , and not against them , as this did . but besides a fabulous confusion of things together , we have some things delivered concerning their gods , which are both contrary to all natural notions of a deity , and to those very common principles of humanity , which all acknowledge . as when 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or saturn , suspecting his son sadidus , destroyed him with his own hands , and warred against his father uranus , and after destroyed him likewise , & buried his brother atlas alive in the earth ; which being taken , as philo byblius contends they ought to be , in the literal sense , are such incongruities to all notions of a divine nature , that it is the greatest wonder there should be any that should believe there was any god , and believe these were gods together . but although there be so many gross fables and inconsistencies in this phoenician theology , that are so far from meriting belief in themselves , that it were a sufficient forfeiture of reason to say they were credible ; yet when we have a greater light in our hands of divine revelation , we may in this dung●on find out many excellent remainders of the ancient tradition , though miserably corrupted , as concerning the creation , the original of idolatry , the invention of arts , the foundation of cities , the story of abraham , of which in their due place . that which of all seems the clearest in this theology , is the open owning the original of idolatry to have been from the consecration of some eminent persons after their death , who have found out some useful things for the world while they were living : which the subtiller greeks would not admit of , viz. that the persons they worshipped were once men , which made them turn all into allegories and mystical senses to blind that idolatry they were guilty of the better among the ignorant : which makes philo byblius so very angry with the neoterick graecians , as he calls them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : that with a great deal of force and straining they turned all the stories of the gods into allegories and physical discourses . which is all the ingenuity that i know is to be found in this phoenician theology , that therein we find a free acknowledgement of the beginning of the heathen idolatry ; and therefore sanchoniathon was as far from advancing porphyries religion , as he was in the least from overthrowing the credibility of christianity . the next we come to then , are the aegyptians ; a people so unreasonably given to fables , that the wisest action they did , was to conceal their religion ; & the best office their gods had , was to hold their fingers in their mouths , to command silence to all that came to worship them . but we design not here any set discourse concerning the vanity of the aegyptian theology , which yet was so monstrously ridiculous , that even those who were over-run with the height of idolatry themselves , did make it the object of their scorn and laughter . and certainly had we no other demonstration of the greatness of mans apostacy and degeneracy , the egyptian theology would be an irrefragable evidence of it : for who could but imagine a strange lowness of spirit in those who could fall down and worship the basest and most contemptible of creatures . their temples were the best hieroglyphicks of themselves , fair and goodly structures without , but within some deformed creature enshrin'd for veneration . but though the egyptians had lost their credit so much as to matters of religion ; yet it may be supposed , that they who were so famed for wisdom and antiquity , should be able to give a full and exact account of themselves through all the ages of the world . and this they are so far from being defective in , that if you will believe them , they will give you an account of themselves many thousands of years before ever the world was made ; but the peculiar vanity of their chronology will be handled afterwards : that we now enquire into , is , what certain records they had of their own antiquity , which might call for assent from any unprejudiced mind ; whether there be any thing really answering that loud and unparalleld cry of antiquity among the egyptians , whereby they will make all other nations in comparison of them to be but of yesterday , and to know nothing . we question not now their pretence to wisdom and learning , but are the more in hopes to meet with some certain way of satisfaction concerning ancient times , where learning is supposed to have flourished so much , when even greece it self was accounted barbarous . the great basis of all the egyptian history depends on the credit of their ancient hermes , whom out of their veneration they called trismegistus ; for to him they ascribe the first invention of their learning , and all excellent arts , from him they derive their history ; their famous historian man●tho , professing to transcribe his dynastyes from the pillars of hermes . we shall therefore first see of what credit and antiquity hermes himself was , and of what account particularly those pillars were which hold up all the fabrick of manetho his dynastyes . for hermes himself , the story concerning him is so various and uncertain , that some have from thence questioned whether ever there were such a person or no , because of the strangely different account that is given of him . cotta in tully , in order to the establishing his academical doctrine of withholding assent , mentions no fewer then five mercuries ; of which , two he makes egyptian , one of them the hermes we now speak of , whom the egyptians call thoyth , and was the author both of their laws and letters . the egyptians , as appears by diodorus , make him to be a sacred scribe to osiris , and to have instructed isis ; and when osiris went upon any warlike expedition , he committed the management of affairs to him for his great wisdom . the phoenicians preserve his memory among them too : for philo byblius saith , that sanchoniathon described his theology from the books of taautus , whom the egyptians call thoyth , who was the first inventer of letters , and was a counsellor to saturn , whose advice he much relied on . what now must we pitch upon in so great uncertainties ? how come the phoenician and egyptian theology to come both from the same person , which are conceived so much to differ from each other ? if we make the stories of osiris and isis to be fabulous , and meerly allegorical , as plutarch doth , then mercury himself must become an allegory , and the father of letters must be an hieroglyphick . if we admit the egyptians narrations to be real , and seek to reduce them to truth , and thereby make osiris to be mitsraim the son of cham , who first ruled in egypt , all that we can then affirm of hermes , is , that he might be some useful person , who had a great influence both upon the king and state , and did first settle the nation in a politick way of government , whose memory on that accout the egyptians might preserve with the greatest veneration ; and when they were once fallen into that idolatry of consecrating the memories of the first contributers to the good of mankind , they thought they had the greatest reason to adore his memory , and so by degrees attributed the invention of all useful things to him . for so it is apparent they did , when iamblichus tells us the egyptians attributed all their books to mercury , as the father of them ; because he was reputed the father of wit and learning , they made all the off-springs of their brains to bear their fathers name . and this hath been the great reason the world hath been so long time imposed upon with varieties of books going under the name of hermes tresmegistus . for he was not the first of his kind , who in the early days of the christian world obtruded upon the world that cento or confused mixture of the christian , platonick , and aegyptïan doctrine , which is extant still under the name of hermes trismegistus ; whose vanity and falshood hath been sufficiently detected by learned men . there were long before his time extant several mercurial books , as they were called , which none of the wiser heathen did ever look on as any other then fables and impostures , as appears by porphyries letter to arebo the egyptian priest , and iamblichus his answer to it in his book of the aegyptian mysteries . we have then no certainty at all , notwithstanding the great fame of hermes , of any certain records of antient times , unless they be contained in those sacred inscriptions from whence manetho took his history . it must be acknowledged that the most antient way of preserving any monuments of learning in those elder times was by these inscriptions on pillars , especially among the aegyptians , as is evident from the several testimonies of galen , proclus , iamblichus , and the author of the book called sapientia secundum egytios , adjoyned to aristotle , who all concur in this , that what ever laudable invention they had among them , it was inscribed on some pillars , and those preserved in their temples , which were instead of libraries to them . manetho therefore to make his story the more probable pretends to take all his relations from these sacred inscriptions ; and as eusebius tells us , translated the whole egyptian history into greek , beginning from their gods , and continuing his history down near the time of darius codomannus , whom alexander conquered : for in eusebius his chronica mention is made of manetho his history , ending . year of artaxerxes ochus , which , saith vossius , was in the second year of . olympiad . this manetho gebenyta was high priest of heliopolis in the time of ptolomaeus philadelphus , at whose request he writ his history , which he digested into three tomes , the first containing the . dynastyes of the gods and heroes , the d . . dynasties , the d. . all containing , according to his fabulous computation , the sum of . years . these dynasties are yet preserved , being first epitomized by iulius africanus , from him transcribed by eusebius in his chronica , from eusebius by georgius syncellus , out of whom they are produced by ios. scaliger , and may be seen both in eusebius , and his canones isagogici . now manetho , as appears by eusebius , voucheth this as the main testimony of his credibility , that he took his history , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . from some pillars in the land of seriad , in which they were inscribed in the sacred dialect by the first mercury tyth , and after the stood were translated out of the sacred dialect into the greek tongue in hieroglyphick characters , and are laid up in books among the revestryes of the egyptian temples , by agathodaemon , the second mercury , the father of tat. certainly this fabulous author could not in fewer words have more fully manifested his own impostures , nor blasted his own credit more then he hath done in these ; which it is a wonder so many learned men have taken so little notice of , which have found frequent occasion to speak of manetho and his dynastyes . this i shall make appear by some great improbabilities , and other plain impossibilities which are couched in them . the improbabilities are , first such pillars , being in such a place as seriad , and that place no more spoken of either by himself , or by any other egyptians , nor any use made of these ins●riptions by any other but himself . as to this terra seriadica where it should be , the very learned and inquisitive ioseph scaliger plainly gives out , and ingenuously professeth his ignorance . for in his notes on the fragments of manetho in eusebius , when he comes to that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he only saith , quae nobis ignota , quaerant studiosi . but isaac vossius in his late discourses de aetate mundi , cries 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and confidently perswades himself that it is the same with seirath , mentioned iudg. . . indeed were there nothing else to be considered but affinity of names , it might well be the same , but that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which we render the stone-quarries , should signifie these pillars of mercury , is somewhat hard to conceive . the seventy render it , as himself observes , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by which they understand graven images : so the word is used chron. . . deut. . . isai. . . the vulgar latine renders it ad locum idolorum , which were the certain interpretation if chytraeus his conjecture were true , that eglon had lately set up idols there ; but if it be meant of pillars , i cannot but approve of iunius his interpretation , which i conceive bids fairest to be the genuine sense of the place , viz. that these stones here , were the stones pitched by ioshua in gilgal after the israelites passed over iordan ; and these stones are said to be by gilgal , iudg. . . so that notwithstanding this handsom conjecture , we are as far to seek for the pillars of mercury as ever we were , and may be so to the worlds end . secondly , the standing of these pillars during the stood , which must be supposed certainly to have some singular vertue in them to resist such a torrent of waters , which overthrew the strongest built houses , and most compacted cities ; the plain impossibilities are first , that manetho should transcribe his dynastyes from the beginning of the history of aegypt , to almost the time of alexander , out of sacred inscriptions of thoyth , who lived in the beginning of the very first dynasty according to his own computation . sure this thoyth was an excellent prophet , to write an history for above , years to come , as manetho reckons it . secondly , it is as well still , that this history after the flood should be translated into hieroglyphick characters ; what kind of translation is that ? we had thought hieroglyphicks had been representations of things , and not of sounds and letters , or words : how could this history have at first been written in any tongue , when it was in hieroglyphicks ? do hieroglyphicks speak in several languages , and are they capable of changing their tongues ? but thirdly , it is as good still , that the second mercury or agathodaemon did translate this history so soon after the flood into greek : was the greek tongue so much in request so soon after the flood ? that the aegyptian history for the sake of the greeks must be translated into their language ? nay , is it not evident from herodotus and diodorus , that the graecians were not permitted so much as any commerce with the aegyptians , till the time of psammet hicus , which sell out in the . dynesty of manetho , and about a century after the beginning of the olympiads . we see then how credible an author manetho is , and what truth there is like to be in the account of ancient times given by the aegyptian historians , when the chief of them so lamentably and ominously stumbles in his very entrance into it . and yet as fabulous as this account is , which manetho gives of his taking his history from these pillars before the flood , i cannot but think that iosephus , an author otherwise of good credit , took his famous story of seths pillars concerning astronomical observations before the flood , from this story of manetho ; and therefore i cannot but look upon them with as jealous an eye as on the other , although i know how fond the world hath been upon that most ancient monument , as is pretended , of learning in the world . du bartas hath writ a whole poem on these pillars , and the truth is , they are fitter subjects for poets then any else , as will appear on these considerations . first , how strangely improbable is it , that the posterity of seth , who , as is pretended , did foreknow a destruction of the world to be by a flood , should busie themselves to write astronomical observations on pillars , for the benefit of those who should live after it . could they think their pillars should have some peculiar exemption above stronger structures , from the violence of the rough and furious waters ? if they believed the flood absolutely universal , for whom did they intend their observations ? if not , to what end did they make them , when the persons surviving might communicate their inventions to them ? but secondly , if either one or both these pillars remained , whence comes it to pass that neither the chaldeans , nor any of the eldest pretenders to astronomy , should neither mention them , nor make any use of them ? nay thirdly , whence came the study of astronomy to be so lamentably defective in those ancient times , if they had such certain observations of the heavenly bodies gathered by so much experience of the persons who lived before the flood ? fourthly , how comes iosephus himself to neglect this remarkable testimony of the truth of scripture-history in his books against appion , if he had thought it were such as might be relyed on ? fifthly , how comes iosephus so carelesly to set down the place in syria where these pillars stood , that inquisitive persons might have satisfied themselves with the sight of the pillar at least , and what kind of characters those observations were preserved in ? but now , if we compare this of iosephus with manetho his story , we shall find them so exactly resemble each other , that we may well judge all those pillars to have been taken out of the same quarry . two things make it yet more probable : first , the name of the place wherein they stood , which eustathius in hexaemeron takes out of iosephus , and calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the very same place with that in manetho . the other is the common use of the name of seth among the aegyptians , as not only appears by plutarch de ● side & osiride , but by this very place of manctho ; where it follows 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a book of his bearing the title which vettius valens antiochenus tells us is not called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . now therefore iosephus , who frequently useth the testimony of heathen writers , and frequently of this manetho , endeavoured to bring this fabulous relation of manetho as near the truth as he could ; therefore in stead of thoyth he puts seth , and the fabulous history of aegypt , the inventions of the patriarchs , and syria in stead of seriadica , a country too large to find these pillars in . chap. iii. of the chaldean history . the contest of antiquity among heathen nations , and the ways of deciding it . of the chaldean astrology , and the foundation of iudicial astrology . of the zabii , their founder , who they were , no other then the old chaldees . of berosus and his history . an account of the fabulous dynastyes of berosus and manetho . from the translation of the scripture history into greek in the time of ptolomy . of that translation and the time of it . of demetrius phalereus . scaligers arguments answered . manetho writ after the septuagint , proved against kircher ; his arguments answered . of rabbinical and arabick authors , and their little credit in matter of history . the time of berosus enquired into , his writing co-temporary with philadelphus . the next whom our enquiry leads us to , are the chaldeans , a nation of great and undoubted antiquity , being in probability the first formed into a national government after the flood , and therefore the more capable of having these arts and sciences flourish among them , which might preserve the memory of eldest times to the view of posterity . and yet even among these who enjoyed all the advantages of ease , quiet , and a flourishing empire , we find no undoubted or credible records preserved , but the same vanity as among the aegyptians , in arrogating antiquity to themselves beyond all proportion of reason or satisfaction from their own history , to fill up that vast measure of time with , which makes it most probable what diodorus observes of them , that in things pertaining to their arts they made use of lunar years of days ; so they had need , when tully tells us that they boasted of observations of the stars for years , which after diodorus his computation , and the vulgar account of years from the beginning of the world , will fall near upon , if not before the creation . it had been impossible for them to have been so extravagant in their accounts of themselves , had they but preserved the history of their nation in any certain records . for want of which , the tradition of the eldest times , varying in the several families after their dispersion , and being gradually corrupted by the policy of their leaders , and those corruptions readily embraced by the predominancy of self-love in the several nations , thence arose those vain and eager contests between the chaldaeans , scythians , aegyptians , and aethiopians , concerning the antiquity of their several nations : which may be seen in diodorus , and others : by which it most evidently appears that they had no certain history of their own nations : for none of them insist upon any records , but only upon several probabilities from the nature of their country , and the climates they lived under . neither need psammeticus have been put to that ridiculous way of deciding the controversie by his two infants bred up without any converse with men , concluding the language they spake would manifest the great antiquity of the nation it belonged to : whereas it is more then probable they had spoken none at all , had they not learned the inarticulate voice of the goats they had more converse with then men . the making use of such ways to decide this controversie doth not only argue the great weakness of those times as to natural knowledge ; but the absolute defect and insufficiency of them , as to the giving any certain account of the state of ancient times . of which the chaldaeans had advantages above all other heathen nations , not only living in a setled country , but in or near that very place where the grand ancestors of the world had their chief abode and residence . whereby we see how unfaithful a thing tradition is , and how soon it is corrupted or fails , where it hath no sure records to bottom its self upon . but indeed it is the less wonder that there should be a confusion of histories , where there had been before of tongues ; and that such whose design and memory god had blasted before , should afterwards forget their own original . but as if the chaldaeans had retained something still of their old aspiring mind to reach up to heaven , the only thing they were eminent for , and which they were careful in preserving of , was some astronomical observations , which tully tells us they had a great conveniency for , by the reason of the plain and even situation of their country ; whereby they might have a larger prospect of the heavenly bodies , then those who lived in mountainous countries could have . and yet even for this ( which they were so famous for , that the name chaldaeans passed for astrologers in the roman empire ) we have no very great reason to admire their excellency in it , considering how soon their skill in astronomy dwindled into that which by a great catachresis is called judicial astrology . the original of which is most evident among them , as all other heathen nations , to have been from the divinity which they attributed to the stars ; in which yet they were far more rational then those who now admire that art : for , granting their hypothesis , that the stars were gods , it was but reasonable they should determine contingent effects ; but it is far from being so with them who take away the foundation of all those celestial houses , and yet attribute the same effects to them , which they did , who believed a divinity in them . the chaldaeans , as diodorus relates , set stars under the planets ; these they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; others they had as princes over these , which they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; the former were as the privy counsellors , and these the princes over them , by whom in their courses they supposed the course of the year to be regulated . we see then what a near affinity there was between astrology and the divinity of the stars , which makes ptolomy call them atheists who condemned astrology , because thereby they destroyed the main of their religion , which was the worshipping the stars for gods. but it seems by strabo , that one of the sects of the chaldaeans did so hold to astronomy still , that they wholly rejected genethlialogy , which caused a great division among the orchoëni and the borsippeni , two sects among them , so called from the places of their habitations . and if we reckon the zabii among the chaldeans as maimonides seems to do , we have a further evidence of the planetary deities so much in request among the chaldeans ; for , the description he gives of them is to this purpose , that they had no other gods but the stars to whom they made statues and images , to the sun golden , to the moon silver , and so to the rest of the planets of the mettals dedicated to them . those images derived an influence from the stars to which they were erected , which had thence a faculty of foretelling future things ; which is an exact description of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or talismans so much in request among the heathens ; such as the palladium of troy is supposed by learned men to have been . these talismans are by the iews called davids bucklers , and are much of the same nature with the antient teraphi● , both being accurately made according to the positions of the heavens ; only the one were to foretell future things , the other for the driving away some calamity . concerning these zabii maimonides tells us , that the understanding their rites would give a great deal of light to several passages of scripture which now lye in obscurity : but little is supposed to be yet further known of them then what scaliger hath said , that they were the more eastern chaldeans , which he fetcheth from the signification of the word ; several of their books are extant saith scaliger , among the arabians , but none of them are yet discovered to the european world . salmasius thinks these zabii were the chaldeans inhabiting mesopotamia , to which it is very consonant which maimonides saith , that abraham had his education among them . said batricides cited by mr. selden , attributes the original of their religion to the time of nahor , and to zaradchath the persian as the author of it , who is conceived to be the same with zoroaster , who in all probability is the same with the zertoost of the persecs , a sect of the antient persians living now among the banyans in the indyes . these give a more full and exact account concerning the original , birth , education , and enthusiasmes , or revelations of their zertoost then any we meet with in any greek historians ; three books they tell us of which zertoost received by revelation , or rather one book , consisting of three several tracts , whereof the first was concerning judicial astrology , which they call astoodeger ; the second concerning physick or the knowledge of natural things ; the third was called zertoost from the bringer of it containing their religious rites ; the first was committed to the iesopps or magies , the second to physicians , the third to the darooes or church-men , wherein are contained the several precepts of their law ; we have likewise the rites and customs of these persees in their worship of fire , with many other particular rites of theirs published sometime since by one mr. lord , who was a long time resident among them at surrat ; by which we may not only understand much of the religion of the antient persians , but if i mistake not , somewhat of the zabii too . my reasons are , because the antient zaradcha or zoroaster is by said batricides made the author of the zabii as we have seen already , who was undoubtedly the founder of the persian worship , or rather a promoter of it among the persians ; for ammianus marcellinus tells us that he was instructed in the rites of the chaldeans which he added to the persian rites ; besides , their agreement in the chief point of idolatry , the worship of the sun , and consequently the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or symbol of the sun , the eternal fire , is evident ; which as far as we can learn , was the great and most early idolatry of the eastern countries ; and further we finde god in leviticus . . threatning to destroy their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 their images of the sun , some render it ; but most probably by that word is meant the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the hearths where they kept their perpetual fire , for those are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is used both for the sun and fire . now hence it appears that this idolatry was in use among the nations about palaestine ; else there had been no need of so severe a threatning against it , and therefore most probably the rites of the zabii ( which must help us to explain the reasons of some particular positive precepts in the levitical law relating to idolatry ) are the same with the rites of the chaldeans and persians , who all agreed in this worship of the sun and fire ; which may be yet more probable from what maimonides saith of them , that gens zabaea erat gens quae implevit totum orbem ; it could not be then any obscure nation , but such as had the largest spread in the eastern countries , which could be no other then the antient chaldeans from whom the persians derived their worship . it may not seen altogether improbable that balaam the famous southsayer was one of these zabii , especially if according to salmasius his judgement they inhabited mesopotamia ; for balaams country seems to be there : for it is said , numb . . . that he dwelt in pethor by the river , i. e. saith the chal●ee paraphrast , in peor of syria by euphrates , which in scripture is called the river , esay . . but from this great obscurity as to the history of so ancient and so large a people as these zabii are supposed to be , we have a further evidence to our purpose of the defectiveness and insufficiency of the eastern histories as to the giving any full account of themselves and their own original . we are to●d indeed by some , that nabonasser did burn and destroy all the antient records of the chaldeans which they had diligently preserved amongst them before , on purpose to raise the greater reputation to himself , and blot out the memory of his usurpation , by burning the records of all their own antient kings . which is a conceit i suppose hath no other ground then that the famous aera so much celebrated by astronomers and others , did bear the name of nabonasser . which ( if we should be so greedy of all empty conjectures which tend to our purpose as to take them for truths ) would be a very strong evidence of the falshood and vanity of the chaldeans in their great pretences to antiquity . but as the case stands in reference to their history we finde more evidence from scripture to assert their just antiquity , then ever they are able to produce out of any undoubted records of their own . which yet hath been endeavoured by an author both of some credit and antiquity , the true berosus , not the counterfeit of annius , whose vizard we shall have occasion to pull off afterwards . this berosus was as iosephus and tatianus assure us , a priest of belus and a babylonian born , but afterwards flourished in the isle of co , and was the first who brought the chaldean astrology in request among the greeks ; in honour to whose name and memory , the athenians ( who were never backward in applauding those who brought them the greatest news , especially i suitable to their former superstition ) erected a statue for him with a guilded tongue . a good emblem of his history which made a fair and specious shew , but was not that within , which it pretended to be : especially where he pretends to give an account of the most antient times , and reckons up his two dynastyes before the time of belus : but of them afterwards . it cannot be denyed but some fragments of his history which have been preserved from ruine by the care and industry of iosephus , tatianus , eusebius and others , have been very useful , not only for proving the truth of the history of scripture to the heathens ; but also for illustrating some passages concerning the babylonian empire : as making nabopolasser the father of nebucadonosor , of which scaliger hath fully spoken in his notes upon his fragments . far be it from me to derogate any thing even from prophane histories , where they do not enterfere with the sacred history of scripture ; and it is certainly the best improvement of these to make them draw water to the sanctuary , and to serve as smaller stars to conduct us in our way , when we cannot enjoy the benefit of that greater light of sacred history . but that which i impeach these prophane histories of , is only an insufficiency as to that account of antient times , wherein they are so far from giving light to sacred records , that the design of setting of them up seems to be for casting a cloud upon them . which may seem somewhat the more probable in that those monstrous accounts of the aegyptian and chaldean dynastyes did never publickly appear in the world in the greek tongue , till the time that our sacred records were translated into greek at alexandria . for till that time when this authentick history of the world was drawn forth from its privacy and retirement , ( being as it were lookt up before among the israelites at iudea ) into the publick notice of the world about the time of ptolomaeus philadelphus , these vain pretenders to antiquity thought not themselves so much concerned to stand up for the credit of their own nations . for till that time the onedulous world not being acquainted with any certain report of the creation and propagation of the world , was apt to swallow any thing that was given forth by those who were had in so great esteem as the chaldean and aegyptian priests were : because it was supposed that those persons who were freed from other avocations , had more leasure to inquire into these things , and because of their mysterious hiding what they had from the vulgar , were presumed to have a great deal more then they had . but now when the sun of righteousness was approaching this horizon of the world , and in order to that the sacred history like the day-star was to give the world notice of it , by which the former shadows and mists began to fly away , it concerned all those whose interest lay in the former ignorance of mankind , as much as they could to raise all their ignes fatui and whatever might tend to obscure that approaching light by invalidating the credit of that which came to bespeak its acceptance . it is very observable to consider what gradations and steps there were in the world to the appearance of that grand light which came down from heaven to direct us in our way thither ; how the world not long before was awakened into a greater inquisitiveness then ever before , how knowledge grew into repute , and what methods divine providence used to give the inquisitive world a taste of truth at present to stay their stomacks , and prepare them for that further discovery of it afterwards . in order to this that nation of the iews which was an inclosed garden before , was now thrown open , and many of the plants removed and set in forraign countries , not only in babylon ( where even after their return were left three famous schools of learning , sora , pombeditha , and neharda ) but in aegypt too , where multitudes of them by alexanders favour were setled at alexandria , where they had opportunity to season those two great fountains , whence the current of knowledge ran into the rest of the world . and now it was not in iewry only that god was known , but he whose name was great in israel , did make way for the knowledge of himself among all the nations of the earth . and that allwise god who directed the magi by a star to christ making use of their former skill in astronomy to take notice of that star which came now on a peculiar errand to them to lead them to their saviour ( the great god condescending so far to mankind , as to take advantage of particular inclinations , and to accommodate himself to them , for which purpose it is very observable that he appeared in another way to the wisemen then to the poor shepherds ) the same god made use of the curiosity and inquisitiveness after knowledge which was in ptolomaeus philadelphus ( which he is so much applauded for by athenaeus and others ) to bring to light the most advantageous knowleage which the world ever had before the coming of christ in the slesh . and that great library of his erecting at alexandria did never deserve that title till it had lodged those sacred records , and then it did far better then the old one of osymanduas , of which historians tells us this was the inscription 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the shop of the souls physick . but this being a matter of so much concernment in order to our better understanding the original of these vast accounts of time among the chaldaeans and aegyptians , and a subject not yet touched by any , we shall a little further improve the probability of it , by taking a more particular account of the time when the scriptures were first translated , and the occasion might thereby be given to these aegyptians & chaldaeans to produce their fabulous account into the view of the world . whether the scriptures had been ever before translated into the greek language , ( though it be asserted by some antient writers of the church , ) is very questionable , chiefly upon this account , that a sufficient reason cannot be assigned of undertaking a new translation at alexandria if there had been any extant before . especially if all those circumstances of that translation be true which are commonly received and delivered down to us with almost an unanimous consent of the persons who had greater advantages of knowing the certainty of such things , then we can have at this great distance of time . and therefore certainly every petty conjecture of some modern though learned men , ought not to bear sway against so unanimous a tradition in a matter of fact , which cannot be capable of being proved but by the testimony of former ages . and it is somewhat strange that the single testimony of one hermippus in diogenes laertius ( whose age and authority is somewhat doubtful ) concerning only one particular referring to demetrius phalcrous , should be thought of force enough among persons of judgement as well as learning , to infringe the credibility of the whole story delivered with so much consent , not only by christian , but iewish writers ; the testimony of one of which ( every whit as considerable as hermippus ) viz. aristobulus iudaeus a peripatetical philosopher in an epistle to ptolomy philometor doth plainly assert that which was so much questioned , concerning demetrius phalereus . but whatever the truth of all the particular circumstances be , which i here enquire not after , nor the authority of that aristeus from whom the story is received , nor whether this translation was made by iews sent out of iudea , or by iews residing at alexandria , it sufficeth for our purpose that this translation was made before either the chaldaean dynasties of b●rosus , or the aegyptian of manetho were published to the world. in order to which it is necessary to shew in what time this translation was effected ; and herein that channel of tradition which conveyes the truth of the thing in one certain course , runs not with so even a stream concerning the exact time of it ; all indeed agree that it was about the time of ptolomaeus philadelphus , but in what years of his raign , is very dubious . ioseph scaliger who hath troubled the waters so much concerning the particular circumstances of this translation , yet fully agrees that it was done in the time of ptolomaeus philadelphus ; only he contends with africanus that it should be done in the . olympiad which is in the . year of ptolomaeus philadelphus ; but eusebius and ierom place it in the very beginning of his raign , which i think is far more probable , and that in the time when ptolomaeus philadelphus raigned with his father ptolomaeus lagi : for so it is most certain he did for two years before his fathers death . by which means the great difficulty of scaliger concerning demetrius phalereus is quite taken off ; for hermippus speaks nothing of demetrius his being out of favour with philadelphus , during his fathers life , but that upon his fathers death , he was banished by him , and dyed in his banishment ; so that demetrius might have the oversight of the library at alexandria and be the main instrument of promoting this translation , and yet those things be after true which hermippus speaks , viz. when ptolomaeus lagi or soter was now dead . for it stands not to reason that during his fathers life philadelphus should discover his displeasure against demetrius , it being conceived upon the advice given to his father for preserring the sons of arsinoe to the crown before the son of berenice . most likely therefore it is that this translation might be begun by the means of demetrius phalereus in the time of philadelphus his raigning with his father , but it may be not finished till after the death of soter when philadelphus raigned alone . and by this now we can perfectly reconcile that difference which is among the fathers concerning the time when this translation was made . for irenaeus attributes it to the time of ptolomaeus lagi . clemens alexandrinus questions whether in the time of lagi or philadelphus ; the rest of the chorus carry it for philadelphus ; but the words of anatolius in eusebius cast it fully for both ; for there speaking of aristobulus , he saith he was one of the seventy who interpreted the scriptures to ptolomaeus philadelphus and his father , and dedicated his commentaries upon the law to both those kings . haec sane omnem scrupulum eximunt , saith vossius upon producing this testimony , this puts it out of all doubt ; and to the same purpose speaks the learned iesuite petavius in his notes on epiphanius . having thus far cleared the time when the translation of the scriptures into greck was made , we shall find our conjecture much strengthened , by comparing this with the age of the fore-mentioned historians , manetho and berosus . manetho we have already made appear to have lived in the time of ptolomaeus philadelphus , and that , saith vossius , after the death of soter . it is evident from what remains of him in eusebius his chronica , that he not only flourished in the time of philadelphus , but writ his history at the special command of philadelphus , as manifestly appears by the remaining epistle of manetho to him , still extant in eusebius . this command of philadelphus might very probably be occasioned upon the view of that account , which the holy scriptures , being then translated into greek , did give of the world , and the propagation of mankind ; upon which , we cannot imagine but so inquisitive a person as philadelphus was , would be very earnest to have his curiosity satisfied , as to what the aegyptian priests ( who had boasted so much of antiquity ) could produce to confront with the scriptures . whereupon the task was undertaken by this manetho , high-priest of heliopolis , whereby those things which the aegyptian priests had to that time kept secret in their cloysters , were now divulged and exposed to the judgement of the learned world ; but what satisfaction they were able to give inquisitive minds , as to the main 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or matter enquired after , may partly appear by what hath been said of manetho already , and by what shall be spoken of his dynastyes afterwards . but all this will not perswade kircher ; for , whatever scaliger , nay , what manetho himself says to the coutrary , he , with the confidence and learning of a iesuite , affirms , that this manetho is elder then alexander the great . for these are his words , frequens apud priscos historicos dynaestiarum aegyptiacarum fit mentio , quarum tamen alium authorem non habemus nisi manethonem sebennytam , sacerdotem aegyptium , quem ante tempor a alexandri , quicquid dicat scaliger , in aegypto floruisse comperio . certainly some more then ordinary evidence may be expected after so confident an affirmation ; but whatever that person be in other undertakings , he is as unhappy a person in philology , as any that have pretended so much acquaintance with it . one would think , he that had been twenty years , as he tells us himself , courting the aegyptian mysteries for compassing his oedipus , should have found some better arguments to prove an assertion of this nature , then meerly the testimony of iosephus , the hebrew book iuchasin , and some arabick writers , not one of all which do mention the thing they are brought for , viz. that manetho was elder then alexander . all the business is , they quote him as an ancient writer ; but what then ? the author of the book iuchasim was abraham zacuth a iew of salamancha , who writ in the year of our lord . and this book was first printed at constantinople , . might not this man then well mention manetho as an ancient writer , if he flourished above years before him , in the time of ptolomaeus philadelphus ? and what if some arabick writers mention him ? are they of so great antiquity and credit themselves , that it is an evidence manetho lived in alexanders time to be praised by them ? it would be well if kircber , and other learned men , who think the world is grown to so great stupidity , as to believe every thing to be a iewel which is far fetched , would first assert and vindicate the antiquity and fidelity of their arabick authors , such as gelaldinus , abenephi , and many others , before they expect we should part with our more authentick records of history for those fabulous relations which they are so full fraught withall . were it here any part of my present business , it were an easie matter so to lay open the ignorance , falsity , and fabulousness of those arabians whom that author relies so much upon , that he could not be freed from a design to impose upon the world , who makes use of their testimony in matters of ancient times without a caveat . i know none fit to believe these arabick writers as to these things , but those who have faith enough to concoct the rabbins in matter of history . of whom origen saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . who are , as grotius truly saith , pessimi historiae magistri ; nam ex quo patria expulsi sunt , omnis apud illos historia crassis erroribus & fabulis est inquinata , quibus & proinde nihil credendum est , nisi aliunde testes accederunt . and as is. caubason passeth this sharp , but due censure upon them , rabbinis ubi de lingna hebraica agitur & vocis alicujus proprietate , vel aliquo talmudico instituto , meritò à christianis tribui non parum ; nbi verò à verbis venitur ad res , aut ad historiam , vel rerum antiquarum veteris populi explicationem , nisi falli & decipi volumus , nihil admodum esse illis fidei habendum . sexcentis argumentis hoc facilè probarem si id nunc agerem . and in reference to their ancient rites as well as history , ioseph scaliger hath given this verdict of them , manifesta est iudaeorum inscitia , qui cum usu veterum rituum , etiam corum cognitionem amiserunt , & multa quae ad eorum sacra & historiam pertinent , longè meliùs nos teneamus quam ipsi . the same which these very learned persons say of rabbinical , may with as much truth be said of these arabick writers , in matters of ancient history , which i have here inserted , to shew the reason why i have thought the testimony of either of these two sorts of persons so inconsiderable in the matter of our future discourse ; which being historical , and that of the greatest antiquity , little relief is to be expected from either of them in order thereto . but to return to kircher . it is freely granted that iosephus , an author of credit and age , sufficient to give his opinion in this case , doth very frequently cite manetho in his aegyptian history ; particularly in his learned books against appion ; but where he doth give the least intimation of manetho being elder then alexander , i am yet to seek . but kircher will not yet leave the matter so , but undertakes to give an account of the mistake ; which is , that there were two manetho's besides , and both aegyptians , mentioned by suidas ; one a mendesian , who writ of the preparation of the aegyptian 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a kind of perfume used by the aegyptian priests . the other a diospolitan , who writ some physiological and astronomical treatises , whose works he hears are preserved in the duke of florenee his librarie ; and this was he ( saith he ) who lived in the times of augustus , whom many by the aequivocation of the name have confounded with the ancient writer of the aegyptian dynastyes . is it possible so learned a iesuite should discover so little judgement in so few words ? for first , who ever asserted the writer of the dynastyes to have lived in the time of augustus ? yet secondly , if that manetho whom suidas there speaks of , lived in augustus his time , according to kircher , then it must necessarily follow , that the compiler of the dynastyes did : for it is evident to any one that looks into suidas , that he there speaks of the same manetho ; for these are his words : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. can any thing be more plain then that he here speaks of manetho sebennyta , who was the author of the dynastyes , though he might write other things besides , of which suidas there speaks ? but kircher very wisely , in translating suidas his words , leaves out 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which decides the controversie , and makes it clear that he speaks of the same manetho , of whom we have been discoursing . thus it still appears that this manetho is no elder then the time of ptolomy philadelphus , which was the thing to be proved . now for berosus , although the chaldeans had occasion enough given them before this time , to produce their antiquities by the iews converse with them in babylon ; yet we find this author the first who durst adventure them abroad , such as they were , in greek . now that this berosus published his history after the time mentioned , i thus prove . tatianus assyrius tells us that he writ the chaldaick history in three books , and dedicated them to antiochus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as it is read in the fragment of tatianus preserved in eusebius ; but it must be acknowledged that in the paris edition of tatianus , as well as the basil , it is thus read , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , here it relates to the third from alexander , in the other to the third from seleucus ; now if we reckon the third so as to take the person from whom we reckon in , for the first , according to the reading in eusebius , it falls to be antiochus called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 according to the other reading it falls to be antiochus soter ; for seleucus succeeded alexander in the kingdom of syria ; antiochus soter , seleucus ; antiochus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , antiochus soter . but according to either of these readings , our purpose is sufficiently proved . for antiochus soter began to reign in syria in the sixth year of ptol. philadelphus in aegypt ; antiochus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 succeeded him , in the . year of philadelphus ; now the soonest that the history of berosus could come forth , must be in the reign of antiochus soter , which according to our accounts is some competent time after the translation of the scripture into greek ; but if it were not till the time of antiochus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we cannot but imagine that the report of the account of antient times in the scriptures was sufficiently divulged before the publishing of this history of berosus ; and it may be berosus might somewhat sooner then others understand all transactions at alexandria , because the place of his chief residence , was where ptolomy philadelphus was born , which was in the isle of co. but vossius goes another way to work to prove the time of berosus , which is this . he quotes it out of pliny that berosus recorded the history of . years , which , saith he , must be reckoned from the aera of nabonasser . now this began in the second year of the . olympiad , from which time if we reckon . years , it falls upon the latter end of antiochus soter ; and so his history could not come out before the . of ptol. philadelphus , or very little before . thus we have made it evident , that these two great historians are younger even then the translation of the bible into greck , by which it appears probable that they were provoked to publish their fabulous dynasties to the world . and so much to shew the insufficiency of the chaldean history , as to the account of antient times : which we shall conclude with the censure of strabo a grave and judicious author concerning the antiquities of the persians , medes , and syrians , which , saith he , have not obtained any great credit in the world , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because of the simplicity and fabulousness of their historians . from hence we see then that there is no great credibility in those histories which are impeached of falshood by the most grave and judicious of heathen writers . chap. iv. the defect of the graecian history . that manifested by three evident arguments of it . . the fabulousness of the poëtical age of greece . the antiquity of poetry . of orpheus and the antient poets . whence the poëtical fables borrowed . the advancement of poetry and idolatry together in greece . the different censures of strabo and eratosthenes concerning the poëtical age of greece , and the reasons of them . . the eldest historians of greece are of suspected credit . of damastes , aristeus , and others ; of most of their eldest historians we have nothing left but their names , of others only the subjects they treated of , and some fragments . those that are extant either confess their ignorance of eldest times , or plainly discover it . of the first sort are thucydides and plutarch : several evidences of the graecians ignorance of the true original of nations . of herodotus and his mistakes , the greeks ignorance in geography discovered , and thence their insufficiency as to an account of antient history . descend we now to the history of greece ; to see whether the metropolis of arts and learning can afford us any account of antient times , that may be able to make us in the least question the account given of them in sacred scriptures . we have already manifested the defect of greece as to letters and antient records , but yet it may be pretended that her historians by the excellency of their wits and searching abroad into other nations , might find a more certain account of antient times , then other nations could obtain . there is no body , who is any thing acquainted with the graecian humour , but will say they were beholding to their wits for most of their histories ; they being some of the earlyest writers of romances in the world , if all fabulous narrations may bear that name . but laying aside at present all their poetick mythology , as it concerns their gods , ( which we may have occasion to enquire into afterwards ) we now examine only their credibility , where they pretend to be most historical . yet how far they are from meriting belief even in these things , will appear to any that shall consider ; first , that their most antient writers were poetical and apparently fabulous . secondly , that their eldest historians are of suspected credit even among themselves . thirdly , that their best historians either discover or confess abundance of ignorance as to the history of antient times . first , that their first writers were poetical , and apparetnly fabulous : strabo undertakes to prove that prose is only an imitation of poetry , and so poetry must needs be first written . for , saith he , at first poetry was only in request , afterwards in imitation of that , cadmus , pherecydes and hecataeus writ their histories , observing all other laws of poetry , but only the measures of it ; but by degrees writers began to take greater liberty , and so brought it down from that lofty strain it was then in , to the form now in use : as the comical strain is nothing else but a depressing the sublimer style of tragidies . this he proves because 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 did antiently signifie the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; for poems were only 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , lessons fit to be sung among them ; thence , saith he , is the original of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. for these were those poëms which were sung 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when they held a branch of laurel in their hands , as plutarch tells us they were wont to do homers iliads , there were sung to the harp as hesiods 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : besides , saith strabo , that prose is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 argues that it is only a bringing down of the higher strain in use before . but however this were in general , as to the graecians , it is evident that poetry was first in use among them ; for in their elder times when they first began to creep out of barbarism , all the philosophie and instruction they had , was from their poets , and was all couched in verse ; which plutarch not only confirms , but particularly instanceth in orpheus , he siod , parmenides , xenophanes , empedocles and thales ; and hence horace de arte poetica of the antient poets before homer , — fuit haec sapientia quondam publica privatis secernere , sacra profanis : concubitu prohibere vago : dare jura marit is : oppida moliri : leges incidere ligno . sic honor & nomen divinis vatibus at que carminibus venit . from hence as heinsius observes , the poets were antiently called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and the antient speeches of the philosophers containing matters of morality were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of which many are mentioned in their lives by diogenes laertius ; in the same sense were carmena antiently used among the latines for precepts of morality , as in that collection of them , which goes under the name of cato , ( which some think to be an antient piece , but with a false inscription , but boxhornius thinks it to be of some christians doing in the decay of the roman empire ) si deus est ●nimus , nobis ut carmina dicunt . carmina , saith heinsius , i. e. dicta philosophorum ; causa est , quia dictailla brevia , quibus sententias suas de deo deque reliquis includebant , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dieebant , i. e. carmina . when poetry came first into request among the graecians , is somewhat uncertain ; but this is plain and evident that the intention of it was not meerly for instruction , but as strabo expresseth it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the more gently to draw the people on to idolatry . for as he saith , it is impossible to perswade women and the promiscuous multitude to religion by meer dry reason or philosophy , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; but for this , saith he , there is need of superstition , and this cannot be advanced without some fables and wonders . for , saith he , the thunderbolt , shields , tridents , serpents , spears attributed to the gods are meer fables , and so is all the antient theology ; but the governours of the common-wealth made use of these things , the better to awe the silly multitude and to bring them into better order . i cannot tell how far this might be their end , since these things were not brought in so much by the several magistrates , as by the endeavours of particular men , who thought to raise up their own esteem among the vulgar by such things , and were imployed by the great deceiver of the world as his grand instruments to advance idolatry in it . for which we are to consider , that although there were gross ignorance , and consequently superstition enough in greece before the poetick age of it , yet their superstitions and idolatrous worship was not so licked and brought into form , as about the time of orpheus , from whom the poetick age commenceth : who was as great an instrument of setting up idolatry , as apollonius was afterwards of restoring it , being both persons of the highest esteem and veneration among the heathen . much about the same time did those live in the world who were the first great promoters of superstition and poetry , as melampus , musaeus , arion , methymnaeus , amphion of thebes , and eumolpus thrax , none of whom were very far distant from the time of orpheus . of whom clemens alexandrinus thus speaks , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . these under a pretence of musick and poetry corrupting the lives of men , did by a kind of artificial magick draw them on to the practice of idolatry . for the novelty and pleasingness of musick and poetry did presently insinuate its self into the minds of men , and thereby drew them to a venerable esteem both of the persons and practises of those who were the authors of them . so conon in photius tells us that orpheus was exceedingly acceptable to the people for his skill in musick , which the thracians and macedonians were much delighted with : from which arose the fable of his drawing trees and wild beasts after him , because his musick had so great an influence upon the civilizing that people , who were almost grown rude through ignorance and barbarism : and so horace explains it , sylvestres homines sacer , interpresque d●orum , caedibus & victu foedo deterruit o●pheus , dictus ob hoc lenire tigres rapidosque leones . this orpheus by mythologists is usually called the son of calliope , but may with better reason be called the father of the whole chorus of the muses , then the son of one of them , since pindar calls him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and iohn tz●●zes tells us he was called the son of calliope 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as the inventer of poetical elegancy , and the sacred hymns which were made to the gods . ( which the old romans called assamenta ) ; and iustin martyr calls him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the first teacher of polytheism and idolatry . for this orpheus having been in aegypt , as pausanias , diodorus , and artapanus in eusebius all confess , he brought from thence most of the magical rites and superstitious customs in use there , and set them up among the graecians ; so diodorus acknowledgeth in the same place ; and is likewise evident by what aristophanes saith in his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . orpheus first instructed them in the sacred mysteries , and to abstain from slaughter : which is to be understood of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the killing of beasts in sacrifice , which probably was in use among them before as a remainder of antient tradition , till orpheus brought his aegyptian doctrine into request among them . the mysteries of osiris , saith diodorus , were transplanted into greece under the name of dionyfius or bacchus , and isis under ceres or magna mater , and the punishment and pleasures after this life from the rites of sepulture among them ; charons wasting of souls from the lake acherusia in aegypt , over which they were wont to send the dead bodies . pausanias tells us that the spartans derived the worship of ceres cthonia from orpheus , and the aeginatae the worship of hecate . besides which he instituted new rites and mysteries of his own , in which the initiated were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and required a most solemn oath from all of them never to divulge them , which was after observed in all those prophane mysteries which in imitation of these were set up among the greeks . strabo thinks the mysteries of orpheus were in imitation of the old cotyttian and benedidian mysteries among the thracians ; but herodotus with more probability parallels them and the dionysian with the aegyptian , from which we have already seen that orpheus derived his ; who is conceived by georgius cedrenus and timothaeus in eusebius , to have lived about the time of gideon the judge of israel ; but there is too great confusion concerning his age , to define any thing certainly about it . which ariseth most from the several persons going under his name , of which besides this were in all probability two more ; the one an heroick poet , called by suidas ciconaeus , or arcas , who lived two ages before homer , and he that goes under the name of orpheus , whose hymns are still extant , but are truly ascribed to onomacritus the athenian , by clemens alexandrinus , tatianus , assyrius , suidas , and others , who flourished in the times of the pisistradidae at athens . we are like then to have little relief for finding out of truth in the poetick age of greece , when the main design of the learning then used was only to insinuate the belief of fables into the people , and by that to awe them into idolatry . if we come lower down to the succeeding poets , we may find fables increasing still in the times of homer , hesiod , and the rest , which made eratosthenes , a person of great iudgement and learning ( whence he was called alter plato , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because he carried , if not the first , yet the second place in all kind of literature ) condemn the ancient poetry as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a company of old wives tales , which were invented for nothing but to please silly people , and had no real learning or truth at all in them . for this , though he be sharply censured by strabo in his first book , who undertakes to vindicate the geography of homer from the exceptions of eratosthenes ; yet himself cannot but confess that there is a ●very great mixture of fables in all their poets , which is , saith he , partly to delight the people , and partly to awe them . for the minds of men being always desirous of novelties , such things do hugely please the natural humours of weak people , especially if there be something in them that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , very strange and wonderful , it increaseth the delight in hearing it ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which draws them on to a desire of hearing more of it . and by this means , saith he . are children first brought on to learning , and all ignorant persons are kept in awe ; nay , and the more learned themselves ( partly for want of reason and judgement , and partly from the remainder of those impressions which these things made upon them when they were children ) cannot shake off that former credulity which they had as to these things . by which discourse of strabo , though intended wholly by him in vindication of poetick fables , it is plain and evident what great disservice hath been done to truth by them , by reason they had no other records to preserve their ancient history but these fabulous writers , and therefore supposing a mixture of truth and falshood together , which strabo contends for ; yet what way should be taken to distinguish the true from the false , when they had no other certain records ? and besides , he himself acknowledgeth how hard a matter it is even for wise men to excuss those fabulous narrations out of their minds , which were insinuated into them by all the advantages which prejudice , custome , and education could work upon them . granting then there may be some truth at the bottom of their fabulous narrations ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . which may be gilded over with some pleasing tales , as himself compares it ; yet how shall those come to know that it is only gilded , that never saw any pure mettal , and did always believe that it was what it seemed to be . had there been any 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or touchstone to have differenced between the one and the other , there might have been some way for a separation of them ; but there being none such , we must conclude , that the fabulous narrations of poets in stead of making truth more pleasant by their fictions , have so adulterated it , that we cannot find any credibility at all in their narrations of elder times , where the truth of the story hath had no other way of conveyance but through their fictions . but though poets may be allowed their liberty for representing things with the greatest advantage to the palats of their readers , yet we may justly expect , when men profess to be historical , they should deliver us nothing but what upon strictest examination may prove undoubted truth . yet even this were the greeks far from ; for strabo himself confesseth of their eldest historians , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , their first historians both of persens and things were fabulous . diodorus particularly instanceth in their eldest historians , as cadmus , milesius , hecataeus , and hellanicus , and condemns them for fabulousness . strabo condemns damastes sigeensis for vanity and falshood , and wonders at eratosthenes for making use of him ; yet this man is of great antiquity among them , and his testimony used by authors of good credit , as dionys . halycarnassius , plutarch , and others . nay pliny professeth to follow him , and so he doth aristeus procennesius , in his arimaspia , which may render the credit of his history very suspicious ; with whom it was a sufficient ground of credibility to any story , that he found it in some greek authors . strabo reckons damastes with euëmerus messenius and antiphanes bergeus ; which latter was so noted a lyar , that from him , as stephanus tells us , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was used as a proverb for to speak never a word of truth . aristeus proconnesius lived in the time of cyrus , and writ a history of the arimaspi in three books , who seems to have been the sir iohn maridevil of greece , from his stories of the arimaspi , with one eye in their foreheads , and their continual fighting with the gryphens for gold ; yet the story was taken upon trust by herodotus , pliny , and many others , though the experience of all who have visited those northern climats , do sufficiently refute these follies . strabo saith of this aristeus , that he was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , one inferiour to none for juggling , which cenfure was probably occasioned by the common story of him , that he could let his soul out of his body when he pleased , and bring it again ; yet this juggler did celsus pitch on to confront with our blessed saviour , as herocles did on apollinus ; so much have those been to seek for reason , who have fought to oppose the doctrine of faith . but further , what credit can we give to those historians who have striven to confute each other , and lay open one anothers falshood to the world . where was there ever any such dissonancy in the sacred history of scripture ? doth the writer of one book discover the weakness of another ? do not all the parts so exactly agree , that the most probable suspicion could ever fall into the heart of an infidel is , that they were all written by the same person , which yet the series of times manifests to have been impossible . but now if we look into the ancient greek historians , we need no other testimony then themselves to take away their credibility . the genealogies of hesiod are corrected by acusiddus , acusiddus is condemned by hellanicus , hellanicus accused of falshood by ephorus , ephorus by timaeus , timaeus by such who followed him , as iosephus fully shews . where must we then fix our belief ? upon all in common ? that is the ready way to believe contradictions ; for they condemn one another of falshood . must we believe one , and reject the rest ? but what evidence doth that one give why he should be credited more then the rest ? and , which is a most irrefragable argument against the graecian history , their eldest historians are ackowledged to be the most fabulous ; for our only recourse for deciding the controversies among the younger historians , must be to the elder : and here we are further to seek then ever ; for the first ages are confessed to be poetical , and to have no certainty of truth in them . so that it is impossible to find out any undoubted certainty of ancient times among the greek historians ; which will be yet more evident when we add this , that there are very few extant of those historians , who did carry the greatest name for antiquity . the highest antiquity of the greek historians doth not much exceed the time of cyrus and cambyses , as vossius hath fully demonstrated in his learned book de histori●is graecis , and therefore i shall spare particular enquiries into their several ages . only these two things will further clear the insufficiency of the greek history , as to an account of ancient times : first , that of many of these old historians we have nothing left but their meer names without any certainty of what they treated . such are sisyphus cous , corinnus , eugeon samius , deiochus proconnesius , eudemus parius , democles phygaleus , amelesagoras chalcedonius , xenomedes chius , and several others whose names are recorded by several writers , and listed by vossius among the historians , but no evidence what subject of history was handled by them . secondly , that of those whose not only memories are preserved , but some evidence of what they writ , we have nothing extant till the time of the persian war. for all that was writ before , is now consumed by time , and swallowed up in that vast and all-devouring gulf ; in which yet their heads still appear above the waters , to tell us what once they informed the world of . it cannot be denyed , but if many of those antient histories were yet remaining , we might probably have some greater light into some matters of fact in the elder times of greece , which now we are wholly to seek for , unless we think to quench our thirst in the muddy waters of some fabulous poets . for what is now become of the antiquities of ionia and the city miletus written by cadmus miletius , supposed to be the first writer of history ? where lye the genealogies of acusilaus argivus ? where is now extant the history of the gods writter by pherecydes scyrus pythagoras his master ? or the chronica of archilochus who flourished about the . olympiad ? or those of theagenes rheginus ? where may we hope to meet with pherecydes lerius his attick antiquities , or his catalogue of cities and nations ? or hecataeus his description of asia , and some suppose of libya and europe too ? or the originals of nations and founders of cities written by hellanicus ? how may we come by the persick , greek and aegyptian history of charon lampsacenus , the lydian history of xanthus lydius ; the samian antiquities of simmias rhodius ; the corinthian history of eumelus corinthius ; panyasis his antiquities of greece ; the scythian history of anacharsis ; the phrygian of diagoras ; the chaldaick and persian of democritus ; the sicilian and italian of hippys rh●ginus ; the telchiniack history of teleclides ? all these are now buried with many more in the rubbish of time , and we have nothing but the meer sceletons of them left , to tell us that once such persons were , and thought themselves concerned to give the world some account of their being in it . whereby may be likewise seen the remarkable providence of god concerning the sacred history , which though of far greater antiquity then any of these , hath survived them all , and is still preserved with as much purity and incorruption as a book passing through so many hands was capable of . but of that in its due place . but yet if the greek historians that are yet extant , were of more undoubted credit then those that are lost , we might easily bear with our losing some old stories , if we gained some authentick history by it accomplished in all its parts : but even this we are far from in the greek history ; for the historians themselves do either confess their own ignorance of antient times , or do most palpably discover it , which was the third and last consideration touching the credibility of the graecian history . that most grave and accurate historian thucydides , then whom scarce ever any grecian discovered more an inpartial love to the truth in what he writ , doth not only confess but largely prove the impossibility of an exact account to be given of the times preceding the pelopponesian war , in the very entrance into his history : for saith he , the matter preceding that time , cannot now through the length of time be accurately discovered or sound out by us . all that he could find in the ancient state of greece was a great deal of confusion , unquiet stations , frequent removals , continual pyracyes and no setled form of commonwealth . what certain account can be then expected of those times , when a most judicious writer , even of athens its self , acknowledgeth such a chaos in their antient history ! and plutarch a later author indeed , but scarce behind any of them , if we believe taurus in a. gellius for learning and prudence , dares not we see venture any further back then the time of theseus ; for before that time , as he compares it , as geographers in their maps when they have gone as far as they can , fill up the empty space with some unpassable mountains , or frozen seas , or devouring sands ; so those who give an account of elder times are fain to insert 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , some wonderfull and tragical stories which as he saith , have neither any truth nor certainty in them . thus we see those who were best able to judge of the greek antiquities , can find no sure footing to stand on in them ; and what basis can we finde for our faith where they could finde so little for their knowledge ? and those who have been more daring and venturous then these persons mentioned , what a labyrinth have they run themselves into , how many confusions and contradictions have they involved themselves in ? sometimes writing the passages of other countries for those of greece , and at other times so confounding times , persons and places , that one might think they had only a design upon the understandings of their readers , to make them play at blind-mans-buff in searching for the kings of greece . but as they are so confused in their own history , so they are as ignorant and fabulous when they dare venture over their own thresholds and look abroad into other countries ; we certainly owe a great part of the lamentable ignorance of the true original of most nations to the pittiful account the greek authors have given of them ; which have had the fortune to be entertained in the world with so much esteem and veneration , that it hath been thought learning enough to be acquainted with the account which they give of nations . which i doubt not hath been the great reason so many fabulous relations not only of nations but persons and several animals never existing in the world , have met with so much entertainment from the less inquisitive world . the greek writers it is evident , took up things upon trust as much as any people in the world did , being a very weak and inconsiderable nation at first , and afterwards the knowledge they had was generally borrowed from other nations which the wise men only suited to the temper of the greeks , and so made it more fabulous then it was before . as it was certainly the great defect of the natural philosophy of the greeks , ( as it hath been ever since in the world ) that they were so ready to form theoryes upon some principles or hypotheses which they only received by tradition from others , without fetching their knowledge from the experiments of nature ; and to these they suited all the phenomena of nature ; and what was not suitable was rejected as monstrous and anomalous : so it was in their history wherein they had some fabulous hypotheses they took for granted without enquiring into the truth and certainty of them , and to these they suit whatever light they gained in after times of the state of forreign nations , which hath made truth and antiquity wrestle so much with the corruptions which eat into them through the pride and ignorance of the greeks . hence they have alwayes suited the history of other nations with the account they give of their own ; and where nothing could serve out of their own history to give an account of the original of other nations , they ( who were never backward at fictions ) have made a founder of them suitable to their own language . the truth is , there is nothing in the world useful or beneficial to mankind , but they have made shift to finde the author of it among themselves . if we enquire after the original of agriculture , we are told of ceres and triptolemus ; if of pasturage , we are told of an arcadian pan ; if of wine , we presently hear of a liber pater ; if of iron instruments , then who but vulcan ? if of musick , none like to apollo . if we press them then with the history of other nations , they are as well provided here : if we enquire an account of europe , asia or lybia ; for the first we are told a fine story of cadmus his sister , for the second of prometh●us his mother of that name , and for the third of a daughter of epaphus . if we are yet so curious as to know the original of particular countries ; then italia must finde its name from a calfe of hercules , because 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in greek will signifie some such thing ; sardinia and africa must be from sardos and afer two sons of hercules ; but yet if these will not serve , hercules shall not want for children to people the world ; for we hear of scythes , galatas , lydus , some other sons of his , that gave names to scythia , lydia , galatia ; with the same probability that media had its name from medea , and spain and lusitania from pan and lusus two companione of bacchus . if persia want a founder , they have one perseus an argive ready for it ; if syria , babylonia and arabia want reasons of their names , the prodigal greeks will give apollo three sons , syrus , babylon and arabs rather then they shall be heretical acephalists . this vanity of theirs was universal , not confined to any place or age , but as any nation or people came into their knowledge , their gods were not so decrepit , but they might father one son more upon them rather then any nation should be filia populi , and want a father . only the grave athenians thought scorn to have any father assigned them ; their only ambition was to be accounted aborigines & genuini terrae to be the eldest sons of their teeming mother the earth , and to have been born by the same aequivocal generation that mice and frogs are from the impregnated slime of the earth . are we not like to have a wonderfull account of antient times from those who could arrogate to themselves so much knowledge from such slender and thin accounts of the originals of people which they gave , and would have the world to entertain with the greatest veneration upon their naked words ? have we not indeed great reason to hearken to those who did so frequently discover their affection to fables , and manifest their ignorance when ever they venture upon the history of other nations . the truth is , herodotus himself ( whom tully calls the father of history , which title he deserves at least in regard of antiquity , being the eldest of the extant greek historians ) hath stood in need of his compurgators , who yet have not been able to acquit him of fabulousness , but have sought to make good his credit by recrimination , or by making it appear that herodotus did not fully believe the stories he tells , but took them upon trust himself and so delivers them to the world . some impute it to the ingenuity of herodotus , that he calls his books of history by the name of the muses on purpose to tell his readers they must not look for meer history in him , but a mixture of such relations which though not true , might yet please and entertain his readers . though others think they were not so inscribed by himself , but the names were given to them by the greeks from the admiration his history had among them . however this were , this we are certain , that herodotus was not first suspected of falshood in these latter ages of the world , but even among the greeks themselves there have been found some that would undertake to make good that charge against him . for so suidas tells us of one harpocration aelius , who writ a book on purpose to discover the falshood of herodotus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . plutarch his books are well known of the spight or malignity of herodotus , but the occasion of that is sufficiently known likewise , because herodotus had given no very favourable character of plutarchs country . strabo likewise seems to accuse herodotus much of nugacity and mixing prodigious fables with his history , but i confess observing the grounds on which plutarch insists against herodotus , i am very prone to think that the ground of the great pique in some of the greek writers against herodotus , was , that he told too many tales out of school , and had discovered too much of the infancy of greece , and how much the grecians borrowed of the aegyptian superstitions : which plutarch expresly speaks of , that herodotus was too much led aside , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . although therefore herodotus may not be much too blame in the things which the graecians most charge him with , yet those who favour him most cannot excuse his palpable mistakes in some things , and ignorance in others . iosephus thinks he was deceived by the aegyptian priests in things relating to the state of their affairs ; of which ios. scaliger gives many accounts ; either , saith he , the persons who gave him his intelligence were ignorant themselves ; or else like true egyptians they were cunning enough , but imposed upon herodotus being a stranger and unacquainted with their artifices ; or else he did not understand his interpreter , or was deceived by him ; or lastly , herodotus might have so much of a grecian in him , as to adulterate the true history with some fables of his own ; wherefore he rather adheres to manetho then herodotus as to the aegyptian history : who yet elsewhere ( i will not say with what constancy to himself ) vouchsafes him this high elogium , that he is scrinium originum graecarum & barbararum , auctor à doctis nunquam deponendus . it cannot be denyed but a great deal of very useful history may be fetched out of him ; yet who can excuse his ignorance , when he not only denyes there is an ocean compassing the land , but condemns the geographers for asserting it ? unless this might be any plea for his ignorance in geography , that he had so many great names after him guilty of the same : witness aristotles suspition that the indies should be joyned to europe about the straights , where they fained hercules his pillars to be . and the tberaeans ignorance where any such place as libya was , when the oracle bid them plant a colony there . would it not have been worth ones while to have heard the great noise the sun used to make every night when he doused his head in the ocean , as none of the most ignorant greeks imagined ? and to have seen the sun about hercules his pillars to be a hundred times bigger then he appeared to them , as they commonly fancyed . was not alexander , think we , well tutored in cosmography by his master aristotle , when he writ word to his mother he had found out the head of nilus in the east indies ? as arrian relates the story . no wonder then his souldiers should mistake the mountain paropamisus in the indies , for caucasus near colchis , when even their learned men thought colchis the utmost boundary of the world on that side , as hercules his pillars on this . what a lamentable account then were they able to give of the most antient times , who were so ignorant of the state of the world in their own time , when learning was in its height in greece , and frequent discoveries daily made of the world , by the wars which were made abroad ! eratosthencs confesseth the graecians were ignorant of a great part of asia and the northern parts of europe before alexanders expedition ; and strabo confesseth as much of the western parts of europe till the roman expeditions thither . palus meot is and colchis , faith he , were not fully known till the time of mithridates , nor hyrcania , bactriana , and scythia , till the parthian wars . eratosthenes mentions some who thought the arabian sea to be only a lake , and it further argues their ignorance in geography , that the later geographers alwayes correct the errours of the elder , as ptolomy doth marinus , eratosthenes those before him , hipparchus eratosthenes , and strabo not only both them , but eudoxus , ephorus , dicaearchus , polybius , posidonius , and almost all that had writ before him . i insist on these things , not that i would destroy the credibility of any humane history , where the authors are guilty of any mistakes ( for that were to take away the credit of all humane history ) but to shew how insufficient those histories are to give us a certain account of the original of nations , who were so unacquainted with the state of those nations which they pretended to give an account of . for where there is wanting divine revelation ( which was not pretended by any greek historians ; and if it had , had been easily refuted ) there must be supposed a full and exact knowledge of all things pertaining to that which they pretend to give an account of ; and if they discover apparent defect and insufficiency ( which hath been largely manifested as to them , in the precedent discourse ) we have ground to deny the credibility of those histories upon the account of such defect and insufficiency . so much then will abundantly suffice for the making good the first argument against the credibility of prophane histories , as to the account which they give of antient times , different from the word of god. chap. v. the general uncertainty of heathen chronology . the want of credibility in heathen history further proved from the uncertainty and confusion in their acco●●ts of antient times ; that discovered by the uncertain form of their years . an enquiry into the different forms of the aegyptian years ; the first of thirty dayes , the second of four moneths ; of both instances given in the aegyptian history . of the chaldaean accounts , and the first dynastyes mentioned by berosus , how they may be reduced to probability . of the aegyptian dynastyes . of manetho . reasons of accounting them fabulous , because not attested by any credible authority , and rejected by the best historians . the opinion of scaliger and vossius , concerning their being cotemporary , propounded and rejected with reasons against it . of the antient division of aegypt into nomi or provinces , and the number of them against vossius and kircher . the next thing to manifest how little there is of credibility in the account of antient times , reported by the histories of heathen nations , is , the uncertainty , confusion and ambiguity in the account which they give of those times . if we suppose them not at all defective as to their records , if yet we find the account given so perplexed , ambiguous , and confused , that we can find no certainty at all of the meaning of it , we have very little reason to entertain it with any certain assent unto it . now this will be made evident by these things . . the uncertainty of their chronology , whereon their whole account depends . . the multitude of impostures taken for antient histories . . the uncertain meaning of those characters wherein their antient histories were preserved . i begin with the great uncertainty of the heathen chronology , which will be manifested by two things ; first the uncertain form of their years : secondly the want or uncertainty of their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or certain fixed epocha's from which to derive their account of antient times . first , the uncertain form of their years ; this of its self is sufficient to destroy the credibility of their accounts of antiquity , if it be manifested that they had different forms of years in use among them ; and it be uncertain to which to referr their accounts they give ; for if years be sometimes lunar , sometimes solar , and sometimes but of thirty dayes , sometimes of four moneths , sometimes of three hundred and sixty dayes , sometimes three hundred sixty five , sometimes four times three hundred sixty five in their tetraeteris , sometimes eight times in their octacteris , sometimes more , what certainty can we possibly have which of them to fix their accounts to . especially when they only give them in general , and never tell us which of them they mean , which may make it shrewdly suspitious that their intent is only to impose on our understandings , and not to deal fairly and truly with us . we shall therefore so much explain the different form of their years , as thereby to shew what uncertainties we are left to by them : where we meddle not with their tropical and astronomical years , but chiefly those which were in civil use among the several nations we speak to . a year is nothing else but a system of dayes , and is therefore capable of as great variety , as dayes are in being joyned together ; but usually there were some other lesser systems of dayes then those which are called years , out of which the other doth result . such is the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or the week which as ioseph scaliger saith , was res omnibus orient is populis ab ultima usque antiquitate usitata ; a thing in continual use among the eastern nations , though it be but of late reception into the parts of europe , and no elder then christianity among them . among the romans was used an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which was for the sake of the nundinae returning every ninth day . the mexicans as scaliger tells us , reckon all by a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a system of thirteen dayes . next to these were their moneths which were either lunar or solar . the lunar were either from the moons return to the same point of the zodiack again , called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which was less then twenty eight dayes ; but this was of no use in civil computations ; or else from one conjunction of the moon with the sun to another , which was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; or else from the first phasis of the moon , the second day after its coitus , called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; some as the graecians reckoned their lunar moneths from the coitus , as scaliger proves out of vitruvius ; others from the phasis , as some eastern nations did ; as the iews began their observation of the new moons from the first phasis or appearance of her after the coitus . the solar moneths were either natural , such as were defined by the suns passage from one sign of the zodiack to another ; or civil , whereby the moneths were equally divided into dayes apiece , as in the graecian and aegyptian year . having thus far seen of what the year consists , we now proceed to shew that the ancient nations did not observe one constant certain form of year among them , but had several in use , to which their accounts may be referred . and because the aegyptians are supposed to have been best skilled as to the form of the year , according to that of macrobius , anni certus modus apud solos semper aegyptios fuit . we shall particularly demonstrate the variety of years in use among them ; by which we shall see what great uncertainty there is in their accounts of their dynastyes . for first it is evident that the time of days was among the ancient aegyptians accounted a year , for which we have the testimony of plutarch in numa . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; the egyptians at first had a year consisting of one moneth , and after of four : and this , if we believe alexander ab alexandro , was the year most frequently in use among them . so varro in lactantius gives an account of the great age of some men in ancient times , who are supposed to have lived years ; ait enim apud aegyptios pro annis menses haberi , ut non solis per signa circaitus faciat annum , sed luna quae orbem illum signiferum dierum spatio illustrat . it is then evident that this year of thirty days was in use among the aegyptians ; the only scruple is whether it was used in their sacred accounts or no ; and that it was , we have a pregnant testimony in plutarch , in the fore-cited place ; speaking of the aegyptians great pretence to antiquity , he gives this account of it ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . they reckon an infinite number of years in their accounts , ●ecause they reckon their moneths in stead of years . according to this computation , it will be no difficult matter to reduce the vast accounts of the aegyptian antiquity to some proportion , and to reconcile their exorbitant dynastyes with sobriety and truth , especially as to the account given of them by diodorus siculus ; for so diodorus gives in their accounts , that the gods and heroes reigned in aegypt for the space of near years , and the last of them was orus the son of isis : from the reign of men in aegypt he reckons about years to the time ( if we admit of iacob . capellus his correction of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in diodorus ) with his entrance into aegypt , which was in the olympiad . now as the foresaid learned author observes , diodorus came into aegypt a. m. . v. c. . the mortal men then had reigned in aegypt years , which taking it for these lunar years of dayes , makes of iulian years . the heroes and gods moneths , that is of iulian years ; from these two summs together are gathered years , which being deducted from the year of the world falls in the year of the world . about which time misraim , who was the great historical o siris of aegypt ( so called by a light variation of his former name ) might be well supposed to be born ; for that was in the year of noah . and so orus might be born , who was the son of osiris , about the year of the world . between whose time and alexander the great his conquest of aegypt , the aegyptians , as the same diodorus tells us , reckon little less then years : now according to this computation of days for a year , we may reconcile this to truth too ; for from to of the world , which falls upon the year of nabonassar , there is an interval of years , which makes of these lunar years of days , saith cappellus , . and days , which comes very near , if not altogether , up to the aegyptian computation : so when the aegyptians according to diodorus , make no less then years distance between their hercules and hercules baeotius , the son of alcmena , it must be understood of these lunar years ; for granting what the aegyptians say , that hercules baeotius lived but one generation before the trojan war , and so his time to fall out about . reckoning now backward from thence , and deducting from that year of the world moneths of days , or iulian years . and days , the time of the aegyptian hercules will fall about the first year of the world , . about which time we may well suppose him to live or die . and according to this computation we are to understand what the aegyptians told herodotus , that from their first king or priest of vulcan , till the time of sethoes ( in whose time sennacherib attempted the conquest of aegypt ) that there had been passed generations , and as many kings and high-priests , and years , reckoning three generations to make up a century . but now , if we understand this prodigious computation according to this form of years , we may suspect the aegyptians of an intention to deceive herodotus and the credulous greeks , but yet not impeach them of direct falshood , it being thus reconcilable to truth . for according to this account years makes days , and a generation . so many days the kings or priests of vulcan may be allowed to reign ; so generations of a days apiece , make up days , to which , if we add the days which sethos had now reigned upon sennacheribs invasion , we have days , which makes up of these years of days apeece , which is the number assigned by herodotus : iacobus cappellus thinks the epocha from whence these years are to be reckoned , is from a. m. . when mephres began to reign in aegypt , from whence , if we number these days , or monethly years , which makes up of iulian years . and days , the number falls a. m. . about which time in probability sennacherib invaded aegypt . thus we see by making use of those lunàr years , that it is possible to reconcile some of the aegyptian extravagant accounts to some probability and consistency with truth ; but however we owe very little thanks to the aegyptians for it , who deliver these things in gross , without telling us which years they mean , and thereby evidence their intent to deceive all who have so little wit as to be deceived by them . the next kind and form of the aegyptian year , was that which consisted of four equal moneths , amounting to days ; the use of this kind of year among them is attested by plutarch in the fore-cited place , and by diodorus , who gives an account of this kind of year among the aegyptians . solinus seems to mention this as the only year in request among the aegyptians : and so s. austin . perhibentur aegyptii quondam tam breves annos habuisse ut quaternis mensibus finirentur . this renders then the aegyptians accounts yet more uncertain , and only leaves us to guess with the greatest probability of reason what form of year was meant by them in their computations . so when diodorus speaks so much in favour of the old aegyptian kings and laws , and produceth this from the aegyptian priests , as the best evidence of the excellent temper of their government , that they had kings of their own nation for the space of years , till the time of cambyses his inroad into aegypt , which was in the third year of the olympiad . now besides the apparent contradiction of these accounts to the other already explained , if we take them in gross , as the aegyptians give them , it is evident this can be no otherwise true , then by taking these accounts in that form of years now mentioned by us . for these years , taking them for dayes apiece , make up of iulian years . which being deducted from the year of the world . which was the time when cambyses invaded aegypt , the remainder is a. m. . about which time we may fix the death of orus , from whom their proper kings commenced . and of these years vossius tells us we are to understand what they report of the long lives of their ancient kings , when they attribute to each of them the space of years , as when they attribute a and more to their eldest kings , we are to understand them of simple lunar years of days , by which these gigantick measures of the term of their lives , may without the help of procrustes be cut short according to the proportion of mens ordinary age in those eldest times . so when diodorus reckons from the death of proteus to his own time a. m. . years , it must be understood of these years of four equal moneths ; for so those years make up of iulian years . which being deduced from . the remainder is . about which year of the world proteus may be supposed to live , which was about the time of the iudges in israel . neither was this only the aegyptians way , but in probability the antient chaldeans observed the same , which may be a ground likewise of those unmeasurable accounts among them in their first dynastyes , as is evident in the fragments of abydenus and apollodorus out of berosus , where the times of their first kings are reckoned not by years but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; now according to them every 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 contained . years , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . now who can imagine that alorus and the ten kings from him to xisuthrus should raign . sari as their computation is , which reckoning for every saros . years makes up . years ? a very fair sum for the chaldean dynastyes before the time of xisuthrus by whom in probability noah was by them understood . there have been only two wayes thought on of dealing with these computations ; either rejecting them as wholly fabulous , and founded on no evidence or records of history , as we have seen already ; only they might retain ( being so near the place of the settlement of noah and his posterity after the flood ) the memory not only of the flood ( of which it is evident they had several remainders preserved in their traditions ) but likewise of the ages of men preceding the flood , wherein they were right reckoning from alorus the first to xisuthrus , i. e. from adam to noah ten generations ; but as to the names of those ten persons and the times they lived in , being wholly ignorant through the unfaithfulness of tradition , they took their liberty not only of coining names , but of setting what age to them they pleased themselves . and to this purpose scaliger observes that some of their first kings are reckoned before the flood , which saith he , is denyed by georgius syncellus without any shew of reason : thus far then we may admit of the chaldeans dynastyes as to some part of the tradition , but rejecting their names and computations as fabulous . the other way of explaining these dynastyes , is by the several wayes of computation among them ; for the learned monks , panodorus , and anianus , understand those vast sums , not of years , but dayes , and so make a saros to contain . months of . dayes a piece , which saith scaliger , make ten chaldee years , and a nirus . equal months , and a sosos two : according to which computation , the sari make but . years . but this computation of theirs is rejected by georgius syncellus , because he supposeth eusebius so well versed in these things , that he would never have set them down for years , if the chaldaeans had not understood them so , and therefore he would not trouble himself in reducing fables to true history , as he expresseth it , whose words are at large produced by scaliger in the fore-cited place ; and it will appear more necessary to reject those chaldaean computations , if we take the sums of their years in the sense which salmasius gives of them in the preface to his book de annis climactericis ( from whom pyrerius the author of the praeadamites ) hath borrowed most of his arguments as to these things . ) according to him then , every 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 contained no less then . years , as the toman among the persians contained . but because that learned man hath only given us his reperi scriptum , without any certain foundation for so large an account of those sums , we shall take them in as favourable a sense as we can . in order to which a very learned man of our own hath found a third interpretation of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the chaldee accounts , from a correction of suidas by the m. s. in the vatican library , according to which he thus reads the words . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and so the sense , saith he , is clear 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 according to th● chaldee account comprehends . months , which come to ●ighteen years and sixth months ; therefore . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 make . years , and therefore , ( he adds ) for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . i read , leaving out the last 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . now according to this sense of . sari to comprehend the sum of . years , it will be no difficult matter to reduce the fragment of berosus concerning the ten kings before the flood reigning . sari , to some degree of probability , as to which i shall only suppose these two things . first , that the ancient chaldeans had preserved among them some tradition of the number of the chief persons before the flood ; for we find them exactly agreeing with the scriptures as to the number , though differing as to the names of them , which may be seen in the fragments of africanus preserved in eusebius his greek chronica . secondly , that berosus from whom apollodorus and alexander polyhistor deliver these computations , might as to the account of the times of those persons follow the translation of the septuagint . for i have already made it evident that berosus did not publish his history till after the septuagint was abroad ; now according to the computation of the septuagint of the ages before the flood , these . sari of the ten kings will not much disagtee from it . for these make . years of these ten persons , and the septuagint in all make . so that if in stead of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in suidas , we only read it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 we have the exact computation of the septuagint in these . sari ; but of this let the learned judge . we now to come to the aegyptian dynastyes of manetho , as to which i doubt we must be fain to take the same course that eusebius did with the chaldean , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not to trouble our selves overmuch in seeking to reconcile fables to truth . great pains is taken by some very learned men to reduce the disorderly dynastyes of manetho to some probable account ; but i must confess upon an impartial examination of them , that i think they have striven if not to make an ethiopian white , yet an aegyptian to speak truth concerning his own country , which are almost of an equal impossibility . ioseph scaliger who first in this latter age of the world p●oduced them into the light out of georgius syncellus , hath a more favourable opinion of them , then of the aegyptian history , of herodotus , diodorus and others , but upon what account i cannot imagine . is it because four dynastyes according to his own computation exceed the creation of the world according to the true account ? for which he is fain to make use of his tempus prolepticum and iulian period , which reacheth . years beyond the age of the world , and was invented by him from the multiplication of the great cycle into the indiction , i. e. of . into . or is it because for sooth man●tho hath digested all into better order and reckoned up the several dynastyes which lay consused in other authors ? but this only shews him a more cunning impostor who saw the former accounts given by others would not serve the turn , and therefore pretends to more exactness and diligence , that he might more easily deceive his readers . but setting aside those things which have been said already concerning manetho , i have these things which make me reject his dynastyes as fabulous : first , the vast difference between manetho his accounts and all others who have written the aegyptian history in the order and names of his dynastyes . where do we ever read of the several dynastyes of the thinites , memphites , suites , diospolitans and many others but in himself ? it is very strange that neither herodotus , nor eratosthenes , nor diodorus , who have all written a succession of the egyptian kings , should neither by their own industry , nor by all the interest they had in egypt , get any knowledge of these methodically digested dynastyes . besides , had there been any historical certainty in these dynastyes of manetho , whence comes it to pass that they should be so silently passed over by those who were egyptian priests themselves and undertook to write the history of egypt ? such were chaeremon who was an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a sacred scribe , and ptolomaeus mendesius who was an egyptian priest , as eusebius tells us , and comprehended the history of egypt in three books . now had this history been so authentical as is pretended , whence come so many and great contradictions between them , in so much that iosephus saith , if that which they report were true , it were impossible they should so much differ ; but they labour in the invention of lyes , and write neither agreeably to the truth nor to one another . so that it is next to a miracle almost to see how prodigiously fond of these dynastyes kircher is , and what pains he hath taken to no purpose about them ; scio multos esse , ●aith he , qui hujusmodi dynastias meras nugas & commenta putant ; very true ; but why is not he of the same mind too ? he confesseth himself to have been so once ; but since he had conversed more with the oriental traditions , he hath found them not to be so fabulous as many make them . it seems then the basis of the aegyptian dynastyes as well before the flood as after , must lye in this oriental tradition ; a thing , which some , to shew their great skill in those eastern languages , are grown very fond of . but as far as i can yet see , they sail to ophir not for gold , but peacocks ; and the next legend the world hath should be called legenda orientalis . for can any thing be more irrational , absurd and fabulous , then those arabick traditions which that author scrapes as much for , as aesops cock did on the dunghill ? but there is no jewell to be found among them : unless we should take those . hard names of men for such which by the arabick writers are said to have succeeded each other in egypt before the flood , viz. nacraus , nathras , mesram , henoah , arjak , hasilim , husal , tatrasan , sarkak , schaluk , surith , ( who they say built the pyramids ) hugith , manaus , aphrus , malinus , abn ama pharaun , in whose time they say the flood came . but should we be so little befriended by reason as to grant all this , what advantage will this be to manetho who speaks not of kings but whole dynastyes ? so that it still appears these dynastyes are fabulous not being attested by any credible witnesses . secondly , all those who profess to follow manetho , differ strangely from one another , as iosephus , africanus , eusebius , george the syncellus of the patriarchs of tarasius ; and scaliger who hath taken so much pains in digesting of them , yet he is condemned by others since ; and isaac vossius gives a particular caution to his reader , in his dynastiis compingendis nequaquam esse sequendum ordinem & calculum scaligeri . what should be the reason of this diversity , but that they thought them not so authentick ▪ but they might cut off , alter and transpose as they saw occasion ? which is most plain and evident in eusebius , who makes no difficulty of ●utting of one whole dynasty , and dividing another into two , only to reconcile the distance between thuoris the egyptian king , and tentamus the assyrian emperour , and the destruction of troy , and therefore leaves out . assyrian kings and a whole dynasty of the egyptians to make a synchronisme between those three . but yet there hath been something very fairly offered to the world to clear the truth , if not manetho , in order to his dynastyes , viz. that the subtle egyptian to inhance the antiquity of his own country , did take implicite years for solid , and place those in a succession which were cotemporary one with another ; this indeed is a very compendious way to advance a great sum of years with a very little charge : wherein he hath done saith cappellus , as if a spaniard in the indies should glory of the antiquity of the dynastyes of spain , and should attribute to the earles of barcinona . years , to the king of arragon . to the king of portugal . to the king of leo . of castile . years , and yet all these dynastyes rise from the years of our lord . when the saracens first entred spain . there are very few nations , but will go near to vie antiquity with the egyptians , if they may thus be allowed to reckon successively all those petty royalties which antiently were in most nations ; as might be particularly instanced in most great empires , that they gradually rise from the subduing and incorporating of those petty royalties into which the several nations were cantonized before . and there seems to be very strong ground of suspition that some such thing was designed by manetho from the . dynasty which is of the diospolitan thebans ; for this dynasty is said to begin from the tenth year of the . dynasty of the phaenician pastours in the time of saites ; now which is most observable , he that begins this dynasty , is of the very same name with him who begins the very first dynasty of manetho , who is menes , and so likewise his son athothis is the same in both : which hath made many think because menes is reckoned first , not only in both these , but in diodorus , eratosthenes and others , that this menes was he who first began the kingdom of egypt , after whose time it was divided into several dynastyes . which makes scaliger say , illa vet ustissima regna fuerunt instar latrociniorum , ubi vis non lex aut successio aut suffragia populi reges in solio regni collocabant . this opinion of the coexistence of these dynastyes is much embraced by vossius both father and son , and by the father made use of to justifie scaliger from calumniatours , who made as though scaliger did in effect overthrow the authority of the scriptures by mentioning with some applause the dynastyes of manetho . but to this opinion how plausible soever it seems , i offer these exceptions . first , as to that menes who is supposed to be the first founder of the aegyptian kingdom , after whose death it is supposed that aegypt was divided into all these dynastyes , i demand therefore who this menes was ; was he the same with him whom the scripture calls misraim who was the first planter of egypt ? this is not probable , for in all probability his name must be sought among the gods and not the mortals that raigned . if we suppose him to be any other after him , it will be hard giving an account how he came to have the whole power of egypt in his hands , and so soon after him it should be divided . for kingdoms are ofttimes made up of those petty royalties before ; but it will be very hard finding instances of one persons enjoying the whole power , and so many dynastyes to arise after his decease , and to continue coexistent in peace and full power so long as these several dynastyes are supposed to do . besides , is it not very strange that no historian should mention such a former distribution of several principalities so antiently in egypt ? but that which to me utterly overthrows the coexistence of these dynastyes in egypt , is , by comparing with them what we finde in scripture of greatest antiquity concerning the kingdom of egypt ; which i cannot but wonder that none of these learned men should take notice of . when the egyptian kingdom was first founded , is not here a place to enquire ; but it is evident that in abrahams time , there was a pharaoh king of egypt ( whom archbishop usher thinks to have been apophis ) not abimelech the first king of egypt , as constantinus manasses reports in his annals ( by a ridiculous mistake of the king of gerar for the king of egypt . ) this pharaoh was then certainly king of all the land of egypt , which still in scripture is called the land of misraim from the first planter of it ; and this was of very great antiquity ; and therefore funccius ( though improbably ) thinks this pharaoh to have been osiris , and rivet thinks misraim might have been alive till that time ; here then we find no dynastyes coexisting , but one kingdom under one king. if we descend somewhat lower , to the times of iacob and ioseph , the evidence is so undoubted of aegypts being an entire kingdom under one king , that he may have just cause to suspect the ●yes either of his body or his mind that distrusts it . for what more evident then that pharaoh who preferred ioseph , was king of all the land of aegypt ? were not the seven years of famine over all the land of aegypt ? gen. . . was not joseph set by pharaoh over all the land of aegypt ? gen. . , , . and did not joseph go over all the land of aegypt to gather corn ? gen. . . nay did not he buy all the land of aegypt for pharaoh ? gen. . . can there possibly be given any fuller evidence of an entire kingdom , then these are that egypt was such then ? afterwards we read of one king after another in egypt for the space of nigh two hundred years , during the children of israels slavery in egypt ; and was not he think we , king over all egypt , in whose time the children of israel went out thence ? and in all the following history of scripture , is there not mention made of aegypt still as an entire kingdom , and of one king over it ? where then is there any place for these co-temporary dynastyes in aegypt ? nowhere that i know of , but in the sancies of some learned men . indeed there is one place that seems to give some countenance to this opinion ; but it is in far later times then the first dynastyes of manetho are supposed to be in , which is in isai. . . where god , saith he , would set the aegyptians against the aegyptians , and they shall fight every one against his brother , city against city , and kingdom against kingdom . where it seems that there were several kingdoms then existent among the aegyptians ; but the septuagint very well renders it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 now 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 among the aegyptians , as epiphanius and others tell us , notes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the precincts of every great city , such as our counties are , and therefore pliny renders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by praefecturae ; these were the several provinces of aegypt , of which there were thirty six in aegypt , ten in thebais , ten in delta , the other sixteen in the midland parts ; so that by kingdom against kingdom , no more is meant then one province being set against another . isaac vossius thinks the number of the antient nomi was twelve , and that over every one of these was a peculiar king ; and that this number may be gathered from the dynastyes of manetho , setting aside the dynastyes of the persians , aethiopians , and phaenicians : viz. the thinites , memphites , elephantines , heracleopolitans , diospolitan thebans , the lesser diospolitans , xoites , tanites , bubastites , saites , mendesians and sebennytes : and so that aegypt was antiently a dodecarchy , as england in the saxons times was a heptarchy . but as it already appears , there could be antiently no such dodecarchy in aegypt ; so it is likewise evident that this distribution of aegypt into nomi is a later thing , and by most writers is attributed to sesoosis or sesostris , whom iosephus supposeth to be sesac king of aegypt , cotemporary with rhehoboam . indeed if we believe gelaldinus the arabick historian cited by kircher , the most antient distribution of aegypt was into four parts . misraim held one part to himself , and gave his son copt another , esmun a third , and atrib a fourth part ; which division the same author affirms to have continued till the time of ioseph , who made a new distribution of the whole land : after him sesestris divided the whole into thirty several nomi ; so kircher will needs have it , that of the three several parts of aegypt , each might have for some mystical signification its ten nomi , of which every one had its distinct and peculiar god it worshipped , and a particular palace in the labyrinth , and a peculiar sanhedrim or court of iustice belonging to it . but it evidently appears by that vain-glorious oedipus , that it is a far easier matter to make new mysteries , then to interpret old ones , which as it might be easily discovered in the main foundations whereon that structure stands , so we have some evidence of it in our first entrance into it , in this part of chorography of aegypt . for from whence had he this exact division of aegypt into thirty nomi , t●n of which belonged to the upper aegypt or th●bais , ten to delta or the lower aegypt , and the ten remaining to the midland countrey ? hath he this from ptolomy , whose scheme of the several nomi he publisheth ? no. ptolomy and pliny by his own confession afterwards add many other to these , as omphile , phanturites , tinites , phatnites , ne●t , heptanomos , &c. hath he it from strabo whose authority he cites for it ? no such matter . for strabo saith expresly that thebais had ten nomi , delta ten , and the midland sixteen ; only some are of opinion , saith he , that there were as many nomi as palaces in the labyrinth , which were toward thirty ; but yet the number is uncertain still . we see by this how ominous it is for an oedipus to stumble at the threshold , and how easie a matter it is to interpret mysteries , if we may have the making of them . we see then no evidence at all for these cotemporary dynastyes of manetho ; which yet if we should grant , would be a further argument of the uncertainly of heathen chronology , when among them implicite years are given out to the world for solid ; so that which way soever manetho his dynastyes be taken , they will prove the thing in hand , whether we suppose them at least most part fabulous , or should grant he had taken those in succession to each other , which were co-existent with one another . chap. vi. the uncertain epocha's of heathen chronology . an account given of the defect of chronology in the eldest times . of the solar year among the aegyptians , the original of the epacts , the antiquity of intercalation among them . of the several canicular years ; the difference between scaliger and petavius considered . the certain epocha's of the aegyptian history no elder then nabonasser . of the graecian accounts . the fabulousness of the heroical age of greece . of the antient graecian kingdoms . the beginning of the olympiads . the uncertain origines of the western nations . of the latine dynastyes . the different palilia of rome . the uncertain reckoning ab v. c. of impostures as to antient histories . of annius , inghiramius , and others . of the characters used by heathen priests . no sacred characters among the iews . the partiality and inconsistency of heathen histories with each other . from all which the want of credibility in them as to an account of antient times is clearly demonstrated . the next thing to evidence the uncertainty of the heathen chronology , is , the want of certain parapegmata , or some fixed periods of time , according to which the account of times must be made . for if there be no certain epocha's by which to reckon the succession of ages , the distance of intervalls , and all intervening accidents , we must of necessity fluctuate in continual uncertainties , and have no sure foundation to bottom any account of antient times upon . the great reason of this defect , is the little care which those who lived in the eldest times had to preserve the memory of any antient tradition among themselves , or to convey it to posterity in such a way as might be least lyable to imposture . of all kinds of learning , chronology was the most rude in eldest times ; and yet that is well called by scaliger , the life and soul of history , without which , history is but a confused lump , a meer mola , an indigested piece of flesh , without life or form . the antient accounts of the world were meerly from year to year , and that with abundance of obscurity , uncertainty and variety : sometimes going by the course of the moon , and therein they were as mutable as the moon her self , how to conform the year regularly to her motion ; and it was yet greater difficulty to regul●te it by the course of the sun , and to make the accounts of the sun and moon meet . there was so much perplexity and confusion about the ordering of a single year , and so long in most nations before they could bring it in●o any order , that we are not to expect any fixed periods by which to find out the succession of ages among them . among the aegyptians who are supposed most skilful in the account of the year , it was a long time before they found out any certain course of it . it is agreed by most , that when the aegyptian priests had found out the form of the year by the course of the sun , ( which is attributed by diodorus to the heliopolitan priests ) yet the year in common use was only of . dayes , which in any great period of years must needs cause a monstrous confusion by reason that their moneths must of necessity by degrees change their place , so that in the great canicular year of . thoyth which was the beginning of the summer solstice in the entrance into that period , would be removed into the midst of winter , from whence arose that aegyptian fable in herodotus , that in the time of their eldest kings , the sun had twice changed his rising and setting ; which was only caused by the variation of their moneths , and not by any alteration in the course of the sun. which defect the aegyptian priests at last observing , saw a necessity of adding five dayes to the end of the year , which thence were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which implyes they were not antiently in use among them , being afterwards added to make up the course of the year . which the aegyptians give an account of , as plutarch tells us under this fable : mercury being once at dice with the moon , he got from her the . part of the year , which he after added to the . dayes which were antiently the dayes of the year , which they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and therein celebrated the festivals of their gods , thence the names of the several 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were taken from the gods ; the first was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it being celebrated in honour of him ; the second 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by which scaliger understands anubis , but vossius more probably the senior orus ; the third to typho , the fourth to isis , the fift to nephtha the wife of typho and sister to isis. this course of the year scaliger thinks that the aegyptians represented by the serpent called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being described in a round circle biting some part of his tail in his mouth , whereby , saith he , they would have it understood , that the form of the year was not perfect without that adjection of five dayes to the end of the year : for to this day , saith he , the coptites and antient aegyptians call the end of the year 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . it seems that afterwards they understood likewise the necessity of intercalation of a day every fourth year for the sake of the redundant quadrant each year above . dayes ; which course of four years they called their canicular year , because they observed its defect in that time one whole day from the rising of the dog-star ; and besides , that they called it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; & lustrum sothiacum from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the dog-star ; but censorinus denies any use of intercalation among the egyptians in their civil year , although their sacred and hieroglyphical years might admit of it . and upon this ground , i suppose the controversie between those two learned persons scaliger and petavius concerning the antiquity of intercalation among the egyptians may be reconciled . for on the one side it is apparent , that the ordinary or civil year did want intercalation , by this testimony of censorinus ; eorum annus civilis solos habet dies . sine ullo intercalari ; itaque quadriennium apud cos uno circiter die minus est quam naturale quadriennum ; and thence saith he , it comes to pass , that in . years which was the great heliacal year , it returns to the same beginning ; for then the dog-star ariseth again upon the first day of the month thoyth , as it did at the beginning of this great canicular year ; and that this kind of civil year did continue among them in the time of censorinus ( which was of the dionysian account . ) appears by this , that he saith in the year wherein he wrote his book , the new-moon of thoyth was before the seventh day of the calends of iuly , whereas . years before , it was before the . of the calends of august ; whence it is evident , that the iulian year whatever some learned men pretend to the contrary , was not in ordinary use among the egyptians in that time ; and that sosigenes when he corrected the roman account and brought in the form of the iulian year , did not take his pattern from the egyptian year , but from the graecians of alexandria , who did make use of the quadrant added to the . years , which the egyptians did not , as appeare further by the golden circle in the monument of osymanduas ( which diodorus speaks of out of hecataeus milesius ) which was of . cubits compass , and divided into so many segments for every day with the observations of the rising and setting of the several stars , and the effects portended by them . and the reason why this year continued in civil use among the egyptians , is well assigned by geminus , that the egyptians according to a superstitious observation they had , would needs have their festivals run through every day in the year . but now on the other side , it is as evident that by continual observation the wisest of the egyptian priests did discern the necessity of intercalation , and that there wanted six hours in every year to make it compleat , which every four years would make the intercalation of a day necessary ; so much by diodorus is affirmed of the theban priests who were the best astronomers , and by strabo both of the theban and heliopolitan ; and so likewise horapollo , whose work was to interpret the more abstruse learning of the egyptian priests ; when , ( saith he ) the egyptians would express a year , they name a quadrant , because from one rising of the star sothis to another , the fourth part of a day is added , so that the year consists of . dayes ( and a quadrant must be added , because of the antecedents and consequents ) therefore every fourth year they reckon a supernumerary day . how unjustly petavius hath charged scaliger with falshood in reference to this testimony of horapollo , meerly because the citation did not appear in that chapter mentioned by scaliger in the book which petavius used , hath been already observed by learned men ; whereupon vossius condemns . petavius of strange incogitancy , because in three editions mentioned by him , scaligers citation was right ; but conringius hath since pleaded in behalf of petavius , that he might make use of the edition of causinus distinct from the other three ; whereby we see how small a matter will beget a send between learned men , especially where prejudice hath lodged before , as is too evident in petavius his rough dealing on all occasions with that very deserving person ioseph scaliger . but to return , from hence by degrees the egyptians proceeded to make greater periods of years ( as eudoxus carried his octaëter is into greece from the canicular year of the egyptians ) they framed from this a greater canicular year , which had as many years as a iulian hath dayes ; and lastly , the greatest canicular year which comprehended four of the greater , and consisted of a period of . years . but thus we see , that the great periods of years among them rise gradually as they grow more skillfull in the understanding the nature of the year ; and that they had antiently no certain periods to govern themselves by in their computation of antient times . nay the egyptians have not as appears , any certain epocha to go by elder then the egyptian years of nabonassar , and afterwards from the death of alexander , and ptolomy philadelphus , and augustus his victory at actium . if from the aegyptians we remove our discourse unto the grecians , we are still plunged into greater uncertainties , it being acknowledged by themselves that they had no certain succession of time before the olympiads . to which purpose the testimony of varro in censorinus is generally taken notice of , distributing time into three parts , reckoning two of them to be unknown and fabulous , and the historical part of time to begin with the first olympiad . indeed scaliger and some others are loth to reject all that second part of time as fabulous , which was in the interval between deucalions flood and the olympiads ; therefore they had rather call it heroical , though much corrupted with fables , and think that it was historical as to persons , but fabulous as to the actions of those persons . but granting this , yet we are wholly to seek for any certain account of the succession of time and persons , for want of some certain epocha's , which like the pole-star should guide ut in our passage through that boundless ocean of the graecian history . it must be confessed that some of the learned heathens have taken a great deal of pains this way to find out some certain periods to fix on in the time before the olympiads , as philocorus , apollodorus , and dionysius halycarnassensis , and others , who out of their skill in astronomy sought to bring down some certain intervals between the destruction of troy , and the first olympick game of pelops , restored by hercules & atreus . but granting that their epocha's were fixed and certain , that the destruction of troy was upon the of thargelion , the moneth of the attick account , and that the olympick game fell out answerably to the ninth of our iuly , and these things were evidently proved from astronomical observations ; yet how vast an account of time is lost quite beyond the siege of troy ! and besides that , as to all other accidents in the in-tervals between these two epocha's , which could not be proved by celestial observations concurrent with them , they were left at a very great uncertainty still ; only they might guess whether they approached nearer to one epocha then the other ; but the series of families and their generations ( three of which made a century of years ) whereby they might come to some conjectures , but could never arrive at any certainty at all . but that which is most to our purpose , is , that all the history of the original of greece , the foundations of their several kingdoms , the succestion of their first kings , and all that comes under the name of the history of their ancient times , is clearly given over by their own most skilful chronologers , as matters out of the reach of any clear evidence . thence come such great differences concerning the antiquity of their ancient kingdoms ; the argolick kingdom by dionysius halycarnass . is supposed to be the eldest , and the attick younger then it by generations , which according to their computation comes to a years , which is impossible ; and yet the arcadians , who gave themselves out to be elder then the moon , are supposed to be younger by him then the grashoppers of athens by nine generations ; and the pthiotica under deucalion , younger thenthe arcadica by generations , which scaliger might well say were impossible and inconsistent . the sycyonian kingdom is by most supposed to be of greatest antiquity among the graecians , from which varro began his history , as s. austin tells us , and yet as to this , pausanias only re●kons the names of some kings there , without any succession of time among them ; and yet as to those names , africanus ( and eusebius from him ) dissent from pausanias ; and which is most observable , homer reckons adrastus , who is the in the account of africanus , to be the first that reigned in secyon , whose time was after the institution of the olympick game by pelops : of him thus homer , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whereby he expresseth adrastus to be the first king of sicyon ; and not as scaliger would interpret it , that adrastus was first king of the sicyonians before he was of the argives ; for in the time of adrastus at sicyon , either atreus , or thyestes was king of the argives ; for in the second year of phaestus and adrastus his supposed predecessor in sicyon , atreus restored the olympick game of pelops , in the year of their reign , and they reigned at argi years : now that phaestus at sicyon is supposed to reign but eight years ; and therefore the reign of adrastus at sicyon falls in with that of atreus & thyestes at argi or mycenae . thus we see now how uncertain the account of times was before the beginning of the olympiads among the graecians , which is fully acknowledged by diodorus , and the very reason given which we here insist on , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that there was no certainty in the ancient graecian history , because they had no certain term ( which he calls parapegma , as others epocha , and censorinus titulus ) from whence to deduce their accounts . but now from the time of the olympiads ( i. e. from the first of them after their restauration by iphitus , wherein the names of the conquerors were ingraven in brass tablets for the purpose ) the succession of time is most certain and historical among the graecians ; by which account we have from thence a certain way of commensurating the sacred and prophane history . all the difficulty is in what year of sacred history the olympiads began , which scaliger thus finds out . censorinus writes ( in the year of christ . which was of the iulian period . ) that , that year was from the first olympiad of iphitus . the first olympiad was of the iulian period . which was according to our learned primate a. m. . and the of uzziah king of iudah , or the . as capellus thinks : so that from henceforward we have a clear account of times , which we have demonstrated to have been so uncertain before . if we come from the greeks further into these european parts , we shall find as much darkness and obscurity as to ancient times , if not more , then in those already discoursed of . for the truth is , the account of times before the romans in italy , germany , old gallia or britain , are scarce fit to be discoursed of under any head then that of impostures . not that i think those nations had lain in a perpetual sleep till the romans waked them into some kind of civility , but that they had no certain way of conveying down the transactions of their own and former times to the view of posterity . on which account we may justly reject all those pretended successions of kings h●re in britain from gomer to brute as fabulous : and it will be the less wonder it should be so in those then accounted barbarous nations , when even among those who were the planters of knowledge and civility among others , the account of their ancient times is so dark , confused , and uncertain : as it would sufficiently appear to any that would take the pains to examine the succession of the two first dynastyes among the latins ; the first before aeneas his coming into italy , and the second of the aeneadae after ; and certainly it will be sufficient ground to question the account of times before , if in the third dynasty , when the succession seems so clear , and so certain an epocha as the building of rome , to deduce their accounts from their chronology be uncertain , which i shall briefly speak to . for although porcius cato have in dionysius the honour of finding out the first palilia of the city of rome ( which was the feast observed to the honour of the god pales , in the time of which , the foundations of rome were laid ) yet there appears no great certainty in his undertaking ; for therein he was after contradicted by the learned roman varro . dionysius tells us that cato found by the censors tables the exact time from the expulsion of the kings , to the time of the cities being taken by the gauls ; from which time to his own , he could not miss of it from the fasti consulares ; so that it cannot be denied but that cato might have a certain account of times from the regifugium to the time he writ his origines . but what certainty cato could have from the first palilia of the city to the expulsion of tarquin , we cannot understand . for the succession of kings must needs be very uncertain , unless it be demonstrated from some publick monuments , or certain records , or some publick actions certainly known to have fallen out precisely in such a year of their several reigns . now none of these do occur in the roman history in all that interval from the palilia to the regifugium ; so that not only the whole interval , but the time of every particular kings reign , are very uncertain . and therefore varro being destitute of any demonstration of that time , had recourse to l. tarrutius firmanus , to see if by his skill in astronomy he could certainly find out the first palilia of rome : his answer was , that he found that the city was built in the time of an eclipse of the sun , which was in the third year of the sixth olympiad , according to which account varro proceeded , and thence arose the difference between the palilia catoniana and varroniana ; the latter falling out in the of iphitus , the other in the . but if we believe ioseph scaliger , there could not be an eclipse of the sun at the time affirmed by tarrutius : but yet granting an eclipse of the sun then , what certainty can we have of the succession of the several kings afterwards , without which there can be no certain computation ab urbe condita ? if then the romans , who had so great advantage of knowing times , and were withall so inquisitive concerning the building of their city ( which was a thing of no very remote distacne ) could attain to no absolute certainty without it , what certainty can we expect as to an account of far ancienter times , either from them or others , when they had no censors tables , nor fasti consulares to be guided by ? and thus much may serve to shew the great uncertainty of heathen chronology , as to the giving an account of ancient times . and yet were it only an uncertainty as to chronology , we might better bear with it ; for the mistake meerly in computation of times were not so dangerous ( any further then the credibility of the history depends on the computation , as in point of antiquity ) if we were but certain that the persons and actions related of them were such as they are reported to be . but that which adds much to the confusion and uncertainty of heathen history , is , the frequency of impostures , which are more hard to be discovered , in that there are no authentick histories of those times extant , which hath both given occasion to variety of imposture , and much hindered their discovery . for the curiosity of men leading them back into a search after ancient times , it makes them exceeding credulous in embracing whatever pretends to give them any conduct through those dark and obscure paths of ancient history : and the world hath never been wanting of such as would be ready to abuse the simple credulity of well-meaning , but less wary men ; but those ages have been most feracious in the production of such persons , which have pretended to more learning then they had . the pretence of learning made such persons appear , and the want of it made them not be discovered . thus it was not only of old among the chaldean and aegyptian priests , and the graecian poets and historians , of whom we have spoken already ; but even among those who might have learned more truth from the religion they professed , then to think it stood in need of their lyes . for there can be no greater disparagement offered to truth , then to defend it with any thing but it self , nothing laying truth so open to suspicion , as when falshood comes to be its advocate : and a false testimony discovered , doth more prejudice to a good cause , then it could any wayes advantage it , were it not discovered ; and therefore their labours have been as serviceable to the world who have discovered impostors , as those who have directly maintained truth against its open opposers , those being so much more dangerous , in that they appear in the disguise of truth , and therefore are with more difficulty discovered . such a one was that ignis fatuus that appeared in a kind of twilight in the christian world between the former darkness of barbarism , and the approaching light of knowledge ; i mean annius viterbiensis , who like hannibal in passing the alps , not finding a way ready to his mind , sets himself to burning the woods , and firing the rocks , and dissolving them with vinegar to make a passage through them : so annius being beset in those snowy and gray-headed alps of ancient history , and finding no way clear for him according to his fancy , he labours to burn down all certain records , to eat through the credit of undoubted authors , to make a more free passage for his own history , which he deduceth suitably to scripture from the concurrent testimony of the eldest historians . to which purpose , a new berosus , manetho , philo , metasthenes ( as he mistook for megasthenes ) and xenophon must put on a grave disguise , and walk abroad the world with a mantle of antiquity about their shoulders , although they were nothing else but aery phantasms , covered over with the cowl of the monk of viterbo . for being himself somewhat more versed in the history of those elder times then generally persons were in the age he lived in , he made that unhappy use of his skill , to play the mountebank with his learning ; and to abuse the credulity of those who have better stomacks then palats , and can sooner swallow down the compositions that are given them , then find out the ingredients of them . thus annius puts a good face on his new-old authors , bids them be bold and confident , and they would fare the better : and the truth is they tell their story so punctually in all circumstances , in those things which had no certain conveyance to posterity , that that were sufficient ground to any intelligent person to question their authority . but lest his authors should at any time want an interpreter to make out their full meaning , he sets himself a large commentary upon them : and certainly he was the fittest person in the world to do it ; for cujus ●st condere , ejus ●st interpretari ; none so fit to explain annius , as annius himself . the whole story of this imposture , how he made the inscriptions himself , and hid them under ground , how they were digged thence and brought to annius ; how annius caused them to be sent to the magistrates , and after published them in the equipage they are in , are at large related by that learned bishop antonius augustinus , from latinus latinius . from a like quarry to this , came out those other famous inscriptions , walking under the specious title of antiquitatum ethruscarum fragmenta , wherein , besides many palpable incongruities to the customs of those eldest times , discovered partly by leo allatius in his discourse concerning them , there are so many particular stories and circumstances related concerning noah's being in italy , and other things , so far beyond any probability of reason , that it is a wonder there are yet any persons pretending to learning , who should build their discourses upon such rotten and sandy foundations as these inscriptions are . but though ixion might , iupiter would never have been deceived with a cloud instead of iuno ; so , though persons unacquainted with the lineaments of truth , may be easily imposed on with appearances instead of her : yet such persons who have sagacity enough to discern the air of her countenance from the paint of forgeries , will never suffer themselves to be over-reached by such vain pretenders . but these impostors are like the astrologers at rome , ever banished , and yet ever there ; and so these are ever exploded by all lovers of truth , yet always find some to applaud and entertain them : although it be more difficult to do so now in the present light of knowledge , and all advantages for learning , then it was in those elder times , when the heathen priests pretended to the monopoly of learning among themselves , and made it one of their great designs to keep all others in dependence on themselves , thereby to keep up their veneration the better among the people . and therefore all the records they had of learning or history , were carefully lockt up , and preserved among the priests ; and lest at any time others might get a view of them , they were sure to preserve them in a peculiar character distinct from that in civil and common use . by which means the heathen priests had all imaginable opportunities and conveniences for deceiving the silly people , and thereby keeping them in an obsequious ignorance , which is never the mother of any true devotion , but of the greatest superstition . it is well known of the aegyptian priests , that the sacred characters of their temples were seldom made known to any but such as were of their own number and family , ( the priesthood being there hereditary ) or such others as by long converse had insinuated themselves into their society , as some of the greek philosophers and historians had done : and yet we have some reason to think they were not over-free and communicative to some of them , by the slender account they give of several things , which are supposed to be well known among the aegyptians . that the phoenician priests had their peculiar and sacred characters too , is evident from the words of philo byblius concerning sanchoniathon , if we take bochartus his exposition of them : he tells us that his history was compared 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , with the inscriptions in the temples written in the ammunean letters , which are known to few : literae ammuneorum ( saith bochartus ) sunt literae templorum , literae in sacr is exceptae . for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the sun , thence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the temple of the sun , whom the phoenicians worshipped as their principal deity , under the name of beel-samen , the lord of heaven . the same author tells us out of diogenes laertius , of a book of democritus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; by which it is evident that the babylonian priests had their sacred characters too : and of a testimony of theodoret of all the graecian temples , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that they had some peculiar characters which were called sacred . but that leraned author thinks there is no necessity of understanding it peculiarly of the graecians , because the greek fathers called all heathens by the name of greeks ; but if so , the testimony is the larger , and amounts to an universal testimony of the heathen temples . neither was this only peculiar to them , if we believe some persons of greater learning then iudgment , who attribute this distinction of sacred and vulgar characters to the iews as well as others , but without any probability of reason . for these learned men being strongly possessed with the opinion of the modern iews concerning the antiquity of the present hebrew characters , and finding themselves pressed not only with the testimony of some ancient rabbins , but with the stronger evidence of the ancient shekels about solomons time , inscribed with the samaritan letters , have at last found this evasion , that the samaritan letters were in vulgar use ; but the present characters were then sacred , and not made common till after the time of the captivity . but this seems to be a meer shift found out by some modern iews , and greedily embraced by their followers , because thereby they are in hopes to evade the strength of the contrary arguments , which otherwise they can find no probable solution of . and a meer shift it will appear to be , to any one that considers on how little ground of reason it stands : for none of those reasons which held for such a distinction of characters among the heathens , can have any place among the iews . for it was never any part of gods design to have the law kept from the peoples view . truth is never so fearful of being seen abroad ; it is only falshood that walks under disguises , and must have its hiding-places to retreat to : nay , god expresly commanded it as a duty of all the iews , to search and study his law , which they could not do , if it were locked up from them in an unknown character . did not god himself promulge it among the people of israel by the ministry of moses ? did he not command it to be as frontlets between their eyes , and signs upon their hands ( not that phylacteries should be made of the law to wear , as the pharisees interpreted it , and others from them have mistaken ) but that they should have the law in continual remembrance , as if it were always between their eyes , and ingraven upon their hands . again , if we suppose the law to be among the people , but in the vulgar character , i would fain know , what sanctity , majesty , and authority , there was in that character more then in the words and matter ? and if there were , how comes the vulgar use of it to be nowhere forbidden ? and how durst ezra , as is supposed , after the captivity , profane so sacred a thing by exposing it to common use ? but granting them yet further , that it was lawful , but not useful to make use of that sacred character ; i demand then , how comes that disuse to continue so punctually till the time of ezra , and that it should never be divulged before ? when there was so great reason to make it common , since the square letters are less operose , more expedite and facile , then the samaritan , which is , when time serves , used as a plea for their great antiquity . but yeilding yet more , that the sacred character was only used for the authentick coppy of the law , which was to decide all differences of other coppies ( which some run to as their last shift ) i appeal to any mans reason , whether this be not the most improbable of all ? for how could such a coppy be the iudge of all others , which could not be read or understood by those who appealed to it ? or was the knowledge and reading of this character peculiar to the high priest , and conveyed down as a cabala from one to another ? but how many incongruities would follow hence , in case one high priest should dye before his son was capable of understanding the letters , and so that sacred treasure must needs be lost ; or had they it all by inspiration , and understood the sacred character by urim and thummim ? thus every way , this opinion among the iews is pressed with inconveniencies , but it was most suitable to the heathens priests to maintain a meum and tuum between their own character and the vulgar , for hereby they prohibited all prying into their mysteries by any , but those who had the same interest with themselves , and therefore were unlikely to discover any thing that might lessen their reputation . whereas , had there been nothing but truth in their records , or that truth had been for their interest , what need had there been of so great reservedness and privacy ? but when the discovery of truth would undeceive the world , it was their interest to lock it up , and to give out such things to the vulgar , which might advance themselves and please them ; which artifices of theirs give no small ground to question the credibility of their histories . especially if we add what we promised in the last place , to shew the want of credibility in the report of ancient times among them , which was not only defectiveness , and uncertainty , but apparent partiality to themselves , and inconsistency with each other . how evident is it in all these nations we have spoken to , how much they strive to inhance the reputation of their own nation , and to that end blend the history of other nations with their own , to make theirs seem the greater . how much do the aegyptians tell us of the excellency of their ancient laws and government ? and yet how evident is it , from their own histories , that no such laws were observed by their kings as they speak of ? can we think that such kings as chemmis and the rest of them , who built those vast structures of the pyramids , and imployed myriads of men for so many years for the doing of them , would be content to be so dieted by their laws , as hercataeus and diodorus tell us they were to be ? nay it seems to be very suspitious , that the great enterprises of their famous sesoosis are meerly fabulous , and some think an attributing to themselves , what was done by the assyrian emperour in his time . by which we may guess , what to think of the great conquests of osiris and isis , and their subduing almost the whole world to them . and it is most evident how partial the aegyptians are in dissembling their greatest losses ; as is clear in the story of the conquest of pharao neco by n●buchadnezzar , jer. . . of which there is not the least mention in herodotus or diodorus ; but on the contrary , herodotus tells us this necos , as he calls him , conquered the syrians at magdalos ; and the story of vaphres and amasis in him seems to be only a disguise of nebuchadnezzars conquest ; only lest men should think them conquered by a forraigner , they make amasis to be an aegyptian plebeian . again , what a vast number of cities doth diodorus tell us of that were in aegypt in their eldest times ? no less then . when yet himself confesseth in the time of ptolomaeus lagi there were reckoned but somewhat above cities , and then aegypt was the most populous that ever it had been . how probable doth this sound , that in those eldest times such vast multitudes of cities should be erected ? but the truth is , it is not unsuitable to their opinion of the production of the first men , which were caused , say they , by the heat of sun , and the mud of nilus ; and it is certain then they might be the most populous nation in the world : for there could be no defect as to either efficient or material cause , there being mud enough to produce myriads , and the sun hot enough to impregnate it . the partiality of other nations hath been already discoursed of in our passage ; and so likewise hath their mutual repugnancy to , and inconsistency with each other : which yet might be more fully manifested from the contradictions in reference to the aegyptian history between manetho , herodotus , diodorus , dicaearchus , eratosthenes , and all who have spoken of it ; as to the assyrian empire between herodotus , diodorus , and iulius africanus ; as to the persian empire between herodotus and ctesias , and those in no inconsiderable things , as is evident in photius his excerpta out of him . among the graecians we have already discovered it as to their history and geography ; and if we should enter into their theology , and the history of that , we should find their other differences inconsiderable , if compared with these . of which we may partly make a conjecture by the incredible spight that is born by the gravest greek authors , as strabo , plutarch , and others , towards euemerus siculus , for offering to deliver the history of iupiter , which he saith , he transcribed from the golden pillar in the temple of jupiter triphyllius in panchetis . but i suppose enough hath been discovered already , to prove that there is no credibility in any of those heathen histories , which pretend to give an account of ancient times , there being in all of them so much defect and insufficiency , so great uncertainty and confusion , so much partiality and inconsistency with each other . it remains now that i proceed to demonstrate the credibility of that account of ancient times , which is reported in the sacred scriptures , which will be the second part of our task . book ii. chap. i. the certainty of the writings of moses . in order to the proving the truth of scripture-history , several hypotheses laid down . the first concerns the reasonableness of preserving the ancient history of the world in some certain records , from the importance of the things , and the inconveniences of meer tradition or constant revelation . the second concerns the certainty that the records under moses his name , were undoubtedly his . the certainty of a matter of fact enquired into in general , and proved as to this particular by universal consent , and settling a common-wealth upon his laws . the impossibility of an imposture as to the writings of moses demonstrated . the plea's to the contrary largely answered . having sufficiently demonstrated the want of credibility in the account of ancient times , given by those nations who have made the greatest pretence to learning and antiquity in the world , we now proceed to evince the credibility and certainty of that account which is given us in sacred screptures : in order to which i shall premise these following hypotheses . it stands to the greatest reason , that an account of things so concerning and remarkable , should not be always left to the uncertainty of an oral tradition ; but should be timely entred into certain records , to be preserved to the memory of posterity . for it being of concernment to the world , in order to the establishment of belief as to future things , to be fully setled in the belief that all things past were managed by divine providence , there must be some certain records of former ages , or else the mind of man will be perpetually hovering in the greatest uncertainties : especially where there is such a mutual dependence and concatenation of one thing with another , as there is in all the scripture-history . for take away but any one of the main foundations of the mosaical history , all the superstructure will be exceedingly weakened , if it doth not fall quite to the ground . for mans obligation to obedience unto god , doth necessarily suppose his original to be from him ; his hearkening to any proposals of favour from god , doth suppose his apostacy and fall ; gods designing to shew mercy and favour to fallen man , doth suppose that there must be some way whereby the great creator must reveal himself as to the conditions on which fallen man may expect a recovery ; the revealing of these conditions in such a way whereon a suspicious ( because guilty ) creature may firmly rely , doth suppose so certain a recording of them , as may be least liable to any suspicion of imposture or deceit . for although nothing else be in its self necessary from god to man , in order to his salvation , but the bare revealing in a certain way the terms on which he must expect it ; yet considering the unbounded nature of divine goodness , respecting not only the good of some particular persons , but of the whole society of mankind , it stands to the greatest reason that such a revelation should be so propounded , as might be with equal certainty conveyed to the community of mankind . which could not with any such evidence of credibility be done by private and particular revelations ( which give satisfaction only to the inward senses of the partakers of them ) as by a publick recording of the matters of divine revelation by such a person who is enabled to give the world all reasonable satisfaction , that what he did was not of any private design of his own head , but that he was deputed to it by no less then divine authority . and therefore it stands to the highest reason , that where divine revelation is necessary for the certain requiring of assent , the matter to be believed should have a certain uniform conveyance to mens minds , rather then that perpetually new revelations should be required for the making known of those things ; which being once recorded are not lyable to so many impostures as the other way might have been under pretended revelations . for then men are not put to a continual tryal of every person pretending divine revelation , as to the evidences which he brings of divine authority , but the great matters of concernment being already recorded and attested by all rational evidence as to the truth of the things , their minds therein rest satisfied without being under a continual hesitancy , lest the revelation of one should contradict another . for supposing that god had left the matters of divine revelation unrecorded at all , but left them to be discovered in every age by a spirit of prophecy , by such a multitude as might be sufficient to inform the world of the truth of the things ; we cannot but conceive that an innumerable company of croaking enthusiasts would be continually pretending commissions from heaven , by which the minds of men would be left in continual distraction , because they would have no certain infallible rules given them , whereby to difference the good and evil spirit from each other . but now supposing god to inspire some particular persons , not only to reveal , but to record divine truths , then what ever evidences can be brought attesting a divine revelation in them , will likewise prove the undoubted certainty and infallibility of those writings , it being impossible that persons employed by a god of truth should make it their design to impose upon the world ; which gives us a rational account , why the wise god did not suffer the history of the world to lye still unrecorded , but made choice of such a person to record it , who gave abundant evidence to the world that he acted no private design , but was peculiarly employed by god himself for the doing of it , as will appear afterwards . besides , we finde by our former discourse , how lyable the most certain tradition is to be corrupted in progress of time , where there are no standing records , though it were at first delivered by persons of undoubted credit . for we have no reason to doubt , but that the tradition of the old world , the flood and the consequences of it , with the nature and worship of the true god , were at first spread over the greatest part of the world in its first plantations , yet we see how soon for want of certain conveyance , all the antient tradition was corrupted and abused into the greatest idolatry . which might be less wondered at , had it been only in those parts which were furthest remote from the seat of those grand transactions ; but thus we finde it was even among those families , who had the nearest residence to the place of them , and among those persons who were not far off in a lineal descent from the persons mainly concerned in them ; as is most evident in the family out of which abraham came ( who was himself the tenth from noah ) yet of them it is said , that they served other gods. how unlikely then was it , that this tradition should be afterwards preserved entire , when the people god had peculiarly chosen to himself , were so mixed among the aegyptians , and so prone to the idolatries of the nations round about them , and that even after god had given them a written law attested with the greatest miracles ? what would they have done then , had they never been brought forth of aegypt by such signs and wonders , and had no certain records left to preserve the memory of former ages ? thus we see how much it stands to the greatest reason , that so memorable things should be digested into sacred records . we have as great certainty that moses was the author of the records going under his name , as we can have of any matter of fact done at so great a distance of time from us . we are to consider that there are two very distinct questions to be thought of concerning a divine revelation to any person at a considerable distance of time from us ; and those are what evidences can be given that the matters recorded are of a true divine revelation ; and what evidence we have of the truth of the matter of fact , that such things were recorded by such persons . they who do not carefully distinguish between these two questions , will soon run themselves into an inextricable labyrinth , when they either seek to understand themselves , or explain to others the grounds on which they believe the scriptures to be the word of god. the first step in order to which must be the proving the undoubted certainty of the matter of fact , or the truth of the history , that such persons were really existent , and did either do or record the things we speak of : after this , succeeds the other to prove , not only the real existence of the things , but that the persons who recorded the things were assisted by an infallible spirit ; then there can be no reason at all to doubt , but those records are the word of god. the first of these , is , that which at present we enquire after , the certainty of the matter of fact , that the records under the name of moses were undoubtedly his . and here it will be most unreasonable for any to seek for further evidence and demonstration of it , then the matter to be proved is capable of . but if they should , i suppose we have sufficient reason to demonstrate the folly of such a demand , and that on these accounts . . whoever yet undertook to bring matters of fact into mathematical demonstrations , or thought he had ground to question the certainty of any thing that was not proved in a mathematical way to him ? who would ever undertake to prove that archimedes was kild at syracuse by any of the demonstrations he was then about ? or that euclide was the undoubted author of the geometry under his name ? or do men question these things for want of such demonstrations ? yet this is all we at present desire , but the same liberty here which is used in any thing of a like nature . . i demand of the person who denyes this moral certainty to be sufficient for an assent , whether he doth question every thing in the world , which he was not present at the doing of himself ? if he be peremptorily resolved to believe nothing but what he sees , he is fit for nothing but a voyage to anticyrae , or to be soundly purged with hellebore to free him from those cloudy humours that make him suspect the whole world to be an imposture . but we cannot suppose any man so destitute of reason , as ●o question the truth of every matter of fact which he doth not see himself ; if he doth then firmly believe any thing , there must be supposed sufficient grounds to induce him to such a belief . and then what ground can there be to question the certainty of such things which have as great evidence as any of those things have which he most firmly believes ? and this is all we desire from him . . do we not see that the most concerning and weighty actions of mens lives , are built on no other foundation then this moral certainty ? yet men do not in the least question the truth of the thing they rely upon : as is most evident in all titles to estates derived from ancestors , either by donation or purchase : in all trading which goes upon the moral certainty , that there are such places as the indyes , or france , or spain , &c. in all journyings , that there is such a place , as that i am going to , and this is the way thither ; for these we have but this moral certainty ; for the contrary to both these are possible , and the affirmatives are indemonstrable . in eating and drinking there is a possibility of being poisoned by every bit of meat or drop of drink ; do we therefore continually doubt , whether we shall be so or no ? chiefly this is seen in all natural affection and piety in children towards parents , which undoubtedly suppose the truth of that , which it was impossible they could be witnesses of themselves ; viz. their coming out of their mothers wombs . and doth any one think this sufficient ground to question his mother , because the contrary is impossible to be demonstrated to him ? in short , then , either we must destroy all historical faith out of the world , and believe nothing ( though never so much attested ) but what we see our selves , or else we must acknowledge , that a moral certainty is a sufficient foundation for an undoubted assent , not such a one cui non potest subesse falsum , but such a one cui non subest dubium , i. e. an assent undoubted , though not infallible . by which we see what little reason the a●heist on one side can have to question the truth of the scriptures , to the history of it ; and what little ground the papists on the other side have to make a pretence of the necessity of infallibility , as to the proposal of such things where moral certainty is sufficient , that is , to the matter of f●ct . which i now come to prove , as to the subject in hand ; viz. that the writings of moses are undoubtedly his , which i prove by a twofold argument : . an universal consent of persons , who were best able to know the truth of the things in question . . the setling of a commonwealth upon the laws delivered by moses . . the universal consent of persons most capable of judging in the case in hand . i know nothing the most scrupulous and inquisitive mind can possibly desire in order to satisfaction , concerning any matter of fact beyond an universal consent of such persons who have a greater capacity of knowing the truth of it then we can have . and those are all such persons who have lived nearest those times when the things were done , and have best understood the affairs of the times when the things were pretended to be done . can we possibly conceive , that among the people of the iews , who were so exceedingly prone to transgress the law of moses , and to fall into idolatry , but if there had been any the least suspition of any falsity or imposture in the writing of moses , the ringleaders of their revolts would have sufficiently promulged it among them , as the most plausible plea to draw them off from the worship of the true god ? can we think that a nation and religion so maligned as the iewish were , could have escaped discovery , if there had been any deceit in it , when so many lay in wait continually to expose them to all contumelies imaginable ? nay , among themselves in their frequent apostacies , and occasions given for such a pretence , how comes this to be never heard of , nor in the least questioned , whether the law was undoubtedly of moses his writing or no ? what an excellent plea would this have been for ieroboams calves in dan and bethel ; for the samaritans temple on mount gerizim , could any the least suspition have been raised among them , concerning the aut bentickness of the fundamental records of the iewish commonwealth ? and which is most observable , the iews who were a people strangely suspitious and incredulous , while they were fed and clothed with miracles , yet could never find ground to question this . nay , and moses himself , we plainly see , was hugely envied by many of the israelites even in the wilderness , as is evident in the conspiracy of corah and his complices , and that on this very ground , that he took too much upon him ; how unlikely then is it , that amidst so many enemies he should dare to venture any thing into publick records , which was not most undoubtedly true , or undertake to prescribe a law to oblige the people to posterity ? or that after his own age any thing should come out under his name , which would not be presently detected by the emulato●rs of his glory ? what then , is the thing it self incredible ? surely not , that moses should write the records we speak of . were not they able to understand the truth of it ? what ? not those , who were in the same age , and conveyed it down by a certain tradition to posterity ? or did not the israelites all constantly believe it ? what ? not they , who would sooner part with their lives and fortunes , then admit any variation or alteration as to their law ? well , but if we should suppose the whole iewish nation partial to themselves , and that out of honour to the memory of so great a person as moses , they should attribute their ancient laws and records to him : which is all that infidelity its self can imagine in this case : yet this cannot be with any shadow of reason pretended . for , . who were those persons , who did give out this law to the iews under moses his name ? certainly they , who undertake to contradict that which is received by common consent , must bring stronger and clearer evidence then that on which that consent is grounded ; or else their exceptions deserve to be rejected with the highest indignation . what proof can be then brought , that not only the iewish nation , but the whole christian world hath been so lamentably befooled to believe those things with an undoubted assent , which are only the contrivances of some cunning men ? . at what time could these things be contrived ? either while the memory of moses and his actions were remaining , or afterwards . first , how could it possibly be , when his memory was remaining ? for then all things were so fresh in their memories , that it was impossible a thing of this universal nature could be forged of him . if after , then i demand , whether the people had observed the law of moses before or no ? if not , then they must certainly know it at the time of its promulgation to be counterfeit , for had it been from moses , it would have been observed before their times ; if it was observed before , then either continually down from the time of moses , or not ? if continually down , then it was of moses his doing , if we suppose him to have had that authority among the people which the objection supposeth ; if not , then still the nearer moses his time , the more difficult such a counterfeiting could be ; because the constitutions which moses had left among them , would have remained in their memories , whereby they would easily reject all pretences and counterfeits . . how can we conceive the nation of the iews would have ever embraced such a law , had it not been of moses his enacting among them in that state of time when he did ? for then the people were in fittest capacity to receive a law , being grown a great people , and therefore necessary to have laws ; newly delivered from bondage , and therefore wanting laws of their own ; and entring into a setled state of commonwealth , which was the most proper season of giving laws . these considerations make it so clear , that it is almost impossible to conceive the nation of the iews could have their laws given to them but at the time of their being in the wilderness , before they were setled in canaan . for suppose we at present , to gratifie so far the objection , that these laws were brought forth long after the constitution of the government and the national settlement , under moses his name ; how improbable , nay how impossible is it to alter the fundamental laws of a nation after long settlement ? what confusion of interests doth this bring ? what disturbance among all sorts of people , who must be disseised of their rights , and brought to such strange unwonted customs so seemingly against their interests , as many of the constitutions among the iews were ? for can we imagine , that a people alwayes devoted to their own interest , would after it had been quietly setled in their land , by constitutions after the custom of other nations , presently under a pretence of a coppy of laws found ( that were pretended to be given by one in former ages of great esteem , called moses ) throw open all their former inclosures , and part with their former laws for these of which they have no evidence , but the words of those that told it them ? we have a clear instance for this among the romans ; although there were great evidence given of the undoubted certainty , that the books found in numa's grave by petilius were his , yet because they were adjudged by the senate to be against the present laws , they were without further enquiry adjudged to be burnt . was not here the greatest likelyhood that might be , that these should have taken place among the romans , for the great veneration for wisdom which numa was in among them , and the great evidence that these were certain remainders of his , wherein he gave a true account of the superstitions in use among them ? yet lest the state should be unsetled by it , they were prohibited so much as a publick view , when the praetor had sworn they were against the established laws . can we then conceive the iewish nation would have embraced so burdensome and ceremonious a law as moses's was , had it been brought among them in such a way as the books of numa , though with all imaginable evidence , that it was undoubtedly his , especially when they were engaged to the observation of some laws or customs already , by which their commonwealth had been established ? and with all these laws of moses seeming so much against the interest and good husbandry of a nation , as all the neighbour nations thought , who for that accused them to be an i●le and slothful people , as they judged by their resting wholly one day in seven , the great and many solemn feasts they had , the repairing of all the males to jerusalem thrice a year ; the sabbatical years , years of iubilee , &c. these things were apparently against the interest of such a nation , whose great subsistence was upon pasturage and agriculture . so that it is evident these laws respected not the outward interest of the nation , and so could not be the contrivance of any politicians among them , but did immediately aim at the honour of the god whom they served , for whom they were to part even with their civil interests : the doing of which by a people generally taken notice of for a particular love of their own concernments , is an impregnable argument these laws could not take place among them , had they not been given by moses at the time of their unsettlement , and that their future settlement did depend upon their present observation of them ; which is an evidence too that they could be of no less then divine original ? which was more then i was to prove at present . . were not these writings undoubtedly moses's ; whence should the neighbour nations about the iews notwithstanding the hatred of the iewish religion , retain so venerable an opinion of the wisdom of moses ? the aegyptians accounted him one of their priests ( which notes the esteem they had of his learning ) as appears by the testimonies produced out of chaeremon and man●tho by iosephus . diodorus siculus speaks of him with great respect among the famous legislatours , and so doth strabo , who speaks in commendation of the religion established by him . the testimony of longinus is sufficiently known , that moses was no man of any vulgar wit ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) chalcidius calls him sapientissimus moses ( although i must not dissemble that chalcidius hath been , i think , undeservedly reckoned among heathen writers , though he comments on plato's timaeus , it being most probable that he was a christian platonist , which might more probably make vaninus call him circumforaneum blateronem ) but though we exempt chalcidius out of the number of those heathens , who have born testimony to the wisdom of moses , yet there are number enough besides him produced by iustin martyr , cyrill , and others , whose evidence is clear and full to make us undoubtedly believe , that there could never have been so universal and uninterrupted a tradition concerning the writings and laws of moses , had they not been certainly his , and conveyed down in a continual succession from his time to our present age . which will be yet more clear , if we consider in the second place , that the national constitution and setlement of the iews , did depend on the truth of the laws and writings of moses . can we have more undoubted evidence , that there were such persons as solon , ly●urgus , and numa , and that the laws bearing their names were theirs , then the history of the several commonwealths of ath●ns , sparta , and rome , who were governed by those laws ? when writings are not of general concernment , they may be more easily counterfeited ; but when they concern the rights , priviledges , and government of a nation , there will be enough whose interest will lead them to prevent impostures . it is no easie matter to forge a magna charta and to invent laws ; mens caution and prudence is never so quick sighted as in matters which concern their estates and freeholds . the general interest lyes contrary to such impostures , and therefore they will prevent their obtaining among them . now the laws of moses are incorporated into the very republick of the iews , and their subsistence and government depends upon them , their religion and laws are so interwoven one with the other , that one cannot be broken off from the other . their right to their temporal possessions in the land of canaan depends on their owning the soveraignty of god who gave them to them ; and on the truth of the history recorded by moses concerning the promises made to the patriarchs . so that on that account it was impossible those laws should be counterfeit on which the welfare of a nation depended , and according to which they were governed ever since they were a nation . so that i shall now take it to be sufficiently proved , that the writings under the name of moses were undoubtedly his ; for none , who acknowledge the laws to have been his , can have the face to deny the history , there being so necessary a connexion between them ; and the book of genesis being nothing else but a general and very necessary introduction to that which sollows . chap. ii. moses his certain knowledge of what he writ . the third hypothesis concerns the certainty of the matter of moses his history ; that gradually proved : first , moses his knowledge cleared , by his education , and experience , and certain information . his education in the wisdom of aegypt ; what that was . the old egyptian learning enquired into ; the conveniences for it of the egyptian priests . moses reckoned among them for his knowledge . the mathematical , natural , divine , and moral learning of egypt : their political wisdom most considerable . the advantage of moses above the greek philosophers , as to wisdom and reason . moses himself an eye-witness of most of his history : the certain uninterrupted tradition of the other part among the iews , manifested by rational evidence . having thus far cleared our way , we come to the third hypothesis , which is , there are as manifest proofs of the undoubted truth and certainty of the history recorded by moses , as any can be given concerning any thing which we yeild the firmest assent unto : here it must be considered , that we proceed in a way of rational evidence to prove the truth of the thing in hand , as to which , if in the judgement of impartial persons the arguments produced be strong enough to convince an unbiassed mind ; it is not material , whether every rangling atheist will sit down contented with them . for usually persons of that inclination rather then judgement , are more resolved against light , then inquisitive after it , and rather seek to stop the chinks at which any light might come in , then open the windows for the free and chearfull entertainment of it . it will certainly be sufficient to make it appear , that no man can deny the truth of that part of scripture which we are now speaking of , without offering manifest violence to his own faculties , and making it appear to the world , that he is one wholly forsaken of his own reason : which will be satisfactorily done , if we can clear these things : first , that it was morally impossible moses should be ignorant of the things he undertook to write of , and so be deceived himself . secondly , that it was utterly impossible he should have any design in deceiving others in reporting it . thirdly , that it is certain from all rational evidence , that he hath not d●ceived the world , but that his history is undoubtedly true . first , that it was morally impossible moses should be deceived hims●lf , or be ignorant of the things which he writ of . two things are requisite to prevent a mans being deceived himself . first , that he be a person of more then ordinary judgement , wisdom , and knowledge . secondly , that we have sufficient information concerning the things he undertakes to write of . if either of these two be wanting , it is possible for a man of integrity to be deceived ; for an honest heart hath not alwayes an urim and thummim upon it ; nor is fide●●ty alwayes furnished with the acutest intellectuals . the simplicity of the dove is as lyable to be deceived its self , as the subtilty of the serpent is to deceive others ; but where the wisdom of the serpent is , to prevent being deceived , and the doves innocency in not deceiving others , there are all the qualifications can be desired in any one who undertakes only to tell the truth . first , then that moses was a person of a great understanding , and sufficiently qualified to put a difference between truth and falshood , will appear ; first , from the ingenuity of his education ; secondly , from the ripeness of his judgement and greatness of his experience when he penned these things . first , we begin with his education . and here we require at present no further assent to be given to what is reported concerning moses in scripture , then what we give to plutarchs lives , or any other relations concerning the actions of persons who lived in former ages . two things then we find recorded in scripture concerning moses his education ; that he was brought up in the court of aegypt , and that he was skild in all the learning of the aegyptians ; and these two will abundantly prove the ingenuity of hi● education , viz. that he was a person both conversant in civil affairs , and acquainted with the abstruser parts of all the aegyptian wisdom . and i confess there is nothing to me which doth advance so much the repute of the antient aegyptian learning , as that the spirit of god in scripture should take so much notice of it , as to set forth a person ( otherwise renowned for greater accomplishments ) by his skill in this . for if it be below the wisdom of any ordinary person , to set forth a person by that which in its self is no matter of commendation , how much less can we imagine it of that infinite wisdom which inspired stephen in that apology which he makes for himself against the libertines , who charged him with contempt of moses and the law ? and therefore certainly this was some very observable thing , which was brought in as a singular commendation of moses , by that person whose design was to make it appear how high an esteem he had of him . and hence it appears that learning is not only in its self a great accomplishment of humane nature , but that it ought to be looked upon with veneration , even in those who have excellencies of a higher nature to commend them . if a pearl retains its excellency when it lyes upon a dunghill , it can certainly lose nothing of its lustre by being set in a crown of gold ; if learning be commendable in an aegyptian , it is no less in moses , where it is enameled with more noble perfections , then of it self it can reach unto . all the question is , whither the antient learning of the aegyptians was such as might be supposed to improve the reason and understanding of men to such an height , as thereby to make them more capable of putting a difference between truth and falshood ? whether it were such an overflowing nilus as would enrich the understandings of all those who were in a capacity to receive its streams ? the truth is , there want not grounds of suspicion , that the old aegyptian learning was not of that elevation which the present distance of our age makes us apt to think it was . and a learned man hath in a set discourse endeavoured to shew the great defects that there were in it ; neither can it , i think , be denyed , but according to the reports we have now concerning it , some parts of their learning were frivilous , others obscure , a great deal magical , and the rest short of that improvement , which the accession of the parts and industry of after ages gave unto it . but yet it is again as evident , that some parts of learning were invented by the aegyptians , others much improved , and that the greeks did at first set up with the stock they borrowed out of aegypt , and that learning chiefly flourished there , when there was ( i had almost said ) an aegyptian darkness of ignorance overspreading the face of greece as well as other nations . which will appear by these considerations , the great antiquity of their repute for learning , the great advantages they had for promoting it , and the parts of learning most in use among them . this , though it may seem a digression here , will yet tend to promote our design , by shewing thereby how qualified and accomplished moses was to deliver to the world an history of antient times . if we believe macrobius , there was no people in the world could ●ye for learning with the aegyptians , who makes aegypt in one place , the mother of all arts , and in another the aegyptians omnium philosophiae disciplinarum parentes , the fathers of the philosophick sciences ; he derives elsewhere the original of all astronomy from them , quos constat primos omnium coelum metiri , & scrutari ausos : though it be more probable that the nativity even of astronomy it self , was first calculated by the chald●ans , from whom it was conveyed to the aegyptians . he likewise appropriates all divine knowledge to them , where he saith they were soli rerum divinarum conscii , and after calls aegypt , divinarum omnium disciplinarum compotem . it is sufficiently notorious what great repute the aegyptian learning hath been in , with some in our latter times , in that our chymists look upon it as the greatest honour to their profession , that they think they can claim kindred of the old aegyptian learning , and derive the pedigree of their chymistry from the old aegyptian hermes . but that vain pretence is sufficiently refuted by the fore-mentioned learned man conringius , in his tract on this subject , de hermeticâ medicinâ . franciscus patricius professeth himself so great an admirer of the old aegyptian learning , that he thought it would be no bad exchange , if the peripatetick philosophy were extruded , and the old aegyptian received instead of it . but the world is now grown wiser , then to receive his hermes trismegistus for the author of the old aegyptian philosophy , the credit of his author being for ever blasted , and the doctrine contained in the books under his name , manifested to be a meer c●nto , a confused mixture of the christian , platonick , and aegyptian doctrine together . so that we could hardly maintain the justness of the repute of the antient aegyptian learning from any thing now extant of it ; but yet we see no reason to question it , especially since it is so honourably spoken of in sacred writ , and seems in it to have been made the standard and measure of humane wisdom . for which we have this observable testimony , that when the wisdom of solomon is spoken of with the greatest advantage and commendation , it is set forth with this character , that it exceeded the wisdom of all the children of the east countrey , and all the wisdom of aegypt . whence it is most natural and easie to argue , that certainly their learning must be accounted the greatest at that time in the world , or else it could not have been inferred , that solomon was wiser then all men , because his wisdom excelled theirs , unless we suppose their wisdom to have been the greatest in that age of the world , when the wisdom of the graecians ( although in that time homer is supposed to flourish ) was not thought worthy the taking notice of . we see from hence then , as from an irrefragable testimony , that the wisdom of the aegyptians antiently was no trivial pedantry , nor meer superstitious and magical rites , but that there was some thing in it solid and substantial , or it had not been worth triumphing over by the wisdom of solomon : it being true of that , what lipsius faith of the roman empire , quicquid dignum vinci videbatur ; vicit , caetera non tam non potuit quam contempsit ; it was an argument of some great worth , that it was over-top'd and conquered by it . thus we see how just the repute of the antient aegyptian learning is from testimony , and we shall find as great reason for it , when we con●ider the great advantages the aegyptians had for promoting of learning among them . two waies men come to knowledge , either by tradition from others , or by observation of their own ; what the aegyptians had the first way , will be spoken to afterwards ; we now consider the latter of these . all knowledge arising from observation , must be either of those sciences which immediately conduce to the benefit of mens lives , or such whose end is to improve mens rational faculties in the knowledge of things . the former necessity will put men upon the finding out , the latter require secessum & otia , freedom from other imployments , a mind addicted to them , and industry in the study of them , and a care to preserve their inventions in them . the study of geometry among the aegyptians , owed its original to necessity ; for the river nile being swelled with the showers falling in aethiopia , and thence annually over-flowing the countrey of aegypt , and by its violence overturning all the marks they had to distinguish their lands , made it necessary for them upon every abatement of the flood to survey their lands , to find out every one his own by the quantity of the ground upon the survey . the necessity of which put them upon a more diligent enquiry into that study , that thereby they might attain to some exactness in that , which was to be of such necessary , constant and perpetual use : thence we find the invention of geometry particularly attributed by herodotus , diodorus , strabo and others , to the aegyptians . this skill of theirs they after improved into a greater benefit , viz the conveying the water of nile into those places where it had not overflown to so great a height , as to give them hopes of an ensuing plenty ; which they did by the artificial cutting of several channels for that end , wherein , saith strabo , the aegyptians art and industry out-went nature its self . by this likewise they observed the height of the over-flowing of the river , whereby they knew what harvest to expect the following year ; which they did by a well near memphis ( from the use of it called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) upon the walls of which were the marks of several cubits , which they observe and publish it to all , that they might provide themselves accordingly . we see what grounds there are , even from profit and advantage , to make us believe that the aegyptians were skilled in geometry , and the knowledge relating thereto . and for the promoting of all other knowledge whose end is contemplation , the very constitution of their commonwealth did much conduce thereto : for thereby it was proved that they should always be a sufficient number of persons freed srom all other employments , who might devote themselves to a sedulous enquiry into the natures of things . such were the aegyptian priests , who by the peculiar nature of the aegyptian superstitions were freed from that burdensome service of sacrificing beasts , which the priests of other nations were continually employed about , and so they enjoyed not only an easie but a very honourable employment ; for they were the persons of the greatest honour , esteem , and authority among the aegyptians , of which rank , as far as i can find , all were accounted , who were not souldiers , husbandmen , or artificers . for strabo mentions no nobility at all in aegypt distinct from the priests ; for he divides the whole commonwealth into souldiers , husbandmen , and priests . and telling us that the other two were employed about matters of war , and the kings revenues in peace , he adds , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the priests minded the study of philosophy and astronomy , and conversed most with their kings : and after , speaking of their kings being studied in their arts as well as others of the priests , he adds , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , with whom they spent most of their lives . agreeably to this plutarch tells us , that the kings themselves were often priests ; and adds out of hecataeus , that the kings used to drink wine by measure , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because they were priests ; for as he saith , the kings of aegypt were always chosen either out of the rank of priests or souldiers , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; those two orders being of the greatest honour , the one for valour , and the other for wisdom ; and if the king were chosen out of the souldiers , he was presently entred among the priests , to learn their mystical sciences . diodorus indeed seems to reckon some great persons after the priests , and distinct from the souldiery ; but if he means by these any other then some of the chief of the other two professions , i must say as causabon doth in another case of diodorus , sanè strabonis anctoritas mult is siculis apud me praevalet . diodorus his testimony is not to be weighed with strabo's . from hence we may understand the reason why that potiphera , whose daughter ioseph married , is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which some render the priest , others the prince of on ; but these two we see are very consistent , their priests being their great princes ; and heliopolis , or on , of which potipherah was prince or priest , being the chief seat and university of the priests of aegypt . now it is evident from clemens alexandrinus , that the aegyptians did not communicate their mysteries promiscuously to all , but only to such as were in succession to the crown , or else to those of the priest and their children , who were most apt and fit for them , both by their dyet , instruction , and family . for this was unalterably observed among them , that there was a continued succession of a profession in their several families , both of priests , souldiers , and husbandmen , whereby they kept their several orders without any mixture or confusion , which is confessed both by herodotus and diodorus : so that by this constitution learning was among them confined to the priests , which highly advanceth the probability of that tradition , preserved among the aegyptians concerning moses ( which likewise strongly proves our present design ) viz. manetho's records , as iosephus tells us , that moses was one of the priests at heliopolis , and that his name among them was osarsiphus , who changing his name , was called moses ; and in the time of amenophis conducted the leprous people out of aegypt ( so the aegyptians out of their hatred of the israelites call them . ) and chaeremon , another aegyptian priest in the same author , calls moses a scribe , and ioseph ( by whom probably he means ioshua ) a sacred scribe , and saith , that the aegyptian name of moses was tisithen , and of ioseph peteleph . now this tradition did in all probability arise from the repute of moses his learning and wisdom ; which being among them proper to their priests , they thence ascribed that name to him , although probably he might come to the knowledge of all their mysteries , from the relation he had to pharaohs daughter . we come now to consider the parts of the aegyptian learning , in which the scripture tells us moses was skill'd : this by philo iudaeus is branched into arithmetick , geometry , musick , and hicroglyphical philosophy : but sixtus senensis more comprehensively from diodorus , diogenes laertius , and others , divides it into four parts , mathematical , natural , divine , and moral . their skill in the mathematical parts of learning hath been partly shewed already , and might be more largely from that skill in them , which the graecians gained from the aegyptians , as both iamblichus and porphyrie speak of pythagoras , that he gained his skill in geometry chiefly from the aegyptians : for these , as porphyrie saith , of a long time had been very studious of geometry , as the phoenicians of arithmetick , and the chaldaeans of astronomy . but iamblicus ( and i think deservedly ) takes notice of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the difficult access of the aegyptian priests , especially as to acquaintance with their mysteries ; and so strabo calls them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , such who concealed their learning under many symbols , and were not easily drawn to unfold it . and yet we might think the years time which pythayoras is thought to have spent among them , had been enough to have insinuated himself into their utmost acquaintance , and to have drawn from them the knowledge of their greatest mysteries ; but yet we have no great reason to think he did , if if we believe the story in diogenes laertius of his sacrificing an hecatomb for the finding out of that demonstration , which is now contained in the proposition of the first of euclide . yet this did not abate the graecians esteem of the aegyptians mathematical learning ; for in plato's time eudoxus cnidius went into aegypt on purpose to acquire it there ; and democritus his boast , that none of the arsepedonaptae in aegypt ( so their priests were called , as clemens alexandrinus and eusebius tell us , who relate the story ) exceeded him in the mathematicks , by which it may be at least inferred , that they were then in greatest esteem for them . their great skill in astronomy is attested by diodorus , strabo , herodotus , and others , and by their finding out the course of the year by the motion of the sun , which was the invention of the heliopolitan priests . how much they valued geography , appears from clemens his description of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or sacred scribe in the solemn procession ; for he was required to be skilled in hieroglyphicks , cosmography , geography , the motions of the planets , the choragraphy of aegypt , and description of the nile . eustathius in his notes on dionysius , attributes the invention of geographical tables to sesostris , who caused the lands he had conquered to be described in tables , and so communicated to the aegyptians , and from them to others . their skill in natural philosophy could not be very great , because of their magick and superstition , whereby they were hindred from all experiments in those natural things which they attributed a divinity to ; but they seem to have been more exact and curious in natural history ; for , any prodigies , or any thing that was anomalous in nature , they did , saith strabo , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , with a great deal of curiosity insert it in their sacred records ; and herodotus adds , that more things of that nature are observed by them then by any other nation ; which , saith he , they not only diligently preserve , but frequently compare together , and from a similitude of prodigies gather a similitude of events . but that which gained the aegyptians the greatest repute abroad , seems to have been their early skill in physick , which is so much spoken of by homer , plato , herodotus , plutarch , diogenes laertius , and others , that it were impertinent troubling a readers patience with the proof of that which is so generally confessed . a great evidence of the antiquity of this study among them is ( if manetho may be so far credited ) that athothis the second king of the first dynasty of the thimites was a physician himself , and writ some books of anatomy ; and the second king of the third dynasty of the memphites , was for his skill in physick honoured among them by the name of aesculapius . pliny affirms it to have been the custom of their kings to cause dead bodies to be dissected , to find out the nature of diseases ; and elsewhere tells us , that the original of physick among them was from the relations of those who by any remedy were cured of any disease , which for a memorial to posterity were recorded in their temples . their hieroglyphical and mystical learning hath made the greatest noise in the world , and hath the least of substance in it ; which whover will not be convinced of without perusal of kirchers oedipus aegyptiacus , will at last find it fully done to his hand by the successess endeavours of that otherwise learned man. i cannot think any rational man could think that study worth his pains , which at the highest can amount but to a conjecture ; and when it is come to that with a great deal of pains , it is nothing but some ordinary and trivial observation . as in that famous hieroglyphick of diospolis , so much spoken of by the ancients , where was a child to express coming into the world , an old man for going out of it , an hawk for god , an hippotamus for hatred , and a crocodile for impudence , and all to express this venerable apothegm , o ye that come into the world , and that go out of it , god hates impudence . and therefore certainly this kind of learning deserves the highest form among the difficiles nugae , and all these hieroglyphicks put together , will make but one good one , and that should be for labour lost . there is yet one part of learning more among them , which the aegyptians are esteemed for , which is the political and civil part of it , which may better be called wisdom then most of the fore-going ; two things speak much the wisdom of a nation ; good laws , and a prudent management of them ; their laws are highly commended by strabo and diodorus ; and it is none of the least commendations of them , that solon and lycurgus borrowed so many of their constitutions from them ; and for the prudent management of their government , as the continuance of their state so long in peace and quietness , is an invincible demonstration of it ; so the report given of them in scripture adds a further testimony to it ; for therein the king of aegypt is called the son of the wise , as well as the son of ancient kings ; and his counsellors are called wise counsellors of pharaoh , and the wise men ; whereby a more then ordinary prudence and policy must be understood . can we now imagine such a person as moses was bred up in all the ingenucus literature of aegypt , conversant among their wisest persons in pharaohs court , having thereby all advantages to improve himself , and to understand the utmost of all that they knew , should not be able to pass a judgement between a meer pr●tence and imposture , and real and important t●uths ? can we think that one who had interest in so great a court , all advantages of raising himself therein , should willingly forsake all the pleasures and delights at present , all his hopes and advantages for the future , were he not fully perswaded of the certain and undoubted truth of all those things which are recorded in his books ? is it possible a man of ordinary wisdom should venture himself upon so hazardous , unlikely , and dangerous employment , ●s that was moses undertook , which could have no probability of success , but only upon the belief that that god who appeared unto him , was greater then all the gods of aegypt , and could carry on his own design by his own power , maugre all the opposition which the princes of the world could make against it ? and what possible ground can we have to think that such a person who did verily believe the truth of what god revealed unto him , should dare to write any otherwise then as it was revealed unto him ? if there had been any thing repugnant to common reason in the history of the creation , the fall of man , the universal deluge , the propagation of the world by the sons of noah , the history of the patriarchs , had not moses rational faculties as well as we ? nay , had he them not far better improved then any of ours are ? and was not he then able to judge what was suitable to reason , and what not ? and can we think he would then deliver any thing inconsistent with reason or undoubted tradition then , when the aegyptian priests might so readily and plainly have triumphed over him , by discovering the falshood of what he wrote ? thus we see that moses was as highly qualified as any of the acutest heathen philosophers could be , for discerning truth from falshood ; nay , in all probability he far excelled the most renowned of the graecian philosophers in that very kind of learning wherewith they made so great noise in the world , which was originally aegyptian , as is evident in the whole series of the graecian philosphers , who went age after age to aegypt to get some scraps of that learning there , which moses could not have but full meals of , because of his high place , great interest , and power in aegypt . and must those hungry philosophers then become the only masters of our reason , and their dictates be received as the s●nse and voice of nature , which they either received from uncertain tradition , or else delivered in opposition to it , that they might be more taken notice of in the world ? must an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be confronted with thus saith the lord ? and a few pitiful symbols vye authority with divine commands ? and ex nihilo nihil fit be sooner believed then in the beginning god created the heavens and the earth ? what irrefragable evidence of reason is that so confident a presumption built upon , when it can signifie nothing without this hypothesis , that there is nothing but matter in the world ; and let this first be proved , and we will never stick to grant the other . i may confidently say the great gullery of the world hath been , taking philosophical dictates for the standard of reason , and unproved hypotheses for certain foundations for our discourse to rely upon . and the seeking to reconcile the mysteries of our faith to these , hath been that whith hath almost destroyed it , and turned our religion into a meer philosophical speculation . but of this elsewhere . we see then that insisting meerly on the accomplishments and rational perfections of the persons who speak , we have more reason to yield credit to moses in his history , then to any philosophers in their speculations . and that which in the next place speaks moses to be a person of wisdom , and judgement , and ability to finde out truth , was his age and experience when he delivered these things to the world . he vented no crude and indigested conceptions , no sudden and temerarious fancies , the usual issues of teeming and juvenile wits ; he lived long enough to have experience to try , and judgement to distinguish a meer outside and varnish , from what was solid and substantial . we cannot then have the least ground of suspition , that moses was any wayes unfit to discern truth from falshood , and therefore was capable of judging the one from the other . but though persons be never so highly accomplisht for parts , learning , and experience , yet if they want due information of the certainty of the things they deliver , they may be still dec●iving themselves ; and if they preserve it for posterity , be guilty of deceiving others . let us now therefore see whether moses had not as great advantages for understanding the truth of his history , as he had judgement to discern it . and concerning all those things contained in the four last books of his , to his own death , it was impossible any should have greater then himself , writing nothing but what he was pars magna himself , of what he saw , and heard , and did ; and can any testimony be desired greater then his whose actions they were , or who was present at the doing of them , and that not in any private way , but in the most publick capacity ? for although private persons may be present at great actions , yet they may be guilty of misrepresenting them , for want of understanding all circumstances precedent , and subsequent , or for want of understanding the designs of the chief instruments of action : but when the person himself , who was the chief in all , shall undertake to write an exact history of it , what evidence can be desired more certain then that is , that there could be no defect as to information concerning what was done ? the only seruple then that can be made , must be concerning the passages of former times which moses relates . and here i doubt not but to make it appear , that insisting only on all that can be desired in a bare historian ( setting aside divine revelation ) he had as true and certain information of the history of those former ages , as any one can have of things at that distance from themselves ; and that is by a certain ●●interrupted tradition of them , which will appear more clear and evident in that nation of which moses was , then in any other nation in the world : and that on these two accounts : first , the undoubted lin●al deseent from father to son in the i●wish nation . secondly , their int●rest lying so much in the preserving this tradition entire . first , that there was a certain unmixed lin●al descent from father to son in the iewish nation : the great ●ause of most of the confusion in the tradition of other nations , was the frequent mixing of several families one with another ; now that god might as it were on purpose satisfie the world of the israelites capacity to preserve the tradition entire , he prohibited their mixture by marriages with the people of other nations and families . so that in moses his time it was a very easie matter to run up their lineal descent as far as the flood , nay up to adam ; for adam conversed sometime with noah ; sem his son was probably living in some part of iacobs time , or isaac's at least ; and how easily and uninterruptedly might the general tradition of the ancient history be continued thence to the time of moses , when the number of families agreeing in this tradition was increased , and withall incorporated by a common ligament of religion ? i demand then , where can we suppose any ignorance or cutting off this general tradition in so continued a succession as here was ? can we imagine that the grand-children of iacob could be ignorant of their own pedigree , and whence they came into egypt ? can we think a thing so late and so remarkable as the account of their coming thither , should be forgotten , which was attended with so many memorable circumstances , especially the selling and advancement of ioseph , whose memory it was impossible should be obliterated in so short a time ? could iacob be ignorant of the country whence his grand-father abraham came ? especially when he lived so long in it himself , and married into that branch of the family that was remaining there , when he had served his uncle laban ? could abraham , when he was cotemporary with sem , be ignorant of the truth of the flood , when sem from whom he derived himself , was one of the persons who escaped it in the ark ? could sem be ignorant of the actions before the flood , when adam the first man , lived some part of his time with noah ? and could noah then be ignorant of the creation , and the fall of man ? thus we see it almost impossible , that any age among them then could be ignorant of the passages of the precedent , which they were so few generations removed from , that they could with ease derive themselves from the first man. what then can we say ? that any of these had a design of deceiving their posterity , and so corrupted the tradition ? but besides , that it could be hardly possible at that time , when there were so many remaining testimonies of former times ; what end can we imagine that any parents should have in thus deceiving their children , or what advantage should come to them by such a deceit ? nay , i shall now manifest in the sicond place , that the whole interest of their children lay in preserving this tradition certain and entire . for their hopes of possessing canaan and title to it , depended upon the promise made to abraham years before ; which would not only keep awake their sense of divine providence , but would make them careful during their bondage to preserve their genealogies , because all the right they could plead to their p●ssessions in canaan , was from their being of abrahams seed . and besides this , on purpose to be a memorial to them of pass●ges between god and abraham , they had in their flesh a badge of circumcision , which would serve to call to mind those transactions which had been between god and their for●-fathers . these things then do fully demonstrate , that insisting only on rational evidence , the israelites were the most certain conservatours of the ancient history of the world ; and can we then think , that moses who was the ruler among them , should not fully understand those things which every israelite could scarce be ignorant of , and might correct the mistakes of moses in his history , if he had been guilty of any such ? these things i suppose have made the first proposition evident , that it was morally impossible moses should be deceived himself , or be ignorant of the things which he reports to others , both because he had abilities sufficient to discover truth from falshood , and sufficient information of the passages of former times . chap. iii. moses his fidelity and integrity proved . moses considered as an historian , and as a lawgiver ; his fidelity in both proved : clear evidences that he had no intent to deceive in his history , freedom from private interest , impartiality in his relations , plainness and perspicuity of stile . as a lawgiver , he came armed with divine authority , which being the main thing , is fixed on to be fully proved from his actions and writings . the power of miracles the great evidence of divine revelation . two grand questions propounded . in what cases miracles may be expected , and how known to be true . no necessity of a constant power of miracles in a church : two cases alone wherein they may be expected . when any thing comes as a law from god , and when a divine law is to be repealed the necessity of miracles in those cases as an evidence of divine revelation asserted . objections answered . no use of miracles when the doctrine is setled and owned by miracles in the first revelation . no need of miracles in reformation of a church . the second proposition contains the proof of moses his fidelity , that he was as far from having any intent to deceive others , as he was being deceived himself . two wayes moses must be considered , as an historian , and as a law-giver ; the only inducement for him to deceive as an historian , must be some particular interest which must draw him aside from an impartial delivery of the truth ; as a law-giver he might deceive , if he pretended divine revelation for those laws which were only the issues of his own brain , that they might be received with a greater veneration among the people , as numa pompilius and others did . now if we prove that moses had no interest to deceive in his history , and had all rational evidence of divine revelation in his laws , we shall abundantly evince the undoubted fidelity of moses in every thing recorded by him . we begin then with his fidelity as an historian ; and it being contrary to the common interest of the world to deceive and be deceived , we have no reason to entertain any suspitions of the veracity of any person where we cannot discern some pec●liar interest that might have a stronger biass upon him then the common interest of the world . for it is otherwise in morals then in naturals ; for in naturals , we see that every thing will leave its proper interest to preserve the common interest of nature ; but in morals , there is nothing more common then deserting the common interest of mankind , to set up a peculiar interest against it : it being the truest description of a politician , that he is one who makes himself the centre , and the whole world his circumference ; that he regards not how much the whole world is abused , if any advantage doth accrue to himself by it . where we see it then the design of any person to advance himself or his posterity , or to set up the credit of the nation whose history he writes , we may have just cause to suspect his partiality , because we then finde a sufficient inducement for such a one to leave the common road of truth , and to fall into the paths of deceit . but we have not the least ground to suspect any such partiality in the history of moses ; for nothing is more clear then that he was free from the ambitious design of advancing himself and his posterity . who notwithstanding the great honour he enjoyed himself , was content to leave his posterity in the meanest sort of attendance upon the tabernacle . and as little have we ground to think he intended to flatter that nation , which he so lively describes , that one would think he had rather an interest to set forth the frowardness , unbelief , unthankfulness , and disobedience of a nation towards a gracious god , then any wayes to inhance their reputation in the world , or to ingratiate himself with them by writing this history of them . nay , and he sets forth so exactly the lesser failings and grosser enormities of all the ancestours of this nation whose acts he records , that any impartial reader will soon acquit him of a design of flattery , when after he hath recorded those faults , he seeks not to extenuate them , or bring any excuse or pretence to palliate them . so that any observing reader may easily take notice , that he was carried on by a higher design then the common people of historians are , and that his drift and scope was to exalt the goodness and favour of god , towards a rebellious and obstinate people . of which there can be no greater nor more lively demonstration , then the history of all the transactions of the iewish nation , from their coming forth of aegypt to their utter ruine and desolation . and moses tells them as from god himself , it was neither for their number , nor their goodness , that god set his love upon them , but he loved them , because he loved them ; i. e. no other account was to be given of his gracious dealing with them , but the freeness of his own bonnty , and the exuberancy of his goodness towards them . nay , have we not cause to admire the ingenuity as well as veracity of this excellent personage , who not only layes so notorious a blot upon the stock of his own family levi , recording so punctually the inhumanity and cruelty of him and simeon in their dealings with the shechemites ; but likewise inserts that curse which was left upon their memory for it by their own father at his decease . and that he might not leave the least suspition of partiality behind him , he hath not done as the statuary did , ( who engraved his own name so artificially in the statue of iupiter , that one should continue as long as the other , ) but what the other intended for the praise of his skill , moses hath done for his ingenuity , that he hath so interwoven the history of his own failings and disobedience with those of the nation , that his spots are like to continue as long as the whole web of his history is like to do . had it been the least part of his design to have his memory preserved with a superstitious veneration among the iews , how easie had it been for him to have left out any thing that might in the least entrench upon his reputation ? but we finde him very secure and careless in that particular ; nay , on the other side , very studious and industrious in depressing the honour and deserts of men , and advancing the power and goodness of god. and all this he doth , not in an affected strain of rhetorick , whose proper work is impetrare fidem mendacio , and as tully somewhere confesseth , to make things seem otherwise then they are , but with that innate simplicity and plainness , and yet withall with that imperatoria brevit as , that majesty and authority , that it is thereby evident he sought not to court acceptance , but to demand belief : nor had any such pittiful design of pleasing his readers with some affected phrases , but thought that truth it self had presence enough with it , to command the submission of our understandings to it . especially when all these were delivered by such a one who came sufficiently armed with all motives of credibility and inducements to assent , by that evidence which he gave , that he was no pretender to divine revelation , but was really imployed as a peculiar instrument of state under the god and ruler of the whole world . which if it be made clear , then all our further doubts must presently cease , and all impertinent disputes be silenced , when the supream majesty appears impowring any person to dictate to the world the laws they must be governed by . for if any thing be repugnant to our rational faculties , that is , that god should dictate any thing but what is most certainly true , or that the governor of the world should prescribe any laws , but such as were most just and reasonable . if we suppose a god , we cannot question veracity to be one of his chiefest attributes , and that it is impossible the god of truth should imploy any , to reveal any thing as from him , but what was undoubtedly true . so that it were an argument of the most gross and unreasonable incredulity , to distrust the certainty of any thing which comes to us with sufficient evidence of divine revelation ; because thereby we shew our distrust of the veracity of god himself . all that we can desire then , is only reasonable satisfactisn concerning the evidence of divine revelation in the person whose words we are to credit , and this our gracious god hath been so far from denying men , that he hath given all rational evidence of the truth of it . for it implying no incongruity at all , to any notions of god or our selves , that god should , when it pleases him , single out some instrument to manifest his will to the world ; our enquiry then leads us to those things which may be proper notes and characters of such a person who is imployed on so high an embassy . and those are chiefly these two , if his actions be such as could not flow from the power of meer natural causes , and if the things he reveals be such as could not proceed from any created understanding . first then , for his actions , these striking most upon our outward senses when they are any thing extraordinary , do transmit along with the impressions of them to the understanding , an high opinion of the person that does them : whereas the meer height of knowledge , or profoundness of things discovered , can have no such present power and influence upon any , but such as are of more raised and inquisitive minds . and the world is generally more apt to suspect its self deceived with words , then it can be with actions ; and hence miracles , or the doing of things above the reach of nature , hath been alwayes embraced as the greatest testimony of divine authority and revelation . for which there is this evident reason , that the course of nature being setled by divine power , and every thing acting there by the force of that power it received at first , it seems impossible that any thing should really alter the series of things , without the same power which at first produced them . this then we take for granted , that where ever such a power appears , there is a certain evidence of a divine presence going along with such a person who enjoyes it . and this is that which is most evident in the actions of moses , both as to the miracles he wrought , both in aegypt and the wilderness , and his miraculous deliverance of the israelites out of aegypt , this latter being as much above the reach of any meerly civil power , as the other above natural . we therefore come to the rational evidence of that divine authority whereby moses acted , which may be gathered from that divine power which appeared in his actions ; which being a matter of so great weight and importance ( it being one of the main bases whereon the evidence of divine revelation , as to us , doth stand ) and withall of so great difficulty and obscurity , ( caused through the preferring some parties in religion , above the common interest of it ) it will require more care and diligence to search what influence the power of miracles hath upon the proving the divine commission of those who do them . whether they are such undoubted credentials , that where ever they are produced , we are presently to receive the persons who bring them , as extraordinary embassadors from heaven , imployed on some peculiar message to the sons of men ? for the full stating of this important question , two things must be cleared : first , in what cases miracles may be expected as credentials to confirm an immediate commission from heaven ? secondly , what rational evidence do attend those miracles , to assure us they are such as they pretend to be ? first , for the cases wherein these miracles are to be expected as inducements to , or confirmations of our faith , concerning the divine imployment of any persons in the world . and here i lay down this as a certain foundation , that a power of miracles is not constantly and perpetually necessary in all those who mannage the affairs of heaven here on earth , or that act in the name of god in the world . when the doctrine of faith is once setled in sacred records , and the divine revelation of that doctrine sufficiently attested , by a power of miracles in the revealers of it , what imaginable necessity or pretext can there be for a contrived power of miracles , especially among such as already own the divine revelation of the scriptures ? to make then a power of working miracles to be constantly resident in the church of god , as one of the necessary notes and characters of it , is to put god upon that necessity which common nature is freed from , viz. of multiplying things without sufficient cause to be given for them ; and to leave mens faith at a stand , when god hath given sufficient testimony for it to rely upon . it is a thing too common and easie to be observed , that some persons out of their eagerness to uphold the interest of their own party , have been fain to establish it upon such grounds , which when they are sufficiently searched to the bottom , do apparently undermine the common and sure foundations whereon the belief of our common christianity doth mainly stand . it were easie to make a large discourse on this subject , whereby we may rip open the wounds that christianity hath received , through the contentions of the several parties of it ; but this imputation cannot with so much reason be fastened on any party , as that which is nailed to a pretended infallible chair ; for which we need no other instance , then this before us . for while the leaders of that party make a power of miracles to be a necessary note of the true church , they unavoidably run men upon this dangerous precipice , not to believe any thing as a matter of faith , where they find not sufficient miracles to convince them that is the true church which propounds it to them . which necessarily follows from their acknowledged principles , for it being impossible according to them , to believe any thing with a divine faith , but what is propounded by the church as an infallible guide , and it being impossible to know which is this infallible guide , but by the notes and characters of it , and one of those notes being a power of miracles , i cannot find out my guide but by this power ; and this power must be present in the church , ( for nothing of former ages concerning faith , as the miracles of christ , his resurrection , &c. is to be believed , but on the churches account ) and therefore where men do not find sufficient conviction from present miracles , to believe the church to be an infallible guide , they must throw off all faith concerning the gospel ; for as good never a whit , as never the better . and therefore it is no wonder at●eism should be so thriving a plant in italy , nay under , if not within the walls of rome it self , where inquisitive persons do daily see the juglings and impostures of priests in their pretended miracles , and from thence are brought to look upon religion its self as a meer imposture , and to think no pope so infallible as he that said , quantum nobis profuit haec de christo fabula ? such horrid consequences do men drive others , if not bring themselves to , when they imploy their parts and industry rather to uphold a corrupt interest , then to promote the belief of the acknowledged principles of christian faith . but as long as we assert no necessity of such a power of miracles to be the note of any true church , nor any such necessity of an infallible guide , but that the miracles wrought by christ and his apostles , were sufficient evidences of a divine spirit in them ; and that the scriptures were recorded by them to be an infallible rule of faith , here we have more clear reason as to the primary motives and grounds of faith , and withall the infallible veracity of god in the scriptures , as the last resolution of faith . and while we assert such an infallible rule of faith , delivered to us by such an unanimous consent from the first delivery of it , and then so fully attested by such uncontroulable miracles , we cannot in the least understand to what end a power of miracles should now serve in the church , especially among those who all believe the scriptures to be the word of god. indeed before the great harvest of converts in the primitive times were brought in , both of iews and gentiles , and the church sully setled in receiving the canon of the scriptures universally , we find god did continue this power among them ; but after the books of the new testament were generally imbraced as the rule of faith among christians , we find them so far from pretending to any such power , that they reject the pretenders to it , such as the donatists were , and plead upon the same accounts as we do now against the necessity of it . we see then no reason in the world for miracles to be continued where the doctrine of faith is setled , as being confirmed by miracles in the first preachers of it . there are only these two cases then , wherein miracles may justly and with reason be expected . first , when any person comes as by an extraordinary commission from god to the world , either to deliver some peculiar message , or to do some more then ordinary service . secondly , when something that hath been before established by divine law , is to be repealed , and some other way of worship established in stead of it . first , when any comes upon an extraordinary message to the world , in the name of , and by commission from god , then it is but reason to require some more then ordinary evidence of such authority . because of the main importance of the duty of giving credit to such a person , and the great sin of being guilty of rejecting that divine authority which appears in him . and in this case we cannot think that god would require it as a duty to believe , where he doth not give sufficient arguments for faith , nor that he will punish persons for such a fault , which an invincible ignorance was the cause of . indeed god doth not use to necessitate faith , as to the act of it , but he doth so clearly propound the object of it , with all arguments inducing to it , as may sufficiently justifie a believers choice in point of reason and prudence , and may leave all unbelievers without excuse . i cannot see what account a man can give to himself of his faith , much less what apology he can make to others for it , unless he be sufficiently convinced , in point of the highest reason , that it was his duty to believe ; and in order to that conviction , there must be some clear evidence given , that what is spoken hath the impress of divine authority upon it . now what convictions there can be to any sober mind concerning divine authority in any person without such a power of miracles going along with him , when he is to deliver some new doctrine to the world to be believed , i confess i cannot understand . for although i doubt not but where ever god doth reveal any thing to any person immediately , he gives demonstrable evidence to the inward senses of the soul , that it comes from himself , yet this inward sense can be no ground to another person to believe his doctrine divine , because no man can be a competent judge of the actings of anothers senses ; and it is impossible to another person to distinguish the actings of the divine spirit from strong impressions of fancy by the force and energy of them . if it be said , that we are bound to believe those , who say they are fully satisfied of their divine commission . i answer , first , this will expose us to all delusions imaginable ; for if we are bound to believe them because they say so , we are bound to believe all which say so ; and none are more confident pretenders to this then the greatest deceivers , as the experience of our age will sufficiently witness . secondly , men must necessarly be bound to believe contradictions ; for nothing more ordinary , then for such confident pretenders to a divine spirit , to contradict one another , and it may be , the same person in a little time contradict himself : and must we still be bound to believe all they say ? if so , no philosophers would be so much in request , as those aristotle disputes against in his metaphysicks , who thought a thing might be , and not be , at the same time . thirdly , the ground of faith at last will be but a meer humane testimony , as far as the person who is to believe is capable of judging of it . for the question being , whether the person i am to believe hath divine authority for what he saith , what ground can i have to believe that he hath so ? must i take his bare affirmation for it ? if so , then a meer humane testimony must be the ground of divine faith , and that which it is last resolved into ; if it be said that i am to believe the divine authority by which he speaks , when he speaks in the name of god : i answer , the question will again return , how i shall know he speaks this from divine authority ? and so there must be a progress in infinitum , or founding divine faith on a meer humane testimony , if i am to believe divine revelation meerly on the account of the persons affirmation who pretends unto it . for in this case it holds good , non apparentis & non existentis eadem est ratio , if he be divinely inspired , and there be no ground inducing me to believe that he is so , i shall be excused , if i believe him not , if my wilfulness and laziness be not the cause of my unbelief . if it be said that god will satisfie the minds of good men concerning the truth of divine revelation . i grant it to be wonderfully true , but all the question is de modo , how god will satisfie them ? whether meerly by inspiration of his own spirit in them , assuring them that it is god that speaks in such persons ; or by giving them rational evidence , convincing them of sufficient grounds to believe it . if we assert the former way , we run into these inconveniences ; first we make as immediate a revelation in all those who believe , as in those who are to reveal divine truths to us , for there is a new revelation of an object immediately to the mind ; viz. that such a person is inspired of god ; and so is not after the common way of the spirits illumination in believers , which is by inlightning the faculty , without the proposition of any new object , as it is in the work of grace : so that according to this opinion , there must be immediate inspiration as to that act of faith , whereby we believe any one to have been divinely inspired , and consequently to that whereby we believe the scriptures to be the word of god. secondly , doth not this make the fairest plea for mens unbelief ? for i demand , is it the duty of those who want that immediate illumination to believe or no ? if it be not their duty , unbelief can be no sin to them ; if it be a duty , it must be made known to be a duty ; and how can that be made known to them to be a duty , when they want the only and necessary means of instruction in order to it ? will god condemn them for that , which it was impossible they should have , unless god gave it them ? and how can they be left inexcuseable , who want so much as rational inducements to faith ? for of these i now speak , and not of efficacious perswasions of the mind , when there are rational arguments for faith propounded . but lastly , i suppose the case will be cleared , when we take notice what course god hath alwayes taken to give all rational satisfaction to the minds of men , concerning the persons whom he hath imployed in either of the fore-mentioned cases . first , for those who have been imployed upon some special message and service for god , he hath sent them forth sufficiently provided with manifestations of the divine power whereby they acted : as is most clear and evident in the present case of moses , exodus . , , , , . where moses puts the case to god which we are now debating of . supposing , saith he , that i should go to the israelites and tell them , god had appeared to me , and sent me to deliver them , and they should say god had not appeared unto me , how should i satisfie them ? god doth not reject this objection of moses as favouring of unbelief , but presently shews him how he should satisfie them , by causing a miracle before his face , turning his rod into a serpent ; and god gives this as the reason of it , vers . . that they may believe that the lord god of their fathers , the god of abraham , the god of isaac , the god of jacob , hath appeared unto thee . it seems god himself thought this would be the most pregnant evidence of gods appearing to him , if he wrought miracles before their faces . nay , lest they should think one single miracle was not sufficient , god in the immediate following verses adjoyns two more , which he should do in order to their satisfaction ; and further , verse . god gave him a charge to do all those wonders before pharoah , which he had put into his hand . and accordingly we find pharoah presently demanding a miracle of moses , exodus . . which accordingly moses did in his presence , though he might suppose pharoahs demand not to proceed from desire of satisfaction , but from some hopes that for want of it , he might have rendred his credit suspected among the israelites . indeed after god had delivered his people , and had setled them in a way of serving him according to the laws delivered by moses , which he had confirmed by unquestionable miracles among them , we find a caution laid in by moses himself , against those which should pretend signs and wonders to draw them off from the religion established by the law of moses . and so likewise under the gospel , after that was established by the unparallel'd miracles of our saviour and his apostles , we find frequent cautions against being deceived by those who came with pretences of doing great miracles . but this is so far from infringing the credibility of such a testimony which is confirmed by miracles , that it yields a strong confirmation to the truth of what i now assert . for the doctrine is supposed to be already established by miracles , according to which we are to judge of the spirits of such pretenders . now it stands to the greatest reason , that when a religion is once established by uncontrouled miracles , we should not hearken to every whiffling conjurer that will pretend to do great feats , to draw us off from the truth established . in which case , the surest way to discover the imposture , is to compare his pretended miracles with those true and real ones which were done by moses and christ ; and the ground of it is , because every person is no competent judge of the truth of a miracle ; for the devil by his power and subtilty , may easily deceive all such as will be led by the nose by him , in expectation of some wonders to be done by him . and therefore as long as we have no ground to question the oertainty of those miracles which were wrought by christ or moses , i am bound to adhere to the doctrine established by those miracles , and to make them my rule of judging all persons who shall pretend to work miracles : because , . i do not know how far god may give men over to be deceived by lying wonders , who will not receive the truth in the love of it ; i. e. those that think not the christian religion sufficiently confirmed by the miracles wrought at the first promulgation of it . god in justice may permit the devil to go further then otherwise he could , and leave such persons to their own credulity , to believe every imposture and illusion of their senses for true miracles . . that doctrine which was confirmed by undoubted miracles , hath assured us of the coming of lying wonders , whereby many should be deceived . now this part of the doctrine of the gospel is as certainly true as any of the rest ; for it was confirmed by the same miracles that the other was ; and besides that , the very coming of such miracles is an evidence of the truth of it , it falling out so exactly according to what was foretold so many hundred years since . now if this doctrine be true , then am i certain the intent of these miracles is to deceive , and that those are deceived who hearken to them ; and what reason then have i to believe them ? . to what end do these miracles serve ? are they to confirm the truths contained in scripture ? but what need they any confirmation now , when we are assured by the miracles wrought by christ and his apostles , that the doctrine by them preached came from god ? and so hath been received upon the credit of those miracles ever since . were these truths sufficiently proved to be from god before or no ? if not , then all former ages have believed without sufficient ground for faith ; if they were , then what ground can there be to confirm us in them now ? certainly god , who never doth anything but for very great purposes , will never alter the course of nature , meerly for satisfaction of mens vain curiosities . but it may be it will be said , it was something not fully revealed in scripture which is thus confirmed by miracles : but where hath the scripture told us , that anything not fully revealed therein , should be afterwards confirmed ? was the scripture an infallible rule of faith while this was wanting in it ? did christ and his apostles discharge their places , when they left something unr●vealed to us ? was this a duty before these miracles , or no ? if it was , what need miracles to confirm it ? if not , christ hath not told us all nec●ssary conditions of salvation . for whatever is required as a duty , is such as the neglect of it runs men upon damnation . lastly , mens faith will be left at continual uncertainties ; for we know not according to this principle , when we have all that is necessary to be beli●ved , or do all that is necessary to be practised in order to salvation . for if god may still make new articles of saith , or constitute new duties by fresh miracles , i must go and enquire what miracles are wrought in every place , to see that i miss nothing that may be necessary for me , in order to my happiness in another world . if men pretend to deliver any doctrine contrary to the scripture ; then it is not only necessary that they confirm it by miracles , but they must manifest the falsity of those miracles on which that doctrine is believed , or else they must use another miracle to prove that god will set his seal to confirm both parts of a contradiction to be true . which being the hardest task of all , had need be proved by very sufficient and undoubted miracles , such as may be able to make us believe those are miracles , and are not , at the same time , and so the strength of the argument is utterly destroyed by the m●dium produced to prove it by . by this discour●e these two things are clear ; first , that no pretences of miracles are to be hearkened to , when the doctrine we are to believe is already established by them , if those miracles tend in the least to the derogation of the truth of what was established by those former miracles . secondly , that when the full doctrine we are to believe is established by miracles , there is no necessity at all of new miracles , for confirmation of any of the truths therein delivered . and therefore it is a most unreasonable thing to demand miracles of those to prove the truth of the doctrine they deliver , who do first solemnly profess to deliver nothing but what was confirmed by miracles in the first delivery of it , and is contained in the scriptures of the old and new testament ; and secondly do not pretend to any immediate commission from heaven , but do nothing but what in their consciences they think every true christian is bound to do ; much more all magistrates and ministers who believe the truth of what they profess , which is in their places to reform all errours and abuses which are crept into the doctrine or practice of christianity , through the corruption of men or times . and therefore it is a most unjust and unreasonable demand of the papists , when they require miracles from our first reformers , to prove the truth of their doctrine with . had they pretended to have come with an immediate commission from heaven to have added to the doctrine of the gospel , there had been some plea for such a demand ; but it was quite otherwise with them : their only design was to whip the buyers and sellers out of the temple , to purge the church from its abuses : and although that by ierome was thought to be one of our saviours greatest miracles , yet this by us is conceived to be no other then the duty of all magistrates , ministers , and private christians ; these by their prayers , ministers , by their doctrine , and magistrates by their just authority . chap. iv. the fidelity of the prophets succeeding moses . in order of prophets to succeed moses , by gods own appointment in the law of moses . the schools of the prophets , the original and institution of them . the cities of the levites . the occasion of their first institution . the places of the schools of the prophets , and the tendency of the institution there to a prophetical office . of the musick used in the schools of the prophets . the roman assamenta , and the greek hymns in their solemn worship . the two sorts of prophets among the jews , lieger and extraordinary . ordinary prophets taken out of the schools , proved by amos and saul . but although now under the gospel ( the revelation of gods will being compleated by christ and his apostles ) we have no reason either to expect new revelations , or new miracles for confirming the old ; yet under the law , god training up his people by degrees till the comming of christ , there was a necessity of a new supply of divine messengers ( called prophets ) to prepare the people , and make way for the comming of christ. as to whom these two things are considerable . first , those prophets whose work was to inform the people of their duties , or to reprove them for their sins , or to prepare them for the comming of the messias ( which were their chief tasks ) had no need to confirm the truth of their doctrine or commission from heaven by the working of miracles among them . and that on these two accounts . first , because god did not consummate the revelation of his mind and will to the jews by the ministry of moses , but appointed a succession of prophets to be among them , to make known his mind unto them . now in this case , when the prophetical ●ffice was established among them , what necessity was there tha● every one that came to them upon an errand from god , should prove his testimony to be true by miracles , when in the discharge of his office he delivered nothing dissonant from the law of moses ? it is one argument god intended a succession of prophets , when he laid down such rules in his law for t●e judging of them , and to know whether they were truly inspired or no , deut. . , . and in that same place god doth promise a succession of prophets , deut. . , . a prophet will the lord god raise up unto thee like unto me ; to him shall ye hearken . which words , though in their full and compleat sense they do relate to christ ( who is the great prophet of the church ) yet whoever attends to the full scope of the words , will easily perceive that the immediate sense of them doth relate to an order of prophets which should succeed moses among the iewes ; between whom and moses there would be a great similitude as to their birth , calling , and doctrine , though not a just equality , which is excluded , deut. . , . and the chief reason why it is said there that the other prophets fell so much short of moses , is , in regard of the signs and wonders which he wrought , as is there largely expressed . nor may it seem strange , that by a prophet should be understood an order or succession of prophets , when it is acknowledged by most protestants , that by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the antichrist , is understood a rank and succession of several persons in the same name & function : and that it is to be understood in those words concerning a succession of prophets , will appear by the occasion of their being brought in ; for verse . god prohibits them to hearken after the manner of their neighbour-nations , to observers of times and diviners , and then brings in the following words , v. . as to the reason of that prohibiteon , that god would raise up a prophet among themselves like unto moses , and to him should they hearken . now let any rational man judge whether it were so probable an argument to keep them from hearkening to diviners of other nations , that there should a prophet arise years after like unto moses , as that he would raise up a continued succession of prophets among themselves , to whom they should hearken . thus origen in his excellent books against celsus , shews the necessity of the prophetical office among the iews from hence ; for , saith he , it being written in their law that the gentiles hearkend unto oracles and divinations ; but god would not suffer it to be so among them , it presently follows , a prophet will the lord god raise up in the midst of thee , &c. therefore , saith he , when the nations round about them had ther oracles , and several wayes of divination , all which were strictly prohibited among the iews , if the iews had no way of foreknowing things to come , it had been almost impossible , considering the great curiosity of humane nature , to have kept them from despising the law of moses , or apostatizing to the heathen oracles , or setting up something like them among themselves . which interpretation of his seems to have a great deal of reason , not only from the coherence of the words here , but from the analogy of many other precepts of the law of moses , which it is most certain have a respect to the customs of the idolatrous nations round about them . another reason why it is most probable , that by this is understood a succession of prophets , is the change which follows against false prophets , and the rules to discover them , v. , , . which had not been so pertinent and coherent if the opposition did not lie between the order of true prophets among the iewes , and the false prophets which should rise up in the midst of them . and that which yet further justifies this interpretation , is , that there is no other place in the whole pentateuch which doth expresly speak of a su●cession of prophets , if this be not understood of it ; and is it any ways probabe a matter of so great moment and consequence should be wholly pretermitted ? especially when we find it so exactly performed in the succeeding ages of the iewish commonwealth ; their immediate rulers like dictators at rome , after moses death , being most raised up by immediate incitation and impulse from god , and many of them inspired with a spirit of prophecie . how should the iews have expected these , or obeyed them when they appeared , had not god foretold it to them , and provided them for it by the law of moses ? neither did these prophets arise singly among them , like blazing stars , one in an age to portend future events , but whole constellations of them sometimes appeared together ; yea , so many smaller prophets were sometimes united together , as made up a perfect galaxy , when they were entred into societies , and became schools of the prophets ; for such we frequently read of in scripture . the original and institution of which may cast a further light into our present design , and shew us the little reason the iews could have to expect miracles from them to confirm their doctrine , who were brought up in the knowledge of their law , and were called out from their several societies into the prophetical office by the immediate incitation of god himself . which being so commonly known among them , there needed no such extraordinary proofs to manifest the divine authority by which they were employed . two things then we shall endeavour to clear ; first , the original and institution of these schools of the prophets ; and secondly , that it was the erdinary course for the prophets by employment to be taken forth of these societies wherein they were educated . first , for the original and institution of these schools of the prophets . the first seminaries , or places of institution among the iews , were the cities of the levites , which were dispersed up and down in the several tribes of israel ; god thereby turning that into a blessing , which was pronounced as a curse upon levi by his father iacob , viz. that he should be divided in iacob , and scattered in israel . but though the fulfilling of that prophecie might be the primary ground o● that scattering , yet it is evident that god aimed at some further good in it , both in reference to the levites and the israelites . lyra undertakes to assign four reasons of this distribution of the cities of the levites among the tribes . ( ) because if they had lived but in one tribe , the worship of god would have seemed to have been confined to that tribe . ( ) because they would have been a burden to that tribe they had their habitations in . ( ) from the equity of being maintained by all , who served for all . ( ) because it was their office to teach the people , and therefore it was necessary they should live among them . these reasons are most of them opposed by abulensis , but defended by others . the last is that which most insist on , it being the peculiar office of the levites to teach the people ; so chron. . . and said unto the levites , qui erudiebant omnem israelem , as vatablus renders it , who taught all israel ; and masius insists on that as the great reason of their dispersion , to be ready to teach the law among the israelites . but yet all those who are agreed that teaching the law was the duty of the levites , are not yet agreed of the manner of that teaching ; for there being two parts of their law , the one ceremonial and judicial , and the other moral and spiritual , the question is , whether of these two did belong to , or was performed by the priests and levites . there are many who understand all that office of teaching which belonged to the priests and levites , to be meerly concerning the ceremonial part of the law , i. e. deciding all cases of controversie which should arise concerning their ceremonial worship , which in levit. . . is called putting a difference between holy and unholy , and between clean and unclean . but it seems somewhat strange that god should take so great care about the shell and outside of his worship , and none at all for the moral and spiritual part of it , especially when he had set apart a whole tribe meerly for his own service , and freed them from all other employments , that they might have a greater liberty to attend upon the things relating to his service ; especially when it is mentioned as the duty of the priests and levites to teach all the statutes which the lord had spoken to them by the hand of moses , and that they shall teach iacob thy statutes , and israel thy law. which notwithstanding what abarbinel and others say , must certainly comprehend as well the moral as the ceremonial part of moses his law. and the priests lips are said to preserve knowledge ; and god saith they should seek the law at his mouth ; for he is the messenger of the lord of hosts . do these things import no more then meer deciding the cases of the ceremonial law ? but whatever gods intention in the institution of the levites was , we find not much in scripture of what they did for the promoting the moral and spiritual part of divine worship ; but it is no news to hear that societies instituted for good and pious ends , should degenerate from the first intention of the founders of them ; and thus it is probable it was with the levites , who finding the most of their benefit and advantage to come in by the ceremonial cases , might grow more negligent of the moral part of divine service , which brought no secular emolument to them . and thence we read not of these schools of the prophets , which were societies in order to spiritual in struction , till about the time of samuel ; and many think him to have been the first author of them . for it is evident , that about his time the priesthood was grown to a great degeneracy , and men thereby estranged from the worship of god , so that there seemed almost a necessity then of restoring some societies , who might have a special eye to the spiritual part of gods worship and service . the occasion of the in●titution of them , seems to have been from the resort which the people had to the high places for sacrificing , during the captivity or uncertain abode of the ark of god , after the desolation of shiloh : now the people resorting to these places to perform their solemnities , it was so ordered , that a company of prophets should be there resident to bless the sacrifices , and instruct the people . two of these places with these societies in them we finde mentioned in the time of samuel . the first mentioned , sam. . , , which cannot be the same with ramah , although the syriack and arabick versions so render it . for samuel had his own residence in ramah whither saul went to him , sam. . , . but in this chapter we finde samuel sending saul on a journey from him beyond bethel and the plain of tabor , and there tells him he should meet with the company of prophets upon . the hill of god , ver . ; some think it was called the hill of god , because of its height , as the cedars of god , and the mountains of god for the highest ; so tirinus understands it , but menochius far more probably , quia in ea erat caetus & veluti schola prophetarum . the chaldee paraphrast renders it , ad collem in quo arca domini : r. solomon makes this hill to be kirjath-jearim , and therefore called the hill of god , because the ark was there in the house of abinadab in the hill . but lyra thinks he hath proved , that before this time the ark was removed from kirjath-jearim to mizpah ; but abulensis more probably conceives it was never removed thither , and withal thinks this hill of god to be no other then gibea of benjamin , where saul inhabited ; and thence the wonder was the greater , to see him prophecy among those who had known his former life and education . the other place is naioth in ramah , where was a high place whither the people came to sacrifice ; this ramah seems to have been the place of samuels nativity , called ramathaim sophim , which the syriack version renders collis specularum ( some who would be ready to improve every thing for their purpose , would think it was so called in allusion to the imployment of the young students there . so heinsius conceives 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be understood , numb . . . the place of watchmen , from which word saith he , without doubt the greeks derived their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , who were wont in such high places to observe the course and motions of the heavens ; but to pass by such frivolous conjectures . ) it seems a great deal more probable , that this ramah which the septuagint by a light mutation of the initial letters calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , was the same with arimathaea , the town of ioseph mentioned in the gospel . but the place where the school of the prophets was , seems to have been , with greatest conveniency , for a place of education , at some distance from the town . vatablus conceives it was built in the fields of ramah , and the word naioth , saith pet. martyr properly signifies pastures , and some remote places ; quae fere sunt studiis aptissima . the chaldee paraphrast renders naioth by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a colledge or school of prophetical education : over this colledge samuel himself was president , as most understand that place , sam. . . and when they saw the company of prophets prophecying , and samuel standing as appointed over them ; ionathan renders it , & semuelem stantem docentem super eos . to which we may well apply the words of philo , speaking of the iewish manner of instruction , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the president going before and teaching , the rest increasing in goodness , and improving in life and manners . neither can we think so good and useful an institution should presently degenerate or be turned into another channel ; and therefore some conceive that the most noted prophets to the time of david were the presidents of these colledges ; such as besides samuel were h●lcana , gad , nathan , heman , and ieduthun ; and that they selected out the choycest and most hopeful of the young levites , and here educated them , together with the nazarites which came out of other tribes . and it seems very probable , that in all the most noted high places whether they went to sacrifice , there were such schools erected after the first institution of them . thence we read of such multitudes of the prophets together in the time of ahab , kings . . for when iezabel cut off the prophets of the lord , obadia● took an hundred and hid them in caves ; certainly their number was very great , when an hundred might be saved without missing . the chief places where they resided , seem to have been bethel , kings . . and iericho , which was a large colledge ; for therein we read of fifty sons of the prophets standing together out of their number , kings . , , . and gilgal , which had been a place of religion from the first entrance into canaan , there we finde the sons of the prophets sitting before elisha , kings . . it seems most probable , that the purity of gods worship among the ten tribes after the defection in the time of ieroboam was preserved by the prophets in their several schools and places of habitation , which hath sufficient foundation in that place , kings . . where the shunamites husband asks her wherefore she would go to the man of god that day , seeing it was neither new-moon nor sabbath . whereby it is both evident , that the prophets did undertake the office of instructing the people on their solemn festivals , and that it was their custom to resort to them for that end . thus we see what care god took for the instruction of his people in a time of so general an apostacy as that of the ten tribes was , when the church of god could not be known by that constant visibility and o●tward glory which some speak so much of , but was then clouded in obscurity , and shrouded it self under the mantl●s of some prophets which god continued among them , and that not by any lineal succession neither , though the iews would fain make the gift of prophecy to be a kind of cabala too , and conveyed in a constant succession from one prophet to another . neither were these schools of the prophets only in israel , but in iudah likewise was god known , and his name was great among these schools there . in ierusalem it self there was a colledge where huldah the prophetess lived , kings . . some render mishna in secunda urbis parte ; for ierusalem was divided into the upper and nether part of the city . abulensis and lyra will have it refer to the three walls of the city in which the three chief parts of it were comprized ; in the first , the temple and the kings p●lace ; in the second , the nobles and the prophets houses ; and in the third , the common people . iosephus seems to favour the devision of the city into three parts , but pineda thinks the second part of the city was most inhabited by artificers , and that the prophets , and the wise men , and such as frequented the temple , most dwelt in the city of david within the first wall ; and therefore he conjectures that the colledge was upon mount sion , ( and so properly called sion colledge ) and he explains that house which wisdom is said to have built and hewn out her seven pillars , prov. . . by this colledge which he supposeth was built by solomon in mount sion , and thence ver . . she is said to cry upon the highest places of the city . thus much may serve concerning the original and institution of these schools of the prophets . i now come to the second thing promised concerning the schools of the prophets , which is , that it was gods ordinary method to call those persons out of these schools , whom he did employ in the discharge of the prophetical office . two things will be necessary for the clearing of this : first , what tendency their education in those schools had towards the fitting them for their prophetical office . secondly , what evidence the scripture gives us that god called the prophets out from these colledges . the first of these is very requisite to be cleared , because the prophetical office depending upon immediate inspiration , it is hard to conceive what influence any antecedent and preparatory dispositions can have upon receiving the prophetical spirit . it is commonly known how much the generality of iewish writers do insist on the necessity of these qualifications antecedent to a spirit of prophecie . . an excellent natural temper . . good accomplishments both of with and fortunes . . separation from the world . . congruity of place ( which they make proper to iudaea ) . opportunity of time . . and divine inspiration . these are so largely discoursed of by many learned men from iewish writers , that it will be both tedious and impertinent to recite much of their opinions concerning them ; who , since they have lost the gift of prophecie , seem to have lost too that wisdom and natural understanding , which they make one of the most necessary qualifications of a prophet . it is not easie to imagine what subserviency riches could have to a prophetical spirit , unless the iews be of simon magus his opinion , that these gifts of the holy ghost may be purchased with money ; and if so , they think themselves in as likely a way to bid fair for a prophetical spirit as any people in the world . or is it that they thi●k it impossible any without them should have that f●ee , cheerful , and generous spirit , which they make so necessary to a prophetick spirit , that it is an axiome of great authority with them , spiritus sanctus non residet super hominem moestum ; and they think elisha his fit of passion did excuss his prophetick spirit from him , which he was fain to retrive again with a fit of musick . there are only two sorts of those antecedent dispositions which seem to bear any affinity with the prophetick spirit : and those are such as tended to the improvement of their natural faculties , and such as tended to their advancement in piety , and consequently to the subduing all irregular motions in their souls : not that either of these did concur by way of efficiency to the production of a spirit of prophecie ( which is an opinion maimonides seems very favourable to ) but that god might make choise particularly of such persons , to remove all prejudices against them in those they were sent unto . for nothing could possibly dissatisfie them more concerning divine inspiration , then if the person who pretended to it were of very weak and shallow intellectuals , or known to be of an irregular conversation . in order therefore to the fuller satisfaction of men concerning these two qualisications , this institution of them in the schools of the prophets was of great subserviency , because therein their only imployment was to improve in knowledge , and especially in true piety . this latter being the most necessary disposition , since the apostle hath told us that the prophets were holy men , who spake as they were moved by the holy ghost . and in order to this , the greatest part we can find of the exercises of those who were educated in these schools of the prophets , were instructions in the law , and the solemn celebration of the praises of god : which appears in scripture to have been their chief employment as prophets , and by which they are said to prophecie : so at gibeah at the oratory there , we find a company of prophets coming down from the high place with a psaltery , a tabret and pipe , and a harp before them , and prophecying . it may seem somewhat strange to consider what relation these musical instruments had to the prophecying here mentioned . are musical notes like some seeds naturalists speak of , which will help to excite a prophetick spirit ? or do they tend to elevate the spirits of men , and so put them into a greater capacity of enthusiasm ? or is it because musick is so excellent for allaying the tumults of inward passions , and so fitting the soul for the better entertainment of the divine spirit ? or was all this prophecying here spoken of nothing else but vocal and instrumental musick ? so some indeed understand it , that it was only the praising god with spiritual songs and melody ; wherein one as the praecentor began a hymn , which the rest took from him and carried on . i confess it carries the fairest probability with it , that this prophecying with musical instruments was at their places and times of sacrifice , an adjnuct , if not a part of the solemn service of god : which was managed chiefly by the quire of the sons of the prophets which were resident there , and were trained up in all exercises of piety and devotion . but yet i cannot see any reason to think that all this prophecying was meerly singing of hymns , and playing upon their musical instruments to them , as some imagine , because there seems to be implyed some immediate impulses of a prophetick spirit , by what samuel said to saul , that when he came among the prophets , the spirit of the lord would come upon him , and he should prophecy with them , and he should become another man , what strange impulse and wonderful transformation was this meerly for saul to joyn with the prophets in their praises of god ? and this needed not so much admiration as followed there upon this action of sauls , that it should become a proverb , is saul also among the prophets ? certainly saul was a very great hater of all spiritual musick before , if it became a proverb meerly for his being present at , or joyning with this company in singing their hymns . therefore others think that those who are said particularly to prophecie at these musick-meetings , were some persons as chief among the rest , who having their spirits elevated by the musick , did compose hymns upon the place by a divine energy inwardly moving their minds . so that there were properly divine raptures in some of them , which transported them beyond the ordinary power of fancy or imagination , in dictating such hymns as might be suitable for the design of celebrating the honour of god. neither may it seem strange that such an enthusiastick spirit should seize on them only at such selemn times , since we read in the new testament of a like exercise of such gifts in the church of corinth , cor. . . where we see in coming together every one had a psalm , a doctrine , a tongue , a revelation , &c. whereby it appears that they were inspired upon the place ; etiam extemporales hymni saepe ab afflatuerant , as grotius there observes ; as we see it in frequent instances in scripture of simeon and anna , moses and miriam , deborah , and isaiah ; and in the christian church after that landslood of inspired gifts was much abated in the church , they kept up a custome much like to these extemporal hymns , as appears evidently by tertullian , post aquam manualem & lumina ut quisque de scripturis sanctis vel de proprio ingenio potest , provocatur in medium deo canere ; after they had ended their love-feasts , they begun their hymns , which were either taken from the scriptures , or of their own composition . which pliny takes notice of as a great part of the christians worship , that they did secum invicem carmen christo quasi deo dicere , they joyned in singing hymns to christ as god. nay , we find something very parallel to this preserved among the ruins of the heathen worship ; such were the assamenta among the old romans , which were peculiarly sung to the honour of some particular god ; thence the assamenta ianualia , iunonia , minervia , which were priva poemata & carmina in singulos eos deos conscripta , as the learned ioseph scaliger observes . so likewise the old greeks had their solemn hymns to their gods , some to the propitious gods , which they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the latins properly indigitamenta , and carmen calatorium ; others they had to their vejoves , or laeva numina , which they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; the latins carmen averruncale ; but besides these , they had some peculiar to the several deities , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to diana , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to apollo , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to ceres , dithyrambus to bacchus , adonidia to adonis , as proclus tells us in his chresto●●athia . and it is withall evident , that the heathens thought some of their priest● inspired while they were performing these solemn devotions to the gods ( which probably was by satan , as many other things in heathen worship taken up in imitation of these inspired hymns , and musick used by the sons of the prophets ) but their hymns were so composed , as to be fit rather to transport men beyond the power of their reason , then to compose and sweeeten it , which was suitable to the fanatick enthusiasm , which was so common among them . so proclus tells us that the io-bacche was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , full of noise and din ; and the dithyrambus was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a kind of extatick morice-dance , and their priests were apprehended by them to be under a real enthusiasm at these solemnities . so the corybantes are described rather like mad men then meer enthusiasts by strabo ; they were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as he describes them , dancing about with their cymbals and drums , and arms and pipes ( as though a bedlam had been broke loose among them ) yet this was in high esteem among them ; for as strabo after saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , this enthusiasm seemed to have a divine touch with it , and to come very near to a prophetick spirit . but though the prophecying with musick among the sons of the prophets , might be by some extemporary hymns immediately dictated by the praecentor of the chorus ; yet we are not to imagine any such frantick actions among them as were among the curetes and corybantes , it being always the devils temper to overdo , when he strives to imitate , and in stead of solemn and set devotions to carry men beyond all sense and reason . the spirit of god did never dictate any io-bacche's or dithyrambs to transport and amuse the spirits of men ; but those sweet airs which might both compose and elevate the spirits of all that heard them . for in probability the spirits of all these prophets were as lutes tuned to the same height , that when the spirit of god did strike upon one of them , the rest presently answered to it , and so made up an entire consort among them . so menochius thinks the spirit of god not only moved the spirit of him who was the praecentor , but the rest likewise who joyned with him ; and they are said to prophecy , saith torniellus , fortè quod non quascunque sed propheticas duntaxat cantiones praecinerent ; but from hence we clearly see what the great employment was in these schools of the prophets , which , as the same author expresseth , it was statis horis de rebus divinis disserere & divinis laudibus vacare ; and thereby we understand what reference this institution had in order to the prophetical office , because the spirit of god did much appear among them , and all their exercises tended to piety , and so did remove all prejudices from their persons , when god did send them abroad afterwards . and so it is evident he frequently did , not to say always , for that were to put too great a restraint upon the boundless spirit of god : for sometimes , as will appear afterwards , god sent the prophets upon extraordinary messages , and then furnished them with sufficient evidence of their divine commission without being beholding to the testimonials of the schools of the prophets . but besides these , god had a kind of leiger-prophets among his people ; such were the most of those whom we read of in scripture , which were no pen-men of the sacred scripture ; such in davids time we may conceive gad and nathan , and afterwards we read of many other prophets and seers among them , to whom the people made their resort : now these in probability were such as had been trained up in the prophetick schools , wherein the spirit of god did appear , but in a more fixed and setled way then in the extraordinary prophets whom god did call out on some more signal occasions , such as isaiah and ieremiah were . we have a clear foundation for such a distinction of prophets in those words of amos to amaziah , amos . , . i was no prophet , neither was i a prophets son ; but i was a herdman , and a gatherer of sycamore fruits : and the lord took me as i followed the stock ; and the lord said unto me , go prophecie to my people israel . some understand the first words . i was not a prophet , that he was not born a prophet as ieremiah was , not designed and set apart to it from his mothers womb ; but i rather think by his not being a prophet , he means he was none of those resident prophets in the colledges or schools of them , not any of those who had led a prophetick life , and withdrawn themselves from converse with the world ; nor was i ( saith he ) the son of a prophet , i. e. not brought up in discipleship under those prophets , and thereby trained up in order to the prophetick function . non didici inter discipulos prophetarum , as pellican renders it ; nec institutione qua filii prophetarum quasi ad donum pr●phetiae à parentibus praeparabantur , saith estius . non à puero educatus in schol is propheticis ; so calvin and most other modern interpreters understand it as well as abarbinel and the jewish writers : whereby it is evident that gods ordinary way for the prophets , was to take such as had been trained up and educated in order to that end , although god did not tye up hmself to this method , but sometimes called one from the court , as he did isaiah ; sometimes one from the herds , as here he did amos , and bid them go prophecie to the house of israel . there was then a kind of a standing colledge of prophets among the israelites , who shined as fixed stars in the firmament ; and there were others who had a more planetary motion , and withall a more lively and resplendent illumination from the fountain of prophetick light . and further it seems that the spirit of prophecie did not ordinarily seize on any , but such whose institution was in order to that end , by the great admiration which was caused among the people at sauls so sudden prophecying , that it became a proverb , is saul also among the prophets ? which had not given the least foundation for an adage for a strange and unwonted thing , unless the most common appearances of the spirit of prophecie had been among those who were trained up in order to it . thus i suppose we have fully cleared the first reason why there was no necessity for the ordinary prophets , whose chief office was instruction of the people , to prove their commission by miracles , because god had promised a succession of prophets by moses , and these were brought up ordinarily to that end among them ; so that all prejudices were sufficiently removed from their persons without any such extraordinary power as that of miracles . chap. v. the tryal of prophetical doctrine . rules of trying prophets established in the law of moses . the punishment of pretenders . the several sorts of false prophets . the case of the prophet at bethel discussed . the try●l of false prophets belonging to the great sanhedrin . the particular rules whereby the doctrine of prophets was judged . the proper notion of a prophet , not for●telling future contingencies , but having immediate divine revelation . several principles laid down for clearing the doctrine of the prophets . . that immediate dictates of natural light are not to be the measure of divine revelation . several grounds for divine revelation from natural light . . what ever is directly repugnant to the dictates of nature , cannot be of divine revelation . . no divine revelation doth contradict a divine positive law without sufficient evidence of gods intention to repeal that law. . divine revelation in the prophets was not to be measured by the words of the law , but by the intention and reason of it . the prophetical office a kind of chancery to the law of moses . the second reason why those prophets whose main office was instruction of the people , or meerly foretelling future events , needed not to confirm their doctrine by mirales , is , because they had certain rules of tryal by their law whereby to discern the false prophets from the true . so that if they were deceived by them , it was their own oscitancy and inadvertency which was the cause of it . god in that law which was confirmed by miracles undoubtedly divine , had established a court of tryal for prophetick spirits , and given such certain rules of procedure in it , that no men needed to be deceived unless they would themselves . and there was a greater necessity of such a certain way of tryal among them , because it could not otherwise be expected but in a nation where a prophetick spirit was so common , there would be very many pretenders to it , who might much endanger the faith of the people unless there were some certain way to find them out . and the more effectually to deterre men either from counterfeiting a prophetick spirit , or from heark●ning to such as did , god appointed a severe punishment for every such pretender , viz. upon legal conviction that he be punished with death . deut. . . but the prophet which shall presume to speak a word in my name which i have not commanded him to speak , or that shall speak in the name of other gods , shall surely dye . the iews generally understand this of strangling , as they do alwayes in the law , when the particular manner of death is not expressed . and therein a salse prophet and a seducer were distinguished each from other , that a meer seducer was to be stoned to death under sufficient testimony , deut. . , . but the false prophet is there said in general only to be put to death , deut. . , . the main difference between the seducer and false prophet was , that the seducer sought by cunning perswasions and plausible arguments to draw them off from the worship of the true god ; but the false prophet alwayes pretended divine revelation for what he perswaded them to , whether he gave out that he had that revelation from the true god , or from idols and false gods. so that the meer pretence to divine revelation was that which god would have punished with so great severity . the iews tell us of three sorts of prophets who were to be punished with death by men , and three other sorts who were reserved to divine punishment : of the first rank were these . . he that prophecyed that which he had not heard , and for this they instance in zedekiah the son of chenaanah , who made him horns of iron and said , thus saith the lord , this was the lying prophet . . he that speaks that which was revealed not to him but to another , and for this they instance in hananiah the son of azur , ( but how truly i shall not determine ) this was the plagiary prophet . . he that prophesied in the name of an idol , as the prophets of baal did , this was the idol prophet . these three when once fully convicted , were to be put to death . the other rank of those which were left to gods hand consisted of these . . he that stisles and smothers his own prophecy as ; jonas did , by which it may seem that when the divine spirit did overshadow the understanding of the prophets , yet it offered no violence to their faculties , but left them to the free determination of their own wills in the execution of their office ; but this must be understood of a lower degree of prophecy ; for at sometimes their prophecyes were as fire in their bones , that they were never at any rest till they had discharged their office . but withall by the example of ionas , we see , that though the spirit of prophecy like the fire on the altar could only be kindled from heaven , yet it might be destroyed when it was not maintained with something to feed upon ; or when it met not with suitable entertainment from the spirits of those it fell upon , it might retreat back again to heaven , or at least lie hid in the embers till a new blast from the spirit of god doth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , retrieve it into its former heat and activity . thus it was with ionas . . the other was , he that despised the words of a true prophet ; of such god saith deut. . . and it shall come to pass , that whosoever shall not hearken to my words which he shall speak in my name , i will require it of him . which maimonides explains by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 death by the hands of god , which he thus distinguisheth from the cereth , that he makes the death per manus coeli to be less then the cereth , because this latter continued in the soul after death , but the other was expiated by death ; but generally they interpret it of a sudden death which falls upon the person . . the last is , he who hearkens not to the words of his own prophecy ; of which we have a most remarkable instance in scripture , concerning the prophet whom god sent to bethel ( whom tertullian calls sameas , the iews hedua ) whom god destroyed in an unusual manner for not observing the command which god had given him , not to eat bread nor drink water at bethel , nor turn again by the way he came . neither was it any excuse to this prophet that the old prophet at bethel told him that an angel spake unto him by the word of the lord that he should turn back . for , . those whom god reveals his will unto , he gives them full assurance of it , in that they have a clear and distinct perception of god upon their own minds ; and so they have no doubt but it is the word of the lord which comes unto them ; but this prophet could have no such certainty of the divine revelation which was made to another , especially when it came immediately to contradict that which was so specially enjoyned him . . where god commands a prophet to do any thing in the pursuit of his message , there he can have no ground to question whether god should countermand it or no by another prophet ; because that was in effect to thwart the whole design of his message . so it was in this action of the prophets ; for god intended his not eating and drinking in bethel to testifie how much he loathed and abominated that place since its being polluted with idolatry . . he might have just cause to question the integrity of the old prophet , both because of his living in bethel , and not openly , according to his office , reproving their idolatry , and that god should send him out of iudea upon that very errand , which would not have seemed so probable , if there had been true prophets resident upon the place . . the thing he desired him to do was not an act of that weight and importance on which god useth to send his word to any prophets , much less by one prophet to contradict what he had said by another , and therefore tertullian saith of him , poenam deserti jejunii luit , god punished him for breaking his fast at bethel ; and therefore that message of this prophet seemed to gratifie more mans carnal appetite , then usually the actions of prophets did , which were most times matters of hardship and uneasiness to the flesh . . however all these were , yet he yeilded too soon , especially having so much reason on his side as he had , being well assured that god had commanded him , he had reason to see some clear evidence of a countermand , before he altered his mind : if he had seen any thing upon tryal which might have staggerd his faith , he ought to have made his immediate recourse to god by prayer for the settlement of his mind and removal of this great temptation . but so easily to hearken to the words of a lying prophet , which contradicted his own message , argued either great unbelief as to his own commission , or too great easiness and inadvertency in being drawn aside by the old prophet . and therefore god made that old prophet himself in the midst of his entertainment , as with a hand writing against the wall to tell him he was weighed in the ballance and found too light , and therefore his life should be taken from him . thus we see how dangerous a thing it was either to counterfeit a spirit of prophecy , or to hearken to those who did . it is the generally received opinion among the iewish doctors , that the cognizance and tryal of false prophets did peculiarly belong to the great sanhedrin . and that this was one end of its institution . so maimonides after he hath largely discoursed of the punishment of a seducer , and speaking of that of a false prophet , he layes this down as a standing rule among them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 no false prophet was to be judged but in the court of seventy one ; which was the number of the great sanhedrin . and there is some thing looks very like this in the proceedings of the people of israel against the prophet ieremiah ; for the people , the priests and the prophets , they laid hold on him ; and immediately after we read that the princes of iudah ( by whom grotius understands the senators of the great sanhedrin ) they come up from the kings house to the house of the lord , and sat down in the entry of the new gate of the lords house : ( which probably was the place where the great sanhedrin sat ) where after a particular examination of ieremiah , they acquit him as a person not worthy to dye upon a counterfeiting prophecy , but declare that he spake unto them in the name of the lord. and in this sense grotius likewise understands what is said of zedekiah concerning ieremiah to the princes of iudah afterwards , behold he is in your hand ; for the king is not he that can do ought against you , i. e. saith grotius , in manibus synedrii , cujus est judicare de propheta vero aut falso . and to this many make those words of our saviour , refer , that it is impossible a prophet should perish out of jerusalem , because the seat of the great sanhedrin was in ierusalem ; and so elsewhere our saviour saith , o ierusalem , ierusalem , thou that killest the prophets and stonest them which are sent unto thee ; because there it was the true prophets were destroyed as though they had been false ones , and gods own messengers punished with the death of seducers , which was l●pidation . and on this very account many are of opinion that our saviour was condemned by the sanhedrin at ierusalem ; which is supposed to have been assembled in the house of caiaphas the high priest , when christ was carried thither for examination ; which some think to have been at his lodgings in the temple , others at his palace in the city . for we read that the chief priests , and the elders , and all the council were met together at the high priests palace in order to our saviours tryal . the next morning they were met early together again in order to the further scanning of this business ; but they seem not to examine christ concerning a true spirit of prophecy , but concerning his being the messias , and calling himself the son of god , and so they would seem rather to proceed upon the law against blasphemy , then that against false prophets . but that which was the greatest security of the people against the imposture of false prophets , was the certain rules of judging them which were laid down in the law of moses . which may be comprehended under these two heads , such as concern their doctrine , or such as concern their predictions . first , such as concerned the prophets doctrine , which should especially be looked after because the main office of a prophet was to be interpres & internuncius divinae voluntatis , to be a revealer of gods will to men . for the primary notion of a prophet doth not lie in foretelling future events , but in declaring and interpreting to the world the mind of god which he receives by immediate revelation from himself . so that the receiving what he makes known by immediate revelation , is that which formally constitutes a prophet , but it is wholly extrinsecal and accidental what time his prophecy respects , whether past , present , or to come ; but because future contingencies are the furthest out of the reach of humane understanding , therefore the predictions of such have been chiefly looked on as the chief note and character of a prophet , as being apprehended to be the strongest evidence of divine revelation . and from hence it is in scripture that the patriarchs as abraham and others are called prophets , not because of any predictions uttered by them , but because of the frequency of immediate divine revelation ; among them . and hence likewise those in the new testament who expounded the scriptures , by immediate inspiration , are called prophets , and this was the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 spoken of by the apostle , the exposition of the hidden mysteries of the old testament by an immediate inspiration . and there is no word in the hebrew for a prophet , which may not equally respect all differences of time , but every one doth import immediate inspiration , for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 properly is one qui revelat abscondita 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a seer chiefly respects the clear representation of the intellectual species , by the lumen propheticum to the understanding , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 carries an equal indifferency to all circumstances of times . this being then the chief notion of a prophet , whatever he declared as the mind and will of god , must be searched and examined to see what consonancy it hath thereto . for the question which moses supposeth , is founded upon clear and evident reason , and if thou shalt say in thine heart , how shall we know the word which the lord hath not spoken ? for it being plain that there may be false prophets as well as true , we had need of some certain rules to judge of what is delivered for divine revelation . for the clearing of which important question , i lay down these principles . the immediate dictates of natural light , are no sufficient standard to judge of divine revelation by . i mean not in reference to consonancy or repugnancy to natural light , but in reference to the extent and latitude of divine revelation , i. e. that natural light doth not contain in it whatever may be known of god or of his will ; and that upon these reasons . . it implyes no repugnancy to any dictate of nature , that god should reveal any thing more of his mind and will , then is contained in the light of nature . . nature reacheth , as to matters concerning religion , no further then the obligation to duty , but leaves the particular determination of the manner of obedience to divine positive laws , as is clear in reference to the time , place , and particular duties of worship . . nature owning an universal obligation to the will of god in whatever he shall command , doth suppose a power in god to command what he pleaseth . . nature is sensible of its own decayes , and the imperfection of its own light , and therefore seems rather to require further illumination , then to put any bar against it . . mans happiness being a free gift of god , it stands to the highest reason that he should have the prescribing of the conditions which are in order to it ; now these conditions being the results , not of gods naeture , but of his arbitrarious will , it is impossible that natural light could ever reach to the full discovery of them . . it hath been the general sense of all nations in the world , that god may reveal more of his will then nature can reach unto ; which sense discovers its self in two things . . praying to their several gods for direction . . heark●ing after pretended oracles , which the devil could never have had that advantage of deceiving the world by , had it not been for this general sense of mankind , that there wanted some particular revelation from god to make men happy . so then this may be assumed as a principle , that god may reveal more of his mind and will to mankind , then he hath done by the dictates of meer natural light and reason . whatever speaks a direct repugnancy to any of the fundamental dictates of nature , cannot be of divine revelation . for those being sounded , not upon any positive or arbitrary will , but upon those inward impressions which are derived from the divine nature its self , it cannot in reason be supposed that god should commission any to enervate his own fundamental law ; and so by one will to contradict another . placitum regis must never stand against the placita coronae ; those things which depend upon fundamental and established laws , hold good against any positive sentence or declaration of a princes will ; because he is supposed to have bound up himself by the established laws ; and therefore any thing else which comes from him , contrary to them , is supposed not to be the will of the prince , but of the persons perswading him to it . but this now cannot be supposed in god , that he should be any wayes drawn to cassate the obligation of what is imprinted upon the souls of men as his own law. but yet we must distinguish between nulling the general obligation , and altering the particular nature of any thing which depends upon that general law ; the first in any case is impossible , that any divine revelation should make it not to be mans duty to obey his maker , or not to be a sin to commit murder , to lye , or to steal from another ; but there may come a particular revelation from god to alter the respects and nature of such things as do immediately depend upon his own dominion ; as the lives of persons and the properties of things are , and thus god did reveal to abraham that he should go and sacrifice his son , which had been no murder when done upon gods immediate command , and for a sacrifice to himself ; and therefore would have been acceptable as a testimony of entire obedience ( which god did accept without the act ) and so the israelites taking the aegyptians iewels , and dispossessing the canaanites , did depend upon gods immediate disposal of these things to them ; which otherwise had been a sin in them ; and no doubt was so to any that were unsatisfied whether god had immediately commanded it or no. or from hence to infer any general rule , is no doubt a breach of divine commands , and contrary to his nature and will. where god hath established a positive law , prescribing a form and manner wherein he will be worshipped , it is sufficient evidence of a false prophet , to go about to null the obligation of that law ; unless there be as great evidences given , that god did intend the establishing a new law by that person , as he did at first the institution of the old by the hand of moses . this latter clause is inserted , to shew that the succeeding of the doctrine of christ into the place of the law of moses , doth not bear any repugnancy to the hypothesis laid down , there being greater evidences of gods intending the abolishing the ceremonial law by the gospel of christ , then there were of the establishment of it by moses . but of those afterwards . i now only speak of such as upon the meer pretence of divine revelation , should destroy any precept of an established positive law ; and this , as far as we can find , was the great rule the iews went by , if any thing were spoken by any prophet , contrary to the law of moses , or tending to the alteration of the worship of god established thereby , he was accounted a false prophet . the modern iews to justifie themselves in their own unbelief , as to the doctrine of christ , extends this further then the law doth ; for they inlarge it to all the precepts of the ceremonial law ; whereas god in the law seems to limit it to the moral law , and chiefly insists on the three first precepts of the decalogue ; and therefore condemns such a one as spake in the name of the lord , when he had not commanded them , deut. . . and such as endeavoured to bring in idolatry , deut. . , , . where though the false prophet should offer to do signs and wonders before them , yet if his intention were to draw them to worship false gods , they were not to hearken unto him . and therefore maimonides , where he largely disputes about the truth of prophesies , layes this down as a certain rule : si propheta surrexerit , at que magna miracula aut prodigiafecerit & ad laboraverit falsitatis convincere proph●tiam mosis m. n. istum non audimus , quia certo novimus prodigium praestigiis aut incant ationibus productum esse , as vorstius renders him . if a prophet do never so great miracles , and seeks to convince moses of falshood , we are not to hearken to him , for we know that they are not done by the power of god , but by the illusions of the devil . and elsewhere he tells us , that if any one pretends to prophecy 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the name of idols they must not so much as dispute with him , nor answer him , nor desire any signs or miracles from him ; and if of himself he shews any , we are not to regard or mind them ; for , saith he , whoever doth but doubt in his mind concerning them , he breaks that command , and thou shalt not hearken to the words of that prophet . so that the doctrine once established , ought to be our most certain rule , according to which we must judge of all pretenders to miracles ; if their design be to draw men off from gods word , we are not to hearken to what they either say or do . the doctrine of those prophets who seek not to introduce idolatry , must not be measured by a strict conformity to the words of moses his law , but to the main reason and intention of it . the great reason of this is , because god did not intend the iews should alwayes rest in the paedagogy of the ceremonial law , but sent them prophets to train them up by degrees , and to fit them for a state of greater perfection ; and therefore it would be very unreasonable to judge whether they were true prophets or no exactly by that , which they came gradually to wean them from ; which were all one , as to try one whether he were grown a man or no , by the swadling clouts he wore when he was a child . god tempered the ceremonial law much according to the condition and capacity of the persons it was prescribed to , and therefore the sanctions of it did immediately respect their temporary concerns ; but we are not to think the end of that dispensation was to be meerly a covenant for the land of promise , but as the cherubims in the temple did alwayes look towards the mercy-seat , so did this whole oeconomy look towards the coming of the messias . but it was with the generality of the iews , as it is with ignorant people , who looking up to the heavens , cannot fancy the stars to be any bigger then they seem to them ; but astronomers by the help of their optick tubes and telescopes , do easily discern the just magnitude of them ; so the iews ordinarily thought there was no more in those types and shadows , then was visibly represented to them , but such as had the help of the divine spirit ( the best telescope to discern the day-star from on high with ) could easily look through those prospectives , into the most glorious mysteries of the gospel of iesus christ. these types being like triang●lar prismes , that must be set in a due light and posture , before they can represent that great variety of spiritual mysteries which was contained in them . now the great office of the prophets was to administer this light to the people , and to direct them in those excellent pieces of perspective , wherein by the help of a prophetick glass they might see the son of god fully represented to their view . besides this , the prophetical office was a kind of chancery to the mosaick law , wherein the prophets did interpret the pandects of the law ex aequo & bono , and frequently shewed in what cases god did dispence with the outward letter of it , to exalt the more the inward sense and reason of it . hence the prophets seem many times to speak contemptibly of the outward prescribed cer●monies , when their intent is not to condemn the observation of them , but to tell the people there were greater things which god looked at , then the outward observation of some ceremonial precepts , and that god would never accept of that by way of commutation , for real and internal goodness . hence the prophets by their own practice , did frequently shew that the law of moses did not so indispensably oblige men , but that god would accept of those actions , which were performed without the regularity required by the law of moses ; and thus he did of sacrificing upon high places , not only before the building of the temple , but sometimes after , as he accepted of the sacrifice of elijah on mount carmel , even when high places were for bidden . which the iews are become so sensible of , that they grant that a true prophet may sometimes command something to be done in violation of the law of moses , so he doth not draw people to idolatry , nor destroy the obligation of moses his law. but this they restrain to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 something done in case of necessity , and that it should not pass into a precedent or a perpetual law ; and therefore their rule is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the prophet was to be hearkened to in every thing he commanded in a case of necessity . but by this it is clear that the prophets were not to be tryed by the letter of the law of moses , but by the end and the reason of it . thus much i suppose will make it clear what rules the people had to try the prophets doctrine by , without miracles . chap. vi. the tryal of prophetical predictions and miracles . the great difficulty of the trying the truth of prophetical predictions from jerem. . , , &c. some general hypo●heses premised for the clearing of it . the first concerns the grounds why predictions are accounted an evidence of divine revelation . three consectaries drawn thence . the second , the manner of gods revelation of his will to the minds of the prophets . of the several degrees of prophecy . the third is , that god did not alwayes reveal the internal purposes of his will unto the true prophets . the grand question propounded ●ow it may be known when predictions express gods decrees , and when only the series of causes . for the first , several rules laid down . . when the prediction is confirmed by ● present miracle . . when the things foretold exceed the probability of second causes . . when confirmed by gods oath . . when the blessings fore-told are purely spiritual . three rules for interpreting the prophecyes which respect the state of things under the gospel . . when all circumstances are foretold . . when many prophets in several ages agree in the same predictions . predictions do not express gods unalterable purposes , when they only contain comminations of judgements , or are predictions of temporal blessings . the case of the ninivites , hezekiah and others opened . of repentance in god , what it implyes . the iewish objections about predictions of temporal blessings answered . in what cases miracles were expected from the prophets , when they were to confirm the truth of their religion . instanced in the prophet at bethel , elijah , elishah , and of moses himself ; whose divine authority that it was proved by miracles , is demonstrated against the modern iews , and their pretences answered . the next thing which the rules of tryal concerned , was the predictions of the prophets . concerning which god himself hath laid down this general rule , deut. . . when a prophet speaketh in the name of the lord , if the thing follow not , nor come to pass , that is the thing which the lord hath not spoken , but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously ; thou shalt not be afraid of him . grotius understands this place of the prophets telling the people he would do some miracles to confirm his doctrine , but , saith he , if those miracles were not done as he said , it was an evident demonstration of a false prophet . it is certain it was so ; for then his own mouth told him he was a lying prophet ; but these words seem to referr rather to something future then present , and are therefore generally understood concerning the truth of predictions ; which was a matter of very difficult tryal , in regard of the goodness or the justice of god so frequently interposing between the prediction and the event . that place which makes it so difficult to discern the truth of a prediction by the event , is ierem. . , , , . at what instant i shall speak concerning a nation , and concerning a kingdom , to pluck up , and to pull down , and destroy it : if that nation against whom i have pronounced , turn from evil , i will repent of the evil i had thought to do unto them ; and at what instant i shall speak concerning a nation , and concerning a kingdom , to build and to plant it ; if it do evil in my sight , that it obey not my voice , then will i repent of the good wherewith i said i would benefit them . by which place it seems clear , that even after the predictions of prophets , god doth reserve a liberty to himself , either to repent of the evil or the good that was foretold concerning any people ; how then can the fidelity of a prophet be discovered by the event , when god may alter the event , and yet the prophet be a true prophet ? this being a case very intricate and obscure , will call for the more diligence in the unfolding of it : in order to which , we shall first premise some general hypotheses , and then come to the particular resolution of it . the general hypotheses will be concerning the way and method of gods revealing future contingencies to the prophets , without which it will be impossible to resolve the particular emergent cases concerning predictions . the prediction of future events is no further an argument of prophetick spirit , then as the fore-knowledge of those things is supposed to be out of the reach of any created understanding . and therefore god challengeth this to himself in scripture , as a peculiar prerogative of his own , to declare the things that are to come , and thereby manifests the idols of the gentiles to be no gods , because they could not shew to their worshippers the things to come , isaiah . . , . from this hypothesis these two consectaries follow . . that the events which are foretold , must be such as do exceed the reach of any created intellect ; for otherwise it could be no evidence of a spirit of true prophecy ; so that the foretelling of such events as depend upon a series of natural causes , or such as though they are out of the reach of humane understanding , yet are not of the diabolical , or such things as fall out casually true , but by no certain grounds of prediction , can none of them be any argument of a spirit of prophecy . . that where there were any other evidences , that the prophet spake by divine revelation , there was no reason to wait the fulfilling of every particular prophecy before he was believed as a prophet . if so , then many of gods chiefest prophets could not have been believed in their own generations ; because their prophecies did reach so far beyond them , as isaiahs concerning cyrus , the prophet at bethel concerning iosias ; and all the prophecies concerning the captivity and deliverance from it , must not have been believed till fulfilled , that is , not believed at all ; for when prophecies are accomplished , they are no longer the objects of faith , but of sense . where then god gives other evidences of divine inspiration , the credit of the prophet is not suspended upon the minute accomplishment of every event foretold by him . now it is evident there may be particular divine revelation of other things besides future contingencies , so that if a reason may be given why events once foretold may not come to pass , there can be no reason why the credit of any prophecy should be invalidated on that account ; because every event is not exactly correspondent to the prediction . it is most certain that what ever comes under divine knowledge , may be divinely revealed ; for the manifestation which is caused by any light , may extend its self to all things to which that light is extended ; but that light which the prophets saw by was a divine light , and therefore might equally extend it self to all kind of objects ; but because future contingencies are the most remote from humane knowledge , therefore the foretelling of these hath been accounted the great evidence of a true prophet ; but yet there may be a knowledge of other things in a lower degree then future contingencies which may immediately depend upon divine revelation ; and these are , . such things which cannot be known by one particular man , but yet is certainly known by other men ; as the present knowledge of things done by persons at a remote distance from them : thus elisha knew what gehezi did , when he followed n●aman ; and thus the knowledge of the thoughts of anothers heart depends upon immediate divine revelation , whereas every one may certainly know the thoughts of his own heart ; and therefore to some those things may be matters of sense or evident demenstration , which to another may be a matter of immediate revelation . . such things as relate not to future contingencies , but are matters of faith exceeding the reach of humane apprehension ; such things as may be known when revealed , but could never have been found out without immediate revelation ; such all the mysteries of our religion are , the mystery of the trinity , incarnation , hypostatical union , the death of the son of god for the pardon of the sins of mankind . now the immediate revelation of either of these two sorts of objects speaks as much a truly prophetical spirit as the prediction of future contingencies . so that this must not be looked on as the just and adequate rule to measure a spirit of prophecy by ; because the ground of judging a prophetical spirit by that , is common with other things without that , seeing other objects are out of the reach of humane understanding as well as future events , and therefore the discovery of them must immediately flow from divine revelation . . the revelation of future events to the understanding of a prophet , is never the less immediate , although the event may not be correspondent to the prediction . so that if it be manifest that god immediately reveal such future contingencies to a prophet , he would be nevertheless a true prophet whether those predictions took effect or no. for a true prophet is known by the truth of divine revelation to the person of the prophet , and not by the success of the thing , which as is laid down in the hypothesis , is no further an evidence of a true prophet then as it is an argument a posteriori to prove divine revelation by . if then the alteration of events after predictions be reconcileable with the truth and faithfulness of god , there is no question but it is with the truth of a prophetical spirit , the formality of which lies in immediate revelation . the prophets could not declare any thing more to the people then was immediately revealed unto themselves ; what was presently revealed , so much they knew and no more , because the spirit of prophecy came upon them per modum impressionis transeuntis , as the schools speak , and not per modum habitus ; the lumen propheticum was in them not as lumen in corpore lucido , but as lumen in aëre , and therefore the light of revelation in their spirits depended upon the immediate irradiations of the divine spirit . the prophets had not alwayes a power to prophecy when they would themselves ; and thence it is said when they prophesied that the word of the lord came unto them . and therefore the schools determine that a prophet upon an immediate revelation did not know omnia prophetabilia ( as they speak in their barbarous language ) all things which god might reveal ; the reason whereof aquinas thus gives ; the ground saith he , of the connexion of diverse objects together is some common tie or principle which joynes them together ; as charity or prudence is in moral vertues , and the right understanding of the principles of a science , is the ground why all things belonging to that science are understood ; but now in divine revelation , that which connects the objects of divine revelation is god himself ; now because he cannot be fully apprehended by any humane intellect , therefore the understanding of a prophet cannot comprehend all matters capable of being revealed , but only such as it pleaseth god himself freely to communicate to the prophets understanding by immediate revelation . this is further evident by all those different degrees of illumination and prophecy which the iews and other writers speak so much of , viz. of dreams and visions , the inspirations of the holy spirit , the gradus mosaicus , the external voyce , &c. now in every one of these degrees the prophet could go no further then his present revelation extended ; and therefore aquinas determines that the understandings of the prophets were instrumenta deficientia respectu principalis agentis , i. e. that in prophetical illumination the mind of the prophet was so moved by the spirit of god , as an instrument in the hand of an artificer , which bears no proportion with the skill of the workman : and therefore the mind of a prophet is moved , sometimes only to apprehend the thing represented ( which they call instinctus divinus , of which they say a prophet may have no certainty whether it comes from god or no ) sometimes it is moved so far as to know certainly that this revelation is from god ( this they call lumen propheticum ) sometimes a prophet may be moved to speak those things which he fully understands ; so it was with most of the true psophets ; but sometimes men may be moved to speak that which they understand not , as is plain in caiaphas , and probable in balaam . sometimes a thing was represented to the fancy of one without any possibility of understanding the meaning of those imaginary species , as in pharaohs and nebnchadnezzars dreams ; and to another may be given the true judgement of those motions of fancy without the representation of the things to them , as in ioseph and daniel . now in these and many other different impressions of this prophetical spirit , the prophets to whom the things were revealed , could go no further then the degree of the revelation made to them did extend . god did not always reveal to the prophets the internal counsels and decrees of his own will , but often only the method and series of his providence in the administration of things in the world . which is the ground of that three-fold distinction of prophecy in the schools into prophetia praedestinationis , prophetia praescientiae , and prophetia comminationis ; which is taken from the ordinary gloss upon matth. . where they are thus explained ; the prophecie of predestination is when the event depends wholly upon gods will without any respect to ours , as the prophecie of the incarnation of christ ; the prophecie of praescience is of such things as depend upon the liberty of mans will ; and the prophecie of commination only denotes gods denunciations of heavy judgements against a people . but aquinas doth better reduce the two former to one , and so the ground of the difference is to be fetched from the different ways whereby god knows things in the world ; which is either as they are in their causes , and so they note the order and series of things in the world , with the mutual respects and dependencies they have one upon another , and this refers to gods administration of things in the world ; or else god looks upon them as they are in themselves , or according to his own positive determinations of them ; and now in this sense they are unalterable ; but in the other they are not ; but god may alter those respects of things when he pleaseth . now though this different manner of knowledge can never be conceived separate from one another in the divine understanding , yet in the revelation made to the mind of a prophet , they may be disjoyned from each other , because god doth not always reveal things in the highest degree to the prophets ; for no free agent doth always act as far as he can . and therefore prophetical revelation is sometimes a representation of gods internal decrees , and then they always take effect , and sometimes only the order of causes and effects , and they may admit of an alteration , and the prophecie nevertheless be true , because then it referred only to the series of causes in the world according to which the events would follow if god himself did not interpose . these things being thus premised , we come to particular resolutions , which must arise from the evidences that may be given when prophetical predictions did express gods internal purpose and decree , and when only the order of causes in the world ; for in these latter it is apparent that events might not answer predictions , and yet the prophet be a true prophet : which is a matter of greater difficulty , viz. to find out the exact differences of these two , till the event hath made it apparent which came from gods unalterable purpose , and which not . but though it be a subject little spoken to either by iewish or christian writers , yet we are in hopes there may be some such clear notes of distinction discovered between them , even à priori , which may sufficiently clear gods faithfulnes , and the prophets truth , though the event be not always correspondent to the words of a prediction . i begin then with the evidences that may be given when predictions do flow from internal purpose and decree . every prediction confirmed by a present miracle , doth not express meerly the order of causes , but the determinations of gods will , because there can be no sufficient reason given why the order of causes in nature should be altered to express the dependences of things on each other ; for herein a miracle would rather ten d to weaken then strengthen faith , because the end of the miracle would be to confirm their faith as to events following upon their causes ; but now the medium used for that end seems to prove the contrary , viz. that god can alter the series of causes when he pleases himself by working miracles , and therein going contrary to the course of nature ; and therefore a miracle seems to be a very incongruous argument in this , because its self is an evidence that may be , which it comes to prove shall not be . but when prophets come to declare the internal purposes of the will of god concerning future contingencies , no argument can be more suitable to demonstrate the truth of what is spoken then the working of a present miracle ; for this demonstrates to the senses of men , that however unlikely the event may be to them which is foretold , yet with god all things are possible , and that it is very unlikely god would send such a messenger to declare a falshood , whom he entrusted so great a power with as that of working miracles . thus it was in that remarkable prophecie concerning iosias by the man of god at bethel , years before his birth , which though it were to come to pass so long after , god confirmed it by a sign , which was the renting of the altar , and the pouring out of the ashes upon it , and the withering of jeroboams hand . we cannot therefore in reason think that god would set so clear a seal , to any deed which he did intend himself to cancel afterward . praedictions express gods inward purpose when the things foretold do exceed all probabilities of second causes ; in which case , those words of tertullian seem very harsh , credo quia impossibile ; yet taking that impossibility as relating to second causes , and the ground of faith to be some divine prediction , we see what reason there may be for them : for the more unlikely the thing is to be effected by second causes , the greater evidence is it that the prophets in foretelling it did not respect the meer order of things in the world , but the unalterable counsels of the will of god , which therefore would certainly have their timely accomplishments . when therefore any prophets did foretell things above the reach of natural causes , and those things did not come to pass , it was a certain evidence of a false prophet , as the contrary was of a true one ; for none could know so long before-hand such things as were above all humane power , but such to whom god himself , who alone was able to effect them , did reveal and communicate the knowledge of them . and hence we see in scripture those predictions which have seemed to carry the greatest improbabilities with them , have had the most punctual accomplishments , as the israelites returning out of aegypt at the end of the years ; their deliverance by cyrus after the captivity in babylon , which seemed so improbable a thing , that when god speaks of it , he ushers it in with this preface , that he frustrateth the tokens of the lyars , and maketh the diviners mad , but confirmeth the word of his servant , and performeth the counsel of his messengers , that saith to ierusalem , thou shalt be inhabited , &c. the more unlikely then the thing was to come to pass , the greater evidence there was in so clear a prophecie of it so long before ( above years ) and so exact a fulfilling of it afterwards precisely at the expiring of the l x x years from the first captivity . predictions concerning future events , which are confirmed by an oath from god himself , do express the immutable determinations of gods will. for which we have the greatest assurance we can desire from that remarkable expression of the apostle to the hebrews , heb. . , . wherein god willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel , confirmed it by an oath , that by two immutable things in which it was impossible for god to lye , we might have a strong consolation , &c. wherein the apostle obviates and removes all doubts and misprisions , lest god after the declaring of his will , should alter the event foretold in it , and that he doth , both by shewing that god had made an absolute promise , and withall to prevent all doubts , lest some tacite condition might hinder performance , he tels us that god had annexed his oath to it , which two things were the most undoubted evidences of the immutability of gods counsel . the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here used , doth in scripture often note the frustrating of mens hopes and expectations ; so it is used habak . . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we render it the labour of the olive shall fail . so osea . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the new wine shall fail in her . thus the meaning here is , that by two immutable things in which it is impossible that god should frustrate the expectations of men , or alter the events of things after he had declared them . for gods oath is an evident demonstration of the immutability of his will in all predictions to which this is annexed , and doth fully exclude that which the scripture calls repenting in god , that is , doing otherwise then the words did seem to express , because of some tacite conditions understood in them . so we find psal. . , , , , , . if they break my statutes , and keep not my commandements , then will i visit their transgression with the rod , and their iniquity with stripes ; nevertheless my loving kindness will i not utterly take from him , nor suffer my faithfulness to fail ; my covenant will i not break , nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips . once have i sworn by my holiness , that i will not lye unto david . his seed shall endure for ever , and his throne as the sun before me . wherein we see what way god takes to assure us of the immutability of his covenant with his people , by the oath which he adjoyns to his promises ; whereby god doth most fully express the unalterable determinations of his own will , in that he swears by his own holiness that he would not lye unto david , i. e. that he would faithfully perform what he had promised to him . and therefore tertullian well saith , beati sumus quorum causa deus jurat , sed miseri & detestabiles si ne juranti quidem credimus . it is happy for us unbelieving creatures , that god stoops so low as to confirm his covenant with an oath ; but it will be sad and miserable for such as dare not venture their faith upon it , when god hath annexed his oath unto it . it is thought by expositors , that there is a peculiar emphasis in those words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 once have i sworn , thereby noteing the irrevocable nature of gods oath , that there is no need of repetition of it as among men , because when once god swears by himself , it is the highest demonstration that no conditions whatever shall alter his declared purpose . and therefore the council of toledo well explains the different nature of gods oath and his repentance in scriptures ; iurare namque dei est à se ordinata nullatenus convellere ; poenitere vero eadem ordinata cum voluerit immutare ; god is said to swear when he binds himself absolutely to performance ; and to repent , when things fall out contrary to the declaration of gods will concerning them ; for so it must be understood to be only mutatio sententiae , and not consilii , that the alteration may be only in the things , and not in the eternal purpose of god. but since it is evident in scripture , that many predictions do imply some tacite conditions , and many declarations of gods will do not express his internal purposes , it seemed necessary in those things which god did declare to be the irrevocable purposes of his will , there should be some peculiar mark and character set upon them for the confirmation of his peoples faith ; and this we find to be the annexing an oath to his promises . thus it is in that grand instrument of peace between god and his people , the covenant of grace , wherein god was pleased so far to strengthen the faith of his people in it , that he ratifies the articles of peace therein contained , but especially the act of grace on his own part with an oath , thereby to assure them it was never his purpose to repeal it , nor to fail of performance in it . for we are not to think that an oath layes any greater obligation upon god for performance , then the meer declaration of his will ; it being a part of immutable justice , and consequently necessarily implyed in the divine nature to perform promises when once made ; but gods oath respects us and not himself , viz. that it might be a testimony unto us that gods will thereby declared , is his eternal and unchangeable will , and so the mercies thereby promised are sure mercies ; such as are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 without any repentance on gods part . predictions made by the prophets concerning blessings meerly spiritual , do express gods internal purpose , and therefore must have their certain accomplishment in the time prefixed by the prophets . the grand reason of this proposition , is , that the be stowing of blessings meerly spiritual , doth immediately flow from the grace and favour of god , and depend not upon conditions on our part , as procuring causes of them ; and therefore there can be no account given why god should suspend the performance of such promises , which would not more strongly have held why he should not have made any such promises at all . and therefore when we see that notwithstanding the highest demerits , god made such free promises , we can have no reason to think that any other demerits interposing between the promises and performance , should hinder the accomplishment of them ; unless it be inserted in the promises themselves , which is contrary to the nature of free promises : upon this ground all the promises relating to the gospel state , and to the covenant of grace therein contained , must have their due accomplishment in the time and manner prefixed by the prophets ; and therefore the iews are miserably blind when they suppose the reason why the promise of the messias is yet deferred after so long expectation of him , is , the sins of their people ; for this seems to suppose that gods promise of the messias did depend upon their own righteousness and worthiness above all other people , which if it doth , they are like to be the most miserable and desperate people the world hath ; and besides , if gods intuition of sin makes him deferr the coming of the messias , his foresight of sin would have hindred him from ever promising a messias to come ; but this was so far from being a hinderance of gods promise , that the main end of the coming of the messias was to make reconciliation for iniquity , and to make an end of sin , and to bring in everlasting righteousness . and we see where-ever the prophets insist on the covenant of grace , the great promise contained in it is the blotting out of transgressions , and remembring sins no more , and that meerly on the account of gods free love and for his own names sake : this can be no reason then why predictions concerning spiritual blessings should not have their exact accomplishment , because there can be no bar against free love , and the bestowing of such mercies which do suppose the greatest unworthiness of them , as gospel blessings do . the great difficulty lyes in explaining the prophetical phrases concerning the gospel state , which seem to intimate a greater advancement and flourishing of peace and holiness therein , then hath as yet been seen in the christian world ; which gives the iews the greater occasion to imagine that the state so much spoken of by the prophets , is not yet established in the world . but all the difficulty herein ariseth from the want of consideration of the idiotisms of the prophetical language , especially where it respects the state of things under the gospel , concerning which , we may observe these following rules . the prophets under the old testament , when they speak of things to come to pass in the new , do set them forth by the representation of such things as were then in use among themselves ; thus the spiritual worship of the gospel is prophecyed of , under the notion of the legal worship among the iews ; the conversion of aegypt to the gospel , is foretold isaiah . , . by the setting up of an altar , and offering sacrifice to the lord ; and the conversion of the gentiles in general , by the offering up of incense , malach. . . and the service of god under the gospel , is set forth by going up to jerusalem , and keeping the feast of tabernacles there , zach. . . and the plentiful effusion of the spirit of god in the miraculous gifts which attended the preaching of the gospel , is set forth by the prophet , ioel . by prophecying , and dreaming dreams , and seeing visions ; not that these things should really be under gospel times ; but that the prophets meaning might be the better understood by those he spake unto , he sets forth the great measure of gifts and gospel light under those things which were accounted as the highest attainments among themselves . so the great measure and degree of holiness which was to be under gospel times , is set forth by the prophet zachary , zach. . . by the placing of the motto which was among the iews only upon the high priests fore-head , that this should be so common under the gospel , that even the bells of the horses should bear it , i. e. those things which seem most remote from a spiritual use , should be devoted to it , as the bells were , which were commonly hanged upon their war-horses in those mountainous countries ; and in the latter part of that verse , the height and progress of gospel holiness is described under that phrase , that the pots in the lorás house should be as bowls before the altar , i. e. should be advanced from a lower and more ignoble service , to a higher and more spiritual degree of holiness . now the iews when they observe these and many other prophetical passages relating to the time of the messias to run in the old strain of the law , they presently conclude that the messias must not innovate any thing concerning their way of worship , but only be some great prince to give them temporal deliverances , and so expound all these texts in a litteral sense , which were only expressed in such a strain , the better to help the capacities of those they spake them to . things absolutely foretold to come to pass in gospel times in a general manner , are to be understood comparatively in reference to what was before . for when the measure of either grace or knowledge was so far above what was then among the iews , that there was scarce any proportion between them , the prophets made use of such expressions to set it forth by , which might raise up the dull apprehension of the iews to conceive the just measure and fullness of it . thus when the prophets fore-tell the grand increase of spiritual knowledge in gospel times , they do it in this phrase , th●y shall not teach every man his neighbour , and every man his brother , saying , know the lord ; for all shall know me from the least to the greatest , ierem. . , where it was far from the prophets meaning to exclude all use of teaching under the gospel , ( which is contrary to the end of all the ordinances of the gospel ) but because teaching doth commonly suppose great ignorance , he sets forth the abundance of knowledge which should be then , by the exclusion of that which doth imply it . so when it is said that they shall all be taught of god , the meaning is not , that every one that lives in the gospel state , should be thus effectually taught by the spirit of god ; but that the number of such under the gospel , should so far exceed those under the law , that they could hardly apprehend the disproportion between them , unless it had been set forth in so large an expression . which leads me to the next rule . things fore-told as universally or indefinitely to come to pass under the gospel , are to be understood as to the duty of all , but as to the event only of gods chosen people . thus when there is so great peace prophecyed to be in gospel times , that then men should beat their swords into plow-shears , and spears into pruning-hooks ; that the woolf should lie down with the lamb , and leopard with the kid ; that nation should not lift up sword against nation , nor learn war any more ; with many others to the same purpose ; all these speeches are to be understood of what the nature and design of the gospel tends to , and what is the duty of all that profess it , and what would effectually be in the christian world , did all that profess the christian doctrine , heartily obey the dictates of it ; and so far as the gospel doth prevail upon any , it so far cicurates their wild and unruly natures , that of furious wolves they become innocent lambs , and of raging lyons , tender kids ; so far from hurting and injuring others , that they dare not entertain any thoughts of ill will or revenge towards their greatest enemies . and thus we may see , that notwithstanding the seeming repugnancies of the prophecyes of the old testament concerning the state of the new , with the events which have been observed in it , yet that all those predictions which concerned the bestowing of the spiritual blessings which concerned the gospel state , have had their punctual accomplishment in the sense they were intended . predictions concerning future events where not only the thing its self is foretold but the several circumstances of persons , time , and place enumerated , are to have their due accomplishment , and consequently express gods inward purposes . for those promises or comminations which are capable of alteration by some tacite conditions implyed in them , do most commonly run in general terms ; or else are spoken by way of immediate address to the persons concerned in order to the stirring them up the more to the duty god aims at by those comminations ; as when ionas limited the ninivites d●struction to forty dayes . but when prophecies are recorded , not by way of commination but meer prediction , and particular circumstances set down , it stands to reason that such prophecies must have their certain accomplishment ; and that first , because god by setting down the circumstances would give them greater evidences that the predictions came from himself ; as when the prophet at bethel not only foretold the destruction of the altar there , but particularly named the man that should do it , viz. iosias . so when god by isaiah called cyrus by name , it was doubtless a great confirmation to them , that the deliv●rance of the iews should be by that person . secondly , because these circumstances are intended for landmarks to know the certainty of the accomplishment of the prophecy . for when they finde the circumstances fall out exactly according to prediction , they have no ground to question the accomplishment of the substance of the prophecy . and hence it was that in the grand prophecy of the coming of the messias all particular circumstances were so long before foretold . the first dawning of his day being to adam after his fall , when the nature he should be born of was foretold , viz. not angelical but humane , of the seed of the woman . to abraham it was further revealed of what nation of mankind , viz. from his posterity ; to iacob at what time , when the scepter should be departed from judah ; and from what tribe , viz. iudah ; to david of what family in that tribe , viz. his own ; to isaiah of what person in that family , a virgin ; to micah in what place , viz. bethlehem ; and to daniel , at what precise time , toward the expiring of his seventy weeks ; which according to to the most probable computation of them did comm●nce from the seventh year of artaxerxes longimanus , and so the . years expired near upon our saviours passion . now certainly the particular enumeration of all these circumstances spoken of so long before , and falling out so exactly , they could not but give the greatest conviction and evidence , that our blessed saviour was that person so much spoken of by the prophets , in whom all these several lines did meet as in their center . lastly , predictions then express divine purposes when many proph●ts in several ages concur in the same predictions ; because it is hardly seen but all those tacite conditions which are supposed in general promises or comminations may be altered in different ages ; but when the conditions alter and the continue●he ●he same , it is a stronger evidence it is some immutable counsel of god which is expressed in those predictions . and in this case one prediction confirms the foregoing , as the iews say of prophets ; one prophet that hath the testimony of another prophet , is supposed to be true ; but it must be with this supposition , that the other prophet was before approved to be a true prophet . now both these meet in the prophecyes concerning our saviour ; for to him bear all the prophets witness ; and in their several ages they had several things revealed to them concerning him ; and the uniformity and perfect harmony of all these several prophecyes by persons at so great distance from each other , and being of several interests and imployments , and in several places , yet all giving light to each other , and exactly meeting at last in the accomplishment , do give us yet a further and clearer evidence that all those several beams came from the same sun , when all those scattered rayes were at last gath●red into one body again at the appearance of the sun of righteousness in the world . thus have we now cleared when predictions are expressive of gods internal purposes , by observation of which rules we may easily resolve the other part of the disficulty when they only express the series and dependencies of things which would have their issue and accomplishment if god by his immediate hand of providence did not cut off the entail of effects upon their natural causes . now as to these prophecyes which concern things considered in themselves , and not precisely as they are in the counsel of god , we are to observe these rules . . comminations of judgements to come do not in themselves speak the absolute futurity of the event , but do only declare what the persons to whom they are made are to expect , and what shall certainly come to pass , unless god by his mercy interpose between the threatning and the event . so that comminations do speak only the debitum poenae and the necessary obligation to punishment ; but therein god doth not bind up himself as he doth in absolute promises ; the reason is because comminations confer no right to any , which absolute promises do ; and therefore god is not bound to necessary performance of what he threatens . indeed the guilt , or obligation to punishment is necessary , where the offence h●● been committed to which the threatning was annexed ; but the execution of that punishment doth still depend upon gods arbitrarious will , and therefore he may suspend or remove it upon serious addresses made to himself in order to it . for since god was pleased not to take the present forfeiture of the first grand transgression , but made such a relaxation of that penall law , that conditions of pardon were admittable , notwithstanding sentence passed upon the malefactors , there is a strong ground of presumption in humane nature that gods forbearance of mankind notwithstanding sin , doth suppose his readiness to pardon offenders upon their repentance , and therefore that all particular threatnings of judgements to come do suppose incorrigibleness in those they are pronounced against : upon which the foundation of hope is built , that if timely repentance do intervene , god will remove those judgements which are threatned against them . and this was certainly the case of the ninivites upon ionas his preaching among them . for when the threatning was so peremptory , yet forty dayes and ninive shall be destroyed , all the hope they could have of pardon must be from the general perswasions of mens souls of gods readiness to remove judgements upon repentance . for otherwise there had been no place for any thing but despair , and not the least encouragement to supplicate the mercy of god , which we see they did in a most solemn manner after they were convinced these comminations came from god himself by the mouth of his prophet . some think that ionas together with the threatning of judgement did intermix exhortations to repentance ; but we can finde no probability at all for that on these two accounts ; first , ionas then would not have been so unwilling to have undertaken this message ; for as far as we can see , the harshness of it was the main reason he sought to have avoided it by flying to tarshish . secondly , ionas would have had no pretence at all for his anger and displeasure at gods pardoning ninive ; which is most probably conceived to have been , because the ninivites might now suspect him to be no true prophet , because the event answered not his prediction . now there had been no reason at all for this , if he had mixed promises together with his threatnings ; for then nothing would have falln out contrary to his own predictions . and therefore it seems evident that the message ionas was sent with , was only the commination of their speedy ruine , which god did on purpose to awaken them the sooner and with the greater earnestness to repentance , when the judgement was denounced in so peremptory a manner ; although it seems ionas had before such apprehensions of the merciful nature of god and his readiness to pardon , that he might suppose gods intention by this severe denunciation of judgement , might be only to take occasion upon their repentance to shew his goodness and bounty to them . but this was no part of his instructions , which he durst not go beyond in his preaching , what ever his private opinion might be : for the prophets were to utter no more in their preaching or particular messages then was in their commission , and were not to mix their own words with the word of the lord. and by this we may further understand the denunciation of death to hezekiah by the prophet isaiah , set thy house in order , for thou shalt dye and not live . i question not but the prophet revealed to hezekiah as much as god had revealed to him ( for to say as molinaeus doth , that the prophet spake these words of his own head before he fully understood gods mind , is very harsh and incongruous ) but god might at first discover to isaiah not his internal purpose , but what the nature of the disease would bring him to ( unless his own immediate hand of providence interposed ) which message he would have isaiah carry to hezekiah for the tryal of his faith , and exciting him to the more lively acts of grace , and for a further demonstration of gods goodness to him in prolonging his life beyond humane probability and the course of second causes . now what repugnancy is there to the truth and faithfulness of god , that god should conceal from his prophets in their messages the internal purposes of his will , and in order to the doing good to men should only reveal what would certainly have come to pass unless himself had otherwise determind it . and thus the repentance which is attributed to god in reference to these denunciations of judgements , is far from importing any real mutation in the internal purposes of god ( a rock some have split themselves upon ) but it only signifies the outward changing of the scene towards men , and acting otherwise then the words of the prophets did seem to import ; and all the alteration is in the outward discovery of his will , which is certainly far from being any collusion in god : unless we must suppose god so bound up that he hath no liberty of using his own methods for bringing men to repentance , or for tryal of his peoples graces , but must in every instance of his word declare nothing but his own internal purposes , which is contrary to the general method of gods dealing with the world , which is to govern men by his own laws , and thereby to awaken them to duty , and deterre from sin by his annexed threatnings , without revealing any thing of his internal purposes concerning the state and condition of any particular persons at all : which threatnings of his though pronounced with the greatest severity , do not speak gods inward resolutions as to any particular person , but what all must expect if they continue impenitent and incorrigible . for the only condition implyed in these threatnings being repentance , it necessarily follows that where that is wanting , these hypothetical comminations are absolute predictions of what shall certainly come to pass on all those who are destitute of the condition supposed in them . so that where any comminations are pronounced by any in a prophetical way concerning any person or people , and no alteration happen at all in them , but they continue impenitent and incorrigible , there the not coming of them to pass may be a token of a false prophet . for in this case the only tacite condition implyed in these threatening prophecies is supposed to be wanting , and so the comminations must be understood as absolute predictions : now in those comminations in scripture , which are absolutely expressed , but conditionally understood , we find something interposing , which we may rationally suppose was the very condition understood . as abimelechs restoring of sarah was the ground why the sentence of death after it was denounced , was not executed upon him : so ahabs humiliation , hezekiah his earnest prayer , the ninivites repentance , all interposed between sentence and execution , whereby we may be fully satisfied of the reason why these denunciations did not take effect : but where the persons continue the same after threatnings that they were before , there is no reason why the sentence should be suspended , unless we should suppose it to be a meer effect of the patience and long-suffering of god , leading men to repentance and amendment of life : which is the ground the iews give , why the not fulfilling of denunciations of judgement was never accounted sufficient to prove a man a false prophet ; to which purpose these words of maimonides are observable in his iesude th●rah , where he treats particularly on the subject of prophecies . if a prophet foretel sad things , as the death of any one , or famine , or war , or the like , if these things come not to pass , he shall not be accounted a false prophet ; neither let them say , hehold he hath foretold , and it comes not to pass ; for eurblessed god is slow to anger , and rich in mercy . and repenteth of the evil ; and it may be that they repent , and god may spare them , as he did the ninivites , or defer the punishment , as he did hezekiah's . thus we see that prophetical comminations do not express gods internal purposes , and therefore the event may not come to pass , and yet the prophet be a true prophet . . predictions concerning temporal blessings , do not always absolutely speak the certainty of the event , but what god is ready to do if they to whom they are made continue faithful to him : for which we have sufficient ground from that place of ieremiah , . , . at what instant i shall speak concerning a kingdom , to build and to plant it ; if it do evil in my sight , that it obey not my voice , then will i repent of the good wherewith i said i would benefit them . so isaiah . , . if ye be willing and obedient , ye shall eat the good of the land ; but if ye refuse and rebel , ye shall be devoured with the sword ; for the mouth of the lord hath spoken it . whereby we see it evident , that all promises of temporal blessings are not to be taken absolutely , but with the condition of obedience . but this the iews can by no means digest , whose rule is , that all prophecies of good things to come must necessarily come to pass , or he was no true prophet who spake them : for saith maimon . whatever good thing god hath promised , although it be promised under a condition , he never revokes it ; and we never find that god repented him of any good thing promised , but in the destruction of the first temple , when god had promised to the right●ous they should not die with the wicked ; but it repented him of his words . but it is very plain to any one that considers the iewish interpretations of scripture , that in them they have always an eye to themselves , and will be sure not to understand those scriptures which seem to thwart their own interest , as is most apparent in the present case ; for the grand reason why the iews insist so much on the punctual accomplishment of all promises of good to be the sign of a true prophet , is to uphold their own interest in those temporal blessings which are prophecyed of concerning them in the old testament ; although one would think the want of correspondency in the event in reference to themselves , might make them a little more tender of the honour of those prophecies which they acknowledge to be divine ; and have appeared to be so in nothing more then the full accompllshmen● of all those threatnings which are denounced against them for their disobedience , even by the mouth of moses himself , deut. . from the . to the end . can any thing be more plain and evident , then that the enjoyment of all the priviledges conferred upon them , did depend upon the condition of their continuing faithful to gods covenant ? the only place of scripture produced by them with any plausibility , is that , ierem. . . the prophet which prophecieth of peace , when the word of the prophet shall come to pass , then shall the prophet be known that the lord hath truly sent him . for reconciling of which place with those already mentioned , we are to understand that here was a particular contest between two prophets , hananiah and ieremiah ; ieremiah he foretold evil to come , though unwillingly , v . hananiah he prophecied peace . now ieremiah , according to gods peculiar directions and inspiration , appeals to the event to determine whose prophecie was the truest : now saith jeremiah , if the prophecy of hananiah concerning peace be fulfilled , then he is the true prophet and i the false . and in this case when two prophets prophecy contrary things , it stands to reason that god will not reveal any thing by the mouth of his own prophet which shall not infallibly come to pass , that thereby the truth of his own prophet may be fully manifested . besides ieremiah refers not meerly to the event foretold , but gives a sudden specimon of his own truth in another prophecy concerning the death of hananiah , which was punctually accomplished the same year , ver . . and which is most considerable to our purpose , both these prophets considered the same people under the same circumstances , and with the same conditions ; and so ieremiah because of their incorrigibleness foretells desolation certainly to come ; notwithstanding this , hananiah foretells peace and safety , which was contrary directly to gods method of proceeding , and so the falsity of his prophecy would infallibly be discovered by the event . so that notwithstanding this instance it appears evident that predictions of temporal blessings do suppose conditions , and so have not alwayes the event fulfilled , when the people do not perform their condition of obedience . and thus we have now laid down the rules whereby the truth of prophecyes was to be judged ; by which it appears what little need the constant prophets had to appeal to miracles to manifest the certainty of divine revelation in them . so we have finished our first proposition concerning the manner of trying divine revelation in the prophets god sent among his people . we now come to the second general proposition concerning the prophets . those prophets whom god did imploy upon some extraordinary message for confirming the truth of the religion established by him , had a power of miracles conferd upon them in order to that end . so that we must distinguish the ordinary imployment of prophets which was either instruction or prediction of future events among gods own people , from their peculiar messages when they were sent to give evidence to the truth of that way of religion which was then setled by gods own appointment . now the prophets generally did suppose the truth of their religion as owned by those they were sent to , and therefore it had been very needless imploying a power of miracles among them to convince them of that which they believed already . for we never read among all the revolts of the people of the iews that they were lapsed so far as totally to reject the law of moses , ( which had been to alter the constitution of their commonwealth ) although they did enormously offend against the precepts of it , and that in those things wherein the honour of god was mainly concernd , as is most plain in their frequent and gross idolatry : which we are not so to understand as though they wholly cast off the worship of the true god , but they superinduced ( as the samaritans did ) the worship of heathen idols with that of the god of israel . but when the revolt grew so great and dangerous that it was ready to swallow up the true worship of god , unless some apparent evidence were given of the falsity of those heathen mixtures , and further confirmation of the truth of the established religion , it pleased god sometimes to send his prophets on this peculiar message to the main instruments of this revolt : as is most conspicuous in that dangerous design of ieroboam , when he out of a politick end set up his two calves in opposition to the temple at ierusalem ; and therein it was the more dangerous in that in all probability he designed not the alteration of the worship it self , but the establishment of it in dan and bethel . for his interest lay not in drawing of the people from the worship of god , but from his worship at ierusalem , which was contrary to his design of cantonizing the kingdom , and taking the greatest share to himself . now that god might confirm his peoples faith in this dangerous juncture of time he sends a prophet to bethel , who by the working of present miracles there , viz. the renting the altar and withering of jeroboams hand , did manifest to them that these altars were displeasing to god , and that the true place of worship was at ierusalem . so in that famous fire-ordeal for trying the truth of religion between god and baal upon mount carmel by elijah , god was pleased in a miraculous way to give the most pr●gnant testimony to the truth of his own worship , by causing a fire to come down from heaven and consume the sacrifice , by which the priests of baal were confounded and the people confirmed in the belief of the only true god ; for presently upon the sight of this miracle the people fall on their faces and say the lord he is god , the lord he is god. whereby we plainly see what clear evidence is given to the truth of that religion which is attested with a power of miracles . thus the widdow of sarepta which was in the country of zidon , was brought to believe elijah to be a true prophet by his raising up her son to life . and the woman said to elijah , now by this i know that thou art a man of god , and that the word of the lord by thy mouth is truth . so we see how naaman was convinced of the true god by his miraculous cure in iordan by the appointment of elisha , behold now i know that there is no god in all the earth but in israel ; by which instances it is demonstrable that either the faith of all these persons was built upon weak and insufficient grounds , or that a power of miracles is an evident confirmation of the truth of that religion which is established by them . for this we see was the great end for which god did improve any of his prophets to work miracles , viz. to be as an evident demonstration of the truth of what was revealed by him . so that this power of miracles is not meerly a motive of credibility , or a probable inducement to remove prejudice from the person , as many of our divines speak , but it doth contain an evident demonstration to common sense of the truth of that religion which is confirmed by them . and thus we assert it to have been in the case of moses , the truth of whose message was attested both among the aegyptians and the israelites by that power of miracles which he had . but herein we have the great patrons of moses our greatest enemies , viz the present iews ; who by reason of their emnity to the doctrine of christ which was attested by unparalleld miracles , are grown very shy of the argument drawn from thence : in so much that their great dr. maimonides layes down this for a confident maxime 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the israelites did not believe in moses our master for the sake of the miracles which he wrought . did they not ? the more shame for them : and if they did , the more shame for this great rabbi thus to bely them . but the reason he gives for it is , because there may remain some suspition in ones mind , that all miracles may be wrought by a power of magick or incantation : say you so ? what when moses confounded all the magicians in aegypt , and made themselves who were the most cunning in these things confess it was the finger of god , and at last give out as not able to stand before moses ? might one still suspect all this to be done by a magical power ? credat iudaeus apella , non ego . this is much like what another of their doctors sayes , whom they call the divine philosopher , that elisha his raising the child to life , and curing naamans leprosie ; and daniels escaping the lions , and ionas out of the whales belly , might all come to pass by the influence of the stars , or by pythonisme . very probable ! but it is most true which vortius there observes of the iews , nibil non nugacissimi mortalium fingunt ne cogantur agnoscere virtute ac digito quasi ipsius dei iesum nostrum effecisse miracula sua . all their design in this , is only to elevate the miracles of our blessed saviour , and to derogate all they can from the belief of them . hence they tell us that nothing is so easie to be done as miracles ; the meer recital of the tetragrammaton will work wonders , & that by this ieremiah and our saviour did all their miracles : it is well yet that he did more then one of their own prophets had done before him ; but where i wonder do we read that ever the pronouncing of four letters raised one from the dead who had lain four dayes in the grave ? or by what power did christ raise himself from the dead , ( which was the greatest miracle of all ) could his dead body pronounce the tetragrammaton to awaken its self with ? but maimonides further tells us that the miracles which moses wrought among the israelites were meerly for necessity , and not to prove the truth of his divine commission , for which he instanceth in dividing the red sea , the raining of manna , and the destruction of corah and his complices . but setting aside that these two latter were the immediate hand of god and not miracles done by moses , yet it is evidence that the intent of them was to manifest a divine presence among them ; and in the tryal of corah moses appeals to gods immediate provid●nce to manifest whether god had immediately imployed him or no. for it is evident by the text that the main charge they laid against moses was ambition and usurpation ; is it a small thing , say they , that thou hast brought us up out of a land that floweth with milk and honey , to kill us in the wilderness , except thou make thy self altogether a prince over us ? whereby it is evident they thought that moses acted out of a private design , and aimed at his own honour and authority ; which was an imputation of the highest nature that could be alledged against him . now see how moses proceeds to clear himself , ( which is sufficient to stop the mouths of these incredulous iews ) for he layes the greatest evidence of his divine commission upon a present miracle . and moses said , hereby shall ye know that the lord hath sent me to do all these works ; for i have not done them of mine own mind , if these men dye the common death of all men , then the lord hath not sent me , &c. can any thing be more plain then that the only intent of this miracle was to make it appear that moses took not his office upon him , but was immediately sent and imployed by god in what he did . but that which will put an end to this controversie is gods giving moses a power to work miracles for that very end that the israelites should believe him , exodus . , . and can we think they would have ever left aegypt as they did and followed moses into the wilderness , unless they had been fully convinced he was a deliverer sent from god ? it is true ( that which the iews speak so much of ) the statio in monte sina was a great consirmation both to their own faith and to moses his according to what god had told him , exod. . . but yet it follows not hence they had no firm bottom for their faith to stand on before ( for then they might have been drowned in the red sea as well as the aegyptians ) but god knowing their incredulity and readiness to disobey his law , did at the promulgation of it testifie to their eyes and ears his own presence in the midst of them . and this certainly was one of the greatest miracles of all ; and therefore to oppose this to the evidence that is produced by miracles , is only to oppose a power of working miracles to a power of doing them . so vain and empty then , so false and fallacious , yea so directly contrary to holy scripture is that axiome of the iews , prophetiae verit as non confirmatur miraculis : for miracles are sufficient evidences of divine revelation in any whom god imployes to all but such as are resolved not to believe them ; and as one well saith , pertinaciae nullum remedium posuit deus ; god never works miracles to convince obstinate atheists and wilfull infidels . this now is the first case wherein miracles are to be expected , which is , when god imployes any upon an extraordinary message , to be as credentials to confirm their divine commission . chap. vii . the eternity of the law of moses discussed . the second case wherein miracles may be expected , when a divine positive law is to be repealed , and another way of worship established in stead of it . the possibility in general of a repeal of a divine law asserted ; the particular case of the law of moses disputed against the iews : the matter of that law proved not to be immutably obligatory ; because the ceremonial precepts were required not for themselves , but for some further end ; that proved from maimonides his confession : the precepts of the ceremonial law frequently dispensed with while the law was in force . of the passeover of hezekiah , and several other instances . it is not inconsistent with the wisdom of god to repeal such an established law. abravanels arguments answered . of the perfection of the law of moses , compared with the gospel . whether god hath ever declared he would never repeal the law of moses . of adding to the precepts . of the expressions seeming to imply the perpetuity of the law of moses . reasons assigned why those expressions are used , though perpetuity be not implyed . the law of moses not built upon immutable reason , because many particular precepts were founded upon particular occasions , as the customs of the zabii ; many ceremonial precepts thence deduced out of maimonides ; and because such a state of things was foretold , with which the observation of the ceremonial law would be inconsistent . that largely discovered from the prophecyes of the old testament . i now come to the second case wherein miracles may be justly expected , which is , when something which hath been before established by divine law , is to be repealed , and some other way of worship to be set up in stead of it . two things are very necessary to be spoken to for the clearing of this proposition ; first , whether a law once established by god himself be capable of a repeal ; secondly , what necessity there is of miracles to manifest gods intention of repealing a former law. these two contain the main foundation of the dispute between the iews and us , viz. whether the law of moses was ever to be laid aside , and whether the miracles of our blessed saviour were sufficient evidences of gods intention by him to repeal the former law established by moses ? i begin with the first , whether a divine law in general , or the law of moses in particular may be abrogated or repealed , after god himself hath made it evident that the promulgation of it was from himself . this must be confessed the strongest and most plausible plea the present iews have for their infidelity , and therefore the eternity of the law of moses , is made by them one of the fundamental articles of their present creed , and is pleaded for with the greatest subtilty by their great r. abravan●l , who spends his whole . chapter de capite fidei upon it , but with what success , will be seen in our clearing of it . there are but three things can be supposed as the grounds why a law once promulged by god himself , should not be capable of repeal ; and those are either first , because the things themselves commanded in that law are of such a nature , that they are not capable of being dispensed with : or secondly , that it is not consistent with the wisdom of god to repeal a law once established : or thirdly , that the reason of the law continuing always the same , it would argue mutability in god to revoke that law , and establish another instead of it : if we can therefore demonstrate , that the matter of the law of moses is of a positive and mutable nature , that it is suitable to the wisdom of god to alter it , and that sufficient account in reason may be given for the alteration of it , then there can be no imaginable necessity that a law once having god for his author , must therefore derive from him an eternal and immutable obligation . first then as to the matter of the law ; and here it must be supposed , that in the matter of controversie between us and the iews , the question is not of any of those things which are therefore commanded , because they are intrinsecally good , as the precepts of the natural or moral law , but of those things which are therefore only good , because god commands them , i. e. things meerly positive , whose worth and value ariseth not from the intrinsick weight of the things , but from the external impress of divine authority upon them . now it is no question on either hand whether god may require these things or no , nor whether these things will be acceptable unto god , so long as he requires them ; but whether , when once required , the obligation to them can never cease . such kind of things among the iews we suppose all the rites and ceremonies of the law to be ; viz. circumcision , distinction of meats and days , customes of sacrificing , and such like , and whatever other laws respected them as a distinct and peculiar common-wealth . all these we say are such as do not carry an immutable obligation along with them ; and that on these accounts . first , because these things are not primarily required for themselves , but in order to some further end . things that are required upon their own account , carry an indispensable obligation in them to their performance ; but where things are commanded not for themselves , but the legislator doth express some particular grounds of requiring them , there the end and intention of the legislator is the measure of their obligation . to which purpose maimonides excellently speaks when he saith , that the particular manner of worship among the jews , as sacrifices and oblations , were secundum intentionem secundam dei , gods secondary intention and design ; but prayer , invocation , and the like , were nearer gods primary intention : now , saith he , for the first , they are no further acceptable to god , then as all the circumstances of time , place , and persons are observed , which are prescribed by god himself ; but the latter are acceptable in any person , time , or place . and for this cause , saith he , it is that we find the prophets often reproving men for their too great sedulity in bringing oblations , and inculcating this to them , that god did not intend these as the principal instances of his worship , and that god did not need any of these things . so sam. . . behold to obey is better then sacrifice , and to hearken , then the fat of rams : isa. . . to what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me ? saith the lord. and especially ierem. . , . for i spake not to your fathers , nor commanded them in the day that i brought them forth out of the land of aegypt , concerning burnt-offerings ; but this thing i commanded them , saying . obey my voice , and i will be your god , and ye shall be my people . of which words maimonides saith , scrupulum moverunt omnibus , quos mihi videre aut audire contigit ; for say they , how can it be that god did not commandthem concerning sacrifices , when great part of the law is about them ? but maimonides well resolves the doubt thus , that gods primary intention , and that which he chiefly looked at was obedience ; but gods intention in sacrifices and oblations , was only to teach them the chief thing , which was obedience . this then is of the number of those things which are spoken absolutely , but to be understood comparatively , as , i will have mercy and not sacrifice . my doctrine is not mine , but his that sent me . it is not you that speak , but the holy ghost , &c. so that we see all the goodness which is in these things , is conveyed into them by that which is morally good , which is obedience ; and god did never regard the performance of those laws any further then as it was an expression of obedience ; and it was conjoyned with those other moral duties which were most agreeable to the divine nature . and in this sense many understood that difficult place , ezek. . . and i gave them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 statutes that were not good , i. e. say they , comparatively with these things which were simply and in themselves good ; to which purpose they give this rule , aliquid negatur inesse alicui , quod alterius comparatione existimatur exiguum . but i rather think that which the chaldee paraphrast suggests , and others explain further , to be the meaning of that place , viz. that by the precepts that were not good , is meant the cruel and tyrannical impositions of those enemies god for their sins did deliver them over to , which were far from being acceptable to them , which is frequently the sense of good in scripture . thus we see one reason why the ceremonial precepts do not in themselves imply an immutable obligation , because they are not commanded for themselves , but in order to a further end . because god hath frequently dispensed with the ceremonial precepts when they were in greatest force , if the end of them could be attained without them . thus the precept of circumcision slept during the israelites travels in the wilderness . thus david eat of the shew-bread , which is expresly forbidden in the law ; the iews think to evade this by distinguishing between the bread of confession in the eucharistical offering mentioned levit. . . and the proper shew-bread : now they say david eat only of the first , and not of the second ; but this is glossa aurelianensis , which overthrows the text ; for it is expresly said , that the ground why the priest gave him holy bread , was because there was none there but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the shew-bread , sam. . . a like violation of the law without reproof , is commonly supposed by the iews to have been in the siege of iericho , viz. in the case of the sabbath . but it is more plain in that anomalous passeover observed by hezekiah , which many of the iews themselves acknowledge was not observed as the second passeover provided by the law to be celebrated on the day of the second moneth by those who were debarred of the first for their legal uncleanness ; but they suppose it to have been intended for the legal passeover ; only because the fourteenth of nisan was passed before the sanctification of the temple was finished , lest they should celebrate none at all that year , they tell us that hezekiah with the consent of the rulers , did make an intercalation that year of a whole moneth , and so nisan was reckoned for the second adar . and iiar for nisan , from whence they say that hezekiah did intercalate nisan in nisan , that is , added another nisan to the first . but where do we read any such thing permitted in the law as the celebrating the first passeover the of the second moneth ? but granting that it was observed as a second passeover , because of the want of legal sanctification both in priests and people ; yet we find great irregularities in the observation of it ; for it is expresly said , that a multitude of the people had not cleansed themselves , yet they did eat the passeover otherwise then it was written . and yet it is said upon hezekiah's prayer , that the lord hearkened to hezekiah , and healed every one . so that we see god himself did dispense with the strict ceremonial precepts of the law , where men did look after the main and substantial parts of the worship god required from them . nay god himself hath expresly declared his own will to dispense with the ritual and ceremonial law , where it comees to stand in competition with such things as have an internal goodness in them , when he saith he desired mercy and not sacrifice , and the knowledge of god more then burnt-offerings . thus we plainly see that the ceremonial law , however positive it was , did yield as to its obligation , when any thing that was moral , stood in competition with it . and so the iews themselves suppose an open violation of the judicial law to have been in the hanging up of sauls sons a long time together , directly contrary to deut. . . which they conceive to have been from the . of nisan to the . of marchesvan , which is as much as from our march to september , whereas the law saith expresly that the body of one that is hanged shall not remain all night upon the tree , but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day . one of the iewish rabbies , as g. vorstius tells us , is so troubled at this , that he wisheth that place in samuel expunged out of scripture , that the name of god might be sanctified . but whether this were done 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by the command of the oracle or no , or whether only by a general permission , we see it was acceptable unto god ; for upon that the gibeonites famine was removed , and god was intreated for the land. thus we have now proved that there is no immutable and indispensable obligation which ariseth from the things themselves . secondly , it is no ways inconsistent with the wisdom of god to repeal such a law when once established . the main argument of that learned r. abravanel , whereby he would establish the eternity of the law of moses , is fetched from hence , that this law was the result of the wisdom of god , who knows the suitableness of things he appoints to the ends he appoints them for , as god hath appointed bread to be the food of mans body : now we are not to enquire why god hath appointed bread and no other thing to be the food of man ; no more , saith he , are we to enquire why god hath appointed this law rather then another for the food of our souls ; but we are to rest contented with the counsels of god , though we understand not tht reasons of them . this is the substance of that argument , which he more largely deduceth . to which we answer , that his argument holds good for obedience to all gods positive precepts of what kind or nature soever they be , so long as we know their obligation to continue ; but all the question is , whether every positive precept must always continue to oblige . and thus far his similitude will hold good , that whatever god doth command , we are to look upon it to be as necessary to our souls , as bread to our bodies ; but hence it follows not that our souls must be always held to the same positive precepts , any more then our bodies to the same kind of food . nay , as in our bodies we find some kind of food always necessary , but the kind of it to alter according to age , health , and constitutions ; so we say some kind of divine revelation is always necessary ; but god is graciously pleased to temper it according to the age and growth of his people ; so he fed them as with milk in their nonage , with a ritual and ceremonial law , and trained them up by degrees under the nursery of the prophets , till the church was grown to age , and then god fed it with the strong meat which is contained in gods revelation of his will by the gospel of his son. and therein was abundantly seen gods 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , his variegated wisdom , that he made choise of such excellent and proportionable wayes to his peoples capacity to prepare them gradually for that full and compleat revelation which was reserved for the time of the appearance of the true messias in the world . for can any thing be more plain then the gradual progress of divine revelation from the beginning of the world ? that fair resemblance and portraicture of god himself , and his will upon his word ( if i may so express it ) had its ground work laid upon mans first apostacy , in the promise made gen. . . whereon some further lines were drawn in the times of the patriarchs ; but it had its 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it was shadowed out the most in the typical and ceremonial law , but was never filled up to the life , nor had its perfect 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , till the son of god himself appeared unto the world . if then it be inconsistent with the wisdom of god to add any thing to the law of moses , why not to the revelation made to adam or the patriarchs ? or especially to the seven precepts of noah , which they suppose to have been given to all mankind after the flood ? if it were not repugnant to the wisdom of god to superadd rituals and ceremonials to morals and naturals , why shall it be to take down the scaffolds of ceremonies , when gods spiritual temple the church of god is come to its full height ? is there not more reason that rituals should give place to substantials , then that such should be superinduced to morals ? there are only two things can be pleaded by the iewes why it should be more repugnant to the wisdom of god to add to the law of moses , then to any former revelation , which are the greater perfection they suppose to be in this revelation above others , and that god in the promulgation of it did express that he would never alter it . but both these are manifestly defective and insufficient in order to the end for which they are produced . for first , what evidence is there that the law of moses contained so great perfection in it , as that it was not capable of having any additions made to it by god himself ? we speak not now of the perfection of the moral law , which it is granted contained in it the foundation of all positive precepts ; for this we never contend for the abrogation of , but the ritual law is that we meddle with ; and is it possible any men should be so little befriended by reason as to think this to be the utmost pitch of what god could reveal to the world as to the way of his own worship ? let any indifferent rational person take the precepts of the gospel , and lay them in the ballance with those of the ceremonial law , and if he makes any scruple of deciding on which side the over-weight lies , we may have cause to suspect him forsaken of that little reason which gave him the name of man. let but the fifth of matthew be laid against the whole book of leviticus , and then see whether contains the more excellent precepts , and more suitable to the divine nature ? i speak not this to disparage any thing which had once god for the author of it , but to let us see how far god was from the necessity of natural agents to act to the height of his strength in that discovery of his will. god is wise as well as righteous in all his wayes ; as he can command nothing but what was just ; so he will command nothing but what is good , nay excellent in its kind . but though all the starr● be in the same firmament , yet one star differs from another in glory ; though they may be all pearls , yet some may be more orient then others are ; every place of holy scripture may have its crown , but some may have their aureolae , a greater excellency , a fuller and larger capacity then the other hath ; every parcel of divine revelation may have some perfection in its kind , yet there may be some monstra perfectionis in scaligers expression , that may far outvy the glory and excellency of the rest . can we think the mists and umbrages of the law could ever cast so glorious a light as the sun of righteousness himself in his meridian elevation ? as well may we think a dark shady passage more magnificent and glorious then the most princely pallace , a picture drawn in charcoale more exquisite and curious then the lines of apelles , some imperfect rudiments more exact and accurate then the most elabarate work , as go about to compare the law of moses with the gospel of iesus christ in point of excellency and perfection . let the iews then boast never so much of their gradus mosaicus , and how much it exceeded the degree of revelation in other prophets , we know if his light be compared with what the gospel communicates , moses himself saw but as in a glass darkly , and not in speculo lucido , as the iews are wont to speak . we honour moses much , but we have learnt to honour him at whose transfiguration he was present more ; neither can that be thought any disparagement to him who accounted the reproach of christ greater riches then the treasures of aegypt . but it may be , though the law in its self be not so absolutely perfect , yet god may have declared he will never alter it , and then it is not consistent with divine wisdom to repeal it . very true : god will never alter what he hath said he will not ; but where is it that he hath thus bound up himself ? is it in that noted place to this purpose , thou shalt not add thereto nor diminish from it . so indeed maimonides argues ; but therein more like a iew then himself ; and yet one of his own nation therein far more ingenuous then he , gives a most sufficient answer to it , which is r. ios. albo whose words are thus produced by vorstius and others ; the scripture only admonisheth us , that we should not add to nor diminish from gods commands according to our own wills ; but what hinders saith he , but god himself may according to his own wisdom add or diminish what he pleaseth ? but are they in good earnest when they say god bound up himself by this speech ? whence came then all the prophetical revelations among the iews ? did these add nothing to the law of moses , which was as much the will of god when revealed by them ; as any thing was revealed by moses himself ? or will they say that all those things were contained for the substance in the law of moses , as to what concerned practice ? very true ; but not in the ceremonial , but the moral law ; and so we shall not stick to grant that the whole duty of man may be reduced to that . but if adding to the precepts be the doing of gods commands in another way then he hath prescribed , and diminishing from them be meerly not to do what god hath commanded , as some conceive , then these words are still more remote from the sense affixed on them by the incredulous iews . for why may not god himself add to his own laws or alter the form of them , although we are alwayes bound directly to follow gods declared will ? may not god enlarge his own will , and bring his schollars from the rudiments of their nonage to the higher knowledge of those who are full grown ? or must the world of necessity do that which the old roman so much abhorred , senescere in elementis , wax gray in learning this a , b , c ? or was the ceremonial law like the china characters , that the world r●ight spend its age in conning of them ? but it appears that there was no other meaning in that strict prohibition , then that men should not of their own heads offer to finde out new ways of worship as ieroboam did , but that gods revelation of his own will in all its different degrees was to be the adaequate rule of the way and parts of his own worship . and i would fain know of the iews whether their own severe and strict prohibitions of things not at all forbidden in the law of god , and that on a religious account , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a boundary to the law , come not nearer the adding to gods law , then gods own further declaration of his will doth ? all the dispute then must be , not whether god may add to his own law , but whether the gospel be a prohibited addition to the law of moses , that is , whether it be only the invention of men , or it be the express declaration of the will of god ? as to which controversie , he is no true christian who dare not readily joyn issue with them , and undertake to prove by all the arguments by which they believe the law of moses to have been of divine revelation , that the gospel of christ is a clear manifestation of the will of god. but of that afterwards . from hence it is evident that god hath not by this place tyed up himself from any surther manifestation of his mind beyond the law of moses ; but it may be they may put greater confidence in those expressions which seem necessarily to imply a perpetual and unalterable obligation in the law of moses : for , saith the late learned rabbi manasse ben israel , if by such expressions as those are used in scripture which seem to import the perpetuity of the law of moses , somewhat ●lse should be meant then they seem to express ; what did moses and the prophets in using them but lay a stumbling block in the wayes of men , whereas they might have spoken clearly and told us there should a time come when the ceremonial law should oblige no longer ? this being a charge of so high a nature , must not be dismissed without a particular enquiry into the expressions which are the ground and reason of it . the places most insisted on by the iews , are deut. . . things which are revealed belong to us and to our children 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for ever . so levit. . . the precept of offering the first fruits is there called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a statute for ever ; and that of the passover , exodus . . where the same expression is used . from hence they infer that no alteration can happen as to the ceremonial law since god himself hath declared that it shall continue for ever . to this common argument of the iews , it is in general replyed that the word in which the main force of the argument lyes , doth not carry with it an absolute perpetuity , but it signifies according to the subject it is joyned with . so when it is applyed to god , it signifies oternity , not so much from the meer importance of the word , as from the necessary existence of the divine nature . thence maimonides himself can say , proinde sciendumest quod olam non necessario significet aeternitatem , nisi ei conjungatur ed ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) idque vel post illud ut olam vaed vel ante ad olam . although this rule of his hath no certainty at all in it , as appears from his collection of it , which is because it is said , psal. . . the lord he is king olam vaed , for ever● and ever : but as i said already , that is not from the signification of the word , but the nature of the thing . and it is most plain in scripture that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is so far from implying a necessary p●rpetuity , that it is applyed to such things as can have no long duration , as exodus . . and he shall serve him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is ( as the iews themselves expound it ) to the next iubil●e though it were near or far off . so samuel . . where samuel is said to abide before the lord 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for ever , where we finde maimonides his ad olam in a sense very far short of eternity ; this is so plain that the formerly cited r ioseph albo doth in terms confess it , and produceth a multitude of other places to the same purpose . ●or which though he be sufficiently censured by his brethren , yet we may see there may be some ingenuity left in a iewish rabbi , even in the grand dispute concerning the eternity of the law of moses . all the difficulty now is to assign some rational accounts why such precepts which god did not intend should be alwayes obligatory , yet should be enforced upon them in such expressions which may seem at least to imply a perpetuity . of which these may be given . first , that these precepts to which these expressions are annexed , should not be looked on as meer ambulatory laws that did only concern them in their travels through the wilderness , and not continue obligatory when they were setled in canaan . for which purpose we are to observe , that though all the laws were given in one body in the wilderness , yet the obligation to all of them did not commence at the same time , neither were they to continue for the same duration ; these three sorts of precepts may be observed among them ; first such as concerned them only in their present condition , as that about the tabernacle , which was then a moveable temple among them , suitable to their condition ; but when they were setled , god was to have a setled house too . so that precept of going without the camp , deut. . . had an immediate respect to their peregrination . secondly , such precepts as were given them , but they were not bound to perform them till their setlement in canaan , as driving out the canaanites , numb . . . building the temple in the place which god should choose , erecting judicatories in their several cities , choosing a king , &c. thirdly , there were such precepts as concern them where ever they were , whether in the wilderness or in canaan ; now these are the precepts which are said to be perpetual . this is the account given of it by h. grotius ; but because this may be lyable to some exceptions , i therefore add , secondly , that the reason of those expressions being annexed to the precepts of the ceremonial law , is , because they were to continue obligatory till such a remarkable period of time came which should alter the state of things among them . and such a period of time the coming of the messias is by themselves supposed to be , when in their famous computation they make three epocha's , before the law , un●er the law , and the coming of the messias . and it is evident yet by them , that they do still expect a wonderful alteration of the state of things when the messias comes ; doth it not therefore stand to reason that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should be added to such things which were to continue till so great an alteration as should be on the coming of the messias , especially if the coming of the messias had been deferd so long as they falsly suppose it to be ? but however , granting that a new series of times or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to commence from the messias , there is very great reason why that expression should be added to those things which were to continue as long as the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 did , i. e. till m●ssias came , which we freely acknowledge . and in this sense is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 often taken for such a duration of things which had some remarkable period to conclude it , as in the case of the iubilee in the servant mentioned , and the special employment which god called samuel to in his case , as to the event , or the end of his life in hannahs designation , when she said he should attend upon the lord for ever . thirdly , these precepts are said to endure for ever , which would still have continued obligatory , unless god himself had altered the obligation of them , by a new revelation of his will. for in this case it is most certain that all positive precepts coming immediately from god , do carry with them an unalterable obligation , unless the legislator himself do in as evident a way repeal them as he did once establish them ; that is , in such laws which depend meerly upon gods positive and arbitrary will. for in this case god allows none to alter any thing concerning his laws ; but indispensable obedience is our duty till god himself repeal his former laws . and this we assert to be the case in the gospel . so that it appears plainly that it implyes nothing inconsistent with the wisdom of god to repeal an established positive law , though some expressions to prejudiced minds seem to imply a perpetuity in it . we come therefore to the third thing which may make a positive law unalterable , which is , when the reason of it is immutable ; for then , say they , it would argue mutability in god to repeal it . if we can therefore make it evident that the ceremonial law was not established on an immutable reason , and that the reason on which it was established doth suppose a state of things to come , in which it should expire , then there cannot be the least pretence of mutability in god on the repeal of such a law. first , that it was not established upon an immutable reason : the immutable reason of a law must either be fetched from the nature of the things commanded , or the grounds of the establishing of it ; we have already proved that the nature of the positive precepts of the ceremonial law do not carry in them an intrinsecal goodness . and here the sophistry of the jew● is apparently discovered , that when they are pressed with this , they take sanctuary in the decalogue , or some spiritual precepts , which comprehend in them the general foundation of the law , as thou shalt love the lord thy god with all thy heart , &c. whereas these are very remote from the matter in controversie , which concerns not what precepts were moral in their law , but what were purely ceremonial ; which were so far from being founded on an immutable reason that the particular occasions of the giving of many of them , is particularly assigned by their own writers ; especially in the main parts of the ceremonial worship of god among them , the reasons of which maimonides saith may be deduced from the customs of the zabaists , the knowledge of whose opinions and customs , he tells us , is porta magna ad reddendas praeceptorum causas , gives much light to the law of moses ; and particularly of himself he saith , quòd multarum legum rationes & causae mihi innotuerint ex cegnitione fidei , rituum & ●ultus zabiorum ; that he came to the right understanding of many of the laws of moses by his knowledge in the rites and customs of these zabaists . granting therefore the hypothesis of this learned rabbi , that the precepts of the law had most of them a particular respect to the idolatrous customs of these people ; what will hence follow but only this , that the reason of the ceremonial precepts did respect the customs in use when they were given , and so are not founded upon an immutable reason ? and the more the precepts are whose reason is to be fetched from hence , the more plain and evident is the thing we intend by it , viz. that the ceremonial law is not founded upon an unalterable reason . now from this one head of the idolatrous customs of those nations about them hath that learned author deduced the reasons of very many of the most obscure commands of the ceremonial law : as that concerning rounding the corners of their heads , which herodotus tells us was the custom of the arabians , and others of the babylonian priests ; by both which the zabii may be meant , the superstition of the zabii being chaldean , as i have shewed already , and their name , as some conceive , from saba the son of chus , whose posterity were seated in arabia , near to the red sea ; and that which confirms this opinion , is , that the sabeans did as philostorgius saith , worship the sun and moon , as the zabaists did in maimonides ; and withall bochart us makes it evident from strabo , that some of the babylonians called gerrhaei , possessed themselves of the country of the sabaeans , whereby this originally chaldaick superstition might spread its self in these parts near the confines of iudea , which might be the cause why all those rites which were used by these idolatrous people , are so severely forbidden to the iewes : god thereby setting up a wall of separation between his people and the nations round about them , by making the customs of the iewes almost antipodes to theirs ; as those of iapan are to them of china . upon the same ground it is supposed that other precept was made against wearing a garment of linnen and woollen , because the idolatrous pri●sts used to go so cloathed , as maimonides tells us out of their books , and likewise that prohibition of a womans wearing the gar●ns of a man , and a mans wearing the garments of a woman , is very probably supposed to have had its original from that idolatrous custome mentioned by the same author , ut vir gestet v●stimentum muliebre coloratum quando stat coram stella veneris ; simili●er ut muli●r induat loricam & arma bellica quando stat coram stella martis ; but that author doth not deny a further reason to be couched in it for the preservation of publick honesty . many other precepts are drawn from the same fountain by that same author , as the sowing of divers seeds in the same ground ; the forbidding the eating of the fruit of their trees for the first three years after they came to canaan ; that being the furthest time wherein the trees of their own plantation would begin to bear in that country . now it was the custome of all those idolatrous people , that the first time an● tree did bear , part of the fruit was to be burnt up in an offering to the idol , and the other part eaten in the idol-temple ; or else they supposed their trees would never prosper : now in opposition to this , god bids them bring the fruit of the fourth year to him , a●d eat of the fifth themselves , that it may yield unto you the increase thereof . so the idolaters threatned all parents that their children would never live , unless they caused them to pass thorough the fire ; from which custome main-onides sa●●h , some even in his time would take the children that were new born , and move them up and down over a fire wherein odoriferous smels were cast : thence comes that strict prohibition of giving the children to moloch , which was by that custome of passing thorough the fire . to this same head , the sa●e author refers that of not eating the member of a living creature , which we render flesh with the life thereof ; which was forbidden , as he elsewhere tells us , not only for avoiding cruelty but because the heathen nations were wont in their idolatrous feasts to take a member off from a living creature , and eat it afterw●rds ; and in them likewise he supposeth they used the boyling the flesh and the milk together , which , saith he , besides that it affords a most gross nourishment savours of their idolatrous practices too , and therefore , saith he , it is observable that twice where this precept is mentioned , it follows that of the solemn appearance of the males at jerusalem thrice a year , whereby it seems to be implyed , that this action had relation to some great solemnity . these and several other precepts of the law of moses are deduced by that very learned rabbi from idolatrous customs , as the occasions of them ; which seem to have the more reason in them , because that god did in the general so strictly forbid the iews to walk after the custom of the nations about them . thence origen takes notice of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; for which he saith , they were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , reproached by the heathens , because their laws and polity were so different from the custom of other nations . thus we see then that many precepts of the ceremonial law were founded , neither on the goodness of the things themselves , nor on any unalterable reason , but were enforced on a peculiar reason on the people of the iews at that time , as they were a people separated from the rest of the world for the worship of the true god. and for the other great offices wherein their religion did so much consist , viz. sacrifices , distinction of meats , observation of festivals , circumcision , and such like , the particular account and reason of them is either evident in the law its self , or fully acknowledged by their own writers , that it is here superfluous to insist on them : especially since so many have done that so largely already ( particularly grotius ) whose labours i intend not to transcribe . i come therefore to the second thing , which is , that the ceremonial law was so far from being founded on an immutable reason , that while it was in its greatest force such a state of things was plainly foretold , with which the observation of that law would be inconsistent . for which we are to consider , that though the law of moses seemed outwardly to respect the temporal advantages of the people embracing it in the land of canaan ; yet there was a s●ring of spiritual promises whose head was higher then iordan was , that ran down from the patriarchs , was more and fully opened to some of them , which ●●ough it seemed to run under ground in the midst of the ceremonial observations of the law ; yet it frequently brake forth and opened its self in the midst of them , and by degrees in the prophetical age did make its self a larger channel , till in the time of the messias by its force and violence it overthrew those banks which stood in the way of it , and overspread the face of the whole earth . it is evident by the whole series of the scripture of the old testament , that gods ultimate intention was not to confine the saving knowledge of his will only to the iews ; for the great promise to abraham was , that in his seed all the nations of the earth should be blessed ; and as abraham rejoyced to see that day afar off ; so good iacob when he leaned on his iacobs staff , took the height of that day-star from on high , which though like some of the fixed stars , he might not for some time be visible to the inferiour world ; yet he foretold the time when he should descend into a lower orb , and become conspicuous in our horizon . and consequently to his appearance in the world , would be the drawing not so much the eyes as the hearts of the world to him ; for no sooner is it mentioned that shiluh comes when the scepter departs from iudah ; but it immediatly follows , and to him shall the gathering of the people be . thus we see before ever the law of moses came to inclose the people of the iews as gods peculiar people , there was a design on foot , for inlarging the bounds of gods inheritance , and making the uttermost parts of the earth his sons possession . can we then think that the law which came afterwards , could disanull the covenant made . years before , as the apostle excellently reasons ? can we believe the mosaical dispensation was the utmost of what god did intend , when god had before promised that the blessing of abraham should come upon us gentiles also ? to which purpose it is very observable that abraham was justified not in circumcision , but in uncircumcision ; for he received the sign of circumcision , a seal of the righteousness of faith , being uncircumcised , that he might be the father of all them that believe , though they be not circumcised ; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also . whereby it is evident that the great blessin●s promised to abraham , did not respect him meerly as progenitor of the israelites , but in a higher capacity , as father of the faithfull ; and that the ground of his acceptance with god did not depend on any ceremonial rite , such as circumcision was , god imputing his faith for righteousness before his being circumcised . but because the time was not yet come wherein that grand mysterie of mans salvation by the death of the son of god was to be revealed ; therefore when god called the nation of the iews from their bondage , he made choice of a more obscure way of representing this mysterie to them through all the umbrages of the law : and withall inforced his precepts with such terrible sanctions of curses to all that continued not in all that was written in that law to do it , to make them the more apprehensive that the ground of their acceptance with god , could not be the performance of the precepts of that law , but they ought to breath after that higher dispensation wherein the way and method of mans salvation should be fully revealed when the fulness of time was come . now therefore god left them under the tutorage and paedagogy of the law , which spake so severely to them , that they might not think this was all god intended in order to the happiness of men , but that he did reserve some greater thing in store to be enjoyed by his people when they were come to age . so that though the ceremonies of the law had not a mouth to speak out christ ; yet tbey had a hand to point to him ; for they were the shadow or dark representation of that which was to be drawn afterwards to the greatest life . and this was understood by all those whose hearts were carried beyond the outward , sapless letter of the law , to the more inward and spiritual meaning of it ( there being an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the law as well as philosophy ) and these mysteries were not so vailed and hidden , but all that were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fully initiated , might fully understand them ; which made up that true spiritual cabala , which was constantly preserved among the true israelites , which was more largely commented on by the prophets of succeeding ages ; whose care it was to unlock this cabala , and to raise up the hearts of the people in a higher expectation of the great things which were to come . thence we not only read of the solemn prayer of the church of the iews , that the knowledge of god might be dispersed over all the nations of the earth , but we have many prophecies that when the mountain of the lords house should be exalted , all nations should flow unto it : that from the rising of the sun to the going down thereof , gods name shall be great among the gentiles , and in every ●lace incense should be offered to his name , and a pure offering ; for his name shall be great among the heathen . that the inscription on the high priests forehead , holiness to the lord , should by reason of the large diffusion of a spirit of holiness in the days of the gospel , be set upon the bells of horses , and that the pots in the lords house should be as bowls before the altar , i. e. that when the levitical service should be laid aside , and that holiness which was that appropriated to the priests and instruments of the temple , should be discerned in those things which seemed most remote from it . that a priesthood after another order then that of aaron should be established , viz. after the order of melchisedek ; and that he that was the priest after this order , should judge among the heathen , and wound the heads over many countries ; that in the day of his power the people should ( not be frighted to obedience with thunderclaps , and earthquakes , as at mount sinai ) but should come and yield themselves as a free-will offering unto him , and yet their number be as great as the drops of the dew which distill in the morning . that god out of other nations would take unto himself for priests and for levites ; that the desire of all nations should speedily come ; that the messenger of the covenant should come into his temple ; nay that seventy weeks are determined upon thy people , and upon thy holy city ; that then the vision and prophecie should be sealed up ; that the sacrifice and oblation should be caused to cease ; that the city and the sanctuary should be destroyed , and the end thereof shall be with a flood , and unto the end of the war desolations are determined ; that after three score and two weeks messias should be cut off , but not for himself ; that by him transgression should be finished , and reconciliation for iniquity should be made , and everlasting righteousness should be brought in . and least all these things should be apprehended to be only a higher advancing of the levitical worship , and the way of external ceremonies , god expresly saith , that he would make a new covenant with the house of israel , and with the house of judah ; not according to the covenant that i made with their fathers , in the day i took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of egypt , which my covenant they brake , although i was an husband to them , saith the lord : but this shall be the covenant that i will make with the house of israel after those days , saith the lord ; i will put my law in their inward parts , and write it in their hearts , and will be their god , and they shall be my people . can any one that now considers seriously the state of things thus described as it should come to pass , ever imagine that the levitical service was ever calculated for this state ? was gods worship to be confined to his temple at ierusalem , when all the nations of the earth should come to serve him ? was the high priest to make an attonement there , when an order of priesthood different from the aaronical should be set up ? must the tribe of levi only attend at the temple when god would take priests and levites out of all nations that serve him ? what would become of the magnificence and glory of the temple when both city and sanctuary shall be destroyed , and that must be within few prophetical weeks after the messias is cut off ? and must the covenant god made with the israelites continue for ever , when god expresly saith , he would make a new one , and that not according to the covenant which he made with them then ? it is so evident then , as nothing can well be more , that under the old testament , such a state of religion was described and promised , with which the levitical worship would be inconsistent ; and so that the ceremonial law was not at first established upon an immutable reason , which was the thing to be proved . chap. viii . general hypotheses concerning the truth of the doctrine of christ. the great prejudice against our saviour among iews and heathens , was the means of his appearance . the difference of the miracles at the delivery of the law and gospel . some general hypotheses to clear the subserviency of miracles to the doctrine of christ. . that where the truth of a doctrine depends not on evidence , but authority , the only way to prove the truth of the doctrine , is to prove the testimony of the revealer to be infallible . things may be true which depend not on evidence of the things . what that is , and on what it depends . the uncertainty of natural knowledge . the existence of god , the foundation of all certainty . the certainty of matters of faith proved from the same principle . our knowladge of any thing supposeth something incomprehensible . the certainty of faith as great as that of knowledge ; the grounds of it stronger . the consistency of rational evidence with faith . yet objects of faith exceed reason ; the absurdities following the contrary opinion . the uncertainty of that which is called reason . philosophical dictates no standard of reason . of transubstantiation and ubiquity &c. why rejected as contrary to reason . the foundation of faith in matters above reason . which is infallible testimony that there are ways to know which is infallible , proved : . hypoth . a divine testimony the most infallible . the resolution of faith into gods veracity as its formal object . . hypoth . a divine testimony may be known , though god speak not immediatly . of inspiration among the iews and divination among the heathens . . hyp. the evidences of a divine testimony must be clear and certain . of the common motives of faith , and the obligation to faith arising from them . the original of infidelity . having now cleared that the law of moses was capable of a repeal , i come to the second enquiry , whether the miracles of our saviour did give a sufficient evidence of his power and authority to repeal it . i shall not ( to prevent too large an excursion ) insist on any other evidences of our saviours being the promised m●ssias , but keep close to the matter of our present debate concerning the evidence which ariseth from such a power of miracles as our saviour had in order to his establishing that doctrine which he came to publish to the world . the great stumbling-block in reference to our blessed saviour among both the iews and learned heathens , was the meanness of his appearance in the world , not coming attended with that state and magnificence , which they thought to be inseparable from so great a person . the iews had their senses so poss●ssed with the thundrings and lightnings on mount sinai , that they could not imagine the structure of their ceremonial worship could be taken down with less noise and terror then it was er●cted with . and withall collecting all those passages of the old testament which seemed to foretell such glorious things of the dayes of the messias , ( which ●ither refer to his second coming , or must be understood in a spiritual sense ) they having their minds oppressed with the sense of their present calamities , applyed them wholly to an external greatness , whereby they might be delivered from the tyranny of the roman power . the heathens as appears by celsus and others , thought it very strange that the son of god should appear in the world with so little grandeur , and have no greater train then twelve such obscure persons as the apostles were . for saith celsus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . as the sun which inlightens all other things , d●th first discover himself , so it was fitting the son of god should do when he appeared to the world . and so we say he did to all such whose minds were not blinded through obstinacy and willfull ignorance . for although this sun of righteousness was pleased for the better carrying on his design in the world to wrap up himself in a cloud , yet his glory could not be confined within it , but did break through that dark vail of his humane nature , and did discover its self in a most clear and convincing manner . his appearances indeed were not like those upon mount sinai , because his design was not to amuse men with the glory of his majesty , and to terrifie them from idolatry , ( which was a great reason of those dreadful phaenomena at the delivery of the law ) but he came to draw all men to him by the power and energy of his grace , and therefore afforded them all rational convictions in order to it . and therefore the quality of our saviours miracles was considerable as well as the greatness of them ; the intent of them all was to do good , and thereby to bring the world off from its sin and folly , to the embracing of that holy doctrine which he came to publish to the world . now that such a power of miracles in our saviour had the greatest subserviency to the giving full and convincing evidence that he was the person he declared himself to be , and that his doctrine was thereby so clearly attested , that it was nothing but obstinacy , which could withhold assent , will appear by these following hypotheses which i lay down in order to the proving it . where the truth of a doctrine depends not on the evidence of the things themselves , but on the authority of him that reveals it , there the only way to prove the doctrine to be true , is to prove the testimony of him that revealed it to be infallible . several things are necessary to be proved for the clearing this proposition . . that it is not repugnant to reason that a doctrine should be true which depends not upon the evidence of the thing its self . by evidence of the thing i understand so clear and distinct a perception of it , that every one who hath the use of his rational faculties , cannot but upon the first apprehension of the terms yeild a certain assent to it ; as that the whole is greater then a part ; that if we take away equal things from equal , the remainder must be equal . now we are to observe , that as to all these common notices of humane nature which carry such evidence with them , the certainty of them lyes in the proposition as it is an act of the mind abstracted from the things themselves ; for these do not suppose the existence of the things ; but whether there be any such things in the world or no as whole or parts , the understanding is assured that the idea of the whole carryes more in its representation then that of a part does . this is the great reason of the certainty and evidence of mathematical truths , not as some imagine , because men have no interest , or design in those things , and therefore they never question them , but because they proceed not upon sensible but abstracted matter ; which is not lyable to so many doubts as the other is ; for that a triangle hath three angles no man questions , but whether such sensible parts of matter make a triangle , may be very questionable . now that the truth of beings , or the certainty of existence of things cannot be so certain as mathematical demonstrations , appears from hence : because the manner of conveyance of these things to my mind cannot be so clear and certain as in purely intellectual operations , abstracted from existent matter . for the highest evidences of the existence of things must be either the judgement of sense , or clear and distinct perception of the mind ; now proceeding in a meer natural way , there can be no infallible certainty in either of these ; for the perception of the mind in reference to the existence of things being caused so much through those idea's or phantasmes which are conveyed to the understanding through the impressions of sense , if these may be demonstrated to be fallacious , i may well question the certainty of that , which i am certain i have been deceived by ; supposing then i should question the truth of every thing which is conveyed in an uncertain way to my mind , i may soon out-go even pyrrho himself in real scepticism . neither can i conceive how clear and distinct perception of any thing though not coming through the senses , doth necessarily infer the existence of the thing ; for it only implyes a non-repugnancy of it to our natural faculties , and consequently the bare possibility of it . for otherwise it were impossible for us to have a clear perception of any thing any longer then it exists , nay then we know it to exist ; for existence or non-existence is all one to the understanding , while it is not assured of either . and it is withall evident that things imaginary may clearly affect the mind as well as real ; for i may have as real and distinct perception of a phoenix in my mind , as of a partridge ; doth it therefore follow that the one is really existent as well as the other ? and it will be a very hard matter to assign a certain difference between imagination and pure intellection in such things , which though , not actually existent , yet imply no repugnancy at all to the faculties of mens minds . it is evident then that there cannot be so great certainty of the existence of things as there may be of mathematical demonstrations . and if that principle be supposed as the foundation of all physical certainty as to the being of things , viz. that there is a god who being infinitely good will not suffer the minds of men to be deceived in those things which they have a clear and distinct perception of ( without which supposition we cannot be assured of the certainty of any operations of the mind , because we cannot know but we were so made that we might be then most deceived , when we thought our selves most sure ) if this principle , i say , be supposed as the foundation of all certain knowledge , then from it i infer many things which are very much advantagious to our certainty in matters of faith . that the foundation of all certainty lies in the necessary existence of a being absolutely perfect . so that unless i know that there is a god , i cannot be assured that i know any thing in a certain manner ; and if i know there is a god , i must necessarily apprehend him to be absolutely perfect ; because the grounds of my knowledge that there is a god , are from those absolute perfections which there are in him ; and if i could suppose him not absolutely perfect , i must suppose him not to be god ; for that is necessarily implyed in his definition . now then if all certainty doth suppose the existence of a being so absolutely perfect ; i must before i can know any thing certainly , conclude that there is an infinity of knowledge , wisdom , power and goodness in this god ; for those are things which all who understand them , will grant to be perfections ; and if they be in god , they must be absolute , i. e. infinite . and if they be infinite , it necessarily follows that they must transcend our apprehensions ; so that now we have gained this principle in order to faith ; that we must grant something to be unconceivable before we can come certainly to know any thing . from whence it follows that those who will not believe any thing to be true because it is above their apprehensions , must deny the foundation of all certainty , which ( as we have proved ) doth suppose something to be infinite , or above our capacity to comprehend . that we have as great certainty of what-ever is revealed to us from god , as we can have of the truth of any thing which we most clearly understand . for the truth of knowledge depending on this supposition , that there is a god whose goodness will not suffer us to be deceived in the things we clearly understand ; there is the same foundation for the act of faith as for that of knowledge , viz. that god will not suffer us to be deceived in matters which himself hath revealed to us . nay there seems to be far greater on these accounts . first , that there is not so great danger to be deceived in reference to objects of sense , as there is in reference to objects of divine revelation : because objects of sense make a continual impression upon the organs of sense ; and as to these things we see the whole world agrees in them so far as they are necessary to life , and withall they bear a greater correspondency to the present state of imperfection which the soul is now in : but now matters of divine revelation are of a more sublime and spiritual nature , which mens minds on that account are more apt to doubt of , then of things obvious to sense ; and withall they call the mind so much off from sense that on these accounts the proneness to doubt is greater , and therefore the foundation of certainty from gods not suffering us to be deceived must be stronger . secondly , there is not so great danger in being deceived as to matters of sense or knowledge , as there is in things of divine revelation . for we see granting sense to be deceived , and that we have no certainty at all in natural things , yet affairs of life are managed still ; mens outward welfare depends not on the judgement of sense ; the merchant hath never the less gold in his ship because his sense deceives him in judging that the earth moves from him , when the ship moves from it . the sun doth never the less inlighten the world , though our senses be a●l of epicurus his mind , that the sun is no bigger then he seems to be ; but now as to matters of divine revelation , they are things of the most unspeakable weight and importance , which depend upon our believing or disbelieving them . and therefore if the goodness of god be such as it will not suffer us to be deceived in our judgement of material and sensible beings , how much less in reference to the foundation of our certainty as to things divinely revealed ? we see then what rational evidence there is not only consistent with , but necessarily implyed in the foundation of faith , even as great as in any thing which we do most perfectly know ; so that the in-evidence which is so much spoken of as an ingredient of the nature of faith , must not be understood of the foundation whereon the act of faith doth stand , but of the condition of the object , which being a matter of divine revelation , is a thing not obvious to our senses : in which sense the apostle speaks that faith is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the firm expectation of things hoped for , and strong conviction of things which are not seen : in which words , as erasmus well observes , is contained only an high encomium of faith , and no dialectical definition of it ; viz. that faith soars above things of sense or present enjoyment ; yea , though the objects of it be never so remote from either , yet where there is sufficient evidence of divine revelation , faith boggles at no difficulties , but is firmly resolved that that god , who hath revealed these things , can and will bring them to pass in his own time . there is not then any such contrariety between the foundation of faith and knowledge , as the schoolmen have perswaded the world , we see both of them proceed on the same foundation of certainty ; all the difference is , faith fixeth on the veracity of god immediately in reference to a divine testimony ; knowledge proceeds upon it , supposing no divine revelation , as to the things it doth discover . we hence infer , that if the certainty of our knowledge depends on this principle , that god will not suffer us to be deceived , then we are bound to believe whatever god doth reveal to us , though we may not be able to comprehend the nature of the things revealed . for as to these things , we have the same ground of certainty , which we have as to any natural causes ; for as to them , we now suppose from the former principle , that setting aside the existence of god , we could have no certainty of them , but that the formal reason of our certainty is resolved into this , that gods goodness will not suffer the understanding to be deceived as to these things ; the same i say as to spiritual mysteries revealed by god ; the ground of our certainty lies not in the evidence of the things , but in the undoubted veracity of god , who hath revealed them . all that i can imagine possible to be replyed to this , is , that gods veracity assures us in natural causes that we are not deceived only where we have a clear and distinct perception of the things ; but now in matters above our reason to comprehend , there can be no clear and distinct perception . to this i answer . first , it is evident in the foundation of all certainty of knowledge , that there may be a clear and distinct perception of that which we cannot comprehend , viz. of a being absolutely perfect ; for if we have not a clear and distinct perception of god , the foundation of all certainty is destroyed , which is the necessary existence of such a being ; and he that shall say he cannot have a clear perception of god without comprehending him , doth contradict himself ; for if he be a being infinite , he must be incomprehensible ; therefore there may be clear perception , where the object its self is above our capacity . now whatever foundation there is in nature for such a perception without comprehension ; that and much more is there in such things as are revealed by god , though above our apprehension : for the idea of god upon the soul of man cannot be so strong an evidence of the existence of a being above our apprehension , as the revelation of matters of faith is , that we should believe the things so revealed , though our understandings lose themselves in striving to reach the natures of them , and the manner of their existence . secondly , that which is the only foundation of a scruple in this case , is a principle most unreasonable in its self , that we are to imbrace nothing for truth , though divinely revealed , but what our reason is able to comprehend , as to the nature of the thing , and the manner of its existence ; on which account the doctrine of the trinity , incarnation , satisfaction , and consequently the whole mysterie of the gospel of christ must be rejected as incredible , and that on this bare pretence , because although many expressions in scripture seem to import all these things , yet we are bound to interpret them to another sense , because this is incongruous to our reason . but although christianity be a religion which comes in the highest way of credibility to the minds of men , although we are not bound to believe any thing but what we have sufficient reason to make it appear that it is revealed by god , yet that any thing should be questioned whether it be of divine revelation , meerly because our reason is to seek , as to the full and adaequate conception of it , is a most absurd and unreasonable pretence : and the assertors of it must run themselves on these unavoidable absurdities . first , of believing nothing either in nature or religion to be true , but what they can give a full and satisfactory account of , as to every mode and circumstance of it . therefore let such persons first try themselves in all the appearances of nature ; and then we may suppose they will not believe that the sun shines , till they have by demonstrative arguments proved the undoubted truth of the ptolomaick or copernican hypothesis , that they will never give credit to the flux and reflux of the sea , till they clearly resolve the doubts which attend the several opinions of it . that there is no such thing as matter in the world , till they can satisfactorily tell us how the parts of it are united ; nor that there are any material beings , till they have resolved all the perplexing difficulties about the several affections of them ; and that themselves have not so much as a rational soul , till they are bound to satisfie us of the manner of the union of the soul and body together . and if they can expedite all these , and many more difficulties about the most obvious things ( about which it is another thing to frame handsome and consistent hypotheses , then to give a certain account of them ) then let them be let loose to the matters of divine revelation ; as to which yet ( if they could perform the other ) were there no reason for such an undertaking ; for that were secondly , to commensurate the perfections of god with the narrow capacity of the humane intellect ; which is contrary to the natural idea of god , and to the manner whereby we take up our conceptions of god ; for the idea of god doth suppose incomprehensibility to belong to his nature ; and the manner whereby we form our conceptions of god , is by taking away all the imperfections we find in our selves , from the conception we form of a being absolutely perfect , and by adding infinity to all the perfections we find in our own natures . now this method of proceeding doth necessarily imply a vast distance and disproportion between a finite and infinite understanding . and if the understanding of god be infinite , why may not he discover such things to us , which our shallow apprehensions cannot reach unto ? what ground or evidence of reason can we have that an infinite wisdom and understanding , when it undertakes to discover matters of the highest nature and concernment to the world , should be able to deliver nothing but what comes within the compass of our imperfect and narrow intellects ? and that it should not be sufficient that the matters revealed do none of them contradict the prime results or common notions of mankind ( which none of them do ) but that every particular mode and circumstance , as to the manner of existence in god , or the extent of his omnipotent power , must pass the scrutiny of our faculties , before it obtains a placet for a divine revelation ? thirdly , it must follow from this principle , that the pretenders to it must affirm the rules or maxims which they go by in the judgment of things , are the infallible standard of reason : else they are as far to seek in the judgement of the truth of things as any others are . they must then , to be consistent with their principle , affirm themselves to be the absolute masters of reason : now reason consisting of observations made concerning the natures of all beings ( for so it must be considered , as it is a rule of judging , viz. as a systeme of infallible rules collected from the natures of things ) they who pretend to it , must demonstrate these general maxims according to which they judge , to be ●ollected from an universal undoubted history of nature , which lies yet too dark and obscure for any to pretend to the full knowledge of , and would be only a demonstration of the highest arrogance after so many succesless endeavours of the most searching wits in any society of persons to usurp it to themselves ; especially if such persons are so far from searching into the depths of nature , that they suffer themselves very fairly to be led by the nose by the most dogmatical of all philosophers ; and that in such principles which the more inquisitive world hath now found to be very short , uncertain , and fallacious . and upon severe enquiry we shall find the grand principles which have been taken by these adorers of reason , for almost the standard of it , have been some theories which have been taken up meerly from observation of the course of nature by such persons , who scarce owned any hand of providence in the world . now it cannot otherwise be conceived but that these theories , or principles formed from such a narrow inspection into the natures of things , must make strange work when we come to apply those things to them , which were never looked at in the forming of them : whence came those two received principles , that nothing can be produced out of nothing ; that there is no possible return from a privation to a habit , but from those philosophers who believed there was nothing but matter in the world ; or if they did assert the existence of a god , yet supposed him unconcerned in the government of the world . whence come our masters of reason to tell us that the soul cannot subsist after death without the boay ; from what philosophy was this derived ? certainly from that which was very loth to acknowledge the immortality of the soul of man : and any one who strictly observes the close coherence of the principles of the peripatetick philosophy , will find very little room left for an eternal being to interpose its self in the world ; and therefore some have shrewdly observed that aristotle speaks more favourably of the being of god in his exotericks , then in his acroamaticks , which all that know the reason of the names , will guess at the reason of . i demand then , must the received principles of philosophy , and those short imperfect theories , which were formed more from tradition then experience , by the ancient greeks , be taken for the standard of reason or no ? if they must , we may soon forsake not only the sublimer mysteries of the trinity , divinity of christ , resurrection , &c. but we shall soon shake hands with creation , providence , if not immortality of souls , and the being of god himself . if these things be disowned as the standard of reason , let us know what will be substituted in the room of them ? and what laws our faith must be tryed by ? are they only mathematical demonstrations , or the undoubted common notions of humane nature , which whosoever understands assents to them , let any of the forementioned mysteries be made appear to contradict these , and we will readily yield up our selves captives to reason : but in the mean time , let no jejune unproved hypotheses in philosophy , be set as iudges over matters of faith , whose only warrant for that office must be stat pro ratione voluntas . let the principles we proceed by , be first manifested to be collected from a most certain and universal inspection into the nature of all beings , let the manner of process be shewed how they were collected ( lest they labour with the common fault of the chymists , of establishing hypostatical principles from the experiments of some particular bodies , which others do as evidently refute ) and lastly , let it be made appear that these principles , thus collected , will serve indifferently for all beings , spiritual as well as material , infinite as well as finite , and when this task is exactly performed , we will make room for reason to sit upon the bench , and bring the scriptures as the prisoner to its bar. fourthly , according to this principle , what certainty can we have at all of anything we are to believe ? who hath fixed the bounds of that which men call reason ? how shall we know that thus far it will come , and no further ? if no banks be raised against it to keep it in its due channel , we may have cause to fear it may in time overthrow not only the trinity , incarnation , resurrection of the dead , but all other articles of the creed too ? what prescription can be pleaded by one sort of men for reason more then for another ? one will not believe this article of his faith , because against his reason , and why not another reject another article on the same pretence ? for whatever the ground of unbelief be , if it be but baptized by the name of reason , it must by this principle pass uncontrouled ; if a sullen philosopher shall tell us , that the notion of an immaterial substance contradicts his reason as much as the trinity doth theirs , and that the universe is nothing else but a systeme of bodies , by what artifice will our masters of reason purge away all that black choler that so clouds his mind , that he cannot see the notion of a spirit through it ? and such one will make a hard shift , but he will reconcile his opinion with scripture too ; and therefore why should he be bound up to mens explications of scripture , when there is no necessity , that he can see , of understanding it in any other way then his own ? if another should come and tell us , that we must be all anthropomorphites , and that otherwise the scripture were not intelligible ; shall not this man put in for reason too ? nay lastly , if another shall come and speak out , and tell us religion is but a device of subtle men , that all things come to pass through chance , that the world was made by a fortuitous concourse of atoms , and that all are fools which are not atheists , and that it is impossible to apprehend the being of a god , and therefore by the same reason that they reject some mysteries of religion , he rejects the foundation of all ; because an infinite being is incomprehensible : whither now hath our reason carried us ? while we p●etend to reject any thing as divinely revealed , meerly on that account , that it is above our reason ? but it may be replied , on what account then do we reject the doctrine of transubstantiation , and the ubiquity of the body of christ , as repugnant to reason , if we do not make reason judge in matters of faith ? i answer , . we reject these opinions not only as repugnant to reason , but as insufficiently proved from scripture , whereas we here suppose ( it not being our present business to prove it ) that the several doctrines of the trinity , incarnation , resurrection of bodies , &c. are only rejected on that account , that though scripture seems to speak fair for them , yet it is otherwise to be interpreted , because supposed to be repugnant to reason . . those doctrines before mentioned are eminently serviceable to promote the great end of the gospel , and are inlaid in the very foundation o● it , as that of the trinity , and divinity of christ ; but these we now mention are no ways conduceable to that end ; but seem to thwart and overthrow it , and transubstantiation establisheth a way of worship contrary to the gospel . . all the foundation of transubstantiation is laid upon ambiguous places of scripture , which must of necessity have some tropes and figures in them ; but the doctrine of the trinity is not only contained in plain scripture , but is ●videnced by visible appearance , as particularly at the baptism of our saviour . . there is far greater ground why we should reject transubstantiation and ubiquity , as inconsistent with reason , then that they should the trinity , on this account , because the grounds of reason on which we reject those opinions , are fet●hed from those essential and inseparable properties of bodies , which are inconsistent with those opinions ; now these are things within the reach of our understandings ( in which case god himself sometimes appeals to reason ) but it is quite another . case , when we search into the incomprehensible nature of god , and pronounce with confidence that such things cannot be in god , because we cannot comprehend them ; which gives a sufficient answer to this objection . the substance then of this discourse is , that whatever d●ctrine is sufficiently manifested to be of divine revelation , is to be embraced and believed , as undoubtedly true , though our reason cannot reach to the full apprehension of all the modes and circumstances of it . so that as to these sublime mysteries our faith stands upon this twofold bottom . first , that the being , understanding , and power of god doth infinitely transcend ours , and therefore he may reveal to us matters above our reach and capacity . secondly , that whatever god doth reveal is undoubtedly true , though we may not fully understand it ; for this is a most undoubted principle , that god cannot and will not deceive any in those things which he reveals to men . thus our first supposition is cleared , that it is not repugnant to reason , that a doctrine may be true , which depends not on the evidence of the thing it self . the second is , that in matters whose truth depends not on the evidence of the things themselves , infallible testimony is the fullest demonstration of them . for these things , not being of mathematical evidence , there must be some other way found out for demonstrating the truth of them . and in all those things whose truth depends on testimony , the more creditable the testimony is , the higher evidence is given to them ; but that testimony which may deceive , cannot give so pregnant an evidence as that which cannot ; for then all imaginable objections are taken off . this is so clear , that it needs no further proof ; and therefore the third follows . that there are certain ways whereby to know that a testimony delivered is infallible ; and that is fully proved by these two arguments . . that it is the duty of all those to whom it is propounded to believe it ; now how could that be a duty in them to believe , which they had no ways to know whether it were a testimony to be believed , or no. . because god will condemn the world for unbelief : in which the justice of gods proceedings doth necessarily suppose that there were sufficient arguments to induce them to believe , which could not be , unless there were some certain way supposed whereby a testimony may be known to be infallible . these three things now being supposed , viz. that a doctrine may be true which depends not on evidonce of reason , that the greatest demonstration of the truth of such a doctrine , is its being delivered by infallible testimony , and that there are certain ways whereby a testimony may be known to be infallible : our first principle is fully confirmed , which was , that where the truth of a doctrine depends not on evidence of reason , but on the authority of him that reveals it , the only way to prove the doctrine to be true , is to prove the testimony of him that reveals it to be infallible . the next principle or hypothesis which i lay down , is , that there can be no greater evidence that a testimony is infallible , then that it is the testimony of god himself . the truth of this depends upon a common notion of humane nature , which is the veracity of god in whatever way he discovers himself to men ; and therefore the ultimate resolution of our faith , as to its formal object , must be alone into the veracity of god revealing things unto us ; for the principium certitudinis , or foundation of all certain assent can be fetched no higher , neither will it stand any lower then the infallible verity of god himself ; and the principium patefactionis , or the ground of discovery of spiritual truth to our minds , must be resolved into divine testimony , or revelation . these two then not taken asunder , but joyntly , god , who cannot lye , hath revealed these things , is the only certain foundation for a divine faith to rest its self upon . but now the particular exercise of a divine faith lies in a firm assent to such a particular thing as divinely revealed , and herein lyes not so much the testimony , as the peculiar energy of the spirit of god in inclining the soul to believe peculiar objects of faith , as of divine revelation . but the general ground of faith , which they call the formal object , or the ratio propter quam credimus is the general infallibility of a divine testimony . for in a matter concerning divine revelation , there are two great questions to be resolved ; the first is , why i believe a divine testimony with a firm assent ? the answer to that is , because i am assured , that what ever god speaks is true : the other is , upon what grounds do i believe this to be a divine testimony ? the resolution of which , as far as i can understand , must be fetched from those rational evidences whereby a divine testimony must be distinguished from one meerly humane and fallible . for the spirit of god in its workings upon the mind , doth not carry it on by a brutish impulse , but draws it by a spiritual discovery of such strong and perswasive grounds to assent to what is revealed , that the mind doth readily give a firm assent to that which it sees such convincing reason to believe . now the strongest reason to believe , is the manifestation of a divine testimony ; which the spirit of god so clearly discovers to a true believer , that he not only firmly assents to the general foundation of faith , the veracity of god , but to the particular object propounded , as a matter of divine revelation . but this latter question is not here the matter of our discourse ; our proposition only concerns the general foundation of faith ; which appears to be so rational and evident , as no principle in nature can be more . for if the testimony on which i am to rely be only gods , and i be assured from natural reason , that his testimony can be no other then infallible , wherein doth the certainty of the foundation of faith fall short of that in any mathematical demonstration ? upon which account a divine testimony hath been regarded with so much veneration among all who have owned a deity , although they have been unacquainted with any certain way of divine revelation . and the reason why any rejected such a testimony among the heathens , was either because they believed not a deity , or else that the particular testimonies produced were meer frauds and impostures , and therefore no divine testimony as it was given out to be . but the principle still remained indisputable , that on supposition the testimony were what it pretended to be , there was the greatest reason to believe it , although it came not in such a way of probation , as their sciences proceeded in . from which principle arose that speech of tully which he hath translated out of plato's timaeus , ac difficillimum factu à diis ortis sidem non haber● , quanquam nec argumentis nec rationibus certis eorum oratio confirmetur . by which we see what a presumption there was of truth , where there was any evidence of a divine testimony . and no doubt upon the advantage of this principle it was the devil gained so great credit to his oracles , for therein he did the most imitate divine revelation . from hence then we see what a firm bottom faith in the general stands upon , which is nothing short of an infallible divine testimony : other things may conduce by way of subserviency for the discovery of this ; but nothing else can be a sure foundation for a divine faith , but what is a testimony of god himself . a testimony may be known to be divine and infallible , though god himself do not speak in an immediate way . by being known , i do not mean the firm perswasion of a mind inlightned by the spirit of god , but that there are sufficient evidences ex parte rei to convince men of it , which are not wilfully blind and obstinate , i. e. that the ground of unbelief in any cannot be imputed to the defect of sufficient motives to faith , but to their own perversness and prejudice in not discerning them . now that god may reveal and declare his mind to the world , not in an immediate way , but by some instruments he may make use of to that end , is not only evident from the great suitableness of such a way to the conditions of the persons he speaks to , but from the general perswasion of the world concerning the possibility of inspiration . the iews are so far from denying this , that it is the very foundation of their religion as well as ours , god discovering the most of his will to them by the prophets or by persons divinely inspired . and the general consent of all other nations , that there is such a principle as divination in the world , doth make it evident , that it carryes no repugnancy at all to natural light , supposing that there is a god , that he should reveal his mind by some particular persons unto the world . for which purpose the testimony of tully in the entrance of his books de divinatione , is very considerable . vetus opinio est jam usque ab heroicis ducta temporibus , eáque & populi romani & omnium gentium firmata consensu , versari quandam inter homines divinationem , quam graeci 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 appellant , i. e. praesensionem & scientiam rerum futurarum , and soon after adds , gentem quidem nullam video , neque tam humanam at que doctam , neque tam immanem atque barbaram , quae non significari futura , et à quibusdam intelligi , praedicique posse censeat . he makes it appear to be an universal sentiment of all nations in the world , and instanceth particularly in the assyrians , aegyptians , cilicians , pisidians , pamphilians , grecians , romans , etrurians , and others . it is true indeed he after mentions some philosophers who denyed it ; but they were most part the followers of epicurus , who denyed any providence , and therefore might well take away divination ; but if xenophanes colophonius had any followers who asserted the one , and denyed the other ( as tully seems to intimate that he was alone in that perswasion ) yet we may probably suppose the reason of their rejecting it might be the impostures which went under the name of divination among them ; which are excellently discovered by that prince of roman philosophers as well as orators , in his second book of divination ; but it is apparent by the same author , that the generality of philosophers consented with the people in this perswasion , as the followers of those three great sects of socrates , pythagoras , and aristotle were all approvers of it ; but of all persons the stoicks were the most zealous contenders for it , especially chrysippus , diogenes babylonius , antipater and possidonius ; some indeed rejected some wayes of divination , yet embraced others , as dicaearchus and cratippus , who rejected all but dreams and extasies ; but in the general we find these two principles went together among them , the existence of a deity , and the certainty of divination ; so that from divination they proved a deity , and from a deity divination . si sunt genera divinandi vera , esse deos ; vicissimque si dii sint , esse qui divinent , as quintus cicero there speaks : and at last thus triumphs in the multitude of his witnesses , an dum bestiae loquantur expectamus , hominum consenti●nte auctoritate contenti non simus ? it may not be amiss to produce the chief argument on which the stoicks insisted to prove the necessity of divination , supposing the existence of a deity . if there be gods , say they , and they do not reveal to men things to come , it either is because they do not love them , or because they do not know themselves what shall come to pass , or they think it is of no concernment to men to know future things , or that it doth not become their majesty to reveal them , or that they cannot reveal them to men if they would ; but neither is it true that they do not love men ; for the gods are of a bountiful nature and friends to mankind ; neither can they be ignorant of future things , because they are appointed and decreed by them , neither is it of no concernment to men to know future things ; for that makes them more cautious if they know them ; neither is it repugnant to their majesty to reveal them , for nothing is more noble then bounty and doing good ; and they must needs know these things ; therefore they may make them known to others ; and if they do make them known , there must be some way whereby to know that they do so ; or else they signifie them to no purpose . if now instead of the knowledge of future contingencies , and the multitude of their gods , they had insisted on the discovery and revelation by the true god of those wayes which may lead men to eternal happiness , that argument had been strong and convincing , which as it stands , is sophistical and fallacious . so that it is very plain , that not only a possibility of divination was acknowledged by those who wanted divine revelation , but that this divination did not arise from meer natural causes , but from an afflatus divinus , and a concitatio quaedam animi , as they there speak , which imports nothing short of divine inspiration . nay the opinion of this was so common among them , that they thought any extraordinary persons had something of divine enthusiasm in them , as tully elsewhere tells us , nemo vir magnus sine aliquo afflatu divino unquam fuit . although then these heathens were greatly mistaken as to those things they took for a divine afflatus and divination , yet we cannot conceive so general a sense should be imprinted on the minds of men of such a thing as that was , were it not a thing highly consonant to principles of reason , that god should communicate his mind to the world by the inspiration of some persons . and therefore i conceive that cicero and his brother quintus , who manage that excellent dispute of divination between them , have divided the truth between them too . for on the one side quintus evidently proves the possibility of the thing , the consequence of it upon the acknowledgement of a deity , and the general consent of mankind in the owning of it ; and on the other side tully himself excellently layes open the vanity , folly , and uncertainty , not only of the common wayes of divination , but of the oracles which were in such great esteem among the heathens . and although tully doth so sharply and sarcastically answer the argument from the common consent of men ; quasi verò quidquam sit , tam valdè , quam nihil sapere , vulgare ; as though nothing men did more generally agree in , then in being fools ; yet as it is evident that the ground of that scoffe was from the several manners of divination then in use , so it cannot be thought to be a general impeachment of humane nature in a thing so consequent upon the being of a god , which as himself elsewhere proves , is as clear from reason as from that testimonium gentium in hac una re non dissidentium , as the christian cicero , lactantius speaks , the consent of nations , which scarce agree in any thing else , but that there is a god. that which we now infer from hence is , that god may make known his mind in a way infallible , though not immediate ; for in case of inspiration of meer men , it is not they so much which speak , as god by them ; and in case that god himself should speak through the vail of humane nature , the testimony must needs be infallible though the appearance of the divinity be not visible . those evidences whereby a divine testimony may be known , must be such as may not leave mens minds in suspense , but are of their own nature convincing proofs of it . for although as to the event some may doubt , and others disbelieve the testimony so proved , yet it is sufficient for our purpose , that in the nature of the things ( supposing them to be such as we speak of ) they are sufficient for the eviction that the testimony attested by them is divine and infallible . i know it is a great dispute among many , whether those things which are usually called the common motives of faith , do of their own nature only induce a probable perswasion of the truth of the doctrine as probable which they are joyned with , or else are they sufficient for the producing a firm assent to the doctrine as true ? i grant they are not demonstrative so as to inforce assent ; for we see the contrary by the experience of all ages ; but that they are not sufficient foundation for an unprejudiced mind to establish a firm assent upon , is a thing not easie to be granted ; chiefly upon this account , that an obligation to believe doth lie upon every one to whom these evidences of a divine testimony are sufficiently discovered . and otherwise of all sins the sin of unbelief as to god revealing his mind , were the most excusable and pardonable sin ; nay , it would be little less then a part of prudence ; because what can it be accounted but temerity and imprudence in any to believe a doctrine as true only upon probable inducements ? and what can it be but wisdom to withhold assent upon a meer verisimilitude ? considering what the lyrick poet hath long since truly told us , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . that a falshood may frequently seem truer to common understandings then truth its self : and as menander speaks , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that a meer verisimilitude may have more force on vulgar minds then truth hath . if therefore there be no evidences given sufficient to carry the minds of men beyond meer probability , what sin can it be in those to disbelieve who cannot be obliged to believe as true what is only discovered as probable : i cannot therefore see how an obligation to believe a divine testimony is consistent with their opinion , who make the utmost which any outward evidences can extend to , to be only the bare credibility of the doctrine attested by them . i can very well satisfie my self with the ground and reason why the more subtle wits of the church of rome do essert this ; for if nothing else can be produced by all motives of faith but only a probable perswasion of the truth of christian doctrine , then here comes in the fairest pretence for the infallibility of their church ; for otherwise they tell us we can have no foundation for a divine faith ; for how can that be a foundation for divine faith , which can reach no higher then a moral inducement , and beget only a probable perswasion of the credibility of the doctrine of christ ? but on what account those who disown the infallibility of the church of rome in the proposal of matters of faith , should yet consent with those of it in an hypothesis taken up in probability , meerly out of subserviency to that most advantagious piece of the mysterie of iniquity , is not easie to resolve . unless the over-fondness of some upon the doctrine of the schools , more then of the gospel , hath been the occasion of it . for how agreeable can that opinion be to the gospel which so evidently puts the most defensive weapons into the hands of unbelief ? for doubtless in the judgement of any rational person , a meer probable perswasion of the credibility of the doctrine of christ , where an assent to it as true is required , can never be looked on as an act of faith ; for if my assent to the truth of the thing be according to the strength of the arguments inducing me to believe , and these arguments do only prove a probability of divine testimony , my assent can be no stronger then to a thing meerly probable ; which is , that it may be or not be true ; which is not properly assent , but a suspending our judgements till some convincing argument be produced on either side . and therefore according to this opinion those who saw all the miracles which christ did , could not be bound to believe in christ , but only to have a favourable opinion of his person and doctrine , as a thing which though not evidenced to be true by what he did , yet it was very piously credible ; but they must have a care withall of venturing their belief too far , only on such moral inducements as miracels were , for fear they should go farther then the force of the arguments would carry them . had not this opinion now , think we , been a very probable way to have converted the world upon the preaching of christ and his apostles ; when christ saith , though ye believe not me , believe the works , that ye may know and believe that the father is in me , and i in him ; nay saith this opinion , that is more then we are bound to do , though we see thy works , we are not bound to believe thy testimony to be divine and certainly true ; but we will do all we are bound to do ; we will entertain a favourable opinion of thy person and doctrine , and wait for somewhat else , but we do not well know what , to perswade us to believe . when the apostles preach the danger of unbelief , because the doctrine of the gospel was confirmed by signs and wonders , and divers miracles and gifts of the holy ghost ; what a fair answer doth this opinion put into the mouths of infidels , that notwithstanding all these signs and wonders , they were never bound to believe the gospel as a certain truth , and therefore they hope the danger is not so great in neglecting the salvation promised by the gospel . i cannot conceive that men otherwise learned and sober , should with so much confidence assert that the rational evidences of a divine testimony are insufficient to prove a doctrine true , unless it be from hence , that they find that notwithstanding the strongest evidences many persons continue in unbelief . for , say they , if these arguments were scientifical and demonstrative , ( as they speak ) of the truth of the doctrine attested by them , then all persons to whom they are propounded , must certainly believe . but this is very easily answered ; for we speak not of internal , but outward evidence , not of that in the subject , but of the object , or more fully of the reason of the thing , and not the event in us ; for doubtless there may be undoubted truth and evidence in many things which some persons either cannot or will not understand . if epicurus should contend still that the sun and stars are no bigger then they seem to be , will it hence follow that there can be no rational demonstration of the contrary ? nay if the way of demonstration be offered him , and telescopes put into his hands , yet if he be resolved to maintain his credit , and therefore his opinion , and will not use the telescopes , or suspect still they are intended only to deceive his sight , what possible way will there be of convincing such a person , though the thing be in its self demonstrable ? now if the strength of prejudice or maintaining of credit can prevail so much in matters of mathematical evidence to withhold assent , what power may we think a corrupt interest may have upon the understanding , as to the arguments which tend to prove the truth of that doctrine , which is so repugnant to that carnal interest which the heart is already devoted to . our blessed saviour hath himself given us so full an account of the original and causes of unbelief in the persons he conversed with , that that may yield us a sufficient answer to this objection . he tels us the ground of it was not want of light , nay , there was light sufficient to convince any , but that those to whom the light came loved darkness rather then it , because their deeds were evil . that they could not believe while they received honour one of another , and sought not the honour which was of god only , i. e. that they were so greedy of applause from each other , that they would not impartially search into the truth of that doctrine , which did touch their sores so to the quick , that they had rather have them fester upon them , then go to the trouble of so sharp a cure . that the reason so few followed him was because the way was narrow and the gate straight which men must go in at ; and therefore no wonder so few of the rich and proud pharisees could get in at it ; they were partly so sweld with a high opinion of themselves , and partly so loaden with their riches , that they thought it was to no purpose for them to think of going in at so straight a gate , while they were resolved to part with neither . that the final ground of the rejection of any , was not want of evidence to bring them to believe , nor want of readiness in christ to receive them if they did , but it was a peevish , wilful , obstinate , malicious spirit , that they would not come to christ , nor believe his doctrine ( for those import the same ) but when the most convincing miracles were used , they would rather attribute them to the prince of devils , then to the power of god. and though our saviour presently by rational and demonstrative arguments did prove the contrary to their faces ; yet we see thereby it was a resolution not to be convinced , or yield to the truth , which was the cause why they did not believe . now from this very instance of our saviours proceedings with the pharisees by rational arguments , i demand , whether these arguments of our saviour were sufficient foundations for a divine assent to that truth that our saviour did not his miracles by any diabolical , but by divine power or no ? if they were , then it is evident that rational evidence may be a foundation for divine faith ; or that some motives to believe may be so strong , as to be sufficient evidence of the truth and certainty of the doctrine : if these arguments were not sufficient proofs of what our saviour spake , then well fare the pharisees ; it seems they said nothing but what might be thus far justified , that the contrary to it , could not be demonstrated . and if the evidence of our s●viours miracles were so great , as some suppose , that the pharisees could not but be convinced that they were divine ; but out of their malice and envy they uttered this blasphemy against the holy ghost , to keep the people from following christ ; then we hence infer two things : first , how strong an evidence there was in the miracles of christ , when it convinced his most resolute enemies that they were divine . secondly , what power a corrupt will may have over a convinced understanding : for although the will may not hinder conviction , yet it may soon stifle it , by suggesting those things to the mind which may divert it from those convictions of truth , and seek to find out any ways to disgrace it . it would be no difficult task to discover in all those instances wherein the unbelief of men is discovered in the new t●stament , that the persons guilty of it did not proceed like rational men , or such as desired truth , but were wholly carried away through passion , interest , prejudice , disaffection , or some other cause of that nature , which may give us a sufficient account why those persons did not believe , although there might be clear and undoubted evidence to persw●de them to it . but although i assert that these rational evidences are sufficient arguments of the truth of the doctrine they come to manifest , yet i would not be so understood , that i thereby resolve all religion into a meer act of reason and knowledge , and that no more power is required in the understanding to believe the gospel , then to believe a mathematical demonstration ; which is another objection some lay in the way of this opinion ; but it is● ot difficult getting over it . for the sufficiency which i attribute to rational evidence , is not absolute and simple , but in suo genere , as an objective evidence . notwithstanding this , the whole work of the spirit of god in its peculiar energy and way of operation upon the soul , is left entire to its self : but then when the spirit works as to the planting of a truly divine faith , i do not think that it only perswades the soul of the truth of a divine testimony , but withall represents the truths revealed by that testimony , with all that excellency and suitableness that there is in them , that by the most agreeable , yet effectual influence of the spirit upon the soul , it cheerfully embraceth that truth which is revealed , and cordially yields up its self in obedience to it . this is the divine faith which the scripture acquaints us with , and not such a one as meerly believes the truth of a divine testimony ; and as to the production of this faith , i acknowledge meer rational evidence to be insufficient , because they proceed in ● very different ways ; the one is to satisfie mens minds of the truth of the doctrine , the other is to bring them effectually to adhere unto it . the asserting of the one therefore doth no more tend to destroy the other , then the saying that a telescope will help us to discover very much of the heavenly bodies , doth imply that a blind man may see them , if he makes but use of them . although therefore the natural man cannot savingly apprehend the things of god , yet there may be so much rational evidence going along with divine revelation , that supposing reason to be pure , and not corrupted and steeped in sense as now it is , it would discover spiritual evidence to be the most real and convincing evidence . thus far we have proved , that where there is any infallible testimony , there is sufficient rational evidence going along with it , to make it appear that it is from god. chap. ix . the rational evidence of the truth of christian religion from miracles . the possibility of miracles appears from god and providence ; the evidence of a divine testimony by them . god alone can really alter the course of nature . the devils power of working miracles considered . of simon magus , apollonius . the cures in the temple of aesculapius at rome , &c. god never works miracles , but for some particular end . the particular reasons of the miracles of christ. the repealing the law of moses , which had been setled by miracles . why christ checked the pharisees for demanding a sign , when himself appeals to his miracles . the power of christs miracles on many who did not throughly believe . christs miracles made it evident that he was the messias , because the predictions were fulfilled in him . why john baptist wrought no miracles . christs miracles necessary for the overthrow of the devils kingdom . of the daemoniacks and lunaticks in the gospel , and in the primitiv● church . the power of the name of christ over them largely proved by several testimonies . the evidence thence of a divine power in christ. of counterfeit dispossessions . of miracles wrought among infidels . of the future state of the church . the necessity of the miracles of christ , as to the propagation of christian religion : that proved from the condition of the publishers , and the success of the doctrine . the apostles knew the hazard of their imployment , before they entred on it . the boldness and resolution of the apostles notwithstanding this , compared with heathen philosophers . no motive could carry the apostles through their imployment , but the truth of their doctrine ; not seeking the honour , profit or pleasure of the world . the apostles evidence of the truth of their doctrine lay in being eye-witnesses of our saviours miracles and resurrection . that attested by themselves ; their sufficiency thence for preaching the gospel . of the nature of the doctrine of the gospel ; contrariety of it to natural inclinations . strange success of it , notwithstanding it came not with humane power : no christian emperour , till the gospel universally preached . the weakness and simplicity of the instruments which preached the gospel . from all which the great evidence of the power of miracles is proved . of all rational evidences which tend to confirm the truth of a divine testimony , there can be none greater then a power of working miracles for confirmation that the testimony which is revealed is infallible . the possibility of a power of miracles cannot be questiond by any who assert a deity and a providence ; for by the same power that things were either at first produced , or are still conserved ( which is equivalent to the other ) the course of nature may be altered , and things caused which are beyond the power of inferiour causes : for though that be an immutable law of nature as to physical beings , that every thing remains in the course and order wherein it was set at the creation ; yet that only holds till the same power which set it in that order shall otherwise dispose of it ; granting then the possibility of miracles , the subject of this hypothesis is , that a power of miracles is the clearest evidence of a divine testimony , which will appear from these following considerations . god alone can really alter the course of nature . i speak not of such things which are apt only to raise admiration in us because of our unacquaintedness with the causes of them , or manner of their production , which are thence called wonders , much less of meer juggles and impostures , whereby the eyes of men are deceived ; but i speak of such things as are in themselves either contrary to , or above the course of nature , i. e. that order which is established in the universe . the devil no question may , and doth often deceive the world , and may by the subtilty and agility of his nature , perform such things as may amuse the minds of men , and sometimes put them to it , to find a difference between them and real miracles , if they only make their s●nses judges of them . and such kind of wonders , though they are but spa●ingly done , and with a kind of secrecy ( as though they were consulting with catiline about the burning rome ) yet the devil would have some ( especially when ignorance and superstition are ascendents ) to keep up his interest in the world . or else when he is like to be dispossessed and thrown out of all , he then tryes his utmost to keep as many to him as may be ; thus when the spirit of god appeared in the miracles of our saviour and his apostles and the primitive church he then conjured up all the infernal powers to do something parallel , to keep possession of his idolatrous temples , as long as he could . thus we find simon magus dogging the apostles ( as it were ) at the heels , that by his magick he might stagger the faith of people concerning the miracles wrought by the apostles : after him apollonius appeared upon the stage ; but his wonders are such pittifull things , compared with those wrought by christ or his apostles , that it could be nothing but malice in hierocles to mention him in competition with christ. but those things which seem a great deal more considerable then either of these , were the cure of a blind man by vespasian in egypt , mentioned by tacitus and suetonius , wherein there was a palpable imitation of our saviours curing the blind man in the gospel ; for the man told vespasian , restituturum oculos si inspuisset , that he should receive his sight by his spittle ; so spartianus tells us of a woman that was cured of her blindness by kissing the knees of the emperour adrian ; and boxhornius hath produced an old fable in the temple of aesculapius at rome of several diseased persons that were cured there . a blind man in the time of antoninus was cured by this oracle ; he must come to the altar , and kneel there ; from the right side he must turn to the left , and put five fingers upon the altar , and then lift up his hands and touch his eyes , and so was cured . another called lucius cured of the pain of his side , by mixing the ashes of the altar with the wine , and applying it to his side ; another cured of spitting of blood by the kernel of a pine apple , and honey used three days ; a fourth cured of blindness by the blood of a white cock and honey , used three days upon his eyes . these are the most considerable of all the pretended mir●●les done about that time , when the noise of the christian miracles were spread so far and done so frequently , that they challenged the heathens again and again to bring forth any person possessed with a devil , if he did not confess to them that he was a devil , though he made the heathens believe that he was a god , they were contented to leave their blood in the place . for thus tertullian speaks in his apology to them . edat ur hic aliquis sub tribunalibus vestris , quem daemone agi constet : jussus à quolibet christiano loqui spiritus ille , tam se daemonem confitebitur de vero , quam alibi deum de falso : aeque producatur aliquis ex iis qui de deo pati ex stimantur , qui aris inhalantes numen de nidore concipiunt , qui ructando curantur , qui anhelando praefantur . ista ipsa virgo coelest is pluviarum pollicitatrix , iste ipse aesculapius medicinarum demonstrator , aliàs de morituris scordii & denatii & asclepiadoti subministrator , nisi se daemones confessi fuerint , christiano mentiri non audentes , ibidem illius christiani procacissimi sanguinem fundite . quid isto opere manifestius , quid hâc probatione fidelius ? simplicit as veritat is in medio est ; virtus illi sua assistit , nihil suspicari licebit , magia aut aliqua fallacia fieri . dictis non stetis , si oculi vestri & aures permiserint vobis . in these very daring words , we see how the christians appealed to their senses , even with the hazard of their own lives , that they would make even aesculapius himself confess what he was , and by whose power all the cures were wrought upon the dreamers in his temples . and for the manner of the devils cures , the same author explains it thus , laedunt primò , dehinc remedia praecipiunt ad miraculum nova , sive contraria , post quae definunt laedere & curassecreduntur . they first possess the bodies themselves ( as daemoniacks were common in those times ) and affect it with various distempers , afterwards upon using the strange remedies prescribed by aesculapius , they forsake their station , and the person is cured . and for the cures performed by the emperours , those who consider what various artifices were about that time used to procure an opinion of divinity in the emperours , will not much wonder that such reports should be spread of them , or that any persons should fain these distempers to give themselves out to be cured by them● but granting somewhat wonderfull in these , what are they , compared with those done by christians ? and whoever would lay down his life to attest any of them ? so that though the devil by his subtilty may easily impose upon spectators eyes , yet it was impossible for him by any power of his own to alter the course o● nature or produce any real miracle . for every true miracle is a production of something out of nothing ( which cannot be done by less then an omnipotent arm ) and that either in the thing it self , or the manner of producing it . in the thing it self when it is of that nature that it cannot be produced by any s●cond causes as the raising of the dead ; in the manner of doing it , when though the thing lyes within the possibility of second causes , yet it is performed without the help of any of them , as in the cure of diseases without any use of means , by a word speaking , the touch of a garment , &c. now that all those miracles which were wrought in confirmation of the christian doctrine were such true and proper miracles , will be discovered afterwards . god never alters the course of nature , but for some very considerable end . for otherwise when he did it , it would not be taken notice of , nor thought to be an alteration of the order of nature , but only some rare contingencies which lye hid in the order of causes , but only break out at some times : of which sort are all those things which the ignorant world is apt to account as prodigies . of all which rare contingencies in nature , i say , as the roman orator doth , si quod raro fit , id portentum putandum est , sapientem esse portentum est ; saepius enim mulum peperisse arbitror , quam sapientem fuisse . if all rare contingencies be accounted prodigies , a wise man is certainly the greatest prodigy . but these are quite of another nature from true miracles , which are immediatly produced by a divine power , and intended for a confirmation of some divine testimony . there are now several weighty reasons which might make miracles necessary in the time of our saviour , as an evidence of his divine authority and power . that he came to take down that way of worship which had been at first setled by a power of miracles in moses . god would not be so much wanting to the faith of that people which had received their law by signs and wonders from heaven , but that there should be as strong an evidence given to them , that the fulness of time was come when that dispensation was to have an end , and to give place to one more perfect , which was to be established instead of it . upon which account the iews might rationally enquire after a sign where any new revelation was discovered , which might null the obligation of any former law : and when they enquire so much after a sign , our saviour doth not reject the enquiry as in its self unreasonable , but as made in an unreasonable manner ; for they would not be contented with the miracles which our saviour wrought , which sufficiently manifested a divine power ; but all that they desired was a sign from heaven , i. e. such as were done at the giving of the law , the thundring and lightenings there , or as the raigning of manna in the wilderness ; now our saviour justly checks this demand as importune and impudent ; partly as knowing upon what account they asked it , meerly to tempt him , and not out of any real desire of satisfaction ; and partly because of that abundant evidence which was given in the miraculous cures which were wrought by him , which were more suitable to that design of doing good in the world , then all the thunderclaps on mount sinai were ; neither were the people in a condition to be fed by manna as they were in the wilderness , god graciously suiting the discoveries of his power to the peculiar advantages of the people which they were made to , and the dispensation they ushered in . those terrible signs at mount sinai being very suitable to the severity and rigour of the law ; and the gracious miracles of our saviour , to the sweetness and grace of the gospel . and on this account our saviour charged the iews with hypocrisie in requiring a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as something above 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a prodigy rather then a miracle ; an evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign , and there shall no sign be given it but that of the prophet ionas , i. e. this people which are so far from the faith of abraham , ( and therefore are supposititious children ) that no miracles which i do , will convince them , but they seek only to have their humours gratified more then their faith confirmed by some prodigy from heaven , shall not by me be thus gratified ; but having done enough already to perswade them , if they had any heart to believe , instead of a sign from heaven they shall have only one from the earth , and that not so much intended for the conversion of such wilfull unbelievers , as for the testifying my innocency to the world , viz. his resurrection from the dead . and so elsewhere when the iews demand a sign , it was upon the doing of that , which if they had attended to , had been a sufficient sign to them , viz. his driving the buyers and sellers out of the temple . which being a thing permitted by the sanbedrim and the priests , how could they think so mean a person , in appearance , as our saviour was , could ever have effected it , had it not been for a divine majesty and power which appeared in him . it was not then the expectation of miracles which our saviour rebuked in the iews , but being unsatisfied with the kind and nature of our saviours miracles . it was their hypocrisie and unbelief which christ condemned , notwithstanding the frequent miracles which he wrought among them : for we plainly find our saviour very often appealing to his miracles as the evidences of his divine commission : if i had not done the works among them , which no man else did , they had not sin , i. e. in not believing me . whereby christ both sets forth the necessity of his working miracles in order to the c●nviction of the wo●ld , and the greatness of the miracles which he wrought ; he did those no man else had done , no not moses and elias , in curing all manner of diseases by the word of his mouth ; and those miracles which they had done , he exceeded them in the manner of doing them . moses fed them with bread from heaven , but christ multiplied on earth some few loaves and fishes , to the feeding of many thousands : elias indeed raised one from the dead ; but christ raised more , and one after he had been four days in the grave . and upon this very evidence of our saviours miracles we find many believing on him . and even of those who were not so far wrought upon as to become followers of christ , as the only messias , yet we find them so far perswaded by the power of his miracles , that they looked upon him as a great prophet , or one that was sent from god : so nicodemus , who came first to christ more as a rational enquirer then a believer , yet we see he was perswaded that he was a teacher come from god , because no man could do the miracles which christ did , unless god were with him . and before him many of the iews at ierusalem believed in his name when they saw the miracles which he did ; yet these persons christ would not trust himself with , because he knew their hearts were not subdued to his doctrine , though their understandings were convinced by his miracles . and after this others of the iews that looked not on him as the messias , yet it is said they believed on him on the account of his miracles . and many of the people believed on him , and said , when christ cometh , will he do more miracles then these which this man hath done ? although herein they were most unreasonable in believing the evidence , and not the truth attested by it , in believing christ to be one sent from god by his miracles , and yet not believing him to be the messias , which was the thing attested by them . not that meer miracles would prove the person to be the messias who did them , but the miracles proved the testimony to be divine ; now that which christ delivered to them as a divine testimony , was his being the messias , and therefore by the same reason they believed him to be one sent from god , they ought to have believed him to be the messias ; for one sent from god could never falsifie in the main of his message , as this was of our saviours preaching . and thence it is observable , our saviour did not shew forth his divine power till he entred upon his office of preaching , thereby making it appear he intended this as the great evidence of the truth of the doctrine which he preached to them . and herein the blind man in the gospel saw more truth and reason then the whole court of sanhedrin , before which in probability he was convented about his cure by christ ; for when they sought to get something out of him in disparagement of our saviours person and miracle , he sharply and roundly tells them , when they said they knew god spake to moses , but for this fellow , we know not from whence he is . why herein , saith he , is a marvellous thing , that ye know not from whence he is , and yet he hath opened mine eyes . if this man were not of god he could do nothing ( as though he had said ) is it not plain that this man is imployed by god in the world by the miracles which he doth ? for otherwise god would not so readily assist him in doing such great works ; for we know that god heareth not sinners : but if any man be a worshipper of god , and doth his will , him he heareth ; i. e. if this man pretended a commission from heaven falsly ( whereby he would be the greatest of sinners ) can we think god would so miraculously assist him ? but we know by our law , if one comes with a commission from god , and draw men not to idolatry , which is meant by a worshipper of god , such a one god is present with , and we are bound to believe him . and for this very miracle , of curing one born blind , was the like ever heard of before ? did ever moses or the prophets do it ? thus we see what strong rational evidence there was in this miracle of christ in the judgement of this blind man , which he uttered with so much reason before the court of sanhedrin , when he knew how like he was to be excommunicated for it ; and yet this very person was as yet ignorant that christ was the true messias , as appears by the sequel of the chapter ; but upon christs revelation of himself to him , he presently believed on him . how strangely irrational were the iews then in rejecting our saviour when his miracles not only exceeded those of moses both in number and quality ; but which was more , they saw themselves the miracles which christ did , but they received those of moses only upon the credit of their fathers . and from the strength of the evidence arising from the power of miracles it is that st. peter tells the promiscuous assembly , acts . . that iesus of nazareth was a man approved of god among them , by miracles , wonders and signs , which god did by him in the midst of them , as they themselves also knew . he appeals to their own knowledge , which he would not certainly have done , had it not been in a case beyond all dispute among them . which was a thing so notorious among them , that we find the pharisees themselves confessing it , what do we ? for this man doth many miracles : now then in a nation whose religion had been established by miracles , and the certainty of the truth of it , among those who then professed it , did depend so much upon the constant credit which the report of the miracles done at the setling of their law had among them ; what could be a more rational convincing way of proceeding , then for our saviour to manifest by a greater power of miracles in himself the undoubted credentials of his commission from heaven ; and that he was the true messias , which was foretold by their own most sacred and authentical records ? which will appear more , because the power of miracles did evidently declare that he was the very person promised . for if the exact correspondency of the event to the predictions in a nation owning them as divine , be an undoubted evidence that they are exactly fulfilled , our saviour was most certainly the person so often spoken of in the old testament . for many of the prophecies of the old testament concerning the messias , if they were not fulfilled in christ , in the conditions the iews have been in since their dispersion , ( which fell out exactly according to the prediction of christ ) it is impossible they should be fulfilled at all . so that either the predictions must lose their divine authority , or they must be accomplished in our blessed saviour . for as tertullian sharply sayes to the iew , redde statum iudaeae quem christus inveniat , & alium contende venire ; let the people of the iews be in their former condition , and then plead for a messias to come . for can any thing be more plain then that the messias was to be born in bethlehem of iudea ? but where is that now , and how long since the iews enjoyed any civil polity there ? what is become of the second temple in the time of which the desire of all nations should come ? is not ierusalem already destroyed , and the oblation there long since ceased , which was to come to pass so soon after the messias , and did accordingly ? is not the scepter yet departed from judah , and the lawgiver from between his feet , and is not shiloh yet come ? what strange unintelligible weeks were those of daniel , if they were extended to so indefinite a space of time as the iews pretend ? and if indefinite , what certain ground could from thence be gathered of any time wherein their accomplishment was to be expected ? but not to expatiate on those things which are already so largely proved beyond all possibility of contradiction , by the antient and modern learned writers against the iews : to insist therefore on our present business ; are not the prophecies concerning the miracles which the messias should work exactly fulfilled in christ ? then the eyes of the blind shall be opened , and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped ; then shall the lame man leap as an hart , and the tongue of the dumb shall sing . he must be a great stranger in the history of the new testament that is to seek for an exact fulfilling of this prophecy . nay , and the iewish midrasch upon psal. . . saith that when messias comes , he should open the eyes of the blind ; and the iews themselves often speak of the great miracles which the messias should do when he appears ; and therefore out of their own mouths will they be condemned , when the miracles of christ make it so evident that he was the true messias . hence when iohn baptist sent his disciples to christ for them to be fully satisfied concerning him , christ gives this answer to them ; he bids them tell him the blind receive their sight , and the lame walk , and the lepers are cleansed , and the deaf hear , and the dead raised up , &c. as though the mentioning of these miracles was sufficient to make it appear to them who he was whom they came to enquire after . and therefore it is observable that iohn baptist himself , though greater then the prophets , nay then whom there was not a greater born of women by our saviours own testimony ; yet of him it is said , that he wrought no miracle : of which no account can be given so probable and rational , as that god in his infinite wisdom was pleased so to order it , that the evidence of our saviours being the messias might be made more clear by the miracles which he wrought ; that the minds of people might not be distracted between iohn and christ ; he therefore reserved the glory of miracles wholly to the name of christ , that there might be no pretence of a competition between iohn and him . another reason of the necessity of miracles in our saviour by way of rational evidence , is , the overthrowing the power and kingdom of the devil in the world . for which purpose it is observable that the devil had scarce ever greater power over the bodies of men as well as their souls , then at that time ; thence we read of such a multitude of daemoniacks in the gospel . for it seems very harsh to interpret those meerly of epilepticall and lunatick persons , both because the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are mentioned distinctly , and that it appears by the primitive church afterwards how frequent it was to eject the devil out of possessed persons . nay so far am i from thinking that the daemoniacks were meer lunaticks , that i rather think with vossius that the lunaticks were truly daemoniacks , only they were not constantly under the power of the devil , but as their paroxysmes returned upon them , the devil loving to fifh in such troubled waters . and thence the same person is called a lunatick in one place , who is called a daemoniack in another ; because he did ruere in principiis lunationum , as the arabick version expresseth it ; or as rusticus elpidius more fully explains it , repserat in medium rabies horrenda furoris daemonis afflatu , propria qui peste nocivus allidit captas foedo discrimine mentes , menstrua deciduos cum luna recolligit ignes . theophylact is of opinion , that the iews in the time of our saviour supposed , that the souls of dead men became daemons , and thence we read in scripture of the daemoniacks among the tombs : but it is far more probable which grotius conceives , that the iews were of opinion , that the souls of dead men did hover up and down about their bodies , and that these were so long under the devils power , which many of the iews to this day believe and make use of the instance of the pythonisse raising samuel ; on which account the devils to favour an opinion so advantagious to their interest , might appear with greater terror and fury about their burying places , as we see they did in those possessed persons . but on whatever account it was , we finde it evident that about the time of our saviours appearance , and some time after , the truly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were very frequent ; whether it were that the devil by such frequent possessions of persons , and making them do such strange things , might thereby endeavour to invalidate the evidence of our saviours miracles ( from whence it is probable the pharisees raised their calumny , that christ did miracles by belzebub , because they saw so many strange appearances caused by possessed persons ) or whether it were through the admirable providence of god , which might give satan the greater liberty at that time , on purpose to heighten the glory of our saviour in dispossessing of him , and thereby to give the highest rational evidence , that his power was of god , which tended so much to the destruction of the kingdom of satan . and hence the primitive christians did so much triumph , and as it were insult over the devil where ever they found him , making him to remove his lodgings from possessed persons , by a writ of ejection from the name of christ. thence origen rationally concludes that christ had his power given him from above , because at his very name the devils forsook the bodies which they had possessed . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and he elsewhere tells us , that even the meanest sort of christians without any ceremony , but meerly by their prayers , did ordinarily eject the devil out of mens bodies : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ordinary christians , saith he , most commonly do this , the grace of christ by its word thereby discovering the contemptibleness and infirmity of the devils , that in order to their ejection they did not so much as want any learned or experienced christian. and for this they appeal to the heathens themselves , as appears not only by the challenge of tertullian already mentioned , but by the testimony of almost all of them who have writ against the heathens in vindication of the christian religion . thence minutius felix , haec omnia sciunt plerique , pars vestrum , ipsos daemonas de semetipsis confiteri , quoties à nobis torment is verborum , & orationis incendiis de co●poribus exiguntur . ipse saturnus & serapis , et iupiter , et quiequid daemonum colitis , victi dolore quod sunt eloquuntur , nec utique in turpitudinem sui , nonnullis praesertim vestrum assistentib●s , mentiuntur . ipsis testibus eos esse daemonas , de se verum confitentibus credite ; adjuratienim per deum verum et solum , inviti , miseri corporibus inhorrescunt ; et vel exiliunt statim , vel evanesount gradatim , prout fides patientis adjuvat , aut gratia curantis aspirat . can we now think the devil should not only forsake his tyranny over the bodyes of men , but let go so advantagious a pillar of his tyranny over the consciences of men in idolatroius worship , as the concealing himself was , had he not been forced to it by a power far greater then his own ? so cyprian ad demetrianum , appeals to him being the proconsul of africa , about the same thing ( who had written sharply against the christians ) for speaking of the devils whom they worshipped in their idols . o si audire eos velles et videre , quando à nobis adjurantur et torquentur spiritualibus flagris et verborum tormentis de obsessis corporibus ejiciuntur , quando ejulantes et gementes voce humana , et potestate divina flagella et verbera sentientes , venturum judicium confitentur ; veni et cognosce vera esse quae dicimus : and a little after , videbis sub manu nostra stare vinctos , et tremere captivos , quos tu suspicis et veneraris ut dominos . did ever any of the heathen magicians ( of which there were good store ) extort such things from the devils as the christians did meerly by their prayers , and invocations of the name of god and christ ? did they ever make them confess to be what they were , not only in possessed bodyes but in their temples too ? that was beyond the power of their ephesian letters , or any of their magical incantations . did the devils ever dread so much the name of socrates or aristides as they did that of god and of christ ? of which lactantius thus speaks , quo audito tremunt , exclamant , et urise verberarique testantur , et interrogati qui sint , quando venerint , quando in hominem irrepserint , confitentur sic extorti , et excruciati virtate divininuminis exulant ; propter haec verbera et minas , sanctos et justos viros semper oderunt . and even apollo himself at the name of christ trembled as much as ever the pythian prophetess did in her greatest furies ; so prudentius tells us , torquetur apollo nomine percussus christi , nec fulmina verbi ferre potest ; agitant miserum tot verbera linguae , quot laudata dei resonant miracula christi . to these we may add what firmicus saith to the same purpose , ecce daemon est quem colis ; cum dei et christi ejus nomen audierit , contremiseit , et ut interrogantibus nob is respondeat trepidantia verba , vix se colligit ; adhaerens homini laceratur , uritur , vapulat , et statim de commissis sceleribus confitetur . by which testimonies it appears what power over satan , when he was in his kingdom , the christians by the power of christ had ; not as though the bare name of christ had so great an efficacy in the ejection of devils , as origen seem● to be of opinion ( in a discourse about the efficacy of names , unworthy of so great a philosopher ) but that god might manifest to the world the truth that was contained in that name , he did give a power to such as made use of it , of working miracles by it . and thence we read in scripture , that some who were not throughly christians , but yet professed the truth of the gospel , and that what they did was for the honour of christ , had a power of casting out devils and doing many wonderful things through his name . by these and many other testimonies which might be produced out of the primitive church , we finde an exact accomplishment of our saviours promise to his disciples when he took his leave of them : and these signs shall follow them that believe , in my name shall they cast out devils , &c. this power then in the primitive church had a twofold argument in it , both as it was a manifestation of the truth of the predictions of our saviour , and as it was an evidence of the divine power of christ , when his name so long after his ascension had so great a command over all the infernal spirits ; and that so evidently that at that time when the christians did as it were tyrannize over satan so in his own territories , yet then the greatest of his magicians had no power to hurt the bodyes of the christians , which is a thing origen takes much notice of . for when celsus saith from diogenes aegyptius that magick could only hurt ignorant and wicked men , and had no power over philosophers , origen replies , first , that philosophy was no such charm against the power of magick , as appears by maeragenes who writ the story of apollonius tyaneus , the famous magician and philosopher , who therein mentions how euphrates and an epicurean ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 no vulgar philosophers ) were catched by the magick of apollonius ( and although philostratus disowns this history of maeragenes as fabulous , yet he that thinks philostratus for that , to be of any greater credit , is much deceived , of whom lud. vives gives this true character , that he doth magna homeri mendacia majoribus mendaciis corrigere , mend one hole and make three ) but saith origen as to the christians , this is undoubtedly true : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . this , saith he , we are most certain of and have found it by experience true , that those who according to the principles of christianity do worship god over all , through iesus , and do live according to the gospel , being constant in their solemn prayers night and day , are not obnoxious to the power of any magick or devils whatsoever . now then if the devil who had then so much power over others , had none upon the true followers of christ ; and if in stead of that they had so great a commanding power over the devil even in things which tended most to his disadvantage , not only dislodging him out of bodies , ●●t out of his idolatrous temples ; what can be more evident , then that this power which was so efficacious for the overthrowing the kingdom of satan , must needs be far greater then the power of satan is ? for it is an undoubted maxime in natural reason , that whatever is put out of its former place by force and violence , is extruded by something stronger then its self ; for if the force on either side were equal , there could be no disposses sing of either ; if any thing then be cast out of its former possession unwillingly , it is an undenyable proof there was some power greater then his who was dispossessed . now we cannot conceive , if there be such malignant spirits as by many undeniable proofs it is evident there are , that they should willingly quit their possessions to such a doctrine which tends to the unavoydable ruine of their interest in the world ; if then the power of this doctrine hath overthrown the devils kingdom in the world , whereever it hath been truly entertained , it must necessarily follow , that this power is far above the power of any damned spirits . now what folly and madness was it in the heathens to worship those for gods , which they could not but see , if they would open their eyes , were under so great slavery to a power above them , which could make them confess what was most to their disadvantage in the presence of their great adorers ? neither ought the many counterfeits and impostures which have been in the world in this kind since the establishment of christian religion ( among the advancers of particular interests and designs ) make us suspect the truth of those things which were done in the first ages of the church of christ. for first it stands to the greatest reason , that the strongest arguments for the truth of a religion ought to be fetched from the ages of its first appearance in the world ; if then the evidence be undoubted as to those first times , we ought to embrace our religion as true , whatever the impostures have been among those who have apparently gone aside from that purity and simplicity of the gospel , which had so great power . then secondly , if all that hath been done in this kind of ejecting devils , where christianity is owned , be acknowledged for impostures ; one of these two things must be supposed as the ground of it ; either that there was no such thing as a real possession by the devil , or else there was no such thing as a dispossessing him : if the first , then hereby will be seen a confirmation of our former argument , that where christianity is owned , by the power of that , the devil is more curbed and restrained , then where it is not , or else is much over-run with ignorance and superstition . of the latter , the ages of the christian church , from the . century to the beginning of the . current , are a clear evidence : of the first , all those who have been conversant in the places where paganism or gross idolatry do yet reign , will bring in their creditable testimonies , how tyrannical the power of the devil is yet among them . if it be not so then , where careful endeavours have been used for retriving the ancient p●rity of christian doctrine and worship , we ought to impute it to the power of him who is stronger then satan , who whereever he comes to dwell , doth dispossess him of his former habitations . if the second then be entertained as the ground of concluding all things as impostures , which are accounted dispossessions of satan , viz. that he never is really dispossessed , then it must either be said , that where he is once seized , there is no possibility of ejecting him ; which is to say , that the devil hath an absolute and infinite power , and that there is no power greater then his , which is to own him for god ; or else that god suffers him to tyrannize where and how he will , which is contrary to divine providence , and the care god takes of the world , and of the good of mankind ; or else lastly , that those persons who pretend to do it , are not such persons who are armed so much with the power of christ , nor possessed with such a due spirit of the gospel , which hath command over these infernal spirits . and this in the cases pretended by the great iuglers and impostors of the christian world , the popish priests have been so notorious , that none of their own party of any great faith or credit would stand to vouch them . and we have this impregnable argument against all such impostures , that the matters which they by such actions would give an evidence to , being so vastly different from , if not in some things diametrically opposite to the first delivery and design of the christian faith , it is inconsistent with the way used for the confirmation of christian religion in the first publishing of it , to attest the truth of such things by any real miracles : for so it would invalidate the great force of the evidences of the truth of christianity , if the same argument should be used for the proving of that which in the judgement of any impartial person was not delivered , when the truth of the doctri●e of christ was confirmed by so many and uncontrouled miracles . but hereby we see what unconceivable prejudice hath been done to the true primitive doctrine of the gospel ; and what stumbling-blocks have been laid in the way of considerative persons , to keep them from embracing the truly christian faith , by those who would be thought the infallible directors of men in it , by making use of the broad-seal of heaven ( set only to the truth of the scriptures ) to confirm their unwritten and superstitious ways of worship . for if i once see that which i looked on as an undoubted evidence of divine power , brought to attest any thing directly contrary to divine revelation ; i must either conclude that god may contradict himself by sealing both parts of a contradiction , which is both blasphemous and impossible ; or that that society of men which own such things , is not at all tender of the honour of christain doctrine , but seeks to set up an interest contrary to it , and matters not what disadvantage is done to the grounds of r●ligion by such unworthy pretences ; and which of these two is more rational and true , let every ones conscience judge . and therefore it is much the interest of the christian world to have all such frauds and impostures discovered , which do so much disservice to the christian faith , and are such secret fomenters of atheism and infidelity . but how far that promise of our saviour , that they which believe in his name , shall cast out devils , and do many miracles , may extend even in these last ages of the world to such generous and primitive-spirited christians , who out of a great and deep sense of the truth of christianity and tenderness to the souls of men , should go among heathens and infidels to convert them only to christ ( and not to a secular interest , under pretence of an infallible head ) is not here a place fully to enquire . i confess i cannot see any reason why god may not yet for the conviction of infidels , employ such a power of miracles , although there be not such necessity of it , as there was in the first propagation of the gospel , there being some evidences of the power of christianity now , which were not so clear then ( as the overthrowing the kingdom of satan in the world , the prevailing of christianity notwithstanding force used against it ; the recov●ry of it from amidst all the corruptions which were mixed with it ; the consent of those parties in the common foundations of christianity , which yet disagre● fro● each other with great bittern●ss of spirit ) though i say it be not of that necessity now , when the scriptures are conv●yed to us in a certain uninterrupted manner ; yet god may please out of his abundant provision for the satisfaction of the minds of men , concerning the truth of christian doctrine , to employ good men to do something which may manifest the power of christ to be above the d●vils , whom they worship . and therefore i should far sooner believe the relation of the miracles of xaverius and his brethren , employed in the conversion of infidels , then lipsius his virgo hallensis and asprecollis , could it but be made evident to me that the design of those persons had more of christianity then popery in it ; that is , that they went more upon a design to bring the souls of the infidels to heaven , then to enlarge the authority and jurisdiction of the roman church . but whatever the truth of those miracles , or the design of those persons were , we have certain and undoubted evidence of the truth of those miracles , whereby christianity was first propagated , and the kingdom of satan overthrown in the world ; christ thereby making it appear that his power was greater then the devils , who had possession , because he overcame him , took from him all his armour wherein he trusted , and divided his spoils ; i. e. disposs●ssed him of mens bodies , and his idolatrous temples , silenced his oracles , nonplust his magicians , and at last , when christianity had overcome by suffering , wrested the worldly power and empire out of the devils hands , and employed it against himself . neither may we think , because since that time the devil hath got some ground in the world again by the large spread of mahometism , & the general corruptions in the christian world , that therefore the other was no argument of divine power ; because the truth of christianity is not tyed to any particular places ; because such a falling away hath been foretold in scripture ; and therefore the truth of them is proved by it , and because god himself hath threatned that those who will not receive the truth in the love of it , shall be given up to strong de'usions . doth not this then in stead of abating the strength of the argument , confirm it more , and that nothing is fallen out in the christian world , but what was foretold by those whom god employed in the converting of it ? but we are neither without some fair hopes even from that divine revelation which was sealed by uncontrouled evidence , that there may be yet a time to come when christ will recover his churches to their pristine purity and simplicity ; but withall i think we are not to measure the future felicity of the church by outward splendor and greatness ( which too many so strongly fancy ) but by a recovery of that true spirit of christianity which breathed in the first ages of the church , whatever the outward condition of the church may be : for if worldly greatness , and ease , and riches , were the first impairers of the purity of christian religion , it is hard to conceive how the restoring of the church of christ to its true glory , can be by the advancing of that , which gives so great an occasion to pride and sensuality , which are so contrary to the design of christian religion ; unless we suppose men free from those corruptions , which continual experience still tells the world the rulers as well as members of the christian society are subject to . neither may that be wonderd at , when such uneveness of parts is now discovered in the great luminaries of the world , and the sun himself is found to have his maculae , as though the sun had a purple feaver , or as kiroher expresseth it , ipse phoebus , qui rerum omnium in universo naturae theatro aspectabilium longè pulcherrimus omnium opinione est habitus , hoc seculo tandem fumosa facie , ac infecto vultu maculis prodiit ; diceres eum variolis laborare senescentem : i speak not this as though an outward flourishing condition of the church were inconsistent with its purity ; for then the way to refine it , were to throw it into the flames of persecution ; but that the advancement of the flourishing condition of the church , is not meerly by outward pomp and grandeur , and that the purity of the church is not inconsistent with a state of outward difficulties , which the experience o● the primitive church gives an irrefragable demonstration of . thus much may serve to shew the necessity of a power of miracles , conjoyned with the christian doctrine , to manifest the truth of it by overthrowing the kingdom of that great antichrist the devil , who had usurped so much tyranny over the world . the last reason why a power of miracles was so necessary for confirming the truth of the gospel , is , because the gospel was to be propagated over the world without any other rational evidence then was contained in the miracles wrought for the confirmation of it . now the admirable success which this doctrine found in the world , considering all the circumstances of it , doth make it clear what certainty there was that the miracles which were wrought were true , and they were certain evidences that the doctrine attested by them was from god. now this will appear from these two things . that no rational account can be given why the apostles should undertake to publish such a doctrine , unless they had been undoubtedly certain that the doctrine was true , and they had sufficient evidence to perswade others to beleeve it . that no satisfactory account can be given , considering the nature of the doctrine of christ , and the manner of its propagation , why it should meet with so great acceptance in the world , had there not been such convincing evidence as might fully perswade men of the truth of it . i begin with the first , from the publishers of this doctrine in the world : all that i here require by way of a postulatum or supposition , are onlythese two things , which no man right in his wits i suppose will deny : . that men are so far rational agents , that they will not set upon any work of moment and difficulty , without sufficient grounds inducing them to it ; and by so much the greater the work is , the more sure and stedfast had the grounds need to be which they proceed upon . . that the apostles or first publishers of the christian doctrine were not men distracted , or bereft of their wits , but acted by principles of common sense , reason , and understanding , as other men in the world do : which if any one should be so far beside his wits as to question , if he have but patience and understanding enough to read and consider those admirable writings of theirs which are conveyed to us by as certain uninterrupted a tradition as any thing in the world hath been ; and by that time he will see cause to alter his judgement , and to say that they are not mad , but speak the words of the greatest truth and soberness . these things supposed , i now proceed to the proving of the thing in hand , which will be done by these three things : first , that the apostles could not but know how h●zardous an employment the preaching of the gospel would be to them . secondly , that no motive can be conceived sufficient for them to undertake such an employment , but the infallible truth of the doctrine which they preached . thirdly , that the greatest assurance they had themselves of the truth of their doctrine , was by being eye-witnesses of the miracles of christ. first , that the apostles could not but understand the hazard of their employment , notwithstanding which they cheerfully undertook it . that men armed with no external power , nor cried up for their wit and learning , and carrying a doctrine with them so contra●y to the general inclinations of the world , having nothing in it to recommend it to mankind but the truth of it , should go about to perswade the world to part with the religion they owned , and was setled by their laws , and to embrace such a religion as called them off from all the things they loved in this world , and to prepare themselves by mortification & self-denial for another world , is a thing to humane reason incredible , unless we suppose them acted by a higher spirit then mankind is ordinarily acted by . for what is there so desirable in continual reproaches & contumelies ? what delight is there in racks and prisons ? what agreeableness in flames and martyrdoms to make men undergo some , nay all of these rather then disown that doctrine which they came to publish ? yet these did the apostles cheerfully undergo in order to the conversion of the world , to the truth of that doctrine which they delivered to it . and not only so , but though they did foresee them , they were not discouraged from this undertaking by it . i confess , when men are upon hopes of profit and interest in the world , engaged upon a design which they promise themselves impunity in , having power on their side , though afterwards things should fall out contrary to their expectation , such persons may die in such a cause , because they must , and some may carry it out with more resolution , partly through an innate fortitude of spirit , heightened with the advantages of religion , or an enthusiastick temper . but it is hard to conceive that such persons would have undertaken so hazardous an employment , if beforehand they had foreseen what they must have undergone for it . but now the apostles did foreknow that bonds and imprisonment , nay death its self must be undergone in a violent manner , for the sake of the doctrine which they preached ; yet not withstanding all this , they go boldly and with resolution on with their work , and give not over because of any hardships and persecutions they met withall . one of the chiesest of them , s. peter , and as forward as any in preaching the gospel , had the very manner of his death foretold him by christ himself , before his ascension ; yet soon after we find him preaching christ in the midst of those who had crucified him , and telling them to their faces the greatness of their sin in it , and appealing to the miracles which christ had done among them , and bidding them repent and believe in him whom they had crucified , if ever they would be saved : and this he did , not only among the people who gave their consent to the crucifying of christ , but soon after , being convented●ogether ●ogether with iohn , before the court of sanbedrin ( probably the very same which not long before had sentenced christ to death ) for a miracle wrought by them , with what incredible boldness doth he to their faces tell them of their murdering christ ; and withall , that there was no other way to salvation but by him whom they had crucified ! be it known unto you all ( saith peter to the sanhedrin ) and to all the people of israel , that by the name of iesus christ whom ye have crucified , whom god raised from the dead , even by him doth this man stand here before you whole . neither is there salvation in any other : for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved . what an heroickfreedom of spirit appears in these words ! what magnanimity and courage was there now in that person , who durst in the face of this court tell them of their murder , and that there was no salvation but by him whom they had crucified ! well might they wonder at the boldness of the men , who feared not the same death which they had so lately brought their lord and master to . neither was this singly the case of peter and iohn , but all the rest of the apostles undertook their work with the same resolution and preparation of spirit to under go the greatest hardship in the world sor the sake of the truths they preached . and accordingly as far as ecclesiastical history can ascertain us of it , they did all but iohn ( and that to make good the prediction of christ ) suffer violent deaths by the hands of those who persecuted them meerly for their doctrine . and which is most observable , when christ designed them first of all for this work , he told them before hand of reproaches , persecutions , all manner of hardships , nay of death its self which they must undergo for his sake . all that he gave them by way of encouragement , was , that they could only kill the body and not the soul , and therefore that they should fear him only who could destroy both body and soul in hell ; all the support they had , was , an expectation in another world , and that animated them to go through all the hardships of this . where do we ever read of any such boldness and courage in the most knowing philos●phers of the heathens ? with what saintness and misgiving of mind doth socrates speak in his famous discourse suppo●ed to be made by him before his death ? how uncertainly doth he speak of a state of immortality ? and yet in all probability plato set it forth with all advantages imaginable . where do we finde that ever any of the great friends of socrates , who were present at his death , as phaedo , cebes , crito , and simmias , durst enter the areopagus , and condemn them there for the murther of socrates , though this would be far short of what the apostles did ? why were they not so charitable as to inform the world better of those grand truths of the being of god and immortality of souls , if at least they were fully convinced of them themselves ? why did not plato at least speak out , and tell the world the truth , and not disguise his ●iscourses under feigned names , the better to avoid accusation and the fate of socrates ? how doth he mince his excellent matter , and playes as it were at bo-peep with his readers , sometimes appearing and then pulling in his horns again ? it may not be an improbable conjecture that the death of socrates was the foundation of the academy ; i mean of that cautelous doctrine of withholding assent , and being both pro and con , sometimes of this side , and sometimes of that : for socrates his death had made all his friends very fearful of being too dogmatical . and plato himself had too much riches and withall too much of a courtier in him to hazard the dear prison of his soul , viz. his body , meerly for an aethereall vehicle . he had rather let his soul flutter up and down in a terrestrial matter , or the cage it was p●nt up in , then hazard too violent an opening of it by the hands of the areopagus . and the great roman orator among the rest of plato's sentiments had learnt this too ; for although in his discourses he hath many times sufficiently laid open the folly of the heathen worship and theology , yet he knows how to bring himself off safe enough with the people ; and will be sure to be dogmatical only in this , that nothing is to be innovated in the religion of a common-wealth , and that the customs of our ancestors are inviolably to be observed . which principles had they been true as they were safe for the persons who spake them , the christian religion had never gained any entertainment in the world ; for where ever it came , it met with this potent prejudice that it was looked on as an innovation , and therefore was shrewdly suspected by the governours of common-wealths , and the preachers of it punished as factious and seditious persons ; which was all the pretext the wise politicians of the world had for their cruel and inhumane persecutions of such multitudes of peaceable and innocent christians . now when these things were foretold by the apostles themselves before their going abroad so plainly , that with the same saith they did believe the doctrine they preached to be true , they must believe that all these things should come to pass , what courage and magnanimity of spirit was it in them thus to encounter dangers and as it were court the slames ? nay and before the time was come that they must dye , to seal the truth of their doctrine , their whole life was a continual peregrination , wherein they were as so many iobs in pilgrimage , encounterd with perills and dangers on every side ; of which one of the most painful and succesful , s. paul hath given in such a large inventory of his perils , that the very reading of them were enough to undo a poor epicurean philosopher , and at once to spoil him of the two pillars of his happiness , the quietness of his mind and ease of his body . thus we see what a hazardous imployment that was which the apostles went upon , and that it was such as they very well understood the di●●iculty of before they set upon it . secondly , we cannot find out any rational motive which could carry them through so hazardous an employment , but the full convictions of their minds of the undoubted truth and certainty of the doctrine which they delivered . we find before that no vulgar motives in the world could carry them upon that design which they went upon ; could they be led by ambition and vain glory who met with such reproaches where ever they went ; and not only persecutions of the tongue , but the sharper ones of the hands too ? we never read of any but the primitive christians who were ambitious of being martyrs , and thought long till they were in the flames : which made arrius antoninus being proconsul of asia when christians in multitudes beset his tribunal and thronged in to be condemned , say to them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . o miserable people , had not ye wayes enough to end your lives at h●me , but ye must croud for an execution ! this was a higher ambition by far then any of those mancipia gloriae , those chamaeleons that lived on the breath of applause , the heathen philosophers ever reached to , who were as tertullian expresseth it , homines gloriae & eloquentiae solius libidinosi , unsatiable thirsters after the honour and eloquence of the world ; but the spirit of a christian did soare too high to quarry on so mean a pr●y . when the more sober heathens had taken a stricter notice of the carriages and lives of the preachers of the gospel and all their genuine followers , they instead of the common and rude name of impostors , gave them a more civil title of philosophers , and looked upon their doctrine as a sublimer kind of philosophy , non utique divinum negotium existimant sed mag is philosophiae genus , as tertullian tells us , because the philosophers pretended so much to moral vertues which they saw the christians so excellent in ; but as tertullian there replies , nomen hoc philosophorum daemonia non fugat , the devil was never afraid of a philosophers beard , nor were diseases cured by the touch of a philosophick pallium . there was something more divine in christians then in the grave philosophers ; and that not only in reference to their lives , and the divine power which was seen in them , but in reference to the truth and certainty of their doctrine , it being a true character given of both , by that same excellent writer in behalf of the christians of his time : veritatem philosophi quidem aff●ctant , possident autem christiani ; what the philosophers desired only , the christians enjoy , which was truth : and as he elsewhere more fully speaks , mimicè philosophi affectant veritatem , & affectando corrum . punt , ut qui gloriam captant ; christianieam necessariò appetunt & integri praestant , ut qui saluti suae curant . truth is the philosophers mistress which by courting he vitiates and corrupts , looking at nothing but his own glory : but truth is the christians matron whose directions he observes and follows , because he regards no glory but that to come . and to let them further see what a difference there was between a christian and a philosopher , he concludes that discourse with these words , quid adeo simile philosophus & christianus ? graeciae discipulus et coeli ? famae negotiator et vitae ? verborum et factorum operator ? rerum aedificator et destructor ? amicus et inimicus erroris ? veritatis interpolator et integrator ? furator ejus et custos ? as much distance ( saith he ) as there is between greece and heaven , between applause and eternal glory , between words and things , between building and destroying , between truth and error , between a plagiary and corrupter of truth , and a preserver and advancer of it ; so much is there between a philosopher and a christian. the heathens might suspect indeed some kind of affinity between the first preachers of the gospel and the antient sophists of greece , because of their frequent going from place to place , and pretending a kind of enthusiasm as they did : but as much difference as there is between a knight errant and hercules , between a mountebank and hippocrates , that and much greater there is between a greek sophist and an apostle . socrates in plato's euthydemus hath excellently discovered the vanity and futility of those persons under the persons of euthydemus and dionysodorus , and so likewise in his protagoras ; their intent was only like the retiaries in the roman spectacles to catch their adversaries in a net ; to intangle them with some captious question or other ; but how vastly different from this was the design of the apostles who abhord those endless contentions which then were in the heathen world ; and came to shew them that truth which was revealed with an intent of making them better men ! we see the apostles were not carried forth by any mean and vulgar motives , neither did they drive on any private ends of their own ; all that they minded was the promoting of the doctrine which they preached . nay they accounted no hazards comparable with the advantage which the world enjoyed through the propagation of the christian religion . this shewed a truly noble and generous spirit in them which would not be hindred from doing the world good , though they found so bad entertainment from it ; yea they rejoyced in their greatest sufferings which they underwent in so good a cause ; wherein those primitive christians who were the genuine followers of the apostles , did so far imitate them , that , etiam damnati gratias agunt , they gave the iudges thanks that they thought them worthy to lose their lives in a cause which they had reason to triumph in , though they died for it . and when any of them were apprehended , they discovered so little fear of punishment , ut unum solummodo quod non ante suerint paeniteret , that nothing troubled them so much as that they had been christians no sooner , as one of their number speaks . and when the heathens usually scoffed at them and called them sarmentitii and semaxii because they were burned upon the cross , one of them in the name of the rest answers , hic est habitus victoriae nostrae , haec palmata vestis , tali curru triumphamus ; the cross was only their triumphant chariot which carried them sooner to heaven . now this courage and resolution of spirit which was seen in the first planters of christianity in the world made all serious and inquisitive persons look more narrowly into those things . which made men slight so much the common bug-bears of humane nature , sufferings and death . quis enim non contemplatione ejus concutitur , adrequirendum quid intus in re sit ? quis non ubi requisivit accedit ? ubi accessit patiexoptat ? these sufferings made men enquire ; this enquiry made them believe ; that belief made them as willing to suffer themselves as they had seen others do it before them . thus it appeared to be true in them , 〈◊〉 q●●que crudelitas , illecebra magis est sectae ; plures ●fficimur qu●●ties metimur a vobis ; semen est sanguis christianorum ; the cruelty of their ●nemies did but increase their number ; the harvest of their pretended justice was but the seed-time of christianity , and no seed was so fruitful as that which was steeped in the blood of martyrs . thence iustin martyr ingenuously saith of himself , that while he was a platonick philosopher , he derided and scoffed at the christians ; but when he considered their great courage and constancy in dying for their profession , he could not think those could possibly be men wicked and voluptuous , who when offers of life were made them , would rather choose death then deny christ. by which he found plainly that there was a higher spirit in christianity then could be obtained by the sublime notions and speculations of plato , and that a poor ignorant christian would do and suffer more for the sake of christ then any of the academy in defence of their master plato . now since all men naturally abhor sufferings , what is it which should so powerfully alter the nature and disposition of christians above all other persons , that they alone should seem in that to have forgot humanity , that not only with patience , but with joy they endured torments and abode the flames ? what! were they all p●ssessed with a far more then stoical apathy , that no sense o● pain could work at all upon them ? or were they all besotted and infatuated persons that did not know what it was they underwent ? ●t is true some of the more blind and wilfull heathens derided them as such ; but who were the more infatuated , let any sober person judge ; they who slighted and rejected a doctrine of so great concernment , which came attested with so much resolution and courage in the professors of it ; or they who were so far perswaded of the truth of it , that they would rather die than deny it ? dicimus & palam dicimus , et vobis torquentibus lacerati et cruenti vociferamur , deum colimus per christum . they were not ashamed to believe in the blood of christ even when their own blood ran down besore their eyes , and confess christ with their mouths when their bodies were upon the rack . certainly then there were some very powerfull and convincing arguments which buoyed up the spirits of true christians in that deluge of sufferings which they were to swim through ; it must be a strong and well grounded faith which would hold out under so great tryals , and they could not be to seek for the most perswasive motives to faith , who were so ready to give an account to others of the hope that was in them , and to perswade all other persons to the embracing of it . with what face and confidence otherwise could they perswade men to embrace a doctrine so dangerous as that was , had there not been motives sufficient to bear up against the weight of susferings , and arguments perswasive to convince them of the undoubted certainty of that doctrine which they encouraged them to believe ? now that which appears to have been the main ground of satisfaction to the primitive christians as to the truth and certainty of the doctrine of christ , was this , that the doctrine of the gospel was at first delivered to the world , by those persons who were themselves eye-witnesses of all the miracles which our saviour wrought in confirmation of the truth of what he spake . they were such persons who had been themselves present , not only to hear most of our saviours admirable discourses when he was in the world , but to see all those glorious things which were done by him , to make it appear that he was immediately sent from god. let us now appeal to our own faculties , and examine a little what rational evidence could possibly be desired , that the doctrine of the gospel was true , which god did not afford to the world ? what could the persons who were the auditors of our saviour desire more as an evidence that he came from god , then his doing such things which were certainly above any created power either humane or diabolical , and therefore must needs be divine ? what could other persons desire more who were not present at the doing of these miracles , but that the report of them should be conveyed to them in an undoubted manner by those persons who were eye-witnesses of them , and made it appear to the world they were far from any intention of deceiving it ? now this makes the apostles themselves in their own writings ( though they were divinely inspired ) appeal to the rational evidence of the truth of the things in that they were delivered by them who were eye-witnesses of them . there st. peter speaks thus to the dispersed iews , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for we have not followed cunningly devised fables , when we made known unto you the power and coming of our lord jesus christ , but were eye-witnesses of his majesty . the power and coming of christ which the apostle speaks of , was not as some improbably conceive , either his general coming to judgement upon the world , or his particular coming upon the nation of the iews ; but by an hendyades , by his power and coming is meant his powerful appearance in the world , whereby he mightily discovered himself to be the son of god. now this saith the apostle , was no 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not like the heathen mythology concerning the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of their gods among them ( which were so frequently believed among them that dionysins halycarnassaeus condemns the epicureans , because they did deride 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the appearances of their gods in the world ) now saith the apostle , assure your selves this is no such appearance of a god on earth as that among the heathens was ; for saith he we our selves who declare these things were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we fully understood this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this great mystery of godliness , god manifest in the flesh , for we saw his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that great majesty which attended him in all which he spake or did ; we saw all those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the great things of god , which were manifest in him , all those mir●culous operations which were wrought by him . therefore as this was a great confirmation of the faith of the apostles themselves that they saw all these things , so we see it was of great concernment to the world in order to their belief that the gospel was no cunningly devised fable , in that it was delivered by such who were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 eye-witnesses of what they declared . to the same purpose st. iohn speaks ad conciliandam fidem , to make it appear how true what they delivered was , in the entrance of his epistle ; that which was from the beginning , which we have heard , which we have seen with our eyes , which we have looked upon , and our hands have handled of the word of life ( for the life was manifested , and we have seen it , and bear witness , and shew unto you that eternal life which was with the father and was manifested unto us ) that which we have seen and heard , declare we unto you . we see what great force and weight the apostle layes upon this , that they delivered nothing but what they had seen and heard ; as they heard the doctrine of christ , so they saw the miracles which he wrought in confirmation of it . st. luke likewise in the beginning of his gospel declares that he intended to write nothing but what he had perfect understanding of from such persons who had been 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 eye-witnesses , and instruments themselves in part of what was written , for that is meant by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : and those things which were written , he saith were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , things which are abundantly proved to be true ; for being matters of ●act , there could be no stronger proof of them , then by such who were eye-witnesses of what they spake . and this we find the apostles themselves very cautious about , in the choice of a new apostle in the room of iudas . wherefore of these men which have companied with us , all the time that the lord iesus went in and out among us , beginning from the baptism of john , unto that same day , that he was taken from us , must one be ordained to be a witness of his resurrection : for , because christ was mightily declared to be the son of god by his resurrection from the dead , ( as that which was the great seal of our saviours being the son of god ) therefore we find the apostles so frequently attesting the truth of the resurrection of christ , and that themselves were eye-witnesses of it . this iesus , saith peter , hath god raised up , whereof we all are witnesses . and again , and killed the prince of life , whom god hath raised up from the dead , whereof we are witnesses ; and both peter and iohn to the sanhedrin ; for we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard . and the whole colledge of apostles afterwards , and we are his witnesses of these things , and so is also the holy ghost , whom god hath given to them that obey him . in which words they give them that twofold rational evidence which did manifest the undoubted truth of what they spake ; for they delivered nothing but what themselves were witnesses of , and withall was declared to be true by the power of the holy ghost in the miracles which were wrought by and upon believers . afterwards we read the sum o● the apostles preaching , and the manner used by them to perswade men of the truth of it , in the words of peter to cern●lius and his company , how god annointed iesus of nazareth with the holy ghost and with power , who went about doing good , and healing all that were oppressed of the devil , for god was with him : and we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the iews and in hierusalem , whom they stew and hanged on a tree : him god raised up the third day , and shewed him openly , not to all the people , but unto witnesses chosen before of god , even to us who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead . and he com●anded us to ●reach unto the people , that it is be which was ordained of god to be the iudge of quick and dead . by all which we see what care god was pleased to take for the satisfaction of the world in point of rational evidence , as to the truth of the matters which were discovered concerning our saviour christ , because he made choice of such persons to be the preachers and writers of these things who were the best ab●e to satisfie the world about them , viz. such as had been eye witnesses of them . now in order to the making it more fully evident what strength there was in this testimony given by the apostles to the miracles of christ , we shall more fully manifest the rational evidence which attended it in these following propositions . where the truth of a doctrine depends upon a matter of fact , the truth of the doctrine is sufficiently manifested , if the matter of fact be evidently proved in the highest way it is capable of . thus it is in reference to the doctrine of christ ; for the truth of that is so interwoven with the truth of the story of christ , that if the relations concerning christ be true , his doctrine must needs be divine and infallible . for if it be undoubtedly true , that there was such a person as christ born at bethlehem , who did so many miracles , and at last suffered the death of the cross , and after he had lain three dayes in the grave rose again from the dead , what reason imaginable can i have to question , but that the testimony of this person was certainly divine , and consequently what ever he preached to the world was most certain and undoubted truth : so that if we have clear evidence as to the truth of these passages concerning our saviour , we must likewise believe his doctrine , which came attested with such pregnant evidences of a divine commission which he had from god to the world : no prince can think he hath any reason to refuse audience to an embassador , when he finds his credentials such as he may rely upon ; although himself doth not see the sealing of them ; much less reason have we to question the truth of the doctrine of the gospel , if we have sufficient evidence of the truth of the matters of fact concerning christ , in such a way as those things are capable of being proved . the greatest evidence which can be given to a matter of fact , is the attesting of it by those persons who were eye-witnesses of it . this is the foundation whereon the firmest assent is built , as to any matter of fact ; for although we conceive we have reason to suspect the truth of a story , as long as it is conveyed only in a general way , by an uncertain fame and tradition , yet when it comes to be attested by a sufficient number of credible persons who profess themselves the cye-witnesses of it , it is accounted an unreasonable thing to distrust any longer the truth of it ; especially in these two cases . . when the matter they bear witness to is a thing which they might easily and clearly perceive . . when many witnesses exactly agree in the same testimony . . when the matter it self is of that nature that it may be fully perceived by those who saw it : i. e. if it be a common object of sense . and thus it certainly was as to the person and actions of iesus christ. for he was of the same nature with mankind ; and they had as great evidence that they conversed with iesus christ in the flesh , as we can have that we converse one with another . the miracles of christ were real and visible miracles , they could be no illusions of senses , nor deceits of their eyes ; the man who was born blind and cured by our saviour , was known to have been born blind through all the countrey , and his cure was after as publike as his blindness before , and acknowledged by the greatest enemies of christ at the time of its being done . when christ raised up the dead man at naim , it was before much people , and such persons in probability who were many of them present at his death . but least there might be any suspition as to him , that he was not really dead , the case is plain and beyond all dispute in lazarus , who had been to the knowledge of all persons thereabouts dead four dayes ; here could be no deceit at all when the stone was rowled away , and lazarus came forth in the presence of them all . and yet further the death and passion of our saviour was a plain object of sense done in presence of his greatest adversaries . the souldiers themselves were sufficient witnesses of his being really dead when they came to break his bones , and spared him because they saw he was dead already . at his resurrection the stone was rowled away from the sepulchre and no body found therein , although the sepulchre was guarded by souldiers , and the disciples of christ all so fearful , that they were dispersed up and down in several places . and that it was the same real body which he rose withall , and no aëreall vehicle , appears by thomas his serupulosity and unbelief , who would not believe unless ●e might put his hands into the hole of his sides , and see in his hands the ●rint of the nails ; now our saviour condeseending so far as to satisfie the incredulity of thomas , hath made it thereby evident that the body which our saviour rose from the grave with , was the same individual body which before was crucified and buried in the sepulchre . and we sind all the apostles together upon our saviours appearance to them after his resurrection , so far from being credulous in embracing a phantasm instead of christ , that they susp●cted that it was either a meer phantasm , or an evil spirit which appeared among them ; upon which it is said , they were terrified and affrighted , and supposed they had seen a spirit . which our saviour could not beat them off from , but by appealing to the judgement of their senses , handle me and see , for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have , and afterwards more fully to convince them , he did eat in the midst of them . now the more suspitious and inc●edulous the apostles themselves at first were , the greater evidence is it how far they were from any design of abusing the world in what they after preached unto it , and what strong conviction there was in the thing its self , which was able to satisfie such scrupulous and suspicious persons . . when many witnesses concurr in the same testimony . nothing can disparage more the truth of a testimony , then the counter witness of such who were present at the same actions , but when all the witnesses fully agree not only in the substance , but in all material circumstances of the story , what ground or reason can there be to suspect a forgery or design in it ; especially when the persons cannot by any fears or threatnings be brought to vary from each other in it ! thus it is in our present case , we find no real dissent at all mentioned either as to the birth , miracles , life , death , or resurrection of iesus christ , all the witnesses attest the same things , though writing in different places , and upon different occasions ; no alteration in any circumstance of the story , out of any design of pleasing or gratifying any persons by it . most of our saviours miracles , not only his apostles but the people and his very enemies were witnesses of , whose posterity to this day dare not deny the truth of such strange works which were wrought by him . and for his resurrection , it would be very strange that five hundred persons should all agree in the same thing , and that no torments or death could bring any of them to deny the truth of it , had there not been the greatest certainty in it . there can be no reason to suspect such a testimony which is given by eye-witnesses , but either from questi●ning their knowledge of the things they speak of , or their fi●elity in reporting them . now there is not the least ground to doubt either of these , in reference to those persons who gave testimony to the world concerning the person and actions of our blessed saviour . for first , they were such as were intimately conversant both with the person and actions of iesus christ ; whom he had chosen and trained up for that very end , that they might be sufficiently qualified to acquaint the world with the truth of things concerning himself after his resurrection from the dead . and accordingly they followed him up and down wheresoever he went , they were with him in his solitudes and retirements , and had thereby occasion to observe all his actions , and to take notice of the unspotted innocency of his life . some of his disciples were with him in his transfiguration , others in his agony and bloody sweat , they heard the expressions which came from his mouth ; in all which he discovered a wonderful submission to the will of god , and a great readiness of mind to suffer for the good of the world . now therefore the first thing cannot at all be questioned , their means of knowing the truth of what they spake . neither secondly is there any reas●n to suspect their fidelity in reporting what they knew : for , . the truth of this doctrine wrought so far upon them , that they parted with all their worldly subsistence for the sake of it : although their riches were not great , yet their way of subsistence in the world was necessary ; they left their houses , their wives and children , and all for christ , and that not to gain any higher preferments in this world ( which had they done , it would have rendred their design suspicious to the curious and inquisitive world ) but they let go at least a quiet and easie life , for one most troublesom and dangerous . so that it is not , how much they parted withall , but how freely they did it , and with what chearfulness they underwent disgraces , persecutions , nay death its self for the sake of the gospel . now can it be imagined , that ever men were so prodigal of their ease and lives , as to throw both of them away upon a thing which themselves were not fully assured of the truth of ? it had been the highest folly imaginable , to have deceived themselves in a thing of so great moment to them , as the truth of the doctrine which they preached was ; because all their hopes and happiness depended upon the truth of that doctrine which they preached . and as tertullian observes , non fas est ulli de suâ religione mentiri ; for , saith he , he that sayes he worships any thing be sides what he doth , he denyes what he doth worship , and transfers his worship upon another , and thereby doth not worship that which he thus denyes : besides , what probability is there men should lye for the sake of that religion which tells them that those which do so shall not receive the reward which is promised to those who cordially adhere unto it . nay , they declared themselves to be the most miserable of all persons if their hopes were only in this present life . can we now think that any who had the common reason of men , would part with all the contentments of this world , and expose themselves to continual hazards , and at last undergo death its self for the sake of something which was meerly the fiction of their own brains ? what should make them so sedulous and industrious in preaching such things that they could say necessity was laid upon them , yea wo was unto them if they preached not the gospel , when yet they saw so many woes attending them in the preaching of it , had there not been some more powerful attractive in the beauty and excellency of the doctrine which they preached , then any could be in the ease and tranquillity of this present world ? thus we see the fid●lity of the apostles manifested in such a way as no other witnesses were ever yet willing to hazard theirs . and therefore origen deservedly condemns celsus of a ridiculous impertinency , when he would parallel the relations of herodotus and pindarus concerning aristeus proconnesius with those of the apostles concerning christ : for , faith he , did either of those two venture their lives upon the truth of what they writ concerning him , as the apostles did to attest the truth of what they preached concerning our lord and saviour iesus christ ? . the fidelity of the apostles is evident in their manner of reporting the things which they deliver . for if ever there may be any thing gathered from the manner of expression , or the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 concerning the particular temper and disposition of the person from whom it comes , we may certainly read the greatest fidelity in the apostles from the peculiar manner of their expressing themselves to the world . which they do , . with the greatest impartiality : not declaring only what was glorious and admirable to the world , but what they knew would be accounted foolishness by it . they who had sought only to have been admired for the rare discoveries which they brought to the world , would be sure to conceal any thing which might be accounted ridiculous ; but the apostles fixed themselves most on what was most contemptible in the eyes of the world , and what they were most mocked and derided for , that they delighted most in the preaching of , which was the cross of christ. paul was so much in love with this , which was a stumbling block to the iews and foolishness to the greeks , that he valued the knowledge of nothing else in comparison of the knowledge of christ and him crucified . nay he elsewhere saith , god forbid that i should glory save in the cross of christ. what now should be the reason that they should rejoyce in that most which was most despicable to the world , had not they seen far ●reater truth and excellency in it , then in the most sublime speculations concerning god or the souls of men in the school of plato or any other heathen philosophers ? that all men should be bound in order to their salvation , to believe in one who was crucified at hierusalem , was a strange doctrine to the unbelieving world : but if the apostles had but endeavoured to have suited their doctrine to the school of plato , what rare persons might they have been accounted among the heathen philosophers ! had they only in general terms discoursed of the benignity of the divine nature , and the manifestations of divine goodness in the world , and that , in order to the bringing of the souls of men to a nearer participation of the divine nature , the perfect idea of true goodness , and the express image of the person of god , and the resplendency of his glory had vailed himself in humane nature , and had everywhere scattered such beams of light and goodness , as warmed and invigorated the frozen spirits of men with higher sentiments of god and themselves , and raised them up above the faeculency of this terrestrial matter to breath in a freer air , and converse with more noble objects , and by degrees to fit the souls of men for those more pure illapses of real goodness , which might alwayes satisfie the souls desires , and yet alwayes keep them up till the soul should be sunning its self to all eternity under the immediate beams of light and love : and that after this incarnate deity had spread abroad the wings of his love for a while upon this lower world , till by his gentle heat and incubation he had quickned the more plyable world to some degree of a divine life , he then retreated himself back again into the superiour world , and put off that vail by which he made himself known to those who are here confined to the prisons of their bodies : thus , i say , had the apostles minded applause among the admired philosophers of the heathens , how easie had it been for them to have made some considerable additions to their highest speculations , and have left out any thing which might seem so mean and contemptible as the death of the son of god! but this they were so far from , that the main thing which they preached to the world , was , the vanity of humane wisdom without christ , and the necessity of all mens believing in that iesus who was crucified at hierusalem . the apostles indeed discover very much , infinitely more then ever the most lofty pl — tonist could do , concerning the goodness and love of god to mankind ; but that wherein they manifested the love of god to the world , was that he gave his only begotten son , that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life . and that herein was the love of god manifested , that while we were yet sinners , christ dyed for us . and that this was the greatest truth and worthy of all acceptation , that iesus christ came into the world to save sinners . they never dreamt of any divine goodness which should make men happy without christ : no , it was their design to perswade the world that all the communications of gods goodness to the world were wholly in and through iesus christ , and it is impossible that any should think otherwise , unless plato knew more of the mind of god then our blessed saviour , and plotinus then saint paul. can we think now that the apostles should hazard the reputation of their own wits so much as they did to the world , and be accounted bablers , and fools , and madmen , for preaching the way of salvation to be only by a person crucified between two thieves at hierusalem , had they not been convinced not only of the truth but importance of it , and that it concerned men as much to believe it , as it did to avoid eternal misery ? did saint paul preach ever the less the words of truth and soberness , because he was told to his face that his learning had made him mad ? but if he was besides himself , it was for christ ; and what wonder was it if the love of christ in the apostle should make him willing to lose his reputation for him , seeing christ made himself of no reputation , that he might be in a capacity to do us good ? we see the apostles were not ashamed of the gospel of christ , because they knew it was the power of god to salvation , and therefore neither in their preaching or their writings would they omit any of those passages concerning our saviours death , which might be accounted the most dishonourable to his person . which is certainly as great an evidence of their sidelity as can be expected ; which makes origen say that the disciples of christ writ all things 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with a great deal of candour and love of truth . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; not concealing from the world those passages of the life of christ , which would be accounted most foolish and ridiculous . . with the greatest plainness and simplicity of speech . such whose design is to impose upon the minds of men with some cunningly devised fables , love as much ambiguity as ever apollo did in his most winding oracles , of whom it is said , ambage nexâ delphico mos est dco arcana tegere . servius tells us , that iupiter ammon was therefore pictured with rams-horns , because his answers had as many turnings and windings as they had . but the horns which moses was wont to be pictured with , did only note light and perspicuity ( from the ambiguity of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which notes the sending forth of rayes of light like a horn ) and yet moses himself was vailed , in comparison of the openness and plainness of speech which was in the apostles . impostors cast a mist of many dark and cloudy words before them , but when they are once brought into the open light , their vizard falls off , and their deformity appears . such persons delight in soaring quite out of the apprehensions of those who follow them , and never think themselves better recompenced for their pains , then when they are most admired and least understood . but never was christianity more dishonoured , then when men brought it from its native simplicity and plainness , into a company of cloudy and insignificant expressions , which are so far from making men better understand the truth of it , that it was certainly the devils design by such obscure terms to make way for a mysterie to be advanced ( but it was of iniquity ) and soon after , we see the effect of it in another oracle set up at rome instead of delphos , and all the pretence of it , was the obscurity supposed in scripture . what! darkness come by the rising of the sun ! or is the sun at last grown so beggarly , that he is fain to borrow light of the earth ? must the s●ripture be beholding to the church for its clearness , and christ himsel● not speak intelligibly , unless the pop● be his interpreter ? did christ reveal to the world the way to salvation , and yet leave men to se●k which was it , till a guide never heard of in the scripture come to direct them in the way to it ? what strange witnesses were the apostles , if they did no● speak the truth with plainness ? how had men been to s●●k as ●o the truth of christianity , if the apostles had not declared the d●ctrine of the gospel with all evidence and perspicuity ? whom must we believe in this case , the apostles or the roman oracle ? the apostles they tell us they speak with all plainness of speech and for that end purposely lay aside all exc●llency of words and humane wisdom , that men might not be to seek for their m●aning in a matter of so great moment ; that the gospel was hid to none but such as are lost , and whose eyes are blinded by the god of this world ; that the doctrin● revealed by them is a light to direct us in our way to heaven , and a rule to walk by ; and it is a strange property of light to be obscure , and of a rule to be crooked . but it is not only evident from the apostles own affirmations , that they laid aside all affected obscurity , ambiguous expressions , and philosophical terms , whereby the world might have been to seek for what they were to believe , but it is likewise clear from the very nature of the doctrine they preached , and the design of their preaching of it . what need rhetorick in plain truths ? or affected phrases in giving evidence ? how incongruous would obscure expressions have been to the design of saving souls by the foolishness of preaching ? for if they had industriously spoken in their preaching , above the capacities of those they spake to , they could never have converted a soul without a miracle ; for the ordinary way of conversion must be by the understanding ; and how could that work upon the understanding , which was so much above it ? but saith the apostle , we preach not our selves , but christ iesus the lord , and our selves your servants for iesus sake . if they had sought themselves or their own credit and reputation , there might have been some reason that they should have used the way of the sophists among the greeks , and by declamatory speeches to have inhanceed their esteem among the v●lgar . but the apostles disowned and rejected all these vulgar artifices of mean and low-spirited men ; they laid aside all those enticing words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the way of the heathen sophists , and declared the t●stimony of god with spiritual evidence ; they handled not the word of god deceitfully , but by manifestation of the truth , commended themselves to every mans cons●ience in the sight of god : now what could be so suiteable to such a design , as the greatest plainness and faithfulness in what they spake ? we find in the testimony of the apostles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as origen speaks , nothing that is spurious or counterfeit , nothing savouring of the cunning craftiness of such as lie in wait to deceive ; and saith he , it is impossible to think that men never bred up in the sophistry of the gre●ks , nor experienced in the rhetorical insinuations used among them , could ever be able so suddenly to perswade the world to embrace that which had been a figment of their own brains . the truth is , the apostles speak like men very confident of the truth of what they speak , and not like such who were fain to fetch in the help of all their topicks , to find out some probable arguments to make men believe that which it is probable they did not believe themselves , which was most commonly the case of the great orators among the heathens . we find no pedantick flourishes , no slattering insinuations , no affected cadencyes , no such great care of the rising and falling of words in the several sentences , which make up so great a part of that which was accounted eloquence in the apostles times . these things were too mean a prey for the spirits of the apostles to quarry upon ; every thing in them was grave and serious , every word had its due weight , every sentence brim-full of spiritual matter , their whole discourse most becoming the majesty and authority of that spirit which they spake by . and therein was seen a great part of the infinite wisdom of god in the choice he made of the persons who were to propagate the doctrine of christ in the world , that they were not such who by reason of their great repute and fame in the world , might easily draw whole multitudes to imbrace their dictates , but ( that there might not be the least foundation for an implicit faith ) they were of so mean rank and condition in the world , that in all probability their names had never been hard of , had not their doctrine made them famous . to this purpose origen excellently speaks , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . i am of opinion , saith he , that iesus did purposely make use of such preachers of his doctrine , that there might be no place for suspicion that they came instructed with the arts of sophistry ; but that it be clearly manifest to all that would consider it , that there was nothing of design in those who discovered so much simplicity in their writings , and that they had a more divine power which was more efficacious then the greatest volubility of expressions , or ornaments of speech , or the artifices which were used in the grecian compositions . . the apostles delivered their doctrine with the greatest openness and freedom of spirit ; they did not give out one thing to the world , and another to their private disciples ; but with great freedom and boldness declared their doctrine in the most publick places , and before their greatest enemies . they knew they were looked on as deceivers by the world , but yet they knew themselves to be true , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . this is the usual requital good men have from the world , that they are looked on as the greatest deceivers of it ; if it be so with others , they have much less cause to wonder at it , when even he , who by one prophet is stiled the desire of nations , is by another said to be despised and rejected of men ; and when christ was in the world he was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the deceiver ; no wonder , then if his disciples were accounted such , although they manifested their veracity by their open carriage and free speaking to the faces of their greatest adversaries . the apostles neither feared the iews skill in their law , nor the wisdom and subtilty of the greeks : saint paul preacheth christ openly among the iews in their synagogues , and among the athenians he encounters the epicureans and stoicks , and preacheth to them iesus and the resurrection . if the apostles had any thing of deceivers in them , as to the things they related concerning christ , they would not certainly have spoken with so much confidence concerning christ in the presence of those who had been his murderers , but we see they appealed to themselves , as to the miracles which he had wrought among them , and for his resurrection they were ready to lay down their lives in giving testimony to the truth of it . that his body was gone , was evident ; that the apostles should take it away was impossible , considering what a guard of souldiers they had set upon it , and how timerous and fearful the apostles were , that they fled upon christs being apprehended . now what could it be , could make such fearful persons afterwards so couragious and resolute as they were , had there not been some more then ordinary power to convince and encourage them ? . the apostles deliver their testimony with the greatest particularity as to all circumstances . they do not change or alter any of them upon different examinations before several persons ; they all agree in the greatest constancy to themselves and uniformity with each other . as to matters of indifferency , we find the apostles very yielding and condescending , but as to any thing which concerned their testimony , most constant and resolved . had the gospel been some cunningly contrived fancy , it had been impossible but so many different persons , in such different places , and under such different conditions , would have varyed as to some material circumstance of it : or else they would have been so wise as to have delivered it in general terms , without insisting much on such particular circumstances , which if they had been false , might have been very easily disproved : but with what particular enumeration of circumstances do the apostles preach christ to the world ? peter tells the iews that it was iesus of nazareth whom he preached ; and lest they should think it was not the same person who rose again , with great boldness and freedom of spirit he saith to them , therefore let all the house of israel know assuredly that god hath made that same iesus whom ye have crucified , both lord and christ. yea that same individual person who was conversant in the world , and dyed upon the cross , is now become a prince and saviour to give repentance to israel and remission of sins . if there had been any ground of suspition as to these things , who had been so able to disprove them , or so ready to do it , as those persons who had crucified him ? for we cannot conceive but those who had a hand in his death , would endeavour by all possible means to disprove his resurrection from the dead . for what a case were they like to be in , if those things which the apostles so confidently preached were true ? if christ had all power now in his hands , and there were salvation in no other name , but only in his whom they had crucified , they were like to be in a most desperate condition ; therefore if any men can be supposed inquisitive after the truth of these circumstances , no doubt these were ; and if they could have found the least flaw in their testimony , the world would soon have ringed of it ; and the iews who were then so much dispersed abroad , would have divulged it into all parts , the apostles would have been told of it as they preached christ in the synagogues . and can we in any reason think , but those iews who persecuted paul as he preached in the synagogues of asia , and afterwards impeached him so openly at ierusalem , would there enquire into all the circumstances concerning christ , and all the other iews would write to their friends at ierusalem to be fully informed of those strange things which were told them openly in all places in their synagogues by men of their own nation and language , concerning one iesus who was crucified and rose again from the dead . had there been now any so much as plausible pretext that any of these circumstances were not true , can we think but that a people so unmeasureably given to their own wayes and traditions , would in all places have vented any thing that might have tended to the disparagement of christ and his apostles ? but we see malice its self could not find any flaw in the apostles testimony ; for if it had , we should certainly have heard of it , either from the iews , or from the great opposers of christianity among the heathens , who pretended to be curious and inquisitive persons , such as celsus , iulian , hierocles , and porphyrie were . what reason can we have then in the least to suspect such a testimony which passed so uncontrouled in that time when it was alone capable of being disproved , and mens interest and design would put them so much upon it ? the strength of which will appear from the next proposition , which is , no testimony ought to be taken against a matter of fact thus attested , but from such persons who had greater knowledge of the things attested , and manifest greater fidelity in reporting them . it is easie to make it appear , that supposing any persons at that time had contradicted the testimony of the apostles concerning our saviour , yet there had been no reason in the world to have hearkned to their testimony in opposition to that of the apostles ; and that on these accounts . . the apostles witnessed the affirmative , which is more capable of being attested then any negative can be . . the apostles were more conversant with christ then any other persons were , because they were chosen for that very end by him to be constantly with him ; could any therefore be more capable of knowing the truth of all particulars concerning christ then these were ? had there been any ground of suspicion concerning the design of christ , why could not the iews prevail with iudas to discover it as well as to betray his person ? iudas had done but a good work if christ had been such an impostor as the iews blasphemously said he was ; what made iudas then so little satisfied with his work , that he grew weary of his life upon it , and threw himself away in the most horrid despair ? no person certainly had been so fit to have been produced as a witness against christ , as iudas who had been so long with him , and had heard his speeches and observed his miracles ; but he had not patience enough to stay after that horrid fact to be a witness against him ; nay he was the greatest witness at that time for him , when he who had betrayed him came to the sanhedrim when consulting about his death , and told them that he had sinned in betraying innocent blood . what possible evidence could have been given more in behalf of our saviour then that was ? when a person so covetous as to betray his master for thirty pieces of silver , was so weary of his bargain that he comes and throws back the money , and declares the person innocent whom he had betrayed ? and this person too was such a one as knew our saviour far better then any of the witnesses whom afterwards they suborned against him , who yet contradicted each other , and at last could produce nothing which in the judgement of the heathen governour could make him judge christ worthy of death . . the apostles were freer from design then any counter-witness at that time could be ; we have already proved the apostles could not possibly have any other motive to affirm what they did but full conviction of the truth of what they spake ; but now if any among the iews at that time had asserted any thing contrary to the apostles , we have a clear account of it , and what motive might induce them to it ; viz. the preserving of their honour and reputation with the people , the upholding their traditions , besides their open and declared enmity against christ without any sufficient reason at all for it : now who would believe the testimony of the scribes and pharisees who had so great authority among the people , which they were like to lose , if christs doctrine were true , before that of the apostles who parted with all for the sake of christ , and ventured themselves wholly upon the truth of our saviours doctrine ? . none ever did so much to attest the negative , as the apostles did to prove their fidelity as to the affirmative . had sufficient counter-witness been timely produced , we cannot think the apostles would have run so many continual hazards in preaching the things which related to the person and actions of christ. did ever any lay down their lives to undeceive the world if the apostles were guilty of abusing it ? . the number of such persons had been inconsiderable in comparison of those who were so fully perswaded of the truth of those things which concern our saviour ; who were all ready ( as most of them did ) to seal the truth of them with their lives . whence should so many men grow so suddenly confident of the truth of such things which were contrary to their former perswasions , interest ; education , had they not been delivered in such a way , that they were assured of the undoubted truth of them ? which brings me to the last proposition , which is , matters of fact being first believed on the account of eye-witnesses , and received with an universal and uncontrouled assent by all such persons who have thought themselves concerned in knowing the truth of them , do yeild a sufficient foundation for a firm assent to be built upon . i take it for granted that there is sufficient foundation for a firm assent , where there can be no reason given to question the evidence ; which that there is not in this present case will appear from these following considerations . . that the multitudes of those persons who did believe these things , had liberty and opportunity to be satisfied of the truth of them before they believed them . therefore no reason or motive can be assigned , on which they should be induced to believe these things , but the undoubted evidence of truth which went along with them . i confess in mahumetisme a very great number of persons have for some centuries of years continued in the belief of the doctrine of mahomet ; but then withall there is a sufficient account to be given of that , viz. the power of the sword which keeps them in aw , and strictly forbids all the followers of mahomet to dispute their religion at all , or compare it with any other . therefore i can no more wonder at this , then i do to see so great a part of the world under the tyranny of the gre●t turk : neither on the other side do i wonder that such a multitude of those professing christianity should together with it , believe a great number of erroneous doctrines , and live in the practice of many gross superstitions , because i consider what a strange prevalency education hath upon softer spirits and more easie intellectuals , and what an aw an inquisition bears upon timerous and irresolved persons . but now when a great multitude of persons sober and inquisitive shall contrary to the principles of their education , and without fear of any humane force , ( which they beforehand see will persecute them ) and after diligent enquiry made into the grounds on which they believe , for sake all their former perswasions , and resolvedly adhere to the truth of the doctrine propounded to them , though it cost them their lives ; if this give us not reason to think this doctrine true , we must believe mankind to be the most miserable unhappy creatures in the world ; that will with so much resolution part with all advantages of this life for the sake of one to come , if that be not undoubtedly certain , and the doctrine proposing it infallibly true . it is an observable circumstance in the propagation of christian religion , that though god made choice at first of persons generally of mean rank and condition in the world to be preachers of the gospel , god thereby making it appear that our faith did not stand in the wisdom of men , but in the power of god , and therefore chose the weak things of the world to confound the strong ; yet soon af●er the gospel was preached abroad in the world , we finde persons of great place and reputation , of great parts and abilities engaged in the profession of the christian faith . in the history of the acts we read of sergius a proconsul , of dionysius the areopagite converted to the faith , and in the following ages of the church many persons of great esteem for their excellent learning and abilities ; such was iustin martyr , one who before he became a christian , was conversant with all sects of philosophers , stoicks , peripateticks , pythagoreans , and at last was a professed platonist till he was converted from plato to christ , and then found that true which he speaks of in his dialogue with trypho , that after all his enquiries into philosophy , speaking of the doctrine of christ , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i found this at last to be the only sure and profitable philosophy . and when trypho after derides him as a man of very easie faith , who would leave the doctrine of plato for that of christ , ( for it seems by him the iews then had a more favourable opinion of the state of platonists then christians ) iustin is so far from being moved with such reproaches , that he tells him he would undertake to demonstrate to him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that the christians did not give credit to empty fables , and unprovable assertions , but to such a doctrine as was full of a divine spirit and power , and flourished with grace : the proving of which is the subject of that discourse . at alexandria we meet with a succession of excellent persons , all which were not only embracers themselves , but defenders of the christian faith ; for setting aside there abilius , iustus , cerdo , eumenes , marcus , celadion , agrippinus , iulianus , demetrius and others who flourished about the second century , i shall only fix on those persons who were famous enquirers after truth and noted for excellency in heathen learning ; yet these persons after all their inquiries found nothing to fix on but the christian faith , and valued no other discovery of truth in comparison with that . such was pantaenus , who as eusebius tells us , was an excellent stoick before he became a christian , and was after so eminent a one , that in imitation of the apostles he wen● into india to convert the inhabitants to the christian faith , and at his return was made rector of the school at alexandria ; which as the same author tells us , was much frequented by such who were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , well skild in humane as well as divine learning . how excellent pantaenus was in humane learning may appear in that origen and hierome both make his example their plea for the studying of it . after him succeeded clemens alexandrinus , pantaenus his schollar , a person of great depth of learning and exquisitly skild in all heathen antiquities , as appears by his remaining writings . the learning of origen is sufficiently known , which was in such great reputation in his own time , that not only christians but philosophers flocked to his lectures at alexandria as eusebius tells us , wherein he read the mathematicks , and other parts of philosophy as well as the scriptures ; and the same author informs us that the philosophers did dedicate their books to him , and sometimes chose him as arbitrator between them in matters of dispute ; and porphyrie himself in his books against the christians vouchsafed a high encomium of origen for his excellent learning . in origens time heraclas a presbyter of alexandria for five years together frequented the schools of the philosophers , and put on the philosophick pallium , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and was very conversant in the books of the grecian learning . besides these we read of pierius and achillas two presbyters of alexandria who were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as nicephorus callistus speaks , persons well skild in the grecian learning and philosophy . if from alexandria we go to caesarea , there we not only meet with a school of learning among the christians , but with persons very eminent in all kinds of learning ; such were the famous pamphilus and eusebius so great an admirer of him , that ever since he is called eusebius pamphili . at antioch was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as nicephorus speaks , a person versed in all kind of ingenuous literature . anatclius bishop of laodicea one versed in geometry , astronomy , and all kind of philosophy as well as in the doctrine of christ. thus we see how in those early dayes of the greek church what excellent persons many of those were who were zealous professors of christianity ; and concerning those of the latin church , i shall only mention that speech of st. austin who was himself an instance of the same nature and a star of the first magnitude among them . nonne aspicimus quanto auro & argento & v●ste s●ffarcinatus exierit de aegypto cyprian●s doctor suavissimus & martyr beatissimus ? quanto lactantius ? quanto victorinus , optatus , hilarius ? ut de vivis taceam : quanto innumerabiles graeci ? quod prior ipse fidelissimus dei servus moses fecerat , de quo scriptum est , quod eruditus fuerit omni sapientia aegyptiorum . to whose catalogue of learned persons , among the latin christians tertullian , arnobius and several others may be deservedly added . but as st. austin there well observes , though the israclites went rich out of aegypt , yet it was their eating the passover which saved them from destruction ; so though these were accomplished with those perfections and riches of the soul , the ornaments of learning , yet it was their eating the true passover which was christ , by their adhering to his doctrine , was that which would be of more advantage to them , then all their accomplishments would be . now then since in the first ages of the christian church , we find not only innumerable multitudes of persons of great integrity and sobriety in their lives embracing the doctrine of christ , but so many persons that were curious enquirers after the truth of things , we can certainly have no reason to distrust such a testimony which was received in so unanimous a manner by persons as able to judge of the truth of things , and as fearful of being deceived in reference to them as any now in the world can be . . as this testimony was received by persons in●uisitive after the truth of things , so the doctrine conveyed by it was a matter of the highest moment in the world : and therefore we cannot conceive but persons ordinarily inquisitive about other things would be more then ordinarily so about this , because their eternal welfare and happiness did depend upon it . all persons that are truly religious , must at least be allowed to be persons very inquisitive after the state and condition of their souls when they shall be dislodged from their bodyes . and if we do but grant this , can we in any reason think that such a multitude of persons in so many ages should continue venturing their souls upon a testimony which they had no assurance of the truth of ? and that none of all these persons though men otherwise rational and judicious , should be able to discover the falsity of that doctrine they went upon , if at least any upon consideration of it can imagine it to be so ? it is not reconcileable with the general presumption of humane nature concerning divine providence and the care god takes of the welfare of men , to suffer so many persons who sincerely desire to serve god in the way which is most pleasing to him , to go on in such a continual delusion , and never have it at all discovered to them . if all then who have believed the doctrine of christ to be the only way to salvation have been deceived , either we must deny altogether a divine providence , or say the devil hath more power to deceive men then god to direct them , which is worse then the former , or else assert that there are no such things at all as either god or devils , but that all things come to pass by chance and fortune ; and if so , it is still more inexplicable why such multitudes of rational and serious men , and the most inquisitive part of the world as to such things should all be so possessed with the truth and certainty of these things ; and the more profane , wicked , and ignorant any persons are , the more prone they are to mock and deride them . if such men then see more into truth and reason then the sober and judicious part of mankind , let us bid adieu to humanity and adore the brutes , since we admire their judgement most who come the nearest to them . . the multitude of these persons thus consenting in this testimony , could have no other engagement to this consent , but only their firm perswasion of the truth of the doctrine conveyed by it ; because those who unanimously agree in this thing are such persons whose other designs and interests in this world , differ as much as any mens do . if it had been only a consent of iews , there might have been some probable pretence to have suspected a matter of interest in it ; but as to this thing , we find the iews divided among themselves about it ; and the stiffest denyers of the truth of it , do yet inviolably preserve those sacred records among them , from which the truth of the doctrine of christ may be undoubtedly proved . had the christian religion been enforced upon the world by the roman emperours at the time of its first promulgation , there would have been some suspicion of particular design in it ; but it came with no other strength but the evidence of its own truth ; yet it found sudden and strange entertainment among persons of all nations and degrees of men . in a short time it had eaten into the heart of the roman empire , and made so large a spread therein , that it made tertullian say , hesterni sumus , & vestra omnia implevimus , urbes , insulas , castella , municipia , conciliabula , castraipsa , tribus , decurias , palatium , senatum , forum ; sola vobis relinquimus templa . we have but newly appeared , saith he , & yet we have filled all places with our company but only your temples ; and before speaking of the heathens , obsessam vociferantur civitatem , in agris , in castellis , in insulis christianos , omnem sexum , aetatem , conditionem , etiam dignitatem transgredi ad hoc nomen quasi detrimento moerent . all sorts and conditions of men in all places , were suddenly become christians . what common tye could there be now to unite all these persons together , if we set aside the undoubted truth and certainty of the doctrine of christ which was first preached to them by such who were eye-witnesses of christs actions , and had left sacred records behind them , containing the substance of the doctrine of christ and those admirable instructions which were their only certain guides in the way to heaven ? . because many persons do joyn in this consent with true christians , who yet could heartily with that the doctrine of christianity were not true . such are all those persons who are sensual in their lives , and walk not according to the rules of the gospel , yet dare not question or deny the truth of it . such who could heartily wish there were no future state , nor judgement to come , that they might indulge themselves in this world without fear of another ; yet their consciences are so far convinced of , and awed by the truth of these things , that they raise many perplexities and anxieties in their minds which they would most willingly be rid of ; which they can never throughly be , till instead of having the name of christians , they come to live the life of christians , and become experimentally acquainted with the truth and power of religion . and withall we find that the more men have been acquainted with the practice of christianity , the greater evidence they have had of the truth of it , and been more fully and rationally perswaded of it . to such i grant there are such powerful evidences of the truth of the doctrine of christ by the effectual workings of the spirit of god upon their souls , that all other arguments , as to their own satisfaction , may fall short of these . as to which , those verses of the poet dante 's , rendred into latine by f. s. are very pertinent and significant ; for when he had introduced the apostle peter asking him what it was which his faith was founded on , he answers , deinde exivit ex luce profundâ quae illic splendebat pretiosa gemma super quam omnis virtus fundatur . i. e. that god was pleased by immediate revelation of himself , to discover that divine truth to the world whereon our faith doth stand as on its sure foundation ; but when the apostle goes on to enquire how he knew this came at first from god , his answer to that is , larga pluvia spiritûs sancti , quae est diffusa super veteres & super novas membranas , est syllogismus ille qui eam mihi conclusit ad●ò acutè , ut prae illâ demonstratione omnis demonstratio alia mihi videatur obtusa . i. e. that the spirit of god doth so fully discover its self both in the old and new testament , that all other arguments are but dull and heavy if compared with this . it is true they are so to a truly inlightened conscience which discovers so much beauty and glory in the scriptures , that they ravish the soul , although it be unable to give so full an account of this unto others who want the eyes to see that beauty with , which a heart truly gracious hath . we see ordinarily in the world , that the attraction of beauty is an unaccountable thing ; and one may discern that which ravisheth him , which another looks on as mean and ordinary ; and why may it not be much more thus in divine objects which want spiritual eyes to discover them ? therefore i grant that good men enjoy that satisfaction to their own consciences , as to the truth of the doctrine of christ , which others cannot attain to ; but yet i say , that such do likewise see the most strong , rational , and convincing evidence which doth induce them to believe ; which evidence is then most convincing , when it is seconded by the peculiar energy of the spirit of god upon the souls of true believers . but yet we see that the power and force of the truth of these things may be so great , even upon such minds which are not yet moulded into the fashion of true goodness , that it may awe with its light and clearness , where it doth not soften and alter by its heat and influence . now whence can it be that such convictions should stick so fast in the minds of those who would fain pull out those pier●ing arrows , but that there is a greater power in them then they are mnsters of , and they cannot stand against the force whereby they come upon them ; nor find any salve to cure the wounds which are made within them , but by those weapons which were the causes of them ? and therefore when wicked persons under conflicts of conscience , cannot ease themselves by direct atheism , or finding reasons to cast off such convictions by discerning any invalidity in the testimony whereon the truth of these things depends , it is a certain argument that there is abundant truth in that testimony , when men would fain perswade themselves to believe the contrary , and yet cannot . . the truth of this consent appears , from the unanimity of it among those persons who have yet strangely differed from each other in many controversies in religion . we see thereby this unanimity is no forced or designed thing , because we see the persons agreeing in this , do very much disagree from each other in other things . and the same grounds and reasons whereon they disagree as to other things , would have held as to these too , were there not greater evidence of the certainty of these things then of those they fall out about . it hath not yet become a question among those who differ so much about the sense of scripture , whether the scripture its self be the word of god , although the very accounts on which we are to believe it to be so , hath been the subject of no mean controversies . all the divided parts of the christian world do yet fully agree in the matters of fact , viz. that there was such a person as iesus christ , and that he did many great miracles , that he dyed on the cross at jerusalem , and rose again from the dead ; now these contain the great foundations of christian faith ; and therefore the multitude of other controversies in the world ought to be so far from weakning our faith , as to the truth of the doctrine of christ ( which men of weak judgements and atheistical spirits pre●end ) that it ought to be a strong confirmation of it , when we see persons which so peevishly quarrel with each other about some inferiour and less weighty parts of religion , do yet unanimously consent in the principal foundations of christian faith , and such whereon the necessity of faith and obedience , as the way to salvation , doth more immediately depend . and this may be one great reason why the infinitely wise god may suffer such lamentable contentions and divisions to be in the christian world , that thereby inquisitive persons may see that if religion had been a meer design of some few politick persons , the quarrelsom world ( where it is not held in by force ) would never have consented so long in the owning such common principles which all the other controversies are built upon . and although it be continually seen that in divided parties , one is apt to run from any thing which is received by the other , and men generally think they can never run far enough from them whose errours they have discovered , that yet this principle hath not carryed any considerable party of the christian world ( out of their indignation against those great corruptions which have crept into the world under a pretence of religion ) to the disowning the foundation of christian faith , must be ●artly imputed to the signal hand of divine providence , and partly to those strong ●vidences which there are of the truth of that testimony which conveyes to u● the foundations of christian faith. thus we see now , how great and uncontrouled this consent is , as to the matters of fact delivered down from the eye-witnesses of them , concerning the actions and miracles of our blessed saviour ( which are contained in the scriptures as authentical records of them ) and what a sure foundation there is for a firm assent to the truth of the things from so universal and uninterrupted a tradition . thus far we have now manifested the necessity of the miracles of christ , in order to the propagation of christianity in the world , from the consideration of the persons who were to propagate it in the world ; the next thing we are to consid●r , is , the admirable success which the gospel met with in the world upon its being preached to it : of wh●ch no rational account can be given , unless the actions and miracles of our saviour were most undoubtedly true . that the gospel of christ had very strange and wonderful success upon its first preaching , hath been partly discovered already , and is withall so plain from the long continuance of it in these european parts , that none any wayes conversant in the history of former ages , can have any ground to question it . but that this strange and admirable success of the doctrine of christ should be an evidence of the truth of it , and the miracles wrought in confirmation of it , will appear from these two considerations . . that the doctrine its self was so directly contrary to the general inclinations of the world . . that the propagation of it was so much opposed by all worldly power . . that the doctrine its self was so opposite to the general inclinations of the world . the doctrine may be considered either as to its credenda , or matters of faith , or as to its agenda , or matters of life and practice ; both these were contrary to the inclinations of the world ; the former seemed hard and incredible , the latter harsh and impossible . . the matters of faith which were to be believed by the world , were not such things which we may imagine the vulgar sort of men would be very forward to run after , nor very greedy to imbrace . . because contrary to the principles of their education , and the religion they were brought up in the generality of mankind is very tenacious of those principles and prejudices which are sucked in in the time of infancy . there are some religions one would think it were impossible that any rational men should believe them , but only on this account because they are bred up under them . it is a very great advantage any religion hath against another , that it comes to speak first , and thereby insinuates such an apprehension of its self to the mind , that it is very hard removing it afterwards . the understanding seems to be of the nature of those things which are communis juris , and therefore primi sunt possidentis ; when an opinion hath once got possession of the mind , it usually keeps out whatever comes to disturb it . now we cannot otherwise conceive but all those persons who had been bred up under paganism and the most gross idolatry , must needs have a very potent prejudice against such a doctrine which was wholly irreconcileable with that religion which they had been devoted to . now the stronger the prejudice is which is conveyed into mens minds by the force of education , the greater strength and power must there needs be in the gospel of christ , which did so easily demolish these strong holds , and captivate the understandings of men to the obedience of christ. to which purpose arnobius excellently speaks in these words to the heathens ; sed non creditis gesta haec . sed qui ea conspicati sunt fieri & sub oculis suis viderunt agi , testes optimi certissimique auctores , & crediderunt haec ipsi , & credenda posteris nobis haud exilibus cum approbationibus tradiderunt . quinam isti fortasse quaeritis ? gentes , populi , nationes , & incredulum illud genus humanum . quod nisi aperta res esset , & luce ipsa quemadmodum dicitur clarior , nunquam rebus hujusmodi credulitatis suae commodarent assensum . an nunquid dicemus illius temporis homines usque adeò fuisse vanos , mendaces , stolidos , brutos , ut quae nunquam viderant vidisse se fingerent ? & quae facta omninò non erant falsis proderent testimoniis aut puerili assertione sirmarent ? cumque possent vobiscum & unanimiter vivere , & inoffensas ducere conjunctiones , gratuita susciperent odia & execrabili haberentur in nomine ? quod si falsa ut dicit is historia illa rerum est , unde tam brevi tempore totus mundus ista religione complet us est ? aut in unam coire qui potuërunt mentem gentes regionibus dissi●●ae , ventis coelique convexionibus dimotae ? asseverationibus illectae sunt nudis , inductae in spes cassas , & in pericula capitis immittere se sponte temeraria desperatione voluërunt , cum nihil tale vidissent quod eas in hos cult us novitatis suae possit excitare miraculo . imo quia haec omnia ab ipso cernebant geri & ab ejus praeconibus qui per orbem totum missi beneficia patris & munera sanandis animis hominibusque portabant , veritatis ipsius vi victae , & dedërunt se deo , nec in magnis posuëre despendiis membra vobis projicere , & viscera sua lanianda praebere . the substance of whose discourse is , that it is impossible to suppose so many persons of so many nations to be so far besotted and infatuated , as not only to believe a religion to be true which was contrary to that they were educated in , but to venture their lives as well as estates upon it , had it not been discovered to them in a most certain and infallible way by such who had been eye-witnesses of the actions and miracles of christ and his apostles . and as he elsewhere speaks , vel haec saltem fidem vobis faciant argumenta credendi quod jam peromnes terras in tam brevi tempore & parvo immensi nominis hujus sacramenta diffusa sunt ; quod nulla jam natio est tam barbari moris , & mansuetudinem nesciens , quae non ejus amore versa molliverit asperitatem suam , & in placidos sensus assumpt â tranquillitate migraverit ; quod tam magnis ingeniis praediti oratores , grammatici , rhetores , consulti juris ac medici , philosophiae etiam secreta rimantes , magisteria haec expetunt , spretis quibus paulò ante sidebant , &c. will not this perswade the world what firm foundations the faith of christans stands on , when in so short a time it is spread over all parts of the world ? that by it the most inhumane and barbarous nations are softned into more then civility ? that men of the greatest wits and parts , orators , grammarians , rhetoricians , lawyers , physitians , philosophers , who not ? have for saken then former sentiments , and adhered to the doctrine of christ. now , i say , if the power of education be so strong upon the minds of men to perswade them of the truth of the religion they are bred up under ( which atheistically disposed persons make so much advantage of ) this is so far from weakning the truth of christianity , that it proves a great confirmation of it , because it obtained so much upon its first preaching in the world , notwithstanding the highest prejudices from education were against it . if then men be so prone to believe that to be most true which they have been educated under , it must argue a more then ordinary evidence and power in that religion which unsettles so much the principles of education , as to make men not only question the truth of them but to renounce them , and embrace a religion contrary to them . especially when we withall consider what strong-holds these principles of education were backed with among the heathens , when the doctrine of christ was first divulged among them , i. e. what plausible pretences they had of continuing in the religion which they were brought up in , and why they should not exchange it for christianity ; and those were . . the pretended antiquity of their religion above the christian ; the main thing pleaded against the christians was divortium ab institutis majorum , that they thought themselves wiser then their fore-fathers ; and symmachus , libanius and others plead this most in behalf of paganisme ; servanda est tot seculis fides , & sequendi sunt nobis parentes qui secuti sunt feliciter suos ; their religion pleaded prescription against any other , and they were resolved to sollow the steps of their ancestors wherein they thought themselves happy and secure . caecilius in minutius felix first argues much against dogmatizing in religion , but withall sayes it most becomes a lover of truth , majorum excipere disciplinam , religiones tradit as colere , deos quos à parentibus ante imbutus es timere ; nec de numinibus ferre sententiam sed prioribus credere . so arnobius tells us the main thing objected against the christians was novellam esse religionem nostram , & ante dies natam propemodum paucos , n●que vos potuisse antiquam & patriam linquere , & in barbaros ritus peregrinosque traduci . and cotta in tully long before , laid this down as the main principle of pagan religion , majoribus nostris etiam nulla ratione reddita credere , to believe the tradition of our fathers although there be no evidence in reason for it : and after he hath discovered the vanity of the stoical arguments about religion , concludes with this as the only thing he resolved his religion into , mihi unum satis erit , majores nostros it a tradidisse , it is enough for me that it comes by tradition from our fore-fathers . lactantius fully sets forth the manner of pleading used by the heathens against the christians in the point of antiquity . hae sunt religiones , quas sibi à majoribus suis traditas , pertinacissime tueri ac defendere persiverant ; nec considerant quales sint , sed ex hoc probat as atque veras esse confidunt , quod eas veteres tradider●nt ; tantaque est auctoritas vetustatis , ut inquircre in eam scelus esse dicatur . the english is , they accounted tradition infallible , and knew no other way whereby to find the truth of religion but by its conveyance from their fore-fathers . how like herein do they speak to those who contend for the corruptions crept into the christian church ? who make use of the same pretences for them ; viz. that they were delivered down from the fathers ; tantaque est auctoritas vetustatis , ut inquirere in eam scelus esse dicatur ; who are we who will see further then antiquity ? but it is no wonder if antiquity be accompanied with dimness of sight ; and so it was undoubtedly as to the pagan world , and as to the christian too , when such a mixture of heathenism came into it . and the very same arguments by which the pleaders for christianity did justifie the truth of their religion , notwithstanding this pretended antiquity , will with equal force hold for a reformation of such inveterate abuses which under a pretence of antiquity have crept into the christian church . nullus pudor est ad meliora transire , saith ambrose in his answer to symmachus , what shame is it to grow better ? quid facies ? saith lactantius , majores ne potius an rationem sequeris ? sirationem mavis , discedere te necesse est ab institutis & auctoritate majorum : quoniam id solum rectum est , quod ratio praescribit . sin autem ●ietas majores sequi suadet : sateris igitur & stultos illos esse qui excogitatis contra rationem religionibus servierint ; & te ineptum qui id colas quod falsum esse conviceris . where reason and meer authority of forefathers stand in competition , he is more a child then a man that knows not on which side to give his suffrage . but with the greatest strength and clearest reason arnobius speaks in this case . itaque cum nobis intenditis aversionem à religione priorum , causam convenit ut inspiciat is , non sactum , nec quid reliquerimus opponere , sed secuti quid simus potissimum contueri . when you charge us , saith he , that we are revolted from the religion of our forefathers , you ought not presently to condemn the fact but to examine the reasons of it ; neither ought you so much to look at what we have left , as what it is we have embraced . nam simutare sententiam culpa est ulla vel crimen , & i veteribus institutis in alias res novas voluntatesque migrare , criminatio ista & vos spectat , qui totics vitam consuetudinem que mutastis ; qui in mores alios , atque alios ritus priorum condemnatione transistis . if meer departing from the religion of our ancestors be the great sault , all those who own themselves to be christians , were themselves guilty of it when they revolted from heathenism . if it be here said that the case is different , because there was sufficient reason for it , which there is not as to the corruptions of the christian church ; if so , then all the dispute is taken off from the matter of fact , or the revolt , to the causes inducing to it ; and if the protestant be not able as to the causes of our separation from rome to manifest that they were sufficient , let him then be triumphed over by the romanist , and not before . i affert then and that with much assurance of mind , that the principles of the reformation are justifiable upon the same grounds of reason , which the embracing christianity was , when men of heathens became christians ; and that the arguments made use of by the romanists against our separation from them , are such as would have justified a pagan philosopher in not embracing christianity . for if it be unlawful for any party of men to divide from others in a matter of religion which pretends antiquity and universality , it had been unlawful for a philosopher to have deserted paganism , as well as for a protest●nt to depart from rome . for according to the principles of the romanists , the judgement in the cause of the separation and of the truth of religion lies in that party from which we depart ; if we do now but apply this to the old roman senate or emperors in the case of christian religion and dividing from heathen worship , we shall quickly see how easie a matter it will be to make christianity its self a schism , and the doctrine of christ the greatest here sie . but as strong as those pretences were then , or have been since , the power of the doctrine of christ hath been so great , as to conquer them , and thereby to manifest that it was of god , when such potent prejudices were not able to withstand it . of which antiquity is the first . . the large and universal spread of pagan religion , when christianity came into the world ; there was never so great catholicism as in heathen worship , when the apostles first appeared in the gentile world . inde adeo per universa imperia , provincias , oppida , videmus singulos sacrorum ritus gentiles babere , & dcos colere municipes , saith caecilius in minutius felix . the great charge against the christians was novellism , that they brought in a strange and unheard of religion . the common question was , where was your religion before iesus of nazareth , as it hath been since , where was your religion before luther ? and the same answer which served then , will stand unmovable now , there where no other religion is , in the word of god. for this was the weapon whereby the primitive christians defended themselves against the assaults of paganism , and the evidences they brought that the doctrine preached by them and contained in the scriptures was originally from god , were the only means of overthrowing paganism , notwithstanding its pretended universality . . settlement by laws of heathen worship . this was so much pretended and pleaded for , that as far as we can finde by the history of the primitive church , the pretence on which the christians suffered , was sedition and opposing the established laws . the christians were reckoned inter illicitas factiones , as appears by tertullian , among unlawful corporations ; the politicians and statesmen were all for preserving the laws ; they troubled not themselves much about any religion ; but only that which was settled by law , they sought to uphold , because the acting contrary to it might bring some disturbance to the civil state . there were several laws which the christians were then brought under , and condemned for the breach of . . the law against hetaeriae , or conventicles as they were pleased frequently to stile the meeting of christians together ; thence the places where the christians assembled for worship , were commonly called conventicula ; it a appellabant loca , saith heraldus , ubi congregabantur christiani oraturi , & verbi divini interpretationem accepturi , ac sacras synaxes habituri : but elmenhorstius more shortly ; conventicula loca sunt ubi christiani congregati orare consucverunt . the places where the christians did meet and pray together , were called conventicles : in basi●ica siciunini ubi ritus christiani est conventiculum , saith ammianus marccllinus ; cur immaniter conventicula dirui ? saith arnobius ; qui universum populum cum ipso pariter conventiculo concremavit , as lactantius likewise speaks . now the reason of the name was , because the heathens judged these assemblies of christians to be illegal societies . for which we are to understand that in the time of the roman emperours when they grew suspicious of their own safety , they severely prohibited ail those sodalitia , or societies and colledges , which were very much in use in the roman commonwealth , in imitation of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the cities of greece . these were such societies of persons , which voluntarily confederated together either for some particular design , or for preserving love and friendship among each other , and thence had their frequent meetings in common together . now the more numerous these were , and the more ●losely they confederated , the more jealous eye the roman emperors had upon them , because of some clandestine designs , which they suspected might be carried on for disturbance of the publike peace in such suspitious meetings . thence came out many particular edicts of the emperours against all such kinds of societies . now when the christians began to be somewhat numerous , and had according to the principles of their religion frequent assemblies for divine worship , and did confederate together by such symbols , of being washed with water , and eating and drinking together ( which was all the heath●ns apprehended by their use of baptism , and the lords supper ) the proconsuls and other magistrates in their several provinces bring the christians under these edicts , and so punished them for the breach of the laws . which as appears by pliny his epistle to trajan , was the only account on which the wiser heathens did proceed against the christians ; for we see he troubled not himself much about the truth and evidence of christian religion , but such persons were brought before him , and after he had interrogated them whether they were christians , or no , several times , if they persisted , he then punished them not so much for their religion , as for their obstinacy and contempt of authority . for so much is im●lyed in those words of his , neque enim dubitabam , qual●cunque esset quod faterentur , pervicaciam certè , & inflexibilem obstin●tionem debere puniri : that whatever their religion was , their obstinacy and disobedience deserved punishment . that which the christians now pleaded for themselves , why they should not be reckoned among the factions of the people , was that which they gave in answer to pliny , that all their fault was , quod essent soliti stato die ante lucem convenire , carmenque christo quasi deo dicere secum invicem ; seque sacramento non in scelus aliquod obstringere , sed ne furta , nelatrocinia , ne adulteria committerent , ne fidem fallerent , ne depositum appellati abnegarent . that they were wont upon their solemn days to meet together for divine worship , and to covenant with each other only for the practice of those things which were as much for the good of mankinde as their own , viz. that they would not wrong and defraud others , as to their bodies or estates . and tertullian approves of the law against factions , as de providentia & modestia publica , nè civitas in partes seinderetur , as wisely intended to prevent seditions ; but withall pleads , that the society of christians could not be reckoned inter illicitas factiones ; for , saith he , haec coitio christianorum merito sane illicita si illicitis par ; merito damnanda si quis de ea queritur eo titulo quo de factionibus querela est . in cujus perniciem aliquando convenimus ? hoc sumus congregati quod & dispersi ; hoc universi quod & singuli ; neminem laedentes , neminem contristantes ; quum probi , quum boni coëunt , quum pii quum casti congregantur , non est factio dicenda sed curia . if , saith he , the societies of christians were like others , there might be some reason to condemn them , under the head of factions : but as long as we meet together for no mans injury , that whether divided , or assembled , we are still the same , that we grieve and injure no body ; when such a company of good men meet together , it is rather a council then a faction . . another law the christians were brought under , was , that against innovations in religion ; thence it was laid so much to the charge of the christians , that they did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , go contrary to the established laws ; as porphyrie said of origen , because he was a christian , he did , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and when he speaks of ammonius revolting from christianity to paganism , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he turned to the way of life , which was agreeable to the established laws . now christianity was every where looked on as a great innovation , insomuch that the christians were accused to be legum , morum , naturae inimici , as enemies to mankinde as well as the laws , because they drew men off from that way of religion which mankinde had generally agreed in . thence aemilianus the praefect of aegypt , when he bids the christians return to paganism , he useth these expressions , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . to return to the common sense of mankinde , and to forget what was so much against it , as he supposed christianity to be . when paul preached at athens , his first accusation was , that he was a prea●her of strange deities , because he preached to them iesus , and the resurrection . and demctrius at ephesus knew no such potent argument against paul , as that his religion destroyed the worship of diana , whom all asia and the world worship . so that the primitive christians were then accounted the antipodes to the whole world , on which account they were so severely dealt with ; most commonwealths observing the counsell of mecaenas to augustus , in dio , to be sure to have a watchfull eye upon all innovations in religion , because they tend so much to the disturbance of the civil state. . the law of sacriledge . thence lactantius calls their laws , constitutiones sacrilegae , quin etiam sceleratissimi homicidae contra pios jura impia condiderunt ; nam & constitutiones sacrilegae , & disputationes iurisperitorum leguntur injustae ; and as he tels us , domitius ulpianus had collected all those rescripta nefaria together , which concerned the christians ; from hence it was , christianity by pliny , is called amentia , by tacitus exitiabilis superstitio , by suet●nius superstitio nova & exitiabilis ; so much did these three great men agree , in condemning the best religion in the world for madness , and new , and detestable superstition ; the ground of the great pique was , the emnity declared by christians against the idolatrous temples , and worship of the heathens . . the law against treason ; for sometimes they proceeded so high , as to accuse the christians laesae majestatis , and thence they are commonly called publici hostes , enemies to all civil government . which they infer'd from hence : . because they would not sacrifice for the emperors safety ; ideo committimus , saith tertullian , in majestatem imperatorum , quia illos non subjicimus rebus suis ; quia non ludimus de officio salutis eorum , qui eam non putamus in manibus esse plumbatis . the accusation for treason lay in their refusing to supplicate the idols for the emperors welfare . . because they would not swear by the emperors genius . thence saturnius said to the martyr , tantum jura per genium caesaris nostri , if he would but swear by the genius of caesar , he should be saved . yet though they refused to swear by the emperours genius , they did not refuse to testifie their allegiance , and to swear by the emperors safety . sed & juramus , saith tertullian , sicut non per genios caesarum , it ae per salutem corum quae est augustior omnibus geniis . . because they would not worship the emperours as gods ; which was then grown a common custom . non enim deum imperatorem dicam , vel quia mentirinescio , vel quia illum deridere non audeo , vel quia necipse se deum volet dici si homo sit , as the same author speaks . nay the primitive christians were very scrupulous of calling the emperours dominus , hoc enim dei est cognomen , because the name lord was an attribute of gods , and applied as his name to him in scripture . the reason of this scrupulosity was not , from any question they made of the soveraignty of princes , or their obligation to obedience to them ( which they are very free in the acknowledgement of ) but from a jealousie and just suspicion that something of divine honour might be implyed in it , when the adoration of princes was grown a custom . therefore tertullian to prevent misunderstandings , saith , dicam plane imperatorem dominum , sed more communi , sed quando non cogor ut dominum dei vice dicam . they refused not the name in a common sense , but as it implyed divine honour . . because they would not observe the publick festivals of the emperors in the way that others did , which it seems were observed with abundance of looseness and debauchery by all sorts of persons ; and as tertullian smartly sayes , malorum morum licentia piet as erit ; & occasio luxuriae religio deputabitur ? debauchery is accounted a piece of loyalty , and intemperance a part of religion . which made the christians rather hazard the reputation of their loyalty , then bear a part in so much rudeness as was then used , and thence they abhorred all the solemn spectacles of the romans ; nihil est nobis , saith the same author , dictu , visu , auditu , cum insania circi , cum impudicitia theatri , cum atrocitate arenae , cum xysti vanitate . they had nothing to do either with the madness of the cirque , or the immodesty of the theatre , or the cruelty of the amphitheatre , or the vanity of the publick wrestlings . we see then what a hard province the christians had , when so many laws were laid as birdlime in their way to catch them , that it was impossible for them to profess themselves christians and not run into a praemunire by their laws . and therefore it cannot be conceived that many out of affectation of novelty should then declare themselves christians , when so great hazards were run upon the professing of it . few soft-spirited men , and lovers of their own ease , but would have found some fine distinctions and nice evasions to have reconciled themselves to the publick laws by such things which the primitive christians so unaenimously refused , when tending to prophaness or idolatry . and from this discourse we cannot but conclude with the apostle paul , that the weapons whereby the ap●stles and primitive christians encountered the heathen world , were not fleshly or weak , but exceeding strong and powerfull , in that they obtained so great a conquest over the imaginations and carnal reasonings of men ( which were their strong holds they secured themselves in ) as to make them readily to forsake their heathen worship , and become chearful servants to christ. thus we see the power of the doctrine of christ which prevailed over the principles of education , though backt with pretended antiquity , universality , and establishment by civil laws . but this will further appear if we consider that not only the matters of faith were contrary to the principles of education , but because many of them seemed incredible to mens natural reason ; that we cannot think persons would be over forward to believe such things . every one being so ready to take any advantage against a religion which did so little flatter corrupt nature either as to its power or capacity ; in so much that those who preached this doctrine , declared openly to the world , that such persons who would judge of the christian doctrine , by such principles which meer natural reason did proceed upon ( such one i suppose it is whom the apostle calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 one that owned nothing but natural reason whereby to judge of divine truths ) could not entertain matters of faith or of divine revelation , because such things would seem but folly to him that owned no higher principle then philosophy , or that did not believe any divine inspiration ; neither can such a one know them , because a divine revelation is the only way to come to a through understanding of them : and a person who doth not believe such a divine revelation , it is impossible he should be a competent judge of the truth of the doctrine of christ. so that the only ground of receiving the doctrine of the gospel is upon a divine revelation , that god himself by his son and his apostles hath revealed these deep mysteries to the world , on which account it is we are bound to receive them , although they go beyond our reach and comprehension . but we see generally in the heathen world how few of those did believe the doctrine of christ in comparison , who were the great admirers of the philosophy and way of learning which was then cryed up : the reason was , because christianity not only contained far deeper mysteries then any they were acquainted with , but delivered them in such a way of authority , commanding them to believe the doctrine they preached on the account of the divine authority of the revealers of it . such a way of proposal of doctrines to the world the philosophy of the greeks was unacquainted with , which on that account they derided as not being suited to the exact method which their sciences proceeded in . no doubt had the apostles come among the greeks 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with a great deal of pomp and ostentation , and had fed mens curiositi●s with vain and unnecessary speculations , they might have had as many followers among the greeks for their sakes , as christ had among the iews for the sake of the loaves . but the matters of the gospel being more of inward worth and moment , then of outward pomp and shew , the vain and empty greeks presently finde a quarrel with the manner of proposing them ; that they came not in a way of clear demonstr●tion , but stood so much upon faith as soon as it were delivered . thence celsus and galen think they have reason enough to reject the laws of moses and christ , because celsus calls them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , galen christianity 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that they were such doctrines which require faith and obedience without giving mens reason an account of the things commanded . as though the authority of a legislator sufficiently manifested , were not enough to enforce a law , unless a sufficient account were given of the thing required to the purblind reason of every individual person acted by passions and private interests , as to the justice and equity of it . and so the primary obligation on mans part to faith and obedience , must arise not from the evidence of divine authority , but of the thing it self which is revealed , to the most partial judgement of every one to whom it is proposed . which those who know how short the stock of reason is at the best in men , and how easily that which is , is fashioned and moulded according to pr●judices and interests already entertained , will look upon only as a design to comply with the carnal desires of men , in that thereby none shall be bound to go any further , then this blind and corrupted guide shall lead them . now these being the terms on which the gospel of christ must have expected entertainment in the gentile world , how impossible l●ad it been ever to have sound any success among men , had there not been sufficient evidence given by a power of miracles , that however strange and incredible the doctrine might seem , yet it was to be believed because there was sufficient means to convince men that it was of divine revelation . neither were the matters of saith only contrary to the inclinations of the world , but so were the precepts of life or those things in christianity which concerned practice . there are two things which are the main scope and design of christianity in reference to mens lives , to take them off from their sins , and from the world ; and of all things these are they which mens hearts are so bewitched with . now the precepts of the gospel are such which require the greatest purity of heart and life , which call upon men to deny themselves , and all ungodliness , and worldly lusts , and to live soberly , and righteously , and godly in this present world ; that , all that name the name of christ must depart from iniquity ; that , all true christians must be cleansed from all filthiness of flesh and spirit , and must perfect holiness in the fear of god. and the gospel enforceth these precepts of holiness with the most terrible denunciations of the wrath of god on those who disobey them ; that , the lord iesus christ shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not god and that obey not the gospel of iesus christ. that , the wrath of god is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men , who hold the truth in unrighteousness . that , no persons who live in the habitual practice of any known sin , shall inherit the kingdom of god. that , no man should deceive them with vain words , for because of these things comes the wrath of god upon the children of disobedience ; that men do but vainly flatter themselves when they seek to reconcile unholy lives with the hopes of future happiness ; for without holiness , no man shall see the lord. and then in reference to the things of this present life which men busie themselves so much about , the gospel declares that , they who love this world , the love of the father is not in them ; that , the friendship of this world is enmity with god ; and whosoever will be a friend of the world , is an enemy to god : that , christians must not set their affections on earth , but on things in heaven ; that , the conversation of true christians is in heaven . that , we ought not to lay up our treasure on earth , but in heaven ; that , we must not look at the things which are seen , but at the things which are not seen ; for the things which are seen are temporal , but the things which are not seen are eternal . now the whole design of the doctrine of christ being to perswade men to lead a holy and heavenly life while they are in this world , and thereby to be made meet to be partakers of the inheritance with the saints in light , can we think so many men whose hearts were wedded to sin and the world , could so suddenly be brought off from both without a divine power accompanying that doctrine which was preached to them ? and therefore the apostle saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i am not ashamed of the gospel of christ ; i. e. though the gospel of christ be the only true mysterie , yet i do not by it as the heathens are wont to do with their famous eleusinian mysteries which were kept so secret by all the mystae and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; but , saith he , i know no reason i have to be ashamed of any thing in the gospel , that i should labour its concealment to advance its veneration ; but the more publike the gospel is , the more it manifests its power ; for through it god is pleased mightily to work in order to the salvation both of iew and gentile . and of all the success of the gospel , that upon the hearts and lives of men deserves the greatest consideration . the great efficacy and power of the gospel was abundantly seen in that great alteration which it wrought in all those who were the hearty imbracers of it . the philosophers did very frequently and deservedly complain of the great inefficacy of all their moral precepts upon the minds of men , and that by all their instructions , politiora non meliora , ingenia fiunt , men improved more in knowledge then goodness ; but now christianity not only enforced duties on men with greater power and authority : for the scriptures do , as saint austin speaks , non tanquam ex philosophorum concertationibus strepere , sed tanquam ex oraculis & dei nubibus intonare , not make some obstreperous clamours , like those tinkling cymbals the philosophers , but awe the souls of men with the majesty of that god from whom they came . neither was it only a great and empty sound which was heard in the preaching of the gospel , but when god thundred therein , he broke down the stately cedars , and shook the wilderness , and made the hinds to calve , ( as it is said of thunder , called the voice of the lord in scripture ) he humbled the pride of men , unsettled the gentile world from its former foundations , and wrought great alterations on all those who hearkened to it . the whose design of the gospel is couched in those words which saint paul tells us were spoken to him by christ himself , when he appointed him to be an apostle , to open mens eyes , and to turn them from darkness to light , and from the power of satan unto god , that they may receive forgiveness of sins , and inheritance among them which were sanctified by faith in christ. and the efficacy of this doctrine in order to these great ●nds , was abundantly seen in the preaching of that apostle , who was so instrumental in converting the world to piety and sobriety , as well as to the doctrine of christ. what strange persons were the corinthians before they became christians ! for when the apostle had enumerated many of the vilest persons of the world , he presently adds , and such were some of you ; but ye are washed , but ye are sanctified , but ye are justified in the name of the lord iesus , and by the spirit of our god. the more dangerous the distemper is , the more malignant its nature , the more inveterate its continuance , the greater the efficacy of the remedy which works a cure of it . the power of grace is the more seen in conversion , the greater the sins have been before it . it is an easie matter in comparison , to remove a disease at its first onset , of what it is to cure it when it becomes chronical . the power of the gospel wrought upon all sorts and kinds of persons , to manifest to the world there was no distemper of mens souls so great , but there was a possibility of a remedy for it ; and not only so , but pregnant and visible instances were given of the power and efficacy of it . for they themselves shew of us , saith the apostle , what manner of entring in we had among you , and how ye turned to god from idols , to serve the living and true god , and to wait for his son from heaven , whom he raised from the dead , even iesus , which delivered us from the wrath to come . now that which manifests the exceeding great power and excellency of the gospel , was , that it not only turned men from one way of worship to another , which is a matter of no great difficulty , but that it turned men together with that , from their lusts and sensuality , to a holy and unblameable life . for being more in love with their sins then with their opinions , it must needs be a greater power which draws men from the practice of habitual sins , then that which only makes them change their opinions , or alter the way of worship they were brought up in . this is that which origen throughout his books against celsus triumphs in as the most signal evidence of a divine power in the doctrine of christ , that it wrought so great an alteration on all that truly embraced it , that of vitious , debauched , and dissolute , it made them temperate , sober and religious . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the doctrine of christ did convert the most wicked persons who imbraced it , from all their debaucheries , to a life most suitable to nature and reason , and to the practise of all vertues . therefore certainly the gospel could not want that commendation among all ingenuous moralists , that it was the most excellent instrument in the world to reform the lives of men , and to promote real goodness in it . when they could not but take notice of so many persons continually so brought off from their follies and vain conversations , to a life serious , sober , and unblameable ; nay and some of the christians were of so much integrity and goodness , that their greatest enemies were forced to say that their only fault was that they were christians . bonus vir cajus sejus , tantum quod christianus . a very good man , only a christian. but one would think this should have made them have a higher opinion of christianity , when it did so suddenly make so many good men in the world . especially when this power was so manifest on such persons who were supposed uncapable of being reformed by philosophy , young , illiterate , and mean-spirited persons ; therefore it may be justly supposed that it was not by the strength of their own reason that this alteration was wrought within them , but by that divine power which was able to tame the most unruly , to instruct the most ignorant , to raise up the most sordid persons to such a generous temper as to slight the good things of this life , in comparison with those to come . and so remarkable was the difference of life then between those who were christians , and those who were not , ( as there is still between true christians and meer pretenders ) that origen dares celsus to compare them in point of morality with any other societies in the world . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; for the churches of god , which are discipled to christ , being compared with other societies , shine among them like lights in the world . for who can but confess , that even the worser part of the christian churches exceeds the best of the popular assemblies ? for , as he goes on , the church of god which is at athens , that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , very quiet and peaceable , because it seeks to approve its sels to god ; but the popular assemby at athens that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , seditious and quarrelsom , and in nothing comparable to the church of god there . so it is , if we compare the churches of corinth and alexandria with the assemblies of the people there . so that any candid enquirer after truth will exceedingly wonder ( how such fair islands should appear nantes in gurgite vasto , in the midst of such a sea of wickedness as was in those cities ) how these churches of god should be planted in such rude and prophane places . so the same author goes on , to compare the churches senate with that of the cities , the churches officers with theirs , and appeals to themselves , that even those among them who were most luke-warm in their office , did yet far exceed all the city magistrates in all manner of vertues . from whence he rationally concludes , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; if these things be so , how can it but be most rational to adore the divinity of iesus , who was able to accomplish such great things . and that not upon one or two , but upon such great multitudes as were then converted to the christian faith . we read of one phoedon , and one polemon brought from their debaucheries by socrates and xenocrates ; but what are these compared with those who were turned from their sins to god by the gospel of christ ! 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. the twelve apostles were but the first fruits of that plentiful harvest of converts which followed afterwards . and although celsus ( like an epicurean ) seems to deny the possibility of any such thing as conversion , because customary sins become a second nature , that no punishments can reform them ; yet , saith origen , herein he not only contradicts us christians , but all such as were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , who owned any generous principles of philosophy , and did not despair of recovering vertue , as a thing feasible by humane nature ; and gives instances ad hominem , to prove the possibility of the thing from the antient heroes , hercules and ulysses , from the two philosophers , socrates and musonius , and the two famous converts to philosophy , phoedon and polemon . but yet , saith he , these are not so much to be wondered at , that the eloquence and reason of the philosophers should prevail on some very few persons , but that the mean and contemptible language of the apostles , should convert such multitudes from intemperance to sobriety , from injustice to fair dealing , from cowardise to the highest constancy , yea so great as to lay down their lives for the sake of vertue ; how can we but admire so divine a power as was seen in it ? and therefore , saith he , we conclude , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that it is so far from being impossible , that it is not at all difficult for corrupt nature to be changed by the word of god. lactantius excellently manifests that philosophy could never do so much good in the world as christianity did , because that was not suited at all to common capacities , and did require so much skill in the arts to prepare men for it , which it is impossible all should be well skilled in , which yet are as capable of being happy , as any others are . and how inefficacious the precepts of philosophy were , appears by the philosophers themselves , who were far from having command by them over their masterless passions , and were fain sometimes to confess that nature was too head-strong to be kept in by such weak reins as the precepts of philosophy were : but , saith he , what great command divine precepts have upon the souls of men , daily experience shews . da mihi virum qui sit iracundus , maledicus , effrenatus ; paucissimis dei verbis , tam placidum quam ovem reddam . da cupidum , avarum , tenacem ; jam tibi eum liberalem dabo , & pecuniam suam plenis manibus largientem . da timidum doloris ac mortis ; jam cruces , & ignes , taurum contemnet . da libidinosum , adulterum ; ganeonem ; jam sobrium castum ●ontinentem videbis . da crudelem , & sanguinis appetentem , jam in veram clementiam furor ille mutabitur . da injustum , insipientem , peccatorem , continuo & aequus & prudens , & innocens crit . in which words that elegant writer doth by a rhetorical scheme set out the remarkable alteration which was in any who became true christians , that although they were passionate , covetous , fearful , lustful , cruel , unjust , vitious , yet upon their being christians , they became mild , liberal , couragious , temperate , merciful , just and unblameable ; which never any were brought to by meer philosophy , which rather teacheth the art of concealing vices , then of healing them . but now when christianity was so effectual in the cure of those distempers which philosophy gave over as beyond its skill and power , when it cured them with so great success , and that not in a paracelsian way , for them to relapse afterwards with greater violence , but it did so throughly unsettle the fomes morbi , that it should never gather to so great a head again ; doth not this argue a power more then philosophical , and that could be no less then divine power which tended so much to reform the world , and to promote true goodness in it ? thus we have considered the contrariety of the doctrine of christ to mens natural inclinations , and yet the strange success it had in the world , which in the last place will appear yet more strange , when we add the almost continual opposition it met with from worldly power and policy . had it been possible for a cunningly devised fable , or any meer contrivance of impostors to have prevailed in the world , when the most potent and subtile persons bent their whole wits and designs for suppressing it ? whatever it were in others , we are sure of some of the roman emperours , as iulian and dioclesian , that it was their master-design to root out and abolish christianity ; and was it only the subtilty of the christians which made these persons give over their work in despair of accomplishing it ? if the christians were such subtile men , whence came all their enemies to agree in one common calumny , that they were a company of poor , weak , ignorant , inconsiderable men ! and if they were so , how came it to pass that by all their power and wisdom they could never exterminate these persons , but as they cut them down , they grew up the faster , and multiplyed by their substraction of them ! there was something then certainly peculiar in christianity , from all other doctrines , that it not only was not advanced by any civil power , but it got ground by the opposition it met with in the world . and therefore it is an observable circumstance , that the first christian emperour ( who acted as emperour for christianity ) viz. constantine ( for otherwise i know what may be said for philippus ) did not appear in the world till christianity had spread its self over most parts of the habitable world . god thereby letting us see , that though the civil power , when become christian , might be very useful for protecting christianity , yet that he stood in no need at all of it as to the propagation of it abroad in the world . but we see it was quite otherwise in that religion which had mars its ascendant , viz. mahometism ; for like paracelsus his daemon , it alwayes sat upon the pummel of the sword , and made its way in the world meerly by force and violence ; and as its first constitution had much of blood in it , so by it hath it been fed and nourished ever since . but it was quite otherwise with the christian religion ; it never thrived better then in the most barren places , nor triumphed more , then when it suffered most ; nor spread its self further then when it encountered the greatest opposition . because therein was seen the great force and efficacy of the doctrine of christ , that it bore up mens spirits under the greatest miseries of life , and made them with chearfulness to undergo the most exquisite torments which the cruelty of tyrants could invent . the stoicks and epicureans boasts that their wise man would be happy in the bull of phalaris , were but empty and thrasonical words which none would venture the truth of by an experiment upon themselves . it was the christian alone , and not the epicurean , that could truly say in the midst of torments , suave est & nihil curo , and might justly alter a little of that common saying of the christians , and say , non magna l●quimur , sed patimur , as well as vivimus ; the christians did not speak great things , but do and suffer them . and this gained not only great r●putation of integrity to themselves , but much advanced the honour of their religion in the world , when it was so apparently seen that no force or power was able to withstand it . will not this at least perswade you that our religion is true , and srom god , saith ar●●bius ? quod cum genera poenarum tanta sint à vobis proposita religionis hujus sequentibus leges , augeatur res magis , & contra omnes minas , atque interdicta formidinum animosius populus obnitatur , & ad credendi studium prohibitionis ipsius stimulis ●xcitetur ? — itane istud non divinum & sacrum est , aut sine deo , corum tantas animorum ficri conversiones ut cum carnisices unci , aliique innumeri cruciatus , quemadmodum diximus , impendeant credituris , v●luti quadam dulcedine , atque omnium virtutum amore correpti , cognitas accipiant rationes , atque mundi omnibus rebus praeponant amicitias christi ? that no fears , penalties , or torments , were able to m●ke a christian alter his profession , but he would rather bid adi●u to his life then to his saviour . this origen likewise frequently takes notice of , when celsus had objected the novelty of christianity ; the more wonderful it is ( saith origen ) that in so short a time it should so largely spread its self in the world ; for if the cure of mens bodies be not wrought without divine providence , how much less the cure of so many thousands of souls which have been converted at once to humanity and christianity , especially when all the pow●rs of the world were from the first engaged to hinder the progress of this doctrine , and yet notwithstanding all this opposition , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the word of god pr●vailed , as not being able to be stopt by men , and became master over all its enemies , and not only spread its self quite through greece , but through a great part of the world besides , and converted an innumerable company of souls to the true worship and service of god. thus we have now manifested from all the circumstances of the propagation of the doctrine of christ , what evidence there was of a divine power accompanying of it ; and how useful the first miracles were in order to it . chap. x. the difference of true miracles from false . the unreasonableness of rejecting the evidence from miracles , because of impostures . that there are certain rules of distinguishing true miracles from false , and divine from diabolical , proved from gods intention in giving a power of miracles , and the providence of god in the world . the inconvenience of taking away the rational grounds of faith and placing it on self-evidence . of the self-evidence of the scriptures , and the insufficiency of that for resolving the question about the authority of the scriptures . of the pretended miracles of impostors and false christs , as barchochelas david el-david and others . the rules whereby to judge true miracles from false . . true divine miracles are wrought to confirm a divine testimony . no miracles necessary for the certain conveyance of a divine testimony : proved from the evidences that the scriptures could not be corrupted . . no miracles divine which contradict divine revelation . of popish miracles . . divine miracles leave divine effects on those who believe them . of the miracles of simon magus . . divine miracles tend to the overthrow of the devils power in the world : the antipathy of the doctrine of christ to the devils designs in the world . . the distinction of true miracles from others , from the circumstances and manner of their operation . the miracles of christ compared with those of the heathen gods. . god makes it evident to all impartial judgements that divine miracles exceed created power . this manifested from the unparalleld miracles of moses and our saviour . from all which the rational evidence of divine revelation is manifested , as to the persons whom god imployes to teach the world . having thus far stated the cases wherein miracles may justly be expected as a rational evidence of divine authority in the persons whom god imployes by way of peculiar message to the world , and in the prosecution of this discourse manifested the evidences of divine authority in moses and the prophets , and in our saviour and his apostles ; the only remaining question concerning this subject is , how we may certainly distinguish true and real miracles from such as are only pretended and counterfeit . for it being as evident that there have been impostures and delusions in the world as real miracles , the minds of men will be wholly to seek when to rely upon the evidence of miracles as an argument of divine authority in those persons who do them , unless a way be found out to distinguish them from each other . but if we can make it appear , that , unless men through weakness of judgement or incogitancy deceive themselves , they may have certain evidence of the truth of miracles , then there can be nothing wanting as to the establishment of their minds in the truth of that doctrine which is confirmed by them . there hath been nothing which hath made men of better affections then understandings , so ready to suspect the strength of the evidence from miracles concerning divine testimony , as the multitude of impostures in the world under the name of miracles , and that the scripture its self tells us we must not hearken to such as come with lying wonders . but may we not therefore safely rely on such miracles which we have certain evidence could not be wrought but by divine power , because forsooth the devil may sometimes abuse the ignorance and credulity of unwary men ? or is it because the scripture forbids us to believe such as should come with a pretence of miracles , therefore we cannot rely on the miracles of christ himself ? which is as much as to say , because the scripture tells us that we must not believe every spirit , therefore we must believe none at all ; or because we must not entertain any other doctrine besides the gospel , therefore we have no reason to believe that . for the ground whereby we are assured by the scriptures that the testimony of christ was divine , and therefore his doctrine true , is , because it was confirmed by such miracles as he did ; now if that argument were insufficient which the scriptures tell us was the great evidence of christs being sent from god , we cannot give our selves a sufficient account in point of evidence on which we believe the doctrine of the gospel to be true and divine . but the only rational pretence of any scruple in this case must be a supposed uncertainty in our rules of judging concerning the nature of miracles ; for if there be no certain 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or notes of difference , whereby to know divine miracles from delusions of senses and the impostures of the devil , i must confess that there is an apparent insufficiency in the evidence from miracles ; but if there be any certain rules of proceeding in this case , we are to blame nothing but our incredulity if we be not satisfied by them . for the full clearing of this , i shall first make it appear that there may be certain evidence found out , whereby we may know true miracles from false , and divine from diabolical . and , secondly , enquire into those things which are the main notes of difference between them . first , that there may be certain evidence whereby to know the truth of miracles . i speak not of the difference ex parte r●i between miracles and those called wonders , as that the one exceed the power of created agents , and the other doth not ; for this leaves the enquirer as far to seek for satisfaction as ever ; for granting that a divine power is seen in one and not in the other , he must needs be still dissatisfied , unless it can be made evident to him that such things are from divine power , and others cannot be . now the main distinction being placed here in the natures of the things abstractly considered , and not as they bear any evidence to our understandings , in stead of resolving doubts it increaseth more ; for , as for instance , in the case of the magicians rods turning into scrpents , as well as moses his ; what satisfaction could this yeild to any spectator to tell him , that in the one there was a divine power and not in the other , unless it were made appear by some evidence from the thing , that the one was a meer imposture , and the other a real alteration in the thing it self ? i take it then for granted , that no general discourses concerning the formal difference of miracles and wonders considered in themselves can afford any rational satisfaction to an inquisitive mind ; that which alone is able to give it , must be something which may be discerned by any judicious and considerative person . and that god never gives to any a power of miracles , but he gives some such ground of satisfaction concerning them , will appear upon these two considerations . . from gods intention in giving to any this power of doing miracles . we have largely made it manifest that the end of true miracles is to be a confirmation to the world of the divine commission of the persons who have it , and that the testimony is divine which is confirmed by it . now if there be no way to know when miracles are true or false , this power is to no purpose at all ; for men are as much to seek for satisfaction , as if there had been no such things at all . therefore if men are bound to believe a divine testimony , and to rely on the miracles wrought by the persons bringing it , as an evidence of it , they must have some assurance that these miracles could not come from any but a divine power . . from the providence of god in the world ; which if we own , we cannot imagine that god should permit the devil , whose only design is to ruine mankind , to abuse the credulity of the world so far , as to have his lying wonders pass uncontrouled , which they must do , if nothing can be found out as a certain difference between such things as are only of diabolical and such as are of divine power . if then it may be discovered that there is a malignant spirit which acts in the world , and doth produce strange things , either we must impute all strange things to him , which must be to attribute to him an infinite power , or else that there is a being infinitely perfect which crosseth this malignant spirit in his designs ; and if so , we cannot imagine he should suffer him to usurpe so much tyranny over the minds of men , as to make those things pass in the more sober and inquisitive part of the world for divine miracles which were only counterfeits and impostures . if then the providence of god be so deeply engaged in the discovering the designs of satan , there must be some means of this discovery , and that means can be supposed to be no other in this case , but some rational and satisfactory evidence , whereby we may know when strange and miraculous things are done by satan to deceive men , and when by a divine power to confirm a divine testimony . but how is it possible , say some , that miracles should be any ground on which to believe a testimony divine , when christ himself hath told us , that there shall arise false christs and false prophets and shall shew great signs and wonders ; in so much that if it were possible they should deceive the very elect ? and the apostle tells us , that the coming of antichrist will be with all power and signs and lying wonders . how then can we fix on miracles as an evidence of divine testimony when we see they are common to good and bad men , and may seal indifferently either truth or falshood ? to this i reply ; . men are guilty of doing no small disservice to the doctrine of christ , when upon such weak and frivolous pretences they give so great an advantage to infidelity , as to call in question the validity of that which yeilded so ample a testimony to the truth of christian religion . for if once the rational grounds on which we believe the doctrine of christ to be true and divine , be taken away , and the whole evidence of the truth of it be laid on things not only derided by men of atheistical spirits , but in themselves such as cannot be discerned or judged of by any but themselves , upon what grounds can we proceed to convince an unbeliever that the doctrine which we believe is true ! if they tell him , that as light and fire manifest themselves , so doth the doctrine of the scri●ture to those who believe it ; it will be soon replyed , that self-evidence in a matter of faith can imply nothing but either a firm perswasion of the mind concerning the thing propounded ; or else that there are such clear evidences in the thing it self , that none who freely use their reason can deny it ; the first can be no argument to any other person any further then the authority of the person who declares it to have such self-evidence to him , doth extend its self over the mind of the other ; and to ones self it seems a strange way of arguing , i believe the scriptures because they are true , and they are true because i believe them ; for self-evidence implyes so much , if by it be meant the perswasion of the mind that the thing is true ; but if by self-evidence be further meant such clear evidence in the matter propounded that all who do consider it , must believe it ; i then further enquire whether this evidence doth lie in the n●ked proposal of the things to the understanding ; and if so , then every one who assents to this proposition that the whole is greater then the part , must likewise assent to this , that the scripture is the word of god ; or whether doth the evidence lie , not in the naked proposal , but in the efficacy of the spirit of god on the minds of those to whom it is propounded . then , . the self-evidence is taken off from the written word which was the object , and removed to a quite different thing which is the efficient cause . . whether then any persons who want this efficacious operation of the spirit of god , are or can be bound to believe the scripture to be gods word ? if they are bound , the duty must be propounded in such a way as may be sufficient to convince them that it is their duty ; but if all the evidence of the truth of the scripture lie on this testimony of the spirit , then such as want this , can have none at all . but if ●astly , by this self-evidence be meant such an impress of gods authority on the scriptures that any who consider them as they ought , cannot but discern , i still further enquire , whether this impress lies in the positive assertions in scripture that they are from god , and that cannot be unless it be made appear to be impossible that any writing should pretend to be from god when it is not ; or else in the written books of scripture , and then let it be made appear that any one meerly by the evidence of the writings themselves without any further arguments can pronounce the proverbs to be the word of god , and not the book of wisdom ; and ecclesiastes to be divinely inspired and not ecclesiasticus : or else the self-evidence must be in the excellency of the matters which are revealed in scripture ; but this still falls very short of resolving wholly the question whether the scripture be the word of god ; for the utmost that this can reach to is , that the things contained in scripture are of so high and excellent a nature , that we cannot conceive that any other should be the author of them , but god himself ; all which being granted , i am as far to seek as ever what grounds i have to believe that those particular writings which we call the scripture are the word of god , or that god did immediately imploy such and such persons to write such and such books ; for i may believe the substance of the doctrine to be of god , and yet not believe the books wherein it is contained , to be a divine and infallible testimony ; as is evident in the many excellent devotional books which are in the world . but yet further , if the only ground on which we are to believe a doctrine divine , be the self-evidencing light and power of it , then i suppose there was the same ground of beli●ving a divine testimony when the doctrine was declared without writing by the first preachers of it . so that by this method of proceeding , the ground of believing christ to be sent as the m●ssias sent from god , must be wholly and solely resolved into this , that there was so much self-evidence in this proposition uttered by christ , i am the light of the world , that all the iews had been bound to have believed him sent from god ( for light manifests its self ) although our saviour had never done any one miracle to make it appear that he came from god. and we cannot but charge our saviour on this account with being at a very unnecessary expence upon the world in doing so many miracles , when the bare naked affirmation that he was the messias , had been sufficient to have convinced the whole world . but is it conceivable then upon what account our saviour should lay so much force on the miracles done by himself in order to the proving his testimony to be divine , that he saith himself , that he had a greater witness then that of john ( who yet doubtless had self-evidencing light going along with his doctrine too ) for the works which the father hath given me to finish , the same works that i do , bear witness of me that the father hath sent me . can any thing be more plain , or have greater self-evidence in it , then that our saviour in these words doth lay the evidence of his divine testimony upon the miracles which he wrought , which on that account he so often appeals to , on this very reason because they bear witness of him ; and if they would not believe him on his own testimony , yet they ought to believe him for his works sake . doth all this now amount only to a removing of prejudices from the person of christ ? which yet according to the tenour of the objection we are considering of , it is impossible the power of miracles should do , if these miracles may be so far done or counterfeited by false christs , that we can have no certain evidence to distinguish the one from the other , which the objection pretends ; and was the great thing wherein celsus the epicurean triumphed so much , that christ should foretell that others should come and do miracles which they must not hearken to , and thence would infer as from christs own confession that miracles have in them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , nothing divine , but what may be done by wicked men : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; is it not a wretched thing , saith he , that from the same works one should be accounted a god , and others deceivers ? whereby those who would invalidate the argument from miracles , may take notice how finely they fall in with one of the most bitter enemies of christian religion , and make use of the same arguments which he did ; and therefore origens reply to him , will reach them too . for , saith he , our saviour in those words of his doth not bid men beware in general of such as did miracles , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; but bids them beware of that when men gave themselves out to be the true christ the son of god , and endeavour to draw christs disciples from him , by some meer appearances in stead of miracles . therefore christ being evidently made appear to be the son of god , by the powerful and uncontrouled miracles which he wrought , what pretence of reason could there be to hearken to any who gave themselves out to be christs , meerly from some strange wonders which they wrought ? and from hence , as he further observes , may be justly inferd contrary to what celsus imagined , that there was certainly an evidence of divine power in miracles , when these false christs gave themselves out to be christs , meerly from the supposal that they had this power of doing miracles . and so it is evident in all the false christs which have appeared , they have made this their great pretence that they did many signs and wonders ; which god might justly permit them to do , to punish the great infidelity of the iews who would not believe in christ notwithstanding those frequent and apparent miracles which he did , which did infinitely transcend those of any such pretenders . such among the iews were ionathas , who after the d●struction of jerusalem , as iosephus tells us , drew many of the people into the wilderness of cyrene , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , promising to shew them many prodigies and strange appearances . not long after in the times of adrian , appeared that famous blazing-star barchochebas , who not only portended but brought so much mischief upon the iews ; his pretence was that he vomited flames , and so he did , such as consumed himself and his followers ; after him many other impostors arose in aegypt , cyprus and crete , who all went upon the same pretence of doing miracles . in latter times the famous impostor was david el-david , whose story is thus briefly reported by david ganz . david el-david pretended to be the true messias , and rebelled against the king of persia , and did many signs and prodigies before the iews and the king of persia : at last his head was cut off , and the iews fined an hundred talents of gold ; in the epistle of rambam or r. moses maimon . it is said , that the king of persia desired of him a sign , and he told him , that he should cut off his head and he would rise again ; ( which he cunningly desired to avoid , being tormented ) which the king was resolved to try , and accordingly executed him ; but i suppose his resurrection and mahomets will be both in a day , although maimonides tells us , some of the iews are yet such fools as to expect his resurrection . several other impostors maimonides mentions in his epistle de australi regione . one who pretended to be the messias because he cured himself of the leprosie in a night ; several others he mentions in spain , france , and other parts , and the issue of them all was only a further aggravation of the miseries and captivities of the poor iews , who were so credulous in following impostors , and yet such strange infidels where there were plain and undoubted miracles to perswade them to believe in our blessed saviour as the true messias . we freely grant then that many pretended miracles may be done in the world to deceive men with ; but doth it hence follow that either there are no true miracles done in the world , or that there are no certain rules to distinguish the one from the other ? but as origen yet further replyes to celsus , as a woolf doth very much resemble a dog , yet they are not of the same kind ; nor a turtle dove and a pigeon ; so that which is produced by a divine power , is not of the same nature with that which is produced by magick ; but as he argues , is it possible that there should be only deceits in the world , and magical operations ; and can there be no true miracles at all wrought ? is humane nature only capable of impostures , or can none work miracles but devils ? where there is a worse , there may be a better ; and so from the impostures & counterfeits , we may inferr that there are true miracles , wrought by a divine power ; otherwise it were all one as to say , there are counterfeits , but no iewels ; or there are sophisms and paralogisms , but no l●gitimate demonstrations ; if then there be such deceits , there are true miracl●s too ; all the business is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , strictly and severely to examine the pret●nders to do them , and that from the life and manners of those that do them , and from the eff●cts and consequents of them , wheth●r they do good or hurt in the world , wh●ther th●y correct mens manners , or bring men to goodness , holin●ss and truth ; and on this account we are neither to reject all miracles , nor embrace all pret●nces , but carefully and prudently examine the rational evidences whereby those which are true and divine , may be known from such which are counterfeit and diabolical . and this now leads us to the main subj●ct of this chapter , viz. what rules we have to ●roceed by , in judging miracles to be true or false ; which may be these following . true divine miracles are wrought in confirmation of some divine t●stimony . because we have manifested by all the precedent discourse , that the intention of miracles is to seal some divine revelation . therefore if god should work miracles when no divine t●stimony is to be confirmed , god would set the broad seal of heaven to a blank . if it be said no , because it will witness to us now the truth of that testimony which was delivered so many ages since . i answer , . the truth of that testimony was sufficiently sealed at the time of the delivery of it , and is conveyed down in a certain way to us . is it not sufficient that the chart●r of a corporation had the princes broad seal in the time of the giving of it , but that every succ●ssion of men in that corporation must have a new broad seal , or else they ought to question their patent ? what ground can there be for that , when the original seal and patent is preserved , and is certainly conveyed down from age to age ? so i say it is as to us , gods grand charter of grace and mercy to the world through iesus christ , was sealed by divine miracles at the delivery of it to the world ; the original patent , viz. the scriptures , wherein this charter is contained , is conveyed in a most certain manner to us ; to this patent the seal is annexed , and in it are contained those undoubted miracles which were wrought in confirmation of it , so that a new sealing of this patent is wholly needless , unless we had some cause of suspicion that the original patent it self were lost , or the first sealing was not true . if the latt●r , then christian religion is not true , if the miracles wrought for confirmation of it were false , because the truth of it depends so much on the verity and divinity of the miracles which were then wrought . if the first be suspected , viz. the certain conveyance of the patent , viz. the scriptures , some certain grounds of such a suspicion must be discovered in a matter of so great moment , especially when the great and many societies of the christian world do all consent unanimously in the contrary . nay it is impossible that any rational man can conc●ive that the patent which we now rely upon , is supposititious or corrupted in any of those things which are of concernment to the christian world ; and that on these accounts . . from the watchfulness of divine provid●nce for the good of mankind . can we conceive that there is a god who rules and takes care of the world , and who to manifest his signal love to mankind , should not only grant a patent of mercy to the world by his son christ , and then sealed it by divine miracles , and in order to the certain conveyance of it to the world , caused it by persons imployed by himself to be record●d in a language fittest for its dispersing up and down the world ( all which i here suppose ) can we i say conceive that this god should so far have cast off his care of the world and the good of mankind , which was the original ground of the grant it self , as to suffer any wicked men , or malignant spirits to corrupt or alter any of those terms in it , on which mens eternal salvation depends ; much less wholly to suppress and destroy it , and to send forth one that is counterfeit and supposititious instead of it , and which should not be discovered by the christians of that age wherein that corrupt copy was set forth , nor by any of the most learned and inquisitive christians ever since . they who can give any the least entertainment to so wild , absurd , and irrational an imagination , are so far from reason , that they are in good disposition to atheism ; and next to the suspecting the scriptures to be corrupted , they may rationally susp●ct there is no such thing as a god and providence in the world ; or that the world is governed by a spirit most malignant and envious of the good of mankind . which is a suspicion only becoming those heathens ( among whom it was very frequent ) who worshipped the devils instead of gods. . because of the general dispersion of copies in the world upon the first publishing of them . we cannot otherwise co●ceive , but that records containing so weighty and important things , would be transcribed by all those churches which believed the truth of the things contained in them . we see how far curiosity will carry men as to the care of transcribing antient mss. of old authors , which contain only some history of things past that are of no great concernment to us : can we then imagine those who ventured estates and lives upon the truth of the things revealed in scripture , would not be very careful to preserve the authentick instrument whereby they are revealed in a certain way to the whole world ? and besides this , for a long time the originals themselves of the apostolical writings were preserved in the church ; which makes tertullian in his time appeal to them . age jam qui voles curiositatem melius exercere in negotio salutis tuae ; percurre ecclesias apostolicas , apud quasipsae adhuc cathedrae apostolorum suis locis praesidentur , apud quas ipsae authenticae corum literae recitantur , sonantes vocem , & representantes faciem uniuscujusque . now how was it possible that in that time the scriptures could be corrupted , when in some of the churches the original writings of the apostles were preserved in a continual succession of persons from the apostles themselves ; and from these originals so many copies were transcribed , as were conveyed almost all the world over , through the large spread of the christian churches at that time ? and therefore it is impossible to conceive that a copy should be corrupted in one church , when it would so speedily be discovered by another ; especially considering these three circumstances . . the innumerable multitude of copies wh ch would speedily be taken , both considering the moment of the thing , and the easiness of doing it ; god , probably for that very end , not loading the world with pand●cts and codes of his laws , but contriving the whole instrument of mans salvation in so narrow a compass , that it might be easily preserved and transcribed by such who were passionate admirers of the scriptures . . the great number of learned and inquisitive men who soon sprung up in the christian church ; whose great care was to explain and vindicate the sacred scriptures ; can we then think that all these watch-men should be asleep together when the ●vil one came to sow his tares , which it is most unreasonable to imagine , when in the writings of all these learned men , which were very many and voluminous , so much of the scripture was inserted , that had there been corruption in the copies themselves , yet comparing them with those writings , the corruptions would be soon discovered ? . the great ven●ration which all christians had of the scripture ; that they placed the hopes of their eternal happiness , upon the truth of the things contained in the scriptures : can we then think these would suffer any material alteration to creep into these records without their observing and discovering it ? can we now think when all persons are so exceeding careful of their deeds , and the records whereon their estates depend , that the christians who valued not this world in comparison of that to come , should suffer the magna charta of that to be lost , corrupted , or imbezzeled away ? especially considering what care and industry was used by many primitive christians to compare copies together , as is evident in pantaenus , who brought the hebrew copy of matthew out of the indies to alexandria , as eusebius tells us in pamphilus , and the library he errected at caesar●a , but especially in origens admirable hexapla , which were mainly intended for this end . . it is impossible to conceive a corruption of the copy of the scriptures ; because of the great differences which were all along the several ages of the church , between those who acknowledged the scriptures to be divine . so that if one party of them had foisted in or taken out any thing , another party was ready to take notice of it , and would be sure to tell the world of it . and this might be one great reason , why god in his wise providence might permit such an increase of heresies in the infancy of the church , viz. that thereby christians might be forced to stand upon their guard , and to have a special eye to the scriptures , which were alwayes the great eye-sores of hereticks . and from this great wariness of the church it was that some of the epistles were so long abroad before they found general entertainment in all the churches of christ , because in those epistles which were doubted for some t●me , there were some passages which seemed to favour some of the heresies then abroad ; but when upon severe enquiry they are found to be what they pretended , they were received in all the christian churches . . because of the agreement between the old t●stament and the new : the prophesies of the old testament appear with their full accomplishment in the new which we have ; so that it is impossible to think the new should be corrupted unless the old were too , which is most unreasonable to imagine , when the iews who have been the great conservators of the old testament , have been all along the most inveterate enemies of the christians : so that we cannot at all conceive it possible that any material corruptions or alterations should creep into the scriptures , much less that the true copy should be lost and a new one forged . supposing then that we have the same authentick records preserved and handed down to us by the care of all christian churches , which were written in the first ages of the church of christ : what necessity can we imagine that god should work new miracles to confirm that d●ctrine which is conveyed down in a certain uninterrupted way to us , as being se●led by miracles undoubtedly divine in the first promulgation and penning of it ? and this is the first reason , why the truth of the scriptures need not now be sealed by new miracles . . another , may be because god in the scripture hath appointed other things to continue in his church to be as seals to his people of the truth of the things contained in scriptures . such are outwardly , the sacraments of the gospel , baptism and the lords supper , which are set apart to be as seals to confirm the truth of the covenant on gods part towards us in reference to the great promises contained in it , in reference to pardon of sin , and the ground of our acceptance with god by iesus christ : and inwardly god hath promised his spirit to be as a witness within them , that by its working and strengthning grace in the hearts of believers , it may confirm to them the truth of the records of scripture when they finde the counter part of them written in their hearts by the singer of the spirit of god. it cannot then be with any reason at all supposed , that when a divine testimony is already confirmed by miracles undoubtedly divine , that new miracles should be wrought in the church to assure us of the truth of it . so chrysostome fully expresseth himself concerning miracles , speaking of the first ages of the christian church : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . miracles were very useful then and not at all useful now ; for now we manifest the truth of what we speak from the sacred scriptures , and the miracles wrought in confirmation of them . which that excellent author there fully manifests in a discourse on this subject , why miracles were necessary in the beginning of the christian church , and are not now . to the same purpose st. austin speaks where he discourseth of the truth of religion . accepimus majores nostros visibilia miracula secutos esse ; per quos id actum est ut necessaria non essent posteris ; because the world believed by the miracles which were wrought at the first preaching of the gospel , therefore miracles are no longer necessary . for we cannot conceive how the world should be at first induced to believe without manifest and uncontrouled miracles . for as chrysostome speaks , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . it was the greatest miracle of all , if the world should believe without miracles . which the poet dante 's hath well expressed in the twenty fourth canto of paradise . for when the apostle is there brought in , asking the poet upon what account he took the scriptures of the old and new testament to be the word of god ; his answer is , probatio quae verum hoc mihi recludit , sunt opera , quae secuta sunt , ad quae natura non candefecit ferrum unquam aut percussit incudem . i. e. the evidence of that is the divine power of miracles which was in those who delivered these things to the world . and when the apostle catechiseth him further , how he knew those miracles were such as they pretend to be , viz. that they were true and divine ; his answer is , si orbis terrae sese convertit ad christianismum , inquiebam ego , sine miraculis : hoc unum est tale , ut reliqua non sint ejus cente sima pars . i. e. if the world should be converted to the christian faith without miracles , this would be so great a miracle , that others were not to be compared with it . i conclude this then , with that known saying of st. austin ; quisquis adhuc prodigia , ut credat , inquirit , magnum est ipse prodigium qui mundo credente non credit . he that seeks for miracles still to induce him to faith , when the world is converted to the christian faith , he needs not seek for prodigies abroad ; he wants only a looking glass to discover one . for as he goes on , unde temporibus erudit is & omne quod fieri non potest respuentibus , sine ullis miraculis nimium mirabiliter incredibiliter credidit mundus ? whence came it to pass that in so learned and wary an age as that was which the apostles preached in , the world without miracles should be brought to believe things so strangely incredible as those were which christ and his apostles preached ? so that by this it appears that the intention of miracles was to confirm a divine testimony to the world , and to make that appear credible which otherwise would have seemed incredible ; but to what end now , when this divine testimony is believed in the world , should miracles be continued among those who believe the doctrine to be divine , the miracles wrought for the confirmation of it to have been true , and the scriptures which contain both , to be the undoubted word of god ? to what purpose then the huge outery of miracles in the roman church is , hard to conceive , unless it be to make it appear how ambitions that church is of being called by the name of him whose coming is after the working of satan , with all power and signs and lying wonders , and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish , because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved . for had they received the love of the truth of the gospel , they would have believed it on the account of those miracles and signs and wonders which were wrought for the confirmation of it , by christ and his apostles ; and not have gone about by their juglings and impostures in stead of bringing men to believe the gospel , to make them question the truth of the first miracles when they see so many counterfeits ; had we not great assurance the apostles were men of other designs and interests then popish priests are , and that there is not now any such necessity of miracles , as there was then when a divine testimony revealing the truth of christian religion was confirmed by them ? those miracles cannot be divine , which are done now for the confirmation of any thing contrary to that divine testimony , which is confirmed by uncontrouled divine miracles . the case is not the same now which was before the coming of christ ; for then though the law of moses was confirmed by miracles ; yet though the doctrine of christ did null the obligation of that law , the miracles of christ were to be looked on as divine , because god did not intend the ceremonial law to be perpetual ; and there were many prophesies which could not have their accomplishment but under a new state : but now under the gospel , god hath declared this to be the last revelation of his mind and will to the world by his son , that now the prophesies of the old testament are accomplished , and the prophesies of the new respect only the various conditions of the christian church , without any the least intimation of any further revelation of gods mind and will to the world : so that now the scriptures are our adaequate rule of faith , and that according to which we are to judge all pretenders to inspiration or miracles . and according to this rule we are to proceed in any thing which is propounded to us to believe by any persons , upon any pretences whatsoever . under the law after the establishment of the law its self by the miracles of moses , the rule of judging all pretenders to miracles was by the worship of the true god. if there arise among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams , and giveth thee a sign , or a wonder , and the sign or the wonder come to pass , whereof he spake to thee , saying , let us go after other gods ( which thou hast not known ) and let us serve them : thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet , or that dreamer of dreams : for the lord your god proveth you to know whether you love the lord your god with all your heart , and with all your soul. whereby it is plain that after the true doctrine is confirmed by divine miracles , god may give the devil or false prophets power to work if not real miracles , yet such as men cannot judge by the things themselves whether they be real or no ; and this god may do for the tryal of means faith , whether they will forsake the true doctrine confirmed by greater miracles for the sake of such doctrines which are contrary thereto , and are confirmed by false prophets by signs and wonders . now in this case our rule of tryal must not be so much the wonders considered in themselves , whether real or no , as the comparing them with the miracles which were wrought in confirmation of that doctrine , which is contrary to this which these wonders tend to the proving of . therefore gods people under the law were to examine the scope and drift of the miracles ; if they were intended to bring them to idolatry , whatever they were , they were not to hearken to those who did them . so now under the gospel , as the worship of the true god was then the standard whereby to judge of miracles by the law of moses , so the worship of the true god through iesus christ , and by the doctrine revealed by him , is the standard whereby we ought to judge of all pretenders to work miracles . so that let the miracles be what they will , if they contradict that doctrine which christ revealed to the world , we are to look upon them as only tryals of our faith in christ , to see whether we love him with our whole hearts or no. and therefore i think it needless to examine all the particulars of lipsius his relations of miracles wrought by his diva virgo hallensis and asprecollis ; for if i see , that their intention and scope is to set up the worship of daemons , or a middle sort of deities between god and us , which the scripture is ignorant of , on that very account i am bound to reject them all . although i think it very possible to find out the difference between true miracles and them in the manner and circumstances of their operation ; but this , as it is of more curiosity , so of less necessity ; for if the doctrine of the scriptures was confirmed by miracles infinitely above these , i am bound to adhere to that , and not to believe any other doctrine though an angel from heaven should preach it , much less , although some popish priests may boast much of miracles to confirm a doctrine opposite to the gospel : which i know not how far god may in judgement give those images power to work , or others faith to believe , because they would not receive the truth in the love of it : and these are now those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 lying wonders which the scripture forewarns us that we should not believe , viz. such as lead men to the belief of lyes , or of doctrines contrary to that of the gospel of iesus christ. where miracles are true and divine , there the effects which follow them upon the minds of those who believe them , are true and divine , i. e. the effect of believing of them is , the drawing of men from sin unto god. this the primitive christians insisted much upon , as an undoubted evidence that the miracles of christ were wrought by a divine power , because the effect which followed them , was the work of conversion of souls from sin and idols to god and christ , and all true piety and vertue . as the effect of the miracles of moses was the drawing a people off from superstition and idolatry to the worship of the true god ; so the effect which followed the belief of the miracles of christ in the world was the purging mens souls from all sin and wickedness to make them new creatures , and to live in all exactness and holiness of conversation . and thereby origen discovers the great difference between the miracles of christ and antichrist , that the intent of all antichrists wonders was to bring men 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the deceivableness of unrighteousness whereby to destroy them ; but the intent of the miracles of christ was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not the deceiving but the saving of the souls . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; who can with any probability say that reformation of life and dayly progress from evil to good should be the effect of meer deceit ? and therefore he saith , christ told his disciples that they should do greater works then he had done ; because by their preaching and miracles , the eyes of blind souls are opened , and the ears of such as were deaf to all goodness are opened so far as to hearken to the precepts and promises of the gospel : and the feet of those who were lame in their inward man , are so healed as to delight to run in the way of gods commandments . now is it possible that these should be the effects of any evil spirit ? but on the contrary we see the effects of all impostures and pretended miracles wrought by diabolical power was to bring men off from god to sin , and to dissolve that strict obligation to duty which was laid upon men by the gospel of christ. thus it was in that early ape of the apostles , simon magus , who far out-went apollonius tyaneus or any other heathen in his pretended miracles , according to the report which is given of him by the primitive christians ; but we see the intent of his miracles was to raise an admiration of himself , and to bring men off from all holiness of conversation , by afferting among other damnable heresies , that god did not at all regard what men did , but only what they believed : wherein the gnosticks were his followers . now when miracles are wrought to be patrons of sin , we may easily know from whom they come . those miracles are wrought by a divine power which tend to the overthrow of the kingdom of satan in the world . this is evident from hence , because all such things as are out of mans power to effect , must either be done by a power divine or diabolical : for as our saviour argues , every kingdom divided against its self is brought to desolation , and every city or house divided against its self cannot stand ; and if satan cast out satan , he is divided against himself : how shall then his kingdom stand ? now christ by his miracles did not only dispossess satan out of mens bodyes , but out of his temples too , as hath been shewn already . and besides the doctrine of christ which was confirmed by those miracles , was in every thing directly contrary to the devils design in the world . for , . the devils design was to conceal himself among those who worshipped him ; the design of the gospel was to discover him whom the gentiles worshipped , to be an evil and malignant spirit , that designed nothing but their ruine . now it appears in the whole history of gentilism , the grand mystery of state which the devil used among the heathens , was to make himself to be ●●en and worshipp●d for god , and to make them believ● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●●ns were very good and benigne spirits ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●●●onists and other philosopher●●o ●o much 〈◊〉 against the primiti●● christians , when th●● 〈◊〉 their daemons to be nothing ●he but in●●●al and wicked spirits which sought the destruction of souls . . the devils great design was to draw men to the practice of the greatest wickedness under a pretence of religion ; as is very observable in all the heathen mysteries , which the more recondite and hidden they were , the greater wickedness lay at the bottom of them , and so were to purpose mysteries of iniquity ; but now the design of the gospel was to promote the greatest purity both of heart and life ; there being in no other religion in the world , either such incomparable precepts of holiness , or such incouraging promises to the practice of it ( from eternal life hereafter as the reward , and the assistance of gods spirit to help men here ) or such prevailing motives to perswade men to it , from the love of god in christ to the world , the undertakings of christ for us in his death and sufferings , the excellent pattern we have to follow in our saviours own example ; now these things make it plain that the design of christ and the devil are diametrically opposite to each other . . the design of the devil is to set god and mankind at the greatest distance from each other ; the design of christ in the gospel is to bring them nearer together . the devil first tempts to sin , and then for sin ; he makes men presume to sin , and to despair because they have sinned . christ first keeps men from sin by his precepts and threatnings , and then supposing sin encourageth them to repent with hopes of pardon procured by himself for all truly penitent and believing sinners . thus in every thing the design of christ and the devil are contrary , which makes it evident that the miracles wrought in confirmation of the doctrine of christ could be from no evil spirit , and therefore must be from a truly divine power . true and divine miracles may be known and distinguished from false and diabolical , from the circumstances , or the manner of their operation . there were some peculiar signatures on the miracles of christ which are not to be found in any wrought by a power less then divine . which arnobius well expresseth in these words to the heathens ; potestis aliquem nobis designare , monstrare ex omnibus illis magis qui unquam fuere per secula , consimile aliquid christo millesima ex parte qui fecerit ? qui sine ulla vi car●●inum , sine herbarum aut graminum succis , sine ulla aliqua observatione sollicita sacrorum , libaminum , temporum ? — atqui constitit christum sine ullis adminiculis rerum , sine ullius ritus observatione , vel lege , omnia illa quae fecit , nominis sui possibilitate fecisse , & quod proprium , consentaneum , deo dignum fuerat vero , nihil nocens aut noxium , sed opiferum , sed salutare , sed auxiliaribus plenum bonis potestatis munificae liberalitate donasse ? he challengeth the heathens to produce any one of all their magicians who did the thousand part of what our saviour did : who made use of none of their magical rites and observations in what ever he did ; and what ever he did was meerly by his own power , and was withall most becoming god ; and most beneficial to the world . and thence he proceeds to answer the heathens about the miracles wrought by their gods , which fell short of those of christ in three main particulars , the manner of their working , and the number of them , and the quality of the things done . . the manner of their working ; what they did was with a great deal of pomp and ceremony ; what christ did , was with a word speaking , and sometimes without it by the touch of his garment : non inquiro , non exigo , saith he , quis deus , aut quo tempore , cui fuerit auxiliatus , aut quem fractum restituerit sanitati ; illud solum audire desidero , an sine ullius adjunctione materiae , i. e. medicaminis alicujus ad tactum morbos jusserit abhominibus evolare , imperaverit , fecerit , & emori valetudinum causam , & debilium corpora ad suas remeare naturas . omitting all other circumstances , name me , saith he , but which of your gods ever cured a disease without any adjoyned matter , some prescriptions or other ; or which of them ever commanded diseases out of bodies by their meer touch , and quite removed the cause of the distempers . aesculapius , he sayes , cured diseases , but in the way that ordinary physitians do by prescribing something , or other to be done by the patients . nulla autem virtus est medicaminibus amovere quae noceant ; beneficia ista rerum , non sunt curantium potestates . to cure diseases by prescriptions argues no power at all in the prescriber , but vertue in the medicine . . in the number of the persons cured : they were very few which were cured in the heathen temples ; christ cured whole multitudes , and that not in the revestryes of the temples where fraud and imposture might be easily suspected , but in the presence of the people who brought to him all manner of persons sick of all sorts of diseases which were cured by him ; and these so numerous , that the evangelist who records many of christs miracles which had been omitted by the others , yet tells us at last , the miracles of christ were so many that the whole world would not contain them . but now arnobius tells the heathens , quid prodest ostendere tinum aut alterum fortasse curatos , cum tot millibus subvenerit nemo , & plena sint omnia miserorum infeliciumque delubra ? what matter is it to shew one or two cured , when thousands lie continually in the temples perishing for want of cure ? yea such as did aesculapium ipsum precibus fatigare , & invitare miserrimis votis , that could not beg a cure of aesculapius with all their earnestness and importunity . . in the quality of the diseases cured ; the cures among the heathens were some slight things in comparison of those performed by christ ; the most acute , the most chronical , the most malignant of diseases cured by a touch , a word , a thought . a learned physition hath undertaken to make it evident from the circumstances of the story , and from the received principles among the most authentick physitians , that the diseases cured by our saviour were all incurable by the rules of physick ; if so , the greater the power of our saviour , who cured them with so much facility as he did . and he not only cured all diseases himself , but gave a power to others , who were not at all versed in matters of art and subtilty , that they should do miracles likewise , sine fucis & adminiculis , without any fraud or assistance : quid dicitis ô mentes incredulae , difficiles , durae ! alicuine mortalium iupiter ille capitolinus hujusmodi potestatem dedit ? when did ever the great iupiter capitolinus ever give a power of working miracles to any ; i do not say , saith he , of raising the dead , or curing the blind , or healing the lame , sed ut pustulam , reduviam , pupulam , aut vocis imperio aut manus contrectatione comprimeret : but to cure a wart , a pimple , any the most trivial thing , with a word speaking or the touch of the hand . upon this arnobius challengeth the most famous of all the heathen magicians , zoroastres , armenius , pamphilus , apollonius , damigero , dardanus , velus , iulianus and baebulus , or any other renowned magician to give power to any one to make the dumb to speak , the deaf to hear , the blind to see ; or bring life into a dead body . or if this be too hard , with all their magical rites and incantations but to do that , quod à rusticis christianis jussienibus factitatum est nudis , which ordinary christians do by their meer words : so great a difference was there between the highest that could be done by magick , and the least that was done by the name and power of christ. where miracles are truly divine , god makes it evident to all impartial judgements that the things do exceed all created power . for which purpose we are to observe , that though impostures and delusions may go far , the power of magicians further when god permits them ; yet when god works miracles to confirm a divine testimony he makes it evident that his power doth infinitely exceed them all . this is most conspicuous in the case of moses and our blessed saviour . first moses , he began to do some - miracles in the presence of pharaoh and the aegyptians , turning his rod into a serpent ; but we do not finde pharaoh at all amazed at it , but sends presently for the magicians to do the same , who did it ( whether really or only in appearance , is not material to our purpose ) , but aarons rod swallowed up theirs . the next time the waters are turned into blood by moses , the magicians they do so too . after this moses brings up frogs upon the land , so do the magicians . so that here now , is a plain and open contest in the presence of pharaoh and his people , between moses and the magicians , and they try for victory over each other ; so that if moses do no more then they , they would look upon him but as a magician ; but if moses do that which by the acknowledgement of these magicians themselves could be only by divine power , then it is demonstrably evident that his power was as far above the power of magick as god is above the devil . accordingly we finde it in the very next miracle in turning the dust into ciniphes , ( which we render ) lice , the magicians are non-plust , and give out saying in plain terms , this is the finger of god. and what greater acknowledgement can there be of divine power then the confession of those who seemed to contest with it , and to imitate it as much as possible ? after this we finde not the magicians offering to contest with moses , and in the plague of boyles we particularly read that they could not stand before moses . thus we see in the case of moses how evident it was that there was a power above all power of magick which did appear in moses . and so likewise in the case of our blessed saviour ; for although simon magus , apollonius or others might do some small things , or make some great shew and noise by what they did ; yet none of them ever came near the doing things of the same kind which our saviour did , curing the born blind , restoring the dead to life after four dayes , and so as to live a considerable time after ; or in the manner he did them , with a word , a touch , with that frequency and openness before his greatest enemies as well as followers , and in such an uncontrouled manner , that neither iews or heathens ever questioned the truth of them . and after all these , when he was laid in the grave after his crucifixion , exactly according to his own prediction , he rose again the third day , appeared frequently among his disciples for forty dayes together . after which , in their presence , he ascended up to heaven , and soon after , made good his promise to them , by sending his holy spirit upon them , by which they spake with tongues , wrought miracles , went up and down preaching the gospel of christ with great boldness , chearfulness , and constancy , and after undergoing a great deal of hardship in it , they sealed the truth of all they spake with their blood , laying down their lives to give witness to it . thus abundantly to the satisfaction of the minds of all good men hath god given the highest rational evidence of the truth of the doctrine which he hath revealed to the world . and thus i have finished the second part of my task , which concerned the rational evidence of the truth of divine revelation from the persons who were imployed to deliver gods mind to the world : and therein have , i hope , made it evident that both moses and the prophets , our saviour and his apostles did come with sufficient rational evidence to convince the world that they were persons immediately sent from god. book . iii. chap. i. of the being of god. the principles of all religion lie in the being of god and immortality of the soul : from them the necessity of a particular divine revelation rationally deduced ; the method laid down for proving the divine authority of the scriptures . why moses doth not prove the being of god , but suppose it . the notion of a deity very consonant to reason . of the nature of idea's , and particularly of the idea of god. how we can form an idea of an infinite being . how far such an idea argues existence . the great unreasonableness of atheism demonstrated . of the hypotheses of the aristotelian and epicurean atheists . the atheists pretences examined and refuted . of the nature of the arguments whereby we prove there is a god. of universal consent and the evidence of that to prove a deity and immortality of souls . of necessity of existence implyed in the notion of god , and how far that proves the being of god. the order of the world and usefulness of the parts of it , and especially of mans body an argument of a deity . some higher principle proved to be in the world then matter and motion . the nature of the soul , and possibility of its subsisting after death . strange appearances in nature not solvable by the power of imagination . having in the precedent book largely given a rational account of the grounds of our faith , as to the persons whom god imployes to reveal his mind to the world ; if we can now make it appear that those sacred records which we embrace as divinely inspired , contain in them nothing unworthy of so great a name , or unbecoming persons sent from god to deliver ; there will be nothing wanting to justifie our religion in point of reason to be true , and of revelation to be divine . for the scriptures themselves coming to us in the name of god , we are bound to believe them to be such as they pretend to be , unless we have ground to question the general foundations of all religion as uncertain , or this particular way of religion as not suitable to those general foundations . the foundations of all religion lie in two things ; that there is a god who rules the world , and that the souls of men are capable of subsisting after death ; for he that comes unto god , must believe that he is , and that he is a rewarder of them that seek him ; so that if these things be not supposed as most agreeable to humane reason , we cannot imagine upon what grounds mankind should embrace any way of religion at all . for if there be not a god whom i am to serve and obey , and if i have not a soul of an immortal nature , there can be no sufficient obligation to religion , nor motive inducing to it : for all obligation to obedience must suppose the existence of such a being which hath power to command me ; and by reason of the promis●uous scatterings of good and evil in this life , the motives engaging men to the practice of religion , must suppose the certainty of a future state. if these things be sure and the foundations of religion in general thereby firmly established , it will presently follow as a matter most agreeable to reason , that the god whom we are to serve should himself prescribe the way of his own worship ; and if the right of donation of that happiness which mens souls are capab●e of be alone in himself , that he alone should declare the termes on which it may be expected ; for man being a creature endued with a free principle of acting , which he is conscious to himself of , and therefore not being carried to his end by necessity of nature or external violence , without the concurrence of his own reason and choice , we must suppose this happiness to depend upon the performance of some conditions on mans part , whereby he may demonstrate that it is the matter of his free choice , and that he freely quits all other interests that he might obtain the enjoyment of it . which conditions to be performed being expressions of mans obedience towards god as his creator and governour , and of his gratitude for the tenders of so great a happiness which is the free gift of his maker , we cannot suppose any one to have power to prescribe these conditions , but he that hath power likewise to deprive the soul of her happiness upon non-performance , and that must be god himself . but in order to mans understanding his duty and his obligation to obedience , it is necessary that these conditions must not be locked up in the cabinet council of heaven , but mu●● be so far declared and revealed , that he may be fully acqua●ted with those terms which his happiness depends upon ; else his neglect of them would be excusable , and his misery unavoidable . had man indeed remained without offending his maker , he might still have stood in his favour upon the general terms of obedience due from the creature to his creator , and to all such particular precepts which should bear the impress of his makers will upon them , beside which , the whole volume of the creation without , and his own reason within would have been sufficient directors to him in the performance of his duty . but he abusing his liberty , and being thereby guilty of a●ostacy from god ( as is evident by a continued propensity to sin , and the strangeness between god and the souls of men ) a particular revelation is now become necessary , that mankind may thereby understand on what terms god will be pleased again , and by what means they may be restored into his favour . and lastly , it not agreeing with the free and communicative nature of divine goodness ( which was the first original of the worlds creation ) to suffer all mankind to perish in their own folly , we must suppose this way for mans recovery to be somewhere prescribed , and the revelation of it to be somewhere extant in the world . so that from the general principles of the existence of god and immortality of the soul , we have deduced by clear and evident reason the necessity of some particular divine revelation , as the standard and measure of religion . and according to these principles we must examine what ever pretends to be of d●vine revelation ; for it must be suitable to that divine nature from whom it is supposed to come , and it must be agreeable to the conditions of the souls of men ; and therefore that which carries with it the greatest evidence of divine revelation , is , a faithful representation of the state of the case between god and the souls of men , and a divine discovery of those wayes whereby mens souls may be fitted for eternal happiness . a divine revelation then must be faithful and true in all its narrations ; it must be excellent and becoming god in all its discoveries . and therefore all that can with any reason be desired for proof of the divine authority of the scriptures will lie in these three things . first , that the foundations of religion are of undoubted certainty , or that there ie a god , and that mens souls are immortal . secondly , that the scriptures do most faithfully relate the matters of greatest antiquity therein contained ( which do most concern the history of the breach between god and man. ) thirdly , that the scriptures are the only authentick records of those terms on which happiness may be expected in another world . i begin with the first of them , which concerns the existence of god and immortality of the soul ; both which seem to be supposed as general prolepses in the writings of moses , and as things so consonant to humane nature , that none to whom his writings should come could be supposed to question them . and therefore he spends no time in the operose proving of either of these , knowing to how little purpose his writings would be to such who denyed these first principles of all religion . but beside this there may be these accounts given , why these main foundations of all religion are no more insisted on in the first books of the scripture which contain the originals of the world . first , because these were in the time of the writing of them believed with an universal consent of mankind . in those more early dayes of the world , when the tradition of the first ages of it was more fresh and entire , it is scarce imaginable that men should question the being of a god , when the history of the flood and the propagation of the world after it by the sons of noah , and the burning of sodom and gomorrab were so fresh in their memories , as having been done so few generations before them . and by what remains of any history of other nations in those elder times men were so far from atheism , that polytheism and idolatry were the common practice of the world , as is most evident in all relations of the antient chaldeans , aegyptians , phaenicians , and other nations , who all supposed these two principles , as well as those who served the true god. and in all probability as men are apt to run from one extream to another , polytheism was the first occasion of atheism , and idolatry of irreligion . and thence we finde the first appearance of atheists to be in the most blind and superstitious age of greece , when the obscene poets had so debauched the common understandings of the people , as to make them believe such things concerning their gods which were so incongruous to humane nature , that all who had any sense of goodness left , could not but loath and abhor such deities . and therefore we finde all the flouts and jears of the reputed atheists among them , such as dionysius , diagoras , theodorus , euhemerus , messenius and others , were cast upon their venerable deities , which they so solemnly worshipped : who had been before as euhemerus plainly told them , poor mortal men , and those not of the best reputation neither : and therefore as the epicurean in tully well sayes , omnis eorum cultus esset in luctu , the most suitable devotion for them had been lamenting their death . now when these common deities were so much derided by intelligent men , and yet the order of the world seemed to tell them there was really a god , though those were none ; those who had philosophical wits , such as democritus and epicurus , set themselves to work to see if they could solve the phaenomena of nature without a deity , and therefore asserted the origine of the universe to be only by a fortuitous concourse of infinite little particles ; but herein they befooled themselves and their greedy followers , who were glad to be rid of those anxieties of mind which the thoughts of a deity and an immortal soul did cause within them . and although lucretius in a bravado tells us of his máster , that when mens minds were sunk under the burden of religion , humana ante oculos faede cum vita jaceret in terris oppressa gravi sub religione : primum graius homo mortalis tollere contr● est oculos ausus , primusque obsistere contrà . that epicurus was the first true gyant who durst encounter the gods , and if we believe him , overthrew them in open field ; quare religio pedibus subjecta vicissim obteritur , nos exaequat victoria caelo . yet cotta in tully reports the issue of this battel quite otherwise ; for although the greatest triumph in this victory had been only to become like the beasts that perish ; yet if we believe cotta , epicurus was so far from gaining any of his beloved case and pleasure by his sentiments , that never was school-boy more afraid of a rod , nor did any enemy more dread a conqueror , then epicurus did the thoughts of a god and death . nec quenquam vidi qui magis ea quae timenda esse negaret , timeret ; mortem dico & deos. so hard it is for an epicurean even after he hath prostituted his conscience , to silence it ; but ( whatever there be in the air ) there is an elactical power in conscience that will bear its self up notwithstanding the weight that is laid upon it . and yet after all the labours of epicurus , he knew it was to no purpose to endeavour to root out wholly the belief of a deity out of the world , because of the unanimous consent of the world in it ; and therefore he admits of it as a necessary prolepsis or anticip●tion of humane nature , quod in omnium animis deorum notionem impressisset ipsa natura , that nature its self had stamped a● idea of god upon the minds of men ; cum enim non instituto aliquo , aut more aut lege sit opinio constituta , manet at que ad unum omnium firma consensio , intelligi necesse est deos esse , quoniam insitas eorum , vel potius innatas cognitiones habeamus ; de quo autem omnium natura consentit , id verum esse necesse est , as velleius the epicurean argues . since the belief of a deity neither rise from custom nor was enacted by law , yet is unanimously assented to by all mankind ; it necessarily follows that there must be a deity , because the idea of it is so natural to us . if it were thus acknowledged in the philosophical age of greece , when men bent their wits to unsettle the belief of such things as tended to religion ; how much more might it be esteemed a general principle of humane nature in those elder times , when not so much as one dissenter appeared that we read of among the more antient nations ? but secondly , it was less needsul for moses to insist much on the proof a deity in his writings , when his very imployment and the history he wrote , was the greatest evidence that there was one . could any of them question , whether there were a god or no , who had heard his voyce at mount sinai , and had received a law from him , who had been present at so many miracles which were done by moses in aegypt and the wilderness ? what more evident demonstration of god could be desired , then those many unparalleld miracles , which were wrought among them ? and those who would not be convinced by them that there was a god , would certainly be convinced by nothing . thirdly , it was unsuitable to the purpose of moses to go about to prove any thing he delivered by the meer force of humane reason , because he writ as a person imployed by god ; and therefore by the arguments on which they were to believe his testimony in what ever he writ , they could not but believe there was a god that imployed him . and from hence it is that moses with so much m●jesty and authority begins the history of the creation with in the beginning god created the heaven and the earth . there could be no greater evidence that there was an infinitely wise , good , and powerful god , then that the universe was produced out of nothing by him , and what reason could there be to distrust his testimony who relates it , who manifested not only that there was a god , but that he was imployed by him , by the miracles which he wrought : so that all our former discourse concerning the evidences of divine revelation , are a most palpable demonstration of a deity ; for if there be such a power which can alter the course of nature when he please , the being wherein it is , must needs be infinite ; which is the same which we mean by god. but yet for those whose minds are so coy and squeamish as to any thing of divine revelation , we want not sufficient evidence in point of reason to prove to them the existence of a deity . in order to which , i shall clear these following propositions . . that the true notion of a deity is most agreeable to the faculties of mens souls , and most consonant to reason and the light of nature . . that those who will not believe that there is a god , do believe other things on far less reason , and must by their own principles deny some things which are apparently true . . that we have as certain evidence that there is a god , as it is possible for us to have , considering his nature . that the true notion of god is most agreeable to the faculties of mens souls , and most consonant to reason and the light of nature : i. e. that the idea of god , ( or that which we conceive in our minds when we think of god ) is so far from being any wayes repugnant to any principle of reason within us , that it is hard to pitch on any other notion which hath sewer entanglements in it , to a mind so far metaphysical as to abstract from sense and prejudice . i grant it very difficult , nay impossible , for those to have any true setled notion of a god , who search for an idea of him in their fancies , and were never conscious to themselves of any higher faculty in their souls then meer imagination . such may have imaginem iovis or galeatae minerva , as he in tully speaks , some idea of an idol in their minds , but none of a true god. for we may as soon come by the sight of colours to understand the nature of sounds , as by any corporal phantasmes come to have a true idea of god. and although sometimes an idea be taken for that impression of things which is lodged in the p hantasie , yet here we take it in a more general sense , as it contains the representation of any thing in the mind ; as it is commonly said in the schools , that the divine intellect doth understand things by their idea's , which are nothing else but the things themselves as they are objectively represented to the understanding . so that an idea in its general sense in which we take it , is nothing else but the objective being of a thing as it terminates the understanding ; and is the form of the act of intellection : that which is then immediately represented to the mind in its perception of things , is the idea or notion of it . now such an idea as this is , may be either true or false . for better understanding of which we must consider that an idea in the soul may be considered two wayes . . as it is a mode of cogitation or the act of the soul apprehending an object ; now this way no idea can be false ; for as it is an act of the mind , every idea hath its truth ; for whether i imagine a golden mountain or another , it matters not here ; for the one idea is as true as the other , considering it meerly as an act of the mind . for the mind is as really imployed about the one as the other ; as the will is about an object whether it be feasible or no. . the idea may be considered in regard of its objective reality , or as it represents some outward object ; now the truth or falshood of the idea lies in the understanding passing judgement concerning the outward object as existent which doth correspond to the idea which is in the mind . and the proneness of the understandings error in this case ariseth from the different nature of those things which are represented to the mind ; for some of them are general and abstracted things , and do not at all suppose existence , as the nature of truth , of a being , of cogitation ; other idea's depend upon existence supposed , as the idea of the sun , which i apprehend in my mind because i have seen it ; but besides these there are other idea's in the mind which the understanding forms within its self by its own power as it is a principle of cogitation ; such are those wh●ch are called entiarationis , and have no other existence at all but only in the understanding , as chimaera's , centaures , &c. now as to these , we are to observe , that although the composition of these things together by the understanding , be that which makes these idea's to be only fictitious , yet the understanding would not be able to compound such things , were they not severally represented to the mind ; as unless we had known what a horse and a man had been , our minds could not have conjoyned them together in its apprehension . so that in these which are the most fictitious idea's , we see , that although the idea its self be a meer creature of the understanding , yet the mind could not form such an idea but upon praeexistent matter , and some objective reality must be supposed in order to the intellectual conception of these anomalous entityes . by which we see that that strange kind of omnipotency which some have attributed to the understanding , lies not in a power of conceiving things wholly impossible , or fancying idea's of absolute non-entityes , but in a kind of african copulation of such species of things together , which in nature seem wholly incompossible , ( as the schools speak ) or have no congruity at all in the order of the universe . so that had there never been any such things in the world as matter and motion , it is very hard to conceive , how the understanding could have formed within its self the variety of the species of such things , which are the results of those two grand principles of the universe . but because it is so impossible for minds not very contemplative and metaphysical to abstract from matter , thence it is we are apt to imagine such a power in the understanding , whereby it may form idea's of such things which have no objective reality at all . i grant those we call entia rationis have no external reality as they are such ; but yet i say , the existence of matter in the world , and the corporeal phantasmes of outward beings , are the foundation of the souls conception of those entityes , which have no existence beyond the humane intellect . the great enquiry then is , how far this plastick power of the understanding , may extend its self in its forming an idea of god. that there is such a one in the minds of men , is evident to every one that consults his own faculties , and enquires of them , whether they cannot apprehend a setled and consistent notion of a being which is absolutely perfect . for that is all we understand by the idea of god ; not that there is any such connate idea in the soul , in the sense which connate idea's are commonly understood ; but that there is a faculty in the soul , whereby upon the free use of reason it can form within its self a setled notion of such a being , which is as perfect as it is possible for us to conceive a being to be . if any difficulty be made concerning the forming such a notion in ones mind , let the person who scruples it , only enquire of himself , whether he judges all beings in the world equal ; whether a mushrome hath in it all the perfections which man hath ? which i suppose none , who have a minde within them can question . if then it be granted that man hath some perfections in him above inferiour creatures , it will be no matter of difficulty to shew wherein man exceeds other inferiour beings . for is not life a greater perfection then the want of it ? is not reason and knowledge , a perfection above sense ? and so let us proceed to those things , wherein one man differs from another ; for it is evident , that all men are not of equal accomplishments ; is not then forecast and prudence above incogitancy and folly ? is not the knowledge of causes of things better then stupidity and ignorance ? is not beneficence and liberality more noble then parsimony and narrowness of spirit ? is not true goodness far above debauchery and intemperance ? and are not all these far better , when they are joyned with such a power as hath no limits or bounds at all ? now then is it not possible for a mans mind , proceeding in its ordinary way of intellection , to form a notion of such a being , which hath wisdom , goodness and power in it , without any limits and bounds at all , or any of those abatements which any of these perfections are found with in man ? for it is unconceivable , that the mind of man can attribute to its self absolute perfection , when it cannot but see its own defects in those things it excells other creatures in ; and supposing it had power , goodness , and knowledge far above what it hath ; yet it cannot but say , that these perfections would be greater if it were alwayes possessed of them , and it were impossible that it should ever cease to be , or not have been . so that now joyning infinite goodness , wisdom and power , with eternity and necessity of existence , the result is the notion of a being absolutely perfect . so that now who ever questions the suitableness of such a notion or idea to the faculties of mens souls , must question the truth of his own faculties , and the method they proceed in , in their clearest conceptions and ratioeinations . and the mind of man may as well question the truth of any idea it hath within its self , as of this we now discourse of . nay it may be far sooner puzled in any of those idea's , which are transmitted into the phantasie by the impressions of corporeal beings upon the organs of sense , then in this more intellectual and abstracted idea , which depends wholly upon the mind . all the difficulty now is , whether this idea of such an absolutely perfect being , be any thing else but the understandings plastick power , whereby it can unite all these perfections together in one conception , or doth it necessarily imply , that there must be such a being really existent , or else i could never have formed such a setled notion of him in my mind ? to this i answer , . it is as much as i desire at present , that the forming of such an idea in the mind , is as suitable and agreeable to our faculties , as the forming the conception of any other being in the world . for hereby it is most evident , that the notion of a god imports nothing incongruous to reason , or repugnant to the faculties of our souls ; but that the mind will form as setled and clear a notion of god , as of any thing which in the judgement of epicurus , his infallible senses did the most assure him of . so that there can be no shadow of a pretence , why any should reject the being of a god , because of the impossibility to conceive any such being as god is . if to this it be objected , that such things are implyed in this idea , which make it unconceivable , in that all the perfections in this being are supposed to be infinite , and infinity transcends our capacity of apprehension . to this i answer , . that those who deny infinity in god , must necessarily attribute it to something else , as to infinite space , infinity of successions of ages and persons , if the world were eternal ; and therefore it is most unreasonable to reject any notion for that , which it is impossible , but if i deny that , i must attribute it to some thing else , to whose idea it is far less proper then it is to gods. . least i should rather seek to avoid the argument then to satisfie it , i say , that though infinite as infinite cannot be comprehended , yet we may clearly and distinctly apprehend a being to be of that nature , that no limits can be assigned to it , as to its power or presence ; which is as much as to understand it to be infinite . the ratio formalis of infinity may not be understood clearly and distinctly , but yet the being which is infinite may be . infinity its self cannot be on this account , because how ever positive we apprehend it , yet we alwayes apprehend it in a negative way , because we conceive it by denying all limitations and bounds to it ; but the being which is infinite we apprehend in a positive manner , although not adaequately , because we cannot comprehend all which is in it . as we may clearly and distinctly see the sea , though we cannot discover the bounds of it ; so may we clearly and distinctly apprehend some perfections of god when we fix our minds on them , although we are not able to grasp them all together in our narrow and confined intellects , because they are infinite . thus we see that gods infinity doth not at all abate the clearness and distinctness of the notion which we have of god ; so that though the perfections of god are without bounds or limits , yet it bears no repugnancy at all to mens natural faculties to have a settled idea of a being infinitely perfect in their minds . to the question i answer , it seems highly probable and far more consonant to reason then the contrary , that this idea of god upon the mind of man , is no meerly fictitious idea , but that it is really imprinted there by that god whose idea it is , and therefore doth suppose a reality in the thing correspondent to that objective reality which is in the understanding . for although i am not so well satisfied that the meer objective reality of the idea of god doth exceed the efficiency of the mind , as that idea is nakedly considered in its self , because of the unlimited power of the understanding in conception : yet i say , considering that idea in all the circumstances of it , it seems highly probable that it is no meer ens rationis , or figment of the understanding ; and that will appear on these considerations . . this idea is of such a nature as could not be formed from the understandings consideration of any corporeal phantasms . because whatever hath any thing of matter in it , involves of necessity many imperfections along with it ; for every part of matter is divisible into more parts . now it is a thing evident to natural light , that it is a greater perfection not to be divisible then to be so . besides , corporeal phantasms are so far from helping us . in forming this idea , that they alone hinder us from a distinct conception of it , while we attend to them ; because these bear no proportion at all to such a being . so that this idea however must be a pure act of intellection , and therefore supposing there were no other faculty in man but imagination , it would bear the greatest repugnancy to our conceptions , and it would be according to the principles of epicurus and some modern philosophers , a thing wholly impossible to form an idea of god , unless with epicurus we imagine him to be corporeal , which is to say he is no god. which was the reason that tully said epicurus did only nomine poncre , re tollere deos , because such a notion of god is repugnant to natural light . so that if this idea doth wholly abstract from corporeal phantasms , it thereby appears that there is a higher faculty in mans soul then meer imagination , and it is hardly conceivable whence a faculty which thus extends its self to an infinite object , should come but from an infinite being : especially if we consider , . that the understanding in forming this idea of god , doth not by distinct acts , first collect one perfection , and then another , and at last unite these together , but the simplicity and unity of all these perfections is as necessarily conceived as any of them . granting then that the understanding by the observing of several perfections in the world , might be able to abstract these severally from each being wherein they were , yet whence should the idea of the unity and inseparability of all these perfections come ? the mind may , it is true , knit some things together in fictitious idea's , but then those are so far from unity with each other , that in themselves they speak mutual repugnancy to one another , which makes them proper entia rationis ; but these several perfections are so far from speaking repugnancy to each other , that the unity and inseparability of them is as necessary to the forming of this idea , as any other perfection whatsoever . so that from hence it appears that the consideration of the perfections which are in the creatures , is only an occasion given to the mind to help it in its idea of god , and not that the idea its self depends upon those perfections as the causes of it ; as in the clearest mathematical truths the manner of demonstration may be necessary to help the understanding to its clearer assent , though the things in themselves be undoubtedly true . for all minds are not equally capable of the same truths ; some are of quicker apprehension then others are ; now although to slower apprehensions a more particular way of demonstrating things be necessary , yet the truths in themselves are equal , though they have not equal evidence to several persons . . it appears that this is no meer fictitious idea from the uniformity of it in all persons who have freed themselves from the entanglements of corporeal phantasms . those we call entia rationis , we find by experienee in our minds , that they are formed ad placitum ; we may imagine them as many wayes as we please ; but we see it is quite otherwise in this idea of god ; for in those attributes or perfections which by the light of nature we attribute to god , there is an uniform consent in all those who have devested their minds of corporeal phantasms in their conceptions of god. for while men have agreed that the object of their idea is a being absolutely perfect , there hath been no dissent in the perfections which have been attributed to it ; none have questioned but infinite wisdom , goodness , and power , joyned with necessity of existence , have been all implyed in this idea . so that it is scarce p●ssible to instance in any one idea , no not of those things which are most obvious to our senses , wherein there hath been so great an uniformity of mens conceptions as in this idea of god. and the most gross corporeal idea of the most sensible matter hath been more lyable to heats and disputes among philosophers , then this idea of a being infinite and purely spiritual . which strongly proves my present proposition , that this idea of god is very consonant to natural light ; for it is hardly conceivable that there should be so universal a consent of minds in this idea , were it not a natural result from the free use of our reason and faculties . and that which adds further weight t● this argument , is , that although infinity be so necessarily implyed in this idea of god , yet men do not attribute all kind of infinite things to god ; for there being conceivable infinite number , infinite longitude , as well as infinite power and knowledge , our minds readily attribute the latter to god , and as readily abstract the other from his nature , which is an argument this idea is not fictitious , but argues reality in the thing correspondent to our conception of it . so much may suffice to clear the first proposition , viz. that the notion of a god is very suitable to the faculties of mens souls , and to that light of nature which they proceed by in forming the conceptions of things . those who deny that there is a god , do assert other things on far less evidence of reason , and must by their own principles deny some things which are apparently true . one would expect that such persons who are apt to condemn the whole world of folly in believing the truth of religion , and would fain be admired as men of a deeper reach , and greater wit and sagacity then others , would when they have exploded a deity , at least give us some more rational and consistent account of things , then we can give that there is a god. but on the contrary we find the reasons on which they reject a deity so lamentably weak , and so easily retorted upon themselves , and the hypotheses they substitute instead of a deity so precarious , obscure and uncertain , that we need no other argument to evince the reasonableness of religion , then from the manifest folly as well as impiety of those who oppose it . which we shall make evident by these two things . . that while they deny a deity , they assert other things on far less reason . . that by those principles on which they deny a deity , they must deny some things which are apparently true . . that they assert some things on far less reason then we do that there is a god. for if there be not an infinitely powerful god who produced the world out of nothing , it must necessarily follow according to the different principles of the aristotelian and epicurean atheists , that either the world was as it is from all eternity , or else that it was at first made by the fortuitous concourse of atoms . now i appeal to the reason of any person who hath the free use of it , whether either of these two hypotheses , urged with the same or greater difficulties , &c. be not far more weakly proved , then the existence of a deity is , or the production of the world by him . . they run themselves into the same difficulties which they would avoid in the belief of a deity ; and nothing can be a greater evidence of an intangled mind then this is : to deny a thing because of some difficulty in it , and instead of it to assert another thing which is chargeable with the very same difficulty in a higher degree . thus when they reject a deity , because they cannot understand what infinity means ; both these hypotheses are lyable to the same intricacy in apprehending the nature of something infinite . for according to the epicureans , there must be an infinite space , and what greater ease to the mind is there in conceiving an idea of that then of an infinite being . and if the world be eternal , there must have been past an infinite succession of ages , and is not the understanding as easily lost in this , as in an eternal being which created the world ? for if the course of generations in the world had no beginning at all , ( which necessarily follows upon the eternity of the world ) then an infinite number of successions are already past , and if past then at an end , and so we find an infinite which hath had an end , which is a consequence becoming one who avoids the belief of a deity , because infinity is an unconceivable thing . besides if the number of generations hath been infinite , these two consequences will unavoidably follow , which the reason of any one but an atheist would startle at , that one infinite may be greater then another , and that the part is equal to the whole . for let him fix where he please in the course of generations , i demand whether in the great-grand-fathers time the succession of generations was finite or infinite ; if finite , then it had a beginning ; and so the world not eternal ; if infinite , then i ask , whether there were not a longer succession of generations in the time of his great grand-children , and so there must be a number greater then that which was infinite ; for the former succession was infinite , and this hath more generations in it then that had ; but if it be said that they were equal , because both infinite , then the succession of generations to the grand-father , being but a part of that which extends to his grand-children and posterity , the part is equal to the whole . and is not now the notion of an infinite being enough to stumble an atheists reason , when it can so nimbly leap over so apparent contradictions ? i insist not on this as an evident demonstration to prove a deity , which possibly it may not amount to , because it may only demonstrate the impossibility of our understandings comprehending the nature of infinity . but however it doth most evidently demonstrate the folly and unreasonableness of the atheist who rejects the being of god on the account of his infinity , when his understanding is more lost in apprehending an infinite succession of generations which follows from his supposition of the eternity of the world . if then it be impossible , as it is , upon any principles whatsoever , to avoid the conception of somewhat infinite and eternal , either matter or space , or some being , let any one appeal to his own reason whether it be not more agreeable to that , to attribute these perfections to such a being to whose idea they necessarily belong , then to attribute them to this world in whose conception they are not at all implyed ; but on the contrary they do far more puzzle our understandings then when we conceive them to be in god. if somewhat must have a continued duration , and be of an unbounded nature , how much more rational is it to conceive wisdom , power , and goodness to be conjoyned with eternity and infinity , then to bestow these attributes upon an empty space , or upon dull and unactive matter ? it cannot be reason then , but some more base and unworthy principle which makes the atheist question the being of god , because his perfections are unconceivable , when according to his own principles the most puzzling attributes of god return upon him with more force and violence , and that in a more inexplieable manner . as the atheist must admit those things himself which he rejects the being of god for , so he admits them upon far weaker grounds then we do attribute them to god. if any thing may be made evident to mans natural reason concerning the existence of a being so infinite as god is , we doubt not but to make it appear that we have great assurance of the being of god ; but how far must the atheist go , how heartily must he begg before his hypothesis either of the fortuitous concourse of atoms , or eternity of the world will be granted to him . for if we stay till he proves either of these by evident and demonstrative reasons , the world may have an end before he proves his atoms could give it a beginning ; and we may find it eternal , à parte post , before he can prove it was so á parte ante . for the proof of a deity , we appeal to his own faculties , reason and conscience ; we make use of arguments before his eyes : we bring the universal sense of mankind along with us : but for his principles , we must wholly alter the present stage of the world , and crumble the whole universe into little particles ; we must grind the sun to powder , and by a new way of interrment turn the earth into dust and ashes , before we can so much as imagine how the world could be framed . and when we have thus far begged leave to imagine things to be what they never were , we must then stand by in some infinite space to behold the friskings and dancings about of these little particles of matter , till by their frequent rancounters and justlings one upon another , they at last link themselves together , and run so long in a round till they make whirl-pools enough for sun , moon , and stars , and all the bodies of the universe to emerge out of . but what was it which at first set these little particles of matter in motion ? whence came so great variety in them to produce such wonderful diversities in bodies as there are in the world ? how came these casual motions to hit so luckily into such admirable contrivances as are in the universe ? when once i see a thousand blind men run the point of a sword in at a key-hole without one missing ; when i find them all frisking together in a spacious field , and exactly meeting all at last in the very middle of it ; when i once find as tully speaks , the annals of ennius fairly written in a heap of sand , and as keplers wife told him , a room full of herbs moving up and down , fall down into the exact order of sallets , i may then think the atomical hypothesis probable , and not before . but what evidence of reason , or demonstration have we that the great bodies of the world did result from such a motion of these small particles ? it is possible to be so , saith epicurus ; what if we grant it possible ? can no things in the world be , which it is possible might have been otherwise ? what else thinks epicurus of the generations of things now ? they are such certainly as the world now is , and yet he believes it was once otherwise : must therefore a bare possibility of the contrary make us deny our reason , silence conscience , contradict the universal sense of mankind by excluding a deity out of the world ? but whence doth it appear possible ? did we ever find any thing of the same nature with the world produced in such a manner by such a concourse of atoms ? or is it because we find in natural beings , how much these particles of matter serve to solve the phoenomena of nature ? but doth it at all follow , because now under divine providence which wisely orders the world , and things in it , that these particles with their several affections and motion , may give us a tolerable account of many appearances as to bodies , that therefore the universe had its original meerly by a concretion of these without any divine hand to order and direct their motion ? but of this more , when we come to the creation of the world ; our design now is only to compare the notion of a deity , and of the atheists hypothesis in point of perspicuity and evidence of reason : of which let any one who hath reason judge . thus we see how the atheist in denying a deity , must assert something else instead of it , which is pressed with the same , if not greater difficulties , and proved by far less reason . the atheist by the same principles on which he denyes a god , must deny some things which are apparently true . which will be evident by our running over the most plausible pretences which he insists upon . . because the being of god cannot be demonstrated . but how doth the atheist mean it ? is it because god cannot be demonstrated to sense , that we cannot digito monstrari & dieier hic est , point at him with our fingers ? it is a sign there is little of reason left , where sense is made the only umpire of all kinds of beings . must all intellectual beings be proscribed out of the order of nature , because they cannot pass the scrutiny of sense ? and by the same reason all colours shall be dashed out because they cannot be heard ; all noises silenced because they cannot be seen ; for why may not one sense be set to judge of all objects of sense with far more reason , then sense its self be set as judge over intellectual beings ? but yet it is wisely done of the atheist to make sense his judge ; for if we once appeal to this , he knows our cause is lost ; for as he said of a physician when one asked him , whether he had any experience of him , no said he , si periculum fecissem , non viverem ; if i had tryed him , i had been dead ere now ; so here , if god were to be tryed by the judgement of sense , he must cease to be god ; for how can an infinite and spiritual being be discerned by the judgement of sense , and if he be not an infinite and spiritual being , he is not god. but it may be the atheists meaning is not so gross , but he intends such a demonstration to reason as that two and two make four , or that the whole is greater then the parts ; with such a demonstration he would sit down contented . but will no less then this serve him ? what becomes then of the worlds being made by a sortuitous concourse of atoms ? is this as evident , as that two and two make four ? and will the philosophical atheist really believe nothing in nature , but what is as evident to him in material beings , as that the whole is greater then the parts ? by any means let atheists then write philosophy , that at last the clocks in london may strike together and the philosophers agree ; for i suppose none of them question that . but yet it is possible the atheist may in a good humour abate some thing of this , and mean by demonstration such a proof as takes away all difficulties . if he means as to the ground of assent , we undertake it ; if as to the object ap●rehended , we reject it as unreasonable , because it is impossible a being infinite should be comprehended by us ; for if it could , it were no longer infinite . but let us try this principle by other things , and how evident is it , that on this account some things must be denyed which himself will confess to be true ? for instance , that osprobrium philosophorum , the divisibility of quantity , or extended matter into finite and infinite parts ; let him take which side he please , and see whether by the force of the arguments on either side , if he hold to this principle , he must not be forced to deny that there is any such thing as matter in the world : and then we may well have an infinite empty space , when by the force of this one principle , both god and matter are banished quite out of the world . but if the atheist will but come one step lower , and by his demonstration intend nothing else but such a sufficient proof of it , as the nature of the thing is capable of , he will not only speak most consonantly to reason , but may be in some hopes of gaining satisfaction . for it is most evident , that all things are not capable of the like way of proof , and that in some cases the possibility of the contrary must be no hindrance to an undoubted assent . what these proofs are , will appear afterwards . i come to the next ground of the atheists opinion , which is , . the weakness of some arguments brought to prove a deity . but let us grant that some arguments will not do it , doth it therefore follow that none can do it ? what if some have proved the sun to be the center of the world , and the motion of the earth , by very weak arguments , will the atheist therefore question it ? what if epicurus hath proved his atomical hypothesis by some silly sophismes , will the atheist therefore rather believe the creation of the world then it ? what if the atheist may make himself sport at some stories of apparitions insisted on to prove a d●ity , doth it therefore follow there is no god , because some persons have been over-credulous ? what if some having more zeal then knowledge may attribute such things to gods immediate hand , which may be produced by natural causes , doth it thence follow that god hath no hand in governing the world at all ? what if fears , and hopes , and perswasi●ns , may depend much on principles of education , must conscience then be resolved wholly into these ? what if some devont melancholist may embrace the issues of his own imagination for the impressions of the divine spirit , doth it therefore follow , that religion is nothing but strength of fancy improved by principles of education ? what if some of the numerous proofs of a deity were cut off , and only those made use of , which are of greatest force , would the truth suffer at all by that ? i grant advantage is often taken against a thing more by one weak argument brought for it , then for it by the strongest proofs : but i say it is unreasonable it should be so ; and were men rational and ingenuous it would not be so . many times arguments may be good in their order , but they are misplaced ; some may prove the thing rational , which may not prove it true ; some may shew the absurdity of the adversaries rejecting the thing , which may be not sufficient to prove it ; now when men number and not weigh their arguments , but give them in the lump to the main question , without fitting them to their several places , they do more disservice to the main of the battel by the disorder of their forces , then they can advantage it by the number of them . . another great pretence the atheist hath , is , that religion is only an invention of politicians , which they aw people with as they please , and therefore tell them of a god and another world , as mothers send young children to school to keep them in better order , that they may govern them with the greater ease . to this i answer , . religion i grant hath a great influence upon the well-governing the world , nay so great , that were the atheists opinion true , and the world perswaded of it , it were impossible the world could be well governed . for the government of the world in civil societies , depends not so much on force , as the sacred bonds of duty and allegiance , which hold a nation that owns religion as true , in far surer obligations to endeavour the peace and welfare of a nation then ever violence can do . for in this case only an opportunity is watched for to shake off that which they account a yoke upon their necks ; whereas when mens minds are possessed with a sense of duty and obligation to obedience out of conscience , the rains may be held with greater ease ; and yet the people be better managed by them , then by such as only gall and inrage them . so that i grant true religion to be the most serviceable principle for the governing of civil societies ; but withal i say , . it were impossible religion should be so much made use of for the governing of people , were there not a real propensity and inclination to religion imprinted on the minds of men . for as , did not men love themselves and their children , their estates and interests , it were impossible to keep them in obedience to laws ; but doth it follow , because magistrates perswade people to obedience by suiting laws to the general interest of men , that therefore the magistrates first made them love themselves and their own concerns ? so it is in religion , the magistrate may make use of this propensity to religion in men for civil ends , but his making use of it doth suppose it and not instill it . for were religion nothing else in the world but a design only of politicians , it would be impossible to keep that design from being discovered at one time or other , and when once it came to be known , it would hurry the whole world into confusion ; and the people would make no scruple of all oaths and obligations , but every one would seek to do others what mischief he could if he had opportunity , and obey no further then fear and force constrained him . therefore no principle can be so dangerous to a state as atheism , nor any thing more promote its peace then true religion ; and the more men are perswaded of the truth of religion , they will be the better subjects , and the more useful in civil societies . as well then may an atheist say there is no such thing as good nature in the world because that is apt to be abused , nor any such thing as love because that may be cheated , as that religion is nothing but a design , because men may make it stalke to their private ends . thus we see how the atheist by the force of those principles on which he denyes a god , must be forced to deny other things , which yet by his own confession are apparently true . so i come to the third proposition , which is , that we have as certain evidence that there is a god , as we can have considering his nature . when we demand the proof of a thing , our first eye must be to the nature of the thing which we desire may be proved ; for things equally true , are not capable of equal evidence , nor have like manners of probation . there is no demonstration in euclide will serve to prove that there are such places as the indies : we cannot prove the earth is round by the judgement of sense ; nor that the soul is immortal by corporeal phantasmes . every distinct kind of being hath its peculiar way of probation ; and therefore it ought not to be at all wondered at , if the supreme and infinite being have his peculiar way of demonstrating himself to the minds of men . if then we have as evident proofs of the existence of god , as we can have considering the infinity of his nature , it is all which in reason we can desire ; and of that kind of proofs we have these following , for , . if god hath stamped an universal character of himself upon the minds of men . . if the things in the world are the manifest effects of infinite wisdome , goodness and power . . if there be such things in the world which are unaccountable without a deity ; then we may with safety and assurance conclude that there is a god. . that god hath imprinted an universal character of himself on the minds of men ; and that may be known by two things . . if it be such as bears the same importance among all persons . . if it be such as cannot be mistaken for the character of any thing else . . i begin with the first , whereby i shall prove this character to be universal , because the whole world hath consented in it . this argument we may rely on with the greater security , because it was the only argument which retained the deity in the ancient school of epicurus ; which could he have thought of as easie way of evading it , as he thought he had found out as to the origine of the universe , he was no such great friend to the very name of a god , as to have retained it as an anticipation or prolepsis of humane nature . and this argument from the universal consent of the world , was that which bore the greatest sway among the philosophers , who went by nothing but dictates of natural light , which they could not so clearly discover in any things , as in those which all mankind did unanimously consent in . two things i shall make out this by . . that no sufficient account can be given of so universal a consent , unless it be supposed to be the voyce of nature . . that the dissent of any particular persons is not sufficient to controul so universal an agreement . . that no sufficient account of it can be given , but only by asserting it to be a dictate of nature . in so strange a dissent as there hath been in the world concerning most of those things which relate to mankinde in common , as the models of government , the laws they are ruled by , the particular rites and customs of worship ; we have the greatest reason to judge that those common principles which were the foundations on which all these several different customs were built , were not the effect of any positive laws , nor the meer force of principles of education , but something which had a deeper root and foundation in the principles of nature its self . a common and universal effect must flow from some common and universal cause . so the stoick argues in tully , if there were no god , non tam stabilis opinio permaneret , nec confirmaretur diuturnitate remporis , nec una cum seculis aetatibusque hominum inveterare potuisset . it is strange to think that mankind in so many ages of the world should not grow wise enough to rid its self of so troublesom an opinion as that was , of the being of god , had it not been true . we see in all the alterations of the world , other vain opinions have been detected , refuted and shaken off ; if this had been such , how comes it to remain the same in all ages and nations of the world ? opinionum commenta delet dies , naturae judicia confirmat . it is a great discredit to time to make it like a river in that sense , that it bears up only lighter things , when matters of greatest weight are sunk to the bottom and past recovery ; this may pass for a handsom allusion , as to the opinions and writings of particular persons , but cannot be understood of such things which are founded on the universal consent of the world ; for these common notions of humane nature are so suited to the temper of the world , that they pass down the strong current of time with the same facility that a well built ship , though of good burden , doth furrow the ocean . so that if we must adhere to the allegory , it is easily replyed , that it is not the weight of things which makes them sink , but the unsuitableness of their superficies to that of the water ; so we see a small piece of wood will sink , when a stately ship is born up ; so such things which have not that agreeableness in them to the dictates of nature may soon be lost , but such as lye so even upon the superficies of the soul , will still float above the water , and never be lost in the swiftest current of time. thus we assert this universal consent of mankind , as to the existence of a deity , to be a thing so consonant to our natural reason , that as long as there are men in the world it will continue . but now it is hardly conceivable , according to the principles of epicurus , how mankind should universally agree in some common sentiments ; much less how it should have such an anticipation as himself grants of the being of god. for if the soul be nothing else but some more active and vigorous particles of matter ( as diogenes laertius tells us , that his opinion was that the soul was nothing else but a systeme 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of the most smooth and round atoms ) if so , it is very hard apprehending how any such things as anticipations or commctions can be lodged in the soul ? for if our souls be nothing else but some small sphaericall corpuscles which move up and down the body , as the epicurean philosophy supposeth , then all our knowledge and perception must depend on motion , which motion must be by the impression of external objects : which lucretius acknowledgeth and contends for . invenies primis à sensibus esse creatam notitiam veri . if then our knowledge of truth comes in by our senses , and sensation doth wholly depend upon the impression of outward objects , what becomes of all common notions and of the prolepsis of a deity ? unless we suppose the knowledge of a deity came in by sense , which epicurus himself denyes when he attributes to the deity not corpus , but quasi corpus , as tully tells us , and therefore he is not a proper object of sense . so that it is impossible there should be any such thing as a natural notion which may be the ground of universal consent among men , according to the doctrine of epicurus . and therefore it stands to all reason in the world , that if our senses be the only competent iudges of truth , men should differ about nothing more then such things which cannot be tryed by the judgement of sense ; such as the notion of a god is ; ( for where should men be more uncertain in their judgements , then in such thing which they have no rule at all to go by in the judging of ? ) but we are so far from finding it so , that men are nothing so much agreed about the objects of sense , as they are about the existence of a deity ; and therefore we see this universal consent of mankind concerning a god , cannot be salved by the principles of those who deny it ; according to which no account at all can be given of any such things as universal or common notions . neither can this universal consent of mankind be enervated with any greater probability by those atheists who assert the eternity of the world , and resolve this consent wholly into meer tradition , such as the fables of poets were conveyed in from one to another . for i demand concerning this tradition , whether ever it had any beginning or no ? if it had no beginning , it could be no tradition ; for that must run up to some persons from whom it first came ; again , if it had no beginning , it was necessary that it should alwayes be , on the same accounts on which they make the world eternal . and if it be necessary , it must be antecedent to any free act of mans will which tradition supposeth ; and so some false opinion would be found to be as necessary as the worlds being eternal , ( and by consequence , the worlds being eternal may be a necessary false opinion ) but if any false opinion be once granted necessary , it then follows that our faculties are not true , and that nature is a necessary cause of some notorious falsity , which is the highest impeachment the atheist could have laid upon his only adored nature ; which must then have done that , ( which aristotle was ashamed to think ever nature should be guilty of ) which is something in vain ; for to what purpose should man have rational faculties , if he be under an unavoidable necessity of being deceived ? if then it be granted that this tradition had once a beginning , either it began with humane nature , or humane nature did exist long before it ; if it began with mankind , then mankind had a beginning , and so the world was not eternal ; if mankind did exist before this tradition , i then enquire in what time , and by what means came this tradition first to be embraced , if it doth not supppse the existence of a deity ? can any age be mentioned in history , wherein this tradition was not universally received ? and which is most to our purpose , the further we go back in history , the fuller the world was of deities , if we believe the heathen histories ; but however no age can be instanced in , wherein this tradition began first to be believed in the world ; we can trace the poetick fables to their true original , by the testimonies of those who believed them ; we know the particular authors of them , and what course they took in divulging of them ; we find great diversities among themselves in the meaning of them , and many nations that never heard of them . but all things are quite otherwise in this tradition ; we have none to fix on as the first authors of it ; if the world were eternal , and the belief of a deity fabulous , we cannot understand by what artifice a fabulous tradition could come to be so universally received in the world , that no nation of old could be instanced in by the inquisitive philosophers , but however rude and barbarous it was , yet it owned a deity . how could such a tradition be spread so far , but either by force or fraud ? it could not be by force , because embraced by an unanimous consent where no force at all hath been used , and hath been so rooted in the very natures of those people who have been most tender of their liberties , that they have resented no indignity so highly , as any affronts they conceived to be offered to their gods . nay , and where any persons would seem to quit the belief of a deity , we find what force and violence they have used to their own reason and conscience to bring themselves to atheisme , which they could not subdue their minds to any longer then the will could command the understanding , which when it gained but a little liberty to examine it self , or view the world , or was alarumed with thunder , earth-quakes , or violent sickness , did bring back again the sense of a deity with greater force and power then they had endeavoured to shake it off with . now had this tradition come by force into the world , there would have been a secret exultation of mind to be freed from it , as we see nature rejoyceth to shake off every thing which is violent , and to settle every thing according to its due order . it is only fraud then which can be with any reason imagined in this case ; and how unreasonable it is to imagine it here , will appear to any one who doth consider how extreamly jealous the world is of being imposed upon by the subtilty of such who are thought to be the greatest polititians . for the very opinion of their subtilty makes men apt to suspect a design in every thing they speak or do , so that nothing doth more generally hinder the entertaining of any motion so much among vulgar people , as that it comes from a person reputed very politick . so that the most politick way of gaining upon the apprehensions of the vulgar , is by taking upon one the greatest appearance of simplicity and integrity ; and this now could not be done by such polititians which we now speak of , but by accommodating themselves to such things in the people which were so consonant to their natures , that they could suspect no design at all in the matters propounded to them . and thus i assert it to have been in the present case , in all those politick governours who at first brought the world into both civil and religious societies , after they were grown rude and barbarous ; for as it had been impossible to have brought them into civil societies , unless there had been supposed an inclination to society in them , so it had been equally impossible to have brought them to embrace any particular way of religion , unless there had been a natural propensity to religion implanted in them , and founded in the general belief of the existence of a deity . and therefore we never find any of the antient founders of common-wealths go about to perswade the people , that there was a god , but this they supposed and made their advantage of it , the better to draw the people on to embrace that way of worship which they delivered to them , as most suitable to their own design . and this is plainly evident in the vast difference of designs and interests which were carried on in the heathen world upon this general apprehension of a deity . how came the world to be so easily abused into religions of all shapes and fashions , had not there been a natural inclination in mens souls to religion , and an indeleble idea of a deity on the minds of men ? were then this propensity groundless , and this idea fictitious , it were the greatest slurr imaginable which could be cast upon nature , that when the instincts of irrational agents argue something real in them ; only man , the most noble being of the visible world , must be fatally carryed to the belief of that which never was . which yet hath so great a force and awe upon man , that nothing creates so great anxieties in his life as this doth ; nothing layes him more open to the designs of any who have an intent to abuse him . but yet further , these politicians who first abused the world in telling them there was a god , did they themselves believe there was a god or no ? if they did , then they had no such end as abusing the world into such a belief . if they did not , upon what accounts did they believe there was none , when the people were so ready , to believe there was one ? was that as certain a tradition before that there was no god , as afterwards they made it to be that there was ? if so , then all those people whom they perswaded to believe there was a god , did before , all believe there was none ; and how can it possibly enter into the reason of any man to think , that people who had been brought up in the belief that there was no god at all , nor any state after this life , should all unanimously quit the principles of education which tended so much to their ease and pleasure here , to believe there was a god and another life , and thereby to fill themselves full of fears and disquietments ; meerly because their rulers told them so ? again , if these rulers themselves were so wise as not to believe a deity , can we imagine there ever was such an age of the world vvherein it fell out so happily , that only the rulers vvere wise , and all the subjects fools ? but it may be , it vvill be said , that all who were wise themselves did not believe a deity , but yet consented to the practice of religion , because it was so useful for the government of mankind ; but , can it be thought that all these wise men vvhich vve must suppose of several ranks and degrees , ( for philosophers are not alvvayes states-men , nor states-men philosophers ) should so readily concurr in such a thing which tended most to the interest of the prince , and to the abuse of the world ? would none of them be ready to assert the truth , though it were but to make a party of their own , and discover to the people , that it was only the ambition and design of their governours which sought to bring the people to slavery by the belief of such things which were contrary to the tradition of their fore-fathers , and would make their lives , if they believed them , continually troublesom and unquiet ? or if we could suppose things should hit thus in one nation , what is this to the whole world which the atheist here supposeth eternal ? what , did all the rulers of the world exactly agree in one moment of time , or at least in one age thus to abuse the world ? did the designs of governours and the credulity of all people fall out to be so suitable together ? but on the contrary , we do not find that governours can have the judgements of people so at their command , that they can make them to believe what they please ; if it were so , we may well say with that atheistical pope , heu quam minimo regitur mundus ; what a twine thread will rule the world ! but granting these things , ( which any but an atheist will say are impossible ) yet whence should it come to pass that the world which is generally led more by the opinions of their forefathers then by reason , should so cancell that former tradition that there was no god , that no remaining foot-steps of it can be traced in any history of those times ? or did the governors all consent to abolish all records of it ? publick and written i grant they might , but not those out of mens minds and memories ; which would have been for the ease of the minds of their posterity conveyed in some secret cabala from fathers to their children . it may be it will be said , so it was , but men durst not profess it for fear of the laws ; but , it is not evident that the laws of all the antient common-wealths were so severe against atheism ; and withall how came some of the wisest and most philosophical men of greece and rome to embrace the existence of a deity as a thing far more consonant to reason then the contrary opinion , and established their belief on such evidences from nature its self , that none of their antagonists were able to answer them ? it was not certainly the fear of laws which made men rational and inquisitive into the natures and causes of things ; and yet those who were such amidst the great idolatries of the heathen , & being destitute of divine revelation , yet freely and firmly assented to the existence of a deity . had it been only fraud and imposture which brought men to believe a god , whence came it to pass that this fraud was not discovered by these philosophers who were far better able by their nearness to those eldest times , and much converse abroad in other nations ( for some travelled into aegypt , chaldea , persia , india , meerly to gain knowledge ) to have found out such an imposture , had it been such , then any of our modern atheists ? whence come these now in this almost decrepite age of the world to be the first smellers out of so great a design ? by what means , what tokens and evidence came such an imposture to their knowledge ? because , forsooth , the world is still apt to be abused by a pretence of religion ; but he that doth not see how silly and ridiculous a sophism that is , either by his own reason , or by what hath gone before , hath wit and reason little enough to be an atheist . some therefore who would seem a little wiser then the vulgar sort of atheists ( for it seems there is a vulgus among them too , i wish it be more for their meanness then multitude ) are so far convinced of the unreasonablenss of judging that the belief of a deity came in by fraud , that finding it so general and universal , they attribute it to as general and universal a cause which is the influence of the stars . so true still is that of the poet , coelum ipsum petimus stultitia ; for by what imaginable influence come the stars to plant opinions in mens minds so deeply and universally ? but yet further , is this opinion which is thus caused by the stars , true or false ? if the opinion be true , we have what we desire ; if false , what malignant influence is this of the stars so powerfully to sway men to the belief of a falsity ? how far are the stars then from doing good to mankind , when they are so influential to deceive the world ; but then by what peculiar influence come some men to be freed from this general imposture ? if the cause be so universal , the effect must be universal too . but if only the nativity and continuance of some particular religions may be calculated by the stars , ( as cardan and vaninus atheistically suppose ) whence then comes the general propensity and inclination to religion in all ages and nations of the world ? if it be then caused by the heavens in general , it must be produced necessarily and universally , and so to be an atheist , were impossible ; if it be caused by the influence of some particular stars , then when that influence ceaseth , the world would universally relapse into atheism . so that there is no possible way of avoiding this universal consent of mankind , as an argument that there is a god , when all the pretences of the atheist against it are so weak , ridiculous , and impertinent . the only thing then left for him , is to deny the truth of the thing , viz. that there is such an universal consent ; because some persons have been found in the world who have not agreed with the rest of mankind in this opinion . to this i answer , ( which was the second particular for clearing this argument ) that the dissent of these persons is not sufficient to manifest the consent not to be universal , and to arise from a dictate of nature . for i demand of the greatest atheist , whether it be sufficient to say , that it is not natural for men to have two legs , because some have been born with one , or that it is not natural for men to desire life , ( which the atheist loves so dearly ) because there have been so many who have taken away their own lives ? if it be said that these are monsters and anomalyes in nature , and therefore not to be reckoned in the regular account of things , the same i may with as great reason say of atheists , that they are to be dispunged out of the census of such who act upon free principles of reason ; because there may be some peculiar reasons given of their dissent from the rest of mankind in the denyal of a deity . we see by the old philosophers how far the affectation of novelty , and ambition of being cryed up for no vulgar wits , may carry men to deny such things which are most common and obvious in the world . is there any thing more plain and evident to reason , then that it implyes a contradiction for the same thing to be and not to be at the same time ? and yet if we believe aristotle , who largely disputes against them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . there were some who affirmed that a thing might be and not be at the same time . what so evident in nature as motion , yet the philosopher is well known who disputed against it , and thought himself subtile in doing so too ? what are men more assured of , then that they live , and yet ( if it be not too dogmatical , even in that to believe the scepticks ) it was a thing none could be assured of ? what are our senses more assured of then that the snow is white , yet all the philosophers were not of that opinion ? is this then sufficient reason on which to deny an universal consent , because some philosophers opposed it , when it is most undoubtedly true which tully sharply speaks of the antient philosophers , nihil tam absurdum quod non dixerit aliquis philosophorum ; there was no absurdity so great , but it found a philosopher to vouch it ! but in this case those philosophers who questioned the existence of a deity , though they were not for number to be compared with those who asserted it , yet were not so inexcusable therein , as our modern atheists ; because they then knew no other way of religion , but that which was joyned with horrible superstition and ridiculous rites of worship ; they were strangers to any thing of divine revelation , or to any real miracles wrought to confirm it , and to such a way of serving god which is most agreeable to the divine nature , most suitable to our reason , most effectual for advancing true goodness in the world . and although this most excellent religion , viz. the christian , be subject to many scandals by reason of the corruptions which have been mixed with it by those who have professed it , yet the religion its self is clear and untainted , being with great integrity preserved in the sacred records of it . so that now athcism hath far less to plead for its self , then it had in the midst of the ignorance and superstition of the heathen idolatries . but , if we should grant the athcist more then he can prove , that the number of such who denyed a deity hath been great in all ages of the world ; is it probable they should speak the sense of nature , whose opinion if it were embraced , would dissolve all tyes and obligations whatsoever , would let the world loose to the highest licentiousness without check or controul , and would in time overturn all civil societies ? for as tully hath largely shewn , take away the being and providence of god out of the world , and there follows nothing but perturbation and confusion in it ; not only all sanctity , piety and devotion is destroyed , but all faith , vertue , and humane societies too ; which are impossible to be upheld without religion , as not only he , but plato , aristotle , and plutarch have fully demonstrated . shall such persons then who hold an opinion so contrary to all other dictates of nature , rather speak the sense of nature then they who have asserted the belief of a deity , which tends so much to advance nature , to regulate the world , and to reform the lives of men ? certainly if it were not a dictate of nature that there was a god , it is impossible to conceive the world should be so constant in the belief of him , when the thoughts of him breed so many anxicties in mens minds , and withall since god is neither obvious to sense , nor his nature comprehensible by humane reason . which is a stronger evidence it is a character of himself which god hath imprinted on the minds of men , which makes them so unanimously agree that he is , when they can neither see him , nor yet fully comprehend him . for any whole nation , which have consented in the denyal of a deity , we have no evidence at all ; some suspicions it is true there were at first concerning some very barbarous people in america , but it is since evident though they are grosly mistaken as to the nature of god , yet they worship something in stead of him , such as the toupinambors , caribes , patagons , tapuiae and others ; of the last of which vossius from one christophorus arcissewski a polonian gentleman who was among them , hath given a large account of their religion , and the manner of their worshipping of their gods , both good and bad . and that which among these indians much confirms our present argument , is , that only those who have been the most barbarous and savage nations , have been suspected of irreligion , but the more civilized they have been , the more evident their sense of religion . the peruvians worship one chief god , whom they call viracocha , and pachacamak , which is as much as the creator of heaven and earth . and of the religion of the mexicans , lipsius and others speak . so that the nearer any have approached to civility and knowledge , the more ready they have been to own a deity , and none have had so little sense of it , as they who are almost degenerated to brutes ; and whether of these two now comes nearer to reason , let any one who hath it judge . another great evidence that god hath imprinted a character or idea of himself on the minds of men is , because such things are contained in this idea of god which do necessarily imply his existence . the main force of this argument lies in this , that which we do clearly & distinctly perceive to belong to the nature and essence of a thing , may be with truth affirmed of the thing ; not that it may be affirmed with truth to belong to the nature of the thing , for that were an empty tautology , but it may be affirmed with truth of the thing its self , as if i clearly perceive upon exact enquiry , that to be an animal doth belong to the nature of man , i may with truth affirm that man is a living creature ; if i find it demonstrably true that a triangle hath three angles equal to two right ones , then i may truly affirm it of any triangle ; but now we assume , that upon the most exact search and enquiry , i clearly perceive that necessary existence doth immutably belong to the nature of god ; therefore , i may with as much truth affirm that god exists , as that man is a living creature , or a triangle hath three angles equal to two right ones . but because many are so apt to suspect some kind of sophism in this argument , when it is managed from the idea in mens minds , because that seems to imply only an objective reality in the mind , and that nothing can be thence interred as to the existence of the thing whose idea it is , i therefore shall endeavour to manifest more clearly the force of this argument , by proving severally the suppositions which it stands upon , which are these three . . that clear and distinct perception of the mind is the greatest evidence we can have of the truth of any thing . . that we have this clear perception that necessary existence doth belong to the nature of god. . that if necessary existence doth belong to gods nature , it unavoidably follows that he doth exist . nothing can be desired more plain or full to demonstrate the force of this argument , then by proving every one of these . . that the greatest evidence we can have of the truth of a thing , is , a clear and distinct perception of it in our minds . for otherwise the rational faculties of mans soul would be wholly useless , as being not fitted for any end at all , if upon a right use of them , men were still lyable to be deceived . i grant the imperfection of our minds in this present state is very great , which makes us so obnoxious to errour and mistake ; but then that imperfection lies in the pr●neness in mans mind to be led by interest and prejudice in the judgement of things ; but in such things as are purely speculative and rational , if the mind cannot be certain it is not deceived in them , it can have no certainty at all of any mathematical demonstrations . now we find in our own minds a clear and conv●ncing evidence in some things , as soon as they are propounded to our understandings , as that a thing cannot be and not be at the same time ; that , a non-entity can have no proper attributes ; that , while i reason and discourse , i am ; these are so clear , that no man doth suspect himself deceived at all in them . besides , if we had no ground of certainty at all in our judging things , to what purpose is there an idea of true and false in our minds , if it be impossible to know the one from the other ? but i say not , that in all perceptions of the mind we have certain evidence of truth , but only in such as are clear and distinct ; that is , when upon the greatest consideration of the nature of a thing , there appears no ground or reason at all to doubt concerning it ; and this must suppose the minds abstraction wholly from the senses ; for we plainly find that while we attend to them , we may judge our selves very certain and yet be deceived , as those who have an icterism in their eyes , may judge with much confidence that they see things as clearly and distinctly as any other doth . besides , there are many things taken for granted by men , which have no evidence of reason at all in them ; now if men will judge of the truth of things by such principles , no wonder if they be deceived . but when we speak of clear and distinct perception , we suppose the mind to proceed upon evident principles of reason , or to have such notions of things , which as far as we can perceive by the light of reason , do agree with the natures of the things we apprehend ; if in such things then there be no ground of certainty , it is as much as to say our faculties are to no purpose ; which highly reflects either upon god or nature . it is a noble question , as any is in philosophy , what is the certain 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the truth of things , or what ground of certainty the mind hath to proceed upon in its judgement of the truth of such objects as are represented to it ? nothing can render the philosophy of epicurus more justly suspected to any ●ational and inquisitive mind , then his making the senses the only certain conveyers of the truth of things to the mind . the senses i grant do not in themselves deceive any , but if i make the impressions of sense to be the only rule for the mind to judge by of the truth of things , i make way for the greatest impostures , and the most erring judgements . for if my mind affirms every thing to be in its proper nature according to that idea which the imagination hath received from the impressions upon the organs of sense , it will be impossible for me ever to understand the right natures of things . because the natures of things may remain the same , when all those things in them which affect the organs of sense may be altered ; and because the various motion and configuration of the particles of matter may make such an impression upon the senses , which may cause an idea in us of that in the things themselves , which yet may be only in the manner of sensation ; as some philosophers suppose it to be in heat and cold . now if the mind judgeth of the nature of things according ; to those idea's which come from the impressions made upon the organs of sense ; how is it possible it should ever come to a right judgement of the natures of things ? so that in reference even to the grossest material beings , it must be the perception only of the mind which can truly inform us of their proper nature and essence . besides there are many idea's of things in the mind of man which are capable to have properties demonstrated of them , which never owed their original to our senses , and were never imported to the mind at the keyes of the senses . such are most mathematical figures which have their peculiar properties and demonstrations ; such are all the mutual respects of things to each other , which may be as certain and evident to the mind as its self is ; now it is plain by this , that all certainty of knowledge is not conveyed by the senses ; but our truest way of certain understanding the nature of any thing , is by the clear and distinct perception of the mind , which is founded on the truth of our faculties ; and that however we may be deceived when we do not make a right use of our reason , because of the imperfection of our present state ; yet if we say our mind may be deceived when things are evident and clear to them upon plain principles of reason , it is highly to reslect upon that god who gave men rational faculties , and made them capable of discerning truth from falshood . . that we have clear and distinct perception that necessity of existence doth belong to the nature of god. for which we are to consider the vast difference which there is in our notion of the nature of god , and of the nature of any other being . in all other beings , i grant we may abstract essence and existance from each other ; now if i can make it appear , that there is evident reason , ex parte rei , why i cannot do it in the notion of god , then it will be more plain that necessity of existence doth immutably belong to his nature . it is manifest to our reason , that in all other beings which we apprehend the natures of , nothing else can be implyed in the natures of them beyond bare possibility of existence ; no , although the things which do apprehend , do really exist , because in forming an idea of a thing , we abstract from every thing which is not implyed in the very nature of the thing ; now existence being only contingent and possible , as to any other being , it cannot be any ingredient of its idea , because it doth not belong to its essence ; for we may fully apprehend the nature of the thing , without attributing existence to it . but now in our conception of a being absolutely perfect , bare possibility or contingency of existence speaks a direct repugnancy to the idea of kim ; for how can we conceive that being absolutely perfect , which may want that which gives life to all other perfections , which is existence ? the only scruple , which mens minds are subject to in apprehending the force of this argument lies in this , whether this necessary existence doth really belong to the nature of that being whose idea it is , or else it be only a mode of our conception in apprehending god ? for clearing of this , we must consider by what certain rules we can know when the composition of things together in the understanding , doth depend upon the meer operation of the mind , and when they do belong to the things themselves and their immutable nature . for which we have no rule so certain and evident as this is , that in those things which depend meerly on the act of the mind joyning together , the understanding cannot only abstract one thing from another , but may really divide them in its conceptions from each other : but in such things which cannot be divided from each other , but the essence of the thing is quite altered , it is a certain evidence that those things were not conjoyned by the meer act of the mind , but do immutably belong to the natures of the things themselves . as for instance , when i conceive a triangle inscribed in a square , a man walking , a horse with wings , it is evident i may understand the natures of all these things without these affections of them , because i can fully apprehend the nature of a triangle without imagining a square , a man without walking , a horse without wings ; thence it necessarily follows , that the joyning of these things together was meerly an act of the mind ; but now i cannot conceive a triangle not to have three angles equal to two right ones , nor a man that hath not rationality belonging to him ; for if i divide these attributes from them , i destroy their natures ; and therefore the joyning of these together is not any meer act of the mind , but these are such things as are implyed in the very notion of them , and therefore immutably belongs to them . so now , when i conceive the notion of a body , i can imagine all perfections belonging to it , without conceiving it necessarily to exist ; for it may be a body still , though it hath not its being from its self ; but when i conceive a being absolutely perfect , it is impossible to imagine it should have its being from any other ; and if it be from its self , it must of necessity exist . for though the mind still be apt to doubt , whether existence in this idea be only a mode of cogitation ; yet that doubt may be easily removed , if the mind doth but attend to this , that at least possibility of existence doth belong to all those beings which we have a clear idea of in our minds ; and the reason why we attribute bare possibility to them , is because we apprehend some reason in our minds which keeps us from attributing necessity of existence to them , as that it is not implyed in its nature , or that it doth depend on some other being , or that it wants infinite power , &c. now all these reasons which make us attribute bare possibility of existence to any being , are taken away when we conceive a being absolutely perfect ; for then existence is implyed among the number of perfections , and this being is dependent upon all others , and infinitely powerfull ; so that nothing can hinder its existence ; and therefore we must conclude that necessity of existence doth immutably belong to the nature and notion of god , and is not any mode only of our conception ; because if we take away necessity of existence from god , we lose the notion of a being absolutely perfect . the third thing , that if necessary existence belongs to the nature of god , he doth exist , not only follows as a necessary conclusion from the other two , as the premises , but is in it self evident to any ones reason ; for it implyes no less then a contradiction for a being to exist necessarily , and yet it be questionable , whether he doth exist or no ? thus much i suppose may suffice here to explain and enforce this argument ; if any are yet unsatisfied , i referr them to those judicious authors , who have made it their peculiar business to manage it , and vindicate it from all objections : which falls in only here as an evidence that god hath imprinted a character of himself on the minds of men , seeing we have so clear and distinct an idea of such a being , from whom , if we take away necessity of existence , we destroy that notion which our minds have or an absolutely perfect being . this is the first way whereby we ●an conceive an infinite being may make himself known to mankind , by imprinting an indelible character of himself upon the soul , which can be attributed to none besides himself , without doing manifest violence to our own faculties , and suspecting our selves deceived in things which are most clear and evident to us . i come to the second evidence which god hath given us of his own existence , which is the mark and impression which he hath left of an infinite wisdom and counsel in the appearances which are in nature . there needs no great criticism to find out the true author of all the works of nature ; the works themselves shew the author as plainly , as if his effigies were drawn upon them . if the great curiosity and contrivance of any artificial engine speak the excellency of the mechanical wit of the framer of it ; what ridiculous folly will it be to impute that rare mechanism of the works of nature to the blind and fortuitous motion of some particles of matter ? suppose a multitude of letters casually thrown together , should fall so handsomly in order , that we might read in them the names of troja , iuno , aeneas , dido , turnus , ascanius , or the like ; is it possible for any to imagine that ever they should reach the grandeur , stile , matter and accuracy of the whole books of the aeneids ? so granting , that now matter being set in motion by a divine power , may by its continual agitation , at last produce some of the appearances of nature ; yet what is this to the whole universe , or the admirable contrivance of any one part in it ? if these things had been the result of meer matter and motion , when once the particles of matter had been so united and settled together , as to produce any one species of animals in the world , ( which it is almost unconceivable they should ) yet we cannot think that if there had been but symmetry of parts enough for it meerly to subsist its self , and propagate more , there could have been any further attempt made by those atoms which had been once settled in a determinate figure . how came it then to pass that there is not any one species of animals in the world , but what hath such an order , symmetry and contrivance of parts which speaks more then meer necessity of subsistence ; and therefore speaks them to be the effects or a suprenm governour of the world , and not the products of meer matter ? is it possible that any , who is not before hand resolved to exclude a deity , should imagine that any particles of matter should fall into the exact form , order , motion , and serviceableness to the world which the heavenly bodies are in , without divine counsel and wisdom disposing of them ? tully tells us of a speech of aristotle to this purpose ; if we could suppose persons to have lived in some caverns of the earth , and to have enjoyed every thing there of pleasure , and riches , or whatever it is which we think makes mens lives happy , and had never been abroad upon the surface of the earth , but had only had some obscure report of an infinite power and being ; and that afterwards these persons should by an opening of the caverns wherein they were , come abroad into these parts of the world , and should suddenly behold the earth , sea , and the heavens , and observe the vastness of the clouds and violence of winds , and behold the bigness , beauty , and influence of the sun , and how the day depended upon his presence , and upon his withdrawing should view the face of the heavens again , ( as it were the second course of nature ) the order , and ornament of the stars , the varieties of the light of the moon , their rising and setting , and their fixed , and immoveable courses , they could not hold from believing there was a deity , and that these were the effects of his power . so vastly different are the free and natural emanations of our souls , from that which we force and strain out of our selves , by distorting and wringing those free principles of reason which god hath given us . when a few sorry experiments and some arbitrarious hypotheses , must make us form other conceptions of things , then the majesty , order and beauty of them do naturally suggest to us : we see when once we can but abstract our minds from those prejudices which continual conversation with the world brings upon us , by that speech of aristotle , how readily our minds will frame an excellent commentary upon those words of the royal psalmist , the heavens declare the glory of god , and the firmament shews his bandy-work . to which purpose likewise those words of the excellent orator himself in another place are very observeable ; quid est enim verius quam neminem esse oportere tam stultè arrogantem , ut in se mentem & rationem putet inesse , in coelo mundóque non putet ? aut ea quae vix summâ ingenii ratione comprehendat , nulla ratione moveri putat ? quem verb astrorum ordines , quem dierum noctiumque vicissitudines , quem mensium temperatio , quemque ea quae gignuntur nobis ad fruexdum , non gratume esse cogant , hunc hominem omninò numerare qui decet ? what monstrous arrogancy would it be in any man to think there is a mind and reason in himself , and that there is none in the world ? or to think those things are moved without reason and understanding , which all that he hath is scarce able to comprehend ? neither can he deserve the name of a man , from whom the observation of the courses of the stars , the succession and order of seasons , and the innumerable benefits which he enjoyes in the world , does not extort gratitude towards that being which ordered all these things . what a low opinion then had those more resined and generous spirits who went only upon principles of pure and undistorted reason , of those mean and ignoble souls which were inclined to atheism ; especially then , when religion was so abused , that it was true of the wisest of them , what one said of erasmus , magis habuit quid fugeret quam quid sequeretur , they knew what to avoid , but not what they should embrace ? and vet when they saw so much into the folly and superstition of heathen worship , they saw the greatest reason still to adhere to the belief of a deity , as may be clearly seen , especially in the second of those excellent dialogues of tully , de natura deorum . where this particular argument to prove a deity from the admirable contrivance of the works of nature , is managed with a great deal of ●loguence and reason , and by particular enumeration of most considerable parts of the universe . so unbecoming a late philosopher was that reason of his , why he waved the argument from the consideration of the world , to inferr a deity , because the ends of god are unsearchable , as flowing from his infinite wisdom . for what though god may conceal some things from men , which he intends , and are of no concernment for man to know , must therefore of necessity those ends of his be unsearchable in his works of creation , which referr so immediately to the advantage of lfe , and tend so much to the veneration of the deity ? nay the peculiar use and serviceableness of many parts of the universe , especially of animals , and chiefly of man , is so evident , that this hath been the main argument which hath induced some , otherwise atheistical enough , to acknowledge and adore a deity . and although the epicureans be lamentably puzzled to give any tolerable account of many other appearances in nature , yet they nowhere discover so much weakness and ignorance , as when they come to discourse de usu partium , about the contrivance of the parts of mans body . whose opinion is thus briefly delivered by lucretius , nil ideo quoniam natum'st in corpore ut uti possemus ; sed quodnatum'st id procreat usum . i. e. that no-parts of mans body were designed for that use which they are imployed for , but the parts by chance fell into that form they are in , and men by degrees brought them to their present use and serviceableness . an opinion at first view so strangely unreasonable , that we cannot think epicurus should have ever embraced it , had it not unavoidably followed upon his hypothesis of all things in the universe resulting only from a fortuitous concourse of atoms : according to which he supposed in man a different configuration of parts would happen , from the various agitation and concretion of those little particles which at first run together in the fashion of a man ; and because that man had in him a more florid and vivacious spirit , made up of the most subtile and moveable atoms , thence motion came into the several parts , suitable to the different conformation of them . and because those atoms of which the soul is composed , are capable of sensation , thence it comes to pass , that it sees in the eye , hears in the ear , and smells in the nostrills . this is the most which is made of the opinion of epicurus by the late sedulous vindicator of him , which yet himself calls intoleranda opinio ; and it will appear to be so , not only as contradicting what god himself hath delivered concerning man , but what reason its self will easily suggest from the consideration of the several parts of mans body . it must be confessed there were some philosophers elder then epicurus who were much inclined to this opinion , as democritus , empedocles , anaxagoras and others ; yet we find those who more narrowly searched into the natures of living creatures , were thereby brought to acknowledg a divine providence which with a great deal of wisdom did order the several parts of animals , and adapted them to their peculiar uses . and although aristotle in his books de partibus animalium , hath said enough to refute the fond opinion of those philosophers ; yet none hath handled this argument with more exactness and accuracy , and with a more peculiar reflection on epicurus , then galen hath done in his excellent piece de usu partium . which gassendus thinks galen writ with a kind of enthusiasm upon him , ( adeo totum opus videtur conscriptum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) and so that all those seventeen books of his on that subject , are a kind of . psalm in philosophy , or a perpetual hymn upon the praise of the great creator , or a just commentary on those words of the psalmist , psal. . . i am fearfully and wonderfully made ; marvellous are thy works , and that my soul knoweth right well . in the entrance of those books , galen first shews the great variety of parts which is in several animals suitable to their several natures ; the horse because of his swiftness and pride ; hath the strongest hoofs and most curled main ; the lyon because of his fierceness and courage hath his strength lying in his teeth and paws ; the bull in his horns ; the boar in his tusks ; the hart and hare being timerous creatures , their parts are made fittest for flight : but man , because he hath a principle of reason in him , hath no defensive or offensive weapons in his body , but he hath hands to make use of both ; which being joyned with and imployed by his reason , far exceed all those advantages which any other creatures have , being imployed not only to defend himself , but to build houses , make clothes , arms , nets , whatever is useful for himself , or hurtful to those creatures which he hath command over ; but because man was made for society and civil converse , therefore his hands were not only imployed to defend himself or hurt other creatures , but for the mutual benefit and advantage of mankind ; for by these were laws written , temples built , all instruments of arts framed ; by them we enjoy the benefit of others wits , we can discourse with plato , aristotle , hippocrates , and other antients , though at such a dist●nce from us . now that the configuration of parts is not the cause of the use of them afterwards ; as the lyons paw , of his courage , the bulls horns of his fierceness , or the slenderness of the hart of its fearfulness , appears by this , because the young ones of the several kinds of animals , before their parts are grown up , strive to make the same use of them which the others do . as galen saith , he had often seen a bull-calf pushing with his head before any horns were grown out , and a colt kicking when his hoofs were yet tender , and a young boar defending himself with his jaws before he had any tusks ; which is an evident argument that the parts were designed for the use , and not the use follow the parts . so , saith he , take three eggs , one of an eagle , another of a duck , and a third of a serpent , and after they are hatched through a moderate heat , we shall find when they are but newly hatched , the two first will be striving to fly before they have wings , and the third endeavouring to creep away on its belly ; and if you breed them up to greater perfection , and bring them into the open air , you will presently see the young eagle mounting into the air , the duck quoddling into a pool , and the serpent creep under ground . afterwards he comes particularly to handle the several parts of mans body , and first begins with the hand , and shews in each part that it were impossible to have framed them with greater conveniency for their several uses then they have . the use of the hand is to take hold of any thing which man can use ; now there being things of such different sizes which men may use , it had been impossible for the hand , if it had been one entire thing and undivided , that it could have held things greater or lesser then its self , but it must have been equal to it . but now as the fingers are placed and divided , they are equally fit for laying hold of objects of any size or quantity ; for the least things , as a barley corn , are taken up with the fore-finger and the thumb , things somewhat bigger are taken up by the same , but not by the extremities of them as before ; things somewhat bigger then these , with the thumb , fore-finger and middle-finger , and so on by degrees , till at last the whole hand is used ; so that the division of the hand into fingers is necessary . neither were this enough , but the very position of the fingers as they are , is necessary too ; for they had been useless if they had been all divided in a right line ; for the firmest hold is either circular or at least in two opposite points ; but now this is provided for , by the position of the thumb which may equally joyn with any of the fingers in taking hold of any thing . after this , he largely shews the patticular necessity of the softness , roundness of the flesh , and nails on the tops of the fingers ; and the special usefulness of these ; and then comes to the bones of the fingers , how necessary they are for firm hold , and if there had been but one bone in each finger , they would have served only for those things which we take up when they are extended ; but now seeing they have three several joynts , they are fitted for all kinds of things ; for when we bow our fingers we use them as though they had no bones at all , and when we stretch them out , as though they were all but one entire bone ; and the several inflections of the joynts serve for all kind of figures : and then he shews the necessity of the flesh within the fingers , and on either side of them , and upon them ; and so with wonderful accuracy handles the magnitude , number , figure of the bones , and nature of the joynts of the fingers , and then the tendons and muscles belonging to the several fingers , which after he hath discoursed on through his first book , he concludes it with the manifest inconveniency which would follow in the hand , were not every thing in it in that exact magnitude , position , and figure in which it is . with the same exactness he goes through all the parts of the body , handling in the second book all that belongs to the arm , in the third the legs , in the fourth and fifth the organs of nutrition , in the sixth and seventh the lungs , in the eighth and ninth the head , in the tenth the peculiar and admirable fabrick of the eyes , in the eleventh the other parts of the face , in the twelfth the parts of the back , and so in the thirteenth , in the fourteenth and fifteenth the genitals , in the sixteenth the arteryes , veins , and nerves , and in the last the peculiar disposition and figure of all these parts , and the usefulness of the whole design : which is as great as can be in any work whatsoever , which is for us to take notice of the admirable wisdom of god in contriving the several parts of the body of man : so that , that whole book contains in it a most full and pregnant demonstration of a deity , which every man carries about with him in the structure of his body , on which account men need not go out of themselves to find proof of a deity , whether they consider their minds or their bodies , of which it may be more truly said , then heraclitus of old did of his stove , etiam hic dii sunt . so that of all persons , i should most wonder at those whose imployment particularly leads them to the understanding the parts and nature of mans body , if the proverb be not a great injury to them , since they have fuller insight into this demonstration of a deity in the fabrick of mans body , then many others who converse only with some jejune and sapless writings . and certainly , whatever is imagined to the contrary by men of weak understandings , the best way to cure the world of atheism is true philosophy , or a search into the natures of things ; which the more deep and profound it is , the more impossible will it be found to explicate all the phaenomena of nature by meer matter and motion . it was wisely observed of a great person and philosopher , that a narrow and slight inspection into nature , enclined men of weak heads to atheism ; but a more through - insight into the causes of things , made them more evidently see the necessary dependence of things on the great and wise creator of them . a little knowledge of philosophy is apt to make mens heads dizzy , and then in danger of falling into the gulf of atheism ; but a more careful and diligent view of it , brings them into sobriety and their right wits again . such a slight inspection had the followers of epicurus into the nature of things ; for when they found how in the present state of the world the various motion and configuration of the particles of matter would handsomly salve many appearances of nature , they drunk with the success , reel presently into an infinite space , and there imagine they behold infinite worlds made of the concretion of atoms , and ever since their eyes have been so dusted with these little atoms , that they could see nothing else in the world but them . which how gross and unreasonable it is , will appear , from our present subject ; for who but lucretius or epicurus could ever think that our nostrils were at first fashioned as they are meerly by the violent impulse of the air within , which would force its self a passage out ? but how came the air into the body before it was forced out ? did it first break open the lips , make all that round cavity in the mouth , for a passage through the aspera arteria ? but if when it was in , it would come out again , was not the mouth wide enough to let it go ? or did the first man shut his mouth on purpose to finde another vent for the air ? if so , how chance the force of the air did not carry away the epiglottis ? or if it got safely up to the nose , how came it not to force a passage out about the eyes rather then to go down so low first ? but if we believe these rare contrivers of mans body , all the inward vessels of the body were made by the course of water , as channels are ; but how is it possible , to imagine that the oesophagus and the stomack should be so curiously contrived by the meer force of water ? and that all the intestines should be made only as channels to let it out again when it was once in ? but how comes then such a kind of reciprocation and peristactick motion in those vessels ? how come the several coats of them to be so firme ? if it had been only a forced passage , it would have been direct and through the substance of the parts , as we finde it to be in all forced passages in the body of the earth . besides , if the water received into the stomack forced the passage through the guts , how comes it not to run in the channel it had made for its self ? or did it not like that passage when other things came into it , and therefore found out a more secret one into the bladder ? but if that were made by the water , how came it to be so full of membranes , and so subject to dilatation ? thus ridiculous will men make themselves , rather then shew themselves men in owning and adoring that infinitely wise and powerful god , who orders all things in the world according to the counsel of his will. what can be more plain and evident then the peculiar usefulness of the several parts of mans body is ? what other intent can be imagined that man is formed with a mouth , but only for taking in of nourishment , and for receiving and letting forth of air ? or that an infant is so ready to open his mouth , but that there are breasts and milk for him to suck in order to his nourishment ? why should the oesophagus be so hollow and the stomack so wide , but that one was provided for the better conveyance of the meat down , and the other for the fermentation of it ? whence come all the other vessels to be so conveniently placed , were it not for the distribution of nourishment into the several parts , or for conveying away the excrements of it ? can any one think that the several muscles and tendons should be placed in the more solid parts for any other end then for the better motion of them ? or that the nerves should be derived from the brain into the several parts of the body for any other design then to be the instruments of sense and motion ? or that the continual motion of the heart should be for any other purpose , then for receiving and distribution of the blood through the arteries into the parts of the body ? or that the eye with all its curious fabrick should be only accidentally imployed in seeing ? these things are so plain , that however the epicureans may more easily lose themselves and deceive others in explaining the appearances of nature in some inanimate beings , yet when they come with their blind concourse of atoms to give an account of the parts of animals , they miserably befool themselves and expose themselves only to contempt and pitty . it were easie to multiply examples in this kind , but i shall only mention one thing more , which is , if all the parts of mans body have no higher original then the concourse of atoms in the first man and woman , by what were the umbilical vessels formed , whereby the child in the womb receives its nourishment ? by what atoms was the passage of the succus nutritius framed from the mother to the child ? how come those vessels to close up so naturally upon the birth of the child , and it to seek its nourishment in quite another way ? will the particles of matter which by their concretion formed the first pair , salve this too ? thus still we see how impossible it is ( to go no further then our selves ) to give any tolerable account of things without an infinite power and being which produced all these things , and hath left so plain an inscription of himself upon the works of nature , that none but those who shut their eyes can abstain from seeing it . i come now to the third evidence of a deity , which is , that there are some beings in the world which cannot depend upon matter or motion , i. e. that there are some spiritual and immaterial substances or beings ( for if the thing be acknowledged , it is unbecoming a man to contend about words ) the consequence of this for the proving a deity , neither hath been nor i suppose will be denyed by such who question an infinite being , the same principles leading to the denying and the proof of both , and immaterial beings being the strongest proof that there is something above matter in the world . if there be then such things in the world which matter and motion cannot be the causes of , then there are certainly spiritual and immaterial beings , and that i shall make appear both as to the minds of men , and to some extraordinary effects which are produced in the world . . i begin with the nature of the soul of man. and herein i must confine my self to those arguments which directly prove my present purpose , and on that account must quit all those common arguments to prove the souls immortality from the attributes of god ; for all these do suppose the existence of a deity as already evident ; neither can i rely with safety on the way which some have taken to prove the immortality of the soul meerly from the phoenomena of sensation , which they endeavour to prove cannot be performed by meer matter and motion ; for granting all this , yet the utmost that can be proved by it is no greater immort●lity in our souls then in the souls of brutes ; and in the sense in which that is admitted , i suppose an epicurean will not deny the soul of man to be immortal as demonax in lucian said , when he was asked whether the soul were immortal or no , it is ( said he ) but as all things else are ; for those who make the soul to be nothing but some more subtile and active particles of matter , do not think that upon death they are annihilated , but that only they are dispersed and dissipated , or in the platonists phrase , may return to the soul of the world . these wayes i cannot think to be sufficient probations of such a spiritual and immaterial being in man which we now enquire for , much less can i make use of so precarious and infirm an hypothesis as praeexistence , which makes men apt to suspect the cogency of such reasons which tend to prove the immortality of the soul , which are linked with a supposition , not only inevident either to sense or reason , but likewise needless and impertinent . for i know no one argument which doth directly prove the immateriality of the soul that doth in the least infer any necessity of praeexistence , but on the same accounts it will prove the souls eternity . being therefore thus at liberty to enquire into the nature of the soul considered in her self , our only way must be to finde out such peculiar properties in the soul of man , which cannot be salved on supposition there were nothing else but matter and motion in the world . supposing then that all sensation in man doth arise from corporeal motion which is so strongly asserted by the modern philosophers , and that the highest conceptions which depend on sense can amount no higher then imagination , which is evident ; if it can then be proved that there is a principle of action in man which proceeds in a different way of operation then sensation does , and that there are such operations of the soul which are not imaginations , it will be then clear that there is a principle in man higher then matter and motion . now although it be a task sufficiently difficult to explain the manner of sensation its self in a meer mechanical way , supposing no higher principle then meer matter , yet it will appear far more difficult , nay impossible without a spiritual or immaterial being to salve such appearances in man which transcend the power of imagination ; which will appear by these following operations of the mind which every one who hath it , may finde within himself . . correcting the errors of imagination . for if all our perceptions were nothing else but the images of corporeal things left in the brain , the judgement of the mind must of necessity be according to the impressions which are made upon the organs of sense . but now if our minds can and do form apprehensions of things quite different from those which are conveyed by sense , there must be a higher principle of knowledge in man then imagination is . for which the common instance of the just magnitude of the sun is very plain ; if we judge according to the image which is conveyed to the brain by our eyes , we can never imagine the sun to be bigger then he seems to us to be ; nay though the sight be advantaged by the help of telescopes , it cannot receive such an image or idea of the sun which answers to its just magnitude , viz that it is . times bigger then the earth . from whence now comes this apprehension of the bigness of the sun above that proportion which can possibly come in at our senses ? if it be said , that by the observation of the lessening of objects according to the proportion of distance , the mind may come to understand how much bigger the sun may be then he seems , i grant it ; but withall enquire how the imagination comes to have proportions and distances which are me●r respects , and can have no corporeal phantasmes whereby to be represented to it ; so that by this very way of ratiocination it is evident , that there is some principle in man beyond imagination . again when the mind by ratiocination hath proceeded thus far and sindes the sun to be so great , what idea is there of this magnitude in the mind ? the mind cannot six its self on any thing but it must have an idea of it ; from whence comes this idea ? not from corporeal phantasmes ; for none of them could ever convey the cue magnitude of the sun to the mind , and therefore the forming of this idea must be a pure act of intellection which corrects the errors of imagination , and is a principle above it . so in the sight of a stick , when under water , the representation of it by the sense to imagination is as crooked , for corporeal motion carries things to the eye without any judgement upon them ; the eye conveyes the image to the brain , and according to the rules of corporeal perception must presently take every thing for true which is conveyed thither ; now from what principle is it that this error of our senses is correcteà ? so in many other things wherein our imaginations are quite puzled , and when we go according to them , it is impossible to apprehend things as our reason tells us they are ; thus as to the antipodes , our imaginations are wholly of the mind of the ancients , that the antipodes to us must needs be in danger of knocking their heads against the stars , and if they go upon any thing , it must be their heads , and that that part of the heavens which is in the other hemisphere is below us ; these are pertinacious srrors of imagination while we adhere to that , and are only corrigible by our reason which makes it evident to be otherwise . besides , there are many things our reason and understanding inform us that they may be , and yet our imaginations can form no idea of them ; let an epicurean philosopher try the power of his imagination in his inane or infinite empty space , and he will soon finde , that as strong as his phancy is , it will soon tire and retreat as not being able to course through so unimaginable a space . so for eternal duration our reason tells us the thing is possible , but when our imaginations begin to fardle up some conceptions of it , they are presently tying both ends together ; which will make a strange idea of eternity ; the case is the same in the infinite divisibility of quantity , which epicurus was somewhat aware of when he denied the thing . but how many mathematical problems are there which will jade our imaginations presently , and yet our reason stands still and assures us of the possibility of the things , as in two lines coming nearer still to each other , and yet never meeting , and in many other things , which most clearly evidence that there is a higher faculty in man which exceeds matter and motion , when it is able thus to correct the faults and to supply the defects of imagination . . reflex acts of the mind upon its self argue a higher principle then imagination . that there are such things are evident to any one who hath any use of cogitation ; and if any one doubt of it , his very doubting argues he hath reflex acts ; for he could not doubt whether he had or no , but by reflection upon himself . now that reflex acts should be caused through matter and motion , or through meer imagination , is unconceivable . for we see no matter can act upon its self ; indeed one part of extended matter may act upon another , but not purely upon its self ; the extremities of the fingers can never feel themselves , though they may touch each other ; neither can imagination reflect on its self ; for that proceeding upon corporeal images , must have such a representation from the senses of what it acts upon ; now what image of its self can be conveyed to the imagination through the external organs of sense ? the eye may see through the motion of the objects of sight pressing upon it ; but how can it see that it sees ? so the imagination receives the images conveyed to the brain ; but what shop hath it to make new ones in of its self , and so be guilty of the greatest idolatry of worshipping its own image ? but though the imagination cannot thus reflect , yet we finde such a principle within us that is very apt to retire into its self , and recollect things which could never have been conserved so long in that shop of shadows the imagination . for if imagination be nothing else but as a modern philosopher defines it , conception remaining , and a little and little decaying from and after the act of sense , like the motion of water after a stone is thrown into it , how is it possible that at so great a distance of years , as we commonly finde , the image of a thing may be retrieved with as much facility and freshness as to circumstances , as if it were but new done ? and that account which he gives of remembrance is very weak and insufficient when he tells us , that remembrance is nothing else but the missing of parts , which every man expecteth should succeed after they have a conception of the whole . for according to this , it is impossible for the mind to retrieve any object without mutilation of it ; and so there cannot possibly be a recollecting of all circumstances , when an object is once passed , and the motion begins to decay . but all this while , we understand nothing by what means this decaying motion should continue so long as our memory can fetch things back , or by what means an object when once passed , can be recovered again if memory be nothing else but decaying motion . such perplexities must needs arise , when men will undertake to salve the inward operations of the soul by meer motion ; but is it not evident that many times when the mind is imployed about other things , some phantasmes of things long ago past will come and present themselves to the mind , with as much clearness as if new done ? whereas if memory were decaying motion , the longer past , the more impossible would it be to recover any thing ; but , do we not finde that many old men will better remember the circumstances of many things they did in their childhood then a year or two before ? besides we see what quickness and vivacity there is in our intellectual faculties above corporeal motion , with what facility the mind turns it self from one object to another , how suddenly it rangeth the whole world , how it trips over mountains , crosseth the ocean , mounts to the skies and at last quarryes upon its self , and all in the twinkling of an intellectual eye ? as quick as the eye of the body is , the mind far exceeds it , and can withdraw the imagination from attending the organs of sense ; thus do men who have their minds much fixed , fix their eyes too ; and yet afterwards can scarce tell themselves what they have looked on all that while . sometimes the mind sits and compares phantasmes together , and sports its self in sorting them into several ranks and orders , and making matches between such things which are sure to have no affinity with each other , which are thence called entia rationis or the creatures of the mind . and can all these and many other such operations which men are conscious to themselves of , be nothing else but the motion of some flegmatick matter , the reaction of the brain , and the meer effects of imagination ? . the profound speculations of the mind argue a power far above imagination and corporeal motion . i wonder how epicurus his soul , when if we believe him , it was made up of atoms , could ever imagine an infinite vacuity ? could meer atoms ever dispute whether they were atoms or no ? for i doubt not but epicurus was fain to argue much against himself , before he could perswade himself to so stupendious a piece of folly ? were there nothing in man but meer corporeal motion , whence came the dispute , whether the soul were corporeal or no ? can atoms frame syllogismes in mood and figure ? and meer matter argue pro and con , whether it be matter or something else ? what kinde of aëreal particles were their souls compounded of , who first fancied themselves to be immaterial ? what strange agitations of matter were those which first made men think of an eternal state ? which thoughts have ever since so stuck upon these little sphaerical bodyes , that they could never yet disburden themselves of them : whence come such amazing fears , such dreadful apprehensions , such sinking thoughts of their future condition in minds that would fain ease themselves by believing that death would put a period both to soul and body ? whence on the other side come such encouraging hopes , such confident expectations , such comfortable prepossessions of their future state in the souls of good men , when their bodyes are nearest to the grave ? seneca who was somewhat dubious sometimes as to the future condition of the soul , yet could tell his dear lucilius with what pleasure he could think of it ; and could elsewhere say of the soul , e● hoc habet argumentum divinitatis suae quod illum divina delectant , nec ut alienis interest sed ut suis : the soul had that mark of divinity in it , that it was most pleased with divine speculations , and conversed with them as with matters which nearly concerned it . and when it hath once viewed the dimensions of the heavens , contemnit domicilii prioris angustias , it was ashamed of the cottage it dwelt in ; nay were it not for these speculations , non fuerat operae pr●tium nasci , it had not been worth while for the soul to have been in the body ; and as he goes on , detrahe hoc inaestimabile bonum , non est vita tanti ut sudem , ut aestuem . could there be now so great an epicurisme in contemplation , were the soul of man of epicurus his mould , a meer complexion of atoms ? would dull and heavy matter ever have delighted to have searched so much into the causes of things , to have gone over the world in its speculations , and found more sweetness in knowledge , then the little epicure the bee tasts in his choicest flowers ? epicurus his own philosophy is a demonstration against himself ; if his soul had not been of a purer nature then he fancied , he would never have made his study of philosophy a part of his epicurisme ? had his soul been such atoms , as he fancied , when his brain had been well heated at his study , those more vivid and spirituous particles , like the spirits of wine had been in danger of evaporation , and leaving the more lumpish matter to compleat his work . of all persons , i most admire that philosophers who make so much use of their understandings , should so ungratefully requite them , and serve them like old horses , when they have made them do all the service they could , turn them into the high-wayes and let them dye in a ditch . but yet all philosophers have not been so unthankful ; some have understood the worth of their souls and asserted it , if they have not used too high , i. e. platonical expressions of it , making it a particle not of matter , but of the divine nature its self , a little deity in a cottage , that stayes here a while and returns to that upper region from whence it came . as manilius speaks , an dubium est habitare deum sub pectore nostro , in coelum que redire animas , caelóque venire ? and while the soul is here in its cage , it is continually fluttering up and down , and delighting to look out now at this part , and then at another , to take a view by degrees of the whole universe ; as the same poet goes on quid mirum noscere mundum si possunt homines , quibus est & mundus in ip sis : exemplumque dei quisque est in imagine parvâ ? the soul hath nothing more delightful to it then knowledge , and no knowledge so pleasing and satisfactory as of him whose image and superscription it bears , who makes himself most known to such as enquire after him ; seque ipsum inculcat & offert ut bene cognosci possit . i conclude this with that of seneca in that excellent preface to his natural questions ; o quam contempta res est homo nisi supra humana se erexerit ! what a pittiful thing is man , were it not that his soul was apt to soar above these earthly things ? and by this aptness to soar so high above these terrene objects , and to converse with so much freedome with spiritual beings , as well as abstracted notions , we may certainly infer that our rational souls are of a far more noble and refined nature , then that more feculent principle of imagination which alwayes converses in faece romuli , and can go no further then our senses carry it . and thus i have made good the first proof , that there is something above matter and motion in the world , which is from that immaterial being which is in man. the next evidence which we have of a being above matter and motion , is from the extraordinary eff●cts which have been in nature . i speak not now meerly of such things which by their natures and effects are manifested to proceed from some beings which bear ill-will to mankind , multitudes of which are related by men philosophical and inquisitive , with such enumerations of circumstances , and particular evidences , that they are not meer impostures , that one may on the same grounds question any matter of fact which himself did not see , as such relations which are delivered by persons without interest or design , and such as were able to judge of the truth of circumstances ; such are both ancient and modern philosophers , physitians , statesmen and others . neither shall i insist on such prodigies which ofttimes presage revolutions in states , if we believe machiavel himself , who in a whole chapter designedly proves it ; and professeth himself utterly to seek for the causes of them , unless they may be attributed to some spi●its and intelligences in the air which give the world notice of such things to come . but those things which i suppose have the most clear and undoubted evidence of true and undoubted miracles , ( the matters of fact being affirmed by eye-witnesses who sealed the truth of them with their lives ) are those recorded in the holy scriptures ; which there are only two wayes to evade , either by questioning the truth of the things , which i suppose in the precedent book we have proved with as much rational evidence as any thing of that nature is capable of , or else that the things therein recorded might be salved without a deity . for which only two wayes have been excogitated by atheistical spirits , either attributing them to the power and influence of the stars , the foundations of which fond and absurd opinion have been taken away by those many writers , who have rationally consuted the whole art of judicial astrology ; or else that they are done by the meer power of imagination , which is the way of avicenna and some other arabick writers , which is so wilde an effect of the power of imagination , that nothing doth so much demonstrate the irregular motions of it , as such an opinion doth ; and is sufficiently derided and refuted by pomponatius himself . now then it being an acknowledged principle in nature , that every thing continues in the course it is in , till something more powerful put it out , if then such things have been in the world , which have been real alterations of the course of nature , as the suns standing still in the time of joshua , then there must be something above matter and motion , and consequently that there is a god. chap. ii. of the origine of the universe . the necessity of the belief of the creation of the world in order to the truth of religion . of the several hypotheses of the philosophers who contradict moses : with a particular examination of them . the ancient tradition of the world consonant to moses : proved from the ionick philosophy of thales , and the italick of pythagoras . the pythagorick cabbala rather aegyptian then mosaick . of the fluid matter which was the material principle of the universe . of the hypothesis of the eternity of the world asserted by ocellus lucanus , and aristotle . the weakness of the foundations on which that opinion is built . of the manner of forming principles of philosophy . the possibility of creation proved . no arguing from the present state of the world against its beginning shewed from maimonides . the platonists arguments from the goodness of god for the eternity of the world answered . of the stoical hypothesis of the eternity of matter ; whether reconcilable with the text of moses . of the opinions of plato and pythagoras concerning the praeexistence of matter to the formation of the world . the contradiction of the eternity of matter to the nature and attributes of god. of the atomical hypothesis of the origine of the universe . the world could not be produced by a casual concourse of atoms proved from the nature and motion of epicurus his atoms , and the phaenomena of the universe , especially the production and nature of animals . of the cartesian hypothesis , that it cannot salve the origine of the universe without a deity giving motion to matter . the foundations of religion being thus established in the being of god and the immortality of the soul , we now come to erect our super structure upon them , by asserting the undoubted truth ▪ and certainty of that account of the world which is given us in the writings of moses . which beginning with the world its self leads us to a particular consideration of the origine of the universe , the right understanding of which hath very great influence upon our belief of all that follows in the word of god. for although we should assert with epicurus the being of a deity , if yet with him we add that the world was made by a casual concourse of atoms , all that part of religion which lies in obedience to the will of god is unavoidably destroyed . all that is left , is only a kind of veneration of a b●ing more excellent then our own , which reacheth not to the government of mens lives , and so will have no force at all upon the generality of the world , who are only allured by hopes or awed by fears , to that which of their choice they would be glad to be freed from . besides what expressions of gratitude can be left to god for his goodness if he interpose not in the affairs of the world ? what dependence can there be on divine goodness , if it be not at all manifested in the world ? what apprehensions can we have of gods infinite wisdom and power , if neither of them are discernable in the being of the world ? and as the opinion of epicurus destroys religion , so doth that of aristotle which attributes eternity to the universe , and a necessary emanation of it from the first cause , as light comes from the sun ; for if so , as maimonides well observes , the whole religion of moses is overthrown , all his miracles are but impostures , all the hopes which are grounded on the promises of god , are vain and fruitless . for if the world did of necessity exist , then god is no free agent ; and if so , then all instituted religion is to no purpose ; nor can there be any expectation of reward , or fear of punishment from him who hath nothing else to do in the world , but to set the great wheele of the heavens going . so much is it our concernment to enquire into the true original of the world ; and on what evidence of reason those opinions are built , which are so contrary to that account given of it in the very entrance of the b●oks of moses . wherein we read the true origine of the world to have been by a production of it by the omnipotent will and word of god. this being then the plain assertion of moses we come to compare it in point of reason , with all those several hypotheses which are repugnant to it , which have been embraced in several ages by the philosophers of greatest esteem in the world . which may be reduced to these four : . such as suppose the world to have existed as it is from all eternity . . such as attribute the formation of the world as it is to god : but withall assert the praeexistence and eternity of matter . . such as deny any eternity to the world , but assert the origine of it to have been by a casual concourse of atoms . . such as endeav●ur to explain the origine of the universe and all appearances of nature , meerly by the mechanical laws of the motion of matter . i begin with those who asserted the eternity of the world as it is among whom aristotle hath born the greatest name ; who seems to have arrogated this opinion to himself ; for when he enquires into the judgment of the philosophers , who had writ-before him , he sayes of them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , all the philosophers asserted that the world was made , though some one way , some another . and were this true which aristotle-saith , it would be the strongest prejudice against his opinion ; for if the world had been eternal , how should it come to pass , that the eldest philosophers should so readily and unanimously embrace that opinion which asserted the production of the world ? was it not a strong presumption of the novity of the universe , that all nations to whom the philosophers resorted , had memorials left among them of the first origine of things ? and from hence it is observable , that when the humour of philosophizing began to take the greeks ( about the xl. olympiad when we may suppose thales to flourish ) the beginning of the world was no matter of dispute , but taking that for granted , the enquiry was out of what material principle the universe was formed ; of which thales thus delivers his opinion in tully ; aquam dixit esse initium rerum , deum autem eam mentem quae ex aqua cuncta fingeret ; wherein he plainly distinguisheth the efficient from the material cause of the world . the prime efficient was god , the material principle water . it is a matter of some enquiry , whether the first principles of philosophy among the greeks , were not rather some traditional things conveyed to them from others , then any certain theoryes which they had formed from their own experiments and observations . the former is to me far the more probable on many accounts , but chiefly on this , that the first principles of the two founders of the chief sects of philosophers , viz. the ionick , and italick , ( for all the other were but the various issues of these two ) did come so near to that which we have the greatest reason to believe to have been the most certain account of the origine of the world . for this opinion of thales seems to have been part of that universal tradition which was continued in the world concerning the first principles of things : for i do not see any reason to aver with so much confidence , as some do , that those philosophers who spake any thing consonantly to moses , must presently converse with the iews , transcribe their opinions out of the scriptures , or have it conveyed to them in some secret cabbala of the creation , as it is affirmed of pythagoras and plato , and may be with no less reason of thales . but this i suppose may be made evident to any considerative person , that those philosophers of greece who conversed most abroad in the world , did speak far more agreeably to the true account of things , then such who only endeavoured by their own wits to improve or correct those principles which were delivered by the other philosophers . which i impute not so much to their converse with the mosaick writings , as to that universal tradition of the first ages of the world , which was preserved far better among the phaenicians , aegyptians , chaldeans , and others then among the greeks . for which we have this evident reason , that greece was far more barbarous and rude in its elder times then those other nations were , which had means of preserving some monuments and general reports of the first ages of the world when the graecians wanted them . and therefore we finde that greece from its beginning shined with a borrowed light ; and saw not by an extromission of rayes of knowledge from its self , but by an intromission of those representations of things which were received from other nations . those who formed greece first into civil societies , and licked it into the shape of well ordered commonwealths , were such who had been traders for knowledge into sorraign parts . to which purpose diodorus siculus informs us that lycurgus and solon , as well as the poets , orpheus , musaeus , melampus and homer , and the philosophers , afterwards pythagoras , plato and others , had gained most of their knowledge and wisdom out of aegypt ; nay , he saith in general , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . all those who were renowned among the greeks for wisdome and learning , did in ancient time resort to aegypt , to be acquainted with their laws and knowledge . on this account therefore we are not to seek for the ancient and genuine tradition of the world from the native and home-bred greeks , such as aristotle and epicurus , but from those who took the pains themselves to search into those records which were preserved among the elder and more knowing nations ; and although the nations they resorted to , sought to advance their own reputation in the histories of their ancient times , of which we have already given a large account , yet they were more faithful in the account which they gave of the origine of the whole universe . for it appears from diogenes laertius that the aegyptians did constantly believe , that the world had a beginning , and was corruptible ; that it was sphaerical and the stars were of the nature of fire ; that the soul was of an immortal nature , and did pass up and down the world . which lacrtius cites from hecataeus and ariscagoras . so that we need not make pythagoras acquainted with such a cabbala of the creation , which in all probability neither the iews nor he ever dreamt of ; we finde a fair account may be given of most of the opinions of pythagoras , and whence he derived them , without forcing the words of moses into such a sense , which the plainness and perspicuity of the writings of moses argue them not capable to admit of . but i will not deny from those concurrent testimonies of hermippus and aristobulus , besides origen , porphyrie , clemens alexandrinus , and others , that pythagoras might have had opportunity of conversing with the iews , ( which it is most probable was in chaldea after the captivity , at which time pythagoras was there among them ) but that pythagoras should converse with the successors of elisha on mount carmel , as v●ssius thinks , or that moschus the sidonian philosopher in iamblichus should be moses , as others fancy , or that praeexistence of souls should be part of the mosaick cabbala , or that the pythagorick numbers , as they are explained by nicomachus gerasenus in photius , should be adaequate to the dayes of the creation cabbalistically understood , are fancyes too extravagant and pythagorean to be easily embraced . if pythagoras was circumcised , it was more for love of the aegyptians then the iews , among whom he spent his twenty two years ; if praeexistence of souls be a rational hypothesis , we may thank the aegyptians for it , and not moses ; if numbers be so expressive of the work of creation , we are beholding to the arithmetical hieroglyphicks of aegypt for them . but although pythagoras might not be acquainted with such a philosophick cabbala of the creation , which none of the iews as far as we can finde understood , till one more versed in plato and pythagoras then in the learning of his own nation , viz. philo of alexandria , began first to exercise his wit on the text of moses with platonick notions ; yet i shall easily grant that pythagoras by means of his great industry and converse with the learned nations , might attain to far greater knowledge of many mysterious things in natural philosophy , and as to the origine of the universe , then any of the homebred philosophers of grecce , or it may be then any one of the nations he resorted to , because he had the advantage of comparing the several accounts of them together , and extracting out that which he judged the best of them . and hence plutarch tells us , that the first principles of the world according to pythagoras , were these two , the one was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an active and forming principle , and that was god whom he called mind ( as anaxagoras likewise did ) the other was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 passive and material , which is , the visible world . and thus we see these two renowned founders of the ionick and italick societies of philosophers , both giving their concurrent testimony with moses as to the true origine of the world , and not at all differing from each other ; for thus thales speaks in diogenes laertius , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . god is the eldest being , because unbegotten , the world the most beautiful , because it is gods workmanship . to which those expressions of plato in his timaeus come very near ( whose philosophy was for substance the same with the pythagorean ) when he had before ascribed the production of the world to the goodness of god , which goodness of his did incline him to make all other things like himself . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for the most excellent being cannot but produce the most excellent effects . and as to the material principle out of which the world was made , there appears no great difference between the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of thales , and the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of plato and pythagoras ; for plato , when he tells us what a kind of thing the material principle was , he describes it thus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which as chalcidius renders it , is motis importuno fluctuans neque unquam quiescens ; it was a visible corporeal thing ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) which was never at rest , but in continual disorderly motion and agitation : which is a full explication , i suppose , of what thales meant by his water , which is the same with that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or mixture of mud and water together , which others speak of as the principle of the universe ; as orphius in athenagoras , and the scholiast on apollonius cited by grotius and others . which we have the more reason to believe , because the successors of thales , anaximander and anaxagoras , express themselves to that purpose : anaximander called the sea 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the remainder of the primitive moisture : and anaxagoras sayes before the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or god set things in their order , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , all things were at first confused together : which must needs make that which chalcidius tells us numenius attributes to pythagoras which his translator calls sylvam fludiam , or fluid matter . which is the same likewise with the phaenicians 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which as appears by eusebius , some call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , others 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , some mud , or slime , others the putrefaction of watery mixtures , which they say was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the seedplot of the creation and the generation of things . thus we see how thales with the phaenicians from whom he was derived , as laertius tells us and pythagoras , with the aegyptians and others concur with moses , not only in the production of the world , but in the manner of it , wherein is expressed a fluid matter which was the material principle out of which the world was formed , when we are told that the earth was without form and void , and the spirit of god moved upon the face of the waters , i. e. that all at first was but fluid matter ; for p. fagius from r. kimchi renders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which fluid matter was agitated and moved by the divine spirit , or the vis plastica mundi , so chrysostom calls it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : and so drusirts and p. fagius explain 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by motion or agitation . and herein we have likewise the consent of those for●-named excellent philosophers , who attribute the origine of particular things in the world to this agitation or motion of the fluid matter . for chalcidius speaking not only of thales , pythagoras , plato , but of anaximenes , heraclitus and others , sayes thus of them , omnesigitur hi — in motu positam rerum originem censuërunt : they all agreed in this , that the origine of things was to be ascribed to the motion of the parts of matter . so the phaenicians called this motion of the particles of matter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a dark and blustering wind . and how suitable this explication of the origine of things from the motion of fluid matter is to the history of nature , appears by those many experiments by which mixt bodyes are shewed to spring from no other material principle then the particles of fluid matter . of which you may read a discourle of that ingenious and learned gentleman mr. boyle in his sceptical chymist . only thus much may here suffice to have made it appear , that all those philosophers who were most inquisitive after the ancient and genuine tradition of the world concerning the first beginning of things , did not only concur with moses in the main thing , that its beginning was from god , but in the particular circumstances of it , as to the fluid matter and the motion thereof . concerning which i may yet add ; if it be material , the testimony of homer in plutarch , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and in chalcidius : inque eadem sententia homerus esse invenitur , cum oceanum & thetim dicat parentes esse geniturae ; cumque jusjurandum deorum constituat aquam , quam quidem ipse appellat stygem , antiquitati tribuens reverentiam , & jure jaranao nihil constituens reverentius . to which purpose likewise aristotle speaks in his metaphysicks , that the reason why styx was made the oath of the gods , was because water was supposed to be the material principle of things , which he saith was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a most ancient tradition concerning the origine of the universe . and tells us before , that some were of opinion 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that the most ancient and remote persons and first writers of theology , held this opinion of water being the first material principle of things . having thus made it appear what a consent there was between the ancient tradition of the world , and the writings of moses concerning the origine of the world ; i now come to consider upon what pretence of reason this tradition came to be contradicted , and the eternity of the world asserted . for which we are to consider that the difference of the former philosophers of the ionick sect , after the time of thales , as to the material principle of the world , one substituting air , another fire instead of water , rendred the tradition its self suspected among other philosophers , especially when the humour of innovating in philosophy was got among them , and they thought they did nothing unless they contradicted their masters ; thence came that multiplicity of sects presently among them , and that philosophy which at first went much on the original tradition of the world , was turned into disputes and altercations , which helped as much to the finding out of truth , as the fighting of two cocks on a dunghil doth the finding out the iewel that lyes there . for which , scraping and searching into the natures of things had been far more proper , then contentions & wranglings with each other ; but by means of this litigious humour philosophy from being a design grew to be a meer art , and he was accounted the best philosopher , not that searched further into the bowels of nature , but that dressed and tricked up the notions he had in the best posture of defence against all who came to oppose him . from hence those opinions were most plausible , not which were most true , but which were most defensible , and which like des-cartes his second element , had all the angles cut off , on which their adversaries might have an advantage of justling upon them , and then their opinions were accounted most pure when they were so sphaerical , as to pass up and down without interruption . from such a degeneracy of philosophy as this we have now mentioned , arose the opinion of the eternity of the world ; for the certain tradition of the world being now lost in a croud of philosophers , whose main aim was to set up for themselves , and not to trade with the common bank , so that there could be no certain and convictive evidence given to a shuffling philosopher that things were ever otherwise then they are , they found it most defensible to assert that the world never had a beginning nor would have an end , but alwayes did and would continue in the state they were in . this opinion , though aristotle seems to make all before him to be of another mind , yet was hatched as far as we can finde at first , under pythagoras his successors by ocellus lu●anus , as appears by his book still extant 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the nature of the universe ; to whom aristotle hath not been a little beholding , as ludov. nogarola hath in part manifested in his notes on ocellus , although aristotle had not the ingenuity of pliny , agnoscere per quos profecerit . from aristotle this opinion , together with his name , spread its self much farther , and became the opinion most in vogue among the heathen philosophers , especially after the rise of christianity ; for then not only the peripateticks , but the modern platonists , plotinus , apuleius , taurus , iamblichus , alcinous , proclus and others were all engaged in the defence of the eternity of the world , thinking thereby the better to overthrow christianity . hence came the hot and eager contests between proclus , simplicius , and philoponus , who undertook to answer proclus his eighteen arguments for the eternity of the world , and to charge aristotle with self-contradiction in reference to it . but nothing were they more troubled about then to reconcile the timaeus of plato with the eternity of the world , which they made to be a meer hypothesis and a kind of diagramme to salve providence withall ; although the plain words of pl●to not only there but elsewhere do express , as far as we can judge by his way of writing , his real judgement to have been for the production of the world by god. for which purpose we have this observable testimony in his sophista , where he divides all manner of productions of things into divine and humane , and opposes the opinion that conceived all things to be produced by an eternal power , to the opinion of the vulgar which saith he , was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that all things were produced by a blind force of nature without any reason or counsel , to which he opposeth the other opinion , that they are made 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by a divine power with infinite reason and wisdom ; and when theaetetus expresseth himself in an academical way as to either of these opinions , the hospes eleatensis who there acts the part of the philosopher , tells him , if he thought he were inclinable to the other opinion , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . he would undertake to make him confess the contrary by the evidence of reason which he would bring . and we shall see what great reason there is for this opinion , when we consider what weak and infirm foundations the contrary is built upon . for all the arguments which either ocellus , or aristotle , or the modern platonists make use of , are built on these following suppositions which are all false . . that it is unconceivable that things should ever have been in any other state then they are . . that there is no other way of production but by generation . . that god is no free agent , but produceth the world by necessity of nature . . that it is unconceivable that things should ever have been any otherwise then they are . the reason of which supposition was this , that the general conclusions of reason which they proceed upon in philosophy , were taken up from the observation of things as they are at present in the world . which is evident from the ground of aristotles condemning the opinion of empedocles who asserted the production of the world , and yet the incorruptibility of it . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which he accounts impossible and gives this as his reason . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for , saith he , nothing else can be rationally asserted , but what we finde to be in all things or at least in most ; now because there could nothing be found in the world which was produced ( i. e. by generation ) and yet was incorruptible , therefore he concludes it impossible it should be so with the universe . by which we evidently see what the grand principles of reason among the philosophers were : viz. such observations as they had made from the present course of nature in the order of the universe . from hence arose that strong presumption among them , which hath been so taken for granted , that it hath been looked on as a common notion of bumane nature , viz. exnihilo nihil fit , which was the main argument used by them to prove the eternity of the world : and by others to prove the praeexistence of matter . so ocellus argues against both the dissolution and production of the world from this principle ; if the world be dissolved , saith he , it must either be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , either into that which is , or into that which is not ; it cannot be dissolved into that which is , because then the universe cannot be destroyed ; for that which is , is either the universe or a part of it : neither can it be dissolved into that which is not , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for it is impossible that a thing should be made out of that which is not , or be dissolved into nothing . and aristotle somewhere tells us , that it is a principle which all the writers of natural philosophy are agreed in ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) which is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that it is impossible for any thing to come out of nothing . but now when we observe upon what grounds this principle was took up by these philosophers , we have no reason to admit of it as an universal standard of nature . for we finde by these naturalists who thus asserted this principle , that when they go about to prove it , it is only from the course of generations in the world , or from the works of art , both which suppose matter praeexistent , and from these short collections they form this universal maxime . and from hence when they discoursed of the manner whereby god did produce the world , their imaginations ran presently upon that which the epicurean in tully enquires after , quae molitio ? quaeferramenta ? qui vectes ? quae machinae ? qui ministri tanti oper is fuërunt ? they apprehend god only as an artificer that contrives the world first into a platform , and then useth instruments to erect it , and consequently still suppose the matter ready for him to work upon . so true is that of balbus in tully when he comes to discourse of the nature of god ; in quo nihil est difficilius quam à consuetudine oculorum aciem mentis abducere ; nothing is more difficult then to abstract our minds from the observations of this visible world when we se●k to apprehend the nature of the deity . thus we see upon what general grounds the philosophers proceeded , and from what they took them , and how insufficient any collections from the present order of the universe are to determine any thing concerning its production by . for supposing a production of the world , several things must of necessity be supposed in it , different from what the present order of the world is ; and it is an unreasonable thing to argue from a thing when it is in its greatest perfection , to what must alwaies have been in the same thing ; for by this means we must condemn many things for falsities which are apparently true , and believe many others to be true which are apparently false . for which maimonides useth an excellent fim litude . suppose , saith he , one of exquisite natural parts , whose mother dies assoon as he is born , and his father brings him up in an island , where he may have no society with mankind till he be grown up to years of understanding , and that he never saw any female of either man or beast : suppose now this person to enquire of the first man he speaks with how men are born , and how they come into the world . the other tells him , that every man is bred in the womb of one of the same kind with our selves , thus and thus formed ; and that while we are in the womb we have a very little body , and there move , and are nourished , and we grow up by little and little till we come to such a bigness , and then we come forth into the world , and yet grow still till we come to such a proportion as we are of . here presently this young man stops him and enquires , when we were thus little in the womb and did live , move , and grow , did we not eat and drink , and breath at our mouth and nostrils as we do now ? did we not ease nature as now we do ? if it be answered him , no ; them he presently is ready to deny it , and offers to bring demonstrations that it was utterly impossible it should be so . for , saith he , if either of us , cease breathing but for an hour , our motion and life is gone ; how is it then possible for one of us though never so little , to live and move in the womb for so many months , when it is so close and shut up & in the middle of the body ? if one of us , saith he , should swallow a little bird , it would resently dye as soon as it came into the stomack , how much more if it were in the belly ? if we should be but for few dayes without eating and drinking , we could not live ; how can a childe then continue so many months without it ? again if one doth eat and not void the excrements of what he eats , he will be kild with it in few dayes ; how can it possibly be otherwise with a child ? if it be replyed that there is a passage open in the belly at which the child receives his nourishment , he will presently say that it is as impossible as the other ; for if our bellyes were so open , we should be quickly destroyed . and again if the child bath all its limbs perfect and sound , how comes it not to open its eyes , use the feet , mouth and hands as we do ? and so concludes it impossible that man should ever be born after this manner . much after this way , saith that excellent author , do aristotle and others argue against the production of the world ; for if the world were produced , say they , it must have been thus and thus , and it is impossible that it should have been so : why ? because we see things are otherwise now in the world . which how infirme a way of arguing , it appears from the consideration of the former similitude , in which the arguments are as strong to prove the impossibility of that which we know to be true ; as in the case about which we dispute . and this now leads us to the second false hypothesis which the opinion of the worlds eternity was founded on , which is , that there is no other way of production but by generation . most of the arguments which are used by ocellus and aristotle against the production of the world , run upon this supposition , that it must be generated as we see things are in the world . so ocellus argues 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . every thing that comes into being and is subject to dissolution , hath two observable mutations in it ; the one is whereby it grows from less to greater , and from worse to better , and this is called generation , and the height of this mutation , perfection ; the other begins from better to worse , and from bigger to less , and the conclusion of this is , corruption and dissolution . but now , saith he , if the world had a beginning , there would be such a mutation in it , and it would have grown by degrees greater till it had come to its perfection , and from thence it would sensibly decay till it came to dissolution ; but no body hath ever observed such a mutation in the world , neither is there any appearance of it ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; but the world is semper idem , it varyes not nor alters any thing from its self . for which , he particularly instanceth in the courses , symmetryes , figures , positions , intervals , proportions of motion which are in the world , which things are all capable of such a mutation , yet we see no such thing in the universe , from whence he infers that the universe was alwayes and will be as it is . upon the same principle doth aristotle dispute for the eternity of the world from the nature of his materia prima , because if the first matter were generated it must be generated of other matter and so in infinitum ; and so he argues from the nature of the heavens that they are not capable of generation and corruption as other bodyes are . all which arguments signifie no more then this , that the world was not generated as plants or animals are ; and who ever right in his wits asserted that it was ? but do any of these arguments prove it impossible that god having infinite power should produce the universe after another way then any of those things are produced in , which we observe in the world ? for we assert an infinite and eternal being which was the efficient cause of the world , who by his omnipotcut power produced it out of nothing , and continues it in its being ; which is well expressed by the author of the refutation of aristotle in iustin martyrs works . we assert , saith he , one god who is eternal himself , that hath nothing else coaeval with himself , neither by way of subjection or opposition , whose power is so great that nothing can hinder it , by which power he produced the world . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; which hath no other cause , either of its beginning , or of its being , or continuance , but only his will. who sully answers in a philosophical manner , the particular allegations out of aristotle , concerning the eternity of the world : his design being , as he saith , to shew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . that the greek philosophers in their discourses concerning god and the creation , were very far from being as good as their word to observe the laws of demonstration , but instead of them proceeded only upon opinions and conjectures . and as to this particular of the possibility of another way of production , besides that of generation , he proves it from aristotles own opinion , from the equal necessity of the existence of matter , as of god. for , saith he , if god can produce any thing out of matter , which is as necessarily existent as himself , he may produce something out of nothing . for , the same repugnancy that there is in that which is absolutely nothing to be produced , the same must there be in that which is necessarily existent . how then can god produce something out of matter , which necessarily exists , & not be able to produce something out of nothing ? for if matter have its original from its self , how can it be subject to the power of another ? and besides , if we acknowledge god to have his being from himself , and on that account attribute infinite power to him , by the same reason we must attribute it to matter . but whatever hath infinite power in its self , hath a power upon something beyond its self ; but if god and matter have it both , they can never have power upon each other , or without themselves . which is a far greater absurdity then the meer asserting a power to produce something out of nothing , which is implyed in the very notion of infinite power ; for if it be confined to any matter , the power is not infinite , because we cannot but conceive the bounds of it ; for it extends no further then matter doth . so that a power of creation is implyed in the very notion of a deity ; and therefore it is a meer sophism to argue because the world could not be generated , therefore it could not be produced , unless any other way of production but by generation , be proved impossible . a third false hypothesis they proceeded on was this , that the being of the world was no effect of gods will , but of the necessity of nature . for although the philosophers we now speak of , did-assert a deity , which in some sense might be called the cause of the world , yet they withall asserted that the world was coaeval with god himself , and so though there might be some priority in order of causes between them , yet there was none in order of time , or duration , as we see the light , though it flows from the sun , yet the sun is never without light . this aristotle he proves from the necessity of motion and time : for , saith he , what ever is moved , must be moved by something else , and cons●quently there must be a running in infinitum ; but this runs on a false supposition of the necessity of a continual physical motion in things , which we deny , since god by his infinite power may give motion to that which had it not before ; and so all that can be proved , is the necessity of some first cause which we assert , but no necessity at all of his continual acting , since he may cause motion when he please . and for time continually existing , it denotes nothing real in its self existing , but only our manner of conception of the duration of things , as it is conceived to belong to motion ; and so can argue nothing as to the real existence of things from all eternity . but the later platonists look upon these as insufficient wayes of probation , and therefore argue from those attributes of god , which they conceive most necessary and agreeable to gods nature ; and by which the world was produced if at all : so that by the same arguments whereby we prove that the world was made by god , they prove it to have been from all eternity . it was well and truly said of plato in his timaeus , that the goodness of god was the cause of the production of the world ; from which speech the more modern platonists gather a necessity of the worlds eternity ; for from hence they infer , that since god was always good , he must always have an object to exercise his goodness upon ; as the sun disperseth his light assoon as he is himself . true , were god of the nature of the sun , it would be so with him ; or were the sun of the nature of god , it would not be so with it . but there is this vast difference between them , that though god be essentially and necessarily good , yet the communications of this goodness are the effect of his will , and not meerly of his nature ; for were not the acts of beneficence and goodness in god the free acts of his will , man must be made as happy as he was capable of being , not only upon his first existence in the world , but as long as it should continue , by meer necessity of nature without any intervention of the will or actions of men . and so there could be no such difference as that of good and bad men in the world ; for if the lettings forth of gods goodness to the world be so necessary , all men must become necessarily good , if gods goodness be so great as to be able to make men so ; which i suppose will not be questioned . by this then we see that the communications of gods goodness to the world are free , and depend upon the eternal counsels of his will , which is a depth too great for us to approach , or look into ; by what necessity then , if god be a free agent , and of infinite wisdom , as well as goodness , must we either assert the eternity of the world , or fear to deprive god of his essential goodness ? whereas to make the communications of gods goodness ad ▪ extra necessary , and therefore to make the world from eternity , that he might have an object to exercise his goodness on , is to take as much off from the infinite perfection and self sufficiency of the divine nature as it would seem to flatter his goodness . for god cannot be himself without his goodness ; and if his goodness cannot be without some creature to shew or display it upon , god cannot be perfect nor happy without his creatures because these are necessary issues of his goodness ; and consequently we make the being of the creatures necessary to his being god. which is the highest derogation from the absolute perfection of the divine nature . we assert then so much goodness in god , as none can be imagined greater ; we assert , that it was the communication of this divine goodness which gave being to the world ; but withall we acknowledge god to be an agent infinitely wise and free , who dispenseth this goodness of his in such a way and manner as is best pleasing to himself , though ever agreeable to his nature . as god is infinitely good in himself , so whatever he doth is suitable to this nature of his ; but the particular determinations of the acts of gods beneficence belong to the will of god , as he is a most free and independent agent ; so that goodness as it imports the necessary rectitude of the divine nature , implyes a perfection inseparable from the true idea of god ; but as it is taken for the expressions of divine bounty to somewhat without , as the object of it , it is not implyed in our conception of god , as to his nature , but belongs to the free determinations of his will. we cannot then , neither ought we to determine any thing concerning the particular ways of gods bounty towards the whole universe , or any part of it , any further then god himself hath declared it to us . now we see the world exists , we have cause to adore that goodness of god , which not only gave a being to the universe , but continually upholds it , and plentifully provides for all the creatures which he hath made in it . which the heathen was so sensible of , that the stoick in tully taking notice of the abundant provision which is made in the world , not only for mans necessity , but for delight and ornament , cryes out , ut interdum pronaea nostra epicurea esse videatur : gods providence doth abundantly exceed mans necessity . we see then from this discourse , how unsafe and unsatisfactory ( that i may not say bold and presumptuous ) those arguments are , which are drawn from a general consideration of the divine nature and goodness , without regard had to the determinations of his will , as to the existence of things in the world . it cannot certainly then be an argument of any great force with any candid enquirers after truth and reason , which hath been lately pleaded in the behalf of that pythagorean hypothesis of the praeexistence of souls , viz. that if it be good for mens souls to be at all , the sooner they are , the better ; but we are most certain that the wisdom and goodness of god will do that which is best ; and therefore if they can enjoy themselves before they come into these terrestrial bodies ( it being better for them to enjoy themselves then not ) they must be before they come into these bodies . wherefore the praeexistence of souls is a necessary result of the wisdom and goodness of god , who can no more fail to do that which is best , then he can to understand it . i now seriously enquire of such who love reason above plato and pythagoras , whether if the eternity of the world were put into the argument instead of the praeexistence of souls , this argument would not hold as strongly for that , as it doth for praeexistence ; and if i am bound to believe praeexistence on this ground , i be not likewise bound to believe at least the souls of men eternal , if not the universe . but how reconcileable the eternity of the world is to the pythagorick cabbala of the creation , i am yet to understand . but if this argument doth not at all infer the eternity of the world , as we have shewed it doth not , much less doth it praeexistence of souls . we have thus far considered the first hypothesis , which is repugnant to moses concerning the origine of the universe , which is that which asserts the eternity of the world as it is ; we come now to the second , which attributes the formation of the world as it is , to god as the efficient cause , but attributes eternity to the matter out of which the world was framed . i am not ignorant that some who would be taken for the masters of reason , are so far from conceiving this hypothesis to be repugnant to the text of moses , that they conceive it to be the genuine sense of it , viz. that there was a praeexistent matter , out of which god formed the world. but i would willingly understand how moses would have expressed that matter its self was created , supposing it had been his intention to have spoken it ; for although the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may not of its self imply necessarily the production of things out of nothing , i. e. out of no praeexistent matter ; yet it is acknowledged by all that no word used by the iews is more proper to that then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is ; and p. fagius cites it from r. nachmani , that the hebrew language hath no other word to signifie such a production out of nothing but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . it is therefore a very weak manner of arguing , that because 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is sometimes used for no more then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , therefore the world was created out of praeexistent matter ; all that can rationally be inferd , is , that from the meer force and importance of that word the contrary cannot be collected : but if other places of scripture compared , and the evidence of reason , do make it clear that there could be no praeexistent matter which was uncreated , then it will necessarily follow that creation must be taken in its proper sense . and in this sense it is evident , that not only iews and christians , but even the heathens themselves understood moses , as is plain by galen , where he compares the opinion of moses with that of epicurus , and ingenuously confesseth that of moses , which attributed the production of things to god , to be far more rational and probable then that of epicurus which assigned the origine of things to a meer casual concourse of atoms : but withal adds , that he must dissent from both ; and sides with moses as to the origine of such things as depend on generation , but asserts the praeexistence of matter , and withall that gods power could not extendits self beyond the capacity of the matter which it wrought upon . atque id est , saith he , in quo ratio nostra ac platonis , tum aliorum qui apud graecos de rerum natura recte conscripserunt , à mose dissidet . how true these words are , will appear afterwards . chaleidius in his commentaries on plato's timaeus , where he speaks of the origine of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which in him is still translated sylva , and enquires into the different opinions of all philosophers about it , takes it for granted that according to moses , this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 had its production from god. hebraei sylvam generatam esse confitentur ; quorum sapientissimus moyses non humana facundia , sed divina , ut ferunt , inspiratione vegetatus , in eo libro , qui de genitura mundi censetur , ab exordio sic est profatus , juxta interpretationem lxx . prudentium ; initio deus fecit coelum & terram . terra autem erat invisibilis & incompta . ut vero ait aquila : caput rerum condidit deus coelum & terram ; terra porro inanis erat & nihil ; vel nt symachus ; ab exordio condidit deus coelum & terram . terra porro fuit otiosum quid , confusumque , & inordinatum . sed origenes asseverat ita sibi ab hebraeis esse persuasum , quod in aliquantum sit à vera proprietate derivata interpretatio . fuisse enim in exemplari , terra autem stupida quadam erat admiratione . omnia tamen haec in unum aiunt concurrere , ut & generata sit ●a quae subjecta est universo corpori , sylva , sermonesque ipsos sic interpretantur . where we finde by the testimony of chalcidius an universal consent as to the production of the universal corporeal matter by god ; for that is all which is understood by his term of generata est . but this same author afterwards tells us , that by heavens and earth in the first verse of genesis we are not to understand the visible heavens and earth : for , saith he , the heavens which are called the firmament , were created after , and on the third day when the waters were separated , the dry land appeared , which was called earth . qui tumultuario contenti sunt intellectu , coelum hoc quod videmus , & terram qua subvehimur , dici putant ; porro qui altius indagant , negant , hoc coelum ab initio factum , sed secundo die . and therefore by the heavens he understands incorpoream naturam , and by earth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or the primigenial matter . and this , saith he , appears by the following words , the earth was invisible , and without form ; i. e. this corporeal matter , before it was brought into order by the power and wisdom of god , remained a rude and indigested lump ; and that which is so , might well be called invisible , and without form . and therefore it is called inanis and nihil , because of its capacity of receiving all forms , and having none of its own . symmachus calls it otiosa & indigesta ; the former because of its inability to produce any thing of its self : the latter because it wanted a divine power to bring it into due order . that stupidity and admiration which origen attributes to it , he conceives to relate to the majesty of god , who was the orderer and contriver of it , siquidem opificis & auctoris sui majestate capta stuperet . thus we see that according to moses , the first matter of the world was produced by god , which is largely manifested by origen against the marcionists , a fragment of which is extant in his philocalia ; and by tertullian against hermogenes , and others , who from the opinion of the praeexistence of matter are called materiarii . having thus cleared the sense of moses , it is far more difficult to find out the true opinions of the ancient philosophers concerning the production or eternity of corporeal matter , there having been so great dissensions , not only about the thing its self , but about the opinions of some about it . for it is plain by plutarchs 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as well as the discourses of the later platonists , how eager some have been to interpret plato's timaeus in favour of the eternity at least of matter , if not of the world . but although plato doth assert therein a praeexistence of rude matter before the formation of the world , yet i see no reason why he should be otherwise understood then in the same sense that we believe a chaos to have gone before the bringing the world into the order it is now in . and in that sense may those places in plutarch be interpreted , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so likewise those following words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; for the meaning may be no more then that plato conceived that all the productions of the kinds of things which are in the the world , was out of a praeexistent hyle , the one spiritual and intelligible , out of which he supposed souls to be formed , the other sensible and corporeal , out of which other beings which were more gross and material , were produced . so chalcidius tells us , that both pythagoras and plato looked upon constitutionem sylvae to be opus providentiae : which i suppose relates not only to the bringing of matter into form , but to the production of matter its self . but after this he takes a great deal of pains to search out the true meaning of plato concerning the origine of hyle , and mentions the great diss●nsions among the platonists about it , and the obscurity of the timaeus in it . to him therefore i refer the reader : who likewise brings in numenius largely discoursing concerning the opinion of pythagoras about it , who condemns all those , as not understanding pythagoras , who attribute to him the production of the indeterminate hyle . these are his words , numenius ex pythagorae magisterio stoicorum hoc de initiis dogma refellens , pythagorae dogmate , cui concinere dicit dogma platonicum , ait pythagoram , deum quidem singularitatis nominasse col. nomine appellasse , sylvam vero duitatis . quam duitatem indeterminatam quidem , minime genitam , limitatam vero , generatam esse dicere . hoc est , antequam exornaretur quidem , formamque & ordinem nancisceretur , sine ortu & generatione ; exornatam vero at que illustratam , à digestore deo esse generatam . atque it a quia generationis sit fortuna posterior , inornatum illud minime generatum , aequaevum deo , à quo est ordinatum , intelligi debeat . sed nonnullos pythagoreos , vim sententiaenon recte assccutos , putasse , dici etiam illam indeterminatam & immensam duitatem , ab una singularitate institutam , recedente à natura sua singularitate , & in duitatis habitum migrante . but however these pythagoreans might be deceived , who thought the unity its self became the duity ; yet it is evident by numenius , that he looked on the undetermined and confused matter to have been coaeval with god himself and not produced by him . and if numenius be as much to be credited in this as when he calls plato moses atticus , then the creation of universal matter can be no part of pythagoras his philosophick cabala . but whatever were the opinions of plato and pythagoras concerning the first origine of matter , we are certain that the stoicks generally asserted the improduction of matter , and make that to be as necessary a passive principle for the being of the world , as god is the active and efficient cause . so diogenes laertius reports of the stoical principles concerning the origine of the universe : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . they make two principles of the universe , one active , and the other passive ; the passive , an essence without quality , called hyle or confused matter ; the active , the reason which acts in the other , which is god. these two principles seneca calls causa & materia ; ●sse vero debet , saith he , aliquid unde fiat ; deinde à quo fiat , hoc causa est , illud materia . although seneca seems to make a query of it elsewhere ; quantum deus possit ? materiam ipse sibi formet , an datâ utatur ? but zeno is express in stobaeus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the first essence of all is matter , which is eternal , and not capable of accession or diminution . to the same purpose chalcidius speaks , stoici ortum sylvae rejiciunt , quin potius iosam & deum , duo totius rei sumunt initia ; d●um ut opificem ; sylvam ut quae operationi subjiciatur . una quidem essentia praeditos facientem , & quod fit ac patitur , id corpus esse ; diversa vero virtute ; quia faciat , deum ; quia fiat , sylvam ●sse . having now found out the certain assertors among the heathen philosophers of the eternity and improduction of matter as the passive principle of things , we come to examine the reason of this hypothesis , and whether there were foundation enough for this matter to subsist upon from all eternity ? it might be sufficient prejudice against this opinion , that it was built on the same infirm conclusions which that of the eternity of the whole world was , viz. that maxime which lipsius attributes to demoeritus , but was embraced by all those philosophers who denyed production of matter , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that nothing could be produced out of nothing , nor could return into nothing ; which as we have already said , was only taken up from the established order of the universe , and the manner of production of material beings . but this is not all we have to charge this hypothesis with ; for , . it is repugnant to the natural notion of a deity , which must imply in it an omnipotent power ; for otherwise we degrade him to the imbecillity of finite creatures , if he cannot produce any thing which doth not imply a contradiction : but what contradiction is there in this , that god should give a being to that which had none before ? for that is all we understand by creation , viz. the producing of something out of nothing , or which had nothing out of which it was prod●ced . now what repugnancy is there to any free principle of reason , that a power infinite should raise an insect into being without any passive principle out of which it was caused ; and if an infinite power can do that , it may as well produce the world out of nothing , else the power would not be infinite ; for it would have its bounds set , that thus far it could go and no further . now if such a power in god implyes no contradiction in its self , i say the asserting the necessary existence of matter implyes a contradiction to this power . for , . a power to produce something out of nothing would be to no purpose , if a p●ssive principle or praeexistent matter be necessary to the production of any thing ; and so that being which hath a power to produce something out of nothing , hath only a power to produce something out of something , which is a plain contradiction . . if god hath a power to produce something out of nothing , either this power doth extend to the production of this matter , or not ; if it doth , then it depends on him ; if not , his power is not infinite , and so the same power is infinite and not infinite ; which is another contradiction . so that it is plainly repugnant to the notion of a god to assert the necessary and eternal existence of matter . . if matter be unproduced , then necessary existence must belong to it as well as to god ; and if necessary existence belongs to matter , infinite power must belong to it too ; for what ever necessarily exists , is self-originated ; what ever is self-originated , could not by any cause whatsoever be hindered from being ; what cannot by any cause be hindered from being , hath infinite power ; what hath infinite power , may produce any thing , and is god , and so matter cannot be a meer passive principle , but must be an active , and so must be god himself , or else there must be more gods then one . to an argument something of this nature hermogenes in tertullian replyes , that matter would not lose the name or nature of matter , because of its coeternity with god , neither could it be god meerly on that account , unless it had other things that were agreeable to the nature of god as well as that . but i have already shewed that necessary existence implyes other perfections going along with it : which is likewise thus proved by tertullian in answer to hermogenes ; the reason of the imperfections which are to be seen in any creatures , is from hence , that they derive their beings from a higher cause , who creates them in what order he pleases ; but that which hath its original from its self , must on that account want those imperfections which other creatures in the world have ; and therefore if necessary existence be of the nature of matter , all other perfections must belong to it too : and so there can be no superiority and inferiority between god and matter , because on both sides there will be necessary existence . divinitas gradum non habet , utpote unica : and so the eternal existence of matter is repugnant to the unity of god. . it is repugnant to the independency of god : for it makes god subject to matter , and not matter to god. for if god cannot produce any thing without praeexistent matter , the matter is necessary to his action , and so god must depend on that which he can do nothing without ; and so gods using matter , is as tertullian speaks , ex necessitate mediocritatis suae , to help him in the production of things . nemo non subjicitur ci cujus eget ut possit uti , as he goes on . thus matter at last is crept above the deity , that god can do nothing without its aid and concurrence ; and so as tertullian sharply sayes , god is beholding to matter for ever being known to the world ; grande beneficium deo contulit ut haberet hodie per quam deus cognosceretur , & omnipotens vocaretur , nisi quod jam non omnipotens , si non & hoc potens ex nihilo omnia proferre . thus we see how irreconcilable this hypothesis is with these attributes of god. . it is repugnant to the immensity of god. for either god did exist separate from this eternal matter , or was conjoyned with it ; if conjoyned with it , then both made but one being , as maximus , or orig●n argues ; if separate from it , then there must be something between them , and so there will be three real improduced things . if it be answered that they are neither conjoyned nor separate , but god is in matter as in his proper place , as the stoicks asserted , it is easily replyed , that either then he is in a part of matter , or the whole matter ; if in a part only , he cannot be immense ; if in the whole as his adaequate place , how could he then ever frame the world ? for either he must then recede from that part in which he was , and contract himself into a narrower compass that he might fashion that part of the world which he was about , or else he must likewise frame part of himself with that part of the world which he was then framing of , which consequence is unavoidable on the stoical hypothesis of gods being corporeal and confined to the world as his proper place . and so much for this second hypothesis concerning the origine of the universe , which supposeth the eternity of matter as coexisting with god. i come now to that which makes most noise in the world , which is the atomical or epicurean hypothesis , but will appear to be as irrational as either of the foregoing , as far as it concerns the giving an account of the origine of the universe . for otherwise supposing a deity which produced the world and put it into the order it is now in , and supremely governs all things in the world , that many of the phaenomena of the universe are far more intelligibly explained by matter and motion then by substantial forms , and real qualities , few free and unprejudiced minds do now scruple . but because these little particles of matter may give a tolerable account of many appearances of nature , that therefore there should be nothing else but matter and motion in the world , and that the origine of the universe should be from no wiser principle then the casual concourse of these atoms , is one of the evidences of the proneness of mens minds to be intoxicated with those opinions they are once in love with . when they are not content to allow an hypothesis its due place and subserviency to . god and providence , but think these atoms have no force at all in them unless they can extrude a deity quite out of the world . for it is most evident that it was not so much the truth as the serviceableness of this hypothesis , which hath given it entertainment among men of atheistical spirits . epicurus himself in his epistle to pythocles urgeth that as a considerable circumstance in his opinion that he brought no god down upon the stage to put things in order , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which his paraphrast lucretius hath thus rendered ; nequaquam nobis divinitus esse paratam naturam rerum . if this opinion then be true , the history of the creation quite falls to the ground , on which account we are obliged more particularly to consider the reason of it . the hypothesis then of epicurus is , that before the world was brought into that form and order it is now in , there was an infinite empty space in which were an innumerable company of solid particles or atoms of different sizes and shapes , which by their weight were in continual motion , and that by the various occursions of these all the bodies of the universe were framed into that order they now are in . which is fully expressed by dionysius in eusebius , and very agreeably to the sense of epicurus in his epistles to herodotus and pythocles , and to what plutarch reports of the sense of epicurus , though he names him not ( if at least that book be his which muretus denyes ) the words of dionysius are these concerning the epicureans , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so that according to this opinion , all the account we have of the origine of the world , is from this general rendes-vous of atoms in this infinite space , in which after many encounters and facings about , they fell into their several troops , and made up that ordered battalia which now the world is the scheme of . it was not imprudently done of epicurus to make the worlds infinite , as well as his space and atoms ; for by the same reason that his atoms would make one world , they might make a thousand ; and who would spare for worlds , when he might make them so easily ? lucretius gives us in so exact an account of the several courses the atoms took up in disposing themselves into bodyes , as though he had been muster-master-general at that great rendes-vous ; for thus he speaks of his atoms , quae quia multimodis , multis mutata per omne ex infinito vexantur percita plagis , omne genus motus & caetus experiundo , tandem deveniunt in taleis disposituras , qualibus haec rebus consistit summa creata . and more particularly afterwards ; sed quia multa modis multis primordia rerum ex infinito jam tempore percita plagis , ponderibusque suis consuërunt concita ferri , omnimodisque coire , atque omnia pertentare , quaecunque inter se possunt congressa creare ; ut non sit mirum , si in taleis disposituras deciderunt queque , & in taleis venere meatus , qualibus haec rerum ●enitur nunc summa novando . thus we see the substance of the epicurean hypothesis , that there were an infinite number of atoms , which by their frequent occursions did at last meet with those of the same nature with them , and these being conjoyned together made up those bodyes which we see : so that all the account we are able to give according to this hypothesis of all the phaenomena of the universe , is from the fortuitous concourse of the atoms in the first forming of the world , and the different contexture of them in bodies . and this was delivered by the ancient epicureans not with any doubt or hesitation , but with the greatest confidence imaginable . so tully observes of velleius the epicurean , beginning his discourse , fidenter sane ut solent isti , nihil tam verens quam ne dubitare de aliqua re videretur ; tanquam modo ex deorum concilio , & ex epicuri intermundiis descendisset : confidence was the peculiar genius of that sect , which we shall see in them to be accompanied with very little reason . for those two things which make any principles in philosophy to be rejected , this atomical hypothesis is unavoidably charged with : and those are , if the principles be taken up without sufficient ground in reason for them ; and if they cannot give any sufficient account of the phaenomena of the world . i shall therefore make it appear , that this hypothesis , as to the origine of the universe , is first , meerly precarious , and built on no sufficient grounds of reason . secondly , that it cannot give any satisfactory account of the origine of things . . that it is a precarious hypothesis , and hath no evidence of reason on which it should be taken up ; and that will be proved by two things . . it is such an hypothesis as the epicureans themselves could have no certainty of according to their own principles . . that the main principles of the hypothesis its self are repugnant to those catholick laws of nature which are observed in the universe . . the epicureans according to their own principles could have no certainty of the truth of this hypothesis . and that . because they could have no certain evidence of its truth . . because their way of proving it was insufficient . . that they could have no certain evidence of the truth of it , i prove from those criteria , which epicurus lays down as the only certain rules of judging the truth of things by ; and those were sense , anticipation and passion . let sense be never so infallible a ruie of judgement , yet it is impossible there should be any evidence to sense of the truth of this hypothesis ; and let him extend his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as long as he please , which was his great help for correcting the errors of sense , viz. as it was in the roman court when the case was not clear , ampliandum est ; so epicurus would have the object represented every way it could be before he past his judgement ; yet this prudent caution would do him no good for this hypothesis , unless he were so wise as to stay till this world were crumbled into atoms again , that by that he might judge of the origine of it . there is but one way left to finde out the truth of things inevident to sense , ( as by epicurus his own confession all these atoms are , which are now the component particles of bodyes ; much more those which by their fortuitous concourse gave being to the world ) and that is , if something evident to sense doth apparently prove it , which is his way of proving a vacuity in nature from motion ; but though that be easily answered by principles different from those of epicurus , and more rational ; yet that very way of probation fails him in his present hypothesis . for what is there evident to sense which proves a fortuitous concourse of atoms for the production of things ? nay if we grant him that the composition of bodyes is nothing else but the contexture of these insensible particles , yet this is far from being an evidence to sense , that these particles without any wise and directing providence should make up such bodyes as we see in the world . and here when we speak of the evidence of sense , we may well ask as the stoick in tully doth , whether ever epicurus found a poeme made by the casual throwing of letters together ; and if a concourse of atoms did produce the world , cur porticum , cur templum , cur domum , cur urbem non potest ? why did it never produce a cloyster , a temple , a house , a city , which are far easier things then the world ? i know epicurus will soon reply , that things are otherwise in the world now then when it was first produced ; i grant it , and from thence prove , that because no such thing ever happens in the world now , as a meerly casual concourse of atoms to produce any thing , epicurus could have no evidence from sense at all to finde out the truth of his hypothesis by . and as little relief can he finde from his second criterium , viz. anticipation ; for by his own acknowledgement , all anticipation depends on the senses , and men have it only one of these four wayes . . by incursion , as the species of a man is preserved by the sight of him . . by proportion , as we can inlarge or contract that species of a man either into a gyant or pygmy . . by similitude , as we may fancy the image of a city by resemblance to one which we have seen . . by composition , whereby we may joyn different images together , as of a horse and man to make a centaure . now though it be very questionable how some of these wayes belong to a criterium of truth , yet none of them reach our case ; for there can be no incursion of insensible particles as such upon our senses ; we may indeed by proportion imagine the parvitude of them ; but what is this to the proving the truth of the hypothesis ? similitude can do no good , unless epicurus had ever seen a world made so ; the only relief must be from composition , and that will prove the origine of the world by atoms to be as true , as that there are centaures in the world , which we verily believe . these are the only criteria by which epicurus would judge of the truth of natural things by ( for the third , passion relates wholly to things moral and not physical ) and now let any one judge , whether the hypothesis of the origine of the universe by atoms can ever be proved true , either by the judgement of sense , or by anticipation . the way they had to prove this hypothesis was insufficient ; and that was by proving that the bodyes of the world are compounded of such insensible particles ; now , granting the thing , i deny the consequence ; for what though the composition of bodyes be from the contexture of atoms , doth it therefore follow ; that these particles did casually produce these bodyes ? nay doth it at all follow , that because bodyes upon their resolution do fall into insensible particles of different size , figure and motion , therefore these particles must be praeexistent to all bodyes in the world ? for it is plain , that there is now an universal lump of matter out of which these insensible particles arise , and whether they return on the dissolution of bodyes ; and all these various corpuscles may be of the same uniform substance only with the alteration of size , shape and motion ; but what then ? doth this prove , that because particular bodyes do now emerge out of the various configuration and motion of insensible paerticles of that matter which exists in the world , that therefore this whole matter was produced by the casual occursions of these atoms ? it will ask more time and pains then is usually taken by the philosophers either ancient or modern , to prove that those things whatsoever they are , whether elements or particles out of which bodyes are supposed to be compounded , do exist separately from such compounded bodyes , and antecedently to them . we finde no aristotelian elements pure in the world , nor any particles of matter destitute of such a size , figure and motion as doth make some body or other . from whence then can we infer either the existence of aristotles materia prima , without quiddity , quantity or quality , or the epicurean atoms without such a contexture as make up some bodyes in the world ? our profound naturalist dr. harvey , after his most accurate search into the natures and generation of things , delivers this as his experience and judgement concerning the commonly reputed elements or principles of bodyes . for speaking of the different opinions of empedocles and hippocrates , and democritus , and epicurus , concerning the composition of bodyes , he adds , ego vero neque in animalium productione , nec omnino in ulla corporum similarium generatione , ( sive ea partium animalium , sive plantarum , lapidum , mineralium , &c. fuerit ) vel congregationem ejusmodi , vel miscibilia diversa in generation is opere unienda praeexistere , observare unquam potui . and after explaining the way which he conceived most rational and consonant to experience in the generation of things , he concludes his discourse with these words ; idemque in omni generatione furi crediderim ; adeo ut corpora similaria mista , elementa sua tempore priora non habeant , sed illa potius element is suis prius existant ( nempe empedoclis atque aristotel is igne , aqua , aëre , terra , vel chymicorum sale , sulphure , & mercurio , aut democriti atomis ) utpote natura quoque ipsis perfectiora . sunt , inquam , mista & composita , etiam tempore priora element is quibuslibet sic dictis , in quae illa corrumpuntur & desinunt ; dissolvuntur scilicet in ista ratione potius quam re●psa & actu . elementa itaque quae dicuntur , non sunt priora ist is rebus , quae generantur aut oriuntur ; sed posteriora potius , & reliquiae mag is quam principia . n●que aristoteles ipsemet aut alius quispiam unquam demonstravit , elementa in rerum natura separati● existere , au● principia esse corporum similarium . if then none of these things which bodyes are resolved into , and are supposed to be compounded of , either have been or can be proved to exist separate from and antecedent to those bodyes which they compound , what then becomes of all our company of atoms which are supposed by their concourse in an infinite space to be the origine of the world ? i know not where to finde them , unless dancing with the schoolmens chimaera's in a vacuum , or in a space as empty as the infinite one , viz. some epicureans brains . neither therein will they be much unlike their great master epicurus , if we believe the character which the stoick in tully gives of him , who saith he was homo sine arte , sine liter is , insultans in omnes , sine acumine ullo , sine auctoritate , sine lepore . but allowing the stoick some of that passion , ( which he disclaimed so much ) in these words ; yet we may rather believe what tully himself elsewhere speaks of epicurus his sentiments , that they were none of them handsome or becoming a man. at ille quid sentit ? saith he of epicurus ; and soon replyes , sentit autem nihil unquam elegans , nihil decorum ; and in another place speaking of his morals , he sayes , nihil generosum sapit atque magnificum , there was nothing noble and generous in him . which censure of epicurus , all the pains that p. gassendus hath taken in the vindication of the life and opinions of epicurus , hath not been able to wipe off . for although we should yeild what that learned man so much contends for , that all the calumnyes which were cast on epicurus arise from the antipathy between zeno and the following stoicks , and the school of epicurus ; yet all this will not make epicurus to have been comparable with some other philosophers for parts and judgement , whose principles have somewhat more generous and venerable in them , then the morals of epicurus had , taking them in their more refined sense . but it is not the morality of epiourus which we now enquire after ; out business is to see how well he acquits himself in rendring an account of the origine of the universe without a deity . and so we come to consider the hypothesis its self , whether it be rational or no , or consistent with the catholick laws of nature which appear in the world . two things i shall here enquire into , which are the main principles of epicurus , viz. the motion of these atoms in the infinite space , and the manner of the concretion of bodyes by the concourse of these atoms . . i begin with their motion ; which epicurus attributes to his atoms without any hesitation , and yet never undertakes to give an account of the origine of that motion ; which argues his whole hypothesis to be extreamly precarious . the thing then , ( which he must assume as his main principle , without which all his other do nothing ) is , that motion doth inseparably belong to the least atom or insensible particle ; for without this there cannot be imagined any concourse of atoms at all , much less any such contexture of bodyes out of them . but for one to say that atoms move , because it is their nature to move , and give no other account of it , is so precarious , that it will never give the least satisfaction to an inquisitive mind . and it will be the least of all pardonable in the exploders of substantial forms and occult qualities , when the origine of the whole world is resolved into an ●ccult quality which gives motion to atoms . and herein the atomists outdo the most credulous peripateticks , seeing they lay the prime foundation of the world and of their own philosophy together in a thing they can give no rational account of at all , which is , the motion of atoms in an infinite vacuity . if it be replyed , which is all epicurus hath to say , that the motion of atoms depends upon their gravity ; the question returns upon him with the same violence , how comes this gravity to belong to these atoms in such an empty space , where there can be no impulsion from other bodyes , no attraction from any magnetick particles which are supposed to be the causes of the descent of heavy bodyes ? nay , epicurus himself takes away any center of that motion of atoms ; and yet attributes a necessary descent to his atoms by vertue of their gravity ; and if a philosopher may beg such things as these are , so repugnant to the phaenomena of nature , without assigning any other reason for them , but that it is their nature , let us never venture philosophizing more , but sit down in that contented piece of ignorance which attributes the causes of every thing into specifick forms and occult qualityes . for this is so shameful a piece of beggery , that p. gassendus doth more then once disclaim it , and in his discourse of motion doth prove an impossibility of motion in an infinite empty space . might not epicurus then have saved his credit better by sitting down with the opinions of his fore-fathers , then thus to go a begging for such hypotheses , which none , who are not resolved to be ignorant , will be ready to grant him ? but yet this is not all , but according to this fundamental principle of epicurus , viz. that there is a principle of motion in every insensible particle of matter , he plainly overthrows another principle of his , which is the solidity and different magnitude of these atoms . these particles are supposed so solid , that dionysius in eusebius tells us the account given why they are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because of their indissoluble firmness ; and the different sizes of these atoms is so necessary a principle , that from thence they undertake to resolve many phaenomena of the universe : let us now see how consistent these things are with the inseparable property of motion belonging to atoms : for if there be particles of such different sizes , then it is plain that there are some particles which may not only be conceived to be bigger then others , but are really so ; and so there must be more parts of matter imagined in this bigger particle then in another less ; and if there be more parts , these parts may be conceived separate from each other , that this particle may be equal to the other ; now then , i demand , if motion doth inseparably belong to the least particle of matter , how comes one to be bigger then the other ? for herein we see that every particle is not in distinct motion ; for there cannot but be more imaginable particles in an atome of a bigger size then in a less ; and if so , there must be some union of those imaginable particles in that bigger atome ; and how could such an union be without rest , and what rest could there be if motion doth inseparably belong to every particle o● matter ? and so it must be in all those atoms which are supposed to have angles and hooks , in order to their better catching hold of each other for the composition of bodyes ▪ how come these hooks and angles to be annexed to this atom ? for an atom may be without them ; whence comes this union , if such a principle of motion , be in each particle ? if it be answered , that motion did belong to all these particles , but by degrees the l●sser particles hitting together made up these angled and hooked particles ; i soon reply , that the difficulty returns more strongly ; for if these angled and hooked particles be supposed necessary to the contexture and union of bodyes , how came those least imaginable particles ever to unite without such hooks and angles ? and so the question will return in infinitum . if then the solidity and indivisibility of these angled atoms , doth depend on the union and rest of those lesser imaginable particles joyned together , then it is evident that motion is no inseparable property of all these particles , but some are capable of union , in order to the making of such hooks and angles , which are necessary for the contexture of bodyes ; and where there is union and solidity , there is rest , which is at least accompanied with it , if it be not one of the great causes of it . and without which the atomists of all other philosophers will be least able to give an account of firmness in bodyes , when they make bodyes to consist of an aggregation of particles , by which it will be very hard finding a sufficient account of the difference between fluid and firm bodyes , unless it be from the quicker motion and agitation of the particles of fluid bodyes , and the rest of the small and contiguous parts that make up the firm body , according to that catholick law of nature , whereby things continue in the state they are in till some stronger force puts them out of it . the only thing which the epicurean atomists have left to give any account of the solidity of particles of such different sizes , is , the want of vacuity ; for say they , the ground of divisibility of bodyes is the interspersion of a disseminated vacuum ; now where there is no vacuity , though the particles be of different siz● , yet they may be solid and indivisible . but this is taken off by the instance produced against other persons by that ingenious & honourable person m. boyle in his physiological essayes , which is to this purpose ; suppose two of these presumed indivisible particles , both smooth and of a cubical figure should happen to lye upon one another , and a third should ch●nce to be fitly placed upon the upper of the two ; what should hinder but that this aggregate may by the violent knock of some other corpuscles be broken in the midst of the whole concretion , and consequently in the middlemost body ? for suppose them as solid as may be , yet since corpuscles as hard as they , can be made very violently to knock against them , why may not those grate or break the middlemost corpuscles , or any of the others ? and if there be a possibility of a breaking off these cubical particles in the middle , then meer want of vacuity is no sufficient account of their being indivisible . by this we see how far the atomists are from giving any rational account of the origine of the motion of the atoms themselves without a deity . . supposing this motion to be granted them , yet they cannot give any satisfactory account of the manner of concretion of bodyes by the casual occursions of these a●●ms moving in an infinite empty space . which appears from those gross and extravagant suppositions of epicurus , in order to the making these atoms of his so hit together that they make up any bodyes by their contexture . . he supposeth as it were two regions , a superior and inferior in an infinite empty space , which hath no center at all in it , nor any body , from which to measure those respects of above and below ; as appears by his epistle to herodotus , wherein he saith , these terms of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or upwards and downwards , must be conceived without any bounds or limits at all . so that though we conceive something superior , we must imagine nothing supreme , and so on the contrary . whereby it is evident as gass●ndus confesseth , that epicurus thought the surface of the earth to be a plain , and this plain to be continued up in a level superficies to the heavens , and so to all that immense space of the universe . so that all those heavy bodyes which should fall downwards in any parts of the widest distance on the earth , as in europe , asia , and africa , would never meet ( if they continued their motion ) in the center of the earth , but would continue their motion still in a parallel line ; and so he imagined that which is said to be above as to us , was really the upper part of the world , and so the descent of his atoms must necessarily be downwards towards the earth , according to the weight of them . and was not this a worthy mathematical supposition , for one who would undertake to give an account of the origine of the universe without a deity ? this motion of descent by reason of the gravity of atoms would not serve his turn ; for if the atoms moved downwards thus in a parallel line , how was it possible for them ever to meet for the contexture of bodyes ? now for this purpose he invented a motion of declination ; for finding the motion ad lineam , or ad perpendiculum as some call it , could not possibly produce those varieties of bodyes which are in the universe , he supposed therefore the descent not to be in a perpendicular right line , but to decline a little , that so seve●al particles in their descent m●ght make some occursions one upon another . and this epicurus added to democritus ; but therein as tully observes , was very unhappy , that where he adds to democritus , ea quae corrig●re vult , mihi quidem depravare videatur ; that he mar'd what democritus had said , by mending of it . the reason of which motion of declination , is thus given by lucretius , quod nisi declinare solerent , omnia deorsum imbris uti guttae caderent per inane profundum ; nec foret offensus natus , neque plaga creata principiis , it a nil unquam natura creasset . it was obvious to object , that according to the principles of epicurus , there could have been no concourse at all of atoms in an infinite space , on the two grounds he went on , which were the natural descent of atoms , and the aequi-velocity of the motion of all atoms of what size so ever , which he likewise asserted ( although one would think if gravity were the cause of motion , then the more gravity , the swister the motion would be ) from hence , i say it were not easie to conceive how the atoms should embrace each other in a parallel line , if they fell down as lucretius expresseth it , like drops of rain ; and therefore they saw a necessity to make their motion decline a little , that so they might justle and hit one upon another . but this oblique motion of the atoms , though it be the only refuge left to salve the origine of things by a concourse of atoms , is yet as precarious and without reason as any other supposition of theirs whatsoever . tully chargeth this motion of declination with two great faults , futility , and in●fficacy , quae cum res tota ficta sit pueriliter , tum ne efficit quidem quod vult . it is a childish fancy and to no purpose : for first , it is asserted without any reason at all given for it , which is unworthy a philosopher ; neither is it to any purpose ; for if all atoms , saith he , decline in their motion , then none of them will stick together ; if some decline , and others do not , th●s is as precarious as any thing can be imagined , to assign a diversity of motion in indivisible particles , which yet have all the same velocity of motion ; and as tully saith , hoc erit quasi provincias atomis dare , quae recte , quae oblique f●rantur : as though epicurus were the general at this rendesvous of atoms , who stands ready to appoint every one his task and motion . this plutarch tells us was the great charge against epicurus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because he introduced such a motion of declination out of nothing upon no pretence of reason . and turnebus tells us , that the ground why they desired so small a declination , was because they were conscious to themselves , that it was founded upon no ground of reason ; et epicurei sibi conscii culpae , timide eam ponebant , & minimam sibi post ulabant . to which purpose turnebus cites those verses of lucretius , quare etiam at que etiam paulum inclinare necesse est corpora , nec plusquam minimum , ne fingere motus obliquos videamur , & id res vera refutet . namque hoc in promptu manifest unique esse videmus pondera quantum in se est , non posse obliqua meare esupero cum praecipitant , quod cernere possis . sed nihil omnino recta regione viai declinare , quis est qui possit cernere sese ? but this argument of lucretius will hold if at all , further then this little declination ( for it is no more they desire then as little as may be imagined , quo nihil possit fieri minus , tully expresseth it ) but if they may decline a little , why not a great deal more ? nay it is impossible to conceive , but a little oblique motion at first will in an infinite space grow to be very oblique ; for there is nothing to hinder the motion which way it bends ; now if there be never so little motion of declination , the atom will be inclined that way ; and what then should hinder , but that the obliquity in a motion through a great space should at last come to be very great ; there being no center at all to guide the motion towards , and the gravity not hindering this little declination ? therefore tully asks that question , cur declinet uno minimo , non declinet duobus aut tribus ? why only it declines one minime , and not two or three ; for , saith he , it is no impulsion from any other atom which makes it decline that one minime ; neither is there any impediment in the space to hinder it from declining more ; so that , as he well saith , optare hoc quidem est , non disputare , this is to beg hypotheses and not to prove them , which is the thing we have proved epicurus to do . which was the first thing promised , viz. that this hypothesis of epicurus was very precarious , and is built on no foundation of reason . . it is unsatisfactory and insufficient , as well as precarious ; for should we grant his two main principles , atoms and his infinite empty space ; yet we deny that ever his atoms with all their occursions would ever produce those things which are in the universe . to run through the noted phaenomena of the universe , and to shew how insufficient an account the epicureans are able to give of them , from a fortuitous concourse of atoms , is a task too large to be here undertaken . there are only three things which i shall rather suggest , then insist upon , to see what miserable shifts the epicureans are driven to for the salving of them , and shall then leave it with the reader to judge , what unmeasurable confidence it is in any to reject the creation of the world for the sake of the epicurean hypothesis ; and whether it be not the height of credulity , as well as infidelity , to believe the world ever to have been made by a fortuitous concourse of atoms ? . the great varieiy of appearances in nature , which are attributed to particles of the same nature , only with the alteration of size , shape , and motion . that some things in the world , should have no other reason given of them , may not only be tolerable , but rational , as in the objects and operations on the organs of sense , those affections which are mistaken for real qualities , &c. but that all those effects which are seen in nature should have no other cause but the different configuration and motion of atoms , is the height of folly as well as impi●ty , to imagine that the particles of matter , as they are in men , should be capable of sensation , memory , intell●ction , volition , &c. meerly because of a diff●rent shape , size and motion from what they have in a piece of wood , is a riddle that requires a new configuration of atoms in us to make us understand . may it not be hoped , that at least one time or other by this casual concourse of atoms , the particles may light to be of such a nature in stones , as to make them flic ; in plants , to make them all sensitive ; and in beasts to make them reason and discourse ? what may hinder such a configuration or motion of particles , if all these eff●cts are to be imputed to no higher principle ? we see in other bodies what different appearances are caused by a sudden alteration of the particles of the matter of which they are compounded ; why may it not fall out so in the things mentioned ? neither can this be unreasonable to demand . . because the motion of these particles of matter is casual still according to them ; and who knows what chance may do ? for the seminal principles themselves are , i suppose , according to them of the same uniform matter with the rest of the world , and so are liable to different motion and configuration . . because all particles of matter are supposed to be in continual motion , becaus● of that disseminated vacuity , which is presumed to be in the world , and because a coacervate vacuity is not only asserted as possible , but as probably existent : i assume only then ( that which is insisted on as probable ) viz. that that space which lies between our atmosphere and the stars is empty of any other thing , but only the rayes of the stars which pass through it ; i then supposing it a vacuity , whether would not the particles of those bodies which lie contiguous to that space presently dislodge from the bodies wherein they are , and begin a new rendezvous of atoms there ? for all atoms are supposed to be in perpetual motion ; and the cause assigned , why in solid bodies they do not flie away , is , because of the repercussion of other atoms , that when they once begin to stir , they receive such knocks as make them quiet in their places . now this cannot hold in the bodies contiguous to this space ; for both those bodies are more fluid , and so there is no such knocking of particles to keep them at rest ; but which is more , those which are contiguous have nothing at all to hinder them from motion , and so those particles will necessarily remove into that empty space where there is no impediment of their motion , and so the next atoms to those must remove , because that space wherein the other were is made empty by their removal ; and so the next , and so on , till not only the air , but the whole mass of the earth w●ll on supposition of such a vacuity be dissolved into its first particles , which will all mutiny in the several bodies wherein they are , and never rest till they come to that empty space , where they may again rendezvous together . so dangerous is the news of liberty , or of an empty space to these democratical particles of the universe . neither can i see how a disseminated vacuity can salve the difficulty ; for those particles of the most solid bodies , being in continual motion , and the ground of their union being reperc●ssion , it thence follows that towards that part where the disseminated vacuum is , the particles meeting with no such strokes may sairly take their leaves of the bodies they are in , and so one succeed in the place of another , till the configuration of the whole be altered , and consequently different appearances and effects may be caused in the same bodies , though it results from seminal principles . so that according to the atomical principles , no rational account can be given of those effects which are seen in nature . this dionysius in eusebius urgeth against the atomists , that from the same principles without evident reason given for it , they make of the same uniform matter some things conspicuous to sense , others not , some short-lived , others extreamly long-lived . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; what ground can there be assigned of so vast a difference between things if they be all of the same nature , and differ only in size and shape ? saith that excellent person , who there with a great deal of eloquence lays open ●he folly of the atomical philosophy , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . it is a rare democraty of atoms , saith he , where the friendly atoms meet and embr●ce each other , and from thenceforward live in the closest society together . . not only the variety , but the exact order and beauty of the world is a thing unaccountable by the atomical hypothesis . were the whole world still a hesiods chaos ( from the consideration of which diogenes laertius tells us epicurus began to philosophize ) we might probably believe an agitation of particles ( supposing matter created ) might settle it in such a confused manner ; but that there should be nothing else but a blind impetus of atoms to produce those vast and most regular motions of the heavenly bodies , to order the passage of the sun for so great conveniency of nature , and for the alternate succession of the seasons of the year , which should cut such channels for the ocean , and keep that vast body of the water ( whose surface is higher then the earth ) from overflowing it , which should furnish the earth with such seminal and prolifick principles , as to provide food and nourishment for those animals which live upon it , and furnish out every thing necessary for the comfort and delight of mans life ; to believe , i say , that all th●se things came only from a blind and fortuitous concourse of atoms , is the most prodigious piece of credulity and folly , that humane nature is subject to . but this part which concerns the order and beauty of the parts of the universe , and the argument thence , that it could be no blind fortuitous principle , but an infinitely wise god , hath been so fully and judiciously handled by a learned person already , that i shall rather choose to refer the reader to his discourse then insist any more upon it . . the production of mankind is a thing which the atomists are most shamefully puzzled with , as well as the formation of the internal parts of mans body , of which i have already spoken in the precedent chapter . it would pitty one to see what lamentable shifts the atomists are put to , to find out a way for the production of mankind , viz. that our teeming mother the earth , at last cast forth some kind of bags like wombs upon the surface of the earth , and these by degrees breaking , at last came out children , which were nourished by a kind of juyce of the earth like milk , by which they were brought up till they came to be men . oh what will not atheists believe rather then a deity and providence ! but least we should seem to wrong the atomists , hear what censorinus saith of epicurus ; is enim credidit limo calefactos uteros nescio quos , radicihus terrae cohaerentes , primum increvisse , & infantibus ex seeditis ingenitum lactis humorem , natura ministrante praebuisse ; quos it a educatos & adultos , genus humanum propagasse . but because lucretius may be thought to speak more impartially in the case , how rarely doth he describe it ? crescebant uteri terrae radicibus apti , quos ubi tempore maturo patefecerit aetas infantum , fugiens humorem , aurasque petissens , convertebat ibi natura foramina terrae , et succum venis cogebat fundere apertis consimilem lactis ; sicut nunc foemina quaeque quum peperit dulci repletur lacte , quodomnis impetus in mammas convert itur ille alimenti : terracibum pueris , vestem vapor , herbacubile praebebat , multa & molli lanugine abundans . had lucretius been only a poet , this might have passed for a handsomly described fable ; but to deliver it for a piece of philosophy makes it the greater mythologie ; that mans body was formed out of the earth we believe , because we have reason so to do ; but that the earth should cast forth such folliculi as he expresseth it , and that men should be brought up in such a way as he describes , deserves a place among the most incredible of poetick fables . but if poets must be credited , how much more like a man did he speak , who told us , natus homo est ; sive hunc divino semine fecit ille opifex rerum , mundi melioris crigo , sive recens tellus , seductaque nuper ab alto aethere , cognati retinebat semina coeli ; quam satus iapeto mistam fluvialibus undis , finxit in effigiem moderantum cuncta deorum . thus have we considered the epicurean hypothesis , both as to the principles on which it stands , and the suitableness of it to the phaenomena of the universe ; and i suppose now there cannot be the least shadow of reason found from the atomical philosophy to make us at all question that account of the origine of the universe , which ascribes it not to the fortuitous concourse of atoms , but to the infinite wisdom of a deity . i conclude then this discourse of the epicurean hypothesis with the words of automedon in the greek epigram . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . learn to be wise ; let epicurus chase to find his atoms , and his empty space . i come now to the last hypothesis mentioned , which undertakes to give an account of the origine of the universe from the meer mechanical laws of motion and matter . which is the hypothesis of the late famous french philosopher mr. des cartes . for although there be as much reason as charity to believe that he never intended his hypothesis as a foundation of atheism , having made it so much his business to assert the existence of a deity and immateriality of the soul ; yet because it is apt to be abused to that end by persons atheistically disposed , because of his ascribing so much to the power of matter ; we shall therefore so far consider it as it undertakes to give an account of the origine of the universe without a deity . his hypothesis therefore is briefly this . he takes it for granted , that all the matter of the world was at first of one uniform nature , divisible into innumerable parts , and divided into many , which were all in motion , from hence he supposeth . . that all this matter of which the universe is composed , was at first divided into equal particles of an indifferent size , and that they had all such a motion as is now found in the wo●ld . . that all these particles were not at first sphaerical , because many such little globes joyned together will not fill up a continued space , but that of what ever figure they were at first , they would by continued motion become sphaerical , because they would have various circular motions ; for seeing that at first they were moved with so great force that one particle would be disjoyned from the other , the same force continuing would serve to cut off all angles which are supposed in them , by their frequent occursions against each other ; and so when the angles were cut off , they would become sphaerical . . he supposeth that no space is left empty , but when those round particles being joyned , leave some intervals between them , there are some more subtile particles of matter , which are ready to fill up those void spaces , which arise from those angles which were cut ●ff from the other particles to make them sphaerical ; which fragments of particles are so little , and acquire thereby such a celerity of motion , that by the force of that , they will be d●vided into i●numerable little fragments , and so will fill up all those spaces which other particles could not enter in at . . that those particles which sill up the intervals between the sphaerical ones , have not all of them the same celerity of motion , because some of them are more undivided then others are , which filled up the space between three globular particles when their angles were cut off , and therefore those particles must necessarily have very angular figures , which are unfit for motion , and thence it comes to pass that such particles easily stick together , and transfer the greatest part of their motion upon those other particles which are less , and therefore have a swifter motion ; and because these particles are to pass through such triangular spaces which lye in the midst of three globular particles touching each other , therfore he supposeth them as to their breadth and depth to be of a triangular figure , but because these particles are somewhat long ; and the gl●bular particles through which they pass with so swift motion have their rotation about the poles of the heavens , thence he supposes that those triangular particles come to be wreathed . now from these things being thus supposed , des cartes hath ingeniously and consonantly to his principles undertaken to give an account of the most noted phaenomena of the world , and those three sorts of particles mentioned he makes to be his three elements ; the first is that subtile matter which was supposed to arise from the cuttings off the angles of the greater particles ; and of this he tells us the sun and fixed stars consill , as those particles of that subtile matter being in continual ●o●ion have made those several vortices or aethereal whirlpools . the second element confists of the sphaerical particles themselves , which make up the heavens ; out of the third element which are those wreathed particles , he gives an account of the formation of the earth , and planets , and comets ; and from all of them by the help of those common affections of matter , size , figure , motion , &c. he undertakes to give an account of the phaenomena of the world . how far his principles do conduce to the giving mens minds satisfaction , as to the particular phaenomena of nature , is not here our business to enquire , but only how far these principles can give an account of the origine of the universe without a deity ? and that it cannot give a satisfactory account how the world was framed without a deity , appears by the two grand suppositions on which all his elements depend , both which cannot be from any other principle but god. those are , . the existence of matter in the world which we have already proved cannot be independent on god , and necessarily existent , and therefore supposing that matter existent and put into motion , would grind its self into those several particles by him supposed , yet this cannot give any account of the origine of the universe without a deity . . the motion of the particles of matter suppose a deity ; for matter is no self-moving principle , as hath been fully demonstrated in several places by that judicious philosopher dr. h. more , who plainly manifests that if motion did necessarily belong to matter , it were impossible there should be sun , or stars , or earth , or man in the world ; for the matter being uniform , it must have equal motion in all its particles , if motion doth belong to it . for motion being supposed to be natural and ●ss●ntial to matter , must be alike every where in it , and therefore every particle must be supposed in motion to its utmost capacity , and so every particle is alike and moved alike : and therefore there being no prevalency at all in any one particle above another in bigness or motion , it is manifest that this universal matter , to whom motion is so essential and natural , will be ineffectual for the producing of any variety of appearances in nature ; for nothing could be caused by this thin and subtile matter , but what would be wholly imperceptible to any of our senses : and what a strange kind of visible world would this be ? from hence then it appears that there must be an infinitely powerful and wise god , who must both put matter into motion , and regulate the motion of it , in order to the producing all those varieties which appear in the world . and this necessity of the motion of matter by a power given it from god is freely acknowledged by mr. des cartes himself in these words ; considero materiam sibi libere permissam , & nullum aliunde impulsum suscipientem , ut plane quiescentem ; illa autem impellitur à deo , tantundem motus five translationis in ea conservante quantum abinitio posuit . so that this great improver and discoverer of the mechanical power of matter , doth freely confess the necessity not only of gods giving motion in order to the origine of the universe , but of his conserving motion in it for the upholding it : so that we need not fear from this hypothesis the excluding of a deity from being the prime efficient cause of the world . all the question then is concerning the particular manner , which was used by god as the ●fficient cause in giving being to the world . as to which i shall only in general suggest what maimonides sayes of it . omnia simul creata ●rant , & postea successive ab invicem separata ; although i am somewhat inclinable to that of gassendus , majus ●st mundus opus , quam ut ass●qui mens humana illius molitionem possit : to which i think may be well applyed that speech of solomon ; then i beheld all the work of god , that a man cannot finde out the work that is done under the sun ; because though a man labour to seck it out , yea further , though a wise man think to know it , yet shall he not be able to sinde it . chap. iii. of the origine of evil. of the being of providence . epieurus his arguments against it refuted . the nec●ssity of the belief of providence in order to religion . providence proved from a consideration of the nature of god and the things of the world . of the spirit of nature . the great objections against providence propounded . the first concerns the origine of evil . god cannot be the author of sin if the scriptures be true . the account which the scriptures give of the fall of man , doth not charge god with mans fault . gods power to govern man by laws , though he gives no particular reason of every positive precept . the reason of gods creating man with freedom of will , largely shewed from simplicius ; and the true account of the origine of evil . gods permitting the fall makes him not the author of it . the account which the scriptures give of the origine of evil , compared with that of heathen philosophers . the antiquity of the opinion of ascribing the origine of evil to an evil principle . of the judgment of the per●●ans , aegyptians and others about it . of manichaism . the opinion of the ancient greek philosophers ; of pythagoras , plato , the stoicks ; the origine of evil not from the necessity of matter . the remainders of the history of the fall among the heathens of the malignity of daemon● . providence vindicated as to the sufferings of the good , and impunity of bad men . an account of both from natural light , manifested by senec● , plutarch , and others . it being now manifest not only that there is a god , but that the world had its being from him ; it thence follows by an easie and rational deduction , that there is a particular band of divine providence , which upholds the world in its being , and wisely disposeth all events in it . for it is a most irrational and absurd opinion to assert a deity and deny providence : and in nothing did epicurus more discover the weakness and puerility of his judgment then in this . indeed , if epicurus had no other design in asserting a deity , then ( as many ancient philosophers imagined ) to avoid the imputation of direct atheism ; and yet to take away all foundations of religion , he must needs be said to serve his hypothesis well , though he did assert the being of an excellent nature which he called god ; while yet he made him sit as it were with his ●lbows folded up in the heavens , and taking no ●●gniz●nce of humane actions . for he well knew , that if the belief of divine providence were once rooted out of mens minds , the thoughts of an excellent being above the he●vens , would have no more aw or power upon the hearts and lives of men , then the telling men that there are i●wels of inestimable value in the indies , makes them more ready to pay taxes to their princes . for that philosopher could not be ignorant , that it is not worth but power , nor speculation but interest that rules the world . the poor tenant more regards his petty landlord , then the greatest prince in the world that hath nothing to do with him ; and he thinks he hath great reason for it ; for he neither fears punishment nor hopes for reward from him ; whereas his landlord may dispossess him of all he hath upon displeasure , and may advantage him the most if he gains his favour : supposing then that there were such an excellent being in the world which was compleatly happy in himself , and thought it an impairing of his happiness to trouble himself with an inspection of the world ; religion might then be indeed derived à relegendo , but not à religando ; there might be some pleasure in contemplating his nature , but there could be no obligation to obedience . so that epicurus was the first sounder of a kind of philosophical antinomianism , placing all religion in a veneration of the deity purely for its own ex●●llency without any such mercenary eye ( as those who serve god for their own ends , as they say , are apt to have ) to reward and punishment . and i much doubt that good woman whom the story goes of , who in an enthusiastick posture ran up and down the strects with emblems in her hands , fire in the one as she said to burn up heaven , and water in the other to quench hell , that men might serve god purely for himself , would if she had compassed her design , soon brought proselites enough to epicurus , and by burning heaven would have burnt up the cords of religion , and in quenching hell would have extinguished the aw and fear of a deity in the world . indeed the incomparable excellency and perfection which is in the divine nature , to spirits advanced to a noble and generous height in religion , makes them exceedingly value their choice , while they disregard what ever rivals with god for it ; but were it not for those magnetical hooks of obedience and eternal interest , there are few would be drawn to a due consideration of , much less a delight in so amiable and excell●●nt a nature . and it is impossible to conceive , why god in the revelation of his will should ever so much as mention a future punishment , or promise an eternal reward , were not the consideration of these things the sinews of religion . which they whose design was to undermine the very foundations on which all religion was built , understood far better , then those weak pretended advancers of religion , who while in such a way they pretend to advance it , do only blow it up . for if men ought not to have an eye and respect to their own future condition , nor serve god on the account of his power to make our souls miserable or happy , much less ought men to serve god with any regard to his providence , since the matters which providence is employed about in this world are of infinitely less moment , then those which concern our future state . and if we are to have no eye on divine providence in the exercise of religion , we shall scarce be able to understand for what end god should take so much care of mankind , and manifest so much of his goodness to them , were it not to quicken them in their search after him , and excite them to the more chearful obedience to him . and when once we question to what end god troubles himself with the world , we are come next door to epicurus , and may in few steps more delight in the flowers of his garden . for this was his strongest plea against providence , that it was beneath the majesty and excellency of the divine nature to stoop so low and trouble himself so far , as to regard what was done on earth . this being one of his ratae sententiae or undoubted maximes , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the blessed and immortal being , neither hath any imployment himself , nor troubles himself with others . which as maximus tyrius well observes , is rather a description of a sardanapalus then a deity ; nay of a worse then a sardanapalus ; for he in the midst of all his softness and effeminacy would yet entertain some counsels for the safety and good of his empire ; but epicurus his d●ity is of so tender a nature , that the least thought of business would quite spoile his happiness . this opinion of epicurus made the more raisedspirited moralists so far contemn the unworthy apprehensions which he entertained of the divine nature , that they degraded him from the very title of a philosopher in it , and ranked him beneath the most fabulous poets , who had writ such unworthy things of their gods , as is evident by the censures which tully , plutarch and others pass upon him for this very opinion . and they tell him that some of their own men were of a more noble and excellent spirit then epicurus his deity , who abhorred softness and idleness , and made it their greatest delight to do good to their countrys . but epicurus must needs make his god of his own humour ( the usual flattery which men bear to themselves , to think that most excellent which they delight in most ) as xenophanes was wont to say of his horse , if he were to describe a god , it would be with a curled main , a broad chest , &c. and in every thing like himself . had e icurus himself so little of an athenian in him , as not to make it some part of his delight to understand the affairs of the world ? or at least did he take no pleasure in the walks of his famous garden , nor to order his trees , and set his flowers , and contrive every thing for his own delight ? woul● epicurus then count this a part of his happiness ? and is it inconsistent with the happiness of the deity to take notice of the world and order all things in it for his own glory ? must so excellent a nature as gods was , by his own acknowledgment , be presently tired with business , when the more excellent any nature is , the more active and vigorous it is , the more able to comprehend and dspatch matters of moment with the least disturbance to its self ? is it pleasure to a nurse to fill the child with her milk ? doth the sun rejoyce to help the world with his constant light ? and doth a fountain murmur till it be delivered of its streams which may refresh the ground ? and is it no delight to the divine nature to behold the effects of his goodness upon the world ? we see here then the foundation on which epicurus went , viz. that his god must be like himself , or there must be none ; and truly he might more suitably to his principles question his existence , then supposing his existence deny his providence on such miserable accounts as these are , which yet are the chief which either epicurus or lucretius could bring against it , from the consideration of the divine nature . the which to any one who considers it , doth necessarily infer a peculiar eye and hand of providence in the world . for can we imagine that a being of infinite knowledge should be ignorant of what is done in the world ? and of infinite power , should stand by and leave things to chance and fertune ? which were at first , contrived and brought into being by the contrivance of his wisdom , and exercise of his power . and where the foundation of existence lies wholly and solely in the power of an infinite being producing , the ground of continuance of that existence must lye in the same power conserving . when men indeed effect any thing , the work may continue , whatever become of him that did it ; but the reason of that is , because what man doth , is out of matter already existent , and his work is only setting materials together ; but now what god effects he absolutely gives a being to , and therefore its duration depends on his conservation . what is once in its being , i grant , will continue till some greater force then its self put it out of being ; but withall i add , that gods withdrawing his conservation is so great a force , as must needs put that being which had its existence from his power , out of the condition it was in by it . the light of the sun continues in the air , and as long as the sun communicates it , nothing can extinguish the light , but what will put out the sun ; but could we suppose the sun to withdraw his beams , what becomes of the light then ? this is the case of all beings , which come from an infinite power ; their subsistence depends on a continual emanation of the same power which gave them being ; and when once this is withdrawn , all those beings which were produced by this power must needs relapse into nothing . besides , what dependence is there upon each other in the moments of the duration of any created being ? the mode of existence in a creature is but contingent and possible , and nothing is implyed in the notion of an existent creature , beyond meer possibility of existence ; what is it then which gives actual existence to it ? that cannot be its self , for it would be necessarily existent ; if another then give existence , this existence must wholly depend upon him who gave it ; for nothing can continue existence to its self , but what may give it to its self , ( for it gives it for the moment it continues it ) and what gives existence to its self , must necessarily exist , which is repugnant to the very notion of a created being : so that either we must deny a possibility of non-existence , or annihilation in a creature , which follows upon necessity of existence , or else we must assert that the duration or continuance of a creature in its being doth immediatly depend on divine providence and conservation , which is with as much reason as frequency said to be a continued creation . but yet further ; was an infinite wisdom , and power necessary to put things into that order they are in ? and is not the same necessary for the governing of them ? i cannot see any reason to think that the power of matter when set in motion , should either bring things into that exquisite order and dependence which the parts of the world have upon each other ; much less that by the meer force of that first motion all things should continue in the state they are in . perpetual motion is yet one of the desiderata of the world ; the most exquisite mechanism cannot put an engine beyond the necessity of being looked after ; can we then think this dull , unactive matter , meerly by the force of its first motion should be able still to produce the effects which are seen in the world , and to keep it from tumbling , at least by degrees , into its pristine chaos ? it was an infinite power , i grant , which gave that first mo●ion ; but that it gave power to continue that motion till the constagration of the world , remains yet to be proved . some therefore finding that in the present state of the world , matter will not serve for all the noted and common phoenomena of the world , have called in the help of a spirit of nature , which may serve instead of a man-midwife to matter , to help her in her productions of things . or , as though god had a plurality of worlds to look after , they have taken care to substitute him a vicar in this , which is this spirit of nature . but we had rather believe god himself to be perpetually resident in the world , and that the power which gives life , and being and motion to every thing in the world , is nothing else but his own providence ; especially since we have learnt from himself , that it is in him we live and move and have our being . thus then we see a necessity of asserting divine providence , whether we consider the divine nature , or the phaenomena of the world ; but yet the case is not so clear but there are two grand objections behind , which have been the continual exercise of the wits of inquisitive men almost in all ages of the world . the one concerns the first origine of evil ; the other concerns the dispensations of providence , whence it comes to pass that good men fare so hard in the world , when the bad triumph and flourish ; if these two can be cleared with any satisfaction to reason , it will be the highest vindication of divine providence , and a great evidence of the divinity of the scriptures , which gives us such clear light and direction in these profound speculations , which the dim reason of man was so much to seek in . i begin with the origine of evil ; for , if there be a hand of providence which orders all things in the world , how comes evil then into it , without gods being the author of it ? which is a speculation of as great depth as necessity , it highly concerning us to entertain the highest apprehensions of gods holiness , and how far he is from being the author of sin ; and it is likewise a matter of some difficulty so to explain the origine of evil as to make it appear that god is not the author of it . i easily then assent to what origen saith on this subject , when celsus upon some mistaken places of scripture had charged the scripture with laying the origine of evil upon god ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . if any thing which calls for our enquiry be of difficult investigation , that which concerns the origine of evils is such a thing ; and as simplicius well begins his discourse on this subject ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the dispute concerning the nature and origine of evil , not being well stated , is the cause of great impiety towards god , and perverts the principles of good life , an● involves them in innumerable perplexities who are not able to give a rational account of it . so much then is it our great concernment to fix on sure grounds in the resolution of this important question , in which i intend not to lanch out into the depth and intricacyes of it , as it relates to any internal purposes of gods will , ( which is beyond our present scope ) but i shall only take that account of it which the scripture plainly gives in relating the fall of the first man. for the clearing of which i shall proceed in this method : . that if the scriptures be true , god cannot be the author of sin . . that the account which the scripture gives of the origine of evil , doth not charge it upon god. . that no account given by philosophers of the origine of evil , is so clear and rational as this is . . that the most material circumstances of this account are attested by the heathens themselves . . that if the scriptures be true , god cannot be the author of sin . for if the scriptures be true , we are bound without hesitation to yeild our assent to them in their plain and direct affirmations , and there can be no ground of suspending assent , as to any thing which pretends to be a divine truth , but the want of certain evidence , whether it be of divine revelation or no. no doubt it would be one of the most effectual wayes to put an end to the numerous controversies of the christian world ( especially to those bold disputes concerning the method and order of gods decrees ) if the plain and undoubted assertions of scripture were made the rule and standard , whereby we ought to judge of such things as are more obscure and ambiguous . and could men but rest contented with those things which concern their eternal happiness , and the means in order to it ( which on that account are written with all imaginable perspicuity in scripture ) and the moment of all other controversies be judged by their reference to these , there would be fewer controversies and more christians in the world . now there are two grand principles which concern mens eternal condition , of which we have the greatest certainty from scripture , and on which we may with safety rely , without perplexing our minds about those more nice and subtile speculations ( which it may be are uncapable of full and particular resolution ) and those are , that the ruine and destruction of man is wholly from himself ; and that his salvation is from god alone . if then mans ruine and misery be from himself , which the scripture doth so much inculcate on all occasions ; then without controversie that which is the cause of all the misery of humane nature , is wholly from himself too , which is , sin . so that if the main scope and design of the scripture be true , god cannot be the author of that , by which ( without the intervention of the mercy of god ) mans misery unavoidably falls upon him . for with what authority and majesty doth god in the scripture forbid all manner of sin ? with what earnestness and importunity doth he woo the sinner to forsake his sin ? with what loathing and detestation doth he mention sin ? with what justice and severity doth he punish sin ? with what wrath and indignation doth he threaten contumacious sinners ? and is it possible , ( after all this and much more , recorded in the scriptures , to express the holiness of gods nature , his hatred of sin , and his appointing a day of judgement for the solemn punishment of sinners , ) to imagine that the scriptures do in the least ascribe the origine of evil to god , or make him the author of sin ? shall not the judge of all the world do right ? will a god of infinite iustice , purity , and holiness , punish the sinner for that which himself was the cause of ? far be such unworthy thoughts from our apprehensions of a deity , much more of that god whom we believe to have declared his mind so much to the contrary , that we cannot believe that and the scriptures to be true together . taking it then for granted in the general , that god cannot be the author of sin , we come to enquire , whether the account which the scripture gives of the origine of evil , doth any way charge it upon god ? there are only two wayes , which according to the history of the fall of man recorded in scripture , whereby men may have any ground to question whether god were the cause of mans fall ? either first , by the giving him that positive law , which was the occasion of his fall ; or secondly , by leaving him to the liberty of his own will. first , the giving of that positive law cannot be the least ground of laying mans fault on god ; because , . it was most suitable to the nature of a rational creature to be governed by laws , or declarations of the will of his maker ; for considering man as a free agent , there can be no way imagined so consonant to the nature of man as this was , because thereby he might declare his obedience to god to be the matter of his free choice . for where there is a capacity of reward , and punishment , and acting in the consideration of them , there must be a declaration of the will of the law-giver , according to which man may expect either his reward or punishment . if it were suitable to gods nature to promise life to man upon obedience , it was not unsuitable to it to expect obedience to every declaration of his will ; considering the absolute soveraignty and dominion which god had over man as being his creature , and the indispensable obligation which was in the nature of man to obey whatever his m●ker did command him . so that god had full and absolute right to require from man , what he did as to the law which he gave him to obey ; and in the general we cannot conceive , how there should be a testimony of mans obedience towards h●s creator , without some declaration of his creators will. secondly , god had full power and authority , not only to govern man by laws , but to determine mans general obligation to obedience to that particular positive precept by the breach of which man fell . if gods power over man was universal and unlimited , what reason can there be to imagine it should not extend to such a positive law ? was it , because the matter of this law seemed too low for god to command his creature ? but whatever the matter of the law was , obedience to god was the great end of it , which man had testified as much in that instance of it as in any other whatsoever ; and in the violation of it were implyed the highest aggravations of disobedience ; for gods power and authority was as much contemned , his goodness slighted , his truth and faithfulness questioned , his name dishonoured , his maj●sty affronted in the breach of that as of any other law whatsoever it had been . if the law were easie to be observed , the greater was the sin of disobedience ; if the weight of the matter was not so great in its self , yet gods authority added the greatest weight to it ; and the ground of obedience is not to be fetched from the nature of the thing required , but from the authority of the legislator . or was it then because god concealed from man his counsel in giving of that positive precept ? hath not then a legislator power to require any thing , but what he satisfies every one of his reason in commanding it ? if so , what becomes of obedience and subjection ? it will be impossible to make any probative precepts on this account ; and the legislator must be charged with the disobedience of his subjects , where he doth not give a particular account of every thing which he requires ; which as it concerns humane legislators ( who have not that absolute power and authority which god hath ) is contrary to all laws of policy and the general sense of the world . this plutarch gives a good account of , when he discourseth ●o rationally of the sobriety which men ought to use in their inquiries into the grounds and reasons of gods actions ; for , saith he , physitians will give prescriptions without giving the patient a particular reason of every circumstance in them : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . neither have humane laws alwayes apparent reason for them , nay some of them are to appearance ridiculous ; for which he instanceth in that law of the lacedaemonian ephori 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to which no other reason was annexed but this , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : they commanded every magistrate at the entrance of his office to ●have himself , and gave this reason for it , that they might learn to obey laws themselves . he further instanceth , in the roman custom of manumission , their laws about testaments , solons law against neutrality in seditions , and concludes thence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . any one would easily find many absurdities in laws , who doth not consider the intention of the legislator , or the ground of what he requires . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith he , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . what wonder is it if we are so puzled to give an account of the actions of men , that we should be to seek as to those of the deity ? this cannot be then any ground on the account of meer reason , to lay the charge of mans disobedience upon god , because he required from him the observance of that positive command of not eating of the forbidden fruit . the only thing then left is , whether god be not lyable to this charge as he left man to the liberty of his will : and that may be grounded on two things , either that god did not create man in such a condition , in which it had been impossible for him to have sinned , or that knowing his temptation he did not give him power to resist it . if neither of these will lay any imputation of the origine of evil upon god , then god will appear to be wholly free from it . first , concerning mans being created a free agent ; if the determination of the schools be good that possibility of ●inning is implyed in the very notion of a creature , and consequently that impeccability is repugnant to the nature of a created being ; then we see a necessary reason , why man was created in a state of liberty ; but endeavouring to shew that the grounds of our religion are not repugnant to natural reason , i shall rather make use of the testimony of such who professed to be followers of nothing else but reason and philosophy . among whom i shall make choice of simplicius both ●or the reason he produce●h , and because he is farthest from any suspicion of partiality , by reason of his known opposition to the mosaick history of the creation . he then in his commentaries on epictetus professedly disputes this very subject of the origine of evil , and after having rejected that sond opinion of two principles , one of good , and the other of evil , undertakes to give an account whence evil came into the world , which because it tends so much to the illustrating our present subject i shall give an account of . god , saith he , who is the ●ountain and principle of all good , not only produced things which were in themselves good , nor only those things which were of a middle nature , but the extreams too , which were such things which were apt to be perverted from that which is according to n●ture , to that which we call evil . and that after those bodyes which were ( as he supposeth ) incorruptible , others were produced which are subject to mutation and corruption ; and so after those souls which were immutably fixed in good , others were produced which were lyable to be perverted from it ; that so the riches of gods goodness might be displayed in making to exist all beings which were capable of it ; and that the universe might be perfect in having all sorts of beings in it . now , he supposeth , that all these beings which are above this sublunary world are such as are immutably good , and that the lowest sort of beings which are lyable to be perverted to evil , are such which are here below . therefore , saith he , the soul being of a more noble and immutable nature , while it is by its self , doth not partake of evil ; but it being of a nature apt to be joyned with these terrestrial bodyes ( by the provid●nce of the author of the universe who produced such souls , that so both extreams might be joyned by the bonds of vital union ) thereby it becomes sensible of those evils and pains which the body is subject to ; but th●se things are not properly evils but rather good , considering our terrestrial bodyes as parts of the universe which is upheld by the changes and vicissitudes which are in this lower world ; w●●ch he largely discourses on to shew that those particular alterations which are in bodyes , do conduce rather to the perfection and beauty of the universe , then are any real evils in it . but now , saith he , for the origine of those things which are properly evils , viz. moral evils , which are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 t●e lapses and errors of the humane soul , we are to consider , that there are souls of a more excellent nature then ours are , which are immutally good ; ●nd the souls of brutes are of a lower kinde then ours are , and yet are middle between the rational and vegetative , having something in them parallel both to the appetites and evils which are in men , which will therefore be understood by an account of the other . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the soul of man is nexus utriusque mundi , in the middle between those more excellent beings which perpetually remain above , with which it partakes in the sublimity of its nature and understanding , and those inferiour terrestrical beings with which it communicates through the vital union which it hath with the body , and by reason of that freedom and indifferency which it hath , it sometimes is assimilated to the one , sometimes to the other of these extreams . so that while it approacheth to the nature of the superior beings , it keeps it self free from evil , but because of its freedom it may sometimes sink down into these lower things ; and so he calls , the cause of all evil in the soul 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , its voluntary descent into this lower world , and immersing its self in the faeculency of terrestrial matter . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for though the soul be of a kind of amphibious nature , yet it is not forced either upwards or downwards , but acts either way according to its internal liberty . but , saith he , while the rational soul keeps that power which it hath in its hands over the body , and makes use of it only as an instrument for its own good , so long it keeps pure and free from any stain of evil ; but when it once forgets the similitude it hath with the mor● excellent being , and throws away the scepter of its power , and drowns it self in the body and brutish affections ( preferring the pleasure of sense above that of reason ) when it so far degenerates below the principles of reason , that in stead of commanding the brutish faculties it becomes a slave to them , then it conceives and brings forth evil ; but this it doth not through any coaction or necessity , but through the abuse of that power and liberty which it hath ; for the choice is a proper action of the soul its self ; which he proves from hence , because god and the laws , and all good men , do not measure the good and evil of actions so much by the event , as by the will and intention of the person ; and that punishment and reward have chiefly a respect to these . and therefore men are pardoned for what they do out of constraint and force , and the fault is ascribed , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not to him that did it , but to him that forced him to the doing of it . and so from hence he concludes , that because of the freedom of the will of man , nothing else can be said to be the author of evil properly , but the soul of man ; and concludes that discourse with this excellent speech , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . having thus found out the true origine of evil , let us cry out with a loud voice , that god is not the author of sin , because the soul freely doth that which is evil , and not god ; for if thè soul were forced to do what it doth , one might justly lay the blame on god , who permits such a force to be offered it , neither could it be properly evil which the soul was constrained to ; but since it acted freely , and out of choice , the soul must alone be accounted the author and cause of evil . thus we see that god cannot with any shadow of reason be accounted the author of evil , because he gave the soul of man a principle of internal freedom , when the very freedom of acting which the soul had , put it into a capacity of standing as well as falling . and certainly , he can never be said to be the cause of the breaking of a person , who gave him a stock to set up with , and supposed him able to manage it when he gave it him ; indeed had not man had this freedom of will , he could not have fallen ; but then neither had he been a rational agent , which supposing no corruption , doth speak freedom of action . so that while we enquire after the origine of evil we have no other cause to assign it to but mans abuse of that free power of acting which he had ; but if we will be so curious as to enquire further , why god did create man with such a freedom of will , and not rather fix his soul immutably on good ; if the order of beings be no satisfactory reason for it , we can give no other then that why he made man , or the world at all , which was the good pleasure of his will. but secondly , supposing gods giving man this freedom of will , doth not entitle him to be the author of evil ; doth not his leaving man to this liberty of his in the temptation , make him the cause of sin ? i answer no , and that on these accounts . . because man stood then upon such terms , that he could not fall but by his own free and voluntary act ; he had a power to stand , in that there was no principle of corruption at all in his faculties , but he had a pure and undefiled soul which could not be polluted without its own consent : now it had been repugnant to the terms on which man stood ( which were the tryal of his obedience to his creator ) had he been irresistibly determined any way . simplicius puts this question after the former discourse , whether god may not be called the author of sin , because he permits the soul to use her liberty ? but , saith he , he that says god should not have permitted this use of its freedom to the soul , must say one of these two things , ●ither that the soul being of such a nature as is indifferent to good or evil , it should have been wholly kept from the choosing evil , or else that it should have been made of such a nature that it should not have had a power of choosing evil . the first is irrational and absurd ; for what freedom and liberty had that been where there was no choice , and what choice could there have been where the mind was necessitated onely to one part . for the second we are to consider , saith he , that no evil is in its self desirable , or to be chosen ; but withall , if this power of determining its self ●ither way must be taken away , it must be either as something not good , or as some great evil ; and who●ver saith so , doth not consider , how many things in the world there are , which are accounted good and desirable things , yet are no ways comparable with this freedom of will. for it excells all sublunary beings ; and there is none would rather desire to be a brute or plant then man ; if god then shewed his goodness in giving to inferior beings such perfecti●●s which are far below this , is it any ways incongruous to gods nature and goodness to give man the freedom of his actions , and a self determining power , th●ugh he permi●ted him the free use of it . besides , as that author reason● , had god to prevent mans sin taken away the liberty of his will , he had likewise destroyed the foundation of all vertue , and the very nature of man ; for vertue would not have been such , had there been no possibility of acting contrary ; and mans nature would have been divine , because impeccable . therefore , saith ●e , though we attribute this self-determining power to god as the author of it , which was so necessary in the order of the universe , we have no reason to attribute the origine of that evil to god which comes by the abuse of that liberty . for , as he further adds , god doth not at all cause that aversion from good , which is in the soul when it sins , but only gave such a power to the soul , whereby it might turn its self to evil , out of which god might afterwards produce so much good , which could not otherwise have been without it . so consonantly to the scripture doth that philosopher speak on this subject . . god cannot be said to be the author of sin , though he did not prevent the fall of man , because he did not withdraw before his fall any grace or assistance , which was necessary for his standing . had there been indeed a necessity of supernatural grace to be communicated to man for every moment to continue him in his innocency , and had god before mans fall withdrawn such assistance from him , without which it were impossible for him to ●ave stood , it would be very difficult freeing god from being the cause of the fall of man. but we are not put to such difficulties for acquitting god from being the author of sin ; for there appears no necessity at all for asserting any distinction of sufficient and efficacious grace in man before his fall ; that the one should belong only to a radical power of standing , the other to every act of good which adam did ; for if god made man upright , he certainly gave him such a power as might be brought into act without the necessity of any supervenient act of grace , to elicite that habitual power into particular actions . if the other were sufficient , it was sufficient for its end ; and how could it be sufficient for its end , if notwithstanding that , there were no possibility of standing , unless efficacious help were superadded to it ? god would not certainly require any thing from the creature in his integrity , but what he had a power to obey ; and if there were necessary further grace to bring the power into act , then the substracting of this grace must be by way of punishment to man , which it is hard to conceive for what it should be , before man had sinned , or e●se god must substract this grace on purpose that man might ●all , which would necessarily follow on this supposition , in which case man would be necessitated to fall , veluti cum subductis columnis dom us necessario corruit , as one expresseth it , as a house must needs fall when the pillars on which it stood are taken away from it . but now if god withdrew not any effectual grace from man , whereby he must necessarily fall , then though god permit man to use his liberty , yet he cannot be said to be any ways the author of evil , because man had still a posse si vellet , a power of standing , if he had made right use of his liberty , and god never took from man his adjutorium quo potuit stare , & sine quo non potuit , as divines call it , man enjoying still his power , though by the abuse of his liberty he fell into sin ; so that granting god●o ●o leave man to the use of his liberty , yet we see god cannot in the l●ast be charged with being the author of sin , or of the origine of evil , by the history of the fall of man in scripture : which was the thing to be cleared . we come now in the third place to compare that account given of the origine of evil in scripture , with that which was embraced by heathen philosophers , in point of reason and evidence . there was no one inquiry whatsoever in which those who had nothing but natural light to guide them , were more to seek for satisfaction in , then this concerning the origine of evil . they saw by continual experience how great a torrent of both sorts of evils , of sin and punishment , did over flow the world ; but they were like the egyptians , who had sufficient evidence of the overflowing their banks by the river nile , but could not find out the spring or the head of it . the reason was , as corruption increased in the world , so the means of instruction and knowledge decayed ; and so as the phoenomena grew greater , the reason of them was less understood ; the knowledge of the history of the first ages of the world , through which they could alone come to the full understanding of the true cause of evil , insensibly decaying in the several nations : insomuch that those who were not at all acquainted with that history of the world which was preserved in sacred records among the iews , had nothing but their own uncertain conjectures to go by , and some kind of obscure traditions which were preserved among them , which while they sought to rectifie by their interpretations , they made them more obscure and false then they found them . they were certain of nothing but that mankind was in a low and degenerate condition , and subject to continual miseries and calamities ; they who cryed up the most the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or the self-determining power of the soul , could not certainly but strangely wonder , that a principle indifferent to be carried either way , should be so almost fatally inclined to the worst of them . it was very strange that since reason ought to have the command of passions by their own acknowledgement , the brutish part of the soul should so master and enslave the rational , and the beast should still cast the rider in man , the sensitive appetite should throw off the power of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of that faculty of the soul which was designed for the government of all the rest . the philosophers could not be ignorant what slaves they were themselves to this terrestrial hyle , how easily their most mettalsom souls were mired in the dirt , how deep they were sunk into corporeal pleasures , that it was past the power of their reason to help them out . nay when the soul begins to be fledged again , after 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or moulting at her entrance into the body , which plato speaks of , and strives to raise her self above his lower world , she then feels the weight of such plummets hanging at her feet , that they bring her down again to her former fluttering up and down in her cage of earth . so hierocles complains , that when reason begins to carry the soul to the perception of the most noble objects , the soul with a generous flight would soar above this world , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , were it not horn down to that which is evil by the force of passions , which hang like leads upon the souls feet . what a strange unaccountable thing must this needs be to those who beheld the constancy of the effect , but were to seek for the cause of it ? it could not but be clear to them that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they were wont to extoll so high , was ( in the state man was now in ) but a more noble name for slavery ; when themselves could not but confess the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or inclination in the soul , was so strong to the evil ; and could that be an even balance , where there was so much down-weight in one of the scales ? unless they made , as some of them did , the voluntary inclinations of the soul to evil , an evidence of her liberty in this most degenerate condition , as though it were any argument that the prisoner was the freer , because he delighted himself in the noise of his shackles . neither was this disorder alone at home in the soul , where there was still a xantippe scolding with socrates , passion striving with reason ; but when they looked abroad in the world , they could not but observe some strange irregularities in the converse among men . what debaucheries , contentions , rapines , fightings , and destroying each other , and that with the greatest cruelty , and that frequently among country-men , friends , nay relations , and kindreds ! and could this hostility between those of the same nature , and under the most sacred bonds of union , be the result of nature , when even beasts of prey are not such to those of their own kind ? besides all this when they summed up the life of man together , and took an account of the weaknesses and follies of childhood , the heats and extravagancies of youth , the passions , disquietments , and disappointments of men in their strength and height of business , the inquietude , aches , and infirmities of old age , besides the miseries which through every one of these all men are subject to , and few escape , into how small a sum will the solid pleasure and contentment of the life of man be reduced ? nay if we take those things in the world which men please themselves the most in enjoyment of , and consider but with what care they are got , with what fear they are kept , and with what certainty they must be lost , and how much the possession of any thing fails of the expectation of it , and how near men are upon the top of tenariff to fall into the depth of the sea , how often they are precipitated from the height of prosperity into the depth of adversity , we shall finde yet much less that by the greatest chymistrie can be extracted of real satisfaction out of these things . whence then should it come that mens souls should so delight to seed on these husks , and to embrace these clouds and shadows instead of that real good which is the true object of the souls desire ? they could easily see there was no pure , unmixed good in the world , but there was a contemperation of both together according to that of euripides : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . there is a kind of continual mixture of good and evil in the world , which socrates observed upon the rubbing of his thigh where the fetters made it itch , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . what a strange thing is that which men are wont to call pleasure , how near of kin is it to that which seems so contrary to it , pain ? now the observing the strange and sudden vicissitudes of these things , and what near neighbours pain and pleasure were to each other , ( so that there is frequently a passage out of one into the other ) did yet more entangle them to give a clear account of the origine of both these . those who believed there was a god , who produced the world and ordered all things in it , did easily attribute whatever was good in the world to the fountain of all goodness ; but that any evil should come from him they thought it repugnant to the very notion of a deity ; which they were so far right in , as it concerned the evil of sin , which we have already shewed god could not be the author of ; but therein they shewed their ignorance of the true cause of evil , that they did no● look upon the miseries of life as effects of gods iustice upon the world for the evil of sin . and therefore that they might set the origine of evil far enough off from god , they made two different principles of things , the one of good , and the other of evil ; this plutarch tells us was the most ancient and universal account which he could meet with of the origine of good and evil . to which purpose we have this ample testimony of his in his learned discourse , de iside & osiride , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . which words i have the more largely cited because they give us the most full account of the antiquity , universality and reason of that opinion which asserts two different principles of good and evil . it is a tradition ( saith he ) of great antiquity derived down from the ancient masters of d●vine knowledge , and formers of commonwealths , to the poets and philosophers , whose first author cannot be found , and yet hath met with firm and unshaken belief , not only in ordinary discourses and reports , but was spread into the mysteries and sacrifices both of greeks and others , that the universe did not depend on chance , and was destitute of a mind and reason to govern it ; neither was there one only reason which sate at the stern , or held the reins , whereby he did order and govern the world ; but since there is so much confusion and mixture of good and evil in the world , that nature doth not produce any pure untainted good ; there is not any one who like a drawer takes the liquor out of two several vessels , and mixeth them together , and after distributes them ; but there are two principles and powers contrary to each other , whereof one draoes us to the right hand , and directs us straight forward , the other pulls us back , and turns us the other way ; since we see the life of man so mixed as it is ; and not only that , but the world too , at least so much as is sublunary and terrestrial , which is subject to many varieties , irregularities , and changes . for if nothing he without a cause , and good cannot be the cause of evil , it necessarily follows , that as there is a peculiar nature and principle , which is the cause of good , so there must be another , which is the cause of evil . but least we should think it was only a sect of a kind of heathen manichees which held this opinion ; he tells us to prevent that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it was the opinion of the most , and wisest , of the heathen . now these two principles some ( saith he ) call two opposite gods , whereof the one is the cause of good , and the other of evil ; him they call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : by this one would imagine that this very ancient tradition was nothing else , but the true account of the origine of evil , a little disguised . for the scripture making the devil the first author of evil himself , and the first sollicitor and tempter of man to it ; who when god directed him straight forward , pull'd man back , and put him quite out of his way , by which means all the miseries of the world came into it . for while man kept close to his maker , his integrity and obedience were to him what the vasa umbilicalia are to the child in the womb ; by them he received what ever tended to his subsistence and comfort ; but sin cut those vessels asunder , and proved the midwife of misery , bringing man forth into a world of sorrow and sufferings : now , i say , the scripture taking such especial notice of one , as the chief of devils , through whose means evil came into the world , this gave occasion to the heathens when length of time had made the original tradition more obscure , to make these two , god and the daemon , as two anti-gods , and so to be the causes , the one of all good , and the other of all evil . which at last came to that ( which was the devils great design in thus corrupting the tradition ) that both these anti-gods should have solemn worship by sacrifices , the one by way of impetration for bestowing of good , the other by way of deprecation for averting of evil . such plutarch there tells us were the oromasdes and arimanius of zoroastres which were worshipped by the persians , the one for doing good , and the other for avoiding evil ; the one they resembled to light ( or fire ) the other to darkness and ignorance ; what animals were good and usefull they ascribed to oromasdes , and all venemous and noxious ones to arimanius , whom plutarch elsewhere calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the evil daemon of the persians . the same diogenes laertius relates of the magi , the philosophers of persia , that they made two distinct principles , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a good and bad daemon ; for which he quotes dinon , aristotle , hermippus , eudoxus , and others . the same plutarch makes to be the opinion of the ancient greeks , who attribute the good to iupiter olympius , the bad to hades ; the chald●ans , saith he , make the planets their gods , of which two they suppose the cause of good ; two more of only a malignant influence , and other three to be indifferent to either . the same he affirms of the egyptians , that whatever was evil , and irregular , they ascribed to typho ; what was good , comely and usefull , they attributed to isis , and osiris ; to isis as the passive , osiris as the active principle . thus we see how large a spread this opinion of the origine of evil had in the gentile world ; neither did it expire with heathenism ; but manes retained so much of the religion of his country being a persian , that he made a strange medley of the persian and christian doctrine together . for that was his famous opinion of which st. austin tells us ; is●e duo principia inter se diversa at que adversa , cade●que aeterna , & eterna hoc est , semper fuisse composuit ; du●sque naturas at que substantias , boni scilicet & mali , sequens alios antiquos haereticos , opinatus est . st. austin thinks that manes had h●s opinion concerning two principles from the ancient hereticks , by whom i suppose he means the marcicnists and valentinians ; but it seems more probable that manes had his doctrine immediately from h●s countrymen , though it be generally thought that scythianus and buddas were his masters i● it . but from whomsoever it came , the opinion was me●rly heathen , and not more contrary to scripture then it is to reason ; the former i medd●● not with , that opinion being now extinct in the christian world ; i only briefly consider the unreasonableness of it , to shew what a far better account of the origine of evil the scriptures give us , then was discovered by the heathen philosophers . for on both sides that opinion is repugnant to the notion of a deity , so that while they would make two such gods , they make none at all . for how can the principle of good be god , if he hath not infinite power , as well as goodness ? and how can he have infinite power , if he hath not the management of things in the world ? and how can he have the management of things , if they be lyable to evil , which the other god which is the principle of evil may lay upon it ; from which according to this supposition , the principle of good cannot rescue it ? so that they who hold this opinion cannot , as sim●licius tells us , give god 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the half of that infinite power which belongs to him ; for neither can he keep the good creatures which he makes from the power of the evil daemon , and therefore , if he loves them , must be in continual fears of the power of the contrary principle , neither can he free them from the evil which the other lays upon them ; for then gods power would be far greater then the evil daemons , and so he could be no anti-god . and on the other side the notion or idea of an infinitely evil being , is in its self an inconsistent idea ; for it is an infinite non-entity , if we suppose his very being to lie in being evil , which is only a privation of goodness ; and besides if he be infinitely evil , he must be infinitely contrary to the good principle , and how can he be infinitely contrary which enjoys several of the same perfections which the other hath , which are infinity of essence and necessity of existence ? now if this principle of evil be absolutely contrary to the other , it must be contrary in all his perfections ; for whatever is a perfection , belongs to that which is good ; and now if it be contrary in every perfection , infinity of essence , and necessity of existence , being two , it must be as contrary as is imaginable to them , by which this evil principle must be infinitely defective in being and existence , and so it will be an infinite non entity which yet exists , which is the height of contradiction . again , if there be such a contrary principle , which is the cause of all evil , then all evil falls out unavoidably , and by the power of this infinitely evil principle , by which means not only all religion , but all vertue and goodness will be taken out of the world , if this evil principle be infinite ; and if not infinite , no anti-god : and not only so , but all difference of good and evil will be taken away ( and then what need making two such contrary principles to give an account of the origine of evil ? ) for when once evil becomes thus necessary , it loseth its nature as a moral evil ; for a moral evil implyes in it a voluntary breach of some known law ; but how can that breach be voluntary , which was caused by an infinite power in the most proper way of efficiency ? and thus if all freedom of will be destroyed ( as it is necessarily by this supposition ) then no government of the world by laws can be supposed , and consequently no reward or punishment , which suppose liberty of action , and by this means all religion , laws , and providence are banished out of the world , and so this evil daemon will get all into his own hands , and instead of two contrary principles , there will be but one infinitely evil demon. which that there is not , appears by this , that notwithstanding all the evil in the world there is so much good left in it , of which there would be none , if th●s evil daemon had infinite power . by this we see there cannot be a principle infinitely evil ; for while they go about to make two such contrary principles infinite , they make neither of them so , and so while they make two gods , they take away any at all . so that this opinion of the origine of evil , is manifestly absurd , irrational , and contradictions . but all the heathen philosophers were not so gross as to imagine two such anti-gods with infinitely active power ; but yet those who would not in terms assert it , might be driven to it by the consequence of their opinion concerning the origine of evil , which did suppose a necessity of it in nature , as flowing from that passive principle out of which the world was produced . hence it was that heraclitus as plutarch tells us , attributed the origine of all things to discord and antipathy , and was wont to say , that when homer wished 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . that all contention were banished out of the world , that he did secretly curse the origine of things and wished the ruine of the world . so empedocles called the active principle wh●ch did good harmony and friendship , but the other 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . by which he makes it to be a quarrelsome , pernicious , and bloody principle . the same plutarch tells us of those two renowned philosophers , pythagoras and plato . thence he tells us the pythagoreans called the principle of good 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . unity , finite , quiescent , straight , uneven number , square , right and splendid ; the principle of evil , they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the binary , infinite , moving , crooked , even , long of one side , unequal , left , obscure . the opinion of plato he tells us is very obscure , it being his purpose to conceal it ; but he saith in his old age in his book de legibus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , without any if's or and 's , he asserts the world to be moved by more then one principle , by two at the least , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the one of a good and benigne nature , the other contrary to it both in its nature and operations . numenius in chalcidius thus delivers the opinions of pythagoras and plato de originibus as he speaks ; igitur pythagoras quoque , inquit numenius , fluidam & sine qualitate sylvam esse censet ; nec tamen ut stoici naturae mediae , interque malorum bonorumque viciniam , sed plane noxiam ; deum quippe esse ( ut etiam platoni videtur ) initium & causam bonorum , sylvam malorum : so that according to numenius , both plato and pythagoras attributed the origine of evil to the malignity of matter , and so they make evils to be necessarily consequent upon the being of things . for thus he delivers expresly the opinion of pythagoras ; qui ait , existente providentia , mala quoque necessario substitisse ; propterea quod sylva sit , & eadem sit malitia praedita : platonemque idem numenius laudat , quod duas mundi ●●mas autumet . unam beneficentissimam ; malignam alteram , sc. sylvam . igitur juxta platonem mundo bona sua dei , tanquam patris liberalitate collata sunt ; mala vero , matris sylvae vitio cohaeserunt . but plutarch will by no means admit , that plato attributes the origine of evil meerly to matter ; but he makes the principle of evil to be something distinct from matter , which he calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a confused , infinite , self-moving , stirring principle ; which ( saith he ) he else where calls necessity , and in his de legibus plainly , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a disorderly and malignant soul , which cannot be understood of meer matter , when he makes his hyle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , without form or figure , and destitute of all qualities and power of operation : and it is impossible ( saith he ) that that which is of its self such an inert principle as matter is , should by plato be supposed to be the cause and principle of evil , which he elsewhere calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , necessity which often resisted god and cast off his reins . so that according to plutarch plato acquits both god and hyle from being the origine of evil , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and therefore attributes it to that malignant spirit which moves the matter , and is the cause of all the disorderly motions in the world . but what this spirit should be , neither he nor any one else could ever understand ; what darkness and ignorance then was there among the wisest of philosophers concerning the origine of evil , when they were so consused and obscure in the account which they gave of it , that their greatest admirers could not understand them ! but though plato seemed so ambiguous in his judgment of the origine of evil , whether he should attribute it to the hyle , or some malignant spirit in it , the stoicks were more dogmatical , and plainly imputed the cause of evil to the perversity of matter . so chalcidius tells us , that the stoicks made matter not to be evil in its self as pythagoras , but that it was indifferent to either ; perrogati igitur unde mala ? perversitatem seminarium malorum causati sunt : they made the perversity of matter the origine of evil ; but as he well observes , nec expediunt adhu● unde●●psa perversitas cum juxta ipsos duo sint initia rerum , d●●●● & sylva . deus summum & praecellens bonum ; sylva , ut censent , nec bonum nec malum . they give no rational account whence this perversity of matter should arise , when according to the stoicks , there are but two principles of things , god and matter , whereof the one is perfectly good , the other neither good nor evil . but this perversity they tell us is something necessarily consequent upon the generation of things . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , these are affections , ( viz. the disorders in the world ) which follow the generation of things , as rust comes upon brass , and filth upon the body , as the counterfeit trismegistus speaks ; so maximus tyrius saith that evils in the world are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not any works of art , but the affections of matter . non potest artifex mutare materiam , saith seneca , when he is giving an account why god suffers evils in the world : and elsewhere gives th●s account why evils came into he world , non quia cessat ars , sed quia id in quo exercetur inobsequens arti est . so that the origine of evil by this account of it lyes wholly upon the perversity of matter , which it seems was uncapable of being put into better order by that god who produced the world out of that matter which the stoicks supposed to be eternal . and the truth is , the avoiding the attributing the cause of evil to god , seems to have been the great reason , why they rather chose to make it matter necessary and coexistent with god , and this was the only plausible pretence which hermogenes had for following the platonists and stoicks in this opinion , that he might set god far enough off from being the author of sin ; but i cannot s●e what advantage comes at all by this hypothesis , but it is chargeable with as many difficulties as any other . for , . it either destroyes gods omnipotency , or else makes him the approver of evil , so that if he be not auctor , he must be assentator mali , as tertullian speaks against hermogenes , because he suffered evil to be in matter ; for , as he argues , aut enim potuit emendare sed noluit . aut voluit quidem , verum non potuit infirmus deus ; si potuit & noluit , malus & ipse quia mal● savit ; & fic jam habetur ejus licet non instituerit , quia tamen si noluisset illud ess● , non esset ; ipse jam fecit esse , quod noluit non esse , quo quid ●st ●urpius ? si voluit esse quod ipse noluit fecisse , adversum semetipsum egit , cum & voluit esse quod noluit fecisse , & noluit fecisse quod voluit esse . so that little advantage is gained for the clearing the true origine of evil by this opinion ; for either god could have taken away evil out of matter but would not , or else would but could not ; this latter destroyes gods omnipotency , the former his good-ness ; for by that means evil is in the world by his consent and approbation ; for if god would not remove it when he might , the being of it will come from him ; when if he would have hindred it , it would not have been , and so god by not rooting out of evil , will be found an assertor of it ; male si per voluntatem ; turpiter si per necessitatem , aut famulus erit mali deus , aut amicus ; if gods will were the cause why sin was , it reflects on his goodness ; if gods power could not hinder it , it destroyes his omnipotency . so that by this opinion god must either be a slave or a friend to evil . . this principle overturns the foundations of religion , and all transactions between god and mens souls in order to their welfare , because it makes evil to be necessarily existent in the world ; which appears from hence in that evil doth result from the being of matter , and so it must necessarily be , as matter is supposed to be ; for whatever results from the being of a thing , must be coexistent with it ; and so what flows from what doth necessarily exist , must have the same mode of existence which the being its self hath ; as is evident in all the attributes of god , which have the same immutability with his nature : now then if evil did exist from eternity together with matter , it must necessarily exist as matter doth , and so evil will be invincible and unavoidable in the world ; which if once granted , renders religion useless , makes gods commands unrighteous , and destroyes the foundation of gods proceedings in the day of judgment . . this opinion makes god not to be the author of good , while it denyes him to be the author of evil . for either there was nothing else but evil in this eternal matter , or there was a mixture of good and evil ; if nothing else but evil which did necessarily exist , it were as impossible for god to produce good out of it , as to annihilate the necessarily existent matter . if th●re were a mixture of good and evil , they were both there either necessarily or contingently ; how could either of them be contingently in that which is supposed to be necessarily existent , and no free agent ? if they be both there necessarily , . it is hard conce●ving how two such contrary things as good and evil , should both necessarily be in the same uniform matter . . then god is no more the author of good then of evil in the world ; for he is said not to be the auth●r of evil because it comes from matter ; and so it appears good doth too , and so god according to this opinion , is no more the author of good then he is of evil . but if it be said , that good is not in matter , but god produced that out of nothing : then i reply , . if god did produce good out of nothi●g , why did he not produce matter out of nothing too ; i● he were so powerful as to do the one , there could be no de ect of power as to the other . what insufficiency is there in gods nature for producing all things out of nothing , if he can produce any thing out of nothing ? . if god did produce good out of evil , why could he not have removed all evil out of matter ? for good could not be produced , but by the removing of some evil which was before that good , and so god might have removed all evil out of matter . and so by not doing it when he might , this opinion gives not the least satisfaction in point of reason for acquitting god from being the author of sin , nor for clearing the true origine of evil . thus we have now compared the account given of it in scripture , with that given by the heathen philosophers , and find it in every thing more clear , rational and satisfactory then theirs is . which doubtless is the reason , why the more modern philosophers such as hierocles , porphyrie , simplicius and others , though otherwise great opposers of christianity , did yet in this side with the scriptures and attribute the original of evil , not to matter but to the will of man. and whoever is seriously conversant with the writings of those philosophers , who were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the sacred succ●ssion , out of the school of ammonius at alexandria , such as plotinus , porphyrius , iamblichus and hierocles , will find them wri●● in a higher strain concerning many weighty and importan● 〈◊〉 , as of the degeneracy of mens souls from god , and t●e way of the souls returning to him , then the most sublime of the ancient philosophers had done . which speculations of theirs no doubt arose not so much from the school of plato , and pythagoras , as of that great restorer o● philosophy ammonius of alexandria ; whose s●bolars her●nnius ▪ origen and plotinus were . who living and dying a ●hristian , as eusebius and hierom assure us , whateve● porphyrius suggests to the contrary , did communicate to his s●holars the sublimer mysteries of divine rev●l●tion , toge●her w●●h the speculations of the ancien● philo●ophers : which holstenius conceives he did with an adjuration o● secrecy , which he tells us porphyrius himself acknowledgeth , that those three scholars of ammonius , herennius , origen and pl●tinus were under an obligation to each other not to reveal and discover , though it were after violated by them . it is an easie matter to conceive what an excellent improvement might be made of the ancient platonick philosophy by the advantage of the scriptures , by one who was so well versed in both of them as ammonius is supposed to have been ; and how agreeable and becoming would that philosophy seem which had only its rise from plato , but its height and improvement from those rich and truly divine truths which were inlaid with them ? the want of observing this , viz. whence it was that those excellent discourses in the later platonists had their true original , hath given occasion to several mistakes among learned men : as first the over valuing of the platonick philosophy , as though in many of the discourses and notions of it , it seemed to some ( who were more in love with philosophy then the scriptures ) to outgo what is discovered therein concerning the same things . a most groundless and unworthy censure ! when it is more then probable ( and might be largely manifested , were it here a fit opportunity ) that whatever is truly generous and noble in the sublimist discourses of the platonists , had not only its primitive rise , but its accession and improvement from the scriptures , wherein it is still contained in its native lustre and beauty , without those paintings and impure mixtures which the su●●●mest truths are corrupted with in the platonick writi●● . the reason of which is , though these philosophers grew ●●ddenly rich through the spoyles they had taken out of the scriptures , yet they were loth to be known from whence they had them , and would seem to have had that out of their own gardens which was only transplanted from the sacred writings . therefore we find them not mentioning the scriptures and the christian doctrine without some contempt of its meanness and simplicity ; & what ever improvement they had gained by them , they would have it less taken notice of by professing their opposition to the christians , as is notorious in those great philosophers , porphyrius , iamblichus , hierocles , simplicius and o●hers . it being their design to take so much and no more out of the christian doctrine as they could well suite with their plat●nick notions , by which means they so disguised the faces of the truths they stole , that it were hard for the right owners of them to know them again . which was the grand artifice of their great master plato , who doubtless by means of his abode and acquaintance in aegypt about the time when the iews began to flock thither , had more certain knowledge of many truths of grand importance , concerning the deity , the nature of the soul , the origine of the world , then many other greek philosophers had ; but yet therein lay his great fault , that he wrapt up and disguised his notions in such a fabulous and ambiguous manner , that partly it might be less known from whence he had them , and that they might find better entertainment among the greeks , then they were ever like to do in their plain and native dress . which plato himself seems somewhere to intimate , when he saith , that what the greeks received from the barbarians , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they put it into a better fashion , i. e. they disguise it , alter and change it as they please , and put it into a greek habit , that it might never be suspected to have been a forraigner . thence tertullian speaks with a great deal of truth and freedom of such philosophers who did ingenii sitim de prophetarum fonte irrigare ( as he expresseth it ) that quenched their thirst after knowledge with the waters of iordan ( though they did not like naaman , cure the lepro●ic of the head by washing in them ) for as tertullian saith , the● came only ex negotio curiositatis , more to please the i tch o● their curiosity then to cure it . and wherein they seemed most to agree with the scriptures , their difference was beyond their agreement . siquidem vera quaeque & consonantia prophetis aut aliunde commendant , aut aliorsum subornant , cum maxima injuria veritatis quam efficiunt aut adjuvari falsis aut patrocinari . whatever the philosophers speak agreeable to the scriptures , either they do not own whence they had it , or turn it quite another way , whereby they have done the truth a great deal of injury by mixing it with their corruptions of it , and making that little truth a plea for the rest of their errors . neither was this only among the ancient philosophers , but the primitive christians began to discern the underhand workings of such , who sought to blend philosophy and christianity together ; for tertullian himself takes great notice of such , who did , veritatis dogmata ad philosophicas sententias adulterare , suborn christianity to maintain philosophy ; which makes him cry out , viderint qui stoicum & platonicum , & dialecticum christianismum protulerunt ; by which we see what tampering there was betimes rather to bring christianity down to philosophy , rather then to make philosophy truckle under the truth and simplicity of the scriptures . whether ammonius himself , and some others of the school of alexandria , might be guilty in this kind , is not here a place to enquire , though it be too evident in the writings of some , that they rather seek to accommodate the scriptures to the sentiments of the school of plato , then to reform that by the scriptures ; but i say , however it were with those who were christians , yet those who were not , but only philosophers , made their great advantage by it . for when they found what was reconcileable with the doctrine of plato in the scriptures , done already to their hands , by the endeavours chiefly of ammonius and origen , they greedily embrace those improvements of their philosophy , which would tend so much to the credit of it , and as contemptuously reject what they found irreconcileable with the dictates of their philosophy . now what an unreasonable thing is it , when what ever was noble and excellent in the heathen philosophy was derivative from 〈◊〉 scriptures , as the sacred fount●in of it , that the meeting with such things should in the least redound to the prejudice of the scriptures from whence it was originally derived ? when on the other side it should be a great confirmation to our faith as to the scriptures , that they who were professed philosophers and admirers only of reason , did so readily embrace some of those grand truths which are contained in the word of god. for which we need no other instance , then that before us , concerning the origine of evil , the making out of which will tend to the clearing the last thing mentioned concerning it , which was that the most material things in it are attested by the heathens themselves . and this honey which is gained out of the lions mouth , must needs tast sweeter then any other doth . for it is a weak and groundless mistake on the other side , which is the second ( which ariseth from meeting things consonant to the scriptures in the writings of philosophers ) presently to conclude from such things that they were christians ( as it is said some have lately done in the behalf of hierocles . ) for there being such clear accounts given in scripture of the grand difficulties and perplexities which the minds of men were troubled with , when these came to the knowledge of such who were of philosophick and inquisitive heads , we cannot but think they would meet with acceptation among them , especially if they might be made consistent with their former speculations . thus it was in our present case concerning the origine of evil , we have already beheld the lamentable perplexities the ancient philosophers were in about it , what maeanders they were lost in for want of a clue to guide them through them ; now it pleased god after the coming of christ in the fl●sh●o ●o declare to the world the only way for the recovery 〈◊〉 souls and their eternal salvation , the news of which being spread so far that it soon got among the philosophers , could not but make them more inquisitive concerning the state and condition of their souls , and when they had searched what the philosophers had formerly discovered of it , their curiosity would presently prompt them to see what account of things concerning the souls of 〈◊〉 delivered by the preachers of this new doctrine . b● 〈◊〉 they could not but presently understand that they declared all mens souls to be in a most degenerate and low condition , by being so continually under the power of the most unreasonable and unruly passions , that they were estranged from god , and prone to fix on things very unsuitable to their nature , as to all which , their own inward sense and experience could but tell them that these things were notoriously true ; and therefore , they enquire further how these things came to be so ; which they receive a full account of in scripture , that mans soul was at first created pure and holy and in perfect friendship with god , that god dealt bountifully and favourably with man ; only expected obedience to his laws ; that man being a free agent did abuse his liberty , and disobeyed his maker ; and thence came the true 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the feathers of the soul whereby it soared up to heaven , moulted away , and the soul sunk below its self into a degenerate and apostate condition , out of which it is impossible to be recovered without some extraordinary expression of divine favour . now what is there in all this account , but what is hugely suitable to principles of reason , and to the general experience of the world , as to those things which were capable of being tryed by it ? and those philosophers who were any thing ingenu●us and lovers of truth , could not but confess the truth of those things which we are now speaking of , viz. that mens souls are in a very degenerate condition ; that the most rational account of it is , that man by the act of his own will brought himself into it ; and that in order to the happiness of mens souls , there was a necessity of recovery out of this condition . as to the degeneracy of the souls of men ; this was the common complaint of those philosophers , who minded the government of themselves , and the practice of vertue , especially of the platon●sts and stoicks . seneca in all his moral discourses , especially in his epistles , may speak sufficiently in behalf of the stoicks , how much they lamented the degeneracy of the world . and the platonists all complain of the slavery of the soul in the body , and that it is here by way o● punishment for something which was done before ; which makes me somewhat incurable to think , that plato knew more of the lapse of 〈◊〉 , then he would openly discover ; and for that end disguised it after his usual manner in that hypothesis of prae-existence , which taking it cabbalistically ( for i rather think the opinion of prae existence is so to be taken then the history of the fall of man ) may import only this . that mens souls might be justly supposed to be created happy , but by reason of the apostacy of mans soul from god , all souls now come into their bodies as into a kind of prison , they being enslaved to the brutish part within them , there having been such a true 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the soul being now deprived of her chiefest perfections in this her low and degenerate condition . and it seems far more rational to me to interpret those persons opinions to a cabbalistical , or an allegorical sense , who are known to have designedly writ in a way obscure and ambiguous , then to force those mens expressions to cabbala's , who profess to write a plain history , and that with the greatest simplicity and perspicuity ; but it cannot but seem very strange that an hypothesis capable of being reconciled to the plain literal sense of the scriptures ( delivered by a person who useth great artifice and cunning to disguise his opinions , and sueh a person withall , who ( by such persons themselves who make use of this opinion to that end ) is supposed to have been very conversant with the writings of moses ) should be taken in its literal sense , as it really imports prae-existence of each particular soul in the g●ossest manner ; and this should be made to be a part of the philosophick cabbala of the writings of such a person , who useth not the least artifice to disguise his sense , nor gives us anywhere the least intimation that he left behind him such plaited pictures in his history of the beginning of the world , that if you look straight forward , you may see a literal cabbala , on the one side a philosophical , and on the other a moral . but now if we remove the cabbala from moses to plato , we may finde no incongruity or repugnancy at all either as to plato his way of writing , or the consonancy of the opinion so interpreted to the plain genuine sense of moses , if by plato his opinion of the prae-existence and descent of souls , be understood by the former the happy state of the soul of man in conjunct●●● with god , and by the latter , the low and degenerate condi●●on which the soul is in , after apostacy from him . which ●he later platonists are so large and eloquent in expressing ; porphyrie where he speaks of somethings he counsels men to do , hath these words , but if we cannot do them , let us at least do that which was so much lamented of old , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . let us at least joyn with our fore-fathers in lamenting this , that we are compounded of such disagreeing and contrary principles , that we are not able to preserve divine , pure and unspotted innocency . and hierocles fully expresseth his sense of the degeneracy of mankind in these words : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the most of men in the world are bad , and under the command of their passions , and grown impotent through their propensity to earth ; which great evil they have brought upon themselves , by their wilfull apostacy from god , and withdrawing themselves from that society with him , which they once enjoyed in pure light : which departure of mens souls from god , which is so hurtfull to the minds of men , is evident by their strong inclination to the things of this world . the same author mentions , with much approbation , that speech of heraclitus , speaking of those souls which are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which i cannot better render , then undeclinably good , he saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : we live their death , and die their life . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for man is now fallen down from that blessed region , and as empedocles the pythagorean speaks , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . which words cannot be better rendred , then in the words the scripture useth concerning cain , and he went from the presence of the lord , and was 〈◊〉 fugitive in the earth , and under continual perplexiti●s . for the soul of man , having left 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( it is hierocles his own expression ) the pleasant meadow of truth ( a fit description of paradise ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . through the violence of her moulting , or deplumation , she comes into this earthly body , deprived of that blessed life , which she before enjoyed . which he tells us is very consonant to plato's sen●e o● the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or descent of souls , that when by reason of their impotency of fixing wholly ●on god they suffer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 some great loss , and a deprivation of former perf●ctions ( which i su●pose is me●nt by the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the ●●uls impotency of flying up above this earthly world ) then they lapse into these terrestrial and mortal bodies . so hierocles concludes with this excellent and divine speech , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . as therefore by apostacy from god , and the moulting of those feathers of our souls , whereby we may be raised up above this world , we have fallen into this place of mortals which is compassed about with evils : so by the casting off carnal affections , and by the growth of vertues like new feathers to the soul , we shall ascend to the place of pure and perfect good , and to the enjoyment of a divine life . so much more becoming christians do these excellent philosophers speak of the degeneracy of mens souls , and the consequents of it , then some who would be accounted the followers of reason as well as of christ , who make it so much of their business to extenuate the fall of man. which we find those who were meer philosophers , far more rational and ingenuous in , then those who pretend so highly to reason ; but i think with as little of it as any , supposing the scriptures to be of divine authority . but it is not here our businesse to consider the opinions of those who pretend to christianity , but only of such who pretending only to reason , have yet consented with the doctrine of the scriptures as the 〈◊〉 of the souls of men , that it lyes in an apostacy from 〈◊〉 and have lost those perfections which they had before . that mans will is the cause of his apostacy ; this we have already manifested at large from the testimony and reason of simplicius , and hierocles is as large and clear in it as the other , with expressions much of the same nature . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . mans nature lying between those beings which perpetually cont●mplate g●a , and those which are uncapable of it it sometimes ascends to those , and sometimes descends to these , according as it observes or rejects the dictates of reason , and so by reason of the indiff●rency of the will is lyable to take upon it the si● ilitu●e of god or a be●●st . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and whoever throughly considers this , will easily understand , how men are the causes of their own evils , and become unhappy and miserable through their own choice and self wills . which he brings in by way of explication of that truly golden pythagorean verse , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . men are grown miserable through their ownfault . and afterwards hierocles excellently describes the nature of evil in these words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . both our natural and contracted pravity , is nothing els● but the unnatural motion of our free wills : according to which saith he , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . we dare to contradict the laws of god ●et being sensible how much we injure our selves when we ●o it and only look at this that we are able to cast off the reins of 〈◊〉 laws from our necks . and he truly saith , that it is the greatest abuse of liberty to offend god , ●●en we either do what he forbids , or neglect what be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so that on both sides men bring misery upon themselves , by transgr●ssing the divine law , both by not doing what they are commanded , and by doing what they are forbidden . so that he tully ascribes the origine of evil to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as he calls it , the irregular motion of the will of man , which we have already shewed to be the doctrine of the scriptures . as to the necessity of the souls recovery from this condition in order to her felicity , we have these philosophers expressing their consent with the scriptures ; porphyrius as st. austin tells us in the end of his first book de regressu animae , doth acknowledge the necessity of a way of recovering souls , which should be universal . cum autem dicit porphyrius , nondum receptam unam quandam sectam , quae universalem viam animae contineat liberandae , — nondumque in suam notitiam eandem viam historiali cognitione perlatam , proculdubio confitetur esse aliquam , sed nondum in suam venisse notitiam . but the necessity of the purgation of the soul in order to its felicity , is so largely and fully discoursed of by all the platonists and pythagoreans , that it will be needless to insist upon it . thus far then we finde the account given of the origine of evil in scripture to be embraced by the sublimest of the heathen philosophers , as most rational and satisfactory ; which was the thing to be proved . neither do we sind only the main of this account acknowledged as rational , but we may trace some not obscure footsteps of the truth of the particular circumstances which concern the fall of man : among the heathens such as the devils envying of mans happiness , his disguising himself under the form of a serpent , and mans being thrown out of paradise upon his fall . . the devils envying the happiness of man. it hath been truly observed by a learned man , that the original of that very ancient opinion among the heathen de invidia daemonis had its rise from the history of the fall of man , which he hath made out so fully , that i shall the less need to prove it . and that there was an undoubted tradition of some malignant spirits which envyed the 〈◊〉 of mankinde , appears by that ample testimony of 〈◊〉 in his dio mentioned by the same author ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . plutarch was much troubled to give an account of the apparitions which brutus and dio who were learned and philosophical men were haunted withall ; and doubts he can give no just account of it , unless he embraced that very ancient tradition ( which yet seemed absurd and incredible , ) viz. that there are certain wicked and malignant daemons , which envy good men , and withstand their enterprises , by raising fears and troubles to them , that so they might hinder them in their pursuit of vertue ; lest if they continue stedfast and unmovable in good , they should be at last partakers of greater felicity then they enjoy . there being then so ancient a tradition of such 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( as the learned man mentioned hath more fully shewed in his notes on this place of plutarch , ) gives a great confirmation to the truth of what the scripture reports concerning the devils being so great an instrument in procuring the fall of man. to him therefore i refer the inquisitive reader , and shall only add to the testimonies of him cited , that of xenocrates in plutarch de i side & osiride , where he saith that the calamities of life and misfortunes men meet with , do not agree with that veneration which we have for the deity and good spirits , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but that there are in the air some great and potent beings , which are of a surly and malignant nature , and rejoyce to do men all the mischief they can . iamblichus in his answer to porphyrius concerning the aegyptian mysteries , undertakes to give an account of these evil spirits or daemons , and that from them the origine of evil in the world is ; for thus he speaks , ( as he is translated by ficinus ) si verum est quod de idolis dicebamus , improbisque daemonibus , hinc sane exoritur multiplex origo malorum . simulant enim deorum praesentiam , daemonumque bonorum , ideoque 〈◊〉 suum jubent esse justum , ut ipsi videantur boni , sici● 〈◊〉 dii ; quoniam vero natura sunt mali , rogati mala inferre , libenter inferunt , atque nobis ad injusta conducunt . hi sunt omnino qui & in oraculis mentiuntur & fallunt , & turpia consulunt atque peragunt . by which we see he acknowledgeth some spirits who●e natures are wicked , and help men to do evil , and that these very spirits may sometimes command that which is good , lest they should be suspected to be what they are , of a wicked and malignant nature , which only design the ruine of men . by which we have a good account of whatever was commendable delivered by the heathen oracles , which yet might come from the devil still , by this confession of iamblichus himself . for the devils appearing under the form of a serpent , it is very probably conjectured , that from hence it was that the prince of those who contended with saturn , was by that aenigmatical writer pher●cydes syrius called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . celsus who had so little ●kill in antiquity as to think that the history of moses was as to many passages of it taken out of heathen fables , insists on this very story of ophioneus as the groundw●rk of that relation in genesis concerning the fall. but origen well answers him , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . see therefore if this rare antiquary who charg●●h us with impi●●y in corrupting and alt●●ing the heathen fables , be not himself ●er● justly chargeable with the same fault , not understanding the far greater antiquity of the writings of mo●es , then either of heraclitus or pherecydes , or homer himself which reports the story of that evil one which fell from heaven . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for the serpent ( from which o hioneus in pherecydes derived his name ) which was the cause why man was cast forth of paradise , doth intimate some such thing ▪ while under a pretence of divinity , and of a 〈◊〉 condition 〈◊〉 fi st deceived the woman , and by her means 〈◊〉 man. c●lius rhodiginus c●lls this ophioneus daemonicum serpentem , qui antesignanus fu●rit agminis à divinae mentis placito deficientis . this pherecydes as appears by eusebius , had much converse with the phaenicians ; where he purposely speaks concerning this ophioneus . now the phaenicians as eusebius likewise tells us , worshipped their god under the form of a serpent ; which probably might be occasioned by the devils ambition and tyranny over men , that he would be worshipped among them in that very form wherein he had done so much mischief to the world . it was very early in the world , when the phaenicians and aegyptians did begin to adore their gods under the form of serpents , for the beginning of it is attributed to taautus by eusebius , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . neither was this only among the phaenicians and aegyptians , but whereever the devil raigned , the serpent was had in some peculiar veneration : thence iustin martyr saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; the serpent was the symbol of adoration among them ; and was the proper indicium or note of a consecrated place as is evident by that of persius , pinge duos angues ; pueri sacer est locus . thence the scholiast on aristophanes on that place in plutus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , observes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , so that where ever any god or heroe was to be worshipped , there were serpents painted to denote so much . so orus apollo saith of the aegyptians , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they were wont to put the form of a golden basilisk to their gods. heinsius conceives that the first worship of apollo at delphi was under the form of a serpent , whether nonnus tells us that cadmus the phaenician went upon his first coming into baeotia , and from hence he derives the name pytho from the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifies a serpent . ut non dubitandum sit , saith he , quin pythius apollo , hoc est , spurcus ille spiritus , quem hebraei ob & abaddon , hellenist●● ad verbum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , caeteri 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dixerunt , sub hac 〈◊〉 qua miseriam humano generi invexit , primo cultus sit in graecia . and which is further observable , the devil was alwayes ambitious to have the world think that the knowledge of good and evil was to come by the serpent still ; thence the famous oracle of apollo here at delphi ; thence came the use of serpents so much in divination , thence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies to divine from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a serpent ; and so among the greeks 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is taken in the same sense , from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a serpent . so that excellent glossographer hesychius ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the serpent was reckoned among the pedestria auspicia by the romans ; and homer tells in that solemn divination concerning the greeks success at troy there appears , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . which saith heinsius , is an exact description of the nachas ; whom they would have so called from the marks on h●s back , which they accurately observed in divination . thus we see how careful the devil was to advance his honour in the world under that form , wherein he had deceived mankind into so much folly and misery . we meet with some remainders of mans being cast out of paradise upon his fall among the heathens . origen thinks that plato by his converse with the iews in aegypt , did understand the history of the fall of man , which he after his way aenigmatically describes in his symposiacks . where he brings in porus the god of plenty feasting with the rest of the gods ; after supper penia comes a begging to the door ; porus being drunk with nectar , goes into jupiters garden , and there falls asleep ; penia observing it steals to him , and by this deceit conceived by him . in this fable of plato , origen takes notice what a near resemblance the garden of iupiter hath to paradise , penia to the serpent which circumvented adam , and porus to man who was deceived by the serpent . which he conceives more probable because of plato his custom , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to wrap up tho●e excellent things he knew under some fables because of the v●gar ; for which he after speaks of his custom in altering and disguising what he had from the iews , lest he should too much displease the fabulous greeks , if he should adhere too close to the iews , who were so infamous among them . some have thought the story of paradise was preserved among the heathens in the fable of the gardens of adonis which comes near that of eden ; but what footsteps may be gathered of the truth of scripture history in the heathen mythology , will appear afterwards . thus much here then may serve to have manifested the account which the scripture gives of the origine of evil by the fall of man to be in its self rational , and attested by the consent of such persons who cannot be suspected of any partiality to the scriptures . we come now to consider the other grand difficulty which concerns the origine of evil and the truth of divine providence together . which is , that if sin be the cause of misery , and there be a god which governs the world ; whence comes it to pass that the worst of men do so frequently escape sufferings , and the best do so commonly undergo them ? this hath been in all ages of the world where men have been philosophical and inquisitive , one of the great inquiries which the minds of men have been perplexed about . the true and full resolution of which question , depends much upon those grounds and principles which are discovered to us by divine revelation in the scriptures , concerning the grounds of gods patience towards wicked men , the nature and end of sufferings which good men are exercised with . and certainly this should very much commend the scriptures to all sober and inquisitive persons , that they contain in them the most clear and certain grounds of satisfaction to the minds of men , in such things , wherein they are otherwise so irresolved : but of that afterwards ; our present business is to give an account of this difficulty from natural reason , which will be most satisfactorily done by the producing those grounds , from which they have resolved this question , cur malisben● , & bonis male , who either have not had , or at least owned any thing of divine revelation . i begin with that which doth concern the prosperity and impunity of wicked men , which men have with mo●● confidence insisted on , o● this account , because all men could not but understand a general reason of sufferings , by reason there were none whose consciences could wholly acquit them of evil actions ; but why persons notoriously wicked should live in impunity , when others suffer , that they were unable to give an account of . and this was the common pretence of atheism , as simplicius tels us , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . it comes to pass , that such who have no grounded belief of a deity , when they observe the miseries of good men , and the tranquillity and felicity of bad men , they regard not the common notions they have of a deity , and are ready to cry out with the tragaedian ( or rather of aristophanes in his plutus ) shall i not dare to say there are no gods , when those do prosper who have injured me ? and it is observable ; that the most of those who have taken occasion among the heathens to question providence , have done it upon some remarkable injury which they have conceived to be done to themselves , and so we have ground to think that it was more passion and interest , then any clear reason which was the inducement to it . so diagoras resolves to set up for an atheist , because the perjured person was not struck dead in the place . and iason in seneca when he sees medea fly away after killing his children , cryes out , testare nullos esse qua veheris deos. thou tell'st the world there are no gods that way where thou dost fly . and so claudian , who largely reasons the case on both sides , for providence and against it , at last tells us what it was which was the main cause of his doubts : viz. the long impunity of rufinus , abstulit hunc tandem rufini poena tumultum absolvitque deos. rufinus death doth clear the gods , and set my mind at ease . but because some carry it higher , as cotta in tully , who reasons the most ( as became a statesman ) in reference to such persons who had been usefull or hurtfull to common wealths , we may suppose there might be somewhat more of reason then interest in such argumentations ; and yet even in those discourses we may still find that the main original of this quarrel against providence was an over-high esteem of themselves , that they thought they deserved better from the gods then to receive such injuries , or undergo such calamities . therefore cotta cryes out on providence , because such persons who were usefull to the roman commonwealth were destroyed when the enemies to it escaped , as though providence had been only a tutelar deity of rome , and had nothing to do elsewhere . thence he cryes out , if there be providence , why were the two scipio's destroyed in spain by the carthaginians ? why was maximus killed by hannibal ? why were the romans with paulus ruined at cannae ? why did regulus undergo so much cruelty by the carthaginians ? why did not africanus die in his own bed ? nay , saith he , to come nearer home , why is my uncle rutilius in banishment ? why was my friend drusus killed in his own house ? on the otherside , why did marius die in peace , and the most cruel cinna enjoy so long tranquillity ? with many other instances of both sorts . but this is it which i take notice of these for , because we hereby see how common it is for men to questi●● providence , more out of passion and interest , then ou● of any solid grounds of reason . let us therefore appeal from persons who were particularly engaged by some private interest in those passages , from whence they would infer that there was no providence , to such who stood by unconcerned , and made use of the free dictates of their reason in these cases . and such persons when they come to reason the case like philosophers , and men out of passion , have given satisfactory and rational accounts why god in his wise providence may sometimes suffer the worst of men , to go on in impunity , when good men may go through the troubles of this world . as , . god forbears wicked men , to propound the example of his goodnesse to their imitation , to teach them not to revenge their injuries too greedily on each other . this plutarch , in that admirable discourse of his on this subject , insists on as his first reason , why god doth not presently punish wicked men . for , saith he out of plato , god hath set forth ●imself in the midst of the world for our imitation ; and true vertue is nothing else but an imitation of the divine nature . and therefore god , saith plato , gave man the use of fight , that by the sight of the heavenly bodies , and the exact motions which are in them , men should learn 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that which was comely and orderly , and hate all disorderly and irregular motions ; for as he excellently speaks : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . there is no greater benefit man can receive from god , then to attain true vertue by the imitation and pursuit of those perfections which are in him . and thence , saith plutarch , god forbears to punish wicked men presently , not least if he should punish them he might do that he would repent of afterwards , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but that he might take away the fury and violence of men in revenging their injuries on each other , that they should not do it in wrath and anger , with as much eagerness as they satisfie their hunger and thirst , whereby they do , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , leap upon them who have injured them , with as much sury as a wilde beast upon his prey ; but men should learn to imitate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , gods gentlenesse and patience , whereby he gives the offender time to consider with himself what he hath done , before he doth severely punish him . as plato when his boy had angred him , stood still a while without striking him , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as he said , punishing himself first for his anger , before he would chastise the boy for his fault ; and archytas when he saw how negligent his workmen had been , and began to be very angry with them , told them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it is well for you that i am angry with you . now saith plutarch , if the consideration of this forbearance in men should tend to moderate mens heat and violence , how much more should the consideration of the leni●y and patience of god do it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and to account gentleness and forbearance to be an imitation of divine perfections . now what can be more rational and agreeable to our apprchensions of a divine nature then this is , that he should shew his goodness to all , and by his forbearance of so many , teach the world more meekness and gentleness towards each other ? for if offences rise by the quality of the person against whom they are committed , no injuries can be so great in one man to another , as those affronts are men put upon god by their continual provocations of him : and if god then be of so infinite patience to forbear such who have offended him , what justice and reason is there but that men should express more lenity and patience towards each other ? so hieroc●●● excellently speaks , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a good man imitates god in the measures of friendship , who hates no man , and extends his loving kindnesse to all mankind . of which seneca likewise somewhere speaks . ne deos quidem immortales ab hac tam effusa benignitate sacrilegi negligentesque corum deterrent ; utuntur natura sua , & cuncta , interque illa , ipsos munerum suorum malos interpretes juvant . the divine benignity extends its self to all , even to such as affront and dishonour them and abuse the gifts they bestow upon them . and since , there is so much truth and reason in that of plato , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it is the height of goodnesse to be like to god , we see what excellent reason there is for tha● command of our saviour , love your enemies , and do good , and lend , hoping for nothing again ; and your reward shall be great , and ye shall be the children of the highest ; for he is kind unto the unthankful , and to the evil . be ye therefore mercifull , as your father is mercifull . . god forbears presently to punish wicked men , to give them time to become better . this the same excellent moralist gives as another account of gods patience , that thereby he gives them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a space to repent as the scripture calls it . for men , saith plutarch , in their punishments look at nothing further then meer satisfying their revenge and malice , and that makes them pursue those that have offended them with so much rage and eagerness ; but god , saith he , aims at the cure of those who are not utterly incurable . to such he gives , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a time to reform in . here he brings in the examples of such who were bad at first , and came afterwards to be changed from what they were ; for which he instanceth in cecrops , who was thence called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because from a cruel severe prince , he became gentle and mild ; and so gelon and hieron of sicily , and pisistratus the son of hippocrates , who from being usurpers became excellent princes . if miltiades , saith he , had been cut off while he acted the part of a tyrant , or cimon in his incest , or themistocles in his debaucheries , what had become of marathon , eurymedon , dianium , by which the athenians got so great glory and liberty ? and as he well observes , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , great spirits do nothing mean ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . that sharp and active spirit that is in them can never lye at rest by reason of its vigour , but they are tossed up and down , as it were in a tempest , till they come to a setled composed life . but as the multitudes of weeds argues the richness and softness of the ground , though for the sake of those weeds one not skild in husbandry would not account such ground worth looking after ; so , saith he , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; great spirits usually bring forth no commenaable fruits at first ; which we considering the danger and hurtfulness of , are presently for cutting them down ; but one that more wisely considers the generous nature which may lye under this ill fruit , waits time and leasure , till reason and age begins to master these head-strong passions . and therefore according to the prudent law of the aegyptians , the woman with child must be reprieved till the time of her delivery . . god spares some wicked men from punishment to make them instruments of his justice in punishing others . ev●ol● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as plutarch goes on , god spares some from punishment that by them he might punish others . which he supposeth to be the case of all tyrants ; and thereby cotta's difficulty concerning marius , cinna , sylla and those other cruel and tyrannical persons , who had usurped authority among them , is clearly taken off : for divine providence might let those trees grow from whence he intended to take his rods to scourge others with all . god makes the same use of tyrants ( saith plutarch ) to common-wealths , that physitians do of the gall of a hyaena and other hurtful creatures , which may be good for curing some dangerous diseases ; so may the tyrannical severity and sharpness of such persons be continued 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , till the diseases of the political body be cured by these sharp medicines . such a one was phalaris to the agrigentines , and marius to the romans : and the oracle told the sicyonians in express terms , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; the city wanted some severe discipline . thence totilas , when he found what strange success he had in his enterprises , called himself flagellum dei , and thought god raised him up on purpose to be a scourge for the sins of the world . and no doubt those strange passages of the roman common-wealth ( which made cato at least dispute providence , and say res divinas multum habere caliginis , when he saw pompey successful as long as he served his ambition , but presently overthrown when he stood for the common-wealth ) these things , i say , had a higher end then they looked at , which was to make both pompey and caesar the instruments of divine justice to punish the romans for their lusts , ambition and cruelty , which were never greater then in that age . now then if god may justly punish offenders , why may he not spare some to make them his instruments in the punishing of others , especially since after he hath used his rods he may cast them into the fire too ? as was evident in the instance of caesar , who after all his slaughters and triumphs was murdered in the senate , and that by some who had been as active as any for him . and herein divine justice , both as to the punishment of the persons and the means of it , hath been very remarkable in multitudes of instances , which every ones reading may afford him . . therefore , another account why god may spare wicked men a great while , is , that divine providence might more remarkably be observed in the manner of their punishment afterwards . plutarch tells us of callippus , who was stabd by his enemies with the samd dagger with which he had kild dion under a pretence of friendship . and when mitius the argive was kild in a tumult , afterwards upon the day of a solemn shew , a brass statue in the market place fell upon his murderer and kild him there . but most remarkable is the story of belsus recorded by the same author , who having kild his father and a long time concealed it , goes one night to supper to some friends , and while he was there , thrusts up his spear into a swallows nest and pulls it down and kills the young ones ; his friends asking him the reason of so strange an action : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; do not you bear , saith he , how they falsly accuse me , and cry out that i have kild my father ? which being by the persons present carried to the king , and the truth of it found out , he was executed for it . such strange wayes doth providence sometimes use to shew how vigilant it is , even when we think it sleeps the most . . though god spares the persons of wicked men , he doth not defer their punishment , when the thoughts of their evil actions is the greatest torment to them ; maxima peccat● pena est , peccasse , as seneca speaks . sin bears its own punishment along with it . wickedness is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the most exquisite contriver of misery , which fills the minds of those who commit it with continual consternations , anxieties and perplexities of mind . but as that often and deservedly cited author on this subject , plutarch tells us , most men are in this like children , who when they behold malefactors in the theatres in their cloth of gold and purple robes , with their crowns on their heads dancing about , they admire them , and imagine them to be most happy men , till they see them lashed and beaten , and fire come out from their brave apparel ; so saith he , as long as men see others in their pomp and grandeur , they think them far from punishment , till they behold their execution , which saith he , is not so much the entrance of their punishment as the perfection of it . so that the longer the time of their lives is , the longer is the time of their punishment here ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; they are not punished when they grow old , but they are grown old in punishments . cannot we say a person is punished while he is in prison and hath his fetters upon him , till his execution comes ? nor that one that hath drunk poison , is a dying while he walks about till the cold comes to his heart and kills him ? if we deny , saith he , that all the inquietudes , horrors and anxieties of mind which wicked men have , are no part of their punishment , we may as well say that a fish which bath swallowed the hook is not taken , because he is not fryed , or cut in pieces . so it is with every wicked man , he hath swallowed the hook when he hath committed an evil action ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) and his conscience within him , as he expresseth it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . which in the prophets expression is , the wicked are like a troubled sea which casts forth nothing but mire and dirt . as apollodorus dreamt , that he was flead , and boyled by the scythians , and that his heart spake to him out of the cauldron , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i am the cause of all this . god deals by wicked men as caligula was wont to say of those he commanded to be executed , ferit ut sentiant se mori , he so punishes them as to make them sensible of their punishments . and as tacitus speaks of cruel and wicked persons , quorum mentes si recludantur poss●nt aspici laniatus & ictus ; quando ut corpora verberibus , ita saevitia , libidine , malis consult is animus dilaceretur . wiekedness is the only fury which continually haunts and lashes those who delight in it , and leaves still behind it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , loathsome and terrible perturbations , secret gripings of conscience and self condemning thoughts for their folly and wickedness ; like lysimachus , who for extream thirst offered his kingdom to the getae to quench it , which when he had done , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . what a wretch was i ( saith he ) to lose such a kingdom for so short a pleasure ! and though wicked men be not sensible of the loss of a far more glorious kingdom then this of lysimachus , viz. that of heaven , yet they cannot but be sensible how much they have lost that kingdom which every good man hath in the tranquillity of his spirit , and the command of his passions . . the time that god spares wicked men , is not so long as we think for . it is all one , as plutarch saith , as if we should complain , that the malefactor was punished in the evening and not in the morning ; gods forbearance is but for a very little time , compared with his own duration . we measure god by the short hour-glass of our own time , when we are so ready to confine him to our measures . the time seems long to us , but it is as nothing in its self : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the whole life of man compared with eternity is nothing . besides all this time god suffers wicked men to live here , he hath them under safe custody ; he doth but let them take the air within the prison-walls , or it may be they may play and sport themselves there , but there is no possibility of escaping out of the hands of divine justice . . god forbears wicked men here , because the time is to come wherein god intends to punish them . this is the highest vindication of divine providence as to the present impunity of wicked men in the world , because this is not the proper season for the open execution of iustice. there are but few in comparison whom iustice causeth to be executed in the ●rison , of what are reserved for the general assizes ; god reserves them for a fair and open tryal , for the greater vindication of his honour and manifestation of his iustice to the world . and although gods judgements even in this world be sometimes so remarkable , that we cannot but see a hand of providence in them , yet they are but few whom god doth so remarkably punish here to make us more firmly believe a day of judgement to come . which though it be most clearly and fully revealed in scripture , yet the heathens themselves from meer reason have had such a perswasion of it , that they have given this as another great reason , why god did forbear to punish wicked men here , because he did reserve them for future punishment . for as the same moralist speaks in the same discourse concerning the soul , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , this present life is the place of the souls combat , which when it hath finished , it then receives according to its performance of it . and as he before speaks , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the same reason which confirms providence , doth likewise confirm the immortality of the soul ; and if one be taken away , the other follows . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and if the soul doth subsist after death , it stands to the greatest reason that it should there receive either reward or punishment . thus we see how far natural light and moral reason will carry men in the vindicating divine providence as to the present impunity of wicked men . the other part which concerns the sufferings of good men is not of so great difficulty , because there are none so good as not to have a mixture of evil in them , and as they have a mixture of evil , so they have but a mixture of punishment ; none lying under so great miseries here but withall they have some share in the comforts of this life . and therefore it is less wonder , that this part of divine providence which concerns the sufferings of good men , hath not wanted some among the heathen moralists who have made it their design to vindicate it ; which setting aside what simplicius on epictetus and many others have done , is fully performed by seneca in his tract on this very s●●●●ct , ●●ur bonis male sit , cum sit providentia , ( as muretu●● restores the title of that book ) wherein these following accounts are given of it . . god brings them up as his children under sharp discipline for their future benefit . a good man in seneca's language , is discipulus dei , aemulatorque , & vera progenies : which in the language of the scripture is one taught of god , a follower of god , and one born of him . now saith he , parens ille magnificus , virtutum non lenis exactor , sicut severi patres , durius educat . god who is the great father of good men , keeps them under discipline while under age , and by hardship fits them for the practice of vertue . thence he bids us take notice of the different indulgence of fathers and mothers to their children ; the father he hastens them to school , suffers them not to be idle on their playdayes , makes them toyle and sometimes cry ; the mother she is all for holding them in her lap , keeping them out of the sun , and from catching cold , would not willingly have them either cry or take pains . patrium habet deus adversus bonos animum , & illos fortius amat . god bears the indulgence of a father towards his children and loves them with greater severity . . good men receive benefit by their sufferings ; quicquid evenit in suum colorem trahit , saith seneca of a good man , which in the language of the apostle is , every thing works together for his good . the sea loseth nothing , saith he , of its saltness by the rivers running into it , neither doth a good man by the current of his sufferings . and of all benefits which he receives , that of the exercise and tryal of his vertue and patience is most discernable . marcet sine adversario virtus ; as soon as carthage was destroyed , rome fell to luxury : true wrestlers desire to have some to try their strength upon them ; cui non industrio otium poena est ? an active spirit hates idleness and cowardise ; for etiamsi ceciderit , de genu pugnat , though his legs be cut off , he will fight on his knees . . it redounds to gods honour when good men bear up under sufferings . ecce par deo dignum vir fortis cum mala fortuna compositus . it is a spectacle god delights to see , a good man combat with calamities . god doth in seneca's phrase quosdam fastidio transire ▪ passeth them by in a slight ; an old wrestler scorns to contend with a coward , one who is vinci paratus , ready to yeild up presently . calamitates sub jugum mittere proprium magni viri est , it argues a noble spirit to be able to subdue miseries . . it tends to the tryal and increase of their strength seneca highly extols that speech of the philosopher demetrius , nihil infelicius eo cui nihil unquam evenit adversi ; non licuit enim illi se experiri . he is the most unhappy man who never knew what misery meant ; for he could never know what he was able to bear . and , as he saith , to pass ones life away sine morsu animi , without any trouble , it is ignorare rerum naturae alteram partem , not to know what is upon the reverse of nature . idem licet fecerint qui integri revertuntur ex acie , magis spectatur qui sancius redit . though he that comes home sound might fight as well as he that is wounded , yet the wounded person hath the more pitty , and is most cryed up for his valour . the pilot is seen in a tempest , a souldier in battel , and a good man in sufferings . god doth by such , as masters do by scholars , qui plus laboris ab his exigunt , quibus certior spes est : who set the best wits the hardest tasks . . god exerciseth good men with sufferings , to discover the indifferency of those things which men value so much in the world , when he denyes them to good men . blindness would be hateful , if none were blind but such whose eyes were put out ; and therefore appius and metellus were blind . riches are no good things , therefore the worst as well as the best have them . nullo modo magis potest deus concupita traducere , quam si illa ad turpissimos defert , ab optimis abigit . god could not traduce or defame those things more which men desire so much , then by taking them away from the best of men , and giving them to the worst . . that they might be examples to others of patience and constancy ; for as seneca concludes , nati sunt in exemplar , they are born to be patterns to others . if to these things we add what the word of god discovers concerning the nature , grounds , and ends of afflictions , and that glory which shall be revealed , in comparison with which exceeding weight of glory these light and momentany afflictions are not at all to be valued , then we have a clear and full vindication of divine providence , as to the sufferings of good men , as well as to the impunity of such as are wicked . but how ever from hence we see how far the meer light of reason hath carryed men in resolving these difficulties concerning gods providence in the world , and what a rational account may be given of them , supposing evil of punishment to arise from sin , and that there is a god in the world , who is ready to punish the wicked and to reward the good : which was the thing to be shewed . chap. iv. of the origine of nations . all mankind derived from adam , if the scriptures be true . the contrary supposition an introduction to atheism . the truth of the history of the flood . the possibility of an universal deluge proved . the flood universal as to mankind , whether universal as to the earth and animals ; no necessity of asserting either . yet supposing the possibility of it demonstrated without creation of new waters . of the fountains of the deep . the proportion which the height of mountains bears to the diameter of the earth . no mountains much above three mile perpendicular . of the origine of fountains . the opinion of aristotle and others concerning it discussed . the true account of them from the vapours arising from the mass of subterraneous waters . of the capacity of the ark for receiving the animals from buteo and others . the truth of the deluge from the testimony of heathen nations . of the propagation of nations from noahs posterity . of the beginning of the assyrian empire . the multiplication of mankind after the flood . of the chronology of the lxx . of the time between the flood and abraham , and the advantages of it . of the pretence of such nations , who called themselves aborigines . a discourse concerning the first plantation of greece , the common opinion propounded and rejected . the hellens not the first inhabitants of greece , but the pelasgi . the large spread of them over the parts of greece ; of their language different from the greeks . whence these pelasgi came ; that phaleg was the pelasgus of greece , and the leader of that colony proved from epiphanius : the language of the pelasgi in greece oriental : thence an account given of the many hebrew words in the greek language , and the remainders of the eastern languages in the islands of greece , both which not from the phaenicians as bochartus thinks , but from the old pelasgi . of the ground of the affinity between the jews and lacedaemonians . of the peopling of amercia . the next thing we proceed to give a rational account of , in the history of the fi●●t ages of the world contained in scripture , is the peopling of the world from adam . which is of great consequence for us to understand , not only for the satisfaction of our curiosity as to the true origine of nations , but also in order to our believing the truth of the scriptures , and the universal effects of the fall of man. neither of which can be sufficiently cleared without this . for as it is hard to conceive how the effects of mans fall should extend to all mankinde , unless all mankind were propagated from adam ; so it is unconceivable how the account of things given in scripture should be true , if there were persons existent in the world long before adam was . since the scripture doth so plainly affirm , that god hath made of one blood all nations of men , for to dwell on the face of the earth ; some greek copyes read it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , leaving out 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which the vulgar latin follows : the arabick version to explain both , reads it ex homine , or as de dieu renders it ex adamo uno , there being but the difference of one letter in the eastern languages between 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the one denoting blood , and the other man. but if we take it as our more ordinary copyes read it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , yet thereby it is plain , that the meaning is not , that all mankind was made of the same uniform matter , as the author of the prae-adamites weakly imagined ( for by that reason , not only mankind , but the whole world might be said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the same blood , since all things in the world were at first formed out of the same matter ) but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is taken there in the sense in which it occurs in the best greek authors for the stock out of which men come : so homer , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . thence those who are near relations , are called in sophocles , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; thence the name of consanguinity for nearness of relation ; and virgil useth sanguis in the same sense , trojano à sanguine duci . so that the apostles meaning is , that however men now are so dispersed in their habitations , and differ so much in language and customs from each other , yet they all were originally of the same stock , and did derive their succession from that first man whom god created . neither can it be conceived on what account adam in the scripture is called the first man , and that he was made a living soul , and of the earth , earthy ; unless it were to denote that he was absolutely the first of his kind , and so was to be the standard and measure of all that follows . and when our saviour would reduce all things to the beginning , he instanceth in those words which were pronounced after eve was formed , but from the beginning of the creation god made them male and female ; for this cause shall a man leave father and mother and cleave unto his wife . now nothing can be more plain and easie then from hence to argue thus ; those of whom those words were spoken , were the first male and female which were made in the beginning of the creation ; but it is evident these words were spoken of adam and eve : and adam said , this is now bone of my bone , and flesh of my flesh : therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave unto his wife . if the scriptures then of the new testament be true , it is most plain and evident that all mankind is descended from adam ; and no less conspicuous is it from the history of the creation as delivered by moses . for how necessary had it been for moses , when he was giving an account of the origine of things , to have discovered by whom the world was first planted , if there had been any such plantation before adam ; but to say that all the design of moses was only to give an account of the origine and history of the iewish nation , and that adam was only the first of that stock , is manifestly ridiculous , it being so clear , that not only from adam and noah , but from sem , abraham , and isaac came other nations besides that of iews . and by the same reason that it is said , that moses only speaks of the origine of the iewish nation in the history of adam , it may as well be said that moses speaks only of the making of canaan , and that part of the heavens which was over it , when he describes the creation of the world in the six dayes work . for why may not the earth in the second ver . of genesis be as well understood of the land of iudea , and the light and production of animals and vegetables refer only to that , as to understand it so in reference to the flood , and in many other passages relating to those eldest times ? but the author of that hypothesis answers , that the first chapter of genesis may relate to the true origine of the world and the first peopling of it , but in the second moses begins to give an account of the first man and woman of the iewish nation . very probable ! but if this be not a putting asunder those which god hath joyned together , nothing is . for doth not moses plainly at first give an account of the formation of things in the first six dayes , and of his rest on the seventh ? but how could he be said to have rested then from the works of creation , if after this followed the formation of adam and eve in the second chapter ? besides if the forming of man mentioned , gen. . . be distinct from that mentioned . gen. . . then by all parity of reason , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the generations of heaven and earth mentioned , gen. . . must be distinct from the creation of the heaven and earth mentioned , gen. . . and so if there were another creation of heaven and earth belonging to the iews in gen. . we may likewise believe that there was a new creation of man and woman in that chapter distinct from that mentioned in the former . again further , if there had been any such persons in the world before adam , no doubt adam himself was ignorant of them ; or else it had been a false and ridiculous account which he gives of the name of his wife 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because she was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the mother of all living . not of all living things , for that had been a more proper description of a ceres , or magna mater , or diana multimammia , of our grand-mother the earth , but certainly it extends to all of the kind , that all living creatures that are of humane nature came from her . so the chalde● paraphrast understands it , she was called hava , because she was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the mother of all the sons of men . and so the arabick version , quia ipsa fuit mater omnis viventis rationalis . to which purpose our learned selden cites the version of the mauritanian iews , and the persick of tawasius . but what ever the credit or authority of these versions be , this is most certain , that adam had no reason at all to have given this name to his wife , as being the mother of all living , if there had been any of mankind existing in the world from other mothers , which had been long before eve was formed . so that we find it plain and clear , that if the report given of things in scripture be true , the hypothesis of prae-adamites is undoubtedly false . and certainly who ever seriously considers the frequent reflections on the authority of the scriptures which were cast by the author of that fiction , and his endeavouring on all occasions to derogate from the miracles recorded in it , may easily suspect the design of that author was not to gain any credit to his opinion from those arguments from scripture , which he makes shew of ( which are pittifully weak and ridiculous ) but having by the help of such arguments made his opinion more plausible , his hope was that his opinion would in time undermine the scriptures themselves . when he had made it appear that the account given in the scriptures of the plantation of the world was unsatisfactory , since there were men before adam , which the scriptures to please the iewish nation , take no notice of . so that after he had attempted to prostitute the scriptures to his opinion , his next work had been to have turned them out of doors , as not of credit to be relyed on by any when they were so common to every opinion . but how impious , absurd and rude that attempt was upon the sacred and inviolable authority of the scriptures , hath been so fully discovered by his very many not unlearned adversaries , that it might seem needless so much as to have taken notice of so weakly grounded , and infirmly proved an opinion , had it not thus far lain in my way in order to the clearing the true origine of nations according to the scriptures . the main foundations of which fabulous opinion lying chiefly in the pretended antiquities of the chaldaeans , egyptians , and others , have been fully taken away in our first bsok , where our whole design was to manifest the want of credibility in those accounts of ancient times , which are delivered by heathen nations in opposition to the scriptures . there is nothing at all in scripture from the creation of adam to the flood which seems to give any countenance to that figment , but only what may be easily resolved from the consideration of the great conciseness of the mosaick history , in reporting that long interval of time which was between the fall of adam , and the flood ; by means of which conciseness such things are reported as speedily done , because immediatly succeeding in the story , which asked a very considerable time before they could be effected , and besides all things which were done before the flood , being all quite obliterated by it , and all the numerous posterity of adam being then destroyed ( only noah and his family excepted ) to what purpose had it been any further to have reported the passages before the flood , otherwise then thereby to let us understand the certainty of the succession of persons from adam , and such actions in those times which might be remarkable discoveries of gods providence and mans wickedness in it , which being most apparent at first in cain and his posteriry , did by degrees so spread its self over the face of the then inhabited world , that the just god was thereby provoked to send a deluge among them to sweep away the present inhabitants to make room for another generation to succeed them . this therefore we now come to consider , viz. the history of the flood , and the certainty of the propagation of the world from the posterity of noah after the flood . i begin with the history of the flood its self , as to which two things will be sufficient to demonstrate the truth of it . . if there be nothing in it repugnant to reason . . if we have sufficient evidence of the truth of it , from such who yet have not believed the scriptures . there are only two things which seem questionable to reason concerning the flood ; the first , is , concerning the possibility of the flood its self ; the other is , concerning the capacity of the ark for preserving all kinds of animals . the only ground of questioning the possibility of such a flood , as that is related in scripture , hath been from hence , that some have supposed it impossible , that all the water which is contained in the ayr , supposing it to fall down , should raise the surface of water upon the earth a foot and a balf in height ; so that either new waters must be created to overflow the earth , or else there must be supposed a rarefaction of the water contained in the sea and all rivers , so that it must take up at least fifteen times the space that now it doth ; but then , they say , if the water had been thus rarified , it could neithe● have destroyed man nor beast , neither could noabs ark have been born up by it any more then by liquid ayre . to this therefore , i answer . first , i cannot see any urgent necessity from the scripture to assert , that the flood did spread its self over all the surface of the earth . that all mankinde ( those in the ark excepted ) were destroyed by it , is most certain according to the scriptures . when the occasion of the flood is thus expressed , and god saw that the wickedness of man was great upon earth , and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually . and the lord said , i will destroy man whom i have created from the face of the earth . it could not be then any particular deluge of so small a country as palestine , which is here expressed , as some have ridiculously imagined ; for we find an universal corruption in the earth mentioned as the cause ; an universal threatening upon all men for this cause ; and afterwards an universal destruction expressed , as the effect of this flood . and all fl●sh died that moved upon the earth , and every man. and every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground , both man and cattell , and the creeping things , and the fowl of the heaven , and they were destroyed from the earth , and noah only remained alive , and they that were with him in the ark. so then it is evident that the flood was universal as to mankind , but from thence follows no necessity at all of asserting the universality of it as to the globe of the earth , unless it be sufficiently proved that the whole earth was peopled before the flood : which i despair of ever seeing proved . and what reason can there be to extend the flood beyond the occasion of it , which was the corruption of mankinde ? and it seems very strange that in so short an interval , in comparison as that was from adam to the flood , according to the ordinary computation , viz. . years , and not much above two thousand , according to the largest , the world should then be fully peopled , when in so much longer a space of time since the flood to this day , the earth is capable of receiving far more inhabitants , then now it hath . the only probability then left for asserting the universality of the flood , as to the globe of the earth , is from the destruction of all living creatures together with man ; now though men might not have spread themselves over the whole surface of the earth , yet beasts and creeping things might which were all destroyed with the flood : for it is said , that all flesh died that moved upon the earth , both of fowl and of cattel , and of beast , and of every creeping thing , that creepeth upon the earth , and every man. to what end should there be not only a note of universality added , but such a particular enumeration of the several kinds of beasts , creeping things , and fowls , if they were not all destroyed ? to this i answer . i grant as far as the flood extended , all these were destroyed ; but i see no reason to extend the destruction of these beyond that compass and space of earth where men inhabited : because the punishment upon the beasts was occasioned by , and could not but be concomitant with the destruction of mankinde , but ( the occasion of the deluge being the sin of man , who was punished in the beasts , that were destroyed for his sake , as well as in himself ) where the occasion was not , as where there were animals , and no men , there seems no necessity of extending the flood thither . but to what end then it will be replied , did god command noah with so much care to take of all kind of beasts , and birds , and creeping things into the ark with him , if all these living creatures were not destroyed by the flood ? i answer , because all those things were destroyed where ever the flood was ; suppose then the whole continent of asia was peopled before the flood , which is as much as we may in reason suppose , i say , all the living creatures in that continent were all destroyed ; or if we may suppose it to have extended over our whole continent of the anciently known world ; what reason would there be that in the opposite part of the globe , viz. america , which we suppose to be unpeopled then , all the living creatures should there be destroyed because men had sinned in this ? and would there not on this ●●p●osition have been a sufficient reason to preserve living creatures in the ark for future propagation , when all other living creatures extant had been in such remote places as would not have been accessible by them in many generations , and those beasts growing wilde for want of inhabitants , would not have proved presently serviceable for the use of men after the flood ? which was certainly the main thing looked at in the preservation of them in the ark , that men might have all of them ready for their use presently after the flood , which could not have been , had not the several kinds been preserved in the ark , although we suppose them not destroyed in all parts of the world . all this proceeds on supposition that animals were propagated much further in the world then men were , before the flood . which i confess seems very probable to me , on this account because the production of animals is parallel in genesis with that of fishes , and both of them different from man ; for god saith , let the waters bring forth every moving creature that hathlife ; viz. fish , and fowl ; and accordingly it is said , that the waters brought forth abundantly every living creature after their kind , and every fowl after his kind . accordingly in the production of beasts , we read , let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind , cattel , and creeping thing , and beast of the earth after his kind , and it was so : but in the production of man , it is said , let us make man in our own likeness . from hence i observe this difference between the production of animals , and of man , that in the one god gave a prolifick power to the earth and waters for production of the several living creatures which came from them ; so that the seminal principles of them were contained in the matter out of which they were produced , which was otherwise in man , who was made by a peculiar hand of the great creator himself , who thence is said to have formed man of the dust of the ground . now therefore although there were but one male and female of mankinde at first● which had a special formation by god himself ; yet there is no reason we should conceive it to be so as to the production of oth●r living creatures , whether fish , or fowl , or beasts ; b●t the prolifick vertue being by gods power given to that material principle out of which they were formed , it may very well be supposed that many of the same kind were at first produced . for it seems very strange to imagine that in the whole ocean there should be only two of a kind produced ; but fish and fowl both arising from the water , we may have just reason to think , that the waters being separated before this prolifick vertue was communicated to the whole masse of waters , might in the several parts of the globe of the earth , bring forth both fish and fowl after their kinds . the same i say of the production of animals in the sixth days work , which are ranked into three sorts , cattel , creeping things , and beasts of the earth after their kinds ; now god saying , let the earth bring forth her living creatures ( and that after the waters had divided some parts of the earth from other , so that there could be no passage for the cattel , creeping things , and beasts out of one part into another , without the help of man ) it seems very probable that at least those parts of the earth which were thus divided from each other , did bring forth these several living creatures after their kinds , which did after propagate in those parts without being brought thither by the help of man. if now this supposition be embraced , by it we presently clear our selves of many difficulties concerning the propagation of animals in the world , and their conservation in the ark , which many have been so much to seek for satisfaction in . as how the unknown kind of serpents in brasil , the slow-bellied creature of the indies , and all those strange species of animals seen in the west indies should either come into the ark of noah , or be conveyed out of it into those countries which are divided from that continent where the flood was by so vast an ocean on the one side , and at least so large a tract of land on the other ( supposing any passage but of one continent into another , which yet hath not been discovered . ) besides some kind of animals cannot live out of that particular clime wherein they are ; and there are many sorts of animals discovered in america , and the adjoyning islands , which have left no remainders of themselves in these parts of the world . and it seems very strange that these , should propagate into those remote parts of the world from the place of the flood , and leave none at all of their number behind them in those parts from whence they were propagated . these things at least make that opinion very probable which extends the production of animals beyond that of mankinde in the old world , and that the flood though it destroyed all mankinde , and every living creature within that compass wherein mankind inhabited , yet might not extend its self to those parts , and the animals therein , in which men had never inhabited . and by this means we need not make so many miracles as some are fain to do about the slood ; and all those difficulties concerning the propagation of animals do of themselves vanish and fail to the groud . this is the first way of resolving the difficulty concerning the possibility of the flood , by asserting it not to have been over the whole globe of the earth , but only over those parts where mankinde inhabited . secondly , suppose the flood to have been over the whole globe of the earth , yet there might have been water enough to have overwhelmed it to the height mentioned in scripture . for which we are to consider that many causes concurred to the making of this deluge ; first , the air was condensed into clouds , and those fell down with continued force and violence , not breaking into drops , but all in a body ( which sir walter rawleigh parallels with the spouts of the west indies ) which are thence called the cataracts or flood-gates of heaven , god loosening ( as he expresseth it ) the power retentive which was in the clouds , and so the waters must needs fall in abundance , according to the expression in iob , behold he withholdeth the waters , and they dry up , also he sendeth them out , and they overturn the earth . now , i say , although these waters falling down with so much fury and violence , as well as in so great abundance , might quickly destroy all living creatures ; yet this was not all for god who held in the ocean within its bounds , whereby he saith to it , thus far it shall go , and no farther , might then give it commission to execute his justice upon the sinfull world : and to all this , we have another cause of the deluge , which was , that the fountains of the great deep were broken up . by which vatablus , most probably understands , immensam illam & profundam aquarum copiam quae est subter terram : that vast body of waters which lies in the bowels of the earth ; now when all these fountains were broken up , and the waters within the earth rush out with violence and impetuosity upon it , it must needs cause an inundation so great as that is mentioned in the scripture . for as that judicious historian sir w. rawleigh observes , let us consider that the earth had above . miles compass , the diameter of the earth according to that circle . mile , and then from the superficies to the center . mile ; take then the highest mountain of the world , caucasus , taurus , tenariff , or any other , and i do not finde , saith he , that the highest exceeds thirty miles in height : it is not then impossible , answering reason with reason , that all those waters mixed within the earth , . miles deep , should be able to cover the space of . miles in height , which . miles upright being found in the depths of the earth . times ; for the fountains of the great deep were broken , and the waters drawn out of the bowels of the earth . but then withall , saith he , if we consider the proportion which the earth bears to the air about it , we may easily understand the possibility of the flood , without any new creation of waters ; for supposing so much air to be condensed , and so turned into water which doth encompass the earth , it will not seem strange to men of judgement , yea but of ordinary understanding , that the earth ( god so pleasing ) was covered over with waters , without any new creation . but this will yet appear more probable if the height of the highest mountains doth bear no greater a proportion to the diameter of the earth , then of the . part to the whole , supposing the diameter of the earth to be . miles , as p. gassendus computes both . and it is more then probable , that men have been exceedingly mistaken , as to the height of mountains , which comes so far short of what sir walter rawleigh allows to them , that the highest mountain in the world will not be found to be five direct miles in height taking the altitude of them from the plain they stand upon . olympus whose height is so extold by the poets and ancient greeks , that it is said to exceed the clouds , yet plutarch tells us that xenagoras measured it and sound it not to exceed a mile and a half perpendicular and about . paces . much about the same height pliny saith that dicaearchus found the mountain pelion to be . the mount athos is supposed of extraordinary height , because it cast its shadow into the isle of lemnos , which according to pliny was . miles . yet gassendus allows it but two miles in height ; but isaac vossius in a learned discourse concerning the height of mountains in his notes on pomponius mela , doth not allow above . or . furlongs at most to the height of mount athos . caucasus by ricciolus is said to be . miles in height : gassendus allowing it to be higher then athos or olympus , yet conceives it not above three or four miles at most ; but vossius will not yeild it above two miles perpendicular , for which he gives this very good reason ; polybius affirms there is no mountain in greece which may not be ascended in a dayes time , and makes the highest mountain there not to exceed ten furlongs ; which saith vossius , it is scarce possible for any one to reach unless he be a mountainer born ; any other will scarce be able to ascend above six furlongs perpendicular ; for in the ascent of a mountain every pace doth reach but to an hand breadth perpendicular ; but if we do allow eight furlongs to a dayes ascent , yet thereby it will appear that the highest mountains in the world are not above twenty four furlongs in height , since they may be ascended in three dayes time : and it is affirmed of the top of mount caucasus , that it may be ascended in less then the compass of three dayes , and therefore cannot be much above two miles in height . which may be the easier believed of any other mountain , when that which is reputed the highest of the world , viz. the pike of teneriffe which the inhabitants call pica de terraria , may be ascended in that compass of time , viz. three dayes : for in the months of iuly and august ( which are the only months in which men can ascend it , because all other times of the year snow lyes upon it , although neither in the isle of teneriffe nor any other of the canary islands there be snow ever seen ) the inhabitants then ascend to the top of it in three dayes time , which top of it is not pyramidal but plain , from whence they gather some sulphureous stones which are carryed in great quantities into spain . so that according to the proportion of eight furlongs to a dayes journey , this pike of teneriffe will not exceed the height of a german mile perpendicular , as varenius confesseth , then which he thinks likewise , that no mountain in the world is higher . for what pliny speaks of the alpes being fifty miles in height , must be understood not perpendicular , but in regard of the obliquity of the ascent of it ; so that he might account so much from the foot of the alpes to the top of them , and yet the alpes in a perpendicular line not come near the height of a german mile . if then the highest mountains do not exceed much above three miles in height ( for the spaniards themselves affirm , that those lofty mountains of peru , in comparison of which they say the alpes are but like cottages , may be ascended in four dayes compass ) we see from hence then far greater probability , how the waters in the time of the general flood might overtop the highest mountains . especially if it be made evident that there is so great an abysse of subterraneous waters , that the breaking open of the fountains of it may so much encrease the inundation arising from the clouds , and from the breaking in of the ocean upon the main land. and that there is such a mass of waters in the body of the earth is evident from the origine of fountains ; for the opinion of aristotle imputing them to the condensation of aire in the caverns of the earth , and that of other philosophers ascribing them to the fall of rain-water received into such cisterns in the earth which are capable of receiving it , are both equally unsatisfactory , unless we suppose a mass of waters in the bowels of the earth , which may be as the common stock to supply those fountains with . for it is very hard , conceiving how meer aire should be so far condensed , as to cause not only such a number of fountains , but so great a quantity of water as runs into the sea by those rivers which come from them , ( as the river volga is supposed to empty so much water in a years time into the caspian sea , as might suffi●e to cover the whole earth ) by which likewise it is most eviden● that there must be some subterranean passages in the sea , or else of necessity , by that abundance of water which continually runs into it from the rivers , it would overflow and drown the world . and from this multitude of waters which comes from fountains , it is likewise evident , that the origine of fountains cannot be meerly from such water which falls from the clouds , which would never suffice to maintain so full and uninterrupted a stream as many fountains have : especially if that be true which some assert , that rain-water doth never moisten the earth above ten foot deep , for of far greater profundity many fountains are . and besides the rain-water runs most upon the surface of the earth , and so doth rather swell the rivers which thereby run with greater force in their passage to the ocean , and doth not lodge it self presently in the earth , especially if it descends in a greater quantity which alone is able to fill such cisterns supposed to be in the earth , especially in mountains , which may keep a stream continually running . although therefore we may acknowledge that the fall of rain may much conduce to the overflowing and continuance of fountains , as is evident by the greater force of springs after continued rains , and by the decay of many of them in hot and dry weather ( which yet i had rather impute to the suns exhaling by his continued heat those moist vapours in the earth , which should continually supply the springs , then meerly to the want of rain ) and by the rise of most great rivers from such fountains which came from the foot of mountains ; where the ground is supposed to be of so hard and consistent a substance , as stone , or chalke , or something of like nature which might help to the conservation of water there , from whence it after ran in streams to the ocean ( which was the great argument of the famous peireskius for this opinion ) although i say , these things may argue thus far , that rain-water doth much conduce to the preservation of springs , yet it cannot give a sufficient account of the origine of them : which with the greatest reason and probability is imputed to those subterraneous waters which pass up and down through the bowels of the earth . some have fancyed the earth to be as one great animal , whose subterraneous passage's were like veins in the body which received water out of the sea , as the veins do blood out of the liver ; and that there are some kind of hot vapours in the earth which supply the place of vital spirits , which are diffused up and down the body through the arteries . and that as in an animal there are some parts which upon the least prick do send forth blood , and others are more callous where the incision must be deeper before any blood appears ; so it is in the earth ; when it is opened in a right vein we find presently a spring of water ; but if we chance to hit on a wrong place , we go deep and may find none ; not that water is wanting , but we have not hit on the veins through which it runs . and thence as the blood with equal freedom and velocity ascends into the head as it runs into the legs , because it is equally dispersed into all the parts from the center of it ; so in the body of the earth it is as natural for the water to ascend into the tops of mountains , as it is to fall down into the center of the earth . and that it is no more wonder to see springs issue out of mountains , then it is to see a man bleed in the veins of his forehead when he is let blood there . so in all places of the earth the parts of it are not disposed for apertion ; for some of them are so hard and compact , that there seems to be no passage through them ( which is the most probable reason , why there is no rain neither in those places , because there is no such exsudation of those moist vapours through the surface of the earth , which may yeild matter for rain , as it is in many of the sandy places of africa , but usually mountainous countryes have more large , and as it were temple-veins through which the moist vapours have a free and open passage , and thence there are not only more frequent springs there , but clouds and rains too . ) now if this account of the origine of springs in the earth be as rational as it is ingenious and handsome ( and there is not much can be said against it , but only that then all fountains should be salt as the water is from whence they come ) then we easily understand how the earth might be overflowed in the universal deluge ; for then the fountains of the deep were broken up , or there was an universal opening of the veins of the earth , whereby all the water contained in them would presently run upon the surface of the earth , and must needs according to its proportion advance its self to a considerable height . but because the salving the difference of the water in springs from what it is in the sea is so considerable a phaenomenon in our present case , i therefore rather take this following as the most rational account of the origine of fountains . viz. that there are great cavityes in the earth , which are capable of receiving a considerable quantity of water , which continually runs into them from the sea ( which as it continually receives fresh supplyes from the rivers which empty themselves into it , so it dispatcheth away a like quantity through those spongy parts of the earth under the ocean , which are most apt to suck in and convey away the surplusage of water ) so that by this means the sea never swells by the water conveyed into it by the rivers , there being as continual a circulation in the body of the earth of the water which passeth out of the ocean into the subterraneous cavernes , and from thence to the mountains , and thence into the sea again ; as there is a circulation of blood in mans body from the heart by the arteryes into the exteriour parts , and returning back again by the veins into the heart . according to which we may imagine such a place in the heart of the earth like plato's barathrum , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as plato in his phaedrus describes it out of homer , a long and deep subterraneous cavity . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . into which cavity all the rivers at last flow , and from which they again disperse themselves abroad . now this cavity of the earth thus fill'd with water supplyes the place of the heart in the body of the earth , from which all those several aquaeducts which are in the earth have their continual supply ; but that which makes those passages of water which we call springs and fountains properly , i suppose , is thus generated ; from those cavityes fill'd with water in the earth by reason of the hot streams which are in the body of the earth , there are continually rising some vapours or little particles of water , which are disjoyned from each other by the heat , by reason of which they attain a greater celerity of motion , and so pass through the inner pores of the earth till they come near the superficies of it . which when they have approached to , they are beat back again by the cold which environs the surface of the earth , or at least are so arrested by the cold and condensed by it , that they lose the form of vapours and become perfect water again . which water being now more gross , then while it was a meer vapour , cannot descend again through the same pores through which it ascended before , because these are not now capable of receiving it : and therefore it seeks out some wider passages near the surface of the earth , by which means it moves in an oblique manner , and is ready to embrace any other vapours which are arrested in the same manner ; now when these are grown to a considerable body in the surface of a mountain , or a plain , and find a vent fit for them , there appears a proper fountain whose streams are still maintained by the same condensation of vapours , which when they are once come abroad are in continual motion whereby rivers are made , which are still finding a passage through the declivity of the surface of the earth , whereby they may return to the ocean again . now according to this account , that grand phaenomenon of the freshness of fountain water when the water of the sea is salt , whence it originally comes , is sufficiently resolved . for meer transcolation may by degrees take away that which the chymists call the fixed salt ; and for the volatile salt of it ( which being a more spirituous thing , is not removable by distillation , and so neither can it be by transcolation ) yet such an evaporation as that mentioned , may serve to do it , because it is evident that fresh water will fall from the clouds which hath risen from those vapours which have come out of the sea ; and besides these vapours or small particles of water in their passage through the earth ( especially when they come near the surface of it ) do incorporate with other sweet vapours as those which come from rain and others , by which means they insensibly lose their former acidity and sharpness . but those fountains which do retain their former saltness , as there are many such in the world , may very probably ●● supposed not to have come from these vapours condensed , but to be a kind of a breaking of vein in which the salt water was conveyed up and down the body of the earth . now then considering that mass of waters and multitude of vapours arising thence which are in the earth , how easie is it for us to understand what the breaking open the fountains of the deep means in scripture , and how by that means together with the falling down of the cataracts of the clouds , and the letting loose of the ocean , the whole earth might be overspread with an universal deluge . the possibility of which was the thing to be shewed . the next thing we come to concerning the flood , is , the capacity of the ark for receiving the several animals which were to propagate the world afterwards . concerning which , two things are necessary to be understood , what the measure of the ark was , and what the number of animals contained in it . the measure of the ark must be determined by the proportion of the cubit , which there is no reason at all to suppose either with origen and others to have been the geometrical cubit , which contains six ordinary cubits or nine feet , both because we find no mention at all of any such cubit in scripture , and because the fabrick of the ark would have been of too vast a proportion ; neither yet is it probable , which sir w. rawlegh supposeth , that this cubit must be of a proportion as much exceeding ours as the stature of a gyant doth ours , both because there is no certain evidence , either from scripture or reason , that the proportion of men then did generally exceed what is now ; and besides this tends not in the least to make the thing more plain . for according to that proportion , we must then have imagined beasts to have been as well as men ; for the horse must have been proportionably as great to have been serviceable to men of that stature , and so the animals would have taken up as much more room in the ark as the cubit is supposed to be bigger . i suppose then that moses speaks of the cubit most in use in his own time , ( for he writ so that they for whose use he writ might be easily able to understand him ) now this cubit by the consent of writers contained a foot and a half in length ; according to which proportion , supposing the ark by moses his description to have . cubits in length , . in breadth , and . in height , the whole capacity of the ark according to the computation of ioh. bute● comes to . solid cubits . for the length of . cubts being multiplyed into the breadth of . cubits , and the product by the height of . cubits makes the whole concavity . which matthaeus hostus reducing to the german measure , makes the longitude of the ark to be . perches , . cubits , . fingers ; the latitude perches , . cubits , and . fingers ; the altitude perches , . cubit , . fingers ; allowing to every perch . roman feet . so that if we take a perch to contain . hebrew cubits , which exceeds the former . fingers , the whole capacity of the ark will be . cubical perches . and as he saith , hujusmodi sane aedificii amplitudo capacissima est , & quamlibet magno animantium numero haud dubie sufficere pot uit , the ark of so large a capacity might easily contain the several kinds of animals in it . which will be easily understood , if according to our former supposition , only the animals of the inhabited part of the world were preserved in the ark ; but admitting that all kinds of animals were there , there would be room enough for them and for provision for them . for which sir w. rawlegh gives a prudent caution , that men ought not to take animals of a mixt nature , as mules and hyaena's , nor such as differ in size and shape from each other , as the eat of europe and ownce of india , into the several species of animals . sir w. rawlegh following buteo reckons . or least any be omitted , a . several kinds of beasts , and undertakes to demonstrate from a triple proportion of all beasts to the ox , wolf , and sheep , that there was sufficient capacity for them in the ark. hostus allows . several kinds of animals , yet questions not the caepacity of the ark , but these things are so particularly made out by those learned authors , especially by buteo , that i shall rather refer the reader for further satisfaction to the authors themselves , then take the pains to transcribe them . i come now therefore to the evidence of the truth and certainty of this universal deluge , of which we have most clear and concurring testimonies of most ancient nations of the world . for which purpose grotius and others have at large produced the testimony of berosus the chaldean out of iosephus , concerning the flood and the ark in which noah was preserved , of abydenus out of cyrill and eusebius concerning xisuthrus , or noahs sending out of the birds to see if the flood were asswaged , and of alexander polyhistor concerning the preservation of animals in the ark , of plutarch concerning the sending out of the dove , of lucian de d●a syria concerning the whole story , and so of molon and nicolaus damascenus . besides it is manifested by others , how among the chaldeans the memory of noah was preserved under the fable of oannes , which had par● of a fish and part of a man , as is evident from the fragments of apollodorus , abydenus , and alexander polyhistor preserved in eusebius his greek chronica ; among the chineses under the name of puoncuus , who by them is said to have escaped alone with his family out of the universal deluge , saith isaac vossius , who supposeth pu or pi to be only a prefix to the name , and so that puoncuus is the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . martinius tells us , de diluvio mul●a est apud sinicos scriptores mentio , that the ancient writers of the sinick history speak much of the flood . iohannes de lact tells out of lescharbotus how constant the tradition of the flood is among the indians , both in new france , peru , and other parts . this being therefore so fully attested by the evident and apparent consent of so many writers and historians , which did not own the authority of the scriptures , i shall suppose this sufficiently proved , and proceed to the main thing which concerns the origine of nations , which is , the certainty of the propagation of mankind from the posterity of noah . of which there is this strong and convincing evidence , that in all that account which the scripture gives of the propagation of nations from the sons of noah , there is some remainder in the history of that nation to justifie the reason of the imposition of the name from the names of the nations themselves , which have preserved the original name of their founder in their own , as the medes from madai , the thracians from thiras , the ionians from iavan , the sidonians from sidon , the philistins from pelisthim , ●the arcaeans , aradians , elymaeans , assyrians , lydians , from arki , arrad , elam , assur and lud , and many others produced by grotius , montanus , iunius , and especially bochartus , who with admirable industry and learning hath cleared all this part of sacred history , which concerns the reason of the imposition of the names of the people which were propagated from the posterity of noah , and given a full & satisfactory account of the several places where the posterity of noah seated themselves after the deluge . in stead of that therefore , i shall consider the pretences which can be brought against it , which are chiefly these three . . that the chaldean empire seems to have greater antiquity then can be attributed to it by the history of moses . . that the most learned heathen nations pretend to be self-originated , and that they came not from any other country . . that no certain account is given from whence america should be peopled . . the history of the assyrian empire seems inconsistent with the propagation of the world from the sons of noah ; for the reign of ninus and semiramis is placed by many chronologers within the first century after the flood , which seems a manifest inconsistency with the propagation of mankind from the sons of noah ; for it seems utterly impossible that the foundations of so great an empire should be laid in so small a compass of time by the posterity of three persons ; and besides ninus and semiramis were not the first who began the assyrian empire ; for belus not only raigned fifty five years before ninus , but according to the chaldean antiquities from evechous , who they say first reigned among them , are reckoned . years . but admit that the beginning of the assyrian empire be placed so low as petavius and other chronologers would have it , viz. in the year after the flood , . yet the difficulty is only somewhat abated , but not removed ; for it seems yet unconceivable that from three persons in . years , such multitudes should spring , as to make so large an empire as that of ninus , and that within an hundred years after the flood there should be such vast multitudes for the building the tower of babel and dispersion up and down the world , so that according to the hebrew computation , in the compass of . years , viz. about abrahams time , the world was so fully peopled , that we read of several kings encountering one another , by which it is evident the world had been peopled sometime before , or else there could not have been such potent kings as some of them were at that time . this being the grand difficulty , to it i answer these things . . there is no such certainty of the beginning of the assyrian empire , as for the sake of that , to question the truth of the propagation of the world by the sons of noah . i havealready largely manifested the want of credibility in the chronology of the ancient chaldeans , and that we have no certain grounds to rely upon in reference to it . especially as to those seven first babylonian kings , which are cited out of africanus by eusebius , and georgius syncellus , viz. evechous , chomasbolus , porus , nechubes , abius , oniballus , chinzirus , who are said to reign . years , two moneths ; and alike fabulous , i suppose , is the other dynasty of six arabian kings , whose empire is said to have stood . years to the time of belus , who expelled the arabians and took the power to himself ; and it is much more agreeable to reason to reject these two dynastyes , which have no record of them left in any history of the assyrian empire , but only in berosus , whose authority in this case hath been discussed already , then to follow our late excellent primate of armagh , who punctually sets down the reign of the kings of these two dynastyes , but cuts off at least eight ages in the time of the assyrian empire from ninus to sardanapalus , which time he confines to . years , and placeth ninus in the . year of the world , according to the hebrew computation , and so to live in the time of the iudges , and be cotemporary with deborah : which he builds only on a place in herodotus , which relates not to the time between ninias and sardanapalus , but to the time of the defection of the mèdes from the assyrian empire , as isaac vossius hath already shewed . we cannot then finde any certainty in the beginning of the assyrian empire , which may give us cause to question the propagation of the world from the posterity of noah . . we have reason to think that there was a more then ordinary multiplication of the world from the sons of noah after the flood . for as god had before punished the world by destroying mankind in it by an extraordinary manner ; so after the flood , he doth in a particular manner bless noah and his sons , and said unto them , be fruitfull and multiply , and replenish the earth , which may well be thought to have then had an extraordinary effect . severall ways have been attempted by learned men to make appear , to what a vast number the posterity of noah would increase in the space of two of three hundred years after the flood . petavius supposeth that the posterity of noah might beget children at seventeen , and that each of noahs sons might have eight children in the eighth year after the flood , and that every one of these eight might beget eight more ; by this means in only one family as of iaph●t in the year after the flood . he makes a diagramme , consisting of almost an innumerable company of men . iohannes temporarius , as our most learned primate tels us , takes this way , that all of the posterity of noah when they attained twenty years of age had every year twins , on which supposition by arithmetical progression , he undertakes to make it appear , that in the . year after the flood , there would be of males and females , but taking away the one half , because of the groundless supposition of twins , yet then in that time there would be . males besides females . others suppose that each of the sons of noah had ten sons , and by that proportion , in few generations , it would amount to many thousands within a century . others insist on the parallel between the multiplication of the children of israel in egypt ; that if from . men in the space of . years there are procreated . how many will be born of three men in the space of an hundred years ? some have said above . but with what success in their arithmetick i shall not determine . but whether all or any of these ways be sufficient , and satisfactory , we have yet cause to believe that there was a more then ordinary multiplication in the posterity of noah after the flood . . if we embrace the account of those copies , which the septuagint followed in their version , all this difficulty is then ceased . for that account doth very much enlarge the times , and makes almost a thousand years between the flood and abraham , by which means there will be sufficient space given for the propagation of mankind , the building the tower of babel , the dispersion of nations , the founding the assyrian empire , the plantation of egypt , china , and other places , all which seem to have been in that time , and to concur with that computation , as well as iosephus doth , and the whole primitive church before hierome , which certainly ought in no case to be disregarded . the whole controversie concerning this part of the chronology of the world comes at last to this , whether it be more probable that the iews , who lived under the second temple ( who then were the trustees to whom were committed the oracles of god ) whom the lxx . followed in their version , had the true reading , or the talmudick iews after their dispersion and banishment from their country , when they were discarded by god himself from being his people , when he broke up house among them at the destruction of ierusalem and the temple . but if the reader desire further satisfaction concerning this difference of the chronology of the lxx . from that of the present hebrew copyes , he may consult the learned dissertation of the late learned bishop of chester upon the lxx . and the later discourses of isaac vossius on this subject . seting a side then the controversie between the present hebrew copyes and the lxx . in point of integrity and incorruption which i meddle not with , i cannot but subscribe to the judgement of our judicious historian , sir w. rawleigh : that if we look over all , and do not hastily satisfie our understanding with the first things offered , and thereby being satiated do slothfully and drowsily sit down , we shall find it more agreeable rather to follow the reckoning of the lxx . who according to some editions make it above . years between the flood and abrahams birth , then to take away any part of those . years given . for if we advisedly consider the state and ceuntenance of the world such as it was in abrahams time , yea before abraham was born , we shall find that it were very ill done of us by following opinion without the guide of reason , to pare the time over deeply between abraham and the flood ; because in cutting them too near the quick , the reputation of the whole story might perchance bleed thereby , were not the testimony of the scriptures supreme so as no objection can approach it ; and that we did not follow withall this precept of st. austin , that wheresoever any one place in the scriptures may be conceived disagreeing to the whole , the same is by ignorance of misinterpretation understood . for in abrahams time all the then known parts of the world were peopled : all regions and countryes had their kings . aegypt had many magnificent cities , and so had palestine and all bordering countryes ; yea all that part of the world be sides as far as india : and those not built with sticks , but of hewn stones , and defended with walls and rampiers , which magnificence needed a parent of more antiquity then those other men have supposed . and therefore where the scriptures are plainest and best agreeing with reason and nature , to what end should we labour to beget doubts and scruples , or draw all things into wonders and marvails ? giving also strength thereby to common cavillers , and to those mens apish brains , who only bend their wits to find impossibilities and monsters in the story of the world and mankind . thus far that excellent historian , whose words deserve consideration . thus much for the first objection . the second is , from the great pretence of several nations that they were self-originated , or came not from any other place . this was the pretence of the aegyptians , graecians , ancient inhabitants of italy , and others . but how little reason we have to give credit to these pretences , will appear on these accounts . . the impossibility in nature that mankind should be produced in such a way as they imagined , which we have manifested already in our discourse of the origine of the universe . . that the nations which pretended this , were never able to give sufficient evidence of it to any other nation which demanded it ; which is manifest : by their want of any certain records of their ancient times , which is fully proved in our discourse in the first book of the want of credibility in heathen histories . . the only probable reason , which induced these nations to make themselves aborigines , was , because they supposed themselves to be the first inhabitants of the countryes they lived in , which although i may allow to the aegyptians and some other ancient nations , yet i cannot do it to the hellens or greeks , who most vainly and arrogantly pretended to it . which because it may give more light into the greatest antiquities of greece and some other nations then hath been yet discovered or taken notice of , and because it may further tend to clear the truth of the scriptures as to the origine of nations , i shall more particularly enquire into the first plantation of greece . that it was first inhabited by some of noahs posterity , is out of question with all those who prefer the most ancient and undoubted records of scripture before the fabulous impostures of mens brains . but by whose immediate posterity the country of greece was first inhabited , is not yet so clear as it hath been generally presumed to be , by most who had rather follow the dictates of others then spend time in such enquiries themselves : which yet certainly are so far from being unworthy mens labour and industry , that nothing tends more clearly to advance the truth of scripture-history , then the reconciling the antiquities of the elder nations to what we find delivered of the plantation of the world from the posterity of noah . as to this particular therefore of the first plantation of greece , i shall first propound the opinion generally embraced among learned men , and then shew how far it is defective , and what other more true account may be given of it . it is evident from moses , gen. . . that the posterity of iaphet took possession of the isles of the gentiles , i. e. according to the hebrew idiome , not only such as are properly so calld , but all those countries which lay much upon the sea , being at any distance from palestine , especially such as lay between the ocean and mediterranean sea ; and so both greece and italy come under the name of the isles of the gentiles . among the sons of iaphet none is conceived so probable to have first peopled greece , as he whose name was preserved among the inhabitants of greece with very little alteration . and so as the medes from madai , the assyrians from assur , the thracians from thiras , by the like analogy the ionians from iavan . from which it is observable that although among the greeks themselves , the ionians were but as one division of that people which inhabited greece , yet other nations comprehended all under the name of ionians . for which we have sufficient evidence from hesychius and the scholiast on aristophanes . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith hesychius ; and more to this purpose the scholiast speaks . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the insertion of the aeolick digamma , ( which is alwayes done when two vowels meet ) is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. iavones , and stephanus byhantius tells us , that from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 comes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so homer , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and dionysius periegetes reckons up 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as one of the rivers of arcadia , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and which much confirms this opinion , the hebrew word for iavan before the points added by the masorites , viz. 〈◊〉 bears a perfect analogy with the greck 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in scripture is taken for greece ; and so dan. . . alexander is calld 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which the lxx . render 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and ioel . . you have sold my sons 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the sons of iavan , i. e. to the greeks as it is generally understood . but as iavan cannot be supposed to have come into these parts without his family , so it is generally presumed that there are no obscure footsteps left of iavans eldest son , elisha's seating himself in greece . for from him iosephus derives the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , with whom the jerusalem paraphrast concurs . montanus from thence derives the name elis , from whence he supposeth the greeks are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . bochartus finds the clearest remainders of elisha in elis the same with pelopponesus , one part of which by homer is called alisium ; thence ezek. . . we read of the purple and searlet from the isles of elisha , which makes it most probable to be that part of greece w●●ch lay upon the jonian sea , where the best purple next to the tyrian was found , as the learned bochartus hath demonstrated from several authors . this is now the substance of the generally received account concerning the plantation of greece from the posterity of noah . which if it be taken as to that people which did at length possess greece , i see no reason to disapprove it ; but if it be extended to the first plantation of greece , i see as little to embrace it . that we may therefore judge more freely of the first inhabitants of greece , it is requisite we take an account of it from those who prosess themselves most versed in their own antiquities , who may in a matter of this nature which is attested by the common consent of the most learned antiquari●s of greece , be the more credited , in that what they thus deliver , may be supposed to come from an ancient and undoubted tradition . it is evident therefore , from the judgement of the most learned and judicious even of the greeks themselves , that greece was first inhabited by a people by them called barbarous , i. e. a people different from them in language and manners . so ephorus whom poly●ius commends as the best writer of the greek antiquities , saith that greece was inhabited by a barbarous people before the hell●ns came into it . and 〈◊〉 mil●sius cited by str●o concerning pelo●ponesus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which strabo himself not only believes of pelopponesus but of all greece that it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , anci●ntly a plantation of barbarians ; the same is affirmed by aristotle writing of the commonwealth of the tegeates concerning arcadia , that before its being possessed by the arcadians i● was inhabited by a barbarous people , who because they were expulsed their country , before moon rising , the arcadians called themselves 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . whether that be the ground of that vain-glorious boast ( of which many reasons are given by learned men ) i here dispute not ; it is sufficient that we find the grecians were not the first who peopled any of these several places ; which is likewise attested by herodotus , thucydides and others , whose testimonies we shall afterwards produce . it being then evident that the grecians were not the first who inhabited that country after from them called greece , it follows to be inquired what this barbarous people was and from whence they came . strabo hath given us in a large catalogue of the names of many of them , as the dryopes , caucones , leleges , besides the aones , tembices , hyantes and many others ; but these seem not to have been that ancient people , but rather some latter castlings of the carians , who as thucydides tells us , did very often make inroads upon the quarters of greece . that people which had the largest spread and greatest antiquity , was the pelasgi : thence pelopponesus was anciently called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . stephanus byzantius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : and apollodorus saith , that the pelopponesians were anciently called pelasgi ; and euripides , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and elsewhere , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . these pelasgi were not only in pelopponesus , but in attica too , as appears by strabo , where he saith the nation of the pelasgi did inhabit , and by the athenians ( that is after their mixture ) they were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 storks 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for their frequent removals from place to place : and pausanias mentions their being under the acronoli at athens : that they were in thessaly , is evident from hesy●hius . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; arcadia seems to have th● first or chief place of their residence ; for the arcadians who were accounted 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , do vindicate the founder of this nation , whom they call pelasgus to themselves , and say he was an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 among them , that is , the fi●st who came into that country ; for all those whose original they knew not they called them terrae filios , and genuinos terrae . pausanias rightly conjectures that he was the first man among them , not as though he was alone , but because the chief ruler and commander among them , and that brought them into the country ; but though they might fix themselves about arcadia , it is evident they spread further ; for menecrates eleates in his book of the founders of cities , affirms that all the sea coasts of greece called ionica beginning from mycale , were first inhabited by the pelasgi ; nay we find them yet much higher up in epirus , who were as strabo tells us , the first founders of the famous oracle of dodona ; for so ephorus in him saith it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and that these were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : thence the poet , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and hesiod , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . strabo further makes it evident , that they were a barbarous people which lived about dodona , from the description homer gives of them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . which philostratus best interprets when he saith they were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , such that thought the gods were best pleased with their simplicity and severity of life , and therein far different from the grecian humour . suidas in thessalicis ( cited likewise by strabo ) saith that the temple of dodona was removed from scotusa in pelasgia in thessaly , which is confirmed by herodotus in euterpe , where he largely speaks of the temple and oracle at dodona . these pelasgi confined not themselves to greece neither , but were dispersed into the neighbour islands , as chios , creet , lesbos , lemnos , imbro , samos , as will appear afterwards ; and at last came into italy , as is well known , and are thought to be the same with tyrrhenians , and by some conceived to be the first founders of rome . we see what a large spread the pelasgi had over greece , which was divided after the hellens began to appear , into 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as herodotus witnesseth ; and so these two appear to be a very different people from one another , and not the same under different names as is commonly thought . which sufficiently appears from their language , which was quite different from one another . so herodotus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they used a barbarous language : i. e. a language not understood by the hellens ; who at first , had their chief residence in thessaly , from whence by degrees they came forwards into greece , as thucydides shews . for although the name of hellens at last spread its self over all the people of greece , yet it was at first peculiar to that part of thessaly called pthiotis , and thence homer calls them properly hellens which followed achilles from thence ; and it appears by homer that there was a city there called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which as stephanus de urbibus tells us was there built by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , although he will not have him to be hellen the son of deucalion , but the son of pthius , wherein he is mistaken ; for thucydides plainly shews that it was from hellen the son of deucalion that the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 came , and this hellen lived in pthiotis . but although they were first in pthiotis , yet they dayly increasing in numbers and power , by degrees they got all thessaly into their hands , of which one part was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; afterwards under dorus the son of hellen they conquered hestiaectis , that part of thessaly which lyes under the mountains ossa and olympus ; from thence they were beaten back by the cadmeans into pindus , where the greeks were first called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as herodotus tells us ; from hence they went into dryopis , and thence into pelopponesus , and there had the name dorians ; but before their coming hither , they had first secured themselves of hellens lying between thessaly and pelopponesus , and there they dispossest the pelasgi in all the attickregion ; who were now forced to submit or to fly ; they who submitted , as most of them did , were incorporated into the greeks , and became one people with them , and so by degrees lost that former language which was peculiar to themselves and wholly distinct from the greek tongue . that the hellens did thus gradually come into pelopponesus , is evident from the names of people and placts common to thessaly and pelopponesus which came from hence , that though the greeks left the cities behind them , yet they carryed most of the names along with them . thus the achaei , ionians , and aeolians , and dorians in pelopponesus came from those of the same names in thessaly ; and so likewise the names of these following regions and cities were common to both , as ellopia , estiaea , eretria , and oropos , graia , larissa , psophis , iton , occalia and very many others salmasius seems to be of opinion , that the pelasgi never used any language distinct from the hellens ; but besides that it is directly contrary to the testimony of herodotus , the arguments he produeeth for it are very weak . the first is because the pelasgi that went into italy , did use the greek tongue , from their calling agylla caere , from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a word pronounced from one on the walls ; and because the arcades used only the greek language in the aeolian dialect , which evander carryed with him into italy , and from which most of the old roman language was derived . but doth not herodotus expresly say , that after the mixture between the greeks and pelasgi these by degrees lost their own proper language and made use of the common greek tongue ? yet afterwards too it is evident from herodotus in some places , as at crotona , they did use a language different from the greek . his other argument is , that the names of the eldest persons mentioned were originally greek ; but this is expresly denyed by strabo who makes the contrary one of his strongest arguments , that the barbarians did anciently inhabit greece ; and instanceth in cecrops , codrus , aeoius , cothus , drymas , crimanus . thus we have abundantly proved against the common opinion , that greece was not first peopled by the hellens , or the posterity of elisa , although these did afterwards come to the full possession of greece . it remains that we shew whence these pelasgi came , and of whose posterity they were , and what the language was which was used by them . he that gave the name to this people according to the grecian fables , was one pelasgus , which none will wonder at among them , whose constant custom it was , ( partly by reason of their ignorance of the true account of their names , and partly by their pride that they might not seem ignorant of any thing ) when they meet with any names of people to find out some person near it who was the founder of them . thus artica from actaeus , it being anciently called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and cranae from cranaus , aegialea from aegialeus , mauritania from maurus , s●ythia from one s●ythes , galataea from galates , and thus in multitudes of other names . but from the name pelasgi we may probably find out the true founder of the people , allowing that variation which is usually caused through the greeks melting the harsher words of the eastern languages into a sound fit ●or their more delicate palats , as is evident in the comparing the names of the prophets in ebrew , with what they are in the greek version . thus the pelasgi may with great probability be derived from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pheleg ; for which we have the concurrent testimony of two learned persons , grotius and salmasius , who are contented to mention it , without bringing much evidence of reason for it . what they only touch at , we shall endeavour to make out more at large ; which we shall do by removing the great presumptions against it , and laying down the probabilities for it . the great presumptions lying against it are ; for that the isles of the nations tell to the posterity of iapheth , and that phaleg lived with eber in chaldea . for the first , it must be acknowledged that the greatest part of the countries lying upon the ocean and mediterrancan , were in the time when moses wrote so inhabited ; not that the habitations of the sons of noah had their bounds and limits set them either by god or noah , but that the posterity of iaphet did chiefly address themselves to those parts which lay towards europe ; but yet not so , as to exclude any of the posterity of sem , if their necessities for further room made it necessary for them to seek for habitations further abroad . for we can have no reason to think , that because the chief of sems posterity did live together , therefore none of them went further off , which necessity would put them upon because of their great increase ; for we read of phaleg and others , that besides those in a direct line to abraham ( whose genealogy it was moses his great design to recount ) they begat many other sons and daughters , which would make it necessary for them , to seek their habitations further abroad . and that phaleg and ragan did so , we have the express testimony of epiphanius , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . that from the age of therah and then●e forward ph●leg and ragau diverted toward the clime of europe , to part of scythia , and were joyned with those nations from whi●● the thracians arose . several things make this not so improbable as some have imagined it to be ; for first , it is the constant acknowledgement of all sober inquirers into the original of the greeks , that greece was first peopled from scythia , and indeed almost all the n●tions in europe have come out of that country : besides there is evidence of it , even in the gr●cian fables ; for prometheus ( from whom the greeks derived themselves ) is fan●yed by them to lie bound in mount cancasus , which must be suppos●d to be the country from whence he came . again it is evident already that the hellens came not into greece before it was peopled by the pelasgi , and that these had different language and customs from one another ; now then in all probability , although the posterity of elisa might come first down from scythia into those parts and seat themselves in macedonia and th●ssaly , where they had in probability more then room enough at first and a country to their desire ; they might be willing to permit the posterity of phaleg to pass on further ; for in those first plantations we cannot otherwise conceive , but that the last comers must be the furthest goers ; unless they had strength enough to drive the former inhabitants out of their seats whereof they were already possessed , as the scythians did afterwards , and so the h●llens ; so then the posterity of phaleg being forced to quit their own country because of the multitude of inhabitants , must be supposed to take that course , where in probability they might find an empty seat fit for them to dwell in ; thence they come towards europe ; for they saw how the posterity of sem did spread it self eastward already , and c ham southward , and coming to part of , that vast country of soythia , which was both already taken up and not so convenient an habitation for them , they draw downwards towards thracia , and there the po●●erity of thiras from whom the thracians came had already possessed themselves ; passing further into thessaly , they find that already planted by some of the posterity of elisa , but as yet but scant and thin of inhabitants ; therefore they disperse themselves up and down through some part of epirus , most part of ellas , and some pass into peloppon●sus , where they six themselves chiefly upon arcadia , and thence spread up and down by degrees towards the sea-side ; for we cannot but think that the maritime parts were the last peopled , partly for fear of another d●luge , partly for want of conveniency of navigation most of their travels being by land ; and partly when navigation grew more in use for fear of pirates , who drove a great trade upon the coasts of greece in elder times , as is most evident from thucydides in the beginning of his history . thus we have a reasonable account given of the p●lasgi their first coming into greece , and how by degrees the hellens came to possess their country , and what a fair pretence the arcadians had to boast of the greatest antiquity , their country being probably first peopled by the pelasgi of any part of the whole chersonese , and the seat of the leader of the whole company whom they call pelasgus and the scriptures phaleg . having thus far cleared the antiquities of grecce as to the first planters of it , whom we have evidenced to have been the pelasgi , and these derived from peleg , it will be no great difficulty to resolve what language they brought along with them , which must be supposed to be the same with that used in the family from whence peleg or phaleg came , as to the substance of it , although it might admit as great variation of dialact from it as the chaldee or syriack doth . but this i will not only suppose , but offer these probabilities for the proof of it , the first is , the agreement of the ancient greek language with the hebrew in many of its primitive words ; and here we have a most rational and probable account given of it ; which is the greeks mixing with the pelasgi , and both coming to be one people , they must needs retain many of the old words used by the pelasgi in their greek language ; which are evidently of an eastern extraction , the ground of which cannot with such probability be fetched from cadmus and the phoenicians , because it is not so easie admission of a forraign language after the perfection of their own , unless by long tract of time , or great numbers overrunning the former people , neither of which can be so truly affirmed of cadmus and his company ; for they were soon driven out of greece , he himself ending his dayes in illyricum ; neither was their spread so large as that of the pelasgi , who were before possessors of the countrey ; and it is continually seen how impossible it is for any conquerors , as the greeks were , to bring their own language so into a place , where some of the former people are suffered to live , and not to retain many of their old words among them , and so make the language mixt of both , as it is in all nations conquerd by the romans ; the roman not being purely spoken by any , but corrupted with a mixture of the sormer language in use among them . the second argument is from the different pronunciation and dialects in use in the greek language ; of which no account so likely can be given , as the mixture with different language . this is most evident in the dorick dialect ; for the dorians inhabiting probably where most of the pelasgi had been , their pronunciation and dialect comes the nearest to the eastern of any of the greeks : for in the dorick dialect the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; or broad pronunciation , is most taken notice of : so he in theocritus upbraids the dorians , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they speake every thing very broad ; which answers to the pronunciation of the eastern languages ; besides , the dorick dialect delights much in adding a to the end of words , which besides that it is the custom of eastern tongues , especially the syriack , it doth much widen the pronunciation . the third argument is from the remainders of the eastern tongues in those places , especially where the pelasgi had been . the pelasgi are much taken notice of for their frequent removes and travelling from one place to another ; which i suppose was chiefly after the hellens had conquerd the countrey where they dwelt , then they were forced to go seek better habitations abroad ; thence strabo calls th● nation of the pelasgi 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : and elsewhere that they were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they went up and down to great part of europe ; but we may suppose them to have made their first and chief resort to the neighbour islands to greece ; where we shall see what evidence they left of their language there . the first island we meet with them in , is crecte ; so strabo speaking of them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; that a colony of them lived in creete , for which he vouchsafeth homers authority : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . it is evident then that the pelasgi were in creete . now most of the cretan words are of an eastern extraction , if we believe the learned bochartus , who hath promised a discourse on that subject ; besides creete we find the p●lasgi in chios , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith strabo , the inhabitants of chios say that the pelasgi of thessaly were their first inhabitants ; and here the forenamed learned person hath derived the name chios , the mountain pelinaeus , and the wine arvisium , all from the eastern languages . the next we find them in , is lesbos , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which from them was called pelasgia , saith strabo , whose name is likewise fetched out of the east . by bochartus further we find them in lemnos and imbros ; so anticlides in strabo , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; concerning whose names , see bochartus . i know that learned author makes the phoenicians the authors of all these names , from no other ground generally , but because they are of an eastern derivation ; but according to what we have laid down , we may yield to the thing it self , and upon clearer grounds ; for of some of these islands he ingenuously confesseth he can find no evidence of the phoenicians being in them phoenices in his insulis habitasse nusquam legimus ; but we find it very plain , that in those very islands the pel●sgi inhabited ; and whether account then be more probable , let the reader judge . one thing more i shall insist on , which is the original of the samothracian mysteries : that these were as to their names from the eastern languages , is now acknowledged by all learned men , the cabiri being so evidently derived from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signisies strength and power , i. e. the dii potes , so cabiri is explained by varro and tertullian , and the particular names of the several cabiri mentioned by the scholiast on apollonius , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , are very handsomly explained by that learned and excellent bochartus from the eastern languages ; only he will needs have them derived from the phoenicians , whereas herodotus expresly tells us that they were from the p●lasgi , whose words are these ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : and again , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . we see evidently by this , that the samothracians derived their mysteries from the pelasgi ; and without all question they had their names from thence , whence they derived their mysteries : and to this purpose it is further observable , that as the old hetrurians were certainly a colony of the pelasgi , upon their removal out of greece ; so vossius observs that the old hetruscan language ( ferè ● syris habet cuncta sacrorum nomina ) hath almost all the sacred appellations from the eastern tongues . for which purpo●e it is further observable , which grotius takes notice of , that the jus pontisicum romanorum was take● 〈◊〉 great part from the hetrusci , & the hetrurians had it ab h●braeis out of the eastern parts . by all which i cannot conceive but this opinion , notwithstanding its novelty , is advanced to as high a degree of probability , as any that stands on the like foundations ; and not only so , but is an excellent clue to direct us to the labyrinth of antiquities , and gives us a fair account whence the eastern tongues came to be so much used among both the ancient greeks and hetrurians . one thing more this will help us to understand far better then any salvo hath been yet used for it ; which is the affinity spoken of by ari●s king of lacedaemon , in his letters to onias , between the iewes and lacedaemonians : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : which is explained by iosephus thus : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : they had found in a book that the jewes and lacedemonians were of the same stock , from their mutual relation to abraham . vossius thinks the original of this was from those of the posterity of anak , who came into greece , and peopled sparta , and would seem to have been of the posterity of abraham ; or that they were partly of the posterity of abraham by agar or cethura , and partly of the canaanites driven out by ioshua : but how unlikely a thing is it ( supposing sparta peopled by the canaanites , which yet is not evident ) that they should give out themselves to be of that stock which they had been expelled their country by ? and for the true posterity of abraham coming thither , as we have no ground for it but the bare assertion , so we have this strong evidence against it , that all that came from abraham were cirucumcised , as the ishmaelites , hagarens , &c. which we never read of among the lacedaemonians . h. grotius differs not much from the opinion of vossius concerning the ground of this kindred between the iewes and spartans : for in his notes on that place in the maccabees , where it is spoken of , he gives this account of it . the dorians , of whom the spartans were a part , came from the pelasgi ; the language of the pelasgi was different from that of the greeks , as appears by herodotus in his clio : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . now the pelasgi ( saith he ) are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dispersi , a scatterd nation ; thence he supposeth these pelasgi , or banished people , to have come from the confines of arabia and syria , in which the posterity of abraham and cethura had placed themselves . but . it is uncertain whether the posterity of abraham by keturah were placed so near canaan or no. i know iunius endeavours to find the seat of all the sons of cethurab in arabia ; but mercer gives several not improbable reasons why he conceives them placed not in the east of canaan , but in the eastern parts of the world . . we have no evidence at all of any remove of these sons of abraham by ceturah out of the parts of arabia , supposing them placed there ; nor any reason why they should be banished thence . . that which was the badge of abrahams posterity , was never that we read of in use among the spartans , which was circumcision . indeed in much later ages then this we speak of , we read of a people among the thracians who were circumcised , whom the greeks themselves judged to be iewes . so aristophanes brings the odomantes in . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( saith the scholiast ) i. e. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . whereby it is plain that circumcision was in use among the thracians ; for these odomantes were ( saith the scholiast ) a people of thrace . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . it seems it was a tradition among them that they were iewes . if so , it seems most probable that they were some of the ten tribes , who were placed about colchis , and the adjacent places : for herodotus in euterpe saith , that the syrians that lived about the rivers thermodon and parthenius , learned circumcision from the colchi , of whom he saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . only the colchi , and aegyptians , and ae●hiopians had originally the custome of circumcision . or else these o●omantes might be some of the dispersed iewes in armenia , where strabo mentions a region called odomantis , and so they retained the name of the place from whence they came , after their removal into thrace . but what ever these odomantes were , they were far enough from the spartans , who never were thus suspected of iudaism , nor laught at for circumcision . so that this opinion of grotius on that account seems not very probable . bochartus , who hath been so happy in many other conjectures , yet here gives out , unless it may depend upon the testimony of claudius iolaus in stephanus bizantius , who fabulously derives the iews from one iudaeus sparton , who went from thebes along with bacchus into the wars ; which sparton they might confound with another sparton the son of phoroneus , the founder of sparta ; which yet is rejected as a fable by pausanias in laconi●is . surely the lacedaemonians were very ambitious of kindred with the iewes , that would claim it upon such grounds as these , especially at such a time when the people of the iewes were undet distress , and their kindred might be like to cost them so dear : and if they had never such a mind to have claimed kindred with the iewes , they would certainly have done it upon a more plausible testimony then the fable of one claudius iolaus , that had neither sense nor r●ason in it ; and yet supposing his fable true , it had been nothing to the purpose , without the linking another f●ble to it , which was so gross , that even the greeks themselves were ashamed of it , who were always the most daring forgers of fables in the world . but let us see further what the divine ( as some have loved to call him ) ios. scaliger saith to it : all that he saith , is only a wonder or two at it : quid mag is mirum quàm iacedaemonios ab abraham prognatos ●sse , &c. and a refutation of an absurd opinion , that oebalus the father of tyndareus , and grandfather of castor , pollux , and helen● , was the same with ebal , mentiond gen. . . which there can be no reason for , since ebal was the son of ioctan , and so of another race from abraham ; and ioctans sons were placed eastward , but chiefly oebalus was within an hundred years before the destruction of troy ; but phaleg , unkle to ebal , died years before oebalus in a. m. . thus far then we cannot find any plausible account of this claim of kindred ; but though it be an endless task to make good all the claims of kindred in the world , especially to persons of power and authority , yet there being no visible interest or design which the spartans could have in such a claim , especially at that time with a nation generally hated and maligned by heathen idolaters , we cannot suppose but there must be some at least plausible ground for such a perswasion among them . what if we should conjecture that the spartans might find in the greck version of the pentateuch , which was much spread abroad at that time among the sons of ishma●l , one whose name makes the nearest approach to their cadmus , from whom they suppose themselves derived : for the youngest of ishma●l sons was called k●demah , gen. . which the syriack renders kedem , the very name of cadmus in the eastern tongues . but this being a light conjecture , i pass it by , and return to the subject of our discourse , which gives a plausible account of the ground of this kindred . we have already shewed that the pelasgi were the ●irst who peopled greece ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is strabo's expression of that nation , that it spread over all greece ) and withall it appears that the chief seat of the pelasgi was in arcadia , to which next adjoyns laconica ; and therefore in all probability was peopled by them ; and besides , the dorians sprang from the pelasgi , and the spartans were a part of the dorians , as appears already out of grotius ; so that what kindred the pelasgi had , was derived down to the spartans ; and we have manifested that these pelasgi were from phaleg , and the scripture tells us that phaleg was the son of eber , from whom abraham came in a direct and lineal succession . and thus the iewes coming from abraham , and the spartans by the pelasgi from phaleg , they both came out of the same stock : for so i●sephus expresseth it , not that the lacedaemonians came from abraham , but that the iewes and they were both 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , out of the same stock ; and both had relation to abraham ; the iewes as coming in a direct line , the spartans as deriving from phal●g , from whom abraham came . and thus much may now 〈◊〉 cle●r the first plantation of greece , and to shew how consonant it is to sacred scripture ; which i have taken the more pains in , because of the serviceableness of this discourse to that end , and to shew what use may be made of this kind of learning , for vindicating the honour of the sacred scriptures . the only thing remaining as to the origine of nations , is the peopling of that vast continent of america , which i cannot think we have yet sufficient in●ormation , either concerning the passages thither , especially east and north , or concerning any records the indians have among themselves absolutely to determine any thing in it . it seems most probable that the several parts of it were peopled at several times , and from several parts , especially north and east ; but to go about absolutely to determine from what nation , in what age , by what means they were first peopled , were a piece of as great confidence as ignorance , till we have more certain discoveries of it . i choose therefore rather to refer the reader to the bandyings of this controversie in the many writers about it , then to undertake any thing as to the decision of it . only in the general it appears from the remaining tradition of the flood , and many rites and customes used among them , that they had the same original with us , and that there can be no argument brought against it from themselves , since some authors tell us , that the eldest accounts and memoires they have , do not exceed . years backward ; and therefore their testimony can be of no validity in a matter of so great antiquity , as the origine of n●tions is . chap. v. of the origine of the heathen mythology . that there were some remainders of the ancient history of the world preserved in the several nations after the dispersion . how it came to be corrupted : by decay of knowledge , increase of idolatry , confusion of languages . an enquiry into the cause of that . difficulties against the common opinion that languages were confounded at babel . those difficulties cleared . of the fabulousness of poets . the particular wayes whereby the heathen mythology arose . attributing the general history of the world to their own nation . the corruption of hebraisms . alteration of names . ambiguity of sense in the oriental languages . attributing the actions of many to one person , as in jupiter , bacchus , &c. the remainders of scripture history among the heathens . the names of god , chaos , formation of man among the phaenicians . of adam among the germans ; aegyptians , cilicians . adam under saturn . cain among the phaenicians . tubalcain and jubal under vulcan and apollo . naamah under minerva . noah under saturn , janus , prometheus and bacchus . noahs three sons under jupiter , neptune , and pluto . canaan under mercury , nimrod under bacchus , magog under prometheus . of abraham and isaac among the phaenicians . jacobs service under apollo's . the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a from bethel . joseph under apis ▪ moses under bacchus . joshua under hercules . balaam under the ol● siolenus . the main particulars contained in the scriptures concerning the history of ancient times being thus far cleared , there remains only that evidence which there is of the truth of the historical part of those eldest times , in those footsteps of it which are contained in the heathen mythology . for we cannot conceive , that since we have manifested that all mankind did come from the posterity of noah , that all those passages which concerned the history of the world ▪ should be presently obliterated and extinguished among them , but some kind of tradition would be still preserved , although by degrees it would be so much altered for want of certain records to preserve it in , that it would be a hard matter to discover its original without an exact comparing it with the true history its self from whence it was first taken . for it fared with this tradition of the first ages of the world , as with a person who hath a long time travelled in forraign parts , who by the variety of climes and countries may be so far altered from what he was , that his own relations may not know him upon his return , but only by some certain marks which he hath in his body , by which they are assured , that however his complexion and visage may be altered , yet the person is the same still . thus it was in this original tradition of the world through its continual passing from one age to another , and the various humours , tempers , and designs of men , it received strange disguises and alterations as to its outward favour and complextion ; but yet there are some such certain marks remaining on it , by which we find out its true original . two things then will be the main subject of our enquiry here . . by what means the original tradition came to be altered and corrupted . . by what marks we may discern its true original , or what evidences we have of the remainders of scripture history in the heathen mythology . . concerning the means whereby the tradition by degrees came to be corrupted . there may be some more general , and others more particular . the general causes of it were . . the gradual decay of knowledge and increase of barbarism in the world ; occasioned by the want of certain records to preserve the ancient history of the world in . which we at large discoursed of in our entrance on this subject . now in the decay of knowledge , there must needs follow a sudden and strange alteration of the memory of former times , which hath then nothing to preserve it , but the most uncertain report of fame , which alters and disguiseth things according to the humours , and inclinations , and judgements of those whose hands it passeth through . . the gradual increase of idolatry in the world : which began soon after the dispersion of nations , and in whose age , we cannot at so great a distance and in so great obscurity precisely determine ; but assoon as idolatry came in , all the ancient tradition was made subservient in order to that end ; and those persons whose memories were preserved in several nations , by degrees came to be worshipped under diversities of names ; and such things were annexed to the former traditions as would tend most to advance the greatest superstition in the world . . the confusion of languages at babel , was one great reason of corrupting the ancient tradition of the world . for in so great variety ( as suddenly happened ) of languages in the world , it cannot be conceived but such things which might be preserved in some uniform manner , had all nations used the same language , would through the diversity of idiomes and properties of several tongues be strangely altered and disguised , as will appear afterwards . this alteratisn of languages in the world upon the confusion of tongues at babel , brought as great a confusion into the original tradition , as it did among those who were the designers of that work . and because this subject of the original and cause of this diversity of languages among men , doth both tend to explain the present subject , and to clear the truth of scripture history , i shall a little further enquire into it . chiefly on this account , because it is pretended that such a confusion is needless which is delivered in scripture , for the producing such diversities of languages , which would arise through meer length of time , & the varieties of climes and customs in the world . but if we only speak concerning the sense of moses about it , the enquiry is of greater difficulty then at first view it seems to be . for it is pretended that moses nowhere speaks of a diversity of languages , as we understand it , but only of a confusion of their speech who were at babel , which might well be although they all used the same language ; that is , there might be a confusion raised in their minds , that they could not understand one another ; their notions of things being disturbed , so that though they heard one word , they had different apprehensions of it : some thinking it signified one thing and some another : as iulius s●aliger tells us that the iews he had conversed with , did not understand by it a multiplication of tongues ; but only by that confusion their former notions of things by the same words were altered . as if one called for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a stone , one by that word understands lime , another water , another sand , &c. this must needs produce a strange confusion among them , and enough to make them desist from their work . but supposing no such division of languages there , yet after their dispersion , which might be caused by the former confusion , by the different laws , rites , and customs , commerce , and trading , and tract of time , there would have risen a division of their several tongues . but if there were such a division of tongues miraculously caused there ( that as it is commonly said , all those who were of the same language , went together in their several companies ) whence comes it to pass , that in their dispersisn we read of several families dispersed , which used the same language after their dispersion ? as all the sons of canaan mentioned , gen. . , , , . used the canaanitish tongue : in greece , iavan and elisa had the same language . in aegypt misraim and pathrusim ; in arabia the sons of ioctan and chus ; in chaldaea aram and uz the inhabitants of syria , mash of mesopotamia , nimrod of babylon , assur of assyria : whence comes it to pass if their several tongues were the cause of their dispersion , that these several heads of families should use the same tongue ? another reason against the common opinion , is this , wh●ch seems to have a great deal of force in it . if tongues were divided at babel , as it is imagined ; whence was it , that the nearer any nation lay to those who had the primitive language the ebrew , they did participate more of that tongue then those who were more remote , as is plain in the chaldeans , canaanites , greeks , and others ? whereas if their languages were divided at babel , they would have retained their own language as well as others . this very argument prevailed so far with the learned is. casaubon , as appears by his adversaria on this subject ( published by the learned dr. his son ) as to make him leave the common opinion , and to conclude the several tongues to be only some variations from the ebrew , but yet so as many new words were invented too . hence he observes that the asiatick greeks came nearer to the ebrew then the european . and if this opinion hold true , it is the best foundation for deriving other languages from the ebrew : a thing attempted by the same learned person , as you may see in the book forecited , and endeavoured by guichardus , avenarius and others . thus we see there is no agreement in mens minds concerning the division of tongues at babel . but having set down this opinion with its reasons , i shall not so leave the received opinion , but shall first see what may be said for that , and leave the judgement concerning the probability of either to the understanding reader . and it seems to be grounded on these reasons . . that had it been left to mens own choice , there cannot be a sufficient reason assigned of the diversity of languages in the world . for there being one language originally in the world , whereby men did represent their conceptions to one another ; we cannot imagine that men should of themselves introduce so great an alteration , as whereby to take off that necessary society and converse with each other , which even nature it self did put men upon . hence calvin and others conclude that prodigii lo●o habenda est linguarum diversitas ; because there having been that freedom of converse among men , it is not to be supposed they should of themselves cut it off to their mutual disadvantage . but to this it is said , that the long tract of time and diversity of customs might alter the language . i grant it much , but not wholly ; and they would only therein differ in their languages , wherein their customs differed ; so that there would remain still such an agreement as whereby they might understand each other ; which it will be hard to find in many of the eldest languages . as for the length of time , though that doth alter much in reference to words and phrases , in which that of horace holds true , multa renascentur quae jam cecidere , &c. yet it will be yet more difficult to find where meer length of time hath brought a whole language out of use , and another in the room of it . but that which i think deserves well to be confidered is this , that the greatest alteration of languages in the world hath risen from colonyes of nations that used another language ; and so by the mixture of both together the language might be much altered ; as the hebrew by the chaldees in babylon ; the spanish , italian and others by t●e latin , as breerwood shews ; our own by the normans and others . so that were there not a diversity of languages supposed , this enterfereing of people would bring no considerable alteration along with it , no more then a colony from new england would alter our language here . and as for another cause assigned of the change of languages , the difference of climates , which bodin gives as the reason why the northern people use consonants and aspirates so much , especially the sax●ns , and those that live by the baltick sea who pronounce thus , per theum ferum pibimus ponum finum . and so r. d. kimchi observes of the ephraimites , judg. . . that it was the air was the cause of their lisping , and calling it sibboleth , as he there observes of the men of sarphath , that is the french , that they could not pronounce schin , but pronounced like thau raphe . but by these examples we see that this would cause only an alteration as to some letters and syllables , and rather as to the pronunciation then any variety of the language . so that we see that seting aside the confusion of languages at babel , there can be no reason sufficient assigned for the variety of languages in the world . . though it be granted , that a confusion in their minds without distinct languages were enough to make them desist from their work , yet the context in that place , gen. . doth infer a diversity of tongues , as will appear from the ante●dents and consequents ; as from the first verse , where it is not conceivable why it should be there taken notice of as such a remarkable circumstance , that then they had but one language before they set upon this work , if there was not a diversity of tongues caused by the work they went about ; but especially ver . . where god takes such notice of this very thing , that they had but one language , wherein they were so confident to carry on their work : therefore , ver . . when he would destroy their work by confounding their language , it must be by multiplying that language into many more ; for it must be taken in opposition to what is said in the other verse . and what is there added , their not understanding one anothers speech , seems to refer not to the inward conceptions , as though they did not understand one anothers minds , but to the outward expressions , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth apparently relate to them further in ver . . this is set down as the cause of their dispersion , which had the tongue been the same afterwards as it was before , could have been no reason for it . again some argue from the name babel given to the place from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifies to confound and mingle things of several kinds together . so used iudg. . . esay . iob . . &c. thence the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the middle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 left out , as in golgotha for golgoltha , kikaltha for kilkaltha and others of a like nature . besides , there seems to be somewhat in what is said , that the families were divided according to their tongues , gen. . , , . which doth at least imply a diversity of tongues among them , the cause of which must be assigned by them who will not allow of the confusion and division of languages at babel . further , this seems most agreeable to gods ●nd in making of them thus leave off their work , that there might be not only a present judgement upon them , but that which might remain to post●rity as a note of the folly of their ancestors . those who recede from the common opinion lest they should give advantage to infidels by attributing that to a miracle , which might be done without , seem to be more wary then wise in it . for besides that it is certain that miracles may be in those things which might be effected otherwise by natural causes ; when they are produced without the help of those causes , and in a space of time impossible to nature , and that it hath not been as yet proved how such diversity of tongues as is in the world would have been effected without such a miracle ; it must be granted by them that there was a miracle in it ; and what greater difficulty there should be in the variety of languages , then in the signification of the same words , i understand not . but i see no necessity of asserting that every one of the families had a distinct language , and the common opinion of . or . as the gr. families and as many languages , is now taken for a groundless fancy by learned men ; as is easily proved from the dividing father and children , whose families could not certainly be without them ; and some supposed to be unborn then as ioctans . children ; especially if we say as many do , that the confusion was at the birth of phaleg , and ioctan was his younger brother , as the iews generally do . to the last objection it may be replyed , that the agreement of languages in some radical words doth not infer the derivation of the one from the other , as is plain in the persian and german in which learned men have observed so many words alike . and so by busbequius of the inhabitants about taunche cheelsonese ; and so in most of our modern tongues there may be some words alike without any such dependence or derivation . again , though it be granted that the languages of them who were at babel were confounded , yet it is not necessary we should say that all noahs posterity were there . it is thought by some that they were chiefly cham and his company ; if so , then sem and his posterity might retain the language they had before , only with some variations . but this is very uncertain , unless we take it for heber and peleg , from whose vicinity other bordering nations might make use of many of their primitive words ; and for the greeks , it will be granted that many of their words , especially the old baeotick had affinity with the hebrew ; but it was from the pelasgi at first and cadmus the phaenician afterwards ; the old canaanitish language , being if not the pure hebrew , yet a dialect of that tongue , as is proved by many learned men . but however these things be , it is not necessary to say that all mother tongues so called , were then existent at that confusion ; but the present curse did divide their languages who were there , and that all division of languages since , is to be looked upon as the effect of that curse . it being thus manifested what a strange confusion of languages was caused in the world , we may thereby easily understand how the ancient tradition came to be corrupted and altered in the world . another reason of the alteration of the ancient tradition , was , the fabulousness of the poets ; for these made it their design to disguise all their ancient stories under fables , in which they were so lost , that they could never recover them afterwards . for the elder poets of greece being men of greater learning then generally the people were of , and being conversant in aegypt and other parts , did bring in new reports of the ancient times which they received from the nations they went to ; and by mixing their own traditions and others together , and by suiting what was remaining of the ancient tradition to these , they must needs make a strange confusion of things together , and leave them much more obscure and fabulous then they found them . and herein all their cunning and subtilty lay in putting a new face on whatever they borrowed from other nations , and making them appear among themselves in a greek habit , that the former owners of those traditions could scarce challenge them as theirs under so strange a metamorphosis . for those things which were most plain and historical in the fountains whence they derived them , they did so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as clemens alexandrinus speaks ( or as origen , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) wrap them up under so great mythology that the original truths can hardly be discerned , because of that multitude of prodigious fables , with which they have inlaid them . but as great as their artifice was in the doing this , we may yet discern apparently many of those particular courses which were taken by them to disguise and alter the primitive tradition . . attributing what was done by the great ancestors of mankind to some persons of their own nations . thus the thessalians make deucalion to be the person who escaped the flood , and from whom the world was peopled after it . and whoever compares the relation of the flood of deucalion in apollodorus with that in the scripture , might easily render apollodorus his greek in the language of the scriptures , only changing greece into the whole earth , and deucalion into noah , parnassus into ararat , and iupiter into iehova . on the same account the athenians attribute the flood to ogyges , not that the flood of ogyges and deucalion were particular and distinct deluges , which many have taken a great deal of needless pains to place in their several ages : but as deucalion was of the eldest memory in thessaly , so was ogyges at athens , and so the flood as being a matter of remotest antiquity , was on the same account in both places attributed to both these . because as mankind was supposed to begin again after the flood , so they had among them no memory extant of any elder then these two , from whom on that account they supposed mankind derived . and on the same reason it may be supposed that the assyrians attribute the ●lood to xisuthrus , whom they supposed to be a king of assyria ; but the circumstances of the story as delivered by alexander , polyhistor , and abydenus , are such as make it clear to be only a remainder of the universal flood which happened in the time of noah . so the thessalians make prometheus to be the protoplast ; the pelopponesians phoroneus , as clemens alexandrinus tells us , whom phoronides the poet calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the father of mankind . this may be now the first way of corrupting the ancient tradition , by supposing all that was conveyed by it to have been acted among themselves . which may be imputed partly to their ignorance of the state of their ancient times , and partly to their pride , lest they should seem to come behind others in matters of antiquity . . another fountain of heathen mythology , was , the taking the idiome of the oriental languages in a proper sense . for whether we suppose the ancient traditions were conveyed to them in the ancient hebrew by the pelasgi , or were delivered to them by the phaenicians , or were fetched out of the scriptures themselves ( as some suppose , though improbably of homer and some ancient poets ) yet all these several wayes agreeing in this , that the traditions were oriental , we thereby understand how much of their mythology came by taking the hebrew in a proper and literal sense without attending to the idiome of the tongue . from hence bochartus hath ingeniously fetched many heathen fables . thus when noah is said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gen. . . which in the idiome of the hebrew only signifies a husbandman , they took it in the proper sense for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and thence saturne who was the same with noah ( as will appear afterwards ) is made by mythologists the husband of rhea which was the same with the earth . so the gyants making war against heaven , was only a poetital adumbration of the design at the building of babel , whose top in the scripture is said to reach 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which in the hebrew signifies only a great height ; but to aggrandize the story , was taken in the literal interpretation , that they attempted heaven . so when they are said to fight against the gods , bochartus thinks it might be taken from that phrase of nimrod , that he was a mighty hunter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 before the lord we render it , but it sometimes signifies against the lord. so what abyd●nus saith of the gyants , that they were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , those that came out of the earth , is supposed to be taken from that phrase gen. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 è terra ipsa exiit . but far more likely and probable is that which learned men are generally agreed in concerning bacchus his being born of iupiters thigh , which is only an expression of that hebraism 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wherein coming out of the thigh i● a phrase for ordinary procreation . . a third way observable , is , the alteration of the names in the ancient tradition , and putting names of like importance to them in their own language . thus iupiter , who was the same with cham , was calld 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fervere , incalescere . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith herodotus , him whom the greeks call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the aegyptians call cham. so iapheth , whose memory was preserved under neptune , to whose portion the islands in the sea fell , was calld by the greeks 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which comes ( saith bochartus ) from the punick 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifies large and broad , which is the very importance of the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thence in allusion to the name , it is said , gen. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 god shall enlarge iaphet . thence the epithetes of neptune are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , all equally alluding to the name iaphet . so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the greek is of the same importance with the heb. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 daemen , from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to destroy . thence we read , deut. . . they sacrificed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to devils . canaan in the hebrew signifies a merchant ; thence mercury , under whom the memory of canaan the son of cham was preserved , is derived by many from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to sell. ceres , which was the inventress of agriculture , from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which imports bread-corn . these and many others are produced by vossius , heinsius , bochartus , and other learned men , which i insist not on , because my design is only digitos ad fontes intendere , and to make these handsome and probable conjectures , argumentative to our purpose , and to bind up those loose and scattering observations into some order and method , in which they have not yet appeared , nor been improved to that end which i make use of them for . . when the oriental phrases were ambiguous and equivocal , they omitted that sense which was plain and obvious , and took that which was more strange and fabulous . from hence the learned bochartus hath fetchd the fable of the golden fleece , which was nothing else but the robbing the treasury of the king of colchis ; but it was disguised under the name of the golden fleece , because the syriack word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies both a fleece and a treasury . so the bulls and dragons which kept it , were nothing but the walls and brass gates ; for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies both a bull and a wall , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 brass and a dragon . and so the fable of the brass-bull in the mountain atabyrius which foretold calamities , arose from the aequivocation of the phoenician or hebrew words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifie either doctor augur , or bos ex are , a foreteller of events , or a brazen-bull . from the like ambiguity of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 arose the fable of iupiters stealing europa in the form of a bull , because the word either signifies a ship , in which he c●nveyed her away , or a bull ; or it may be the ship had 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 bovis , as the ship st. paul sailed in had castor and pollux , it being usual to call their ships by the names of the signs they carried . from the like aequivocation in the phoenician language doth bochartus fetch many other heathen fables , in his excellent piece de phoenicum coloniis , as particularly that of arethusa coming from alpheus , which was from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a ship , because it was not far from an excellent haven . and so he makes the chimaera to be more then a meer ens rationis ; for he takes the chimaera which bellerophon conquerd , to be only the people of solymi , under their three generals , aryus , trosibis , and arsalus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that signifies a lion. trosibis was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the head of a serpent : arsalus was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a young kid , and so the chimaera consisted of the form of a lion , a goat , and a serpent . thus we see how easie a matter it was to advance the heathen mythology from the aequivocation of the oriental languages , in which their traditions were conveyed to them . but yet a more prolifick principle of mythology was by attributing the actions of several persons to one who was the first or the chief of them . thus it was in their stories of jupiter , neptune , mars , mercury , minerva , iuno , bacchus , and hercules , which were a collection of the actions done by a multitude of persons , which are all attributed to one person . so vossius tells us before the time of the trojan wars , most of their kings , who were renowned and powerful , were calld ioves . now when the actions of all these are attributed to one iupiter of cre●te , they must needs swell his story up with abundance of fables . vossius hath taken a great deal of pains to digest in an historical manner the stories of the several iupiters , whereof he reckons two argives , a third the father of hercules , a fourth a king of phrygia , and two more of cr●ete ; to one of which , without any distinction , the actions of all the rest were ascribed , and who was worshipped under the name of iupiter . and so besides the ancient neptune , who was the same with iaphet , they sometimes understood any insular prince , or one that had great power at sea ; but besides these , there were two famous neptunes among the greeks , the one of athens , the other the builder of the walls of troy : now the stories of all these being mixed together , must needs make a strange confusion . so for mars , besides that ancient one they had by the oriental tradition , they had a spartan , thracian , and arcadian mars . what abundance of mercuries are we told of by tully ? and of no less then five minerva's . every angry , scornful jealous queen would fill up the fables of iuno , who was equally claimed by the argives and samians . what contests were there between the greeks and aegyptians concerning the country of bacchus , or liber pater , whose story was made up of many patches of the oriental story , as will appear afterwards . ●he same may be said of hercules . now what a strange way was this to increase the number of fables ? when they had one whose memory was anciently preserved among them , they attributed the actions of all such to him , who came near him in that which his memory was most remarkable for : and in those things which they did retain of the eastern tradition , it was an usual thing to confound persons , places , and actions together . so the story of enoch and methuselah is joyned together by stephanus de urbibus , under the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , who is said there to live above years ( which agrees with enoch as the name doth ) and that at his death the world should be destroyed by a flood . ; which agrees with methuselah . so abraham by orpheus is calld 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which belongs to isaac his son ; so the actions of nimrod , ninus , and cham , are confounded together in their mythology . by these several wayes now we understand how the original tradition was by degrees corrupted and alterd in the heathen mythology . i come now to the footsteps of scripture-history which not withstanding these corruptions , may be discerned in the heathen mythology ; which i shall methodically enquire after according to the series of scripture-history . that the names given to god in scripture were preserved among the phoenicians , appears sufficiently by the remainders of the phoenician theology , translated by philo byblius out of sanchoniathon ; wherein we read of the god 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which hath the same letters with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 besides which there we meet with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the most high , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the strong god ; beelsamen , which is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the god of heaven , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the very name of god used in the beginning of genesis so often . besides , in those fragments we have express mention of the chaos , and the evening following it , or the darkness on the face of the deep ; the creation of angels under the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 those beings which contemplate the heavens ; and the creation of mankind 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith bochartus , the voice of the mouth of god , which is by gods word and inspiration , when it is expressed that god said , let us make man , and that he breathed into him the breath of life . after we read of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which properly agree to adam , who was made out of the earth . vossius conceives that the memory of adam was preserved among the old germans , of whom tacitus speaks , celebrant antiquis carminibus tuistonem deum terra editum , & filium mannum , originem gentis , conditoresque . either by tuisto adam is understood , who was formed of the earth , and by mannus , noah ; or by tuisto god may be understood , and by mannus , adam ; to which conjecture may be added further , that the same author reports that some of the germans sacrificed to isis , which vossius likewise conceives to be a remainder of the hebrew ischa . and so among the aegyptians it is with like probability conceived that adam and ischa were preserved under osiris and isis , as they were historically taken . in cilicia , the city adana is thought to have some remainder of the name of adam ; for the greeks had no termination in m. therefore for adam they pronounced it adan , and that from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so the city adana : now that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by stephanus de urbibus , is said to be the son of heaven and earth . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . this adanus , he tells us , was otherwise calld 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or saturn , under whom the greeks preserved the memory of adam ; for diodorus , thallus , cassius severus , and cornelius nepos , do all ( as tertullian saith ) confess saturn to have been a man ; and according to their fables , he must have been the first of men . saturn was the son of heaven and earth , and so was adam ; he taught men husbandry , and was not adam the first that tilled the ground ? besides , that power which saturn had , and was deposed from , doth fitly set out the dominion man had in the golden age of innocency which he lost by his own folly . and adams hiding himself from the presence of the lord , gave occasion to the name of saturn , from satar to hide . we find something of cain preserved in the phoenician antiquities , under the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the first countryman or husbandman , who with his brother 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 built houses , and the first foundation of a city is attributed to cain : and on that account vossius conjectures that the memory of cains wife was preserved under vesta , both because she was the daughter of saturn , i. e. of adam , and that she is said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to find out first the way of building houses . that tubal-cain gave first occasion to the name and worship of vulcan , hath been very probably conceived , both from the very great affinity of the names , and that tubal-cain is expresly mentiond to be an instructer of every artisicer in brass and iron ; and as near relation as apollo had to vulcan . iabal had to tubal-cain , who was the inventer of musick , or the father of all such as handle the harp and organ , which the greeks attribute to apollo . and if that be true which genebrard and others ascribed to naamah , the sister of iubal and tubal-cain , viz. that she was the inventer of spinning and weaving , then may she come in for minerva . thus we see there were some , though but obscure footsteps preserved , even of that part of scripture-history which preceded the flood . the memory of the deluge it self we have already found to be preserved in the heathen mythology ; we come therefore to noah and his posterity . many parcels of noahs memory were preserved in the scatterd fragments of many fables , under saturn , ianus , prometheus , and bacchus . bochartus insists on no fewer then parallels between noah and the heathen saturn , which he saith are so plain , that there is no doubt but under saturn noah was understood in the heathen mythology . saturn was said to be the common parent of mankind , so was noah ; saturn was a just king , noah not only righteous himself , but a preacher of righteousness : the golden age of saturn was between noah and the dispersion of nations . in noahs time all mankind had but one language , which the heathens extend under saturn , both to men and beasts : the plantation of vines attributed to saturn by the heathens , as to noah by the scriptures : the law of saturn mentiond by the poets , that none should see the nakedness of the gods without punishment ; seems to respect the fact and curse of cham , in reference to noah . saturn , and rhea , and those with them are said to be born of thetis , or the oce●n , which plainly alludes to noah and his company 's escaping the flood ; thence a ship was the symbol of saturn , and that saturn devoured all his children seems to be nothing else but the destruction of the old world by noahs flood . and not only under saturn , but under prometheus too was noahs memory preserved . diodorus speaks of the great flood under prometheus ; and prometheus implyes one that hath forecast and wisdom , such as noah had , wher●by he foretold the flood and was saved in it , when others were epimetheus's that had not wit to prevent their own destruction . and no wonder if promethus were noah , that the forming mankind was attributed to him , when the world was peopled from him . herodotus his saying that asia was prometheus his wife , might relate to the country noah lived in and our propagation from thence . another part of noahs memory was preserved under ianus ; the name of ianus is most probably derived from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because of noahs planting a vine , and ianus was called consivius , saith macrobius à conserendo , boc est à propagine generis humani quae iano autore conseritur ; now to whom can this be so properly applyed as to noah from whom mankind was propagated ? and ianus his being bifrons or looking 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 forward and backward , is not so fit an embleme of any thing as of noahs seeing those two ages before and after the flood . and it is further observable which plutarch speaks of in his roman questions , that the ancient coines had on one side the image of ianus with his two faces , on the other 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the fore or hinder part of a ship , by which the memory of the ark of noah seems to have been preserved . thus we see what an●logy there is in the story of ianus with that of noah , not that ● give credit to those fooleries which tell us of noahs coming from palestine with his son iaphet into italy and planting colonies there , for which we are beholding to the spurious ethruscan antiquities ; but all that i assert , is , that the story of noah might be preserved in the eldest colonyes , though disguised under other names as here in the case of ianus . and on the same account that the name of ianus is attributed to noah , some likewise believe him to have been the most ancient bacchus who was according to diodorus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the first planter of vines and instructer of men in making wines ; and besides bacchus his being twice born , seems only an adumbration of noahs preservation after the flood , which might be accounted a second nativity when the rest of the world was destroyed ; and withall philostratus in the life of apollonius relates that the ancient indian bacchus came thither out of assyria , which yet more fully agrees with noah . so that from these scattered members of hippolytus and these broken fragments of traditions , we may gather almost an entire history of all the passages concerning noah . as the story of saturn and noah do much agree , so the three sons of noah and those of saturn , iupiter , neptune , and pluto have their peculiar resemblances to each other . of which vossius and bochartus have largely spoken , and we have touched on already . besides which this latter author hath carried the parallel lower , and finds canaan the son of cham the same with mercury the son of iupiter ; as it was the curse of canaan to be a servant of servants , so mercury is alwayes described under servile employments ; his wings seem to be the ships of the phaenicians who were derived from canaan , and his being the god of trade noting the great merchandize of the phaenicians , and mercuryes theevery noting the pyracies , or at lest the subtilty and craft of the phaenicians ; he was the father of eloquence and astronomy , as letters and astronomy came from the phaenicians into greece . the same author parallels nimrod and bacchus , and magog and prometheus together . the name of bacchus is but a light variation of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 bar-chus , as nimrod was the son of chus , and bacchus is called nebrodes by the greeks , which is the very name of nimrod among them , and bacchus is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which excellently interprets nimrods being a mighty hunter , bacchus his expeditions into india were the attempts of nimrod and the assyrian emperors . on which account vossius makes nimrod or belus the most ancient mars ; for hestiaeus milesius speaks of enyalius which is mars , his being in sennaar of babylonia . that the memory of magog was preserved under prometheus , these things make it probable , that magog was the son of iaphet , as prometheus of iapetus , and that the posterity of magog was placed about cau●asus , where prometheus is fained to lie : and the eating of prometheus his heart , is only an interpretation of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which applyed to the heart signifies to wast away and be consumed . thus far bochartus . the phaenician antiquities seem to have preserved the memory of abrahams sacrificing his son isaac , by that place which eusebius produceth out of porphyries book concerning the iews ; where he relates , how saturn whom the phaenicians call israel , when he reigned in those parts , and had an only son called jeoud of a nymph called anobret , being under some great calamity , did sacrifice that son of his being cloathed with a royal habit . here we have a royal person called israel , and that abraham should be accounted a king in those elder times , is nothing strange , considering his wealth , and what petty royalties there were in those times . but grotius , and from him vossius , do not think that abraham was here called israel , but that the transcriber of eusebius meeting with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 supposed it to be a contraction of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so writ it at length ; it must be acknowledged that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used in the phaenician theology for saturn , but yet the circumstances of the story make the ordinary reading not improbable ; neither is it strange , that abraham should be called by the name of the people which he was the progenitor of . that isaac should be meant by his only son called ieoud is most likely ; for when god bids abraham go sacrifice him , he saith , take thy son , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thy only son , j●hid is the same with the phaenician ieoud . that sara is meant by an●bret , the original of the name implyes , which is as bochartus derives it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 annoberest , that is , ex gratiâ concipiens , which the apostle explains , through faith sara her self received strength to conceive seed . now all the difference is , that which was only designed and intended by abraham , was believed by the phaenicians as really done , that it might be as a president to them for their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sacrificing of men , a thing so much in use among the phaenicians , and all the colonyes derived from them , as many learned men have at large shewed . but besides this , there are particular testimonies concerning abraham , his age , wisdom and knowledge , his coming out of chaldea , and the propagation of knowledge from him among the chaldeans , phaenicians , and aegyptians , are extant out of berosus , eupolemus , and others in iosephus and eusebius , and from thence transcribed by many learned men , which on that account i forbear transcribing as being common and obvious . some have not improbably conj●ctured , that the memory of iacobs long peregrination and service with his uncle laban , was preserved under the story of apollo his banishment and being a shepherd under admetus . for callimachus reports that love was the cause of apollo's travails , as it was of iacobs , and withall mentions a strange increase of cattel under apollo's care , answerable to what the scripture reports concerning iacob . but it is more certain , that the memory of iacobs setting up the stone he had rested on for a pillar , and pouring oyle upon it , and calling the place bethel , was preserved under the annointed stones which the phaenicians from bethel called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as hath been frequently observed by learned men ; from whence came the custome of anointing stones among the heathens , of which so very many have largely discoursed . thence the proverb of a superstitious man , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which arnobius calls lubricatum lapidem & ex olivi unguine sordidatum . it seems the anointing the stones with oyle , was then the symbol of the consecration of them . the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for such a stone occurres in hesychius , the greek etymologist , damascius in photius and others . that the memory of ioseph in aegypt was preserved under the aegyptian apis , hath been shewed with a great deal of probability by the learned vossius , in his often cited piece of idolatry , from the testimonies of iulius maternus , rufinus , and suidas , and from these three arguments . . the greatness of the benefit which the aegyptians received by ioseph ; which was of that nature that it could not easily be forgot , and that no symbol was so proper to set it out as the aegyptian apis ; because the famine was portended by lean kine , and the plenty by fat ; and minucius at rome for relieving the people in a time of famine , had a statue of a golden bull erected to his memory . . the aegyptians were not backward to testifie their respect to ioseph , as appears by pharoahs rewarding of him ; now it was the custom of the aegyptians to preserve the memories of their great benefactors by some symbols to posterity ; which were at first intended only for a civil use , although they were after abused to superstition and idolatry . . from the names of apis and serapis . apis he conceives to be the sacred name of ioseph among the aegyptians , and is as much as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 father ; so ioseph himself saith he was as a father to pharoah . and serapis , as rufinus and suidas both tell us , had a bushel upon his head , and serapis is probably derived from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sor , which signifies a bull , and a●is . so that by this means the story of ioseph is attested by the aegyptians superstitions , of which they can give no account so likely as this is . many things concerning moses are preserved in the story of bacchus , not that from thence we are to conclude that moses was the bacchus of the greeks , as vossius thinks , but they took several parts of the eastern traditions concerning him , which they might have from the phaenicians who came with cadmus into greece , while the memory of moses was yet fresh among the canaanites . in the story of bacchus as vossius observes , it is expresly said that he was born in aegypt , and that soon after his birth he was put in an ark , and exposed to the river , which tradition was preserved among the brasiatae of laconica : and bacchus in orpheus is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and by plutarchde iside & osiride , palaestinus : and he is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which agrees to moses , who besides his own mother was adopted by pharoahs daughter : bacchus was likewise commended for his beauty as moses was , and was said to be educated in a mount of arabia called nysa , which agrees with moses his residence in arabia fourty years ; so plutarch mentions 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the banishments of bacchus , and nonnus mentions bacchus his flight into the red sea : who likewise mentions his battels in arabia and with the neighbouring princes there . diodorus saith , that bacchus his army had not only men but women in it ; which is most true of the company which moses led . orpheus calls bacchus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and attributes to him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whereby we understand moses his being a legislator , and that he delivered the law in two tables moses his fetching water out of a rock with his rod , is preserved in the orgia of bacchus , in which euripides relates that agave and the rest of the bacchae celebrating the orgia , one of them touched a rock and the water came out : and in the same orgia euripides reports , how they were wont to crown their heads with serpents , probably in memory of the cure of the siery scrpents in the wilderness . a dog is made the companion of bacchus , which is the signification of caleb , who so faithfully adhered to moses . to these and some other circumstances insisted on by vossius , bochartus adds two more very considerable ones ; which are , that nonnus reports of bacchus that he touched the two rivers orontes and hydaspes with his thyrsus or rod , and that the rivers dryed , and he passed through them : and that his ivy-staffe being thrown upon the ground crept up and down like a serpent , and that the indians were in darkness while the bacchae enjoyed light ; which circumstances considered will make every one that hath judgement say as bochartus doth ; ex mirabili ill● concentu vel coecis apparebit priscos fabularum architectos e scriptoribus sacris multa ●sse mutuatos . from this wonderful agreement of heathen mythology with the scriptures , it cannot but appear that one is a corruption of the other . that the memory of i●shua and sampson was preserved under hercules tyrius , is made likewise very probable from several circumstances of the stories . others have deduced the many rites of heathen worship , from those used in the tabernacle among the iews . several others might be insisted on as the parallel between og and typho , and between the old silenus and balaam , both noted for their skill in divination , both taken by the water , num. . . both noted for riding on an ass : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith lucian of the old silenus ; and that which makes it yet more probable , is that of pausanias 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which some learned men have been much puzled to find out the truth of ; and this conjecture which i here propound , may pass at least for a probable account of it ; but i shall no longer insist on these things , having i suppose , done what is sufficient to our purpose , which is to make it appear what footsteps there are of the truth of scripture-history amidst all the corruptions of heathen mythology , chap. vi. of the excellency of the scriptures . concerning matters of pure divine revelation in scripture : the terms of salvation only contained therein . the ground of the disesteem of the scriptures is tacite unbelief . the excellency of the scriptures manifested as to the matters which god hath revealed therein . the excellency of the discoveryes of gods nature which are in scripture . of the goodness and love of god in christ. the suitableness of those discoveries of god to our natural notions of a deity . the necessity of gods making known himself to us in order to the regulating our conceptions of him . the scriptures give the fullest account of the state of mens souls , and the corruptions which are in them . the only way of pleasing god discovered in scriptures . the scriptures contain matters of greatest mysteriousness , and mest universal satisfaction to mens minds . the excellency of the manner wherein things are revealed in scriptures , in regard of clearness , authority , purity , uniformity , and perswasiveness . the excellency of the scriptures as a rule of life . the nature of the duties of religion and the reasonableness of them . the greatness of the encouragements to religion contained in the scriptures the great excellency of the scriptures , as containing in them the cove●ant of grace in order to mans salvation . having thus largely proved the truth of all those passages of sacred scripture which concern the history of the first ages of the world , by all those arguments which a subject of that nature is capable of , the only thing le●t in order to our full proving the divinity of the scriptures , is , the consideration of ●hose matters contained in it , which are in an espec●al ma●ne● said to be of divine revelation . for those historical p●ssages , though we believe them as contained in the scripture , to have been divinely inspired as well as others ; yet they are such things as supposing no divine revelati●n , might have been known sufficiently to the world , had not men b●en wanting to themselves as to the care and means of preserving them ; but those matters which i now come to discourse of , are of a more sublime and transcendent nature , such as it had been imp●ssible for the minds of men to reach , had they not been immediately discovered by god himself . and those are the terms and conditions on which the soul of man may upon good grounds expect an eternal happiness , which we assert the book of scriptures to be the only authentick and infallible records of . men might by the improvements of reason and the sagacity of their minds discover much , not only of the lapsed condition of their souls , and the necessity of a purgation of them in order to their felicity , but might in the general know what things are pleasing and acceptable to the divine nature , from those differences of good and evil which are unalterably fixed in the things themselves ; but which way to obtain any certainty of the remission of sins , to recover the grace and favour of god , to enjoy perfect tranquillity and peace of conscience , to be able to please god in things agreeable to his will , and by these to be assured of eternal bliss , had been impossible for men to have ever found , had not god himself been graciously pleased to reveal them to us . men might still have bewildred themselvs in following the ignes fatui of their own imaginations , and hunting up and down the world for a path which leads to heaven , but could have found none , unless god himself taking pitty of the wandrings of men had been pleased to hang out a light from heaven to direct them in their way thither , and by this pharos of divine revelation to direct them so to stear their course , as to escape splitting themselves on the rocks of open impieties , or being swallowed up in the quicksands of terrene delights . neither doth he shew them only what sh●lves and rocks they must escape , but what particular course they must ste●re , what star they must have in their eye , what compass they must observe , what winds and gales they must expect and pray for , if they would at last arrive at eternal bliss . eternal bliss ! what more could a god of infinite goodness promise , or the soul of man ever wish ●or ? a reward to such who are so ●ar from deserving , that they are still prov●king ; glory to such who are more apt to be ashamed of their duties , then of their offences ; but that it should not only be a glorious reward , but eternal too , is that which though it infinitely transcend the deserts of the receivers , yet it highly discovers the infinite goodness of the giver . but when we not only know that there is so rich a mine of inestimable treasures , but if the owner of it undertakes to shew us the way to it , and gives us certain and infallible directions how to come to the full p●ssession of it , how much are we in love with misery , and do we court our own ruine , if we neglect to hearken to his directions , and observe his commands ! this is that we are now undertaking to make good concerning the scriptures , that these alone contain those sacred discoveries by which the souls of men may come at last to enjoy a compleat and eternal happiness . one would think there could be nothing more needless in the world then to bid men regard their own welfare , and to seek to be happy ; yet whoever casts his eye into the world , will find no counsel so little hearkned to as this , nor any thing which is more generally looked on as a matter trivial and impertinent . which cannot arise but from one of these two grounds , that either they think it no great wisdom to let go their present hold as to the good things of this world , for that which they secretly question whe●her they shall ever live to see or no ; or else that their minds are in suspense , whether they be not sent on a guiana voyage to heaven , wh●ther the certainty of it be yet fully discovered , or the instructions which are given be such as may infallibly conduct them th●her . the first , though it hath the advantage of sense , fruition , delight , and further expectation ; yet to a rational person who seriously reflects on himself , and sums up what ( after all his troubles and disquietments in the procuring , his cares in keeping , his disappointments in his expectations , his fears of losing what he doth enjoy , and that vexation of spirit which attends all these ) he hath gained of true contentment to his mind , can never certainly beleive that ever these things were intended for his happiness . for is it possible that the soul of man should ever enjoy its full and compleat happiness in this world , when nothing is ●ble to make it happy , but what is most suitable to its nature , able to fill up its large capacity , and commensurate with its duration : but in this life the matter of mens greatest delights is strangely unsuitable to the nature of our rational beings ; the measure of them too short for our vast desires to stretch themselves upon ; the proportion too scant and narrow to run parallel with immortality . it must be then only a supreme , insinite , and eternal being , which by the free communications of his bounty and goodness can fix and satiate the souls desires , and by the constant flowings forth of his uninterrupted streams of favour will alwayes keep up desire , and yet alwayes satisfie it . one whose goodness can only be felt by some tansient touches here , whose love can be seen but as through a lattice , whose constant presence may be rather wished for then enjoyed , who hath reserved the full sight and fruition of himself to that future state when all these dark vails shall be done away , and the soul shall be continually sunning her self under immediate beams of light and love . but how or in what way the soul of man in this degenerate condition should come to be partaker of so great a happiness , by the enjoyment of that god our natures are now at such a distance from , is the greatest and most important enquiry of humane nature ; and we continually see how successless and unsatisfactory the endeavours of those have been to themselves at last , who have sought for this happiness in a way of their own finding out ; the large volume of the creation , wherein god hath described so much of his wisdom and power , is yet too dark and obscure , too short and imperfect to set forth to us the way which leads to eternal happinesse . unlesse then the same god who made mens souls at first , do shew them the way for their recovery ; as they are in a degenerate , so they will be in a desperate condition ; but the same bounty and goodness of god , which did at first display its self in giving being to mens souls , hath in a higher manner enlarged the discovery of its self , by making known the way whereby we may be taken into his grace and favour again . which it now concerns us particularly to discover , thereby to make it appear that this way is of that peculiar excellency , that we may have from thence the greatest evidence , it could come from no other author but god himself , and doth tend to no other end but our eternal happiness . now that incomparable excellency which is in the sacred scriptures , will fully appear , if we consider the matters contained in them under this threefold capacity . . as matters of divine revelation . . as a rule of life . . as containing that covenant of grace which relates to mans eternal happiness . . consider the scripture generally , as containing in it matters of divine revelation , and therein the excellency of the scriptures appeares in two things . . the matters which are revealed . . the manner wherein they are revealed . . the matters which are revealed in scripture , may be considered these three wayes . . as they are matters of the greatest weight and moment . . as m●tters of the greatest depth and mysteriousness . . as matters of the most universal satisfaction to the minds of men . . they are matters of the greatest moment and importance for men to know ▪ the wisdom of men is most known by the weight of the things they speak ; and therefore that wherein the wisdom of god is discovered , cannot contain any thing that is mean and trivial ; they must be matters of the highest importance , which the supreme ruler of the world vouchsafes to speak to men concerning : and such we shall find the matters which god hath revealed in his word to be , which either concern the rectifying our apprehensions of his nature , or making known to men their state and condition , or discovering the way whereby to avoid eternal misery . now which is there of these three , which supposing god to discover his mind to the world , it doth not highly become him to speak to men of ? . what is there which it doth more highly concern men to know then god himself ? or what more glorious and excellent object could he discover then himself to the world ? there is nothing certainly which should more commend the scriptures to us , then that thereby we may grow more acquainted with god ; that we may know more of his nature , and all his perfections , and many of the great reasons of his actings in the world . we may by them understand with safety what the eternal purposes of god were as to the w●y of mans recovery by the death of his son ; we may there see and understand the great wisdom of god ; not only in the contrivance of the world , and ordering of it , but in the gradual revelations of himself to his people , by what steps he trained up his church till the fulness of time was come ; what his aim was in laying such a load of ceremonies on his people of the iews ; by what steps & degrces he made way for the full revelation of his will to the world by speaking in these last dayes by his son , after he had spoke at sundry times and divers manners by the prophets , &c. unto the fathers . in the scriptures we read the most rich and admirable discoveries of divine goodness , and all the wayes and methods he useth in alluring sinners to himself , with what majesty he commands , with what condiscension he intreats , with what importunity he wooes mens souls to be reconciled to him , with what favour he embraceth , with what tenderness he chastiseth , with what bowels he pitieth those who have chosen him to be their god! with what power he supporteth , with what wisdom he direct●th , with what cordials he refesheth the souls of such who are dejected vnder the sense of his displeasure , and yet their love is sincere towards him ! with what profound humility , what holy boldness , what becoming distance , and yet what restless importunity do we therein finde the souls of gods people addressing themselves to him in prayer ! with what cheerfulness do they serve him , with what confidence do they trust him , with what resolution do they adhere to him in all streights and difficulties , with what patience do they submit to his will in their greatest extremities ! how fearful are they of sinning against god , how careful to please him , how regardless of suffering , when they must choose either that or sinning , how little apprehensive of mens displeasure , while they enjoy the favour of god. now all these things which are so fully and pathetically expressed in scripture , do abundantly set forth to us the exuberancy and pleonasm of gods grace and goodness towards his people , which makes them delight so much in him , and be so sensible of his displeasure . but above all other discoveries of gods goodness , his sending his son into the world to die for sinners , is that which the scripture sets forth with the greatest life and eloquence . by eloquence , i mean not an artificial composure of words , but the gravity , weight , and perswasiveness of the matter contained in them . and what can tend more to melt our frozen hearts into a current of thankful obedience to god , then the vigorous reflection of the beams of gods love through iesus christ upon us ! was there ever so great an expression of love heard of ! nay , was it possible to be imagined , that that god who perfectly hates sin , should himself offer the pardon of it , and send his son into the world to secure it to the sinner , who doth so heartily repent of his sins , as to deny himself , and take up his cross and follow christ ! well might the apostle say , this is a faithful saying , and worthy of all acceptation , that iesus christ came into the world to save sinners . how dry and sapless are all the voluminous discourses of philosophers , compared with this sentence ! how je●une and unsatisfactory are all the discoveries they had of god and his goodness , in comparison of what we have by the gospel of christ ! well might paul then say , that he determin'd to know nothing but christ and him crucified . christ crucified is the library which triumphant souls will be studying in to all eternity . this is the only library which is the true 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that which cures the soul of all its maladies and distempers ; other knowledge makes mens minds giddy and flatulent ; this settles and composes them ; other knowledge is apt to swell men into high conceits and opinions of themselves ; this brings them to the truest view of themselves , and thereby to humility and sobriety : other knowledge leaves mens hearts as it found them ; this alters them and makes them better , so transcendent an excellency is there in the knowledge of christ crucified above the sublimest speculations in the world . and is not this an inestimable benefit we enjoy by the scripture , that therein we can read and converse with all these expressions of gods love and goodness , and that in his own language ? shall we admire and praise what we meet with in heathen philosophers , which is generous and handsome ; and shall we not adore the infinite fulness of the scriptures , which run over with continued expressions of that and a higher nature ? what folly is it to magnifie those lean kine , the notions of philosophers , and to contemn the fat , the plenty and fulness of the scriptures ? if there be not far more valuable and excellent discoveries of the divine nature and perfections ; if there be not far more excellent directions and rules of practice in the sacred scriptures , then in the sublimest of all the philosophers , then let us leave our full ears , and feed upon the thin . but certainly no sober & rational s●irit that puts any value upon the knowledge of god , but on the same account that he doth prize the discourses of any philosophers concerning god , he cannot but set a value of a far higher on the word of god. and as the goodness of god is thus discovered in scripture , so is his iustice and holin●ss ; we have therein recorded the most remarkable judgements of god upon contumacious sinners , the severest denunciations of a judgement to come against all that live in sin , the exactest precepts of holiness in the world ; and what can be desired more to discover the holiness of god , then we finde in scripture concerning him ? if therefore acquaintance with the nature , perfections , designs of so excellent a being as god is , be a thing desirable to humane nature , we have the greatest cause to admire the excellency , and adore the fulness of the scriptures which give us so large , rational , and compleat account of the being and attributes of god. and which tends yet more to commend the scriptures to us , those things which the scripture doth most fully discover concerning god , do not at all contradict those prime & common notions which are in our natures concerning him , but do exceedingly advance and improve them , and tend the most to regulate our conceptions and apprehensions of god , that we may not miscarry therein , as otherwise men are apt to do . for it being natural to men so far to love themselves , as to set the greatest value upon those excellencies which they think themselves most masters o● ; thence men came to be exceedingly mistaken in their apprehensions of a deity , some attributing one thing as a perfection , another a different thing , according to their humours and inclinations . thus imperious self-willed men are apt to cry up gods absolute power and dominion as his greatest perfection ; easie and soft-spirited men his patience and goodness ; severe and rigid men his justice and severity ; every one according to his humour and temper , making his god of his own complexion ; and not only so , but in things remote enough from being perfections at all ; yet because they are such things as they prize and value , they suppose of necessity they must be in god , as is evident in the eicureans 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by which they excluded providence , as hath been already observed . and withal considering how very difficult it is for one who really believes that god is of a pure , just , and holy nature , and that he hath grievously offended him by his sins , to believe that this god will pardon him upon true repentance . it is thence necessary that god should make known himself to the world , to prevent our misconceptions of his nature , and to assure a suspicious , because guilty creature , how ready he is to pardon iniquity , transgession , and sin , to such as unfeignedly repent of their follies , and return unto himself . though the light of nature may dictate much to us of the benignity and goodness of the divine nature , yet it is hard to conceive that that should discover further then gods general goodness to such as please him ; but no foundation can be gatherd thence of his readiness to pardon offenders , which being an act of grace , must alone be discoverd by his will. i cannot think the sun , moon , and stars are such itinerant preachers , as to unfold unto us the whole counsel and will of god in reference to mans acceptance with god upon repentance . it is not every star in the firmament can do that which the star once did to the wise men , lead them unto christ. the sun in the heavens is no parhelius to the son of righteousness . the best astronomer will never finde the day-star from on high in the rest of his number . what st. austin said o● tullies works , is true of the whole volume of the creation , there are admirable things to be found in them ; but the name of christ is not legible there . the work of redemption is not engraven on the works of providence ; if it had , a particular divine revelation had been unnecessary , and the apostles were sent on a needless errand , which the world had understood without their preaching , viz , that god was in christ reconciling the world unto himself , not imputing to men their trespasses , and hath committed to them the ministry of reconciliation . how was the word of reconciliation committed to them , if it were common to them with the whole frame of the world ? and the apostles quaere elsewhere might have been easily answered , how can men hear without a preacher ? for then they might have known the way of salvation , without any special messengers sent to deliver it to them . i grant that gods long suffering and patience is intended to lead men to repentance , and that some general collections might be made from providence of the placability of gods nature , and that god never left himself without a witness of his goodness in the world , being king to the unthankful , and doing good , in giving rain and fruitful seasons . but though these things might sufficiently discover to such who were apprehensive of the guilt of sin , that god did not act according to his greatest severity , and thereby did give men encouragement to hearken out & enquire after the true way of being reconciled to god ; yet all this amounts not to a firm foundation for faith as to the remission of sin , which doth suppose god himself publishing an act of grace and indempnity to the world , wherein he assures the pardon of sin to such as truly repent and unfeignedly believe his holy gospel . now is not this an inestimable advantage we enjoy by the scriptures , that therein we understand what god himself hath discoverd of his own nature and perfections , and of his readiness to pardon sin upon those gracious terms of faith and repentance , and that which necessarily follows from these two , hearty and sincere obedience . . the scriptures give the most faithful representation of the state and condition of the soul of man. the world was almost lost in disputes concerning the nature , condition , and immortality of the soul before divine revelation was made known to mankind by the gospel of christ ; but life and immortality was brrught to light by the gospel , and the future state of the soul of man , not discoverd in an uncertain platonical way , but with the greatest light and evidence from that god who hath the supreme disposal of souls , and therefore best knows and understands them . the scriptures plainly and fully reveal a judgement to come , in which god will judge the secrets of all hearts , when every one must give an account of himself unto god , and god will call men to give an account of their stewardship here , of all the receits they have had from him , and the expences they have been at , and the improvements they have made of the talents he put into their hands . so that the gospel of christ is the fullest instrument of discovery of the certainty of the future state of the soul , and the conditions which abide it , upon its being dislodged from the body . but this is not all which the scripture discovers as to the state of the soul ; for it is not only a prospective-glass , reaching to its future state , but it is the most faithful looking-glass , to discover all the spots and deformities of the soul : and not only shews where they are , but whence they came , what their nature is , and whether they tend . the true original of all that disorder and discomposure which is in the soul of man , is only fully and satisfactorily given us in the word of god , as hath been already proved . the nature and working of this corruption in man , had never been so clearly manifested , had not the law and will of god been discovered to the world ; that is the glass whereby we see the secret workings of those bees in our hearts , the corruptions of our natures ; that sets forth the folly of our imaginations , the unruliness of our passions , the distempers of our wills , and the abundant deceitfulness of our hearts . and it is hard for the most elephantine sinner ( one of the greatest magnitude ) so to trouble these waters , as not therein to discover the greatness of his own deformities . but that which tends most to awaken the drowsie , sensless spirits of men , the scripture doth most fully describe the tendency of corruption , that the wages of sin is death , and the issue of continuance in sin will be the everlasting misery of the soul , in a perpetual separation from the presence of god , and undergoing the lashes and severities of conscience to all eternity . what a great discovery is this of the faithfulness of god to the world , that he suffers not men to undo themselves without letting them know of it before-hand , that they might avoid it . god seeks not to entrap mens souls , nor doth he rejoyce in the misery and ruine of his creatures , but fully declares to them what the consequence and issue of their sinful practices will be , assures them of a judgement to come , declares his own future s●verity against contumacious sinners , that they might not think themselves surprized , and that if they had known there had been so great danger in sin , they would never have been such fools as for the sake of it to run into eternal misery . now god to prevent this , with the greatest plainness and faithfulness , hath shewed men the nature and danger of all their sins , and asks them before hand what they will do in the end thereof ; whether they are able to bear his wrath , and wrestle with everlasting burnings ? if not , he bids them bethink themselves of what they have done already , and repent & amend their lives , lest iniquity prove their ruine , & destruction overtake them , and that without remedy . now if men have cause to prize and value a faithful monitor , one that tenders their good , and would prevent their ruine , we have cause exceedingly to prize and value the scriptures , which give us the truest representation of the state and condition of our souls . . the scripture discovers to us the only way of pleasing god , and enjoying his favour . that clearly reveals the way ( which man might have sought for to all eternity without particular revelation ) whereby sins may be pardond , and whatever we do may be acceptable unto god. it shews us that the ground of our acceptance with god , is through christ , whom he hath made a propitiation for the sins of the world , and who alone is the true and living way , whereby we may draw near to god with a true heart , in full assurance of faith , having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience . through christ we understand the terms on which god will shew favour and grace to the world , and by him we have ground of a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , access with freedome and boldness unto god. on his account we may hope not only for grace so subdue our sins , resist temptations , conquer the devil and the world ; but having fought this good fight and finished our course , by patient continuance in well doing , we may justly look for glory , honour , and immortality , and that crown of righteousness which is laid up for those who wait in faith , holiness , and humility for the appearance of christ from heaven . now what things can there be of greater moment and importance for men to know , or god to reveal , then the nature of god , and our selves , the state and condition of our souls , the only way to avoid eternal misery and enjoy everlasting bliss ! the scriptures discover not only matters of importance , but of the greatest depth and mysteriousness . there are many wonderful things in the law of god , things we may admire , but are never able to comprehend . such are the eternal purposes and decrees of god , the doctrine of the trinity , the incarnation of the son of god , and the manner of the operation of the spirit of god on the souls of men , which are all things of great weight and moment for us to understand and believe that they are , and yet may be unsearchable to our reason , as to the particular manner of them . what certain ground our faith stands on as to these things , hath been already shewed , and therefore i forbear insisting on them . the scripture comprehends matters of the most universal satisfaction to the minds of men ; though many things do much exceed our apprehensions , yet others are most su●table to the dictates of our nature . as origen bid celsus see , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whether it was not the agreeableness of the principles of faith with the common notions of humane nature , that which prevailed most upon all candid and ingenuous auditors of them . and therefore as socrates said of heraclitus his books , what he understood was excellent ; and therefore he supposed that which he did not understand was so too : so ought we to say of the scriptures , if those things which are within our capacity be so suitable to our natures and reasons , those cannot contradict our reason which yet are above them . there are many things which the minds of men were sufficiently assured that they were , yet were to seek for satisfaction concerning them , which they could never have had without divine revelation . as the nature of true happiness , wherein it lay , and how to be obtained , which the philosophers were so puzled with , the scripture gives us full satisfaction concerning it . true contentment under the troubles of life , which the scripture only acquaints us with the true grounds of ; and all the prescriptions of heathen moralists fall as much short of , as the directions of an empirick doth of a wise and skilful physitian . avoiding the fears of death , which can alone be through a grounded expectation of a future state of happiness which death leads men to , which cannot be had but through the right understanding of the word of god. thus we see the excellency of the matters themselves contained in this revelation of the mind of god to the world . as the matters themselves are of an excellent nature , so is the manner wherein they are revealed in the scriptures ; and that , . in a clear and perspicuous manner ; not but there may be still some passages which are hard to be understood , as being either prophetical or consisting of ambiguous phrases , or containing matters above our comprehension ; but all those things which concern the terms of mans salvation , are delivered with the greatest evidence and perspicuiry . who cannot understand what these things mean , what doth the lord require of thee , but to do justly , and to love mercy , and to walk humbly with thy god ? that without faith it is impossible to please god ; that without holiness none shall see the lord ; that unless we be born again , we can never enter into the kingdom of heaven ; these and such like things are so plain and clear , that it is nothing but mens shutting their eyes against the light can keep them from understanding them ; god intended these things as directions to men ; and is not he able to speak intelligibly when he please ? he that made the tongue , shall he not speak so as to be understood without an infallible interpreter ? especially when it is his design to make known to men the terms of their eternal happiness . will god judge men at the great day for not believing those things which they could not understand ? strange , that ever men should judge the scriptures obscure in matters necessary , when the scripture accounts it so great a judgement for men not to understand them . if our gospel be hid , it is hid to them that are lost : in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not , least the light of the glorious gospel of christ should shine unto them . sure lots door was visible enough , if it were a judgement for the men of sodom not to see it ; and the scriptures then are plain and intelligible enough , if it be so great a judgement not to understand them . . in a powerful and authoritative manner ; as the things contained in scripture do not so much beg acceptance as command it : in that the expressions wherein our duty is concerned , are such as awe mens consciences and pierce to their hearts and to their secret thoughts ; all things are open and naked before this word of god ; every secret of the mind and thought of the heart lyes open to its stroke and force , it is quick and powerful , sharper then a two-edged sword , piercing to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit , and of the joynts and marrow , and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart . the word is a telescope to discover the great luminaries of the world , the truths of highest concernment to the souls of men , and it is such a microscope as discovers to us the smallest atome of our thoughts , and discerns the most secret intent of the heart . and as far as this light reacheth , it comes with power and authority , as it comes armed with the majesty of that god who reveals it , whose authority extends over the soul and conscience of man in its most secret and hidden recesses . . in a pure and unmixed manner ; in all other writings how good soever we have a great mixture of dross and gold together ; here is nothing but pure gold , diamonds without flaws , suns without spots . the most current coynes of the world have their alloyes of baser mettals , there is no such mixture in divine truths ; as they all come from the same author , so they all have the same purity . there is a urim and thumim upon the whole scripture , light and perfection in every part of it . in the philosophers we may meet , it may be , with some scattered fragments of purer mettal , amidst abundance of dross and impure oare ; here we have whole wedges of gold , the same vein of purity and holiness running through the whole book of scriptures . hence it is called the form of sound words ; here have been no hucksters to corrupt and mix their own inventions with divine truths . in an uniform and agreeable manner . this i grant is not sufficient of its self to prove the scriptures to be divine , because all men do not contradict themselves in their writings ; but yet here are some peculiar circumstances to be considered in the agreeableness of the parts of scripture to each other which are not to be found in meer humane writings . . that this doctrine was delivered by persons who lived in different ages and times from each other . usually one age corrects anothers faults , and we are apt to pitty the ignorance of our predecessors , when it may be our posterity may think us as ignorant , as we do them . but in the sacred scripture we read not one age condemning another ; we find light still increasing in the series of times in scripture , but no reflections in any time upon the ignorance , or weakness of the precedent ; the dimmest light was sufficient for its age and was a step to further discovery . quintilian gives it as the reason of the great uncertainty of grammar rules , quia non analogia demissa coelo formam loquendi dedit ; that which he wanted as to grammar , we have as to divine truths ; they are delivered from heaven , and therefore are alwayes uniform and agreeable to each other . . by persons of different interests in the world . god made choice of men of all ranks to be enditers of his oracles , to make it appear it was no matter of state policy or particular interest which was contained in his word , which persons of such different interests could not have agreed in as they do . we have moses , david , solomon , persons of royal rank and quality , and can it be any mean thing , which these think it their glory to be penners of ? we have isaiah , daniel and other persons of the highest education and accomplishments , and can it be any trivial thing which these imploy themselves in ? we have amos , other prophets in the old testament , and the apostles in the new , of the meaner sort of men in the world , yet all these joyn in consort together ; when god tunes their spirits , all agree in the same strain of divine truths , and give light and harmony to each other . . by persons in different places and conditions ; some in prosperity in their own country , some under banishment and adversity , yet all agreeing in the same substance of doctrine ; of which no alteration we see was made either for the flattery of those in power , or for avoiding miseries and calamities . and under all the different dispensations before , under , and after the law , though the management of things was different , yet the doctrine and design was for substance the same in all . all the different dispensations agree in the same common principles of religion ; the same ground of acceptance with god , and obligation to duty was common to all , though the peculiar instances wherein god was served might be different according to the ages of growth in the church of god. so that this great uniformity considered in these circumstances , is an argument that these things came originally from the same spirit , though conveyed through different instruments to the knowledge of the world . . in a perswasive and convincing manner : and that these wayes . . bringing divine truths down to our capacity , cloathing spiritual matter in familiar expressions and similitudes , that so they might have the easier admission into our minds . . propounding things as our interest , which are our duty : thence god so frequently in scripture , recommends our dutyes to us under all those motives which are wont to have the greatest force on the minds of men : and annexeth gracious promises to our performance of them ; and those of the most weighty and concerning things . of grace , favour , protection , deliverance , audience of prayers , and eternal happiness ; and is these will not prevail with men , what motives will ? . courting us to obedience , when he might not only command us to obey , but punish presently for disobedience . hence are all those most pathetical and affectionate strains we read in scripture . o that there were such a heart within them , that they would fear me and keep all my commandments alwayes , that it might go well with them , and with their children after them . wo unto thee o jerusalem , wilt thou not be made clean ? when shall it once be ? turn ye , turn ye from your evil wayes , for why will ye dye , o h●use of israel ? how shall i give thee up , ephraim ? how shall i deliver thee israel ? how shall i make thee as admah ? how shall i set thee as z●boim ? mine heart is turned within me , my repentings are kindled together . o jerusalem , jerusalem , how often would i have gathered thy children together , as a hen gathered her chickens under her wings , and ye would not ? what majesty and yet what sweetness and condescension is there in these expressions ? what obstinacy and rebellion is it in men for them to stand out against god , when he thus comes down from his throne of majesty , and wooes rebellious sinners to return unto him that they may be pardoned . such a matchless and unparalleld strain of rh●torick is there in the scripture , far above the art and insinuations of the most admired orators . thus we see the peculiar excellency of the manner wherein the matters contained in scripture are revealed to us : thus we have considered the excellency of the scripture , as it is a discovery of gods mind to the world . the scriptures may be considered as a rule of life , or as a law of god which is given for the government of the lives of men , and therein the excellency of it lies in the nature of the dutyes , and the encouragements to the practice of them . . in the nature of the dutyes required , which are most becoming god to require , most reasonable for us to perform . . most becoming god to require , as they are most suitable and agreeable to the divine nature , the imitation of which in our actions is the substance of our religion . imitation of him in his goodness and holiness , by our constant endeavours of mortifying sin and growing in grace and piety . in his grace and mercy by our kindness to all men , forgiving the injuries men do unto us , doing good to our greatest enemies . in his justice and equity , by doing as we would be done by , and keeping a conscience void of offence towards god and towards men . the first takes in the dutyes of the first , the other the duties of the second table . all acts of piety towards god , are a part of iustice ; for as tully saith , quid aliud ●st piet as nisi justitia adversus deos ? and so our loving god with our whole bearts , our entire and sincere obedience to his will , is a part of natural justice ; for thereby we do but render unto god that which is his due from us as we are his creatures . we see then the whole duty of man , the fearing god and kee●ing his commandements , is as necessary a part of iustice , as the rendring to every man his own is . . they are most reasonable for us to perform , in that . religion is not only a service of the reasonable faculties which are employed the most in it , the commands of the scripture reaching the heart most , and the service required being a spiritual service , not lying in meats and drinks , or any outward observations , but in a sanctified temper of heart and mind , wh●ch discovers its self in the course of a christians life ; but . the service its self of religion is reasonable ; the commands of the gospel are such , as no mans reason which considers them , can doubt of the excellency of them . all natural worship is founded on the dictates of nature , all instituted worship on gods revealed will ; and it is one of the prime dictates of nature , that god must be uniuersally obeyed . besides , god requires nothing but what is apparently mans interest to do ; god prohibits nothing but what will destroy him if he doth it ; so that the commands of the scriptures are very just and reasonable . . the encouragements are more then proportionable to the difficulty of obedience . gods commands are in themselves easie , and most suitable to our natures . what more rational for a creature then to obey his maker ? all the a●fficulty of religion ariseth from the corruption of nature . now god to encourage men to conquer the difficulties arising thence , hath propounded the strongest motives , and most prevailing arguments to obedience . such are the considerations of gods love and goodness manifested to the world by sending his son into it to die for sinners , and to give them an example which they are to follow , and by his readiness through him to pardon the sins , and accept the persons of such who so receive him as to walk in him ; and by his promises of grace to assist them in the wrestling with the enemies of their salvation . and to all these add that glorious and unconceivable reward which god hath promised to all those who sincerely obey him ; and by these things we see how much the encouragements over-weigh the difficulties , and that none can make the least pretence that there is not motive sufficient to down-weigh the troubles which attend the exercise of obedience to the will of god. so that we see what a peculiar excellency there is in the scriptures as a rule of life , above all the precepts of meer moralists , the foundation of obedience being laid deeper in mans obligation to serve his maker , the practice of obedience being carried higher in those most holy precepts which are in scripture , the reward of obedience being incomparably greater then what men are able to conceive , much less to promise or bestow . the excellency of the scriptures appears as they contain in them a covenant of grace , or the transactions between god and man in order to his eternal happiness . the more memorable any transactions are , the more valuable are any authentick records of them . the scriptures contain in them the magna charta of heaven , an act of pardon with the royal assent of heaven , a proclamation of good-will from god towards men ; and can we then set too great a value on that which contains all the remarkable passages between god and the souls of men , in order to their felicity , from the beginning of the world ? can we think , since there is a god in the world of infinite goodness , that he should suffer all mankind to perish inevitably without his propounding any means for escaping of eternal misery ? is god so good to men as to this present life ; and can we think , if mans soul be immortal , as we have proved it is , that he should wholly neglect any offer of good to men as to their eternal welfare ? or is it possible to imagine that man should be happy in another world without gods promising it , and prescribing conditions in order to it ? if so , then this happiness is no free gift of god , unless he hath the bestowing and promising of it ; and man is no rational agent , unless a reward suppose conditions to be performed in order to the obtaining it ; or man may be bound to conditions which were never required him ; or if they must be required , then there must be a revelation of gods will , whereby he doth require them : and if so , then there are some records extant of the transactions between god and man , in order to his eternal happiness : for what reason can we have to imagine that such records , if once extant , should not continue still , especially since the same goodness of god is engaged to preserve such records , which at first did cause them to be indicted . supposing then such records extant somewhere in the world of these grand transactions between god and mens souls , our business is brought to a period ; for what other records are there in the world that can in the least vye with the scriptures , as to the giving so just an account of all the transactions between god and men from the foundation of the world ? which gives us all the steps , methods , and wayes whereby god hath made known his mind and will to the world , in order to mans eternal salvation . it remains only then that we adore and magnifie the goodness of god in making known his will to us , and that we set a value and esteem on the scriptures , as on the only authentick instruments of that grand charter of peace , which god hath revealed in order to mans eternal happiness . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e de isid. & o●●● . notes for div a -e sect. . gen. . sect. . protrept . p. . gen. . . sect. . in cratylo . in gen. . . oedip. egyp . tom. . class . . cap. . sect. . sect. . object . answ. sect. . sect. . sect. . act. . . sect . sect. . sect. . de 〈◊〉 . c. . sect. . de nat . deor. l. c. . sect. . apad orig. c. cels. l. . p. , sect. . sect. . sect. . sect. . lib. . b●st . p. . ed. port. sect. . strom. . . sect. . sect. . procl . in tim. c. app. l. . hist. l. . v. boch . geogr. p. . l. . c. . apud p●ot biblioth . l. . hist. l. . in theb. l. cent. . prov. . de regno a●t . lib. . cap. . d● idol . l. . ● . . strom. . not. in euseb . chron. n. . geogr. p. . l. . cap. . b. in euseb . n. hist. l . cap. . v. ma●ssacū in harpocr . salmas . in consecrat . templ . p. . sect. . nat. hist. l. . c. . l. . c. . strom. l. . sect. . apud euseb . praep . evang. l. . c. . p. : ed. r. st. sect. . praep. evang . l. . c. . p. . sect. . geogr. sacr . p. . l. . c. . jud. . . sect. . not. in fragm . graec. p. . a●tiq . l. . geogr. l. . hist. nat. l. . c. . sect. . not. in euseb . chr. p. ● . canon . . sag. l. de hist. graec. l. . c. . sect. . sect. . apud euseb . praep. l. . c. . p. . sect. . sect. . de nat . deor. l. . de myst. l. . sect. . gal. l. . c. jal . c. . procl . in tim. p. . iamb . demyst . c. . s. . sap. c. . s. . do hist. graec. l . c. . sect. . not. in gr . euseb. p. . de at . muad. cap. . josh. . , , . he●odd . diod. l. c. . sect. . apud scaliger . pot . gr. p. . sect. . 〈◊〉 . l. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . sect. . i : . bibliosh . setrab . l. . geogr. l. sect. . more nevoch . p. . c. . v. scaliger . cp . ad casaub & cp . gallic . selden . de diis syris . l. . c. . salmas . de an. climac . p. . de jure nat . & gent. l. . c. hist. l. . v. voss. ●dol l. c. . sect. . c. app. l. ● . c. graecor . append. ad l. de emend . temp. sect. . sect. . ● ● sect. . vit. demetrii . apud e●seb . praep . evangcl● l. . sect. . animad . ad num. euseb. . v. scaliger . ib. theo-crit . scho● ad idyll . justin. l. eusch. ●hr . hist. eccl. l. . c. . de hist. g●cc . l. . cap . pag. . sect. . chr. gr. p. oedip. aegypt . to. . synag . . . . ● . celsum l. . a●●not . in mat. exercit. ad . ●aron . . ● . . de emend . temp. l. . sect. . praep. evang . l. . p. . ed. rob. steph. ● . ●caliger the emendat . temp l. . p. . de hist. graec. l. . c. . plin. hist. nat . l. . c. . geogr. l. . sect. . geogr. l. . sympos . de pyth. orac. dissert . in hes. ap . quaest. rom. cap. . sect. . geogr. l. . ● . protreptic . p. . thot . biblioth . cod. . sect . . ep. ad piso● . schol in hesiod . p. . paraenes . . sect . paus. eliac . . diod. bibl . lib. . euseb. praep. l. . act. . sc. . laton . p. . corinth . 〈◊〉 . v. c. rhod. an● lect. l. ● . p. geogr. lib. . enterp . p. . ed. h. st. v. suidam in orphe . sect. . odyss . . sect. geogr. l. . v. casaub. in strab. l. . voss. de hist. graec. l. . c. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . geogr. l. ● . sect. . appion . l. . sect. . sect. . sect. . sect. . g●og . l. . de herod . mal. p. . ● . appion . l. . cano ● . isagog . l . nol. ad num . euseb. ● . sect. . hist l. . c. hist. alexand . l. . geog● . l. . sect. . do emendat . temp. . 〈◊〉 . sect. . saturn . l. . c. . gen. die● . l . c●p 〈◊〉 de origin . error . i , ● . c. 〈◊〉 biblioth . l , . hist. sacr . et exot. a. m. . hist. sac● . 〈◊〉 exotic . p. . sect . l. . polyhist . c. . de civit. dei. l. . c. . l. . biblioth . de idolat . l. . c. . sect. . not. in gr. euseb. p. . d. pearson on the creed . p. . . ●dit . pag. . sect. . ● . app. l. . ocdip . egy. to. . syn● . . c . de aetat . m●●di . cap. . sect . hist. sacr. et exot. a. m. . canon . ●sag . l. . gerard. vos . idol . l. . c. . is. vos . de aet . mundi . c. . sect. . gen. . ● . sect. . vid. boch . geogr. p. . l. . c. . oedip. aegypt . to. . syntag . . c. ● . syntag. . c. . p. . geogr. l. . sect. . l. . c. . ●nterpe . vide scaliger . de emend . temp. l. . p. . de i side et osiri . de idol . l. . c. . de die natali c. . v. petav. de doctr . temp . l. . c. . kircher . oedip. egypt . tom. . class . . cap. . biblioth . ● l. . c. . de sphaera cap. . bibl. l. . cap. . geog. l. . hicroglyph . l. . c. . de idol . l. . c. . de hermet . med. c. . sect. . not. in can. isogog . l. . sect. . de civit. dei l. . c. . il. . de emend . temp . l. . sect. . v. de emend . ●cmp . l. . p. . sect. . dialog . . sect. . sect. . diod. l. . euseb. praep. e● . vang . l. c. . geogr. sacr . p. . l. . c quest. in gen. . sect. . exod. . . d●ut . . . sect. . lib. . ●iblioth● . l. notes for div a -e sect. . hyp. . sect. . josh. . . sect. . hyp. . . . . sect. . sect. . . . . sect. . sect. . c. app. l. . bib. l. . geog. . de sublim . v. vos . de idol . l. . cap. . v. grot. an. deverit . rel . christ. l. . sect. . hyp. . heb. . act. . . sect. . conringius de hermet . medic. c. , , . sect. . saturn . l. . cap. . in somn. scip. l. . c. . cap. . saturn . l. . cap. . l. ● . c. . king. . , , . de magnitud . rom. l. . c. . sect. . vid. arist. metaph. . l. c. . herod . l. . diod. l. . strab. l. . coel. rhodi . l. . c. . sect. . geogr. ● . . de isid. 〈◊〉 osir. lib. . ● not. ia strab. l. . gen. ● . . strom. l. . herod . l. . diod. l. . c. . l. . c. app sect. . de vita mosis . bibliothec. l. . p. . iambl . de vit . pyth. l. . . de vit . pyth. p. . geogr. l. . clem , strom. l. euseb praepar . l. . c. . ●iod . l. . c. , . strab. l. . herod . l. . strom. l. . p. . ed. par natur. hist. lib. . c. . l. . c. . sect. . isa. . , . sect. . sect. . sect. . deut. . , . gen. . . gen. . , , . sect. . sect. . . sect. . object . answ. . . sect. . . . . sect. . deut. . , , . . . . sect. . sect. . v. arabic . vers . & calv. in loc . p. fagium , p. martyr . loc. com. class . . cap. . sect. . c. celsum l. . deu. . . gen. . . josh. . abul . in josh. . c. , & . v. sherlog . antiq. hebr. l. . c. . s. . masius in josh. c. . lev. . . deut. ● . . mal. . . sect. . sam. . . sam. . , . sam. . . v. j●● . in l. sam. . , . sam. . . exercit. sacrae l. x. c. . philo de v. mos. l. . sect. . v. manass. ben. israel . concil . in exod. . . jos. de b●ll . jud. l. . c. . pineda de rebus sol. l. . c. . sect● v. g. ●or . in m●im fundam . leg . c. . sect. . mr. smith of prophecy ch . . more nevoch . l. . c. . pet. . . sam. . . sect. . sam. . . sam . . sect. . apol. c. ep. l. . ep. . conject . in varr. p. ap●d phot. bibl . cod. . geogr. l. . annal. ad a. m. . sect. . sect. . sau● . . , , . sect. . v. maimon . de idol . c. . s. . et ibi v●ssium . sect. . v. except . gem. sanbed . c. . s. . k●ng . . . ie● . . . jer. . . maim . desundam , legis c. . s . v. abarbinel , de cereth . apud buxtorf . de spons . & divort . p. . kings . . ver. . de jejuniis , cap. . sect. . de idololat . c. . s. . ier. . ● . ver. . v. grol . in l. ●t selden . de syn. l. . c. . s. . et l. . c. . s. ier. . . ier. . . luk . . matth. . . matth. . . matth. . . sect . psal. . . gen. . . cor. . . vid. alstedii trisol . proph . p. . sect. . deut. . . . . sect. . . sect. . de fandam . leg . cap. . sect . . de idololat . cap . sect . . deut. . . sect. . psa. . . . . isa. . , . . . ierem. . , , . kings . . vid. jarchi in deut. . . et vorst . ad maim . de sund . cap. . sect . , , . sect. . sect. . . hypoth . king. . . cor. . . sect. . hyp. . . . . . a●t . . — . . . . art . . sect. . hyp. 〈◊〉 sect. . . kings . . . gal. . . isa. . , , . sect. . . conc. tol●t . . c. . isa. . , sect. . . dan. . . sect. . . . . isa. . . . , . sect. . . . sect. . sect. . jonah . . ionah . . sect. . isa. . . vates l. . c. . sect. . gen. . . kings . . de sund . legis cap. . s. . sect. . ibid● . , . sect. . . prop. king. . . kin. . . king . . king. . . king. . . kings . . sect. . de sund . leg●s c. . s. . albo. l. . cap. . numb . . . v. , . ex. . . sect. . sect. . . more nevoch . p. . c. . sect. . . exod. . . numb . . . chron. . . v. selden . de amo civili jud. cap. . chron. . . v. . hos. . . sam. . , . not. in aboav . c. . sèct . . rosh amanana ● . . sect. . ps. . . sect. . deut. . . de sund . leg . c. . s. . ikkarim . l. . c. . sect. . concil . in levil . . . more nevoch . p. . c. . sect. . de verit. rel. christ. l. . s. . sect. . more nevoch . l. . cap. . sect. . lev. . . v. voss. in maim . de idol . c. . phaleg . l. . cap. . lev. . ● . . more nev●ch l. . c. . deu . . v. seld●n de das yris , sy●● . . c●p . lev. . . lev. . . lev. . , . lev. . , . gen. . . more nevoch . p. . cap. . exod. . , . . . lev. . . c. celsum . l. . de verit . rel. christianae l. . sect. . gen. . . gal. . . rom. . , . sect. . psal. . . isa. . . mal. . . zach. . . psal. . , . . ver. . ●sa . . . hag. . . mal. . . dan. . . , . jer. . , . sect. . a●ud orig. l. . sect. . hyp. . sect. . . sèct . . . heb. . . sect. . . . . . . sect. . . sect. . . . . sect. . hyp. . i● fragment . cicer. sect. . hyp. . l. . de div. ● . . 〈◊〉 nat. deorum . de fals . relig . cap. . sect. . hyp. . piadtr . od. . ioh . . heb. . , . sect. . joh. . . joh. . . matth. . . ioh. . . matth. ● . . sect. . hyp. . . sucton . vesp. c. . qu●st . rom. q. . apol. cap. . apql. c. ● sect. . . ciccro de div. l. . . matth. . . . . matth. . . . joh. . . joh. . . . . ioh. . . ioh. . . . . ioh. . . ioh. . . joh. . . ioh. . , . ver . . ver . . ver . . ver . . john . . sect. . . c. judaeos c. . isa. . , v. grot. in joh. . . mat. . . mat. . , . ●oh . . . sect. . . mat. . . de idolatr . l. . c. . mat. . luk. . . lib. . mat. . sect. . orig. c. cels. l. . lib. . pl . cd . ouz . addemetr : s. . de justitia lib. . c. 〈◊〉 apoth●os . de errore pro● . relig . i. . . c. c●ls . mat . . sect. . mark. . . de trad . disc . l. . cont. cels. l. . p. . sect. . mat. . . sect. . luke . , . propyl . agonist . ad oedipum . cap. . sect. . . . joh. . acts . , , . acts . , , , . acts . . acts . , . sect. . joh. ● . . matth. . , , , , . pl. u. phaed. cor . ● . , , . sect. . tertul. ad scapul . c. . apolog. c. . apolog. c. . ad. nationes . l. . c. . apol. c. . sect. . tertul. apol. c. . miautius felix . tertul. ap. cap. . ● ● tertul. a● cap. ● sect. . pet. . . antiq. l. . pag. . acts . . joh. , , . luke . , , . acts . , . acts . . . . ● . . ● . . . , , , . sect. . prop. . prop. . john . . luke . . joh. . . john . , . luke . . . . sect. . prop. . . . cor. . . cor. . . . . c●●sam . p. sect. . cor. . . phil. . . gal. . . joh. . . rom. . . . tim. . . l. . c. cels. in . aen . id . ● cor. . . cor. . , . cor. . , . cor. . . co● . . . cor. . . orig. c. cels. l. . p. . cor. . . hag. . . isa. . . mat. . . act. . . acts . . . . . , . sect. . prop. . mat. . . sect. . prop. . cor. . . cor. . . dialog . cum tryph. p. . ed. par. hist. eccl. l. . c. . euseb. l. . c. . hist. l. . cap. . e●seb . l. . cap. . hist. eccles. l. . c. . lib. . c. . lib. c. . a●g . de doctr . christiana . l. . cap. . sect. . ●polog . ●p . . ●pol . c. . sect. . . arnob. ● . gentes l. ● . c. gentes lib. p. . sect. . tertul. ad nat. l. . cap. . symmach . cp . l. . ep . . liban . oral . de templis . minul . f● lix . p. . arnob. ● . gent. l. . pag. . de nat . deorum l. . lactant. de orig . error . l. . c. . ambros. ep . c. symmach . de orig . err . l. . c. . c. gent. l. . minut. i● octavio . pag. . apolo . c. . observat. in arnob. l. . histor. l. arnob. l. . lact. 〈◊〉 . l. . c. . l●b . . ●p . . apolog. cap. . apud euseb . l. . eccl. hist. cap. . tertul. apol . c. . apud euseb . eccl. hist. l. . cap. . acts . . . . lactant. l. . cap. . plia ep . l. . cp . . tac● . an. l. . sucton . in n● . one . tertal . ap. c. . c. . apol. c. . herold . in tertul. apol. cap. . apol. c. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cor. . , . sect. . . cor. . . orig. l. . c. cels. gal. de d ffer . puls . lib. . c. . sect. . matt● . . . . tit. . . tim. . . cor. . . thes. . , . rom. . . cor. . , . gal. . eph. . , . heb. . . ● joh. . . james . . col. . , . phil. . . mat. . . cor. . . col. . . rom. . . august . de civit. dei , l. . c. . psalm . , , . act. . . cor. . ● . , . thes. . , . c. celsum l. . p. , . lib. . p. . orig. c. cels. l. . p. . orig. l. . p. . orig. l. . p. . 〈◊〉 . ac salf . sap . l. . c. . ●ap . . sect. . ● ● . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . celsam● . . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 ● . . sect. . sect. . matth. . . ● . thes. . john . . 〈◊〉 . . , . . . . . sect. . o●ig . lib. . c cels. tzemach david n. . v. ep . maimon . in not . vorstii ad tzem . dav. sect. . . de s●escript . adv . haeret . cap. . sect. ● chrysosl . in cor. . ●om . . p. . to. . ed. eton. 〈◊〉 . re●g . cap. . de civit. dei l. . cap. . thes. . , . sect. . . deut. . , , . thes. . . sect. . . lib. . c. cels. v. grot. in thes. . in opusc . sect. . matth. ▪ , . sect. . . arnob. c. gentes l. . pag. , , &c. joh. . . gui. ader de morbis evangel . sect. . , exod. . , , . , . . , . . . . . notes for div a -e sect. . heb. . . sect. . de nat. deor. l. ● cap. . de rerum nat. lib. . de nat. d●or . lib. ● . cap. . de nat. deor. lib. ● . cap. . sect. . prop. . sect. . sect. . sect. . sect. . prop. . sect. . . sect. . . sect. . prop. . de nat. deor. l. . sect. . lib. . in v. epic. v. gassend . to. . l. . sect . lib. . de nat. deor. lib. . sect. . sect. . . metaphys . lib. . c. . de nat. deor. l. . de nat. d●or . l. . & de legibus lib. . addend . ad lib. . de idol . p. . v. acost●m lib. . c. . lips. monit . & exempl . politic. sect. . . vid. des cartes metaphys . medi● . & resp. ad object . d. h. more antidote against atheism , lib. . ch . . append. ch . , , . sect. . de nat. dcor . l. . c. . de legilus lib. . sect. . lucret. l. . gassend . to. . lib . sect . . a●●sto● . de pa●t . a●im . l. . sect. . . sect. . hobbs hu● man. nature ch . . sect . . sect. . pres. ad quaest. natur. manil. l . sect. . . disput l. . cap. . v. d. h. mores mystery of godl . l. . ch . , , , . sect. . m●e n●-●●●h . p. . cap. . sect. . aristot. de caelo l. . cap. . de na●● , dcor . l. . cap. . biblioth . l. v. euseb. p●aep . ●vang . l. diog. lacrt. proaem . p. . v. selde● . de jure nat . & geat . apud ebraeos . l. . c. . voss. de sectis philosoph . c. . sect . . v. math●m . hieroglyph . kircheri . to. occlip . aegypt . plutarch . de plac . philos. l. . cap. . sect. . v. thalet . plato i● timaeo . p. . cd . ficini . chalcid . timaeus . p. . ed. meurs . aanot. in l. . deverit . christ. reli. chalcid . in tim. p. . eus●b . praep. evang. l. . cap. . gen. . . 〈◊〉 . in t●m . p. . sceptical chymist . p. . &c. iliad . ξ. odyss . ξ. chalcid . p. . v. meurs . in chal. p. . metaphys . l. . c. . sect. . platon . sophist . p. . ed. fic . sect. . arist. de coelo l. . cap. . v. laert. in vi● . democriti . ocellus lucanus p. . cd . commel . physi● . l. . de nat. l. . de nat. deor. l. . more n●voch . p. . c. . sect. . . de natur. univer . p. . arislot . dogmat . evers . p. . justin. m●rtyr . op . p. . sect. . . de nat. dcor . l. z. sect. . v●lkelius de vera rel . l. . c. . galen de usa part . l. . chalcid . in t●m . p. . origen . philoc. cap. . tertul. ad . hermog . per tot . sect. . de animae procreat . ● timaeo . chalcid . in tim. p. t. . pag. . v. zenon . v. lipsium in physiol . sto. l. . c. . epist. . presat . ad nat quaest. eclog. physic . in tim. p. . sect. . physiol . stoic . l. . c. . vers . hermog . c. . cap. . cap. . orig. philoc . c. . sect. . apud diog. laert. l. . lucret. de nat. l. . praep. evang. l. c. . p ed. r. st. de placitis phil. l. . c. a●not . in senec. de provid . de nut. ret . l. . l●b . . de nat. deor. l. . sect. . d : nat. dear . l. . v. gassendum de logica epicuri . op to. . c. . can. . sect. . . d● generat . anim. exercit. . de nat. deor. l. . de divinat . l. . de finibus lib. . sect. . physic. s. . l . c. . de apparent . magnitud . solis bumilis & sublimis . sp. . sect . . de motu . physic. s. . l. . c. . vep de motu impresse à motore translato . to. . op . sect. . praep. evangel . l. . c. . v des cartes princip . p. . art . , , . history of fluid . and firmness . p. . sect. . physic. s. . l. . c. . de fin. l. de rerum nat . l. . de fin. bon . et mal . lib. . de animae procreat . ● timaeo . tu●nebus in ciceron . de fato . lib. . lib. de fato . sect. . prap. evang . l. . c. . laert. l. . d. h. more antid . against atheism , part . censor . de die nat. c. ● . antholog . l. . c. . sect. . princip . p. . art. . &c. antidote . b. . ch . . immortality of the soul. b. . c. . s. . &c. ep. ad c●rtes . p. ● resp. ad . ep . . h. mori . p. . more nevoch . l. . c. . physic s. . l. . c. . eccl. . . sect. . sect. . diog. laer. l. . disserl . . t●lly de f●aib . l. . de nat . d. or● . . ●lutarch advers . co●●t . sect. . act. . sect. . ●●g . c. cels. l. . p. . comment . in epictet . c. . sect. . . de his qui sero puniuntur a numine . sect. . vid. thom. . p. q. . art . . estium in sentent . l. , dist . . sect. . com. in epict. cap● . p. . pag. . ed. salonasii . sect. . pag. . ● sect. . ●ierocl : in aurea carmina . p. . plat. in pbaed . sect. . plutarch . de isid. & osir. p. . ed. fr. plut. in alex. diog. lac●tius pro. em . ad vit . philosoph . sect. . 〈◊〉 . de heres . c. . sect. . de isid. & osiride . chalcid . in timae . p. . timae● . sect. . chalcid . in tim. p. ● . m●xim . tyrius serm. . seneca de provid c. . prasat . ad natur . quaest . . tertul. ad : . hermog . c. . . . sect. ▪ euseb. eccles . hist. l. . c●p . . h●rony . de script . eccl. de vit . & script . porphyr . c. . plato in epinom . apol. c. . tertul. de a●●ma cap. . de proscript . advers . haeret . cap. . sect. . sect. . . de abstinent . lib . sect. . hierocl . in pythag. carm. p. . hierocles in pythag. p. . sect. . . in aur . carm. p. . . august de civit. d●i l. . c. . sect. . d. casaubon original of temporal evils . plutarch . de isid. & osi● . p. . jamblichus de myster . p. . sect. . . orig c. cels. lib. . antiq. lect . l. . c . euseb. de praep. evang. l. ▪ cap. . apolog. . satyr . . heins . aristarch . p. . ed. . ●●●d . b. . origen . c. cels. l. . p. . sect. . comment in epictet . c. . p. . tully l. . de nat. deor. sect. . plutarch . de his qui sero pu●iuntur à numine p. . ed. fr. luk. . , . plutarch . p. . rev. . . isa. . . plut. p. . sect. . senec. de provid . c. sect . act. . . odyss . v. cor. . , . marke . , . gen. . . . sect. . gen. . . selden . de jure natur . & gent. l. . c. ● . p. sect. . gen. . , . ● gen. . . . sect. . gen. , , . ver. . ver. . gen. . . sect. . hist. of the world. b. c. . sect . . job . gen. . . ●●id . 〈◊〉 . . ●p . phys. sect . . ● . plut. in aemil●n . plin. l. . c. . voss. in pomp. melā l. . c. . p. . &c. v. varenium geogr. general . l. c. prop. sect. . v. gassend . vit . pereskii l. . p. . sect. . gen. . . buteo de arca noe. p. . ho●tus de fabrica arcae noab●● . . sect. . v. grot. annot. in l. . deverit . r lig christ. vo● . isago . chronolog . dissert . . c. . & . bochart . geogr sacr . l. . c. . august . de civit. dei. l. c. . & ibi . lud. viv. euseb. chr. p. . cd . . scaliger . if. voss. epist. ad colvium . pag. . martin . hist. sinic . l. . p. . joh. de lact. de orig . gent. american . l. . p. . gro. annot. ad l. . de verit. ari. montan. phaleg . junius in gen. . bochart . geogr. sacr. p. . sect. . petav. de doctr . temp . l. c . tom. . vsser . annales vet. test. a. m. . castigat . adv . hornium . c. . gen. . petav. de doctrin . temp . l. . c . usser . chronol . sacr. c. . horn. desens . dissert . de aet . mundi . . . proleg . ad bibl . polyglot . cap. . s. , , &c. isaac vossius de lxx . i●●●rp . & 〈◊〉 . history of the world. p. . b. . c. . s●ct . . sect. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . schol. 〈◊〉 arist. acharn●ns . stephanus de 〈◊〉 . v. 〈◊〉 . hom. l. u. dio●●●●u . . ar. montan . phaleg . ● . . bochart . phal●g . l. . cap. . sect. . geogr. l. . v. cho isst . in apollonium l. . v. . geogr. l. . in arcad. strabo . l. lib. . in imag● sect. . de hellen. p. . sect. . grot. not . in lib. . de jur . b●l . &c. cap. . sal●de hellen . gen. . , . d● seyth●s . ep . ad . 〈◊〉 . & 〈◊〉 . sect. . lib. . lib. . lib. . o●ly 〈◊〉 . . de phoen. col. l. . c. . lib. . c. . geogr. p. . l. . c. . lib. . c. . de spect . c. . lib. . c. . lib. . de idol . l. . c. . a●not . in mat. . . sect. . machab. . antiq. l. . c. . de idol . l. . c. . achar●ens . act. . sc. geogr. l. . de phoeni● . col. l. . c. . canon . . sag. p. . gen. . ● , . vi grotium joh. de la●● , horn. de orig. gent. american . v. manass● be● israel . spes israelis . et spizzel . dc israeli●is america●is . sect. . sect. . book c . sect. . sect. . v. mer. casaub . de . linguis . p. . &c. exercit. in cordan . . sect . . diatrib . de l. heb. p. , . pag. . sect. . aan●t . in gen. . , . enquiries . cap. , . metned . hist. cap. . may●r . p. odr . chalda●sm . c. . ●oca . g●or . l. . c. . 〈◊〉 dia● . sect . . 〈◊〉 . diat . sect . . ●●ps . cent . . ep . . busbeq . ●p . . mayer . philol. sacr . p. . c. . sect. . . stromat . . c. cels. l. . apollod . bibliot● . lib. . p. ● apu l cyril . c. julian . lib. . strom. l. . gen. . . apud euseb . praep. evang l . gen . . . phal●g . l. . cap. . canaan . l. . cap. . canaan cap. . sect. . . de idol l. . cice. o l. . de natur. d. steph. v. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . sect. . v. scaliger . not . in fr. graec. selden . de diis syris . bochart . cana. l. . c. . de idol . l. . cap. . tacit. de mor. b. german . stephanus v. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . apolog. c. . voss. de idol . l. . cap. . gen. . . . . sect. . phal●g . l. . cap : ● . biblioth . l. v mayer . philol. sacr . p. . c. . biblioth . l. philostr . c. sect. . voss. dcidol . l. . c. . boch . phaleg . l. . c. . cap. . de idol . l. . c. . v. scaliger . not . ad sr . gr. grot. in deut cr . c. . v. . voss. de ido . l. . c. . gen. . . de phenic . col . l. . c. . heb. . joseph . antiq l. . c . euseb. prep . evang. l. . cap. . sect. . callimach . hymn . in apollo . gen. . scalig. not . in sr . gr. bochart . can. l. . c. seld. dcdiis svris . v. heins . in clem. alex. str. . casaub. ad theophr . p. . herald . ad arnob. l. . colvium ad apul. florid. ouzel . ot elmenhorst . ad minuci . de idolola . l. . c. . gen. . . sect. . de idol . l. . c. . dion . l. . bibl. l. . canaan . l. . cap. . de idol . l. c. . p. . p. . de dcor . c● 〈◊〉 . eliac●ōv . . p. . sect. . sect. . sect. . sect. . tim. . . cor. . . sect. . cor. . , . rom. . . act. . luke . . ● , . sect. ● . sect. . . book . ch . . sect . , , . . c. cels. l. . p. . sect. . . cor. . , . heb. . , . tim. . . sect. . quintil. l. . c. . deut. . . ●er . . ezek. . . hos. . s. mat. . sict . . . sect. . an answer to some papers lately printed concerning the authority of the catholick church in matters of faith, and the reformation of the church of england stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an answer to some papers lately printed concerning the authority of the catholick church in matters of faith, and the reformation of the church of england stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for ric. chiswel ..., london : . written by edward stillingfleet. cf. nuc pre- . advertisement on p. 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -- controversial literature. church of england -- doctrines. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion imprimatur . z. isham r. p. d. hen. episc. lond. à sacris . . an answer to some papers lately printed , concerning the authority of the catholick church in matters of faith , and the reformation of the church of england . london , printed for ric. chiswel at the rose and crown in s t paul's church-yard . mdclxxxvi . an advertisement . if the papers , here answered , had not been so publickly dispersed through the nation , a due respect to the name they bear , would have kept the author from publishing any answer to them . but because they may now fall into many hands , who without some assistance may not readily resolve some difficulties started by them , he thought it not unbecoming his duty to god and the king , to give a clearer light to the things contained in them . and it can be no reflection on the authority of a prince , for a private subject to examine a piece of coyn as to its just value , though it bears his image and superscription upon it . in matters that concern faith and salvation , we must prove all things , and hold fast that which is good . an answer to the first paper . if all men could believe as they pleased , i should not have fail'd of satisfaction in this first paper ; the design of it being to put an end to particular disputes ; to which i am so little a friend , that i could have been glad to have found , as much reason in it to convince , as i saw there was a fair appearance to deceive . but there is a law in our minds distinct from that of our inclinations ; and out of a just and due regard to that , we must examine the most plausible writings , though back'd with the greatest authority , before we yield our assent unto them . if particular controversies about matters of faith could be ended by a principle , as visible as that the scripture is in print , all men of sence would soon give over disputing ; for none who dare believe what they see , can call that in question . but what if the church , whose authority , it is said , they must submit to , will not allow them to believe what they see ? how then can this be a sufficient reason to perswade them to believe the church , because it is as visible as that the scripture is in print ? unless we must only use our senses to find out the church , and renounce them assoon as we have done it . which is a very bad requital of them , and no great honour to the church which requires it . but with all due submission , it is no more visible that the roman church is the catholick church , than it is , that a part is the whole , and the most corrupt part , that one church , which christ hath here upon earth . it is agreed among all christians , that christ can have but one church upon earth , as there is but one lord , one faith , one baptism . and this is that church we profess to believe in the two creeds . but if those , who made those creeds for our direction , had intended the roman catholick church , why was it not so expressed ? how came it to pass that such a limitation of the sense of christs catholick church to the roman , should never be put to persons to be baptized in any age of the church ? for i do not find in the office of baptism , even in the roman church , that it is required that they believe the roman catholick church , or that they deny the validity of baptism out of the communion of the roman church . from whence it is to me as visible as that the scripture is in print , that the church of rome it self doth not believe that it is , the one catholick church mentioned in the two creeds . for then it must void all baptism out of its communion , which it hath never yet done . and as long as baptism doth enter persons into the catholick church , it is impossible , that all who have the true form of baptism , though out of the communion of the roman church , should be members of the catholick church , and yet the communion of the roman and catholick be all one ; as it must be if the roman church , be the catholick and apostolick church professed in the creeds . if we had been so happy to have lived in those blessed times , when the multitude of them that believed were of one heart , and of one soul , it had been no difficulty to have shewed that one visible church , which christ had here upon earth . but they must be great strangers to the history of the church , who have not heard of the early and great divisions in the communion of it . and there was a remarkable difference in the nature of those schisms , which happened in the church ; which being not considered hath been the occasion of great misaplication of the sayings of the antients about the one catholick church . some did so break off communion with other parts of the catholick church , as to challenge that title wholly to themselves ; as was evident in the case of the novatians and donatists ; for they rebaptiz'd all that embraced their communion . others were cast out of communion upon particular differences ; which were not supposed to be of such a nature , as to make them no members of the catholick church . so the bishops of rome excommunicated the bishops of asia for not keeping easter when they did ; and the bishops both of asia and africa , for not allowing the baptism of hereticks . but is it reasonable to suppose , that upon these differences they shut out all those holy bishops and martyrs from the possibility of salvation , by excluding them from their communion ? if not , then there may be different communions among christians , which may still continue parts of the catholick church ; and consequently no one member of such a division ought to assume to it self the title and authority of the one catholick church . but if any one part doth so , though never so great and conspicuos , it is guilty of the same presumption with the novatians and donatists , and is as much cause of the schisms , which happen thereupon in the church , as they were . for a long time before the reformation , there had been great and considerable breaches , between the eastern and western churches ; insomuch that they did renounce each other communion . and in these differences four patriarchal churches joined together against the fifth , viz. that of the bishop of rome . but the eastern patriarchs sinking in their power , by the horrible invasion of the enemies of the christian faith ; and the bishops of rome advancing themselves to so much authority , by the advantages they took from the kindness of some princes , and the weakness of others , they would hear of no other terms of accommodation with the eastern churches , but by an intire submission to the pope as head of the catholick church . which all the churches of the east refused , however different among themselves ; and to this day look on the pope's supremacy as an innovation in the church , and usurpation on the rights of the other patriarchs and bishops . in all those churches the two creeds are professed , true baptism administred , and an undoubted succession of bishops from the apostles ; how then come they to be excluded from being parts of the one catholick and apostolick church ? and if they be not excluded , how can the roman church assume to it self that glorious title ? so that it seems to me as visible as that the scripture is in print , that the roman church neither is , nor can be that one church , which christ left upon earth . and this principle being removed ( which ought to be taken for granted , since it can never be proved ) we must unavoidably enter into the ocean of particular disputes . and i know no reason any can have to be so afraid of it , since we have so sure a compass , as the holy scripture to direct our passage . but the reason of avoiding particular disputes is , because the evidence is too clear in them , that the church of rome hath notoriously deviated from this infallible rule . and it is as impossible for a church , which hath erred , to be infallible , as for a church really infallible , to err . but if a church pretend to prove her infallibility by texts , which are not so clear , as those which prove her to have actually erred ; then we have greater reason to recede from her errors , than to be deceived with such a fallible pretence to infallibility . well! but it is not left to every phantastical mans head to believe as he pleases , but to the church . and is it indeed left to the church to believe as it pleases ? but the meaning i suppose is , that those , who reject the the authority of the roman catholick church , do leave every man to believe according to his own fancy . certainly those of the church of england , cannot be liable to any imputaion of this nature . for our church receives the three creeds , and embraces the four general councils , and professes to hold nothing contrary to any universal tradition of the church from the apostles times . and we have often offered to put the controversies between us and the church of rome upon that issue . and do not those rather believe as they please , who believe the roman church to be the catholick church , without any colour from scriptures , antiquity or reason ? do not those believe as they please , who can believe against the most convincing evidence of their own senses ? do not those believe as they please , who can reconcile the lawfulness of the worship of images , with gods forbidding it , the communion in one kind with christ's institution , and the praying in an unknown tongue with the ch. of the first epistle to the corinthians ? but all these and many other absurdities may go down by vertue of the churches authority , to whom , it is said , christ left the power upon earth to govern us in matters of faith. we do not deny that the church hath authority of declaring matters of faith , or else it never could have condemn'd the antient heresies . but then we must consider the difference between the universal church in a general and free council , declaring the sense of scripture in articles of faith , generally received in the christian church from the apostles times , as was done when the nicene creed was made ; and a faction in the church assuming to it self the title of catholick , and proceeding by other rules , than the first councils did , and imposing new opinions and practices , as things necessary to the communion of the catholick church . and this is the true point in difference between us , and those of the roman church about the churches authority in matters of faith , since the council of trent . for we think we have very great reason to complain , when a party in the church , the most corrupt and obnoxious , takes upon it self to define many new doctrines , as necessary points of faith , which have neither scripture , nor universal tradition for them . it were a very irrational thing , we are told , to make laws for a country , and leave it to the inhabitants to be interpreters and iudges of those laws ; for then every man will be his own iudge , and by consequence no such thing , as either right or wrong . but is it not as irrational to allow an usurper to interpret the laws to his own advantage , against the just title of the prince , and the true interest of the people ? and if it be not reasonable for any private person to be his own iudge , why should a publick invader be so ? but we hope it will be allowed to the loyal inhabitants of a country , so far to interpret the laws , as to be able to understand the duty they owe to their king , and to justifie his right against all the pretences of usurpers . and this is as much as we plead for in this case . can we therefore suppose , that god almighty would leave us at those uncertainties , as to give us a rule to go by , and leave every man to be his own iudge ? and can we resonably suppose , that god almighty should give as a rule not capable of being understood by those to whom it was given , in order to the great end of it , viz. the saving of their souls ? for this was the main end of the rule , to direct us in the way to heaven , and not meerly to determine controversies . the staff , which a man uses , may serve to measure things by , but the principal design is to walk with it . so it is with the holy scripture , if controversies arise : it is fit to examine and compare them with this infallible rule ; but when that is done , to help us in our way to heaven is that which it was chiefly intended for . and no man can think it of equal consequence to him , not to be mistaken , and not to be damned . in matters of good and evil , every mans conscience is his immediate judge , and why not in matters of truth and falshood ? unless we suppose mens involuntary mistakes to be more dangerous than their wilful sins . but after all , we do not leave every man to be his own iudge , any further than it concerns his own salvation , which depends upon his particular care and sincerity . for to prevent any dangerous mistakes by the artifice of seducers , we do allow the assistance of those spiritual guides , which god hath appointed in his church , for the better insturcting and governing private persons : we embrace the ancient creeds , as a summary comprehension of the articles of faith ; and think no man ought to follow his own particular fancy against doctrines so universally received in the christian church , from the apostles times . i do ask any ingenuous man , whether it be not the same thing to follow our own fancy , or to interpret scripture by it . if we allowed no creeds , no fathers , no councils , there might have been some colour for such a question . but do we permit men to interpret scripture according to their own fancy , who live in a church , which owns the doctrine of the primitive church more frankly and ingenuously , than any church in the world besides , without setting up any private spirit against it , or the present roman church to be the interpreter of it . and now i hope i may have leave to ask some questions of any ingenuous man ; as , whether it be not the same thing for the church of rome to make the rule , as to assume to it self the fole power of giving the sense of it ? for what can a rule signifie without the sense ? and if this were the intention of almighty god , had it not been as necessary to have told us , to whom he had given the power of interpreting the rule , as to have given the rule it self ? whether it be reasonable for the church of rome , to interpret those texts , wherein this power of interpreting , is to be contained ? for this is to make it iudge in its own cause , which was thought an absurdity before . and whether it be not as mischievous to allow a prosperous usurper the power of interpreting laws , according to his own interest , as any private person , according to his own fancy ? whether it be possible to reform disorders in the church , when the person principally accused is supream judge ? whether those can be indifferent judges in councils , who before-hand take an oath , to defend that authority which is to be debated ? whether tradition be not as uncertain a rule , as fancy , when men judge of tradition according to their fancy ? i would have any man shew me , where the power of deciding matters of faith is given to every particular man. if by deciding matters of faith be understood the determining them in such a manner , as to oblige others , i do not know where it is given to every particular man , nor how it should be . for then every particular man would have a power over every particular man ; and there would want a new decision , whose should take place . but if by deciding matters of faith , no more be meant , but every mans being satisfied of the reasons , why he believes one thing to be true , and not another ; that belongs to every man , as he is bound to take care of his soul , and must give an account both to god and man of the reason of his faith. and what can be meant in scripture by proving all things , and holding fast that which is good , thess. . . by trying the spirits , whether they be of god , john . . by judging of themselves what is right , luke . . unless god had given to mankind a faculty of discerning truth and falshood in matters of faith. but if every man hath not such a power , how comes he to be satisfied about the churches autority ? is not that a matter of faith ? and where ever any person will shew me , that every man hath a power to determine his faith in that matter , i 'le undertake to shew him the rest . christ left his power to his church ▪ even to forgive sins in heaven , and left his spirit with them , which they exercised after his resurrection . but where then was the roman-catholick church ? and how can it be hence inferred , that these powers are now in the church of rome , exclusive to all others , unless it be made appear that it was heir-general to all the apostles ? i suppose it will be granted , that the apostles had some gifts of the spirit , which the church of rome will not in modesty pretend to ; such as the gift of tongues , the spirit of discerning , prophesie , miraculous cures and punishments . now , here lyes the difficulty , to shew what part of the promise of the infallible spirit ( for the ordinary power of the keys relates not to this matter ) was to expire with the apostles , and what was to be continued to the church in all ages . a promise of divine assistance is denied by none but pelagians : but how far that extends , is the question . in the souls of good men it is so as to keep them in the way to heaven , but not to prevent any lapse into sin ; and it were worth our knowing , where god hath ever promised to keep any men more from error , than from sin. doth he hate one more than the other ? is one more disagreeing to the christian doctrine than the other ? how came then so much to be said for the keeping men from error , when at the same time , they confess they may not only commit great sins , but err very dangerously in the most solemn manner , in what relates to the doctrine of manners . would any have believed the apostles infallible , if they had known them to be persons of ill lives ; or that they had notoriously erred in some rules of great consequence to the welfare of mankind ? now , all this is freely yielded , as to the pretence of infallibility in the church of rome . it is granted , that the guides of that church have been very bad men ; and that in councils they have frequently erred about the deposing power , being only a matter of practice , and not of faith. whether it be so or not , i now dispute not ; but it is granted , that notwithstanding this infallible spirit , the roman church may grosly err in a matter of mighty consequence to the peace of christendom ; and yet it cannot err in decreeing the least matters of faith. as for instance , it can by no means err about the seven sacraments , or the intention of the priest about them ; but it may err about deposing princes , and absolving subjects from their allegiance : which in easier terms is , they can never err about their own interest , but they may about any other whatsoever . i pass over the next paragraph , the sense being imperfect , and what is material about the creeds , hath been spoken to already . that which next deserves consideration , is , that the church was the iudge even of the scripture it self , many years after the apostles , which books were canonical , and which were not . we have a distinction among us of iudges of the law and iudges of the fact : the one declare what the law is , the fact being supposed ; the other gives judgment upon the fact , as it appears before them . now in this case about the canonical books , the church is not judge of the law. for they are not to declare whether a book appearing to be canonical ought by it to be received for canonical ; ( which is taken for granted among all christians ) but all they have to do , is to give judgment upon the matter of fact , i. e. whether it appear upon sufficient evidence to have been a book written by divine inspiration . and the church of rome hath no particular priviledge in this matter , but gives its judgment as other parts of the christian world do : and if it takes upon it to judge contrary to the general sense of the christian church , we are not to be concluded by it ; but an appeal lyes to a greater tribunal of the universal church . and if they had this power , then i desire to know , how they came to lose it ? who are meant by they ? and what is understood by this power ? it is one thing for a part of the church to give testimony to a matter of fact , and another to assume the power of making books canonical , which were not so . this latter no church in the world hath , and therefore can never lose it . the former is only matter of testimony , and all parts of the church are concerned in it , and it depends as other matters of fact do , on the skill and fidelity of the reporters . and by what autority men separate themselves from that church ? what church ? the catholick and apostolick ? we own no separation from that ; but we are dis-joyned from the communion of the roman church , that we may keep up the stricter union with the truly catholick and apostolick church . and this is no separating our selves , but being cast out by an usurping faction in the church ; because we would not submit to the unreasonable conditions of communion imposed by it ; the chief whereof is owning all the usurpation , which hath by degrees been brought into it . to make this plain by an example : suppose a prosperous usurper in this kingdom had gained a considerable interest in it , and challenged a title to the whole , and therefore required of all the kings subjects , within his power , to own him to be rightful king : upon this , many of them are forced to withdraw , because they will not own his title : is this an act of rebellion , and not rather of true loyalty ? schism in the church is like rebellion in the state. the pope declares himself head of the catholick church , and hath formed himself a kind of spiritual kingdom in the west ; although the other parts of the christian world declare against it , as an usurpation . however , he goes on , and makes the owning his power a necessary condition of being of his communion . this many of the western parts , as well as eastern , disown and reject , and therefore are excluded communion with that church , whereof he is owned to be the head. the question now is , who gives the occasion to this separation ? whether the pope , by requiring the owning his usurpation , or we , by declaring against it ? now , if the conditions , he requires , be unjust and unreasonable ; if his autority , he challenges , over the catholick church , be a meer usurpation ( for which we have not only the consent of the other parts of the christian world , but of scripture and the ancient church ) then we are not to be condemned , for such a separation , which was unavoidable , if we would not comply with the pope's usurpation . and upon this foot the controversie about schism stands between us and the church of rome . the only pretence i ever heard of , was , because the church hath fail'd in wresting and interpreting the scripture contrary to the true sense and meaning of it ; and that they have imposed articles of faith upon us , which are not to be warranted by gods word . i do desire to know who is to be iudge of that , whether the whole church , the succession whereof hath continued to this day without interruption ; or particular men , who have raised schisms for their own advantage . the whole force of this paragraph depends upon a supposition , which is taken for granted , but will never be yielded by us , and we are sure can never be proved by those of the church of rome , viz. that in the new imposed articles , the whole church in a continued succession hath been of the same judgment with them , and only some few particular men in these last ages have opposed them . whereas the great thing we insist upon next to the holy scripture , is , that they can never prove the points in diference , by an universal tradition from the apostles times , either as to the papal supremacy , or the other articles defined by the council of trent . vve do not take upon our selves to contradict the universal sense of the christian church from the apostles times in any one point . but the true reason of the proceeding of the church of england was this . vvhile the popes authority was here received and obeyed , there was no liberty of searching into abuses , or the ways of reforming them . but when men were encouraged to look into the scripture , and fathers , and councils , they soon found the state of things in the church extreamly altered from what they ought to have been , or had been in the primitive church : but they saw no possibility of redress , as long as the popes autority was so absolute and inviolable . this therefore in the first place they set themselves to the accurate examination of , and the result was , that they could find it neither in the scriptures , nor fathers , nor councils , nor owned by the eastern churches : and therefore they concluded it ought to be laid aside , as an usurpation . our church being by this means set free ( even with the consent of those , who joyned with the church of rome in other things ) a greater liberty was then used in examining particular doctrines and practices , which had crept into the church by degrees , when ignorance and barbarism prevail'd ; and having finish'd this enquiry , articles of religion were drawn up , wherein the sense of our church was delivered , agreeable to scripture and antiquity , though different from the modern church of rome ; and these articles are not the private sense of particular men , but the publick standard whereby the world may judge , what we believe and practise ; and therefore these are the sense of our church , and not the opinions or fancies of particular men. and those who call the retrenching the popes exorbitant power by the name of schism , must by parity of reason call the casting off an usurper rebellion . but certainly those who consider the mighty advantages and priviledges of the clergy in the church of rome , can never reasonably suspect any of that order should hope to better themselves by the reformation . and if we judge of mens actings by their interest , one of the most surprising considerations at this day is , that the clergy should be against , and princes for the church of rome . an answer to the second paper . it is a sad thing to consider , what a world of heresies are crept into this nation . but is it not a strange thing to consider , that no distinction is here put between the religion by law established , and the parties disowned by it , and dissenting from it ? and yet many of these , though justly liable to the charge of schism , embrace no heresies against the four or six first general councils . but if the dissenters were guilty of never so many heresies , how comes the church of england to bear the blame of them ; when the weakning its power and authority was the occasion of such an overflowing of schisms and heresies among us ? and it is indeed a sad thing to consider how many ways and means have been used by all parties to introduce and keep up schisms and divisions amongst us , and then how the church of england is blamed for not being able to suppress them . but if all doctrines opposite to the church of rome be accounted heresies , then we desire to be informed , how the church of rome came to have this power of defining heretical doctrines ; or how any doctrine comes to be heresie by being contrary to its definitions . for heresie is an obstinate opposing some necessary article of faith. it must therefore be proved , that what the church of rome declares , doth thereby become a necessary article of faith , or it is very unreasonable to lay the imputation of heresie upon us . and this can never be maintained , without proving that the church of rome hath a power to make doctrines not necessary before , to become necessary by her definition : which is the same thing with making new articles of faith. but these can never be proved to be such by universal tradition ; which the church of rome pretends for all her articles of faith. every man thinks himself as competent a iudge of scripture , as the very apostles themselves . doth every man among us pretend to an infallible spirit ? and yet every man owns that the apostles had it . but what is meant by being a iudge of scripture ? if no more be understood , then that every man must use his understanding about it , i hope this is no crime nor heresie . the scripture must be believed in order to salvation , and therefore it must be understood ; for how can a man believe , what he understands not the sense or meaning of ? if he must understand the sense he must be iudge of the sense ; so that every man , who is bound to believe the scripture in order to his salvation , must be judge of the sense of the scripture , so far as concerns his salvation . but if by being a iudge of the scripture be meant giving such a judgment , as obliges others to submit to it , then among us no particular man doth pretend to be a competent iudge of scripture , so as to bind others to rely upon his authority in expounding scripture . we own the authority of guides in the church , and a due submission to them , but we do not allow them to be as competent iudges of scripture as the very apostles . and 't is no wonder it should be so , since that part of the nation , which looks most like a church , dares not bring the true arguments against the other sects , for fear they should be turned against themselves , and confuted by their own arguments . this is directly level'd against the church of england , which is hereby charged with insincerity or weakness in dealing with the dissenters . but we must consider the meaning of this charge . it is no wonder it should be so , i. e. that every man should think himself as competent a iudge of scripture , as the very apostles , because the church of england dares not use the true arguments against the sects . whence it appears that this true argument is the churches infallible authority , and the obligation of all members of the church to submit their judgments intirely thereto . i confess that if the church of england did pretend to this against the sectaries , they might justly turn it against her ; because in our articles , though the churches authority be asserted , yet infallibility is denyed . if there can be no authority in a church , without infallibility ; or there can be no obligation to submit to authority , without it , then the church of england doth not use the best arguments against sectaries . but if there be no ground for infallibility , if the church which hath most pretended to it , hath been most grosly deceived ; if the heads of that church have been not barely suspected of heresie , but one of them stands condemned for it in three general councils , own'd by that church ; then for all that i can see , the church of england hath wisely disowned the pretence of infallibility , and made use of the best arguments against sectaries from a just authority , and the sinfulness and folly of the sectaries refusing to submit to it . the church of england ( as 't is called ) would fain have it thought , that they are the iudges in matters spiritual , yet dare not say positively , there is no appeal from them . is not the church of england really what it is called ? i would fain know what it wants to make it as good a church , as any in the christian world ? it wants neither faith ( if the creed contain it ) nor sacraments , ( and those entire ) nor succession of bishops , ( as certain as rome it self ) nor a liturgy , ( more agreeing to primitive worship , then is any where else to be found . ) why then the church of england , as 't is called ? well! but what is this church now blamed for ? they pretend to be iudges in matters spiritual , and yet dare not say there is no appeal from them . how then ? are there no true judges , but such as there lies no appeal from ? there lies an appeal from any judges in the kings courts to the court of parliament ; are they not therefore true judges in westminster-hall ? there lay an appeal from bishops to metropolitans , from them to patriarchs , from patriarchs to general councils , according to the antient polity of the church . were there therefore no true judges , but general councils ? what follows relating to the churches authority , and every mans following his own judgment , hath been answered already . i proceed therefore , to what further concerns this matter of appeal . what country can subsist in quiet , where there is not a supreme iudge , from whence there can be no appeal ? the natural consequence from hence appears to be , that every national church ought to have the supream power within it self . but how come appeals to a foreign jurisdiction to tend to the peace and quiet of a church ? they have been always complained of in the best ages of the church , and by the best men ; such as s. cyprian , and s. augustine , and the whole african churches . the worst men began them , and the worst church encouraged them , without regard to the peace of the christian church , so it increased its own grandeur by them . we have had these hundred years past , the sad effects of denying to the church , that power in matters spiritual , without an appeal . and our ancestors for many hundred years last past , found the intolerable inconveniencies of an appeal to foreign jurisdiction . whereby the nation was exhausted , justice obstructed , the clergy oppressed , and the kings prerogative greatly diminished . but these were slight things in comparison to what we have felt these hundred years past for want of it . have not the kings courts been open for matters of law and justice , which have been fill'd with men of as great abilities and integrity , since the reformation , as ever they were before ? hath not the appeal to the king in his high court of chancery been as much for the king and people , as ever the appeal was to the court of rome ? have not all the neighbour princes been forced for the preserving their own dignity to set bounds and limits to appeals to rome , and to orders or bulls that come from thence ? how then comes the want of such an appeal to be thought to produce such sad effects here ? all christendom groans under the sad effects of them ; and it is a very self-denying humour for those to be most sensible of the want of them , who would really suffer the most by them . can there be any iustice done , where the offenders are their own iudges , and equal interpreters of the law , with those that are appointed to admister iustice ? and is there any likelihood , justice should be better done in another country , by another authority , and proceeding by such rules , which in the last resort , are but the arbitrary will of a stranger . and must such a one , pretending to a power he hath no right to , be iudge in his own cause , when he is the greatest offender himself ? but how is this applied to the protestants in england ? this is our case , here in england , in matters spiritual ; for the protestants are not of the church of england , as 't is the true church , from whence there can be no appeal ; but because the discipline of that church is conformable at present to their fancies ; which , as soon as it shall contradict or vary from , they are ready to embrace or joyn with the next congregation of people , whose discipline or worship agrees with the opinion of that time. the sense of this period is not so clear , but that one may easily mistake about it . that which is aimed at , is , that we of the church of england , have no tie upon us , but that of our own judgments ; and when that changes , we may join with independents or presbyterians , as we do now with the church of england . and what security can be greater , than that of our judgments ? if it be said to be nothing , but fancy and no true iudgment , we must beg leave to say , that we dare appeal to the world , whether we have not made it appear , that it is not fancy , but iudgment which hath made us firm to the church of england . might it not as well have been said , that the protestants of the church of england , adhered to the crown in the times of rebellion out of fancy , and not out of iudgment ? and that if their fancy changed , they might as well have joined with the rebels ? will not this way of reasoning hold as strongly against those of the church of rome ? for why do any adhere to that , but because it is agreeable to their judgment so to do ? what evidence can they give , that it is iudgment in them , and only fancy in us ? if reason must be that which puts the difference , we do not question , but to make ours appear to be iudgment , and theirs fancy ? for what is an infallible iudge , which christ never appointed , but fancy ? what is their unwritten word , as a rule of faith to be equally received with the scriptures , but fancy ? what is giving honour to god by the worship of images , but fancy ? what is making mediators of intercession , besides the mediator of redemption , but fancy ? what is the doctrine of concomitancy , to make amends for half the sacrament , but fancy ? what is the substantial change of the elements into the body of christ , but fancy ? for both senses and reason are against it . what is the deliverance of souls out of purgatory , by masses for the dead , but meer fancy ? but i forbear giving any more instances . so that according to this doctrine , there is no other church nor interpreter of scripture , but that which lies in every man 's giddy brain . let mens brains be as giddy , as they are said to be , for all that i can see , they are the best faculties they can make use of , for the understanding of scripture , or any thing else . and is there any infallible church upon earth , which must not be beholding to mens giddy brains for believing it ? and it may be , never the less giddy for doing it ? for god-sake why do any men take the church of rome to be infallible ? is it not , because their understandings tell them they ought so to do ? so that by this consequence , there is no infallible church , but what lies in every mans giddy brain . i desire to know therefore of every serious considerer of these things , whether the great work of our salvation ought to depend on such a sandy foundation as this ? i thank god i have seriously considered this matter , and must declare that i find no christian church built on a more sandy foundation , than that , which pretends to be setled upon a rock ; i mean , so far as it imposes the new faith of trent , as a necessary condition of salvation . had we no other reason to embrace christianity , than such as they offer for these new doctrines , i am much afraid christianity it self , to all inquisitive men , would be thought to have but a sandy foundation . but what is this sandy foundation we build upon ? every man 's private judgment in religion ? no understanding man builds upon his own judgment , but no man of understanding can believe without it . for i appeal to any ingenious man , whether he doth not as much build upon his own judgment , who chuseth the church , as he that chuseth scripture for his rule ? and he that chuseth the church , hath many more difficulties to conquer than the other hath . for the church can never be a rule without the scriptures , but the scriptures may without the church . and it is no such easy matter to find the churches infallibility in the scripture . but suppose that be found , he hath yet a harder point to get over , viz. how the promises relating to the church in general , came to be appropriated to the church of rome . which a man must have an admirable faculty at discerning , who can find it out , either in scripture , or the records of the ancient church . the places of scripture which are brought about christ's being with his church to the end of the world , about the power to forgive sins ; about the clergy being god's labourers , husbandry , building , having the mind of christ ; do as effectually prove infallibility of the church of england , as the church of rome ; for i cannot discern the least inclination in any of them to favour one against the other . and pray consider on the other side , that those who resist the truth , and will not submit to his church , draw their arguments from implications , and far-fetch'd interpretations , at the same time that they deny plain and positive words : which is so great a disingenuity , that 't is not almost to be thought that they can believe themselves . this is a very heavy charge ; to resist the truth , to deny plain and positive words of scripture ; to be guilty of great disingenuity , so as not to believe our selves , are faults of so high a nature , as must argue not only a bad cause , but a very bad mind . and god forbid , that those of the church of england , should ever be found guilty of these things . but to come to particulars ; is it resisting truth , or arguing from implications , and denying plain and positive words of scripture , to say , we must not worship images ; we must make god alone the object of holy worship ; we must give the eucharist in both kinds according to christ's express institution ; we must understand our prayers , when st. paul's words are so clear about it ? so far at least we have plain and positive words of scripture on our side . and for implications , and far fetch'd interpretations , commend me to the pope's bulls , especially when they have a mind to prove their authority from scripture ; which they can do from in the beginning , to the end of the apocalypse . but that which seems to be aimed at here , is , this is my body ; wherein the words seem to be plain and positive on their side , and our sense to be from implications , or far-fetched interpretations . to which i answer , that there are expressions in scripture as plain and positive as this , which none think themselves bound to understand in their literal sense . for then we must all believe , that god hath eyes and ears , a face , hands and feet , as firmly , as that the bread was then turned into christ's body , when he spake those words . and i would know , whether the christian church rejecting the doctrine of those who made god to be like to man , was not chargeable with the same resisting the truth , and denying plain and positive words of scripture , as we are ? and yet i hope the christian church did then believe it self . suppose any should assert , that the rock in the wilderness , was really changed into christ's body ; would not he have the very same things to say against those who denied it ? for are not the words as plain and as positive , that rock was christ ? but sacramental expressions , by the consent of the christian church , and the very neture of the things , are of a different sense from logical propositions . and if this had been intended in the plain and literal sense , st. paul would never have as plainly and positively called it bread after consecration ; nor the cup be said to be the new testament in his blood. the conclusion is : is there any other foundation of the protestant church , but that if the civil magistrate pleases , he may call such of the clergy as he thinks fit for his turn at that time , and turn the church either to presbytery , or independency , or indeed what he pleases ? this was the way of our pretended reformation here in england . and by the same rule and authority , it may be altered into as many shapes and forms as there are fancies in mens heads . this looks like a very unkind requital to the church of england , for her zeal in asserting the magistrate's power against a foreign jurisdiction ; to infer from thence , that the magistrate may change the religion here which way he pleases . but although we attribute the supream iurisdiction to the king ; yet we do not question , but there are inviolable rights of the church , which ought to be preserved against the fancies of some , and the usurpations of others . we do by no means make our religion mutable , according to the magistrate's pleasure . for the rule of our religion is unalterable , being the holy scripture ; but the exercise of it , is under the regulation of the laws of the land. and as we have cause to be thankful to god , when kings are nursing fathers to our church ; so we shall never cease to pray for their continuing so ; and that in all things we may behave our selves towards them , as becomes good christians , and loyal subjects . an answer to the third paper . the third paper is said to be written by a great lady , for the satisfaction of her friends , as to the reasons of her leaving the communion of the church of england , and making her self a member of the roman catholick church . if she had written nothing concerning it , none could have been a competent judg of those reasons or motives she had for it , but her self : but since she was pleased to write this paper to satisfy her friends ; and it is thought fit to be published for general satisfaction , all readers have a right to judg of the strength of them ; and those of the church of england , an obligation to vindicate the honour of it , so far as it may be thought to suffer by them . i am sensible how nice and tender a thing it is , to meddle in a matter wherein the memory of so great a lady is so nearly concern'd ; and wherein such circumstances are mentioned , which cannot fully be cleared , the parties themselves having been many years dead : but i shall endeavour to keep within due bounds , and consider this paper with respect to the main design of it , and take notice of other particulars so far as they are subservient to it . the way of her satisfaction must needs appear very extraordinary ; for towards the conclusion she confesses , she was not able , nor would she enter into disputes with any body . now where the difference between the two churches lies wholly in matters of dispute , how any one could be truly satisfied , as to the grounds of leaving one church , and going to the other , without entring into matter of dispute with any body , is hard to understand . if persons be resolved before-hand what to do , and therefore will hear nothing said against it , there is no such way , as to declare they will enter into no dispute about it . but what satisfaction is to be had in this manner of proceeding ? how could one bred up in the church of england , and so well instructed in the doctrines of it , ever satisfy her self in forsaking the communion of it , without enquiring into , and comparing the doctrines and practices of both churches ? it is possible for persons of learning , who will take the pains of examining things themselves , to do that , without entring into disputes with any body ; but this was not to be presumed of a person of her condition . for many things must fall in her way , which she could neither have the leisure to examine , nor the capacity to judg of , without the assistance of such who have made it their business to search into them . had she no divines of the church of england about her , to have proposed her scruples to ? none able and willing to give her their utmost assistance in a matter of such importance , before she took up a resolution of forsaking our church ? this cannot be imagined ; considering not only her great quality , but that just esteem they had for her whilst she continued so zealous and devout in the communion of our church . but we have more than this to say . one of the * bishops who had nearest relation to her for many years , and who owns in print , * that he bred her up in the principles of the church of england , was both able and willing to have removed any doubts and scruples with respect to our church , if she would have been pleased to have communicated them to him . and however she endeavoured to conceal her scruples ; he tells her , in his † letter to her ( which he since printed for his own vindication ) that he had heard much discourse concerning her wavering in religion , and that he had acquainted her highness with it , the lent before the date of this paper ; and was so much concerned at it , that he obtained a promise from her , that if any writing were put into her hands by those of the the church of rome , that she would send it either to him , or to the then bishop of oxford , whom he left in attendance upon her . after which , he saith , she was many days with him at farnham ; in all which time she spake not one word to him of any doubt she had about her religion . and yet this paper bears date , aug. . that year , wherein she declares her self changed in her religion : so that it is evident she did not make use of the ordinary means for her own satisfaction , at least as to those bishops who had known her longest . but she saith , that she spoke severally to two of the best bishops we have in england , who both told her , there were many things in the roman church , which it were much to be wished we had kept ; as confession , which was no doubt commanded of god ; that praying for the dead , was one of the ancient things in christianity ; that for their parts they did it daily , though they would not own it . and afterwards , pressing one of them very much upon the other points ; he told her , that if he had been bred a catholick , he would not change his religion ; but that being of another church , wherein he was sure were all things necessary to salvation , he thought it very ill to give that scandal , as to leave that church wherein he received his baptism . which discourses , she said , did but add more to the desire she had to be a catholick . this , i confess , seems to be to the purpose ; if there were not some circumstances and expressions very much mistaken in the representation of it : but yet suppose the utmost to be allow'd , there could be no argument from hence drawn for leaving the communion of our church , if this bishop's authority or example did signify any thing with her . for supposing he did say , that if he had been bred in the communion of the church of rome , he would not change his religion : yet he added , that being of another church , wherein were all things necessary to salvation , he thought it very ill to give that scandal , as to leave that church wherein he had received his baptism . now why should not the last words have greater force to have kept her in the communion of our church , than the former to have drawn her from it ? for why should any person forsake the communion of our church , unless it appears necessary to salvation so to do ? and yet this yielding bishop did affirm , that all things necessary to salvation were certainly in our church ; and that it was an ill thing to leave it . how could this add to her desire of leaving our church ? unless there were some other motive to draw her thither , and then such small inducements would serve to inflame such a desire . but it is evident from her own words afterwards , that these concessions of the bishop could have no influence upon her : for she declares , and calls god to witness , that she would never have changed her religion , if she had thought it possible to save her soul otherwise . now what could the bishop's words signify towards her turning , when he declares just contrary , viz. not only that it was possible for her to be saved without turning , but that he was sure we had all things necessary to salvation ; and that it was a very ill thing to leave our church ? there must therefore have been some more secret reason , which encreased her desire to be a catholick after these discourses : unless the advantage were taken from the bishop's calling the church of rome the catholick religion ; if he had been bred a catholick , he would not have chang'd his religion . but if we take these words so strictly , he must have contradicted himself ; for how could he he sure we had all things necessary to salvation , if we were out of the catholick church ? was a bishop of our church , and one of the best bishops of our church , as she said , so weak as to yield , that he was sure all things necessary to salvation were to be had out of the communion of the catholick church ? but again ; there is an inconsistency in his saying , that he thought it very ill to leave our church ; which no man of common sense would have said , if he had believed the roman church to be the catholick , exclusive of all others that do not join in communion with it . the utmost then that can be made of all this , is , that there was a certain bishop of this church , who held both churches to be so far parts of the catholick church , that there was no necessity of going from one church to another . but if he asserted that , he must overthrow the necessity of the reformation , and consequently not believe our articles and homiles , and so could not be any true member of the church of england . but the late bishop of winchester hath made a shorter answer to all this ; for he first doubts , whether there ever were any such bishops who made such answers ; and afterwards he affirms , that he believes there never was , in rerum naturâ , such a discourse as is pretended to have been between this great person , and two of the most learned bishops of england . but , god be thanked , the cause of our church doth not depend upon the singular opinion of one or two bishops in it , wherein they appareently recede from the establish'd doctrine of it . and i am sure those of the church of rome take it ill from us , to be charged with the opinion of particular divines , against the known sentiments of their church . therefore supposing the matter of fact true , it ought not to have moved her to any inclination to leave the church of england . but after all , she protests , in the presence of almighty god , that no person , man or woman , directly or indirectly , ever said any thing to her ( since she came into england ) or used the least endeavour to make her change her religion ; and that it is a blessing she wholly ows to almighty god. so that the bishops are acquitted from having any hand in it , by her own words ; and as far as we can understand her meaning , she thought her self converted by immediate divine illumination . we had thought the pretence to a private spirit had not been at this time allowed in the church of rome . but i observe , that many things are allowed to bring persons to the church of rome , which they will not permit in those who go from it . as the use of reason in the choice of a church ; the judgment of sense ; and here , that which they would severely condemn in others as a private spirit , or enthusiasm , will pass well enough if it doth but lead one to their communion . any motive or method is good enough which tends to that end ; and none can be sufficient against it . but why may not others set up for the change as to other opinions upon the same grounds , as well as this great person does , as to the change from our church to the church of rome ? and we have no pretenders to enthusiasm among us , but do as solemnly ascribe the blessing wholly to almighty god ; and look on it as the effect of such prayers as she made to him in france and flanders . but i wonder a person , who owed her change so wholly to almighty god , should need the direction of an infallible church ; since the utmost they can pretend to , is no more than to have such an immediat conduct ; and the least that can be meant by it , is , that she had no assistance from any other persons . which may not exclude her own endeavours : but supposing them to be employed , and an account to be here given of them ; yet there is no connexion between any of the premisses , and the conclusion she drew from them ; and therefore it must be immediate impulse , or some concealed motive which determin'd her choice . the conclusion was , that she would never have changed , if she could have saved her soul otherwise . if this were true , she had good reason for her change ; if it were not true , she had none ; as it is most certain it was not . now let us examine how she came to this conclusion ; and i will suppose it to have been just in the method she sets it down in . first , she saith , she never had any scruples till the november before ; and then they began upon reading dr. heylin's history of the reformation ; which was commended to her as a book to settle her ; and there she found such abominable sacriledg upon henry the th's divorce , king edward's minority , and queen elizabeth's succession , that she could not believe the holy ghost could ever be in such counsels . this was none of the best advices given to such a person , to read dr. heylin's history for her satisfaction . for there are two distinct parts in the history of our reformation ; the one ecclesiastical , the other political : the former was built on scripture and antiquity , and the rights of particular churches ; the other on such maxims which are common to statesmen at all times , and in all churches , who labour to turn all revolutions and changes to their own advantage . and it is strange to me that a person of so great understanding , should not distinguish these two . whether hen. . were a good man or not ; whether the d. of somerset raised his estate out of the church lands , doth not concern our present enquiry ; which is , whether there was not sufficient cause for a reformation in the church ? and if there was , whether our church had not sufficient authority to reform it self ? and if so , whether the proceedings of our reformation were not justifiable by the rules of scripture and the ancient church ? these were the proper points for her to have considered , and not the particular faults of princes , or the miscarriages of ministers of state. were not the vices of alexander the th , and many other heads of the church of rome for a whole age together , by the confession of their own greatest writers , as great at least as those of henry the th ? and were these not thought sufficient to keep her from the church of rome ; and yet the others were sufficient to make her think of leaving our church ? but henry the eighth's church was in truth the church of rome under a political head , much as the church of sicily is under the king of spain . all the difference is , henry the th took it as his own right ; the king of spain pretends to have it from the pope , by such concessions , which the popes deny . and suppose the king of spain's pretence were unlawful to that jurisdiction which he challengeth in the kingdom of sicily ; were this a sufficient ground to justify the thoughts of separation from the church of rome ? but the duke of somerset raised his estate out of church-lands , and so did many courtiers in the reign of queen elizabeth . are there not miscarriages of the like nature in the church of rome ? what is the popes making great estates out of the church-lands , for their nephews to be princes and dukes ? a thing not unheard of in our age. and is it not so much worse to be done by the head of the church ? these she confesses were but scruples ; but such as occasioned her examining the points in difference by the holy scripture . now she was in the right way for satisfaction , provided she made use of the best helps and means for understanding it ; and took in the assistance of her spiritual guides . but it seems , contrary to the doctrine of the church of rome , she found some things so easy there , that she wondered she had been so long without finding them out . and what were these ? no less than the real presence in the blessed sacrament ; the infallibility of the church , confession , and praying for the dead . these were great discoveries to be made so easily , considering how those of the church of rome , who have been most vers'd in these matters , have found it so difficult to make them out from thence . ( . ) as to the real presence ; as it is in the dispute between us and the church of rome , it implies the real and substantial change of the elements into the body and blood of christ. but where do our saviour's words , in calling the sacrament his body and blood , imply any such thing ? the wisest persons of the church of rome have confessed , that the bare words of our saviour can never prove it ; but there needs the authority of the church to interpret them in that sense . how then could she so easily find out that , which their most learned men could not ? but there is nothing goes so far in such discoveries as a willing mind . ( . ) as to confession . no doubt the word is often used in scripture , and therefore easily found . but the question between us , is not about the usefulness or advantage of confession in particular cases , but the necessity of it in all cases , in order to remission of sins . and i can hardly believe any bishop of our church would ever say to her , that confession in this sense was ever commanded by god. for then he must be damned himself if he did not confess every known sin to a priest. but some general expressions might be used , that confession of sin was commanded by god ; confess your sins one to another : but here is nothing of a particular confession to a priest , necessary in order to forgiveness of sin. ( . ) as to praying for the dead ; it is hard to find any place of scripture which seems to have any tendency that way , unless it be with respect to the day of iudgment , and that very doubtfully . but how came this great person to think it not possible to be saved in our church , unless we prayed for the dead ? how did this come to be a point of salvation ? and for the practice of it , she saith , the bishops told her they did it daily . whether they did it or not , or in what sense they did it , we cannot now be better informed : but we are sure this could be no argument for her to leave the communion of our church , because she was told by these bishops they did it , and continued in the communion of it . ( . ) lastly ; as to the infallibility of the church . if this , as applied to the roman church , could be any where found in scripture , we should then indeed be to blame not to submit to all the definitions of it . but where is this to be found ? yes , christ hath promised to be with his church to the end of the world. not with his church , but with his apostles : and if it be restrained to them , then the end of the world is no more than always . but suppose it be understood of the successors of the apostles ; were there none but at rome ? how comes this promise to be limited to the church of rome ; and the bishops of antioch and alexandria , and all the other eastern churches ( where the bishops as certainly succeeded the apostles , as at rome it self ) not to enjoy the equal benefit of this promise ? but they who can find the infallibility of the church of rome in scripture , need not despair of finding whatever they have a mind to there . but from this promise she concludes , that our saviour would not permit the church to give the laity the communion in one kind , if it were not lawful so to do . now in my opinion , the argument is stronger the other way ; the church of rome forbids the doing of that , which christ enjoyned ; therefore it cannot be infallible , since the command of christ is so much plainer than the promise of infallibility to the church of rome . but , from all these things laid together , i can see no imaginable reason of any force to conclude , that she could not think it possible to save her soul otherwise , than by embracing the communion of the church of rome . and the publick will receive this advantage by these papers , that thereby it appears , how very little is to be said by persons of the greatest capacity , as well as place , either against the church of england , or for the church of rome . finis . an advertisement of books printed for richard chiswell . the history of the reformation of the church of england . by gilbert bvrnet , d. d. in two volumes , folio . the moderation of the church of england , in her reformation , in avoiding all undue compliances with popery and other sorts of phanaticisms , &c. by timothy pvller , d. d. octavo . a dissertation concerning the government of the ancient church : more particularly of the encroachments of the bishops of rome upon other sees . by william cave , d. d. octavo . an answer to mr. serjeants [ sure footing in christianity ] concerning the rule of faith : with some other discourses . by william falkner , d. d. . a vindication of the ordinations of the church of england ; in answer to a paper written by one of the church of rome , to prove the nullity of our orders . by gilbert bvrnet , d. d. octavo . the history of the gunpowder treason , collected from approved authors , as well popish as protestant . with a vindication of the said history , and of the proceedings and matters relating thereunto , from the exceptions which have been made against it , and more especially of late years , by the author of the catholick apology , and others . . a relation of the barbarous and bloody massacre of about an hundred thousand protestants , begun at paris , and carried on over all france , in the year . collected out of mezcray , thuanus , and other approved authors . . the apology of the church of england ; and an epistle to one signior scipio , a venetian gentleman , concerning the council of trent . written both in latin , by the right reverend father in god , iohn iewel lord bishop of sarisbury : made english by a person of quality . to which is added , the life of the said bishop ; collected and written by the same hand , octavo . a letter writ by the last assembly general of the clergy of france to the protestants , inviting them to return to their communion . together with the methods proposed by them for their conviction . translated into english , and examined , by gilb . bvrnet , d. d. . the life of william bedel , d. d. bishop of kilmore in ireland . together with certain letters which passed betwixt him and iames waddesworth ( a late pensioner of the holy inquisition in sevil ) in matter of religion , concerning the general motives to the roman obedience . . the decree made at rome the second of march , . condemning some opinions of the iesuits , and other casuists . quarto . a discourse concerning the necessity of reformation , with respect to the errors and corruptions of the church of rome . quarto . first part. — the second part of the same discourse ; shewing the vanity of the pretended reformation of the council of trent , and of r. h's vindication of it ; [ in his fifth discourse concerning the guide to controversies . ] . in the press , and will be published in few days . a discourse concerning the celebration of divine service in an unknown tongue . quarto . a papist not misrepresented by protestants . being a reply to the reflections upon the answer to [ a papist misrepresented and represented ] . quarto . an exposition of the doctrine of the church of england , in the several articles proposed by the late bishop of condom , [ in his exposition of the doctrine of the catholick church ] . quarto . a catechism explaining the doctrine and practices of the church of rome . with an answer thereunto . by a protestant of the church of england . octavo . in the press . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * morley bp of winchester . * preface to his treatise . p. . † letter to her royal highness from the bp of winton . p. , . blandford , pag. . sheldon a. b. of canterb . blanford bp of worcester . blandford bishop of worcester . preface , p. . p. . a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall, february d, / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall, february d, / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed for henry mortlocke ..., london : . marginal notes. errata: p. . reproduction of original in duke university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t. -- peter, st, iv, -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall , february d . / . by edw. stillingfleet , d. d. dean of st. paul's . london , printed for henry mortlocke , at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , . imprimatur , hen. wharton , r. r. in christo p. ac d. d. wilhelmo archiep. cant. à sacr. domest . ex aed . lamb. march . . i. peter . . and if the righteous scarcely be saved , where shall the vngodly and the sinner appear . this epistle was written by s. peter for the incouragement of christians under all their sufferings ; but these words seem to carry so much terrour and severity in them , as though none but martyrs and confessours could have any reason to hope for salvation , and all others were to be left in despair . although mankind be not easily satisfied concerning the punishment denounced against the vngodly and sinner , yet the justice of god , the equity of his commands , the freedom of their choice , the contempt of grace , and their wilfull and obstinate impenitency take away all just cause of complaint : but , that the righteous should scarcely be saved , seems hardly reconcilable with the grace , and design , and promises , of the gospel . for the righteous here are not vain , proud , self-conceited hypocrites , such who think they need no repentance , but such who by the grace of god were brought off from their former sins , and were redeemed from their vain conversation with the pretious bloud of christ , who had purisied their souls in obeying the truth through the spirit ; who were a chosen generation , a royal priesthood , an holy nation , a peculiar people ; yet of such as these it is said , if the righteous scarcely be saved . but how can this agree with the infinite goodness and mercy of god declared in the gospel , whereby sinners are courted and encouraged to repent with the hopes and promise of salvation ? did not christ come to save sinners , and st. paul call this a faithfull saying and worthy of all acceptation ; and yet after all , shall the righteous scarcely be saved ? what ioy in heaven can there be over one sinner that repents , if after his repentance it be so hard to come to heaven ? doth not christ himself invite those who are weary , and heavy laden , to come to him , with a promise that he will give rest to their souls ? but what rest can they have , who , notwithstanding their coming to him , do with so much difficulty attain to eternal rest ? how can that be said to be an easie yoke , and a light burthen , which is of it self so hard to be born , and the reward which is to make it easie so hard to be attained ? if it be said that this expression , that the righteous are scarcely saved , is to be understood of some sufferings , and persecutions , which the christians were then to undergo , and it was very hard for any , though never so righteous , to escape ; and that to this v. . refers , i answer , that this doth not clear the difficulty ; for from whence doth this necessity of suffering arise ? is it not enough to repent and forsake our sins , but we must undergo some punishment for them in this life , although god remits that of the world to come ? but how is this consistent with the fulness of christ's satisfaction , and the freeness of god's remission of sins ? and if god's justice be satisfied and the sins be forgiven , what need can there be that persons must here suffer for their sins before they can come to heaven ? so that for the clearing this subject these thing must be spoken to : i. in what sense the righteous are said to be scarcely saved . ii. how this is consistent with the grace of the gospel . iii. what incouragement there is for us to hope for salvation , when the righteous are said to be scarcely saved . i. in what sense the righteous are said to be scarcely saved . that may be understood two ways ; ( . ) with respect to accidental difficulties arising from the particular circumstances of times and seasons . ( . ) with respect to the general terms of salvation , which are common to all persons and times . . with respect to accidental difficulties arising from the particular circumstances of times and persons . for the difficulties of religion are not alike in all times , nor to all persons ; for they are not like a geometrical measure , which is always exactly the same ; but rather like a voyage at sea , which is to be managed by the same compass and to the same port ; but it sometimes proves calm and pleasant , and at other times stormy and tempestuous . which chiefly happens , when a religion appears new , or goes about to reform the old ; for then it is sure to meet with all the opposition , which the passions , and interests , and prejudices of partial men can raise against it . it s true , he that stills the raging of the sea , and the madness of the people , can , when he pleases , calm the most violent passions of mankind , and make way for the reception of truth in their minds ; but he thinks fit by such means to trie and discover what is in men. who never shew their passions more violently and unreasonably than when they are mask'd under a pretence of zeal against heresie and innovation . for that blinds their understandings , corrupts their wills , inflames their passions , hardens their hearts , and shuts up all bowels of pity and compassion towards brethren . thus it was among the iews towards the christians , both in iudea , and in the several places of their dispersion : for they looked on them as apostates and hereticks , and treated them , not onely with the utmost scorn and contempt , but with all the fury and rage imaginable , and where their own power fell short , they called in the assistence of the roman governours , representing the christians to them , as an upstart and pernicious sect , seditious and turbulent , and therefore ought by all means to be supprest : by such insinuations the poor christians in the eastern provinces of the iewish dispersion , were miserably harassed and proceeded against as malefactours . thus it was at that time when s. peter wrote his epistle to the iewish christians , who were scattered throughout pontus , galatia , cappadocia , asia , and bithynia , where there were abundance of iews , and many converts , but very hardly used among them . st. peter having been imployed much among them , ( the apostleship of the circumcision being committed to him ) and being withdrawn into the kingdom of parthia , where he had planted a church at babylon , ( not so desolate at that time , as not to be sufficient for such a number , as appears by strabo and iosephus ) from thence he writes this excellent epistle for the advice and comfort of the suffering christians . he adviseth them to behave themselves with great prudence and care of their actions , to give no advantage against themseves , by doing any ill things ; and then , if it pleased god to call them out to suffer , they ought not to murmur , or complain , or mistrust his gracious providence towards them , but commit themselves to god in well doing , as unto a faithfull creatour . and if they did think it hard for them to suffer these things , they ought to consider , there was a wise directour of them above , who had beforehand appointed such a series of events , that although their enemies rejoyced to see them suffer in the first place , yet their turn would come not long after , and then these enemies of the gospel would feel the severity of god's wrath and displeasure against them . which is the meaning of the foregoing verse , for the time is come that iudgment must begin at the house of god ; and if it first begin at us , what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of god ? i. e. christ hath foretold desolation and ruine to come upon the jewish nation , for rejecting him when he came to save them ; but he withall saith , that before these things , they shall lay their hands on you and persecute you , delivering you up to the synagogues , and into prisons , being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake . which implies a severe persecution of the christian church , begun by the iews , but carried on by the governours of kingdoms and provinces . and therefore saith the apostle , although the time be now come that iudgment begins at the house of god , yet it will not end there ; but that which is onely a cup of trembling and astonishment to them shall be a cup of fury and destruction to the obstinate and impenitent iews . the case was hard to the poor christians , but it would be much more severe towards their cruel persecutours ; for if the righteous , whom god loves , meet with such sharp usage by his permission for a time , the day will come when god will avenge the cause of his suffering people , and make their ungodly and perfidious enemies feel the smart of his displeasure in such manner that they shall not know where to hide themselves , where shall the sinner and ungodly appear . but that which i observe from hence is , that there are some accidental circumstances which depend on divine providence , which may make the condition of some men , as to salvation , much more difficult than that of others : for it is no such easie matter to go through many tribulations into the kingdom of god , i. e. to be content to be contemned and reproached as the worst of men ; to be torn from friends and relations , and all the comforts of life ; to be cast into loathsome prisons , and more loathsome company in them ; to be in continual expectation of such cruel usage and torments , as make death be look'd on as their best friend and most seasonable deliverer . if sufferings do not rise so high , yet when men cannot keep faith and a good conscience , without hazarding the loss of what mankind are apt to set too great a value upon , their ease , and riches , and expectations in this world , even these make it harder for such persons to get to heaven ; because sincerity and constancy are the necessary conditions of it , which may be tryed much more in some than it is in others . we must all have the same journey's-end , if we hope to get to heaven , but some may meet with a freer road , and a calmer season , and better company , in their journey than others . however it happens we must go through all , and not be discourag'd at any appearance of difficulties upon our way . but herein mankind are apt to be deceived , as though all the difficulties lay in a suffering condition ; whereas a soft , and careless , and voluptuous life is rather more dangerous to their souls , because persons are less apt to suspect their danger . he that is set upon by force and violence endeavours to defend himself as well as he can ; but he that is betrayed under a pretence of kindness is drawn into his ruine before he is aware , and goes on chearfully to his own destruction . prosperity hath the true nature of an opiate , for it stupifies and pleases at the same time . the temptations of the suffering side are apt to allarm , awake , and rouse up the sleepy powers of the soul ; whereas the gentle and easie condition of life either lays them asleep , by a kind of intoxication , or so diverts them from all serious things , as puts them out of the very way to heaven . for , the first thing in it is a steady and serious resolution of mind to doe what lies in them to go thither ; which can never be done without a true consideration of the vanities of this world , how pleasing soever ; and a fixed and settled judgment , preferring the happiness of heaven before all the most alluring pleasures of this life . so that the different circumstances of life do make the way of salvation more difficult to some than to others . but this is not all ; for there are many things which make it more difficult to some than to others , which are of another nature . some tempers are more flexible and pliable than others ; more capable of hearkning to reason ; and more apt to reflect on their own actions ; whereas others are naturally stiff and obstinate , who stick as fast to an opinion or prejudice which they have once taken up , as if they were fatally determined to it ; and such as these can hardly ever be convinced they are in an errour , unless by a power superiour to nature . some again , are very easily convinced of a fault , but very hardly reclaimed ; for that facility of temper which makes them easie to be convinced , lays them open to the next temptation , which they are not able to withstand . these are always repenting and amending and beginning to reform , but without the grace of god , not able to go through with it . some are modest and bashfull sinners , whom fear and shame may restrain ; others are so hardned and impudent in their wickedness , that they deny even the very first principles of morality as well as religion , and not onely refuse to hearken to reproof , but reject it with scorn and indignation . and it cannot be supposed that the grace of god , working on mens minds in a way suitable to them , should have as easie an admittance into one as into the other ; for the one are like a house with doors shut , but easily opened ; the other like a house not onely shut , but bolted and barracadoed . again , some have had the advantage of a pious and religious education , by which the principles of piety and vertue have made an early impression on their minds , and have been a continual check upon evil inclinations ; and if they have been too weak to subdue them , yet they have been strong enough to prevent their extravagancies , or to bring them to a speedy repentance , and to take up firmer resolutions ; and such are more easily brought to themselves and settled in a vertuous course of life . but the generality of mankind , through a wretched carelesness , mind not the early improvement of their children in what is good ; and what education they give them tends to any thing more than the planting the sense of god , and true religion , and vertue , in them . it were well , if they would but let nature alone in their children ; but instead of that , they often place such about them , who humour them in their worst inclinations , and give them an early taste of profaneness and irreligion ; so that when they come into the world , they run into all manner of wickedness , and commit it with greediness , having so quick a relish of it ; and then indeed it is a very hard matter to bring them to repentance ; for that is to take shame and dishonour to themselves , to say they have been fools , and have done wickedly ; and rather than doe this , they chuse to go on in their impieties , and treasure up wrath against the day of wrath . those who magnify the freedom of will in mankind in this degenerate state , seem to consider them onely in theory and speculation ; not as they are , but as they ought to have been . it is like that which they call the spring in some bodies , which are apt to dilate and expand themselves , but may be easily oppressed with such a weight as makes it impossible for them to inlarge themselves till it be removed . there is no doubt in mankind , considered in it self , a power of acting according to reason , which is the truest freedom , ( for a power of acting otherwise is weakdness and folly , ) but what through the natural propensity to evil ; what through the power of bad examples ; what through the violence of some tempers and passions ; what through the cloudiness of some understandings , from bodily distempers ; what through the strength of evil habits , and corrupt dispositions , there is scarce such a thing as freedom of will left , especially as to matters of salvation . so that if the scripture did not so plainly express the necessity of divine grace for the conversion of sinners ( as it doth , ) the mere consideration of the state of human : nature would make me believe it , supposing that any part of mankind be designed to be fitted for heaven . for although the difficulties be not alike in all , yet , of one kind or other , they are such as cannot be overcome by our selves , without the power of divine grace exciting , preventing , and assisting of us . ( . ) having thus shewed what difficulties there are which arise from the different circumstances of times and persons , i am now . to consider those which arise from the terms of salvation , which are common to all persons and times . here we must suppose salvation to be the thing aimed at , as the chief end or happiness of such men ; and here are two kinds of difficulties to be enquired into ; ( . ) such as are implied in the general pursuit of happiness . ( . ) such as immediately relate to this kind of happiness . ( . ) such as are implied in the general pursuit of happiness : for happiness is not a thing of chance or necessity , but a matter of choice and design . it is a vulgar mistake ( and i wish it were onely among the vulgar ) to account those happy , who are fortunate : but this notion of happiness was unanimously rejected by all the ancient moralists . some of them indeed have thought it repugnant to common sense , to call those happy who were under great calamities , i. e. who were , in the sense of mankind , miserable : but then they utterly denied , that the best outward circumstances could make a man happy ; for that must depend upon the temper of a man's mind , and his improvement in vertue . these are some things which the moralists agreed in , which may be of great use to us for clearing the christian doctrine in this matter about the difficulty of attaining salvation . ( . ) that happiness did consist in one uniform design of life , i. e. that a man must chuse one proper and chief end to himself , and so order his thoughts and actions that he may attain it . and therefore the dissolute and careless liver , that minds or thinks of nothing but eating , and drinking , and sleeping , and passing away his time , was no more capable of happiness than a brute , which exceeds him in that which he accounts the happiness of life . ( . ) that there must be a carefull and attentive mind to pursue this design . and that is by keeping close to those maxims , which were laid down as necessary to attain it . for , according to their different notions , they had different maxims , or rules of practice , either as to vertue or pleasure , and as men did observe these , they were nearer to their happiness : but if they broke their rules , they must blame themselves if they missed of it . ( . ) that any man who desired to be happy , must above all things take pains about himself ; for without that they concluded it impossible for a man to be happy , let his outward condition in the world be what it would : for that was too uncertain a foundation to build such a structure upon . therefore it was necessary for any one that pretended to happiness , to have a true notion of what conduced to it in his mind ; and to bring his passions into order . for all the world cannot make one whose passions are violent and extravagant , to be happy ; no more than him to be a sound and healthfull man , that hath a fever , and a dropsy , and convulsions , at the same time upon him . for the violence of lust is an inward burning fever ; covetousness , or an infatiable desire of riches , a perpetual dropsy , which encreases the thirst by an endeavour to quench it ; and excessive anger is a convulsion of those powers of the soul which ought to be sedate , and composed , in any one who pretends to happiness . but when they considered the force of natural inclinations , they found it was no easie matter to make the unreasonable part to be governed by the reasonable . for the less of reason , the more wilfulness and stubbornness ; and therefore the harder to be brought to reason and to be govern'd by it . and herein lay the main difficulty ; and after all their arguments , and rules , and directions , humane nature was found too refractory to submit ; and the violence of man's passions overthrew all the plausible schemes of happiness which the philosophers had set up . to which i add , ( . ) that those who consulted most the ease and pleasure of mankind , were forced to put men upon some hard and unpleasant things to make any thing like happiness to consist in pleasure . for they cast off all riot and excess , all intemperance and luxury , because the pain which followed exceeded the pleasure ; and therefore they made temperance and chastity necessary to the true pleasure of life . they reduced the happiness of pleasure to a fixed and setled state , and so took it off from that which was onely sensual . they brought mens desires within so narrow a compass , that the true lovers of pleasure would abhor such confinements as they made necessary . and although they could never conquer the fears of invisible powers , and of death , yet they thought no happiness was to be had without it . so that all were agreed , that it was impossible to attain to any thing that looked like happiness without some real difficulty , which was necessary to be undergone , although the success were uncertain . ( . ) let us now consider the difficulties relating to salvation , or that happiness which christians expect . and here i shall shew , ( . ) that it is far more reasonable to go through difficulties , for the sake of it . ( . ) that they are not such , but that we may reasonably hope to overcome them . ( . ) it is more reasonable to expect difficulties in the way of salvation . for the more excellent and desirable the happiness is , the more it is worth the while for us to take pains about it ; especially when there is a certainty of attaining it . the moralists had but very dark , and confused , and uncertain notions of happiness ; something they saw , but with a very glimmering light : they found that all men desired it , and wise men sought after it ; but wherein it lay , and how to be attained , they could not agree . the most considering men were convinced it must be in the best part of our selves , and that is our minds , and in the greatest perfection of that , viz. vertue and goodness . but they met with insuperable difficulties in the way to it , and the best among them sadly lamented the state of humane nature , after all the pains and endeavours they had used to rectifie their opinions , and to subdue their passions . for they found it too restiff and untractable , too much under the sway and dominion of the sensitive appetite , for them ever to hope by the mere power of reason to bring it into such subjection , as to pretend to a total conquest . and those who refined pleasure so much , as to make it a happiness fit for mankind to own , did make a happiness just as they made their gods , viz. a fine , subtil , airy , pleasant no-thing , or that had no solidity in it : for the epicurean happiness , with all its refinements , was rather a matter of speculation than practice ; and after all was not worth so much pains about it , but like the gourd , which after its paring , and cleansing , and dressing , is fit onely to be cast upon the dunghill . but it cannot be said that the happiness offered to christians is of such a nature : for it is really the best , the most valuable and desirable good , not promised to be enjoyed in this mean , despicable , and uncertain state of life , but reserved for a more free , spiritual and continuing state. so our apostle calls it , an inheritance , incorruptible and undefiled , and that fadeth not away , reserved in heaven for you . such is the condition of the world without us here , and of the passions and infirmities within us , that it is a vain thing to expect a true happiness to be enjoyed in this life ; the utmost we can hope for , is to be prepared for a better ; and god knows there is difficulty enough in that . we have hearts so vain and sensual , so addicted to the pleasures and impertinencies of this world , so prepossessed with the objects of sense , that it is no easie matter to bring them so much as in earnest to consider of another world. but it is yet harder to fix the thoughts of it upon our minds , so as to make a deep impression upon them , as they must do , if we make the happiness of heaven our chief end and design . supposing that paradise were still upon earth in its first glory , and to be found by the description which moses gives of it ; a man may think often concerning it , where it lies , what the rivers are by which it is to be discovered ; but all this amounts but to a mere speculation : but suppose that he takes up a resolution to go thither , what other kind of thoughts hath he then about it , as to the truth and certainty of the place , and the way that leads thither , and the difficulties he is like to meet with ? which make another kind of impression than the former dry speculation did . if a man doth not think heaven worth all the pains and difficulties which lie in our way to it , he never yet had one serious and becoming thought concerning it . for the happiness proposed is really so great and invaluable , that the more we think of it , the more we shall esteem it , and the more we shall despise and triumph over the greatest difficulties in order to it ; it being no less than the perfect enjoyment of the most perfect good , in a most perfect state of life , and nothing can be desired by humane nature greater than this . ( . ) the difficulties in our way to salvation are not such , but we may reasonably hope to overcome them ; i. e. if we set our selves about it ; otherwise a very mean difficulty will appear too great for us . therefore we must suppose not onely a willing mind , but a firm resolution to doe what lies in us . and there are two things to shew that we may hope to overcome them ; ( . ) that the most difficult duties are in themselves reasonable to be performed by us . ( . ) that god offers his gratious assistence for the performance of them . ( . ) that the most difficult duties are in themselves reasonable . i mean such whose difficulty doth not arise from accidental outward circumstances ; but from a respect to the present state and condition of humane nature . such as , ( . ) true repentance ; which is one of the hardest works of a man's life , when he hath been long engaged in a course of sinning against conscience . it is not hard for such a one to be made sensible that he hath done amiss ; for he that acts against his judgment is , as aristotle observes , apt to repent , i. e. to find fault with himself for his own actions , and to resolve to amend . there is a sort of displeasure against sin , which is consistent with the practice of it , which is called by the casuists , attritio impoenitentium ; but they say it is without a purpose of forsaking it , if there be such a purpose that they say is attritio poenitentium ; but if it be an ineffectual purpose , the scripture no where calls it repentance . for as long as the habitual practice continues , it is certain that man's love to his sin exceeds his hatred of it ; and what repentance can that be which is consistent with a prevailing love of sin ? when persons were first made christians , their repentance was easily discerned , whether true or false , because it was a publick and sol●mn renunciation of all their former sins ; but when men have accustomed themselves to sin under a profession to renounce their sins , it is a harder matter to find out the sincerity of their repentance as to those sins . and here a difference must be made as to the nature and kind of sins : for there are some sins which all agree to be sins , yet is a hard matter to convince persons that they are guilty of them , such as hypocrisie , schism , and idolatry , which men will find something to excuse themselves from , notwithstanding the clearest evidence against them . some are such strangers to themselves , that they do not suspect themselves for those sins which others easily discern in them , as is common in the case of ●ride , and envy , and covetousness , and superstition . it cannot be supposed that persons should so particularly repent of such sins which they are not sensible of ; but where self-love blind● it cannot excuse . and where such evil habits prevail , persons must repent ▪ and search , and examine themselves in order to a particular repentance . there are other sins which are really perpetual burthens to a good mind , but it knows not how to get rid of them with the utmost care ; such as inward motions to sin , sudden heats and surprises , mixt infirmities , coldness in devotion , distractions in prayer , and many omissions of personal duties ; in such cases as these , if we do not allow sincerity of repentance without through amendment , we make a general repentance insignificant , and make the condition of many good men desperate ; for none can be saved without true repentance . and if there can be no true repentance without actual forsaking all such kinds of sins , there is no such thing as true repentance to be found . but there are other sins of a more dangerous and malignant nature , which argue a very bad mind ; such as malice and hatred , a rooted aversion to what is good ; and a strong inclination to evil. there are some sins that are gross and notorious , of which st. paul saith , the lusts of the flesh are manifest ; i. e. such sins are easily known to be sins , and mens consciences condemn them even while they commit them ; such as murther , adultery , intemperance , injustice , perjury , and such like . of which the apostle after declares , that they who doe such things shall never come to heaven . therefore as to them , such a repentance is necessary as implies not merely a dislike and sorrow for them , but a thorough change of a man's mind , and the course of his life , with respect to them . and surely it is no easie matter to new mold the temper of ones mind , and to turn the tide of our actions ; to break off our beloved sins , and to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance . this is indeed a hard work ; but yet it is a most reasonable work. it is hard , but it is like the taking violent physick in some diseases , where the humour must be purged out , or the party must dye ; the uneasiness is not to be considered , but the necessity ; and in such a case the mind cannot be at ease till it be done . so that the very difficulty of repentance lays the foundation for greater peace of mind afterwards . and who will think much of such a difficulty , which is so necessary to peace with god and his own conscience ? ( . ) the love of god is above all things . this is so fundamental a duty , that we cannot place our happiness in god without it . for if we do not love god above all things , we must love somewhat else so ; and whatever we love above all things , that we make our happiness . but i am affraid the greatest part of the world love all things above him : for we are to judge of mens love and esteem by what they court , and pursue , and desire , and delight in ; it is impossible there should be such a love of god , where the stream of the affections and course of actions run quite another way ; i mean , to the vanities of this world , of which the apostle hath said , if any man loves it , the love of the father is not in him . but this is a hard point : for some degree of love to this world is allowable ; else how can we thank god for the comforts of it ? and all persons who know god do grant , that his perfections are far above all the world , and therefore they seem to have a value and esteem for him above it . we must here distinguish a notional esteem from that which is practical . a notional esteem implies no more than a mere conviction that god must exceed all the excellencies which are scattered in the creatures ; but a practical esteem is , when the acts of our souls towards him are suitable to the apprehensions we have in our minds concerning him . when we adore his infinite perfections , and delight in the meditation of them ; when we desire to doe all things pleasing to him , and avoid what we know to offend him ; when we believe , and hope , and trust in him , and commit our selves to his conduct in this world , in hopes of being happy with him in another . this is the love of god above all things ; but alas ! where is this love of god to be found ? it is no very hard matter to work up a heated and devout imagination to the fancy of raptures and ecstasies and mystical unions ; but after all , this is the love of god , that we keep his commandments . as the true love of a prince is not to flatter and admire him , and watch for his smiles ; but to observe his directions , and obey his orders , and to doe what is most for his service . and although such a love of god be hard to those whose hearts are full of carnal affections , and are taken up with the follies and vanities of this world , yet we cannot take one true step in the way to heaven without the love of god. for even those who have most corrupted the doctrine of repentance do confess , that there can be no true contrition of sin , which is not founded on the love of god as the principle of it , and however they have dangerously flattered and deceived those who are so weak to believe them , that attrition with the sacrament of penance is sufficient to put men into the state of grace ; yet st. peter's keys must have an extraordinary virtue , if they can change nature into grace , or fear into love , or mere horrour of conscience into true repentance . but although such a love of god above all things be so hard a thing to minds prepossessed with the love of other things ; yet no one can deny that it is the most reasonable duty in the world. the very thoughts of god , if they are such as we ought to have , imply , that he is the best , the wisest , the most perfect being , and therefore the most amiable and desirable object . and whither then should the most natural stream of our affections run , but towards him ? what do we mean to suffer so much earth and filthiness to obstruct the free passage of them in their most proper course ? what can we meet with in this deceitfull world , that can bear the least proportion to such infinite goodness ? oh what a difference is there between our reason and our love ? we verily believe that god deserves our love above all things , and yet how small a share hath he in it ? we love what we profess to despise above all things , viz. our sins and this vain world ; and we really too much despise what we still profess to love above all things , viz. god and our eternal happiness . o miserable condition of humanity ! made to be happy , and yet fond of misery ; loving what 's vain , and yet despising vanity ; hating what 's good , and yet accounts it best ; and therefore fittest for our choice and love. the love of god above all things is so just and reasonable , that those who doe it least approve it as the most excellent imployment of our minds ; and those that doe it most , think they fall short of what god deserves from them . the more we know of god , the more we know that we ought to love and delight in him ; and all our difficulty in the practice of it can never make us think it is unreasonable to love him above all things , without whom nothing can make us happy , and who alone can doe it . ( . ) vniversal holiness of heart and life . if this were not necessary to salvation , our apostle would not have pressed it with so much earnestness as he doth ; as obedient children , not fashioning your selves according to the former lusts in your ignorance , but as he which hath called you is holy , so be ye holy in all manner of conversation ; because it is written , be ye holy , for i am holy . again , dearly beloved , i beseech you , as strangers and pilgrims , abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul. and again , that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh , to the lusts of men , but to the will of god. this is a hard saying to mankind , who part with nothing so hardly as with their sins ; yet these must be parted with , if ever we hope to get to heaven . i do not say , that a perfection in holiness is required , ( for that were to suppose happiness in this world , since there can be no perfect holiness without it , ) but there must be a constant , uniform , and sincere endeavour after it ; by avoiding all known and wilfull sins , and doing all our duties to god in such a manner as our conscience cannot charge us with gross neglect or insincerity . there are some things we cannot say are downright sins ; yet if they lead to them ; if they indispose our minds to god , and his service ; if they tend to lightness and vanity , and make us more easie to entertain the devil's temptations , we ought to avoid them as the snares of the devil . so , on the other side , there are some things which we cannot say are plain , and express , and necessary duties of religion , yet they tend so much to keep up the life and spirit of it , that a general design of holiness is enough to recommend them . as to positive duties of religion , we cannot exactly fix the time , and measure , and season of their performance , which must vary according to circumstances ; but this we can say , that the more persons set themselves to the practice of holiness , and the greater preparation they make for another world , the more they will delight in the performance of god's service , and the more ready to embrace any opportunities for it . those who would have all religious duties determined as to the circumstances of them , are like men who would have punctual rules set down , how often two friends should converse with each other , and how long time they are to stay together . true friendship will need none of those things , but will incline them to embrace the best opportunities for mutual conversation , lest too long distance beget a coldness first , and then the friendship dissolves . it is no hard matter to pray as far as words go ; but to pray with zeal and devotion , to attend upon god with that seriousness of mind we ought to doe , will require our utmost attention . and it is no easie matter to keep our minds composed and fit to converse with god in prayer , and other solemn duties of religion . but as hard as this appears to us , it is most fit and reasonable that we should doe it : for what an unbecoming thing it is to worship god in a careless , trifling , perfunctory manner ; as though nothing less deserved the imploying the vigour of our minds about , than the service of god. but how can we love him with all our hearts , if we do not serve him with all our mind and strength . ( . ) resignation of our selves to god ; this the apostle calls casting all our care upon him . this is a very wise duty if we can attain to it , because it eases our minds of many fears and perplexities , both as to our selves and others : but it is no easie thing to set our minds free from solicitous thoughts , about possible evils . we cannot mend our condition , nor prevent what is determined by our most anxious care ; but we may enjoy our selves with far greater peace and tranquillity , if we can be content to commit our selves to the best conduct , and that is of him that governs the world. and whatever strugglings we may find within our selves about it , yet the more we search , and weigh , and consider things , the more we shall be satisfied , that the resignation of our selves to god , as to all our concernments in this world , is the best means to calm our passions , to abate our fears , to prevent our impatience , and so to attain to that ornament of a meek and quiet spirit , which is with god of great price . but if all these duties be so necessary to our being saved , and we lie under such difficulties as to the performance of them , their appearing to be reasonable makes our condition so much worse : for to find it so hard to doe what we are convinced is most reasonable to be done , is one of the worst circumstances of our condition . it s true we do not want faculties of understanding and will ; but what then , if our moral indispositions make these useless to our spiritual advantage ? a man that is like to be stifled in a large vessel full of downy feathers , cannot complain of the hardness of what he lies upon , for all things feel soft and easie about him , yet he may be stifled with them ; our evil habits , and corrupt inclinations , have nothing that feels hard or troublesome to us ; but if we cannot overcome them , they will certainly ruine and destroy us . there is therefore a necessity of a higher principle of divine grace to enable us to break thorough all these difficulties . which grace is so abundantly promised by the gospel to those who seek it , that it comes at last to be our own fault , if we be not saved . ii. and this helps us to reconcile the difficulty of salvation , with the easiness of the terms of the gospel : for that which is not onely hard , but impossible to us , in our own strength , may , by the mighty power of divine grace , become not onely possible but easie to us : and withall those things are accounted easie which bring ease , and that is a light burthen which rids one of a far harder . and thus the commands of christ , however hard in themselves to us , yet being considered with the grace of the gospel , and the blessed effect of inward peace , which follows sincere obedience , even his yoke , which keeps us most in , may be said to be easie , and his burthen , which sits hardest upon us , may be said to be light . iii. and from hence we see what encouragement there is still for us to hope to be saved , if we be righteous . there is none for the vngodly and sinner ; i. e. for the profane contemner of god and religion , or for the wicked liver . for however they may flatter themselves with vain and presumptuous hopes , there is no more ground to think that the righteous shall be saved , than that the ungodly and sinner shall not : for both are alike made known by the same word of god. but what comfort is it ( may some say ) to hear that the righteous are scarcely saved , when we are so conscious to our selves of our own unrighteousness ? if we could think our selves righteous before god , there were some hopes , but we are sinners ; and if we should deny or excuse it , we should be so much more so ; what hope can there be then for us ? to this i shall answer , and conclude . ( . ) the righteous here spoken of were once great sinners ; for st. peter mentions their former lusts , and working the will of the gentiles in lasciviousness , lust , excess of wine , revellings , banquetings , and abominable idolatries . yet these are said , to be redeemed from their vain conversation by the precious bloud of christ ; and to be begotten again to a lively hope of an inheritance incorruptible , &c. there is therefore , not merely a possibility of being saved , but a just and grounded hope , if we renounce our former sins , and become righteous , according to the terms of the gospel ; i. e. if we sincerely repent of our sins , and turn from them , and live the rest of our time , not to the lusts of men , but to the will of god. but if god had declared , that he expected from mankind an entire and perfect righteousness without any sin , it were all one , as to publish a general and irreversible decree of damnation to all , for all have sinned and come short of the glory of god. from whence the apostle well argues , that men cannot save themselves : but god , of his infinite pity and mercy towards the deplorable condition of mankind , hath found out a way to save them , by the redemption which is in christ iesus , whom he hath made a propitiation for their sins . although therefore as to our selves we have no hopes , yet herein god hath magnified his abundant love towards sinners , that although they have sinned to a high degree , yet if they be so far wearied with the burthen of their sins , as to take christ's yoke upon them , then he hath promised ease and rest to their souls , which is the greatest blessing in the world , especially to repenting sinners . but ( some may again say ) we have repented and sinned , and sinned and repented again , and can hardly yet tell which will get the better at last ; we cannot say that we have entirely submitted our necks to christ's yoke , for that requires a great deal more than we can perform ; how then can we be thought righteous ? i answer therefore , ( . ) where there is a sincere and honest endeavour to please god , and keep his commandments , although persons fail in the manner of doing it , god will accept of such as righteous : but where they please themselves in their unrighteousness , and go on in it , hoping that god will accept some kind of repentance in stead of it ; or , where there hath been long struggling , and many acts of repentance , and the interest of sin prevails ; the case of such is very dangerous , but not desperate . for as long as there is hopes of a true repentance , there is of salvation ; and there is still hopes of repentance where mens hearts are not hardned by an incorrigible stiffness : for , according to the best measures we can take by the rules of the gospel , none are effectually excluded from the hopes of salvation , but such as exclude themselves by their own impenitency . the end . errata . page . line . dele is . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e pet. . , , . c. . v. . tim. . . luk. . , . matt. . . v. . pet. . . gal. . . although babylon were very much exhausted , by the neighbourhood of seleucia first , and afterwards of ctesiphon ; yet i see no reason to conclude that babylon was not then capable of having a church in it , when s. peter wrote this epistle . for iosephus , lib. . owns , that there was in babylon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the time when hyrcanus was sent thither ; and out of such a multitude of iews a church might easily be gathered . the calamities which befell the iews of those parts afterwards rather reach to the country than the city of babylon . and when such numbers of iews are allowed to have been after them in ctesiphon , nearda and nisibis , which were all cities in those parts , i see no cause to question that there were great numbers of iews at that time in babylon ; since even in trajan's time , they are confessed to have been very numerous in mesopotamia . strabo , lib. . saith , that a great part of babylon was deserted in his time , and so it might well be , and leave room enough for a christian church to be there notwithstanding . so that no reason appears sufficient to me to take babylon in any other sense , than for the city generally known by that name , without flying to any mystical sense , or a strong place in egypt bearing that name ; there being less probability of a church in a garrison , as strabo describes it , than in the remainders of so great a city . pet. . . luk. . . act. . . pet. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nicom . l. . c. . inter cateramala , hoc quoque habet stultitia proprium , semper incipit vivere . sen. ep. . gal. . , , . cor. . , . eph. . , . joh. ● . . joh. . . pet. . , , . . . . . pet. . . pet. . . pet. . . . . . , . . , . . . rom. . . of the nature of superstition a sermon preached at st dunstans west, march , mdclxxxii / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) of the nature of superstition a sermon preached at st dunstans west, march , mdclxxxii / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed for h. mortlock..., london : . reproduction of original in university of pennsylvania library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t. -- colossians ii, -- sermons. superstition -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion of the nature of superstition . a sermon preached at s t dunstans west , march . mdclxxxii . by edward stillingfleet , d. d. dean of s. paul's , and chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london , printed for h. mortlock at the phoenix in s. paul's church-yard , and at the white hart in westminster-hall , . coloss. . . which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will-worship , and humility , and neglecting of the body , not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh . saint paul was now a prisoner at rome for the sake of the gospel , when he wrote this epistle to the colossians , but his mind was at liberty ; and the compass of his thoughts and cares was so far from being confined within the walls of a prison , that it reached not only to the churches of asia planted by himself , as those of ephesus and galatia ; but to those which had never seen him , as the colossians and laodiceans . for , saith he , i would that ye knew what great conflict i have for you , and for them at laodicea , and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh . had not he trouble enough with the churches of rome and greece , and those he had conversed with in other parts , but he must take upon him to interpose in the affairs of those churches he had never seen ? but such was the largeness of the apostle's mind , the fervour of his zeal , the extent of his charity , that the care of all the churches was upon him ; but especially those which had been planted by his means , although not by his personal endeavours ; among which , in all probability , this of the colossians was one . for this epaphras whom st. paul calls a faithful minister of christ to them , was imploy'd as an evangelist under him ; and particularly in the cities of laodicea , hierapolis , and colosse , which were not far distant from each other in phrygia ; and for the churches there setled , s. paul testifies , that he had a mighty zeal and concernment : from whence it arose , that hearing of s. pauls imprisonment at rome , he resolves to take a journey thither to acquaint him with the state of those churches , and to desire his advice and direction in the present danger they were in , of being seduced from the simplicity of the gospel , by the plausible insinuations of false teachers , who pretended to give them a more refined systeme of religion , by a composition of law and gospel and philosophy all together . s. paul understanding by him the dangerous circumstances they were in , although epaphras himself was made a fellow-prisoner with him ; as appears by the epistle to philemon , sent at the same time with this ; yet he finds means by tychicus and onesimus to convey this epistle to them . wherein by an admirable art of insinuation , far above the eloquent exordiums of the heathen orators , he lets them understand , how passionately he was concerned for their welfare ; and what an agony he suffered in his own breast for their sakes , lest under some artificial colours and very fair pretences , they should be drawn off from the love and unity and sincerity of the gospel . for after he had told them what conflict he had for them that had not seen his face in the flesh , he immediately adds , that it was , that their hearts might be comforted , being knit together in love , and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding , to the acknowledgment of the mystery of god and of the father and of christ. in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge . and when he hath thus set forth the excellency and sufficiency of the gospel ; he then le ts fall an intimation of his design , and this i say , lest any man should beguile you with enticing words . but lest they should suspect from hence that ill offices had been done them , and they had been misrepresented to s. paul ; in the next verse he tells them , that at that distance , he did rejoice , beholding their order , and the stedfastness of their faith in christ. and therefore exhorts them , as they had received christ jesus the lord , so to walk in him : i. e. to adhere to that faith which they at first embraced ; as he explains it , in the seventh verse . having thus removed all jealousy and suspicion as to their present stedfastness , he doth more openly address himself to them ; in giving them caution against the most dangerous and deceitful errours . beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit , after the tradition of men , after the rudiments of the world , and not after christ. not as though there were the least prejudice to christianity to be imagined by mens searching into the works of god , or the nature of moral actions , or the digesting our own thoughts or conceptions of things , which is all that is understood by true philosophy ; but that the model of religion which they were in so much danger of being deceived by , was made up , partly of philosophical precepts , and partly of jewish traditions and ritual observations ; by which the false teachers endeavoured to corrupt and adulterate the gospel of christ. accordingly in the following discourse , the apostle first disputes against the necessity of keeping the ceremonies of the law , now under the gospel , and sums up the force of it , v. . which are a shadow of things to come , but the body is of christ. and having thus dispatched the hardest question about the obligation of the law of moses , he enters upon the debate about other inventions , which they endeavoured to recommend to christians . ( . ) about the worshipping of angels , as mediators between god and men ; which was an opinion then generally received among the corrupters of christianity , the gnosticks and judaizing christians ; who were not so vain in their imaginations , to believe them to be supreme and independent deities ; for this they utterly denied ; owning one only supreme god the father of all : but they thought access to him was to be had by the mediation of angels , and therefore they brought in the worship of them . baronius indeed denies , that the gnosticks introduced any worship of angels ; but therein he is justly confuted by some late writers of the roman church . for tertullian condemns the gnosticks for a magical service of angels ; and epiphanius saith , that their impure sacrifices were supposed to be offer'd up by principalities and powers , to the supreme father of all . which doth evidently prove , that the gnosticks did give worship to angels as mediators . and although baronius endeavours likewise to clear the cerinthians from this guilt ( lest the church of rome should be found to tread in their steps ) because cerinthus acknowledged one supreme power above angels , and because he had a bad opinion of the angel which gave the law ; yet , why might not they worship the angels as mediators between that supreme power and them ; and even that angel which gave the law as well as the rest , since they contended for the necessary observation of the law ? but besides , all the judaizing christians were not followers of cerinthus , there being different sects among them ; as appears by irenaeus , epiphanius and others ; and baronius himself grants that the pharisaical jews of that and following ages did worship angels as the host of heaven . and the essens had their angels of prayer ; and made their prayers to the rising sun , whom they looked on as on the rest of the stars , as animated and intelligent beings . and why the judaizing christians should not retain their former superstitions , as well as their other traditions and observations , i do not understand . especially , since theodoret so expresly affirms , that those who then pleaded for the keeping of the law brought in the worship of angels , which custom , he saith , continued a long time in phrygia and pisidia ; and at last the council of laodicea , made a canon against praying to angels . those of the church of rome are so sensible of the force of this testimony of theodoret against their practice , that they are driven to desperate shifts to avoid it . bellarmine saith , that he speaks against the gnosticks ; whereas theodoret mentions only those who were for keeping the law. baronius saith in plain terms , theodoret was mistaken , and that there were no such hereticks then ; but this is so gross , that bellarmin and others contradict him in it . others therefore say , that the worship of angels here spoken against , is the worshipping of them as makers of the world. but that is more than st. paul saith , for he speaks againstthat worship which arises from humility , and nothing so proper for that , as the worshipping them as mediators between god and us . some think it is when angels are preferred before christ , which is likewise more than the apostle saith ; and they who chuse other mediators , by whom god is more accessible by us , do prefer them in use , though not in dignity : others , as the jansenists in their new testament , say it is , when angels are set up as mediators in opposition to christ ; but that cannot be the apostles meaning ; for then his great business would have been to have proved christ to be the true mediator , and not angels ; and if any religious worship of angels had been agreeable with the christian doctrine , the apostle would never have thus in general condemned it , but with such restrictions and limitations as made it to be evil . therefore to avoid these difficulties , some conclude that by the worship of angels is understood such a worship as was introduced by a pretended revelation of angels ; but against this , we have the concurrent testimony of st. chrysostome , st. hierome , st. ambrose , oecumenius , theophylact , who all agree that it is to be understood of the worship given to angels . so impossible it is for those who either give themselves , or justifie and allow the giving by others , any religious worship to angels , to escape falling under the apostles censure , of being seducers and corrupting the gospel of christ. ( . ) about stricter abstinence and greater severity of life . for these seducers gave out that the christian churches were yet very defective in this matter : and that there were several societies of men , both among the jews and heathens , which went very far beyond them : as the essens , the pythagoreans , the gymnosophists and others ; who far outstript the christians in watchings and fastings , in the hard usage of their bodies , and a total abstinence from wine and flesh , and other lawful pleasures of life . on which account these false teachers represented the christianity , as yet received in these churches , as too soft and gentle an institution , and not answering the character that was given of it ; but if they had a mind to set it off with advantage , it would be necessary for them to take in some of the strictest precepts of those societies , especially relating to meats and marriage , touch not , taste not , handle not : which they magnified as the greatest instances of true religion , self-denyal , humility , mortification ; without which they despised the christian institution as a mean and ordinary thing , requiring only the belief of some great things done and suffered by jesus christ in judea , and the adhering thereto till death , and doing those offices of humanity and kindness to each other , and those duties of religion to god , which all mankind thought fit and reasonable to be done . but these pretended refiners of christianity , were not contented with such common things ; they must set up for something singular , and extraordinary ; so epiphanius observes of the gnosticks in the beginning , that they condemned marriage , and abstained from flesh , that under these pretences they might draw others into their snares . and likewise of the ebionites , one of the sects of judaizing christians , that they carefully abstained from all flesh , and were every day baptised , and celebrated the eucharist only in water , for fear of being defiled with the taste of wine ; wherein they were followed by the encratitae , aquarij , and several others , who affected something out of the way , as a badge of more than ordinary sanctity . and there are scarce any of those who are mentioned as the authors of great mischief to the church , but were remarkable for something of this nature ; as appears by marcion , montanus , manichaeus , severus , and others . and which is observable , this sort of singularity prevailed no where more , than in these parts of phrygia ; where the encratitae very much encreased and continued so to do in the days of epiphanius . so very little effect had this wise and timely caution , given by the apostle in this place , upon those who were willing to be deceived in that , or following generations . cajetan confesses himself to seek what sort of men those were the apostle discourses against ; but it seems most probable to me , that they were a sort of judaizing christians , who endeavoured to introduce the customs of the jewish essens into the christian church . for when st. paul speaks of the jewish customs he mentions no other , but such as were in esteem among them ; he takes no notice of sacrifices which were disesteemed among them ; but let no man judge you in meat , which among them was only bread and salt ; or in drink , which was only water ; or in respect of a holyday or new moon , or the sabbath days ; which as philo relates , they were great observers of . and when he speaks of the customs they would bring among the christians , they were no other than such as were strictly observed among them , viz. great abstinence , hard usage of their bodies , and some religious rites with respect to angels . concerning which the apostle delivers his judgment two ways . . he grants that these things have a shew of wisdom in them ; i. e. that they make so good an appearance to men , as is apt to raise an esteem of those persons in whom it is . first , because they seem to flow from a forwardness in religion , so i render 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which we call will-worship ; but that being a thing of an ill name , doth not so well answer to the shew of wisdom ; for what shew of wisdom is there in doing an ill thing ? this is therefore a readiness of mind to do any thing in religion which men think pleasing to god , whether required by him or not . so hesychius expounds 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and other greek words of a like composition , do imply no more than a voluntary inclination ; as in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which plato useth for a service out of good will , and free inclination : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in xenophon : and st. augustine observes , that in his time , a man that affected to be rich , was called thelo-dives , and he that desired to be thought wise thelo-sapiens ; so according to this analogy , a man that would be thought very religious , would then have been called thelo-religiosus ; taking religiosus in the sense of massurius sabinus , and not of nigidius figulus : i. e. in a good , and not in a bad sense . and so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is a desire of appearing more religious than ordinary ; which is not a thing evil in it self , but depends on circumstances . the next is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , humility , a vertue so graceful , so becoming mankind , with a respect to god and to each other , that whatever makes a shew of that , doth so of wisdom too . the third is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not sparing the body , but using it with hardship to keep it under . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . which words have such a hardness in their construction , as hath caused great variety of interpretations ; which i shall not repeat . that which seems most natural , is , that honour implies a regard to the body and so it only explains what was meant by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; the sense being , not with any regard to the flesh for its satisfaction : which hath a farther appearance of wisdom , not barely in the subjection of the body to the mind ; but as it seems to argue a mind so elevated above the body , that it hath little or no regard to the necessities of it . . notwithstanding all this fair shew of wisdom , the apostle doth really condemn these things as not pleasing to god , nor suitable to the christian religion . for , ( . ) he saith they have only a shew of wisdom . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith st. chrysostome , who certainly understood the force of the words ; the shew , saith he , not the power , therefore not the truth of wisdom . imaginem rationis , humanaeque sapientiae , saith st. jerom. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith theodoret ; so that notwithstanding the fair shew they make , they have no real wisdom in them . ( . ) this new way of worship , though it hath such a specious shew of devotion and humility ; yet it reflects on the honour of christ , as mediator ; and therefore the apostle charges the introducers of it , with not holding the head. if the cerinthians did advance the angels above jesus christ , they were so much the more guilty ; but if these judaizers did only look on them as nearer and more agreeable mediators to us , yet therein they brought a great disparagement upon him , whose office it was to be the sole mediator between god and men. mankind was very excusable in comparison , for finding out other mediators , before god had declared to the world that he had appointed his son to be our only advocate and intercessor ; but for those who own his mediatorship , to make choice of others besides him , is to call in question the wisdom of the father , or the sufficiency , interest or kindness of the son. for if god hath appointed him for this end , and he be able to go through his work , and willing to help all that address themselves to him ; what need to call in other assistants ? yea , what a dishonour is it for him to stand by , and applications be made to them to do that office , which he was appointed alone to discharge ? ( . ) these new inventions though never so plausible , are a disparagement to the gospel , as not containing sufficient , or at least not the most sublime and perfect directions for humility and mortification . for our blessed saviour was so far from being remarkable for these affected singularities , that the freedom and easiness of his conversation , was a great offence to those who understood little or nothing of religion beyond these things . the son of man came eating and drinking , and they say , behold a man gluttonous , and a wine-bibber , a friend of publicans and sinners . not that he gave way to any thing like luxury , or intemperance , who was the most exact pattern of all true and real vertues ; but because they saw nothing extraordinary as to the severity of his life in these matters , they looked on him but as one of the common sort of men , making no appearance of more than usual sanctity , as to eating and drinking . and when johns disciples who were bred up with greater austerity , were really offended that christs disciples did not fast as they did : our saviour puts them off with a parabolical answer ; can the children of the bride-chamber fast , as long as the bridegroom is with them ? which answer might puzzle them more , as not understanding why fasting should be inconsistent with his corporal presence ; yet to let them see that he did not look on fasting , as a duty unsutable to his religion , he tells them , the days would come , when his disciples should have their times of fasting . but the days will come when the bridegroom shall be taken from them , and then shall they fast . so that it is not occasional or anniversary days of fasting , which are condemned here by the apostle , as will-worship , or neglecting the body ; but the imposing a new and severer course of life upon christians , as a way of greater perfection of mortification , than what was required by christ or his apostles . this is that which the apostle calls being subject to ordinances ; and living after the commandments and doctrines of men. theodoret observes that he doth not mean the law by this , but the unseasonable doctrine of these seducers ; and it is evident from the foregoing part of the . v. wherefore if ye be dead with christ from the rudiments of the world : i. e. if ye are freed from the yoke of the law , what reason is there ye should submit to another , which depends only on the authority and invention of men ? but what then ? doth s. paul make it unlawful to submit to any orders or rites appointed by the church in which we live ? by no means . for neither doth the apostle speak of those who had lawful authority , but of seducers ; nor doth he speak of things appointed meerly for order and decency ; but of such things which are supposed by the imposers to have more of true perfection and sanctity in them ; more humility and mortification ; and consequently to be more pleasing to god , than bare obedience to the precepts of christ and his apostles . whoever introduce any such things into the christian church , and maintain any such opinions of them , are justly censured by the apostle here , and fall under the condemnation of seducers . ( . ) these things , whatsoever shew of wisdom and humility they make , are really the effects of pride and folly. ( . ) of pride : which appears , . by a great presumption of their great skill and knowledge in the mysteries of religion , and of what is most pleasing to god ; intruding into those things which he hath not seen , vainly puft up by his fleshly mind . so that here was a great outward appearance of humility and mortification ; but within nothing but pride and vanity . it hath been long observed , that those who strive to exceed others in the outward shews and appearances of humility and neglect of the body , have been most liable to the temptations of sp ritual pride ; i. e. to a high opinion of themselves , and a contempt of others , which they have manifested by an invincible stiffness in maintaining their own opinions ; a readiness to impose them upon others ; and impatience of contradiction from any . . by an affectation of greater humility , than appears in others . these seducers , we see , pretended to nothing more than humility . their worship of angels was from humility ; their neglect of the body from humility too : they made so much shew of it , as gave reason to suspect pride lay at the bottom . for it is more real humility to be contented to be thought proud unjustly , than to labour for such an opinion of more than ordinary humility , as these seducers did . ( . ) of folly ; in two things . . in placing the main of their religion in things that would not bear the weight of it , which the apostle intimates in those words , which all are to perish with the using : i. e. as the greek interpreters explain it , the matters of eating and drinking are no such great things , that so much ado should be made about them . for as our saviour saith , not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man ; for it goeth into the belly , and is cast out into the draught . and therefore saith the apostle , the kingdom of god is not meat and drink , but righteousness and peace , and joy in the holy ghost ; for he that in these things serveth christ , is acceptable to god , and approved of men. . in supposing the following their own inventions to be more pleasing to god , than the observing his own commands . for this seems to be at the bottom of all ; these seducers made no question , but they had found out ways much more pleasing to god , than those which were in common esteem and practice in the christian churches . so that which is called here 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is by the latins rendered in superstitione : i. e. in an opinion of pleasing god by some particular rites of their own ; in making much of their religion to lye in forbearing some things and doing others , which god never required , and are made no parts of the christian religion by christ or his apostles . so that here are two parts of the superstition here spoken of . . forbearing some things as unlawful , which god never made unlawful by any prohibition , touch not , taste not , handle not . the root of their superstition did not lie , as some imagin , in supposing the things which they did forbear as in themselves abominable , as some hereticks did ; but in an opinion , that god would be so much pleased with the meer forbearance of them , that those who design to please god , were bound to abstain from them , although he had never forbidden them . and there is a material difference between these three things . ( . ) abstaining from things as in themselves unlawful to be used . ( . ) preferring the abstinence before the use , on some particular seasons and occasions . ( . ) making the forbearance of them as unlawful ( though not sorbidden ) as necessary to the pleasing of god. there were such who did utterly forbid the use of marriage and meats , of whom the apostle speaks , tim. . . and the christian church , as s. augustine observes , doth not fall under this censure of the apostle , when in some cases it prefers abstinence from both . ille prohibet , saith he , qui hoc malum esse dicit , non qui huic bono , aliud melius anteponit . but yet there may be a superstitious abstinence , without that superstitious opinion ; or else the christian church had no reason to condemn the abstinence of the montanists , who , as tertullian pleads for them , utterly rejected that opinion . neither was it meerly because montanus wanted authority to make laws of abstinence . but tertullian acquaints us with other arguments against it , chiefly from the unsuitableness of it to the design of christianity . and to impose such abstinence as necessary to the pleasing god , is that which the church condemned in montanus ; and the believing it is a superstitious opinion ; though of another sort from that wh ch made the use of them in it self unlawful . for they did it upon an extravagant fancy , that no living creatures were of gods making , but were produced by some other powers in opposition to him ; as appears by the gnosticks , the marcionists , the manichees , and the en●ratitae . but the same reason could not hold as to those judaizing christians , who believed the world and all living creatures were produced by the power of god. for irenaeus saith , that the ebionites did hold that god was the maker of the world ; and therein they differ'd from the cerinthians , as well as in some other opinions ; yet these ebionites pretended to be christians , and universally abstained from flesh , as epiphanius saith : not that they had any reason to account flesh abominable ; but they had learnt from the essens to abstain from it , and thought it greater sanctity so to do . . their superstition did lie in supposing that god would be mightily pleased with their doing some things of their own invention , as the worship of angels was ; which was so far from being commanded by god in the law of moses , that they had thence many arguments against it : but notwithstanding they thought there was so much of humility and complement to god almighty in it , that he could not but be very much pleased with it . and when men lay a great weight of religion upon doing or forbearing things , neither commanded nor forbidden by the law of god , that is so far from being a pleasing worship of god , that it deserves no other name but that of superstition and will-worship ; as they do imply a shew of wisdom , without the truth and power of it . but here arises the main difficulty ; how shall we put a difference between what is pleasing to god , and what is not ; or between true religion and superstition ? for since the apostle implies that some things may have a shew of wisdom in them , i. e. may seem pleasing to god , which are not so ; and other things may be more pleasing to god , which do not make such a shew of wisdom to men ; it seems to be a matter of as great difficulty as concernment to us , to understand the just and true bounds between religious and superstitious worship . this is an enquiry of so great moment and consequence , for the easing our minds of many trouble ome doubts and fears , and setling in them a true notion of religion ; that i shall from hence apply my self to the consideration of the true difference between the reasonable worship of god , and superstition . superstition in the general , is nothing else but an unpleasing worship of god. i do not speak of that worship which relates to a false object ; which is more properly idolatry ; but when that worship is ultimately referred to a true object , as in the worship of angels as mediators , then it is superstition too ; it being an undue way of giving worship to the true god. i shall not trouble my self with an enquiry into the etymology of the words in greek or latin , it being well observed by aquinas , that in this matter we are not so much to observe the etymology of superstition , as the use of the word . and that hath been different according to mens notions concerning religion . those who believed no god at all , or at least no providence , accounted all religion to be nothing but superstition . and it is a weak and silly apology a late commentator on lucretius makes for his saying , so much mischief hath been done by religion ; by religion , saith he , he meant superstition ; for he accounted all religion to be nothing else but superstition . and those in our age , who can find no other difference between them ; but that one is allowed , and the other not ; or one is what we like , and the other what we dislike ; do destroy any real difference between them ; and make only religion a superstition in fashion ; and superstition a religion out of fashion . whereas if there be a god and providence , there must be such a thing as true religion : i. e. there ought to be some acts in us agreeable to the conceptions we have of the divine nature . for , his majesty and power requires our fear ; not an amazing , confounding , unaccountable fear , arising from a perplexity and disorder of our imaginations ; but a just , reasonable , prudent fear , springing from our most serious thoughts and deepest consideration of things . for , if it be impossible for any thinking man to satisfie himself in the train of causes , but he must come to this thought at last , that there is some cause , whereof there is no former cause , but is eternal ; which is that we call god ; then it is impossible if this man pursues his own thoughts , but the first consequence from hence will be , that if this god be the first cause of all things , his power and majesty is so great , as to command a due reverence and fear from us his creatures . this is not such a fear as men have in a storm , or when a sudden calamity seizeth upon them , which makes them at their wits end , and to run they know not whither for present help ; but it is a settled , calm , composed temper of mind ; a fear without consternation ; an awe and reverence of the divine majesty , without terrour and astonishment . for , as the mighty power of god begets fear in us , so the infinite goodness and wisdom of god , not only keep up mens minds from sinking into slavish fear , and horrible despair ; but fills them with comfortable hopes , and a patient and humble trust and confidence in his never-failing providence . and this is the nature of true religion in the minds of men. but because it tends to the honour of our maker , and the incouraging one another to acts of piety and devotion , that this inward sense of our minds be expressed by such external actions as are agreeable thereto , from thence came the necessity of the publick offices of religion , wherein we offer up our prayers and praises to the divine majesty in acknowledgment of our dependence upon him for what we have , or are , or hope for . and there is nothing in all this , but what is highly just and reasonable , and this is true natural religion . but then we cannot deny , that there is too great a natural proneness in mankind to superstition . for , when men cannot shake off the apprehension of a deity , and yet are conscious to themselves that they have offended him ; the very thoughts of him prove so uneasie to them , that they would be glad to believe there were none at all , and give all the advantage to atheistical objections which a willing mind can do : and as plutarch observes of superstitious men , they would be atheists if they durst . but finding still an inward dissatisfaction , and an impossibility of rooting out the fears of a deity ; the next thing is , to think upon some ways to please him , and to mitigate his displeasure against them . and we can hardly imagine any thing so pompous and ceremonious , so mean and servile , so cruel and barbarous , so ridiculous and foppish , but mankind have made use of it to atone the anger of their gods. for , the first effect of superstition , on mens minds , was ; that they durst not make immediate applications to the supreme being , as being too great and powerful for them : therefore they pitched on some inferiour beings to mediate , and to offer up their devotions and sacrifices to him , whom they thought it too great presumption to approach . when thus superstition in the most proper sense of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 had in a great measure supplanted true religion in the world ; then it proceeded to find out such ways and methods of worship , as they thought would be most pleasing to these inferiour deities . they erected temples and altars to them , and set out their images with all the art and splendor they were capable of ; and upon extraordinary occasions they were carried with wonderful pomp and solemnity through the streets , all orders of men attending them with supplications and prayers and costly sacrifices to avert their wrath and displeasure . and they were not content with promiscuous sacrifices , but they studied by all possible means to find out what sacrifices would please them best ; if they fancied it must be something very dear and precious to them , they stuck not at offering up their very children to appease them ; and contrived by loud musick to stop their ears from hearing the hideous cries of their children while they were roasting in the flames . and in their ordinary sacrifices , they were extremely scrupulous , lest any spot or blemish , or number , or unfit season , or so much as colour should be displeasing to the gods they offered them to : some must have white and uneven ; others black and even sacrifices ; some must have their sacrifices offerd at the rising , some at the setting of the sun ; some must have one sort of beasts , and some another ; and some no less than mans flesh would satisfy ; which inhumane sacrifices , on some occasions , did almost universally obtain , before the christian religion prevailed in the world. but again , other deities were presumed to be so nice and squeamish , that nothing was to be offered them but milk , and wine , and honey , and some fruits of the earth . it were infinite to relate the rites and customs of their sacrifices , and all the ways they used to please their gods , and to find out whether they were pleased or not ; by the posture , the tongue , the entrails of their beasts ; by the flying of birds , the feeding of chickens , the falling of a staff , the holes of a sieve , &c. and innumerable ways of divination , by which they flatter'd themselves that they understood the good will and pleasure of their gods , which did not so much satisfy their curiosity , as fill them with perpetual fears , and oppress them with the horrible bondage of superstition ; which exalted almost every thing to the honour of a deity , and made themselves miserable by seeking to please them . but although this were the deplorable state of mankind , forsaken of god and left to their own inventions ; yet such is the weakness and folly of men , that when god himself had given a law to the israelites to regulate their worship , with as much condescension to their weakness , as the wisdom of his laws would permit ; yet so great was the witchcraft of superstition , that they were always almost hankering after the dotage of their neighbour nations . and although they often smarted severely for it ; yet the rod was no sooner off , but they were ready to return to their former superstitious vanities , and were so obstinately bent upon them , that nothing could move them ; not their former experience ; not the unreasonableness of the thing ; not the terrible denunciations of gods heavy judgments against them ; till at last , when there was no remedy , the whole people were carried into captivity ; from whence the greatest part never returned , and their very memory is lost by a mixture with other nations . those who returned , have been so wise ever since , as to abhor that provoking sin of idolatry ; which their ancestors suffered so much for : but by degrees they fell into other kinds of superstitions . for it was thought a mean thing among them to keep to the law ; but the traditions of their elders were looked upon as precious things ; and happy was the man that was strictest in the observance of them . their frequent washings , their additional fastings and prayers , their garments , their postures , their very looks had such an appearance of sanctity above other mens ; that a man who kept only to the law , was of no regard or esteem for piety and devotion . this was the state of religion among the jews when christ appeared , who laid open the foppery and hypocrisie of these great pretenders to extraordinary sanctity . he directed men to the love of god and their neighbours , as the main substantial parts of true religion . and next to his making a propitiation for the sins of mankind by the sacrifice of himself , his great end was to restore true religion to the world , which had been so long buried under the heap of superstitions . and there needed so great an authority as his was , to assure mankind , that nothing was so pleasing and acceptable to god , as unaffected piety , and universal goodness ; which comprehends under it all the duties of temperance , righteousness and charity . and it is one great argument of the providence of god watching over his church , that he hath caused the discourses of our blessed saviour to be preserved by the writings of the evangelists ; without which in all likelihood , the christian religion had been long since lost in the world. for the jewish christians who corrupted christianity , had represented st. peter as so favourable to them ; and so misrepresented st. paul ; that unless christs doctrine had been preserved in his own words , and that by the concurrent testimony of different writers , the christian religion had preserved little more than its name in the world. and yet with all this advantage , such was still the fondness of mankind for their own inventions , that even under the apostles eyes , most of the churches began to be tainted with these corruptions ; partly by the judaizing christians ; and partly by the followers of simon and menander . but they all agreed in something new and mysterious , and more pleasing to god , than the dull and common way of faith and obedience . after the apostles decease , the corruptions still multiplied , and any new pretence to revelations and mysteries , especially being joined with greater abstinence and severity of life , took wonderfully among weak and injudicious christians , and made them apt to despise the churches devotions , as too cold and flat , and not having that life and spirit , that strictness and austerity which appeared among the new pretenders . what disturbance on this account did the spirit of montanus give to the churches of phrygia , galatia , and cappadocia ? the meer pretence to revelation had never done it , had it not been for the stricter laws of fasting and mortification , and greater severity of discipline than was used in the catholick church . it was this which made tertullian swallow the bait he had despised before ; and the force of all his arguments against the church is , we are stricter than you . but notwithstanding all these pretences , the christian church still kept it self within its bounds , making nothing necessary to salvation , but what christ and his apostles had made so ; yet recommending the practice of fasting , as there were just occasions , especially before the great solemnity of easter ; wherein both the sacraments were administred with more than ordinary devotion , and the penitents reconciled to the communion of the church . if we look at this day into the state of the christian world ; how great a part of it is relapsed into almost heathen superstitions , in the worship of images , and saints , and angels as mediators ? and no great difference in the outward solemnities and processions , save that their sacrifices are turned into a consecrated wafer , which is carried in procession , as the heathen gods were wont to be . it is true , there are great pretences to will-worship , and humility , and neglecting the body in several orders of men ; and those are looked on as ways of greater perfection , than living in the world , and doing good in it . which we have no reason to think agreeable to the doctrine of christ or our apostle here . but where there is not only sanctity and merit , placed in such observations , but supererogation too , they flatly contradict s t paul ; for if that be true , these things have far more than the shew of wisdom ; for what wiser thing can any man do , than not only to provide for his own salvation , but for others too ? in the eastern churches , the best part , i fear , of their remaining christianity , lies in the strict observing the fasts and feasts of the church . they mightily despise the fasting practised in the roman church , as not deserving the name of fasting , because they end it at noon , and allow wine and fish for their repasts . although it is said that of late the greeks break the strict fast at noon ; but in st. chrys. and st. basils time they accounted it no fast wherein they did not totally abstain till night . the more eastern christians allow neither fish , nor wine , nor oyl in their lents , and they keep more in the year than the latin church * in the church of england , which approacheth nearest of any in the world to the primitive church , the duty of fasting is recommended upon its true grounds , not as though there were any peculiar sanctity or merit in it , which are superstitious conceits , but to keep the body in subjection to the spirit . it lays no snares upon the consciences of men ; it gives no countenance to hypocritical pretences to fasting ; but it sets before us the example and practice of the primitive church , and according to the temper and moderation then used , leaves persons to judge of their own strength , occasions , times , manner and degrees of fasting ; excepting the fast on good friday or the true antepaschal fast ( which some kept longer than others ) which tertullian saith , was universally observed by the christian church , as a necessary fast , and had been so from the apostles times ; but as to other times a greater liberty was allowed , laxus ac liber modus abstinendi ponitur cunctis ; neque nos severus terror impellit ; sua quemque cogit velle potestas . yet even this church , that is so wise , so moderate , cannot escape the charge of will-worship and superstition , for the orders that are observed in it . but wherein is it that we are liable to this charge ? do we make the orders of the church any parts of our religion ? or think that god is any otherwise displeased with others violation of them , than as it argues a froward , restless , unpeaceable spirit ? but what is it then ? god , say they , hath not commanded these things , therefore they are will-worship and superstition . this is an objection , which for the honour of our church i must remove , before i proceed to what remains . the true case among us is this , the church appoints such orders to be observed in it , which have no express command in scripture ; some utterly refuse them as unlawful , though no where forbidden in scripture ; the question is , whether of these two sorts , those who practise according to these orders , or those who utterly refuse , are liable to the charge of will-worship and superstition ? to clear this , we must state the notion of will-worship and superstition as they are here used by the apostle , and then apply it to the present case . ( . ) will-worship i have shew'd , is nothing but a forwardness to do something that relates to the pleasing of god ; and is said by the apostle to have a shew of wisdom , and therefore can be no more evil in it self , than humility , or neglecting the body ; but whether it be good or evil is to be determin'd by circumstances . ( . ) those circumstances which make it ill are , when men make those things a part of their religion , which god hath neither commanded nor forbidden ; and think god is pleased with their meer doing or abstaining from doing them , and this is true superstition . for there are two things necessary to the notion of it . . that the matter about which it is conversant relate to the pleasing of god. superstition i grant , hath been taken by plutarch and others from him , for a dreadful apprehension of the deity ; but that is rather the foundation of superstition , than the definition of it . for a superstitious man doth both think god to be angry without just cause , and beyond reason ; and to be pleased again without reason . if he thought god inexorable upon his displeasure , he must presently despair ; but because he thinks he may be easily pleased again , therefore he bethinks himself in what way he may best do it ; and so devises several ways of his own , and useth any means suggested by others , though never so unreasonable in themselves , in hopes to please god by them . thence plutarch mentions such mens , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , uncouth ways of worship ; and he observes , that at the same time , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they flatter and reproach god ; they think unworthily of him , as of one that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 very easily provoked ; and yet that he is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as easily changed ; and that is the reason why a superstitious fear puts men upon finding out any ways and methods to please him , though never so unreasonable ; for they looking upon god as a peevish , angry , humoursome being , they have no certain rule to judge what will please him , and therefore follow their own fancy and imagination about it . . that they be mistaken in their judgment concerning what they believe to be pleasing to god , that is , that they judge that to be so , which really is not . so superstition is an excess or over-doing in the matter of worship ; that which doth modum legitimum cultus superstare & excedere , saith vossius ; which etymology he thinks much better than any other . cicero saith , that religion is pius cultus , superstition timor inanis deorum ; i. e. one is a reasonable , the other an unreasonable worship . so a. gellius saith , it is inepta & importuna religio ; a foolish and troublesome religion . festus applies it to those things which are done , praeter morem civitatis ; against the custom prescribed by law. as those of the church of rome do , to things done against the commands of the church : and so not fasting upon saturdays , and fasting upon sundays are both superstitious in their account ; but all the trumpery of the mass , and follies of their worship are by no means superstitious , because required by the church . which however helps us with a good argument to prove that the worship of images , and saints , and angels are required by their church ; or else by their own confession they must be superstitious . but their divines do all agree with aquinas , that men may be guilty of superstition in the worship of the true god ; i. e. when men make choice of something unfit or unreasonable to express their worship of god. and suarez quotes cajetan , as allowing this text to be extended to all superstitious worship not founded in right reason . and cajetan upon the place saith , that although they have a shew of wisdom ; yet not in any honour , saith he , i. e. they deserve no esteem , being only for the satisfying of the flesh : i. e. of a carnal desire as to these external observations . ( . ) the superstition here condemned , lay in the supposing god to be pleased with the forbearance of lawful things ; touch not , taste not , handle not . which if we understand either of meats or marriage , was a forbearance of things in themselves lawful ; but they supposed god would be far better pleased with their forbearance of them . i do not say , it is superstition for any man to abstain from doing what he apprehends to be unlawful by vertue of a general command : for that is a moral duty , and obedience to those places of scripture which bid us abstain from all kind and appearance of evil . but yet it is plain here was a negative superstition in the forbearance of lawful things : and so it was in the dispute between christ and the pharisees about healing on the sabbath day ; they thought it unlawful : christ declares it to be lawful to do good on the sabbath days . here was no positive observance on the pharisees part ; yet here was superstition in them ; and therefore the true notion of superstition doth extend to the forbearance of things in themselves lawful as displeasing to god. but how shall we know , when such a forbearance is superstitious ? by these rules : . if such a forbearance be thought to bring some special honour to god. for then , even dr. ames himself grants it to be superstition , to abstain from lawful things though accounted unlawful by the persons who abstain ; when some singular service and honour is by that abstinence intended : for then he grants it to be a kind of ceremonious worship . the question then is , when this case happens ; for our abstinence from popish or mahumetan superstitions , is not any special act of service , or honour to god. but if we lived where those acts of worship were required by lawful authority ; and we refused to comply with them , that would be a special act of honour and worship to god ; it being a declaration of our minds , that we thought god dishonoured by such acts , and therefore durst not comply with them . it was once a great question among the papists , whether they might lawfully come to our churches , or not ; and if not to our prayers and sacraments , yet to our sermons , to avoid the severe penalties of the laws . and after great debate both by a committee of the council of trent , and afterwards at rome ; it was resolved in the negative , upon this reason , because in our circumstances , it was signum distinctivum cultûs , a mark of distinction as to religious worship , and therefore it was an act of special honour and service to god to forbear . to abstain from pouring out wine , and throwing incense in the fire , is in it self no act of worship ; but when the heathen emperours commanded the christians to do it , in token of compliance with their religion ; their abstaining then from it , was a singular act of worship to god. so in the present case , when men are required by lawful authority , to do things which in themselves are lawful , to testifie their union and conjunction with us in religion ; their refusal in this case is a special act of worship ; and being without ground , is nothing else but superstition . . when men value and esteem themselves as more holy and more in the favour of god on the account of such forbearance . as the pharisees did on the account of their traditions , who believed that god had no such people upon earth as they were ; and despised others who were far nearer to the kingdom of god than themselves , as mere publicans and sinners . and it is very natural to mankind to set a great value upon themselves , for the sake of their affected singularities in religion ; and in a transport of pride and vanity , to tell god himself , as the pharisee did , that they are not like other men : but this is a certain sign , whatfoever they pretend , that they look on the forbearance of the things which others do , as a part of holiness ; and if they do so , it is undoubtedly superstition . for , on this ground we charge the papists with superstition in their ceremonies , because they place holiness in them . it is true , they say they are the instruments to convey some degrees of holiness to them ; but this makes no material difference ; for those who account themselves more in god's esteem for the sake of such things , do attribute some real efficacy to such distinctive characters of themselves , as to the obtaining the favour of god. . when they forbear necessary duties of religion rather than comply with others in lawful things , as communion with the church they live in , in prayers and sacraments : which cannot be denied to be necessary duties ; but if men resolve rather to forbear these , than to join in such ceremonies and prayers as do accompany the performance of them , it is a sign they prefer the following their own imaginations before the joining in communion with the church in the most unquestionable duties of religion : as in the case of the encratitae of old , who thought it unlawful to taste of wine ; and therefore refused to communicate in the eucharist , unless they might have it in water alone . was not this a great superstition in them , rather to forbear communicating with the church , than not to observe their own fancies in what they thought most pleasing to god , as to the manner of doing it ? now to apply this to our own case . we are often blamed for laying too great weight on the ceremonies of this church . but certainly , never any church laid less weight upon its own orders , supposing that it believes them to be just and reasonable . it places no holiness , no merit , no efficacy in them , as to the obtaining the grace and favour of god : it expects obedience only for order and peace-sake ; it hath taken great care by prefaces and canons and rubricks , to prevent any misinterpretation of its intention and design . but on the other side , those who dissent from us , lay so great weight on their scruples , that they will rather hazard breaking a church in pieces , ruining our religion by our differences , losing all the benefit of communion with a church , whose doctrine they approve in all the duties of religious worship ; than they will yield to the allowance of those circumstances of our communion which our church requires . and now on which side the charge of superstition more justly lyes , let all that are impartial judge . so much i thought necessary on this occasion to speak , in vindication of our church from this common imputation of superstition , by those who so little understand what it means . nothing now remains , but to make application of all to our selves . you see how much mischief the shew of wisdom was like to do in the apostolical churches ; let us all have a care of being deceived by it . it was long since observed by menander , that things which were like truth were more easily believed by the generality of mankind , than truth it self . so i am afraid it is about religion , which is the wisdomhere spoken of , that which makes a great shew of it to the world , is more apt to prevail among persons of weak and well disposed minds than true wisdom . for the shew of wisdom strikes more upon the fancy and inclination of such persons , than sober , calm and well-weighed religion ; which seems dull and flat to those who have more warmth and zeal than judgment and discretion . and i do not at all question , but many of the corruptions of the christian church came in , from an apprehended necessity of complying with the heat of some over-zealous people ; who were not contented with the plain and excellent religion of jesus christ ; but they must , as they thought , heighten and improve it , till they had mixed with it the freaks of enthusiasm , or the dotages of superstition . in the church of rome there is in many things a shew of wisdom , in will-worship and humility , and neglecting the body ; and in some of our sects , that seem to abhor will-worship so much , that for fear of it they will not give civil respect to men ; yet they pretend to shew of wisdom in humility and neglecting the body , but after a different manner : others have a shew of wisdom too in a wonderful , i had almost said , superstitious zeal , against what they call will-worship and superstition . but what is to be done in this case ? how shall we avoid being led aside by such a shew of wisdom , on every side ? i shall only lay down some directions , and so conclude . ( . ) fix a true notion of god and the christian religion in your minds . if you judge aright of the divine nature , it will ease your minds of many uneasie thoughts , troublesome fears and superstitious fancies . he is not capable of being flattered or deceived by us ; god is neither taken with outward appearances , nor is he pleased with any thing we do , merely because it is displeasing to our selves , the righteous god loveth righteousness ; and he is pleased best with the innocency , integrity and holiness of our hearts and lives . and for the christian religion , take not your notion of it from the different and uncertain opinions of men , but from the doctrines of christ and his apostles . men do not read the scriptures as they ought to do , with a design to know their religion by them ; but to justifie what they take to be religion from them . one would think it were impossible for any one that considered the sayings of christ or his apostles , to place his religion in being for or against any particular modes or ceremonies of worship ; whereby he may so easily see that it lies chiefly in an excellent temper of mind , holy , spiritual , humble , calm , peaceable , charitable , and a suitableness of action to this temper . this is so plain and easie to be understood , that he must read the new testament with a very ill mind , that doth not find it out . and if you have settled this notion of true religion , it will be a continual touchstone about you to judge of all pretenders . ( . ) set not an equal value on things that are good in order to other things , that you do upon things that are good in themselves . for the one are but the instruments of religion , the other are properly the duties of it . he hath shewed thee , o man , what is good , viz. to do justly , and to love mercy , and to walk humbly with thy god. and this was spoken when very costly sacrifices were offered instead of it ; no less than thousands , and ten thousands ; yea the first-born , and the fruit of their bodies . and therefore god sets a high value on these duties , and so ought we . no one that hath any sense of religion can despise the immediate duties of divine worship ; it being a good saying of pythagoras , mention'd by cicero and plutarch , that we are never better than when we approach to god ; or , as cicero expresses it , when we do rebus divinis operam dare , are employed in the duties of divine worship : but yet to do good is better than sacrifice , and to forgive an injury than the fat of rams . it is a wise observation of maimonides , that the intention of the law of god is to keep men within the just bounds of vertue ; but when men found a stronger inclination to one extreme than to another , they made use of remedies proper to reduce themselves from that extreme , by great severities towards themselves , by watchings , and extraordinary fastings , and other hardships : but when fools saw wise men do these things , they imagined presently that there was an excellency in the things themselves , and that if they did the same things , they should pass for very good men , and be highly in the favour of god. which , saith he , is just like an ignorant fellow , who observing the physicians prescribing physick to his patients , and forbidding eating to them , and finding them to recover upon it , should presently conclude , that surely it is the best way to live upon scammony and aloes , and such like , and to keep himself with the same strictness that was prescribed to the sick ; which instead of preventing a disease , would certainly bring one : so , saith he , do those who use the remedies of diseased minds in a state of health , they spoil a good constitution of their souls , and make it uneasie and troublesome . ( . ) judge of mens pretences , not by their outward shew and appearance , but by the spirit and temper that goes along with them . this was the course the apostle here took ; he regarded not their shew of wisdom and great appearance of humility and mortification ; but he pursued these things to their fountain-head , and there he found nothing but spiritual pride , and vanity of mind . we must not judge easily nor rashly concerning this ; but where the evidence is notorious , we have great reason to sleight and contemn the most sanctimonious appearance , i. e. if there be great uncharitableness and censoriousness towards all who do not comply with them ; great scorn and contempt of all other ways but their own ; great malice and spight against all who go about to oppose them ; where these are , whether in the church of rome , or elsewhere , whatever the shew of wisdom be , this wisdom descendeth not from above , but is earthly , sensual , devilish . but the wisdom that is from above , is first pure , then peaceable , gentle , and easie to be entreated , full of mercy and good fruits , without partiality , and without hypocrisie . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e coloss. . . coloss. . . . . philem. . coloss. . , . v. . v. . v. . v. . a. d. . n. . christian. lup. in tertul . de praescript . c. . nat. alex. saec. . p. . tertull. de praescript . c. . epiph. haer . . p. . bar. ib. n. . n. . bell. de s. b. c. . jansen . preface ep. aux . coloss. chrys. in l. hier. algas . q. . epiph. haer. . p. . haer. . p. . epiph. haer . . p. . philo p. . epiph. p. . v. . philo p. , . plato sym. xen. cyr. paed. . aug. ep. . a. g●ll. l. . c. . v. . matt. . . matt. . , . v. . v. . v. . vid. theod. theophyl . matt. . . . rom. . , . aug. c. faust. l. . c. . tert. de jej. c. . iren. l. . c. . epiph. haer . . p. . aq. . . q. . tan. fabr. not. p. . leviath . ch . . ch . . mich. nau. eccl. graec. effig . p. . bas. hom . de jejun . chris. hom . . ad pop. antioch . * v. job . ludolph . hist. aethipic . l. . c. . n. ● . thom. à jesu de convers. omnium gent. l. . c. . cotovic . itiner . hierosolymit . & syriac . p. . franc. quaresm . elucid . terrae sanctae l. . c. , , , , , . eustrat . zialouski de eccles. orient . graec. p. . metroph . critopul . c. . haud scio , inquit methodius graecus ( apud mich. nau. in eccles. graecae effigie dial. ) unde factum sit ut vos latini a reliquis christianorum nationibus , sic in jejunando recesseritis , ut nulla vobis nè maronitana quidem , quae tota vestra est , consentiat . jejunatis sabbato , feriâ . non abstinetis ab esu carnium ; pisces , & quibusdam in locis , lacticinia , quadragesimali tempore comeditis , solvitis meridie jejunium , &c. de jei. c. . prudent . . cath. hymn . post jejun . v. tert. de jejun . c. . . hier. ep . . ad marcel . aug. c. faust. manich. l. . c. . ad casul . ep. . epiph. in expos. fidei cath. n. . socr. l. . c. . victor . antioch . in marc. . cassian . coll. . c. . voss. etym. cic. l. . de n. d. fest v. religios . aq. . . q. . art. . q. . art. . suarez de rel. tr . . l. . c. . matt. . . . fresh suit , p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 men. mic. . . plutarch de superst . cic. de legib . l. . c. . porta mosis p. . ver. . jam. . . ver. . a vindication of their majesties authority to fill the sees of the deprived bishops in a letter out of the country occasioned by dr. b---'s refusal of the bishoprick of bath and wells. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a vindication of their majesties authority to fill the sees of the deprived bishops in a letter out of the country occasioned by dr. b---'s refusal of the bishoprick of bath and wells. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed for ric. chiswell ..., london : . attributed to edward stillingfleet. cf. nuc pre- . dr. b--- is william beveridge. cf. dnb. reproduction of original in bristol public library, bristol, england. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng beveridge, william, - . church of england -- government. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a vindication of their majesties authority to fill the sees of the deprived bishops ; in a letter out of the country . occasioned by dr. b — 's refusal of the bishoprick of bath and wells . london : printed for ric. chiswell , at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard . mdcxci . a vindication of their majesties authority to fill the sees of the deprived bishops . licensed , may . . a vindication of their majesties authority to fill the sees of the deprived bishops . sir , the account we have received here of dr. b — 's refusal of the bishoprick of bath and wells , hath occasioned great talk , and different censures , as men are divided in their interests and opinions . i know not what to think of it , because i know not the reasons for which he did it ; but it is an unhappy amusement at such a time as this , to which a wise man , who had well considered consequences , would not have given the occasion . i hope it may end all in noise , without any mischievous effects ; but considering how many there are , who are very watchful to improve every accident to the disturbance of the government , and to unsettle mens minds , i cannot forbear giving you my thoughts about it ; tho my tender regard for the person concerned , would have made me silent at any other time . i can easily apprehend several reasons which might move wise and good men , where there are no greater and more pressing obligations to the contrary , rather to chuse an ecclesiastical preferment void by death or cession , than by deprivation ; but our present circumstances are such , as ought to over-rule all niceties ; the mischiefs of such a refusal being so intolerable , as nothing can excuse , much less justifie it , but the absolute unlawfulness of succeeding in such preferments , while the deprived bishop lives ; which would be very odd for them to pretend , who have submitted to the present government . to satisfie you in this matter , i shall briefly consider the first sort of reasons , and shew that they are no reasons in our circumstances ; and then examine the lawfulness of the thing it self . as for the first , it may so happen , that the person deprived , and the person to be promoted , have been old and intimate friends ; and this may grate hard upon the person to be promoted , to succed in the chair of one whom he loves , whose misfortune he pities ; whom he greatly values for his other many good qualities : now if to refuse such a preferment , would keep my friend possessed of it , there were some sense in this ; but i know no other case , wherein t is thought a breach of friendship to succeed a friend in a preferment which he has lost , and which the law says is not , and shall not be his ; when there is no suspicion of foul play in supplanting him , any more than to succeed a dead friend : friendship is so far from being any reason against it , that it should make it desirable to both ; to one , that his friend may get what he has lost ; to the other , that he may have opportunity , if there be occasion for it , to make his friend's misfortune more easie , than a stranger would do . and if friendship be no objection , what should hinder any man from taking a preferment , which another is legally deprived of ? for i must take the legality of it for granted now and argue upon that supposition . we must not take away what is another's ; but surely what is not his , we may accept from those who have power to give it . if one may give , the other may receive ; for let the objection be what it will , it lies as much against the giver as the receiver . they who have lost it , want it ; and what then ? so do a great many men want what is not theirs , what they never had , as well as what they have lost : and must no man take a preferment in church or state , which another wants ? must the good order and government of church and state be sacrificed to the wants and misfortunes of private men ? but there is a more material consideration , which may influence prudent and cautious men , who are well preferred already . the experience of the revolution in hath taught them , how dangerous it may be in case such a revolution should happen , to change their old preferments for new ones , which may be challenged again by their old proprietors . but in our case there is the least to be said for this caution , that can possibly be in any revolution : for it is as vain a thing to hope to secure our selves in such a revolution , by prudence and caution , as it is for a man to fortify his house against the breaking in of the sea : if he take care of the banks , and keep out the sea , his house will escape ; but if the sea break in upon him , he must perish with his neighbours . if there ever be such a revolution as can unsettle what this hath done , god be merciful to this miserable nation ; the prudent and the cautious sinner , and the zealous defenders of the present government , will fare much alike : nay , however they may flatter themselves , the deprived bishops will not long triumph over their new successors . thus in some cases it may be a good reason not to do a very lawful and innocent thing , if it be greatly mistaken and misrepresented , and give a general offence and scandal : but when it appears , that there is nothing but mistake and passion , and private interest , or ill designs on one side ; and a real scandal , and great and publick mischief on the other , no wise man will deliberate long which side to take : none but the enemies of the government can take offence at any man 's succeeding the deprived bishops ; and i think those who have submitted to the government , and sworn allegiance to their present majesties , ought not to be concerned at that : they have offended these men already , and are no better in their opinion than perjured rebels ; and all that they can now gain by humouring them , is to be flattered , and to be laugh'd at . they may for a while give them some good words , as our dissenters did those honest men , who , as they thought , conformed against their consciences ; but they will either secretly abhor them as knaves ; for swearing against their consciences , or despise them as fools for refusing bishopricks . and this is no very good reason for a wise man to court their favour . but on the other hand , what an unpardonable scandal does such a refusal give , both to the enemies , and to the friends of the government , and to the government it self ? whatever may be pretended , the world will not believe that doctor b — refused a bishoprick , but either out of fear or conscience : the first calls in question the stability or continuance of the present government ; the second the authority of it . now this confirms the enemies of the government in their opinion of the unlawfulness to submit to it , and encourages them to attempt its overthrow ; it weakens the hands of friends , and makes them cautious of embarking in a sinking interest , and fills them with new jealousies of the lawfulness of it ; and what just offence this must give to the government , i need not say . the truth is , were i not better perswaded of the good inclinations of their majesties to the church of england , and the general inclination of the nation to support the government , i should dread what might be the fatal consequence of such a miscarriage as this both to church and state. there are always too many , who are glad of such an opportunity to reproach the church , and to possess their majesties with an ill opinion of the clergy , notwithstanding their oaths of allegiance ; and i confess this gives too great an advantage to such misrepresentations , were not the zeal and good affection of wiser men too well known , to be suspected ; and then i hope a single instance of folly can do no great hurt ; for that is the softest name i can give it , on which side soever i view it . this plainly proves , that supposing it lawful to have taken the bishoprick , no other consideration whatsoever can justify the refusal in our circumstances ; and i know not how to suppose that dr. b — could think it unlawful . he submitted to the government , and took the oath of allegiance as early as any man ; and never , that i heard , had the least scruple about it ; and yet this was the time to have been scrupulous , if he would have been so ; for it seems a little of the latest , when he is become a sworn subject to king william and queen mary , to question their authority to make a bishop . and if the former bishops were deprived , and new bishops made , by such an authority as he can swear allegiance to , i cannot understand , that it can be unlawful to accept a bishoprick from the hands of those whom he owns , by his swearing allegiance to them , to have authority to give it ; for this is an authority which belongs to the imperial crown of england . besides this , dr. b — was one of those , who by commission from the dean and chapter of canterbury , hath exercised archi-episcopal authority , during the vacancy of the see , by the deprivation of the a. b. as it is expressed in the commission ; and i take this to be altogether as unlawful ( if either of them were unlawful ) to seise upon the authority of the a. b. upon the account of his deprivation , as to take the character , and exercise the authority of a bishop in the see of a deprived bishop . to receive the consecration on of a bishop , i suppose , is not the thing he accounts unlawful , nor to exercise the authority of a bishop ; and then there is nothing he can think unlawful , but to exercise the authority of a bishop in the see of a deprived bishop ; and then it seems to me as unlawful for a presbyter to do this , as for a bishop to do it , unless a presbyter may do it without the revenues of the bishoprick ; but a bishop must not do it with them ; but this can be no ecclesiastical scruple , as so great a canonist must needs know ; for if the civil power cannot dispose of such temporal matters , it can do nothing . but whatever he thought , his refusing a bishoprick upon great deliberation , after an appearing forwardness to take it , hath tempted people to think , that he judges it unlawful ; and to let him see , how inconsistent this is with his owning the present government , and his exercising the archiepiscopal authority , i shall explain the meaning of it to him , which , i believe he never thought of . if it be unlawful to succeed a deprived bishop , then he is the bishop of the diocess still ; and then the law that deprives him is no law , and consequently the king and parliament , that made that law , no king nor parliament ; and how can this be reconciled with the oath of allegiance , unless the doctor can swear allegiance to him , who is no king , and hath no authority to govern ? if the deprived bishop be the only lawful bishop , then the people and clergy of his diocess are bound to own him and no other ; then all bishops , who own the authority of a new arch-bishop , and live in communion with him , are schismaticks ; and the clergy , who live in communion with schismatical bishops , are schismaticks themselves ; and the whole church of england now established by law is schismatical , and doctor b — himself a schismatick , if he communicate with it . and thus we have no church , or only a schismatical church , as well as no king ; and all that dr. b — has got by refusing a bishoprick , is to prove himself a schismatick , if he live in communion ; or to make a schism , if he separate from it . now will the doctor say this ? or if he dare not say it , will he dare to think it ? and yet if the deprived bishops , though they retain their episcopal character , have no authority or jurisdiction in the church of england , then it must be lawful for other bishops to exercise that authority , which they have lost ; and to succeed in the government of such vacant sees , unless such churches must be deprived of the episcopal authority , while their deprived bishops live . and this brings me to consider the lawfulness of the thing it self , which is so evident when set in a clear light , that it will admit of no dispute with men of sense . in a late letter said to be sent to doctor b — and now printed on the backside of a scandalous rhyming libel upon his sermon of restitution , he is threatned in case he should accept the bishoprick , with the fate of those ecclesiastical schismatical vsurpers , gregory and george of cappadocia , who unjustly invaded the see of alexandria upon the deposing of athanasius the orthodox bishop there . what effect this might have on doctor b — i know not ; but those who have used themselves to good sense , as well as to ancient canons , easily perceive a vast difference between these two cases , as will presently appear . but to represent this matter plainly and easily , i shall briefly state the case , and that i believe will satisfie understanding men , without disputing . . first then in a christian nation and government , the church is incorporated into the state , and the soveraign power has a supremacy in all ecclesiastical causes . to deny this , is either popery or fanaticism : it is plain , the reformation of this , church was founded on this principle ; and it is the constant doctrine of our articles , homilies , and canons , and they are our rule considered as members of the church of england . . this supremacy , though it do not extend to the administration of holy offices or church censures , yet it reaches the persons and external jurisdiction of bishops , and the other clergy , and the regulating and ordering the externals of religion : as the making and deposing bishops , when there is just cause for it , belongs to the supremacy ; which authority was exercised by the iewish kings over the high priest himself : and to resolve all this into a meer ecclesiastical authority , is to set up a pope , or a presbytery , or a national synod , above the supream power ; and we may as well say at this day , that the supream power has no authority to make a bishop , because by the ancient canons and practice of the church , a bishop ought to be freely and canonically elected by the other bishops of the province , or by the clergy and people of the diocess ; as that it cannot depose a bishop from the exercise of his episcopal authority within their dominions , without a synod or council . . when a church is incorporated into the state , an offence against the state is a just reason to depose a bishop from the exercise of his episcopal authority in such a state : especially if such bishop or bishops wholly disown the authority and government of the state , and refuse to submit to it : the denial of the king's supremacy in ecclesiastical causes , was thought a good reason to depose bishops ; and to deny their civil authority , is somewhat more than that . this is as certain and evident , as that the church is and must be incorporated into the state ; for if bishops , who oppose and disown the authority of the state , must not be deposed from the exercise of their authority in such a state , then the church must be divided from the state , and be independent on it ; such men may be bishops of the church who are no subjects of the state ; which is a contradiction to the very notion of a church incorporated with the state. . and therefore we must distinguish between an ecclesiastical and canonical deposition of a bishop for heresie , or other ecclesiastical crimes ; and a state deprivation . the first concerns the character , and ecclesiastical communion ; it is the censure of the church , which concerns him as a bishop ; and when it is ratified and confirmed not only by a provincial or national synod , but by a general council , such a deposed bishop is no longer a bishop of the catholick church , and no christian must communicate with him as a bishop : but a state-deprivation does not concern the character ; such a man may be a bishop of the catholick church still , if he do not fall under church-censures , for heresie or other crimes ; but it only concerns the exercise of his episcopal authority in any diocess within the dominions of that state , or enjoying any ecclesiastical benefice in it . and if we will not allow the supreme power of a nation to judge , who shall be bishops in their dominions , and enjoy the revenues of the church , which are the gift of the state ; you leave the supream power no authority or jurisdiction over ecclesiastical persons . . and this makes a great difference between succeeding an orthodox bishop uncanonically deposed , and succeeding an orthodox bishop deprived by an act of state. if a bishop be deposed by an heretical synod upon false suggestions , and publickly known to be false and malicious , and be own'd and acquitted by a council of orthodox bishops , it is usurpation to invade his see , a breach of catholick communion , and a schism in the catholick church , which was the case of athanasius and george of cappadocia , who succeeded him : but if a bishop otherwise orthodox , is guilty of such an offence against the state , that he is deprived of the exercise of his episcopal office , neither the faith nor the communion of the church is concerned in it , but only the authority of the state , which obliges both the clergy and the laity in such cases ; and when neither the catholick faith nor catholick communion are concern'd , it can be no ecclesiastical offence to succeed in such a bishoprick , but a due submission and compliance with that authority , to which the church in a christian nation ought to be subject . the reason why these matters are not so acurately distinguished by some men , is because they were not at first distinguished when the empire became christian , and the church was at first incorporated into the state. the zeal of the christian emperors for the service of the church , and that great opinion which at that time they deservedly had of the piety and prudence of the governours of the church , made them leave the government of the church in the same state they found it in , when the church was a distinct society from the state ; and in consequence of this , they reserved all causes relating to bishops to the cognizance of their own synods , without distinguishing between offences against the state , which properly belong to a civil cognizance , and those which were of a pure ecclesiastical nature . this soon created great trouble to princes , and by degrees grew into the omnipotent power of the bishop of rome , which domineered over emperors themselves , and set the church above the state. the reformation of our church began with the reformation of this abuse and church-usurpation , and restored our princes to that supremacy , which both the laws of god , and the reason and nature of sovereign power gives them over all persons , in all causes , as well ecclesiastical as civil : and now an offence against the state , is as just a reason for a state-deprivation by the sole authority of the state , without the authority of synods or councils ; as heresie and schism , and other crimes are of ecclesiastical censures . this authority , as i observed before , the jewish kings exercised even over their high-priests , as solomon deposed abiathar for following adonijah to make him king , and placed zadock in his stead ; which was a pure state-quarrel , and done by his sole authority , without consulting the sanhedrim in it . thus when iudea was under the government of the romans , they changed the high-priests every year ; tho by the institution of god it was for life ; and this in our saviour's days , who never reproved them for it , nor separated himself or his disciples from the communion of such schismatical vsurping high-priests , who succeeded in the places of their living predecessors without a canonical deposition . the grand signior at this day makes and unmakes the patriarch of constantinople at pleasure , and no man blames the patriarch who succeeds . dr. sherlock in his preface to the case of allegiance , took notice of this as matter of fact , without enquiring into the reasons . his answerer had nothing to return to it , but by denying the legal authority of this government ; which is just nothing to the purpose : for if a legal government , by their authority and supremacy , can depose bishops , and promote new ones ; then all their arguments against succeeding in the sees of such bishops as are not canonically deposed by an ecclesiastical authority , are utterly lost ; and besides that , if this answer be good , no man ought to question these new promotions , who owns the authority of the present government . the truth is , the same objections which are now made against the promotion of these new bishops , are equally strong , and as eagerly urg'd at this day by the papists against our first reformers : for they were promoted to bishopricks , while the former popish bishops were living , and not canonically deposed by any act of the church , but only by the authority of the state ; and there denying the supremacy of the king , was one , and none of the least of those doctrines , which they were deposed for ; and yet that only rejects the king's ecclesiastical authority ; and therefore as it is only an offence against the state , so it is a much less offence , than utterly to renounce their authority in civil and ecclesiastical causes , as our deprived bishops now do . i shall not need to enlarge on these things , which are plain and obvious at the first proposal : if you have any opportunity of seeing dr. b — , desire him to consider again of it ; and though he may repent too late to do himself any good ; yet if he discover his mistake , common justice to the government , under whose protection he lives , and to their majesties , to whom he has sworn allegiance , and who had placed such a mark of favour and honour on him , had he known how to value it , obliges him publickly to own his mistake , which is the only recompence he can now make . i am sir , your humble servant . finis . books lately printed for richard chiswell . a new history of the succession of the crown of england , and more particularly from the time of king egbert , till king henry the viii . collected from those historians who wrote of their own times . a discourse concerning the unreasonableness of a new separation on account of the oaths ; with an answer to the history of passive obedience , so far as relates to them. a vindication of the said discourse , concerning the unreasonableness of a new separation , from the exceptions made against it , in a tract called , a brief answer to the said discourse , &c. an account of the ceremony of investing his electoral highness of brandenburgh with the order of the garrer at berlin , iune . . by iames iohnston esq and gregory king esq his majesties commissioners . dr. freeman's sermon at the assizes at northampton , before the lord chief justice pollexfen , august . . — his thanksgiving sermon before he house of commons , november . . dr. tenison's sermon before the queen , concerning the wandring of the mind in god's service , feb. . . — his sermon before the queen , of the folly of atheism , feb. . . dr. fowler 's sermon before the queen , march . . the bishop of sarum's sermon , at the funeral of the lady brook , feb. . . — his fast sermon before the king and queen , april . . mr. fleetwood's sermon at christ church on st. stephen's day . a true and impartial history of the most material occurrences in the kingdom of ireland during the two last years . with the present state of both armies . published to prevent mistakes , and to give the world a prospect of the future success of their majesties arms in that nation . written by an eye-witness to the most remarkable passages . a full and impartial account of the secret consults , negotiations , stratagems , and intregues of the romish party in ireland , from . to . for the settlement of popery in that kingdom . a ground plot of the strong fort of charlemont in ireland , with the town , river , marshes , boggs , and places adjacent . drawn by captain hobson , price pence . an exact ground plot of london-derry , with the river , woods , ways and places adjacent , by the same captain hobson , price d. there is preparing , and will shortly be published , a prospect of limerick , bearing due west , exactly shewing the approaches of the english army , with the batteries and breach . anglia sacra : sive collectio historiarum , partim antiquitus , partem recenter scriptarum de archiepiscopis & episcopis angliae à prima fidei christianae susceptione ad ann. . nunc primum in lucem editum . pars prima de archiepiscopis & episcopis ecclesiarum cathedralium quas monachi possederunt . opera henrici whartoni . this book will be ready for publication by the fourth of iune next : subscriptions will be taken till the first of iuly . proposals for the same may be had of richard chiswell , and most other booksellers in london and the country . an answer to several late treatises, occasioned by a book entituled a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome, and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it. the first part by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : or : ) an answer to several late treatises, occasioned by a book entituled a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome, and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it. the first part by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed by r.w. for henry mortlock, london : . errata: prelim. p. [ ]. a second part with title, a second discourse in vindication of the protestant grounds of faith ... london, , was published during trinity term. reproduction of original in duke university library and huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng stillingfleet, edward, - . -- discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome. catholic church -- controversial literature. church of england -- relations -- catholic church. idols and images. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion imprimatur , sam. parker r. in christo patri ac d no. d no. gilberto , arch. episc. cantuar. à sac . dom. april . . an answer to several late treatises , occasioned by a book entituled a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it . by edward stillingfleet d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . the first part. london , printed by r. w. for henry mortlock , and are to be sold at his shop , at the sign of the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . . the general preface . it is not for any pleasure i take in controversie , nor out of a resolution to maintain what i have once written , that i expose my self again to the censures of some , and the rage of others , in defence of our church against the church of rome : but out of a just sense of the weight and goodness of the cause i have undertaken ; which ( if my affection to it hath not strangely blinded my judgement ) doth highly concern us as men , as english men , and as christians . for it is the cause of sense and reason , against the absurd doctrines they impose on both ; it is the cause of our nation against the usurpation and tyranny of a forrain power ; it is the cause of the true faith and christianity , against the errors and corruptions of the roman church . to abandon such a cause as this , were to betray the things which ought to be most dear to us : for we cannot be reconciled to that church on any easier terms , than renouncing our sense and reason , enslaving our country , and hazarding our salvation . and what can they give us in exchange for these ? it was the last of those three heads , which gave occasion to the late so much railed at , and so little confuted book : which no sooner appeared , but as if some dreadful monster had risen out of the earth , some crossed themselves and kept as far out of the sight of it , as they could ; others made hideous out-crys and grievous complaints ; and the more fearful sort were forbidden either looking on it , or entertaining any discourse about it . upon which i pleased my self that i had not added another chapter to the book ; for if that number had agreed with the ten particulars , it had passed among them for the beast with seven heads and ten horns ; and they would have been glad their city upon seven hills could have been so excused . but this unusual noise and clamour awakened the curiosity of many who love to see strange sights ; and that which otherwise might have been wholly neglected as a book , was enquired after and looked into , being represented as a monster . but when they found that this evil spirit ( as they accounted it ) which themselves had raised , was not to be laid again by hard words and ill language ; they began to consider what other course was to be taken to suppress it . and forthwith there starts up a young sophister among them , and bids them be of good heart ; for by letting flie at him some squibs and crackers he did not question , but he should put this monster into such a rage , as to make him fall upon himself ; which design being highly approved ; in a short time came forth that dapper piece , called doct. stillingfleet against doct. stillingfleet . it was a notable plot , and cunningly managed , as the reader may see by the following answer to it . after him a graver person undertakes the service ; but as hasenmullerus tells us , when ignatius loyola sent one of his brethren at rome to dispossess a person , he gave him this instruction , that he should be sure to come behind the devil , if he would drive him out ; accordingly this n. o. steals quite behind my book , and began to confute it at the wrong end , hoping by that means to drive out the evil spirit which he supposed to lodge in the body of it . which he hath performed with great dexterity and success , as the reader may be fully satisfied in the reply here following . these two i undertook , before any other appeared , and intended to have published these two answers by themselves ; but finding others that had written against me on the same argument i was willing to bring as much as i could together to prevent confusion or repetition . all which relating to the principles of faith , and the rosolution , and rule of it , i made account to have dispatched at once ; but finding the book begin to swell into too great a bulk , i have respited some parts of it to another opportunity . when those two men had done their feats , an ancient and experienced exorcist ; ( and yet for all that no conjurer ) saw plainly this spirit must be conjured down ; and thefore knowing the great efficacy of charms , he gives his book the title of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 stillingfleeton . which words put me almost in as great a fright as the holy chair would have done ; i began to consider , whether mengus or any other of their skilful men had ever used those emphatical words before ; but i am willing to believe it was the sole invention of j. v. c. and i doubt not but they will do well hereafter in exorcisms , especially after the holy potion , when the person to be dispossessed is made sufficiently sick with rue and sallet-oyl and other excellent physick for devils . i find by some of their authors , it is a great matter to get the right name of the spirit ; this j. v. c. hath hit unluckily , in calling this monster the leviathan sporting in the waters , since they have thrown out so many empty vessels for him to play with . and his three books of charms , have been no unpleasant entertainment ; but he is gone ; and i love not to tread hard on the graves of my enemies . what there appears material in him ( if anything do so ) i shall consider it in its proper place ; chiefly for the sake of my iudicious adversary dr. t. g. who was the first and i think the only person that hath discovered his book to be a learned treatise . but my generous adversaries , finding so little success in single attempts , they next fall upon me with chain-shot ; viz. a collection of several treatises against doct. stillingfleet . to make up the number , they bring in one before published , to try an experiment what force that can have in conjunction which had none of it self . the first undertaker therein , is , the very calm and ( according to his new christian name ) serene mr. cressy , the man that hath learnt to mortifie passions by mystical divinity ; but is so far from being sublimed and rectified , by that chymical way of devotion , that he seems yet to remain in the very dregs of them : the man , that hath so accustomed him-self to legends , that he cannot write against an adversary , without making one of him . and although there be many very pleasant ones in his church-history , yet i hardly think there are many more wonderful , than ( if his insinuations had any colour of truth in them ) the first part of my life had been . for by making me so active in those times , when i was uncapable of understanding what they were , he seems to represent me as one that had so passionate a zeal for presbytery in my cradle , that i would suck of none but a scottish nurse ; that the first word i pronounced was covenant ; that i would go to school to none but lay-elders ; and was cursing meroz before the parliament at eight years old . is not this a hopeful beginning for a good legend ? will he , saith he , or they damn the execrable covenant ? as though , i had ever any thing to do with it but when i renounced it ! if i should tell him , that as great a friend as he takes me to have been to presbytery and the late times , even then i was entred into episcopal orders by a most worthy and learned prelate of our church ; that , i never subscribed any address to the usurpers , as some in the world have done , and those who would now be thought the kings most loyal subjects ; that i never drew off any one person from their allegiance to the king to submit to to the popes nuncio , ( let those who did it clear themselves ) even such an apology would give too much countenance to so pitiful a calumniator . i thank him that he hath not charged me with laying the first platform of presbytery at geneva , or having a hand in the first and second admonitions in the days of queen elizabeth ; and i might as will charge him with the gunpowder treason , as he doth me with any thing about the covenant . by this we may guess what ecclesiastical history we are to expect from him , who writes so at random about the matters of our own times . but the man is to be pitied ; he was under one of mother juliana's fits , he writ with a good mind , but he knew not what . some vent must be given to a violent fermentation , else the vessel might burst asunder ; and i hope the good man is somewhat more at ease , since he purged away so much choler . i assure him i can with pleasure read what he wrote with rage ; and laugh at the violence of such passions , which like a gun ill charged may give fire and make a great noise , but doth the greatest mischief to him that holds it . if i would pursue him through all his heats , i must undergo the ordeal-tryal , touch firebrands without hurting my self : which although i might do , yet i know my adversaries are so implacable , that even that would not convince them of my innocence . i leave him therefore to grow cooler and wiser ; but i beseech him for his own sake , that he would attempt no more the justifying the union of nothing with nothing , and for the sake of religion , that he would not call god any more an incomprehensible nothing ; a description fit only for the atheists catechism . if there were any thing in his railing book which looked like reason or argument i might perhaps at my leisure be perswaded to answer it ; though i do not love to have to do with mad men , no not in their lucid intervals . the next that follows is one that goes about to vindicate the roman churches devotions and doctrine of repentance and indulgencies , he is a meer pattern of meekness , compared with s. c. , he writes pertinently and without the others bitterness and passion . his great endeavour is to clear the honour of his church , from the absurd doctrines and practices charged upon it . and the force of all , he saith lies in this , that where the church hath defined nothing in her councils , it is to no purpose to object that such doctrines are taught by some in it ; for those who defend their separation from the communion of a church by reason of its erroneous or corrupt doctrines must make it appear that those are taught by it , and the belief of them also exacted from its subjects . to this purpose s. c. likewise speaks ( in some of his lucid intervalls ) and i perceive this is become a common topick among them , to take off the odium of such opinions and practices as they are willing enough , but ashamed to defend , which i shall in this place briefly remove . the thing i was to prove was , that persons in the communion of the roman church do run great hazard of their salvation : for which i instanced particularly in several opinions and practices which are very apt to hinder a good life which is necessary to salvation . now a twofold question here arises . . whether the church may justly be charged with those doctrines and practices ? . whether , although the church may not directly be charged to have decreed them in her councils , yet so much countenance and encouragement be not commonly given to them in that church , that particular persons do run great hazard of their salvation by reason of them ? for which we are to consider , that it hath been the method of the roman church to allow many more things in common belief and practice than it hath dared for very shame to decree in councils , especially when such things have been objected by her enemies . in this case it hath been thought the most prudent course for the councils to speak deceitfully and in general terms , so as to give as little advantage as may be to their enemies , and yet to retain ground enough to uphold their former opinions and practices : which still continuing in vogue and reputation , become so much the more dangerous to mens souls , because their councils having had opportunity to have declared effectually against them were so far from it , that by their doubtful expressions they have left ground enough for the continuance of them . now from hence the directors of conscience among them frame their opinions , and the people think it their duty blindly to follow them ; and supposing any one among them should scruple any such doctrine or practice , to whom must he resort but to his confessors , and will any such dare to condemn what is generally received although not decreed by councils ? or if he should , dare any person rely on his private judgement when it is contrary to the most received doctrine or practice ? besides , the promises of infallibility are supposed by them to be primarily made to the church , and only by way of representation to the council ; and therefore doctrines or practices generally received and allowed by the teachers of the church and the guides of conscience , must be received by them as true and good ; for otherwise those promises would fail to the church in its diffusive capacity , and consequently , supposing no general council , it were possible for the most erroneous and pernicious doctrines and practices to prevail in the church , which must utterly overthrow all pretence to infallibility . but in our present case we need not run so far , for i shall here prove that in the most material points insisted on by n. o. viz. the doctrine of the efficacy of the sacraments ex opere operato , and of indulgences , we do justly charge the church of rome even in the decrees of her councils with laying such a foundation , as doth overthrow the necessity of a good life . the way he takes to vindicate those points from this consequence is this , that the sacramenta mortuorum , viz. baptism and penance which confer justifying grace do require a subject rightly disposed ; and the sacramenta vivorum , viz. confirmation , eucharist and extreme unction , do require the receiver to be actually in a state of grace ; the same , he saith of indulgences , that the benefit of them doth suppose a man put into a state of grace by the sacrament of penance ; so that the whole matter is put upon this issue , whether their doctrine concerning the conditions by which a man may be put into a state of grace , be not such as doth overthrow the necessity of a good life ? and it being acknowledged that the sacrament of penance doth confer the grace of justification on all persons rightly disposed for it , our only business is to enquire what necessary conditions their church requires in order to it . for which we appeal to the words of the council of trent , for session . c. . that plainly determins , that imperfect contrition or attrition although it cannot bring men to justification without the sacrament of penance , yet it doth dispose men for obtaining the grace of god by the sacrament of penance . if we joyn this now with another decree of the same council , viz. * that the sacraments do conferr grace on all those who are disposed to receive it ; i leave it now to any one to judge , whether from hence it doth not necessarily follow , that all those that have but imperfect contrition , or bare attrition for their sins , are by the sacrament of penance put into a state of grace , according to the doctrine of the council of trent ? and how far this overthrows the necessity of a good life , will appear from the explication of contrition and attrition given by the same council . contrition is defined , to be , a grief of mind and detestation of sin committed , with a purpose of sinning no more ; therefore imperfect contrition or attrition must be such a grief and detestation of sin past , as implies but an imperfect purpose of sinning no more . from which it evidently follows , that by the doctrine of this council a man may be put into a state of grace without so much as a firm or perfect purpose of sinning no more . and can there be a doctrine invented by men that doth more effectually destroy the necessity of a good life than this doth ? for the state of grace puts a man actually into the favour of god ; and supposing him to fall into mortal sin afterwards , all he needs to do , is only to repeat the same kind of attrition and receive the sacrament of penance and he is perfectly sound again and recovers the favour of god. i know the council there saith , that this attrition must exclude voluntatem peccandi , as o. n. observes ; but that implies no more than a man 's not having at that time a purpose to sin again ; and the council distinguishes it from the propositum non peccandi de caetero , or the purpose not to sin again , which the council applies to contrition as the other to attrition . and cajetan himself quoted by o. n. calls it an imperfect purpose of not sinning . so that after all the evasions which have been yet , or can be produced , the roman churches doctrine of repentance and indulgences doth most dangerously obstruct devotion and a good life . i desire therefore o. n. and his brethren to be a little more sparing in their censures of us as unfaithfully representing the doctrine of their church , for we understand it much better , and represent it more truly , than they desire . but supposing the words of the council were ambiguous in this matter , what better help can we have to understand it , than the sense of their most eminent and learned instructours of conscience ? and those not of the single order of jesuits , as some would have it believed , but of all sorts among them . melchior canus who was far enough from being a friend of the jesuits , saith expresly , although a man knows he hath not contrition but bare attrition , he may come to the sacrament and receive grace by it ; for which he gives this reason , because baptism and penance , are sacramenta mortuorum ; and therefore those who are under mortal sin if they have attrition whereby the impediment is removed may not only come to them , but go away with the grace conferred , because the sacraments always conferr grace , where the impediment is removed . and he is followed herein , saith morinus , not only by lopez , pesantius , nicol. isambertus professor of divinity at paris , but by the fargreatest number of their modern divines . i shall not so much as mention the jesuitical casuists whose testimonies are produced in the jesuits morals , or provincial letters , such as filliutius , amicus , sa , escobar , bauny , &c. but i shall name some of far greater authority among them . o. n. frequently cites paul layman with expressions of esteem , and he determins that true contrition is not necessary to the sacrament of penance after the commission of mortal sin , but attrition is sufficient although a man know it to be only attrition . if they had made attrition only necessary to the sacrament of baptism , they might have pleaded , that they had not destroyed the necessity of a good life afterwards to preserve the grace conveyed in baptism ; but we see in the case of mortal sin afterwards toties quoties no more is necessary but a new act of attrition , and that not only when a man mistakes it to be contrition ; but though a man knows it to be bare attrition . i confess cardinal tolet , although he asserts the substance of the doctrine , yet he saith attrition only serves when it is mistaken for contrition ; but this morinus tells us the later divines laugh at and explode . cardinal lugo not only contends for the doctrine , but asserts it to be the doctrine of the council of trent , viz. that attrition with the sacrament of penance is sufficient for the grace of justification ; and quotes suarez , vasquez and maeratius , as sufficiently proving from the words of the council , that attrition is the next disposition to the grace of justification conveyed by the sacrament ; and this attrition he there shews against sylvius , doth not imply an imperfect love of god above all ; which is directly contrary to o. n. and in another place he proves , that a man is not bound always to contrition for his sins although they be mortal ; for saith he , if he were , then a man having attrition cannot be excused but only by invincible ignorance from a new mortal sin in coming to the sacrament of penance without contrition , because some time is commonly supposed to intervene between a mans attrition and his justification by the sacrament , in which time he would sin mortally by omitting contrition , if he were obliged to it ; but this , saith he , is against the common opinion of divines , that a man contracts any new guilt by omitting contrition . nay he afterwards determins , that a man that hath received the sacrament of penance with bare attrition is not bound , under the guilt of mortal sin , for omitting it , to an act of contrition at the point of death ; which is , he saith , the commonly received opinion among them , and he quotes diana , coninch , becanus , layman , fagundez , faber , turrianus , salas and others for it . the great argument he brings , is , because confessors do not think themselves obliged to put men in mind of an act of contrition at that time as necessary , as common experience shews . and are not such confessors excellent guides to heaven the mean while ? if they be , they have found out a much broader way and wider gate than ever christ intended . what not one single act of contrition necessary ! no , not at the point of death ! what pity it is for sinners , you have not the keeping of heaven-gates ? how do they want the sacrament of penance in hell , for no doubt there is attrition good store there ! but above all of them commend me to honest gregor . de valentiâ , who not only makes contrition unnecessary , but saith it is rather a hindrance to the effect of the sacraments . from whence morinus justly infers , that a confessor ought not to perswade the penitent to contrition ; nor the penitent to endeavour after it . nay morinus shews , that grave men and famous in their church do assert that a penitent having received the sacrament of penance , is not bound to so much as one act of contrition or the love of god in order to his reconciliation with god. yea , although a man hath hated god to the last act of his life if he receives the sacrament of penance , they deny that it is necessary for him to be contrite for his sins or to love god. nothing could go beyond this but what follows in him , that the excellency of the evangelical sacraments above the legal consists in this , that the evangelical sacraments have freed us from the most heavy yoke 〈◊〉 of contrition and the love of god. o admirable guides of conscience ! i do not at all question but jews , turks and heathens have a much better and truer notion of repentance , than these men ; the pagan philosophers were christians to them . and what injury have i done them now , in charging such things upon them which obstruct devotion and overthrow the necessity of a good life ? for i hardly think it possible to contrive a doctrine more effectual for that end , than to tell men that the sacraments of the gospel do free men from that heavy yoke contrition and the love of god. but supposing there were no such foundation for this doctrine in the council of trent , as we see there is would there be no danger to mens salvation , if their confessors generally told then these things , and they knew it to be th● current opinion among them ? is there 〈◊〉 danger of falling into the ditch whe● the blind lead the blind , unless general council expresly allow of it ? 〈◊〉 there no danger by empericks a●● mountebanks , unless the whole co●ledge of physicians approve them ? an● of all sorts of empericks , the worst a●● such casuists and confessors . is ther● no way to magnify the sacerdotal office unless they have a power to trepan soul into eternal flames for want of true repentance ; by making them believe th● priests absolution with bare attritio● will make all even with god ? or 〈◊〉 this doctrine only a decoy to draw great sinners into your nets ? and all this while is your church innocent , which at least sees and will not reform these things ? in a. d. . . of september and . may , . the congregation of the inquisition at rome under alexander . . took upon them to censure . several propositions of the late casuists , as scandalous and pernicious to the souls of men , but not one of them relates to this doctrine of repentance , although the jansenists in france had complained of it . whence could this arise but from looking on it as the doctrine of their church ? indeed i find that on may . . the pope caused a decree to be published straitly forbidding all persons in their debates about attrition , to condemn each other ; but it is worth our while to understand , what this controversie was , viz. whether bare attrition doth require an act of the love of god ; and although the negative be there said to be the more common opinion , yet the pope would not have the others that affirmed it to be censured . but not the least word against the sufficiency of bare attrition . are any of the books censured which assert this doctrine ? nay , they are published with great approbations . are any of the defenders of it discountenanced ? nay , they are persons in the highest esteem , dignity , and authority among them . are any cautions given to confessors to beware of these doctrines ? nay , these very books are purposely written and approved for their instruction and use . and if their church be innocent after all this , so was the iewish church in our saviours time ; for the corruptions that were then among them had no decree of the sanhedrin , that i find , for them ; it was only their schoolmen and casuists , the scribes and pharisees which introduced them . and yet our saviour thought mens souls in danger , when he bid them beware of the leaven of the pharisees . i confess when we debate the causes of separation from their communion , we think it then reasonable to alledge no more , than what they impose on all to believe and practice ( and we have enough of all conscience in that kind without going farther ) but when we represent the hazard of salvation to particular persons , we may then justly charge them with the pernicious doctrines and practices which are received and allowed among them , although not decreed by the church in councils . for otherwise it would be just , as if one should say to a man , that asked him , whether he might safely travel through such a country ? yes , without doubt you may , for although there be abundance of thieves and high-waymen , yet the prince or the state never approved them , or gave them licence to rob travellers . do you think any man would venture his person or his purse , on no better security ? yet such security as this , if it were true is all that such moderate men as o. n. or his brethren can give as to the roman church ; for they dare not deny the bad consequence of the doctrines and practices charged upon them , but only say , the church hath not decreed them . so much i thought necessary to say to this newest and most plausible pretence , which is made use of by the best advocates for the roman church . and now farewel to moderation ; for the two next which appeared on the stage against me , were two jesuits ; the one sent over a book , which if we look only at the bulk and thickness was a very substantial one , called by an odd antiphrasis , reason and religion : i have endeavoured to draw off all the spirit i could find in it , in the following discourses , but i am forced to leave a vast quantity of phlegm and caput mortuum behind . i shall say no more of him here , having occasion to speak so much of him in the discourses about the principles of faith , which will in a little time be ready to appear . the other is the stout defender of lgnatius loyola and the whole order of jesuits ; what , one man undertake to defend the jesuits as to their principles and practices ! and that in this age , which so well understands their maxims and conduct ! and in england too , where those of other orders and the secular priests love them so dearly ! but nothing is too brave or difficult , for a jesuit to attempt , however he comes off in it . as to ignatius loyola , i will come to terms with him ; if what he confesses as to his ignorant zeal , pious simplicity , frequent visions and extasies , extravagant preaching , unmannerly contempt of superiours do not prove him a fanatick , i am content to let him go . but what if ignatius himself being grown old , did suspect such frequent extasies and visions for illusions ? i desire him to look ribadineira , in his larger life to that purpose . but this matter of fanaticism must be referred to another place . i shall now only give a tast of the jesuits excellent way of defending the principles destructive to government which i charged his order with . the first was , that government was so originally in the people , that they by their representatives may call their soveraign to an account and alter the form of government . now mark this answer . this principle ( whatsoever truth it may have in speculation ) is by no means to be preached to the people , who are apt enough of themselves to stretch cases and pick quarrels with their best governours , yet was it taught many ages before the jesuits were so much as thought of . welfare the man for his plain-dealing ; the doctrine it seems is true enough , but the people are not fit to be trusted with the management of it , no , not in their places and callings ; no , no , let the jesuits alone with these things , they know just the very nick of time , when to be iudges and executioners too . the next principle is , the popes power of deposing princes , to which he again answers roundly . you are then to know , sir , that the doctrine was long ago taught by almost all orders and professions , seculars , regulars , divines , lawyers , before the jesuits were in being . a very catholick doctrine it seems it is ! what a stirr do other people make with mincing this matter , i know not how ; give me a man that speaks out , and lets princes understand what their general doctrine is in this matter , lest they may possibly be deceived , as though it were only the bold assertion of some few persons among them . what wonder then saith he , if bellarmin and . or . more jesuits were carried away with such a torrent of doctors who went before them ? nay , in my opinion the only wonder is , how any persons among them dare think otherwise , this doctrin having as he tells us , so catholick a consent to the truth of it . but in earnest sir , is the doctrine true , or false nay , sir , i beseech you to excuse me in that : for as he saith , afterwards about the popes power 〈◊〉 absolving subjects , i beg leave to wave such curious controversie● : what , a jesuit beg leave to wave curious controversies ! what is become 〈◊〉 all their vast tomes of scholastical an● casuistical divinity ? are no curious controversies handled in them ? an● were you bred up among them and yet ha●● controversies meerly because curious ▪ no , no , we understand you better than so that is only a curious controversies with you which endangers your safety , if you speak out , for it is a needless kind of curiosity for a man to betray himself . here in these practical countries it is sometimes dangerous speaking truth in their sense ; but at such a speculative place as rome is , there those may be wholesome and catholick truths , which ●ere are but niceties and curiosities . but doth he not say , the jesuits have solemnly renounced the doctrine ? yes , but have a care how far you believe him : we poor simple islanders might understand by this , that they had declared it to be false and pernicious . there is no such matter i will assure you , but upon the stirrs in france they renounced the publishing it , they renounced it as they were in france , but thought it good doctrine at rome : they are forbidden to treat any more of it , because of the odiousness of it to princes , and that is all the renouncing they ever meant . the third principle is , the lawfulness of killing kings , as to which , he saith , he cannot name the person that ever taught it in those terms : a good reason for that , because when they would have them killed they call them tyrants . and so grants dominicus soto and marian have asserted it , he might have namse more if he had pleased . i could not des● a more pleasant task than to pursue 〈◊〉 through the remainder of his discourse wherein he undertakes to vindicate the jesuits practices , but these have been much exposed by men of their own region , that i may spare my pains in th● preface ; and we may easily guess h● hard he was put to it , when he mak● the letter of the bishop of angelopol to be forged at port-royal by the ja● senists . and thus he hath shifted 〈◊〉 fault from the indies to europe , 〈◊〉 to vindicate some papists there fre● idolatry , he charges others here with forge● ▪ and ●et to this as a full answer , the 〈◊〉 ans●erer of the seasonable discour● doth referr us . and out of his admiral learning and skill in history desires 〈◊〉 adversary , for his satisfaction that the can be no danger of resuming abby lan● of popery should return , to go into germany where there are so many papist and protestant princes , noble men and gentlemen , that have ( especially since the treaty at munster ) either bishopricks , abbeys or the like confirmed to them by the pope . how ! confirmed to them by the pope ! what will not these men dare to say ? i perceive ignorance serves them for other purposes than meerly to be the mother of devotion . if at least this worthy author could be ignorant of so notorious a thing as pope innocents bull published on purpose to null the treaty at munster , as prejudicial to the catholick religion , to the apostolical see , to churches and other holy places and persons and ecclesiastical rights . in the body of the bull he saith , that his nuncio there ( who was afterwards pope alexander the seveth ) did protest against these articles , as void , null , unjust , and agreed upon by persons that had no power , and that they were to be so looked on by all . but the pope did not think this sufficient , but declares all those articles that related to liberty of religion , church-lands , or any ecclesiastical rights , or brought any the least prejudice to them or might be thought or pretended so to do , to be null , void , invalid , unjust , damned , reprobate , vain , and without any force or power , and that they shall remain so for ever ; and that no person , though never so much sworn to observe those articles shall be bound by such oath ; no right , title , plea , prescription , shall accrue to any by vertue of them : and therefore out of the plenitude of apostolical power he doth absolutely damn , reprobate , null and cassate all those articles and protests before god of the nullity of them ; and restores all persons and places to their ancient possessions notwithstanding them , with very much more to the same purpose . this was dated at rome apud sanctam mariam majorem sub annulo piscatoris die novemb. and solemnly published there the third of jan. . in the eighth year of his pontificat . call you this , sir , the popes confirming them ! is it credible that he who in the beginning of his answer had charged the late protestant books , ( which he most ingeniously calls libels ) to be crammed with nothing else but what we know to be false , should within a few pages have the confidence to affirm in the face of the world so notorious an untruth ? but i leave this ingenious author , to be chastised for this and other his extravagancies , by his worthy adversary , and return to my own . after all these unsuccessful attempts at last the knight himself resolves to encounter the dragon ; and accordingly he buckles on his armour , mounts his stead , and , according to all ancient and modern pictures of the combat , directs his lance into the very mouth of it ; wisely considering , if the head were mortally wounded , the whole body would fall to the ground . after him at a convenient distance follows his squire i. s. who had a particular spight at the dragons tayl , and without fear or wit falls unmercifully upon it , and in his own opinion , hath chopt it into a thousand pieces . but such mischievous creatures whose strength lies scattered in all their parts , do often rise up when they are triumphed over as dead , and give their most deadly wounds , when they are thought to lye gasping for breath . it happened that when t. g's . answer to the first part of my book came out , i was before engaged in the defence of the protestant principles of faith against the guide in controversies and e. w. ( the author of those two learned treatises as t. g. calls them , protestancy without principles , and religion and reason ) part of which being then in the press , i was forced to go through with that , before i could take his book into consideration . and thereupon i resolved to dispatch all those which relate to the principles of faith together ; and then to proceed to the principles of worship in answer to him , which ( god willing ) i intend as soon as the former part is finished . all that i shall take notice of him here , is to represent the ingenuity of his dealing with me in his preface , wherein he charges me with dissenting from the doctrine of the church of england in accusing the church of rome of idolatry . and by this one instance i desire the reader to judge what candour and sincerity he is to expect in his book . for the sense of the church of england i appealed to the book of homilies : not to any doubtful , or general or single passage therein , but to the design of one of the largest and most elaborat● homilies in the whole book ; consisting of three several parts , the last of which i● said not to be meerly for the people but for the instruction of those who were t● teach them . the design of that last part is thus set down . . that popish images and the idols of the gentils are all one concerning themselves . . that they have been and be worshipped in our time in like form and manner as were the idols of the gentils . and for that idolatry standeth chiefly in the mind , it shall in this part first be proved that our image-maintainers , have had and have the same opinions and judgement of saints whose images they have made and worshipped as the gentils idolaters had of their gods ; and afterwards shall be declared that our image-maintainers and worshippers have used and use the same outward rites , and manner of honouring , and worshipping their images , as the gentils did use before their idols , and that therefore they commit idolatry , as well inwardly as outwardly , as did the wicked gentils idolaters ; and this that homily is intended for the proof of : which it doth very fully . but , saith t. g. , why did i not appeal for the sense of our church to the . articles ? as though the approbation of the book of homilies were not one of them , viz the . the second book of homilies the several titles whereof we have joyned under this article ( among which titles the second is this of the peril of idolatry ) doth contain a godly and wholesome doctrine and necessary for these times . which articles were not only allowed and approved by the queen , but confirmed by the subscription of the hand of the arch-bishop and bishops of the upper house , and by the subscription of the whole clergy in the nether house of convocation a. d. . now i desire t. g. to resolve me whether men of any common understanding would have subscribed to this book of homilies in this manner , if they had believed the main doctrine and design of one of them had been false and pernicious ? as they must have done if they had thought the practice of the roman church to be free from idolatry . i will put th● case that any of the bishops then had thought the charge of idolatry had been unjust , and that it had subverted the foundation of ecclesiastical authority , that there could have been no church , or right ordination if the roman church had been guilty of idolatry ; would they have inserted this into the articles , when it was in their power to have left it out ? and that the homilies contained a wholesome and godly doctrine , which in their consciences they believed to be false and pernicious ? i might as well think that the council of trent would have allowed calvins institutions , as containing a wholesome and godly doctrine ; as that men so perswaded would have allowed it the homily against the peril of idolatry . and how is it possible to understand the sense of our church better , than by such publick and authentick acts of it , which all persons who are in any place of trust in the church must subscribe , and d●clare their approbation of them ? this homily hath still continued the same , the article the very same , and if so they must acknowledge this hath been , and is to this day the sense of our church . but saith t. c. the subscribing the book of homilies , as containing a godly and wholesome doctrine , doth not evince that every particular doctrine contained in it is such . be it so : but i hope it doth evince that the subscribers did not think the main doctrine of any one homily to be false ? surely there is a great deal of difference between some particular passages and expressions in these homilies , and that which is the main design and foundation of any one of them . but in this case we are to observe , that they who deny the church of rome to be guilty of idolatry , do not only look on the charge as false , but as of dangerous consequence ; and therefore although men may subscribe to a book in general as containing wholesome and godly doctrine , though they be not so certain of the truth of every passage in it , yet they can never do it with a good conscience if they believe any great and considerable part of the doctrine therein contained to be false and dangerous . such a subscription would be as apparently shuffling and dishonest as is the evasion of this testimony which t. g. makes use of for want of a better . i shall in the next place shew the current doctrine of the church ever since the reformation to have been agreeable to this homily of the peril of idolatry . in the injunctions published by k. edward vi. a. d. . the extirpation of popery is called the suppression of idolatry and superstition . in the second year of edward vi. arch-bishop cranmer published his articles of visitation , whereof the . and the last are about the taking away images , pictures , and all other monuments of feigned miracles , pilgrimages , idolatry and superstition . in the second liturgy by edward vi. after the communion , was a rubrick annexed , in which the adoration of the host is expresly called idolatry . this is that very rubrick , of which t. g. , according to his excellent skill in the offices of our church , saith it is not yet more then a dozen years since it was inserted into the communion book ; which he might have found above a . years before in the book of edward vi. in the injunctions of queen elizabeth , a. d. . art. . and . all shrines , tables , pictures , &c. are commanded to be taken away and destroyed and all other monuments of feigned miracles , idolatry and superstition . and that 〈◊〉 may not think it was only a sudden hea● at the first reformation which made the● charge the church of rome with idolatry , long after in a form of thanksgiving in the . of queen elizabeth a. d. . popery is called that idolatrous religion : as it was in the beginning of her reign in the excellen● apology for the church of england and i desire him , or any one else , 〈◊〉 produce any one bishop or divine of not● in the church of england , who during all h●r reign did deny the church of rome to be guilty of idolatry . but why then was it not inserted in the . articles ? in which t. g. observes , the adoration of images is not rejected as idolatry , but only as a fond thing , vainly invented , nor as repugnant to the plain words of scripture , but as being rather repugnant to the word of god , which plainly gives us to understand , that they had done their endeavours to find a command but could not . a most ingenious criticism ! when himself and all others of their divines yield that adoration of images , which our church charges them with , art. . ( viz. not barely worshipping but adoration of images ) to be idolatry and plainly repugnant to scripture . were the composers of our articles so sensless as not to think idolatry repugnant to scripture ; or not to think adoration of images to be idolatry ; or not to think the church of rome guilty of it , when the article saith the romish doctrine concerning worshipping and adoration as well of images as of reliques , & c ? it is not meerly the practice used in the church of rome , but their very doctrine concerning adoration of images which is here charged ; and can any church teach adoration of images and not be guilty of idolatry ? and for his criticism about being rather repugnant , it had been utterly lost if he had looked into the latin articles where the words are , immo verbo dei contradicit ; whereby it appears that rather is not used as a term of diminution , but of a more vehement affirmation . i now come to the exceptions he takes to the particular testimonies i produced of the most eminent bishops and divines of our church , ever since the reformation , who have all concurred in this charge of idolatry . two parts in three he excepts against as incompetent witnesses in the case : how few of the iury would any malefactor allow if such frivolous exceptions might serve his turn ? the two first he excepts against are the two arch-bishops whitgift and abbot as puritanically inclined . but as it unhappily falls out , one of them was never mentioned by me , and the other never till now suspected for a puritan . the abbot i mentioned was not george abbot arch-bishop of canterbury , but robert abbot bishop of salisbury ; and it is the first time we ever heard that a bishop of salisbury was suspended from his metropolitical jurisdiction . but they of the church of rome have a faculty of doing greater wonders with five words , than changing a bishop into an arch-bishop . i hope he understands the church he is of , better than that he hath left , or else we are like to have a sad account of history from him . but why i beseech you , after all his zeal and indefatigable pains for the church of england , must arch-bishop whitgift be thrown away to the puritans ? if he had proved t. c. at the same time arch-bishop of canterbury , there might have been some reason to suspect whitgift to have been of the puritan side ; for all the world know they were grea● adversaries on that very account of th● puritan cause . but was not whitgi●● for the lambeth articles ? and wh● then ? are the dominicans puritans and no papists ? if your church may hav● liberty not to determin those nice points why may not ours ? and so both parties remain of our church , as long as they contradict no received articles among us . but the lambeth-articles were neve● intended for any more than as respons● prudentum to silence disputes in the university . and i believe none of the puritan party after that , took arch-bishop whitgift to be a patron of thei● cause . but if these will not serve his turn , 〈◊〉 have others ready , whom for meer sham● he will not say were puritans , or puritanically inclined . and the first of these is an arch-bishop too , and that is arch-bishop bancroft ; and if he be cast out for a puritan , surely there never was any bishop of the church of england . in his sermon preached at pauls cross on john . . he hath these words speaking of the papists . the popish false prophets will suffer the people to try nothing , but do teach them wholly to depend on them ; and to that purpose they have indeed three notable sleights . first they forbid them the reading of the scriptures . and the better to be obeyed therein they will not permit the scriptures to be translated into the vulgar tongue . whereof it came to pass that the people were so easily seduced , and drawn from christ to the pope ; from his merits to the saints , and their own merits ; from his bloody sacrifice , whereby only sins are remitted , to their most dry and fruitless sacrifice ; from the spiritual food of his body and blood , unto a carnal and capernaitical transubstantiation ; from the calling upon his name to an invocation of saints : and from their sure trust and confidence in his death to a vain imagination of the vertue of their masses , pilgrimages , pardons , and i know not what intolerable superstition and idolatry . i hope arch-bishop bancroft may for once pass for no puritan with t. g. but what will he say , if the only persons he produces as most partial of his side , do give in evidence against him ? bishop mountague is the first , whose words are these in the book cited by him . our predecessors and fathers coming late out of popery , living near unto papists and popish times , conversing with them , having been nuzzled and brought up amongst them and knowing that images used to be crept unto , incensed , worshipped , and adored among them , &c. what thinks he , is not this all one as to charge them with idolatry ? and more plainly in his former book , but whatsoever you say , however you qualify the thing with gentle words , we say in your practice you far exceed ; and give them that honour which is latria a part of divine respect and worship . and afterwards saith , the people go to it with downright adoration , and your new schools defend that the same respect is due to the representer , as must be given to the representee . so that the crucifix is to be reverenced with the the self-same honour that christ jesus is . ablasphemy not heard of till thomas aquinas set it on foot . clear these enormities , and others like these , then come and we may talk and soon agree concerning honour and respect unto reliques or images of saints , or christ ; till then we cannot answer it unto our maker , to give his honour unto a creature . his next is pet. heylin ; and now i hope we have at last hit upon a man far enough from being a puritan ; yet this very person gives plain evidence against him . for i● his th . sermon on the tares preached a● white-hall ianuary . . h● hath these words . so it is also in the point of images , first introduced into the church for ornament , history , and imitation . had they staid there it had been well , and no faul● found with them . — but when the schools began to state it , that the same veneration was to be afforded to the type and prototype , then came the doctrine to the growth . when and by whom , and where it was first so stated is not easie to determine , and indeed not necessary . it is enough that we behold it in the fruits . and what fruits think you could it bear , but most gross idolatry , greater than which was never known among the gentils ? witness their praying not before , but to the crucifix , and calling on the very cross , the wooden and material cross , both to increase their righteousness and remit their sins . and for the images of the saints , they that observe with what laborious pilgrimages , magnificent processions , solemn offerings , and in a word , with what affections , prayers , and humble bendings of the body , they have been and are worshipped in the church of rome , might very easily conceive that she was once again relapsed into her ancient paganism . with much more to the same purpose . his only person remaining , is mr. thorndike , a man of excellent learning and great piety , but if we should grant , that he held some thing singular in this matter ; what is that to the constant opinion of our church ? and yet even mr. thorndike himself in a paper sent by him 〈◊〉 some whom t. g. know's , not long before his death , saith , that , to pray to saints for those things which only god can give ( as all papist do is by the proper sense of the word● down-right idolatry . if they say ▪ their meaning is by a figure only to desire them to procure their requests of god : how dare any christian trust his soul with that church which teaches that which must needs be idolatry in all that understand not the figure ? so that upon the whole matter t. g. cannot produce any on● person of our church that hath clearly an● wholly acquitted the church of rome from the charge of idolatry . it seems then 〈◊〉 church hath been made up of puritans i● t. g's . sense of them . but if these do no● satisfy him what doth he think of the arch-bishop and bishops and clergy of the convocation . a. d. . were 〈◊〉 these puritans too ? and yet in the sevent● canon they have these words . and albeit at the time or reforming this church from that gross superstition of popery , it was carefully provided that all means should be used to root out of the minds of the people , both the inclination thereto and memory thereof ; especially of the idolatry committed in the mass , for which cause all popish altars were demolished , &c. what can more express the sense of our church , than the concurrent opinion of arch-bishops , bishops and clergy of both provinces met in convocation ? when we see they so lately , charged the church of rome with idolatry . let us now consider what exceptions he takes against the other witnesses produced by me . jewel , bilson , davenant , all eminent bishops of our church and of great learning , are cast away at once , as incompetent persons . but why so ? why , saith t. g. they were all excepted against by our late soveraign k. charcles i. in his third paper to henderson . that is a shrewd prejudice indeed to their authority to be rejected by a prince of so excellent a judgement and so cordial a friend to the church of england . but it is good to be sure whether it be so or no. all that he saith of bishop iewel is this , and though i much reverence bishop iewel ' s memory , i never thought him infallible . so then , he must he puritanically inclined ; but whence does that follow ? not surely from the kings reverencing his memory , for that were to reflect upon the king himself ; not from his not thinking him infallible . for i dare say , the king never thought the pope infallible ; must be needs therefore think him a puritan ? surely never man was such a friend to the puritans as this t. g. who without any ground gives them away some of the greatest honours of our church , and ( if the testimony last cited be of any force to prove one a puritan , ) all mankind , and himself too : for i plainly perceive by this preface that he is not infallible . yet for all this we will not let go jewel , no nor bilson , davenant , white , usher , downam , what ever t. g. saith against them . indeed k. charles excepts against bilson for his principles of civil government , but not a word of his disaffection to the church of england : for bishop davenant , the king saith he is none of those to whom he appealed , or would submit unto , and with very good reason , for the king had appealed to the practice of the primitive church , and the universal consent of fathers ; therefore bishop davenant was a puritan . it seems they have been all puritans since the primitive times ; and i hope the church of rome then hath good store of them , for that is far enough from the fathers or the primitive church . but how comes bishop white in for a puritan , being so great a friend of arch-bishop laud ; why , forsooth , heylin reports that for licensing bishop mountagu's appello caesarem , it was said , that white was turned black. and canst thou for thy heart , good reader , expect a more pregnant proof ? it was a notable saying , and it is great pity , the historian did not preserve the memory of the author of it ; but by whom was it said ? that must be supposed by the puritans ; and could none but they be the authors of so witty a saying ? but suppose they were the puritans that said it ? it is plain then , they thought him no sound puritan , for they hold no falling from grace . all then that can be inferred from this witty saying is , that white sunk in his esteem among them by this act. and is it not possible for them to have an esteem for those who are not of their own party ? concerning arch-bishop usher , dr. heylin was known to be too much his enemy , to be allowed to give a character of him : and his name will not want a due veneration as long as learning and piety have any esteem among us . but he is most troubled what to do with six that remain , viz. king james , bishop andrews , arch-bishop laud , isaac casaubon , doct. field , and doct. jackson ; these he could not for shame fasten the name of puritans upon ( as he doth with scorn on bishop downam , reynolds , whitaker , and fulk ; whose testimonies i said to prevent cavils , i need not to produce although they are all capable of sufficient vindication . ) for king james , he saith , that in the place cited by me he saith expresly , that what he condemns is adoring of images , praying to them , and imagining a kind of sanctity in them , all which are detested by catholicks . was ever man put to such miserable shifts ? are not these king james his words . but for worshipping either them , ( reliques ) or images , i must account it damnable idolatry . and doth not king james a little after take off their distinctions and evasions in these words , and they worship ( forsooth ) the images of things in being , and the image of the true god. but scripture forbiddeth to worship the image of any thing that god created . yea the image of god himself is not only expresly forbidden to be worshipped but even to be made . let them therefore that maintain this doctrine , answer it to christ at the latter day , when he shall accuse them of idolatry ; and then i doubt if he will be paid with such nice sophistical distinctions . is all this nothing but to charge them with such practices which they detest ? doth he not mention their doctrine , and their distinctions ? did not king james understand what he said , and what they did ? it is plain he charges them with idolatry in what they did , which was that i brought his testimony for . the like answer he gives to the rest of them , viz. that they charged them , with what they thought they did , but the papists deny that they do any such thing : i. e. in plain terms , they charge them with idolatry , but the papists deny they commit it . and so they do when i charge them with it ; so that t. g. by the very same reason might have acquitted me from charging them with it , and have spared his book . is not this now an admirable way of proving , that they do not charge them with idolatry , because the papists deny they commit it ? who meddles with what they profess they do , or do not ? i was to shew what these persons charged them with . and do any of these excuse them by saying any doctrine of theirs was contrary to these particulars ? do they not expresly set themselves to disprove their distinctions upon which their doctrine is founded ? and shew the vanity of them because their open and allowed practices do plainly contradict them ; and shew that they do give divine honour to images however in words they deny it . but this way of defending them is , as if those whom st. paul charges that they professed that they knew god but in works they denied him , should reply to him , how can we deny him in our works , since we profess him in our words ? iust so saith t. g. how can they be charged with idolatry , since they profess to do no such thing ? a●though such persons , as those i mentioned , did not understand both what the papists said for themselves and what they did notwithstanding . and now i joy● with t. g. in desiring the reader may be judge between us , whether i have betrayed my trust in pretending to defend the church of england ; and whether in charging the church of rome with idolatry i have contradicted the sense of it ? since i have made it appear that her most true and genuin sons , the most remote from all suspicion of disaffection to her , or inclination to puritanism , have concurred in the same charge which i undertook to make good . but there is one blow yet remaining in his preface , which i must endeavour to ward off , otherwise it will be a terrible one to the church of england ; for by this charge of idolatry , he makes me to subvert the very foundation of ecclesiastical authority in it . this it is to charge home . for , saith he , it being a received maxime and not being denyable by any man of common sense , that no man can give to another that which he hath not himself , it lies open to the conscience of every man , that if the church of rome be guilty of heresie , much more if guilty of idolatry , it falls under the apostles excommunication . ( gal. . . ) and so remains deprived of the lawful authority to use and exercise the power of orders ; and consequently the authority of governing , preaching and administring the sacraments , which those of the church of england challenge to themselves , as deriv'd from the church of rome , can be no true and lawful jurisdiction , but usurped and anti-christian . and so farewel to the church of england , if the church of rome were not more kind in this case than t. g. is . hitherto we have seen his skill in the affairs of our church , and now we shall see just as much in the doctrine of his own . for doth not the council of trent make orders a sacrament ? and one of those which doth imprint an indelible character ? and doth not that council pronounce an anathema against those , that denyed the validity of the sacrament administred by one in mortal sin , in case he observes the essentials of it ▪ how then can t. g ▪ ●scape excommunication from his own church , that denies the validity of the sacrament of orders in case of the sin of the givers of it ? if the validity of the sacrament doth not d●pend on the worth or quality of the ministers of it but upon the essentials and the institution of christ , how can the fault of the persons hinder the conveyance of that authority , which they are only the bare instruments to convey ? doth t. g. think so in all other sacraments ? as in case of baptism ; that supposing the ministers of it have been guilty of heresie or idolatry , the sacrament loses its effect ? well fare then the donatists , whose opinion this was , and in whom it hath been condemned by the church . if it be not so in other sacraments how comes it to be thus in orders ? which he must acknowledge , to be as much a sacrament as baptism ; or else he must renounce the council of trent . and it is observable , that the very argument used by the donatists and others , was the same which t. g. here produces , viz. his common maxim of reason , and not denyable by any man of common sense that no man can give to another , that which he hath not himself ; to which this answer was given , that the instrument was not the giver , but the first institutor , and in case the minister keep to the institution , the grace of the sacrament may be conveyed by him though he hath it not himself . but , methinks , if t. g. had forgotten the doctrine of the council of trent , he might have looked into some one or other of their own authors to have informed himself better of their doctrine in this matter . vasquez hath a chapter on purpose to prove that an heretical , excommunicated , suspended bishop is a sufficient minister of ordination ; and saith that all the schoolmen and summists are agreed in it , and that there can be no doubt at all made of it . and did none of these men understand the principle that is undenyable by any man of common sense ? what a back-blow is this to those of his own church ? for vasquez saith this is determined as a matter of faith among them , that the validity of a sacrament doth not depend on the probity or faith of the minister . and he denies it to be in the power of the church to hinder the effect of ordination in an excommunicated bishop , because it cannot blot out his character , or take away his power . estius saith , that no crime how great soever , whether haeresie , schism , or apostasie , no censure how heavy soever , as excommunication , can hinder the validity of ordination by a bishop , although it be of those who are not subject to his jurisdiction , in case he observes the lawful rites of ordination as to the essence of the sacrament ; for this reason , because ordination belongs to the power of order , which being once received can never be lost ; but those things which belong to jurisdiction , as absolution and excommunication , have no effect , where that jurisdiction is taken away . and this doctrine they all ground upon st augustins discourse against the donatists ; and upon the practice of the church at that time which did receive those who were ordained among the donatists , without scrupling their orders ; as not only appears by the testimony of st. augustin but by the decree of an african council to that purpose ; and that not only at first , but when the schism was grown inveterate . and yet francis hallier a late doctor of the sorbon , tells us , that the donatists were not barely schismaticks , but they were adjudged hereticks , for asserting that the efficacy of sacraments did depend upon the quality of the persons , and not upon the merits of christ. the same author vehemently disputes against those , who assert that the power of order can be lost by the sin of the person , and shews that doctrine hath been condemned by several councils before that of trent ; as of arles , of orleans and constance : and undertakes to answer all the instances brought from antiquity to the contrary ; as either understood of such hereticks , which did not retain the essentials of the sacrament or only implying the fault committed in giving or receiving them at the hands of such persons , but not any invalidity in the sacrament it self . and afterwards he proves that hereticks are capable of ordination . but if these , and many others of their later writers will not satisfy him , i desire him to consult their more ancient authors , thom. aquinas determins that hereticks and those who are cut off from the church , may give orders as well as administer other sacraments , the reason he gives is , that a power in consecration is given to a bishop , which can never be taken from him , although he will not allow it to be called a character . for several , especially of the ancient schoolmen would not have consecration to imprint a new character ; but they were never able to give an intelligible account of what they meant by the character as distinct from that sacramental power which was conveyed by consecration and they granted to be indelible as the other was , some making it an extension of the character of priesthood , others a bare extrinsecal denomination added to it ; but however they held it such as could no more be taken away than the character of priesthood . cardinal bonaventure saith , that the validity of sacraments among hereticks , was a question much in dispute among the ancient doctors , but that it hath been determined by st. augustin , that they are valid if they preserve the essentials of them : and in the matter of ordination he saith , that the power of orders , although it be not a distinct character , yet because it is built upon , it can no more be taken away than the character it self : but whatever is founded upon jurisdiction as the power of excommunication and absolution may be taken away . but i need not mention any more particular writers , since morinus acknowledges , that for . years the opinion of the validity of orders conferred by hereticks , hath only obtained in the roman church . before that time , he proves at large that it was more disputable , as appears by the master of the sentences , who accounts it a perplexed and almost insoluble difficulty because of the different opinions of doctors about it ; but afterwards st. augustins opinion was generally received both among the schoolmen and canonists ; and is now become a matter of faith in the roman church at least by consequence , since the decrees of councils . and although morinus will not allow that any decree of their church hath passed in this matter , yet he saith , there hath been so long and so universal a consent of doctors in this point , that it ought to be instead of a law , which they ought not to violate . by this we may judge of the learning and skill of t. g. in the doctrine of his own church . but if he would not look into the controversal writers of their church , yet if he had but searched into the practice of the church either in ancient or modern times he would have been ashamed to have made use of such an argument to overthrow all ecclesiastical authority among us . i grant that in some tumultuous ages of the church , ordinations have been adjudged null through the defaults of the persons , but then it was meerly for breaking the canons of the church ; so it was in the case of formosus , for breaking the canons against the translations of bishops ; in the case of ebbo arch-bishop of rhemes , whose ordinations were nulled by hincmarus and the council of soissons , for not being canonically restored after deposition but upon appeal to the pope they were pronounced valid : in the case of pope constantine for precepitating orders to secure the popedom ; in the famous case of photius , whose ordination was declared null by the opposite faction on the same grounds ; but all these things were done in troublesome times , when one party sought a pretence against the other . but if we regard the more general practice of the church , we shall find when far greater objections than these were made , yet ordinations have been allowed ; although made by hereticks . i shall offer him the fairest terms he can desire , and for the practice of the church referr him to his own dear second council of nice , and the modern practice of the roman church . the question of the validity of ordination by hereticks was at large debated in the first action of the second council of nice , upon the submission of basilius , theodorus , and theodosius , hypatius and others who had been bishops of the opposite party , which john the vicar of the orient there declared to be worse than any former heresie : upon which the question was proposed , whether upon renouncing their heresie they might be received as bishops , and the orders be allowed of those who were ordained by them during their heresie ? hypatius appealed to the custom of the church ; then the canons of councils and writings of the fathers were brought into council : tarasius produced the canon of the council of nice , allowing the ordinations of the cathari , and the imposition of hands there mentioned he understands only for benediction , and not for ordination : and the council of ephesus making no distinction between those ordained by nestorians and others ; ( for therein the force of that third canon must lye which tarasius thought so plain ) from st. basil , allowing those bishops which communicated with isoes or zoius and saturninus ; from the council of ephesus allowing the orders of the messaliani or euchitae ; from the council of chalcedon allowing the bishops upon their repentance , which had joyned with dioscorus : and more particularly , for those which had been ordained by heretical bishops , it was there shewed , that anatolius the president of the fourth council was ordained by dioscorus in the presence of eutyches ; that john bishop of hierusalem after he had renounced the acephalists by whom he was ordained , was received and submitted to as bishop by the orthodox ; that many of those who sat in the sixth council were ordained by sergius , pyrrhus , paulus , and petrus , who were in that council declared to be hereticks ; and for . years together tarasius saith , they had no other ordinations : upon these evidences of the practice of the church , this council of nice declared likewise , that the ordination of heretical bishops was valid . for the modern practice of the church of rome , i appeal to the allowance therein given to the ordinations of the greek church , although the greek church be charged with heresie ; and that ever since the notorious schism in the time of michael cerularius a. d. . in the time of innocent the third some greek clergy-men living in the dioceses of latin bishops , yet received ordination from greek bishops , which made the latin bishops suspend them from the execution of their office , the pope , hearing of it , sends to his legat , wherein he consents to the suspension in case it were done without leave from the latin bishop ; but if leave were obtained he takes off the suspension ; because this custom is allowed in the church ▪ i need not produce more particular instances in this kind , which may be seen at large in morinus ; because in all the attempts of reconciliation in the several councils held to that purpose , as at lyons , and florence , where all the matters in difference were most fully handed , there was never any objection made to the greek ordinations . but most remarkable to this purpose is the bull of clement the seventh containing in it a former bull of leo the tenth , published by leo allatius , by isaacius habertus , and by morinus , wherein their ordinations and other rites and customs are expresly allowed . and to this day saith morinus they are allowed in rome not only to perform other parts of divine service according to their customs in the church of st. athanasius , but to ordain priests after their own manner ; for which they had a bull of urban the eighth . and now i desire t. g. to consider a little his undeniable maxim , that no man can give to another that which he hath not himself , whether he doth in earnest think that his own church is so bereft of all common sense , as not to understand the force of this maxim ? and if it thought it of any weight in this matter , how it could ever approve the ordinations of hereticks , or decree that the sacraments retain their efficacy , where the essentials of them are observed , whatever the faith or manners of the instruments be ? and this was all i intended in this preface ; of the rest of his book , the reader may expect an account as god gives health and opportunity . the contents . preface to the two first answers . p. . a particular examination of the pamphlet entitled doct. stillingfleet against doct. stillingfleet . of the insufficiency of j. w.'s way of answering . p. . no contradiction about the charge of idolatry . p. . a distinct answer to his propositions . p. . in what sense the church of rome is owned by us as a true church . p. . his appendix about idolatry considered . p. . the second contradiction examined . p. . the charge of fanaticism defended . p. . no contradiction in the charge of divisions p. . the conclusion . p. . an answer to the book entitled doct. stillingfleets principles considered . the occasion of annexing those principles . p. . of the notion of infallibility . p. . n. o's concessions . p. . his principles laid down . p. . his exceptions answered . p. . his proofs of infallibility examined . p. . of the arguments from scripture for infallibility . p. . of the argument from tradition for it . p. . of the argument from parity of reason . p. . of the authority of the guides of the church in ten propositions . p. . the case of vigilius and honorius at large discussed p. , . the different case of the separation of dissenters from our church , and our separation from the church of rome . p. . of the means to attain the sense of scripture without an infallible guide . p. . of the necessity of a iudge in controversies . p. . the way used in the primitive church for finding the sense of scripture through several ages of the christian church from the most authentick writers of them . p. . church authority not destroyed by my principles . p. . what authority we allow to governors of the church . p. . the roman churches way of suppressing sects compared with ours . p. . errata . page . line . read the church . p. . l. for and r. that p. . l. ● for here r. wh●re p ▪ l ▪ . r. eutychianism . p. . l. . r. followed . p. . l. . r. patriarchal . p. . l. . for by r. ●e . p. . l. . r. apocalyptic● p. . l. . for boo r. book . p. . marg r. vales. not . ad eusch. p. . 〈◊〉 r. euclid . p. . l. . for he makes this , r. this is made . p. . l. . blot ● . one the. the preface . when i published the late book , which hath so much enraged those of the church of rome against me , i thought i had reason to expect that a just answer should be made to it ; but they have taken an effectual course to undeceive me ; for by this new way i perceive , their utmost ambition is to have something abroad which among themselves may pass for an answer . which put me in mind of what i have heard a great person said , when he had undertaken to manage an ill cause before a publick audience , and one of his friends asked him what he meant by it , trouble not your self , said he , our own side will be sure to believe me . it was surely some such presumption as this , which made the learned authors of these two elaborate pamphlets to appear in such a manner in print , as if it were no great matter what they said , so their people might have this to say , and ( if they can ) believe it too , that my book is answered . if this be all their cause will afford , it deserves rather to be pittied than confuted ; if it will bear more , they are as bad managers of it as their enemies could wish . for however i was threatned before hand that such answers were coming abroad , every line of which would fetch blood ; yet , as cruel as they are when we are under their lash , i found that which they designed for my punishment to give me no small pleasure : and i never had so good an opinion of the mercifulness of their church as when i saw with what feeble hands they chastised me . i had heard so much of their rage , that i expected their greatest strength would be employ'd upon me ; and i could not tell what zamzummims they might hitherto keep in the dark , whose arms were not to be made use of , but upon some special occasion when an adversary was to be dispatch'd all at once and so perfectly subdued as never to appear more . while i was preparing my self for this kind of martyrdome , out come these mighty men of valour , who have beaten nothing that i know of , but the air and themselves ; for they have neither tyed my tongue , nor broke my heart , nor fetched one drop of blood that i can yet find ; all which were things i was told would be done , when these answers came abroad ; which threatnings made so loud a noise , that i heard the report of them not only nearer home , but from very distant persons and places . but lest i should be thought only to despise my adversaries ( which i confess they have given me no small occasion to do ) i shall bestow a particular examination upon what they have offered by way of answer to my book . only i think it reasonable in the first place to take notice of their present way and method of answering , wherein they make use of as many artifices , as they do in gaining proselytes . when we set our selves to answer their books , we endeavour to state the controversie plainly , to examine their proofs , to apply distinct answers to their arguments fairly represented in their own words , and to render the whole discourse as clear and perspicuous as may be , that all persons may be capable of judging on which side the greatest strength and evidence lyes . this is the mighty advantage which a good cause gives us ; we make use of no tricks to deceive men , nor sophistical cavils to confound and perplex things ; we dare appeal to the judgement of any impartial person , who will take the pains to examin the matters in difference between us . but in their late dealings with us , they seek to avoid the main things in dispute , and abhor any methodical proceeding ; one man picks out a sentence here and there to answer , another a page or two together , a third leaps from one thing to another , as if resolv'd to pass by the greatest difficulties ; but he is a man of courage indeed , that dares fall upon the reer , and begin to confute a book at the end of it , so that if he lives long enough , and get heart , he may in time come to the beginning : and if we observe them all , they look for nothing so much as some cleanly way of escape , and if they can but raise such a dust as to fly away without being openly discerned to do so , this they hope those of their own side will be so kind and partial as to call a victory . these are no general accusations , but such as are easie to observe in their dealings with me as to my former book , and that lately published . but to judicious men , all these little arts and shifts are either plain acknowledgements of a baffled cause , or an argument of a weak and unskilful management . if the book it self be a little too troublesome to be medled with , it is best to fall upon the author , and it is a hard case if by false and ridiculous stories , or open calumnies , or at least base and ugly insinuations , they cannot diminish his reputation ; and then they hope the book will sink with its author . but we are not ignorant whose cause is wont to be managed by such devices as these are , and from whom they have learnt this method of confuting adversaries . as for all their railing accusations against me ; i shall not so much as desire god to rebuke them , but only pray that he would pardon them ; and if i must thank them for any thing , it is for giving me the occasion for exercising so great a charity . i have learnt of him who when he was reviled , reviled not again , not only to forbear reproaching them in the same manner , but to return them good for evil , and to pray for them while they calumniate me . i have so much the less reason to wonder that my book should be charged by them with no less than blasphemy , since the author of our religion himself was so , and suffered under that accusation . but wherein i pray doth this blasphemy lye ? have i uttered any thing that tends to the reproach of god or true religion ? have i the least word which malice it self can stretch to the dishonour of iesus christ , the prophets and apostles , or the holy scriptures written by divine inspiration ? no ; i challenge the boldest of them , and most malicious , to produce any thing i ever said or writ that doth but seem to look that way . have i made the practice of true devotion ridiculous , and the real expressions of piety the subject of scorn and derision ? no , so far from it , that it was only a just zeal for the honour and practise of true religion made me willing to lay open the ridiculous fanaticisms of some pretended saints in the roman church . and must they be allowed to charge fanaticism on us , and think it far from blasphemy to represent the enthusiastick follies of the sectaries among us ; and when they are guilty of the very same , or greater , may not we shew their unjustice and partiality , without being accused of blasphemy ? but some of these are canonized saints , as s. brigitt , s. catharine , s. francis , and s. ignatius ; which is so far from making the cause of their church better , that to my understanding it makes it much worse . for although fanaticism be disowned by our church , it seems it is not barely countenanced and allowed in the church of rome , but canonized and adored . that which i insist upon , is this ; either we have no fanaticks , or theirs are so ; for by the very same rule that ours are so , theirs must be too ; for our fanaticks do pretend as high to the spirit and divine revelation as any of theirs ; only there is this remarkable difference between their fanaticks and ours , that ours are among us but not of us , but theirs are both . now if any one who pretends to inspiration and enthusiasm cannot be charged with fanaticism without blasphemy , we must be exposed to all follies and contradictions imaginable ; and to what purpose are we bid to try the spirits whether they be of god or no , i. e. whether their pretence to divine revelation be true or false ? if there may be false pretences to inspiration , we are to examine the grounds of them , and to judge accordingly ; and all false pretenders to inspiration , let them be canonized by whom they will , are the highest sort of fanaticks ; and the greater honour is given them , the greater dishonour it is to the christian religion . but these things shall be more largely discussed in their proper place : i now only take notice of the injustice of their calumny with which they have made so much noise among injudicious people : and i should not have been so much concerned about it , had i not found suggestions to the same purpose in the authors of the two pamphlets . the one of them very kindly makes no difference between lucian , porphyrius and me , but only some interest which doth byass me another way ; and verily believes , good man , that were it not for that , i could flurt with as much piquancy and railery at christian religion , as i do at the roman . in which base suggestion there is no colour of truth , but only that he very honestly distinguisheth the christian , religion and the roman from each other ; as indeed they are in many things as different from each other as truth from falshood , wisdom from folly , and true piety from gross superstition . if he had called me an atheist in plain terms , the grossness of the calumny might have abated the force of it ; but there is no such way to do a man mischief , as by fly insinuations and shrewd suggestions introduced with i verily believe , and expressed with some gravity and zeal . but you who are so good at resolving faith , what is this verily believe of yours founded upon ? have you the authority of your church for it ? have you any evidence of reason ? or rather , have you it by some vision or revelation made by some of those saints , whose fanaticism is exposed ? or do you verily believe it , as you verily believe many other things , for no reason in the world ? if i should tell you i have made it my business to assert the truth of the scriptures , and christian religion therein contained , in a large discourse several years since published ; such is your charity , that you would tell me , so did vaninus write for providence , when he denyed a deity . if i should make large apologies for my innocency , and publish a confession of my faith , with protestations that no interest in the world could remove me from it ; you might tell me , where there is no guilt what need so much ado ? in plain terms , i know but one way to satisfie such as you are , but i will keep from it as long as i can , and that is to go to rome and be burnt for my faith ; for that is the kindness there shewed to those who contend for the purity of the christian religion against the corruptions of the roman . but such calumnies as these , as they are not fit to be passed by , so are they too gross to need any further answer . i shall however declare my mind freely to you ; if i had no other notion of the christian doctrine , than what i have from the doctrines of your church as contrary to ours ; no other measures of christian piety than from your mystical theology ; no better way to worship god than what is practised among you ; no greater certainty of inspiration from god than of the visions and revelations of your late saints ; no other miracles to confirm the christian doctrine than what are wrought by your images and saints , i should sooner choose to be a philosopher , than a christian upon those terms . and i verily believe ( to answer yours with another ) that the frauds and impostures of the roman church have made more atheists in christendom , than any one cause whatsoever besides : for when men resolve all their faith into the testimony of a church whose frauds are so manifest , and confessed by your best writers , such as melchior canus , and ludov. vives ; what can they who know no better , but suspect the inspirations and miracles of former ages , who see such false pretences to them so much magnified , and the fanatick pretenders canonized on that account ? and i am so far from thinking it any disservice to the christian religion to expose these fanaticisms , that i again verily believe that christianity will never obtain as it ought to do among men , till all those hypocritical cheats be yet more laid open to the view of the world ; which if any one have but the courage and patience to undertake , it would be as great , and a much more useful labour than the cleansing of the augean stable . this is not to make sport and recreation for the atheist and debauched , nor to give occasion to such persons to turn the inspirations of holy-scripture into matter of drollery and buffonry , as the author of the second pamphlet tragically declaims ; any more than our saviours unmasking the hypocrisie of the scribes and pharisees was the destroying the law of moses ; or the discovery of cheats and impostors doth give occasion to suspect the honesty of all mankind : nay so far is it from that , that we think the separating of fanaticism from true inspiration to be one of the best services that can be done to the christian religion , which otherwise is in danger of being despised or rejected by the considerate part of mankind . but i would fain know of these men , whether they do in earnest make no difference between the writings of such as mother iuliana and the books of scripture ; between the revelations of s. brigitt , s. catharine , &c. and those of the prophets ; between the actions of s. francis and ignatius loyola and those of the apostles ? if they do not , i know who they are that expose our religion to purpose ; if they do make a difference , how can the representing their visions and practices reflect dishonour upon the other , so infinitely above them , so much more certainly conveyed down to us with the consent of the whole christian world ? thus much may here suffice to represent the arts our adversaries are driven to , to defend themselves ; i cannot blame them that they would engage religion on their side , but so have all fanaticks in the world as well as they ; and i cannot for my heart see , but this heavy charge of blasphemy and undermining religion does as justly lye on them , who deride the fanaticks among us , as on those who have discovered the fanaticism of the church of rome . an examination of the pamphlet , entituled , dr. stillingfleet against dr. stillingfleet . having thus far laid open their present way of dealing with their adversaries , i now come to a particular consideration of these two pamphlets ; and begin with that called dr. stillingfleet against dr. stillingfleet , &c. the author of which is to be commended for so noble an enterprise ( which few of the champions of former ages could accomplish ) viz. to make his adversary fall by his own sword . but the mischief of it is , these romantick knights do hurt no where but in paper and their own imagination . but i forget his grave admonition , that i would treat these matters seriously , and lay aside drollery . to be then as grave as he can desire , there are these two things which i design to prov●● against him . . that on supposition i di●● contradict my self , in the way he insists upo●n it , that were no sufficient answer to my book . . that i am far enough from contradicting my self in any one of the things which 〈◊〉 insists upon . . supposing what he contends for were true , yet my book remains unanswered ; the design of which was to shew that no man can joyn in the communion of the roman church without great hazard of his salvation . if i had any where said the contrary , this indeed would have made it evident that i had contradicted my self . but what then ? doth the force of all the arguments used by me in this last discourse fall to the ground , because i was formerly of another opinion ? let me ask these revolters from the church of england one question ; whether they do not now more plainly contradict themselves as to their former opinions , than they can pretend that i have ever done ? i desire to know , whether this makes all their present arguments for the roman church of no force ? if they think their present reasons ought to be answered whatever contrary opinion they had before ; why , on supposition i had contradicted in a a former book what i say in this , must this render all that i have said , or can hereafter say in this matter , invalid ? doth the strength of all lye upon my bare affirming or denying ? was it ever true because i said it ? if not , how comes it to be untrue now , because i deny it ? i do not remember i was ever so vain , to make use of my own authority to prove a thing to be true , because i believed it ; and if i had , the world is not so vain to believe a man one jot the sooner for it . if my authority in saying or denying be of no importance to the truth of the thing , then he may prove that i contradict my self , and yet all the arguments of my book be as strong as ever . i do not desire any one to follow my opinion because it is mine , but i offer reason and authority for the proof of what i say ; if those be good in themselves , they do not therefore cease to be so , because they are , or seem to he inconsistent with what i have said elsewhere . so that self-contradiction being proved , overthrows not the reason of the thing , but the authority of the person ; and where things depend meerly upon authority , it is a good argument , and no where else . if a witness in a court contradicts himself , his testimony signifies nothing ; because there is nothing else but his authority that makes his testimony valid ; but if a lawyer at the bar chance to speak inconsistently , if afterwards he speaks plain and evident reason , does that take off the force of it , because he said something before which contradicted that plain reason ? if the pope , or those who pretend to be infallible , contradict themselves , that sufficiently overthrows their pretence of infallibility ; for he that changeth his mind , must be deceived once ; but for us fallible mortals , if we once hit upon reason and truth , and manage the evidence of it clearly , that reason doth not lose its former evidence , because the same persons may afterwards oppose it . suppose i should be able to prove that bellarmine in his recognitions contradicts what he had said in his former books ; doth this presently make all his arguments useless , and him uncapable of ever appearing in controversie more ? doth this make all his authorities false and his reasons unconcluding ? doth it hence follow that he spake no where consistently , because once or twice , or perhaps as often as his neighbours , he contradicted himself ? but my grave adversary , i. w. imagines that we writers of controversies are like witnesses in chancery , and are bound to make affidavits before the masters of this court of controversie ; and that whatever we say is to be taken as upon our oath ; this indeed would be an excellent way of bringing controversies to an issue , if we were to be sworn whether such a thing as transubstantiation were true or false ; and i cannot tell whether this , or laying wagers , or the popes infallibility be the best way to end such controversies ; for any one of them would do it , if people could but agree about it . but now my adversary says , that if a man once contradict himself he is to be looked on as a perjured person , and whatever he saith , his word is not to be taken . this he not only begins with , but very triumphantly concludes with it in these words , and this alone may suffice to annul ▪ whatever he has hitherto , or shall hereafter object against us ; for a witness , who has been once palpably conuinced to have forsworn or contradicted himself in matters of moment , besides the condign punishment he is lyable unto , he does vacate all evidences produced by him , against his adversary , and deserves never more to be heard against him in any tribunal . i see now what it is they would be at , no less than perpetual silence and being set in the pillory with that pamphlet on my forehead dr. still . against dr. still . for being guilty of contradicting my self , would satisfie i. w. and his friends ; this i suppose was the meaning of stopping my mouth for ever , when this answer was to come out . but now i perceive it is so dangerous a thing , i had best stand upon my defence , and utterly deny that i have contradicted my self in any thing , in which i. w. hath charged me . . to make it then out that this is a groundless charge , i must go through the several particulars insisted on . the first is in the charge of idolatry ; but how do i contradict my self about this ? had i vindicated the church of rome from idolatry in my defence of arch-bishop laud , this had been indeed to contradict my self : but this is not so much as pretended ; and if it were , nothing could be more easily confuted ; for in that very book , as it falls out very happily , there is a discourse to the same purpose , proving the church of rome guilty of idolatry , in invocation of saints and the worship of images , and that the heathen , in the worship of inferiour deities and images , might be excused on the same grounds that those of the church of rome do excuse themselves . here is then no appearance of a contradiction in terms ; and it is only pretended to be by consequence , viz. from yielding that the church of rome and we do not differ in fundamental points , and that the church of rome is therefore a true church ; from whence he inferrs , that it cannot be guilty of idolatry : because to teach that , would be a fundamental errour , and inconsistent with the being of a true church : and therefore to charge the church of rome with idolatry , and to allow it to be a true church is a contradiction . this is the substance of what he saith upon this head : to which i shall answer by shewing , . that this way of answering is very disingenuous . . that it is sophistical , and proves not the thing which he intends . . that it is a disingenuous way ; because he barely opposes a judgement of charity concerning their church , to a judgement of reason concerning the nature of actions , without at all examining the force of those reasons which are produced in the book he pretends to answer . can i. w. imagine , that any one who enquires into the safest way for his salvation , and hears the church of rome charged with idolatry in her worship , by arguments drawn from the plain law of god , the common sense of mankind , the repugnancy of their way of worship to the conceptions we ought to have of the divine nature , the consent of the ancient christian church , the parity of the case in many respects with the heathen idolaters , should presently conclude , that all these arguments are of no force , meerly because the person who made use of them , had upon another occasion judged so charitably of that church , as to suppose it still to retain the essentials of a true church ? i will put a case paralled to this ; suppose one of the church of iudah should have call'd the church of israel in the time of ieroboam a true church , because they acknowledged the true god , and did believe an agreement in that common acknowledgement to be sufficient to preserve the essentials of a church among them ; and afterwards the same person should go about to convince the ten tribes of their idolatry in worshipping god , by the calves of dan and bethel : would this be thought a sufficient way of answering him , to say , that he contradicted himself , by granting them a true church and yet charging them with idolatry ? whereas the only true consequence would be , that he thought some kind of idolatry consistent with the being of a church . might not such a person justly say , that they made a very ill use of his charity , when he supposed only that kind of idolatry which implyes more gods than one , to unchurch a people ; but however , those persons were more concerned to vindicate themselves from idolatry of any kind , than he was to defend his charitable opinion of them ; and if they could prove to him , that this inferiour sort of idolatry does unchurch them as well as the grosser , the consequence of it would be that his charity must be so much the less , but their danger would be the same . this is just our case with the church of rome ; we acknowledge that they still retain the fundamental articles of the christian faith , that there is no dispute between them and us about the true god and his son iesus christ , as to his death , resurrection , glory , and being the proper object of divine worship ; we yield that they have true baptism among them , in the name of the father , son , and holy ghost ; and we looking upon these as the essentials of a true church , do upon that account own that church to be so : but then we charge the roman church , with gross corrupting that worship which is proper to the divine nature , by her worship of images , adoration of the host , and invocation of saints ; which being done , not in express terms against the worship of the true god , but by consequence , we do not think this doth destroy the being of a church among them ; although it makes the salvation of persons in her communion extreamly hazardous : and after we have gone about to prove this by many and weighty arguments , is it reasonable for any one to tell us that we contradict our selves , and therefore our arguments do signifie nothing ? whereas in truth , here is no appearance of a contradiction to that which is our own sense in this matter . for what shadow of a contradiction is it , to say , that the roman church is a true church , and yet is guilty of idolatry ; supposing that we believe some sort of idolatry which is very sinful , not to be yet of so high a nature as to unchurch those who practise it ; and we choose the instance of the ten tribes for the ground of this charity . if they can prove that all sorts of idolatry do necessarily destroy the essentials of a church , the consequence is , we must have less charity for them , than we had before ; and such a concession from us doth not shew their guilt to be less , but only our charity to be greater . suppose a man should exceed in his charity towards a person guilty of some grievous faults , and say , he believes he may be a pious man for all this ; but withall severely reproves him for his faults , and tells him the danger he continually runs by such actions ; would it be fair for such a man to answer him , that his reproofs were not to be regarded , because he contradicted himself , for he told him he believed him to be a pious man , and yet upbraided him with those faults which were inconsistent with piety ? what would the consequence of this be to the thing it self ? would this make those faults ever the less , because he judged so charitably of the person notwithstanding his committing them ? but when we allow the church of rome to be a true church , we are far from understanding by that a sound or a good church free from corruptions , which would be the most proper sense to found a contradiction upon , in this matter of idolatry ; but we mean no more by it , than as a man is a true man though he hath the plague upon him ; those which we account the essentials of a church we deny not to it , but withall , we contend that it is over-run with such corruptions in worship , as do mightily endanger the salvation of those who live in the communion of it . . having thus discovered the disingenuity of making so bad a use of our charity against us , i now come to shew how sophistical this way of answering is , by a closer examination of it . first , the starting of a new objection answers no argument , and all that this amounts to is only raising a new difficulty ; whereas he ought in the first place to have answered all the arguments i had brought to prove them guilty of idolatry ; and when he had done this fairly and plainly ( which for some good reasons he had no mind to do ) he might then have insisted on the inconsistency of it with principles owned by me ; but to do this without giving an answer , so much as to any one argument , is a clear evidence of a sophistical and cavilling humour , rather than of any intention to satisfie an inquisitive mind . . the force of this objection lyes in the different sense and meaning of several expressions made use of by him , which being explained , the objection will signifie nothing . for if we rightly understand the notion of idolatry , the manner of teaching it , the sense of fundamental errours and a true church , as it is owned by me , the very appearance of any contradiction vanisheth . i agree in the general , that the true notion of idolatry is , giving the honour due only to god to a meer creature ; and i desire no greater advantage against the church of rome , than from such a concession ; but then we are to understand , that this may be done several ways . . when the worship proper to the true god is given to a false god. . when the true god is acknowledged and worshipped , but the unity of the god-head is denyed , and many false gods are joyned with him in the same worship . in these two sorts of idolatry , i acknowledge that the true god is rejected , either wholly in the first way , or by consequence in the second . but withall i say , that the giving the worship to a creature which is due only to god may be consistent with the acknowledgement of one supream god , and that these ways . . when one supream god is acknowledged , but no difference is put between the external worship of him and creatures . this was the idolatry of the wiser heathen , who did in their consciences acknowledge that there was but one true and supream god , but yet gave the same worship to inferiour deities , that they did to him . these men might have pleaded for themselves , for all that i know , as much to their advantage , as those of the church of rome do against me . . when the worship proper to the true god is given to an image : or the supposing of god to be truly honoured by us , by prostrating our selves before any corporeal representation of him . this likewise the heathen were guilty of . st. paul hath long since told us of some , who profess that they know god , but in works they deny him ; so there may be some who may profess a worship due only to god , but in their actions may contradict it . as suppose a company of rebellious men , should declare over and over that they acknowledge but one soveraign power of this nation , invested in the person of the king ; but yet , should take upon themselves to raise forces , to appoint great officers of state , and require that the very same outward reverence and honour be given to them , which is given to the king himself ; would any man in his sense say , that because these men still declared the supream authority to be in the king , that there was no treason in such actions ? or that those persons contradicted themselves , who allowed that their profession was such as became good subjects , but their actions made them guilty of treason . the same we say of the church of rome ; we confess they own the supream power of the world to be in one true god , and we have no controversie with them about the essential doctrines of religion ( which is , that we mean by their being a true church ) but withal we say , they overthrow what they say in their own practice , they rob god of the honour due only to him , by giving it to angels , and saints , and images and other creatures . and what contradiction now is there in all this , and a church agreeing with us in the object of worship in general , should act contrary to its own profession , by requiring those things to be done , which take away from god that honour which is due only to him , and giving it to creatures ? and this , if i understand it , is all that this first contradiction in the charge of idolatry doth amount to . to appply this now to his own propositions , for the greater clearness and satisfaction of all indifferent persons ▪ his first proposition i agree to , viz. that 't is an article of faith , and a fundamental point of religion , that the honour which is due only to god is not to be given to a meer creature . but i desire it may be taken notice of , that this proposition is sophistically expressed ; for although it be no dispute between us , whether that honour which is due only to god , may be given to a creature , yet it is a very great one , and the foundation of the charge of idolatry , what that honour is which is due only to god : and in case we can prove that they do give to meer creatures any part of that honour which is due to god , it cannot at all excuse them to say , that they acknowledge it to be idolatry to give that honour , which they suppose to be due only to god , to a meer creature . this proposition therefore , though in it self true , is captiously set down , and with an intention only to deceive unwary readers , as will appear by the next proposition . . to teach idolatry is to err against the formentioned article of faith and fundamental point of religion ; i. e. to teach idolatry , is to teach that the honour which is due only to god is to be given to a meer creature . that this is to teach idolatry , no one questions ; but our question is , whether they who do not teach this proposition , may not teach men to do those things , whereby the worship due only to god will be given to a meer creature ? if he can prove , that they who do not in terms declare that they do not dishonour god cannot dishonour him ; if he can demonstrate , that those who do not teach that the honour which is due only to god is to be given to a creature , cannot possibly by any actions of theirs rob him of that honour which is due to him : this will be much more to his purpose than any thing he hath yet said . and this proposition , if he had proceeded as he ought to have done , should not have been a particular affirmative but an universal negative ; for it is not enough to say , that to teach idolatry is to teach that the honour which is due only to god is to be given to a creature , but that no church which doth not teach this can be guilty of idolatry ; for his design being to clear the roman church , his proposition ought to be so framed that all particulars may be comprehended under it . but because he may say , his immediate intention was , not to clear their church from idolatry , but to accuse me of a contradiction , i proceed to the next proposition . . a church that does not err against any article of faith , nor against any fundamental point of religion , does not teach idolatry . this proposition is likewise very sophistical and captious ; for by article of faith and fundamental point of religion is either understood , the main fundamental points of doctrine contained in the apostles creed , and then i affirm , that a church which doth own all the fundamentals of doctrine , may be guilty of idolatry , and teach those things , wherein it lyes ; but if by not erring against any article of faith , be meant , that a church which doth not err at all in matters of religion cannot teach idolatry , the proposition is true , but impertinent . . that the church of rome doth teach veneration of images , adoration of the host , and invocation of saints , is agreed on both sides . . that the roman church does not err against any article of faith or fundamental point of religion ; this being that concession of ours , from whence all the force of his argument is taken , must be explained according to our own sense of it , and not according to that which he puts upon it ; which that it may be better understood , i shall both shew in what sense this concession is made by us , as to the church of rome , and of what force it is in this present debate . for the clearer understanding in what sense it is made by us , we are to consider the occasion of the controversie about fundamentals between us and the church of rome : which ought to be taken from that book to which he referrs . there we find the occasion of it to be , the romanists contending that all points defined by the church are fundamental , or necessary to salvation , on the account of such a definition ; upon this the controversie about fundamentals was managed against them , with a design to prove that all things defined by the church of rome are not fundamental , or necessary to be believed by all persons in order to their salvation , because they were so defined . to this purpose i enquired . . what the grounds are , on which any thing doth become necessary to salvation ? . whether any thing whose matter is not necessary , and is not required by an absolute command in scripture , can by any means whatsoever afterwards become necessary ? . whether the church hath power , by any proposition or definition , to make anything become necessary to salvation , and to be believed as such , which was not so before ? for the first , i proposed two things . . what things are necessary to the salvation of men as such , or considered in their single or private capacities ? . what things are necessary to be owned in order to salvation by christian societies , or as the bonds and conditions of ecclesiastical communion ? for the resolving of this i laid down these three propositions . . that the very being of a church , doth suppose the necessity of what is required to be believed in order to salvation . . whatever church owns those things , which are antecedently necessary to the being of a church , cannot so long cease to be a true church . and here i expresly distinguished between the essentials of a church , and those things which were required to the integrity or soundness of it , among which latter i reckoned the worship of god in the way prescribed by him . . that the union of the catholick church depended upon the agreement of it in things antecedently necessary to its being . from hence i proceeded to shew , that nothing ought to be owned as necessary to salvation by christian societies , but such things which by all those societies are acknowledged antecedently necessary to the being of the catholick church . and here i distinguished between necessary articles of faith , and particular agreements for the churches peace . i did not therefore deny , but that it was in the power of particular churches , to require a subscription to articles of religion , opposite to the errours and abuses which they reformed ; but i denyed it to be in the power of any church to make those things necessary articles of faith , which were not so before . and here it was i shewed the moderation of the church of england above that of rome ; in that our church makes no articles of faith , but such as have the testimony and approbation of the whole christian world of all ages , and are acknowledged to be such by rome it self : but the church of rome imposeth new articles of faith , to be believed as necessary to salvation ; as appears by the bull of pius . this is my plain meaning , which half-witted men have stretched and abused to several ill purposes : but not to wander from my present subject , what is it that i. w. can hence infer to his purpose ? viz. that from hence it follows that the church of rome does not erre against any article of faith , or any point necessary to salvation ; which if it be only meant of those essential points of faith , which i suppose antecedently necessary to the being of a church , i deny it not , but do not see of what use this concession can be to them in the present debate : since in the following discourse i made the ancient creeds of the catholick church the best measure of those things , which were believed to be necessary to salvation : so that the force of the argument comes to this , whatsoever church does embrace the ancient creeds cannot be guilty of idolatry ; but the church of rome doth embrace all the ancient creeds by my own concession , therefore it is a contradiction for me to grant that they hold the ancient creeds , and yet to charge them with idolatry . and these matters being thus made plain , there is no great difficulty to answer , by denying the major proposition , and asserting that a church which does own all the articles of faith which are contained in them , may yet teach and practise those things , which take away from that worship which is proper only to god , and give it to meer creatures ; as i have proved the church of rome doth in the worship of images , adoration of the host , and invocation of saints . but to make this yet more plain , there are two things we consider in a church , the essence , and the soundness of it ; as in a man , we consider his being a man and his health : when we discourse of his meer being , we enquire into no more than those things which make him a man , whether he be sound or not : so in a church , when we enquire into the essentials of it , we think it not necessary to go any farther than the doctrinal points of faith ; the reason is , because baptism admits men into the church upon the profession of the true faith in the father , son , and holy ghost ; and whatever is sufficient to make a member of the church , that is in it self sufficient , being embraced , to make a church ; but when we enquire farther into the moral integrity , or soundness of a church , then we think our selves bound , not barely to know what is acknowledged and received , but how far it is so ; and whether that church which owns the fundamentals of christian faith , doth not by gross and damnable errours corrupt the worship of god , and debauch those very principles which they profess to own . and in this respect none of us ever said , that the church of rome did not err ; nay we do say and have manifestly proved , that she hath erred against the christian faith , by introducing palpable errours in doctrine , and manifold superstitions and idolatries in practice . from hence it plainly appears , that the concession i. w. urges me with of the church of rome being a true church signifies nothing , in the sense by me intended , which contradicts the charge of idolatry ; unless they can prove that none who own the apostles creed , or their baptism , can so long as they so do , teach idolatry , or be guilty of giving the honour due only to god to meer creatures . these things being thus explained , i hope the sophistry of this way of arguing is made so evident , that no man of understanding , that resolves not before hand what to believe , is capable of being deceived by it . before i come to the next contradiction charged upon me , i shall for the diversion of the reader , and the suitableness of the matter , take notice of his appendix , wherein i. w. goes about so pleasantly to prove me an idolater , by a notable trick , which it seems came into his head a little too late , after he had finisht this worthy treatise . i should have suspected it had been intended only for a piece of drollery , but that the man so severely rebukes me for it , and withall talks of nothing less than demonstration in the case . what ? ( thought i ) is it come to this at last ? and am i become an idolater too , who was never apt to think my self enclined so much as to superstition ? but what can not the controverting wit of man do , upon second and serious thoughts ? all the comfort i found left was towards the conclusion , wherein he confesses that the same argument proves the prophets , evangelists and holy ghost himself to be idolaters ; nay then , i hoped there was no great harm to be feared in so good company ; and by that consideration armed my self against this terrible assault . but at last as he made nearer approaches to me , i found no mischief was like to come , but what i brought upon my self ; for he charged me with nothing but my own artillery , and the train that was laid to blow me up was fetched from my own stores ; only he had disposed it in a way fittest for this deep design . but the best of it was , his plot went no farther than my idolatry , and both lay only in imagination . for there he makes the seat of my idolatry , which he demonstratively proves must be so by my own argument . i shall therefore conside● what that was , and with what great art he imploys it against me . among other arguments to shew that the prohibition of worshipping images was not peculiar to the iews , but of an unalterable nature , i insisted upon gods declaring the unsuitableness of it to his own infinite and incomprehensible nature , which could not be represented to men , but in a way which must be an infinite disparagement to it . to whom will ye liken god ? or what likeness will ye compare to him ? it is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth , &c. and the reason given of the law it self was , because they saw no s●militude of god ; from hence i shewed , that the wisest nations and persons among the heathen looked on the worship of god by images , as unsuitable to a divine and infinite being , and that the gospel still more discovered gods spiritual nature , and the agreeableness of spiritual worship to him ; that the apostles urged this argument against the heathen idolatry ; and the fathers of the church thought the reason of this law did equally oblige us with the iews ; now by what art doth he from hence prove me necessarily to be an idolater , as well as they of the church of rome , who worship god by images against the very words and reason of this law ? the argument is briefly summed up by himself thus : whoever worships god represented in a way far inferiour to his greatness is an idolater ; but whosoever worships god represented to him without the beatifical vision , either by words or by imaginations as well as images , he worships god in a way far inferiour to his greatness ; ergo , whoever worships god represented unto him without the beatifical vision is an idolater : but dr. st. worships god without the beatifical vision ( no doubt of it ) ergo , dr. st. is an idolater : there is no help for it . nay , from hence he proves , that i cannot so much as think of god without idolatry my self , nor preach of him without provoking others to it . o the insuperable force of reason , and the dint of demonstration ! but the mischief is , all this subtilty is used against the law-maker and not against me . did i not cite the words of god himself , who therefore did forbid the making any likeness of him , because nothing could be like him ? is there no difference between having imperfect conceptions of god in our minds , and making unworthy representations of him to our senses , with a design to worship them ? why did not god as well forbid the one as he did the other ? were the israelites then in the beatifical vision ? were their conceptions of god suitable to his incomprehensible nature ? if not , why were they not forbidden as well to think of god as to make any images of him ? is god as much disparaged by the necessary weakness of our understandings , as by voluntarily false and corporeal images of him ? nay doth not god design to prevent the errour of our imaginations by such prohibitions as those are ? and thereby commands us to think worthily of him , and when we pray to him , to consider him only as an infinite being in his nature and attributes ? i do not know what imaginations others have of god ; it may be those in the church of rome measure all by themselves , and god by their images of him , and thence conclude , that no men can think of god , but as they picture him , like an old man sitting in heaven ; but i assure them , i never had such an imagination of him , and if i had , should think it very unworthy of him . i know no other conception of god , but of a being infinitely perfect ; and this is rather an intellectual apprehension , than a material imagination of him . i am assured that he is , by mighty and convincing arguments , but to bring him down to my imagination , is to contradict the evidence that i have of his being ; for the same reasons which convince me that he is , do likewise convince me that he is infinite in power , and wisdom , and goodness . if i thought otherwise of him , i should know no reason to give him the worship of my mind and soul. although my conceptions cannot reach his greatness , yet they do not confine it , nor willfully debase it ; they do not bring him down to the meanness of a corporeal image . but because we cannot think highly enough of god , must we therefore devise ways to expose him to contempt and scorn ? and we cannot but despise a deity to whom any image can be like . but such absurd and silly arguments deserve no farther confutation . they indeed may take more liberty , who write to those who are bound not to judge of what is writ , but only to cry it up . as for us , who think it not fit to have our people in such slavery , we dare not venture such idle stuff among them . i come therefore to the second contradiction he charges me with , which is , concerning the danger of salvation which they are lyable to who communicate with the roman church , when yet i acknowledge that church to be a true church , and therefore to be a true way to salvation : and withall arch b. laud , whom i defend , doth grant a possibility of salvation to those in the church of rome . the force of this contradiction depending on these concessions , i shall , . shew in what sense they are granted by us . . examin the strength of the propositions he draws from hence , towards the making this a contradiction . . concerning the roman church being a true church : the arch-bishops adversary having falsely charged him with granting the roman church to be a right church , he complains of his injustice in it ; and saith , that it is a church and a true church he granted , but not a right church ; for truth only imports the being ; right , perfection in conditions ; thus a thief is a true man , though not an upright man. so a corrupt church may be true , as a church is a company of men which profess the faith of christ , and are baptized into his name ; but it is not therefore a right church either in doctrine or manners ; and again saith , it is true in that sense , as ens and verum , being and true , are convertible one with another ; and every thing that hath a being is truly that being which it is in truth of subtance . the replyer to him , saith , that the notion of a church implyes integrity and perfection of conditions ; upon which i gave him this answer , that he did herein betray his weak or willful mistakes of a church morally for metaphysically true . if he could prove it impossible for a church to retain its being that hath any errours in doctrine , or corruptions in practice , he would therein do something to the purpose ; but when he had done it , all that he would get by it was , that then we should not so much as acknowledge the roman church to be metaphysically a true church ; and therefore the reader is left to judge , whether his lordships charity for , or his testimony against their church was built upon better grounds . by this it is evident in what sense it was granted , that the roman church was a true church . . concerning possibility of salvation in that church ; to the question that was asked my lord of canterbury , whether a person might be saved in the roman faith ? he gives this answer , that the ignorant that could not discern the errours of that church , so they held the foundation and conformed themselves to a religious life might be saved : and after explains himself more fully , that might be saved grants but a possibility , no sure or safe way of salvation ; the possibility , i think , saith he , cannot be denyed to the ignorants , especially because they hold the foundation and cannot survey the building . and the foundation can deceive no man that rests upon it : but a secure way they cannot go , that hold with such corruptions when they know them . and again , many protestants indeed confess , there is salvation possible to be attained in the roman church ; but yet they say withall , that the errours of that church are so many , ( and some so great , as weaken the foundation ) that it is very hard to go that way to heaven , especially to them that have had the truth manifested . and in another place , i do indeed for my part ( leaving other men free to their own judgement ) acknowledge a possibility of salvation in the roman church : but so as that which i grant to romanists , is not as they are romanists , but as they are christians , that is , as they believe the creed , and hold the foundation christ himself , not as they associate themselves wittingly and knowingly to the gross superstitions of the roman church . and i am willing to hope there are many among them , which keep within that church , and yet wish the superstitions abolished which they know , and which pray to god to forgive their errours in what they know not , and which hold the foundation firm and live accordingly , and would have all things amended that are amiss , were it in their power . and to such i dare not deny a possibility of salvation , for that which is christs in them , though they hazard themselves extreamly , by keeping so close to that which is superstition , and in the case of images comes too near idolatry . these are my lord of canterburies own words , and laid together in my defence of him , which i. w. ought to have represented , if he had designed any thing but sophistry and trifling . but his game had been then quite spoiled ; the fine sport of making contradictions had been lost , and his cross purposes had come to nothing . i now come to see what contradictions he wire-draws from hence by the help of his propositions . . whoever is in a condition , wherein he is certainly saved , is in no danger or probability of being damned . if by he is certainly saved , he speaks of the event , then he were a hard hearted man that would not grant , that he that is actually saved is in no danger or probability of being damned ; if he means it of a certain way to salvation , then it is yet capable of several meanings . for to be in a certain way may imply one of these three things . . that the way it self is so plain that a man cannot miss of it . . or that the way is in it self certain , but there are so many by-paths and turnings lying hard by it , that it is a very hard matter for any man to keep in it . . to be in a certain way , is , when not only the way it self is certain , but a man keeps constantly in that way . according to these several senses this proposition may be understood ; if by it be meant . . he that is in a certain way to salvation , is in no danger or probability of being damned , i. e. he that keeps constantly in that way which will certainly lead him to heaven , the proposition is true , but impertinent ; but if by it be meant no more but this , that he is in a way which in it self leads to heaven , but there are so many cross and by-paths near it , that though it be possible for him to hit it , yet it is extreamly hazardous , no one can imagine that such a one is in no probability of miscarrying , for we say he is in very great danger of it , notwithstanding the tendency of the way it self . . prop. whoever lives and dyes in a true way to salvation , having conformed to its directions , or whoever has done all that was necessary to attain unto salvation is in a condition , wherein he is certainly saved . the sophistry of this is so palpable , that the weakest eye may discern it ; for it supposes that true way to salvation wherein he lives to be a very safe and secure way , i. e. that it be not only true in it self , but free from such errours and corruptions which may endanger salvation ; and in that sense it is true , but very far from the purpose . for none of us did ever yield that the roman church is a safe way to salvation ; nay it is expresly denyed by my lord of canterbury , as well as by me . but here lyes still another piece of sophistry to be taken notice of , whoever hath done all that was necessary to attain salvation , is in a condition wherein he is certainly saved ; no doubt of it ; but the doing all that is necessary to salvation is not bare believing the necessary articles of faith , contained in the creed , but obeying the will of god ; which cannot be done by those who wilfully adhere to gross and open violations of it ; as i have charged the church of rome to do , in her solemn acts of worship . their cause certainly is at a very low ebb when such pittiful sophistry , must pass for reasoning and demonstration among them . never men had more need of a self-evidencing cause , as well as propositions , than they ; so little help do they contribute to it by their writings . prop. the roman church is a true way to salvation , and teaches all that is necessary to attain unto it . this is granted , he saith , by me and other protestants , when we acknowledge the roman church to be a true church ; but in what sense , i have already explained , so far as to leave no colour of arguing from hence to any contradiction in me . for this true way to salvation in our sense is no more , but that the church of rome doth acknowledge so much of christian faith , as is sufficient to save men , on condition they live accordingly , and do not by gross corruptions in doctrine or practice render that faith ineffectual to them : but withall we assert and maintain , that to these necessary articles of christian faith , the church of rome hath added such errours and corruptions , as make the salvation of any person extreamly hazardous , who lives in the communion of it . and let them have all the comfort from hence which they can , i am sure they have not this , that they have brought me to contradict my self by such concessions as these . by this , his last proposition comes to nothing ; whoever lives and dyes in the communion of the roman church , having conformed to her doctrine , lives and dyes in a true way to salvation having conformed to its directions , and has done all that was necessary to attain to it . which evidently supposes that we yield that the doctrine of the roman church , is a safe way to salvation , which we utterly deny ; all that we assert is , that so much of the common principles of christianity , as is retained in the roman church is sufficient for the salvation of those , who do not wilfully corrupt them by bad opinions and practices , or if they have , do repent sincerely . but for those who conform themselvs to the doctrine and directions of the roman church as such , we are far from ever saying that such live and dye in a true way to salvation ; for this were to make those doctrines and directions to be as holy and innocent as we believe them to be false and pernicious . see now what a contradiction here is ; for me to assert the church of rome to be a true church , because it retains the fundamentals of christianity ; and yet to make the condition of those who live in it so hazardous in point of salvation , by reason of the gross errours , which men are bound to believe as necessary points of faith ; and horrible superstitions which they must conform to , if they follow her directions . surely he could not but know this to be our meaning , and consequently to have no shadow of contradiction in it , no more than is in this plain proposition , that a possible way to salvation may yet be very dangerous . but though iugglers know their own cheats , they would lose their trade if they made them known to the people . something must be said to amuse them , and this seemed the prettiest way , to confound them , by dazeling their eyes with such appearances of contradictions : and thereby to perswade their own party , that they need not fear the the attaque of such an enemy who falls foul upon himself . but it is nothing but the mist he casts before their eyes , can make any have such an imagination ; it is but making things clear , and then nothing but order and agreement appears . but yet he quarrels with me , for making the case of living in willful sin and in the corruptions of the roman church parallel with each other ; . because i will not grant that a willful sin , such as adultery , to be a true way to heaven ; and doth he think that i ever imagined idolatry and gross superstition to be so ; if i grant that in the church of rome they have a true way to heaven , it is as other debauched christians have , who own faith enough to save them , but their destruction comes from not living agreeably to it . . because i grant more to them than to iews or pagans , yet they may be saved if they do repent . true , but they are not in so great likelyhood of repenting , as those who own the fundamental articles of the christian faith , and have a sincere desire in general to serve god according to his will ; the grace of god being more plentiful , where the christian faith is owned , than where it is rejected ; upon which account iews and heathens are in more danger of not repenting , and consequently of salvation than those that live in the roman church . . because i grant a greater capacity of salvation to roman catholicks than they do to protestants ; but they do not d●ny it to protestants if they repent . but the difference lyes in the nature and acts of the rep●●tance required ; we say a 〈◊〉 repentanced and a vertuous sincere mind , which desires to know & do the will of god may be sufficient , together with a particular repentance of all known miscarriages ; but they say such a repentacne is necessary for us , as does imply a disowning our church , as such wherein no salvation is to be had , and a joyning with the communion of the church of rome : therefore the question about their charity and ours , is about the possibility of the salvation of persons living and dying in the communion of either church ; we say on the conditions before mentioned , men may be saved , though they do not in terms renounce their communion , but they say that none who do not return to their communion can be saved ; and in this we justly charge them with horrible uncharitableness , when many of their writers allow a greater possibility of salvation to meer heathens . . because arch-bishop laud grants a greater capacity of salvation than other protestants ; but in what sense i have already shewed . . that this is in effect to say , that it is a true way to heaven if they go out of it . not if they go out of it so far as it is true , but so far only as it is false and dangerous . if a man were going the right way from london to york , as far as stamford , and there went quite out of his way into the fens , here his life is in danger ; if i should tell this man that the way from london to york was a certain way , that the way he went in as far as stamford was a true way , and if he had kept in it , would have brought him to york , but the way he is now in is very dangerous , and if he does not return , his life is in perpetual hazard ; is this all one as if i should tell him , while you were in the true way , you must go out of it ? no such sense can be put upon such words , by any man that hath sense ; and for others , we give them leave to cry nonsense and contradiction . all his other petty objections run upon the same palpable mistake , and it would be but repeating the same thing to answer the other remaining cavils upon this argument . i come therefore to the sore place indeed , the touching whereof hath made them to kick and wince so much at me ; and that is the fanaticism of the roman church . which made them complain to caesar , that it was a new crime , and never heard of before . what ? they ; the sober , the judicious , the wise people of the church of rome turned fanaticks ! it's false , it 's impossible ; nay , it is absolutely and utterly impossible to be true ; and none but atheists can charge them with it . this hath been their common way of answering to this new charge ; but not one wise word hath been said in a just vindication of themselves , by giving answer to those many plain , and undenyable instances i have produced . i wished for no other tryal than to be bound to bring forth their own authors , and to make good the authorities i had cited , and my fidelity therein ; but they have fairly declined this way of tryal . but how then can they free themselves from this imputation ? we have men of art to deal with , and it is some pleasure to observe the skill they use in warding off a blow they did not look for . but if they have nothing more to say then i. w. can help them to , the charge will stick the faster , for his attempt to clear them of it . he begins with a description of fanaticism , which , he saith , doth necessarily contain a resistance of authority ; and for this , very unhappily quotes my own words . by fanaticism we understand either an enthusiastick way af religion , or resisting authority under pretence of religion ; just as if one should say the true notion of idolatry implyes the renouncing the true god , and to prove it should quote words of mine to this purpose , that idolatry is either renouncing the true god , or worshipping the true god by an image : for as in that case , it is evident , i make two sorts of idolatry ; so it is as plain in this , that i make two branches of fanaticism , whereof the one is , an enthusiastick way of religion , the other resistance of authority under the pretence of religion . but if this be the true notion of fanaticism , why doth he not speak one word in vindication of them , from that very kind of fanaticism , which i had charged them to be so deeply guilty of ? had i not proved by plain testimonies , that the most fanatick principles of rebellion were owned by the jesuitical party among them ? viz. the kings deriving his power from the people , and the peoples authority to call the king to an account , and if they see good to take away his power and change the government : and not only so but to take away his life too ? had i not proved by clear and late instances , that the party which owns these principles is to this day the most countenanced and encouraged at rome ? and any honest men among them , as to these principles , are on that account hated and persecuted , as p. w. and his brethren . but why no answer to this charge ? these are things they cannot deny , and yet dare not confess them to be true . if i. w. answer again , let him speak out like a man , and either confess and detest these principles , or we shall charge them farther with this worst and most dangerous sort of fanaticism . my duty and just zeal for his majesties interest and security , will not suffer me to let go this part of the charge against them , although they would fain have it passed over in silence , as though never a word had been said concerning it . this is one of the best arts i have met with in this pamphlet ; for unwary readers will not remember the charge , when they find no answer : but if i. w. had attempted to answer it , his shuffling and tricks might have made the deeper impression in the readers minds . remember then this charge stands good against them , without so much as their pretending to answer it . to come now to the other part of fanaticism , viz. an enthusiastick way of religion : and here to proceed clearly , i shall lay down the method of his defence , and then examine it . the strength of his defence lyes in these propositions . . that fanaticism does necessarily contain a resistance against authority . . no particular ways of religion , countenanced by a competent authority , are fanaticism . . those things which concern religious orders and method of devotion , which i charge them with , are countenanced by a competent authority , viz. the authority of that church . . that church cannot countenance fanatism which obligeth all persons to submit to her judgement . so that here are two principles by which i. w. thinks to vindicate their church from fanaticism ; viz. competent authority , and submission of judgement to the church . to shew the invalidity of this answer , i shall do these things . . shew the insufficiency of it . . the monstrous absurdities consequent upon it . . if this answer were sufficient , he must make it appear , that there have been none charged by me as fanaticks in their church , but such as have submitted themselves and their judgement to the authority of their church . for let us consider the occasion of this charge , and we shall presently discern the insufficiency of this way of answering it . the occasion was , that my adversary made all the sects and fanaticisms among us to be the effect of the reformation ; what answer could be more proper in this case , than to shew , that there were as wild and extravagant fanaticisms before , as have been since ? which is a plain evidence that cannot be the cause of them , to which they imputed them . to make this out , i searched into the several sorts of fanaticism , and gave instances very clear of as great fanaticks in the times before the reformation , as have been since : from the many pretenders to immediate revelations among them , who were persons allowed and approved by their church , and some of them canonized for saints ; but besides these , i gave such other instances of fanaticism among the friers , and others of their church , as were never heard of in the world before ; as the broachers and maintainers of the friers gospel , which was to put out of doors the gospel of christ ; the spiritual brethren of the order of s. francis called by several names , but especially that of fratricelli , who continued long , spread far , and more distrubed the church than any since have done , the dulcinistae in italy , the alumbrado's in spain , &c. what doth he now say concerning all these ? were these countenanced by a competent authority among them ? did they submit their judgement to the church ? if neither of these be pretended in reference to them , then this answer must be very insufficient , because it doth not reach to the matter in charge . . for those who were as he saith , countenanced by authority , and did submit themselves to the church , yet this doth not clear them from fanaticism ; but draws after it these monstrous absurdities . . that prevailing fanaticism ceases to be fanaticism ; like treason , which when it prospers none dare call it treason ; an excellent way , this , to vindicate the fanaticism of the late times , which because countenanced by an authority , supposed competent enough by some who then writ of obedience and government , it ceased to be fanaticism ; and all the wild and extravagant heats of mens brains , their enthusiasms and revelations were regular and orderly things , because countenanced by such authority as was then over them . . by this rule the prophets and apostles , nay our lord himself , were unavoidably fanaticks ; for what competent authority had they to countenance them ? the iewish church was not yet cast off while our saviour lived , but utterly opposed his doctrine and revelation , as coming from a private spirit of his own ; according therefore to these excellent principles , our b. saviour is made a meer fanatick , because he wanted a competent authority of the present church to countenance him ; the same was generally the case of the prophets , and of all the apostles . but what rocks and precipices will a bad cause drive men upon ? if that which makes fanaticism or not fanaticism , be the being countenanced or not countenanced by this competent authority , these horrible absurdities are unavoidable ; and all religion must be resolved into the will and pleasure of this competent authority . but i need not take such pains to prove this , for my brave answerer i. w. sets it down in his own words . moreover , otherwise all the particular manners of preaching or praying practised by the prophets , and all their extraordinary visions and revelations would be flat fanaticism ; but because they were countenanced by a competent authority , they could not deserve that character . excellent doctrine for a popish leviathan ! are you in earnest sir ? do you think the prophets had been fanaticks , in case of no competent authority to countenance them ? what competent authority had the prophet elijah to countenance him , when all the authority that then was , not only opposed him but sought his life ? what competent authority had any of the prophets who were sent to the ten tribes ? what had ieremiah , ezekiel , and the rest of them ? it seems then , all these excellent and inspired persons are cast into the common herd of fanaticks , for want of this competent authority to countenance them . and yet this is the man ( meerly because i lay open the fanaticism of some their pretended saints , such as ignatius loyola and s. francis ) who ranks me with lucian and porphyrie : hath he not himself a great zeal for religion the mean while , resolving all revelation into his competent authority ? and not only so , but paralleling the expressions and practices of s. brigitt , and mother juliana , ( than which scarce any thing was ever printed more ridiculous in the way of revelations ) with those of the holy prophets and apostles ? if a man designed to speak mischievously against the scriptures and divine revelation , he could not do it more to purpose than i. w. hath done in these words ? when he compares things whose folly is so manifest at the first view , with that divine wisdom , which inspired those holy persons , whom god sent upon particular messages to his people , and gave so great assurance that he sent them ; and who delivered matters of great weight and moment , and not such tittle tattle as those two womens books are fraught withall . but if this be the way they have to vindicate them from being fanaticks , it is absolutely the worst that could be thought of ; for it cannot discover so high an opinion of them , as it doth a very mean one of the books of scripture , and the divine revelations therein contained . i could here earnestly intreat the wiser men of that church , for the honour of god , and the christian religion , not to suffer such inconsiderate persons to vindicate their cause , who to defend the extravagant infirmities of some enthusiastical women among them , are so forward to cast dirt and reproach upon our common religion , and those revelations from whence we derive it . but i forbear ; only it is a shrewd sign , if this way be allowed , of a wretched cause , that cannot be maintained without plunging those , who rely upon their word , into the depths of atheism . but these are not things to be so slightly passed over , they deserve a fuller and severer chastisement . for the present , this is enough to shew , what monstrous absurdities this way of vindicating their church from fanaticism hath brought i. w. to . yet in one respect he deserves some pardon , for they are wont to write their answers upon the common themes out of some staunch authors , who considered a little better what they writ ; but this was a new charge , and neither bellarmin , becanus , nor any of their old beaten souldiers , could give them any assistance ; they found not the title of the fanaticism of the roman church in any of their common-place-books ; therefore plain mother-wit must help them , and so it hath bravely . but before they again attempt this matter , i desire them to consider these things , least they should in a desperate humour utterly give up the cause of religion , finding themselves unable to defend that of their church . . whether there can be any greater fanaticism , than a false pretence to immediate divine revelation ? for what can more expose men to all the follies and delusions imaginable , than this will do ? what actions can be so wild and extravagant but men may do , under such a pretence of immediate revelation from god ? what bounds of order and government can be preserved ? some may pretend a revelation to take up arms against their prince , or to destroy all they meet ( which is no unheard of thing ) others may not go so far , but may have revelations of the unlawfulness of kingly government ; others may pretend revelations of a new gospel , and a more spiritual dispensation than hath been yet in the world , as the mendicant friers did . . whether we are bound to believe all such who say , they have divine revelations ? or whether persons may not be deceived in thinking they have revelations , when they are only delusions of their own fancies or the devil ? if not ; then every one is to be believed who pretends to these things , and then all follies and contradictions must be fwallowed which men say they have by immediate revelation ; and every fanatick must be believed , to have divine revelation who believes himself , though he be only deluded by his own imagination , or become enthusiastical by the power of a disease in his head , or some great heat in his blood . . whether there must not be some certain rules established whereby all persons , and even competent authority it self , must proceed in judging these pretences to revelation , whether they be true or false ? for if they proceed without rule , they must either be inspired too , or else , must receive all who pretend to divine revelations : if there be any certain rules , whereby the revelation is to be judged ; then if any persons receive any revelation against those rules , whether are other persons bound to follow their judgement against those rules ? . whether there can be any more certain rule of judging , than that two things evidently contradictory to each other , cannot both come from divine revelation ? for then god must contradict himself , which is impossible to be supposed , and would overthrow the faith of any divine revelation . and this is the plain case of the revelations made to two famous saints in the roman church , s. brigitt and s. catharine ; to one it was revealed , that the b. virgin was conceived with original sin ; to the other , that she was not : both these have competent authority , for they were both canonized for saints by the roman church , and their revelations approved , and therefore ( according to i. w. ) neither of them were fanaticks , though it is certain that one of their revelations was false . for , either god must contradict himself , or one of these must be deceived , or go about to deceive , and what greater fanaticism can there be , than that is ? if one of these had only some fanatick enthusiasm , and the other divine revelation , then competent authority and submission to the judgement of the church , is not a rule to judge fanaticism by ; for those were equal in both of them . . whether there be an equal reason to look for revelations now , as in the time of the prophets , and our saviour , and his apostles ? or whether god communicates revelations to no other end , but to please and gratifie some enthusiastical tempers ? and what should be the reason he should do it more now , than in the age wherein revelations were more necessary ? in those times god revealed his mind to men , but it was for the benefit of others ; when he sent them upon particular messages , as the prophets , or made known some future events to them of great importance to the church , as the coming of the messias , &c. or inspired them to deliver weighty doctrines to the world , as he did both the prophets and apostles : why should we think , that god now , when the revelations of these holy and inspired persons are upon record , and all things necessary to his church are contained therein , should vary this method of his , and entertain some melancholy and retired women , or other enthusiastical persons with visions and revelations of no use to his church ? . whether god doth ever inspire persons with immediate revelations without giving sufficient evidence of such inspiration ? for if he did , it were to leave men under a temptation to infidelity without means to withstand it ; if he doth not , then we have reason to examine the evidence , before we believe the revelation . the evidence god gave of old was either the prophecy of a succession of prophets , by one whose commission was attested by great miracles , as moses , who told the israelites , they were to expect prophets , and laid down rules to judge of them by ; or else by miracles wrought by themselves as by the apostles whom our lord sent abroad to declare his will to the world . and where these are not , what reason is there to receive any new revelations as from god , especially when the main predictions of the new testament are of false prophets , and false miracles ? . whether the revelations of their pretended saints being countenanced by the authority of their church , be equally received among them , with the revelations contained in scripture ? if they be , then they ought to have equal reverence paid to them , and they ought to read them as scripture , to cite their authority as divine , and to believe them as infallible as christ and his apostles ; if they be not , than whatever they pretend , they are not looked on as divine revelations by them , as manifestly appears , because they are wholly rejected by some of the wisest of them , doubted of , and disputed by others , as it were easie to prove were it not too large a subject for this discourse , but by none received as writings of divine authority , and equal with the scriptures , which they must be if they came from the same spirit . and since they are not , it is evident that they are no otherwise esteemed among themselves , than as the fanatick heats of some devout persons of disturbed and deluded fancies ; whom notwithstanding they are willing to cherish , partly because they are loth to discountenance any pretence to an infallible spirit in their church , and partly that there may never be wanting matter to make saints of , when the pope thinks fit , and good consideration is offered . this may suffice to make good this charge of fanaticism against the roman church ; and to shew that i am as far from the appearance of any contradiction therein ( although their revelations are not from a real one ) as i. w's vain and sophistical talk is from any appearance of reason . the last contradiction charged upon me , is , about the divisions of the roman church . the occasion of which discourse was , that divisions were objected to me as another consequent of the reformation ; upon which i thought my self obliged to enquire into the vnity of their church , and i have at large proved from undenyable instances , attested by their own authors , that they have no reason to insult over other churches on account of their divisions , nor to boast of their own unity and peace . for i have there proved that there have never been greater disturbances in the christian world , than what they call the means of unity , viz. the popes authority , hath procured , no where greater or more lasting schisms , no where fiercer disputes about matters of order and doctrine , than among them . i considered all their salvo's and from them shew'd , that if they have no divisions among themselves neither have we ; nay the same arguments which prove they do not differ in matters of faith from each other , do likewise prove that they and we do not differ from each other in those things . and what saith i. w. to all this ? instead of healing their own divisions , he only designs to prove me to be divided against my self , that he might make up the full tale of his contradictions . but i. w. had so much forgot himself as to make good the very thing i designed ; and by that very argument he uses to prove that i contradict my self , he manifestly proves that there are no more divisions in matters of faith , between the roman church and us than there are among themselves . this i shall make very evident , but i must proceed as he doth with his propositions . . no divisions from the roman church are divisions of the roman church . this is a very subtle principle of unity among them , and by this rule there would be an admirable unity in the roman church , if the pope himself were left alone in it . for all others would only be divided from it , and i would allow the pope to be at a very good agreement with himself , which is more than i. w. will allow me : in this case indeed there would be vnity , but where would be their church ? suppose a shepherd should boast of the excellent government of a great flock he had under his command , and the unity and peace they lived in ; and a by-stander should tell him that he saw others pretend to the same authority over that flock that he did , and part followed one and part another , he saw some of the chief of the leaders set themselves against him disputing his authority , he saw many of the sheep continually fighting with each other , and some had wholly forsaken him ; would it not be a pleasant thing for this shepherd to say that notwithstanding all this they had great peace and unity , because as many as did not quarrel were very quiet , and those that were divided from his government were not under it ? but our question is , whether such authority be the means to preserve the whole flock under government , when we see it prevents no divisions but causes many ? he might have spoken more to the purpose if he had framed his proposition thus , there can be no divisions in the roman church , but such as divide men from it ; and in that case the roman church would have been reduced to a very small number . but if there may be such divisions which are as contrary to unity and peace as divisions in matters of faith are , to what purpose is it to shew that they have none in one kind if they have very great in all others ? but although this be not sufficient to demonstrate their vnity , yet it is enough for his purpose , if it doth shew that i contradict my self . but where lyes the contradiction ? the force of it lyes here . i charge them with divisions in matters of faith , when divisions in matters of faith make them not to be members of the roman church ; therefore there can be no divisions in the roman church in matters of faith . again ( for in these two arguments the substance of his own propositions is couched by himself ) all those who assent unto the ancient creeds are undivided in matters of faith ; but all roman catholicks assent unto the ancient creeds ; ergo , all roman catholicks are undivided in matters of faith , and consequently it is a calumny in me to say they are divided in these matters . now , what an easie matter is it to disposses me of this spirit of contradiction , which he imagines me possessed with ? i need no holy water , or sacred charms and exorcisms to do it with . there needs no more but understanding what is meant by matters of faith ; when matters of faith are spoken of by me in the place he refers to , it is evident to every one that reads it , and by his own words i speak only of the fundamental and necessary articles of faith , which are necessary to the salvation of all and to the very being of a church ; of which kind i say none ought to be esteemed , that were not admitted into the ancient creeds . but when i charge them with divisions in matters of faith , i do not mean that they reject the ancient creeds , but i take matters of faith in their own sense for things defined by the church ; and if i. w. had sought for any thing but words to raise cavils upon , he might have found it so explained in the very place where i speak of this . for that discourse is to answer an objection of theirs , that they do not differ in those things which they esteem matters of faith ; and particularly i insisted upon that , that they cannot be sure whether they differ in matters of faith or no , because they are not agreed what makes things to become matters of faith . can this be understood any other way than of their own sense of matters of faith ? and is not this fair dealing to make me contradict my self because where i argue against them i take matters of faith in their sense , and where i deliver my own opinion , i take them in another sense ? and this being the sense of matters of faith the trifling of his arguing appears ; for do all these cease to be members of their church who dispute any thing which others account matter of faith among them ? are the iesuits all out of the church of rome , because they deny the efficacy of grace which the domini●ans account a matter of faith ? are the iansenists and oral traditionists divided from the church of rome because they deny the popes infallibility which the iesuits account a matter of faith ? if not , then all divisions in matters and articles of faith , are not divisions from the true church and from all her members ; and so his second proposition comes to nothing : and so likewise the third , that all divisions in matters of faith , so esteemed by them , are divisions from the roman church . but the fourth and fifth propositions are the most healing principles that have yet been thought on . fie for shame ! why should we and they of the church of rome quarrel thus long ? we are very well agreed in all matters of faith , and i shall demonstratively prove it from the argument of i. w. drawn from his two last propositions . all who assent unto the ancient creeds are undivided in matters of faith , by prop. . but both papists and protestants do assent unto the ancient creeds ; ergo , they are undivided in matters of faith and hath not i. w. now done his business , and very substantially proved the thing he intended ? but i hope we may enjoy the benefit of it , as well as those of the church of rome ; and that they will not hence forward charge us with dividing from their church in any matters of faith , since we are all agreed in owning the ancient creeds ; and seeing , we cannot be divided from the church but by differing in matters of faith according to his propos. it follows that we are still members of the true church , and therefore neither guilty of heresie nor schism . but if those who do own and assent to the ancient creeds may yet be divided in matters of faith , as they charge us by rejecting the definitions of the roman church , then there is no shadow of a contradiction left in my charging them with differences in matters of faith among themselves , though i say , they own the ancient creeds . and now , reader , thou seest what all these pitiful cavils are come to ; and what ground there hath been for them to glory in this pusionello , that with a sheet and a half hath compelled me , as he saith , to be my own executioner . but these great heroes must be allowed to relate their famous adventures , with some advantage to themselves : it might have been enough to have rescued the lady , but not only to destroy the giant ( as any man must be accounted whom such knights encounter ) but to leave him grovelling in the ground and gasping for breath , and that by wounds he forced him to give himself , this is beyond measure glorious . go thy way then for the eighth champion of christendom , enjoy the benefit of thy illustrious fame , sit down at ease , and relate to thy immortal honour thy mighty exploits ; only when thou hast done , remember thou hast encountred nothing but the wind-mills of thy own imagination , and the man whom thou thought'st to have executed by his own hands , stands by and laughs at thy ridiculous attempts . but i forget , that i am so near his conclusion , wherein he doth so gravely advise me that i would be pleased for once to write controvesies , not play-books : his meaning i suppose , is , that i would return to the old beaten road where they know how to find a man , and have something to say because others have said something before them ; and not represent the ridiculous passages of their fanaticks ; for the defence of which they are furnisht with no distinctions out of their usual magazines , their present manuals of controversie . i shall be contented to wait their leisure if they have any thing material to say ; as i. w. gives me some hopes , when he saith , that other more learned pens ( i shall be glad to see them ) will give me a more particular and compleat answer . i hope not in the way of cavilling ; if they do , i shall hereafter only contemn them ; but i am afraid of their good intentions by the books he mentions as such considerable things in answer to my vindication of arch-bishop laud , viz. the guide in controversies , and protestancy without principles ; if others write as they have done , i shall take as little notice of them as i have done of those . cannot a dull book come out with my name in the title , but i must be obliged to answer it ? no , i assure them i know better how to spend my time . i say still , let a just answer come forth , that deals by me as i did by the book i answered , and then let them blame me , if i neglect it . but at last he gives one general reason why no great matter is to be expected to come abroad in print : not , but that they have men of learning among them : no doubt of it : but alas for them ! they are so persecuted in the printing houses that nothing of theirs is suffered to come abroad , only by great good fortune this complaint is in print and comes abroad openly enough . how long i pray have these days of persecution been ? for , whatever you imagine i was so far from having any hand in it , that the first time i ever heard of it , was from your complaints . have you not formerly complained thus , when books too many have been printed and published in england ? and what assurance can you give us that you do not still complain without cause ? but , not to suffer you to deceive the people any longer in this kind ( by pretending that this is the reason why you do not answer our books , because you have no liberty of the press ) i have at this time a catalogue by me of above two hundred popish books printed in our own language ( which i shall produce on a just occasion ) a considerable part whereof have been published within the compass of not many years . and yet all possible efforts are used by us ( saith i. w. ) to hinder their doctors from shewing their learning ; this of late we must needs say , they have very sparingly done ; but all the arts we have , cannot hinder some of them from shewing their weakness , as this i. w. hath very prodigally done in this pamphlet . finis . an answer to the book , entituled , dr. stillingfleet's principles considered . although i write no plays , yet i hope i may have leave to say the scene is changed ; for instead of the former sophister , one now comes forth in the habit of a grave divine , whom i shall treat with the respect due to his appearance of modesty and civility . i pass by therefore all those unhandsome reflections in his preface , which i have not already answered in mine , and come immediately to the main controversie between us , which i acknowledge to be of so great importance as to deserve a sober debate . and the controversie in short is this , whether protestants who reject the roman churches authority and infallibility , can have any sufficient foundation to build their faith upon ? this we affirm , and those of the church of rome confidently deny ; and on this account do charge us with the want of principles , i. e. sufficient grounds for our faith . but this may be understood two ways . . that we can have no certainty of our faith as christians without their infallibility . . or that we can have no certainty of our faith as protestants , i. e. in the matters in debate between their church and ours . these two ought carefully to be distinguished from each other : and although the principles i laid down , do reach to both these , yet that they were chiefly intended for the former , will appear by the occasion of adding them to the end of the answer there given . the occasion was , my adversaries calling for grounds and principles ; upon which i there say , that i would give an account of the faith of protestants in the way of principles , and of the reason of our rejecting their impositions . the first i undertook on two accounts . . to shew that the roman churches authority and infallibility cannot be the foundation of christian faith , and so we may be very good christians without having any thing to do with the church of rome . . that this might serve as a sufficient answer to a book entituled protestants without principles . which being in some part of it directed against me i had reason , not only to lay down those principles , b●t to do it in such a manner as did most directly overthrow the principles of that book . which being only intimated there , i must now to make my proceeding more clear and evident , produce those assertions of e. w. for which mine were intended . in the first chapter he designs to prove , that all men must be infallible in the assent they give to matters of faith . for , saith he , if they disown such infallible believers , they must joyntly deny all infallible faith : and a little after , an infallible verity revealed to us forcibly requires an answerable and correspondent infallible faith in us : and therefore he asserts a subjective infallibility in true believers . and from hence he proves the necessity of infallible teachers ; for infallible believers and infallible teachers , he saith , seem neer correlatives . in the second chapter he saith , he that hears an infallible teacher hath the spirit of truth , and he that hears not an infallible teacher wants this spirit of truth ; by which he does not mean an infallible revealer of the doctrine at first ; but the immediate teachers of the revealed doctrine , for , saith he , no man can be a heretick that denies the objective verities revealed in gods word , unless he be sure that his teacher reveals those verities infallibly . he proposes the objection of a simplician , as he calls him , that he builds his faith and religion , not on any preachers talk but on the objective verities revealed in scripture : to which he answers , that unless he first learn of some infallible oracle , the sense of scripture in controverted places , he can never arrive to the depth of gods true meaning , or derive infallible faith from those objective revealed verities . he yet farther asserts , that every catechist , or preacher that hath a lawful mission , and is sent by the infallible church to teach christs sacred doctrine , if he preach that doctrine which christ and his church approves of , is then under that notion of a member conjoyned with an infallible church , infallible in his teaching ▪ and thence concludes , that infallibility doth accompany both teachers and hearers : and from denying this infallibility , he saith , follows an utter ruine of christian religion yea and of scripture too . and afterwards he goes about to prove that no man can have any divine faith without infallibility in the proponent ; for , faith he , as long as the infallibility of a revelation stands remote from me for want of an undoubted application made by an infallible proponent , it can no more transfuse certainty into faith , than fire at a great distance , warm . this is the sum of the principles of that metaphysical wit ; but sure a man must have his brains well confounded by school divinity and hard words , before he can have common sense little enough to think he understands them . but because i never loved to spend time in confuting a man , who thinks himself the wiser for speaking things , which neither he nor any one else can understand ; i rather chose in as short a way as i could , to put together such propositions , as might give an account of christian faith without all this iargon about infallibility . in order to this , i first laid down the principles wherein all parties are agreed ; and then such propositions as i supposed would sufficiently give an account of our faith , without any necessity of such an infallibility as he makes necessary for the foundation of it . but for our clearer proceeding in an argument of this importance , it will be necessary to state and fix the notion of infallibility before i come to particulars . for as it is used it seems to be a rare word for iugglers in divinity to play tricks with ; for sometimes they apply it to the object that is believed , and call that infallibly true ; sometimes to the subject capable of believing , and say persons ought to be infallibly certain that what they believe is infallibly true ; and sometimes to the means of conveying that infallible truth to the faculties of men , and these they say must be infallible , or else there can be no infallible certainty of any thing as infallbly true . but the subtilty of these things lies only in their obscurity ; and the school-man is spoiled when his talk is brought down out of the clouds to common sense : i will therefore trie to bring these things out of their terms to a plain meaning ; and surely we may speak and understand each other in these matters without this doubtful term of infallibility . for if it signifies any thing , we may make use of the thing it signif●es in stead of the word , and by applying the thing signified by it , to that which it is spoken of , we shall soon discern how justly it is attributed to it . infallibile is that which cannot be deceived ; now if no one will say , that a proposition cannot be deceived , it is absurd to say that it is infallibly true ; therefore the matters revealed considered as objective verities , as our schoolman speaks , are not capable of infallibility ; which cannot belong to the truth proposed , but to him that propounds or believes it . for to be deceived or not to be deceived , are proper only to persons ; and the impossibility of being deceived does in truth belong only to an infinitely perfect understanding ; for what ever understanding is imperfect , is of it self liable to errour and mistake . and yet an understanding liable to be deceived may not be deceived , and be sure it is not . the highest assurance of not being deceived , is from gods revealing any thing to men ; for we know it impossible that god should be deceived , or go about to deceive mankind in what he obliges them to believe as true . this then is granted , that whatever any person speaks immediately from god , he cannot be deceived in it ; but men may be deceived in thinking they speak from god when they do not . there is then no difficulty in the first , that what ever persons are inspired by god are infallible in what they speak ; but the main difficulty is about the assurance which god gives to men that they are inspired . two ways it may be conceived that men cannot be deceived in this matter . . if god inspires every particular person with the belief of this , and gives him such evidence thereof as cannot be false . . or if god shall inspire some persons in every age to assure the world , that those before them were inspired : but notwithstanding this , particular persons may be deceived , in believing those inspired who are not ; and to prevent this , nothing can be sufficient but divine revelation to every particular person that he hath appointed those infallible guides in his church , to assure men that he had at first setled his church by persons that were infallible ; but then , why might not such a particular revelation assure men as well immediately that christ and his holy apostles were infallible , as that the guides of the present church are infallible ? for it is unconceivable that persons should be more infallible in judging the inspiration of the present guides , than of the first founders of the church . and supposing men not inspired , they may be deceived in believing this infallibility of the present church , and if they may be deceived , how can their faith be infallible ? so that nothing can make the faith of particular persons infallible , but private inspiration which must resolve all faith into enthusiasm and immediate revelation . and nothing can be more absurd than to say , that there are infallible believers without infallible inspiration ; or that an infallible proponent can transfuse infallibility into faith , unless the infallibility of that proponent be first made known to the believer in such a way as he cannot be deceived in . for in matters of divine revelation , the main thing we are to enquire after , is the infallibility of those who delivered this doctrine to the world. and although the reason of believing what god saith , be his own infallibility , which is natural and essential to him ; yet the reason of my assenting to this or that doctrine , as coming from god , must be an assurance that god hath secured those persons from mistake whom he hath imployed to make known the doctrine to the world. those persons then whom god inspired , are the proponents of matters of faith to us : and if they give us sufficient reason to believe that they were inspired , we are bound to believe them , otherwise not . but to suppose that we cannot believe the first infallible proponents , unless there be such in every age , is to make more difficulties , and to answer none . for then all my belief of the infallibility of the first proponents , must depend on the evidence which the present guides of the church give of their infallibility , who yet cannot pretend to the same evidence which they had : and here is no difficulty answered , for we are certainly bound as much to enquire into the reason of our believing the present guides of the church infallible , as the apostles : and if men cannot be infallible in believing the apostles , unless there be other infallible proponents in every age , to assure them that the apostles were inspired , why must not the infallibility of these present proponents be likewise so attested as well as of the apostles ? and what undoubted application can be made of the churches infallibility , unless there be some other infallible proponent still to transfuse certainty into my belief of that , by vertue of which , i must believe all other matters of faith , which is the churches infallibility ? so that the last proponent must either be believed for himself without any further evidence , and then the shorter way would be to believe the first so , or else there will be an endless infallibility ; or at last all must be resolved into the enthusiasm of every particular person , if we do not rest satisfied with the rational evidence which those persons , who were inspired by god , did give to the world that they were sent by him : and then let the world judge whether christ and his apostles did not give stronger evidence that they were sent from god , than the pope or the guides of the present church do ? and if so , whether i● be possible for men to do greater disse●vice to christianity , than to suspend our belief of the inspiration of the founders of the christian church , on a thing , at least , far less evident than the thing to be believed by it is ? but in plain english , on a thing notoriously false ; and only the arrogant pretence of an usurping faction , which thinks it easier boldly to say that it cannot be deceived , than to defend it self against the just accusations both of deceiving , and being deceived . these things being premised , i now come to consider how far n. o. hath shewed the invalidity of the principles laid down by me , for the end for which i intended them . the design of them was to shew , that we may have sufficient certainty of our faith , without the infallibility of the roman church ; the answerer hath yielded some things and denied others . i shall therefore first lay down his concessions , and see of what force they are to the issue of this controversie , and then come fairly to debate the matters in difference between us . i. for his concessions . . he yields , that there is no necessity at all of infallibility under natural religion : which was implied in the second and third propositions which are granted by him . for in the second proposition i assert , that man being framed a rational creature capable of reflecting upon himself , may antecedently to any external revelation certainly know the being of god , and his dependence upon him ; else there could be no such thing as a law of nature , or any principles of natutural religion : which , he saith , may be granted . all supernatural and external revelation , must suppose the truth of natural religion ; for unless we be antecedently certain that there is a god , and that we are capable of knowing him , it is impossible to be certain , that god hath revealed his will to us by any supernatural means . let this be granted , saith he . from whence it follows that we have sufficient certainty of the principles of natural religion , without any such thing as infallibility . . he yields , that reason is to be judge concerning divine revelation ; which appears by the next proposition . nothing ought to be admitted for divine revelation , which overthrows the certainty of those principles which must be antecedently supposed to all divine revelation : for that were to overthrow the means whereby we are to judge concerning the truth of any divine revelation . of which , he saith , let this also be granted . . he yields , that the will of god may be sufficiently declared to men by writing , for he grants the tenth proposition , which is this . if the will of god cannot be sufficiently declared to men by writing , it must either be , because no writing can be intelligible enough for that end , or that it can never be known to be written by men infallibly assisted ; the former is repugnant to common sense , for words are equally capable of being understood , spoken or written ; the latter overthrows the possibility of the scriptures being known to be the word of god. this , saith he , is granted . . he yields , that the written will of god doth contain all things simply necessary to salvation . for in his consideration of the . proposition , these are his words : mean while as touching the perfection of holy scriptures , catholicks now , as the holy fathers anciently , do grant that they contain all points , which are simply necessary to be of all persons believed for attaining salvation . . he yields , that no person is infallibly certain of or in his faith , because the proponent thereof is infallible , unless he also certainly know , or have infallible evidence that he is infallible ; only he adds , that for begetting an infallible assent to the thing proposed , it is sufficient if we have an infallible evidence either of the thing proposed , or of the proponent only . which is all i desire as to this matter . but he quarrels with me for saying , proposition . it is necessary therefore in order to an infallible assent , that every particular person be infallibly assisted , in judging of the matters proposed to be believed : because , saith he , it is not necessary to have an infallible evidence of the truth of the things proposed , i. e. from the internal principles that prove or demonstrate them ; but it is enough that he have an infallible or sufficiently certain evidence only of the infallibility of the external proponent ▪ where there are two things to be taken notice of . . that by the matters proposed to be believed , he would seem to understand me only of the things that are to be believed by vertue of any proponent supposed infallible ; whereas i meant it of all such things to which an infallible assent is required , and chiefly of that by which we are to believe the things revealed ; as for instance , that the church is infallible , is in the first place to be believed upon their principles , and either an infallible assent is required to this or not ; if not , then infallibility is not necessary to faith ; if it be , then this infallible assent must be built on an infallibility antecedent to that of the church ; and then my consequence necessarily follows , that the ground on which a necessity of some external infallible proponent is asserted , must rather make every particular person infallible , if no divine faith can be without an infallible assent , and so renders any other infallibility useless . . that he explains infallible evidence by that which is sufficiently certain , which is meer shuffling : for he knows well enough that we contend for sufficiently certain evidence as much as they ; our only question is about infallibility , whether that be necessary or no ? if sufficiently certain evidence will serve for the churches infallibility , why may it not for the scriptures , or any matters of faith contained therein ? if they mean no more by infallibility but sufficient certainty , why do they make so great a noise about it , as though there could be no faith and we no christians without infallibility ? when we all say that the matters of faith have sufficient certainty , nay the highest which such things are capable of . is infallible faith come to be sufficiently certain only ? for all that i know an infallible pope may by such another explication become like one of us . . he yields , that a right and saving faith may be without any infallible assurance concerning the churches infallibility . which , he saith , is abundantly declared by catholick writers . i only desire to know , why a like right and saving faith may not be had concerning the scriptures , without their churches infallibility ? for from hence it follows , that an infallible assent is not requisite to saving faith ; directly contrary to my former adversary e. w. for one saith , it is necessary to faith , and the other , that it is not . but above all , how will he ever answer this to mr. i. s. who hath written a whole book purposely against this principle , as impious and atheistical ? methinks this way of defending the main foundation of their faith by principles so directly contradicting one another looks a little scandalously , and brings an odd suspition upon their cause , as if it were very hard to be made good , when our adversaries cannot agree by which of two quite contrary principles it was best be maintained . . he yields , that the utmost assurance a man can have of the churches infallibility , is only moral ; but to make it up , he calls it a moral infallibility ; which , how strangely soever it sounds , yet his meaning is good ; for it is such an infallibility , as is not infallibility . hath the dispute been thus long among us , whether infallibility be necessary or no to faith , and now at last one comes and tells us , yes surely , a moral infallibility is necessary . i have heard of a ho● dispute between two gentlemen about transubstantiation , very earnest they were on both sides ; at last another falls into their company and asked them what it was they were about ; they told him transubstantiation : very well , said he , but i pray tell me what you mean by it ; one said it was standing at the eucharist , and the other kneeling . much such another explication is this here of infallibility , only this is somewhat worse , for it is joyning two words together which destroy each other ; for if it be only moral certainty , it is not infallible ; if it be infallible , it cannot be barely moral . i expect to hear shortly of an accidental transubstantiation , a co-ordinate supremacy , as well as a moral infallibility . but we are to suppose that by infallibility he means no more than certainty , because he explains it by the certainty of universal tradition : this were well enough , if in the precedent page he had not said , that a particular person may be infallible in the assent he gives to some matter proposed , viz. to this , that the church is infallible ; i would fain understand what this infallible assent is grounded upon , and if the evidence be only sufficiently or morally infallible , which are his own terms , how the assent which is built upon it , comes to be more than so . it is very pleasant to observe how mr. cressey , and some other late writers of their church are perplexed about this word infallibility , as if they had a wolf by the ears , they cannot tell how to hold it , and they are afraid to let it go . and very loth is is our n. o. to part with the sound of infallibility , although his own concessions perfectly overthrow it , as will yet further appear by this last , viz. . that moral certainty is a sufficient foundation for faith. this will appear by my . proposition , which is this : the nature of certainty doth receive several names either according to the nature of the proof , or the degrees of the assent . thus moral certainty may be so called , either as it is opposed to mathematical evidence , but implying a firm assent upon the highest evidence that moral things can receive : or as it is opposed to a higher degree of certainty in the same kind , so moral certainty implies only greater probabilities of one side than the other . in the former sense we assert the certainty of christian faith to be moral , but not only in the latter . to which he saith , this principle is granted , if importing only that christians have or may have a sufficiently certain and infallible evidence of the truth of their christianity . whereby it is plain that though he useth the term infallible , yet he means no more than i do , or else he ought not to have brought that as an explication of my principle which is contrary to it , as in this controversie , moral certainty is opposed to strict demonstration and infallibility . but if he by infallibility means only sufficient certainty , i shall be content for quietness sake , that he shall call it infallibility , if he pleases . and that he can mean no more by it , appears not only by what he hath said before , but by what he saith afterwards in these words . a natural or moral certainty ( though not such a one as cannot possibly be false , but which according to the laws of nature and the common manners and experience of men is not false ) is sufficient on which to ground such a faith as god requires of us ; in respect of that certainty which can be derived from humane sense or reason , and which serves for an introductive to the reliance of this our faith upon such revelation as is believed by us divine ; and which if divine , we know is not possibly fallible ; in respect of its relying on which revelation , an infallible object , and not for an infallible certainty as to the subject , it is that this our faith is denominated a divine faith. now this natural or moral certainty is thought sufficient for the first rational introductive and security of our faith , not only by the doctor in his . principle , but also by catholick divines in their discourses of the prudential motives . very well said , and i were a very disingenuous man , if i should not heartily thank him for so free a confession , by which , if i understand any thing , he very fairly gives up the cause of infallibility , as to the necessity of it in order to faith : as will easily appear by the managing of it , so far as i have been concerned in it . it is evident to any one that will cast an eye on the controversie of infallibility , between the arch-bishop and his adversaries , that it was raised on this account , because those of the church of rome asserted , that the infallible testimony of the church was necessary in order to the believing the scriptures to be the word of god : and so much is endeavoured to be defended by him who pretended to answer my lord of canterburies book , who goes upon this principle , that this is to be believed with a divine faith , and a divine faith must be built upon an infallible testimony ; the falsehood of which , i at large shewed in the discourse of the resolution of faith. since the publishing whereof , the metaphysical gentleman before mentioned , pretended to answer that part of it which concerns infallibility and moral certainty . some of his assertions i have laid down already , as contrary to this of n. o. as may be ; for he not only asserts the necessity of infallibility for a foundation of christian faith , but spends some chapters in rambling talk against moral certainty . the title of one of which is , faith only morally certain is no faith. i desire n. o. and e. w. to agree better before they goe abo●● to confute me ; and to what purpose should● trouble my self with answering a man who● principles the more ingenuous of their ow● party disown , as well as we ? for not on●● n. o. here makes moral certainty a sufficien● ground for divine faith , but the guide ● controversies , another of my adversaries , a●serts the same , when he saith , and indee● from what is said formerly , that a divine faith may be had by those who have had 〈◊〉 extrinsecal even morally infallible ( i see now from whom n. o. learnt these terms ) motive thereof , it follows that divine faith doth not resolve into such motives either as the formal cause , or always as the applicative introductive , or condition of this divine faith . and a little after , that it is not necessary that such faith always should have an external rationally infallible ground or motive thereto ( whether church authority or any other ) on his part that so believes . by these concessions it appears that the cause of infallibility , as far as it concerns the necessity of it in order to faith , is clearly given up by these persons ; and if others be still of another mind among them , i leave them to dispute it among themselves . thus far then we are agreed ; i now come to consider where the controversie still remains , and why the rest of my principles may not pass as well as these . in order to this , i must , by taking a view of his several exceptions and answers , draw together a scheme of those principles which he sets up in opposition to mine ; and if i do not very much mistake , they may be reduced to these three . . that god hath given an infallible assistance to the guides of the church in all ages of it , for the direction of those who live in it . . that without this infallible assistance there can be no certainty of the sense of scripture . . that all the arguments which overthrow the churches infallibility ; do destroy the churches authority . these , as far as i can perceive , contain the whole force of his considerations ; and in the examination of these the remaining discourse must be spent ; in which i shall have occasion to take notice of whatever is material in his book . . the main controversie is , whether god hath given an infallible assistance to the guides of the church in all ages , for the conduct of those who live in it ? for if he hath not , my adversary cannot deny , but the principles laid down by me must hold . for in case there be no infallibility in the guides of the church , every one must be left to the use of his own understanding , proceeding in the best manner , to find out what the will of god is in order to salvation . we do not now dispute concerning the best helps for a person to make use of in a matter of this nature ; but the q●estion is , whether a man ought to resign his own judgement to that of the church , which pretends to be infallible as to all necessaries for salvation ? or supposing no such infallibility , whether a person using his faculties in the best manner about the sense of scriptures , with the helps of divine grace , may not have sufficient certainty thereby what things are required of him in order to happiness ? hereby i exclude nothing that may tend to the right use of a mans understanding in these things , whether it be the direction of pastors ; the decrees of councils , the sense of the primitive church , or the care , industry , and sincerity of the enquirer ; but supposing all these , whether by not believing the guides of the church to be infallible , the foundation of this persons faith can be nothing else but a trembling quicks and , as n. o. speaks in his preface ; only from the supposing an errability in the guides of gods church . and a little after he lays down that as his fundamental principle , that the only certain way not to be misled , will be the submitting our internal assent and belief to church authority ; or as he elsewhere speaks , to the infallible guideship of church gover●ors . here then two questions necessarily arise : . whether there can be no certainty of faith without this infallibility ? . what certainty there is of this infallibility ? . whether there can be no certainty of faith without infallibility in the guides of the church , and submitting our internal assent and belief to them ? for the clearing of this we must consider what things are agreed upon between us , that by them we may proceed to the resolution of this question . . it is i suppose agreed , that every man hath in him a faculty of discerning of truth and falshood . . that this faculty must be used at least in the choice of infallible guide ; for otherwise a man must be abused with every pretence of infallibility , and george fox may as well be followed as the pope of rome ; and to what purpose are all prudential motives and arguments for infallibility , if a man must not judge whether they be good or no , i. e. sufficient to prove the thing ? . that god is not wanting in necessaries to the salvation of mankind . . that the books of scripture received on both sides do contain in them the will of god in order to salvation . . that all things simply necessary to salvation are contained therein , which is a concession mentioned before . these things being supposed , the question now is , whether a person not relying on the infallibility of a church , may not be certain of those things which are contained in those books in order to salvation ? for of those ou● present enquiry is , and not about the sense of the more difficult and controverted places ; and if we can make it appear that men may be certain as to matters of salvation without infallibility , let them prove ( if they can ) the necessity of infallibility for things which are not necessary to salvation . but of the sense of scripture in those things afterwards ; i now enquire into the certainty men may attain to , of the necessaries to salvation in scripture : and concerning this , i laid down this proposition . although we cannot argue against any particular way of revelation from the necessary attributes of god , yet such a way as writing being made choice of by him , we may justly say , that it is repugnant to the nature of the design and the wisdom and goodness of god to give infallible assistance to persons in writing his will for the benefit of mankind , if those writings may not be understood by all persons who sincerely endeavour to know the meaning of them in all such things as are necessary for their salvation . this principle , he saith , is unsound ; which , if he can prove , i may have more reason to question it than i yet have . and i assure him i expect no mean proofs to shake my belief of a principle of so great importance to the christian religion . for it being granted by him , that all things simply necessary to salvation , are contained in the books of scripture , i desire to know whether things simply necessary ought not to be delivered with greater plainness than things which are not so ? whether god appointing the evangelists and apostles to write these things , did not intend that they should be so expressed as they might most easily be understood ? whether our saviours own sermons vere capable of being understood by those who heard them , without some infallible interpreter ? whether the evangelists did not faithfully deliver our saviours doctrine ? if they did , how that comes to be obscure now , which was plain then ? so that either christ himself must be charged with not speaking the will of god plainly , or the evangelists cannot be charged with not expressing it so . there are no other books in the world that i know of , that need an infallible interpreter : and we can tell certainly enough what any other religion requires , supposing it to be written in the same way that the christian is : is it not possible for a man to be certain what the law of moses required of the people of israel , by reading the books of that law , without some infallible guides ▪ do the ten commandments need an infallible comment ? or can we have now no certainty of the meaning of the levitical law , because there is no high-priest or sanhedrin to explain it ? and if it be possible to understand the necessaries of that dark dispensation in comparison with the gospel , are o●r eyes now blinded with too much light ? is not christianity therefore highly recommended to us in the new testament , because of the clearness and perspicuity wherein the doctrines and precepts thereof are delivered ? and yet after all this , cannot the most necessary parts of it , he understood by those who sincerely endeavour to understand them ? by which sincere endeavour we are so far from excluding any useful helps , that we always suppose them . the s●m then of what he is to confute , is this ▪ that although the apostles and evangelists did deliver the mind of god to the world in their writings , in order to the salvation of mankind , although they were inspired by an infinite wisdom for this end , although all things simply necessary to salvation are contained in their writings , although a person useth his sincere endeavour by all moral helps , and the divine grace assisting him to find out in these writings the things necessary to salvation , yet after all he cannot certainly understand the meaning of them . which to me appears so absurd and monstrous a doctrine , so contrary to the honour of the scriptures and the design of christianity , that if i had a mind to disparage it , i would begin with this and end with transubstantiation . for in earnest sir , did not our saviour speak intelligibly in matte●s of so great importance to the salvation of mankind ? did he not declare all that was necessary for that end , in his many admirable discourses ? did not the evangelists record his words and actions in writing , and that as one of them saith expresly , that we might believe that iesus is the christ , the son of god , and that believing we might have life through his name ? and after all this , cannot we understand so much as the common necessaries to salvation by the greatest and most sincere endeavour for that end ? but it is time now to consider his exceptions against this principle : which are these . . that god may reveal his mind so in scripture as that in many things it may be clear only to some persons more versed in the scriptures , and in the churches traditional sense of them , and more assisted from above according to their imployment ; which persons he hath appointed to instruct the rest . but what is all this to our purpose ? our question is not about may be 's , and possibilities of things , but it is taken for granted on both sides , that god hath revealed his mind in writing ; therefore he need not make the supposition of no writings at all , as he doth afterwards : the question is , whether these writings being allowed for divine revelations of the will of god , he hath expressed the necessaries to salvation clearly therein or not ? that god may delivers his mind obscurely in many things , is no question ; nor that he may inspire persons to unfold his mind , where it is obscure ; but our question is , whether or no these writings being acknowledged to contain the will of god , it be agreeable with the nature of the design and the wisdom and goodness of god for such writings not to be capable of being understood in all things necessary to salvation , by those who sincerely endeavour to understand them ? but when i had expresly said , things necessary for salvation , why doth he avoid that which the dispute was about , and only say many things in stead of it ? i do not doubt but there are many difficult places of scripture , as there must be in any ancient writings penned in an idiom so very different from ours . but i never yet saw one difficulty removed by the pretended infallible guides of the church ; all the help we have had , hath been from meer fallible men of excellent skill in languages , history , and chronology , and of a clear understanding ; and we should be very unthankful not to acknowledge the great helps we have had from them , for understanding the difficult places of scripture : but for the infallible guides , they have dealt by the obscurities of scripture , as the priest and the levi●e in our saviours parable , did by the wounded man , they have fairly passed them by , and taken no care of them . if these guides did believe themselves infallible , they have made the least use of their talent that ever men did ; they have laid it up in a napkin , and buried it in the earth , for nothing of it ever appeared above ground . how could they have obliged the world more , ( nay , it had been necessary to have done it for the use of their gift ) than to have given an infallible sense of all controverted places ; and then there had been but one dispute left , whether they were infallible or not ? but now , supposing we believe their infallibility , we are still as far to seek , for the meaning of many difficult places . and supposing god had once bestowed this gift of infallibility upon the guides of the church , he might most justly deprive them of it , because of the no use they have made of it ; and we might have great reason to believe so from our saviours words , to him that hath shall be given , but from him that hath not , shall be taken away even that which he hath . so that not making use of this talent of infallibility , gives us just reason to question , whether god continues it , supposing he had once given it to the guides of the church , since the apostles days : which i see no reason to believe . . his next exception is from a saying of dr. fields , who , he saith , seems to advance a contrary principle in his preface to his books of the church . but o the mischief of common-place-books ! which make men write what they find , and not what is to their purpose . for after all , dr. field doth but seem to advance another principle in his opinion , and doth not so much as seem to do it in mine . for that learned and judicious writer sets himself purposely to disprove the infallibility of the church in the beginning of his fourth book ; and is it probable that any man of common understanding would assert that in his preface , which he had disproved in his book ? it is a known distinction in the church of rome of the church virtual , representative and essential ; by the two first are meant popes and councils ; and of these two , dr. field saith , that they may erre in matters of greatest consequence ; yet these are n. o's . infallible guides , whose conduct he supposeth men obliged to follow , and to yield their internal assent to . concerning the essential church , he saith , that it either comprehends all the faithful that are and have been since christ appeared in the flesh ; and then , he saith , it is absolutely free from all errour and ignorance of divine things , that are to be known by revelations ; or as it comprehends only all those believers that are and have been since the apostles times ; and in this sense , he saith , the whole church may be ignorant in sundry things , which are not necessary to salvation ; but he thinks it impossible for the whole church to erre in anything of this nature . but in things that cannot be clearly deduced from the rule of faith , and word of divine and heavenly truth , we think it possible , that all that have written of such things might erre and be deceived . but if the church be taken only as it comprehends the believers that now are , and presently live in the world , he saith , it is certain and agreed upon , that in things necessary to be known and believed expresly and distinctly , it never is ignorant , much less doth erre . yea in things that are not absolutely necessary to be known and believed expresly and distinctly , we constantly believe that this church can never erre , nor doubt pertinaciously , but that there shall ever be some found ready to embrace the truth , if it be manifested to them , and such as shall not wholly neglect the search and enquiry after it , as times and means give leave . but if we mean by a church , any particular church , he determines , that particular men and churches may erre damnably , because notwithstanding others may worship god aright ; but that the whole church at one time cannot so erre , for that then the church should cease utterly for a time , and so not be catholick being not at all times ; and christ should sometimes be without a church ; yet , that errors not prejudicing the salvation of them that erre may be found in the church , that is at one time in the world , we make no doubt ; only the symbolical and catholick which is and was being wholly free from error . which several expressions amount to no more than this , that there will be always some true christians in the world ; but what is this to infallible teachers and guides , in a church that pretends to be catholick against all the sense and reason in the world ? and is it now imaginable after all this , that dr. field should make any particular church infallible ? no , all that he means in his preface , is this , that among all the societies of men , persons who have not leisure or capacity to examine particular controversies , ought diligently to search which is the true church , and having done this , to embrace her communion , follow her directions , and rest in her judgment , i.e. suppose a man by that very book of dr. fields should be convinced that the church of rome is a very corrupt and tyrannical church , and the church of england is a sound and good church ( which was the design of his writing it , ) he being thus far satisfied , ought to embrace the communion of this church , and so follow her directions , and rest in her judgment , so , as not to forsake her communion for any cavils that are raised about particular controversies of which he is not a capable judge . and doth this make the church of england infallible ? if we say that a man being first satisfied of the skill and integrity of a lawyer , ought to follow his directions , and rest in his judgment ; doth this make that lawyer infallible ? so we say here , the resting in the judgment of a church , of whose integrity we have assurance before-hand , implies only the supposition of so much honesty and skill in a church , as may over-rule the judgments of persons who either have not leisure or capacity to understand particular controversies which require skill in languages , search into the fathers and later writers on both sides . if we say , that unlearned persons ought in such things to trust the learned , whose integrity they have no ground to suspect , this doth not certainly make the more learned infallible ? but we may rest in the judgment of those whom we have no reason to suspect , though we believe them not to be infallible : and it was the former dr. field meant , and by no means any infallibility , unless he plainly contradict himself . . he excepts , that this brings in an inerrability of every particular christian in all points necessary , if such christians will , that is , ●f only they shall sincerely endeavour to know the meaning of them . the force of this argument will be easily discerned if we put another parallel to it , viz. that they who assert from scripture the assistance of divine grace to the sincere endeavours of men , do make all men imp●ccable if they will ; as well as those who assert , that god will not be wanting in necessaries to salvation to those who sincerely endeavour to know them , make all such men so far infallible , if they will. if any one thing be plain in scripture , the goodness of god is ; and who can believe that , and yet think that he will suffer those who sincerely endeavour to know what is necessary to their salvation , not to understand it ? but besides , how often doth the scripture promise a greater degree of knowledge to the meek and humble , to the diligent and industrious ; to those that ask and seek wisdom from him , to those that do the will of god , to whom our saviour hath expresly promised , that they shall know of his doctrine , whether it be of god or no ? and if this be the inerrability he means , he sees what grounds we have to assert it . but we understand not by it , that such persons cannot erre in their judgments about what things are necessary , and what not ; nor that they cannot erre in other things which are not so necessary to salvation ; but that gods goodness is so great , and his promises so plain , and his word so clear in necessary things , that no one who sincerely endeavours to know them , shall ever miss of salvation . and if such an infallibility will satisfie them , we do not deny it to popes themselves , or other guides of the church , on condition they do not think themselves infallible beyond these bounds ; for they are only the meek and humble whom god hath promised to teach his way , and not such who will be infallible whether god will or no. his other exceptions from this principle destroying church-authority , from the parity of reason for church governors , and the controverted places of scripture shall be considered afterwards . . i now come to examine what certainty there is for this infallibility ? here i shall lay down some principles of common reason , by which we may better understand the force of his arguments . . that the proof ought always to be more evident than the thing that is to be proved by it . for otherwise it is of no advantage to the proof of it , if it have but the same degree of evidence ; but is a great prejudice to it , if it have less : so that if the proofs of infallibility be equally obscure and difficult with those things which are to be believed by virtue of it , this infallibility is of no use ; but if they be less evident , the pretence of it is both very ridiculous and prejudicial to the christian faith. . the greater concernment any law is of , and the greater danger in mistaking the meaning of it , the more plain and distinct ought the terms of that law to be . as a law about the succession of the crown ought to be framed with all the clearness and distinctness imaginable , because the peace and security of a nation depends upon it . so in case christ hath appointed any successor in the government of his church , or entailed infallibility upon the guides of it : this being a matter of such infinite concernment to the whole church ; it is most unreasonable to conceive that whatever other parts of his will were obscure , those which relate to the matter of succession and infallibility , should be so ; but rather so plain , that no one can miss of understanding them , because the weight of all the rest depends upon these two ; and it is so horrible a presumption in any to pretend to them , in case they have no right to them , and the danger so great in relying upon them if there be no such thing . . a law of such universal concernment to the faith and peace of the christian church being supposed , the practice of the best and purest● ages of the church must be supposed agreeable thereto , i. e. that in all matters of difference they did constantly own these infallible judges , by appealing to them for a final issue of all debates , and resting satisfied with their decisions . but if on the contrary , when great differences have happened in and nearest the first times , no such authority was made use of , but other ways put in practice to make an end of them ; if when it was pretended , it was slighted and rejected ; nay , if the persons pretending it , were proceeded against and condemned , and this not by a popular faction , but by just and legal authority ; we may thence conclude that such judges have arrogated that power to themselves , which was not given them by the supreme legislator . these things being premised , i come to his particular arguments , which lie scattered●up and down ; but to give them the greater strength , i shall bring them nearer together . and they are drawn either from scripture , or tradition , or parity of reason . . from scripture . and in truth the only satisfactory argument in a matter of so great concernment to the christian church , ought only to be drawn from thence , unless we will suppose the scripture defective in the most important things . for this being pleaded as a thing necessary for the peace of the church by some , and for the faith of christians by others ; so much greater the necessity of it is , so much clearer ought the evidence of it to be in scripture , supposing that to be intended to reveal the will of god to us in matters of the greatest necessity . but it cannot be denied by our adversaries , that the places produced by them for a constant infallibility in the guides of the church , do not necessarily prove it ; because they are very capable of being understood , as to the infallibility only of the apostles in the first age and foundation of the christian church : is it then to be imagined that if christ had intended such an infallibility as the foundation of the faith and peace of his church , he would not have delivered his mind more plainly and clearly than he is pretended to do in this matter ? how easily might all the contentions of the christian world have been prevented , if christ had caused it to be delivered in terms so clear , as the nature of the thing doth require ? if he had said , i do promise my infallible spirit to the guides of the church in all ages , to give the true sense of scripture in all controversies which shall arise among christians , and i expect an obedience suitably to all their determinations : or , more particularly , i appoint the bishops of rome in all ages for my successors in the government of the church , who shall be the standing and infallible iudges of all controversies among christians ; this dispute might never have happened among us . for we assure them that we account the peace of the church so valuable a thing , and obedience to christs commands so necessary a duty , that we are well enough inclined to embrace the doctrine of infallibility , if we could see any ground in scripture for it . but we cannot make persons infallible by believing them to be so , but we may easily make our selves fools , as others have done , by believing it without reason . the controversie then is not , whether infallibility in the guides of the church be a desirable thing or not , for so we say impeccability is too ; but the question is , whether there be any such thing promised by christ to the guides of his church , and whether all christians on that account are bound to yield their internal assent , as well as external obedience to all their decrees ? which we deny , and desire to see it clearly proved from his words who alone could grant this infallibility . for if an infallible judge be therefore necessary , because the scripture is not sufficiently clear for ending of controversies , and that god hath actually constituted such a judge , cannot be proved but by scripture , surely we have all the reason in the world to expect that the scripture should be abundantly , and beyond all contradiction clear in this point , to make amends for its obscurity in the rest : for if this point be not clearly proved , we are never the nearer an end of controversies : because the business stops at the very head , and they may beg their hearts out , before we shall ever be so good natured as to grant it them without proof . and they who have been so bold ( shall i say ? or blasphemous ) as to charge our lord with want of discretion , in case he have not provided his church with such an infallible judge , do certainly render him much more obnoxious to this imputation , in supposing him to have constituted such a judge , if he have no where plainly declared that he hath done so . and let them , if they can , produce one clear text of scripture to this purpose , which by the unanimous consent of the fathers is so interpreted ; and which , to the common sense of mankind , is more sufficiently clear for the ending this controversie , than the scripture is said by them to be in other necessary points of faith. and till they have done this , according to their own way of arguing , we have as much reason to deny their infallibility , as they have to demand our assent to it , upon the presumed obscurity and insufficiency of scripture . when i came thus prepared to find what the considerator would produce in a matter of such consequence , i soon discerned how little mind he had to insist upon any proofs of that , which is his only engine to overthrow my principles . for after the most diligent search i could make , the only argument from scripture i found produced , was from the old testament , ( where i confess i least looked for it ) but however , this is thought so considerable as to be twice produced ; and yet is so unlucky , that if i understand any thing of the force of it , it p●oves the judges in westminster hall to be infallible , rather than the pope , or any guide of the christian church . for the force of the argument lies in gods appointing iudges under the law , according to whose sentence matters were to be determined , upon penalty of death in case of disobedience . but what then ? doth this imply infallibility ? no , that he dares not stand to , but absolute obedience , ; which we are ready to yield when we see the like absolute command for ecclesiastical judges of controversies of religion , as there was among the iews for their supreme iudges in matters of law. but of this place i have already spoken at large , and shewed how impertinently it is produced for infallibility in the book , he often referrs to , and might , if he had thought fit , have answered what is there said before he had urged it again , without any new strength added to it . but since he produces no other proof for it , i must consider how he goes about to weaken mine against it . two things i insisted upon against such a pretence of infallibility , viz. that such a pretence implying an infallible assistance of the spirit of god , there were but two ways of proving it , either , . by such miracles as the apostles wrought to attest their infallibility , or . by those scriptures from whence this infallibility is derived . concerning both these i laid down two propositions . . concerning the proof by miracles . the proposition was this . there can be no more intollerable usurpation on the faith of christians than for any person or society of men to pretend to an assistance as infallible in what they propose , as was in christ or his apostles , without giving an equal degree of evidence that they are so assisted as christ and his apostles did , viz. by miracles as great , publick , and convincing as theirs were ; by which i mean such as are wrought by those very persons who challenge this infallibility , and with a design for the conviction of those who do not believe it . to this he answers : . that i am equally obliged to produce miracles for the churches infallibility in fundamentals , which i had asserted in the defence of the archbishop . but this admits a very easie answer ; for when i speak of infallibility in fundamentals , i there declare that i mean no more by it , than that there shall be always a number of true christians in the world. and what necessity is there now of miracles for men to believe , since they receive the doctrine of the gospel upon those miracles by which it was at first attested . neither is there any need of miracles to shew that any number of men are not guilty of an actual errour in what they believe , supposing they declare to believe only on the account of that divine revelation which is owned by christians ; for in this case the trial of doctrine is to be by scripture . but in case any persons challenge an infallibility to themselves antecedently to the belief of scriptures , and by vertue of which , they say , men must believe the scriptures , then i say such persons are equally bound to prove their infallibility by miracles as the apostles were . . not resting in this , he proceeds to another answer , the sum of which is , that the infallibility of the church not being so large or so high as the apostles , but consisting only in the infallible delivery of the same doctrine , there is no necessity of miracles in the present church . to this i answer , that the doctrine of the gospel may be said to be new two ways ; . in respect of the matter contained in it , and so it was new only when it was first revealed . . in respect of the person who is to believe it : so it is new in every age to those who are first brought to believe it . now the apostles had their infallibility attested by miracles , not barely with a respect to the revelation of new matter , for then none would have needed miracles but christ himself , or the apostles that made the first sermons ; for afterwards the matter was not new , but the necessity of miracles was to give a sufficient motive to believe , to all those to whom the gospel was proposed ; and therefore miracles are said to be a a sign to unbelievers . for by these , unbelievers were convinced that there was sufficient ground for receiving the doctrine of the gospel on the authority of those who delivered it ; god himself bearing them witness with divers miracles and gifts of the holy ghost . suppose then , any of the apostles after their first preaching continued only to inculcate the same doctrine for the conversion of more unbelievers ; in this case the evidence of miracles was the reason of relying on the authority of those persons for the truth of the doctrine delivered by them . from whence it follows , that where the christian faith is to be received on the authority of any persons in any age , those persons ought to confirm that authority by miracles , as the apostles did . for without this , there can be no such authority whereon to rely , antecedently to the embracing the christian faith. now , this is the case of the church of rome they pretend not to deliver any doctrine wholly new , but what was one way or another delivered by christ and his apostles ; ( although we therein charge them with fraud and falshood ) but yielding this , yet they contend that no man can have sufficient ground for believing the word of god , but from their churches infallibility ; in this case it is plain that they make their churches infallibility to be as much the reason of persons believing , as the infallibility of the apostles in their time was ; and therefore i say , they ought to prove this infallibility in the same way , and by miracles , as great , publick , and convincing , as the apostles did . . yet he is very loath to let go the miracles of their church , done in later times as well as formerly . it would be too large a task in this place to examine the miracles of the roman church , ( that may be better done on another occasion , ) all that i have here to say is , that all the miracles pretended among them , signifie nothing to our present purpose , unless those miracles give evidence of the authority and infallibility of those by whom they were done ; and they would do well to shew , where ever in scripture god did bestow a gift of miracles upon any but for this end : and what reason there is that god should alter the method and course of his providence , in a matter of so great concernment to the faith of mankind . such miracles as were wrought by christ and his apostles we defie all other religions in the world to produce any like them to confirm their doctrine ; but such as the church of rome pretends , scarce any religion in the world but hath pretended to the same . and for his most credible histories he vouches for them , i hope he doth not mean the church history written by s. c. nor any other such legends among them ; if he doth , i assure him they have a very easie faith that think them credible . and if all miracles that are so called , by those among whom they are done , be an argument , as he saith , of the security of salvation in the communion and faith of that church wherein they are done , i hope he will be so just , to allow the same to the arrians , novatians , donatists , and others , who all pretend to miracles as well as the church of rome , as any one that is versed in church-history may easily see . but of this more at large elsewhere . . concerning the proof of infallibility from scripture , i said down this proposition . nothing can be more absurd , than to pretend the necessity of such an infallible commission and assistance to assure us of the truth of those writings , and to interpret them ; and at the same time to prove that commission from those writings from which we are told , nothing can be certainly deduced , such an assistance not being supposed ; or to pretend that infallibility in a body of men , is not as liable to doubts and disputes , as in those books from whence only they derive their infallibility . he grants the former part of this , if by it be intended to prove such commission only , or in the first place from these writings . but , he saith , a christians faith may begin either at the infallible authority of scriptures , or of the church : it seems then , there may be sufficient ground for a christians faith , as to the scriptures , without believing any thing of the churches infallibility ; and for this we have reason to thank him , whatever they of his own church think of it . for , by this concession we may believe the scriptures authority , without ever believing a word of the churches infallibility ; and let them afterwards prove it from scripture if they can . nay he goes yet farther , and saith , that the infallibility of scriptures as well as the church may be proved from its own testimony : but he first supposes , that the infallibility of one of these , be first learnt from tradition . and therefore in the remainder of his discourse on this subject , he shews how the infallibility of the church may be proved from tradition not shewing at all how the infallibility of the church can be proved from scripture . scripture being thus deserted , as to the proof of the churches infallibility , i must pursue him to his other hold of tradition . the method of his discourse is this ; that the infallibility of the guides of the church was antecedent to the scriptures ; that the apostles did not lose their infallibility by committing what they preached to writing ; that their successors were to have this infallibility preserved in them , if there had been no writings ; and cannot be imagined to have lost it because of them , because these give testimony to it ; that this infallibility is preserved by tradition descending from age to age , as we say the canon of scripture is delivered to us ; and lastly , that the governours of the church always held and reputed themselves infallible , appears by their anathematizing dissenters . in this discourse there are some things supposed without reason , and other things asserted without proof . the foundation of all this discourse proceeds upon the supposition that the same infallibility which was in the apostles , must be continued in their successors through all ages of the church , for which i see not the least shadow of reason produced . yes , saith he , supposing there had been no writings , and no infallibility , christian religion would have been no rational and well grounded , no stable and certain religion . two things in answer to this , i desire to be informed of : . what he thinks of the religion of the patriarchs , who received their religion by tradition , without any such infallibility ? . what he thinks of those christians who receive the scriptures or churches infallibility by vertue of common and universal tradition ( which is certainly the ground of the one , and supposed by him to be of the other ) whether the faith of such persons be rational and well-grounded , stable , and certain , or not ; if it be , then there is no such necessity of infallibility for that purpose ; if it be not , then he doth hereby declare that the faith of christians is irrational and ill-grounded . for whatsoever is received on the account of tradition antecedent to the belief of infallibility , cannot be received on the account of it ; but the belief of either scriptures or churches infallibility , must be first received by vertue of a principle antecedent to the scriptures or churches infallibility , viz. tradition . by this it appears , that his very way of proving , destroys the thing he would prove by it : for if the tradition may be a sufficient ground of faith , how comes infallibility to be necessary ? but if this infallibility be not necessary without the scriptures , much less certainly is it now , since it is acknowledged on both sides , that the apostles were infallible in their writings , and that therein the will of god is contained as to all things simply necessary to salvation . but these successors of the apostles were not deprived of their infallibility by the apostles writings ; no certainly , for none can be deprived of what they never had ; but where are the reasons all this while , to shew that there was the same necessity of infallibility in the apostles successors , as was in them ? two i find rather intimated than insisted upon . . that the church would otherwise have failed , if there had been neither writings nor infallibility ; but if this argument hold for any thing , it is for the necessity of the scriptures , and not of infallibility ; for we see god did furnish the church with one , and left no footsteps of the other . we do not dispute how far the church might have been preserved without the scriptures , we find it hath been hard enough to preserve it pure with them : but we always acknowledge the infinite wisdom and goodness of god , that hath not left us in matters of faith and salvation to the determinations of men liable to be corrupted by interest and ambition , but hath appointed men inspired by himself to set down whatever is necessary for us to believe and practise . and upon these writings we fix our faith , as on a firm and unmovable rock ; and on the veracity of god therein contained and expressed , we build all our hopes of a blessed eternity . and one great benefit more we have by these divine books , that by them we can so easily discover the fraud and imposture of the confident pretenders to infallibility . which is the true reason why the patrons of the church of romes infallibility have so little kindness for the scriptures , and take all occasions to disparage them , by insinuating that they are good for nothing but to breed heresies in the heads of the people ; upon pretence of which danger , they hide this candle under a bushel , lest it should give too much light to them that are in the house , and discover some things which it is more convenient to keep in the dark . . he saith , the infallibility of the apostles successors , receives a second evidence from the testimony thereof found also in these writings . i confess i have seen nothing like the first evidence yet , to which this should be a second ; but if by the first be meant that which i mentioned before , this is a proper second for it . neither of them , i dare say , intend any mischief to any body ; both first and second are forced into the field , where they stand only for dumb shews , and wonder what they are brought for . but whereabouts i pray doth this second testimony stand ? what are its weapons ? i hope not dic ecclesiae , nor dabo tibi claves , nor any of the old rusty armour which our modern combatants begin to be ashamed to appear with in the field . and to speak truth , n. o. seems to understand his art better than to meddle with such heavy and antique armour , which every one hath been foiled with that hath undertaken to combat with them ; only it seems a little for the credit of their cause to point to such a magazine , which in the days of ignorance and credulity , the romantick age of the church , was in great request . but we must now buckle our selves to a new manner of combat , which is from the tradition of the church , and that of the very same nature with what we have for the canon of scripture . this i confess is bright shining armour , and may do great service if it will hold ; but that must be judged upon trial , which i now set my self to . but we shall find that no weapons formed against truth can prosper : and it hath been long observed of rome that it could never endure a close siege . the question now is , whether they of the roman church have the same universal tradition for the infallibility of the guides of it , w ch we have for the canon of scripture ? w ch he asserts . it is i suppose agreed on both sides , that the tradition on w ch we receive and believe the scriptures to be the word of god was universal as to all ages and times of the church ; that from the beginning all disputes in religion among true christians , were built upon the supposition of it ; that in no age any persons were allowed to be good christians who made doubt of it ; that every age doth afford plentiful testimonies of the belief of it . this is that universal tradition we receive the scriptures upon ; and let any thing like this be produced for the infallibility of the guides of their church , and we yield up the cause to them . can any fairer terms than these be desired ? but we expect proofs , and so i perceive we may do to the worlds end . i commend the ingenuity of n. o. for endeavouring to escape out of the circle any way ; but i believe they think themselves as wise , who still dance within it , knowing the impossibility of doing any good in this other way . the only argument he insists upon is so weak , that i wonder he had not considered how often it had been answered by their own writers . for it is certain that provincial councils as well as general , have anathematized dissenters , and pronounced them hereticks , which is his only argument to prove this tradition of the churches infallibility ; and they had no way to answer it , but by saying , this doth not imply their infallibility . and if it doth not in the case of provincial councils ; why should he think it doth in the case of general ? for the anathema's of provincial councils did not relate to the acceptation of their decrees , either by the pope , or the whole church , as n. o. supposes , but did proceed upon their own assurance of the truth of what they decreed ; otherwise their anathema's would have been only conditional , and not absolute and peremptory as we see they were . but i need give no other answer to this argument than in the words of dr. field whom n. o. appealed to before , viz. that councils denounce anathema not because they think every one that disobeyeth the decree of the council to be accursed , but because they are perswaded in particular , that this is the eternal truth of god which they propose , therefore they accurse them that obstinately shall resist , as st. paul willeth every christian man to anathematize an angel coming from heaven , if he shall teach him any other doctrine than he hath already learned : yet is not every particular christian free from possibility of erring . if the argument then were good from anathematizing dissenters , and calling them hereticks , every particular person must by it be proved infallible ; who are bound to anathematize even angels from heaven in case of delivering any other doctrine from the gospel ; so that this , which is his only argument in stead of proving an universal tradition would prove an universal infallibility . let the reader now judge in his conscience , whether here be any thing offered in the way of tradition for the churches infallibility , that may bear the least proportion with the tradition on which we receive the scriptures ? and yet if this had been true , it had been almost impossible that any one age should have passed without remarkable testimonies of it . for no age of the church hath been so happy as not to have occasion for an infallible judge of controversies , if any such had been appointed by christ : and therefore it cannot be imagined , but that christians must in all controversies arising have appealed to him , and stood to his determinations ; which must have been as well known in the practice of the church , as judges trying causes in westminster hall. but i challenge him to produce any one age since the apostles times to this day , wherein the infallibility of a standing judge of controversies appointed by christ , hath been received by as universal a consent as the authority of scripture hath been in that very age. nay , i except not that age which hath been since the council of trent ; for the scriptures of the new testament have been received of all sides , but the infallibility of a standing judge is utterly denied by one side , and vehemently disputed between several parties on the other . some making only the essential church infallible , others the representative in councils , others again the virtual , viz. the pope . and supposing any infallible judge necessary ; it stands to reason it should be rather in one than in a multitude , and rather in a constant succession of bishops in one see , than in an uncertain number who cannot be convened together as often as the necessities of the church may require . but this is so far from being received as an universal tradition in that very age wherein we live , that onely one busie party in the roman church do maintain it , many others eagerly opposing it , and all the princes and states in christendom do in their actions , if not in words , deny it . and is not this now an universal tradition fit to be matched with that of the scriptures ? i had once thought to have brought testimonies o●t of every age of the christian church manifestly disproving any such tradition of infallibility ; and that not only of private persons when there were no councils , but from the most solemn acts of councils , and the confession of their own writers ; but that would swell this answer to too great a bulk , and is not needful where so very little is offered for the proof of it . and yet i shall be ready to do it , when any thing more important requires it . i now return to his exceptions against the latter part of the former proposition , viz. that infallibility in a body of men , is as liable to doubts and disputes , as in those books from whence only they derive their infallibility . the plain meaning of which is , that it is a foolish thing to make use of a medium as uncertain as the thing which is to be proved by it ; and therefore if the infallibility of the the church be as liable to doubts and disputes as that of the scriptures , it is against all just laws of reasoning to make use of the churches infallibility to prove the scriptures by . and to this no answer can be proper , but either by saying that there is no absurdity in such a way of proving ; or else that the infallibility of the church is more certain and evident than that of the scriptures . which i should be glad to see undertaken by any man who pretends to sense ; which n. o. doth too much to meddle with it ; and therefore fairly shuffles it off , and turns my words quite to another meaning , as though they had been spoken of the doubtful sense of the decrees of councils , which although elsewhere i had sufficient reason to speak of , yet that was not pertinent to this place . but this was a way to escape by saying something , though not at all to the purpose ; and yet he gives no sufficient answer to that sense he puts upon my words , by bringing a commentary upon them out of words used by me in another discourse . wherein i did at large argue against the infallibility of general councils , and after disproving it in general , i undertook to prove , that no man can have any certainty of faith as to the decrees of any council ; because men can have no certainty of faith that this was a general council , that it passed such decrees , that it proceeded lawfully in passing them , and that this is the certain meaning of them ; all which are necessary in order to the believing those decrees to be infallible with such a faith as they call divine . the words produced by him do speak of the doubtful sense and meaning of the decrees of councils , by which i shew that men can have no more certainty of the meaning of them , than of doubtful places of scripture , not as though i supposed it impossible for councils to give a clear decision in matters of controversie , so as that men might understand their meaning ; but i expresly mention such decrees as are purposely framed in general terms , and with ambiguous expressions pressions to give satisfaction to the several dissenting parties ; for which i instanced in some of the council of trent , whose ambiguity is most manifest by the disputes about their meaning raised by some who were present at the making of them . i am far enough from denying that a commentary may make a text plainer , or that a iudges sentence can be clearer than the law ; or that any council can , or hath decided any thing clearer than the thing that is in controversie ; which are his exceptions : but i say , if councils pretend to do more than the scriptures , and to decide controversies for the satisfaction of the world , and that men ought to have that certainty of faith by them , which they cannot have by the scriptures , they ought never to be liable to the same ambiguity and obscurity upon the account of which the scripture is rejected from being a certain rule of faith. for , as he saith well , infallibility alone ends not controversies , but clearness ; clearness in the point controverted : which if councils want , they are as unfit to end controversies as the scriptures can be pretended to be . but this is not the thing intended by me in this proposition and therefore it needs no farther answer ; for the only subject of that proposition , is the infallibility of the church , and not the clearness of the decrees of councils . but i cannot admire the ingenuity of this way of answering me , by putting another sense upon my words than they will bear ; and by drawing words out of another discourse , without shewing the purpose for which they are there used , and leaving out the most material passages which tended to the clearing of them . if n. o. thinks fit to oppose that whole discourse against the infallibility of general councils , and set down fairly the several arguments , i should be then too blame not to return a just answer : but i am not bound to follow him in such strange excursions , from the . proposition of this book to a single passage in a larger book , and from that back to another at a mighty distance in the same book ; which being dismembred from the body of the discourse , must needs lose much of their strength . yet with all the disadvantage he takes them ( which is such , that the best book in the world may be confuted in that manner ) he hath no great cause to glory in the execution he hath done upon them . in answer to my lord of canterburies adversary , who boasted of the unity of the roman church : because whatever the private opinions of men are , they are ready to submit their judgments to the censure and determination of the church , i had said , that this will hold as well or better for our unity as theirs , because all men are willing to submit their judgments to scripture , which is agreed on all sides to be infallible . against these words thus taken alone n. o. spends two or three pages ; which might have been spared , if he had but fairly expressed what immediately follows them in these words . if you say it cannot be known what scripture determines , but it may be easily what the church defines : it is easily answered , that the event shews it to be far otherwise , for how many disputes are there concerning the power of determining matters of faith ? to whom it belongs , in what way it must be managed , whether parties ought to be heard in matters of doctrine , what the meaning of the decrees are when they are made , which raise as many divisions as were before them ; as appears by the decrees of the council of trent , and the later of pope innocent relating to the five propositions ; so that upon the whole it appears setting aside force and fraud , which are excellent principles of christian unity , we are upon as fair terms of union as they are among themselves . i do not therefore say , that the church of rome hath no advantage at all in point of unity , but that all the advantage it hath , comes from force and fraud , and setting these aside , we are upon as good terms of union as they ; and we do not envy them the effects of tyranny and deceit . it is the union of christians we contend for , and not of slaves or fools ; we leave the turk and the pope to vie with each other in this kind of unity , ( although i believe the turk hath much the advantage in it ) and i freely yield to n. o. that they have a juster pretence to vnity without truth than we . which is agreeable to what he pleads for , that they are more united in opinion than we ; united in opinion , i say , true or false , saith he , here matters not ; we speak here of vnion not of truth . this and the following of tyranny , which we complain of , are the two fairest pleas for their vnion i ever met with . but this is not a place to examine the pretences to unity on both sides , that i have at large done in a whole chapter in the late book , and if n. o. had intended any thing to purpose against me on this subject , he ought much rather to have fallen on a just discourse than two such lame clauses as he makes these to be by his citation of them . and when he doth that , he may hear more of this subject ; in the mean time infallibility is our business . and therefore i proceed to the third argument made use of by n. o. for the proof of infallibility in the guides of the church , which is from parity of reason . because , i say , that it is repugnant to the nature of the design , and the wisdom and goodness of god to give infallible assurance to persons , in writing his will for the benefit of mankind , if those writings may not be understood by all persons who sincerely endeavour to know the meaning of them in all such things as are necessary to their salvation ; from hence he inferrs , that if every christian may become thus infallible in necessaries , from . a clear rule . . a due industry used ; . and a certainty that it is so used ; may not the church-governours still much rather be allowed infallible , and so retain still their infallible guideship ; and the people also , the more clear the rule of faith is proved to be , the more securely be referred to their direction ? and have we not all reason to presume that the chief guides of the church ( even a general council of them , or if it be but a major part of this council , 't is sufficient ) in their consults concerning a point necessary to salvation delivered in scripture , use at least so much endeavour ( for more needs not ) as a plain rustick doth , to understand the meaning of it , and also the like sincerity ? for what they define for others , they define for themselves also , and their salvation is as much concerned as any other mans is , in their mistakes . and next , why may not these governours upon such certainty of a sincere endeavour and clearness of the rule take upon them to define these points and enjoyn an assent to and belief of them to their subjects ; especially since it is affirmed that all those from whom they require such obedience , if they please to use a sincere endeavour may be certain thereof as well as they ? and are we not here again arrived at church-infallibility , if not from extraordinary divine assistance , only sincere endeavour being supposed ? and thus doe not his conditional infallibility of particular persons in necessaries , the condition being so easie , necessarily inferr a moral impossibility of the churches erring in them ; especially those necessaries being contracted to the apostles creed , as it is by some . to lay open the weakness of this discourse , which appears fair and plausible at first view , i shall give an account of these two things . . what infallibility i attribute to private persons . . how far the parity of reason will extend to the infallibility of the guides of the church . . as to the infallibility by me attributed to private persons ; no such thing can be inferred from my words ; and i wish n. o. would have kept to my own expressions , and not foisted in that term of infallibility , without which all his discourse would have betrayed its own weakness . for take the terms which i laid down , and apply them to the guides of the church , and see what a mighty infallibility springs from them . for if it be repugnant to the nature of the design , and to the wisdom and goodness of god to give infallible assurance to persons in writing his will for the benefit of mankind , if those writings may not be understood by all persons who sincerely endeavour to know the meaning of them in all such things as are necessary for their salvation , how doth it hence follow that the guides of the church must be infallible in teaching matters of faith ? if i had asserted that particular persons were infallible in determining what was true , and what not ; then i grant the argument would have much more held for those whose office it is to guide and direct others . but what he means by mens being infallible in necessaries , i do not well understand ; for it is capable of three several meanings : . that either men are infallible in judging of necessaries to salvation ; . or , that men are infallible in teaching others what art necessaries to salvation . or . that men are infallible in believing such things as are necessary to salvation , i. e. that such is the goodness of god , and the clearness of scriptures , that no man who sincerely desires to know what is necessary to salvation shall be deceived therein ; and what is this any more than to assert that god will not be wanting in necessaries to mankind ; and although i know no reason for using the term of infallibility thus applied , yet the thing it self i assert in that sense , but in neither of the other : and what now can be inferred from hence by a parity of reason , but that the guides of the church , supposing the same sincerity shall enjoy the same priviledge , which i know none ever denied them ; but what is this to their infallibility in teaching all matters of faith ? which is the only thing to be proved by him . if he can prove this as necessary for the salvation of mankind as the other is , then he would do something to his purpose , but not otherwise . so that all this discourse proceeds upon a very false way of reasoning from believing to teaching , and from necessaries to salvation , to all matters of faith , which the guides of the church shall propose to men . . but may we not inferr , that if god will not be wanting to particular persons in matters necessary to their salvation , much less will he be wanting to the guides of the church in all matters of faith ? no certainly , unless it be proved that their guidance is the only means whereby men can understand what is necessary to salvation ; which is utterly denied by us , god having otherwise provided for that , by giving so clear a rule in matters necessary , that no man who sincerely endeavours to know such things shall fail therein . but will not the same sincerity in the guides of the church , extend to their knowing and declaring all matters of faith ? this is a thing possible , and supposing god had entrusted them with the infallible delivery of all matters of faith , were not to be questioned ; but that is the thing still in dispute , and is not to be supposed , without proving it by plain evidence from those books which are agreed on both sides to contain the will of god. besides , that no man that is acquainted with the proceedings of the council of trent , will see reason to be over-confident of the sincerity of councils so palpably influenced by the court of rome as that was . but however is it not fit in these matters that particular persons should rather yield to the guidance of others , than to the conduct of their own reason ? which is n. o's . farther argument in this matter , viz. that a fallibility being supposed , it is more fitting to follow prudent and experienced , though fallible persons direction rather than our own . to this i answer in these following particulars . . that god hath entrusted every man with a faculty of discerning truth and falshood ; supposing that there were no persons in the world to direct or guide him . for without this there were no capacity in mankind to be instructed in matters of religion ; and it were to no purpose , to offer any thing to men to be believed , or to perswade them to embrace any religion . to make this plain , i will suppose a person come to years of understanding , not yet professing any particular religion to whom the several religions in the world are proposed by men perswaded of the truth of them , viz. the christian , the jewish , and the mahumetan : he hears the several arguments brought for each of them , and hath no greater opinion of the teachers of one than of another , i desire to know whether this person may not see so much of the truth and excellency of christian religion , above the rest as to choose that and reject all the rest . i hope no one will deny this ; now if a man does here upon his own judgment and reason choose the christian religion , so as firmly to believe it , then god hath given to men such a faculty of judging , that upon the proposal of truth and falshood , he may embrace the true religion and reject the false , and such a faith is acceptable and pleasing to god ; otherwise no man could embrace christianity at first upon good grounds . . this faculty is not taken away , nor men forbidden the exercise of it in the choice of their religion by any principle of the christian religion ; for our saviour himself appealed to the judgement of the persons he endeavored to convince ; he made use of many arguments to perswade them , he directed them in the way of finding out of truth , he reproved those who would not search into the things delivered to them . all which were to no purpose at all , if men were not to continue the exercise of their own judgements about these matters . accordingly we find the apostles appealing to the judgements of private and fallible persons concerning what they said to them , although themselves were infallible , and had the greatest authority over them ; we find them , not bidding the guides of the church p●ove all things and the people held fast that which they delivered them ; but commanding them indifferently to prove all things and hold fast that which is good , i. e. what upon examination they found to be so ; we find those commended , who searched the scriptures daily whether the things proposed to them were so or no. so that we see the christian religion d●th not forbid men the exercise of that faculty of judging , which god hath given to mankind . . the exercise of this faculty was not to cease as●oon as men had embraced the christian doctrine . for the precepts given by the apostles do belong to those who are already christians , and that concerning the matters proposed by their guides ; nay they are expressly commended to try and examin all pretences to infallibility and revelation upon this great reason because there should be many false pretenders to them . beloved believe not every spirit , but try the spirits whether they be of god , for many false prophets are gone out into the world . they are commanded not to believe any other gospel though apostles or an angel from heaven should preach it ; and how should they know whether it were another or the same if they were not to examin and compare them ? they are bid to contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints ; it might be a new faith for any thing they could know , if they were not competent judges of what was once delivered : they are frequently charged to beware of seducers and false guides , that should come in the name of christ and his apostles ; they are told , that there should come a falling away and departing from the faith ; and that the time will come when men will not endure sound doctrine , and shall turn away their ears from 〈◊〉 truth and believe fables ; that such shall come with all deceivableness of unrighteousness ; with powers and signs and lying wonders . to what end or purpose are all these things said , if men being once christians are no longer to exercise their own judgements , but deliver them up into the hands of their guides ? what is this , but to put them under a necessity of being deluded when their guides please ? and as our saviour saith , when the blind lead the blind both shall fall into the ditch . . the authority of guides in the church is not absolute and unlimited but confined within certain bounds . which if they transgress they are no longer to be followed . so st. paul saith , if we or an angel from heaven teach any other gospel let him be accursed , so that the apostles themselves though giving the greatest evidence of infallibility were no longer to be followed than they held to the gospel of christ. and they desired no more of their greatest disciples whom they had converted to the christian faith , than to be followers of them as they were of christ , they told them they had no dominion over their faith , although they were far more assisted with an infallible spirit , than any other guides of the church could pretend to be ever since . therefore no present guides , what ever names they go by , ought to usurp such an authority over the minds of men which the apostles themselves did not challenge ; although there were greater reason for men to yield up their minds wholly to their guidance . we are far from denying all reasonable and just authority to be given to the guides of the church ; but we say that their authority not being absolute is con●ined to some known rule ; and where there is a rule for them to proceed by , there is a rule for others to judge of their proceedings ; and consequently men must exercise their judgements about the matters they determin whether they be agreeable to that r●le or n●t . . where the rule by which the guides of the church are to proceed hath determined nothing , there we say the authority of the guides is to be submitted unto . for otherwise , there would be nothing le●t , wherein their authority could be shewn , and others pay obedience to them , on the account of it . therefore we plead for the churches authority in all matters of meer order and decency , in indifferent rites and ceremonies ; and think it an unreasonable thing to 〈◊〉 the govern●u●s of a christian society the priviledge of commanding in things which god hath n●t al● ready determined by his own law. we plead for the respect and reverence which is due to the lawful constituti●ns o● the church whereof we are members ; and 〈◊〉 the just authority of the guides it , in the exercise of that power which is committed to the governours of it ; as the successours of the apostles in their care of the christian church , although not in their infallibility . . we allow a very great authority to the guides of the catholick church in the best times of christianity ; and look upon the concurrent sense of antiquity as an excellent means to understand the mind of scripture in places otherwise doubtful and obscure . we prosess a great reverence to the ancient fathers of the church : but especially when assembled in free and general councils ; we reject the ancient heresies condemned in them ; which we the rather believe to be against the scripture , because so ancient , so wise and so great persons did deliver the contrary doctrine , not only to be the sense of the church in their own time but ever since the apostles . nay we reject nothing that can be proved by an universal tradition from the apostolical times downwards ; but we have so great an opinion of the wisdom and piety of those excellent guides of the church in the primitive times , that we see no reason to have those things forced upon us now , which we offer to prove to be contrary to their doctrine and practice . so that the controversy between us is not about the authority of the guides of the church , but whether the guides of the apostolical and primitive times ought not to have greater authority over us , than those of the present church in things wherein they contradict each other ? this is the true state of the controversy between us ; and all the clamours of rejecting the authority of church guides are vain and impertinent . but we profess to yield greater reverence and submission of mind to christ , and his apostles , than to any guides of the church ever since : we are sure they spake by an infallible spirit , and where they have determined matters of faith or practice , we look upon it as arrogance and presumption in any others to alter what they have declared . and for the ages since , we have a much g●eater esteem for those nea●est the apostolical times and so downwards , till ignorance , ambition , and private interests sway'd too much among those who were called the guides of the church . and that by the confession of those who were members of it at the same time ; which makes us not to wonder that such corruptions of doctrine and practice should then come in : but we do justly wonder at the sincerity of those who would not have them reformed and taken away . . in matters imposed upon us to believe or practise which are repugnant to plain commands of scripture , or the evidence offense , or the grounds of christian religion ; we assert that no authority of the present guides of a church , is to overrule our faith or practice . for there are some things so plain , that no man will be guided by anothers opinion in them ; if any philosopher did think his authority ought to overrule an ignorant mans opinion , in saying the snow which he saw to be white was not so ; i would fain know whether that man did better to believe his eyes or the prudent , experienc'd philosopher ? i am certain , if i destroy the evidence of sense i must overthrow the grounds of christian religion ; and i am as certain if i believe that not to be bread which my senses tell me is so , i must destroy the greatest evidence of sense ; and which is fitter for me , to reject that evidence which assures my christianity to me , or that authority which by its impositions on my faith overthrows the certainty of sense ? we do not say that we are to reject any doctrine delivered in scripture which concerns a being infinitely above our understanding , because we cannot comprehend all things contained in it ; but in matters lyable to sense and the proper objects of it , we must beg pardon if we prefer the grounds of our common christianity before a novel and monstrous figment , hatched in the times of ignorance and barbarism , foster'd by faction , and imposed by tyranny . we find no command so plain in scripture that we must believe the guides of the church in all they deliver , as there is that we must not worship images , that we must pray with understanding , that we must keep to our saviours institution of the lords supper ; but if any guides of a church pretend to an authority to evacuate the force of these laws , we do not so much reject their authority , as prefer gods above them . doth that man destroy the authority of parents , that refuses to obey them , when they command him to commit treason ? that is our case in this matter , supposing such guides of a church which otherwise we are bound to obey , if they require things contrary to a direct command of god , must we prefer their guidance before gods ? if they can prove us mistaken we yield , but till then the question is not , whether the guides of the church must be submitted to rather than our own reason ? but whether gods authority or theirs must be obeyed ? and i would gladly know whether there be not some points of faith , and some parts of our duty , so plain , that no church-authority determining the contrary ought to be obey'd ? . no absolute submission can be due to those guides of a church who have opposed and contradicted each other , and condemned one an●ther for errour and here●y . for then in case of absolute submission a man must yield his assent to contradictions ; and for the same reason that he is to be a catholick at one time , he must be a heretick at another . i hope the guides of the present church pretend to no more infallibility and authority than their predecessours in the same capacity with themselves have had ; and we say they have contradicted the sense of those before them in the matters in dispute between us . yet that is not the thing i now insist upon ; but that these guides of the church have declared each other to be fallible by condemning their opinions and practices ; and by that means have made it necessary for men to believe those not to be infallible , unless both parts of a contradiction may be infallibly true . suppose a man living in the times of the prevalency of arrianism , when almost all the guides of the church declared in favour of it , when several great councils opposed and contradicted that of nice , when pope liberius did subscribe the sirmian confession and communicated with the arrians , what advice would n. o. give such a one if he must not exercise his own judgement , and compare both the doctrines by the rule of scriptures ? must he follow the present guides even the pope himself ? then he must joyn with the the arrians . must he adhere to the nicene council ? but there were more numerous councils which condemned it . what remedy can be supposed in such a case , but that every person must search and examine the several doctrines , according to his best ability , and judge what is best for him to believe and practise ? no answer can be more absurd in this case than that which some give , that liberius only erred in his external profession of faith and not in the belief of it ; for we are now speaking of such as are to be guides to others , and on whose direction they are to rely , which must be something which may be known to them . supposing then , that liberius when he subscribed and joyned with the arrians , was a catholick in his heart this takes as much off from the authority of a guide , as errour would do . for who dare rely upon him who acts against his conscience and believes one way and does another ? would any in the church of rome think it fit to submit themselves to the direction of such persons , whom they were assured , did not believe one word of what they professed ; but joyned in communion with that church only for some temporal ends ? but in truth liberius went so far , that hilary denounces an anathema against him , and all that joyned with him . neither was this the only case of this nature to be supposed ; for the councils of ephesus and chalcedon proving ineffectual for the suppression of the nestorian and eutychian heresies , and rather greater disturbances arising in the church after the later of these , because the writings of theodorus of mopsuestia and theodoret against cyril , and of ibas to maris the p●rsian not being therein condemned which were suppo●ed to favour the nesto●ian heresy , the nestorians increasing their faction under the authority of those writings , and the eutychians making that their plea for rejecting that council because it seemed to favour nestorianism ; the emperour justinian by the perswasion of theodorus of caesarea resolves to have those three chapters ( as they were called ) condemned , hoping by this means to perswade the eutychian faction to accept the council of chalcedon and thereby to settle peace in the church , which was then miserably rent and divided . to this end by the consent of the four eastern patriarchs , he publishes an edict wherein he condemns the three chapters , and anathematizes those who should defend them ; to this edict the guides of the eastern church subscribed ; but vigilius then pope , ( although victor ●ununensis , a writer of that age saith , that he had given it under his hand to theodora the empress , that if he might be made pope he would condemn the three chapters ) yet now being by violent hands thrust into the chair , he changes his mind , and declares against the edict ; and threatens excommunication to those who approved it as being contrary to the catholick faith , established in the council of chalcedon ; and accordingly stephanus his legat withdrew from the communion of the patriarch of constantinople . upon this , the emperour sends for vigilius to constantinople , who being come thither excommunicates the patriarch of constantinople and all who condemned the three chapters , or joyned with those who condemned them ; and the patriarch of constantinople again excommunicates him ; but after . or . months time , these excommunications were taken off : and pope vigilius after that publishes a decree wherein the three chapters were condemned by him , with a salvo to the authority of the council of chalcedon . which made the bishops of africa , illyricum and dalmatia to fall off from him , and rusticus and seb●stianus t●o deacons of his own church ; whom the pope excommunicated for so doing . yet the emperou● himself was not satisfied with that sa●vo , and the pope not yielding without it , a general council was called at constantin●p●e to put an end to this controversy ; to which the pope being solemnly invited refused to come , the council however proceeds in the examination of the three chapters ; during their session , vigilius publishes his apostolical decree or constitution , to the whole catholick church , with the assistance of . bishops of italy , africa , and illyricum , and three roman deacons ; wherein the pope defends the three chapters , and defines in the conclusion of it , that it should be lawful for none to write or teach any thing about these matters , contrary to his present definition ; or to move any farther question about them . notwithstanding which definition of the popes , the council proceeds to the condemning the three chapters , and to the anathematizing those who did not condemn them . that this is the true matter of fact , i am content to appeal to the acts of the council , the edict of iustinian , the popes own decree , or the writers of that age , or the most learned persons of the roman church , such as ●aronius , petavius and petrus de marca , who have all given an account of this controversy . i now desire to know , what a person in that time should do who was bound to yield an internal assent to the guides of the church ? must he believe the pope ? he not only contradicts the council but himself too ; for it now appears by a greek epistle first published by petrus de marcâ out of the king of frances library that vigilius being banished by iustinian did afterwards retract his own decree so solemnly made , and confirmed the council . would not a man now be in a pretty condition that were bound to believe one in all he said that so often contradicted himself ? must he believe the council ? what then becomes of the popes infallibility ? when they were so far from receiving the popes definition ( though done in such a manner , in which bellarmin saith , the pope cannot err , viz. when he teaches the whole church ; ) that they reject his decree and determin the quite contrary . i know but one way of evading this , ( which is that commonly insisted on by those of the roman church , ) viz. that all this was not a controversy about 〈◊〉 but persons . so indeed some of the 〈◊〉 ours of vigilius said , when they endeavo●red to extenuate the matter as much as they could finding that the bishops of africa , and many in italy broke off from the communion of the roman church on the account of this quarrel ; but i desire any one in this matter to look to their judgement who were con●erned in this quarrel ; and if men are bo●nd to believe their guides ▪ they ought to believe them when they tell them what is a matter of faith . and from the beginning of this controversy it was accounted a matter of faith , not only by the emperour , but by the pope , by the council , and by the bishops who opposed the council ; and must we trust them in other things and not in this ? besides , the very proceedings of the council manifest it according to be●larmins own rules ; for saith he , we then know a thing to be matter of faith , when the council declares it to be so , or them to be hereticks who hold the contrary ; or , which is the most common , when they denounce anat●ema , and exclude from the church , those who hold otherwise ; all which agree to this , as will appear by the last collation of that council . and pope vigilius in the greek epistle now published in the tomes of the councils , wherein he approves the th council , not only condemns the three chapters as contrary to saith , but anathematizes all those who should defend them and like an infallible judge very solemnly recants his former apostolical decree , though delivered by him upon great deliberation , an● with an intention to teach the whole church . i wonder who there could be in that age ; that believed the pope to be an infallible guide ? not the eastern bishops ; who excommunicated him , and decreed directly contrary to him ; not the western , for they likewise excommunicated him , and not only forsook his communion , but that of the roman church : but did he believe himself infallible , when he so often changed his mind , and contradicted himself in cathedra ? if he did , he was without doubt a brave man , and did as much as man can do . this controversy was scarce at an end , ( for the bishops of istria continued in their separation from the roman church for . years , w ch was till the time of honorius a. d. . ) when another was started , which gives us yet a more ample discovery of the more than fallibility of the guides of the church in that age , when a pope was condemned for a heretick by a general council ; in which case , i would fain know whether of them was infallible ? and to which of the guides of the church a man owed his internal assent , and external obedience ? this being an instance of so high a nature , that the truth of it being supposed , the pretence of absolute authority and infallibility in the guides of the roman church must fall to the ground , no wonder , that all imaginable arts have been used by those of the church of rome to take away the force of it ; among whom pighius , baronius , bellarmin , petavius , and petrus de marcâ have laboured hardest in acquitting honorius , but have proceeded in different ways ; and the two last are content the pope should be condemned for simplilicity and negligence , the better to excuse him from heresy ; but one would think these two were as contrary to the office of a trusty guide , as heresy to one that pretends to be infallible . but the better to understand the force of this instance , i shall give a brief account of the matter of fact , as it is agreed on all sides ; and the representing the divisions among the guides of the church at that time , will plainly shew how unreasonable it had been , to have required absolute submission to such who so vehemently contradicted each other . we are therefore to understand , that the late council at constantinople being found unsuccessful , for bringing the eutychians and their off-spring , to a submission to the council of chalcedon , another expedient was found out for that end , viz. that acknowledging two natures in christ they should agree in owning that there was but one will and operation in him after the union of both natures : because will and operation were supposed to flow from the person and not barely from the nature ; and the asserting two wills would imply two contrary principles in christ which were not to be supposed . this expedient was first proposed to heraclius the emperour by athanasius the patriarch of the iacobites , or paulus the s●verian and approved by sergius patriarch of constantinople , and by cyrus of alexandria , and theodorus bishop of pharan near aegypt . cyrus proceeded so far in it as by that means to reconcile the theodosiani , a sort of eutychians in alexandria , to the church , of which he gives an account to sergius of constantinople and sends him the anathema's which he published , among which the th . was against those who asserted , more than one operation in christ. sergius approves what cyrus had done ; but sophronius a learned monk , coming to alexandria vehemently opposed cyrus in this business ; but cyrus persisting he makes his address to sergius at constantantinople , and tells him of the dangerous heresy that was broaching under the pretence of union ; after some heats sergius yielded , that nothing should be farther said of either side . but sophronius being made bishop of ierusalem , he publishes an encyclical epistle wherein he asserts two operations and anathematizes those who held the contrary and were for the union ; and writes to honorius then pope , giving him an account of this new heresy of the monothelites ; the same year sergius writes to him likewise of all transactions that had hitherto been in this matter , and desires to know his judgement in such an affair , wherein the peace of the church was so much concerned . honorius writes a very solemn letter to sergius , wherein he condemns the contentious humour of sophronius , and makes as good a confession of his faith as he could , in which he expresly asserts that there was but one will in christ and agrees with sergius that there should be no more disputing about one or two operations in christ. accordingly heraclius by the advice of sergius publishes his ecthesis or declaration to the same purpose , which was approved by a synod under sergius ; but opposed by iohn . bishop of rome , yet still maintained at constinople not only by sergius , but by pyrrhus , and paulus his successours , who were both excommunicated by theodorus succeeding iohn ; after him pope martin calls a council , wherein he condemns all the eastern bishops who favoured this new heresy , and the two edicts of silence published by heraclius and constans : but was for his pains sent for to constantinople and there dyed . these contentions daily increasing , after the death of constans , constantinus pogonatus resolves to try all ways for the peace of the church ; and therefore calls a general council at constantinople a. d. . wher● the heresy of the monothelites was condemned ; and the writings of sergius , cyrus , theodorus and honorius in this matter , as repugnant to the doctrine of the apostles , and decrees of councils and the judgement of the fathers ; and agreeable to the false doctrine of hereticks and destructive to souls : and not content meerly to condemn their doctrine , they further proceed to anathamatize , and expunge out of the church the names of sergius , cyrus , pyrrhus , petrus , paulus , and theodorus : and after these , honorius , as agreeing in all things with sergius and confirming his wicked doctrines . here we are now come to the main point ; we see a pope delivering his judgement in a matter of faith concerning the wh●le church condemned for a heretick by a general council for so doing : either he was rightly condemned or not ; if rightly , what becomes of the infallibility of the pope when he pretends to teach the whole church in a matter of faith ? if not rightly , what becomes of the authority and sincerity of general councils , if a council so solemnly proceeding sho●ld condemn one for heresy , that not only did not err ; but if some may be believed , could not ? surely the council never thought of that , when they make no scruple of condemning him with the rest . what ? were pope agatho's legats there present , and could not inform the council of their presumption in judging the infallible see ? but no such thing was heard of in those times ; these latter ages have been only blessed with the knowledge of this unerring priviledge ; and happy had it been if all the records of former times had been burnt , that no instances might have been brought to overthrow it . yet wit and industry have not been wanting to bring poor honorius off , if it had been possible : the sum of all may be reduced to these . answers . . either that the acts of the council are falsifyed . or. . that the pope did not err in faith . or. . supposing he did err , it was only as a private person and not as head of the church . . that the acts of the council are falsifyed . this is a shrewed sign of a desperate cause , when against the consent of all ancient copies , both greek and latin , and the testimonies of several popes and councils afterwards , learned men are driven to so miserable a shift as this . the first i find , who made this answer was albertus pighius , and after him baronius and bellarmin have embraced it : but the more ingenuous men of their own church have been ashamed of it . melchior canus confesseth that not only this general council , but the seventh , and eighth under adrian , and that several other popes have confessed the truth of the thing ; and therefore he doth not see how pighius can vindicate honorius in this matter . franciscus torrensis ( afterwards better known by the name of turrianus ) a man highly applauded by baronius , hosius , lindanus , and others , writ a book of the . . and . synod , wherein he severely chastises pighius for his ill usage of this sixth council , and saith that in this matter he shewed more prejudice than judgement . for , whereas he suspects that the letter of honorius to sergius was not sufficiently examined and compared with the original , this betray 's saith turrianus , his great negligence in reading the acts of the council ; for in the latter end of the . session , it is expresly said that the authentick latin epistle of honorius was produced and compared by the bishop of porto ; besides how comes , saith he , the name of honorius to be no less than . times in the council ? and if all this had been by the greeks corrupting the copies , surely they would never have left that passage remaining concerning the corrupting the letters of mennas and vigilius : how comes leo . in his epistle to the emperour wherein he confirms the council , to anathematize honorius by name as guilty of heresy ; some indeed , saith he , may say this is counterfeit too , ( so do baronius and binius ) but they have nothing but their bare conjecture for it , no argument , or authority to confirm it . not only the greek writers , but the latin confess he was there condemned , so doth bede , saith he , so doth the pontifical book in the life of leo . and in the council under martin at rome the epistle of paulus to theodorus was read , wherein was mentioned the consent of honorius and sergius , and no one there opposed it . humbertus legat of leo . in his book against the greeks reckons honorius among the condemned monothelites . how came all the copies to be corrupted at once , as he farther urges , that there are none left sound to correct others by ? but that which he insists upon as the strongest argument of all is , from hadrian . who calling a council at rome for the condemning of photius , for anathematizing him , hath these remarkable words ; that no bishop of rome was anathematized before unless it were honorius who after his death was condemned for heresy , in which case alone it is lawful for inferiours to resist the●r superiours and to reject their doctrine ; although even there , they would never have done it if the bishop of the first see had not consented to it . a very considerable testimony ; not only to prove that honorius was comdemned for heresy , but that a pope may be guilty of it and be lawfully proceeded against for it , and that pope agatho did himself consent to the condemnation of honorius . notwithstanding these arguments of torrensis , baronius seeing that no other defence could be made , persists in the same accusation of forgery : and out of his own head frames an improbable story of the corrupting the copies of the council by theodorus , who being , saith he , anathematized as a monothelite , expunged his own name and put in that of honorius . a fiction so groundless and unreasonable , that nothing but meer despair could drive a man of common understanding to it . for there is not the least countenance for it in any author ; not the least colour of probability in the thing . for , that , all the copies of the council should be corrupted by one man , and neither the popes legats present at the council nor any else should take notice of it ; that , no succeeding popes should discover it , when they were concerned to vindicate honorius , but did own the thing to be true ; that theodorus then living should be condemned , before it was known whether he would submit to the council or not ; that , in the seventh and eighth councils this should not be at all suspected , but the condemning honorius expresly mentioned in both ; that , a man at that time deposed from his patriarchat of constantinople should be able to make such a razure and forgery in the copies of the councils ; that the emperour constantine who took so much care about the council should suffer such a thing to be done , do all make this figment of baronius so remote from any likelyhood , that baronius had need to have prayed as once a man upon the rack did , that he might tell probable lyes . but all the miscarriages of baronius in this matter are so fully laid open by one of their own church , that i need not insist any longer upon it ; to whom no answer hath been given but that substantial one of an index expurgatorius . bellarmin likes this way of answering the difficulty about honorius ; but the greatest strength he adds to baronius is only saying , without doubt it is so : and he grants that the seventh and eighth council did believe that pope honorius was condemned , but he saith they were deceived by the false acts of the council . but however they must believe that the pope might fall into heresy and be condemned by a council for it . yet bellarmim hath a fetch in this case beyond baronius viz. that either the acts of the council are falsified , or the council was guilty of intolerable impudence and errour in condemning honorius without reason ; for all the evidence they produce against him is from his epistles in which , saith he , nothing is contained , but what is sound and orthodox ; and this was the second way of defending honorius viz. that he did not err in faith at all ; and this way is taken by petavius , and others ; and was the way intended by petrus de marcâ , as appears by the account given of his design by baluzius ; which was first to prove by most evident arguments , that the acts of the council were never corrupted by the greeks , against the opinion before mentioned , and next that he was truly condemned by the council ; but not for heresy , but only for negligence and remissness . i think there needs nothing to shew the weakness of this , but barely reading the anathema of the council against him , which is not , for bare negligence but for confirming the wicked doctrines of sergius . and i am apt to think , that learned person saw the weakness of his design too much to go on with it : and baronius and bellarmin saw well enough , that whosoever was there anathematized it was upon the account of heresy that he was so ; and therefore baronius would make men believe the anathema belonged to theodorus and not to honorius . petavius thinks that honorius was deceived , but it was only by his simplicity and weakness , not understanding the controversy aright . so of old iohn . and maximus in his dispute with pyrrhus defended honorius , that he spake indeed of one will , but that , say they , was to be understood only of one will in his humane nature . which as combesis saith , is a more pious than solid defence of him ; and would as well serve , for sergius and cyrus , for heraclius his ecthesis and constans his type , as honorius his letter . for who ever will peruse them , will find they all proceed on the same argument , that there could not be two wills in christ but one must be contrary to the other . but that which i insist on is this , that it is certain the council approved by the pope did condemn him for heresy ; i desire therefore again to know whether he was rightly condemned or not ; if he was , then the pope must be guilty , and so not infallible ; if not , than the council must be , according to bellarmin , guilty of intolerable impudence and errour ; but in either case , there was no infallibility in the guides of the church which could require our internal assent to what they declared . but another defence is yet be●ind , which is , that though the pope did erre , yet it was in his private capacity , and not as head of the church . but when doth he act as head of the church if not , when he is consulted about important matters of faith , as this was then supposed to be , by two patriarchs ; and when the church was divided about them ; and there upon solemnly delivers his opinion ? this is then a meer subterfuge when men have nothing else to say ; i conclude therefore this instance of honorius with the ingenuous confession of mr. white , that things are so clear in the cause of honorius , that it is unworthy any grave divine to pawn his own honour and that of divinity too , in sowing together fig-leaves to palliate it . thus far i have shewn that those who pretend the most to be infallible guides of the church have opposed and condemned each other ; from whence it necessarily follows that no absolute submission is due to them , unless we can be obliged to believe contradictions . i might pursue this much further , and draw down the history of these contradictions to each other , through the following ages of the church ; wherein bishops have been against bishops , popes against popes , councils against councils , church against church ; especially after the breach between the eastern and greek churches , the greek and the roman , and the roman and those of the reformation ; but a man who is bound to rely only on the authority of his guides , must suppose them to be agreed ; and in case of difference among them , he must first choose his religion and by that his guide . . in the present divided state of the christian church , a man that would satisfy his own mind , must make use of his judgement in the choice of his church , and those guides he is to submit to . unless a man will say , that every one is bound to yield himself absolutely to the guidance of that church which he lives in whether eastern or greek , roman or protestant : which i suppose n. o. will never yield to , for a reason he knows because then no revolter from us could be justified . the true state then of the present case concerning the guides of the catholick church is this ; that it hath been now for many ages rent and torn into several distinct communions ; every one of which communions , hath particular guides over it , who pretend it to be the duty of men to live in subjection to them , because every church doth suppose it self to be in the right ; now the question proposed is , whether it be not fitter for me to submit to the guides of the catholick church , than to trust my own judgement ? i should make no scruple in all doubtful matters to resolve the affirmative , supposing that all the guides of the catholick church were agreed ; for i should think it arrogance and presumption in me to set up my own private opinion in opposition to the unanimous consent of all the guides of the catholick church , in such a case ; but that is far from ours , for we find the christian world divided into very different communions . the eastern churches are still as numerous , though not so prosperous as the roman ; the extent of the greek church alone is very great , but besides that , there are two other distinct churches in those parts who break off communion with the greek on the account of the councils of ephesus and chalcedon ; and the latter sort especially are very far spread in those parts , from armenia to the abyssine empire . in the time of iacobus de vitriaco , he saith these two churches were said to be more numerous than the greek and the latin ; and bellonius in these later times assures us , that the rites of the greek church do yet extend farther than the latin. what then makes these churches to be left out in our enquiries after the guides of the catholick church ? are these such inconsiderable parts of the body , that no regard is to be had to them ? i believe upon a strict examination , notwithstanding the reproach of heresy and schism , which those of the church of rome cast upon all but themselves , they will be sound much more sou●d parts of the catholick church , than the roman church is five great bodies or communions of christians are at this day in the world. . the most eastern christians , commonly called nestorians whether justly or no i shall not now examine , these are spread over the most eastern parts , and all live in subjection to the patriarch of muzal . . the iacobites , who are dispersed through mesopotamia , armenia , aegypt and the abyssine empire , and live under several patriarchs of their own . . the greek church , of which , besides the moscovites , are to be reckoned the melchites or suriani , and the georgians ; for though their language be different , they all agree in doctrine . . the roman church , taking under it all in the eastern parts who have submitted to the bishop of rome . . the protestant churches who have cast off subjection to the pope , and reformed the corruptions they charge the church of rome with . now of these . parts , . of them are all agreed , that there is no necessity of living in subjection to the guides of the roman church ; but they are all under their own proper guides , w ch they do not question will direct them in the right way to heaven . only those of the church of rome take upon themselves against all sense and reason to be the catholick church , and so exclude . parts of . out of a capacity of salvation ; and challenge infallibility as belonging to the guides of it alone . in this case , the arrogance of the pretence , the uncharitableness of rejecting so mighty a number of christians from the possibility of salvation , are sufficient to make any man not yield up his faith at the first demand ; but to consider a while , whether there be no other churches , or guides in those churches ? when he finds so many and those not inferiour to the roman church in any thing save only in pomp , pride , and uncharitableness ; and all opposing those arrogant pretences of authority and infallibility in it , what reason can he have , supposing that he is to submit to any guides , that he must submit only to those of the roman church ? why not as well to those of the eastern , greek , or protestant churches ? if any one goes about to assign a reason , by charging them with heresy , or schism , he unavoidably makes him judge of some of the greatest difficulties in religion , before he can submit to his infallible guides . he must know what nestorianism , eutychianism , monothelism mean , how they came to be heresies , whether the churches accused be justly charged with them ? he must understand all the subtilties of personalitie , subsistence , hypostatical union ; whether the union of two natures in christ be substantial , natural , or accidental ? whether it be enough to say that the divine and humane are one by inhabitation , or one by consent , or one by communion of operation , or one by communion of dignity and honour , all which the nestorians acknowledged , only denying the union of two natures to make one person ? supposing a man be come to this , he must then be satisfied that the present eastern christians do hold the doctrine of the old nesiorians , for they acknowledge christ to be perfect god and perfect man ; and that the b. virgin may be called the mother of the son of god , or the mother of the word , but they stick only at calling her the mother of god. then for the other churches which are charged with e●tychianism , he must understand , the exact difference between nature and person , for if there cannot be two natures without two persons , then either the nestorians were in the right who asserted two persons , or the eytychians who denyed two natures ; but this being granted , he must be satisfied , that , those called iacobites are eutychians , although they disown eutyches , and follow dioscorus , asserting that there were two natures before the union , and but one after ; and that dioscorus was rightly condemned in the council of chalce●on ; but supposing they are willing to leave the dispute of two natures , on condition , that the humane nature be only made the instrument of the divine in its operations , whether they are justly charged with heresy in so doing ? all these things a man must fully be satisfied in , before he can pronounce those churches guilty of heresy , and so not to be followe . but supposing those churches be rejected , why must the greek , which embraces all the councils which determined those subtle controversies ? here comes the mystery of the procession of the holy ghost to be examined , whether from the father alone or from the father and the son ? but supposing this to be yielded , why may he not joyn with those churches , which agree with the church of rome in all those points , as the protestant churches do ? here a man must examine the notes of the church , and enquire whether they be true notes , whether they agree only to the roman church ? and one of the greatest of those notes being consent with the primitive church , a man that would be well satisfied , must go through all the disputes between us and the church of rome , and by that time he is well settled in them , he will see little use , and less necessity of an infallible guide . so that a man who would satisfy himself in this divided state of the christian church , what particular communion he ought to embrace and what guides he must follow , must do all that , for the preventing of which an infallible guide is said to be necessary . i.e. he must not only exercise his own judgment in particular controversies , but must proceed according to it , and joyn with that church which upon enquiry he judges to be the best . . a prudent submission is due to the guides of that church , with which a person lives in communion . having shewed that absolute submission is not due , all that can be left is a submission within due bounds , which is that i call a prudent submission . and those bounds are these following . . not to submit to all those who challenge the authority of guides over us , though pretending to never so much power and infallibility . when n. o. would perswade me to submit my understanding to the infallible guides of the church ; he must think me a very easy man to yield , till i be satisfied first that god hath appointed such to be my guides , and in the next place that he hath promised infallibility to them . and that is the true state of the controversy between us and those of the church of rome in this matter ; they tell us we are bound to submit to the guides of the church ; we desire to know whom they mean by these guides ; and at last we understand them to be the bishop of rome and his clergy . here we demur , and own no authority the bishop of rome hath over us ; we assert that we have all the rights of a patriachal church within our selves , that we owe no account to the bishop of rome of what we believe or practise ; it is no article of our creed that god hath made him iudge either of the quick or the dead ; we have guides of our church among our selves , who have as clear a succession and as good a title as the bishops of any church in the world . to these , who are our lawful guides , we promise a due obedience , and are blame worthy if we give it not ; but for the bishop and clergy of rome , we own none to them , let them challenge it with never so much confidence , and arrogant pretences to infallibility . so that here is a contest of right in the case , antecedent to any duty of submission , which must be better proved than ever it hath yet been , before we can allow any dispute , how far we are to submit to the guides of the roman church ? . not to submit to those who are lawful guides in all things they may require . for our dispute is now about guides supposed to be fallible , and they being owned to be such may be supposed to require things to which we are bound not to yield . but the great difficulty now is , so to state these things , as to shew that we had reason not to submit to the guides of the roman church , and that those of the separation have no reason not to submit to the guides of our church . for that is the obvious objection in this case , that the same pretence which was used by our church against the church of rome , will serve to justify all the separations that have been or can be made from our church . so my adversary n. o. in his preface saith , that by the principles we hold , we excuse and justify all sects which have or shall separate from our church . in answer to which calumny i shall not fix upon the perswasion of conscience , for that may equally serve for all parties ; but upon a great difference in the very nature of the case , as will appear in these particulars . . we appeal to the doctrine and practice of the truly catholick church in the matters of difference between us and the church of rome : we are as ready as they to stand to the unanimous consent of fathers , and to vincentius lerinensis his rules , of antiquity , universality and consent ; we declare , let the things in dispute be proved to have been the practice of the christian church in all ages , we are ready to submit to them : but those who separate from the church of england make this their fundamental principle as to worship , ( wherein the difference lyes , ) that nothing is lawful in the worship of god , but what he hath expresly commanded ; we say all things are lawful which are not forbidden , and upon this single point stands the whole controversy of separation as to the constitution of our church . we challenge those that separate from us to produce one person for . years together , that held forms of prayer to be unlawful ; or the ceremonies which are used in our church : we defend the government of the church by bishops to be the most ancient and apostolical government , and that no persons can have sufficient reason to cast that off , which hath been so universally received in all ages since the apostles times : if there have been disputes among us about the nature of the difference between the two orders , and the necessity of it in order to the being of a church , such there have been in the church of rome too . here then lyes a very considerable difference , we appeal and are ready to stand to the judgement of the primitive church for interpreting the letter of scripture in any difference between us and the church of rome ; but those who separate from our church will allow nothing to be lawful but what hath an express command in scripture . . the guides of our church never challenged any infallibility to themselves ; which those of the church of rome do , and have done ever since the controversy began . which challenge of infallibility makes the breach irreconcileable while that pretence continues ; for there can be no other way but absolute submission where men still pretend to be infallible : it is to no purpose to propose terms of accommodation between those who contend for a reformation , and such who contend that they can never be deceived ; on the one side , errours are supposed ; and on the other , that it is impossible there should by any . until therefore this pretence be quitted , to talk of accomodation is folly , and to design it madness . if the church of rome will allow nothing to be amiss , how can she reform any thing ? and how can they allow any thing to be amiss , who believe they can never be deceived ? so that while this arrogant pretence of infallibility in the roman church continues , it is impossible there should be any reconciliation : but there is no such thing in the least pretended by our church , that declares in her articles , that general councils may err , and sometimes have erred even in things partaining to god ; and that all the proof of things to be believed is to be taken from holy scripture . so that as to the ground of faith there is no difference between our church and those who dissent from her ; and none of them charge our church with any errour in doctrine ; nor plead that as the reason of their separation . . the church of rome not only requires the belief of her errours but makes the belief of them necessary to salvation : which is plain by the often objected creed of pius . wherein the same necessity is expressed of believing the additional articles , which are proper to the roman church , as of the most fundamental articles of christian faith. and no man who reads that bull can discern the least difference therein made between the necessity of believing one and the other ; but that all together make up that faith , without which no man can be saved ; which though only required of some persons to make profession of , yet that profession is to be esteemed the faith of their church . but nothing of this nature can be objected against our church by dissenters , that excludes none from a possibility of salvation meerly because not in her communion , as the church of rome expresly doth : for it was not only boniface . who determined as solemnly as he could , that it was necessary to salvation to be in subjection to the bishop of rome ; but the council of lateran under leo . decreed the same thing . . the guides of the roman church pretend to as immediate authority of obliging the consciences of men , as christ or his apostles had ; but ours challenge no more than teaching men to do what christ had commanded them , and in other things , not commanded or forbidden , to give rules , which on the account of the general commands of scripture , they look on the members of our church as obliged to observe . so that the authority challenged in the roman church encroaches on the prerogative of christ , being of the same nature with his ; but that which our governours plead for , is only that which belongs to them as governours over a christian society . hence in the church of rome it is accounted as much a mortal sin to disobey their guides in the most indifferent things , as to disobey god in the plain commands of scripture : but that is not all they challenge to themselves , but a power likewise to dispence with the law 's of god , as in matter of marriages , and with the institution of christ as in communion in one kind ; and promise the same spiritual effects to their own institutions as to those of christ , as in the . sacraments they have added to the two of christ , and to other ceremonies in use among them . . setting aside these considerations , we dare appeal to the judgement of any person of what perswasion soever , whether the reasons we plead for separation from the church of rome be not in themselves far more considerable than those , which are pleaded by such , who separate from our church ? i.e. whether our churches imposing of three ceremonies declared to be indifferent by those who require them , can be thought by any men of common sense so great a burden to their consciences , as all the load of superstitious fopperies in the roman church ? whether praying by a prescribed form of words be as contrary to scripture , as praying in an unknown tongue ? whether there be no difference between kneeling at the sacrament upon protestants principles and the papists adoration of the h●st ? whether transubstantiation , image worship , invocation of saints , indulgences , purgatory , the popes supremacy , be not somewhat harder things to swallow , than the churches power to appoint matters of order and decency ? which particulars make the difference so apparent between the separation of our church from the church of rome , and that of dissenters from our church ; that it seems a very strange thing to me that this should be objected by our enemies on either side . and thus much may suffice to clear this point of submission to the guides of a church , of which i have the more largely discoursed , not for any difficulty objected by n. o. but because the thing it self did deserve to be more amply considered . but some other things relating to church-authority i must handle afterwards , and therefore now return to my adversary . the next thing to be debated is , what assurance we can have of the sense of scripture in doubtful places , if we allow no infallible guides to interpret them ? for that is the second main principle of n. o. that without this infallible assistance of the guides of the church , there can be no certainty of the sense of scripture . and it is chiefely o● this account that n. o. doth assert the necessity of infallible guides of the church : for as appears by his concessions he yields that the churches infallibility is not necessary to the foundation of faith ; for men ▪ faith , he saith , may begin at the infallible authority of scriptures ; but the main groun● on which he contends for the necessity of infallible guides is for the interpretation of controverted places and giving the true sense of scripture : for which he often pleads f●● necessity of an external infallible guide ▪ because god hath referred all in the dubio● sense of scripture to the direction of his ministers their spiritual guides , whom he 〈◊〉 over them to bring them in the vnity of the faith to a perfect man ; and that they may not be tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine , by the sleight of those who lye in wait to deceive . and without which guide st. peter observes , that in his time some persons ( for any thing we know diligent enough ) yet through want of learning , and the instability of adhering to their guides , being unlearned , saith he , and unstable , wrested some places of scripture , hard to be understood , to their own destruction . therefore these scriptures are also in some great and important points hard to be understood . and afterwards , he saith , that christians who have sufficient certainty of the truth of christianity , may be deficient in a right belief of several necessary articles of this christian faith , if destitute of that external infallible guide therein : without which he determines that men must fluctuate and totter , and vary one from another , whilst the scriptures are ambiguous in their sense and drawn with much art to several interests . the force of all which , comes to this , that we can arrive at no certainty of the sense of scripture in controverted places , without an external infallible guide : and therefore we are bound to submit to him . here are two things to be discussed . . what necessity there is for the salvation of persons , to have an infallible interpretation of controverted places of scripture ? . whether the denying such an infallible interpreter makes men uncapable of attaining any certain sense of doubtful places ? for if either it be not necessary that men should have an infallible interpretation ; or men may attain at a certain sense without it , then there can be no colour of an argument drawn from hence to prove the necessity of an infallible guide . . we are to enquire into the necessity o● such an infallible interpretation of doubtf●● places of scripture . there are but three grounds on which it can be thought necessary either that no man should mistake in the sense of scripture , or that the peace of the church cannot be preserved , or that mens souls cannot be saved without it . if i● were necessary on the first account , then every particular person must be infallible ; which being not pleaded for , we must consider the other two grounds of it . but here we are 〈◊〉 take notice , that the matter of our prese●● enquiry is concerning the clearness of scripture in order to the salvation of particul●● persons ; of which the proposition laid dow● by me expresly speaks . if therefore n. o. do any thing to overthrow this , he mu●● prove , not that there are doubtful and controverted places which no one denies , but that the sense of scripture is so doubtful and obscure in the things which are necessary to mens salvation , that persons without an infallible guide cannot know the meaning of them . if he prove not this , he doth not come near that which he ought to prove . we do not therefore deny , that there are places of great difficulty in the books of scripture ; but we assert , that the necessaries to salvation do not lye therein ; but those being plain and clear , men may be saved without knowing the other . as a seaman may safely direct his compass by the stars , although he cannot solve all the difficulties of astronomy . can any man in his senses imagine that christs coming into the world to dye for sinners , and the precepts of a holy life which he hath given , and the motives thereto from his second coming to judge the world , are not more plain than the apocalyphical visions , or the proofs for the church of romes infallibility ? if a person then by reading and considering those things which are plain , may do what christ requires for his salvation ; what necessity hath such a one to trouble himself about an infallible guide ? for either he may go to heaven without him , or not ? if he may , let them shew the necessity he is of to that end , which may be attained without him ; if not , then the things necessary to salvation cannot be known without him . let this be proved , and i will immediately yield the whole cause : and till it be proved my principles remain unshaken . but saith n. o. the scripture is obscure in some great and important points , because s. peter saith , that men unlearned and unstable , ( though it may be diligent enough ) wrested some places of scriptures hard to be understood to their own destruction . but doth s. peter say that the scriptures are so hard to be understood that sober and devout minds cannot learn therein , what is necessary to their salvation ? this had been indeed to their purpose : but it is far enough from st. peters . he only saith that in st. pauls epistles there are some difficult passages , which men that wanted judgement and constancy , and it may be diligence too , were ready to pervert to their own mischief . but if there be such difficulties , is there nothing plain and easy ? if bad men may pervert them , may no● good men make a good use of them ? if some may destroy themselves by their own weakness and folly , may not others be saved by their diligence and care ? if it were proved by n. o. that st. peter charged all this upo● them for want of adhering to their guides , that would approach nearer his business ; but if st. peter had intended any such thing as n. o. insinuates , what fairer opportunity had there been of preventing this instability in others by telling them , that god had appointed infallible guides in his church to prevent such abuses of scripture , and that , so long as they adhered to them , they were safe ; but there is not the least word in st. peter to this purpose , when it had been most necess●ry to have given such advice ; but he only bids them , have a care of imitating the inconstancy of such wicked men , and grow in the grace and knowledge of iesus christ. if on so fair and just an occasion offered , st. peter himself whom they believe to have been head of the church at that time , and at rome at the writing of this epistle , doth wholly omit referring men in the sense of obscure places to infallible guides ; what can we else infer but that st. peter knew of no such appointment of christ , or thought no such thing of necessity for his church . for if he had , such was his care and faithfulness , he would never have omitted so necessary a thing ; if the salvation of mens souls had depended upon it . if it be not then necessary to mens salvation to have an infallible interpretation of doubtful places ; for what other end can it become necessary ? is it , that without this , the churches peace cannot be preserved , because controversies arising in the church , no issue can be put to them , unless there be an infallible iudge to determine which is the true sence of scripture ? for it is impossible that scripture it self should be judge , because the controversy is about the sense of scripture . so that either there is no way left to determine controversies , or there must be an infallible judge to deliver the sense of scripture in ●oubtful places . this is the force of all that i know can be said in this matter ; to which i answer . . the strength of this argument depends upon the supposition of the necessity of determining controversies in religion by a living judge , who must pronounce sentence between the parties in 〈◊〉 . which supposition , how plausible soever it seems , is not built on any sufficient fo●ndation of scripture or reason . for the weakness of humane understanding , the power of interest and passion , and the ambi●●ity of words , are as apt to beget disputes in religion as in any other things ; so that we have 〈◊〉 ca●se at all to wonder that there should happen to be controversies among men about there 〈◊〉 ; when we see them daily happen about the laws of every country . the only question now is , whether as the necessities of people have made it necessary that there should not only be laws but judges , who should be as the most equal arbitrators to put an end to such differences as may happen among men about matters of right and law , it be thus in religion too ? and this question is plainly about a matter of fact i.e. whether christ hath appointed such judges in all ages , who are to determine all emergent controversies about the difficult places of his law ? and in this case we think it is all the reason in the world , that they who affirm should prove , especially , when they affirm a matter of their own right , and challenge a submission from others on the account of it . we desire them who challenge to be our infallible guides , that they would shew their commission , and produce their patent : for as we are ready to yield obedience , if they crave it , so we think it treason and tyranny in them to usurp it , if they have it not . and it is to no purpose to talk of the benefits that would come to the world by an infallible judge of controversies , unless they first prove that there is one . but we must not allow men to prove things to be , meerly because they think it fitting they should be ; for that is to make themselves wiser than christ and rather to tell him what he should have done , than prove what he hath done . what if ▪ christ having provided for the necessaries of salvation by a clear revelation should leave other things in the dark , to exercise the wits of some and the charity of others ? what if , he thought it sufficient to oblige men to the greatest honesty and integrity in knowing and doing the will of god , and hath promised to pass by the errours and failings men are subject to barely as men ? what if , he foresaw this matter of ending controversies would be an occasion of raising one of the greatest in the christian world , and become a pretence of the most intolerable tyranny over the minds of men ? and therefore what if , he thought it reasonable to leave the failings of mens understandings and lives upon the same terms , so as to give sufficient means to prevent either , but not effectually to hinder men from falling into either of them ? what if , the nature of religion will not bear such a determination of controversies as civil matters will ? because , civil matters concern the right and wrong of particular persons , in which it is not the sentence of the judge so much as the civil force whereby it is backed which puts an end to the dispute ; but in matters of religion , the ending controversies can be no effect of force and power , but of reason and conviction of conscience ; and all the pretended infallibility in the world can never satisfy my mind , unless i be first assured of that infallibility . in all civil causes , it is agreed on both sides that such judges are appointed to determine cases of law ; and on the supposition of this men proceed to tryal before them ; but in our case this is the main thing in dispute , and he that pretends to be the judge is the most accused partie , and what reason can there be , that only on the pretence of greater peace , if controversies were referred to an infallible judge , we must therefore allow every one that pretends to it to be such an infallible guide ? and we must on the same ground allow every one , if we must not first be satisfied of the grounds on which it is challenged by any one . and withal , since christ is the best judge of what is fittest for his church , we must see by his laws whether he hath made it necessary for all controversies to be ended by a standing judge , that should arise about the sense of scripture ? if he hath not done it , it is to no pu●pose to say , it is fit he should have done it ; for that is to upbraid christ with weakness and not to end differences in his church . . supposing it necessary that controversies should be ended , it may as well be done without an infallible judge of the sense of scripture as with one ; for all that is pretended to be done by an infallible judge is to give a certain sense of controverted places ; so that men are either bound to look on that which they give as the certain sense on the account of the infallibility of the interpreter , or that such an infallible interpretation being set aside , there is no way to know the certain sense of scripture . if the first , then no man can be more certain of the sense of any doubtful place , than he is of the infallibility of his interpreter : i desire therefore to be resolved in this case . i am told i can arrive at no certainty of the sense of doubtful places of scripture without an infallible interpreter , i say the places of scripture which are alledged for such an infallible judge are the most doubtful and controverted of any ; i would fain understand by what means i may come to be certain of the meaning of these places , and to find out the sense of them ? must i do it only by an infallible guide ? but that is the thing i am now seeking for , and i must not suppose that which i am to prove . if i may be certain without supposing such an infallible guide of the meaning of these very doubtful and controverted places , than why may i not by the same way of proceeding arrive at the certainty of any other less doubtful and obscure places ? unless there be some private way to come at the sense of those places which will hold for none else besides them , which is not so easy to understand . . i come the●efore to the second enquiry , which is about the means of attaining the certain sense of scripture in doubtful places , without the supposition of an infallible guide . it will not i hope be denyed , that the primitive christian church had a certain way of understanding the sense of doubtful places , as far as it was necessary to be understood , and that they wanted no means which christ had appointed for the ending of controversies . but i shall now shew , that they proceeded by no other means than what we use , so that , if they had any means to come to a certain sense of scripture , we have the same ; and it would be a ve●y hard case if by the use of the same means we cannot attain the same end . i shall therefore give an account of the proceeding of the primitive church in this weighty controversy concerning the sense of scripture in doubtful places ; and if no such thing was then heard off as an infallible judge , it is a plain demonstration , they thought there was none appointed ; because the disputes that happened then required as much the authority of such a judge as any that are at this day in the christian church . in the first ages of christianity , there were two sorts of controversies which disturbed the church ; one was concerning the authority of the books of the new testament , and the other concerning the sense of them . for , there was no one book of the new testament whose authority was not called in question , by some hereticks in those first ages . the gnosticks , ( by whom i understand the followers of simon magus menander , saturninus and basilides ) , ha● framed a new religion of their own under the name of christian , and had no regard to the writings either of the old or new testament , but had a book of their own , which they called the gospel of perfection . but as epiphanius well observes , no man that hath understanding , needs scripture to refute such a religion as theirs was ; for right reason alone was sufficient to discover the folly and filthyness of it . the followers of cerinthus and ebion acknowledged no other gospel but that of st. matthew ; and that not entire , but with diverse corruptions and interpolations according to their several fancies . cerdon and marcion allowed no gospel but that of st. luke , which they altered according to their pleasure , cutting off the genealogy and other places , and inserting many things as it served most to their purpose , as may be seen at large in epiphanius . some say , the valentinians received no other gospel but that of st. iohn , ( as the alogi in epiphanius rejected that alone , ) but i do not find that valentinus did reject any , but added more ; for irenaeus chargeth the valentinians only with adding another gospel , which they called the gospel of truth ; and tertullian expresly saith , that valentinus therein differed from marcion , that marcion cut off what he pleased with his sword , but valentinus corrupted it with his pen ; for although he allowed all the books of the new testament , yet he perverted the meaning of them . eusebius tells us that the followers of severus rejected the epistles of s. paul and the acts of the apostles ; and interpreted the law , and the prophets and the gospels after a peculiar sense of their own . so that we see those who undertook to confute these hereticks were not only to vindicate the true sense of scripture , but to dispute with such , who did not own the same books which they did ; and therefore were forced to use such ways of arguing as were proper to them : as may be seen at large by the proceedings of irenaeus , and tertullian against them . but because the valentinians and marcionites did endeavour to suit their extravagant fancies to the scriptures allowed by them , it will be necessary for us , to enquire by what means they went about to clear the true sense of scripture from their false glosses and interpretations . irenaeus in the beginning of his book , relating at large the doctrines of the val●ntinians , saith , that by the perverse interpretations and corrupt expositions of the scripture , they drew away unstable minds from the true faith ; for they pretended to find out deeper and more mysterious things in the scripture , than others were acquainted with , viz. that christ intimated the . aeöns by not appearing till the . year of his age. that the parable of men called at the first , the third , the sixth , the ninth , the eleventh hour referred to the same thing , for those hours make up the number of . that st. paul often mentions these aeöns and the pro●uctions of them ; that the duodecade of aeöns was implyed in our saviours ●isputing with the doctors at . years of age , and in the choice of the . apostles : and the remaining . by his abiding . months as they said with his disciples after his resurrection : and where ever in scripture they met with words suitable to the description of their aeöns , they pretended that they did refer to their notions , but were obscurely expressed on purpose : for which end they made use of parables , and the first of st. john and many passages in st. pauls epistles . what course now doth irenaeus take to clear the sense of scripture in these controverted places ? doth he till them that god had appointed infallible guides in his church , to whom appeal was to be made in all such cases ? nothing like it , through his whole book ; but he argues with very good reason that no such thing as they imagined could be intended by the scripture . . from the scope and design of the scripture , which ought chiefly to be regarded ; whereas they only took some particular passages which served most to their purpose , without looking to the series of the discourse wherein they were . therefore saith he , they make only a rope of sand , when they apply the parables of our saviour , or the sayings of the prophets or apostles to their opinions ; for they pass over the order and connexion of the scriptures ; and as much as in them lyes loose the members of truth from each other ; and then transform and change them from one thing to another , thereby deceiving men . as if , saith he , a man should take an excellent image of a prince , done with a great deal of art in pretious stones ; and remove those stones out of their proper places and turn them into the shape of a dog or a fox , ill put together , and should then affirm , that because the stones are the same , that this image of a dog or a fox , was the image of the prince made by such an excellent artist : after the very same way , saith he , do they use the scriptures . or as he afterwards expresseth it , they take several words and names here and there , and put them together , much after the way of those who would apply the words of homer to any argument proposed to them ; which some have done so artificially , that unskilful men have been perswaded that homer did mean that very thing when he wrote his poem . as one did the going of hercules to cerberus so exactly in the words of homer , ( put together in the greek fragments of irenaeus , ) that those who did not consider upon what different occasions those words were used by him , some being spoken of vlisses , some of priamus , some of maenelaus , and agamemnon , and some of hercules , might imagine that the poet intended to describe what the other expressed by him . but he that will examine the several places will find that the words indeed are homers , but the sense his that so applyed them . so it is in this case , the words are the scriptures , but applyed quite in another way , than they were intended ; the stones are the same , but yet the image of the fox is not to be taken for that of the prince : and when he hath taken the pains to put every thing in its proper and due place , he will then easily find out the deceit . and by the help of this rule irenaeus vindicates the places of scripture , which the valentinians made use of ; and makes it evident that could not be the sense of them which they put upon them . as he doth particularly prove that st. iohn by the beginning of his gospel could not mean the first ogdoad of the valentinians . to the very same purpose doth tertullian argue against their way of interpreting scripture ; that although it seems to have wit and easiness in it , yet it is no more than is often practised on virgil and homer as well as the scriptures . for we have seen virgil , saith he , with the same words turned quite to another sense ; as hosidius get a made the tragoedy of medea , out of virgil ( some fragments whereof are still extant ) and one had explained cebes his table in virgils words ; and many had applyed the words of homer in their cento's to different purposes , and not only some of late , but isidore ▪ saith , that prob● and pomponius before his time had mad● virgil evangelize . therefore it is n● wonder , saith tertullian , that the scripture should be so abused , it being much more fruitful , and applicable to several purposes than other writings are . nay saith he , i am not afraid to say , that the scriptures were so framed by the will of god , that they might afford matter for hereticks to work upon ; since i read that there must be heresies , which cannot be without the scripture . and surely then , he did not imagine that god had appointed an infallible judge on purpose to prevent the being of heresies , by giving an infallible sense of scripture . . from the repugnancy of the sence they gave to other places of scripture . irenaeus observes , that the hereticks delighted most in dark places , and left the plain ones ; whereas we ought most to rely upon the plain places and by them interpret the obscure . for such who loved god and the truth would study most those things which god put under our command and knowledge : and those are things which are plain before our eyes , and are open and without ambiguity laid down in scriptures ; and to these parables and dark places ought to be fitted , and by this means they may be interpreted without danger , and of all alike and the body of truth remains entire with a suitableness of all its parts . but without this every man interprets as he pleases , and there will be no certain rule of truth ; but every interpretation will be according to the opinion of the interpreter , and m●n will contradict each other as the philosophers did . and by this means men will be always seeking and never finding because they cast away the means of finding . seeing therefore , saith he , that all the scriptures both prophetical and evangelical are plain and clear , and may be heard alike of all : they must be very blind that will not see in so great light , but darken themselves in parables , wherein every one of them thinks he hath found a god of his own . and from hence he very much blames the hereticks , since they could not so much as pretend that any thing was plainly said for them in scripture , but only intimated in dark sayings and parables , that they would leave that which is certain and undoubted and true , for that which was uncertain and obscure . which , he saith , is not to build the house upon the firm and strong ro●k ; but upon the uncertainty of the sand ; on which it may be easily overturned . this excellent rule for interpreting scripture irenaeus makes great use of in his following discourse , and in the very next chapter urges this as the consequence of it , that having truth for our rule , and so plain testimony of god , men ought not to perplex themselves with doubtful questions concerning god , but grow in the love of him who hath done and doth so great things for us , and never fall off from that knowledge which is most clearly revealed . and we ought to be content with what is clearly made known in the scriptures , because they are perfect , as coming from the w●rd and spirit of god. and we need 〈◊〉 ●onder if there be many things in religion above our understandings , since there are so in natural things which are daily seen by us : as in the nature of birds , water , air , meteors , &c. of which we may talk much , but only god knows what the truth is . therefore why should we think much if it be so in religion too ? wherein are some things we may understand and others we must leave to god , and if we do so we shall keep our faith without danger . and all scripture being agreeable to it self , the dark places must be understood in a way most suitable to the sense of the plain . . the sense they gave of scripture was contrary to the doctrine of faith received by all true christians from the beginning : which he calls the unmoveable rule of faith received in baptism ; and ▪ which the church dispersed over the earth did equally receive in all places ; with a wonderful consent . for although the places and languages be never so distant or different from each other , yet the faith is the very same as there is one sun which inlightens the whole world ; which faith none did enlarge or diminish . and after having shewn the great absurdities of the doctrines of the enemies of this faith , in his first and second books , in the beginning of the third he shews that the apostles did fully understand the mind of christ , that they preached the same doctrine which the church received , and which , after their preaching it , was committed to writing by the will of god in the scriptures , to be the pillar and ground of faith. which was the true reason why the hereticks did go about to disparage the scriptures because they were condemned by them : therefore they would not allow them sufficient authority , and charged them with contradictions , and so great obscurity that the truth could not be found in them without the help of tradition , which they accounted the key to unlock all the difficulties of scripture . and was not to be sought for in writings , but was delivered down from hand to hand ; for which cause st. paul said we speak wisdom among them that are perfect . which wisdom they pretended to be among themselves . on this account the matter of tradition came first into dispute in the christian church : and irenaeus appeals to the most eminent churches and especially that of rome , because of the great resort of christians thither , whether any such tradition was ever received among them and all the churches of asia received the same faith from the apostles , and knew of no such tradition as the valentinians pretended to . and there was no reason to think , that so many churches , founded by the apostles or christ , should be ignorant of such a tradition ; and supposing no scriptures at all had been written by the apostles , we must then have followed the tradition of the most ancient and apostolical churches , and even the most barbarous nations that had embraced christianity without any writings : yet fully agreed with other churches in the doctrine of faith , for that is it he means by the rule of faith , viz. a summary comprehension of the doctrine received among christians , such as the creed is mentioned by irenaeus ; and afterwards he speaks of the rule of the valentinians in opposition to that of the sound christians . from hence irenaeus proceeds to confute the doctrine of the valentinians by scripture and reason in the third , fourth and fifth books : all which ways of finding out the sense of scripture in doubtful places , we allow of and approve ; and are always ready to appeal to them in any of the matters controverted between us and the church of rome . but irenaeus knew nothing of any infallible judge to determine the sense of scripture ; for if he had , it would have been very strange he should have gone so much the farthest way about , when he might so easily have told the valentinians that god had entrusted the guides of his church , especially at rome with the faculty of interpreting scripture , and that all men were bound to believe that to be the sense of it which they declared and no other . but men must be pardoned if they do not write that which never entred into their heads . after irenaeus , tertullian sets himself the most to dispute against those who opposed the faith of the church ; and the method he takes in his boo of praescription of hereticks is this . . that there must be a certain unalterable rule of faith. for he that believes , doth not only suppose sufficient grounds for his faith , but bounds that are set to it ; and therefore there is no need of further search since the gospel is revealed . this he speaks to take away the pretence of the seekers of those days , who were always crying , seek and ye shall find : to which he replys , that we are to consider not the bare words , but the reason of them ; and in the first place we are to suppose this , that there is one certain and fixed doctrine delivered by christ which all nations are bound to believe , and therefore to seek , that when they have found they may believe it . therefore all our enquiries are to be confined within that compass ; what that doctrine was , which christ delivered : for otherwise there will be no end of seeking . . he shews what this rule of faith is , by repeating the articles of the ancient creed , which he saith was universally , received among true christians and disputed by none but hereticks . which rule of faith being embraced , then he saith , a liberty is allowed for other enquiries in doubtful or obscure matters . for faith lyes in the rule ; but other things were matters of skill and curiosity ; and it is faith which saves men , and not their skill in expounding scriptures : and while men keep themselves within that rule , they are safe enough , for to know nothing beyond it , is to know all . . but they pretend scripture for what they deliver , and by that means unsettle the minds of many . to this he answers several ways . . that such persons as those were , ought not to be admitted to a dispute concerning the sense of scripture ; because they rather deserved to be censured than disputed , for bringing such new heresies into the church ; but chiefly because it was to no purpose to dispute with them about the sense of scripture , who received what scriptures they pleased themselves , and added and took away as they thought fit . and what can the most skilful men in the scripture , do with such men , who deny or affirm what they please ? therefore such kind of disputes tended to no good at all , where either side charged the other with forging and perverting the scriptures , and so the controversy with them , was not to be managed by the scriptures , by which either none , or an uncertain victory was to be obtained . . in this dispute about the sense of scripture , the true ancient faith is first to be enquired after , for among whom that was , there would appear to be the true meaning of scripture . and for finding out the true faith , we are to remember , that , christ sent abroad his apostles to plant churches in every city , from whence other churches did derive the faith , which are called apostolical from their agreement in this common faith at first delivered by the apostles ; that , the way to understand this apostolical faith is to have recourse to the apostolical churches ; for it is unreasonable to suppose that the apostles should not know the doctrine of christ , ( which he at large proves ) or that they did not deliver to the churches planted by them the things which they knew ; or that the churches misunderstood their doctrine because all the christian churches were agreed in one common faith : and therefore there is all the reason to believe that so universal consent must arise from some common cause , which can be supposed to be no other than the common delivery of it by all the apostles . but the doctrines of the hereticks were novel and upstart ; and we must say all the former christians were baptized into a false faith , as not knowing the true god or the true christ if marcion and valentinus did deliver the true doctrine , but that which is first is true and from god , that which comes after is foraign and false . if marcion and valentinus , nigidius or hermogenes broach new opinions and set up other expositions of scripture than the christian church hath received from the apostles times , that without any farther proof , discovers their imposture . . two senses directly contrary to each other cannot proceed from the same apostolical persons . this tertullian likewise insists upon to shew that although they might pretend antiquity , and that as far as the apostolical times , yet the contrariety of their doctrine to that of the apostles would sufficiently manifest the falshood of it . for saith he , the apostles would never contradict each other or themselves ; and if the apostolical persons had contradicted them , they had not been joyned together in the communion of the same faith ; which all the apostolical churches were . but the doctrines broached by these men , were in their seeds condemned by the apostles themselves ; so marcion , apelles , and valentinus were confuted in the sadducees , and first corrupters of christianity . but the true christians could not be charged by their adversaries with holding any thing contrary to what the church received from the apostles , the apostles from christ , and christ from god. for the succession of the churches was so evident , and the chairs of the apostles so well known , that any one might satisfy his curiosity about their doctrine , especially since their authentick epistles are still preserved therein . but where a diversity of doctrine was found from the apostles , that was sufficient evidence of a false sense that was put upon the scriptures . thus tertullian lays down the rules of finding out the sense of controverted places of scripture , without the least insinuation of any infallibility placed in the guides of the church for determining the certain sense of them . but lest by this way of prescribing against hereticks , he should seem to decline the merits of the cause out of distrust of being able to manage it against them , he tells us therefore elsewhere he would set aside the ground of prescription , or just exception against their pleading , ( for so prescription signifies in him ) as against marcion and hermogenes and praxeas and refute their opinions upon other grounds . in his books against marcion , he first lays down marcions rule , as he calls it , i.e. the sum of his opinion , which was making the creator of the world , and the father of our lord jesus christ two distinct gods , the one nothing but goodness , and the other , the author of evil : which opinion he overthrows from principles of reason , because there cannot be two infinitely great , and on the same grounds he makes two he may make many more , and because god must be known by his works , and he could not be god that did not create the world ; and so continues arguing against marcion to the end of the first book . in the second he vindicates god the creator from all the objections which marcion had mustered against his goodness . in the third he proves that christ was the son of god the creator ; first by reason and then by scripture , and lays down two rules for understanding the prophetical predictions relating to the manner of expressing future things as past , and the aenigmatical way of representing plain things : afterwards he proves in the same manner from scripture and reason , that christ did truly assume our nature and not meerly in appearance ; which he demonstrates from the death and resurrection of christ and from the evidence of sense ; and makes that sufficient evidence of the truth of a body that it is the object of three senses , of sight , and touch and hearing . which is the same way of arguing we make use of against transubstantiation , and if marcion had been so subtle to have used the evasions those do in the roman church , he might have defended the putative body of christ in the very same manner that they do the being of accidents without a substance ▪ in the fourth book he asserts against marcion the authority of the gospel received in the christian church above that which marcion allowed , by the greater antiquity and the universal reception of the true gospels ; and after refutes the supposition of a twofold christ one for the jews and another for the gentiles from the comparing of scriptures together , which he doth with great diligence and answers all the arguments from thence brought by marcion , to prove that christ was an enemy to the law of moses . in his fifth and last book he proves out of the epistles of st. paul , allowed by marcion , that he preached no other god than the creator , and that christ was the son of god the creator ; which he doth from the scope and circumstances of the places without apprehending the least necessity of calling in any infallible guides to give the certain sense and meaning of them . against hermogenes , he disputes about the eternity of matter ; the controversy between them he tells us was concerning the sense of some places of scripture , which relate to the creation of things ; tertullian proves that all things were made of nothing , because it is not mentioned out of what they were made ; hermogenes proves they were made out of matter ; because it is not said they were made of nothing . to determine therefore the sense of these places tertullian shews from reason the repugnancy of the eternity of matter to the attributes of god : he compares several places of scripture together , he reasons from the manner of the expressions and the idiom of scripture . i adore , saith he , the fulness of the scripture which shews me both the maker and the thing made ; but the gospel likewise discovers by whom all things were made . but the scripture no where saith that all things were made out of matter . let the shop of hermogenes shew where it is written ; and if it be not written let him fear the wo denounced to those who add or take from what is written . he examins the several places in dispute , and by proving that sense which hermogenes put upon them to be repugnant to reason , ( as he shews to the end of that book ) he concludes his sense of scripture to be false and erroneous . against praxeas , he disputes whether god the father took our nature upon him , and the arguments on both sides are drawn from the scriptures ; but tertullian well observes , that they insisted upon two or three places of scripture , and would make all the rest though far more , to yield to them . whereas the fewer places ought to be understood according to the sense of the greater number . but this saith he , is the property of all hereticks because they can find but few places for them , they defend the smaller number against the greater : which is against the nature of a rule , wherein the first and the most , ought to oversway the latter and the fewer . and therefore he sets himself throughout that book to produce the far greater number of places of scripture , which do assert the distinction between the father and the son ; and consequently that it could not be the father who suffered for us . hitherto we find nothing said of an infallible guide to give the certain sense of scripture , when the fairest occasion was offered , by those who disputed the most concerning the sense of scripture in the age wherein they lived viz. by irenaeus and tertullian . i now proceed to clemens of alexandria who in his learned collections , proposes that objection , against christianity , that there were many heresies among christians , and therefore men could believe nothing . to which he answers , that there were heresies among the jews and philosophers ; and that objection was not thought sufficient against iudaism or philosophy , and therefore ought not to be against christianity . besides the coming of heresies was foretold , and what ever is foretold must come to pass . the physitians saith he differ in their opinions , yet men do not neglect to make use of them , when they are sick . heresies should only make men more careful what they choose . men ought thereby to endeavour the more to find out truth from falshood ; as if two sorts of fruit be offered to a man real , and waxen ; will a man abstain from both , because one is counterfeit , or rather find out the true from the apparent ? when several ways offer themselves for a man to go in , he ought not therefore to sit down and not stir a step further ; but he uses the best means to find out the true way and then walks in it . so that they are justly condemned who do not discern the true from the false ; for they who will , saith he , may find out the truth . for either there is demonstration or not ; all grant demonstration , or evidence , who do not destroy our senses ; if there be demonstration there must be search and enquiry made ; and by the scriptures we may demonstratively learn how heresies fell of , and that the exactest knowledge was to be found in the truth and the ancient church . now the true searchers will not leave till they find evidence from the scriptures . to this end , he commends the exercise of mens reason and understanding , impartiality or laying aside opinion , a right disposition of soul , for when men are given over to their lusts they endeavour to wrest the scriptures to them . but he establishes the scripture as the only principle of certainty to christians , and more credible than any demonstration : which who so have tasted are called faithful , but those who are versed in them are the truly knowing men . the great objection now is , that hereticks make use of scripture too : i but they , saith he , reject what they please , and do not follow the body and contexture of prophecy ; but take ambiguous expressions and apply them to their own opinions : and a few scattered phrases without regarding the sense and importance of them . for in the scriptures produced by them , you may find them either making use of meer names , and changing the significations of them ; never attending to the scope and intention of them . but truth , saith he , doth not lye in the change of the signification of words ( for by that means all truth may be overthrown ) but in considering what is proper and perfectly agreeable to our lord and almighty god , and in confirming every thing which is demonstrated by the scripture out of the same scriptures . wherein clemens alexandrinus lays down such rules as he thought necessary to find out the certain sense of scripture , viz. by considering the scope and coherence of the words , the proper sense and importance of them , the comparing of scripture with scripture , and the doctrine drawn from it with the nature and properties of god , all which are excellent rules , without the least intimation of the necessity of any infallible interpreter to give the certain sense of doubtful places . after this time a great dispute arose in the church about the rebaptizing hereticks , managed by the eastern and african bishops against stephen bishop of rome . here the question was about the sense of several places of scripture , and the practice of the apostles ; as appears by the epistles of cyprian and firmilian ; both parties pleading scripture and tradition for themselves . but no such thing as an infallibility in judgement was pleaded by the pope , nor any thing like it in the least acknowledged by his adversaries , who charge him , ( without any respect to his infallible guideship , ) with pride , error , rashness , impertinency , and contradicting himself . which makes baronius very tragically exclaim : and although he makes use of this as a great argument of the prevalency of tradition , because the opinion of stephen obtained in the church ; yet there is no evidence at all that any churches did submit to the opinion of stephen when he declared himself , but as appears by dionystus of alexandria's epistles , the controversy continued after his time ; and if we look into the judgement of the church in following ages , we shall find that neither stephens opinion , nor his adversaries were followed ; ( for stephen was against rebaptizing any hereticks , and the others were for rebaptizing all , because one baptism was only in the true church : ) for in the . canon of the council of nice the samosatenian baptism is pronounced null ? and the persons who received it are to be new baptized ; and the first council of arles decrees , that in case of heresy men are to receive new baptism but not otherwise : the second council of arles puts a distinction between hereticks ; decreeing that the photinians and samosatenians should be baptized again ; but not the bonofiaci no● the arians , but they were to be received upon renouncing their heresy without baptism . which seems the harder to understand since the bonosiaci were no other than photinians . the most probable way of solving it is , that these two latter sorts did preserve the form of baptism entire , but the photinians and samosatenians altered it : which st. augustin saith , is a thing to be believed . so gennadius reports it that those who were baptized without invocation of the b. trinity , were to he baptized upon their reception into the church ( not rebaptized because the former was accounted null ) of these he reckons not only the paulianists and photinians , but the bon●s●●ci too and many others . but st. basil determines the case of baptism , not from the form but from the faith which they professed ; a schismatical baptism he faith , was allowed , but not heretical , by which he means such as denyed the trinity ; and therein he saith , s. cyprian and firmilian were to blame , because they would allow no baptism among persons separated from the communion of the church . the council of laodicea decreed that the novatians , photinians , and quarto-decimans were to be received without new baptism , but not the montanists , or cataphryges : but binius saith there was one copy , wherein the photinians were left out ; and then these canons may agree with the rest ; and baronius asserts that the greater number of m. s. copies leave out photinians , and withal he proves , that the church did never allow the baptism of the photinians , though it did of the arians ; by which we see that the church afterwards did not follow that which stephen pretended to be an apostolical tradition , viz. that no hereticks should be rebaptized ; and from hence we may conclude that the pope was far from being thought an infallible guide or interpreter of scripture , either by that , or succeeding ages ; when not only single persons that were eminent guides of the church ( such as the african and eastern bishops were , ) opposed his doctrine , and slighted his excommunications , but several councils called both in the east and africa , and the most eminent councils of the church afterwards ( such as the first of arles and nice ) decreed contrary to what he declared to be an apostolical tradition . in the same age we meet with another great controversy about the sense of scripture , for paulus samosatenus openly denyed the divinity of christ and asserted the doctrine of it to be repugnant to scripture , and the ancient apostolical tradition . for this paulus revived the heresie of artemon ; whose followers , as appears by the fragment of an ancient writer against them in eusebius , ( supposed to be caius ) pleaded that the apostles were of their mind , and that their doctrine continued in the church till the time of victor , and then it began to be corrupted . which saith that writer would seem probable , if the holy scriptures did not first contradict them ; and the books of several christians before victors time . so that we see the main of the controversie did depend upon the sense of scripture which was pleaded on both sides . but what course was taken in this important controversie to find out the certain sense of scripture ? do they appeal to any infallible guides ? nothing like it . but in the councils of antioch , in the writings of dionysius of alexandria and others since , they who opposed the samosatenian doctrine endeavoured with all their strength to prove that to be the true sense of scripture , which asserted the divinity of christ. it is great pity the dispute of malchion with paulus is now lost , which was extant in eusebius his time ; but in the questions and answers between paulus and dionysius ; ( which valesius without reason suspects since st. hierome mentions his epistle against paulus ) the dispute was about the true sense of scripture which both pleaded for themselves . paulus insists on those places , which speak of the humane infirmities of christ , which he saith prove that he was meer man and not god ; the other answers that these things were not inconsistent with the being of the divine nature , since expressions implying humane passions are attributed to god in scripture : but he proves from multitude of scriptures , and reasons drawn from them that the divine nature is attributed to christ , and therefore the other places which seem repugnant to it , are to be interpreted in a sense agreeable thereto . the same course is likewise taken by epiphanius against this heresie : who saith the christians way of answering difficulties was not from their own reasons , but from the scope and consequence of scripture : and particularly adds that the doctrine of the trinity was carefully delivered in the scriptures , because god foresaw the many heresies which would arise about it . but never any controve●sie about the sense of scripture disturbed the church more , than that which the arians raised ; and if ever any had reason to think of some certain and infallible way of finding out the sense of scripture the catholick christians of that age had . i shall therefore give an account of what way the best writers of the church in that time took to find out the sense of scripture in the controverted places . of all the writers against them athanasius hath justly the greatest esteem , and petavius saith that god inspired him with greater skill in this controversie , than any others before him . the principle he goes upon in all his disputes against the arians , is this , that our true faith is built upon the scriptures , so in several places of his conference with the arian and in the beginning of his epistle to iovianus and elsewhere . therefore in the entrance of his disputations against the arians , he adviseth all that would secure themselves from the impostures of hereticks , to study the scriptures ; because those who are versed therein stand firm against all their assaults ; but they who look only at the words , without understanding the meaning of them are easily seduced by them . and this counsel he gives , after the council of nice , had decreed the arian doctrine to be heresie ; and although he saith , other ways may be used to confute it , yet because the holy scripture is more sufficient than all of them , therefore those who would be better instructed in these things , i would advise them to be conversant in the divine oracles . but did not the arians plead scripture as well as they ? how then could the scripture end this controversie , which did arise about the sense of scripture ? this objection , which is now made so much of against the scriptures , was never so much as thought of in those days ; or if it were , was not thought worth answering ; for they di● not in the least desert the proofs of scripture , because their adversaries made use of it too . but they endeavou●ed to shew that their adversaries doctrine had no solid foundation in scripture , but theirs had i.e. that the arians perverted it , because they did not examine and compare places as they ought to do , but run away with a few words without considering the scope and design of them ; or comparing them with places plainer than those were which they brought . thus when the arians objected that place my father is greater than i , athanasius bids them compare that with other places , such as my father and i are one , and who being in the form of god thought it no robbery to be equ●● with god ; and by him all things were made &c. when arius objected , to us there is but one god of whom are all things , he tel●s him , he ought to consider the following words , and one lord iesus christ by whom are all things ; from whence when arius argued that christ was only gods instrument in creating things , athanasius then bids him compare this place with another , where it is said of whom the whole body , &c. not barely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . when the arians objected , christs saying , all things are delivered to me from my father , athanasius opposes that place of st. iohn to it , by him all things were made ; thus when they objected several other places , he constantly hath recourse to iohn . , , . to phil. . . iohn . . and others which he thought the plainest places for christs eternal divinity ; and by these he proves that the other were to be interpreted , with a respect to his humane nature , and the state he was in upon earth . so that the greatest defender of the doctrine of the trinity against the arians saw no necessity at all of calling in the assistance of any infal●ible guides , to give the certain sense of scripture in these doubtful places ; but he thought the scripture plain enough to all those who would impartially examine it ; and for others who wilfully shut their eyes , no light could be great enough for them . indeed , when the arians called in the help of any of the ancient writers to justify their doctrine , then athanasius thought himself concerne● to vind●cate them ; as particularly dionysius of alexandria . but , as he saith , if they can produce scripture or reason for what they say let them do it , but if not , let them hold their peace : thereby implying that these were the only considerable things to be regarded : yet he shews at large that they abused the testimony of dionysius , who although in his letters against sabellius he spake too much the other way , yet in other of his writings he sufficiently cleared himself from being a savou●er of the arian heresie . and although athanasius doth else where say , that the faith which the catholick church then held was the faith of their fore-fathers , and descended from the apostles ; yet , he no where saith , that without the help of that tradition it had been impossible to have known the certain sense of scripture , much less without the infallible interpretation of the guides of the present church . s. hilary in his disputes against the same hereticks , professes in the beginning that his intention was to confound their rage and ignorance out of writings of the prophets and apostles : and to that end desires of his readers that they would conceive of god not according to the laws of their own beings , but according to the greatness of what he had declared of himself . for he is the best reader of scripture , who doth not bring his sense to the scripture , but takes it from it , and doth not resolve before hand to find that there , which he concluded must be the sence before he reads . in things therefore which concern god , we must allow him to know himself best , and give due reverence to his word . for he is the best witness to himself who cannot be known but by himself . in which words he plainly asserts that the foundation of our faith must be in the scriptures , and that a free and impartial mind is necessary to find out the true sense of scripture . and after he had said in the second book , that heresies arise from misunderstanding the scripture , and charged in his fourth book the arians particularly with it , he proceeds to answer all the places produced by them out of the old and new testament , by comparing several places together , and the antecedents and consequents , and by these means proving that they mistook the meaning of scripture . so in the beginning of his ninth book rehearsing the common places , which were made use of by the arians , he saith , they repeated the words alone , without enquiring into the meaning , or contexture of them ; whereas the true sense of scripture is to be taken from the antecedents and consequents : their fundamental mistake being the applying those things to his divine nature , which were spoken of his humane : which he makes good by a particular examination of the several places in controversie . the same course is taken by epiphanius , phaebadius and others of the ancient writers of the church , who asserted the eternal divinity of christ against the arians . epiphanius therefore charges them which mangling and perverting the sense of scripture ; understanding figurative expressions liter●●ly , and those which are intended in a plain sense figuratively . so that it is observable in that great controversie which disturbed the church so many years , which exercised the wits of all men in that time to find out a way to put an end to it , after the guides of the church had in the council of nice declared what was the catholick faith : yet still the controversie was managed about the sense of scripture , and no other ways made use of for finding it , than such as we plead for at this day . it is a most incredible thing , that in a time of so violent contention , so horrible confusion , so scandalous divisions in the christian church , none of the catholick bishops should once suggest this admirable expedient of infallibility . but this palladium was not then fallen down from heaven , or if it were , it was kept so secret , that not one of the writers of the christian church in that busie and disputing age discovered the least knowledge of it . unless it be said that of all times it was then least fit to talk of infallibility in the guides of the church , when they so frequently in councils contr●dicted each other . the synodical book in the new tomes of the councils , reckons up . several councils of bishops in the time of the arian controversie , whereof near . were for the arians , and the rest against them . if the sense of scripture were in this time to be taken from the guides of the church , what security could any man have against arianism ? since the councils which favoured it , were more numerous than those which opposed and condemned it . yea so mean was the opinion which some of the greatest persons of the church at that time had of the guides of the church met together in councils , that st. gregory nazianzen declares he had not seen a good issue of any of them ; but they rather increased mischief than removed any ; because of the contention and ambition which ruled in them , therefore he resolved to come no more at any of them . what ? had st. gregory so mean an esteem of the guides of the christian church to think that , ambition and contention should sway them in their councils and not the spirit of god , which certainly rules not where the other do ? yet this de declares to be his mind upon consideration and experience in that time , and if he had lived to those blessed days of the councils of latter ages , with what zeal and rhetorick would he have set them forth ? never was any answer more jejune to this testimony than that of bellarmin , viz. that forsooth there could be no lawful councils called in his time ; and why so i pray ? was there not a good authority to call them ? but if that had been the reason , he did not so little understand the way of expressing himself , to assign the cause of it to contention and ambition , if he mean quite another thing which he doth not in the least intimate . and what if he were afterwards present at the council of constantinople ? doth that shew , that his mind was in the least changed ? but in this epistle he declares , how little good was to be exspected from a council , and yet afterwards by the emperours command he might be present at one . st. augustin in dealing with maximinus the arian expresly sets aside all authority of the guides of the church , as to the sense of scripture in the places controverted between them ; for he saith , i will neither bring the authority of the council of nice , neither shall you that of ariminum ; but we will proceed by authorities of scripture that are common to both of us , and by the clearest evidence of reason . it seems then st. augustin was far from thinking that there could be no certainty of the sense of scripture if the authority of the guides of the church be set aside . but by what means doth he then think , that men may come to any certainty about the true meaning of scripture ? of that he is best able to give us an account himself having written purposely in this subject in his books of christian doctrine the substance of what he there says may be comprehended in these rules . . that the main scope of the scripture is to perswade men to the love of god and our neighbour , without which , he saith , no man doth truly understand it ; but whosoever interprets scripture to the advancing of that , though he may be mistaken as to the sense of the words , yet his errour is not dangerous . . that in order to the right understanding of scripture men must apply themselves to it with minds duly prepared for it ; by a fear of god , humility , prayer , sincerity , and purity of heart . . that all those things which are necessary to salvation are plainly laid down in holy scriptures ; this is in terms asserted by him , as a fundamental principle , that in those things which are plainly set down in scripture , all things are to be found which contain our faith and rule of life . i.e. all things which are necessary to the love of god and our neighbour , and consequently to the making us happy . and these things men ought especially to read the scriptures for ; and the more they find of them , the larger their understanding of scripture is . . that the obscure places of scripture are to be understood by the plain . for which end he requires frequent reading , and using ones self to the language of scriptures , and drawing examples from plain places to illustrate difficult , and those which are certain to clear the doubtful . for , scarce any thing , saith he , is drawn out of the most difficult places , but what is very plainly set down elsewhere . . that in regard of the infinite variety of latin interpreters ( which it seems were in his time ) in matters of doubt it was necessary to have recourse to the original hebrew and greek : the knowledge of which tongues might therefore be necessary to the knowledge of scripture , because several words are preserved untranslated ; but those being few the necessity is not so great on their account , as the diversity of interpreters ; for although those who had translated the hebrew into greek might be reckoned up , the latin interpreters could not . which diversity of translations doth rather help than hinder the understanding of scripture , if the readers of it be not negligent ; for some doubtful places are cleared by the difference of readings . . where the ambiguity lyes in proper words , the clearing of it depends on the circumstances of the place ; in so much that he determines , that it is a very rare and difficult thing to find such an ambiguity in the words of scripture , which may not be cleared from the intention of the writer , or comparing places , or searching the original language . . men must carefully distinguish between proper and figurative expressions ; for to understand figurative expressions literally is to subject our understanding to carnal conceptions of things ; and that is , saith he , a miserable slavery of mind , to take signs for things ; such signs he tells us under the gospel are the two sacraments of baptism and the lords supper . the great difficulty herein , lyes in the finding out the difference between proper and figurative expressions , for which he lays down this rule , if the words of scripture command what is good and forbid what is evil , it is no figurative expression ; but if it forbids what is good , or command any thing that is evil , it must be figuratively understood . for which he instances in those words of our saviour unless ye eat the flesh , and drink the blood of the son of man ye shall have no life in you . which seeming to command something evil , must be figuratively understood of communicating in the passion of christ , and calling to mind that his flesh was crucified and wounded for us . . there is no danger in different senses being given of the same place of scripture , if every one of those senses appear by other places to be agreeable to truth : this being supposed that the person do sincerely enquire after the sense of the author ; for , saith he , that divine spirit might easily foresee how many several senses those words are capable of , which being agreeable to other parts of scripture , though not the particular meaning of those words , the mistake cannot be dangerous therein . . where such a sense is given which cannot be proved by other certain testimonies of scripture , it must be made manifest to be the sense by clear evidence of reason . but he rather approves the way of proving the sense of scripture by other places of scripture , where the interpretation is doubtful . so that the way in doubtful places which he prescribes is this , either to draw such a sense from them as hath no dispute concerning its being a true proposition , or if it have , that it be confirmed by other places of scripture . besides these , he lays down the . rules of ticonius the donatist which are not of that consequence to be here repeated ; that which i take notice of is , that st. augustin thought the rules he gave sufficient for understanding the meaning of scripture in doubtful places ; but he doth not in the least mention the infallibility of the guides of the church as a necessary means for that end . but he doth assert in as plain terms , as i have done , that scripture is plain in all necessaries to salvation to any sober enquirer , and what ever consequences are charged upon me for making that a fundamental principle , must reflect as much upon st. augustin as me ; and i do not fear all the objections can be made against a principle so evident to reason , and so agreeable not only to st. augustin , but the doctrine of the catholick church both before and after him . the next after st. augustin who hath purposely writ of this argument about the sense of scripture is vincentius lerinensis : about . years after st. augustins death and . after the council of ephesus , who seems to attribute more to the guides of the church than st. augustin doth , yet far enough short of infallibility . he saith , that every man ought to strengthen his faith against heresie by two things , first by the authoriry of the divine law , and then by the tradition of the catholick church : which tradition he makes necessary , not by way of addition to the scripture , for he allows the perfection and sufficiency of that for all things ; but only to interpret scripture by giving a certain sense of it , there being such different opinions among men about it . for all the hereticks whom he there names had different senses of scripture , as novatianus , sabellius , donatus , arius , macedonius , photinus , &c. but then he bounds this tradition within the compass of the universal consent of antiquity as well as the present church ; or as he expresseth it , within those things which were believed every where , always , and by all persons . that we may therefore consider how far these rules of vincentius will serve for explaining the sense of scripture , we are to take notice of the restrictions he lays upon them . that they are to be taken together , and not one of them separate from the rest . as for instance , that of vniversality in any one age of the church , being taken without the consent of antiquity , is no sufficient rule , to interpret scripture by . for vincentius doth suppose that any one age of the church may be so overrun with heresie , that there is no way to confute it , but by recourse to antiquity . for in the case of the arian heresie , he grants that almost the whole church was overspread with it , and there was then no way left but to prefer the consent of antiquity before a prevailing novelty . in some cases the universal consent of the present church is to be relyed upon against the attempts of particular persons , as in that of the donatists ; but then we are to consider , that antiquity was still pleaded on the same side that vniversality was , and supposing that all the ancient church from the apostles times had been of the same mind with the donatists , the greater number of the same age opposing them , would have been no more cogent against them , than it was afterwards for the arians . it is unreasonable to believe that in a thing universally believed by all christians from the apostles times the christian church should be deceived ; but it is quite another thing to say , that the church in any one or more ages since the apostles times may be deceived ; especially if the church be confined to one certain communion excluding all others , and the persons in that church have not liberty to deliver their opinions , for then it is impossible to know what the judgement of the whole church is . and so universality is not thought by vincentius himself to be alone sufficient to determine the sense of scripture ; supposing that universality to be understood according to the honesty of the primitive times for a free and general consent of the christians of that age in which a man lives ; but since the great divisions of the christian world , it is both a very hard matter to know the consent of christendom in most of the controverted places of scripture , and withal the notion of vniversality is debauched and corrupted , and made only to signifie the consent of one great faction , which is called by the name of the catholick church , but truly known by the name of roman . . that great care and judgement must be used in the applying those rules ; for . the consent of antiquity is not equally evident in all matters in dispute , and therefore cannot be of equal use . . there are some things wherein we may be certain of such a consent , and that was in the rule of faith , as vincentius and most of the ancient writers call it i.e. the summary comprehension of a christians duty as to matters of faith , which was not so often called the symbol as the rule of faith , that i mean which was delivered to persons , who were to be baptized and received into the church , this the ancient church universally agreed in as to the substance of it . and as to this vincentius tells us his rule is especially to be understood . for saith he , this consent of antiquity is not to be sought for in all questions that may arise about the sense of scripture , but only or at least chiefly in the rule of faith : or as he elsewhere explains himself , alone or chiefly in those questions which concern the fundamentals of the catholick doctrine : which were those contained in the rule of faith , delivered to all that were to be baptized . suppose men now should stretch this rule beyond the limits assigned it by vincentius , what security can there be from him that it shall be a certain rule , who confined it within such narrow bounds ? not that i think , his rules of no use at all now ; no , i think them to be of admirable use and great importance to christianity , if truly understood and applyed . i.e. when any persons take upon them to impose any thing upon others as a necessary matter of faith to be believed by them , we can have no better rules of judgement in this case than those of vincentius are , viz. antiquity , vniversality and consent ; and whatsoever cannot be proved by these rules ought to be rejected by all christians . to make this plain , the ancient creeds we allow on both sides to have been universally received by the catholick church ; but now the church of rome adds new articles to be believed , we desire to put the whole matter upon this issue : let the popes supremacy , the roman churches infallibility , the doctrines of transubstantiation , purgatory , &c. be proved by as universal consent of antiquity as the articles of the creed are , and then let them charge us with heresie if we reject them . but we say the measure of heresie in the ancient church was the rejecting the rule of faith universally received among christians , this rule of faith , we stand to , and say no other can be made upon any pretence whatsoever , as vincentius at large proves ; but what ever things are obtruded on the belief of christians , which want that vniversal consent of antiquity , which the rule of faith had , we are bound by vincentius , from plain scripture , to shun them as prophane novelties and corruptions of the christian faith. these rules therefore are not barely allowed , but pleaded for by us , in the test of articles of faith , as to which vincentius tells us , if not the only , yet the chief use of them is . . but suppose the question be not , concerning the express articles of this rule of faith , but concerning the sense and meaning of them , how then are we to find out the consent of antiquity ? for they might all agree in the words and yet have a different notion of the things . as petavius at large proves , that there was an ancient tradition for the substance of the doctrine of the trinity , and yet he confesses that most of the writers of the ancient church did differ in their explication of it from that , which was only allowed by the council of nice : and he grants , that arius did follow the opinion of many of the ancients in the main of his doctrine , who were guilty of the same error that he was before the matter was throughly discussed . here now arises the greatest difficulty to me in this point of tradition ; the usefulness of it , i am told , is for explaining the sense of scripture : but there begins a great controversie in the church about the explication of the doctrine of the trinity , i desire to know whether vincentius his rules will help us here ? it is pleaded by st. hierome and others , that the writers of the church might err in this matter , or speak unwarily in it before the matter came to be throughly discussed ; if so , how comes the testimony of erroneous or unwary writers to be the certain means of giving the sense of scripture ? and in most of the controversies of the church this way hath been used to take off the testimony of persons , who writ before the controversie began , and spake differently of the matter in debate . i do not deny the truth of the allegation in behalf of those persons ; but to my understanding it plainly shews the incompetency of tradition for giving a certain sense of scripture , when that tradition is to be taken from the writers of the foregoing ages : and if this had been the only way of confuting arius , it is a great question how he could ever have been condemned , if petavius or st. hierome say true ? but since a general council hath determined the contrary to the opinion of these writers before , which council hath been received by the universal church , i will not deny that they had better opportunities of knowing what the sense of the ancient church was , when so many writings were extant which are now lost , than we can have at this distance ; and therefore we yield all submission to a council of that nature and proceeding in that manner which that of nice did ; who did not meerly determine that controversie by the number of writers on their side before them , but by comparing the opinions afterwards with the rule of scriptures ; and in this regard we acknowledge a great reverence due to the decrees of such general councils as that was . therefore next to the rule of faith we allow a great veneration to the determinations of lawful general councils universally received ; which vincentius himself pleads for : but supposing no general councils or such which are not allowed , or received for such ; we are yet to enquire into the ways of finding out catholick tradition , which may interpret scripture . for this end he proposes another means which is , the gathering together the opinions of those fathers alone ; who living holily , wisely and constantly in the faith and communion of the catholick church have died in that faith , or else for it . but still with this reserve , that what either all or many of them manifestly , frequently and constantly , as it were by a council of them , have confirmed by their receiving , holding , and delivering of it , that ought to be held for undoubted , certain and firm ; but whatsoever any one though holy and learned , though a bishop , confessour or martyr , hath held against the opinion of others that ought not to be looked on as the judgement of the church , but as his own private opinion , and therefore not to be followed . which words i shall not examine with all the severity that some have done , for then the proving these conditions to have been observed by any one person would require more pains , and be less capable of resolution than the matter it self is ; but i say , that in most of the controversies this day in the christian world , it may be much more satisfactory to examine the merits of the cause than the integrity of the witnesses , these conditions being supposed . and yet after all this , we must not misunderstand him , as though this way would serve to confute all heresies ; for he tells us yet farther . . this course can only hold in some new and upstart heresies i.e. in case of the pretence of some new revelation when men pretend to some special grace without humane industry to discover some divine truth , not known before ; but in case of ancient and inveterate heresies ; he saith we have no way to deal with them , but either only by scripture , or else by plain decrees of general councils , for when heresies have been of long continuance , then , saith he , we may have ground to suspect they have not dealt fairly with the testimonies of ancient times . and thus we see what vincentius hath offered towards the resolution of this great question , how we may be sure of the certain sense of scripture in controverted places ; wherein is nothing contained but what we are willing to stand to ; and very far from the least supposition of any infallibility in the present guides of the church for that end . thus far i have taken the pains to search into the opinion of the primitive church in this important controversie ; which i might carry yet farther , if it were at all needful . the substance of what is delivered by them is this , that if any controversie arise in the church concerning the sense of scripture , if the persons do not allow the scripture , then we are to proceed by the best means we can have without it , viz. the tradition of apostolical churches from the beginning ; if they do allow the scripture then we are to examine and compare places of scripture with all the care and judgement that may be . if after all this , the dispute still continues , then if it be against the ancient rule of faith universally received , that is a sufficient prescription against any opinion ; if not against the rule of faith in express words , but about the sense of it , then if ancient general councils have determined it which had greater opportunities of knowing the sense of the apostolical church than we , it is reasonable we should yield to them ; but if there have been none such , then the unanimous consent of fathers is to be taken , so it be in some late and upstart heresies , which men pretend to have by revelation or some special grace of god. now either all these means were sufficient or not to find out the sense of scripture , if not , then the ancient church was wholly defective and wanted any certain way of finding out the sense of scripture ; if these were sufficient , then there is no necessity of infallibility in the guides of the church to give us a certain sense of scripture : which was the thing to be proved . but n. o. towards the conclusion of his book produces st. augustin for the churches infallibility , in delivering the sense of scripture in obscure places ; which being contrary to what i have already said concerning him , must be examined before i conclude this discourse about the sense of scripture . the place is out of his answer to cresconius concerning the obscure point of rebaptization ; in these words , since the holy scripture cannot deceive , let whosoever is in fear of being deceived by the obscurity of this question , consult the same church about it , which church the holy scripture doth without all ambiguity demonstrate . and before , the truth of the holy scriptures is held by us in this matter , when we do that which hath pleased the vniversal church , which the authority of the scripture does commend , &c. all which is false and said to no purpose saith n. o. if the scripture be not clear in this , that this church can determine nothing in such important contests contrary to the verity of the scriptures , and that we ought to give credit to what she decides ; for then it would not be true , what he says the truth of the same scripture in this matter is held by us : and he who is in fear of being deceived by the obscurity of this question , is no way relieved in following the sentence of the churth . to which i answer , that st. augustin doth not suppose , that men cannot attain to any certainty of the the sense of scripture in this matter without the churches infallibility ; for , he saith , in the chapter preceding , that in this matter we follow the most certain authority of canonical scriptures ; but he puts the case that no certain example could be produced out of scripture , then he saith , they had the truth of the scriptures when they do that which pleased the vniversal church , &c. for the explaining st. augustins meaning , we are to consider , that there were two controversies then on foot in the church with the donatists , the one concerning rebaptization , the other concerning the church the former he looks upon as more intricate and obscure , by reason not only of the doubtfulness of scripture , but the authority of about seventy bishops of africa , who had determined for it , among whom st. cyprian was chief , which we see in all his disputes with the donatisis on this subject he is very much perplexed with ; therefore st. augustin finding that controversie very troublesome , was willing to bring it to that issue , that what the catholick church after so much discussing the point had agreed upon should be received as the truth . by this means the dispute would be brought to that other question , which he thought much more easie , viz. which was the true church , the catholick or the donatists : but by no means doth st. augustin hereby intend to make the churches authority to resolve all doubts concernig scriptures ; but he thought it much easier to prove by scripture which was the true church , than whether rebaptization were lawful or not . and accordingly his very next words are , but if you doubt whether the vniversal church be that which the scripture commends , i will load you with many and most manifest testimonies of scripture to that end . which is the design of his book of the vnity of the church : wherein he shews , that those testimonies of scripture which speak of the universality of the church , are very plain and clear : and needed no interpretation at all , that in this case we are not to regard what donatus , or parmenianus , or pontius hath said ; for neither , saith he , are we to yield to catholick bishops themselves , if they be at any time so much deceived as to hold what is contrary to canonical scriptures . by which it is evident that he supposed no infallibility in the guides of the church . and in terms he asserts , that the church is to be proved by nothing but plain scriptures , neither by the authority of optatus , or st. ambrose , or innumerable bishops , nor councils , nor miracles , nor visions and revelations , ( whatever n. o. thinks of them ) now st. augustin supposing there was much less ambiguity in scripture in the controversie of the church than in that of rebaptization , he endeavours to bring them to a resolution in the other point for the clearing of this : and so he only pursues the method laid down in the books of christian doctrine , to make use of plainer places of scripture to give light to the darker . and when they were convinced by scripture that the catholick church was the true church of christ , he doth not question but they would follow that which was the sentence of the catholick church . but here lyes the main difficulty , on what account the sentence of the church was to be followed ? in order to the resolution of it , we must take notice of these things . . that all the proofs which st. augustin brings for the church do relate only to the extent and vniversality of it , and not to any infallibility that is promised to it ; as will easily appear to any one that will read his discourses on that subject against the donatists . . that he asserts no infallibility in the highest authority of the church ; which in many places of his books of baptism against the donatists he makes to be a plenary or general council ; whose authority , he saith , was to be preferred before that of st. cyprian , or any particular councils either in his time , or before it ; which he calls the authority and decrees of the vniversal church . so that we see he resolves all the authority of the church in this matter into that of a general council : ( whether that of arles , or nice is not to my purpose to enquire ) and we shall then see what his opinion is of the churches infallibility by that which he delivers of general councils ; as well as any other church authority compared with the scriptures , in these remarkable words . who knows not that the sacred canonical scripture is contained within its certain bounds , and is so far to be preferred before all latter writings of bishops that there can be no doubt or dispute at all made , whether that be true or right which is contained therein ; but all latter writings of bishops which have been or are written , since the canon of scripture hath been confirmed , may be corrected if in any thing they err from the truth , either by the wiser discourse of any more skilful person , or the weightier authority of other bishops , or the prudence of more learned men , or by councils : and even councils themselves that are provincial yield without dispute to those which are general , and called out of all the christian world ; and of these general councils the former are often amended by the latter , when by some farther tryal of things that which was shut is laid open , and that which was hidden is made known without any swelling of sacrilegious pride , or stifness of arrogancy , or contentin of envy ; but with holy humility , catholick peace and christian charity . can any one that reads this excellent testimony of st. augustin delivered in this same matter , ever imagine he could so plainly contradict himself ; as to assert the churches infallibility in one place and destroy it in another ? would he assert that all councils how general soever may be amended by following councils , and yet bind men to believe that the decrees of the former councils do contain the unalterable will of god ? a lesser person than st. augustin would never thus directly contradict himself , and that about the very same controversie , which words of his cannot be understood of unlawful councils , of matters of fact or practice , but do refer to the great question then in debate about rebaptizing hereticks ; and hereby he takes off the great plea , the donatists made from the authority of st. cyprian and his council , which they continually urged for themselves . . he grants , that the arguments drawn from the churches authority are but humane , and that satisfaction is to be taken from the scriptures in this controversie . for mentioning the obscurity of this question , and the great debates that had been about it before the donatists time among great and good men , and diverse resolutions of councils and the settlement of it at last by a plenary council of the whole world ; but lest , saith he , i should seem to make use only of humane arguments , i produce certain testimonies out of the gospel , by which , god willing , i demonstrate how true and agreeable to his will the doctrine and practice of the catholick church is . and else where he appeals not to the judgement of men , but to the lords ballance , viz. to his judgement delivered in scripture , and in this same case when he was urged by the authority of cyprian , he saith , there are no writings they have not liberty to judge of , but those of scripture , and by them they are to judge of all others , and what is agreeable to them they receive , what is not they reject , though written by persons of never so great authority . and after all this is it possible to believe that st. augustin should make the churches decree in a general council infallible ? no : the utmost by a careful consideration of his mind in this matter that i can find , is ; that in a question of so doubtful and obscure a nature as that was , which had been so long bandied in the churches of africa , and from thence spread over all the churches of the christian world , it was a reasonable thing to presume that what the whole christian world did consent in was the truth , not upon the account of infallibility , but the reasonable supposition that all the churches of the christian world , would not consent in a thing repugnant to any apostolical doctrine or tradition . and so st. augustins meaning is the same with vincentius lerinensis as to the universal attestation of the christian church in a matter of tradition ; being declared by the decree of a general council , and that decree universally received but only by the litigant parties in africa . to which purpose it is observable that he so often appeals to the vniversal consent of christians in this matter ; after it had been so throughly discussed and considered , by the most wise and disinteressed persons , and that consent declared by a plenary council before himself was born . so that if authority were to be relyed upon in this obscure controversie , he saith , the authority of the universal church was to be preferred , before that of several councils in africa , of the bishops and particularly st. cyprian who met in them . and whereas st. cyprian had slighted tradition in this matter , christ having called himself truth and not custom , st. augustin replys to him ; that the custom of the church having been always so and continuing after such opposition and confirmed by a general council , and after examination of the reasons and testimonies of scripture on both sides , it may be now said , that we follow what truth hath declared . wherein we see with what modesty and upon what grounds he declares his mind , which at last comes to no more than vincentius his rules of antiquity , vniversality and consent . especially in such a matter as this was , which had nothing but tradition to be pleaded for it , the apostles , having determined nothing of either side , in their books as st augustin himself at last confesses in this matter . the most then that can be made of the testimony alledged out of st. augustin is this , that in a matter of so doubtful and obscure a nature wherein the apostles have determined nothing in their writings , we are to believe that to be the truth , which the universal church of christ agreed in those times , when the consent of the universal church was so well known by frequent discussion of the case and coming at last to a resolution in a general council . in such a case as this , i agree to what st. augustin saith , and think a man very much relieved by following so evident a consent of the universal church : not by vertue of any infallibility , but the unreasonableness of believing so many , so wise , so disinteressed persons should be deceived . let the same evidences be produced for the consent of the vniversal church from the apostolical times in the matters in dispute between our church and that of rome , and the controversie of infallibility may be laid aside ; for such an universal consent of the christian church i look upon as the most authentick interpreter of holy scripture in doubtful and obscure places . but let them never think to fob us off , with the consent of the roman faction for the vniversal church , nor of some latter ages , for a tradition from apostolical times , nor of a packed company of bishops for a truly general council . and thus much may now serve to clear that important controversie about the sense of scripture in doubtful places . the last thing to be considered is , whether the same arguments which overthrow infallibility , do likewise destroy all church-authority ? for this is by n. o. frequently objected against me ; for , he saith , thus it happens more than once in these principles laid down by me , that in forward a zeal in demolishing the one , viz. church infallibility , the other is also dangerously undermined , viz. church-authority . and therefore out of his singular regard to the good of our church , he saith , it concerns my superior to look to it , whether their churches and their own authority suffers no detriment from my principles , and , again , he saith , my principles against infallibility conclude , the uselessness of any ecclesiastical authority to teach men , as of an infallible to assure men of the truth of those things , which by using only their own sincere endeavour they may know without them . and lastly , he saith , my principles afford no effectual way or means of suppressing or convicting any schism , sect or heresie , or reducing them either to submission of judgement or silence . and therefore he desires the prudent to consider ; whether the authority of the church of england is not much debilitated and brought into contempt , and daily like to wane more and more by this new taken up way of its defence . my answer is , that i have carefully examined and searched my principles and find no such gunpowder in them for blowing up authority either of church or state. for all that i can discover , they are very innocent and harmless ; and if all other mens had been so , we had never heard so much talk of this way , of undermining and blowing up . but is it not a pleasant thing to see , all of a sudden , what zeal these men discover for the preservation of our churches authority ? alas good men ! it grieves them at the very heart , to see the authority of our church weakned and that by its own members . what would not they do for the strengthening and upholding of it ? what pity it is , such a church should not stand , whose very enemies take such care for its preservation ; and are so ready to discover the pl●ts of its own children against it ? b●t to be ●ure , there is mischief intended when enemies discover it ; not by those whom they accuse , but by the honest informers ; who would be content to hold their peace , if they thought they could not sow mischief by pretending to discover it . it is a pretty plot to make those who design to defend our church to be the underminers of it , and the most professed enemies its surest friends . but such plots are too fine to hold , and too thin not to be seen through . how is it i beseech n. o. that my principles undermine all church authority ? have i any where made the church a meer shadow , and an insignificant cypher , a society depending only on the pleasure of men for its subsistence and authority ? this had been indeed to the purpose , but not the least word tending that way can be drawn out of any principles of mine . for i verily believe that the church is a society instituted by christ himself , and invested with authority necessary for its government and preservation . but though i cannot deny such an authority i may render it wholly useless . i cannot conceive any such malignant influence in any principles of mine , but if there be , it must be from one of these things . . either because i deny infallibility in the guides of the church . or . because i say that the scriptures are plain in things necessary to salvation . or . because i deny the authority of the church of rome . or . because i am not for such an effectual way of suppressing sects and heresies as is in use in the roman church . but i hope to make it appear that none of these do in the least tend to weaken , or bring into contempt the church of engl●nds authority , nor the just authority of any church in the world. . not the denial of infallibility . this n. o. seems to suppose to be the very faux in the gunpowder plot , the instrument of setting all on fire . but is there any thing peculiar to my principles herein ? have not all who have written against the church of rome opposed the pretence of infallibility ? how then come my principles to be of so mischievous a nature above others ? but i pray , sir , are authority and infallibility all one in your account ? we suppose that magistrates and parents , and masters have all of them an unquestionable authority but i never heard yet of any man that said they wre infallible : or that there was no ground to obey them , if they were not . why may we not then allow any authority belonging to the governours of the church , and yet think it possible for them to be deceived ? is this a sufficient reason for any man to cast off his subjection to his prince , because it 's possible he may require something unlawful ? or to disobey his parents , because they do not sit in an infallible chair ? or to slight his master , because he is not pope ? these are strange ways of arguing about matters of religion , which are ridiculous in any other case . if the possibility of being deceived destroys no other authority in the world , why should it do that of the church ? the magistrate does not lose his authority though we say we are to obey god rather than men , and consequently to examine whether the laws of men are not repugnant to the laws of god , which implys that he may require what it is our duty not to do . the authority of parents is not destroyed , because in some cases we are bound to disobey them , when they command men to destroy or rise up in arms against their soveraign . how comes it then to pass , that all church-authority is immediately gone , if we do but suppose a possibility of errour in those which have it ? but it may be said it is their office to be guides , and if we do not follow them absolutely , we renounce them from being our guides . to which i answer , there are two sorts of persons that stand in need of guides , the blind and the ignorant ; the blind must follow their guides because of an incapacity of seeing their way , the ignorant for want of instruction . yet neither of these are bound to believe their guides infallible , and to follow them at all adventures . for even the blind by their own sad experience of frequent falling into ditches or knocking their heads against posts may have reason to question , if not the skill , yet the sincerity of their guides , and though they must have some , may seek new ones . the ignorant follow their guides only upon the opinion of their skill and integrity ; and when they see reason to question these , they know of no obligation to follow their conduct over rocks and precipices ; if they are so careless of their own welfare , others are not bound to follow them therein . but we are not to presume persons so wholly ignorant , but they have some general rules by which to judge of the skill and fidelity of their guides . if a person commits himself to the care of a pilot to carry him to constantinople because of his ignorance of the sea , should this man still rely upon his authority , if he carried him to find out the north west passage ? no : though he may not know the particular coasts so well ; yet he knows the east and west , the north and south from each other . if a stranger should take a guide to conduct him from london to york , although he may not think fit to dispute with him at every doubtful turning , yet is he bound to follow him when he travels all day with the sun in his face ? for although he doth not know the direct road , yet he knows that he is to go northward . the meaning of all this is , that the supposition of guides in religion doth depend upon some common principles of religion that are or may be known to all , and some precepts so plain that every christian without any help may know them to be his duty ; within the compass of these plain and known duties , lyes the capacity of persons judging of their guides ; if they carry them out of this beaten way , they have no reason to rely upon them in other things : if they keep themselves carefully within those bounds , and shew great integrity therein , then in doubtful and obscure things they may with more safety rely upon them . but if they tell them they must put out their eyes to follow them the better , or if they kindly allow them to keep their eyes in their heads , yet they must believe them against their eye-sight , if they perswade them to break plain commands of god and to alter the institutions of christ , what reason can there be that any should commit themselves to the absolute conduct of such unfaithful guides ? and this is not to destroy all authority of faithful guides , for they may be of great use for the direction of unskilful persons in matters that are doubtful and require skill to resolve them , but it is only to suppose that their authority is not absolute nor their direction infallible . but if we take away this infallible direction from the guides of the church , what authority is there left them ? as much as ever god gave them , and if they will not be contented with that , we cannot help it ; and that it may appear how vain and frivolous these exceptions are , i shall now shew what real authority is still left in the governours of the church , though infallibility be taken away . and that lyes in three things . . an authority of inflicting censures upon offenders ; which is commonly called the power of the keys , or of receiving into and excluding out of the communion of the church . this the church was invested with by christ himself , and is the necessary consequence of the being and institution of a christian society , which cannot be preserved in its purity and peace without it . which authority belongs to the governours of the church , and however the church in some respects be incorporated with the common-wealth in a christian state , yet its fundamental rights remain distinct from it : of which this is one of the chief to receive into and exclude out of the church such persons which , according to the laws of a christian society , are fit to be taken in or shut out . . an authority of making rules and canons about matters of order and decency in the church . not meerly in the necessary circumstances of time and place , and such things the contrary to which imply a natural indecency ; but in continuing and establishing those ancient rites of the christian church , which were practised in the early times of christianity , and are in themselves of an indifferent nature . which authority of the church hath been not only asserted in the articles of our church , but strenuously defended against the trifling objections of her enemies , from scripture , antiquity and reason . and i freely grant , not only that such an authority is in it self reasonable and just ; but that in such matters required by a lawful authority ( such as that of our church is ) there is an advantage on the side of authority , against a scrupulous conscience , which ought to over-rule the practice of such who are the members of that church . . an authority of proposing matters of faith and directing men in religion . which is the proper authority of teachers , and guides , and instructers of others ; which may be done several ways , as by particular instruction of doubtful persons , who are bound to make use of the best helps they can , among which that of their guides is the most ready and useful , and who are obliged to take care of their souls , and therefore to give the most faithful advice and counsel to them . besides this , there is a publick way of instructing by discourses grounded upon scripture to particular congregations , assembled together for the worship of god in places set apart for that end and therefore called churches . and those who are duly appointed for this work , and ordained by those whose office is to ordain , viz. the bishops , have an authority to declare what the mind and will of god is , contained in scripture in order to the salvation and edification of the souls of men . but besides this , we may consider the bishops and representative clergy of a church as met together for reforming any abuses crept into the practice of religion or errours in doctrine ; and in this case we assert that such a synod or convocation hath the power and authority within it self ( especially having all the ancient rights of a patriarchal church ) when a more general consent cannot be obtained to publish and declare what those errours & abuses are , & to do as much as in them lyes to reform them , viz. by requiring a consent to such propositions as are agreed upon for that end , of those who are to enjoy the publick offices of teaching and instructing others . not to the end that all those propositions should be believed as articles of faith ; but because no reformation can be effected , if persons may be allowed to preach and officiate in the church in a way contrary to the design of such a reformation . and this is now that authority we attribute to the governours of our church , although we allow no infallibility to them . and herein we proceed in a due mean between the extremes of robbing the church of all authority of one side ; and advancing it to infallibility on the other . but we cannot help the weakness of those mens understanding , who cannot apprehend that any such thing as authority should be left in a church , if we deny infallibility . other diseases may be cured , but natural incapacity cannot . . not , the making scriptures plain to all sober enquirers in matters necessary to salvation . this is that principle which n. o. makes such horrible out-crys about , as though it were the foundation of all the heresies and sects in the world. this , he saith , makes all ecclesiastical authority useless ; for what need is there of bishops , presbyters , or any ecclesiastical pastors among protestants , as to the office of teaching or expounding these writings , if these in all necessaries are clear to all persons , who desire to know the meaning of them : but not content with this modest charge in comparison , in another treatise ; he makes this the very heighth of fanaticism , in spight of mother iuliana and their legendary saints : because , forsooth , this is to ground all our religion upon our own fancies , enquiring into the true sense of divine revelation ; and therefore , good man , seems troubled at it , that he can by no means in the world absolve me from being not only a fanatick , but a teacher of fanaticism . in earnest , it was happily found out , to return this heavy charge back upon my self with so much rage and violence ; ( for although n. o. be a modest man , yet s. c. is a meer fury ) for not meerly fanaticism , pure putid fanaticism follows from this principle , fanaticism without vizard or disguise , and all this demonstratively proved from this principle , but all our church is immediately gone with it ; men may talk of dangerous plots for undermining and blowing up of towns and forts and parliaments , but what are all those to the blowing up a whole church at once ? for since that train of my principles hath been laid , nothing like the old church of engl●nd hath been seen . it is true , there are the same bishops , the same authority , the same liturgy and ceremonies , the same ●●●achers and officers that were ; but what are all these to the church of england ? for from hence it follows ( if we believe s. c. ) that the ●overnours of our church have no authority to teach truth , or to condemn er●●urs ; and a●l the people are become prophets , and all their articles , constitutions and ordinances have been composed and enjoyned by an usurped authority . very sad consequences truly ! but like deep plots they lye very far out of sight . for to my understanding , not one of these dismal things follows any more from my principles , than from proving that s. c. and n. o. both stand for the same person . which will easily appear to any one ●●e that will but consider . . the intention of those principles . . the just consequence of them . . the intention of those principles ; which was plainly to lay down the foundations of a christians faith living in the communion of our church ; ( which is expressed in as perspicuous terms before them as may be ; ) and to shew that the roman churches infallibility is no necessary foundation of faith. now , this being the design of those principles , to what purpose should i have gone about therein , to have stated the nature and bounds of the authority of particular churches . i no where in the least exclude the use of all means and due helps of guides and others for the understanding the sense of scripture ; and i no where mention them ; because my business was only about the foundation of faith , and whether infallibility was necessary for that or no ? if i have proved it was not , i have gained my design ; for then those who deny the church of romes infallibility may never the less have a sure foundation , or solid principles to build their faith upon . now to what purpose in an account of the principles of faith should i mention those things , which we do not build our faith upon , i mean the authority of our guides ; for although we allow them all the usefulness of helps ; yet those are no more to be mentioned in the principles of resolving faith , than eulids master was to be mentioned in his demonstrations . for although he might learn his skill from him ; yet the force of his demonstrations did not depend upon his authority . i hope it now appears , how far i am from making church-authority useless ; but i still say our faith is not to be resolved into it , and therefore is not to be reckoned as a principle or foundation of faith. to that end it is sufficient to prove . that men in the due use of means , whom i call sober enquirers , may without any infallible church , believe the scriptures , and understand what is necessary to their salvation herein : if this may be , then i say it follows ( princ. . ) that there can be no necessity supposed of any infallible society of men , either to attest or explain these writings , among christians . not one word that takes away the use of authority in the church , but only of infallibility ; but it may be said that although it might not be my intention , yet it may be the just consequence of the principles themselves . therefore i shall now prove that no consequence drawn from them can infer this . for what if all those things which are necessary to salvation are plain in scripture , to all that sincerely endeavour to understand them , doth it hence follow that there can be no just authority in a church , no use of persons to instruct others , must all the people become prophets and no bounds be set to the liberty of prophesying ? these are bad consequences ; but the comfort is , they are not true . if i should say that the necessary rules for a mans health are so plainly laid down by hippocrates , that every one that will take the pains may understand them ; doth this make the whole profession of physick useless , or license every man to practise physick that will , or make it needless to have any professours in that faculty ? when the philosophers of old did so frequently inculcate that the necessaries for life were few and easie ; did this make all political government useless , and give every man power to do what he pleased ? men of any common understanding would distinguish between the necessaries of life and civil society ; so would any one but s. c. or n. o. of the necessaries to salvation , and to the government of the church ; for men must be considered first as christians , and then as christians united together : as in civil societies they are to be considered first as men , and then as cives ; to say , that a man hath all that is necessary to preserve his life as a man , doth not overthrow the constitution of a society , although it implys that he might live without it : so when men are considered barely as christians no more ought to be thought necessary for them as such , but what makes them capable of salvation ; but if we consider them as joyning together in a christian society , then many other things are necessary for that end : for then there must be authority in some and subjection in others , there must be orders and constitutions , whereby all must be kept within their due bounds , and there must be persons appointed to instruct the ignorant , to satisfy the doubting , to direct the unskilful , and to help the weak . it belongs to such a society not barely to provide for necessity but safety , and not meerly the safety of particular persons but of it self ; which cannot be done without prudent orders , fixing the bounds of mens imployments , and not suffering every pretender to visions and revelations to set up for a new sect , or which is all one a new order of religious men . how comes it now to pass that by saying that men , considered barely as christians , may understand all that is necessary to their salvation , i do overthrow all authority of a church and make all men prophets ? do i in the least mention mens teaching others , or being able themselves to put a difference , between what is so necessary and what not ; or doth s. c. suppose that all that understand what is necessary to salvation have no need to be ruled and governed ? if he thinks so , i assure him i am quite of another opinion , and do make no question but that government ought to be preserved in a church , though the necessaries to salvation be known to all in it ; and so i suppose doth any one else that in the least considers what he says . by this we see , that s. c ' s. recrimination of fanaticism on our church , by vertue of this principle is as feeble as the defence he hath made for his own , of which he may hear in due time . but if there be any fanaticism in this principle , we have the concurrence of the greatest and wisest persons of the christian church in it : two of them especially have in terms said as much as i have done , st. augustin in his books of christian doctrine already mentioned : and st. chrysostome in as plain words as may be . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . all things are plain and right in the holy scriptures ; all necessary things are manifest . let s. c. now charge all the dreadful consequences of this principle on st. chrysostome , and tell him that he destroyed all church-authority , and laid the foundation for the height of fanaticism ? nay s. chrys●stome goes much higher than i do , for he saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. if i had made the guides of the church so useless as st. chrysostome seems to do in these words what passionate and hideous out-crys would , s. c. have made ? and by this let the skill or ingenuity of s. c. be tryed , who says , that i cannot find out one single short sentence in antiquity to support the main pillar of my religion , which he supposes this principle to be ; and for the finding out the sense of scripture without the help of infallibility , i have produced more out of antiquity in this discourse , than either he or his whole partie will be able to answer . . not the denying the authority of the church of rome . which i must do till i see some better proofs for it , than i have ever yet done . but how doth this , destroy all authority in a church ? can there be none , but what is derived from rome ? i do not think , i do in the least diminish the kings authority , by denying that he derives it from the cham of tartary , or the great mogol : although they may challenge the lordship of the whole earth to themselves : and may pretend very plausible reasons that it would be much more for the quiet and conveniency of mankind to be all under one universal monarch , and that none have so fair a pretence to it , as they that have challenged the right of it to themselves : and yet for all this , i do verily believe the king hath an unquestionable right to his kingdom , and a just authority over all his subjects . the time was when the first of genesis would serve to prove the popes title , and the suns ruling by day was thought a clear argument for his supremacy ; but the world is now altered and all the wit and subtility that hath been since used hath not been able to make good that crackt title of universal pastorship , which the bishops of rome have taken to themselves . but although we disown the popes authority as an unjust usurpation , we assert and plead for the authority of the church and the bishops who are placed therein , who derive their power to govern the church from christ and not from the pope . and i dare appeal to any person , whether the asserting the bishops deriving their authority from christ or from the pope , be the better way of defending their power ? we are not now disputing what authority were fit to be entrusted in the popes hands , supposing all other differences composed , and that things were in the same state wherein they were in the times of the . general councils ; in which case , it ought to be considered , how far it might be convenient to give way to such an authority so apt to grow extravagant , and which hath been stretched so very far beyond what the canons allowed , that it hath challenged infallibility to it self ; but the thing at present under debate , is , whether the disallowing the papal hierarchy doth overthrow all authority in the episcopal ; which is in effect to ask , whether there be any other power besides the popes in the church ? for if there be any other , the denying the popes authority over us cannot in the least diminish the just authority of bishops . the only considerable question in this case , is , whether the rejecting that hierarchy which was in being at the the time of the reformation , doth not make way for the peoples rejecting the authority of our bishops , and consequently no authority in the church can be maintained , unless we again yield to the papal authority . this i suppose to be n. o. meaning , when he tells us by church-authority he means that superior and more comprehensive body of the ecclesiastical hierarchy ; which in any dissent and division of the clergy , according to the church canons ought to be obeyed . and any particular church divided from this more universal cannot with the least pretence of reason challenge submission from her subjects , since she her self ( and particularly the church of england ) refused the same to all the authority extant in the world , when she separated her self . to this i answer , that the church of england in reforming her self did not oppose any just authority then extant in the world. it is to no purpose to make s●ch loud clamours about our churches refusing submission to all the authority then extant in the world , unless there be better evidence produced for it , than we have yet seen . for it is very well known that the dispute was then concerning the popes supremacy over our church , which we have all along asserted to have been a notorious encroachment upon the liberties of our church . and the popes usurpations were 〈◊〉 injurious both to the ecclesiastical and civil government , that those who adhered to the religion of the roman church yet agreed to the rejecting that authority which he challenged in england . which is sufficiently known to have been the beginning of the breach , between the two churches . afterwards , when it was thus agreed that the bishop of rome had no such authority as he challenged , what should hinder our church from proceeding in the best way it could for the reformation of it self ? for the popes supremacy being cast out as an usurpation , our church was thereby declared to be a free church , having the power of government within it self . and what method of proceeding could be more reasonable in this case , than by the advice of the governours of the church and by the concurrence of civil authority to publish such rules and articles , according to which religion was to be professed and the worship of god setled in england ? and this is that which n. o. calls refusing submission to all the authority then extant in the world ; was all the authority then extant , shut up in the popes breast ? was there no due power of governing left , because his unjust power was cast off , and that first by bishops , who in other things adhered to the roman church ? but they proceeded farther and altered many things in religion against the consent of the more vniversal church . it is plain since our church was declared to be free they had a liberty of enquiring and determining things fittest to be believed and practised ; this then could not be her fault . but in those things they decreed , they went contrary to the consent of the vniversal church : here we are now come to the merits of the cause ; and we have from the beginning of the reformation defended , that we rejected nothing but innovations , and reformed nothing but abuses . but the church thought otherwise of them . what church i pray ? the primitive and apostolical ? that we have always appealed to and offered to be tryed by . the truly catholick church of all ages ? that we utterly deny to have agreed in any one thing against the church of england . but the plain english of all is , the church of rome was against the church of england ; and no wonder , for the church of england was against the church of rome ; but we know of no fault we are guilty of therein ; nor any obligation of submission to the commands of that church . and n. o. doth not say , that we opposed the whole church , but the more vniversal church , i. e. i suppose the greater number of persons at that time . but doth he undertake to make this good , that the greater number of christians , then in the world , did oppose the church of england ? how doth he know that the eastern , armenian , abyssin and greek churches did agree with the church of rome against us ? no : that is not his meaning ; but by the more vniversal church , he fairly understands no more but the church of rome . and that we did oppose the doctrine and practices of the church of rome we deny not ; but we utterly deny that to be the catholick church ; or that we opposed any lawful authority in denying submission to it . but according to the canons of the church we are to obey , in any dissent or division of the clergy , the superior and more comprehensive body of the ecclesiastical hierarchy . what he means by this , i do not well understand , either it must be the authority of the pope and councils of the roman church , or a general council of all the catholick church . for the first , we owe no obedience to them , for the second , there was no such thing then in the world , and therefore could not be opposed . and for the canons of the catholick councils before the breaches of christendom , no church hath been more guilty of a violation of them , than the church of rome , since the rules of the fathers have been turned into the royalties of s. peter . we are no enemies to the ancient patriarchal government of the christian church , and are far more for preserving the dignity of it , than the roman church can be : for we should think it a happy state of the christian church , if all the patriarchs did enjoy their ancient power and priviledges , and all christendom would consent to a truly free and general council ; which we look on as the best expedient on earth , for composing the differences of the christian world , if it might be had . but we cannot endure to be abused by meer names of titular patriarchs , but real servants and pensionaries of the popes , with combinations of interested parties instead of general councils , with the pleasure of popes instead of ancient canons . let them reduce the ancient government of the church within its due bounds ; let the bishop of rome content himself with the priviledges he then en●oyed ; let debates be free and bishops assemble with an equal proportion out of all churches of christendom ; and if we then oppose so gener●l a consent of the christian church , let them charge us with not submitting to all the authority extant of the world . but since , the state of christendom hath been so much divided , that a truly general council is next to an impossible thing , the church must be reformed by its parts , and every free church , enjoying the rights of a patriarchal see , hath according to the canons of the church a sufficient power to reform all abuses within it self , when a more general consent cannot be obtained . by this we may see how very feeble this charge is of destroying all church-authority by refusing submission to the roman hierarchy : and how very pityful an advantage can from hence be made by the dissenting parties among us , who decry that patriarchal and ancient government as anti-christian which we allow as prudent and christian. but of the difference of these two case , i have spoken already . . but yet n. o. saith , my principles afford no effectual way or means in this church of suppressing or convicting any schism , sect or heresie , or reducing them either to submission of judgement or silence : therefore my principles are dest●●ctive to all church-authority . to which i answer , . that the design of my principles was to lay down the foundations of faith , and not the means of suppressing heresies . if i had laid down the foundations of peace and left all persons to their own judgements without any regard to authority , this might have been justly objected against me ; but according to this way , it might have been objected to aristotle that he was an enemy to civil government , because he doth not lay down the rules of it in his logick , or that hippocrates favoured the chymists and mountebanks , because he saith not a word of the colledge of physitians . if i had said any thing about the authority of particular churches , or the ways of suppressing sects ; then how insultingly had i been asked ; what is all this to the foundations of faith ? excellent protestant principles of faith ! they begin now to resolve faith into the authority of their own church : or else to what end is this mentioned , where nothing is pretended to but laying down the foundations on which protestants do build their faith ? but although there be no way of escaping impertinent objections , yet it is some satisfaction to ones self to have given no occasion for them . . i would know what he understands by his effectual means of suppressing sects or heresies . we are sure the meer authority of their church hath been no more effectual means , than that of ours hath been ; but there is another means they use which is far more effectual viz. the inquisition . this in truth is all the effectual means they have above us ; but god keep us from so barbarous and diabolical a means of suppressing schisms ; the sanbenits have not more pictures of devils upon them , than the inquisition it self hath of their spirit in it ; however that gracious pope paul . attributed the settling of it in spain to the inspiration of the holy ghost ; not that holy ghost certainly , that came down from heaven upon the apostles ; but that which was conveyed in a portmantue from rome to the council of trent . but if this be the effectual means he understands , i hope he doth not think it any credit to the authority of their church , that all who dispute it must endure a most miserable life or a most cruel death . all the other means they have are but probable ; but this , this is the most effectual . how admirably do fire and faggots end controversies ! no general council signifies half so much as a court of inquisition ; and the pope himself is not near so good a judge of controversies as the executioner , and dic ecclesiae is nothing to take him gaoler . these have been the kind , the tender , the primitive , the christian means of suppressing sects and heresies in the roman church ! o how compassionate a mother is that church , that takes her froward children in her hands to dash their brains against the stones ! o how pleasant a thing it is for brethren to be destroyed for lack of vnity ! how beautiful upon the . mountains are the feet of those who shed the blood of hereticks ! never were there two men had a more catholick spirit , than dioclesian and bishop bonner . men may talk to the worlds end of councils and fathers and authority of the church and i know not what insignificant nothings ; come , come , there is but one effectual means , which the good cardinal baronius suggested to his holiness , arise peter , kill and eat . let the hereticks talk of the kind and merciful spirit of our saviour who rebuked his disciples so sharply for calling for fire from heaven upon the samaritans , and told them they did not know what spirit they are of : let them dispute never so much against the cruelty and unreasonableness of such a way of confuting them ; let them muster up never so many sayings of fathers against it ; yet when all is done , what ever becomes of christianity , it was truly said of paul . that the authority of the roman see depends only upon the office of the inquisition . and that we may think , he was in good earnest when he said it , onuphrius tells us it was part of the speech he made to the cardinals before his death . was not this think we , a true vicar of christ ? a man of an apostolical spirit ? that knew the most effectual means of suppressing heresies and schisms and advancing the authority of the roman see. and that we may not think their opinion is altered in this matter , one of the late consulters of the inquisition hath determined that the practice of the roman church in the office of the inquisition is reasonable , pious , useful , and necessary ; which he proves by the testimony of their greatest doctors . and by which we may easily judge what n. o. and his brethren think to be the most effectual means of suppressing sects and heresies , with the want of which we are contented to be upbraided . but setting this aside we have as many reasonable means , and i think many more of convicting dissenters , than they can pretend to , in the roman church . . it is very well known that we do endeavour , as much as lyes in us , to reclaim all dissenters ; but god never wrought miracles to cure incorrigible persons , and would not have us to go out of the way of our duty to suppress sects and heresies . the greatest severities have not effected it , ( which made one of the inquisitors in italy complain that after . years experience , wherein they had destroyed above . persons for heresie , ( as they call it ) it was so far from being suppressed or weakned that it was extremly strengthened and increased . what wonder is it then , if dissenters should yet continue among us , who do not use such barbarous ways of stopping the mouths of hereticks with burning lead , or silencing them by a rope and flames . but we recommend as much as they can do to the people the vertues of humility , obedience , due submission to their spiritual pastors and governours , and that they ought not to usurp their office , and become their own guides : which n. o. in his conclusion blames us for not doing . yet we do not exact of them a blind obedience , we allow them to understand the nature and doctrine of christianity , which the more they do , we are sure they will be so much the better christians and the more easily governed . so that we have no kind of controversie about church-authority it self but what it is , and in what manner , and by whom to be exercised ; but surely n. o. had little to say , when from laying down the principles of faith , he charges me with this most absurd consequence of destroying all church-authority . i have thus far considered the main foundations upon which n. o. proceeds in opposition to my principles , there is now very little remaining which deserves any notice : and that which seems to do it as about negative articles of faith , and the marks of the true church i shall have occasion to handle them at large in the following discourse . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e ha●●●mull . hist iesuit . ordin . c. . s. c. p. . s. c. p. . roman doctrine of repentance , &c. vindicated p. . p. . p. . p. ● . et quamvis sine sacramento poenitentiae per se ad justificationem perducere peccatorem nequeat ( attritio ) ; tamen cum ad dei gratiam in sacramento poe●ite●tiae impetrandam disponit . concil . trident. sess . . c. . * si quis dixerit sacramenta novae legis non continere gratiam quam significant , aut gratiam ipsam non ponentibus obicem non conf●rre — anathema sit . sess. . can. . si quis dix●rit non dari gratiam per hujus modi sacramenta semper & omnibus , qua●tum est ex parte dei , etiamsi ritè ea suscipiant , sed aliquando & aliquibus , a●athemae sit . can. . sess. . c. . p. . melch. cano relect. de poenit. part . . p. . morinus de poenit. sacramento l. . c. . n. . la morale de iesuits ●●v . . ch . . ● . . layman . theol. moral . l. . tract . . c. . sect . . tolet. summ cas. l. . c ▪ . morinus de poenit. l. . c. . n. . lugo de poenit. disp . . sect . . n. . o. n. p. . lugo disp . . sect . . n. . sect. . n. . greg. de valent. tom. . disp . . q. . pua● . . sect . secundo potest . morin . de poenit . l. . c. . n. . id. ib. n. . sacramentorum evangelicorum supra legaliaa praestantiam & praerogativam in hoc potissimum fulgere , quod evangelica gravissimo contritionis , & dilectionis dei jugo nos liberaverint . morin . de poenit. l. . c. . n. . index exp●rg : alex. . n. . . ribadin . 〈…〉 l. . c. ● . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . sanctissi●●● domini n. d. innocenti● divina providentia pap● . . declaratio nullitatis articulorum nuperae pacis germaniae religioni catholicae , sedi apostolicae , ecclesiis , aliisque l●●is piis ac personis , & iuribus ecclesiasticis quomodo libet praejudicialium . romae ex typographiâ reverend . can●●● apostolicae . a. d. . p. . book of hom. second tome . p. . p. . p. ● . p. . appeal p. . answer to the gagg . p. . p. . concil . trident . sess . . can . . sess . . can . . v. vasquez . in . p. thom. disp . . c. . n. . vasquez . in . p th. disp . . c. . est. in sente●t . l. . disti . . sect . . aug. ●l . . c. epist. pa●●ca . c. . . c. donat. l . c. . l. c. ● . aug. e●ist . . epist. . c. c●ss . l. . c. . . co●ex ca● . eccles. a●ic . c. . apud . ba●samon . et zonar . ● . . hallier de ordi● . sacris . p. . sect. . c. . ss . . n. . p. . sect . . c. . sect . . . sect. . c. . s●ct . . to. aquin. suppl . q. . art . . 〈…〉 . l. . ●●ist . . q. . mori● . d● sacris ordi●at . pa● . . exercit . . c. . n. exer●it . . c. . n. . extra● . de temp . 〈◊〉 . c. quod trasl . morin . de sacris ordinat . part . . c. . . . leo allatius de aetat : et inte●st . in collat : ordin . p. . . isaaac . habert . po●tifical . graec. in praef . morin . de sacris ordin . p. . c. . notes for div a -e §. ● of the nature of these answers . §. . of their common way of answering our books . §. . of their ca●●mnies against me . mat. . . j●h . . §. . expo●ing fanaticism no disservice to christianity . dr. 〈◊〉 against dr. stilling●●●t . p. . m●●●h . ca● . loc . t●col . l. . p. . lud. viv. a●trad . 〈◊〉 . l. . dr. 〈◊〉 princip . con●id . 〈◊〉 . notes for div a -e §. . the insufficiency of his way of answering . p. . st. against st. p. . §. . no contratradiction about the charge of idolatry . rational account . p. , . §. . the sophistical cavils in this argument . tit. . . §. . a distinct answer to his propositions . §. . in what sense the church of rome is owned by us as a true church . rational account . p. . §. . his appendix considered . dr. st. against dr. st. p. . roman idolatry . p. . . edi● . isa. ▪ , . deut. . , . 〈◊〉 ▪ . § . the second contradiction examined . 〈…〉 p. . p. . arch b. la●ds conference . p. . p. . p. . p. . rational account . p. . st. against st. p. . p. . §. . the charge of fanaticism de●ended . p. . fanaticism of rom. church . s. . p. . . ●d . st. against st. p. . king . . rom. . . §. . no contradiction in the charge 〈◊〉 divisions . rational 〈◊〉 . p. . divis. of the rom. church . s. . ● . . ed. §. . the conclusion . p. . p. . notes for div a -e §. . the occasion of annexing the principles . p. . ● . ed. protestants without principles , chap. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. , . §. ▪ or the notion of infallibility . §. . n. o● . concessions . prop. . prop. . prop. . prop. . p. . s. . p. . p. . p. . p. . pro● . . p. . p. . ●rot . without princip . chap. . guide in controv. disc . . chap. . s. . sect. . § . n. o's . principles laid down . p. ● . §. . n. o's . exceptions answered . prop. . p. . ioh. , . p. . p. . luke . , . mat. . . p. . field of the church l ▪ . ch . p. . ch. ▪ ch. . p. . psal. . . james . . luke . . john . . §. . n. o's . proofs of infallibility examined . § . of the arguments from scripture for infallibility . 〈◊〉 . . . 〈◊〉 . . , . 〈…〉 . ration . account . p. . ch . . sect. . p. . prop. , p. . p. , . cor. . . heb. . . p. . p . prop. . p. . §. . of the argument from tradition for infallibility . p. , . b●ll de concil . l. . c. . field of the church , l. c . rat. account . part ▪ . ch . . sect. . p. . rat. acc●unt . p. . ch . . p. ▪ p . p. . § . of the argument for infallibility from parity of reason . prop. . § . of the authority of the guides of the church john . , . cor. . thess. . . acts : ▪ . john . ● gal. . . jude v. . mat. . , . ▪ . acts. . ▪ . t●m . . thess. . . tim. . , . t●ess . . , ● . matt. . . 〈◊〉 . . ● cor. . . cor. . . 〈…〉 . ba●o● a. d. . ● . petav dogmat . theolog. tom. . l . c. petr. de marca , dis●rt . de vigilii decr●to . bell. de rom. pon●it . l. . c. . b●lla●m . de concil . auctor . . c. . concil . constat . . act. . can. lo● . theol. l. . c. . francise . toa●●ens . de . . . synod . flor. a. d. . p. . . p. . p. . 〈◊〉 . allocutio . hadriani . ad co●c . ro. tom . conc. gen. ●d lu● . par. . p. ● . baron . a. d. . n. . francis. combesis historia h●res . monotheli●●r . c. . alex . index expu●g●tor . p. . bellarm. de rom. pontifice l. . c. . petav dogmat . theol. l. . c. . s. bal●zius de vi â petri marcae p. . . petav. ib. ●ect . . combesis . c. . sect . . tab●lae su●●rag . p. . iacob . de vitriaco hist. orient . cap. . bellonii obser . l. . c. . article . articl . . concil . lateran . a. d. . s●ct . . §. . of the s●nse of scripture . p. . p. . . p. . ephes. . , , . pet. . . p. . pet . , . § . of a judge of controver●●es . § . the way used in the primitive church f●r finding the sense of scripture 〈…〉 . ● . sect . . . 〈…〉 〈…〉 c. . l. . c. . epipha● . hae● . . iren l. . c. . t●rtull . de praecip haeret . c. . eus. b. hist. eccl●s l. . c. . 〈◊〉 l. . c. . iren. l. . c. . tertull. de praescrip . haeret . c. . pet. scrive i● fragmata ●● tragicorum . p. . isidor : or●gin . l. r. c. . iren. l. . c. . iren. l. . c. . c. . c. . l. . c. . c. . c. . c. . l. . . . l. . praebat . l. . praehat . tertull. de praescript haeret . c. . c. . c. c. . c. c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . t●rtull . c. mar. l. . c. . c. . , . c. . . l. . c. . c. . . l. ▪ c. c. . c. & ●● tertull. adversus hermog . c. . c. . . c. . t●rtull . adversus prax●am . c. . clem. ale● and. stro● . ● . cyprian . epist . . firmil . inter e●pas cyprian . baron . annal . ad a. d. . n. . n. . euseb. ● . l. . c. . concil . arelat . . c. . 〈…〉 . c. . . aug. de haer●s . cap. . g●●ad . de e●cl●s d●gmat . c. . ba●il epist. ca● . . ad ●●●●●loch . concil la●di●ea . c. ▪ . baron . annal . tom. . in append. 〈…〉 . . 〈◊〉 eccles● . ●istor . l. . c. . 〈…〉 b. l. . c. . epipha● . haeres . . sect. . sect. . athans . co●t . 〈◊〉 orat. . p. . atha . co●● . a●a● . 〈…〉 . p. . &c. eph . 〈…〉 c. 〈◊〉 . p. . ath●● o●at . . c. arian . ad ad ●ph . c. paul. samosat . cp . ad s●rapi . h●ar . de t●ait . l. . hilar. l. . 〈…〉 . ● . co●cil . gen●ral . tom. . p. . greg. nazia● ep. ● . bellar. de co●cil . author . l. . c. . august . c. maxim. l. . c. . aug. de doctri . christia● l. . c. , . l. . ● . . l. . c . ib. l. . c. . l. . c. . l . c. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . c. . c. , . l. . c. . l. . c. . vincent . lerin . commonitor . p. . commonit . . c. . ●● commonit . . c. 〈◊〉 . vincent . commonit . . a● . . ad . petav. dogm . theol tom. . in praefat . l. . c. . sect . . hier. a o● . . c. russi● . c. . c. . c. . §. . s. augustins testimo●● examined p. . aug. c. cresco● . l. . c. . aug. de unit . eccles. c. . , . c. . c. . aug. de baptis . c. donat . l . c. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . de bapt ● do●at . l. c. : de bapt. l. . c. . de baptis . l. . c. . c. c●e●cor . l. . c. . . c. cr●s●on . io. de bapt. c. do●at . l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. , l. . c. l. . c. . l. . c. . de bapt. ● . donat. l. . c. . §. . of church authority . p. . p. . p. . p. . art. . p. . fanaticism fanatically imputed to the roman church . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . chrysost. in . 〈◊〉 thess. hom. . s. c. p. . praeface to principles considered . p. ● . iacob simanca enchir . judic ▪ viol . relig. tit. . n. . luke . . onuphr . vit . pauli . del. bere de officio inquisit . part . . dub . . petit. . n. . ger. ●usdragi epistol . ad cardinal . pisan. the reformation justify'd in a sermon preached at guild-hall chappel septemb. , , before the lord major and aldermen, &c. / by edw. stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the reformation justify'd in a sermon preached at guild-hall chappel septemb. , , before the lord major and aldermen, &c. / by edw. stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed by robert white for henry mortlock ..., london : . marginal notes. reproduction of original in duke university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng reformation -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the reformation justify'd : in a sermon preached at guild-hall chappel septemb. . . before the lord major and aldermen , &c. by edw. stillingfleet , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london , printed , by robert white , for henry mortlock , and are to be sold at the white hart in westminster hall , and at the phoenix in st. pauls church-yard . . hanson major . cur. special . tent . in festo s. michaelis archang . . annoque regis caroli secundi angliae , &c. xxv . it is ordered by this court , that d r. stillingfleet be earnestly desired to print his sermon lately preached at the guild-hall chappel before the lord major and aldermen of this city . wagstaffe . acts xxiv . . but this i confess unto thee , that after the way which they call heresie , so worship i the god of my fathers , believing all things which are written in the law and the prophets . in the beginning of this chapter we find st. paul brought to his tryal before felix the roman governour , wherein ( if we only except the unfitness of the judge ) all other things concurred , which could make such an action considerable , viz. the greatness of the cause , the quality of the persons , and the skill which was shewed in the management of it . the cause was not common and ordinary , such as were wont to be tryed before the governours of provinces , but of an unusual and publick nature ; not a question of words and names , as gallio thought it , but of a matter of the highest importance to the world : which being managed by st. paul , with that zeal and industry , which was agreeable to it , gave occasion to his malicious countreymen to accuse him before the roman governour , as one guilty of faction and sedition . under this colour , they hoped easily to gain the governours good will to their design ; being a person that more regarded the quiet of his province , than all the concernments of truth and religion . but that this design might be carried on with the greater pomp and shew of justice and piety , they do not commit the care of it to the rage of the people , or some furious zealots ; but the high priest and some members of the sanhedrin go down on purpose from hierusalem to caesarea , and carry with them one of their most eloquent advocates called tertullus to manage the accusation against paul. who was no sooner called forth , but the orator begins to shew his art , by a flattering insinuation , which is most apt to prevail with men of mean and corrupt minds ; seeing that by thee , saith he , we enjoy great quietness , and that very worthy deeds are done unto this nation by thy providence ; we accept it alwayes and in all places , most noble felix , with all thankfulness : having thus prepared his judge , he presently falls upon the matter , and charges st. paul with being a pestilent and seditious person , a disturber of his nation in all parts , a prophaner of the temple ; but the main point of all , and in which the rest were comprehended , was , that he was a ringleader of the sect of the nazarenes . ( so the christians were then called among the jews , from our saviour's abode in the town of nazareth . ) but although the writer of this history gives us only the short heads of his accusation ; yet we may easily suppose by st. pauls answer , that he insisted more largely on this , than on any of the rest : representing to felix , that when the jewish church had been at first established by god himself under laws of his own making , when he had so settled the several orders and degrees of men among them , that the priests lips were to preserve knowledge , and the law to be sought at their mouths ; when under this government , their religion had been preserved for many hundreds of years , and after many revolutions they enjoyed one common and publick worship among them , though there were several distinct orders of religious men ( such as the pharisees and essens ) yet all agreed in the same divine worship ; but now at last to their great regret and horror appears one jesus of nazareth , a person of obscure parentage and mean education , who pretended to discover many corruptions in the doctrine and practices of our best men ; and without any authority from the high priest or sanhedrin he gathered disciples , and drew multitudes of people after him ; till at last the wisdom of our governours thought it fit to take him off , and make him an example for reformers ; notwithstanding this , his bold and forward disciples after his death carried on the same design , pretending that the time of reformation was come ; and accordingly have formed themselves into a sect , vigorous and active , of high pretences , and dangerous designs , which if it continues and increases can end in nothing short of the ruine of our antient jewish catholick church ; which hath had so constant and visible a succession in all ages ; that hath had so many martyrs and confessors in it ; so many devout and religious persons as the pharisees are ; so excellent an order and government , so much unity and peace before this new sect of nazarenes arose in opposition to that authority with which god had invested the high priest and rulers of the people . and among all the promoters of this new sect , there is none more factious and busie than this paul whom we here accuse ; and whom some of our nation found in the temple profaning of it , and there we would presently out of meer zeal to our religion have taken and destroyed ; but he was violently rescued out of our hands , and sent hither to be tryed ; and these things , which i have spoken , is the sense of all those who are come down as witnesses ; for so we read , v. . and the jews also assented and said , that these things were so . st. paul being thus accused , and having leave given him to answer for himself , was so far from being daunted by the greatness of his enemies , or the vehemency of their accusation , that he tells the governour , that he did with all cheerfulness undertake his defence : and there being two parts of his accusation , . his tumultuous and profane carriage in the temple ; this he utterly denies , v. , , . and plainly tells them , they can never prove it against him . . but as to the other and main part of the charge , his being a ringleader of the sect of the nazarenes ; although he would not , out of his great modesty , take upon himself to be one of the heads or chiefs among them , yet as to the owning of that way , notwithstanding all the imputations they had cast upon it , he doth it with the greatest freedome and courage in the presence of his judge and accusers ; and not only so , but defends himself therein , that he had done nothing contrary to the laws of god , or the most antient religion of his countrey : all which particulars are contained in the words of the text ; but this i confess unto thee , that after the way which they call heresie , so worship i the god of my fathers , believing all things which are written in the law and the prophets . wherein we have these three things considerable . . the imputation which christianity suffered under in its first appearance : after the way , which they call heresie . . the way taken by st. paul to remove this false imputation ; viz. by appeal to scripture and antiquity ; so worship i the god of my fathers , believing all things that are written in the law and the prophets . . the courage of st. paul in so freely owning his religion in the presence of his greatest enemies , and when they were in hopes to destroy him for it : this i confess unto thee , that after the way , &c. . i begin with the false imputation which christianity suffered under at its first appearance ; after the way which is called heresie ; the same word which is translated sect , v. . and although the word be indifferent in it self , yet where it is taken for a combination of men together against an established religion and lawful authority ( as it was by the jews when they charged the christians under this name ) then it implies in it a twofold accusation : . of novelty and singularity . . of faction and sedition . of novelty . a sect of heresie in this sense implies in it , mens setting up with a new doctrine which was not heard of before ; and making that thefoundation of a new society separate and distinct from the established church , and consequently they must charge the church they are divided from with errors and corruptions , or they make themselves guilty of schism , i. e. unnecessary separation . now upon these two grounds the jews laid the imputation of a new sect upon the nazarenes or christians , . because they could not shew a visible succession in all ages : . because they could not prove the jewish church to be guilty of such errors and corruptions as to need a reformation . . they could not shew a succession in all ages of such persons who agreed in all things with them . for where ( say they ) were the men to be found in former ages , that taxed the jewish church with such errors and corruptions as jesus of nazareth did ? that bid men beware of the leaven of the scribes and pharisees , i. e. of the most learned and holy men . had not god alwayes a visible church among them ? they could produce the names of their high priests in every age , and shew them all the marks of a visible church : for in judah was god known , and his name was great in israel . hath not god said , that in his house at hierusalem he would put his name for ever ; and his eyes and his heart should be there perpetually ? how is it then possible but there must be a constant and visible succession in all ages ? since god would alwayes have a people to dwell among ; and that might be known to be his people by the outward marks and signs of a true church . but if the christians pretences held good , god must for several ages have wanted a church amongst them . for none of those things which they charged the jews with , were newly crept in among them , but had been delivered down to them by the tradition of their fore-fathers , in an uninterrupted manner , as they thought , from the very time of moses . this was their rule whereby they guided themselves in their actions of religion , and in the sense of obscure places of the law and the prophets ; and in that time after the cessation of prophecy , when the christians supposed these corruptions to have come in among them , they could draw down a constant succession from the men of the great synagogue , of persons eminent for learning and piety that never charged them with any such corruptions as jesus of nazareth and his disciples did . would god ever suffer such dangerous errors , hypocrisie , and superstitions to prevail in his own church , and raise up no persons to discover these things , till these new teachers and reformers arose ? were not hillel and shammai that so accurately discussed all the niceties of the law , able to find out such gross and open corruptions , if any such had been among us ? might not we say , that not only the teachers , but god himself had slept all that time , if he raised up no one person to discover the coming in of such errors and corruptions ? where had god then any true church in the world , if not among his people of the jews ? and would he suffer that to be overspread with such a leprosie , and send none of his priests to discover it ? and even by the confession of the christians themselves , they were once the beloved and chosen people of god , how or when was it that they ceased to be so ? do not themselves acknowledge , that they receive the law and the prophets from our hands ? and that to us were committed the oracles of god , and that to us pertained the adoption , and the glory , and the covenants , and the giving of the law , and the service of god and the promises , and that ours are the fathers ? how is it then possible after all these priviledges , to suppose this church to fall into such a degeneracy , as at last to be cast off by god , and a new church to arise out of the ashes of it ? thus we may reasonably suppose the jews to have argued for themselves ; and on the other side , they trampled upon and despised this new sect of the nazarenes , that had nothing of the pomp and splendour of their church : they had only a company of mean and illiterate persons at first to joyn with them ; the disciples of their master were a sort of poor fishermen and inconsiderable persons , men of no authority , or reputation for extraordinary sanctity or learning : even their master himself was one of no great severity of life , that did not retire from the world , and lead an abstracted life , but conversed with publicans and sinners , and put not his disciples upon fasting and long prayers ; whereas the pharisees were men of great austerity and mortification , much exercised in devotion , making frequent and long prayers , at certain hours ; and in whatever place those hours took them . now how is it possible to believe , that such devout persons as these are mistaken , and the sect of the nazarenes only in the right ? but besides all this , where was their church before jesus of nazareth ? we offer to produce a personal succession on our side , that joyned in constant communion with us at the temple at hierusalem ; let the christians shew any number of men before themselves , that joyned with them in believing what they do , and rejecting the abuses which they tax among us : if they cannot do this , let them then suffer under the just imputation of novelty . . but supposing they do not think it necessary to assign a number of men distinct from our society , but say it is enough that though they joyned with them in the worship of god , yet they did not in their corruptions : yet to vindicate themselves , they must shew how it was possible for such corruptions to come in , and no more notice be taken of them : such things could not be introduced without some notable alteration ; and in such a one , the author , the time , the place , the manner may be assigned : we can tell , say they , all these circumstances in the idolatries of jeroboam , ahab , and manasseh ; if so great alterations have hapned in the state of our church , that there is a necessity of reforming it ; name us the persons , the time , the place , the manner how all these corruptions came in . when came men first to forsake the letter of the scripture , and adhere to tradition ? who first brought in the pharisaical superstitions ? what was his name , where was his abode , who first opposed and condemned him ? were all men asleep then to suffer such alterations , and to say nothing at all against them ? what , could one generation conspire to deceive the next ? and if not , how could such changes happen in matters of religion , and no one take care to discover it and prevent the infecting of posterity by it ? had no persons any regard to god and the purity of religion then ? if they had , would they suffer strange fire to come upon gods altar , and take no notice at all of it ? why did not jesus of nazareth , when he so frequently and vehemently declaimed against the pharisaical hypocrisie and superstitions , and false doctrines , shew to the people , when , and where , and how these things came into the church of god ? he only condemns them , and speaks sharply against them , but he saith not one word to satisfie the scientifical men among them , how it was possible for corruptions to come in , and prevail to such a degree , and yet no circumstances of time or place be assignable of it . thus the jews still believed themselves to be the only true , antient , visible catholick and infallible church of god , and despised the poor christians , as a novel and upstart sect of nazarens ; which is the first imputation the christians suffered under . . they suffered under the imputation of faction and sedition ; which is the second thing implyed in the name of sect or heresie here mentioned ; and that they charged upon them two wayes . . for not submitting to the churches authority . . for disturbing the peace and quiet of the people . . for not submitting to the churches authority : not , that the disciples of our lord did out of humour , or fancy , or only to make a party , break with the jews in matters meerly of order and indifferency : no , on the contrary we find them extreamly cautious of giving any offence in such matters , which temper they learnt of their lord and master , who complyed with many things , that others might not take advantage by his omission of them , to slight and contemn them ; thus when others were baptized of john , he would be so too ; not , that he had any need of washing away of sin : but he would not make use of a particular priviledge to bring any discountenance upon a general duty . thus we see , he went up at the solemn feasts to hierusalem as others did ; and not only was present in the temple , but vindicated by a miracle the order and decency of it , by driving out the buyers and sellers from the outward parts of it , although they had a fair pretence of being ready at hand to serve the necessities of such as were to sacrifice to god in the temple ; nay , st. mark tells us , that he would not suffer any vessell to be carried through the temple : and this he did not upon any reason peculiar to the levitical law , but because it was a house of prayer . and this example his apostles followed , who after they had the holy ghost poured upon them , yet they attended the temple at the hours of prayer . but most remarkable to this purpose , is the instance of st. paul at that very time when he was seized upon , and like to be destroyed by the fury of the jews . for , understanding at hierusalem from st. james , that there were many thousands of believing jews that were still zealous of the law , and were informed that st. paul among the gentiles slighted circumcision and the levitical customs ; he to give them all reasonable satisfaction that he intended to make no unnecessary breach among them about indifferent matters , submits himself to a legal purification in the temple for seven dayes together ; before the end of which , the jews made a tumult and seized upon him , and so he was brought to answer the accusations against him in this chapter . thus careful st. paul was to give no ground for suspicion that he delighted in disorders and separations ; this example he did leave to all prudent christians , rather to submit to things which they have no great value for ( as no doubt at this time st. paul had very little for the levitical customs ) than to hazard the breaking the peace of the church for such matters . but notwithstanding all this care of the first christians , they could not avoid the imputation of faction ; because they would not entirely submit their judgements to the authority of the jewish church . for this was the great pretence they stood upon , that they were the governours of the church by gods own institution , that they were to explain and interpret the law and the prophets ; and this was expressed in the beginning of their law , that in all cases of difficulty they were to go up to the place which the lord their god should chuse ; and to go to the priests , and the levites , and to the judge , and they shall shew thee the sentence of judgement . and thou shalt do according to the sentence which they of that place ( which the lord shall chuse ) shall shew thee , and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee ; and the man that will do presumptuously , and will not bearken to the priest , ( that standeth to minister there before the lord thy god ) or unto the judge , even that man shall dye , and thou shalt put away the evil from israel . upon this place , they might certainly much better establish the infallibility of their own church , than others draw an argument for infallibility in the christian church from it . however , absolute obedience would serve their turn , to charge the christians with faction , in not submitting to their authority . for , was not this a matter of difficulty , whether the messias were to be a temporal prince or not ? concerning what time , and place , and person the prophecies were to be understood ? who were the competent judges in this case , but those whom god had established by his law ? if the scribes and pharisees were charged with false glosses , and corrupting the law by their traditions , the christians were not to take upon themselves to judge of them ; but to appeal to the high priest and the sanhedrin , who were the only lawful judges in these matters : their duty was submission and patience ; but by no means ought they upon their own authority to begin a new church , and to broach new doctrines directly contrary to the judgement of the high priest and sanhedrin ; yea , after they had pronounced sentence against jesus of nazareth , and condemned him to death ; and excommunicated his followers , and punished as many as they could get into their power ; what could it ( in their opinion ) be but the spirit of faction and disobedience thus to oppose the authority of their church , in believing contrary to its decrees , and reforming without any power derived from it ? we see in our saviours time how severely they checked any of the people who spake favourably of christ and his doctrine ; as though the poor ignorant people were fit to judge of these matters ! to understand prophecies , and to know the true messias , when he should appear ! and therefore when some of their officers that had been sent to apprehend him , came back with admiration of him , and said , never man spake like this man , they take them up short and tell them , they must believe as the church believes ; what , they take upon them to judge of such matters ! no , they must submit to their governours : have any of the rulers , or pharisees believed on him ? but this people which know not the law are cursed . i e. when they set up their own judgement in opposition to the authority of the church . and after our saviours death at a solemn council at hierusalem , when peter and john were summoned before them ; the first question they asked was , by what power , or by what name have ye done this ? they never enquired , whether the miracle were wrought or no , or whether their doctrine were true ; all their question was about their mission , whether it were ordinary or extraordinary ; or what authority they could pretend to , that were not sent by themselves ; but let the things be never so true , which they said , if they could find any flaw in their mission according to their own rules and laws , this they thought sufficient ground to forbid them to preach any more , and to charge them with faction if they disobeyed . . they charged the christians with faction in being so active and busie to promote christianity to the great disturbance of the jews in all parts . this tertullus accused st. paul of , that he was a mover of sedition among all the jews throughout the world ; and accordingly the jews at thessalonica take the christians by force and carry them to the rulers of the city , crying , those that have turned the world upside down are come hither also . this they knew was the most effectual course to render them odious to all governours , who are apt to suspect all new things as dangerous , and think no truth can compensate the hazard of alterations . thus it was especially among the roman governours , who had learnt from the counsel given to augustus , to be particularly jealous of all innovations in religion ; and had much rather the people should continue quiet under an old error , than have the peace disturbed for the greatest truth . this was really the greatest difficulty in the way of christianity , it came no where , but people were possessed before hand with quite other apprehensions of religion , than the christians brought among them . the jewish and pagan religions were in possession in all places , and the people were at ease in the practice of them . what then must the christians do ? must they let them alone and not endeavour to convince them of the truth of their own doctrine ? if so , they are unfaithful to their trust , betrayers of truth , and false to the souls of men : if they go about to perswade men out of their religion , they know , such is the fondness most men have for their own opinions , especially in religion , that where they might hope to convince one , they might be sure to enrage many ; especially of those whose interest lay in upholding the old religion . how little doth reason signifie with most men , where interest is against it ! truth and falshood are odd kind of metaphysical things to them , which they do not care to trouble their heads with ; but what makes for or against their interest , is thought easie and substantial . all other matters are as gallio said , questions of names and words , which they care not for ; but no men will sooner offer to demonstrate a thing to be false , than they who know it to be against their interest to believe it to be true . this was the case of these great men of the jews that came down to accuse paul ; they easily saw whither this new religion tended , and if it prevailed among their people , farewell then to all the pomp and splendour of the high-priesthood at hierusalem ; farewell then to the glory of the temple and city whither all the tribes came up to worship thrice a year ; farewell then to all the riches , and ease , and pleasure which they enjoyed : and what was the greatest truth and best religion in the world to them , in comparison with these ? these were sufficient reasons to them to accuse truth it self of deceiving men , and the most peaceable doctrine of laying the foundation of faction and sedition . thus we have considerd the false imputations which were cast upon christianity at first , implyed in these words , after the way which is called heresie . . i now come to the way taken by st. paul to remove these false imputations , which he doth , . by an appeal to scripture , as the ground and rule of his faith , believing all things which are written in the law and the prophets . . by an appeal to the best and purest antiquity , as to the object of worship ; so worship i the god of my fathers , not bringing in any new religion , but restoring it to its primitive purity . . by an appeal to scripture as the ground and rule of his faith . the jews pleaded possession , tradition , authority of the present church : against all these st. paul fixes upon a certain and unmoveable foundation , the law and the prophets . he doth not here insist upon any particular revelation made to himself , but offers the whole matter in dispute to be tryed by a common rule that was allowed on both sides . and his meaning is , if they could prove that he either asserted , or did any thing contrary to the law and the prophets , then they had some reason to accuse him of innovation , or beginning of a new sect ; but if the foundation of his doctrine and practice lay in what themselves acknowledged to be from god , then they had no cause to charge him with introducing a new sect among them . but the great question here is , what ground st. paul had to decline the authority of the present church ? since god himself had appointed the priests to be the interpreters of the law ; and therefore in doubtful cases resort was to be made to them ; and not the judgement left to particular persons about the sense of scripture ; and yet in this case it is apparent st. paul declined all authority of the present church ; for at that very time the high-priests and elders came down to accuse him , and he takes not the least notice of their judgement in this matter . i shall therefore now shew that st. paul had very great reason so to do , and to appeal only to scripture . . because the authority of the present church was more lyable to error and mistake , than the rule of scripture was . . because it was lyable to more partiality , than that was . . because it was more lyable to error and mistake , than the rule of scripture was . it was agreed on both sides , that the law was from god , and that the prophets spake by the inspiration of the holy ghost ; all that was now left was only to find out the true meaning of them , and to compare prophecies with events . as in the case of the messias , if the circumstances foretold by the prophets had their exact accomplishment in christ , as might appear to those who carefully compared them ; if he were born at bethlehem , of the tribe of judah , when the scepter was departed from it , and during the second temple , and all other circumstances agreeing ; then though the ordinary judgement concerning true prophets belonged to the sanhedrin , yet it was far more reasonable to believe that they were mistaken , than that all the prophecies should be accomplished in a person that was not the true messias . for those prophecies were not intended only for the priests and rulers , but for directions to the people , that they might be able to judge of the accomplishment of them : otherwise when the authority of the jewish church condemned our saviour , the people could have no reason to believe him to be the messias ; if they were bound in the sense of scripture to submit their judgement wholly to the churches authority . it is plain then , that the sense of scripture may be so evident to private capacities , that they are not to submit in it to the present authority of a church . for notwithstanding all the promises made to the jewish church , and the command of submitting to the sentence of their priests and rulers , in a matter of the highest concernment , viz. concerning the true messias , men were bound to believe directly contrary to the present authority in the church . for the people were bound to believe christ to be the true messias ; although the high priest and elders had condemned him for a deceiver and malefactor . but besides this particular case , there may be several others wherein men may lawfully reject the authority of the present church ; and those are , when that authority shall go about to overthrow those things which must be supposed antecedent to the belief of any such authority : as , . the common sense of mankind . . the force of a divine law. . the liberty of judgement concerning truth and falshood . all these must necessarily be supposed before any authority of a church ; but if any church goes about to overthrow these , it thereby forfeits its own authority over men . . if it requires things contrary to common sense ; as in that instance wherein some of the jewish rabbies required submission to their authority , viz. in believing the right hand to be the left , or the left to be the right , if they determined so ; or supposing the jews to have required the people to deny that they ever saw any miracle wrought by christ ; or in the miracle of the loaves , that what they saw and handled , and tasted , to be bread was true bread ; or to say , that the same individual body might be in a thousand places at once , or that things whose nature it is to be in another , can subsist without their proper subject ; what church soever requires such things as these from its members to be believed , gives them just reason to reject its authority . . if it requires things contrary to the force and reason of a divine law : as the jews themselves would have acknowledged , if any authority among them had gone about either to have left out the second commandment , or made it lawful to give religious worship to images , under any distinctions whatsoever : or if the priests had taken away from the people their share in the sacrifices , under pretence of the unsanctified teeth , or the long beards of the laity , which were not fit to touch what had been offered in sacrifice to god. but we need not put cases among them , for our saviour therefore bids men have a care of the leaven of the scribes and pharisees , because by their traditions they made the commandment of god of none effect : as in their corban , if they made a vow to god they thought themselves excused from relieving their parents ; and in this way our saviour generally deals with them , shewing that though they pretended to keep the letter of the law ; yet by their corrupt additions and false glosses they overthrew the scope and design of it : which he thought sufficient reason to reject their authority ; and therefore when he bids his disciples , observe and do what soever the scribes and pharisees bid them ; it must be supposed to be only while they keep to the letter and reason of the law ; for if he had intended an absolute obedience , he would never elsewhere bid his disciples beware of their doctrine . . if it takes away all liberty of judgement concerning truth and falshood in religion . for this is a natural right which every man hath to judge for himself : and they that take this away , may as well command all men to put out their eyes , that they may better follow their guides . but the other is so much worse , because it is an assault upon our understandings , it is a robbing us of the greatest talent god hath committed to our management , it is a rape upon our best faculties , and prostituting them to the lusts of spiritual tyrants ; it is not captivating our understandings to the obedience of faith , but enslaving them to the proud and domineering usurpations of men ; wherein they would do by us as the philistins did by sampson ; they would put out our eyes , that we might grind in their prison , and make them sport . i would not be mistaken , it is the liberty of judgement i plead for , and not of practice ; that may be justly restrained by the laws of the church , where the other is allowed ; because the obligations to peace and unity are different from those to faith and inward assent . and that no absolute submission of judgement could be required by the law of moses , notwithstanding the command of outward obedience in the cases mention'd , deut. . , , &c. is most evident from hence , because that law makes provision for a sin-offering in case the whole congregation of israel sin through ignorance , and the thing be hid from the eyes of the assembly , or supream council , and they have done something against the commandment of the lord : which had been a law made to no purpose , if it had been impossible for their chief authority to have erred or been mistaken in their judgement . from hence we see st. paul had great reason to appeal from the high priest and elders to the law and the prophets , because they were subject to errour and mistake , but these are not . . because the law and the prophets are less liable to partiality , than a living judge , or the authority of the present church . i have oft-times wondered to hear men speak so advantageously of a living judge , before an infallible rule , in order to the end of controversies . if all they mean be only that an end be put to them no matter how , i confess a living judge in that case hath much the advantage , but so would any other way that persons would agree upon , as the judgement of the next person we met with , or lottery , or any such thing ; but if we would have things fairly examined and heard , and a judgement given according to the merits of the cause , the case will be found very different here from what it is in civil causes . for here the judge must be a party concerned , when his own authority and interest is questioned ; and lyable to all those passions which men are subject to in their own cases . which will be notoriously evident in the case before us , between the high priest and elders on one side , and st. paul on the other : they pleaded , that if any difficulty arose about the sense of the law , it belonged to them to judge of it ; st. paul declines their judgement , and appeals only to the law and the prophets : had it been reasonable in this case for felix to have referred the judgement to them who were the parties so deeply concerned ? a living judge may have a great advantage over a bare rule to put an end to controversies ; but then we must suppose impartiality in him , freedom from prejudice , an excellent judgement , diligence and patience in hearing all the evidence , and at last delivering sentence according to the sense of the law ; if any of these be wanting , the controversie may soon be ended , but on the wrong side . i suppose none of those who would have controversies in religion ended by a living judge , will for shame say , they would have them ended right or wrong ; but if they would have truth determined , they must give us assurance , that these judges shall lay aside all partiality to their own interests , all prejudice against their adversaries , shall diligently search , and examine , and weigh the evidence on both sides , and then shall determine according to the true sense of the law. how likely this is will appear by the living judges in our saviours time ; was there ever greater partiality seen than was in them , or more obstinate prejudice , or more wilful errors , or a more malicious sentence than came from them in the cause of our lord and saviour ? they would not believe his miracles , though told them by those that saw them ; when they saw them , they would not believe they came from god , but attributed them to the devil ; they would not so much as enquire the true place of his nativity , but ran on still with that wilful mistake , that he was born in galilee ; and by this they thought to confound nicodemus presently , search and look , for out of galilee ariseth no prophet . if they had searched and looked themselves , they would have found , that christ was born in bethlehem , and not in galilee . but where men are strongly prejudiced , any thing serves for evidence and demonstration ; whereas all the arguments on the other side shall be despised and contemned . how captious were they on all occasions towards our saviour , lying in wait to entrap him with questions , to pervert his words , and draw blasphemy out of the most innocent expressions ? and when none of all these things could do , they use all the wayes of fraud , malice and injustice to destroy the saviour of the world as a malefactor and blasphemer . was not here now a mighty advantage , which the authority of the present church among the jews of that time had , above the guidance of the law and the prophets ? and the knowledge st. paul had of the same temper being in them still might justly make him decline their judgement , and appeal only to the law and the prophets , for the ground and rule of his faith . . for the object of his worship , he appeals to the best antiquity , i worship the god of my fathers . i. e. i bring no new religion among you , but the very same in substance with that which all the jews have owned ; so some render 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 deo patrio , the god whom all my brethren acknowledge , but he rather understands it of the same god that was worshipped by abraham , and isaac , and jacob , quem majores nostri coluerunt ; so st. peter in his preaching to the people concerning the resurrection of christ , to avoid the imputation of novelty , saith , the god of abraham , and of isaac , and of jacob , the god of our fathers hath glorified his son jesus ; and again to the sanhedrin he saith , the god of our fathers raised up jesus ; and st. paul , the god of our fathers hath chosen thee ; in the use of which expressions they purposely declare that they had no thoughts of bringing in any new religion among them , contrary to what god had of old declared to the patriarchs . the main things in which the jews objected innovation to them , did either concern the bringing in some new doctrine , or the reformation of corruptions among them . . for their doctrine ; that either concerned the messias , or a future state . for the doctrine of the messias it was as antient as the records of any revelation from god were . it was the great promise made to the patriarchs long before the law of moses ; and even moses himself speaks of him , as st. steven proves to them ; and david , and isaiah , and jeremiah , and ezekiel , and daniel , and micah , and malachi , as the apostles at large prove in their writings . why should this then be accounted any new doctrine which they all believed and received ? if the question be only whether christ were that messias or no ; for that , they desire nothing more than the testimony of the law and the prophets , and the miracles wrought by him ; but they had no reason to quarrel with them upon their belief , for such an alteration of the state of things which themselves believed must be when the messias came ; for in him not only the nation of the jews , but all the nations of the earth were to be blessed ; which was inconsistent with supposing the ceremonial law to continue in its force and obligation ; being particularly suited to one people lying within such a compass as they might three times a year attend upon the service in the temple at hierusalem . if their quarrel was , concerning a future state , as though that were a new doctrine , st. paul adds in the next verse , that themselves also allow , that there shall be aresurrection of the dead both of the just and the unjust . and in his defence before agrippa he saith , and now i stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of god unto our fathers , unto which promise our twelve tribes instantly serving god day and night hope to come . so that the apostle produces antiquity , universality and consent in these fundamental articles of the christian religion ; only a late busie and politick faction of the sadducees opposed this doctrine ; but why should their opposition signifie any thing against so full a stream running down from the first and purest antiquity ? thus much for the positive part of their faith and doctrine . . for the negative pare , or the reformation of abuses and corruptions among them ; this was s. pauls plea ; let them shew where the god of our fathers imposed any of those heavy burdens which the scribes and pharisees place so much of their religion in . what ground is there in the law and the prophets , for the pharisaical superstitions , and vows , and severities to themselves in fetching blood and knocking their heads against the walls , and different garbs and dresses to appear more holy unto men , with many other customs of theirs , the observation of which was made so great a part of the religion of their devoutest men ? and it is a strange thing they should think it impossible such things should come in among them , without great notice being taken of it ; for although sudden and violent changes may have all the circumstances known , yet it is not to be expected in more in sensible & gradual alterations . a man may tell when a violent feaver seized upon him and inflamed his blood , but he cannot do so by a hectick or a consumption ; must he therefore believe himself well , because he cannot tell the punctual time when he fell sick . we may casily describe the circumstances of a landflood which overflows the banks , and bears all before it , but we cannot do so by the coming in of the tide , which steals in secretly and insensibly , and no man can assign the place where the salt and fresh water first mix together . superstition is a hectick feaver to religion , it by degrees consumes the vitals of it , but comes on insensibly , and is not easily discovered till it be hard to be cured . at first , it may be some devout but indiscreet men made way for it , who love to find out some modes of devotion different from the rest of the world , which are greedily embraced by such who admire and follow them ; this example taking , another begins and sets up for a more refined way than the former ; and so the design spreads , till at last true piety and goodness be swallowed up by superstitious fopperies . which is the most probable account of all the pharisaical corruptions ; some of whose observations might be begun at first with a good mind , and by the devout persons of that time ; but afterwards , every one that had a sowrer look and a worse nature than ordinary , thought it not enough to follow the example of others , but like a great physician he must have his nostrum's , something of his own finding out , a new garb , or ceremony , or posture of devotion , whereby he may be taken notice of , and admired for his sanctity . thus that fardle of superstitious rites was gathered up among the scribes and pharisees in our saviours time , whom he most severely upon all occasions rebukes for their hypocrisie , in placing so much of their religion in them . and thus much for the way taken by st. paul to vindicate christianity from the imputations of being a new sect or heresie , by an appeal to scripture and the best antiquity . . there remains only , the freedom and courage expressed by him in owning his religion , notwithstanding these false imputations . but this i confess unto thee , that after the way which is called heresie , &c. he abhorred that mean and base-spirited principle , which makes it lawful for men to deny their religion when it brings them into danger ; he studied no secret arts of complyance with his adversaries to securehimself ; he did not decline appearing , though to the hazard of his life , in so just a cause . he valued his religion beyond his own safety , and regarded not all the calumnies and reproaches of his enemies , as long as he made this his constant exercise , to keep a conscience void of offence , both towards god and towards men . and this he elsewhere saith afforded him more inward comfort and satisfaction , than all the crafts and policy in the world could give him . for our rejoycing is this , saith he , the testimony of our conscience , that in simplicity and godly sincerity , not with fleshly wisdom , but by the grace of god we have had our conversation in the world . there is nothing inspires men with so much courage , as integrity and uprightness of mind doth ; and such persons who have the comfort of that , have not only better hopes as to another world , but oft-times escape better as to this , than others do ; for even their enemies cannot but esteem them : whereas the fawning , sneaking and flattering hypocrite that will do or be any thing for his own advantage , is despised by those he courts , hated by good men , and at last tormented by his own conscience , for being false to god and religion . but we may see here in st. paul a great instance of true christian magnanimity ; he was sensible how great both the malice and quality of his enemies were ; he knew he was to answer before a judge , that regarded nothing either of justice or religion ; yet he neither flatters his judge , nor betrayes any distrust of him : he doth not bespatter his enemies , nor discover any fear of them ; but with a modest freedom and manly courage owns the main part of their accusation , and effectually vindicates his own innocency and his religion together . for even felix himself , although a man otherwise very capable of being wrought upon by some wayes of address , of which we read , ver. . yet the high priest and the elders with their eloquent tertullus were forced to return as they came , and leave st. paul under the name of a prisoner , but enjoying the conveniencies of liberty , ver . . i have now gone thorough all the parts of the text , with a respect to st. paul and the authority of the jewish church , which was engaged against him ; it may now be justly expected that i make application of what i have said to our own state and condition . thanks be to god , we are not brought to such a tryal as st. paul was , we enjoy the liberty of speaking for our selves and our religion , and not only speaking for it , but professing and owning it . and , may we ever do so ! but we have busie and restless adversaries abroad , the factors of the high priest and elders at rome , who have as much spight and malice against us , as ever those of hierusalem had against st. paul ; and they have their tertullus's too , men of art and insinuation , and who manage their cause against us just as he did against st. paul , they charge us with bringing in new sects under the pretence of reformation ; or with rejecting the authority of the present church which we were bound to obey , and thereby laying the foundation of faction ●nd schism . these are heavy charges , but they are no other than those the high priest and the elders made against st. paul ; and thanks be to god , his defence and vindication is ours too , for we appeal to scripture and the best and purest antiquity ; and desire to be judged according to these . these three things therefore i shall speak to , before i conclude . . that the same reasons which they produce against the reformation would have held against the spreading of christianity at first . . that the same defence which st. paul made for christianity will justifie the reformation . . that we have all reason to follow the courage of st. paul in owning and defending our religion , not with standing the imputations which are cast upon it . . that the same reasons which they produce against the reformation would have held against christianity at first . what have all the clamours of our adversaries for above a hundred years come to , but the very same which i have already mentioned as the jews objections against christianity , viz. novelty , and faction ? where was your church before the reformation ? produce your succession in all ages of persons who agreed in all things with you . where were those distinct bodies of men who found fault with those corruptions that you pretend to reform ? our church hath had a constant and glorious succession of bishops , and martyrs , and consessors , and religious orders of men , virgins , and widows . but supposing such a distinct succession were not necessary , yet shew how it was possible for so many errors and corruptions to come into the church , and no one take notice of them and discover them . where was the watchfull eye of providence over the church all this while ? what , all the pastors asleep at once ! or all conspiring together to deceive their posterity ! besides , how can the protestants ever answer their rejecting the authority of the present church which they lived under ? and to whom god had promised his infallible spirit ? how can they clear themselves from faction and disturbing the peace of the christian world , which lived in so great unity and peace before ? this is the summ of their objections against the reformation , which are the very same we have mention'd before , as produced by the jews against christianity . if the arguments are good now , they were so then ; if they were good then , for all that i can see the high priest and elders were in the right , and st. paul in the wrong ; if they were not good then , but are now , some remarkable disparity must be shewed between their case and ours ; and that must lye in shewing these three things . . that the christian church hath greater infallibility promised than the jewish had . . that the first christians had greater reason to reject the authority of that church , than the reformers had , as to the church of rome . that the causes of corruptions in the jewish church , could not hold in the christian . but if none of these can be made good , then the case will appear to be the very same . . it cannot be proved that the christian church hath greater infallibility promised than the jewish had . of which we have this plain evidence , that one of the strongest arguments produced for the infallibility of the christian church is taken from the promises made to the jewish . how often hath deut. . , , . been made use of to prove infallibility in the christian church ? if they had any better arguments in the new testament , would they ever run so far back to a command that most evidently relates to the jewish constitution ? where hath ever god promised that he would dwell in st. peters at rome , as he did , that he would dwell in his temple at hierusalem ? what boastings and triumphs would there have been , if any such words had been in the gospel concerning rome , as there were of old concerning hierusalem ; viz. that god had sanctified it , that his name might be there for ever ; and his eyes and his heart should be there perpetually ? what pittiful proofs in comparison of this , are all those brought out of the new testament for the authority and infallibility of the roman church ? what are all the promises of the spirit made to the apostles , and remarkably accomplished in them , to this plain promise of gods particular presence in that place for ever ? suppose st. peter had priviledges above the rest of the apostles ; how comes the entail to be made to all his successors , and only at rome and no where else ? where are the deeds kept , that contain this gift ? why are they not produced during all this contest ? and yet we see in the jewish church where such a promise was made to a particular place , no such thing as infallibility was implyed in it . . it cannot be shewed , that the first christians had greater reason to reject the authority of the jewish church , than our reformers had to reject that of the church of rome . i know here it will be presently said , that the apostles saw the miracles of christ , and wrought many themselves , and received an immediate commission from jesus christ in whom the churches infallibility was then seated . all which i grant to be true in it self , but cannot be pleaded by them who contend for absolute obedience to the present churches authority as infallible . my reason is , because upon this principle they could not believe christ to be the true messias ; for his being the true messias depended upon two things , viz. the fulfilling of prophecies , and the truth of his miracles ; now according to their principles , no man could be certain of either of these without the authority of the church ; for the fulfilling of prophecies depended upon the sense of many obscure places of scripture , about which they say there is a necessity of an infallible judge ; and for miracles , they tell us , that there is no certain way of judging true and false , but by the authority of the church . now if these things be so , what ground could the first christians have to believe christ to be the true messias , when in both these , they must oppose the authority of the present church ? . they can never prove , that the same causes of corruptions do not hold as to the christian , which did as to the jewish church . for the christian church in those ages which we charge with introducing the corruptions , was degenerated into greater ignorance , barbarism , luxury and superstition , than the jewish church in the time of its darkness from the cessation of prophecy till the coming of christ. our adversaries themselves confess , that for a long time , there was nothing either of learning or humanity among them ; nothing but ease , and luxury , and ambition , and all manner of wickedness among the chief rulers among them ; nay , even at rome there was a succession of fifty of their high priests , so remarkable for their wickedness , that annas and caiaphas ( setting only aside their condemning christ ) were saints in comparison of them . and is it now any wonder that such errors and corruptions should come into that church , as those we charge them with ? nay , rather the greatest wonder seems to be , that any thing of christianity should be preserved among them . but besides the sottishness of those times , we have many other causes to assign of the corruptions introduced among them ; as , a complyance with gentilism in many of their customs and superstitions ; affectation of new modes of devotion , among indiscreet zealots ; ambition and constant endeavour to advance the authority and interests of the priesthood above all secular power ; and when for a long time these had been gathering the rude materials together , then the moorish philosophy happening to creep in among them , the monks began to busie themselves therein , and by the help of that , a little better to digest that mass and heap of corruptions , and to spend the wit they had to defend and improve them . . but against all these , we stand upon the same defence that st. paul did : we appeal to scripture , and the best and purest antiquity . we pretend to bring in no new doctrines , and therefore no miracles can be required of us ; which the apostles wrought to confirm christs being the true messias who was to alter that state which god himself had once appointed : all that we plead for , is that the religion established by christ may serve our turn , and that which is recorded by the apostles and evangelists ; to these we make our constant appeal , and have the same reason to decline the authority of the roman church , that st. paul had as to the high priest and elders , when he appealed to the law and the prophets : nay , we have somewhat more reason ; because god had once appointed the high priests and rulers of the people among them , but the supremacy of the roman church was a meer usurpation begun by ambition , advanced by forgery , and defended by cruelty . but we do not only believe all that is written in the law and the prophets , but we worship the god of our fathers ; of the fathers of the first and purest ages of the christian church ; we are not only content to make use of their authority in these matters , but we make our appeal to them ; and have begged our adversaries ever since the reformation , to prove the points in difference between us , by the testimony of the first six hundred years ; but from that time to this , they are as far from proving any one point , as ever they were . . what then follows from all this , but that we should imitate st. pauls courage in owning and defending our religion , notwithstanding all the false imputations which are cast upon it . what a shame would it be for us , meanly and basely to betray that cause , for which our ancestors sacrificed their lives ? is the romish religion any thing better than it was then ? what error in doctrine , or corruption in practice have they ever reformed ? nay , have they not rather established and confirmed them more ? are they any thing kinder to us than they have been ? no. notwithstanding all their late pleadings for evangelical peace and charity , they can at the same time tell us , that the statutes against hereticks are still in force against us , as condemned hereticks ; and we are not so dull , not to apprehend the meaning of that ; viz. that were it in their power they could lawfully burn us to morrow . and is not this the height of evangelical love and sweetness ? who can but admire the perswasiveness of such arguments to gospel-meekness , and melt at the tenderness and bowels of an inquisition ? let us not deceive our selves ; it is not the mean complyance of any in going half way towards them , will serve their turn : there is no chewing their pills , all must be swallowed together , or as good in their opinion to have none at all . for not only plain hereticks , but the favourers and suspected of heresie are solemnly excommunicated every year in the famous bull of coena domini ; and lindwood their english canonist , tells us whom they account suspected of heresie , viz. all that shew common civility to hereticks , or give alms to them , or that once hear their sermons . this last indeed hath been mitigated by a considerable party among them ; for notwithstanding the opposition of the jesuits in this matter , and seven briev's obtained by their means from several popes forbidding all roman-catholicks to come to our churches ; yet the secular priests have contended for it as a thing lawful for them not only to come to our prayers , and hear our sermons , but to partake of our sacraments too . which they may allow , while they hope to carry on their interest better that way ; but if once , ( which god forbid ) the tide should turn with them , then the old laws of their church must prevail , and nothing will be thought so wholsome as an inquisition . which it is strange , their advocates for liberty of conscience , should call only , laws in catholick countreys against hereticks , and not laws of the church , when there are extant above a hundred bulls and briev's of popes establishing , confirming , and enlarging the inquisition . since then no favour is to be expected from their church ( for whatever they pretend , all the severity comes from thence , all the favour and mitigation from the clemency and wisdom of princes ) let us endeavour to strengthen our selves , by a hearty zeal for our religion , and using the best means to confirm and uphold it . and since the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light ; there are some things practised among them which may deserve our imitation : and those are , . a mighty industry and zeal in promoting their cause ; they have learn'd of their predecessors to compass sea and land to gain one proselyte . they insinuate themselves into all companies , stick at no pains , accommodate themselves to all humours , and are provided one way or other to gratifie persons of all inclinations ; for they have retirement for the melancholy , business for the active , idleness for the lazy , honour for the ambitious , splendour for the vain , severities for the sowre and hardy , and a good dose of pleasures for the soft and voluptuous . it is not their way , but their zeal and industry i propound to our imitation ; i know not how it comes to pass ; but so it often happens , that they who are most secure of truth on their side , are most apt to be remiss and careless ; and to comfort themselves with some good old sayings , as god will provide , and truth will prevail , though they lye still , and do nothing towards it ; but certainly such negligence is inexcusable , where the matter is of so great importance , the adversaries so many , and an account must be given shortly in another world , of what men have done or suffered for their religion in this . . submission and obedience to their spiritual governours ; the greatest strength of that prevailing faction lyes in the close union and cohesion of all the parts together , by a settled subordination of one to another ; which though not alwayes effectual , yet the contrivance is so laid , as if there were as much truth and reason as policy in it , cannot be denyed to be fit for upholding the interest of a church . but we plead not for their blind and absolute obedience ; but sure the apostles had some meaning when they bid the christians obey them that had the rule over them , and submit themselves , for they watched for their souls ; and esteem them very highly in love for their works sake : not , be ready on all occasions to reproach and contemn them , and be glad of any idle stories wherewith to bespatter them . if men would once understand and practise the duties of humility , modesty , and submission to the government which god hath set over us , we might have greater hopes to secure the interest of our church and religion , than without it we can ever have . for spiritual pride , conceitedness in religion , and a spirit of contradiction to superiours are to be reckoned among some of the worst symptoms of a declining church . . lessening of differences among themselves ; for although with all their care they cannot prevent them , yet they still endeavour to extenuate them , as much as possible , and boast of their unity among strangers to their churches affairs . the great wisdom of the court of rome lyes in this , that as long as persons are true to them in the main points wherein the difference lyes , they can let them alone in smaller differences among themselves ; and not provoke either of the dissenting parties , unless they are sure to suppress them , lest they give them occasion to withdraw from their communion . they can allow different rites and ceremonies in the several orders of religion among them , and grant exemptions and priviledges in particular cases ; as long as they make them serviceable to their common interest by upholding and strengthning them . would to god we could at last learn this wisdom from our enemies , not to widen our own differences by inveterate heats , bitterness and animosities among our selves ; but to find out wayes whereby even the dissenters in smaller things may be made useful for the maintaining the common interest of our church and religion . and it is a vain thing in any to go about to separate these ; or ever to hope that the protestant religion can be preserved among us without upholding the church of england . for if once that bullwark be demolished , our adversaries will despise all the lesser sconces and pallisado's ; they will be but like romulus his walls , which they will easily leap over at their pleasure . i pray god then ( and i hope you will all joyn with me in it ) that he would vouchsafe to our governours the spirit of wisdom and peace , to find out the most proper means for the establishment of our church and religion ; and i pray god give us all a spirit of knowledge to understand the things which belong to our peace , and of love and unity to endeavour after them . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e act. . . ver. . ver. , . ver. , . mal. . . heb. . . ver. . psal. . . deut. . . kings . . chron. . . v. bell. de not . eccles. l. . c. . §. praeterea . rom. . . . , . mat. . . mat. . . mar. . . acts . . acts . , . ver. . deut. . , , , , . joh. . , , , . acts . . ver. . acts . . mat. . . . . mat. . . màt . . . lev. . . john . . acts . . . . . . acts . . acts . , . ver. . cor. . . chron. . . advocat of conscience-liberty , p. . . lindwood provinc . l. . tit . de haeret . p. . . vertum. rom. p. , . advoc. for lib. p. . v. append. ad nicol. eyneric . director . inquisit . ven. . heb. . . thess. . . proposals tender'd to the consideration of both houses of parliament for uniting the protestant interest for the present, and preventing divisions for the future together with the declaration of k. charles ii, concerning ecclesiastical affairs, and some proposals of terms of union between the church of england and dissenters / long since published by the reverend dean of s. pauls. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) proposals tender'd to the consideration of both houses of parliament for uniting the protestant interest for the present, and preventing divisions for the future together with the declaration of k. charles ii, concerning ecclesiastical affairs, and some proposals of terms of union between the church of england and dissenters / long since published by the reverend dean of s. pauls. stillingfleet, edward, - . charles ii, king of england, - . england and wales. sovereign ( - : charles ii). declaration to all his loving subjects of his kingdom of england and dominion of wales concerning ecclesiastical affairs. p. printed for henry clark and sold by the booksellers of london and westminister, london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng dissenters, religious -- england -- early works to . dissenters, religious -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - rachel losh sampled and proofread - rachel losh text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion proposals tender'd to the consideration of both houses of parliament , for uniting the protestant interest for the present ; and preventing divisions for the future . together with the declaration of k. charles ii. concerning ecclesiastical affairs . and some proposals of terms of union between the church of england and dissenters , long since published by the reverend dean of s. pauls . london , printed for henry clark , and sold by the book-sellers of london and westminster , m dc lxxx ix . humble and modest proposals for uniting the protestant interest . i doubt not but every pious and sober protestant of this nation , cannot but be heartily troubled to observe those passionate differences and unchristian dissentions which daily increase among brethren , who are united in one and the same doctrin of their religion , and reformed from the errors and superstitions of the church of rome : upon the due consideration of which , every one who wisheth peace and prosperity to the kingdom he lives in , ought to consider what should be the occasion of those unhappy and ruinous divisions we have so long suffered under , and to offer probable means for composing them . as to their first rise , i doubt not but they ow their original to the different manner of the reformation , and the establishing of the orders which each church did think fit and convenient for it self , ( as the reverend and pious mr. hooker acquaints us ) which were so peremptorily established under that high commanding form , which rendered them to the people as things everlastingly required by the law of that lord of lords , against whose statutes there is no exception to be taken ; by which means it came to pass , that one church could not but accuse and condemn another of disobedience to the will of christ , in those things where manifest difference was between them : whereas the self-same orders allowed , but yet established in more wary and suspense manner , as being to stand in force till god should give the opportunity of some general conference what might be best for them afterwards to do ; this , i say , had both prevented all occasion of just dislike which others might take , and reserved a greater liberty unto the authors themselves of entring into farther consultation afterwards ; which , though never so necessary , they could easily now admit , without some fear of derogation from their credit : and therefore that which once they had done , they became for ever after resolute to maintain . now if we consider the shortness of that time wherein our first reformation continued under edward the sixth ; and the persecution in queen mary's reign , which forced many pious and learned clergymen of the church of england , to flee into foreign countries ( as zurick , embden , basil , strasburg , frankford , geneva , &c. ) for the preservation of their religion and lives , where they frequently conversed with those eminent divines , who were the great reformers there ; 't is no wonder that some of them should return better pleased with their discipline than their own , especially considering that several of them had intimate acquaintance and conversation with one of the reformers , whom the reverend mr. hooker thought incomparably the wisest man man that ever the french church did enjoy since the hour it enjoyed him . in queen elizabeth's , king iames , and k. charles the first 's reigns , 't is well known how our differences increased , until that unhappy war broke out ; by which the non-conforming interest prevailed ; so that the presbyterian discipline was endeavoured to be fixed as the established form of government in this nation ; our universities , preachers , writings , education , &c. were generally modelled thereto ; by which means , the greatest number of the trading part of the kingdom , several of the gentry , and some few of the nobility ( observing the precepts and practices , lifes and deaths of many of that clergy to be pious and exemplary ( joyned with them of this , or the like perswasion . since which time , it pleasing god to restore king charles ii. the parliament thought it convenient to establish the same discipline which our first reformers judged prudential , and that ( as the dissenters do complain ) upon stricter subscriptions than formerly , not abating or laying aside any of those ceremonies which have been matters of dispute and contention betwixt them and the church of england ever since our blessed reformation from popery and superstition : upon which account , many of the non-conforming divines laid down their livings , and the old controversies began afresh to be revived ; and so are like to be continued , until we be either ruined by popery , or healed by moderation , which is the only salve to cure the churches wounds , and that admirable remedy formerly proposed to the wisdom of superiours by the reverend dr. stillingfleet ; who having highly commended the prudence and temper of the french churches in composing their publick forms of prayer , that they were so far from inserting any thing controversial into them , that papists themselves would use them . and saith he , the same temper was used by our reformers in the composing our liturgy in reference to the papists , to whom they had an especial eye , as being the only party then appearing ; whom they desired to draw into their communion , by coming as near them as they well and safely could . and certainly those holy men who did seek by any means to draw in others at such a distance from their principles as the papists were , did never intend by what they did for that end , to exclude any truly tender consciences from their communion . that which they laid as a bait for them , was never intended by them as a hook for those of their own profession . but the same or greater reason which made them at that time yield so far to them then , would now have perswaded them to alter and lay aside those things which yield matter of offence to any of the same profession with themselves now : for surely none will be so uncharitable toward those ; of his own profession , as not to think there is as much reason to yield in compliance with them , as with the papists . and it cannot but be looked upon as a token of god's severe displeasure against us , if any , though unreasonable proposals of peace between us and the papists , should meet with such entertainment among many , and yet any fair offers of vnion and accomodation among our selves be so coldly embraced and entertained . thus far our reverend and learned dean of pauls delivered his opinion as to these matters of dispute near thirty years a-gone , before the laws were established against dissenters . and in his book , entituled , the unreasonableness of separation , ( wrote twenty years after the former ) he hath given the world such a testimony of his real kindness to dissenters , ( notwithstanding his hard usuage from them ) and of his sincere and hearty desire to heal our unhappy breaches , and unite our unchristian divisions , as will for ever consecrate his memory to posterity . upon these and some other like considerations , i should humbly propose to the wisdom of this present parliament , some probable means to put an end to our present differences , and to unite us for the future ; that so we may become a flourishing nation , free from the factions and divisions of former ages . proposals for our present vniting . . i humbly propose , that the ceremonies at present enjoyned by law , might be left to the liberty of the clergy to use or lay aside , and that , because the dissenters on the one hand are perswaded that their conformity to them would be sinful ; and the church of england on the other hand hath declared at several times that they are things indifferent , and may be changed . upon our first reformation in the account she hath given of ceremonies , why some be abolished , and some retained , she saith thus , that as those ceremonies were taken away which were most abused , and did burthen mens consciences without any cause ; so the other that remain are retained for discipline and order , which ( upon just causes may be altered , and changed . again , since his majesties restauration , in her preface to the common-prayer , are these words , that the particular forms of divine worship , and the rites and ceremonies appointed to be used , being things in their own nature indifferent and alterable , and so acknowledged ; it is but reasonable that upon weighty and important considerations , according to the various exigency of times and occasions , such changes should be made therein , as to those that are in place of authority , should from time to time seem either necessary or expedient . accordingly we find that in the reigns of several princes of blessed memory since the reformation , the church upon just and weighty considerations her thereunto moving , hath yielded to make such alterations in some some particulars , as in their respective times were thought convenient . thus far the church of england . and of late i find that a very eminent member thereof , the reverend dean of canterbury , hath aequainted us in a publick sermon preached by him at the yorkshire-feast , that though it was not for private persons to undertake in matters of publick concernment , yet he thought he had no cause to doubt but the governours of our church ( notwithstanding all the advantages of authority and reason too , as they thought , on their side ) were persons of that piety and prudence , that for peace sake , and in order to a firm vnion amongst protestants , they would be content , if that would do it , not to insist upon little things , but to yield them up , whether to the infirmity or importunity , or , perhaps , in some very few things , to the plausible exceptions of those who differed from them . the reverend dr. sherlock , in a sermon lately preached before the lord mayor , hath likewise most charitably and piously declared his thoughts about these matters of difference in the following words . we have reason to hope , that the church of england , which at the beginning of the reformation took such prudent care not to offend the papists going farther from them , than was necessary ; will , whenever it is likely to do good , condescend a great deal farther than it is necessary to reform , to meet the dissenter ; for while the external decency , gravity , and solemnity of worship is secured ; no wise and good man will think much to change a changeable ceremony , when it will heal the breaches and divisions of the church . and let us all heartily pray to god that there may be this good and peaceable disposition of mind in all conformists , and non-conformists towards a happy re-union ; and all considering men will think it time to lay aside such little disputes , when it is not meerly the church of england , nor any particular sect of protestants , whose ruin is aimed at , but the whole protestant faith. and as a farther confirmation of the readiness , not only of our divines , but of the fathers of our church to incourage so glorious a work , his grace of canterbury , and the rest of the petitioning bishops , did in their famous petition ( for which they were sent prisoners to the tower ) assure his majesty , that they did not refuse to distribute and publish his declaration for liberty of conscience , from any want of due tenderness to dissenters ; in relation to whom they were willing to come to such a temper , as should be thought fit , when that matter should be considered and setled in parliament and convocation . and not long after another company of bishops who were sent for by the late king iames , to give him their advice , ( in ( in several important affairs of the nation ) among other things , proposed , that a free parliament should establish a due liberty of conscience . the archbishop of canterbury was to earnest to promote this so christian design , that among those admirable articles recommended by his grace to all the bishops within his province , ( which were to be more fully insisted upon in their addresses to the clergy and people of their respective diocesses ) this was one : that they also walk in wisdom towards those that are not of our communion : and if there be in their parishes any such , that they neglect not frequently to confer with them in the spirit of meekness , seeking by all good ways and means to gain and win them over to our communion : more especially that they have a very tender regard to our brethren the protestant dissenters ; that upon occasion offered , they visit them at their houses , and receive them kindly at their own , and treat them fairly wherever they meet them ; perswading them ( if it may be ) to a full compliance with our church , or at least , that whereunto we have already attained , we may all walk by the same rule and mind the same thing . and in order hereunto , that they take all opportunities of assuring and convincing them , that the bishops of this church are really and sincerely irreconcilable to the errors , superstitions , idolatries and tyrannies of the church of rome . and that they warmly and most affectionately exhort them , to joyn with us in daily fervent prayer to the god of peace , for an vniversal blessed vnion of all the reformed churches both at home and abroad , against our common enemies , and that all they who do confess the holy name of our dear lord , and do agree in the truth of his holy word , may also meet in one holy communion , and live in perfect vnity and godly love. now seeing the church of england once and again declared her excellent temper and moderation for the preservation of peace and unity ( the great end and design of all church-government ) we have little reason to question her readiness ( at such a time as this is ) to comply with so modest a proposal , as a liberty of using or refusing those ceremonies , which she saith , in their own nature are indifferent and alterable , and upon weighty and important considerations , may be changed , &c. or to grant her consent to such a subscription , in relation to those articles which concern the government and discipline of the church , as are proposed by the learned dean of s. paul's , in the appendix ; especially considering that by this condescention of hers , she will certainly bring into her communion a great number of pious , moderate , and more considerative non-conformists : which will not only add strength to her self , but give a great joy and content to all those who have wish'd well to the peace , unity , and prosperity of this our church and nation ; to which end it would not be amiss that a strict injunction should be laid on the clergy and people to forbear all harsh and unchristian language one towards another , and to observe the apostles rule , of not judging one another . . i would likewise humbly propose , that the rest of the protestant dissenters might be indulged by act of parliament ; provided they neither preached , wrote , nor discours'd against the doctrine or government of the church as by law established ; and that , because charity , which is kind , and thinks no evil , would oblige a sober and indifferent person to believe that the reason of their separation from our church , did chiefly proceed from a tenderness of conscience ( impressed upon them by the force of their education , study , conversation , &c. ) lest in complying with the present established form of worship , they should sin against god , and wound the peace of their own souls : for otherwise , their own present quiet and interest must necessarily have obliged ▪ them to a compliance , they having been under a continual danger and hazard of the execution of the laws established against them ; whereby they have been not only deprived of that maintenance which by the countenance of authority they might otherwise have expected and publickly enjoyed , but exposed to many wants , difficulties , and sufferings . proposals for preventing future divisions . i humbly propose to the wisdom of this present parliament , that an act might be passed , whereby every person ( after a limited term of years ) intending to take holy orders should be incapacitated for any church-preferment , or for a license to preach in private congregations ; who could not give a satisfactory account to the bishop of the diocess where he intended to settle , of his proficiency and ability in church-history and primitive learning , whereby he might be able to give a clear and plain account of what discipline and order were used in the church of god nearest our saviour's and the apostles days ; when differences and errours in doctrine or church-government began first to arise ; with the authors , occasion , and effects thereof . the advantages which must necessarily attend the making of such a law , would be very great both to our interest in church and state ; amongst which i beg leave to name the following . . we might hereby ( for the future ) more assuredly hope for , and expect peace and union amongst our church-men , who having been all well acquainted with primitive learning and practice , with the rise and growth of all heresies , schisms , and divisions in the church , and with the fatal consequences which have attended them ; they would not more rationally than unanimously make choice of one and the same form of worship and discipline , but most heartily unite in their affections to one another , endeavouring with all their strength and power to maintain the church in peace and unity . . by this means we might be assured to enjoy the most learned clergy that ever this nation brought forth , who would not only prove a great bulwark against popery on the one hand , but schism and faction on the other ; and being to well accomplished for the ministerial function ( before they enter into it ) might much more assuredly engage the affection and hearts of their people , by spending ( in private ) the greatest part of the week in instructing them in the principles , and encouraging them in the practice of the christian religion ; a duty , alas , too much neglected in our days ! . we may then hope for preferments to answer every man's merit ; one of the principal reasons why we have more clergy-men than livings , seeming to be this , that a great number of ordinary tradesmen and farmers do send their children to the universities ( being ambitious to make them gentlemen ) though they are unable to maintain them there above three or four years ; in which time such accomplishments are not to be attained as are required by this proposal ; if therefore such a law ( as this ) were once established , they would be willing to bring them up to honest professions and trades , much more suitable for them ; and persons of better estate and quality would be encouraged to bring up their children in the universities , and continue them there until they arrived to that pitch of learning , which would not only render them the honour of their own , but the envy of foreign nations , and also capacitate them for the enjoyment of a preferment suitable to their parents charge , and their own pains and industry ; especially if the king would appropriate the first-fruits and tenths of all ecclesiastical preferments ; or the parliament should think fit to raise a sum of mony for the purchasing impropriations , and endowing livings with such a competency as might enable the incumbents to provide comfortably for themselves and families , and to keep up decent hospitality in their neighbourhood , and would annex those impropriations ( when purchased ) to the bishops and chapters of each diocess , who are to be presumed to be the most competent judges of the abilities of all persons to be entrusted with the care of souls : and for the more effectual success of this important affair , let the bishops be obliged every year to call upon the universities for the names of the most pious , learned and industrious persons in their several colleges . in short , i heartily wish that we might often and seriously remember our blessed saviours prediction , that a kingdom divided against it self , cannot stand ; and likewise consider that fate which attended the faction and division of the iews ; which grew to that height , that they could not forbear destroying each other , even when their declared enemies the romans were coming to besiege their city . from which , good lord deliver us . appendix . his majesty's declaration to all his loving subjects of his kingdom of england and dominion of wales , concerning ecclesiastical affairs . charles r. how much the peace of the state is concerned in the peace of the church , and how difficult a thing it is to preserve order and government in civil , whilest there is no order or government in ecclesiastical affairs , is evident to the world ; and this little part of the world , our own dominions , hath had so late experience of it , that we may very well acquiesce in the conclusion , without enlarging our self in discourse upon it , it being a subject we have had frequent occasion to contemplate upon , and to lament , abroad as well as at home . in our letter to the speaker of the house of commons from breda , we declared how much we desired the advancement and propagation of the protestant religion ; that neither the unkindness of those of the same faith towards us , nor the civilities and obligations from those of a contrary profession ( of both which we have had abundant evidence ) could in the least degree startle us , or make us swerve from it , and that nothing can be proposed to manifest our zeal and affection for it , to which we will not readily consent , and we said then , that we did hope in due time , our self to propose somewhat for the propagation of it , that will satisfie the world , that we have always made it both our care and our study , and have enough observed what is most like to bring disadvantage to it . and the truth is , we do think our self the more competent to propose , and with god's assistance to determine many things now in difference , from the time we have spent , and the experience we have had in most of the reformed churches abroad , in france , in the low-countries , and in germany , where we have had frequent conferences , with the most learned men , who have unanimously lamented the great reproach the protestant religion undergoes from the distempers and too notorious schisms in matters of religion in england : and as the most learned among them have always with great submission and reverence acknowledged and magnified the established government of the church of england , and the great countenance and shelter the protestant religion received from it , before these unhappy times ; so many of them have with great ingenuity and sorrow confessed , that they were too easily misled by mis-information and prejudice into some dis-esteem of it , as if it had too much complyed with the church of rome ; whereas they now acknowledg it to be the best fence god hath yet raised against popery in the world ; and we are perswaded they do with great zeal wish it restored to its old dignity and veneration . when we were in holland , we were attended by many grave and learned ministers from hence , who were looked upon as the most able and principal assertors of the presbyterian opinions , with whom we had as much conference as the multitude of affairs which were then upon us would permit us to have ; and to our great satisfaction and comfort found them persons full of affection to us , of zeal for the peace of the church and state , and neither enemies ( as they have been given out to be ) to episcopacy or liturgy , but modestly to desire such alterations in either , as without shaking foundations , might best allay the present distempers , which the indisposition of the time , and the tenderness of some mens consciences had contracted ; for the better doing whereof , we did intend , upon our first arrival in this kingdom to call a synod of divines , as the most proper expedient to provide a proper remedy for all those differences and dis-satisfactions which had or should arise in matters of religion ; and in the mean time , we published in our declaration from breda a liberty to tender consciences , and that no man should be disquieted or called in question for differences of opinion in matter of religion , which do not disturb the peace of the kingdom , and that we shall be ready to consent to such an act of parliament as upon mature deliberation shall be offered to us , for the full granting that indulgence . whilest we continued in this temper of mind and resolution , and have so far complyed with the perswasion of particular persons , and the distemper of the time , as to be contented with the exercise of our religion in our own chapel , according to the constant practice and laws established , without enjoyning that practice , and the observation of those laws in the churches of the kingdom ; in which we have undergone the censure of many , as if we were without that zeal for the church which we ought to have , and which by god's grace , we shall always retain ; we have found our self not so candidly dealt with as we have deserved , and that there are unquiet and restless spirits , who without abating any of their own distemper in recompence of the moderation they find in us , continue their bitterness against the church , and endeavour to raise jealousies of us , and to lessen our reputation by their reproaches , as if we were not true to the professions vve have made : and in ●●der thereunto , they have very unseasonably caused to be printed , published , and dispersed throughout the kingdom a declaration heretofore printed in our name during the time of our being in scotland , of which we shall say no more than that the circumstances by which we were enforced to sign that declaration , are enough known to the world ; and that the worthiest and greatest part of that nation did even then detest and abhorr the ill usage of us in that particular , when the same tyranny was exercised there by the power of a few ill men , which at that time had spread it self over this kingdom , and therefore we had no reason to expect that we should at this season , when we are doing all we can to wipe out the memory of all that hath been done amiss by other men , and , we thank god , have wiped it out of our own remembrance , have been our self assaulted with those reproaches ; which we will likewise forget . since the printing this declaration , several seditious pamphlets and quaeries have been published and scattered abroad , to infuse dislike and jealousies into the hearts of the people , and of the army , and some who ought rather to have repented the former mischief they have wrought , than to have endeavoured to improve it , have had the hardiness to publish , that the doctrine of the church , against which , no man with whom we have conferred hath excepted , ought to be reformed as well as the discipline . this over-passionate and turbulent way of proceeding , and the impatience we find in many for some speedy determination in these matters , whereby the minds of men may be composed , and the peace of the church established , hath prevailed with us to invert the method we had proposed to our self , and even in order to the better calling and composing of a synod ( which the present jealousies will hardly agree upon ) by the assistance of god's blessed spirit , which we daily invoke and supplicate , to give some determination our self to the matters in difference , until such a synod may be called , as may without passion or prejudice , give us such farther assistance towards a perfect union of affections , as well as submission to authority , as is necessary : and we are the rather induced to take this upon us , by finding upon the full conference we have had with the learned men of several perswasions , that the mischiefs , under which both the church and state do at present suffer , do not result from any form'd doctrine or conclusion which either party mainta●● 〈◊〉 avows , but from the passion and appetite , and interest of particular persons , who contract greater prejudice to each other , from those affections , than would naturally rise from their opinions ; and those distempers must be in some degree allayed , before the meeting in a synod can be attended with better success , than their meeting in other places , and their discourses in pulpits have hitherto been ; and till all thoughts of victory are laid aside , the humble and necessary thoughts for the vindication of truth cannot be enough entertained . we must for the honour of all those of either perswasion with whom we have conferred , declare that the professions and desires of all for the advancement of piety and true godliness , are the same ; their professions of zeal for the peace of the church , the same ; of affection and duty to us , the same ; they all approve episcopacy ; they all approve a set form of liturgy ; and they all disprove and dislike the sin of sacriledge , and the alienation of the revenue of the church ; and if upon these excellent foundations , in submission to which there is such a harmony of affections , any superstructures should be raised , to the shaking those foundations , and to the contracting and lessening the blessed gift of charity , which is a vital part of christian religion , we shall think our self very unfortunate , and even suspect that we are defective in that administration of government , with which god hath entrusted us. we need not profess the high affection and esteem we have for the church of england as it is established by law ; the reverence to which hath supported us with gods blessing , against many temptations ; nor do we think that reverence in the least degree diminished by our condescentions , not peremptorily to insist on some particulars of ceremony , which , however introduced by the piety and devotion ; and order of former times , may not be so agreeable to the present , but may even lessen that piety and devotion , for the improvement whereof they might happily be first introduced , and consequently may well be dispensed with ; and we hope this charitable compliance of ours will dispose the minds of all men to a chearful submission to that authority , the preservation whereof is so necessary for the unity and peace of the church ; and that they will acknowledge the support of the episcopal authority , to be the best support of religion , by being the best means to contain the minds of men within the rules of government : and they who would restrain the exercise of that holy function within the rules which were observed in the primitive times , must remember and consider , that the ecclesiastical power being in those blessed times always subordinate and subject to the civil ; it was likewise proportioned to such an extent of jurisdiction as was most agreeable to that ; and as the sanctity and simplicity , and resignation of that age , did then refer many things to the bishops , which the policy of succeeding ages would not admit , at least did otherwise provide for ; so it can be no reproach to primitive episcopacy , if where there have been great alterations in the civil government , from what was then , there have been likewise some difference and alteration in the ecclesiastical , the essence and foundation being still preserved . and upon this ground , without taking upon us to censure the government of the church in other countries , where the government of the state is different from what it is here , or enlarging our self upon the reasons why , whilst there was an imagination of erecting a democratical government here in the state , they should be willing to continue an aristocratical government in the church ; it shall suffice to say , that since by the wonderful blessing of god , the hearts of this whole nation are returned to an obedience to monarchick government in the state , it must be very reasonable to support that government in the church which is established by law , and with which the monarchy hath flourished through so many ages , and which is in truth as ancient in this island as the christian monarchy thereof ; and which hath always in some respects or degrees been enlarged or restrained , as hath been thought most conducing to the peace and happiness of the kingdom ; and therefore we have not the least doubt but that the present bishops will think the present concessions now made by us to allay the present distempers , very just and reasonable , and will very chearfully conform themselves thereunto . . we do in the first place declare our purpose and resolution is and shall be , to promote the power of godliness , to encourage the exercises of religion , both publick and private , and to take care that the lord's day be applied to holy exercises , without unnecessary divertisments ; and that insufficient , negligent , and scandalous ministers be not permitted in the church ; and that as the present bishops are known to be men of great and exemplar piety in their lives , which they have manifested in their notorious and unexampled sufferings during these late distempers ; and of great and known sufficiency of learning ; so we shall take special care , by the assistance of god , to prefer no men to that office and charge , but men of learning , vertue , and piety , who may be themselves the best examples to those who are to be governed by them ; and we shall expect , and provide the best we can , that the bishops be frequent preachers , and that they do very often preach themselves in some church of their diocess , except they be hindred by sickness , or other bodily infirmities , or some other justifiable occasion , which shall not be thought justifiable if it be requent . . because the diocesses , especially some of them , are thought to be of too large extent : we will appoint such a number of suffragan bishops in every diocess as shall be sufficient for the due performance of their work . . no bishop shall ordain , or exercise any part of jurisdiction which appertains to the censures of the church , without the advice and assistance of the presbyters ; and no chancellors , commissaries , or officials , as such , shall exercise any act of spiritual jurisdiction in these cases ( viz. ) excommunication , absolution , or wherein any of the ministry are concerned , with reference to their pastoral charge . however our intent and meaning is to uphold and maintein the profession of the civil law so far and in such matters as it hath been of use and practice within our kingdoms and dominions ; albeit as to excommunication , our will and pleasure is , that no chancellor , commissary , or official shall decree any sentence of excommunication or absolution , or be judges in those things wherein any of the ministry are concerned , as is aforesaid . nor shall the arch-deacon exercise any jurisdiction without the advice and assistance of six ministers of his arch-deaconcy , whereof three to be nominated by the bishop , and three by the election of the major part of the presbyters within the arch-deaconry . . to the end that the deans and chapters may be the better fitted to afford counsel and assistance to the bishops , both in ordination and the other offices mentioned before ; we will take care that those preferments be given to the most learned and pious presbyters of the diocess ; and moreover that an equal number ( to those of the chapter ) of the most learned , pious , and discreet presbyters of the same diocess , annually chosen by the major vote of all the presbyters of that diocess present at such elections , shall be always advising and assisting , together with those of the chapter , in all ordinations , and in every part of jurisdiction which appertains to the censures of the church , and at all other solemn and important actions in the exercise of the ecclesiastical jurisdiction , wherein any of the ministry are concerned : provided that at all such meetings , the number of the ministers so elected , and those present of the chapter shall be equal , and not exceed one the other , and that to make the numbers equal , the juniors of the exceeding number be withdrawn that the most ancient may take place : nor shall any suffragan bishop ordain or exercise the fore-mentioned offices and acts of spiritual jurisdiction , but with the advice and assistance of a sufficient number of the most judicious and pious presbyters annually chosen as aforesaid within his precincts : and our will is that the great work of ordination be constantly and solemnly performed by the bishop and his aforesaid presbytery , at the four set times and seasons appointed by the church for that purpose . . we will take care that confirmation be rightly and solemnly performed , by the information , and with the consent of the minister of the place ; who shall admit none to the lord's supper , till they have made a credible profession of their faith , and promised obedience to the will of god ; according as is expressed in the considerations of the rubrick before the catechism ; and that all possible diligence be used for the instruction and reformation of scandalous offenders , whom the minister shall not suffer to partake of the lord's table , until they have openly declared themselves to have truly repented and amended their former naughty lives , as is partly exprest in the rubrick , and more fully in the canons ; provided there be place for due appeals to superiour powers . but besides the suffragans and their presbytery , every rural dean ( those deans , as heretofore , to be nominated by the bishop of the diocess ) together with three or four ministers of that deanery , chosen by the major part of all the ministers within the same , shall meet once in every month , to receive such complaints as shall be presented to them by the ministers or church-wardens of the respective parishes ; and also to compose all such differences betwixt party and party , as shall be referred unto them by way of arbitration , and to convince offenders , and reform all such things as they find amiss by their pastoral reproofs and admonitions , if they may be so reformed : and such matters as they cannot by this pastoral and perswasive way compose and reform , are by them to be prepared for , and presented to the bishop ; at which meeting any other ministers of that deanery , may , if they please , be present and assist . moreover , the rural dean and his assistants are in their respective divisions to see that the children and younger sort be carefully instructed by the respective ministers of every parish , in the grounds of christian religon , and be able to give a good account of their faith and knowledge , and also of their christian conversation conformable thereunto , before they be confirmed by the bishop , or admitted to the sacrament of the lord's supper . . no bishop shall exercise any arbitrary power , or do or impose any thing upon the clergy or the people , but what is according to the known law of the land. . we are very glad to find , that all with whom we have conferred , do in their judgments approve a liturgy , or set form of publick worship , to be lawful ; which in our judgment , for the preservation of unity and uniformity , we conceive to be very necessary : and though we do esteem the liturgy of the church of england , conteined in the book of common prayer , and by law established , to be the best we have seen ; and we believe that we have seen all that are extant and used in this part of the world , and well know what reverence most of the reformed churches , or at least the most learned men in those churches have for it ; yet since we find some exceptions made against several things therein . we will appoint an equal number of learned divines of both perswasions , to re-view the same , and to make such alterations as shall be thought most necessary ; and some additional forms ( in the scripture phrase , as near as may be ) suited unto the nature of the several parts of worship , and that it be left to the ministers choice to use one or other at his discretion . in the mean time , and till this be done , although we do heartily wish and desire , that the ministers in their several churches , because they dislike some clauses and expressions , would not totally lay aside the use of the book of common prayer , but read those parts against which there can be no exception ; which would be the best instance of declining those marks of distinction , which we so much labour and desire to remove ; yet in compassion to divers of our good subjects , who scruple the use of it , as now it is . our will and pleasure is , that none be punished or troubled for not using it , until it be reviewed , and effectually reformed , as aforesaid . . lastly , concerning ceremonies , which have administred so much matter of difference and contention , and which have been introduced by the wisdom and authority of the church , for edification , and the improvement of piety : we shall say no more , but that we have the more esteem of all , and reverence for many of them , by having been present in many of those churches where they are most abolished , or discountenanced ; and it cannot be doubted , but that , as the universal church cannot introduce one ceremony in the worship of god , that is contrary to god's word expressed in the scripture ; so every national church , with the approbation and consent of the sovereign power , may , and hath always introduced such particular ceremonies , as in that conjuncture of time are thought most proper for edification and the necessary improvement of piety and devotion in the people , though the necessary practice thereof cannot be deduced from scripture ; and that which before was , and in it self is indifferent , ceases to be indifferent , after it is once established by law : and therefore our present consideration and work is , to gratifie the private consciences of those who are grieved with the use of some ceremonies , by indulging to , and dispensing with their omitting those ceremonies ; not utterly to abolish any which are established by law , ( if any are practised contrary to law , the same shall cease ) which would be unjust , and of ill example ; and to impose upon the conscience of some , for the satisfaction of the conscience of others , which is otherwise provided for . as it could not be reasonable that men should expect , that we should our self decline , or enjoyn others to do so , to receive the blessed sacrament upon our knees , which in our conscience is the most humble , most devout , and most agreeable posture for that holy duty , because some other men , upon reasons best , if not only known to themselves , choose rather to do it fitting or standing : we shall leave all decisions and determinations of that kind , if they shall be thought necessary for a perfect and entire unity and uniformity throughout the nation , to the advice of a national synod , which shall be duly called , after a little time , and a mutual conversation between persons of different perswasions , hath mollified those distempers , abated those sharpnesses , and extinguished those jealousies which make men unfit for those consultations ; and upon such advice , we shall use our best endeavor that such laws may be established , as may best provide for the peace of the church and state. provided that none shall be denied the sacrament of the lord's supper , though they do not use the gesture of kneeling in the act of receiving . in the mean time , out of compassion and compliance towards those who would forbear the cross in baptism , we are content that no man shall be compelled to use the same , or suffer for not doing it : but if any parent desire to have his child christned according to the form used , and the minister will not use the sign , it shall be lawful for that parent to procure another minister to do it : and if the proper minister shall refuse to omit that ceremony of the cross , it shall be lawful for the parent , who would not have his child so baptised , to procure another minister to do it , who will do it according to his desire . no man shall be compelled to bow at the name of jesus , or suffer in any degree for not doing it , without reproaching those who out of their devotion continue that ancient ceremony of the church . for the use of the surplice , we are contented that all men be left to their liberty to do as they shall think fit , without suffering in the least degree for wearing , or not wearing it ; provided , that this liberty do not extend to our own chappel , cathedral , or collegiate churches , or to any colledge in either of our universities ; but that the several statutes and customs for the use thereof in the said places , be there observed as formerly . and because some men , otherwise pious and learned , say , they cannot conform unto the subscription required by the canon , nor take the oath of canonical obedience ; we are content , and it is our will and pleasure , ( so they take the oaths of allegiance and supremacy ) that they shall receive ordination , institution , and induction , and shall be permitted to exercise their function , and to enjoy the profits of their livings , without the said subscription or oath of canonical obedience : and moreover , that no persons in the universities shall for the want of such subscription be hindred in the taking of their degrees . lastly , that none be judged to forfeit his presentation or benefice , or be deprived of it , upon the statute of the thirteenth of queen elizabeth , chapter the twelth , so he read and declare his assent to all the articles of religion , which only concern the confession of the true christian faith , and the doctrine of the sacraments comprised in the book of articles in the said statute mentioned . in a word , we do again renew what we have formerly said in our declaration from breda , for the liberty of tender consciences , that no man shall be disquieted or called in question for differences of opinion in matters of religion , which do not disturb the peace of the kingdom ; and if any have been disturbed in that kind since our arrival here , it hath not proceeded from any direction of ours . to conclude , and in this place to explain what we mentioned before , and said in our letter to the house of commons from breda , that we hoped in due time , our self to propose somewhat for the propagation of the protestant religion , that will satisfie the world , that we have always made it both our care and our study , and have enough observed what is most like to bring disadvantage to it : we do conjure all our loving subjects to acquiesce in , and submit this our declaration concerning those differences which have so much disquieted the nation at home , and given such offence to the protestant churches abroad , and brought such reproach upon the protestant religion in general , from the enemies thereof ; as if upon obscure notions of faith and fancy , it did admit the practice of christian duties and obedience to be discountenanced and suspended , and introduce a licence in opinions and manners , to the prejudice of the christian faith. and let us all endeavour , and emulate each other in those endeavours , to countenance and advance the protestant religion abroad , which will be best done by supporting the dignity and reverence due to the best reformed protestant church at home ; and which being once freed from the calumnies and reproaches it hath undergone from these late ill times , will be the best shelter for those abroad , which will by that countenance both be the better protected against their enemies , and be the more easily induced to compose the differences amongst themselves , which give their enemies more advantage against them : and we hope and expect that all men will henceforward forbear to vent any such doctrine in the pulpit , or to endeavour to work in such manner upon the affections of the people , as may dispose them to an ill opinion of us and the government , and to disturb the peace of the kingdom . which if all men will in their several vocations endeavour to preserve with the same affection and zeal we our self will do ; all our good subjects will by gods blessing upon us enjoy as great a measure of felicity , as this nation hath ever done , and which we shall constantly labour to procure for them , as the greatest blessing god can bestow upon us in this world. given at our court at whitehall this twenty fifth day of october . . the reverend dean of pauls his proposals or terms of vnion , betwixt the church of england and the dissenters : taken out of his preface to the vnreasonableness of separation , pag. , , , , , , , , , , , , , . is there nothing to be done for dissenting protestants , who agree with us in all doctrinal articles of our church , and only scruple the use of a few ceremonies , and some late impositions ? shall these differences still be continued , when they may be so easily removed ? and so many useful men be encouraged , and taken into the constitution ? do we value a few indifferent ceremonies , and some late declarations , and doubtful expressions , beyond the satisfaction of mens consciences , and the peace and stability of this church ? as to this material question , i shall crave leave to deliver my opinion freely and impartially ; and that , i. with respect to the case of the people ; the terms of whose union with us , is acknowledged by our brethren to be so much easier than their own . but these are of two sorts : . some allow the use of the liturgy , but say they cannot joyn in communion with us , because the participation of the sacraments hath such rites and ceremonies annexed to it , which they think unlawful ; and therefore till these be removed , or left indifferent , they dare not joyn with us in baptism or the lord's supper ; because in the one the cross is used , and in the other kneeling is required . as to these i answer , ( . ) upon the most diligent search i could make into these things , i find no good ground for any scruple of conscience , as to to the use of these ceremonies ; and as little as any as to the sign of the cross , as it is used in our church ; notwithstanding all the noise that hath been made about its being a new sacrament , and i knew not what ; but of this at large in the following treatise . ( . ) i see no ground for the peoples separation from other acts of communion , on the account of some rites they suspect to be unlawful : and especially when the use of such rites is none of their own act , as the cross in baptism is not ; and when such an explication is annexed concerning the intention of kneeling at the lord's supper , as is in the rubrick after the communion . ( . ) notwithstanding , because the use of sacraments in a christian church , ought to be the most free from all exceptions , and they ought to be so administred , as rather to invite than discourage scrupulous persons from joyning in them : i do think it would be a part of christian wisdom and condescention in the governors of our church , to remove those bars from a freedom in joyning in full communion with us . which may be done , either by wholly taking away the sign of the cross ; or if that may give offence to others , by confining the use of it to the publick administration of baptism ; or by leaving it indifferent , as the parents desire it . as to kneeling at the lord's supper , since some posture is necessary , and many devout people scruple any other , and the primitive church did in ancient times receive it in the posture of adoration , there is no reason to take this away , even in parochial churches ; provided that those who scruple kneelling , do receive it with the least offence to others , and rather standing than sitting , because the former is most agreeable to the practice of antiquity , and of our neighbour-reformed churches . as to the surplice in parochial churches , it is not of that consequ●nce as to bear a dispute one way or other ; and as to cathedr●l churches , there is no necessity of alteration . but there is another thing which seems to be of late much scrupled in baptism , viz. the use of god fathers and god-mothers exc●●●ing the parents . although i do not question , but the practice of our church may be justified , ( as i have done it towards the end of the following treatise , ) yet i see no necessity of adhering 〈◊〉 strictly to the canon herein , but that a little alteration may ●revent these scruples , either by permitting the parents to joyn with the sponsors ; or by the parents publickly desiring the sponsors to represent them in offering the child to baptism ; or which seems most agreeable to reason , that the parents offer the child to baptism , and then the sponsors perform the covenanting part ; representing the child ; and the charge after baptism be given in common to the parents and sponsors . these things being allowed , i see no obstruction remaining as to a full union of the body of such dissenters with us , in all acts of divine worship , and christian communion , as do not reject all communion with us as unlawful . . but because there are many of those , who are become zealous protestants , and plead much their communion with us in faith and doctrine , although they cannot joyn with us in worship , because they deny the lawfulness of liturgies , and the right constitution of our churches ; their case deserves some consideration , whether and how far they are capable of being made serviceable to the common interest , and to the support of the protestant religion among us . to their case i answer , first , that a general unlimited toleration to dissenting protestants , will soon bring confusion among us , and in the end popery , as i have shewed already ; and a suspension of all the penal laws that relate to dissenters is the same thing with a boundless toleration . secondly , if any present favours be granted to such , in consideration of our circumstances , and to prevent their conjunction with the papists , for a general toleration , ( for if ever the papists obtain it , it must be under their name : ) if , i say , such favour be thought fit to be shewed them , it ought to be with such restrictions and limitations as may prevent the mischief which may easily follow upon it : for all such meetings are a perpetual reproach to our churches , by their declaring , that our churches are no true churches ; that our manner of worship is unlawful ; and that our church-government is antichristian ; and that on these accounts they separate from us , and worship god by themselves . but if such an indulgence be thought fit to be granted , i humbly offer these things to consideration . . that none be permitted to enjoy the priviledge of it , who do not declare , that they do hold communion with our churches to be unlawful . for it seems unreasonable to allow it to others , and will give countenance to endless and causeless separations . . that all who enjoy it , besides taking the test against popery , do subscribe the thirty six articles of our faith , because the pretence of this liberty , is joyning with us in points of faith ; and this may more probably prevent papists getting in amongst them . . that all such as enjoy it , must declare the particular congregations they are of and enter their names before such commissioners as shall be authorized for that purpose ; that so this may be no pretence for idle , loose , and prophane persons , never going to any church at all . . that both preachers and congregations be liable to severe penalties , if they use any bitter or reproachful words , either in sermons or writings , against the established constitution of our churches ; because they desire only the freedom of their own consciences ; and the using this liberty , will discover it is not conscience , but a turbulent , factious humour , which makes them separate from our communion . . that all indulged persons be particularly obliged to pay all legal duties to the parochial churches , ( lest meer covetousness tempt men to run among them ) and no persons so indulged , be capable of any publick office. it not being reasonable that such should be trusted with government , who look upon the worship established by law as unlawful . . that no other penalty be laid on such indulged persons , but that of twelve pence a sunday for their absence from their parochial churches , which ought to be duly collected for the use of the poor , and cannot be complained of as any heavy burthen , considering the liberty they do enjoy by it . . that the bishops , as visitors appointed by law , have an exact account given to them , of the rule of their worship and discipline , and of all the persons belonging to the indulged congregations , with their qualities and places of abode ; and that none be admitted a member of any such congregation without acquainting their visitor with it , that so means may be used to prevent their leaving our communion , by giving satisfaction to their scruples . this power of the bishops cannot be scrupled by them , since herein they are considered as commissioners appointed by law. . that no indulged persons presume under severe penalties to breed up scholars , or to teach gentlemens sons university-learning ; because this may be justly looked on as a design to propagate schism to posterity , and to lay a foundation for the disturbance of future generations . ii. as to the case of the ejected ministers , i have these things to offer : . that bare subscription of the thirty six articles concerning doctrinal points , be not allowed as sufficient to qualifie any man for a living , or any church-preferment , for these reasons . first , any lay-man upon these terms may not only be capable of a living , but may take upon him to administer the sacraments ; which was never allowed in any well-constituted church in the christian world. and such an allowance among us , instead of setling and uniting us , will immediately bring things into great confusion , and give mighty advantage to the papists against our church . and we have reason to fear , a design of this nature , under a pretence of union of protestants , tends to the subversion of this church , and throwing all things into confusion , which at last will end in popery . secondly , this will bring a faction into the church , which will more endanger it than external opposition . for such men will come in triumphantly , having beaten down three of the thirty nine articles ; and being in legal possession of their places , will be ready to defie and contemn those who submitted to the rest , and to glory in their conquests , and draw followers after them , as the victorious confessors against prelacy and ceremonies . and can they imagine those of the church of england will see the reputation of the church , or their own , to suffer so much , and not appear in their own vindication ? things are not come to that pass , nor will they suddenly be , that the friends , of the church of england will be either afraid , or ashamed to own her cause , we do heartily and sincerely desire union with our brethren , if it may be had on just and reasonable terms ; but they must not think , that we will give up the cause of the church for it , so as to condemn its constitution , or make the ceremonies unlawful , which have been hitherto observed and practised in it . if any expedient can be found out for the ease of other mens consciences , without reflecting on our own ; if they can be taken in , without reproach or dishonour to the reformation of the church ; i hope no true son of the church of england will oppose it . but if the design be to bring them in as a faction to bridle and controll the episcopal power , by setting up forty bishops in a diocess against one ; if it be for them to trample upon the church of england , and not to submit to its order and government upon fair and moderate terms , let them not call this a design of union , but the giving law to a party to oppose the church of england . and what the success of this will be , let wise men judge . thirdly , if a subscription to thirty six articles were sufficient by the statute eliz. c. . i do not understand how by virtue of that statute a man is bound publickly to read the thirty nine articles in the church , and the testimonial of his subscription , on pain of being deprived ipso facto , if he do not . for the l. ch. i. coke saith , that subscription to the articles is required by force of the act of parliament , eliz : c. . and he adds , that the delinquent is disabled and deprived ipso facto ; and that a conditional subscription to them was not sufficient , was resolved by all the judges in england . but how a man should be depriued ipso facto for not subscribing , and reading the articles , as appears by the cases mentioned in coke , and yet be required only to subscribe to , by the same statute , is a thing too hard for me to conceive . . but notwithstanding this , if any temper can be found out , as to the manner of subscription , that may give ease to the scruples of our brethren , and secure the peace of the church , the desired union may be attained without that apparent danger of increasing the factions among us . and this i suppose may be done , by an absolute subscription to all those articles which concern the doctrine of the true christian faith , and the use of the sacraments ; and a solemn promise under their hand , or subscription of peaceable submission , as to the rest , so as not to oppose or contradict them , either in preaching or writing ; upon the same penalty as if they had not subscribed to the . which may be a more probable means to keep the church in quiet , than forcing a more rigorous subscription upon them , or leaving them at their full liberty . . as to the other subscription required , jac. to the articles . the first is provided for by the oaths of allegiance and supremacy . the third is the same with the subscription to the articles . and as to the second , about the book of common-prayer , &c. it ought to be considered , ( . ) whether , for the satisfaction of the scrupulous , some more doubtful and obscure passages may not yet be explained or amended ? whether the new translation of the psalms were not fitter to be used , at least in parochial churches ? whether portions of canonical scripture were not better put in stead of apocrypha lessons ? whether the rubrick about salvation of infants , might not be restored to its former place , in the office of confirmation , and so the present exceptions against it be removed ? whether those expressions which suppose the strict exercise of discipline , in burying the dead , were not better left at liberty in our present case ? such a review made by wise and peaceable men , not given to wrath and disputing , may be so far from being a dishonour to this church , that it may add to the glory of it . ( . ) upon such a review , whether it be not great reason that all persons who officiate in the church , be not only tied to a constant use of it in all publick offices , ( as often as they administer them ) which they ought in person frequently to do ; but to declare at their first entrance upon a parochial charge , their approbation of the use of it , after their own reading of it , that so the people may not suspect them to carry on a factious design , under an outward pretence of conformity to the rules of the church they live in . ( . ) whether , such a solemn using the liturgy , and approbation and promise of the use of it , may not be sufficient , in stead of the late form of declaring their assent and consent , which hath been so much scrupled by our brethren ? these are all the things which appear to me reasonable to be allowed in order to an union , and which i suppose may be granted without detriment or dishonour to our church . there are other things very desirable towards the happiness and flourishing of this church ; as the exercise of discipline in parochial churches , in a due subordination to the bishop ; the reforming the ecclesiastical courts as to excommunication , without prejudice to the excellent profession of the civil law ; the building of more churches in great parishes , especially about the city of london ; the retrenching pluralities ; the strictness and solemnity of ordinations ; the making a book of canons suitable to this age , for the better regulating the conversations of the clergy . such things as these , might facilitate our union , and make our church in spight of all its enemies become a praise in the whole earth . a specimen of a bill , for vniting protestants ; being a rough draught of such terms , as seem equal for the conformist to grant , and the non-conformist to yield to , for peace sake , provided a good while , and published on purpose only for the farther , better , and more easie consideration of the parliament . whereas , there are many jealousies risen about : popery , which makes it even necessary to the peace of the nation , that the protestant interest be united and strengthened by all good and lawful means : and to this end , there being this one proper expedient ; to wit ; the removing the occasion of divisions , which several persons do find to themselves in those late injunctions , which yet were intended to the same purpose of concord in the nation : be it enacted — that an explanation of these impositions , and such alleviations , be allowed to the tenderly considerate , and peaceably scrupulous , as follow . in the act of uniformity , by the declaration of assent and consent to all things , and every thing contained in , and prescribed by the two books of common prayer , and of ordering priests and deacons , we understand not , that these books are in every minute particular , infallible , or free from that defect , which is incident to all human composure : but that they are in the main contents , to be sincerely approved and used . and we do therefore allow this declaration to be sufficient , if it be made to the use of the book , in the ordinary constant lords-days-service , notwithstanding any exceptions some may have against some things in the by-offices , and occasional service , the rubrick , and otherwise . and for the ceremonies which are made , and have been always , and on all hands , held to be only indifferent things , we think fit that they be left to the consciences and prudence of ministers , and people , every where ( excepting the cathedrals ) to use them , or forbear them , as they judge it most meet for their own and others edification , provided that if any person will have his child baptized with the sign of the cross , or stands upon any thing else , hitherto required by the service-book , if the minister himself scruple the performance , he shall permit another to do it . in the same act , by those words in the subscription , that it is not lawful to take arms against the king , upon any pretence whatsoever ; we intend no new or strange thing , but the rightful maintenance only of the king's authority against rebellion , according to the common determination of learned writers , in the case of subjection to princes . by the words , i abhor the position of taking arms by the authority of the king , against any commissionated by him , we never thought of advancing the arbitrary commissions of the king above law ; but by those commissionated by him , we understand such as are legally commissionated , and in the legal pursuit of such commissions . by the clause which follows , that requires a renunciation of all endeavour of any alteration of government in the church or state , we never meant to deny any free-born subject his right , of choosing parliament-men , or acting in in his place for the common good any way , according to law ; but that he shall renounce all such endeavour , as is seditious , or not warranted by the constitution of the nation ; and particularly , such an endeavour as was assumed in the late times , without , and against the consent of the king : and for the rest of the subscription , which is enjoyned but to the year . be it enacted , that it cease presently , and be no longer enjoyned . and forasmuch as there is an oath prescribed and required of all non-conformists preachers , that reside in any corporate town , by a certain act of the former parliament , made at oxford in the th . year of his now majesties reign , entituled , an act for restraining non-conformists , from inhabiting corporations : we do further declare , that it shall suffice any man , for the enjoyment of his free born liberty , of inhabiting where he thinks best ; and serve him also instead of the fore-mentioned subscription ; to take that oath in this form of words following . i a. b. do swear , that i hold it unlawful upon any pretence , to take arms against the king , his government or laws : and that i disclaim that dangerous position , of taking arms by his authority , against his person , or any legally commissionated by him , in the legal pursuit of such commissions : and that i will not endeavour any alteration of government in the church or state , in any way or manner , not warrantted by the constitution of the kingdom , or any otherwise than by act of parliament : and as soon as any man has taken the oath thus , he shall be discharged of all penalty for his omission before . we do declare moreover , that whereas it is required also in the act of uniformity , that every minister who injoys any living or ecclesiastical preferment , shall be ordained by a bishop ; and there are several persons of late , who in case of necessity , for want of bishops took presbyterian-orders : our meaning is not in any wise to disgust the reformed churches beyond the seas , and make it necessary for such to be re-ordained to the office ; but that they receive this second imposition of hands to the exercise of their office in the new charge , unto which they are , or shall be called ; and that the bishop shall frame his words accordingly . and whereas there is a subscription also in the canons , and the canonical-oath of obedience , imposed on most ministers by the bishops , that have given some of the greatest occasion to non-conformity heretofore ; which yet never passed into law by any act of parliament : we do further declare , that nothing more of that kind shall be required of ministers hence forward , than was made and held necessary by the act of the thirteenth of elizabeth . and in regard there hath been great offence taken by conscientious ministers , at the bishops , ( or their courts ) commanding them to read the sentence of excommunication against some or other of their parish , for such faults as they think not at all worthy of so great a censure : we declare it but a just thing , that every minister be first satisfied in the cause , or else be exempted from the execution of that charge ; and that the bishop ( or his court ) provide some other person that is satisfied about it , to do it . and to the intent that a free search after truth may not be discouraged in the pursuit of concord , and many other scruples avoided upon that account : we declare , that though an authentick interpretation be required , as to the substance of all laws , yet in the articles of the church , ( which are theses for agreement , and not laws ) and the homilies , a doctrinal interpretation shall be held sufficient for an assent or subscription to them . and because the very superintendency of bishops , and that subjection to them which is required by the constitution of the realm , is , or may be an hindrance to many sober ministers , and other protestants , of coming into the church , who are ready to consent to the doctrine , but not to the discipline or government of it : we do declare , that so long as any person or party do acknowledge the king's supremacy , as head of the church in this nation , and obey their ordinary , or the bishops , in licitis & honestis , upon the account of his authority , ( committed to them for the exercise of that external regiment , circa sacra , which is granted by all our divines to the higher powers in every nation ) it is enough for the owning episcopal iurisdiction ( so far as they do own it , in the declaration of assent and consent , or in any other part of conformity ; ) and shall serve them to all intents and purposes in law , no lets than a professed belief and acknowledgment of the immediate divine right of it . be it therefore enacted by this present parliament , that if any person be willing to conform to the present establishment of the church of england , and her service appointed according to these explanations , alleviations , declarations , lenitives , or cautions , he shall be admitted to any ecclesiastical preferment , and enjoy the use of his ministry without any molestation : all statutes , canons , or laws to the contrary notwithstanding . and for the making this act of better signification to the concerned , and the prevention of that scandal which is raised on the clergy , through the covetousness of some , in heaping up to themselves all the preferments they can get , when others have scarce subsistence for their families , and the souls of many people are thereby neglected : be it farther enacted , that no clergy-men for the three next years ensuing , be suffered to enjoy any more than one living or cure of souls , and one dignity , ( or other ecclesiastical preferment ) at one time ; and that every man ( without exception ) that hath more than one of either , shall immediately give up the rest to be distributed among those who shall be brought off from their non-conformity , upon the terms of this act , into the established order . which that they may also be obtained , and possessed with a clean conscience , and that grievous curruption of simony may be extirpate out of the land : be it enacted moreover , that every patron that shall hence forward present his clerk to any living , shall have the oath , called the simonical oath , imposed on him , no less than on the incumbent : and if he refuses to take it , that then the bishop shall have immediate power ( taking only the same oath ) of presentation in his room . and forasmuch , as there are some ministers of a good life , that cannot ( according to their judgments ) allow of our parochial churches , nor a book of liturgy : but do choose to worship god , and jesus christ in the way of their gathered or separate congregations , and crave the protection and clemency of the king , upon their allegiance , as other subjects : be it finally enacted , for the happiness and quiet of the realm , and the reduction of these men by other means than those which have hitherto proved unsuccessful ; that every christian subject throughout the land , that profess the reformed religion , and be not convict of popery , be pardoned all faults and penalties , incurred upon the account of any fore-passed non-conformity ; and that they shall not , during these seven years next ensuing , be prosecuted upon any penal law , for their consciences , in the matter of religion ; they carrying themselves innocently and peaceably , with submission to the civil , and without disturbance to the ecclesiastical government , now settled in the nation : all statutes to the contrary notwithstanding . in short , a repeal of our laws about conformity unto the th of elizabeth ; or , a new act of uniformity ; or , the king's declaration concerning ecclesiastical affairs , at his first coming in , turn'd into a law , were comprehension . his latter declaration to all his loving subjects , ( some few things in both , yet a little considered ) made so , were indulgence . a bill of comprehension with indulgence , both together , will do our business . an addition , or clause in it against pluralities , will do it with supererogation . deo gloria . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e hooker's preface to his ecclesiastical polity , printed anno . p. , . hooker's preface to his ecclesiastical polity , p. . dr. stillingfleet's irenicu● p. . . preface to the common-prayer . dr. tillotson's sermon , preached at the yorkshire-feast . an. . p. . dr. sherlock's sermon , preached before the lord mayor . nov. . notes for div a -e co. inst. . part. , an answer to the paper delivered by mr. ashton at his execution to sir francis child ... together with the paper itself. fowler, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an answer to the paper delivered by mr. ashton at his execution to sir francis child ... together with the paper itself. fowler, edward, - . ashton, john, d. . child, francis, sir, - . stillingfleet, edward, - . [i.e. ] p. printed for robert clavell ..., london : . also attributed to edward stillingfleet. reproduction of the original in the harvard university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng last letters before death. great britain -- history -- restoration, - . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion white-hall , march . . let this be printed . sydney . an answer to the paper delivered by m r ashton at his execution to sir francis child : sheriff of london , &c. together with the paper it self . london : printed for robert clavell , at the peacock in s. paul's church-yard . . m r. ashton's paper . mr. sheriffe , having observed that the methods of making speeches at the place of execution was not alwayes attended with the designed success ; and thinking it better to imploy my last minutes in devotion and holy communion with my god ; i have prepared this paper to leave in your hands , as well to assert my principles as to testifie my innocency . as to my religion i professe , by god's grace , i dye in the faith into which i was baptized , that of the church of england , in whose communion ( nothing doubting of my salvation thro the merits of my saviour ) i have alwayes thought my selfe safe and happy ; according to her principles and late much esteemed doctrines ( tho now unhappily exploded ) i have regulated my life , beleiving my selfe obliged by my religion to looke upon my rightfull lawfull prince ( whatever his principles were or his practises might be ) as god's vicegerent , and accountable ( if guilty of male-administration ) to god only , from whom he received his power , and alwayes beleiving it to be contrary to the laws of god , the church , and the realme , upon any pretence whatsoever to take up arms against him , and let all the world take notice , in this beleife i dye . but i have more particular obligation to the king my master , whom i have had the honour to serve , and received many signal favours from him , for sixteen years past , so that gratitude ( a thing not much esteemed at this time ) as well as duty and religion commanded the utmost service i could pay him ; and when i add these considerations that we were born his liege subjects , that we have solemnly professed our allegiance , and often confirmed it with oaths , that his majesties usage after the prince of orange's arrival was very hard , severe , ( and if i may so say ) unjust ; and that all the new methods of settling this nation have hitherto made it more miserable poor , and more exposed to foreign enemies . and the religion we pretend to be so fond of preserving , now much more than ever likely to be destroyed : there seems to me no way to prevent the impending evils , and save these nations from poverty and destruction , but the calling home our injured sovereign , who as a true father of his country has ( notwithstanding all his provocations and injuries ) a natural love and tenderness for all his subjects , and i am so far from repining at the loss of my life , that had i ten thousand i should think my self obliged to sacrifice them all rather than omit any just and honest means to promote so good and necessary a work ; and i advise and desire all my fellow subjects to think of their duty and return to their allegiance , before the severe iudgment of god overtake them , for their perjury and rebellion , but certainly the good and interest of these nations , abstracted from all other considerations , will ere long convince them of the necessity of doing it . having thus frankly declared my principles , i know the inference will be , that i have acted accordingly and consequently that am i now justly condemned ; but as i ingenuously own the premisses , so as i positively deny the consequence ; for whatever my inclinations or actions have been , yet , as to the matter i was sentenced to dye for , i declare my self innocent , and will appeal even to the iudges themselves , whether or no , upon my tryal , there appeared the least proof that i knew a tittle contained in the papers , but presumption was , with the iury , thought sufficient to find me guilty , tho i am told , i am the first man that ever was condemned for high treason upon bare suspicion or presumption , and that contrary to my l. coke's and other eminent lawyers opinions . the knowledg of my own innocency , as to the indictment and charge against me , was that that armed me with so much assurance , and occasioned my casting my life upon the first twelve men of the pannel , without challenging any . but tho i have , i think , just reason to complain of the severe charge given by the iudges , and hard measure i have received , not to mention my close imprisonment , the hasty and violent proceedings against me , nor the industry used in the return of fitting persons to pass upon me , the denying me a copy of the pannel , &c. yet , as i hope for pardon and forgiveness at the hands of my god , so do i most heartily pray for , and forgive them , and all my enemies , all the world , nay even that iudg and iury-man who did so signally ( contrary to common iustice ) expose themselves to destroy me . but let the will of god be done : i rely wholly upon his mercy and the merits of my blessed saviour for salvation , i do chearfully and entirely resign my self into his hands , as into the hands of a faithful creator , in sure and certain hopes of a happy resurrection . bless , protect , and strengthen , o lord god , my good and gracious king and master ; in thy due time let the virtue , goodness , and innocency of the queen , my mistress , make all her enemies blush , and silence the wicked and unjust calumnies that malice and envy have raised against her ; make her and these nations happy in the prince of wales , whom from unanswerable and undoubted proofs i know to be her son ; restore them all when thou seest fit to their just rights , and on such a bottom as may support and establish the church of england , and once more make her flourishe , notwithstanding the wounds she hath received of late from her prevaricating sons . forgive , forgive , o lord , all my enemyes , bless all my friends , comfort and support my deare afflicted wife , and poor babes , be thou a husband and a father to them ; for their sakes only i could have wished to live ; but pardon that wishe , o good god , and take my soule into thy everlasting glory . amen . jn o ashton . the answer . the paper which passeth under the name of mr. ashton's speech seems to me to be composed with too much art and care to be the work of one who professeth , he thought it better to employ his last minutes in devotion : and if he was so illiterate and unskilled in the law , as he said at his tryal , fol. . one may justly wonder not only at such terms as impending , prevaricating , premisses , and consequènce , &c. but at such a peremptory judgment as he gives about the laws of the realm , in a case that must be acknowledged by all ingenuous men of his own party to have a great deal of difficulty in it . but there are some men who think to bear down all others by their confidence , and would have it taken for granted that the whole nation ( themselves excepted ) is under the guilt of perjury and rebellion . these are the modest terms in this speech , which at least do not become the charity of one just going out of the world. therefore i rather believe it to be drawn up by some persons of more art and leisure ; who thought it best to convey their own sentiments ( as they call them ) under the more popular name of one who suffered for their cause . but the weight of what is said doth not depend on the person , and therefore i shall calmly and impartially consider the things themselves and shew how unjust and unreasonable the insinuations are which respect the present government , and all such who act in obedience to it . there are two things this paper is said to be design'd for , to assert his principles and to testify his innocency . for his principles he professeth , that he dyes in the faith and communion of the church of england . and he might have lived longer in both if he had pleased ; for i cannot see how the faith and communion of the church of england obliged him to do that for which he suffered : but , by the faith of the church of england he means the doctrine of passive obedience . be it so : however he suffered not for his passive obedience , but for the want of it : if he had regulated his life by this principle , he had preserved it ; yet he saith he did so , and dyed for it . there must be certainly then some great mistake about the doctrines and principles of our church . i alwayes thought those are to be found in the articles and constitutions of it . which of these did he suffer for ? they are , he saith , her principles and late much esteemed doctrines tho now unhappily exploded . i know of no doctrines or principles of the church of england which are exploded among us ; and therefore this is unhappily insisted on by a dying man , unless he had given some proof of it . well ; but he believed himself obliged by his religion to look upon his rightful , lawful prince ( whatever his principles were or his practices might be ) as god's vicegerent , and accountable to god only , from whom he received his power . all this he might have done , and have been alive still ; for the matter in dispute is not whether rightful , lawful kings are to be obeyed , but who in our present circumstances is our rightful , lawful sovereign ; not whether kings be not god's vicegerents , ' but whether god doth not sometimes confer the right of sovereignty by a law superiour to the laws of particular countries , that is , by the law of nations , which establisheth such a right upon the success of a just war ; not whether sovereign princes are not accountable only to god , but whether allegiance be not due where the rights of sovereignty are placed , by an extraordinary act of providence and the concurrent consent of the nation . but he goes on ; and alwayes believing it to be contrary to the laws of god , the church , and the realm , upon any pretence whatsoever to take up arms against him , and let all the world take notice in this belief i dye . i had much rathor have taken notice that in this belief he lived ; for i see no reason of his dying for it . for , why must a man be said to die for not taking up arms , who was condemned to die for a design just con●rary , viz. for the subverting the present government by domestick insurrections and foreign power ? so that the question is not about passive obedience but to whom it is due ; i grant that the laws of god and of the realm are to determine the measures of our obedience ; but here lies the only point , whether the rights of sovereignty may not be transferred by the success of a just war and the consent of the people : for if they may , then according to his own principles he suffered justly . and if the directors of his conscience did not speak to this point , they led him into a dangerous error , and have been too much the occasion of his suffering . therefore to clear this whole matter , and to prevent the like mistakes in others ; i shall endeavour to state the present case of our government , so as to shew both that it is our duty to submit to it , and that no principles or doctrins of the church of england are violated thereby . to do this , we must of necessity look back to the occasions of this great revolution : and there were two principal occasions of it . first , great and violent presumptions of an injury to the right of succession . secondly , too great evidence of a formed design to subvert the established religion and civil liberties of the nation . now there are two very material questions which arise from hence . first , whether these were the just occasions of a war ? secondly , whether upon the success of this war the rights of sovereignty were duly transferred ? if these were just occasions of a war , and upon the success thereof the sovereignty was duly transferred , then there can be no dispute left to whom our allegiance is due . it is taken for granted by all who understand these matters , that as there is a law of nature , which determines the rights and properties of particular nations ; and that all private persons are bound to submit to the municipal laws of those societies for their peace and security : so there are other laws which concern those nations , as they make up several independent governments upon each other . and there are several rights which belong to them with respect to one another , which do not belong to private persons as they live in subjection to any particular government . and as there are such rights , so there must be a just and lawful way for reparation of injuries . in particular governments , the thing is plain by established laws and courts of judicature , whose sentence is executed by the civil power ; but in separate nations and independent governments , although there be laws by consent called the law of nations ; yet there is no common judicature to determine of right and wrong , and therefore in case of injury there is an allowance for the injured party by this law of nations to right himself by force , as there would be to every particular person , if there were no laws nor power to see them executed . there is then a right in every sovereign and independent prince to exercise force against another prince , who detains any right from him , or doth any injury to him , or to those he is bound to defend . the question then comes to the iust occasions of such a war , and here are two assigned , first , great and violent presumptions of an injury to the right of succession . this is expresly mentioned and insisted on , in the declaration of the then prince of orange ( our present king ) in these words — but to crown all , there are great and violent presumptions inducing us to believe that those evil counsellors , in order to the carrying on of their ill designs , and to the gaining to themselves the more time , for the effecting of them , for the encouraging their complices , and for the discouraging of all good subjects , hath published that the queen hath brought forth a son ; tho there have appeared both during the queen's pretended bigness and in the manner in which the birth was managed , so many just and visible grounds of suspicion , that not only we our selves , but all the good subjects of these kingdoms do vehemently suspect that the pretended prince of wales was not born of the queen : and it is notoriously known to all the world , that many both doubted of the queens bigness , and of the birth of the child , and yet there was not any one thing done to satisfie them and to put an end to all doubts . and since our dearest and most entirely beloved consort , the princess , and likewise we our selves have so great an interest in this matter , and such a right as all the world knows to the succession to the crown — and since the english nation hath ever testified a most particular affection and esteem both to our dearest confort and to our selves ; we cannot excuse our selves from espousing their interests in a matter of such high consequence , and from contributing all that lies in us , for maintaining both of the protestant religion , and of the laws and liberties of those kingdoms , and for the securing to them the continual enjoyment of all their just rights . here we have an hereditary right to the crown asserted both remoter in himself and nearer in the queen , who was unquestionably the next , if there were no heir male : it was possible this right might be really defeated by a prince of wales , and it was possible it might be pretended to be so when it was not : for there have been many instances in history of suborned and supposititious princes , and therefore there was reason that sufficient evidence should be given in a case of such importance and which was under so great suspicion . but if there was no reasonable care taken to prevent or remove these suspicions , then the parties most concerned have a right to assert their own pretensions in such a way as the law of nations doth allow . and in this case no private depositions or confident affirmations of such as are dependents or otherwise liable to suspicion , can in reason be taken for satisfactory evidence ; for let any one consider what the laws of nations have thought sitting evidence in a case of this nature , and he will soon find how very much short such proofs are of what the nature of the thing hath been thought to require — the civil law is very strict where there is any occasion of suspicion . it requires notice to be given twice a month to the parties concerned that they may receive full satisfaction . that the mother is to be kept in a house by itself : that thirty days before she expects to be delivered , she must give notice of it to those who are most concerned , that they may send such as they can trust to be present : that there ought to be but one door where she is to lie in , and if there be more , they must be done up ; that at that door there are to be three men and three women and two assistants : that all persons are to be searcht who go in , especially at the labor , at which time there must be sufficient light in the room . when the child is born it ought to be first shewn to the parties concerned , and great care is taken about the persons in whose hands he is put , and satisfaction must be given from time to time that it is the same child , and if satisfaction be not given as to these things , the roman law doth not allow any right of possession . by the old common law of england , in case of suspicion , a writ of inspection was allowed , the form whereof is in the books , and if there were any doubt , the woman was to be put into a safe place , where no suspicious persons were to come near her till she was delivered . this was then thought so reasonable a thing , that the old law books have a chapter on purpose de partu supposito , wherein directions are given to prevent and discover a subornation . these things i mention to show what satisfaction is necessary to be given in case of suspicion , and the higher the persons are , and of so much greater importance as the succession is , so much clearer ought the evidence to be , that no occasion of doubt may remain : but if no such care was taken , if the principal persons concerned had not the least satisfaction given them ; if the whole thing were managed with secrecy and suspicious circumstances , then i can see no reason to exclude those who are most concern'd from a right of demanding satisfaction by force of arms. but mr. ashton thinks he hath cleared this matter , when he affirms that he knows there was no supposititious birth by unanswerable undoubted proofs and this is put into his prayer , that it might look like an appeal to god as to the truth of what he said . this is one of the boldest and most artificial strokes of the penner of this speech , not barely to make him af firm it with so much assurance , but to do it in his prayer too . but a matter of so great consequence is not to be determined upon the testimony of any single wittness , although he were the most competent witness as to such a matter , which doth not in the least appear as to mr. ashton : for how could he know it by unanswerable and undoubted proofs ; when considering the circumstances that were in this case , it was hardly possible to produce such proofs , as would pass for unexceptionable evidence upon a legal trial ? for there hath been such a trial here in england within the memory of man , wherein the father and mother and midwife have all sworn to the truth of the birth of a son , and yet the jury upon hearing the whole evidence have given judgment that it was supposititious . therefore bare affirmations of some persons concerned are not evidence sufficient in case of strong and vehemont presumptions to the contrary ; and such evidence ought to have been given as might have either prevented or removed any just grounds of suspicion . but since no such unanswerable undoubted proofs were made to those who were most concerned , the same just right doth remain to the undoubted heir of the crown , as it did in the former case to the next heir at law , who upon a fair trial and the verdict of the country , recovered the estate . but between princes there are no such ways of trial or courts of judicature , and therefore in such cases the right of war is allowed by the general consent of mankind . secondly , there was a further just occasion for that expedition , which was the design to subvort our religion and civil liberties . as to the particulars they are fully set down in the declaration , and need not to be repeated ; that which i am to make out is , that the then prince of orange by his relation to the crown had a just right to concern himself in the vindication of both , and that this is not repugnant to the doctrines and principles of the church of england . it was not thought disagreeable to them for q elisabeth to assist the dutch against the king of spain ; yet she had no such reason for it as our king and queen had to prevent the suppression of their own religion here , and the rights of that people to whom they were so nearly related . for there was nothing in her case so considerable as the growing power of spain and the danger of overturning the religious and civil liberties of a neighbour people . the queens professor of law in oxford at that time saith , that it was then made a question by some whether q. elis. had just reason for that war in assistance of the dutch , and he resolves the lawfulness of it upon grounds : first , that it was to prevent ensuing mischief ; secondly , from the ancient alliance between the two nations ; thirdly , that if the dutch were totally vanquished by the spaniard , they would be made slaves under an arbitrary power . the queen herself owned this as the ground of her resolution , that it was christian piety to relieve them who were of the same religion which she professed , and wisdom to prevent the pernicious designs of her enemies . and in her declaration she published this as the reason of her sending forces to the aid of the netherlanders , that they might peaceably enjoy their ancient freedom . in the latter end of the reign of king iames i. the war broke out in germany wherein the emperor used his utmost endeavour to establish absolute power and popery together . there was occasion offered to try whether the giving assistance against these were against the principles and doctrines of the church of england . for the prince elector palatine was chosen king of bohemia , and sent over for king iames's advice about it : but his designs lay then so much another way , that he had no mind he should engage in it : but the archbishop of canterbury in his letter to sir r. naunton then secretary of state , saith , that god had set up this prince his masters son in law , as a mark of honour throughout all christendom , to propagate the gospel and to protect the oppressed ; that for his own part he dares not but give advice to follow where god leads , apprehending the work of god in this and that of hungary ; that he was satisfied in conscience that the bohemians had a just cause ; that the king's daughter the elector's lady had professed , she would not leave herself one iewel , rather than not maintain so religious and so righteous a cause . in the beginning of the reign of king charles the first , when i suppose it will be granted , that the doctrins and principles of the church of england were understood and followed ; the king of denmark had taken up arms , to settle the peace and liberty of germany , as he declared : but he met with a great defeat . whereupon king charles the first thought himself concerned to give assistance to him : and archbishop laud was then employed ( as dr. heylin confesseth ) by the king's command , to draw up a declaration , to be published in all the parishes of england ; which was read by the king , and approved by the council , wherein the greatness of the danger they were in is set forth , and the people are exhorted to serve god and the king , and to labour by their prayers to divert the danger . wherein lay this danger ? it is there said to be , that by the defeat of the king of denmark , there was little or nothing left to hinder the house of austria from being lord and master of germany . and what then ? why then there will be an open way for spain to do what they pleased in all the west part of christendom . it seems then , it was not thought disagreeable to the principles and doctrins of our church , to hinder the growth of a western monarchy , although it be by assisting subjects against their princes who promote it : and then follow these remarkable words ; you are to know therefore , that to prevent this is the present care of the king and state ; and there is no proba●le way left , but by sending of forces , and other supplies , to the said king of denmark , to enable him to keep the field , that our enemies be not masters of all on a sudden . and not long after — if he be not presently relieved , the cause of religion is not only like to suffer by it in some one part , ( as it hath already in a fearful manner in the palatinate ) but in all places where it hath got any footing . so that if we supply not presently our allies and consederates in this case , it is like to prove the extirpation of true religion , and the replanting of romish superstition in the neighbouring parts of christendom . and the coldness of the state shall suffer in all places , as the betrayers of that religion elsewhere , which it professeth and honoureth at home ; which will be an imputation never to be washed off : and god forbid this state should suffer under it . — and in the last place : you are to call upon god your selves , and to incite the people to joyn with you , in humble and hearty prayers unto god , that he will be pleased now , after long affliction of his dear people and children , to look in mercy both upon them and us ; and in particular for the safety of the king of denmark , and that army which is left him , that god would bless and prosper him against his and our enemies . thus far archbishop laud. let those who now with as much ignorance as confidence , upbraid men with renouncing the doctrins and principles of the church of england , read and consider these passages ; and if any thing will make them more wise and humble , this will. did archbishop laud go off from the church of england , or king charles the first , who both suffered for the sake of it ? but some men have never throughly penetrated into the doctrins and principles of our church , but look only on some principles in opposition to the late times of rebellion , and think there is nothing farther to be looked after . whereas the consideration is very different as to our duties , with respect to our own princes , and those of a more general concernment as to the state of religion and government in the world. but from hence it is plain , that it was then thought not only lawful , but a duty , to prevent the dangerous growth of such a monarchy , which designs to suppress religion and civil liberties ; and not only to give assistance to those who joyn in the same design , but to pray god to bless and prosper it . and accordingly a form of prayer was then appointed for those dangerous times . not long after this a breach with france hapned , and the king published a declaration of the ground of the war ; wherein it is laid down as the first ground , that the house of austria conspiring the ruin of all those of the reformed religion ( as plainly appeared in the affairs of germany ) had such an influence on the councils of france , as to make them break promise in such a manner , as hazarded the loss of the whole party in germany . the next is , " that he had broke his articles with his protestant subjects , when he had been a mediator of peace between them , and they had done nothing to violate them . so that a design to suppress the protestant religion , in a neighbour country , was looked on as a just cause of war , when he was concerned to preserve it . and then another form of prayer was appointed to be used suitable to that occasion ; which plainly evidence , that such a design was no ways thought repugnant to the doctrins and principles of the church of england . but since the french conduct seems to be now admired by this sort of men , i shall bring some remarkable instances from them . it is notorious to the world what powerful assistance the french gave to the confederate princes of germany , against the emperour , their lawful prince , and what defence they made for this . they published an account to the world of the reasons of it , and the chief was this ; viz. that they had reason to suspect , that from charles the fifth's time the difference of religions had been secretly supported by the emperours , in order to their making themselves absolute ; and that the changing the form of government in the empire , was sufficient for a neighbour prince to interpose by force of arms. in the revolt of catalonia from the king of spain , their lawful prince , the french king accepted of the sovereignty over them , being offered him by the states of that country , and caused discourses to be written in justification of their transferring their allegeance : and yet their complaint was nothing but the severity of the spanish government , and a desire of some greater liberties than they enjoyed under it . why then should it be now thought an unjust thing , for a sovereign prince ( so nearly related to the crown of england ) to espouse the cause of our religions and civil interests , when the design was so apparent for the suppressing them ? if that opportunity had been lost , they might before this time have been past all reasonable hopes of recovery . ii. but suppose this were allowed ; yet here is another difficulty ariseth , concerning the transferring allegeance from a lawful prince , to him that met with unexpected success in his design . and here i shall endeavour to make it plain , that this is not against the doctrins and principles of the church of england . if we allow the church of england , to have declared its sense in the matter of government , it can only be with respect to subjects . but i think the measures of our obedience , are not to be taken from the rules of the church ; but from the laws of the realm : because they are not the same in all countries where the same religion is professed ; as is plain in the case of france and poland : the reason of the different measures in these countries is not from the church , but from the different constitution of the kingdoms . and i do not see how the rules of the church can alter the fundamental laws : for the church only enforceth the duty of obedience on the consciences of men ; but it doth not prescribe or limit the bounds of it . whether our monarchy be absolute , or limited ; or if limited , whether in its exercise of power , or in the right of sovereignty ; how far the limitation gives a right of resistance , in case of the breach of it ; are nice questions , but not to be resolv'd by the rules of the church ; but by our legal constitution and the general reason of mankind : and therefore in such cases , where the right of war and a foreign power are concerned , we are not to judge meerly by municipal laws , but we are to proceed by a more general law , viz. that of nations , which takes in the effects of a just war , which the particular laws of a country have n● regard to . but where hath the church of england declared its sense about the right of war ? the articles of our church declare , that the chief government of all estates of this realm , doth appertain to the civil magistrate : but they no where say , that in a just war the supream power cannot be acquired ; or that god doth never confer it in an extraordinary method . the book of homilies is very severe against disobedience and wilful rebellion ; but it is no where said , that where the right of sovereignty is transferred by a successful war , there is no allegeance due to those who possess it : on the contrary it is said in the first part , that if god for their wickedness , had given them an heathen tyrant to reign over them , they were by god's word bound to obey him , and to pray for him . can it then be agreeable to the doctrins and principles of our church , to refuse allegeance to good religious princes , whom god hath made the happy instruments of preserving our religion and liberties ? in the same part , the iews are commended for praying for the king of babylon , when they were in captivity , that they might live under his protection , and do him service , and find favour in his sight . and what is this short of allegeance to one , who had nothing but bare success in war , to plead for his title to it ? if any princes of their own religion had rescued them from that captivity , would they have scrupled allegeance to them , when we see how far the maccabees went in the defence of their religion and laws ? in the second part , the obedience of the iewish nation to augustus is commended ; and it is evident that he had no authority over them , but by the right of war. and our blessed saviour's example is mentioned , who being brought before the roman president , acknowledged his power and authority , to be given him from god. and how was this authority conveyed to him , but by the success of war ? so that we can find nothing , in the certain established doctrin and principles of our church , which is repugnant to our allegeance to the present government . i might easily produce considerable testimonies , of some of the greatest divines of our church , which assert , that soverignty may be transferred by a just war ; but i leave that to others , and proceed . mr ashton saith , that we were born leige subjects to another ; that we have solemnly professed our allegeance , and often confirmed it with oaths . i know no body denies it . but is this all ? is our allegeance so inseparable from the person we have once sworn to , that no case whatsoever , can alter it ? not the case of plain voluntary dereliction ? not the case of putting the kingdom under a foreign power ? not the seeking the utter ruin and destruction of the people ? is allegeance inseparable in these cases , because we were born subjects and did swear allegeance ? if not , then it is not always so , notwithstanding the oaths . for these and several others are allowed , by such who have written the most warmly against the republican principles . but we need not run to any difficult cases : ours is only the case of a just war ; which is allowed by all sorts of casuists , who do agree , that allegeance is due to the party that prevails in it ; and if it be due to one , it cannot be due to another , at the same time , altho' he be living and do not discharge persons from their oaths ; for the obligation of oaths , depends on the nature and reason of things , and not upon the pleasure of those to whom they are made . but where there is a right to govern , there must be a duty of allegeance : and that success in a just war , doth give such a right , i could produce so many testimonies , of all kinds of writers , as would make the reading of them as tedious , as of those in the history of passive obedience . nay , some go so far , as to assert a right of sovereignty to be acquired by success , even in an unjust war : but we need none of these testimonies . but doth not all this resolve this whole controversy into a right of conquest , which is not so much as pretended in our present case ? i answer , that we must distinguish between a right to the government , and the manner of assuming it . the right was founded on the iust causes of the war , and the success in it : but the assuming of it was not by any ways of force or violence , but by a free consent of the people , who by a voluntary recognition , and their majesties acceptance of the government , as it is setled by our laws , take away any pretence to a conquest over the people , or a government by force . thus i have endeavoured to set this matter in as clear a light , and in as little a compass as i could : i now return to mr. ashton's speech . next to his obligation on the point of religion , he mentions that of gratitude to the king his master , whom he had served years , — but this , he adds , is a thing not much esteemed at this time . as little as it is esteemed , i know no body would have blamed his gratitude , if it had not carried him beyond the bounds of his duty . but it is strange , he should be so much for gratitude , and yet should allow none for so great a deliverance . what is years service to the preservation of a nation , from the imminent danger of popery and arbitrary power ? such men look but a very little way , who talk at this rate : and can they imagine a french power , under our circumstances , could secure any thing to us , but ruin ? as to his master's usage , which he saith , after the prince of orange's arrival , was very hard , severe ; and , if he may say it , unjust . i would desire his friends to consider a little better , and to think , if any such thing as severity had been intended , how easy it had been to have executed it , and to have prevented his going away ; and consequently , a great deal of the charge of the war , he complains of immediately after . let them name any one person in such circumstances , who was allowed so great freedom as he had , of disposing of himself : but this is very far for mr. ashton's occasion of suffering . well , but all the new methods of setling , have hitherto , he saith , made the nation more miserable , poor , and exposed to foreign enemies . it is possible such may believe , that the nation would be less miserable and poor under the french power , than it is now . but no man who observes the vast designs of france , and the incredible industry of the french monarch , to inlarge his own power and dominions , can think ( if he thinks twice ) that ever he should undertake so great a work , out of kindness to any but himself ; much less , out of perfect good will to the english nation . hath he given so much evidence to the world of his sincerity in his promises , when the keeping of them hath been prejudicial to his interest ? suppose he should compass his end upon us , and under so fair a colour , make provinces of these kingdoms ; what possible remedy would there be for this , then indeed , poor and miserable nation ? what comfort will it then be to say , they did not think he would have broken his word so with them ? in the mean time , is it not great wisdom and policy , to venture our religion , and all our liberties on the sincerity and kindness of france ? but if there be any present hardship , it is no more than a necessary war involves our neighbours in as well as our selves ; and that in a common cause , for preserving the liberty of europe , against the growing power of france , as it did formerly of spain . but there is another insinuation of a higher nature , viz. that the religion we pretend to be so fond of preserving , is now much more than ever , likely to be destroyed . what is the meaning of this ? what! more in danger than when penal laws and tests were taking away , in order to the taking away our religion after them ? when the design was as plain , and open as a thing of that nature could be , in such a nation ? when some of the factors themselves complained , they made too much haste , and were too eager and forward , to accomplish it . and altho' nothing was then pretended , but the setling liberty of conscience upon a new magna charta , yet all wise men saw through these pretences , and that nothing was really designed but popery ; which the jesuits did not conceal in their letters to each other : one of the which hapned to be intercepted ; and the thing it self , is now fully owned in the kings own letter to the pope , printed at the end of the late trials . so that there must be a design , either to deceive the pope , or the nation ; and which is the more probable , let any man of sense judge . but where lies the danger of our religion now ? have we not the same laws , the same protection , the same encouragement , which we ever had , at any time since the reformation ? if our religion be now in danger , it is by such men who would bring in the french power to establish it ; however it be disguised under another pretext . after this follows a charge of no less than perjury and rebellion , upon his fellow subjects ; whom , he adviseth to return to their allegeance , before the iudgments of god overtake them , for their perjury and rebellion . this is a heavy charge indeed , upon the body of the nation , which hath taken the oaths of allegeance to their majesties : but if it be true , it is accusing the greatest part of mankind of these sins , who have hapned to live in the time of any great revolutions , or changes of government . was the nation forsworn , in the times of william the conqueror , and his two sons , and his nephew ? was it forsworn all the time of king iohn , and the several reigns of the th , th , th and th henries ? one would think it better became a dying man to judge more charitably of his fellow subjects . had he never heard of the law of england , requiring allegeance to the king , on account of the possession of the crown ; and that our most eminent lawyers , in peaceable and quiet times , have been of that opinion ? methinks at least , that should make modest men , not so peremptory in such a charge ; for it is to make , such an oath unlawful , which the law makes not only lawful , but a duty . and when the greatest lawyers this nation hath had thought this a part of our law ; shall such who confess themselves unskilful in the law , charge the nation with perjury , for taking an oath , which the law requires ? but if our law did not require it , there is such a general consent in mankind about it , that it seems to me , to be a law of nations , that an oath of fidelity should follow possession ; because otherwise , there would be infinite snares to the consciences of all such who are required to obey , but are not bound to enquire into the rights of war. is it perjury and rebellion in the new french conquests , for the inhabitants to take oaths of fidelity to the french king ? if not , how comes it to be so here ? is there not the same right of war here as abroad ? was it perjury and rebellion in the subjects of the king of spain in portugal , to take a new oath of allegeance to the duke of braganza , when he was declared king ? and yet they were all sworn before , not only to the king of spain , but to his heirs : and even the duke himself , had not only taken this oath ; but the spaniard particularly charged him with perjury , and great ingratitude : yet the obligation to his countries good ▪ was then thought to overrule that personal obligation to the king of spain . but if they were all guilty of perjury and rebellion ; how came the other princes of europe so frankly and readily to own his government ; and the french , as much and as early as any , sending assistance by sea and land to support it ? but in this revolution of portugal , the best title was the success of war , sounded on a remote title to the crown , when the king of spain had enjoyed the possession of that crown to the third generation . but it may be said , that the practices of other people are to be no rule ●o us ; and that we are not to be guided by bad precedents abroad , but by the principles and doctrins of our own church . this were to the purpose , if our church had any where declared , taking such an oath to be perjury . but where is that done ? i confess , i can find no such thing : and if mr ashton ( or his friends ) had made such a discovery , they ought to have told the world of it . but if there be no such declaration to be met with , then we are left to the ▪ general rules of conscience , and the common reason of mankind ; according to which , i see no ground for this heavy charge of perjury and rebellion in our present case . but although mr. ashton be so abundantly satisfied in the design he mentions , that if he had ten thousand lives , he would sacrifice them all in so good and necessary a work ; yet the remainder of his speech is spent in clearing his innocency as to the fact for which he was condemned . if it was so meritorious an act to die in such a cause , a man might have been tempted to be thought guilty . but before he could think fit to die in charity with all the world , he saith several things with a design to blacken the iudges , the iury , and the government . the iudges he accuses of a severe charge , and the hard measure he received — . as to the latter , it is a very odd kind of hard measure , when he was so very little sensible of it then , that he said , he did not complain of the court , fo . . and more fully afterwards , fo . . i cannot but own i have had a fair trial for my life . where was the hard measure then ? therefore this could not be mr. ashton's sense , unless he would contradict himself ; and those who would free him from it , must take these words to have been written by others , who thought to serve another end by it ; and were not so near giving an account for such calumnies . the severity of the charge lay in applying the statute edw. . to his fact. which was a design to carry into france a treasonable scheme and project of an invasion , in order to the deposing the king and queen . this last the judges declared , had been always held to be high-treason . all the question was then , whether such a fact were an overt-act of such a design ; and so it was left to the jury , whether mr. ashton intended to go over with such a design or not . if there be any severity here , it must be in the law ; and that all those who suffer by a law , are apt to complain of . he particularly chargeth that iudge , and that iury-man , who did , he saith , signally contrary to common iustice , expose themselves to destroy him . this is a very hard charge from a dying man , and ought to have great evidence to reconcile it to common charity ; but he offers none . the iury were to act according to their consciences ; and if they did so , how could they expose themselves contrary to common iustice to destroy him ? but what evidence doth he give , that they did not so ? some have told him , that he was the first man that was ever condemned for high treason , upon bare suspicion or presumption , and that contrary to my lord cook and other eminent lawyers opinions . the main point as to the iury , was , whether they were satisfied in their consciences , that mr. ashton intended to go into france with such a design ? and where the fact lies in the intention . there can be no direct evidence ( without seeing the hea●t ; ) but it must be gathered from a concurrence of circumstances , strong enough to determine an honest mans judgment : and such the iury believed to be in his case . my lord cooks words are on the case of treason that the compassing , intent : or imagination , thô secret , is to be tried by the peers , and to be discovered by circumstances precedent , concomitant and subsequent , with all endeavour evermore for the safety of the king. it is true , he saith afterwards , fol. ● . that conjectural presumptions , or inferences , or strains of wit , are not sufficient , but there must be good and manifest proof ; but still this proof must be such as the thing will bear ; for there can be no direct and plain proof of a secret intention : either therefore no man can be justly condemned for a secret intention , manifested by an overt-act , or there must be such a proof allowed , as is sufficient to satisfie a mans conscience , although it come not up to plain and direct evidence , as it is opposed to the highest degree of presumption . but it may be said , that the presumption lies in judging the intention from the overt act , but that overt-act must be manifestly proved . ▪ the overt-act in this case was the carrying over treasonable papers into france , in order to an invasion . the sole question then was , whether there was manifest proof as to these papers . that the papers were found about him was manifestly proved ; and he owns fol. . that they were unfortunately found upon him ; but he saith that he knew not the importance of them . it was manifestly proved , that he had an extraordinary concernment to have these papers thrown over ▪ board ; which he saith was perfectly out of friend ship , and whether that was a true answer , was left to the consciences of the iury , who were to judge of this by all the circumstances antecedent , concomitant and subsequent , by which they did conclude him guilty . and i cannot see how they went against common iustice therein ; especially since mr. ashton well knew ▪ that one of the most material papers taken , was of his own hand writing ; not the first draught , but the copy which was shewed him in the court ; and when it was so , he desired , fol. . that the original may be read , and not the copy ; and he had good reason for it : for as far as i can judge , upon perusal of both , it is the very same hand in which this speech was written . but what said mr. ashton to the iury , to clear this matter ? he faith , fol. . that his hand was not proved to any of the papers , and therefore there was nothing but supposition or suspicion against him . it is true , there was no direct and plain proof of the hand , as there was in the case of my lord preston ; ( and it is a wonder it was omitted , for that would have been plain proof of his knowing what was in those papers : ) however , all the other circumstances put together , were a sufficient proof of his privity to the contents of them . and i wonder how mr. ashton , could so confidently in his paper declare himself innocent , as to the matter for which he was sentenced to die , when he knew the paper was of his own hand writing , and plain proof hath been since made of his own delivery of it to a third person . can a man be innocent and guilty of the same thing ? the only thing to be taken notice of , which remains , is , a reflection on the government for his close imprisonment , and the hasty and violent proceedings against him . if there were any thing more than usual in such cases , as to his imprisonment , he ought to have mentioned the particulars ; for otherwise it is to arraign the common iustice of the nation . as to the hasty and violent proceedings of his trial ; it was then told him , that the greatest advantage he had , was in putting off his trial : for by that he knew how to lay the papers on my lord preston ; which yet could not clear him ▪ as to those papers which were not written with my lord's hand , nor related any ways to him ; but one of them was written with his own hand . upon the whole matter , i cannot see how he hath either proved his innocency , or that he acted according to the principles and doctrins of the church of england . as to his concluding prayer , i cannot but observe ▪ that in the beginning of the speech the reason he gives why he would not make any to the people , was , because he would employ his last minutes in devotion and holy communion with god : which i hope he did . but those who contrived the speech , were to make a prayer for him too ; but not a prayer of devotion , but rather of faction and sedition : for it hath no other meaning , than that god would overturn this present government , and restore the former , in order to the flourishing of the church of england ; notwithstanding the wounds she hath received from her prevaricating sons . i cannot imagine how a man could joyn these things together in a prayer , unless he could think all those are prevaricating sons , who are against popery . for i know no bottom large enough for popery , and the church of england , to stand upon together . but this i do not think of mr. ashton , and therefore conclude , as i began , that this seems rather the speech of a party , than of mr. ashton ; who made use of his name and hand , to convey into the minds of the people , the most malicious insinuations against this present government , and all who live in obedience to it . a catalogue of some books , lately printed for r. clavell . forms of private devotion for every day in the week , in a method agreeable to the liturgy ; with occasional prayers , and an office for the holy communion , and for the time of sickness . humbly recommended to all the pious and devout members of the church of england . a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall , february the fifteenth , / . by henry dove , d. d. chaplain to their majesties . roman forgeries in the councils , during the first four centuries , together with an appendix , concerning the forgeries and errors in the annals of baronius . by thomas comber , d. d. precentor of york . a scholastical history of the primitive and general use of liturgies in the christian church ; together with an answer to mr ▪ david clarkson's late discourse concerning liturgies ; in two parts , in octavo . by the same hand . seasonable reflections on a late pamphlet , entituled , a history of passive obedience since the reformation ; wherein the true notion of passive obedience is setled and secured from the malicious interpretations of ill-designing men. the golden rule , or the royal law of equity explained : by i. goodman , d. d. the frauds of the romish priests and monks set forth in eight letters ; lately written by a gentleman in his journy into italy . a late letter concerning the proceedings in scotland , and sufferings of the episcopal clergy there ; in quarto , price d. political arithmetick , or a discourse concerning the extent and value of lands , people , buildings ; husbandry , manufacture , commerce , fishery , artizans , seamen , soldiers ; publick revenues , interest , taxes , superlucration , registries , banks ; valuation of men , increasing of seamen , of militia's , harbors , situation , shipping , power at sea , &c. as the same relates to every country in general ; but more particularly to the territories of his majesty of great britain , and his neighbors of holland , zealand , and france . by sir william petty , late fellow of the royal society . their present majesties government proved to be throughly setled , and that we may submit to it , without asserting the principles of mr. hobbs ; shewing also , that allegiance was not due to the usurpers , after the late civil war ; occasion'd by some late pamphlets against the reverend dr. sherlock . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e d. . tit. . bract. l. . c. . fleta l. . c. . in the case of one robins's child , at hereford assizes about an. . alberic . gent. de jure bel. l. . c. . life of archbishop laud , sol . . motifs de la france pour la guerre d' allemagne , p. , , . a discourse concerning bonds of resignation of benefices in point of law and conscience by ... edward lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a discourse concerning bonds of resignation of benefices in point of law and conscience by ... edward lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], xi, [ ], , [ ] p. printed by j.h. for henry mortlock ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. advertisement: p. 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng benefices, ecclesiastical -- great britain. patronage, ecclesiastical -- great britain. great britain -- church history -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a discourse concerning bonds of resignation of benefices , in point of law and conscience . by the right reverend father in god edward lord bishop of worcester . london , printed by i. h. for henry mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . . the preface . the intention of writing and publishing the following discourse , was to give a stop , if possible , to a dangerous and prevailing practise ; and so much the more dangerous , because it is managed with so much secrecy , and persons are often drawn into it , before they are aware of the mischief of it . they are told , that there is no law against it ; and that there are adjudged cases and precedents in law for it ; and that there is nothing amiss in the bond of resignation it self : but if there be any corrupt or evil practice after it , that makes it fit to be condemned in equity , but not in law. but a general bond of resignation of a benefice upon notice , in order to the obtaining a presentation to that benefice , hath such a simoniacal appearance ; that any person who pretends to conscience cannot but think it necessary to examine , how far such a practice can be consistent , not only with the law , but with the oath which he is to take against all simoniacal contracts and promises , directly or indirectly &c. for or concerning the procuring or obtaining the rectory or vicarage of &c. how can any man that enters into these bonds , say that he doth it not in order to the obtaining a presentation ? and doth not such a bond amount to a contract ? how then can they satisfy themselves in taking this oath after such a bond ? all they can pretend is , that although it be a contract for such an end , yet it is no simoniacal contract . but which way are we to be satisfied in point of conscience , what is a simoniacal contract , and what not ? is it only from the statute eliz. c. . so that what is there forbidden is simoniacal and nothing else ? but where hath that law determin'd what simony is , when it is never mentioned in it ? it severely prohibits some corrupt practises as to benefices ; but it never goes about to restrain the notion of simony to them ( as will appear in the following discourse ) and the ecclesiastical laws , as to this matter , are left as they were before . if therefore there be such a true notion of a simoniacal contract , as is allowed by our laws , which is not confined to that statute ; then it must follow , that there may be a simoniacal contract , which is not condemned by that law : and therefore all persons who understand the nature and extent of our laws , will have a care of restraining the nature of a simoniacal contract to the letter of that statute . it may be said , that a simoniacal contract is an ill name put upon we know not what , if we go beyond the law of the land : and that there must be some certain bounds set to such hard words ; or else the snare may be greater another way : and that here is no such thing as real simony in the case ; but the word is applied to some indirect practises in obtaining benefices , but what those are the law must determine . to which i answer , that i am very far from going beyond the law of the land for determining this matter . for i do acknowledge that since the notion of simony is extended beyond the first occasion of the name , there must be a certain rule to determin it ; and that i do freely grant is the law of the land. but by it , i do not mean a particular statute made with respect to some more notorious acts , which are punishable in the courts of common law ; but i understand by the law of england that comprehensive body of laws , which have been here receiv'd , as the measure of our iudgment and actions in those things which are to be determin'd by them . if a question be made whether a contract made at sea be a good contract ; it will be no good answer , to say it must be a good contract , because there is nothing in it contrary to the rules of the common law. for , if our common law should happen to allow such contracts , which the civil law doth not ; will it be ground enough to affirm , that it is a good contract because our common law doth not condemn it ? no certainly . but it must be determin'd by that law which is proper for it , and being here receiv'd for such , is in such cases the law of the land. so i say here ; the ecclesiastical law , so far as it is receiv'd and allow'd by the common law , is the rule and measure , whereby the nature of simony is to be determin'd ; and that is allow'd by our most learned and judicious interpreters of our common law , to be of ecclesiastical cognisance : only such acts as come under statutes belong to the courts of common law. and there was a general presumption in law before , that no patron was to make any advantage to himself of a right of presentation . and therefore my lord coke saith , that a guardian in socage of a manor whereunto an advowson is appendant shall not present to the church , because he can take nothing for the presentation for the which he may account to the heir : from whence he infers , that simony is odious in the eye of the common law. and it is very well if it so continues ; which i can hardly imagine , if these bonds of resignation prevail . but if by the ecclesiastical law , as received here , such bonds are simoniacal , being a contract in order to the obtaining a presentation ; then it can give little satisfaction to any man's conscience to be told , that they are not against law , i.e. against the statute eliz . c. . my business is not here to give a full account of the matters contained in the following discourse ; but only to remove some general prejudices against the design of it . which is truly no other , than to bring this secret practice into open view , and to have it fairly examin'd and discussed . for , while it is managed in this manner , there is not only mischief done to the church , but to the consciences of men ; who are very apt to suspect a snare in all such bonds , and are very uneasie at the thoughts of them afterwards . if there be any better reasons to be given for them , than i have yet seen ; i should be glad to be convinced of the lawfulness of such indirect practises and private contracts : but at present i think ( if they be not timely prevented ) they will end in unspeakable mischief to the parochial clergy , who are the main ecclesiastical body of the church of england ; and in whose welfare we ought to be all concerned . and truly i cannot but be very tender in what relates to their rights ; for their work and duty is great and laborious , if it be performed as it ought to be ; and they ought not to have any new burdens imposed upon them , under a pretence of law , which neither they nor their successors will be able to bear . i am very sensible , how much in this age depends upon the faithfulness and diligence and good reputation of the parochial clergy of england . for i am not much afraid of any designs of our open enemies ( or which may be worse , of our pretended friends ) if we be true to our selves ; i. e. if we seriously and conscientiously do our duties with respect to god , the people , and our own souls . if we do not give way to unreasonable suspicions and causeless iealousies of one another ; if we mind the interest of religion more than our own , and serve god and not our own lusts ; if we sincerely promote the best ends in the world , the saving souls and doing good to mankind ; god will not be wanting to us : but he that hath saved us from the lion and the bear , will likewise save us from the fox and the viper ; i mean such who under fair and plausible pretences eat through the bowels of their mother ; and by secret and indirect practises go about to ruine the church they profess themselves to be of : although by their works they deny it . if i had not some more than ordinary reason to believe such things to be not only practised but incouraged by such who pretend , not only to understand our law , but to direct the nation in it ; i should hardly have undertaken a task of this nature . but having so just an occasion to search into this matter , as well as i could , and finding so much cause of dissatisfaction as to these bonds ; i thought it my duty to doe what lay in me to prevent that mischief which is hastning upon our church by them . if i am mistaken in any part of the following discourse , i shall be glad to be better informed : and if i am not , i hope that our church may receive no disadvantage by it . and as i honour the profession of the law , and the many worthy persons , who are and have been of it : so i cannot but be concerned to find some pretenses of law made use of to such ill purposes and designs ; that if the number of patrons that are against our established religion should happen to exceed those that are for it ; by the help of these bonds of resignation , the title to most of our parochial cures would in a little time fall into the hands of popish priests : which would much facilitate the introducing their religion ; when so many protestant incumbents would so easily be turned out , by no other means , but by these bonds of resignation . and therefore it is not meerly the interest of our parochial clergy , but of our religion , which lies at stake . and this i suppose will be sufficient to justify this undertaking . westminster , iuly . . e. w. a discourse concerning bonds of resignation &c. the design of this discourse , is to enquire into a case , too commonly practised among us , and too little examin'd ; which is concerning bonds of resignation given by clergymen to patrons in order to the obtaining a presentation to a benefice with cure of souls . this is a case which respects both law and conscience : and it is not so easy a matter , as some seem to take it for granted , to resolve it as to either of them . for if such a practice be within the reason and intention of the law , which forbids all corrupt presentations and resignations , eliz. c. . then it cannot be justified by law ; and if it be against the scope and design of the oath against simoniacal contracts , then it can much less be justified in point of conscience . and whether it be or not , is the subject of this present discourse ; which i am sorry there is so much occasion for ; but since there are too many that practise it , and others too ready to defend it ; and since it is of so mischievous consequence to the interest of the church of england , if it prevails ▪ i think it highly necessary to enquire more strictly into this matter , than hath been hitherto done . which i shall do in such a manner , as to make it appear that no considerations whatsoever have swayed me , but those of law and conscience ; and i hope those who have been drawn into such snares will see cause to repent , ( if they do it not already ) and others take care how they run themselves into such perplexities , which no precedents in point of law , and no authority in point of conscience can give them satisfaction in . but i intend no reflections on particular persons ; and i cannot believe that any who have impartially weighed these things can maintain the lawfulness of them so , as to wish them generally practised . for , however there may be some cases wherein such bonds may be thought far more reasonable than in others : yet it cannot be denied that there are far more cases , wherein such a practice must be destructive to the legal rights of the church . suppose some patrons to be persons of great piety and integrity , who do require these bonds only to bind the clergy the more strictly to do their duty : suppose others have no regard to their own interest , but only take care of minors , bred up with a prospect of such benefices which they are not yet capable of : ( which are the most reasonable considerations insisted upon in the adjudged cases : ) but what are these to the multitude of most unjust and unreasonable considerations , which may be made the conditions of these bonds ? for the bonds are supposed to be general ; and so the patrons left at liberty to impose their own conditions . and , are there no such kind of patrons among us who may be too justly suspected to mind their own interest above the churches good ? and therefore will take all ways to lessen the profits of benefices in their disposal , as far as they are told that the law permits them ? such i mean , who have no restraint but what the law lays upon them , having no sense of honour or conscience in these matters . and if it once pass for an allowed doctrine in law , that bonds of resignation are lawfull ; what shall stop such men from putting very unreasonable conditions upon their incumbents , or else they may presently call them to an account for the forfeiture of their bonds ? if then there be no effectual course so much as offer'd , against very hard and unreasonable terms ; how can such bonds be thought just and reasonable ? it may be said , that if the conditions be such as are allowed by law , then the bonds are lawfull , otherwise not . but this by no means clears the difficulty . for the main question is , whether such bonds be lawfull , where the conditions are not expressed ; but meer notice of three or six months ? and these are the general bonds of resignation : and such i think i may with reason affirm to be against both law and conscience . but suppose there may be conditions of both kinds required , but it is not expressed in the bonds what they are : what a miserable slavery must the clergy be under , who give general bonds , and know not what conditions will be required ? and then they must go to law , and be at greater charge and trouble than they can well bear , to know whether the conditions required of them be such as the law allows or not ? so that the general allowance of bonds of resignation upon notice , although the law be left to determine the particular conditions , is that which we have reason to look upon as very hard and unjust , and inconsistent with the nature and design of that relation which the law supposes between patrons and incumbents , as will appear more afterwards . there are two things chiefly insisted on by those who plead for these bonds of resignation : i. that there is no law against them ; ii. that there have been cases adjudged for them : and both these i shall carefully examine . i. that there is no law against them . there are two laws to be consider'd in this matter : . the law against simoniacal contracts eliz ; . the law which requires every incumbent to take an oath against simony . . as to the law against simoniacal contracts : the statute is expresly against presenting to a benefice for a summ of money , reward , gift , profit or benefit , directly or indirectly , or entring into bond or covenant for that purpose ; eliz. c. . n. . wherein these things are observable : ( . ) that it is not a meer summ of money which is here forbidden , but any benefit whatsoever , directly or indirectly . ( . ) that not meer doing the thing , but entring into bond or covenant to do it is within the reach of this law. ( . ) that the penalty is against such who do present for or by reason of any promise or agreement for any benefit whatsoever : or those who do accept such presentations on those terms : i. e. so as it becomes the motive of such presentation or acceptance . ( . ) that the same law declares n. . against corrupt resigning or exchanging the benefice he enjoys , for any summ of money or benefit whatsoever . ( . ) that the ecclesiastical censures still remain in force against these offences : which supposes that this law doth not supersede the ecclesiastical laws here in being . n. . so that here are two material questions to be resolved upon this statute . [ . ] whether since the making this statute , there be any simoniacal contract , but what is against the purport of it ? [ . ] whether a bond of resignation , upon which a benefice is given and accepted , be within the design of it ? [ . ] as to the former ; it is observable that the words simony or simoniacal contract are never mentioned in this statute . for , if they had , the judges would have had sufficient reason to have declared what was simony and what not . we are told indeed by the reverend and learned judges in the case of mackaller and todderick , that the consideration to have money to procure one to be rector of a church is a simoniacal contract , and an unlawfull act condemned by all laws : and that the common law before the statute eliz. took notice of it . but they do not declare how far the common law could take notice of it , before that statute ; any farther than that it was not a thing allowed by it . for certainly it was then of spiritual cognisance : and the persons guilty of it were to be proceeded against by the ecclesiastical laws . and consequently , the notion of simony is to be taken from thence , and not meerly from this statute : so that if accepting a benefice upon giving a bond of resignation were simoniacal before , it doth not cease to be so by this statute . indeed corrupt resignation of a benefice hath not the same penalty by this statute with corrupt acceptance of it at first : for that is a disability , and the other double the value . but hereby we see that the one is against the law , as much as the other . so far then it is clear by this statute , that any corrupt resignation is against law : and if the enquiry be after the penalty , the statute must determine that . but if the question be , whether resignation upon a bond given before-hand in order to a presentation be a simoniacal act or not , as done in pursuance of a simoniacal contract ? in that the statute gives no rule ; but only declares the penalties of some particular acts , which are there expressed . those who would have nothing now to be simony , but what is there forbidden , must first prove that the intention of the law was to limit and determine the nature of simony ; which ( as is already observed ) is not so much as mention'd in it . the reason of the law as to penalties is one thing , and the nature of a simoniacal contract another . if a question be put , whether a simoniacal contract be void in law or not ? my lord coke saith , that the statute doth not make the bond , covenant , promise , or other assurance void , but the presentment &c. and so it was adjudged eliz. this is somewhat strange doctrine : that a presentment should be void by reason of a simoniacal bond , and yet that bond not be void in law. for that which makes another thing void , one would think should be void in it self : especially since he saith in the same chapter , that simony is odious in the eye of the common law. but not so very odious : if a simoniacal contract be a good contract according to the common law. but he distinguisheth between malum in se against the common law , and malum prohibitum by statute law. how doth this clear the point ? the presentation is void , being prohibited by the statute : but is not a simoniacal contract malum in se against the common law ? how then comes this not to be void ? especially since it is contractus ex turpi causâ : and for that reason my lord hobart held it void in law ; and so the court held in mackaller's case . but suppose my lord coke in the right as to a simoniacal contract ; that it is not void at common law : it follows from thence , that the consideration of law and conscience is different in this matter . for i suppose none will deny that a simoniacal contract is unlawfull in point of conscience : and yet he asserts it , not to be void in law. why then may not bonds of resignation , although not within the compass of this statute , yet be unlawful in point of conscience : as well as a simoniacal contract be unlawful in point of conscience , and yet be good by the common law ? either therefore simony , as odious as it is in the eye of the law , must not be malum in se against common law , as my lord coke speaks : or if it be , there must be another rule of conscience in this matter from this statute . i would fain know , what was simony at common law before this statute : and whether that which was so before doth not continue so still , if it be not taken away by it ? for , if there be no simony now , but what is expressed in that statute : then it must declare ; what is simony and what not . simony , saith my lord coke , is described by this act , eliz. and he saith in his margin , injustum est illa vendere , quae gratis distribui debent : which is a very good illustration of it . but the question is , what is meant by selling ? whether it be meerly for a summ of money , paid down , or secured by bond or covenant ? or whether it doth not take in any kind of benefit or emolument accruing to the person who bestows it , which hinders it from being a free gift ? the casuists say , nomine emptionis & venditionis intelligitur omnis contractus non gratuitus . but can that be called a free gift , where there is a bond of resignation of such a thing , whereof the possession and reversion bear a price , and have a real value ? we need not run to simon magus to understand what turpe commercium is . there were many laws among the old romans against purchasing any publick offices ; and they thought it a great reproach to them for any price to be set upon them : as the great roman master said , pretium quod habet , hoc ipso vilescit . by the laws acilia , and calpurnia , all that were convict of giving money for offices , were under a disability , or incapacity of any for the future ; and the mercatores potestatum were infamous by their laws . aristotle thought it a matter of very ill consequence to any government to have any thing of money given for offices : because it taught men to set a greater value on money than vertue . these considerations , setting aside the story of simon magus , were great enough to induce the christian church to be extremely nice and tender in this matter of benefices : and not only to forbid the direct sale of them for money ; but any indirect trafficking which might take of the entire freedom of the presentation of persons to them . i know to how little purpose it would be , to reckon up all the canons which have been made in the christian church from the apostles times downwards against simony : because some will say , that the ecclesiasticks were always true to their own interest . but let us set aside all prejudice in this matter , and consider it impartially . if any offices in the world ought to be free from the suspicion of sordid trafficking : certainly those of the church ought , from the nature and design of their imployments . the question then will come to this , whether giving a bond of resignation in order to the procuring a benefice , be such a trafficking or not ? and we have three rules to judge by : . the nature and reason of the thing : whether such actings be not inconsistent with that freedom , which ought to be used , both in giving and taking ecclesiastical benefices ? so that , if there were no laws either ecclesiastical or civil in the case ; whether there be not something in these transactions unbecoming the design and dignity of the employment ? . the ecclesiastical law of england ; which hath been from time to time receiv'd here and allow'd by a general consent ; and still continues in force , where it is not repugnant to any laws of the realm : which cannot be pretended in this case . . the statute law ; which doth not abrogate the ecclesiastical law as to simony : it only enacts some particular penalties on some more remarkable simoniacal acts , as to benefices and orders ; but never once goes about to repeal any ecclesiastical laws about simony , or to determin the nature and bounds of it . [ . ] but let us come more closely to the statute it self ; to see whether these bonds of resignation be not against the design of it . the words are , if any person for any summ of money , reward , gift , profit or benefit , directly or indirectly ; or for or by reason of any promise , agreement , grant , bond , covenant , or other assurance of or for any summ of money , gift or profit whatsoever , directly or indirectly ; shall present &c. now we suppose a patron to present one to a benefice , without any money , or bond for money ; but he declares before his presenting him , that he must enter into a bond to resign his benefice upon six months notice under a severe penalty : to which he submits , on the condition of obtaining his benefice . after this , the patron demands such a portion of tythes ; or a consent for him to inclose , to the apparent benefit of the patron , and diminution of the profits of the living . the question is , whether such a bond be within the design of this statute ? all that can be said is , that no such consideration is expressed in the bond , which is in general terms : which implies , that if the consideration had been expressed in the bond , it had been plainly against the law. but suppose it be left out of the bond : is not the penal summ of the forfeiture of the bond sufficient to make the poor incumbent comply with the terms proposed afterwards ? if none but just and reasonable things had been intended ; why were they not clearly expressed in the bond it self , so as to prevent any fear or jealousy of worse designs ? have no such things ever been practised , or heard of among us ? if there had not ; doth it not look like a contrivance to deceive the law , and to hamper the consciences of those who take benefices ? and whatever is done in fraudem legis , is against law : for it frustrates the main intention and design of a law without breaking the letter of it ; which is the worst way of defeating a law. but we are told , that our courts of law are to judge according to the law ; and not according to an equitable construction of the intention and design of it . if it be really so ; it doth only shew that such courts are under a strange limitation , which are tied up to the letter of a law , against the main scope and principal end of it . but by the judges oath e. . n. . e. . n. l. they are bound to do equal law and execution of right to all the king's subjects &c. what is here meant by equal law ? is it to pursue the letter of the law against the reason and design of it ? there are two sorts of equity to be consider'd among us ; . an equity founded upon a reasonable construction of law , according to the intention of it : . an equity for which the common law hath made no provision ; as in cases of fraud , accident and trust : which is the true foundation of the court of equity in chancery ; viz. to supply the defects of our law in those cases . the question now is , whether the judges at common law are so tied up to the bare letter of it , that they cannot take-in such cases , which are according to the reason of a law , but not within the words of it ? and my lord coke allows this sort of equity . for , saith he , equity is a construction made by the iudges , that cases out of the letter of a statute , yet being within the same mischief or cause of making of the same , shall be within the same remedy that that statute provideth . these are remarkable words of this great oracle of the law , and ought to be well weighed and considered in all such cases as this . and he afterwards saith , that equity is the reason of the law , which weighs cases according to their due measures ; and so gives in paribus rationibus paria iura & iudicia . if then these bonds of resignation are within the reason of this law , and tend to the same mischief ; they ought to have the same remedy : and it cannot be made any just plea for them , that they are not within the letter of the law. ii. i now come to consider the oath against simony , which every incumbent is bound to take ; which runs in these words : i , a. b. do swear that i have made no simoniacal payment contract or promise , directly or indirectly , by my self or by any other , to my knowledge or with my consent , to any person or persons whatsoever , for or concerning the procuring or obtaining of the rectory or vicarage ; nor will at any time hereafter perform or satisfy any such kind of payment , contract or promise , made by any other without my knowledge or consent . simony , saith my lord coke , is the more odious , because it is ever accompanied with perjury ; for the presentee is sworn to commit no simony . here are two things fit to be considered : . that the oath is not meerly against direct simony ; but against any simoniacal contract for obtaining a benefice . . that this oath is not limited to the statute eliz. nor made in pursuance of it ; but was in being long before : and therefore must have its interpretation from the ecclesiastical law , as it was here receiv'd ; and not from the words of the statute , which do not mention a simoniacal contract . we must then enquire what was a simoniacal contract by our ecclesiastical law. in our provincial constitutions , which were receiv'd as part of our law relating to ecclesiastical matters , there is one about an oath to be taken by every one presented before the bishop : that for the obtaining the presentation he had neither promised nor given any thing to him that presented him ; nec aliquam propter hoc inierit pactionem ; nor enter'd into any bond or covenant for that end : not a covenant , to pay a summ of money , but to obtain the presentation . propter hoc , saith lyndwood , sc. ut praesentetur : and he declares it before , that whatever is done with an intention to induce the patron to present , is simoniacal ; and whatever compact any enter into for that purpose , is a simoniacal contract . nay he goes so far as to say , the doing any thing with that design to obtain a benefice makes it a mental simony : ( which reaches not to the oath , and requires no more but repentance ) but if there be a bargain between the patron and the party to be presented , he declares it to be a simoniacal contract . he puts the question , if a person offers to serve a patron for a year or two , with that intention to obtain the presentation to such a benefice by it , whether such a one can with a safe conscience take the oath ? he answers negatively , if this were his principal design , and there were a bond or covenant between them to that purpose : for this were simony . from whence it follows ; that any bond or covenant enter'd into for that end , to obtain a presentation , was simoniacal according to the sense of our law ecclesiastical . in the time of archbishop courtney , the form of the oath was more full and express , as it is extant in the archbishop's register called morton , and in spelman's councils : for there is this clause added , that neither themselves nor any friends of theirs are under any bonds about the resignation or exchange of their benefices . here the oath is express against any bonds of resignation . but why is this clause left out since ? because it was supposed to be sufficiently implied in the other words : since this was at least an indirect simoniacal contract . it may be said , that men are not now tied up to the canonists opinions about mental and conventional simony : for out law owns nothing but real simony ; i. e. either actual payment , or a bond to pay such a summ of money to obtain a presentation : and if there be no contract for that end , it is no simoniacal contract according to our law. this is all that can be said in this case : but i think it can give no considering man satisfaction . for the intention of the law , in being so strict and severe against all simoniacal contracts , was twofold : . to preserve the dignity of the sacred function ; which could never be upheld , if mean and sordid trafficking were allowed as to benefices . for the people can never have any due respect or veneration for a person , whom they suspect to have come into his place among them by indirect practises ; although it be not the payment of so much money . for they have so much sense as to know , that what is valuable by money is as good as money according to its proportion : and if a man gives a bond to resign his living upon notice ; they know how much this abates of the value of it to him , when he holds it on such a precarious title : and that he gives so much to obtain the living , as it is of less value to him , than if he had it without any such bond. he that is forced by a bond to resign his benefice , must part with what was really valuable to him ; as much as the possession of it for so many years , as he might otherwise enjoy it , would come to : and he that gives a bond to that purpose to obtain a presentation , doth oblige himself to give to the patron so much as that interest can be valued at . is not a free unconditional interest in a benefice really more valuable , than that which depends on the pleasure of another ? if it be ; then he that gives a bond of resignation , doth give something really valuable in money , to obtain the presentation . and how can this be excused from simony ? yes ; some may say , simony is only a frightfull word used by ecclesiasticks to deter people from making the best of their own : whereas the true notion of simony is only buying the gifts of the holy ghost : but what relation is there between the gifts of the holy ghost and a benefice ? i do not think there are any so weak , as to imagine the gifts of the holy ghost can be purchased with money given to patrons : and if they could , the dealers in such bargains would not think them worth their money ; which they could lay out upon things of greater value to them . but here lies the true state of the case . it hath been the wisdom and charity of princes and other persons of estates , to make endowments of parochial churches for the support and incouragement of those in holy orders to attend upon the service of god in them : and the law of the land hath so annexed the spiritual duty with the temporal advantage , that no one can be capable of the latter , that is not obliged to the other . so that the right of discharging a spiritual trust and the right of enjoying the profits go together . but to prevent the unspeakable mischief of purchasing the profits which are devoted to such a spiritual use , this hath been called by the detestable name of simony : and very severe laws have been made , not only against the giving of money , but the using of any indirect means to obtain a presentation . because such things do lessen the esteem of those who use them ; and not only thereby make them more uncapable of doing service , but expose the sacred function it self to contempt . . another great end of these laws , is to keep the clergy from oppression and slavery . i am far from going about to lessen the just and legal rights of patrons ; who by our laws enjoy some privileges , which are not allowed them in other countries , where the ecclesiastical law is stricter than here in england : as in the liberty of selling the rights of advowsons ; their trial at common law ; the six months for patrons &c. but for our right understanding the present matter , it must be consider'd , as to the rights of patrons , that it was not an original and absolute right to dispose of benefices as they pleased ; but a limited trust reposed in them , to put-in fit persons to discharge the duties of their places . it is very well known to all persons who have looked into these matters , that in the first settlement of this church of england , the bishops of the several dioceses had them under their own immediate care ; and that they had the clergy living in a community with them , whom they sent abroad to several parts of their dioceses , as they saw occasion to imploy them : but that by degrees , they saw a necessity of fixing presbyters within such a compass , to attend upon the service of god among the people that were the inhabitants : that these precincts which are since called parishes , were at first much larger , and cast into such divisions in each diocese , as probably make up the several deaneries since : that when lords of manors were inclined to build churches for their own conveniencies , they found it necessary to make some endowments , to oblige those who officiated in their churches to a diligent attendance : that upon this , the several bishops were very well content to let those patrons have the nomination of persons to those churches ; provided they were satisfied of the fitness of those persons , and that it were not deferred beyond such a limited time . so that the right of patronage is really but a limited trust ; and the bishops are still in law the judges of the fitness of the persons to be imployed in the several parts of their dioceses . but the patrons never had the absolute disposal of their benefices upon their own terms ; but if they did not present fit persons within the limited time , the care of the places did return to the bishop , who was then bound to provide for them . some pretend , that before the lateran council , there was no time of lapse to the bishop , if the patron did not present : but that the bishop was to provide one to serve the cure in the mean time , and the patron might present when he would . but this is certainly a mistake : however it be asserted by persons of great authority . my lord coke cites bracton and fleta for it : but i can find nothing like it in either of them . bracton indeed speaks of the time of lapse by the council of lateran , which was to be after six months , if a dispute happen'd about the title ; and this constitution is extant in the decretals : and the same words are used by fleta : but not a word in either of them of any unlimited power which patrons had before , as far as i can find . which made me wonder at such a maxim , as i find by several father'd on bracton , ante concilium lateranense nullum currebat tempus contra praesentantes . but rolls very fairly reports it just as it is in bracton ; yet afterwards he recites mr. selden's words . before this lateran council , alex. had sent a constitution hither , which allow'd the bishops , in case any difference happened about the patronage , to sequester the profits , without fixing the time : which is all the foundation i can meet with for this famous maxim. but before this we may observe several canons of councils , which limited the patrons to three months . these canons were never receiv'd in england ; which , if i mistake not , had always the privilege of six months for patrons . this i ground upon the register , a book of great authority , and considerable antiquity ; where it is said expresly , that the bishops have not the right of lapse till six months are passed ; which is said to be secundum legem & consuetudinem regni angliae ; according to the ancient custom and law of england . and the like was observed in the old customs of normandy . but by the ancient law of england , notwithstanding the right of patronage , the bishop of the diocese had these rights reserved to him : . the right of admission of the person presented : . the right of lapse , or bestowing the benefice , if the patron failed his six months : . the right of making an avoidance , by deprivation or resignation . . the bishop hath by the law the right of admission of the person presented by the patron . for here from the time of christianity being receiv'd among the saxons , at least as far as we can trace any footsteps of the settlement of a parochial clergy , it was expresly provided for ; that no presbyters should be fixed in any places , without the consent of the bishop . for this we have a canon of theodore archbishop of canterbury , preserved by egbert archbishop of york ( each the seventh in their sees , but at some distance of time ) in his collection of canons : the words are , statutum est ut sine authoritate & consensu episcoporum , presbyteri in quibuslibet ▪ ecclesiis non constituantur , nec inde expellantur ; & siquis hoc facere tentaverit , synodali sententiâ feriatur . so that by the original constitution of this church the bishops had the power of fixing presbyters in churches , and of removing them if there were occasion ; and no other persons could do it without them . this doth by no means infringe the right of nomination or presentation of fit persons to the bishop : but it implies that no such presentation was sufficient , unless the bishop did first approve and consent to the person . wherein the ancient right of patronage here in england did consist , we cannot have a better account ; than from the words of all the nobility of england in their remonstrance to gregory ix . when he attempted to incroach upon them by papal provisions : cum igitur à primâ christianitatis fundatione in angliâ , tali fuerint hactenus progenitores nostri gavisi libertate , quod decedentibus ecclesiarum rectoribus , ecclesiarum patroni personas idoneas eligentes ad easdem , diocesanis praesentaverunt ab eisdem ecclesiarum regimini praeficiendas . these are words of great weight ; and do plainly shew , that the right of patronage consisted in the nomination of fit persons to the bishop of the diocese for any vacant places : but that the bishops were , if they approved them , to put them into the possession of them . in the time of innocent iii. the king wrote to the pope ; that the nobility and bishops of england did insist upon it , as their right by the ancient custom , to build churches on their own lands : and the pope yielded it to the laity , provided that they had the consent of the bishop of the diocese ; and that the rights of former churches were not prejudiced thereby . but saith mr. selden , they challenged it without licence . what to do ? to build churches on their own lands : but not a word of putting-in any incumbents by their own power without the bishop's consent and approbation . nay , it appears that they could not build churches on their own lands without the bishops allowance . mr. selden would fain have it believed , that the right of presentation to the bishop of the diocese came in by the canon law about a. d. . but the insinuations of that kind , as they are frequent in his book of tythes , so they do shew his want of skill or ingenuity at that time , as much as any one part of it . but i need go no farther , than this letter of the nobility to the pope ; who were extremely jealous of their rights of patronage , and yet they challenged nothing thereby , but a right of nomination of a fit person to the bishop of the diocese : not a word of investiture or collation by the patron ; which mr. selden talks of . he doth not deny , that after a. d. , it was the undoubted law of england for the patrons to present to the bishops . but i say , it was the law of england , before ever the decretals were made : it was the original and fundamental law of the english church ; and as ancient as the right of patronage . in the same epistle , they desire the pope to leave them to their ancient liberty , which was personas idoneas praesentare . but who is to be judge of the fitness of the persons ? for that , we have a full declaration of the ancient law and custom of england , in artic. cleri , c. . de idoneitate personae praesentatae ad beneficium ecclesiasticum , pertinet examinatio ad iudicem ecclesiasticum , & ita est hactenus usitatum , & fiat in posterum . upon which my lord coke saith , that the examination of the ability and sufficiency of the person belongs to the bishop , who is the ecclesiastical iudge ; and in this examination he is a iudge and not a minister ; and may and ought to refuse the person presented , if he be not persona idonea . and that this was no new law , appears by the words , that it had been hitherto so used , and should be so for the time to come . and so coke truly saith , that this act was but a declaration of the common law and custom of the realm . so that the bishops power of examining and iudging the fitness of the person presented is a part of the common law of england . h. . . it is declared by all the judges , that the bishop in the examination of a clerk , is a iudge and not a minister . and if he misbehaves himself , he is to be punished as a iudge . h. . keilway saith , that the bishop may refuse for insufficiency ; and is to give notice to the patron . it was resolved by the court in specot ' s case , that the court is to give credit to the bishop acting iudicially : but then it is said , that the plea must be special and certain . and so coke saith , that in a quare impedit brought against the bishop for refusal of his clerk , he must shew the cause of his refusal specially and directly . but it was the opinion of lord chief justice anderson , that in things not triable at common law a general plea was sufficient . but when the case came to the king's bench eliz. it was there said , that the articuli cleri mention a reasonable cause ; which , say they , must be special : for causa vaga & incerta non est rationabilis . but the main point is , who is to judge what is a reasonable cause ? and i cannot but think that anderson's opinion is the truest and most reasonable . if it be for a matter triable at common law , that court is to judge : but if not , i do not see how it can be avoided , but the bishop must judge : and his judgment of insufficiency must be taken ; as well as in any certificate whatsoever . for , if the law trust him with the judgment of a matter proper for him to judge of ; other courts , which have no cognizance of it , must give credit to such a certificate : or else they must take upon them to judge in matters that are not of their cognisance ; which is to confound the jurisdiction of courts . i grant , the judgment of the bishop is not conclusive : but the appeal then lies to the supreme ecclesiastical court ; and the metropolitan is to be judge of the sufficiency of the person . but is not this a great prejudice to the right of patrons , if the bishops are to judge of the fitness of persons presented ; and so the patrons presentation may signify nothing , if the bishop pleases ? this is a trust which the law reposes in the bishop , and it lies upon his conscience to act sincerely in this matter : and in case of examination of fit persons , a trust must be placed somewhere : and in whom more properly than in the bishop of the diocese ? to whom the care of it doth especially belong ; and that by as plain law as any we have . are not all judges trusted in matters that come before them ? but this is no decisive judgment : for an appeal lies according to the nature of the matter . and this is no other trust than hath been allow'd in all other christian nations , where the rights of patronage are owned . iustinian owns it several times in his novels ; not only that the bishops are to examine and approve those who are nominated by founders of churches ; but if they find them unworthy , they may put others in their room . by the capitulars , or old ecclesiastical laws of france , the lay patrons are not only to present to the bishop such as were probabilis vitae & doctrinae ; but if upon examination they found them otherwise , it was in their power to reject them . as to the canon law , there can be no dispute in this point : but if the bishop refused , an appeal did lie to the pope ; and if he were unjustly refused , the bishop was bound to provide for him : but during the appeal , the patron might present another ; whom if the bishop approved , the appeal did fall . rebuffus a noted lawyer saith , that it is a damning sin in a bishop , not to examine the fitness of those who are presented by patrons . and a late learned french canonist saith , those are to blame who lay the fault of so many unworthy men being in places on the lay patrons : for , saith he , the bishops are to blame , who are bound to examine , and if they see cause , to reject them . so that we have not only our own law , but the general consent of the christian world , where the right of patronage is allow'd ; as to the bishops right of examining and iudging the fitness of persons presented to benefices . . the right of collation upon lapse belongs to the bishop , notwithstanding the right of patronage . it is said by lord hobart , that a lapse is not an interest naturally , but a meer trust in law ; and afterwards ; that the ordinary , or he that is to present by lapse , is as a kind of attourney made by law , to do that for the patron ; which it is supposed he would do himself , if there were not some lett : and therefore the collation by lapse is in the right of the patron and for his turn . this seems to me to be a mistaken notion of a lapse : for the true question is , whether upon a lapse the ordinary doth collate iure pleno , or iure devoluto ? some french lawyers held the latter ; but car. molinaeus and others utterly reject that opinion , for this reason ; because churches and dioceses were iure communi under the care of the bishops ; but it was by particular indulgence , that the patrons had the right of presentation : which being neglected , things do return to common right : and therefore the bishop hath a true interest , and acts not in the right of the patron , but his own. it 's true , there is a devolution afterwards by our law : for as the author of the doctor and student saith , the law of the realm is , that if a benefice falls void , then the patron shall present within six months ; and if he do not , that then the ordinary shall present : but yet the law is farther in this case , that if the patron present before the ordinary put-in his clerk , that then the patron shall enjoy his presentment : and so it is , though the time should fall to the metropolitan . for , as he saith , by our law , if the bishop doth not collate within six months , then the metropolitan presents . but this is by a right of devolution , and then why not the other ? the answer is , that the bishop is ordinary of the diocese , and therefore it comes to him of common right : but it falls to the archbishop , not as ordinary , but as superiour ; to whom the right of devolution falls upon the inferiour's neglect . for , although in some respects , and in the excepted cases , the archbishop may be said to be ordinary of the whole province : yet that is not so much in respect of immediate iurisdiction ; which hobart and others say , was by virtue of the legatine power which was annexed to his see. but the archbishop hath a power as metropolitan , to supply the defects of the suffragans of his province ; and so this right of collating upon defect of the ordinary comes to him by right of devolution . but how then comes the king to his right after the metropolitan's neglect ? that is , say our lawyers , because the king is patron paramount of all the benefices within the realm . the meaning is , that the king by right of his crown is to see that all places be duely supplied with persons fit for them : and if all others whom the law hath entrusted , do neglect their duties ; then by the natural order and course of government , it falls to the supreme power , which is to supply defects , and to reform abuses . . the bishop hath the right of making an avoidance by deprivation or resignation . for , as he hath the power of putting-in ; so the law hath lodged in him the judicial power of proceeding against offenders , and hath not left that to the judgment of the patron . if we enquire , who by our law is made the proper judge of a beneficed person , whether he behaves himself so as to deserve to lose his benefice ? will any one say , that the law hath put this into the patron 's hands ? yet all those who justify these bonds of resignation must in effect say , that the patrons are the proper judges : for they have the real power of deprivation in their hands , and may execute it when they please . which is such an arbitrary jurisdiction , as would be thought intolerable in other hands . in all causes of deprivation of a person actually possessed of a benefice , these things must concur : . a monition or citation of the party to appear : . a charge given him , to which he is to answer , called the libel : . a competent time assigned for the proofs and answers : . a liberty for counsel to defend his cause ; and to except against the proofs and witnesses : . a solemn sentence after hearing all the proofs and answers . these are the fundamentals of all judicial proceedings in the ecclesiastical courts , in order to a deprivation : and if these things be not observed , the party hath just cause of appeal , and may have remedy by a superiour court. and these proceedings are agreeable to the common justice and reason of mankind : because the party accused hath the liberty of defence , and the right of appeal . but there is nothing of all this , in bonds of resignation : for the patron takes the advantage of the forfeiture of the bond ; and so without any trial , or proof , or sentence , deprives him of his benefice . some who are no friends to the ecclesiastical courts , would have no deprivation of a benefice , but by proceedings at common law : because it is a freehold . suppose that it were so ( which seems contrary to the course of the law : for the bishop in a plea to a quare impedit , saith , nihil clamat praeter institutionem & destitutionem clericorum ; and ecclesiastical deprivations have been still allow'd at common law , if they have been according to the ecclesiastical laws ) but taking it for granted , that a deprivation of a freehold ought to be at common law : what then ? what , without an indictment , and without a trial by a jury ? no hearing of the cause , no witnesses examin'd , no counsel to be heard , no judgment by his peers ? and can this be agreeable to the fundamental laws of england ; to have men forced out of their freeholds in such an arbitrary manner ? what would they think ; if other freehold estates , which hold of a superiour lord , were made so arbitrary , as to depend upon the will of the lord so , as to be turned out upon six months notice ? let us see bonds of resignation practised upon such estates : and then we shall soon find , what clamours will be made against them , as overthrowing the fundamental rights and liberties of the people . is there not the same reason in this case ? is there not greater ? because these benefices are not freeholds , which are held of the patrons ; but they have only a right to present fit persons to them . but it may be , that the defenders of these bonds will deny benefices to be freeholds by the law of england . it is easy to guess , what some men would have them to be , by these bonds : i am sure far enough from freeholds . but such private transactions cannot alter the nature of things : and we are now enquiring , what benefices are , by the law of england ? it is disputed at common law , in whom the freehold of the glebeland of a benefice is , during the voidance ? and it is agreed , that it is neither in the patron nor ordinary : because it was given to the incumbents and their successors . and therefore they tell us , it is then in abeyance ; which is a pretty way of expressing , that the law takes care that it shall come to the next incumbent , notwithstanding the discontinuance by death of his predecessor : and i think it had been as well said , that it was in the law , although not in any person . but it is not disputed , but that as soon as another incumbent is in possession , the freehold is in him : for those are littleton's words , sect. . and my lord coke saith , that the incumbent cannot be look'd on , as a meer tenant for life : because he may have such writs , which none can have but a tenant in fee-simple or fee-tail ; and he may receive homage , which tenant for life cannot do . and for this he goes as far back as the time of e. . but long before that , in glanvil's time , which was of h. . it is said , that he that is possessed of a benefice by institution from the bishop , and judged fit by him , shall enjoy it for his life ; although the right of advowson be disputed . which is several times affirmed by my lord coke upon good reason . in one place he saith , that at the common law , if a church be once full , the incumbent could not be removed : ( excepting just cause of deprivation ) and plenarty generally was a good plea in a quare impedit , or assise of darein presentment : and the reason of this was , to the intent the incumbent might apply himself to his spiritual charge . . the law intended , that the bishop that had cure of souls within his diocese would admit and institute an able man for the discharge of his duty and his own ; and that the bishop would do right to every patron in his diocese . in another place he saith , that by the order of common law , if one had presented unto a church whereto he had no right , and the bishop had admitted and instituted his clerk , this incumbent could not be removed for divers reasons : . for that he came into the church by a iudicial act of the bishop . . that by the common law , in every town and parish there ought to be persona idonea : and when the bishop had admitted him able , which implied that he was idonea persona , then the law had his final intention , viz. that the church should be sufficiently provided for . . that the incumbent having curam animarum might the more effectually and peaceably intend so great charge ; the common law provided , that after institution he should not be subject to any action , to be removed at the suit of any common person ; without all respect of age , coverture , imprisonment , or non-sane-memory ; and without regard of title , either by descent or purchase , or of any estate . are these things consistent with bonds of resignation ? but it may be said , that here is no deprivation supposed , but a voluntary resignation : and what hurt is there , if it be a man 's own act ? i answer , that we are not only to consider the act of the person , but the interest and general concernment of the church in it . for in all matters of such a publick nature , we are not to regard so much the consent of the party , as the nature and consequence of the act it self . if it be an illegal thing , and tend to subvert the rights of the church ; it cannot make it legal to say , that it was his own act. now as to this kind of resignation , we are to consider these two things : . that if the resignation be not into the hands of the bishop , it is an illegal act , and void of it self : . that if it be into the bishop's hands , he hath the power in law to accept it or not . . that the resignation must be into the hands of the bishop . for a resignation into the hands of the patron , is by the canon law declared to be null and void of it self . so innocent iv. ad c. . de rerum per. and this is grounded on the text of the canon law. c. . q. . c. gonsaldus : and on the appendix to the lateran council under alex. iii. de renunt . tit . . c. pen. where it is declared to be an unworthy thing , and contrary to the canons , to resign into the hands of patrons . and alex. iii. forbids it absolutely under an anathema , de renunt . c. . which is confirmed by innocent iii. c. . in the decretals . but we are to consider especially , how far this part of the canon law was here receiv'd ; and we can have no better a judge in this case than lyndwood , who saith positively , that renuntiatio facta in manus laici etiam sponte non tenet ; i. e. a resignation made into the hands of a lay-patron , if it be never so free , doth not hold : and therefore he saith , it must be made into the hands of him who hath the ordinary iurisdiction , and therefore hath power to admit . he observes two things very material as to the point of resignation : . that a voluntary resignation , though not to the ordinary , deprives the party of the possession ; so as he cannot recover , although he be not wholly devested of the property , or right to the thing : quia sine consensu superioris non tenet resignatio : and this is founded on that fundamental reason , that the care of the diocese belongs to him , who hath the ordinary jurisdiction ; who was the bishop : but as lyndwood observes , by custom and composition , this is put into other hands ; as in places of exempt jurisdiction . and so , where the power of granting institution is lodged by the bishop's consent , and a prescription upon it ; there is a power likewise of receiving a resignation : but not in any , who have only a delegated power from the bishop . for there is a difference in law and reason between an ordinary power depending on an ancient prescription and composition ( as it is in several places in the deans and chapters within certain precincts ) and an ordinary power in a substitute , as a chancellor or vicar-general . for although such an officer hath the same court with the bishop , so that the legal acts of the court are the bishop's acts , by whose authority he sits there ; so that no appeal lies from the bishop's officer to himself , but to the superiour : and although a commissary be allow'd to have the power of the ordinary in testamentary causes , which were not originally of spiritual iurisdiction , as it is said in henslow's case , with which lindwood agrees : yet in acts of spiritual and voluntary iurisdiction the case is otherwise . for the bishop by appointing a chancellor , doth not devest himself of his own ordinary power : but he may delegate some parts of it by commission to others , which goes no farther than is expressed in it . for it is a very great mistake in any to think , that such who act by a delegated power , can have any more power than is given to them ; where a special commission is required for the exercise of it . for by the general commission no other authority passes , but that of hearing causes : but all acts of voluntary jurisdiction require a special commission , which the bishop may restrain as he sees cause . for as lyndwood saith , nothing passes , virtute officii , but the hearing of causes : so that other acts depend upon the bishop's particular grant for that purpose . and the law no-where determins the bounds of a chancellor's power as to such acts ; nor can it be supposed so to do , since it is but a delegated power : and it is in the right of him that deputes , to circumscribe and limit it . neither can use or custom inlarge such a power , which depends upon another's will. and however , by modern practise , the patents for such places have passed for the life of the person , to whom they were first granted ; yet it was not so , by the ancient ecclesiastical law of england . for lyndwood affirms , that a grant of jurisdiction ceases by the death of him who gave it : per mortem deputantis cessat potestas officialium : ( or else it could never pass into the dean and chapter sede vacante ; or to the guardian of the spiritualties . ) and he gives a good reason for it ; nè invitus habeat officialem sibi fortassis odiosum . it 's true , that by the statute h. . c. . meer doctors of law are made capable of exercising all manner of ecclesiastical iurisdiction . but it doth not assign the extent of their jurisdiction ; but leaves it to the bishops themselves , from whom their authority is derived . and the law still distinguishes between potestas ordinaria and delegata : for the former supposes a person to act in his own right and not by deputation ; which , i suppose , no chancellors or officials will pretend to . but how far now , a commission to exercise jurisdiction doth hold , when the person who gave it is dead , is not my present business to enquire : but in sutton's case , it seems to be taken for granted by the counsel , that a chancellor's patent , confirmed by dean and chapter , doth give a man a freehold for life , if he be capable of doing his duty ; otherwise he may be deprived for insufficiency , as doctor sutton was . but noy saith , that the court was in doubt , how far the act of the predecessor could bind the successor as to the profits . and in the prebend of hatcherlies case , dodderidge declared , that ecclesiastical iurisdiction in iudicial acts may be executed by substitute : but a grant of it is not good , but during the bishop's life ; and shall not bind the successor . and coke thought it a very hard thing , that the successor should not remove him ; but be bound to answer for the acts and offences of a commissary , which he never put-in . but these things belong not to our present business , any farther than to shew , that however in some cases the bishops may substitute others ; yet as to resignations of benefices , for all that i can find , the law only takes notice of the bishop himself . lyndwood observes , that there is a difference to be made between the resignation of a simple benefice , i. e. where there is no cure of souls ; and of such a one that hath such a cure going along with it . in the former case he saith , that a resignation may be to the prejudice of the party , without the bishop's consent : but in the latter , where it may be to the prejudice of others as well as of himself , it hath no force without the bishop's ratification : in hoc casu necessaria est ratihabitio episcopi . so that no resignation of a cure of souls can be of any validity without the bishop's acceptance . in the case of smith against foanes , it was resolved and agreed by all upon evidence at bar , that a resignation to a proctor , does not make the church void , until it be accepted by the bishop , and acknowledged before him . . but suppose the resignation be made into the hands of the bishop , is he bound to accept it ? by what law ? for what reason ? must he not enquire into the reason and inducements of the resignation , whether it be corrupt or not ? no bishop can be bound to accept a corrupt resignation ; and whether it be so or not , he is bound to enquire : and if he be not satisfied ; by what law can he be required to do that , which he cannot do with a good conscience ? if the law hath trusted him with accepting a resignation ; it hath likewise trusted him with judging , whether it be fit to be accepted or not . in gayton's case it is plain , that the bishop may refuse a resignation before a publick notary , when there was a condition annexed to it , which the law doth not annex . for in this case , the condition was , that if such or such a person were not presented within six months , the resignation should be null : which coke then said , made it void , because resignations ought to be free : and this is a judicial act , to which a condition cannot be annexed , no more than an ordinary may admit upon condition . but it may be objected , that in case of donatives the resignation must be into the patrons hands , as in gays and fairchild's case : why then may not a resignation be good to a patron in other benefices , since those are as really benefices as the other ? the difference is , that there is no presentation to the bishop in donatives . for , it is agreed by the judges in that case , that if there were a presentation once made to the bishop , it ceases to be a donative , and becomes always presentable . so that the case of donatives is very different ; for we say , that wherever the bishop hath a right to admit , it is his right to accept of a resignation . but in this case , the bishop is supposed to have nothing to do in the admission or institution of the person . if it be asked , how the bishops came to lose their right of receiving the presentation to these benefices ? i answer , that they seem to me to have come one of these two ways : . by royal licence : so my lord coke saith , that the king may not only found a church , or free chapel donative himself ; but may license any subject to do the same . but the register supposes a royal foundation , and not a meer royal licence ; and that it must be proved to be ancient too : and therefore a new licence will not come up to the register . . by peculiar privilege . as when a lord of a manor in a great parish , having his tenants about him at a remote distance from the parish-church , offers to build and endow a church there ; provided that it should belong entirely to him and his family , to put in such persons as they should think fit , if they were in holy orders . it 's very possible , that the bishops at that time , to encourage such a work , might permit them to enjoy this liberty ; which being continued time out of mind , is turned into a prescription . if these donatives had been common , the mischief would have been more visible : but being so few in comparison , they have been less taken notice of . and they are to be distinguished from those called sine-cures and exempt iurisdictions . for sine-cures in truth , are benefices presentable ; but by means of vicarages endowed in the same places , the persons who enjoy them , have by long custom been excused from residence ; which is the most can be said for them . and such sine-cures , if they be resigned , it must be into the bishop's hands . exempt iurisdictions are not so called , because under no ordinary ; but because they are not under the ordinary of the diocese , but have one of their own . these are therefore called peculiars ; and they are of several sorts : . royal peculiars : which are the king 's free chapels , and are exempt from any jurisdiction but the king 's ; and therefore such may be resigned into the king's hands as their proper ordinary ; either by ancient privilege , or inherent right . but how far resignations may be made to the king as supreme ordinary , as in goodman's case , it is not here a place to examine . . archbishops peculiars : which are not only in the neighbour . dioceses , but dispersed up and down in remoter places : for it appears by eadmerus , that wherever the archbishop had an estate belonging to him , he had the sole iurisdiction as ordinary . . deans and chapters peculiars : which are places wherein by ancient compositions the bishops have parted with their iurisdiction as ordinaries , to those societies ; whose right was not original , but derived from the bishop ; and where the compositions are lost , it depends upon prescription ; as in the deans and chapters of st. pauls , and litchfield , which are mentioned in the books , h. . . . peculiars belonging to monasteries . for , the richer monasteries were very uneasy , until they had obtained either from the bishops , or from the popes ( which proved the most effectual , but more chargeable way ) an exemption from ordinary jurisdiction . those churches , which the monasteries had gotten to be annexed to themselves , were called appropriations : but how far these were exempt from the ordinaries jurisdiction , is not fully understood ; and therefore i shall endeavour to explain it . . appropriations did not at first imply any exemption from the ordinary . for it was expresly provided in the canon law , that no persons should be put into such churches without institution from the bishop : to whom the incumbents were to be answerable in all spiritual matters ; as in all temporal , to the abbots . and in the oldest appropriations , which i have seen , there is a salvo per omnia iure episcopali : which words are inconsistent with an exemption . . the forms of appropriation were different afterwards . for although none could be made without the bishop's consent , yet that consent was expressed in different ways , and had different effects . if the bishop only confirmed the lay-patron's gift , then nothing but the right of patronage passed , and his jurisdiction remained . if the bishop joyned in the donation in these words , concedimus vobis talem ecclesiam ; then he passed away his temporal rights , as to that church . if the bishop granted the church pleno jure ; then the canonists say , he passed his diocesan right : which consisted in rights which the bishop had distinct from his episcopal iurisdiction : which it was thought he could not part with by any act of his ; for that were to devest himself of his order . . appropriations , confirmed by the papal authority , were allow'd to carry with them exemptions from the ordinary . and therefore the monasteries which could bear the charge , did not think themselves free from their ordinaries , till they had obtained bulls for that purpose : and then they took themselves to be free in their conventual churches , as well as their chapels , or oratories on their own lands . . all papal exemptions are taken away by act of parliament , h. . c. . and the churches so exempted are put under the iurisdiction of the ordinary of the diocese ; or such commissioners as the king shall appoint . so that no papal exemption can now be pleaded , as to appropriated churches ; how clear and full soever the charters of exemption were . this is a thing so little taken notice of , that i shall set down the words , sect. . be it further enacted , that such of the said monasteries &c. and all churches and chapels , to them , or any of them belonging ; which before the dissolution &c. were exempted from the visitation or visitations , and all other iurisdiction of the ordinary or ordinaries , within whose diocese they were situate or set , shall from thenceforth be within the iurisdiction and visitation of the ordinary or ordinaries , within whose diocese they or any of them be situate and set ; or within the visitation and iurisdiction of such person or persons , as by the king's highness shall be limited or appointed ; this act , or any other exemption , liberty or iurisdiction , to the contrary notwithstanding . therefore no persons who enjoy the estates belonging to monasteries , can now plead an exemption by virtue thereof from the ordinaries iurisdiction ; nor that they have a power to put-in and put-out as they please , without any regard to the bishop's authority . but suppose there were no endowment , and that the churches were built on the site of the monasteries , and so were supplied by their own body ; then such persons are wholly at their will , and they may turn them out as they please . i answer ; i confess the condition of such stipendiaries , is as bad as of those who hold their benefices under bonds of resignation . for tenures at the will of the lord are the worst of any . but it is to be hoped , that such persons who enjoy such estates as were originally designed for the support of the parochial clergy , ( however at first fraudulently perverted by the combination of the monks and popes ) will at the least take care that the cure of souls be duely provided for in such places . for that burthen goes along with the churches revenue in whose hands soever it be : and so they are both in law and conscience to see the places well supplied . and by the statutes of dissolution , as they do enjoy the rights , so they are bound to provide for the churches : and where they were parochial , to see that there were a fixed incumbent with a competent maintenance ; which the law always took a particular care of . ii. it is time now to consider the precedents , which have been produced to shew , that these bonds of resignation are not against law. the first is of iones and laurence , iac. a bond was given to resign the benefice he was presented to , within three months upon request : and it was alledged in court , that it was a simoniacal contract , and against law. on the other side it was said , that there doth not appear any simony upon the condition : and therefore iudgment was given for the bond. but a writ of error was brought in the exchequer chamber : and the principal error insisted on was , that this condition was against law. but the judges of the common bench and barons of the exchequer held , that the obligation and condition are good enough . for a man may bind himself to resign upon good and valuable reasons , without any colour of simony : as to be obliged to resign , in case of plurality or non-residence ; or if his son be at age. but if it had been for a lease of the glebe , or tythes , or a summ of money ; that had been simony &c. and so the judgment was affirmed . to this precedent , i answer , that the reason of the judges is insufficient . for it comes to this : the bond is good because there may be good reason for it . may it not be said on the other side , the bond is naught , because there may be a very bad reason for it ? and a bond that may be turned to so very ill uses , it cannot but seem strange to me , that the judges should affirm it to be a good bond. if the particular reasons had been made the conditions of the bond , they might have judged upon them : but the bond was general , and no condition in it but notice . therefore their judgment must be , that a bond is reasonable , if no bad condition appears in it : which makes the incumbent a slave to the patron , and overthrows the just rights and liberties of the clergy ; and lays them open to perjury , when they give such a bond meerly to obtain a presentation . and they very well knew that none could be possessed of a benefice without an oath against all simoniacal contracts , either directly or indirectly . why did not the judges declare , that it was simony within their oath ? but they were onely to judge of the law. and how could they judge this not to be a simoniacal bargain ? because there was no simoniacal condition in it . but what is a simoniacal condition ? where hath the common law determin'd it ? and by what rule ? yes , say they , a lease for tythes , or a bargain for money , had been simony . but how come they to determine that no other contracts are simoniacal ; when they own , that simony is not under their cognisance ? did they ever offer to advise with the civilians , what was a simoniacal contract , according to the ecclesiastical law ? not the least mention of this : and therefore i cannot but think this a judgment without sufficient reason to support it . the same cause came on again the next year : and there it is declared , that it was not simony , but good policy to tie him to resign ; and if it were , it is not material . here are two good points declared : . that bonds of resignation are good policy . to what end ? to insnare mens consciences ; to make the church a prey to corrupt patrons ; to keep men from doing their duties , lest they should displease their patrons . if this be good policy , let it rather pass for that , than for good law. . that it is not material as to the goodness of the bond , whether it be simony or not . then it seems a simoniacal contract holds good in law : which i think was no good policy for judges to declare . but we are told , that iac. in the case of paschal and clerk , it was said by the court upon evidence , that if the patron takes a bond of resignation at three months warning , it was simony within the statute . and for this we are referr'd to the roll , . i wonder this judgment is not hitherto disproved , if the roll be falsified : and if not , here is judgment against judgment . but again , in the case of babington and wood , it was resolved on the same grounds with that of iones and laurence , and so deserves no new consideration : and several other judgments are said to have been given since on the same grounds . but let us compare this case with such as have been adjudged to be simony in the courts of common law. in the case of byrte and manning , the court held , that if a man entred into a contract to procure a presentation in consideration of the marriage of his son , that had been a simoniacal contract . why is not a bond of resignation , as much simony , as a consideration of marriage ; when both are made equally the conditions of obtaining a presentation ? if a simoniacal contract be made , and the person presented not at all privy to it , he is to incurr the penalty of it : but if a man be privy to a bond of resignation in order to a presentation , he shall not be guilty . and yet in the one case , a man swears with a good conscience : which i think he cannot in the other . in the case of winchcomb and pulleston , it was declared to be simony , to purchase the next presentation , when the incumbent was still alive , but in a fit of the strangury . and yet this was not within the letter of the law : for the living was not actually void . therefore such acts , as are against the design and reason of the law , are forbidden by it . and the like was affirmed by iustice hutton in the case of sheldon and bret. in a late judgment in chancery , bonds of resignation at pleasure to patrons by their clerks , are damned in equity , when any ill use is made of them . but why should any such bonds be allowed in law , which are liable to such ill uses ? i conclude with the words of my lord coke , that the common law doth detest simony , and all corrupt bargains for presentation to any benefice : and its design is , that a fit person for the discharge of the cure should be presented freely without expectation of any thing . how then can bonds of resignation be agreeable to law ? having thus dispatched the main point against all general bonds , which are made the conditions of obtaining a presentation ; there remain only some quaere's to be resolved . ( . ) suppose a bond be required onely to tie men up to do their duties , and to keep them from non-residence . i answer , ( . ) that the patron is to blame to pitch upon a person to discharge such a cure , of whom at the same time he discovers such a mistrust , as to need a bond to make him do his duty . and if a man makes no conscience of his duty without a bond , i doubt he will make very little with it . if he could make him a good man by his bond , it were of great use ; but if he be not , he may do the more mischief by continuing in his place by the force of a bond. so that i look on such bonds , as apt to raise scruples in good mens minds ; and to do no good upon bad ones . . that all wise and good patrons will consider the general mischief , more than a particular inconvenience . and what greater mischief can come to our church , than to have bonds of resignation brought into request ? for , besides corrupt patrons as to bargains ; what advantage will corrupt patrons as to religion make of it ? who by that means will be able to turn out the incumbents upon notice given , when opportunity serves them : as is before observ'd in the preface . ( . ) suppose it be a very equitable case , as for a minor ; is a bond of resignation unlawfull ? i answer , that there may be a lawfull trust , in such a case i do not question : but whether the person who takes this trust , can enter into a bond , and take the oath , i very much question , upon the reasons already mention'd . for there may be a confidential simony , as the casuists call it : and the way to prevent it , is , say they , that the trust be sine pretii , pacti , modi , vel conditionis interventu . for the taking of a bond argues a mistrust ; and is therefore contrary to the nature of a trust. ( . ) suppose the bishop himself requires a bond of resignation , as to a prebend of his church , if the prebendary quit the diocese ; is such a bond justifiable , or not ? the bishop , is no doubt , bound to take all possible care of the good of his diocese , and to make his preferments serviceable to that end. but if a man knows before-hand , that without this condition he cannot obtain it , and with it he may , he runs into a snare by giving a bond for that end ; and after , taking the oath against any simoniacal contract , directly or indirectly . i do think these bonds of so bad a nature and tendency , that i do wish , that no countenance or incouragement be given to them : especially by such , whose example may encourage others , to do that for bad designs , which they do for good. and wise and good men will always shew the greatest regard to that , which serves the most publick interest , and prevents the most growing mischief . ( . ) suppose the incumbent of a living makes an agreement with another clergy man , that he shall have a lease of his benefice from three years to three years ; upon which he takes a summ of money , and gives a bond of resignation before harvest , and is to procure a presentation from the patron : is this simony or not , by our law ? here the patron is onely supposed barely to know and to consent , ( which is hardly to be supposed in such kind of cases ) and that the terms are onely between the two parties , ( for i will not suppose the bishop accessary to such bargains ) the question is , whether the incumbent can with a safe conscience part with his benefice on such terms ? and whether the other can give a valuable consideration for his interest in it , if the patron consents ? i answer , that the law is as express against corrupt resignations , as against corrupt bargains for a presentation ; onely the penalty is not so great . the words of the act are , that if any incumbent of any benefice with cure of souls , shall corruptly resign or exchange the same , or corruptly take for , or in respect of the resigning or exchanging of the same directly or indirectly , any pension or summ of money or benefit whatsoever ; that then as well the giver as the taker &c. shall lose double the value of the money so given , and double the value of one years profit . eliz. c. . it may possibly be said , that this is a distinct clause from the other , and hath another kind of penalty ; and so cannot reach persons in point of conscience as the other doth . but this is a strange way of dealing with laws . for there is the same penalty in the former clause ; onely there is added a present avoidence , and a disability in law : supposing these two left out , the one stands upon the same foot with the other . and i would know , whether if these were gone , they could not as well make a bargain for a presentation , as for such a resignation ? and is there nothing of conscience , or honour , or a regard to the dignity of the sacred function in the case ? no reverence to laws made on purpose to deter men from such fordid practises ? is a benefice to be look'd on as a meer livelyhood , to be bought and sold as other estates are ? is there no sense of any spiritual imployment going along with it ? no regard to the charge and trust that attends it ? if nothing of a spiritual nature is to be consider'd in a benefice , then there can be no such thing as simony : and then their hearts are at ease , and they may publish papers for presentations , as well as for resignation of incumbents . but i will not suppose such hard things of persons , who pretend to be in holy orders : but this i must put them in mind of ; that there is an oath to be taken , and a very strict one , against all simoniacal contracts , either directly or indirectly . and is wilfull perjury a thing to be slighted by any ? especially by churchmen , and in order to a cure of souls ? i have already mention'd my lord coke's saying , that simony is the more odious , because it is ever accompanied with perjury ; for the presentee is sworn to commit no simony : and for this he referrs to lyndwood . and i have already shew'd , how simony is to be understood according to him . if a solemn oath comes to be slighted and made little or nothing of ; how can such men pretend to religion or conscience ? but it may be said , that simony is to be determined by the law ; and the law makes a bargain with the patron to be simony , and not with the incumbent . i have said enough already to shew , that the statute doth not determine what simony is , but only inflicts a severe penalty on some sorts of it : and therefore it may be simony , although not expresly against the words of the law. but the words of the law are express against corrupt resignations : and i would fain know , whether a resignation for money be not a corrupt resignation ? and supposing the patron innocent , can any man of common sense or honesty take the oath , who comes in upon such terms , that he hath made no simoniacal contract or promise , to any person or persons whatsoever , concerning the procuring or obtaining the rectory or vicarage &c. is not this bargain in order to the procuring or obtaining the presentation ? let it be with whom it will , if it be for this end , it is simoniacal ; or else it will be hard to determine what simony is . and as to such kind of bonds of resignation between parties , without the patron 's privity ; how can they signify any thing , if the bishop do not accept the resignation ? which i have shewed before must be into his hands . but these men seem to set the bishop quite aside ; or to suppose him very weak and inconsiderate . all they look at , is the point of law : and they may say , they have advised with council ; and they have told them , that there is nothing against law in this practise . how ? not against law ? did they ask them , whether this were not a corrupt resignation within the statute ? no ; but whether it were simony or not ? i hardly suppose any man that understands what simony is by our law , would go so far : but they might say , it doth not void the living , nor bring a disability on the person ; and so far they said as the statute doth . but is this all , which men of conscience , and who take the care of souls , are to enquire after ? what! nothing but whether the benefice will be void or not ? or , whether the king may present or not ? are these all the considerations , even of clergymen , in such cases ? such kind of practises , which savour only of this world , are those which give such advantages against our profession , in such an age of infidelity as ours . do not you see , say they , that they mind nothing but their bare interest as to this world , and have no regard to law or conscience , where they contradict it ? i am sensible , how unreasonable it is , to charge a profession with the faults of a few ; and those in comparison , i hope , not considerable in it . but we ought , if possible , to avoid any scandal of this kind ; for it strikes at the whole body of the clergy of our church , and at religion it self : which if we have any our selves , we shall be very tender of the honour of . some men have a mighty prejudice against any churchmen medling in secular affairs ; although they be matters of justice and mercy , which the law of the land calls them to : but my great prejudice is against such churchmen , who bring secular ways of trafficking into church-matters ; as though nothing were really minded , but buying , and selling , and getting gain . advancing of trade is a noble design in a nation ; and that which makes it considerable at home and abroad : but god forbid , that such a way of trading should ever be brought into the church , or be suffer'd to go unpunished in it : for it will certainly ruine the best church in the world ; by lessening the reputation of churchmen ; by taking off the good affections of the people ; and making them to run into factions and infidelity . there is certainly something more to be regarded in these things besides our own interest : there is that of religion , of our church , and of the laws of the land ; which ought to overrule it . suppose there were nothing but the bare law in the case , which expresly forbids all corrupt resignations ; is it not fit for those who are to preach obedience to laws , to observe them , in what relates to themselves ? ought they not to be examples to others , in every thing of good report ? and to abstain from whatever tends to take off from the influence of their doctrine upon the people ? and nothing doth it more , than when they are suspected to come among them by unlawful and indirect means . i have taken the liberty in this discourse , to speak my mind freely about matters , which touch upon law and conscience ; the duties of patrons and incumbents : but i have done it , without any other design , than of doing some good , or at least preventing some mischief to the church i live in , and which i have a true and a just value for . if i had not thought , that this kind of simoniacal contracts were a great and growing mischief ; and had not had too much reason to think so ; i should have spared my pains , as others have done : for i do not love to be uneasy to my self or others . i know very well , how ill such discourses are apt to be taken by all that are concerned in them ; viz. patrons , incumbents , and all such lawyers that go about to defend them . but before i conclude this discourse , i must request some things of all these : and then let them judge as they please ; so it be without prejudice and partiality . . that patrons would consider , that the right of patronage is a trust committed to them ; of which they must give an account to god : for there is an obligation in point of conscience , going along with it . it is hard to believe what is commonly reported , how slight many great patrons make of their bestowing of benefices , by letting servants make their best advantage of them ; who scandalously expose the livings , and themselves , and the honour of those they depend upon . if servants deserve to be gratified ; for god's sake , let it not be at the price of souls . if there were no such thing as religion ; but that the pretended care of souls is nothing but an artificial way of maintaining a sert of men , to keep the people in a little better order , by telling them of moral duties , and another world ; then there were some colour for such an affected negligence in these matters : but i do not believe that any of these persons can satisfy themselves in such absurd and unreasonable imaginations ; against the sense of all the wiser and more considerate part of mankind . but it cannot be denied , that the things which they are to teach the people in point of morality , are very good things , and necessary to be told them . this is all i desire at present . and is it of no consequence , what sort of men those are , who are entrusted with the teaching people their duties to god and man ? if religion were only to be regarded in point of policy ; those must be far from politicians , who have no regard to the qualifications of the persons they put into such places . for ignorant and illiterate men can never give them good instructions ; scandalous and debauched persons will certainly do abundance of mischief , making the people more loose and debauched than otherwise they would be . men of ill principles will instill them into the heads of the busy part of those they converse among , and take upon them to guide ; and make them far more ungovernable than otherwise they would be . i have no very great opinion of the world as it is ; but i cannot but think , that it would be yet much worse , if an ignorant , vicious , turbulent , seditious clergy were put into all such places as patrons dispose of : and they know not , but they may be all such whom they present , if they take no more care about them ; but suffer their servants to make what bargains they think fit ; who mind not the men , but the advantage they are to get by them . and there is a just presumption , that those are not very deserving , who are ready to drive such bargains for themselves : and such men are not to be valued , as cattle in a market , by the money they will yield . . that lawyers would not encourage their clients in indirect methods of obtaining presentations . for here lies a great part of our present mischief : the clergymen who want benefices , they say ; we are ignorant of the law ; but we go to those whose business it is to understand it : and they tell us , they have cases and precedents in their books , for such bonds ; and they have been many times adjudged in the courts of law to be good ; and therefore why are we to blame if we submit to them ? but here lies the great mistake : the point is really a point of conscience as to the oath ; but the question put to them can be only a point of law ; who are to give judgment upon the statute , and according to the rules of judgment allowed in their courts . but i cannot but observe , that there is no precedent offer'd before iac. . and in the th . was a contrary judgment . in the beginning of charles i. the former judgment was affirmed ; and from hence it hath come to be such a prevailing opinion . i confess , that i am not satisfied , how far such precedents , or one or two judicial sentences make a thing to pass for law ; nor whether the authority of such a sentence , or the reason , is to give the force of law to it . i observe that my lord coke , when he speaks of the laws of england ; he reckons up common-law , statute-law , customs reasonable &c. but he never mentions the judgment of the courts , as any part of our law ; they being no more but a declaratory sentence of the majority of the judges , when it may be the other differ upon better reasons ; and when such reasons come to be thought better by one more at another time , then the contrary must pass for law on the same grounds . how often do we hear that the judges were divided in their opinions in point of law ? how often , that the greater number went one way , but law and reason on the other ? suppose a lord chief justice of great skill and knowledge in the law , to be unequally yoked with others of far less judgment ; how is it possible to prevent that judgment shall not be given on the wrong side , if the three happen to be of an opinion against him ; or one be absent , and two be against one ? in a late great cause , viz. of commendam ; although three judges concurred in opinion , and the general practise was allowed to be of that side ; yet because one judge differ'd from the rest , his authority was produced against the sentence of the court : and for what cause can this be , but the supposition , that it is not the sentence , but the reason which makes the law. my lord chief justice hales in a ms. discourse of the history and analysis of the laws of england , chap. . makes three constituents of the common law of england : . the common usage and custom : . the authority of parliament : . the iudicial decisions of courts of iustice : but how ? consonant to one another in the series and succession of time. this is spoken with great judgment : for , no doubt , a mighty regard ought to be shewed to a concurrent sense of so many persons of ability in the law , in the different times wherein such matters have been before them ; and this is the highest authority for expounding the law ; but it cannot amount to the making of a law. for , as the same excellent person adds ; it is true , the decisions of courts of iustice , although by the strength of the law of this kingdom , they do bind as a law between the parties to it in that particular case in question , till reversed by error or attaint ; yet they do not make a law : for that only the king , by the assent of parliament , can do . all that i aim at , is not in the least to take off from the authority and reverence due to judicial decisions , built upon a general agreement from time to time ; or upon evident reason in point of law : but only that things should not be so positively asserted to be law , which are built only on a few modern precedents , without any convincing evidence . which i take to be the present case . . that the clergy would mind their own honour and interest , and that of the church and religion so much , as not to accept of benefices upon such ensnaring terms , as those of bonds of resignation . if what i have said on this argument be true ; i am sure they have all the reason in the world to refuse them : when they know not what the consequence of them may be ; and they do know what kind of oath they are to take . and no man can honestly take an oath , that is not satisfied , that such bonds are no simoniacal contract in the sense of that law , by which he is required to take the oath . now the oath is not imposed by the courts of common law in pursuance of the statute ; for then it were to be understood according to the sense and meaning of it ; but that very statute leaves the ecclesiastical laws as they were ; by which simony is of a larger extent than it is understood at common law ; and by those laws this oath is required . therefore my request is to all such clergymen , as are in danger of having such put upon them ; that they would study the case , and satisfy their minds before they venture upon taking an oath ; which may afterwards rob them of that peace and tranquillity of mind , which every good man will esteem above any benefice in the world. finis . page . lin . . for gays read gayr . ibid. marg. for mar. read moor. a catalogue of books published by the right reverend father in god edward lord bishop of worcester , and sold by henry mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . a rational account of the grounds of protestant religion ; being a vindication of the lord archbishop of canterbury's relation of a conference , &c. from the pretended answer of t. c. wherein the true grounds of faith are cleared , and the false discovered ; the church of england vindicated from the imputation of schism , and the most important particular controversies between us and those of the church of rome throughly examined : the second edition . folio . sermons preached upon several occasions , with a discourse annexed concerning the true reasons of the sufferings of christ , wherein crellius his answer to grotius is considered . folio . origines britannicae , or the antiquities of the british churches , with a preface concerning some pretended antiquities relating to britain , in vindication of the bishop of st. asaph . folio . irenicum , a weapon salve for the churches wounds . quarto . origines sacrae , or a rational account of the grounds of christian faith , as to the truth and divine authority of the scriptures and the matters therein contained . quarto . the unreasonableness of separation , or an impartial account of the history , nature and pleas of the present separation from the communion of the church of england ; to which several late letters are annexed of eminent protestant divines abroad concerning the nature of our differences , and the way to compose them . quarto . a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it , in answer to some papers of a revolted protestant , wherein a particular account is given of the fanaticism and divisions of that church . octavo . an answer to several late treatises occasioned by a book entituled , a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it ; part i. octavo . a second discourse in vindication of the protestant grounds of faith , against the pretence of infallibility in the roman church , in answer to the guide in controversie , by r. h. protestancy without principles , and reason , and religion ; or the certain rule of faith , by e. w. with a particular enquiry into the miracles of the rom. church . octa. an answer to mr. cressy's epistle apologetical to a person of honour , touching his vindication of dr. stillingfleet . octavo . a defence of the discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , in answer to a book entituled catholicks no idolaters : octavo . several conferences between a romish priest , a fanatick chaplain , and a divine of the church of england ; being a full answer to the late dialogues of t. g. octavo . the grand question concerning the bishops right to vote in parliament in cases capital stated and argued , from the parliament rolls and the history of former times ; with an enquiry into their peerage , and the three estates in parliament . octavo . the bishop of worcester's charge to the clergy of his diocese , in his primary visitation begun at worcester , sept. . . a discourse concerning the illegality of the ecclesiastical commission , in answer to the vindication and defence of it : wherein the true notion of the legal supremacy is cleared ; and an account is given of the nature , original and mischief of the dispensing power . the council of trent examin'd and disprov'd by catholick tradition , in the main points in controversie between us and the church of rome ; with a particular . account of the times and occasions of introducing them . twenty sermons preached upon several occasions , not yet collected into a volume . quarto . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e . inst. . notes for div a -e cr. car. . . inst. . marg. f. . hob. f. . cr. car. . sylvestr . v. simon . sigon . de judic . l. . c. . quintil. l. . v. ciceron . ●ro plancio . dion . l. . lamprid. in alex. sever. arist. pol. l. . c. . ● . inst. . b. . inst. . noy . c. de jurejur . present . stat . lyndw. f. . . inst. . bract. l. . . ext. de jure patron . c. . fleta l. . c. . selden of tythes , c. . . abridgment . . ext. de officio jud. ordin . c. . eugen. . in synod . rom. c. . leo . in synod . rom. c. . ed. holst . registr . f. . cust. norm . art. . pelm. conil . matt. paris . a. d. . p. . innocent epist . l. . selden of tythes . ● . . . . ● . . inst. . r. . anders . . leon. . . novel . . ●it . . c. . . c. . cap. l. . c. . l. . . addit . . . ext. de jure patr. c. . rebuff . de nomin . n. . fra. de roye de jure patron . proleg . c. . hob. . de roye de jure patr. p. . . dr. & stud. c. . . hob. . brownl . . . dr. & stud. . plowd . com. . b. . inst. . glanvil l. . c. . . inst. . b. . inst. . v. flamin . paris . de resignat . l. . c. . n. . lyndw. f. . c. ne lepra . . de appel . c. roman . lyndw. f. . r. . de testam . v. stat. v. approbat . . de ossicio vicarii c. . de sequestr . v. officiales . bracton l. . c. . fleta l. . c. . . inst. . cowel . v. ordin . cr. car. . noy . . noy . ●wen . yelvert . mar. . cr. . . . inst. . inst. . registr . . . ●ynd . f. . ●olls abrid . . ●oke . , 〈◊〉 . eadm . hist. in anselm . p. . rolls abrid . . . c. . q. . c. ●ane . ext. de donat . c. pastor lyndw. f. cr. . . cr. . . ●oy ● . ● . car. . ●utton . ●nes . ●eble . . cr. car. ● ▪ cr. eliz. c. . . cr. . . noy . bulstrod . . . hob. . wynch . rep. chancery . . . inst. . b. navarr . man. c. . n. . . inst. . . inst. . . b. . b. a sermon preach'd before the king, feb. , / by ed. stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preach'd before the king, feb. , / by ed. stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed by rob. white for hen. mortlock ..., london : . marginal notes. reproduction of original in duke university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t. -- hebrews iii, -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - ali jakobson sampled and proofread - ali jakobson text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preach'd before the king feb. . / . by ed. stillingfleet d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . printed by his majesties special command . london , printed by rob. white , for hen. mortlock at the phoenix in s t. paul's church-yard , and at the white hart in westminster hall. . heb. iii. . — lest any of you be hardned through the deceitfulness of sin . when the iewish christians had formed themselves into an established church , and were become considerable for their number as well as for their zeal and devotion , their obstinate brethren thought it high time for their own security , at least to weaken and divide them , if they could not wholly suppress and destroy them . for this end , they made use of different instruments and means , according to the different seasons , and dispositions of men . sometimes , when they had any encouragement , or connivence from the roman power , they set upon them with rage and fury , spoiling their goods , and threatning their lives : but this hard usage did only heighten the courage , and unite the affections of the more zealous christians . sometimes , they suggested to them the mighty veneration , which their whole nation alwayes had for moses and the law , and what an infinite scandal and dishonour it would be to them all , to have that law , which was delivered by angels , confirmed by miracles , established by prophets , admired by the gentiles , and had continued among them for so many ages , now of a sudden to be laid aside for the sake of a new institution , that expressed no more regard to them than to any other nation in the world. and so great was the love which the iews had to their own countrey and religion , such an opinion was generally received among them of the peculiar favour of god towards them , that they who could not be shocked by persecution , were in danger of being overcome by flattery . from hence the author of this epistle make it his business to shew the excellency of christ above moses , and of his institution above that of the law , in respect of the priesthood and sacrifices , and the benefits which come by them ; and that although this new and living way were but lately discovered , yet it was that which was alwayes designed by god , foreseen by the patriarchs , foretold by the prophets , and longed for by good men as the consolution of israel : and it could be no more disparagement to moses and the prophets to yield to the glories of the kingdom of the messias , than it is to the stars not to be seen when the light of the sun appears . but besides these , there were some among them capable of being wrought upon by other kind of arguments , such i mean , who out of a sudden transport of zeal , and being convinced by the miraculous operations of the holy ghost , had declared themselves christians , but yet retained a secret love to their sins , and the pleasures of this world : these were the persons whom the apostle , not without reason , expresses the greatest jealousie of , as in danger of apostasie : and therefore in many places of this epistle , he represents to them the dreadful consequences of such an apostasie , for it was no less than crucifying the son of god afresh and putting him to an open shame ; it was counting the blood of the covenant wherewith they were sanctified an unholy thing , and doing despight unto the spirit of grace ; nay it was not only crucifying , but treading under foot the son of god ; and therefore he bids them consider , what punishment such persons would deserve at the hands of god into which they must fall , and what hopes there could be of pardon for those who so openly rejected the only means of obtaining it ; for if they did herein sin wilfully after they had received the knowledge of the truth , there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin , but a certain fearful looking for of judgement , and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries . but he not only sets before them the sad effects of apostasie , but as one that loved their souls , and designed to prevent their ruine , he gives them the best advice and counsel against it : he knew well enough , it was not the dissatisfaction of mens reason , which was the ground of their infidelity : but , as mens more open designs are governed by such springs which are least discovered ; so , whatever these warping christians might pretend , as to zeal for the law , and their ancient religion , the bottom of all was a principle of infidelity , not arising from want of sufficient reason to convince them , but from a close and secret love of sin which made them willing to quarrel with what ever was so repugnant to it , as the doctrine of christ. to this end , he puts them in mind of the case of their fore-fathers in the wilderness , who wanted no arguments to convince them of gods goodness and providence ; yet nothing would satisfie them , but they were still murmuring and complaining , till at last god sware in his wrath that they should not enter into his rest . and since you all acknowledge , they had reason enough to be satisfied , but out of an obstinate and stubborn humour hardned their hearts in the day of temptation in the wilderness ; take heed brethren , saith the apostle , lest there be in any of you such an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living god ; and do not look upon this advice as vain and needless to you that are called the believing iews , but you have cause to be very watchful over one another , especially in this tempting age , exhorting one another daily while it is called to day , lest any of you be hardned through the deceitfulness of sin . as though he had said to them , you who now glory in the name of believers , and are hitherto as forward as any in the profession of christianity , do not think your selves to be above the need of any helps to confirm your faith , and to arm you against the assaults of temptations , for your very security may betray you ; but consider the sin that doth so easily beset you on every side , the various artifices it makes use of to deceive men , and when it hath once gotten admission , how strangely it bewitches and infatuates the minds of men , how unwilling they are to be convinced of their sins , how much more unwilling to part with them , and how naturally the love of sin brings men to infidelity , and then you will see how great reason there is , why you should be exhorting one another daily while it is called to day , lest any of you be hardned through the deceitfulness of sin . in which words , are these three things considerable . . the danger they are in of being hardned through the deceitfulness of sin , who have the most powerful motives and engagements against it . . the manner whereby sin doth prevail upon men to harden them , through the deceitfulness of sin . . the care that all christians ought to have to prevent being hardned through the deceitfulness of sin : lest any of you , &c. . the danger men are in of being hardned through the deceitfulness of sin , though they have the most powerful motives and engagements against it . for never any persons had greater arguments against returning to the practice of sin , than these to whom this epistle was written . they had embraced among the first principles of the doctrine of christ , the foundation of repentance from dead works , and of faith towards god , of the doctrine of baptisms and of laying on of hands ( for the miraculous gifts of the holy ghost ) and of the resurrection of the dead and of eternal judgement . and what can we suppose to have greater force and efficacy to restrain men from sin , than what is contained in these fundamentals of christianity ? but we shall find that no motives have ever been great enough to restrain those from sin , who have secretly loved it , and only sought pretences for the practice of it . such is the frame and condition of humane nature considered in it self , so great are the advantages of reason and consideration for the government of our actions , so much stronger are the natural motives to vertue that to vice , that they who look no farther , would expect to find the world much better than it is . for why should we suppose the generality of mankind to betray so much folly , as to act unreasonably and against the common interest of their own kind ? as all those do , that yield to the temptations of sin : for if we set aside the consideration of a divine law , to sin is nothing else but to act foolishly and inconsiderately . but on the other side , if men first look into the practice of the world , and there observe the strange prevalency of vice , and how willing men are to defend as well as to commit it ; they would be apt to imagine that either there is no such thing as reason among men , or that it hath very little influence upon their actions ; and that the talk of vertue was first found out by some great enemy to the felicity of mankind . such different apprehensions would men have from the different wayes of beholding the picture of humane nature ; either as it is in its own frame , or as it is to be seen in the world. they who have with the greatest judgement and care searched into the nature and first principles of humane societies , have all agreed that the chief end and design of men in joyning together was , for the mutual benefit and advantage of each other ; and that in order to this , certain laws of iustice , equity , mercy , truth , gratitude , temperance , as well as of subjection to government , ought to be inviolably observed by men . and since these things have the universal consent of mankind to be for their general good , how comes it to pass , that men being joyned in these societies for such ends , make so little conscience of the practice of them ? how come so many to live , as it were , in open defiance to these fundamental laws of nature ? how come others , only to make use of the pretence of vertue to deceive , and of honesty and integrity to cover the deepest dissimulation ? if they be not good , why are they pretended ? if they are good , why are they not practised ? so that whether we consider mankind in it self , or in society ; we find the motives to vertue to be much more weighty , and considerable than those to sin ; and yet that the practice of men is directly contrary . but it may be said , that all this might happen in the world for want of wit and education to polish and improve the natural faculties of mens minds , and to direct and encourage the practice of vertue . i wish the world had not so many instances that men of the greatest wit have not been men of the best morals ; but if wit , and education , and philosophy had been the most effectual means to reclaim men from sin , where should we have looked more for the flourishing of vertue , than in greece and rome ? and yet in those times , when all the accomplishments of wit were at the highest in those places , the manners of men were sunk into the greatest filth of debauchery . it would make one astonished to read the admirable discourses of their philosophers , and to consider the strange height that eloquence and wit were arrived to among their orators and poets ; and then to compare the account given of the manners of the gentile world , not only by their own satyrists , but by the apostles in their several epistles : what a monstrous catalogue of sins do we meet with in the first chapter to the romans ? of sins of so deep a dye , and of so horrid a nature , and such an inventory of all sorts of wickedness , that one might imagine the apostle had been rather describing some vision of hell than the seat of the roman empire . to the same purpose he speaks of the corinthians and ephesians , who thought themselves behind none of the greeks of that age in the breeding then most in vogue ; but we need not instance in particulars , when s. peter calls it in general the will of the gentiles , to live in lasciviousness , lusts , excess of wine , revellings and banquetings , as well as abominable idolatries ; and s. iohn in short saith , the whole world lyeth in wickedness . it might be worth our while to consider how so universal a degeneracy of manners should happen in those ages , when men pretended more to wit and learning , than they had done in any time before . and for this , it were very unreasonable to assign any cause that were equally common to all other ages , such as the corruption of human nature ; which , how great soever it be , is the same at all times ; neither do i think it reasonable to lay it wholly on the bad examples of the teachers of vertue , knowing how malicious the worst of men are in endeavouring to make those who seem to be better , to be as bad as themselves : but there are some peculiar reasons for it , and i wish they had been only proper to those times : as , . separating religion and morality from each other . when their religion was placed in some solemn rites , and pompous ceremonies , and costly sacrifices ; but all the matters of morality were confined to their schools , there to be enquired after by those that had leisure and curiosity for them . as though god were more concerned for the colour , and age , and pomp of their sacrifices , for the gestures and shews of their devotion ; than for the purity of their hearts , the sincerity of their minds , or the holiness of their lives . when once the people had swallowed that pernicious principle , that morality was no part of their religion , they had no great regard to the good or evil of their actions , as long as a little charge , and four looks , and going to their temples at certain times were thought sufficient to expiate their sins . and they were much more encouraged in wickedness , when the gods they worshipped were represented on the stage as acting all manner of villanies : and no doubt , they thought it a great comfort to them in their debaucheries , that their gods were as good fellows as themselves . and what could all the precepts of philosophers , or sayings of wise men signifie to those who were so far from looking on vertue as any necessary part of their religion , that they thought those fit to be worshipped for gods , whom they never believed to have been good men ? . when they had thus rendred vertue unnecessary , by making it no part of their religion , the next thing was to make it appear ridiculous ; which was a certain way to make fools out of love with it ; who do not consider , what is fit to be laughed at , but what is so . when socrates at athens undertook with many sharp and cutting ironies to reprove the vices of his age ; and with a great deal of wit and reason to perswade men to the sober practice of vertue , the licentious people knew not what to do with him , for they were not able to withstand the force of his arguments ; at last aristophanes ( having a comical wit whereby he was able to make any thing seem ridiculous although he knew very well the wisdom and learning of socrates ; yet ) to please and humour the people , he brings him upon the stage , and represents his grave instructions after such a manner , as turn'd all into a matter of laughter to the people of athens : which did more mischief to the reputation of vertue among them , than the taking away his life did . for , his dying convinced the people he was in good earnest , and brought a great veneration to his memory ; whereas the other exposed him only to scorn and contempt ; and the people were made judges whether it were with cause or no : who besides their ignorance and want of judgement , were too much parties to be judges . this is the method which men take , when they set their wits against vertue and goodness ; they know it is impossible to argue men out of it ; but it is very easie by ridiculous postures , and mimical gestures , and profane similitudes , to put so grave and modest a thing as vertue is out of countenance , among those who are sure to laugh on the other side . i do not think such things can signifie any thing to wise men ; but when was the world made up of such ? and therefore it signifies very much to the mischief of those , who have not the courage to love despised vertue ; nor to defend a cause that is laughed down . and to these i may now add , . the bad examples of others , especially of those to whom it belonged to teach and encourage vertue , above others . no man will pretend , that it is ground enough for him to do a thing meerly because he sees another do it ; yet in all ages men have seen and complained that the power of examples hath outdone that of laws . some that think themselves more subtle than others , question whether those mean what they say , who speak one thing and do another ; and therefore they will do what they think the others mean ; which were a good plea if their actions were better than their words . others think , that all discourses of vertue , and honesty , and true honour , are meer matter of talk for men to entertain some idle hours with , and that men are universally agreed in nothing but in speaking well and doing ill . these look on vertue as a kind of phoenix , a thing often talked of , and believed by some , but never seen by any : but such find all things so very bad at home , that out of charity to themselves , they believe the whole world to be like them . others have so much natural modesty and sense of shame that they have not the courage to commit a great wickedness , unless they were hardned to it by the example of greater sinners before them . but the most common reason of the prevalency of example is , that men find in themselves a strong propensity and inclination to do evil , and are willing to meet with such a pretence for committing it , that they do but as others do ; and therefore i cannot think that bare example were enough to corrupt the world if there were not some antecedent inclination in humane nature to the practice of evil . for since there is less reason to follow bad examples than good , why should one prevail more than the other in the world , if there were nothing but the bare example to move ? but that inclination being considered , we may easily give an account of the ill consequence which the bad examples of those who are to direct and encourage others in vertue , must needs be of to the rest of mankind . xenophon was not without reason so much displeased , when he saw some of the best of socrates his disciples , make their court to dionysius in sicilie ; knowing how inconsistent the reputation of vertue is , with the very suspicion of flattery : and that nothing makes great men more suspicious of vertue , than when they see philosophers become flatterers , and carrying on the restless designs of ambition under the pretence of teaching the art of contentment to others . it was this which made the very name of them become so odious at rome , that even vertue it self was hated for their sakes : so that the very teachers of vertue contributed to the increase of vice . especially , when by their endless disputes & wranglings about words & terms of art , they made the people suspect they did but play prizes before them ; and only pretended to quarrel , but were well enough agreed to cheat and deceive them . upon such grounds as these , all the motives to vertue contained in the writings and instructions of philosophers lost their due force and efficacy on the minds of the people , who were rather more hardned in their sins by these disadvantages which attended the means that were used to reclaim them from the practice of them . but when all other motives proved ineffectual by these disadvantages , what could be more reasonably expected , than that the motives of the gospel should prevail with men , being of so great weight in themselves , and recommended with so much advantage to the world , by the examples of those who delivered them ? the great arguments of christianity against the practice of sin are not drawn from any uncertain topicks , or nice and curious speculations ; but from the influence mens good or evil actions in this world will have upon their happiness or misery in another . and what concerns another state is revealed with much more clearness , and confirmed by stronger evidence , and enforced by more moving considerations , than ever it was before among the best and wisest of the gentiles . the doctrine of christianity is plain and peremptory in this matter , that god will render to every man according to his works : and that the wrath of god is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men . and however prone men are to be deceived with vain words , yet let them look to themselves , god will not be mocked , ( however men may be ) for because of these things the wrath of god will come upon the children of disobedience . no sacrifices , no prayers , no penances , no vows and promises will keep off this wrath of god without a hearty repentance and timely reformation . never any religion or institution in the world made it so much its business to keep men from doing evil , and to perswade them to do good , as the christian doth . the apostles thought it the greatest contradiction to their profession , for any men to be called christians , and to live in the practice of their former sins , let the time past of your life suffice you , saith s. peter , to have wrought the will of the gentiles , i. e. that time past when you were no christians . to be a christian then was all one as of a loose , profane , dissolute person to become sober , religious , exact in his conversation to put on christ , was but another phrase , for making no provision for the flesh to fulfil the lusts thereof ; to learn christ , was all one as to put off as concerning the former conversation the old man , which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts ; and to put on the new man , which after god is created in righteousness and true holiness . those were the blessed dayes of christianity , when it was no hard matter to understand what it was to be a christian ; when the niceties of disputes , and the subtle artifices of men of corrupt minds had not yet debauched the notion of christianity , to reconcile it with the lusts of men . to be a christian then , was not to be versed in the subtilties of the schools ; or to be able to swallow contradictions without chewing them ; or to be as fierce and earnest for every doubtful opinion and uncertain custome , as if the substance of christianity were like epicurus his world made up of a great number of very small and restless atomes . to be a christian , was not to fight for the faith , but to live by it ; not to quarrel for good works , but to practise them ; in short , to be a christian was to depart from iniquity and to do good , to be meek , and humble , and patient , and peaceable towards all men ; to be charitable , and kind ; to be sober and temperate in all things , to be holy , sincere , and innocent in his actions towards god and men . this is the true idea of a christian , and not a meer idea ; but such as every one that owns himself to be a christian is bound by the most sacred vow of christianity in baptism to be like ; so that if either the consideration of their own eternal welfare , or the nature , design , or honour of christianity , or their own most solemn engagements can restrain men from the practice of sin , we see that those who are christians , are under the most powerful motives and engagements against it . but yet such there have been ( i wish i could not say such there are ) who have broken through all these things , and have been hardned through the deceitfulness of sin . one might have thought , if any persons had been out of this danger , they had been such as the apostle makes this exhortation to ; who had seen the miraculous operations of the holy ghost for confirming the doctrine and motives of christianity ; nay who had themselves been made partakers of the holy ghost , and had tasted of this heavenly gift , and of the good word of god , and of the powers of the world to come : who had testified their repentance for their former sins in the most publick and solemn manner , and had entred into the most sacred vow of baptism , never to return more to the practice of it : who had done this in the heat of persecution , which they endured with courage and rejoycing ; yet after all these things , the apostle expresses a more than ordinary jealousie lest any of them should fall away , and their hearts be hardned through the deceitfulness of sin . when critias and alcibiades had forsaken the paths of vertue , which they seemed very forward in , while they continued under the instructions of socrates , xenophon saith , there were some that contended that they never had any vertue at all , because those who once had it could never lose it : but for his part , he saith , he was by no means satisfied with their opinion : for as men by discontinuing bodily exercises make themselves uncapable of doing those things which they were most expert in before ; so men by the neglect of improving their minds in vertue ; and giving way to the temptations of honour and pleasure ( which was the case of critias and alcibiades ) may by degrees lose the force of all the motives to vertue and consequently the vertue it self . it is agreed by all men who understand any thing in these matters , that even grace , although it be the effect of a divine power on the minds of men , is of it self capable of being lost ; the great dispute is , whether it may be lost past all recovery ? but as we have no more reason to set any bounds to the grace of god in mens recovery , than as to their first repentance ; so we ought to consider , that there is such a falling away mentioned by the apostle , of those who have been once enlightned , of which , he saith , it is impossible to renew them again to repentance : and that scripture deals with all persons in its exhortations , and adomonitions , and threatnings , as if they were capable of falling to the utmost degree : and to suppose that thing impossible to be done , which the gravest counsels , and the most vehement perswasions are used to keep men from the doing of , is to make a severe reflection on the wisdom of them that give them . and the apostle here leaves none of them out ; but bids the most forward believers beware of an evil heart of unbelief ; and those who had been most softned by repentance , take heed of being hardned through the deceitfulness of sin . so that we see , how powerful soever the motives to vertue are ; how great soever the engagements against sin ; yet the apostle thought it needful to give them warning against the deceitfulness of sin . . but what kind of deceitfulness is this in sin , that the best and wisest men are so much caution'd against it ? what irresistible charms doth it use to draw men into its snares ? with what infusion doth it so far intoxicate mankind to make them dote upon it , against the convictions of reason , and dictates of conscience , and the power of perswasion , and the most solemn and repeated vows and promises against it ? nay to make men pursue it , to such a degree as rather to be damned for it than forsake it ? if we were to consider this only by reason , we could imagine nothing less than that sin at one time or other hath laid such a mighty obligation on mankind , that rather than part with it , the greater part of men , out of meer gratitude , would be content to suffer for ever with it : or , that it is a thing so absolutely necessary to the comfort of mens lives , that they cannot live one good day without it : whereas in truth , the whole race of mankind hath suffered extreamly and continually by it : and it is so far from being necessary to the comfort of mens lives , that the greatest troubles and vexations of life have risen from it ; and men may enjoy far greater satisfaction , and more real contentment ; and more noble , and solid , and lasting pleasures if they did utterly renounce and forsake it . but this still makes the difficulty so much the greater , how it should so far be witch and infatuate the far greatest part of mankind ; and of those who know how dearly they must suffer for it in another world ? and yet to assoil this difficulty , we have only two accounts to give how sin comes to deceive mankind so generally , so fatally ; and those are . by subtle insinuations ; . by false reasonings . . by subtle insinuations . the great masters of pleading in ancient times have told us , that there are some causes which are never to be managed by plain and downright reasonings , ( because they are too weak to bear that method of handling ) and then they bid men have a care in their beginning , of coming close to the business ; but they must fetch a compass about , and by secret arts and degrees insinuate themselves into the good opinion of the judges before they are aware of it . this is the very method which is made use of by the deceitfulness of sin ; it dares not stand the examination of any close reasoning , for all its artifices would presently be discover'd then ; but it makes use of these arts of insinuation . . it endeavours to raise a good opinion of it self by false colours and representations of things . . when it hath done that , it draws men on by degrees to the practice of it . . when men are engaged in the practice of sin , then it represents to them how much it is their own interest to defend it , and so brings them from the counsel of the ungodly , and the way of sinners , to the seat of the scornful . . it endeavours to raise a good opinion of it self by false colours and representations of things . the first precept of insinuation is to remove prejudice ; for while that continues , all that can be said will be of no force . while men look on sin as vile , and loathsome ; as mean and unworthy of a man ; as inconsistent with the peace and contentment of their minds , so long temptations are easily resisted : all arts must therefore be used to make it appear with all the address and flattery which is most apt to entice a poor deluded sinner . then , the fetters and shackles which it brings to enslave men with , must be looked on and admired as ornaments ; it s most sordid and filthy pleasures must be thought great and manly ; and a little present honour and advantage appear more valuable than an eternal state of happiness and glory . these are things we should think it very hard for men to be deceived with ; and yet every day we find they are so ; and which is far more , they are ready to take it very ill of those who go about to undeceive them . in other cases , if a man tells another , that he is like to be deceived with a false and counterfeit jewel instead of a true one ; or to buy a bad title to an estate instead of a good one , he thinks himself very much obliged to him for his fidelity and kindness ; only in the case of mans beloved sins , although they will prove the greatest cheats in the world to him , yet he cannot well endure to be told so ; but his blood is apt to fire and enflame him into a passion against him that doth it ; and although it be meant with the greatest innocency and kindness , it is ready to be interpreted to be only the effect of malice and ill will. for now sin hath insinuated it self so far into him , that no one can be thought a friend to the person , who is not so to his sins ; and they are then come to that height of friendship and community of interests , to have common friends and common enemies . now all the discourses of the freedom , and pleasure , and satisfaction of a mans mind in the practice of vertue appear very dull and insipid things ; and fit only for learned fools or philosophers to talk of . nothing deserves the name of liberty with them , but a power of doing what they please . what nonsense and contradiction doth it seem to them for those to be accounted free , who are under any bonds or restraints ? no matter to them , whether they be from god , or nature , from reason or conscience , as long as they are restraints , they look on them as inconsistent with their notion of liberty . and next to those who threaten men with punishments in another world for what they do amiss in this , they account those the greatest fools that first found out the distinction of good and evil , and just and unjust in the actions of men , what fools ( say they ) were they to fasten dishonourable and reproachful names on some of the most pleasant and beneficial actions of life ? for thus a man is debarred that noble and manly vice of drunkenness for fear of losing the reputation of sobriety ; and the extravagancies of lust , for fear of doing injury to his neighbours bed ; and supposing a man hath never so much advantages in his hands to enrich himself by defrauding another , yet he must not do it , because although an estate be in the keeping of a fool , yet another must not be a knave to get it from him . thus do these miserable slaves to vice pitty the weakness of those who have so little wit ( as they think ) not to understand the liberty they enjoy : but thus do mad men pitty the dulness of those that are in their wits , that do not sing , and rant , and despise the world , as they do : and fancy themselves to be kings and princes , while they are tyed fast in their chains , and lye in straw . and upon such grounds as these , the most rude and barbarous indians did better understand the liberty of mankind , than the most civilized nations . for all civility is a debarring men of some part of this natural liberty , i. e. of those things which men have a power to do ; and upon this ground all antient law-givers and wise men , who by degrees brought several nations to order and government , and to live by laws , ought to be hated as the greatest tyrants and usurpers upon the liberties of mankind : and the natural consequence of this would be the overthrow of all laws , and order , and government in the world. but if there must be some restraints upon men , then we are to consider what restraints are just and reasonable , within whose bounds we are to contain our selves ; and whatever tends to the dishonour of god , to the injury of others , or to our own destruction , it is all the reason in the world we should abstain from . and if men would but do this , they would be kept from the practice of sin : and so this imaginary notion of a boundless liberty will appear to be only one of the false colours that sin puts upon evil actions , on purpose to tempt men to the commission of them . but there is another poison which more subtilly and dangerously insinuates it self into the hearts of men , and by which sin gets the possession there , and that is the love of pleasure ; i do not mean the pleasure of the mind , or the pleasure of a good conscience , for there is no danger in these ; but it is the love of sensual pleasure which is most apt to ensnare men in the practice of sin . it is under this representation chiefly , that sin deceives , betrayes , entangles , bewitches , destroyes the souls of men : it is this which fills the imagination , and darkens the understanding with filthy steams and vapours , and hurries a man on with the impetuous violence of passions , without considering the mischievous consequence which attends it , either as to his honour in this world , or his salvation in another . this danger which attends the pleasures of sin was well represented in one of the eastern parables , of a man violently pursued by wild beasts to the top of a precipice , where there was a tree growing on the side of a great lake , and at the foot of it a prodigious serpent lying ready to devour him ; the man being in this astonishment gets upon the first branch of the tree he could reach ; but he was no sooner there , but his horrour increased at the apprehension of his danger on every side of him ; and that which added the most to his consternation was that the very branch on which he stood was almost eaten off ; while he was in this terrible fright , he looks up to the top of the tree , and there sees some wild honey trickling down the body of the tree , which he was so taken with , and so pleased with the sweetness of it , that he forgets his danger , till of a sudden the branch breaks , and down he drops into the lake without recovery . this is the true representation of the pleasures of sin , which men are so much entertained with , that they never consider the hazard they run , and scarce think of their danger till they drop into that state of misery from whence there is no redemption . but besides these soft and voluptuous sinners , ( who are easily deceived and hardly drawn out of the snares they fall into ) there are others of a more busie , restless , and designing temper , and to these sin appears under another shape to deceive them , with all the advantages of external splendour and greatness . and thus they who possibly might escape the baits of pleasure , are carryed away by the more plausible temptations of riches and honour . it is supposed by some , that when the devil tempted christ with the offers of the kingdoms of this world , if he would fall down and worship him , he did not know , who he was , but had a mind to try him by the most probable way of discovering what was within him : but surely the devil thought him some extraordinary person , or else he would never have made so large an offer at first , viz. of no less than all the kingdoms of the world , whereas very much less than one of these hath served to corrupt and debauch the minds of many who have been great pretenders to piety and vertue . it was indeed somewhat a hard condition the devil joyned with his offer , to fall down and worship him , because he then designed not only a victory but a triumph ; but with others he conceals the condition and draws them on by degrees , still rising higher and higher in his temptations , thereby feeding and enlarging their desires ; till the love of this world hath gotten such an entire possession of their hearts , that they scarce ever in good earnest think of another till their souls are passing into it . and then it may be , they sadly reflect on their own folly , in that they have preferred the deluding scenes and pompous shews of worldly greatness , before the compleat and endless felicity of another life . but it very often happens , that it is not so long , as till their leaving this world , that men come to understand the restless folly of ambition . for the things of this world are like epicurus his atoms , alwayes moving and justling one against another ; and one mans ambition serves to supplant anothers , and they who cannot raise themselves may yet help to ruine others ; and oft-times those very designs by which they most hoped to advance themselves , prove the occasion of their fall and destruction . the mahumetans have a story to this purpose ; in the time of iesus three men in a journey hapned to find a treasure ; but being hungry , they sent one of their number to buy provisions ; he consults how he might get this treasure to himself , and for that end resolves to poison their meat , the other two agreed to share it between them , and to kill the third assoon as he returned ; which they did , and themselves soon after dyed of the poisoned meat . iesus passing by with his disciples , said , this is the condition of this world ! see what the love of it hath brought these men to ! wo be to him that looks for any other usage from it . this is the first way whereby sin doth insinuate into the minds of them ; viz. by false colours and representations of things . . but when sin hath so far insinuated it self to bring men to a better opinion of it , it doth not presently hurry them on to the greatest height of wickedness ; but leads them gently and by easie steps and degrees , lest they should start back presently with the fright of some dreadful sin . which will appear if we consider , how one comes to be corrupted by sin that hath had the advantage of a modest and vertuous education : if those who design to debauch him speak out at first in plain words what they aim at , a sudden horrour seizes upon him at the apprehension of it , and it may be he hates their company for ever after . but there is so much a sense of shame left in humane nature , that men dare not tempt others to sin , at least at first , in plain terms ; and the same temptation which being represented one way would affright , appearing with greater art and dissimulation may easily prevail . and sin is a thing , that men hate to be forced , but too much love to be cheated into the practice of it . how doth a young sinner struggle with himself , and would if it were possible get out of the noise of his own conscience , when he hath offered force and violence to it ! he is very uneasie to himself , and wisheth a thousand times he had never committed the sin , rather than to feel such horrour and disquiet in his mind , upon the sense of it . but if this doth not make him presently repent , and resolve never to be guilty again of the same folly , ( as in all reason it ought to do ) then by time and company he wears off the impression of his guilt , and the next occasion of sinning makes him forget the wounds of his conscience , and the smart he endured before ; and the fresh temptation revives the sense of his former pleasure , and then he is able to withstand no longer ; and thus by repeating the same acts , by degrees he becomes a very hopeful sinner , and the reports of his conscience are but like that of sounds at a greater distance ; they lessen still more and more , till at last they cannot be heard at all . and when he hath thus mastered his conscience , as to any one sin , which at first he was fearful of committing , and hath found such an ice upon his conscience as will bear him , he goes on still farther and farther , till nothing be too hard for him . he that at first started and trembled at the hearing of an horrid oath , now can hear whole volleys of them discharged without shrinking ; and can bear his part in that hellish concert : and he that was so hardly brought to be wicked himself , may in a little time ( as some men are strange proficients in wickedness ) tempt and encourage others to the practice of it . . and when men are arrived to an habitual continuance in sin , then for their present ease and security , they cast about for any wayes to defend it . for whatever is become of conscience , they may have such a sense of reputation left , that they would not be thought fools , and be contemned and despised by others . but although it be impossible for such to avoid scorn and contempt among all those who have any true regard to vertue or honour , yet they will endeavour rather to defend themselves in doing ill , than recover their reputation by repentance . and because it would puzzle the wits of the most subtle and concerned persons to find out pretences and excuses for some kinds of sins ; therefore the easiest way is to represent all the world as alike bad , although not alike cunning ; and although it may be not in the same way , yet in something as ill in it self , but more agreeable to their age , temper , and condition of life . thus the greatest sinners love to herd themselves in a croud , and think it some poor defence for their sins , that they would have others believed to be as bad as they : as though a man were in the less danger by the plague , because it is a general contagion . but if it happen that some persons in the world should have any reputation for vertue among them , then all the weaknesses , and indiscretions of such , are sure to be enquired after , that so what is accounted vertue , may be thought only natural sourness of temper , or want of wit to be otherwise . but if any such should be found in a miscarriage , what joy and triumph doth this make ? what load of circumstances and aggravations do they lay upon them ; as though one single miscarriage of such persons were to weigh down a thousand enormities of theirs . and because it is impossible to defend their extravagant courses by reason , the only way left for them is to make satyrical invectives against reason ; as though it were the most uncertain , foolish and ( i had almost said ) unreasonable thing in the world : and yet they pretend to shew it in arguing against it : but it is pitty such had not their wish , to have been beasts rather than men , ( if any men can make such a wish that have it not already ) that they might have been less capable of doing mischief among mankind ; by representing all the excellencies of humane nature , which are reason , and vertue , and religion , but as more grave and solemn fopperies . but how hard are such men put to defend their vices , that cannot do it , without trampling under foot the most noble perfections of their own nature ! these however are the more ingenuous sort of sinners , that yield reason and religion to be of vertues side ; but there are others that make use of some shallow pretences of reason to excuse themselves in their sins : which is the second way whereby sin deceives men , viz. . by false reasonings : and those taken either , . from their present impunity : . or from their future repentance . . from their present impunity in sinning , men are apt to deceive themselves into a continuance in it . this is the account the wise man hath long since given of mens being hardned in sin ; because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily ; therefore the hearts of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil . it seems somewhat hard to understand the consequence , why men should grow more desperately wicked , because god gives them a space to repent ? is it necessary that if god doth punish at all , he must do it presently ? that would seem to be rage and fury , or a necessity of nature , and not justice . cannot judgement be duly executed , unless the judge break open the prison doors , and torment the malefactor in his chains ? why may not god respite the punishment of sinners , when he pleases , to another state , since he hath declared that he hath appointed a day wherein he will judge the world in righteousness ? what incongruity is there in this to any principle of reason or justice ? will not this time of gods patience , be a sufficient vindication of his lenity and goodness in order to the drawing men to repentance ? and will not the day of his future judgement be a full vindication of his justice ? will not the insupportable honours of a miserable eternity discover far more gods abhorrence of sin , than present sufferings in this life , which , the greater they are , the less they continue ? but all this false way of reasoning ariseth from that gross piece of self-flattery that such do imagine god to be like themselves ; i. e. as cruel and revengeful as they are : and they presently think , if any persons did offend them at the rate that sinners are said to offend god , and they had so much power in their hands to punish them as he has , without any fear of revenge upon themselves , they would be sure to dispatch them presently ; but because they see god doth it not , therefore they conclude that all the talk of gods anger and hatred against sin is without ground : and from hence they take encouragement to sin . so the psalmist saith in gods name , these things thou didst and i kept silence ; and they presently took his silence for consent ; for it follows , and thou thoughtest that i was altogether such a one as thy self : but the psalmist adds , how ill he took this at mens hands , and that he would one day make them know the difference between the forbearance of sinners , and the love of their sins ; but i will reprove thee , and set them in order before thee . and therefore he bids them be better advised , and consider this while they forget god , lest he tear them in pieces , and there be none to deliver . . men are hardned by the deceitfulness of sin , from the hopes of their future repentance . for that is one of the great cheats of sin , that every one thinks he can repent and shake off his sins when he hath a mind to do it . sin doth not lye like a heavy weight upon their backs , so that they feel the load of it ; and therefore they think it is easily removed , if they would set themselves to it . most of those that believe a god and a judgement to come , and yet continue in sin , do it upon this presumption , that one time or other , they shall leave their sins , and change the course of their lives before they go out of this world . they have not only thoughts of repentance , but general purposes of doing the acts of it at one time , or other ; but that time is not come , and god knows whether it ever will or no. for sin entices them and draws them on still ; and when any motions towards repentance come into their minds , that presently suggests , it is time enough yet ; why so much haste ? there will be trouble enough in it when you must do it , what need you bring it so fast upon you ? are not you likely to hold out a great many years yet ? what pitty it is to lose so much of the pleasure of life , while you are capable of enjoying it ? there is old age coming , and when you will be good for nothing else , then will be time enough to grow wise and to repent . but o foolish sinner , who hath bewitched thee to hearken to such unreasonable suggestions as these are ! for . in the last place , it ought to be our present , our constant , our greatest care to prevent being hardned by the deceitfulness of sin . for to this end , it is not enough to consider of it at one time or other in our lives , but we must be exhorting one another daily , while it is called to day , lest any of us be hardned through the witchcraft and deceitfulness of sin : and if it be so much the duty of others to shew that regard to one anothers souls ; how much more doth it become us to do it , who expect to be called to an account at the great day for the discharge of our trust in this matter ? it is a dreadful passage we read of in the prophet ezekiel , and enough to make our ears to tingle at the repeating it , when i say unto the wicked , o wicked man thou shalt surely dye , if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way , that wicked man shall dye in his iniquity , but his blood will i require at thine hand . we would fain believe this to have been some particular and extraordinary commission given to the prophet by god himself , which doth not concern us ; for what will become of us , if not only our own faults ( which god knows are too many ) but other mens shall be charged upon us ? when either through neglect , or flattery , or fear of displeasing , or for any mean and unworthy ends , we betray our trust , and instead of preventing prove the occasion of mens being too much hardned through the deceitfulness of sin . but although we neither pretend to be prophets , nor apostles , yet it is our office to take care of the souls of men , and can we discharge that , as we ought to do , if we do not with all faithfulness warn men of the danger they run into through the deceitfulness of sin ? it were happy for us if we could say , that all the lords people are holy ; for then we should have nothing to do , but to praise and commend their vertues , which were an easie and a delightful task : but what pleasure is it to rake into the sores , or to reprove the vices of a degenerate age ? to be thought troublesome and impertinent , if we do our duty ; and men of no conscience , if we do it not ? but our work is neither to libel our auditors , nor to flatter them ; neither to represent them as better , nor worse than they are ; nor to charge them with more guilt than their own consciences do charge them with : but our business is , to beseech and exhort them by the mercies of god , by the sufferings of christ , by the love and tenderness they have for their immortal souls , that they would to day , while it is called to day , take heed lest they be hardned through the deceitfulness of sin . and that will appear to be very reasonable on these considerations . . that none are out of the danger of it , while they live in this tempting world. what need have we to take care of being deceived by that , which hath been too hard for the best , the wisest , and the greatest of men ? man in his best state , even that of innocency , was deceived by the insinuations of sin : when there was no matter within for the temptation to work upon , no reason suggested that could move a common understanding , no interest or advantage that could sway him ; no other moving cause appears to us of that fatal apostasie of adam , but either the imagination of some unknown pleasure , or the bare curiosity of trying an experiment what the effects would be of tasting the forbidden fruit . and ever since so general hath the corruption of mankind been , so successful have the artifices and deceits of sin been in the world , that the best of men have not wholly escaped them ; but have sometimes fallen in those very graces which have been most remarkable in them , as abraham in his trust in god , moses in his meekness , iob in his patience , peter in his zeal for christ. what cause then have others to look to themselvs ! if wisdom and experience would have secured men , we should have thought , of all men in the world , solomon the least in danger of being deceived by the insinuations of sin , who had given such excellent cautions against those very snares he fell into himself ; and that to such a degree , that his case is left disputable to this day , whether he ever recovered by repentance or no. what numbers are there upon record of those mighty men , who have made the earth to tremble at the noise of their armies ; who have led kings in chains after their triumphal chariots , and have been served by those whom others have adored ; yet have , notwithstanding all this , been enslaved themselves by some mean lust , and destroyed by the power of an effeminate passion ? what can be strong enough to resist those charms , which neither innocency , nor wisdom , nor power are sufficient security against ? nothing , but the grace of god , and continual care of our selves . . the less men suspect their danger , the more cause they have to be afraid of it . none are more fatally deceived by sin , than those who apprehend no danger in it , or think they can escape it when they please . how strangely infatuated are those through the deceitfulness of sin , who think with themselves , that after they have spent their lives in sin , they shall make god amends by a few dying groans , and such a repentance as can have no amendment of life ? most men , who are the greatest slaves to their sins , are so much deceived by them , as to think they have them wholly at their command , and can when they please cast them off : and such imaginations keep them faster in subjection to them . for if they did apprehend themselves under such slavery , as really they are , they would grow weary and impatient of the yoak ; whereas now because they are not forced to commit their sins , they suppose they can with ease forsake them . but none are such incurable fools , as they that think themselves wise ; and none are so miserably deceived as they that think themselves too cunning for their sins . if it be so easie to shake off your sins , remember that your condemnation will be so much more just , if you do it not ; for god required no hard thing for you to do : and if it be so easie , why is it not hitherto done ? why do you mock god so often , and pretend every year to repent , and yet are every year as bad , if not worse than other ? why are not the fruits of repentance seen in the amendment of life for one year , or a moneth , or one bare week ? is it not worth while to do so little for him , that hath done so much for you ? methinks , common ingenuity might prevail with men , at least to let god have some part of their lives entire to himself , without interfering with the devil . but therein lyes a great part of the deceitfulness of sin , that it falls out here , as in some malignant diseases , men seldom understand their danger , till they are almost past recovery . . none are so likely to be hardned in sin , as those who delay and put off their repentance . for the very putting it off is a sign that sin hath a greater power , than the convictions of conscience : for why should men ever intend to repent , if they did not think it necessary ? and if they think it necessary and yet do it not , it is plain there is something within them stronger than conscience , which keeps them from it . so that he that intends to repent , and yet lives in sin , hath that aggravation of sin above others , that he sins against his conscience all that time . tell me then , o thou subtle sinner , that hopest to be too hard for god and for sin too , by enjoying thy sins as long as thou canst , and then repenting at last , to escape the vengeance of god : dost thou in good earnest intend ever to repent or no ? if thou dost not , never deceive thy self ; god will not accept these pretences and promises instead of real repentance . if thou dost intend it sincerely , what makes thee to intend it ? is it not , that thou art convinced it is much better to be done than not , but canst not find it in thy heart to do it yet ? thou knowest all this while it were much better to leave thy sins , than to live in them , it were far better to be sober , and temperate , and pious , and devout , than to be debauched and profane ; and yet for all this , thou dost not repent , but goest on in the same course . consider then , that this very circumstance deeply aggravates every sin that is committed after it . for it is not a bare neglect of repentance , which thou art guilty of , but a contempt of god and goodness ; it is , not only not repenting , but it is an obstinate and wilful resolution of sinning : for there is no medium between living in sin and forsaking of it ; and nothing deserves the name of repentance , that is short of that . and if thou art so wilful and unreasonable now , as notwithstanding thy resolutions to repent , to live still in thy sins , how canst thou ever hope to repent at last , when thy heart will be so much more hardned by continuance in sin ? . lastly , consider the sad condition of those who are hardned through the deceitfulness of sin . they are said in scripture to be past feeling , and to be given over to a reprobate mind , i. e. to have lost all sense of their danger , and of the ill condition they are in ; they despise all means of instruction , and scorn all those who would do them good , and who mean them no other injury but to perswade them to be happy . with what disdain and contempt do those proud and lofty sinners , who are once arrived at this height of wickedness , look down upon all those , who endeavour by reason and scripture to convince them of their sins ! as though it were not possible for any thing to make men seem more ridiculous to them , than to see them concerned to plead the cause of vertue and religion . to what purpose is all this ado about repentance ? why should not men be let alone to do as they think fit ? for let them preach their hearts out , men will do as they please . this is the language of those who are already hardned in their sins ; but god forbid , it should be so of any here present ; who make it our prayer to god to be delivered from hardness of heart , and contempt of his word and commandments . and we have great reason so to do ; for there is no judgement short of hell , like to the being given up to a reprobate sense : for all the most weighty arguments and most forcible perswasions are to such but like showres falling upon a rock , that make some noise and slide off again , but make no impression or entrance into them . god almighty give us all his grace to understand our danger and to repent in time , that none of us be hardned through the deceitfulness of sin . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e heb. . , . heb. . . . . . . heb. . . . heb. . , . rom. . , , , , , , . cor. . . ephes. . , . pet. . . joh. . . xen. ep . ad aesch. rom. . . . . gal. . . eph. . . pet. . . rom. . . eph. . , , . heb. . , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . heb. . , . perzoes proleg . . c. . ad specim . sapient . vet . indorum . mat. . , . warn . prov. persic . p. . eccl. . . act. . . psal. . . v. . ezek. . . eph. . . rom. . . a sermon preached before the king & queen at white-hall on christmas-day, by the right reverend father in god, edward lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached before the king & queen at white-hall on christmas-day, by the right reverend father in god, edward lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed by j.h. for henry mortlock ..., london : . "published by their majesties special command." advertisement: p. [ ] at end. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t. -- john iii -- sermons. christmas sermons. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - melanie sanders sampled and proofread - melanie sanders text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached before the king & queen at white-hall , on christmass-day , . by the right reverend father in god , edward lord bishop of worcester . published by their majesties special command . london , printed by i. h. for henry mortlock , at the phoenix in s. paul's church-yard , . s. john iii. . for god sent not his son into the world to condemn the world ; but that the world through him might be saved . these words are part of the gospel written by s. john , wherein he doth not only fill up the history of our saviour with many particular discourses omitted by the other evangelists , but the whole seems to be penned in another strain and with some different purpose and design . it 's true , that they all agree in the same general end of writing which s. john mentions , viz. that we might believe that jesus is the christ the son of god , and that believing we might have life through his name ; but they make use of several methods , as most agreeable to the circumstances of the time and place and occasion of their writing . s. matthew wrote his gospel for the sake of the jews ; and therefore he begins with the genealogy of jesus christ from abraham , and shews that the prophecies were accomplished in him , and how he came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it , and that his miracles and doctrine were sufficient to convince them that he was the promised messias . s. mark wrote only a summary account of the most material passages relating to the person and doctrine of christ for the sake of the gentiles . s. luke takes a larger compass , and puts things into an exacter order of time , as himself tells us , and adds many circumstances relating to the birth of christ , and the general advantage to mankind by his coming ; that he was to be a light to lighten the gentiles , as well as the glory of his people israel . s. john succeeding the rest , found two great things which gave him occasion of writing his gospel ; . the perverting the doctrine of christ by the ebionites and cerinthians , who pretended to give great honour to christ as an excellent person both for wisdom and holiness , but yet so that he was but a meer man , to whom god , upon his baptism , had given extraordinary gifts and assistances of his holy spirit . . the other was , that the gospel which was designed for the universal good of the world met with such cold reception and entertainment from it . he was in the world , and the world was made by him , and the world knew him not . he came unto his own , and his own received him not . what could be more uneasy to so true a lover of christ as s. john was , than that he lived to see his doctrine perverted , and his design in so great a measure rendred ineffectual ? and therefore in the writing of this gospel , . he begins after another manner ; and in a very short , significant and lofty style , he sets forth his eternal being and godhead . in the beginning was the word , and the word was with god , and the word was god. and as the eternal power and godhead were understood by the things that were made , as s. paul saith , so he adds , that all things were made by him , and without him was not any thing made that was made . vvhich is as certain an argument of the divinity of christ , as there is of the being of god from the creation of the vvorld . . as to the other point ; it was indeed a sad and amazing consideration , that the wonderfull love of god in sending his son into the world should have so little effect upon the generality of those to whom he was sent and his doctrine preached ; but the apostle contents himself with these two accounts of it ; . that it was far from being god's intention or design in sending his son to make mens condition worse and more desperate ; for god sent not his son into the world to condemn the world , but that the world through him might be saved . . but it might be presently objected , that if this were god's intention , the world would not have receiv'd so little benefit by it , but according to the terms of salvation proposed by the gospel so few will have advantage by it ; therefore the evangelist adds , that if men did perish they must thank themselves for it ; for , this is the condemnation that light is come into the world , and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil , v. . so that here are two things which deserve our consideration . i. the wonderfull condescension and gracious intention of god in sending his son into the world. ii. the true reason why so many miscarry , as to their salvation notwithstanding ; viz. their own wickedness and folly. . the former of these , is that , which upon this day we have particular reason to take notice of ; not in a slight superficial manner , ( as though an annual commemoration of it were all that god expected from us , ) but our minds and souls ought to be possessed with a deep and humble sense of so great , so undeserved , so astonishing a condescension of god to mankind . and the more we think and consider of it , the more amazing and surprizing it must appear to us : for when the psalmist thought but of god's providence towards mankind , he could not but break out into that expression , lord , what is man , that thou art mindfull of him , and the son of man , that thou so regardest him ! what is man indeed ! a mass of vanity and disorder ; weak in his judgment , wilfull in his passions ; uncertain in his best resolutions , violent in his worst inclinations ; strangely bent upon what tends to his ruin , and hardly brought to understand and pursue his truest interest ! what is such a creature as this , that a god infinitely wise and powerfull , far above our thoughts as well as our services , should concern himself about the low and trifling affairs of mankind ! but such is the goodness and condescension of god , that he humbles himself so far , as not only to behold , but to govern the things that are done upon earth . but what is man that he should visit him ! not with the meer common demonstrations of his kindness , which he affords to other creatures ; but that when mankind had so far degenerated and fallen off from god by their sins , that they deserved to be for ever cast off and forgotten by him ; that then god should visit him by sending his son into the world that the world through him might be saved ; this is so far above our imaginations as well as deserts , that it seems to be the most colourable pretence for infidelity , that it is too great a thing for mankind to believe . but i am sensible , that in this sceptical and unbelieving age , there is such a humour of cavilling against matters of revelation , especially this fundamental article of it , that it would seem as if we were afraid to look their objections in the face , if we take no notice of them ; and on the other side , to insist too much upon them , were to make them appear much more considerable than they are . therefore i shall pass over all the trifling and impertinent talk of such men ( which is not whispered in corners , but i am afraid is become a matter of too common and publick discourse ) and i shall single out that which seems to have the greatest weight in it ; viz. suppose god should have an intention to offer terms of salvation to mankind , yet what need was there that the son of god should come into the world for that end ? had not god easier methods of doing it than by the incarnation and crucifixion of his son ? is it not more credible , that god should forgive sins without any attonement , than that he should send his son to be a sacrifice of propitiation to himself ? is it not enough for us to believe all the principles of natural religion to be true ; for we own a god , and providence , and a life to come , and rewards and punishments of mankind according to the nature of their actions ; but why should our faith be cramp'd by such incredible mysteries as these , concerning the son of god's coming into the world ; in such a manner as the evangelists describe it : this is so far from being a kindness to the world , that it makes the condition of salvation so much harder , if we must believe things which seem so impossible to us , and so hard to be reconciled to the natural principles of reason and religion . i shall not dispute it with such men whether these late pretenders to natural religion have at the bottom any real kindness for the principles of it , or not ; i am willing to hope the best , and that it is a meer dissatisfaction in them as to our revealed religion ; and that this pretended zeal for natural religion is little more than a meer sham and disguise to avoid a more odious imputation . but let it be as great and real as they pretend , what i at present undertake , is to make it appear , that none who do embrace the principles of natural religion can have any reason to reject the christian , even as to this article of god's sending his son into the world , which they seem most to stumble at . i shall not go about to shew , how the christian religion not only supposes , but improves , refines , establishes and enforces the most noted and allowed principles of natural religion , as to the being of god and providence ; the most agreeable way of worship ; the nature and kinds of moral duties , the rewards and punishments of another world , since no one of common sense can deny that the christian religion is very exact and particular in these things above any other institution in the world. and therefore i cannot , but in passing , take notice , that i do not remember any one institution in the world with respect to religion , except that which we have by revelation , which hath not some notorious blunders in it , as to the principles of natural religion and vertue ; and therefore they have far less reason to quarrel with christianity than any other religion ( if their quarrel were not really against all , as i fear it is ; ) let them look abroad over the unchristian world ; and they will find such foolish notions , such vain superstitions , such incoherent fables , such immoral practices allowed by their several religions , as would make a considering man wonder how the notion of religion could be so debased among men. let them look backward upon the passages of elder times , and they shall find either they set up false gods with the true , or the false worship of the true god ; or a worship disagreeable to the divine nature by mean representations , or uncouth sacrifices , or impure rites ; or else there were some horrible flaws , as to the common principles of morality , as to conjugal society , or the rights of property , or the due regard to the preservation of mankind ; or they give such a pitifull representation of the rewards and punishments of another life , as if they had a mind to have them look'd on as fables , or despised as unworthy our regarding them above the present pleasures of life . but i dare challenge the most cavilling sceptick to find any just fault with the duties of christianity ; for the worship of god required therein , is pure , holy , spiritual , very agreeable to the divine nature and the common reason of mankind . the moral precepts of it are clear , weighty and comprehensive . and those who have delivered them to us , neither commend any vice , nor sink the reputation of any vertue ; they never lessen our duties to god , or to one another ; all the just complaint is , that the precepts are too strict and severe , too good and too hard for mankind to practise them . but is this an objection against our religion , or against mankind ? if they think that , let our religion require what it will , the generality of the world will still live and act like brutes , and go against all reason and religion ; how can we help it ? but we hope the blame is not to be laid on reason or religion , that so great a part of mankind are either fools or mad-men ; i. e. either want sense to understand their duty , or are resolved not to practise it . especially considering , that the rewards and punishments of another life , are set forth in the gospel , with that clearness , that force , that authority , that if any thing of that nature would work upon mankind , these must . but all these things i pass over , and come to that which i proposed as my chief design , which is to prove , that none who truly believe the principles of natural religion , can have any reason to reject this fundamental article of it , as to god's sending his son into the world. and that upon two accounts . i. that the principles of natural religion make this design appear very credible , or fit to be believed by men of sense and understanding . ii. that the principles on which this fundamental article of our revealed religion stands , afford sufficient evidence to prove it true ; and therefore that we are bound to believe it . as to the former , the grounds or principles which i go upon , are these : i. that the great end of christ's coming into the world , viz. the salvation of mankind , is most agreeable to the infinite wisdom and goodness of god. no one who believes a god , can deny him to be of infinite wisdom and goodness ; for the very same reasons which move men to believe a god , do convince them that he must be of infinite wisdom and goodness , seeing the strongest evidences to prove his being are from the instances of them in the world. these being then supposed , as essential and inseparable attributes of the divine nature ; we are to consider what end with respect to mankind is most agreeable to these to carry on ; and we must suppose mankind to be made up of soul and body , which are capable of pleasures and satisfaction , both in this world and another : but our souls are of an immortal nature , that will subsist in happiness or misery after this life , otherwise the rewards and punishments of another world signify nothing ; the question then is ( if it can be made a question ) whether it be more agreeable to the infinite goodness and wisdom of god to provide for the well-being of mankind in such a low and gloomy a region , as this earth is , or to advance them into a far better place , and better company , and more noble and divine delights , and those not depending on a fading , drooping , dying life , but on the perpetual enjoyment of a complete happiness both of soul and body . no one that ever dares to think or consider of these things , can believe there is any comparison between them ; so that the salvation tendred by the gospel , is the most agreeable end which the wisdom and goodness of god could carry on for the benefit of mankind . but why should mankind flatter themselves with the hopes or expectation of a happiness so far above what they can pretend to deserve ? there were some grounds for such an objection as this ; if we supposed the rewards of another life to come from any other fountain than the infinite goodness of god towards those who sincerely love him and endeavour to please him ; although with many failings and imperfections . but this is the only hypothesis , which we maintain to be the christian doctrine : and what is there in it , which is repugnant to the wisdom and goodness of god ? what was it but infinite goodness which gave a being to the world at first , and hath preserved it ever since , and made it so usefull and beneficial to mankind ? what is it , but infinite goodness that suffers us to live and enjoy so many comforts of life , after so many great and continual provocations ? if we were to argue from our deserts , it were impossible for us to justifie the wonderfull patience and long-suffering of god towards the sinfull race of mankind ; for we are certain , that they have long since deserved to be cut off from the face of the earth ? if we consider the justice and holiness of god , whereby he is daily provoked to punish offenders , and the power he hath to execute his justice in a moment , without any opposite power to controll or resist him ; we have reason to be astonished at the wonderfull patience and forbearance of god , of which we every day see so large experience . but this is not all ; he doth not only suffer them to live , but often makes their condition easie and prosperous as to this world , having health , riches and honour , and the hopes of their posterity , enjoying the same things after them . now these to such , who do not believe or value another life , are the greatest things god can do to their satisfaction . but if they can allow so much goodness in god towards those who continually offend him ; why should they question greater instances of it towards those that endeavour to please him ? i do not mean as to this world , but as to another which they value far before it ; for if they do not , they have no reason to expect any happiness in it : why then should it be thought more unreasonable for god to bestow the happiness of another life , on those who esteem and choose it , than to give the good things of this life to those who love and admire it ? i do not say , the wisdom is equal in the choice ; but the goodness of god is wonderfull in both . and there can be no imaginable ground to suspect , that god should be really less kind to those who love him best . it is a vain thing to talk of those being saved by christ's coming into the world , who do not heartily love god and keep his commandments ; for the whole design of the gospel is to perswade us to one in order to the other ; and therefore it is not a well-grounded hope , but a fond imagination for any to expect salvation by christ on any other terms . if we then take in the whole hypothesis or true scheme of christianity together , it is no other than that god sent his son into the world , that the world through him might be saved ; not by continuing in the sinfull practises of this world , which s. john calls the lust of the flesh , and the lust of the eye , and the pride of life ; but by subduing and mortifying all disorderly passions do prepare themselves for a better state. now , if there be in our minds a firm perswasion of the infinite goodness of god , of which we are convinced by meer natural reason ; why should it be thought hard to believe , that god should take care of so great and good an end , as the eternal salvation of those who truly love and obey him . ii. the next principle agreeable to natural reason and religion is , that no such thing as salvation or happiness in a future state can be expected without the particular favour of god. for , all who do own natural religion , must agree that the soul of man is an immortal thinking being ; and therefore its happiness must consist in such a sort of thinking , as carries the greatest pleasure and satisfaction along with it . let us think with our selves what a soul separate from the body can do , to make it self happy : here it was intangled , corrupted , and therefore apt to be deceived by the false appearances of things , which glide through the senses and leave too lasting impressions on the mind ; and thereby it comes to mistake shews for substance and meer colours for realities . but this is a mistake so common and so fatal to mankind , that very few are throughly undeceived in this world ; for one way or other they are apt to flatter themselves with some pleasing mistakes and delightfull errors of life . but assoon as the soul is dislodged from this cloudy mansion in the body , all things will then appear , not as by an uncertain sky-light in a dark room , but in an open and distinct view , and then it will be impossible to be any longer deceived by false representations of things . what then can be conceived sufficient to entertain and please the mind ? will it be the reflection on the past pleasures of the body ? no certainly ; for those cannot bear a severe reflection onw ; and the very thoughts of them make men's minds very uneasie ; for the most tempting pleasures of sin leave no grateful relish behind them . how then should the mind bear up it self in another state , when its reflections must be far more constant and severe ? what then ? can the mind lay it self asleep , and put it self into a state of unthinking ? that were all one , as a kind of self-annihilation if it be of a thinking nature . there is a state of unthinking in this vvorld , which is too common ; when the mind is as it were overlaid and stifled with feathers ; i mean is so taken up with trifling and vain imaginations , as hardly give way to one serious thought . but this is impossible in another state ; and therefore nothing but what will bear a most strict and severe scrutiny can give any support or comfort to the mind then . it must be true and real good to create any satisfaction ; it must be durable and lasting to keep it up ; it must be compleat and perfect to answer all the just and reasonable desires of an immortal soul. and what can this be less than god himself ? and therefore the christian religion speaks most agreeably to natural reason , when it still supposes the happiness of another vvorld to consist in the presence and enjoyment of god. for those must have all that is desireable , who enjoy the favour of him who commands all things , and knows how to suit them to the greatest advantage to those to whom he designs to shew his favour . and this prospect of another state , or of the salvation of mankind by christ's coming into the world , is that which lets us into another view of all that relates to the son of god's coming into the vvorld : for if our minds be possessed with great apprehensions of the power and greatness of the vvorld ; all that the gospel represents as to the manner of god's sending his son into the vvorld , his being born of an obscure virgin , being laid in the common manger , being bred up in a private place , having so mean followers , meeting with so cold a reception from his own people , and at last , being exposed to an ignominious death by them , looks very reproachfull and contemptible . but on the other side , if we could raise our minds to such idea's of things here , as the glorious spirits above have ; and see how all things are esteemed by them according to the ends and purposes they are designed for , we should then perceive how admirably all these things were fitted for his great end ; which was to wean mens hearts from the pomp and vanities of this vvorld and to prepare them for a better ; and we should then have quite another opinion of these things : for as there is a certain greatness , which is above all the formal shews and affected appearances of it , so when a great and noble design is to be carried on , the true measure of decorum in that case , is that which is most serviceable to the principal end. if a great person had a design to rescue some near relations out of slavery , he would never go with a splendid equipage and a long train of attendance , which would but make his person more gazed at and his design less effectual . if he had intended to have rescued them by force out of captivity , it had been necessary to have had power and strength proportionable to his design ; but if it were only by perswasion , then he must accommodate himself to such methods as were most likely to prevail . the great end of the coming of christ was to deliver the souls of men from a much worse captivity , viz. of their own sinfull passions and the devil's tyranny by their means ; but he did not come in a way of violence to break open the prison-doors and in an instant to knock off their fetters and bid them be free ; but he makes use of all the gentle and effectual methods of perswasion , not only by his words but by his own example ; that they might learn by him to despise this world , who had so little in it , and to prepare for that from whence he came , where their happiness should be unconceivable and without end. iii. the third principle is , that no such particular favour of god is to be expected , as long as his displeasure is so just against mankind for sin , and no effectual means used to remove it . the truth is , the whole scheme of the gospel turns upon this point , whether god be really displeased with mankind for their sins , so as to need a reconciliation : for , if all that the scripture so often expresses concerning the wrath and displeasure of god against mankind for sin , be only figurative and hyperbolical expressions , then the whole design of the gospel must be given up as a meer scheme ; for , if god be not really displeased , there is no need of reconciliation ; if no need of that , then there can be no need of christ's coming to reconcile us to god ; and if he did not come for that end , we have no reason to believe the scripture , which affirms it over and over . and i do not think any stronger argument can be brought to prove a thing , than that the most emphatical expressions are so often applied to that purpose , by such persons who used all sincerity and plainness . so that this matter as to the scripture is clear , if any thing can be made so ; and if nothing can , i cannot see how it is possible to have a written rule of faith ; since all writings are capable by ambiguity of words and phrases , by the different use of particles and transposition of letters and syllables , of very different interpretations . but this is not my present business , which is rather to consider the natural sense and reason of mankind as to this matter . we cannot in reason suppose any such passion in an infinitely perfect being , as that which we call wrath and anger in men. for that is a violent perturbation arising from surprise and indignation ; but there can be no disorder or surprise in a being of infinite wisdom . therefore wrath in god must suppose two things . . a just cause of displeasure given by us . . such a just displeasure following upon it as will end in the severe punishment of offenders if it be not removed . now , whether there be a just cause of displeasure or not , must depend upon the natural differences of good and evil. and it is impossible that any one who exercises his reason , can judge amiss in this matter . not , that all the differences of good and evil are equally clear , for all propositions in mathematicks are not so ; but it is sufficient to our purpose , that the general principles are so ; and the greater instances ; so that no man can think that he acts as much according to reaso in one as the other . and , can any one of common sense imagine god to be as well pleased with him who blasphemes his name , and despises his service , and hates religion , as with one that fears and honours him , and endeavours to please him ? can he be as well pleased with him , that assassines his parents , as with him that obeys them ? with him that robs and defrauds his neighbour , as with him that relieves him in his necessities ? with him who subdues his disorderly passions , as with him that gives way to them ? with him who is cruel , inhuman and perfidious , as with him that is faithfull and just and compassionate ? these are but some of the instances of the differences of good and evil , but they are so plain and notorious , that a man must renounce the common principles of humanity , who doth not own them . and to say there are no such differences , because there have been mistakes and disputes about some things accounted good and evil , is as absurd , as to say , there is no difference between day and night , because in the twilight it is hard to distinguish them . but if there be such a real difference in the nature of human actions , and god be a strict observer of them , he being a god of infinite holiness and justice , cannot but be offended with mankind's wilfull omission of what they know to be good , and commission of what they know to be evil. but here we must distingush between god's displeasure against the actions and against the persons who commit them . the former is a necessary consequent upon the evil of sin and can never be removed , for god is irreconcileable to sin. but those who commit sin are his creatures ; and therefore capable of mercy and forgiveness . there is always a desert of punishment following upon sin ; but there is no inseparable connection between the sin and the punishment ; for the great and wise governor of the vvorld acts not by necessity of nature in punishing sinners , but by the methods of vvisdom and justice . and if the saving of sinners upon their repentance can be made agreeable to these , such is the mercy and goodness of god to his creatures , that there is great reason to hope for a reconciliation . for , although god be displeased , he is not implacable ; although he be justly provoked to punish sinners , yet there is no absolute necessity that he should ; nor any irreversible decree that he will do it ; and therefore notwithstanding this displeasure of god , there is a way still left open for reconciliation , which leads to the next . iv. the fourth principle is , that if god be thus displeased with the sins of mankind , and yet there is a possibility of reconciliation between god and them , he alone is the most proper and competent judge , on what terms this reconciliation may be obtained . for being both the offended party and the supreme governor , he hath the sole right on both accounts of fixing those terms and conditions , upon which he will forgive sins , and receive the offenders into favour . it is a vain thing for any to argue from one attribute of god against another . some are apt to flatter themselves that god will easily forgive sins , because he is mercifull , but they ought to consider that he is just and holy as well as mercifull ; and there is as much ground to fear that he will not forgive because he is just ; as there can be to hope that he will because he is mercifull . and thus it is impossible for a considering man to satisfie his own mind as to god's forgiving his sins ; unless he be some way assured from himself that he will do it . and therefore a particular revelation in this case must be made , if god designs to bring men to repentance by the hopes of forgiveness . but meer repentance can never make any satisfaction to god for the breach of his laws . suppose a sinner comes to himself and is heartily sorry that he hath offended god so many ways , and with such aggravating circumstances as he hath done ; and now resolves in the anguish of his soul never more to return to the practice of them ; this no doubt , is far more pleasing to god , than going on to offend still ; but all this is no more than a man in justice to god and to himself is bound to doe ; for he is bound to vindicate the honour of god's laws , and to condemn himself for his own folly , and to return no more to the practice of it . but what amends is made by all this , for the infinite dishonour which hath been done to god and his laws by the violation of them ? the courts of justice among men take no notice of the malefactors repentance ; however he be affected , the law must be observed , and offenders punished . how then can any persons be assured from meer natural reason , that god will not be as tender of the honour and justice of his laws , as mankind are allowed to be without any imputation of cruelty or injustice ? if god should be exact in punishing offenders , who could complain ? for who can plead not-guilty before his maker ? and when a man 's own conscience condemns him that he hath deserved punishment , what reason can he have from himself not to expect it ? and if he doth justly expect to be punished , what reason can he have to hope for forgiveness ? since he knows that he deserves to be punished , and therefore can never deserve to be forgiven . it must be therefore a free act of grace and mercy in god to forgive even penitent sinners ; and upon what terms and in what manner he will do it depends wholly upon his own good will. he may forgive sins if he pleases , and it is agreeable to his nature to do it , if sinners do repent and forsake their sins ; but whether god hath actually made known to us the way of reconciliation cannot be known by any principles of nature ; because it is a matter of fact and must have such proof as a thing of that nature is capable of . ii. having thus shewed , how strongly the principles of natural religion do make way for entertaining this point of the christian doctrine , as to god's sending his son into the world in order to our reconciliation with him and our salvation by him ; it remains now to shew how justly god doth require the belief of it from us as true ; for the next words tell us , that he that believeth on him is not condemned ; but he that believeth not is condemned already , because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten son of god , v. . this , some may say , is very hard doctrine ; for they believe as much as they can ; and if they can believe no more it is no fault ; for no man can be bound to believe more than he can . i do not question but nicodemus ( to whom these words are generally supposed to be spoken by our saviour ) thought he had gone a great way , when he used those words to christ , v. . rabbi we know that thou art a teacher come from god , for no man can do these miracles that thou dost except god be with him . i. e. he was willing to believe him some great prophet whom god had sent ; and this was a fair step for a ruler among the jews , who were generally very unreasonable unbelievers . but christ tells him plainly this would not do ; for unless he believed him to be the only begotten son of god , he could not be saved . and this is the great point , that god so loved the world , that he gave his only begotten son , that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life , v. . not , as though meer believing this were sufficient ( for this carries a great many other things along with it ) but that since god had sent his only begotten son into the world upon such a message , he did expect that he should be received and entertained as such upon their utmost peril . but can we believe farther than we have reason to believe ? no ; god doth not expect it from us , provided that with sincere and impartial minds we set our selves to consider and weigh the evidence and with great humility beg the assistance of divine grace , without which god may justly leave us to our unbelief . it would be too large a subject now to lay open the several arguments to prove that it is as evident , as a matter of fact can be made to us , that god did send his son that the world through him might be saved ; therefore i shall only mention these two things . . that if the matters of fact are true concerning the history of christ's coming , as related by the evangelists , there can be no reason to doubt his being the son of god. for he that was the most exact pattern of humility and self-denial , not only frequently assumes this title to himself , and his most intimate disciples affirm it of him ; but god himself gave the most ample and convincing testimony to it ; by his miraculous birth ; and a voice from heaven to that purpose at his baptism ; by a long train and series of publick and usefull miracles to attest the truth of his doctrine ; by his resurrection from the dead and ascension into heaven , and wonderfull effusion of the h. ghost , with the strange effects which followed it ; so that no one who doth believe these things to be true can have any ground to say that he cannot believe christ to be the son of god. . that if these matters of fact are not to be believed as true we cannot be bound to believe any thing but what we see our selves . for the distance of time and place are equal in this case ; and no other matters of fact are so well attesten as these are . and so , as the apostle saith of christ's resurrection , if he be not risen our faith is vain ; so in this case i say if there be not reason to believe these things all faith is vain . for no other matters of fact , which we should be accounted fools for not believing , have had such a sort of testimony which these have had . for these things were not conveyed by a silent tradition for some time till the chief parties were dead who could either prove or disprove them ; but they were publick and exposed to all manner of examination ; they were not deliver'd by one or two , who were trusted with a secret , but openly avowed by a great number of competent witnesses , who were present ; and none of them could be brought by the greatest sufferings to deny , or falsify , or conceal any part of their evidence ; that when these things had been thus delivered by those who saw them , who were most remarkable for their innocency and integrity , in the next ages they were examined and enquired into by men of sagacity and learning , who upon the strictest search found no reason to suspect their testimony ; and therefore heartily embraced and defended the christian faith. and from thence they have been conveyed down to us ; not by an uncertain oral tradition , which can hardly hold the same from one end of the town to another ; but by unquestionable writings ; of such authority , that the christians would rather dye than deliver up their books . and in these are all those circumstances contained , which we are bound to believe as christians ; among which this is one of the chief , that god sent his son into the world for the salvation of mankind . to summ up all ; i desire those who after all this pretend that they are willing to believe as much as they can , and those who are liable to any suggestions of infidelity , to consider seriously with themselves , whether there can be a greater and more noble design , more becoming the wisdom , power and goodness of god to carry on , than that of rescuing mankind out of a miserable state , and putting them into a certain way of eternal happiness ? whether such a design must not be discovered in some particular age of the world , with all the circumstances relating to it ? whether that age were not the fittest of all others , wherein the most remarkable prophecies were to be accomplished , as to the coming of the messias , while the second temple was standing ? whether the difficulties as to human testimonies be not equal to all ages and things ? whether because it is possible for all men to deceive , it be reasonable to infer that all men are deceived ; and that there is nothing but illusion and imposture in the world ; and that all men lye and deceive for the sake of lying and deceiving ? but if there be a difference to be made between men and between testimonies ; then we are to examine the different characters of truth and falshood and give our assent according to them . and if after the severest examination we do not find sufficient reason to believe that god sent his son into the world for the salvation of mankind , upon such testimonies as are given of it , we must conclude all mankind to be made up of fraud and imposture ; and that there is no such thing as sincerity and honesty in the world ; or that if there be , it is not possible for others to discern it . which are such fatal reproaches upon human nature , that no one who pretends to any regard to it can be guilty of . for if they be universally true , they must condemn themselves ; if not , we must see some very particular reason why we should not rather think them deceived , than fix such an indelible blot upon the reputation of mankind . and surely it is a great advantage to the truth of religion to find , that it cannot be overthrown but by such methods , as equally overturn all truth and certainty , and that the faith of christianity stands not only upon the same bottom with the common faith of mankind . but if we reject such assurance as is offer'd us for the faith of the gospel , our infidelity cannot be the effect of reason and argument , but of a causeless suspicion and unreasonable mistrust of the best part of mankind . who have most firmly believed the truth of these things and have led the most holy and exemplary lives in hopes of a blessed immortality . and if the testimony of any persons deserves to be taken before others , it must be of such who could have no design upon this world but were resolved by faith and patience to prepare for a better . to conclude . for us who believe and own the truth of this great and fundamental article of the christian faith , we have something else to do than meerly to vindicate and assert it . this at some times is more necessary than at others ; and i heartily wish this were none of them . i am willing to hope the best of all who in such an age of infidelity have the courage and zeal to own the faith of this day ; viz. that god sent his son into the world in order to the making us for ever happy . and i hope none who profess themselves christians this day will ever be discouraged by the mocks and flouts of infidels so as to let go the anchor of their hope , or mistrust the foundation of their faith. it is as great a piece of wisdom to know when to believe , as when not to believe ; and it is as certain an argument of a weak mind to be always doubting , as to be over-forward in believing : for the soil must be very bad that can bear no foundation . but withall let us not flatter our selves only that we have a better faith than others . for how miserable will our case be , if we have nothing but a superficial faith ; and a sort of anniversary devotion . we can never thank god too much for the blessing of this day ; but god expects something more from us , than meerly the giving him solemn thanks once a year for sending his son into the world. we must endeavour to answer the end of god's sending him , i. e. to save us first from our sins , and then from the wrath to come . this is the method which god himself hath appointed , not barely from his own will and pleasure , but from the necessary order and reason of things . for , otherwise a man might be rewarded for doing amiss , and punished for performing his duty . if we therefore ever hope for any benefit by this coming of christ into the world , we must apply our minds to consider seriously on what conditions we may reasonably hope for salvation by him . can they think that christ came to so little purpose as to save men in their sins ? if that were to be hoped , there had been no need of his coming ; but it is a hard work indeed to save us from them . the guilt must be expiated , and the power subdued ; the former christ hath done ; but he expects , and with great reason , that we should deny ungodly and worldly lusts , and work out our own salvation with fear and trembling . finis . lately printed for henry mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall feb. . / . upon pet. . . a sermon preached before the king and queen at white-hall , march . / . upon ecclesiastes . . christian magnanimity : a sermon preached in the cathedral-church at worcester , at the time of the assizes , sept. . . upon tim. . . a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall , march . / on luke . . a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall , march . / . upon rom. . . the mysteries of the christian faith vindicated , in a sermon preached at st. lawrence-iewry , london , april . . upon tim. . . all six by the right reverend father in god , edward lord bishop of worcester . the bishop of worcester's charge to the clergy of his diocese , in his primary visitation , begun at worcester , sept. . . the unreasonableness of a separation from the new bishops : or a treatise out of ecclesiastical history . shewing , that although a bishop was unjustly deprived , neither he nor the church ever made a separation , if the successor was not a heretick . translated out of an ancient greek manuscript in the publick library at oxford . the case of sees vacant , by an unjust or uncanonical deprivation , stated : in reply to a treatise , entituled , a vindication of the deprived bishops , &c. together with the several pamphlets lately published as answers to the baroccian treatise : both by humphrey hody , d. d. fellow of wadham-college in oxford . the folly and unreasonableness of atheism demonstrated , from the advantage and pleasure of a religious life ; the faculties of human souls ; the structure of animate bodies , and the origin and frame of the world : in eight sermons , preached at the lecture founded by the honourable robert boyle esq in the first year . by richard bentley , m. a. chaplain to the right reverend father in god , edward lord bishop of worcester . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e ch . . . ch . . . . . ch . . . . rom. . ver . . psal. . . . . ● joh. . . christian magnanimity a sermon preached in the cathedral church at worcester at the time of the assizes, september . / by ... edward, lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) christian magnanimity a sermon preached in the cathedral church at worcester at the time of the assizes, september . / by ... edward, lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed for henry mortclocke ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -- sermons. bible. -- n.t. -- timothy, nd, i, -- sermons. christian life. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion christian magnanimity . a sermon preached in the cathedral church at worcester at the time of the assizes . september . . by the right reverend father in god , edward lord bishop of worcester . london , printed for henry mortclocke at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . . to my honoured friends , robert berkely , esq high-sheriff of the county of worcester , and the gentlemen of the grand-jury . gentlemen , it is at your request , that i publish this sermon , which you were pleased to think might be usefull to others , as well as to those who heard it . and i could not deny the first request that was made to me by the gentlemen of this country , in which i have found so much civility and kindness . i thank god , i came hither with no other intention but to do as much good as i could ; and i hope i shall always pursue that design with a sincere and vigorous mind , as far as i have health and opportunity . i thought i could not do my duty at this time , without representing the evil and mischief of some very unseasonable heats and animosities , among those who pretend to the same common interest , as to religion and laws , which are the most certain standard of our publick good ; and none , but such as are enemies to it , can understand it otherwise . may god almighty bless this country and the whole nation , with a hearty zeal and concernment for it . i am , gentlemen , your faithfull servant for the best ends , e. wigorn . worcester , sept. ▪ . a sermon preached at the assizes at worcester , september . . tim . i. . for god hath not given us the spirit of fear , but of power , and of love and of a sound mind . if we look into the scope and design of this epistle , we shall find s. paul at the time of writing it , under more than ordinary apprehensions of the sad condition of the christian church . as to himself , he had great satisfaction in the particular care of divine providence towards him : for , god had not onely formerly delivered him out of many persecutions ; but had lately rescued him out of the mouth of the lion , i. e. from a great and imminent danger . and though he foresaw , that the time of his departure was at hand ; yet that was so far from giving him any trouble , that he had the comfort of a good conscience in looking back ; i have fought a good fight , i have finished my course , i have kept the faith ; and in looking forward , henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness , which the lord the righteous iudge shall give me at that day . but all his dissatisfaction did arise from looking about him ; for without were fightings , and within were fears . the persecutions abroad were indeed so sharp and severe , that none could keep a good conscience without a share in them ; which makes him say , yea , and all that will live godly in christ iesus shall suffer persecutions . but this was not that which troubled him most ; for there were two things which seem to have made a deep and sad impression upon his mind . ( . ) he observed a great coldness and indifferency among some who pretended a mighty zeal for the common interest of their religion before . of this he gives a strange instance in his own case . at my first answer , saith he , no man stood with me , but all men forsook me ; i pray god it be not laid to their charge . they might think it prudence and caution at such a dangerous time , but the apostle certainly thought it a fault , or else he would never have pray'd that it might not be laid to their charge . something might be said in excuse of those who were so near danger ; but what can be said for the general coldness of those at a distance ? this thou knowest , that all they which are in asia be turned away from me . a sad consideration to timothy , who was entrusted by him with the particular care of those in asia ! for , what comfort could he hope for among them , who were turned away from s. paul ? such a defection as this must needs bring great dishonour to religion , as well as dissatisfaction to him . ( . ) he observed a busie sort of seducers , who were crept in among them ; who were crafty , restless and designing men ; such as could not compass their own ends without taking upon them a pretence of zeal for religion . they were men of as ill tempers as we can well imagine men to be ; they were lovers of themselves , covetous , boasters , proud , &c. but he concludes their character with what one would have least expected from such a sort of men , that they had a form of godliness . they were such painted sepulchres that made a more than ordinary shew and appearance , but within there was nothing but rottenness and corruption . men who pretended to religion without vertue ; and hoped to be accounted godly without any real goodness . they made a great shew of zeal about some things , and were industrious in gaining proselytes ; for which end they crept into houses , &c. but whatever they pretended , their own interest lay at bottom ; supposing that gain is godliness ; and they were so far from any hopes of amendment , that s. paul gives that dreadfull character of them , that they waxed worse and worse , deceiving and being deceived . and what now should timothy do under such a complication of ill circumstances ? should he onely stand still and see which way things would go ? or should he give way to despondency and sink under the burthen of his fears ? no , s. paul , although at a distance , and a prisoner , yet thinks fit to rouse , to animate , to incourage him ; and not onely to put him in mind of the gift of god which was in him ; but of that spirit and temper , which true christianity possesses mens minds with . for god hath not given us the spirit of fear , but of power , of love and of a sound mind . which words may be considered two ways : i. with respect to difficulties and troubles in the world ; and so it is not a spirit of fear , but of power . some render it spiritum timiditatis , a timerous , pusillanimous spirit ; which is apt to be dejected with fears , so as not to have courage and resolution enough to do ones duty for fear of danger ; and a spirit of power is that which supports and bears up the mind under a prospect of difficulties , so as not to be hinder'd thereby from that duty which lies upon us . ii. with respect to the humours and passions of men ; and so it is a spirit of love and of a sound mind : not a peevish , froward , exasperating , provoking spirit , but a spirit of love ; not a turbulent , seditious , unruly spirit , but of a sound mind . i. with respect to difficulties and troubles . which may be understood two ways : . as it may relate to such as s. paul and timothy ; we have not received , i. e. we that have an apostolical spirit given to us . . as it may relate to all christians ; we that own christ sincerely and truely have not received , &c. ( . ) i shall consider the words with respect to the apostolical spirit ; because this day we commemorate one of them , ( s. matthew . ) those who had the apostolical office committed to them , ( whether primarily by christ himself , or secondarily by the apostles , as timothy and titus and others ) had great need of this apostolical spirit . for , really , the difficulties were so great , which they were to go through , that no ordinary measures of courage and resolution would serve them . when men fight with enemies in the open field , there is a multitude combined together ; among whom there is abundance of noise and heat and examples ; and the hopes of present victory , and the shame and danger of running away ; which animate persons in a day of battel : but it is another kind of courage which is required to make men bear up against the malice and subtilty of the devil and of wicked men ; for here the combination is to all appearance much stronger on the worse side ; and if we are to judge of success by numbers , those who promote vertue and goodness could never bear up against their adversaries ; who were sure to carry it by the poll. there were among the heathens some few great men , who endeavour'd to reform the vices of mankind : but , alas ! what poor success had they in their attempts this way ? although they wanted neither wit , nor learning , nor address to carry on this noble design ; such as socrates at athens and epictetus at rome , and some others , who lived agreeably to their doctrine ; yet how little effect had both their precepts and example on the rest of the people either at athens or rome ? socrates declared a mighty resolution rather to die than to say or do any thing unbecoming the station god placed him in ; and upon the prosecution of two malicious men , the prevailing party were resolved to try the experiment , and took him at his word . after which , his disciples durst not deal so plainly and openly as he had done ; and the artifice they were put to , lost the force of the best part of their philosophy ; which they so mixed with numbers and figures and abstracted speculations , that it became a mystery , instead of a plain design to reform the manners of men. the best and wisest of them seem to have taken more pains to satisfie themselves , than to have instructed others ; or if they did , they were some few chosen disciples , whom they initiated with as much care , as they were wont to do in their solemn mysteries . but the apostles undertook to reform the world , as to two things , which mankind are the hardest brought off from , and those are idolatry and vice. and they went plainly and roundly to work , which men can the least bear ; as we see by the persecutions they underwent almost in every place assoon as their design was understood . there was a general clamour against them as the disturbers of mankind , as those who turned the world upside down ; which in some sense was true , but not as they meant it with respect to order and government . but when men have no mind to be reformed , they must have some terms of reproach to fasten upon those who go about to do it . it being natural for them to put pictures of devils on those , whom they have a mind to execute . and when they undeavour'd to convince them of their immoralities , they were very impatient ; of which we have a clear instance in s. paul's preaching to felix concerning righteousness and temperance and iudgment to come : which were excellent subjects , but they went too near him ; he was too much concerned , to be willing to hear any more of them . the discourse of s. paul had too much force in it for him to bear it any longer ; for it caused such a disorder in his mind as affected his body , for , felix trembled : and then he thought it best to dismiss him to a more convenient season , which never came , that we reade of . which shews , how much more willing men are to continue in their faults , than to hear them reproved in order to amendment . am i therefore become your enemy , saith s. paul , because i tell you the truth ? no doubt of it : for , no truths can be so uneasie and provoking as those which gaul the consciences of men . the false teachers whom s. paul complains so much of , were sensible of the inconveniencies which follow'd plain truth ; and therefore , to avoid persecution , they so mixed and adulterated the doctrine of the true apostles , that it lost its main force and efficacy . and although by their shifts and compliances with iews and gentiles , they escaped the hard usage which others underwent ; yet the effect of it was , that their doctrine took no deep rooting in the world : for , in origen's time , a very inconsiderable number of their disciples were left . but though the plain simplicity of the gospel met with persecutions on all hands ; yet by the undaunted courage of the preachers of it , the more it was opposed , the more it prevailed ; and at last triumphed over its greatest persecutors . ( . ) these words may be understood with respect to all christians ; and so they shew what the temper and spirit of christianity is , where it hath its due and proper effect upon mens minds . the moralists speak much of an excellent vertue , which they call magnanimity : which implies such a greatness of mind , that it carries a man on in doing what becomes him , without being discouraged by the fears of what may befall him in it . and this our saviour doth suppose to be so attainable by all his disciples , that he requires it from them . fear not them which can kill the body , but are not able to kill the soul ; or be not afraid of them that kill the body , and after that have no more that they can do . i. e. govern your fears by the consideration of another world and not of this . but is this possible , to be rid of our fears as to this world ? it may be some heroical minds may attain to this ; or those on whom god bestows the extraordinary gifts of his spirit : but can any by the common measures and assistances of grace reach to it ? fear is a natural and violent passion ; which is not easily dissembled , much less cured ; and the weaker any are , as to mind or body , the more they are subject to the power of it . there are some constitutions by reason of their dark and confused and melancholy apprehensions of things , can never get out of the labyrinth of their own fears . and where suspicions and jealousies find an easie entertainment , it is not possible to cure such persons fears ; for they are afraid of all possible things . such i must exclude as labouring under a disease of imagination ; as we do those who are under a feaver ; and for whose vnreasonable fears i know no better cure than there is of madness , which is to bring the persons to the use of reason as well as we can ; and if reason doth not cure them , nothing else will. but let us suppose the fears reasonable , i. e. such as considering the state of the world a prudent man may justly apprehend ; is it not possible to master these fears ? not to cure our apprehension when it is reasonable , but to take care , that it do not torment and disquiet our minds ; but especially that it do not hinder us from doing our duty . and this is that spirit of christian magnanimity which i design to speak of ; and to make the matter as clear as i can ; i shall , ( . ) enquire into those things which the nature of magnanimity requires in general . ( . ) shew the particular measures of it according to christianity . ( . ) consider the possibility of attaining it , and the means in order to it . ( . ) as to magnanimity in general ; it is not so much any one vertue , as a result from several put together ; and especially these , ( . ) integrity of mind : which implies these things . . a freedom from any mean and sinister ends in what we do . aristotle , who considered the nature of moral vertues , as well as any man , saith , there can be no magnanimity without simplicity and truth . and cicero saith , men of courage and magnanimity , are men of simplicity and truth , and not given to tricks . it is the sense of its own weakness which disposes any living creature to craft and cunning : the lion knows his own strength and despises it ; the fox is sensible he hath not strength enough for his own security , and therefore tries all other ways to compass his end. a spirit of magnanimity is above all little arts and shifts , which tend onely to some mean and pitifull end , not worthy to be regarded . men of artifice and design may think it weakness and folly ; but it is really a greatness of mind which makes a good and wise man despise such things as unbecoming that true greatness which lies in a generous integrity : which cunning men can no more reach to , even when they affect it , than an actor upon a stage can the true greatness of a prince . . sincere and unaffected goodness . which is that , which aristotle calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and makes absolutely necessary to magnanimity . the first thing in the character of a good man among the moralists is , that he be inwardly so ; not taking upon him the appearance and shew of vertue for the sake of others ; but forming his mind and temper according to the principles and rules of it . and when he hath done this , the whole course of his actions will be agreeable thereto : he will not onely be just and temperate , but kind and obliging , ready to do good to all , according to his circumstances ; and behaving himself under all , as becomes a good man. ( . ) there must not onely be integrity , but courage and resolution ; without which , in difficult times , it is impossible to maintain integrity . i do not by this mean any sudden and violent heats , which rather shew the greatness of the passions than of the mind ; but a calm and sedate courage , which exceeds the other , as a man of true valour doth one that is rash and fool-hardy . the latter may do bolder things than the other ; but none of the moralists allow it to be true fortitude ; for that must be guided by reason and discretion . the bold and daring man never considers what he doth ; but he is carried on by a sudden and violent impetus , or such an agitation of spirits , that suffer him not to think ; but on he goes , and if he meets with success , it is more owing to his passion and heat , than to his wisdom or courage . violent and furious heats ( although under a pretence of zeal for religion ) are like the furious onsets of undisciplined souldiers , which do more mischief by their want of order , than they do good by unseasonable courage . true courage must be a regular thing ; it must have not onely a good end , but a wise choice of means ; and then the courage lies in the vigorous pursuit of it : not being disheartned by difficulties , nor giving over through despondency or disappointments . ( . ) there must be an indifferency of mind , as to the event of doing our duty . not a perfect indifferency , which human nature is hardly capable of ; but such as keeps a mans mind firm and constant so as not to be moved from the dictates of a well-satisfied conscience by the motives of this world. it was a remarkable saying of socrates , which antoninus takes notice of , that man , saith he , is of no value , who regards any thing so much as doing his duty . it is not whether a man lives or dies , but whether what he doth be just or unjust , whether it becomes a good man to do it , or not , which he is to look after . if thou canst not find any thing in life , saith that excellent emperor himself , better than iustice and truth , a sound mind ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the word here used ) and a discreet courage ; then make this thy great business and apply thy self to it with all thy heart . let neither popular applause , nor power , nor riches , nor sensual pleasure draw thee off front it . choose that which is best and pursue it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with simplicity of mind and the free inclination of thy will. but the roman orator goes beyond them , when he saith , that nothing argues so mean and narrow a mind , as the love of riches ; nothing savours more of a great mind , than to contemn them ; and if men enjoy them to bestow them in beneficence and liberality . and again , to value iustice and honesty and kindness and liberality above pleasure and riches and life it self , and the common good above ones private interest , argues a truely great mind , and is most agreeable to human nature . these things i have mention'd , not onely to clear the nature of magnanimity ; but to shew what generous notions these heathens had concerning the practise of vertue and integrity , even when it was accompanied with losses and hardships for the sake of it ; and what a mean esteem they had in comparison of that great idol , which the world still worships , i. e. riches . ( . ) i now come to shew the true measures of magnanimity according to the christian doctrine . and that consists in two things : . in studying to please god above all things . . in choosing rather to suffer than to displease him . . in studying to please god above all things . aristotle hath observed that magnanimity hath a particular respect to honour : the question then is , whether it relates to what gets esteem and honour among men ; or , to that honour which comes from god. it 's true , the heathen moralists knew very little of this ; although aristotle once mentions the kindness which god hath for persons of the most excellent and vertuous minds , as being nearest of kindred to the gods. but this was not settled as a principle among them ; but it is the foundation of all true religion with us , that our main care ought to be to please god , and to value other things as they are most pleasing to him . the most refined atheists of this age confess , that the doctrine of the prophets and apostles is very pious and vertuous ; although they look on them as deceived in their imaginations . we take what they grant , viz. that the morals of christianity are very good ; but we say , that it is a heightning and improving of moral vertues to make them divine graces ; and not to practise them meerly as agreeable to reason , but as pleasing to god. those who allow a god , who is wise and powerfull , do confess , that no sacrifices are so pleasing to him , as a pious , devout and vertuous mind : but then they were to seek , as to the measures of piety and vertue . but that is the infinite advantage by the scriptures , which we enjoy , that by them we know what is most pleasing to god. he hath shewed thee , o man , what is good , and what hath the lord required of thee ; but to do justly , and to love mercy , and to walk humbly with thy god. when god sheweth us our duty , we have no longer any ground to dispute it ; especially , when it is so agreeable to the divine nature , and our own . what can we do better with respect to mankind , than to do justly and to love mercy ? what can become us more with respect to god , than to walk humbly with our god ? to walk with god , is to have a constant regard to him in the course of our lives ; thus enoch walked with god , and noah and abraham : and to walk humbly with him , is to maintain a due sense of our distance from him and our dependence upon him . and this humility of mind doth not take off from true magnanimity ; for , it is the magnanimity of christians that i am speaking of . the magnanimity of philosophers carried them beyond the due bounds of their dependence upon god ; for they presumed upon their own sufficiency , both as to the support of their minds under difficulties and the making themselves happy . in both which they were lamentably mistaken . but the humility of christians in depending upon god for assistance and happiness is so far from being inconsistent with magnanimity , that it is not to be had without it . for , saith s. paul , i can do all things . can any thing be said greater than that ? but how ? through christ which strengtheneth me . and this dependence upon god for his grace is no more inconsistent with magnanimity , than a favourites greatness is with his duty and service to his prince . the christians magnanimity lies in having but one to please ; but such a one , as is the greatest , the wisest , the happiest being in the world. . but if he cannot please god and the world together , then this magnanimity carries him rather to choose suffering under the world's displeasure , than to displease god. this seems a hard choice ; but there would be no magnanimity without difficulty . it may please god , that our duty and interest may lye together , and then it is folly and humour to choose to suffer when we need not . where there is true magnanimity in suffering , there is an impartial and prudent weighing and ballancing all circumstances together , before there can be a just resolution of suffering . and a mans courage in suffering depends very much upon the motives induced him to it ; which every mans conscience must judge of . but there are two sorts of sufferings magnanimity may shew it self in : ( . ) the necessary and unavoidable accidents and calamities of life . ( . ) the voluntary preferring a suffering condition rather than sinning against god. ( . ) as to the common accidents of life . it is observed by the moralists , that it is a harder thing to bear things that are troublesome , than to abstain from things that are pleasant : the sense of pain and suffering being much more uneasie , than the forbearing what is delightfull ; which is onely crossing a natural inclination . and though many persons choose rather to yield to their vicious inclinations than to avoid the pains and diseases which follow them ; yet that is because they look on them as uncertain and at a distance , and hope they may escape them . but when it is certain and present , human nature is very tender and sensible of pain and shrinks from it ; and requires inward courage to support it self under it . it is observed by the roman orator , that a peculiar kind of courage is necessary for suffering pains and diseases ; for many that have been brave men in the field , yet could not virilitèr aegrotare , behave themselves like men when they came to be sick . the truth is , all mankind abhor suffering so much , that one of the great inducements to the study of morality of old , was to find out some antidotes against the common accidents of life . for they soon found there were some sufferings incident to human nature , which all the art and skill of the wisest men could never prevent . our bodies are continually subject to pains , to diseases , to corruption and dissolution . our estates to violence , fraud and misfortune . our houses and cities to flames , to earthquakes , to inundations . our friends and relations are all liable to the same calamities with our selves , and that makes our trouble the greater . what now should wise men do ? can they hope to stem the tide , and to turn back the stream ? no , that is too violent for them . can they raise any banks or sea-walls against them to keep them out ? all such are vain and fruitless . what then ? shall they strip themselves of all the comforts of life , that they may leave nothing to misfortune ? so some did , to no great purpose , unless they could shake off their passions too . but this doth not look like magnanimity , but cowardize ; not overcoming an enemy , but running away from him . by the same method , they must go naked to avoid robbery ; and live on the tops of mountains to escape a deluge . but some thought these things look'd most terrible at a distance ; whereas if they consider'd how common they were , they would learn to bear them better . but carneades said well , malevoli animi solatium est turba miserorum ; it is a kind of ill-natur'd comfort which one draws from the commoness of calamities . and after all , it is no real satisfaction to a mans mind , to think that so many suffer as he doth ; it is like the unnatural pleasure of revenge , which one man takes in anothers pain . there is one thing it serves well for , and that is to shew the folly of great impatience under such things which the rest of mankind bear . thus iulian in his epistle to amerius relates a story of democritus his dealing with darius upon the loss of his beloved wife . after several ineffectual ways of comforting him ; at last he asked him , whether bringing her to life would not put an end to his grief ? no doubt of it . but how should this be done ? let me alone for that , said the philosopher , if you will provide me all the things i shall desire in order to it . after great care taken in providing many things for him , darius asked him if he had all he wanted ? no , said he ; there is one thing more i must have , and you are the most likely person to furnish me with it . in short , you must get me three names to be put upon her monument of such persons who have gone to their graves without sorrow or trouble ; and you , said he , have very large and populous dominions , and no doubt if such a thing be to be had , you can procure it . darius was struck with this , and after some consideration said , he doubted he could not . why then , said the philosopher smiling , are not you ashamed to be guilty of so much folly as to be so exceedingly cast down under such a calamity , as though you were the onely person in the world that underwent it ? this was agreeable enough to his humour in exposing the folly of mankind ; which was a subject large enough for his whole life ; but he was too pleasant upon it . i do not deny but the moralists did find out some very usefull considerations to bear men up under the common accidents of life ; but those of greatest moment , were such as are much improved by christianity ; viz. the wisdom of providence , the usefulness of trials , the benefit of patience , and the expectation of a better state. ( . ) as to voluntary and chosen sufferings . we have in scripture several extraordinary instances of this kind of magnanimity ; such was abraham's leaving his kindred and country and going he knew not whither on god's command , and his readiness to sacrifice his son ; which argued an entire sacrifice of himself to the will of god. such was moses his choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of god than to enjoy the pleasures of pharaoh's court. such was the son of god's choosing to suffer for our sakes , with admirable resignation to the divine will ; and praying for his persecutors under the greatest agonies on the cross. such was the apostles resolution and courage , when they rejoyced to be accounted worthy to suffer for the sake of christ ; when they were more than conquerors in the midst of persecutions . and truely the magnanimity of suffering rather than sinning , was never so much shewn to the world as in the case of the primitive christians . there were some few heroick instances of suffering for truth among the heathens ; but they were no more to be compared with the numerous examples of the primitive church than the miracles of the vestal virgins were with those of the apostles . it could not but amaze the common sort of spectators of rome , who were wont to see the gladiators , ( who were either hired or condemned to that cruel entertainment of others with their blood ) to behold a sort of grave and serious persons expose themselves to so much torment and cruelty , when so small a matter as burning a little incense would set them free . this was a new spectacle to the world , and it could not but put them upon thinking what strange sort of philosophy this was , which inspired ordinary persons with such a magnanimity in suffering . they had never found those who pretended to philosophy among them very fond of suffering for the doctrine they taught . they rather liked the example of aristotle than socrates ; who when the people of athens were enraged against him , withdrew to chalcis ; and when he was upbraided with it , made a witty excuse , that he had no mind the city of athens should sin twice against philosophy . whereas the christians were so forward to suffer for their doctrine , that it was imputed as a fault to them ; and it appears by tertullian that some out-went the bounds of christianity in offering themselves too freely to it . this made such as antoninus and others impute all their sufferings to an invincible obstinacy and a sort of madness which possessed them : which had been easily confuted , if they would have had the patience to have examin'd the reasons and grounds of their religion , as they did the peculiar doctrines of the several sects of philosophers . but this is not all which christian magnanimity doth imply ; for it is not onely a spirit of power , but of love and of a sound mind . and so it hath ii. a respect to the humours and passions of men. and truely , there is such a variety and uncertainty in them ; so much folly and mistake ; so much prejudice and peevishness in some ; so much wilfulness and stiffness in others ; so little regard to the true interests of religion and vertue , under all the pretences to it ; that those who sincerely desire to promote them had need of magnanimity to bear them up against such humours and distempers of mens minds . aristotle hath well observed that magnanimity doth go beyond the consideration of dangers . it makes a man more ready to do kindnesses than to receive them ; and to forget injuries . i add , and to forgive them ; for else , it is rather want of memory , than magnanimity . it is well he adds one thing , viz. that he that hath magnanimity is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , contented within himself ; so he had need to be ; for he will find very little satisfaction abroad , especially in an age when sincerity is almost lost : when men have used themselves to so much hypocrisie and dissimulation with god and man , that they can zealously pretend to love what they would be glad to ruine , and cry up peace and unity onely to get an opportunity to destroy them . but still true magnanimity keeps a mans own mind at ease , and makes him to govern himself , as the same philosopher observes , with due temper and moderation in all things . such a one is not onely easie to himself , but to all others , as far as is consistent with his duty . for a mind truely great , hath nothing of bitterness , or sowreness ; peevishness , or ill will to the rest of mankind . all malice and cruelty argue a mean and base spirit . the more noble and generous any tempers are , the more tender and compassionate they are , the more ready to oblige , the more easie to forgive , the more willing to be reconciled . but to be more particular , there are two things implied in this spirit of love and of a sound mind . ( . ) the making all reasonable allowances for the infirmities of others . it makes men to consider the prejudices of education ; the variety and weakness of most mens judgments ; the power of perswasion ; the bias of parties ; and the shame and reproach which persons undergo that break off from them , after they have been once ensnared by them . on these accounts it makes them rather pity than triumph over the follies of mankind . there are two things which a great mind doth most abhor in religion , and are most directly contrary to a spirit of love and a sound mind ; and these are hypocrisie and cruelty ; which make men false to god , and enemies to mankind . these two often go together ; and although they are masked under a pretence of religion , yet there are no two things more opposite to the true spirit and design of it . s. iohn concludes that man to have no true love to god who doth not love his brother . he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen , how can he love god whom he hath not seen ? and we may argue the other way ; if a man doth not love god , how can he love his brother ? when the love of god is the best foundation for charity and kindness to our brethren ; who were at first made after the image of god , and have it again renewed in them by the power of divine grace in righteousness and true holiness . and even where that doth not appear , yet there is a tenderness and compassion due to mankind , as far as is consistent with the order and government of the world. ( . ) the spirit of love and of a sound mind , consists in laying aside private animosities and heats for a publick and general good. that is a thing too great and too sacred , to be exposed and ridiculed , as though it were onely a popular pretence for faction and sedition . whereas nothing is more directly opposite to it ; for therefore it is called faction and sedition , because it is against it . if it hath been abused by men of ill minds , so have the best things in the world ; but they do not lose their nature and excellency by it . if there be not such a thing as a common good , whence comes any mans obligation to preserve order and government , and to seek the safety and welfare of his country , although it may be to the hazard of his own life ? if there be such a thing , it deserves our regard in the first place , and we ought to lay aside all prejudices , and mutual animosities and the interests of particular parties , and heartily to promote that which is our true common interest , as we are english men and protestants of the church of england ; which is a great and considerable part of the christian church , and the chief of the reformation . it is hard for any not to see that the whole protestant interest lies at stake ; and that the preservation of it depends very much on our conduct and union at this time . but if we find any to be humoursome and peevish , any to struggle more for the interest of a party to make it uppermost , than for our common good , although it be a very sad consideration and bodes very ill to us all ; yet we have that poor comfort left us , that men were as ill disposed even in the apostles times . for , saith s. paul , ( at a time when one would have thought they should have been much better inclined ) all men seek their own , not the things which are iesus christs . i hope it cannot be said of all now ; but i fear it is so true of too many , that it is one of the worst symptoms of the present state of our affairs . and that which makes it more deplorable is , that some men have entertained such suspicion and jealousie of each other , that he that goes about to reconcile them , instead of making them friends , is look'd on as a common enemy . i am afraid there is not sincerity and integrity enough left to be a foundation for uniting several parties among us ; at least there wants an opinion of it . and as long as there are such mistrusts and jealousies , the greatest integrity is so far useless . some learned and good men have been of late apt to perswade themselves and others , that the glorious and happy times of the church are coming on ; i could be glad to be of their opinion ; for it is a comfortable thing to a man who travels in an ill road and with bad company , whom he is perpetually afraid of , to see at a distance a pleasant and safe country , where he shall be rid of his fears and dangers . but i confess , i cannot much please my self with such thoughts , till i see the tempers of mens minds begin to change towards one another . if i could once see the spirit of love and a sound time prevail among us ; if men would be contented to sacrifice their humours and piques to the publick interest ; in short , if there were any hopes men would be wise and good , there were then a great foundation for hope , that all things would be settled among us , so as to continue for succeeding generations . but if men will persist in their own wilfull humours ; if they had rather all should perish , than they not compass their own ends ; we need no foreign enemies to come in upon us , we shall soon come to that height of animosity , as to bite and devour one another ; and then it is an easie inference , that we shall be consumed one of another . i am far from thinking our case desperate ; for i hope men have not lost all their sense and zeal for our common interest ; but if mens heats and passions increase and grow fiercer , a man needs not pretend to prophecy to foretell what the dreadfull consequence will be . the true spirit of religion seems to be buried in mens warm contentions about it ; and some have pretended to a sort of zeal without conscience , to religion without faith , and to scruples without common honesty . if ever god designs to doe us good , there must be a great alteration in mens tempers and manners . we must have more sincerity and integrity among us ; the want of which hath caused such a general mistrust of one another ; that if faith were to save the nation , i am afraid there is hardly enough left in it . and it looks like one of the symptoms of the day of judgment upon us : for , if the son of man should come , he would hardly find faith upon earth . but instead of discoursing of magnanimity , i am sensible i have run into the object and reason of our fears . but therefore to conclude all , i shall speak briefly to the last particular , which was , ( . ) to consider what arguments and means there are to support us against our fears ; or to attain to that christian magnanimity i have been discoursing of . and there are two great arguments which christianity doth particularly recommend to us . . let things go as ill as we can fear in this world ; if we are sincere christians , there is a far better state to come ; to which we shall be admitted when we are once out of this troublesome and sinfull world. there will be no hurries and confusions , no jealousies and suspicions , no piques and animosities . the highest regions of the air are the most calm and serene ; all the clouds and storms and blustering winds are below and arise from the atmosphere . if our minds were more loose from the world we should be more at quiet : for , at the bottom , the considerations of this world make men so troublesome in it . it is honour or power or riches which make them so unquiet , and endeavouring to supplant and undermine one another . if men could learn to be content with that which they pretend was all they so long and so impatiently desired , there might be some hopes of seeing something like peace and unity among us : but if liberty be thought to signifie nothing without power , it is reasonable to suppose that power will signifie nothing , unless it be all in their own hands . and what can they imagine the rest of the nation will do ? will they suffer an established church , and such a one as ours is ( which i think an apostolical church , as to doctrine , worship and government , if there be any now in the world ) to be run down with the violent heats of some men , and look on as wholly unconcerned ? they are extremely mistaken in the temper of the nation who think so . but if men will not be quiet , when they have all they pretended to desire , what can we expect but further animosities will discourage our friends , animate our common enemies , and expose us all to confusion , if not to ruine . if men loved this world less and another better , they would be more quiet here , and be more carefull to prepare for that better state. if our conversation were in heaven , as it ought to be , with what contempt should we look down upon the busie designs , the restless cares , the vain hopes and the perplexing fears of the greatest part of mankind ? then we should have more peace and tranquillity in our minds while we live , and greater satisfaction when we come to die . for integrity and innocency will keep us most from giving disturbance to others , and from finding any in our own breasts . whoso hearkeneth unto wisdom , shall dwell safely and shall be quiet from the fear of evil. . we are assured that we are under the constant care of divine providence . the tranquillity of our minds in this world depends very much upon the esteem we have of providence and the trust we repose in god. what makes children pass their time without solicitous thoughts about themselves , but the confidence they have in the wisdom and care of their parents ? what makes passengers lie down at rest in a ship at sea , but because they trust to the conduct of their pilot ? we cannot alter the methods of providence by all our solicitude ; god will govern the world by his own measures and not by ours . the government is his ▪ the duty of submission is ours . let us not then be peevish and quarrelsome at what he doth ; but make the best use of any extraordinary instance of his providence which seems to be intended for our good , unless we turn it another way . but it is not enough to be meerly contented with providence ; but we ought to be active and usefull in our own places to promote the common interest ; and not to repine and murmure at what is necessary for the support of it . let us not torment our selves with fears of what may and what may not happen ; but let us commit our selves to god in well-doing as to our creator and preserver . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e tim. iij. . ch. iv . . ch. iv . . vers. . vers. . vers. . ch. iv . ▪ ch. i. . ch. iij. , , , . vers. . tim. vj. . tim. iij. . tim. i. . act. xvij . . act. xxiv . . gal. iv . ▪ matth. x. . luke xij . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . arist. de virt. & vitiis . itaque viros fortes , magnanimos , eosdémque bonos & simplices , veritatis amicos , miniméque fallaces esse volumus . off. l. . nicom . l. . c. . antonin . l. . §. . l. . §. . off. l. . mor. l. . c. . l. . mic. vj. . phil. iv . . aristot. mor. l. . c. . aug. . q. . epist. . tertull. ad scap. antonin . l. . §. . arrian . l. . c. . mor. l. . c. . joh. iv . eph. iv . . phil. ij . . gal. v. . pro. i. . the doctrines and practices of the church of rome truly represented in answer to a book intituled, a papist misrepresented, and represented, &c. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the doctrines and practices of the church of rome truly represented in answer to a book intituled, a papist misrepresented, and represented, &c. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], - , [ ] p. printed for w. rogers ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to edward stillingfleet. cf. bm. table of contents: p. [ ]-[ ] at end. errata: p. 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng gother, john, d. . -- papist misrepresented and represented. catholic church. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the doctrines and practices of the church of rome truly represented ; in answer to a book intituled , a papist misrepresented , and represented , &c. london : printed for w. rogers , at the sun over against st. dunstan's church in fleetstreet . . the doctrine and practices of the church of rome , truly represented , &c. an answer to the introduction . the introduction consists of two parts . i. a general complaint of the papists being misrepresented among us . ii. an account of the method he hath taken to clear them from these misrepresentations . i. as to the first ; whether it be just , or not , must be examin'd in the several particulars . but here we must consider , whether it serves the end it is designed for in this place , which is , to gain the reader 's good opinion of their innocency : not meerly because they complain so much of being injured , but because the best men in all times have been misrepresented ; as he proves at large in this introduction , from several examples of the old and new testament , but especially of christ and his apostles , and the primitive christians . but it is observable , that when bp. jewel began his excellent apology for the church of england , with a complaint much of the same nature , and produced the very same examples , his adversary would by no means allow it to have any force , being , as he called it , exordium commune , which might be used on both sides , and therefore could be proper to neither . and altho it be reasonable only for those to complain of being misrepresented , who having truth on their side , do notwithstanding suffer under the imputation of error ; yet it is possible for those who are very much mistaken , to complain of being misrepresented ; and while they go about to remove the misrepresentations of others , to make new ones of their own . and as the best men , and the best things , have been misrepresented ; so other men have been as apt to complain of it , and the worst things are as much misrepresented , when they are made to appear not so bad as they are . for evil is as truly misrepresented under the appearance of good , as good under the appearance of evil ; and it is hard to determine whether hath done the greater mischief . so that if the father of lies be the author of misrepresenting , ( as the introduction begins ) we must have a care of him both ways . for when he tried this black art in paradise , ( as our author speaks ) it was both by misrepresenting the command , and the danger of transgressing it . he did not only make the command appear otherwise than it was , but he did very much lessen the punishment of disobedience , and by that means deluded our first parents into that sin and misery , under which their posterity still suffers . which ought to be a caution to them , how dangerous it is to break the law of god under the fairest colour and pretences ; and that they should not be easily imposed upon by false glosses , and plausible representations , though made by such as therein pretend to be angels of light. but although the father of lies be the author of misrepresenting : yet we have no reason to think but that if he were to plead his own cause to mankind , he would very much complain of being misrepresented by them ; and even in this respect , when they make him the father of those lies which are their own inventions . and can that be a certain argument of truth , which may as well be used by the father of lies ? and the great instruments he hath made use of in deceiving and corrupting mankind , have been as forward as any to complain of being misrepresented . the true reason is , because no great evil can prevail in the world , unless it be represented otherwise than it is ; and all men are not competent judges of the colours of good and evil ; therefore when the designs of those who go about to deceive , begin to be laid open , they then betake themselves to the fairest representations they can make of themselves , and hope that many will not see through their pretences . if i had a mind to follow our author's method , i could make as long a deduction of instances of this kind . but i shall content my self with some few examples of those who are allowed on both sides to have been guilty of great errors and corruptions . the arrians pleaded they were misreprented , when they were taken for enemies to christ's divinity ; for all that they contended for , was only such a moment of time , as would make good the relation between father and son. the pelagians , with great success for some time ( and even at rome ) complained , that they were very much misrepresented , as enemies to god's grace ; whereas they owned and asserted the manifold grace of god ; and were only enemies to mens idelness and neglect of their duties . the nestorians gave out , that they never intended to make two persons in christ , as their adversaries charged them ; but all their design was to avoid blasphemy , in calling the blessed virgin the mother of god ; and whatever went beyond this , was their adversaries misrepresentations , and not their own opinions . the eutychians thought themselves very hardly dealt with , for saying there was but one nature in christ , they did not mean thereby ( as they said ) to destroy the properties of the humane nature , but only to assert that its subsistence was swallowed up by the divine ; and of all persons , those have no reason to blame them , who suppose the properties of one substance may be united to another . even the gentile idolaters , when they were charged by the christians , that they worshipped stocks and stones , complained , they were misrepresented , for they were not such ideots to take things for gods , which had neither life , nor sense , nor motion in them . and when they were charged with worshipping other gods as they did the supream ; they desired their sense might not be taken from common prejudices , or vulgar practices , but from the doctrine of their philosophers ; and they owned a soveraign worship due to him that was chief ; and a subordinate and relative to some coelestial beings , whom they made application to as mediators between him and them . must all these complaints now be taken for granted ? what then becomes of the reputation of general councils , or the primitive christians ? but as , if it were enough to be accused , none would be innocent ; so none would be guilty , if it were enough to complain of being misrepresented . therefore in all complaints of this nature it is necessary to come to particulars ; and to examine with care and diligence the matters complained of , and then to give judgment in the case . i am glad to find our author professing so much sincerity and truth without passion ; and i do assure him i shall follow what he professes : for the cause of our church is such , as needs neither tricks nor passion to defend it ; and therefore i shall endeavour to state the matters in difference with all the clearness and calmness that may be , and i shall keep close to his method and representations , without digressons , or provoking reflections . ii. but i must declare my self very much unsatisfied with the method he hath taken to clear his party from these misrepresentations . for , . he takes upon him to draw a double character of a papist ; and in the one he pretends to follow a certain rule , but not in the other , which is not fair and ingenuous . as to the one , he saith , he follows the council of trent , and their allowed spiritual books and catechisms : and we find no fault with this . but why must the other part then be drawn by fancy , or common prejudices , or ignorant mistakes ? have we no rule , whereby the judgment of our church is to be taken ? are not our articles as easy to be had and understood , as the decrees and canons of the council of trent ? i will not ask , how the council of trent comes to be the rule and measure of doctrine to any here , where it was never received ? but i hope i may , why our representations are not to be taken from the sense of our church , as their's from the council of trent ? if he saith , ●his design was to remove common prejudices , and vulgar mistakes ; it is easy to answer , if they are contra●y to the doctrine of our church , we utterly disown them . we know very well there are persons , who have so false a notion of popery , that they charge the rites and customs of our church with it : but we pitty their weakness and folly , and are far from defending such misrepresentations . but that which we adhere to , is the doctrine and sense of our church , as it is by law established ; and what representations are made agreeable thereto , i undertake to defend , and no other . but if a person take the liberty to lay on what colours he pleases on one side , it will be no hard matter to take them off in the other , and then to say , how much fairer is our church than she is painted ! it is an easy , but not so allowable a way of disputing , for the same person to make the objections and answers too ; for he may so model and frame the arguments by a little art , that the answers may appear very full and sufficient ; whereas if they had been truly represented , they would be found very lame and defective . . he pretends to give an account why he quotes no authors for his misrepresentations , which is very unsatisfactory , viz. that he hath described the papist therein , exactly according to the apprehension he had of him when he was a protestant . but how can we tell what sort of protestant he was ; nor how well he was instructed in his religion ? and must the character now supposed to be common to protestants , be taken from his ignorant , or childish , or wilful mistakes ? did ever any protestant that understands himself , say , that papists are never permitted to hear sermons which they ar● able to understand , ( p. . ) or that they held it lawful to commit idolatry , ( p. . ) or , that a papist believes th● pope to be his great god , and to be far above all angels , & c ? yet these are some of his misrepresentations , ( p. . ) did he in earnest think so himself ? i● he did , he gives no good account of himself : if he did not , he gives a worse ; for then how shall we believe him in other things , when he saith , he hath draw● his misrepresentations exactly according to his own apprehensions . it is true , he saith , he added some few points , which were violently charged on him by his friends : but we dare be bold to say , this was none of them . but let us suppose it true , that he had such apprehensions himself . are these fit to be printed as the character of a party ? what would they say to us , if a spanish convert should give a character of protestants , according to the common opinion the people there have of them ; and set down in one column their monstrous misrepresentations , and in another , what he found them to be since his coming hither ; and that in good truth he saw they were just like other men. but suppose he had false apprehensions before he went among them ; why did he not take care to inform himself better before he changed ? had he no friends , no books , no means to rectify his mistakes ? must he needs leave one church , and go to another , before he understood either ? if this be a true account of himself , it is but a bad account of the reasons of his change. . the account he gives of the other part of his character , affords as little satisfaction ; for although in the general , it be well that he pretends to keep to a rule , yet ( . ) he shews no authority he hath to interpret that rule in his own sense . now several of his representations depend upon his own private sense and opinions , against the doctrine of many others as zealous for their church as himself ; and what reason have we to adhere to his representation , rather than to theirs ? as for instance , he saith , the pope's personal infallibility is no matter of faith , ( p. . ) but there are others fay it is , and is grounded on the same promises which makes him head of the church . why now must we take his representation rather than theirs ? and so as to the deposing power , he grants , it hath been the opinion of several popes ( and councils too ) but that it is no matter of faith , ( p. . ) but whose judgment are we to take in this matter , according to the principles of their church ? a private man's , of no name , no authority , or of those popes and councils who have declared it , and acted by it ? and can any man of their church justify our relying upon his word , against the declaration of popes and councils ? but suppose the question be about the sense of his own rule , the council of trent : what authority hath he to declare it , when the pope hath expresly forbidden all prelats to do it , and reserved it to the apostolical sea ? ( . ) he leaves out , in the se●eral particulars , an essential part of the character of a papist since the council of trent ; which is , that he doth not only believe the doctrines there defined to be true , but to be necessary to salvation . and there is not a word of this in his representation of the points of doctrine , but the whole is managed as though there were nothing but a difference about some particular opinions ; whereas in truth , the necessity of holding those doctrines , in order to salvation , is the main point in difference . if men have no mind to believe their own senses , we know not how to help it ; but we think it is very hard to be told , we cannot be saved unless we renounce them too . and this now appears to be the true state of the case , since pius the th drew up and published a confession of faith , according to the decrees and canons of the council of trent , wherein men are not only required to believe their traditions as firmly as the bible , the seven sacraments , transubstantiation , the sacrifice of the mass , purgatory , invocation of saints , worshiping of images , indulgences , supremacy , &c. but they must believe , that without believing these things , there is no salvation to be had in the ordinary way ; for after the enumeration of those points , it follows , hanc veram catholicam fidem extra quam nemo salvus esse potest , &c. this is the true catholick faith , without which no man can be saved ; i. e. the belief of these things is thereby declared as necessary to salvation , as of any other articles of the creed . but it may be objected , the subscribing this profession of faith , is not required of all members of that church . to which i answer , that to make a man a member of it , he must declare that he holds the same faith which the church of rome holds : and this is as much the faith of the roman church , as the pope and council of trent could make it . and it is now printed in the roman ritual at paris , set forth by paul v. as the confession of faith owned by the church of rome . and therefore this ought to have been a part of the true representation , as to the doctrinal points ; but when he comes to the th head , he then owns , that unless men do believe every article of the roman faith , they cannot be saved , ( p. . ) and he that disbelieves one , does in a manner disbelieve all , ( p. . ) which may as well reach those who disown the deposing power , and the pope's personal infallibility , as us , since those are accounted articles of faith by the ruling part of their church , to whom it chiefly belongs to declare them ; and the former hath been defined both by popes and councils . ( . ) he never sets down what it is which makes any doctrine to become a doctrine of their church . we are often blamed for charging particular opinions upon their church ; but we desire to know what it is which makes a doctrine of their church ; i. e. whether frequent and publick declaration , by the heads and guides of their church , be sufficient or not to that end ? our author seems to imply the necessity of some conditions to be observed ; for besides the pope's authority , he requires due circumstances , and proceeding according to law , ( p. . ) but who is to be judg of these circumstances and legal proceedings ? and he never tells what these circumstances are . and yet after all , he saith , the orders of the supream pastor are to be obey'd , whether he be infallible or not . and this now brings the matter home ; the popes , he confesses , have owned the deposing doctrine , and acted according to it : and others are bound to obey their orders , whether infallible or not ; and consequently they are bound by the doctrine of their church to act , when the popes shall require it , according to the deposing power . but he seems to say , in this case , that a doctrine of their church is to be judged by the number ; for , saith he , there are greater numbers that disown this doct●●ne , ( p. . ) i will not at present dispute it ; but i desire to be informed , whether the doctrines of their church go by majority of votes , or not ? i had thought the authority of the guides of the church ought to have over-ballanced any number of dissenters . for , what are those who refuse to submit to the dictates of popes and councils , but dissenters from the church of rome ? the distinction of the court & church of rome is wholly impertinent in this case . for , we here consider not the meer temporal power which makes the court , but the spiritual capacity of teaching the church : and if popes and councils may err in teaching this doctrine , why not in any other ? i know there are some that say , universal tradition is necessary to make a doctrine of their church . but then no submission can be required to any doctrine in that church , till the universal tradition of it , in all times , and in all parts of the christian church , be proved . and we need to desire no better terms than these , as to all points of pope pius iv his creed , which are in dispute between us and them . ( . ) he makes use of the authority of some particular divines as delivering the sense of their church , when there are so many of greater authority against them . whereas , if we proceed by his own rule , the greater number is to carry it . therefore we cannot be thought to misrepresent them , if we charge them with such things as are owned , either by the general and allowed practices of their church , or their publick offices , or the generality of their divines and casuists ; or in case of a contest , with that side which is owned by the guides of their church , when the other is censured ; or which was approved by their canonized saints , or declared by their popes and councils , whose decrees they are bound to follow . and by these measures i intend to proceed , having no design to misrepresent them , as indeed we need not . and so much in answer to the introduction . i. of praying to images . in this , and the other particulars , where it is necessary , i shall observe this method ; . to give a clear and impartial account of the state of the controversy in as few words as i can . . to make some reflections on what he saith , in order to the clearing them from misrepresentations . as to the state of this controversy , as it stands , since the council of trent , we are to consider . . we must distinguish between what persons do in their own opinion , and what they do according to the sense of the divine law. it is possible that men may intend one thing , and the law give another sense of it : as is often seen in the case of treason ; although the persons plead never so much they had no intention to commit treason , yet if the law makes their act to be so , their disavowing it , doth not excuse them . so it is in the present , case ; men may have real and serious intentions , to refer their final , ultimate , and soveraign worship only to god ; but if the law of god strictly and severely prohibits this particular manner of worship by images , in as full , plain , and clear words as may be , and gives a denomination to such acts , taken from the immediate object of it ; no particular intention of the persons can alter that denomination , or make the guilt to be less than the law makes it . . there can be no misrepresenting as to the lawfulness of many external acts of worship , with respect to images , which are owned by them . but it doth not look fairly to put the title , of praying to images ; for the question is , about the worship of images : whereas this title would insinuate , as though we did directly charge them with praying to their images , without any farther respect . which we are so far from charging them with , that i do not know of any people in the world , who are not like stones and stocks themselves , who are liable to that charge . the pendets in the east-indies are fully cleared from it , by thevenot , as well as bernier . and it would be hard we should not allow the same to our fellow-christians . i do therefore grant what our author saith , viz. that all the veneration they express before images , whether by kneeling , praying , lifting up the eys , burning candles , incense , &c. is not at all done for the image , but is wholly referr'd to the things represented , which he intends to honour by these actions . but i hope now , it is no misrepresenting for us to say , that they do kneel , pray , lift up their eyes , burn candles , incense , &c. before their images ; which is all i charge them with at present . . to perform these acts before images , without a design to worship the images by them , is declared , by great divines of the church of rome , to be next to heresy . the case was this ; there were before the council of trent , several persons who lived in communion of that church , but by no means approved the worship of images , such as durandus , holcot , picus mirandula , and others . now these persons thought fit to comply in these external acts , but declared they intended not to worship the images , but the objects before them . since the council of trent decreed images were to be worshiped , this case hath been debated by the divines and casuists of greatest reputation among them ; and suarez saith , this way of durandus , is dangerous , rash , and savours of heresy ; and he saith further from medina , that it was victoria 's , opinion , that it was heretical ; but he adds , that his own opinion , that images were truly and properly to be worshipped , was generally received by their divines ; and therefore i need name no more . . it is granted by their divines and casuists , that the people in the worship of images may easily fall into idolatry . . if the worship do not pass from the image to the thing represented . and so aquinas himself determins , that no irrational creature is capable of worship , but as it hath respect to a rational being . but here lies the difficulty , how an extrinsical relation to an object of worship , where the thing is confessed to deserve none , can give any reason , for its being properly worshipped . but they all grant , if the worship stop at the inanimate part , it can be no other than the worship of stocks and stones . . if the worship be given to the image , which is proper to god alone . this bellarmin is forced to grant , because the evidence is so clear in antiquity , that the gnosticks were condemned for some worship which they performed to the image of christ. now , we cannot think that these gnosticks were such sots , as to take the image of christ to be christ himself ; and therefore whatever worship it was , it must be relative , i. e. given to the image for the sake of christ represented by it . . if the people believe any divinity to be in the images , or put any trust or confidence in them , then the council of trent it self owns such to be like the heathen idolaters . now , how shall it be known when the people believe divinity to be in images , but by some more than ordinary presence or operation in or by them ? by their having a greater opinion of one image than of another of the same person ? by their going long pilgrimages to certain images in hopes of relief , when they might easily cause images to represent at home ? and that such are no extravagant imaginations , is known to all who have heard of loretto , or compostella , or other places nearer home . i need not mention the complaints of polydore virgil , cassander , or wicelius to this purpose , who died all in the communion of the church of rome ; for the same is very lately complained of by a considerable person in that communion , who saith , the greatest part of the devotion of the people of italy , spain , and portugal , consists in prostrating themselves before images , and going in pilgrimage to them , and hoping for remission of their sins by so doing . and another very lately yields , that to avoid the peril of idolatry , to which , he saith , the people is evidently exposed by the use of images , it would be necessary to take them away from the altars , and by no means to have them allowed for the objects of religious worship . the question now is , whether the council of trent hath taken any effectual course to prevent these abuses ? if not , what misrepresenting is it to charge the abuses upon the doctrines and practices allowed by it ? the remedies prescribed by the council , are these ; . declaring that there is no divinity or vertue in them for which they should be worshipped ; and that nothing is to be desired of them , nor any trust or confidence to be put in them . . expressing their earnest desire , that if any abuses have crept in , they may be removed . but in the mean time the council decrees , the images not only to be useful to be set up in churches , but to have due honour and worship given them there , for the sake of those they represent ; as not only putting off the hat , but falling down before them . and the roman catechism declares , that this worship is very beneficial to the people , and so much is to be told them ; and that images are to be in churches , not meerly for instruction , sed ut colantur , that they may be worshipped . but what could the council do more , than to desire all abuses may be taken away ; and is it not them the fault of others , and not of the council if they be not ? i grant , the council doth desire abuses may be taken away , if any such be ; but then it enumerates those abuses , in heterodox images , in making gain of images , in painting them too wantonly ; but besides , it doth say , that all superstition be removed in the sacred use of images ; but it doth not say in the worship of them ; and so it may relate to magick and divination . but that the council could not prevent , or design to prevent the abuses mention'd in the worship of images , will appear by these things . . the council of trent allows the highest relative worship to be given to them ; it setting no bounds to it , so it be for the sake of the prototypes . . it allows a worship to be given to the images themselves too ; for it confirms the second council of nice , which decreed an inferiour adoration to be given to them . . it disapproves no customs then practised among them in the worship of images ; which were all known , and by many complained of , both as pilgrimages to them , and the carrying of them about in procession , and the solemn consecration of them ; the form whereof is not only inserted , but inlarged in the new pontifical since the council of trent . and it is to be observed , that in the old pontifical , a. d. . there is no form for consecrating an image ; in that of paul the d , it is inserted , but out of durandus ; but in that of clement the th , it is put in more largely , and as authentically as if it had been always there . and is not this the way to reform the worship of images ? to come now to our author's reflections on the misrepresentation he saith hath been made as to this point . . a papist represented , believes it damnable to worship stocks and stones for gods ; to pray to pictures or images of christ , the virgin mary , or any other saints . these expressions are capable of a double sense , and therefore this is not fair representing . ( . ) to worship stocks or stones for gods , may signify two things . ( . ) to believe the very stocks and stones to be gods. and this we do not charge them with . ( . ) to give to images made of wood and stone , the worship due only to god ; and so by construction of the fact , to make them gods , by giving them divine worship . and if they will clear themselves of this , they must either prove that external adoration is no part of divine worship , ( notwithstanding the scripture makes it so , and all the rest of mankind look upon it as such , even jews , turks , and infidels ) or that their external adoration hath no respect to the images ( which is contrary to the council of trent ) or that divine worship being due to the being represented , it may be likewise given to the image . and how then could the gnosticks be condemned for giving divine worship to the image of christ , which bellarmine confesses ; and is affirmed by irenaeus , epiphanius , s. augustin , and damascen ? ( . ) to pray to images of christ , or the blessed virgin , may likewise be taken in two senses . ( . ) to pray to them , so as to expect to be heard by the meer images , and so we do not charge them with it . ( . ) to pray to them , so as to expect to be rather heard by themselves for praying to them by their images . and if this be not so , to what end are the prayers made in the consecration of images , for those that shall pray before them ? to what purpose do so many go in long pilgrimages to certain images , if they do not hope to be better heard for praying there ? but he goes on , . he keeps them by him indeed , to keep in his mind the memory of the things represented by them . and is this all in good truth ? we will never quarrel with them , if this be true representing . no , that he dares not say . but , . he is taught to use them , p. . but how ? by casting his eye upon the pictures or images , and thence to raise his heart to the prototypes . and is this all yet ? no. but , . he finds a double conveniency in the use of them . ( . ) they represent at one glance ; and men may easily make good reflections , as upon the sight of a death's head , or old time painted with his forelock , hour-glass , and syth . and will he undertake , that images shall be used in churches for no other end ? was the picture of old time ever consecrated , or placed upon the altar , or elsewhere , that it might be worshipped ? as the roman catechism speaks of their images . ( . ) they cure distractions ; for they call back his wandring thoughts to the right object . what is this right object ? the image , or the person represented ? and that must be either a creature , or god himself . if it be a creature , doth not this imply that it is made a right object of worship ? if god himself , how doth an image cure our distraction , in the worship of an infinite invisible being ; when the very image is most apt to distract our thoughts , by drawing them down from his divine and adorable perfections , to the gross and mean representations of an image . but are we yet come to the utmost use of them ? no. but , . he cannot but love , honour , and respect the images themselves , for the sake of those they represent . will this content them ? and will he promise to go no further ? it is hard to part upon terms of meer respect and decent regard , where there is no encroachment upon divine worship . and here we are at a stand . but he goes further . . and so he is come at last , to veneration before images . and is this all ? dares he deny veneration to images ? when the council of trent hath determined it . eisque venerationem impartiendam . what is this veneration before images only ? bellarmine hath a chapter on purpose to prove , that true and proper worship is to be given to images . and was he a misrepresenter ? suarez saith , it is an article of faith , that worship is to be given to them . but if the veneration be only before them , why are they consecrated , and set up in places proper for adoration ? but , . to satisfy any one that he is far from making gods of his images , he is ready to break them into a thousand pieces . what , a consecrated image ? dares he take a crucifix from the altar and tear it in pieces ? this doth not look like the love , honour , and respect he mentioned before , not to name veneration . and i am afraid this is a strain beyond true representing : yet at length he hath found some pretty parallels for the veneration of images themselves ; and so we are come at last to the main point . but this is not directly owned ; yet in the way of his representing , it is fairly insinuated by his parallels . . a christian loves and honours his neighbour , because he bears the image of god in his soul. but doth he therefore take him and set him before him when he kneels at his devotion , to raise his mind , and cure his distractions ? would he set him upon the altar , and burn incense before him , because of the image of god in him ? is there no difference between the object of christian love , and of divine worship ? nor between a spiritual invisible divine image in the souls of men , and a material and corporeal representation ? . we may kiss and esteem the bible , because it contains and represents to us god's word . but when we kiss and esteem the bible , we remember the second commandment is in it ; and we dare not break his law , when we pretend to honour his word . but we think there is some difference between reverence and respect to the bible , and falling down before an image . the circumstances of the one declare it to be meer respect , and a religious decency ; and if the other be not external adoration , we know not what it is . . a good preacher is loved , because he minds men of their duty . but what should we say to him that should therefore kneel down and say his prayers , and burn candles and incense before him , out of a respect to his good doctrine ? did s. peter , or s. paul like this , when men would have worshipped them ? a good preacher would tell them of their duty , as they did ; and take men off from the worship of any creature , animate or inanimate , and direct them to worship god alone , who made heaven and earth . ii. of worshipping saints . for the clear stating this controversy , these things are to be premised . . we do not charge them , that they make gods of dead men , i. e. that they believe the saints to be independent deities . for this our author confesses were a ●ost damnable idolatry . . we do not say , that the state of the church of rome , with respect to the worship of dead men , is as bad as heathenism . for we acknowledg the true saints and martyrs to have been , not only good and vertuous , but extraordinary persons , in great favour with god , and highly deserving our esteem and reverence as well as imitation ; whereas the heathen deified men , were vile and wicked men , and deserved not the common esteem of mankind , according to the accounts themselves give of them . and we own the common doctrine and advantages of christianity to be preserved in the church of rome . . we do not deny , that they do allow some external acts of worship to be so proper to god alone , that they ought to be given to none else besides him . and this they call latria ; and we shall never dispute with them about the proper signification of a word , when the sense is agreed , unless they draw inferences from it , which ought not to be allowed . to this latria , they refer not only sacrifice , but all that relates to it , as temples , altars , and priests : so that by their own confession , to make these immediately and properly to the honour of any saint , is to make a god of that saint , and to commit idolatry . . they confess , that to pray to saints to bestow spiritual or temporal gifts upon us , were to give to them the worship proper to god , who is the only giver of all good things . for else i do not understand , why they should take so much pains to let us know , that whatever the forms of their prayers and hymns are , yet the intention and spirit of the church , is only to desire them to pray for us , and to obtain things for us by their intercession with god. but two things cannot be denied by them . . that they do use solemn invocation of saints in places of divine worship , at the same time they make their addresses to god himself withal the circumstances of external adoration , with bended knees and eyes lifted up to heaven ; and that this practice is according to the council trent , which not only decrees a humble invocation of them , but declares it to be impiety to condemn mental and vocal supplication to the saints in heaven . . that they do own making the saints in heaven to be their mediators of intercession , but not of redemption ; although christ be our mediator in both senses . and upon these two points , this controversy depends . let us now see what our representer saith to them . . his church teaches him indeed , and he believes that it is good and profitable to desire the intercession of the saints reigning with christ in heaven ; but that they are either gods , or his redeemers , he is no where taught , but detests all such doctrine . there are two ways of desiring the intercession of others for us . . by way of friendly request , as an act of mutual charity ; and so , no doubt , we may desire others here on earth to pray for us . . by way of humble supplication , with all the external acts of adoration : and we cannot think s. peter , or s. paul , who refused any thing like adoration from men , would have been pleased to have seen men fall down upon their knees before them ; and in the same posture of devotion in which they were praying to almighty god , to put their names into the middle of their litanies , and so pray them then to pray for them . but how are we sure that their church teaches no more than this ? i have read over and over the council of trent , and the roman catechism about it , and i can find no such limitation of their sense there , where , if if any where , it ought to be found . the council of trent mentions both the prayers , and the help and assistance of the saints which they are to fly to . if this help and assistance be no more than their prayers , why is it mentioned as distinct ? why is their reigning together with christ in heaven spoken of , but to let us understand they have a power to help and assist ? for what is their reigning to their praying for us ? but i have a further argument to prove the council meant more , viz. the council knew the common practices and forms of invocation then used and allowed , and the general opinion , that the saints had power to help and assist those who prayed to them . if the council did not approve this , why did it insert the very words upon which that practice was grounded ? they likewise very well knew the complaints which had been made of these things ; and some of their own communion cried shame upon some of their hymns . wicclius saith , one of them , salve regina , &c. is full of downright impiety , and horrible superstition , and that others are wholly inexcusable . lud. vives had said , he found little difference in the peoples opinion of their saints in many things , from what the heathens had of their gods. these things were known , and it was in their power to have redressed them , by declaring what the sense of the council was , and that whatever forms were used , no more was to be understood by them , but praying to them to pray for them . besides , the council of trent , in the very same session , took care about reforming the missal and breviary ; why was no care taken to reform these prayers and hymns , which they say are not to be construed by the sense of the words , but by the sense of the church ? there was time enough taken for doing it ; for the reformed missal was not published till six years after the council , nor the breviary till four . in all that time , the prayers and hymns might easily have been altered to the sense of the church , if that were truly so . but instead of that , a very late french writer cries out of the necessity of reforming the breviaries as to these things ; wherein he confesses , many hymns are still remaining , wherein those things are asked of saints , which ought to be asked of god alone ; as being delivered from the chains of our sins , being preserved from spiritual maladies and hell fire ; being inflamed with charity , and made fit for heaven . in good conscience , saith he , is not this joining the saints with god himself , to ask those things of them which god alone can give ? and whatever men talk of the sense of the church , he confesses , the very forms , and natural sense of the words , do raise another idea in mens minds ; which ought to be prevented . but doth not the roman catechism explain this to be the sense of the church ? i have examined that too , with all the care i could , about this matter . and i cannot find any necessity from thence of putting this sense upon them . i grant in one place , where it explains the difference of the invocation of god and saints , it saith , we are to pray to god as the giver , and to saints that they would obtain things of god for us ; and then it adds , the forms differ , that to god is miserere nobis and audi nos ; that to saints is , ora pro nobis . very well ! and is there then no other form owned or allowed in the church of rome to saints besides this ? hold a little , saith the catechism , for it is lawful to make use of another form ; and that is , we may pray to saints too , ut nostri misereantur . and how doth this now differ from that to god , but only in number ? but it adds , that the saints are very pittiful ; then surely we are encouraged to pray to them for help and pitty . yes , saith the catechism , we may pray to them , that being moved with pity towards us , they would help us with their favour and intercession with god. but yet this doth not clear the matter ; for elsewhere the roman catechism attributes more to saints than meer intercession ; and we may pray to them for what is in their power : for where it undertakes to give an exact account of the reason of invocation● of saints and angels ; it there parallels them with magistrates under a king ; and saith , they are god's ministers in governing the church ; invocandi itaque sunt quod & perpetuo deum intuentur , & patrocinium salutis nostrae libentissime suscipiunt . what is this patrocinium falutis nostrae ? is it only praying and intercession with god ? that cannot be , for it instances presently in deliverances by angels , and jacob 's praying to the angel to bless him , and not meerly to intercede for him . but though this is spoken of angels , yet from hence it infers the invocation of saints too . but what need we insist more on this , since they do own the ministry of saints as well as angels , with respect to the church ; and do canonize saints for particular countries , as lately s. rosa for peru. and where there is such a particular protection supposed , what incongruity is it to interpret the form of their prayers , according to a doctrine so received and allowed ? but of this more under the next head. . he confesses that we are all redeemed by the blood of christ alone , and that he is our only mediator of redemption ; but as for mediators of intercession , he doth not doubt but it is acceptable with god we should have many . i would ask concerning this distinction , the question which christ asked concerning john's baptism , is it from heaven , or of man ? no doubt there may be such a distinction of mediators , if god please to make them . but who hath authority to appoint mediators with him besides himself ? is it not usurping his prerogative , to appoint the great officers of his kingdom for him ? would any prince upon earth allow this , viz. when he hath absolutely declared his pleasure , that his own son should present petitions to him , that others shall take upon them to set up masters of requests themselves ? can any thing be plainer in the new testament , than that god hath appointed the mediator of redemption , to be our mediator of intercession ? and that his intercession is founded upon his redemption . as the high priest's going into the holy of holies to intercede for the people , was upon the blood of the sacrifice of expiation , which he carried in with him . if there were no revelation in this matter , there might be some reason for it . but since the revelation is so clear in it , this distinction looks just like the socinians distinction of a god by nature , and a god by office ; which was framed on purpose to avoid the plain texts of scripture which called christ god. so doth this look as if it were intended to avoid that clear text , which saith , there is but one mediator between god and man , the man christ jesus . which is pre●ently answered with this distinction ; although there ●e not the least ground in that or any other text for it . yes , saith our author , moses was such a mediator for the israelites ; job for his three friends ; stephen for his persecutors : the romans were desired by s. paul to be his mediator , and the corinthians and ephesians ; so almost every sick person desires the congregation to be his mediator , that is , to be remembred in their prayers , p. , . but is there no difference between men praying for one another , and desiring others to pray for them here on earth , and an humble invocation of the saints in heaven to be our mediators of intercession with god there ? there is a threefold disparity in the case . . here upon earth we converse with one another as fellow-creatures , and there is no danger of our having an opinion thereby , that we are able to assist one another any other way than by our prayers . but the case is very different as to the saints in heaven , who by being addressed to there by such solemn invocation , may too easily be conceived to have the power of bestowing such blessings upon those who call upon them . . heaven is looked on by all mankind who direct their devotions thither , as the particular throne of god , where he dwells , and discovers himself after another manner than he doth upon the earth . and we are directed to pray to our father in heaven ; where he is represented as infinitely above all his creatures ; and the great concernment of religion is , to keep up the apprehension of this distance between him and them . now it is hardly possible to keep it up , if in the publick offices of religion , in the solemnest postures of devotion , with eyes lifted up to heaven , they do make addresses , both to god and to his creatures . . men are sure , when they pray to others on earth , to pray for them , that they do no more than they can justify in point of discretion , when they speak or write to those that can understand what their desire is ; but no man on earth can be certain that the saints in heaven can do it : for it is agreed they cannot do it without revelation , and no man can be assured there is a revelation ; and it is not reasonable to expect it ; for they pray to saints to pray to god for them ; and they cannot tell what they pray for , unless god to whom they are to prav , reveal to them what it is they must pray to him for . is it not then the better , the safer , the wiser way , to make our prayers to him , who we are sure is able to hear and help us ; and hath promised to grant what we ask in his son's name ? but there is no other name , either under heaven , or in heaven , whereby we can be saved , or our prayers accepted , but his alone . but our author saith , it is no part of his faith , how the saints in heaven know the prayers and necessities of such who address themselves to them , p. . but how comes it to be any part of his faith , that they know them ? however he doth not doubt but god can never want means of letting the saints know them , p. . and is this a sufficient ground for solemn invocation of saints ? god doth not want means to let the emperor of japan know a request any one here hath to make to him ; but is this a reasonable ground , for him at this distance to make it to him ? god doth not want means to let the pope know what a mighty service it would be to the christian world , to make a wise and truly christian-reformation in the church ; but would this be a ground sufficient for me at this distance , to make a speech to him about it ? i knew a man who understood not a word of latin , but yet would needs go hear a latin sermon : some asked him afterwards , what he meant by it ? and the chief reason he gave was much like this , god did not want means to let him know what the preacher meant . but after all , suppose god should make known to the saints what is desired of them ; i ask , whether this be sufficient ground for solemn invocation ? when socinus was not able to defend the invocation of christ himself , supposing that he could know our hearts only by revelation . and he had nothing material to say , but only that there was a command for it ; which can never be so much as pretended in this case . as to what he alleadges of the elders falling down before the lamb , having vials full of odours , which are the prayers of the saints , apoc. . . it must be strained hard to be brough● to this purpose , when both ancient and modern interpreters take it for a representation of what was done upon earth , and not in heaven . and if it were in heaven , prophetical visions were never intended for a measure of our duties . if the angels do pray for mankind , zech. . . doth it therefore follow we must pray to them ? but we say as the angel did to s. john , revel . . . in a like case ; see thou do it not : worship god. iii. of addressing more supplications to the virgin mary , than to christ. here is no need of farther stating the question ; this only relating to the extraordinary service of the blessed virgin. and therefore we are presently to attend his motions . he believes it damnable to think the virgin mary more powerful in heaven than christ , or that she can in any thing command him , p. . but in good earnest , is it not damnable , unless a man thinks the blessed virgin more powerful than christ ? suppose one should think her to have an equal share of power with christ ; is this damnable , or not ? is it not setting up a creature equal with god ? but what thinks he then of those who have attributed an universal dominion to her , over angels , men , and devils ? what thinks he not only of psalters , but of a creed , litany , and all the hymns of scripture being applied to her ? all which was done by a canonized saint in their church ; and the books printed out of the vatican manuscripts , and dedicated to the pope . and there we find something more than an ora pro nobis in the litany ; for there is parce nobis domina , spare us , good lady : and ab omni malo , libera nos domina : from all evil , good lady , deliver us . what thinks he of another canonized saint , who said , these two propositions are both true , all things are subject to god's command , even the virgin ; and all things are subject to the command of the virgin , even god. was this damnable in a canonized saint ? what thinks he of the noted hymn ? o felix puerpera nostra pians scelera jure matris impera redemptori ! was not this damnable ? and i have not only seen it in the old paris missal , but balinghem a jesuit saith , it was in the missals of tournay , liege , amiens , artois , and the old roman . i could produce many other passages cited by him out of the old offices to the same purpose ; but i forbear . but i cannot omit the approbation given to the blaspemous saying of s. bernardin by mendoza , ( who endeavours to prove the blessed virgin 's kingdom , not to be a metaphorical , but a true and real kingdom ) . and by salazar , another noted jesuit , who saith , her kingdom is as large as her sons . and we have lately seen how far this divinity is spread , for not many years since , this proposition was sent from mexico ; filius non tantum tenetur audire matrem , sed & obedire ; the son is bound , not only to hear , but to obey his mother . and is it still damnable for to say , she commands him ? but our author saith , what ever esteem they have for her , they own her still as a creature . is he sure of that ? what thinks he of another saying , which mendoza approves of , viz. of christ's saying to his mother , as thou hast communicated humanity to me , i will communicate my deity to thee . but it may be said , we are by no means to judg the sense of a church by some mens extravagant sayings . i grant it ; but i have something considerable to reply ; viz. that we may easily judg which way the guides of that church incline by this following passage . about ten years since a gentleman of that communion published a book , called , wholsome advice to the worshippers of the blessed virgin ; and the whole design of it , being printed in latin and french , was to bring the people of that church to a bare ora pro nobis to the blessed virgin. but this was so far from being approved , that the book was condemned at rome , and vehemently opposed by the jesuits in france ; and a whole volumn published against it . here i have reason to enquire , whether the virgin mary then , according to the sense of the church of rome , be only a mediatrix of intercession or not , since so large power and dominion is attributed to her ? and why should not her suppliants go beyond an ora pro nobis , if this doctrine be received ; as it must be , if the contrary cannot be endured ? for that author allowed her intercession , and prayer to her on that account ; but he found fault with those who said she had a kingdom divided with her son ; that she was the mother of mercy , or was a co-saviour , or co-redemptrix ; or that she was to be worshipped with latria ; or that men were to be slaves to her . now , if these things must not be touched without censure and no censure pass on the other books ; is it not ea●y to judg , which is more agreeable to the spirit of the guides of that church ? but we have a fresh instance of this kind at home , in a book very lately published ; permissu superiorum . there we are told in the epistle , that not only the blessed virgin is the empress of seraphims — the most exact original of practical perfection which the omnipotency of god ever drew ; but that by innumerable titles she claims the utmost duty of every christian , as a proper homage to her greatness . what can be said more of the son of god in our nature ? in the book it self she is said to be queen of angels , patroness of the church , advocate of sinners ; that the power of mary in the kingdom of jesus , is suitable to her maternity , and other priviledges of grace ; and therefore by it she justly claims a servitude from all pure creatures . but wherein doth this special devotion to her consist ? he names several particulars . . in having an inward , cordial and passionate value of the maternity of mary , and all other excellencies proper to , and inseparable from the mother of god. . in external acts of worship , of eminent servitude towards her , by reason of the amplitude of her power in the empire of jesus . and can we imagine these should go no farther , than a poor ora pro nobis ? he instances in these external acts of her worship . ( . ) frequent visiting holy places dedicated to her honour . and are not those her temples then ? which bellarmin confesses to be a peculiar part of the worship due to god. and the distinction of basilicae cannot hold here : because he believes the assumption of the b. virgin ; and he will not pretend to her honour is only for discrimination . ( . ) a special reverence towards images representing her person . ( . ) performing some daily devotions containing her praises , congratulating her excellency , or imploring her mediation ; and by oft calling upon the sacred name of holy mary , &c. . in having a firm and unshaken confidence in her patronage amidst the greatest of our inward conflicts , and outward tribulations ; through a strong judgment of her eminent power within the empire of jesus , grounded upon the singular prerogative of her divine maternity . i have not patience to transcribe more , but refer the reader to the book it self ; only the eighth particular of special devotion is so remarkable , that it ought not to be passed over , viz. entring a solemn covenant with holy mary , to be for ever her servant , client and devote under some special rule , society or form of life , and thereby dedicating our persons , concerns , actions , and all the moments and events of our life to jesus , under the protection of his divine mother , choosing her to be our adoptive mother , patroness and advocate ; and entrusting her with what we are , have , do or hope , in life , death , and through all eternity . and is all this no more than an ora pro nobis ? and it follows , put your self wholly under her protection . what a pitiful thing was the old collyridian cake , in comparison of these special acts of devotion to her ! but there are some extraordinary strains of devotion afterwards , which it is pity to pass over . as , i will ever observe thee as my soveraign lady , adoptive mother , and most powerful patroness ; relying on thy bowels of mercy , in all my wants , petitions , and tribulations of body and mind . could any thing greater be said to the eternal son of god ? and in the praise : vers. open my lips , o mother of jesus . resp. and my soul shall speak forth thy praise . vers. divine lady , be intent to my aid . resp. graciously make haste to help me . vers. glory be to iesus and mary . resp. as it was , is , and ever shall be . then follows the eighth psalm , applied thus to her . mary , mother of jesus , how wonderful is thy name , even unto the ends of the earth ! all magnificence be given to mary , and let her be exalted above the stars and angels . reign on high as queen of seraphims and saints ; and be thou crowned with honour , and glory , &c. glory be to jesus and mary , &c. in the next page , follows a cantique in imitation of the te deum . let us praise thee , o mother of jesus ! let us acknowledge thee our soveraign lady . let men and angels give honour to thee , the first conceived of all pure creatures , &c. i think i need mention no more ; only three things i shall observe , ( . ) that this is now printed permissis superiorum ; and we thank them for the seasonableness of it , in helping us in true representing , what their allowed doctrines and practices are . ( . ) that this is published english , that our people as well as theirs ; may be convinced how far we have been from unjust charging them as to such things as these . ( . ) that at the same time they plead for keeping the bible out of the hands of the people , wherein their discretion is so far to be commended , since the scripture , and this new scheme of devotion , can never stand together . there being not one word in the bible towards it , but very much against it ; and the psalms and hymns must be burlesqu'd to found that way . but what saith our author to their rosaries , wherein there are ten ave maries to one pater noster ; which is accounted a special piece devotion ; and great things are said of the effects of it by alanus de rupe , and many others . . as to the ave maries , he saith , there is no more dishonour to god in reciting the angelical salutation , than in the first pronouncing it by the angel gabriel and elizabeth . but it may not be altogether so pertinent . but doth he really think they said the whole ave maria , as it is used among them ? did the angel and elizabeth say , sancta maria , mater dei ? 〈◊〉 , or a pro nobis peccatoribus , nunc & in hora mortis nostrae ? if not , to what purpose are they mentioned here ? . as to the repetition , that , he saith , is no more an idle superstition , than david ' s repeating the same words times in the psalm . but what is this to the question , why more supplications to the blessed virgin , than to christ ? and not one word of answer is given to it . but alanus de rupe answers it roundly , because the blessed virgin is our mediatrix to christ , the mother of mercy , and the special patroness of sinners . this is indeed true representing . iv. of paying divine worship to reliques . for the right understanding this controversy , we are to consider , . that there is a due veneration to the bodies of saints and martyrs , allowed on both sides ; and there is an undue worship of them , which is disowned on both sides . the due veneration is , a religious decency to be observed towards them ; which lies in avoiding any thing like contempt or dishonour to them , and using all such testimonies of respect and decency , which becomes the remains of excellent persons ; provided we are satisfied of their sincerity , without having recourse to divine omnipotency to prove them ; which ferrandus the jesuit runs so much to , to prove the truth of many reliques , worshipped in the church of rome in many places at once . but that it is possible to exeeed in the worship of true reliques , even bellarmin confesseth , who says , that god took away the body of moses , lest the people should give divine worship to it . and st. jerom as hot as he was against vig●antius , yet he utterly denied giving any adoration to the reliques of martyrs . it seems then it is very possible to exceed that way . . the question then is , whether those acts of worship which are allowed in the church of rome , do not go beyond due veneration ? for it is unreasonable to suppose those who give it , to believe those reliques to be gods ; and therefore it must be such a worship as is given to them , supposing them to be only reliques of such persons . the council of trent decrees honour and veneration to be given to them , but never determines what is due , and what not : it forbids all excesses in drinking and eating , in the visiting of reliques ; but not a word of excesses in worshipping of them , unless it be comprehended under the name of superstition . but superstition lies in something forbidden , according to their notion of it : therefore , if there be no prohibition by the church , there can be no superstition in the worship of them . and if they had thought there had been any in the known practices of the church , they would certainly have mentioned them ; and because they did not , we ought in reason to look on them as allowed . and yet not only cassander complains of the great superstition about them ; but even the walenbergii lately confess , that the abuses therein , have not only been offensive to us , but to themselves too . but what saith our representer to them ? he believes it damnable to think there 's any divinity in the reliques of saints , or to adore them with divine honour . p. . but what is this adoring them with divine honour ? a true representer ought to have told us what he meant by it , when the whole controversy depends upon it . is it only saying mass to reliques , or believing them to be gods ? is there no giving divine honour by prostration , burning of incense , & c. ? nothing in expecting help from them ? yes , if it be from any hidden power of their own . but here is a very hard question : if a man doth not believe it to be an intrinsick power in the reliques , may a man safely go to them , opis impetrandae causà , as the council of trent saith , in hopes of relief from them ? is it not possible for the devil to appear with samuel's true body , and make use of the relique of a saint to a very bad end ? then , say i , no reliques can secure men against the imposture of evil spirits , who , by god's permission , may do strange things with the very reliques of saints . but god hath visibly worked by them , saith our author , by making them instruments of many miracles ; and it is as easie for him to do it now . p. , . this is the force of all he saith . to which i answer , ( . ) it is a very bold thing to call in god's omnipotency , where god himself hath never declared he will use his power ; for it is under his own command , and not ours . but there is no reason to deduce the consequence of using it now , because he hath done it formerly . and that they may not think this is cavilling in us , i desire them to read pere annat's answer to the jansenists pretended miracle at port royal , viz. of the cure wrought by one of our saviour's thorns . there he gives another account of such miracles than would be taken from us . but where he saith , it is as much for the honour of god's name to work such miracles now ; their own authors will tell him the contrary ; and that there is no such reason now , as in former times , when religion was to be confirmed by them ; and when martyrs suffered upon the sole account of the truth of it ; and therefore their reputation had a great influence upon converting the unbelieving world. ( . ) suppose it be granted , yet it proves not any religious worship to be given to them . for i shall seriously ask an important question : whether they do really believe , any greater miracles have ever been done by reliques , than were done by the brazen serpent ? and yet , altho that was set up by god's own appointment , when it began to be worshipped after an undue manner , it was thought fit by hezekiah to be broken in pieces . what now was the undue worship they gave to it ? did they believe the serpent , which could neither move nor understand , was it self a god ? but they did burn incense to it . and did that make a god of it ? suppose men burn incense to reliques ; what then , are they made gods presently ? suppose they do not , but place them upon altars , carry them in procession , fall down before them , with intention to shew the honour they do them ; are not these as much as burning a little incense , which could not signifie so much honour as the other do ? and it is hard then to make the one unlawful , and not the other . v. of the eucharist . there are two material points under this head which are to be examined , because he endeavours to set them off with all the advantage he can , viz. adoration of the host , and transubstantiation . i. of the adoration of the host. . the question is far enough from being , whether it be lawful to commit idolatry ? as our representer puts it . for the misrepresenter saith , that a papist believes it lawful to commit idolatry : and to clear this , our author gravely saith , he believes it unlawful to commit idolatry . pag. . as tho any men ever owned it to be lawful : which is , as if the question were , whether such a man committed adultery , and he should think to clear himself by saying , he believed it unlawful to commit adultery . . the question is not , whether christ may be lawfully adored by us in the celebration of the eucharist ; which we are so far from denying , that our church requires our receiving it in the posture of adoration . . the true question is , whether the body of christ , being supposed to be present in the host by transubstantiation , be a sufficient ground to give the same adoration to the host , which they would do to the person of christ ? and that this is the true state of the question , will appear by these things . . the council of trent first defined transubstantiation , and from thence inferred adoration of the host ; as is most evident to any one that will read the fourth and fifth decrees of the th session . nullus itaque dubitandi locus , &c. i. e. if transubstantiation be true , then adoration follows . it 's true , the sixth canon only speaks of christ being there worshipped ; but that ought to be compared with the first , second , and fourth canons , where the doctrine of transubstantiation is fully set down , as the foundation of that adoration . . the adoration is not fixed on the person of christ , as separate from the host , but as making one object of worship together with it . and so the council of trent declares in the sixth decree ; when it saith , the sacrament is never the less to be adored , because it was instituted to be received . this cannot be otherwise understood , than as relating to the sacrament : and so that whatever it be , must be granted to be the object of adoration . by the sacrament , saith cardinal pallavicini , is understood the object made up of the body of christ , and the accidents . the worship then being confessed to be adoration , which is due to god alone , and that adoration directed to the sacrament as its proper object ; the question now is , whether such a supposition in the sacrament , doth justify that adoration ? our author saith , he accounteth it most damnable to worship or adore any breaden god , or to give divine honour to any elements of bread and wine , p. . then , i say , by his own confession , if it be only bread , he commits idolatry ; for the adoration he cannot deny . but our representer loves ambiguous expressions , which to the people sound very well , but have no sincere meaning : for what is it he understands by his breaden god ? if it be that he worships a god which himself supposes to be nothing but bread , we do not charge him with it ; but if it be what we believe it to be , the substance of bread , but himself believes to be turned into the body of christ , then he cannot deny his adoration to be given to it . all that can excuse them is , the supposition ; and whether that will or not , is now to be consider'd . . if it be not true , themselves grant it to be idolatry . the testimonies of bishop fisher , and costerus , are so well known to the purpose , that i shall not repeat them . and catharinus , a divine of note in the council of trent , confesses it is idolatry to worship an unconsecrated host , altho the person , through a mistake , believes it consecrated . and he quotes st. thomas and paludanus for his opinion ; and gives this reason for it ; because christ is not worshipped simply in the sacrament , but as he is under the species ; and therefore if he be not so present , a creature hath divine worship given it . as those were guilty of idolatry , who worshipped any creatures of old , supposing god to be there , as that he was the soul of the world. they were not excused , saith he , that they thought they worshipped but one god ; because they worshipped him as present in such a manner , as he was not . and this book of his , he saith , in the review of it , was seen and approved by the pope's order , by their divines at paris . . if the bread were taken to be god , our author doth not deny it would be idolatry , for that were to worship a breaden god. yet here would be a mistake , and a gross one ; yet the mistake would not excuse the persons committing it from most damnable idolatry , as he confesses : why then should the other mistake excuse them , when they suppose the substance of the bread not to be there , but the body of christ to be under the species ? yes , say they , then no creature is supposed to be the object of worship . but when the bread is supposed to be god , it must be supposed not to be a creature . there is no answer to be given in this case , but that the bread really is a creature , whatsoever they imagined ; and if this mistake did not excuse , neither can the other . . of transubstantiation . three things our author goes upon , with respect to this . . he supposes christ's words to be clear for it . . he shews the possibility of it , from god's omnipotency . . he argues against the testimony or evidence of sense or reason in this case , from some parallel instances , as he thinks . . he believes jesus christ made his words good , pronounced at his last supper , really giving his body and blood to his apostles ; the substance of bread and wine being , by his powerful words , changed into his own body and blood ; the species only , or accidents of the bread and wine , remaining as before . the same he believes of the eucharist consecrated now by priests . this is a very easy way , of taking it for granted that the words are clear for transubstantiation . and from no better ground , to fly to god's omnipotency to make it good , is as if one should suppose christ really to be turned into a rock , a vine , a door ; because the words are every jot as clear , and then call in god's omnipotency , which is as effectual to make them good . i confess , these words are so far from being clear to me for transubstantiation , that if i had never heard of it , i should never have thought of it , from these or any other words of scripture , i. e. not barely considering the sound of words , but the eastern idioms of speaking ; the circumstances of our saviour's real body at that time when he spake them ; the uncouth way of feeding on christ's real body , without any objection made against it by his disciples . the key our saviour elsewhere gives for understanding the manner of eating his flesh ; and withal , if these words be literally and strictly understood , they must make the substance of bread to be christ's body ; for that is unavoidably the literal sense of the words . for can any men take this to be any thing but this bread , who attend to the common sense and meaning of words , and the strict rules of interpretation ? yet this sense will by no means be allow'd ; for then all that can be infer'd from these words is , that when christ spake these words , the bread was his body . but either christ meant the bread by this , or he did not ; if he did , the former proposition is unavoidable in the literal sense : if he did not , then by virtue of these words , the bread could never be turned into the body of christ. for that only could be made the body of christ which was meant , when christ said , this is my body . this seems to me to be as plain and convincing as any demonstration in euclid . which hath often made me wonder at those who talk so confidently of the plain letter of scripture , being for this doctrine of transubstantiation . but several divines of the church of rome , understood themselves better , and have confessed , that this doctrine could not be drawn out of the literal sense of these words ; as it were easy to shew , if it had not been lately done already . it is enough here to observe , that vasquez confesseth it of scotus , durandus , paludanus , ockam , cameracensis ; and himself yields that they do not , and cannot signify expresly the change of the bread and wine into the body of christ. for how can , this is my body , literally signify , this is changed into my body ? if that proposition were literally true , this is my body , it overthrows the change ; for how can a thing be changed into that which it is already ? . he believes christ being equal to his father in truth and omnipotency , can make his words good . we do not in the least dispute christ's omnipotency , but we may their familiar way of making use of it to help them out , when sense and reason fail them . and therefore cajetan well said ; we ought not to dispute about god's absolute power in the doctrine of the sacraments , being things of such constant use ; and that it is a foolish thing to attribute to the sacrament all that god can do . but we must consider what he saith against sense and reason . for the believing this mystery , he does not at all think it meet for any christian to appeal from christ's words , to his own senses or reason , for the examining the truth of what he hath said , but rather to submit his senses and reason to christ's words in the obsequiousness of faith. what! whether we know this to be the meaning of christ's words , or not ? and thus we shall be bound to submit to every absurd interpretation of scripture , because we must not use our senses or reason for examining the truth of what is said there . can any thing be plainer said in scripture , than that god hath eyes , and ears , and hands ? must now every man yield to this in the obsequiousness of faith , without examining it by principles of common reason ? and we think we are therefore bound to put another sense upon those expressions , because they imply a repugnancy to the divine perfections . why not then where something is implied which is repugnant to the nature of christ's body , as well as to our senses ? but the question about judging in this matter by our senses , is not , as our author is willing to suppose , viz. whether our senses are to be believed , against a clear and express divine revelation ; but whether the judgment of our senses and reason is not to be made use of for finding out the true sense of this revelation ? and we think there is great reason for it . ( . ) because we have no more certain way of judging the substance of a body , than by our senses . we do not say our senses go beyond the accidents ; but we say , our senses , by those accidents , do assure us of the bodily substance , or else it were impossible for us to know there is any such thing in the world. ( . ) because christ did himself appeal to the judgment of his disciples senses concerning the truth of his own body after the resurrection ; behold my hands and my feet , that it is i my self : handle and see , for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have . now we think we have reason to allow the same criterion which christ himself did about the very same body . unless he had then told his disciples , that there was to be another supernatural manner of existence of the same body , concerning which their senses were not to be judges . ( . ) some of the most important articles of the christian faith do suppose the judgment of our senses to be true . as about the truth of christ's body ; whether he had really a body , or only the outward accidents and appearance of a body : if he had not , he did not really suffer upon the cross , and so the sacrifice of propitiation there offered up to the father for the sins of mankind is lost . there was a great controversy in st. john's time , and afterwards , whether christ had any real body ? those who denied it , brought revelation for it ; those who asserted it , proved it by their senses , as s. john himself , that which we have seen , and heard , and our hands have handled ; &c. he doth not tell men , they must submit their sense and reason to the pretence of revelation ; but they ought to adhere to the judgment of their senses concerning the reality of christ's body . since therefore christ himself appealed to it , the apostles made use of it , without any caution or limitation , we have great reason to rely still on the judgment of our senses concerning the same object , viz. the body of christ. . but we must now consider his instances to overthrow the judgment of our senses and reason in this point . . he believes christ to be god , though to senses he seemed nothing but man. do we ever pretend to judg of christ's divinity by our senses ? how then can this be pertinent , when our only dispute is about judging his body , and the substance of bread and wine by them ? and yet the senses were of great use as to the proof of his divinity by the miracles which he wrought ? which if they had been like the pretended miracles in transubstantiation , could have convinced no man , because they could never see them . . he believes the holy ghost descended on our saviour , though senses or reason could discover it to be nothing but a dove . if there were no reason to judg otherwise , the judgment of sense were to be followed : but since the scripture declares it was the holy ghost descending as a dove , we have no reason to question that revelation . for we do not pretend that our senses are so far judges of divine appearances , as to exclude the possibility of god's assuming the shape and figure of his creature when he pleases , by moulding the substance of a real body into such a representation . thus we do not deny the possibility of an appearance of the holy ghost under bread and wine , if god thought fit , any more than under a dove ; and in this case we do not pretend that our senses can exclude the presence of a spirit under the elements ; but that is very different from the present case , for here the substance is supposed to be gone , and nothing but accidents remaining ; and no spiritual presence of christ is denied , but that of his body , the very same body which suffered on the cross. . he believes the man who appeared to joshua , ( ch . . . ) ; and the three men to abraham , ( gen. . ) were really and substantially no men , notwithstanding all the information and evidence of sense to the contrary , from their colour , features , proportion , talking , eating , and many others . and what follows from hence , but that spiritual invisible substances may be under the appearance of bodies , and that our senses cannot be judges of them ? which is not our question , but , whether bodies can be so present after the manner of spirits , as to lose all the natural properties of bodies ? and whether a material substance can be lost , under all the accidents proper to it , so as our senses cannot be proper judges of one by the other ? but our author seems to grant this , in a natural way of the existence of a body : but he saith , christ gives to his body a supernatural manner of existence , by which being left without extension of parts , and rendred independent of place , it may be one and the same in many places at once , and whole in every part of the symbols , and not obnoxious to any corporeal contingencies . this is to me a mystery beyond all comprehension by sense or reason ; and there is certainly a great difference between governing our understandings , and giving them up , as we must do if this doctrine hold good ; for it overthrows any fixed principles of reason in mankind concerning the nature and properties of bodies . for , . we must still suppose the body of christ to be the very same individual body which suffered upon the cross ; but if it have no extension of parts , and be reckoned independent upon place , it ceaseth to be a body . it is granted , that after a natural way of existence , a body cannot be in more places than one ; but let the way of existence be what it will , if it be a body , it must be finite ; if finite , it must be limited and circumscribed ; if it be circumscribed within one place , it cannot be in more places , for that is to make it circumscribed , and not circumscribed ; undivided from it self , and divided from it self at the same time . which is a manifest contradiction , which doth not depend only on quantity or extension , but upon the essential unity of a body . . if it be possible for a body to be in several places by a supernatural existence ; why may not the same body be in several places by a natural existence ? is it not because extension and circumscription are so necessary to it , that in a natural way it can be but in one place . then it follows that these are essential properties of bodies ; so that no true body can be conceived without them . . this supernatural existence doth not hinder the body's being individually present in on place : my meaning is this ; a priest consecrates an host at london , and another at york ; is the body of christ at london , so present there by virtue of consecration , as to be present at york too , by this supernatural existence : what then doth the consecration at york produce ? if it be not , then its presence is limited to the host , where the consecration is made ; and if it be so limited , then this supernatural existence cannot take off its relation to place . . the same body would be liable to the greatest contradictions imaginable : for the same body after this supernatural way of existence , may not only be above and below , within and without , near and far off from it self : but it may be hot and cold , dead and alive ; yea , in heaven and hell at once . . what is it that makes it still a body after this supernatural way of existence , &c. if it lose extension and dependency on place ? if it be only an aptitude to extension , when that supernatural existence is taken off , then it must either be without quantity , or with it . if it be without quantity , how can it be a body ? if with quantity , how is it possible to be without extension ? . this confounds all the differencs of greater and less , as well as of distance and nearness . for upon this supposition , a thing really greater may be contained within a less : for the whole original body of christ , with all its parts , may be brought within the compass of a waser ; and the whole be in every part without any distance between head and feet . . this makes christ to have but one body , and yet to have as many bodies as there are consecrated hosts . no , saith our author , this supernatural manner of existence is without danger of multiplying his body , or making as many christs as altars . p. . but how this can be , is past all human understanding : for every consecration hath its effect , which is supposed to be the conversion of the substance of the bread into the body of christ. now , when a priest at london converts the bread into the body of christ there , he doth it not into the body of christ at york , but the priest there doth it ; therefore the body of christ at london , is different from that at york ; or else the conversion at london would be into the body , as at york . but if not , what is the substantial term of this substantial change , where nothing but an accidental mode doth follow ? if there be any such term , whether that must not be a production of something which was not before ; and if it be so , christ must have as many new bodies , as there are consecrations . . this makes that which hath no particular subsistence of its own , to be the subject of a substantial change ; for this is the condition of christ's body , whatever its manner of existence be , after the hypostatical union to the divine nature . for , when bellarmin , petavius , and others of their greatest divines , undertake , against nestorius , to explain the hypostatical union , they tell us it consists in this , that the human nature loseth its proper subsistence , and is assumed into the subsistence of the divine nature . from whence i infer , that the body of christ , having no proper subsistence of its own , there can be no substantial change into that which hath no proper subsistence , but into that which hath ; and consequently the change must be into the divine nature principally ; from whence it will follow , the elements losing their subsistence , upon consecration the divinity must be united hypostatically to them , as to the human nature ; and so there will be as many hypostatical unions , as there are consecrations . and so this doctrine not only confounds sense and reason , but the mysteries of christ's incarnation too : which i think is sufficient for this head. vi. of merits and good works . for the true stating this controversy , we are to observe ; . that we do not charge those of the church of rome , that they believe christ's death and passion to be ineffectual and insignificant , and that they have no dependence on the merits of his sufferings , or the mercy of god for attaining salvation ; but that they are to be saved only by their own merits and good works ; as the misrepresenter saith , pag. . . we do not charge them with denying the necessity of divine grace in order to merit ; or with asserting that they can merit independently thereupon . . we do by no means dispute about the necessity of good works , in order to the reward of another life ; or assert that christ's merits will save men without working out their own salvation ; but do firmly believe , that god will judg men according to their works . the question then is , whether the good works of a just man , as our author expresses it , are truly meritorious of eternal life ? which he affirms , but qualifies with saying , that they proceed from grace , and that through god's goodness and promise , they are truly meritorious . but the council of trent denounces an anathema against those who deny the good works of justified persons , to be truly meritorious of the increase of grace , and of eternal life . here then lies the point in difference , ( . ) whether such good works can be said to be truly meritorious ? ( . ) whether those who deny it , deserve an anathema for so doing ? as to what relates to god's acceptance and allowance , and his goodness and promise , we freely own all that he saith about it ; and if no more be meant , what need an anathema about this matter ? there must therefore be something beyond this , when good works are not only said to be truly meritorious , but we are cursed if we do not say the same . to make any thing truly meritorious , we must suppose these conditions requisite . . that what we pretend to merit by , be our own free act. . that it be not defective . . that there be an equality between it , and the reward due to it . . that there be an obligation in point of justice , to give that reward to him that doth it . and from these considerations , we deny that , good works , even of justified persons , can be truly meritorious . . it is granted by themselves , that what is truly meritorious , must be a free act of the person who doth it . now the good works of justified persons cannot be said to be their own free acts , if the power of doing them depend upon divine assistance , and there was an antecedent obligation upon them to perform them : so that they can do nothing but what they are bound to , as god's creatures ; and their very power of doing it is from the grace of god. if men pretended to merit at anothers hands by what god gives , there were some colour for it ; but to merit from god himself by what he gives us , seems very incongruous . if i owe a man an l. and another knowing me unable to pay it , gives me so much to pay the debt , this is no more than what may be called strict payment , as to the creditor ; but if the creditor himself gives me this l. to pay himself with , will any man call this strict payment ? he may call it so himself , if he pleases , but that only shews his kindness and favour ; but it doth not look very modestly or gratefully , for the debtor to insist upon it as true legal payment . just so it is in good works done by the power of god's grace , which we could never have done without it ; and therefore such cannot be truly meritorious . . what is truly meritorious must not be defective ; because the proportion is to be equal between the act , and the reward due to it ; which being perfect , requires that there be no defect in the acts which merit it . but this can never be said of good works of justified persons , that they have no defects in them . we do not say , they are not good works , but they are not exact and perfect : for altho the grace of god , as it comes from him , be a perfect gift ; yet as it acts upon mens minds , it doth not raise them to such a degree , but that they have imperfections in their best actions . and whatever is defective , is faulty ; whatever is faulty , must be forgiven ; whatever needs forgiveness , cannot be truly meritorious . but not only their good works are defective ; but if they would merit , they ought to have none but good works , whereas the mixture of others renders the good uncapable of being meritorious , because there is so much to be pardoned , as takes away all claim of merit in the good they perform . and themselves do not pretend , that men can merit the grace of remission ; but it is very strange that those who cannot deserve to be forgiven , should deserve to have an infinite reward bestowed upon them . . there must be an exact proportion between the act and the recompence : for to merit , is to pay a price for a thing ; and in such acts of commutative justice , there must be an equality of one thing with another . but what equality can there be between the imperfect good works of the best men , and the most perfect happiness of another world ? especially when that consists in the fruition of the beatifical vision ? for what proportion can there be between our acts towards god , and god's acts towards the blessed in heaven ? let the acts be of what person soever , or of what nature soever , or from what principle soever ; as long as they are the acts of finite imperfect creatures , it is impossible there should be any equality , or exact proportion between them and the eternal favour of god , which is the reward promised . . where acts are truly meritorious , there follows an obligation of strict justice , to pay the recompence due to them . but what strict justice can there be between the creator and his creatures , to recompence the service they are bound to perform ; when their very being , power to act , assistance in acting , and recompence for it , are all from his bounty and goodness ? but our author would avoid all this , by saying , that though good works are truly meritorious ; yet it is through the merits of christ , and as they proceed from grace , and through his goodness and promise that they are so ; i. e. they are truly meritorious , because it appears from all these things they neither are , nor can be meritorious . for , ( . ) how come the merits of christ to make good works truly meritorious ? are the merits of christ imputed to those good works ? then those good works must be as meritorous as christ's own works ; which i suppose he will not assert . or , is it that christ hath merited the grace whereby we may merit ? but even this will not make our personal acts truly meritorious ; and the nature of merit relates to the acts , and not to the power . ( . ) how comes the power of grace to make them truly meritorious ; when the power of grace doth so much increase the obligation on our side ? if it be said , that the state of grace puts men into a capacity to merit : we might more reasonably infer the contrary , that it puts them out of a capacity of meriting ; because the remission of sins , and the favour of god , are things for which we can never make him any recompence . ( . ) how comes a divine promise to make acts truly meritorious ? for god's promise is an act of meer kindness , which is very different from strict justice : and although by the promise god binds himself to performance ; yet how come those acts to be more meritorious of heaven , than the acts of repentance are of remission of sins ? yet none will now say , that there can be any acts meritorious of that . yet certainly there is as clear a promise of pardon upon repentance , as there is of heaven upon good works : and if the promise in the other case , doth not make repentance meritorious of pardon ; how can it make good works truly meritorious of eternal life ? but notwithstanding , we do not deny god's fidelity to his promise may be called justice ; and so god , as a righteous judg , may give a crown of rightcousness to all that follow st. paul 's example , without making good works to be truly meritorious . vii . of confession . . vve do not charge the church of rome , that in the power of absolving , they make gods of men ; p. . as our misrepresenter pretends . . we do not deny , that christ gave to the bishops and priests of the catholick church , authority to absolve any truly penitent sinner from his sins , ( which he therefore needlesly proves out of scripture ) and that such absolution is ratified in heaven . . we are glad to find that our author declares , that no man receives benefit by absolution , without repentance from the bottom of his heart , and real intention of forsaking his sins ; p. . by which we hope he means more than attrition . but yet there are some things which stick with us , as to the doctrine and practice of the church of rome in this matter , which he takes no notice of . . that secret confession of sins to a priest is made so necessary to salvation , that an anathema is denounced against all that deny it , when they cannot deny that god doth forgive sins upon true contrition . forthe council of trent doth say , that contrition , with charity , doth reconcile a man to god before the sacrament of penance be actually received . but then it adds , that the desire of confession is included in contrition : which is impossible to be proved by scripture , reason , or antiquity . for so lately , as in the time of the master of the sentences , and gratian ( in the th centurie ) it was a very disputable point , whether confession to a priest were necessary . and it is very hard for us to understand how that should become necessary to salvation since , which was not then . some of their own writers confess , that some good catholicks did not believe the necessity of it . i suppose the old canonists may pass for good catholicks ; and yet maldonat saith , that all the interpreters of the decrees held , that there was no divine precept for confession to a priest ; and of the same opinion he grants scotus to have been . but he thinks it is now declared to be heresy , or he wishes it were . and we think it is too much already , unless there were better ground for it . . that an anathema is denounced against those who do not understand the words of christ , whose sins ye remit , they are remitted , &c. of the sacrament of penance , so as to imply the necessity of confession : whereas there is no appearance in the words of any such sense ; and themselves grant , that in order to the remission of sins , by baptism , ( of whch st. matthew and st. mark speak in the apostles commission ) there is no necessity of sacramental confession , but a general confession is sufficient . and from hence the elder jansenius concludes , that the power of remission of sins here granted , doth not imply sacramental confession . cajetan yields , there is no command for confession here . and catharinus adds , that cajetan would not allow any one place of scripture to prove auricular confession . and as to this particular , he denies that there is any command for it ; and he goes not about to prove it , but that cajetan contradicts himself elsewhere , viz. when he wrote school-divinity , before he set himself to the study of the scriptures . vasquez saith , that if these words may be understood of baptism , none can infer from them the necessity of auricular confession . but gregory de valentia evidently proves , that this place doth relate to remission of sins in baptism ; not only from the comparison of places , but from the testimonies of s. cyprian , s. ambrose , and others . . that it is expressed in the same anathema's that this hath been always the doctrine and practice of the catholick church from the beginning . we do not deny the ancient practice , either of canonical confession , as part of the discipline of the church for publick offences ; nor of confession , for ease and satisfaction of the perplexed minds of doubting or dejected penitents ; but that which we say was not owned nor practised by the church from the beginning , was this sacramental confession as necessary to the remission of sins before god. it is therefore to no purpose to produce out of bellarmine , and others , a great number of citations , to prove that which we never deny ; but if they hold to the council of trent , they must prove from the fathers , that sins after baptism cannot be forgiven without confession to men : which those who consider what they do , will never undertake , there being so many testimonies of undoubted antiquity against it . and it is observable , that bonaventure grants , that before the lateran decree of innocentius . it was no heresy to deny the necessity of confession ; and so he excuses those who in the time of lombard and gratian , held that opinion . and all other christians in the world besides those of the church of rome , do to this day reject the necessity of particular confession to a priest , in order to remission , as the writers of the church of rome themselves confess . so godignus doth of the abyssins ; philippus à ss . trinitate , of the jacobites ; clemens galanus of the nestorians , who saith , ' they made a decree against the use of confession to any but to god alone . and alexius meneses of the christians , of of s. thomas in the indies . the greeks believe confession only to be of positive and ecclesiastical institution , as the late author of the critical history of the faith and customs of the eastern nations , proves . and the very form of their absolution declares , that they do not think particular confession of all known sins , necessary to pardon : for therein the priest absolves the penitent from the sins he hath not confessed through forgetfulness , or shame . and now let any one prove this to have been a catholick tradition by vincentius his rules , viz. that it hath been always received , every where , and by all. viii . of indulgences . . they must be extreamly ignorant , who take the power of indulgences , to be a leave from the pope to commit what sins they please ; and that by vertue thereof , they shall escape punishment for their sins , without repentance in another world. yet this is the sense of the misrepresentation which , he saith , is made of it . and if he saith true in his preface , that he hath described the belief of a papist , exactly according to the apprehension he had when he was a protestant : he shews how well he understood the matters in difference , when i think no other person besides himself ever had such an apprehension of it , who pretended to be any thing like a scholar . . but now he believes it damnable to hold that the pope , or any other power in heaven or earth , can give him leave to commit any sins whatsoever ; or that for any sum of mony , he can obtain any indulgence or pardon for sins that are to be committed by him , or his heirs hereafter . very well ! but what thinks he of obtaining an indulgence , or pardon , after they are committed ? is no such thing to be obtained in the court of rome for a sum of mony ? he cannot but have heard of the tax of the apostolick chamber for certain sins , and what sums are there set upon them . why did he not as freely speak against this ? this is published in the vast collection of tracts of canon law , set forth by the pope's authority , where there are certain rates for perjury , murder , apostacy , &c. now what do these sums of mony mean ? if they be small , it is so much the better bargain , for the sins are very great . and espencaeus complains , that this book was so far from being called in , that he saith , the pope's legats renewed those faculties , and confirmed them . it seems then a sum of mony may be of some consequence towards the obtaining pardon for a sin past , though not for a licence to commit it . but what mighty difference is there , whether a man procures with mony a dispensation , or a pardon ? for the sin can hurt him no more , than if he had licence to commit it . . he doth believe there is a power in the church to grant indulgences ; which , he saith , concern not at all the remission of sins , either mortal or venial , but only of some temporal punishments remaining due after the guilt is remitted . here now arises a material question , viz. whether the popes , or the representer , be rather to be believed . if the popes , who grant the indulgences to be believed ; then not only the bare remission of sins is concerned in them , but the plenary , and most plenary remission of sins is to be had by them . so boniface the th , in his bull of jubilee granted , non solum plenam & largiorem , imo plenissimam veniam peccatorum . if these words had no relation to remission of sins , the people were horribly cheated by the sound of them . in the bull of clement the th , not extant in the bullarium , but published out of the utrecht manuscript , not only a plenary absolution from all sins is declared to all persons who died in the way to rome ; but he commands the angels of paradise to carry the soul immediatly to heaven . and i suppose , whatever implies such an absolution as carries a soul to heaven , doth concern remission of sins . boniface the th granted indulgences , à poenâ & à culpâ ; and those certainly concerned remission of sins ; being not barely from the temporal punishment , but from the guilt it self . clement the th , whom bellarmine magnifies for his care in reforming indulgences , in his bull of jubilee , grants a most plenary remission of sins ; and urban the th , since him , not only a relaxation of penances , but remission of sins ; and so lately as a. d. . clement the th published an indulgence upon the canonization of five new saints , wherein he not only grants a plenary indulgence of sins , but upon invocation of one of these saints in the point of death , a plenary indulgence of all his sins . and what doth this signify in the point of death , if it do not concern the remission of sins ? . indulgences , he saith , are nothing else but a mitigation or relaxation , upon just causes , of canonical penances , which are or may be enjoyned by the pastors of the church on penitent sinners , according to their several degrees of demerits . if by canonical penances , they mean those enjoyned by the penitential canons , greg. de valentia saith , this opinion differs not from that of the hereticks , and makes indulgences to be useless and dangerous things . bellarmine brings several arguments against this doctrine . ( . ) there would be no need of the treasure of the church ; which he had proved to be the foundation of indulgences . ( . ) they would be rather hurtful than profitable , and the church would deceive her children by them . ( . ) they could not be granted for the dead . ( . ) they who receive indulgences , do undergo canonical penances . ( . ) the form of them doth express , that they do relate to god , and not only to the church . and this , i think , is sufficient to shew how far he is from true representing the nature of indulgences ; for we do not dispute the churche's power in relaxing canonical penances to penitent sinners upon just causes . ix . of satisfaction . . he believes it damnable to think any thing injuriously of christ's passion : but then he distinguishes the eternal and temporal pain due to sin. as to the guilt and eternal pain , the satisfaction , he saith , ● proper to christ ; but as to the temporal pain , which m●● remain due by god's justice , after the other are remitted , he saith , that penitent sinners may in some measure satisfy for that by prayer , fasting , alms , &c. p. . . these penitential works , he saith , are no otherwise satisfactory , than as joined and applied to christ's satisfaction , in virtue of which alone our good works find a grateful acceptance in god's sight . p. . but for right apprehending the state of the controversy , we must consider ; . that they grant both eternal and temporal pain due to sin , to be remitted in baptism ; so that all the satisfaction to be made , is for sins committed after baptism . . we distinguish between satisfaction to the church before absolution , and satisfaction to the justice of god for some part of the punishment to sin which is unremitted . . we do not deny that truly penitential works are pleasing to god , so as to avert his displeasure ; but we deny that there can be any compensation in way of equivalency , between what we suffer , and what we deserve . the matter in controversy therefore on this head , consists in these things . . that after the total remission of sins in baptism , they suppose a temporal punishment to remain , when the eternal is forgiven ; which the penitent is to satisfy god's justice for ; and without this being done in this life , he must go into purgatory for that end. of which more under that head. . that this satisfaction may be made to the justice of god , after absolution is given by the priest. so that although the penitent be admitted into god's favour , by the power of the keys , according to their own doctrine ; yet the application of the merits of christ , together with the saints in the sentence of absolution ( according to their form ) do not set him so free , but he either wants a new supply from the treasure of the church , i. e. from the same merits of christ and the saints ; or else he is to satisfie for the temporal punishment by his own penances . . that these penitential works are to be joyned with the merits of christ , in the way of proper satisfaction to divine justice . and however softly this may be expressed ; the meaning is , that christ hath merited , that we may merit , and by his satisfaction , we are enabled to satisfie for our selves . and if the satisfaction by way of justice be taken away , the other will be a controversy about words . . that these penitential works may not only be sufficient for themselves , but they may be so over-doing , that a great share may be taken from them to make up the treasure of the church , for the benefit of others who fall short , when they are duly applied to them in the way of indulgences . and about these points , we must desire greater proof than we have yet ever seen . x. of reading the holy scripture . . he believes it damnable in any one , to think , speak , or do any thing irreverently towards the scripture , or by any means whatsoever to bring it into disrepute or disgrace ; but not being contented with this , he adds , that he holds it in the highest veneration of all men living . now , here we must desire a little better representation of this matter . for certainly , those who derive its authority from the church ; who set traditions in equal esteem with it ; who complain so much of its obscurity , can never be said to hold it in equal veneration with those who maintain its independent authority , its sufficiency , and perspicuity . and these are known and material points in controversy between us and them : therefore let them not say , they hold it in the highest veneration of all men living ; though those thought themselves through catholioks , who have compared it to a nose of wax , to a lesbian rule , to a dead letter , unsensed characters , and to other things , not fit to be repeated . but we are well pleased to find them express such veneration for it . wherefore then are the people to be kept from reading it ? . he saith , it is not out of disrespect to it . but why then ? ( . ) because private interpretation is not proper for the scr●ture , ( pet. . . ) one would think the scripture were not kept only from the people , by such a sense being put upon it : for any one that would but consider that place , will find it must relate to the prophets themselves ; and doth he think the prophets were to be debarred from reading the scriptures ? but this is playing with scripture , and not reasoning from it . ( . ) because in the epistles of st. paul are certain things hard to be understood , which the unlearned and unstable deprave , as also the rest of the scriptures , to their own perdition . ( pet. . . ) now in my opinion , such men deserve more to be debarred from the medling with the scripture , who make such perverse inferences from it , than ordinary readers . and if they use all other places , as they do this , they cannot be excused from depraving it . it is granted , there were then unlearned and unstable men , who misunderstood , or misappled the writings of st. paul , and other scriptures . and what then ? there are men of all ages , who abuse the best things in the world , even the gospel it self , and the grace of god. doth it hence follow , that the gospel must not be preached to them , or the grace of god made known to them , for fear of mens making ill use of it ? if this had been the just consequence , would not st. peter himself have thought of this ? but he was so far from making it , that he adviseth those persons he writes to , to have a mighty regard to the scriptures , even to the prophetical writings , as to a light shining in a dark place , pet. . . according to this way of deducing consequences , s. peter should have argued just contrary ; the prophetical writings are dark and obscure , therefore meddle not with them , but trust your guides : whereas the apostle , after he had told them what the apostles saw and heard , he adds , that they have a more sure prophetical word , as the rhemists translate it . how could that be more sure to them , unless they were allowed to read , consider , and make use of it ? ( . ) because god hath given only some to be apostles , some prophets , other some evangelists , and other some pastors and doctors , ephes. . . doth it hence follow that the people are not to read the scriptures ? in the universities , tutors are appointed to interpret aristotle to their pupils ; doth it hence follow that they are not to read aristotle themselves ? it is , no doubt , a mighty advantage to have such infallible interpreters as the apostles & prophets ; and all christians are bound to follow their sense , where they have delivered it . but suppose the question be about the sense of these interpreters ; must their books not be looked into , because of the danger of error ? this reason will still hold against those who go about to deliver their sense ; and so on , till by this method of reasoning , all sorts of books and interpretations be rejected ; unless any such can be found out , which is not liable to be abused or misunderstood . and if there be any such to be had , they are much to blame who do not discover it . but as yet we see no remedy for two things in mankind , a proneness to sin and to mistake . but of all things , we ought not to take away from them one of the best means to prevent both , viz. a diligent , and careful , and humble reading the holy scriptures . but . he denies that all persons are forbid to read the scriptures , but only such as have no license , and good testimony from their curates : and therefore their design is not to preserve ignorance in the people , but to prevent a blind , ●gnorant presumption . these are plausible pretences to such as search no far●her ; but the mystery of this matter lies much deeper . ●t was no doubt the design of the church of rome to keep the bible wholly out of the hands of the people . but upon the reformation they found it impossible ; so many translations being made into vulgar languages ; ●nd therefore care was taken to have translations made ●y some of their own body ; and since the people of ●etter inclinations to piety were not to be satisfied with●ut the bible ; therefore they thought it the better way ●o permit certain persons whom they could trust , to have license to read it : and this was the true reason of the ●ourth rule of the index libr. prohibit . made in pursu●nce of the order of the council of trent , and published ●y pius iv. by which any one may see it was not an original permission out of any good will to the thing ; ●ut an aftergame to get the bible out of the hands of ●●e people again : and therefore absolution was to be ●enied to those who would not deliver them to their or●naries when they were called for : and the regulars ●●emselves were not to be permitted to have bibles with●●t a license : and as far as i can understand the addi●on of clement viii . to that fourth rule , he withdraws ●y new power of granting such licenses ; and saith ●ey are contrary to the command and usage of that ●●urch , which he saith is to be inviolably observed : ●herein i think he declares himself fully against such ●censes : and how inferior guides can grant them a●inst the command of the head of the church , is a thing ●t very agreeable to the unity and subordination they ●ast of . xi . of apochryphal books . . we do not charge the church of rome with m●king what additions to scripture they thi● good , as the misrepresenter saith ; but we charge the● with taking into the canon of scripture such books ● were not received for canonical by the christian church as those books himself mentions , viz. toby , judith , eclesiasticus , wisdom , and maccabees . . we do not only charge them with this , but with anathematizing all those who do not upon this decla●tion believe them to be canonical ; since they cannot 〈◊〉 but know , that these books never were in the jewish ●●non , and were left out by many christian writers . a● if the church cannot add to the scripture , and 〈◊〉 author thinks it damnable to do it ; how can it ma● any books canonical , which were not so received by t●● church ? for the scripture in this sense is the canon ; a● therefore if it add to the canon , it adds to the scripture i. e. it makes it necessary to believe some books to be ● infallible authority , which were not believed to be ● either by the jewish or christian church , as appears 〈◊〉 abundant testimonies to that purpose produced by learned bishop of this church ; which ought to ha● been considered by the representer , that he might 〈◊〉 have talked so crudely about this matter . but however , i must consider what he saith , . he produces the testimony of greg. nazia●● who is expresly against him , and declares but twe●● two books in the canon of the old testament but how doth he prove that he thought these boo● canonical ? he quotes his oration on the maccabe● where i can find nothing like it ; and instead of it 〈◊〉 expresly follows , as he declares , the book of josephus , 〈◊〉 the authority of reason concerning them . so that if ●his proves any thing , it proves josephus his book canonical , and not the maccabees . . he adds the testimony of st. ambrose , who in the place he refers to , inlarges on the story of the maccabees , ●ut saith nothing of the authority of the book : and even coccius himself grants , that of old melito sardensis , amphilochius , greg. nazianzen . the council of laodicea , s. hierom , ruffinus , and gregory the great , did not own the book of maccabees for canonical . . innocentius ad exuperium speaks more to his purpose ; and if that decretal epistle be allowed , against which bishop cosins hath made considerable objections ; then it must be granted , that these books were then in the roman canon ; but that they were not received by the universal church , appears evidently by the canon of the council of laodicea , c. . wherein these books are ●est out ; and this was received in the code of the uni●ersal church ; which was as clear a proof of the canon ●hen generally received , as can be expected . it is true , the council of carthage took them in ; and st. augustine seems ●o be of the same opinion : but on the other side they ●re left out by melito bishop of sardis , who lived near ●he apostles times ; origen , athanasius , st. hilary , st. cyril of jerusalem , epiphanius , st. basil , amphilochius , st. chrysostom , and especially st jerom , who hath laboured ●n this point so much , that no fewer than thirteen places ●re produced out of him to this purpose , by the forementioned learned bishop of our church , who clearly ●roves there was no tradition for the canon of the council of trent in any one age of the christian church . but our author goes on . . it is of little concern to him , whether these books were ever in the hebrew copy . i would ●nly ask whether it be of any concern to him , whether they were divinely inspired or not ? he saith it is damnable to add to the scripture ; by the scripture we mean books written by divine inspiration can the church make books to be so written , which were not so written ? if not , then all it hath to do , is to deliver by tradition what was so , and what not . whence should they have this tradition , but from the jews ? and they owned no divine inspiration after the time of malach how then should there be any books so written afte● that time ? and he that saith in this matter , as he doth it is of little concern to him whether they were in the hebrew canon , doth little concern himself what he oug●● to believe , and what not , in this matter . . since the churches declaration , he saith , no cathlicks ever doubted . what doth he mean by the church● declaration , that of innocentius , and the council of cathage ? then the same bishop hath shewed him , th● since that time , there have been very many , both 〈◊〉 the greek and latin church of another opinion . an● but a little before the council of trent , catharinus saith that a friend of his , and a brother in christ , deride him as one that wanted learning for daring to assert the● books were within the canon of scripture ; and it 's plain , card. cajetan could never be perswaded of it : b● if he means since the council of trent , then we are ●●turned to our first difficulty , how such a council c●● make any books canonical , which were not received 〈◊〉 such by the catholick church before ? for then they 〈◊〉 not declare the canon , but create it . xii . of the vulgar edition of the bible . . we do not dispute about the vulgar editi●● whether it may not be prefer'd before modern latin editions because of its great antiquity in som● parts of it , and its general reception since the time of gregory i. but our dispute is , whether it be made so authentick since the council of trent , that no appeals are to be made to the originals , i. e. whether that council by its authority could make a version equal to the originals out of which it was made ? especially since at the time of that decree , the vulgar edition was confessed to be full of errors and corruptions by sixtus v. who saith , he took infinite pains to correct them , and yet left very many behind , as appeared by clement viii . who corrected his bibles in very many places , and grants some faults were left uncorrected still ; now , how was it possible for the council of trent to declare that edition authentick , which was afterwards so much corrected ? and , whether was the correct edition of sixtus v. authentick or not , being made in pursuance of the decree of the council ? if not , how comes clemens his edition to be made authentick when the other was not , since there may be corruptions found in that , as well as the other ; and no one can tell , but it may be reviewed and corrected still ; as some of their own writers confess it stands in need of it ? . our controversy is not so much about the authority of the vulgar latin above other latin versions to those who understand them ; but whether none else but the latin version must be used by those who understand it not ? and here our representer saith , that he is commanded not to read any of these translations ( speaking of tindal's , and that in q. elizabeths time ) but only that which is recommended to him by the church . if this relate to the vulgar latin , then we are to seek , why the common people should have none to read but what they cannot understand ; if to translations of their own , then we doubt not to make it appear , that our translation allowed among us , is more exact and agreeable than any they can put into their hands . xiii . of the scriptures as a rule of faith. the only thing insisted on here is , that it is not the words , but the sense of scripture is the rule ; and that this sense is not to be taken from mens private fancies , which are various and uncertain ; and therefore where there is no security from errors , there is nothing capable of being a rule . to clear this , we must consider , . that it is not necessary to the making of a rule , to prevent any possibility of mistake , but that it be such that they cannot mistake without their own fault . for certainty in it self , and sufficiency for the use of others , are all the necessary properties of a rule ; but after all , it 's possible for men not to apply the rule aright , and then they are to be blamed , and not the rule . . if no men can be certain of the right sense of scripture , then it is not plain in necessary things ; which is contrary to the design of it , and to the clearest testimonies of antiquity , and to the common sense of all christians , who never doubted or disputed the sense of some things revealed therein ; as the unity of the godhead , the making of the world by him , the deluge , the history of the patriarchs , the captivity of the jews , the coming of the messias , his sending his apostles , his coming again to judgment , &c. no man who reads such things in scripture can have any doubt about the sense and meaning of the words . . where the sense is dubious , we do not allow any man to put what sense he please upon them ; but we say , there are certain means , whereby he may either attain to the true sense , or not be damned if he do not . and the first thing every man is to regard , is not his security from being deceived , but from being damned . for truth is made known in order to salvation ; if therefore i am sure to attain the chief end , i am not so much concerned , as to the possibility of errors , as that i be not deceived by my own fault . we do not therefore leave men either to follow their own fancy , or to interpret scripture by it ; but we say , they are bound upon pain of damnation to seek the truth sincerely , and to use the best means in order to it ; and if they do this , they either will not err , or their errors will not be their crime . xiv . of the interpretation of scripture . . the question is not , whether men are not bound to make use of the best means for the right interpretation of scripture , by reading , meditation , prayer , advice , a humble and teachable temper , &c. i. e. all the proper means fit for such an end ? but whether after all these , there be a necessity of submitting to some infallible judge , in order to the attaining the certain sense of scripture ? . the question is not , whether we ought not to have a mighty regard to the sense of the whole christian church in all ages since the apostles , which we profess to have ; but whether the present roman church , as it stands divided from other communions , hath such a right and authority to interpret scripture , that we are bound to believe that to be the infallible sense of scripture which she delivers . and here i cannot but take notice how strangely this matter is here misrepresented ; for the case is put , . as if every one who rejects their pretence of infallibility , had nothing to guide him but his own private fancy in the interpretation of scripture . . as if we rejected the sense put upon scripture by the whole community of christians in all ages since the apostles times . whereas we appeal in the matters in difference between us , to this universal sense of the christian church , and are verily perswaded they cannot make it out in any one point wherein we differ from them . and themselves cannot deny , that in several we have plainly the consent of the first ages , as far as appears by the books remaining , on our side ; as in the worship of images , invocation of saints , papal supremacy , communion in both kinds , prayer and scripture in known tongues ; and i may safely add , the sufficiency of scripture , transubstantiation , auricular confession , publick communions , solitary masses , to name no more . but here lies the artifice ; we must not pretend to be capable of judging either of scripture or tradition , but we must trust their judgment what is the sense of scripture , and what hath been the practice of the church in all ages , although their own writers confess the contrary ; which is very hard . but he seems to argue for such a submission to the church ; . because we receive the book of scripture from her ; therefore from her we are to receive the sense of the book . an admirable argument ! we receive the old testament from the jews , therefore from them we are to receive the sense of the old testament ; and so we are to reject the true messias . but this is not all ; if by the church they mean the church of rome in distinction from others , we deny it ; if they mean the whole christian church , we grant it ; but then the force of it is quite lost . but why is it not possible for the church of rome to keep these writings , and deliver them to others , which make against her self ? do not persons in law-suits often produce deeds which make against them ? but there is yet a farther reason ; it was not possible for the church of rome to make away these writings , being so universally spread . . because the church puts the difference between true and false books , therefore that must be trusted for the true sense of them . which is just as if one should argue , the clerks of the rolls are to give an account to the court of true records , therefore they are to sit on the bench , and to give judgment in all causes . the church is only to declare what it finds as to canonical books ; but hath no power to make any book canonical which was not before received for such . but i confess stapleton saith , the church if it please may make hermes his pastor , and clemens his constitutions canonical : but i do not think our author will therein follow him . xv. of tradition . . the question is not about human traditions supplying the defects of scripture , as he misrepresents it ; but whether there be an unwritten word , which we are equally bound to receive with the written word : altho these things which pass under that name , are really but humane traditions ; yet we do not deny that they pretend them to be of divine original . . we do not deny , but the apostles might deliver such things by word , as well as by epistle , which their disciples were bound to believe and keep : but we think there is some difference to be made between what we certainly know they delivered in writing , and what it is now impossible for us to know ; viz. what they delivered by word without writing . . we see no ground why any one should believe any doctrine with a stedfast and divine faith , which is not bottom'd on the written word ; for then his faith must be built on the testimony of the church as divine and infallibe , or else his faith cannot be divine . but it is impossible to prove it to be divine and infallible , but by the written word ; and therefore , as it is not reasonable that he should believe the written word by such a divine testimony of the church ; so if any particular doctrine may be received on the authority of the church without the written word , then all articles of faith may , and so there would be no need of the written word . . the faith of christians doth no otherwise stand upon the foundation of the churches tradition , than as it delivers down to us the books of scripture ; but we acknowledg the general sense of the chrstian church to be a very great help for understanding the true sense of scripture ; and we do not reject any thing so delivered ; but what is all this to the church of rome ? but this is still the way of true representing . xvi . of councils . . we are glad to find so good a resolution as seems to be expressed in these words , viz. that he is obliged to believe nothing besides that which christ taught , and his apostles ; and if any thing contrary to this should be defined , and commanded to be believed , even by ten thousand councils , he believes it damnable in any one to receive it , and by such decrees to make additions to his creed . this seems to be a very good saying , and it is pity any thing else should overthrow it . but here lies the misrepresenting ; he will believe what christ and his apostles taught , from the definitions of councils ; and so all this goodly fabrick falls to nothing ; for it is but as if one should say , if aristotle should falsly deliver plato's sense , i will never believe him , but i am resolved to take plato's sense only from aristotle's words . so here , he first declares he will take the faith of christ from the church ; and then he saith , if the church representative should contradict the faith of christ , he would never believe it . . we dispute not with them , the right and necessity of general councils , ( upon great occasions ) if they be truly so , rightfully called , lawfully assembled , and fairly managed ; which have been , and may be of great use to the christian world , for setling the faith , healing the breaches of christendom , and reforming abuses . and we farther say , that the decrees of such councils ought to be submitted to , where they proceed upon certain grounds of faith , and not upon unwritten traditions ; which was the fatal stumbling at the threshold in the council of trent , and was not to be recovered afterwards ; for their setting up traditions equally with the written word , made it easie for them to define , and as easie for all others to reject their definitions , in case there had not been so many other objections against the proceedings of that council . and so all our dispute concerning this matter is taken off from the general notion , and runs into the particular debate concerning the qualifications and proceedings of some which were called free , general councils ; but were neither general , nor free ; and therefore could not deliver the sense of the catholick church , which our author requires them to do . xvii . of infallibility in the church . . he doth not pretend this belongs to the pastors and prelates of his church , who may fall , he saith , into heresie and schism ; but that the whole church is secured by divine promises from all error and danger of prevarication ; which he proves from the promises of the new testament , mat. . — . . john . , . but however the former seems to take away infallibility from the guides of the church , yet that this is to be understood of them separately , appears by what follows . . the like assistance of the holy ghost he believes to be in all general councils , which is the church representative ; by which they are specially protected from all error in all definitions and declarations in matters of faith. now here are two sorts of infallibility tacked to one another by vertue of these general promises , which ought more distinctly to be considered . . to preserve christs church so as it shall never cease to be a church , is one thing ; to preserve it from all error is another : the former answers the end of christs promises as to the duration of the church ; and the latter is not implied in them . . the promise of teaching them all truth , joh. . . is not made to the whole church , but to the apostles : and their case was so peculiar and extraordinary , that there can be no just inference from the assistance promised to them , of what the church should enjoy in all ages . . if the diffusive church have no infallible assistance promised , then no infallible assistance can from thence be proved for the church representative ; so that some particular promises to the guides of the church as assembled together , are necessary to prove the infallibility of councils . . it by no means proves following councils to be infallible , because the apostles said , acts . . it seemed good to the holy ghost , and to us . our author doth not doubt , but the same may be prefixed to all determinations in point of faith , resolved on by any general council lawfully assembled since that time , or to be held to the worlds end . but what reason he had for not doubting in this matter , i cannot see ; the assistance , he saith , being to extend as far as the promise : but shall assistance imply infallibility ? then there must be good store , as long as the promises of divine grace hold good : but this assistance of councils is very different from the assistance of grace ; for the church may subsist without councils , but cannot without grace : what general council was there from the meeting , acts . to the council of nice ? were not christs promises fulfilled to his church all that time , when it encreased in all parts against the most violent opposition ? . no parity of reason from the jewish church can be sufficient proof for infallibility in the christian. but our author argues thus , if gods special assistance was never wanting to the church of the jews so as to let it fail in the truth of its doctrine , or its authority ; why should not he believe the same of the church of christ , which is built on better promises ? what special assistance was it which israel had , when it is said , that for a long time israel had been without the true god , and without a teaching priest , and without law ? and as to judah , was there no failing in point of doctrine in our saviours time ? it is true they had the law intire , and that was all that was good among them ; for their teachers had corrupted themselves and the people , and made the law of no effect among them : if there were infallibility any where , it must be in the high priest and sanhedrim ; but is it possible for any christian to think them infallible , when they were so grosly mistaken about the main article of their faith as to the messias , and pronounced him worthy of death ? is not this a fine argument for the infallibility of the guides of the christian church ? but the church of christ hath better promises : no doubt of it , greater promises of grace and mercy in this world , and in that to come : but what is all this to infallibility in councils ? . christ's command of obedience to those who sat in moses chair , ( matt. . . ) doth not prove the infallibility of those who sat there . yet this is alledged to that purpose ; and that men ought not to doubt of the reasonableness of the commands of their superiors . but st. chrysostom saith , our saviour speaks of the things commanded by the law of moses . per cathedram doctrinam legis ostendit , saith s. jerom ; not their own doctrine , but that of moses , saith isidore ; and so hilary and theophylact . maldonate confesseth , our saviours words are to be understood , not of their own doctrine , but of that of the law ; and therefore he yields the obedience here required is to be restrained to that ; all things , saith cajetan , which they teach out of moses 's chair : not all their doctrines , but as far as they were conformable to the law , saith ferus . now , can any one hence infer , that no men ought to dispute any commands of superiors , when it is supposed , that there is a rule and standard for them to speak according to ; and our saviour elsewhere doth suppose these very men to teach things contrary to the law ; as in the case of corban . would our saviour contradict himself ? or require a blind obedience in things repugnant to the law ? we do not deny a due submission to our superiours in the church ; yea , we allow them a power to determine things not forbidden ; and think obedience due in such things by vertue of their authority ; but yet this is far enough from infallibility , or an unlimited implict obedience , which would overthrow the force of all our saviours reasonings against the scribes and pharisees , as to their misinterpreting the law , and the superstitious practises they imposed upon the people . xviii . of the pope . . we do not charge them with believing the pope to be god ; which it seems himself did , if we believe the misrepresenter in his preface ; but there is some reason to doubt whether they do not at some times give him greater honour than becomes a man. i instance in the adoration after his election , when the new pope is placed upon the altar to receive the submissions of the cardinals ; but the altar , themselves do confess to be sacred to god alone ; and there they profess to worship jesus christ , as present in the host. this therefore looks too much like assuming the place of christ , and not becoming the distance between god and man. . the question is , whether christ hath appointed the pope or bishop of rome to be pastor , governour , and head of his church under him ? this , he saith , he believes , and this he knows we deny , and therefore had reason to expect some proof of it . but instead , he tells us how they look on themselves as obliged to shew him the respect due to his place , which he knows is not the matter in question . two things however he saith , which seem to justify his title . . he is the successor of st. peter , to whom christ committed the care of his flock . but how far is this from proving the pope to be head of the church under christ ? for , how doth it appear that christ ever made s. peter head of the church , or committed his flock to him , in contradistinction to the rest of the apostles ? this is so far from being evident from scripture , that the learned men of their church are ashamed of the places commonly produced for it ; it being impossible ever to justify the sense of them according to their own rules of interpreting scripture , viz. by the unanimous consent of the fathers . for , . thou art peter , and upon this rock will i build my church , is interpreted by many of the fathers both greek and latin , of s. peters confession , and not of his person ; so by s. chrysostom , s. ambrose , s. augustin , s. basil of selucioe , s. hilary , s. gregory nyssen , and theodoret ; all great and considerable persons in the christian church , whose words are plain and full to that purpose ; and so they can never produce the unanimous consent of the fathers for s. peter's supremacy out of these words . . and unto thee will i give the keys of the kingdom of heaven , are interpreted by the fathers of s. peter in common with the other apostles ; so origen , s. cyprian , s. hilary , s. hierom , and s. augustin , as they are all owned by a member of the roman communion . and . for these words , feed my sheep , a late learned doctor of the sorban shews , that if they prove any thing peculiar to s. peter , they must prove him sole pastor of the church , which was the thing s. gregory disputed against so warmly . but that there was nothing peculiar to s. peter , above or beyond the rest of the apostles , he shews at large from s. chrysostom , s. cyril , s. augustin and others , to whom i refer the reader , and to the former authors . but suppose it were made to appear , that s. peter was head of the church , how doth the bishop of rome's succession in that headship shew it self ? to that he saith , . that there hath been a visibile succession of above two hundred and fifty bishops , acknowledged as such in all past ages by the christian world. as such : what is that ? as bishops of rome ? that is not of weight enough to put it upon trial ; as heads of the catholick-church ? that he knows is not only denied by us , but by all the greek , armenian , nestorian , abyssin churches ; so that we dare say , it was never allowed in any one age of the christian church . but we need not insist on the proof of this , since the late mentioned authors of the roman communion have taken so great pains , not only to prove the popes supremacy to be an incroachment and usurpation in the church , but that the laying it aside is necessary to the peace and unity of it . and until the divine institution of the papal supremacy be proved , it is to no purpose to debate what manner of assistance is promised to the pope in his decrees . our author is willing to decline the debate about his personal infallibility , as a matter of opinion , and not of faith ; and yet he saith he doubts not but god doth grant a special assistancé to the high priest , for the good of the whole flock , under the new law , as he did under the old ; and produces the instance of caiaphas , joh. . . this is a very surprizing way of reasoning ; for if his arguments be good from scripture , he must hold the popes personal infallibity as a matter of faith ; and yet one would hardly think he should build an article of faith on the instance of caiaphas : for what consequence can be drawn from gods over-ruling the mind of a very bad man , when he was carrying on a most wicked design , to utter such words , which in the event proved true in another sense than he meant them ; that therefore god will give a special assistance to the pope in determining matters of faith ? was not caiaphas himself the man who proposed the taking away the life of christ at that time ? was he assisted in that council ? did not he determine afterwards christ to he guilty of blasphemy , and therefore worthy of death ? and is not this a rare infallibility which is supposed to be consistent with a decree to crucifie christ ? and doth he in earnest think such orders are to be obeyed , whether the supreme pastor be infallible or not ? for so he concludes , that his sentence is to be obeyed , whether he be infallible or no ? xix . of dispensations . here the misrepresenter saith , that a papist believes that the pope hath authority to dispense with the laws of god , and absolve any one from the obligation of keeping the commandments . on the other side , the representer affirms , that the pope has no authority to dispense with the law of god , and that there 's no power upon earth can absolve any one from the obligation of keeping the commandments : this matter is not to be determined by the ones affirming , and the others denying ; but by finding out , if possible , the true sense of the church of rome about this matter . and there are three opinions about it . . of those who assert , that the pope hath a power of dispensing in any divine law , except the articles of faith : the gloss upon the canon law saith , that where the text seems to imply , that the pope cannot dispense against the apostle , it is to be understood of articles of faith : and panormitan saith , this exposition pleases him well ; for the pope may dispense in all other things : contra apostolum dispensat , saith the gloss on the decree : and the roman editors in the margin , refer to dist. c. lector to prove it : and there indeed the gloss is very plain in the case , sic ergo papa dispensat contra apostolum : and the roman correctors there justifie it , and say it is no absurd doctrine as to positive institutions : but the former notable gloss , as panormitan calls it , sets down the particulars wherein the pope may dispense . as . against the apostles and their canons . . against the old testament . . in vows . . in oaths . the summa angelica saith , the pope may dispense as to all the precepts of the old testament . and clavasi●● founds this power upon the plenitude of the popes power , according to that expression in the decretal mentioned , that he can , ex plenitudine potestatis de jure supra jus dispensare ; and without such a power , he saith , god would not have taken that care of his church , which was to be expected from his wisdom . jacobatius brings several instances of this power in the pope , and refers to the speculator for more . jac. almain saith , that all the canonists are of opinion , that the pope may dispense against the apostle , and many of their divines , but not all : for , . some of their divines held that the pope could not dispense with the law of god , as that implies a proper relaxation of the law , but could only authoritatively declare that the law did not oblige in such a particular case ; because an inferior could not take away the force of a superiors law ; and otherwise there would be no fixed and immutable rule in the church ; and if the pope might dispense in one law of god , he might dispense in the rest : and of this opinion were some of the most eminent school-divines , as thomas aquinas , bonaventure , major , soto , and catbarinus , who at large debates this question , and denies that the pope hath any power to dispense with gods law : but then he adds , that the pope hath a kind of prophetical power to declare in what cases the law doth oblige , and in what not ; which he parallels with the power of declaring the canon of scripture ; and this he doth not by his own authority , but by gods ; he confesseth the pope cannot dispense with those precepts which are of themselves indispensable ; nor alter the sacraments ; but then , saith he , there are some divine laws , which have a general force , but in particular cases may be dispensed with ; and in these cases the law is to be relaxed , so that the relaxation seems to come from god himself : but he confesses this power is not to be often made use of ; so that he makes this power to be no act of jurisdiction , but of prophetical interpretation , as he calls it ; and he brings the instance of caiaphas to this purpose : and he adds , that the difference between the divines and canonists was but in terms ; for the canonists were in the right as to the power , and the divines in the manner of explaining it . . others have thought this too loose a way of explaining the popes power , and therefore they say , that the pope hath not a bare declaratory power , but a real power of dispensing in a proper sense in particular cases : for say they , the other is no act of jurisdiction , but of discretion , and may belong to other men as well as to the pope ; but this they look on as more agreeable to the popes authority and commission ; and a bare declaratory power would not be sufficient for the churches necessity ; as sanchez shews at large , and quotes many authors for this opinion , and sayr . more ; and he saith the practice of the church cannot be justified without it : which suarez much insists upon ; and without it , he saith , the church hath fallen into intolerable errors ; and it is evident he saith , the church hath granted real dispensations , and not meer declarations . and he founds it upon christs promise to peter , to thee will i give the keys , and the charge to him , feed my sheep . but then he explains this opinion , by saying that it is no formal dispensation with the law of god , but the matter of the law is changed or taken away . thus i have briesly laid together the different opinions in the church of rome about this power of dispensing with the law of god ; from which it appears , that they do all consent in the thing , but differ only in the manner of explaining it . and i am therefore afraid our representer is a very unstudied divine , and doth not well understand their own doctrine , or he would never have talked so boldly and unskilfully in this matter . as to what he pretends , that their church teaches that every lye is a sin , &c. it doth not reach the case ; for the question is not , whether their church teach men to lye , but whether there be not such a power in the church , as by altering the nature of things , may not make that not to be a lye , which otherwise would be one : as their church teaches that men ought not to break their vows ; yet no one among them questions , but the pope may dissolve the obligation of a vow , altho it be made to god himself . let him shew then , how the pope comes to have a power to release a vow made to god , and not to have a power to release the obligation to veracity among men . again , we do not charge them with delivering any such doctrine , that men may have dispensations to lye and forswear themselves at pleasure ; for we know this dispensing power is to be kept up as a great mystery , and not to be made use of , but upon weighty and urgent causes , of great consequence and benefit to the church , as their doct●●● declare . but as to all matters of fact , which he alludes to , i have nothing to say to them ; for our debate is only , whether there be such a power of dispensation allowed in the church of rome , or not ? xx. of the deposing power . to bring this matter into as narrow a compass as may be , i shall first take notice of his concessions , which will save us a labour of proofs . . he yields that the deposing and king-killing power hath been maintained by some canonists and divines of his church , and that it is in their opinion lawful , and annexed to the papal chair . . that some popes have endeavoured to act according to this power . but then he denies that this doctrine appertains to the faith of his church , and is to be believed by all of that communion . and more than that , he saith , the affirming of it is a malicious calumny , a down-right falsity . let us now calmly debate the matter , whether according to the received principles of the church of rome , this be only a particular opinion of some popes and divines , or be to be received as a matter of faith. the question is not , whether those who deny it , do account it an article of faith ; for we know they do not : but whether upon the principles of the church of rome they are not bound to do it . i shall only , to avoid cavilling , proceed upon the principles owned by our author himself , viz. . that the sense of scripture , as understood by the community of christians in all ages since the apostles , is to be taken from the present church . . that by the present church he understands the pastors and prelates assembled in councils , who are appointed by christ and his apostles for the decision of controversies ; and that they have infallible assistance . . that the pope as the head of the church , hath a particular assistance promised him , with a special regard to his office and function . if therefore it appear that popes and councils have declared this deposing doctrine , and they have received other things as articles of faith upon the same declarations , why should they then stick at yielding this to be an article of faith , as well as the other ? it is not denied , that i can find , that popes and councils for several ages have asserted and exercised the deposing power ; but it is alledged against these decrees , and acts , . that they were not grounded upon universal tradition . . that they had not universal reception . now , if these be sufficient to overthrow the definitions of councils , let us consider the consequences of it . . then every man is left to examin the decrees of councils , whether they are to be embraced or not ; for he is to judge whether they are founded on universal tradition ; and so he is not to take the sense of the present church for his guide , but the universal church from christs time : which overthrows a fundamental principle of the roman church . . then he must reject the pretended infallibility in the guides of the church , if they could so notoriously err in a matter of so great consequence to the peace of christendom , as this was ; and consequently their authority could not be sufficient to declare any articles of faith. and so all persons must be left at liberty to believe as they see cause , notwithstanding the definitions made by popes and councils . . then he must believe the guides of the roman church to have been mistaken , not once or twice , but to have persisted in it for five hundred years , which must take away , not only infallibility , but any kind of reverence to the authority of it . for whatever may be said as to those who have depended on princes , or favour their parties against the guides of the church , it cannot be denied that for so long time the leading party in that church did assert and maintain the deposing power . and therefore lessius truely understood this matter , when he said , that there was scarce any article of the christian faith , the denial whereof was more dangerous to the church , or did precipitate men more into heresy and hatred of the church , than this of the deposing power ; for , he says , they could not maintain their churches authority without it . and he reckons up these ill consequences of denying it . . that the roman church hath erred for at least five hundred years , in a matter fundamental as to government , and of great moment : which is worse than an error about sacraments , as penance , extreme unction , &c. and yet those who deny the church can err in one , hold that it hath erred in a greater matter . . that it hath not only erred , but voluntarily and out of ambition , perverting out of design the doctrine of the primitive church and fathers concerning the power of the church , and bringing in another contrary to it , against the right and authority of princes ; which were a grievous sin . . that it made knowingly , unrighteous decrees , to draw persons from their allegiance to princes ; and so they became the causes of many seditions and rebellions , and all the ill consequences of them , under a shew of piety and religion . . that the churches decrees , commands , judgements and censures may be safely contemned as null , and containing intollerable errors . and that it may require such things which good subjects are bound to disobey . . that gregory vii . in the canon nos sanctorum , &c. urban ii. gregory ix . the councils of lateran under alex. iii. and innocent iii. the councils of lyons , of vienna , of constance , of lateran under leo x. and of trent , have all grievously and enormously erred about this matter ; for that it was the doctrine of them all , he shews at large ; and so seven general councils lose their infallibility at one blow . . that the gates of hell have prevailed against the church : for the true church could never teach such pernicious doctrine as this must be , if it be not true . and if it erred in this , it might as well err in any other doctrine , and so men are not bound to believe or obey it . . that princes and all laymen have just cause to withdraw from their church ; because it shewed it self to be governed by a spirit of ambition , and not by the spirit of god ; and not only so , but they may justly prosecute all that maintain a doctrine so pernicious to government , if it be not true . let us now see what our author saith to clear this from being a doctrine of the church of rome . . that for the few authors that are abettors of this doctrine , there are of his communion three times the number that publickly disown all such authority . if this be true , it is not much for the reputation of their church , that there should be such a number of those who are liable to all these dreadful consequences , which lessius urges upon the deniers of it : but is it possible to believe there should be so few followers of so many popes , and seven general councils , owned for such by the disowners of this doctrine , except the lateran under leo . ? the poor eastern christians are condemned for hereticks by the church of rome , for refusing to submit to the decrees of one general council , either that of ephesus , or of chalcedon : and they plead for themselves , that there was a misinterpretation of their meaning , or not right understanding one another about the difference of nature and person , which occasioned those decrees . i would fain know , whether those churches which do not embrace the decrees of those councils , are in a state of heresie or not ? if they be , then what must we think of such who reject the decrees of seven general councils , one after another , and give far less probable accounts of the proceedings of those councils in their definitions , than the other do ? . he saith , those who have condemned it , have not been in the least suspected of their religion , or of denying any article of faith. let any one judg of this by lessius his consequences : and the author of the first treatise against the oath of allegiance saith in plain terms , that the opinion that the pope hath no such power , is erroneous in faith , as well as temerarious and impious ; and he proves it by this substantial argument ; because they who hold it , must suppose that the church hath been for some time in a damnable error of belief , and sin of practice : and he not only proves that it was defined by popes and councils , but for a long time universally received ; and that no one author can be produced before calvins time , that denied this power absolutely , or in any case whatsoever . but a few authors that are abettors of it , saith our representer : not one total dissenter for a long time , saith the other : and which of these is the true representer ? the deniers of it not in the least suspected of their religion ; saith one : their opinion is erroneous in faith , temerarious and impious , saith the other . . if we charge their church with this opinion , may not they as well charge ours with the like ; since propositions as dangerous were condemned at oxford , july . . as held not by jesuits , but by some among our selves ? this is the force of his reasoning : but we must desire the reader to consider the great disparity of the case . we cannot deny , that there have been men of ill minds , and disloyal principles , factious and disobedient , enemies to the government , both in church and state ; but have these men ever had that countenance from the doctrines of the guides of our church , which the deposing doctrine hath had in the church of rome ? to make the case parallel , he must suppose our houses of convocation to have several times declared these damnable doctrines , and given encouragement to rebels to proceed against their kings , and the university of oxford to have condemned them ; for this is truly the case in the church of rome ; the popes and councils have owned , and approved , and acted by the deposing principle ; but the universities of france , of late years , have condemned it . how comes the principles of the regicides among us to be parallel'd with this doctrine , when the principles of our church are so directly contrary to them ; and our houses of convocation would as readily condemn any such damnable doctrines , as the university of oxford ? and all the world knows how repugnant such principles are to those of the church of england ; and none can be rebels to their prince , but they must be false to our church . as to the personal loyalty of many persons in that church , as i have no reason to question it , so it is not proper for me to debate it , if i did ; since our business is not concerning persons , but doctrines ; and it was of old observed concerning the epicureans , that tho their principles did overthrow any true friendship , yet many of them made excellent friends . xxi . of communion in one kind . for our better proceeding in this controversie , i shall set down the state of it as clearly as i can . . the question is not , whether the first institution of the sacrament of the eucharist by jesus christ , were in one kind , or two ; for all confess it was under both kinds . . it is not , whether both kinds are not still necessary for the due celebration of it ; for it is granted that both kinds are necessary to be upon the altar , or else there could be no compleat sacrifice . . it is not , whether the people may be wholly excluded from both kinds , and so the sacrifice only remain ; for they grant that the people are bound to communicate in one kind . . it is not concerning any peculiar and extraordinary cases , where no wine is to be had , or there be a particular aversion to it , or any such thing , where positive institutions may be reasonably presumed to have no force ; but concerning the publick and solemn celebration , and participation of it in the christian church . . it is not concerning the meer disuse or neglect of it , but concerning the lawfulness of excluding the people from both kinds , by the churches prohibition , notwithstanding the institution of it by christ in both kinds , with a command to keep up the celebration of it to his second coming . here now consists the point in controversie , whether the church being obliged to keep up the institution in both kinds , be not equally obliged to distribute both as our saviour did , to as many as partake of it ? our author not denying the institution , or the continuance of it , saith , our saviour left it indifferent to receive it in one kind , or both . and that is the point to be examined . . he saith , christ delivered it to his apostles , who only were then present , and whom he made priests just before ; yet he gave no command that it should be so received by all the faithful . but were not the apostles all the faithful then present ? i pray in what capacity did they then receive it ? as priests ? how did they receive the bread before the hoc facite ? as priests or as faithful ? it is ridiculous to suppose the hoc facite changed their capaciy ; and if it did , it only relates to consecrating , and not to receiving : but if christ gave it only to the apostles as priests , then for all that i can see , the people are not at all concerned in one kind or other ; but it was intended only for priests : if the people be concerned , how came they to be so ? where is there any command but what refers to the first institution ? and it had been more plausible , according to this answer , to exclude the people wholly , than to admit them to one kind , and to debar them the other . . christ attributes the obtaining life everlasting , the end of the institution , sometimes to receiving under both kinds , sometimes under one , john . , , . he could not easily have thought of any thing more against himself ; for our saviour there makes it as necessary to drink his blood , as to eat his flesh , verily , verily , i say unto you , except ye eat the flesh of the son of man , a● drink his blood , ye have no life in you : if this be understood of the sacrament , as he saith , how is it possibl● for him to make the cup indifferent ? unless it be ind● ferent whether the people be saved or not . . christ himself administred the sacrament to some of his disciples under one kind only , luke . . but is he sure christ did then administer the sacrament to them ? or that if he did , the cup was not implied , since breaking of bread , when taken for an ordinary meal in scripture , doth not exclude drinking at it ? but s. augustin , he saith , ( l. . de consensu evangel . ) understands that place of the sacrament . if he doth , it cannot be where he saith ; for s. augustin wrote but four books of that subject ; but l. . . he doth say something towards it ; yet s. augustin in another place supposes that these disciples did both eat and drink . the disciples did not know him , but in the breaking of bread ; and truely he that doth not eat and drink judgment to himself , doth in the breaking of bread own christ. where it is plain , that he applies both , to the breaking of bread here spoken of . . he saith , it was the custom of the primitive christians to give it under one kind to children , the sick , and to men in a journey . i would he had produced his authorities to prove these things ; for i can bring several to prove the direct contrary as to children , and sick persons , and travellers , and not only ancient writers , but the most learned of their own church . and therefore i cannot but wonder to find him saying , this was attested by all ancient writers , and modern historians . but i have ever found those have been most mistaken , who produce all writers and historians ; when it may be , there is not one that speaks home to the business . at least , we have here none mentioned , and therefore none to examin ; and it would be too hard a task to search all. . he adds to this extravagancy , in saying , that receiving in one or both kinds , was indifferent for the first four hundred years ; when the contrary is so manifest , that the most ingenuous of their own writers consess it . if any persons did carry home one kind ( which is very questionable ; for baronius and albasinoeus say , they carried both kinds ) to receive it in times of persecution , at what season they thought fit afterwards ; this ought not to be set up against the general and constant rule of the church ; which is attested , not only by cassander and such like , but even by salmero , ruardus , tapperus , and lindanus , who make no scruple of saying , the publick celebration in the primitive church was in both kinds . but then , how is it possible for us to judge better , what they thought themselves bound to do , than what they constantly observed in all their publick celebrations ? the church is not accountable for the particular fancies or superstitions of men ; but what was observed in all publick offices , we have reason to think the church thought it self obliged so to do , out of regard to the institution of christ. and to shew how universal this observation was in the church , those who give account of the eastern church say , that the greeks , nestorians , armenians , maronites , cophtites and abyssins , do all observe it still , viz. that the publick communicants do partake of both kinds . and not one of all these churches but think themselves bound to observe it , out of regard to the institution of christ ; and why then should any think the primitive church thought it indifferent ? . the first precept of receiving under both kinds , was given to the faithful by pope leo , a. d. . and confirmed by gelasius , a. d. . this is a great mistake , for leo gave no precept about it ; but only told the people how they might certainly discover the manichees , for they would conform in other things , but they would not taste of the wine : which argued , that all other communicants did then partake in both kinds . gelasius not only confirms the custom then used , but he saith , that it is sacriledge to divide that holy mystery . and surely he did not account sacriledge an indifferent thing . . lastly he saith , that those who receive in one kind , are truely partakers of the whole sacrament . this is a new way of concomitancy ; we used to hear of whole christ under either species , and that whole christ was therefore received ; but how comes it to be the whole sacrament , which consists of two distinct parts ? and if it be a sacrifice , the blood must be separated from the body , else the blood of christ is not considered as shed , and so the notion of the sacrifice will be lost ; which is our next head. xxii . of the mass . under this head , which is thought of so great consequence in the roman church , i expected a fuller representation than i here find ; as about the opus operatum , i. e. how far the meer act is effectual ; about their solitary masses , when no person receives but the priest ; about the people having so little to do , or understand , in all the other parts of the mass ; about the rites and ceremonies of the mass , how useful and important they are ; about reconciling the present canon of the mass , with the present practises ; about offering up masses for the honour of saints . all which we find in the council of trent , but are omitted by our representer ; who speaks of the mass , as though there were no controversy about it , but only concerning the sacrifice there supposed to be offered up , and which he is far from true representing : for the council of trent not only affirms a true proper propitiatory sacrifice to be there offered up for the quick and dead , but denounces anathema's against those that deny it . so that the question is not , whether the eucharist may not in the sense of antiquity be allow'd to be a commemorative sacrifice , as it takes in the whole action ; but whether in the mass there be such a representation made to god of christ's sacrifice , as to be it self a true and propitiatory sacrifice for the sins of the quick and the dead ? now , all that our representer saith to the purpose , is , . that christ bequeathed his body and blood at his last supper , under the species of bread and wine , not only a sacrament , but also a sacrifice . i had thought it had been more proper to have offered a sacrifice , than to have bequeathed it . and this ought to have been proved , as the foundation of this sacrifice , viz. that christ did at his last supper offer up his body and blood , as a propitiatory sacrifice to god. and then what need his suffering on the cross ? . he gave this in charge to his apostles , as the first and chief priests of the new-testament , and to their successors , to offer . but where ? when ? and how ? for we read nothing at all of it in scripture . christ indeed did bid them do the same thing he had there done in his last supper . but did he then offer up himself , or not ? if not , how can the sacrifice be drawn from his action ? if he did , it is impossible to prove the necessity of his dying afterwards . . this sacrifice was never questioned till of late years . we say , it was never determined to be a propitiatory sacrifice , till of late . we do not deny the fathers interpreting mal. . . of an offering under the gospel ; but they generally understand it of spiritual and ecclesiastical sacrifices ; and although some of them , by way of accommodation , do apply it to the eucharist , yet not one of them doth make it a propitiatory sacrifice , which was the thing to be proved : for , we have no mind to dispute about metaphorical sacrifices , when the council of trent so positively decrees it to be a true , proper , and propitiatory sacrifice . xxiii . of purgatory . here our author begins with proving from scripture and antiquity , and then undertakes to explain the doctrine of purgatory from substantial reasons . . as to his proof from scripture . . is that from maccab. c. . where he saith , money was sent to jerusalem , that sacrifices might be offered for the slain ; and 't is recommended as a holy cogitation , to pray for the dead . to this , which is the main foundation of purgatory , i answer , . it can never prove such a purgatory as our author asserts ; for he supposes a sinner reconciled to god , as to eternal punishment , before he be capable of purgatory ; but here can be no such supposition ; for these men died in the sin of achan , which was not known till their bodies were found among the slain . here was no confession , or any sign of repentance , and therefore if it proves any thing , it is deliverance from eternal punishment , and for such as dye in their sins without any shew of repentance . . we must distinguish the fact of judas from the interpretation of jason , or his epitomizer . the fact of judas was according to the strictness of the law , which required in such cases a sin-offering ; and that is all which the greek implies , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and so leo allatius confesses all the best greek copies agree ; and he reckons twelve of them . now what doth this imply , but that judas remembring the severe punishment of this sin in the case of achan , upon the people , sent a sin-offering to jerusalem ? but saith leo allatius , it was the sin of those men that were slain . i grant it . but the question is , whether the sin-offering respected the dead or the living ? for the law in such a case required a sin-offering for the congregation . and why should not we believe so punctual a man for the law , as judas , did strictly observe it in this point ? but the author of the book of macchabees understands it of those that were slain . i do not deny it ; but then . we have no reason to rely upon his authority in this matter ; which i shall make appear by a parallel instance . he doth undoubtedly commend the fact of razias in killing himself ( . macc. . . ) when he saith he did it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , like a brave man ; and if he had thought it a fault in him , he would never have given such a character of it , but he would have added something of caution after it . and it is no great advantage to purgatory , for him that commends self-murder to have introduced it . the most probable account i can give of it is , that the alexandrian jews , of whose number jason of cyrene seems to have been , had taken in several of the philosophical opinions , especially the platonists , into their religion , as appears by philo ; and bellarmin himself confesses , that plato held a purgatory ; and they were ready to apply what related to the law , to their platonick notions . so here the law appointed a sin-offering with respect to the living ; but jason would needs have this refer to the dead ; and then sets down his own remark upon it , that it was a holy cogitation to pray for the dead ; as our author renders it . if it were holy with respect to the law , there must be some ground for it in the law. and that we appeal to : and do not think any particular fancies sufficient to introduce such a novelty as this was ; which had no foundation eithe● in the law or the prophets . and it woul be strange for a new doctrine to be set up , when the spirit of prophecy was ceased among them . but s. august . hold these books for canonical , and saith , they are so received by the church , l. . de civit de● . to answer this , it is sufficient to observe , not only the different opinions of others before mentioned as to these books : but that as canus notes , it was then lawful to doubt of their authority : and he goes as low as gregory i. whom he denies not to have rejected them . and i hope we may set the authority of one against the other ; especially when s. august in himself , being pressed hard with the fact of razias , confesses , . that the jews have not the book of macchabees in their canon , as they have the law , the prophets , and the psalms , to whom our lord gave testimony as to his witnesses . which is an evident proof , he thought not these books sufficient to ground a doctrine upon , which was not found in the other . . that however this book was not unprofitably received by the church , if it be soberly read and heard . which implies a greater caution than s. augustin would ever have given , concerning a book he believed truely canonical . but saith bellarmin , his meaning is only to keep men from imitating the example of razias ; whereas that which they pressed s. august in with , was not meerly the fact , but the character that is given of it . sanctarum scripturarum auctoritate laudatus est razias , are their very words in s. augustin . and therefore the caution relates to the books , and not meerly to his example . and he lessens the character given by the author , when he saith , he chose to dye nobly ; it had been better , saith he , to have died humbly . but the other is the elogium given in the heathen histories , and better becomes brave heathens , than true martyrs . can any one now think s. augustin believed this writer divinely inspired , or his doctrine sufficient to ground a point of faith upon ? and i wonder they should not every jot as well commend self-murder as an heroical act , as prove the doctrine of purgatory from these words of jason , or his epitomizer . for the argument from the authority of the book , will hold as strongly for one as the other . and yet this is the achilles for purgatory ; which natalis alexander ( whom our author follows in this matter ) saith , is a demonstrative place against those that deny it . but i must proceed . . purgatory is plainly intimated by our saviour , matt. . . whosoever speaketh against the holy-ghost , it shall not be forgiven him , neither in this world , neither in the world to come . by which words , christ evidently supposes , that some sins are forgiven in the world to come . i am so far from discerning this plain intimation , that i wonder how any came to think of it out of this place . well! but doth it not hence follow , that sins may be forgiven in the world to come ? not near so plainly , as that sins will not be forgiven in the world to come . not that particular sin , but others may ; how doth that appear ? what intimation is there , that any sins not forgiven here , shall be forgiven there ? or that any sins here remitted as to the eternal punishment , shall be there remitted as to the temporal ? and without such a kind of remission , nothing can be inferred from hence . but if there be a remission in another world , it can be neither in heaven nor hell , therefore it must be in purgatory . but those who own a remission of sins in another world , say it will be on the day of judgment : for the actual deliverance of the just from punishment , may be not improperly called the full remission of their sins . so s. augustin , whom he quotes , plainly saith , si nulla remitterentur in judicio illo novissimo , &c. c. julian , l. . c. . where it is evident s. augustin takes this place to relate to the day of judgment ; and so in the other , ( de civit. dei l. . c. . ) but as he supposed a remission , so he did a purgation as by fire in that day . in illo judicio poenas quasdam purgatorias futuras . de civit. dei l. . c. . and so he is to be understood on psal. . to which he applies cor. . . but our author was very much out , when he saith s. augustin applied pet. . . to some place of temporal chastisement in another world , when bellarmin sets himself to confute s. augustin about it , as understanding it of this world. and therefore he hath little cause to boast of s. augustins authority about purgatory , unless he had brought something more to the purpose out of him . his other testimonies of antiquity are not worth considering ; which he borrows from natalis alexander ; that of dionysius areopag . eccl. hierarch . c. . is a known counterfeit , and impertinent , relating to a region of rest and happiness . and so do tertullians oblations for the dead , de cor. milit. c. . for they were eucharistical , as appears by the ancient liturgies , being made for the greatest saints . st. cyprian ep. . speaks of an oblation for the dead ; and he there mentions the natalitia of the martyrs ; but by comparing that with his epist. . it will be found that he speaks of the anniversary commemoration of the dead , which signifies nothing to purgatory ; for the best men were put into it ; and st. cyprian threatens it as a punishment to be left out of the diptychs ; but surely it is none to escape purgatory ; arnobius , l. . only speaks of praying for the dead , which we deny not to have been then used in the church , not with respect to any temporary pains in purgatory , but to the day of judgment : and therein lies the true state of the controversie , with respect to antiquity ; which is not , whether any solemn prayers were not then made for the dead ; but whether those prayers did relate to their deliverance out of a state of punishment before the day of judgment : for whatever state souls were then supposed to be in , before the great day , if there could be no deliverance till the day of judgment , it signisies nothing to the present question . as to the vision of perpetua concerning her brother dinocrates , who died at seven years old , being baptized , it is hardly reconcilable to their own doctrine , to suppose such a soul in purgatory ; i will not deny that perpetua did think she saw him in a worse condition ; and thought likewise that by her prayers she brought him into a better ; for she saw him playing like little children ; and then she awaked , and concluded that she had given him ease : but is it indeed come to this , that such a doctrine as purgatory must be built on such a foundation as this ? i do not call in question the acts of perpetua , nor her sincerity in relating her dream ; but must the church build her doctrines upon the dreams or visions of young ladies , tho very devout ? for ubia perpetua was then but twenty two , as she saith her self . but none are to be blamed , who make use of the best supports their cause will afford . it is time now to see what strength of reason he offers for purgatory . . he saith , when a sinner is reconciled to god , tho the eternal punishment due to his sins is always remitted , yet there sometimes remains a temporal penalty to be undergone ; as in the case of the israelites , and david . but doth it hence follow , that there is a temporal penalty that must be undergone either here or hereafter , without which there will be no need of purgatory ? who denies , that god in this life , for example sake , may punish those whose sins he hath promised to remit as to another world ? this is therefore a very slender foundation . . there are some sins of their own nature light and venial . i will not dispute that ; but suppose there be , must men go then into purgatory for mere venial sins ? what a strange doctrine doth this appear to any mans reason ? that god should forgive the greater sins , and require so severe a punishment for sins in their own nature venial ; i. e. so inconsiderable in their opinion , that no man is bound to confess them ; which do not interrupt a state of grace ; which require only an implicite detestation of them ; which do not deserve eternal punishment ; which may be remitted by holy water , or a bishops blessing , as their divines agree . . that to all sins some penalty is due to the justice of god. and what follows from hence but the necessity of christs satisfaction ? but how doth it appear , that after the expiation of sin by christ , and the remission of eternal punishment , there still remains a necessity of farther satisfaction for such a temporal penalty in another world ? . that generally speaking , few men depart out of this life , but either with the guilt of venial sins , or obnoxions to some temporal punishment ; no doubt all men are obnoxious by their sins to the punishment of another world ; but that is not the point , but whether god hath declared , that altho he remits the eternal punishment , he will not the temporal ; and altho he will forgive thousands of pounds , he will not the pence and farthings we owe to him : but if mortal sins be remitted as to the guilt , and venial do not hinder a state of grace , what room is there for vindictive justice in purgatory ? yet this is the doctrine which so much weight is laid upon ; that bellarmine saith , they must go directly to hell , who do not believe purgatory . if this be true , why was it not put into the representation , that we might understand the danger of not believing so credible , so reasonable a doctrine as this ? but we believe it to be a much more dangerous thing to condemn others for not believing a doctrine which hath so very slender a pretence either to scripture or reason . xxiv . of praying in an unknown tongue . the question in short is , whether the church-service , at which persons are bound to assist , ought not to be in a language understood by those who are bound to assist ? for our author grants , that a papist is bound to assist at the church-service , and to hear mass ; but he is not bound to understand the words there spoken . this is a plain state of the case ; and one would have thought st. pauls discourse about edification in the church-service , and a known tongue , and the primitive practice , had deserved a little consideration , but not a word is said to either of them ; and the whole is so managed , as tho there had been no rule , or any appearance of practice to the contrary . but i must consider what he doth say . . the mass is a sacrifice : and what then ? have they no other church-service but the mass ? what then becomes of their breviaries , litanies , and all other offices ? but suppose the priests office in the mass , be to offer the sacrifice ; are there no prayers in the canon of the mass , wherein the people are concerned ? why must not they understand what they are required to assist in prayer for ? if they have english books , as he saith , to teach them every part and ceremony of the mass , why not as well the prayers in the mass , wherein they are to join ? they tell us , it is unseasonable then for the people to say their beads , and other devotions : and i suppose as unseasonable to talk , or think of other matters . why then should not they know what it is they are to do , and what petitions they are then to make to god ? are there no responses to be made ? no lessons to be read ? no creed : to be professed ? doth not the priest speak to the people to pray , and they answer him ? is there no thanksgiving after the communion which the people is concerned in ? we are as much for their devout affections , as they can be ; but we think they are not hindred by understanding what they are about : we cannot but wonder , that any man should say , that it nothing concerns his devotion , that the mass is in latin , if he understand it not . is it no part of devotion to join in the publick prayers , not merely by rote , but from a due apprehension of the matter contained in them ? he requires , that they accompany the priest in prayer and spirit : and why not in understanding also ? but the church hath so ordered it : and that is the thing we complain of , as done against st. paul , against the primitive church , against the natural sense of mankind , who think it is fit for them to know what they do , especially in the worship of god : but it is to preserve unity : methinks however unity in spirit and understanding is better than without it : there are other good reasons : i know not one good one ; and if there were more , he would have produced them : the greatest part is said in a low voice , that it is not possible he should hear it : and to what purpose should it be spoken louder , if they are not to understand it ? but why so low in publick ? yet the people might have books , and join , if they understood what was said . but why should not the rest be understood , which is spoken as if it were . . as to other offices , he saith , he is taught , that he may perform them in a language which he understands not , with great benefit to his soul , and the acceptance of god , if at those occasions he endeavours to raise his thoughts to heaven , and fix his heart upon his maker . but the question is not , whether a man may not have devout thoughts at that time , but whether he can perform his part in the publick offices , with true devotion , without understanding ? for the publick offices of devotion were designed for the uniting the hearts and desires of the people in the same things . it is not , whether one man may not pray for heaven , and another for fair weather , and another for pardon of his sins , and a fourth for patience , and so on , in the same place , and at the same time ; for all this may be done as well in a silent meeting , where not a word is spoken : but there being one form of prayer for all to join together in , that with the united force of the whole congregation , their petitions may go up to heaven ; the matter now in dispute is , whether it be not necessary in order to this united devotion , that the people all know what they pray for ? and one would think nothing need to be said to prove this : but what our author adds in justification of this , overthrows all publick devotion ; for he saith , it is not necessary to have attention on the words , or on the sense of prayers , but rather purely on god : which is to make all publick forms unnecessary , and to turn all devotion into prayer of contemplation : for if this be true , all forms whatsoever , are not only useless , but burdensom ; and by the stinting the spirit , do hinder the nimbler flights of the soul , in pure silence towards god : and this principle must lead men to enthusiasms , and unintelligible unions , and make them despise forms as a mean and dull dispensation . but at last he saith , a petitioner may accompany his petition with an earnest desire of obtaining it , tho the language in which it is written , be unknown to him . very true , if he indited the matter of the petition , and trusted another to put it into that language , which the person to whom he makes it , doth understand , but not his own : but all languages are alike to gods infinite wisdom , and so there can be no pretence on that account , to keep only to some particular tongues , tho unknown to the party ; and if it were so to all men , no man would have a petition presented in a language which he did not know : but in prayer to god , the design of it is not to acquaint him with something which he knew not , but to excite the hearts and affections of men to an earnest desire of the things which are fit for them to ask ; now let any man undertake to prove , that mens affections are as easily moved by words they do not understand , as by those they do ; and i will give up this cause . xxv . of the second commandment . the dispute about this is not , whether the second commandment may be found in any of their books , but by what authority it comes to be left out in any : as he confesses it is in their short catechisms and manuals : but not only in these ; for i have now before me the reformed office of the blessed virgin , printed at salamanca , a. d. . published by order of pius v. where it is so left out : and so in the english office at antwerp , a. d. . i wish he had told us in what publick office of their church it is to be found : but himself pleads for the leaving it out , when he saith , the people are in no danger of superstition or idolatry by it ; since the first commandment secures them from it ; and there is nothing in this , but what is vertually contained in the first , and is rather an explanation , than a new and distinct precept . but is this so plain and clear , that a mans conscience can never make any just and reasonable doubt concerning it ? there is a terrible sanction after it ; and men had need go upon very good grounds in a matter of such moment . hath god himself any where declared this to be only an explication of the first commandment ? have the prophets , or christ and his apostles ever done it ? how then can any mans conscience be safe in this matter ? for it is not a trifling controversie , whether it be a distinct commandment , or an explication of the first ; but the lawfulness or unlawfulness of the worship of images depends very much upon it : for if it be only an explication of the first , then unless one takes images to be gods , their worship is lawful , and so the heathens were excused in it , who were not such ideots ; but if it be a new and distinct precept , then the worshipping any image or similitude , becomes a grievous sin , and exposes men to the wrath of god in that severe manner mentioned in the end of it : and it is a great confirmation that this is the true meaning of it , because all the primitive writers of the christian church , not only thought it a sin against this commandment , but insisted upon the force of it against those heathens who denied that they took their images for gods : and therefore this is a very insufficient account of leaving out the second commandment . xxvi . of mental reservations . under this head he denies two things . . that they are ever taught to break faith with hereticks . . that their church doth allow any equivocations , or mental reservations . as to the former i am sincerely glad to find a principle so destructive to all humane society , so utterly disowned , when he saith , he is taught to keep faith with all sorts of people , of whatsoever judgment or perswasion they be ; and to stand to his word , and observe his promise given , or made to any whatsoever . and whatever opinions and practices there may have been of that kind formerly , we hope there will never be occasion given to revive that dispute . . as to the second , we embrace his declaration against it , and hope there is no equivocation , or mental reservation in it . but there are some things which must here be taken notice of . . he cannot deny that there are authors in communion with his church , which may be charged with teaching another doctrine ; and those not a few , nor inconsiderable ; who not only allow the practice of mental reservations and equivocations , but say with great confidence , it hath been received in the roman church for no less than four hundred years ; and that in some cases they are all still agreed in it . see parsons treatise of mitigation , c. . sect. . . c. . sect. . . we do not deny , that innocent xi . hath condemned equivocations , and mental reservations in swearing , as at least scandalous and pernicious in practise ; and therefore we cannot charge the pope with abetting this doctrine . but we cannot but reflect on what our author said about the deposing doctrine , that although popes had believed it , and acted by it , yet the greater number opposed it . and what shall we say in this case , if the generality of their casuists in some cases approve it , and think it no lie or perjury , as in that of confession ; but if it be really so in any one case , then it may be some other fault , but it is not a lie or perjury in any other , when a man doth not think himself bound to speak all he knows . . that as we highly commend the popes condemning such doctrines and practises now ; so we have reason to think the contrary did not once want the encouragement and approbation of the roman see. as may be sound in the resolution of some cases by pius v. relating to some missionaries , who were to be sent hither ; and then it was declared , that if they were summon'd before our judges , they might sophistice jurare & sophistice respondere ; and that they were not bound to answer according to the intention of the judges , but according to some true sense of their own , i. e. which was made true by the help of a mental reservation . but it is very well , that now the very same things are condemned at rome , as scandalous and pernicious in practise . xxvii . of a death-bed repentance . we have no difference with them about this matter , as far as they hold to these points : . that men are strictly obliged to work out their salvation with fear and trembling in time of health . . that it is very dangerous to defer their repentance to the last . . that if any are surprized , they ought in charity to have all possible assistance , to put them into the best way for their salvation . but yet there may be some particular doctrines owned in the church of rome , which may give men too much encouragement to put off true repentance ; as . the easiness of being put into a state of grace by the sacrament of penance ; for which no more is required than removing the impediment ; as appears by the council of trent . sess. . can. . and afterwards it defines that bare attrition doth sufficiently dispose a man to receive grace in that sacrament , sess. . c. . so that altho a man hath led a very bad life , if he hath but this attrition for his sins when he doth confess them , he is put into a state of grace by this sacrament . and what can any man expect more , and what can he do less ! i do not mean a bare natural attrition , the sufficiency whereof is condemned by innocent xi . in the same proposition , fifty seventh ; but that which the council of trent calls imperfect contriti●n , i. e. a good motion in a mans mind to ●orsake his sins for fear of punishment ; if really no more be required for a state of grace but this , it is no wonder if men put off the doing of that which may be done at any time so easily by the help of a priest. . the treasure of the church is another thing which is very apt to hinder mens speedy repentance ; for by that they believe there is a stock ready of so many merits and satisfactions of others , if duely applied to them by indulgences , that they need not be at such pains to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling . when a man by the sacrament of penance is put into a state of grace , the eternal punishment is discharged , and nothing remains but some temporal pains ; and to ease him of these he hath many helps , but especially the treasure of the church , which the pope hath the dispensing of , as he is bound to believe ; and by indulgences he may easily get off some thousands of years of purgatory-pains ; and if these should fail him , there is another help yet left , which is leaving a stock for prayers for his soul when he dies ; which , even our author assures him , are very available towards bis speedier release out of purgatory , p. . xxviii . of fasting . the question here is , whether a man doth not observe their churches command about fasting , who forbears all forbidden things , but takes liberty in those which are not forbidden ? it is not , whether they may not break the commands of god , against gluttony and drunkenness ; but whether they break the law of the church about fasting ? and notwithstanding what our author hath said , i see no reason for the affirmative . i do not deny , . that it is a very indifferent sort of fasting , to abstain from flesh , unless all other sorts of excesses at the same time be carefully avoided . . that excesses on such days are more scandalous , because there is a pretence of fasting . . that god's command doth at all times sorbid intemperance . which are the chief things he insists upon . but yet this doth not reach the point , which is about their churches command . for their casuists distinguish fasting into . natural ; which is total abstinence ; and this is required only in order to receiving the eucharist . . moral ; which is the same with temperance , or fasting for health . . ecclesiastical ; which is defined by them to be , an abstinence from food forbidden by the church . and if this definition be true , it cannot be broken but by eating what the church hath prohibited . and therefore their casuists , as far as i can find , are agreed in these things , . that a man may eat a full meal of what is not forbidden , and not break the churches precept of fasting , provided vespers be first said . and the later casuists blame covarr●vias for making any scruple about it . if a mans excess comes to be a mortal sin ; yet for all that , saith reginaldus , he shall not be judged as a breaker of his fast. nay , lessius goes further , and saith , he doth not lose the merit of fasting . quamvis aliquis multum excedet non solvit jejunium , saith card. tolet. and paulus zacchias saith , this is the common opinion ; and he thinks the intention of the church is sufficiently answered . and so doth pasqualigus in his praxis of fasting . . a man may drink wine , or other drink , as often as he pleaseth , without breaking his fast. he may toties quoties bibere , saith diana . zach. pasqualigus , who hath written most fully on this subject , shews , that it is the general opinion , that no quantity of wine or other drink , though taken without any necessity , is a violation of the precept of fasting ; no , not although the wine be taken for nourishment , because the church doth not forbid it ; but this last , he saith , is not the general , but the more probable opinion . . a man may eat something when he drinks , to prevent its doing him hurt ; besides his good meal , he may take what quantity he pleases of sweet-meats or fruit ; he may have a good refection at night , and yet not break this strict precept of fasting ; for the eating as often as one drinks , it is the common opinion , saith the same casuist ( who was no jesuit ) that it is not forbidden , because it is taken by way of a medicine ; and he quotes a great number of their casuists for it . a collation at evening is all●wed , saith he . and lessius saith , there is no certain rule for the quantity of it . and card. tolet saith , very large ones are all●wed at rome by the popes connivence ; even in the court of rome , saith reginaldus . and now i leave the reader to judge of the severity of fasting requir●d in the church of rome . xxix . of divisions and schisms in the church . two things he saith upon this head. . that they are all agreed in matters of faith. . that they only differ in some school points ; from whence he infers , that they have no schisms or separations among them . but that this is no just consequence , will appear by the schisms and separations among us , made by such who profess to agree in all matters of faith. yet let us see how he proves that they agree in all matters of faith ; because they agree to submit equally to the determinations of the church . now this very way evidently proves that they do not all agree , because they do not equally submit to the churches determinations . for , . some say they are bound to submit to the churches determinations , as it represents the universal church ; others say no ; but as the churches power is virtually lodged in the guides of it . now this is a very material difference : for if it be on the former account , then not the popes and councils declarations are to be regarded , but as they express the sense of the universal church ; and so the majority of votes , and numbers in the representative and diffusive church is chiefly to be regarded . and on this ground some reject the deposing-power , though plainly decreed by popes and councils ; but they unhinge their churches authority by it : now how is it possible for them to agree about matters of faith , who differ fundamentally about the way how any things come to be matters of faith. if they be decreed by popes and councils , say some ; and so the deposing power is become an article of faith. no such matter , say others , for a greater number in the diffusive church oppose it , as in the gallican church , and elsewhere . very well ! but how then can these parties be said to agree in matters of faith. and an equal submission to the determinations of the church ? . some again say , that it is not the consent of the present church can make any article of faith , but there must be an universal tradition from the apostles times . and so they tell us the deposing power can never be an article of faith , because it wants the consent of all the ages before gregory vii . so that upon this ground there can be no article of faith which cannot be proved to be thus delivered down to us . others again say , this is in effect to give up their cause , knowing the impossibility of proving particular points in this manner ; and therefore they say , the present church is wholly to be trusted for the sense of the foregoing . now these differences are still on foot in their church ; and from these do arise daily disputes about matters of faith , and the seat of infallibility , whether in the guides , or the body of the church ; if the former , whether in the church representative , or virtual ? whether the personal infallibilty of the pope be a matter of faith or not ? our author saith , not ; others say , yes ; and yet he saith they are agreed in matters of faith. so that by his own confession they differ about other things than mere school-points . but suppose they were agreed in articles of faith , can there be no schisms or divisions in their church ? what thinks he of all the schisms between popes and popes ? of all the schisms between the popes and the emperors parties ? which were as notorious , and scandalous , and mischievous , as ever were in the world. what thinks he of the schisms between the bishops and the regular orders , which were as cross and peevish towards the bishops and secularclergy , as our dissenters themselves ? and among the regular orders , what heats and contentions have been , not about the practice of a devout life , i assure him , but about matters of doctrine ; and which both parties severally plead to be matters of faith ? as in the noted controversies of this last age , about the immaculate conception of the blessed virgin , the power of grace , and the popes personal infallibility ; and they cannot say they are as yet agreed about these things . xxx . of friars and nuns . our dispute is not , about the lawfulness of retiring from the world by such persons who are rendred unfit for doing service in it ; and the more they spend their time in devotion and contemplation , so much the better . but it lies in these things , . whether the perfection of a christian state of life lies in being cloystered up from the world , or labouring to do good in it ? for this was the great snare made use of , to draw men into it , because they represented this as the most perfect state ; whereas according to the doctrine and example of christ and his apostles , the active life of doing good , is far beyond it . . whether , altho such a retirement be allowed , it be a thing pleasing to god , to tye such persons up by indispensable vows , whatever their circumstances may be , not to alter that state of life ; who either in youth , or through force , passion , or discontent , have entred into it ? and this may be so much rather questioned , because those who assert the pope may dispense , go upon this ground , because circumstances may alter the obligation of a vow ; and when a greater good is to be attained , it ceaseth to oblige ; which to my apprehension doth not prove the popes power to dispense , but the dispensable nature of the vows themselves . whether all things of this nature being liable in continuance of time , to great degeneracy and corruptions ; and the numbers of such places being unserviceable either to church or state , it be not in the power of the king and states of the kingdom , to dissolve and reduce them to ways more suitable to the conveniencies of both ? as to what he discourses about councils of perfection , the distractions of the world , the corruptions of the best things , &c. they reach not the main points , but are only general topicks , which we are not concerned to debate . xxxi . of wicked principles and practices . the misrepresenter charges the church of rome with many horrid practices , as the french and irish massacres , the murders of two kings of france , the holy league , the gun-powder treason , &c. and charges these as being done according to the principles of that church . but in answer to this he saith . . in general , that the doctrine of it is holy , teaching the love of god and our neighbour ; and that none can be saved by faith alone . in which doctrine we heartily concur with them . . that altho many uncertain things pass for certain , and false for true , yet he cannot deny that all ranks and degrees of men have been corrupted among them , being scandalous in their lives , wicked . in their designs , without the fear of god in their hearts , or care of their own salvation . this is a general acknowledgment , but no particular answer to the things objected . . that tbe whole cburch is not to be charged for the sake of such villanies . very true , unless some doctrine owned in that church gave encouragement to them : as suppose any should ever have fallen into rebellion upon the belief of the deposing power ; is not that doctrine chargeable with the consequences of it ? they are extremely to blame who charge a church with what her members do in direct opposition to her doctrine ; but it is quite another case , when the main ground they alledg for their actions is some allowed principle in it . . they are not accountable for the actions of every bishop , cardinal , or pope ; for they extend not their faith beyond the declaration of general councils . but suppose general councils have declared such doctrines , and popes act but according to them ; is not their church then accountable for their actions ? . there is more praying and fasting , and receiving the sacraments , more visiting the prisoners , and the sick , more alms-giving in any of our neighbouring popish towns , as . paris , antwerp , gant , &c. than in any ten towns of the reformation . and is there more charity too ? it doth not appear , if they be as ready to censure others , and admire themselves , as our author , who so freely gives his judgment about a matter it is impossible for him to know . we see no reason to admire or imitate the manner of their praying , and fasting , and receiving the sacraments ; for to pray without understanding , to fast without abstinence , to receive a maimed sacrament , are things we do not envy them for ; but altho our devotion be not so pompous , and full of shew , yet we may pray and fast in secret , according to our saviours directions , far more than they do ; however our people are mightily to blame if they do not understand what they pray for , if they do not receive more of the sacrament than they ; and we verily believe there is as great and remarkable instances of true charity among those of the church of england , as among any people in the world. xxxii . of miracles . . our author saith , he is not obliged to believe any one miracle besides what is in scripture . . he sees no reason to doubt the truth of many miracles , which are attested by great numbers of eye-witnesses , examined by authority , and found upon record , with all the formalities due to such a process . now , how can these two things stand together ? is not a man obliged to believe a thing so well proved ? and if his other arguments prove any thing , it is , that he is bound to believe them . for he thinks there is as much reason to believe miracles still , as in the time of the old or new law. if he can make this out , i see no reason why he should not be as well obliged to believe them now , as well as those recorded in scripture . but i can see nothing like a proof of this . and all persons of judgment in their own church , do grant there is a great difference between the necessity of miracles for the first establishing a religion , and afterwards . this is not only asserted by tostatus , erasmus , stella , andradius , and several others formerly ; but the very late french author i have several times mentioned , saith it in express terms . and he confesses the great impostures of modern miracles , which , he saith , ought to be severely punished ; and that none but women and weak people think themselves bound to believe them . and he cannot understand what they are good for : not to convert hereticks ; because not done among them : not to prove there are no corruptions or errors among them , which is a thing incredible ; with much more to that purpose , and so concludes with monsieur paschal , that if they have no other use , we ought not to be amused with them . but christ promised , that his apostles should do greater miracles than himself had done . and what then ? must therefore s. francis , or s. dominic , or s. rosa , do as great as the apostles had done ? what consequence can be drawn from the apostles times to latter ages ? we do not dispute god's omnipotency , or say his hand is sho●tned ; but we must not from thence infer , that every thing which is called a miracle is truely so ; or make use of god's power , to justify the most incredible stories . which is a way will serve as well for a false as a true religion ; and mahomet might run to gods omnipotency for cleaving the moon in two pieces , as well as others for removing a house over the seas , or any thing of a like nature . but , he saith , their miracles are not more ridiculous and absurd than some in the old testament . which i utterly deny ; but i shall not run out into the examination of this parallel , by shewing how very different the nature , design , and authority of the miracles he mentions , is from those which are believed in the roman church . and it had been but fitting , as he set down the miracles of the old testament , so to have mentioned those of the roman church which were to vye with them ; but this he was willing to forbear , for certain good reasons . if most of poor man's impossibles be none to god , as he concludes , yet every thing is not presently true which is not impossible ; and by this way of arguing , there can be nothing objected against the most absurd and idle fictions of the golden legend , which all men of understanding among themselves , not only reject for want of authority , but of credibility . xxxiii . of holy water . the misrepresenter charges him with approving superstitious uses of inanimate things , and attributing wonderful effects to them ; as holy-water , candles , oyl , bread , &c. in answer , our author . declares , that the papist truely represented , utterly disapproves all sorts of superstition . but if he had designed to have represented truely , he ought to have told us what he meant by superstition , and whether any man who observes the commands of the church can be guilty of it . . he saith , that these things are particularly deputed by the prayers and blessing of the priest to certain uses for god's glory , and the spiritual and corporal good of christians . this is somewhat too general ; but marsilius columna , archbishop of salerno , who hath taken most pains in this matter , sums them up ; . as to spiritual , they are seven . . to fright devils . . to remit venial sins . . to cure distractions . . to elevate the mind . . to dispose it for devotion . . to obtain grace . . to prepare for the sacrament . . as to corporal . . to cure barrenness . . to multiply goods . . to procure health . . to purge the air from pestilential vapours . and now , as our author saith , what superstition in the use of it ? he names several things of god's own appointing to parallel it ; as the waters of jealousy , the shew-bread , the tables of stone ; but the first was miraculous , the other had no such effects that we ever heard of . elisha's salt for sweetning the water , was undoubtedly a miracle . is the holy water so ? as to the liver of the fish for expelling the devil , in the book of tobit , he knows the book is not owned for canonical by us ; and this very place is produced as an argument against it ; there being no ground from scripture , to attribute the power of expelling devils , to the liver of a fish , either naturally or symbolically : vallesius offers at the only probable account of it , that it must be a divine power given to it , which the angel raphael did not discover ; and yet it is somewhat hard to conceive , how this liver should have such a power to drive away any kind of devil , as it is there expressed , unless by a devil there , no more be meant than some violent disease , which the jews generally believed to arise from the possession of evil spirits : but however here is an angel supposed , who made this known to tobit ; but we find not raphael to discover the virtue of holy water against devils . as to christs using clay to open the eyes of the blind , it is very improperly applied , unless the same miraculous power be supposed in it , which was in christ himself : and so is the apostles laying on of hands , and using oyl for miraculous cures ; unless the same gift of miracles be in every priest which consecrates holy water , which was in the apostles : and bellarmine himself confesses , that no infallible effect doth follow the use of holy water , because there is no promise of god in the case , but only the prayers of the church : but these are sufficient to sanctifie the water , saith our author : and to what end ? for all the spiritual and corporeal benefits before-mentioned ? is no promise of god necessary for such purposes as those ? how can any church in the world dispose of gods power without his will ? it may appoint significant and decent ceremonies , but it can never appropriate divine effects to them ; and to suppose any divine power in things which god never gave them , is in my opinion , superstition ; and to use them for such ends , is a superstitious use : st. cyril , whom he quotes , speaks of the consecration of the water of baptism , catech. . st. augustine only of a consecrated bread , which the catechumens had ( de peccat . merit . & remiss . l. . c. . ) but he attributes no divine effects to it . pope alexanders epistle is a notorious counterfeit . those passages of epiphanius , theodoret , and s. jerom , all speak of miraculous effects ; and those who had the power of miracles , might sometimes do them with an external sign , and sometimes without , as the apostles cured with anointing , and without : but this is no ground for consecrating oyl by the church , or holy water , for miraculous effects . if these effects which they attribute to holy water , be miraculous , then every priest must have not only a power of miracles himself , but of annexing it to the water he consecrates ; if they be super-natural but not miraculous , then holy water must be made a sacrament to produce these effects ex opere operato ; if neither one nor the other , i know not how to excuse the use of it from superstition . xxxiv . of breeding up people in ignorance . the misrepresenter charges them with this , on these acccounts . . by keeping their mysteries of iniquity from them . . by performing divine service in an unknown tongue . . by an implicite faith. to which the representer answers . . that they give encouragement to learning ; and he instances in their universities and conventual libraries ; but what is all this to the common people ? but their indices expurgatorii , and prohibiting books so severely , which are not for their turn , ( as we have lately seen in the new one of paris ) argues no great confidence of their cause , nor any hearty love to learning : and is it could be rooted out of the world , their church would fare the better in it ; bur if it cannot , they must have some to be able to deal with others in it . . as to the common people he saith , they have books enough to instruct them . is it so in spain or italy ? but where they live among hereticks , as we are called , the people must be a little better instructed to defend themselves , and to gain upon others . . if the people did know their church-offices and service , &c. they would not find such faults , since the learned approve them . let them then try the experiment , and put the bible and their church-offices every where into the vulgar tongues : but their severe prohibitions shew how much they are of another opinion : what made all that rage in france against voisins translation of the missal ? such proceedings of the assembly of the clergy against it ; such complaints both to the king and the pope against it , as tho all were lost , if that were suffered ? such an edict from the king , such a prohibition from the pope in such a tragical stile about it ? such a collection of authors to be printed on purpose against it ? do these things shew , even in a nation of so free a temper , in comparison , as the french , any mighty inclination towards the encouraging this knowledg in the people ? and since that , what stirs have there been about the mons testament ? what prohibitions by bishops ? what vehement opposition by others ? so that many volumes have already been written on the occasion of that translation . and yet our author would perswade us , that if we look abroad , we shall find wonderful care taken to keep the people from ignorance ; but we can d●scern much greater to keep them in it . xxxv . of the uncharitableness of the papists . the misrepresenter , ( as he is called ) charges this point home , because they deny salvation to those who believe all the articles of the christian faith in the apostles creed , and lead vertuous and good lives , if they be not of their communion . to this the representer answers in plain terms , that this is nothing but what they have learnt from the mouth of christ and his apostles . and to this end he musters up all their sayings against infidels , false apostles gnosticks , cerinthians , as tho they were point-blank levelled against all that live out of the communion of the church of rome . but this is no uncharitableness , but pure zeal , and the same the primitive church shewed against hereticks , such as marcion , basilides , and bardesanes , who were condemned in the first age for denying the resurrection of the dead , &c. what in the first age ! methinks the second had been early enough for them : but this is to let us see what learning there is among you . but do we deny the resurrection of the dead ? or hold any one of the heresies condemned by the primitive church ? what then is our fault , which can merit so severe a sentence ? we oppose the church : what church ? the primitive apostolical church ? the church in the time of the four general councils ? i do not think that will be said , but i am sure it can never be proved : what church then ? the present church ? is it then damnable to oppose the present church ? but i pray let us know what ye mean by it ; the universal body of christians in the world ? no , no , abundance of them are hereticks and schismaticks as well as we : i. e. all the christians in the eastern and southern parts , who are not in communion with the church of rome : so that two parts in three of christians , are sent to hell by this principle ; and yet it is no uncharitableness . but suppose the church of rome be the only true church , must men be damned presently for opposing its doctrines ? i pray think a little better on it , and you will change your minds . suppose a man do not submit to the guides of this church in a matter of doctrine declared by them ; must he be damned ? what if it be the deposing power ? yet his principle is , if a man do not hold the faith entire , he is gone . but popes and councils have declared this to be a point of faith : therefore if he doth not hold it , he must 〈◊〉 damned . there is no way of answering this , but he must abate the severity of his sentence against us . for upon the same reason he questions that , we may question many more . and all his arguments against us , will hold against himself ; for , saith he , he that disbelieves one article of catholick faith , does in a manner disbelieve all . let him therefore look to it , as well as we . but he endeavours to prove the roman catholick church to be the true church , by the ordinary notes and marks of the church . although he is far enough from doing it ; yet this will not do his business . for he must prove , that we are convinced that it is the true church ; and then indeed he may charge us with obstinate opposition , but not before . and it is a very strange thing to me , that when their divines say , that infidels shall not b● damned for their infidelity , where the gospel hath not been sufficiently proposed to them ; and no christian for not believing any article of faith till it be so proposed ; that we must be damned for not believing the articles of the roman faith , which never have been , and never can be sufficiently proposed to us . methinks such men should study a little better their own doctrine , about the sufficient proposal of matters of faith , before they pass such uncharitable and unlearned censures . xxxvi . of ceremonies and ordinances . his discourse on this head is against those who refuse to obey their superiours in things not expressed in scripture , which is no part of our controversy with them . but yet there are several things about their ceremonies we are not satisfied in : as . the mighty number of them ; which have so much mussled up the sacraments , that their true face cannot be discerned . . the efficacy attributed to them , without any promise from god ; whereas we own no more but decency and significancy . . the doctrine that goes along with them , not only of obedience , but of merit ; and some have asserted the opus operatum of ceremonies as well as sacraments , when the power of the keys goes along with them ; i. e. when there hath been some act of the church exercised about the matter of them ; as in the consecration of oyl , salt , bread , ashes , water , &c. xxxvii . of innovation in matters of faith. the substance of his discourse on this head may be reduced to these things . . that the church in every age hath power to declare what is necessary to be believed , with anathema to those who preach the contrary ; and so the council of trent , in declaring transubstantiation , purgatory , &c. to be necessary articles , did no more than the church had done before on like occasions . . that if the doctrines then defined had been innovations , they must have met with great opposition when they were introduced . . that those who charged those points to be innovations , might as well have laid the scandal on any other article of faith which they retained . these are things necessary to be examined , in order to the making good the charge of innovation in matters of faith , which we believe doth stand on very good grounds . . we are to consider , whether the council of trent had equal reason to define the necessity of these points , as the council of nice and constantinople had to determin the point of the trinity ; or those of ephesus and chalcedon , the truth of christ's incarnation . he doth not assert it to be in the churches power to make new articles of faith , as they do imply new doctrines revealed ; but he contends earnestly , that the church hath a power to declare the necessity of believing some points which were not so declared before . and if the necessity of believing doth depend upon the churches declaration , then he must assert , that it is in the churches power to make points necessary to be believed which were not so ; and consequently to make common opinions to become articles of faith. but i hope we may have leave to enquire in this case , since the church pretends to no new revelation of matters of doctrine , therefore it can declare no more than it receives , and no otherwise than it receives . and so nothing can be made necessary to salvation but what god himself hath made so by his revelation . so that they must go in their declaration either upon scripture , or universal tradition ; but if they define any doctrine to be necessary without these grounds , they exceed their commission , and there is no reason to submit to their decrees , or to believe their declarations . to make this more plain by a known instance : it is most certain that several popes and councils have declared the deposing doctrine , and yet our author saith , it is no article of faith with him . why not , since the popes and councils have as evidently delivered it , as the council of trent hath done purgatory , or transubstantiation ? but he may say , there is no anathema joined to it . suppose there be not ; but why may it not be , as well as in the other cases ? and if it were , i would know , whether in his conscience he would then believe it to be a necessary article of faith , though he believed that it wanted scripture and tradition ? if not , then he sees what this matter is brought to , viz. that altho the council of trent declare these new doctrines to be necessary to be believed ; yet if their declaration be not built no scripture and universal tradition , we are not bound to receive it . . as to the impossibility of innovations coming in without notorious opposition , i see no ground at all for it , where the alteration is not made at once , but proceeds gradually . he may as well prove it impossible for a man to fall into a dropsy or a hectick-fever , unless he can tell the punctual time when it began . and he may as well argue thus , such a man fell into a fever upon a great debauch , and the physicians were presently sent for to advise about him ; therefore the other man hath no chronical distemper , because he had no physicians when he was first sick ; as because councils were called against some heresies , and great opposition made to them , therefore where there is not the like , there can be no innovation . but i see no reason why we should decline giving an account , by what degrees , and steps , and upon what occasions , and with what opposition several of the doctrines defined at trent were brought in . for the matter is not so obscure as you would make it , as to most of the points in difference between us . but that is too large a task to be here undertaken . . there is no colour for calling in question the articles of faith received by us on the same grounds that we reject those defined by the council of trent ; for we have the universal consent of the christian world for the apostles creed ; and of the four general councils for the doctrines of the trinity and incarnation ; who never pretended to determin any point to be necessary which was not revealed in scripture ; whose sense was delivered down by the testimony of the christian church from the apostles times . but the council of trent proceeded by a very different rule ; for it first set up an unwritten word to be a rule of faith , as well as the written ; which although it were necessary in order to their decrees , was one of the greatest innovations in the world ; and the foundation of all the rest , as they were there established . an answer to the conclusion . having thus gone through the several heads , which our author complains have been so much misrepresented ; it is now fit to consider what he saith in his conclusion , which he makes to answer his introduction , by renewing therein his doleful complaints of their being misrepresented just as christ and his apostles , and the primitive christians were . i hope the former discourse hath shewed their doctrines and practices are not so very like those of christ and his apostles , and the primitive christians , that their cases should be made so parallel ; but as in his conclusion he hath summed up the substance of his representations , so i shall therein follow his method , only with this difference , that i shall in one column set down his own representations of popery , and in the other the reasons , in short , why we cannot embrace them . wherein popery consists as represented by this author . . in using all external acts of adoration before images , as kneeling , praying , lifting up the eyes , burning candles , incense , &c. not merely to worship the objects before them , but to worship the images themselves on the account of the objects represented by them ; or in his own words , because the honour that is exhibited to them , is referred to the prototypes which they represent . . in joining the saints in heaven together with christ in intercession for us , and making prayers on earth to them on that account . p. . . in allowing more supplications to be used to the blessed virgin , than to christ ; for he denies it to be an idle superstition , to repeat ten ave maria's for one pater noster . . in giving religious honour and respect to relicks . such as placing them upon altars , burning wax-candles before them , carrying them in processions , to be seen , touched , or humbly kissed by the people : which are the known and allowed practices in the church of rome . p. . . in adoring christ as present in the eucharist on the account of the substance of bread and wine being changed into that body of christ which suffered on the cross. p. . . in believing the substance of bread and wine by the words of consecration , to be changed into his own body and blood , the species only or accidents of bread and wine remaining as before . p. . . in making good works to be truly meritorious of eternal life . p. . . in making confession of our ●●s to a priest in order to absolu●on . p. . . in the use of indulgences for taking away the temporal punishments of sin , remaining due after the guilt is remitted . . in supposing that penitent sinners may in some measure satisfy by prayer , fasting , alms , &c. for the temporal pain , which by order of god's justice sometimes remains due , after the guilt and the eternal pain are remitted . p. . . in thinking the scripture not fit to be read generally by all , without licence , or in the vulgar tongues . p. . . in allowing the books of tobit , judith , ecclesiasticus , wisdom , maccabees , to be canonical . p. . . in preferring the vulgar latin edition of the bible before any other , and not allowing any translations into a mother tongue to be ordinarily read . p. , . . in believing that the scripture alone can be no rule of faith to any private or particular person . p. . . in relying upon the authority of the present church for the sense of scripture . p. . . in receiving and believing the churches traditions as the doctrine of christ and his apostles , and assenting to them with divine faith , just as he doth to the bible . p. , . . in believing that the present guides of the church being assembled in councils for preserving the unity of the church , have an infallible assistance in their decrees . p. . . in believing the pope to be the supreme head of the church under christ , being successour to s. peter to whom he committed the care of his flock . p. . . . in believing that communion in both kinds is an indifferent thing ; and was so held for the first four hundred years after christ ; and that the first precept for receiving under both kinds , was given to the faithful by pope leo i. and confirmed by pope gelasius . p. . . in believing that the doctrine of purgatory is founded on scripture , authority , and reason . p. , &c. . in believing that to the saying of prayers well and devoutly , it is not necessary to have attention on the words , or on the sense of prayers . p. . . in believing that none out of the communion of the church of rome can be saved ; and that it is no uncharitableness to think so . p. . . in believing that the church of rome , in all the new articles defined at trent , hath made no innovation in matters of faith. p. . our reasons against it in the several particulars . . thou shalt not make to thy self any graven image , or any likeness of any thing in heaven , or earth , &c. thou shalt not bow down to them , nor worship them . which being the plain , clear , and express words of the divine law , we dare not worship any images , or representations , lest we be found transgressors of this law. especially since god herein hath declared himself a jealous god ; and annexed so severe a sanction to it . and since he that made the law is only to interpret it , all the distinctions in the world can never satisfie a mans conscience , unless it appear that god himself did either make or approve them . and if god allow the worship of the thing represented by the representation , he would never have forbidden that worship absolutely , which is unlawful only in a certain respect . . we have an advocate with the father , jesus christ the righteous , john . . and but one mediator between god and men , the man christ jesus , tim. . . for christ is entred into heaven it self , now to appear in the presence of god for us , heb. . . and therefore we dare not make other intercessors in heaven besides him ; and the distance between heaven and us , breaks off all communication between the saints there , and us upon earth ; so that all addresses to them now for their prayers , are in a way very different from desiring others on earth to pray for us : and if such addresses are made in the solemn offices of divine worship , they join the creatures with the creator in the acts and signs of worship , which are due to god alone . . call upon me in the day of trouble , i will deliver thee , and thou shalt glorifie me , psal. . . when we pray to our father in heaven , as our saviour commanded us , we do but what both natural and christian religion require us to do : but when men pray to the blessed virgin for help and protection now , and at the hour of death , they attribute that to her , which belongs only to god , who is our helper and desender : and altho christ knew the dignity of his mother above all others , he never gives the least encouragement to make such addresses to her : and to suppose her to have a share now in the kingdom of christ in hea. ven , as a copartner with him , is to advance a creature to divine honour , and to overthrow the true ground of christs exaltation to his kingdom in heaven , which was , his suffering on the cross for us . . and no man knoweth of the sepulcher of moses unto this day , deut. . . why should god hide the body of moses from the people , if he allowed giving religious honour and respect to relicks ? why should hezekiah break in pieces the brazen serpent , because the children of israel did burn incense to it ? kings . . especially when it was a type or representation of christ himself , and god had wrought many miracles by it . . whom the heaven must receive until the times of the restitution of all things , acts . . and therefore in the eucharist we adore him , as sitting on the right hand of god ; but we dare not direct our adoration to the consecrated host , which we believe to be the substance of bread and wine , ( tho consecrated to a divine mystery ) , and therefore not a fit object for our adoration . . the bread which we break , is it not the communion of the body of christ , cor. . . this is spoken of the bread after consecration , and yet the apostle supposes it to be bread still , and the communion of his body is interpreted by the next words , for we being many , are one bread , and one body ; for we are all partakers of that one bread , v. . which is very different from the bread being changed into the very body of christ ; which is an opinion that hath no foundation in scripture , and is repugnant to the common principles of reason , which god hath given us , and exposes christian religion to the reproach and contempt of jews , turks , and infidels . . when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you , say , we are unprofitable servants , we have done that which was our duty to do , st. luk. . . and therefore in no sense can our best works be truly meritorious of eternal lise : which consisting in the enjoyment of god , it is impossible there should be any just proportion , or due commensuration between our best actions , and such a reward . . and the son said unto him , father i have sinned against heaven , and in thy sight , st. luke . . where confession to god is required because the offence is against him , but it is impossible for any man upon earth to forgive those whom god doth not forgive : and he alone can appoint the necessary conditions of pardon , among which true contrition and repentance is fully declared ; but confession to a priest , tho it may be useful for the ease of the penitent , is no where in scripture made necessary for the forgiveness of sin. . i said , i will consess my transgressions unto the lord ; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin , psal. . . if god doth fully forgive th● guilt of sin , there remains n● obligation to punishment ; fo● whereever that is , the guilt remains : it is true , god may no sometimes fully pardon ; but h● may reserve some temporal p● nishment here for his own ho●our , or the chastisement of penitent sinner ; but then wh● have any men to do , to prete● that they can take off what g● thinks fit to lay on ? can any ind●gences prevent pain or sickness sudden death ? but if indulgen● be understood only with respe● to canonical penances , they a● a most notorious and inexcu● ble corruption of the discipli● of the ancient church . . for if when we were enemies , we were reconciled to god by the death of his son ; much more , being reconciled , we shall be saved by his life , rom. . . and therefore no satisfaction to the justice of god is now required from us , for the expiation of any remainder of guilt . for if christ's satisfaction were in it self sufficient for a total remission , and was so accepted by god ; what account then remains for the sinner to discharge , if he perform the conditions on his part ? but we do not take away hereby the duties of mortification , prayer , fasting , and alms , &c. but there is a difference to be made between the acts of christian duties , and satisfaction to divine justice for the guilt of sin , either in whole or in part . and to think to joyn any satisfactions of ours , together with christs , is like joyning our hand with gods in creating or governing the world. . let the word of christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom ; teaching and admonishing one another , &c. coloss. . . how could that dwell richly in them , which was not to be communicated to them , but with great caution ? how could they teach and admonish one another in a language not understood by them ? the scriptures of the new testament were very early perverted ; and if this reason were sufficient to keep them out of the hands of the people , certainly they would never have been published for common use , but as prudently dispensed then , as some think it necessary they should be now . but we esteem it a part of our duty , not to think our selves wiser than christ or his apostles , nor to deprive them of that unvaluable treasure which our saviour hath left to their use . . all scripture is given by inspiration of god , tim. . . holy men of god spake as they were moved by the holy-ghost , pet. . . therefore , where there is no evidence of divine inspiration , those books cannot be made canonical . but the jewish church , to whom the oracles of god were committed , never deliver'd these books as any part of them , being written when inspiration was ceased among them . and it is impossible for any church in the world to make that to be divinely inspired , which was not so from the beginning . . but i say , have they not heard ? yes verily : their sound went into all the earth , and their words unto the ends of the world. rom. . . therefore the intention of god was , that the gospel should be understood by all mankind ; which it could never be , unless it were translated into their several languages . but still the difference is to be observed , between the originals and translations ; and no church can make a translation equal to the original . but among translations , those deserve the greatest esteem which are done with the greatest fidelity and exactness . on which account our last translation deserves a more particular regard by us ; as being far more useful to our people , than the vulgar latin , or any translation made only from it . . thy word is a lamp unto my feet , and a light unto my path , psalm . . which it could never be , unless it were sufficient for necessary direction in our way to heaven . but we suppose persons to make use of the best means for understanding it , and to be duely qualified for following its directions : without which , the best rule in the world can never attain its end. and if the scripture hath all the due properties of a rule of faith , it is unconceivable why it should be denied to be so ; unless men find they cannot justify their doctrines and practises by it , and therefore are forced to make tradition equal in authority with it . . wo unto you lawyers , for ye have taken away the key of knowledge ; ye entred not in your selves , and them that were entering in , ye hindred . s. luke . . from whence it follows , that the present guides of the church may be so far from giving the true sense of scripture , that they may be the chief means to hinder men from right understanding it . which argument is of greater force , because those who plead for the infallibility of the guides of the present church , do urge the promises made to the jewish church at that time ; as our author doth from those who sat in the chair of moses , and from caiaphas his prophesying . . we have also a more sure word of prophesie ; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed , pet. . . and yet here the apostle speaks of something delivered by the testimony of those who were with christ in the holy mount. from whence we infer , that it was not the design of christ to leave us to any vocal testimony , but to refer us to the written word , as the most certain foundation of faith. and it is not any persons assuming the title of the catholick church to themselves , can give them authority to impose any tradition● on the faith of christians ; or require them to be believed equally with the written , word . for before any traditions can be assented to with divine faith , the churches authority must be proved to be divine and infallible , either by a written or unwritten word ; but it can be done by neither , without overthrowing the necessity of such an infallibility in order to divine faith ; because the testimony on which the churches infallibility is proved , must be received only in a way of credibility . . also of your own selves shall men arise , speaking perverse things to draw away disciples after them , act. . . which being spoken of the guides of the christian church , without limitation of number , a possibility of error is implied in any assembly of them ; unless there were some other promises which did assure us , that in all great assemblies the spirit of god shall always go with the casting voice , or the greater number . . and he gave some apostles , and some prophets , and some evangelists , and some pastors and teachers — for the edisying of the body of christ — till we all come in the unity of the faith , &c. ephes. . , , . now here being an account given of the officers christ appointed in his church , in order to the unity and edification of it , it had been unfaithfulness in the apostle to have left out the head of it , in case christ had appointed any . because this were of more consequence than all the rest ; being declared necessary to salvation to be in subjection to him . but neither this apostle , nor s. peter himself , give the least intimation of it . which it is impossible to conceive should have been left out in the apostolical writings upon so many occasions of mentioning it , if ever christ had instituted a headship in the church , and given it to s. peter and his successors in the see of rome . . for as often as ye eat this bread , and drink this cup , ye do shew the lord's death till he come , cor. . . the apostle speaking to all communicants , plainly shews , that the institution of christ was , that all should partake of both kinds , and so to continue to do as long as this sacrament was to shew forth the death of christ , viz. till his second coming . and there is no colour for asserting the christian church ever looked on observing christs institution in this matter as an indifferent thing ; no not for a thousand years after christ. altho the practise and the obligation are two things , yet when the practise was so agreeable to the institution , and continued so long in the church ; it is hardly possible for us to prove the sense of the obligation , by a better way , than by the continuance of the practise . and if some traditions must be thought binding , and far from being indifferent , which want all that evidence which this practise carries along with it , how unreasonable is it in this case to allow the practise , and to deny the obligation ? . and whom he justified , them he also glorified , rom. . . but whom god justifies , they have the remission of their sins as to eternal punishment . and if those who are thus justified , must be glorified , what place is there for purgatory ? for there is not the least intimation of any other state of punishment that any who are justified must pass through before they are admitted to glory . we grant they may , notwithstanding , pass through many intermediate trials in this world ; but we say , where there is justification , there is no condemnation ; but where any part of guilt remains unremitted , there is a condemnation remaining so far as the punishment extends . and so this distinction as to eternal and temporal pains , as it is made the foundation of purgatory , is wholly groundless ; and therefore the doctrine built upon it can have no foundation in scripture or reason . . i will pray with the spirit , and i will pray with the understanding also , cor. . . what need this praying with the understanding , if there were no necessity of attending to the sense of prayers ? for then praying with the spirit were all that was required : for that supposes an attention of the mind upon god. and i can hardly believe any man that thinks with understanding , can justify praying without it : especially when there are exhortations and invitations to the people to joyn in those prayers , as it is plain there are in the roman offices . . then peter opened his mouth , and said , of a truth i perceive that god is no respecter of persons ; but in every nation , he that feareth god , and worketh righteousness , is accepted with him , acts . , . whereby we perceive , that god doth not limit the possibility of salvation under the gospel to communion with the see of rome ; for if s. peter may be believed , the capacity of salvation depends upon mens fearing god and working righteousness and it is horrible uncharritablebleness to exclude those from a possibility of salvation , whom god doth not exclude from it . . that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered to the saints , jude v. . therefore all necessary doctrines of faith were at first delivered ; and whatever articles cannot be proved to have been delivered by the apostles , can never be made necessary to be believed in order to salvation . vvhich overthrows the additional creed of pius iv. after the council of trent ; and puts them upon the necessity of proving the universal tradition of those doctrines from the apostostolical times : and when they do that , we may think better of them than at present we do ; for as yet we can see neither scripture , nor reason , nor antiquity for them . thus i have represented that kind of popery which our author , ( who complains so much of misrepresenting ) allows ; and i have in short , set down how little ground we have to be fond of it ; nay , to speak more plainly , it is that we can never yield to , without betraying the truth , renouncing our senses and reason , wounding our consciences , dishonouring god and his holy word and sacraments , perverting the doctrine of the gospel as to christs satisfaction , intercession and remission of sins ; depriving the people of the means of salvation which god himself hath appointed , and the primitive church observed , and damning those for whom christ died . we do now in the sincerity of our hearts , appeal to god and the world , that we have no design to misrepresent them , or to make their doctrines and practises appear worse than they are : but take them with all the advantages even this author hath set them out with , we dare appeal to the judgments and consciences of any impartial men , whether ( the scripture being allowed on both sides ) our doctrines be not far more agreeable thereto than the new articles of trent , which are the very life and soul of popery ? whother our worship of god be not more suitable to the divine nature and perfections , and the manifestations of his will , than the worship of images , and invocation of fellow-creatures ? whether the plain doctrine of the necessity of repentance and sincere obedience to the commands of christ , do not tend more to promote holiness in the vvorld , than the sacrament of penance , as it is delivered and allowed to be practised in the church of rome , i. e. with the easiness and efficacy of absolution , and getting off the remainders by indulgences , satisfactions of others , and prayers for the dead ? vvhether it be not more according to the institution of christ to have the communion in both kinds , and to have prayers and the scriptures in a language which the people understand ? and lastly , whether there be not more of christian charity in believing and hoping the best of those vast bodies of christians , who live out of the communion of the church of rome , in the eastern , southern , western , and northern parts , than to pronounce them all uncapable of salvation on that account ? and therefore out of regard to god and the holy religion of our blessed saviour ; out of regard to the salvation of our own and others souls , we cannot but very much prefer the communion of our own church , before that of the church of rome . but before i conclude all , i must take some notice of his anathema's : and here i am as much unsatisfied , as in any other part of his book , and that for these reasons , . because he hath no manner of authority to make them , suppose they were meant never so sincerely : and if we should ever object them to any others of that church , they would presently say , what had he to do to make anathema's ? it belongs only to the church and the general councils to pronounce anethema's , and not to any private person whatsoever . so that if he would have published anathema's with authority , he ought to have printed those of the council of trent ; viz. such as these , cursed is he that doth not allow the worship of images . cursed is he that saith saints are not to be invocated . cursed is he that dotb not believe transubstantiation , purgatory , &c. . because he leaves out an anathema in a very material point , viz. as to the deposing doctrine . we do freely , and from our hearts anathematize all such doctrines as tend to dissolve the bonds of allegiance to our soveraign , on any pretence whatsoever . why was this past over by him , without any kind of anathema ? since he seems to approve the oxford censures , p. . why did he not here show his zeal against all such dangerous doctrines ? if the deposing doctrine be falsly charged upon their church , let us but once see it anathematized by publick authority of their church , and we have done : but in stead thereof , we find in a book very lately published with great approbations , by a present professor at lovain fr. d' enghien , all the censures on the other side censured and despised , and the holding the negative as to the deposing doctrine , is declared by him to be heresie , or next to heresie : the censure of the sorbon against sanctarellus . he saith , was only done by a faction ; and that of sixty eight doctors there were but eighteen present ; and the late censure of the sorbon , he saith , was condemned by the inquisition at toledo , jan. . . as erroneous and schismatical ; and so by the clergy of hungary , oct. . . vve do not question but there are divines that oppose it ; but we fear there are too many who do not ; and we find they boast of their own numbers , and despise the rest as an inconsiderable party : this we do not misrepresent them in , for their most approved books do shew it . however , we do not question , but there are several worthy and loyal gentlemen of that religion , of different principles and practises : and it is pity such be not distinguished from those who will not renounce a doctrine so dangerous in the consequences of it . . because the anathema's he hath set down , are not penned so plainly and clearly , as to give any real satisfaction ; but with so much art and sophistry , as if they were intended to beguile weak and unwary readers , who see not into the depth of these things , and therefore may think he hath done great matters in his anathema's , when if they be strictly examined , they come to little or nothing ; as . cursed is he that commits idolatry . an unwary reader would think herein he disowned all that he accuses of idolatry ; but he doth not curse any thing as idolatry , but what himself thinks to be so . so again , cursed is he ( not that gives divine worship to images , but ) that prays to images , or relicks as gods , or worships them for gods. so that if he doth not take the images themselves for gods , he is safe enough from his own anathema . . cursed is every goddess worshipper , i. e. that believes the blessed virgin not to be a creature . and so they escape all the force of this anathema . cursed is he that honours her , or puts his trust in her more than in god. so that if they honour her and trust in her but just as much as in god , they are safe enough ; or that believes her to be above her son : but no anathema to such as suppose her to be equal to him . . cursed is he that believes the saints in heaven to be his redeemer , that prays to them as such . vvhat if men pray to them as their spiritual guardians and protectors ? is not this giving gods honour to them ? doth this deserve no anathema ? . cursed is he that worships any breaden god , or makes god of the empty elements of bread and wine : viz. that supposes them to be nothing but bread and wine , and yet supposes them to be gods too . doth not this look like nonsense : and yet i am afraid our author would think it a severe anathema in this matter , to say , cursed is he who believes nonsense and contradictions . it will be needless to set down more , since i have endeavoured by clear stating the several controversies to prevent the readers being ●mposed upon by deceitful anathema's . and yet after all he saith , 〈◊〉 cursed are we , if in answering and saying amen to any of these c●rses , we use any equivocations or mental reservation , or do not assent to them in the common and obvions use of the words . but there may be no equivocation in the very vvords , and yet there may be a great one in the intention and design of them : there may be none in saying amen to the curses so worded ; but if he would have prevented all susp●cion of equivocation , he ought to have put it thus , cursed are we if we have not fairly and ingenuously expressed the whole meaning of our church as to the points condemned in these anathema's ; or if we have by them designed to deceive the people : and ●●e● i doubt he would not so readily have said amen . the contents . an answer to his introduction . page . . of praying to images . p. . . of worshiping saints . p. . . of addressing more supplications to the virgin mary than to christ. p. . . of paying divine worship to relicks . p. . . of adoration of the host. p. . . of transubstantiation . p. . . of merits and good works . p. . . of confession . p. . . of indulgencies . p. . . of satisfaction . p. . . of reading the holy scriptures . p. . . of apocryphal books p. . . of the vulgar edition of the bible . p. . . of the scripture as a rule of faith. p. . . of the interpretation of scripture . p. . . of tradition . p. . . of councils . p. . . of infallibility in the church . p. . . of the pope . p. . . of dispensations . p. . . of the deposing power . p. . . of communion in one kind . p. . . of the mass. p. . . of purgatory . p. . . of praying in an unknown tongue . p. . . of the second commandment . p. . of mental reservations . p. . . of a deathbed repentance . p. . . of fasting . p. . . of schisms and divisions in the church . p. . . of friers and nuns . p. . . of wicked principles and practises . p. . . of miracles . p. . . of holy water . p. . . of breeding up people in ignorance . p. . . of the uncharitableness of the papists . p. . . of ceremonies and o●dinances . p. . . of innovations in matters of faith. p. . an answer to his conclusion . p. . finis . the errata . page . margin , for conformat , read confirm . p. . l. . for dodrine , r. doctrine . p. . margin , for lapidiana , r. lapidicina . p , . l. . after publis●●d insert in l. . after piece insert of . p. . l. . blot out ? or. p. . l. . for vigdantius , r. vigilantius . p. . l. . after cannot , blot out say . p. . l. . for solemn , r. solitary . p. . margin , for sues , r. surs. ib. for philean , r. philerene . p. . l. . for claevasus , r. clavasius . p. . l. . for doctrine , r. doctors . p. . margin , for d' erast , r. d' eng●ien . p. . 〈◊〉 . for ecclesiastical , r. e●charistical . p. . l. . before whether , insert ( . ) p. . 〈◊〉 ● . for i● . r. are . l. . blot out as well . p. . l. . and l. . for de r. be . advertisement . a discourse against transubstantiation , printed for w. rogers . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e bulla pli ti super conf●rm ●ra● concil . tridentini . notes for div a -e thevenot voyage des indes . p. . bernier memoirs . tom. . p. . pag. . suarez in . part . qu. . disp. . sect. . do . principaliter . & sect. . bellarmin . de imag. l. . c. . concil . triden● . sess. . moyens surs & honestes pour la conversion de tous les heretiques . to. . p. . catechis . rom. part. . c. . s. . notes for div a -e sect. . pag. . wicel . in elencho abusuum . vives in aug. de civit. dti , l. . c. . entritiens de p●ilalethe & philerene . part . p. , , . catech. rom. part . c. . n. , . catech. rom. part . c. . n. , . cum praesint nobis sancti & rer●m nostrarum curam gerant . bellarm. de sanct. beatit . l. . c. . §. deinde . non solum ab angells sed etiam ● spiritibus beatorum hominum regi & gubernarl fideles ●iventes . id. ib. c. . §. nos autem . john . , , , , . heb. . . & . , . jo. . . tim. . . notes for div a -e s. bonavent . opust . tom. . ad sin . s. bernardin . sen. apud bernardin . à bustis marial . part. . serm. . balinghem . parnass . m●●i●● p. . mendoza . virid . sacr. l. . probl. , & . salazar pro immac . concept . c. . hier. peres de nueros lapidi●●na sacra tr. . sect. . n. . pag. . viridar . sacr. l. . probl. . n. . la veritable devotion envers la s. vierge etable & defendu par le pere crasset à paris a. d. . monita salutaria b. v. mariae ad cultores suos indiscretos §. . n. . §. . contemplations of the life and glory of holy mary , the mother of jesus , a. d. . pag. . pag. . billarmin . de cultu . sanct. l. . c. . inis . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . alanus de rupe de usu psalt●●ii , l. . c. . notes for div a -e de imag. sanct. l. . c. . cassand . consult . art. . tract . special . . controv. . rabat . joy de jasenists , a. d. . notes for div a -e pallavicin . hist. concil . trident. l. . c. . rossens . c. oecu . lamp . l. . c. . coster . euchi●id . c. . n. . catherin . in cajet . p. , &c. ed. paris , i●g●●● . . p. , , , . vasq. in part. disc. . q. art. . c. . cajetan . in part. q. . art. , , . s. luk. . . s. joh. . , . bellarm. de incarn . l. . c. . p●●av . de incarnatione , p. . c. . §. . notes for div a -e pag. . concil . trident. sess. . can. . meritum est actio libera cui merces debetur ex justitiâ . coster . enchirid. de merit is bo● . oper. c. . in quantum homo propriâ voluntate facit id quod debet , meretur apud deum , alioquin reddere debitum non esset mer●torum . aquin. , . qu. , artic . . resp . ad . meritum se habět ad praemium sicut pretium ad illud quod emitur . altisiodor . l. . tr . . absoluta aequalitas inter mercedem & meritum ponitur per modum justitiae commutativae . bell. justif. l. . ● . . tim. . . notes for div a -e s●ss . . can. . s●ss . . c. . lomb. l. . dist. . grat. de poenit. dist. . c. . quidam . greg. de valentiâ de necessit . confess . c. . maldonat . oper. to. . de poenit. c. , & . john . . s. mat. . . mark . . jansen . concord evang. c. cajetan . in loc . ed. paris , . catharin . in cajeta● . l. . p. . vasquez in part. th. tom. . qu. . art. . dub. . nam . . greg. de valent . in thom. tom. . disp. . qu. . punct . . p . bonavent . in l. . sent. dist. . part . . godign . de rebus abassin . l. . c. . itinerarium ori●ntale . l. . c. . galan . concil . eccles. armenae to. . p. . historie critique de la creance & de coutums des nations du levant . ch . . p. . ch. . p. . resp. . jer m. patriarch . ad theolog. wirte●tberg . p. . arcud . de concord . ecclesiae occident . & orient . in sacram . l. . c. . goar in eucholog . p. . notes for div a -e pag. , . tractat. tractatuum . to : . part. . f. . espencae . in ep. ad tit. c. . degress . . bullar . cherubin . in to. . p. . prorsus mandamus angelis paradisi , quantum animam illius à purgatorio penitus absolutam in paradisi gloriam introducant . bulla clem. . ultrajecti a. d. . gobel . person . cosmodr . aet . . c. . p. . bellar. to. . p. . to. . p. . greg. de valent . de indulg . c. . bell. de indulg . l. . c. . c. . notes for div a -e catech. roman . part. . c. . n. , . catech. rom. de paenit . sacr. n. . notes for div a -e pag. . p. . quod quidem inviolate servandum est . clem. viii . ad reg. . indicis roman . notes for div a -e p. . concil trident . sess. . . apr. de canon script . bp. cosins scholastical history of the canon of scripture . greg. nazianzen . in carmin , . vol. p. . orat. de mac. cab . vol. . p. . ambros de jacob & vi●ae erat l. . c. , , . cocci . thes. catho . l. . act . scholastical history , n. . euseb. l. . c. . orig. pref . in psal. athan. in synopsi . hilar. pref . in psal. st. cyril . catech . . epiph. haer . . . basil. philocal . c. . amphil. epist. canon . ad seleuc. chrys. hom . . in gen. scholastical history . n. . p. . p. . cathar . adv. cajet . p , . ed. paris . notes for div a -e p. , . in hac vulgata editione visa sunt nonnulla mutanda , quae consulto mutata non sunt . clem. viii . in bullâ . luc. brugens . in variis lect. nat. alexand : dissert . de vulg . vers . quaest. . p . notes for div a -e p. . notes for div a -e p. . p. . controv. . qu. . art . . notes for div a -e p. , . thes. . . p. . p. . notes for div a -e p. . p. . notes for div a -e p. . p. . p. . p. . chron. . . p. . chrysost. in matt. hom. . hieron . in loc . caten . gr. in loc . hilaer . canon . . theophilact . in loc . matt. . notes for div a -e cerem . sect. . c. . p. . p. . matt. . . chrysost. hom . . in pentec . tom. . ed savil. p . ambros de incarnat . dom. sacramento c. . aug. de verbis dom. ad evang. secund . matth. serm. . tract . in joh. . basil. seleuc. orat. . ad fin . hilar. de trinit . l. . greg. nyssen de advent . domini cap. ult . theodoret epist. . . matt. . . orig. comment . in matt. gr. lat. p. . cyprian . de unit. ecclesiae . hilar. de trinit . . . hier. c. jovin . l. . c. . in matt. . aug. in joh. tr. . . in epist. joh. to. . moyens su●● & honestes , &c. p. , &c. entretiens de philaleth . in phile● p. . joh. launoi . epist. part . . reim . formentino , & part. . ep. . p. , &c. p. . notes for div a -e p. . de concess . praebend . è proposuit . abb. c. proposuit de conc. praebend . c. . q. . c. auctoritate sum. angelic . v. dispensatio . jacobat . de conciliis l. . p. . almain . de potest . ecclesiae c. . catharin . c. cajetan . . p. . sanchez . de matrim l. . disp. . n. . sayr . clavis reg. l. . c. . suarez . de vot . l. . c. . n. . , , . p. . notes for div a -e p. . p. . p. . p. , . discussio decreti magni concil . lateran . p. . p. , &c. discuss . discuss . part . sect. . p. . philip. a ss . trinir . itiner . orient . l. c. . clem. galau . concil . eccl. arm. qu. . ss . ● . p. . jesuits loyalty , first treatise , p. , &c a professor of lovain , now living , hath undertaken to see● , that the number is far greater of those who assert this doctrine , than of those who deny it . auctoritas sedis . p. , . apostolicae vindicata adversus natal . alexand. per francisc. d. erast. colon. a. d. . notes for div a -e s. john . . tract . . in epist. s. joh. cotovic . itiner . hierosolymit . l. . c. . histoir . critique , p. . p. . notes for div a -e sess. . cap. ● . can . , , , &c. p. . eucharistical notes for div a -e p. . leo allat . de purgat . p. . levit. . . bellar. de purgat . l. . c. . p. . can. l. . c. . ad . aug. c●nt d . epist. gaudent l. . c. . de purgat . l. . c. . natal . alex. sec. . diss. . p. . bell. de an. christi l. . c. . p. . s. th. part . . q. . art . in cor . v. marsil . column . hydragiolog . sect. . c. . n. . sect. . c. . n. . . c. . n. . bell. de cultu . sanct. l. . c. . sect. secundo . de purgatorio l. . c. . ss . haec sunt . notes for div a -e p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . notes for div a -e p. . p. . notes for div a -e p. . apud g. ab●bot de mendacio , &c. in praef. p. , &c. notes for div a -e p. , . notes for div a -e p. . p. . reginald . praxis l. . c. . n. . less . de justit . l. . c. . dub. . n. . instruct. sacerd . l. . c. . n. . p. zacch . qu. medico . legales l. . tit . . qu. . p. , , . pasqual . decis . . n. . dian. sam. v. jejun . n. . zach. pasqualigi . praxis jejunii eccles decis . . n. . dec. . . , . decis . . n. . decis . . n. , . less . ubi supr . n. . tolet. ubi sup . regin ubi sup . n. . notes for div a -e p. . notes for div a -e p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . notes for div a -e p. . moyens surs & honestes , &c. to. . p. . notes for div a -e p. . hydragiolog . sect. . c. . . p. . valles . sacr. philosoph . c. . p. . de cultu sanct. l. . c. . notes for div a -e p. . p. . collectio authorum vulg. versionis damnantium jussu ac mandato cleri gallicani edita . lutet . paris . . notes for div a -e p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . notes for div a -e p. , p. , &c. p. . p. . sess. quarta . notes for div a -e p. . p. . auctoritas sed●s apostolicae in reges . p. , . ad . p. . sermons preached on several occasions to which a discourse is annexed concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ : wherein crellius his answer to grotius is considered / by edward stillingfleet ... sermons. selections stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) sermons preached on several occasions to which a discourse is annexed concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ : wherein crellius his answer to grotius is considered / by edward stillingfleet ... sermons. selections stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], , [ ], - p. printed by robert white for henry mortlock ..., london : . marginal notes. special t.p. on p. 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sermons preached on several occasions . to which a discourse is annexed concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ . wherein crellius his answer to grotius is considered . by edward stillingfleet d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london , printed by robert white , for henry mortlock , at the sign of the phoenix in s t. paul's church-yard , and at the white hart in westminster hall. . the contents . part i. six sermons upon amos iv. xi . i have overthrown some of you , as god overthrew sodom and gomorrah , and ye were as a firebrand pluckt out of the burning : yet have ye not returned unto me , saith the lord. pag. prov . xiv . ix . fools make a mock at sin. pag. luke vii . xxxv . but wisdom is justified of all her children . pag. romans i. xvi . for i am not ashamed of the gospel of christ ; for it is the power of god unto salvation to every one that believes , to the jew first , and also to the greek . pag. hebrews ii. iii. how shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation ? pag. hebrews xii . iii. for , consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself , lest ye be weary , and faint in your minds . pag. jude v. ii. and perished in the gainsaying of corah . pag. matthew xxi . xliii . therefore say i unto you , the kingdom of god shall be taken from you , and given to a nation bringing forth the fruit ; thereof . pag. john vii . xx xix . but this spake he of the spirit which they that believe on him should receive . for the holy ghost was not yet given , because that iesus was not yet glorified . pag. isaiah lvii . xxi . there is no peace , saith my god to the wicked . pag. ii corinth . v. ii. knowing therefore the terrour of the lord , we perswade men . pag. matthew xvi . xxvi . for what is a man profited , if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul ? or what shall he give in exchange for his soul ? pag. part ii. a discourse concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ . chap. i. of the socinian way of interpreting scripture . of the uncertainty it leaves us in as to the main articles of faith , manifested by an exposition of gen. . suitable to that way . the state of the controversie in general concerning the sufferings of christ for us . he did not suffer the same we should have done . the grand mistake in making punishments of the nature of debts ; the difference between them at large discovered , from the different reason and ends of them . the right of punishments in god , proved against crellius , not to arise from meer dominion . the end of punishment not bare compensation , as it is in debts ; what punishment due to an injured person by the right of nature ; proper punishment a result of laws . crellius his great mistake about the end of punishments . not designed for satisfaction of anger as it is a desire of revenge . seneca and lactantius vindicated against crellius . the magistrates interest in punishment distinct from that of private persons . of the nature of anger in god , and the satisfaction to be made to it . crellius his great arguments against satisfaction depend on a false notion of gods anger . of the ends of divine punishments , and the different nature of them in this and and the future state . pag. chap. ii. the particular state of the controversie , concerning the sufferings of christ. the concessions of our adversaries . the debate reduced to two heads : the first concerning christs sufferings , being a punishment for sin , entred upon . in what sense crellius acknowledgeth the sins of men , to have been the impulsive cause of the death of christ. the sufferings of christ proved to be a punishment , from scripture . the importance of the phrase of bearing sins . of the scape-goats bearing the sins of the people into the wilderness . grotius his sense of pet. . . vindicated against crellius and himself . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 never used for the taking away a thing by the destruction of it . crellius his sense examined . isa. . . vindicated . the argument from matth. . . answered . grotius constant to himself in his notes on that place . isa. . , , . cleared . whether christs death be a proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and whether that doth imply , that it was a punishment of sin ? how far the punishment of children for their fathers faults , are exemplary among men . the distinction of calamities and punishments , holds not here . that gods hatred of sin could not be seen in the sufferings of christ , unless they were a punishment of sin , proved against crellius . grotius his arguments from christ being made sin and a curse for us , defended . the liberty our adversaries take in changing the sense of words . the particles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being joyned to sins and relating to sufferings do imply those sufferings to be a punishment for sin . according to their way of interpreting scripture , it had been impossible for our doctrine to be clearly expressed therein . pag. chap. iii. the words of scripture being at last acknowledged by our adversaries to make for us , the only pretence remaining is that our doctrine is repugnant to reason . the debate managed upon point of reason : the grand difficulty enquired into , and manifested by our adversaries concessions , not to lye in the greatness of christs sufferings , or that our sins were the impulsive cause of them , or that it is impossible that one should be punished for anothers faults : or in all cases unjust : the cases wherein crellius allows it , instanced . from whence it is proved that he yields the main cause . the arguments propounded whereby he attempts to prove it unjust for christ to be punished for our sins . crellius his principles of the justice of punishments examined . of the relation between desert and punishment . that a person by his own consent may be punished beyond the desert of his own actions . an answer to crellius his objections . what it is to suffer undeservedly , crellius his mistake in the state of the question . the instances of scripture considered . in what sense children are punished for their parents sins . ezec. . . explained at large . whether the guilty being freed from the sufferings of an innocent person makes that punishment unjust or no ? crellius his shifts and evasions in this matter discovered . why among men the offenders are not freed in criminal matters though the sureties be punished . the release of the party depends on the terms of the sureties suffering , therefore deliverance not ipso facto . no necessity of such a translation in criminal , as is in pecuniary matters . pag. chap. iv. the death of christ considered as an expiatory sacrifice for sin . what the expiation of sin was by the sacrifices under the law ; twofold , civil and ritual . the promises made to the iews under the law of moses , respected them as a people , and therefore must be temporal . the typical nature of sacrifices asserted . a substitution in the expiatory sacrifices under the law , proved from lev. . . and the concession of crellius about the signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 joyned with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . lev. . . explained . the expiation of uncertain murther proves a substitution . a substitution of christ in our room proved from christ being said to dye for us ; the importance of that phrase considered . in what sense a surrogation of christ in our room is asserted by us . our redemption by christ proves a substitution . of the true notion of redemption : that explained , and proved against socinus and crellius . no necessity of paying the price to him that detains captive , where the captivity is not by force , but by sentence of law. christs death a proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : and therefore the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 attributed to it , cannot be taken for meer deliverance . pag. chap. v. the notion of a sacrifice belongs to the death of christ , because of the oblation made therein to god. crellius his sense of christs oblation proposed . against him it is proved , that the priestly office of christ had a primary respect to god , and not to us . expiatory sacrifices did divert the wrath of god. christ not a bare metaphorical high-priest . crellius destroys the priesthood of christ by confounding it with the exercise of his regal power . no proper expiation of sin belongs to christ in heaven , if crellius his doctrine be true , ephes. . . proves the death of christ an expiatory sacrifice , and an oblation to god. the phrase of a sweet-smelling savour , belongs to expiatory sacrifices ; crellius his gross notion of it . his mistakes about the kinds of sacrifices . burnt-offerings were expiatory sacrifices both before and under the law. a new distribution of sacrifices proposed . what influence the mactation of the sacrifice had on expiation . the high-priest only to slay the sin-offering on the day of atonement ; from whence it is proved , that christs priesthood did not begin from his entrance into heaven . the mactation in expiatory sacrifices no bare preparation to a sacrifice , proved by the iewish laws , and the customs of other nations . whether christs oblation of himself once to god , were in heaven , or on earth ? of the proper notion of oblations under the levitical law. several things observed from thence to our purpose . all things necessary to a legal oblation , concur in the death of christ : his entrance into heaven hath no correspondency with it ; if the blood of christ were no sacrifice for sin . in sin-offerings for the people , the whole was consumed ; no eating of the sacrifices allowed the priests , but in those for private persons . christs exercise of power in heaven , in no sense an oblation to god. crellius , his sense repugnant to the circumstances of the places in dispute . objections answered . pag. chap. vi. that the effects of proper expiatory sacrifices belong to the death of christ , which either respect the sin or the person . of the true notion of expiation of sin , as attributed to sacrifices . of the importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as applied to them . socinus his proper sense of it examined . crellius his objections answered . the iews notion of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the sacrifices not bare conditions of pardon , nor expiated meerly as a slight part of obedience . gods expiating sin , destroys not expiation by sacrifice . the importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , relating to sacrifices . expiation attributed to the sacrifice of christ , in the same sense that it was to other sacrifices : and from thence , and the places of scripture which mention it , proved not to be meerly declarative . if it had been so , it had more properly belonged to his resurrection than his death . the death of christ not taken metonymically for all the consequents of it ; because of the peculiar effects of the death of christ in scripture , and because expiation is attributed to him antecedently to his entrance into heaven . no distinction in scripture of the effects of christs entrance into heaven from his sitting at the right hand of god. the effects of an expiatory sacrifice , respecting the person , belong to the death of christ , which are atonement and reconciliation . of the signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the reconciliation by christs death , doth not meerly respect us , but god ; why the latter less used in the new testament . a twofold reconciliation with god mentioned in scripture . crellius his evasion answered . the objections from gods being reconciled in the sending his son , and the inconsistency of the freeness of grace with the doctrine of satisfaction answered , and the whole concluded . pag. to the right honourable elizabeth countesse dowager of jocelin late earle of northumberland . madam , among the number of those who congratulate your safe return into your own countrey , wherein your ladiship is so justly beloved and esteemed by all that honour vertue and goodness , give me leave to express my duty in an address more agreeable to my own profession , than some perhaps will think it is to your quality and condition . those i mean who measure their greatness by their contempt of religion , and all that belong to it : who know nothing of wit or vertue beyond the stage , or think the leviathan contains in it the whole duty of man. the utmost these persons will allow us whose honour and imployment lyes in asserting the truth of religion , and perswading to the practice of it , is , that we are men of a profession , and speak for the things we are to live by . as though reason and religion were such contemptible wares , as scarce any would enquire after , if it were not some mens trade to put them off : and were of less force in themselves , because it is our duty and interest to maintain them . is it any disparagement to a prince to have subjects obliged to defend his honour , and servants to attend his person ? and must not what they say or do be at all minded , because their own interest is joyned with his ? why then should religion suffer in the esteem of any , because she hath servants of her own to defend her cause ? as if it had alwayes been a received principle with mankind , that no man is to be trusted in his own profession . according to this the lawyers ought to preach , and the divines plead causes ; because the one gets nothing by divinity , nor the other by law ; the merchant should visit patients , and the physicians attend the committees of trade ; because it is dangerous trusting men in what they are most concerned to understand . when once i see these persons for bear to consult the lawyers about setling their estates , and physicians for their health , meerly because they get by their professions , i shall then think it is something else besides a pique at religion , which makes them so ready to contemn whatever is said by us in behalf of it , because , forsooth , it is our trade to defend it . i wish it were theirs as much to practise it ; and then we should not be troubled with removing these and such like prejudices against all the discourses of religion , which are spoken and published by us . but in these matters which we conceive to be of so high concernment to mankind , we desire nothing may be considered besides the force of reason , and weight of argument ; and surely none that own themselves to be men , will despise that , by whomsoever it is brought . it is not every ridiculous story , or vulgar prejudice , or common infirmities , or different opinions in smaller things , which ought to render religion ridiculous , or make the practice of it be thought mean and contemptible . but however they are resolved to think of us , let not religion suffer for our sakes . indeed if they did as truly love religion as they despise us , we might then have reason to suspect our selves ; but when we suffer meerly upon her account , we have cause to rejoyce in our dishonour ; and ought to suspect our selves if such persons did speak well of us. madam , the main design of these following discourses is to recommend the great matters of religion , from their truth and certainty , their power and efficacy , the benefit and advantage , which comes by them : and to disswade from the practice of sin , from the folly and reproach , the present dissatisfaction and suture punishment which attends it . if they may be of use to the world , and any wayes serviceable to your ladiship in your retirements , i have the end i aimed at . and i have therefore presumed to dedicate them to your ladiship , not only because of the great obligations which i have to your self and family , which were first laid upon me , by that excellent person , the late lord treasurer , your father ; but likewise because you have so well followed so worthy an example in joyning greatness and goodness together . were it my design to publish your just and due character , i should not need to find fault with the age to give the greater advantage to your vertue : all the harm i wish the age , is , that there were many more persons of your condition , that did as little need , and as much despise the meanness of flattery . i am madam , your ladiships most obliged and humble servant , ed. stillingfleet . sermon i. at s t. margarets westminster before the honourable house of commons . octo. . . amos iv. xi . i have overthrown some of you , as god overthrew sodom and gomorrah , and ye were as a firebrand pluckt out of the burning : yet have ye not returned unto me , saith the lord. it is but a very little time since you met together in this place to lament the remainders of a raging pestilence , which the last year destroyed so many thousand inhabitants of the late great and famous city : and now god hath given us another sad occasion for our fa●●●ng and humiliation , by suffering a devouring fire to break forth and consume so many of her habitations . as though the infected air had been too kind and partial , and like saul to the amalekites , had only destroyed the vile and refuse , and spared the greatest of the people ; as though the grave had surfeited with the bodies of the dead , and were loth to go on in the execution of gods displeasure ; he hath imployed a more furious element , which by its merciless and devouring flames might in a more lively manner represent unto us the kindling of his wrath against us . and that by a fire , which began with that violence , and spread with that horror , and raged with that sury , and continued for so long a time with that irresistible force ; that it might justly fill the beholders with confusion , the hearers of it with amasement , and all of us with a deep and humble sense of those sins which have brought down the judgements of god in so severe a manner in the midst of us . for whatever arguments or reasons we can imagine that should compose the minds of men to a sense of their own or others calamities , or excite them to an apprehension of the wrath of god as the cause of them , or quicken them to an earnest supplication to him for mercy , they do all eminently concurr in the sad occasion of this daies solemnity . for if either compassion would move , or fear awaken , or interest engage us to any of these , it is hard to conceive there should be an instance of a more efficacious nature , than that is which we this day bewail ; for who can behold the ruines of so great a city , and not have his bowels of compassion moved towards it ? who can have any sense of the anger of god discovered in it , and not have his fear awakened by it ? who can ( as we ought all ) look upon it as a judgement of universal influence on the whole nation , and not think himself concerned to implore the mercy of heaven towards us ? for certainly , howsoever we may vainly flatter and deceive our selves , these are no common indications of the frowns of heaven ; nor are they mee●ly intended as the expressions of gods severity towards that city which hath suffered so much by them ; but the stroaks which fall upon the head ( though they light upon that only ) are designed for the punishment of the whole body . were there nothing else but a bare permission of divine providence as to these things , we could not reasonably think , but that god must needs be very angry with us , when he suffers two such dreadful calamities to tread almost upon each others heels ; that no sooner had death taken away such multitudes of our inhabitants , but a fire follows it to consume our habitations . a fire , so dreadful in its appearance , in its rage and fury , and in all the dismal consequences of it ( which we cannot yet be sufficiently apprehensive of ) that on that very account we may justly a lie down in our shame , and our confusion cover us : because god hath covered the daughter of sion with a cloud in his anger , and cast down from heaven to earth the beauty of israel , and remembred not his footstool in the day of his anger . for such was the violence and fury of the flames , that they have not only defaced the beauty of the city , and humbled the pride and grandeur of it ; not only stained its glory , and consumed its palaces ; but have made the houses of god themselves a heap of ruines , and a spectacle of desolation . and what then can we propose to our selves as arguments of gods severe displeasure against us , which we have not either already felt , or have just cause to fear are coming upon us without a speedy and sincere amendment ? if a sword abroad and pestilence at home , if fire in our houses and death in our streets , if foreign wars and domestick factions , if a languishing state and a discontented people , if the ruines of the city and poverty of the country , may make us sensible how sad our condition at present is , how much worse it may be ( if god in his mercy prevent it not ) we shall all surely think we have reason enough this day to lay to heart the evil of our doings which have brought all these things upon us , and abhor our selves , repenting in dust and ashes . that would seem indeed to bear some analogy with the present ruines of the city , and the calamities we lie under at this time ; but god will more easily dispense with the pompous shews , and solemn garbs of our humiliation ; if our hearts bleed within for our former impleties , and our repentance discovers its sincerity , by bringing us to that temper ; that , though we have done iniquity , we will do so no more . that is the true and proper end , which almighty god aims at , in all his judgements : he takes no delight in hurling the world into confusions , and turning cities into ruinous heaps , and making whole countries a desolation : but when he sees it necessary to vindicate the honour of his justice to the world , he doth it with that severity that may make us apprehend his displeasure , and yet with that mercy which may incourage us to repent and return unto the lord. thus we find in the instances recorded in the text , when some cities were consumed by him ; so that as far as concerned them , they were made like to sodom and gomorrah : yet he doth it with that kindness to the inhabitants , that they are pluckt as firebrands out of the burning : and therefore he looks upon it as a frustrating the design both of his iustice , and of his mercy , when he is fain to conclude with that sad reflection on their incorrigibleness ; yet have ye not returned unto me saith the lord. thus ye see what the design and scope of the words is , which i have read unto you , wherein we may consider , . the severity of the judgement which god was pleased to execute upon them . i have overthrown some of you , as god overthrew sodom and gomorrah . . the mixture of his mercy in the midst of his severity , and ye were as a firebrand pluckt out of the burning . . the incorrigibleness of the people notwithstanding both . yet have ye not , &c. in the first we have gods rod lifted up to strike , in the second we have gods hand stretched out to save , yet neither of these would make them sensible of their disobedience ; though their cities were overthrown for their sakes , though they themselves escaped not for their own sakes , but for his mercies sake only whom they had so lighly provoked ; yet have ye not returned unto me , saith the lord. i am sure i may say of the two former parts of the text , as our saviour doth in another case , this day hath this scripture been fulfilled among you : we have seen a sad instance of gods severity , a city almost wholly consumed as sodom and gomorah , and a great expression of his kindness , the inhabitants saved , as firebrands pluckt out of the burning : o let it never be said that the last part of the words is fulfilled too , yet have ye not returned unto me , &c. which , that it may not be , i shall first consider the severity of god in his judgement this day and then discover the mixture of his kindness with it , and the result of both will be the unreasonableness of obstinate disobedience after them . . the severity of the judgement here expressed : which , though we take it not in reference to the persons of men , but t● the cities wherein they dwelt : as it seems to be understood not only by the original wherein the words relating to persons are left out : but by the following clause , expressing their preservation : yet we shall find the judgement to be severe enough , in regard . of the nature and kind of it . . the series and order of it . . the causes moving to it . . the author of it . i have overthrown some of you , as god overthrew , &c. . the nature and kind of it : we can imagine nothing more severe when we consider what it is set forth by , the most unparalleld judgement we read of , viz. the destruction of sodom and gomorrah by a fire from heaven . although in all circumstances the instance might not come up to the parallel , yet in several respects there might be so sad a desolation , that any other example but that might fall beneath the greatness and severity of it . and we may better understand of how sad and dreadful a nature such a judgement must be , if we consider it with relation to the suddenness and unexpectedness of it , to the force and violence of it , and to all that sad train of circumstances which attend and follow it . . the suddenness and unexpectedness of it ; as god overthrew sodom and gomorrah , i. e. when they least of all looked for such a desolation . for thus it was in the days of lot ( as our saviour tells us ) a they did eat , they drank , thy bought , thy sold , they planted , they builded ; but the same day that lot went out of sodom , it rained fire and brimstone from heaven , and destroyed them all . they were all immersed either in their pleasures or in their business , they little thought of destruction being so near them as it proved to be ; thus it was with the iews in their first and latter destruction both of their city and country , they were as high and as confident of the contrary as might be to the very last ; nothing could perswade them that their temple or their city should be burnt with fire , till they saw them staming before their eyes . thus iosephus observes of his countrymen , that in the midst of all their miseries they had no kind of sense at all of their sins , but were as proud presumptuous and arrogant , as if all things went well with them ; and were like to do so . they thought god could not possibly punish such a people as they were in such a manner ; they could easily have believed it of any other people but themselves : but that god should punish his own people in covenant with him , that judgement should begin at the house of god , that they who had loved to be called by his name , should be made examples to all other nations ; this seemed so harsh and incredible that by no means could they entertain it . but god and wise men too thought otherwise of them than they did of themselves : they could not but see an outward shew of religion joyned with a deep and subtil hypocrisie ; there being among them an heap of pride and luxury , of fraud and injustice , of sedition and faction gilded over with a fair shew of greater zeal for god and his glory : which that impartial historian ( as one who knew them well ) hath described at large : and although they could not believe that such heavy judgements should befall them , yet others did not only believe , but tremble at the apprehensions of them . who among all the citizens of london could have been perswaded , but the day before the fire brake out , nay when they saw the flames for near a day together , that ever in four dayes time , not a fourth part of the city should be left standing ? for when were they ever more secure and inapprehensive of their danger than at this time ? they had not been long returned to their houses , which the plague had driven them from , and now they hoped to make some amends for the loss of their trade before ; but they returned home with the same sins they carried away with them ; like new moons , they had a new face and appearance , but the same spots remained still : or it may be , increased by that scumm they had gathered in the countries where they had been . like beasts of prey that had been chained up so long till they were hunger-bitten , when they once got loose they ran with that violence and greediness to their wayes of gain , as though nothing could ever satisfie them . but that which betrayed them to so much security , was their late deliverance from so sweeping a judgement as the plague had been to the city and suburbs of it : they could by no means think , when they had all so lately escaped the grave , that the city it self should be so near being buried in its own ruines ; that the fire which had missed their blood , should seize upon their houses ; that there should be no other way to purge the infected air , but by the flames of the whole city . thus when the mariners have newly escaped a wreck at sea , the fears of which have a long time deprived them of their wonted rest , they think they may securely lye down and sleep , till it may be another storm overtake and sink them . we see then there is neither piety nor wisdom in so much security when a great danger is over , for we know not but that very security it self may provoke god to send a greater . and no kind of judgements are so dreadful and amazing , as those which come most unexpectly upon men ; for these betray the succours which reason offers , they insatuate mens councils , weaken their courage , and deprive them of that presence of mind which is necessary at such a time for their own and the publick interest . and there needs no more to let us know how severe such a judgement must be , when it comes upon men in so sudden and unexpected a manner ; but that is not all , for the severity of it lyes further , . in the force and violence of it : and surely that was very great which consumed four cities to nothing in so short a time , when god did pluere gehennam de coelo as one expresses it , rained down hell-fire upon sodom and gomorrah . and this is that which some think is called the a vengeance of eternal fire , which all those in sodom and gomorrah are said to suffer ; i. e. a fire which consumed , till there was nothing left to be consumed by it . not but that those wicked persons did justly suffer the vengeance of an eternal fire in another life , but the apostle seems to set out and paint forth to us that in the life to come , by the force and violence of that fire which destroyed those cities ; and it would be harsh to say , that all who were involved in that common calamity ( who yet were innocent as to the great abominations of those places , viz. the infants there destroyed ) must be immediately sentenced to eternal misery . but although god since that perpetual monument of his justice in the destruction of those cities hath not by such an immediate fire from heaven consumed and razed out the very foundations of other cities ; yet at sometimes there are fires which break out and rage with a more than ordinary violence , and will not yield to those attempts for quenching them , which at other times may be attended with great success . such might that great fire in rome be in nero's time , which whether begun casually , or by design ( which was disputed then , as it hath been about others since ) did presently spread it self with greater speed over the cirque ( as the a historian tells us ) than the wind it self , and never left burning , till of fourteen regions in rome , but four were left entire . such might that be in the emperour titus his time , which lasted three dayes and nights , and was so irresistible in its fury , that the historian tells us , it was certainly more than an ordinary fire . such might that be in the same city in the time of commodus , which though all the art and industry imaginable were used for the quenching it , yet it burnt , till it had consumed besides the temple of peace , the fairest houses and palaces of the city , which on that account , the historians attribute to more than natural causes . such might that be ( which comes the nearest of any i have met with , to that fire we this day lament the effects of ) i mean that at constantinople , which happened b a. d. . in the beginning of september ; it brake forth by the water side , and raged with that horrible fury for four dayes together , that it burnt down the greatest part of the city , and was so little capable of resistance , that as c evagrius tells us , the strongest houses were but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , like so much dryed stubble before it ; by which means the whole city was , as he calls it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a most miserable and doleful spectacle ; so that as d baronius expresses it , that city which before was accounted the wonder of the world , was ma●… like unto sodom and gomorrah . such likewise might those two great fires have been which have formerly burnt down great part of the then city of london ; but neither of them come near the dreadfulness of this , considering how much bigger the habitations of the city were now , and how much greater the riches of it then could be imagined at those times . how great must we conceive the force of this fire to have been , which having at first gotten a head where there was little means of resisting it , and much fuel to increase it ; from thence it spead it self both with and against the wind ; till it had gained so considerable a force , that it despised all the resistance could be made by the strength of the buildings which stood in its way ; and when it had once subdued the strongest and the tallest of them , it then roared like the waves of the sea , and made its way through all the lesser obstacles , and might have gone on so far , till it had laid this city level with the ruines of the other , had not he who sets the bounds to the ocean , and saith , thus far shalt thou go and no farther , put a stop to it in those places which were as ready to have yielded up themselves to the rage of it , as any which had been consumed before . . the severity of it will yet more appear from all the dread ful circumstances which attend and follow it . could you suppose your selves in the midst of those cities which were consumed by fire from heaven , when it had seized upon their dwellings , o what cryes and lamentations , what yellings and shriekings might ye then have heard among them ! we may well think how dreadful those were , when we do but consider how sad the circumstances were of the fare we mourn for this day . when it began like sampson to break in pieces all the means of resisting it , and carried before it not only the gates , but the churches and most magnificent structures of the city , what horrour and confusion may we then imagine had seized upon the spirits of the citizens ; what distraction in their councils , what paleness in their countenances , what pantings at their hearts , what an universal consternation might have been then seen upon the minds of men ? but o the sighs and tears , the frights and amasements , the miscarriages , nay the deaths of some of the weaker sex at the terrour and apprehension of it ! o the hurry and useless pains , the alarms and tumults , the mutual hinderances of each other that were among men at the beholding the rage and fury of it ! there we might have seen women weeping for their children , for fear of their being trod down in the press , or lost in the crowd of people , or exposed to the violence of the flames ; husbands more solicitous for the safety of their wives and children , than their own ; the souldiers running to their swords , when there was more need of buckets ; the tradesemen loading their backs with that which had gotten possession of their hearts before . then we might have heard some complaining thus of themselves : o that i had been as careful of laying up treasures in heaven , as i have been upon earth , i had not been under such fears of losing them as now i am ! if i had served god as faithfully as i have done the world , he would never have left me as now that is like to do . what a fool have i been which have spent all my precious time for the gaining of that which may now be lost in an hours time ! if these flames be so dreadful , what are those which are reserved for them who love the world more than god! if none can come near the heat of this fire , who can dwell with everlasting burnings ! o what madness then will it be to sin any more wilfully against that god who is a consuming fire , infinitely more dreadful than this can be ! farewel then all ye deceitful vanities : now i understand thee and my self better , o bewitching world , then to fix my happiness in thee any more . i will henceforth learn so much wisdom to lay up my treasures there where neither moths can corrupt them , not thieves steal them , nor fire consume them . o how happy would london be , if this were the effect of her flames on the minds of all her inhabitants ! she might then rise with a greater glory , and her inward beauty would outshine her outward splendour , let it be as great as we can wish or imagine . but in the mean time who can behold her present ruines , without paying some tears as due to the sadness of the spectacle , and more to the sins which caused them ? if that city were able to speak out of its ruines , what sad complaints would it make of all those impieties which have made her so miserable . if it had not been ( might she say ) for the pride and luxury , the ease and delicacy of some of my inhabitants , the covetousness , the fraud , the injustice of others , the debaucheries of the prophane , the open factions and secret hypocrisie of two many pretending to greater sanctity , my beauty had not been thus turned into ashes , nor my glory into those ruines which make my enemies rejoyce , my friends to mourn , and all stand amazed at the beholding of them . look now upon me , you who so lately admired the greatness of my trade , the riches of my merchants , the number of my people , the conveniency of my churches , the multitude of my streets , and see what desolations sin hath made in the earth . look upon me , and then tell me whether it be nothing to dally with heaven , to make a mock at sin , to slight the judgements of god , and abuse his mercies , and after all the attempts of heaven to reclaim a people from their sins , to remain still the same that ever they were ? was there no way to expiate your guilt but by my misery ? had the leprosie of your sins so fretted in my walls , that there was no cleansing them , but by the flames which consume them ? must i mourn in my dust and ashes for your iniquities , while you are so ready to return to the practice of them ? have i suffered so much by reason of them , and do you think to escape your selves ? can you then look upon my ruines with hearts as heard and unconcerned as the stones which lye in them ? if you have any kindness for me , or for your selves , if you ever hope to see my breaches repaired , my beauty restored , my glory advanced , look on londons ruines and repent . thus would she bid her inhabitants not weep for her miseries , but for their own sins ; for if never any sorrow was like to her sorrow , it is because never any sins were like to their sins . not as though they were only the sins of the city , which have brought this evil upon her , no , but as far as the judgement reaches , so great hath the compass of the sins been , which have provoked god to make her an example of his justice . and i fear the effects of londons calamity will be felt all the nation over . for , considering the present languishing condition of this nation , it will be no easie matter to recover the blood and spirits which have been lost by this fire . so that whether we consider the sadness of those circumstances which accompanied the rage of the fire , or those which respect the present miseries of the city , or the general influence those will have upon the nation , we cannot easily conceive what judgement could in so critical a time have befallen us , which had been more severe for the kind and nature of it , than this hath been . . we consider it in the series and order of it . we see by the text , this comes in the last place , as a reserve , when nothing else would do any good upon them : it is extrema medicina , as a st. hierom saith , the last attempt that god uses to reclaim a people by , and if these causticks will not do , it is to be feared he looks upon the wounds as incurable . he had sent a famine before , v. . a drought , v. , . blasting and mildew , v. . the pestilence after the manner of aegypt , v. . the miseries of war in the same verse . and when none of these would work that effect upon them , which they were designed for , then he comes to this last way of punishing before a final destruction , he overthrew some of their cities as he had overthrown sodom and gomorrah . god forbid , we should be so near a final subversion , and utter desolation , as the ten tribes were , when none of these things would bring them to repentance ; but yet the method god hath used with us seems to bode very ill in case we do not at last return to the lord. for it is not only agreeable to what is here delivered as the course god used to reclaim the israelites , but to what is reported by the most faithful hisiorian of those times of the degrees and steps that god made before the ruines of the british nation . for b gildas tells us the decay of it began by civil wars among themselves , and high discontents remaining as the consequents of them , after this an universal decay and poverty among them ; after that , nay during the continuance of it , wars with the picts and scots their inveterate enemies ; but no sooner had they a little breathing space , but they return to their luxury and other sins again ; then god sends among them a consuming pestilence , which destroyed an incredible number of people . when all this would not do , those whom they trusted most to , betrayed them , and rebelled against them , by whose means , not only the cities were burnt with fire , but the whole island was turned almost into one continued flame . the issue of all which at last was , that their country was turned to a desolation , the ancient inhabitants driven out , or destroyed , and their former servants , but now their bitter enemies , possessing their habitations . may god avert the omen from us at this day . we have smarted by civil wars , and the dreadful effects of them ; we yet complain of great discontents and poverty as great as them , we have inveterate enemies combined abroad against us , we have very lately suffered under a pestilence as great almost as any we read of , and now the great city of our nation burnt down by a dreadful fire . and what do all these things mean ? and what will the issue of them be ? though that be lockt up in the councils of heaven , yet we have just cause to fear , if it be not our speedy amendment , it may be our ruine . and they who think that incredible , let them tell me whether two years since , they did not think it altogether as improbable , that in the compass of the two succeeding years , above a hundred thousand persons should be destroyed by the plague in london and other places , and the city it self should be burnt to the ground ? and if our fears do not , i am sure our sins may tell us , that these are but the fore-runners of greater calamities , in case there be not a timely reformation of our selves . and although god may give us some intermissions of punishments , yet at last he may , as the roman consul expressed it , pay us intercalatae poenae usuram , that which may make amends for all his abatements , and give us full measure according to that of our sins , pressed down , shaken together , and running over . which leads to the third particular . . the causes moving god to so much severity in his iudgements , which are the greatness of the sins committed against him . so this prophet tells us , that the true account of all gods punishments is to be fetched from the sins of the people , amos . . for three transgressions of damascus , and for four i will not turn away the punishment thereof : so it is said of gaza , v. . of tyrus , v. . of edom , v. . of ammon , v. . moab , ch . . . iudah . v. . and at last israel . v. . and it is observable of every one of these , that when god threatens to punish them for the greatness of their iniquities , and the multitude of their transgressions , ( which is generally supposed to be meant by the three transgressions and the four ) he doth particularly threaten to send a fire among them to consume the houses and the palaces of their cities . so to damascus , chap. . . to gaza , v. . to tyrus , v. . to edom , v. . to ammon , v. . to moab , ch . . v. . to iudah , v. . i will send a fire upon judah , and it shall devour the palaces of jerusalem : and israel in the words of the text . this is a judgement then , which when it comes in its fury , gives us notice to how great a height our sins are risen ; especially when it hath so many dreadful forerunners , as it had in israel , and hath had among our selves . when the red horse hath marched furiously before it all bloody with the effects of a civil war , and the pale horse hath followed after the other with death upon his back , and the grave at his heels , and after both these , those come , out of whose mouth issues fire , and smoak , and brimstone , it is then time for the inhabitants of the earth , to repent of the work of their hands . but it is our great unhappiness , that we are apt to impute these great calamities to any thing rather than to our sins ; and thereby we hinder our selves from the true remedy , because we will not understand the cause of our distemper . though god hath not sent prophets among us , to tell us for such and such sins , i will send such and such judgements upon you , yet where we observe the parallel between the sins and the punishments agreeable with what we find recorded in scripture , we have reason to say , that those sins were not only the antecedents , but the causes of those punishments which followed after them . and that because the reason of punishment was not built upon any particular relation between god and the people of israel , but upon reasons common to all mankind ; yet with this difference , that the greater the mercies were which any people enjoyed , the sooner was the measure of their iniquities filled up , and the severer were the judgements when they came upon them . this our prophet gives an account of , chap. . . you only have i known of all the nations of the earth , therefore will i punish you for your iniquities . so did god punish tyre and damascus , as well as israel and iudah ; but his meaning is , he would punish them sooner , he would punish them more severely . i wish we could be brought once to consider what influence piety and vertue hath upon the good of a nation , if we did , we should not only live better our selves , but our kingdom and nation might flourish more than otherwise we are like to see it do . which is a truth hath been so universally received among the wise men of all ages , that one of the roman historians , though of no very severe life himself , yet imputes the decay of the roman state , not to chance or fortune , or some unhidden causes ( which the atheism of our age would presently do ) but to the general looseness of mens lives , and corruption of their manners . and it was the grave observation of one of the bravest a captains ever the roman state had , that it was impossible for any state to be happy , stantibus moenibus , ruentibus moribus , though their walls were firm , if their manners were decayed . but it is our misery , that our walls and our manners are fallen together , or rather the latter undermined the former . they are our sins which have drawn so much of our blood , and infected our air , and added the greatest fuel to our flames . but it is not enough in general to declaim against our sins , but we must search out particularly those predominant vices , which by their boldness and frequency have provoked god thus to punish us ; and as we have hitherto observed a parallel between the iudgements of israel in this chapter , and our own : so i am afraid we shall find too sad a parallel between their sins and ours too . three sorts of sins are here spoken of in a peculiar manner , as the causes of their severe punishments , their luxury and intemperance , their covetousness and oppression , and their contempt of god and his laws , and i doubt we need not make a very exact scrutiny to find out these in a high degree among our selves : and i wish it were as easie to reform them , as to find them out . . luxury and intemperance ; that we meet with in the first verse , both in the compellation , ye kine of bashan , and in their behaviour , which say to their masters , bring and let us drink . ye kine of bashan , loquitur ad principes israel & optimates quosque decem tribuum , saith st. hierom , he speaks to the princes of israel , and the chief of all the ten tribes ; those which are fed in the richest pasturés , such as those of bashan were . who are more fully described by the prophet in this sixth chapter . they are the men who are at ease in sion , v. . they put far away from them the evil day , v. . they lye upon beds of ivory , and stretch themselves upon their couches , and eat the lambs out of the flock , and the calves out of the midst of the stall , v. . they chaunt to the sound of the viol , and invent to themselves instruments of musick like david . v. . they drink wine in bowls , and anoint themselves with the chief oyntments , but they are not grieved for the affliction of joseph . the meaning of all which is , they minded nothing but ease , softness , and pleasure , but could not endure to hear of the calamities which were so near them . nothing but mirth , and jollity , and riot , and feasting , and the evil consequences of these were to be seen or heard among them . their delicate souls were presently rufled and disturbed at the discourse of any thing but matters of courtship , address and entertainment . any thing that was grave and serious , ●hough never so necessary , and of the greatest importance , ●●s put off , as felix put off st. paul to a more convenient time : especially if it threatned miseries to them , and appeared with a countenance sadder than their own . these were the kine of bashan , who were full of ease and wantonness , and never thought of the day of slaughter , which the other were the certain fore-runner of . symmachus renders it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which others apply to the rich citizens of samaria , i am afraid we may take it in either sense without a soloecism . bring and let us drink , which as st. hierom goes on , ebrietatem significat in vino & luxuria quae statum mentis evertunt , it implies the height of their luxury and intemperance . it is observed by some , that our prophet retains still the language of his education in the bluntness of his expressions , the great men that lived wholly at their ease , in wantonness and luxury , he styles like the heardsman of tekoa , the kine of bashan . that he thought was title good enough for such who seemed to have souls for no other end , than the other had . and hath not that delicata insania , as st. austin calls it , that soft and effeminate kind of madness taken possession of too many among us , whose birth and education designed them for more manly imployments ? yea , what an age of luxury do we live in , when instead of those noble characters of men from their vertue , and wisdom , and courage , it is looked on among some as a mighty character of a person , that he eats and drinks well : a character that becomes none so much as the kine of bashan in the literal sense , for surely they did so , or else they had never been in so great esteem among the heardsmen of tekoa . a character which those philosophers would have been ashamed of , who looked upon no other end of humane life but pleasure ; but in order to that , they thought nothing more necessary than temperance and sobriety ; but whatever esteem they had then , they have lost all their reputation among our modern epicures , who know of no such things as pleasures of the mind , and would not much value whether they had any faculties of the mind or no , unless it were for the contrivance of new oaths and debaucheries . but if this were only among some few persons , we hope the whole nation would not suffer for their madness : for scarce any age hath been so happy , but it hath had some monsters in morality as well as nature . but i am afraid these vices are grown too epidemical ; not only in the city , but the countries too ; what mean else those frequent complaints ( and i hope more general than the causes of them ) that the houses of great men in too many places are so near being publick schools of debauchery , rather than of piety and vertue , where men shall not want instructers to teach them to forget both god and themselves ; wherein sobriety is so far from being accounted a matter of honour , that the rules of the persian civility are quite forgotten , and men are forced to unman themselves . i know nothing would tend more to the honour of our nation , or the advantage of it , than if once these publick excesses were severely restrained , i do not mean so much by making new laws , ( for those generally do but exercise peoples wits by finding out new evasions ) but by executing old ones . . covetousness and oppression . you see what these great men in samaria did when they had any respite from their excesses , and intemperance , then wo be to the poor who come in their way ; which oppress the poor , and crush the needy : v. . either by the hands of violence , or by those arts and devices which either their honesty or poverty have kept them from the knowledge of . and if there be not so much of open violence in our daies , the thanks are due to the care of our magistrates , and the severity of our laws , but it is hard to say whether ever any age produced more studious and skilful to pervert the design of laws , without breaking the letter of them , than this of ours hath done . fraud and injustice is now managed with a great deal of artifice and cunning ; and he thinks himself no body in the understanding of the world , that cannot over-reach his brother , and not be discovered : or however in the multiplicity and obscurity of our laws cannot find out something in pretence at least to justifie his actions by . but if appeal be made to the courts of iudicature , what arts are then used either for concealing or hiring witnesses , so that if their purses be not equal , the adverse party may overswear him by so much as his purse is weightier than the others . i heartily wish it may never be said of us , what the orator once said of the greeks , a quibus jusjurandum jocus , testimonium ludus , they made it a matter of jest and drollery to forswear themselves , and give false testimonies . but supposing men keep within the bounds of justice and common honesty , yet how unsatiable are the desires of men ! they are for adding house to house , and land to land , never contented with what either their ancestors have left them , or the bountiful hand of heaven hath bestowed upon them . till at last it may be in the prophets expression for their covetousness , b the stone cry out of the wall , and the beam out of the timber answer it ; i. e. provoke god to give a severe check to the exorbitant and boundless desires of men , as he hath done by this days calamity . thus while the city thought with c babylon to sit as a lady for ever , while she dwelt carelsly , and said i am , and there is none else beside me ; evil is come upon her , and she knows not from whence it comes , and mischief is fallen upon her , and she hath not been able to put it off , and desolation is come upon her suddenly , which she did not foresee . . contempt of god and his laws . that we read of v. . where the prophet speaks by an irony to them , come to bethel and transgress , &c. he knew well enough they were resolved to do it , let god or the prophet say what they pleased . for these kine of bashan were all for the calves of dan and bethel , and some think that is the reason of the title that is given them . these great men of samaria thought it beneath them to own religion any further than it was subservient to their civil interests . they were all of ieroboams religion , who looked on it as a meer politick thing , and fit to advance his own designs by . i am afraid there are too many at this day who are secretly of his mind , and think it a piece of wisdom to be so : blessed god , that men should be so wise to deceive themselves , and go down with so much discretion to hell ! these are the grave and retired atheists , who , though they secretly love not religion , yet their caution hinders them from talking much against it . but there is a sort of men much more common than the other ; the faculties of whose minds are so thin and aiery , that they will not bear the consideration of any thing , much less of religion ; these throw out their bitter scoffs , and prophane jests against it . a thing never permitted that i know of in any civilized nation in the world ; whatsoever their religion was , the reputation of religion was always preserved sacred : god himself ( saith iosephus ) would not suffer the iews to speak evil of other gods , though they were to destroy all those who tempted them to the worship of them . and shall we suffer the most excellent and reasonable religion in the world , viz. the christian , to be profaned by the unhallowed mouths of any who will venture to be damned , to be accounted witty ? if their enquiries were deeper , their reason stronger , or their arguments more perswasive , than of those who have made it their utmost care and business to search into these things , they ought to be allowed a fair hearing ; but for men who pretend to none of these things , yet still to make religion the object of their scoffs and raillery , doth not become the gravity of a nation professing wisdom to permit it , muche less the sobriety of a people professing christianity . in the mean time such persons may know , that wise men may be argued out of a religion they own , but none but fools and mad men will be droll'd out of it . let them first try whether they can laugh men out of their estates , before they attempt to do it out of their hopes of an eternal happiness . and i am sure it will be no comfort to them in another world , that they were accounted wits for deriding those miseries which they then feel and smart under the severity of : it will be no mitigation of their flames that they go laughing into them ; nor will they endure them the better because they would not believe them . but while this is so prevailing a humour among the vain men of this age and nation , what can we expect but that god should by remarkable and severe judgements , seek to make men more serious in religion ; or else make their hearts to ake , and their joints to tremble , as he did belshazzars , when he could find nothing else to carouse in but the vessels of the temple . and when men said in the prophet zephany , chap. . . that god neither did good nor evil , presently it follows , a therefore their goods shall become a booty , and their houses a desolation : the day of the lord is near , a day of wrath , a day of trouble and distress , a day of wastness and desolation ; as it is with us at this time . thus we see how sad the parallel hath been not only in the judgements of israel , but in the sins likewise which have made those judgements so severe . . the severity of the judgement appears not only from the causes , but from the author of it . i have overthrown some of you as god overthrew sodom and gomorrah . god challenges the execution of his justice to himself , not only in the great day , but in his judgement here in the world . b shall there be evil in a city and the lord hath not done it ? when god is pleased to punish men for their sins , the excution of his justice is agreeable to his nature now , as it will be at the end of the world . we all know that he may do it if he please , and he hath told us , that he doth and will do it ; and we know withal , that without such remarkable severities , the world will hardly be kept in any awe of him . we do not find that love doth so much in the world as fear doth , there being so very few persons of tractable and ingenuous spirits . it is true of too many , what c lactantius observes of the romans , nunquam dei meminerunt , nisi dum in malis sunt , they seldom think of god , but when they are afraid of him . and there is not only this reason as to particular persons why god should punish them , but there is a greater as to communities , and bodies of men ; for although god suffers wicked men to escape punishment here , as he often doth ; yet he is sure not to do it in the life to come ; but communities of men can never be punished but in this world ; and therefore the justice of god doth often discover it self in these common calamities , to keep the world in subjection to him , and to let men see that neither the multitude of their associates , nor the depth of their designs , nor the subtilty of their councils can secure them from the omnipotent arm of divine justice , when he hath determined to visit their transgressions with rods , and their iniquities with stripes . but when he doth all this , yet his loving kindness doth he not utterly take from them : for in the midst of all his judgements he is pleased to remember mercy ; of which we have a remarkable instance in the text , for when god was overthrowing cities , yet he pluckt the inhabitants as firebrands out of the burning : and so i come from the severity of god. . to the mixture of his mercy in it . and ye were as a fire-brand pluckt out of the burning . that notes two things , the nearness they were in to the danger , and the unexpectedness of their deliverance out of it . . the nearness they were in to the danger , quasi torris , cujus jam magna pars absumpta est , as some paraphrase it ; like a brand , the greatest part of which is already consumed by fire ; which shews the difficulty of their escaping . so ioshua is said to be a brand pluckt out of the fire , zech. . . and to this st. hierom upon this place , applies that difficult passage , cor. . . they shall be saved , but so as by fire , noting the greatness of the danger they were in , and how hardly they they should escape . and are not all the inhabitants of this city , and all of us in the suburbs of the other , whose houses escaped so near the flames , as firebrands pluckt out of the burning ? when the fire came on in its rage and sury , as though it would in a short time have devoured all before it , that not only this whole city , but so great a part of the suburbs of the other should escape untouched , is ( all circumstances considered ) a wonderful expression of the kindness of god to us in the midst of so much severity . if he had suffered the fire to go on to have consumed the remainder of our churches and houses , and laid this city even with the other in one continued heap of ruines , we must have said , iust art thou , o lord , and righteous in all thy judgements . we ought rather to have admired his patience in sparing us so long ; than complain of this rigour of his justice in punishing us at last ; but instead of that he hath given us occasion this day with the three children in the fiery furnace to praise him in the midst of the flames . for even the inhabitants of london themselves who have suffered most in this calamity , have cause to acknowledge the mercy of god towards them , that they are escaped themselves ; though it be ( as the iews report of ioshua the high-priest , when thrown into the fire by the chaldeans ) with their cloaths burnt about them . though their habitations be consumed , and their losses otherwise may be too great , yet that in the midst of so much danger by the flames , and the press of people , so very few should suffer the loss of their lives , ought to be owned by them and us as a miraculous providence of god towards them . and therefore not unto us , not unto us , but to his holy name be the praise of so great a preservation in the midst of so heavy a judgement . . the unexpectedness of such a deliverance ; they are not saved by their own skill and counsel , nor by their strength and industry , but by him who by his mighty hand did pluck them as fire-brands out of the burning . though we own the justice of god in the calamities of this day , let us not forget his mercy in what he hath unexpectedly rescued from the fury of the flames ; that the royal palaces of our gratious soveraign , the residence of the nobility , the houses of parliament , the courts of iudicature , the place where we are now assembled and several others of the same nature , with other places and habitations to receive those who were burnt out of their own , stand at this day untouched with the fire ( and long may they continue so ) ought chiefly to be ascribed to the power and goodness of that god , who not only commands the raging of the sea , and the madness of the people , but whom the winds and the flames obey . although enough in a due subordination to divine providence can never be attributed to the mighty care and industry of our most gracious soveraign , and his royal holiness , who by their presence and incouragement inspired a new life and vigour into the sinking spirits of the citizens , whereby god was pleased so far to succeed their endeavours , that a stop was put to the fury of the fire in such places where it was as likely to have prevailed , as in any parts of the city consumed by it . o let us not then frustrate the design of so much severity mixed with so great mercy : let it never be said , that neither judgements nor kindness will work upon us : that neither our deliverance from the pestilence which walks in darkness , nor from the flames which shine as the noon-day , will awaken us from that lethargy and security we are in by our sins : but let god take what course he pleases with us , we are the same incorrigible people still that ever we were . for we have cause enough for our mourning and lamentation this day , ( if god had not sent new calamities upon us ) that we were no better for those we had undergone before . we have surfeited with mercies , and grown sick of the kindness of heaven to us , and when god hath made us smart for our fulness and wantonness , then we grew sullen and murmured and disputed against providence , and were willing to do any thing but repent of our sins , and reform our lives . it is not many years since god blessed us with great and undeserved blessings , which we then thought our selves very thankful for ; but if we had been really so , we should never have provoked him who bestowed those savours upon us in so great a degree as we have done since . was this our requital to him for restoring our soveraign , to rebel the more against heaven ? was this our thankfulness , for removing the disorders of church and state , to bring them into our lives ? had we no other way of trying the continuance of gods goodness to us , but by exercising his patience by our greater provocations ? as though we had resolved to let the world see , there could be a more unthankful and disobedient people than the iews had been . thus we sinned with as much security and confidence , as though we had blinded the eyes , or bribed the justice , or commanded the power of heaven . when god of a sudden like one highly provoked drew forth the sword of his destroying angel , and by it cut off so many thousands in the midst of us : then we fell upon our knees , and begg'd the mercy of heaven , that our lives might be spared , that we might have time to amend them : but no sooner did our fears abate , but our devotion did so too , we had soon forgotten the promises we made in the day of our distress , and i am afraid it is at this day too true of us which is said in the revelations of those who had escaped the several plagues which so many had been destroyed by . a and the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues , yet repented not of the work of their bands . for if we had not greedily suckt in again the poyson we had only laid down while we were begging for our lives , if we had not returned with as great fury and violence as ever to our former lusts , the removing of one judgement had not been as it were only to make way for the coming on of another . for the grave seemed to close up her mouth , and death by degrees to withdraw himself , that the fire might come upon the stage , to act its part too in the tragoedy our sins have made among us : and i pray god this may be the last act of it . let us not then provoke god to find out new methods of vengeance , and make experiments upon us of what other unheard of severities may do for our cure . but let us rather meet god now by our repentance , and returning to him , by our serious humiliation for our former sins , and our stedfast resolutions to return no more to the practice of them . that , that much more dangerous infection of our souls may be cured as well as that of our bodies , that the impure flames which burn within may be extinguished , that all our luxuries may be retrenched , our debaucheries punished , our vanities taken away , our careless indifferency in religion turned into a greater seriousness both in the profession and the practice of it . so will god make us a happy and prosperous , when he finds us a more righteous and holy nation . so will god succeed all your endeavours for the honour and interest of that people whom you represent . so may he add that other title to the rest of those you have deserved for your countries good , to make you repairers of the breaches of the city as well as of the nation , and restorers of paths to dwell in : so may that city which now sits solitary like a widow , have her tears wiped off , and her beauty and comeliness restored unto her . yea , so may her present ruines , in which she now lies buried , be only the fore-runners of a more joyful resurrection . in which , though the body may remain the same , the qualities may be so altered , that its present desolation may be only the putting off its former inconveniences , weakness , and deformities , that it may rise with greater glory , strength and proportion : and to all her other qualities , may that of incorruption be added too , at least till the general conflagration . and i know your great wisdom and iustice will take care , that those who have suffered by the ruines , may not likewise suffer by the rising of it , that the glory of the city may not be laid upon the tears of the orphans and widows , but that its foundations may be setled upon justice and piety . that there be no complaining in the streets for want of righteousness , nor in the city for want of churches , nor in the churches for want of a settled maintenance . that those who attend upon the service of god in them may never be tempted to betray their consciences to gain a livelihood , nor to comply with the factions humours of men , that they may be able to live among them . and thus when the city through the blessing of heaven shall be built again , may it be a habitation of holiness towards god , of loyalty towards our gratious king and his successors , of iustice and righteousness towards men , of sobriety , and peace , and unity among all the inhabitants , till not cities and countries only , but the world and time it self shall be no more . which god of his infinite mercy grant through the merits and mediation of his son , to whom with the father and eternal spirit , be all honour and glory for evermore . sermon ii. preached before the king , march . / . prov . xiv . ix . fools make a mock at sin. when god by his infinite wisdom had contrived , and by a power and goodness , as infinite as his wisdom , had perfected the creation of the visible world , there seemed to be nothing wanting to the glory of it , but a creature endued with reason and understanding , which might comprehend the design of his wisdom , enjoy the benefits of his goodness , and employ it self in the celebration of his power . the beings purely intellectual were too highly raised by their own order and creation , to be the lords of this inferiour world : and those whose natures could reach no higher than the objects of sense , were not capable of discovering the glorious perfections of the great creator : and therefore could not be the fit instruments of his praise and service . but a conjunction of both these together was thought necessary to make up such a sort of being , which might at once command this lower world , and be the servants of him who made it . not as though this great fabrick of the world were meerly raised for man to please his fancy in the contemplation of it , or to exercise his dominion over the creatures designed for his use and service : but that by frequent reflections on the author of his being , and the effects of his power and goodness he might be brought to the greatest love and admiration of him . so that the most natural part of religion lyes in the grateful acknowledgements we owe to that excellent and supream being , who hath shewed so particular a kindness to man in the creation and government of the world . which was so great and unexpressible , that some have thought , it was not so much pride and affectation of a greater height , as envy at the felicity and power of mankind , which was the occasion of the fall of the apostate spirits . but whether or no the state of man were occasion enough for the envy of the spirits above ; we are sure the kindness of heaven was so great in it , as could not but lay an indispensable obligation on all mankind to perpetual gratitude and obedience . for it is as easie to suppose , that affronts and injuries are the most suitable returns for the most obliging favours , that the first duty of a child should be to destroy his parents ; that to be thankful for kindnesses received , were to commit the unpardonable sin ; as that man should receive his being and all the blessings which attend it from god , and not be bound to the most universal obedience to him . and as the reflection on the author of his being , leads him to the acknowledgement of his duty towards god , so the consideration of the design of it , will more easily acquaint him with the nature of that duty which is expected from him . had man been designed only to act a short part here in the world , all that had been required of him , had been only to express his thankfulness to god for his being , and the comforts of it : the using all means for the due preservation of himself ; the doing nothing beneath the dignity of humane nature , nothing injurious to those who were of the same nature with himself ; but since he is designed for greater and nobler ends , and his present state , is but a state of tryal , in order to future happiness and misery ; the reason of good and evil is not to be taken meerly from his present , but from the respect , which things have to that eternal state he is designed for . from whence it follows , that the differences of good and evil are rooted in the nature of our beings , and are the necessary consequents of our relation to god , and each other , and our expectations of a future life . and therefore according to these measures , the estimation of men in the world hath been while they did preserve any veneration for god or themselves . wisdom and folly was not measured so much by the subtilty and curiosity of mens speculations , by the fineness of their thoughts , or the depth of their designs , as by their endeavours to uphold the dignity of mankind ; by their piety and devotion towards god ; by their sobriety and due government of their actions ; by the equality and justice , the charity and kindness of their dealings to one another . wisdom was but another name for goodness , and folly for sin ; then it was a mans glory to be religious ; and to be prophane and vitious , was to be base and mean : then there were no gods worshipped because they were bad , nor any men disgraced because they were good . then there were no temples erected to the meanest passions of humane nature , nor men became idolaters to their own infirmities . then to be betrayed into sin , was accounted weakness ; to contrive it , dishonour and baseness ; to justifie and defend it , infamy and reproach ; to make a mock at it , a mark of the highest folly and incorrigibleness . so the wise man in the words of the text assures us , that they are fools , and those of the highest rank and degree of folly , who make a mock at sin . it is well for us in the age we live in , that we have the judgement of former ages to appeal to , and of those persons in them whose reputation for wisdom is yet unquestionable . for otherwise we might be born down by that spightful enemy to all vertue and goodness , the impudence of such , who it is hard to say whether they shew it more in committing sin , or in defending it . men whose manners are so bad , that scarce any thing can be imagined worse , unless it be the wit they use to excuse them with . such who take the measure of mans perfections downwards , and the nearer they approach to beasts , the more they think themselves to act like men . no wonder then , if among such as these the differences of good and evil be laughed at , and no sin be thought so unpardonable , as the thinking that there is any at all . nay , the utmost they will allow in the description of sin , is , that it is a thing that some live by declaiming against , and others cannot live without the practice of . but is the chair of scorners at last proved the only chair of infallibility ? must those be the standard of mankind , who seem to have little left of humane nature , but laughter and the shape of men ? do they think that we are all become such fools to take scoffs for arguments , and raillery for demonstrations ? he knows nothing at all of goodness , that knows not that it is much more easie to laugh at it , than to practise it ; and it were worth the while to make a mock at sin , if the doing so would make nothing of it . but the nature of things does not vary with the humours of men ; sin becomes not at all the less dangerous because men have so little wit to think it so ; nor religion the less excellent and advantagious to the world , because the greatest enemies of that are so much to themselves too , that they have learnt to despise it . but although that scorns to be defended by such weapons whereby her enemies assault her , ( nothing more unbecoming the majesty of religion , than to make it self cheap , by making others laugh ) yet if they can but obtain so much of themselves to attend with patience to what is serious , there may be yet a possibility of perswading them , that no fools are so great as those who laugh themselves into misery , and none so certainly do so , as those who make a mock at sin . but if our authority be too mean and contemptible to be relyed on , in a matter wherein they think us so much concerned ( and so i hope we are to prevent the ruine of mens souls ) we dare with confidence appeal to the general sense of mankind in the matter of our present debate . let them name but any one person in all the monuments of former ages , to whom but the bare suspicion of vice was not a diminution to an esteem that might otherwise have been great in the world . and if the bare suspicion would do so much among even the more rude and barbarous nations , what would open and professed wickedness do among the more knowing and civil ? humane nature retains an abhorrency of sin , so far that it is impossible for men to have the same esteem of those who are given over to all manner of wickedness , though otherwise of great sharpness of wit , and of such whose natural abilities may not exceed the other , but yet do govern their actions according to the strict rules of religion and vertue . and the general sense of mankind cannot be by any thing better known , than by an universal consent of men , as to the ways whereby they express their value and esteem of others . what they all agree on as the best character of a person worthy to be loved and honoured , we may well think is the most agreeable to humane nature ; and what is universally thought a disparagement to the highest accomplishments , ought to be looked on as the disgrace and imperfection of it . did ever any yet , though never so wicked and prosane themselves , seriously commend another person for his rudeness and debaucheries ? was any mans lust or intemperance ever reckoned among the titles of his honour ? who ever yet raised trophies to his vices , or thought to perpetuate his memory by the glory of them ? where was it ever known , that sobriety and temperance , justice and charity were thought the marks of reproach and infamy ? who ever suffered in their reputation by being thought to be really good ? nay , it is so far from it , that the most wicked persons do inwardly esteem them whether they will or no. by which we see , that even in this lapsed and degenerate condition of mankind , it is only goodness which gains true honour and esteem , and nothing doth so effectually blast a growing reputation , as wickedness and vice . but if it be thus with the generality of men , who were never yet thought to have too much partiality towards goodness , we may much more easily find it among those , who have had a better ground for the reputation of their wisdom , than the meer vogue of the people . he who was pronounced by the heathen oracle , to be the wisest among the greeks , was the person who brought down philosophy from the obscure and uncertain speculations of nature , and in all his discourses recommended vertue as the truest wisdom . and he among the iews , whose a soul was as large as the sand on the sea shore , whose wisdom out-went that of all the persons of his own or future ages , writes a book on purpose to perswade men , that there is no real wisdom , but to fear god and keep his commandments : that sin is the greatest folly , and the meaner apprehensions men have of it , the more they are infatuated by the temptations to it . but as there are degrees of sinning , so there are of folly in it . some sin with a blushing countenance , and a trembling conscience ; they sin , but yet they are afraid to sin , but in the act of it they condemn them selves for what they do ; they sin , but with confusion in their faces , with horror in their minds , and an earthquake in their consciences : though the condition of such persons be dangerous , and their unquietness shews the greatness of their folly , yet because these twitches of conscience argue there are some quick touches left of the sense of good and evil , their case is not desperate , nor their condition incurable : but there are others who despise these as the reproach of the school of wickedness , because they are not yet attained to those heights of impiety which they glory in : such who have subdued their consciences much easier than others do their sins ; who have almost worn out all the impressions of the work of the law written in their hearts ; who not only make a practice , but a boast of sin , and defend it with as much greediness as they commit it : these are the men , whose folly is manifest to all men but themselves ; and surely , since these are the men , whom solomon in the words of the text describes , ( . ) by their character , as fools , and , ( ) by the instance of their folly , in making a mock at sin ; we may have not only the liberty to use , but ( . ) to prove , that name of reproach to be due unto them ; and ( . ) to shew the reasonableness of fastning it upon them , because they make a mock at sin . but before i come more closely to pursue that , it will be necessary to consider another sense of these words caused by the ambiguity of the hebrew verb , which sometimes signifies to deride and scorn , sometimes to plead for , and excuse a thing with all the arts of rhetorick ( thence the word for rhetorick is derived from the verb here used ) according to which sense , it notes all the plausible pretences and subtle extenuations which wicked men use in defence of their evil actions . for as if men intended to make some recompence for the folly they betray in the acts of sin , by the wit they employ in the pleading for them , there is nothing they shew more industry and care in , than in endeavouring to baffle their own consciences , and please themselves in their folly , till death and eternal flames awaken them . that we may not therefore seem to beg all wicked men for fool● , till we have heard what they have to say for themselves , we shall first examine the reasonableness of their fairest pleas for their evil actions , before we make good the particular impeachment of folly against them . there are three ways especially whereby they seek to justifie themselves ; by laying the blame of all their evil actions , either upon the fatal necessity of all events , the unavoidable frailty of humane nature , or the impossibility of keeping the laws of heaven : but that none of these will serve to excuse them from the just imputation of folly , is our present business to discover . . the fatal necessity of all humane actions . those who upon any other terms are unwilling enough to own either god or providence , yet if they can but make these serve their turn to justifie their sins by , their quarrel against them then ceaseth , as being much more willing that god should bear the blame of their sins , than themselves . but yet the very fears of a deity suggest so many dreadful thoughts of his majesty , iustice , and power , that they are very well contented to have him wholly left out ; and then to suppose man to be a meer engine , that is necessarily moved by such a train and series of causes , that there is no action how bad soever that is done by him , which it was any more possible for him not to have done , than for the fire not to burn when it pleases . if this be true , farewel all the differences of good and evil in mens actions ; farewel all expectations of future rewards and punishments ; religion becomes but a meer name , and righteousness but an art to live by . but it is with this , as it is with the other arguments they use against religion ; there is something within , which checks and controlls them in what they say : and that inward remorse of conscience , which such men sometimes feel in their evil actions ( when conscience is forced to recoil by the foulness of them ) doth effectually confute their own hypothesis ; and makes them not believe those actions to be necessary , for which they suffer so much in themselves because they knew they did them freely . or is it as fatal for man to believe himself free when he is not so , as it is for him to act when his choice is determined ? but what series of causes is there that doth so necessarily impose upon the common sense of all mankind ; it seems very strange , that man should have so little sense of his own interest to be still necessitated to the worst of actions , and yet torment himself with the thoughts that he did them freely . or is it only the freedom of action , and not of choice , that men have an experience of within themselves ? but surely , however men may subtilly dispute of the difference between these two , no man would ever believe himself to be free in what he does , unless he first thought himself to be so , in what he determines ? and if we suppose man to have as great a freedom of choice in all his evil actions ( which is the liberty we are now speaking of ) as any persons assert or contend for , we cannot suppose that he should have a greater experience of it , than now he hath . so that either it is impossible for man to know when his choice is free ; or if it may be known , the constant experience of all evil men in the world will testifie , that it is so now . is it possible for the most intemperate person to believe , when the most pleasing temptations to lust or gluttony are presented to him , that no consideration whatever could restrain his appetite , or keep him from the satisfaction of his bruitish inclinations ? will not the sudden , though groundless apprehension of poyson in the cup , make the drunkards heart to ake , and hand to tremble , and to let fall the supposed fatal mixture in the midst of all his jollity and excess ? how often have persons who have designed the greatest mischief to the lives and fortunes of others , when all opportunities have fallen out beyond their expectation for accomplishing their ends , through some sudden thoughts which have surprized them , almost in the very act , been diverted from their intended purposes ? did ever any yet imagine that the charms of beauty and allurements of lust were so irresistible , that if men knew before hand they should surely dye in the embraces of an adulterous bed , they could not yet withstand the temptations to it ? if then some considerations , which are quite of another nature from all the objects which are presented to him , may quite hinder the force and efficacy of them upon the mind of man ( as we see in iosephs resisting the importunate caresses of his mistress ) what reason can there be to imagine that man is a meer machine moved only as outward objects determine him ? and if the considerations of present fear and danger may divert men from the practice of evil actions , shall not the far more weighty considerations of eternity have at least an equal , if not a far greater power and efficacy upon mens minds , to keep them from everlasting misery ? is an immortal soul and the eternal happiness of it so mean a thing in our esteem and value , that we will not deny our selves those sensual pleasures for the sake of that which we would renounce for some present danger ? are the flames of another world such painted fires , that they deserve only to be laughed at , and not seriously considered by us ? fond man ! art thou only free to ruine and destroy thy self ? a strange fatality indeed , when nothing but what is mean and trivial shall determine thy choice ! when matters of the highest moment are therefore less regarded , because they are such . hast thou no other plea for thy self , but that thy sins were fatal ? thou hast no reason then to believe but that thy misery shall be so too . but if thou ownest a god and providence , assure thy self that justice and righteousness are not meer titles of his honour , but the real properties of his nature . and he who hath appointed the rewards and punishments of the great day , will then call the sinner to account , not only for all his other sins , but for offering to lay the imputation of them upon himself . for if the greatest abhorrency of mens evil ways , the rigour of his laws , the severity of his judgements , the exactness of his justice , the greatest care used to reclaim men from their sins , and the highest assurance , that he is not the cause of their ruine , may be any vindication of the holiness of god now , and his justice in the life to come ; we have the greatest reason to lay the blame of all our evil actions upon our selves , as to attribute the glory of all our good unto himself alone . . the frailty of humane nature : those who find themselves to be free enough to do their souls mischief , and yet continue still in the doing of it , find nothing more ready to plead for themselves , than the unhappiness of mans composition , and the degenerate state of the world . if god had designed ( they are ready to say ) that man should lead a life free from sin , why did he confine the soul of man to a body so apt to taint and pollute it ? but who art thou o man , that thus findest fault with thy maker ? was not his kindness the greater , in not only giving thee a soul capable of enjoying himself , but such an habitation for it here , which by the curiosity of its contrivance , the number and usefulness of its parts , might be a perpetual and domestick testimony of the wisdom of its maker ? was not such a conjunction of soul and body necessary for the exercise of that dominion which god designed man for , over the creatures endued only with sense and motion ? and if we suppose this life to be a state of tryal in order to a better , ( as in all reason we ought to do ) what can be imagined more proper to such a state , than to have the soul constantly employed in the government of those sensual inclinations which arise from the body ? in the doing of which , the proper exercise of that vertue consists , which is made the condition of future happiness . had it not been for such a composition , the difference could never have been seen between good and bad men ; i. e. between those who maintain the empire of reason , assisted by the motives of religion , over all the inferiour faculties , and such who dethrone their souls and make them slaves to every lust that will command them . and if men willingly subject themselves to that which they were born to rule , they have none to blame but themselves for it . neither is it any excuse at all , that this , through the degeneracy of mankind , is grown the common custom of the world ; unless that be in it self so great a tyrant , that there is no resisting the power of it . if god had commanded us to comply with all the customs of the world , and at the same time to be sober , righteous , and good , we must have lived in another age than we live in , to have excused these two commands from a palpable contradiction . but instead of this , he hath forewarned us of the danger of being led aside by the soft and easie compliances of the world ; and if we are sensible of our own infirmities , ( as we have all reason to be ) he hath offered us the assistance of his grace and of that spirit of his , a which is greater than the spirit that is the world. he hath promised us those weapons whereby we may withstand the torrent of wickedness in the world , with far greater success than the old b gauls were wont to do in the inundations of their country , whose custom was to be drowned with their arms in their hands . but it will be the greater folly in us to be so , because we have not only sufficient means of resistance , but we understand the danger before hand . if we once forsake the strict rules of religion and goodness , and are ready to yield our selves to whatever hath got retainers enough to set up for a custom , we may know where we begin , but we cannot where we shall make an end . for every fresh assault makes the breach wider , at which more enemies may come in still ; so that when we find our selves under their power , we are contented for our own ease to call them friends . which is the unhappy consequence of too easie yielding at first , till at last the greatest slavery to sin be accounted but good humour , and a gentile compliance with the fashions of the world . so that when men are perswaded , either through fear , or too great easiness to disuse that strict eye which they had before to their actions , it oft-times falls out with them , as it did with the souldier in the a roman history , who blinded his eye so long in the time of the civil wars , that when he would have used it again , he could not . and when custom hath by degrees taken away the sense of sin from their consciences , they grow as hard as ( b ) herodotus tells us the heads of the old egyptians were by the heat of the sun , that nothing would ever enter them . if men will with nebuchadnezzar herd with the beasts of the field , no wonder if their reason departs from them , and by degrees they grow as savage as the company they keep . so powerful a thing is custom to debauch mankind , and so easily do the greatest vices by degrees obtain admission into the souls of men , under pretence of being retainers to the common infirmities of humane nature . which is a phrase , through the power of self-flattery , and mens ignorance in the nature of moral actions , made to be of so large and comprehensive a sense that the most wilful violations of the laws of heaven , and such which the scripture tells us do exclude from the kingdom of it , do find ( rather than make ) friends enough to shelter themselves under the protection of them . but such a protection it is , which is neither allowed in the court of heaven , nor will ever secure the souls of men without a hearty and sincere repentance , from the arrest of divine justice ; which when it comes to call the world to an account of their actions will make no defalcations at all for the power of custom , or common practice of the world . . the impossibility of the command , or rather of obedience to it . when neither of the former pleas will effect their design , but notwithstanding the pretended necessity of humane actions , and the more than pretended common practice of the world , their consciences still fly in their faces , and rebuke them sharply for their sins , then in a mighty rage and fury they charge god himself with tyranny in laying impossible laws upon the sons of men . but if we either consider the nature of the command , or the promises which accompany it , or the large experience of the world to the contrary , we shall easily discover that this pretence is altogether as unreasonable as either of the foregoing . for what is it that god requires of men as the condition of their future happiness which in its own nature is judged impossible ? is it for men to a live soberly , righteously and godly in this world ? for that was the end of christian religion to perswade men to do so : but who thinks it impossible to avoid the occasions of intemperance , not to defraud , or injure his neighbours , or to pay that reverence and sincere devotion to god which we owe unto him ? is it to do as we would be done by ? yet that hath been judged by strangers to the christian religion a most exact measure of humane conversation ; is it to maintain an universal kindness and good will to men ? that indeed is the great excellency of our religion , that it so strictly requires it ; but if this be impossible , farewell all good nature in the world ; and i suppose few will own this charge , lest theirs be suspected . is it to be patient under sufferings , moderate in our desires , circumspect in our actions , contented in all conditions ? yet these are things which those have pretended to who never owned christianity , and therefore surely they never thought them impossible . is it to be charitable to the poor , compassionate to those in misery ? is it to be frequent in prayer , to love god above all things , to forgive our enemies as we hope god will forgive us , to believe the gospel , and be ready to suffer for the sake of christ ? there are very few among us but will say they do all these things already , and therefore surely they do not think them impossible . the like answer i might give to all the other precepts of the gospel till we come to the denying ungodliness and worldly lusts , and as to these too , if we charge men with them , they either deny their committing them , and then say they have kept the command ; or if they confess it , they promise amendment for the future ; but in neither respect can they be said to think the command impossible . thus we see their own mouths will condemn them when they charge god with laying impossible laws on mankind . but if we enquire further then into the judgements of those ( who it may be never concerned themselves so much about the precepts of christian religion , as to try whether they had any power to observe them or not ) ; nay , if we yield them more ( than , it may be , they are willing to enquire after , though they ought to do it ) viz. that without the assistance of divine grace , they can never do it : yet such is the unlimited nature of divine goodness and the exceeding riches of gods grace , that ( knowing the weakness and degeneracy of humane nature when he gave these commands to men ) he makes a large and free offer of assistance to all those who are so sensible of their own infirmity as to beg it of him . and can men then say the command is impossible when he hath promised an assistance suitable to the nature of the duty and the infirmities of men ? if it be acknowledged that some of the duties of christianity are very difficult to us now ; let us consider by what means he hath sweetned the performance of them . will not the proposal of so excellent a reward , make us swallow some more than ordinary hardships that we might enjoy it ? hath he not made use of the most obliging motives to perswade us to the practice of what he requires , by the infinite discovery of his own love , the death of his son , and the promise of his spirit ? and what then is wanting , but only setting our selves to the serious obedience of them , to make his commands not only not impossible , but easie to us ? but our grand fault is , we make impossibilities our selves where we find none , and then we complain of them : we are first resolved not to practise the commands , and then nothing more easie than to find fault with them : we first pass sentence , and then examine evidences ; first condemn , and then enquire into the merits of the cause . yet surely none of these things can be accounted impossible , which have been done by all those who have been sincere and hearty christians ; and god forbid we should think all guilty of hypocrisie , who have professed the christian religion from the beginning of it to this day . nay more than so , they have not only done them , but professed to have that joy and satisfaction of mind in the doing of them , which they would not exchange for all the pleasures and delights of the world . these were the men , who not only were patient , but rejoyced in sufferings ; who accounted it their honour and glory to endure any thing for the sake of so excellent a religion ; who were so assured of a future happiness by it , that they valued martyrdoms above crowns and scepters . but god be thanked , we may hope to come to heaven on easier terms than these , or else many others might never come thither , besides those who think to make this a pretence for their sin , that now when with encouragement and honour we may practise our religion , the commands of it are thought impossible by them . thus we have made good the general charge here implyed against wicked men , in that they are called fools , by examining the most plausible pretences they bring for themselves . i now come to the particular impeachment of their folly , because they make a mock at sin . and that i shall prove especially by two things : . because this argues the highest degree of wickedness . . because it betrays the greatest weakness of judgement and want of consideration . . because it argues the highest degree of wickedness . if to sin be folly , to make a mock at it is little short of madness . it is such a height of impiety , that few but those who are of very profligate consciences can attain to , without a long custom in sinning . for conscience is at first modest , and starts and boggles at the appearance of a great wickedness , till it be used to it and grown familiar with it . it is no such easie matter for a man to get the mastery of his conscience ; a great deal of force and violence must be used to ones self before he does it . the natural impressions of good and evil , the fears of a deity , and the apprehensions of a future state are such curbs and checks in a sinners way , that he must first sin himself beyond all feeling of these , before he can attain to the seat of the scorners . and we may justly wonder how any should ever come thither , when they must break through all that is ingenuous and modest , all that is vertuous and good , all that is tender and apprehensive in humane nature , before they can arrive at it . they must first deny a god , and despise an immortal soul , they must conquer their own reason , and cancel the law written in their hearts , they must hate all that is serious , and yet soberly believe themselves to be no better than the beasts that perish , before men can come to make a scoff at religion , and a mock at sin . and who now could ever imagine that in a nation professing christianity , among a people whose genius enclines them to civility and religion , yea among those who have the greatest advantages of behaviour and education , and who are to give the laws of civility to the rest of the nation , there should any be found who should deride religion , make sport with their own prosaneness , and make so light of nothing , as being damned ? i come not here to accuse any , and least of all those who shew so much regard of religion as to be present in the places devoted to sacred purposes ; but if there be any such here , whose consciences accuse themselves , for any degrees of so great impiety ; i beseech them by all that is dear and precious to them , by all that is sacred and serious , by the vows of their baptism , and their participation of the holy eucharist , by all the kindness of heaven which they either enjoy or hope for , by the death and sufferings of the son of god , that they would now consider how great folly and wickedness they betray in it , and what the dreadful consequence of it will be , if they do not timely repent of it . if it were a doubt ( as i hope it is not among any here ) whether the matters of religion be true or no , they are surely things which ought to be seriously thought and spoken of . it is certainly no jesting matter to affront a god of infinite majesty and power , ( and he judges every wilful sinner to do so ) nor can any one in his wits think it a thing not to be regarded , whether he be eternally happy or miserable . methinks then among persons of civility and honour , above all others , religion might at least be treated with the respect and reverence due to the concernments of it ; that it be not made the sport of entertainments , nor the common subject of plays and comedies . for is there nothing to trifle with , but god and his service ? is wit grown so schismatical and sacrilegious , that it can please it self with nothing but holy ground ? are prophaneness and wit grown such inseparable companions , that none shall be allowed to pretend to the one , but such as dare be highly guilty of the other ? far be it from those who have but the name of christians , either to do these things themselves , or to be pleased with them that do them : especially in such times as ours of late have been , when god hath used so many ways to make us serious if any thing would ever do it . if men had only slighted god and religion , and made a mock at sin , when they had grown wanton through the abundance of peace and plenty , and saw no severities of gods justice used upon such who did it ; yet the fault had been so great , as might have done enough to have interrupted their peace and destroyed that plenty , which made them out of the greatness of their pride and wantonness to kick against heaven : but to do it in despight of all gods judgements , to laugh in his face when his rod is upon our backs , when neither pestilence nor fire can make us more afraid of him , exceedingly aggravates the impiety , and makes it more unpardonable . when like the old a germans we dance among naked swords , when men shall defie and reproach heaven in the midst of a cities ruines , and over the graves of those whom the arrows of the almighty have heaped together , what can be thought of such but that nothing will make them serious , but eternal misery ? and are they so sure there is no such thing to be feared , that they never think of it , but when by their execrable oaths they call upon god to damn them , for fear he should not do it time enough for them ? thus while men abuse his patience , and provoke his justice , while they trample upon his kindness , and slight his severities , while they despise his laws and mock at the breaches of them , what can be added more to their impiety ? or what can be expected by such who are guilty of it , but that god should quickly discover their mighty folly by letting them see how much they have deceived themselves , since a god will not be mocked , but b because of these things the wrath of god will most certainly come upon the children of disobedience . which leads to the second thing wherein this folly is seen . . which is in the weakness of judgement and want of consideration , which this betrays in men . folly is the great unsteadiness of the mind in the thoughts of what is good and fitting to be done . it were happy for many in the world , if none should suffer in their reputation for want of wisdom , but such whom nature or some violent distemper have wholly deprived of the use of their reason and understandings : but wisdom does not lye in the rambling imaginations of mens minds ( for fools may think of the same things which wise men practice ) but in a due consideration and choice of things which are most agreeable to the end they design , supposing the end in the first place to be worthy a wise mans choice ; for i cannot yet see why the end may not be chosen as well as the means , when there are many stand in competition for our choice , and men first deliberate , and then determine which is the fittest to be pursued . but when the actions of men discover , that either they understand or regard not the most excellent end of their beings , or do those things which directly cross and thwart their own designs , or else pursue those which are mean and ignoble in themselves , we need not any further evidence of their folly , than these things discover . now that those who make a mock at sin are guilty of all these , will appear ; if we consider whom they provoke by doing so , whom they most injure , and upon what reasonable consideration they are moved to what they do . . whom they provoke by their making a mock at sin ; supposing that there is a governour of the world , who hath established laws for us to be guided by , we may easily understand , whose honour and authority is reflected on , when the violations of his laws are made nothing of . for surely if they had a just esteem of his power and soveraignty , they never durst make so bold with him , as all those do who not only commit sin themselves , but laugh at the scrupulosity of those who dare not . when dionysius changed apollos cloak , and took off the golden beard of aesculapius , with those solemn jeers of the unsuitableness of the one to the son of a beardless father ; and the much greater conveniency of a cheaper garment to the other ; it was a sign he stood not much in awe of the severity of their looks , nor had any dread at all of the greatness of their power . but although there be so infinite a disproportion between the artificial deities of the heathens , and the majesty of him who made and governs the whole world ; yet as little reverence to his power and authority is shewed by all such who dare affront him with such a mighty confidence , and bid the greatest defiance to his laws by scoffing at them . what is there , the soveraigns and princes of the earth do more justly resent , and express the highest indignation against , than to have their laws despised , their persons affronted , and their authority contemned ? and can we then imagine , that a god of infinite power and majesty , the honour of whose laws is as dear to him as his own is , should sit still unconcerned , when so many indignities are continually offered them , and never take any notice at all of them ? it is true , his patience is not to be measured by our fretful and pevish natures , ( and it is happy for us all that it is not ) he knows the sinner can never escape his power , and therefore bears the longer with him : but yet his lenity is always joyned with his wisdom and justice , and the time is coming when patience it self shall be no more . is it not then the highest madness and folly to provoke one whose power is infinitely greater than our own is , and from the severity of whose wrath we cannot secure our selves one minute of an hour ? how knowest thou , o vain man , but that in the midst of all thy mirth and jollity , while thou art boasting of thy sins , and thinkest thou canst never fill up fast enough the measure of thy iniquities , a sudden fit of an apoplexy , or the breaking of an aposteme , or any of the innumerable instruments of death , may dispatch thee hence , and consign thee into the hands of divine justice ? and wherewithall then wilt thou be able to dispute with god ? wilt thou then charge his providence with fol●y , and his laws with unreasonableness ? when his greatness shall affright thee , his majesty astonish thee , his power disarm thee , and his iustice pro ceed against thee : when notwithstanding all thy bravado's here , thy own conscience shall be not only thy accuser and witness , but thy judge and executioner too : when it shall revenge it self upon thee for all the rapes and violences thou hast committed upon it here : when horror and confusion shall be thy portion , and the unspeakable anguish of a racked and tormented mind shall too late convince thee of thy folly in making a mock at that which stings with an everlasting venom . art thou then resolved to put all these things to the adventure , and live as securely as if the terrours of the almighty were but the dreams of men awake , or the fancies of weak and distempered brains ? but i had rather believe that in the heat and fury of thy lusts thou wouldst seem to others to think so , than thou either doest or canst perswade thy self to such unreasonable folly . is it not then far better to consult the tranquillity of thy mind here , and the eternal happiness of it hereafter , by a serious repentance and speedy amendment of thy life , than to expose thy self for the sake of thy sensual pleasures to the sury of that god whose justice is infinite , and power irresistible ? shall not the apprehension of his excellency make thee now asraid of him ? never then make any mock at sin more , unless thou art able to contend with the almighty , or to dwell with everlasting burnings . . the folly of it is seen in considering whom the injury redounds to by mens making themselves so pleasant with their sins . do they think by their rude attempts to dethrone the majesty of heaven , or by standing at the greatest defiance , to make him willing to come to terms of composition with them ? do they hope to slip beyond the bounds of his power , by salling into nothing when they die , or to sue out prohibitions in the court of heaven , to hinder the effects of iustice there ? do they design to out-wit infinite wisdom , or to find such flaws in gods government of the world , that he shall be contented to let them go unpunished ? all which imaginations are alike vain and foolish , and only shew how easily wickedness baffles the reason of mankind , and makes them rather hope or wish for the most impossible things than believe they shall ever be punished for their impieties . if the apostate spirits can by reason of their present restraint and expectation of future punishments be as pleasant in beholding the follies of men as they are malicious to suggest them , it may be one of the greatest diversions of their misery , to see how active and witty men are in contriving their own ruine . to see with what greediness they catch at every bait that is offered them , and when they are swallowing the most deadly poyson , what arts they use to perswade themselves that it is a healthful potion . no doubt , nothing can more gratifie them than to see men sport themselves into their own destruction , and go down so pleasantly to hell : when eternal flames become their first awakeners , and then men begin to be wise , when it is too late to be so : when nothing but insupportable torments can convince them that god was in earnest with them , that he would not always bear the affronts of evil men , and that those who derided the miseries of another life , shall have leisure enough to repent their folly , when their repentance shall only increase their sorrow without hopes of pardon by it . . but if there were any present selicity , or any considerable advantage to be gained by this mocking at sin , and undervaluing religion , there would seem to be some kind of pretence , though nothing of true reason for it . yet that which heightens this folly to the highest degree in the last place is , that there can be no imaginable consideration thought on which might look like a plausible temptation to it . the covetous man , when he hath defrauded his neighbour , and used all kinds of arts to compass an estate , hath the fulness of his baggs to answer for him , and whatever they may do in another world , he is sure they will do much in this . the voluptuous man hath the strong propensities of his nature , the force of temptation which lies in the charms of beauty , to excuse his unlawful pleasures by . the ambitious man , hath the greatness of his mind , the advantage of authority , the examples of those who have been great before him , and the envy of those who condemn him , to plead for the heights he aims at . but what is it which the person who despises religion , and laughs at every thing that is serious , proposes to himself as the reason of what he does ? but alas ! this were to suppose him to be much more serious than he is , if he did propound any thing to himself as the ground of his actions . but it may be a great kindness to others , though none to himself ; i cannot imagine any , unless it may be , to make them thankful they are not arrived to that height of folly ; or out of perfect good nature , lest they should take him to be wiser than he is . the psalmists fool despises him as much as he does religion : for he only saith it in his heart , there is no god ; but this though he dares not think there is none , yet shews him not near so much outward respect and reverence as the other does . even the atheist himself thinks him a fool , and the greatest of all other , who believes a god , and yet affronts him and trifles with him . and although the atheists folly be unaccountable , in resisting the clearest evidence of reason , yet so far he is to be commended for what he says , that if there be such a thing as religion , men ought to be serious in it . so that of all hands the scoffer at religion is looked on as one forsaken of that little reason , which might serve to uphold a slender reputation of being above the beasts that perish : nay , therein his condition is worse than theirs , that as they understand not religion , they shall never be punished for despising it : which such a person can never secure himself from , considering the power , the justice , the severity of that god , whom he hath so highly provoked . god grant , that the apprehension of this danger may make us so serious in the profession and practice of our religion , that we may not by slighting that , and mocking at sin , provoke him to laugh at our calamities , and mock when our fear comes ; but that by beholding the sincerity of our repentance , and the heartiness of our devotion to him , he may turn his anger away from us , and rejoyce over us to do us good . sermon iii. preached at white-hall . luke vii . xxxv . but wisdom is justified of all her children . of all the circumstances of our blessed saviours appearance and preaching in the world , there is none which , to our first view and apprehension of things , seems more strange and unaccountable , than that those persons who were then thought of all others to be most conversant in the law and the prophets , should be the most obstinate opposers of him . for since he came to fulfil all the prophesies which had gone before concerning him , and was himself the great prophet foretold by all the rest , none might in humane probability have been judged more likely to have received and honoured him , than those to whom the judgement of those things did peculiarly belong ; and who were as much concerned in the truth of them as any else could be . thus indeed it might have been reasonably expected ; and doubtless it had been so , if interest and prejudice had not had a far more absolute power and dominion over them , than they had over the rest of the people . if miracles , and prophesies , if reason and religion ; nay , if the interest of another world could have prevailed over the interest of this among them ; the iewish sanhedrin might have been some of the first converts to christianity , the scribes and pharisees had been all proselytes to christ , and the temple at ierusalem had been the first christian church . but to let us see with what a jealous eye power and interest looks on every thing that seems to offer at any disturbance of it , how much greater sway partiality and prejudice hath upon the minds of men than true reason and religion ; and how hard a matter it is to convince those who have no mind to be convinced ; we find none more furious in their opposition to the person of christ , none more obstinate in their infidelity as to his doctrine , than those who were at that time in the greatest reputation among them for their authority , wisdom , and knowledge . these are they , whom our saviour , as often as he meets with , either checks for their ignorance , or rebukes for their pride , or denounces woes against for their malice and hypocrisie : these are they who instead of believing in christ persecute him ; instead of following him seek to destroy him : and that they might the better compass it , they reproach and defame him , as if he had been really as bad as themselves . and although the people might not presently believe what they said concerning him , yet that they might at least be kept in suspence by it , they endeavour to fasten the blackest calumnies upon him ; and suit them with all imaginable arts to the tempers of those they had to deal with . if any appeared zealous for the present peace and prosperity of the nation ; and for paying the duty and obedience they owed to the roman power , which then governed them : to them he is represented as a factious and seditious person , as an enemy to caesar , as one that intended to set up a kingdom of his own , though to the ruine of his country : that it was nothing but ambition and vain glory , which made him gather disciples , and preach to multitudes ; that none could foretel what the dangerous consequences of such new doctrines might be , if not timely suppressed , and the author of them severely punished . thus to the prudent and cautious , reason of state is pretended as the ground of their enmity to christ. but to those who were impatient of the roman yoke , and watched for any opportunity to cast it off ; they suggest the mighty improbabilities of ever obtaining any deliverance by a person so mean and inconsiderable as our saviour appeared among them : and that surely god who delivered their forefathers of old from a bondage not greater than theirs , by a mighty hand and out-stretched arm , did never intend the redemption of his people by one of obscure parentage , mean education , and of no interest in the wor●d . to the great men , they need no more than bid them , behold the train of his followers , who being generally poor , the more numerous they were , the more mouths they might see open , and ready to devour the estates of those who were above them . the priests and levites they bid consider what would become of them all , if the law of moses was abrogated , by which their interest was upheld ; for if the temple fell , it was impossible for them to stand . but the grand difficulty was among the people , who began to be possessed with so high an opinion of him by the greatness of his miracles , the excellency of his doctrine , and the innocency of his conversation , that unless they could insinuate into their minds some effectual prejudices against these , all their other attempts were like to be vain and unsuccessful . if therefore they meet with any who were surprized by his miracles , as well as ravished by his doctrine ; when they saw him raise the dead , restore sight to the blind , cure the deaf and the lame , and cast out devils out of possessed persons , they tell them presently that these were the common arts of impostors , and the practice of those who go about to deceive the people ; that such things were easily done by the power of magick , and assistance of the evil spirits . if any were admirers of the pharisaical rigours and austerities ( as the people generally were ) when mens religion was measured by the sowerness of their countenances , the length of their prayers , and the distance they kept from other persons ; these they bid especially beware of our saviours doctrine ; for he condemned all zeal and devotion , all mortification and strictness of life , under the pretence of pharisaical hypocrisie ; that he sunk all religion into short prayers and dull morality ; that his conversation was not among the persons of any reputation for piety , but among publicans and sinners ; that nothing extraordinary appeared in his life ; that his actions were like other mens , and his company none of the best , and his behaviour among them with too great a freedom for a person who pretended to so high a degree of holiness . thus we see the most perfect innocency could not escape the venom of malicious tongues ; but the less it enter'd , the more they were enraged , and made up what wanted in the truth of their calumnies , by their diligence in spreading them . as though their mouths indeed had ●●en open sepulchres by the noysom vapours which came out of them ; and we may well think no less a poyson than that of asp ; could be under their lips , which so secretly and yet so mischievously conveyed it self into the hearts of the people . the only advantage which malice hath against the greatest virtue , is , that the greater it is , the less it takes notice of all the petty arts which are used against it ; and will not bring its own innocency so much into suspicion as to make any long apologies for it self . for , to a noble and generous spirit , assaulted rather by noyse and clamour , than any solid reason or force of argument , neglect and disdain are the most proper weapons of defence : for where malice is only impertinent and troublesom , a punctual answer seems next to a confession . but although innocency needs no defence as to it self , yet it is necessary for all the advantages it hath of doing good to mankind , that it appear to be what it really is ; which cannot be done , unless its reputation be cleared from the malicious aspersions which are cast upon it . and from hence it was that our blessed saviour , though he thought it not worth the while to use the same diligence in the vindication of himself , which his enemies did in the defamation of him ; yet when he saw it necessary in order to the reception of his doctrine among the more ingenuous and tractable part of his auditors , he sometimes by the quickness of his replies , sometimes by the suddenness and sharpness of his questions , and sometimes by the plain force of argument and reason , baffles his adversaries , so that though they were resolved not to be convinced , they thought it best for the time to be quiet . this was to let them see how easie it was for him to throw off their reproaches as fast as their malice could invent them ; and that it was as impossible for them by such weak attempts to obscure the reputation of his innocency , as for the spots which astonomers descern near the body of the sun , ever to eclipse the light of it . so that all those thinner mists which envy and detraction raised at his first appearance , and those grosser vapours which arose from their open enmity when he came to a greater height , did but add a brighter lustre to his glory , when it was seen that notwithstanding all the machinations of his enemies , his innocency brake forth like the light , which shineth more and more to the perfect day . but it pleased god , for the tryal of mens minds so to order the matters of our religion , that as they are never so clear , but men of obstinate and perverse spirits will find something to cavil at ; so they were never so dark and obscure in the most difficult circumstances of them , but men of unprejudiced and ingenuous minds might find enough to satisfie themselves about them . which is the main scope of our saviour in the words of the text , ( and shall be of our present discourse upon them ) but wisdom is justified of all her children . where without any further explication , by wisdom we understand the method which god useth in order to the salvation of mankind ; by the children of wisdom , all those who were willing to attain the end by the means which god affordeth , and by justifying , not only the bare approving it , but the declaring of that approbation to the world by a just vindication of it from the cavils and exceptions of men . although the words are capable of various senses , yet this is the most natural , and agreeable to the scope of what goes before . for there our saviour speaks of the different ways wherein iohn baptist and himself appeared among the iews , in order to the same end , v. . for iohn baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine , and ye say , he hath a devil . a very severe devil surely , and one of the strictest orders among them , that was so far from being cast out by fasting and prayer , that these were his continual imployment ! but what could we have sooner thought than that those persons who made the devil the author of so much mortification and severity of live , should presently have entertained religion in a more free and pleasing humour ; but this would not taken either , for the son of man comes eating and drinking ; i. e. was remarkable for none of those rigours and austerities which they condemned in iohn , and applauded in the pharisees ; and then presently they censure him , as a gluttonous man , and a wine-bibber , a friend of publicans and sinners , v. . i. e. the utmost excess that any course of life was capable of they presently apply to those who had no other design in all their actions , than to recommend true piety and goodness to them . so impossible it was by any means which the wisdom of heaven thought fit to use , to perswade them into any good opinion of the persons who brought the glad tidings of salvation to them : and therefore our saviour , when he sees how refractory and perverse they were , in interpreting every thing to the worse , and sensuring the ways which infinite wisdom thought fittest to reclaim them by , he tells them that it was nothing but malice and obstinacy which was the cause of it ; but if they were men of teachable spirits ( who by an usual hebraism are called the children of wisdom ) they would see reason enough to admire , approve and justifie all the methods of divine providence for the good of mankind . for wisdom is justified of all her children . that which i mainly design to speak to from hence is , that although the wisest contrivances of heaven for the good of mankind are lyable to the unjust cavils and exceptions of unreasonable men , yet there is enough to satisfie any teachable and ingenuous minds concerning the wisdom of them . before i come more particularly to examine those which concern our present subject , viz. the life and appearance of our lord and saviour , it will take very much off from the force of them , if we consider , that thus it hath always been , and supposing humane nature to be as it is , it is scarce conceivable that it should be otherwise . not that it is necessary or reasonable it should be so at all , any more than it is necessary that men should act foolishly or inconsiderately ; but as long as we must never expect to see all men either wise or pious , either to have a true judgement of things , or a love of religion ; so long we shall always find there will be some , who will be quarrelling with religion when they have no mind to practise it . i speak not now of those who make a meer jest and scoff at religion ( of which our age hath so many instances ) but of a sort of men who are of a degree above the other , though far enough short of any true and solid wisdom ; who yet are the more to be considered , because they seem to make a slender offer at reason in what they say . some pretend they are not only unsatisfied with the particular ways of instituted religion , any further than they are subservient to their present interest ( which is the only god they worship ) but to make all sure , the foundations even of natural religion it self cannot escape their cavils and exceptions . they have found out an index expurgatorius for those impressions of a deity which are in the hearts of men ; and use their utmost arts to obscure , since they cannot extinguish those lively characters of the power , wisdom and goodness of god , which are every where to be seen in the large volume of the creation . religion is no more to them but an unaccountable fear ; and the very notion of a spiritual substance ( even of that without which we could never know what a contradiction meant ) is said to imply one . but if for quietness sake , and it may be to content their own minds as well as the world , they are willing to admit of a deity , ( which is a mighty concession from those who have so much cause to be afraid of him ) then to ease their minds of such troublesom companions as their fears are , they seek by all means to dispossess him of his government of the world , by denying his providence , and care of humane affairs . they are contented he should be called an excellent being , that should do nothing , and therefore signifie nothing in the world ; or rather , then he might be styled an almighty sardanapalus , that is so fond of ease and pleasure , that the least thought of business would quite spoyl his happiness . or if the activity of their own spirits may make them think that such an excellent being may sometimes draw the curtains and look abroad into the world , then every advantage which another hath got above them , and every cross accident which befalls themselves ( which by the power of self-flattery most men have learnt to call the prosperity of the wicked , and the sufferings of good men ) serve them for mighty charges against the justice of divine providence . thus either god shall not govern the world at all , or if he do , it must be upon such terms as they please and approve of , or else they will erect an high court of justice upon him , and condemn the sovereign of the world , because he could not please his discontented subjects . and as if he were indeed arraigned at such a bar , every weak , and peevish exception shall be cryed up for evidence ; when the fullest and clearest vindications of him shall be scorned and contemned . but this doth not in the least argue the obnoxiousness of him who is so accused , but the great injustice of those who dare pass sentence ; where it is neither in their power to understand the reason of his actions , nor if it were , to call him in question for his proceedings with men . but so great is the pride and arrogance of humane nature , that it loves to be condemning what it cannot comprehend ; and there needs be no greater reason given concerning the many disputes in the world about divine providence , than that god is wise , and we are not , but would fain seem to be so . while men are in the dark they will be always quarrelling ; and those who contend the most , do it that they might seem to others to see , when they know themselves they do not . nay , there is nothing so plain and evident , but the reason of some men is more apt to be imposed upon in it , than their senses are ; as it appeared in him who could not otherwise confute the philosophers argument against motion , but by moving before him . so that we see the most certain things in the world are lyable to the cavils of men who imploy their wits to do it ; and certainly those ought not to stagger mens faith in matters of the highest nature and consequence , which would not at all move them in other things . but at last it is acknowledged by the men who love to be called the men of wit in this age of ours , that there is a god and providence , a future state , and the differences of good and evil , but the christian religion they will see no further reason to embrace than as it is the religion of the state they live in . but if we demand what mighty reasons they are able to bring forth against a religion so holy and innocent in its design , so agreeable to the nature of god and man , so well contrived for the advantages of this and another life , so fully attested to come from god by the miracles wrought in confirmation of it , by the death of the son of god , and of such multitudes of martyrs , so certainly conveyed to us , by the unquestionable tradition of all ages since the first delivery of it ; the utmost they can pretend against it is , that it is built upon such an appearance of the son of god which was too mean and contemptible , that the doctrine of it is inconsistent with the civil interests of men , and the design ineffectual for the reformation of the world. for the removal therefore of these cavils against our religion , i shall shew , . that there were no circumstances in our saviours appearance or course of life , which were unbecoming the son of god , and the design he came upon . . that the doctrine delivered by him is so far from being contrary to the civil interests of the world , that it tends highly to the preservation of them . that the design he came upon was very agreeable to the infinite wisdom of god , and most effectual for the reformation of mankind . for clearing the first of these , i shall consider , ( . ) the manner of our saviours appearance . ( . ) the course of his life ; and what it was which his enemies did most object against him . . the manner of our saviours appearance ; which hath been always the great offence to the admirers of the pomp and greatness of the world. for when they heard of the son of god coming down from heaven , and making his progress into this lower world , they could imagine nothing less , than that an innumerable company of angels must have been dispatched before , to have prepared a place for his reception ; that all the soveraigns and princes of the world must have been summoned to give their attendance and pay their homage to him : that their scepters must have been immediately laid at his feet , and all the kingdoms of the earth been united into one universal monarchy under the empire of the son of god : that the heavens should bow down at his presence to shew their obeysance to him , the earth tremble and shake for fear at the near approaches of his majesty ; that all the clouds should clap together in one universal thunder , to welcome his appearance , and tell the inhabitants of the world what cause they had to fear him whom the powers of the heavens obey : that the sea should run out of its wonted course with amazement and horror ; and if it were possible , hide it self in the hollow places of the earth : that the mountains should shrink in their heads , to fill up the vast places of the deep ; so that all that should be fulfilled in a literal sense , which was foretold of the coming of the messias , a that every valley should be filled , and every mountain and hill brought low ; the crooked made straight , and the rough ways smooth , and all flesh see the salvation of god. yea , that the sun for a time should be darkned , and the moon withdraw her light , to let the nations of the earth understand that a glory infinitely greater than theirs did now appear to the world. in a word , they could not imagine the son of god could be born without the pangs and throws of the whole creation ; that it was as impossible for him to appear , as for the sun in the firmament to disappear , without the notice of the whole world. but when instead of all his pomp and grandeur he comes incognito into the world , instead of giving notice of his appearance to the potentates of the earth , he is only discovered to a few silly shepherds and three wise men of the east ; instead of choosing either rome or hierusalem for the place of his nativity , he is born at bethleem a mean and obscure village : instead of the glorious and magnificent palaces of the east or west , which were at that time so famous ; he is brought forth in a stable , where the manger was his cradle , and his mother the only attendant about him : who was her self none of the great persons of the court , nor of any fame in the country ; but was only rich in her genealogy , and honourable in her pedigree . and according to the obscurity of his birth was his education too : his youth was not spent in the imperial court at rome , nor in the schools of philosophers at athens , nor at the feet of the great rabbies at ierusalem : but at nazareth , a place of mean esteem among the iews , where he was remarkable for nothing so much as the vertues proper to his age , modesty , humility and obedience . all which he exercises to so high a degree , that his greatest kindred and acquaintance were mightily surprized when at . years of age , he began to discover himself by the miracles which he wrought , and the authority which he spake with . and although the rayes of his divinity began to break forth through the clouds he had hitherto disguised himself in , yet he persisted still in the same course of humility and self-denyal ; taking care of others to the neglect of himself ; feeding others by a miracle , and fasting himself , to one : shewing his power in working miraculous cures , and his humility in concealing them : conversing with the meanest of the people , and choosing such for his apostles , who brought nothing to recommend them but innocency and simplicity . who by their heats and ignorance were continual exercises of his patience in bearing with them , and of his care and tenderness in instructing them . and after a life thus led with such unparallel'd humility , when he could add nothing more to it by his actions , he doth it by his sufferings ; and compleats the sad tragedy of his life by a most shameful and ignominious death . this is the short and true account of all those things which the admirers of the greatness of this world think mean and contemptible in our saviours appearance here on earth . but we are now to consider whether so great humility were not not more agreeable with the design of his coming into the world , than all that pomp and state would have been which the son of god might have more easily commanded than we can imagine . he came not upon so mean an errand , as to dazle the eyes of mankind with the brightness of his glory , to amaze them by the terribleness of his majesty , much less to make a shew of the riches and gallantry of the world to them : but he came upon far more noble and excellent designs , to bring life and immortality to light , to give men the highest assurance of an eternal happiness and misery in the world to come , and the most certain directions for obtaining the one , and avoiding the other : and in order to that , nothing was judged more necessary by him , than to bring the vanities of this world out of that credit and reputation they had gained among foolish men . which he could never have done , if he had declaimed never so much against the vanity of worldly greatness , riches and honours , if in the mean time himself had lived in the greatest splendour and bravery . for the enjoyning then the contempt of this world to his disciples in hopes of a better , would have looked like the commendation of the excellency of fasting at a full meal , and of the conveniencies of poverty by one who makes the greatest hast to be rich . that he might not therefore seem to offer so great a contradiction to his doctrine by his own example ; he makes choice of a life so remote from all suspicion of designs upon this world , that though the foxes had holes , and the birds of the air had nests , yet the son of man , who was the lord and heir of all things , had not whereon to lay his head . and as he shewed by his life how little he valued the great things of the world , so he discovered by his death how little he feared the evil things of it : all which he did with a purpose and intention to rectifie the great mistakes of men as to these things : that they might no longer venture an eternal happiness for the splendid and glorious vanities of this present life ; nor expose themselves to the utmost miseries of another world , to avoid the frowns of this . from hence proceeded that generous contempt of the world , which not only our saviour himself , but all his true disciples of the first ages of christianity were so remarkable for ; to let others see they had greater things in their eye than any here , the hopes of which they would not part with for all that this world thinks great or desirable . so that considering the great danger most men are in , by too passionate a love of the●e things , and that universal and infinite kindness which our saviour had to the souls of men ; there was nothing he could discover it more in as to his appearance in the world , than by putting such an affront upon the greatness and honour of it , as he did by so open a neglect of it in his life , and despising it in his death and sufferings . and who now upon any pretence of reason dare entertain the meaner apprehensions of our blessed saviour , because he appeared without the pomp and greatness of the world , when the reason of his doing so was , that by his own humility and self-denyal he might shew us the way to an eternal happiness ? which he well knew how very hard it would be for men to attain to , who measure things not according to their inward worth and excellency , but the splendour and appearance which they make to the world : who think nothing great but what makes them gazed upon ; nothing desireable but what makes them flattered . but if they could be once perswaded how incomparably valuable the glories of the life to come are above all the gayeties and shews of this ; they would think no condition mean or contemptible , which led to so great an end ; none happy or honourable which must so soon end in the grave , or be changed to eternal misery . and that we might entertain such thoughts as these are , not as the melancholy effects of discontent and disappointments , but as the serious result of our most deliberate enquiry into the value of things , was the design of our saviour in the humility of his appearance , and of that excellent doctrine which he recommended to the world by it . were i to argue the case with philosophers , i might then at large shew from the free acknowledgements of the best and most experienced of them , that nothing becomes so much one who designs to recommend vertue to the world , as a real and hearty contempt of all the pomp of it , and that the meanest condition proceeding from such a principle is truly and in it self more honourable , than living in the greatest splendour imaginable . were i to deal with the iews , i might then prove , that as the prophecies concerning the messias speak of great and wonderful effects of his coming , so that they should be accomplished in a way of suffering and humility . but since i speak to christians , and and therefore to those who are perswaded of the great kindness and love of our saviour in coming into the world , to reform it , and that by convincing men of the truth and excellency of a future state , no more need be said to vindicate the appearance of him from that meanness and contempt , which the pride and ambition of vain men is apt to cast upon it . . but not only our saviours manner of appearance , but the manner of his conversation gave great offence to his enemies , viz. that it was too free and familiar among persons who had the meanest reputation , the publicans and sinners ; and in the mean time declaimed against the strictest observers of the greatest rigours and austerities of life . and this no doubt was one great cause of the mortal hatred of the pharisees against him , though least pretended , that even thereby they might make good that charge of hypocrisie which our saviour so often draws up against them . and no wonder , if such severe rebukes did highly provoke them , since they found this so gainful and withall so easie a trade among the people , when with a demure look and a sowre countenance they could cheat and defraud their brethren ; and under a specious shew of devotion could break their fasts by devouring widows houses , and end their long prayers to god with acts of the highest injustice to their neighbours . as though all that while , they had been only begging leave of god to do all the mischief they could to their brethren . it is true , such as these were , our saviour upon all occasions speaks against with the greatest sharpness , as being the most dangerous enemies to true religion : and that which made men whose passion was too strong for their reason abhor the very name of religion , when such baseness was practised under the profession of it . when they saw men offer to compound with heaven for all their injustice and oppression , with not a twentieth part of what god challenges as his due ; they either thought religion to be a meer device of men , or that these mens hypocrisie ought to be discovered to the world. and therefore our blessed saviour , who came with a design to retrieve a true spirit of religion among men , finds it first of all necessary to unmask those notorious hypocrites , that their deformities being discovered , their ways as well as their persons might be the better understood and avoided . and when he saw by the mighty opinion they had of themselves , and their uncharitableness towards all others , how little good was to be done upon them , he seldom vouchsafes them his presence ; but rather converses with those who being more openly wicked were more easily convinced of their wickedness , and perswaded to reform . for which end alone it was that he so freely conversed with them , to let them see there were none so bad , but his kindness was so great to them , that he was willing to do them all the good he could : and therefore this could be no more just a reproach to christ , that he kept company sometimes with these , than it is to a chyrurgion to visit hospitals , or to a physician to converse with the sick . . but when they saw that his greatness did appear in another way , by the authority of his doctrine , and the power of his miracles , then these wise and subtle men apprehend a further reach and design in all his actions : viz. that his low condition was a piece of popularity , and a meer disguise to ensnare the people , the better to make them in love with his doctrine , and so by degrees to season them with principles of rebellion and disobedience : hence came all the clamours of his being an enemy to caesar , and calling himself , the king of the iews , and of his design to erect a kingdom of his own , all which they interpret in the most malicious though most unreasonable sense . for nothing is so politick as malice and ill will is ; for that finds designs in every thing ; and the more contrary they are to all the protestations of the persons concerned , the deeper that suggests presently they are laid , and that there is the more cause to be afraid of them . thus it was in our blessed saviours case ; it was not the greatest care used by him to shew his obedience to the authority he lived under , it was not his most solemn disavowing having any thing to do with their civil interests , not the severe checks he gave his own disciples for any ambitious thoughts among them , not the recommending the doctrine of obedience to them , nor the rebuke he gave one of his most forward disciples for offering to draw his sword in the rescue of himself , could abate the fury and rage of his enemies , but at last they condemn the greatest teacher of the duty of obedience as a traytor , and the most unparallel'd example of innocency as a malesactor . but though there could be nothing objected against the life and actions of our blessed saviour , as tending to sedition and disturbance of the civil peace , yet that , these men ( who were inspired by malice , and prophesied according to their own interest ) would say , was because he was taken away in time , before his designs could be ripe for action , but if his doctrine tended that way , it was enough to justifie their proceedings against him . so then , it was not what he did , but what he might have done : not treason but convenience which made them take away the life of the most innocent person : but if there had been any taint in his doctrine that way , there had been reason enough in such an age of faction and sedition to have used the utmost care to prevent the spreading it . but so far is this from the least ground of probability that it is not possible to imagine a religion which aims less at the present particular interests of the embracers of it , and more at the publick interests of princes than christianity doth , as it was both preached and practised by our saviour and his apostles . and here we have cause to lament the unhappy fate of religion when it falls under the censure of such who think themselves the masters of all the little arts whereby this world is governed . if it teaches the duty of subjects , and the authority of princes , if it requires obedience to laws , and makes mens happiness or misery in another life in any measure to depend upon it ; then religion is suspected to be a meer trick of state , and an invention to keep the world in awe , whereby men might the better be moulded into societies , and preserved in them . but if it appear to inforce any thing indispensably on the consciences of men , though humane laws require the contrary ; if they must not forswear their religion , and deny him whom they hope to be saved by , when the magistrate calls them to it , then such half-witted men think that religion is nothing but a pretence to rebellion , and conscience only an obstinate plea for disobedience . but this is to take it for granted that there is no such thing as religion in the world ; for if there be , there must be some inviolable rights of divine soveraignty acknowledged , which must not vary according to the diversity of the edicts and laws of men . but supposing the profession and practice of the christian religion to be allowed inviolable , there was never any religion , nay , never any inventions of the greatest politicians , which might compare with that for the preservation of civil societies . for this in plain and express words tells all the owners of it , that they must live in subjection and obedience ; a not only for wrath , but for conscience sake ; that they who do resist receive unto themselves damnation , and that because whosoever resisteth the power , resisteth the ordinance of god. than which it is impossible to conceive arguments of greater force to keep men in obedience to authority ; for he that only obeys because it is his interest to do so , will have the same reason to disobey when there is an apprehension that may make more for his advantage . but when the reason of obedience is derived from the concernments of another life , no hopes of interest in this world can be thought to ballance the loss which may come by such a breach of duty in that to come . so that no persons do so dangerously undermine the foundations of civil government , as those who magnifie that to the contempt of religion ; none so effectually secure them as those who give to god the things that are gods , and by doing so , are obliged to give to caesar the things that are caesars . this was the doctrine of christianity as it was delivered by the first author of it ; and the practice was agreeable , as long as christianity preserved its primitive honour in the world . for , so far were men then from making their zeal for religion a pretence to rebellion , that though christianity were directly contrary to the religions then in vogue in the world , yet they knew of no other way of promoting it , but by patience , humility , meekness , prayers for their persecutors , and tears when they saw them obstinate . so far were they then from somenting suspicions and jealousies concerning the princes and governours they lived under , that though they were generally known to be some of the worst of men as well as of princes , yet they charge all christians in the strictest manner , as they loved their religion and the honour of it , as they valued their souls and the salvation of them , that they should be subject to them . so far were they then from giving the least encouragement to the usurpations of the rights of princes unde● the pretence of any power given to a head of the church : that there is no way for any to think they meant it , unless we suppose the apostles such mighty politicians , that it is because they say nothing at all of it ; but on the contrary , bid every soul be subject to the higher powers ; though an apostle , evangelist , prophet , whatever he be , as the fathers interpret it . yea so constant and uniform was the doctrine and practice of obedience in all the first and purest ages of the christian church , that no one instance can be produced of any usurpation of the rights of princes under the pretence of any title from christ , or any disobedience to their authority , under the pretence of promoting christianity , through all those times wherein christianity the most flourished , or the christians were the most persecuted . and happy had it been for us in these last ages of the world , if we had been christians on the same terms which they were in the primitive times ; then there had been no such scandals raised by the degeneracy of men upon the most excellent and peaceable religion in the world , as though that were unquiet and troublesom , because so many have been so who have made shew of it . but let their pretences be never so great to infallibility on one side , and to the spirit on the other , so far as men encourage faction and disobedience , so far they have not the spirit of christ and christianity , and therefore are none of his . for he shewed his great wisdom in contriving such a method of saving mens souls in another world , as tended most to the preservation of the peace and quietness of this ; and though this wisdom may be evil spoken of by men of restless and unpeaceable minds , yet i will be still justified by all who have heartily embraced the wisdom which is from above , who are pure and peaceable as that wisdom is , and such , and only such are the children of it . . i come to shew , that the design of christs appearance was very agreeable to the infinite wisdom of god ; and that the means were very suitable and effectual for carrying on of that design for the reformation of mankind . . that the design it self was very agreeable to the infinite wisdom of god. what could we imagine more becoming the wisdom of god , than to contrive a way for the recovery of lapsed and degenerate mankind ? who more fit to employ upon such a message as this , than the son of god ? for his coming gives the greatest assurance to the minds of men , that god was serious in the management of this design , than which nothing could be of greater importance in order to the success of it . and how was it possible he should give a greater testimony of himself , and withal of the purpose he came about , than he did when he was in the world ? the accomplishment of prophesies , and power of miracles shewed who he was ; the nature of his doctrine , the manner of his conversation , the greatness of his sufferings , shewed what his design was in appearing among men : for they were all managed with a peculiar respect to the convincing mankind , that god was upon terms of mercy with them , and had therefore sent his son into the world , that he might not only obtain the pardon of sin for those who repent , but eternal life for all them that obey him . and what is there now we can imagine so great and desireable as this , for god to manifest his wisdom in ? it is true , we see a great discovery of it in the works of nature , and might do in the methods of divine providence if partiality and interest did not blind our eyes ; but both these , though great in themselves , yet fall short of the contrivance of bringing to an eternal happiness man who had fallen from his maker , and was perishing in his own folly . yet this is that which men in the pride and vanity of their own imaginations either think not worth considering , or consider as little as if they thought so ; and in the mean time think themselves very wise too . the iews had the wisdom of their traditions which they gloried in , and despised the son of god himself when he came to alter them . the greeks had the wisdom of their philosophy which they so passionately admired , that whatever did not agree with that , though infinitely more certain and useful , was on that account rejected by them . the romans , after the conquest of so great a part of the world , were grown all such politicians and statesmen , that few of them could have leisure to think of another world , who were so busie in the management of this . and some of all these sorts do yet remain in the world , which makes so many so little think of , or admire this infinite discovery of divine wisdom : nay , there are some who can mix all these together , joyning a iewish obstinacy , with the pride and self-opinion of the greeks , to a roman unconcernedness about the matters of another life . and yet upon a true and just enquiry never any religion could be found , which could more fully satisfie the expectation of the iews , the reason of the greeks , or the wisdom of the romans , than that which was made known by christ , who was the wisdom of god , and the power of god. here the iew might find his messias come , and the promises fulfilled which related to him , here the greek might find his long and vainly looked for certainty of a life to come , and the way which leads to it , here the roman might see a religion serviceable to another world and this together . here are precepts more holy , promises more certain , rewards more desireable than ever the wit or invention of men could have attained to . here are institutions far more pious , useful and serviceable to mankind , than the most admired laws of the famous legislators of greece or rome . here are no popular designs carried on , no vices indulged for the publick interest , which solon , lycurgus and plato are charged with . here is no making religion a meer trick of state , and a thing only useful for governing the people , which numa and the great men at rome are lyable to the suspicion of . here is no wrapping up religion in strange figures and mysterious non-sense , which the aegyptians were so much given to . here is no inhumanity and cruelty in the sacrifices offer'd , no looseness and profaneness allowed in the most solemn mysteries , no worshipping of such for gods who had not been fit to live if they had been men , which were all things so commonly practised in the idolatries of the heathens . but the nature of the worship is such as the minds of those who come to it ought to be , and as becomes that god whom we profess to serve , pure and holy , grave and serious , solemn and devout , without the mixtures of superstition , vanity or ostentation . the precepts of our religion are plain and easie to be known , very suitable to the nature of mankind , and highly tending to the advantage of those who practise them , both in this and a better life . the arguments to perswade men are the most weighty and powerful , and of as great importance as the love of god , the death of his son , the hopes of happiness , and the fears of eternal misery , can be to men . and wherein is the contrivance of our religion defective , when the end is so desireable , the means so effectual for the obtaining of it ? . which is the next thing to be considered . there are two things which in this degenerate estate of man are necessary in order to the recovery of his happiness ; and those are repentance for sins past , and sincere obedience for the future : now both these the gospel gives men the greatest encouragements to , and therefore is the most likely to effect the design it was intended for . . for repentance for sins past . what more powerful motives can there be to perswade men to repent , than for god to let men know that he is willing to pardon their sins upon the sincerity of their repentance , but without that , there remains nothing but a fearful expectation of judgement , and fiery indignation ? that their sins are their follies , and therefore to repent is to grow wise : that he requires no more from men , but what every considerative man knows is fitting to be done whenever he reflects upon his actions : that there can be no greater ingratitude or disingenuity towards the son of god than to stand at defiance with god when he hath shed his blood to reconcile god and man to each other : that every step of his humiliation , every part of the tragedy of his life , every wound at his death , every groan and sigh which he uttered upon the cross , were designed by him as the most prevailing rhetorick , to perswade men to forsake their sins , and be happy : that there cannot be a more unaccountable folly , than by impenitency to lose the hopes of a certain and eternal happiness for the sake of those pleasures which every wise man is ashamed to think of : that to continue in sin with the hopes to repent , is to stab a mans self with the hopes of a cure : that the sooner men do it , the sooner they will find their minds at ease , and that the pleasures they enjoy in forsaking their sins , are far more noble and manly than ever they had in committing them : but if none of these arguments will prevail with them , perish they must , and that unavoidably , insupportably , and irrecoverably : and if such arguments as these will not prevail with men to leave their sins , it is impossible that any should . . for holiness of life : for christ did not come into the world , and dye for us , meerly that we should repent of what is past , a by denying ungodliness and worldly lusts , but that we should live soberly , righteously and godly in this present world . and what he doth expect , he hath given the greatest encouragements to perform : by the clearness of his precepts , the excellency of his own example , the promise of his grace , and the proposition of eternal rewards and punishments , whereby he takes off all the objections men are apt to make against obedience to the commands of christ : the pretence of ignorance , because his laws are so clear ; the pre tence of impossibility by his own example ; the pretence of infirmity by the assistance of his grace ; the pretence of the unnecessariness of so great care of our actions by making eternal rewards and punishments to depend upon it . let us then reflect upon the whole design of the gospel , and see how admirably it is suited to the end it was intended for , to the condition of those whose good was designed by it , and to the honour of the great contriver and manager of it . and let not us by our impenitency and the unholiness of our lives , dishonour god and our saviour , reproach our religion , and condemn that by our lives which we justifie by our words . for when we have said all we can , the best and most effectual vindication of christian religion is to live according to it : but oh then how unhappy are we that live in such an age wherein it were hard to know that men were christians , unless we are bound to believe their words against the tenour and course of their actions ! what is become of the purity , the innocency , the candour , the peaceableness , the sincerity and devotion of the primitive christians ! what is become of their zeal for the honour of christ , and christian religion ! if it we●e the design of men , to make our religion a dishonour and reproach to the iews , mahumetans , and heathens , could they do it by more effectual means than they have done ? who is there that looks into the present state of the christian world , could ever think that the christian religion was so incomparably beyond all others in the world ? is the now christian rome so much beyond what it was while it was heathen ? nay , was it not then remarkable in its first times for justice , sincerity , contempt of riches , and a kind of generous honesty , and who does not ( though of the same religion , if he hath any ingenuity left ) lament the want of all those things there now ? will not the sobriety of the very turks upbraid our excesses and debaucheries ? and the obstinacy of the iews in defence and practice of their religion , condemn our coldness and indifferency in ours ? if we have then any tenderness for the honour of our religion , or any kindness for our own souls , let us not only have the name , but let us lead the lives of christians ; let us make amends for all the reproaches which our religion hath suffered by the faction and disobedience of some , by the oaths and blasphemies , the impieties and profaneness of others , by the too great negligence and carelesness of all , that if it be possible , christianity may appear in its true glory , which will then only be , when those who name the name of christ depart from iniquity , and live in all manner of holy conversation and godliness . sermon iv. preached at white-hall . romans i. xvi . for i am not ashamed of the gospel of christ ; for it is the power of god unto salvation to every one that believes , to the jew first , and also to the greek . these words are uttered by one who was himself a remarkable instance of the truth of the doctrine contained in them , viz. of that divine power which did accompany the gospel of christ. for what can we imagine else should make him now not ashamed of the gospel of christ , who not long before was not ashamed to persecute all those who professed it ? one , whose spirit was fermented with the leaven of the pharisees , and inraged with fury against all who owned the name of christ , is of a sudden turned quite into another temper , to the confusion of those who employed him , and the amazement of them whom he designed to persecute . nay , so great was the change which was wrought in him , that from a bigot of the iewish religion he becomes an apostle of the christian , and from breathing flames against the christians , none more ready than he to undergo them for christ. if he had only given over his persecution , it might have been thought , that he had meerly run himself out of breath , and grown weary of his former fury , ( as greater persons than he did afterwards ) but to retain the same fervour of spirit in preaching christ , which he had before in opposing him , to have as great zeal for making christians , as he had for destroying them , must needs proceed from some great and unusual cause . whilest the iews thought he had too much learning and interest to become their enemy , and the christians found he had too much rage and fury to be their friend , even then when they least expected it , instead of continuing an instrument of the sanhedrin for punishing the christians , he declared himself an apostle and servant of jesus christ. and that no ordinary one neither ; for such was the efficacy of those divine words , saul , saul , why persecutest thou me , that they not only presently allay his former heat , but quicken and animate him to a greater zeal for the honour of him whom he had persecuted before . and the faster he had run when he was out of his way , the greater diligence he used when he found it , there being none of all the followers of christ who out-stript him in his constant endeavours to advance the christian religion in the world. and if an unwearied diligence to promote it , an uncessant care for preserving it , an universal concern for all who owned it , and an undaunted spirit in bearing the affronts and injuries he underwent for it , be any perswasive arguments of the love a man bears to his religion , there was never any person who made a clearer demonstration than st. paul did of the truth of his religion , and his sincerity in embracing it . for his endeavours were suitable to the greatness of his spirit , his care as large as the horizon of the sun of righteousness , his courage as great as the malice of his enemies . for he was neither afraid of the malice of the iews , or of the wisdom of the greeks , or of the power of the romans , but he goes up and down preaching the gospel in a sphere as large as his mind was , and with a zeal only parallel with his former fury . he encountred the iews in their synagogues , he disputed with the greeks in their most famous cities , at athens , corinth , ephesus , and elsewhere , and everywhere raising some trophies to the honour of the gospel ; nothing now remained but that he should do the same at rome also . and for this he wants not spirit and resolution , for he even longed to be there , vers . . n●y , he had often purposed to go thither , but waited for a convenient opportunity , v. . but while god was pleased otherwise to dispose of him , he could not conceal the joy which he had for the ready entertainment of the christian religion by those to whom he writes , and that their saith was grown as famous as the city wherein they dwelt . v. . first , i thank my god through iesus christ , for you all , that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world : and he further manifests the greatness of his affection to them , that without ceasing he made mention of them always in his prayers , v. . and among the rest of the blessings he prayed for , for himself and them ; he was sure not to forget his coming to them , v. . not out of an ambitious and vain-glorious humour that he might be taken notice of in that great and imperial city , but that he might be instrumental in doing them service as he had done others , v. . . and to this end he tells them , what an obligation lay upon him to spread the doctrine of christ in all places and to all persons , v. . i am debtor both to the greeks and to the barbarians , to the wise and to the unwise . so that neither the wisdom of the greeks , nor the the ignorance of the babarians could hinder st. paul from discovering to them the contrivances of infinite wisdom ; and the excellent methods of divine goodness in order to mens eternal welfare . and although rome now thought it self to be the seat of wisdom , as well as empire and power , yet our apostle declares his readiness to preach the gospel there too , v. . for which he gives a sufficient reason in the words of the text ; for i am not ashamed of the gospel of christ , for it is the power of god to salvation , &c. wherein we have considerable these two things , . the apostles boldness and freeness in declaring the doctrine of christ , for i am not ashamed , &c. . the ground of it in the following words , for it is the power of god to salvation , &c. . the apostles boldness and freeness in declaring the doctrine of christ. it was neither the gallantry of the roman court , nor the splendor of the city , not the greatness of her power , or wisdom of her statesmen could make st. paul entertain the meaner opinion of the doctrine he hoped to preach among them . had christ come 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , with a great deal of pomp and state into the world , subduing kingdoms and nations under him ; had st. paul been a general for the gospel instead of being an apostle of it , the great men of the world would then allow he had no cause to be ashamed either of his master , or of his employment . but to preach a crucified saviour among the glories and triumphs of rome , and a doctrine of so much simplicity and contempt of the world among those who were the masters of it , and managed it with so much art and cunning ; to perswade them to be followers of christ in a holy life , who could not be like the gods they worshiped , unless they were guilty of the greatest debaucheries , seems to be an employment so lyable to the greatest scorn and contempt , that none but a great and resolved spirit would ever undertake it . for when we consider after so many hundred years profession of christianity , how apt the greatness of the world is to make men ashamed of the practice of it ; and that men aim at a reputation for wit by being able to abuse the religion they own ; what entertainment might we then think our religion met with among the great men of the age it was first preached in , when it not only encountered those weaker weapons of scoffs and raillery , but the strong holds of interest and education ? if our religion now can hardly escape the bitter scoffs , and profane jests of men who pawn their souls to be accounted witty , what may we think it suffered then , when it was accounted a part of their own religion to dispise and reproach ours ? if in the age we live in , a man may be reproached for his piety and virtue , that is , for being really a christian , when all profess themselves to be so , what contempt did they undergo in the first ages of the christian world , when the very name of christian was thought a sufficient brand of infamy ? and yet such was the courage and magnanimity of the primitive christians , that what was accounted most mean and contemptible in their religion , viz. their believing in a crucified saviour , was by them accounted the matter of their greatest honour and glory . for though st. paul only saith here that he was not ashamed of the gospel of christ , yet elsewere he explains that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is contained in these words , when he saith , god forbid that i should glory in any thing , save in the cross of christ , by whom the world is crucified to me , and i unto the world. gal. . . i. e. although he could not but be sensible how much the world despised him , and his religion together , yet that was the great satisfaction of his mind , that his religion had enabled him to despise the world as much . for neither the pomp and grandeur of the world , nor the smiles and flatteries of it , no nor its frowns and severities could abate any thing of that mighty esteem and value which he had for the christian religion . for in his own expression , he accounted all things else but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of christ iesus his lord , phil. . . which words are not spoken by one who was in despair of being taken notice of for any thing else , and therefore magnifies the profession he was engaged in ; but by a person as considerable as most of the time and nation he lived in both for his birth and education . so that his contempt of the world was no sullen and affected severity , but the issue of a sober and impartial judgement ; and the high esteem he professed of christianity was no fanatick whimsey , but the effect of a diligent enquiry , and the most serious consideration . and that will appear , . by the grounds and reasons which st. paul here gives why he was not ashamed of the gospel of christ , . from the excellent end it was designed for , and that is no less than salvation . . from the effectualness of it in order to that end , it is the power of god to salvation . . from the necessity of believing the gospel by all who would attain that end ; to every one that believes , the iew first and also to the greek . . from the excellent end it was designed for , the recovery and happiness of the souls of men , both which are implyed in the term salvation . for , considering the present condition of humane nature , as it is so far sunk beneath it self , and kept under the power of unruly passions ; whatever tends to make it happy , must do it by delivering it from all those things which are the occasions of its misery . so that whatever religion should promise to make men happy , without first making them vertuous and good , might on that very account be justly suspected of imposture . for the same reasons which make the acts of any religion necessary , viz. that we may please that god who commands and governs the world , must make it necessary for men to do it , in those things which are far more acceptable to him than all our sacrifices of what kind soever , which are the actions of true vertue and goodness . if then that accusation had been true , which celsus and iulian charged christianity with , viz. that it indulged men in the practice of vice , with the promise of a future happiness notwithstanding ; i know nothing could have rendred it more suspicious to be a design to deceive mankind . but so far is it from having the least foundation of truth in it , that as there never was any religion which gave men such certain hopes of a future felicity , and consequently more encouragement to be good , so there was none ever required it on those strict and severe terms which christianity doth . for there being two grand duties of men in this world , either towards god in the holiness of their hearts and lives , or towards their brethren , in a peaceable carriage among men ( which cannot be without justice and sobriety ) both these are enforced upon all christians , upon no meaner terms than the unavoidable loss of all the happiness our religion promises . follow peace with all men , and holiness , without which no man shall see the lord. heb. . . this is then the grand design of christianity , to make men happy in another world , by making them good and vertuous in this : it came to reform this world that it might people another ; so to purifie the souls of men , as to make them meet to enjoy the happiness designed for them . this is that great salvation which the gospel brings to the world . heb. . . and thence it is called the word of salvation , acts . . the way of salvation , acts . . the gospel of salvation , ephes. . . so that though christianity be of unspeakable advantage to this world , there being no religion that tends so much to the peace of mens minds , and the preservation of civil societies as this doth ; yet all this it doth by way of subordination to the great end of it , which is the promoting mens eternal happiness . and the more we consider the vast consequence and importance of this end to mankind , the greater reason we shall find that st. paul , had why he should not be ashamed of the gospel of christ. for can we imagine any end more noble that any doctrine can aim at than this ? supposing the common principles of all religion to be true , viz. the being of god , and immortality of our souls , there can be nothing more becoming that god to discover , or those souls to be imployed about , than the way to a blessed immortality . and if we admire those discourses of the heathen philosophers , wherein they speak more darkly and obscurely concerning those things , what admiration doth the gospel deserve , which hath brought life and immortality to light ? if we commend the vertuous heathens , who according to those short and obscure notices which they had of god and themselves , sought to make the world any thing the better for their being in it , what infinitely greater esteem do those blessed apostles deserve , who accounted not their own lives dear to them that they might make even their enemies happy ? if those mens memories be dear to us who sacrifice their lives and fortunes for the sake of the country they belong to , shall not those be much more so who have done it for the good of the whole world ? such who chearfully suffered death while they were teaching men the way to an eternal life , and who patiently endured the flames if they might but give the greater light to the world by them . such who did as far out-go any of the admired heroes of the heathens , as the purging the world from sin is of greater consequence than cleansing an augaean stable from the filth of it , and rescuing men from eternal flames is a more noble design than clearing a country from pyrats and robbers . nay , most of the heathen gods who were so solemn●y worshipped in greece and at rome , owed their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to such flen●er benefits to mankind ; that sure the world was very barbarous or hugely grateful when they could think them no less than gods who found out such things for men : if a smiths forge , and a womans distaffe , if teaching men the noble arts of fighting and cheating one another were such rare inventions , that they only became some of the most celebrated deities which the grave and demure romans thought fit to worship ; sure st. paul had no cause to be ashamed of his religion among them , who had so much reason to be ashamed of their own ; since his design was to perswade them out of all the vanities and fooleries of their idolatrous worship , and to bring them to the service of the true and ever living god , who had discovered so much goodness to the world in making his son a propitiation for the sins of it . and was not this a discovery infinitely greater and more suitable to the nature of god , than any which the subtilty of the greeks , or wisdom of the romans could ever pretend to concerning any of their deities ? thus we see the ex cellent end of our religion was that which made st. paul so far from being ashamed of it ; and so it would do all us too , if we did understand and value it as st. paul did . but it is the great dishonour of too many among us , that they are more ashamed of their religion than they are of their sins if to talk boldly against heaven , to affront god in calling him to witness their great impieties by frequent oaths , to sin bravely and with the highest confidence , to mock at such who are yet mo●e modest in their debaucheries , were not to be ashamed of the gospel of christ , we might find st. pauls enough in the age we live in , and it would be a piece of gallantry to be apostles . but this is rather the utmost endeavour to put religion out of countenance , and make the gospel it self blush and be ashamed , that ever such boldfaced impieties should be committed by men under the profession of it , as though they believed nothing so damnable as repentance and a holy life , and no sin so unpardonable as modesty in committing it . but to use st. pauls language when he had been describing such persons himself , hob. . . we are perswaded better things of you , and things that accompany that salvation the gospel was designed for , though we thus speak . for certainly nothing can argue a greater meanness of spirit , than while wicked and profane persons are not ashamed of that which unavoidably tends to their ruine , any should be shy of the profession and practice of that which conduces to their eternal happiness . what is become of all that magnanimity and generous spirit which the primitve christians were so remarkable for , if while some are impudent in sinning , others are ashamed of being or doing good ? if we have that value for our immortal souls , and a future life , which we ought to have , we shall not trouble our selves much with the atheistical scoffs and drollery of profane persons , who while they deride and despise religion , do but laugh themselves into eternal misery . and thus much for the first ground of st. pauls confidence , viz. the excellent end the gospel was designed for . . the effectualness of it in order to that end . it is the power of god to salvation . wherein two things are implyed . . the inefficacy of any other doctrine for that end . . the effectualness of the gospel in order to it . the inefficacy of any other doctrine for this end of promoting the eternal salvation of mankind . if the world had been acquainted with any doctrine before which had been sufficient for the purposes the gospel was designed for , there would have been no such necessity of propagating it among men ; nor had there been reason enough to have justified the apostles in exposing themselves to so great hazards for the preaching of it . if the notion of an eternal god and providence , without the knowledge of a saviour , had been sufficient to reform the world , and make men happy ; it had not been consistent with the wisdom or goodness of god to have imploy'd so many persons , with the loss of their lives , to declare the doctrine of christ to the world. so that if christianity be true , it must be thought necessary to salvation , for the necessity of it was declared by those who were the instruments of confirming the truth of it . i meddle not with the case of those particular persons who had no means or opportunity to know gods revealed will , and yet from the principles of natural religion did reform their lives , in hopes of a future felicity ( if any such there were ) but whether there were not a necessity of such a doctrine as the gospel is to be discover'd to the world , in order to the reformation of it ? for some very few persons either through the goodness of their natures , the advantage of their education , or some cause of a higher nature , may have led more vertuous lives than others did ; but it is necessary , that what aims at the general good of mankind , must be suited to the capacities of all , and enforced with arguments which may prevail on any but the most obstinate and wilful persons . but when we consider the state of the world at that time when christianity was first made known to it , we may easily see how insufficient the common principles of religion were , from working a reformation in it , when notwithstanding them mankind was so generally lapsed into idolatry and vice , that hardly any can be instanced in in the heathen world , who had escaped both of them . and there was so near an affinity between both these , that they who were ingaged in the rites of their idolatry , could hardly keep themselves free from the intan glements of vice ; not only because many of their villanies were practised as part of their religion , ( and there was little hopes certainly of their being good , who could not be religious without being bad ) but because the very gods they worship'd were represented to be as bad as themselves . and could they take any better measure of vertue , than from the actions of those whom they supposed to have so divine an excellency in them , as to deserve their adoration ? so that if there were a design of planting wickedness in the world ( which need not be , for it grows fast enough without it ) it could not be done more successfully than by worshipping those for gods , who did such things which good men would abhorr to think of . and yet this was the state of the world then , when the gospel was preached , and not only of the more rude and barbarous nations , but of the most civilized and knowing people , as the romans themselves ; as our apostle at large proves in the remainder of this chapter , wherein he shews , that though they had means enough of knowing the eternal god and providence , yet they were so fallen into idolatry , and the most vicious practices , that there was no means of recovering them , but by a fuller discovery both of the justice and goodness of god. i know it will be here objected , that though the generality of men were bad then ( as when were they otherwise ) yet the heathens had a kind of apostles among them , viz. the philosophers , who sought to amend the manners of men by the moral instructions they gave them , so that if men were bad , it was not for want of good counsel , but for not observing it , which is all ( they say ) we have to say for our selves , when we are charged with the great debaucheries of the christian world . to which i answer , that our business is not now to enquire whether there hath not been an incomparably greater advantage to the world by christianity , in the reforming mens lives , than ever was by any of the heathen morals ; but whether these , taking them in the fairest dress , were so sufficient for the bringing men to eternal happiness , that there needed not any such doctrine as christianity be published for that end ? and there are two great things we may charge the best of their discourses with an insufficiency in , for the accomplishment of this end , which are certainty , and motives , or the want of arguments to believe , and encouragements to practise . . they were destitute of sufficient certainty ; for what a man ventures his eternal state upon , he ought to be well assured of the truth of it . but how was it possible for the world to be reformed by such wise apostles ( if they must be called so ) who were perpetually disputing among themselves about those things which were the most necessary foundations of all vertue and religion ? as though the best arguments they had to prove their souls immortal , was because their disputes about them were so . and those seemed among them to gain the greatest reputation for wit , who were best able to dispute against common principles ; and they managed their business with greatest advantage , who only shewed the weakness of others principles , but established none of their own ; which was an unavoidable consequence of the way they proceeded in , for offering at no such way of proof as christianity doth , they rather taught men to dispute , than to live eternally . besides , their discourses were too subtile and intricate for the common capacities of men ; how long might a man live before an entelechia would make him know the nature of his soul the better , or an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 perswade him to believe its immortality ? insomuch that it is hard to determine , whether the arguments used by them , did not rather hinder assent , than perswade to it ? and it seems probable that the honest minded , illiterate heathens believed those things more firmly than the greatest philosophers . for plain truths lose much of their weight , when they are rarified into subtilties , and their strength is impaired when they are spun into too fine a thread . the arguments which must prevail with mankind , must be plain and evident , easie and yet powerful . the natural sense of good and evil in men is oft-times dulled by disputes , and only awakned by a powerful representation of an infinite being , and a future judgement : and that by such a way of proof as all persons are equal judges of the truth and validity of it ; such as the resurrection of christ is in the gospel . . but let us suppose the arguments certain and suitable , yet what sufficient motives or encouragements could they give to lead a holy and vertuous life , who after all their endeavours to perswade others , remained so uncertain themselves as to a future happiness ? so tully tells us of socrates himself when he was just dying , that he told his friends , that only the gods knew whether it was fitter for men to live or die , but he thought no man did . and although some would excuse this as his usual way of disputing , yet of all times one would think it was fittest for him then to declare his mind in the most express terms , not only for the full vindication of himself , but for the comfort and encouragement of his friends . we are sure , christianity proceeds on those terms , that if a future happiness be supposed uncertain , it declares expresly there can be no sufficient reason given for men to part with the conveniencies of this present life ; nay , it supposes the best men to be the most miserable of all others , if there be not a future reward , cor. . . — . again , what probability was there they should ever perswade the world to vertue and goodness , when the severest of the philisophers , made it lye in things so repugnant to humane nature , as goodness is agreeable to it . as when they made it an equal fault for a man to be angry , and to murder his soveraign ; and that all passions are to be destroy'd , that pain and grief are nothing , that vertue in all conditions is a sufficient reward to it self . which are so contrary to the common sense of mankind , that the only way to perswade men to believe them , is first to perswade them they are not men . so that he was certainly the wisest man among the heathens , who concluded , that we ought to expect a higher master to teach us these things , and to acquaint us with the happiness of a future life . and hereby an answer may be given to porphyries grand objection against christian religion , viz. if it were so necessary for the good of mankind , why was it so long before it was discovered ? because god would thereby discover the insufficiency of all the means the wit of man could find out to reform the world , without this . that not only the iews might see the weakness of that dispensation they were under , but the gentile world might groan with an expectation of some more powerful means to goodness than were yet among them . for when philosophy had been so long in its height , and had so little influence upon mankind , it was time for the sun of righteousness to arise , and with the softening and healing influence of his beams to bring the world to a more vertuous temper . and that leads to the second thing implyed , which is the peculiar efficacy of the gospel for promoting mens salvation , for it is the power of god to salvation , and that will appear , by considering how many ways the power of god is engaged in it . these three especially . . in confirmation of the truth of it . . in the admirable effects of it in the world. . in the diviue assistance which is promised to those who embrace it . . in confirmation of the truth of it . for the world was grown so uncertain , as to the grand foundations of religion , that the same power was requisite now to settle the world , which was at first for the framing of it . for though the precepts of christian religion be pure and easie , holy and suitable to the sense of mankind , though the promises be great and excellent , proportionable to our wants and the weight of our business , though the reward be such that it is easier to desire than comprehend it , yet all these would but seem to baffle the more the expectations of men , unless they were built on some extraordinary evidence of divine power . and such we assert there was in the confirmation of these things to us , not only in the miraculous birth of our saviour , and that continual series of unparallel'd miracles in his life , not only in the most obliging circumstances of his death ; nor only in the large effusion of divine gifts upon his apostles , and the strange propagation of christian religion by them against all humane power ; but that which i shall particularly instance in , as the great effect of divine power , and confirmation of our religion , was his resurrection from the dead . for , as our apostle saith , rom. . . christ was declared to be the son of god with power according to the spirit of holiness , by the resurrection from the dead . no way of evidence could be more suitable to the capacities of all , than this , it being a plain matter of fact ; none ever better attested than this was , not only by the unanimous consent of all the witnesses , but by their constant adhering to the truth of it , though it cost almost all of them their lives ; and no greater evidence could be given to the world of a divine power , since both iews and gentiles agreed in this , that such a thing could not be effected but by an immediate hand of god. so far were they then from thinking a resurrection possible by the juyce of herbs , or an infusion of warm blood into the veins , or by the breath of living creatures , as the great martyr for atheism would seem from pliny to perswade us ; when yet certainly nothing can be of higher concernment to those who believe not another life , than to have try'd this experiment long ere now ; and since nothing of that nature hath ever happened since our saviours resurrection , it only lets us know what credulous men in other things the greatest infidels as to religion are . but so far were they at that time from so fond an imagination , that they readily yielded , that none but god could do it , though they seem'd to question whether god himself could do it or no. as appears by the apostles interrogation , why should it be thought a thing incredible with you , that god should raise the dead ? act. . . this was therefore judged on both sides to be a matter of so great importance , that all the disputes concerning christian religion were resolved into this , whether christ were risen from the dead ? and this the apostles urge and insist on , upon all occasions , as the great evidence of the truth of his doctrine , and this was the main part of their commission , for they were sent abroad to be witnesses of his resurrection . which was not designed by god as a thing strange and incredible to puzle mankind with , but to give the highest assurance imaginable to the world of the truth and importance of christianity . since god was pleased to imploy his power in so high a manner to confirm the certainty of it . . gods power was seen in the admirable effects of christian religion upon the minds of men : which was most discernable by the strange alteration it soon made in the state of the world . in iudea soon after the death of christ , some of his crucifiers become christians , . converts made at one sermon of st. peter's , and great accessions made afterwards both in hierusalem and other places . yea in all parts of the roman empire , where the christians came , they so increased and multiplyed , that thereby it appeared that god had given a benediction to his new creation suitable to what he gave to the first . so that within the compass of not a hundred years after our saviours death , the world might admire to see it self so strangely changed from what it was . the temple at hierusalem destroy'd , and the iews under a sadder dispersion than ever , and rendred uncapable of continuing their former worship of god there : the heathen temples unfrequented , the gods derided , the oracles ceased , the philosophers puzled , the magistrates disheartned by their fruitless cruelties , and all this done by a few christians who came and preached to the world righteousness , temperance , and a iudgement to come , whereof god had given assurance to the world , by raising one iesus from the dead . and all this effected not by the power of wit and eloquence , not by the force and violence of rebellious subjects , not by men of hot and giddy brains , but by men sober , just , humble and meek in all their carriages , but withal such as might never have been heard of in the world , had not this doctrine made them famous . what could this then be imputed to less than a divine power , which by effectual and secret ways carries on its own design against all the force and wit of men . so that the wise gamaliel , at whose feet st. paul was bred , seem'd to have the truest apprehensions of these things at that time , when he told the sanhedrin , if this counsel , or this work be of men , it will come to nought , but if it be of god , ye cannot overthrow it , least haply ye be found to fight against god. act. . , . . in the divine assistance which is promised to those who embrace it : in which respect it is properly the power of god to salvation ; and therein far beyond what the philosophers could promise to any who embraced their opinions . for , the gospel doth not only discover the necessity of a principle superiour to nature , which we call grace , in order to the fitting our souls for their future happiness , but likewise shews on what terms god is pleased to bestow it on men , viz. on the consideration of the death and passion of our lord and saviour . not by works of righteousness which we have done , but according to his mercy he saved us by the washing of regeneration , and renewing of the holy ghost , which he shed on us abundantly through christ our saviour , titus . . . there being nothing in humane nature which could oblige god , to give to mankind that assistance of his grace whereby they are enabled to work out this salvation the gospel is designed for , with fear and trembling . the whole tenor of the gospel importing a divine power which doth accompany the preaching of it , which is designed on purpose to heal the wounds , and help the weakness of our depraved and degenerate nature . through which we may be kept to salvation : but it must be through faith , pet. . . . which is the last particular of the words ; the necessity of believing the gospel in order to the partaking of the salvation promised in it ; it is the power of god to salvation to every one that believes , to the iew first , and also to the greek . an easie way of salvation , if no more were required to mens happiness but a fancy and strong opinion which they will easily call believing . so there were some in st. augustin's time , i could wish there were none in ours , who thought nothing necessary to salvation but a strong faith , let their lives be what they pleased . but this is so repugnant to the main design of christian religion , that they who think themselves the strongest believers , are certainly the weakest , and most ungrounded . for they believe scarce any other proposition in the new testament , but that whosoever believeth shall be saved . if they did believe that christ came into the world to reform it , and make it better , that the wrath of god is now revealed from heaven against all unrighteousness , as well as that the just by faith shall live , that the design of all that love of christ , which is shewn to the world , is to deliver them from the hand of their enemies , that they might serve him in righteousness and holiness all the days of their lives , they could never imagine , that salvation is entailed by the gospel on a mighty confidence or vehement perswasion of what christ hath done and suffered for them . and so far is st. paul from asserting this , that as far as i can see , he never meddles with a matter of that nicety , whether a single act of faith be the condition of our justification as it is distinguished from evangelical obedience , but his discourse runs upon this subject ; whether god will pardon the sins of men upon any other terms than those which are declared in the christian religion , the former he calls works , and the latter faith. i know , the subtilty of later times hath made st. paul dispute in the matter of justification , not as one bred up at the feet of gamaliel , but of the master of the sentences ; but men did not then understand their religion at all the worse because it was plain and easie ; and , it may be , if others since had understood their religion better , there would never have needed so much subtilty to explain it , nor so many distinctions to defend it . the apostle makes the same terms of justification and of salvation , for as hesaith elsewhere , a we are justified by faith , he saith here , the gospel is the power of god to salvation to every one that believes ; if therefore a single act of faith be sufficient for one , why not for the other also ? but if believing here be taken in a more large and comprehensive sense , as a complex act relating to our undertaking the conditions of the gospel ; why should it not be taken so in the subsequent discourse of the apostle ? for we are to observe , that st. paul in this epistle is not disputing against any sort of christians that thought to be saved by their obedience to the gospel from the assistance of divine grace ; but against those who thought the grace and indulgence of the gospel by no means necessary in order to the pardon of their sins , and their eternal happiness . two things therefore the apostle mainly designs to prove in the beginning of it : first , the insufficiency of any other way of salvation besides that offer'd by the gospel ; whether it were the light of nature which the gentiles contended for , but were far from living according to it ; or that imaginary covenant of works , which the iews fancied to themselves ( for it will be a very hard matter to prove that ever god entred into a covenant of works with fallen man , which he knew it was impossible for him to observe ) bu●t hey were so highly opinionated of themselves , and of those legal observations which were among them , that they thought by vertue of them they could merit so much favour at gods hands , that there was no need of any other sacrifice , but what was among themselves to expiate the guilt of all their sins . and on that account they rejected the gospel , as the apostle tells us , b that they being ignorant of gods righteousness , and going about to establish their own righteousness , have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of god. against these therefore the apostle proves , that if they hoped for happiness upon such strict terms , they laid only a foundation of c boasting if they did all which god required , but of misery if they did not ; for then , d cursed is every one that continues not in every thing written in the law to do it . i. e. if they sailed in any one thing , then they must fail of all their hopes ; but such a state of persection being impossible to humane nature ; he shews , that either all mankind must unavoidably perish , or they must be saved by the grace and favour of god , which he proves to be discovered by the gospel : and that god will now accept of a hearty and sincere obedience to his will declared by his son ; so that all those who perform that , though they live not in the nice observance of the law of moses , shall not need to fear the penalty of their sins in another life . which is the second thing he designs to prove , viz. that those who obeyed the gospel , whether iew or greek , were equally capable of salvation by it . a for , saith he , is god the god of the iews only ? is he not also of the gentiles ? tes , of the gentiles also : because both iew and gentile were to be justified upon the same terms , as he proves afterwards . so that gods justifying of us by the gospel , is the solemn declaration of himself upon what terms he will pardon the sins of men ; that is , deliver them from the penalties they have deserved by them . for the actual discharge of the person is reserved to the great day ; all the justification we have here is only declarative from god , but so as to give a right to us , by vertue whereof we are assured , that god will not only not exercise his utmost rigour , but shew all favour and kindness to those who by belief of the gospel do repent and obey . god doth now remit sin as he forbears to punish it ; he remits the sinner as he he assures him by the death of christ he will not punish upon his repentance ; but he fully remits both , when he delivers the person upon the tryal of the great day , from all the penalties which he hath deserved by his sins . so that our compleat justification and salvation go both upon the same terms , and the same faith which is sufficient for one , must be sufficient for the other also . what care then ought men to take , lest by mis-understanding the notion of believing , so much spoken of as the condition of our salvation , they live in a neglect of that holy obedience which the gospel requires , and so believe themselves into eternal misery . but as long as men make their obedience necessary , though but as the fruit and effect of faith , it shall not want its reward : for those , whose hearts are purified by faith shall never be condemned for mistaking the notion of it ; and they who live as those that are to be judged according to their works , shall not miss their reward , though they do not think they shall receive it for them . but such who make no other condition of the gospel but believing , and will scarce allow that to be called a condition , ought to have a great care to keep their hearts sounder than their heads , for their only security will lye in this , that they are good though they see no necessity of being so . and such of all others i grant have reason to acknowledge the irresistable power of divine grace , which enables them to obey the will of god against the dictates of their own judgements . but thanks be to god , who hath so abundantly provided for all the infirmities of humane nature , by the large offers of his grace , and assistance of his spirit , that though we meet with so much opposition without , and so much weakness within , and so many discouragements on every side of us ; yet if we sincerely apply our selves to do the will of god , we have as great assurance as may be , that we shall be kept by the power of god through faith unto salvation . sermon v. preached at white hall . hebrews ii. iii. how shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation ? when the wise and eternal counsels of heaven concerning the salvation of mankind by the death of the son of god , were first declared to the world by his own appearance and preaching in it ; nothing could be more reasonably expected , than that the dignity of his person , the authority of his doctrine , and the excellency of his life , should have perswaded those whom he appeared among , to such an admiration of his person , and belief of his doctrine , as might have led them to an imitation of him in the holiness of his life and conversation . for if either the worth of the person , or the importance of the message might prevail any thing towards a kind and honourable reception among men ; there was never any person appeared in any degree comparable to him , never any message declared which might challenge so welcome an entertainment from men , as that was which he came upon . if to give mankind the highest assurance of a state of life and immortality , if to offer the pardon of sin , and reconciliation with god upon the most easie and reasonable terms , if to purge the degenerate world from all its impurities by a doctrine as holy as the author of it ; were things as becoming the son of god to reveal , as the sons of men to receive : nothing can be more unaccountable than that his person should be dispised , his authority slighted , and his doctrine contemned . and that by those whose interest was more concerned in the consequence of these things , than himself could be in all the affronts and injuries he underwent from men : for the more the indignities , the greater the shame , the sharper the sufferings which he did undergo , the higher was the honour and glory which he was advanced to : but the more obliging the instances of his kindness were , the greater the salvation that was tendered by him , the more prevailing the motives were for the entertainment of his doctrine , the more exemplary and severe will the punishment be of all those who reject it . for it is very agreeable to those eternal laws of justice by which god governs the world , that the punishment should arise pro portionably to the greatness of the mercies despised : and therefore although the scripture be very sparing in telling us what the state of those persons shall be in another life who never heard of the gospel ; yet for those who do , and despise it , it tells us plainly , that an eternal misery is the just desert of those to whom an eternal happiness was offered , and yet neglected by them . and we are the rather told of it , that men may not think it a surprize in the life to come ; or that if they had known the danger , they would have escaped it ; and therefore our blessed saviour , who never mentioned punishment but with a design to keep men from it , declares it frequently , that the punishment of those persons and places would be most intolerable , who have received , but not improved the light of the gospel : and that it would be more a tolerable , for the persons who had offered violence to nature , and had hell-fire burning in their hearts by their horrid impurities , than for those who heard the doctrine , and saw the miracles of christ , and were much the worse , rather than any thing the better for it . but lest we should think that all this black scene of misery was only designed for those who were the actors in that doleful tragedy of our saviours sufferings : we are told by those who were best able to assure us of it , that the same dismal consequences will attend all the affronts of his doctrine , as if they had been offered to his own person . for it is nothing but the common flattery and self-deceit of humane nature , which makes any imagine , that though they do not now either believe or obey the gospel ; they should have done both , if they had heard our saviour speak as never man spake , and seen him do what never man did : for the same disposition of mind which makes them now slight that doctrine which is delivered to them by them that heard him , would have made them slight the person as well as the doctrine , if they had heard it from himself . and therefore it is but reasonable that the same punishment should belong to both ; especially since god hath provided so abundantly for the assurance of our faith , by the miraculous and powerful demonstration of that divine spirit which did accompany those who were the first publishers of this doctrine to the world . and therefore the author of this epistle , after he hath in the words of the text declared , that it is impossible to escape , if we neglect the great salvation offered us by the gospel ; in the following words he gives us that account of it , that at first it began to be spoken by the lord , and was confirmed to us by them that heard him : god also bearing them witness both with signs and wonders , and divers miracles , and gifts of the holy ghost , according to his own will. so that the miraculous gifts of the holy ghost , falling upon the apostles , and the many signs and wonders which were wrought by them , were the great testimony of god to the world , that these were the persons imployed by himself to declare that doctrine whereon the eternal salvation of mankind did depend . and since we have so lately acknowledged the truth of this testimony which god gave to the apostles , by the solemn celebration of that glorious descent of the holy ghost upon them on the day of pentecost , that which naturally follows from it is , the great care we ought to take lest we be found guilty of neglecting that great salvation which is offered to us in that doctrine which was attested in so eminent a manner by god himself ; and that from the consideration of our own danger ; for how shall we escape , if we neglect so great salvation ? wherein are three things considerable : . the care god hath taken to make us happy , by offering so great salvation to us . . the care we ought to take in order to our own happiness , not to neglect the offers which god hath made us . . the unavoidable punishment which those do incur who are guilty of this neglect . how shall we escape ? i need not tell this auditory how forcible the negative is , which is expressed by such an interrogation which appeals to the judgement of all who hear it , and so relies not upon the bare authority of the speaker , but upon the plain evidence of the thing , which others were judges of as well as himself . as though he had said , if you slight and disesteem the gospel of christ , upon whatever grounds ye do it , if either through too great an opinion of the wisdom of this world you despi●e it as vain and useless , if through too mean an opinion of the excellency of christianity , you reject it either as uncertain in its theory , or impossible in its practice ; or if through too great a love of the pleasures of sin , or a secure and careless temper of mind , you regard not the doing what christianity requires to make you happy ; think with your selves , what way you can find to escape the wrath of god ; for my part , i know of none ; for if god were so severe against the violation of a far meaner institution , viz. of the law of moses , insomuch that every contempt and disobedience did receive a just recompence of reward , how shall we escape who neglect so great salvation ? or as the apostle elsewhere argues to the same purpose . a he that despised moses law died without mercy under two or three witnesses , of how much sorer punishment suppose ye shall he be thought worthy , who hath trodden under foot the son of god , and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing , and hath done despite unto the spirit of grace ? this is a sad subject , but i am afraid too necessary to be spoken to in the age we live in ; wherein men seem to be inapprehensive of the danger of inwardly despising the religion they prosess to own , and the neglecting of that which they hope to be saved by . it is strange that it should be so , but much more strange that men should think to do so , and not be called to an account for it . it is not only the gross and open sinner that defies heaven , and by his oaths and blasphemies dares god to shew his power and justice upon him , but the slye and self-deceiving hypocrite that hates religion while he thinks he loves it ; that in his heart contemns it , but is afraid to know that he does so , that ought to be possessed with a truer sense of religion , and a greater dread of the issue of the contempt or neglect of it . there is some appearance of ingenuity in an open enmity ; but none so dangerous as that which hides it self under the disguise of friendship . in our saviours time there were several sorts of those who shewed their disesteem of him , some that were so enraged against him , that they contrive all ways for his disgrace and punishment , others could hear him with patience , b but the cares of this world , the deceitfulness of riches , and the lust of other things choaked and stifled all good apprehensions of him , that they became weak and ineffectual . and those were guilty of making light of the marriage-feast because of other business which they had to mind , matth. . . as well as those who offered all the injuries and affronts to his servants that invited them , v. . and as it was in the days of our saviour , so it is now ; some were eating and drinking , minding nothing but the vain and sensual pleasures of the world ; some were buying and selling , so busie in this world , that they had no leasure to think of being happy in another , some were deriding and blaspheming ; but all these too wise , or too vain , or too profane to mind the offers of eternal salvation . i wish we could say it were otherwise now , that a sensual and voluptuous , an easie and a careless life in some , that ambition and the restless pursuit after the honour and riches of the world in others , that a profane wit , and a contempt of all that is serious in those that think themselves too great to be religious , did not enervate the force of christianity upon their minds , and make them all though upon different grounds agree in the neglect of their own salvation . but is the case of such men grown so desperate that noremedy can work upon them ? hath the love of sin and the world so far intoxicated them , that no reason or consideration whatever can awaken them ? have they hardned themselves against all the power of divine truths with a resolution as strong as death , and as cruel as the grave whither they are going ? will neither the love of happiness , nor the fear of misery , their own interest , and the wisdom of avoiding so great a danger , the dread of the majesty and power of god , and the horror of the great day , prevail at least so far on men to consider , whether these things be true or no ; and if they be , what unspeakable solly it is to neglect them ? and the better to make that appear , i shall prove these following things : . that god by the gospel hath taken so great care of mens happiness , that nothing but a gross neglect can make them miserable . . that nothing can be more unreasonable , than when god hath taken so much care of it , men should neglect it themselves . . that it is very just for god to vindicate himself against so gross a neglect , by the severe punishments of the life to come . . that god by the gospel hath taken so great care of mens salvation , that nothing but a gross neglect can make them miserable . for , whatever the mind of man can imagine necessary in order to its own happiness , in its present fallen and degenerate condition , is abundantly provided for by the gospel of christ. for , man was so wholly lost as to his own felicity , that among the ruins and decays of his nature , he could not pick up so much as the perfect image and idea of his own happiness ; when he reflects upon himself , he finds himself such a consused mass of folly and weakness , that he can never imagine that so noble a design should have its ground-work laid upon so course a being . and rather than believe the foundation of his happiness to be within himself , there is nothing so vain and trifling without him , but he is ready to fall down before it , and cry out , here i place my selicity . sometimes he admires the brave shews , and the pomp and gallantry of the world , and thinks nothing comparable to a glorious out-side , and a great train of attendants : sometimes he raises himself , and flutters upon the wings of a popular air , till a cross blast comes and leaves him in the common rout : sometimes his eyes are dazled with the glory of the more refined and solid pieces of that earth out of which he was framed , and thinks it reasonable , that the softness of flesh and blood , should yield to the impressions of silver and gold ; sometimes he even envies the pleasures of the brutes , and if it were possible would outdo them in their grossest sensualities : sometimes again he slatters himself , and then adores his own imperfections , and thinks his passions , honour ; and his profaneness wit. so far is vain man from making himself happy , that the first step to it , is to make him understand what it is to be so . but supposing that the true image of his happiness should drop down from heaven ; and by the place from whence it fell , should conclude where the thing it self is to be found ; yet this were only to make him more miserable , unless he withal knew how to come thither . he is sure not to climb up to it by the tops of the highest mountains , nor to be carried thither upon the wings of a mighty wind , he hath no fiery chariots at his command to ascend with to the glories above : but only he that maketh his angels spirits , and his ministers a flame of fire , is able to preserve the souls of men from vanishing into the soft air , and to conduct them to the mansions of eternal bliss . it is he only that can make them capable of the joys of another life , by purging them from the stains and the pollutions of this . and therefore without his grace and favour ever to hope for the happiness of heaven , must be by fancying a heaven to be there , where there is no god. so that it is necessary , that the proposals of this salvation must come from the author of it , and that with such arguments as may perswade men of the truth of it , and with such motives as may encourage men to accept of them . now the gospel of christ affords us all these things which are necessary to our happiness , there we have the most agreeable and setled notion and idea of it , the most large and free offers of divine goodness in order to it , the greatest assurance that these things did immediately proceed from god , and the most encouraging motives to accept of these offers in order to that great salvation which is tendred to us . . we have the most agreeable and setled notion of true happiness : not such a mean and uncertain thing which lies at the mercy of the continual vicissitudes and contingencies of this present state , but that which is able to bear up the mind of man against all the troubles of this life , and to carry him to a region beyond them all , where there is a fulness of joy without an allay of sadness after it , and ever-flowing rivers of pleasures that need no dams to make them rise higher , nor falls to make their motion perceived . our blessed saviour never flatters his followers with the expectation of a felicity in this life ; contentment is the most he hath promised them , and that they may enjoy , if they follow his directions , let this world be what it will , and do what it pleases with them . he never tells his disciples they may have satisfaction here if they lie upon their beds of down with their heads full of tormenting cares , that the pleasure of humane life lies in the gratifications of the senses , and in making what use they can of the world ; he never deceives them with the promise of so poor a happiness as that which depends upon health , friends , prosperity , and having our own wills . no , but he tells them of a more noble and generous felicity ; that will preserve its own state and grandeur in spight of the world ; a happiness consistent with loss of estate , loss of friends , with affronts and injuries , with persecutions , and death it self . for , when our saviour begins to discourse of happiness , what another kind of strain doth he speak of it in , than any of those philosophers who have so much obstructed the happiness of mans life by their voluminous writings and contentions about it . here we meet with no epicurean softness , which the sense of true vertue carried the minds of the more noble heathens above ; no rigid and incredible stoical paradoxes , that make men only happy by the change of names ; no aristotelean supposition of a prosperous life for vertue to shew its power in ; but here the only supposition made , is that which lies in a mans own breast viz. true goodness , and then let his condition be what it will , his happiness is consistent with it . for those above all other persons whom our saviour calls blessed , in the beginning of that excellent abstract of christianity , his sermon on the mount , are , not the rich and great men of the world , but those who to the poverty of their condition add that a of their spirits too , by being contented with the state they are in ; not those , who are full of mirth and jollity , that laugh away one half of their time , and sleep the rest ; but they who are b in a mournful condition , either by reason of their own sorrows , or out of compassion to others , or out of a general sense of their own imperfections , or the inconstancy of our present state : not those , who are ready enough to give , but unable to bear affronts , that think the lives of men a sacrifice small enough for any words of disgrace which they have given them ; but a the meek and patient spirit , that is neither apt to provoke , nor in a rage and madness when it is ; that values the rules of christianity above all the barbarous punctilioes of honour . not those , who are as impetuous in the pursuit of their designs , and as eager of tasting the fruits of them , as the thirsty traveller in the sands of arabia is of drinking the waters of a pleasant spring : but such who make b righteousness and goodness their meat and drink that which they hunger and thirst after , and take as much pleasure in as the most voluptuous epicure in his greatest dainties : not those , whose malice goes beyond their power , and want only enough of that to make the whole world a slaughter-house , and account racks and torments among the necessary instruments of governing the world ; c but such , who when their enemies are in their power , will not torment themselves by cruelty to them , but have such a sense of common humanity , as not only to commend pity and good nature to those above them , but to use it to those who are under them . not those whose hearts are as full of dissimulation and hypocrisie , as the others hands are of blood and violence , that care not what they are , so they may but seem to be good : but such whose inward integrity and d purity of heart , far exceeds the outward shew and profession of it : who honour goodness for it self , and not for the glory which is about the head of it . not those , who never think the breaches of the world wide enough till there be a door large enough for their own interests to go in at by them ; that would rather see the world burning , than one peg be taken out of their chariot-wheels : but such who would sacrifice themselves , like the brave e roman , to fill up the wide gulf which mens contentions have made in the world ; and think no legacy ought to be preserved more inviolable than that of peace , which our saviour left to his disciples . lastly , not those , who will do any thing rather than suffer , or if they suffer it shall be for any thing rather than f righteousness , to uphold a party , or maintain a discontented faction ; but such , who never complain of the hardness of their way , as long as they are sure it is that of righteousness ; but if they meet with reproaches and persecutions in it , they welcome them , as the harbingers of their future reward , the expectation of which makes the worst condition not only tolerable but easie to them . thus we see what kind of happiness it is , which the gospel promises ; not such a one as rises out of the dust , or is tost up and down with the motion of it ; but such whose never-failing fountain is above , and whither those small rivulets return , which fall down upon earth to refresh the minds of men in their passage thither ; but while they continue here , as the iews say of the water that came out of the rock , it follows them while they travel through this wilderness below . so that the foundation of a christians happiness is the expectation of a life to come , which expectation having so firm a bottom , as the assurance which christ hath given us by his death and sufferings , it hath power and influence sufficient to bear up the minds of men , against all the vicissitudes of this present state . . we have the most large and free offers of divine goodness in order to it . were it as easie for man to govern his own passions , as to know that he ought to do it ; were the impressions of reason and religion as powerful with mankind as those of folly and wickedness are , we should never need complain much of the misery of our present state , or have any cause to fear a worse to come . there would then be no condition here but what might be born with satisfaction to ones own mind ; and the life of one day led according to the principles of vertue and goodness would be preferred before a sinning immortality . but we have lost the command of our selves , and therefore our passions govern us ; and as long as such furies drive us , no wonder if our easè be little . when men began first to leave the uncertain speculations of nature , and found themselves so out of order , that they thought the great care ought to be to regulate their own actions ; how soon did their passions discover themselves about the way to govern them ! and they all agreed in this , that there was great need to do it , and that it was impossible to do it without the principles of vertue ; a for never was there any philosopher so bad , as to think any man could be happy without vertue ; even the epicureans themselves acknowledged it for one of their established maxims , that no man could live a pleasant life without being good : and supposing the multiplication of sects of philosophers about these things as far as varro thought it possible to . ( although there never vere so many , nor really could be upon his own grounds ) yet not one of all these but made it necessary to be vertuous , in order to being happy , and those who did not think vertue to be desired for it self , yet made it a necessary means for the true pleasure and happiness of our lives . but when they were agreed in this , that it was impossible for a vitious man to enjoy any true contentment of mind : they fell into nice and subtle disputes about the names and order of things to be chosen , and so lost the great effect of all their common principles . they pretended great cures for the disorders of mens lives , and excellent remedies against the common distempers of humane nature , but still the disease grew under the remedy , and their applications were too weak to allay the fury of their passions . it was neither the order and good of the universe , nor the necessity of events , nor the things being out of our power , nor the common condition of humanity , no nor that comfort of ill natured men , as carneades call'd it , the many companions we have in misery , that could keep their passions from breaking out when a great occasion was presented them . for he who had read all their discourses carefully , and was a great man himself , i mean cicero , upon the death of his beloved daughter , was so far from being comforted by them , that he was fain to write a consolation for himself , in which the greatest cure ( it may be ) was the diversion he found in writing it . but supposing these things had gone much farther , and that all wise men could have governed their passions as to the troubles of this life ( and certainly the truest wisdom lies in that ) . yet what had all this been to a preparation for an eternal state , which they knew little of , and minded less ? all their discourses about a happy life here , were vain , and contradicted by themselves ; when , after all their rants about their wise man being happy in the bull of phalaris , &c. they yet allow'd him to dispatch himself if he saw cause , which a wise man would never do , if he thought himself happy when he did it . so that unless god himself had given assurance of a life to come , by the greatest demonstrations of it in the death and resurrection of his son ; all the considerations whatever could never have made mankind happy . but by the gospel he hath taken away all suspicions and doubts concerning another state , and hath declared his own readiness to be reconciled to us upon our repentance , to pardon what hath been been done amiss , and to give that divine assistance whereby our wills may be governed , and our passions subdued , and upon a submission of our selves to his wise providence , and a sincere obedience to his laws , he hath promised eternal salvation in the life to come . . god hath given us the greatest assurance that these offers came from himself ; which the apostle gives an account of here , saying , that this salvation began at first to be spoken by our lord , and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him , god also bearing them witness by signs and wonders , &c. wherein we have all the satisfaction which the minds of reasonable men could desire as to these things : it might be justly expected , that the messenger of so great news to the world should be no mean and ordinary person ; neither was he , for the honour was as great in the person who brought it , as the importance was in the thing it self : no less than the eternal son of god came down from the bosom of his father , to rectifie the mistakes of mankind , and not only to shew them the way to be happy , but by the most powerful arguments to perswade them to be so . nay , we find all the three persons of the trinity here engaged in the great work of mans salvation ; it was first spoken by our lord , god also bearing them witness , and that with divers miracles and gifts of the holy ghost . so that not only the first revelation was from god , but the testimony to confirm that it was so , was from him too ; there being never so clear an attestation of any divine truths as was of the doctrine of the gospel . from whence it follows , that the foundation whereon our faith stands , is nothing short of a divine testimony , which god gave to the truth of that revelation of his will ; so vain are the cavils of those who say , we have nothing but meer probabilities for our faith , and do interpret that manner of proof which matters of fact are capable of , in a sense derogatory to the firmness of our christian faith. as though we made the spirit of god a paraclete or advocate in the worst sense , which might as well plead a bad as a good cause . no , we acknowledge , that god himself did bear witness to that doctrine deliver'd by our lord , and that in a most signal and effectual manner , for the conviction of the world , by those demonstrations of a divine power which accompanyed the first preachers of salvation by the gospel of christ. so that here the apostle briefly and clearly resolves our faith ; if you ask , why we believe that great salvation which the gospel offers ? the answer is , because it was declared by our lord , who neither could nor would deceive us : if it be asked , how we know that this was delivered by our lord ? he answers , because this was the constant doctrine of all his disciples , of those who constantly heard him , and conversed with him . but if you ask again , how can we know , that their testimony was infallible , since they were but men , he then resolves all into that , that god bare witness to them by signs and wonders , and divers miracles , and gifts of the holy ghost . and those persons whom these arguments will not convince , none other will. who are we , that should not think that sufficient which god himself thought so ! who are we , that dare question the certainty of that which hath had the broad seal of heaven to attest it ! can any thing make it surer than god himself hath done ? and can there be any other way more effectual for that end , than those demonstrations of a divine power and presence which the apostles were acted by ? those that cavil at this way of proof , would have done so at any other , if god had made choice of it : and those who will cavil at any thing , are resolved to be convinced by nothing ; and such are not fit to be discoursed with . . here are the most prevailing motives to perswade them to accept of these offers of salvation . there are two passions , which are the great hinges of government , viz. mens hopes and fears , and therefore all laws have had their sanctions suitable to these two in rewards and punishments : now there was never any reward which gave greater encouragement to hope , never any punishment which made fear more reasonable than those are which the gospel proposes . will ever that man be good , whom the hopes of heaven will not make so ? or will ever that man leave his sins whom the fears of hell will not make to do it ? what other arguments can we imagine should ever have that power and influence on mankind , which these may be reasonably supposed to have ? would you have god alter the methods of his providence , and give his rewards and punishments in this life ? but if so , what exercise would there be of the patience , forbearance and goodness of god towards wicked men ? must he do it as soon as ever men sin ? then he would never try whether they would repent and grow better ? or must he stay till they have come to such a height of sin ? then no persons would have cause to fear him , but such who are arrived at that pitch of wickedness : but how then should he punish them ? must it be by continuing their lives , and making them miserable ? but let them live , and they will sin yet further : must it be by utterly destroying them ? that to persons , who might have time to sin the mean while , ( supposing annibilation were all to be fear'd ) would never have power enough to deterr men from the height of their wickedness . so that nothing but the misery of a life to come , can be of force enough to make men fear god , and regard themselves ; and this is that which the gospel threatens to those that neglect their salvation , which it sometimes calls a everlasting fire , sometimes b the worm that never dies , sometimes c the wrath to come sometimes d everlasting destruction , all enough to fill the minds of men with horror at the apprehension ; and what then will the undergoing it do ? thence our saviour , reasonably bids men , e not fear them that can only kill the body , but are not able to kill the soul ; but rather fear him which is able to destroy both body and soul in hell . thus the gospel suggests the most proper object of fear , to keep men from sin , and as it doth that , so it presents likewise the most desireable object of hope to encourage men to be good ; which is no less than a happiness that is easier to hope to enjoy than to comprehend ; a happiness infinitely above the most ambitious hopes and glories of this world ; wherein greatness is added to glory , weight to greatness , and eternity to them all ; therefore call'd a a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory . wherein the joys shall be full and constant , the perception clear and undisturbed , the fruition with continual delight and continual desire . where there shall be no fears to disquiet , no enemies to allarm , no dangers to conquer , nothing shall then be , but an uninterrupted peace , an unexpressible joy , and pleasures for evermore . and what could be ever imagined more satisfactory to minds tired out with the vanities of this world , than such a repose as that is ? what more agreeable to the minds and desires of good men , than to be eased of this clog of flesh , and to spend eternity with the fountain of all goodness , and the spirits of just men made perfect ? what more ravishing delight to the souls that are purged , and b made glorious by the blood of the lamb , than to be singing hallelujahs to him that sits upon the throne , and to the lamb for ever and ever ? how poor and low things are those which men hope for in this world , compared with that great salvation , which the gospel makes so free a tender of ? what a mean thing is it to be great in this world , to be honourable and rich , i. e. to be made the object of the envy of some , the malice of others , and at last it may be , an instance of this worlds vanity ; and after all this to be for ever miserable ? but o the wisdom of a well-chosen happiness , that carries a man with contentment and peace through this life , and at last rewards him with a crown of everlasting felicity . thus we see the gospel proposes the most excellent means to make men happy , if they be not guilty of a gross neglect of it ; and if they be , that is their own act , and they must thank none but themselves if they be miserable . . but i pray , what reason can be given , since god is so tender of our happiness , that we should neglect it our selves ? which is the next thing to be spoken to . there are three sorts of things we think we have reason to neglect : such as are too mean , and unworthy our care , such as are so uncertain , that they will not recompence it , such as our own interest is not at all concerned in ; but i hope there are none who have an immortal soul , and the use of their understandings , can ever reckon their salvation under one of these . . is it too mean an employment for you to mind the matters of your eternal welfare ? is religion a beggarly and contemptible thing , that it doth not become the greatness of your minds to stoop to take any notice of it ? hath god lost his honour so much with you , that his service should be the object of mens scorn and contempt ? but what is it which these brave spirits think a fit employment for themselves , while they despise god and his worship ? is it to be curiously dressed , and make a fine shew , to think the time better spent at the glass than at their devotions ? these indeed are weighty imployments , and fit in the first place to be minded , if we were made only to be gazed upon . is it meerly to see plays , and read romances , and to be great admirers of that vain and frothy discourse which all persons account wit but those which have it ? this is such an end of mans life which no philosopher ever thought of . or is it to spend time in excesses and debaucheries , and to be slaves to as many lusts as will command them ? this were something indeed , if we had any other name given us but that of men. or lastly , is it to have their minds taken up with the great affairs of the world , to be wise in considering , careful in managing the publick interest of a nation ? this is an employment , i grant , fit for the greatest minds , but not such which need at all to take them off from minding their eternal salvation . for the greatest wisdom is consistent with that , else religion would be accounted folly , and i take it for granted ; that it is never the truly wise man but the pretender that entertains any mean thoughts of religion . and such a one uses the publick interest no better than he doth religion , only for a shew to the world , that he may carry on his own designs the better . and is this really such a valuable thing for a man to be contented to cheat himself of his eternal happiness , that he may be able to cheat the world , and abuse his trust ? i appeal then to the consciences of all such who have any sense of humanity ; and the common interest of mankind , setting aside the considerations of a life to come , whether to be just and sober , vertuous and good , be not more suitable to the design of humane nature , than all the vanities and excesses , all the little arts and designs which men are apt to please themselves with ? and if so , shall the eternal happiness which follows upon being good , make it less desireable to be so ? no surely , but if god had required any thing to make us happy , which had been as contrary to our present interest as the precepts of christianity are agreeable to it ; yet the end would have made the severest commands easie , and those things pleasant which tend to make us happy . . are these things so uncertain , that they are not fit for a wise man to be solicitous about them ? if they will come with a little care , they will say , they are destreable , but too much will unfit them for greater business ? but do men believe these things to be true or not , when they say thus ? if they be true , why need they fear their uncertainty ? if they be certain , what pains and care can be too great about them ? since a little will never serve to obtain them . let but the care and diligence be proportionable to the greatness of the end , and the weight of the things , and you never need fear the want of a recompence for all your labour . but suppose you say , if you were fully convinced of their certainty you would look more after them . what hinders you from being so convinced ? is it not a bad disposition of mind which makes you unwilling to enquire into them ? examine things with a mind as free as you would have it , judge seriously according to the reason of things , and you will easily find the interests of a life to come are far more certain , as well as more desireable than those of this present life . and yet the great uncertainty of all the honours and riches of this world , never hinder the covetous or ambitious person from their great earnestness in pursuit of them . and shall not then all the mighty arguments which god himself hath made use of to confirm to us , the certainty of a life to come , prevail upon us to look more seriously after it ? sh●ll the unexpressible love of the father , the unconceiveable sufferings of the son of god , and the miraculous descent and powerful assistance of the holy ghost have no more impression on our minds , than to leave us uncertain of a future state ? what mighty doubts and suspicions of god , what distrusts of humane nature , what unspeakable ingratitude , and unaccountable folly lies at the bottom of all this uncertainty ? o fools , and slow of heart to believe , not only what the prophets have spoken , but what our lord hath declared , god himself hath given testimony to , and the holy ghost hath confirmed ! . but is not your interest concerned in these things ? is it all one to you whether your souls be immortal or no ? whether they live in eternal felicity , or unchangeable misery ? is it no more to you , than to know what kind of bables are in request at the indies , or whether the customs of china or iapan are the wiser , i. e. than the most trifling things , and the remotest from our knowledge . but this is so absurd and unreasonable to suppose , that men should not think themselves concerned in their own eternal happiness and misery , that i shall not shew so much distrust of their understandings to speak any longer to it . . but if notwithstanding all these things our neglect still continues , then a there remains nothing but a fearful looking for of judgement , and the fiery indignation of god. for there is no possibility of escaping if we continue to neglect so great salvation . all hopes of escaping are taken away , which are only in that , which men neglect ; and those who neglect their only way to salvation , must needs be miserable . how can that man ever hope to be saved by him whose blood he despises and tramples under foot ? what grace and favour can he expect from god , who hath done despight unto the spirit of grace ? that hath cast away with reproach and contempt the greatest kindness and offers of heaven . what can save him that resolves to be damned , and every one does so , who knows he shall be damned , if he lives in his sins , and yet continues to do so ? god himself , in whose only pity our hopes are , hath irreversibly decreed that he will have no pity upon those , who despise his goodness , slight his threatnings , abuse his patience , and sin the more because he offers to pardon . it is not any ●elight that god takes in the miseries of his creatures , which makes him punish them ; but shall not god vindicate his own honour against obstinate and impenitent sinners ? he declares before hand , that he is far from delighting in their ruine , and that is the reason he hath made such large offers , and used so many means to make them happy ; but if men resolve to despise his offers , and slight the means of their salvation , shall not god be just without being thought to be cruel ? and we may assure our selves , none shall ever suffer , beyond the just desert of their sins , for punishment as the apostle tells us in the words before the text , is nothing but a just recompence of reward . and if there were such a one proportionable to the violation of the law delivered by angels ; how shall we think to escape who neglect a more excellent means of happiness , which was delivered by our lord himself ? if god did not hate sin , and there were not a punishment belonging to it , why did the son of god die for the expiation of it ? and if his death were the only means of expiation , how is it possible that those who neglect that , should escape the punishment not only of their other sins , but of that great contempt of the means of our salvation by him ? let us not then think to trifle with god , as though it were impossible a being so merciful and kind , should ever punish his creatures with the miseries of another life : for , however we may deceive our selves , a god will not be mocked , for whatsoever a man soweth , that shall he reap ; for he that soweth to his flesh , shall of the fl●sh reap corruption : but he that soweth to the spirit , shall of the spirit reap life everlasting . i shall only propound some few considerations , to prevent so great a neglect as that of your salvation is . . consider , what it is you neglect , the offer of eternal happiness , the greatest kindness that ever was expressed to the world , the foundation of your present peace , the end of your beings , the stay of your minds , the great desire of your souls , the utmost felicity that humane nature is capable of . is it nothing to neglect the favour of a prince , the kindness of great men , the offers of a large and plentiful estate ; but these are nothing to the neglect of the favour of god , the love of his son , and that salvation which he hath purchased for you . nay , it is not a bare neglect , but it implies in it a mighty contempt not only of the things offered , but of the kindness of him who offers them . if men had any due regard for god or themselves , if they had any esteem for his love , or their own welfare , they would be much more serious in religion than they are . when i see a person wholly immersed in affairs of the world , or spending his time in luxury and vanity , can i possibly think that man hath any esteem of god or of his own soul ? when i find one very serious in the pursuit of his designs in the world , thoughtful and busie , subtle in contriving them , careful in managing them ; but very formal , remiss and negligent in all affairs of religion , neither inquisitive about them , nor serious in minding them ; what can we otherwise think , but that such a one doth really think the things of the world better worth looking after , than those which concern his eternal salvation . but consider , before it be too late , and repent of so great folly . value an immortal soul as you ought to do , think what reconciliation with god , and the pardon of sin is worth , slight not the dear purchase which was bought at no meaner a rate than the blood of the son of god , and then you cannot but mind the great salvation which god hath tendered you . . consider , on what terms you neglect it , or what the things are for whose sake you are so great enemies to your own salvation . have you ever found that contentment in sin or the vanities of the world , that for the sake of them , you are willing to be forever miserable ? what will you think of all your debaucheries , and your neglects of god and your selves , when you come to die ? what would you give then ( if it were in your power to redeem your lost time ) that you had spent your time less to the satisfaction of your sensual desires , and more in seeking to please god ? how uncomfortable will the remembrance be of all your excesses , oaths , injustice and profaneness , when death approaches , and judgement follows it ? what peace of mind will there then be to those who have served god with faithfulness , and have endeavoured to work out their salvation , though it hath been with fear and trembling ? but what would it then profit a man to have gained the whole world , and to lose his own soul ? nay , what unspeakable losers must they then be , that lose their souls for that which hath no value at all , if compared with the world. . consider , what follows upon this neglect , not only the loss of great salvation ; but the incurring as great damnation for it . the scripture describes the miseries of the life to come , not meerly by negatives , but by the most sensible and painful things . if destruction be dreadful , what is everlasting destruction ? if the anguish of the soul , and the pains of the body be so troublesom , what will the destruction be both of body and soul in hell ? if a serpent gnawing in our bowels be a representation of an insupportable misery here , what will that be of the worm that never dies ? if a raging and devouring fire , which can last but till it hath consumed a fading substance , be in its appearance so amazing , and in its pain so violent , what then will the enduring be of that wrath of god , which shall burn like fire , and yet be everlasting ? consider then of these things , while god gives you time to consider of them ; and think it an inestimable mercy that you have yet time to repent of your sins , to beg mercy at the hands of god , to redeem your time , to depart from iniquity , to be frequent in prayer , careful of your actions , and in all things obedient to the will of god , and so god will pardon your former neglects , and grant you this great salvation . sermon vi. preached on good-fryday before the lord mayor , &c. hebrews xii . iii. for , consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself , lest ye be weary , and faint in your minds . it hath never yet been so well with the world , and we have no great reason to hope it ever will be so ; that the best of things , or of men , should meet with entertainment in it , suitable to their own worth and excellency . if it were once to be hoped , that all mankind would be wise and sober , that their judgements would be according to the truth of things , and their actions suitable to their judgements ; we might then reasonably expect that nothing would be valued so much as true goodness , nothing so much in contempt and disgrace as impiety and profaneness . but if we find it much otherwise in the age we live in ; we have so much the less cause to wonder at it ; because it hath been thus , in those times we might have thought would have been far better than our own . i mean those times and ages , wherein there were not only great things first spoken and delivered to mankind , but examples as great as the things themselves ; but these did so little prevail on the stupid and unthankful world , that they among whom the son of god did first manifest himself , seem'd only solicitous to make good one prophesic concerning him , viz. that he should be despised and rejected of men . and they who suffer'd their malice to live as long as he did , were not contented to let it dye with him ; but their fury increases as the gospel does : and wherever it had spread it self , they pursue it with all the rude clamors , and violent persecutions which themselves or their factors could raise against it . this we have a large testimony of , in those iewish christians to whom this epistle was written ; who had no sooner embraced the christian religion , but they were set upon by a whole army of persecutions . heb. . . but call to remembrance the former days , in which after ye were illuminated , ye endured a great fight of afflictions . as though the great enemy of souls , and therefore of christians , had watched the first opportunity to make the strongest impression upon them , while they were yet young and unexperienced ; and therefore less able to resist so sharp an encounter . he had found how unsuccessful the offer of the good things of this world had been with their lord and master ; and therefore was resolved to try what a severer course would do with all his followers . but the same spirit by which he despised all the glories of the world , which the tempter would have made him believe he was the disposer of ; enabled them with a mighty courage , and strange transports of joy , not only to bear their own share of reproaches and afflictions , but a part of theirs who suffer'd with them , v. , . but lest through continual duty , occasion'd by the hatred of their persecutors , and the multitude of their afflictions ; their courage should abate , and their spirits saint ; the apostle finds it necessary , not only to put them in mind of their former magnanimity ; but to make use of all arguments that might be powerful with them , to keep up the same vigour and constancy of mind in bearing their sufferings , which they had at first . for he well knew , how much it would tend to the dishonour of the gospel , as well as to their own discomfort ; if after such an early proof of a great and undaunted spirit , it should be said of them , as was once of a great roman captain , ultima primis cedebant ; that they should decline in their reputation as they did in their years ; and at last sink under that weight of duty which they had born with so much honour before . therefore , as a genetal in the field , after a sharp and fierce encounter at first , with a mighty resolution by his souldiers ; when he finds by the number and fresh recruits of the enemy , that his smaller forces are like to be born down before them ; and through meer weariness of fighting are ready to turn their backs , or yield themselves up to the enemies mercy ; lie conjures them by the honour they have gain'd , and the courage they had already expressed , by their own interest , and the example of their leaders , by the hopes of glory , and the fears of punishment , that they would bear the last shock of their enemies force , and rather be the trophies of their courage than of their triumphs : so does our apostle , when he finds some among them begin to debate , whether they had best to stand it out or no ; he conjures them , . by the remembrance of their own former courage , whereby they did bear as sharp tryals as these could be , with the greatest chearfulness and constancy ; and what could they gain by yielding at last , but great dishonour to themselves , that they had suffer'd so long to no purpose , unless it were to discover their own weakness and inconstancy . . by the hopes of a reward which would surely follow their faithfulness ; v. , . cast not away therefore your confidence , which hath great recompence of reward . for ye have need of patience , that after ye have done the will of god , ye might receive the promise : and the time will not be long ere ye come to enjoy it , v. . but if ye draw back , you lose all your former labours , for he who alone is able to recompence you , hath said , that if any man draw back , my soul shall have no pleasure in him , v. . and then from the example of himself , and all the genuine followers of christ , but we are not of them who draw back unto perdition ; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul , v. . but lest these examples should not be enough to perswade them ; he conjures them by the name of all those who were as eminent for the greatness of their minds as the strength of their faith ; who have despised the frowns as well as the smiles of the world ; and were not discouraged by the severest tryals from placing their confidence in god , and their hopes in a life to come ; and all this done by persons who had not received the promise : heb. . . and could there be a greater disparagement to the clearness of that light we enjoy above them , if we only grew fainter by it ? and therefore in the beginning of this chapter he encourages them by that army of martyrs which had gone before them , by that cloud of witnesses which did both direct and refresh them , that they would lay aside every thing which was apt to oppress or dishearten them , but especially their sinful fears , which they were so easily betray'd by , and so run with patience the race that was set before them , v. . but , saith he , if none of these will prevail with you , there is an example yet behind , which ought above all others to heighten your courage , and that is , of the captain of your salvation , the author and sinisher of your faith , under whom you serve , and from whom you expect your reward ; and as caesar once said to his souldiers , when he saw them ready to retreat out of the field , videte quem , & quo loco imperatorem deserturi estis . remember what kind of general you forsake , and in what place you leave him : one whom you have vow'd your lives and your service to , one who hath thought nothing too dear , which was to be done for your good , one that will be ready to reward the least service you can do for him , one that is ready to assist you to the utmost in what you undertake , one that hath already undergone far more for your sakes , than ever you can do for his ; therefore , consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself , lest ye be weary , and faint in your minds . in which words we have represented to us , the unparallel'd example of courage and patience under sufferings , in our lord and saviour ; and the great influence that it ought to have on all those who are call'd by his name , that they would not dishonour so excellent a pattern of enduring sufferings , by weakness or dejection of mind . christianity is a religion which above all others does arm men against all the contingencies and miseries of the life of man : yea , it makes them serviceable to the most advantageous purpo●es that the greatest blessings can be designed for . it raises the minds of men higher than barely to consider , the common condition of humane nature , the unavoidableness of such things which are out of our own power , and the unreasonableness of tormenting our selves about the things which are so , and that most mens conditions in the world as to their contentment , depends more upon their minds , than their outward circumstances ; though these are things very fit for us as men to consider and make use of ; yet they do not reach to that height , which the consideration of a life to come , and the tendency of all our sufferings here to the inhancement of our future glory may raise us to . especially considering not only the weight of the arguments in themselves , but the force they receive from the example of him , who for the joy that was set before him , endured the cross , and despised the shame , and is set down at the right hand of the throne of god. by which mighty instance we find , that the sufferings of this life are so far from being inconsistent with the joys of another , that he who is a the captain of salvation , was made perfect through sufferings , and therefore none of his followers have cause to be dejected under them . but that we may the better understand the force of this argument , we shall consider , . what those things were which he endured . . from whom he suffer'd them , it was the contradiction of sinners against himself . . in that way and manner he underwent them . . for what ends he did it . and when we have considered these , we shall see the influence this example of christs sufferings ought to have upon our constancy and patience : which will be the most useful improvement of it to us . . what those things were which christ endured ; which are here comprehended under those words , the contradiction of sinners . it is agreed by the best expositors , both greek and latin , that under this phrase of the contradiction of sinners , the whole history of our saviours sufferings is comprehended . all the injuries , reproaches , false accusations , all the cruelties , indignities , and violence , which were offer'd him , from the time of his publick appearance to his expiring upon the cross , being undergone by him , by the malice of unreasonable men , may be call'd the contradiction of sinners . for the sense of this word extends as well to actions as words ; and the sum of all that which our saviour suffer'd from them , may be reduced under these heads . . the ill entertainment of his doctrine . . the disparagement of his miracles . . the violence offer'd to his person . . the ill entertainment of his doctrine ; which must needs seem very strange to those who do not consider what a difficult access the clearest reason hath to the minds of such who are governed by interest and prejudice . though all the prophesies concerning the messias were fulfilled in him ; though the expectations of the people were great at that time concerning the appearance of him that was to redeem his people ; though all the characters of time , place , and person , did fully agree to what was foretold by the prophets ; though his doctrine were as becoming the son of god to reveal , as the sons of men to receive ; though the unspot●ed innocency of his life were so great , as made him weary of his own that betray'd him : yet because he came not with the pomp and splendor which they expected , they despise his person , revile his doctrine , persecute his followers , and contrive his ruine . what could have been imagined more probable , than that the iewish nation , which had waited long in expectation of the messias coming , should have welcom'd his approach with the greatest joy , and receiv'd the message he brought with a kindness only short of that which he shewed in coming among them ? was it nothing to be eased of that heavy burden of the ceremonial law , which neither they nor their fathers were able to bear ? and that god was willing to exchange the chargeable and troublesome service of the temple , for the more reasonable and spiritual worship of himself ? was it nothing to have the promises of a land which now groaned under the weight of its oppressions , turned into those of an eternal state of bliss and immortality ? and to change the lamps of the temple , for the glorious appearance of the sun of righteousness ? was it nothing to have an offer of peace and reconciliation with god made them , after they had suffer'd so much under the sury of his displeasure ? was a meer temporal deliverance by some mighty conquerour from the subjection they were in to the roman power , so much more valuable a thing , than an eternal redemption from the powers of hell and the grave ? are the pomps and vanities of this present life , such great things in gods account , that it was not possible for his son to appear without them ? nay , how unsuitable had it been for one who came to preach humility , patience , self-denyal , and contempt of the world , to have made an ostentation of the state and grandeur of it ? so that either he must have changed his doctrine , or rendred himself lyable to the suspicion of seeking to get this world by the preaching of another . and if his doctrine had been of another kind , he might have been esteemed a great person among the iews , but not the son of god , or the promised messias , in whom all nations of the earth should be blessed . which surely they would never have thought themselves to have been , in one , who must have subdued the neighbour nations to advance the honour of his own . but since the son of god thought fit to appear in another manner than they expected him , they thought themselves too great to be saved by so mean a saviour . if he had made all the kingdoms of the earth to have bowed under him , and the nations about them to have been all tributaries to them ; if ierusalem had been made the seat of an empire as great as the world it self , they would then have gloried in his name , and entertained whatever he had said , whether true or false , with a wonderful veneration . but truth in an humble dress meets with few admirers ; they could not imagine so much power and majesty could ever shroud it self under so plain a disguise . thus christ a came to his own , and his own received him not . yea , those that should have known him the best of all others ; those who frequently conversed with him , and heard him speak as never man spake , and saw him do what never man did , were yet so blinded by the meanness of his parentage and education , that they baffle their own reason , and persist in their infidelity , because they knew the place and manner of his breeding ; the names of his mother and his brethren and sisters ; a are they not all with us ? whence then hath this man all these things ? as though , is not this the carpenters son , had been sufficient answer to all he could say or do . . the disparagement of his miracles . since the bare proposal of his doctrine , though never so reasonable , could not prevail with them to believe him to be the son of god , he offers them a further proof of it by the mighty works which were wrought by him . and though the more ingenuous among them were ready to acknowledge , b that no man could do the things which he did , unless god were with him : yet they who were resolved to hear and see , and not understand ; when they found it not for their credit , to deny matters of fact so universally known and attested , they seek all the means to blast the reputation of them that may be . sometimes raising popular insinuations against him , that he was a man of no austere life , a friend of publicans and sinners , one that could choose no other day to do his works on , but that very day wherein god himself did rest from his ; and therefore no great regard was to be had to what such a one did . when these arts would not take , but the people found the benefit of his miracles , in healing the sick , curing the blind and the lame , feeding the hungry ; then they undervalue all these in comparison with the wonders that were wrought by moses in the wilderness . if he would have made the earth to open her mouth , and swallow up the city and the power of rome ; if he would have fed a mighty army with bread from heaven , in stead of feeding some few thousands with very small provisions ; if in stead of raising one lazarus from the grave , he would have raised up their sampsons , and their davids , their men of spirit and conduct , whose very presence would have put a new life , into the hearts of the people ; if in stead of casting out devils , he would have cast out the romans , whom they hated the worse of the two : if he would have set himself to the cure of a distempered state , instead of healing the maladies of some few inconsiderable persons : if instead of being at the expense of a miracle to pay tribute , he would have hinder'd them from paying any at all ; then a second moses would have been too mean a title for him , he could have been no less than the promised messias , the son of god. but while he imploy'd his power another way , the demonstration of it made them hate him the more ; since they thought with themselves what strange things they would have done with it for the benefit of their country ; and therefore express the greatest malice against him , because he would not imploy it as they would have him . from thence , they condemn his miracles as only some effects of a magical skill ; and say , he dispossessed the lesser devils by the power of him that was the prince among them . so unworthy a requital did they make for all the mighty works which had been done among them ; which , as our saviour saith , a if they had been done in tyre and sidon , they would have repented long ago in sack cloth and ashes . . but although all this argued a strange spirit of contradiction in them to all the designs for their own good ; yet the malice from whence that rose , would not stop here ; for as they had long contrived his ruine , so they watched only an opportunity to effect it . which his frequent presence at ierusalem seemed to put into their hands , but his reputation with the people made them fearful of embracing it . therefore they imploy their agents to deal privately with one of his disciples who might be fittest for their design ; and to work upon his covetous humour by the promise of a reward , to bring him to betray his master with the greatest privacy into their hands . this iudas undertakes , knowing the place and season of his masters retirements , not far from the city , where they might with the greatest secrecy and safety seize upon his person . which contrivance of theirs our saviour was not at all ignorant of ; but prepares himself and his disciples for this great encounter . he institutes his solemn supper , to be perpetually observed in remembrance of his death and sufferings , after which he discourses admirably with his disciples , to arm them against their future sufferings ; and prays that most divine prayer , st. iohn . which he had no sooner finished , but he goes with his disciples to the usual place of his retirement in a garden at the foot of the mount of olives . and now begins the blackest scene of sufferings that ever was acted upon humane nature . which was so great , that the son of god himself expresseth a more than usual apprehension of it ; which he discovered by the agony he was in , in which he sweat b drops of blood ; by the earnestness of his prayer , falling upon his knees , and praying thrice , saying , c o my father , if it be possible , let this cup pass from me ; nevertheless not as i will , but as thou wilt . surely , this cup must needs have a great deal of bitterness in it , which the son of god was so earnest to be freed from . if there had been nothing in it but what is commonly incident to humane nature , as to the apprehensions of death or pain , it seems strange , that he who had the greatest innocency , the most perfect charity , the freest resignation of himself , the fullest assurance of the reward to come , should express a greater sense of the horror of his sufferings , than thousands did , who suffer'd for his sake . but now was the hour come wherein the son of god was to be made a sacrifice for the sins of men ; wherein he was to bear our griefs , and carry our sorrows , when he was a to be wounded for our transgressions , and bruised for our iniquities ; now b his soul was exceeding sorrowful even unto death ; for now c the hour of his enemies was come , and the power of darkness . and accordingly they improve it ; they come out against him as a malefactor , with swords and staves , and having seized his person , being betray'd into their hands by one of his disciples , they carry him to the high priests house , where his professed enemies presently condemn him of d blasphemy , and not content with this , they express the greatest contempt of him , for they spit in his face , they buffet him , and smite him with the palms of their hands , they mock him , and bid him prophesie who it was that smote him ; so insolent was their malice grown , and so spightful was their indignation against him . and so fearful were they , lest he should escape their hands , that the very next morning early , they send him bound to the roman governour , to have the sentence pronounced against him , to whom they accuse him of sedition and treason ; but pilate upon examination of him declares , e he found no fault in him ; which made them heap more unreasonable calumnies upon him , being resolved by what means soever to take away his life . nay , the price of the blood of the son of god was fallen so low with them , that they preferred the life of a known seditious person , and a murtherer before him . and when pilate being unsatisfied , asked still , f what evil he had done ? they continue their importunity without any other answer but crucifie him and making up what wanted in justice and reason in the loudness of their clamors . and at last seeing the sury and madness of the people , with the protestation of his own innocency as to his blood , he delivers him up to the people ; and now he is stripped , and scourged , and mock'd , with a crown of thorns , a scarlet robe , and a reed in his hand : all the indignities they could think of , they put upon him . but though it pleased them , to have him exposed to all the ignominies imaginable , yet nothing would satisfie them but his blood ; and therefore he is led forth to be crucified , and though so lately scourged and weakened by his sorrows , yet he is made to carry his own cross ( at least through the city ) for no other death could satisfie them , but the most ignominious , and painful . and when he was brought to the place of crucifixion , they nail his hands and feet to the cross , and while he was hanging there , they deride and mock him still , they devide his garments before his face , give him gall and vinegar to drink , and the last act of violence committed upon him , was the piercing of his side , so that out of his pericardium issued a both water and blood . thus did the son of god suffer at the hands of unreasonable men ; thus was the blood of that immaculate lamb split by the hands of violence ; and he who left the bosom of his father , to bring us to glory , was here treated as if he had been unworthy to live upon the earth . . but that which yet heightens these sufferings of christ , is to consider , from whom he suffer'd these things , it was from sinners ; which is as much as to say , from men , if the word were taken in the largest sense of it ; for all have sinned ; but being taken by us in opposition to othermen , so it implies a greater height of wickedness in these than in other persons . but this is not here to be consider'd absolutely , as denoting what kind of persons he suffer'd from , but with a particular respect to the nature of their proceedings with him , and the obligations that lay upon them to the contrary . so that the first shews the injustice and unreasonableness of them ; the second , their great ingratitude , considering the kindness and good will which he expressed towards them . . the injustice and unreasonableness of their proceedings against him . it is true indeed , ( what socrates said to his wife , when she complained that he suffer'd unjustly , what , saith he , and would you have me suffer justly ? ) it is much greater comfort to the person who does suffer , when he does it unjustly but it is a far greater reflection on those who were the causes of it . and that our blessed saviour did suffer with the greatest injustice from these men , is apparent from the falseness and weakness of all the accusations which were brought against him . to accuse the son of god for blaphemy , in saying , he was so , is as unjust as to condemn a king for treason , because he saith he is a king : they ought to have examined the grounds on which he call'd himself so ; and if he had not given pregnant evidences of it , then to have passed sentence upon him as an impostor and blasphemer . if the thing were true , that he was what he said , the son of god , what horrible guilt was it in them , to imbrue their hands in his blood ? and they found he always attested it , and now was willing to lay down his life to confirm the truth of what he said . this surely ought at least to have made them more inquisitive into what he had affirmed ; but they allow him not the liberty of a fair tryal , they hasten and precipitate the sentence , that they might do so the execution . if he were condemned as a false prophet ; ( for that seems to be the occasion of the sanhedrim meeting to do it , to whom the cognisance of that did particularly belong ) why do they not mention what it was he had foretold , which had not come to pass ; or what reason do they give why he had usurped such an office to himself ? if no liberty were allowed under pain of death for any to say , that they were sent from god , how was it possible for the messias ever to appear , and not be condemned ? for the expectation of him was , that he should be a great person immediately sent from god , for the delivery of his people . and should he be sent from god , and not say that he was so ? for how then could men know that he was ? so that their way of proceeding with him , discovers it self to be manifestly unjust , and contrary to their own avowed expectations . neither were they more successful in the accusation of him before pilate ; why did not the witnesses appear to make good the charge of sedition and treason against him ? where were the proofs of any thing tending that way ? nay , that which abundantly testified the innocency of our saviour , as to all the matters he was accused of , was that the roman governour , after a full examination of the cause , declares him innocent , and that not only once but several times ; and was fully satisfied in the vindication he made of himself , so that nothing but the fear of what the iews threatned , viz. accusing him to caesar ( a thing he had cause enough otherwise to be afraid of ) which made him at last yield to their importunity . but there was one circumstance more which did highly discover the innocency of christ , and the injustice of his sufferings , which was iuda's confession and end ; the man who had betray'd his lord , and had receiv'd the wages of his iniquity ; but was so unquiet with it , that in the time when his other disciples durst not own him , he with a great impetus returns to them with his money , throws it among them with that sad farewel to them all , a i have sinned , in that i have betrayed the innocent blood . what could have been said more for his vindication at this time than this was , by such a person as iudas , one who had known our saviour long , and had been the fittest instrument , if any guilt could have been fasten'd upon him , to have managed the accusation against him ; but the anxiety of his mind was too great for what he had done already , to live to do them any longer service ; for either his grief suffocated him , or his guilt made him hang himself ; for the words will signifie either . neither can it be said by any modern iews , that all the testimony we have of these things is from his own disciples ; but that certainly they had some greater matter to accuse him of ; which we now have lost . for how is it possible to conceive , that a matter so important as that was , should be lost by those of their own nation , who were so highly concerned to vindicate themselves in all places , as soon as the gospel was spread abroad in the world ? for the guilt of this blood was every where by the christians charged upon them ; and their prodigious sufferings afterwards were imputed wholly by them to the shedding of that blood of christ , which by a most solemn imprecation they had said , should be upon them and their children . besides , how comes celsus , who personates a iew opposing christianity , to mention no other accusations against him but those recorded in the gospel ; and a origen challenges him or any other person to charge him with any action which might deserve punishment . and which is very observable , porphyrie , one of the most inveterate enemies of christianity , and that took as much pains to write against it as any , and had more learning to do it with , yet in his book of the philosophy of oracles , as b st. augustin tells us , quotes an oracle wherein were these words concerning christ , and what became of him after his death ? it saith , that his soul was immortal , c viri pietate praestantissimi est illa anima , and that it was the soul of a most excellent person for piety ; and being then asked , why he was condemned ? the answer only is , that the body ( of the best ) is exposed to weakning torments , but the soul rests in heavenly habitations . so that on no account can this contradiction appear to be otherwise than an act of great injustice and cruelty , and therefore must needs be the contradiction of sinners . . this contradiction of theirs to christ was an act of high ingratitude . it was a sharp but very just rebuke which the iews received from our saviour , when they were once ready to stone him ; d many good works have i shewed you from my father , for which of those works do you stone me ? the very same might have been applyed to his judges and accusers ; when they were about to crucifie him . for what was his whole life after he appeared publickly , but a constant design of doing good ? his presence had far more vertue for the curing all bodily distempers , than the pool of bethesda among the iews , or the temples of aesculapius among the gentiles . what wonders were made of very small things done by other persons , as the cure of a blind man by vespasian ! when such multitudes of far more certain and considerable cures , can hardly keep up the reputation of any thing extraordinary in him . but though his kindness was great to the bodies of men , where they were fit objects of pity and compassion ; yet it was far greater to their souls , that being more agreeable to the design of his coming into the world ; for the other tended to raise such an esteem of him as might make him the more successful in the cure of their souls . and to shew , that this was his great business , wherever he comes , he discourses about these things , takes every opportunity that might be improved for that end , refuses no company he might do good upon , and converses not with them with the pride and arrogance of either the pharisees or philosophers , but with the greatest meekness , humility and patience . how admirable are his more solemn discourses , especially that upon the mount , and that wherein he takes leave of his disciples ! how dry and insipid are the most sublime discourses of the philosophers compared with these ! how clearly doth he state our duties , and what mighty encouragements does he give to practise them ! how forcibly does he perswade men to self-denyal and contempt of the world ! how excellent and holy are all his precepts ! how serviceable to the best interest of men in this life and that to come ! how suitable and desireable to the souls of good men are the rewards he promises ! what exact rule of righteousness hath he prescribed to men , in doing as they would be done by ! with what vehemency doth he rebuke all hypocrisie and pharisaism ! with what tenderness and kindness does he treat those that have any real inclinations to true goodness ! with what earnestness does he invite , and with what love doth he embrace all repenting sinners ! with what care doth he instruct , with what mildness doth he reprove , with what patience doth he bear with his own disciples ! lastly , with what authority did he both speak and live , such as commanded a reverence , where it did not beget a love ! and yet after a life thus spent , all the requital he met with , was to be reproached , despised , and at last crucified . o the dreadful effects of malice and hypocrisie ! for these were the two great enemies which he always proclaimed open war with ; and these at first contrived , and at last effected his cruel death . what baseness , ingratitude , cruelty , injustice , ( and what not ? ) will those two sins betray men to , when they have once taken possession of the hearts of men ! for we can find nothing else at the bottom of all that wretched conspiracy against our saviour ; but that his doctrine and design was too pure and holy for them ; and therefore they study to take him away who was the author of them . . we consider , in what way and manner , our saviour underwent all these sufferings ; and this as much as any thing is here propounded to our consideration . for it is not only who , or what , but in what manner he endured the contradiction of sinners , that we ought to consider , to prevent fainting and dejection of mind . so another apostle tells us , a that christ suffered for us , leaving us an example , that we should follow his steps ; who did no sin , neither was guile found in his mouth ; who when he was reviled , reviled not again : when he suffered , he threatned not , but committed himself to him that judged righteously . he uses none of those ranting expressions which none of the patientest persons in the world were accustomed to ; of bidding them laugh in phalaris his bull ; and when they were racked with pains , to cry out , nil agis dolor : he tells them not , that it is their duty to have no sense of torments , and to be jocund and pleasant when their flesh is torn from them , or nailed to a cross ; if this be any kind of fortitude , it is rather that of a gladiator than of a wise man or a christian. the worst of men either through a natural temper of body , or having hardned themselves by custom , have born the greatest torments with the least expression of grief under them . and panaetius , one of the wisest of the stoicks , is so far from making insensibleness of pain the property of a wise man , that he makes it not the property of a man. the inferiour creatures are call'd brutes from their dulness and insensibleness , and not meerly from want of reason , any further than that one follows from the other : b bruta existimantur animalium quibus cor durum riget , saith pliny , those animals are call'd brutes which have the hardest hearts : and the nearer any of them approach to the nature of man , the more apprehensive they are of danger , and the more sensible of pain ; thence c scaliger saith of the elephant , that it is maximabellua , sed non maximè bruta , though it be the greatest beast , it is the least a brute . stupidity then under sufferings can be no part of the excellency of a man ; which in its greatest height is in the beings the most beneath him . but when danger is understood , and pain felt , and nature groans under it , then with patience and submission to undergo it , and to conquer all the strugglings of nature against it , that is the duty and excellency of a christian. if to express the least sense of grief and pain , be the highest excellency of suffering , the macedonian boy that suffer'd his flesh to be burnt by a coal , till it grew offensive to all about him , without altering the posture of his arm , lest he should disturb alexanders sacrifice , out-did the greatest philosophers of them all . possidonius his pitiful rant over a fit of the gout , so highly commended by pompey and d tully ; o pain , it is to no purpose ; though thou beest troublesome , i will never confess thou art evil ; falls extremely short of the resolution of the macedonian boy , or any of the spartan youths , who would not in the midst of torments so much as confess them troublesome . and what a mighty revenge was that , that he would not confess it to be evil , when his complaint that it was troublesome , was a plain argument that he thought it so . it is not then the example of zeno or cleanthes , or the rules of stoicism , which dionysius heracleotes , in a fit of the stone complained of the solly of , that are to be the measures of patience , and courage in bearing sufferings ; but the example and precepts of our lord and saviour , who expressed a great sense of his sufferings , but withal the greatest submission under them . when a lipsius lay a dying , and one of the by-standers knowing how conversant he had been in the stoicks writings , began to suggest some of their precepts to him , vana sunt ista , said he , i find all those but vain things ; and beholding the picture of our saviour near his bed , he pointed to that , and cryed , haec vera est patientia : there is the true pattern of patience . for , notwithstanding that agony he was in immediately before his being betray'd , when he sees the officers coming towards him , he asks them whom they seek for ? and tells them , i am he ; which words so astonished them , b that they went back , and fell upon the ground : thereby letting them understand how easie a matter it was for him to have escaped their hands ; and that it was his own free consent , that he went to suffer , for he knew certainly before hand , the utmost that he was to undergo , and therefore it was no unreasonable impetus , but a settled resolution of his mind to endure all the contradictions of sinners . when he was spit upon , mocked , reproached and scourged , none of all these could draw one impatient expression from him . the malice and rage of his enemies did not at all provoke him ; unless it were to pity and pray for them . and that he did , with great earnestness in the midst of all his pains : and though he would not plead for himself to them , yet he pleads for them to god ; father , forgive them , for they know not what they do . how much more divine was this , than the admired theramenes among the greeks , who being condemned to dye by the thirty tyrants , when he was drinking off his cup of poyson , said , he drank that to critias , one of his most bitter enemies , and hoped he would pledge it shortly . socrates seemed not to express seriousness enough at least , when he bid one of his friends , when he was dying , offer up a cock to aesculapius for his deliverance . aristides and phocion among the greeks came the nearest to our saviours temper , when one pray'd , that his country might have no cause to remember him when he was gone , and the other charged his son , to forget the injuries they had done him ; but yet by how much the greater the person and office was of our blessed saviour , than of either of them , by how much the cruelty and ignominy , as well as pain was greater which they exposed him to , by how much greater concernment there is to have such an offence pardon'd by one that can punish it with eternal misery , than not revenged by those , who though they may have will , have not always power to execute ; so much greater was the kindness of our saviour to his enemies , in his prayer upon the cross , than of either of the other , in their concernment for that ungrateful city , that had so ill requited their services to it . thus when the son of god was oppressed , and afflicted , a he opened not his mouth , but only in prayer for them , who were his bitter enemies ; and though nothing had been more easie than for him to have cleared himself from all their accusations , who had so often baffled them before ; yet he would not now give them that suspicion of his innocency , as to make any apology for himself ; but committed himself to god that judges righteously , and was brought as a lamb to the slaughter , and as a sheep before her shearers was dumb , so he opened not his mouth . and the reason thereof was , he knew what further design for the good of mankind was carrying on by the bitterness of his passion , and that all the cruel usage he underwent , was that he might be a sacrifice of atonement so the sins of the world. which leads to the last thing propounded to our consideration . . which is , the causes why god was pleased to suffer his son to endure such contradiction of sinners against himself . i know it is an easie answer to say , that god had determin'd it should be so , and that we ought to enquire no further : but sure such an answer can satisfie none who consider , how much our salvation depends upon the knowledge of it , and how clear and express the scripture is in assigning the causes of the sufferings of christ. which though as far as the instruments were concerned in it , we have given an account of already , yet considering the particular management of this grand affair by the care of divine providence , a higher account must be given of it , why so divine and excellent a person should be exposed to all the contempt and reproach imaginable , and after being made a sacrifice to the tongues and rods of the people , then to dye a painful and ignominious death ? so that allowing but that common care of divine providence , which all sober heathens acknowledged , so transcendent sufferings as these were , of so holy and innocent a person , ought to be accounted for , in a more than ordinary manner ; when they thought themselves concerned to vindicate the justice of gods providence in the common calamities of those who are reputed to be better than the generality of mankind . but the reasons assigned in that common case will not hold here , since this was a person immediately sent from god upon a particular message to the world , and therefore might plead an exemption by vertue of his ambassage from the common arrests and troubles of humane nature . but it was so far otherwise , as though god had designed him on purpose to let us see how much misery humane nature can undergo . some think themselves to go as far as their reason will permit them ; when they tell us , that he suffer'd all these things to confirm the truth of what he had said , and particularly the promise of remission of sins , and that he might be an example to others , who should go to heaven by suffering afterwards , and that he might , being touched with the feeling of our infirmities here , have the greater pity upon us now he is in heaven . all these i grant to have been true and weighty reasons of the sufferings of christ , in subordination to greater ends , but if there had been nothing beyond all this , i can neither understand why he should suffer so deeply as he did , nor why the scripture should insist upon a far greater reason more than upon any of these ? i grant , the death of christ did confirm the truth of his doctrine , as far as it is unreasonble to believe that any one who knew his doctrine to be false , would make himself miserable to make others believe it ; but if this had been all intended , why would not an easier and less ignominious death have served ? since he who would be willing to die to confirm a falshood , would not be thought to confirm a truth by his death , because it was painful and shameful . why , if all his sufferings were designed as a testimony to others , of the truth of what he spake , were the greatest of his sufferings , such as none could know the anguish of them but himself , i mean his agony in the garden , and that which made him cry out upon the cross : my god , my god , why hast thou forsaken me ? why were not his miracles enough to confirm the truth of his doctrine ? since the law of moses was received without his death , by the evidence his miracles gave that he was sent from god ; since the doctrine of remission of sins had been already deliver'd by the prophets , and received by the people of the iews ; since those who would not believe for his miracles sake , neither would they believe though they should have seen him rise from the grave , and therefore not surely because they saw him put into it . but of all things , the manner of our saviours sufferings seems least designed to bring the world to the belief of his doctrine , which was the main obstacle to the entertainment of it among the men of greatest reputation for wisdom and knowledge . for it was a christ crucified , which was to the iews a stumbling block , and to the greeks foolishness . had the apostles only preached that the son of god had appeared from heaven , and discovered the only way to bring men thither , that he assumed our nature for a time to render himself capable of conversing with us , and therein had wrought many strange and stupendious miracles , but after he had sufficiently acquainted the world with the nature of his doctrine , he was again assumed up into heaven ; in all probability , the doctrine might have been so easily received by the world , as might have saved the lives of many thousand persons , who dyed as martyrs for it . and if it had been necessary that some must have dyed to confirm it , why must the son of god himself do it ? when he had so many disciples who willingly sacrificed their lives for him , and whose death would on that account have been as great a confirmation of the truth of it as his own . but if it be alledged further , b that god now entring into a covenant with man for the pardon of sin , the shedding of the blood of christ was necessary as a federal rite to confirm it . i answer , if only as a federal rite , why no cheaper blood would serve to confirm it but that of the son of god ? we never read that any covenant was confirmed by the death of one of the contracting parties ; and we cannot think that god was so prodigal of the blood of his son , to have it shed only in allusion to some ancient customs . but if there were such a necessity of alluding to them , why might not the blood of any other person have done it ? when yet all that custom was no more , but that a sacrifice should be offer'd , and upon the parts of the sacrifice devided , they did solemnly swear and ratifie their covenant . c and if this be yielded them , it then follows from this custom , that christ must be consider'd as a sacrifice in his death ; and so the ratification of the covenant must be consequent to that oblation which he made of himself upon the cross. besides , how incongruous must this needs be , that the death of christ the most innocent person in the world , without any respect to the guilt of sin , should suffer so much on purpose to assure us , that god will pardon those who are guilty of it ? may we not much rather infer the contrary , considering the holiness and justice of gods nature ; if he dealt so severely with the green tree , how much more will he with the dry ? if one so innocent suffer'd so much , what then may the guilty expect ? if a prince should suffer the best subject he hath , to be severely punished , could ever any imagine that it was with a design to assure them that he would pardon the most rebellious ? no ; but would it not rather make men afraid of being too innocent , for fear of suffering too much for it ? and those who seem very careful to pre●erve the honour of gods justice , in not punishing one for anothers faults , ought likewise to maintain it in the punishing of one who had no fault at all to answer for . and to think to escape this by saying , that to such a person such things are calamities , but no punishments , is to revive the ancient exploded stoicism , which thought to reform the diseases of mankind by meer changeing the names of things , though never so contrary to the common sense of humane nature : which judges of the nature of punishments by the evils men undergo , and the ends they are designed for . and by the very same reason that god might exercise his dominion on so innocent a person as our saviour was , without any respect to sin as the moving cause to it , he might lay eternal torments on a most innocent creature ( for degrees and continuance do not alter the reason of things ) and then escape with the same evasion , that this was no act of injustice in god , because it was a meer exercise of dominion . and when once a sinner comes to be perswaded by this that god will pardon him , it must be by the hopes that god will shew kindness to the guilty , because he shews so little to the innocent ; and if this be agreeable to the justice and holiness of gods nature , it is hard to say what is repugnant to it . if to this it be said , that christs consent made it no unjust exercise of dominion in god towards him : it is easily answered , that the same consent will make it less injustice in god to lay the punishment of our sins upon christ , upon his undertaking to satisfie for as ; for then the consent supposes a meritorious cause of punishment ; but in this case the consent implyeth none at all . and we are now enquiring into the reasons of such sufferings , and consequently of such a consent ; which cannot be imagined but upon very weighty motives , such as might make it just in him to consent , as well as in god to inflict . neither can it be thought that all the design of the sufferings of christ , was to give us an example and an incouragement to suffer our selves ; though it does so in a very great measure , as appears by the text it self . for the hopes of an eternal reward for these short and light afflictions , ought to be encouragement enough , to go through the miseries of this life in expectation of a better to come . and the cloud of witnesses , both under the law and the gospel , of those who have suffer'd for righteousness sake , ought to make no one think it strange , if he must endure that , which so many have done before him , and been crowned for it . and lastly , to question whether christ could have pity enough upon us in our sufferings , unless he had suffer'd so deeply himself ; will lead men to distrust the pity and compassion of almighty god , because he was never capable of suffering , as we do . but the scripture is very plain and full ( to all those who rack not their minds to pervert it ) in assigning a higher reason than all these of the sufferings of christ , viz. that a christ suffered for sins , the just for the unjust ; that b his soul was made an offering for sin , and that the lord therefore as on a sacrifice of atonement , c laid on him the iniquities of us all : that , through the eternal spirit , d he offer'd himself without spot to god , and did appear to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself ; that he was made a propitiation for our sins ; that , e he laid down his life as a price of redemption for mankind ; that , f through his blood we obtain redemption , even the forgiveness of sins , which in a more particular manner is attributed g to the blood of christ , as the procuring cause of it . that he dyed h to reconcile god and us together ; and that i the ministery of reconciliation , is founded k on gods making him to be sin for us who knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him : and that we may not think that all this reconciliation respects us and not god ; he is said l to offer up himself to god ; and for this cause to be a mediator of the new testament , and m to be a faithful high-priest in things pertaining to god , to make reconciliation for the sins of the people : n and every high-priest , taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to god ; not appointed by god in things meerly tending to the good of men ; which is rather the office of a prophet than a priest. so that from all these places it may easily appear , that the blood of christ is to be looked on as a sacrifice of atonement for the sins of the world. not as though christ did suffer the very same which we should have suffer'd , for that was eternal death as the consequent of guilt in the person of the offender , and then the discharge must have been immediately consequent upon the payment , and no room had been left for the freeness of remission , or for the conditions required on our parts ; but that god was pleased to accept of the death of his son , as a full , perfect , sufficient sacrifice , oblation , and satisfaction for the sins of the world ; as our church expresseth it ; and in consideration of the sufferings of his son , is pleased to offer pardon of sin upon sincere repentance , and eternal life upon a ●…y obedience to his will. thus much for the things we are to consider concerning the contradiction of sinners which christ endured against himself . nothing now remains , but the influence that ought to have upon us , lest we be weary and faint in our minds . for which end i shall suggest two things . . the vast disproportion between christs sufferings and ours . . the great encouragement we have from his sufferings , to bear our own the better . . the vast disproportion between christs sufferings and our own . our lot is fallen into suffering times ; and we are apt enough to complain of it . i will not say it is wholly true of us , what the moralist saith generally of the complaints of men , non quia dura sed quia molles patimur ; that it is not the hardness of our conditions so much as the softness of our spirits which makes us complain of them . for i must needs say , this city hath smarted by such a series and succession of judgements which few cities in the world could parallel in so short a time . the plague hath emptied its houses , and the fire consumed them ; the war exhausted our spirits , and it were well if peace recovered them . but still these are but the common calamities of humane nature , things that we ought to make account of in the world ; and to grow the better by them . and it were happy for this city ; if our thankfulness and obedience were but answerable to the mercies we yet enjoy : let us not make our condition worse by our fears ; nor our fears greater than they need to be : for no enemy can be so bad as they . thanks be to god our condition is much better at present than it hath been ; let us not make it worse by fearing it may be so . complaints will never end till the world does ; and we may imagine that will not last much longer ; when the city thinks it hath trade enough , and the country riches enough . but i will not go about to perswade you that your condition is better than it is , for i know it is to no purpose to do so ; all men will believe as they feel . but suppose our condition were much worse than it is ; yet what were all our sufferings compared with those of our saviour for us ? the sins that make us smart , wounded him much deeper ; they pierced his side , which only touch our skin , we have no cause to complain of the bitterness of that cup which he hath drunk off the dreggs of already . we lament over the ruins of a city , and are revived with any hopes of seeing it rise out of the dust ; but christ saw the ruins that sin caused in all mankind , he undertook the repairing them , and putting men into a better condition than before : and we may easily think what a difficult task he had of it ; when he came to restore them who were delighted in their ruins , and thought themselves too good to be mended . it is the comfort of our miseries , ( if they be only in this life ) that we know they cannot last long ; but that is the great aggravation of our saviours sufferings , that the contradiction of sinners continues against him still . witness , the atheism , i cannot so properly call it , as the antichristianism of this present age ; wherein so many profane persons act over again the part of the scribes and pharisees ; they slight his doctrine , despise his person , disparage his miracles , contemn his precepts , and undervalue his sufferings . men live as if it were in defiance to his holy laws ; as though they feared not what god can do , so much as to need a mediator between him and them . if ever men tread under foot the son of god , it is when they think themselves to be above the need of him ; if ever they count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing , it is not only when they do not value it as they ought , but when they exercise their profane wits upon it . blessed saviour ! was it not enough for thee to bear the contradiction of sinners upon earth ; but thou must still suffer so much at the hands of those whom thou dyedst for , that thou mightest bring them to heaven ? was it not enough for thee to be betrayed on earth , but thou must be defied in heaven ? was it not enough for thee to stoop so low for our sakes , but that thou shouldest be trampled on because thou didst it ? was the ignominious death upon the cross too small a thing for thee to suffer in thy person , unless thy religion be contemned , and exposed to as much shame and mockery as thy self was ? unhappy we , that live to hear of such things ! but much more unhappy if any of our sins have been the occasion of them : if our unsuitable lives to the gospel have open'd the mouths of any against so excellent a religion . if any malice and revenge , any humour and peevishness , any pride or hypocrisie , any sensuality and voluptuousness , any injustice , or too much love of gain , have made others despise that religion which so many pretend to , and so few practise . if we have been in any measure guilty of this , as we love our religion , and the honour of our saviour , let us endeavour by the holiness and meekness of our spirits , the temperance and justice of our actions , the patience and contentedness of our minds , to recover the honour of that religion which only can make us happy , and our posterity after us . . what encouragement we have from the sufferings of christ , to bear our own the better ; because we see by his example that god deals no more hardly with us , than he did with his own son , if he laies heavy things upon us . why should we think to escape , when his own son underwent so much ? if we meet with reproaches , and ill usage , with hard measure , and a mean condition , with injuries and violence , with mockings and affronts , nay with a shameful and a painful death , what cause have we to complain , for did not the son of god undergo all these things before us ? if any of your habitations have been consumed , that you have been put to your shifts where to lodge your selves , or your families ; consider , that a though the foxes have holes , and the birds of the air have nests , yet the son of man had not whereon to lay his head . if your condition be mean and low , think of him , b who being in the form of god , took upon him the form of a servant ; and c though he was rich , yet for your sakes he became poor , that through his poverty ye might be made rich . if you are unjustly defamed and reproached , consider what contumelies and disgraces the son of god underwent for you . if you are in pain and trouble , think of his agony and bloody sweat , the nailing of his hands and feet to the cross , to be a sacrifice for the expiation of your sins . never think much of undergoing any thing , whereby d you may be conformable to the image of the son of god , knowing this , e that if ye suffer with him , ye shall also be glorified together . and you have never yet set a true estimate and value upon things , if you f reckon the sufferings of this present . life worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed . which glory ought always to bear up our minds under our greatest afflictions here ; and the thoughts of that , will easily bring us to the thoughts of his sufferings , who g by his own blood purchased an eternal redemption for us . therefore , consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself , lest ye be weary , and faint in your minds . sermon vii . preached before the king , january . / . jude v. ii. and perished in the gainsaying of corah . among all the dismal consequences of that fatal day wherein the honour of our nation suffered together with our martyr'd soveraign , there is none which in this place we ought to be more concerned for , than the dishonour which was done to religion by it . for if those things which were then acted among us , had been done among the most rude and barbarous nations , though that had been enough to have made them for ever thought so ; yet they might have been imputed to their ignorance in matters of civility and religion : but when they were committed not only by men who were called christians , but under a pretence of a mighty zeal for their religion too , men will either think that religion had , which did give encouragement to such actions , or those persons extremely wicked , who could make use of a pretence of it for things so contrary to its nature and design . and on which of these two the blame will fall , may be soon discovered , when we consider that the christian religion , above all others , hath taken care to preserve the rights of soveraignty , by a giving unto caesar the things that are caesars , and to make resistance unlawful by declaring b that those who are guilty of it shall receive to themselves damnation . but as though bare resistance had been too mean and low a thing for them ( notwithstanding what christ and his apostles had said ) to shew themselves to be christians of a higher rank than others ; they imbrue their hands in the blood of their soveraign for a demonstration of their piety , by the same figure by which they had destroyed mens rights to defend their liberties , and fought against the king for preservation of his person . but the actions of such men could not have been so bad as they were ; unless their pretences had been so great , for there can be no higher aggravation of a wicked action , than for men to seem to be religious in the doing of it . if the devil himself were to preach sedition to the world , he would never appear otherwise than as an angel of light : his pretence would be unity , when he designed the greatest divisions ; and the preservation of authority , when he laid the seeds of rebellion . but we might as well imagine that the god of this world ( as the devil is sometime called ) should advance nothing but peace and holiness in it , as that christianity should give the least countenance to what is contrary to either of them . yet the wickedness of men hath been so great upon earth , as to call down heaven it self to justifie their impieties , and when they have found themselves unable to bear the burden of them , they would sain make religion do it . such as these we have a description of in this short , but smart epistle , viz. men who pretended inspirations and impulses for the greatest villanies ; who believed it a part of their saintship to despise dominions , and speak evil of dignities ; who thought the grace of god signified very little , unless it served to justifie their most wicked actions . these in all probability were the followers of simon magus the leviathan of the primitive church , c who destroyed all the natural differences of good and evil , a and made it lawful for men in case of persecution , to forswear their religion . b the great part of his doctrine being that his disciples need not be afraid of the terrours of the law , for they were free to do what they pleased themselves , because salvation was not to be expected by good works , but only by the grace of god : no wonder then , that such as these did turn the grace of god into lasciviousness : and when it proved dangerous not to do it , would deny their religion to save themselves . for they had so high opinions of themselves , that they were the only saints , that as c epiphanius tells us , they thought it the casting pearls before swine , to expose themselves to danger before the heathen governours ; by which they not only discovered what a mighty value they set upon themselves , but what mean and contemptible thoughts they had of that authority which god had established in the world . but this they would by no means allow , for they thought all the governments of the world to be nothing else d but the contrivance of some evil spirits to abridge men of that liberty which god and nature had given them : and this is that speaking evil of dignities which they are charged with , not only by our apostle here , but by st. peter before him . although the phrase used by e st. peter , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may be taken ( by the use of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the first of f maccabees ) not for the bare contempt of authority , expressed by reviling language , but for an open resistance of it ; which the other is so natural an introduction to , that those who think and speak contemptibly of government , do but want an occasion to manifest that their actions would he as bad as their thoughts and expressions are . and from hence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here in the words of the text is made use of to express one of the most remarkable seditions we ever read of : viz. that of corah and his company against moses and aaron ; whose punishment for it did not deter these persons who went under the name of christian , from joyning in seditious practices to the great dishonour of christianity , and their own ruine . for therefore the apostle denounces a woe against them in the beginning of the verse , and speaks of their ruine as certain as if they had been consumed by fire , or swallowed up by the earth , as corah and his accomplices were ; and they perished in the gainsaying of corah . in the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the aorist , saith grotius , is taken for the future , or present , and so implying that these courses did tend to their misery and ruine , and would unavoidably bring it upon them . if the evidence in history had been clear of the carpocratians joyning with the iews in the famous rebellion of barchochebas , wherein such multitudes of christians as well as heathens were destroyed in africa , aegypt , and other places , and the time of it had agreed with the time of writing this epistle , i should then have thought that this had been the rebellion here spoken of ; for all the actors in it were destroyed by the roman power , and some of the chief of them made publick examples of justice for the deterring of others from the like practices . but however this be , we find these persons here charged with a sin of the same nature , with the gainsaying of core , and a judgement of the same nature , as the consequent of the sin ; for they perished in the gainsaying , &c. and therefore we shall consider the words . . as relating to the fact of corah and his company . . as implying as great displeasure of god under the gospel against the same kind of sin , as he discovered in the immediate destruction of those persons who were then guilty of it . . as relating to the fact of corah and his company ; and so the words lead us to the handling . . the nature of the faction which was raised by them . . the judgement that was inflicted upon them for it . . for understanding the nature of the faction , we must enquire into the design that was laid , the persons who were engaged in it , the pretences that were made use of for it . . the design that was laid for that , and all other circumstances of the story , we must have resort to the account that is given of it , numb . . where we shall find that the bottom of the design was the sharing of the government among themselves , which it was impossible for them to hope for , as long as moses continued as a king in iesurun , for so he is called , deut. . . him therefore they intend to lay aside , but this they knew to be a very difficult task , considering what wonders god had wrought by him in their deliverance out of egypt , what wisdom he had hitherto shewed in the conduct of them , what care for their preservation , what integrity in the management of his power , what reverence the people did bear towards him , and what solemn vows and promises they had made of obedience to him . but ambitious and factious men are never discouraged by such an appearance of difficulties ; for they know they must address themselves to the people , and in the first place perswade them that they manage their interest against the usurpation of their governours . for by that means they gain upon the peoples affections , who are ready to cry them up presently as the true patriols and defenders of their liberties against the encroachment of princes : and when they have thus insinuated themselves into the good opinion of the people ; groundless suspicions , and unreasonable fears and jealousies will pass for arguments and demonstrations . then they who can invent the most popular lies against the government are accounted the men of integrity , and they who most diligently spread the most infamous reports , are the men of honesty , because they are farthest from being flatterers of the court. the people take a strange pride , as well as pleasure , in hearing and telling all the faults of their governours ; for in doing so they flatter themselves in thinking they deserve to rule much better than those which do it . and the willingness they have to think so of themselves , makes them misconstrue all the actions of their superiours to the worse sense , and then they find out plots in every thing , upon the people . what ever is done for the necessary maintenance of government , is suspected to be a design meerly to exhaust the people to make them more unable to resist . if good laws be made , these are said by factious men to be only intended for snares for the good people , but others may break them and go unpunished . if government be strict and severe , then it is cruel and tyrannical , if mild and indulgent , then it is remiss and negligent . if laws be executed , then the peoples liberties be oppressed ; if not , then it were better not to make laws , than not to see them executed . if there be wars , the people are undone by taxes ; if there be peace , they are undone by plenty . if extraordinary judgements befall them , then they lament the sins of their governours , and of the times , and scarce think of their own . if miscarriages happen ( as it is impossible always to prevent them ) they charge the form of government with them , which all sorts are subject to . nay , it is seldom that governours escape with their own faults , the peoples are often laid upon them too . so here , numb . . . moses is charged with not carrying them into canaan , when it was their own sins which kept them thence . yea , so partial have the people generally been against their rulers , when swayed by the power of faction , that this hath made government very difficult and unpleasing ; for what ever the actions of princes are , they are liable to the censures of the people . their bad actions being more publick , and their good therefore suspected of design ; and the wiser governours are , the more jealous the people are of them . for alwaies the weakest part of mankind are the most suspicious ; the less they understand things , the more designs they imagine are laid for them , and the best counsels are the soonest rejected by them . so that the wisest government can never be secure from the jealousies of the people , and they that will raise a faction against it will never want a party to side with them . for when could we ever have imagined a government more likely to be free from this , than that which moses had over the people of israel ? he being an extraordinary person for all the abilities of government ; one bred up in the egyptian court , and in no mean degree of honour , being called the the son of pharaohs daughter , one of great experience in the management of affairs , of great zeal for the good of his country , as appeared by the tenderness of his peoples interest in their deliverance out of egypt ; one of great temper and meekness above all men of the earth ; one who took all imaginable care for the good establishment of laws among them ; but above all these one particularly chosen by god for this end , and therefore furnished with all the requisites of a good man , and an excellent prince : yet for all these things a dangerous sedition is here raised against him , and that upon the common grounds of such things , viz. usurpation upon the peoples rights , arbitrary government , and ill management of affairs ; usurpation upon the peoples rights , v. . the faction makes a remonstrance asserting the priviledges of the people against moses and aaron , ye take too much upon you , seeing all the congregation are holy every one of them , and the lord is among them ; wherefore then lift you up your selves above the congregation of the lord : as though they had said , we appear only in behalf of the fundamental liberties of the people both civil and spiritual ; we only seek to retrench the exorbitances of power , and some late innovations which have been among us ; if you are content to lay aside your power which is so dangerous and offensive to gods holy people , we shall then sit down in quietness ; for alas it is not for our selves that we seek these things ( what are we ? ) but the cause of gods people is dearer to us than our lives , and we shall willingly sacrifice them in so good a cause . and when moses afterwards sends for the sons of eliah to come to him , they peremptorily refuse all messages of peace , and with their a men of the sword mentioned , v. . they make votes of non-addresses , and break off all treaties with him , and declare these for their reasons , that he did dominando dominari , as some render it , exercise an arbritary and tyrannical power over the people , that he was guilty of breach of the trust committed to him , for he promised a to bring them into a land flowing with milk and honey , or give them inheritance of fields and vineyards , but he had not done it , and instead of that only , deceives the people still with fair promises , and so puts out their eyes that they cannot see into the depth of his designs . so that now by the ill management of his trust , the power was again devolved into the hands of the people , and they ought to take account of his actions . by which we see the design was under very fair and popular pretences to devest moses of his government , and then they doubted not but such zealous patriots as they had shewed themselves , should come to have the greatest share in it ; but this which they most aimed at , must appear least in view , and only necessity and providence must seem to cast that upon them , which was the first true motive they had to rebel against moses and aaron . . the persons who were engaged in it . at first they were only some discontented levites who murmured against moses and aaron , because they were not preferred to the priesthood , and of these corah was the chief . r. solomo● observes , that the reason of corahs discontent , was , that elizaphan the son of uzziel , of the younger house to izhar from whom corah descended , was preferred before him by moses to be prince over the sons of b kohath . corah being active and busie in his discontents , had the opportunity of drawing in some of the sons of reuben , for they pitched their tents near each other , c both on the south side of the tabernacle of the congregation ; and these were discontented on the account of their tribe having lost the priviledge of promogeniture . thus what ever the pretences are , how fair and popular soever in the opposition men make to authority , ambition and private discontents are the true beginners of them : but these must be covered over with the deepest dissimulation , with most vehement protestations to the contrary , nothing must be talked of but a mighty zeal for religion , and the publick interest . so d iosephus tells us concerning corah , that while he carried on his own ambitious designs , with all the arts of sedition and a popular eloquence , insinuating into the peoples minds strange suggestions against moses his government , as being a meer politick design of his to enslave the people of god , and advance his own family and interest , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he would seem to regard nothing but the publick good . if fair pretences , and glorious titles will serve to cheat the people into their own miseries , and the sad effects of rebellion ; they shall never want those who will enslave them for the sake of liberty , undo them for the publick good , and destroy them with designs of reformation . for nothing is more popular than rebellion in the beginning ; nothing less in the issue of it . and the only true reason that it is ever so , is from the want of wisdom and judgement in the generality of mankind , who seldom see to the end of things , and hardly distinguish between the names and nature of them , till their own dear bought experience hath taught them the difference . sedition is of the nature , and hath the inseparable properties of sin ; for it is conceived with pleasure , brought forth with pain , and ends in death and misery . nothing enters upon the stage with a braver shew and appearance , but however prosperous for a time it may continue , it commonly meets with a fatal end . but it is with this sin as to this world , as it is with others as to the next ; men when they are betrayed into them , are carried away and transported with the pleasing temptations , not considering the unspeakable misery that follows after them . so that what the devils advantage is in order to the ruine of mens souls , is the advantage of seditious persons over the less understanding people ; they both tempt with an appearance of good , and equally deceive them which hearken to them . but as we still find , that notwithstanding all the grave admonitions , the sober counsels , the rational discourses , the perswasive arguments which are used to deter men from the practice of sin , they will still be such fools to yield to the devils temptations against their own welfare : so , neither the blessings of a continued peace , nor the miseries of an intestine war , neither the securitie of a settled government , nor the constant danger of innovations will hinder men of fiery and restless spirits from raising combustions in a nation , though themselves perish in the flames of them . this we find here was the case of corah and his company ; they had forgotten the groans of their captivity in egypt , and the miracles of their deliverance out of it , and all the faithful services of moses , and aaron ; they considered not the difficulties of government , nor the impossibility of satisfying the ambitious desires of all pretenders ; they regarded not that god from whom their power was derived , nor the account they must give to him for their resistance of it : nothing but a full revenge upon the government can satisfie them , by leaving no means unattempted for its overthrow , though themselves be consumed by the fall of it . it were happy for government if these turbulent spirits could be singled out from the rest in their first attempts ; but that is the usual subtilty of such men , when they find themselves aimed at , they run into the common herd , and perswade the people that they are equally concerned with themselves in the present danger , that though the pretence be only against faction and sedition , the design is the slavery and oppression of the people . this they manage at first by grave nods , and secret whispers , by deep sighs , and extatick motions , by far fetched discourses , and tragical stories , till they find the people capable of receiving their impressions , and then seem most unwilling to mention that which it was at first their design to discover . by such arts as these corah had prepared , as a iosephus tells us , almost the whole camp of israel for a popular tumult , so that they were like to have stoned moses before he was aware of it ; and it seems the faction had gained a mighty interest among the people , when although god so severely and remarkably punished the heads of it , yet the very next day all the congregation of the children of israel murmured against moses and aaron , saying , b te have killed the people of the lord. what a mark of gods people was sedition grown among them ! when these men were accounted saints in spight of heaven , and martyrs , though god himself destroyed them . they were men who were only sanctified by rebellion : and shewed no other fruits of their piety but disobedience to authority . but the danger had not been so great , how loud soever the complaints had been , if only the ruder multitude had been gained to the favour of corah and his party : for these wanted heads to manage them , and some countenance of authority to appear under ; and for this purpose they had drawn to their faction princes of the assembly , c famous in the congregation , men of renown , i. e. members of the great council of the nation . whom moses was wont to call and advise with about the publick affairs of it ; such who sate in comitiis senatorum , as paul. fagius tells us , therefore said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 such as were called to the great assembly which sate in d parliament at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation , which was the place where they met together . these were the heads of the tribes , and the captains of thousands , and the men of the greatest fame and authority among the people whom moses assembled together for advice and counsel , as often as he saw just occasion for it . and as far as i can find were distinct from the great sanhedrin , which seemed to be rather a constant court of iudicature which sate to receive appeals from inferiour courts , and to determine such difficult causes which were reserved peculiarly for it , as about apostasy of a whole tribe , the case of false prophets , and the like . but these men did far exceed the whole number of the sanhedrin ; and the heads of the tribes , and the elders of israel were summoned together upon any very weighty occasion , by moses both before and after the institution of the sanhedrin . and now since the faction had gained so great strength by the accession of so great a number of the most leading men among the people , we may expect they should soon declare their intentions , and publish the grounds of their entring into such a combination against moses . . which is the next thing to be spoken to , viz. the colours and pretences under which these persons sought to justifie the proceedings of the faction . which were these two , . the asserting the rights and liberties of the people in opposition to the government of moses . . the freeing themselves from the encroachments upon their spiritual priviledges , which were made by the usurpations of aaron and the priesthood . . the asserting the rights and liberties of the people in opposition to the government of moses . a is it a small thing , say they , that thou hast brought us up out of a land that floweth with milk and honey , to kill us in the wilderness , except thou make thy self altogether a prince over us ? and before , their charge was , b that moses and aaron took too much upon them , in lifting up themselves above the congregation of the lord. which c iosephus more at large explains , telling us that the great accusation of moses was , that out of his ambition and affectation of power , he had taken upon himself the government of the people without their consent , that he made use of his pretence of familiarity with god only for a politick end , that by this means he debarred the people of that liberty which god had given them , and no man ought to take from them , that they were all a d free-born people , and equally the children of abraham , and therefore there was no reason they should depend upon the will of a single person , who by his politick arts had brought them to the greatest necessities , that he might rule them the better ; wherefore corah , as though he had been already president of a high-court of iustice upon moses their king , determines , that it was necessary for the common-wealth , that such enemies to the publick interest should be discovered and punished ; lest if they be let alone in their usurpations of power , they declare themselves open enemies when it will be too late to oppose them . there were then two great principles among them by which they thought to defend themselves . . that liberty and a right to power is so inherent in the people , that it cannot be taken from them . . that in case of usurpation upon that liberty of the people , they may resume the exercise of power , by punishing those who are guilty of it . . that liberty , and a right to power , is inseparable from the people ; libertatis patrocinium suscipiunt , saith calvin , upon corah and his company ; and i believe they will be found to be the first assertors of this kind of liberty that ever were in the world . and happy had it been for us in this nation , if corah had never found any disciples in it . for what a blessed liberty was this which corah aimed at , viz. to change one excellent prince , as moses was , for tyrants , besides corah and the sons of reuben ? what just and equal liberty was it which moses did deprive them of ? it was only the liberty of destroying themselves , which all the power he he had could hardly keep them from . could there be any greater liberty than delivering them out of the house of bondage ? and was not moses the great instrument in effecting it ? could there be greater liberty than for their whole nation to be preserved from all the designs of their enemies , to enjoy their own laws , and matters of iustice to be duly administred among them ? and had they not all these under the governof moses ? what means then this out-cry for liberty ? is it that they would have had no government at all among them , but that every one might have done what he pleased himself ? this indeed were a desireable liberty , if a man could have it alone : but when every one thinks that he is but one , though he be free ; and every one else is as free as he , but though their freedom be equal to his , his power is not equal to theirs ; and therefore to bring things to a more just proportion , every one must part with some power for a great deal of security . if any man can imagine himself in such a state of confusion , which some improperly call a state of nature ; let him consider , whether the contentment he could take in his own liberty and power to defend himself , would ballance the fears he would have of the injury which others in the same state might be able to do him . not that i think meer fear made men at first enter into societies , for there is a natural inclination in mankind to it , and one of the greatest pleasures of humane life lies in the enjoyment of it . but what other considerations incline men to , fear makes reasonable , though men part with some supposed liberty for the enjoyment of it . so that the utmost liberty is destroyed by the very nature of government , and nothing can be more unreasonable than for men to quarrel with government for that , which they cannot enjoy and the preservation of themselves together . which alone makes the desire of power reasonable , and if the preservation of our selves in our rights and properties may be had without it , all that the want of liberty signifies , is , that men have all the conveniences of power without the trouble and the cares of it . and if this be not a more desirable liberty than the other , let any rational man judge . the pretence of liberty then in this sense against government , is , that men are fools in taking the best care to preserve themselves , that laws are but instruments of slavery , and every single man is better able to defend himself , than the united strength of a people in society is to defend him . and this kind of liberty we may justly think will be desired by none but mad-men , and beasts of prey . it follows then , that what liberty is inconsistent with all government , must never be pleaded against any one sort of it . but is there then so great a degree of liberty in one mode of government more than another , that it should be thought reasonable to disturb government , meerly to alter the form of it ? would it have been so much better for the people of israel to have been governed by the men here mentioned , than by moses ? would not they have required the same subjection and obedience to themselves , though their commands had been much more unreasonable than his ? what security can there be that every one of these shall not be worse in all respects than him whom they were so willing to lay aside ; and if one be thought troublesome , what liberty and ease is there when their name is legion ? so that the folly of these popular pretences is as great as the sin in being perswaded by them . and it may be they have not thought amiss who have attributed a great part of that disturbance of the peace of kingdoms , under a pretence of popular government , to an unjust admiration of those greek and roman writers , who have unreasonably set up liberty in opposition to monarchy . but some of the wisest of them have given us a truer account of these things , and have told us , that it was impossible the roman state could have been preserved longer , unless it had submitted to an a imperial power ; for the popular heats and factions were so great , that the annual election of magistrates , was but another name for a tumult ; and as dio goes on b the name of popular government is far more plausible , but the benefits of monarchy are far greater ; it being much easier to find one good than many ; and though one be accounted difficult , the other is almost impossible . and as he elsewhere well observes , the flourishing of a common-wealth depends upon its poverty ; that being alone able to unite the minds of the governours , who in a plentiful state , not set about with enemies , will be grasping at their own private interests , and fall naturally from thence into divisions and animosities ; but the flourishing of the monarchy lies in the riches of it , the prince and the people having the same interest , and being rich or poor together . so that we see the notion of liberty , and exercise of power in government , is so far from being an inseparable property of the people , that the proper notion of it is inconsistent with government and that which lies in the enjoyments of our rights and properties , is so far from being inconsistent with monarchy , that they are more advanced by that , than by any other way of government . . another principle which tends to the subverting government under a pretence of liberty , is , that in case of usurpation upon the rights of the people , they may resume the exercise of power , and punish the supreme magistrate himself , if he be guilty of it . than which there can be no principle imagined more destructive to civil societies , and repugnant to the very nature of government . for it destroys all the obligations of oaths and compacts ; it makes the solemnest bonds of obedience signifie nothing when the pleople shall think fit to declare it : it makes every prosperous rebellion just ; for no doubt when the power is in the rebels hands , they will justifie themselves , and condemn their soveraign . ( and if corah , dathan and abiram had succeeded in their rebellion against moses , no doubt they would have been called the keepers of the liberties of israel . ) it makes all government dangerous to the persons in whom it is , considering the unavoidable infirmities , of it , and the readiness of people to misconstrue the actions of their princes , and their incapacity to judge of them ; it not being fit that the reasons of all counsels of princes should be divulged by proclamations . so that there can be nothing wanting to make princes miserable , but that the people want power to make them so . and the supposition of this principle will unavoidably keep up a constant jealousie between the prince and his people : for if he knows their minds , he will think it reasonable to secure himself by all means against their power , and endeavour to keep them as unable to resist as may be : whereby all mutual confidence between a prince and his people will be destroyed : and there can be no such way to bring in an arbitrary government into a nation , as that which such men pretend , to be the only means to keep it out . besides , this must necessarily engage a nation in endless disputes about the forfeiture of power into whose hands it falls : whether into the people in common , or some persons particularly chosen by the people for that purpose : for in an established government according to their principles , the king himself is the true representative of the people ; others may be chosen for some particular purposes , as proposing laws , &c. but these cannot pretend by vertue of that choice , to have the full power of the people ; and withal , whatever they do against the consent of the people is unlawful ; and their power is forfeited by attempting it . but on the other side , what mighty danger can there be in supposing the persons of princes to be so sacred , that no sons of violence ought to come near to hurt them ? have not all the ancient kingdoms and empires of the world flourished under the supposition of an unaccountable power in princes ? that hath been thought by those who did not own a derivation of their power from god , but a just security to their persons , considering the hazards , and the care of government which they undergo ? have not the people who have been most jealous of their liberties , been fain to have recour'e to an unaccountable power , as their last refuge in case of their greatest necessities ? i mean the romans in their dictators . and if it were thought not only reasonable , but necessary then , ought it not to be preserved inviolable , where the same laws do give it by which men have any right to challenge any power at all ? neither doth this give princes the liberty to do what they list ; for the laws by which they govern , do fence in the rights and properties of men ; and princes do find so great conveniency ease and security in their government by law , that the sense of that will keep them far better within the compass of laws , than the peoples holding a rod over them , which the best princes are like to suffer the most by , and bad will but grow desperate by it . good princes will never need such a curb , because their oaths and promises , their love and tenderness towards their people , the sense they have of a power infinitely greater than theirs , to which they must give an account of all their actions , will make them govern as the fathers of their country ; and bad princes will never value it , but will endeavour by all possible means to secure themselves against it . so that no inconveniency can be possibly so great on the supposition of this unaccountable power in soveraign princes , taking it in the general , and meerly on the account of reason , as the unavoidable mischiefs of that hypothests , which places all power originally in the people , and notwithstanding all oaths and bonds whatsoever to obedience gives them the liberty to resume it when they please : which will always be when that spirit of faction and sedition shall prevail among them , which ruled here in corah and his company . . another pretence for this rebellion of corah , was , the freeing themselves from the encroachments upon their spiritual priviledges which were made by the usurpations of aaron and the priesthood . this served for a very popular pretence , for they knew no reason that one tribe should engross so much of the wealth of the nation to themselves , and have nothing to do but to attend the service of god for it . what , say they , are not all the lords people holy ? why may not then all they offer up incense to the lord , as well as the sons of aaron ? how many publick uses might those revenues serve for , which are now to maintain aaron , and all the sons of levi ? but if there must be some to attend the service of god , why may not the meanest of the people serve for that purpose , those who can be serviceable for nothing else ? why must there be an order of priesthood distinct from that of levites ? why a high-priest above all the priests ? what is there in all their office which one of the common people may not do as well as they ? cannot they slay the sacrifices , and offer incense , and do all other parts of the priestly office ? so that at last they make all this to be a politick design of moses only to advance his own family by making his brother high-priest , and to have all the priests and levites at his devotion , to keep the people the better in awe . this hath always been the quarrel at religion , by those who seldom pretend to it , but with a design to destroy it . for who would ever have minded the constant attendance at the temple , if no encouragements had been given to those who were imployed in it ? or is not religion apt enough to be despised of it self , by men of prophane minds , unless it be rendred more mean and contemptible by the poverty of those who are devoted to it ? shall not god be allowed the priviledge of every master of a family , to appoint the ranks and orders of his own servants , and to take care they be provided for , as becomes those who wait upon him ? what a dishonour had this been to the true god , when those who worshipped false gods thought nothing too great for those who were imployed in the service of them ? but never any yet cryed , but he that had a mind to betray his master , to what purpose is all this waste ? let god be honoured as he ought to be , let religion come in for its share among all the things which deserve encouragement , and those who are imployed in the offices of it , enjoy but what god , and reason , and the laws of their country give them , and then we shall see it was nothing , but the discontent and faction of corah and his company which made any encroachment of aaron and the priesthood any pretence for rebellion . but all these pretences would not serve to make them escape the severe hand of divine justice ; for in an extraordinary and remarkable manner he made them suffer the just desert of their sin , for they perished in their contradiction , which is the next thing to be considered , viz. . the iudgement which was inflicted upon them for it . they had provoked heaven by their sin , and disturbed the earth by their faction ; and the earth , as if it were moved with indignation against them , trembled and shook , as iosephus saith , like waves that are tossed with a mighty wind , and then with a horrid noise it rends asunder , and opens its mouth to swallow those in its bowels who were unfit to live upon the face of it . they had been dividing the people , and the earth to their amazement and ruine divides it self under their feet , as though it had been designed on purpose , that in their punishment themselves might feel , and others see the mischief of their sin . their seditious principles seemed to have infected the ground they stood upon ; the earth of a sudden proves as unquiet and troublesome as they ; but to rebuke their madness , it was only in obedience to him who made it the executioner of his wrath against them ; and when it had done its office , it is said , a that the earth closed upon them ; and they perished from among the congregation . thus the earth having revenged it self against the disturbers of its peace , heaven presently appears with a flaming fire , taking vengeance upon the . men , who in opposition to b aaron , had usurped the priestl office , in offering incense before the lord. such a fire , if we believe the same historian , which far outwent the most dreadful eruptions of aetna or vesuvius , which neither the art of man , nor the power of the wind could raise , which neither the burning of woods nor cities could parallel ; but such a fire which the wrath of god alone could kindle , whose light could be outdone by nothing but the heat of it . thus heaven and earth agree in the punishment of such disturbers of government , and god by this remarkable judgement upon them hath left it upon record to all ages , that all the world may be convinced how displeasing to him the sin of faction and sedition is . for god takes all this that was done against moses and aaron , as done against himself . for they are said to be gathered together against the lord , v. . to provoke the lord , v. . and the fire is said to come out from the lord : v. . and afterwards it is said of them ; c this is that dathan and abiram , who strove against moses and against aaron in the company of corah , when they strove against the lord. by which we see god interprets striving against the authority appointed by him , to be a striving against himself . god looks upon himself as immediately concerned in the government of the world ; for by him princes raign , and they are his vicegerents upon earth ; and they who resist , resist not a meer appointment of the people , but a an ordinance of god ; and they who do so shall in the mildest sense receive a severe punishment from him . let the pretences be never so popular , the persons never so great and famous ; nay , though they were of the great council of the nation , yet we see god doth not abate of his severity upon any of these considerations . this was the first formed sedition that we read of against moses , the people had been murmuring before , but they wanted heads to manage them : now all things concur to a most dangerous rebellion upon the most popular pretences of religion and liberty ; and now god takes the first opportunity of declaring his hatred of such actions ; that others might hear , and fear , and do no more so presumptuously . this hath been the usual method of divine judgements ; the first of the kind hath been most remarkably punished in this life , that by it they may see how hateful such things are to god ; but if men will venture upon them notwithstanding , god doth not always punish them so much in this world , ( though he sometimes doth ) but reserves them , without repentance , to his justice in the world to come . the first man that sinned was made an example of gods justice ; the first world ; the first publick attempt against heaven at babel after the plantation of the world again ; the first cities which were so generally corrupted after the flood ; the first breaker of the sabbath after the law ; the first offerers with strange fire ; the first lookers into the ark , and here the first popular rebellion and usurpers of the office of priesthood . god doth hereby intend to preserve the honour of his laws ; he gives men warning enough by one examplary punishment , and if notwithstanding that , they will commit the same sin , they may thank themselves if they suffer for it , if not in this life , yet in that to come . and that good effect this judgement had upon that people , that although the next day . suffered for murmuring at the destruction of these men , yet we do not find that any rebellion was raised among them afterwards upon these popular pretences of religion , and the power of the people . while their judges continued ( who were kings , without the state and title of kings ) they were observed with reverence , and obeyed with diligence . when afterwards they desired a king , with all the pomp and grandeur which other nations had ( which samuel acquaints them with , viz. a the officers and souldiers , the large revenues he must have ) though their king was disowned by god , yet the people held firm in their obedience to him , and david himself , though anointed to be king , persecuted by saul , and though he might have pleaded necessity and providence as much any ever could , ( when saul was strangely delivered into his hands , ) yet we see what an opinion he had of the person of a bad king , b the lord forbid that i should do this thing against my master the lords anointed , to stretch forth my hand against him , seeing he is the anointed of the lord. and lest we should think it was only his modesty or his policy which kept him from doing it , he afterwards , upon a like occasion declares , it was only the sin of doing it , which kept him from it . c for who can stretch forth his hand against the lords anointed and be guiltless ? not as though david could not do it without the power of the sanhedrin , as it hath been pretended by the sons of corah in our age ; for he excepts none ; he never seizes upon him to carry him prisoner to be tryed by the sanhedrin , nor is there any foundation for any such power in the sanhedrin over the persons of their soveraigns . it neither being contained in the grounds of its institution , nor any precedent occurring in the whole story of the bible , which gives the least countenance to it : nay , several passages of scripture utterly overthrow it , for how could solomon have said , d where the word of a king is , there is power ; and who may say unto him , what dost thou ? if by the constitution of their government , the sanhedrin might have controlled him in what he said or did . but have not several of the modern iews said so ? granting that some have ; yet so they have spoken many unreasonable and foolish things besides ; but yet none of these have said , that it was in the power of the sanhedrin to depose their kings , or put them to death ; all that they say is , that in the cases expressed by the law , if the kings do transgress , the sanhedrin had the power of inflicting the penalty of scourging , which yet they deny to have had any infamy in it among them . but did not david transgress the law in his murder and adultery ? did not solomon in the multitude of his wives and idolatry , yet where do we read that the sanhedrin ever took cognisance of these things ? and the more ancient iews do say , e that the king was not to be judged , as is plain in the text of the misna , however the expositors have taken a liberty to contradict it ; but as far as we can find , without any foundation of reason : and r. ieremiah in f nachmanides , saith expresly , that no creature may judge the king , but the holy and blessed god alone . but we have an authority far greater than his , viz. of davids in this case , who after he hath denied that any man can stretch forth his hand against the lords anointed , and be guiltless : in the very next words he submits the judgement of him only to god himself , saying , a as the lord liveth , the lord shall smite him , or his day shall come to die , or he shall descend into battel and perish . he thought it sufficient to leave the judgement of those things to god , whose power over princes he knew was enough , if well considered by them , to keep them in awe . we have now dispatched the first , consideration of the words of the text , as they relate to the fact of corah and his company . . we ought now to enquire , whether the christian doctrine hath made any alteration in these things ; or whether that gives any greater encouragement to faction and sedition than the law did , when it is masked under a pretence of zeal for religion and liberty . but it is so far from it , that what god then declared to be displeasing to him by such remarkable judgements , hath been now more fully manifested by frequent precepts , and vehement exhortations , by the most weighty arguments , and the constant practice of the first and the best of christians , and by the black character which is set upon those who under a pretence of christian liberty did despise dominion , and speak evil of dignities , and follow corah in his rebellion , however they may please themselves with greater light , than former ages had in this matter , they are said to be such b for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever . it would take up too much time to examine the frivolous evasions , and ridiculous distinctions by which they would make the case of the primitive christians in not resisting authority , so much different from theirs who have not only done it , but in spight of christianity have pleaded for it . either they said they wanted strength , or courage , or the countenance of the senate , or did not understand their own liberty ; when all their obedience was only due to those precepts of the gospel , which make it so great a part of christianity to be subject to principalities and powers , and which the teachers of the gospel had particularly given them in charge c to put the people in mind of . and happy had it been for us if this doctrine had been more sincerely preached , and duly practised in this nation ; for we should then never have seen those sad times , which we can now no otherwise think of , than of the devouring fire , and raging pestilence , i. e. of such dreadful judgements which we have smarted so much by , that we heartily pray we may never feel them again : for then fears and jealousies began our miseries , and the curse so often denounced against meroz , fell upon the whole nation ; when the sons of corah managed their own ambitious designs against moses and aaron ( the king and the church ) under the same pretences of religion and liberty . and when the pretence of religion was broken into schisms , and liberty into oppression of the people , it pleased god out of his secret and unsearchable judgements to suffer the sons of violence to prevail against the lords anointed ; and then they would know no difference between his being conquered and guilty . they could find no way to justifie their former wickedness , but by adding more : the consciousness of their own guilt , and the fears of the punishment due to it , made them unquiet and thoughtful , as long as his life and presence did upbraid them with the one , and made them fearful of the other . and when they found the greatness and constancy of his mind , the firmness of his piety , the zeal he had for the true interest of the people , would not suffer him to betray his trust for the saving of his life ; they charge him with their own guilt , and make him suffer because they had deserved to do it . and as if it had not been enough to have abused the names of religion and liberty before , they resolve to make the very name of iustice to suffer together with their king : by calling that infamous company who condemned their soveraign , a high court of iustice which trampled under foot the laws both of god and men . but lest the world should imagine they had any shame left in their sins , they make the people witnesses of his murther ; and pretend the power of the people for doing that , which they did detest and abhor . thus fell our royal martyr a sacrifice to the fury of unreasonable men ; who either were so blind as not to see his worth , or rather so bad as to hate him for it . and as god gave once to the people of the iews a king in his anger , being provoked to it by their sins , we have cause to say , that upon the same account he took away one of the best of kings from us in his wrath . but blessed be that god , who in the midst of judgement was pleased to remember mercy , in the miraculous preservation , and glorious restauration of our gratious soveraign ; let us have a care then of abusing the mercies of so great a deliverance to quite other ends than god intended it for ; lest he be provoked to say to us , as he did of old to the iews , a but if ye shall still do wickedly , ye shall be consumed , both ye and your king. and if we look on this as a dreadful judgement , let us endeavour to prevent it by a timely and sincere reformation of our lives , and by our hearty supplications to god that he would preserve the person of our soveraign from all the attempts of violence , that he would so direct his counsels , and prosper his affairs , that his government may be a long and publick blessing to these nations . sermon viii . preached at guild-hall chappel . june . . matthew xxi . xliii . therefore say i unto you , the kingdom of god shall be taken from you , and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof . the time was now very near approaching , wherein the son of god was to suffer an accursed death by the hands of ungrateful men : and to let them see that he laid no impossible command upon men when he bid them a love their enemies , he expresses the truest kindness himself towards those who designed his destruction . for what can be imagined greater towards such , whose malice was like to end in nothing short of their own ruine , than by representing to them the evils they must suffer , to disswade them from that , which they intended to do ? but if neither the sense of their future miseries , nor their present sins will at all abate their fury or asswage their malice , nothing is then left for kindness to shew it self by , but by lamenting their folly , bemoaning their obstinacy , and praying god to have pity upon them , who have so little upon themselves . and all these were very remarkable in the carriage of our blessed saviour towards his most implacable enemies : he had taken care to instruct them by his doctrine ; to convince them by his miracles , to oblige them by the first offers of the greatest mercy ; but all these things had no other effect upon them , than to heighten their malice , increase their rage , and make them more impatient till they had destroyed him . but their stupidity made him more sensible of their folly , and their obstinacy stirred up his compassion towards them , in so much that the nearer he approached to his own sufferings , the greater sense he expressed of theirs . for he was no sooner come within view of that bloody city , wherein he was within few days to suffer by , as well as for the sins of men ; but his compassion breaks forth , not only by his weeping over it ; but by that passionate expression , which is abrupt only by the force of his grief : a if thou hadst known , even thou at least in this thy day the things which belong unto thy peace ! but now they are bid from thine eyes . and when he was within the city , he could not mention the desolation which was to come upon it for all the righteous blood which had been spilt there , but he presently subjoyns , b o hierusalem , hierusalem , thou that killest the prophets , and stonest them which are sent unto thee , how often would i have gathered thy children together , as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings and ye would not ? what words could more emphatically express the love and tenderness of christ towards his greatest enemies than these do ? especially considering that he knew how busie they were in contriving his sufferings , while he was so passionately lamenting theirs . and when their malice had done its utmost upon him , and they saw him hanging upon the cross and ready to yield up his last breath , he imploys the remainder of it in begging pardon for them , in those pathetical words c father , forgive them for they know not what they do . by all which we see , that what punishments soever the jewish nation underwent afterwards for the great sin of crucifying the lord of life , were no effect of meer revenge from him upon them , but the just judgement of god which they had drawn upon themselves by their own obstinacy and wilful blindness . and that they might not think themselves surprised , when the dreadful effects of gods anger should seize upon them , our saviour as he drew nearer to the time of his sufferings gives them more frequent and serious warnings of the sad consequence of their incorrigibleness under all the means of cure which had been used among them . for they were so far from being amended by them , that they not only despised the remedy , but the physitians too ; ( as though that were a small thing ) they beat , they wound , they kill those who came to cure them : but as if it had not been enough to have done these things to servants , ( to let the world see how dangerous it is to attempt the cure of incorrigible sinners ) when god sent his own son to them , expecting they should reverence him , they find a peculiar reason for taking him out of the way , a for then the inheritance would be their own . but so miserably do sinners miscarry in their designs for their advantage , that those things which they build their hopes the most upon prove the most fatal and pernicious to them : when these persons thought themselves sure of the inheritance by killing the son , that very sin of theirs , not only put them out of possession , but out of the hopes of recovering what interest they had in it before . for upon this it is that our saviour here saith in the words of the text , therefore say i unto you , that the kingdom of god shall be taken from you and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof . which words , are the application which our saviour makes of the foregoing parable concerning the vineyard , which it seems the chief priests and pharisees , did not apprehend themselves to be concerned in , till he brought the application of it so close to them ; so that then they find they had condemned themselves , when they so readily passed so severe a sentence upon those husbandmen , who had so ill requited the lord of the vineyard for all the care he had taken about it , that instead of sending him the fruits of it , they abuse his messengers , and at last murther his son. when therefore christ asks them , b when the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh , what will he do unto those husbandmen ? they thought the case so plain , that they never take time to consider , or go forth to advise upon it , but bring in a present answer upon the evidence of the fact . c they say unto him , he will miserably destroy those wicked men , and will let out his vineyard to other husbandmen , which shall render him the fruits in their seasons . little did they think what a dreadful sentence they passed upon themselves and their own nation in these words : little did they think that hereby they condemned their temple to be burned , their city to be destroyed , their country to be ruined , their nation to be vagabonds over the face of the earth ; little did they think that herein they justified god in all the miseries which they suffered afterwards , for in these words they vindicate god and condemn themselves , they acknowledge gods justice in the severest punishments he should inflict upon such obstinate wretches . our saviour having gained this confession from them , and so made it impossible for them to start back in charging god with injustice in punishing them ; he now applies it to themselves in these words , which i suppose , ought immediately to follow the . verse . therefore say i unto you the kingdom of god shall be taken from you , &c. wherein we have , . the greatest judgement which can ever befal a people , which is the taking away the kingdom of god from them . . the greatest mercy can ever be vouchsafed to a nation , which is gods giving his kingdom to it . and give it to a nation , &c. in the judgement we consider the cause of it , therefore say i unto you , &c. which is either , more general as referring to all going before , and so it makes the taking away the kingdom of god to be the just punishment of an incorrigible people , or more particular as referring to the sin of the jews in crucifying christ , and so it makes the guilt of that sin to be the cause of all the miseries , which that nation hath undergone since that time . in the later part we may consider the terms upon which god either gives or continues his kingdom to a nation , and that is , bringing forth the fruits thereof . we consider the former with a particular respect to the state of the jewish nation . and therein , . the greatness of their judgement implyed in those words the kingdom of god , &c. . the particular reason of that judgement which was crucifying the son of god. . the greatness of the judgement which befel the jewish nation after imbruing their hands in the blood of christ. and that will appear if we take the kingdom of god in that double notion in which it was taken at that time . . it was taken by the jews themselves for some peculiar and temporal blessings , which those who enjoyed it had above all other people . . it was taken by our saviour for a clearer manisestation of the will of god to the world , and the consequence of that in the hearts of good men ; and all the spiritual blessings which do attend it . so that the taking away the kingdom of god from them must needs be the heaviest judgement which could befal a people , since it implies in it , the taking away all the greatest temporal and spiritual blessings . . we take it in the notion the jews themselves had of it ; and in this sense we shall make it evident that the kingdom of god hath been taken from that people in accomplishment of this prediction of our saviour . for they imagined the kingdom of god among them to consist in these things especially , deliverance from their enemies , a flourishing state , the upholding their religion in honour , chiefly in the pompous worship of the temple . now if instead of these things , they were exposed to the fury of their enemies so as never any nation besides them were , if their whole polity was destroyed so as the very face of government hath ever since been taken from them ; if their religion hath been so far from being upheld , that the practice of it hath been rendred impossible by the destruction of the temple , and the consequences of it , then the jews themselves cannot but say , that in their own sense the kingdom of god hath been taken from them . . they make the kingdom of god to consist in a deliverance of them from their enemies . for this was their great quarrel at our saviour that he should pretend to bring the kingdom of god among them , and do nothing in order to their deliverance from the roman power . they either were such great admirers of the pomp and splendor of the world , or so sensible of their own burdens and the yoke that was upon them , that they could not be perswaded that god should design to send his kingdom among them for any other end but their ease and liberty . they apprehended the crown of thorns which was put upon our saviours head was the fittest representation of the nature of his kingdom ; for they looked upon it as the meer shew of a kingdom , but the reality was nothing but affliction and tribulation ; and this was a doctrine they thought of all others the least needful to be preached to them , who complained so much of what they underwent already . they took it for the greatest contradiction to talk of a kingdom among them , as long as they were in subjection to the roman governors . but if jesus of nazareth had raised an army in defence of their liberty , and had destroyed the romans , they would never have enquired farther concerning prophesies , or miracles , this had been instead of all others to them , and then they would willingly have given him that title , which was set up only in derision as the elogium of his cross , iesus of nazareth king of the iews : but we see how justly god dealt with them soon after , when they crucified the son of god because he preached another kingdom than they dream'd of , god suffers this very pretence of a temporal kingdom to be the occasion of the ruine of the whole nation . for upon that it was that they denied subjection to the romans , for they were for no other kingdom but only gods , ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to acknowledge no other king but god , was the pretence of the war : ) upon which arose that desperate faction of the zealots , who like so many firebrands scattered up and down among them , soon put the whole nation into flames . and from this time there never was a more tragical story either acted or written than that is of the miseries which this people underwent . for if ever there were the marks of divine vengeance seen in the ruine of a nation , they were in that . for they were so far from hearkning to the counsel of their wisest men , that the first thing they made sure of , was the destruction of them . wisdom was but another name for treason among them : and there needed no other evidence to take away the lives of any but to say that they were rich and wise . when they had thus secured themselves ( as they thought ) against the danger of too much wisdom , by the removal of all such , who at least did not counterfeit madness and folly by joyning with them ; then they began to suspect one another , and three factions at once break forth at hierusalem , who seem'd to be afraid the romans should not destroy them fast enough , for in the several parts of the city where they were , they were continually killing one another : and never joyned together but when they saw the romans approaching their walls , least they should take that work out of each others hands . by all means they were resolved to endure a seige , and as a preparative for that , they burnt up all the stores almost of provision which were among them : whence ensued a most dreadful famine , so great , that it was thought reason enough to take away the life of a man , because he looked better than his neighbours , they thereby suspecting he had some concealed provisions . they brake into the houses of such whom they imagined to be eating , and if they found them so , they either forced the meat out of their mouths , or choaked them with attempting to do it . it was no news then for a woman to forget her sucking child , so as not to have compassion upon the son of her womb : for the story is remarkable in a iosephus , of a mother that not only eat part of her son , who sucked at her breast , but when the smell had tempted some to break in upon her and take part with her , and were struck with horror at the sight of it , what , saith she , will you shew your selves more tender than a woman , or more compassionate than a mother ! it was no news to see parents and children destroying one another for a piece of bread , to see the streets and tops of houses covered with the bodies of those who dropt down for want of food , in so much that the stench of their carcases soon brought a plague among them : which and the famine raged together with that violence , that when there was no possibility of burying their dead , they threw them over the walls of the city , and titus beholding the incredible numbers of them lift up his hands to heaven and cryed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that it was none of his doing . for he used all possible means to prevent the ruine of the city and temple as well as the destruction of the people : but all to no purpose , for now the time of gods vengeance was come , yea the full time of his wrath was come . so that titus often confessed , he never saw such an instance of divine vengeance upon a people , that when their enemies designed to save them , they were resolved to destroy themselves . and a philostratus tells us , that when the neighbour provinces offered titus a crown , in token of his conquest of iudaea , he utterly refused it with this saying , that he had nothing to do in the glory of that action , for he was only the instrument of gods vengeance upon the iews . which we may easily believe , if we consider almost the incredible number of those who were destroyed at that time , reckoned in that number in the time of eight months siege , and carried away captive , which might have been thought incredible , but for one circumstance , which is mentioned by their own historian , that at the time of the siege hierusalem was filled with jews coming from all parts to the solemnity of the passover , where they were shut up asin a prison : and their prison made their place of execution . yea so prodigious were the calamities which besel this people not only at hierusalem , but at caesarea , antioch , scythopolis , alexandria and almost all the cities of syria , that eliazer , one of the heads of the faction , when he saw they could not hold out against the romans at massada , perswaded them all to kill one another by this argument b that it was now apparent that god from the beginning of the war had designed their destruction , and they had better be the executioners of his vengeance themselves than suffer the romans to be so . upon which they all miserably destroyed each other : who were the last who opposed the roman power . what shall we say then to these things ? have we any ground to suspect the truth of the story as either made by christians in hatred of the jews , or improved mightily to their disadvantage ? not so certainly , when all the circumstances are related by jewish and roman writers , who had no kindness at all for christians . or shall we say there was nothing extraordinary in all this , but that the jews were a wild and seditious people that destroyed themselves and their nation ? but it is evident they were not always so ; they had been a people that had flourished with the reputation of wisdom and conduct , and had great success against their enemies . and the romans themselves at this time acknowledged they never saw a people of a more invincible spirit and less afraid of dying than these were . but all this turned to their greater prejudice ; and they who had been so famous in former ages for miraculous deliverances from the power of their enemies , were now not only given up into their hands , but into those which were far more cruel , which were their own . what then can we imagine should make so great an alteration in the state of their affairs now , but that god was their friend then and their enemy now ? he gave then success beyond their counsels , and without preparation ; now he blasts all their designs , divides their counsels , and makes their contrivances end in their speedier ruine . now they felt the effect of what god had threatned long before , a woe be unto you when i depart from you . now their strength , their wisdom , their peace , their honour , their safety were all departed from them . whereby we see how much the welfare of a nation depends upon gods favour and that no other security is comparable to that of true religion . the nation of the jews , was for all that we know never more numerous , than at this time , never more resolute and couragious to venture their lives , never better provided of fortified towns and strong places of retreat and all provisions for war ; but there was a hand writing upon the wall against them , mene , tekel , peres , god had weighed them in the ballance and found them too light , he divides their nation and removes his kingdom from them and leaves them to an utter desolation . neither can we say this was some present infatuation upon them , for ever since all their attempts for recovering their own land , have but increased their miseries and made their condition worse than before . witness that great attempt under barchocebas in the time of adrian , in which the jews themselves say there perished double the number of what came out of egypt i. e. above men . after which they were not only wholly banished their land , but forbid so much as to look on the place where the temple had stood , and were fain to purchase at a dear rate , the liberty of weeping over it ; b ut qui quondam emerant sanguinem christi , emant lachrymas suas ; as st. hierom speaks ; i. e. that they who had bought the blood of christ were now fain to buy their own tears . it would be endless to pursue the miseries of this wretched people in all ages ever since ; the slavery , disgrace , universal contempt , the frequent banishments , confiscations of estates , constant oppressions which they have laboured under . so that from that time to this , they have scarce had any estates , but never any country which they could call their own . so that st. augustin hath truly said , a the curse of cain is upon them , for they are vagabonds in the earth , they have a mark upon them , so that they are not destroyed and yet are in continual fear of being so . god seems to preserve that miserable nation in being , to be a constant warning to all others , to let them see what a difference in the same people the favour or displeasure of god can make , and how severe the judgements of god are upon those who are obstinate and disobedient . . they make the kingdom of god to consist in the flourishing of their state , or that polity which god established among them . he was himself once their immediate governour and therefore it might be properly call'd his kingdom : and after they had kings of their own their plenty and prosperity did so much depend on the kindness of heaven to them , that all the days of their flourishing condition might be justly attributed to a more than ordinary providence that watched over them . for if we consider how small in comparison the extent and compass of the whole land of iudea was , being as saint hierom saith , ( who knew it well , ) but . miles in length from dan to beersheba , and . in bredth from ioppa to bethlehem ; if we consider likewise the vast number of its inhabitants , there being at b davids numbering the people . fighting men who ought not to be reckoned above a th part of the whole , and benjamin and levi not taken in , if we add to these , the many rocks , mountains and deserts in this small country , and that every . years the most fertile places must lye fallow , we may justly wonder how all this number of people should prosper so much in so narrow a territory . for although we ought not to measure the rules of eastern diet by those of our northern climates , and it be withall true that the number of people add both to the riches and plenty of it , and that the fertile places of that land were so almost to a miracle , yet considering their scarcity of rain and their sabbatical years , we must have recourse to an immediate care of heaven which provided for all their necessities and filled their stores to so great abundance that c solomon gave to king hiram every year . measures of wheat , and twenty measures of oyl : every one of which contained about . bushels . and god himself had particularly promised to give them the former and the latter rain , and that they might have no occasion to complain of their sabbatical years a every sixth year should afford them fruit for . years . by which we see their plenty depended not so much upon the fat of their land , as upon the dew and blessing of heaven . and if we farther consider them as environed about with enemies on every side , such as were numerous and powerful , implacable and subtle , it is a perpetual wonder ( considering the constitution of the jewish nation ) that they should not be destroyed by them . for all the the males being obliged strictly by the law to go up three times a year to hierusalem ( we should think against all rules of policy to leave the country naked ) it seem's incredible that their enemies should not over-run the country , and destroy their wives and children at that time . but all their security was in the promise which god had made ; b neither shall any man desire thy land , when thou shall go up to appear before the lord thy god thrice in the year . and to let us see that obedience to god is the best security against the greatest dangers , we never read of any invasion of that country in one of those times , nor of any miseries they suffer'd then ; till the last and fatal destruction of hierusalem when god had taken away his kingdom from them . and with that , their whole polity fell ; for never since have they been able to maintain so much as the face of government living in subjection , if not in slavery in all parts of the world . so that whether we mean the succession of power in iudahs tribe , or the seat of power in the whole nation , or the distinction and superiority of that tribe above the rest , by the scepter which was not c to depart from iudah till shiloh came ; we are sure in every one of these senses , it is long since departed from it . for neither have any of the posterity of david had any power over them , nor was it possible they should , considering that all government is taken from them , and the very distinction of tribes is lost among them , they having never had any certain genealogies since the destruction of the temple . i know what vaine hopes , and foolish fancies , and incredible stories they have among them ; of some supreme power , which they have in some part of the world but they know not where . sometimes , they talk of their mighty numbers at bagdad , and the officers of their own nation which are set over them : but had they not so in egypt , and were they ever the less in captivity there ? sometimes they boast of their schools in those eastern parts , such as pombeditha , sura , and neharda , and the authority the rabbins have over them ; but this is just as the orator said of dionysius the tyrant of syracuse , that he loved government so well , that when he was not suffered to govern men there , he went to govern boys at corinth , a usque eò imperio carere non poterat . but these are tolerable in comparison with the incredible fictions of the . tribes in the east , hemm'd in by a vast and unpassable ridge of mountains on every side , but when the famous sabbatical river runs , which for . days bear 's all before it with a mighty torrent , and carries stones of such incredible bigness that there is no passing over it : but because the admirable nature of that river is , b that it keeps the sabbath and rests all that day , we might have thought it had been possible to have had some entercourse with them on that day ; but to prevent this they tell us , that as the water goes off , flames of fire come in the place of it and hinder all access to them . but these are things which a man must be a iew first before he can believe : and what will not they believe rather than christ is the son of god! for c manasse ben israel hath had the confidence in this age to say that the sand taken out of the sabbatical river and preserved in a tube doth constantly move for . days , and rests punctually from the beginning of the sabbath to the end of it . which is the less to be wondred at since in all his book of the hope of israel , he eagerly contends for the incredible fiction of montezini of the flourishing condition of the jews at this day in some parts of america ; but the salvo is translated thither too , for there is a mighty river which hinders any from access to them . by all which we see how vain all their attempts are to preserve any reputation of that power and government wherein they made so great a part of the kingdom of god among them to consist . . that which they thought gave them the greatest title to the being gods peculiar people , was the solemn worship of him at the temple . but what is become of all the glory of that now ? where are all the pompous ceremonies , the numerous sacrifices , the magnificent and solemn feasts , which were to be constantly observed there ? how is it then possible for them to observe the religion now which god commanded them ; since he likewise forbid the doing these things any where , but in the place which himself should appoint . so that they are under an unavoidable necessity of breaking their law ; if they do them not , they break the law which commands them to be done , if they do them , they break the law which forbids the doing them in any other place but at the temple at hierusalem . and this i am apt to think , was one of the greatest grounds among them after the destruction of the temple of their setting up traditions above the written law ; for finding it impossible to keep the written law , if they could gain to themselves the authority of interpreting it , they were not much concerned for the law it self . and this is one of the strongest holds of their infidelity at this day . for otherwise we might in reason have thought , that their infidelity would have been buried in the ashes of their temple ; when they had such plain predictions that the messias was to come during the second temple , that the prediction of christ concerning the destruction of this temple was so exactly fulfilled , that all attemps for the rebuilding of it were vain and fruitless . of all which none promissed so fair as that in iulians time , who out of spight to the christians , and particularly with a design to contradict the prophecy of our saviour gave all encouragement to the iews to build it , he provided at his own charge all materials for it , and gave command to the governour of the province to take particular care in it ; and the jews with great joy and readiness set about it ; but when they began to search the ground in order to the laying the foundations , the earth round about trembles with a horrible earthquake , and the flames of a sudden break out , which not only consumed the undertakers but a great multitude of spectators , and the materials prepared for the building : in so much that an universal astonishment seized upon them , and the rest had rather leave their work , than be consumed by it . this we have delivered to us ; not by persons at a great distance of time from it , but by such who lived in the same age . a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we are all witnesses , ( saith st. chrysost. ) of the truth of these things ; not by one or two , but the concurrent testimony of the writers of that age . not only by b st. chrysost. but gregorius nazianzenus , ambrose , ruffinus , socrates , sozomen , theodoret. and lest all these should be suspected of partiality , because christians , we desire no more to be believed concerning it , than what is recorded by ammianus marcellinus a heathen historian of that time , who was a souldier under iulian in his last expedition , and he asserts the substance of what i have said before . and what a strange difference do we now find in the building of a third and a second temple ? in the former , though they met with many troubles and difficulties , yet god carried them through all and prospered their endeavours with great success . now they had all humane encouragements and god only opposes them , and makes them desist with the loss of their workmen and materials , and perpetual dishonour to themselves , for attempting to fight against god in building him a temple against his will. from which we see that in all the senses the jews understood the kingdom of god , it was remarkably taken from them within so many years after christ the true passover was slain by them , as had passed from their first passover after their going out of aegypt to their entrance into canaan . the difficulty will be far less and the concernment not so great as to the jews , to prove that the kingdom of god in the sense our saviour meant it for the power of the gospel , was taken from them . for the event it self is a clear proof of it . in stead of that therefore i shall now prove that this taking away the kingdom of god from them , was the effect of their sin in crucifying christ. therefore i say &c. to make this clear i shall proceed by these following steps . . that it is acknowledged by the jews themselves that these great calamities have happened to them for some extraordinary sins . for to these they impute the destruction of the city and temple , their oppressions and miseries ever since , and the deferring the coming of the messias . for some of them have confessed a that all the terms prefixed for the coming of the messias are past long ago but that god provoked by their great sins hath thus long deferred his appearance , and suffered them in the mean while to lye under such great calamities . . the sin ought to be looked on as so much greater by how much heavier and longer this punishment hath been , than any inflicted upon them before . for if god did in former captivities punish them for their sins , when they were brought back again into their own land after . years ; we must conclude that this is a sin of a higher nature which hath not been expiated by . years captivity and dispersion . . the jews have not suffered these calamities for the same sins for which they suffered before . for then god charged them with idolatry as the great provoking sin ; and it is very observable that the jews were never freer from the suspicion of this sin than under the second temple , and particularly near their destruction . they generally pretended a mighty zeal for their law , and especially opposed the least tendency to idolatry ; in so much that they would not suffer the roman ensigns to be advanced among them because of the images that were upon them ; and all the history of that time tells us of the frequent contests they had with the roman governours about these things : and ever since that time they have been perfect haters of idolatry , and none of the least hindrances of their embracing christianity hath been the infinite scandal which hath been given them by the roman church in that particular . . it must be some sin , which their fathers committed and continues yet unrepented of by them to this day . their fathers committing it , was the meritorious cause of the first punishment , their children not repenting of it , is the cause why that judgement lies still so heavy upon them . and now what sin can we imagine this to be , but putting to death the true messias ; which they will acknowledge themselves to be a sin that deserves all the miseries they have undergone ; and it is apparent that in all this long captivity they never have had the heart to repent of the sin of crucifying christ , other sins they confess and say they heartily repent of , but why then hath not god accepted of their repentance and brought them back into their own land ; according to the promises he long since made unto their fathers ? which is a certain argument it is some sin as yet unrepented of by them which continues them under all their sufferings ; and what can this be but that horrid sin of putting to death the son of god , with that dreadful imprecation which to this day hath its force upon them his blood be upon us and our children ? and this sin they are so far from repenting of , that they still justify their fathers in what they did , and blaspheme christ to this day in their prayers , where they think they may do it with safety . and to all this we may add that the ensuing calamities were exactly soretold by that christ whom they crucified , and if no other argument would convince them that he was at least a prophet , yet the punctual accomplishment of all his predictions ought to do it : as will appear by comparing a matth. . with the series of the story . and it is observable that the very place where our saviour foretold these things viz. the mount of olives , was the first wherein the roman army encamped before hierusalem . and as they had crucified the son of god , and put the lord of glory to open shame , mocking and deriding him in his sufferings ; so when the romans came to revenge his quarrel upon them , they took the captive jews and crucified them openly in the view of the city , . oft-times in a day , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in different forms for sport sake as b iosephus tells us who was then in the roman camp ; and withal adds , their numbers were so great that these was no room left for the crosses to stand , or wood enough to make crosses of . and they who had bought the blood of the son of god for . pieces of silver had this sin of theirs severely punished , when such multitudes of the jews ( in one night ) had their bowels ript up by the roman souldiers in hopes to have found the gold and silver there , which they were supposed to have swallowed . and what greater argument can we have to believe that such judgements fell upon them upon the account of their sin in crucifying christ , than that they were so punctually foretold so long before , and had all things so exactly answering in the accomplishment of them ? for when christ spake those things the jews thought their destruction as incredible as that he was the messias ; but what greater evidence could there be to them that he was so , than that god did so severely avenge his blood upon them , and continues to do it for their unbelief and impenitency to this very day . but it may be some will say , what are all these things to us , we are none of those who crucified christ or justify the doing it ; thanks be to god , the kingdom of god is not taken from us , but we enjoy what was taken from them . to which i answer . if we really were what we pretend to be , these things are of great consequence to be considered by us . . for is it nothing to us to have so great an argument of the truth of our religion , as the sufferings of the jews to this day is for the sin of crucifying christ ? as often as we think of them we ought to consider the danger of infidelity , and the heavy judgements which that brings upon a people . we may take some estimate of the wrath of god against that sin , by the desolation of the country , and the miseries of the inhabitants of it . when you think it a small sin to despise the son of god , to revile his doctrine , and reproach his miracles , consider then what the jews have suffered for these sins . as long as they continue a people in the world , they are the living monuments of the vengeance of god upon an incorrigible and unbelieving nation . and it may be one of the ends of gods dispersing them almost among all nations , that as often as they see and despise them , they may have a care of those sins which have made them a byword and reproach among men , who once were a nation beloved of god and feared by men . see what it is to despise the offers of grace , to reproach and ill use the messengers of it who have no other errand but to perswade men to accept that grace and bring forth the fruits thereof . see what it is for men to be slaves to their own lusts , which makes them not only neglect their own truest interest but that of their nation too . if that had not been the fundamental miscarriage of the rulers of the jewish nation at the time of our saviour , they would most readily have entertained him and saved their land from ruine . see what it is for a people to be high in conceit of themselves and to presume upon gods favour towards them . for there never was a nation more self opinionated as to their wisdom , goodness , and interest with god than the jews were when they began their war : and the confidence of this made them think it long till they had destroyed themselves . see what it is to be once engaged too far in a bad cause , how hard it is though they suffer never so much for it afterwards , for them to repent of it . we might have thought the jews when they had seen the destruction of ierusalem would have come off from their obstinacy ; but how very few in comparison from that time to this , have sincerely repented of the sins of their fore-fathers in the death of christ. see how hard a matter it is to conquer the prejudices of education , and to condemn the most unjust actions of those when we come to understanding , whom from our infancy we had in veneration . for it is in great measure because they were their ancestors , that the jews to this day are so hardly convinced they could be guilty of so soul a sin as crucifying the messias . . is it nothing to us what they have suffered , who enjoy the greatest blessings we have , by their means , and upon the same terms which they did . for to them at first were committed the oracles of god , we enjoy all the excellent and sacred records of ancient times from them , all the prophecies of the men whom god raised up and inspired from time to time among them . by their means we converse with those great persons , moses , david , solomon and others , and understand their wisdom and piety by the writings which at this day we enjoy . by them we have conveyed to us , all the particular prophesies which relate to the messias , which point out the tribe , the place , the time , the very person he was to be born of . by their means we are able to consute their infidelity , and to confirm our own faith . therefore we have some common concernment with them , and ought on that account to be sensible of their miseries . is it nothing then to you that god hath dealt so severely with them , from whom you derive so great a part of your religion ? but if that be nothing , consider the terms upon which you enjoy these mercies you have ; and they are as the latter clause of the text assures us , no other than the bringing forth the fruits thereof . if we prove as obstinate and incorrigible as they , god may justly punish us , as he hath done them . it is but a vineyard that god lets us , it is no inheritance ; god expects our improvement and giving him the fruits of it , or else he may justly take it away from us and give it to other husbandmen . let us never flatter our selves in thinking it impossible god should make us as miserable and contemptible a people as he hath done the jews ; but we may be miserable enough and yet fall short of them . have we any such promises of his favour as they had ? how great were their priviledges while they stood in favour with god above all other nations in world ? a but we see , though they were the first and the natural branches , they are broken off by unbelief , and we stand by faith . nothing then can be more reasonable than the exhortation of the apostle , a be not high minded but fear . boast not of your present priviledges ; despise not those who are broken of , for consider , if god spared not the natural branches , we ought to take heed , lest he also spare not us . . is it nothing to us what the jews suffer , since our sins are in some senses more aggravated than theirs were ? for though there can be no just excuse made for their wilful blindness , yet there may be much less made for ours . for what they did against him was when he appeared in the weakness of humane flesh , in a very mean and low condition , before the great confirmation of our faith , by his resurrection from the dead ; but our contempt of christ is much more unpardonable , not only after that , but the miraculous consequences of it , and the spreading and continuance of his doctrine in the world , after the multitudes of martyrs and the glorious . triumphs of our religion over all the attempts of the persecutors and betrayers of it ; after the solemn vows of our baptism in his name , and frequent addresses to god by him , and celebrating the memory of his death and passion . what can be more mean , and ungrateful , what can shew more folly and weakness than after all these to esteem the blood of christ no otherwise than as of a common malefactor , or at least to live as if we so esteemed it ? nay we may add to all this , after so severe an instance of gods vengeance already upon the jews ; which ought to increase our care , and will therefore aggravate our sin . what the jews did they did as open and professed enemies , what we do we do as false and perfidious friends , and let any man judge which is the greater crime , to assault an enemy , or to betray a friend . . can this be nothing to us who have so many of those symptoms upon us which were the fore-runners of their desolation ? not as though i came hither like the son of anani in the jewish story , who of a sudden , . years before the war , cryed out in the temple , a voice from the east , a voice from the west , a voice from the . winds , woe to jerusalem , woe to the temple , woe to all this people , and this he continued crying saith iosephus for . years and . months , till at last being upon the walls of the city , he cryed woe to my self also , and immediately a stone come out from one of the roman engines and dispatched him . god forbid we should be so near a desolation as they were then ; but yet our symptoms are bad , and without our repentance and amendment god knows what they may end in . there were these following remarkable forerunners of desolation in the jewish state , i am afraid we are too much concerned in . . a strange degeneracy of all sorts of men from the vertues of their ancestors . this iosephus often mentions and complains of and that there was no sort of men free ; from the highest to the meanest , they had all degenerated not only from what they ought to be , but from what their ancestors were . and there can be nothing which bodes worse to a people than this doth ; for the decay of vertue is really the loss of strength and interest . and if this be not among us at this day in one sense , it must be in another , or else there would never be such general complaints of it as there are . it is hard to say that there hath ever been an age , wherein vice , such as the very heathens abhorred , hath been more confident and daring than in this ; wherein so many have not barely left vertue , but have bid defiance to it ; and are ashamed of their baptism for nothing so much as because therein they renounced the devil and all his works ; these are the zealots in wickedness as the jews were in faction . the flaming sword , the voice in the temple , the terrible earthquakes , were not greater prodigies in nature among them , than men are in morality among us , nor sadder presages of future miseries . . a general stupidity and inapprehensiveness of common danger : every one had a mighty zeal for his little party and faction he was engaged in , and would venture his life for that , never considering that by this means there was no more left to do , for the romans , but to stand by and see them destroy one another . i pray god that may be never said of the romans in another sense concerning this church of ours . we cannot but be sensible how much they are pleased at our divisions and they have always hay and stubble enough , not only to build with , but thereby to add fuel to our flames . how happy should we be if we could once lay aside our petty animosities and all mind the true interest of our church and the security of the protestant religion by it , which ought to be dearer to to us than our lives ! but that is our misery , that our divisions in religion have made us not more contemptible , than ridiculous to forrain nations , and it puzleth the wisest among our selves to find out expedients to keep us from ruining one of the best churches of the christian world . . an atheistical contempt of religion : for iosephus who was apt enough to flatter his country-men ; tells us there never was a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a more atheistical generation of men than at that time , the leaders of the factions were ; for they contemned the laws of men and mocked at the laws of of god ; a and derided the prophetick oracles as fabulous impostures : they would allow no difference of sacred and prophane , for they would drink the wine of the sacrifices promiscuously , and anoint their heads commonly with the sacred oyl ; in a word they owned no distinction of good and evil , b but thought the greatest wickedness to be good to them . to say there is such a generation of men among us , is to foretel our ruine more certainly than comets and the most dreadful presages do : for this is a sort of madness which seldom seizes upon a people , but when they are past cure , and therefore are near their end . . spiritual pride . this was very remarkable in the people of the jews , in a time when they had as little reason for it , as any people in the world . they still looked on themselves as gods chosen and peculiar people , his darlings and his delight , and thought that gods honour and interest in the world were mightily concerned in their preservation . if they should be destroyed , they could not imagine what god would do for a people to serve him ; for all but themselves they looked on with a very scornful pity , and thought that god hated them because they did . they had the purity of his ordinances , in his house of prayer ; and the society of the faithful among themselves : whereas all others they thought , served god only with their own inventions , or placed their religion in dull morality . they were the people who maintained his cause , and ventured their lives and estates for it , and therefore god was bound in faithfulness to defend them , and he must deny himself if he did destroy them . it seems strange to us , that a people rejected by god for their horrible hypocrisie , should claim such an interest in him , when they were marked out for destruction by him ; but such is the bewitching nature of spiritual pride and hypocrisie , that it infatuates the minds of men to their ruin ; and flatters them with their interest in the promises , till god makes good his threatenings and destroys them . never any people thought they had a richer stock of promises to live on than they ; ancient promises , to abraham isaac and iacob , full promises , of favour , protection , and deliverance from enemies ; particular promises made to them and to no other people in the world . besides these , they had mighty experiences of gods kindness towards them , undoubted experiences , not depending on the deceitful workings of fancy ; but seen in very strange and wonderful deliverances ; frequent experiences , throughout the whole history of their nation : and peculiar experiences being such vouchsafements to them , which god communicated to none but his chosen people . add to these , that they had at this time a wonderful zeal for the true worship of god as they thought ; they regarded no persecution or opposition , but thought it their glory and honour to sacrifice themselves for the cause of god and his people . and yet all this while , god was the greatest enemy they had ; and all their pretences signified nothing to him who saw their unsusserable pride and loathsome hypocrisie through those thin vails they had drawn over them , to deceive the less observing sort of men by . other sins that are open and publick god preserves the authority of his laws by punishing of them , but these spiritual sins of pride and hypocrisie , he not only vindicates his authority over the consciences of men , but the infiniteness , of his wisdom and knowledge in their discovery , and his love to integrity and inward holiness in the punishment of them . and therefore these sins are more especially odious to god as incroaching upon his highest and most peculiar attributes ; thence he is said to resist the proud , as though he made an attempt upon god himself ; and he loaths the hypocrite in heart , as one that mocks god as well as deceives men . the first tendency to the destruction of this nation of the jews was the prevalency of the pharisaical temper among them , which was a compound of pride and hypocrisie ; and when the field was over-run with these tares , it was then time for god to put in his sickle and cut them down . god forbid , that our church and the protestant religion in it should be in danger of destruction , for that would be a judgement beyond fire and sword and plague , and any thing we have yet smarted by ; that would be the taking away the kingdom of god from us , and setting up the kingdom of darkness , that would be not only a punishment to our own age , but the heaviest curse next to renouncing christianity , we could entail upon posterity . but however though god in mercy may design better things for us , we cannot be sufficiently apprehensive of our danger , not so much from the business of our enemies , as those bad symptoms we find among our selves . when there is such monstrous pride and ingratitude among many who pretend to a purer worship of god than is established by law , as though there were little or no difference between the government of moses and aaron and the bondage of egypt . o england , england what will the pride and unthankfulness of those who profess religion bring thee to ! will men still prefer their own reputation or the interest of a small party of zealots , before the common concernments of our faith and religion ? o that we did know at least in this our day , the things that belong to our peace ! but let it never be said that they are hid from our eyes . but if our common enemy should enter in at the breaches we have made among our selves , then men may wish , they had sooner known the difference between the reasonable commands of our own church , and the intolerable tyranny of a forrain and usurped power : between the soft and gentle hands of a mother , and the iron sinews of an executioner ; between the utmost rigour of our laws , and the least of an inquisition . if ingratitude were all , yet that were a sin high enough to provoke god to make our condition worse than it is , but to what a strange height of spiritual pride are those arrived , who ingross all true god iness to themselves ? as though it were not possible among us to go to heaven and to church together . as though christ had no church for . years and more , wherein not one person can be named who thought it unlawful to pray by a prescribed form . as though men could not love god and pray sincerely to him , that valued the peace and order of the church above the heats and conceptions of their own brains . where differences proceed meerly from ignorance and weakness , they are less dangerous to themselves or others : but where there is so much impatience of reproof , such contempt of superiours , such uncharitable censures of other men , such invincible prejudices and stiffeness of humour , such scorn and reproach cast upon the publick worship among us ; what can such things spring from but a root of bitterness and spiritual pride ? i speak not these things to widen our differences or increase our animosities they are too large and too great already , nor to condemn any humble and modest dissenters from us ; but i despair ever to see our divisions healed , till religion be brought from the fancies to the hearts of men ; and till men instead of mystical notions and unacccountable experiences , in stead of mis-applying promises and misunderstanding the spirit of prayer , instead of judging of themselves by mistaken signs of grace , set themselves to the practice of humility , selfdenial , meekness , patience , charity , obedience and a holy life and look on these as the greatest duties and most distinguishing characters of true christianity . and in doing of these there shall not only be a great reward in the life to come ; but in spight of all opposition from atheism , profaneness , or superstition , we may see our divisions cured and the kingdom of god , which is a kingdom of peace and holiness to abide and flourish among us . sermon ix . preached at white hall . whitsunday . john vii . xxxix . but this spake he of the spirit which they that believe on him should receive . for the holy ghost was not yet given , because that iesus was not yet glorified . what was said of old concerning the first creation of the world , that in order to the accomplishment of it a the spirit of god moved upon the face of the waters , is in a sense agreeable to the nature of it as true of the renovation of the world by the doctrine of christ. for whether by that we understand a great and vehement mind , as the jews generally do ; or rather the divine power manifesting it self in giving motion to the otherwise dull and unactive parts of matter ; we have it fully represented to us in the descent of the holy ghost upon the apostles on the day of pentecost : for that came upon them , a as a rushing mighty wind and inspired them with a new life and motion , whereby they became the most active instruments of bringing the world out of that state of confusion and darkness it lay in before , by causing the glorious light of the gospel to shine upon it . and left any part should be wanting to make up the parallel , in the verse before the text , we read of the waters too which the spirit of god did move upon , and therefore called not a dark abyss , but flowing rivers of living water . b he that believeth on me , as the scripture hath said , out of his bellie shall flow rivers of living water : not as though the apostles like some in the ancient fables were to be turned into fountains and pleasant springs ; but the great and constant benefit which the church of god enjoys by the plentiful effusion of the holy spirit upon them , could not be better set fotth than by rivers of living water flowing from them . and this the evangelist in these words , to prevent all cavils and mistakes , tells us was our saviours meaning ; but this spake he of the spirit which they that believe on him should receive . and lest any should think that our blessed saviour purposely affected to speak in strange metaphors , we shall find a very just occasion given him for using this way of expression from a custom practised among the jews at that time . for in the solemnity of the feast of tabernacles , especially in the last and great day of the feast mentioned v. . after the sacrifices were offered upon the altar , one of the priests was to go with a large golden tankard to the fountain of siloam , and having filled it with water , he brings it up to the water-gate over against the altar , where it was received with a great deal of pomp and ceremony , with the sounding of the trumpets and rejoycing of the people which continued during the libation or pouring it out before the altar ; after which followed the highest expressions of joy that were ever used among that people ; insomuch that they have a saying among them , that he that never saw the rejoycing of the drawing of water , never saw rejoycing in all his life . of which several accounts are given by the jews , some say it had a respect to the later rain which god gave them about this time , others to the keeping of the law , but that which is most to our purpose is , that the reason assigned by one of the rabbies in the ierusalem c talmud is d because of the drawing or pouring out of the holy ghost according to what is said , with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation . by which we see that no fairer advantage could be given to our saviour to discourse concerning the effusion of the holy ghost , and the mighty joy which should be in the christian church by reason of that , than in the time of this solemnity ; and so lets them know that the holy ghost represented by their pouring out of water was not to be expected by their rites and ceremonies but by believing the doctrine which he preached : and that this should not be in so scant and narrow a measure as that which was taken out of siloam which was soon poured out and carried away but out of them on whom the holy ghost should come , rivers of living waters should flow ; whose effect and benefit should never cease as long as the world it self should continue . so that in the words of the text we have these particulars offered to our consideration . . the effusion of the spirit under the times of the gospel ; but this spake he of the spirit which they that believe on him should receive . . the nature of that effusion represented to us by rivers of living waters flowing out of them . . the time that was reserved for it ; which was after the glorious ascension of christ to heaven : for the holy ghost was not yet given , because that iesus was not yet glorified . . the effusion of the spirit under the times of the gospel ; by which we mean those extraordinary gifts and abilities which the apostles had after the holy ghost is said to descend upon them . which are therefore called a signs and wonders , and divers gifts of the holy ghost : b and the operations of the spirit ; of which we have a large enumeration given us in that place . the two most remarkable which i shall insist upon and do comprehend under them most of the rest , are , the power of working miracles whether in healing diseases or any other way ; and the gift of tongues either in speaking or interpreting ; they who will acknowledge that the apostles had these , will not have reason to question any of the rest . and concerning these i shall endeavour to prove , . that the things attributed to the apostles concerning them , could not arise from any ordinary , or natural causes . . that they could not be the effects of an evil , but of a holy and divine spirit ; and therefore that there was really such a pouring out of the spirit as is here mentioned . . that the things attributed to the apostles could not arise from any meerly natural causes . it is not my present business to prove the truth of the matters of fact , viz. that the apostles did those things which were accounted miracles by those who saw them or heard of them ; and that on the day of pentecost they did speak with strange tongues ; for these things are so universally attested by the most competent witnesses viz. persons of the same age whose testimony we can have no reason to suspect ; and not only by those who were the friends to this religion , but the greatest enemies jews and heathens ; and by all the utmost endeavors of atheistical men who have not set themselves to disprove the testimony , but the consequence of it , ( by saying that granting them true they do not infer the concurrence of a divine spirit ) that on the same grounds any person would question the truth of these things , he must question the truth of some other things , which himself believes on the same or weaker grounds than these are . supposing then the matters of fact to be true , we now enquire whether these things might proceed from any meerly natural causes , which will be the best done by examining the most plausible accounts which are pretended to be given of them . and thus some have had the confidence to say , that whatever is said to be done by the power of miracles in the apostles might be effected by a natural temperament of body , or the great power of imagination ; and that their speaking with strange tongues might be the effect only of a natural enthusiasm , or some distemper of brain . . that the power of miracles might be nothing but a natural temperament or the strength of imagination . . an excellent natural temper of body they say may do strange and wonderful things , so that such a one who hath an exact temperament may walk upon the waters , stand in the air , and quench the violence of the fire ; and by a strange kind of sanative contagion may communicate healthful spirits , as persons that are infected do noisom and pestilential . these are things spoken with as much ease and as little reason , as any of the calumnies against religion , which are so boldly uttered by men who dare speak any thing as to these things but reason , and do any thing but what is good . . but can these men after all their confidence produce any one person in the world , who by the exquisiteness of his natural temper hath ever walked upon the waters , or poised himself in the air , or kept himself from being singed in the fire ? if these things be natural how comes it to pass that no other instances can be given but such as we urge for miraculous ? we say indeed that a christ walked on the sea , but withal we say this was an argument of that divine power in him , which as iob saith , b alone spreadeth out the heavens and treadeth upon the waves of the sea : we say that c elijah was carried up into heaven by a chariot of fire and a whirlewind ; but it was only by his power , d who maketh the winds his messengers , and flames of fire his ministers , as some render those words of the psalmist : we say that the three children were preserved a in the fiery fornace , that they had no hurt ; and even nebuchadnezzar was hereby convinced , that he was the true god , which was able to preserve his servants from the force of that devouring element which was therefore so much worshipped by those eastern people because it destroyed not only the men but the gods of other nations . but is this enough to satisfie any reasonable men that these things were done by natural causes ; because they were done at all ? for that is to suppose it impossible there should be miracles ; which is to say it is impossible there should he a god ; which is an attempt somewhat beyond what the most impudent atheists pretended . but in this case nothing can be reasonably urged but common experience to the contrary ; if these were things which were usually done by other causes there would be no reason to pretend a miraculous power : but we say it is impossible that such things should be produced by meer natural causes , and in this case there can be no confutation but by contrary experience . as we see the opinion of the ancients concerning the uninhabitableness of the the torrid zone , and that there were no antipodes , are disproved by the manifest experience to the contrary of all modern discoverers . let such plain experience be produced , and we shall then yield the possibility of the things by some natural causes , although not by such an exact temperament of body , which is only an instance of the strong power of imagination in those who think so whatever that may have on others . such a temperament of body as these persons imagine , considering the great inequality of the mixture of the earthy and aërial parts in us , being it may be as great a miracle it self , as any they would disprove by it . . but supposing such a temperament of body to be possible , how comes it to be so beneficial to others , as to propagate its vertue to the cure of diseased persons ? we may as well think that a great beauty may change a black by osten viewing him , or a skilful musitian make another so by sitting near him , as one man heal another because he is healthful himself . unless we can suppose it in the power of a man to send forth the best spirits of his own body and transfuse them into the body of another ; but by this means that which must cure another must destroy himself . besides the healthfulness of a person lies much in the freedom of perspiration of all the noxious vapours to the body ; by which it will appear incredible that a man should preserve his own health by sending out the worst vapors and at the same time cure another , by sending out the best . . supposing we should grant that a vigorous heat and a strong arm may by a violent friction discuss some tumor of a distempered body ; yet what would all this signifie to the mighty cures which were wrought so easily and with a word speaking and at such great distance as were by christ and his apostles ? supposing , our saviour had the most exact natural temper that ever any person in the world had ; yet what could this do to the cure of a person above twenty miles distance ? for so our saviour cured the son of a nobleman who lay sick at capernaum , when himself was at a cana in galilee ? so at b capernaum he cured the centurions servant at his own house without going thither . thus we find the apostles curing though c they did not touch them ; and that not one or two but multitudes of diseased persons . and nothing can be more absurd than to imagine that so many men should at the same time work so many miraculous cures by vertue of a temperament peculiar to themselves : for how come they only to happen to have this temperament and none of the jews who had all equal advantages with them for it ? why did none of the enemies of christ do as strange things as they did ? how come they never to do it before they were christians , nor in such an extraordinary manner till after the day of pentecost ? did the being christians alter their natural temper and infuse a sanative vertue into them which they never had before ? or rather was not their christianity like to have spoyled it if ever they had it before ; by their frequent watchings , fastings , hunger and thirst , cold and nakedness , stripes and imprisonments , racks and torments ? are these the improvers of an excellent constitution ? if they be , i doubt not but those who magnifie it in them , would rather want the vertue of it , than be at the pains to obtain it . . but what a natural temper cannot do , they think the power of imagination may : and therefore in order to the enervating the power of miracles , they mightily advance that of imagination : which is the idol of those who are as little friends to reason in it as they are to religion . any thing shall be able to effect that , which they will not allow god to do : nay the mostextravagant thing which belongs to humane nature shall have a greater power than the most holy and divine spirit . but do not we see , say they , strange effects of the power of imagination upon mankind ? i grant we do , and in nothing more than when men set it up against the power of god : yet surely we see far greater effects of that in the world than we do of the other . the power of imagination can never be supposed to give a being to the things we see in the world ; but we have the greatest reason to attribute that to a divine and infinite power ; and is it not far more rational that that which gave a being to the course of nature should alter it when it pleaseth , than that which had nothing to do in the making of it . so that in general , there can be no competition between the power of god and the strength of imagination as to any extraordinary effects which happen in the world . but this is not all ; for there is a repugnancy in the very nature of the thing that the power of imagination should do all those miracles which were wrought by christ or his apostles . for either they must be wrought by the imagination of the agent or of the patient : if of the agent , then there can be no more necessary to do the same things than to have the same strength of imagination which they had ; what is the reason then that never since or before that time were so many signs , and wonders wrought as there were then by the apostles and disciples of our lord ? if peter and iohn cured the lame man by the strength of imagination ; why have no persons ever since cured those whose welfare they have as heartily desired as ever they could do his ? certainly if imagination could kill mens enemies , there would never need duels to destroy them , nor authority to punish such as do it : and if it could cure friends , there would need no physitians to heal and recover them and death would have nothing to do , but with persons that were wholly friendless . if they say , that persons are not sufficiently perswaded of their own power ; and therefore they do see little good ; let any of those who contend the most for it attempt the cure when they please of any the most common infirmity of mankind ; and if they cannot do that , let them then perswade us they can do miracles by that , which they cannot cure the tooth-ach by . but here they will say , the imagination of the patient is necessary in order to a miracle being wrought upon him : not such i am sure as christ and his apostles wrought , who not only healed the lame and the blind , but raised the dead ; and what power of imagination do they suppose in lazarus when he had lain four days in the grave ? and however they think of the soul they must in this case allow this power of imagination to be immortal . so that were there no other arguments but that of raising the dead that demonstrates it impossible that what christ or his apostles did , did depend on the strength of fancy in those on whom they wrought their miracles . object . but , say they , did not christ and his apostles require believing first in all persons that had miracles wrought upon them ; and why should this be , but because the strength of imagination was required to it . and is it not expresly said , that christ could not do any mighty works among his own country men because of their unbelief ; by which it appears that the efficacy of his miracles did depend on the faith of the persons . to which i answer , answ. . that christ did not always require faith in the person on whom he wrought his miracles ; for then it had been impossible he should ever have raised any from the dead ; which we are sure he did . and did not a st. paul raise eu●ychus from the dead ? and can any think so absurdly as that faith was required from a dead man in order to his resurrection ? so that the greatest miracles of all others were wrought , where there was no possibility of believing in those on whom they were wrought . . when in miraculous cures believing was required it was to shew for what end those miracles were wrought , viz. to confirm the doctrine of the gospel by them : they did not work miracles to be admired by the people as simon magus would have done ; the apostles had no such intolerable vanity to be cried up for gods , though they did such great things ; not like that caesar of the atheists as some call him , who concludes one of his b dialogues with that horrible piece of vanity ( to say no more of it ) aut deus es aut vaninus , and pomponatius his master before him had said c philosophi sunt dii terrestres , ( and you must be sure to reckon him in the number ; ) but how was it possible for these men to discover more their mean thoughts of a deity than by making him to be as despicable as themselves ? what boasting and ostentation would these men have made of themselves , if they could have done but the thousand part of what the apostles did ? but they were men did as far excel all such in all true vertue and real excellency as they did in that miraclous power which god had given them . if they required men to believe whom they cured , it was that they might cure both body and soul together : but sometimes they cured persons whom they saw not : as the d hankerchiefs from st. paul at ephesus cured the diseased when they were carried to them . but generally they took all opportunities to convey the doctrine of christianity into the minds of those , out of whose bodies they cast either diseases or devils . but is it not said that christ could do no mighty works among them because of their unbelief , and the power of his disciples could not be greater than his own ? to which i answer , . it is no where said in the scripture that christ could do no miracles at all among them because of their unbelief : for in one place it is said , a and he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief . he did miracles enough to convince them ; but when he saw their obstinacy , he would not cast away any more upon them . and in that other place where it is said , b that he could there do no mighty work , it is presently added , save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk and healed them . and what absurdity is there that christ should do no extraordinary miracle among them , among whom he saw that himself and his miracles were both equally contemned . it is not the method of divine goodness to bestow the largest kindnesses at first ; those who improve the beginnings of savour shall have more , but those who despise the first may justly be rejected from any farther kindness . . when it is said that he could not , that expression doth not imply any impossibility in the thing but a deliberate resolution to the contrary , so it is used acts . . c for we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard . who questions but there was a possibility in the thing , that they might have held their peace ? but it was a thing which upon great deliberation they had resolved not to do . so d thou canst not bear them which are evil ; and e we can do nothing against the truth ; but for the truth . from which it appears that this can be no prejudice to the power of christ in working miracles , but only shews his just resolution not to do it , considering the contempt wherewith he had been entertained among them . . it is pretended by those men who set themselves to undervalue those miraculous gifts which the apostles had , that the gift of tongues might be only the effect of an enthusiastick heat , or some distemper of their brains , as men in a high fever are apt to speak such things and words , which while they are in health they could never do . but that such unreasonable imaginations do more argue a distempered brain , than any thing we assert concerning these divine persons will easily appear from these considerations . . that no violent heat whatsoever can form a new language to a man which he never knew before . if language had been natural to man there might have been some reason for it ; but that we all know to be an arbitrary thing : and as well might a blind man paint with an exact difference of colours , or one write plainly who could never read , as any person by the meer heat of his phancy speak suddenly in a tongue which he never learnt . there have been some who have said f that the mind of man hath naturally all kinds of languages within it self , and it wants nothing but some mighty heat to stir men up to speak in any kind of them . but we are to take notice that those things are accounted wit when spoken against religion , which would have been non-sense and contradictions if spoken for it . and certainly nothing could be more absurdly said , than for the same men to make all the imaginations we have of things to come in by our senses , and yet to say that the mind of man can have those things in it , which he never learnt or heard . if this supposion were true we might invert that saying of a festus to st. paul much learning hath made thee mad ; for then madness or that which is the next to it , a great heat of brain , would make men the most learned . if this were true , there would be a much easier way of attaining to speak in the languages of all nations than that which many take to gain a very few of them : for the heightening of phancy either by wine , or a degree of madness would inspire men with skill in tongues to a miracle . . but supposing such a thing possible , which is far from being so , yet it is very remote from our present case ; for the apostles made it manifest to all persons that they were far enough from being inspired with the vapours of wine or touched with any enthusiastick madness . they spake with strange tongues , but in such a manner as convinced great numbers of their hearers of the excellency of that doctrine which was delivered by them . as st. paul answered festus , b i am not mad most noble festus , but speak forth the words of truth and soberness ; so they did not speak incoherent and insignificant words which madness makes men do , nor any mean and trivial things , meerly for ostentation of their gifts , but they spake though with divers tongues , c the great or wonderful things of god : so their auditors confessed with admiration . these are not the effects of wine or madness as st. peter at large proves , against the unreasonable cavils of some d who mocked and said they were full of new wine . which he doth with so great success that the same day persons disowned their former course of life and embraced christianity . surely , madness was never more infectious , never made men more wise and sober , than this did , if the apostles were acted only by that . when was there ever better and more weighty sense spoken by any , than by the apostles after the day of pentecost ? with what reason do they argue , with what strength do they discourse , with what a sedate and manly courage do they withstand the opposition of the sanhedrin against them ? they never fly out into any extravagant passion , never betray any weakness or fear : but speak the truth with boldness and rejoyce when they suffer for it . it could be no sudden heat which acted them on the day of pentecost , for the same spirit and power continued with them afterwards : they lived and acted by vertue of it , so that their life was as great a miracle , as any that was wrought by them . their zeal was great but regular , their devotion servent and constant , their conversation honest and prudent , their discourses inflaming and convincing , and the whole course of their lives breathed nothing but glory to god , and good will towards men . if they are called to suffer for their religion , with what constancy do they own the truth , with what submission do they yield to their persecutors , with what meekness and patience do they bear their sufferings ! if differences arise among christians , with what care do they advise , with what caution do they direct , with what gentleness do they instruct , with what tenderness do they bear with diffenters , with what earnestness do they endeavour to preserve the peace of the christian church ! when they are to plant churches , how ready to go about it , how diligent in attending it , how watchful to prevent all miscarriages among them ! when they write epistles to those already planted , with what authority do they teach , with what majesty do they command , with what severity do they rebuke , with what pity do they chastise , with what vehemency do they exhort , and with what weighty arguments do they perswade all christians to adorn the doctrine of god their saviour in all things ! so that such persons who after all these things can believe that the apostles were acted only by some extravagant heats may as easily perswade themselves that men may be drunk with sobriety , and mad with reason , and debauched with goodness . but such are fit only to be treated in a dark room , if any can be found darker than their understandings are . . but yet there may be imagined a higher sort of madness than these men are guilty of . viz. that when men are convinced that these things could not be done by meer mechanical causes , then they attribute them to the assistance of spirits , but not to the holy and divine , but such as are evil and impure . a madness so great and extravagant , that we could hardly imagine that it were incident to humane nature , unless the scripture had told us that some had thus blasphemed the son of man , and either had or were in danger of blaspheming the holy ghost too . and this is properly blaspheming the holy ghost , ( which was not given , as our text tells us , till after christs ascension ) when men attribute all those miraculous gifts which were poured out upon the apostles in confirmation of the christian doctrine to the power of an unclean spirit . for so the evangelist st. luke , when he mentions the a blasphemy against the holy ghost which shall not be forgiven immediately subjoyns ; their bringing the apostles to the synagogues and magistrates and powers ; and adds , that the holy ghost , ( even that which they so blasphemed in them ) should teach them in that same hour what they ought to say . i deny not but the attributing the miraculous works of christ who had the holy spirit without measure , to an evil spirit was the same kind of sin ; but it received a greater aggravation after the resurrection of christ from the dead , and the miraculous effusion of the holy ghost upon the apostles . for now the great confirmation was given to the truth of all that christ had said before ; he had some times concealed his miracles and forbid the publishing of them : and to such he appeared but as the son of man , of whom it is said b that had they known him they would not have crucified the lord of glory : and st. peter more expresly ; c and now brethren i wote that through ignorance you did it as did also your rulers . but now since his resurrection and ascension when god by the effusion of the holy ghost hath given the largest and fullest testimony to the doctrine of the gospel ; if men after all this shall go on to blaspheme the holy ghost , by attributing all these miracles to a diabolical power , then there is no forgiveness to be expected either in this world , or the world to come , because this argues the greatest obstinacy of mind , the highest contempt of god , and the greatest affront that can be put upon the testimony of the holy spirit ; for it is charging the spirit of truth to be an evil and a lying spirit . by which we see what great weight and moment the scripture lays upon this pouring out of the holy ghost on the apostles , and what care men ought to have how they undervalue and despise it , and much more how they do reproach and blaspheme it . they might as well imagine that light and darkness may meet and embrace each other , as that the infernal spirits should imploy their power in promoting a doctrine so contrary to their interest ? for heaven and hell cannot be more distant , than the whole design of christianity is from all the contrivances of wicked spirits . how soon was the devil's kingdom broken , his temples demolished , his oracles silenced , himself baffled in his great design of deceiving mankind when christianity prevailed in the world ? having thus far asserted the truth of the thing viz. that there was such an effusion of the holy spirit , now come to consider . . the nature of it as it is represented to us by rivers of living waters flowing out of them that believe : by which we may understand . the plenty of it called rivers of waters . . the benefit and usefulness of it to the church . . the plentifulness of this effusion of the spirit ; there had been some drops , as it were , of this spirit which had fallen upon some of the jewish nation before ; but those were no more to be compared with these rivers of waters , than the waters of siloam which run softly , with the mighty river euphrates . what was the spirit which bezaleel had to build the a tabernacle with , if compared with that spirit which the apostles were inspired with for building up the church of god ? what was that b spirit of wisdom which some were filled with to make garments for aaron , if compared with that spirit of wisdom and revelation which led the apostles into the knowledge of all truth ? what was that spirit of courage which was given to the iudges of old , if compared with that spirit which did convince the world of sin , of righteousness , and of judgement ? what was that spirit of moses which was communicated to the . elders , if compared with that spirit of his son , which god hath shed abroad in the hearts of his people ? what was that spirit of prophesie , which inspired some prophets in several ages , with that c pouring out of the spirit upon all flesh ; which the apostle tells us was accomplished on the day of pentecost ? but these rivers of waters though they began their course at ierusalem upon that day , yet they soon overflowed the christian church in other parts of the world . the sound of that rushing mighty wind was soon heard in the most distant places : and the fiery tongues inslamed the hearts of many who never saw them . these gifts being propagated into other churches , and many other tongues were kindled from them as we see how much this gift of tongues obtained in the church of corinth : and so in the history of the acts of the apostles , we find after this day how the holy ghost fell upon them which believed , and what mighty signs and wonders were done by them . . the benefit and usefulness of this effusion of the spirit ; like the rivers of waters that both refresh and enrich , and thereby make glad the city of god. the coming down of the spirit was like d the pouring water upon him that is thirsty , and floods upon the dry ground ▪ now e god opened the rivers in high places , and fountains in the midst of the valleys ; that the poor and needy who seek water might be refreshed , and they whose tongues failed for thirst might satisfy themselves with living water . these are some of the lofty expressions whereby the courtly prophet isaiah sets forth the great promise of the spirit ; none better befitting the mighty advantages the church of god hath ever since enjoyed by the pouring out of the spirit than these . for the fountain was opened in the apostles , but the streams of those rivers of living water have run down to our age : not confined within the banks of tiber , nor mixing with the impure waters of it ; but preserved pure and unmixed in that sacred doctrine contained in the holy scripture . within those bounds we confine our faith , and are not moved by the vain discourses of any who pretend to discover a new fountain head to these waters at rome ; and would make it impossible for them to come down to us through any other channel but theirs . but supposing they had come to us through them , have they thereby gotten the sole disposal of them , that none shall tast but what and how much they please ? and must we needs drink down the filth and mud of their channel too ? as long as they suffer us to do what christ hath commanded us to do , viz. a to take of these waters of life freely we do our own duty and quarrel not with them . but if they go about to stop the passage of them , or adulterate them with some forrain mixture , or strive with us as the herdsmen of gerar did with isaac's herdsmen saying the b water is ours , then if the name of the well be esek , if contentions do arise , the blame is not ours ; we assert but our own just right against all their encroachments . for as isaac pleaded c that he only digged again the wells of water which they had digged in the days of abraham his father , and although the philistins had stopped them after the death of abraham , yet that could be no hindrance to his right , but he might open them again , and call their names after the names by which his father had called them . so that is the substance of our plea , we pretend to nothing but to clear the passage which they have stopped up and was left free and open for us in the time of the apostles and fathers ; we desire not to be imposed upon by their later usurpations : we plead for no more but that the church of god may have the same purity and integrity which it had in the primitive times , and that things may not only be called by the names by which the fathers have called them ; but that they may be such as the fathers have left them . but otherwise let them boast never so much of the largeness of their stream , of the antiquitity of their channel , of the holiness of their waters , of the number of their ports and the riches of their trading ; nay and let them call their stream by the name of the ocean too ( if they please ) , yet we envy them not their adma● and pharpar and all the rivers of damascus , so we may sit down quietly by these living waters of iordan . we are contented with the miracles which the apostles wrought without forging or believing new ones ; we are satisfied with the gift of strange tongues which they had , we know no necessity now of speaking much less of praying in an unknown tongue : we believe that spirit infallible which inspired the apostles in their holy writtings and those we acknowledge , embrace and i hope are willing to dye for : but if any upstart spirit pretend to sit in an infallible chair , we desire not to be brought under bondage to it , till we see the same miracles wrought by vertue of it , which were wrought by the apostles to attest their infallibility . . the last thing to be spoken to , is , the season that this effusion of the spirit was reserved for , which was after the glorious ascension of christ to heaven . this was reserved as the great donative after his triumph over principalities and powers , when he was ascended up on high he sends down the greatest gift that ever was bestowed upon mankind viz. this gift of his holy spirit . hereby christ discovered the greatness of his purchase , the height of his glory , the exercise of his power , the assurance of his resurrection and ascension : and the care he took of his church and people ; by letting them see that he made good his last promise to them of sending them another comforter who should be with them to assist them in all their undertakings , to direct them in their doubts , to plead their cause for them against all the vain oppositions of men . and he should not continue with them for a little time as christ had done , but he should abide with them for ever i. e. so as not to be taken from them as himself was , but should remain with them , as a pledge of his love , as a testimony of his truth , as an earnest of gods favour to them now , and their future inheritance in heaven ; for he should comfort them by his presence , guide them by his counsel , and at last bring them to glory . nothing now remains but that as the occasion of our rejoycing on this day doth so much exceed that of the jews at their ceremony of pouring out the water ; so our joy should as much exceed in the nature and kind of it the mirth and jollity which was then used by them . with what joy did the israelites when they were almost burnt up with thirst in the wilderness cast of the pleasant streams which issued out of the rock ? a that rock saith the apostle was christ and the gifts of the spirit are that stream of living water which flows from him , and shall not we express our thankfulness for so great and unvaluable a mercy ? our joy cannot be too great for such a gift as this so it be of the nature of it i. e. a spiritual joy . the holy ghost ought to be the fountain of that joy which we express for gods giving him to his church . let us not then affront that good spirit , while we pretend to bless god for him let us not grieve him by our presumptuous sins , nor resist his motions in our hearts by our wilful continuance in them . the best way we can express our thankfulness is by yielding up our selves to be guided by him in a holy life , and then we may be sure our joy shall never end with our lives , but shall be continued with a greater fulness for ever more . sermon x. preached at white-hall . march . . isaiah lvii . xxi . there is no peace , saith my god to the wicked . if we were bound to judge of things only by appearance , and to esteem all persons happy who are made the object of the envy of some and the flattery of others , this text would seem to be a strange paradox , and inconsistent with what daily happens in the word . for what complaint hath been more frequent among men almost in all ages , than that peace and prosperity hath been the portion of the wicked , that their troubles have not been like other mens , that none seem to enjoy greater pleasures in this world than they who live as if there were no other ? the consideration of which hath been a matter of great offence to the weak , and of surprise to the wisest ; till they have searched more deeply into the nature of these things ( which the more men have done the better esteem they have always had of divine providence ) and from thence have understood that the true felicity of a mans life lies in the contentment of his own mind , which can never arise from any thing without himself , nor be enjoyed till all be well within . for when we compare the state of humane nature with that of the beings inferiour to it , we shall easily find that as man was designed for a greater happiness than they are capable of ; so that cannot lie in any thing which he enjoys in common with them , ( such as the pleasures of our senses are ) but must consist in some peculiar excellencies of his being . and as the capacity of misery is always proportionable to that of happiness ; so the measure and the kind of that must be taken in the same manner that we do the other . where there is no sense of pleasure there can be none of pain ; where all pleasure is confined to sense , the pain must be so too ; but where the greatest pleasures are intellectual , the greatest torments must be those of the mind . from whence it follows that nothing doth so much conduce to the proper happiness of man , as that which doth the most promote the peace and serenity of his mind : nothing can make him more miserable than that which causeth the greatest disturbance in it . if we can then make it appear that the highest honours , the greatest riches , and the softest pleasures can never satisfie the desires , conquer the fears , nor allay the passions of an ungoverned mind , we must search beyond these things for the foundations of its peace . and if notwithstanding them there may be such a sting in the conscience of a wicked man , that may inflame his mind to so great a height of rage and fury , which the diversions of the world cannot prevent , nor all its pleasures cure : we are especially concerned to fix such a notion of mans happiness which either supposes a sound mind or else makes it so ; without which all the other things so much admired can no more contribute towards any true contentment than a magnificent palace , or a curiously wrought bed to the cure of the gout or stone . all which i speak , ( not as though i imagined any state of perfect tranquility or compleat happiness were attainable by any man in this present life : for as long as the causes are imperfect the effect must be so too : and those philosophers who discoursed so much of a happy state of life did but frame ideas in morals as they did in politicks , not as though it were possible for any to reach to the exactness of them , but those were to be accounted best which came the nearest to them : ) but i therefore speak concerning a happy state of life for these two reasons . . that though none can be perfectly happy , yet that some may be much more so than others are , i. e. they may enjoy far greater contentment of mind in any condition than others can do ; they can bear crosses , and suffer injuries with a more equal temper ; and when they meet with vicissitudes in the world they wonder no more at it , than to see that the wind changes its quarter , or that the sea proves rough and tempestuous which but little before was very even and calm . they who understand humane nature have few things left to wonder at ; and they who do the least wonder , are the least surprised ; and they who are the least surprised are the least troubled ; and those are the happiest men as this world goes , who meet with fewest troubles in it . the italians have a shrewd proverb , that there is less mony , less wisdom , less honesty in the world than men generally make account of ; i will not stand to maintain the truth of it , but the less men believe of these things , the less they are deceived , and the less they are deceived the less they are troubled . for no troubles are greater than those which are the most unexpected ; none are so unexpected as those which come upon men who are only undeceived by their own experience : for they undergo a great deal of trouble to gain a little wisdom whereas a true judgement and consideration of these things before hand , keeps the mind of man more steady and fixt amidst all the contingencies of humane affairs . by which we see that wisdom of it self hath a great influence upon the quiet and peace of mans mind and the happiness of his life : but if we add to that the inseparable property of true wisdom , viz. patience and submission to the will of god upon the consideration of his infinite wisdom and goodness , he must be strangely blind that cannot discern a greater peace and serenity following these two in the minds of men , than where folly and irreligion raign . thus far then we have gained , that wisdom and piety tend very much to the lessening the troubles of a mans life ; and therein lies the far greatest part of the happiness of this imperfect state. for it is a vain thing to expect in so open a condition as we live in here that no cross winds should blow upon us ; but if they only shake our branches and make our leaves fall , as long as the root holds firm and the body entire , the former beauty and glory will return again . it can be no disparagement to the most skilful pilot , to have his vessel tossed upon a tempestuous sea , but to escape with little damage when he sees others sink down and perish , shews the great difference which wisdom gives in the success , where the dangers are equal and common . so that not only some men may meet with fewer troubles in the world than others do ; but supposing they meet with the same , some are far more happy in passing through them than others are . and this is the fairest sense i know can be given of those otherwise extravagant speeches of the philosophers of old , concerning the wise man being happy in the bull of phalaris , or under the greatest racks and torments , not as though they could be so senseless to imagine that any man could be as happy in his torments as out of them ; but that taking him in the same state with another man who wants that constancy of mind which he hath , he may be said to be happy in respect of the other . by which we see that although no state of life can be said to be compleatly happy , yet some may be much nearer than others can be . which was necessary to be premised in order to the right understanding the design of our following discourse : which is to shew . . that some course of life to any man who considers what he doth , is utterly inconsistent with a state of peace and tranquillity ; i mean the course of sin and wickedness . so the prophet assures us from the mouth of god himself : in the words of the text . there is no peace saith my god to the wicked . which words are spoken on purpose by the prophet , to shew how much the wickedness of men doth hinder them from enjoying that peace and happiness which they might have had without it ; for in the foregoing words he represents god as shewing great pity to the scattered remainders of a broken and distressed people ; though he had punished them severely for their sins , and banished them out of their native country , yet he promiseth them , that those who put their trust in him should possess the land and again inherit his holy mountain . v. . and therefore speaks that the way might be cast up and prepared for their return , and every impediment taken out of the way , v. . for the high and lofty one who inhabits eternity ; will again dwell in his high and holy place , viz. at hierusalem ( so the words may be understood , for the hebrew verb is future ) but especially with those who were humbled for their sins , who are here called the humble and contrite ones . v. . for god would not always contend with them , for he knew they were not able to stand before him ; v. . and although his punishment of them was just for their sins , v. . yet god took notice of their repentance and would therefore heal their breaches , and conduct them back again to their own land , and thereby give so great an occasion of joy and triumph , that by it he is said to restore comforts to those who mourned for the calamities they lay under . 〈◊〉 . . yea he would grant them so much inward peace and outward prosperity , that they should far and near joyn in their praises to god for it ; and therefore he is said to create the fruit of the lips peace , peace , &c. but all this while they must have a care of deceiving themselves , though god did restore them to their own land with abundance of joy and peace , in expectation that the remembrance of their former calamities and the present blessings they enjoyed would make them abhor the sins which had provoked god to punish them ; yet if they should return to their wickedness again , or continue in it after so great mercies , they would soon find that their wickedness would overthrow their peace , and nothing but discontent and trouble would follow upon it ; as the natural product of it . for like the troubled sea that is tossed up and down with violent and impetuous winds , fomes and rages , one wave beating against another , and the effect of all this commotion is nothing but casting upon the neighbour shore a greater burden of unprofitable mire and dirt : such would the effect of their wickedness be among them , v. . it would make them restless and unquiet in themselves , having no one certain motion but tossed up and down with every contrary blast of wind , and producing nothing by all these various agitations but unprofitable counsels and unsuccesful designs . but lest the prophet should be supposed to speak all this out of discontent and passion , he confirms what he had said from the mouth of god in these few but smart words of the text. there is no peace , saith my god to the wicked . the words we see are general and indefinite , both as to the nature of the peace here mentioned , and the notion of wickedness implyed ; and therefore i shall handle them in their due extent by shewing that no one kind of true peace is consistent with any sort of prevailing wickedness : whether by peace we mean the peace a man hath with himself in the tranquillity of his mind ; or the peace which men have in society with one another . in either of these senses it will appear true , that there is no peace to the wicked . . taking peace , for the tranquillity of a mans mind ; in order to which it is necessary for a man to have some certain foundation to build his peace upon , and that he be secured from those things which will overthrow it ; both which shew it impossible for a wicked man to have any true peace in his mind , because he can have no certain grounds to build it upon ; and those things do accompany his wickedness , which will certainly overthrow it : . a wicked man can have no certain foundations for his peace . by which i do not mean any contracted dulness , or bruitish stupidity , which if we will call peace the most insensible parts of the creation do infinitely exceed us in it ; but such a composure and settlement of our minds , which ariseth from a due consideration of things ; and differs as much from the former temper as a vigorous and healthful state of body doth from the dull effects of a lethargy . and such a peace as this no wicked man can ever have but upon one of these suppositions . either ( . ) that wickedness is but a meer name of disgrace set upon some kind of actions , but that really there is no such a thing as sin , or the differences of good and evil ; or else , ( . ) supposing there is such a thing as sin , it is ridiculous to believe there ever should be such a punishment of it as men are affrighted with ; ( . ) or lastly , supposing there be a punishment of sin to come , it is madness to abstain from the present pleasures of sin for the fear of it . these being only the imaginable grounds a wicked man can have any peace in his mind from ; i shall particularly shew the falseness and the folly of them . . that there is no such thing as sin or wickedness in the world , and that the differences of good and evil are meerly arbitrary things , and that those are names only imposed upon things by the more cunning sort of men to affright men from the doing some actions , and to encourage them to do others . but what a miserable case are those in , who can never enjoy any contentment in themselves unless all the differences of good and evil be utterly destroyed ! we should conclude that mans condition desperate , who believes it impossible for him to have any ease in his mind , unless he could be transformed into the shape of a beast , or petrified into the hardness of a rock . these are things not utterly impossible , but yet they are possible in so remote a degree that it is all one to say , he can have no ease , as to say , that he expects it only upon those terms : but it is utterly inconsistent with the supposition of humane nature , or a being endued and acting with reason , to make all things equally good or evil . for what doth reason signifie as it respects the actions of men , but a faculty of discerning what is good and fitting to be done , from what is evil and ought to be avoided ? and to what purpose is such a faculty given us , if there be no such difference in the nature of things ? might not men with equal probability argue that there is no such thing as a difference in the things about which life and sense are conversant , as in those wherein reason is imploved ? with what impatience would those men be heard who should assert that there is no such thing as a difference in the qualities of meats and drinks , but that they do all equally tend to the preservation of life , that it is pedantical and beneath a gentleman to talk of any such thing as poisons , that will so suddenly and certainly destroy mens lives , and that these are things which none talk of or believe besides those whose trade is either to kill or cure men ? with how much wit and subtilty might a man argue upon these things , that it is impossible for any man to define what the nature of poison is , or in what manner it destroys the life of man , that men have conquered the malignity of it by use , and that the same things which have been poison to some , have been food and nourishment to others ? but notwithstanding all these plausible arguments , none of these brave spirits dare venture the experiment upon themselves : and yet these ( only changing the terms ) are the very same arguments used against the natural differences of good and evil ; viz. the difficulty of defining or setting the exact bounds of them , and the different customs or apprehensions of men in the world concerning the things which are called good and evil . if we proceed farther to the objects of sense ; how ridiculous would those persons appear that should with a mighty confidence go about to perswade men , that the differences between light and darkness , between pleasure and pain , between smells and tasts and noises are but phantastick and imaginary things ? who would ever believe that those are men of the most excellent sight to whom light and darkness are equal : ( for others who pretend not to so much wit , are wont to call such persons blind . ) or that those have the most exquisite sense , that feel no difference of pain and pleasure , ( which was wont to be thought the sign of no sense at all . ) and surely the persons i am now arguing against , love their palats too well , to admire those who can discern no difference of tasts ; and would be well enough contented to be thought deaf if they could put no distinction between the pleasant sound of vocal or instrumental musick , and the harsh jarring of two saws drawn cross each other . thus it appears that nothing would make men more ridiculous than to explode and laugh at the difference that there is in the means of life and the objects of sense : let us now proceed higher . dare any man say there is no such thing as reason in man , because there appears so little of the truth of it in men , and so much of the counterfeit of it in bruits ? or that there is no such thing as a difference of truth and fashood , because they are so commonly mistaken for one another ? what reason then imaginable can there be , that there should not be as wide a distance in the matters of our choice , as in the objects of our sense and understanding ? is it that we have natural faculties of sense and perception , but not of choice ? that , every one is able to resute by his constant experience , that finds a greater liberty in his choice , than in his perception . the reason of which is wholly unintelligible , unless a difference be found in the nature of the things proposed to his choice ; that some have a greater excellency and commendableness in them , more agreeable to humane nature , more satisfactory to the minds of those who choose them , than others are . and must all this difference be destroyed , meerly because all men are not agreed , what things are good and what evil ? we call goodness the beauty of the soul ; and do men question whether there be such a thing as beauty at all , because there are so many different opinions in the world about it ? or is deformity ever the less real because the several nations of the world represent it in a colour different from their own ? those arguments then against the natural differences of good and evil must needs appear ridiculous , which will be granted to hold in nothing else but only the thing in question . and yet in the midst of all the ruines and decays of humane nature , we find such evident footsteps and impressions of the differences of good and evil in the minds of men , which no force could extinguish , no time could deface ; no customs could alter . let us search the records of ancient times , and enquire into the later discoveries of nations , we shall find none so barbarous and bruitish as not to allow the differences of good and evil ; so far as to acknowledge , that there are some things which naturally deserve to be praised , and others which deserve to be punished . where as if good and evil were meerly names of things , there can be no reason assigned , why praise and honour should necessarily belong to some things and infamy and disgrace to follow others . if the things themselves be arbitrary , the consequences of them would be so too . but is it possible to imagine that any man should deserve to be punished as much for being true to his trust , as for betraying it ; for honouring his parents as for destroying them ; for giving to every one their due , as for all the arts of injustice and oppression ? is it possible for men to suffer as much in their esteem , for their fidelity , temperance , and chastity , as they always do for their falseness , intemperance , and lasciviousness ? how comes the very name of a lie to be a matter of so much reproach and dishonour , that the giving of it is thought an injury so great as cannot be expiated without the satisfaction of the givers blood , if it be in it self self so indifferent a thing ? nay , i dare appeal to the consciences of the most wicked persons , whether they are so well pleased with themselves , when they come reeking from the satisfaction of their lusts , and sodden with the continuance of their debaucheries , as when they have been paying their devotions to god , or their duties to their parents , or their respects to their country or friends ? is there not ( whether they will or no , ) an inward shame , and secret regret and disquiet following the one , and nothing but ease and contentment the other ? what should make this difference in those persons who love their vices far more than they do the other ? and if it were possible for them would bring vertue more out of countenance than sin is : yet after all their endeavors , though vice hath the stronger interest , vertue hath the greater reverence . thus considering humane nature as it is , we find indelible characters remaining upon it of the natural differences of good and evil ; but then if we consider it with a respect to the maker of it , that will cast a clearer light upon them , and make those characters appear more discernible . for nothing can be more absurd than to imagine a creature owing its being , and all it hath to the bounty of a being infinite in all perfections , and yet not to be obliged to give all honour , worship and service to it . to rip up the bowels of a mother to whom a man owes his coming into the world ; to assassinate a prince , to whom he owes all the honours and riches he hath in it ; are crimes of so black a nature , that the worst of men can hardly be supposed to commit them , nor the worst of devils to defend them : but to blaspheme god and to deride his service seems to have a much greater malignity in it , in as much , as our obligations to his honuor and service , are much greater than they can be to any created being . but if there be no natural differences of good and evil , even this must be accounted an indifferent thing , as well as the former : and what safety can there be in conversing with those men , whom no bonds of religion , nature , or gratitude can tye ? let us , if it were possible suppose a society of men constituted of such who make all things equally good and evil in their own nature , what a monstrous leviathan would they make among them ? no religion , no law , no kindness , no promises , no trust , no contracts could ever oblige them not to do any thing which they thought might be done with safety . by which it appears that these principles are so inconsistent with humane nature , and all the bonds of religion and duty , that whoever owns them must suppose mankind more savage than the beasts of prey , he must renounce his reason , destroy all religion , and disown a deity . for if there be a god , we must be inviolably bound to observe and obey him ; and the very notion of a god implies a being infinitely perfect ; and if there be such perfections in god , they cannot but be so in their own nature , and if they be so in their own nature they must in their degree be so in us as well as in him ; so that if goodness , holiness and righteousness be absolute perfections as they are in god , they must be perfections so far as they are in us ; and the contrary must be imperfections ; which makes the differences of good and evil so far from being arbitrary , that those things which agree to the perfections of god as well as his will must needs be good , and those which are repugnant to them must needs be evil . the result of all is , that if a wicked man can have no peace in his mind , without overthrowing the differences of good and evil , he can have no peace without the greatest violence offered to god , to nature , and himself , and if this be the way to peace let his reason judge . . the second foundation which a wicked man must build his peace upon is , that supposing there be such a thing as sin , yet that men have no cause to disturb themselves with the fears of so great a punishment to follow after , as that which sinners are afrighted with . but what security can a sinner have against the fears of punishment when his conscience condemns him for the guilt of his sins ? is it that god takes no notice at all of the actions of men , that he will not disturb his own eternal peace and happiness by observing all their follies ? so some of old imagined , who pretended that out of meer kindness to the deity they gave him his quietus est , and took from him as much as in them lay , the care and government of the world : but it was really a greater kindness to their lusts which made them do it , and makes many now a days so willing upon the same frivolous pretences to exclude the providence of god out of the world , for can any man who considers what god is think his providence inconsistent with his happiness ? if we speak of such weak and imperfect beings as the wisest of mankind are , it might not a little contribute to their peace to be eased of the cares of government . but the reason of that is because all things cannot be foreseen by them before they happen , nor well managed when they do , whence come oversights and disappointments and consequently all the uneasie effects of these . but when we speak of god , we speak of a being infinitely wise and powerful , from whom nothing can be hid , and whom nothing can resist : and what can be imagined more easie than for a conjunction of infinite wisdom and power , to contrive and manage all the affairs of the world ? if therefore wicked men could suppose that god could not know what they did , or could not punish them if he knew it , they might indulge themselves in greater security : but to suppose his wisdom so great that he cannot but know their actions , and his power so irresistible , that it is impossible for them to stand before him when he designs to punish , to flatter themselves with the hopes of impunity is an extravagant piece of folly and madness . or is it then , that though god doth take notice of their actions , he will not be so much displeased as to punish them ? but this is as repugnant to the justice and holiness of god , as the other was to his wisdom and power . will not the righteous god who hath made laws to govern mankind see to the execution of them ? for if he did not hate sin why did he so strictly forbid it ? if he doth hate sin , he will severely punish it . nay hath he not been severe already in the execution of his judgements upon the world for sin ? what did adam and his posterity suffer for the first sin ? what did the old world , sodom and gomorrah , the people of the jews suffer for their wickedness ? and is not he the same god still ? is his hand shortned that he cannot strike , or doth his heart fail that he dare not punish ? surely of all nations we have no cause to think so , and of all ages ; not in this of ours ; wherein we have smarted so much by the just displeasure of god against our sins . but where then lies the sinners hope ? is it at last , that though god may sometimes punish men in this life for their sins he will never do it in that to come ? if he could have said it was impossible he should do it , and proved it sufficiently , there might have been some ground for his security , but that is impossible he should ever do ; but to hope he will not do it when he hath declared that he will , is instead of bringing peace to his own mind to set god at variance with himself . for nothing can be more plainly revealed , more frequently inculcated , more earnestly pressed than a that there is a day of wrath to come , wherein the righteous judgement of god shall be revealed ; and wherein god will render to every man according to his deeds : wherein tribulation , and anguish and wrath shall be upon every soul of man that doth evil ; wherein the secrets of all hearts and actions shall be disclosed , when the graves shall be opened , b and they that have done good shall come forth to the resurrection of life , and they that have done evil to the resurrection of damnation . for the lord iesus himself even he who dyed for the salvation of all penitent sinners , c shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire , taking vengeance on them that know not god and obey not the gospel of christ , who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the lord and the glory of his power . then shall that dreadful sentence be passed upon all impenitent sinners , d depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels . which words are so full of horrour and astonishment as might not only disturb the sinners peace and security , but awaken him to such a sense of his sins , as to loath , abhorr and forsake them , and thereby flie from the wrath to come . . but after all this , is it possible to suppose , that any should think their present pleasures would countervail all the miseries of another life ? which is the last imaginable foundation for a sinners peace , while he continues in his wickedness . the most professed epicureans that ever were , made this one of their fundamental maxims , that no pleasure was to be chosen , which brought after it a pain greater than it self : on which account they made temperance and sobriety necessary to a pleasant life , because excesses and debaucheries leave far more of burden than of ease behind them . but what would these men have said , if they had believed the intolerable anguish of a tormented mind , the racks of an enraged conscience , the fire of everlasting vengeance to be the consequent of all the pleasures of sin ? they must upon their own principles have concluded that none but madmen and fools would ever venture upon them . and that not only because the after pain would so much exceed the present pleasure ; but because the fears of that pain to come must abate proportionably of the pleasure which might otherwise be enjoyed . suppose a man certainly knew that upon the pleasing his palat with the most excellent wine , and gratifying his appetite , with the most delicate food he must be racked with the stone , and tormented with the gout as long as he should live ; can we imagine such a person could have any pleasure in his mind ( whatever his palat had ) in the emjoyment of them while he did consider the consequent of them . but what are these miseries compared with the insupportable horrour of a conscience loaden with guilt , sunk under despair , having a gnawing worm and unquenchable flames ; the wrath of an almighty god , and the fury of his vengeance to encounter with , without the least hopes of conquering ? i do not now ask , what the sinner will then think of all his atheism and infidelity when the greatness of his miserie shall convince him that it is an almighty hand which lays it upon him ; nor what pleasure he can have in the thoughts of his former excesses , when not one drop can be procured for the mitigation of his flames ? nor what satisfaction those lusts have given him , the very thoughts of which pierce his soul , and if it were possible would rend him in pieces with the torment of them ? but that which i demand is , what peace of mind a sinner can have in this world who knows not how soon he may be dispatched to that place of torment ? can he bind the hands of the almighty , that he shall not snatch him away till he doth repent ? or can he reverse the decrees of heaven , or suspend the execution of them ? can he abrogate the force of his laws , and make his own terms with god ? can he dissolve the chains of darkness with a few death-bed tears , and quench the flames of another world with them ? o foolish sinners who hath bewitched them with these deceitful dreams ! will heaven-gates fly open with the strength of a few dying groans ? will the mouth of hell be stopt with the bare lamentation of a sinner ? are there such charms in some penitent words extorted from the fear of approaching misery , that god himself is not able to resist them ? certainly there is no deceit more dangerous , nor i fear more common in the world , than for men to think that god is so easie to pardon sin , that though they spend their lives in satisfying their lusts ; they shall make amends for all by a dying sorrow and a gasping repentance . as though the unsaying what we had done , or wishing we had done otherwise since we can do it no longer , ( for that is the bottom of all putting off repentance to the last ) were abundant compensation to the justice of god , for the affronts of his majesty , contempt of his laws , abuse of his patience , and all the large indictments of wilful and presumptuous sins , which the whole course of our lives is charged with . the supposal of which makes the whole design of religion signify very little in the world . thus we have examined the foundations of a sinners peace , and found them very false and fallacious : . we are now to shew that those things do accompany a sinners course of life which certainly overthrow his peace ; which are these two . . the reflections of his mind . . the violence of his passions . . the reflections of his mind , which he can neither hinder nor be pleased with . no doubt if it were possible for him to deprive himself of the greatest excellency of his being , it would be the first work he would do , to break the glass which shews him his deformity . for as our saviour saith a every one that doth evil hateth the light lest his deeds should be reproved ; not only the light without which discovers them , but that light of conscience within , which not only shines but burns too . hence proceeds that great uneasiness which a sinner feels within as often as he considers what he hath done amiss , which we call the remorse of conscience ; and is the natural consequent of the violence a man offers to his reason in his evil actions . it was thought a sufficient vindication of the innocency of two brothers by the roman judges , when they were accused for parricide ; that although their father was murthered in the same room where they lay , and no other person was found on whom they could fasten the suspicion of it , yet in the morning the door was open and they fast asleep . for as the orator saith , a no man can imagine , that those who had broken all the laws of god and nature by so great an act of wickedness could presently sleep upon it : for they who do such things can neither rest withoutcare , nor breath without fear . we are not to believe , saith he , the fables of the poets , as though wicked men were haunted and terrified with the burning torches of the furies ; but every mans wickedness is the greatest terrour to himself , and the evil thoughts which pursue wicked men are their constant and domestick furies . it would be endless to repeat what force the more civil heathens , have given to conscience either way , as to the peace which follows innocency , and the disquiet which follows guilt . which they looked on as the great thing which governed the world , b quâ sublatâ jacent omnia as the orator speaks , without which all things would be in great disorder , for these punishments they are sure not to escape , c though they may do others ; and these they thought so great and weighty that upon this ground they vindicated divine providence as to the seeming prosperity of wicked men , thinking it the most unreasonable thing in the world , to call those persons happy who suffered under the severe lashes of their own consciences . if there were such a force in the consciences of those who had nothing but the light of nature to direct them , how much greater weight must there be when d the terrours of the lord are made known by himself , e and the wrath of god revealed from heaven against all unrighteousness of men ? i know that wicked men in the height of their debaucheries pretend to be above these things , and are ready to laugh at them as the effects of a strong spleen and a weak brain : but i appeal to their most sober thoughts , when the steams of wine are evaporated , and the intoxication of evil company is removed from them , when in the deep and silent night , they revolve in their minds the actions of the foregoing day ; what satisfaction they then take in all the sinful pleasures they have pursued so eagerly ? but especially ; when either their lusts have consumed their bodies , or the vengeance of god hath overtaken them ; when death begins to seize upon their vitals , and themselves not wholly stupified through the power of their sins or their disease , let then , if it were possible , any represent the fears , the horrour and astonishment which the consciences of wicked men labour under in remembrance of their evil actions . how mean and poor would they leave themselves if with all their honours and riches they could purchase to themselves , a reprieve from death and from the miseries which follow after it ? what would they then give for the comfort of a good conscience , and the fruit of a holy , righteous , and sober life ? with what another sense of religion do men whose minds are awakened speak then , in comparison of what they did in the days of their mirth and jollity ? neither is this to take them at the greatest disadvantage , as some of them have been ready to say ; for i suppose their minds as clear then as at any time , and so much the clearer , because freed from the impediments of such freedom of their thoughts at another time ; for the same thoughts would have possessed them before , only the pleasures and the hopes of life diverted their minds from them , but now the nearness of the things they feared , and the weight and consequence of them make them more diligently examine and impartially consider them . but that demonstrates the great misery of a sinners state ; that what cures the other greatest troubles of our life doth the most increase his , which is the exercise of reason and consideration , that allays the power of griefs , that easeth the mind of vain fears , that prevents many troubles and cures others , that governs other passions and keeps them in their due bounds ; but this is it which of all things doth the most increase the trouble of a wicked mans mind ; for the more he considers , the worse he finds his condition ; and while he finds his condition so bad , he can never enjoy any peace in his mind . . the violence of his passions : those a wicked man hath lost the command of , or else he could never be a wicked man , and whosoever is under the power of any unruly passion forseits all his peace by it . for what peace can ever be expected in such a state of violence and usurpation , where the calm government of reason is cast off as an unnecessary burden , and every passion under the pretence of liberty sets up for an arbitrary power ? nay ▪ what confusion and disorder must needs follow , where the powers of the mind , which ought to keep all in order , are themselves in subjection to their own slaves : and none ever govern so ill as those which ought to obey . how serene and quiet is the mind of a man where the superiour faculties preserve their just authority ? how composed is his temper , how moderate his desires , how well governed his fears ! but where once that authority is lost , how extravagant is the rage of men , how unruly their lusts , how predominant their fears ! what peace had xerxes in his mind when in stead of conquering his foolish passion , he challenged mount athos into the field , and no doubt would have run fast enough if he had seen it moving ? what pleasure was it to see that mighty monarch whip the sea in a rage , as though the waves had been under his discipline , and would run the faster for the fear of his rod ? what harm had the hair of his head done to that man who pulled it off with the violence of his passion , as though as the philosopher told him , baldness would asswage his grief ? was ever varus the nearer to restoring his legions for augustus knocking his head against the wall in a rage about the loss of them ? what injury did neptune suffer , when he displaced his image in the circenstan games , because he had an ill voyage at sea ? what height of madness and folly did that modern prince's rage betray him to , who , as the french mora list saith , a having received a blow from heaven , sware to be revenged on almighty god , and for . years space forbid all publick exercise of devotion towards him ? i instance in these things to let us see there is nothing so ridiculous , nothing so absurd , nothing so irreligious but a violent passion may betray men to . and if such things ever break forth into actions , what may we conceive the inward disturbance is , where the outward shew ( which usually dissembles the inward passion ) , betrayed so much rage and disorder ; for where such flames break out , what combustion may we conceive within ? but it is not only this kind of passion which is so great an enemy to the peace of a mans mind , but when his desires are restless , and his fears unconquerable , and this is the case of every wicked man. his lusts inflame him and the means he uses to quench them inrage them more ; his ambition grows greater as his honour doth ; and there is no hopes of a cure , where the disease thrives under the remedy ; his love of riches is necessary to maintain his honour and feed his lusts ; and where passions so great , so many , so different all increase by being gratified what disturbance and confusion follows ? but supposing that vices in men may agree ( as the devils in hell do ) to the destruction of mens souls ; yet what security can a wicked man have against the power of his fears ? and we all know no passion disquiets more than that doth . and how many sorts of fears possess a sinners mind ? fears of disappointments , fears of discovery , and fears of punishment , but supposing he could master all the rest and the fears of punishment as to this life too ; yet the fears of that to come is sufficient to rob him of any peace in his mind , and impossible to be overcome by him . for no sound reason can be given against his fears , but the strongest arguments in the world to confirm them . nay the greatest grounds of others comforts are the strongest foundations for his fears , as the belief of a god , and providence , and a life to come : and what can give that man peace , whom the very thoughts of the god of peace doth disturb so much ? that is the first kind of peace we have shewed to be in consistent with a course of wickedness , which is the peace and tranquillity of a mans own mind . . taking this peace for an outward peace , and so these words not in respect of every person in particular and that peace which belongs to him as such , but as they are joyned together in community ; so they imply that nothing undermines our civil peace and the prosperity of a nation so much as prevailing wickedness doth . so that although mighty deliverances were given the people of the jews in a very strange and unexpected manner , when god raised up cyrus his servant , a man from whom no kindness was expected , and made him the great instrument of setling the people in their land under their own lawful princes , and restored the true worship of god among them , yet if they grew wanton in the days of their prosperity , and forgat the god who delivered them , they must expect a return of calamities again upon them ; for there is no peace saith my god to the wicked . i. e. this is the method of his providence , and the way he useth in governing the world ; while religion and vertue flourish among them , they may hope for peace and prosperity ; but if those decay and sin and wickedness prevail , no other arts imaginable will secure a lasting peace , or an abiding tranquillity . all other ways are but tricks and devices , and there are many of them in the hearts of men , but the counsel of the lord that shall stand against them all ; and that counsel he hath declared himself by the mouth of another prophet , a at what instant i shall speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom to build and to plant it , if it do evil in my sight that it obey not my voice , then will i repent of the good , wherewith i said i would benefit them . thus we find it was in this people of the jews , upon their first return from captivity they shewed some zeal towards the rebuilding the temple and setling the worship of god there ; but this fit did not hold them long , they soon fell back to their former sins and disobedience to the laws of god , upon this they brake out into greater schisms and factions in matters of religion than ever were known among them before ; for then the pharisees fell into a seperation under a pretence of greater sanctity and severity of life , and these by their shew of zeal gained a mighty interest among the people ; so great that the princes stood in awe of them : then the sadducees ( who were most part courtiers as iosephus tells us ) out of opposition to the other looked on religion as a meer political institution , cryed out against faction and popularity , and questioned at least whether there were any spirits or life to come . and what peace followed upon these things ? very little among themselves we may be sure by the heats and animosities that were continually among them ; the issue of which was , the temple was profaned by antiochus , rifled by pompey ; their own princes deposed and usurpers ruled over them ; and when the son of god himself could not reclaim them , their temple , nation , and government were all involved in one common ruin . thus we see how these words of the prophet were fulfilled upon this people . but some have been ready to say that gods proceedings with the iews ought not to be drawn into an example to any other nations , because his dealings with them were peculiar , and by vertue of a particular covenant which god made with them , which he hath not done with any other nation in the world . this objection were of great force , if god himself had not in the words before mentioned , declared the same concerning any other nation or kingdom , and if the instances were not as remarkable in other people as in that of the jews . if we search the monuments of former ages , and consider the strange revolutions which have happened in the mighty emipres and kingdoms of the world ; we shall find no one circumstance more considerable in them than this , that the nations which god hath made use of for a scourge to others have been remarkable for nothing so much , as for the vertues opposite to the most prevailing vices among those who were overcome by them . thus when the chaldean monarchy fell , the persians who were the sword in gods right hand , were eminent for nothing more than their great temperance and frugality , while the babylonians perished by their luxury and effeminacy . and when the persian monarchy degenerated into the same vices , the macedonians were raised up to be the executioners of gods wrath upon them , because they were at that time freer than any other people from those softening and destroying vices . and when the persian luxury had infected their conquerours the severe disciplin and vertue of the romans made them more successful in subduing the remainders of the graecian empire , than their courage and number could . and when the romans themselves ( after a long time of gods forbearance with them , and several respites from punishment by the vertue and conduct of such excellent princes as antoninus and alexander severus in the heathen , and constantine and theodos●us in the christian empire ) fell into as great a degeneracy of manners as any we ever read of , then did god let loose ( as it were ) the goths and vandals and other barbarous nations out of their several dens who seemed to be designed rather to destroy than to conquer . so sudden , so numerous , so irresistible in most places were the incursions they made . but what was it which gave them so strange success ? was it their long practice and skill in military affairs ? no , they were rude and unexperienced : was it their mighty courage ? no , they were despised by the romans as great cowards , and begged for peace when it was denyed them . but as a salvian tells us who lived in those times and knew the manners of both sides , the goths and vandals were of a very severe chastity , among whom fornication was punished sharply , and adultery a crime scarce heard of ; whereas all manner of uncleanness and licentiousness did abound among the romans , who yet were then called christians . the goths were devout and pious , acknowledging divine providence , making their solemn supplications to god before their victories , and returning him the praise of them afterwards ; but the romans were fallen into that degree of irreligion and atheism that nothing was more common among them than to droll upon religion . b a nostris omnia fermè religiosa ridentur , as salvian speaks : they thought all things managed by chance or fate and ascribed very little to god. and where these sins abounded most , they were carried up and down as by a divine instinct , as they confessed themselves , and where they conquered , c as he particularly speaks of the vandals in africa , they purged all the stews of uncleanness , and made so great a reformation by the severity of their laws , that even the romans themselves were chast among them . thus we see how those great and mighty empires have been broken to pieces by the weight of their impieties falling upon them . may the consideration then of these things move us in time to a reformation of our lives , before our iniquities grow full and ripe for vengeance . we have seen many revolutions , and god knows how many more we may see ; if that should be true of us , which the same author saith of the romans in the midst of all their changes sola tantum vitia perdurant , their vices remained the same still . thanks be to god , that things have a fairer appearance at present than they have had , and never so good a time to amend as now : but if men flatter themselves with present security , and their sins increase as their fears abate , the clouds which seem dispersed may soon gather again , and the face of the heavens will change if we do not . and if it be not in our power to reclaim others from their sins , let us endeavour to preserve the honour of our church by amending our own , and convince our enemies by living better than they . and give me leave to say , and so i conclude , that among all the expedients which have been thought of for the peace of this church and nation , that of leaving off our sins , and leading vertuous and exemplary lives , will at last prove to be the most successful . sermon xi . preached at white hall . mrrch . . ii corinth . v. ii. knowing therefore the terrour of the lord , we perswade men . if ever any religion was in all respects accomplished for so noble a design as the reformation of mankind , it was the christian , whether we consider the authority of those who first delivered it , or the weight of the arguments contained in it , and their agreeableness to the most prevailing passions of humane nature . although the world was strangely degenerated before the coming of christ ; yet not to see great a degree , but that there were some who not only saw the necessity of a cure , but offered their assistance in order to it ; whose attemps proved the more vain and fruitless , because they laboured under the same distempers themselves which they offered t●… cure in others ; or the method they prescribed was mean and trivial , doub●ful and uncertain , or else too nice and subtle to do any great good upon the world . but ch●istianity had not only a mighty advantage by the great holiness of tho●e who preached it ; but by the clearness and evidence , the strength and efficacy of those arguments which they used to perswade men . the nature of them is such , that none who understand them can deny them to be great , their clearne●s such , that none that hear them can choo●e but understand them , the manner of recommending them such , as all who understood themselves could not but desire to hear them . no arguments can be more proper to mankind than those which work upon their reason and consideration , no motives can stir up mo●e to the exercise of this than their own happiness and misery ; no happinoss and misery can deserve to be so much considered as that which is eternal . and this eternal state is that which above all other things the christian religion delivers with the greatest plainnes , confirms with the strongest evidence , and enforces upon the consciences of men with the most powerful and perswasive rhetorick . i need not go beyond my text for the proof of this , wherein we see that the apostles sesign was to perswade men i. e. to convince their judgements to gain their affections ; to reform their lives ; that the argument they u●ed for this end was no less than the terrour of the lord , not the frowns of the world nor the fear of men , nor the malice of devils ; but the terrour of the almighty , whose majesty makes even the devils tremble , whose power is irresisistible , and whose wrath is insupportable . but it is not the terrour of the lord in this world , which he here speaks of , although that be great enough to make us as miserable as we can be in this state : but the terrour of the lord which sha●l appear at the dreadful day of judgement of which he peaks in the verse before the text . a for we must all appear before the judgement seat of christ that every one may receive the things done in his body , according to that he hath done , whether it be good or bad . this is the terrour here meant which relates to our final and eternal state in another world , wh●n we must appear before the judgement seat of christ , &c. and of this he speaks , not out of poetical fables , ancient traditions , uncertain conjectures , or probable arguments but from full assu●ance of the truth of what he delivers , knowing therefore the terrour of the lord we perswade men . in which words we shall consider these particulars . . the argument which the apostle makes choice of to perswade men , which is , the terrour of the lord. . the great assurance he expresseth of the truth of it , knowing therefore the terrour of the lord. . the efficacy of it in order to the convincing and reforming mankind ; knowing therefore &c. we perswade men . . the argument the apostle makes choice of to perswade men by , viz. the terror of the lord. in the gospel we find a mixture of the highest clemency and the greatest severity , the richest mercy and the strictest justice , the most glorious rewards and intollerable punishments ; accordingly we find god therein described as a tender father , and as a terrible judge , as a god of peace , and as a god of vengeance , as an everlasting happiness and a consuming fire ; and the son of god as coming once with great humility , and again with majesty and great glory ; once , with all the infirmities of humane nature and again with all the demonstrations of a divine power and presence : once , as the son of god to take away the sins of the world by his death and passion ; and again , as judge of the world with flaming fire to execute vengeance on all impenitent sinners . the intermixing of these in the doctrine of the gospel was necessary in order to the benefit of mankind by it , that such whom the condescension of his first appearance could not oblige to leave off their sins , the terrour of his second may astonish when they foresee the account that will be taken of their ingratitude and disobedience ; that such who are apt to despise the meanness of his birth , the poverty of his life , and the shame of his death , may be filled with horrour and amazement when they consider the majesty of his second coming in the clouds a to execute judgement upon all , and to convince all that are ungodly , not only of their ungodly deeds , but of all their hard speeches , which ungodly sinners have spoken against him . and we shall easily see what great reason there is that this second coming of christ to judgement should be called the terrour of the lord , if we consider , . the terror of the preparation for it . . the terror of the appearance in it . . the terror of the proceedings upon it . . the terror of the sentence which shall then be passed . . the terror of the preparation for it ; which is particularly described by st. peter in these words , b but the day of the lord will come as a thies in the night , in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise , and the elements shall melt with servent heat , the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burnt up . this day will come as a thief in the night , by way of surprise , when it is not looked for , and that makes it so much the more dreadful . a lesser calamity coming suddenly doth astonish more , than a far greater which hath been long expected ; for , surprisals confound mens thoughts , daunt their spirits , and betray all the succours which reason offers . but when the surprise shall be one of the least astonishing circumstances of the misery men fall into , what unconceivable horrour , will possess their minds at the app●ehension of it ? what confusion and amazement may we imagine the soul of that man in , whom our saviour speaks of in his parable , who being pleased with the fulness of his condition a said to his soul , soul thou hast much goods laid up for many years , take thine ease , eat , drink and be merry ; but god said to him , thou fool this might thy : soul shall be required of thee , then whose shall those things be that thou hast provided ? had god only said , this night shall thy burns be burnt , and thy substance consumed to ashes which thou hast laid up for so many years , that would have caused a strange consternation in him for the present , but he might have comforted himself with the hopes of living and getting more . but , this night shall thy soul be required of thee ; o dreadful words ! o the tremblings of body , the anguish of mind , the pangs and convulsions of conscience which such a one is tormented with at the hearing of them ! what sad reflections doth he presently make upon his own folly ? and must all the mirth and ease i promised my self for so many years ; be at an end now in a very few hours ? nay , must my mirth be so suddenly turned into bitter howlings , and my ease into a bed of flames ? must my soul be thus torn away from the things it loved , and go where it will hate to live and can never dye ? o miserable creature ! to be thus deceived by my own folly , to be surprised after so many warnings , to betray my self into everlasting misery ? fear , horrour and despair have already taken hold on me and are carrying me , where they will never leave me . these are the agonies but of one single person whom death snatches away in the midst of his years , his pleasures and his hopes : but such as these the greatest part of the world will fall into when that terrible day of the lord shall come . b for as it was in the days of noe ; so shall it be also in the day of the son of man ; they did eat , they drank , they married wives , they were given in marriage , until the day that noe entred into the ark ; and the flood came and destroyed them all ; likewise also as it was in the days of lot , they did eat , they drank , they bought , they sold , they planted , they builded , but the same day that lot went out of sodom , it rained fire and brimstome from heaven and destroyed them all : even thus shall it be in the day when the son of man is revealed . a for as a snare shall it come on all them , that dwell on the face of the whole earth : if some of the è expressions seem to relate to the unexpected coming of christ to judgement upon hierusalem , we are to consider that was not only a fore-runner but a figure of christs coming to judge the world . and that may be the great reason why our saviour mixeth his discourses of both these so much together as he doth : for not only the judgement upon that nation was a draught , as it were , in little of the great day , but the symptoms and fore-runners of the one were to bear a proportion with the other : among which the strange security of that people before their destruction was none of the least . and the surprise shall be so much the more astonishing when the day of the lord shall come upon the whole world , as the ter●or and consequents of that univerial judgement shall exceed the overthrow of the jewish polity . but supposing men were aware of its approach and prepared for it ; the burning of the temple and city of hierusalem , though so frightful a spectacle to the beholders of it , was but a mean representation of the terror that shall be at the conflagration of the whole world . when the heavens shall pass away with a great ●oise , or with a mighty force as some interpret it , and the elements shall melt with fervent heat , i. e. when all the fiery bodies in the upper regions of this world , which have been kept so long in an even and regular course within their several limits , shall then be let loose again , and by a more rapid and violent motion shall put the world into confusion and a flame together . for then the present frame of things shall be dissolved , and the bounds set to the more subtile and active parts of matter shall be taken away , which mixing with the more gr●ss and earthy shall sever them from each other and by their whirling and agitation set them all on sire . and if b the stars falling to the earth were to be understood in a literal sense , none seems so probable as this , that those aethereal fires shall then be scattered and dispersed thoughout the universe , so that the earth and all the works that are therein shall be turned into one funeral pile . then the foundations of the earth shall be shaken , and all the combustible matter which lies hid in the bowels of it shall break forth into prodigious flames ; which while it rouls up and down within , making it self a passage out , will cause an universal quaking in all parts of the earth , and make the sea to roar with a mighty noise , which will either by the violent heat spend it self in vapour and smoak , or be swallowed up in the hollow places of the deep . neither are we to imagine that only the sulphureous matter within the earth shall by its kindling produce so general a conflagration , ( although some philosophers of old thought that sufficient for so great an effect ) but as it was in the deluge of water a the fountains of the great deep were broken up , and the windows of heaven were opened ; so shall it be in this deluge of fire , as one of the ancients calls it , not only mighty streams and rivers of fire shall issue of out the bowels of the earth ; but the cataracts above shall discharge such abundance of thunder and lightning , wherein god will rain down fire and brimstone from heaven , that nothing shall be able to withstand the force of it . then the craters breaches made in the earth by horrible earthquakes , caused by the violent eruptions of fire , shall be wide enough to swallow up not only cities but whole countries too : and what shall remain of the spoils of this devouring enemy within , shall be consumed by the merciless fury of the thunder and lightning above . what will then become of all the glories of the world which are now so much admired and courted by foolish men ? what will then become of the most magnificent piles , the most curious structures , the most stately palaces , the most lasting monuments , the most pleasant gardens and the most delightful countries ? they shall be all buried in one common heap of ruines , when the whole face of the earth shall be like the top of mount aetna , nothing but rubbish , and stones , and ashes , which , unskilful travellers have at a distance mistaken for snow . what will then become of the pride and gallantry of the vain persons , the large possessions of the great , or the vast treasures of the rich ? the more they have had of these things only the more fuel they have made for this destroying fire , which will have no respect to the honours , the greatness , or the riches of men . nay , what will then become of b the wicked and ungodly , who have scoffed at all these things , and walked after their own lusts , saying , where is this promise of his coming , because all things yet continue as they were from the beginning of the creation ? when this great day of his wrath is come , how shall they be able to stand or escape his sury ? will they flie to the tops of the mountains ? that were only to stand more ready to be destroyed from heaven . will they hide themselves in the dens and the rocks of the mountains ? but there they fall into the burning furnaces of the earth ; and the mountains may fall upon them but can never hide them from the wrath of the lamb. will they go down into the deep and convey themselves to the uttermost parts of the sea ? but even there the storms and tempests of these shours of fire shall overtake them ; and the vengeance of god shall pursue them to everlasting flames . consider now whether so dreadful a preparation for christs coming to judgement be not one great reason why it should be called the terror of the lord ? for can any thing be imagined more full of horror and amazement than to see the whole world in a flame about us ? we may remember ( and i hope we yet do so ) when the flames of one city filled the minds of all the beholders with astonishment and fear : but what then would it do , not only to see the earth vomit and cast forth fire every where about us ; and the sea to boyl and swell and froth like water in a seething pot , but to hear nothing but perpetual claps of thunder , and to see no light in the heavens , but what the flashings of lightning give ? could we imagine our selves at a convenient distance to behold the eruption of a burning mountain , such as aetna and vesuvius are , when the earth about it trembles and groans , the sea foams and rages , and the bowels of the mountain roar through impatience of casting forth its burden , and at last gives it self ease by sending up a mixture of flames , and ashes , and smoak , and a flood of fire , spreading far and destroying where ever it runs ; yet even this , though it be very apt to put men in apprehensions and fears of this great day , falls very far short of the terror of it . could we yet farther suppose that at the same time we could see fire and brimstone raining from heaven on sodom and gomorrah , the earth opening to devour corah and his company , belshazzar trembling at the hand writing against the wall , and the jews destroying themselves in the fire of their temple and city , this may somewhat higher advance our imaginations of the horror of the worlds conflagration , but yet we cannot reach the greatness of it : in as much as the heavens and the earth which are now , are kept in store saith the apostle a reserved unto fire against the day of judgement and perdition of ungodly men ; even those heavens whole beauty , and order , and motion , and influence we now admire ; and that earth whose fruitful womb and richly adorned surface affords all the conveniencies of the life of man , must either be destroyed or at least purged and refined by this last and dreadful fire . the expressions of which in scripture being so frequent , so particular , so plain in writers not affecting the ●ofty prophetical stile , wherein fire is often used only to express the wrath of god , make it evident , that their meaning is not barely that the world shall be destroyed by the anger of god , but that this destruction shall be by real fire , which adds more to the sensible terror of it , to all that shall behold it . . the terror of christs appearance in that day . the design of the scripture in setting forth the coming of christ to judgement is to represent it in such a manner to us as is most apt to strike us with awe and terror at the apprehension of it . now the greatest appearance of majesty among men is , either when a mighty prince marches triumphantly in the midst of a royal army , with all the splendor of a court and the discipline of a camp , having his greatest attendants about him , and sending his officers before him , who with the sound of trumpets give notice of his approach , and is every where received with the shouts and acclamations of the people : or else , of a prince , sitting upon his throne of majesty set forth with all the ornaments of state and greatness , with all his nobles and courties standing about his throne , and in his own person calling malefactors to account ; and both these ways the appearance of christ upon his second coming is represented to us : first a as coming in the clouds of heaven , i. e. riding triumphantly ( as it were upon a chariot ) on a body of light brighter than the sun , having b all the heavenly host attending upon him , and therefore he is said c to come with power and great glory ; and sending his angels with a great sound of a trumpet before him ; d after whom the lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout , with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of god. not as though we were to imagine any material trumpet , as some have grossly done , whose sound could reach over the whole earth ; but the sound of the last trumpet seems to be the same with e the voice of the son of god , which the dead are said to hear and live ; i. e. it shall be an effectual power for raising the dead ; which may be therefore called the sound of a trumpet , because it supplies the use of one in calling all people together , and doth more lively represent to our capacities the majesty of christs appearance with all the heavenly host of angels and saints . thus when god appeared upon mount sinai with his holy angels about him , we there read f of the noise of the trumpet : and when god shewed his glorious presence in the temple , he is said g to go up with a shout and the lord with the sound of a trumpet : and when he sets himself against his enemies , god himself is said h to blow the trumpet , and to go with the whirlwinds of the south . but besides this , we find christ upon his second coming described as i sitting on the throne of his glory , and all the holy angels about him , and all nations gathered before him to receive their sentence from him . his throne is said to be great and white , i. e. most magnificent and glorious , and to make it the more dreadful ; a from it are said to proceed lightnings and thundrings and voices ; and so terrible is the majesty of him that sits upon the throne b that the heaven and earth are said to flie away from his face ; but the dead small and great are to stand before him and to be judged according to their works . and if the appearance of a common judge be so dreadful to a guilty prisoner , if the majesty of an earthly prince begets an awe and reverence where there is no fear of punishment , what may we then imagine when justice and majesty both meet in the person of the judge , and fear and guilt in the conscience of offenders ? therefore it is said , c behold he cometh with clouds and every eye shall see him , and they also which pierced him : and all kindreas of the earth shall wail because of him . we find the best of men in scripture seized on with a very unusual consternation at any extraordinary divine appearance : the sight upon mount sinai was so terrible even to moses d that he did exceedingly fear and quake : the vision which isaiah had of the glory of god made him cry out , e wo is me for i am un●one , for mine eyes have seen the king the lord of hosts : when daniel saw his vision , all his strength and vigor was gone , and though an angel raised him from the ground , yet he saith of himself f that he stood trembling . if these whom god appeared o in a way of kindness were so possessed with fear , what horror must needs seize upon the minds of the wicked when g the lord iesus shall be revealed from heaven in flaming fire on purpose to take vengeance upon them ? if in the days of his flesh there appeared so much majesty in his countenance , that when the officers came to apprehend him , h they went backward and fell to the ground ; how unconceivably greater must it be when his design shall be to manifest that glory to the world which he then concealed from it ? if in the short time of his transfiguration on the holy mount , his own disciples were so far from being able to behold the glory of his presence , that i they fell on their faces and were sore afraid ; how shall his enemies abide the day of his wrath , or how can they stand when he shall appear in the full glory of his majesty and power ? . the terror of the proceedings upon that day : for then we must all appear before the judgement seat of christ , not for any ostentation of his greatness and power before the whole world , but that every one may receive according to the things done in his body , whether it be good or bad . how full of terror will the proceedings of that day be , wherein all secrets shall be disclosed , all actions examined and all persons judged ? that will be ( a ) the day of the revelation of the righteous judgement of god ; this is the time of darkness and therefore of disputes and quarrels ; but then the wisdom and justice of divine providence shall be made manifest to all , for every one shall receive according to his works : and none will wonder at the sentence when they have seen the evidence . then the most secret impurities , the most subtile hypocrisie , the most artificial fraud , and the most dissembled malice shall be laid open to publick view . for then b god will bring to hight the hidden things of darkness and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts . then all the intrigues of lust and ambition so much the talk and business of this world , will be nothing but mens shame and reproach in the next . with what horror will they then behold all the sins of their lives set in order before them , when they seemed in this life , next to the committing them , to design as much as may be to forget them ? happy men ! if their consciences were like their table books , that they could blot out and put in what they pleased themselves : then all the black catalogue of their sins would be presently expunged , and they would have nothing to be seen there , but the characters of what at least seemed to be good . for though men be never so vicious they neither care that others should think so of them , nor they of themselves : of all things they do not love to dispute where they cannot answer , and that is their case in all their retorts of conscience upon them . they know there is no drolling with so sowre a piece , as that within them is , for that makes the smartest and most cutting repartees ; which are uneasie to bear , but impossible to answer . therefore they study their own quiet , by seeking to keep that silent ; and since they never hope to make conscience dumb , they would have it sleep as much as may be : and although the starts it sometimes makes , shew that the most sleepy sinners have some troublesom dreams , yet if it doth not throughly awake in this world , it will do it with a vengeance in another . then there will be no musick and dancing which can cure the biting of this tarantula within ; no opium of stupidity or atheism will be able to give one minutes rest . how will men then curse themselves for their own folly in being so easily tempted ; and all those who laid traps and snares to betray them by ? what different apprehensions of sin will they have then , from what they have now , while they are beset with temptations to it ? o , will a forsaken sinner then say , had i ever believed as i ought to have done , that this would have been the fruit of a sinful life , i should have taken more care to prevent this misery than i have done ! but o the solly of intemperance , the mischief of ambition , the rage of lust , the unfatiableness of covetousness , the madness of debauchery , and the dulness of atheism , what have ye now brought me to , with all your pleasures and promises and flatteries while i lost my soul in your service ! o that i had time , to grow wise , again ; and once more to try whether i could withstand the cheats and witchcraft of a deceitful world ! now all my sins are as fresh before me , as if committed yesterday , and their burden is heavier than the weight of mountains however light i made of them then ; i need no judge to condemn me but my own conscience ; o that i could as easily see an end of my misery , as i do that i have deserved that there should be none . thus shall the book of conscience be opened at that day in the heart of every impenitent sinner , wherein like ezekiels roul he finds written within and without , a lamentation and mourning and woe . yet this will not be the only terrour in the proceedings of that day , that all the sins that ever wicked men committed will be set in order before them with their several circumstances and aggravations , although the remembrance of them cannot be without extreme horrour and amazement ; but that they must undergo a strict and severe examination of all their actions by a most powerful , holy and just judge . and if it be so troublesom a thing to them in this world to go down into themselves , or to call to remembrance their own wicked actions which they have loved and delighted in ; what will it be when they must all be brought forth before the judgement seat of christ who hates and abhorrs them ? if men can so hardly endure to have the deformity of their vices represented to them though very imperfectly here , how will they bear the dissecting and laying them open in the view of the whole world ? when the smallest fibres and the most subtile threads in our hearts shall be curiously examined , and the influence they have had upon our actions fully discovered . when sins that have been dispised for their littleness , or unregarded for their frequency , or laughed at as no sins at all , shall appear to have had a greater venom in them , than men would imagine . what shall they think then of their great and presumptuous sins ; whereby they have not only offered violence to god and his laws , but to the dictates of their own consciences in committing them ? never think that length of time will abate the severity of the enquiry , or lessen the displeasure of god against thee for them . remember the case of amalek , how god dealt with that people in this world for a sin committed . years before , and think then whether god be not in earnest , when he tells us how much he hates sin ; and how severe he will be in the punishment of it ? i remember saith god a what amalek did to israel , how he laid wait for him in the way , when he came up from egypt . now go and smite amalek , and utterly destroy all that they have and spare them not ; but sl●y both man and woman , infant and suckling , &c. what ? a whole na●ion to be destroyed for one sin , and for a sin they thought to be none at all who committed it , and for a sin at so great a distance of time from the commission of it ? but i forbear . i know not whether there be such another instance of gods severity in scripture , but it is such as may justly make us cry out with the p●almist , b if thou lord shouldst thus mark iniquities , o lord who shall stand ? but although god in this world so seldom shews his severity , and tempers it with so much kindness , we have no reason to expect he should do so in another . for here he hath declared that c mercy rejoyceth against judgement . this being the time d of gods patience and forbearance and goodness towards sinners , being not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance ; but if men will despise the riches of his goodness , if they wil still abuse his patience , if they will trample under foot the means of their own salvation , then they shall to their unspeakable sorrow find , that there is a day of wrath to come , wherein their own dreadfull experience will tell them , e that it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living god. for that will be a day of justice without mercy , a day of vengeance without pity , a day of execution without any further patience . then no vain excuses will be taken , whereby men seek to palliate their sins and give ease to their minds now . it will be to no purpose to charge thy wilful sins upon the infirmity of thy nature , the power of temptation , the subtility of the devil , the allurement of company , the common practice of the world , the corruption of the age , the badness of education , the fol●y of youth ; all these and such like excuses will be too weak to be made then , when it shall appear to thy eternal confusion , that thy own vicious inclination swayed thee beyond them all . then there will be as little place for intreaties , as for vain excuses ; god shews his great pity and indulgence to mankind now , that he is so ready to hear the prayers and grant the desires of all penitent sinners ; but for those who stop their ears to all his instructions , and will not not hearken to the reproofs of his word or the rebukes of their own consciences , but contemn all sober counsels and scoffe at religion ; what can they expect from him , but that a when they shall call upon him he will not answer , and when they seek him earnestly they shall not find him ; but he will laugh at their calamity and mock when their fear cometh . o blessed jesus ! didst thou weep over an incorrigible people in the days of thy flesh , b and wilt thou laugh at their miseries when thou comest to judge the world ? didst thou shed thy precious blood to save them , and wilt thou mock at their destruction ? didst thou woo and intreat and beseech sinners to be reconciled and wilt thou not hear them when in the anguish of their souls , they cry unto thee ? see then the mighty difference between christs coming as a saviour and as a judge , between the day of our salvation and the day of his wrath , between the joy in heaven at the conversion of penitent sinners , and at the confusion of the impenitent and unreclaimable . how terrible is the representation of gods wrath in the style of the prophets , when he punisheth a people in this world for their sins ? it is called c the day of the lord cruel with wrath and fierce anger : the day of the lords vengeance d the great and dreadful day of the lord. if it were thus , when his wrath was kindled but a little , when mercy was mixed with his severity , what will it be , when he shall stir up all his wrath , and the heavens and the earth shall shake that never did offend him , what shall they then do that shall to their sorrow know how much they have displeased him ? then neither power , nor wit , nor eloquence , nor craft shall stand men in any stead ; for the great judge of that day can neither be over-awed by power , nor over-reached by wit , nor moved by eloquence , nor betrayed by craft , but every man shall receive according to his deeds . the mighty disturbers of mankind , who have been called conquerours , shall not then be attended with their great armies , but must stand alone to receive their sentence : the greatest wits of the world will then find that a sincere honest heart will avail them more than the deepest reach or the greatest subtilty ; the most eloquent persons without true goodness will be like the man in the parable without the wedding garment , speechless ; the most crafty and politick , will then see , that though they may deceive men and themselves too , yet god will not be mocked , for whatsoever a man sows , that shall he reap ; and they who have spread snares for others and been hugely pleased to see them caught by them , shall then be convinced that they have laid the greatest of all for themselves , for e god will then be fully known by the judgement which he shall execute and the wicked shall be snared in the work of their own hands : for , the wicked shall be turned into hell , and all the nations that forget god. . the terror of the sentence , which shall then be passed . the judge himself hath told us before hand what it shall be , to make us more apprehensive of it in this state , wherein we are capable to prevent it by sincere repentance and a holy life . the tenour of it is expressed in those dreadful words , a depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels . it is impossible to conceive words fuller of horrour and amazement than those are , to such as duly consider the importance of them . it is true indeed wicked men in this world are so little apprehensive of the misery of departing from god , that they are ready to bid god depart from them , and place no mean part of their felicity in keeping themselves at a distance from him . the true reason of which is , that while they pursue their lusts , the thoughts of god are disquieting to them ; as no man that robs his neighbour loves to think of the judge while he does it , not as though his condition were securer by it , but when men are not wise enough to prevent a danger , they are so great fools to count in their wisdom not to think of it . but therein lies a great part of the misery of another world , that men shall not be able to cheat and abuse themselves with false notions , and shews of happiness . the clouds they have embraced for deities shall then vanish into smoke ; all the satisfaction they ever imagined in their lusts shall be wholly gone , and nothing but the sad remembrance of them , lest behind to torment them . all the philosophy in the world will never make men understand their true happiness so much , as one hours experience of another state will do : all men shall know better , but some shall be more happy and others more miserable by it . the righteous shall not only see god , but know what the seeing of god means , and that the greatest happiness we are capable of is implyed therein ; and the wicked shall not only be bid to depart from him , but shall then find that the highest misery imaginable is comprehended in it . it is a great instance of the weakness of our capacities here , that our discourses concerning the happiness and misery of a future life , are like , those of children about affairs of state , which they represent to themselves in a way agreeable to their own childish fancies ; thence the poctical dreams of elysian fields , and turning wheels and rouling stones and such like imaginations . nay , the scripture it self sets forth the joys and torments of another world in a way more suited to our fancy than our understanding ; thence we read of sitting down with abraham , isaac and jacob to represent the happiness of that state , and of a gnawing worm , and a devouring fire and blackness of darkness to set forth the misery of it but as the happiness of heaven doth infinitely exceed the most lofty metaphors of scripture , so doth the misery of hell the most dreadful representation that can be made of it . although a worm gnawing our entrails , and a fi●e consuming our outward parts be very sensible and moving metaphors yet they cannot fully express the anguish and torment of the soul , which must be so much greater , as it is more active and sensible , than our bodies can be . take a man that afflicts himself under the sense of some intolerable disgrace , or calamity befallen him ; or that is oppressed with the guilt of some horrid wickedness , or sunk into the depth of despair ; the agonies and torments of his mind may make us apprehend the nature of that misery , although he falls short of the degrees of it . and were this misery to be of no long continuance , yet the terror of it must needs be great ; but when the worm shall never dye , and the fire shall never be quenched , when insupportable misery shall be everlasting , nothing can then be added to the terrour of it : and this is as plainly contained in the sentence of wicked men , as any thing else is . but here men think they may justly plead with god and talk with him of his judgements ; what proportion , say they , is there , between the sins of this short life and the eternal misery of another ? which objection is not so great in it self as it appears to be by the weak answers ▪ which have been made to it ; when to assign a proportion , they have made a strange kind of infinity in sin either from the object , which unavoidably makes all sins equal , or from the wish of a sinner that he might have an eternity to sin in , which is to make the justice of gods punishments to be not according to their works , but to their wishes ; but we need not strain things so much beyond what they will bear to vindicate gods justice in this matter . is it not thought just and reasonable among men , for a man to be confined to perpetual imprisonment for a fault he was not half an hour in committing ? nay do not all the laws of the world make death the punishment of some crimes , which may be very suddenly done ? and what is death , but the eternal depriving a man of all the comforts of life ? and shall a thing then so constantly practised and universally justified in the world , be thought unreasonable when it is applyed to god ? it is true , may some say if annihilation were all that was meant by eternal death , there could be no exception against it : but i ask , whether it would be unjust for the laws of men to take away the lives of offenders in case their souls ●urvive their bodies , and they be for ever sensible of the loss of life ? if not , why shall not god preserve the honour of his laws , and vindicate his authority in governing the world , by sentencing obstinate sinners to the greatest misery , though their souls live for ever in the apprehension of it ? especially since god hath declared these things so evidently before hand , and made them part of his laws , and set everlasting life on the other side to ballance everlasting misery , and proposed them to a sinners choice in such a manner , that nothing but contempt of god and his grace , and wilful impenitency can ever betray men into this dreadful state of eternal destruction . . thus much for the argument used by the apostle , the terrour of the lord ; i now come to the assurance he expresseth of the truth of it ; knowing therefore the terrour of the lord we perswade men . we have two ways of proving articles of faith , such as this concerning christs coming to judgement is , . by shewing , that there is nothing unreasonable in the belief of them . . that there is sufficient evidence of the truth and certainty of them . in the former of these it is of excellent use to produce the common apprehensions of mankind as to a future judgement , and the several arguments insisted on to that purpose ; for if this were an unreasonable thing to believe , how come men without revelation to agree about it as a thing very just and reasonable ? if the conflagration of the world were an impossible thing , how came it to be so anciently received by the eldest and wisest philosophers ? how came it to be maintained by those two sects which were st. paul's enemies , when he preached at athens , and always enemies to each other , the a epicureans and the stoicks ? it is true they made these conflagrations to be periodical and not final : but we do not establish the belief of our doctrine upon their assertion , but from thence shew that is a most unreasonable thing to reject that as impossible to be done , which they assert hath been and may be often done . but for the truth and certainty of our doctrine , we build that upon no less a foundation than the word of god himself . we may think a judgement to come reasonable in general upon the ●…sideration of the goodness and wisdom and justice of god ; but all that depends upon this supposition , that god doth govern the world by laws and not by power , but since god himself hath declared it who is the suprem judge of the world , b that he will bring every work into judgement whether it be good or evil , since the son of god made this so great a part of his doctrine with all the circumstances of his own coming for again this end ; since he opened the commission he received from the father for this purpose when he was upon earth , by declaring that a the father had committed ▪ all judgement to the son , and that the hour is coming in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice , and shall come forth , they that have done good to the resurrection of life , and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation . since this was so great a part of the apostles doctrine to preach of this judgement to come , and b that god hath appointed a day in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained , whereof he hath given assurance to all men in that he hath raised him from the dead : no wonder the apostle speaks here with so great assurance of it , knowing therefore , &c. and no persons can have the least ground to question it , but such who wholly reject the christian doctrine , upon the pretences of infidelity , which are so vain and trifling , that , were not their lusts stronger than their arguments men of wit would be ashamed to produce them ; and did not mens passions oversway their judgements it would be too much honour to them to confute them . but every sermon is not intended for the conversion of turks and infidels , my design is to speak to those who acknowledge themselves to be christians and to believe the truth of this doctrine upon the authority of those divine persons who were particularly sent by god to reveal it to the world . and so i come to the last particular , by way of application of the former , viz. . the efficacy of this argument for the perswading men to a reformation of heart and life ; knowing the terror of the lord we perswade men . for as another apostle reasons from the same argument . c seeing all these things shall be dissolved what manner of persons ought we to be in all holy conversation and godliness ? there is great variety of arguments in the christian religion to perswade men to holiness , but none more sensible and moving to the generality of mankind than this . especially considering these two things . . that if this argument doth not perswade men , there is no reason to expect any other should . . that the condition of such persons is desperate , who cannot by any arguments be perswaded to leave off their sins . . there is no reason to expect any other argument should perswade men if this of the terror of the lord do it not . if an almighty power cannot awaken us , if infinite justice cannot affright us , if a judgement to come cannot make us tremble , and eternal misery leave no impression upon us , what other arguments or methods can we imagine would reclaim us from our sins ? we have been too sad an instance our selves , of the ineffectualness of other means of amendment by the mercies and judgements of this present life : have ever any people had a greater mixture of both these , than we have had in the compass of a few years ? if the wisest persons in the world had been to have set down beforehand the method of reforming a sinful nation , they could have pitched upon none more effectual than what we have shewed not to be so . first they would have imagined , that after enduring many miseries and hardships , when they were almost quite sunk under dispair , if god should give them a sudden and unexpected deliverance , meer ingenuity and thankfulness would make them afrid to displease a god of so much kindness . but if so great a flash of joy and prosperity instead of that should make them grow wanton and extravagant , what a course then so likely to reclaim them , as a series of smart and severe judgements one upon another , which might sufficiently warn yet not totally destroy . these we have had experience of , and of worse than all these , viz. that we are not amended by them . for are the laws of god less broken , or the duties of religion less contemned and despised after all these ? what vices have been forsaken , what lusts have men been reclaimed from , nay what one sort of sin hath been less in fashion than before ? nay have not their number as well as their aggravation , increased among us ? is our zeal for our established religion greater ? is our faith more firm and setled , our devotion more constant , our church less in danger of either of the opposite factions than ever it was ? nay is it not rather like a neck of land between two rough and boysterous seas , which rise and swell , and by the breaches they make in upon us , threaten an inundation ? by all which we see what necessity there is that god should govern this world by the considerations of another ; that when neither judgements nor mercies can make men better in this life ; judgement without mercy should be their portion in another . o the infatuating power of sin ! when neither the pity of an indulgent father , nor the frowns of a severe judge can draw us from it : when neither the bitter passion of the son of god for our sins , nor his threatning to come again to take vengeance upon us for them , can make us hate and abhorr them : when neither the shame nor contempt , the diseases and reproaches which follow sin in this world ; nor the intollerable anguish and misery of another can make men sensible of the folly of them so as to forsake them . could we but represent to our minds that state wherein we must all shortly be , when the bustle and hurry , the pleasures and diversions , the courtships and entertainments of this world shall be quite at an end with us , and every one must give an account of himself to god ; what another opinion of these things should we have in our minds , with what abhorrency should we look upon every temptation to sin , how should we loath the sight of those who either betrayed us into sin or flattered us when we had committed it ? could men but ask themselves that reasonable question , why they will defie god by violating his known laws , unless they be sure he either cannot or will not punish them for it ? thy would be more afraid of doing it than they are , for supposing both , to do it , is perfect madness : to question his power who is almighty , or his will who hath declared it and is immutable is the height of folly . . the condition of such is desperate whom no arguments can perswade to leave their sins . for there can be no breaking prison in that other state , no escaping tryal , no corrupting the judge , no reversing the sentence , no pardon after judgement , no reprieve from punishment , no abatement or end of misery . how canst thou then hope o impenitent sinner , either to fly from or to endure that wrath of god that is coming swiftly upon thee to arrest thee by death , and convey thee to thy tormenting prison ? canst thou hope , that god will discharge thee before that dreadful day comes , when he hath confined thee thither in order to it ? canst thou hope that day will never come which the vindication of gods justice , the honour of christ , the happiness of the blessed , as well as the punishment of the wicked make so necessary that it should come ? or canst thou hope , to defend thy self , against an all seeing eye , a most righteous judge and an accusing conscience when that day doth come ? when all the mercies thou hast abused , the judgements thou hast slighted , the motions of grace thou hast resisted , the checks of conscience thou hast stifled , and the sins of all kinds thou hast committed , shall rise up in judgement to condemn thee ? o that we had all the wisdom to consider of these things in time , that the terror of the lord may perswade us to break off all our sins by a sincere repentance , and to live so that we may dye with comfort , and be for ever with the lord in his eternal joy. sermon xii . preached at white hall . february . . matthew xvi . xxvi . for what is a man profited , if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul ? or what shall he give in exchange for his soul ? if we look into the twenty fourth verse of this chapter we shall find our saviour there , laying down such hard conditions of mens being his disciples , as were , to all appearance , more likely to have driven away those which he had already , than to have drawn any others after him : for he requires no less than the greatest readiness to suffer for his sake , and that to no meaner a degree than the loss of what is most precious to men in this world , in their lives ; which is implyed in those words ; if any man will come after me let him deny himself , and take up his cross and follow me . if our saviour had only designed to have made himself great by the number of his followers , if he had intended a kingdom in this world , as the jews imagined , he would have made more easie conditions of being his disciples ; he would have chosen another way to have attained his end , and made use of more pleasing and popular arguments to have perswaded the people to follow him . when the eastern impostor afterwards began to set up for a new religion , he took a method as contrary to our saviours as his religion and design was : he knew the greatness and honour , the pleasures and the pomp of this world , were the things most passionately loved and admired by the generality of mankind ; and therefore he fitted his religion to the natural inclinations of men , and proposed such means of advancing it as were most like to make men great by undertaking them . and men are never so willing to be cheated by any religion , as that which complies with their present interests and gratifies their sensual inclinations . in this case there need not many arguments to court persons to embrace that which they were so strongly inclined to before ; and the very name of religion does them great service when it allows what they most desire , and makes them sin with a quiet conscience . but that is the peculiar honor of christianity , that as it can never be suspected to be a design for this world , so it hath risen and spread it self by ways directly contrary to the splendor and greatness of it : for it overcame by sufferings , increased by persecutions , and prevailed in the world by the patience and self-denial of its followers . he that was the first preacher of it , was the greatest example of suffering himself ; and he bids his disciples not to think much of following their lord and saviour though it were to take up the cross and lay down their lives for his sake . we may easily imagine how much startled and surprized his disciples were at such discourses as these , who being possessed with the common opinion of the temporal kingdom of the messias , came to him with great expectations of honour and advancement by him ; and no less would content some of them , than being his highest favourites and ministers of state suting at his right hand , and at his left hand in his kingdom : they had already in their imaginations shared the preferments and dignities of his kingdom among themselves ; and were often contending about preheminence , who should be the greatest among them . insomuch , that when christ now , the time of his suffering approaching , began more plainly to discourse to them of his own sufferings at hierusalem , v. . st. peter , either out of his natural forforwardness and heat , or being elevated by the good opinion which our lord had expressed of him before v. . takes upon him very solemnly to rebuke him for ever thinking to submit himself to so mean a condition ; be it far from thee , lord ; this shall not be unto thee , v. . upon which , jesus not only reproves peter with great smartness and severity , as savoring more of the pomp and ease of the world , than of the nature and design of his kingdom ; v. . but takes this occasion to tell his disciples , that they must no longer dream of the glories and splendor of this world , nor entertain themselves with vain fancies of the pleasures and contentments of this life ; but if they would shew themselves to be truly his disciples they must prepare for persecutions and martyrdoms , they must value their religion above their lives ; for the time was now coming on , they must part with one or the other ; and if they were not prepared beforehand by self-denial and taking up the cross , they would run great hazard of losing their souls for the love of this world : and therefore our saviour shews , . the great advantage that would accrue to them ; if they were willing to suffer for his sake . whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it , v. . i. e. instead of this short and uncertain life , which would spend it self in a little time , he should have one infinitely more valuable ; and therefore no exchange could be better made , than that of laying down such a life as this for one of eternal happiness and glory ; for so our saviour elsewhere explains it he that hateth his life in this world , shall keep it unto life eternal , st. john . . . the great folly of losing this eternal state of happiness for the preservation of this present life , or the enjoyment of the things of this world : which he first lays down as a certain truth , v. . for whosoever will save his life shall lose it , and then discovers the folly of it in the words of the text , by comparing such a mans gain and his loss together , supposing he should obtain the utmost that can be hoped for in this world . for what is a man profited if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul ? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul ? wherein we may consider these three particulars ; . the possibility supposed of losing the soul ; though a man should gain the whole world . . the hazard implied of the loss of the soul for the sake of the gain of the world . . the folly expressed of losing the soul , though it be for the gain of the whole world . . the possibility supposed of the loss of the soul in another world ; for the force of our saviours argument depends wholly on the supposition of the certainty of the souls being in another state ; and its capacity of happiness or misery therein . for , setting that aside there can be no argument strong enough to perswade any man to part not only with what he hath or hopes for in this life , but with life it self . he that is so great a fool to be an athiest , would yet be much more so to be a martyr for his opinion . what is there could recompence the loss of life , to a man that believes that there is nothing after it ? but supposing there should be a life to come , as it is impossible to give any demonstration to the contrary , what madness would it be , for a man to run himself into the miseries of another world with a design to prove there is none ? if all that our saviour had meant , were only to represent the folly of a person , that would lay down his life for the purchase of an estate , ( for so the soul is often taken for the life ) that would not have reached the scope and design of his discourse . and no instances can be produced of such a kind of folly , which would be as great as for a man to lose his head for a wager , or to purchase the lease of his life by destroying himself . but supposing this to be a proverbial speech , yet the folly of losing a mans life for the gain of the whole world is not brought in by our saviour meerly for it self : but as it doth much more represent the unspeakable folly of such who for the love of this world will venture the loss of an eternal endearing life , and all the misery which is consequent upon it . if that man would gain nothing by his bargains but the reputation of a fool , that for the possession of the whole world for one moment , would be content to be killed in the next ; how much greater folly are they guilty of , that for the sake of this world and the p●eservation of their lives here , expose themselves to all the miseries of another life , which god hath threatned or their souls can undergo ? it is such a loss of the soul which is here spo ken of , as is consistent with the preservation of this present life ; for whosoever saith christ , will save his life shall lose it ; and to those words before , these of the text have a particular reference , and therefore must be understood not of losing this life , but of the loss of the soul in a future state . and this loss cannot be understood of the souls annihilation or ceasing to be , as soon as the life is gone ; for that being supposed , he would be the happiest man that had the most of this world at his command and enjoyed the greatest pleasure in it . so st. paul himself determines , that if there were no future state , the epicureans argument would take place , a let us eat and drink for tomorrow we die : and he reckons those among the most miserable of all mankind who ventured the loss of all that is accounted desirable in this world and of their lives too ; if there were not a better life to come . b for if in this life only we have hope in christ , saith he , we are of all men the most miserable . so that the strength of our saviours discourse depends upon the supposition of the immortality of the soul ; and its capacity of being happy or miserable in a future state . and it is the great commendation of the christian religion , that the particular duties required in it are established on the same foundations that natural religion is , which are the belief of a deity and the immortality of the soul. a for he that comes unto god must believe that he it , and that he is a rewarder of them that seek him ; which being spoken with a respect to one who for being good was translated out of this world , must refer to the rewards of a future life . and we desire no more than these common principles of religion to make the most difficult duties of christianity appear reasonable to mankind . for it is upon the account of this future state of the soul , that it is our most just and necessary care to look after the welfare of our souls in the first place , to seek the kingdom of god the and righteousness thereof , before the concernments of this present life , because a state that endures for ever ought to be preferred before a short and uncertain abode in this world . it is this , which makes it reasonable to please god , though to the displeasing our selves and the crossing our natural inclinations ; because eternal happiness and misery depends upon his favor or displeasure . it is this , which obliges men to the greatest care of their actions , because their future state in another world , will be according to their lives here , for every man shall then receive according to his works . it is this , which ought to keep men from all fleshly lusts , not meerly because they are inconvenient for their bodies , but because they war against their souls . it is this , which makes the love of this world so dangerous a thing , because it draws away the hearts and affections of men from things that are above and fixes them upon things below . it is this , which makes it necessary for us to subdue our passions , to conquer temptations , to forgive injuries , to be patient under afflictions , and to lay down our lives for religion , because there will be a reward for the righteous and the happiness of another state will make abundant recompence for all the difficulties of this . so that in the gospel the doctrine of the souls immortality is not spoken of as the nice speculation of subtile and contemplative men ; nor meerly supposed as a foundation of all religion , but it is interwoven in the substance of it , and adds strength to all its parts . for herein we find the immortality of the soul not barely asserted , nor proved by uncertain arguments , nor depending on the opinion of philosophers ; but delivered with the greatest authority , revealed with the clearest light , and confirmed by the strongest evidence . if any one can make known to mankind the state of souls in another world it must be god himsēlf ; if ever it was made known plainly by him it must be in the gospel , whereby a life and immortality are brought to light ; if ever any arguments were proper to convince mankind of it , they are such as are contained therein . for it is not barely the resurrection of our lord , which is a manifest evidence of the truth of the souls subsisting after a real death ; but the whole design of his doctrine and the christian religion is built upon it . so that if we suppose the immortality of the soul the christian religion appears more reasonable by it ; but if we suppose the doctrine of christ to be true there can be no doubt left of the immortality of the soul ; and whatever arguments we have to prove the truth of this doctrine by , the same do of necessity prove the certainty of the souls immortality . i confess many subtile arguments have been used by those who never knew any thing of divine revelation to prove the soul to be of such a nature , that it was not capable of dying with the body ; and some of them such as none of their adversaries were ever able to answer . for the most common acts of sense are unaccountable in a meer mechanical way ; and after all the attemps of the most witty and industrious men i despair of ever seeing the powers of meer matter raised to a capacity of performing the lowest acts of perception ; and much more of those nobler faculties of memory , understanding and will. but although the arguments from hence are sufficient to justifie the belief of the souls immortality to all considering men ; yet the far greatest part of mankind was never so ; and a matter of so great consequence as this is , ought to be proposed in the most plain , most certain , and most effectual manner . while these disputes were managed among the philosophers of old , though those who asserted the immortality of the soul had the better reason of their side ; yet their adversaries spake with greater confidence ; and that always bears the greatest sway among injudicious people . and some men are always fond of a reputation for wit by opposing common opinions though never so true and useful : especially when they serve a bad end in it and do thereby plead for their own impieties . but it cannot be denied , that those who were in the right did likewise give too great advantage to their enemies , partly by their own diffidence and distrust of what they had contended for , partly from the too great niceness and subtilty of their arguments , partly from the ridiculous fopperies which they maintained together with that of the souls immortality , as the transmigration of them into the bodies of brutes and such like . but the main disadvantage of all to the world was , that the immortality of the soul was rather insisted on as a principle of philosophy than of religion . some of the best of their arguments were such as made the souls of brutes immortal as well as those of men ; and those could not be imagined to have any great force on the lives of men , which would equally hold for such creatures which were not capable of rewards and punishments in another life . but therein lies the great excellency of the doctrine of the souls immortality as it is discovered in the gospel , not only that it comes from him who best understands the nature of souls , but is delivered in such a manner as is most effectual for the reformation of mankind . for the fullest account herein given of it is by the rewards and punishments of another life ; and those not poetically described by fictions and romances ; but delivered with the plainess of truth , the gravity of a law , the severity of a judge , the authority of a lawgiver , the majesty of a prince , and the wisdom of a deity . wherein the happiness described is such as the most excellent minds think it most desireable ; and the misery so great as all that consider it , must think it most intolerable . and both these are set forth with so close a respect to the actions of this life , that every one must expect in another world , according to what he doth in this . how is it then possible that the doctrine of the souls being in another state , could be recommended with greater advantage to mankind , than it is in the gospel ? and what is there can be imagined to take off the force of this , but the proving an absolute incapacity in the soul of subsisting after death ? it is true indeed in the state of this intimate union and conjunction between the soul and body , they do suffer mutually from each other . but if the souls suffering on the account of the body , as in diseases of the brain , be sufficient to prove there is no soul ; why may not the bodies suffering on the account of the soul , as in violent passions of the mind , as well prove that there is no body ? it is not enough then to prove that the soul doth in some things suffer from the body ; ( for so doth the child in the mothers womb from the distempers of its mother , yet very capable of living when separated from her ) but it must be shewed that the soul is not distinct from the body to prove it uncapable of being without it . but on the other side , i shall now shew that there is nothing unreasonable in what the scripture delivers concerning the immortal state of the souls of men , as to future rewards and punishments , because there are those things now in them considered as distinct from their bodies , which make them capable of either of them . and those are , . that they are capable of pleasure and pain distinct from the body . . that they have power of determining their own actions . . that the souls of men are capable of pleasure and pain distinct from the pleasure and pain of the body . whereever pleasure and pain may be , there must be a capacity of rewards and punishments , for a reward is nothing but the heightning of pleasure , and punishment an increase of pain ; and if there be both these in men of which no account can be given from their bodies , there must be a nobler principle within , which we call the soul , which is both the cause and the subject of them . we may as easily imagine that a fox should leave his prey to find out a demonstration in euclid , or a serpent attempt the squaring of the circle in the dust , or all the fables of a●sop become real histories , and the birds and beasts turn wits and polititians , as be able to give an account of those we call pleasures of the mind from the affections of the body . the transport of joy which archimedes was in at the finding out his desired problem , was a more certain evidence of the real pleasures of the mind , than the finding it was of the greatness of his wit. could we ever think that men who understood themselves would spend so much time in lines , and numbers , and figures , and examining problems and demonstrations which depend upon them , if they found not a great delight and satisfaction in the doing of it ? but whence doth this pleasure arise ? not from seeing the figures , or meer drawing the lines , or calculating the numbers , but by deducing the just and necessary consequences of one thing from another ; which would afford no more pleasure to a man without his soul , than a book of geometry would give to a herd of swine . it is the soul alone which takes pleasure in the search and finding out such truths , which can have no kind of respect to the body ; it is that , which can put the body out of order with its own pleasures , by spending so much time in contemplation as may exhaust the spirits , abate the vigor of the body and hasten its decay . and while that droops and sinks under the burden , the soul may be as vigorous and active in such a consumptive state of the body as ever it was before , the understanding as clear , the memory as strong , the entertainments of the mind as great , as if the body were in perfect health . it is a greater and more manly pleasure , which some men take in searching into the nature of these things in the world than others can take in the most voluptuous enjoyment of them ; the one can only satisfie a bruitish appetite while , it may be , something within is very unquiet and troublesom ; but the other brings a solid pleasure to the mind without any regret or disturbance from the body . by this we see , that setting aside the consideration of religion , the mind of man is capable of such pleasures peculiar to it self , of which no account could be given , if there were not a spiritual and therefore immortal being within us , not only distinct from the body , but very far above it . but the very capacity of religion in mankind doth yet further evidence the truth of it . i would fain understand how men ever came to be abused with the notion of religion , as some men are willing to think they are , if there were not some faculties in them above those of sense and imagination ? for where we find nothing else but these , we see an utter incapacity of any such thing as religion is ; in some brute creatures we find great subtilty and strange imitations of reason ; but we can find nothing like religion among them . how should it come to be otherwise among men , if imagination were the highest facultie in man ; since the main principles of religion are as remote from the power of imagination as may be ? what can be thought more repugnant to all the conceptions we take in by our senses , than the conception of a deity and the future state of souls is ? how then come the impressions of these things to sink so deep into humane nature , that all the art and violence in the world can never take them out ? the strongest impressions upon all other beings are such as are suitable to their natures , how come those in mankind to be such as must be supposed to be not only above but contrary to them if an immortal soul be not granted ? if men had no principle within them , beyond that of sense , nothing would have been more easie , than to have shaken off the notion of a deity and all apprehension of a future state : but this hath been so far from easie , that it is a thing utterly impossible to be done : all the wit and arts , all the malice and cruelty , all the racks and torments that could yet be thought on could not alter mens perswasions of the christian religion , much less raze out the foundations of natural religion in the world . but what imaginable account can be given of the joys and pleasures , which the martyrs of old expressed under the most exquisite torments of their bodies ; if their minds were not of a far nobler and diviner nature than their bodies were ? although a natural stupidity and dulness of temper may abate the sense of pain , although an obstinate resolution may keep men from complaining of it ; yet , not only to bear the cross but to embrace it ; to be not only patient but pleasant under tortures ; nay , to sing with greater joy in the flames than others do when they are heated with wine , doth not only shew that there is something within us capable of pleasure distinct from the body , but that the pleasures of it may be so great as to swallow up the pains of the body . but i need not have recourse to such great and extraordinay instances ; ( although sufficiently attested by such who saw and heard them ) for every good man hath that inward pleasure in being and doing good , which he would not part with for all the greatest epicurism in the world . and where there is , or may be so great pleasure , no wonder if there be likewise a sense of pain proportionable to it ; witness those gripes and tortures of conscience which wicked men undergo from the reflection upon themselves ; when their own evil actions fill them with horror and amazement , when the cruelties they have used to others return with greater violence upon their own minds , when the unlawful pleasures of the body prove the greatest vexation to their souls , and the weight of their evil actions sinks them under despair and the dreadful apprehensions of future misery . these are things we need not search histories , or cite ancient authors for ; every mans own conscience will tell him , if he hath not lost all sense of good and evil ; that as there is a real pleasure in doing good , there is the greatest inward pain in doing evil . having thus shewed that the soul of man is capable of pleasure and pain in this present state distinct from the body , it thence follows that it is capable of rewards and punishments , when it shall be separated from it . . that the souls of men have a power of determining their own actions ; without which there could be no reasonable account given of the rewards and punishments of another life . were i to prove liberty in man from the supposition of religion i know no argument more plain or more convincing than that which is drawn from the consideration of future rewards and punishments : but being now to prove a capacity of rewards and punishments from the consideration of liberty , i must make use of other means to do it by . and what can be imagined greater evidence in beings capable of reflecting upon themselves , than the constant sense and experience of all mankind ? not that all men are agreed in their opinions about these things ; ( for even herein men shew their liberty , by resisting the clearest evidence to prove it ) but that every man finds himself free in the determining his moral actions . and therefore he hath the same reason to believe this , which he hath of his own being or understanding . for what other way hath a man to know that he understands himself or any thing else , but the sense of his own mind ? and those who go about to perswade men that they think themselves free when they are not , may in the next place perswade them that they think they understand when they do not . nay , they might hope in the first place to perswade men out of their understandings , for we are not so competent judges of the more necessary and natural acts , for men understand whether they will or no , as of the more free and voluntary ; for in this case every man can when he pleases put a tryal upon himself , and like the confuting the arguments against motion by moving , can shew the folly of all the pleas for fatal necessity by a freedom of action . but if once this natural liberty be taken away , wisdom and folly as well as vice and vertue would be names invented to no purpose , no men can be said to be better or wiser than others , if their actions do not depend on their own choice and consideration , but on a hidden train of causes which it is no more in a mans power to hinder than in the earth to hinder the falling of rain upon it . if therefore sense and reason may prevail upon mankind , not to fancy themselves under invisible chains and fetters , of which they can have no evidence or experience ; we may thence infer the souls capacity of rewards and punishments in another life , since happiness and misery are set before them , and it must be their own voluntary choice which brings them to either of them : when either by their own folly they run themselves upon everlasting ruine , or by making use of the assistance of divine grace they become capable of endless joy. but since men have not only a power of governing themselves , but are capable of doing it by considerations as remote from the things of sense as heaven is from earth ; it is not conceivable there should be such a power within us , if there were not an immortal soul which is the subject of it . for what is there that hath the shadow of liberty in meer matter ? what is there of these inferiour creatures that can act by consideration of future things , but only man ? whence comes man to consider but from his reason ? or to guide himself by the consideration of future and eternal things , but from an immortal principle within him ; which alone can make things at a distance to be as present , can represent to it self the infinite pleasures and unconceivable misery of an eternal state in such a manner as to direct the course of this present life in order to the obtaining of the one and avoiding of the other . and thus much concerning the supposition here made of the loss of the soul , and its immortality implied therein . i come to consider the hazard of losing the soul for the gain of this world . f●r although our saviour puts the utmost supposable case , the better to represent the folly of losing the soul for the sake of the world ; yet he doth imply the danger may be as great , although a mans ambition never comes to be so extravagant , as to aim at the possession of the whole world . the whole world can never make amends for the loss of the soul ; yet the soul may be lost for a very inconsiderable part of it ; although all the wealth and treasures of the indies can never compensate to a man the loss of his life , yet that may be in as great danger of losing upon far easier terms than those are . it is not to be thought that those whom our saviour speaks to , could ever propose such vast designs to themselves as the empire of the whole world was ; but , he tells them , if that could be supposed , it were far more desirable to save a soul than to gain the world , yet such is the folly of mankind to lose their souls for a very small share of this present world . for the temptations of this world are so many , so great , so pleasing to mankind , and the love of life so natural and so strong , that inconsiderate men will run any hazard of their souls for the gain of one or preservation of the other . the highest instance of this kind is that which our saviour here intends , when men will make shipwrack of faith and a good conscience to escape the danger of their lives ; or with iudas will betray their saviour for some present gain although very far short of that of the whole world . and if i be not much mistaken , it is upon this account , that our saviour pronounces it so hard a for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven , because in such difficult times of persecution on the account of religion as those were ; such men would be shrewdly tempted to venture the loss of their souls in another world rather than of their estates in this . for it was the young mans unwillingness to part with his great possessions to follow christ , which gave him occasion to utter that hard saying . it is on this account st. paul saith , b the love of money is the root of all evil , which while some have coveted after they have erred from the faith and pierced themselves through with many sorrows : it was on this account , c that demas forsook paul , having loved this present world : and that , d the friendship of this world is said to be enmity with god , and that our saviour saith , e no man can serve two masters ; for either he will hate the one and love the other ; else he will hold to the one and despise the other ; ye cannot serve god and mammon . which doth suppose that these two do require two contrary things at the same time ; for if a hundred masters did all require the same thing a man might , in doing that , be said to serve them all . but when religion requires that we must part with all for that , and the world requires that we must part with religion to preserve our interest in it , then it is impossible to serve god and mammon together ; for we must hold to the one and dispise the other . but what then ? is there no danger of the loss of the soul for the sake of this world , but only in the case of persecution ? then , some may say , we hope there is no fear now of mens being too rich to go to heaven . thanks be to god that we live in times free from such dangerous tryals as those of persecution are , and wherein men may quietly enjoy their estates , and the best religion in the world together : but although there be no danger of splitting upon the rocks , there may be of sinking with being overcharged or springing too great a leak within us , whereby we let in more than we can be able to bear . and supposing the most prosperous and easie condition men can fancy to themselves here ; yet the things of this world are so great occasions of evil , so great hindrances of good , that on these accounts men always run a mighty hazard of their souls for the sake of this world . the devil knew well enough where his greatest strength lay , when he reserved the a temptation of the glories of this world to the last place in dealing with christ himself ; when nothing else would prevail upon him , he was yet in hopes that the greatness and splendour of this world would bring him to his terms . and surely if the devil had not a mighty opinion of the power of these charms of the kingdoms and glory of this world , he would never have put such hard terms to them which were no less than falling down and worshipping him : which we do not find he ever durst so much as mention before till he held this bait in his hand . and although our saviour baffled him in this his strongest temptation , yet he still finds , that far less than what he here offered , will bring men in subjection to him . how small a matter of gain will tempt some men to all the sins of lying , of fraud and injustice ? who pawn their souls and put them out at interest for a very small present advantage , although they are sure in a very little time to lose both their interest and the principal too . how many for the sake of the honours and preferments of this world are willing to do by their consciences as the indian did by his letter , lay them aside till their business be done and then expect to hear no more of them ! what poor and trifling things in this world , do men continually venture their souls for ? as though all were clear gains which they could put off so dead a commodity as the salvation of their souls for . how apt are such to applaud themselves for their own skill , when meerly by a little swearing and lying and cheating , things which cost them nothing but a few words , they can defeat the designs of their enemies and compass their own ! but how low is the rate of souls fallen in the esteem of such persons as these are ! if they had not been of any greater value , they had not been worth any ordinary mans , much less , the son of gods laying down his life for the redemption of them . is this all the requital men make him for the travail of his soul , the wounds of his body , the bitterness of his passion , to sq●ander away those souls upon any trifling advantages of this world , which he shed his most p●ecious blood for the redemption of● when ever men are tempted to sin with the hopes of gain , let them but consider how much they undervalue not only their own souls , but the eternal son of god , and all that he hath done and suffered for the sake of the souls of men : if the●e had been no greater worth in our souls , silver and gold would have been a sufficient price of redemption for them ( for if men lose their souls for these things , it is a sign they set a higher value upon them ) but gods justice was not to be bribed , his wrath against sin was not to be appeased by the greatest riches of this world , nothing but the inestimable blood of christ would be accepted for the purchase of souls ; and when they are so dearly bought must they be cast away upon such trifles as the riches and honours of this world are , in comparison with them ? these are men who lose their souls upon design , but there are others so prodigal of them , that they can play and sport them away , or lose them only because it is the custom to do so . with whom all the reasons and arguments in the world cannot prevail to leave off their sins , if it once be accounted a fashion to commit them . yea so dangerous things are fashionable vices , that some will seem to be worse than they are , ( although few continue long hypocritical in that way ) that they might not be out of the fashion , and some will be sure to follow it ( if not out-do it ) though to the eternal ruin of their souls . but although all damn'd persons at the great day will be confounded and ashamed , yet none will be more ridiculously miserable than such who go to hell for fashion sake . what a strange account would this be at the dreadful day of judgement for any to plead for themselves , that they knew that chastity , temperance , sobriety and devotion were things more pleasing to god , but it was grown a mode to be vicious , and they had rather be damned than be out of the fashion ? the most charitable opinion we can have of such persons now , is that they do not think they have any souls at all ; for it is prodigious folly for men to believe they have souls that are immortal , and yet be so regardless of them . yet these who are vicious out of complyance are not the only persons who shew so little care of their souls , what shall we say to those who enjoying the good things of this life , scarce ever do so much as think of another ? who are very solicitous about every little mode of attire for their bodies , and think no time long enough to be spent in the grand affairs of dressing and adorning their out sides ; but from one end of the year to the other never spend one serious thought about eternity , or the future state of their souls . their utmost contrivances are how to pass away their days with the greatest ease and pleasure to themselves ; and never consider what will become of their souls when they come to die . alas poor immortal souls ! are they become the only contemptible things men have about them ? all care is little enough with some for the body , for the pampering and indulging of that , and making provision for the flesh to fulfil the lusts thereof ; but any cure is thought too much for the soul ; and no time passes so heavily away , as the hours of devotion do . the very shew of religion is looked on as a burden , what then do they think of the practice of it ? the devil himself shews a greater esteem of the souls of men , than such persons do ; for he hath been always very active and industrious in seeking their ruin , but is ready enough to comply with all the inclinations of the body , or mens designs in this world ; nay he makes the greatest use of these as the most powerful temptations for the ruin of their souls ; by all which it is evident , that , being our greatest enemy he aims only at the ruin of that which is of greatest value and consideration , and that is the thing so much despised by wicked men , viz. the soul. these do in effect , tell the devil he may spare his pains in tempting them ; they can do his work fast enough themselves , and destroy their own souls without any help from him . and if all men were so bent upon their own ruin , the devil would have so little to do , that he must find out some other imployment besides that of tempting to divert himself with , unless it be the greatest diversion of all to him , to see men turned devils to themselves . but are the temptations of this world so infatuating that no reason or consideration can bring men to any care of or regard to their souls ? we have no ground to think so , since there have been and i hope still are such , who can despise the glittering vanities , the riches and honours , the pleasures and delights of this world when they stand in competition with the eternal happiness of their souls in a better world . and that not out of a sullen humour or a morose temper , or a discontented mind ; but from the most prudent weighing and ballancing the gain of this world and the loss of the soul together . for what is a man profited if he gain the whole world , and lose his own soul , or what shall he give in exchange for his soul ? . which is the last particular , to represent the folly of losing the soul , though it were for the gain of the whole world . which will appear by comparing the gain and the loss with each other in these . things . . the gain here proposed is at the best but possible to one ; but the hazard of losing the soul is certain to all . and what folly is it for men to run themselves upon so great and certain danger , for so uncertain gain , which never any man yet attained to , or are ever like to do it ? our saviour knew how hard a matter it was so set any bounds to the ambitious thoughts or the covetous designs of men : every step the ambitious man takes higher gives him the fairer prospect before him ; it raises his thoughts , enlarges his desires , puts new projects into his mind , which like the circles of water spread still farther and farther , till his honour and he be both laid in the dust together : the covetous person is never satisfied with what he enjoys , the more he gets , still the more he hopes for ; and like the grave whither he is going , is always devouring and always craving : yet neither of these can be thought so vain as to propose no less to themselves than the empire or riches of the whole world . but our saviour allows them the utmost , that ever can be supposed as to mens designs for this world ; let men be never so ambitious or covetous , they could desire no more than all the world ; though they would have all this , yet this all would never make amends for the loss of the soul. it is a thing possible , that one person might by degrees bring the whole world in subjection to him , but it is possible in so remote a degree that no man in his wits can be thought to design it . how small a part of the inhabited world have the greatest conquerours been able to subdue ! and if the macedonian prince was ever so vain to weep that he had no more worlds to conquer , he gave others a just occasion to laugh at so much ignorance which made him think he had conquered this . and to put a check to such a troublesome ambition of disturbing the world in others , how early was he taken away in the midst of his vast thoughts and designs ? what a small thing would the compass of the whole earth appear to one that should behold it at the distance of the fixed stars ? and yet the mighty empires which have made the greatest noise in the world have taken up but an inconsiderable part of the whole earth . what are then those mean designs which men continually hazard their souls for , as much as if they aimed at the whole world ? for we are not to imagine that only kings and princes are in any hazard of losing their souls for the sake of this world ; for it is not the greatness of mens condition , but their immoderate love to the world which ruins and destroys their souls . and covetousness and ambition do not always raign in courts and palaces , they can stoop to the meanness of a cottage , and ruin the souls of such as want the things of this world as well as those that enjoy them . so that no state or condition of men is exempt from the hazard of losing the soul for the love of this world , although but one person can be supposed at once to have the possession of the whole world . . the gain of this world brings but an imaginary happiness , but the loss of the soul a most real misery . it is easie to suppose a person to have the whole world at his command and not himself ; and how can that man be happy that is not at his own command ? the cares of government in a small part of the earth are so great and troublesome , that by the consent of mankind the managers of it are invested with more than ordinary priviledges by way of recompence for them ; but what are these to the solicitous thoughts , the continual fears , the restless imployments , the uninterrupted troubles which must attend the gain of the whole world ? so that after all the success of such a mans designs , he may be farther off from any true contentment than he was at the beginning of them . and in that respect mens conditions seem to be brought to a greater equality in the world , because those who enjoy the most of the world do oft-times enjoy the least of themselves ; which hath made some great emperours lay down their crowns and scepters to enjoy themselves in the retirements of a cloyster or a garden . all the real happiness of this world lies in a contented mind , and that we plainly see doth not depend upon mens outward circumstances ; for some men may be much farther from it in a higher condition in this world , than others are , or it may be themselves have been , in a far lower . but if mens happiness did arise from any thing without them , that must be always agreeable to their outward condition ; but we find great difference as to mens contentment in equal circumtances , and many times much greater in a private state of life , than in the most publick capacity . by which it appears , that what ever looks like happiness in this world , depends upon a mans soul and not upon the gain of the world ; nay it is only from thence that ever men are able to abuse themselves with false notions and idea's of happiness here . but none of those shall go into another world with them ; farewel then to all imaginary happiness ; to the pleasures of sin , and the cheats of a deceitful world ; then nothing but the dreadful apprehensions of its own misery shall possess that soul which shall then too late descern its folly , and lament it when it is past recovery . then the torments of the mind shall never be imputed to melancholy vapours , or a disordered fancy . there will be no drinking away sorrows , no jesting with the sting of conscience , no playing with the flames of another world . god will then no longer be mocked by wicked men , but they shall find to their own eternal horrour and confusion , that it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living god. he neither wants power to inflict , nor justice to execute , nor vengeance to pursue , nor wrath to punish ; but his power is irresistible , his justice inflexible , and his wrath is insupportable . consider now o foolish sinner that hast hither to been ready to cast away thy soul upon the pleasures of sin for a season ; what a wise exchange thou wilt make of a poor imaginary happiness for a most real and intolerable misery . what will all the gain of this world signify in that state whither we are all hastening a pace ? what contentment will it be to thee then to think of all those bewitching vanities , which have betrayed thy soul into unspeakable misery ? wouldst thou be willing to be treated with all the ceremonies of state and greatness for an hour or two , if thou wert sure that immediately after thou must undergo the most exquisite tortures and be racked and tormented to death ? when men neglect their souls and cast them away upon the sinful pleasures and gains of this world , it is but such a kind of aiery and phantastical happiness ; but the miseries of a lost soul are infinitely beyond the racks and torments of the body . it hath sometimes happened that the horrour of despair hath seized upon mens minds for some notorious crimes in this life , which hath giyen no rest either to body or mind , but the violence of the inward pains have forced them to put an end to this miserable life ; as in the case of iudas . but if the expectation of future misery be so dreadful , what must the enduring of it be ? of all the ways of dying we can hardly imagine any more painful or full of honour than that of sacrificing their children to moloch was among the canaanites , and children of ammon where the children were put into the body of a brass image and a fire made under it , which by degrees with lamentable shricks and cryings roasted them to death ; yet this above all others in the new testament is chosen as the fittest representation of the miseries of another world and thence the very name of gehenna is taken . but as the joys of heaven will far surpass all the pleasure which the mind of a good man hath in this life ; so will the torments of hell as much exceed the greatest miseries of this world . but in the most exquisite pains of the body there is that satisfaction still left , that death will at last put an end to them ; but that is a farther discovery of the unspeakable folly of losing the soul for the sake of this world , that . the happiness of this world can last but for a little time , but the misery of the soul will have no end . suppose a man had all the world at his command and enjoyed as much satisfaction in it as it was possible for humane nature to have ; yet the very thoughts of dying and leaving all in a short time , must needs make his happiness seem much less considerable to him . and every wise man would provide most for that state wherein he is sure to continue longest . the shortness of life makes the pleasures of it less desirable , and the miseries less dreadful : but an endless state makes every thing of moment which belongs to it . where there is variety and liberty of change , there is no necessity of any long deliberation before hand , but for that which is to continue always the same the greatest consideration is needful , because the very continuance of some things is apt to bring weariness and satiety with it . if a man were bound for his whole life time to converse only with one person without so much as seeing any other , he would desire time and use his best judgement in the choice of him . if one were bound to lie in the same posture without any motion but for a month together , how would he imploy his wits before hand to make it as easie and tolerable as might be ? thus solicitous and careful would men be for any thing that was to continue the same although but for a short time here : but what are those things to the endless duration of a soul in a misery , that is a perpetual destruction , and everlasting death ; always intolerable and yet must always be endured . a misery that must last when time it self shall be no more ; and the utmost periods we can imagine fall infinitely short of the continuance of it . o the unfathomable abysse of eternity ! how are our imaginations lost in the conceptions of it ! but what will it then be to be swallowed up in an abysse of misery and eternity together ? and i do not know how such an eternal state of misery could have been represented in scripture in words more emphatical than it is ; not only by everlasting fire , and everlasting destrustion , but by a worm that never dyes and a fire that never goes out ; and the very same expressions are used concerning the eternal state of the blessed and the damned ; so that if there were any reason to question the one , there would be the same to question the other also . . the loss of this world may be abundantly recompenced , but the loss of the soul can never be . for what shall a man give in exchange for his soul ? if a man runs the hazard of losing all that is valuable or desirable in this world for the sake of his soul , heaven & eternal happiness will make him infinite amends for it . he will have no cause to repent of his bargain that parts with his share in this evil world for the joys and glories which are above . they who have done this in the resolution of their minds , have before hand had so great satisfaction in it , a that they have gloried in tribulations and rejoyced in hopes of the glory of god ; they have upon casting up their accounts found b that the sufferings of this present life are not worthy to be compared with the glory that shall be revealed ; because the afflictions they meet with here are but light and momentany , but that which they expected in recompence for them , c was an exceeding and an eternal weight of glory . o blessed change ! what life can be so desirable as the parting with it is on such terms as these ? it was the hopes of this glorious recompence which inspired so many martyrs to adventure for heaven with so much courage , patience , and constancy in the primitive times of the christian church . how do they look down from heaven and despise all the vanities of this world in comparison with what they enjoy ! and if they are sensible of what is done on earth with what pity do they behold us miserable creatures , that for the sake of the honours , pleasures , or riches of this world venture the loss of all which they enjoy and thereby of our souls too ! which is a loss so great , that no recompence can ever be made for it , no price of redemption can ever be accepted for the delivery of it . for even the son of god himself who laid down his life for the redemption of souls , shall then come from heaven with flaming fire to take vengeance on all those who so much despise the blood he hath shed for them , the warnings he hath given to them , the spirit he hath promised them , the reward he is ready to bestow upon them , as in spight of all to cast away those precious and immortal souls which he hath so dearly bought with his own blood . methinks the consideration of these things might serve to awaken our security , to cure our stupidity , to check our immoderate love of this world and inflame our desires of a better . wherein can we shew our selves men more than by having the greatest regard to that which makes us men ? which is our souls . wherein can we shew our selves christians better , than by abstaining from all those hurtful lusts which war against our souls , and doing those things which tend to make them happy ? we are all walking upon the shore of eternity , and for all that we know the next tide may sweep us away ; shall we only sport and play or gather cockle shells and lay them in heaps like children , till we are snatched away past all recovery ? it is no such easie matter to prevent the losing our souls as secure sinners are apt to imagine . it was certainly to very little purpose that we are bid a to work out our salvation if lying still would do it ; or b to give all diligence about it , if none would serve the turn : c or to strive to enter in at the straight gate , if it were so wide to receive all sinners . no ? d many shall seek to enter in and shall not be able , what then shall become of those that run as far from it as they can ? those , i mean , whom no intreaties of god himself , no kindness of his son , no not the laying down his life for their souls , no checks or rebukes of their own consciences can hinder from doing those things which do without a speedy and sincere repentance exclude men from the kingdom of heaven . o that men could at last be perswaded to understand themselves and set a just value upon their immortal souls ! how would they then despile the vanities , conquer the temptations , and break through the difficulties of this present world , and by that means fit their souls for the eternal enjoyment of that blessed state of souls which god the father hath promised , his son hath purchased , and the holy ghost hath confirmed . to whom be rendred , &c. finis . a discourse concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ . by edward stillingfleet d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . the second edition . london , printed by robert white , for henry mortlock , and are to be sold at his shops , at the sign of the white hart in westminster hall , and the phoenix in s t. paul's church-yard . . discourse concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ . chap. . of the socinian way of interpreting scripture . of the uncertainty it leaves us in as to the main articles of faith , manifested by an exposition of gen. . suitable to that way . the state of the controversie in general concerning the sufferings of christ for us . he did not suffer the same we should have done . the grand mistake in making punishments of the nature of debts ; the difference between them at large discovered , from the different reason and ends of them . the right of punishment in god , proved against crellius , not to arise from meer dominion . the end of punishment not bare compensation , as it is in debts ; what punishment due to an injured person by the right of nature ; proper punishment a result of laws . crellius his great mistake about the end of punishments . not designed for satisfaction of anger as it is a desire of revenge . seneca and lactantius vindicated against crellius . the magistrates interest in punishment distinct from that of private persons . of the nature of anger in god , and the satisfaction to be made to it . crellius his great arguments against satisfaction depend on a false notion of gods anger . of the ends of divine punishments , and the different nature of them in this and the future state . sir , although the letter i received from your hands contained in it so many mistakes of my meaning and design , that it seemed to be the greatest civility to the writer of it , to give no answer at all to it , because that could not be done , without the discovery of far more weaknesses in him , than he pretends to find in my discourse : yet the weight and importance of the matter may require a further account from me , concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ. wherein my design was so far from representing old errors to the best advantage , or to rack my wits to defend them , as that person seems to suggest ; that i aimed at nothing more than to give a true account of what upon a serious enquiry , i judged to be the most natural and genuine meaning of the christian doctrine contained in the writings of the new testament . for finding therein such multitudes of expressions which to an unprejudiced mind attribute all the mighty effects of the love of god to us , to the obedience and sufferings of christ ; i began to consider what reason there was why the plain and easie sense of those places must be forsaken , and a remote and metaphorical meaning put upon them . which i thought my self the more obliged to do , because i could not conceive if it had been the design of the scripture , to have delivered the received doctrine of the christian church , concerning the reason of the sufferings of christ , that it could have been more clearly and fully expressed than it is already . so that supposing that to have been the true meaning of the several places of scripture which we contend for ; yet the same arts and subtilties might have been used to pervert it , which are imployed to perswade men that is not the true meaning of them . and what is equally serviceable to truth and falshood , can of it self , have no power on the minds of men to convince them it must be one , and not the other . nay , if every unusual and improper acception of words in the scripture , shall be thought sufficient to take away the natural and genuine sense , where the matter is capable of it ; i know scarce any article of faith can be long secure ; and by these arts men may declare that they believe the scriptures , and yet believe nothing of the christian faith. for if the improper , though unusual acception of those expressions of christs dying for us , of redemption , propitiation , reconciliation by his blood , of his bearing our iniquities , and being made sin and a curse for us , shall be enough to invalidate all the arguments taken from them to prove that which the proper sense of them doth imply ; why may not the improper use of the terms of creation and resurrection , as well take away the natural sense of them in the great articles of the creation of the world , and resurrection after death ? for if it be enough to prove that christs dying for us , doth not imply dying in our stead ; because sometimes dying for others imports no more than dying for some advantage to come to them ; if redemption being sometimes used for meer deliverance , shall make our redemption by christ , wholly metaphorical ; if the terms of propitiation reconcilation , &c. shall lose their force because they are sometimes used where all things cannot be supposed parallel with the sense we contend for : why shall i be bound to believe that the world was ever created in a proper sense , since those persons against whom i argue , so earnestly contend that in those places in which it seems as proper as any , it is to be understood only in a metaphorical ? if when the world and all things are said to be made by christ , we are not to understand the production but the reformation of the world and all things in it , although the natural sense of the words be quite otherwise ; what argument can make it necessary for me not to understand the creation of the world in a metaphorical sense , when moses delivers to us the history of it ? why may not i understand in the beginning , gen. . for the beginning of the mosaical dispensation , as well as socinus doth in the beginning , john . for the beginning of the evangelical ? and that from the very same argument used by him , viz. that in the beginning is to be understood of the main subject concerning which the author intends to write , and that i am as sure it was in moses concerning the law given by him as it was in st. iohn , concerning the gospel delivered by christ. why may not the creation of the heavens and the earth , be no more than the erection of the jewish polity ? since it is acknowledged , that by new heavens and new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness , no more is understood than a new state of things under the gospel ? why may not the confused chaos import no more than the state of ignorance and darkness under which the world was before the law of moses ? since it is confessed that it signifies in the new testament such a state of the world before the gospel appeared ? and consequently , why may not the light which made the first day be the first tendencies to the doctrine of moses , which being at first divided and scattered , was united afterwards in one great body of laws , which was called the sun , because it was the great director of the iewish nation , and therefore said to rule the day ; as the less considerable laws of other nations are called the moon , because they were to govern those who were yet under the night of ignorance ? why may not the firmament being in the midst of the waters , imply the erection of the je●…ish state in the midst of a great deal of trouble , since it is confe●●ed , that waters are often taken in scripture in a metaphorical sense for troubles and afflictions ? and the earth appearing out of the waters , be no more but the settlement of that state aft●●●t● troubles ; and particularly with great elegancy a●ter 〈◊〉 p●…age through the red sea ? and the production of herbs and living creatures , be the great encrease of the people of all sorts , as well those of a meaner rank ( and therefore called herbs ) as those of a higher , that were to live upon the other , and sometimes trample upon them , and therefore by way of excellency called the living creatures ? and when these were multiplied and brought into order , ( which being done by steps and degrees , is said to be finished , in several days ) then the state and the church flourished and enjoyed a great deal of pleasure , which was the production of man and woman , and their being placed in paradise ( for a perfect man , notes a high degree of perfection , and a woman is taken for the church in the revelations ) : but when they followed the customs of other nations which were as a forbidden tree to them , then they lost all their happiness and pleasure , and were expelled out of their own country , and lived in great slavery and misery , which was the curse pronounced against them , for violating the rules of policy established among them . thus you see how small a measure of wit , by the advantage of those ways of interpreting scripture , which the subtilest of our adversaries make use of , will serve to pervert the clearest expressions of scripture to quite another sense than was ever intended by the writer of them . and i assure you , if that rule of interpreting scripture be once allowed , that where words are ever used in a metaphorical sense , there can be no necessity of understanding them in a proper ; there is scarce any thing which you look on as the most necessary to be believed in scripture , but it may be made appear not to be so upon those terms : for by reason of the paucity and therefore the ambiguity of the original words of the hebrew language , the strange idioms of it , the different senses of the same word in several conjugations , the want of several modes of expression which are used in other languages , and above all the lofty and metaphorical way of speaking used in all eastern countries , and the imitation of the hebrew idioms in the greek translation of the old testament , and original of the new , you can hardly affix a sense upon any words used therein , but a man who will be at the pains to search all possible significations and uses of those words , will put you hard to it , to make good that which you took to be the proper meaning of them . wherefore although i will not deny to our adversaries the praise of subtilty and diligence , i cannot give them that , ( which is much more praise worthy ) viz. of discretion and sound judgement . for while they use their utmost industry to search all the most remote and metaphorical senses of words , with a design to take off the genuine and proper meaning of them , they do not attend to the ill consequence that may be made of this to the overthrowing those things , the belief of which themselves make necessary to salvation . for by this way the whole gospel may be made an allegory , and the resurrection of christ be thought as metaphorical as the redemption by his death , and the sorce of all the precepts of the gospel avoided by some unusual signification of the words wherein they are delivered . so that nothing can be more unreasonable than such a method of proceeding , unless it be first sufficiently proved that the matter is not capable of the proper sense , and therefore of necessity the improper only is to be allowed . and this is that which socinus seems after all his pains to pervert the meaning of the places in controversie , to rely on most ; viz. that the doctrine of satisfaction doth imply an impossibility in the thing it self , and therefore must needs be false ; nay , he saith the infallibility of the revealer had not been enough in this case , supposing that christ had said it , and risen from the dead , to declare his own veracity ; unless he had delivered it by its proper causes and effects , and so shewed the possibility of the thing it self . and the reason , he saith , why they believe their doctrine true , is not barely because god hath said it , but they believe certainly that god hath said it , because they know it to be true ; by knowing the contrary doctrine to be impossible . the controversie then , concerning the meaning of the places in dispute is to be resolved from the nature and reasonableness of the matter contained in them : for if socinus his reason were answerable to his confidence , if the account we give of the sufferings of christ , were repugnant not only to the justice , goodness and grace of god , but to the nature of the thing ; if it appear impossible , that mankind should be redeemed in a proper sense , or that god should be propitiated by the death of his son as a sacrifice for sin ; if it enervate all the precepts of obedience , and tends rather to justifie sins than those who do repent of them , i shall then agree , that no industry can be too great in searching authors , comparing places , examining versions , to find out such a sense as may be agreeable to the nature of things , the attributes of god , and the design of christian religion . but if on the contrary , the scripture doth plainly assert those things , from whence our doctrine follows , and without which no reasonable account can be given either of the expressions used therein , or of the sufferings of christ ; if christs death did immediately respect god as a sacrifice , and were paid as a price for our redemption ; if such a design of his death be so far from being repugnant to the nature of god , that it highly manifests his wisdom , justice and mercy ; if it assert nothing but what is so far from being impossible , that it is very reconcileable to the common principles of reason , as well as the free-grace of god in the pardon of sin ; if , being truly understood , it is so far from enervating , that it advances highly all the purposes of christian religion , then it can be no less than a betraying one of the grand truths of the christian doctrine , not to believe ours to be the true sense of the places in controversie . and this is that which i now take upon me to maintain . for our clearer proceeding herein , nothing will be more necessary , than to understand the true state of the controversie ; which hath been rendred more obscure by the mistakes of some , who have managed it with greater zeal than judgement ; who have asserted more than they needed to have done , and made our adversaries assert much less than they do : and by this means have shot over their adversaries heads , and laid their own more open to assaults . it is easie to observe , that most of socinus his arguments are levelled against an opinion , which few who have considered these things do maintain , and none need to think themselves obliged to do it ; which is , that christ paid a proper and rigid satisfaction for the sins of men , considered under the notion of debts , and that he paid the very same , which we ought to have done ; which in the sense of the law , is never called satisfaction , but strict payment . against this , socinus disputes from the impossibility of christs paying the very same that we were to have paid ; because our penalty was eternal death , and that as the consequent of inherent guilt , which christ neither did nor could undergo . neither is it enough to say , that christ had undergone eternal death , unless he had been able to free himself from it ; for the admission of one to pay for another , who could discharge the debt in much less time than the offenders could , was not the same which the law required . for that takes no notice of any other than the persons who had sinned ; and if a mediator could have paid the same , the original law must have been disjunctive ; viz. that either the offender must suffer , or another for him ; but then the gospel had not been the bringing in of a better covenant , but a performance of the old . but if there be a relaxation or dispensation of the first law , then it necessarily follows , that what christ paid , was not the very same which the first law required ; for what need of that , when the very same was paid that was in the obligation ? but if it be said , that the dignity of the person makes up , what wanted in the kind or degree of punishment : this is a plain confession that it is not the same , but something equivalent , which answers the ends of the sanction , as much as the same would have done , which is the thing we contend for . besides , if the very same had been paid in the strict sense , there would have followed a deliverance ipso facto ; for the release immediately follows the payment of the same : and it had been injustice to have required any thing further , in order to the discharge of the offender , when strict and full payment had been made of what was in the obligation . but we see that faith and repentance , and the consequences of those two , are made conditions on our parts , in order to the enjoying the benefit of what christ hath procured : so that the release is not immediate upon the payment , but depends on a new contract ; made in consideration of what christ hath done and suffered for us . if it be said , that by christs payment we become his ; and he requires these conditions of us ; besides the contrariety of it to the scriptures , which make the conditions to be required by him to whom the payment was made ; we are to consider , that these very persons assert , that christ paid all for us , and in our name and stead ; so that the payment by christ , was by a substitution in our room ; and if he paid the same which the law required , the benefit must immediately accrue to those in whose name the debt was paid : for what was done in the name of another , is all one to the creditor , as if it had been done by the debtor himself . but above all things , it is impossible to reconcile the freeness of remission , with the full payment of the very same which was in the obligation . neither will it serve to say , that though it was not free to christ , yet it was to us : for the satisfaction and remission must respect the same person ; for christ did not pay for himself , but for us , neither could the remission be to him : christ therefore is not considered in his own name , but as acting in our stead ; so that what was free to him , must be to us ; what was exactly paid by him , it is all one as if it had been done by us ; so that it is impossible the same debt should be fully paid and freely forgiven . much less will it avoid the difficulty in this case to say , that it was a refusable payment ; for it being supposed to be the very same , it was not in justice refusable ; and however not in equity , if it answer the intention of the law , as much as the suffering of the offenders had done ; and the more it doth that , the less refusable it is . and although god himself found out the way , that doth not make the pardon free , but the designation of the person who was to pay the debt . thus when our adversaries dispute against this opinion , no wonder if they do it successfully , but this whole opinion is built upon a mistake , that satisfaction must be the payment of the very same ; which while they contend for , they give our adversaries too great an advantage , and make them think they triumph over the faith of the church , when they do it only over the mistake of some particular persons . but the foundation of this mistake , lies in the consideration of punishment , under the notion of debts , and that satisfaction therefore must be by strict payment in rigor of law ; but how great that mistake is , will appear in the subsequent discourse : but it cannot but be wondred at , that the very same persons who consider sins , as debts which must be strictly satisfied for , do withal contend for the absolute necessity of this satisfaction ; whereas socinus his arguments would hold good , if sins were only considered as debts , and god as the meer creditor of punishment , he might as freely part with his own right without satisfaction , as any creditor may forgive what summ he pleases , to a person indebted to him ; and no reason can be brought to the contrary , from that notion of sins , why he may not do it . but if they be considered with a respect to gods government of the world , and the honour of his laws , then some further account may be given , why it may not be consistent with that , to pass by the sins of men , without satisfaction made to them . and because the mistake in this matter , hath been the foundation of most of the subsequent mistakes on both sides , and the discovery of the cause of errours , doth far more to the cure of them , than any arguments brought against them ; and withal , the true understanding of the whole doctrine of satisfaction depends upon it , i shall endeavour to make clear the notion under which our sins are considered ; for upon that , depends the nature of the satisfaction which is to be made for them . for while our adversaries suppose , that sins are to be looked on under the notion of debts in this debate , they assert it to be wholly free for god to remit them , without any satisfaction . they make the right of punishment meerly to depend on gods absolute dominion ; and that all satisfaction must be considered under the notion of compensation , for the injuries done to him , to whom it is to be made but if we can clearly shew a considerable difference between the notion of debts and punishments , if the right of punishment doth not depend upon meer dominion , and that satisfaction by way of punishment , is not primarily intended for compensation , but for other ends , we shall make not only the state of the controversie much clearer , but offer something considerable towards the resolution of it . the way i shall take for the proof of the difference between debts and punishments , shall be using the other for the arguments for it . for besides , that those things are just in matter of debts , which are not so in the case of punishments ; as , that it is lawful for a man to forgive all the debts which are owing him by all persons , though they never so contumaciously refuse payment , but our adversaries will not say so in the case of sins ; for although they assert , that the justice of god doth never require punishment in case of repentance , yet withal they assert , that in case of impenitency , it is not only agreeable , but due to the nature and decrees ; and therefore to the rectitude and equity of god not to give pardon . but if this be true , then there is an apparent difference between the notion of debts and punishments ; for the impenitency doth but add to the greatness of the debt : and will they say , it is only in gods power to remit small debts , but he must punish the greatest ? what becomes then of gods absolute liberty to part with his own right ? will not this shew more of his kindness to pardon the greater , rather than lesser offenders ? but if there be something in the nature of the thing , which makes it not only just , but necessary for impenitent sinners to be punished , as crellius after socinus frequently acknowledges , then it is plain , that sins are not to be considered meerly as debts , for that obstinacy and impenitency is only punished as a greater degree of sin , and therefore as a greater debt . and withal , those things are lawful in the remission of debts , which are unjust in the matter of punishments ; as it is lawful for a creditor , when two persons are considered in equal circumstances , to remit one , and not the other ; nay , to remit the greater debt , without any satisfaction , and to exact the lesser to the greatest extremity ; but it is unjust in matter of punishments , where the reason and circumstances are the same , for a person who hath committed a crime of very dangerous consequence , to escape unpunished , and another who hath been guilty of far less to be severely executed . besides these considerations , i say , i shall now prove the difference of debts and punishments , from those two things whereby things are best differenced from each other ; viz. the different reason , and the different end of them . the different reason of debts and punishments : the reason of debts is dominion and property , and the obligation of them , depends upon voluntary contracts between parties ; but the reason of punishments is justice and government , and depends not upon meer contracts , but the relation the person stands in to that authority to which he is accountable for his actions . for if the obligation to punishment , did depend upon meer contract , then none could justly be punished , but such who have consented to it by an antecedent contract : if it be said , that a contract is implied , by their being in society with others ; that is as much as i desire to make the difference appear , for in case of debts , the obligation depends upon the voluntary contract of the person ; but in case of punishments , the very relation to government , and living under laws doth imply it . and the right of punishment depends upon the obligation of laws , where the reason of them holds , without any express contract , or superiority of one over another ; as in the case of violation of the law of nations , that gives right to another nation to punish the infringers of it . otherwise wars could never be lawful between two nations , and none could be warrantable , but those of a prince against his rebellious subjects , who have broken the laws themselves consented expresly to . besides , in case of debts , every man is bound to pay , whether he be call'd upon or no ; but in case of punishments , no man is bound to betray or accuse himself . for the obligation to payment in case of debt ; ariseth from the injury sustained by that particular person , if another detains what is his own from him ; but the obligation to punishment , arises from the injury the publick sustains by the impunity 〈◊〉 of crimes , of which the magistrates are to take care ; who by the dispensing of punishments , do shew that to be true which grotius asserts , that if there be any creditor to be assigned in punishment , it is the publick good : which appears by this , that all punishments are proportioned , according to the influence the offences have upon the publick interest ; for the reason of punishment is not because a law is broken , but because the breach of a law tends to dissolve the community , by infringing the authority of the laws , and the honour of those who are to take care of them . for if we consider it , the measure of punishments is in a well ordered state , taken from the influence which crimes have upon the peace and interest of the community . no man questions , but that malice , pride and avarice , are things really as bad as many faults , that are severely punished by humane laws ; but the reason these are not punished is , because they do not so much injury to the publick interest , as theft and robbery do . besides , in those things wherein the laws of a nation are concerned , the utmost rigor is not used in the preventing of crimes , or the execution of them when committed , if such an execution may endanger the publick more than the impunity of the offenders may do . and there are some things which are thought fit to be forbidden , where the utmost means are not used to prevent them ; as merchants are forbidden to steal customs , but they are not put under an oath not to do it . and when penalties have been deserved , the execution of them hath been deferred , till it may be most for the advantage of the publick : as ioabs punishment till solomons reign , though he deserved it as much in davids . so that the rule commonly talked of , fiat justitia & pereat mundus , is a piece of pedantry , rather than true wisdom ; for whatever penalty inflicted , brings a far greater detriment to the publick , than the forbearance of it , is no piece of justice to the state , but the contrary , the greatest law , being the safety and preservation of the whole body . by which it appears , that in humane laws , the reason of punishment is not , that such an action is done , but because the impunity in doing it , may have a bad influence on the publick interest ; but in debts , the right of restitution depends upon the injury received by a particular person , who looks at no more than the reparation of his loss by it . we are now to consider , how far these things will hold in divine laws , and what the right of punishment doth result from there . for crellius , the subtillest of our adversaries , knowing how great consequence the resolution of this is , in the whole controversie of satisfaction , vehemently contends , that the right of punishment doth result from gods absolute dominion , and therefore he is to be considered as the offended party , and not as governor in the right of inflicting punishment ; for which his first argument is , that our obedience is due to gods law , on the account of his dominion ; but when that is not performed , the penalty succeeds in its room , and therefore that doth belong to god on the same account : his other arguments are , from the compensation of injuries due to the offended party , and from gods anger against sin , in which he is to be considered as the offended party : these two latter will be answered under the next head ; the first i am to examine here . he therefore tells us , that the right of punishment belongs to gods dominion , because the reason of his government of mankind is , because he is the lord of them . but , for our better understanding this , we are to consider , although the original right of government doth result from gods dominion ; for therefore our obedience is due , because of his soveraignty over us ; yet when god takes upon him the notion of a governor , he enters into a new relation with his creatures , distinct from the first as meer lord. for he is equally lord of all to whom he gives a being , but he doth not require obedience upon equal terms , nor governs them by the same laws : dominion is properly shewed in the exercise of power ; but when god gives laws according to which he will reward and punish , he so far restrains the exercise of his dominion to a subserviency to the ends of government . if we should suppose , that god governs the world meerly by his dominion , we must take away all rewards and punishments ; for then the actions of men , would be the meer effects of irresistable power , and so not capable of rewards and punishments ; for there could be neither of these , where mens actions are not capable of the differences of good and evil , and that they cannot be , if they be the acts of gods dominion , and not of their own . but if god doth not exercise his full dominion over rational creatures , it is apparent that he doth govern them under another notion than as meer lord , and the reason of punishment is not to be taken from an absolute right which god doth not make use of , but from the ends and designs of government , which are his own honour , the authority of his laws , and the good of those whom he doth govern . and crellius is greatly mistaken , when he makes punishment to succeed in the place of the right of obedience ; for it is only the desert of punishment , which follows upon the violation of that right , and as we assert , that the right of obedience is derived from gods soveraignty , so we deny not , but the desert of punishment is from the violation of it ; but withal we say , that the obligation to punishment depends upon the laws , and gods right to inflict punishment ( laws being supposed ) is immediately from that government which he hath over mankind : for otherwise , if the whole right of punishment did still depend upon gods dominion , and the first right of soveraignty , then al sins must have equal punishments , because they are all equal violations of the fundamental right of obedience ; then it were at liberty for god to punish a greater sin , with a less punishment ; and a lesser sin , with a greater : and lastly , this would make the punishment of sin , a meer arbitrary thing in god ; for there would be no reason of punishment , but what depended upon gods meer will ; whereas the reason of punishment in scripture is drawn from a repugnancy of sin to the divine purity and holyness , and not meerly from gods power or will to punish ; but if that were all the reason of it , there would be no repugnancy in the nature of the thing for the most vitious person to be rewarded , and the most pious to be made everlastingly miserable . but who ever yet durst say or think so ? from whence it appears that the relation between sin and punishment is no result of gods arbitrary will ; but it is founded in the nature of the things , so that as it is just for god to punish offenders , so it would be unjust to punish the most innocent person without any respect to sin . but if the right of punishment depends meerly on gods dominion , i cannot understand why god may not punish when , and whom , and in what manner he pleaseth ; without any impeachment of his justice , and therefore it is to be wonder'd at , that the same persons who assert the right of punishment to be meerly in gods dominion , should yet cry out of the injustice of one person being punished for anothers faults ; for why may not god exercise his dominion in this case ? yes , say they , he may his dominion , but he cannot punish , because punishment supposes guilt , and cannot be just without it ; how far that reaches , will be examined afterwards ; at present , we take notice of the contradiction to themselves which our adversaries are guilty of , that they may serve their own hypothesis , for when we dispute with them , against absolute remission without satisfaction , then they contend that the right of punishment is a meer act of dominion , and god may part with his right , if he please ; but when they dispute with us against the translation of punishment from one to another , then they no longer say that the right of punishment is an act of dominion , but that it is a necessary consequent of inherent guilt , and cannot be removed from one to another . and then they utterly deny that punishment is of the nature of debts ; for one mans money , they say , may become anothers , but one mans punishment cannot become anothers : thus they give and take , deny and grant , as it serves for their present purposes . . the different end of debts and punishments , make it appear that there is a difference in the nature of them ; for the intention of the obligation to payment in case of debt , is the compensation of the damage which the creditor sustains ; but the intention of punishment , is not bare compensation , but it is designed for greater and further ends . for which we are to consider the different nature of punishments , as they are inflicted by way of reparation of some injury done to private persons , and as they do respect the publick good . i grant , that private persons in case of injuries , seek for compensation of the damage they sustain , and so far they bear the nature of debts ; but if we consider them as inflicted by those who have a care of the publick , though they are to see that no private persons suffers injury by another ; yet the reason of that is not meerly that he might enjoy his own , but because the doing injuries to others tends to the subversion of the ends of government . therefore , i can by no means admit that position of crellius , that a magistrate only punishes as he assumes the person of the particular mon who have received injuries from other ; for he aims at other ends than meerly the compensation of those injured persons . their great end is according to the old roman formula , nè quid resp. detrimenti capiat : the reason of exacting penalties upon private men is still with a regard to the publick safety . supposing men in a state of nature no punishment is due to the injured person , but restitution of damage , and compensation of the loss that accrues to him by the injury sustained ; and whatever goes beyond this , is the effect of government , which constitutes penalties for preservation of the society which is under laws . but herein crellius is our adversary , but with no advantage at all to his cause ; for he offers to prove against grotius , that something more is due by an injury beyond bare compensation for what the other is supposed to lose by the right of nature ; for saith he , in every injury there is not only the reall damage which the person sustains , but there is a contempt of the person implyed in it , for which as well as the former , he ought to have compensation . to which i answer , . that this doth not prove what he designs , viz. that punishment doth belong to the injured person in a state of nature , beyond bare restitution , but that it is necessary , that men should not continue in such a state , that so they may be vindicated from that contempt , and others compelled to restitution . both which , as they are punishments , are not in the power of the offended party as such , but shew that it is very reasonable there should be laws and governours , that private persons may be preserved in their just rights , and offenders punished for the vindication not only of their honour , but of the laws too . and laws being established , the injured person hath right to no more , than the compensation of his loss ; for that being forced upon the offending party , is a sufficient vindication of his honour . . if the contempt of a private person makes a compensation necessary , how much more will this hold in a publick magistrate ; whose contempt by disobedience is of far worse consequence than that of a private person . and by this argument crellius overthrows his main hypothesis , viz. that god may pardon sin without satisfaction ; for if it be not only necessary , that the loss be compensated but the dishonour too ; then so much greater as the dishonour is ; so much higher as the person is ; so much more beneficial to the world as his laws are ; so much more necessary is it that in order to pardon there must be a satisfaction made to him , for the affronts he hath received from men . and if the greatness of the injury be to be measured as crellius asserts , from the worth and value of the thing , from the dignity and honour of the person , from the displicency of the fact to him , which he makes the measure of punishment ; this makes it still far more reasonable , that god should have satisfaction for the sins of men , than that men should have for the injuries done them by one another ; especially considering what the same author doth assert afterwards , that it is sometime repugnant to justice , for one to part with his own right in case of injuries , & that either from the nature and circumstances of the things themselves , or a decree or determination to the contrary , for the first he instanceth in case of not orious defamation ; in which he saith , it is a dishonest and unlawful thing for a man , not to make use of his own right for his vindication , and for the other , in case of great obstinacy and malice . by both which , it is most apparent , that crellius puts a mighty difference between the nature of debts , and punishments , since in all cases he allows it lawful for a person free , to remit his debts ; but in some cases he makes it utterly unlawful for a person not to make use of his right for punishment . and withal if a private person may not part with his own right in such cases , how unreasonable is it not to assert the same of the great governour of the world ? and that there may be a necessity for him upon supposition of the contempt of himself and his laws , to vindicate himself and his honour to the world , by some remarkable testimony of his severity against sin . but crellius yet urgeth another end of punishment which though the most unreasonable of all others , yet sufficiently proves from himself the difference of debts and punishments , which is , the delight which the injured person takes in seeing the offender punished . this he so much insists upon , as though he made it the most natural end of punishment , for saith he , among the punishments which a prince or any other free person can inflict , revenge is in the first place , and the more there is of that in any thing , the more properly it is called a punishment ; and he tells what he means by this ultio ; viz. solatium ex alieno dolore , the contentment taken in anothers pain . but saith he , no man must object , that this is a thing evil in it self ; for although it be forbidden us under the new testament , yet in it self it is not unlawful for one that hath suffered pain from another to seek for the case of his own pain , by the miseries of him that injured him : and for this purpose , saith he , we have the passion of anger in us , which being a desire of returning injuries , is then satisfied when it apprehends it done . but how absurd and unreasonable this doctrine is , will be easily discovered , for this would make the primary intendment of punishment to be the evil of him that suffers it . whereas the right of punishment is derived from an injury received , and therefore that which gives that right , is some damage sustained , the reparation of which is the first thing designed by the offended party : though it take not up the whole nature of punishment . and on this account no man can justly propose any end to himself in anothers evil , but what comes under the notion of restitution . for the evil of another is only intended in punishment as it respects the good of him for whose sake that evil is undergone . when that good may be obtained without anothers evil , the desire of it is unjust and unreasonable : and therefore all that contentment that any one takes in the evil another undergoes , as it is evil to him , is a thing repugnant to humane nature , and which all persons condemn in others when they allow themselves in it . it will be hard for crellius to make any difference between this end of punishment which he assigns , and the greatest cruelty ; for what can that be worse than taking delight in making others miserable , and seeing them so when he hath made them . if it be replyed , that cruelty is without any cause , but here a just cause is supposed , i answer , a just cause is only supposed for the punishment , but there can be no just cause for any to delight in the miseries of others , and to comfort themselves by inflicting or beholding them . for the evil of another is never intended , but when it is the only means left for compensation ; and he must be guilty of great inhumanity , who desires anothers evil any further than that tends to his own good , i. e. the reparation of the damage sustained ; which if it may be had without anothers evil , then that comes not by the right of nature within the reason of punishment ; and consequently where it doth not serve for that end , the comfort that men take in it is no part of justice , but cruelty . for there can be no reason at all assigned for it ; for that lenimentum doloris which crellius insists on is meerly imaginary , and no other than the dog hath in gnawing the stone that is thrown at him ; and for all that i know , that propension in nature to the retribution of evil for evil any further than it tends to our security , and the preservation for the future , is one of the most unreasonable passions in humane nature . and if we examine the nature of anger either considered naturally or morally , the intention of it is not the returning evil to another , for the evil received , but the security and preservation of our selves , which we should not have so great a care of , unless we had a quick sense of injuries , and our blood were apt to be heated at the apprehension of them . but when this passion vents it self , in doing others injury to alleviate its own grief , it is a violent and unreasonable perturbation ; but being governed by reason , it aims at no more , than the great end of our beings ; viz. self-preservation . but when that cannot be obtained without anothers evil , so far the intendment of it is lawful , but no further . and i cannot therefore think those philosophers , who have defined anger to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by whose authority crellius defends himself , when he makes anger to be a desi●e of revenge , did throughly consider what was just and reasonable in it , but barely what was natural , and would be the effect of that passion , if not governed by reason . for otherwise iul. scaligers definition is much more true and justifiable , that it is appetitus depulsionis ; viz. that whereby we are stirred up to drive away from us , any thing that is injurious to us . but because crellius alledgeth a saying of seneca , that would make vindicta of the nature of punishment , duabus de causis punire princeps solet , si aut se vindicet aut alium : we shall oppòse to this the sense of the same author in this matter , which may sufficiently clear the other passage : for , saith he , inhumanum verbum est , & quidem pro justo receptum , ultio , & a contumelia non differt nisi ordine : qui dolorem regerit , tantum excusatius peccat . and no man speaks with greater vehemency against the delight in others punishments than he doth ; for he always asserts , the only reason of punishment , to be some advantage which is to come by it , and not meerly to satisfie anger , or to allay their own griefs , by seeing anothers : for , saith he , the punishment is inflicted , non quia delectetur ullius poena ( proculest enim à sapiente tam inhumana feritas ) sed ut documentum omnium sint : so that it is only the usefulness of punishment according to him , which makes it become any wiseman ; and so far from a satisfaction of his grief by anothers punishment , that he makes that a piece of inhumanity , not incident to any who pretend to wisdom . nay , he denies , that a just punishment doth flow from anger ; for he that inflicts that , doth it , non ipsius poenae avidus sed quia oportet , not as desiring the punishment , but because there are great reasons for it : and elsewhere , exsequar quia oportet , non quia dolet : he is far enough then from approving , that imaginary compensation of one mans grief by anothers . and he shews at large , that the weakest natures , and the least guided by reason , are the most subject to this anger and revenge . and although other things be pretended , the general cause of it is , a great infirmity of humane nature ; and thence it is , that children and old men , and sick persons , are the most subject to it ; and the better any are , the more they are freed from it : — quippe minuti semper & infirmi est animi , exiguique voluptas ultio — he makes cruelty to be nothing else , but the intemperance of the mind in exacting punishment ; and the difference between a prince and a tyrant to lye in this , that one delights in punishing , the other never does it but in case of necessity , when the publick good requires it . and this throughout his discourse , he makes the measure of punishment ; who then could imagine , that he should speak so contradictory to himself , as to allow punishment for meer revenge , or the easing ones own griefs , by the pains of another ? in the places cited by crellius , ( if taken in his sense ) he speaks what commonly is , not what ought to be in the world ; for he disputes against it in that very place , therefore that cannot be the meaning which he contends for . the common design of punishments by a prince , saith he , is either to vindicate himself or others . i so render his words , because vindicare , when it is joyned with the person injured , as here , vindicare se aut alium , doth properly relate to the end of punishment , which is asserting the right of the injured person ; but when it is joyned with the persons who have done the injury , or the crimes whereby they did it , then it properly signifies to punish . thus salust useth , vindicatum in eos ; and cicero , in milites nostros vehementer vindicatum , and for the fact very frequently in him , maleficia vindicare : but when it relates to the injured person , as here it doth , it cannot signifie meerly to punish ; for then se vindicare would be to punish ones self , but to assert his own right in case of injury , though it be with the punishment of another : for vindicatio , as cicero defines it , est per quam vis & injuria & omnino quod obsuturum est defendendo aut ulciscendo propulsatur . so that the security of our selves in case of force or injury , is that which is called vindication ; which sometimes may be done by defence , and other times by punishment . and that seneca doth mean no more here , is apparent by what follows ; for in case of private injuries , he saith , poenam si tutò poterit donet , he would have the prince forgive the punishment , if it may be done with safety ; so that he would not have any one punished , to satisfie anothers desire of revenge , but to preserve his own safety : and afterwards he saith , it is much beneath a princes condition , to need that satisfaction which arises from anothers sufferings : but for the punishments of others , he saith , the law hath established three ends , the amendment of the persons , or making others better by their punishments , or the publick security , by taking away such evil members out of the body : so that in publick punishments , he never so much as supposes , that contentment which revenge fancies in others punishments , but makes them wholly designed for the publick advantage . for the laws in punishment do not look backward but forward ; for as * plato saith , no wise man ever punished , meerly because men had offended , but lest they should : for past things cannot be rec●●ed , but future are , therefore forbidden , that they may be prevented . so to the same purpose is the saying of lactantius , produced by grotius , surgimus ad vindictam non quia laest sumus , sed ut disciplina servetur , mores corrigantur , licentia comprimatur : haec est ira justa . to which crellius answers , that this signifies nothing , unless it can be proved , that no man may justly punish another , meerly because he is wronged . if he means of the right to punish , we deny not that to be , because the person is wronged ; but if he understands it of the design and end of punishment , then we deny , that it is an allowable end of punishments , any further than it can come under the notion of restitution , of which we have spoken already . when a master ( which is the instance he produceth ) punisheth his servants , because they have disobeyed him : the reason of that punishment , is not the bare disobedience , but the injury which comes to him by it ; the reparation of which he seeks by punishment , either as to his authority , security or profit . but he adds , that where punishment is designed , for preservation of discipline , and amendment of manners , and keeping persons in order , ( which are the ends mentioned by lactantius ) it is where the interest of the person lies , in the preservation of thes● , and is thefore offended at the neglect of them . to which i answer , that the interest of such a one , is not barely the interest of an offended party , as such , but the interest of a governor ; and no body denies , but such a one may be an offended party : but the question is , whether the design of punishment be meerly to satisfie him as the offended party , or to answer the ends of government ? for crellius hath already told us , what it is to satisfie one as an offended party , that is , to ease himself by the punishment of others ; but what ever is designed for the great ends of government , is not to be considered under that notion , although the governor may be justly offended at the neglect of them . and there is this considerable difference between the punishment made to an offended party , as such , and that which is for the ends of government , that the former is a satisfaction to anger , and the latter to laws and the publick interest . for crellius disputes much for the right of anger in exacting punishments ; the satisfaction of which , in case of real injury , he never makes unlawful , but in case that it be prohibited us by one , whose power is above our own : nay he makes it otherwise the primary end of punishment . so that anger is the main thing upon these terms to be respected in punishment : but where it is designed for the ends before mentioned , there is no necessity of any such passion as anger to be satisfied , the ends of punishment may be attained wholly without it : and publick punishment , according to seneca , non ira sed ratio est , is no effect of anger , but reason ; for , saith he , nihil minus quam irasci punientem decet : nothing less becomes one that punisheth , than anger doth ; for all punishments being considered as medicines , no man ought to give physick in anger , or to let himself blood in a sury : a magistate , saith he , when he goes to punish , ought to appear only vultu legis quae non irascitur , sed constituit , with the continuance of the law , which appoints punishments without passion : the reason of which is , because the law aims not primarily at the evil of the man that suffers punishment , but at the good which comes to the publick by such sufferings . for the first design of the law was to prevent any evil being done , and punishment coming in by way of sanction to the force of the law , must have the same primary end which the law it self had ; which is not to satisfie barely the offended party for the breach , any further than that satisfaction tends to the security of the law , and preventing the violation of it for the future . the substance of what i have said upon this subject , may be thus briefly comprized , that antecedently to laws , the offended party hath right to no more than bare reparation of the damage sustained by the injury ; that the proper notion of punishment is consequent to laws , and the inflicting of it is an act of government , which is not designed for meer satisfaction of the anger of the injured person , but for the publick good , which lies in preserving the authority of the laws , the preventing all injuries by the security of mens just rights , and the vindication of the dignity and honor of him , who is to take care of the publick good . for these crellius himself acknowledgeth , to be the just ends of punishments , only he would have the satisfaction a man takes in anothers evil , to come in the first place ; wherein how much he is mistaken , i hope we have already manifested . because the proper nature of punishment depending upon laws , the laws do not primarily design the benefit of private persons ( supposing that were so ) but the advantage of that community which they are made for . and in those cases wherein the magistrate doth right to particular persons in the punishment of those who have injured them , he doth it not as taking their person upon him , for he aims at other things than they do ; they look at a bare compensation for the injury received ; but the magistrate at the ill consequence the impunity of injuries may be of to the publick : they , it may be at the satisfaction of their disoleasure ; but he at the satisfaction of the laws ; they at their own private damage ; he at the violation of the publick peace . and from hence among those nations who valued all crimes at a certain rate , in matters of injury between man and man , the injured person was not only to receive compensation for his wrong ; but a considerable fine was to be paid to the exchequer for the violation of the publick peace . this tacitus observes among the old germans , grotius of the old gothick laws , and from them ( as most of our modern laws and customs are derived ) lindenbrogius of the salick , alemannick , lombardick , spelman of the saxon , who tells us in case of murder there were three payments , one to the kindred , which was called megbote ; the second to the lord , called manbote , the third to the king , called freda from the german frid , which signifies peace , it being the consideration paid to the king for the breach of the publick peace . and this , saith he , in all actions , was anciently paid to the king , because the peace was supposed to be broken , not by meer force , but by any injuries ; and if the action was unjust , the plain tiffe paid it ; if just , the defendant . and the measure of it , saith bignonius , was the tenth part of the value of the thing as estimated by law ; which by the customs of the ancient romans was deposited at the commencing of a suit by both , and only taken up again by him who overcame ; and was by them called sacramentum , as varro tells us . and the same custom was observed among the greeks too , as appears by iulius pollux , who tells us it was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 among them , and in publick actions was the fifth part , in private the tenth . but that which was paid to the publick in case of murder , was among the greeks called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the same with poena , for hesychius tells us that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and to the same purpose the scholiast on homer on those words , iliad . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by which the original of the name poena , comes from a payment made to the publick , according to that known rule , interest reip . delicta puniri , that persons may see how much the publick safety is concerned , that crimes be punished . from which and many other things which might be insisted on , crellius his hypothesis will appear to be false , viz. that when the magistrate doth judge in the affairs of particular men , he doth it only as assuming the person of those men ; whereas it appears from the reason of the thing , and the custom of nations , that the interest of the magistrate is considered as distinct from that of private persons , when he doth most appear in vindication of injuries . but all this is managed with a respect to the grand hypothesis , viz that the right of punishing doth belong only to the offended party as such , that the punishment is of the nature of debts , and the satisfaction by compensation to the anger of him who is offended . the falsity of which this discourse was designed to discover . having thus considered the nature of punishments among men , we come more closely to our matter , by examining how far this will hold in the punishments which god inflicts on the account of sin . for which two things must be enquired into , . in what sense we attribute anger to god. . what are the great ends of those punishments god inflicts on men on the account of sin . for the first , though our adversaries are very unwilling to allow the term of punitive justice , yet they contend for a punitive anger in god , and that in the worst sense as it is appetitus vindictae : for after crellius hath contended that this is the proper notion of anger in general ; neither ought any one to say , he adds , that anger as other passions is attributed improperly to god ; for setting aside the imperfections , which those passions are subject to in us , all the rest is to be attributed to him ; taking away then that perturbation , and pain , and grief we find in our selves in anger , to which the abhorrency of sin answers in god , all the rest doth agree to him . i would he had a little more plainly told us what he means by all the rest , but we are to ghess at his meaning by what went before , where he allows of cicero , and aristotles definition of anger , whereof the one is , that it is libido , or ( as crellius would rather have it , ) cupiditas puniendi , the other 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. and himself calls it poenae appetitio , and in another place , that it may be as properly defined cupiditas vindictae as cupiditas poenae , or affectus vindicandi , as well as puniendi : in all which places , he doth assert such an anger in god as supposes such a motion , or desire , or inclination to punish sin when it is committed , as there is in us when an injury is done us , only the perturbation and pain excluded . but he hath not thought fit to explain how such new motions or inclinations in the divine nature every time sin is commited , are consistent with the immutability and perfection of it ; nor what such a kind of desire to punish in god imports , whether a meer inclination without the effect , or an inclination with the effect following : if without the effect , then either because the sin was not great enough , or gods honour was not concerned to do it , and in this case the same reasons which make the effect not to follow , make the desire of it inconsistent with the divine wisdom and perfection : or else because the effect is hindred by the repentance of the person , or some other way which may make it not necessary to do it ; then upon the same reason the effect is suspended , the inclination to do it should be so too ; for that must be supposed to be governed by an eternal reason and counsel as well as his actions ; unless some natural passions in god be supposed antecedent to his own wisdom and counsel , which is derogatory to the infinite perfection of god , since those are judged imperfections in our selves : if it be taken only with the effect following it , then god can never be said to be angry but when he doth punish , whereas his wrath is said to be kindled in scripture , where the effect hath not followed ; which if it implies any more than the high provocation of god to punish ( as i suppose it doth not ) then this inclination to punish is to be conceived distinct from the effect following it . but that conception of anger in god seems most agreeable to the divine nature , as well as to the scriptures , which makes it either the punishment it self , as crellius elsewhere acknowledges it is often taken so ; or gods declaration of his will to punish , which is called the revelation of the wrath of god against all unrighteousness of men , god thereby discovering the just displeasure he hath against sin ; or the great provocation of god to punish , by the sins of men ; as when his wrath is said , to be kindled , &c. by this sense we may easily reconcile all that the scripture saith concerning the wrath of god ; we make it agreeable to infinite perfection , we make no such alterations in god , as the appeasing of his anger must imply , if that imply any kind of commotion in him . and thus the grand difficulty of crellius appears to be none at all , against all those passages of scripture which speak of appeasing god , of attonement , and reconciliation , viz. that if they prove satisfaction , they must prove that god being actually angry with mankind before the sufferings of his son , he must be presently appeased upon his undergoing them . for no more need to be said , than that god being justly provoked to punish the sins of mankind , was pleased to accept of the sufferings of his son , as a sufficient sacrifice of attonement for the sins of the world , on consideration of which he was pleased to offer those terms of pardon , which upon mens performance of the conditions required on their part , shall be sufficient to discharge them from that obligation to punishment which they were under by their sins . and what absurdity , or incongruity there is in this to any principle of reason , i cannot imagine . but our adversaries first make opinions for us , and then shew they are unreasonable . they first suppose that anger in god is to be considered as a passion , and that passion a desire of revenge for satisfaction of it ; and then tell us , that if we do not prove , that this desire of revenge can be satisfied by the sufferings of christ , then we can never prove the doctrine of satisfaction to be true ; whereas we do not mean by gods anger any such passion , but the just declaration of gods will to punish upon our provocation of him by our sins ; we do not make the design of satisfaction to be , that god may please himself in the revenging the sins of the guilty upon the most innocent person ; because we make the design of punishment , not to be the satisfaction of anger as a desire of revenge , but to be the vindication of the honour and rights of the injured person , by such a way as himself shall judge most satisfactory to the ends of his government . . which is the next thing we are to clear : for which end we shall make use of the concession of crellius , that god hath prefixed some ends to himself in the government of mankind ; which being supposed , it is necessary , that impenitent sinners should be punished . what these ends of god are , he before tells us , when he enquires into the ends of divine punishments , which he makes to be , security for the future , by mens avoiding sins , and a kind of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or pleasure which god takes in the destruction of his implacable enemies , and the asserting and vindicating his own right by punishing , and shewing men thereby , with what care and fear they ought to serve him ; and so attains the ends of punishment proposed by lactantius , and manifestation of the divine honor and majesty , which hath been violated by the sins of men . all these we accept of , with this caution , that the delight which god takes in the punishing his implacable enemies , be not understood of any pleasure in their misery , as such , by way of meer revenge ; but as it tends to the vindication of his right , and honor , and majesty ; which is an end suitable to the divine nature : but the other cannot in it self ; have the notion of an end ; for an end doth suppose something desirable for it self ; which surely the miseries of others cannot have to us , much less to the divine nature . and that place which crellius insists on to prove the contrary , deut. . . the lord will rejoyce over you , to destroy you ; imports no more , than the satisfaction god takes in the execution of his justice , when it makes most for his honour , as certainly it doth in the punishment of his greatest enemies . and this is to be understood in a sense agreeable to those other places , where god is said not to delight in the death of sinners ; which doth not ( as crellius would have it ) meerly express gods benignity and mercy , but such an agreeableness of the exercise of those attributes to gods nature , that he neither doth nor can delight in the miseries of his creatures in themselves , but as they are subservient to the ends of his government ; and yet such is his kindness in that respect too , that he useth all means agreeable thereto , to make them avoid being miserable , to advance his own glory . and i cannot but wonder that grotius , who had asserted the contrary in his book of satisfaction , should in his books de iure belli ac pacis , assert , that when god punisheth wicked men , he doth it for no other end , but that he might punish them : for which he makes use of no other arguments , than those which crellius had objecte●●gainst him ; viz. the delight god takes in punishing , and t●… judgements of the life to come , when no amendment can be expected ; the former hath been already answered , the latter is objected by crellius against him , when he makes the ends of punishment , meerly to respect the community , which cannot be asserted of the punishments of another life , which must chiefly respect the vindication of gods glory , in the punishment of unreclaimable sinners . and this we do not deny to be a just punishment , since our adversaries themselves , as well as we , make it necessary . but we are not to understand , that the end of divine punishments doth so respect the community , as though god himself were to be excluded out of it ; for we are so to understand it , as made up of god as the governor , and mankind as the persons governed , whatever then tends to the vindication of the rights of gods honor and soveraignty , tends to the good of the whole , because the manifestation of that end is so great an end of the whole . but withal , though we assert in the life to come , the ends of punishment not to be the reclaiming of sinners , who had never undergone them , unless they had been unreclaimable ; yet a vast difference must be made between the ends of punishments in that , and in this present state . for the other is the reserve , when nothing else will do , and therefore was not primarily intended ; but the proper ends of punishment , as a part of government , are to be taken from the design of them in this life . and here we assert , that gods end in punishing , is the advancing his honor , not by the meer miseries of his creatures , but that men by beholding his severity against sin , should break off the practice of it , that they may escape the punishments of the future state . so that the ends of punishment here , are quite of another kind , from those of another life ; for those are inflicted , because persons have been unreclaimable by either the mercies or punishments of this life ; but these are intended , that men should so far take notice of this severity of god , as to avoid the sins which will expose them to the wrath to come . and from hence it follows , that whatsoever sufferings , do answer all these ends of divine punishments , and are inflicted on the account of sin , have the proper notion of punishments in them , and god may accept of the undergoing them as a full satisfaction to his law , if they be such as tend to break men off from sin , and assert gods right , and vindicate his honor to the world ; which are the ends assigned by crellius , and will be of great consequence to us in the following discourse . chap. ii. the particular state of the controversie , concerning the sufferings of christ. the concessions of our adversaries . the debate reduced to two heads : the first concerning christs sufferings , being a punishment for sin , entred upon . in what sense crellius acknowledgeth the sins of men , to have been the impulsive cause of the death of christ. the sufferings of christ proved to be a punishment , from scripture . the importance of the phrase of bearing sins . of the scape-goats bearing the sins of the people into the wilderness . grotius his sense of pet. . . vindicated against crellius and himself . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 never used for the taking away a thing by the destruction of it . crellius his sense examined . isa. . . vindicated . the argument from mat. . . answered . grotius constant to himself in his notes on that place . isa. . , , . cleared . whether christs death be a proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and whether that doth imply , that it was a punishment of sin ? how far the punishments of children for their fathers faults , are exemplary among men . the distinction of calamities and punishments , holds not here . that gods hatred of sin could not be seen in the sufferings of christ , unless they were a punishment of sin , proved against crellius . grotius his arguments from christ being made sin and a curse for us , defended . the liberty our adversaries take in changing the sense of words . the particles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being joyned to sins and relating to sufferings do imply those sufferings to be a punishment for sin . according to their way of interpreting scripture , it had been impossible for our doctrine to be clearly expressed therein . these things being thus far cleared concerning the nature and ends of punishments , and how far they are of the nature of debts , and consequently what kind of satisfaction is due for them , the resolution of the grand question concerning the sufferings of christ will appear much more easie ; but that we may proceed with all possible clearness in a debate of this consequence , we must yet a little more narrowly examine the difference between our adversaries and us in this matter ; for their concessions are in te●ms sometimes so fair , as though the difference were meerly about words without any considerable difference in the thing it self . if we charge them with denying satisfaction , crellius answers in the name of them , that we do it unjustly ; for they do acknowledge a satisfaction worthy of god , and agreeable to the scriptures . if we charge them with denying that our salvation is obtained by the death of christ , they assert the contrary , as appears by the same author . nay , ruarus attributes merit to the death of christ too . they acknowledge , that christ dyed for us , nay , that there was a commutation between christ and us , both of one person for another , and of a price for a person ; and that the death of christ may be said to move god to redeem us ; they acknowledge reconciliation , and expiation of sins to be by the death of christ. nay , they assert , that christs death was by reason of our sins , and that god designed by that to shew his severity against sin . and what could we desire more , if they meant the same thing by these words , which we do ? they assert a satisfaction , but it is such a one as is meerly fulfilling the desire of another ; in which sense all that obey god may be said to satisfie him . they attribute our salvation to the death of christ , but only as a condition intervening , upon the performance of which the covenant was confirmed and himself taken into glory , that he might free men from the punishment of their sins . they attribute merit to christs death but in the same sense that we may merit too , when we do what is pleasing to god. they acknowledge , that christ died for us , but not in our stead , but for our advantage ; that there was a commutation ; but not such a one , as that the son of god did lay down his blood as a proper price in order to our redemption as the purchase of it ; when they speak of a moving cause , they tell us , they mean no more than the performance of any condition may be said to move , or as our prayers and repentance do . the reconciliation they speak of , doth not at all respect god but us ; they assert an expiation of sins consequent upon the death of christ , but not depending upon it any otherwise , than as a condition necessary for his admission to the office of a high priest in heaven , there to expiate our sins by his power , and not by his blood ; but they utterly deny , that the death of christ is to be considered as a pròper expiatory sacrifice for sin ; or that it hath any further influence upon it , than as it is considered as a means of the confirmation of the truth of his doctrine , and particularly the promise of remission of sins , on which , and not on the death of christ they say our remission depends ; but so far as the death of christ may be an argument to us to believe his doctrine , and that faith may incline us to obedience , and that obedience being the condition in order to pardon , at so many removes they make the death of christ to have influence on the remission of our sins . they assert that god took occasion by the sins of men to ex ercise an act of dominion upon christ in his sufferings , and that the sufferings of christ were intended for the taking away the sins of men ; but they utterly deny , that the sufferings of christ were to be considered as a punishment for sin , or that christ did suffer in our place and stead ; nay , they contend with great vehemency , that it is wholly inconsistent with the justice of god to make one mans sins the meritorious cause of anothers punishment ; especially one wholly innocent , and so that the guilty shall be freed on the account of his sufferings . thus i have endeavoured to give the true state of the controversie with all clearness and brevity . and the substance of it will be reduced to these two debates . . whether the sufferings of christ in general are to be considered as a punishment of sin , or as a meer act of dominion ? . whether the death of christ in particular were a proper expiatory sacrifice for sin , or only an antecedent condition to his exercise of the office of priesthood in heaven ? . whether the sufferings of christ in general are to be considered as a punishment of sin , or as a meer act of dominion ? for that it must be one or the other of these two , cannot be denyed by our adversaries ; for the inflicting those sufferings upon christ , must either proceed from an antecedent meritorious cause , or not . if they do , they are then punishments ; if not , they are meer exercises of power and dominion ; whatever ends they are intended for , and whatever recompence be made for them . so crellius asserts , that god as absolute lord of all , had a right of absolute dominion upon the life and body of christ , and therefore might justly deliver him up to death , and give his body to the cross ; and although christ by the ordinary force of the law of moses , had a right to escape so painful and accursed death , yet god by the right of dominion had the power of disposal of him , because he intended to compensate his torments with a reward infinitely greater than they were : but because he saith , for great ends the consent of christ was necessary , therefore god did not use his utmost dominion in delivering him up by force as he might have done , but he dealt with him by way of command , and rewards proposed for obedience , and in this sence he did act as a righteous governor , and indulgent father , who encouraged his son to undergo hard , but great things . in which we see , that he makes the sufferings of christ an act of meer dominion in god , without any antecedent cause as the reason of them ; only he qualifies this act of dominion with the proposal of a reward for it . but we must yet further enquire into their meaning , for though here crellius attributes the sufferings of christ meerly to gods dominion , without any respect to sin , yet elsewhere he will allow a respect that was had to sin antecedently to the sufferings of christ , and that the sins of men were the impulsive cause of them . and although socinus in one place utterly denies any lawful-antecedent cause of the death of christ , besides the will of god and christ , yet crellius in his vindication saith , by lawful cause , he meant meritorius , or such upon supposition of which he ought to dye ; for elsewhere he makes christ to dye for the cause , or by the occasion of our sins ; which is the same that crellius means by an impulsive , or procatartick cause . which he thus explains , we are now to suppose a decree of god not only to give salvation to mankind , but to give us a firm hope of it in this present state , now our sins by deserving eternal punishment , do hinder the effect of that decree upon us , and therefore they were an impulsive cause of the death of christ , by which it was effected , that this decree should obtain notwithstanding our sins . but we are not to understand as though this were done by any expiation of the guilt of sin by the death of christ ; but this effect is hindred by three things , by taking away their sins , by assuring men that their former sins , and present infirmities upon their sincere obedience shall not be imputed to them , and that the effect of that decree shall obtain , all which , saith he , is effected morte christi interveniente , the death of christ intervening , but not as the procuring cause . so that after all these words he means no more by making our sins an impulsive cause of the death of christ , but that the death of christ was an argument to confirm to us the truth of his doctrine , which doctrine of his doth give us assurance of these things : and that our sins when they are said to be the impulsive cause , are not to be considered with a respect to their guilt , but to that distrust of god which our sins do raise in us ; which distrust is in truth according to this sense of crellius the impulsive cause , and not the sins which were the cause or occasion of it . for that was it which the doctrine was designed to remove , and our sins only as the causes of that . but if it be said , that he speaks not only of the distrust , but of the punishment of sin as an impediment which must be removed too , and therefore may be called an impulsive cause , we are to consider that the removal of this is not attributed to the death of christ , but to the leaving of our sins by the belief of his doctrine ; therefore the punishment of our sins cannot unless in a very remote sense be said to be an impulsive cause of that , which for all that we can observe by crellius , might as well have been done without it ; if any other way could be thought sufficient to confirm his doctrine , and christ , without dying , might have had power to save all them that obey him . but we understand not an impulsive cause in so remote a sense , as though our sins were a meer occasion of christs dying , because the death of christ was one argument among many others to believe his doctrine , the belief of which would make men leave their sins ; but we contend for a neerer and more proper sense , viz. that the death of christ was primarily intended for the expiation of our sins , with a respect to god and not to us , and therefore our sins as an impulsive cause are to be considered as they are so displeasing to god ; that it was necessary for the vindication of gods honour , and the deterring the world from sin , that no less a sacrifice of attonement should be offered , than the blood of the son of god. so that we understand an impulsive cause here in the sense , that the sins of the people were , under the law , the cause of the offering up those sacrifices , which were appointed for the expiation of them . and as in those sacrifices there were two things to be considered , viz. the mactation , and the oblation of them , the former as a punishment by a substitution of them in place of the persons who had offended ; the latter as the proper sacrifice of attonement , although the mactation it self , considered with the design of it , was a sacrificial act too : so we consider the sufferings of christ with a twofold respect , either as to our sins , as the impulsive cause of them , so they are to be considered as a punishment , or as to god , with a design to expiate the guilt of them , so they are a sacrifice of attonement . the first consideration is , that we are now upon , and upon which the present debate depends , for if the sufferings of christ be to be taken under the notion of punishment , then our adversaries grant , that our sins must be an impulsive cause of them in another sense than they understand it . for the clearing of this , i shall prove these two things . . that no other sense ought to be admitted of the places of scripture which speak of the sufferings of christ with a respect to sin , but this . . that this account of the sufferings of christ , is no ways repugnant to the iustice of god. that no other sense ought to be admitted of the places of scripture , which speak of the sufferings of christ with a respect to our sins , but that they are to be considered as a punishment for them . such are those which speak of christ hearing our sins , of our iniquities being laid upon him , of his making himself an offering for sin , and being made sin and a curse for us , and of his dying sor our sins . all which i shall so far consider , as to vindicate them from all the exceptions which socinus and crellius have offered against them . . those which speak of christs bearing our sins . as to which we shall consider , first , the importance of the phrase in general of bearing sin , and then the circumstances of the particular places in dispute . for the importance of the phrase , socinus acknowledges , that it generally signifies bearing the punishment of sin in scripture : but that sometimes it signifies taking away . the same is confessed by crellius , but he saith , it doth not always signifie bearing proper punishment , but it is enough ( he says ) that one bears something burdensome on the occasion of others sins : and so christ by undergoing his sufferings by occasion of sins , may be said to bear our sins . and for this sense he quotes numb . . . and your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years , and bear your whoredoms , untill your carcasses be wasted in the wilderness . whereby , saith he , it is not meant that god would punish the children of the israelites , but that by the occasion of their parents sins , they should undergo that trouble , in wandering in the wilderness , and being deprived of the possession of the promised land. but could crellius think that any thing else could have been imagined , ( setting aside a total destruction ) a greater instance of gods severity , than that was to the children of israel all their circumstances being considered ? is it not said , that god did swear in his wrath , they should not enter into his rest ? surely then the debarring them so long of that rest , was an instance of gods wrath , and so according to his own principles must have something of vindicta in it , and therefore be a proper punishment . the truth is , our adversaries allow themselves in speaking things most repugnant to humane nature in this matter of punishments , that they may justifie their own hypothesis . for a whole nation to be for forty years debarred from the greatest blessings were ever promised them ; and instead of enjoying them , to endure the miseries and hardships of forty years travels in a barren wilderness , must not be thought a punishment , and only because occasioned by their parents sins . but whatever is inflicted on the account of sin , and with a design to shew gods severity against it , and thereby to deter others from the practice of it , hath the proper notion of punishment in it ; and all these things did concur in this instance , besides the general sense of mankind in the matter of their punishment , which was such , that supposing them preserved in their liberty , could not have been imagined greater . and therefore vatablus , whom socinus and crellius highly commend , thus renders those words , dabunt poenas pro fornicationibus vestris quibus defecistis a deo vestro : they shall suffer the punishment of your forications . and that bearing the sins of parents doth imply properly bearing the punishment of them , methinks they should not so earnestly deny , who contend that to be the meaning of the words in ezekiel , the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father ; viz. that he shall not bear the punishment of his fathers sins . where in bearing iniquity with a respect to their parents sins , by their own confession , must be taken for the proper punishment ; for otherwise they do not deny , but children , notwithstanding that sentence , may undergo much affliction on the occasion of their parents sins . but socinus further objects , that bearing sins doth not imply the punishment of them , because the scape-goat under the law , is said to bear upon him the iniquities of the people , and yet could not be said to be punished for them . to which grotius answers , that socinus takes it for granted without reason , that the scape-goat could not be said to be punished for the sins of the people ; for punishment in general , may fall upon beasts for the sins of men , gen. . . exod. . . lev. . . gen. . . and socinus hath no cause to say , that the scape-goat was not slain ; for the iewish interpreters do all agree that he was , and however the sending him into the wilderness was intended as a punishment ; and most probably by an unnatural death . to which crellius replies , that in the general , he denies not but punishment may fall upon beasts as well as men ; but ( that he might shew himself true to his principle , that one cannot be punished for anothers faults , ) he falls into a very pleasant discourse , that the beasts are not said to be punished for mens sins , but for their own , and therefore when it is said , before the flood , that all flesh had corrupted his way ; he will by no means have it understood only of men , but that the sins of the beasts at that time , were greater than ordinary , as well as mens . but he hath not told us what they were , whether by eating some forbidden herbs ; or e●…g into conspiracies against mankind their lawful soveraigns , or unlawful mixtures ; and therefore we have yet reason to believe , that when god saith , the ground was cursed for mans sake , that the beasts were punished for mans sin . and if all fl●sh , must comprehend be ●sts in this place , why shall not all flesh seeing the glory of the lord , take in the beasts there too : for v●●ablus parallels this place with the other . but if , saith crellius any shall contend that some beasts at least were innocent , then , he saith , that those though they were destroyed by the flood , yet did not suffer punishment , but only a calamity by occasion of the sins of men . i wonder he did not rather say , that the innocent beasts were taken into the ark , for the propagation of a better kind afterwards . but by this solemn distinction of calamities and punishments , there is nothing so miserable , that either men or beasts can undergo , but when it serves their turn , it shall be only a calamity and no punishment , though it be said to be on purpose to shew gods severity against the sins of the world . and this excellent notion of the beasts being punished for their own sins , is improved by him to the vindication of the scape-goat from being punished ; because then , saith he , the most wicked and corrupt goat should have been made choice of . as though all the design of that great day of expiation had been only to call the children of israel together with great solemnity ; to let them see , how a poor goat must be punished for breaking the laws which we do not know were ever made for them . i had thought our adversaries had maintained that the sacrifices ( on the day of expiation at least ) had represented and typified the sacrifice which was to be offered up by christ ; and so socinus and crellius elsewhere contend : he need not therefore have troubled himself concerning the sins of the goat , when it is expresly said , that the sins of the people were put on the head of the goat ; whatever then the punishment were , it was on the account of the sins of the people , and not his own . but crellius urgeth against grotius , that if the scape-goat had been punished for the expiation of the sins of the people , that should have been particularly expressed in scripture , whereas nothing is said there at all of it , and that the throwing down the scape-goat from the top of the rock , was no part of the primitive institution , but one of the superstitions taken up by the iews in after-times , because of the ominousness of the return of it ; and although we should suppose ( which is not probable ) that it should dye by famine in the wilderness , yet this was not the death for expiation , which was to be by the shedding of blood . to this therefore i answer . . i do not insist on the customs of the later jews to prove from thence any punishment designed by the primitive institution . for i shall easily yield , that many superstitions obtained among them afterwards about the scape-goat ; as the stories of the red list turning white upon the head of it , the booths and the causey made on purpose , and several other things mentioned in the rabbinical writers do manifest . but yet it seems very probable from the text it self , that the scape-goat was not carried into the wilderness at large , but to a steep mountain there . for although we have commonly rendered azazel by the scape-goat , yet according to the best of the jewish writers , as p. fagius tell us , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not come from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a goat , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 abiit ; but is the name of a mountain very steep and rocky near mount sinai , and therefore probably called by the later jews , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the name of a rock : and to this purpose , it is observable that where we render it , and let him go for a scape-goat into the wilderness in the hebrew it is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to send him to azazel in the wilderness : as the joyning the preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth import , and the arabick version where-ever azazel is mentioned , renders it by mount azaz : and the chaldee and syriack to azazel ; so that from hence , a carrying the scape-goat to a certain place may be inferred ; but i see no foundation in the text for the throwing it down from the rock when it was there ; and therefore i cannot think , but that if the punishment intended did lye in that , it would have been expresly mentioned in the solemnities of that day , which had so great an influence on the expiation of the sins of the people . . i answer , that the scape-goat was to denote rather the effect of the expiation , than the manner of obtaining it . for the proper expiation was by the shedding of blood , as the apostle tells us ; and thence the live goat was not to have the sins of the people to bear away into the desert , till the high priest had made an end of reconciling the holy place , and the tabernacle of the congregation , and the altar ; and by the sprinkling of the blood of the other goat which was the sin-offering for the people ; which being done , he was to bring the live goat , and to lay his hands upon the head of it , and confess over it all the iniquities of the children of israel , and all their transgressions in all their sins , putting them upon the head of the goat , and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness ; and so the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited , and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness . so that the former goat noted the way of expiation by the shedding of blood , and the latter the effect of it , viz. that the sins of the people were declared to be expiated by the sending the goat charged with their sins into a desart place ; and that their sins would not appear in the presence of god against them , any more than they expected , that the goat which was sent into the wilderness should return among them . which was the reason that afterwards they took so much care that it should not , by causing it to be thrown off from a steep rock ; which was no sooner done ; but notice was given of it very suddenly by the sounding of horns all over the land. but the force of socinus his argument from the scape goats bearing the sins of the people , that therefore that phrase doth not always imply the bea●ing of punishment , is taken off by crellius himself , who tell us that the scape-goat is not said to bear the sins of the people in the wilderness ; but only that it carried the sins of the people into the wilderness , which is a phrase of another importance from that we are now discoursing of . as will now further appear from the places where it is spoken of concerning our saviour , which we now come particularly to examine . the first place insisted on by grotius with a respect to christ , is pet. . . who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree , which , saith crellius , is so far from proving that christ did bear the punishment of our sins , that it doth not imply any sufferings that he underwent on the occasion of them . he grants that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signifie to carry up , but withall ( he saith ) it signifies to take away ; because that which is taken up , is taken away from the place where it was . besides , he observes , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth answer to the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he hath made to ascend , which is frequently rendred by it in the lxx . and sometimes by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but that hebrew word doth often signifie to take away , where it is rendred in the greek by one of those two words , sam. . . iosh. . . psal. . . ezra . . . to which i answer , . that the signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this place , must not be taken from every sense the word is ever used so , but in that which the words out of which these are taken do imply ; and in isa. . . it doth not answer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a word which by the confession of all is never properly used for taking away , but for bearing of a burden , and is used with a respect to the punishment of sin , lament . . . our fathers have sinned , and are not , and we have born their iniquities , where the same word is used ; so that the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here , must depend upon that in isaiab , of which more afterward . . granting that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth answer sometimes to the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yet it makes nothing to crellius his purpose , unless he can prove that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth ever signifie the taking away a thing by the destruction of it ; for where it answers to that word , it is either for the offering up of a sacrifice , in which sense 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is very frequently used , as is confessed by crellius ; and in that sense it is no prejudice at all to our cause ; for then it must be granted , that christ upon the cross is to be considered as a sacrifice for the sins of men ; and so our sins were laid upon him as they were supposed to be on the sacrifices under the law , in order to the expiation of them , by the shedding their blood ; and if our adversaries would acknowledge this , the difference would not be so great between us ; or else it is used for the removal of a thing from one place to another , the thing it self still remaining in being , as sam. . . and he made sauls bones to ascend , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he took them away , saith crellius ; true , but it is such a taking away , as is a bare removal ; the thing still remaining ; the same is to be said of iosephs bones , iosh. . . which are all the places where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used ; and although 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may be sometimes taken in another sense , as psal. . . yet nothing can be more unreasonable than such a way of arguing as this is ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith crellius signifies taking away ; we demand his proof of it ; is it that the word signifies so much of it self ? no ; that he grants it doth not . is it that it is frequently used in the greek version to render a word that properly doth signifie so ? no ; nor that neither . but how is it then ? crellius tells us , that it sometimes answers to a word that signifies to make to ascend : well , but doth that word signifie taking away ? no ; not constantly , for it is frequently used for a sacrifice : but doth it at any time signifie so ? yes ; it signifies the removal of a thing from one place to another . is that the sense then he contends for here ? no ; but how then ? why 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used to render the same word that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 though it signifies too a bare removal , as ezra . . yet psal. . . it is used for cutting off , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the hebr. is , make me not to ascend in the midst of my days . but doth it here signifie utter destruction ? i suppose not ; but grant it , what is this to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when the lxx . useth not that word here , which for all that we know was purposely altered ; so that at last 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is far enough from any such signification as crellius would fix upon it , unless he will assert , that christs taking away our sins , was only a removal of them from earth to heaven . but here grotius comes in to the relief of crellius against himself ; for in his notes upon this place , though he had before said , that the word was never used in the new testament in that sense , yet he there saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is abstulit , for which he refers us to heb. . . where he proceeds altogether as subtilly as crellius had done before him , for he tells us 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is put for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 numb . . . deut. . . isa. . . but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is put for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , lev. . . num. . . a most excellent way of interpreting scripture ! considering the various significations of the hebrew words , and above all of that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is here mentioned . for according to this way of arguing , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shall signifie the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies all these , and is rendred by them in the greek version , so that by the same way that grotius proves that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we can prove that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not signifie to take away , but to bear punishment ; nay , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies the bearing punishment in the strictest sense , ezek. . , . and bearing sin in that sense , ezek. . . thou hast born thy lewdness , and thy abominations , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so that when 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is more frequently used in this than in the other sense , why shall its signifying 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 at any time make 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be taken in the same sense with that ? nay , i do not remember in any place where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is joyned with sin , but it signifies the punishment of it , so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , lev. . . to bear his iniquity , lev. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , bearing their iniquity in one verse is explained by being out off from among their people , in the next . and in the places cited by grotius , that numb . . . hath been already shewed to signifie bearing the punishment of sin , and that deut. . . is plainly understood of a sacrifice , the other , isa. . . will be afterwards made appear by other places in the same chapter , to signifie nothing to this purpose . so that for all we can yet see , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must be taken either for bearing our sins as a sacrifice did under the law , or the punishment of them ; in either sense it serves our purpose , but is far enough from our adversaries meaning . but supposing we should grant them , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may signifie to take away , let us see what excellent sense they make of these words of st. peter . do they then say , that christ did take away our sins upon the cross ? no , they have a great care of that , for that would make the expiation of sins to have been performed there ; which they utterly deny , and say , that christ only took the cross in his way to his ascension to heaven , that there he might expiate sins . but doth not st. peter say , that what was done by him here , was in his body on the tree : and they will not say , he carryed that with him to heaven too . well , but what then was the taking away of sin which belonged to christ upon the cross ? is it only to perswade men to live vertuously , and leave off their sins ? this socinus would have , and crellius is contented that it should be understood barely of taking away sins , and not of the punishment of them , but only by way of accession and consequence : but if it be taken ( which he inclines more to ) for the punishment , then ( he saith ) it is to be understood not of the vertue and efficacy of the death of christ , but of the effect : and yet a little after he saith , those words of christs bearing our sins , are to be understood of the force and efficacy of christs death to do it , not including the effect of it in us ; not as though christ did deliver us from sins by his death , but that he did that by dying , upon which the taking away of sin would follow , or which had a great power for the doing it . so uncertain are our adversaries , in affixing any sense upon these words , which may attribute any effect at all , to the death of christ upon the cross. for if they be understood of taking away sins , then they are only to be meant of the power that was in the death of christ , to perswade men to leave their sins ; which we must have a care of understanding so , as to attribute any effect to the death of christ in order to it ; but only that the death of christ was an argument for us to believe what he said , and the believing what he said would incline us to obey him , and if we obey him , we shall leave off our sins , whether christ had died or no : supposing his miracles had the same effect on us , which those of moses had upon the iews , which were sufficient to perswade them to believe and obey without his death . but if this be all that was meant by christs bearing our sins in his body on the tree ; why might not st. peter himself be said to bear them upon his cross too ? for his death was an excellent example of patience , and a great argument to perswade men he spake truth , and that doctrine which he preached , was repentance and remission of sins : so that by this sense , there is nothing peculiar attributed to the death of christ but taking the other sense for the taking away the punishment of sins , we must see how this belongs to the death of christ : do they then attribute our delivery from the punishment of sin , to the death of christ on the cross ? yes , just as we may attribute coesars subduing rome , to his passing over rubicon , because he took that in his way to the doing of it : so they make the death of christ only as a passage , in order to expiation of sins , by taking away the punishment of them . for that shall not be actually perfected , they say , till his full deliverance of all those that obey him , from hell and the grave , which will not be till his second coming . so that if we only take the body of christ for his second coming , and the cross of christ , or the tree , for his throne of glory , then they will acknowledge , that christ may very well be said , to take away sins in his own body on the tree : but if you take it in any sense that doth imply any peculiar efficacy to the death of christ , for all the plainness of st. peters words , they by no means will admit of it . but because crellius urgeth grotius with the sense of that place , isa. . . out of which he contends these words are taken , and crellius conceives he can prove there , that bearing is the same with taking away sin : we now come to consider , what force he can find from thence , f●r the justifying his assertion , that the bearing of sins , when attributed to christ , doth not imply the punishment of them , but the taking them away the words are , for he shall bear their iniquities . as to which grotius observes , that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifies iniquity , is sometimes taken for the punishment of sin , kings . . and the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to bear , and when ever it is joyned with sin or iniquity , in all languages , and especially the hebrew , it signifies to suffer punishment ; for although 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may sometimes signifie to take away , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 never does : so that this phrase can receive no other interpretation . notwithstanding all which , crellius attempts to prove , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here , must be taken in a sense contrary to the natural and perpetual use of the word ; for which his first argument is very infirm , viz. because it is mentioned after the death of christ , and is therefore to be considered as the the reward of the other . whereas it appears : . by the prophets discourse , that he doth not insist on an exact methodical order , but dilates and amplifies things as he sees occasion : for verse . he saith , he made his grave with the wicked , and with the rich in his death ; and verse . he saith , yet it pleased the lord to bruise him , he hath put him to grief : will crellius therefore say , that this must be consequent to his death and burial ? . the particle 〈◊〉 may be here taken causally , as we render it , very agreeably to the sense ; and so it gives an account of the fore-going clause , by his knowledge , shall my righteous servant justifie many , for he shall bear their iniquities . and that this is no unusual acception of that particle , might be easily cleared from many places of scripture if it were necessary ; and from this very prophet , as isa. . . where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 king . . and isa. . . thou art wroth , for we have sinned 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where the same particle is made the causal of what went before . but we need not insist upon this to answer crellius , who elsewhere makes use of it himself , and says , they must be very ignorant of the hebrew tongue , who do not know , that the conjunction copulative is often taken causally ; and so much is confessed by socinus also , where he explains , that particle in one sense in the beginning and causally in the middle of the verse : and the lords anger was kindled against israel , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for he moved , &c. but if this will not do , he attempts to prove , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this very chapter , hath the signification of taking away , v. . for he hath born our griefs , and carried our sorrows , which is applied by st. matth. . . to bodily diseases , which our saviour did not bear , but took away , as it is said in the foregoing verse ; he healed all that were sick , on which those words come in , that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by esaias , &c. to which i answer : . it is granted by our adversaries , that st. mathew in those words , doth not give the full sense of the prophet , but only applies that by way of accommodation , to bodily diseases , which was chiefly intended for the sins of men . and in a way of accommodation it is not unusual to strain words beyond their genuine and natural signification , or what was intended primarily by the person who spake them . would it be reasonable for any to say that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies to give , because that place psal. , . where the word by all is acknowledged to signifie to receive , is rendred to give , eph. . . so that admitting another sense of the word here , as applied to the cure of bodily diseases , it doth not from thence follow , that this should be the meaning of the word in the primary sense intended by the prophet . . the word as used by st. matthew , is very capable of the primary and natural sense ; for st. matthew retain words of the same signification , with that which we contend for , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , neither of which doth signifie taking away , by causing a thing not to be . so that all that is implied hereby , is the pains and trouble which our saviour took in the healing of the sick . for to that end , as grotius well observes upon that place , the circumstances are mentioned , that it was at even , and multitudes were brought to him in st. matthew , that after sunset all that were diseased were brought , and all the city was gathered together at the door , in st. mark ; that he departed not till it was day , in st. luke ; that we might the better understand how our saviour did bear our griefs , because the pains he took in healing them were so great . and here i cannot but observe , that grotius in his notes on that place , continued still in the same mind he was in , when he writ against socinus ; for he saith , those words may either refer to the diseases of the body , and so they note the pains he took in the cure of them ; or to our sins , and so they were fulfilled when christ by suffering upon the cross , did obtain remission of sins for us , as st. peter saith , pet. . . but upon what reason the annotations on that place come to be so different from his sense expressed here , long after crellius his answer , i do not understand . but we are sure he declared his mind , as to the main of that controversie , to be the same , that it was when he writ his book which crellius answered ; as appears by two letters of his to vossius , not long since published ; and he utterly disowns the charge of socinianism , as a calumny in his discussion , the last book he ever writ . but we are no further obliged to vindicate grotius , than he did the truth ; which we are sure he did in the vindication of the of isaiah , from socinus his interpretations , notwithstanding what crellius hath objected against him . we therefore proceed to other verses in the same chapter insisted on by grotius , to prove that christ did bear the punishments of our sins , v. , . the lord hath laid on him the iniquities of us all : it is required , and he was afflicted , as grotius renders those words . socinus makes a twofold sense of the former clause ; the first is , that god by or with christ did meet with our iniquities ; the latter , that god did ●ake our iniquities to mee● with christ. the words saith grotius , will not bear the former interpretation , for the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being in hiphil , must import a double action , and so it must not be , that god by him did meet with our sins , but that god did make our sins to meet upon him . to which crellius replies , that words in hiphil are sometimes used intransitively ; but can he produce any instance in scripture , where this word joyned with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is so taken ? for in the last ver●e of the chapter , the construction is different : and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 uncertain way of interpreting scripture will this be , 〈◊〉 every anomalous signification , and rare use of a word , shall be made use of to take away such a sense as is most agreeable to the design of the place . for that sense we contend for , is not only enforced upon the most natural importance of these words , but upon the agreeableness of them with so many other expressions of this chapter , that christ did bear our iniquities , and was wounded for our transgressions , and that his soul was made an offering for sin : to which it is very suitable , that as the iniquities of the people were ( as it were ) laid upon the head of the sacrifice ; so it should be said of christ , who was to offer up himself for the sins of the world . and the iews themselves by this phrase do understand the punishment either for the sins of the people , which iosias underwent , or which the people themselves suffered , by those who interpret this prophesie of them . to which purpose , aben ezra observes , that iniquity is here put for the punishment of it , as sam. . . & lam. . . but socinus mistrusting the incongruity of this interpretation , flies to another ; viz. that god did make our iniquities to meet with christ : and this we are willing to admit of , if by that they mean , that christ underwent the punishment of them ; as that phrase must naturally import , for what otherwise can our iniquities meeting with him signifie ? for the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 taken properly ( as socinus acknowledgeth it ought to be , when he rejects pagnins interpretation of making christ to interceed for our iniquities ) signifies , either to meet with one by chance , or out of kindness , or else for an encounter , with an intention to destroy that which it meets with . so iudg. . . rise thou 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 lxx irrue in nos , fall upon us ; i. e. run upon us with thy sword , and kill us , iudg. . . swear unto me , that ye will not fall upon me your selves ; where the same word is used , and they explain the meaning of it in the next words , v. . we will not kill thee , amos . . as if a man did flee from a lyon , and a bear met him , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. with a design to kill him . now i suppose they will not say that our sins met with christ by chance , since it is said , that god laid on him , &c. nor out of kindness ; it must be there fore out of enmity ; and with a design to destroy him , and so our sins cannot be understood as socinus and crellius would have them , as the meer occasions of christs death : but as the proper impulsive cause of it . whether the following word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be taken with a respect to sin , and so it properly signifies it is required , or with a respect to the person , and so it may signifie he was oppressed , is not a matter of that consequence , which we ought to contend about ; if it be proved that christs oppression had only a respect to sin , as the punishment of it . which will yet further appear from another expression in the same chapter , vers . . the chastisement of our peace was upon him , and by his stripes we are healed . in which grotius saith the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not signifie any kind of affliction , but such as hath the nature of punishment , either for example or instruction ; but since the latter cannot be intended in christ , the former must . crellius thinks to escape from this , by acknowledging , that the sufferings of christ have some respect to sin ; but if it be such a respect to sin , which makes what christ underwent a punishment ( which is only proper in this case ) it is as much as we contend for . this therefore he is loth to abide by ; and saith that chastisement imports no more than bare affliction without any respect to sin , which he thinks to prove from st. pauls words , cor. . . we are chastised , but not given over to death ; but how far this is from proving his purpose will easily appear , . because those by whom they were said to be chastened , did not think they did it without any respect to a fault ; but they supposed them to be justly punished ; and this is that we plead for , that the chastisement considered with a respect to him that inflicts it , doth suppose some fault as the reason of inflicting it . . this is far from the present purpose , for the chastisement there mentioned is oposed to death , as chastened , but not killed ; whereas grotius expresly speaks of such chastisements as include death , that these cannot be supposed to be meerly designed for instruction , and therefore must be conceived under the notion of punishment . the other place psal. . . is yet more remote from the business ; for though the psalmist accounts himself innocent in respect of the great enormities of others ; yet he could not account himself so innocent with a respect to god , as not to deserve chastisement from him . but crellius offers further to prove that christs death must be considered as a bare affliction , and not as a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or exemplary punishment , because in such a punishment the guilty themselves are to be punished , and the benefit comes to those who were not guilty , but in christs sufferings it was quite contrary , for the innocent was punished , and the guilty have the benefit of it : and yet ( he saith ) if we should grant that christs sufferings were a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that will not prove that his death was a proper punishment . to which i answer , that whatever answers to the ends of an exemplary punishment , may properly be called so : but supposing that christ suffered the punishment of our sins , those sufferings will answer to all the ends of an exemplary punishment . for the ends of such a punishment assigned by crellius himself , are , that others observing such a punishment may abstain from those sins which have brought it upon the person who suffers . now the question is , whether supposing christ did suffer on the account of our sins , these sufferings of his may deter us from the practice of sin or no ? and therefore in opposition to crellius , i shall prove these two things : . that supposing christ suffered for our sins , there was a sufficient argument to deter us from the practice of sin . . supposing that his sufferings had no respect to our sins , they could not have that force to deter men from the practice of it : for he after asserts , that christs sufferings might be a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to us , though they were no punishment of sin . . that the death of christ considered as a punishment of sin , is a proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or hath a great force to deter men from the practice of sin : and that because the same reason of punishment is supposed in christ and in our selves , and because the example is much more considerable , than if we had suffered our selves . . the same reason of punishment is supposed . for why are men deterred from sin , by seeing others punished ; but because they look upon the sin as the reason of the punishment ; and therefore where the same reason holds , the same ends may be as properly obtained . if we said that christ suffered death meerly as an innocent person out of gods dominion over his life ; what imaginable force could this have to deter men from sin , which is asserted to have no relation to it as the cause of it ? but when we say , that god laid our iniquities upon him , that he suffered not upon his own account but ours , that the sins we commit against god were the cause of all those bitter agonies which the son of god underwent , what argument can be more proper to deter men from sin than this is ? for hereby they see the great abhorrency of sin which is in god , that he will not pardon the sins of men without a compensation made to his honor , and a demonstration to the world of his hatred of it . hereby they see what a value god hath for his laws , which he will not relax as to the punishment of offenders , without so valuable a consideration as the blood of his own son. hereby they see , that the punishment of sin is no meer arbitrary thing depending barely upon the will of god ; but that there is such a connexion between sin and punishment as to the ends of government , that unless the honor and majesty of god , as to his laws and government may be preserved , the violation of his laws must expect a just recompence of reward . hereby they see what those are to expect who neglect or despise these sufferings of the son of god for them ; for nothing can then remain , but a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries . so that , here all the weighty arguments concur which may be most apt to prevail upon men to deter them from their sins . for if god did thus by the green tree , what will be do by the dry ? if he who was so innocent in himself , so perfectly holy , suffered so much on the account of our sins ; what then may those expect to suffer , who have no innocency at all to plead , and add wilfulness and impenitency to their sins ? but if it be replied by crellius , that it is otherwise among men : i answer , that we do not pretend in all things to parallel the sufferings of christ for us , with any sufferings of men for one another . but yet we add , that even among men the punishments inflicted on those who were themselves innocent as to the cause of them , may be as exemplary as any other . and the greater appearance of severity there is in them , the greater terror they strike into all offenders . as childrens losing their estates and honors , or being banished for their parents treasons in which they had no part themselves . which is a proper punishment on them of their fathers faults , whether they be guilty or no ? and if this may be just in men , why not in god ? if any say , that the parents are only punished in the children , he speaks that which is contradictory to the common sense of mankind ; for punishment doth suppose sense or feeling of it ; and in this case the parents are said to be punished , who are supposed to be dead and past feeling of it , and the children who undergo the smart of it must not be said to be punished ; though all things are so like it , that no person can imagine himself in that condition , but would think himself punished , and severely too . if it be said , that these are calamities indeed , but they are no proper punishments , it may easily be shewed that distinction will not hold here . because these punishments were within the design of the law , and were intended for all the ends of punishments , and therefore must have the nature of them . for therefore the children are involved in the fathers punishment on purpose to deter others from the like actions . there are some things indeed that children may fall into by occasion of their fathers guilt , which may be only calamities to them , because they are necessary consequents in the nature of the thing , and not purposely designed as a punishment to them . thus , being deprived of the comfort and assistance of their parents , when the law hath taken them off by the hand of justice : this was designed by the law as a punishment to the parents , and as to the children it is only a necessary consequent of their punishment . for otherwise the parents would have been punished for the childrens faults , and not the children only involved in that which unavoidably follows upon the parents punishment . so that crellius is very much mistaken either in the present case of our saviours punishment , or in the general reason of exemplary punishments , as among men . but the case of our saviour is more exemplary , when we consider the excellency of his person , though appearing in our nature , when no meaner sufferings would satisfie , than of so transcendent a nature as he underwent , though he were the eternal son of god , this must make the punishment much more exemplary , than if he were considered only as our adversaries do , as a meer man. so that the dignity of his person under all his sufferings may justly add a greater consideration to deter us from the practice of sin , which was so severely punished in him , when he was pleased to be a sacrifice for our sins . from whence we see that the ends of a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are very agreeable with the sufferings of christ considered as a punishment for sin . we now consider whether as crellius asserts , supposing christs death were no punishment , it could have these effects upon mens minds or no ? yes , he saith , it might , because by his sufferings we might see how severely god would punish wicked and obstinate persons . which being a strange riddle at the first hearing it , viz. that by the sufferings of an innocent person without any respect to sin as the cause of them : we should discern gods severity against those who are obstinate in sin ; we ought the more diligently to attend to what is said for the clearing of it . first , saith he , if god spared not his own most innocent and holy and only son , than whom nothing was more dear to him in heaven or earth , but exposed him to so cruel and ignominious a death ; how great and severe sufferings may we think god will inflict on wicked men , who are at open defiance with him ? i confess my self not subtle enough to apprehend the force of this argument , viz. if god dealt so severely with him who had no sin either of his own or others to answer for ; therefore he will deal much more severely with those that have . for gods severity considered without any respect to sin , gives rather encouragement to sinners , than any argument to deter them from it . for the natural consequence of it is , that god doth act arbitrarily , without any regard to the good or evil of mens actions ; and therefore it is to no purpose to be sollicitous about them . for upon the same account that the most innocent person suffers most severely from him , for all that we know , the more we strive to be innocent , the more severely we may be dealt with , and let men sin , they can be but dealt severely with , all the difference then is , one shall be called punishments , and the other calamities , but the severity may be the same in both . and who would leave off his sins meerly to change the name of punishments into that of calamities ? and from hence it will follow , that the differences of good and evil , and the respects of them to punishment and reward , are but aiery and empty things ; but that god really in the dispensation of things to men , hath no regard to what men are or do , but acts therein according to his own dominion , whereby he may dispose of men how or which way he pleases . if a prince had many of his subjects in open rebellion against him , and he should at that time make his most obedient and beloved , son to be publickly exposed to all manner of indignities , and be dishonoured and put to death by the hands of those rebels ; could any one imagine that this was designed as an exemplary punishment to all rebels , to let them see the danger of rebellion ? no , but would it not rather make them think him a cruel prince , one that would punish innocency as much as rebellion ; and that it was rather better to stand at defiance , and become desperate , for it was more dangerous to be beloved than hated by him , to be his son than his declared enemy ? so that insisting on the death of christ as it is considered as a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( for of that we speak now ) there is no comparison between our adversaries hypothesis and ours ; but , saith crellius , the consequence is not good on our side , if christ suffered the punishment of our sins , therefore they shall suffer much more who continue in sin , for christ suffered for the sins of the whole world ; but they suffer only for their own , and what they have deserved themselves . to which i answer , that the argument is of very good force upon our hypothesis , though it would not be upon theirs . for if we suppose him to be a meer man that suffered , then there could be no argument drawn from his sufferings to ours , but according to the exact proportion of sins and punishments : but supposing that he had a divine as well as humane nature , there may not be so great a proportion of the sins of the world to the sufferings of christ , as of the sins of a particular person to his own sufferings ; and therefore the argument from one to the other doth still hold . for the measure of punishments must be taken with a proportion to the dignity of the person who suffers them . and crellius himself confesseth elsewhere , that the dignity of the person is to be considered in exemplary punishment , and that a lesser punishment of one that is very great , may do much more to deter men from sin , than a greater punishment of one much less . but he yet further urgeth , that the severity of god against sinners may be discovered in the sufferings of christ , because gods hatredagainst sin is discovered therein . but if we ask how gods hatred against sin , is seen in the sufferings of one perfectly innocent and free from sin , and not rather his hatred of innocency , if no respect to sin were had therein ? he answers , that gods hatred against sin was manifested , in that he would not spare his only son to draw men off from sin . for answer to which , we are to consider the sufferings of christ as an innocent person , designed as an exemplary cause to draw men off from sin ; and let any one tell me , what hatred of sin can possibly be discovered , in proposing the sufferings of a most innocent person to them without any consideration of sin as the cause of those sufferings ? if it be said , that the doctrine of christ was designed to draw men off from sin ; and that god suffered his son to dye to confirm this doctrine , and thereby shewed his hatred to sin . i answer , . this is carrying the dispute off from the present business , for we are not now arguing about the design of christs doctrine , nor the death of christ as a means to confirm that , but as a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and what power that hath without respect to our sins as the cause of them , to draw us from sin , by discovering gods hatred to it . . the doctrine of christ according to their hypothesis , discovers much less of gods hatred to sin than ours doth . for if god may pardon sin without any compensation made to his laws or honour , if repentance be in its own nature a sufficient satisfaction for all the sins past of our lives ; if there be no such thing as such a justice in god which requires punishment of sin committed ; if the punishment of sin depend barely upon gods will ; and the most innocent person may suffer as much from god without respect to sin as the cause of suffering , as the most guilty ; let any rational man judge whether this doctrine discovers as much gods abhorrency of sin , as asserting the necessity of vindicating gods honour to the world , upon the breach of his laws , if not by the suffering of the offenders themselves , yet of the son of god as a sacrifice for the expiation of sin , by undergoing the punishment of our iniquities , so as upon consideration of his sufferings , he is pleased to accept of repentance and sincere obedience , as the conditions upon which he will grant remission of sins ; and eternal life . so that if the discovery of gods hatred to sin be the means to reclaim men from it , we assert upon the former reasons , that much more is done upon our doctrine concerning the sufferings of christ , than can be upon theirs . so much shall suffice to manifest in what sense christs death may be a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and that this doth imply , that his sufferings are to be considered as a punishment of sin . the next series of places which makes christs sufferings to be a punishment for sin , are those which assert christ to be made sin and a curse for us : which we now design to make clear , ought to be understood in no other sense ; for as grotius saith , as the jews sometimes use sin , for the punishment of sin ; as appears , besides other places , by zach. . . gen. . . so they call him that suffers the punishment of sin , by the name of sin ; as the latins use the word piaculum , both for the fault , and for him that suffers for it . thence under the law , an expiatory sacrifice for sin , was called sin , levit. . , — . . psal. . . which way of speaking esaias followed , speaking of christ , esai . . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he made his soul sin , i. e. liable to the punishment of it . to the same purpose st. paul , cor. . . he made him to be sin for us , who knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him . to which crellius replies , `` that as there is no necessity , that by the name of sin , when applied to sufferings , any more should be implied , than that those sufferings were occasioned by sin , no more is there when it is applied to the person ; nay , much less , for he saith , `` no more is required to this , but that he should be handled as sinners use to be , and undergo the matter of punishment , without any respect to sin , either as the cause or occasion of it . so he saith , the name sinner is used , king. . . and in st. paul , the name of sin in the first clause is to be understood , as of righteousness in the latter ; and as we are said to be righteousness in him , when god deals with us as with righteous persons , so christ was said to be sin for us , when he was dealt with as a sinner . and the sacrifices for sin under the law were so called , not with a respect to the punishment of sin , but because they were offered upon the account of sin , and were used for taking away the guilt of it , or because men were bound to offer them , so that they sinned if they neglected it . so that all that is meant by esaias and st. paul is , that christ was made an expiatory sacrifice , or that he exposed himself for those afflictions which sinners only by right undergo . but let crellius or any others of them tell me , if the scripture had intended to express , that the sufferings of christ were a punishment of our sins , how was it possible to do it more emphatically than it is done by these expressions ( the custom of the hebrew language being considered ) not only by saying , that christ did bear our sins , but , that himself was made sin for us ? those phrases being so commonly used for the punishment of sin . let them produce any one instance in scripture , where those expressions are applied to any without the consideration of sin ? that place king. . . is very far from it ; for in all probability , the design of bathsheba in making solomon king was already discovered , which was the reason that adonijah his elder brother declaring himself king , invited not him with the rest of the kings sons : all that she had for solomons succession , was a secret promise and oath of david ; and therefore she urgeth him now to declare the succession , v. . otherwise , she saith , when david should dye , i and my son solomon shall be accounted offenders ; i. e. saith crellius , we shall be handled as offenders , we shall be destroyed : but surely not without the supposition of a fault ; by them which should inflict that punishment upon them : the plain meaning is , they should be accused of treason , and then punished accordingly . but we are to consider , that still with a respect to them , who were the inflicters , a fault or sin is supposed as the reason of their punishment , either of their own or others . but of our saviour it is not said , that he should be counted as an offender by the iews ; for although that doth not take away his innocency , yet it supposeth an accusation of something , which in it self deserves punishment . but in esai . . . it is said , he made his soul sin ; and cor. . . that god made him sin for us , which must therefore imply , not being dealt with by men only as a sinner , but that with a respect to him who inflicted the punishment , there was a consideration of sin as the reason of it . we do not deny but gods suffering him to be dealt with as a sinner by men , is implied in it , for that was the method of his punishment designed ; but we say further , that the reason of that permission in god , doth suppose some antecedent cause of it : for god would never have suffered his only son , to be so dealt with by the hands of cruel men , unless he had made himself an offering for sin ; being willing to undergo those sufferings , that he might be an expiatory sacrifice for the sins of the world . and although socinus will not yield , that by being made sin for us should be understood christs being an expiatory sacrifice for sin ; yet crellius is contented it should be so taken in both places : which if he will grant , so as by vertue of that sacrifice , the guilt of sin is expiated , we shall not contend with him about the reasons , why those sacrifices were called sins , although the most proper and genuine must needs be that , which is assigned by the law , that the sins of the people were supposed to be laid upon them , and therefore they were intended for the expiation of them : but it is very unreasonable to say ; that expiatory sacrifices were called sins , because it would have been a sin to neglect them : for on the same account , all the other sacrifices must have been called so too ; for it was a sin to neglect any where god required them , and so there had been no difference between sacrifices for sin and others . to that reason of crellius , from our being made righteous , because dealt with as such , to christs being made sin only , because dealt with as a sinner , we need no more than what this parallel will afford us ; for as crellius would never say , that any are dealt with as righteous persons , who are not antecedently supposed to be so ; so by his own argument , christ being dealt with as a sinner , must suppose guilt antecedent to it ; and since the apostle declares it was not his own , in those words , who knew no sin , it follows that it must be the consideration of ours , which must make him be dealt with as a sinner by him , who made him to be sin for us . but to suppose that christ should be said to be made sin , without any respect to sin , is as much as if the latins should call any one scelus , and mean thereby a very honest man ; or a piaculum , without any supposition of his own or others guilt . but we are to consider , that the sufferings of christ , seeming at first so inconsistent with that relation to god as his only son , which the apostles assert concerning him , they were obliged to vindicate his innocency as to men , and yet withal to shew , that with a respect to god , there was sufficient reason for his permission of his undergoing these sufferings . that he knew no sin , was enough to clear his innocency as to men ; but then the question will be asked , if he were so innocent , why did god suffer all those things to come upon him ? did not abraham plead of old with god , that he would not slay the righteous with the wicked , because it was repugnant to the righteousness of his nature to do so ; that be far from thee to do after this manner , to slay the righteous with the wicked , and that the righteous should be as the wicked , that be far from thee ; shall not the iudge of all the earth do right ? how then comes god to suffer the most perfect innocency to be dealt with so , as the greatest sins could not have deserved worse from men ? was not his righteousness the same still ? and abraham did not think the distinction of calamities and punishments , enough to vindicate gods proceedings , if the righteous should have been dealt withall as the wicked . and if that would hold for such a measure of righteousness as might be supposed in such who were not guilty of the great abominations of those places , that it should be enough , not only to deliver themselves , but the wicked too ; how comes it that the most perfect obedience of the son of god , is not sufficient to excuse him from the greatest sufferings of malefactors ? but if his sufferings had been meerly from men , god had been accountable only for the bare permission ; but it is said , that he fore-ordained and determined these things to be , that christ himself complained , that god had forsaken him ; and here , that he made him sin for us : and can we imagine all this to be without any respect to the guilt of sin , as the cause of it ? why should such an expression be used of being made sin ? might not many others have served sufficiently to declare the indignities and sufferings he underwent , without such a phrase as seems to reflect upon christs innocency ? if there had been no more in these expressions than our adversaries imagine , the apostles were so careful of christs honour , they would have avoided such ill-sounding expressions as these were ; and not have affected hebraisms , and uncouth forms of speech , to the disparagement of their religion . but this is all which our adversaries have to say , where words are used by them out of their proper sense , that the prophets and apostles affected tricks of wit , playing with words , using them sometimes in one sense , and presently quite in another . so crellius saith of esaiah , that he affects little elegancies of words and verbal allusions , which makes him use words sometimes out of their proper and natural sense ; thence he tells us , the sufferings of christ are called chastisements , though they have nothing of the nature of chastisements in them : and from this liberty of interpreting , they make words ( without any other reason , than that they serve for their purpose ) be taken in several senses in the same verse : for socinus in one verse of st. iohns gospel , makes the world be taken in three several senses : he was in the world , there it is taken , saith he , for the men of the world in general : the world was made by him , there it must be understood only of the reformation of things by the gospel : and , the world knew him not , there it must be taken in neither of the former senses , but for the wicked of the world : what may not one make of the scripture , by such a way of interpreting it ? but by this we have the less reason to wonder , that socinus should put such an interpretation upon gal. . . christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law , being made a curse for us ; for it is written , cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree : in which he doth acknowledge by the curse , in the first clause to be meant , the punishment of sin , but not in the second : and the reason he gives for it is , amavit enim paulus in execrationis verbo argutus esse . st. paul affected playing with the word curse , understanding it first in a proper , and then a metaphorical sense . but it is plain , that the design of s. paul and socinus are very different in these words : socinus thinks he speaks only metaphorically , when he saith , that christ was made a curse for us ; i. e. by a bare allusion of the name , without a correspondency in the thing it self ; and so that the death of christ might be called a curse , but was not so : but st. paul speaks of this not by way of extenuation , but to set forth the greatness and weight of the punishment he underwent for us . he therefore tells us , what it was which christ did redeem us from , the curse of the law ; and how he did it , by being not only made a curse , but a curse for us ; i. e. not by being hateful to god , or undergoing the very same curse , which we should have done ; which are the two things objected by crellius against our sense ; but that the death of christ was to be considered , not as a bare separation of soul and body , but as properly poenal , being such a kind of death , which none but malefactors by the law were to suffer ; by the undergoing of which punishment in our stead , he redeemed us from that curse which we were liable to by the violation of the law of god. and there can be no reason to appropriate this only to the iews , unless the death of christ did extend only to the deliverance of them from the punishment of their sins ; or because the curse of the law did make that death poenal , therefore the intention of the punishment , could reach no further than the law did ; but the apostle in the very next words speaks of the farther extension of the great blessing promised to abraham , that it should come upon the gentils also ; and withall those whom the apostle speaks to , were not iews , but such as thought they ought to joyn the law and gospel together : that st. paul doth not mean as crellius would have it , that christ by his death did confirm the new covenant , and so take away the obligation of the law ; ( for to what end was the curse mentioned for that ? what did the accursedness of his death add to the confirmation of the truth of his doctrine ? and when was ever the curse taken for the continuance of the law of moses ? ) but that christ by the efficacy of his death as a punishment for sin hath redeemed all that believe and obey him from the curse deserved by their sins , whether inforced by the law of moses , or the law written in their hearts , which tells the consciences of sinners , that such who violate the laws of god are worthy of death , and therefore under the curse of the law. we come now to the force of the particles which being joyned with our sins as referring to the death of christ , do imply that his death is to be considered as a punishment of sin . not that we insist on the force of those particles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as though of themselves they did imply this ( for we know they are of various significations according to the nature of the matter they are joyned with ) but that these being joyned with sins and sufferings together , do signifie that those sufferings are the punishment of those sins . thus it is said of christ , that he dyed , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for our sins , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that he suffered once 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that he gave himself , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that he offered a sacrifice 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . to which crellius replies , that if the force of these particles not being joyned with sufferings , may be taken for the final and not for the impulsive cause , they may retain the same sense when joyned with sufferings , if those sufferings may be designed in order to an end ; but if it should be granted , that those phrases being joyned with sufferings , do always imply a meritorious cause , yet it doth not follow , it should be here so understood because the matter will not bear it . to this a short answer will at present serve : for , it is not possible a meritorious cause can be expressed more emphatically than by these words being joyned to sufferings : so that we have as clear a testimony from these expressions as words can give ; and by the same arts by which these may be avoided any other might ; so that it had not been possible for our doctrine to have been expressed in such a manner , but such kind of answers might have been given as our adversaries now give . if it had been said in the plainest terms , that christs death was a punishment for our sins , they would as easily have avoided the force of them as they do of these ; they would have told us the apostles delighted in an antanaclasis , and had expressed things different from the natural use of the words by them ; and though punishment were sometimes used properly , yet here it must be used only metaphorically because the matter would bear no other sense . and therefore i commend the ingenuity of socinus after all the pains he had taken to enervate the force of those places which are brought against his doctrine ; he tells us plainly , that if our doctrine were not only once , but frequently mentioned in scripture ; yet he would not therefore believe the thing to be so as we suppose . for , saith he , seeing the thing it self cannot be , i take the least inconvenient interpretation of the words ; and draw forth such a sense from them , as is most consistent with it self and the tenor of the scripture . but for all his talking of the tenor of the scripture , by the same reason he interprets one place upon these terms , he will do many , and so the tenor of the scripture shall be never against him : and by this we find , that the main strength of our adversaries is not pretended to lye in the scriptures ; all the care they have of them is only to reconcile them if possible with their hypothesis ; for they do not deny but that the natural force of the words doth imply what we contend for ; but because they say the doctrine we assert is inconsistent with reason , therefore all their design is to find out any other possible meaning which they therefore assert to be true , because more agreeable to the common reason of mankind . this therefore is enough for our present purpose , that if it had been the design of scripture to have expressed our sense , it could not have done it in plainer expressions than it hath done , that no expressions could have been used , but the same arts of our adversaries might have been used to take off their force , which they have used to those we now urge against them , and that setting aside the possibility of the thing , the scripture doth very fairly deliver the doctrine we contend for ; or , supposing in point of reason there may be arguments enough to make it appear possible , there are scriptures enough to make it appear true . chap. iii. the words of scripture being at last acknowledged by our adversaries to make for us , the only pretence remaining is that our doctrine is repugnant to reason . the debate managed upon point of reason . the grand difficulty enquired into , and manifested by our adversaries concessions , not to lie in the greatness of christs sufferings , or that our sins were the impulsive cause of them , or that it is impossible that one should be punished for anothers faults : or in all cases unjust : the cases wherein crellius allows it , instanced . from whence it is proved that he yields the main cause . the arguments propounded whereby he attempts to prove it unjust for christ to be punished for our sins . crellius his principles of the justice of punishments examined . of the relation between desert and punishment . that a person by his own consent may be punished beyond the desert of his own actions . an answer to crellius his objections . what it is to suffer undeservedly . crellius his mistake in the state of the question . the instances of scripture considered . in what sense children are punished for their parents sins . ezec. . . explained at large . whether the guilty being freed from the sufferings of an innocent person makes that punishment unjust or no ? crellius his shifts and evasions in this matter discovered . why among men the offenders are not sreed in criminal matters though the sureties be punished . the release of the party depends on the terms of the sureties suffering , therefore deliverance not ipso facto . no necessity of such a translation in criminal , as is in pecuniary matters . having gained so considerable concessions from our adversaries concerning the places of scripture , we come now to debate the matter in point of reason . and if there appear to be nothing repugnant in the nature of the thing , or to the justice of god , then all their loud clamors will come to nothing ; for on that they fix , when they talk the most of our doctrine being contrary to reason . this therefore we now come more closely to examine , in order to which we must carefully enquire what it is , they lay the charge of injustice in god upon , according to our belief of christs sufferings being a punishment for our sins . . it is not , that the offenders themselves do not undergo the full punishment of their sins . for they assert , that there is no necessity at all that the offenders should be punished from any punitive justice in god : for they eagerly contend that god may freely pardon the sins of men : if so , then it can be no injustice in god not to punish the offenders according to the full desert of their sins . . it is not , that god upon the sufferings of christ doth pardon the sins of men : for they yield that god may do this without any charge of injustice , and with the greatest demonstration of his kindness . for they acknowledge , that the sufferings of christ are not to be considered as a bare antecedent condition to pardon , but that they were a moving cause as far as the obedience of christ in suffering was very acceptable to god. . it is not , in the greatness or matter of the sufferings of christ. for they assert the same which we do . and therefore i cannot but wonder to meet sometimes with those strange out-cries of our making god cruel in the punishing of his son for us : for what do we assert that christ suffered , which they do not assert too ? nay doth it not look much more like cruelty in god to lay those sufferings upon him without any consideration of sin ? as upon their hypothesis he doth ; than to do it supposing he bears the punishment of our iniquities , which is the thing we plead for . they assert all those sufferings to be lawful on the account of gods dominion , which according to them must cease to be so on the supposition of a meritorious cause . but however from this it appears , that it was not unjust that christ should suffer those things which he did for us : the question then is , whether it were unjust that he should suffer the same things , which he might lawfully do on the account of dominion with a respect to our sins as the cause of them . . as to this , they acknowledge , that it is not , that the sufferings of christ were occasioned by our sins , or that our sins were the bare impulsive cause of those sufferings . for they both consess in general , that one mans sins may be the occasion of anothers punishment , so far that he might have escaped punishment , if the others sins had not been the impulsive cause , of it . and therefore crellius in the general state of this question , would not have it , whether it be the unjust to punish one for anothers sins ; for that he acknowledges it is not , but whether , for any cause whatsoever it be just to punish an innocent person ? and likewise in particular of christ , they confess , that our sins were the impulsive cause , and the occasion of his sufferings . . it is not , that there is so necessary a relation , between guilt and punishment , that it cannot be called a punishment which is inflicted on an innocent person . for crellius , after a long dicourse of the difference of afflictions and punishments , doth acknowledge , that it is not of the nature of punishment , that the person who is to be punished , should really deserve the punishment ; and afterwards when grotius urgeth , that though it be essential to punishment , that it be inflicted for sin , yet it is not , that it be inflicted upon him who hath himself sinned , which he shews , by the similitude of rewards , which though necessary to be given in consideration of service , may yet be given to others besides the person himself upon his account . all this crellius acknowledgeth ; who saith , they do not make it necessary to the nature , but to the justice of punishment , that it be inflicted upon none but the person who hath offended . so by his own confession , it is not against the nature of punishment , that one man suffer for anothers faults . from whence it follows , that all socinus his arguments signifie nothing , which are drawn from the impossibility of the thing , that one man should be punished for anothers faults ; for crellius grants the thing to be possible , but denies it to be just ; yet not absolutely neither , but with some restrictions and limitations . for , . it is not , but that there may be sufficient causes assigned in some particular cases ; wherein it may be just for god to punish some for the sins of others . for crellius himself hath assigned divers . when there is such a neer conjunction between them , that one may be said to be punished in the punishment of another : as parents in their children and posterity , kings in their subjects , or the body of a state in its members , either in the most , or the most principal , though the fewest : but we are to consider , how far he doth extend this way of punishment of some in others . . at the greatest distance of time , if they have been of the same nation ; for he extends it to the utmost degree of gods patience towards a people ; for saith he , god doth not presently punish as soon as they have sinned ; but spares for a great while , and forbears , iu expectation of their repentance , in the mean while a great many guilty persons die , and seem to have escaped punishment . but at last the time of gods patience being past , he punisheth their posterity by exacting the fu l punishment of their sins upon them , and by this means punisheth their ancestors t●o , and punisheth their sins in their punishment ; for , saith he , all that people are reckoned for one one man of several ages , and that punishment which is taken of the last , may be for the sins of the first , for the conjunction and succession of them : of which we have an example , saith he , in the destructiof hierusalem . by which we see a very remote conjunction , and a meer similitude in comparing a succession of ages in a people with those in a man , may ( when occasion serves ) be made use of to justifie gods punishing one generation of men for the sins of others that have been long before . . when sins are more secret , or less remarkable , which god might not punish , unless an occasion were given from others sins impelling him to it ; but because god would punish one very near them he therefore punisheth them , that in their punishment he might punish the other . or in case sins spread through a family or a people , or they are committed by divers persons at sundry times , which god dot● 〈◊〉 severally punish , but sometimes then , when the head of a people or family hath done something which remarkably deserves punishment , whom he will punish in those he is related to , and therefore generally punisheth the whole family or people . . that which may be a meer exercise of dominion as to some , may be a proper punishment to others ; as in the case of infants , being taken away for their parents sins ; for god , as to the children , he saith , useth only an act of dominion , but the punishment only redounds to the parents , who lose them ; and though this be done for the very end of punishment , yet he denies , that it hath the nature of punishment in any but the parents . . that punishment may be intended for those who can have no sense at all of it ; as crellius asserts in the case of sauls sons , sam. . , . that the punishment was mainly intended for saul , who was aheady dead . from these concessions of crellius in this case , we may take notice , . that a remote conjunction may be sufficient for a translation of penalty , viz. from one generation to another . . that sins may be truly said to be punished in others , when the offenders themselves may escape punishment , thus the sins of parents in their children , and princes in their subjects . . that an act of dominion in some may be designed as a proper punishment to others . . that the nature of punishment is not to be measured by the sense of it . now upon these concessions , though our adversaries will not grant , that christ was properly punished for our sins , yet they cannot deny but that we may very properly be said to be punished for our sins in christ , and if they will yield us this , the other may be a strife about words . for surely there may be easily imagined as great a conjunction between christ and us , as between the several generations of the iews , and that last which was punished in the destruction of hierusalem : and though we escape that punishment which christ did undergo , yet we might have our sins punished in him , as well as princes theirs in their subjects , when they escape themselves ; or rather as subjects in an innocent prince , who may suffer for the faults of his people ; if it be said , that these are acts of meer dominion as to such a one , that nothing hinders but granting it , yet our sins may be said to be punished in him ; as well as parents sins are punished properly in meer acts of dominion upon their children ; if it be laid , that can be no punishment where there is no sense at all of it , that is fully taken off by crellius ; for surely we have as great a sense of the sufferings of christ , as the first generation of the iews had of the suffering of the last , before the fatal destruction of the city , or as saul had of the punishment of his sons after his death . so that from crellius his own concessions , we have proved , that our sins may very properly be said to be punished in christ , although he will not say , that christ could be properly punished for our sins ; nay he and the rest of our adversaries not only deny it , but earnestly contend , that it is very unjust to suppose it , and repugnant to the rectitude of gods nature to do it . and so we come to consider the mighty arguments that are insisted on for the proof of this , which may be reduced to these three ; viz. . that there can be no punishment but what is deserved , but no man can deserve that another should be punished . . that punishment flows from revenge , but there can be no revenge where there hath been no fault . . that the punishment of one , cannot any ways be made the punishment of another ; and in case it be supposed possible , then those in whose stead the other is punished , must be actually delivered upon the payment of that debt which was owing to god. . that one man cannot deserve anothers punishment , and therefore one cannot be punished for another ; for there is no just punishment , but what is deserved . this being the main argument insisted on by crellius , must be more carefully considered ; but before an answer be made to it , it is necessary that a clear account be given in what sense it is he understands it , which will be best done , by laying down his principles , as to the justice of punishments , in a more distinct method than himself hath done ; which are these following : . that no person can be justly punished , either for his own or anothers faults , but he that hath deserved to be punished by some sin of his own : for he still asserts , that the justice of punishment ariseth from a mans own fault , though the actual punishment may be from anothers : but he that is punished without respect to his own guilt , is punished undeservedly ; and he that is punished undeservedly , is punished unjustly . . that personal guilt being supposed one mans sin may be the impulsive cause of anothers punishment , but they cannot be the meritorious . the difference between them he thus explains , the cause , is that which makes a thing to be ; the impulsive , that which moves one to do a thing , without any consideration of right that one hath to do it : merit , is that which makes a man worthy of a thing , either good or bad , and so gives a right to it ; if it be good , to himself ; if bad , to him at whose hands he hath deserved it . now he tells us , that it is impossible , that one mans sins should make any other deserve punishment , but the person who committed them ; but they may impel one to punish another , and that justly , if the person hath otherwise deserved to be punished , unjustly if he hath not . the reason he gives of it is , that the vitiosity of the act , which is the proper cause of punishment , cannot go beyond the person of the offender ; and therefore can oblige none to punishment , but him that hath committed the fault . and therefore he asserts , that no man can be justly punished beyond the desert of his own sins , but there may sometimes be a double impulsive cause of that punishment ; viz. his own and other mens , whereof one made that they might be justly punished , the other that they should be actually : but the later , he saith , always supposeth the former , as the foundation of just punishment ; so that no part of punishment could be executed upon him , wherein his own sins were not supposed as the meritorious cause of it . these are his two main principles which we must now throughly examine , the main force of his book lying in them . but if we can prove , that it hath been generally received by the consent of mankind , that a person may be punished beyond the desert of his own actions ; if god hath justly punished some for the sins of others , and there be no injustice in one mans suffering by his own consent for another , then these principles of crellius will be found not so firm as he imagines them . . that it hath been generally received by the consent of mankind , that a person may be justly punished beyond the desert of his own actions . for which purpose grotius objected against socinus ( who appealed to the consent of nations , about one being punished for anothers fault ) that the heathens did agree , that children might be punished for their parents saults , and people for their princes , and that corporal punishment might be born by one for another , did appear by the persians punishing the whole family for the fault of one . the macedonians the near kindred in the case of treason , some cities of greece , destroying the children of tyrants together with them ; in all which , the meer conjunction was supposed a sufficient reason without consent ; but in case of consent , he saith , they all agreed in the justice of some being punished for the faults of others . thence the right of killing hostages among the most civilized nations ; and of sureties being punished in capital matters , if the guilty appear not , who were thence called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who were bound to answer body for body . in which cases , the punishment did extend beyond the desert of the person who suffered it ; for no other reason is assigned of these sufferings , besides the conjunction of the person , or his consent ; but no antecedent guilt is supposed as necessary , to make the punishment just . we are now to consider what crellius doth answer to this : . as to their acknowledgements of gods punishing children for their parents faults , he gives the same answer which he doth to the examples recorded in scripture to that purpose , that either they were punished for the sins of others , but their own sins deserved the punishment ; or that the parents were punished in the children , but the children were not properly punished . . as to punishments among men , he answers two things ; . that such persons were truly punished , but not justly : for he acknowledges , that in such a case it is a proper punishment , and that it is enough in order to that , that any fault be charged upon a person , whether his own or anothers , whether true or false , on the account of which he is supposed worthy to be punished : and that such a conjunction is sufficient for cruel , angry , or imprudent men ; for where ever there is a place , saith he , for anger , there is likewise for punishment . so that he consesseth , there may be a true punishment , and that which answers all the reason and ends of punishment assigned by him , where there is no desert at all of it in the person who undergoes it . but then he adds , that this is an unjust punishment , to which i reply , that then the reason of punishment assigned by crellius before is insufficient ; for if this answers all the ends of punishments assigned by him , and yet be unjust , then it necessarily follows , that those ends of punishment are consistent with the greatest injustice . for he before made punishment to have a natural respect to anger , and makes the ordinary end of punishment to be a satisfaction of the desire of revenge in men , yet now grants , that these may be in an unjust punishment . neither can it be said , that he considered punishment only naturally , and not morally ; for he tells us , that this is the nature of divine punishments , which are therefore just , because designed for these ends ; but in case there be no supposal of a fault at all , then he denyes that it is a punishment , but only an asfliction , and an exercise of dominion . so that according to him , where-ever there is a proper punishment , it must be just , when-ever god doth punish men : and the only difference between god and man supposable in this case is , that we have assurance god will never use his dominion unjustly ; but that men do so when they make one to suffer for anothers fault , notwithstanding a consent and conjunction between the man that committed the fault , and the person that suffers for him . but this is begging the thing in question , for we are debating , whether it be an unlawful exercise of power or no ? for we have this presumption , that it is not unlawful , because it may answer all the ends of punishments , and what way can we better judge , whether a punishment be just or no , than by that ? but we are to consider , that we do not here take the person we speak of , abstractly as an innocent person , for then there is no question , but anger and punishment of one as such is unjust ; but of an innocent person as supposed under an obligation by his own consent to suffer for another . and in this case we assert , since according to crellius the natural and proper ends of punishments may be obtained , and the consent of the person takes away the wrong done to him in the matter of his sufferings , so far as he hath power over himself , that such a punishment is not unjust . for if it be , it must suppose some injury to be done ; but in this case let them assign where the injury lies ; it cannot be to the publick , if the ends of punishments may be obtained by such a suffering of one for another , by a valid consent of the suffering party ; it cannot be to the person in whose room the other suffers , for what injury is that to escape punishment by anothers suffering ; it cannot be to the suffering person , supposing that to be true , which the heathens still supposed , viz. that every man had a power over his own life . if it be said still , that the unjustice lies in this ; that such a one suffers undeservedly , and therefore unjustly . i answer , if be meant by undeservedly without sufficient cause or reason of punishment , then we deny that such a one doth suffer undeservedly . immerito in the greek glosses is rendred by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and merito by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and in cicero , jure & merito are most commonly joyned together . so that where there is a right to punish , and sufficient reason for it , such a one doth not suffer immerito , i. e. undeservedly . if it be said , that such a one is not dignus paena , that implies no more than the other , for dignus , or as the ancients writ it dicnus , comes from the greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 jus as vossius tells us , ut dign us sit cui tribui aliquid aequum est : so that where there is an equity in the thing , there is a dignity in the person , or he may be said to be worthy to undergo it . but doth not this lay open the greatest innocency to as great a desert of sufferings , as the highest guilt ? by no means . for we make a lyableness to punishment , the natural consequent of guilt : and he that hath committed a fault , cannot but deserve to be punished , so that no sufferings of others can take away the natural consequence of a bad action , which is a desert of punishment ; so that as we say , a wicked action cannot but deserve to be punished , i. e. there is an agreeableness in reason and nature , that he who hath done ill , should suffer ill ; so we say likewise there is necessity in nature and reason , that he that hath thus deserved it , must unavoidably suffer it . and on the other side , we say , no man by his innocency can deserve to be punished , i. e. no mans innocency makes him by vertue of that obnoxious to punishment ; but yet we add , that notwithstanding his innocency , the circumstances may be such that he may be justly punished , and in that sense deservedly . so that the question is strangely mistaken , when it is thus put , whether an innocent person considered as such , may be justly punished ; for no one asserts that , or is bound to do it ; but the true question is , whether a person notwith standing his innocency may not by some act of his own will oblige himself to undergo that punishment which otherwise he did not deserve ? which punishment , in that case is just and agreeable to reason : and this is that which we assert and plead for . so that innocency here is not considered any other ways , than whether that alone makes it an unlawful punishment , which otherwise would be lawful , i. e. whether the magistrate in such cases , where substitution is admittable by the laws of nations ( as in the cases we are now upon ) be bound to regard any more than that the obligation to punishment now lies upon the person , who by his own act hath substituted himself in the others room ; and if he proceeds upon this , his action is justifyable and agreeable to reason . if it be said , that the substitution is unjust , unless the substituted person hath before hand deserved to be punished ; it is easily answered , that this makes not the matter at all clearer ; for either the person is punished for the former fault , and then there is no substitution ; or if he be punished by way of substitution ; then there is no regard at all had to his former fault , and so it is all one as if he were perfectly innocent . and by this crellius his answer to the instances both in scripture and elsewhere concerning childrens being punished for their parents faults , will appear to be insufficient , viz. that god doth never punish them for their parents faults beyond the desert of their own sins , and therefore no argument can be drawn from thence , that god may punish an innocent person for the sins of others , because he hath punished some for what they were innocent : for the force of the argument doth not lye in the supposition of their innocency , as to the ground of punishment in general , for we do not deny , but that they may deserve to be punished for their own faults : but the argument lies in this , whether their own guilt were then considered as the reason of punishment , when god did punish them for their fathers faults ? and whether they by their own sins did deserve to be punished not only with the punishment due to their own miscarriages , but with the punishment due to their fathers too ? if not , then some persons are justly punished , who have not deserved that punishment they undergo ; if they did deserve it , then one person may deserve to be punished for anothers sins . if it be said , as it is by crellius , that his own sins make him capable of punishment , and god by occasion of others sins doth execute that punishment , which he might not have done for his own . i answer , we are not enquiring into the bare capacity of punishing , but into the reason of it : was the reason of punishment his own or his fathers sins ? if his own , then he was punished only for his own sins ; if his fathers , then the punishment may be just which is inflicted without consideration of proper desert of it ; for no man ( say they ) can deserve to be punished , but for his own sins . but it 's said , that the sins of fathers are only an impulsive cause for god to punish the children according to the desert of their own sins , which he might otherwise have forborn to punish . then , the sins of the fathers are no reason why the children should be punished ; but their own sins are the reason , and their fathers the bare occasion of being punished for them . but in scripture , the reason of punishment is drawn from the fathers sins : and not from the childrens : for then the words would have run thus , if the children sin , and deserve punishment by their own iniquities , then , i will take occasion from their fathers sins to visit their own iniquities upon them : whereas the words refer to the fathers sins as the reason of the childrens punishment . so in the words of the law , wherein the reason of punishment ought to be most expresly assigned , it is not , i will certainly punish the children , if they continue in the idolatry of their fathers ; but , i will visit the sins of the fathers upon the children , unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me : if it were only because of imitation of the fathers sins by the children , there could be no reason for the limitation to the third and fourth generation ; for then the reason of punishment would be as long as the imitation continued , whether to the fourth or tenth generation : and as alphonsus à castro observes , if the reason of punishment were the imitation of their fathers sins , then the children were not punished for their fathers sins , but for their own ; for that imitation was a sin of their own , and not of their fathers . besides , if the proper reason of punishment were the sins of the children , and the fathers sins only the occasion of it , then where it is mentioned that children are punished for their parents sins , the childrens sins should have been particularly expressed , as the proper cause of the punishment : but no other reason is assigned in the law , but the sins of the fathers , no other cause mentioned of canaans punishment , but his fathers sin ; nor of the punishment of the people in davids time , but his own sin ; lo , i have sinned , and i have done wickedly , but these sheep , what have they done ? which is no hyperbolical expression , but the assigning the proper cause of that judgement to have been his own sin , as the whole chapter declares : nor , of the hanging up of sauls sons by the gibeonites , but , that saul their father had plotted their destruction . and in an instance more remarkable than any of those which crellius answers ; viz. the punishment of the people of iudah , for the sins of manasses in the time of iosias ; when a through reformation was designed among them , the prince being very good , and all the places of idolatry destroyed , such a passover kept as had not been kept before in the time of any king in israel , yet it then follows , notwithstanding the lord turned not from the fierceness of his great wrath , wherewith his anger was kindled against iudah , because of all the provocations wherewith manasses had provoked him withal . who can say here , that the sins of manasseh were only the occasion of gods punishing the people in the time of iosias for their own sins , when their sins were much less in the time of iosias , than in any time mentioned before , after their lapse into idolatry ? nay , it is expresly said , that iosiah took away all the abominations out of all the countries that pertained to the children of israel , and made all that were present in isreal to serve , even to serve the lord their god. and all his days they departed not from following the lord god of their fathers : to say , that this was done in hypocrisie , and bare outward compliance , is to speak without book ; and if the reason of so severe punishments had been their hypocrisie , that ought to have been mentioned ; but not only here , but afterwards it is said , that the reason of gods destroying iudah , was for the sins of manasseh ; viz. his idolatries and murther , which it is said , the lord will not pardon . and if he would not pardon , then he did punish for those sins , not barely as the occasion , but as the meritorious cause of that punishment . what shall we say then ? did the people in iosiah's time , deserve to be punished for the sins of manasseh , grandfather to iosiah ? or was god so highly provoked with those sins , that although he did not punish manasseh himself upon his repentance , yet he would let the world see , how much he abhorred them , by punishing those sins upon the people afterwards ; although according to the usual proportion of sins punishments , the sins and of the people in that age did not exceed the sins of others ages , as much as the punishments they suffered , did exceed the punishments of other ages : which is necessary according to crellius his doctrine ; for if god never punisheth by occasion of their fathers sins , the children beyond the desert of their own sins ; then it is necessary , that where judgements are remarkably greater , the sins must be so too ; the contrary to which is plain in this instance . by which we see , that it is not contrary to the justice of god in punishing , to make the punishment of some on the account of others sins , to exceed the desert of their own ; measuring that desert , not in a way common to all sin ; but when the desert of some sins is compared with the desert of others : for it is of this latter we speak of , and of the method which god useth in punishing sin here , for the demonstration of his hatred of it , according to which the greatest punishments must suppose the greatest sins , either of their own , or others which they suffer for . but hath not god declared , that he will never punish the children for the fathers sins ? for the soul that sinneth it shall dye ; the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father , &c. to which i answer , these words are to be considered , as an answer to a complaint made by the iews , soon after their going into captivity , which they imputed to gods severity in punishing them for their fathers sins . now the complaint was either true or false ; if it were true , then though this was looked upon as great severity in god , yet it was no injustice in him ; for though god may act severely , he cannot act unjustly : if it was false , then the answer had been an absolute denial of it , as a thing repugnant to the justice of god. which we do not find here , but that god saith unto them , v. . ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in israel : if the thing had been plainly unjust , which they complained of , he would have told them , they never had occasion to use it . but we find the prophets telling them before hand , that they should suffer for their fathers sins , ierem. . , , where he threatens them with destruction and banishment , because of the sins of manasseh in ierusalem ; and in the beginning of the captivity they complain of this , lam. . . our fathers have sinned , and are not , and we have born their iniquities . and ierem. . . god saith by the prophet , that he had watched over them to pluckup , and to pull down , and to destroy , and to afflict : but that he would watch over them to build , and to plant , and in those days they shall say no more , the fathers have eaten sowre grapes , and the childrens teeth are set on edge ; but every one shall dye for his own iniquity . which place is exactly parallel with this in ezekiel , and gives us a clear account of it , which is , that now indeed god had dealt very severely with them , by making them suffer beyond , what in the ordinary course of his providence their sins had deserved ; but he punished them not only for their own sins , but the sins of their fathers : but lest they should think , they should be utterly consumed for their iniquities , and be no longer a people enjoying the land which god had promised them , he tells them by the prophets , though they had smarted so much , by reason of their fathers sins , this severity should not always continue upon them ; but that god would visit them with his kindness again , and would plant them in their own land , then they should see no reason to continue this proverb among them ; for they would then find , though their fathers had eaten sowre grapes , their teeth should not be always set on edge with it . and if we observe it , the occasion of the proverb , was concerning the land of israel , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 super terra israel , as the chaldee paraphrast renders it more agreeable to the hebrew , than the other versions do . so that the land of israel was the occasion of the proverb , by their being banished out of it for their fathers sins : now god tells them , they should have no more occasion to use this proverb concerning the land of israel ; for they , notwithstanding their fathers sins , should return into their own land. and even during the continuance of their captivity , they should not undergo such great severities for the future , but they should find their condition much more tolerable than they imagined ; only , if any were guilty of greater sins than others , they should themselves suffer for their own faults , but he would not punish the whole nation for them , or their own posterity . this i take to be the genuine meaning of this place ; and i the rather embrace it , because i find such insuperable difficulties in other interpretations that are given of it : for to say as our adversaries do , that what god saith , should not be for the future , was repugnant to his nature and justice ever to do , is to charge god plainly with injustice in what he had done : for the prophets told them they should suffer for the sins of their fathers : which sufferings were the ground of their complaint now , and the answer here given must relate to the occasion of the complaint ; for god saith , they should not have occasion to use that proverb : wherein is implied , they should not have the same reason to complain which they had then . i demand then , do not these words imply , that god would not do for the future with them , what he had done before ; if not , the proper answer had been a plain denial , and not a promise for the future he would not ; if they do , then either god properly punished them for the sins of their fathers , and then god must be unjust in doing so ; or it was just with god to do it , and so this place instead of overthrowing will prove , that some may be justly punished , beyond the desert of their own sins : or else , god did only take occasion by their fathers sins , to punish them according to the desert of their own iniquities : but then they had no cause to complain , that they were punished for any more than their own iniquities ; and withal , then god doth oblige himself by his promise here , never to punish men for the future by the occasion of others sins : which is not only contrary to their own doctrine , but to what is plainly seen afterwards in the punishment of the iews for their fathers sins , mentioned by our saviour after this : and if this be a certain rule of equity which god here saith , that he would never vary from , then the punishing of some on the occasion of others sins , would be as unjust , as our adversaries suppose the punishing any beyond the desert of their own sins to be . but is it not implyed , that gods ways would be unequal , if he ever did otherwise than he there said he would do ? no , it is not , if by equal he meant just , for his ways never were , or can be so unequal ; but here if it be taken with a respect to the main dispute of the chapter , no more is implied in them , but that they judged amiss concerning gods actions , and that they were just , when they thought them not to be so : or if at least , they thought his ways very severe , though just , god by remitting of this severity , would shew that he was not only just , but kind ; and so they would find his ways equal , that is , always agreeable to themselves , and ending in kindness to them , though they hitherto were so severe towards them in their banishment and captivity . or if they be taken with a respect to the immediate occasion of them both , ezek. . — . they do not relate to this dispute about childrens suffering for their fathers sins ; but to another , which was concerning a righteous mans sinning and dying in his sins , and a wicked mans repenting , and living in his righteousness ; which were directly contrary to the common opinion of the iews to this day , which is , that god will judge men according to the greatest number of their actions good or bad : as appears by maimonides and others . now they thought it a very hard case , for a man who had been righteous the far greatest part of his time , if he did at last commit iniquity , that his former righteousness should signifie nothing , but he must dye in his iniquity . to this therefore god answers , that it was only the inequality of their own ways , which made them think gods ways in doing so unequal . this then doth not make it unequal , for god either to punish men , upon the occasion , or by the desert of other mens sins , supposing such a conjunction between them , as there is in the same body of people , to those who went before them . and crellius himself grants , that socinus never intended to prove , that one mans suffering for anothers sins was unjust in it self , from this place : no , not though we take it in the strictest sense , for one suffering in the stead of another . having thus far cleared , how far it is agreeable to gods justice , to punish any persons either by reason of his dominion , or the conjunction of persons , for the sins of others , and consequently whether any punishment may be undergone justly beyond the proper desert of their own sins , i now return to the consent of mankind in it , on supposition either of a neer conjunction , or a valid consent which must make up the want of dominion in men without it . and the question still proceeds upon the supposition of those things , that there be a proper dominion in men over that which they part with for others sakes , and that they do it by their free consent ; and then we justifie it not to be repugnant to the principles of reason and justice for any to suffer beyond the desert of their own actions . and crellius his saying , that such a punishment is true punishment , but not just ; is no answer at all to the consent of nations that it is so . and therefore finding this answer insufficient ; he relies upon another , viz. that it was never received by the consent of nations , that one man should suffer in the stead of another , so as the guilty should be freed by the others suffering . for he saith , neither socinus nor he do deny that one man may be punished for anothers sins ; but that which they deny is , that ever the innocent were punished so as the guilty were freed by it , and so he answers , in the case of hostages and sureties , their punishment did never excuse the offenders themselves . and to this purpose he saith , socinus his argument doth hold good , that though one mans money may become anothers , yet one mans sufferings cannot become anothers : for , saith he , if it could , then it would be all one who suffered , as it is who pays the money due : and then the offender must be presently released , as the debtor is upon payment of the debt . this is the substance of what is said by him upon this argument . to which i reply ; . that this gives up the matter in dispute at present between us ; for the present question is , whether it be unjust for any one to suffer beyond the desert of his own actions ? yes saith crellius , it is , in case he suffers so , as that the guilty be freed by his sufferings . but we are not enquiring , whether it be just for another person to be freed for a mans suffering for him ? but whether it be just for that man to suffer by his own consent , more than his own actions , without that consent deserved ? the release of another person by vertue of his sufferings , is a matter of another consideration . doth the freeing or not freeing of another by suffering , add any thing to the desert of suffering ? he that being wholly innocent , and doth suffer on the account of anothers fault , doth he not suffer as undeservedly , though another be not freed , as if he were ? as in the case of hostages or sureties , doth it make them at all the more guilty , because the persons they are concerned for , will be punished notwithstanding , if they come under the power of those who exacted the punishment upon them , who suffered for them ? nay , is not their desert of punishment so much the less , in as much as the guilty are still bound to answer for their own offences ? if we could suppose the guilty to be freed by the others sufferings , it would be by supposing their guilt more fully translated upon those who suffer , and consequently , a greater obligation to punishment following that guilt . from whence it follows , that if it be just to punish , when the person is not delivered from whom the other suffers , it is more just when he is ; for the translation of the penalty is much less in the former case , than in latter ; and what is just upon less grounds of punishment , must be more just upon greater . i look on this therefore but as a shift of crellius , hoping thereby to avoid the consent of mankind in one mans suffering for another , without attending to the main argument he was upon ; viz. the justice of one person suffering for another . . it is a very unreasonable thing , to make an action unjust for that , which of it self is acknowledged by our adversaries to be very just ; viz. the pardoning the offenders themselves . if it were just to suffer , if the other were not pardoned , and it were just to pardon , whether the other were punished or no , how comes this suffering to be unjust , meerly by the others being pardoned by it : nay , is it not rather an argument , that those sufferings are the most just , which do so fully answer all the ends of punishments ; that there is then no necessity that the offender should suffer ; but that the supreme governor having obtained the ends of government , by the suffering of one for the rest , declares himself so well pleased with it , that he is willing to pardon the offenders themselves . . many of those persons who have had their sins punished in others , have themselves escaped the punishment due to the desert of their sins . as is plain in the case of ahab , whose punishment was not so great as his sins deserved , because the full punishment of them was reserved to his posterity . if it be said , as it is by crellius , that ahab was not wholly freed , his life being taken away , for his own sins : that gives no sufficient answer ; for if some part of the punishment was deferred , that part he was delivered from ; and the same reason in this case will hold for the whole as the part . as is plain in the case of manasseh , and several others , the guilt of whose sins were punished on their posterity , themselves escaping it . . our adversaries confess , that in some cases it is lawful and just for some to suffer , with a design that others may be freed by their suffering for them . thus they assert , that one christian , not only may , but ought to lay down his life for another , if there be any danger of his denying the truth , or be judges him far more useful and considerable than himself : so likewise a son for his father , one brother for another , or a friend , or any , whose life he thinks more useful than his own . now i ask , whether a man can be bound to a thing that is in its own nature unjust ? if not , as it is plain he cannot , then such an obligation of one man to suffer for the delivery of another cannot be unjust , and consequently the suffering it self cannot be so . but crellius saith , the injustice in this case lies wholly upon the magistrate who admits it : but i ask wherefore is it unjust in the magistrate to admit it ? is it because the thing is in it self unjust ? if so , there can be no obligation to do it ; and it would be as great a sin to undergo it as in the magistrate to permit it ; but if it be just in it self , we have obtained what we contend for ; viz. that it may be just for a man to suffer beyond the desert of his own actions ; for he that lays down his life for his brethren , doth not deserve by his own actions that very punishment which he undergoes . and if the thing be in it self just , how comes it to be unjust in him that permits it ? . the reason why among men the offenders themselves are punished , is because those were not the terms , upon which the persons suffered . for if they had suffered upon these terms that the other might be freed , and their suffering was admitted of by the magistrate on that consideration , then in all reason and justice the offenders ought to be freed on the account of the others suffering for them . but among men the chief reason of the obligation to punishment of one man for another , is not , that the other might be freed , but that there may be security given to the publick , that the offenders shall be punished : and the reason of the sureties suffering is not to deliver the offender , but to satisfie the law , by declaring that all care is taken that the offender should be punished , when in case of his escape , the surety suffers for him . but it is quite another thing when the person suffers purposely that others might be freed by his suffering , for then in case the suffering be admitted , the release of the other is not only not unjust , but becomes due to him that suffered , on his own terms . not as though it followed ipso facto as crellius fancies , but the manner of release doth depend upon the terms which he who suffered for them , shall make in order to it . for upon this suffering of one for another upon such terms , the immediate consequent of the suffering is not the actual discharge but the right to it which he hath purchased ; and which he may dispense upon what tèrms he shall judge most for his honour . . although one persons sufferings cannot become anothers so as one mans money may ; yet one mans sufferings may be a sufficient consideration on which a benefit may accure to another . for to that end a donation , or such a transferring right from one to another as is in money , is not necessary , but the acceptation which it hath from him who hath the power to pardon . if he declare that he is so well pleased with the sufferings of one for another , that in consideration of them , he will pardon those from whom he suffered ; where lies the impossibility or unreasonableness of the thing ? for crellius grants , that rewards may be given to others than the persons who did the actions in consideration of those actions ; and why may not the sufferings of one for others , being purposely undertaken for this end , be available for the pardon of those whom he suffered for ? for a man can no more transfer the right of his good actions , than of his sufferings . from all which it follows , that one person may by his own consent , and being admitted thereto by him to whom the right of punishing belongs , suffer justly ; though it be beyond the desert of his own actions ; and the guilty may be pardoned on the account of his sufferings . which was the first thing we designed to prove from crellius , in order to the overthrowing his own hypothesis . for it being confessed by him that such sufferings have all that belongs to the nature of punishments , and since god hath justly punished some for the sins which they have not committed ; since all nations have allowed it just for one man by his own consent to suffer for another ; since it cannot be unjust for the offender to be released by anothers sufferings , if he were admitted to suffer for that end , it evidently follows , contrary to crellius his main principle , that a person may be justly punished beyond the desert of his own actions : and so that first argument of crellius cannot hold , that one man cannot by his own consent suffer for another , because no man can deserve anothers punishment , and no punishment is just but what is deserved . his second argument from the nature of anger and revenge hath been already answered in the first discourse about the nature and ends of punishments , and ●…s third argument , that one mans punishment cannot become anothers , immediately before . and so we have finished our first consideration of the sufferings of christ in general , as a punishment of our sins , which we have shewed to be agreeable both to scripture and reason . chap. iv. e death of christ considered as an expiatory sacrifice for sin . what the expiation of sin was by the sacrifices under the law ; twofold , civil and ritual . the promises made to the iews under the law of moses , respected them as a people , and therefore must be temporal . the typical nature of sacrifices asserted . a substitution in the expiatory sacrifices under the law , proved from lev. . . and the concession of crellius about the signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 joyned with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 lev. . . explained . the expiation of uncertain murther proves a substitution . a substitution of christ in our room proved from christ being said to dye for us ; the importance of that phrase considered . in what sense a surrogation of christ in our room is asserted by us . our redemption by christ proves a substitution . of the true notion of redemption : that explained , and proved against socinus and crellius . no necessity of paying the price to him that detains captive , where the captivity is not by force , but by sentence of law. christs death a proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : and therefore the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 attributed to it , cannot be taken for meer deliverance . we come now to consider the death of christ , as an expiatory sacrifice for the sins of mankind : which is as much denied by our adversaries , as that it was a punishment for our sins . for though they do not deny , that christ as a priest did offer up a sacrifice of expiation for the sins of men ; yet they utterly deny , that this was performed on earth , or that the expiation of sins did respect god , but only us ; or , that the death of christ , had any proper efficacy towards the expiation of sin , any further than as it comprehends in it all the consequences of his death , by a strange catechresis . i shall now therefore prove , that all things which do belong to a proper expiatory sacrifice , do agree to the death of christ. there are three things especially considerable in it : . a substitution in the place of the offenders . . an oblation of it to god. . an expiation of sin consequent upon it . now these three , i shall make appear to agree fully to the death of christ for us . . a substitution in the place of the offenders . that we are to prove , was designed in the expiatory sacrifices under the law , and that christ in his death for us , was substituted in our place . . that in the expiatory sacrifices under the law , there was a substitution of them in the place of the offenders . this our adversaries are not willing to yield us , because of the correspondency which is so plain in the epistle to the hebrews , between those sacrifices , and that which was offered up by christ. we now speak only of those sacrifices , which we are sure were appointed of old for the expiation of sin , by god himself . as to which the great rule assigned by the apostle was , that without shedding of blood there was no remission . if we yield crellius what he so often urgeth ; viz. that these words are to be understood , of what was done under the law : they will not be the less serviceable to our purpose ; for thereby it will appear , that the means of expiation lay in the shedding of blood : which shews , that the very mactation of the beast to be sacrificed , was designed in order to the expiation of sin . to an inquisitive person , the reason of the slaying such multitudes of beasts in the sacrifices appointed by god himself among the iews , would have appeared far less evident than now it doth , since the author of the epistle to the hebrews hath given us so full an account of them . for it had been very unreasonable to have thought , that they had been meerly instituted out of compliance with the customs of other nations , since the whole design of their religion , was to separate them from them : and on such a supposition the great design of the epistle to the hebrews signifies very little ; which doth far more explain to us the nature and tendency of all the sacrifices in use among them , that had any respect to the expiation of sins , than all the customs of the egyptians , or the commentaries of the latter iews . but i intend not now to discourse at large , upon this subject of sacrifices , either as to the nature and institution of them in general , or with a particular respect to the sacrifice of christ , since a learned person of our church , hath already undertaken crellius upon this argument , and we hope ere long will oblige the world with the benefit of his pains . i shall therefore only insist on those things which are necessary for our purpose , in order to the clearing the substitution of christ in our stead , for the expiation of our sins by his death ; and this we say was represented in the expiatory sacrifices , which were instituted among the iews . if we yield crellius what he after socinus contends for ; viz. that the sacrifice of christ was only represented in the publick and solemn expiatory sacrifices for the people , and especially those on the day of atonement : we may have enough from them to vindicate all that we assert , concerning the expiatory sacrifice of the blood of christ. for that those were designed by way of substitution in the place of the offenders , will appear from the circumstances and reason of their institution : but before we come to that , it will be necessary to shew what that expiation was , which the sacrifices under the law were designed for ; the not understanding of which , gives a greater force to our adversaries arguments , than otherwise they would have . for while men assert , that the expiation was wholly typical , and of the same nature with that expiation which is really obtained by the death of christ , they easily prove , that all the expiation then , was only declarative , and did no more depend on the sacrifices offered , than on a condition required by god , the neglect of which would be an act of disobedience in them ; and by this means it could represent , say they , no more than such an expiation to be by christ ; viz. gods declaring that sins are expiated by him , on the performance of such a condition required in order thereto , as laying down his life was . but we assert another kind of expiation of sin , by vertue of the sacrifice being slain and offered ; which was real , and depended upon the sacrifice : and this was twofold , a civil , and a ritual expiation , according to the double capacity in which the people of the iews may be considered , either as members of a society , subsisting by a body of laws , which according to the strictest sanction of it , makes death the penalty of disobedience , deut. . . but by the will of the legislator , did admit of a relaxation in many cases , allowed by himself ; in which he declares , that the death of the beast designed for a sacrifice should be accepted , instead of the death of the offender ; and so the offence should be fully expiated , as to the execution of the penal law upon him . and thus far , i freely admit what grotius asserts upon this subject , and do yield that no other offence could be expiated in this manner , but such which god himself did particularly declare should be so . and therefore no sin which was to be punished by cutting off , was to be expiated by sacrifice ; as wilful idolatry , murther , &c. which it is impossible for those to give an account of , who make the expiation wholly typical ; for why then should not the greatest sins much rather have had sacrifices of expiation appointed for them : because the consciences of men would be more solicitous for the pardon of greater than lesser sins ; and the blood of christ represented by them , was designed for the expiation of all . from whence it is evident , that it was not a meer typical expiation ; but it did relate to the civil constitution among them . but besides this , we are to consider the people with a respect to that mode of divine worship which was among them ; by reason of which , the people were to be purified from the legal impurities which they contracted , which hindred them from joyning with others in the publick worship of god , and many sacrifices were appointed purposely for the expiating this legal guilt , as particularly , the ashes of the red heifer , numb . . . which is there called a purification for sin . and the apostle puts the blood of bulls and of goats , and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling the unclean , together ; and the effect of both of them , he saith , was to sanctifie to the purifying of the flesh ; which implies , that there was some proper and immediate effect of these sacrifices upon the people at that time , though infinitely short of the effect of the blood of christ upon the consciences of men . by which it is plain , the apostle doth not speak of the same kind of expiation in those sacrifices , which was in the sacrifice of christ , and that the one was barely typical of the other ; but of a different kind of expiation , as far as purifying the flesh is from purging the conscience . but we do not deny , that the whole dispensation was typical , and that the law had a shadow of good things to come , and not the very image of the things , i. e. a dark and obscure representation , and not the perfect resemblance of them . there are two things which the apostle asserts concerning the sacrifices of the law : first , that they had an effect upon the bodies of men , which he calls purifying the flesh ; the other is , that they had no power to expiate for the sins of the soul , considered with a respect to the punishment of another life , which he calls purging the conscience from dead works ; and therefore he saith , that all the gifts and sacrifices under the law , could not make him that did the service perfect , as pertaining to the conscience , and that it was impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sin . so that the proper expiation which was made by them , was civil and ritual , relating either to corporal punishment , or to legal uncleanness , from whence the apostle well proves the necessity of a higher sacrifice to make expiation for sins , as pertaining to the conscience : but that expiation among the iews did relate to that polity which was established among them , as they were a people under the government of a body of laws distinct from the rest of the world . and they being considered as such , it is vain to enquire , whether they had only temporal or eternal promises ; for it was impossible they should have any other than temporal , unless we imagine , that god would own them for a distinct people in another world as he did in this . for what promises relate to a people as such , must consider them as a people , and in that capacity they must be the blessings of a society , viz. peace plenty , number of people , length of days , &c. but we are far from denying that the general principles of religion did remain among them , viz. that there is a god , and a rewarder of them that seek him ; and all the promises god made to the patriarchs , did continue in force as to another country , and were continually improved by the prophetical instructions among them . but we are now speaking of what did respect the people in general , by vertue of that law which was given them by moses , and in that respect the punishment of saults being either death or exclusion from the publick worship , the expiation of them , was taking away the obligation to either of these , which was the guilt of them in that consideration . but doth not this take away the typical nature of these sacrifices ? no , but it much rather establisheth it . for as socinus argues , if the expiation was only typical , there must be something in the type correspondent to that which is typified by it . as the brazen serpent typified christ , and the benefit which was to come by him , because as many as looked up to it were healed . and noahs ark is said to be a type of baptism , because as many as entred into that were saved from the deluge . so corinth . . the apostle saith , that those things happened to them in types , v. . because the events which happened to them , did represent those which would fall upon disobedient christians . so that to make good the true notion of a type , we must assert an expiation that was real then , and agreeable to that dispensation , which doth represent an expiation of a far higher nature , which was to be by the sacrifice of the blood of christ. which being premised , i now come to p●ove , that there was a substitution designed of the beast to be slain and sacrificed in stead of the offenders themselves . which will appear from levitious . . for the life of the flesh is in the blood , and i have given it you upon the altar , to make an atonement for your souls ; for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. the utmost that crellius would have meant by this place is , that there is a double reason assigned of the prohibition of eating blood , viz. that the life was in the blood , and that the blood was designed for expiation ; but he makes these wholly independent upon each other . but we say , that the proper reason assigned against the eating of the blood , is that which is elsewhere given , when this precept is mentioned , viz. that the blood was the life , as we may see gen. . levit. . . but to confirm the reason given , that the blood was the life ; he adds , that god had given them that upon the altar for an atonement for their souls : so the arabick version renders it , and therefore have i given it you upon the altar , viz. because the blood is the life : and hereby a sufficient reason is given , why god did make choice of the blood for atonement , for that is expressed in the latter clause , for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul ; why should this be mentioned here , if no more were intended but to give barely another reason why they should not eat the blood ? what force is there more in this clause to that end , than in the soregoing ? for therein god had said , that he had given it them for an atonement . if no more had been intended , but the bare prohibition of common use of the blood , on the account of its being consecrated to sacred use , it had been enough to have said , that the blood was holy unto the lord , as it is in the other instances mentioned by crellius , of the holy oyntment and perfume , for no other reason is there given , why it should not be profaned to common use , but that it should be holy for the lord ; if therefore the blood had been forbidden upon that account , there had been no necessity at all of adding , that the blood was it that made atonement for the soul : which gives no peculiar reason why they should not eat the blood , beyond that of bare consecration of it to a sacred use ; but if we consider it as respecting the first clause , viz. for the life of the flesh is in the blood , then there is a particular reason why the blood should be for atonement , viz. because the life was in that ; and therefore when the blood was offered , the life of the beast was supposed to be given instead of the life of the offender . according to that of ovid , hanc animam vobis pro meliore damus . this will be yet made clearer by another instance produced by crellius to explain this , which is the forbidding the eating of fat , which , saith he , is joyned with this of blood , levit. . . it shall be a perpetual s●atute for your generations , throughout all your dwellings , that ye eat neither fat , nor blood . to the same purpose , levit. . , , . now no other reason is given of the prohibition of the fat , but this , all the fat is the lords . which was enough to keep them from eating it ; but we see here in the case of blood somewhat further is assigned , viz. that it was the life ; and therefore was most proper for expiation , the life of the beast being substituted in the place of the offenders . which was therefore called anamalis hostia among the romans , as grotius observes upon this place , and was distinguished from those whose entrails were observed ; for in those sacrifices as servius saith , sola anima deo sacratur , the main of the sacrifice lay in shedding of the blood , which was called the soul ; and so it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this place . from whence it appears that such a sacrifice was properly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the same word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used , both relating to the blood and the soul , that is expiated by it : and the lxx do accordingly render it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and in the last clause , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . from whence eusebius calls these sacrifices of living creatures , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and afterwards saith they were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and crellius elsewhere grants , that where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is joyned with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it doth imply that one doth undergo the punishment which another was to have undergone , which is all we mean by substitution , it being done in the place of another . from whence it follows , that the sacrifices under the law being said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth necessarily infer a substitution of them in the place of the offenders . and from hence may be understood , what is meant by the goat of the sin offering , bearing the iniquity of the congregation , to make atonement for them before the lord , levit. . . for crellius his saying , that bearing is as much as taking away , or declaring that they are taken away , hath been already disproved : and his other answer hath as little weight in it ; viz. that it is not said , that the sacrifice did bear their iniquities , but the priest : for , . the chaldee paraphrast , and the syriack version , understand it wholly of the sacrifice . . socinus himself grants , that if it were said , the priest did expiate by the sacrifices , it were all one as if it were said , that the sacrifices themselves did expiate ; because the expiation of the priest was by the sacrifice . thus it is plain in the case of uncertain murther , mentioned deut . from the first to the tenth ; if a murther were committed in the land , and the person not known who did it , a heifer was to have her head cut of by the elders of the next city ; and by this means they were to put away the guilt of the innocent blood from among them : the reason of which was , because god had said before , that blood defiled the land , and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein , but by the blood of him that shed it . from whence it appears , that upon the shedding of blood , there was a guilt contracted upon the whole land wherein it was shed , and in case the murtherer was not found to expiate that guilt by his own blood , then it was to be done by the cutting off the head of a heifer instead of him : in which case , the death of the heiser was to do as much towards the expiating the land , as the death of the murtherer if he had been found : and we do not contend , that this was designed to expiate the murtherers guilt ( which is the objection of crellius against this instance ) but that a substitution here was appointed by god himself , for the expiation of the peo●… : for what crellius adds , that the people did not deserve punishment , and therefore needed no expiation ; it is a flat contradiction to the text : for the prayer appointed in that case is , be merciful , o lord , unto thy people israel , whom thou hast redeemed , and lay not innocent blood unto thy people israels charge , and the blood shall be expiated ; for the same word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used here , which is in the other places where expiation is spoken of . so that here must be some guilt supposed , where there was to be an expiation , and this expiation was performed by the substitution of a sacrifice in the place of the offender . which may be enough at present to shew , that a substitution was admitted by the law , of a sacrifice instead of the offender , in order to the expiation of guilt ; but whether the offender himself was to be freed by that sacrifice , depends upon the terms on which the sacrifice was offered ; for we say still , that so much guilt was expiated , as the sacrifice was designed to expiate ; if the sacrifice was designed to expiate the guilt of the offender , his sin was expiated by it ; if not his , in case no sacrifice was allowed by the law , as in that of murther , then the guilt which lay upon the land was expiated , although the offender himself were never discovered . i now come to prove , that in correspondency to such a substitution of the sacrifices for sin under the law , christ was substituted in our room for the expiation of our guilt ; and that from his being said to dye for us , and his death being called a price of redemption for us . . from christs being said to dye for us . by st. peter , for christ hath also once suffered for sins , the just for the unjust ; by whom he is also said , to suffer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for us , and , for us in the flesh : by st. paul , he is said to dye 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for all , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the ungodly , and to give himself 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a ransom for all , and , to taste death 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for every man : by caiaphas , speaking by inspiration , he is said to dye 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the people . so christ himself instituting his last supper said , this is my body which was given , and my blood which was shed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for you ; and before he had said , that the son of man came to give his life 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a ransom for many . we are now to consider , what arts our adversaries have made use of to pervert the meaning of these places , so as not to imply a substitution of christ in our room : . they say , that all these phrases do imply no more , than a final cause ; viz. that christ died for the good of mankind ; for the apostle tells us , we are bound to lay down our lives for the brethren , and st. paul is said to suffer for the church . to which i answer ; . this doth not at all destroy that which we now plead for ; viz. that these phrases do imply a substitution of christ in our room : for when we are bid to lay down our lives for our brethren , a substitution is implied therein ; and supposing that dying for another , doth signifie dying for some benefit to come to him , yet what doth this hinder substitution , unless it be proved , that one cannot obtain any benefit for another , by being substituted in his room . nay , it is observable , that although we produce so many places of scripture , implying such a substitution , they do not offer to produce one that is inconsistent with christs suffering in our stead ; all that they say is , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not always signifie so , which we never said it did , who say , that christ suffered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not instead of our sins , but by reason of them ; but we assert , that when one person is said to dye for others , as in the places mentioned , no other sense can be so proper and agreeable , as dying in the stead of the other . . socinus himself grants , that there is a peculiarity implied in those phrases , when attributed to christ , above what they have when attributed to any other . and therefore he saith , it cannot be properly said , that one brother dies for another , or that paul suffered for the colossians , or for the church , as christ may truly and properly be said to suffer and to dye for us . and from hence , saith he , st. paul saith , was paul crucified for you ? implying thereby , that there never was , or could be any , who truly and properly could be said to dye for men but christ alone . how unreasonable then is it , from the use of a particle as applied to others , to infer , that it ought to be so understood , when applied to christ ? when a peculiarity is acknowledged in the death of christ for us , more than ever was or could be in one mans dying for another . . it is not the bare force of the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that we insist upon ; but that a substitution could not be more properly expressed , than it is in scripture , by this and other particles , for not only 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 too : which socinus saith , although it may signifie something else besides in the stead of another , yet in such places , where it is spoken of a ransom or price , it signifies the payment of something which was owing before , as mat. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so he acknowledges , that where redemption is spoken of , there 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth imply a commutation , because the price is given , and the person received , which , he saith , holds in christ only metaphorically : for the redemption according to him being only metaphoricall , the commutation must be supposed to be so too . and this now leads us to the larger answer of crellius upon this argument . wherein we shall consider , what he yields , what he denies , and upon what reasons . . he yields , and so he saith , doth socinus very freely , a commutation : but it is necessary that we should throughly understand what he means by it : to that end he tells us , that they acknowledge a twofold commutation ; one of the person suffering , the kind of suffering being changed , not actually but intentionally , because we are not actually freed by christ dying for us , but only christ dyed for that end , that we might be freed . and this commutation , he saith , that socinus doth not deny to be implied in the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the places where christ is said to dye for us . another commutation , which he acknowledges , is , that which is between a price , and the thing or person which is bought or redeemed by it ; where the price is paid , and the thing or person is received upon it . and this kind of commutation , he saith , is to be understood in the places where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is mentioned ; which price , he saith , by accident may be a person ; and because the person is not presently delivered , he therefore saith , that the commutation is rather imperfect than metaphorical ; and although , he saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not of it self imply a commutation , yet he grants , that the circumstances of the places do imply it . . he denies , that there is any proper surrogation in christs dying for us , which , he saith , is such a commutation of persons , that the substituted person is in all respects to be in the same place and state wherein the other was ; and if it refers to sufferings ; then it is when one suffers the very same which the other was to suffer , he being immediately delivered by the others sufferings . and against this kind of surrogation , crellius needed not to have produced any reasons ; for grotius never asserted it ; neither do we say , that christ suffered eternal death for us , or that we were immediately freed by his sufferings . but that which grotius asserts that he meant by substitution was this , that unless christ had died for us , we must have died our selves , and because christ hath died we shall not die eternally . but if this be all , saith crellius , he meant by it , we grant the whole thing , and he complains of it as an injury for any to think otherwise of them . if so , they cannot deny but that there was a sufficient capacity in the death of christ to be made an expiatory sacrifice for the sins of the world . but notwithstanding all these fair words , crellius means no more than socinus did ; and though he would allow the words which grotius used , yet not in the sense he understood them in ; for crellius means no more by all this , but that the death of christ was an antecedent condition to the expiation of sins in heaven , grotius understands by them , that christ did expiate sins by becoming a sacrifice for them in his death . however , from hence it appears , that our adversaries can have no plea against the death of christs being an expiatory sacrifice ( from want of a substitution in our room ) since they profess themselves so willing to own such a substitution . but if they say , that there could be no proper substitution , because the death of christ was a bare condition , and no punishment , they then express their minds more freely ; and if these places be allowed to prove a substitution , i hope the former discourse will prove that it was by way of punishment . neither is it necessary , that the very same kind of punishment be undergone in order to surrogation , but that it be sufficient in order to the accomplishing the end for which it was designed . for this kind of substitution being in order to the delivery of another by it , whatever is sufficient for that end , doth make a proper surrogation . for no more is necessary to the delivery of another person than the satisfying the ends of the law and government , and if that may be done by an aequivalent suffering , though not the same in all respects , then it may be a proper surrogation . if david had obtained his wish , that he had died for his son absolom , it had not been necessary in order to his sons escape , that he had hanged by the hair of his head , as his son did ; but his death , though in other circumstances , had been sufficient . and therefore when the lawyers say , subrogatum , sapit naturam ejus in cujus locum subrogatur : covarruvias tells us , it is to be understood secundum primordialem naturam non secundum accidentalem ; from whence it appears , that all circumstances are not necessary to be the same in surrogation ; but that the nature of the punishment remain the same . thus christ dying for us , to deliver us from death , and the curse of the law , he underwent an accursed death for that end ; although not the very same which we were to have undergone , yet sufficient to shew , that he underwent the punishment of our iniquities in order to the delivering us from it . and if our adversaries will yield us this , we shall not much contend with them about the name of a proper surrogation . but in the matter of redemption , or where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used , crellius will by no means yield that there was a commutation of persons between christ and us , but all the commutation he will allow here is only a commutation between a thing , or a price , and a person . which he therefore asserts , that so there may be no necessity of christs undergoing the punishment of sin in order to redemption , because the price that is to be paid , is not supposed to undergo the condition of the person delivered by it . which will evidently appear to have no force at all , in case we can prove , that a proper redemption may be obtained by the punishment of one in the room of another ; for that punishment then comes to be the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or price of redemption ; and he that pays this , must be supposed to undergo punishment for it . so that the commutation being between the punishment of one , and the other redeemed by it , here is a proper commutation of persons implied in the payment of the price . but hereby we may see that the great subtilty of our adversaries is designed on purpose to avoid the force of the places of scripture , which are so plain against them : for when these places where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are joyned together , are so clear for a substitution , that they cannot deny it ; then they say , by it is meant only a commutation of a price for a person ; but when the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is urged to prove a redemption purchased by christ , by the payment of a price for it , then they deny that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signifie a proper price , but is only taken metaphorically ; and yet if it be so taken , then there can be no force in what crellius saith , for a bare metaphorical price may be a real punishment : two things i shall then prove against crellius . . that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as applied to christ , is to be taken in a proper sense . . that although it be taken in a proper sense , yet it doth not imply a bare commutation of a price and a person , but a substitution of one person in the room of another . both these will be cleared from the right stating the notion of redemption between our adversaries and us . for they will not by any means have any other proper notion of redemption but from captivity , and that by the payment of a price to him that did hold in captivity , and therefore because christ did not pay the price to the devil , there could be no proper sense either of the redemption , or the price which was paid for it . this is the main strength of all the arguments used by socinus and crellius , to enervate the force of those places of scripture which speak of our redemption by christ , and of the price which he paid in order to it . but how weak these exceptions are , will appear upon a true examination of the proper notion of redemption , which in its primary importance signifies no more , than the obtaining of one thing by another as a valuable consideration for it . thence redimere anciently among the latins signified barely to purchase by a valuable price , for the thing which they had a right to by it ; and sometimes to purchase that which a man hath sold before , thence the pac●um redimendi in contracts : still in whatever sense it was used by the lawyers or others , the main regard was , to the consideration upon which the thing was obtained , thence redimere delatorem pecunia , h. e. eum à delatione deducere ; so redimere litem ; and redemptor litis was one that upon certain consideration took the whole charge of a suit upon himself : and those who undertook the farming of customs at certain rates , were called redemptores vectigalium , quiredempturis auxissent vectigalia , saith livy . and all those who undertook any publick work at a certain price , redemptores antiquitus dicebantur , saith festus and ulpian . from hence it was applied to the delivery of any person from any inconvenience that he lay under , by something which was supposed a valuable consideration for it . and that it doth not only relate to captivity , but to any other great calamity , the freedom from which is obtained by what another suffers ; is apparent from these two remarkable expressions of cicero to this purpose . quam quidem ego ( saith he , speaking of the sharpness of the time ) a rep . meis privatis & domesticis incommodis libentissimè redemissem . and more expresly elsewhere , ego vitam omnium civium , statum orbis terrae urbem hanc denique , &c. quinque hominum amentium ac perditorum poena redemi . where it is plain , that redemption is used for the delivery of some by the punishment of others ; not from meer captivity , but from a great calamity which they might have fallen into , without such a punishment of those persons . so vain is that assertion of socinus , redimere , nihil aliud propriè significat , quam eum captivum e manibus illius , qui eum detinet , pretio illi dato liberare . and yet supposing we should grant that redemption as used in sacred authors doth properly relate to captivity , there is no necessity at all of that which our adversaries contend so earnestly for , viz. that the price must be paid to him that detains captive . for we may very easily conceive a double sort of captivity , from whence a redemption may be obtained ; the one by force , when a captive is detained purposely for advantage to be made by his redemption ; and the other in a judicial manner , when the law condemns a person to captivity , and the thing designed by the law is not a meer price , but satisfaction to be made to the law , upon which a redemption may be obtained ; now in the former case it is necessary , that the price be paid to the person who detains , because the reason of his detaining , was the expectation of the price to be pald ; but in the latter , the detainer is meerly the instrument for execution of the law , and the price of redemption is not to be paid to him ; but to those who are most concerned in the honour of the law. but crellius objects , that the price can never be said to be paid to god , because our redemption is attributed to god as the author of it , and because we are said to be redeemed for his use and service , now , saith he , the price can never be paid to him for whose service the person is redeemed . but all this depends upon the former mistake , as though we spake all this while of such a redemption , as that is of a captive by force ; in whom the detainer is no further concerned , than for the advantage to be made by him ; and in that case the price must be paid to him who detains , because it would otherwise be unsuccessful for his deliverance : but in case of captivity by law , as the effect of disobedience , the magistrate who is concerned in the life of the person , and his future obedience may himself take care that satisfaction may be given to the law for his redemption , in order to his future serviceableness . from hence we see both that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is proper in this case of our redemption , and that it is not a meer commutation of a price for a person , but a commutation of one persons suffering for others , which suffering being a punishment in order to satisfaction , is a valuable consideration , and therefore a price for the redemption of others by it . which price in this sense doth imply a proper substitution ; which was the thing to be proved . which was the first thing to be made good concerning the death of christ being a sacrifice for sin , viz. that there was a substitution of christ in our stead as of the sacrifices of old under the law ; and in this sense the death of christ was a proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or price of redemption for us . nothing then can be more vain , than the way of our adversaries , to take away the force of all this , because 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is sometimes taken for a meet deliverance without any price , which we deny not ; but the main force of our argument is from the importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , where the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is mentioned ; and then we say that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when applied to sins , signifies expiation , ( as heb. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ) but when applied to persons , it signifies the deliverance purchased by the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is not to be considered as a bare price , or a thing given , but as a thing undergone in order to that deliverance : and is therefore not only called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 too , which crellius confesseth doth imply a commutation , and we have shewed , doth prove a substitution of christ in our place . chap. v. the notion of a sacrifice belongs to the death of christ , because of the oblation made therein to god. crellius his sense of christs oblation proposed . against him it is proved , that the priestly office of christ had a primary respect to god , and not to us . expiatory sacrifices did divert the wrath of god. christ not a bare metaphorical high-priest . crellius destroys the priesthood of christ by confounding it with the exercise of his regal power . no proper expiation of sin belongs to christ in heaven , if crellius his doctrine be true . ephes. . . proves the death of christ an expiatory sacrifice , and an oblation to god. the phrase of a sweet-smelling savour , belongs to expiatory sacrifices ; crellius his gross notion of it . his mistakes about the kinds of sacrifices . burnt-offerings were expiatory sacrifices both before and under the law. a new distribution of sacrifices proposed . what influence the mactation of the sacrifice had on expiation . the high-priest only to slay the sin-offering on the day of atonement ; from whence it is proved , that christs priesthood did not begin from his entrance into heaven . the mactation in expiatory sacrifices no bare preparation to a sacrifice , proved by the iewish laws , and the customs of other nations . whether christs oblation of himself once to god , were in heaven , or on earth ? of the proper notion of oblations under the levitical law. several things observed from thence to our purpose . all things necessary to a legal oblation , concur in the death of christ , his entrance into heaven hath no correspondency with it ; if the blood of christ were no sacrifice for sin . in sin-offerings for the people , the whole was consumed ; no eating of the sacrifices allowed the priests , but in those for private persons . christs exercise of power in heaven , in no sense an oblation to god. crellius , his sense repugnant to the circumstances of the places in dispute . objections answered . the second thing to prove the death of christ a sacrifice for sin , is the oblation of it to god for that end . grotius towards the conclusion of his book , makes a twofold oblation of christ , parallel to that of the sacrifices under the law , the first of mactation , the second of representation ; whereof the first was done in the temple , the second in the holy of holies ; so the first of christ was on earth , the second in heaven ; the first is not a bare preparation to a sacrifice , but a sacrifice : the latter not so much a sacrifice , as the commemoration of one already past . wherefore , since appearing and interceding are not properly sacerdotal acts , any further than they depend on the efficacy of a sacrifice already offered , he that takes away that sacrifice , doth not leave to christ any proper priesthood , against the plain authority of the scripture , which assigns to christ the office of a priest distinct from that of a prophet and a king. to which crellius replies : that the expiation of sin doth properly belong to what christ doth in heaven ; and may be applyed to the death of christ only , as the condition by which he was to enjoy that power in heaven , whereby he doth expiate sins ; but the priest was never said to expiate sins when he killed the beast , but when the blood was sprinkled or carried into the holy of holies , to which the oblation of christ in heaven doth answer : but mactation , saith he , was not proper to the priests , but did belong to the levites also . and christ was not truly a priest , while we was on earth , but only prepared by his sufferings to be one in heaven , where by the perpetual care he takes of his people , and exercising his power for them , he is said to offer up himself , and intercede for them , and by that means he dischargeth the office of a high-priest for them . for his priestly office , he saith , is never in scripture mentioned as distinct from his kingly , but is comprehended under it ; and the great difference between them is , that one is of a larger extension than the other is , the kingly office extending to punishing , and the priestly only to expiation . this is the substance of what crellius more at large discourseth upon this subject . wherein he asserts these things . . that the priestly office of christ doth not in reference to the expiation of sins respect god but us ; his intercession and oblation wherein he makes the sacerdotal function of christ to consist , being the exercise of his power for the good of his people . . that christ did offer up no sacrifice of expiation to god upon earth , because the mactation had no reference to expiation , any other than as a preparation for it ; and christ not yet being constituted a high-priest till after his resurrection from the dead . against these two assertions i shall direct my following discourse , by proving ; . that the priestly office of christ had a primary respect to god , and not to us , . that christ did exercise this priestly office in the oblation of himself to god upon the cross. . that the priestly office of christ had a primary respect to god , and not to us ; which appears from the first institution of a high-priest , mentioned by the apostle , hebr. . . for every high-priest taken from among men , is ordained for men in things pertaining to god , that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins : id est , saith crellius elsewhere , ut procuret & peragat ea quae ad colendum ac propitiandum numen pertinent ; i. e. that he may perform the things which appertain to the worshipping and propitiating god : we desire no more , but that the propiating god , may as immediately be said to respect him , as the worshipping of god doth ; or let crellius tell us , what sense the propitiating god will bear ; if all that the high-priest had to do , did immediately respect the people : nay , he saith not long after , that it was the chief office of a high-priest , to plead the cause of sinners with god , and to take care , that they may find him kind and propitious , and not angry or displeased . in what sense god was said to be moved by the expiatory sacrifices , is not here our business to discuss ; it is sufficient for our purpose , that they were instituted with a respect to god , so as to procure his favour , and divert his wrath . in which sense , the priest is so often in the levitical law said , by the offering up of sacrifices , to expiate the sins of the people . but crellius saith , this ought not so to be understood , as though god by expiatory sacrifices , were diverted from his anger , and inclined to pardon ; which is a plain contradiction , not only to the words of the law , but to the instances that are recorded therein ; as when aaron was bid in the time of the plague to make an atonement for the people , for there is wrath gone out from the lord : and he stood between the living and the dead ; and the plague was stayed . was not gods anger then diverted here , by the making this atonement ? the like instance we read in davids time , that by the offering burnt-offerings , &c. the lord was intreated for the land , and the plague was stayed from israel : by which nothing can be more plain , than that the primary intention of such sacrifices , and consequently of the office of the priest who offered them , did immediately respect the atoning god : but yet crellius urgeth , this cannot be said of all , or of the most proper expiatory sacrifices : but we see it said of more than the meer sacrifices for sin , as appointed by the law ; viz. of burnt-offerings , and peace-offerings , and incense , in the examples mentioned . so that these levitical sacrifices did all respect the atoning god ; although in some particular cases ; different sacrifices were to be offered ; for it is said , the burnt-offering was to make atonement for them , as well as the sin and trespass-offerings ( excepting those sacrifices which were instituted in acknowledgement of gods soveraignty over them , and presence among them , as the daily sacrifices , the meat and drink offerings , or such as were meerly occasional , &c. ) thus it is said , that aaron and his sons were appointed to make an atonement for israel : so that as grotius observes out of philo , the high-priest was a mediator between god and man , by whom men might propitiate god , and god dispense his favours to men . but the means whereby he did procure favoursto men , was by atoning god by the sacrifices , which he was by his office to offer to him . we are now to consider , how far this holds in reference to christ , for whose sake the apostle brings in these words ; and surely would not have mentioned this as the primary office of a high-priest , in order to the proving christ to be our high-priest , after a more excellent manner than the aaronical was , unless he had agreed with him in the nature of his office , and exceeded him in the manner of performance . for the apostle both proves , that he was a true and proper , and not a bare metaphorical high-priest , and that in such a capacity , he very far exceeded the priests after the order of aaron . but how could that possibly be , if he failed in the primary office of a high-priest ; viz. in offering up gifts and sacrifices to god ? if his office as high-priest did primarily respect men , when the office of the aaronical priest did respect god ? to avoid this , crellius makes these words to be only an allusion to the legal priesthood , and some kind of similitude between christ and the aaronical priests ; but it is such a kind of allusion , that the apostle designs to prove , christ to be an high-priest by it ; and which is of the greatest force , he proves the necessity of christs having somewhat to offer from hence : for every high-priest is ordained to offer gifts , and sacrifices ; wherefore it is of necessity , that this man have somewhat also to offer . this is that which he looks at as the peculiar and distinguishing character of a high-priest ; for interceding for others , and having compassion upon them , might be done by others besides the high-priest ; but this was that , without which he could not make good his name , what order soever he were of . if christ then had no proper sacrifice to offer up to god , to what purpose doth the apostle so industriously set himself to prove , that he is our high-priest ? when he must needs fail in the main thing , according to his own assertion ? how easie had it been for the iews , to have answered all the apostles arguments concerning the priesthood of christ , if he had been such a priest , and made no other oblation than crellius allows him ? when the apostle proves against the iews , that there was no necessity , that they should still retain the mosaical dispensation , because now they had a more excellent high-priest than the aaronical were ; and makes use of that character of a high-priest , that he was one taken out from among men , in things pertaining to god to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins : well , say the iews , we accept of this character , but how do you prove concerning christ , that he was such a one ? did he offer up a sacrifice for sin to god upon earth , as our high-priests do ? no , saith crellius , his sufferings were only a preparation for his priesthood in heaven : but did he then offer up such a sacrifice to god in heaven ? yes , saith crellius , he made an oblation there . but is that obligation such a sacrifice to god for sin , as our high-priests offers ? yes , saith crellius , it may be called so by way of allusion . well then , say they , you grant that your iesus is only a high-priest by way of allusion , which was against your first design to prove ; viz. that he was a true high-priest , and more excellent than ours . but suppose it be by way of allusion , doth he make any oblation to god in heaven or not ? no , saith crellius , really and truly he doth not : for all his office doth respect us , but the benefits we enjoy coming originally from the kindness of god , you may call it an oblation to god if you please . but how is it possible then , say the iews , you can ever convince us , that he is any high-priest , or priest at all , much less , that he should ever exceed the aaronical high-priests in their office ? for we are assured , that they do offer sacrifices for sin , and that god is attoned by them : but if your high-priest make no atonement for sin , he falls far short of ours , and therefore we will still hold to our levitical priesthood , and not forsake that for one barely metaphorical , and having nothing really answering the name of a high-priest . thus the force of all the apostles arguments is plainly taken away , by what crellius and his brethren assert concerning the priesthood of christ. but crellius thinks to make it good by saying , that things that are improper and figurative , may be far more excellent than the things that are proper , to which they are opposed ; so that christs priesthood may be far more excellent than the aaronical , although his be only figurative , and the other proper . but the question is not , whether christs priesthood by any other adventitious considerations , as of greater power and authority than the aaronical priests had , may be said to be far more excellent than theirs was ; but , whether in the notion of priesthood , it doth exceed theirs ? which it is impossible to make good , unless he had some proper oblation to make unto god , which in it self did far exceed all the sacrifices and offerings under the law. but what that oblation of christ in heaven was , which had any correspondency with the sacrifices under the law , our adversaries can never assign ; nay , when they go about it , they speak of it in such a manner , as makes it very evident they could heartily have wished the epistle to the hebrews had said as little of the priesthood of christ , as they say , any other part of the new testament doth . thence smalcius and crellius insist so much upon the priesthood of christ , being distinctly mentioned by none but the author to the hebrews ; which , say they , had surely been done , if christ had been a proper priest , or that office in him distinct from his kingly . which sufficiently discovers what they would be at ; viz. that the testimony of the author to the hebrews , is but a single testimony in this matter ; and in truth , they do ( as far as is consistent with not doing it in express words ) wholly take away the priesthood of christ : for what is there which they say his priesthood implies , which he might not have had , supposing he had never been called a priest ? his being in heaven , doth not imply that he is a priest , unless it be impossible for any but priests ever to come there : his power and authority over the church , doth not imply it ; for that power is by themselves confessed to be a regal power : his readiness to use that power , cannot imply it , which is the thing smalcius insists on ; for his being a king of the church , doth necessarily imply his readiness to make use of his power for the good of his church . his receiving his power from god , doth not imply that he was a priest , although crellius insists on that , unless all the kings of the earth are priests by that means too , and christ could not have had a subordinate power as king , as well as priest. but his death is more implied , saith crellius , in the name of a priest , than of a king ; true , if his death be considered as a sacrifice , but not otherwise : for what is there of a priest in bare dying , do not others so too ? but this represents greater tenderness and care in christ , than the meer title of a king : what kind of king do they imagine christ the mean while , if his being so , did not give the greatest encouragement to all his subjects ? nay , it is plain , the name of a king must yield greater comfort to his people , because that implies his power to desend them , which the bare name of a priest doth not . so that there could be no reason at all given , why the name of a high-priest should be at all given to christ , if no more were implied in it , than the exercise of his power with respect to us , without any proper oblation to god : for here is no proper sacerdotal act at all attributed to him ; so that upon their hypothesis , the name of high-priest , is a meer insignificant title used by the author to the hebrews , without any foundation at all for it . by no means , saith cellius , for his expiation of sin is implyed by it , which is not implyed in the name of king : true , if the expiation of sin were done by him in the way of a priest by an oblation to god , which they deny ; but though they call it expiation , they mean no more than the exercise of his divine power in the delivering his people . but what parallel was there to this in the expiation of sins by the levitical priesthood ? that was certainly done by a sacrifice offered to god by the priest , who was thereby said to expiate the sins of the people : how comes it now to be taken quite in another sense , and yet still called by the same name ? but this being the main thing insisted on by them , i shall prove from their own principles , that no expiation of sin in their own sense can belong to christ in heaven , by vertue of his oblation of himself there , and consequently that they must unavoidably overthrow the whole notion of the priesthood of christ. for this we are to consider , what their notion of the expiation of sins is , which is set down briefly by crellius in the beginning of his discourse of sacrifices , there is a twofold power , saith he , of the sacrifice of christ towards the expiation of sin , one taking away the guilt and the punishment of sin , and that partly by declaring , that god will do it , and giving us a right to it , partly by actual deliverance from punishment ; the other is by begetting faith in us , and so drawing us off from the practice of sin : now the first and last crellius and socinus attribute to the death of christ , as that was a confirmation of the covenant god made for the remission of sin ; and as it was an argument to perswade us to believe the truth of his doctrine ; and the other , viz. the actual deliverance from punishment , is by themselves attributed to the second coming of christ ; for then only , they say , the just shall be actually delivered from the punishment of sin , viz. eternal death ; and what expiation is there now left to the oblation of christ in heaven ? doth christ in heaven declare the pardon of sin any other way than it was declared by him upon earth ? what efficacy hath his oblation in heaven upon perswading men to believe ? or is his second coming , when he shall sit as judge , the main part of his priesthood ; for then the expiation of sins in our adversaries sense is most proper ? and yet nothing can be more remote from the notion of christs pristhood , than that is ; so that expiation of sins according to them can have no respect at all to the oblation of christ in heaven , or ( which is all one in their sense ) his continuance in heaven to his second coming . yes , saith crellius , his continuance there , is a condition in order to the expiation by actual deliverance , and therefore it may be said , that god is as it were moved by it to expiate sins . the utmost then , that is attributed to christs being in heaven , in order to the expiation of sins , is that he must continue there without doing anything in order to it ; for if he does , it must either respect god or us : but they deny ( though contrary to the importance of the words , and the design of the places where they are used ) that the terms of christs interceding for us , or being an advocate with the father for us , do note any respect to god , but only to us ; if he does any thing with respect to us in expiation of sin , it must be either declaring , perswading , or actual deliverance ; but it is none of these by their own assertions ; and therefore that which they call christs oblation , or his being in heaven , signifies nothing as to the expiation of sin : and it is unreasonable to suppose that a thing , which hath no influence at all upon it , should be looked on as a condition in order to it . from whence it appears , that while our adversaries do make the exercise of christs priesthood to respect us and not god , they destroy the very nature of it , and leave christ only an empty name without any thing answering to it : but if christ be truly a high-priest , as the apostle asserts that he is , from thence it follows that he must have a respect to god in offering up gifts and sacrifices for sin : which was the thing to be proved . . that christ did exercise this priestly office in the oblation of himself to god upon the cross. which i shall prove by two things , . because the death of christ is said in scripture to be an offering , and a sacrifice to god. . because christ is said to offer up himself antecedently to his entrance into heaven . . because the death of christ is said to be an offering and a sacrifice to god , which is plain from the words of st. paul , as christ also hath loved us , and given himself for us , an offering and a sacrifice to god , for a sweet-smelling savour . our adversaries do not deny that the death of christ is here called an oblation , but they deny , that it is meant of an expiatory sacrifice , but of a free will offering ; and the reason crellius gives is , because that phrase of a sweet-smelling savour is generally and almost always used of sacrifices which are not expiatory ; but if ever they be used of an expiatory sacrifice , they are not applyed to that which was properly expiatory in it , viz. the offering up of the blood , for no smell , saith he , went up from thence , but to the burning of the fat , and the kidneys , which although required to perfect the expiation , yet not being done till the high-priest returned out of the holy of holies , hath nothing correspondent to the expiatory sacrifice of christ , where all things are persected before christ the high-priest goes forth of his sanctuary . how inconsistent these last words are with what they assert concerning the expiation of sin by actual deliverance at the great day , the former discourse hath already discovered . for what can be more absurd , than to say , that all things which pertain to the expiation of sin are perfected before christ goes forth from his sanctuary , and yet to make the most proper expiation of sin to lye in that act of christ which is consequent to his going forth of the sanctuary , viz. when he proceeds to judge the quick and the dead . but of that already . we now come to a punctual and direct answer , as to which two things must be enquired into . . what the importance of the phrase of a sweet-smelling savour is ? . what the sacrifices are to which that phrase is applyed ? . for the importance of the phrase . the first time we read it used in scripture was upon the occasion of noahs sacrifice after the flood , of which it is said , that he offered burnt-offerings on the altar , and the lord smelled a savour of rest , or a sweet savour . which we are not to imagine in a gross corporeal manner , as crellius seems to understand it , when he saith , the blood could not make such a savour as the fat and the kidneys ; for surely , none ever thought the smell of flesh burnt was a sweet-smelling savour of it self , and we must least of all imagine that of god , which porphyry saith , was the property only of the worst of daemons to be pleased , and as it were , to grow fat , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , with the smell and vapours of blood , and flesh , ( by which testimony it withal appears , that the same steams in sacrifices were supposed to arise from the blood as the flesh : ) but we are to understand that phrase in a sense agreeable to the divine nature , which we may easily do , if we take it in the sense the syriack version takes it in , when it calls it . odorem placabilitatis , or the savour of rest , as the word properly signifies ; for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the word formed from the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is used for the resting of the ark , v. . of the same chapter , and so it imports a rest after some commotion , and in that sense is very proper to atonement , or that whereby god makes his anger to rest ; so aben ezra upon that place expounds the savour of rest , to be such a one which makes god cease from his anger : thence in hiphil 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies to appease , or to make peace ; in which sense it is used by r. solom . upon isa. . . munster tells us the sense is , deus nunc quievit ab ira & placatus fuit , and to the same purpose vatablus : which sense is most agreeable to the design of the following words , in which god expresseth his great kindness , and the lord said in his heart , i will not again curse the ground any more for mans sake ; which are words highly expressing , how much god was propitiated by the sacrifice which noah offered , and therefore iosephus doth well interpret this to be a proper expiatory sacrifice ; that god would now be aioned , and send no more such a deluge upon the world ; which he saith , was the substance of noahs prayer , when he offered this burnt-offering , and that god would receive his sacrifice 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that he would no more receive such displeasure against the earth : so that the first time ever this expression was used , it is taken in the proper sense of an expiatory sacrifice . and by that the second enquiry may be easily resolved ; viz. what kind of sacrifices it doth belong to , which we see in the first place is , to expiatory , which crellius denies by a great mistake , of the sense of the phrase , and of the nature of the offerings , concerning which this expression is most used ; viz. holocausts , as though those were not expiatory sacrifices : but if we can make it appear , that the holocausts were expiatory sacrifices , then it will follow , that this phrase doth most properly agree to a sacrifice designed for expiation . but crellius here speaks very confusedly concerning sacrifices , opposing holocausts and freewil-offerings to expiatory sacrifices ; whereas the freewil-offerings might be expiatory , as well as eucharistical ; that denomination not respecting the end the sacrifices were designed for , but that the precise time of offering them was not determined by the law ; as in the stated and solemn sacrifices . for the general distribution of sacrifices , seems most proper into propitiatory and encharistical ; which distinction is thought by some to hold from the first time we read of sacrifices in scripture ; because the sacrifice of cain was of the fruits of the ground , and of abel , of the firstlings of his flock . although there seems to be nothing meant by this difference of sacrifices , but the diversity of their imployments , either of them sacrificing according to them ; and i cannot say what some do , that the reason of gods rejecting cains sacrifice , was because it was not designed for expiation . but the practice of after ages , wherein we have a fuller account of the grounds of the several sacrifices , makes it appear , that the expiatory sacrifices before the law , were all burnt-offerings ; and of all those who were not under the particular obligation of that law : as is plain in the expiatory sacrifices of iob for his sons , and for his friends , which were burnt-offerings ; and among the iews , all the sacrifices that were offered up before the levitical law , were , as the iews themselves tell us , only burnt-offerings : and after the setling of their worship among themselves , they did receive burnt-offerings for expiation from strangers , as mr. selden at large proves from the iewish writers . it seems then very strange , that since burnt-offerings before the law were expiatory , and under the law they continued so for strangers , they should be of another nature for the iews themselves . but what reason is there for it in the text ? not the least that i can find , but expresly the contrary . for in the beginning of leviticus , where the law for burnt-offerings is delivered , the words are , and he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt-offering● , and it shall be accepted for him , to make atonement for him ; which is as much as is ever said of any expiatory sacrifices : and in the verse before , where we render 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of his own voluntary will ; it is by the vulgar latin rendred , ad placandum sibi dominum ; by the syriack version , ad placationem sibi obtinendam à domino ; and to the same purpose by the chaldee paraphrast ; but no one version considerable that so renders it , as to make burnt-offerings to be freewil-offerings here , which are spoken of distinctly , and by themselves afterwards : and the chaldee paraphrast , ionathan thus explains , this is the law of the burnt-offering ; i. e. quod venit ad expiandum pro cogitationibus cordis ; but although the iews be not fully agreed , what the burnt-offerings were designed to expiate , yet they consent that they were of an expiatory nature . which might make us the more wonder , that crellius and others should exclude them from it , but the only reason given by him is , because they are distinguished from sacrifices for sin , as though no sacrifices were of an expiatory nature but they , and then the trespass-offerings must be excluded too , for they are distinguished from sin-offerings as well as the other . the ignorance of the iews in the reason of their own customs , hath been an occasion of great mistakes among christians , concerning the nature of them ; when they judge of them according to the blind or uncertain conjectures which they make concerning them : so that the text is oft-times far clearer than their commentaries are . setting aside then the intricate and unsatisfactory niceties of the iewish writers , about the several reasons of the burnt-offerings and sin and trespass-offerings , and the differences they make between them , which are so various and incoherent , i shall propose this conjecture concerning the different reasons of them , viz. that some sacrifices were assumed into the jewish religion , which had been long in use in the world before , and were common to them with the patriarchs , and all those who in that age of the world did fear and serve god , and such were the burnt-offerings for expiation of sin , and the fruits of the earth by way of gratitude to god. other sacrifices were instituted among them , with a particular respect to themselves , as a people governed by the laws of god : and these were of several sorts ; . symbolical , of gods presence among them , such was the daily sacrifice , instituted as a testimony of gods presence , exod. . from v. . to the end . . occasional , for some great mercies vouchsased to them , as the passover and the solemn festivals , &c. . expiatory , for the sins committed against their law : and these were of three sorts ; . such as were wholly consumed to the honor of god , which were the burnt-offerings . . such , of which some part was consumed upon the al●ar , and some part fell to the share of the priests ; and these were either sins particularly enumerated by god himself , under the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or else generally comprehended under the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as being allowed to be expiated , because committed through inadvertency . . such , whereof a less part was consumed , as in the peace-offerings of the congregation , mentioned levit. . . whereof the blood was sprinkled , only the inwards burnt , and the flesh not eaten by the persons that offered them , as it was in the peace-offerings of particular persons ( of which as being private sacrifices , i have here no occasion to speak ) but only by the priests in the court ; and these had something of expiation in them : for thence , saith vatablus , the peace offering was called by the greeks 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. expiatorium , and the lxx . commonly render it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and several of the iews think the reason of the name was , that it made peace between god and him that offered it : but the great reason i insist on , is , because all the things which were used in an expiatory sacrifice , were in this too ; the slaying of the beast , the sprinkling of the blood , and the consumption of some part of it upon the altar , as an oblation to god , which are the three ingredients of an expiatory sacrifice ; for the shedding of the blood , noted the bearing the punishment of our iniquity ; and , the sprinkling of it on the altar , and the consuming of the part of the sacrifice , or the whole there , that it was designed for the expiation of sin . from whence it follows , that the phrase of a sweet-smelling savour , being applied under the law to expiatory sacrifices , is very properly used by st. paul , concerning christs giving up himself for us : so that from this phrase , nothing can be inferred contrary to the expiatory nature of the death of christ , but rather it is fully agreeable to it . but crellius hath yet a farther argument , to prove that christs death cannot be here meant as the expiatory sacrifice ; viz. that the notion of a sacrifice , doth consist in the oblation whereby the thing is consecrated to the honour and service of god , to which the mactation is but a bare preparation ; which he proves , because the slaying the sacrifice might belong to others besides the priests , ezek. . , . but the oblation only to the priests . to this i answer , . the mactation may be considered two ways , either with a respect to the bare instrument of taking away the life , or to the design of the offerer of that which was to be sacrificed : as the mactation hath a respect only to the instruments , so it is no otherways to be considered than as a punishment ; but as it hath a respect to him that designs it for a sacrifice , so the shedding of the blood , hath an immediate influence on the expiation of sin . and that by this clear argument , the blood is said to make an atonement for the soul ; and the reason given is , because the life of the flesh is in the blood : so that which was the life , is the great thing which makes the atonement ; and when the blood was shed , the life was then given ; from whence it follows , that the great efficacy of the sacrifice for atonement lay in the shedding of the blood for that end . thence the apostle attributes remission of sins to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the shedding of the blood ; and not to the bare oblation of it on the altar , or the carrying it into the holy of holies , both which seem to be nothing else but a more solemn representation of that blood before god , which was already shed for the expiation of sins , which was therefore necessary to be performed , that the concurrence of the priest might be seen with the sacrifice in order to expiation . for if no more had been necessary but the bare slaying of the beasts , which was the meanest part of the service , the people would never have thought the institution of the priesthood necessary , and least of all that of the high-priest , unless some solemn action of his had been performed , such as the entring into the holy of holies , on the day of expiation , and carrying it , and sprinkling the blood of the sin offering in order to the expiation of the sins of the people . and it is observable , that although the levitical law be silent in the common sacrifices , who were to kill them whether the priests or the levites ; yet on that day whereon the high-priest was to appear himself for the expiation of sin , it is expresly said , that he should not only kill , the bullock of the sin-offering , which is for himself , but the goa● of the sin-offering , which is for the people . and although the talmudists dispute from their traditions on both sides , whether any one else might on the day of expiation , slay the sin-offerings besides the high-priest ; yet it is no news for them to dispute against the text , and the talmud it self is clear , that the high-priest did it . from whence it appears , there was something peculiar on that day as to the slaying of the sin-offerings ; and if our adversaries opinion hold good , that the sacrifices on the day of expiation did , i● not a●one , yet chiefly represent the sacrifice of christ , no greater argument can be brought against themselves than this is , for the office of the high-priest did not begin at his carrying the blood into the holy of holies , but the slaying the sacrifice did belong to him too : from whence it will unavoidably follow● , that christ did not enter upon his office of high-priest , when he entred into heaven , but when the sacrifice was to be be slain which was designed for the expiation of sins . it is then to no purpose at all , if crellius could prove that sometimes in ordinary sacrifices , ( which he will not say , the sacrifice of christ was represented by ) the levites might kill the beasts for sacrifice ; for it appears , that in these sacrifices , wherein themselves contend that christs was represented , the office of the high-priest did not begin with entring into the sanctuary , but with the mactation of that sacrifice whose blood was to be carried in thither . therefore if we ●peak of the bare instruments of mactation in the death of christ , those were the iews , and we make not them priests in it , for they aimed at no more than taking away his life ( as the popae among the romans , and those whose bare office it was to kill the beasts for sacrifice among the iews did : ) but if we consider it with a respect to him that offered up his life to god , then we say , that christ was the high-priest in doing it ; it being designed for the expiation of sin ; and by vertue of this bloodshed for that end , he enters into heaven as the holy of holies , there ever living to make intercession for us . but the vertue of the consequent acts , depends upon the efficacy of the blood shed for expiation ; otherwise the high-priest might have entred with the same effect into the holy of holies with any other blood besides that which was shed on purpose as a sin-offering , for expiation of the sins of the people ; which it was unlawful for him to do . and from hence it is , that the apostle to the hebrews insists so much on the comparison between the blood of christ , and the blood of the legal sacrifices , and the efficacy of the one far above the other , in its power of expiation ; which he needed not to have done , if the shedding of his blood , had been only a preparation for his entrance on his priesthood in heaven . so that the proper notion of a sacrifice for sin , as it notes the giving the life of one for the expiation of the sins of another , doth properly lye in the mactation , though other sacrificial acts may be consequent upon it . so it was in the animales hòstiae among the romans , in which , saith macrobius , sola anima deo sacratur : of which he tells us virgil properly speaks in those words , hanc tibi eryx meliorem animam pro morte daretis . and that we may the better understand what he means by the anima here , he saith elsewhere ( as macrobius and servius observe out of his excellent skill and accuracy in the pontifical rites ) sanguine placastis ventos & virgine caesa , cum primum iliacas danai venistic ad oras : sanguine quaerendi reditus , animaque litaendum argolica . which shews , that the expiation was supposed to lye in the blood which they called the soul , as the scripture doth . and the persians as strabo tells us , looked upon the bare mactation as the sacrifice , for they did not porricere as the romans called it , they laid none of the parts of the sacrifice upon the altar to be consumed there , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for god regarded nothing but the soul in the sacrifice : which words eustathius likewise useth upon homer ; of the sacrifices of the magi. and strabo affirms of the ancient lusitani , that they cut off nothing of the sacrifice : but consumed the entrals whole ; but though such sacrifices which were for divination were not thought expiatory , and therefore different from the animales hostiae , yet among the persians , every sacrifice had a respect to expiation of the whole people . for herodotus tells us , that every one that offers sacrifice among them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , prays for good to all persians and the king. but thus much may serve to prove against crellius , that the mactation in an expiatory sacrifice , was not a meer preparation to a sacrifice , but that it was a proper sacrificial act , and consequently that christ acted as high-priest , when he gave himself for us , an offering and a sacrifice to god for a sweet-smelling savour . but this will further appear from those places wherein christ is said to offer up himself once to god : the places to this purpose are . heb. . . who needeth not daily as those high-priests to offer up sacrifice , first for his own sins , and then for the peoples , for this he did once , when he offered up himself . heb. . . how much more shall the blood of christ , who through the eternal spirit offered himself without spot to god , purge your conscience from dead works , to serve the living god. v. , , , . nor yet that he should offer himself often , as the high-priest entreth into the holy place every year with the blood of others ; for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world : but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself . and as it is appointed to men once to dye , but after this the iudgement : so christ was once offered to bear the sins of many , and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation . heb. . , , . by the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of iesus christ once for all . and every high-priest , standeth daily ministring and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices , which can never take away sins : but this man after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever sate down on the right hand of god. to these places crellius gives this answer , that the name of oblation as applyed to christ , primarily signifies christs first entrance into heaven , and appearance before the face of god there , but consequently the continuance of that appearance ; so that when a thing is once actually exhibited and presented , it is said to be once offered , although being offered , it always remains in the same place , and so may be said to be a continual oblation . but this first appearance , saith he , hath a peculiar agreement with the legal oblation ; and therefore the name of oblation doth most ▪ properly belong to that , because christ by this means obtained that power on which the perfect remission of our sins depends : but although the continuance of that appearance , seems only consequentially to have the name of oblation belonging to it , yet in i●s own nature , it hath a nearer conjunction with the effect of the oblation , viz. the remission of sins , or deliverance from punishment , and doth of it self confer more to it than the other doth . and therefore in regard of that , christ is said most perfectly to exercise his priesthood , and to offer and intercede for us , from the time he is said to sit down at the right hand of god. against this answer , i shall prove these two things , . that it is incoherent , and repugnant to it self . . that it by no means agrees to the places before mentioned . . that it is incoherent and repugnant to it self in two things . . in making that to be the proper oblation in correspondency to the oblations of the law , which hath no immediate respect to the expiation of sins . . in making that to have the most immediate respect to the expiation of sins , which can in no tolerable sense be called an oblation . for the first , since crellius saith , that the proper notion of oblation is to be taken from the oblations in the levitical ●aw , we must consider what it was there , and whether christs first entrance into heaven can have any correspondency with it . an oblation under the law was in general , any thing which was immediately dedicated to god , but in a more limited sense it was proper to what was dedicated to him by way of sacrifice according to the appointments of the levitical law. we are not now enquiring what was properly called an oblation in other sacrifices , but in those which then were for expiation of sin ; and in the oblation was , first of the persons for whom the sacrifice was offered . so in the burnt-offering , the person who brought it , was to offer it at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation : i. e. as the iews expound it at the entrance of the court of the priests , and there he was to lay his hands upon the head of it , and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him . this offering was made before the beast was slain ; after the killing the beast , then the priests were to make an offering of the blood , by sprinkling it round about the altar of burnt-offerings , the rest of the blood , say the iews , was poured out by the priests , at the south-side of the altar upon the foundation , where the two holes were for the passage into the channel which conveyed the blood into the valley of kidron : thus the blood being offered , the parts of the beast , were by the priests to be laid upon the altar , and there they were all to be consumed by fire ; and then it was called an offering made by fire , of a sweet savour unto the lord. the same rites were used in the peace-offerings , and trespass-offerings , as to the laying on of hands , and the sprinkling the blood , and consuming some part by fire : and in the sin-offerings , there was to be the same imposition of hands : but concerning the sprinkling of the blood , and the way of consuming the remainders of the sacrifice , there was this considerable difference ; that in the common sin-offerings for particular persons , the blood was sprinkled upon the horns of the altar of burnt-offerings , but in the sin-offerings for the high-priest and the congregation , or all the people , he was to carry the blood within the sanctuary , and to sprinkle of it seven times before the vail of the sanctuary ; and some of the blood was to be put upon the horns of the altar of incense ; but the remainder of the blood , and the same things ( which were offered by fire in peace-offerings ) were to be disposed of accordingly , on the altar of burnt-offerings . and withal , there was this great difference , that in other sin-offerings the priests were to eat the remainder of the sacrifice in the holy place ; but in these there was nothing to be eaten by them ; for the whole bullock was to be carried forth without the camp , and there he was to be burned till all were consumed . for it was an express law , that no sin-offering , whereof any of the blood is brought into the tabernacle of the congregation , to reconcile withal in the holy-place , shall be eaten : it shall be burnt in the fire . all the difference that was on the great day of atonement , was this , that the high priest himself was to slay the sin-offerings , and then to carry the blood of them into the holy of holies , and there was to sprinkle the blood with his finger towards the mercy-seat seven times : after which , and the sending away the scape-goat , the ceremonies were the same for the atonement of the people , which were at other solemn sin-offerings , for the priest or the people . from all which being thus laid together , we shall observe several things , which are very material to our purpose : . that in the oblations which were made for expiation of sins , the difference between the mactation and the oblation , did arise from the difference between the priest and the sacrifice . for the priests office was to atone , but he was to atone by the sacrifice ; on which account , although the priest were to offer the sacrifice for himself , yet the oblation did not lie in the bare presenting himself before god , but in the presenting the blood of that sacrifice , which was shed in order to expiation . if we could have supposed , that the high-priest under the law , instead of offering a goat for a sin-offering for the people , on the day of atonement , should have made an oblation of himself to god , by dying for the expiation of their sins : in this case , his death being the sacrifice , and himself the priest , the mactation , as it relates to his own act , and his oblation had been one and the same thing . for his death had been nothing else , but the offering up himself to god , in order to the expiation of the sins of the people ; and there can be no reason , why the oblation must be of necessity something consequent to his death , since all things necessary to a perfect oblation do concur in it . for where there is something solemnly devoted to god , and in order to the expiation of sins , and by the hand of a priest , there are all things concurring to a legal oblation ; but in this case , all these things do concur , and therefore there can be no imaginable necessity of making the oblation of christ , only consequent to his ascension , since in his death all things concur to a proper oblation . in the law , we grant that the oblation made by the priest , was consequent to the death of the beast for sacrifice ; but the reason of that was , because the beast could not offer up it self to god , and god had made it necessary , that the priest should expiate sins , not by himself , but by those sacrifices , and therefore the oblation of the blood was after the sacrifice was slain ; neither could this have been solved barely by the priests slaying of the sacrifices ; for this being an act of violence towards the beasts that were thus killed , could not be a proper oblation , which must suppose a consent antecedent to it . all which shewed the great imperfection of the levitical law , in which so many several things were to concur , to make up a sacrifice for sin ; viz. the first offering made by the party concerned , of what was under his dominion ; viz. the beast to be sacrificed at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation : but the beast not being able to offer up it self , it was necessary for the offering up its blood , that it must be slain by others ; and for the better understanding , not only of the efficacy of the blood , but the concurrence of the priest for expiation , he was to take the blood , and sprinkle some of it on the altar , and pour out the rest at the foundation of it . but since we assert a far more noble and excellent sacrifice , by the son of god freely offering up himself , to be made a sacrifice for the sins of the world , why may not this be as proper an oblation made unto god , as any was under the law , and far more excellent , both in regard of the priest and the sacrifice : why should his oblation of himself then be made only consequent to his death and resurrection ? which ●latter , being by our adversaries made not his own act , but gods upon him , and his entrance into heaven , being given him ( as they assert ) as a reward of his sufferings , in what tolerable sense can that be called an oblation of himself , which was confer●ed upon him as a reward of his former sufferings ? from whence it follows , that upon our adversaries own grounds , the death of christ may far more properly be called the oblation of himself , than his entrance into heaven ; and that there is no necessity of making the oblation of christ consequent to his death , there being so great a difference between the sacrifice of christ , and that of the sacrifices for sin under the levitical law. . we observe , that the oblation as performed by the priest , did not depend upon his presenting himself before god , but upon the presenting the blood of a sacrifice , which had been already slain for the expiation of sins . if the priest had gone into the holy of holies , and there only presented himself before the mercy-seat , and that had been all required in order to the expiation of sins , there had been some pretence for our adversaries making christs presenting himself in heaven , to be the oblation of himself to god ; but under the law , the efficacy of the high-priests entrance into the holy of holies , did depend upon the blood which he carried in thither , which was the blood of the sin-offering , which was already slain for the expiation of sins : and in correspondency to this , christs efficacy in his entrance into heaven , as it respects our expiation , must have a respect to that sacrifice which was offered up to god antecedent to it . and i wonder our adversaries do so much insist on the high-priests entring into the most holy place once a year , as though all the expiation had depended upon that ; whereas all the promise of expiation , was not upon his bare entrance into it ; but upon the blood which he carried along with him , and sprinkled there : in correspondency to which , our saviour is not barely said , to enter into heaven , and present himself to god , but that he did this by his own blood , having obtained eternal redemption for us . . we observe , that there was something correspondent in the death of christ , to somewhat consequent to the oblation under the law , and therefore there can be no reason to suppose , that the oblation of christ must be consequent to his death : for that destroys the correspondency between them . now this appears in this particular , in the solemn sacrifices for sin , after the sprinkling of the blood , which was carried into the holy place to renconcile withal , all the remainder of the sacrifice was to be burnt without the camp , and this held on the day of atonement , as well as in other sin-offerings for the congregation . now the author to the hebrews tells us , that in correspondency to this , iesus that he might sanctifie the people with his own blood , suffered without the gate : what force is there in this , unless the blood of christ did answer to the sin-offerings for the people , and his oblation was supposed to be made before ; and therefore that he might have all things agreeable to those sin-offerings , the last part was to be compleated too ; viz. that he was to suffer without the gate ; which after the peoples settlement in ierusalem , answered to the being burnt without the camp in the wilderness . . we observe , that the oblation in expiatory sacrifices under the law , by the priest , had always relation to the consumption of what was offered : thus the offering of the blood , in token of the destruction of the life of the beast , whose blood was offered ; for no blood was to be offered of a living creature , nor of one killed upon any other account , but for that end to be a sacrifice for sin , and after the sprinkling and pouring out of the blood , the inwards of some , and all of the other , were to be consumed by fire . and it is observable , that the greater the sacrifice for sin was , always the more was consumed of it ; as appears plainly by the forementioned difference of the sin-offerings for private persons , and for the people ; of the former , the priests were allowed to eat , but not at all of the latter . and so it was observed among the egyptians , in the most solemn sacrifices for expiation , nothing was allowed to be eaten of that part which was designed for that end . for herodotus gives us an account why the egyptians never eat the head of any living creature ; which is , that when they offer up a sacrifice , they make a solemn execration upon it , that if any evil were to fall upon the persons who sacrificed , or upon all egypt , it might be turned upon the head of that beast : and plutarch adds , that after this solemn execration , they cut off the head , and of old , threw it into the river , but then gave it to strangers . from which custom we observe , that in a solemn sacrifice for expiation , the guilt of the offenders , was by this rite of execration supposed to be transferred upon the head of the sacrifice , as it was in the sacrifices among the jews , by the laying on of hands ; and that nothing was to be eaten of what was supposed to have that guilt transferred upon it . from hence all expiatory sacrifices were at first whole burnt-offerings , as appears by the patriarchal sacrifices , and the customs of other nations , and among the jews themselves , as we have already proved in all solemn offerings for the people . and although in the sacrifices of private persons , some parts were allowed to be eaten by the priests ; yet those which were designed for expiation were consumed . so that the greater the offering was to god , the more it implied the consumption of the thing which was so offered : how strangely improbable then is it , that the oblation of christ should not ( as under the law ) have respect to his death and sufferings ; but to his entrance into heaven , wherein nothing is supposed to be consumed , but all things given him with far greater power , as our adversaries suppose , than ever he had before . but we see the apostle parallels christs suffering with the burning of the sacrifices , and his blood with the blood of them , and consequently his offering up himself , must relate not to his entrance into heaven , but to that act of his whereby he suffered for sins , and offered up his blood as a sacrifice for the sins of the world . from all which it appears ; how far more agreeably to the oblations under the law , christ is said to offer up himself for the expiation of sins by his death and sufferings , than by his entrance into heaven ; for it is apparent , that the oblations in expiatory sacrifices under the law , were such upon which the expiation of sin did chiefly depend ; but by our adversaries own confession , christs oblation of himself by his entrance into heaven , hath no immediate respect at all to the expiation of sin : only as the way whereby he was to enjoy that power by which he did expiate sins , as crellius saith ; now , let us consider , what more propriety there is in making this presenting of christ in heaven to have a correspondency with the legal oblations , than the offering up himself upon the cross. for . on the very same reason that his entrance into heaven is made an oblation , his death is so too ; viz. because it was the way whereby he obtained the power of expiation ; and far more properly so than the other , since they make christs entrance and power the reward of his sufferings , but they never make his sitting at the right hand of god , the reward of his entrance into heaven . . his offering up himself to god upon the cross , was his own act , but his entrance into heaven was gods , as themselves acknowledge , and therefore could not in any propriety of speech be called christs offering up himself . . if it were his own act , it could not have that respect to the expiation of sins , which his death had ; for our adversaries say , that his death was by reason of our sins , and that he suffered to purge us from sin ; but his entrance into heaven was upon his own account , to enjoy that power and authority , which he was to have at the right hand of god. . how could christs entrance into heaven , be the way for his enjoying that power which was necessary for the expiation of sin , when christ before his entrance into heaven , saith , that all power was given to him in heaven and earth : and the reason assigned in scripture of that power and authority which god gave him is , because he humbled himself , and became obedient to death , even the death of the cross : so that the entrance of christ into heaven , could not be the means of obtaining that power which was conferred before ; but the death of christ is menti●ned on that account in scripture . . if the death of christ were no expiatory sacrifice , the entrance of christ into heaven could be no oblation proper to a high-priest ; for his entrance into the holy of holies , was on the account of the blood of the sin-offering which he carried in with him . if there were then no expiatory sacrifice before , that was slain for the sins of men ; christ could not be said to make any oblation in heaven , for the oblation had respect to a sacrifice already slain ; so that if men deny that christs death was a proper sacrifice for sin , he could make no oblation at all in heaven , and christ could not be said to enter thither , as the high-priest entred into the holy of holies with the blood of the sacrifice ; which is the thing which the author to the hebrews , asserts concerning christ. . there is as great an inconsistency in making the exercise of christs power in heaven , an oblation in any sense , as in making christs entrance into heaven , to be the oblation which had correspondency with the oblations of the law. for what is there which hath the least resemblance with an oblation in it ? hath it any respect to god , as all the legal oblations had ? no ; for his intercession and power , crellius saith , respects us , and not god. was there any sacrifice at all in it for expiation ? how is it possible , that the meer exercise of power should be called a sacrifice ? what analogy is there at all between them ? and how could he be then said most perfectly to exercise his priesthood , when there was no consideration at all of any sacrifice offered up to god ? so that upon these suppositions the author to the hebrews must argue upon strange similitudes , and fancy resemblances to himself , which it was impossible for the iews to understand him in , who were to judge of the nature of priesthood and oblations in a way agreeable to the institutions among themselves . but was it possible for them to understand such oblations and a priesthood which had no respect at all to god , but wholly to the people ; and such an entrance into the holy of holies without the blood of an expiatory sacrifice for the sins of the people ? but such absurdities do men betray themselves into , when they are forced to strain express places of scripture to serve an hypothesis , which they think themselves obliged to maintain . we now come to shew that this interpretation of crellius doth not agree with the circumstances of the places before mentioned , which will easily appear by these brief considerations . . that the apostle always speaks of the offering of christ as a thing past and once done , so as not to be done again ; which had been very improper , if by the oblation of christ , he had meant the continual appearance of christ in heaven for us , which yet is , and will never cease to be till all his enemies be made his foot-stool . . that he still speaks in allusion to the sacrifices which were in use among the iews , and therefore the oblation of christ must be in such a way as was agreeable to what was used in the levitical sacrifices , which we have already at large proved he could not do in our adversaries sense . that the apostle speaks of such a sacrifice for sins to which the sitting at the right hand of god was consequent ; so that the oblation antecedent to it must be properly that sacrifice for sins which he offered to god ; and therefore the exercise of his power for expiation of sins , which they say is meant by sitting at the right hand of god , cannot be that sacrifice for sins : neither can his entrance into heaven be it , which in what sense it can be called a sacrifice for sins , since themselves acknowledge it had no immediate relation to the expiation of them , i cannot understand . . the apostle speaks of such an offering of christ once , which if it had been repeated , doth imply , that christs sufferings must have been repeated too . for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world : but the repeated exercise of christs power in heaven doth imply no necessity at all of christs frequent suffering , nor his frequent entrance into heaven ; which might have been done without suffering , therefore it must be meant of such an offering up himself as was implyed in his death and sufferings . . he speaks of the offering up of that body which god gave him when he came into the world ; but our adversaries deny , that he carried the same body into heaven , and therefore he must speak not of an offering of christ in heaven , but what was performed here on earth . but here our adversaries have shewn us a tryal of their skill , when they tell us with much confidence that the world into which christ is here said to come , is not to be understood of this world , but of that to come , which is not only contrary to the general acceptation of the word when taken absolutely as it is here , but to the whole scope and design of the place . for he speaks of that world , wherein sacrifices and burnt-offerings were used , and the levitical law was observed , although not sufficient for perfect expiation , and so rejected for that end ; and withal he speaks of that world wherein the chearful obedience of christ to the will of his father was seen , for he saith , lo i come to do thy will o god , which is repeated afterwards ; but will they say , that this world was not the place into which christ came to obey the will of his father ? and how could it be so properly said of the future world , lo i come to do thy will ; when they make the design of his ascension to be the receiving the reward of his doing and suffering the will of god upon earth ? but yet they attempt to prove from the same author to the hebrews , that christs entrance into heaven , was necessary to his being a perfect high-priest ; for he was to be made higher than the heavens ; and if he were on earth , he should not be a priest ; but he was a priest after the power of an endless life : neither could he , say they , be a perfect high-priest , till those words were spoken to him , thou art my son , this day have i begotten thee ; which as appears by other places , was after the resurrection : but all the sufferings he underwent in the world , were only to qualifie him for this office in heaven ; therefore it is said , that in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren , that he might be a merciful and faithful high-priest , &c. this is the substance of what is produced by crellius and his brethren , to prove that christ did not become a perfect high-priest , till he entred into heaven : but it were worth the knowing , what they mean by a perfect high-priest ; is it that christ did then begin the office of a high-priest , and that he made no offering at all before ? no , that they dare not assert at last , but that there was no perfect sacrifice offered for sin , otherwise s●cinus contends , that christ did offer upon earth , and that for himself too : so that all kind of offering is not excluded by themselves , before christs entrance into heaven : but if they mean by perfect high-priest in heaven , that his office of high-priest was not consummated by what he did on earth , but that a very considerable part of the priest-hood of christ was still remaining to be performed in heaven ; it is no more than we do freely acknowledge , and this is all we say is meant by those places : for the apostles design is to prove , the excellency of the priest-hood of christ above the aaronical ; which he doth , not only from the excellency of the sacrifice which he offered , above the blood of bulls and goats ; but from the excellency of the priest , who did ex●el the aaronical priests ; both in regard of his calling from god , which is all the apostle designs , heb . . not at all intending to determine the time when he was made , but by whom he was made high-priest , even by him that had said , thou art my son , &c. and in regard of the excellency of the sanctuary which he ent●ed into , which was not an earthly , but ia heavenly sanctu●ry ; and in regard of the perpetuity of his function there , not g●…ing in once a year , as the high-priests under the law did , but there ever living to make intercession for us : now this being the apostles design , we may easily understand why he saith , that he was to be a heavenly high-priest , and if he had been on earth , he could not have been a priest : the meaning of which is only this , that if christs office had ended in what he did on earth , he would not have had such an excellency as he was speaking of ; for then he had ceased to be at all such a high-priest , having no holy of holies to go into , which should as much transcend the earthly sanctuary , as his sacrifice did the blood of bulls and goats : therefore in correspondency to that priesthood , which he did so far excell in all the parts of it , he was not to end his priesthood meerly with the blood which was shed for a sacrifice , but he was to carry it into heaven , and present it before god , and to be a perpetual intercessor in the behalf of his people : and so was in regard of the perpetuity of his office , a priest after the law of an endlesslife : but lest the pe●ple should imagine , that so great and excellent a high-priest , being so far exalted above them , should have no sense or compassion upon the infirmities of his people , therefore to encourage them to adhere to him , he tells them , that he was made like to his brethren ; and therefore they need not doubt , but by the sense which he had of the infirmities of humane nature , he will have pity on the weaknesses of his people ; which is all the apostle means by those expressions . so that none of these places do destroy the priesthood of christ on earth , but only assert the excellency , and the continuance of it in heaven : which latter , we are as far from denying , as our adversaries are from granting the former . and thus much may suffice for the second thing , to prove the death of christ a proper sacrifice for sin ; viz. the oblation which christ made of himself to god by it . chap. vi. that the effects of proper expiatory sacrifices belong to the death of christ , which either respect the sin or the person . of the true notion of expiation of sin , as attributed to sacrifices . of the importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as applied to them . socinus his proper sense of it examined . crellius his objections answered . the iews notion of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the sacrifices not bare conditions of pardon , nor expiated meerly as a slight part of obedience . gods expiating sin , destroys not expiation by sacrifice . the importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , relating to sacrifices . expiation attributed to the sacrifice of christ , in the same sense that it was to other sacrifices : and from thence , and the places of scripture which mention it , proved not to be meerly declarative . if it had been so , it had more properly belonged to his resurrection than his death . the death of christ not taken metonymically for all the consequents of it ; because of the peculiar effects of the death of christ in scripture , and because expiation is attributed to him antecedently to his entrance into heaven . no distinction in scripture of the effects of christs entrance into heaven from his sitting at the right hand of god. the effects of an expiatory sacrifice , respecting the person , belong to the death of christ , which are atonement and reconciliation . of the signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the reconciliation by christs death , doth not meerly respect us , but god ; why the latter lessused in the now testament . atwofold reconciliation with god mentioned in scripture . crellius his evasion answered . the objections from gods being reconciled in the sending his son , and the inconsistency of the freeness of grace with the doctrine of satisfaction answered , and the whole concluded . the last thing to prove the death of christ a proper expiatory sacrifice , is , that the effects of a proper sacrifice for sin are attributed to it . which do either respect the sins committed , and are then called expiation and remission , or the persons who were guilty of them , as they stand obnoxious to the displeasure of god , and so the effect of them is atonement and reconciliation . now these we shall prove do most properly and immediately refer to the death of christ ; and are attributed to it , as the procuring cause of them ; and not as a bare condition of christs entrance into heaven , or as comprehending in it the consequents of it . i begin with the expiation and remission of sins ; as to which socinus doth acknowledge , that the great correspondency doth lie between christs and the legal sacrifices . we are therefore to enquire : . what respect the expiation of sins had to the sacrifices under the law. . in what sense the expiation of sins in attributed to the sacrifice of christ : for the due explication of the respect which expiation of sins had to the legal sacrifices , we are to consider in what sense expiation is understood , and in what respect it is attributed to them . for this we are to enquire into the importance of the several phrases it is set sorth by , which are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the old testament , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the new ; all which are acknowledged by our adversaries to have a peculiar respect to the expiation made by a sacrifice . we shall begin with the former , because crellius objects this against grotius , that he imployed his greatest diligence in the explication of the greek and latin words for expiation of sin , and was contented only to say , that the hebrew words would bear the same signification : whereas , saith he , he ought to have proved , that the hebrew words do require that sense which he takes them in . but by crellius his leave , grotius took the best course was to be taken in words , whose signification is so obscure as those are in the hebrew language . for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being so very rarely used in scripture in that which socinus and crellius contend to be the proper and natural signification of it ; viz. to hide or cover , and so frequently in the sense of expiation , what better way could be taken for determining the sense of it , as applied to sacrifices , than by insisting upon those words which are used in the new-testament , to the very same purpose that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used in the old ? for they cannot pretend that which they say is the most proper sense , can be applied to this subject , viz. to cover with pitch , or a bituminous matter , which is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gen. . . therefore it must of necessity be taken in another sense here . but socinus contends , that it ought to be taken in a sense most agreeable to that , which is , saith he , that the expiation of sin be nothing else , but the covering of it , by gods grace and benignity . thence , saith he , david saith , blessed is the man whose iniquity is covered . but how can this prove , that the proper signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as applied to sin , is covering by gods grace , when neither the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is here used , nor is there any respect at all mentioned of an expiation by sacrifice , which is the thing we are discoursing of ? and is the covering of sin such an easie and intelligible phrase , that this should be made choice of to explain the difficulty of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by ? what is it that they would have us understand by the covering sin ? surely not to make it stronger and more lasting , as the ark was covered , with that bituminous matter for that end , and yet this would come the nearest to the proper sense of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so that from their own interpretation it appears , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as applied to the expiation of sin by sacrifices , cannot be taken so much as in allusion to that other sense ; for their sense of expiation , is either by the destruction of sin , or deliverance of the sinner from the punishment of it , but what resemblance is there between the covering of a thing , in order to its preservation , and the making it not to be , or at least destroying all the power of it ? but supposing we should grant that it hath some allusion to the sense of covering , why must it necessarily be supposed to be done by the meer grace of god , as excluding all antecedent causes which should move to it ? would not the propriety of the sense remain as well , supposing a moving cause , as excluding it ? what should hinder , but that god may be said as well to cover sin upon a sacrifice as to forgive it , and this is very frequently used upon a sacrifice , that the sin shall be forgiven ? but yet themselves acknowledge , that the sacrifices were conditions required in order to expiation ; if then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath an immediate respect to gods immediate favour and benignity , how comes it to be used where a condition is necessarily supposed in order to it ? had it not been more agreeable to this benignity of god to have pardon'd sin without requiring any sacrifice for it , than so strictly insisting upon the offering up sacrifice in order to it , and then declaring that the sin is expiated , and it should be forgiven ? from hence we see that there is no necessity why 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should be used as applyed to sacrifices in a sense most agreeable to that of covering with pitch , nor that it is not possible it should have such a sense when applyed to sins ; and withal that it is very consistent with an antecedent condition to it , and therefore can by no means destroy satisfaction . yes , saith crellius , it doth , for expiation is explained in the law by non-imputation , deut. . . be merciful , o lord , unto thy people israel wh●m thou hast redeemed , and lay not innocent blood unto thy people of israels charge ; and the blood shall be forgiven them . but not to impute , saith he , and to receive true and full satisfaction overthrow each other : and so expiation being the same with that , will overthrow it too . to this i answer , . i grant that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is here used both as applyed to god , and to the sin , and that the sense of it is used as to the people , when the prayer is , that god would not lay it to their charge , which is the same with expiating of it . . we are to consider , what the foundation of this prayer was , viz. the slaying of the heifer for expiation of the uncertain murder ; and when the elders had washed their hands over the head of the heifer , then they were to protest their own innocency , and to use this prayer . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 expiate thy people israel , &c. i. e. accept of this sacrifice as an expiation for them , and so charge not on them the innocent blood , &c. and upon doing of this it is said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the blood shall be expiated , i. e. as the vulgar latin explain it , the guilt of the blood shall be taken from them . but how then should the expiating sin upon a sacrifice slain in order thereto , dest●oy that satisfaction which we assert by the blood of christ being shed in order to the expiation of our sins ? nay , it much rather sheweth the consistency and agreeableness of these one with another . for we have before proved , that the sacrifice here did expiate the sin by a substitution , and bearing the guilt which could not have been expiated without it . but crellius further urgeth , that god himself is here said to expiate , and therefore to expiate cannot signifie to attone or satisfie ; in which sense christ may be said to expiate too , not by atoning or satisfying , but by not imputing sins , or taking away the punishment of them by his power . to which we need no other answer than what crellius himself elsewhere gives , viz. that socinus never denyes but that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signifie to appease or atone ; which is most evi●ently proved from the place mention'd by grotius , gen. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 expiabo faciem ejus in munere , saith the interlineary version , placabo illum muneribus , the vulg. lat. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the lxx . and all the circumstances of the place make it appear to be meant in the proper sense of appeasing the anger of a person by something which may move him to shew favour . and if crellius will yield this to be the sense of expiation as applyed to the sacrifice of christ , he need not quarrel with the word satisfaction . but why should he rather attribute that sense of expiation to christ , which is alone given to god , wherein the expiation is attributed to him that receives the sacrifice : rather than to him that offers the sacrifice in order to the atonement of another ? since it is acknowledged that christ did offer a sacrifice ; and therefore there can be no reason why that sense of expiation should not belong to him , which was most peculiar to that ; which we shall now shew to be of the same kind with what is here mentioned , viz. an appeasing by a gift offered up to god. so we find the word used to the same sense , sam. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and wherewith shall i make the atonement , i. e. wherewith shall i satisfie you for all the wrong which saul hath done unto you ? and we see afterwards it was by the death of sauls sons . in which place it cannot be denyed but that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not only signifies to appease , but such a kind of satisfaction as is by the death of some for the faults of others ; and so comes home , not only to the importance of the expiation belonging to a sacrifice in general ; but to such a kind of expiation as is by the suffering of some in the place of others . which though it be more clear and distinct , where one man suffers for others , yet this was sufficiently represented in the sacrifices under the law , in which we have already proved that there was a substitution of them in the place of the offenders . and in this sense the iews themselves do understand 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 viz. such an expiation as is made by the substitution of one in the place of another . of which many instances are collected by buxtorf , wherein 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is taken by the rabbinical writers for such an expiation , whereby one was to undergo a punishment in the place of another . so when in the title sanhedrin the people say to the high-priest 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 simus nos expiatio tua , let us be for an expiation for you , the gloss explains it thus , hoc est , in nobis fiat expiatio tua , nosque subeamus tuo locò quicquid tibi evenire debet . and when they tell us how children ought to honour their parents after their death , they say when they recite any memorable speech of their fathers , they are not barely to say , my father said so : but my lord and father said so , would i had been the expiation of his death : i. e. as they explain it themselves . would i had undergone what he did , and they give this general rule , where ever it is said , behold i am for expiation , it is to be understood , behold i am in the place of another to bear his iniquities . so that this signifies the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or a price of redemption for others . hence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is taken for a price of redemption of the life of another , and rendred by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , exod. . . — . . numb . . , . where we render it satisfaction , and by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , psal. . . and thereby we fully understand , what our saviour meant when he said , that he gave his soul , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a ransome for many , and to this day the iews call the cock which they kill for expiation on the day of atonement , by the name of cappara ; and when they beat the cock against their heads thrice , they every time use words to this purpose , let this cock be an exchange for me , let him be in my room , and be made an expiation for me ; let death come to him , but to me and all israel life and happiness . i insist on these things , only to let us understand , that the iews never understood 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the sense our adversaries contend for , when applyed to an expiatory sacrifice , but as implying a commutation , and a substitution of one in the place of another , so as by the punishment of that , the other in whose room he suffers , may obtain deliverance . which is the sense we plead for . but the utmost which socinus and crellius will allow to the sacrifices in order to expiation , is barely this , that the offering of them is to be considered as a meer condition ( that hath no other respect to the expiation of sins , than the paring a mans nails would have had , if god had required it ) upon which slight obedience , the pardon of some light sins might be obtained . but can any one imagine , that this was all that was designed by the sacrifices of old , who considers the antiquity and universality of them in the world in those elder times before the law , the great severity by which they were required under the law , the punctual prescriptions that were made in all circumstances for them , the vast and almost inestimable expence the people were at about them , but above all , the reason that god himself assigns in the law , that the blood was given for expiation , because it was the life ; and the correspondency so clearly expressed in the new testament , between the sacrifice of christ , and those levitical sacrifices ? can any one , i say , imagine upon these considerations , that the sacrifices had no other respect to the expiation of sin , than as they were a slight testimony of their obedience to god ? why were not an inward sorrow for sin , and tears and prayers rather made the only conditions of expiation , than such a burthensome and chargeable service imposed upon them , which at last signified nothing , but that a command being supposed , they would have sinned if they had broken it ? but upon our supposition , a reasonable account is given of all the expiatory sacrifices ; viz. that god would have them see , how highly he esteemed his laws , because an expiation was not to be made for the breach of them , but by the sacrificing of the life of some creature which he should appoint in stead of the death of the offender ; and if the breach of those laws which he had given them must require such an expiation , what might they then think would the sins of the whole world do , which must be expiated by a sacrifice infinitely greater than all those put together were ; viz. the death and sufferings of the son of god for the sins of men ? but if the offering sacrifice had been a bare condition required of the person who committed the fault , in order to expiation ; why is it never said , that the person who offered it , did expiate his own fault thereby ? for that had been the most proper sense ; for if the expiation did depend on the offering the sacrifice , as on the condition of it , then the performing the condition , gave him an immediate right to the benefit of the promise . if it be said , that his own act was not only necessary in bringing the sacrifice , but the priests also in offering up the blood : this will not make it at all the more reasonable ; because the pardon of sin should not only depend upon a mans own act , but upon the act of another , which he could not in reason be accountable for , if he miscarried in it . if the priest should refuse to do his part , or be unfit to do it , or break some law in the doing of it , how hard would it seem that a mans sins could not be expiated , when he had done all that lay in his own power in order to the expiation of them , but that another person , whose actions he had no command over , neglected the doing his duty ? so that if the sacrifice had no other influence on expiation , but as a part of obedience , in all reason the expiation should have depended on no other conditions but such as were under the power of him , whose sins were to be expiated by it . but crellius urgeth against our sense of expiation , that if it were by substitution , then the expiation would be most properly attributed to the sacrifices themselves ; whereas it is only said , that by the sacrifices the expiation is obtained , but that god or the priest do expiate ; and to god it belongs properly , because he takes away the guilt and punishment of sin ; which is , saith he , all meant by expiation ; to the priest only consequently , as doing what god requires in order to it ; and to the sacrifices only as the conditions by which it was obtained . but if the expiation doth properly belong to god , and implies no more than bare pardon , it is hard to conceive that it should have any necessary relation to the blood of the sacrifice : but the apostle to the hebrews tells us , that remission had a necessary respect to the shedding of blood , so that without that there was no remission . how improperly doth the apostle discourse throughout that chapter , wherein he speaks so much concerning the blood of the sacrifices purisying , and in correspondency to that , the blood of christ purging our consciences ; and that all things under the law ; were purified with blood ; had all this no other significati●n , but that this was a bare condition that had no other importance , but as a meer act of obedience when god had required it ? why doth not the apostle rather say , without gods favour there is no remission , than without the shedding of blood ; if all the expiation did pr●perly belong to that , and only very remotely to the blood of the sacrifice ? what imaginable necessity was there , that christ must shed his blood in order to the expiation of our sins , if all that blo●d of the legal sacrifices did signifie no more than a bare condition of pardon , though a slight part of obedience in it self ? why must christ lay down his life in correspondency to these levitical sacrifices ? for that was surely no slight part of his obedience . why might not this condition have been dispensed with in him , since our adversaries say , that in it self it hath no proper efficacy on the expiation of sin ? and doth not this speak the greatest repugnancy to the kindness and grace of god in the gospel , that he would not dispense with the ignominious death of his son , although he knew it could have no influence of it self on the expiation of the sins of the world ? but upon this supposition , that the blood of sacrifices under the law had no proper influence upon expiation , the apostles discourse proceeds upon weak and insufficient grounds . for what necessity in the thing was there , because the blood of the sacrifices was made a condition of pardon under the law , therefore the blood of christ must be so now ; although in it self it hath no proper efficacy for that end ? but the apostles words and way of argumentation doth imply , that there was a peculiar efficacy both in the one and the other , in order to expiation ; although a far greater in the blood of christ , than could be in the other ; as the thing typified , ought to exceed that which was the representation of it . from hence we see , that the apostle attributes what expiation there was under the law , not immediately to god , as belonging properly to him , but to the blood of bulls and goats , and the ashes of an heifer , sprinkling the unclean . which he had very great reason to do , since god expresly saith to the iews , that the blood was given them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ad expiandum , to expiate for their souls , for the blood 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shall expiate the soul. than which words , nothing could have been more plainly said to overthrow crellius his assertion , that expiation is not properly or chiefly attributed to the sacrifices , but primarily to god , and consequentially to the priest : who is never said to expiate , but by the sacrifice which he offered , so that his office was barely ministerial in it . but from this we may easily understand , in what sense god is said to expiate sins , where it hath respect to a sacrifice ( which is that we are now discoursing of , and not in any larger or more improper use of the word ) for since god himself hath declared , that the blood was given for expiation , the expiation which belongs to god , must imply his acceptance of it for that end , for which it was offered . for the execution or discharge of the punishment belonging to him , he may be said in that sense to expiate , because it is only in his power to discharge the sinner from that obligation to punishment he lies under by his sins . and we do not say , that where expiating is attributed to him that accepts the atonement , that it doth imply his undergoing any punishment which is impossible to suppose ; but that where it is attributed to a sacrifice , as the means of atonement , there we say it doth not imply a bare condition , but such a substitution of one in the place of another , that on the account of that , the fault of the offender himself is expiated thereby . and to this sense the other word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth very well agree ; for socinus and crellius cannot deny , but that gen. . . it properly signifies luere , or to bear punishment ; although they say , it no where else signifies so , and the reason is , because it is applyed to the altar , and such other things , which are not capable of it ; but doth it hence follow , that it should not retain that signification where the matter will bear it , as in the case of sacrifices . and although it be frequently rendred by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , yet that will be no prejudice to the sense we plead for in respect of sacrifices , because those words when used concerning them , do signifie expiation too . grotius proves , that they do from their own nature and constant use in greek authors , not only signifie an antecedency of order , but a peculiar efficacy in order to expiation . thence expiatory sacrifices among the greeks were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , frequently in homer , applied to sacrifices , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in plutarch , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used in the same sense ; an expiatory sacrifice in herodotus is call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and to the same purpose it is used in hermogenes , plato and plutarch : as among the latins , placare , purgare , purificare , conciliare , lustrare in the same sense , and piare when used in sacrifices , he proves to signifie luere per successionem rei alterius in locum poenae debitae . thence piaculum used for an expiatory sacrifice , and expiare is to appease by such a sacrifice , so cereris numen expiare is used in cicero ; filium expiare in livy . so that all these sacrifices among them , were supposed still to pertain to the atoning the deity , and obtaining a remission of sins committed by them . and from hence ( because where there was a greater equality and nearness , there might be the greater efficacy of the sacrifice for expiation ) came the custome of sacrificing men , which grotius at large shews to have almost universally obtained before the coming of christ. we are now to consider what crellius answers to this ; the substance of which lies in these two things , . he denies not but that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do in their proper use in the greek tongue signifie the purging of guilt , and the aversion of the wrath of god and punishment , but that those and such other words are attributed to sacrifices , because those were supposed to be the effects of them among the heathens ; but the attributing such effects to them , did arise from their superstition , whereby greater things were attributed to sacrifices , than god would have given to them , either before or under the law. . he denyes not , but that those words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being used by the author to the hebrews more than once with respect to the sacrifices and priesth●od of christ , were taken in the same sense in which they are used in the greek tongue , viz. for the purging of guilt , and the aversion of the wrath of god , and the punishment consequent upon it : but all that he contends for is , that there is a difference in the manner of effecting it , which he acknowledges the words themselves do not imply ; and the reasons he gives for it are , that the other were proper , but christs an improper sacrifice ; and that the other sacrifices were offered by men to god , but the sacrifice of christ was given by god to men , and therefore he must be supposed to be reconciled before . from whence he would at least have other senses of these words joyned together with the former ; viz. either for purging away the filth of sin , or for a declaration of a deliverance from guilt and punishment , in imitation of the idiome of the hebrew , in which many words are used in the new testament . from hence it follows , that crellius doth yield the main cause , if it appear , that christ did offer up an expiatory sacrifice to god in his death , for then he grants that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being applyed to the sacrifice of christ , are to be taken for the purging away of guilt , and the aversion of the wrath of god , and the punishment of sin . and it is to no purpose to say , that it is not a proper sacrifice , for if the effects of a proper sacrifice do belong to it , that proves that it is so ; for these words being acknowledged to be applyed to the sacrifice of christ by the author to the hebrews , what could more evince that christs was a proper sacrifice , than that those things are attributed to it , which by the consent of all nations , are said to belong to proper sacrifices , and that in the very same sense in which they are used by those who understood them in the most proper sense . and what reason could crellius have to say , that it was only the superstition of the heathens , which made them attribute such effects to sacrifices ; when himself acknowledges that the very same sense doth belong to the sacrifice of christ under that notion ? and as to the iews we have already proved that the sense of expiation among them was by vertue of the law to be taken in as proper a sense as among the heathens , for the purging of guilt , and the aversion of the wrath of god. and why should crellius deny that effect of the sacrifice of christ as to the atonement of god , because gods love was seen in giving him who was to offer the sacrifice ? since that effect is attributed to those sacrifices under the law which god himself appointed to be offered , and shewed his great kindness to the people in the institution of such a way , whereby their sins might be expiated , and they delivered from the punishment of them . but of the consistency of these two , i shall speak more afterwards , in the effect of the sacrifices as relating to persons . we now come to consider in what sense the expiation of sins is in scripture attributed to the sacrifice of christ , and therein i shall prove these two things . . that the expiation is attributed to the sacrifice of christ in the same sense that is attributed to other sacrifices , and as the words in themselves do signifie . . that what is so attributed doth belong to the sacrifice of christ in his death , antecedent to his entrance into heaven . . that the expiation is to be taken in a proper sense , when it is attributed to the sacrifice of christ. crellius tells us , the controversie is not about the thing , viz. whether expiation in the sense we take it in for purging away guilt , and aversion of the wrath of god , doth belong to the sacrifice of christ , for he acknowledges it doth ; but all the question is about the manner of it : which in the next section he thus explains : there are three senses in which christ may be said to expiate sins ; either by begetting faith in us , whereby we are drawn off from the practice of sin , in which sense , he saith , it is a remoter antecedent to it ; or as it relates to the expiation by actual deliverance from punishment , so he saith , it is an immediate antecedent to it : or as he declares that they are expiated , but this , he saith , doth not so properly relate to christ as a sacrifice , but as a priest. but never a one of these senses comes near to that which crellius grants to be the proper importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as applyed to a sacrifice , viz. the purging away guilt , and the aversion of the wrath of god , and punishment , not any way , but by the means of the sacrifice offered . for in the legal sacrifices nothing can be more plain than that the expiation was to be by the sacrifice offered for atonement : supposing then that in some other way ( which could be by no means proper to those sacrifices ) christ may be said to expiate sins , what doth this prove that there was an expiation belonging to his sacrifice agreeable to the sacrifices of old ? but as i urged before in the case of christs being high-priest , that by their assertions the iews might utte●ly deny the force of any argument used by the author to the hebrews to prove it : so i say as to the expiation by christs sacrifice , that it hath no analogy or correspondency at all with any sacrifice that was ever offered for the expiation of sins . for by that they always understood something which was immediately offered to god for that end , upon which they obtained remission of sins ; but here is nothing answerable to it in their sense of christs sacrifice ; for here is no oblation at all made unto god for this end ; all the efficacy of the sacrifice of christ , in order to expiation doth wholly and immediately respect us ; so that if it be a proper sacrifice to any , it must be a sacrifice to us , and not to god : for a sacrifice is always said to be made to him whom it doth immediately respect ; but christ in the planting faith , in actual deliverance , in declaring to us this deliverance , doth wholly respect us , and therefore his sacrifice must be made to men , and not to god. which is in it self a gross absurdity , and repugnant to the nature and design of sacrifices from the first institution of them ; which were always esteemed such immediate parts of divine worship , that they ought to respect none else but god , as the object to which they were directed , though for the benefit and advantage of mankind . as well then might christ be said to pray for us , and by that no more be meant but that he doth teach us to understand our duty ; as be made an expiatory sacrifice for us , and all the effect of it only respect us and not god. and this is so far from adding to the perfection of christs sacrifice above the legal ( which is the thing pleaded by crellius ) that it destroys the very nature of a sacrifice , if such a way of expiation be attributed to it ( which though conceived to be more excellent in it self ) yet is wholly incongruous to the end and design of a sacrifice for expiation . and the excellency of the manner of expiation ought to be in the same kind , and not quite of another nature ; for , will any one say , that a general of an army hath a more excellent conduct than all that went before him , because he can make finer speeches ; or that the assomanaean family discharged the office of priesthood best , because they had a greater power over the people ; or that nero was the most excellent emperour of rome because he excelled the rest in musick and poetry : by which we see that to assert an excellency of one above another , we must not go to another kind , but shew its excellency in that wherein the comparison lies : so that this doth not prove the excellency of the sacrifice of christ , because he hath a greater power to perswade , deliver and govern , than any sacrifice under the law ; for these are things quite of another nature from the consideration of a sacrifice : but therein the excellency of a sacrifice is to be demonstrated , that it excells all other in the proper end and dedesign of a sacrifice , i. e. if it be more effectual towards god for obtaining the expiation of sin ; which was always thought to be the proper end of all sacrifices for expiation . although then christ may be allowed to excell all other sacrifices in all imaginable respects but that which is the proper intention of a sacrifice ; it may prove far greater excellency in christ , but it doth withal prove a greater imperfection in his sacrifice , if it fail in that which is the proper end of it . so that if we should grant that the expiation attributed to christs sacrifice signified no more than reclaiming men from their sins , or their deliverance by his power , or a declaration of gods decree to pardon , this may prove that there are better arguments to believe the remission of sins now under the gospel ; but they do not in the least prove that christ is to be considered as a sacrifice ; much less that he doth far excell in the notion of an expiatory sacrifice all those which were offered up to god for that end under the law. but we must now further consider , whether this be all attributed to christ in order to expiation in scripture ; i. e. whether those words which of themselves do imply the aversion of the wrath of god , when used concerning other sacrifices , when applied to the sacrifice of christ , do only imply the begetting faith in us , or a declaration of pardon . the words which are used to this purpose , are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which are all applied to the blood of christ , and the dispute is , whether they signifie no more but a declaration of pardon , or a means to beget saith in us . the first words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 crellius acknowledgeth do frequently signifie deliverance from guilt and punishment ; but , he saith , they may likewise signifie a declaration of that deliverance , as decreed by god , or a purging from the sins themselves , or from the custom of sinning . so that by crellius his own confession , the sense we contend for is most proper and usual , the other are more remote , and only possible ; why then should we forsake the former sense , which doth most perfectly agree to the nature of a sacrifice , which the other senses have no such relation to , as that hath ? for these being the words made use of in the new testament , to imply the force and efficacy of a sacrifice , why should they not be understood in the same sense which the hebrew words were taken in , when they are applied to the sacrifices under the law ? we are not enquiring into all possible senses of words , but into the most natural and agreeable to the scope of them that use them : and that we shall make it appear to be the same , we plead for in the places in dispute between us ; as , john . . the blood of iesus christ his son , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , purgeth us from all sin , heb. . , . if the blood of bulls , and of goats , and the ashes of an heifer , sprinkling the unclean , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh : how much more shall the blood of christ purge your consciences from dead works , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , heb. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when he had by himself purged our sins . so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are used with a respect to the blood of christ , heb. . . apocalip . . . and because remission of sin was looked on as the consequent of expiation by sacrifice under the law ; therefore that is likewise attributed to the blood of christ , matth. . , this is the blood of the new testament which was shed for many , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the remission of sins , eph. . . in whom we have redemption through his blood , the remission of sins , and to the same purpose , coloss. . . and from hence we are said to be justified by his blood , rom. . . and christ is said to be a propitiation through faith in his blood , rom. . . the substance of all that crellius replies to these places is , that those words which do properly signifie the thing it self , may very conveniently be taken only for the declaration of it , when the performance of the thing doth follow by vertue of that declartaion : which then happens , when the declaration is made of the thing decreed by another , and that in the name and by the command of him who did decree it . and in this sense , christ by his blood may be said to deliver us from the punishment of our sins , by declaring or testifying to us the will and decree of god for that purpose . but this answer is by no means sufficient , upon these considerations ; . because it doth not reach the proper and natural sense of the words , as crellius himself confesseth ; and yet he assigns no reason at all , why we ought to depart from it , unless the bare possibility of another meaning be sufficient . but how had it been possible for the efficacy of the blood of christ for purging away the guilt of our sins , to have been expressed in clearer and plainer terms than these , which are acknowledged of themselves to signifie as much as we assert ? if the most proper expressions for this purpose , are not of force enough to perswade our adversaries , none else could ever do it : so that it had been impossible for our doctrine to have been delivered in such terms , but they would have found out ways to evade the meaning of them . it seems very strange , that so great an efficacy should not only once or twice , but so frequently be attributed to the blood of christ for expiation of sin , if nothing else were meant by it , but that christ by his death did only declare that god was willing to pardon sin ? if there were danger in understanding the words in their proper sense , why are they so frequently used to this purpose ? why are there no other places of scripture that might help to undeceive us , and tell us plainly , that christ dyed only to declare his fathers will ? but what ever other words might signifie , this was the only true meaning of them . but what miserable shifts are these , when men are forced to put off such texts which are confessed to express our doctrine , only by saying that they may be otherwise understood ? which destroys all kind of certainty in words ; which by reason of the various use of them , may be interpreted to so many several senses , that if this liberty be allowed , upon no other pretence , but that another meaning is possible , men will never agree about the intention of any person in speaking . for upon the same reason , if it had been said , that christ declared by his death gods readiness to pardon , it might have been interpreted , that the blood of christ was therefore the declaration of gods readiness to pardon , because it was the consideration upon which god would do it : so that if the words had been as express for them , as they are now against them , according to their way of answering places , they would have been reconcileable to our opinion . . the scripture in these expressionś , doth attribute something peculiar to the blood of christ ; but if all that were meant by it were no more , than the declaring gods will to pardon , this could in no sense be said to be peculiar to it . for this was the design of the doctrine of christ , and all his miracles were wrought to confirm the truth of that part of his doctrine , which concerned remission of sins as well as any other : but how absurd would it have been to say , that the miracles of christ purge us from all sin , that through christ healing the sick , raising the dead , &c. we have redemption , even the forgiveness of sins , which are attributed to the blood of christ ? but if in no other respect , than as a testimony to the truth of the doctrine of remission of sins , they were equally applicable to one as to the other . besides , if this had been all intended in these expressions , they were the most incongruously applied to the blood of christ ; nothing seeming more repugnant to the doctrine of the remission of sins , which was declared by it , than that very thing by which it was declared , if no more were intended by it : for how unsuitable●a way was it to declare the pardon of the guilty persons , by such severities used towards the most innocent ! who could believe , that god should declare his willingness to pardon others , by the death of his own son ; unless that death of his be considered as the meritorious cause for procuring it ? and in that sense we acknowledge , that the death of christ was a declaration of gods will and decree to pardon , but not meerly as it gave testimony to the truth of his doctrine ( for in that sense the blood of the apostles and martyrs might be said to purge us from sin , as well as the blood of christ ) but because it was the consideration upon which god had decreed to pardon . and so as the acceptance of the condition required , or the price paid , may be ●aid to declare or manifest , the intention of a person to release or deliver a captive : so gods acceptance of what christ did suffer for our sakes , may be said to declare his readiness to pardon us upon his account . but then this declaration doth not belong properly to the act of christ in suffering ; but to the act of god in accepting : and it can be no other ways known , than gods acceptance is known ; which was not by the sufferings , but by the resurrection of christ. and theref●re the declaring gods will and decree to pardon , doth properly belong to that : and if that had been all which the scripture had meant , by purging of sin by the blood of christ , it had been very incongruously applied to that , but most properly to his resurrection . but these phrases being never attributed to that which most properly might be said to declare the will of god ; and being peculiarly attributed to the death of christ , which cannot be said properly to do it ; nothing can be more plain , than that these expressions ought to be taken in that which is confessed to be their proper sense ; viz. that expiation of sin , which doth belong to the death of christ , as a sacrifice for the sins of the world . but yet socinus and crellius have another subterfuge . ( for therein lies their great art , in seeking rather by any means to escape their enemies , than to overcome them . ) for being sensible , that the main scope and design of the scripture is against them , they seldom , and but very weakly assault : but shew all their subtilty in avoiding by all imaginable arts , the force of what is brought against them . and the scripture being so plain in attributing such great effects to the death of christ , when no other answer will serve turn , then they tell us , that the death of christ is taken metonymically for all the consequents of his death ; viz. his resurrection , exaltation , and the power and authority which he hath at the right hand of his father . but how is it possible to convince those , who by death , can understand life ; by sufferings , can mean glory , and by the shedding of blood , sitting at the right hand of god ? and that the scripture is very far from giving any countenance to these bold interpretations , will appear by these considerations ; . because the effect of expiation of our sins , is attributed to the death of christ , as distinct from his resurrection . ; viz. our reconciliation with god , rom. . . for if when we were enemies , we were reconciled to god by the death of his son ; much more being reconciled , we shall be saved by his life . to which crellius answers , that the apostle doth not speak of the death of christ alone , or as it is considered distinct from the consequences of it ; but only that our reconciliation was effected by the death of christ intervening . but nothing can be more evident to any one , who considers the design of the apostles discourse , than that he speaks of what was peculiar to the death of christ : for therefore it is said , that christ dyed for the ungodly . for scarcely for a righteous man will one dye : but god comm●ndeth his love towards us , in that while we were yet sinners , christ dyed for us . much more then being now justified by his blood , we shall be saved through him ; upon which those words follow , for if when we were enemies , we were reconciled to god by the death of his son , &c. the reconciliation here mentioned , is attributed to the death of christ in the same sense , that it is mentioned before ; but there it is not mentioned as a bare condition intervening in order to something farther ; but as the great instance of the love both of god and christ ; of god , in sending his son ; of christ , in laying down his life for sinners , in order to their being justified by his blood . but where is it that st. paul saith , that the death of christ had no other influence on the expiation of our sins , but as a bare condition intervening in order to that power and authority whereby he should expiate sins ? what makes him attribute so much to the death of christ , if all the benefits we enjoy depend upon the consequences of it ; and no otherwise upon that , than meerly as a preparation for it ? what peculiar emphasis were there in christs dying for sinners , and for the ungodly ; unless his death had a particular relation to the expiation of their sins ? why are men said to be justified by his blood , and not much rather by his glorious resurrection , if the blood of christ be only considered as antecedent to the other ? and that would have been the great demonstration of the love of god which had the most immediate influence upon our advantage : which could not have been the death in this sense , but the life and glory of christ. but nothing can be more absurd than what crellius would have to be the meaning of this place , viz. that the apostle doth not speak of the proper force of the death of christ distinct from his life ; but that two things are opposed to each other for the effecting of one of which the death of christ did intervene , but it should not intervene for the other ; viz. it did intervene for our reconciliation , but it should not for our life . for did not the death of christ equally intervene for our life as for our reconciliation ? was not our eternal deliverance the great thing designed by christ , and our reconciliation in order to that end ? what opposition then can be imagined , that it should be necessary for the death of christ to intervene in order to the one than in order to the other ? but he means , that the death of christ should not intervene anymore ; what need that , when it is acknowledged by themselves , that christ dyed only for this end before , that he might have power to bestow eternal life on them that obey him ? but the main force of the apostles argument lies in the comparison between the death of christ having respect to us as enemies in order to reconciliation , and the life of christ to us considered as reconciled ; so that if he had so much kindness for enemies , to dye for their reconciliation , we may much more presume that he now living in heaven will accomplish the end of that reconciliation , in the eternal salvation of them that obey him . by which it is apparent that he speaks of the death of christ in a notion proper to it self , having influence upon our reconciliation ; and doth not consider it metonymically as comprehending in it , the consequents of it . . because the expiation of sins is attributed to christ antecedently to the great consequents of his death , viz. his sitting at the right hand of god. heb. . . when he had by himself purged our sins , sate down on the right hand of his majesty on high . heb. . . but by his own blood he entred in once into the holy place , having obtained eternal redemption for us . to these places crellius gives a double answer . . that indefinite particles ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) being joyned with verbs of the praeterperfect tense do not always require that the action expressed by them , should precede that which is designed in the verbs to which they are joyned ; but they have sometimes the force of particles of the present or imperfect tense ; which sometimes happens in particles of the praeterperfect tense , as matth. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and several other instances produced by him : according to which manner of interpretation the sense he puts upon those words , heb. . . is , christ by the shedding of his blood entred into the holy of holies , and in so doing he found eternal redemption , or the expiation of sins . but not to dispute with crellius concerning the importance of the aorist being joyned with a verb of the praeterperfect tense , which in all reason and common acceptation doth imply the action past by him who writes the words antecedent to his writing of it , as is plain in the instances produced by crellius ; but according to his sense of christs expiation of sin , it was yet to come after christs entrance into heaven , and so it should have been more properly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 than 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; not i say to insist upon that , the apostle manifests , that he had a respect to the death of christ in the obtaining this eternal redemption , by his following discourse : for v. . he compares the blood of christ in point of efficacy for expiation of sin , with the blood of the legal sacrifices : whereas if the expiation meant by him had been sound by christs oblation of himself in heaven , he would have compared christs entrance into heaven in order to it , with the entrance of the high-priest into the holy of holies , and his argument had run thus . for if the high-priest under the law did expiate sins by entring into the holy of holies ; how much more shall the son of god entring into heaven expiate the sins of mankind : but we see the apostle had no sooner mention'd the redemption obtained for us ; but he presently speaks of the efficacy of the blood of christ in order to it , and as plainly asserts the same , v. . and for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament that by means of death , for the redemption of the transgressions which were under the first testament , they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance . why doth the apostle here speak of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the expiation of sins by the means of death ; if he had so lately asserted before that the redemption or expiation was found not by his death , but by his entrance into heaven ? and withal the apostle here doth not speak of such a kind of expiation as wholly respects the future , but of sins that were under the first testament , not barely such as could not be expiated by vertue of it , but such as were committed during the time of it , although the levitical law allowed no expiation for them . and to confirm this sense , the apostle doth not go on to prove the necessity of christs entrance into heaven ; but of his dying , v. , , . but granting that he doth allude to the high-priests entring into the holy of holies , yet that was but the representation of a sacrifice already offer'd , and he could not be said to find expiation by his entrance ; but that was already found by the blood of the sacrifice , and his entrance was only to accomplish the end for which the blood was offer'd up in sácrifice . and the benefit which came to men is attributed to the sacrifice , and not to the sprinkling of blood before the mercy-seat : and whatever effect was consequent upon his entrance into the sanctuary , was by vertue of the blood which he carried in with him , and was before shed at the altar . neither can it with any reason be said , that if the redemption were obtained by the blood of christ , there could be no need of his entrance into heaven ; since we do not make the priesthood of christ to expire at his death ; but that he is in heaven a merciful high-priest in negotiating the affairs of his people with god , and there ever lives to make intercession for them . crellius answers , that granting the aorist being put before the ver 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should imply such an action which was antecedent to christs sitting at the right hand of god , yet it is not there said , that the expiation of sins was made before christs entrance into heaven ; for those , saith he , are to be considered as two different things ; for a prince first enters into his palace , before he sits upon his throne . and therefore , saith he , christ may be said to have made expiation of sins , before he sate down at the right hand of his father , not that it was done by his death , but by his entrance into heaven , and offering himself to god there , by which means he obtained his sitting on the right hand of the majesty on high , and thereby the full power of remission of sins , and giving eternal life . to which i answer , . that the sripture never makes such a distinction between christs entrance into heaven , and sitting at the right hand of god ; which latter implying no more but the glorious state of christ in heaven , his entrance into heaven doth imply it : for therefore god exalted him to be a prince and a saviour ; and the reason of the power and authority given him in heaven is no where attributed to his entrance into it as the means of it ; but our saviour before that tells us that all power and authority was committed to him ; and his very entrance into heaven was a part of his glory ; and given him in consideration of his sufferings ; as the apostle plainly asserts ; and he became obedient to death , even the death of the cross , wherefore god hath highly exalted him , &c. there can be then no imaginable reason to make the entrance of christ into heaven , and presenting himself to god there , a condition or means of obtaining that power and authority which is implyed in his sitting at the right hand of god. . supposing , we should look on these as distinct , there is as little reason to attribute the expiation of sin to his entrance , considered as distinct from the other : for the expiation of sins in heaven being by crellius himself confessed to be by the exercise of christs power , and this being only the means to that power , how could christ expiate sins by that power which he had not ? but of this i have spoken before , and shewed that in no sense allowed by themselves the expiation of sins can be attributed to the entrance of christ into heaven as distinct from his sitting at the right hand of god. thus much may suffice to prove , that those effects of an expiatory sacrifice , which do respect the sins committed , do properly agree to the death of christ. i now come to that which respects the person , considered as obnoxious to the wrath of god by reason of his sins ; and so the effect of an expiatory sacrifice is atonement and reconciliation . by the wrath of god , i mean , the reason which god hath from the holiness and justice of his nature , to punish sin in those who commit it : by the means of atonement and reconciliation , i mean , that in consideration of which , god is willing to release the sinner from the obligation to punishment he lyes under by the law of god , and to receive him into favour , upon the terms which are declared by the doctrine of christ. and that the death of christ was such a means of atonement and reconciliation for us , i shall prove by those places of scripture which speak of it . but crellius would seem to acknowledge , that if grotius seem to contend for no more , than that christ did avert that wrath of god which men had deserved by their sins , they would willingly yield him all that he pleads for : but then he adds , that this deliverance from the wrath to come , is not by the death , but by the power of christ. so that the question is , whether the death of christ were the means of atonement and reconciliation between god and us ? and yet crellius would seem willing to yield too , that the death of christ may be said to avert the wrath of god from us , as it was a condition in order to it ; for in that sense it had no more influence upon it than his birth had : but we have already seen , that the scripture attributes much more to the death and blood of christ , in order to the expiation of sin . we do not deny , that the death of christ may be called a condition , as the performance of any thing in order to an end , may be called the condition upon which that thing is to be obtained ; but we say , that it is not a bare condition , but such a one as implies a consideration , upon which the thing is obtained , being such as answers the end of him that grants it : by which means it doth propitiate or atone him , who had before just reason to punish , but is now willing to forgive and be reconciled to them , who have so highly offended him . and in this sense we assert , that christ is said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a propitiation for our sins , john . . — . . which we take in the same sense that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is taken for the sin-offering for atonement . ezek. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they shall offer a sin-offering ; for so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there signifies : and in the same sense 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is taken , ezek. . , and the ram for atonement t s call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , numb . . . and thence the high-priest when he made an atonement , is said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , maccab . . . which is of the greater consequence to us , because crellius would not have the sense either of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to be taken from the common use of the word in the greek tongue ; but from that which some call the hellenistical use of it ; viz. that which is used in the greek of the new testament , out of the lxx . and the apocryphal greek ; in both which we have found the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in a sense fully correspondent to what we plead for . but he yet urges , and takes a great deal of pains to prove , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do not alwayes signifie to be appeased by another ; but sometimes signifies to be propitious and merciful in pardoning ; and sometimes to expiate , and then signifies the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : which if it be granted , proves nothing against us , having already proved , that those words do signifie the aversion of the wrath of god by a sacrifice , and that there is no reason to recede from that signification , when they are applyed to the blood of christ. and we do not contend , that when the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is applyed to him that doth forgive , it doth imply appeasing ; but the effect of it , which is pardoning ; but that which we assert , is , that when it is applyed to a third person , or a thing made use of in order to forgiveness , then we say it signifies the propitiating him that was justly displeased : so as by what was done or suffered for that end , he is willing to pardon what he had just reason to punish . so moses is said , to make atonement for the people by his prayers , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , exod. . . and we may see verse . how much god was displeased before . and moses besought the lord his god , and said , why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people : and verse . turn from thy fierce wrath , and repent of this evil against thy people : and then it is said , verse . the lord was atoned for the evil which he thought to do unto his people . i would therefore willingly know , why moses might not here properly be said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as it is said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and therefore since it is so very often said in the levitical law , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the accusative case scarce ever put but in two cases ; ( viz. when these words are applyed to inanimate things , as the altar , &c. or when to god himself , implying forgiveness ) what reason can we assign more probable for this different construction , than that when 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used , the verb hath a respect to the offended party as the accusative understood ? as christ is said in the places mentioned to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which ought in reason to be understood as those words after moses his intercession , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but crellius asks , why then do we never read once concerning the priest , that he did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but we read that he did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and god is said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . to this i answer ; . that the reason why the person propitiated , is not expressed , is , because it was so much taken for granted , that the whole institution of sacrifices did immediately respect god , and therefore there was no danger of mistaking , concerning the person who was to be atoned . . i wonder crellius can himself produce no instance where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used with respect to the sacrifices , and the persons whose offences are remitted by the atonement ; but where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath a relation to that , it is still joyned with a preposition relating , either to the person or to the offences ; if no more were understood when it is so used , than when god himself is said to do it , why is not the phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as well said of the priest , as it is of god ? from whence grotius his sense of hebr. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is far more agreeable to the use of the phrase in the old testament , than that which crellius would put upon it . therefore since the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is attributed to christ , we ought to take it in the sense proper to a propitiatory sacrifice : so it is said by moses , where god is left out , but is necessarily understood , after the people had provoked god by their idolatry ; ye have sinned a great sin : and now i will go up unto the lord , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that i may make an atonement for your sin : what way could moses be said to make this atonement , but by propitiating god ; yet his name is not there expressed , but necessarily understood . so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used in the most proper sense for appeasing the anger of a person , gen . . and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , sam. . . which places have been already insisted on , in the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and that those places wherein christ is said to be a propitiation for our sins , are capable of no other sense , will appear from the consideration of christ , as a middle person betwen god and us ; and therefore his being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , cannot be parallel with that phrase , where god himself is said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for christ is here considered as interposing between god and us , as moses and the priests under the law did between god and the people , in order to the averting his wrath from them . and when one doth thus interpose in order to the atonement of the offended party , something is alwayes supposed to be done or suffered by him , as the means of that atonement . as iacob supposed the present he made to his brother would propitiate him ; and david appeased the gibeonites by the death of sauls sons , both which are said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so the shedding of the blood of sacrifices before and under the law , was the means of atoning god for the sins they committed . what reason can there be then why so received a sense of atonement , both among the iews , and all other nations at that time when these words were written , must be forsaken ; and any other sense be embraced , which neither agrees with the propriety of the expression , nor with so many other places of scripture , which make the blood of christ to be a sacrifice for the expiation of sin ? neither is it only our atonement , but our reconciliation is attributed to christ too , with a respect to his death and sufferings . as in the place before insisted on : for if when we were enemies , we were reconciled to god by the death of his son ; and more largely in the second epistle to the corinthians . and all things are of god , who hath reconciled us to himself by iesus christ , and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation : to wit , that god was in christ reconciling the world unto himself , not imputing their trespasses unto them , and hath committed to us the word of reconciliation . for he hath made him to be sin for us who knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him . and to the ephesians , and that he might reconcile both unto god in one body by his cross , having slain the enmity thereby . to the same purpose to the colossians , and having made peace through the blood of his cross , by him to reconcile all things to himself , by him i say whether they be things in heaven or in earth ; and you that were sometimes alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works , yet now hath he reconciled , in the body of his flesh through death . two things the substance of crellius his answer may be reduced to concerning these places . . that it is no where said that god was reconciled to us , but that we are reconciled to god , and therefore this reconciliation doth not imply any averting of the anger of god. . that none of these places do assert any reconciliation with god antecedent to our conversion , and so that the reconciliation mention'd implyes only the laying aside our enmity to god by our sins . i begin with the first of these , concerning which we are to consider not barely the phrases used in scripture , but what the nature of the thing implyes ; as to which a difference being supposed between god and man on the account of sin , no reconciliation can be imagined but what is mutual . for did man only fall out with god , and had not god just reason to be displeased with men for their apostasie from him ? if not , what made him so severely punish the first sin that ever was committed by man ? what made him punish the old world for their impieties by a deluge ? what made him leave such monuments of his anger against the sins of the world in succeeding ages ? what made him add such severe sanctions to the laws he made to the people of the iews ? what made the most upright among them so vehemently to deprecate his wrath and displeasure upon the sense of their sins ? what makes him declare not only his hatred of the sins of men , but of the persons of those who commit them ; so far as to express the greatest abhorrency of them ? nay , what makes our adversaries themselves to say , that impiety is in its own nature hateful to god , and stirrs him up to anger against all who commit it ? what means , i say , all this , if god be not angry with men on the account of sin ? well then ; supposing god to be averse from men by reason of their sins , shall this displeasure always continue or not ; if it always continues , men must certainly suffer the desert of their sins ; if it doth not always continue , then god may be said to be reconciled in the same sense that an offended party is capable of being reconciled to him who hath provoked him . now there are two ways whereby a party justly offended may be said to be reconciled to him that hath offended him . first , when he is not only willing to admit of terms of agreement , but doth declare his acceptance of the mediation of a third person , and that he is so well satisfied with what he hath done in order to it , that he appoints this to be published to the world to assure the offender , that if the breach continues , the fault wholly lies upon himself . the second is , when the offender doth accept of the terms of agreement offered , and submits himself to him whom he hath provoked , and is upon that received into favour . and these two we assert must necessarily be distinguished in the reconciliation between god and us . for upon the death and sufferings of christ , god declares to the world he is so well satisfied with what christ hath done and suffered in order to the reconciliation between himself and us , that he now publishes remission of sins to the world upon those terms which the mediator hath declared by his own doctrine , and the apostles he sent to preach it : but because remission of fins doth not immediately follow upon the death of christ , without supposition of any act on our part , therefore the state of favour doth commence from the performance of the conditions which are required from us . so that upon the death of christ god declaring his acceptance of christs mediation , and that the obstacle did not lye upon his part ; therefore those messengers who were sent abroad into the world to perswade men to accept of these terms of agreement , do insist most upon that which was the remaining obstacle , viz. the sins of mankind , that men by laying aside them , would be now reconciled to god , since there was nothing to hinder this reconciliation , their obstinacy in sin excepted . which may be a very reasonable account why we read more frequently in the writings of the apostles , of mens duty in being reconciled to god ; the other being supposed by them as the foundation of their preaching to the world , and is insisted on by them upon that account , as is clear in that place to the corinthians , that god was in christ reconciling the world to himself , not imputing unto men their trespasses , and hath committed to us the word of reconciliation ; and therefore adds , now then we are ambassadors for christ , as though god did beseech you by us , we pray you in christs stead be ye reconciled to god : and least these words should seem dubious , he declares that the reconciliation in christ was distinct from that reconciliation he perswades them to ; for the reconciliation in christ he supposeth past . v. . all things are of god , who hath reconciled us to himself by iesus christ , and v. . he shews us how this reconciliation was wrought : for he hath made him to be sin for us who knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him . crellius here finds it necessary to acknowledge a twofold reconciliation , but hopes to escape the force of this place by a rare distinction of the reconciliation as preached by christ , and by his apostles ; and so gods having reconciled the world to himself by iesus christ is nothing else but christs preaching the gospel himself , who afterwards committed that office to his apostles . but if such shifts as these will serve to baffle mens understandings , both they were made , and the scripture were written to very little purpose ; for if this had been all the apostle had meant , that christ preached the same doctrine of reconciliation before them , what mighty matter had this been to have solemnly told the world , that christs apostles preached no other doctrine , but what their master had preached before ? especially if no more were meant by it , but that men should leave their sins , and be reconciled to god. but besides , why is the ministery of reconciliation , then attributed only to the apostles , and not to christ , which ought in the first place to have been given to him , since the apostles did only receive it from him ? why is that ministery of reconciliation said to be , viz. that god was in christ reconciling the world to himself ? was this all the subject of the apostles preaching , to tell the world , that christ perswaded men to leave off their sins ? how comes god to reconcile the world to himself by the preaching of christ , since christ himself saith , he was not sent to preach to the world ; but to the lost sheep of the house of israel ? was the world reconciled to god by the preaching of christ before they had ever heard of him ? why is god said not to impute to men their trespasses by the preaching of christ , rather than his apostles ; if the not imputing were no more than declaring gods readiness to pardon ; which was equally done by the apostles as by christ himself ? lastly , what force or dependance is there in the last words , for he made him to be sin for us , who knew no sin , &c. if all he had been speaking of before had only related to christs preaching ? how was he made sin more than the apostles , if he were only treated as a sinner upon the account of the same doctrine which they preached equally with him ? and might not men be said to be made the righteousness of god in the apostles , as well as in christ , if no more be meant , but being perswaded to be righteous , by the doctrine delivered to them ? in the two latter places , eph. . . coloss. . . &c. it is plain , that a twofold reconcilation is likewise mentioned , the one of the iews and gentiles to one another , the other of both of them to god. for nothing can be more ridiculous than the exposition of socinus , who would have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not to be joyned with the verb , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but to stand by it self , and to signifie that this reconciliation of the iews and gentiles did tend to the glory of god. and crellius , who stands out at nothing , hopes to bring off socinus here too ; by saying , that it is very common , for the end to which a thing was appointed to be expressed by a dative case following the verb ; but he might have spared his pains in proving a thing no one questions ; the shorter answer had been to have produced one place where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ever signifies any thing but to be reconciled to god as the offended party ; or whereever the dative of the person following the verb importing reconciliation , did signifie any thing else but the party with whom the reconciliation was to be made . as for that objection concerning things in heaven being reconciled ; that phrase doth not import such a reconciliation of the angels as of men , but that men and angels upon the reconciliation of men to god , become one body under christ , and are gathered together in him , as the apostle expresseth it , eph. . . having thus far proved , that the effects of an expiatory sacrifice do belong to the death of christ , nothing now remains but an answer to be made to two objections , which are commonly insisted on by our adversaries . the first is , that god was reconciled before he sent his son , and therefore christ could not dye to reconcile god to us . the second is , that the doctrine of satisfaction asserted by us , is inconsistent with the freeness of gods grace in the remission of sins : both which 〈◊〉 admit of an easie solution upon the principles of the foregoing discourse . to the first i answer , that we assert nothing inconsistent with that love of god , which was discovered in sending his son into the world ; we do not say , that god hated mankind so much on the account of sin , that it was impossible he should ever admit of any terms of reconciliation with them , which is the only thing inconsistent with the greatness of gods love , in sending christ into the world ; but we adore and magnifie the infiniteness and unexpressible greatness of his love , that notwithstanding all the contempt of the former kindness and mercies of heaven , he should be pleased to send his own son to dye for sinners , that they might be reconciled to him . and herein was the great love of god manifested , that while we were enemies and sin●ers , christ dyed for us , and that for this end , that we might be reconciled to god by his death . and therefore surely , not in the state of favour or reconciliation with god then . but it were worth the while , to understand what it is our adversaries mean , when they say , god was reconciled when he sent his son , and therefore he could not dye to reconcile god to us . either they mean , that god had decreed to be reconciled upon the sending his son , or that he was actually reconciled when he sent him : if he only decreed to be reconciled , that was not at all inconsistent with christs dying to reconcile god and us in pursuance of that decree : if they mean , he was actually reconciled , then there was no need for christ to dye to reconcile god and us ; but withal , actual reconciliation implies pardon of sin ; and if sin were actually pardoned before christ came , there could be no need of his coming at all , and sins would have been pardoned before committed ; if they were not pardoned , notwithstanding that love of god , then it can imply no more , but that god was willing to be reconciled . if therefore the not remission of sins were consistent with that love of god , by which he sent christ into the world , then notwithstanding that he was yet capable of being reconciled by his death . so that our adversaries are bound to reconcile that love of god , with not presently pardoning the sins of the world , as we are to reconcile it with the ends of the death of christ , which are asserted by us . to the other objection , concerning the inconsistency of the freeness of gods grace , with the doctrine of satisfaction . i answer , either gods grace is so free as to exclude all conditions , or not : if it be so free , as to exclude all conditions , then the highest antinomianism is the truest doctrine ; for that is the highest degree of the freeness of grace , which admits of no conditions at all . if our adversaries say , that the freeness of grace is consistent with conditions required on our part , why shall it not admit of conditions on gods part ? especially , when the condition required , tends so highly to the end of gods governing the world , in the manifestation of his hatred against sin , and the vindication of the honour of his laws by the sufferings of the son of god in our stead , as an expiatory sacrifice for our sins . there are two things to be considered in sin , the dishonor done to god , by the breach of his laws , and the injury men do to themselves by it ; now remission of sins , that respects the injury which men bring upon themselves by it ; and that is free , when the penalty is wholly forgiven , as we assert it is by the gospel to all penitent sinners : but shall not god be free to vindicate his own honor , and to declare his righteousness to the world , while he is the iustifier of them that believe ? shall men in case of defamation , be bound to vindicate themselves , though they freely forgive the authors of the slander , by our adversaries own doctrine ? and must it be repugnant to gods grace , to admit of a propitiatory sacrifice , that the world may understand , that it is no such easie thing to obtain pardon of sin committed against god ; but that as often as they consider the bitter sufferings of christ , in order to the obtaining the forgiveness of our sins , that should be the greatest argument to disswade them from the practice of them ? but why should it be more inconsistent with the sacrifice of christ , for god freely to pardon sin , than it was ever presumed to be in all the sacrifices of either jews or gentiles ? who all supposed sacrifices necessary in order to atonement ; and yet thought themselves obliged to the goodness of god in the remission of their sins ? nay , we find that god himself , in the case of abimel●ch , appointed abraham to pray for him , in order to his pardon ; and will any one say , this was a derogation to the grace of god in his pardon ? or to the pardon of iobs friends , because iob was appointed to sacrifice f●r them ? or to the pardon of the israelites , because god out of kindness to them , directed them by the prophets , and appointed the means in order to it ? but although god appointed our high-priest for us , and out of his great love sent him into the world , yet his sacrifice was not what was given him , but what he freely underwent himself ; he gave us christ , but christ offered up himself a full , perfect and sufficient sacrifice , oblation and satisfaction for the sins of the world . thus , sir , i have now given you a larger account of what i then more briefly discoursed of , concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ ; and heartily wishing you a right understanding in all things , and requesting from you an impartial consideration of what i have written , i am , sir , your , &c. e. s. ian. . ● . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e serm. i. a b c d e a b c d a lam. . . e a b c d e a b c d e a a luk. . , . b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . de beil . jud. l. . c. . c d e a b c d a jude . e a a tacit. a● . . b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . xiphil . in epit. dion . in tito . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . herodian . in commod . hist. l. . p. . v. xiphil . ad fin . commodi . c b niceph. l. . c. . c e●●gr . l. . cap . d ba●●● . tom. . a. . . d e a b c d e a b c d e a b a hieron in loc . c d b gildas de excid . brit. e a b c d e a b c d e a scipio apud aug d● civ . d. l. . c. . a b c d e a b c d e a b c d a ci●cr . pro flac●o . b heb. . . e c isa. . , , . a b c d e a b a zeph. . , , . c b amos . . d c lact. l. c. . e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d a rev. . . e a b c d e a b c d e notes for div a -e serm. ii. a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c a king. . , , . d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d a joh . . e b nicol. damascen . de moribus gent. p. . ed. cragii . a b a geta in appiano . ( a ) herod . thal v. synes . de laude calvivitii . p. . c d e a a tit. . . b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d a tacit. de moribus german . e a a gal . . b eph . . b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e notes for div a -e a b serm. iii. c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a a luke . , . b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d a rom. . , , , , . e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a a titus . . b c d e a b c d e notes for div a -e a b serm. iv. c d e b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a a rom . . b c d b rom. ● . e c rom. . d gal. . ● . a a rom. . b c d e a b c d e notes for div a -e serm. v. a b c d e a b c d a mat. . e a b c d e a b a heb. . , . c d b mark . . e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a matth. . . b v. . a a v. . b b v. . c v. . c d v. . d e v. . f v. , , . e a b c d a v. lud. vi● . ad s. aug. de civit. dei , l. . c. . e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d a mat. . . b mark . . c thess. . . d thess. . . e mat. . e a a cor. . . b b rev. . c d e a b c d e a b c d a heb. . . e a b c d a gal. . 〈◊〉 , . e a b c d e a b c d e notes for div a -e serm. vi. a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ● . a b c d e a b c d e a john . a a matt. . , . b b john . . c d e a a mat. . . b c d b luk. c mat . e a a isa , . b mat. . . c luk. . . b d mat. . , . c e luk . . d f mat . e a a joh. . . b c d e a b c d a mat. . . e a b a orig. c. cels. l. . p. . b august . de civit. dei , l. . c. . c c cur ergo damnatus est ? responait dea : corpus quidem debilitantibus tormentis semper oppositum est , anima autem piorum coelasti s●ai insidet . d d joh. . . e a b c d e a a pet . . , . b c b p●i● . nat. hist. l. . . c scali● . hist. a●i● . l sect . . d e d 〈…〉 . l. . a b a aab . miraus i● 〈◊〉 i●â lips●i p. . c b joh. . . d e a b a isa. . . c d e a b c d e a a cor. . b b quod caet●●a etiam foede●a c●so a●imali ali ●…o s●…ciri , & sa●g●i●● ejus co●fir● ari solerent . crell . c. grot. ad cap. . p. . c d c v. hei●s . not . ad sil. p. . . e a b c d e a a pet. . . b isa. . . b c v. . d heb. . . v. . e john . , , . f tim . . g cor. . . ephes. . . h col. . . i rom. . , . c k rom. . . l cor. . , . m heb. . , . n heb. . . d . . e a b c d e a b c d e a a mat. . . b b phil. . , . c cor. . . d rom. . . c e v. . f v. . g heb. . . d e notes for div a -e ser. vii . a b c d e a a mat . . b b rom. . c d e c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . epiphan . haeres . . p. . ed. petav. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . epiph. haer . s. 〈◊〉 . . 〈◊〉 . . a b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . theo●oret . haeret . sab . l. . p. ● . c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . epiph. her . . sect . . b c d ad ●…atem ergo g●ntiu●n , t●…m regnum positum est à ●…o : sed not à diatolo , qui nunquam omnino ●●i●tus est , immo ui acc i●sas quid m g●●te● 〈◊〉 i● tra●quil●o a●ere . iren. advers . haer . l. . c e pe● . f mac. . . d e a v. david ca●● . c●…ol . p. . b c d e a b c d e a b ☜ c d e a v. , a a v. . b c b numb . . . c num . . . . d d ioseph . a●ti● . i●d . l. . 〈◊〉 . . e a b c d e a a ios●●h a●ti● . l. . c. . b b numb . . . c c v. . d d numb . . . e a b a numb . . c b v. . c ioseph . l. . , . d d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ioseph●● a●● . l. . c. . p. . e a b c d e a b c d a dio. rom. hist. l. . b l. . init . e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c a numb . . . b v. . d e c namb. . . a a rom. . , . b c d e a a sam. . . b sam. . . b c sam. . . c d eccles. . . d e tit. sanbed c. . e f nachman . in deut. p. . a a sam. . . b c b jude v. d c tit. . . e a b c d a sam. . . e notes for div a -e ser. viii . a b c d a matth. . . e a b c a luke . , . b matth. . . d c luke . . e a b a v. . c d b v. . c v. . e a b c d e a b c d e a b c ios. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 l. . c. . p. . d a lib. . c. . e a b a philost . v. apollo● . l. . cap. . c d b ios. p. . e a b a hos. . c d e b hie●o● . in zeph. . a a aug. in psal. . b c b chron. . , . d e c kings . . a a lev. . . b b exod. . . c c gen. . . d e a a cic. tusc. . b eldad . danita apud buxtorf . v. sabbation . praef. in cos● . l'empereur in benjam . p. . . d c spes israel . sect . . p. . c d e a b c a orat. . c. iud. b chrys. in matth. hom . . in act. hom . . nazian . orat. . in iulian. ambr. ep. . theod. impr. russia . l. . c. . . socrat. l. . c. . sozom. l . c. . theod. l. . c. . amm. marcell . hist. l. . init . d e a b a tit. sanhed . c. . sect . . c d e a b c a matt. . . d b ioseph . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . l. . c. . e a b c d e a b c d e a rom. . , . a a rom. . . v. . b c d e a b c d e a l. . c. . a a l. . c. . p. . b p. . b c d e a b c d e a b c d e notes for div a -e serm. ix . a b c d a gen. . . e a a acts . . b v. . b c l' empereur in middoth . p. . buxtorf . lex . rabb . v. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hackspan . disp . philolog . p. . tremel . in not . ad syr. n. d c v. buxtorf . d esai . . . e a b c a heb . . b cor. . . . d e a b c d a matth. . . e b job . . . c kings . . d psal. . . a a dan. . , . b c d e a a joh . , . b matth. . , . b c acts . . . . c d e a b c d e a a act. . , . b c b dialog . . doemoniacis . c pomponat . de incantat . c. . p. . d d acts . , . e a mark . . a b matth. . . b c act. . d revel . . . e cor. . c d e f vania . dial. . p. . a a act. . . b c b act. . . c act. . . d d v. . v. . e a b c d e a a luke . . b b cor. . . c act. . . c d e a a exod. . . b b exod. . c c act. . , . d d isa. . . e isa. . . e a b a john . . revel . . . c b gen. . . c v. . d e a b c d e a cor. . . a b c d e notes for div a -e serm. x. a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c a rom. . , , , . d b john . c thess. . , , . e d matth. . . a b c d e a b c d a john . . e a a pro sextioc . . b b de n. deorum . l. . c de leg . l. . c d cor. . . e rom. . . d e a b c d e a b a montagne . ess. l. . c. . c d e a b c a jer. . , . d e a b c d e a a sal. l. . p. . &c. b b p. . c c p. . d e a b c d e notes for div a -e serm. xi . a b c d e a b c d a v. . e a b c a jud. v. . d e b pet. . . a b a luke . , . c d b luke . , , , , . e a a ch. . . b c d b rev. . . e a a gen. . . b c d b pet. . , . e a b c d a pet. . . e a b a matth. . . c b thes. . . c matth. . . d thes. . e john . . d f psal. . . exod. . . g psal. . . e h zach . . i matth. . . a rev. . . a chap. . . b rev. . . b c rev. . . d heb. . . c e isai , . . f dan. . , . g thes. . , . d h john. . . i matth. . . . mark . . e a ( b ) rom. . . b b cor. . . c d e a b a ezek. . . c d e a a sam. . , . b b psal. . . c james . . d rom. . . pet. . . c e heb. . . d e a prov. . , . a b luke . . b c isa. . , , . d malach. . . joel . . . c d mat. 〈◊〉 . . e e psal. . . . a a mat. . b c d e a b c d e a b c a act. . . d e b eccles . . a a john . , , . b act. . . b c c pet. . . d e a b c d e a b c d e notes for div a -e ser. xii . a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d a cor . . e b cor . . a a heb. . . b c d e a a tim. . . b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c a matth. . , . mark. . , . luke . , . b tim. . . d c tim. . . d james . . e mat. . . e a b a matth. . . . c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d e a b c d a rom. . . . b . . c cor. . . e a b c a phil. . . b pet. . . c matth. . d d luke . . e notes for div a -e a b c d §. . the introduction , concerning the socinian , way of interpreting scripture . e a b c d e a john . , . b c d e a b c d e a b socia . de servat . part. . cap. . 〈◊〉 c d e §. . the state of the controversie in general . b c d e a b c d e a b c §. . of the difference of debts and punishments . d e a no● re●●pi●●ntib●s ●●mam ro● conc●de●e , id d●m●m naturae divinae , & decretis ejus & propterea rellitudi●i & aeq●itati debitu● est ac con●e●ta●e●m . socin . de servat . l. . c. . no● resipis●eates ●oe●â non lio rare tum p●r se aequitati est admodum cons●nta●eum , & positis quibusda● fi●ibus quos d●us sibi in re●●●dis hominibus pr●sixit ●●●lo necessari●m . crell . c. grot. c. . sect . . b c d §. . the reason of humame punishment is the publick interest . e a b c d e b §. . the right of divine punishment not meer dominion . crell . respons . ad grot. cap. . sect . . &c. c p. . d e a b c d e a b soc. de servat . l. . c. . prae●ect . c . §. . . the end of punishments not bare compensation as it is in debts . 〈◊〉 c d crell . 〈◊〉 . g●ot . cap. . sect. . p. ● . sect. . p. . e a b c d crell . c. grot. cap. . p. . e sect. . p. . a b §. . of crelli●s his great mistake about the end of punishments . crell . cap. . sect . sect . . c p. . d e a b c §. . of the nature of ang●● and revenge in m●n , and whether punishments are designed to satisfie them . d e crell . c . sect . . 〈◊〉 . . a exert . . seneca de clem. l. . c. . de irâ . l. . c. . b de i●á l. . c. . c de irâ . l. . c. . cap. . cap. . d e de clem. l. . c. . de clem. l. . c. , . a b salust . in catalin . cicero . v. c cicero de iaveat . . d de irâ . l . c. . e * non praeterita sed futura intuebitur ; nam ut plato ait , remo pr●de●s punit quia pe●catum est , sed ne pec ●●●r . sen. de irâ . l. . c. . a lact. de ira dei. c. . cap. . sect . . b c d e cap. . sect . . p. . sect. . p. . a se● . de ●●a , l. . c. . & . cap. . b c d quibus ( sc. solatio & securitati ) addi poss●nt honoris ac dign tatis , per iajuriam violatae , & aliquâ ratione immi●●tae vi●diciae , ass●●tioque juris nostri crel . cap. . sect . . p. . e § . the interest of the magistrate in punishment distinct from that of private persons . a d●●● 〈◊〉 german . c. . g●… . de . 〈◊〉 . g●●h . i● 〈◊〉 . a● 〈◊〉 . go●h p. ● . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 g●… . ad ●o● . 〈◊〉 a●… . f●… 〈◊〉 . gloss. 〈◊〉 . f●… b c big●o● . not . i● m●…●…m cap. . ●●a ro . de . l. 〈◊〉 . l●b . . i●… pollux . l . d e a b §. . of the nature of anger in god ; the satisfact on to be made to it . crell . cap. . sect . . p. . p. . c cicer. t●… . . arist. rhet. l. . c. . d crell . c. . sect . p. . e a b crell . de verâ relig. l. . c. . c crell . cap. . sect . . p. . d e a b §. . of the ends of divine punishments . crell . c. sect . . p. . c p. . d e a ezek. . v. , . c. . . grot. de satisfact . c. . p. . ed. . grot. de jure belli , &c. l. . c. . sect . . b c d §. . the ends of divine punishments different in this and the future state . e a b c d e a b c d §. . the particular state of the controversie concerning the sufferings of christ for us . e a crell . praes . p. . ruarus in epistol . crell . cap. . sect . . cap. . sect . . cap. , , &c. cap. . sect . . b c d e a b c §. 〈◊〉 . whether the sufferings of christ are to be considered as a punishment of sin . crell . cap. . sect . . p. . d e a crell . cap. . sect . . &c. so●i● . de christo servat . l. . c. . crell . cap. . sect . . socia . l. . c. . b crell . c. . sect . . c d e a b c d e a § . the sufferings of christ proved to be a punishment from scripture pet. . . isa. . , , , , . cor. . ● . gal. . . rom. . . b soc. d● s●rvat . l. . cap. . crell . cap. . sect. . c d psal. . . heb. . . e a doc●issi●e & ●●ga●tissi●è vata●lus ●t f●●e ●olet . soc. d ●…v . l. c. . crell . cap. . sect. . b ezekiel . crell . cap. . sect. . §. . of the scape-go●ts bearing away the sins of the people . c socil . . c. . lev. . . grot. de sat . cap. . d crell . cap. . sect. . gen. . . e g●n . . . a isa. . . b c lev. . . d e a cod. ioma . tit . . b lev. . . c heb. . . lev. . . d v. . v. . v. . e a crell . c. sect. . b §. . grotius his sense of pet. . . vindicated . crell . c. . sect. . c d e a b c d e a b c d §. . crell . his sense examined . e soc. deserv . l. . cap. . crell cap. . sect. . a sect. . b c d e a §. . isa. . . vindicated . crell . c. . sect . . b c crell . c. . sect . . d e crell . c. . sect . . p. . soc. prae● . c. . sect . . a sam. . . b c d matth. . . ma●k . , . luke . . e a e●ist . eccle. p. , . discuss . p. , . b §. . isa. . , , . vindicated . de servat . l. . c. . c crell . c. . sect . . d e a b c d crell . c. . sect. . e a b §. . whether christs death be a proper . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and whether that doth imply that it was a punishment of sin . c d e a b c d e a b c d e a § . gods hatred of sin could not be seen in the sufferings of christ , if they were no punishment of sin . crell . c. . p. . b c d e a b c crell . c. . sect . . d crell . c. . sect . , ● . e a b c d § . grotius his arguments from christ's being made sin and a curse for us defined against crellius . e a crell . cap. . sect . . b c d e a b c soc. l. . c. . d e a b gen. . . c d e a b crell . c. . sect . . so●i● . ex●l●cat . cap. ioh. v. . c d socin . de c●●isto servat . l . c. . e a b c crell . annot. in loc . d §. . the particles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being joyned to sins , and relating to sufferings , do imply those sufferings to be the punishment of sin . e rom. . . cor. . . pet. . . heb. . crell . c. . sect. . a sect. . p. . b c socin . de servat . l. . c. . d e a b c d e a b c d §. . the ma●ter debated in point of reason . e a b ce tum est christum innocentissimum à deo gravissimis cruciatibus , ipsaque morte suissé assectum ; cum ●on in materiâ poenae absolute & per se consideratá , adeoque etiam in eâ afflictione à quâ poe●ae forma abe●t , injuria residere à nobis dicatur . crel . c. . sect. . potuit autem id deus facere , atque adeo fec●t , ●…re dominii , q●od i● christi vitam ac corpus habebat ; accedente praesertimipsius christi co●s●rsu . id. ib. sect. . c d e quod si ex thesi speciale sacere velis general●m , 〈◊〉 erit , i●justum esse punire innocentem , quacunque tandem de causá idsiat ; non vern simpli i●●r , puaire quem , iam ob alie●a delicta ; id enim concedi potest non s●mper esse inj stum . crel . c. sect. . a c●… ne illud quide● ad naturam poenae req●iratur , ut is ipse , q●i p●●ie id●s est , poenam reverà fu●rit commeritus , id. sect. . b poena quidem simpliciter ia innocentem cadit , justa no● cadit . crell . c. . sect. . c §. . in what cases crellius grants some may be lawfully punished for the sins of others . d q●ia deu● h●●c p●●i●●do ill●m q●oq●e alterum ob cujus peccati cum dicitur ●…rt , si●●l p●nire possit , ob arctio●em 〈◊〉 i●ter i●●os i●te●ce ●at co●●● 〈◊〉 . crell . ●b . sect . . crell . p. . e a b c d crell . ib. sect . . sect . . e a b c §. . crellius his arguments propounded . d e a crell . c. . sect . p. , . b c crell . ib. sect . . d §. . that a person by his own consent may be punished beyond the desert of his own actions . grot. de satisf . c. . e a b c crell . c. . sect . . p. . d e a b c §. . objections answered . d i●…o quenq●am pun●re est injust è punire . crell . p. . e a b c d e a §. . the instances of scripture considered . b c d e a exod . . alph. à castro de justâ haeret . punit . l. . c. . b gen. . . c sam. . . sam. . . d kings . v. . to v. . vers. . vers. . e chron. . . a sam. . , . b c d §. . ezek. . . explained . exek . . , . e a b jer. . , . c d ezek. . . e a b c d matth. . . ezek. . . e a ezek. . . b c crell . c. . sect . . §. . the deliverance of the guilty by the sufferings of an innocent person by his own consent , makes not the punishment unjust . d e a crell . c. sect . , , & ● . b c d e a b c crell . c. . sect . king . . d crell . cap. . sect . . e a b c d e crell . ib. sect . . a b c d e a b c §. . the death of christ considered as an expiatory sacrifice for sin . d e a heb. . . crell c. . sect . . b c d crell . c. . sect . . e a §. . what the expiation of si● was by the sacrifices under the law. b c grot. de satisf . c. . d e a heb. . , . b heb. . . c heb. . . . . d e a b soci● . de servat . l. . c. . prael●ct . theolog . cap. . c §. . a substitution proved from levit. . , &c. d crell c. . sect . . e a b exod. . , . . . c ovid. fast l. . d lev. . . e servius ad aencid . . a eus●b . demonst . evang l. . c. . crell . cap. . sect . . denotat e●im vo● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 eos quorum alter pro altero animam po●at aut devoveat , & fie id malum quod alteri sube●nd●m erat ejus loco subire non detrectet . b c soci● . de servat . l. . c. . d numb . . . e a crell . c. . sect . deut. . . b c §. . a substitution of christ in o●r room proved by his dying for us . d pet. . . . . . . cor. . . rom. . . tim. . heb. . john . luke . , . e matth. . . a john . . colos● . . . b c soc de servat . l. . c. . d cor. . . e socin . io . a §. . in what sense a surrogation of christ in our room is asserted by us . cr●l● . sect . . ib. sect . . b c ib sect . . ib. sect . . d e ib. 〈◊〉 . . a b c d covarru to. . p. . sect . n. . e a §. our redemption by christ proves a substitution . crell . c sect . . b c d §. . of the true notion of redemption e a socia . de servat . 〈◊〉 . . c. , . crell . c. . sect . . b ulpia l . d. de ●●re fi●●i . budaeus ad pa●dect . p. . liv. l. . festus v. red . ul●ian . l . d. de rei vend . c cicer. ep . ●a●il l. . cp . d or●t . ●●o syll● . soc. de ●●rvat . l. . c. . e §. . no necessity of paying the price to him that detains captive . a b crell . c . sect . . c d e a b c d e a b c d §. . of the o●lation made by christ unto god. e a b cr●ll . c. . sect . . ib. sect . . ib. sect . . ib. sect . . c ib. sect . . sect. . d e a tha●●…e priest●y office of christ had a primary respect to god , and not us . crell . in heb. . . b c crell cap. . sect . . numb . . . vers. . d sam. . . e lev. 〈◊〉 . . . . . a chron . . grot. in heb. . . b §. . christ no barely metaphorical high-priest . c crell . cap. . sect . . d heb. . . e a b c d crell . cap. . ●ect . . i● . s●ct . . 〈◊〉 . e a §. . crellius destroys the priesthood of christ. b smalc . c. smiglec . crell cap. . p. . c d e a b levit. . . v , . . §. . no proper expiation of sin belongs to christ in heaven , if crellius his doctrine be true . c crell . cap. . sect . . d e a crell . cap. . sect . . p. . b h b. . . rom. . . john . . c §. . ephes . . proves the death of christ in expiatory sacrifice and an oblation to god. ephes. . . d e crell . cap. . sect . . b c gen. . . . d porph●r . de abstinent . l. . sect . . e a b ioseph . a●tiq̄ . iud. l. . c. . c §. . crellius his mistakes about the kinds of sacrifices . d gen. . , . e a job . . . , . selden de jure ●a● . & ●e●t . a●u● eb●a . l. . c. . &c. . b levit. . . c lev. . . . . &c. levit. . . d crell . c. . p . e a b c d e a §. . what i●fluence the mactation of the sacrifice had on expiation . crell . cap. . p . b c levit. . . heb. . . d e a levit. ● . , . b codex ioma . cap . sect . . cap. sect . . c d e a heb. . , ● . , . ma●rob . sat●…a . l. . c. . b c d strabo l. . eustath . i● hom. iliad . 〈◊〉 . strabo l. . e herod . l. . a §. . whether christs oblation of himself once to god , were in heaven or on earth . b c cr●ll . cap. . sect . . d e a b c lev. . . v. . d e a lev. . , . v. . b l●vit . . . lev. . , . levit. . . c lev . , . §. . all things necessary to a legal oblation concur in the death of christ. d e a b c d e a b c heb. . . d e heb. . . a b c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . herodot . l . c. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . plutarch . de iside . d xenoph. cy●opaed . l. . . strab. l. . plutarch . symp. l. . probl . . e a b §. . chri●ts entrance into heaven could not be the oblation of himself mentioned . c d e matth. . . a phil. . , b c §. . christsexercise of power in heaven in no sense an oblation to god. d e a §. . crel●ius his sense repugnant to the circumstances of the place● . heb. . . . . . . heb. . , . . , . b heb. . . c heb. . . d heb. . , crell . cap. . sect . . e a heb . , . §. . object●ons a●●wered . 〈◊〉 . . . . . b . . . . c crell . cap. . sect . . soci● . p●aelect . c. ●…lt . d e a b c d e a b c d §. . of the true notion of expiation , as attributed to sacrifices . e a soci● . de christo servat . p. . l. . c●ell . cap. . sect . . b crell . cap. . sect . . c d soci● . de servat . p. . c. . psal. . . e a b lev. . . verse . . c d crellius his o●j●ctions answered . §. . cr●ll . c. . sect . . e a b c cum ro● neget , socinus hoc verb●m placandi significationem habere . crell . c. . sect . . d e a b §. . the iew● notion of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 buxtorf . ●exic . talmud . v. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c d matth. . . e a socia . l. . c. . doc●t socinus victima●um oblationem obedientiam quandam deo praestandam , quanq●am lev●m contin●isse , quam ex ●romisso dei levium quoru●dam errator●m ac peccatorum venia co●se●●eretur . creli . c. . sect . . b c d e a b §. . g●d● ex●i●ting sin , des●●o●es n●● ex●xp●ation by sacrifices . c●ell . ib. sect . . c h●b . . . d verse ● , . verse , , , , . e a b c lev. . . d e a §. . the importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , relating to sacrifices . b c d crell . c. . sect . . & . e a itaque quod ad ●…es graecas 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 attinet , quic●s i● hoc ar●u●●nto non semel ●titur d. scriptor ad heb. t● ad christi sacrifici●● & sac●rd●●i ●●●ctionem relatae ●o etiam 〈◊〉 ●s●r●antur q●●m graeca ●i●gua recep●rat , b. c. de ●xp●●gatio●e r●atus & aversio●● irae n●mi●is a●t p●●●ae . crell . c. . p. . b c d e a §. . expiation attributed to the sacrifice of christ in the same sense that it was to other sacrifices . b crell . c. . sect . . c d e a b c crell . c. . sect . . d e a b §. . expiation by christ not meerly declara●ive . c crell . cap. . sect . . p . d e a b crell . cap. . sect . . c d e a b c d e a b c §. . the death of christ not taken metonymically for all the consequents of it . d c●ell . cap. . sect . . sect. . c. sect. . p. . e a crell . cap. . sect . . b rom. . v. . . . . . c d e a b c §. . expiation attributed to christ antecedently to his entrance into heaven . d crell . cap. . sect . . e a b c d e a §. . no distinction in scripture of the effects of christs entrance into heaven from his sitting at the right hand of god. b crell . c. . sect . . p. . c matth. . . d phil. . , . e a §. . of the atonement made by christs death . b crell . c. . sect . . c d e a crell . . sect . . b c d e a b c d e a b §. . of reconciliation by christs death . rom. . . cor. . , . c ephes. . . col. . , , . d crill . c. . sect . , , , , &c. e a psal. . . . . psal. . . . . . . levit. . . b crell . de deo & attrib . l. 〈◊〉 . c. . c d e a b cor. . . . c crell . cap. . sect . . 〈◊〉 cap. . sect . . d e a b c d crell . cap. . sect . . e a §. . obj●ctions answered . b c d e a §. . the freeness of grace asserted in scripture , destroys not satisfaction . b c d gen. . . e job . . a b c d e a discourse in vindication of the doctrine of the trinity with an answer to the late socinian objections against it from scripture, antiquity and reason, and a preface concerning the different explications of the trinity, and the tendency of the present socinian controversie / by the right reverend father in god edward, lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a discourse in vindication of the doctrine of the trinity with an answer to the late socinian objections against it from scripture, antiquity and reason, and a preface concerning the different explications of the trinity, and the tendency of the present socinian controversie / by the right reverend father in god edward, lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], lxii, [ ], p. printed by j.h. for henry mortlock ..., london : . reproduction of original in cambridge university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng trinity -- early works to . socinianism -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a discourse in vindication of the doctrine of the trinity : with an answer to the late socinian objections against it from scripture , antiquity and reason . and a preface concerning the different explications of the trinity , and the tendency of the present socinian controversie . by the right reverend father in god , edward , lord bishop of worcester . london , printed by i. h. for henry mortlock at the phoenix in s. paul's church-yard , . the preface . when i was desir'd , not long since , to reprint the discourse lately published , concerning the doctrine of christ's satisfaction , i thought it necessary to look into the socinian pamphlets , ( which have swarmed so much among us within a few years ) to see how far an answer had been given in them to any of the arguments contained in it ; but i found the writers of them thought it not for their purpose to take any notice at all of it ; but rather endeavour'd to turn the controversie quite another way , and to cover their true sense under more plausible expressions . of which i have given a full account in the preface to the late edition of it . but among those treatises which ●or the general good of the nation are gather●d into volumes and dispers'd abroad to make either proselytes or infidels ) i found one , wherein there is p●etended to be an answer to my sermon about the mysteries of the christian faith , ( reprinted with the former discourse ▪ ) and therein i meet with a passage , which hath given occasion to this vindication . for there are these words , that i had utterly mistaken , in thinking that they deny the articl●s of the new creed , or athanasian religion , because they are mysteries , or because , say they , we do not comprehend them ; we deny them , because we do comprehend them , we have a clear and distinct perception , that they are not mysteries , but contradictions , impossibilities and pure nonsense . which words contain in them so spitefull , so unjust , and so unreasonable a charge upon the christian church in general , and our own in particular ▪ that i could not but think my self concerned , especially since they are addressed to me , to do what in me lay ( as soon as my uncertain state of health would permit ) towards the clearing the fundamental mystery of the athanasian religion , as they call it , viz. the doctrine of the trinity , ( which is chiefly struck at by them ) without running into any new explications , or laying aside any old terms , for which i could not see any just occasion . for however thoughtfull men may think to escape some particular difficulties better , by going out of the common roads ; yet they may meet with others , which they did not foresee , which may make them as well as others judge it , at last , a wiser and safer course to keep in the same way , which the christian church hath used , ever since it hath agreed to express her sense in such terms , which were thought most proper for that purpose . for in such cases , the original and critical signification of words is not so much to be attended , as the use they are applied to , and since no other can be found more significant or proper for that end ; it looks like yielding too great advantage to our adversaries , to give up the boundaries of our faith. for although there be a difference between the necessary article of faith it self , and the manner of expressing it , so that those may truely believe the substance of it , who differ in the explication ; yet since the sense of the article hath been generally received under those terms , there seems to be no sufficient reason to substitute new ones instead of the old , which can hardly be done , without reflecting on the honour of the christian church , and giving occasion for very unreasonable heats and disputes , among those , who , if we may believe their own words , agree in the same fundamental doctrine ; viz. a trinity in unity , or three persons in the same undivided divine essence . i am so little a friend to any such heats and differences among our selves especially when we are so violently attacked by our common adversaries , that were there no other reason , i should for the sake of that alone forbear making use of new explications ; but there is another too obvious , which is , the mighty advantage they have taken from hence to represent our doctrine as uncertain , as well as unintelligi●le . for as soon as our unitarians began to appear with that briskness and boldness they have done now for several years , some of our divines thought themselves obliged to write in defence of the doctrine of the trinity . thence came several answers to them , and in several methods , as the persons thought most subservient to the same end ; but whatever their intentions were , our adversaries were too much pleased to conceal the satisfaction which they took in it . for soon after , we had the several explications set forth and compared with each other ; and all managed so , as to make the cause to suffer by the disagreement of the advocates for it . and from hence they have formed a fivefold trinity . . the ciceronian trinity , because tully had used the word personae for different respects ; sustineo ego tres personas ; and according to this acceptation , three persons in the godhead are no more than three relations , capacities or respects of god to his creatures , which say they , is downright sabellianism : and is no manner of mystery , but the most intelligible and obvious thing in the world. . the cartesian trinity , which maketh three divine persons , and three infinite minds , spirits and beings to be but one god. . the platonick trinity , of three divine co-eternal persons , whereof the second and third are subordinate or inferiour to the first in dignity , power , and all other qualities , except only duration . . the aristotelian trinity , which saith the divine persons are one god , because they have one and the same numerical substance . . the trinity of the mobile , or that which is held by the common people , or by such lazy divines , who only say in short , that it is an unconceivable mystery ; and that those are as much in fault who go about to explain it , as those who oppose it . but that which hath made the most noise , and caused the greatest heat and ferment among us , hath been a difference first begun between two learned divines of our church , about the second and fourth ; and the account which our unitarians give of both is this , that the one is a rational and intelligible explication , but not true nor orthodox ; the other is true and orthodox , but neither rational , intelligible nor possible . i do not mention this , as though their words were to be taken as to either ; but only to shew what advantage they take from both , to represent that which is set up for the churches doctrine , either not to be truly so , or to be neither rational nor intelligible . the design of the following discourse , is to make it appear , ( . ) that the churches doctrine , as to the trinity , as it is expressed in the athanasian creed , is not liable to their charges of contradiction , impossibilities and pure nonsense . ( . ) that we own no other doctrine than what hath been received by the christian church in the several ages from the apostles times : ( . ) and that there are no objections in point of reason , which ought to hinder our assent to this great point of the christian faith. but the chief design of this preface , is to remove this prejudice which lies in our way from the different manners of explication , and the warm disputes which have been occasion'd by them . it cannot be denied , that our adversaries have taken all possible advantage against us from these unhappy differences ; and in one of their latest discourses they glory in it , and think they have therein out-done the foreign unitarians : for , say they , we have shewed , that their faiths concerning this pretended mystery are so many and so contrary , that they are less one party among themselves , than the far more learned and greater number of them are one party with us : this is spoken of those they call nominal trinitarians ; and for the other whom they call real , they prove them guilty of manifest heresie ; the one they call sabellians , which they say is the same with unitarians , and the other polytheists or disguised pagans , and they borrow arguments from one side to prove the charge upon the other ; and they confidently affirm that all that speak out in this matter , must be driven either to sabellianism , or tritheism . if they are nominal trinitarians , they fall into the former , if real , into the latter . this is the whole design of this late discourse , which i shall here examine , that i may remove this stumbling block , before i enter upon the main business . . as to those who are called nominal trinitarians . who are they ? and from whence comes such a denomination ? they tell us , that they are such who believe three persons , who are persons in name only ; indeed and in truth they are but one subsisting person . but where are these to be found ▪ among all such , say they , as agree that there is but one only and self-same divine essence and substance . but do these assert , that there is but one subsisting person , and three only in name ? let any one be produced who hath written in defence of the trinity ; for those who have been most charged , have utterly deny'd it that learned person , who is more particularly reflected upon in this charge , is by them said to affirm , that god is one divine intellectual substance , or really subsisting person , and distinguished and diversified by three relative modes , or relative subsistences . and mr. hooker is produc'd to the same purpose , that there is but one substance in god , and three distinct rela●ive properties , which substance being taken with its peculiar property , makes the distinction of persons in the godhead . but say they , these modes and properties do not make any real subsisting persons ; but only in a grammatical and critical sense , and at most , this is no more than one man may be said to be three persons on the account of different relations , as solomon was son of david , father of rehoboam , and proceeding from david and bathsheba , and yet was but one subsisting p●rson . this is the force of what they say . but then in a triumphing manner they add , that the realists have so manifest an advantage against them , that they have no way to de●end themselves but by recrimination , i. e. by shewing the like absurdity in their doctrine . and thus they hope either side will baffle the other , and in the mean time , the cause be lost between them . but in so nice a matter as this , we must not rely too much on an adversaries representation ; for the leaving out some expressions , may make an opinion look with another appearance , than if all were taken together , it would have . we must therefore take notice of other passages which may help to give the true sense of the learned author , who is chiefly aimed at . . in the very same page he asserts , that each of the divine persons has an absolute nature distinctly belonging to him , though not a distinct absolute nature ; and to the same purpose in another place . . that the eternal father is and subsists as a father , by having a son , and communicating his essence to another . and elsewhere , that the relation between father and son is founded on that eternal act , by which the father communicates his divine nature to the son. . that the foundation of the doctrine of the trinity is this , . that there can be but one god. . that there is nothing in god but what is god. . that there can be no composition in the deity with any such positive real being , distinct from the deity it self . but the church finding in scripture mention of three , to whom distinctly the godhead does belong , expressed these three by the name of persons , and stated their personalities upon three distinct modes of subsistence , allotted to one and the same godhead , and these also distinguished from one another by three distinct relations . what do these men mean , to charge one who goes upon these grounds with sabellianism ? doth he make the three persons to be mere names , as s. basil in few words expresses the true nature of sabellianism , that it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , one thing with different denominations ? can the communicating the divine essence by the father to the son , be called a name , or a mode , or a respect only ? and these men of wonderfull subtilty , have not learnt to distinguish between persons and personalities . where is the least intimation given , that he look'd on the divine persons as modes and respects only ? that is impossible , since he owns a communication of the divine essence , and that each of the divine persons hath the divine nature belonging to him ; could it ever enter into any man's head to think , that he that owns this should own the other also ? but the personality is a thing of another consideration . for it is the reason of the distinction of persons in the same undivided nature . that there is a distinction , the scripture assures us ; and withall , that there is but one divine essence . how can this distinction be ? not by essential attributes , for those must be in the divine essence , and in every person alike , otherwise he hath not the entire divine nature ; not by accidents , as men are distinguished from each other , for the divine nature is not capable of these ; not by separate or divided substances , for that would be inconsistent with the perfect vnity of the godhead ; since therefore there can be no other way of distinction , we must consider how the scripture directs us i● this case ; and that acquaints us with the father , son and holy ghost , as having mutual relation to each other ; and there is no repugnancy therein to the divine nature , and therefore the distinction of the persons hath been fixed on that , as the most proper foundation for it . and these are called different modes of subsistence , on which the distinct personalities are founded , which can be no other than relative . but a person is that which results from the divine nature and subsistence together ; and although a person cannot be said to be a relative , consider'd as such , yet being joyned with the manner of subsistence , it doth imply a relation , and so a person may be said to be a relative being . but say they , if the three persons have all the same individual substance , then they are truly and properly only three modes ; and therefore a●though among men , personalities are distinct from the persons , because the persons are distinct intelligent substances , yet this cannot hold where there is but one individual substance . the question is , whether those they call nominal trinitarians , are liable to the charge of sabellianism ; the answer is , that they cannot , because they assert far more than three names , viz. that each person hath the divine nature distinctly belonging to him . but say they , these persons are but mere modes . no , say the other ; we do not say that the person is only a modus , but that it is the divine nature , or godhead subsisting under such a modus , so that the godhead is still included in it , joyned to it , and distinguished by it . grant all this , the vnitarians reply , yet where there is the same individual substance , the person can be only a modus . to which it is answer'd , that this individual substance hath three distinct ways of subsisting , according to which it subsists distinctly and differently in each of the three divine persons . so that here lies the main point , whether it be sabelliani●m , to assert the same individual substance under three such different modes of subsistence . if it be , the most learned and judicious of the fathers did not know what sabellianism meant ( as i have shewd at large in the following discourse ) for they utterly disowned sabellianism , and yet asserted , that the several hypostases consisted of peculiar properties in one and the same divine substance . but it is not the authority of fathers which they regard , for they serve them only as stones in the boys way when they quarrel , viz. to throw them at our heads . let us then examine this matter by reason without them . persons among men , say they , are distinguished from personalities , because they have distinct substances , therefore where there is but one substance , the person can be only a mode , and therefore the same with the personality . i answer , that the true original notion of personality is no more than a different mode of subsistence in the same common nature . for every such nature is in it self one and indivisible ; and the more perfect it is , the greater must its vnity be . for the first being is the most one ; and all division comes from distance and imperfection . the first foundation of distinction is diversity ; for if there were no diversity , there would be nothing but entire and perfect vnity . all diversity comes from two things , dissimilitud● and dependence . those philosophers ( called megarici ) did not think much amiss , who said , that if all things were alike , there would be but one substance or being in the world ; and what we now call different substances , would be only different modes of subsistence in the same individual nature . the difference of substances in created beings , arises from those two things . . a dissimilitude of accidents , both internal and external . . the will and power of god , whereby he gives them distinct and separate beings in the same common nature . as for instance , the nature or essence of a man consider'd in it self , is but one and indivisible ; but god gives a separate existence to every individual , whereby that common nature subsists in so many distinct substances , as there are individuals of that kind ; and every one of these substances is distinguished from all others ▪ not only by a separate internal vital principle and peculiar properties , but by such external accidents , as do very easily discriminate them from each other . and the subject of all these accidents is that peculiar substance , which god hath given to every individual , which in rational beings is called a person ; and so we grant that in all such created beings the personality doth suppose a distinct substance ; not from the nature of personality , but from the condition of the subject wherein it is . the personality in it self is but a different mode of subsistence in the same common nature , which is but one : but this personality being in such a subject as man is , it from thence follows ▪ that each person hath a peculiar substance of his own ; and not from the nature of personality . but when we come to consider a divine essence , which is most perfectly one , and is wholly uncapable of any separate existence or accidents , there can be no other way of distinction conceived in it , but by different modes of subsistence , or relative properties in the same divine essence . and herein we proceed , as we do in our other conceptions of the divine nature , i. e. we take away all imperfection from god , and attribute only that to him , which is agreeable to his divine perfections , although the manner of it may be above our comprehension . and if this be owning the trinity of the mob , i am not ashamed to own my self to be one of them ; but it is not out of lazyness or affected ignorance , but upon the greatest and most serious consideration . they may call this a trinity of cyphers , if they please , but i think more modest and decent language about these matters would become them as well as the things themselves much better . and they must prove a little better than they have done , that different modes of subsistence in the divine nature , or the relations of father and son are mere cyphers , which is so often mentioned in scripture , as a matter of very great consequence ; and that when we are baptized in the name of the father , son and holy ghost , we are baptized into a trinity of cyphers . but our unitarians proceed , and say that the same author affirms not only the personalities , but the persons to be merely relative . for he saith , that every person , as well as every personality in the trinity , is wholly relative . but it is plain he speaks there , not of the person in himself , but with respect to the manner of subsistence , or the relative properties belonging to them . but if the notion of a person doth besides the relative property , necessarily suppose the divine nature together with it ; how can a person then be imagined to be wholly relative ? but they urge , that which makes the first person in the trinity to be a person , makes him to be a father , and what makes him to be a father , makes him to be a person . and what follows from hence , but that the relative property is the foundation of the personality ? but by no means , that the person of the father is nothing but the relative property ? the instance of solomon is not at all to the purpose , unless we asserted three persons founded upon those different relations in his individual nature . who denies , that one person may have different respects , and yet be but one person subsisting ? where doth the scripture say , that the son of david , the father of rehoboam , and he that proceeded from david and bathsheba were three persons distinguished by those relative properties ? but here lies the foundation of what we believe as to the trinity ; we are assured from scripture , that there are three to whom the divine nature and attributes are given , and we are assured both from scripture and reason , that there can be but one divine essence ; and therefore every one of these must have the divine nature , and yet that can be but one. but it is a most unreasonable thing to charge those with sabellianism , who assert , that every person hath the divine nature distinctly belonging to him , and that the divine essence is communicated from the father to the son. did ever n●etus or sabellius , or any of their followers speak after this manner ? is the divine essence but a mere name , or a different respect only to mankind ? for the asserting such relative persons as have no essence at all , was the true sabellian doctrine , as will be made appear in the following discourse . and so much is confess'd by our unitarians themselves , for they say , that the sabellians held , that father , son and spirit are but only three names o● god given to him in scripture , by occasion of so many several dispensations towards the creature , and so he is but one subsisting person and three relative persons ; as he sustains the three names of father , son and spirit , which being the relations of god towards things without him , he is so many relative persons , or persons in a classical critical sense , i. e. persons without any essence belonging to them as such . but those who assert a communication of the divine essence to each person can never be guilty of sabellianism , if this be it , which themselves affirm . and so those called nominal trinitarians , are very unjustly so called , because they do really hold a trinity of persons in the unity of the godhead . . let us now see what charge they lay upon those whom they call real trinitarians : and they tell us , that the nominals will seem to be profound philosophers , deep sages in comparison with them . these are very obliging expressions to them in the beginning . but how do they make out this gross stupidity of theirs ? in short it is , that they stand condemned and anathematized as hereticks by a general council , and by all the moderns , and are every day challenged and impeached of tritheism , and cannot agree among themselves , but charge one another with great absurdities ; and in plain terms they charge them with nonsense in the thing , whereas the other lay only in words . because these assert three divine subsisting persons , three infinite spirits , minds or substances , as distinct as so many angels or men , each of them perfectly god , and yet all of them are but one god. to understand this matter rightly , we must consider that when the socinian pamphlets first came abroad , some years since , a learned and worthy person of our church , who had appear'd with great vigour and reason against our adversaries of the church of rome in the late reign ( which ought not to be forgotten ) undertook to defend the doctrine of the trinity against the history of the unitarians , and the notes on the athanasian creed ; but in the warmth of disputing , and out of a desire to make this matter more intelligible , he suffer'd himself to be carried beyond the ancient methods which the church hath used to express her sense by , still retaining the same fundamental article of three persons in one undivided essence , but explaining it in such a manner , as to make each person to have a peculiar and proper substance of his own . this gave so great an advantage to the author of those treatises , that in a little time , he set forth his notes with an appendix in answer to this new explication . wherein he charges him with heresie , tritheism and contradiction . the very same charges which have been since improved and carried on by others ; i wish i could say , without any unbecoming heat or reflections . but i shall now examine how far these charges have any ground , so as to affect the doctrine of the trinity , which is the chief end our adversaries aimed at , in heaping these reproaches upon one who appear'd so early , and with so much zeal to defend it . we are therefore to consider these things : . that a man may be very right in the belief of the article it self ; and yet may be mistaken in his explication of it . and this one of his keenest adversaries freely acknowledges . for he plainly distinguishes between the fundamental article and the manner of explaining it , and affirms , that a man may quit his explication without parting with the article it self . and so he may retain the article with his explication . but suppose a man to assent to the fundamental article it self , and be mistaken in his explication of it , can he be charged with heresie about this article ? for heresie must relate to the fundamental article to which he declares his hearty and unfeigned assent ; but here we suppose the mistake to lie only in the explication . as for instance , sabellianism is a condemned and exploded heresie , for it is contrary to the very doctrine of the trinity ; but suppose one who asserts the doctrine of three persons , should make them to be three modes , must such a one presently be charged with heresie , before we see whether his explication be consistent with the fundamental article or not ? for this is liable to very obvious objections , that the father begets a mode instead of a son , that we pray to three modes instead of three real persons , that modes are mutable things in their own nature , &c. but must we from hence conclude such a one guilty of heresie , when he declares , that he withall supposed them not to be mere modes , but that the divine essence is to be taken together with the mode to make a person ? yea , suppose some spitefull adversary should say , that it is a contradiction to say , that the same common nature can make a person with a mode superadded to it ▪ unless that be individuated , for a ●erson doth imply an individual nature , and not a mere relative mode . is this sufficient to charge such a person with the sabellian heresy , which he utterly disowns ? is not the like equity to be shew●d in another though different explication ? suppose then a person solemnly professes to own the fundamental doctrine of the trinity as much as any others ; but he thinks , that three persons must have distinct substances to make them persons , but so as to make no division or separation in the godhead , and that he cannot conceive a communication of the divine essence without this ; must this presently be run down as heresie , when he asserts at the same time three persons in the same undivided essence ? but this is said to be a contradiction ; so it was in the other case and not allow'd then and why should it be otherwise in this ? i speak not this to justifie such explications , but to shew that there is a difference between the heresie of denying an article , and a mistake in the explication of it . even the greatest heresie-makers in the world , distinguish between heresies and erroneous explications of articles of faith , as any one may find that looks into them . and even the inquisitors of heresie themselves allow the distinction between heresie and an erroneous proposition in faith , which amounts to the same with a mistaken explication of it ; and they all grant that there may be propositions that tend to heresie or savour of it , which cannot be condemned for heretical . and even pegna condemns melchior canus for being too cruel in asserting it to be heresie to contradict the general sense of divines , because the schools cannot make heresies . . it is frequently and solemnly affirmed by him , that the unity of the godhead is the most real , essential , indivisible , inseparable unity ; that there is but one divine nature , which is originally in the father , and is substantially communicated by the father to the son , as a distinct subsisting person , by an eternal ineffable generation , and to the holy ghost by an eternal and substantial procession from father and son. do the others who maintain a trinity deny this ? by no means . for we have already seen that they assert the same thing . so that they are fully agreed as to the main fundamental article . and even the unitarians yield , that from the beginning he asserted , that the three divine persons are in one undivided substance . wherein then lies the foundation of this mighty quarrel , and those unreasonable heats that men have fallen into about it ; to the great scandal of our church and religion ? in short it is this ; that the same author asserts , ( . ) that it is gross sabellianism to say , that there are not three personal minds , or spirits , or substances . ( . ) that a distinct substantial person must have a distinct substance of his own proper and peculiar to his own person . but he owns , that although there are three distinct persons , or minds , each of whom is distinctly and by himself god , yet there are not three gods , but one god , or one divinity ; which he saith , is intirely , and indivisibly , and inseparably in three distinct persons or minds . that the same one divine nature is wholly and entirely communicated by the eternal father to the eternal son and by the father and son to the eternal spirit without any division or separation ; and so it remains one still . this is the substance of this new explication , which hath raised such flames , that injunctions from authority were thought necessary to suppress them . but those can reach no farther than the restraint of mens tongues and pens about these matters , and unless something be found out to satisfie their minds and to remove misapprehensions , the present heat may be only cover'd over and kept in ; which when there is a vent given ▪ may break out into a more dangerous flame . therefore i shall endeavour to state and clear this matter so as to prevent any future eruption thereof , which will be done by considering how far they are agreed , and how far the remaining difference ought to be pursued . . they are agreed , that there are three distinct persons and but one godhead . . that there are no separate and divided substances in the trinity ; but the divine nature is wholly and entirely one and undivided . . that the divine essence is communicated from the father to the son , and from both to the holy spirit . so that the charge of sabellianism on those who reject this new explication is without ground . for no sabellian did or could assert a communication of the divine essence . which being agreed on both sides , the dispute turns upon this single point , whether a communicated essence , doth imply a distinct substance or not . on the one side it is said , that there being but one god , there can be but one divine essence , and if more essences more gods. on the other side , that since they own a communicated essence necessary to make a distinction of persons in the son and holy ghost , if the essence be not distinct , the foundation of distinct personalities is taken away . but how is this clear'd by the other party ? they say , that it is one peculiar prerogative of the divine nature and substance , founded in its infinite and therefore transcendent perfection , whereby it is capable of residing in more persons than one , and is accordingly communicated from the father to the son and holy ghost . so that the communication of the divine nature is owned to the persons of the son and holy ghost . but how then comes it not to make a distinct essence , as it makes distinct persons , by being communicated ? the answer we see is , that it is a peculiar prerogative founded on the infinite and therefore transcendent perfection of the divine nature . but they further add , that when the son and holy ghost are said to have the same divine nature from the father , as the origin and fountain of the divinity ; not by the production of a new divine nature but by a communication of his own ; which is one and the same in all three without separation , difference , or distinction ; that this is indeed a great mystery , which hath been always look'd upon by the greatest and wisest men in the church , to be above all expressions and description . so that the greatest difficulty is at last resolved into the incomprehensible perfection of the divine nature ; and that neither man nor angels can give a satisfactory answer to enquiries about the manner of them . and the author of the animadversions saith , that in the divine persons of the trinity , the divine nature and the personal subsistence coalesce into one , by an incomprehensible , ineffable kind of union and conjunction . but do those on the other side think , that the asserting three distinct substances in one and the same individual substance tends to clear and explain the notion of the trinity and make it more easie and intelligible ? the divinity , they say , is whole , intire , indivisible , and inseparable in all three . but can one whole entire indivisible substance be actually divided into three substances ? for if every person must have a peculiar substance of his own ; and there be three persons , there must be three peculiar substances , and how can there be three peculiar substances , and yet but one entire and indivisible substance ? i do not say , there must be three divided substances in place , or separate substances , but they must be divided as three individuals of the same kind , which must introduce a specifick divine nature , which i think very inconsistent with the divine perfections ; but of this at large in the following discourse . i do not lay any force upon this argument , that there can be no ground of the distinction between the three substances , if there be but one substance in the godhead , ( as some have done ) because the same substance cannot both unite and distinguish them ; for the ground of the distinction is not the substance but the communication of it , and where that is so freely asserted , there is a reason distinct from the substance it self , which makes the distinction of persons . but the difficulty still remains , how each person should have a substance of his own ; and yet there be but one entire and indivisible substance , for every person must have a proper substance of his own ; or else according to this hypothesis , he can be no person ; and this peculiar substance must be really distinct from that substance which is in the other two : so that here must be three distinct substances in the three persons . but how then can there be but one individual essence in all three ? we may conceive one common essence to be individuated in three persons , as it is in men ; but it is impossible to conceive the same individual essence to be in three persons , which have peculiar substances of their own . for the substances belonging to the persons , are the same essence individuated in those persons : and so there is no avoiding making three individual essences and one specifick or common divine nature . and maimonides his argument is considerable against more gods than one ; if , saith he , there be two gods , there mu●t be something wherein they agree , and something wherein they differ ; that wherein they agree must be that which makes each of them god ; and that wherein they differ must make them two gods. now wherein doth this differ from the present hypothesis ? there is something wherein they differ , and that is their proper substance ; but maimonides thought that wherein they differ'd sufficient to make them two gods. so that i fear it will be impossible to clear this hypothesis as to the reconciling three individual essences with one individual divine essence , which looks too like asserting that there are three gods and yet but one . and the author of this explica●ion doth at last confess , that three distinct whole inseparable same 's , are hard to conceive as to the manner of it . now to what purpose are new explications started and disputes raised and carried on so warmly about them , if after all , the main difficulty be confess'd to be above our comprehension ? we had much better satisfie our selves with that language which the church hath receiv●d and is express'd in the creeds , than go about by new terms , to raise new ferments , especially at a time , when our united forces are most necessary against our common adversaries . no wise and good men can be fond of any new inventions , when the peace of the church is hazarded by them . and on the other side , it is as dangerous to make new heresies as new explications . if any one denies the doctrine contained in the nicene creed , that is no new heresie ; but how can such deny the son to be consubstantial to the father , who assert one and the same indivisible substance in the father and the son ? but they may contradict themselves . that is not impossible on either side . but doth it follow that they are guilty of heresie ? are not three substances and but one a contradiction ? no more , say they , than that a communicated substance is not distinct from that which did communicate . but this whole dispute we find is at last resolved into the infinite and unconceivable perfections of the godhead , where it is most safely lodged ; and that there is no real contradiction in the doctrine it self , is part of the design of the discourse afterwards . but here it will be necessary to take notice of what the unitarians have objected against this new explication , viz. that it was condemned by the ancients in the person of philoponus ; in the middle ages , in the person and writings of abhor ioachim ; but more severely since the reformation , in the person of valentinus gentilis , who was condemned at geneva , and beheaded at bern for this very doctrine . to these i shall give a distinct answer : . as to joh philoponus , i do freely own , that in the greek church , when in the sixth century he broached his opinion , that every hypostasis must have the common nature individuated in it , this was look'd upon as a doctrine of dangerous consequence , both with respect to the trinity and incarnation . the latter was the first occasion of it ; for as leontius observes , the dispute did not begin about the trinity , but about the incarnation ; and philoponus took part with those who asserted but one nature in christ after the vnion , and he went upon this ground , that if there were two natures there must be two hypostases , because nature and hypostasis were the same . then those on the churches side , saith leontius , objected , that if they were the same , there must be three distinct natures in the trinity , as there were three hypostases ; which philoponus yielded , and grounded himself on aristotle's doctrine , that there was but one common substance and several individual substances , and so held it was in the trinity , whence he was called the leader of the heresie of the tritheius . this is the account given by leontius who lived very ●ear his time , a. d. . the same is affirmed of him by nicephorus , and that he wrote a book on purpose about the vnion of two natures in christ , out of which he produces his own words concerning a common and individual nature , ( which he calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) which can agree to none else . and the main argument he went upon was this , that unless we assert a singular nature in the hypostases , we must say , that the whole trinity was incarnate ; as unless there be a singular humane nature distinct from the common , christ must assume the whole nature of mankind . and this argument from the incarnation , was that which made roscelin , in the beginning of the disputing age , a. d. , to assert , that the three persons were three things distinct from each other , as three angels or three men , because otherwise the incarnation of the second person could not be understood , as appears by anselm's epistles , and his book of the incarnation written upon that occasion . but as a●selm shews at large , if this argument hold , it must prove the three persons not only to be distinct , but separate and divided sub●●ances , ( which is directly contrary to this new explication ) and then there is no avoiding tritheism . but to return to joh. philoponus , who , saith nicephorus , divided the indivisible nature of god into three individuals as among men : which , saith he , is repugnant to the sense of the christian church ; and he produces the testimony of gregory nazianzen against it , and adds , that leontius and georgius pisides confuted philoponus . but in that divided time . there were some called theodosiani , who made but one nature and one hypostasis ; and so fell in with the sabellians ; but others held , that there was one immutable divine essence , but each person had a distinct individual nature : which the rest charged with tritheism . which consequence they utterly rejected , because although they held three distinct natures , yet they said , they were but one god , because there was but one invariable divinity in them . nicephorus saith , that conon's followers rejected philoponus ; but photius mentions a conference between conon and others , a●out philoponus , wherein he defends him against other severians . photius grants , that conon and his followers held a consubstantial trinity and the unity of the godhead , and so far they were orthodox : but saith , they were far from it , when they asserted proper and peculiar substances to each person . the difference between conon and philoponus about this point , ( for conon wrote against philoponus about the resurrection ) seems to have been partly in the doctrine , but chiefly in the consequence of it ; for these rejected all kind of tritheism , which philoponus saw well enough must follow from his doctrine , but he denied any real division or separation in those substances as to the deity . isidore saith , that the tritheists owned three gods , as well as three persons ; and that if god be said to be triple , there must follow a plurality of gods. but there were others called triformiani , of whom s. augustin speaks . who held the three persons to be three distinct parts , which being united made one god ; which , saith he , is repugnant to the divine perfection . but among these severians , there were three several opinions : . of philoponus , who held one common nature and three individual . . of those who said there was but one nature and one hypostasis . . of those who affirm'd there were three distinct natures , but withal , that there was but one indivisible godhead ; and these differ'd from philoponus in the main ground of tritheism , which was , that he held the common nature in the trinity , to be only a specifick nature , and such as it is among men. for philoponus himself in the words which nicephorus produces , doth assert plainly , that the common nature is separated from the individuals , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by a mere act of the mind ; so that he allow'd no individual vnity in the divine nature , but what was in the several persons ; as the common nature of man is a notion of the mind , as it is abstracted from the several individuals , wherein alone it really subsists ; so that here is an apparent difference between the doctrine of joh. philoponus and the new explication , for herein the most real , essential and indivisible unity of the divine nature is asserted ; and it is said to be no species , because it is but one , and so it could not be condemned in joh. philoponus . we now come to abbat joachim , whose doctrine seems to be as much mistaken , as it is represented in the decretal , where the condemnation of it by the lateran council is extant . but here i cannot but observe what great authority these unitarians give to this lateran council , as if they had a mind to set up transubstantiation by it , which they so often parallel with the trinity . thence in their late discourse they speak of it as the most general council that was ever called , and that what was there defined , it was made heresie to oppose it . but by their favour , we neither own this to have been a general council , nor that it had authority to make that heresie which was not so before . but that council might assert the doctrine of the trinity truly , as it had been receiv'd , and condemn the opinion of joachim justly but what it was , they do not or would not seem to understand . joachim was a great enthusiast , but no deep divine ( as men of that heat seldom are ) and he had many disputes with peter lombard in his life , as the vindicator of joachim confesses . after his death , a book of his was found , taxing peter lombard with some strange doctrine about the trinity , wherein he called him heretick and madman ; this book was complained of in the lateran council , and upon examination it was sound , that instead of charging peter lombard justly , he was fallen into heresie himself , which was denying the essential vnity of the three persons , and making it to be vnity of consent . he granted that they were one essence , one nature , one substance : but how ? not by any true proper unity , but similitudinary and collective , as they called it , as many men are one people , and many believers make one church . whence thomas aquinas saith , that joachim fell into the arian heresie . it is sufficient to my purpose , that he denied the individual vnity of the divine essence , which cannot be charged on the author of the new explication , and so this comes not home to the purpose . . but the last charge is the most terrible , for it not only sets down the heresie , but the capital punishment which follow'd it . yet i shall make it appear , ( notwithstanding the very warm prosecution of it by another hand ) that there is a great difference between the doctrine of valentinus gentilis , and that which is asserted in this explication . . in the sentence of his condemnation it is expressed , that he had been guilty of the vilest scurrility and most horrid blasphemies against the son of god and the glorious mystery of the trinity . but can any thing of this nature be charged upon one , who hath not only written in defence of it , but speaks of it with the highest veneration ? . in the same sentence it is said , that he acknowledged the father only to be that infinite god which we ought to worship , which is plain blasphemy against the son. but can any men ever think to make this the same case with one , who makes use of that as one of his chief arguments , that the three persons are to be worshipped with a distinct divine worship ? . it is charged upon him , that he called the trinity a mere human invention , not so much as known to any catholick creed , and directly contrary to the word of god. but the author here charged , hath made it his business to prove the doctrine of the trinity to be grounded on scripture and to vindicate it from the objections drawn from thence against it . . one of the main articles of his charge was , that he made three spirits of different order and degree , that the father is the one only god , by which the son and holy ghost are excluded manifestly from the unity of the godhead ; but the person charged with his heresie saith , the reason why we must not say three gods , is , because there is but one and the same divinity in them all ; and that entirely , indivisibly , inseparably . but it is said , that although there may be some differences , yet they agree in asserting , that there are three distinct eternal spirits or minds in the trinity ; and genebrard is brought into the same heresie with them but genebrard with great indignation rejects the doctrine of valentinus gentilis , because he held an inequality in the persons , and denied the individual vnity of the godhead in them ; but he saith , he follow'd damascen in asserting three real hypostases ; and he utterly denies tritheism , and he brings a multitude of reasons , why the charge of tritheism doth not lie against his opinion , although he owns the hypostases to be three distinct individuals , but then he adds , that there is an indivisible and insep●rable union of the divine nature in all three persons . now to deal as impartially in this matter as may be , i do not think our understandings one jot helped in the notion of the trinity by this hypothesis ; but that it is liable to as great difficulties as any other , and therefore none ought to be fond of it , or to set it against the general sense of others , and the current expressions of divines about these mysteries ; nor to call the different opinions of others heresie or nonsense , which are provoking words , and tend very much to inflame mens passions , because their faith and vnderstanding are both call'd in question , which are very tender things . but on the other side , a difference ought to be made between the heresie and blasphemy of valentinus gentilis , and the opinion of such who maintain the individual and indivisible unity of the godhead ; but withal , believe that every person hath an individual substance as a person , and that sabellianism cannot be avoided otherwise . wherein i think they are mistaken , and that the fathers were of another opinion ; and that our church owns but one substance in the godhead , as the western church always did , ( which made such difficulty about receiving three hypostases , because they took hypostasis for a substance ) but yet i see no reason why those who assert three hypostases , and mean three individual substances should be charged with the heresie of valentinus gentilis , or so much as with that of abba● joachim or philoponus , because they all rejected the individual unity of the divine nature , which is constantly maintained by the defenders of the other hypothesis . but it is said and urged with vehemency , that these two things are inconsistent with each other ; that it is going forward and backward , being orthodox in one breath and otherwise in the next ; that all this looks like shuffling and concealing the true meaning , and acting the old artifices under a different form. for the samosatenians and arians , when they were pinched , seem'd very orthodox in their expressions , but retained their heresies still in their minds ; and there is reason to suspect the same game is playing over again , and we cannot be too cautious in a matter of such consequence . i grant very great caution is needfull , but the mixture of some charity with it will do no hurt . why should we suspect those to be inwardly false , and to think otherwise than they speak , who have shew'd no want of courage and zeal , at a time when some thought it prudence to say nothing , and never call'd upon their superiours then to own the cause of god , and to do their duties as they have now done , and that in no very obliging manner ? and if the same men can be cool and unconcerned at some times , ( when there was so great reason to be otherwise ) and of a sudden grow very warm , and even to boil over with zeal ; the world is so ill natur'd , as to be too apt to conclude there is some other cause of such an alteration than what openly appears . but there is a kind of bitter zeal , which is so fierce and violent , that it rather inflames than heals any wounds that are made ; and is of so malignant a nature , that it spreads and eats like a cancer , and if a stop were not given to it , it might endanger the whole body . i am very sensible how little a man consults his own ease , who offers to interpose in a dispute between men of heat and animosity ; but this moves me very little , when the interest of our church and religion is concerned , which ought to prevail more than the fear of displeasing one or other party , or it may be both . i do heartily wish , that all who are equally concerned in the common cause , would lay aside heats , and prejudices , and hard words , and consider this matter impartially ; and i do not question , but they will see cause to judge , as i do , that the difference is not so great as our adversaries for their own advantage make it to be . and since both sides yield , that the matter they dispute about is above their reach , the wisest course they can take is to assert and defend what is revealed , and not to be too peremptory and quarrelsom about that which is acknowledged to be above our comprehension , i mean as to the manner how the three persons partake of the divine nature . it would be of the most fatal consequence to us , if those weapons , which might be so usefully imploy'd against our common adversaries , should still be turned upon one another . i know no manner of advantage they have against us , but from thence , and this is it which makes them write with such insolence and scorn towards those who are far their superiours in learning and wit , as well as in the goodness of their cause . and is it possible that some of our most skilfull fencers should play prizes before them , who plainly animate them against each other for their own diversion and interest ? sometimes one hath the better , sometimes the other , and one is cried up in opposition to the other , but taken alone is used with the greatest contempt . one man's work is said to be learned and accurate , and the more , because it follows , that he concerns not himself with the socinians . the wiser man no doubt , for that reason . at another time it is called the birth of the mountains , and the author parallel'd with no less a man than don quixot , and his elaborate writings with his adventures , and they ridicule his notion of modes as if they were only so many gambols and postures . and then for his adversary , they hearten and incourage him all they can ; they tell him , he must not allow to the other the least title of all he contends for , least their sport should be spoiled ; and to comfort him , they tell him , that his adversary is a socinian at bottom , and doth not know it ; that all his thingums , modes , properties are only an addition of words and names , and not of persons properly so called , and that his whole scheme is nothing but socinianism drest up in the absurd cant of the schools . that his book hath much more scurrility than argument , that his usage of him was barbarous , and a greater soloecism in manners , than any he accuses him of in grammar or speech ; and in short , that his explication of the trinity is a great piece of nonsense , ( though it comes so near to socinianism . ) but how doth the other antagonist escape ? what , nothing but good words to him ? in this place they had a mind to keep him in heart , and only charge him with a heresie which they laugh at ; but in another place , they set him out with such colours , as shew they intended only to play one upon the other . they charge him not only with heresie but polytheism , which , they say , is next to atheism ; that his vindication is a supercilious , disdainfull and peevish answer : that he had neither humanity nor good manners left : that there is nothing considerable in his books but what he borrow'd from them. these are some of the flowers which they bestow on these persons of reputation in polemick squabble as they call it , which plainly shew , that their aim is , as much as may be , to divide and then to expose us . and shall we still go on to gratifie this insulting humour of theirs , by contending with one another , and afford them still new matter for books against both ? as we may see in their late discourse about nominal and real trinitarians , which was intended for a rare shew , wherein the two parties are represented as combating with one another , and they stand by and triumph over these cadmean brethren , as they call them . neither are they the socinians only , but those who despise all religion ( who i doubt are the far greater number ) are very much entertained with such encounters between men of wit and parts , because they think , and they do not think amiss , that religion it self will be the greatest sufferer by them at last : and this is the most dangerous , but i hope not the most prevailing party of men among us . the socinians profess themselves christians , and i hope are so , ( especially if but one article of faith be required to make men so ) but i cannot but observe that in the late socinian pamphlets , there is too strong a biass towards deism , ( which consideration alone should make us unite and look more narrowly to their steps . ) i do not charge their writers with a professed design to advance deism among us ; but their way of managing their disputes , is as if they had a mind to serve them . and such men who are enemies to all revealed religion , could not find out better tools for their purpose than they are . for they know very well , that in such a nation as ours , which is really concerned for the profession of religion one way or other , there is no opening professed schools of atheism ; but the design must be carried on under some shew of religion . and nothing serves their turn so well , as setting up natural religion in opposition to revealed . for this is the way by degrees to loosen and unhinge the faith of most men , which with great reason is built on the scripture as the surest foundation . but here it is fit to observe the several steps they take in order to this advancing deism , and how our unitarians have complied with all of them . i. the first point they are to gain is , the lessening the authority of scripture , and if this be once done , they know mens minds will be left so roving and uncertain , that they will soon fall into scepticism and infidelity . ii. the next is , to represent church-men as persons of interest and design , who maintain religion only because it supports them ; and this they call priest-cra●t , and if they can by this means take away their authority too , the way lies still more open for them ; for it is more easie to make a prey of the flock , when the shepherds are suspected only to look after their fleeces . since such a suspicion takes away all trust and confidence in their guides ; and they know very well , how little others will be able to defend themselves . iii. another step is , to magnifie the deists as men of probity and good sense ; that assert the just liberties of mankind , against that terrible thing called priest-craft ; and that would rescue religion from false glosses and absurd notions taken up from the schools and taught in the universities , on purpose to keep under those principles of universal liberty as to opinions , which those of freer minds endeavour to promote . but especially they are great enemies to all mysteries of faith , as unreasonable impositions on those of more refined vnderstandings , and of clear and distinct perceptions , as they have learnt to express themselves . these they account intolerable vsurpations on men of such elevations as themselves ; for mysteries are only for the mob , and not for persons of such noble capacities . iv. the last thing is , to represent all religions as indifferent , since they agree in the common principles of natural religion , especially the vnity of god , and all the rest is but according to the different inventions of men , the skill of the contrivers , and the several humors and inclinations of mankind . these are the chief mysteries of deism in our age ; for even deism hath its mysteries , and it is it self a mystery of iniquity , which i am afraid is too much working already among us , and will be more if no effectual stop be put to it . i call it deism , because that name obtains now , as more plausible and modish ; for atheism is a rude unmannerly word , and exposes men to the rabble , and makes persons shun the company and avoid the conversation and dealing with such who are noted for it . and this would be a mighty prejudice to them , as to their interests in this world , which they have reason to value . but to be a deist , seems to be only a setting up for having more wit , than to be cheated by the priests , and imposed upon by the common forms of religion , which serve well enough for ordinary people that want sense , and are not skill●d in demonstrations ; but the deists are so wise as to see through all these things . and therefore this name gains a reputation among all such as hate religion , but know not how otherwise to distinguish themselves from prosessed atheists , which they would by no means be taken for ; although if they be pressed home , very few among them will sincerely own any more than a series of causes , without any intellectual perfections , which they call god. a strange god without wisdom , goodness , iustice or providence ! but i am now to shew , how in all these points the present unitarians have been very serviceable to them , in the books which they have lately published and dispersed both in city and country . . as to the authority of scripture : they have been already justly exposed for undermining the authority of s. john's gospel , by mustering up all the arguments of the old hereticks against it , and giving no answers to them . and what defence have they since made for themselves ? no other but this very trifling one , that they repeat their reasons but do not affirm them . what is the meaning of this ? if they are true , why do they not affirm them ? if they are false , why do they not answer them ? is this done like those who believe the gospel of s. john to be divine , to produce all the arguments they could meet with against it ; and never offer to shew the weakness : and vnreasonableness of them ? doth not this look like a design to furnish the deists with such arguments as they could meet with against it ? especially , when they say , that s. iohn doth not oppose them why then are these arguments produced against his gospel ? men do not use to dispute against their friends , nor to tell the world what all people have said against them , and give not a word of answer in vindication of them . but they say , the modern vnitarians allow of the gospel and other pieces of s. iohn . a very great favour indeed , to allow of them . but how far ? as of divine authority ? not a word of that . but as ancient books which they think it not fit for them to dispute against . but if the ancient ebionites were their predecessors , as they affirm , they can allow none but the gospel according to the hebrews ; and must reject the rest and all s. paul's epistles ; and in truth , they make him argue so little to the purpose , that they must have a very mean opinion of his writings . but of these things in the discourse it self . as to church-men , no professed deists could express themselves more spitefully than they have done , and that against those to whom they profess the greatest respect . what then would they say of the rest ? they say in general , that it is natural to worldlings , to mercenary spirits , to the timorous and ambitious ; in a word , to all such as preferr not god before all other , whether persons or considerations , to believe as they would have it . but although the words be general , yet any one that looks into them may s●e● find that they were intended for such church-men who had written against their opinions . and the insinuation is , that if it were not for worldly interests , they would own them to be in the right . whereas i am fully perswaded , that they have no way to defend their opinions , but to reject the scriptures and declare themselves deists ; and as long as we retain a just veneration for the scripture , we can be of no other opinion , because we look on their interpretations as unreasonable , new , forced , and inconsistent with the circumstances of places and the main scope and tenor of the new testament . but their introduction to the answer to the late archbishop's sermons about the trinity and incarnation , shew their temper sufficiently as to all church-men . he was the person they professed to esteem and reverence above all others , and confess that he instructs them in the air and language of a father , ( which at least deserved a little more dutifull language from them . ) but some mens fondness for their opinions breaks all bounds of civility and decency ; for presently after , mentioning the archbishop and other bishops who had written against them , they say it signifies nothing to the case , that they are great pensioners of the world. for it is certain we have a mighty propensity to believe as is for our turn and interest . and soon after , that their opposers are under the power of such fatal biasses , that their doctrine is the more to be suspected because it is theirs . for the reason why they maintain the doctrine of the trinity is , because they must . the plain meaning of all this is , that the late archbishop ( as well as the rest ) was a mere self-interested man , ( which none who knew either the outside or inside of lambeth could ever imagine ) that if he were really against them ( as none could think otherwise , who knew him so well and so long as i did ) it only shew'd what a strange power , interest hath in the minds of all church-men . but what bias was it , which made him write with that strength and iudgment against their opinions ? let us set aside all titles of respect and honour as they desire , let reason be compared with reason ; and his arguments with their answers ; and it will be soon found that the advantage which he had , was not from any other dignity than that of a clearer iudgment , and a much stronger way of reasoning whereas their answers are such , as may well be supposed to come from those , who had some such bias , that they must at least seem to answer what in truth they could not . as hath been fully made appear in the vindication of him , to which no reply hath been given , although other treatises of theirs have come out since . in the conclusion of that answer they say , that they did not expect that their answer should satisfie us , and in truth they had a great deal of reason to think so . but what reason do they give for it ? a very kind one no doubt ; because prepossession and interest have taken hold of us . as though we were men of such mean and mercenary spirits , as to believe according to prepossession without reason , and to act only as serves our present interest . but we never made mean addresses to infidels to shew how near our principles came to theirs , nor made parallels between the trinity and transubstantiation , as some did , and defended them , as well as they could , when popery was uppermost . but enough of this . . we have seen how much they have gratified the deists by representing church-men in such a manner , let us now see in what manner they treat the deists . it is with another sort of language ; and which argues a more than ordinary kindness to them . in one place they say , that the deists are mostly well-natured men , and men , of probity and understanding ; in effect that they are sincere honest-hearted men , who do good by the impulse of their natural religion , honesty and good conscience , which have great influence upon them . what another sort of character is this from that of the greatest , and in their opinion the best of our clergy ? this must proceed from some intimacy and familiarity with them ; and it is easie to imagine from hence , that they are upon very good terms with one another , because they must be unitarians , if they believe a god at all . but where else are these honest , conscientious deists to be found ? it is rare indeed for others to find any one that rejects christianity out of pure conscience , and that acts by principles of sincere virtue . i never yet could meet with such , nor hear of those that have . and i would fain know the reasons on which such conscientious men proceeded ; for truly the principles of natural religion are those which recommend christianity to me ; for without them the mysteries of faith would be far more unaccountable than now they are ; and supposing them , i see no incongruity in them , i. e. that there is a just and holy god , and a wise providence , and a future state of rewards and punishments ; and that god designs to bring mankind to happiness out of a state of misery ; let these be supposed , and the scheme of christianity will appear very reasonable and fitted to the condition and capacity of mankind . and the sublimest mysteries of it are not intended to puzzle or amuse mankind , as weak men imagine ; but they are discover'd for the greatest and best purposes in the world , to bring men to the hatred of sin and love of god , and a patient continuance in well-doing , in order to a blessed immortality . so that this is truly a mystery of godliness , being intended for the advancement of real piety and goodness among mankind in order to make them happy . but as to these unitarians , who have such happy acquaintance with these conscientious deists ; i would fain learn from them , if they think them mistaken , why they take no more pains to satisfie and convince them ; for i find they decline saying a word against them . in one place they compare the atheist and deist together ; and very honestly and like any conscientious deists , they impute all the deism and most part of the atheism of our age to the doctrines of the trinity and incarnation . is it possible for men that live in our age to give such an account as this of the growth of deism and atheism among us ? what number of atheists is there , upon any other account than from a looseness of thinking and living ? where are those who believe god to be an incomprehensible being , and yet reject the mysteries which relate to his being , because they are incomprehensible ? suppose any reject spiritual substance as nonsense and a contradiction , as they do the trinity on the same pretences . is this a sufficient reason or not ? they may tell them , as they do us that they can have no ideas , no clear and distinct perceptions of immaterial substances ? what answer do they give in this case ? not a syllable ; although they take notice of it . but i hope they give some better satisfaction to the deist ; no , for they say , this is not a place to argue against either atheist or deist . by no means : some would say , they were not such fools to fall out with their friends . and it cannot be denied , that they have been the greatest incouragers of such kind of writings , which serve their turn so well ; and in pure gratitude they forbear to argue against them . iv. to shew how near they come to an indifferency in religion , they speak favourably of mahometans , and jews , and even tartars , because they agree with them in the vnity of the godhead . what an honest-hearted deist do they make that impostor mahomet ? one would hardly think such a character could have come out of the mouth of christians . but these are their words , mahomet is affirmed by divers historians to have had no other design in pretending himself to be a prophet , but to restore the belief of the unity of god , which at that time was extirpated among the eastern christians by the doctrines of the trinity and incarnation . who are those historians who give this character of him ? why are they not named , that their authority might be examin'd ? was the morocco ambassador one of them ? or paulus alciatus , who from a unitarian turned mahometan ? but by the best accounts we can meet with , we find that he was a very cunning impostor , and took in from the jews and ishmaelites his countrymen , circumcision ; from the christians , an honourable mention of christ , as a prophet , and as the the word and spirit of god , and owned his miracles ; from the ancient hereticks he denied his suffering , but owned his being taken up into heaven . yea , he owned , that he had his gospel from heaven ; but that his disciples changed it after his death , and attributed more to christ than he assumed to himself . which shews that he had so much sence , as to discern , that if the books of the new testament were genuine , more must be given to christ , than either mahomet or the unitarians do allow . let any indifferent reader compare their character of mahomet with that of athanasius , which these men give , and they will easily find that they take as much care to blacken one , as they do to vindicate the other . what christian ingenuity is here ? but mahomet was a deist , and athanasius a trinitarian . but they go on . whatsoever the design of mahomet was , its certain , that mahometism hath prevailed over greater numbers and more nations , than at this day profess christianity . but how ? was it not by force of arms and the prevalency of the saracen and turkish empire ? no , say these learned historians , it was not by the force of the sword , but by that one truth in the alcoran the unity of god. it were endless to quote the historians , who say , that it was mahomet's principle , to subdue all by force of arms who opposed his religion ; but the authority of elmacinus alone is sufficient ; for in the beginning of his history he owns that it was his principle , to make war upon those that would not submit to his law. and others say , that in remembrance of this , their law is expounded by their doctors , with a sword drawn by them , and that it is the law of the alcoran to kill and slay those that oppose it . what liberty the turkish empire allows to christians in the conquer'd provinces is not to this purpose , but by what means mahometism prevailed in the world. but say they , the jews as well as mahometans are alienated from us , because they suppose the trinity to be the doctrine of all christians . and what then ? must we renounce the christian doctrine to please the jews and mahometans ? must we quit christ's being the messias , because the jews deny it ? or the suffering of christ , because the mahometans think it inconsistent with his honour ? but if this be the truth of the case , as to jews and mahometans ; no persons are so well qualified to endeavour their conversion , as our unitarians ; which would be a much better imployment for them , than to expose the christian doctrine by such writings among us . i am ashamed to mention what they say of the tartars , when they call them , the shield and sword of that way of acknowledging and worshipping god. so that mahometans , jews and tartars are fairly represented because they agree in the grand fundamental of the vnity of the godhead ; but the christian church is charged with believing impossibilities , contradictions , and pure nonsense . and thus we find our unitarians serving the deists in all their methods of overthrowing revealed religion and advancing deism among us . and if this will not awaken us to look more after them , and unite us in the defence of our common cause against them , i do not think that other methods will do it . for it is become a restless and active , although as yet , but a small body of men , and they tell the world plainly enough that they are free from the biasses of hopes and fears ; and sit loose from the awes and bribes of the world. so that there is no way of dealing with them , but by shewing the falsness & weakness of the grounds they go upon ; and that they have no advantage of us as to scripture , antiquity or reason : which is the design of this vndertaking . worcester , sept. . . e. w. the contents . chap. i. the occasion and design of the discourse . pag. . chap. ii. the doctrine of the trinity not receiv'd in the christian church by force or interest . p. . chap. iii. the socinian plea , for the antiquity of their doctrine , examined . p. . chap. iv. of the considerable men they pretend to have been of their opinion in the primitive church . p. . chap. v. of their charge of contradiction in the doctrine of the trinity . p. . chap. vi. no contradiction for three persons to be in one common nature . p. . chap. vii . the athanasian creed clear'd from contradictions . p. . chap. viii . the socinian sense of scripture examined . p. . chap. ix . the general sense of the christian church , proved from the form of baptism , as it was understood in the first ages . p. . chap. x. the objections against the trinity , in point of reason , answer'd . p. . errata . pag. . l. . for our r. one . p. . l. . r. heb. . . for unto which . p. . l. . add n. . p. . l. . for damascenus r. damascius . p. . l. . for appointed r. appropriated . p. . l. . after them put in not . p. . l. for we r. were . p. . l. . dele that . p. . l. . for hypostasis r. hypothesis . p. . l. . for intermission r. intromission . p. . l. . r. as well as . a discourse in vindication of the doctrine of the trinity : with an answer to the late socinian objections . chap. i. the occasion and design of this discourse . it is now above twenty years since i first published a discourse about the reasons of the sufferings of christ , ( lately reprinted ) in answer to some socinian objections at that time . but i know not how it came to pass , that the socinian controversy seemed to be laid asleep among us for many years after ; and so it had continued to this day , if some mens busie and indiscreet zeal for their own particular opinions ( or rather heresies ) had not been more prevalent over them , than their care and concernment for the common interest of christianity among us . for it is that which really suffers by these unhappy and very unseasonable disputes about the mysteries of the christian faith , which could never have been started and carried on with more fatal consequence to all revealed religion , than in an age too much inclined to scepticism and infidelity . for all who are but well-wishers to that , do greedily catch at any thing which tends to unsettle mens minds as to matters of faith , and to expose them to the scorn and contempt of infidels . and this is all the advantage which they have above others in their writings . for upon my carefull perusal of them ( which was occasion'd by re●rinting that discourse ) i found nothing extraordinary , as to depth of judgment , or closeness of reasoning , or strength of argument , or skill in scripture or antiquity , but the old stuff set out with a new dress , and too much suited to the genius of the age we live in , viz. brisk and airy , but withal too light and superficial . but although such a sort of raillery be very much unbecoming the weight and dignity of the subject ▪ yet that is not the worst part of the character of them ; for they seem to be written , not with a design to convince others , or to justifie themselves , but to ridicule the great mysteries of our faith , calling them iargon , cant , nonsense , impossibilities , contradictions , samaritanism , and what not ? any thing but mahometism and deism . and at the same time they know , that we have not framed these doctrines our selves ; but have received them by as universal a tradition and consent of the christian church , as that whereby we receive the books of the new testament , and as founded upon their authority . so that , as far as i can see , the truth of these doctrines and authority of those books must stand and fall together : for from the time of the writing and publishing of them all persons who were admitted into the christian church by the form of baptism , prescribed by our saviour , were understood to ●e received members upon profession of ●●e faith of the holy trinity ; the hymns and doxologies of the primitive church were to father , son and holy ghost ; and those who openly opposed that doctrine were cast out of the communion of it : which to me seem plain and demonstrative arg●ments , that this was the doctrine of the christian church from the beginning , as will appear in the progress of this discourse . the chief design whereof is to vindicate the doctrine of the trinity , as it hath been generally received in the christian church , and is expressed in the athanasian creed , from those horrible imputations of nonsense , contradiction and impossibility ; with which it is charged by our vnitarians ( as they call themselves ; ) and that in the answer to the sermon lately reprinted , about the mysteries of the christian faith : which i first preached and published some years since , upon the breaking out of this controversie among us , by the notes on athanasius his creed , and other mischievous pamphlets one upon another . i was in hopes to have given some check to their insolent way of writing about matters so much above our reach , by shewing how reasonable it was for us to submit to divine revelation in such things , since we must acknowledge our selves so much to seek , as to the nature of substances , which are continually before our eyes ; and therefore , if there were such difficulties about a mystery which depended upon revelation , we had no cause to wonder at it ; but our business was chiefly to be satisfied , whether this doctrine were any part of that revelation . as to which i proposed several things , which i thought very reasonable , to the finding out the true sense of the scripture about these matters . after a considerable time , they thought fit to publish something , which was to pass for an answer to it ; but in it , they wholly pass over that part which relates to the sense of scripture , and run into their common place about mysteries of faith ; in which they were sure to have as many friends , as our faith had enemies : and yet they managed it in so trifling a manner , that i did not then think it deserved an answer . but a worthy and judicious friend was willing to take that task upon himself , which he hath very well discharged : so that i am not concerned to meddle with all those particulars , which are fully answer'd already , but the general charge as to the christian church about the doctrine of the trinity , i think my self oblig'd to give an answer to upon this occasion . but before i come to that , since they so confidently charge the christian church for so many ages , with embracing errors , and nonsense , and contradictions for mysteries of faith , i desire to know ( supposing it possible for the christian church to be so early , so generally and so miserably deceived in a matter of such moment ) by what light they have discovered this great error . have they any new books of scripture to judge by ? truly they had need , for they seem to be very weary of the old ones ; because they find they will not serve their turn . therefore they muster up the old objections against them , and give no answer to them ; they find fault with copies , and say , they are corrupted and falsified to speak the language of the church : they let fall suspicious words , as to the form of baptism , as though it were inserted from the churches practice ; they charge us with following corrupt copies and making false translations without any manner of ground for it . and doth not all this discover no good will to the scriptures , at least , as they are received among us ? and i despair of meeting with better copies , or seeing a more faithfull translation than ours is . so that it is plain , that they have no mind to be tried by the scriptures . for these exceptions are such , as a malefactor would make to a jury , he is afraid to be condemned by . but what then is the peculiar light which these happy men have found in a corner , the want whereof hath made the christian church to fall into such monstrous errors and contradictions ? nothing ( they pretend ) but the mere light of common sense and reason ; which they call after a more refined way of speaking , clear ideas and distinct perceptions of things . but least i should be thought to misrepresent them ; i will produce some of their own expressions . in one place they say , we deny the articles of the new christianity , or the athanasian religion , not because they are mysteries , or because we do not comprehend them ; we deny them , because we do comprehend them ; we have a clear and distinct perception , that they are not mysteries , but contradictions , impossibilities , and pure nonsense . we have our reason in vain , and all science and certainty would be destroy'd ▪ if we could not distinguish between mysteries and contradictions . and soon after , we are not to give the venerable name of mystery to doctrines that are contrary to nature's and reason's light , or which destroy or contradict our natural ideas . these things i have particular reason to take notice of here , because they are published as an answer to the foregoing sermon about the mysteries of the christian faith : and this shews the general grounds they go upon , and therefore more fit to be consider'd here . to which i shall add one passage more , wherein they insinuate , that the doctrine of the trinity hath been supported only by interest and force . their words are ( after they have called the doctrine of the trinity , a monstrous paradox and contradiction ) this is that , say they , which because all other arguments failed them in their disputations with the photinians and arians , they at last effectually proved , by the imperial edicts , by confiscations and banishments , by seizing and burning all books written against it or them , by capital punishments , and when the papacy ( of which this is the chief article ) prevailed , by fire and faggot . this is a new discovery indeed , that the doctrine of the trinity , as it is generally receiv'd in the christian church , is the chief article of popery ; although it were embraced and defended long before popery was known ; and i hope would be so , if there were no such thing as popery left in the world . but if every thing which displeases some men must pass for popery , i am afraid christianity it self will not escape at last : for there are some who are building apace on such foundations as these ; and are endeavouring what they can , to remove out of their way all revealed religion , by the help of those two powerfull machines , viz. priest-craft and mysteries . but because i intend a clear and distinct discourse concerning the doctrine of the trinity , as it hath been generally received among us ; i shall proceed in these four enquiries . ( . ) whether it was accounted a monstrous paradox and contradiction , where persons were not sway'd by force and interest ? ( . ) whether there be any ground of common reason , on which it can be justly charged with nonsense , impossibilities and contradiction ? ( . ) whether their doctrine about the trinity or ours , be more agreeable to the sense of scripture and antiquity ? ( . ) whether our doctrine being admitted , it doth overthrow all certainty of reason , and makes way for believing the greatest absurdities under the pretence of being mysteries of faith ? chap. ii. the doctrine of the trinity not received in the christian church by force or interest . as to the first , it will lead me into an enquiry into the sense of the christian church , as to this doctrine , long before popery was hatched , and at a time when the main force of imperial edicts was against christianity it self ; at which time this doctrine was owned by the christian church , but disowned and disputed against by some particular parties and sects . and the question then will be , whether these had engrossed sense , and reason , and knowledge among themselves ; and all the body of the christian church , with their heads and governors , were bereft of common sense , and given up to believe nonsense and contradictions for mysteries of faith. but in order to the clearing this matter , i take it for granted , that sense and reason are no late inventions , only to be found among our vnitarians ; but that all mankind have such a competent share of them , as to be able to judge , what is agreeable to them , and what not , if they apply themselves to it ; that no men have so little sense as to be fond of nonsense , when sense will do them equal service ; that if there be no biass of interest to sway them , men will generally judge according to the evidence of reason ; that if they be very much concerned for a doctrine opposed by others , and against their interest , they are perswaded of the truth of it , by other means than by force and fear ; that it is possible for men of sense and reason to believe a doctrine to be true on the account of divine revelation , although they cannot comprehend the manner of it ; that we have reason to believe those to be men of sense above others , who have shew'd their abilities above them in other matters of knowledge and speculation ; that there can be no reason to suspect the integrity of such men in delivering their own sense , who at the same time might far better secure their interest by renouncing their faith ; lastly , that the more persons are concerned to establish and defend a doctrine which is opposed and contemned , the greater evidence they give , that they are perswaded of the truth of it . these are postulata so agreeable to sense and common reason , that i think if an affront to human nature to go about to prove them . but to shew what use we are to make of them ; we must consider that it cannot be denied , that the doctrine of the trinity did meet with opposition very early in the christian church , especially among the iewish christians ; i mean those who strictly adhered to the law of moses , after the apostles had declared the freedom of christians from the obligation of it . these ( as i shall shew by and by ) soon after the dispersion of the church of ierusalem , gathered into a body by themselves , distinct from that which consisted of iews and gentiles , and was therefore called the catholick christian church . and this separate body , whether called ebionites , nazarens , or mineans , did not only differ from the catholick christian church , as to the necessity of observing the law of moses , but likewise as to the divinity of our saviour , which they denied , although they professed to believe him as the christ or promised messias . theodoret hath with very good judgment placed the heresies of the first ages of the ch●istian church , under two distinct heads , ( which others reckon up confusedly ) and those are such as relate to the humanity of christ , as simon magus , and all the sets of those who are called gnosticks , which are recited in his first book . in his second he begins with those which relate to the divinity of christ ; and these are of two kinds : . the iewish christians who denied it . of these , he reckons up the ebionites , cerinthians , the nazarens , and elcesaitae , whom he distinguished from the other ebionites , because of a book of revelation , which one elxai brought among them ; but epiphanius saith , he joyned with the ebionites and nazarens . . those of the gentile christians , who were look'd on as broaching a new doctri●e among them : of these he reckons artemon as the first , then theodotus ; whom others make the first publisher of it , as tertullian , and the old writer in eusebius , supposed to be caius , who lived near the time , and of whom a considerable fragment is preserved in eusebius , which gives light to these matters . the next is another theodotus , who framed a new sect of such as set up mel●hisedeck above christ. then follow paulus samosatenus , and sabellius , who made but one person as well as one god , and so overthrew the trinity ; with whom marcellus agreed in substance , and last of all photinus . but theodoret concludes that book with this passage , viz. that all these heresies against our saviour's divinity were then wholly extinct ; so that there were not so much as any small remainders of them . what would he have said , if he had lived in our age , wherein they are not only revived , but are pretended to have been the true doctrine of the apostolical churches ? had all men lost their senses in theodoret's time ? and yet there were as many learned and able men in the christian church then , as ever were in any time . chap. iii. the socinian plea for the antiquity of their doctrine examined . but this is not the age our vnitarians will stand or fall by . they are for going backward ; and they speak with great comfort about the old ebionites and nazarens as entirely theirs ; and that they had considerable men among them , as theodotion and symmachus , two translators of the hebrew bible . and among the gentile christians , they value themselves upon three men , paulus samosatenus , lucianus , the most learned person , they say , of his age , and photinus bishop of sirmium . as to the vnitarians at rome , ( whom they improperly call nazarens ) they pretended that their doctrine was apostolical , and the general doctrine of the church till the times of victor and zepherin . this is the substance of their plea , which must now be examin'd . i begin with those primitive vnitarians , the ebionites , concerning whom , i observe these things : . that they were a distinct , separate body of men from the christian church . for all the ancient writers who speak of them , do mention them as hereticks , and wholly divided from it , as appears by irenaeus , tertullian , epiphanius , theodoret , s. augustin , and others . eusebius saith of them , that although the devil could not make them renounce christianity , yet finding their weakness , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he made them his own . he would never have said this of any whom he look'd on as members of the christian church . but wherein is it that eusebius blames them ? he tells it in the very next words ; that it was for the mean opinion they entertained of christ ; for they look'd on him as a meer man , but very just . and although there were two sorts of them ; some owning the miraculous conception , and others not ; yet saith he , they at last agreed in the same impiety , which was , that they would not own christ to have had any pre-existence before his birth ; nor that he was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , god the word . it 's true , he finds fault with them afterwards for keeping to the law of moses ; but the first impiety he charges them with , is the other . that which i inferr from hence is , that eusebius himself ( to whom they profess to shew greater respect than to most of the ancient writers , for his exactness and diligence in church-history ) doth affirm the doctrine which overthrows the pre-existence and divinity of christ to be an impiety . and therefore when he affirms the first fifteen bishops of the church of ierusalem who were of the circumcision , viz. to the siege of it by hadrian , did hold the genuine doctrine of christ , it must be understood of his pre-existence and divinity ; for the other we see he accounted an impiety . and he tells us the church of ierusalem then consisted of believing iews , and so it had done from the apostles times to that of hadrian 's banishment of the iews . which is a considerable testimony to two purposes : . to shew that the primitive church of ierusalem did hold the doctrine of christ's pre-existence and divinity . but say our vnitarians , this doth not follow . for what reason ? when it is plain that eusebius accounted that the only genuine doctrine . no , say they , he meant only the miraculous conception , and that they held that , in opposition to those ebionites who said that he was born as other men are . this is very strange ; when eusebius had distinguished the two sorts of ebionites about this matter , and had blamed both of them , even those that held him born of a virgin , for falling into the same impiety . what can satisfie such men , who are content with such an answer ? but say they , eusebius only spake his own sense . not so neither : for he saith in that place , that he had searched the most ancient records of the church of ierusalem . yes , say they , for the succession of the first bishops ; but as to their doctrine he had it from hegesippus , and he was an ebionite himself . then eusebius must not be the man they take him for . for if hegesippus were himself an ebionite , and told eusebius in his commentaries , that the primitive church of ierusalem consisted of all such , then eusebius must suppose that church guilty of the same impiety with which he charges the ebionites ; and would he then have said , that they had the true knowledge of christ among them ? no , say they , eusebius spake his own opinion , but hegesippus being an ebionite himself , meant otherwise . but eusebius doth not use hegesippus his words , but his own in that place ; and withal , how doth it appear that hegesippus himself was an ebionite ? this , one of their latest writers hath undertaken , but in such a manner , as is not like to convince me . it is thus , hegesippus was himself a iewish christian , and made use of the hebrew gospel , and among the hereticks which crept into the church of jerusalem , he never numbers the ebionites or cerinthians , but only the gnosticks . i will not dispute , whether hegesippus was a jewish christian or not . grant he was so , yet how doth it appear that all the iewish christians were at that time ebionites or cerinthians ? it seems they were neither of them hereticks , although they were opposite to each other ; the one held the world created by inferiour powers , the other , by god himself : the one , we see , made christ a mere man ; but the cerinthians held an illapse of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 upon him , and so made him a kind of a god by his presence , as nestorius did afterwards . but honest hegesippus took neither one nor the other for hereticks , if our vnitarians say true . but yet it doth not appear , that hegesippus was either one or the other . for he speaks of the church of ierusalem , as is plain by eusebius , and the cerinthians and ebionites , were in other parts ; the former in egypt and the lesser or proconsular asia ; and the latter about decapolis and coelesyria , from whence they spread into arabia and armenia , as appears by epiphanius . but origen saith , that all the iewish christians were ebionites . what! no cerinthians among them ? were not those iewish christians ? or were they all turned ebionites then ? no such thing appears by origen's saying . but we are not enquiring now , what they were in his time , but in the church of ierusalem . doth origen say all the iewish christians there were such ? and as to his own time , it is not improbable that those who then made up the separate body of jewish christians were ebionites . but what is this to the first christians of the church of ierusalem ? very much , say they , because the first christians were called nazarens , and the nazarens held the same doctrine with the ebionites . but the title of nazarens did not always signifie the same thing . it was at first used for all christians , as appears by the sect of the nazarens in tertullus his accusation of s. paul ; then it was taken for the christians who stay'd at pella and setled at decapolis and thereabouts , as epiphanius affirms ; for although all the christians withdrew thither before the destruction of ierusalem , as eusebius saith , yet they did not all continue there , but a great number returned to ierusalem , and were there setled under their bishops ; but those who remained about pella kept the name of nazarens , and never were united with the gentile christians , but kept up their old jewish customs , as to their synagogues , even in s. ierom and s. augustine's time . now these nazarens might be all ebionites , and yet those of the church of ierusalem not so at all . . the next thing observable from this place of eusebius is , that while the nazarens and ebionites were setled in coelesyria , and the parts thereabouts , there was a regular christian church at ierusalem , under the bishops of the circumcision , to the siege of hadrian . eusebius observes , that before the destruction of ierusalem , all the christians forsook not only ierusalem , but the coasts of iudea . but that they did not all continue there , is most evident from what eusebius here saith of the church and bishops of ierusalem ; between the two sieges of titus vespasian and hadrian , which was in the year of his empire , saith eusebius . who produces another testimony out of iustin martyr , which shews that the christians were returned to ierusalem . for therein he saith , that barchochebas in that war used the christians with very great severity to make them renounce christianity . how could this be , if all the christians were out of his reach , then being setled about pella ? and although eusebius saith , that when the iews were banished their country by hadrian 's edict , that then the church of ierusalem was made up of gentiles ; yet we are not so strictly to understand him , as though the christians who suffer'd under barchochebas , were wholly excluded . orosius saith , that they were permitted by the emperor's edict . it is sufficient for me , if they were connived at , which is very probable , although they did not think fit to have any such publick persons as their bishops to be any other than gentiles . and hegesippus is allow'd after this time , to have been a iewish christian of the church of ierusalem : so that the church there must consist both of iews and gentiles ; but they can never shew that any of the ebionites did admit any gentile christians among them , which shews that they were then distinct bodies . . they were not only distinct in communion , but had a different rule of faith. this is a point of great consequence , and ought to be well consider'd . for , since our vnitarians own the ebionites as their predecessors , we ought to have a particular eye to the rule of faith received by them , which must be very different from ours , if they follow the ebionites , as i doubt not to make it appear . they say , the ebionites used only s. matthew 's gospel . but the christian church then , and ever since , have receiv'd the four gospels , as of divine authority . eusebius , one of the most approved authors in antiquity by our vnitarians , reckons up the four evangelists and s. paul 's epistles , as writings universally received by the christian church ; then he mentions some generally rejected as spurious ; and after those which were doubted , among which he mentions the gospel according to the hebrews , which the iewish christians follow'd . now here is an apparent difference put between the gospel according to the hebrews , and s. matthew 's gospel ; as much as between a book receiv'd without controversie , and one that was not . but if the gospel according to the hebrews were then acknowledged to be the true gospel of s. matthew ; it was impossible a man of so much sense as eusebius , should make this difference between them . but it is worth our observing , what our vnitarians say about this matter . and by that we may judge very much of their opinion about the gospels . i shall set down their words , for fear i should be thought to do them wrong . symmachus and the ebionites , say they , as they held our saviour to be the son of ioseph and mary ; so they contended that the first chapter of s. matthew's gospel was added by the greek translators . s. matthew wrote his gospel in hebrew , when it was translated into greek , the translator prefaced it with a genealogy and narration that our saviour was conceived by the holy spirit of god , and was not the son of ioseph , but this genealogy and narration , said symmachus and the ebionites , is not in the hebrew gospel of s. matthew , nay is the mere invention of the translator . as for the other gospels , the ebionites and symmachians did not receive the gospel of s. luke : and for that of s. iohn , they said it was indeed written by cerinthus , to confirm his platonick conceits about the logos or word , which he supposed to be the christ or spirit of god , which rested on and inhabited the person of jesus . let us now but join to this another passage , which is this , those whom we now call socinians , were by the fathers and the first ages of christianity called nazarens ; and afterwards they were called ebionites , mineans , symmachians , &c. if this be true , they must have the same opinions as to the books of the new testament ; and hereby we see what sort of men we have to deal with , who under the pretence of the old ebionites , undermine the authority of the new testament . as to s. matthew's gospel , i see no reason to question its being first written in the language then used among the jews , which was mixt of hebrew , syriack , and chaldee : since this is affirmed , not merely by papias , whose authority never went far ; but by origen , irenaeus , eusebius , s. ierom , and others . but i must distinguish between s. matthew's authentick gospel , which pantaenus saw in the indies , and that which was called the gospel according to the hebrews , and the nazaren gospel . s. ierom in one place seems to insinuate , that s. matthew's gospel was preserved in the library of pamphilus at caesarea , and that the nazarens at berrhaea in syria had given him leave to transcribe it . but if we compare this with other places in him , we shall find , that he question'd whether this were the authentick gospel of s. matthew or not ; he saith , it is so called by many ; but he confesses it was the same which the ebionites and nazarens used . in which were many interpolations , as appears by the collections out of it in s. ierom's works and other ancient writers ; which some learned men have put together . and s. ierom often calls it the gospel according to the hebrews . and so do other ancient writers . from the laying several passages together , erasmus suspects , that s. ierom never saw any other than the common nazaren gospel , and offers a good reason for it , viz. that he never made use of its authority to correct the greek of s. matthew , which he would not have failed to have done in his commentaries ; and he produces the nazaren gospel upon sleight occasions . but how came the preface to be curtail'd in the ebionite gospel ? of which epiphanius gives an account , and shews what was inserted instead of it : no , say the ebionites , the preface was added by the translator into greek . from what evidence ? and to what end ? to prove that christ was born of the holy spirit . this then must be look'd on as a mere forgery ; and those ebionites were in the right , who held him to be the son of ioseph and mary . what do these men mean by such suggestions as these ? are they resolved to set up deism among us , and in order thereto , to undermine the authority of the new testament ? for it is not only s. matthew's gospel , but s. luke's and s. iohn's which they strike at , under the pretence of representing the arguments of these wretched ebionites . if their arguments are mean and trifling and merely precarious , why are they not slighted and answered by such as pretend to be christians ? if they think them good , we see what we have to do with these men ; it is not the doctrine of the trinity , so much as the authority of the gospels , which we are to maintain against them : and not those only , for the ebionites rejected all s. paul 's epistles ; and called him an apostate and a transgressor of the law. what say our vnitarians to this ? why truly , this comes from epiphanius , and because he quotes no author , it seems to be one of his malicious tales . this is a very short way of answering , if it would satisfie any men of sense . but they ought to have remembred that within a few pages , they alledge epiphanius as a very competent witness about the ebionites , because he was born in palestine , and lived very near it . but we do not rely wholly upon epiphanius in this matter . for those whom they allow to be the best witnesses as to the doctrine of the nazarens , say the same thing concerning them . as the most learned origen , as they call him , who lived a long time in syria and palestine it self ; and he affirms , that both sorts of ebionites rejected s. paul 's epistles : and theodoret , who they say , lived in coelesyria , where the nazarens most abound , affirms of them , that they allowed only the gospel according to the hebrews , and called the apostle an apostate : by whom they meant s. paul. and the same is said by s. ierom who conversed among them ; that they look on s. paul as a transgressor of the law , and receive none of his writings . have we not now a very comfortable account of the canon of the new testament from these ancient vnitarians ? and if our modern ones account them their predecessors , we may judge what a mean opinion they must have of the writings of the new testament . for if they had any concernment for them , they would never suffer such scandalous insinuations to pass without a severe censure , and a sufficient answer . but their work seems to be rather to pull down , than to establish the authority of revealed religion ; and we know what sort of men are gratified by it . chap. iv. of the considerable men they pretend to have been of their opinion in the primitive church . i now come to consider the men of sense they pretend to among these ancient vnitarians . the first is theodotion , whom they make to be an vnitarian . but he was , saith eusebius from irenaeus , a iewish proselyte , and so they may very much increase the number of vnitarians , by taking in all the iews as well as proselytes . but must these pass for men of sense too , because they are against the doctrine of the trinity , and much upon the same grounds with our modern vnitarians ? for they cry out of contradictions and impossibilities just as they do ; i. e. with as much confidence and as little reason . symmachus is another of their ancient heroes ; he was , if epiphanius may be believed , first a samaritan , and then a iew , and eusebius saith indeed , that he was an ebionite , and therefore for observing the law of moses . s. augustin saith , that in his time the symmachiani were both for circumcision and baptism . s. ierom observes , that theodotion and symmachus , both ebionites , translated the old testament in what concerned our saviour , like iews , and aquila who was a iew , like a christian ; but in another place he blames all three for the same fault . eusebius goes somewhat farther : for he saith , symmachus wrote against s. matthew 's gospel to establish his own heresie , which shew'd he was a true ebionite . the next they mention as one of their great lights , was paulus samosatenus , bishop and patriarch of antioch . but in another place , they have a spiteful insinuation , that men in such places are the great pensioners of the world ; as though they were sway'd only by interest ; and that it keeps them from embracing of the truth . now paulus samosatenus gave greater occasion for such a suspicion than any of the persons so unworthily reflected upon . for he was a man noted for his affectation of excessive vanity and pomp , and very unjust methods of growing rich . it is well we have eusebius his testimony for this ; for they sleight epiphanius for his malicious tales , and s. ierom for his legends ; but they commend eusebius for his exactness and diligence . and i hope theodoret may escape their censure , who affirms , that paulus samofatenus suited his doctrine to his interest with zenobia who then governed in those parts of syria and phoenicia , who professed her self to be of the iewish perswasion . athanasius saith , she was a iew and a favourer of paulus samosatenus . what his opinions were , our vnitarians do not take the pains to inform us , taking it for granted that he was of their mind . eusebius saith , he had a very mean and low opinion of christ , as having nothing in him above the common nature of mankind . theodoret saith , he fell into the doctrine of artemon to oblige zenobia , and artemon , he saith , held that christ was a mere man born of a virgin , but exceeding the prophets in excellency . where the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are used to express the opinion of artemon , which ought to be taken notice of , because our modern vnitarians say , that those words among the ancient writers were taken in opposition to the miraculous conception of our saviour . but paulus samosatenus was universally disowned by the christian church of that time ; although as long as zenobia held her power , he kept his see ; which was for some time after he was first called in question for his heresie . but at first he made use of many arts and devices to deceive the christian bishops of the best reputation , who assembled at antioch in order to the suppressing this dangerous doctrine , as they all accounted it . for hearing of his opinions about our saviour , they ran together , saith eusebius , as against a wolf which designed to destroy the flock . now from hence it is very reasonable to argue , that the samosatenian doctrine was then look'd on as a very dangerous novelty in the christian church . for , although the ebionites had asserted the same thing , as to the divinity of our saviour , yet they were not look'd on as true members of the christian church ; but as s. ierom saith , while they affected to be both iews and christians , they were neither iews nor christians . artemon whoever he was , was but an obscure person ; and theodotus had learning , they say , but was of no place in the church ; but for such a considerable person as the bishop of antioch to own such a doctrine must unavoidably discover the general sence of the christian church concerning it . paulus samosatenus wanted neither parts , nor interest , nor experience ; and he was supported by a princess of great spirit and courage , enough to have daunted all the bishops , at least in those parts , from appearing against him . but such was the zeal and concernment of the bishops of the christian church in this great affair , that they not only assembled themselves , but they communicated it to dionysius bishop of alexandria , and to another of the same name , bishop of rome , and others ; and desired their advice and concurrence , who did all agree in the condemnation of his doctrine . the former said , he would have gone himself to antioch , but for his extreme old age ; and he died soon after the first council , which met at antioch on this occasion ; but he sent his judgment and reasons thither , which we find in an epistle of his still extant , whereof mention is made in the epistle of the second synod of antioch to dionysius bishop of rome , and maximus bishop of alexandria , and all other bishops , priests and deacons of the catholick church , wherein they give an account of their proceedings against paulus samosatenus , and they say , they had invited the bishops of the remoter parts to come to antioch for the suppression of this damnable doctrine ; and among the rest dionysius of alexandria , and firmilian of cappadocia , as persons of greatest reputation then in the church . firmilian was there at the former synod , ( of whom theodoret saith , that he was famous both for divine and humane learning ) and so were gregorius thaumaturgus and athenodorus bishops of pontus , and helenus bishop of tarsus in cilicia , and nicomas of iconium , and hymenaeus of ierusalem , and theotecnus of caesarea ; who all condemned his doctrine , but they spared his person upon his solemn promises to retract it ; but he persisting in it when they were gone home , and fresh complaints being made of him , firmilian was coming a third time to antioch , but died by the way : but those bishops who wrote the synodical epistle do all affirm , that they were witnesses and many others , when he condemned his doctrine , but was willing to forbear his person upon his promise of amendment , which they found afterwards was merely delusory . dionysius alexandrinus , they say , would not write to him , but sent his mind about him to the church of antioch . which epistle is mention'd by s. ierom , ( as written by him a little before his death ) as well as by eusebius and theodoret ; and i do not see sufficient reason to question the authority of that , which fronto ducaeus published from turrian's copy , although it be denied by h. valesius and others . it 's said , indeed , that he did not write to him , i. e. he did not direct it to him , but he might send it to the council in answer to his letters , which he mentions . how far it differs from his style in other epistles , i will not take upon me to judge ; but the design is very agreeable to an epistle from him on that occasion . it 's true , that it seems to represent the opinion of paulus samosatenus after a different manner from what it is commonly thought to have been . but we are to consider , that ●e made use of all the arts to d●sguise himself that he could ; and when he found the making christ to be a mere man would not be born , he went from the ebionite to the cerinthian hypothesis , viz. that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 did dwell in him , and that there were two persons in christ , one divine and the other humane ; and two sons , the one by nature the son of god , who had a pre existence , and the other the son of david , who had no subsistence before . this is the opinion which dionysius sets himself against in that epistle ; and which therefore ●ome may imagine was written after nestorius his heresie . but that was no new heresie , as appears by the cerinthians ; and it was that which paulus samosatenus fled to , as more plausible ; which not only appears by this epistle , but by what athanasius and epiphanius have delivered concerning it . athanasius ▪ wrote a book of the incarnation against the followers of paulus samosatenus , who held , as he saith , two persons in christ , viz. one born of the virgin , and a divine person , which descended upon him and dwelt in him . against which opinion he disputes from two places of scripture ; viz. god was manifest in the flesh ; and the word was made flesh : and from the ancient doctrine of the christian church , and the synod of antioch against paulus samosatenus . and in another place he saith , that he held , that the divine word dwelt in christ. and the words of epiphanius are express to the same purpose ; that the logos came and dwelt in the man iesus . and the clergy of constantinople charged nestorius with following the heresie of paulus samosatenus . and photius in his epistles saith , that nestorius tasted too much of the intoxicated cups of paulus samosatenus ; and in the foregoing epistle , he saith , that paulus his followers asserted two hypostases in christ. but some think , that paulus samosatenus did not hold any subsistence of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 before , but that the word was in god before without any subsistence of its own , and that god gave it a distinct subsistence when it inhabited in the person of christ ; and so marius mercator and leontius understand him ; who say that he differ'd from nestorius therein ; who asserted a divine word with its proper subsistence . but according to them paulus by the word unders●ood that divine energy whereby christ acted , and which dwelt in him ; but dionysius saith he made two christs , and two sons of god. but the doctrine of the christian church , he saith was that there was but one christ , and one son , who w●s the eternal word , and was made flesh. and it is observable , that he brings the very same places we do now to prove this doctrine , as in the beginning was the word , &c. and before abraham was i am . it seems that some of the bishops who had been upon the examination of his opinions before the second synod , which deposed him , sent him an account of their faith and required his answer ; wherein they declare the son not to be god , according to god's decree , ( which he did not stick at ) but that he was so really and substantially ; and whosoever denied this , they said , was out of the communion of the church , and all the catholick churches agreed with them in it . and they declare , that they received this doctrine from the scriptures of the old and new testament , and bring the same places we do now , as , thy throne o god was for ever , &c. who is over all , god blessed for ever . all things were made by him , &c. and we do not find that paulus samosatenus , as subtle as he was , ever imagin'd that these places belong'd to any other than christ , or that the making of all things was to be understood of the making of nothing ; but putting it into mens power to make themselves new creatures . these were discoveries only reserved for the men of sense and clear ideas in these brighter ages of the world. but at last , after all the arts and subterfuges which paulus samosatenus used , there was a man of sense , as it happen'd , among the clergy of antioch , called malchion , who was so well acquainted with his sophistry , that he drove him out of all , and laid his sense so open before the second synod , that he was solemnly deposed for denying the divinity of the son of god , and his descent from heaven , as appears by their synodical epistle . it is pity we have it not entire ; but by the fragments of it , which are preserved by some ancient writers , we find that his doctrine of the divinity in him by inhabitation was then condemned , and the substantial union of both natures asserted . i have only one thing more to observe concerning him , which is , that the arian party in their decree at sardica , ( or rather philippopolis ) do confess that paulus samosatenus his doctrine was condemned by the whole christian world. for they say , that which passed in the eastern synod , was signed and approved by all . and alexander bishop of alexandria , in his epistle to alexander of constantinople affirms the same . and now i hope , i may desire our men of sense to reflect upon these matters . here was no fire nor faggot threatned , no imperial edicts to inforce this doctrine , nay the queen of those parts , under whose jurisdiction they lived at that time , openly espoused the cause of paulus samosatenus , so that here could be nothing of interest to sway them to act in opposition to her . and they found his interest so strong , that he retained the possession of his see , till aurelian had conquer'd zenobia , and by his authority he was ejected . this synod which deposed him , did not sit in the time of aurelian , as is commonly thought , but before his time , while zenobia had all the power in her hands in those eastern parts , which she enjoy'd five years ; till she was dispossess'd by aurelian , from whence ant. pagi concludes , that paulus kept his see three years after the sentence against him ; but upon application to aurelian ; he who afterwards began a persecution against all christians , gave this rule , that he with whom the italian bishops , and those of rome communicated , should enjoy the see , upon which paulus was at last turned out . by this we see a concurrence of all the christian bishops of that time against him , that denied the divinity of our saviour ; and this without any force , and against their interest , and with a general consent of the christian world. for there were no mighty awes and draconic sanctions to compell , of which they sometimes speak , as if they were the only powerfull methods to make this doctrine go down . and what greater argument can there be , that it was then the general sense of the christian church ? and it would be very hard to condemn all his opposers for men that wanted sense and reason , because they so unanimously opposed him . not so unanimously neither , say our vnitarians , because lucian , a presbyter of the church of antioch , and a very learned man , joyned with him . it would have been strange indeed , if so great a man as paulus samosatenus , could prevail with none of his own church to joyn with him , especially one that came from the same place of samosata , as lucian did ; and probably was by him brought thither . he hath an extraordinary character given him by eusebius , both for his life and learning ; and so by s. ierom , without the least reflection upon him as to matter of faith. but on the other side , alexander bishop of alexandria in his epistle concerning arius to alexander of constantinople , doth say , that he follow'd paulus samosatenus , and held separate communion for many years , under the three following bishops . he doth not say that he died so , when he suffer'd martyrdom under maximinus at nicomedia ; neither doth he say the contrary . upon which learned men are divided , whether he persisted in that opinion or not . petavius and valesius give him up ; on the other side baronius vindicates him , and saith , the mis-report of him came from his zeal against sabellianism ; and that alexander wrote that of him before his books were throughly examin'd ; that athanasius never joyns him with paulus samosatenus ; that the arians never produced his authority in their debates , as they would have done , since the emperor's mother had built a city in the place where he suffer'd martyrdom . it cannot be doubted that the arian party would have it believed that they came out of lucian's school , as appears by arius his epistle to eusebius of nicomedia ; but on the other side , the great argument to me is , that this very party at the council of antioch , produced a creed , which they said , was there found written with lucian's own hand , which is directly contrary to the samosatenian doctrine . now , either this was true or false : if it were true , then it was false that he was a samosatenian ; if it were false , how came the arian party to give it out for true ? especially those who valued themselves for coming out of his school . they were far enough from being such weak men to produce the authority of lucian at antioch , where he was so much esteemed , for a doctrine utterly inconsistent with that of paulus samosatenus , if it were there known , that he was his disciple , and separated from three bishops on that account . for therein the son is owned to be god of god , begotten of the father before all ages , perfect god of perfect god , &c. suppose they had a mind to subvert the nicene faith by this creed under the name of lucian , ( only because 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was left out ) yet what an improbable way did they take , when they supported the main points by his authority , and that at antioch , where it was greatest ? if philostorgius may be credited , the great men of the arian party had been his scholars , as besides eusebius of nicomedia , maris of chalcedon , theognis of nice , leontius of antioch , and several other leading bishops , and even arius himself pretended to it . which makes me apt to think , that alexander knowing this , and at first not being able so well to judge of lucian's opinion , charged him with following paulus samosatenus , from whence the odium would fall upon his scholars . for his design is to draw the succession down from ebion , and artemon , and paulus samosatenus , and lucian to arius and his associates ; and charges them with holding the same doctrine , wherein he was certainly mistaken ; and so he might be about lucian's separation from the following bishops on that account . the last our vnitarians mention among their great men , is photinus bishop of sirmium . they take it for granted that he was of their opinion . this is certain , that whatever it was , it was generally condemned , as well by the arians as others ; and after several councils called , he was deposed for his heresie . the first time we find him condemned , was by the arian party in a second council at antioch , as appears by the profession of faith drawn up by them , extant in athanasius and socrates . there they anathematize expressly the disciples of marcellus and photinus , for denying the pre-existence and deity of christ. but by christ , they understood , the person born of the virgin , who was the son of god ; but they did not deny the pre-existence of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and never dream'd that any could think that christ was to be called the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , from his office of preaching , as our modern vnitarians assert . but photinus his opinion was , that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was before all ages , but not christ , or the son of god , which divine word was partly internal , and so it was ever with god , and partly external , when it was communicated to the person of christ , whereby he became the son of god. but the arians there declare their belief , that christ was the living word , and son of god before all worlds , and by whom he made all things . the next time he is said to be condemned , was in that which is called the council at sardica , but was the council of the eastern bishops after their parting from the western . this is mention'd by epiphanius and sulpitius severus , the latter saith he differ'd from sabellius only in the point of vnion , i. e. because sabellius made the persons to be merely denominations which was then called the heresie of the vnionitae ; and therefore photinus must assert an hypostasis to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or else he did not at all differ from sabellius . and it appears by epiphanius , that photinus did distinguish between christ and the word . in the beginning was the word , said he , but not the son , which title was promised and foretold , but did not belong to christ till he was born of the holy ghost and mary , so he expresses it . herein , saith epiphanius , he follow'd paulus samosatenus , but exceeded him in his inventions . in answer to him , he saith , that s. iohn's words are not , in the beginning was the word , and the word was in god , but the word was with god , and the word was god. little did either side imagine that this was to be understood of the beginning of the gospel , as our modern photinians would make us believe they think ; but photinus himself was a person of too much sagacity to take up with such an absurd and insipid sence . i pass over the fresh condemnations of photinus in the councils at milan and rome , because his opinion is not to be learnt from them ; and come to that at sirmium , where it is more particularly set ●orth , as well as condemned . but here we must distinguish the two councils at sirmium ; in the former , he was condemned , but the people would not part with him ; but in the second , he was not only condemned , but effectually deposed , the emperor constantius a professed arian , forcing him to withdraw : but it was upon his own appeal to the emperor against the judgment of the council , who appointed judges delegates to hear this cause : and basilius ancyranus was the manager of the debate with him , wherein he is said to have been so much too hard for photinus , that the emperor himself order'd his banishment . and i can find nothing of his return ; but our vnitarians have found out ( but they do not tell us where ) that the people recalled him , and so he planted his doctrine among them , that it overspread and was the religion of the illyrican provinces , till the papacy on one hand , and the turk on the other , swallow'd up those provi●ces . this looks too like making history to serve a turn , unless some good proof were brought for it . but instead of photinus his returning , and his doctrine prevailing and continuing there , we find valentinian calling a council in illyricum , and establishing the nicene faith there : and a council at aquileia against the arians , where the bishop of sirmium was present , and declared against arianism , and joyned with s. ambrose , who condemns photinus for making christ the son of david , and not the son of god ▪ paulinus saith in his life , that he went on purpose to sirmium to consecrate an orthodox bishop there ; which he did , notwithstanding the power of iustina the empress , who favoured the arians . s. ierom in his chronicon saith , that photinus died in galatia which was his own country ; so that there is no probability in what they affirm of photinus his settling his doctrine in those parts , till the papacy and the turk swallow'd those provinces ; for any one that looks into the history of those parts may be soon satisfied , that not the pope nor the turk , but the huns under attila , made the horrible devastations not only at sirmium , but in all the considerable places of that country : so that if these mens reason be no better than their history , there is very little cause for any to be fond of their writings . but as though it were not enough to mention such things once ; in their answer to the late archbishop's sermons , they inlarge upon it . for he having justly rebuked them for the novelty of their interpretations , they , to avoid this , boast of the concurrence of the ancient vnitarians , the followers of paulus and photinus , who , they say , abounded every-where , and even possessed some whole provinces . this passage i was not a little surprized at . since theodoret , who , i think , was somewhat more to be credited than sandius , doth so expresly say , that the samosatenians and photinians were extinct in his time , in a place already mentioned . but upon search i could find no other ground for it , but a passage or two in sandius , who is none of the exactest historians . in one place he saith from an obscure polish chronicle ( extant in no other language but of that country ) that the bulgarians when they first received christianity embraced photinianism . and is not this very good authority among us ? from hence he takes it for granted , that they all continued photinians to the time of pope nicolas , who converted them . but all this is grounded on a ridiculous mistake in platina , who in the life of nicolas saith , that the pope confirmed them in the faith , pulso photino ; whereas it should be pulso photio ; for photius at that time was patriarch of constantinople , and as appears by his first epistle , assumed their conversion to himself ; and insisted upon the right of jurisdiction over that country . sandius referrs to blondus ; who saith no such thing , but only that the bulgarians were converted before ; which is true ; and the greek historians , as ioh. curopalates , zonaras , and others , gives a particular account of it ; but not a word of photinianism in it . so that the archbishop had very great reason to charge their interpretation with novelty ; and that not only because the photinians had no such provinces , as they boast of ; but that neither paulus samosatenus , nor photinus , nor any of their followers , that we can find , did ever interpret the beginning of s. john , as they do ; i.e. of the new creation , and not of the old ; and so , as the word had no pre-existence before he was born of the virgin. i do not confine them to the nicenists , as they call them ; but let them produce any one among the samosatenians , or photinians , who so understood s. iohn . and therein sandius was in the right ( which ought to be allow'd him , for he is not often so ) when he saith , that no christian interpreter before socinus ever held such a sense of the word , as he did ; and therefore his followers he saith , ought to be called socinians only , and not ebionites , samosatenians , or photinians . but to return to photinus his opinion . it is observable , what socrates saith , concerning his being deposed at sirmium , viz. that what was done in that matter was universally approved , not only then , but afterwards . so that here we have the general consent of the christian world , in that divided time , against the photinian doctrine . and yet it was not near so unreasonable as our vnitarians ; for photinus asserted the pre-existence of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and its inhabiting in christ from his conception ; wherein he differ'd from paulus samosatenus who asserted it to have been upon the merit of his virtue . in the anathema's of the council of sirmium against photinus , one is against any one that asserts that there is one god , but denies christ to have been the son of god before all worlds , and that the world was made by him in obedience to the will of the father . others , against him that asserts that there was a dilatation of the divine substance to make him the son of god , who was a man born of the virgin mary ; this appears from anath . , , . put together . which is best explained by hilary himself in another place , where he mentions this as the photinian doctrine , that god the word did extend himself so far , as to inhabit the person born of the virgin. this he calls a subtle and dangerous doctrine . and therein he saith photinus differ'd from sabellius ; that the latter denied any difference between father and son , but only in names ; but photinus held a real difference , but not before the nativity of christ ; then he said , the divine word inhabiting in christ made him to be the real son of god. the only doubt is , whether photinus held , the word to have had a distinct hypostasis before or not . marius mercator an author of good credit , who lived in s. augustin's time ( and to whom an epistle of his is extant in the new edition of his works ) gives a very particular account of the opinion of photinus with relation to the nestorian controversie , in which he was very well versed . in an epistle written by him on purpose , he shews that nestorius agreed with photinus in asserting , that the word had a pre-existence ; and that the name of son of god did not belong to the word , but to christ after the inhabitation of the word . but he there seems to think , that photinus did not hold the word to have had a real hypostasis before the birth of christ : but when he comes after to compare their opinions more exactly , he then affirms , that photinus and nestorius were agreed , and that he did not deny the word to be con●substantial with god ; but that he was not the son of god till christ was born in whom he dwelt . by which we see how little reason our vnitarians have to boast of photinus as their predecessor . as to the boast of the first unitarians at rome , that theirs was the general doctrine , before the time of victor ; it is so fully confuted by the ancient writer in eusebius , who mentions it , from the scriptures and the first christian writers , named by him , that it doth not deserve to be taken notice of ; especially since he makes it appear , that it was not heard of among them at rome , till it was first broached there by theodotus , as not only he , but tertullian affirms ; as i have already observed . thus i have clearly proved , that the doctrine of the trinity , was so far from being embraced only on the account of force and fear , that i have shewed there was in the first ages of the christian church , a free and general consent in it , even when they were under persecution ; and after the arian controversie broke out , yet those who denied the pre-existence , and co-eternity of the son of god were universally condemned ; even the arian party concurring in the synods mention'd by hilary . but our vnitarians are such great pretenders to reason , that this argument from the authority of the whole christian church , signifies little or nothing to them . therefore they would conclude still that they have the better of us in point of reason , because they tell us , that they have clear and distinct perceptions , that what we call mysteries of faith , are contradictions , impossibilities , and pure nonsense ; and that they do not reject them , because they do not comprehend them , but because they do comprehend them to be so . this is a very bold charge , and not very becoming the modesty and decency of such , who know at the same time that they oppose the religion publickly established , and in such things which we look on as some of the principal articles of the christian faith. chap. v. of their charge of contradiction in the doctrine of the trinity . but i shall not take any advantages from thence , but immediately proceed to the next thing i undertook in this discourse , viz. to consider what grounds they have for such a charge as this , of contradiction and impossibility . in my sermon which gave occasion to these expressions ( as is before intimated ) i had undertaken to prove , that considering the infinite perfections of the divine nature , which are so far above our reach , god may justly oblige us to believe those things concerning himself which we are not able to comprehend ; and i instanced in some essential attributes of god , as his eternity , omniscience , spirituality , &c. and therefore , if there be such divine perfections , which we have all the reason to believe , but no faculties sufficient to comprehend , there can be no ground from reason to reject such a doctrine which god hath revealed , because the manner of it may be incomprehensible by us . and what answer do they give to this ? they do not deny it in general , that god may oblige us to believe things above our comprehension ; but he never obliges us to believe contradictions , and that they charge the doctrine of the trinity with ; and for this they only referr me to their books , where they say it is made out . but i must say , that i have read and consider'd those tracts , and am very far from being convinced that there is any such contradiction in this doctrine , as it is generally received in the christian church ; or as it is explained in the athanasian creed . and , i shall shew the unreasonableness of this charge from these things . . that there is a difference between a contradiction in numbers , and in the nature of things . . that it is no contradiction to assert three persons in one common nature . . that it is no contradiction to say that there are three distinct persons in the trinity and not three gods. if i can make out these things , i hope i may abate something of that strange and unreasonable confidence , wherewith these men charge the doctrine of the trinity with contradictions . . i begin with the first of them . and i shall draw up the charge in their own words . in one of their late books they have these words . theirs , they say , is an accountable and reasonable faith , but that of the trinitarians is absurd and contrary both to reason and to it self ; and therefore not only false but impossible . but wherein lies this impossibility ? that they soon tell us . because we affirm that there are three persons , who are severally and each of them true god , and yet there is but one true god. now , say they , this is an error in counting or numbring , which when stood in is of all others the most brutal and inexcusable ; and not to discern it is not to be a man. what must these men think the christian church hath been made up of all this while ? what ? were there no men among them but the vnitarians ? none that had common sense , and could tell the difference between one and three ? but this is too choice a notion to be deliver'd but once ; we have it over and over from them . in another place , they say , we cannot be mistaken in the notion of one and three ; we are most certain that one is not three , and three are not one. this it is to be men ! but the whole christian world besides are in brutal and inexcusable errors about one and three . this is not enough , for they love to charge home ; for one of their terrible objections against the athanasian creed is , that here is an arithmetical , as well as grammatical contradiction . for , in saying god the father , god the son , and god the holy ghost , yet not three gods but one god , a man first distinctly numbers three gods , and then in summing them up brutishly says , not three gods but one god. brutishly still ! have the brutes and trinitarians learnt arithmetick together ? methinks such expressions do not become such whom the christian church hath so long since condemned for heresies . but it may be with the same civility they will say , it was brutishly done of them . but can these men of sense and reason think , that the point in controversie ever was , whether in numbers , one could be three , or three one ? if they think so , i wonder they do not think of another thing ; which is the begging all trinitarians for fools ; because they cannot count one , two and three ; and an vnitarian jury would certainly cast them . one would think such writers had never gone beyond shop-books ; for they take it for granted , that all depends upon counting . but these terrible charges were some of the most common and trite objections of infidels . st. augustin mentions it as such , when he saith , the infidels sometimes ask us , what do you call the father ? we answer , god. what the son ? we answer , god. what the holy ghost ? we answer , god. so that here the infidels make the same objection , and draw the very same inference . then , say they , the father , son and h. ghost are three gods. but what saith s. augustin to this ? had he no more skill in arithmetick than to say there are three and yet but one ? he saith plainly that there are not three gods. the infidels are troubled , because they are not inlightend ; their heart is shut up , because they are without faith. by which it is plain , he look'd on these as the proper objections of infidels and not of christians . but may not christians have such doubts in their minds ? he doth not deny it ; but then he saith , where the true foundation of faith is laid in the heart , which helps the vnderstanding ; we are to embrace with it , all that it can reach to ; and where we can go no farther , we must believe without doubting : which is a wise resolution of this matter . for there are some things revealed , which we can entertain the notion of in our minds , as we do of any other matters , and yet there may be some things belonging to them which we cannot distinctly conceive . we believe god to have been from all eternity ; and that because god hath revealed it ; but here is something we can conceive , viz. that he was so ; and here is something we cannot conceive , viz. how he was so . this instance i had produced in my sermon , to shew that we might be obliged to believe such things concerning god , of which we cannot have a clear and distinct notion ; as that god was from all eternity , although we cannot conceive in our minds , how he could be from himself . now , what saith the vnitarian to this , who pretended to answer me ? he saith , if god must be from himself , then an eternal god is a contradiction ; for that implies , that he was before he was ; and so charges me with espousing the cause of atheists . i wish our vnitarians were as free from this charge as i am . but this is malicious cavilling . for my design was only to shew , that we could have no distinct conception of something which we are bound to believe . for upon all accounts we are bound to believe an eternal god , and yet we cannot form a distinct and clear idea of the manner of it . whether being from himself be taken positively , or negatively , the matter is not cleared ; the one is absurd , and the other unconceivable by us . but still i say , it is a thing that we are bound to believe stedfastly , although it is above our comprehension . but instead of answering to this , he runs out into an examination of one notion of eternity : and as he thinks , shews some absurdities in that , which are already answer'd . but that was not my meaning , but to shew that we could have no clear and distinct notion of eternity ; and if his arguments were good they prove what i aimed at , at least as to that part ; and himself produces my own words to shew , that there were such difficulties every way , which we could not master ; and yet are bound to believe , that necessary existence is an inseparable attribute of god. so that here we have a clear instance of what s. augustin saith , that we may believe something upon full conviction , as that god is eternal ; and yet there may remain something which we cannot reach to by our understanding , viz. the manner how eternity is to be conceived by us : which goes a great way towards clearing the point of the trinity , notwithstanding the difficulty in our conceiving the manner how three should be one , and one three . but s. augustin doth not give it over so ; let us keep stedfast , saith he , to the foundation of our faith , that we may arrive to the top of perfection ; the father is god , the son is god , the holy ghost is god ; the father is not the son , nor the son the father , nor the holy ghost either father or son. and he goes on . the trinity is one god , one eternity , one power , one majesty , three persons one god. so it is in erasmus his edition ; but the late editors say , that the word personae was not in their manuscript . and it is not material in this place , since elsewhere he approves the use of the word persons , as the fittest to express our meaning in this case . for since some word must be agreed upon , to declare our sense by , he saith , those who understood the propriety of the latin tongue , could not pitch upon any more proper than that , to signifie that they did not mean three distinct essences , but the same essence with a different hypostasis , founded in the relation of one to the other ; as father and son have the same divine essence , but the relations being so different that one cannot be confounded with the other , that which results from the relation being joyned with the essence , was it which was called a person . but saith s. augustin , the caviller will ask , if there be three , what three are they ? he answers , father , son and holy ghost . but then he distinguishes between what they are in themselves , and what they are to each other . the father as to himself is god , but as to the son he is father : the son as to himself is god , but as to the father he is the son. but how is it possible to understand this ? why , saith he , take two men , father and son ; the one as to himself is a man , but as to the son a father ; the son , as to himself is a man , but as to the father , he is a son : but these two have the same common nature . but saith he , will it not hence follow , that as these are two men , so the father and son in the divine essence must be two gods ? no , there lies the difference between the humane and divine nature . that one cannot be multiplied and divided as the other is . and therein lies the true solution of the difficulty , as will appear afterwards . when you begin to count , saith he , you go on , one , two and three . but when you have reckon'd them what is it you have been counting ? the father is the father , the son the son , and the holy ghost , the holy ghost . what are these three ? are they not three gods ? no , are they not three almighties ? no , they are capable of number as to their relation to each other ; but not as to their essence which is but one. the substance of the answer lies here , the divine essence is that alone which makes god , that can be but one , and therefore there can be no more gods than one . but because the same scripture , which assures us of the unity of the divine essence , doth likewise joyn the son and holy ghost in the same attributes , operations and worship , therefore as to the mutual relations , we may reckon three , but as to the divine essence , that can be no more than one. boëthius was a great man in all respects , for his quality , as well as for his skill in philosophy and christianity ; and he wrote a short but learned discourse to clear this matter . the catholick doctrine of the trinity , saith he , is this ; the father is god , the son god and the holy ghost ; but they are not three gods but one god. and yet ( which our vnitarians may wonder at ) this very man hath written a learned book of arithmetick . but how doth he make this out ? how is it possible for three to be but one ? first he shews , that there can be but one divine essence ; for to make more than one must suppose a diversity . principium enim pluralitatis alteritas est . if you make a real difference in nature as the arians did , then there must be as many gods , as there are different natures . among men , there are different individuals of the same kind ; but , saith he , it is the diversity of accidents which makes it ; and if you can abstract from all other accidents , yet they must have a different place , for two bodies cannot be in the same place . the divine essence is simple and immaterial , and is what it is of it self ; but other things are what they are made , and consist of parts , and therefore may be divided . now that which is of it self can be but one ; and therefore cannot be numbred . and one god cannot differ from another , either by accidents or substantial differences . but saith he , there is a twofold number ; one by which we reckon ; and another in the things reckoned . and the repeating of units in the former makes a plurality , but not in the latter . it may be said , that this holds where there are only different names for the same thing ; but here is a real distinction of father , son and holy ghost . but then he shews , " that the difference of relation , can make no alteration in the essence ; and where there is no diversity , there can be but one essence , although the different relation may make three persons . this is the substance of what he saith concerning this difficulty , which , as he suggests , arises from our imaginations , which are so filled with the division and multiplicity of compound and material things , that it is a hard matter for them so to recollect themselves as to consider the first principles and grounds of vnity and diversity . but if our vnitarians have not throughly consider'd those foundations , they must , as they say to one of their adversaries , argue like novices in these questions . for these are some of the most necessary speculations for understanding these matters ; as what that vnity is which belongs to a perfect being ; what diversity is required to multiply an infinite essence , which hath vnity in its own nature : whether it be therefore possible , that there should be more divine essences than one , since the same essential attributes must be , where ever there is the divine essence ? whether there can be more individuals , where there is no dissimilitude , and can be no division or separation ? whether a specifick divine nature be not inconsistent with the absolute perfection , and necessary existence which belongs to it ? whether the divine nature can be individually the same , and yet there be several individual essences : these and a great many other questions it will be necessary for them to resolve , before they can so peremptorily pronounce , that the doctrine of the trinity doth imply a contradiction on the account of the numbers of three and one. and so i come to the second particular . chap. vi. no contradiction for three persons to be in one common nature . ii. that it is no contradiction to assert three persons in one common nature . i shall endeavour to make these matters as clear as i can ; for the greatest difficulties in most mens minds have risen from the want of clear and distinct apprehensi●ns of those fundamental notions , which are necessary in order to the right understanding of them . . we are to distinguish between the being of a thing , and a thing in being ; or between essence and existence . . between the vnity of nature or essence , and of existence or individuals of the same nature . . between the notion of persons in a finite and limited nature , and in a being uncapable of division and separation . . between the being of a thing , and a thing in being . by the former we mean the nature and essential properties of a thing ; whereby it is distinguished from all other kinds of beings . so god and his creatures are essentially distinguished from each other by such attributes which are incommunicable ; and the creatures of several kinds are distinguished by their natures or essences ; for the essence of a man and of a brute are not barely distinguished by individuals , but by their kinds . and that which doth constitute a distinct kind is one and indivisible in it self : for the essence of man is but one and can be no more ; for if there were more , the kind would be alter'd ; so that there can be but one common nature or essence to all the individuals of that kind . but because these individuals may be or may not be , therefore we must distinguish them as they are in actual being , from what they are in their common nature ; for that continues the same , under all the variety and succession of individuals . . we must now distinguish the vnity which belongs to the common nature , from that which belongs to the individuals in actual being . and the vnity of essence is twofold : . where the essence and existence are the same , i. e. where necessary existence doth belong to the essence , as it is in god , and in him alone ; it being an essential and incommunicable perfection . . where the existence is contingent , and belongs to the will of another ; and so it is in all creatures , intellectual and material , whose actual being is dependent on the will of god. the vnity of existence may be consider'd two ways . . as to it self , and so it is called identity ; or a thing continuing the same with it self : the foundation whereof in man is that vital principle which results from the union of soul and body . for as long as that continues , notwithstanding the great variety of changes in the material parts , the man continues entirely the same . . the vnity of existence as to individuals may be consider'd as to others , i. e. as every one stands divided from every other individual of the same kind ; although they do all partake of the same common essence . and the clearing of this , is the main point , on which the right notion of these matters depends . in order to that , we must consider two things . . what that is , whereby we perceive the difference of individuals ? . what that is , which really makes two beings of the same kind to be different from each other ? . as to the reason of our perception of the difference between individuals of the same kind , it depends on these things . . difference of outward accidents , as features , age , bulk , meen , speech , habit and place . . difference of inward qualities and dispositions ; which we perceive by observation , and arise either from constitution , or education , or company , or acquired habits . . as to the true ground of the real difference between the existence of one individual from the rest , it depends upon the separate existence which it hath from all others . for that which gives it a being distinct from all others and divided by individual properties , is the true ground of the difference between them , and that can be no other but the will of god. and no consequent faculties or acts of the mind by self-reflection , &c. can be the reason of this difference ; because the difference must be supposed antecedent to them . and nothing can be said to make that , which must be supposed to be before it self ; for there must be a distinct mind in being from all other minds , before it can reflect upon it self . but we are not yet come to the bottom of this matter . for as to individual persons , there are these things still to be consider'd . . actual existence in it self , which hath a mode belonging to it , or else the humane nature of christ could not have been united with the divine , but it must have had the personal subsistence , and consequently there must have been two persons in christ. . a separate and divided existence from all others , which arises from the actual existence , but may be distinguished from it ; and so the humane nature of christ , although it had the subsistence proper to being , yet had not a separate existence , after the hypostatical vnion . . the peculiar manner of subsistence , which lies in such properties as are incommunicable to any other ; and herein lies the proper reason of personality . which doth not consist in a meer intelligent being , but in that peculiar manner of subsistence in that being which can be in no other . for when the common nature doth subsist in individuals , there is not only a separate existence , but something so peculiar to it self , that it can be communicated to no other . and this is that which makes the distinction of persons . . there is a common nature which must be joyned with this manner of subsistence to make a person ; otherwise it would be a meer mode ; but we never conceive a person without the essence in conjunction with it . but here appears no manner of contradiction in asserting several persons in one and the same common nature . . the individuals of the same kind are said to differ in number from each other , because of their different accidents and separate existence . for so they are capable of being numbred . whatever is compounded is capable of number as to its parts , and may be said to be one by the union of them ; whatever is separated from another is capable of number by distinction . but where there can be no accidents nor division , there must be perfect unity . . there must be a separation in nature , where-ever there is a difference of individuals under the same kind . i do not say there must be an actual separation and division as to place , but that there is and must be so in nature , where one common nature subsists in several individuals . for all individuals must divide the species , and the common nature u●ites them . and this philoponus understood very well , and therefore he never denied such a division and separation in the divine persons , as is implied in distinct individuals : which is the last thing to be consider'd here . . we are now to enquire how far these things will hold as to the persons in the trinity , and whether it be a contradiction to assert three persons in the godhead and but one god. we are very far from disputing the vnity of the divine essence , which we assert to be so perfect and indivisible , as not to be capable of such a difference of persons as is among men. because there can be no difference of accidents , or place , or qualities in the divine nature ; and there can be no separate existence , because the essence and existence are the same in god ; and if necessary existence be an inseparable attribute of the divine essence , it is impossible there should be any separate existence ; for what always was and must be , can have no other existence than what is implied in the very essence . but will not this overthrow the distinction of persons and run us into sabellianism ? by no means . for our vnitarians grant , that the noetians and sabellians held , that there is but one divine substance , essence or nature , and but one person . and how can those who hold three persons be sabellians ? yes , say they , the sabellians held three relative persons . but did they mean three distinct subsistences , or only one subsistence sustaining the names , or appearances , or manifestations of three persons ? the latter they cannot deny to have been the true sense of the sabellians . but say they , these are three persons in a classical critical sense . we meddle not at present with the dispute which valla hath against boethius about the proper latin sense of a person ( and petavius saith valla's objections are mere iests and trifles ) but our sense of a person is plain , that it signifies the essence with a particular manner of subsistence , which the greek fathers called an hypostasis , taking it for that incommunicable property which makes a person . but say our vnitarians , a person is an intelligent being , and therefore three persons must be three intelligent beings . i answer , that this may be taken two ways . . that there is no person where there is no intelligent nature to make it a person , and so we grant it . . that a person implies an intelligent being , separate and divided from other individuals of the same kind , as it is among men : and so we deny it as to the persons of the trinity , because the divine essence is not capable of such division and separation as the humane nature is . but say they again , the fathers did hold a specifical divine nature , and the persons to be as so many individuals . this they repeat very often in their late books ; and after all , refer us to curcellaeus for undeniable proofs of it . let us for the present suppose it , then i hope the fathers are freed from holding contradictions in the doctrine of the trinity ; for what contradiction can it be , to hold three individual persons in the godhead , and one common nature , more than it is to hold that there are three humane persons in one and the same common nature of man ? will they make this a contradiction too ? but some have so used themselves to the language of iargon , nonsense , contradiction , impossibility , that it comes from them , as some men swear , when they do not know it . but i am not willing to go off with this answer ; for i do take the fathers to have been men of too great sense and capacity to have maintained such an absurd opinion , as that of a specifick nature in god. for either it is a mere logical notion , and act of the mind without any real existence belonging to it as such , which is contrary to the very notion of god , which implies a necessary existence ; or it must imply a divine nature , which is neither father , son , nor holy ghost . which is so repugnant to the doctrine of the fathers , that no one that is any ways conversant in their writings on this argument , can imagine they should hold such an opinion . and i am so far from being convinced by curcellaeus his undeniable proofs , that i think it no hard matter to bring undeniable proofs that he hath mistaken their meaning . of which i shall give an account in this place , because i fear his authority hath had too much sway with some , as to this matter . i shall not insist upon his gross mistake in the very entrance of that discourse , where he saith , that the bishops of gaul and germany disliked the homoousion , and gave three reasons against it ; whereas hilary speaks of the eastern bishops whom he goes about to vindicate to the western bishops , who were offended with them for that reason ; as any one that reads hilary de synodis may see . but i come to the main point . his great argument is from the use of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which may extend to individuals of the same kind . who denies it ? but the question is whether the fathers used it in that sense , so as to imply a difference of individuals in the same common essence ? there were two things aimed at by them in their dispute with the arians . ( . ) to shew , that the son was of the same substance with the father , which they denied , and made him of an inferior created substance , of another kind . now the fathers thought this term very proper to express their sense against them . but then this word being capable of a larger sense than they intended , they took care , ( . ) to assert a perfect unity and indivisibility of the divine essence . for the arians were very ready to charge them with one of these two things . ( . ) that they must fall into sabellianism , if they held a perfect unity of essence : or ( . ) when they clear'd themselves of this , that they must hold three gods ; and both these they constantly denied . to make this clear , i shall produce the testimonies of some of the chief both of the greek and latin fathers , and answer curcellaeus his objections . athanasius takes notice of both these charges upon their doctrine of the trinity : as to sabellianism he declared , that he abhorred it equally with arianism ; and he saith , it lay in making father and son to be only different names of the same person ; and so they asserted but one person in the godhead . as to the other charge of polytheism , he observes , that in the scripture language , all mankind was reckon'd as one , because they have the same essence ; and if it be so , as to men , who have such a difference of features , of strength , of vnderstanding , of language , how much more may god be said to be one , in whom is an undivided dignity , power , counsel and operation . doth this prove such a difference , as is among individuals of the same kind among men ? no man doth more frequently assert the indivisible vnity of the divine nature than he . he expresly denies such divided hypostases , as are among men ; and saith , that in the trinity there is a conjunction without confusion , and a distinction without division ; that in the trinity there is so perfect an vnion , and that it is so undivided and united in it self ; that where-ever the father is , there is the son and the holy ghost , and so the rest , because there is but one godhead , and one god who is over all , and through all , and in all . but saith curcellaeus , the contrary rather follows from this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or mutual inexistence , for that could not be without distinct substance , as in water and wine . but this is a very gross mistake of the fathers notion , who did not understand by it a local in-existence as of bodies , but such an indivisible vnity that one cannot be without the other , as even petavius hath made it appear from athanasius and others . athanasius upon all occasions asserts the unity of the divine nature to be perfect and indivisible . god , saith he , is the father of his son 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , without any division of the substance . and in other places , that the substance of the father and son admit of no division , and he affirms this to have been the sense of the council of nice ; so that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must be understood of the same indivisible substance . curcellaeus answers , that athanasius by this indivisible vnity meant only a close and indissoluble vnion . but he excluded any kind of division , and that of a specifick nature into several individuals as a real division in nature ; for no man whoever treated of those matters denied , that a specifick nature was divided , when there were several individuals under it . but what is it which makes the vnion indissoluble ? is it the vnity of the essence or not ? if it be , is it the same individual essence , or not ? if the same individual essence makes the inseparable union , what is it , which makes the difference of individuals ? if it be said , the incommunicable properties of the persons ; i must still ask how such properties in the same individual essence , can make different individuals ? if it be said to be the same specifick nature ; then how comes that which is in it self capable of division to make an indissoluble vnion ? but saith curcellaeus , athanasius makes christ to be of the same substance as adam , and seth , and abraham , and isaac are said to be con-substantial with each other . and what follows ? that the father and son are divided from each other , as they were ? this is not possible to be his sense ; considering what he saith of the indivisibility of the divine nature . and athanasius himself hath given sufficient warning against such a mis-construction of his words ; and still urges that our conceptions ought to be suitable to the divine nature , not taken from what we see among men . and it is observable , that when paulus samosatenus had urged this as the best argument against the term 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that it made such a difference of substances as is among men ; for that reason saith athanasius , his iudges were content to let it alone , for the son of god is not in such a sense con-substantial ; but afterwards , the nicene fathers finding out the art of paulus , and the significancy of the word to discriminate the arians , made use of it , and only thought it necessary to declare , that when it is applied to god , it is not to be understood , as among individual men. as to the dialogues under athanasius his name , on which curcellaeus insists so much ; it is now very well known that they belong not to him , but to maximus ; and by comparing them with other places in him , it may appear , that he intended no specifick nature in god. but saith curcellaeus , if the fathers intended any more than a specifick nature , why did they not use words which would express it more fully , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ? for that very reason , which he mentions from epiphanius , because they would seem to approach too near to sabellianism . s. basil was a great man , ( notwithstanding the flout of our vnitarians , ) and apply'd his thoughts to this matter , to clear the doctrine of the church from the charge of sabellianism and tritheism . as to the former , he saith , in many places , that the heresie lay in making but one person as well as one god , or one substance with three several names . as to the latter , no man asserts the individual unity of the divine essence in more significant words than he doth . for he uses the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , . as s. cyril of alexandria doth likewise , and yet both these are produced by curcellaeus for a specifick nature . but saith curcellaeus , s. basil in his epistle to gregory nyssen doth assert the difrence between substance and hypostasis to consist in this , that the one is taken for common nature , and the other for individual , and so making three hypostases , he must make three individuals , and one common or specifick nature . i answer , that it is plain by the design of that epistle , that by three hypostases he could not mean three individual essences . for he saith , the design of his writing it , was to clear the difference between substance and hypostasis . for saith he , from the want of this , some assert but one hypostasis , as well as one essence ; and others , because there are three hypostases , suppose there are three distinct essences . for both went upon the same ground , that hypostasis and essence were the same . therefore saith he , those who held three hypostases , did make 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a division of substances . from whence it follows , that s. basil did look upon the notion of three distinct substances as a mistake : i say distinct substances , as individuals are distinct ; for so the first principles of philosophy do own that individuals make a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or division of the species into several and distinct individuals . but doth not s. basil go about to explain his notion by the common nature of man , and the several individuals under it ; and what can this signifie to his purpose , unless he allows the same in the godhead ? i grant he doth so , but he saith the substance , is that which is common to the whole kind ; the hypostasis is that which properly distinguisheth one individual from another ; which he calls the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the peculiar incommunicable property . which he describes by a concourse of distinguishing characters in every individual . but how doth he apply these things to the divine nature ? for therein lies the whole difficulty . doth he own such a community of nature , and distinction of individuals there ? he first confesses the divine nature to be incomprehensible by us ; but yet we may have some distinct notions about these things . as for instance , in the father we conceive something common to him and to the son ; and that is the divine essence : and the same as to the holy ghost . but there must be some proper characters to distinguish these , one from another ; or else there will be nothing but confusion : which is sabellianism . now the essential attributes and divine operations are common to them ; and therefore these cannot distinguish them from each other . and those are the peculiar properties of each person , as he shews at large . but may not each person have a distinct essence belonging to him , as we see it is among men ? for this s. basil answers : ( . ) he utterly denies any possible division in the divine nature . and he never question'd , but the distinction of individuals under the same species was a sort of division , although there were no separation . and the followers of ioh. philoponus did hold an indissoluble vnion between the three individual essences in the divine nature ; but they held a distinction of peculiar essences , besides the common nature , which they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; as appears by photius , who was very able to judge . and it appears by one of themselves in photius , that the controversie was , whether an hyposiasis could be without an individual essence belonging to it self ; or whether the peculiar properties and characters did make the hypostasis . but as to s. basil's notion , we are to observe ; ( . ) that he makes the divine essence to be uncapable of number , by reason of its perfect unity . here our vnitarians tell us , that when s. basil saith , that god is not one in number , but in nature , he means : as the nature of man is one , but there are many particular men , as peter , james and john , &c. so the nature of god , or the common divinity is one , but there are as truely more gods in number , or more particular gods , as there are more particular men. but that this is a gross mistake or abuse of s. basil's meaning , i shall make it plain from h●mself . for , they say , that he held , that as to this question , how many gods ? it must be answered , three gods in number , or three personal gods , and one in nature , or divine properties ; whereas he is so far from giving such an answer , that he absolutely denies that there can be more gods than one in that very place . he mentions it as an objection , that since he said , that the father is god , the son god , the holy ghost god ; he must hold three gods ; to which he answers , we own but one god , not in number , but in nature : then say they , he held but one god in nature and more in number . that is so far from his meaning , that i hardly think any that read the passage in s. basil , could so wilfully pervert his meaning . for his intention was so far from asserting more gods in number , that it was to prove so perfect a unity in god , that he was not capable of number , or of being more than one . for , saith he , that which is said to be one in number , is not really and simply one , but is made up of many , which by composition become one ; as we say , the world is one , which is made up of many things . but god is a simple uncompounded being ; and therefore cannot be said to be one in number . but the world is not one by nature , because it is made up of so many things , but it is one by number , as those several parts make but one world. is not this fair dealing with such a man as s. basil , to represent his sense quite otherwise than it is ? as though he allow'd more gods than one in number ? number , saith he again , belongs to quantity , and quantity to bodies , but what relation have these to god , but as he is the maker of them ? number belongs to material and circumscribed beings ; but , saith he , the most perfect vnity is to be conceived in the most simple and incomprehensible essence . where it is observable , that he uses those words which are allow'd to express the most perfect and singular unity . which petavius himself confesseth , that they can never be understood of a specifick nature : and curcellaeus cannot deny , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being added to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , doth restrain the sense more to a numerical vnity , as he calls it . how then is it possible to understand s. basil of more gods than one in number ? and in the very same page he mentions the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the sameness of the divine nature , by which the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is better understood . but curcellaeus will have no more than a specifick vnity understood . before he said , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 would have signified more , but now he finds it used , the case is alter'd : so that the fathers could not mean any other than a specifick vnity , let them use what expressions they pleas'd . but these , i think are plain enough to any one that will not shut his eyes . in an other place , s. basil makes the same objection and gives the same answer . one god the father , and one god the son ; how can this be , and yet not two gods ? because , saith he , the son hath the very same essence with the father . not two essences divided out of one , as two brothers ; but as father and son , the son subsisting as from the father , but in the same individual essence : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but curcellaeus hath one fetch yet , viz. that s. basil denied god to be one in number , and made him to be one in nature , because he look'd on a specifick vnity or vnity of nature as more exact than numerical . s. basil look'd on the divine nature as such to have the most perfect vnity , because of its simplicity , and not in the least speaking of it as a specifick vnity ; but curcellaeus himself calls this , an vnity by a mere fiction of the mind ; and can he imagine this to have been more accurate than a real unity ? these are hard shifts in a desperate cause . after all , our vnitarians tell us , that s. basil doth against eunomius allow a distinction in number with respect to the deity . but how ? as to the essence ? by no means . for he asserts the perfect vnity thereof in the same place , even the vnity of the substance . but as to the characteristical properties of the persons , he allows of number , and no farther . but say they , this is to make one god as to essential properties , and three as to personal . how can that be ? when he saith , so often there can be but one god , because there can be but one divine essence ; and therefore those properties can only make distinct hypostases , but not distinct essences . and is this indeed the great secret which this bold man , as they call him , hath discover'd ? i think those are much more bold , ( i will not say impudent ) who upon such slight grounds , charge him with asserting more gods than one in number . but gregory nyssen , saith curcellaeus ▪ speaks more plainly in his epistle to ablabius ; for saith he , to avoid the difficulty of making three gods , as three individuals among men are three men ; he answers , that truly they are not three men , because they have but one common essence , which is exactly one , and indivisible in it self , however it be dispersed in individuals ▪ the same , he saith , is to be understood of god. and this petavius had charged him with before , as appears by curcellaeus his appendix . this seems the hardest passage in antiquity for this purpose , to which i hope to give a satisfactory answer from gregory nyssen himself . . it cannot be denied , that he asserts the vnity of essence to be indivisible in it self , and to be the true ground of the denomination of individuals ; as peter hath the name of a man , not from his individual properties , whereby he is distinguished from iames and iohn ; but from that one indivisible essence , which is common to them all , but yet receives no addition or diminution in any of them . . he grants a division of hypostases among men , notwithstanding this indivisibility of one common essence : for saith he ; among men , although the essence remain one and the same in all , without any division ; yet the several hypostases are divided from each other , according to the individual properties belonging to them . so that here is a double consideration of the essence : as in it self , so it is one and indivisible ; as it subsists in individuals , and so it is actually divided according to the subjects . for although the essence of a man be the same in it self , in peter , iames and iohn ; yet taking it as in the individuals , so the particular essence in each of them is divided from the rest . and so philoponus took hypostasis for an essence individuated by peculiar properties ; and therefore asserted , that where-ever there was an hypostasis , there must be a distinct essence ; and from hence he held the three persons to have three distinct essences . . we are now to consider , how far gregory nyssen carried this , whether he thought it held equally as to the divine hypostasis ; and that he did not , appears to me from these arguments : . he utterly denies any kind of division in the divine nature ; for in the conclusion of that discourse , he saith , it is not only 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( a word often used by the greek fathers on this occasion , from whence athanasius against macedonius inferr'd an identity , and caesarius joyns 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and so s. basil uses it ) but he adds another word , which is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , indivisible . yes , as all essences are indivisible in themselves ; but they may be divided in their subjects , as gregory nyssen allows it to be in men. i grant it , but then he owns a division of some kind , which he here absolutely denies as to the divine nature ; for his words are , that it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in any consideration whatsoever . then he must destroy the hypostases . not so neither , for he allows that there is a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as to the hypostases however . for he proposes the objection himself , that by allowing no difference in the divine nature , the hypostases would be confounded . to which he answers , that he did not deny their difference , which was founded in the relation they had to one another ; which he there explains ; and that therein only consists the difference of the persons . which is a very considerable testimony , to shew that both petavius and curcellaeus mistook gregory nyssen's meaning . but there are other arguments to prove it . . he asserts such a difference between the divine and human persons , as is unanswerable , viz. the vnity of operation . for , saith he , among men , if several go about the same work , yet every particular person works by himself , and therefore they may well be called many ; because every one is circumscribed : but in the divine persons he proves that it is quite otherwise , for they all concurr in the action towards us ; as he there shews at large . petavius was aware of this , and therefore he saith , he quitted it and returned to the other ; whereas he only saith , if his adversaries be displeased with it , he thinks the other sufficient . which in short is , that essence in it self is one and indivisible ; but among men it is divided according to the subjects ; that the divine nature is capable of no division at all , and therefore the difference of hypostases must be from the different relations and manner of subsistence . . he expresses his meaning fully in another place . for in his catechetical oration , he saith , he looks on the doctrine of the trinity as a profound mystery ( which three individual persons in one specifick nature is far from . ) but wherein lies it ? chiefly in this , that there should be number and no number ; different view and yet but one ; a distinction of hypostases , and yet no division in the subjects . for so his words are , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; which is contrary to what he said of human hypostases . now , what is the subject in this case ? according to curcellaeus his notion , it must be an individual . but since he asserts there can be no division in the subjects , then he must overthrow any such individuals , as are among men. these are the chief testimonies out of the greek fathers , whose authority curcellaeus and others rely most upon , as to this matter , which i have therefore more particularly examin'd . but s. ierom , saith curcellaeus , in his epistle to damasus , thought three hypostases implied three distinct substances ; and therefore when the campenses would have him own them , he refused it and asked his advice . then it is plain , s. ierom would not own three distinct substances , and so could not be of curcellaeus his mind . but saith he , s. ierom meant by three substances , three gods different in kind , as the arians did . but how doth that appear ? doth he not say , the arian bishop , and the campenses put him upon it ? but who was this arian bishop , and these campenses ? no other than the meletian party ; for meletius was brought in by the arians , but he joyned against them with s. basil and others , who asserted three hypostases ; and the campenses were his people who met without the gates , as the historians tell us . but it is evident by s. ierom , that the latin church understood hypostasis to be the same then with substance ; and the reason why they would not allow three hypostases , was , because they would not assert three substances . so that curcellaeus his hypothesis hath very little colour for it among the latin fathers ; since s. ierom there saith , it would be sacrilege to hold three substances , and he freely bestows an anathema upon any one that asserted more than one . but hilary , saith curcellaeus , owns a specifick vnity , for in his book de synodis , he shews , that by one substance , they did not mean one individual substance , but such as was in adam and seth , that is of the same kind . no man asserts the vnity and indiscrimination of the divine substance more fully and frequently than he doth ; and that without any difference or variation , as to the father and the son. and although against the arians he may use that for an illustration , of adam and seth ; yet when he comes to explain himself , he declares it must be understood in a way agreeable to the divine nature . and he denies any division of the substance between father and son , but he asserts one and the same substance to be in both ; and although the person of the son remains distinct from the person of the father , yet he subsists in that substance of which he was begotten , and nothing is taken off from the substance of the father , by his being begotten of it . but doth he not say , that he hath a legitimate and proper substance of his own begotten nature from god , the father ? and what is this , but to own two distinct substances ? how can the substance be distinct , if it be the very same ; and the son subsist in that substance of which he was begotten ? and that hilary ( besides a multitude of passages to the same purpose in him ) cannot be understood of two distinct substances will appear by this evidence . the arians in their confession of faith before the council of nice set down among the several heresies which they condemned ; that of hieracas , who said the father and son were like two lamps shining out of one common vessel of oil. hilary was sensible that under this that expression was struck at , god of god , light of light , which the church owned . his answer is , luminis naturae vnitas est , non ex connexione porrectio . i e. they are not two divided lights , from one common stock ; but the same light remaining after it was kindled that it was before . as appears by his words , light of light , saith he , implies , that it gives to another that which it continues to have it self . and petavius saith , that the opinion of hieracas was , that the substance of the father and son differ'd numerically as one lamp from another . and hilary calls it an error of humane understanding which would judge of god , by what they find in one another . doth not s. ambrose say , as curcellaeus quotes him , that the father and son are not two gods , because all men are said to be of one substance ? but s ambrose is directly against him . for , he saith , the arians objected , that if they made the son true god , and con-substantial with the father , they must make two gods ; as there are two men , or two sheep of the same essence ; but a man and a sheep are not said to be men , or two sheep . which they said to excuse themselves , because they made the son of a different kind and substance from the father . and what answer doth s. ambrose give to this ? . he saith , plurality according to the scriptures rather falls on those of different kinds ; and therefore when they make them of several kinds , they must make several gods. . that we who hold but one substance , cannot make more gods than one. . to his instance of men , he answers , that although they are of the same nature by birth , yet the● differ in age , and thought , and work , and place from one another ; and where there is such diversity , there cannot be vnity : but in god , there is no difference of nature , will , or operation ; and therefore there can be but one god. the last i shall mention is s. augustin , whom curcellaeus produces to as little purpose ; for although he doth mention the same instance of several men being of the same kind ; yet he speaks so expresly against a specifick vnity in god ; that he saith , the consequence must be , that the three persons must be three gods ; as three humane persons are three men. and in another place , that the father , son and holy ghost , are one in the same individual nature . and what saith curcellaeus to these places , for he was aware of them . to the latter he saith , that by individual , he means specifick . this is an extraordinary answer indeed . but what reason doth he give for it ? because they are not divided in place or time , but they may have their proper essences however . but where doth s. augustin give any such account of it ? he often speaks upon this subject ; but always gives another reason . viz. because they are but one and the same substance . the three persons are but one god , because they are of one substance ; and they have a perfect vnity , because there is no diversity of nature , or of will. but it may be said , that here he speaks of a diversity of nature . in the next words he explains himself , that the three persons are one god , propter ineffabilem conjunctionem deitatis ; but the union of three persons in one specifick nature , is no ineffable conjunction , it being one of the commonest things in the world ; and in the same chapter , propter individuam deitatem unus deus est ; & propter uniuscujusque proprietatem tres personae sunt . here we find one individual nature ; and no difference but in the peculiar properties of the persons . in the other place he is so express against a specifick vnity , that curcellaeus his best answer is , that in that chapter he is too intricate and obscure . i. e. he doth not to speak his mind . thus much i thought fit to say in answer to those undeniable proofs of curcellaeus , which our vnitarians boast so much of , and whether they be so or not , let the reader examine and judge . chap. vii . the athanasian creed clear'd from contradictions . iii. i now come to the last thing i proposed , viz. to shew , that it is no contradiction to assert three persons in the trinity and but one god ; and for that purpose , i shall examine the charge of contradictions on the athanasian creed . the summ of the first articles , say they , is this , the one true god is three distinct persons , and three distinct persons , father , son and holy ghost are the one true god. which is plainly , as if a man should say , peter , james and john , being three persons are one man ; and one man is these three distinct persons , peter , james and john. is it not now a ridiculous attempt as well as a barbarous indignity , to go about thus to make asses of all mankind , under pretence of teaching them a creed . this is very freely spoken , with respect , not merely to our church , but the christian world , which owns this creed to be a just and true explication of the doctrine of the trinity . but there are some creatures as remarkable for their untoward kicking , as for their stupidity . and is not this great skill in these matters , to make such a parallel between three persons in the godhead , and peter , iames and iohn ? do they think there is no difference between an infinitely perfect being , and such finite limited creatures as individuals among men are ? do they suppose the divine nature capable of such division and separation by individuals , as human nature is ? no , they may say , but ye who hold three persons must think so : for what reason ? we do assert three persons , but it is on the account of divine revelation , and in such a manner , as the divine nature is capable of it . for it is a good rule of boethius , talia sunt praedicata , qualia subjecta permiserint . we must not say that there are persons in the trinity , but in such a manner as is agreeable to the divine nature ; and if that be not capable of division and separation , then the persons must be in the same undivided essence . the next article is , neither confounding the persons , nor dividing the substance ; but how can we , say they , not confound the persons that have , as ye say , but one numerical substance ? and how can we but divide the substance , which we find in three distinct divided persons ? i think the terms numerical substance , not very proper in this case ; and i had rather use the language of the fathers , than of the schools ; and some of the most judicious and learned fathers would not allow the terms of one numerical substance to be applied to the divine essence . for their notion was , that number was only proper for compound b●ings , but god being a pure and simple being was one by nature and not by number , as s. basil speaks ( as is before observed ) because he is not compounded , nor hath any besides himself to be reckon'd with him . but because there are different hypostases , therefore they allow'd the use of number about them , and so we may say the hypostases or persons are numerically different ; but we cannot say that the essence is one numerically . but why must they confound the persons , if there be but one essence ? the relative properties cannot be confounded ; for the father cannot be the son ▪ nor the son the father ; and on these the difference of persons is founded . for , there can be no difference , as to essential properties , and therefore all the difference , or rather distinction must be from those that are relative . a person of it self imports no relation , but the person of the father or of the son must ; and these relations cannot be confounded with one another . and if the father cannot be the son , nor the son the father , then they must be distinct from each other . but how ? by dividing the substance ? that is impossible in a substance that is indivisible . it may be said , that the essence of created beings is indivisible , and yet there are divided persons . i grant it , but then a created essence is capable of different accidents and qualities to divide one person from another , which cannot be supposed in the divine nature ; and withall the same power which gives a being to a created essence , gives it a separate and divided existence from all others . as when peter , iames and iohn received their several distinct personalities from god ; at the same time he gave them their separate beings from each other , although the same essence be in them all . but how can we but divide the substance which we see in three distinct divided persons ? the question is , whether the distinct properties of the persons do imply a division of the substance ? we deny that the persons are divided as to the substance , because that is impossible to be divided ; but we say , they are and must be distinguished as to those incommunicable properties which make the persons distinct . the essential properties are uncapable of being divided , and the relations cannot be confounded ; so that there must be one undivided substance and yet three distinct persons . but every person must have his own proper substance ; and so the substance must be divided if there be three persons . that every person must have a substance to support his subsistence is not denied , but the question is , whether that substance must be divided or not . we say , where the substance will bear it , as in created beings , a person hath a separate substance , i. e. the same nature diversified by accidents , qualities and a separate existence , but where these things cannot be , there the same essence must remain undivided , but with such relative properties as cannot be confounded . but may not the same undivided substance be communicated to three divided persons ; so as that each person may have his own proper substance , and yet the divine essence be in it self undivided ? this is not the case before us . for the question upon the creed is , whether the substance can be divided ? and here it is allow'd to remain undivided . yes in it self , but it may be divided in the persons . the substance , we say , is uncapable of being divided any way ; and to say , that a substance wholly undivided in it self , is yet divided into as many proper and peculiar substances , as there are persons , doth not at all help our understanding in this matter ; but if no more be meant , as is expresly declared , than that the same one divine nature is wholly and entirely communicated by the eternal father to the eternal son ▪ and by father and son to the eternal spirit , without any division or separation ; it is the same which all trinitarians assert . and it is a great pity , that any new phrases or ways of expression should cause unreasonable heats among those who are really of the same mind . for those who oppose the expressions of three distinct substances as new and dangerous ; yet grant , that it is one peculiar prerogative of the divine nature and substance , founded in its infinite , and therefore transcendent perfection , whereby it is capable of residing in more persons than one ; and is accordingly communicated from the father to the son and holy ghost ; but this is done without any division or multiplication . now if both parties mean what they say , where lies the difference ? it is sufficient for my purpose that they are agrred , that there can be no division as to the divine essence by the distinction of persons . and so this passage of the athanasian creed holds good , neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance . the next article , as it is set down in the notes on athanasius his creed , is a contradiction to this . for there it runs , there is one substance of the father , another of the son , another of the holy ghost . they might well charge it with contradictions at this rate . but that is a plain mistake for person ; for there is no other variety in the copies but this , that baysius his greek copy hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and that of constantinople 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but all the latin copies persona . but what consequence do they draw from hence ? then , say they , the son is not the father , nor is the father the son , nor the holy ghost either of them . if they had put in person , as they ought to have done , it is what we do own . and what follows ? if the father be not the son , and yet is the one true god , then the son is not the one true god , because he is not the father . the one true god may be taken two ways : . the one true god , as having the true divine nature in him , and so the father is the one true god ; but not exclusive of the son , if he have the same divine nature . . the one true god , as having the divine nature so wholly in himself , as to make it incommunicable to the son ; so we do not say , that the father is the one true god , because this must exclude the son from being god ; which the scripture assures us that he is ; and therefore though the son be not the father , nor the father the son , yet the son may be the one true god as well as the father , because they both partake of the same divine nature , so that there is no contradiction in this , that there is but one true god , and one of the persons is not the other . for that supposes it impossible , that there should be three persons in the same nature ; but if the distinction of nature and persons be allow'd , as it must be by all that understand any thing of these matters , then it must be granted , that although one person cannot be another , yet they may have the same common essence . as for instance , let us take their own , peter , iames and iohn . what pleasant arguing would this be , peter is not iames nor iohn , nor iames nor iohn are peter , but peter hath the true essence of a man in him ; and the true essence is but one and indivisible ; and therefore iames and iohn cannot be true men , because peter hath the one and indivisible essence of a man in him ? but they will say , we cannot say that peter is the one true man , as we say , that the father is the one true god. yes ; we say the same in other words , for he can be said to be the one true god in no other respect , but as he hath the one true divine essence . all the difference lies , that a finite nature is capapable of division , but an infinite is not . it follows , the godhead of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost is all one , the glory equal , the majesty co-eternal . to this they say , that this article doth impugn and destroy it self . how so ? for , if the glory and majesty be the same in number , then it can be neither equal , nor co-eternal . not equal for it is the same , which equals never are , nor co-eternal for that intimates that they are distinct . for , nothing is co eternal , nor co temporary with it self . there is no appearance of difficulty or contradiction in this , if the distinction of persons is allowed ; for the three persons may be well said to be co-equal and co-eternal ; and if we honour the son , as we honour the father , we must give equal glory to him . but one great point of contradiction remains , viz. so that the father is god , the son is god , and the holy ghost is god , and yet there are not three gods ; but one god. first , they say , this is as if a man should say , the father is a person , the son a person , and the holy ghost a person , yet there are not three persons ; but one person . how is this possible , if a person doth suppose some peculiar property , which must distinguish him from all others ? and how can three persons be one person , unless three incommunicable properties may become one communicated property to three persons ? but they are aware of a distinction in this case , viz. that the term god is used personally , when it is said god the father , god the son , and god the holy ghost ; but when it is said , there are not three gods , but one god , the term god is used essentially , and therefore comprehends the whole three persons , so that there is neither a grammatical , nor arithmetical contradiction . and what say our vnitarians to this ? truly , no less , than that the remedy is worse , ( if possible ) than the disease . nay then , we are in a very ill case . but how i pray doth this appear ? . say they , three personal gods , and one essential god make four gods ; if the essential god be not the same with the personal gods : and tho' he is the same , yet since they are not the same with one another , but distinct , it follows , that there are three gods , i. e. three personal gods. . it introduces two sorts of gods , three personal and one essential . but the christian religion knows and owns but one , true and most high god of any sort . so far then , we are agreed , that there is but one , true and most high god ; and that because of the perfect vnity of the divine essence , which can be no more than one , and where there is but one divine essence , there can be but one true god , unless we can suppose a god without an essence , and that would be a strange sort of god. he would be a personal god indeed in their critical sense of a person for a shape or appearance . but may not the fame essence be divided ? that i have already shew'd to be impossible . therefore we cannot make so many personal gods , because we assert one and the same essence in the three persons of father , son and holy ghost . but they are distinct , and therefore must be distinct gods , since every one is distinct from the other . they are distinct as to personal properties , but not as to essential attributes ; which are and must be the same in all : so that here is but one essential god , and three persons . but after all , why do we assert three persons in the godhead ? not because we find them in the athanasian creed ; but because the scripture hath revealed that there are three , father , son and holy ghost ; to whom the divine nature and attributes are given . this we verily believe , that the scripture hath revealed ; and that there are a great many places , of which , we think no tolerable sense can be given without it , and therefore we assert this doctrine on the same grounds , on which we believe the scriptures . and if there are three persons which have the divine nature attributed to them ; what must we do in this case ? must we cast off the vnity of the divine essence ? no , that is too frequently and plainly asserted for us to call it into question . must we reject those scriptures which attribute divinity to the son and holy ghost , as well as to the father ? that we cannot do , unless we cast off those books of scripture , wherein those things are contained . but why do we call them persons , when that term is not found in scripture , and is of a doubtful sense ? the true account whereof i take to be this . it is observed by facundus hermianensis , that the christian church received the doctrine of the trinity before the terms of three persons were used . but sabellianism was the occasion of making use of the name of persons . it 's true , that the sabellians did not dislike our sense of the word person , ( which they knew was not the churches sense ) as it was taken for an appearance , or an external quality ; which was consistent enough with their hypothesis , who allow'd but one real person with different manifestations . that this was their true opinion , appears from the best account we have of their doctrine , from the first rise of sabellianism . the foundations of it were laid in the earliest and most dangerous heresies in the christian church , viz. that which is commonly called by the name of the gnosticks , and that of the cerinthians and ebionites . for how much soever they differ'd from each other in other things ; yet they both agreed in this , that there was no such thing as a trinity , consisting of father , son and holy ghost ; but that all was but different appearances and manifestations of god to mank●nd . in consequence whereof , the gnosticks denied the very humanity of christ , and the cerinthians and ebionites his divinity . but both these sorts , were utterly rejected the communion of the christian church ; and no such thing as sabellianism was found within it . afterwards , there arose some persons who started the same opinion within the church : the first we meet with of this sort , are those mention'd by theodoret , epigonus , cleomenes , and noëtus , from whom they were called noe●ians ; not long after , sabellius broached the same doctrine in pentapolis , and the parts thereabouts ; which made dionysius of alexandria appear so early and so warmly against it . but he happening to let fall some expressions , as though he asserted an inequality of hypostases in the godhead , complaint was made of it to dionysius then bishop of rome ; who thereupon explained that , which he took to be the true sense of the christian church in this matter . which is still preserved in athanasius : therein he disowns the sabellian doctrine , which confounded the father , son and holy ghost , and made them to be the same ; and withal , he rejected those who held three distinct and separate hypostases ; as the platonists , and after them the marcionists did . dionysius of alexandria , when he came to explain himself , agreed with the others and asserted the son to be of the same substance with the father ; as athanasius hath proved at large : but yet he said , that if a distinction of hypostases were not kept up , the doctrine of the trinity would be lost ; as appears by an epistle of his in s. basil. athanasius saith , that the heresie of sabellius lay in making the father and son to be only different names of the same person ; so that in one respect he is the father , and in another the son. gregory nazianzen in opposition to sabellianism , saith , we must believe one god , and three hypostases ; and commends athanasius for preserving the true mean , in asserting the vnity of nature , and the distinction of properties . s. basil saith , that the sabellians made but one person of the father and son : that in name they confessed the son ; but in reality they denied him . in another place , that the sabellians asserted but one hypostasis in the divine nature ; but that god took several persons upon him , as occasion required : sometimes that of a father , at other times of a son ; and so of the holy ghost . and to the same purpose , in other places he saith , that there are distinct hypostases with their peculiar properties ; which being joyned with the vnity of nature make up the true confession of faith. there were some who would have but one hypostasis ; whom he opposes with great vehemency ; and the reason he gives , is , that then they must make the persons to be meer names ; which is , sabellianisn . and , he saith , that if our notions of distinct persons have no certain foundation they are meer names , such as sabellius called persons . but by this foundation he doth not mean any distinct essences , but the incommunicable properties belonging to them , as father , son and holy ghost . it is plain from hence , that the necessity of asserting three hypostases , came from thence , that otherwise they could not so well distinguish themselves from the sabellians whose doctrine they utterly disowned ; as well as arianism and iudaism ; and it appears by the testimonies of athanasius , gregory nazianzen and s. basil , that they look'd on one as bad as the other ; and they commonly joyn iudaism , and sabellianism together . but yet there arose difficulties , whether they were to hold one hypostasis or three . the former insisted on the generally received sense of hypostasis for substance or essence ; and therefore they could not hold three hypostases without three distinct essences , as the platonists and marcionists held . upon this a synod was called at alexandria to adjust this matter , where both parties were desired to explain themselves . those who held three hypostases were asked , whether they maintained three hypostases as the arians did , of different substances and separate subsistences , as mankind and other creatures are ? or as other hereticks , three principles or three gods ? all which they stedfastly denied . then they were asked , why they used those terms ? they answered , because they believed the holy trinity to be more than mere names ; and that the father , and son , and holy ghost had a real subsistence belonging to them ; but still they held but one godhead , one principle , and the son of the same substance with the father ; and the holy ghost not to be a creature , but to bear the same proper and inseparable essence with the father and the son. then the other side were asked , when they asserted but one hypostasis , whether they held with sabellius or not ; and that the son and holy ghost had no essence or subsistence ? which they utterly denied ; but said , that their meaning was , that hypostasis was the same with substance ; and by one hypostasis , they intended no more , but that the father , son and holy ghost were of the same individual substance ; ( for the words are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and so they held but one godhead and one divine nature : and upon these terms they agreed . from whence it follows , that the notion of three hypostases , as it was received in the christian church , was to be under●●ood so as to be consistent with the individual vnity of the divine essence . and the great rule of the christian church was to keep in the middle , between the doctrines of sabellius and arius ; and so by degrees , the notion of three hypostases and one essence was look'd on in the eastern church , as the most proper discrimination of the orthodox from the sabellians and arians . but the latin church was not so easily brought to the use of three hypostases , because they knew no other sense of it , but for substance or essence ; and they all denied that there was any more than one divine substance , and therefore they rather embraced the word persona ; and did agree in the name of persons , as most proper to signifie their meaning , which was , that there were three which had distinct subsistences , and incommunicable properties , and one and the same divine essence . and since the notion of it is so well understood , to signifie such a peculiar sense , i see no reason why any should scruple the use of it . as to it s not being used in scripture , socinus himself despises it , and allows it to be no good reason . for when franciscus davides objected , that the terms of essence and person were not in scripture ; socinus tells him , that they exposed their cause who went upon such grounds ; and that if the sense of them were in scripture , it was no matter whether the terms were or not . h●ving thus clear'd the notion of three persons , i return to the sense of scripture about these matters . and our vnitarians tell us , that we ought to interpret scripture otherwise . how doth that appear ? they give us very little encouragement to follow their interpretations , which are so new , so forced , so different from the general sense of the christian world , and which i may say , reflect so highly on the honour of christ and his apostles , i. e. by making use of such expressions , which if they do not mean , what to honest and sincere minds they appear to do , must be intended ( according to them ) to set up christ a meer man to be a god. and if such a thought as this could enter into the mind of a thinking man , it would tempt him to suspect much more as to those writings than there is the least colour or reason for . therefore these bold inconsiderate writers ought to reflect on the consequence of such sort of arguments , and if they have any regard to christianity , not to trifle with scripture as they do . but say they , the question only is , whether we ought to interpret scripture when it speaks of god , according to reason or not , that is like fools or like wise men ? like wise men no doubt , if they can hit upon it , but they go about it as untowardly as ever men did . for is this to interpret scripture like wise men , to take up some novel interpretations , against the general sense of the christian church from the apostles times ? is this to act like wise men , to raise objections against the authority of the books , they cannot answer : and to cry out of false copies and translations without reason , and to render all places suspicious , which make against them ? is this to interpret scripture like wise men , to make our saviour affect to be thought a god , when he knew himself to be a mere man , and by their own confession had not his divine authority and power conferr'd upon him ? and to make his apostles set up the worship of a creature , when their design was to take away the worship of all such , who by nature are not gods ? is this like wise men , to tell the world , that these were only such gods , whom they had set up , and god had not appointed ; as though there were no real idolatry but in giving divine worship without god's command . chap. viii . the socinian sense of scripture examined . but they must not think to escape so easily for such a groundless and presumptuous saying ; that they interpret the scripture not like fools , but like wise men : because the true sense of scripture is really the main point between us ; and therefore i shall more carefully examine the wise sense they give of the chief places which relate to the matter in hand . . is this to interpret scripture like wise men , to make the author to the hebrews in one chapter , and that but a short one , to bring no less than four places out of the old testament , and according to their sense , not one of them proves that which he aimed at ? viz. that christ was superiour to angels , heb. . . as will appear by the sense they give of them . for unto which of the angels said he at any time , thou art my son , this day have i begotten thee ? these words , say they , in their original and primary sense are spoken of david , but in their mystical sense are a prophecy concerning christ. was this mystical sense primarily intended or not ? if not , they are only an accommodation and no proof . but they say , even in that mystical sense , they were intended not of the lord christ's supposed eternal generation from the essence of the father , but of his resurrection from the dead . but if that be not taken as an evidence of his being the eternal son of god , how doth this prove him above angels ? heb. . . and again , when he bringeth his first begotten into the world , he saith , and let all the angels of god worship him . this , one would think home to the business . but our wise interpreters tell us plainly , that the words were used by the psalmist on another occasion , i. e. they are nothing to the purpose . but being told of this , instead of mending the matter , they have made it far worse ; for upon second thoughts , ( but not wiser ) they say , the words are not taken out of the psalm , but out of deut. . . where the words are not spoken of god , but of god's people ; and if this be said of god's people , they hope it may be said of christ too , without concluding from thence , that christ is the supreme god. but we must conclude from hence , that these are far from being wise interpreters ; for what consequence is this , the angels worship god's people , therefore christ is superiour to angels ? heb. . . thy throne o god is for ever and ever , i. e. say they , god is thy throne for ever . and so they relate not to christ but to god. and to what purpose then are they brought ? heb. . . thou lord in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth , and the heavens are the work of thy hands . these words , say they , are to be understood not of christ , but of god. which is to charge the apostle with arguing out of the old testament very impertinently . is this interpreting the scriptures like wise men ? is it not rather exposing and ridiculing them ? is this to interpret scripture like wise men , to give such a forced sense of the beginning of s. john's gospel , as was never thought of from the writing of it , till some in the last age thought it necessary to avoid the proof of christ's divinity from it . for the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was never taken , in the sense they put upon it , for him that was to preach the word , in s. iohn's time ; but the signification of it was then well understood from the alexandrian school ( as appears by philo ) whence it was brought by cerinthus into those parts of asia , where s. iohn lived when he wrote his gospel : and one of themselves confesses , that cerinthus did by the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mean something divine , which rested upon , and inhabited the person of iesus , and was that power by which god created original matter and made the world , but as the christ or the word descended on iesus at his baptism , so it left him at his crucifixion . that which i observe from hence is , that there was a known and current sense of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 at the time of s. iohn's writing his gospel , very different from that of a preacher of the word of god ; and therefore i cannot but think it the wisest way of interpreting s. john , to understand him in a sense then commonly known ; and so he affirms the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to have been in the beginning , i. e. before the creation ( for he saith afterwards , all things were made by him ) and that he was with god , and was god ; and this word did not inhabit iesus , as cerinthus held , but was made flesh and dwelt among us . and so s. iohn clearly asserted the divinity and incarnation of the son of god. and in all the disputes afterwards with paulus samosatenus , and photinus , it appears , that they understood the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not for any meer man , but for some divine power , which rested upon the person of iesus . so that this was a very late , and i think no very wise interpretation of s. iohn . and even sandius confesses , that socinus his sense was wholly new and unheard of in the ancient church ; not only among the fathers , but the hereticks , as i have before observed . for they agreed ( except their good friends the alogi who went the surest way to work ) that by the word no meer man was understood . let them produce one if they can , saith sandius ( even the learned and judicious sandius . ) did they all interpret the scriptures like fools , and not like wise men ? but if the christian interpreters were such fools ; what think they of the deists , whom they seem to have a better opinion of , as to their wisdom ? what , if men without biass of interest , or education think ours the more proper and agreeable sense ? the late archbishop to this purpose had mentioned amelius the platonist , as an indifferent iudge . but what say our wise interpreters to this ? truly they say , that the credit of the trinitarian cause runs very low , when an uncertain tale of an obscure platonist of no reputation for learning or wit , is made to be a good part of the proof , which is alledged for these doctrines . if a man happen to stand in their way , he must be content with such a character , as they will be pleased to give him . if he had despised s. iohn's gospel , and manner of expression , he had been as wise as the alogi ; but notwithstanding the extraordinary character given of friend amelius ( as they call him ) by eusebius , by porphyrius , by proclus , and by damascenus , this very saying of his sinks his reputation for ever with them . what would iulian have given for such a wise interpretation of s. iohn ? when he cannot deny , but that he did set up the divinity of christ by these expressions ; and upbraids the christians of alexandria , for giving worship to iesus as the word and god ? with what satisfaction would he have received such a sense of his words ; when he complemented photinus for denying the divinity of christ ; while other chrians asserted it ? but they do not by any means deal fairly with the late archbishop as to the story of amelius ; for they bring it in , as if he had laid the weight of the cause upon it ; whereas he only mentions it , as a confirmation , of a probable conjecture , that plato had the notion of the word of god from the jews ; because that was a title which the jews did commonly give to the messias , as he proves from philo , and the chaldee paraphrast . to which they give no manner of answer . but they affirm in answer to my sermon , p. . that socinus his sense was , that christ was called the word , because he was the bringer or messenger of gods word . but were not the iews to understand it in the sense it was known among them ? and if the chaldee paraphrast had used it in that sense , he would never have applied it to a divine subsistance , as upon examination it will appear that he doth . of which rittangel gives a very good account , who had been a iew , and was very well skilled in their ancient learning . he tells us , that he had a discourse with a learned vnitarian upon this subject , who was particularly acquainted with the eastern languages ; and he endeavoured to prove , that there was nothing in the chaldee paraphrasts use of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because it was promiscuously used by him for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where it was applied to god. this rittangel denied ; and offer'd to prove , that the chaldee paraphrast did never use that word in a common manner , but as it was appropriated to a divine subsistance . he produces several places where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is put , and nothing answering to word in the hebrew , as gen. . . the chaldee hath it , the word of iehovah shall be my god. exod. . . and iehovah said , he would redeem them by his word , exod. . . your murmurings are not against us , but against the word of iehovah , exod. . . and moses brought the people out to meet the word of iehovah , levit. . . these are the statutes and iudgments , and laws , which iehovah gave between his word and the children of israel by the hand of moses , numb . . . ye have despised the word of iehovah whose divinity dwelt among you , numb . . . the word of iehovah is with him , and the divinity of their king is among them , deut . . the word of iehovah shall fight for you , deut. . . these forty years the word of iehovah hath been with thee , deut. . . ye did not believe in the word of iehovah your god , deut . . iehovah thy god , his word is a consuming fire , deut. . . i stood between the word of iehovah and you , to shew you the word of the lord , deut. . . . iehovah thy god , his word shall go with thee , with many other places , which he brings out of moses his writings ; and there are multitudes to the same purpose in the other books of scripture ; which shews , saith he , that this term the word of god , was so appointed for many ages ; as appears by all the chaldee paraphrasts and the ancient doctors of the iews . and he shews by several places , that the chaldee paraphrast did not once render 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when there was occasion for it ; no , not when the word of god is spoken of with respect to a prophet ; as he proves by many testimonies ; which are particularly enumerated by him . the result of the conference was , that the vnitarian had so much ingenuity to confess , that unless those words had another sense , their cause was lost ; and our faith had a sure foundation . but it may be objected that morinus hath since taken a great deal of pains to prove the chaldee paraphrasts , not to have been of that antiquity , which they have been supposed by the iews to be of . in answer to this , we may say in general , that morinus his great proofs are against another chaldee paraphrast of very small reputation , viz. of ionathan upon the law ; and not that of onkelos , which rittangel relied upon in this matter . and none can deny this to have been very ancient ; but the iews have so little knowledge of their own history , but what is in scripture , that very little certainty can be had from them . but we must compare the circumstances of things , if we would come to any resolution in this matter . now it is certain , that philo the alexandrian iew , who lived so very near our saviours time , had the same notion of the word of god , which is in the chaldee paraphrast : whose testimonies have been produced by so many already , that i need not to repeat them . and eusebius saith , the jews and christians had the same opinion as to christ , till the former fell off from it in opposition to the christians ; and he particula●ly instances in his divinity . but if morinus his opinion be embraced , as to the lateness of these chaldee paraphrases , this inconvenience will necessarily follow , viz. that the iews when they had changed so much their opinions , should insert those passages themselves which assert the divinity of the word . and it can hardly enter into any mans head that considers the humour of the jewish nation , to think , that after they knew what s. iohn had written concerning the word ; and what use the christians made of it to prove the divinity of christ , they should purposely insert such passages in that paraphrase of the law which was in such esteem among them , that elias levita saith , they were under obligation to read two parascha●s out of it every week , together with the hebrew text. now , who can imagine that the iews would do this upon any other account , than that it was deliver'd down to them , by so ancient a tradition , that they durst not discontinue it . and it is observed in the place of scripture which our saviour read in the synagogue , that he follow'd neither the hebrew nor the greek , but in probability the chaldee paraphrase ; and the words he used upon the cross , were in the chaldee dialect . the later iews have argued against the trinity , and the divinity of christ like any vnitarians , as appears by the collection out of ioseph albo , david kimchi , &c. published by genebrard , with his answers to them . and is it any ways likely , that those who were so much set against these doctrines , should themselves put in such expressions , which justifie what the evangelist saith about the vvord , being in the beginning , being with god , and being god ? the substance of what i have said , as to s. iohn's notion of the word is this ; that there is no colour for the sense which socinus hath put upon it ; either from the use of it among other authors , or any interpretation among the jews . but that there was in his time a current sense of it , which from the jews of alexandria , was dispersed by cerinthus in those parts where he lived . that for such a notion there was a very ancient tradition among the jews , which appears in the most ancient paraphrase of the law , which is read in their synagogues . and therefore according to all reasonable ways of interpreting scripture , the word cannot be understood in s. iohn , for one whose office it was to preach the word , but for that word which was with god before any thing was made , and by whom all things were made . . is this to interpret scripture like wise men , to give a new sense of several places of scripture from a matter of fact of which there is no proof , the better to avoid the proof of the divinity of the son of god ? this relates to the same beginning of s. iohn's gospel , the word was with god ; and several other places , making mention of his descent from heaven . the sense which these wise interpreters put upon them is , that christ was rapt up into heaven , before he entred upon his preaching . but where is this said ? what proof , what evidence , what credible witnesses of it , as there were of his transfiguration , resurrection and ascension ? nothing like any proof is offer'd for it ; but it is a wise way they think of avoiding a pressing difficulty . but they have a farther reach in it , viz. to shew how christ , being a mere man , should be qualified for so great an undertaking as the founding the christian church ; and therefore they say , that before our lord entred upon his office of the messias ▪ he was taken up to heaven to be instructed in the mind and will of god ( as moses was into the mount , exod. . , , . ) and from thence descended to execute his office , and declare the said will of god. in another place , that when it is said , the word was with god ; that is , the lord christ was taken up into heaven to be instructed in all points relating to his ambassage or ministry . in a third , they say , that our saviour before he entred upon his ministry , ascended into heaven , as moses did into the mount , to be instructed in all things belonging to the gospel doctrine and polity which he was to establish and administer . now considering what sort of person they make christ to have been , viz. a mere man ; this was not ill thought of by them ; to suppose him taken up into heaven and there instructed in what he was to teach and to do , as moses was into the mount before he gave the law. but here lies a mighty difference ; when moses was called up into the mount , the people had publick notice given of it ; and he took aaron and his sons , and seventy elders of israel with him ; who saw the glory of god , v. . and all israel beheld the glory of the lord as a devouring fire on the top of the mount , v. . and after the days were over , it is said , that moses came down from the mount , and the children of israel saw him with his face shining , exod. . . now if christ were taken up into heaven , as moses was into the mount , why was it not made publick at that time ? why no witnesses ? why no appearance of the glory to satisfie mankind of the truth of it ? and yet we find , that when he was transfigured on the holy mount , he took peter , and james , and john with him ; which circumstance is carefully mention'd by the evangelists . and peter , who was one of the witnesses then present , lays great weight upon this being done in the presence of witnesses . for we have not follow'd cunningly devised fables , when we made known unto you the power and coming of our lord iesus christ , but were eye-witnesses of his majesty . for he received from god the father , honour and glory , when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory — . and this voice which came from heaven we heard , when we were with him in the holy mount. now let any one compare this with the account which they give of christ's ascension into heaven . the transfiguration was intended only for a particular testimony of god's favour , before his suffering ; but even in that , he took care there should be very credible witnesses of it . and is it then possible to believe , there should be such an ascension of christ into heaven , for no less a purpose , than to be instructed in his ambassage , and to understand the mind and will of god as to his office ; and yet not one of the evangelists give any account of the circumstances of it ? they are very particular , as to his birth , fasting , baptism , preaching , miracles , sufferings , resurrection and ascension ; but not one word among them all as to the circumstances of this being taken up into heaven for so great a purpose ? if it were necessary to be believed , why is it not more plainly revealed ? why not the time and place mention'd in scripture , as well as of his fasting and temptation ? who can imagine it consistent with that sincerity and faithfulness of the writers of the new testament , to conceal so material a part of christ's instructions and qualifications ; and to wrap it up in such doubtfull expressions , that none ever found out this meaning till the days of socinus ? enjedinus mentions it only as a possible sense ; b●t he confesses , that the new testament saith nothing at all of it ; but , saith he , neither doth it mention other things before he entred upon his office. but this is a very weak evasion , for this was of greatest importance with respect to his office , more than his baptism , fasting and temptation ; yet these are very fully set down . and after all , our vnitarians themselves seem to mistrust their own interpretations ; for in their answer to my sermon , they say , it is not the doctrine of all the unitarians , and refer me to another account given of these texts in the history of the unitarians . there indeed i find grotius his interpretation ( as they call it ) prefer●d before that of socinus . but they say , grotius was socinian all over , and that his annotations are a compleat system of socinianism ; and his notes on the first of s. john are written artificially , but the sense at the bottom is theirs . in short , that the word , according to grotius , is not an eternal son of god , but the power a●d wisdom of god ; which abiding without measure on the lord christ , is therefore spoken of as a person and as one with christ , and he with that . and this notion of the word leads a man through all the difficulties of this chapter , with far more ease than any hitherto offer'd . but these wise interpreters have as much misinterpreted grotius , as they have done the scriptures , as i shall make it appear . ( . ) grotius on iohn . . interprets christ's ascension into heaven , of his corporal ascent thither after his resurrection , where the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or word was before , of whom it is said , that the word was with god. but how comes christ to assume that to himself which belong'd to the word ? he answers , why not , since we call body and soul by the name of the man ? but if no more were meant by the word , but a divine attribute of wisdom and power , what colour could there be for the son of man taking that to himself , which belonged to an attribute of god ? what strange way of arguing would this have been ? what , and if ye shall see the son of man ascending where he was before ? for according to this sense , how comes a divine attribute to be called the son of man ? how could the son of man be said to ascend thither , where a divine attribute was before ? the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , must relate to him spoken of before ; and how could the power and wisdom of god be ever said to be the son of man ? but if we suppose a personal union of the word with the human nature in christ , then we have a very reasonable sense of the words ; for then no more is imply'd , but that christ , as consisting of both natures , should ascend thither , where the word was before ; when it is said , that the word was with god ; and so grotius understands it . ( . ) grotius doth not make the word in the beginning of s. john 's gospel to be a mere attribute of wisdom and power , but the eternal son of god. this i shall prove from his own words . . he asserts in his preface to s. iohn's gospel , that the chief cause of his writing was universally agreed to have been to prevent the spreading of that venom which had been then dispersed in the church ; which he understands of the heresies about christ and the word . now among these , the heresie of cerinthus was this very opinion which they fasten upon grotius ; viz. that the word was the divine wisdom and power inhabiting in the person of iesus , as i have shew'd before from themselves . and besides , grotius saith , that the other evangelists had only intimated the divine nature of christ from his miraculous conception , miracles , knowing mens hearts , perpetual presence , promise of the spirit , remission of sins , &c. but s. john , as the time required , attributed the name and power of god to him from the beginning . so that by the name and power of god , he means the same which he called the divine nature before . . he saith , that when it is said , the word was with god ; it ought to be understood as ignatius explains it , with the father ; what can this mean , unless he understood the word to be the eternal son of god ? and he quotes tertullian , saying , that he is the son of god , and god ex unitate substantiae ; and that there was a prolation of the word without separation . now what prolation can there be of a meer attribute ? how can that be said to be the son of god begotten of the father , without division , before all worlds , as he quotes it from iustin martyr ? and that he is the word , and god of god , from theophilus antiochenus ? and in the next verse , when it is said , the same was in the beginning with god ; it is repeated on purpose , saith he , that we might consider , that god is so to be understood , that a distinction is to be made between god , with whom he was , and the word who was with god ; so that the word doth not comprehend all that is god. but our wise interpreters put a ridiculous sense upon it ; as though all that grotius meant was , that gods attributes are the same with himself ( which although true in it self , is very impertinent to grotius his purpose ) and that the reason why he saith , that the word is not all that god is , was , because there were other attributes of god besides . but where doth grotius say any thing like this ? is this wise interpreting ? or honest and fair dealing ? for grotius immediately takes notice from thence of the difference of hypostases ; which he saith was taken from the platonists , but with a change of the sense . . when it is said , v. . that all things were made by him ; grotius understands it of the old creation , and of the son of god. for , he quotes a passage of barnabas , where he saith , the sun is the work of his hands ; and several passages of the fathers to prove , that the world and all things in it were created by him ; and he adds , that nothing but god himself is excepted . what say our wise interpreters to all this ? nothing at all to the purpose ; but they cite the english geneva translation ( when they pretend to give grotius his sense ) and add , that the word now begins to be spoken of as a person by the same figure of speech , that solomon saith , wisdom hath builded her house , &c. doth grotius say any thing like this ? and yet they say , let us hear grotius interpreting this sublime proeme of s. john 's gospel . but they leave out what he saith , and put in what he doth not say ; is not this interpreting like wise men ? . the vvord was made flesh , v. . i. e. say the vnitarians as from grotius ; it did abode on , and inhabit a humane person , the person of iesus christ ; and so was in appearance made flesh or man. but what saith grotius himself ? the word that he might bring us to god , shew'd himself in the weakness of humane nature ; and he quotes the words of s. paul for it , tim. . . god was manifest in the flesh : and then produces several passages of the fathers to the same purpose . is not this a rare specimen of wise interpreting , and fair dealing with so considerable a person , and so well known , as grotius ? who , after all , in a letter to his intimate friend ger. i. vossius , declares that he owned the doctrine of the trinity ; both in his poems and his catechism ; after his reviewing them ; which epistle is printed before the last edition of his book about christ's satisfaction ; as an account to the world of his faith as to the trinity . and in the last edition of his poems , but little before his death , he gives a very different account of the son of god from what these vnitarians fasten upon him . and now let the world judge , how wisely they have interpreted both s. iohn , and his commentator grotius ? iv. is this to interpret scripture like wise men , to make our saviour's meaning to be expressly contrary to his words ? for when he said : before abraham was , i am ; they make the sense to be that really he was not , but only in gods decree , as any other man may be said to be . this place the late archbishop ( who was very far from being a socinian , however his memory hath been very unworthily reproached in that , as well as other respects , since his death ) urged against the socinians , saying , that the obvious sense of the words is , that he had a real existence , before abraham was actually in being , and that their interpretation about the decree is so very flat , that he can hardly abstain from saying it is ridiculous and the wise answer they give is , that the words cannot be true in any other sense , being spoken of one who was a son , and descendant of abraham . which is as ridiculous as the interpretation ; for it is to take it for granted , he was no more than a son of abraham . v. is this to interpret scripture like wise men , to say , that when our saviour said in his conference with the iews , i am the son of god , his chief meaning was , that he was the son of god in such a sense , as all the faithful are called gods children ? is not this doing great honour to our saviour ? especially when they say , that he never said of himself any higher thing than this , which is true of every good man , i am the son of god. and yet the iews accused him of blasphemy , for making himself the son of god ; and the high priest adjured him to tell , whether he were the christ the son of god. did they mean no more , but as any good man is ? but mr. selden saith , that by the son of god the jews meant , the word of god ( as he is called in the chaldee para●hrast ) which was all one , as to profess himself god : and our learned dr. pocock saith , that according to the sense of the ancient iews , the son of god spoken of , psal. . was the eternal son of god , of the same substance with the father . and by this we may understand s. peter's confession , thou art the christ , the son of the living god ; and nathanael's , thou art the son of god. but it is plain the iews in the conference thought he made himself god , by saying , i and my father are one. not one god , say our wise interpreters , but as friends are said to be one. and what must they think of our saviour the mean time , who knew the iews understood him quite otherwise , and would not undeceive them ? but they say , the jews put a malicious construction upon his words . how doth that appear ? do they think the iews had not heard what passed before in some former conferences , when they thought he had made himself equal with god ; and that he said , that all men should honour the son , even as they honoured the father ? these sayings no doubt stuck with them ; and therefore from them , they had reason to think that he meant something extraordinary , by his saying , i and my father are one. and if they were so wise in interpreting scripture , as they pretend , they would have considered , that if these things did not imply his being really the son of god , according to the old jewish notion , he would have severely checked any such mis-constructions of his meaning , and have plainly told them , he was but the son of man but s. paul's character of him doth plainly shew , that he was far from any thing like vanity or ostentation , although he was in the form of god , and thought it no robbery to be equal with god ; which must imply that he was very far from assuming any thing to himself ; which he must do in a very high measure , if he were not really the son of god , so as to be equal with god. the meaning whereof , say our wise interpreters , is , he did not rob god of his honour by arrogating to himself to be god , or equal with god. but what then do they think of these passages in his conferences with the iews ? was he not bound to undeceive them , when he knew they did so grossly mis-understand him , if he knew himself to be a meer man at the same time ? this can never go down with me , for they must either charge him with affecting divine honour , which is the highest degree of pride and vanity , or they must own him to be , as he was , the eternal son of god. vi. is this interpreting scripture like wise men , to deny divine worship to be given to our saviour when the scripture so plainly requires it ? when i had urged them in my sermon with the argument from divine worship being given to christ ; they do utterly deny it , and say , i may as well charge them with the blackest crimes . this i was not a little surprized at , knowing how warmly socinus had disputed for it . but that i might not misunderstand them , i look'd into other places in their late books , and from them i gather these things . . they make no question but some worship is due to the lord christ , but the question is concerning the kind or sort of worship . . they distinguish three sorts of worship . . civil worship from men to one another . . religious worship given on the account of a persons holiness , or relation to god ; which is more or less , according to their sanctity or nearer relation to god . divine worship which belongs only to god ; which consists in a resignation of our vnderstandings , wills and affections , and some peculiar acts of reverence and love towards him . the two former may be given to christ , they say , but not the last . from whence it follows , that they cannot according to their own principles , resign their vnderstandings , wills , and affections to christ ; because this is proper divine worship . are not these very good christians the mean while ? how can they believe sincerely , and heartily what he hath revealed , unless they resign their vnderstandings to him ; how can they love and esteem him , and place their happiness in him , if they cannot resign their wills and affections to him ? i think never any who pretended to be christians , durst venture to say such things before and all for fear they should be thought to give divine worship to christ. but they confess , that they are divided among themselves about the invocation of christ. those who are for it , say , that he may be the object of prayer , without making him god , or a person of god , and without ascribing to him the properties of the divine nature , omnipresence , omniscience , or omnipotence . those who deny it , they say , do only refuse it , because they suppose he hath forbidden it , which makes it a meer error . and in the new testament , they say , the charge is frequently renewed , that they are to worship god only . and as great writers as they have been these last seven years , they affirm that , they have wrote no book in that time in which they have not been careful to profess to all the world , that a like honour or vvorship ( much less the same ) is not to be given to christ as to god. and now i hope we understand their opinion right as to this matter . the question is , whether this be interpreting those scriptures which speak of the honour and worship due to christ , like wise men ? and for that i shall consider , . that herein they are gone off from the opinion of socinus and his followers , as to the sense of scripture in those places . . that they have done it in such a way , as will justifie the pagan and popish idolatry ; and therefore have not interpreted scripture like wise men. . that they are gone off from the opinion of socinus and his followers , who did allow divine worship to christ. this appears by the disputes he had with franciscus davidis and christianus francken about it . the former was about the sense of scripture . socinus produced all those places which mention the invocation of christ , and all those wherein s. paul saith , the grace of our lord iesus christ be with you all ; and the lord iesus christ direct our way , &c. and all those wherein a divine power and authority is given to christ as head of the church , for the support of the faith and hope of all those who believe in him in order to salvation . and this socinus truly judged to be proper divine worship . georg. blandrata was unsatisfied , that socinus did not say enough to prove the necessity of the invocation of christ , which he said he could do from his priesthood and his power , from the examples of the apostles , and the very nature of adoration . and blandrata was a man of great authority among the vnitarians ; and he thought socinus ought to assert the necessity of it ; or else he would do injury both to christ and to his cause . in the dispute with francken , socinus went upon this ground , that divine authority was a sufficient ground for divine worship , although there were not those essential attributes of omnisciency and omnipotency . but i observe , that socinus did not look on this as a matter of liberty , as our vnitarians now seem to do ; for in the preface to the former dispute , he calls the error of denying the invocation of christ , not , as they now do , a simple error or a mere mistake ; but a most filthy and pernicious error , an error that leads to iudaism , and is in effect the denying of christ ; and in the latter dispute he saith , that it tends to epicurism and atheism . and smalcius saith , that they are no christians who refuse giving divine worship to christ. . is it like wise men , to go upon such grounds as will justifie both pagan and popish idolatry ? this they have been charged with , and we shall see what wise men they are , by the defences they make for themselves . . as to pagan idolatry , they say , . they had no divine command for such a worship . this was well thought of , when they confess , that some among themselves deny that there is any command for invocating christ , and therefore they must charge all those who do it with idolatry . but this is no very wise notion of idolatry , which depends upon the nature of the worship , and not the meer positive will of god. . they set up the creatures more than the creator , as s. paul saith . s. paul doth not think them such fools , that they took the creatures to be above the creator , which was impossible , while they owned one to be the creator and the other the creatures ; but that they g●ve such acts of worship to them , as belonged only to the creator , and exceeded in the worship of them those bounds which ought to be between them . . they set up an infinite number of gods who had been mere men. this is , as if the question were only , whether one , or a great many were to have such worship given them : as if it were a dispute about a monarchy or a common-wealth of gods. but if it be lawfull to give divine worship to one creature , it is to a hundred . . their worship was terminated on them , and so they made true gods of men. suppose they asserted one supreme god , and made the rest subordinate to him , and appointed by him to be the immediate directors of humane affairs . i desire to know , whether the adoration of such were idolatry or not ? if it were , they cannot be excused who give adoration to christ , while they esteem him a mere creature ; if not , all the wiser pagans must be excused . . as to the papists , the difference they make , is not like wise interpreters of scripture ; for they say , . they have no text of scripture , which commands them to worship s. peter , s. paul and s. francis. so some among them say , there is none for the invocation of christ , and with them the case is parallel . but if socinus his principle be true , that communicated excellency is a sufficient foundation for worship , because it is relative to the giver , then the papists must be justified in all their relative acts of worship without any text to command it . . they exceed the bounds of honour and respect due to glorified saints . but who is to set these bounds but themselves in all acts of relative worship , because they depend upon the intention of the persons ? and they hold the very same things concerning communicated knowledge and power from god , which our vnitarians make use of to justifie their notion of the invocation of christ. vii . is this interpreting scripture like wise men , to turn s. paul's words , of whom as concerning the flesh christ came , who is over all , god blessed for ever , into a thanksgiving to god for the exaltation of christ , i. e. god who is over all be blessed for ever . but what reason do they give for such a forced and unusual sense , besides the avoiding the difficulty of having the name of god given here to christ ? a very substantial one . if the words had been intended of christ , it would have been in the greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which they have taken up from erasmus and curcellaeus . but beza , who understood greek as well as either , ( and curcellaeus owned him for his master in that tongue ) saith , he could not sufficiently wonder at this criticism of erasmus , and thinks it a violent and far-fetched interpretation , and not agreeable to the greek idiom , and that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the same there with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and which may signifie more to our vnitarians , one of the learnedst men they have had among them , utterly disowns this interpretation , and saith , that the whole verse belongs to christ. but if that will not do , they have another fetch in the case , viz. that it is very probable that the word god was not originally in the text. how doth this appear to be very probable ? of that , we have this account : grotius observes , that the greek copies , used by the author of the syriac , had not the word god , and that erasmus had noted , that the copies of s. cyprian , s. hilary and s. chrysostom had only blessed over all , or above all , without the word god ; upon which he charges his adversary with no less than impiety in concealing this ; and calls it , cheating his reader . but how if all this prove a gross mistake in him ; unless it be only , that grotius and erasmus come in for their shares . it 's true , that grotius saith , that the word god was left out in the syriac version . but f. simon , whose authority they sometimes magnifie as to critical learning , saith plainly , that grotius was mistaken , and that the word god is in all the old copies , and in all the old versions . and upon his bringing erasmus to prove that it was not in s. cyprian , s. hilary , and s. chrysostome , he cries out , where is sincerity ? erasmus had met with one faulty edition which had it not , but he saith , all the rest of the mss. have it . and the learned oxford annotators , both on s. cyprian , and the greek testament compar'd with mss. ( which excellent work we hope will shortly appear more publickly ) declare , that they found it in all the mss. they could meet with ; and even erasmus himself saith , that the omission in s. hilary might be only by the negligence of the transcribers ; and so it appears by the late edition out of the best mss. where the words are , ex quibus christus qui est super omnia deus . and for s. chrysostom , all that is said , is , that it doth not appear that he read it , but he thinks it might be added afterwards . but what a sort of proof is this against the general consent of mss. for s. chrysostom doth not say he thought so . erasmus very plainly saith , that it is clearer than the sun , that christ is called god in other places of scripture ; but grotius can by no means be excused , nor those that rely upon him as to this place . viii . is this interpreting scripture like wise men , to take advantage of all omissions in copies , when those which are entire ought to be preferr'd ? this i mention for the sake of another noted place , tim. . . god was manifest in the flesh. here our wise interpreters triumph unreasonably ; viz for , they say , it appears by the syriac , latin , aethiopick , armenian , arabick , and most ancient greek bibles , that the word god was not originally in this text but added to it . but the arabick in all the polyglotts hath god in ; the syriac and aethiopick , if we believe their versions , read it in the masculine gender , and therefore in the king of spain's bible , guido fabricius boderianus puts in deus . as to the armenian , i have nothing to say , but what f. simon tells us from vscan an armenian bishop ; that there was great variety in their copies , and that their first translation was out of syriac and not out of greek . and the main point is , as to the old greek copies ; and we are assured , that there is but one , viz. the clermont copy which leaves out god , but that it is in the alexandrian , the vatican and all others ; and curcellaeus mentions no more than the clermont copy . it is therefore necessary to examine in this place , the authority of this clermont copy , ( as it is called ) whose reading is set up against all other ancient greek copies . beza affirms it with great confidence , that all the greek copies have god with one consent . but how comes he to take no notice of this difference of the clermont copy ? for that he had a sight of that part of it , which hath the epistles of s. paul , appears by his notes in which he refers to it . for he mentions it three times in his notes on rom. . v. . . . and in one he calls it a very ancient manuscript written in large letters . what should make beza pass it over here ? it seems by morinus that in the clermont copy , there was a correction made by another hand ; which is put into the various lections of the polyglott in morinus his words . but how doth it appear , that beza's clermont copy was the very same which morinus had ? morinus saith , he had it from the f. f. puteani ; ( and is the same i suppose with that in the king of france's library ; of which they were then the keepers ) but morinus intimates that it was an old copy , which fell into their hands ; and so might come into the french king's library , when they gave their own manuscripts to it . this seems to have been the same which p. pithaeus speaks of ; for the description exactly agrees with it ; but pithaeus , who was a person of great integrity and learning , affirms , that this volume of the epistles in great letters came out of the monastery of corbey ; and so it could not be the clermont copy which beza had . and i shall make it appear from the very places mention'd by morinus , that beza's copy did differ from that which morinus perused , as rom. . . morinus his copy had 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; beza takes notice of it only in the vulgar latin ; which he would never have done , if it had been in the clermont copy , rom . . for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 morinus reads in that copy 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and saith it is the true reading : but beza condemns it , and never intimates that his copy had it , rom. . . morinus saith , the reading of his copy is the true , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : beza saith , it is against all the greek copies but one , and that hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; whether beza were mistaken as to other copies is not our business to enquire ; but if the reading had been in his copy as morinus found it ; he could never have said , that but one copy had that different reading . rom. . , morinus his copy had it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; beza takes no notice of any difference . rom. . , morinus reads 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . beza saith , it is not in the greek copies ; and he had then the clermont by him : but it is both in that of the french king's library , and of s. germain's ; which agree with each other , where beza's copy differs ; and beza upon rom. . . and . observes , that his clermont copy differs from the rest ; by which we see how careful he was to observe the variuos readings in it ; and so upon rom. . , , , . rom. . . beza observes , that the vulgar latine leaves out part of the verse , but that it is found in all the greek copies ; here morinus charges beza with negligence , or dis-ingenuity ; because it was left out in the clermont copy ; but how doth he prove he had the same copy ? he saith indeed , that the ancient copy , which he had was lent to beza ; but he tells not by whom , nor in whose possession it was afterwards . but if beza were a man of any ordinary care or honesty , he would never have concealed those things , which morinus found in it . cor. . , beza saith , that those words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , are in all the greek copies ; morinus saith , that they were wanting in that which he made use of . it 's true , they are wanting in the alexandrian , and some others ; but in none that beza had the sight of ▪ if he may be believed . these are sufficient to shew , that there is no good proof , that the ●opy which beza had was the same which morinus borrow'd ; and therefore his authority is not to be slighted in this matter , when he affirms , that all the greek copies agreed in reading god manifest in the flesh ; and i cannot imagine beza so intolerably careless as he must have been , if morinus his copy and beza's were the same . but whether it were in beza's copy or not , it 's certain , they say , that it is not in that ancient manuscript , which is called the clermont copy ; which is affirmed by morinus , and taken for granted by others , therefore we must enquire a little farther into the authority of this ancient copy . it appears by those who have view'd and considered them , that there are two very ancient copies of s. paul's epistles , so exactly agreeing , that one is supposed to be the transcript of the other ; one is in the king's library , the other in the monastery of s. germains . which mabillon saith is a thousand years old . these two copies are in effect but one , agreeing so much where they differ from others ; and having the old latin version opposite to the greek . monsieur arnauld had so bad an opinion of both parts of this clermont copy , ( as it is called ) that he charges it with manifest forgery , and imposture ; inserting things into the text without ground . f. simon who defends them cannot deny several things to be inserted , but he saith , it was through carelessness and not design . but he confesses , that those who transcribed both those ancient copies of s. paul 's epistles did not understand greek , and hardly latin . and now let us consider , of what just authority this different reading of the clermont copy ought to be against the consent of all other ancient copies . we find some good rules laid down by the roman criticks , when they had a design under vrban th . to compare the greek text of the new testament , with their ancient manuscripts in the vatican , and elewhere , and to publish an exact edition of it ( which collation was preserved in the barberin library , and from thence published by pet. possinus . ) and the main rules as to the various lections of manuscripts were these , . that the text was not to be alter'd but a concurrence of all , or the greatest part of the manuscripts . . that if one manuscript agreed with the vulgar latin , the text was not to be alter'd , but the difference to be set down at the end of the chapter . but it is observable in that collation of twenty two manuscripts , there is no one copy produced , wherein there is any variety as to this place . i know they had not twenty two manuscripts of s. paul's epistles , ( they mention but eight ancient manuscripts ) but they found no difference in those they had . and now i leave any reasonable man to judge , whether this clermont copy ought to be relied upon in this matter . but i have something more to say about the greek copies . . that god is in the complutensian polyglott , which was the first of the kind , and carried on by the wonderful care and expence of that truly grea● man cardinal ximenes , who spared for no cost or pains in procuring the best ancient copies both hebrew and greek ; and the fittest men to judge of both languages . and in pursuit of this noble design , he had the best vatican manuscripts sent to him ( as is expressed in the epistle before his greek testament , ) and what others he could get out of other places , among which he had the codex britannicus mention'd by erasmus . but after all these copies made use of by the editors , there is no intimation of any variety as to this place ; although the vulgar latin be there as it was . but erasmus mentions the great consent of the old copies as to the vulgar latin , and whence should that come , but from a variety in the old greek copies . to that i answer , . that the greek copies , where they were best understood had no variety in them ; i. e. among the greeks themselves . as appears by gregory nyssen , s. chrysostom , theodoret , oecumenius and theophylact. but doth not monsieur amelote say , that the marquiss of velez had sixteen old manuscripts , out of which he gathered various readings , and he reads it o! i cannot but observe , how he commends fabricius and walton , for rendring the syriac version according to the vulgar latin ; but that will appear to be false , to any one that looks into them ; the former is mentioned already ; and the latter translates it , quod manifestatus sit in carne . but as to the marquiss of velez his copies , there is a secret in it , which ought to be understood , and is discover'd by mariana . he confesses , he had so may manuscripts , eight of them out of the escurial , but that he never set down whence he had his readings . and in another place , he ingenuously confesses , that his design was to justifie the vulgar latin ; and therefore collected readings on purpose , and he suspects some , out of such greek copies , as after the council of florence were made comfortable to the latin . which readings were published by la cerda , whose authority amelote follows . and now what reason can there be , that any such late copies should be prefer'd before those which were used by the greek fathers ? . that the latin fathers did not concern themselves about changing their version , because they understood it still to relate to the person of christ. so do s. ierom , leo , hilary , fulgentius , and others . as to the objections about liberatus , macedonius and hincmarus , i refer them to the learned oxford annotations . ix . it is not wisely done of these interpreters , to charge our church so much for retaining a verse in s. iohn's first epistle , when they had so good authority to do it ? the verse is , there are three that bear record in heaven , the father , son , and holy ghost , &c. from hence they charge us with corrupted copies and false translations ; as an instance of the former , they produce this text , which they say , was not originally in the bible , but is added to it , and is not found in the most ancient copies of the greek , nor in the syriac , arabick , ethiopick , or armenian bibles , nor in the most ancient latin bibles . notwithstanding all which , i hope to be able to shew , that our church had reason to retain it . for which end we are to consider these things ; . that erasmus first began to raise any scruple about it . for , however it might not be in some mss. which were not look'd into , this verse was constantly and solemnly read as a part of scripture both in the greek and latin churches , as mr. selden confesses , and that it was in wickliff's bible . so that here was a general consent of the eastern and western churches for the receiving it ; and although there might be a variety in the copies , yet there was none in the publick service , and no objections against it that we find . but erasmus his authority sway'd so much here , that in the bibles in the time of h. . and e. . it was retained in a different letter . as in tyndell's bible printed by the king's printer , a. d. . and in the church bible of king e. . in both which they are read , but not in the same character . yet erasmus his authority was not great enough to cast it out , if he had a mind to have done it . which doth not appear , for he saith himself , that finding it in the codex britannicus , as he calls it , he restored it in his translation as well as the greek testament , out of which he had expunged it befo●e in two editions . and the complutensian bible coming out with it , added greater authority to the keeping of it in , and so it was preserved in the greek testaments of hervagius , plautin and r. stephens and others , after the mss. had been more diligently searched . morinus saith , it was in seven of rob. stephens his mss. but f. simon will not allow that it was in any but the complutensian , which is a strange piece of boldness in him . for beza saith , he had the use of them all from him ; and h. stephens let him have his father's copy compared with mss. and he affirms , that he found it in several of r. stephens his old mss. besides the codex britannicus and the complutensian copy , and therefore he concludes , that it ought to be retained . ( and so it was , after these copies were come abroad in the bishop's bible , under queen elizabeth , without any distinction of character , as likewise in our last translation . ) and it is observable , that amelote affirms , that he found it in the most ancient greek copy in the vatican library ; but the roman criticks confess , it was not in their mss. yet they thought it fit to be retained from the common greek copies , and the testimonies of the fathers agreeing with the vulgar latin. . this verse was in the copies of the african churches from s. cyprian's time , as appears by the testimonies of s. cyprian , fulgentius , facundus , victor vitensis , and vigilius tapsensis , which are produced by others . f. simon hath a bold conjecture , of which he is not sparing , that victor vitensis is the first who produced it as s. john 's saying ; and that it was s. cyprian 's own assertion and not made use of by him as a testimony of scripture . but they who can say such things as these , are not much to be trusted . for s. cyprian's words are , speaking of s. iohn before , et iterum de patre & filio scriptum est , & hi tres unum sunt . and it was not victor vitensis , but the african bishops and eugenius in the head of them , who made that address to huneric , wherein they say , that it is clearer than light , that father , son and holy ghost are one god , and prove it by the testimony of s. john. tres sunt qui testimonium perhibent in caelo , pater , verbum & spiritus sanctus , & hi tres unum sunt . . in the former testimony , the authority of the vulgar latin was made use of : and why , is it rejected here ? when morinus confesses there is no variety in the copies of it . vulgata versio hunc versum constanter habet . and he observes , that those of the fathers , who seem to omit it ( as s. augustin against maximinus ) did not follow the old latin version . lucas brugensis , saith only , that in old copies , they found it wanting but in five . as to s. ierom's prologue , i am not concerned to defend it ; but erasmus thought it had too much of s. jerom in it , and others think it hath too little . f. simon confesses , that p. pithaeus and mabillon think it was s. ierom's , and that it was in the mss. but i conclude with saying , that whoever was the author , at the time when it was written , the greek copies had this verse , or else he was a notorious impostor . x. the next thing i shall ask these wise interpreters of scripture , is , whether , when the scripture so often affirms , that the world was made by the son , and that all things were created by him in heaven and in earth , it be reasonable to understand them of creating nothing ? for after all their shifts and evasions it comes to nothing at last . but that we may see , how much they are confounded with these places , we may observe , . they sometimes say , that where the creation of all things is spoken of , it is not meant of christ but of god. for in the answer they give to the place of the epistle to the colossians , they have these words : for by him all things were created , are not spoken of christ , but of god : the sense of the whole context is this , the lord christ is the most perfect image of the invisible god , the first born from the dead of every creature ; for , o colossians , by him , even by the invisible god were all things created ; they were not from all eternity , nor rose from the concourse of atoms , but all of them , whether things in heaven , or things in earth ; whether thrones , or dominions , or principalities , or powers , are creatures , and were by god created , who is before them all , and by him they all consist . this is a very fair concession , that of whomsoever these words are spoken he must be god. . but in the defence of this very book they go about to prove , that the creation of the world is not meant by these words . is not this interpreting like wise men indeed ? and they tell us , they cannot but wonder , that men should attribute the old or first creation to christ. wise men do not use to wonder at plain things . for what is the old or first creation , but the making the world , and creating all things in heaven and earth ? and these things are attribu●ed to the word , to the son to christ. but say they , the scripture does never say in express words ▪ that christ hath created the heaven and the earth . what would these wise interpreters have ? doth not by whom all things were created in heaven and earth imply , that heaven and earth were created by him ? but they have a notable observation from the language of the new testament , viz that christ is never said to have created the heaven , the earth , and the sea , and all that therein is ; but we are apt to think , that creating all things takes in ●he sea too , and that in the scripture language heaven and earth are the same with the world , and i hope the world takes in the sea ; and the world is said to be made by him , and do not all things take in all ? no , say they , all things are limited to all thrones , principalities and powers , visible and invisible . then , however the making of these is attributed to christ. and if he made all powers , visible and invisible , he must be god. not so neither . what then is the meaning of the words , by him were all things created that are in heaven and in earth , visible and invisible ; whether they be thrones , or dominions , or principalities , or powers , all things were created by him and for him ? surely then , these dominions and powers were created by him . no , say they , that which we render created , ought to be rendred , modelled , disposed , or reformed into a new order . were ever wise men driven to such miserable shifts ? one while these words are very strong and good proof of the creation of the world against atheists and epicureans , and by and by they prove nothing of all this , but only a new modelling of some things called dominions and powers . do they hope ever to convince men at this rate of wise interpreting ? well , but what is this creating or disposing things into a new order ? and who are these dominions and powers ? they answer , men and angels . how are the angels created by him and for him ? did he die to reform them , as well as mankind ? no , but they are put under him . and so they were created by him , that is , they were not created by him , but only made subject to him . but who made them subject to him ? the man christ iesus ? no , god appointed him to be the lord of every creature . then they were not created by christ , but by god ; but the apostle saith , they were created by christ. but god made him head of the church , and as head of the body he rules over all . this we do not at all question ; but how this comes to be creating dominions and powers , visible and invisible . did god make the earth and all the living creatures in it , when he made man lord over them ? or rather was man said to create them , because he was made their head ? if this be their interpreting scripture like wise men , i shall be content with a less measure of understanding , and thank god for it . xi . lastly , is this to interpret scripture like wise men , to leave the form of baptism doubtful , whether it were not inserted into s. matthew's gospel ; or to understand it in another sense than the christian church hath done from the apostles times ? i say first , leave it doubtful , because they say , that learned criticks have given very strong reasons why they believe these words . in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost , were not spoke by our saviour , but have been added to the gospel of s. matthew , from the common form and practise of the church . why are these strong reasons of learned criticks mentioned , but to raise doubts in peoples minds about them ? but they declare afterwards against them . not too much of that . for they say , only , that they are not without their weight , but they have observed several things that make them think , that this text is a genuine part of scripture . very wisely and discreetly spoken ! the reasons are strong and weighty ; but they think otherwise . i wish they had told the world , who these learned criticks were ; lest it should be suspected that they were their own inventions . but i find a certain nameless socinian was the author of them ; and his words are produced by sandius ( a person highly commended by them for his industry and learning , but as much condemned by others , for want of skill or ingenuity . ) the reason of writing these reasons sandius freely confesses was , because this place clearly proved a trinity of persons against the socinians . but what are these very strong and weighty reasons ? for it is great pity , but they should be known . in the first place he observes , that s. matthew's gospel was written in hebrew , and the original he saith is lost ; and he suspects that either s. jerom was himself the translator into greek and latin ( who was a corrupter of scripture , and origen ) or some unknow person : from whence it follows , that our gospel of s. matthew is not of such authority , that an article of such moment should depend upon it . is not this a very strong and weighty reason ? must not this be a very learned critick who could mention s. ierom , as translator of s. matthews gospel into greek ? but then one would think this interpreter might have been wise enough to have added this of himself . no ; he dares not say that , but that it was added by transcribers . but whence or how ? to that he saith , that they seem to be taken out of the gospel according to the egyptians . this is great news indeed . but comes it from a good hand ? yes , from epiphanius . and what saith he to this purpose ? he saith , that the sabellians made use of the counterfeit egyptian gospel , and there it was declared that father , son and holy ghost were the same . and what then ? doth he say they borrowed the form of baptism from thence ? nothing like it . but on the contrary , epiphanius urges this very form in that place against the sabellians : and quotes s. matthew's authority for it . but this worthy author produces other reasons , which sandius himself laughs at , and despises ? and therefore i pass them over . the most material seems to be if it hold , that the most ancient writers on s. matthew take no notice of them , and he mentions origen , hilary , and s. chrysostom , but these negative arguments sandius thinks of no force . origen and s. chrysostom , he saith , reach not that chapter ; the opus imperfectum , which was none of his , doth not ; but his own commentaries do , and there he not only mentions the form , but takes notice of the compendious doctrine delivered by it , which can be nothing else but that of the trinity . in the greek catena on s. matthew there is more mentioned , viz. that christ had not then first his power given him ; for he was with god before , and was himself by nature god. and there gregory nazianzen saith , the form of baptism was in the name of the holy trinity ; and he there speaks more fully . remember , saith he , the faith into which thou wert baptized . into the father ? that is well , but that is no farther than the jews go ( for they own one god , and one person . ) into the son ? that is beyound them , but not yet perfect . into the holy ghost ? yes , saith he , this is perfect baptism . but what is the common name of these three , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . plainly , that of god. but this learned critick observes , that hilary in some copies takes no notice of this form. that is truly observed , for the very conclusion is not hilary's , but taken out of s. ierom ; but if he had look'd into hilary's works , he would have found the form of baptism owned , and asserted by him . for he not only sets it down as the form of faith , as well as our baptism appointed by christ ; but argues from it , against the sabellians and ebionites , as well as others . thus we see how very strong and weighty the arguments of this learned critick were . chap. ix . the general sense of the christian church , proved from the form of baptism , as it was understood in the first ages . but our vnitarians pretend , that they are satisfied , that the form of baptism is found in all copies , and all the ancient translations ; and that it was used before the council of nice , as appears by several places of tertullian . but how then ? there are two things stick with them . ( . ) that the ante-nicene fathers do not alledge it to prove the divinity of the son , or holy ghost . ( . ) that the form of words here used , doth not prove the doctrine of the trinity . both which must be strictly examined . . as to the former . it cannot but seem strange to any one conversant in the writings of those fathers ; when s. cyprian saith expressly , that the form of baptism is prescribed by christ , that it should be in plenâ & aduna●â trinitate : i. e. in the full confession of the holy trinity ; and therefore , he denied the baptism of the marcionites , because the faith of the trinity was not sincere among them , as appears at large in that epistle . and this , as far as i can find , was the general sense of the ante-nicene fathers , as well as others . and it is no improbable opinion of erasmus , and vossius , two learned criticks indeed , that the most ancient creed went no further than the form of baptism , viz. to believe in the father , son and holy ghost ; and the other articles were added as heresies gave occasion . s. ierom saith , that in the traditional creed , which they received from the apostles , the main article was , the confession of the trinity ; to which he joyns the vnity of the church , and resurrection of the flesh ; and then adds , that herein is contained , omne christiani dogmatis sacramentum , the whole faith into which christians were baptized . and he saith , it was the custom among them to instruct those who were to be baptized for forty days in the doctrine of the holy trinity . so that there was then no question but the form of baptism had a particular respect to ●t ; and therefore , so much weight is laid upon the use of it , as well by the ante-nicene fathers , as others . for , tertullian saith , that the form of baptism was prescribed by our saviour himself as a law to his church . s. cyprian to the same purpose , that he commanded it to be used s. augustin calls them , the words of the gospel , without which there is no baptism . the reason given by s. ambrose is , because the faith of the trinity is in this form. but how if any one person were left out ? he thinks , that if the rest be not denied , the baptism is good ; but otherwise , vacuum est omne mysterium , the whole baptism is void . so that the faith of the trinity was that which was required in order to true baptism , more than the bare form of words . if there were no reason to question the former , s. ambrose seems of opinion that the baptism was good , although every person were not named , and therein he was followed by beda , hugo de sancto victore , peter lombard and others . and s basil in the greek church , asserted that baptism in the name of the holy ghost was sufficient , because he is hereby owned to be of equal dignity with the father and son ; but it is still supposing that the whole and undivided trinity be not denied . and he elsewhere saith , that baptizing in the name of the father , son and holy ghost is a most solemn profession of the trinity in vnity , because they are all joyned together in this publick act of devotion . but others thought that the baptism was not good , unless every person were named ; which opinion generally obtained both in the greek and latin church . and the late editors of s. ambrose observe , that in other places he makes the whole form of words necessary as well as the faith in the holy trinity . the baptism of the eunomians was rejected , because they alter'd the form and the faith too , saying , that the father was uncreate , the son created by the father , and the holy ghost created by the son. the baptism of the samosatenians was rejected by the council of nice . s. augustin thinks it was because they had not the right form , but the true reason was , they rejected the doctrine of the trinity . and so the council of arles i. doth in express words refuse their baptism who refused to own that doctrine . that council was held a. d. . and therefore bellarmin , and others after him , are very much mistaken , when they interpret this canon of the arians , concerning whose baptism there could be no dispute till many years after . but this canon is de afris ; among whom the custom of baptizing prevailed ; but this council propounds an expedient as most agreeable to the general sense of the christian church , viz. that if any relinquished their heresie and came back to the church , they should ask them the creed , and if they found that they were baptized in the name of the father , son and holy ghost , they should have only imposition of hands , but if they did not confess the trinity , their baptism was declared void . now this i look on as an impregnable testimony of the sense of the ante-nicene fathers , viz. that they did not allow that baptism which was not in the name of the father , son and holy ghost ; or ( which they understood to be the same ) in the confession of the faith of the trinity . how then can our vnitarians pretend , that the ante-nicene fathers did not alledge the form of baptism to prove the trinity ? for the words are , if they do n●t answer to this trinity let them be baptized , saith this plenary cou●cil , as s. augustin often calls it . what trinity do they mean ? of mere names or cyphers , or of one god and two creatures joyned in the same form of words , as our vnitarians understand it ? but they affirm , that the ancients of years do not insist on this text of s. matthew to prove the divinity or personality of the son or spirit . therefore to give a clear account of this matter , i shall prove , that the ante-nicene fathers did understand these words , so as not to be taken , either for mere names , or for creatures joyned with god ; but that they did maintain the divinity of the son and holy ghost , from the general sense , in which these words were taken among them . and this i shall do from these arguments ; . that those who took them in another sense , were opposed and condemned by the christian church . . that the christian church did own this sense in publick acts of divine worship as well as private . . that it was owned and defended by those who appeared for the christian faith against infidels . and i do not know any better means than these , to prove such a matter of fact as this . . the sense of the christian church may be known by its behaviour towards those , who took these words only for different names or appearances of one person . and of this we have full evidence , as to praxeas , noëtus and sabellius , all long before the council of nice . praxeas was the first , at least in the western church , who made father , son and holy ghost , to be only several names of the same person , and he was with great warmth and vigor opposed by tertullian , who charges him with introducing a new opinion into the church , as will presently appear . and his testimony is the more considerable , because our vnitarians confess , that he lived years before the nicene council , and that he particularly insists upon the form of baptism against praxeas . but to what purpose ? was not his whole design in that book to prove three distinct persons of father , son and holy ghost , and yet but one god ? doth he not say expresly , that christ commanded that his disciples should baptize into the father , son and holy ghost , not into one of them ; ad singula nomina in personas singulas tingimur . in baptism we are dipped once at every name , to shew that we are baptized into three persons . it is certain then , that tertullian could not mistake the sense of the church so grosly , as to take three persons to be only three several names . he grants to praxeas , that father , son and holy ghost are one , but how ? per unitatem substantiae , because there is but one divine essence : but yet he saith , there are three , not with respect to essential attributes , for so they are unius substantiae , & unius status , & unius potestatis , quia unus deus . and therefore the difference can be only as to personal properties and distinct capacities , which he calls gradus , forma , species , not merely as to internal relations , but as to external dispensations , which he calls their oeconomy . for his great business is to prove against praxeas , that the son and holy ghost had those things attributed to them in scripture , which could not be attributed to the father . for praxeas asserted , that the father suffer'd ; and thence his followers were called patripassians and monarchici , i. e. vnitarians . the main ground which praxeas went upon , was the vnity of the godhead , so often mention'd in scripture , from hence tertullian saith , that he took advantage of the weakness of the common sort of christians , and represented to them , that whereas the doctrine of christ made but one god , those who held the trinity according to the form of baptism , must make more gods than one . tertullian answers , that they held a monarchy , i. e. unicum imperium , one supreme godhead , and a supreme power may be lodged in distinct persons and administred in several manners ; that nothing overthrew the divine monarchy , but a different power and authority , which they did by no means assert . they held a son , but of the substance of the father , and a holy ghost from the father by the son : he still keeps to the distinction of persons , and the vnity of substance . and he utterly denies any division of essences or separate substances ; for therein , he saith , lay the heresie of valentinus , in making a prolation of a separate being . but although he saith , the gospel hath declared to us , that the father is god , the son god , and the holy ghost god , yet we are taught that there is still but one god : redactum est jam nomen dei & domini in unione , c. . whereby the christians are distinguished from the heathens who had many gods this is the force of what tertullian saith upon this matter . and what say our vnitarians to it ? they cannot deny that he was an ante-nicene father ; and it is plain that he did understand the form of baptism so as to imply a trinity of persons in an vnity of essence : to which they give no answer . but i find three things objected against tertullian by their friends : . that tertullian brought this doctrine into the church from montanus , whose disciple he then was . so schlichtingius in his preface against meisner , grants , that he was very near the apostolical times , and by his wit and learning promoted this new doctrine about the trinity , especially in his book against praxeas . but how doth it appear , that he brought in any new doctrine ? yes , saith schlichtingius , he confesses , that he was more instructed by the paraclete . but if he had dealt ingenuously , he would have owned that in that very place , he confesses , he was always of that opinion , although more fully instructed by the paraclete ? this only shews that montanus himself innovated nothing in this matter , but endeavoured to improve it . and it is possible , that tertullian might borrow his similitudes and illustrations from him , which have added no ●●rength to it . but as to the main of the doctrine he saith , it came from the rule of faith delivered by the apostles , before praxeas , or any hereticks his predecessors . which shews , that those who rejected this doctrine were always esteemed hereticks in the christian church . and this is a very early testimony of the antiquity and general reception of it , because as one was received the other was rejected , so that the assertors of it were accounted hereticks . and the sense of the church is much better known by such publick acts , than by mere particular testimonies of the learned men of those times . for when they deliver the sense of the church in such publick acts , all persons are judges of the truth and falshood of them at the time when they are deliver●d ; and the nearer they came to the apostolical times , the greater is the strength of their evidence ; this i ground on tertullian's appealing to the ancient rule of faith , which was universally known and received in the christian church , and that such persons were look'd on as hereticks who differ'd from it . which being so very near the apostles times , it 's hardly possible to suppose , that the whole christian church should be mistaken as to what they received as the rule of faith , which was deliver'd and explained at baptism , and therefore the general sense of the form of baptism must be understood by all who were admitted to it . so that the members of the christian church cannot be supposed better acquainted with any thing than the doctrine they were baptized into . here then we have a concurrence of several publick acts of the church . . the form of baptism . . the rule of faith relating to that form , and explained at baptism . . the churches rejecting those as hereticks who differ'd from it : which tertullian applies to those who rejected the trinity . and praxeas his doctrine was then condemned , not by a particular sentence , but by the general sense of the church at that time . for optatus milevitanus reckons him among the condemned hereticks , and joyns him with marcian and valentinus , as well as sabellius , who follow'd him in the same heresie . how was this possible , if praxeas deliver'd the true doctrine , and tertullian brought in a new opinion as schlichtingius fansies . tertullian was at that time a declared montanist ; and if he had introduc'd a new doctrine about the trinity , can we imagine those would have been silent about it , who were sharp enough upon tertullian for the sake of his paraclete ? some of the followers of montanus afterwards fell into the same opinions with praxeas , as theodoret tells us , and tertullian saith as much of those cataphrygians who follow'd aeschines : but these montanists are distinguished from the rest . and rigaltius observes , that tertullian follow'd montanus chiefly in what related to discipline , and that himself was not so corrupted in point of doctrine as some of his followers were . . it 's objected , that tertullian's doctrine is inconsistent with the doctrine of the trinity ; for he denies the eternal generation of the son ; and only asserts an emission of him before the creation . but my business is not to justifie all tertullian's expressions or similitudes ; for men of wit and fancy love to go out of the road , and sometimes involve things more by attempts to explain them ; but i keep only to that which he saith , was the faith of the church from the beginning ; and i see no reason to call in question his fidelity in reporting , however he might be unhappy in his explications . . tertullian himself saith , schlichtingius , in other places , where he speaks of the rule of faith , doth not mention the holy ghost ; and therefore this seems added by him for the sake of the paraclete . but this can be of no force to any one that considers , that tertullian grounds his doctrine not on any new revelation by the paraclete , but on the rule of faith received in the church long before ; and upon the form of baptism prescribed by our saviour . will they say , the holy ghost was there added for the sake of montanus his paraclete ? and in another of his books , he owns the father , son and holy ghost to make up the trinity in vnity . wherein petavius himself confesses , that he asserted the doctrine of the church in a catholick manner ; although he otherwise speaks hardly enough of him . the next i shall mention , is novatian , whom schlichtingius allows , to have been before the nicene-council ; and our modern vnitarians call him a great man , whoever he was , and very ancient . and there are two things i observe in him . . that he opposes sabellianism ; for , before his time praxeas and noetus were little talked of , especially in the western church ; but sabellius his name and doctrine were very well known by the opposition to him , by the bishops of alexandria and rome . he sticks not , at the calling it heresie several times ; and disputes against it , and answers the objection about the vnity of the godhead . . that he owns , that the rule of faith requires our believing in father , son and holy ghost ; and asserts the divine eternity of it , and therefore must hold the doctrine of the trinity to be the faith of the church contained in the form of baptism . for he saith , the authority of faith , and the holy scriptures admonish us to believe not only in the father and son , but in the holy ghost . therefore the holy ghost must be considered , as an object of faith joyned in the scripture with the other two , which is no where more express , than in the form of baptism , which as s. cyprian saith , was to be administred in the full confession of the trinity , in the place already mention●d . and it is observable that s. cyprian rejects the baptism of those who denied the trinity at that time , among whom he instances in the patripassians , who it seems were then spread into africa . the dispute about the marcionites baptism was upon another ground , for they held a real trinity , as appears by dionysius romanus in athanasius , and epiphanius , &c. but the question was , whether they held the same trinity or not . s. cyprian saith , that our saviour appointed his apostles to baptize in the name of father , son and holy ghost , and in the sacrament of this trinity they were to baptize . doth marcion hold this trinity ? so that s. cyprian supposed the validity of baptism to depend on the faith of the trinity . and if he had gone no farther , i do not see how he had transgressed the rules of the church ; but his error was , that he made void baptism upon difference of communion , and therein he was justly opposed . but the marcionites baptism was rejected in the eastern church , because of their doctrine about the trinity . in the parts of asia about ephesus , noetus had broached the same doctrine , which praxeas had done elsewhere . for which he was called to an account , and himself with his followers we cast out of the churches communion , as epiphanius reports , which is another considerable testimony of the sense of the church at that time . epiphanius saith , he was the first who broached that blasphemy ; but theodoret mentions epigonus and cleomenes before him ; it seems , that he was the first who was publickly taken notice of for it ; and therefore underwent the censure of the church with his disciples . when he was first summon'd to answer , he denied that he asserted any such doctrine ; because no man before him saith epiphanius , had vented such poison . and in the beginning he saith , that noetus out of a spirit of contradiction had utter'd such things , as neither the prophets , nor the apostles , nor the church of god ever thought or declared . now what was this unheard of doctrine of noetus ? that appears best by noetus his answer upon his second appearance which was , that he worshipped one god , and knew of no other , who was born and suffer'd , and died for us ; and for this he produced the several places which assert the vnity of the godhead , and among the rest one very observable , rom. . . of whom as concerning the flesh christ came , who is over all god blessed for ever . from whence he inferr'd that the son and the father were the same , and the same he affirmed of the holy ghost . but from hence we have an evident proof that the most ancient greek copies in noetus his time , which was long before the council of nice , had god in the text. epiphanius brings many places of scripture to prove the distinction of persons in the unity of the godhead ; but that is not my present business , but to shew the general sense of the church at that time . i do not say that noetus was condemned by a general council ; but it is sufficient , to shew that he was cast out of the church , where he broached his doctrine , and no other church received him , or condemned that church which cast him out , which shews an after consent to it . now what was this doctrine of noetus ? the very same with that of praxeas at rome . theodoret saith , this his opinon was , that there was but one god the father , who was himself impassible , but as he took our nature , so he was passible and called the son. epiphanius more fully , that the same person was father , son and holy ghost ; wherein he saith , he plainly contradicts the scriptures , which attribute distinct personalities to them ; and yet assert but one godhead . the father hath an hypostasis of his own , and so have the son and holy ghost ; but yet there is but one divinity , one power , and one dominion ; for these distinct persons are , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; of the same individual essence and power . but epiphanius was no ante-nicene father : however in matters of antiquity , where there is no incongruity in the thing , we may make use of his authority ; and i think no one will question , that noetus was condemned ; which was the thing i produced him to prove . but although noetus was condemned , yet this doctrine did spread in the eastern parts ; for origen mentions those who confounded the notion of father and son , and made them but one hypostasis , and distinguished only by thought , and denomination . this doctrine was opposed not only by origen , but he had the sense of the church concurring with him , as appears in the case of beryllus bishop of bostra , who fell into this opinion , and was reclaimed by origen ; and eusebius gives this account of it , that there was a concurrence of others with him in it , and that this doctrine was look'd on as an innovation in the faith. for his opinion was that our saviour had no proper subsistence of his own before the incarnation ; and that the deity of the father alone was in him . he did not mean that the son had no separate divinity from the father , but that the deity of the father only appeared in the son ; so that he was not really god , but only one in whom the deity of the father was made manifest . which was one of the oldest heresies in the church , and the most early condemned and opposed by it . but those heresies , which before had differenced persons from the church , were now spread by some at first within the communion of it ; as it was not only in the case of noetus and beryllus , but of sabellius himself , who made the greatest noise about this doctrine ; and his disciples , epiphanius tells us , spread very much both in the eastern and western parts ; in mesopotamia and at rome . their doctrine , he saith , was , that father , son and holy ghost were but one hypostasis , with three different denominations . they compared god to the sun , the father to the substance , the son to the light , and the holy ghost to the heat which comes from it ; and these two latter were only distinct operations of the same substance . epiphanius thinks that sabellius therein differ'd from noetus , because he denied that the father suffer'd ; but s. augustin can find no difference between them . all that can be conceived is , that a different denomination did arise from the different appearance and operation ; which our vnitarians call three relative persons , and one subsisting person . sabellius did spread his heresie most in his own country ; which was in pentapolis of the cyrenaick province , being born in ptolemais one of the five cities there . of this dionysius bishop of alexandria gives an account in his epistle to xystus then bishop of rome , wherein he takes notice of the wicked and blasphemous heresie , lately broached there against the persons of the father , son and holy ghost . letters on both sides were brought to him , on which occasion he wrote several epistles , among which there was one to ammonius bishop of bernice , another of the cities of pentapolis . in this , he disputed with great warmth against this doctrine of sabellius , insomuch , that he was afterwards accused to dionysius of rome , that he had gone too far the other way ; and lessen'd the divinity of the son by his similitudes ; of which he clear'd himself , as appears by what remains of his defence in athanasius . but as to his zeal against sabellianism it was never question'd . dionysius of rome declares his sense at large in this matter against both extremes , viz. of those who asserted three separate and independent principles , and of those who confounded the divine persons ; and he charges the doctrine of sabellius too with blasphemy , as well as those who set up three different principles , and so made three gods. but he declares the christian doctrine to be , that there were father , son and holy ghost ; but that there is an indivisible vnion in one and the same godhead . it seems dionysius of alexandria was accused for dividing and separating the persons , to which he answers , that it was impossible he should do it , because they are indivisible from each other ; and the name of each person did imply the inseparable relation to the other , as the father to the son , and the son to the father , and the holy ghost to both . and this judgment of these two great men in the church concerning sabellianism , was universally receiv'd in the christian church . and this happen'd long before the nicene council . . another argument of the general sense of the christian church is from the hymns and doxologies publickly received ; which were in the most solemn acts of religious worship made to father , son and holy ghost . the force of this argument appears hereby , that divine worship cannot be given to mere names , and an equality of worship doth imply an equality of dignity in the object of worship , and therefore , if the same acts of adoration be performed to father , son and holy ghost , it is plain , that the christian church did esteem them to have the same divine nature , although they were distinct persons . and if they were not so , there could not be distinct acts of divine worship performed to them . s. basil mentions this doxology of africanus , ( that ancient writer of the christian church ) in the fifth book of his chronicon , we render thanks to him who gave our lord iesus christ to be a saviour , to whom with the holy ghost be glory and majesty for ever . and another of dionysius alexandrinus in his d . epistle to dionysius of rome . to god the father and his son our lord iesus christ with the holy ghost , be glory and power for ever and ever , amen . and this is the more considerable , because he saith he did herein follow the ancient custom and rule of the church ; and he joyned with it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , praising god in the same voice with those who have gone before us , which shews how early these doxologies to father , son and holy ghost , had been used in the christian church . but to let us the better understand the true sense of them , s. basil hath preserved some passages of dionysius alexandrinus which do explain it , viz. that either the sabellians must allow three distinct hypostases , or they must wholly take away the trinity . by which it is evident , that by father , son and holy ghost he did understand three distinct hypostases , but not divided ; for that appears to have been the sabellians argument , that if there were three , they must be divided : no saith dionysius , they are three whether the sabellians will or not ; or else there is no trinity : which he look'd on as a great absurdity to take away , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the divine trinity . of what ? of mere names or energies ? that is no trinity ; for there is but one subsisting person of separate and divided substances : that the sabellians thought must follow but both the dionysius's denied it . and in another passage there mention'd , dionysius of alexandria asserts the trinity in vnity . but before dionysius , he quotes a passage of clemens romanus concerning father , son and holy ghost , which attributes life distinctly to them . now life cannot belong to a name or energy , and therefore must imply a person . but that which is most material to our purpose , is the publick doxology in the church of neo-caesarea , brought in by gregory thaumaturgus . s. basil gives a very high character of him , as of a person of extraordinary piety and exactness of life , and a great promoter of christianity in those parts , and by him the form of doxology was introduced into that church , being chiefly formed by him ( there being but seventeen christians when he was first made bishop there ) which was , glory to god the father , and son with the holy ghost , which ought to be understood according to the sense of the maker of it . and gregory hath deliver'd his sense plainly enough in this matter : for in that confession of faith , which was preserved in the church of neo-caesarea , he owns a perfect trinity in glory , eternity and power , without separation or diversity of nature , on which doctrine his form of doxology was grounded . which s. basil following , exceptions were taken against it , by some as varying from the form used in some other places . for the followers of aetius took advantage from the expression used in those doxologies , glory be to the father , by the son , and in the holy ghost , to infer a dissimilitude in the son and holy ghost to the father , and to make the son the instrument of the father , and the holy ghost only to relate to time and place . but s. basil takes a great deal of pains to shew the impertinency of these exceptions . they would fain have charged this doxology as an innovation on s. basil , because it attributed equal honour to father , son and holy ghost , which the aetians would not endure ; but they said , that the son was to be honoured only in subordination to the father , and the holy ghost as inferiour to both . but s. basil proves from scripture an equality of honour to be due to them : and particularly from the form of baptism , c. . wherein the son and holy ghost are joyned with the father , without any note of distinction . and what more proper token of a conjunction in the same dignity , than being put together in such a manner . especially considering these two things . . the extream jealousie of the jewish nation , as to joyning the creatures with god in any thing that related to divine honour . but as s. basil argues , if the son were a creature , then we must believe in the creator , and the creature together ; and by the same reason that one creature is joyned , the whole creation may be joyned with him ; but saith he , we are not to imagine the least disunion or separation between father , son and holy ghost ; nor that they are three distinct parts of one inseparable being , but that there is an indivisible conjunction of three in the same essence ; so that where one is , there is the other also . for where the holy ghost is , there is the son , and where the son is , there is the father . and so athanasius urges the argument from these words , that a creature could not be joyned with the creator in such a manner , as in the form of baptism ; and it might have been as well said , baptize in the name of the father , and any other creature . and for all that i see , our vnitarians would have liked such a form very well ; for they parallel it with those in scripture ; and they worshipped the lord , and the king ; and they feared the lord and samuel . but the iews understood the different occasion of such expressions too well , to have born such a conjunction of creatures with the creator in the most solemn act of initiation into a profession of religion . . the iews had a notion among them of three distinct subsistences in the deity sutable to these of father , son and holy ghost . this hath been shew'd by many as to the son , or the divine word ; and rittangel makes out the same as to the holy ghost . among the three subsistences in the mercavah ( which rittangel had proved from their most ancient writings ) those which are added to the first are wisdom and intelligence , and this last is by the old chaldee paraphrast rendred 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and he proves it to be applied to god in many places of the pentateuch , where such things are attributed to him , as belong to the holy ghost . and he particularly shews by many places , that the schecinah is not taken for the divine glory , but that is rendred by other words ( however the interpreters of the chaldee paraphrast have rendred it so ) but he produces ten places where the chaldee paraphrast uses it in another sense ; and he leaves , he saith , many more to the readers observation . if the iews did of old own three subsistences in the same divine essence , there was then great reason to joyn father , son and holy ghost in the solemn act of initiation : but if it be denied , that they did own any such thing ; they must deny their most ancient books , and the chaldee paraphrast , which they esteem next to the text , and rittangel saith , they believe it written by inspiration . that which i chiefly urge , is this , that if these things be not very ancient , they must be put in by the later iews , to gratifie the christians in the doctrine of the trinity ; which i do not believe any iew will assent to . and no one else can imagine this , when our vnitarians say , that the doctrine of the trinity is the chief offence which the iews take at the christian religion . how then can we suppose the iews should forge these books on purpose to put in such notions , as were most grateful to their enemies , and hateful to themselves ? morinus hath endeavoured to run down the credit of the most ancient books of the iews ; and among the rest the book iezirah , the most ancient cabbalistical book among the iews , which he learnedly proves was not written by abraham , ( as the iews think . ) i will not stand with morinus about this ; however the book cosri saith , it was made by abraham before god spake to him , and magnifies it to the king of cosar , as containing an admirable account of the first principles above the philosophers . buxtorf saith , that the book cosri hath been extant nine hundred years , and in the beginning of it , it is said , that the conference was four hundred years before , and therein the book iezirah is alledged as a book of antiquity : and there the three subsistences of the deity are represented by mind , word , and hand . so that this can be no late invention of cabbalistical iews . but our vnitarians utterly deny that the jews had any cabbala concerning the trinity . and they prove it , because the jews in origen , and justin martyr deny the messias to be god. they might as well have brought their testimony to prove jesus not to be the messias ; for the iews of those times , being hard pressed by the christians , found they could not otherwise avoid several places of the old testament . but this doth not hinder , but that they might have notions of three subsistences in their ancient books : which contained neither late invention , nor divine revelations ; but a traditional notion about the divine being , and the subsistences in it : and i can find no arguments against it , that deserve mentioning . for when they say the iewish cabbala was a pharisaical figment , &c. it needs no answer . but what do they say to the old paraphrases , whereon the main weight as to this matter lies ? all that i can find is , that they do not speak of distinct persons ; but they confess that philo speaks home , and therefore they make him a christian . but philo had the same notion with the paraphrasts ; and their best way will be to declare , that they look upon them all as christians ; and they might as well affirm it of onkelos , as they do of philo ; but i doubt the world will not take their word for either . but to proceed with the christian doxologies . n●●hing , saith s. basil , shall make me forsake the doctrine i received in my baptism , when i was first entred into the christian church ; and i advise all others to keep firm to that profession of the holy trinity , which they made in their baptism ; that is , of the indivisible vnion of father , son and holy ghost . and , as he saith afterwards , by the order of the words in baptism , it appears that as the son is to the father , so the holy ghost is to the son. for they are all put without any distinction or number , wh●ch he observes agrees only to a multitude . for by their properties they are one and one ; yet by the community of essence the two are but one : and he makes it his business to prove the holy ghost to be a proper object of adoration , as well as the father and son , and therefore there was no reason to find fault with the doxology used in that church : and that , firmilian , meletius and the eastern christians agreed with them in the use of it , and so did all the western churches from illyricum to the worlds end : and this , he saith , was by an immemorial custom of all churches , and of the greatest men in them . nay , more he saith , it had been continued in the churches , from the time the gospel had been receive'd among them . and nothing can be fuller than the authority of his testimony , if s. basil may be believed . to these i shall add the doxology of polycarp at this martyrdom , mentioned by eusebius , which is very full to our purpose ; i glorifie thee by our eternal high-priest iesus christ thy beloved son , by whom be glory to thee , with him in the holy ghost . what can we imagine polycarp meant by this , but to render the same glory to father , son and holy ghost ; but with such a difference as to the particles , which s. basil at large proves come to the same thing ? and to the same purpose , not only the church of smyrna , but pionius the martyr , who transcribed the acts , speaking of iesus christ , with whom be glory to god the father , and the holy ghost . these suffer'd martyrdom for christianity , and owned the same divine honour to the father , son and holy ghost . what could they mean , if they did not believe them to have the same divine nature ? can we suppose them guilty of such stupidity to lose their lives , for not giving divine honour to creatures , and at the same time to do it themselves ? so that , if the father , son and holy ghost were not then believed to be three persons and one god , the christian church was mightily deceived ; and the martyrs acted inconsistently with their own principles . which no good christian will dare to affirm . but some have adventured to say , that polycarp did not mean the same divine honour to father , son and holy ghost . but if he had so meant it , how could he have expressed it otherwise ? it was certainly a worship distinct from what he gave to creatures ; as appears by the church of smyrna's disowning any worship but of love and repect to their fellow creatures ; and own the giving adoration to the son of god ; with whom they joyn both father and holy ghost . which it is impossible to conceive , that in their circumstances , they should have done , unless they had believed the same divine honour to belong to them . s. basil's testimony makes it out of dispute , that the doxology to father , son and holy ghost , was universally receiv'd in the publick offices of the church , and that from the time of greatest antiquity : so that we have no need of the te●timonies from the apostolical constitutions ( as they are called ) to prove it . but i avoid all disputable authorities . and i shall only add that it appears from s. basil , that this doxology had been long used not only in publick offices , but in occasional ejaculations , as at the bringing in of light in the evening , the people , he saith , were wont to say , glory be to the father , and to the son , and to the holy ghost , &c. this , he saith , had been an ancient custom among the people , and none can tell who brought it in . but prudentius shews , that it was continued to his time ; as appea●s by his hymn on that occasion , which concludes with this doxology , and s. hilary ends his hymn written to his daughter , in the same manner . . i come therefore to the last proof , which i shall produce of the sense of the christian church , which is , from the testimony of those who wrote in defence of our religion against infidels . in which i shall be the shorter , since the particular testimonies of the fathers , have been so fully produced , and defended by others , especially by dr. bull. iustin martyr in his apology for the christians , gives an account of the form of baptism , as it was administred among christians , which he saith , was in the name of god the father of all , and of our saviour iesus christ , and of the holy ghost . and that he spake of them as of distinct persons , as appears by his words afterwards . they who take the son to be the father , neither know the father nor the son , who being the word and first begotten is god. and when he speaks of the eucharist , he saith , that it is offer'd to the father of all , by the name of the son , and the holy ghost : and of other solemn acts of devotion , he saith , that in all of them they praise god the father of all , by his son iesus christ , and the holy ghost . and in other places , he mentions the worship they give to father , son and holy ghost . indeed he mentions a difference of order between them ; but makes no difference as to the worship given to them . and all this in no long apology for the christian faith. what can be the meaning of this if he did not take it for granted , that the christian church embraced the doctrine of the trinity in baptism ? iustin martyr was no such weak man to go about to expose the christian religion instead of defending it ; and he must have done so , if he did not believe this not only to be a true , but a necessary part of the christian faith for , why did he at all mention such a mysterious and dark point ? why did he not conceal it , ( as some would have done ) and only represent to the emperours , the fair and plausible part of christianity ? no , he was a man of great sincerity , and a through christian himself ; and therefore thought he could not honestly conceal so fundamental a point of the christian faith , and which related to their being entred into the christian church . for if the profession of this faith had not been look'd on as a necessary condition of being a member of the church of christ ; it is hard to imagine , that iustin martyr should so much insist upon it , not only here , but in his other treatises : of which an account hath been given by others . athenagoras had been a philosopher , as well as iustin martyr , before he professed himself a christian ; and therefore , must be supposed to understand his religion before he embraced it . and in his defence he asserts , that the christians do believe in father , son and holy ghost ; in god the father , god the son , and the holy ghost . and he mentions both the vnity and order which is among them . which can signifie nothing unless they be owned to be distinct persons in the same divine nature . and in the next page , he looks on it , as thing which all christians aspire after in another life , that they shall then know the vnion of the father , and the communication of the father to the son , what the holy ghost is , and what the vnion and distinction there is between the holy ghost , the son and the father . no man who had ever had the name of a philosopher would have said such things , unless he had believed the doctrine of the trinity a● we do , i. e. that there are three distinct persons in the same divine nature , but that the manner of the union , and distinction between them , is above our reach and comprehension . but our vnitarians have an answer ready for these men , viz. that they came out of plato 's school , with the tincture of his three principles ; and they sadly complain , that platonism had very early corrupted the christian faith as to these matters . in answer to which exception , i have only one postulatum to make ; which is , that these were honest men , and knew their own minds be●t , and i shall make it appear , that none can more positively declare , than they do , that they did not take up these notions from plato , but from the holy scriptures ; iustin martyr saith he took the foundation of his faith from thence , and that he could find no certainty as to god and religion any where else : that he thinks , plato took his three principles from moses ; and in his dialogue with trypho , he at large proves the eternity of the son of god from the scriptures ; and said , he would use no other arguments , for he pretended to no skill but in the scriptures , which god had enabled him to understand . athenagoras declares , that where the philosophers agreed with them , their faith did not depend on them , but on the testimony of the prophets , who were inspired by the holy ghost . to the same purpose speaks theophilus bishop of antioch , who asserts the coeternity of the son with the father , from the beginning of s. john's gospel ; and saith , their faith is built on the scriptures . clemens alexandrinus owns not only , the essential attributes of god to belong to the son ; but that there is one father of all , and one word over all , and one holy ghost who is every where . and he thinks , plato borrowed his three principles from moses ; that his second was the son , and his third the holy spirit . even origen hims●l● highly commends moses above plato , in his most undoubted writings , and saith , that numen●us went beyond plato , and that he borrowed out of the scriptures ; and so he saith , plato did in other places ; but he adds , that the doctrines were better deliver'd in scripture , than in his artificial dialogues . can any one that hath the least reverence for writers of such authority and z●al for the christian doctrine , imagine that they wilfully corrupted it in one of the chief articles of it ; and brought in new speculations against the sense of those books , which at the same time , they professed to be the only rule of their faith ? even where they speak most favourably of the platonick trinity , they suppose it to be borrowed from moses . and therefore numenius said , that moses and plato did not differ about the first principles ; and theodoret mentions numenius as one of those , who said , plato understood the hebrew doctrine in egypt ; and during his thirteen years ●ay there , it is hardly possible to suppose , he should be ignorant of the hebrew doctrine , about the first principles , which he was so inquisitive after , especially among nations , who pretended to antiquity . and the platonick notion of the divine essence inlarging it self to three hypostases , is considerable on these accounts : . that it is deliver'd with so much assurance by the opposers of christianity ; such as plotinus , porphyrius , proclus and others were known to be , and they speak with no manner of doubt concerning it ; as may be seen in the passage of porphyrie preserved by s. cyril and others . . that they took it up from no revelation ; but as a notion in it self agreeable enough ; as appears by the passages in plato and others concerning it . they never suspected it to be liable to the charge of non-sense , and contradictions , as our modern vnitarians charge the trinity with ; although their notion as represented by porphyrie be as liable to it . how came these men of wit and sense , to hit upon , and be so fond of such absurd principles which lead to the belief of mysterious non-sense , and impossibilities ; if these men may be trusted ? . that the nations most renowned for antiquity and deep speculations , did light upon the same doctrine , about a trinity of hypostases in the divine essence . to prove this i shall not refer to the trismegistick books , or the chaldee oracles , or any doubtful authorities ; but plutarch asserts the three hypostases to have been receiv●d among the persians , and porphyry , and iamblicus , say the same of the egyptians . . that this hypostasis did maintain its reputation so long in the world. for we find it continued to the time of macrobius ; who ment●ons it as a reasonable notion , viz. of one supreme being , father of all , and a mind proceeding from it , and soul from mind . some have thought that the platonists made two created beings , to be two of the divine hypostases ; but this is contrary to what plotinus and porphyry affirm concerning it , and it is hard to give an account , how they should then be essentially different from creatures , and be hypostases in the divine essence . but this is no part of my business , being concerned no farther , than to clear the sense of the christian church , as to the form of baptism in the name of the father , son and holy ghost ; which according to the sense of the ante-nicene fathers , i have proved , doth manifest the doctrine of the trinity , to have been generally receiv'd in the christian church . . let us now see what our vnitarians object again●t the proof of the trinity from these words . . they say , that there is a note of distinction and superiority . for christ owns ▪ that his power was given to him by the father . there is no question , but that the person who suffer'd on the cross , had power given to him , after his resurrection ; but the true question is , whether his sonship were then given to him . he was then declared to be the son of god with power , and had a name or authority given him above every name ; being exalted to be a prince and a saviour , to give repentance , and remission of sins : in order to which he now appointed his apostles to teach all nations ; baptizing them in the name of the father , the son and the holy ghost . he doth not say in the name of iesus , who suffer'd on the cross ; nor in the name of iesus the christ now exalted ; but in the name of father , son and holy ghost : and although there were a double gift with respect to the son and holy ghost ; the one , as to his royal authority over the church ; the other , as to his extraordinary effusion on the apostles , yet neither of these are so much as intimated ; but the office of baptism is required to be performed in the name of these three as distinct and yet equal ; without any relation to any gift , either as to the son or holy ghost . but if the ancient iews were in the right , as we think they were , then we have a plain account , how these came to be thus mention'd in the form of baptism , viz. that these three distinct subsistences in the divine essence , were not now to be kept up as a secret mystery from the world ; but that the christian church was to be formed upon the belief of it . . they bring several places of scripture , where god and his creatures are joyned , without any note of distinction or superiority ; as , the people feared the lord , and samuel , sam. . . they worshipped the lord , and the king , chron. . . i charge thee before god the lord iesus christ , and his elect angels , tim. . . the spirit and the bride say come , revel . . . but can any man of sense imagine , these places contain a parallel with a form of words , wherein men are entred into the profession of a new religion , and by which they were to be distinguished from all other religions ? in the former places , the circumstances were so notorious as to god , and the civil magistrate , that it shews no more than that the same external acts may be used to both , but with such a different intention as all men understood it . what if s. paul name the elect angels in a solemn obtestation to timothy , together with god , and the lord iesus christ ? what can this prove , but that we may call god and his creatures to be witnesses together of the same thing ? and so heaven and earth are called to bear witness against obstinate sinners : may men therefore be baptized in the name of god and his creatures ? the spirit and bride may say come without any incongruity ; but it would have been strange indeed , if they had said , come be baptized in the name of the spirit and the bride . so that these instances are very remote from the purpose . but they say farther , that the ancients of the first four hundred years do not insist on this place , to prove the divinity or personality of the son or spirit . as to the first three hundred years , i have given an account already ; and as to the fourth century , i could not have thought , that they would have mention'd it : since there is scarce a father of the church in that time , who had occasion to do it , but makes use of the argument from this place to prove the divinity and personality of the son and spirit . athanasius saith , that christ founded his church on the doctrine of the trinity contained in these words ; and if the holy ghost had been of a different nature , from the father and son , he would never have been joyned with them in a form of baptism , no more than an angel , or any other creature . for the trinity must be eternal and indivisible , which it could not be , if any created being were in it , and therefore he disputes against the arian baptism , although performed with the same words , because they joyned god and a creature together in baptism . to the same purpose argue didymus , gregory nazianzen , s. basil and others , within the compass of four hundred years , whose testimonies are produced by petavius ; to whom i refer the reader , if he hath a mind to be satisfied in so clear a point , that i cannot but think our vnitarians never intended to take in the fathers after the council of nice , who are so expressly against them ; and therefore i pass it over as a slip . . they object , that the form of baptism implies no more , than being admitted into that religion which proceeds from god the father , and deliver'd by his son , and confirmed by the testimony of the holy ghost . so much we grant is implied , but the question still remains , whether the son and holy ghost are here to be consider'd only in order to their operations , or whether the persons of the son and holy ghost , from whom those effects came , are not here chiefly intended ? for if no more had been meant , but these effects , then the right form of admission had not been , into the name of father , son and holy ghost ; but in the name of the father alone , as revealing himself by his son , and confirming it by the miraculous works of the holy ghost . for these are only subservient acts to the design of god the father , as the only subsisting person . . they tell us , that it is in vain , not to say ridiculously pretended , that a person or thing is god , because we are baptized into it ; for some were baptized into moses , and others into john's baptism , and so moses and john baptist would be gods ; and to be baptized into a person or persons , and in the name of such a person is the same thing . grant this ; yet there is a great difference between being baptized in the name of a minister of baptism , and of the author of a religion , into which they are baptized . the israelites were baptized unto moses ; but how ? the syriac and arabic versions render it per mosen ; and so s. augustin reads it . and this seems to be the most natural sense of the word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being put for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as it is , act. . . compared with gal. . . and the force of the apostle's argument , doth not lie in the parallel between being baptized into moses , and into christ ; but in the privileges they had under the ministery of moses with those which christians enjoyed . the other place implies no more , than being enter'd into that profession , which john baptized his disciples into . but doth any one imagine , that because iohn baptist did enter his disciples by baptism , therefore they must believe him to be god ? i know none that lay the force of the argument upon any thing parallel to those places . but it depends upon laying the circumstances together . here was a new religion to be taught mankind , and they were to be entred into it , not by a bare verbal profession , but by a solemn rite of baptism ; and this baptism is declar'd to be in the name of the father , son and holy ghost : which cannot be understood of their ministery , and therefore must relate to that faith , which they were baptized into , which was concerning the father , son and holy ghost . and so the christian church understood it , from the beginning , as i have proved in the foregoing discourse . and from hence came the instruction of catechumens , who were to be baptized about the trinity ; and the first creeds which related only to them , as i have already observed . and so much our vnitarians grant in one of their latest pamphlets , that a creed was an institution , or instruction what we are to believe in the main , and fundamental articles , especially concerning the persons of father , son and holy ghost . but they contend , that the creed which bears the name of the apostles , was the original creed framed by the apostles themselves , because they suppose this creed doth not assert the son and holy ghost , to be eternal and divine persons , and therefore they conclude , that the makers of this creed , either did not know , that any other person but the father is god , or almighty , or maker of heaven and earth , or they have negligently , or wickedly concealed it . this is a matter so necessary to be clear'd , that i shall examine these two things before i put an end to this discourse . . what proofs they bring that this creed was framed by the apostles . . what evidence they produce , that this creed excludes the divinity of the son and holy ghost . . as to the proofs they bring , that this creed was framed by the apostles . we believe the creed to be apostolical in the true sense of it ; but that it was so in that frame of words , and enumeration of articles , as it is now receiv'd , hath been called in question by some criticks of great judgment and learning , whom i have already mentioned . erasmus saith , he doth not question the articles being apostolical ; but whether the apostles put it thus into writing . and his chief argument is from the variety of the ancient creeds ; of which no account can be given so probable , as that they were added occasionally in opposition to a growing heresie . as for instance , the word impassible was inserted with respect to the father in the ancient eastern creed , against the doctrine of sabellius ; but it was not in the old western creed . and he argues , that the apostolical creed ended with the holy ghost ; because the nicene creed did so . and vossius thinks the other articles which are in cyril , were added after the nicene council ; which would not have omitted them , if they had been in the former creed . and when there were so many creeds made afterwards , it is observable , that they do all end with the article of the holy ghost ; which they would never have done , in so jealous a time about creeds , if they had left out any articles of what was then receiv'd for the apostolical creed . the first creed after the nicene , which made great noise in the world , was that framed at antioch ; and that creed not only ends with the article of the holy ghost ; but mentions the form of baptism ; and our saviours commanding his apostles to baptize in the name of the father , son and holy ghost ; as the foundation of the creed . for it hereby appears , that the father is true father , and the son true son , and the holy ghost true holy ghost ; not bare names , but such as import three distinct subsistences . for hilary observes , that this council chiefly intended to overthrow sabellianism , and therefore asserted tres subsistentium personas , as hilary interprets their meaning , and so doth epiphanius ; which was to remove the suspition , that they asserted only triplicis vocabuli vnionem ; as hilary speaks . the next creed is of the eastern bishops at sardica , and that ends wi●h the holy ghost , and so do both the creeds at sirmium ▪ and the latter calls the article of the trinity , the close of our faith ; which is always to be kept according to our saviour's command , go teach all nations , baptizing them in the name of the father , son and holy ghost . so that in all these creeds , about which there was so much heat in the christian church , there was not the least objection , that any articles of the apostolical creed were omitted . it is no argument , that there was then no contest about these articles ; for they were bound to give in an entire creed ; and so the council of antioch declares , that they would publish the confession of the faith of the church : and how could this be , if they left out such articles which had been always receiv●d from the apostles times ? but certainly our vnitarians would not attack such men , as erasmus , and vossius in a matter relating to antiquity , if they had not some good arguments on their side . their first business , is to shew , that some of vossius his arguments are not conclusive ; such as they are , i leave them to any one that will compare them with the answers . but there are two things they lay weight upon . . that the whole christian church east and west , could not have agreed in the same creed , as to number and order of articles , and manner of expression , if this creed had not come from the same persons , from whom they receiv'd the gospel and the scriptures ; namely , from the apostles and preachers of christianity . . that it was receiv'd by a constant tradition to have been the apostles ; not a bare oral tradition , but the tradition of the ancient commentators upon it . now these i confess to be as good arguments , as the matters will bear ; and i will no longer contest this point with them , provided , that we be allowed to make use of the same arguments ; as to the second point ; wherein they undertake to prove , that the apostles creed doth exclude the divinity of the son and holy ghost . what is now become of the general consent of the christian church , east and west ? and of the commentators upon this creed ? if the argument hold good in one case , i hope it will be allowed to do so in the other also . and what greater testimony can be given of such a consent of the christian church ; than that those who opposed it , have been condemned by it , and that the church hath expressed her sense of it in publick , and private acts of devotion , and divine worship , and have defended it as a necessary part of the christian faith , against the assaults of infidels and hereticks ? so that although the apostles creed do not in express words declare , the divinity of the three persons in the vnity of the divine essence ; yet taking the sense of those articles , as the christian church understood them from the apostles times , then we have as full , and clear evidence of this doctrine , as we have that we receiv'd the scriptures from them . chap. x. the objections against the trinity in point of reason answer'd . having in the foregoing chapters endeavour'd to clear the doctrine of the trinity from the charge of contradictions , and to prove it agreeable to the sense of scripture , and the primitive church ; i now come in the last place to examine the remaining objections , in point of reason ; and those are , . that this doctrine is said to be a mystery , and therefore above reason , and we cannot in reason be obliged to believe any such thing . . that if we allow any such mysteries of faith as are above reason , there can be no stop put to any absurd doctrines , but they may be receiv'd on the same grounds . as to this doctrine being said to be above reason , and therefore not to be believ'd ; we must consider two things ; . what we understand by reason ; . what ground in reason there is , to reject any doctrine above it , when it is proposed as a matter of faith. . what we understand by reason . i do not find that our vnitarians have explained the nature and bounds of reason in such manner , as those ought to have done , who make it the rule and standard of what they are to believe . but sometimes they speak of clear and distinct perceptions , sometimes of natural ideas , sometimes of congenit notions , &c. but a late author hath endeavour'd to make amends for this , and takes upon him to make this matter clear ; and to be sure to do so , he begins with telling us , that reason is not the soul abstractedly consider'd ; ( no doubt of it ) but the soul acting in a peculiar manner is reason . ( and this is a ver● peculiar way of explaining it ) but farther we are told , it is not the order or report ( respect i suppose ) which is naturally between all things . ( but that implies a reason in things . ) but the thoughts which the soul forms of things according to it , may properly claim that title , i. e. such thoughts which are agreeable to the reason of things are reasonable thoughts . this is clear and distinct . and i perfectly agree with him , that our own inclinations , or the bare authority of others is not reason . but what is it ? every one experiences in himself a power , or faculty of form●ng various ideas , or perceptions of things ; of affirming , or denying according as he sees them to agree or disagree , and this is reason in general it is not the bare receiving ideas into the mind , that is strictly reason , ( who ever thought it was ? ) but the perception of the agreement , or disagreement of our ideas in a greater of lesser number ; wherein soever this agreement or disagreement may consist . if the perception be immediate without the assistance of any other idea , this is not call'd reason , but self-evidence : but when the mind makes use of intermediate ideas to discover that agreement or disagreement , this method of knowledge is properly call'd reason or demonstration . and so reason is defined to be that faculty of the soul , which discovers the certainty of any thing dubious , or obscure by comparing it with something evidently known . this is offer'd to the world , as an account of reason ; but to shew how very loose , and unsatisfactory it is , i desire it may be consider'd , that this doctrine supposes , that we must have clear and distinct ideas of whatever we pretend to any certainty of in our minds , and that the only way to attain this certainty , is by comparing these ideas together . which excludes all certainty of faith or reason , where we cannot have such clear and distinct ideas . but if there are many things of which we may be certain , and yet can have no clear and distinct ideas of them ; if those ideas we have , are too imperfect and obscure to form our judgments by ; if we cannot find out sufficient intermediate ideas ; then this cannot be the means of certainty , or the foundation of reason . but i shall keep to our present subject ; and our certainty of it in point of reason , depends upon our knowledge of the the nature of substance , and person and the distinction between them : but if we can have no such clear ideas in our minds concerning these things , as are required from sensation , or reflection ; then , either we have no use of reason about them , or it is in sufficient to pass any judgment concerning them . . i begin with the notion of substance . and i have great reason to begin with it ; for , according to this man's principles there can be no certainty of reason at all about it . and so our new way of reason is advanced to very good purpose . for we may talk and dispute about substance , as long as we please , but , if his principles of reason be true , we can come to no certainty ; since we can have no clear idea in our minds concerning it , as will appear from his own words ; and the method he proceeds in . ( . ) he saith , that the mind receives in ideas two ways . . by intermission of the senses , as colours , figures , sounds , smells , &c. . by the souls considering its own operations about what it thus gets from without , as knowing , doubting , affirming , denying , &c. ( . ) that these simple and distinct ideas , thus laid up in the great repository of the vnderstanding , are the sole matter and foundation of all our reasoning . then it follows , that we can have no foundation of reasoning , where there can can be no such ideas from sensation , or reflection . now this is the case of substance ; it is not intromitted by the senses , nor depends upon the operations of the mind ; and so it cannot be within the compass of our reason . and therefore i do not wonder , that the gentlemen of this new way of reasoning , have almost discarded substance out of the reasonable part of the world. for they not only tell us . that we can have no idea of it by sensation or reflection ; but that nothing is signified by it , only an uncertain supposition of we know not what . and therefore it is parallel'd , more than once , with the indian philosophers , he knew not what ; which supported the torto●se , that supported the elephant , that supported the earth ; so substance was found out only to support accidents . and , that when we talk of substances we talk like children , who being ask'd a question , about somewhat which they know not , readily give this satisfactory answer , that it is something . if this be the truth of the case , we must still talk like children , and i know not how it can be remedied . for , if we cannot come at a rational idea of substance , we can have no principle of certainty to go upon in this debate . i do not say , that we can have a clear idea of substance , either by sensation or reflection ; but from hence i argue , that this is a very insufficient distribution of the ideas necessary to reason . for besides these , there must be some general ideas , which the mind doth form , not by meer comparing those ideas it has got from sense or reflection ; but by forming distinct general notions , of things from particular ideas . and among these general notions , or rational ideas , substance is one of the first ; because we find that we can have no true conceptions of any modes or accidents ( no matter which ) but we must conceive a substratum , or subject wherein they are . since it is a repugnancy to our first conceptions of things , that modes or accidents should subsist by themselves , and therefore the rational idea of substance is one of the first , and most natural ideas in our minds . but we are still told , that our vnderstanding can have no other ideas , but either from sensation or reflection . and that , herein chiefly lies the excellency of mankind , above brutes , that these cannot abstract , and inlarge their ideas as men do . but how comes the general idea of substance , to be framed in our minds ? is this by abstracting and inlarging simple ideas ? no , but it is by a complication of many simple ideas together : because not imagining how these simple ideas can subsist by themselves , we accustom our selves to suppose some substratum wherein they do subsist , and from which they do result , which therefore we call substance . and is this all indeed , that is to be said for the being of substance , that we accustom our selves to suppose a substratum ? is that custom grounded upon true reason or not ? if not , then accidents or modes , must subsist of themselves , and these simple ideas need no tortoise to support them : for figures and colours , &c. would do well enough of themselves , but for some fancies men have accustomed themselves to . if it be grounded on plain and evident reason , then we must allow an idea of substance , which comes not in by sensation or reflection ; and so we may be certain of some things which we have not by those ideas . the idea of substance , we are told again , is nothing but the supposed , but unknown support of those qualities we find existing , which we imagine cannot subsist , sine re substante , which according to the true import of the word , is in plain english , standing under , or upholding . but very little weight is to be laid upon a bare grammatical etymology , when the word is used in another sense by the best authors , such as cicero and quintilian , who take substance for the same with essence ; as valla hath proved ; and so the greek word imports ; but boethius in translating aristotle's predicaments , rather chose the word substance as more proper , to ●xpress a compound being , and reserved essence , for what was more simple and immaterial . and in this sense , substance was not applied to god but only essence , as s. augustine observes , but afterwards , the names of substance , and essence were promiscuously used , with respect to god and his creatures . and do imply , that which makes the real being , as distinguished from modes and properties . and so the substance , and essence of a man are the same ; not being taken for the individual substance , which cannot be understood without particular modes and properties ; but the general substance , or nature of man abstractly from all the circum●●ances of persons . and i desire to know , whether according to true reason , that be not a clear idea of a man ; not of peter , iames or iohn , but of a man as such . this is not a meer universal name , or mark , or sign ; but there is as clear and distinct a conception of this in our minds , as we can have from any such simple ideas , as are convey'd by our senses . i do not deny that the distinction of particular substances , is by the several modes and properties of them , ( which they may call a complication of simple ideas if they please ) but i do assert , that the general idea , which relates to the essence without these is so just , and true an idea , that without it the complication of simple ideas , will never give us a right notion of it . i must do that right to the ingenious author of the essay of humane vnderstanding ( from whence these notions are borrowed to serve other purposes than he intended them ) that he makes the case of spiritual , and corporeal substances to be alike , as to their idea's , and that we have as clear a notion of a spirit , as we have of a body , the one being supposed to be the substratum to those simple ideas we have from without , and the other of those operations we find within our selves . and that it is as rational to affirm , there is no body , because we cannot know its essence , as 't is called , or have no idea of the substance of matter ; as to say , there is no spirit , because we know not its essence , or have no idea of a spiritual substance . from hence it follows , that we may be certain , that there are both spiritual and bodily substances , although we can have no clear and distinct ideas of them . but , if our reason depend upon our clear and distinct idea's ; how is this possible ? we cannot reason without clear ideas , and yet we may be certain without them : can we be certain without reason ? or doth our reason give us true notions of things , without these idea's ? if it be so , this new hypothesis about reason must appear to be very unreasonable . let us suppose this principle to be true , that the simple ideas by sensation or reflection , are the sole matter and foundation of all our reasoning : i ask then , how we come to be certain , that there are spiritual substances in the world , since we can have no clear and distinct ideas concerning them ? can we be certain without any foundation of reason ? this is a new sort of certainty , for which we do not envy these pretenders to reason . but methinks , they should not at the same time assert the absolute necessity of these ideas to our knowledge , and declare that we may have certain knowledge without them . if there be any other method , they overthrow their own principle ; if there be none , how come they to any certainty , that there are both bodily and spiritual substances ? as to these latter ( which is my business ) i must enquire farther , how they come to know that there are such . the answer is by self-reflection , on those powers we find in our selves , which cannot come from a mere bodily substance . i allow he reason to be very good , but the question i ask is , whether this argument be from the clear and distinct idea or not ? we have ideas in our selves of the several operations of our minds of knowing , willing , considering , &c. which cannot come from a bodily substance . very true ; but is all this contained in the simple idea of these operations ? how can that be , when the same persons say , that notwithstanding their ideas it is possible for matter to think . for it is said , that we have the ideas of matter and thinking , but possibly shall never be able to know , whether any mere material being thinks or not ; it being impossible for us by the contemplation of our own ideas , without revelation to discover whether omnipotency hath not given to some systems of matter , fitly disposed , a power to perceive or think . if this be true , then for all that we can know by our ideas of matter and thinking ; matter may have a power of thinking : and if this hold , then it is impossible to prove a spiritual substance in us , from the idea of thinking : for how can we be assured by our ideas , that god hath not given such a power of thinking , to matter so disposed as our bodies are ? especially since it is said , that in respect of our notions , it is not much more remote from our comprehension to conceive that god can , if he pleases , super-add to our idea of matter a faculty of thinking , than that he should super-add to it another substance , with a faculty of thinking . whoever asserts this , can never prove a spiritual substance in us , from a faculty of thinking ; because he cannot know from the idea of matter and thinking , that matter so disposed cannot think . and he cannot be certain that god hath not framed the matter of our bodies , so as to be capable of it . it is said indeed elsewhere , that it is repugnant to the idea of sensless matter , that it should put into it self sense , perception and knowledge : but this doth not reach the present case ; which is not what matter can do of it self , but what matter prepared by an omnipotent hand can do . and what certainty can we have that he hath not done it ? we can have none from the ideas ; for those are given up in this case ; and consequently , we can have no certainty upon these principles , whether we have any spiritual substance within us or not . but we are told , that from the operations of our minds , we are able to frame the complex idea of a spirit . how can that be , when we cannot from those ideas be assured , but that those operations may come from a material substance . if we frame an idea on such grounds , it is at most but a possible idea ; for it may be otherwise ; and we can have no assurance from our ideas , that it is not : so that the most men may come to in this way of idea's is , that it is possible it may be so , and it is possible it may not ; but that it is impossible for us from our ideas , to determine either way . and is not this an admirable way to bring us to a certainty of reason ? i am very glad to find the idea of a spiritual substance made as consistent , and intelligible , as that of a corporeal ; for as the one consists of a cohesion of solid parts , and the power of communicating motion by impulse , so the other consists in a power of thinking , and willing , and moving the body ; and that the cohesion of solid parts , is as hard to be conceived as thinking ; and we are as much in the dark about the power of communicating motion by impulse , as in the power of exciting motion by thought . we have by daily experience clear evidence of motion produced , both by impulse and by thought ; but the manner how , hardly comes within our comprehension ; we are equally at a loss in both . from whence if follows , that we may be certain of the being of a spiritual substance , although we have no clear and distinct idea of it , nor are able to comprehend the manner of its operations : and therefore it is a vain thing in any to pretend , that all our reason and certainty is founded on clear and distinct ideas ; and that they have reason to reject any doctrine which relates to spiritual substances , because they cannot comprehend the manner of it . for the same thing is confessed by the most inquisitive men , about the manner of operation , both in material , and immaterial substances . it is affirmed , that the very notion of body , implies , something very hard , if not impossible to be explained , or understood by us ; and that the natural consequence of it , viz. divisibility ; involves us in difficulties impossible to be explicated , or made consistent . that we have but some few superficial ideas of things ; that we are destitute of faculties , to attain to the true nature of them ; and that when we do that , we fall presently into darkness and obscurity ; and can discover nothing farther , but our own blindness and ignorance . these are very fair and ingenuous confessions of the shortness of humane understanding , with respect to the nature and manner of such things , which we are most certain of the being of , by constant and undoubted experience . i appeal now to the reason of mankind , whether it can be any reasonable foundation for rejecting a doctrine proposed to us , as of divine revelation , because we cannot comprehend the manner of it ; especially , when it relates to the divine essence . for as the same author observes , our idea of god is framed from the complex ideas of those perfections we find in our selves , but inlarging them so , as to make them suitable to an infinite being , as knowledge , power , duration , &c. and the degrees or extent of these which we ascribe to the soveraign being , are all boundless and infinite . for it is infinity , which joyned to our ideas of existence , power , knowledge , &c. makes that complex idea , whereby we represent to our selves the best we can , the supreme being . now , when our knowledge of gross material substances is so dark ; when the notion of spiritual substances is above all ideas of sensation ; when the higher any substance is , the more remote from our knowledge ; but especially when the very idea of a supreme being implies its being infinite , and incomprehensible , i know not whether it argues more stupidity , or arrogance to expose a doctrine relating to the divine essence , because they cannot comprehend the manner of it . but of this more afterwards . i am yet upon the certainty of our reason , from clear and distinct ideas : and if we can attain to certainty without them , and where it is confessed we cannot have them ; as about substances : then these cannot be the sole matter and foundation of our reasoning , which is so peremptorily asserted by this late author . but i go yet farther : and as i have already shew'd , we can have no certainty of an immaterial substance within us , from these simple ideas ; so i shall now shew , that there can be no sufficient evidence , brought from them by their own confession , concerning the existence of the most spiritual and infinite substance , even god himself . we are told , that the evidence of it is equal to mathematical certainty ; and very good arguments are brought to prove it , in a chapter on purpose : but that which i take notice of is , that the argument from the clear and distinct idea of god is passed over . how can this be consistent with deducing our certainty of knowledge from clear and simple ideas ? i do not go about to justifie those , who lay the whole stress upon that foundation ; which i grant to be too weak to support so important a truth ; and that those are very much to blame , who go about to invalidate other arguments for the sake of that ; but i doubt all this talk about clear and distinct ideas , being made the foundation of certainty , came originally from those discourses , or meditations , which are aimed at . the author of them was an ingenious , thinking man , and he endeavour'd to lay the foundations of certainty , as well as he could . the first thing he found any certainty in , was his own existence ; which he founded upon the perception of the acts of his mind , which some call an internal , infallible perception that we are . from hence he proceeded , to enquire , how he came by this certainty , and he resolved it into this , that he had a clear and distinct perception of it ; and from hence he formed his general rule , that what he had a clear and distinct perception of was true . which in reason ought to go no farther , than where there is the like degree of evidence : for the certainty here , was not grounded on the clearness of the perception , but on the plainness of the evidence which is of that nature , that the very doubting of it proves it ; since it is impossible , that any thing should doubt or question its own being , that had it not . so that here it is not the clearness of the idea , but an immediate act of perception , which is the true ground of certainty . and this cannot extend to things without our selves ; of which we can have no other perception , than what is caused by the impressions of outward objects . but whether we are to judge according to those impressions , doth not depend on the ideas themselves , but upon the exercise of our judgment and reason about them , which put the difference between true and false , and adequate , and inadequate ideas . so that our certainty is not from the ideas themselves , but from the evidence of reason , that those ideas are true , and just , and consequently that we may build our certainty upon them . but the idea of an infinite being hath this peculiar to it , that necessary existence is implied in it . this is a clear and distinct idea , and yet it is denied , that this doth prove the existence of god. how then can the grounds of our certainty arise from clear and distinct ideas ; when in one of the clearest ideas of our minds we can come to no certainty by it ? i do not say , that it is denied to prove it ; but this is said , that it is a doubtful thing from the different make of mens tempers and application of their thoughts . what can this mean , unless it be to let us know , that even clear and distinct ideas , may lose their effect by the difference of mens tempers and studies ; so that besides ideas , in order to a right judgment , a due temper and application of the mind is required . and wherein is this different , from what all men of understanding have said ? why then should these clear and simple ideas be made the sole foundation of reason ? one would think by this , that these ideas would presently satisfie mens minds , if they attended to them . but even this will not do , as to the idea of an infinite being . it is not enough to say , they will not examine how far it will hold : for they ought either to say , that it doth hold , or give up this ground of certainty from clear and distinct ideas . but instead of the proper argument from ideas , we are told , that from the consideration of our selves , and what we find in our own constitutions , our reason leads us to the knowledge of this certain and evident truth ; that there is an eternal , most powerful , and most knowing being . all which i readily yield ; but we see plainly , the certainty is not placed in the idea , but in good and sound reason from the consideration of our selves and our constitutions . what! in the idea of our selves ? no certainly ; for let our idea be taken which way we please , by sensation or reflection , yet it is not the idea that makes us certain , but the argument from that which we perceive in , and about our selves . but we find in our selves perception and knowledge . it 's very true ; but how doth this prove that there is a god ? it is from the clear and distinct idea of it . no , but from this argument : that either there must have been a knowing being from eternity , or an unknowing ; for something must have been from eternity : but if an unknowing , then it was impossible there ever should have been any knowledge ; it being as impossible , that a thing without knowledge should produce it , as that a triangle should make it self three angles bigger than two right ones . allowing the argument to be good , yet it is not taken from the idea , but from principles of true reason ; as that no man can doubt his own perception ; that every thing must have a cause ; that this cause must either have knowledge or not : if it have , the point is gained ; if it hath not , nothing can produce nothing ; and consequently , a not knowing being cannot produce a knowing . again , if we suppose nothing to be first , matter can never begin to be ; if bare matter without motion eternal , motion can never begin to be ; if matter and motion be supposed eternal , thought can never begin to be . for , if matter could produce thought , then thought must be in the power of matter ; and if it be in matter as such , it must be the inseparable property of all matter ; which is contrary to the sense and experience of mankind . if only some parts of matter have a power of thinking , how comes so great a difference in the properties of the same matter ? what disposition of matter is required to thinking ? and from whence comes it ? of which no account can be given in reason . this is the substance of the argument used , to prove an infinite spiritual being , which i am far from weakning the force of ; but that which i design , is to shew ▪ that the certainty of it is not placed upon any clear and distinct ideas , but upon the force of reason distinct from it , which was the thing i intended to prove . . the next thing necessary to be clear'd in this dispute is , the distinction between nature and person , and of this we can have no clear and distinct idea from sensation or reflection . and yet all our notions of the doctrine of the trinity , depend upon the right understanding of it . for we must talk unintelligibly about this point , unless we have clear and distinct apprehensions concerning nature and person , and the grounds of identity and distinction . but that these come not into our minds by these simple ideas of sensation and reflection , i shall now make it appear ; . as to nature , that is sometimes taken for the essential property of a thing , as when we say , that such a thing is of a different nature from another , we mean no more than that it is differenced by such properties as come to our knowledge . sometimes nature is taken for the thing it self in which those properties are ; and so aristotle took nature for a corporeal substance , which had the principles of motion in it self : but nature and substance are of an equal extent ; and so that which is the subject of powers , and properties is the nature , whether it be meant of bodily or spiritual substances . i grant , that by sensation and reflection we come to know the powers and properties of things ; but our reason is satisfied , that there must be something beyond these ; because it is impossible that they should subsist by themselves . so that the nature of things propery belongs to our reason , and not to meer ideas . but we must yet proceed farther . for , nature may be consider'd two ways . . as it is in distinct individuals , as the nature of a man is equally in peter , iames , and iohn ; and this is the common nature with a particular subsistence proper to each of them . for the nature of man , as in peter , is distinct from that same nature , as it is in iames and iohn ; otherwise , they would be but one person , as well as have the same nature . and this distinction of persons in them is discerned both by our senses , as to their different accidents ; and by our reason , because they have a separate existence ; not coming into it at once and in the same manner . . nature may be consider'd abstractly , without respect to individual persons , and then it makes an entire notion of it self . for however , the same nature may be in different individuals , yet the nature in it self remains one and the same : which appears from this evident reason ; that otherwise every individual must make a different kind . let us now see , how far these things can come from our simple ideas , by reflection and sensation . and i shall lay down the hypothesis of those , who resolve our certainty into ideas , as plainly , and intelligibly , as i can . . we are told , that all simple ideas are true and adequate . not , that they are the true representation of things without us ; by that they are the true effects of such powers in them , as produce such sensations within us . so that really we can understand nothing certainly by them , but the effects they have upon us . . all our ideas of substances are imperfect and inadequate ; because they refer to the real essences of things , of which we are ignorant , and no man knows what substance is in it self : and they are all false , when look'd on as the representations of the unknown essences of things . . abstract ideas are only general names , made by separating circumstances of time and place , &c. from them , which are only the inventions , and creatures of the vnderstanding . . essence may be taken two ways . . for the real , internal , unknown constitutions of things , and in this sense it is understood as to particular things . . for the abstract idea , and one is said to be the nominal , the other the real essence . and the nominal essences only are immutable ; and are helps to enable men to consider things , and to discourse of them . but two things are granted , which tend to clear this matter . . that there is a real essence , which is the foundation of powers and properties . . that we may know these powers and properties , although we are ignorant of of the real essence . from whence i inferr . . that from those true and adequate ideas , which we have of the modes and properties of things , we have sufficient certainty of the real essence of them : for these ideas are allow'd to be true ; and either by them we may judge of the truth of things ; or we can make no judgment at all of any thing without our selves . if our ideas be only the effects we feel of the powers of things without us ; yet our reason must be satisfied , that there could be no such powers , unless there were some real beings which had them . so that either we may be certain by those effects of the real being of things ; or it is not possible , as we are framed , to have any certainty at all of any thing without our selves . . that from the powers and properties of things which are knowable by us , we may know as much of the internal essence of things , as those powers and properties discover . i do not say , that we can know all essences of things alike ; nor that we can attain to a perfect understanding of all that belong to them : but if we can know so much , as that there are certain beings in the world , endued with such distinct powers and properties , what is it we complain of the want of , in order to our certainty of things ? but we do not see the bare essence of things . what is that bare essence without the powers and properties belonging to it ? it is that internal constitution of things from whence those powers and properties flow . suppose we be ignorant of this ( as we are like to be , for any discoveries that have been yet made , that is a good argument to prove the uncertainty of philosophical speculations about the real essences of things ; but it is no prejudice to us , who enquire after the certainty of such essences . for although we cannot comprehend the internal frame , or constitution of things , nor in what manner they do flow from the substance ; yet by them we certainly know that there are such essences , and that they are distinguished from each other by their powers and properties . . the essences of things as they are knowable by us , have a reality in them : for they are founded on the natural constitution of things . and however the abstract ideas are the work of the mind ; yet they are not meer creatures of the mind ; as appears by an instance produced of the essence of the sun , being in one single individual ; in which case it is granted , that the idea may be so abstracted , that more suns might agree in it , and it is as much a sort as if there were as many suns as there are stars . so that here we have a real essence subsisting in one individual , but capable of being multiplied into more , and the same essence remaining . but in this one sun there is a real essence , and not a meer nominal or abstracted essence : but suppose there were more suns ; would not each of them have the real essence of the sun ? for what is it makes the second sun to be a true sun , but having the same real essence with the first ? if it were but a nominal essence , then the second would have nothing but the name . therefore there must be a real essence in every individual of the same kind ; for that alone is it , which makes it to be what it is . peter , and iames , and iohn , are all true and real men ; but what is it which makes them so ? is it the attributing a general name to them ? no certainly , but that the true and real essence of a man is in every one of them . and we must be as certain of this , as we are that they are men ; they take their denomination of being men from that common nature , or essence which is in them . . that the general idea is not made from the simple ideas by the meer act of the mind abstracting from circumstances , but from reason and consideration of the true nature of things . for , when we see so many individuals , that have the same powers and properties , we thence infer , that there must be something common to all , which makes them of one kind : and if the difference of kinds be real , that which makes them of one kind and not of another , must not be a nominal , but real essence . and this difference doth not depend upon the complex ideas of substance , whereby men arbitrarily joyn modes together in their minds ; for let them mistake in the complication of their ideas , either in leaving out , or putting in what doth not belong to them , and let their ideas be what they please ; the real essence of a man , and a horse , and a tree , are just what they were : and let their nominal essences differ never so much , the real common essence , or nature of the several kinds are not at all alter'd by them . and these real essences are unchangeable : for , however there may happen some variety in individuals , by particular accidents , yet the essences of men , and horses , and trees remain always the same ; because they do not depend on the ideas of men , but on the will of the creator , who hath made several sorts of beings . . let us now come to the idea of a person . for , although the common nature in mankind be the same , yet we see a difference in the several individuals from one another : so that peter and iames , and iohn are all of the same kind ; yet peter is not iames , and iames is not iohn . but what is this distinction founded upon ? they may be distinguished from each other by our senses , as to difference of features , distance of place , &c. but that is not all ; for supposing there were no such external difference ; yet there is a difference between them , as several individuals in the same common nature . and here lies the true idea of a person , which arises from that manner of subsistence which is in one individual , and is not communicable to another . an individual , intelligent substance , is rather supposed to the making of a person , than the proper definition of it ; for a person relates to something which doth distinguish it from another intelligent substance in the same nature ; and therefore the foundation of it lies in the peculiar manner of subsistence , which agrees to one , and to none else of the kind ; and this is it which is called personality . but how do our simple ideas help us out in this matter ? can we learn from them , the difference of nature and person ? we may understand the difference between abstracted ideas , and particular beings , by the impressions of outward objects ; and we may find an intelligent substance in our selves by inward perception ; ●ut whether that make a person or not , must be understood some other way ; for , if the meer intelligent substance makes a person , then there cannot be the union of two natures , but there must be two persons . therefore a person is a compleat intelligent substance , with a peculiar manner of subsistence ; so that if it be a part of another substance , it is no person ; and on this account the soul is no person , because it makes up an entire being by its union with the body . but when we speak of finite substances and persons , we are certain that distinct persons do imply distinct substances , because they have a distinct and separate existence ; but this will not hold in an infinite substance , where necessary existence doth belong to the idea of it . and although the argument from the idea of god , may not be sufficient of it self to prove his being ; yet it will hold as to the excluding any thing from him , which is inconsistent with necessary existence ; therefore , if we suppose a distinction of persons in the same divine nature , it must be in a way agreeable to the infinite perfections of it . and no objection can be taken from the idea of god , to overthrow a trinity of co-existing persons in the same divine essence . for necessary existence doth imply a co-existence of the divine persons ; and the unity of the divine essence , that there cannot be such a difference of individual substances , as there is among mankind . but these things are said to be above our reason , if not contrary to it , and even such are said to be repugnant to our religion . . that therefore is the next thing to be carefully examin'd , whether mysteries of faith , or matters of revelation above our reason , are to be rejected by us . and a thing is said to be above our reason , when we can have no clear and distinct idea of it in our minds : and , that if we have no ideas of a thing , it is certainly but lost labour for us to trouble our selves about it ; and that , if such doctrines be proposed which we cannot understand , we must have new powers , and organs for the perception of them . we are far from defending contradictions to our natural notions ( of which i have spoken already ) but that which we are now upon is , whether any doctrine may be rejected , when it is offer'd as a matter of faith upon this account , that it is above our comprehension , or that we can have no clear idea of it in our minds . and this late author hath undertaken to prove , that there is nothing so mysterious , or above reason in the gospel . to be above reason , he saith , may be understood two ways . . for a thing intelligible in it self , but cover'd with figurative and mystical words . . for a thing in its own nature unconceivable , and not to be judged of by our faculties , tho' it be never so clearly revealed . this in either sense is the same with mystery . and from thence he takes occasion to shew his learning about the gentile mysteries , and ecclesiastical mysteries , which might have been spared in this debate , but only for the parallel aimed at between them , as to priest-craft and mysteries ; without which a work of this nature would want its due relish with his good christian readers . others we see have their mysteries too ; but the comfort is , that they are so easily understood , and seen through ; as when the heathen mysteries , are said , to have been instituted at first in commemoration of some remarkable accidents , or to the honour of some great persons that obliged the world by their vertues and useful inventions to pay them such acknowledgments . he must be very dull that doth not understand the meaning of this ; and yet this man pretends to vindicate christianity from being mysterious . but there are some , he saith , that being strongly inclined out of ignorance , or passion to maintain what was first introduced by the craft or superstition of their forefathers , will have some christian doctrines to be still mysteries in the second sense of the word ; that is , unconceiveable in themselves , however clearly revealed . i hope there are still some , who are so throughly perswaded of the christian doctrine , that they dare own and defend it , notwithstanding all the flouts and taunts of a sort of men , whose learning and reason lies most in exposing priest-craft , and mysteries . suppose there are such still in the world , who own their assent to some doctrines of faith , which they confess to be above their comprehension , what mighty reason , and invincible demonstration is brought against them ? he pretends to demonstrate ; but what i pray ? the point in hand ? no. but he will demonstrate something instead of it ? what is that ? why truly , that in the new testament mystery is always used in the first sense of the word . and what then ? doth it therefore follow , that there are no doctrines in the gospel above the reach and comprehension of our reason ? but how doth it appear , that the word mystery is always used in that sense ? when s. paul saith in his first epistle to timothy , chap. . v. . that the deacons must hold the mystery of faith in a pure conscience ; doth he not mean thereby the same with the form of sound words , which timothy had heard of him , tim. . . and are not all the main articles of the christian faith comprehended under it ? especially that whereinto they were baptized , in the name of the father , son and holy ghost : and if the doctrine of the trinity were understood by this form , as i have already proved , then this must be a part of the mystery of faith. and in the same chapter , v. . he makes god manifest in the flesh ; the first part of the mystery of godliness . if it extends to all the other things , doth it exclude this , which is the first mention'd ? ( and that our copies are true , is already made to appear . ) there is no reason therefore to quarrel with our use of the word mystery in this sense ; but the debate doth not depend upon the word , but upon the sense of it . and therefore i pass over all that relates to the bare use of the word , as not coming up to the main point ; which is , whether any point of doctrine , which contains in it something above our comprehension can be made a matter of faith ? for our author concludes from his observations , that faith is so far from being an implicit assent to any thing above reason , that this notion directly contradicts the end of religion , the nature of man , and the goodness and wisdom of god. but we must not be frighted with this bold conclusion , till we have examin'd his premises ; and then we shall find , that some who are not great readers , are no deep reasoners . the first thing he premises is , that nothing can be said to be a mystery , because we have not an adequate idea of it , or a distinct view of all its properties at once , for then every thing would be a mystery . what is the meaning of this , but that we cannot have an adequate idea of any thing ? and yet all our reason depends upon our ideas according to him , and our clear and distinct ideas are by him made the sole foundation of reason . all our simple ideas are said to be adequate , because they are said to be only the effects of powers in things which produce sensations in us . but this doth not prove them adequate as to the things , but only as to our perceptions . but as to substances we are told , that all our ideas of them are inadequate . so that the short of this is , that we have no true knowledge or comprehension of any thing ; but we may understand matters of faith , as well as we understand any thing else , for in truth we understand nothing . is not this a method of true reasoning to make us reject doctrines of faith , because we do not comprehend them , and at the same time to say we comprehend nothing ? for i appeal to the common sense of mankind , whether we can be said to comprehend that , which we can have no adequate idea of ? but he appeals to the learned ; for he saith , that to comprehend in all correct authors is nothing else but to know . but what is to know ? is it not to have adequate ideas of the things we know ? how then can we know , that of which we can have no adequate idea ? for if our knowledge be limited to our ideas , our knowledge must be imperfect and inadequate where our ideas are so . but let us lay these things together . whatever we can have no adequate idea of is above our knowledge , and consequently above our reason ; and so all substances are above our reason ; and yet he saith , with great confidence , that to assent to any thing , above reason , destroys religion , and the nature of man , and the wisdom and goodness of god. how is it possible for the same man to say this , and to say w●thal , that it is very consistent with that nature of man , and the goodness and wisdom of god , to leave us without adequate ideas of any substance ? how come the mysteries of faith to require more knowledge than the nature of man is capable of ? in natural things we can have no adequate ideas ; but the things are confessed to be above our reason ; but in divine and spiritual things , to assent to things above our reason is against the nature of man. how can these things consist ? but these are not mysteries . yes , whatever is of that nature that we can have no idea of it , is certainly a mystery to us . for what is more unknown than it is known is a mystery . the true notion of a mystery being something that is hidden from our knowledge . of which there may be several kinds . for a mystery may be taken for , . something kept secret , but fully understood as soon as it is discover'd ; thus tully in his epistles speaks of mysteries which he had to tell his friend , but he would not let his amanuensis know ; no doubt such things might be very well understood as soon as discover'd . . something kept from common knowledge , although there might be great difficulties about them when discover'd . thus tully speaks of mysteries among the philosophers , particularly among the academicks , who kept up their doctrine of the criterion as a secret , which , when it was known , had many difficulties about it . . something that persons were not admitted to know , but with great preparation for it . such were the athenian mysteries which tully mentions with respect , although they deserved it not : but because they were not communicated to any but with difficulty , they were called mysteries . and this is so obvious a piece of learning , that no great reading , or deep reasoning is required about it . only it may be observed , that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is opposed to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so the mysteries related to those who were initiated and not made epoptoe ; i. e. to those who did not throughly understand them , although they had more knowledge of them than such as were not initiated . olympiodorus , in reckoning up the degrees of admissions , mentions the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 before 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so that they were properly mysteries to such , who knew something ; though there were other things farther to be discover'd , but they did not yet know what they were , as the epoptoe did . from hence the ancient christian writers did not only call the sacraments , but more abstruse points of faith by the name of mysteries ; so s. chrysostom calls the resurrection , a great and ineffable mystery . and isidore pelusiota in his epistle to lampetius saith , that s. paul , when he speaks of the great mystery of godliness , doth not mean that it is wholly unknown to us , but that it is impossible to comprehend it . theophylact saith , it is therefore called the great mystery of godliness ; because although it be now revealed to all , yet the manner of it is hidden from us , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for this reason it is called a mystery . but this is in the way of reading ; let us now come to deep reasoning ; and see how strongly he argues against this sense of the word mysteries : his words are these ; they trifle then exceedingly , and discover a mighty scarcity of better arguments , who defend their mysteries , by this pitiful shift of drawing inferences from what is unknown to what is known , or of insisting upon adequate ideas ; except they will agree as some do , to call every spire of grass , sitting and standing , fish and flesh to be mysteries . and if out of a pertinacious or worse humour , they will be still fooling , and call these things mysteries , i 'm willing to admit as many as they please in religion , if they will allow me likewise to make mine as intelligible to others , as these are to me . it is easie to guess whom these kind words were intended for : and are not these very modest and civil expressions ? trifling , fooling ; out of a pertinacious , or worse humour ; but why , fooling about mysteries , to call such things by that name , which are in some measure known , but in a greater measure unknown to us ? and if these are real mysteries in nature , why may not the same term be used for matters of faith ? and i think in so plain a case , no great store of arguments need to be used . but in these natural things , he saith , we have distinct ideas of the properties which make the nominal essence , but we are absolutely ignorant of the real essence , or intrinsick constitution of a thing , which is the ground or support of all its properties . are not then ( without trifling and fooling ) these real essences mysteries to them ? they know there are such by the ideas of their properties , but know nothing of their real essence ; and yet they will not allow them to be mysteries ? if they do understand them , why do they say , they do not , nor cannot ? and if this be true , let them call them what they please , they must be inexplicable mysteries to them . so that all this is mere quarrelling about a word , which they would fain be rid of , if they knew how ; but they involve and perplex themselves more by their own deep reasonings against the trifling and fooling of others . but he saith , that some would have the most palpable absurdities and gross contradictions to go down , or words that signifie nothing , because men cannot comprehend the essence of their own souls , nor the essence of god , and other spiritual substances . we utterly deny , that any article of our faith contains in it any palpable absurdities , or gross contradictions ( as i hope hath been proved already as to the doctrine of the trinity which is chiefly struck at ) but surely your deep reasoners may find a difference between gross contradictions to our reason , and barely being above it , or not having any distinct conception of the nature of it . and that is all that we assert , and which they grant as to all substances . if this be their way of arguing , they may even return to transubstantiation again , without any great lessening of their understandings . but none are so bold in attacking the mysteries of the christian faith ; as the smatterers in ideas , and new terms of philosophy , without any true understanding of them . for these ideas are become but another sort of canting with such men ; and they would reason as well upon genus and species , or upon occult qualities , and substantial forms , but only that they are terms out of fashion . but we find that the change of terms doth neither improve nor alter mens understandings ; but only their ways of speaking ; and ill gamesters will not manage their game one jot the better , for having new cards in their hands . however , we must see what work they make of it . although we do not know the nature of the soul , yet we know as much of it , as we do of any thing else , if not more , i. e. we really know nothing by any adequate idea of it , but we must believe nothing , but what we have a clear distinct idea of . is not this a rare way of fixing the boundaries of faith and reason ? as to god and his attributes , it is said , that they are not mysteries to us for want of an adequate idea ; no not eternity . and in another place , as to god , we comprehend nothing better than his attributes . let us try this , by the attribute pitched on by himself ; viz. eternity . we see he pretends to comprehend nothing better than the divine attributes ; and eternity as well as any ; ( which i am very apt to believe ) but how doth he comprehend eternity ? even by finding , that it cannot be comprehended . is not this subtle and deep reasoning ? but reason he saith , performs its part in finding out the true nature of things ; and if such be the nature of the thing , that it cannot be comprehended , then reason can do no more , and so it is not above reason . was there ever such trifling that pretended to reason ; and that about the highest matters , and twith scorn and contempt of others whom he calls mysterious wits ? the question is , whether any thing ought to be rejected as an article of faith , because we cannot comprehend it , or have a clear and distinct perception of it ? he concludes it must be so , or else we overthrow religion , and the nature of man , and the wisdom and goodness of god. here is an essential attribute of god , viz. his eternity . am i bound to believe it or not ? yes , doubtless . but how can i comprehend this attribute of eternity ? very easily . how so ? do not you comprehend that it is incomprehensible ? what then ? doth this reach the nature of the thing , or only the manner of our conception ? if the nature of the thing be , that it cannot be comprehended , then you rightly understand the nature of the thing , and so it is not above your reason . let the case be now put as to the trinity ; do you believe the doctrine of it , as of divine revelation ? no , god hath given me the nature , and faculties of a man ; and i can believe nothing , which i cannot have a distinct and clear idea of ; otherwise i must have new faculties . will you hold to this principle ? then you must believe nothing , which you cannot have a clear and distinct idea of . very true : but can you have a clear and distinct idea of what you cannot comprehend ? a clear idea , is that whereof the mind hath a full and evident perception . a distinct idea , is that whereby the mind perceives the difference of it from all others . is this right ? yes . but can you have a full and evident perception of a thing , so as to difference it from all others , when you grant it to be incomprehensible ? if you have a full perception of it , you comprehend its nature , and especially if you can difference it from all other things ; but when you say , its nature is incomprehensible , and yet believe it , you must deny it to be necessary to faith , to have a clear and distinct idea of the thing proposed . and if it be repugnant to your faculties to reject the trinity , because you cannot have a clear and distinct idea of it , for the same reason , you must unavoidably reject his eternity , and all other attributes which have infinity joyned with them . but we must stop here , because this admirable undertaker hath said , that he despairs not of rendring eternity , and infinity as little mysterious , as that three and two make five . and till then i take my leave of him . and so i return to our professed vnitarians , who in answer to my sermon fell upon the same subject , and it is necessary that i consider so much , as tends to the clearing of it . in my sermon i had urged this argument to prove , that we may be bound to believe some things that are incomprehensible to us , because the divine nature , and attributes are acknowledged to be so ; and i had said , ( . ) that there is no greater difficulty in the conception of the trinity , and incarnation , than there is of eternity . not but that there is great reason to believe it , but from hence it appears , that our reason may oblige us to believe some things , which it is not possible for us to comprehend . and what say our vnitarians to this ? they charge my notion of eternity ( as they call it ) with a contradiction . the best way of proceeding will be to set down my own words which are these . we know that either god must have been for ever , or it is impossible he ever should be , for if he should come into being when he was not , he must have some cause of his being , and that which was the first cause would be god. but if he was for ever , he must be from himself , and what notion , or conception can we have in our minds concerning it ? to this say they , to say a person , or thing is from it self is a contradiction ; it implies this contradiction , it was before it was . and they are sorry an eternal god must be a contradiction . what a false and spiteful inference is this ? but it had look'd like very deep reasoning , if i had said , that god was the cause of himself . for , that would have implied the contradiction he had charged it with : but i had expressly excluded his being from any cause ; and the thing i urged was only the impossibility , of our having a clear and distinct conception of eternity . for , if he could have no cause , what could we think of his being eternal ? if to be from himself as a cause , be unconceivable , ( as i grant it is ) then it proves what i designed , that we cannot have any distinct idea of eternity . but to be from himself in the sense generally understood , is a meer negative expression ; for no men were such fools to imagine any thing could be before it self , and in this sense only , learned men have told us , that it is to be understood by those ancient and modern writers , who have used that expression . as when s. ierom saith , that god is self originated ; and s. augustin , that god is the cause of his own wisdom ; and lactantius , that god made himself ; all these and such like expressions are only to be negatively understood . but i confess i aimed at shewing , that it was impossible for us to have any clear and distinct idea of eternity , and therefore i took in all possible ways of conceiing it , either by gods being from himself , or his co-existing with all differences of time , without any succession in his own being ; or his having a successive duration . from all which i argued the impossibility of a clear notion of eternity . and now what do these men do ? they dispute against one of these notions , and very triumphantly expose , as they think , the absurdities of it . and what then ? why then this notion will not do . but i say none will do . i prove there can be no successive duration in a being of necessary existence ; and that it is not to be conceived , how without succession god should be present with the being , and not being , the promise and performance of the same thing ; and yet one of these ways we must make use of . from whence i concluded , that all we can attain to is , a full satisfaction of our reason concerning god's eternity , although we can form no distinct conception of it in our minds . but when these men instead of answering the argument from all the notions of eternity , only dispute against one notion of it , they apparently shew the weakness of their cause , if it will bear no other defences , but such as this . for i take it , that the main debate in point of reason depends upon this , whether we can be certain of the being of a thing , of which we can have no clear and distinct idea ? if we may , then it can be no objection in point of revelation , that we can have no clear and distinct idea of the matter revealed ; since there can be no reason to tie us up stricter in point of revelation , than we are without it . if we can be certain in reason of many things , we can have no such ideas of , what imaginable reason can there be , that a point of faith should be rejected on that account . . i urged another attribute of god , viz. his spirituality for the same reason ; viz. that we are satisfied in point of reason that god must be a spirit ; and yet we cannot have a clear distinct positive notion of a spirit . and what answer do they give to this ? as wise as the former . why truly , i had no cause to object this against them , because they own the spirituality of god's nature , and none since biddle have denied it . very well ! but doth my argument proceed upon that , or upon the not having a distinct and clear idea of a spirit ? it was hardly possible for men so to mistake my meaning , unless they did it , because they had no other answer to give . . i argued from god's prescience , which i do expresly assert , and prove that they cannot have a distinct notion of it , nay that socinus denied it , because he could not understand it . 〈…〉 they tell me , i cannot defend our 〈…〉 against theirs without finding contra●●●tions in god●s eternity and foreknowledge . if this be the ingenuity and justice and charity of the vnitarians ; commend me to the honest-hearted deists , if there be any such , as they assure us there are . one had better be charged with trifling and fooling with mysteries , than with undermining the main foundations of religion , by charging them with contradictions . but nothing could be farther from my thoughts , than any thing tending that way . and such a base calumny is too much honoured with a confutation . but do they offer to clear the difficulty and give us a clear and distinct idea of god●s fore-knowing future events without a certain cause to make them future . nothing like it . for the question is not , whether a thing be necessary because god foresees it as certain , ( as they suppose . ) but how of a thing merely possible it comes to be certain without a certain cause ; and how a thing which hath no certain cause can be certainly foreknown , and what clear and distinct notion we can have of this in our minds . if they had answer'd this , they had said something to the purpose . to resolve all into god's infinite wisdom is a good answer from us , but not from them . for we think it our duty to satisfie our selves with what god hath revealed , without prying into the manner of things above our comprehension ; but these men who will receive nothing but what they have clear and distinct ideas of , ought to shew the manner of this , or else we must be excused on the same reason , if we allow the manner of the divine subsistences in the same essence to be above our comprehension . . i shew'd how unreasonable their demands were , when the nature of god is owned to be incomprehensible , and his perfections infinite . and now of a sudden they are quite turned about ; for before they were only for fencing and warding off blows , but at last they come to the point , and own the being of god to be comprehensible by them ; and that they have clear and distinct ideas of god's infinite attributes . this is indeed to the purpose , if they can make these things out . but fencers have many tricks , and i wish we find none here . i had said , that in consequence to the assertion , that nothing is to be believ'd , but what may be comprehended , the very being of god must be rejected too , because his being is incomprehensible , and so they must reject one god as well three persons . to this they reply , that to comprehend the being or existence of god , is only this , to comprehend that god is , and if we cannot comprehend that , all religion ceases . is not this a fine turn ? what i said of god as to the perfections of his nature , they will have it understood of his bare existence , which i do not mention . when god is said to be an incomprehensible being ; who before them did understand the meaning to be , that we cannot comprehend that there is a god ? this is not mere trifling , for it looks like something worse ; and yet they presently after say , that to comprehend a thing is to have a clear adequate conception of it . and will they pretend to have such a one of the divine essence , when they confess but a little before , that we converse every day with very many things , none of which we comprehend , and that i might have spared my pains in proving it ? but what can be the meaning of these sayings , they cannot comprehend the common natures of things , nor have a clear and distinct idea of them , but they can comprehend an infinite being , whom all mankind own to be incomprehensible . but as to divine attributes , they say , they have clear distinct and adequate conceptions of them ; and instance in eternity , power , wisdom and iustice. we do not deny that in such attributes which we apply to god , because we find them to be perfections in us , we have a distinct and clear perception of them , as they are consider'd in themselves , for that is the reason why we attribute them to god. but for such as peculiarly belong to god as eternity doth ; and for the degrees of other attributes as they belong to him , as they are infinite , so they are above our comprehension . ( . ) as to eternity , say they , it is a clear and distinct notion of eternity , to say , it is a duration without beginning and without end . but we can have no clear and distinct notion of duration , when applied to a being that hath necessary existence . for duration , they say , consists in a succession . and what succession can there be in a being which always is the same , if there were no difference of times , i. e. god was the same being before time was , and is the very same being under all the differences of times ; he hath not any other duration now than he had before , and what succession could there be where there was no time ? but we make use of duration with respect to things done in time , and for the help of our und●●standings apply the measure of time to divine acts. but in a necessary existence , there can be no past , present , or to come ; and in a successive duration , there must be conceived a longer continuance from time to time ; which is repugnant to the notion of a being , which always is . so that , if we cannot conceive eternity wi●hout duration , nor duration without succession ; nor can apply succession to a being which hath necessary existence , then we can have no clear and distinct notion of god's eternity . ( . ) as to the infiniteness of god's perfections , they say , that although the mind be in it self finite , yet it hath an infinite comprehension , for what is finite with respect to its extension of parts may be infinite in other respects , and with respect to some of its powers . but how doth it appear that we have any power to comprehend what is infinite ? all the power we have extends only to adding and enlarging our ideas without bounds , i. e. we can put no stop to our apprehensions , but still they may go farther than we can possibly think , but is this an infinite comprehension ? so far from it , that this shews our capacities to be finite , because our ideas cannot go so far as our reason . for our reason tells us , we can never go so far , but we may still go farther : but it is impossible for our understanding to have distinct ideas of the infinite moments in an eternal succession of the utmost bounds of immensity , or of the extent of infinite power and knowledge , since the very notion of infinite implies , that we can set no bounds to our thoughts ; and therefore although the infinity of the divine attributes be evident to our reason , yet it is likewise evident to our reason , that what is infinite must be above our comprehension . ii. i come now to the last enquiry which is that if we allow things above our reason , what stop can be put to any absurd doctrine , which we may be required to believe ? and this is that which our vnitarians object in all their late pamphlets . in answer to my sermon they say , that on our principles , our reason would be in vain , and all science and certainty would be destroy'd , which they repeat several times . and from hence they do so frequently insist on the parallel between the doctrine of the trinity and transubstantiation : they say , that all the defence we have made for one will serve for the other , or any other absurd and impossible doctrine . that what we say , will equally serve all the nonsense , and impossible doctrines that are to be found among men ; and they particularly instance in transubstantiation . i need mention no more . but i did not expect to have found this parallel so often insisted upon , without an answer to two dialogues purposely written on that subject , at a time when the doctrine of the trinity was used as an argument to bring in transubstantiation , as that is now alledged for casting off the other . but i must do them that right to tell the world , that at that time a socinian answer was written to those dialogues , which i saw , and wish'd might be printed , that the world might be satisfied about it and them . but they thought fit to forbear ; and in all their late pamphlets where this parallel is so often repeated , there is but once , that i can find , any notice taken of those dialogues , and that in a very superficial manner . for the main design and scope of them is past over , and only one particular mention'd , which shall be answer'd in its due order . but in answer to the general enquiry , i shall endeavour to state the due bounds between faith and reason , and thereby to shew , that by those grounds on which we receive the doctrine of the trinity , we do not give way to the entertainment of any absurd opinion , nor overthrow the certainty of reason . . we have no difference with them about the vse of our reason as to the certainty of a revelation . for in this case , we are as much as they , for searching into the grounds of our faith ; for we look on it as a reasonable act of our minds , and if we did not allow this , we must declare our selves to believe without grounds . and if we have grounds for our faith , we can express them in words that are intelligible ; and if we can give an account of our faith in an intelligible manner , and with a design to give others satisfaction about it , i think this is making use of our reason in matters of faith. . we have no difference with them about the use of our reason , as to the true sense of revelation . we never say , that men are bound to believe upon the bare sound of words without examining the sense of them . we allow all the best and most reasonable ways of attaining to it , by copies , languages , versions , comparing of places , and especially the sense of the christian church in the best and purest ages , nearest the apostolical times and express'd in solemn and publick acts. by these rules of reason we are willing to proceed , and not by any late and uncertain methods of interpreting scripture . . we differ not with them about the right use of the faculties which god hath given us , of right vnderstanding such matters as are offer'd to our assent . for it is to no purpose to require them to believe , who cannot use the faculties which are necessary in order to it . which would be like giving the benefit of the clergy to a man with a cataract in both his eyes . and it would be very unreasonable to put his life upon that issue , whether he could read or not , because he had the same organs of seeing that other men had ; for in this case the whole matter depended not on the organ but the vse of it : this needs no application . . we differ not with them about rejecting some matters proposed to our belief which are contradictory to the principles of sense and reason . it is no great argument of some mens reason , whatever they pretend to talk against admitting seeming contradictions in religion ; for who can hinder seeming contradictions ? which arise from the shallowness of mens capacities , and not from the repugnancy of things : and who can help mens understandings ? but where there is evident proof of a contradiction to the principles of sense and reason ; we are very far from owning any such thing to be an article of faith , as in the case of transubstantiation . which we reject , not only , as having no foundation in scripture , but as repugnant to the common principles of sense and reason ; as is made to appear in the two dialogues before-mention'd . but our vnitarians find fault with the author of them , for laying the force of his argument upon this , that there are a great many more texts for the trinity than are pretended for transubstantiation ; whereas many other arguments are insisted on , and particularly the great absurdity of it in point of reason , dial. . from p. . to the end . and it is not the bare number of texts , which he relies upon , but upon the greater evidence and clearness of the tex●s on one side than on the other , which depends upon figurative words , not capable of a literal sense without overthrowing the doctrine designed to be proved by it . see with what ingenuity these men treat the defenders of the trinity , and the enemies to transubstantiation , which they call only a philosophical error or folly ; but the doctrine of the trinity is charged with nonsense , contradiction , and impossibilities . but wherein then lies the difference in point of reason ? for thus far i have shew'd , that we are far from overthrowing reason , or giving way to any absurd doctrines . it comes at last to the point already treated of in this chapter , how far we may be obliged to believe a doctrine which carries in it something above our reason ; or of which we cannot have any clear and distinct ideas . and of this i hope i have given a sufficient account in the foregoing discourse . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e consideraton the ezplications of the doctrine of the trinity , by dr. w. &c. p. . p. . p. . discourse concerning the real and nominal trinitarians , a. d. , p. . letter to the universities , p. . discourse of nominal and real trinit . p. . p. . p. . p. . tritheism charged , &c. p. . animadvers p. . animadv . &c. p. . ibid p. . basil ep. . considerat . on the explication , p. . animadv . p. . tritheism charged , p. . chap. vii . letter to the university , p. . discourse of nominal and real trinitarians , p. . tritheism charged , &c. p. . discourse of nominal and real unitarians , p. . discourse of nom. &c. p. . p. . consideraton the explication of the trinity , p. . tritheism charged , &c. p. . direct . inquisit . part ii. quaest . . p. . modest examin p. . p. , . notes on athanasius his creed , edit . . p. . modest examin p . p. . p. . p. . remarks upon the examinat . p. . remarks p. . p. . ibid. animadv . p. . modest examin p. . tritheism charged , p. . p. . more nevoch , par . ii. c. . modest examin . p. . considerat . on the explication of the trinity , &c. p. . leont . de sectis act. . niceph. callist l. . c. , . anselm . epist. l. . ep . . de fide trinit . &c. c. . c. . c . phot. biblioth . cod. . phot cod. . isid. orig. l. . de haeret de trinit . aug. de haeres●● . modest examin . p. . discourse of real and nominal trinit p greg de laur apol . joachim abb●t , c. . decret . greg. l. . c. . comment . in decret . opusc . . bri●f account of valentin . gentilis , p. . ibid. modest examin . p. . brief account , &c. p. . brief account , &c. p. , , , . modest examin . p. . genebrard de trinit l. . p. . l p . p. . od●●at rixas & jurgia , p●aesertimque inter eruditos ; ac turpe esse diceb●t viros indubitatè doctos canina rabie famam vicissim suam rodere ac lacerare scriptis trucibus , tanquam vilissimos de plebe cerdones in angiportis sese luto ac stercore conspurcan●●● . nic rigalt . vit . p. 〈◊〉 , p. . considerat . on the explication by dr. w. &c. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . defence of the notes on athanasius his creed . p. . p. . vindication of the archbishop's sermons . p. . answer to dr. bull , p. . history of the unitarians , p. . considerat . on the explication by the archbishop , &c. p. . answ●r to the archbish . serm. p. . p. . answer to the archbishop p. . some thoughts upon dr. sh. vindication , p. . letter of resol . concerning the trinity and incarn . p. . letter of resol . p. . letter of resol . concerning the trinity and incarn . p. . elmacin hist. sarac . p. . levin . warner . de alcoran . acts of athanasius , p. . ricard . confut . legis saracen . c. . letter of resol . p. . answer to the archbishop p. . p. . notes for div a -e considerat . on the explications of the trinity , by dr. w. &c. p. , . defence of the history of the unit . p. . answer to the archbishop's sermon , p. . answer to the archb. serm. p . explic●● of the t●●nity , p. . answer to milbourn , p. , . history of the unit. p. . answer to the archb. p. , . answer to my sermon p. . ans. to dr. wallis 's four letters , p. . theodoret haeret . l. . & . epiphan . haeres . . n. . . n. . tertull de praescript . haeret c . euseb. hist. eccl. l. . c. . hist. of the unit. p. . edit . ii. euseb. l. . c. . ante-nicenism . p. . answer to milb . p. . euseb. l. . c. . resp. ad judic . eccles . p. . answer to dr. bull , part i. p. . euseb. l. , c. . act. . . epiphan . haer . n. . euseb. l. . c. . l. . c. . l. c. . oros. l. . c. . answer to dr. bull , p. . answer to dr. bull , p. . euseb. l. . c. , . l . c. . . l. . c. . hieron . c. pelag. l. . hieron . de script . in matth. comment . in matth. c. . in isa. c. . in ezek. c. . erasm. advers . stunic . c. . answer to dr. bull , p. . p. . p. . origen c. cels. l. . p. . theodor haeret . l. . c. . hieron in matth. c. . euseb. l. . c. . epiph. de ponder . & mens . n. . euseb. l. . c. . august . c. crescon . l. . c. . hier. in heb. c. . advers . ruffin . answer to the archb. sermon p. , . euseb. l. . c. . reflect . on dr. bull , p . answer to milbourn , p. . athan. ad solit . vit . agent p. . euseb. l. . c. . respons . ad judicium ecclesiae p●r i● . bull , p. restaurans pauli samosatensis artes & dolos . decret . conc. sardin . apud hilar. fragment . p. . ed. par. . euseb l. . c. . theodor. haer . fab . l. . c. . athanas. desentent . dionysii , p. . euseb. l. . c. . athan. de incarn . to i. p. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . epiph. haer . . n. . concil . ephesin . part i. supplicatio basilii , &c. phot. epist . . marius mercat . de anath . nestorii , n. . leontius de sectis p. . edit . basil. euseb. l. . c. . leont . c. nestor . l. . hilar. fragment . p. . theod. l. . c. . pagi critica in bar. a. . n. . answer to the archbishop , p. . euseb l. , , . c. . theod. l. . c. . petav. de trinit . l. . c. . n. . h. valesius in theod . l. . c. . baron . a. . n. , &c. soz. l. c. . philost . l. . c. , . athanas. tom. . p. . socr. l. . c. . athan. de synodis arim. &c. p. . epiph haeret . . sulpit . sever. l. . p. . prudent . apoth . epiph. n. . n. , . n. . epiph. haeret . . socr. l. . ● . . soz. l. c. . hist. tripart . l. . c. . hist. of the unit. p. . concil general . to. ii. p. . ib. p. . ambros. apol. david . c. . ans. to the archbish. serm p. . theodor. haer●t . fab. l. . in photino . sand. hist. enucl . l. . p. . p. . blond . dec. . l. . sand. hist. eccles. l. . p. . . socr. l. . c. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . hilar. de synod . p. . ed. paris . hilar. de trinit . l. . n. . hilar. de trin. l. . n. . august . ep. . ma●ii mercat . oper . par. . p. . 〈◊〉 . a●●th . n●s●orii p. . euseb. l. . c. . answer to the serm. about the trinity , p. , , . history of the unitar . p. . n. . d●fence of the history of the unitarians , p. . a●t o● athanasiu● , p. . interrogant enim nos aliquando infideles , & dicunt , patrem quem dicitis , deum dicitis ? respondemus deum . filium quem dicitis , deum dicitis ? respondemus deum spiritum sanctum quem dicitis , deum dicitis ? respondemus deum . ergo inquiunt , pater & filius & spiritus sanctus tres sunt dei. respondemus , non. turbantur , quia non illuminantur , cor clausum habent quia clavem fidei non habent aug. in ioh. tr. . nos ergo fratres , fide praecedente , quae sanat oculum cordis nostri , quod intelligimus sine obscuritate capiamus , quod non intelligimus sine dubitatione credamus . ibid. answ. to serm. p. . a fundamento fidei non recedamus , ut ad culmen perfectionis veniamus . deus est pater . deus est filius , deus est spiritus sanctus , & ramen pater non est qui filius : nec filius est qui pater , nec spiritu● sanctus . patris & filii spiritus , pater est aut filius . ibid. trinitas unus deus , trinitas una aeternitas , una potestas , una majestas , tres personae sed non tres dii . non audemus dicere unam essentiam tres substantias , sed unam essentiam vel substantiam , tres autem personas , quemadmodum multi latini ista tractantes & digni auctoritate dixerunt , cum alium modum aptiorem non invenirent , quo enunciarent verbis , quod sine verbis intelligebant . aug. de trinit . l. . c. . nunc mihi calumniator respondeat , quid ergo tres ? ecce inquit tres dixisti , sed quid tres exprime ? immo tu numera . nam ego compleo tres , cum dico , pater & filius & spiritus sanctus . id. ubi supra . id enim quod pater ad se est , deus est , quod ad filium est , pater est : quod filius ad seipsum est , deus est ; quod ad patrem est , filius est . sed non quomodo illi duo homines sunt sic isti duo dii . quare hoc non est ita ibi ? quia illud aliud , hoc autem aliud est , quia illa divini●● est , haec humanitas . ubi cogitare coeperis , incipis numerare ; ubi numeraveris , quid numeraveris , non potes respondere . pater , pater est ; filius , filius ; spiritus sanctus , spiritus sanctus est . quid sunt isti tres ? non tres dii ? non. non tres omnipotentes ? non , sed unus omnipotens . hoc solo numerum insinuant , quod ad invicem sunt , non quod ad se sunt . boëth . oper . p. ● . numerus enim duplex est , unus quidem , quo numeramus , alter verò qui in rebus numerabilibus constat ; ergo in numero quo numeramus , repetitio unitatum facit pluritatem ; in rerum vero numero non facit pluralitatem unitatum repetitio . ita igitur substantia continet unitatem , relatio verò multiplicat trinitatem . nam idem pater qui filius non est ; nec idem uterque qui spiritus sanctus . idem tamen deus est , pater filius & spiritus sanctus . answer to milb . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . porphyr . isag. c. . ● . niceph. callist . l. . c. . discourse concerning the nominal and real trinitarian , p. . petav. de trinit . l. . c. . defence of the history of the unit . p. . ib. ib. answer to la moth. p. . explic. p. . letter to the university , p. . curcell . devocibus trinit . sect. . athanas. de sentent . dionys . p. , . orat. . de arian . p. . de communi essent . &c. p. . expos. fidei , p. ● . in illud omnia mihi trad p. . ep. ad serap . p. . orat. . c. arian . p. , , . &c. curcell . sect. iii. petav. de trinit . l. . c. . de decret . synod . nic. p. . , , . orat. . c. arian . p. . de decret . synod p. . curcell . dissert . n. . curcell . n. . athanas. de synod . arim & seluc . p. , , . p. . curcell . n. . maxim. oper. t. ii. p. . t. i. p . curcell . sect. . a discourse conc●rn●●g no●●●●l and real unitar . p . basil hom. ● . p. ● , . epist. , , . t. i. p. . t. ii. p. ● . cyril alex . dialog . de trinit . . p. , . curcell . n. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. . b. phot. cod. . cod. . discourse conce●ning the nominal and real unitar . p. , . basil. ep. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . basil. t. ii. p. . petav. de trinit . l. c. . n. . cur. n . basil. t. i. p. . cur n. . n. . t. ii. p. . cur. n. . greg. nyssen . t. iii. p. . petav. de trin. l. . ● n. , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 niceph. calist. hist. l. . c. . athan. t. ii. p. . caesar. quaest. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . greg. nyssen , tom. iii. p. cur. n. . n. . cur. n. . hilar. de synod . n. . hilar. de trinit . l. . n. . hilar. de synod . n. . hilar. de trinit . l. . n. . lumen ex lumine , quod sine detrimento suo naturam suam praestat ex sese , & quod dat habet , & quod dederit habeat , nascaturque quod sit . petav. de trinit . l. . c. . n. , . curcell . n. . ambros. de fide l. . c. . ed. nov. curcell . n. . aug. de trinit . l. . c. . c maxim l. . curcell . n. . august . de trinit . l. . c. . l. . c. , , . l. . c. . de ago●e christ. c. . c. maxim. l . c. . curcell . n. . notes on athanasius his creed , p. . basil. ep. . notes on athanas . his creed , p. . facund . l . p. . ed. serm. theod. haeret . fab. l. . c. . athan. de sent. dionys . p. . athanas. de decret . fidei nicen . p. . athanas. de sent. dionys. basil de sp. sancto c. . athan. orat . . c. arian . p. . greg. nazian . or. i. p. , . or. xxi p. . basil. hom. . p. , . basil. epist . ●pist . . . athanas. ● . . greg. naz. p. . basil. hom. . ruffin . p. . hist. l. . athan. ep. ad antioch , p. . socin . vol. l. p. . notes on athanas . his creed , p. . answer to my sermon , p. . hist. of the unit. p. . edit . . hist of the unit. p. . defence of of the hist. of unitar . p. . hist. of the unit. p. . ibid p. . answer to dr. wallis his letter , p. . answer to my sermon , p. . reflections no dr. bull , p. , . sand. p. . answ. to the archbishop , p. . eus●b . pra●p . evang . l. . c. . cyril . c. julian , l. . p. . . julian ep . . facund . l. . p. . rittangel in jezirah p. . morinus exerc. biblic . l. . exerc. . c. . eusebius dem. evang . l. . c. . bichin . happerasch p. . paris , a. d. . joh. . . . . . , . . . answer to the archbishop's serm. p. . answer to my sermon , p. . hist. of the unit. p. . answer to my sermon , p. . ans. to the archbishop , p. . matth. . . mar. . luk. . . pet. . . . enjed. in joh. . . answer to my sermon , p. . history of the unit. p. . p. p. ● . h. grot. opusc p. t. . christe caput rerum vitae melioris origo , immensi mensura patris , quem mente supremâ miratus sese genitor , de lumine lumen fundit , & aequali se spectat imagine totum . h grot. syl. p. . ed. ▪ joh. . . answer to the archbishop . p. . joh. . . answer to milb . p. . ib. p. . joh. . . matt. . . selden de jure nat. & gent. l. . c. . pocock not. miscel . ad maim . p. . &c. matt. . s. joh. . . . . . . . hist. of unitar . p. . answer to milb . p. . joh. . . . phil. . , . hist. of unitar . p. . answer to serm. p. . answer to milb . p. . ib. col. . answer to archbish. serm p. . p. . de divin . christi , c. ● . defence of the hist. of the unit. p. . rom. . . hist. of the unit. p . answer to milb p . ante-nicen . p. , . answer to milb p . ans. to the archbishop , p. . answer to milb p. . histoir critique du nov. test. to. iii. c. . p. . annot. in cypr. advers . judaeos . hilar. in psal. . hist. of the unit. p. . hist. critique du nov. to. ii. c. . verum repugnant perpetuo consensu omnes graeci codices . bez. motinus exercit. bibl. l. . ex. . c. . simon . dissert . sur le ms. du nov , test p. rigalt . vit . p. puteani , p. . p. pithae de latino interpret . p. ii. mabil . de re deplomat . l. . p. . dissert . surless ms. du nov. test. p. . alavarez gomez de rebus gestis fr. ximenii , l. . & . amelote in loc. marian. edit . vulg . c. . praef. ad schol. hier. in loc. leo epist. . ad fl. hilar de trinit . l. . fulg. ad thra. c. . joh. . . consider on the explic. p. . history of unit. p. . ans. to the archbishop , p. . selden de syned . l. . c. . morin exercit bibl. l. , , ex. . simon dissert . de mss p. . bez epist. ad nov . testam . critique in nov . test. c. . morin . exercit . bibl. l . ex. . c. . n. . critique to. i. c. . joh. . . heb. . , . col. . . hist. of the unit. p. . defence of the history of unitar . p. , . p. . answer to milb . p. . p. . sand. interp . et paradox . p. . epiph. haer . . n. . n. . hilar. l. . de trinit . p. . cypri●n . ad jul. ep. . erasm. ad cens. paris . tit. ii. vossi . de symb. diss . i. n. . hierom. ep. . tertul. de bap●ism . ● . de praescript . haeret . c. . cyprian . ep. . . ed. ox. aug. de baptism . c. donat. l. . c. . ambros. de sp. sanct. l. . c . bed. in act. . hugo de s vict. de sacr. l. . c. . lomb. . sent. dist. ● . c. sed qd . basil c eunom . l. . c. . c. . epiph. haer. . ad fin . concil . nicaen . c. . aug. de haeres c. . concil . arel . i. c. . bellarm. de bap. l. . c. . answer to mi●b p. . p. . advers . prax. c. . c . tertul. de praescr . haeret . c. ult . con. prax. ● . . c. . alium autem quomodo accipere debes jam professus sum , personae non substantiae nomine , ad distinctionem , non ad divisionem , caeterum ubique teneo unam substantiam in tribus cohaerentibus . advers . prax. c. . et sermo erat apud deum & nunquam separatus à patre aut alius à patre , quia ego & pater unum sumus . haec erat probola veritatis , custos unitatis qua prolatum dicimus filium à patre , sed non separatum . c. . schlicht . ad m●isn . de trinit . p. , . . advers . prax. . nos vero ut semper nunc magi● ut instructiores per paracletum , &c. hanc regulam ab initio evangelii decueurrisse etiam ante priores haereticos , n●dum praxean hesternum . optat. mil. l. . theodor. haer l. c. . tertul. de praefer . c. . rigalt . in tertul. ad praxean . ante-nicen . p. . p. . in quo est trinitas unius divinitatis , pater , filius & spiritus sanctus . de pudicit . c. . petav. t. . l. . c. . sect. . schlichting . praef p. . ante-nicen . p. . novatian . de trinit . c. . , . c. . et cum spiritus sancti divina aeternitate sociari . cypr. ep. . basil epist. canon , . epiph haeres . . n. . n. . theod. haer . l. . c. . epiph. . n. . comment . in matth. p. . euseb. l. . c. . epiph. haer . . aug. in joh. tract . . discourse of nominal . and real unit. p. ● euseb. l. . c. . . athan. de decret . synodi nicaenae , p. . athanas. de sentent . dionysii , p. . basil de sp. sancto c. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . greg. thaumat . p. . athanas. c. serap . p. . answer to milb . p. . rittang . p. . p. . p. . answer to dr. bull , p. . morin . exercit. l. . l. . c. . cosri part. . p. . p. . p. . de sp. sancto , c. . c. . c. . c. . euseb. l. . c. . vales. ad euseb. p. . coteler vii . p. ● . c. . prudent . cath. hymn . . hilar. op. n. e. p. . apol. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . athenag . p. . defence of the hist. of the unit. p. . resp. ad judic . eccles p. . . just. apol. . paraei . ad graec. p. , , . dial. cum trypho , p. , &c. athenag . p. , . theophil . ad autolyc . p. . clemens paed. l. . c. . str. l. . p. . prof. p. . paed l. . c . str. l p. . orig. c. celf l . p. . l . p. l. . p. , ● , &c. . l . p. , . clem alex . str. . euseb. praep. l. . theod. serm. . cyril . c. jul. l. . & l. . plutarch de isid. & osirld . p. . ed. fr. eusebius praep. e. l. . c. . jamb . de myst. sect. . c. . macrob. in som. scipion . l. . c. . answer to milb p. . athan. ep. ad serapion , p. . tom. . ad serap . tom. . p. , . or. . c. arian p. . petavius t. ii. l. . c. . sect . . hist. of the unitar . p. . aug. in psal. . answ. to dr. bull , p. . eras. ad cens. paris . tit. ii. voss de tribus symb. dissert . . sect. . hilar. de synod . p. . epiphaninius haer . . n. . clausula fidei in edit . nuperâ paris . ex mss. p. . p. . answer to my sermon p. . letter of resolution , p. . christianity not mysterious , p. , . chap. i. human understanding , l. . chap. . sect . . l. . c. . sect . . chap. . sect . . l. . ch . . sect . . l . ch . . sect . . valla disput . dial. l. . c. . chap. . sect . . humane underst . i. . ch . . sect. . d . ed. p. book . iv. chap. . sect . . book . ii. chap. . sect . . sect. . sect. . sect. . sect. . sect. , , . sect. . book iv. chap. . sect . . sect. . sect. . sect. . sect. . humane underst . l. . ch . , . chap. . sect . . book . chap. . sect . . ib. sect . . sect. , . book chap. sect. . christianity not myst. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . ad. attic. . . ed. r s. acad. . . de leg. l. . c. . chrys. hom. de resurrect . isidor . pelus . l. . ep. . christianity not myst. p. , . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. ● . answer ● serm. p. . possevin . appar . in genebrard . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . answer to the archbishop , &c. p. . p. . p. . letter of resolut p. . considerat . on the explication , &c. by dr. w. p. . considerat . on the explication by dr. w. p. . answer to the archbishop , p. . a discourse concerning the doctrine of christ's satisfaction; or the true reasons of his sufferings with an answer to the socinian objections. to which is added a sermon concerning the mysteries of the christian faith; preached april . . with a preface concerning the true state of the controversie about christ's satisfaction. by the right reverend father in god, edward lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a discourse concerning the doctrine of christ's satisfaction; or the true reasons of his sufferings with an answer to the socinian objections. to which is added a sermon concerning the mysteries of the christian faith; preached april . . with a preface concerning the true state of the controversie about christ's satisfaction. by the right reverend father in god, edward lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . the second edition. xlvi, [ ], , [ ] p. printed by j. heptinstall, for henry mortlock at the phœnix in st. paul's church-yard, london : . advertisement on c r; and on final leaf. "the mysteries of the christian faith asserted and vindicated" has separate dated title page on p. ; register and pagination are continuous. reproduction of the original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng atonement -- early works to . christianity -- sermons -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - rina kor sampled and proofread - rina kor text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a discourse concerning the doctrine of christ's satisfaction ; or , the true reasons of his sufferings ; with an answer to the socinian objections . to which is added a sermon concerning the mysteries of the christian faith ; preached april . . with a preface concerning the true state of the controversie about christ's satisfaction . by the right reverend father in god , edward lord bishop of worcester . the second edition . london , printed by i. heptinstall , for henry mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , . the preface . the design of the following discourse , is to vindicate the doctrine of christ's satisfaction from the socinian objections . which , that i might do more effectually , i set my self to consider the force and strength of all that crellius had produced in his elaborate answer to grotius . for i have always endeavoured to understand the right state of a question , before i undertook it ; and when i had done that , i have taken as much care , as i could , to represent it truly to others . which made me not a little surprized , when i found our modern socinians in their late pamphlets to charge me as well as others , with not reading their books upon this question , and wholly mistaking the state of the question between the church and them . whereas , if i had not read their books i might peradventure have entertained a more favourable opinion of them , than i now have . but it was upon a diligent consideration of the utmost i could find was said by their best writers , that i so long since satisfied my self , that if the books of the new testament are to be our rule of faith , they were extreamly mistaken . indeed , our unitarians ( as they call themselves ) seem to go another way to work ; which is , by undermining the authority of these books , and so to introduce deism among us ; ( of which i hope to give an account in another discourse . ) but my present business is to lay open the true state of this controversie between us . in their answer to my sermon ( which is here reprinted ) they say , that the unitarians never denied , as i fancy , that jesus christ made himself a voluntary sacrifice for expiation of the sins of mankind . if this be true , i confess , i have mistaken them ; but if the contrary prove very true from their own writings , what do these men deserve , for denying that which they know to be true ? for it is hardly possible to suppose such bold vndertakers , as they are , should be ignorant that socinus absolutely denied , that christ made himself a voluntary sacrifice for expiation of the sins of mankind . for in his answer to volanus , he saith , that he and most others are greatly mistaken when they say , that christ offered up himself to god , when his blood was shed upon the cross : and he positively affirms , that the sacrifice which christ offered was not upon the cross , but in heaven . these passages gave great offence to one niemojevius , a friend of his , who in his first epistle to him , calls it , a horrid paradox , and directly contrary to scripture , and wonders what he meant to write so confidently against the plain testimonies of scripture . socinus in answer to him , saith , it is no more than himself had asserted some years before , in his book de servatore ; and others of their party before him . and he lays down , as his conclusion , which he desires his friend to bring his arguments against , viz. that the expiatory sacrifice of christ for our sins was not performed on the cross , but in heaven . niemojevius brings express places of scripture against this opinion ; and saith , he could by no means excuse such plain opposition to the words of scripture . socinus in his reply persists in saying , that there was no expiatory sacrifice for sin in the death of christ ; and that it ought to be considered as an intervening condition in order to the expiation in heaven , and not otherwise ; but he will by no means allow any proof of any sacrifice of the expiation on the cross. and so the dispute ended . with what face can they now say , that the unitarians never denied this , when socinus not only doth it , but defends it , to the last , and saith , that others had done it before him : which shews , that it was no singular opinion of his own , but that which had been received among the unitarians before him . but say they , the vnitarians ever acknowledged that the lord christ was an expiatory sacrifice for our sins , as may be seen in the racovian catechism . this is indeed a wonderfull proof , they ever acknowledged it , as may be seen in the racovian catechism : were there no unitarians before the racovian catechism ? and was that always the same ? suppose the unitarians before , were of another opinion ; suppose the racovian catechism it self hath been altered in this matter : how can any man of sense be satisfied with such kind of arguments as these ? one would think , they wrote onely for such as would take their words ; they joyn so much confidence with so very little appearance of reason . all that know any thing of these matters , know very well , that the racovian catechism was first framed by smalcius , a strict follower and defender of socinus , from whose opinions he did not vary at all as to this matter , as will appear from all the old editions of it . in which the question is put , what is the reason of the sufferings of christ ? the answer is two fold ; . to be an example of patience . . to confirm the truth of god's promises . and after these are explained , another question is asked , is there no other cause of the death of christ ? the answer is very short , nulla prorsus , none at all . and in the conclusion of that chapter a question is put about sacrifices , and the answer is , that the death of christ was no sacrifice , but only a preparation to it , and a kind of introduction to it , for the sacrifice was offered in heaven and not before . have we not now great evidence to believe from the racovian catechism , that jesus christ made himself a voluntary sacrifice for expiation of the sins of mankind ? but besides the racovian catechism , they referr me to schlictingius and ruarus . for what , i pray ? for what the unitarians always held ? that is impossible , when there is such evident proof to the contrary . i suppose their meaning is , that the racovian catechism , being reviewed by them speaks otherwise . and is this a good proof , that they were always of that mind , because from hence it is evident they have changed it ? and so it will appear to any one that will compare the latter editions with the former . in the last edition i have seen , as it is review'd by schlictingius , ruarus , and others , there is a preface , wherein they confess it is changed in several things from what it was , when it was first published by moscorovius , a. d. , and yet the unitarians were still of the same mind , although some more softning expressions were for meer shame thought fit to be inserted . in this correct edition , the question is put , why was it necessary for christ to suffer as he did ? and the answer is twofold ; . that christ suffered for our sins by god's appointment , and underwent a cruel death as a sacrifice of expiation . who could imagine this to be the racovian catechism still ? . because those who are to be saved by him are subject to the like sufferings . this is somewhat a dark reason ; but the former is that which we are to consider . christ , say they , suffer'd for the sins of mankind , and was a sacrifice of expiation by his death . what can we desire more ? shall we always maintain disputes about words , when we agree in sense ? no , that is not the case , but we may seem to agree in words and differ in sense . that therefore must be more strictly examined . but because they sometimes seem to be displeased that we take their opinion from foreign writers , ( since they here set up for themselves and are so able to express their own sense ) and because they refer me to their own late prints in the english tongue , therefore i shall apply my self to them , to find out what their true sense in this matter is . and they seem freely to tell us what they deny and what they affirm . . they deny that this sacrifice was by way of true and proper satisfaction or full and adequate payment to the justice of god. . they affirm , that this sacrifice was only an oblation , or application to the mercy of god. in another place they complain , that very few of their adversaries have really understood what they affirm or deny concerning the causes or effects of our saviour's death . and they say , the question is only this , whether the lord christ offer'd himself as such a sacrifice , oblation or price as might be made to the justice of god , by way of equivalent for what we should have suffer'd ; or was an oblation or satisfaction as all former sacrifices under the law were , to the mercy of god by way of humble suit and deprecation ? so that they will no longer dispute with us , about the death of christ being an expiatory sacrifice for the sins of mankind ; and so this point seems wholly gained . but we must have a care of being deceived by them . for the scripture was too clear and full to be born down by the authority or evasions of socinus ; and therefore they found it necessary to comply in terms , as long as they could keep to their own notions under them . but what is the true meaning of an expiatory sacrifice to the mercy of god ? if it be no more but as a condition intervening , socinus would not allow that to make an expiatory sacrifice , and therein he was in the right . the main point then between us seems to be whether the death of christ had respect to the justice or to the mercy of god ? and here we must consider what they understand by the justice of god. . they say , that almighty god as king and proprietor of all persons and things , can forgive any offence or all offences , even without repentance or amendment , nor is it contrary to his justice so to do . . that it is not the justice of god , by which he is prompted to punish sinners , but his holiness and wisdom , and that justice hath no other share or interest in punishment , but only to see that punishment be not misplaced , and that it do not exceed the offence . . that god could not ( justly or wisely ) substitute an innocent and well deserving person to undergo punishment , properly so called in the place of the unrighteous and worthless , because it is of the nature of justice not to misplace punishments . . that christ could not offer himself freely for us to undergo the punishment due to us , nor could god accept of it , or allow it : because it is of the very essence of justice not to misplace punishment and not to exceed the desert of the offence , which they say are the two things that constitute the nature of punitive justice . in another place , they say , that christ made himself an oblation , an expiatory sacrifice on the altar of the cross for our sins . but his sufferings were not ( as trinitarians teach ) designed as a punishment laid on him in our stead , because punishment is the evil of suffering inflicted for the evil of doing ; but christ having done no sin ; what he underwent was only labour and suffering and no punishment . and again they say , the oblation was not made to the justice , but to the mercy of god. but the sufferings of christ being graciously accepted by god , as an intercession on our behalf , god was satisfied with them , and this , they say , is the proper notion of satisfaction . the same they repeat in other places . and if no more were to be regarded but meer words , this controversie were at an end ; for they own christ's death to be an expiatory sacrifice for the sins of mankind , and that he made by his sufferings satisfaction to god. but i shall now make it appear , that whatever they pretend , they do really own no such thing as the death of christ being an expiatory sacrifice for the sins of mankind . however , we have this advantage by these concessions , that the scriptures are yielded to be on our side , and that they are forced to speak as we do , whatsoever their meaning be . but that they do not own any proper expiatory sacrifice in the death of christ , will best appear by an account of the rise and progress of this controversie , and of the true state of it . the first rise of it was from the multitudes of places of scripture , which attribute all the proper effects of an expiatory sacrifice to the death of christ. and that by those who best understood for what end it was that christ suffer'd , and had no intention to deceive or to amuse mankind , i mean our saviour and his apostles . our blessed saviour himself saith , that the son of man came to give his life a ransom for many . a ransom as to what ? surely not as to the mercy of god. but christ's death was a ransom as it was an expiatory sacrifice ; and if the one respects the mercy of god , the other must do so too . they may say , the ransom is from the punishment of sin , but this ransom might be made as to the mercy of god , which delivers from it . but a ransom is something which is paid or laid down as a price of redemption ; and was very well understood in that sense among the jews ; who all knew that by their law , the blood of the sacrifices was appointed to be a ransom for their souls . for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. to which the apostle refers , when he saith , that without shedding of blood there is no remission . so that hereby the jews understood these things , ( . ) that there was a punishment due to their sins , from which they could expect no deliverance but by the blood of sacrifices as a ransom or price of redemption for them . ( . ) that as the punishment became due by the law , and the execution of it was by the iustice of god , so the ransom or price of redemption must be by way of satisfaction to the law , in such a manner as it had appointed . ( . ) that they had no other notion of an expiatory sacrifice , but the offering the blood of the sacrifice for an atonement in order to the averting the just displeasure of god against them for their sins ; and this was that , which they understood by expiation or remission of sins . ( . ) that the expiation did not depend upon the sacrifice , as an intervening condition , as to the party who thereby performed an act of obedience , but upon the nature of the sacrifice which was offer'd to god. for , whatever had been required , the obedience had been the same ; but here the great force is laid on the blood being offer'd for expiation . ( . ) that however the mercy of god was seen both in the appointing and accepting the ransom ; yet the expiatory sacrifice was never understood by them to respect the mercy of god , but his just displeasure against their sins . what strange language would it have been thought among the jews to offer an expiatory sacrifice to the mercy of god ? but men that bring in new doctrines , must make a new sense of words and phrases ; or else they can never reconcile them to each other . and it is a mighty advantage to our cause , that we understand the expressions of the new testament with respect to these matters , no otherwise than the jews understood them , among whom they were spoken ; and who had their own law to interpret them by . our present unitarians do not deny that the sacrifices under the law had an immediate respect to god ; but they say , it was not by way of satisfaction to the justice of god , but by way of application to the mercy of god , by way of humble suit and deprecation . but if there were such a sanction of the law , whereby an obligation to punishment did follow the offences forbidden by it ; if the iustice of god were concerned to see the punishment executed , if the law were not satisfied ; if the sacrifice of atonement or expiation were designed for satisfaction of the law ; and god did accept it for that end , then it follows , that these sacrifices were intended not meerly as rites of intercession and deprecation to the mercy of god ; but by way of satisfaction to his justice . for was it not iustice in god to punish offenders against his law ? was it not iustice in god to require a satisfaction to his law when it was broken ? was it not iustice in god , when he had declared that he would accept a sacrifice of atonement , to require that instead of the punishment of the offenders , and to punish those who wilfully neglected or despised it ? how then , can they pretend that these sacrifices had no respect to the justice of god ? we never read in scripture any expressions , as to the methods of supplication like this , that the blood of the sacrifices was to expiate for their sins ▪ and that it was given for an atonement for the soul. is it ever said , that prayer and supplication was to make a sacrifice of atonement , and that it was appointed for that end ? prayer is a natural and necessary duty and a condition in order to pardon , but the life and force of that lies in a man 's own breast , in the inward and fervent desires of the soul : but a sacrifice of atonement was a thing of another nature , the blood was to be shed and then offer'd up to god , as a sacrifice of atonement , which god himself had appointed for that end ; and without which no remission of sins was to be expected . but was not this from the mercy of god to appoint such a sacrifice of atonement ? no doubt of it , and so it was that he would accept it for such an end. but that is by no means the present question ; for it is , whether the sacrifice , which god appointed for an atonement , was only a rite of supplication to the mercy of god ? in one sense a sacrifice of atonement is a way of deprecation : but then it relates to the wrath and displeasure of god ; for it is that which god hath appointed as the means of averting his wrath , and preventing the execution of his iustice. but the main question is , whether the sacrifice of atonement as to god's just wrath and displeasure , be not a real satisfaction to his justice ? for if he be justly displeased , and might justly punish , but doth accept a sacrifice of expiation in stead of it , although there be a concurrence of mercy , yet there is a real atonement to his iustice : unless they will say , the iustice of god is not concerned in preserving the honour of his laws . but of this more afterwards . if an expiatory sacrifice under the law were nothing else but a solemn rite of supplication to the mercy of god it would take away the typical nature of those sacrifices , and especially those on the day of expiation . for what doth a rite of supplication and intercession represent as a figure of something to come ? why were the goat and the bullock for the sin-offering to be presented alive before the lord ; then their blood to be shed , and to be sprinkled before the mercy-seat and upon the altar ? why was the scape-goat to have the sins of the people confessed over him and put upon his head ? why was the flesh of the bullock and goat that was sacrificed burnt without the camp ? do these look like applications to the mercy of god , by way of humble suit and deprecation ? but the apostle to the hebrews tells us , these things were a figure representing christ offering himself up to god by his own blood , who having obtain'd eternal redemption for us enter'd into the holy place ( in heaven ) whose blood was far more effectual for the purging away of sin , than the blood of bulls and goats could be ; and to answer to the burning of the flesh of the sacrifices without the camp , that he might sanctify the people with his own blood , he suffer'd without the gate . was all this nothing but an oblation to the mercy of god by way of prayer and intercession ? why all this ceremony about an oblation of prayer , which depends on the hearty devotion of him that makes it ? why did not the high-priest enter without blood into the holy of holies , if it were nothing but a rite of supplication ? why was the blood sprinkled upon the altar for atonement , after he came out from the mercy-seat ? why was the flesh burnt without the camp ? was that for intercession too ? but saith the correct racovian catechism , all this doth not prove that the whole expiatory sacrifice of christ was performed on the cross , but only that it was begun there and perfected in heaven . this doth evidently prove , that the blood of christ was shed for the expiation of sins , and that as the high-priest went into the holy of holies with the blood of the sacrifice of atonement there to make intercession ; so christ as our high-priest with his blood shed enter'd in heaven , where he ever lives to make intercession for us . but say they , the sacrifices under the law did not make any proper satisfaction for sin , therefore neither did christ's sacrifice . so that at last they confess that christ's death was no proper expiatory sacrifice ; for whatsoever is so , must make satisfaction to the law and iustice of god. but say they , the sacrifices were not offer'd for payment but for remission . i say , they were a payment in order to remission . i mean such a payment as the law appointed and god accepted , and that is true and proper satisfaction . but we must distinguish a legal payment and satisfaction , from pecuniary payment to a creditor . and all the confusion these men have run into , hath been from want of distinguishing these ; of which i have treated at large in the following discourse . thus far it appears that they have by no means allow'd the death and sufferings of christ to have been an expiatory sacrifice in the sense of the iews , as it was a ransom or price of redemption . but there is something farther to be consider'd in an expiatory sacrifice , and that is a substitution in place of the offenders . for that the jews and others understood by a sacrifice of expiation ; when the punishment of one was laid upon another in order to his deliverance . not that the very same was to be undergone , as appears by the sacrifice of atonement on the day of expiation ; which was not that which the people of israel were to have suffer'd without it , but it was what god appointed and accepted instead of their punishment : and therefore the scape-goat is said to bear upon him all the iniquities of the people , which was supposed to be so much charged with them , that he that let him go was to purify himself before he could come into the camp. so in the sin-offering for the congregation , the elders were to lay their hands upon the head of the bullock before the lord : and in other sacrifices the rule among the jews was , that none but the owner was to lay on his hands ; to shew on whose account he was offer'd up as a sacrifice of atonement . for here the right of dominion was sufficient for substitution ; but in a rational agent , consent is necessary to make it just. having thus seen , what the true nature of an expiatory sacrifice was , we must now consider , how far this can agreee with the suffering of christ for the sins of mankind . and we have already found our saviour himself declaring that he gave his life a ransom for many . but that is not all ; for , when he instituted his last supper for a commemoration of his suffering , he said , for this is my blood of the new testament which is shed for many for the remission of sins . his disciples , to whom he spake these words , must understand them as the jews commonly did ; when the blood of a sacrifice was offer'd for an atonement in order to the remission of sins . and one great end of his preaching was to declare that he came into the world with that design ; that it was the will of god he should suffer , and that he came to do his will. and therefore speaking of laying down his life , he saith , no man taketh it away from me but i lay it down of my self . i have power to lay it down and i have power to take it again . this commandment have i received of my father . so that here we have god's appointment of such a sacrifice of atonement for mankind ; christ's free and voluntary consent for the undertaking it , and a translation of the punishment of our sins upon him ; which st. paul calls god's making him to be sin for us who knew no sin ; which shews that the sufferings of christ were on the account of our sins , being laid upon him by his own consent as our sin-offering ; or a sacrifice of expiation for our sins . and in another place saith , that he hath redeemed us from the curse of the law , being made a curse for us . how could he be made a curse for us in order to the redeeming us from the curse of the law ; if his sufferings were only a meer voluntary condition in order to his exaltation , without bearing the burden of our sins ? but st. paul adds , that we have redemption through his blood , the forgiveness of sins . that , god hath set him forth as a propitiation through faith in his blood , to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins . that , when we were enemies , we were reconciled to god by the death of his son. that he hath given himself for us , an offering and sacrifice to god. that , he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself ; and that he was once offer'd to bear the sins of many . that , he gave himself a ransom for all . neither was it st. paul only who speaks after this manner ; but st. peter saith , that his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree . that christ also hath once suffered for sins , the just for the unjust . and st. john , that the blood of jesus christ his son cleanseth us from all sin , and that god sent his son to be the propitiation for our sins . so that christ and his apostles agree in the same manner of expression ; and great weight is laid upon christ's being a propitiation for us , and our hopes of remission of sins and the favour of god depend upon it . what now is to be said to all these places of scripture ? were they designed only to humor and impose upon the credulity of mankind by telling them of such an expiatory sacrifice in the death of christ , which never was , nor could be , being repugnant to the iustice of god ? for christ , say they , being innocent could not suffer the punishment of our sins , and god being just could not accept of it , although he freely offer'd himself as a sacrifice for our sins . doth this agree with the force and design of all these expressions ? had not christ the power and will to offer up himself as a sacrifice of propitiation to god ? and where lies the injustice of accepting such a sacrifice which he freely offer'd ? but it could not be , say they , by way of punishment for our sins . what then is the meaning of all those places , wherein he is said to bear our sins and to suffer in our stead , the just for the unjust ? what is this but to contradict the tenour and scope of the new testament with respect to the death of christ ; and to turn their sense quite another way from what they were thought to signifie at that time ? which is no reasonable way of interpreting scripture . do they deny that christ suffered , what we say he did ? no ; that they dare not do . but they say , what he underwent was only labour and suffering ; but not the punishment of our iniquities . then , i say , it could be no expiatory sacrifice , which implies a substitution , and the contrary appears by the many places of scripture already mentioned , wherein our sins and the sufferings of christ are joined together . thus we see the true rise of this controversie was from the many places of scripture , which seem very plain and clear in this matter ; and therefore i shall now give an account of the progress of it . f. socinus seeing the bent of the scripture so much against him , sets himself to the finding out ways to avoid the force of them . . to those which speak of christ's being a ransom or price of redemption for us , he answers , that these expressions are to be understood only metaphorically , and christ's death being an intervening condition in order to our deliverance , it is therefore called , a price of redemption . and to the same purpose , the correct racovian catechism ; only there it is added , that god did accept of the death of christ as a most acceptable sacrifice . but not by way of satisfaction or payment of our debts , because he as a sacrifice was given by god himself ; but that he might give us the greater assurance of pardon and eternal life . so that here we have the true state of this matter before us ; viz. whether the death of christ , when it is said to be a ransom or price of redemption for us , is only to be looked on as a hard condition on his side intervening , or as a proper sacrifice of atonement , which god had appointed , for the expiation of sins ? the question is not , whether god appointed or accepted him , for that we have allowed in all sacrifices of atonement by the law of moses ; but whether his sufferings were not required in order to the satisfaction of divine iustice for the sins of mankind ; not by way of strict payment , as in case of debts ; but by a legal satisfaction to the justice of god as it is concerned in the honour of his laws . our unitarians grant , that christ was a ransom and price of redemption for us ; but they deny , that he was an adequate price , or a sacrifice to the justice of god. but still they run upon the notion of debts and payments , as though there were no other notion of justice and satisfaction but between creditors and debtors ; or as if their notions of these things were rather taken from the shops than the schools . and the monstrous contradiction they conclude the charge of our doctrine with , is , that god freely pardons the whole debt of sin , and yet hath been infinitely over-paid for both in the death and other sufferings of the lord christ. but in the following discourse , i have endeavoured to lay open this mistake , by shewing , that debts and punishments are of a different nature ; and therefore the satisfaction in one case is not to be measured by the other . but i shall not here anticipate the reader , as to what follows ; but i shall take notice of what they say , which seems to relate to this matter . almighty god , say they , as king and proprietor of all persons and things , can forgive any offence or all offences even without repentance or amendment , nor is it contrary to his justice so to do . this is a very strange assertion . for then there is no obligation on god's part in point of iustice to punish the most impenitent and incorrigible offenders . but there is a great deal of difference , between making the exercise of punitive or vindictive justice necessary upon every offence , and saying that the iustice of god doth not require that any offences should be punished . the former makes iustice in god to proceed by a natural necessity , which would leave no place for mercy , nor any satisfaction by a mediator , for that must suppose liberty and relaxation , as to the executive part of iustice. and if god must punish sinners as they deserve , there can be no stop to the execution of iustice short of annihilation ; for our very beings are the gift of god which we have deserved to be deprived of . but on the other side , to say , that the justice of god doth not require the punishment of any offences without repentance or amendement , is to overthrow any such thing as punitive justice in god ; by which i do not mean , the actual execution of it , and the due measures which belong to it , but the will to punish obstinate and impenitent sinners . and that results from his hatred and abhorrency of evil , and his just government of the world. for how can any men , who believe that god is really displeased with the wickedness of men , and that he is a iust and righteous governour , ever think that it is not repugnant to his iustice to forgive all offences without repentance or amendment ? how can his hatred of sin and the iustice of his government be reconciled with the impunity of the most obstinate offenders ? is there no such thing as iustice to himself and to his laws ; which lies in a just vindication of his honour and of his laws from contempt ? and who can be guilty of greater contempt of him , than those who persist in their wickedness without repentance or amendment ? and after all , is it not contrary to his justice to forgive such as these , because he is absolute lord and proprietor of all persons and things ? this might signifie something , if we could imagine god to be nothing but almighty power without justice : but if his justice be as essential an attribute as his omnipotency , we must not so much as suppose the exercise of one without the other . but they do not deny , that it is inconsistent with the wisdom and holiness of god to let the incorrigible and impenitent escape unpunished , or to forgive sin without repentance or amendment . but if the wisdom and holiness of god will not permit the impunity of impenitent sinners , is it not just in god to punish them ? not barely as to the degree and desert of punishment ; but as to the will of punishing them according to their merits ? whence doth their punishment come ? is it not from the will of god ? is that will just or not ? if the will to punish be just ? whence comes it to be so ? from the wisdom and holiness of god ? then punitive justice , when it is agreeable to god's wisdom and holiness , is a proper divine attribute as well as they . and they must have strange notions of punitive justice , who would separate it from them . but justice , they say , hath no other share or interest in punishment , but only to see that punishment be not misplac'd , and that it do not exceed the offence . we are far from denying these things to belong to the measures in the exercise of punitive justice : but whence comes punitive justice to belong to god ? is it not because it is just in him to punish offenders according to those measures ? and whence comes this , but from that universal justice in god , which is always joyned with his wisdom and holiness : and implies an universal rectitude in all he doth ? and from thence it comes that all the measures of iustice are observed by him in the punishment of the greatest offenders . now this universal justice in god is that , whereby he not only punishes obstinate and impenitent sinners , but he takes care of preserving the honour of his laws . and therefore , although almighty god out of his great mercy were willing that penitent sinners should be forgiven ; yet it was most agreeable thereto , that it should be done in such a manner as to discourage mankind from the practice of sin , by the same way by which he offers forgiveness ; and for this end , it pleased god in his infinite wisdom and goodness to send his son to become a sacrifice of propitiation for the sins of mankind ; which being freely undertaken by him , there was no breach in the measures of punitive justice with respect to him ; and so by his death he offered up himself as a full , perfect and sufficient sacrifice , oblation and satisfaction for the sins of mankind . and this is that doctrine of the satisfaction of christ which we own and defend . but these bold assertions , that god as absolute lord may forgive all offences without repentance , and it is not contrary to his justice so to do ; that , it is not the justice of god which prompts him to punish sinners , arise from too mean and narrow a conception of divine justice ; as though it lay only in the manner of the execution of it . but that there is an essential attribute of justice belonging to the divine nature , appears from hence , that there are some things which are so disagreeable to the divine nature that he cannot do them ; he cannot break his promises , nor deceive mankind to their destruction ; he cannot deny himself , nor pervert that order , or due respects of things to each other , which he hath established in the world. he cannot make it the duty of mankind to dishonour their maker , or to violate the rules of good and evil , so as to make evil good and good evil ; he cannot make murder and adultery to be virtues , nor impiety and wickedness not to deserve punishment . but whence comes all this ? is it that god wants almighty power to do what he pleases ? no doubt , he is supreme lord over all , and hath all things under his will. but there is an essential iustice in god , which is a supreme rule of righteousness , according to which he doth always exercise his power and will. and so moses saith of him , all his ways are perfect , a god of truth , and without iniquity , just and right is he ; and the psalmist , the lord is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works . he not only is so , but he can be no otherwise , for this vniversal righteousness is as great a perfection and attribute of god , as his wisdom , or power . it is not one name which stands for all ; but it is a real and distinct attribute of it self : it is as a rule and measure to the exercise of the rest . and he particularly shews it in all the acts of punitive iustice : so nehemiah ; howbeit thou art just in all that is brought upon us , for thou hast done right , but we have done wickedly . and daniel ; righteousness belongeth unto thee , but unto us confusion of face : for the lord our god is righteous in all his works which he doth , for we obey'd not his voice . and zephaniah ; the just lord is in the midst thereof , he will not do iniquity . from whence it appears that the exercise of punitive iustice is according to the essential iustice or righteousness of the divine nature . and so abraham pleaded with god , shall not the judge of all the earth do right ? i. e. will he not punish according to the righteousness of his nature ? and so abimelech argues from the natural notion he had of god●s righteous nature , lord , wilt thou slay also a righteous nation ? but here the main difficulty which deserves to be cleared is this , how far punitive justice is founded on that universal justice which is an essential attribute of god. for the want of understanding this , hath been the great occasion of so much confusion in the discourses about this matter . and for the clearing of it , these things must be considered ; . that there is a difference between that iustice in god , whereby he hates sin , and that whereby he punishes the sinner . the hatred of sin doth necessarily follow the perfection of his nature . therefore god is said , to hate the wicked ; and evil to be an abomination to him ; to love righteousness and to hate wickedness . but if the punishment of the offender were as necessarily consequent as his hatred of sin , all mankind must suffer as they offend , and there would be no place for mercy in god , nor for repentance in men. but sin in it self is perfectly hatefull to god , there being nothing like god in it ; but man was god's creature and made after his image and likeness ; and however god be displeased with mankind on the account of sin , yet the workmanship of god still remains ; and we continually see that god doth not exercise his punitive iustice according to the measures of their iniquities . and they who plead most for the necessity of punitive iustice , are themselves a demonstration to the contrary ; for they cannot deny , that they are not punished as their iniquities have deserved . and if punitive iustice be necessary in it self it must reach the persons that have deserved to be punished , if there be no relaxation of the severity of it . . that it is very agreeable to the divine justice , to exercise the severity of punitive iustice on obstinate and incorrigible offenders . and this is that whereon the iustice of the punishments of sinners in another world is founded ; because god hath been so mercifull to them here , and used so many ways to reclaim them , and it is the not exercising his punitive iustice upon them in this world , which makes it so much more reasonable in another . for thereby they have shewed their contempt of god and his laws , of his offers of mercy and their wilfull obstinacy in offending him . and the reasonableness of the punishment of such offenders is not denyed by any of our more learned adversaries , as i have shewed in the following discourse from socinus and crellius , and might do from several others . but i need not mention any more , since in the late correct edition of the racovian catechism there is this note , that they have always asserted , that the wicked shall be raised up at the great day to undergo the punishment of their sins , and to be cast into the fire prepared for the devil and his angels . and for this , besides their publick confessions , they quote crellius , schlictingius , volkelius , wolzogenius , &c. and schlictingius saith , the doctrine of future punishments was necessary to be preached , as being part of the christian faith ; and that god's veracity is concerned in the execution of his threatnings . which is a part of natural iustice. and those learned men , who have been thought most favourable to the socinian opinions have declared themselves very frankly as to the justice of the punishment of impenitent sinners . curcellaeus , whom they often mention with respect , saith , the justice of god requires , that he should inflict the punishments he hath threatned on contumacious sinners . and limborch ( whom they sometimes appeal to ) saith , that the justice of god doth not permit the impunity of refractory and impenitent contemners of his grace . because , saith he , god by his declared will hath tied himself up from the exercise of his absolute power ; and his laws would be trampled upon , and his majesty slighted ; nor would god's hatred of sin ever be fully discovered . and therefore the day of wrath is called by st. paul , the revelation of the righteous judgment of god. episcopius saith , that although in such punishments , which depend only on the will of the law-maker , he doth not think , that god in justice is obliged to make good his threatnings , as he is to perform his promises ; ( but that in such cases god is not bound in justice to execute all that the law threatens ; but when he thinks fit to punish , then his justice requires him not to punish beyond the commination ) yet in the case of obstinate and incurable offenders , he doth not deny , that the justice of god requires the rigour of the law to be executed upon them . and he adds , that the day of judgment will fully manifest the justice of god in the threatnings he hath made to impenitent sinners . even vorstius , who was supposed to be too much inclined to the socinian doctrine , owns it to be a part of god's justice to punish wicked and impenitent persons ; that his patience and goodness may not be always contemned with impunity . and afterwards , that although god doth no injury to the offender , if he doth not execute his threatnings ; yet out of regard to the justice of his word , he doth not recede from what he hath declared : but all threatnings under the gospel are conditional ; and none are damned by it , but such as continue in impenitency and unbelief . and in his explication he saith , that where god hath absolutely declared his will to punish in such a manner , he cannot forgive without injustice . but our unitarians speak without any reserve , that it is not the justice of god , which prompts him to punish sinners , and so it is not contrary to his justice to forgive all offences without repentance or amendment . and thus the justice of god is not concerned in the punishments of the great day , although the apostle calls it , the revelation of the righteous judgment of god. and by this the world may see how very far our modern unitarians are from handling this subject more carefully , judiciously and exactly than others ; however one of their own party hath lately affirmed it ; with as much confidence and as little ground as they have done other things . . that it is very agreeable to divine justice to accept of a satisfaction on behalf of the sins of mankind , who do not persist in their evil ways , so that their sins shall be forgiven upon their repentance and amendment . for since the exercise of punitive iustice is not necessary on the persons of the offenders , and since god in this life abates so much of his just severity against them ; he thereby shews , that he doth not proceed with mankind here according to the rigor of his iustice ; but yet , since god hath given to them very just and righteous laws , since those laws have been broken and his authority contemned , it is very just for god to require a sacrifice of atonement for the sins of the world , that man●ind may see that god was justly displeased at them , and that none take incouragement to go on to commit them ; but yet , that upon their hearty repentance and sincere obedience , they may be assured of the remission of sins and the promise of eternal life . all the difficulty now remaining is about christ's suffering in our stead , of which the scripture speaks so fully in the places already mention'd . but we must consider what is answered to them . ii. to those places of scripture which speak of christ's suffering the punishment of our sins ; all that socinus saith , comes to these two things . . that christ suffer'd on the occasion of our sins , and with a design to take away our sins . . that by his sufferings he came to have a power to forgive sins ; and that this is the proper expiation of sin. but by no means that he suffer'd in our stead ; for he hath these words ; ut nihil aliud sit christum pro nobis mortuum esse , quam vice seu loco nostro mortem subiisse , id adeo à veritate abhorret ut nihil magis . which in plain english is , that nothing is more false than that christ suffer'd in our stead . the old editions of the racovian catechism follow socinus , and there the answer to the places which speak of christ's dying for us , is , that they do not signify in our stead ; but for our good . which they are very careful to distinguish , because they think that the latter implies no more than a condition in order to the expiation in heaven ; but the other makes him a true propitiatory sacrifice for our sins . but if christ did not suffer in our stead ; how can they possibly reconcile his undergoing this condition with their own measures of divine iustice ? all they pretend to say , is , that it was labour and suffering but not punishment . which is to speak against the common sense of mankind ; and is a ridiculous piece of stoicism . they say , it was a meer act of dominion as to christ and not of justice . but if there be such an essential attribute as iustice in god , then the exercise of dominion must be regulated by it ; especially where there was nothing but perfect innocency . the case is very different as to the sinful race of mankind , who having the guilt of sin upon them , god may justly exercise his dominion over them as he sees cause ; but he always doth it justly , although the particular reasons may not be within our reach . but here is no guilt of sin consider'd , either of his own , or others ; according to their principles ; and yet they make him to undergo as great sufferings , as we do , who assert that he suffer'd for our sakes in our stead ; which alone gives a reasonable account of it . but in the late correct edition of the racovian catechism they say , the sense of christ's suffering for our sins is twofold , but both come to one at last , . that christ suffered as a sacrifice in our stead ; tanquam victima pro nobis succedanea . how can socinus and the racovian catechism agree ? . that he suffer'd for our good . but they deny any commutation which they say , was not in the expiatory sacrifice among the jews . what doth a substitution differ from a commutation in this case ? but how do suffering in our stead and for our good come all to one at last ? either it must be , that christ did truly suffer in our stead , when he underwent the punishment of our sins in order to our redemption and expiation ; and that is a very good and true sense ; which we readily embrace , and are very well content that they should come all to one : or if the meaning be only , that christ may be said to suffer in our stead , because we have benefit by the consequences of his death ; then his dying is only consider'd as a bare condition and not as a sacrifice in our stead . as to make it plain by an instance ; we all agree that joseph's suffering in egypt was designed by the wise providence of god for the good of his brethren , which they received after his advancement , to which his suffering was an antecedent condition . but can any man say , that he suffer'd in stead of his brethren ? but now if joseph's brethren had been sold for slaves in egypt , and joseph had gone down thither and offer'd himself a prisoner for their deliverance ; this had been truly suffering in their stead , as well as for their advantage . and suppose the king of egypt had agreed with joseph , that if he would become prisoner for his brethren , he would advance him , and he should himself deliver them by his own power ; this doth not at all hinder his suffering in their stead . but if it had no relation to their deliverance by his being made captive himself ; but was only a step to his advancement ; then it cannot be said to be in their stead , although it might turn to their advantage . and so much for the sense of the racovian catechism . but our unitarians fly higher , for they say , . that god could not justly or wisely substitute an innocent person to undergo punishment in place of the guilty . . that christ could not freely offer himself as a sacrifice in our stead , nor could god accept of it , or allow it . so that here we have the true state of this controversie between us , viz. whether christ were a real expiatory sacrifice for the sins of mankind . for , if he could not be substituted in our stead , nor god accept of his offering up himself for us ; all the other expressions are meer words given out on purpose to amuse and deceive us . and this is that which i have undertaken to make out in the following discourse , viz. . that the scripture doth as plainly set forth that christ suffer'd the punishment of our sins and in our stead , as it could do ; and that no expressions could be thought of to that purpose , but might be answered in the same way that they do these . and therefore it is in vain to contend with such men , who are resolved that words and phrases shall signify no otherwise , than they would have them . and yet at last they cannot deny but a kind of substitution is implied as a victima succedanea ; but how ? that he suffer'd for our good and by the occasion of our sins , but not the punishment of them . thus far then we have gained , that the words of scripture are for us ; but say they , what ever the words are , they cannot mean any real punishment , because he was an innocent person . therefore i have shewed ; . that there is no repugnancy in reason , nor to the iustice of god for an innocent person to suffer by his own consent and for so great an end , what the scripture attributes to our saviour . and i have fully answered the arguments brought by our adversaries to prove that god could not justly or wisely substitute an innocent person to suffer for the guilty . . that christ did offer up himself , as an expiatory sacrifice to god in our stead ; and that god did accept and allow of it . which is the design of the three last chapters . and till an answer be given to what i have there discoursed at large , i shall refer the reader to what is already said ; and shall suppose those answers to be sufficient , till i see some better reasons for their opinion in this matter , than i have yet met with , although i have been no stranger to their late writings , as , god willing , they may see on another occasion . e. w. april . . advertisement . there are already published two volumes of sermons , preached upon several occasions , by the right reverend father in god , edward lord bishop of worcester , in octavo : sold by henry mortlock , at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . a third volume will speedily be prepared for the press . a discourse concerning the sufferings of christ. chap. i. i. of the socinian way of interpreting scripture ; and of the uncertainty it leaves us in as to the main articles of faith , manifested by an exposition of gen. . suitable to that way . ii. the state of the controversie in general concerning the sufferings of christ for us . he did not suffer the same we should have done . iii. the grand mistake in making punishments of the nature of debts . iv. the difference between them at large discovered , from the different reason and ends of them . v. the right of punishment in god , proved against crellius , not to arise from mere dominion . vi. the end of punishment not bare compensation , as it is in debts ; what punishment due to an injured person by the right of nature ; proper punishment a result of laws . vii . crellius his great mistake about the end of punishments . viii . not designed for satisfaction of anger as it is a desire of revenge . seneca and lactantius vindicated against crellius . ix . the magistrates interest in punishment distinct from that of private persons . x. of the nature of anger in god , and the satisfaction to be made to it . crellius his great arguments against satisfaction depend on a false notion of god's anger . xi . of the ends of divine punishments . xii . the different nature of them in this and the future state . sir , although the letter i received from your hands contained in it so many mistakes of my meaning and design , that it seemed to be the greatest civility to the writer of it , to give no answer at all to it ; because that could not be done , without the discovery of far more weaknesses in him , than he pretends to find in my discourse : yet the weight and importance of the matter may require a farther account from me , concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ. wherein my design was so far from representing old errors to the best advantage , or to rack my wits to defend them , as that person seems to suggest ; that i aimed at nothing more than to give a true account of what upon a serious enquiry , i judged to be the most natural and genuine meaning of the christian doctrine contained in the writings of the new testament . i. for finding therein such multitudes of expressions , which to an unprejudiced mind attribute all the mighty effects of the love of god to us , to the obedience and sufferings of christ , i began to consider what reason there was why the plain and easie sense of those places must be forsaken , and a remote and metaphorical meaning put upon them . which i thought my self the more obliged to do , because i could not conceive if it had been the design of the scripture , to have delivered the received doctrine of the christian church , concerning the reason of the sufferings of christ , that it could have been more clearly and fully expressed than it is already . so that supposing that to have been the true meaning of the several places of scripture which we contend for ; yet the same arts and subtilties might have been used to pervert it , which are imployed to perswade men that is not the true meaning of them . and what is equally serviceable to truth and falshood , can of it self , have no power on the minds of men to convince them it must be one , and not the other . nay , if every unusual and improper acception of words in the scripture , shall be thought sufficient to take away the natural and genuine sense , where the matter is capable of it , i know scarce any article of faith can be long secure ; and by these arts men may declare that they believe the scriptures , and yet believe nothing of the christian faith. for if the improper , though unusual acception of those expressions of christ's dying for us , of redemption , propitiation , reconciliation by his blood , of his bearing our iniquities , and being made sin and a curse for us , shall be enough to invalidate all the arguments taken from them to prove that which the proper sense of them doth imply , why may not the improper use of the terms of creation and resurrection , as well take away the natural sense of them in the great articles of the creation of the world , and resurection after death ? for if it be enough to prove that christ's dying for us , doth not imply dying in our stead ; because sometimes dying for others imports no more than dying for some advantage to come to them ; if redemption being sometimes used for mere deliverance , shall make our redemption by christ , wholly metaphorical ; if the terms of propitiation , reconciliation , &c. shall lose their force , because they are sometimes used where all things cannot be supposed parallel with the sense we contend for : why shall i be bound to believe that the world was ever created in a proper sense , since those persons against whom i argue , so earnestly contend that in those places in which it seems as proper as any , it is to be understood only in a metaphorical ? if when the world and all things are said to be made by christ , we are not to understand the production but the reformation of the world and all things in it , although the natural sense of the words be quite otherwise ; what argument can make it necessary for me not to understand the creation of the world in a metaphorical sense , when moses delivers to us the history of it ? why may not i understand in the beginning , gen. . for the beginning of the mosaical dispensation , as well as socinus doth in the beginning , john . for the beginning of the evangelical ? and that from the very same argument used by him , viz. that in the beginning is to be understood of the main subject concerning which the author intends to write , and that i am as sure it was in moses concerning the law given by him , as it was in st. iohn concerning the gospel delivered by christ. why may not the creation of the heavens and the earth , be no more than the erection of the jewish polity ? since it is acknowledged , that by new heavens and new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness , no more is understood than a new state of things under the gospel ? why may not the confused chaos import no more than the state of ignorance and darkness under which the world was before the law of moses ? since it is confessed that it signifies in the new testament such a state of the world before the gospel appeared ? and consequently , why may not the light which made the first day be the first tendencies to the doctrine of moses , which being at first divided and scattered , was united afterwards in one great body of laws , which was called the sun , because it was the great director of the iewish nation , and therefore said to rule the day ; as the less considerable laws of other nations are called the moon , because they were to govern those who were yet under the night of ignorance ? why may not the firmament being in the midst of the waters , imply the erection of the jewish state in the midst of a great deal of trouble , since it is confessed , that waters are often taken in scripture in a metaphorical sense for troubles and afflictions ? and the earth appearing out of the waters , be no more but the settlement of that state after its troubles ; and particularly with great elegancy after their passage through the red sea ? and the production of herbs and living creatures , be the great encrease of the people of all sorts , as well those of a meaner rank ( and therefore called herbs ) as those of a higher , that were to live upon the other , and sometimes trample upon them , and therefore by way of excellency called the living creatures ? and when these were multiplied and brought into order , ( which being done by steps and degrees , is said to be finished in several days ) then the state and the church flourished and enjoyed a great deal of pleasure , which was the production of man and woman , and their being placed in paradise : ( for a perfect man , notes a high degree of perfection , and a woman is taken for the church in the revelations ) but when they followed the customs of other nations which were as a forbidden tree to them , then they lost all their happiness and pleasure , and were expell'd out of their own country , and lived in great slavery and misery , which was the curse pronounced against them , for violating the rules of policy established among them . thus you see how small a measure of wit , by the advantage of those ways of interpreting scripture , which the subtilest of our adversaries make use of , will serve to pervert the clearest expressions of scripture to quite another sense than was ever intended by the writer of them . and i assure you , if that rule of interpreting scripture be once allowed ; that if words are ever used in a metaphorical sense , there can be no necessity of understanding them any where in a proper ; there is scarce any thing which you look on as the most necessary to be believed in scripture , but it may be made appear not to be so upon those terms . for by reason of the paucity , and therefore the ambiguity of the original words of the hebrew language , the strange idioms of it , the different senses of the same word in several conjugations , the want of several modes of expression which are used in other languages , and above all the lofty and metaphorical way of speaking used in all eastern countries , and the imitation of the hebrew idioms in the greek translation of the old testament , and original of the new , you can hardly affix a sense upon any words used therein , but a man who will be at the pains to search all possible significations and uses of those words , will put you hard to it , to make good that which you took to be the proper meaning of them . wherefore although i will not deny to our adversaries the praise of subtilty and diligence ; i cannot give them that ( which is much more praise-worthy ) of discretion and sound judgment . for while they use their utmost industry to search all the most remote and metaphorical senses of words , with a design to take off the genuine and proper meaning of them , they do not attend to the ill consequence that may be made of this to the overthrowing those things , the belief of which themselves make necessary to salvation . for by this way the whole gospel may be made an allegory , and the resurrection of christ be thought as metaphorical as the redemption by his death , and the force of all the precepts of the gospel avoided by some unusual signification of the words wherein they are delivered . so that nothing can be more unreasonable than such a method of proceeding , unless it be first sufficiently proved that the matter is not capable of the proper sense , and therefore of necessity the improper only is to be allowed . and this is that which socinus seems after all his pains to pervert the meaning of the places in controversie , to rely on most ; viz. that the doctrine of satisfaction doth imply an impossibility in the thing it self , and therefore must needs be false ; nay , he saith , the infallibility of the revealer had not been enough in this case , supposing that christ had said it , and risen from the dead , to declare his own veracity ; unless he had delivered it by its proper causes and effects , and so shewed the possibility of the thing it self . and the reason , he saith , why they believe their doctrine true , is not barely because god hath said it , but they believe certainly that god hath said it , because they know it to be true ; by knowing the contrary doctrine to be impossible . the controversie then , concerning the meaning of the places in dispute is to be resolved from the nature and reasonableness of the matter contained in them ? for if socinus his reason be answerable to his confidence , if the account we give of the sufferings of christ , be repugnant not only to the justice , goodness and grace of god , but to the nature of the thing ; if it appear impossible , that mankind should be redeemed in a proper sense , or that god should be propitiated by the death of his son as a sacrifice for sin ; if it enervate all the precepts of obedience , and tend rather to justifie sins than those who do repent of them ; i shall then agree , that no industry can be too great in searching authors , comparing places , examining versions , to find out such a sense as may be agreeable to the nature of things , the attributes of god , and the design of christian religion . but if on the contrary , the scripture doth plainly assert those things , from whence our doctrine follows , and without which no reasonable account can be given either of the expressions used therein , or of the sufferings of christ ; if christ's death did immediately respect god as a sacrifice , and was paid as a price for our redemption ; if such a design of his death be so far from being repugnant to the nature of god , that it highly manifests his wisdom , justice and mercy ; if it assert nothing but what is so far from being impossible , that it is very reconcileable to the common principles of reason , as well as the free-grace of god in the pardon of sin ; if , being truly understood , it is so far from enervating , that it advances highly all the purposes of christian religion , then it can be no less than a betraying one of the grand truths of the christian doctrine , not to believe ours to be the true sense of the places in controversie . and this is that which i now take upon me to maintain . ii. for our clearer proceeding herein , nothing will be more necessary , than to understand the true state of the controversie ; which hath been rendred more obscure by the mistakes of some , who have managed it with greater zeal than judgment ; who have asserted more than they needed to have done , and made our adversaries assert much less than they do : and by this means have shot over their adversaries heads , and laid their own more open to assaults . it is easie to observe , that most of socinus his arguments are levelled against an opinion , which few who have considered these things do maintain , and none need to think themselves obliged to do it ; which is , that christ paid a proper and rigid satisfaction for the sins of men , considered under the notion of debts , and that he paid the very same , which we ought to have done ; which in the sense of the law , is never called satisfaction , but strict payment . against this socinus disputes from the impossibility of christ's paying the very same that we were to have paid ; because our penalty was eternal death , and that as the consequent of inherent guilt , which christ neither did nor could undergo . neither is it enough to say , that christ had undergone eternul death , unless he had been able to free himself from it ; for the admission of one to pay for another , who could discharge the debt in much less time than the offenders could , was not the same which the law required . for that takes no notice of any other than the persons who had sinned ; and if a mediator could have paid the same , the original law must have been disjunctive ; viz. that either the offender must suffer , or another for him ; but then the gospel had not been the bringing in of a better covenant , but a performance of the old . but if there be a relaxation or dispensation of the first law ; then it necessarily follows , that what christ paid , was not the very same which the first law required : for what need of that , when the very same was paid that was in the obligation ? but if it be said , that the dignity of the person makes up , what wanted in the kind or degree of punishment ; this is a plain confession that it is not the same , but something equivalent , which answers the ends of the sanction , as much as the same would have done , which is the thing we contend for . besides , if the very same had been paid in the strict sense , there would have followed a deliverance ipso facto ; for the release immediately follows the payment of the same : and it had been injustice to have required any thing further , in order to the discharge of the offender , when strict and full payment had been made of what was in the obligation . but we see that faith and repentance , and the consequences of those two , are made conditions on our parts , in order to the enjoying the benefit of what christ hath procured ; so that the release is not immediate upon the payment , but depends on a new contract , made in consideration of what christ hath done and suffered for us . if it be said , that by christ's payment , we become his , and he requires these conditions of us ; besides the contrariety of it to the scriptures , which make the conditions to be required by him to whom the payment was made ; we are to consider , that these very persons assert , that christ paid all for us , and in our name and stead ; so that the payment by christ was by a substitution in our room ; and if he paid the same which the law required , the benefit must immediately accrue to those in whose name the debt was paid . for what was done in the name of another , is all one to the creditor , as if it had been done by the debtor himself . but above all things , it is impossible to reconcile the freeness of remission , with the full payment of the very same which was in the obligation . neither will it serve to say , that though it was not free to christ , yet it was to us . for the satisfaction and remission must respect the same person ; for christ did not pay for himself , but for us , neither could the remission be to him . christ therefore is not consider'd in his own name , but as acting in our stead ; so that what was free to him , must be to us ; what was exactly paid by him , it is all one as if it had been done by us : so that it is impossible the same debt should be fully paid and freely forgiven . much less will it avoid the difficulty in this case to say , that it was a refusable payment : for it being supposed to be the very same , it was not in justice refusable ; and however not in equity , if it answer the intention of the law , as much as the suffering of the offenders had done ; and the more it doth that , the less refusable it is . and although god himself found out the way , that doth not make the pardon free , but the designation of the person who was to pay the debt . thus when our adversaries dispute against this opinion , no wonder if they do it successfully ; but this whole opinion is built upon a mistake , that satisfaction must be the payment of the very same ; which while they contend for , they give our adversaries too great an advantage , and make them think they triumph over the faith of the church , when they do it only over the mistake of some particular persons . but the foundation of this mistake , lies in the consideration of punishment , under the notion of debts , and that satisfaction therefore must be by strict payment in rigor of law ; but how great that mistake is , will appear in the subsequent discourse . but it cannot but be wondred at , that the very same persons who consider sins , as debts which must be strictly satisfied for , do withal contend for the absolute necessity of this satisfaction : whereas socinus his arguments would hold good , if sins were only considered as debts , and god as the mere creditor of punishment ; he might as freely part with his own right without satisfaction , as any creditor may forgive what summ he pleases to a person indebted to him ; and no reason can be brought to the contrary , from that notion of sins , why he may not do it . but if they be considered , with a respect to god's government of the world , and the honour of his laws , then some further account may be given , why it may not be consistent with that , to pass by the sins of men , without satisfaction made to them . iii. and because the mistake in this matter , hath been the foundation of most of the subsequent mistakes on both sides , and the discovery of the cause of errors , doth far more to the cure of them , than any arguments brought against them ; and withal , the true understanding of the whole doctrine of satisfaction depends upon it , i shall endeavour to make clear the notion under which our sins are considered ; for upon that depends the nature of the satisfaction which is to be made for them . for while our adversaries suppose , that sins are to be looked on under the notion of debts in this debate , they assert it to be wholly free for god to remit them , without any satisfaction . they make the right of punishment merely to depend on god's absolute dominion ; and that all satisfaction must be considered under the notion of compensation , for the injuries done to him , to whom it is to be made . but if we can clearly shew a considerable difference between the notion of debts and punishments , if the right of punishment doth not depend upon mere dominion , and that satisfaction by way of punishment , is not primarily intended for compensation , but for other ends , we shall make not only the state of the controversie much clearer , but offer something considerable towards the resolution of it . the way i shall take for the proof of the difference between debts and punishments , shall be using the other for the arguments for it . for besides , that those things are just in matter of debts , which are not so in the case of punishments ; as , that it is lawfull for a man to forgive all the debts which are owing him by all persons , though they never so contumaciously refuse payment , but our adversaries will not say so in the case of sins ; for although they assert , that the justice of god doth never require punishment in case of repentance , yet withal they assert , that in case of impenitency , it is not only agreeable , but due to the nature and decrees ; and therefore to the rectitude and equity of god not to give pardon but if this be true , then there is an apparent difference between the notion of debts and punishments ; for the impenitency doth but add to the g●eatness of the debt : and will they say , it is only in god's power to remit small debts , but he must punish the greatest ? what becomes then of god's absolute liberty to part with h●s own right ? will not this shew more of his kindness to pardon the greater , rather than lesser offenders ? but if there be something in the nature of the thing , which makes it not only just , but necessary for impenitent sinners to be punished , as crellius after socinus frequently acknowledges , then it is plain , that sins are not to be considered merely as debts , for that obstinacy and impenitency is only punished as a greater degree of sin , and therefore as a greater debt . and withal , those things are lawfull in the remission of debts , which are unjust in the matter of punishments ; as it is lawfull for a creditor , when two persons are considered in equal circumstances , to remit one , and not the other ; nay , to remit the greater debt , without any satisfaction , and to exact the lesser to the greatest extremity ; but it is unjust in matter of punishments , where the reason and circumstances are the same , for a person who hath committed a crime of very dangerous consequence , to escape unpunished , and another who hath been guilty of far less to be severely executed . besides these considerations , i say , i shall now prove the difference of debts and punishments , from those two things whereby things are best differenced from each other ; viz. the different reason , and the different end of them . iv. ( . ) the different reason of debts and punishments : the reason of debts is dominion and property , and the obligation of them , depends upon voluntary contracts between parties ; but the reason of punishments is justice and government , and depends not upon mere contracts , but the relation the person stands in to that authority to which he is accountable for his actions . for if the obligation to punishment , did depend upon mere contract , then none could justly be punished , but such who have consented to it by an antecedent contract : if it be said , that a contract is implied , by their being in society with others ; that is as much as i desire to make the difference appear , for in case of debts , the obligation depends upon the voluntary contract of the person ; but in case of punishments , the very relation to government , and living under laws doth imply it . and the right of punishment depends upon the obligation of laws , where the reason of them holds , without any express contract , or superiority of one over another ; as in the case of violation of the law of nations , that gives right to another nation to punish the infringers of it . otherwise wars could never be lawfull between two nations , and none could be warrantable , but those of a prince against his rebellious subjects , who have broken the laws themselves consented expresly to . besides , in case of debts every man is bound to pay , whether he be call'd upon or no ; but in case of punishments , no man is bound to betray or accuse himself . for the obligation to payment in case of debt ariseth from the injury sustained by that particular person , if another detains what is his own from him ; but the obligation to punishment , arises from the injury , the publick sustains by the impunity of crimes , of which the magistrates are to take care ; who by the dispensing of punishments , do shew that to be true which grotius asserts , that if there be any creditor to be assigned in punishment , it is the publick good : which appears by this , that all punishments are proportioned , according to the influence the offences have upon the publick interest ; for the reason of punishment is not because a law is broken , but because the breach of a law tends to dissolve the community , by infringing the authority of the laws , and the honour of those who are to take care of them . for if we consider it , the measure of punishments is in a well ordered state , taken from the influence which crimes have upon the peace and interest of the community . no man questions , but that malice , pride and avarice , are things really as bad as many faults , that are severely punished by humane laws , but the reason these are not punished is , because they do not so much injury to the publick interest , as theft and robbery do . besides , in those things wherein the laws of a nation are concerned , the utmost rigor is not used in the preventing of crimes , or the execution of them when committed , if such an execution may endanger the publick more than the impunity of the offenders may do . and there are some things which are thought sit to be forbidden , where the utmost means are not used to prevent them ; as merchants are forbidden to steal customs , but they are not put under an oath not to do it . and when penalties have been deserved , the execution of them hath been deferred , till it may be most for the advantage of the publick : as ioab's punishment till solomon's reign , though he deserved it as much in david's . so that the rule commonly talked of , fiat justitia & pereat mundus , is a piece of pedantry , rather than true wisdom ; for whatever penalty inflicted brings a far greater detriment to the publick , than the forbearance of it , is no piece of justice to the state , but the contrary ; the greatest law , being the safety and preservation of the whole body . by which it appears , that in humane laws , the reason of punishment is not , that such an action is done , but because the impunity in doing it , may have a bad influence on the publick interest ; but in debts , the right of restitution depends upon the injury received by a particular person , who looks at no more than the reparation of his loss by it . v. we are now to consider , how far these things will hold in divine laws , and what the right of punishment doth result from there . for crellius , the subtillest of our adversaries , knowing of how great consequence the resolution of this is , in the whole controversie of satisfaction , vehemently contends , that the right of punishment doth result from god's absolute dominion , and therefore he is to be considered as the offended party , and not as governor in the right of inflicting punishment ; for which his first argument is , that our obedience is due to god's law , on the account of his dominion ; but when that is not performed , the penalty succeeds in its room , and therefore that doth belong to god on the same account : his other arguments are , from the compensation of injuries due to the offended party , and from god's anger against sin , in which he is to be consider'd as the offended party : these two latter will be answered under the next head ; the first i am to examine here . he therefore tells us , that the right of punishment belongs to god's dominion , because the reason of his government of mankind is , because he is the lord of them . but , for our better understanding this , we are to consider , although the original right of government doth result from god's dominion ; for therefore our obedience is due , because of his sovereignty over us ; yet when god takes upon him the notion of a governour , he enters into a new relation with his creatures , distinct from the first as mere lord. for he is equally lord of all to whom he gives a being , but he doth not require obedience upon equal terms , nor governs them by the same laws : dominion is properly shewed in the exercise of power ; but when god gives laws according to which he will reward and punish , he so far restrains the exercise of his dominion to a subserviency to the ends of government . if we should suppose , that god governs the world merely by his dominion , we must take away all rewards and punishments ; for then the actions of men , would be the mere effects of irresistable power , and so not capable of rewards and punishments ; for there could be neither of these , where mens actions are capable of the differences of good and evil , and that they cannot be , if they be the acts of god's dominion , and not of their own . but if god doth not exercise his full dominion over rational creatures , it is apparent that he doth govern them under another notion than as mere lord , and the reason of punishment is not to be taken from an absolute right which god doth not make use of , but from the ends and designs of government , which are his own honour , the authority of his laws , and the good of those whom he doth govern . and crellius is greatly mistaken , when he makes punishment to succeed in the place of the right of obedience ; for it is only the desert of punishment , which follows upon the violation of that right ; and as we assert , that the right of obedience is derived from god's sovereignty , so we deny not , but the desert of punishment is from the violation of it ; but withal we say , that the obligation to punishment depends upon the laws , and god's right to inflict punishment ( laws being supposed ) is immediately from that government which he hath over mankind : for otherwise , if the whole right of punishment did still depend upon god's dominion , and the first right of sovereignty , then all sins must have equal punishments , because they are all equal violations of the fundamental right of obedience ; then it were at liberty for god to punish a greater sin , with a less punishment ; and a lesser sin , with a greater : and lastly , this would make the punishment of sin , a mere arbitrary thing in god ; for there would be no reason of punishment , but what depended upon god's mere will ; whereas the reason of punishment in scripture is drawn from a repugnancy of sin to the divine purity and holiness , and not merely from god's power or will to punish ; but if that were all the reason of it , there would be no repugnancy in the nature of the thing for the most vitious person to be rewarded , and the most pious to be made everlastingly miserable . but who ever yet durst say or think so ? from whence it appears that the relation between sin and punishment is no result of god's arbitrary will ; but it is founded in the nature of the things ; so that as it is just for god to punish offenders , so it would be unjust to punish the most innocent person without any respect to sin . but if the right of punishment depends merely on god's dominion , i cannot understand why god may not punish when and whom , and in what manner he pleaseth ; without any impeachment of his justice , and therefore it is to be wonder'd at , that the same persons who assert the right of punishment to be merely in god's dominion , should yet cry out of the injustice of one person being punished for anothers faults ; for why may not god exercise his dominion in this case ? yes , say they , he may his dominion , but he cannot punish , because punishment supposes guilt , and cannot be just without it ; how far that reaches , will be examined afterwards ; at present , we take notice of the contradiction to themselves which our adversaries are guilty of , that they may serve their own hypothesis , for when we dispute with them , against absolute remission without satisfaction , then they contend that the right of punishment is a mere act of dominion , and god may part with his right , if he please ; but when they dispute with us against the translation of punishment from one to another , then they no longer say that the right of punishment is an act of dominion , but that it is a necessary consequent of inherent guilt , and cannot be removed from one to another . and then they utterly deny that punishment is of the nature of debts ; for one man's money , they say , may become anothers , but one man's punishment cannot become anothers : thus they give and take , deny and grant , as it serves for their present purposes . vi. ( . ) the different ends of debts and punishments , make it appear that there is a difference in the nature of them ; for the intention of the obligation to payment in case of debt , is the compensation of the damage which the creditor sustains ; but the intention of punishment , is not bare compensation , but it is designed for greater and further ends . for which we are to consider the different nature of punishments , as they are inflicted by way of reparation of some injury done to private persons , and as they do respect the publick good . i grant , that private persons in case of injuries , seek for compensation of the damage they sustain , and so far they bear the nature of debts ; but if we consider them as inflicted by those who have a care of the publick , though they are to see that no private person suffers injury by another ; yet the reason of that is not merely that he might enjoy his own , but because the doing injuries to others tends to the subversion of the ends of government . therefore , i can by no means admit that position of crellius , that a magistrate only punishes as he assumes the person of the particular men who have received injuries from others ; for he aims at other ends than merely the compensation of those injured persons . their great end is according to the old roman formula , nè quid resp. detrimenti capiat : the reason of exacting penalties upon private men is still with a regard to the publick safety . supposing men in a state of nature no punishment is due to the injured person , but restitution of damage , and compensation of the loss that accrues to him by the injury sustained ; and whatever goes beyond this , is the effect of government , which constitutes penalties for perservation of the society which is under laws . but herein crellius is our adversary , but with no advantage at all to his cause ; for he offers to prove against grotius , that something more is due by an injury beyond bare compensation for what the other is supposed to lose by the right of nature ; for saith he , in every injury there is not only the real damage which the person sustains , but there is a contempt of the person implyed in it , for which as well as the former , he ought to have compensation . to which i answer , . that this doth not prove what he designs , viz. that punishment doth belong to the injured person in a state of nature , beyond bare restitution , but that it is necessary , that men should not continue in such a state , that so they may be vindicated from that contempt , and others compelled to restitution . both which , as they are punishments , are not in the power of the offended party as such , but shew that it is very reasonable there should be laws and governours , that private persons may be preserved in their just rights , and offenders punished for the vindication not only of their honour , but of the laws too . and laws being established , the injured person hath right to no more , than the compensation of his loss ; for that being forced upon the offending party , is a sufficient vindication of his honour . . if the contempt of a private person makes a compensation necessary , how much more will this hold in a publick magistrate ; whose contempt by disobedience is of far worse consequence than that of a private person . and by this argument crellius overthrows his main hypothesis , viz. that god may pardon sin without satisfaction ; for if it be not only necessary , that the loss be compensated but the dishonour too ; then so much greater as the dishonour is , so much higher as the person is , so much more beneficial to the world as his laws are , so much more necessary is it that in order to pardon there must be a satisfaction made to him , for the affronts he hath received from men . and if the greatness of the injury be to be measured as crellius asserts , from the worth and value of the thing , from the dignity and honour of the person , from the displicency of the fact to him , which he makes the measure of punishment ; this makes it still far more reasonable , that god should have satisfaction for the sins of men , than that men should have for the injuries done them by one another ; especially considering what the same author doth assert afterwards , that it is sometime repugnant to justice , for one to part with his own right in case of injuries , and that either from the nature and circumstances of the things themselves or a decree or determination to the contrary : for the first he instanceth in case of notorious defamation ; in which he saith , it is a dishonest and unlawful thing for a man , not to make use of his own right for his vindication : and for the other , in case of great obstinacy and malice . by both which , it is most apparent , that crellius puts a mighty difference between the nature of debts , and punishments , since in all cases he allows it lawful for a person free , to remit his debts ; but in some cases he makes it utterly unlawful for a person not to make use of his right for punishment . and withal if a private person may not part with his own right in such cases , how unreasonable is it not to assert the same of the great governour of the world ? and that there may be a necessity for him upon supposition of the contempt of himself and his laws , to vindicate himself and his honour to the world , by some remarkable testimony of his severity against sin . vii . but crellius yet urgeth another end of punishment , which though the most unreasonable of all others , yet sufficiently proves from himself the difference of debts and punishments , which is , the delight which the injured person takes in seeing the offender punished . this he so much insists upon , as though he made it the most natural end of punishment ; for saith he , among the punishments which a prince or any other free person can inflict , revenge is in the first place , and the more there is of that in any thing , the more properly it is called a punishment ; and he tells us what he means by this ultio ; viz. solatium ex alieno dolore , the contentment taken in anothers pain . but saith he , no man must object , that this is a thing evil in it self ; for although it be forbidden us under the new testament , yet in it self it is not unlawful for one that hath suffered pain from another to seek for the ease of his own pain , by the miseries of him that injured him : and for this purpose , saith he , we have the passion of anger in us , which being a desire of returning injuries , is then satisfied when it apprehends it done . but how absurd and unreasonable this doctrine is , will be easily discovered , for this would make the primary intendment of punishment to be the evil of him that suffers it . where the right of punishment is derived from an injury received , and therefore that which gives that right , is some damage sustained , the reparation of which is the first thing designed by the offended party : though it take not up the whole nature of punishment . and on this account no man can justly propose any end to himself in anothers evil , but what comes under the notion of restitution . for the evil of another is only intended in punishment as it respects the good of him for whose sake that evil is undergone . when that good may be obtained without anothers evil , the desire of it is unjust and unreasonable : and therefore all that contentment that any one takes in the evil another undergoes , as it is evil to him , is a thing repugnant to humane nature , and which all persons condemn in others when they allow themselves in it . it will be hard for crellius to make any difference between this end of punishment which he assigns , and the greatest cruelty ; for what can that be worse than taking delight in making others miserable , and seeing them so when he hath made them . i● it be replyed , that cruelty is without any cause , but here a just cause is supposed : i answer , a just cause is only supposed for the punishment , but there can be no just cause for any to delight in the miseries of others , and to comfort themselves by inflicting or beholding them . for the evil of another is never intended , but when it is the only means left for compensation ; and he must be guilty of great inhumanity , who desires anothers evil any further than that tends to his own good , i. e. the reparation of the damage sustained ; which if it may be had without anothers evil , then that comes not by the right of nature within the reason of punishment ; and consequently where it doth not serve for that end , the comfort that men take in it is no part of justice , but cruelty . for there can be no reason at all assigned for it ; for that lenimentum doloris which crellius insists on is meerly imaginary , and no other than the dog hath in gnawing the stone that is thrown at him ; and for all that i know , that propension in nature to the retribution of evil for evil any further than it tends to our security , and the preservation for the future , is one of the most unreasonable passions in humane nature . viii . and if we examine the nature of anger , either considered naturally or morally , the intention of it is , not the returning evil to another , for the evil received , but the security and perservation of our selves ; which we should not have so great a care of , unless we had a quick sense of injuries , and our blood were apt to be heated at the apprehension of them . but when this passion vents it self , in doing others injury to alleviate its own grief , it is a violent and unreasonable perturbation ; but being governed by reason , it aims at no more , than the great end of our beings ; viz. self-preservation . but when that cannot be obtained without anothers evil , so far the intendment of it is lawful , but no further . and i cannot therefore think those philosophers , who have defined anger to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by whose authority crellius defends himself , when he makes anger to be a desire of revenge , did throughly consider what was just and reasonable in it , but barely what was natural , and would be the effect of that passion , if not governed by reason . for otherwise iul. scaliger's definition is much more true and justifiable , that it is appetitus depulsionis ; viz. that whereby we are stirred up to drive away from us , any thing that is injurious to us . but because crellius alledgeth a saying of seneca , that would make vindicta of the nature of punishment , duabus de causis punire princeps solet , si aut se vindicet aut alium : we shall oppose to this the sense of the same author in this matter , which may sufficiently clear the other passage : for , saith he , inhumanum verbum est , & quidem pro justo receptum , ultio , & à contumelia non differt nisi ordine : qui dolorem regerit , tantum excusatius peccat . and no man speaks with greater vehemency against the delight in others punishments than he doth ; for he always asserts , the only reason of punishment , to be some advantage which is to come by it , and not meerly to satisfie anger , or to allay their own griefs , by seeing anothers : for , saith he , the punishment is inflicted , non quia delectetur ullius poena ( procul est enim à sapiente tam inhumana feritas ) sed ut documentum omnium sint : so that it is only the usefulness of punishment according to him , which makes it become any wise man ; and so far from a satisfaction of his grief by anothers punishment , that he makes that a piece of inhumanity , not incident to any who pretend to wisdom . nay , he denies , that a just punishment doth flow from anger ; for he that inflicts that , doth it non ipsius poenae avidus , sed quia oportet , not as desiring the punishment , but because there are great reasons for it : and elsewhere , exsequar quia oportet , non quia dolet : he is far enough then from approving , that imaginary compensation of one mans grief by anothers . and he shews at large that the weakest natures , and the least guided by reason , are the most subject to this anger and revenge . and although other things be pretended , the general cause of it is , a great infirmity of humane nature ; and thence it is , that children and old men , and sick persons , are the most subject to it ; and the better any are , the more they are freed from it : — quippe minuti semper & infirmi est animi , exiguique voluptas vltio — he makes cruelty to be nothing else , but the intemperance of the mind in exacting punishment ; and the difference between a prince and a tyrant to lie in this , that one delights in punishing , the other never does it but in case of necessity , when the publick good requires it . and this throughout his discourse , he makes the measure of punishment . who then could imagine , that he should speak so contradictory to himself , as to allow punishment for meer revenge , or the easing ones own griefs , by the pains of another ? in the places cited by crellius , ( if taken in his sense ) he speaks what commonly is , not what ought to be in the world ; for he disputes against it in that very place , therefore that cannot be the meaning which he contends for . the common design of punishments by a prince , saith he , is either to vindicate himself or others . i so render his words , because vindicare , when it is joyned with the person injured , as here , vindicare se aut alium , doth properly relate to the end of punishment , which is asserting the right of the injured person ; but when it is joyned with the persons who have done the injury , or the crimes whereby they did it , then it properly signifies to punish . thus sallust useth , vindicatum in eos ; and cicero , in milites nostros vehementer vindicatum , and for the fact very frequently in him , maleficia vindicare : but when it relates to the injured person , as here it doth , it cannot signifie meerly to punish ; for then se vindicare would be to punish ones self , but to assert his own right in case of injury , though it be with the punishment of another : for vindicatio , as cicero defines it , est per quam vis & injuria & omnino quod obfuturum est defendendo aut ulciscendo propulsatur . so that the security of our selves in case of force or injury , is that which is called vindication ; which sometimes may be done by defence , and other times by punishment . and that seneca doth mean no more here , is apparent by what follows ; for in case of private injuries , he saith , poenam si tutò poterit donet , he would have the prince forgive the punishment , if it may be done with safety ; so that he would not have any one punished , to satisfie anothers desire of revenge , but to preserve his own safety : and afterwards he saith , it is much beneath a princes condition , to need that satisfaction which arises from anothers sufferings : but for the punishments of others , he saith , the law hath established three ends , the amendment of the persons , or making others better by their punishments , or the publick security , by taking away such evil members out of the body : so that in publick punishments , he never so much as supposes , that contentment which revenge fansies in others punishments , but makes them wholly designed for the publick advantage . for the laws in punishment do not look backward but forward ; for as * plato saith , no wise man ever punished , meerly because men had offended , but lest they should : for past things cannot be recalled , but future are therefore forbidden , that they may be prevented . so to the same purpose is the saying of lactantius , produced by grotius , surgimus ad vindictam , non quia laesi sumus , sed ut disciplina servetur , mores corrigantur , licentia comprimatur : haec est ira justa . to which crellius answers , that this signifies nothing , unless it can be proved , that no man may justly punish another , merely because he is wronged . if he means of the right to punish , we deny not that to be , because the person is wronged ; but if he understands it of the design and end of punishment , then we deny , that it is an allowable end of punishments , any further than it can come under the notion of restitution , of which we have spoken already . when a master ( which is the instance he produceth ) punisheth his servants because they have disobeyed him : the reason of that punishment , is not the bare disobedience , but the injury which comes to him by it ; the reparation of which he seeks by punishment , either as to his authority , security or profit . but he adds , that where punishment is designed , for preservation of discipline , and amendment of manners , and keeping persons in order , ( which are the ends mentioned by lactantius ) it is where the interest of the persons lies , in the preservation of these , and is therefore offended at the neglect of them . to which i answer , that the interest of such a one , is not barely the interest of an offended party , as such , but the interest of a governour ; and no body denies , but such a one may be an offended party : but the question is , whether the design of punishment be meerly to satisfie him as the offended party , or to answer the ends of government ? for crellius hath already told us , what it is to satisfie one as an offended party , that is , to ease himself by the punishment of others ; but what ever is designed for the great ends of government , is not to be considered under that notion , although the governour may be justly offended at the neglect of them . and there is this considerable difference between the punishment made to an offended party , as such , and that which is for the ends of government ; that the former is a satisfaction to anger , and the latter to laws and the publick interest . for crellius disputes much for the right of anger in exacting punishments ; the satisfaction of which , in case of real injury , he never makes unlawful , but in case that it be prohibited us by one , whose power is above our own : nay he makes it otherwise the primary end of punishment . so that anger is the main thing upon these terms to be respected in punishment : but where it is designed for the ends before-mentioned , there is no necessity of any such passion as anger to be satisfied , the ends of punishment may be attained wholly without it : and publick punishment , according to seneca , non ira sed ratio est , is no effect of anger , but reason ; for , saith he , nihil minus quam irasci punientem decet : nothing less becomes one that punisheth , than anger doth ; for all punishments being considered as medicines , no man ought to give physick in anger , or to let himself blood in a fury : a magistrate , saith he , when he goes to punish , ought to appear only vultu legis quae non irascitur , sed constituit , with the countenance of the law , which appoints punishments without passion : the reason of which is , because the law aims not primarily at the evil of the man that suffers punishment , but at the good which comes to the publick by such sufferings . for the first design of the law was to prevent any evil being done , and punishment coming in by way of sanction to the force of the law , must have the same primary end which the law it self had ; which is not to satisfie barely the offended party for the breach , any further than that satisfaction tends to the security of the law , and preventing the violation of it for the future . the substance of what i have said upon this subject , may be thus briefly comprized , that antecedently to laws , the offended party hath right to no more than bare reparation of the damage sustained by the injury ; that the proper notion of punishment is consequent to laws , and the inflicting of it is an act of government , which is not designed for meer satisfaction of the anger of the injured person , but for the publick good , which lies in preserving the authority of the laws , the preventing all injuries by the security of mens just rights , and the vindication of the dignity and honour of him , who is to take care of the publick good . for these crellius himself acknowledgeth , to be the just ends of punishments , only he would have the satisfaction a man takes in anothers evil , to come in the first place ; wherein how much he is mistaken , i hope we have already manifested . because the proper nature of punishment depending upon laws , the laws do not primarily design the benefit of private persons ( supposing that were so ) but the advantage of that community which they are made for . ix . and in those cases wherein the magistrate doth right to particular persons in the punishment of those who have injured them , he doth it not as taking their person upon him , for he aims at other things than they do ; they look at a bare compensation for the injury received ; but the magistrate at the ill consequence the impunity of injuries may be of to the publick : they , it may be at the satisfaction of their displeasure ; but he at the satisfaction of the laws ; they at their own private damage ; he at the violation of the publick peace . and from hence among those nations who valued all crimes at a certain rate , in matters of injury between man and man , the injured person was not only to receive compensation for his wrong ; but a considerable fine was to be paid to the exchequer for the violation of the publick peace . thus tacitus observes among the old germans , grotius of the old gothick laws , and from them ( as most of our modern laws and customs are derived ) lindenbrogius of the salick , alemannick , lombardick , spelman of the saxon , who tells us in case of murder there were three payments , one to the kindred , which was called megbote ; the second to the lord , called manbote , the third to the king , called freda , from the german frid , which signifies peace , it being the consideration paid to the king for the breach of the publick peace . and this , saith he , in all actions , was anciently paid to the king , because the peace was supposed to be broken , not by meer force , but by any injuries ; and if the action was unjust , the plaintiff paid it ; if just , the defendant . and the measure of it , saith bignonius , was the tenth part of the value of the thing as estimated by law which by the customs of the ancient romans was deposited at the commencing of a suit by both , and only taken up again by him who overcame ; and was by them called sacramentum , as varro tells us . and the same custom was observed among the greeks too , as appears by iulius pollux , who tells us it was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 among them , and in publick actions was the fifth part , in private the tenth . but that which was paid to the publick in case of murder , was among the greeks called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the same with poena , for hesychius tells us that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and to the same purpose the scholiast on homer on those words , iliad . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by which the original of the name poena , comes from a payment made to the publick , according to that known rule , interest reip . delicta puniri , that persons may see how much the publick safety is concerned , that crimes be punished . from which and many other things which might be insisted on , crellius his hypothesis will appear to be false , viz. that when the magistrate doth judge in the affairs of particular men , he doth it only as assuming the person of those men ; whereas it appears from the reason of the thing , and the custom of nations , that the interest of the magistrate is considered as distinct from that of private persons , when he doth most appear in vindication of injuries . but all this is managed with a respect to the grand hypothesis , viz. that the right of punishing doth belong only to the offended party as such , that the punishment is of the nature of debts , and the satisfaction by compensation to the anger of him who is offended . the falsity of which this discourse was designed to discover . having thus considered the nature of punishments among men , we come more closely to our matter , by examining how far this will hold in the punishments which god inflicts on the account of sin . for which two things must be enquired into , . in what sense we attribute anger to god. . what are the great ends of those punishments god inflicts on men on the account of sin . x. for the first , though our adversaries are very unwilling to allow the term of punitive justice , yet they contend for a punitive anger in god , and that in the worst sense as it is appetitus vindictae : for after crellius hath contended that this is the proper notion of anger in general ; neither ought any one to say , he adds , that anger as other passions is attributed improperly to god ; for setting aside the imperfections , which those passions are subject to in us , all the rest is to be attributed to him , taking away then that perturbation , and pain , and grief we find in our selves in anger , to which the abhorrency of sin answers in god , all the rest doth agree to him . i would he had a little more plainly told us what he means by all the rest , but we are to guess at his meaning by what went before , where he allows of cicero , and aristotle's definition of anger , whereof the one is , that it is libido , or ( as crellius would rather have it , ) cupiditas puniendi , the other 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. and himself calls it poenae appetitio , and in another place , that it may be as properly defined cupiditas vindictae , as cupiditas poenae or affectus vindicandi , as well as puniendi : in all which places , he doth assert such an anger in god as supposes such a motion , or desire , or inclination to punish sin when it is committed , as there is in us when an injury is done us , only the perturbation and pain excluded . but he hath not thought fit to explain how such new motions or inclinations in the divine nature every time sin is committed , are consistent with the immutability and perfection of it ; nor what such a kind of desire to punish in god imports , whether a meer inclination without the effect , or an inclination with the effect following : if without the effect , then either because the sin was not great enough , or god's honour was not concerned to do it , and in this case the same reasons which make the effect not to follow , make the desire of it inconsistent with the divine wisdom and perfection : or else because the effect is hindred by the repentance of the person , or some other way which may make it not necessary to do it ; then upon the same reason the effect is suspended , the inclination to do it should be so too ; for that must be supposed to be governed by an eternal reason and counsel as well as his actions ; unless some natural passions in god be supposed antecedent to his own wisdom and counsel , which is derogatory to the infinite perfection of god , since those are judged imperfections in our selves : if it be taken only with the effect following it , then god can never be said to be angry but when he doth punish , whereas his wrath is said to be kindled in scripture , where the effect hath not followed ; which if it implies any more than the high provocation of god to punish ( as i suppose it doth not ) then this inclination to punish is to be conceived distinct from the effect following it . but that conception of anger in god seems most agreeable to the divine nature , as well as to the scriptures , which makes it either the punishment it self , as crellius elsewhere acknowledges it is often taken so ; or god's declaration of his will to punish , which is called the revelation of the wrath of god against all unrighteousness of men , god thereby discovering the just displeasure he hath against sin ; or the great provocation of god to punish , by the sins of men ; as when his wrath is said , to be kindled , &c. by this sense we may easily reconcile all that the scripture saith concerning the wrath of god ; we make it agreeable to infinite perfection , we make no such alterations in god , as the appeasing of his anger must imply , if that imply any kind of commotion in him . and thus the grand difficulty of crellius appears to be none at all , against all those passages of scripture which speak of appeasing god , of atonement , and reconciliation , viz. that if they prove satisfaction , they must prove that god being actually angry with mankind before the sufferings of his son , he must be presently appeased upon his undergoing them . for no more need to be said , than that god being justly provoked to punish the sins of mankind , was pleased to accept of the sufferings of his son , as a sufficient sacrifice of atonement for the sins of the world , on consideration of which he was pleased to offer those terms of pardon , which upon mens performance of the conditions required on their part , shall be sufficient to discharge them from that obligation to punishment which they were under by their sins . and what absurdity , or incongruity there is in this to any principle of reason i cannot imagine . but our adversaries first make opinions for us , and then shew they are unreasonable . they first suppose that anger in god is to be considered as a passion , and that passion a desire of revenge for satisfaction of it ; and then tell us , that if we do not prove , that this desire of revenge can be satisfied by the sufferings of christ , then we can never prove the doctrine of satisfaction to be true ; whereas we do not mean by god's anger any such passion , but the just declaration of god's will to punish upon our provocation of him by our sins ; we do not make the design of satisfaction to be , that god may please himself in the revenging the sins of the guilty upon the most innocent person ; because we make the design of punishment , not to be the satisfaction of anger as a desire of revenge , but to be the vindication of the honour and rights of the injured person , by such a way as himself shall judge most satisfactory to the ends of his government . xi . ( . ) which is the next thing we are to clear : for which end we shall make use of the concession of crellius , that god hath prefixed some ends to himself in the government of mankind ; which being supposed , it is necessary , that impenitent sinners should be punished . what these ends of god are , he before tells us , when he enquires into the ends of divine punishments , which he makes to be , security for the future , by mens avoiding sins , and a kind 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or pleasure which god takes in the destruction of his implacable enemies , and the asserting and vindicating his own right by punishing , and shewing men thereby , with what care and fear they ought to serve him ; and so attains the ends of punishment proposed by lactantius , and manifestation of the divine honour and majesty , which hath been violated by the sins of men . all these we accept of , with this caution , that the delight which god takes in the punishing his implacable enemies , be not understood of any pleasure in their misery , as such , by way of meer revenge ; but as it tends to the vindication of his right , and honour , and majesty ; which is an end suitable to the divine nature : but the other cannot in it self have the notion of an end ; for an end doth suppose something desirable for it self , which surely the miseries of others cannot have to us , much less to the divine nature . and that place which crellius insists on to prove the contrary , deut. . . the lord will rejoyce over you , to destroy you ; imports no more , than the satisfaction god takes in the execution of his justice , when it makes most for his honour , as certainly it doth in the punishment of his greatest enemies . and this is to be understood in a sense agreeable to those other places , where god is said not to delight in the death of sinners ; which doth not ( as crellius would have it ) meerly express god's benignity and mercy , but such an agreeableness of the exercise of those attributes to god's nature , that he neither doth nor can delight in the miseries of his creatures in themselves , but as they are subservient to the ends of his government , and yet such is his kindness in that respect too , that he useth all means agreeable thereto , to make them avoid being miserable , to advance his own glory . and i cannot but wonder that grotius , who had asserted the contrary in his book of satisfaction , should in his books de iure belli ac pacis , assert , that when god punisheth wicked men , he doth it for no other end but that he might punish them : for which he makes use of no other arguments , than those which crellius had objected against him ; viz. the delight god takes in punishing , and the judgments of the life to come , when no amendment can be expected ; the former hath been already answered , the latter is objected by crellius against him , when he makes the ends of punishment , merely to respect the community , which cannot be asserted of the punishments of another life , which must chiefly respect the vindication of god's glory , in the punishment of unreclaimable sinners . and this we do not deny to be a just punishment , since our adversaries themselves , as well as we , make it necessary . but we are not to understand , that the end of divine punishments doth so respect the community , as though god himself were to be excluded out of it ; for we are so to understand it , as made up of god as the governour , and mankind as the persons governed , whatever then tends to the vindication of the rights of god's honour and sovereignty , tends to the good of the whole , because the manifestation of that end is so great an end of the whole . xii . but withal , though we assert in the life to come , the ends of punishment not to be the reclaiming of sinners , who had never undergone them , unless they had been unreclaimable ; yet a vast difference must be made between the ends of punishments in that , and in this present state . for the other is the reserve , when nothing else will do , and therefore was not primarily intended ; but the proper ends of punishment , as a part of government , are to be taken from the design of them in this life . and here we assert , that god's end in punishing , is the advancing his honour , not by the meer miseries of his creatures , but that men by beholding his severity against sin , should break off the practice of it , that they may escape the punishments of the future state . so that the ends of punishment here , are quite of another kind , from those of another life ; for those are inflicted , because persons have been unreclaimable by either the mercies or punishments of this life ; but these are intended , that men should so far take notice of this severity of god , as to avoid the sins which will expose them to the wrath to come . and from hence it follows , that whatsoever sufferings do answer all these ends of divine punishments , and are inflicted on the account of sin , have the proper notion of punishments in them , and god may accept of the undergoing them as a full satisfaction to his law , if they be such as tend to break men off from sin , and assert god's right , and vindicate his honour to the world ; which are the ends assigned by crellius , and will be of great consequence to us in the following discourse . chap. ii. i. the particular state of the controversie , concerning the sufferings of christ. the concessions of our adversaries . ii. the debate reduced to two heads : the first concerning christ●s sufferings , being a punishment for sin , entred upon . in what sense crellius acknowledgeth the sins of men , to have been the impulsive cause of the death of christ. iii. the sufferings of christ proved to be a punishment , from scripture . the importance of the phrase of bearing sins . iv. of the scape-goats bearing the sins of the people into the wilderness . v. grotius his sense of pet. . . vindicated against crellius and himself . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 never used for the taking away a thing by the destruction of it . vi. crellius his sense examined . vii . isa. . . vindicated . the argument from matt. . , answered . grotius constant to himself in his notes on that place . viii . isa. . , , . cleared . ix . whether christ's death be a proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and whether that doth imply , that it was a punishment of sin ? how far the punishments of children for their fathers faults , are exemplary among men . the distinction of calamities and punishments , holds not here . x. that god's hatred of sin could not be seen in the sufferings of christ , unless they were a punishment of sin , proved against crellius . xi . grotius his arguments from christ being made sin and a curse for us , defended . the liberty our adversaries take in changing the sense of words . xii . the particles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being joyned to sins and relating to sufferings do imply those sufferings to be a punishment for sin . according to their way of interpreting scripture , it had been impossible for our doctrine to be clearly expressed therein . i. these things being thus far cleared concerning the nature and ends of punishments , and how far they are of the nature of debts , and consequently what kind of satisfaction is due for them , the resolution of the grand question concerning the sufferings of christ will appear much more easie ; but that we may proceed with all possible clearness in a debate of this consequence , we must yet a little more narrowly examine the difference between our adversaries and us in this matter ; for their concessions are in terms sometimes so fair , as though the difference were meerly about words without any considerable difference in the thing it self . if we charge them with denying satisfaction , crellius answers in the name of them , that we do it unjustly ; for they do acknowledge a satisfaction worthy of god , and agreeable to the scriptures . if we charge them with denying that our salvation is obtained by the death of christ , they assert the contrary , as appears by the same author . nay , ruarus attributes merit to the death of christ too . they acknowledge , that christ died for us , nay , that there was a commutation between christ and us , both of one person for another , and of a price for a person ; and that the death of christ may be said to move god to redeem us ; they acknowledge reconciliation , and expiation of sins to be by the death of christ. nay , they assert , that christ's death was by reason of our sins , and that god designed by that to shew his severity against sin . and what could we desire more , if they meant the same thing by these words , which we do ? they assert a satisfaction , but it is such a one as is meerly fulfilling the desire of another : in which sense all that obey god may be said to satisfie him . they attribute our salvation to the death of christ , but only as a condition intervening , upon the performance of which the covenant was confirmed , and himself taken into glory , that he might free men from the punishment of their sins . they attribute merit to christ's death but in the same sense that we may merit too , when we do what is pleasing to god. they acknowledge , that christ died for us , but not in our stead , but for our advantage ; that there was a commutation ; but not such a one , as that the son of god did lay down his blood as a proper price in order to our redemption as the purchase of it ; when they speak of a moving cause , they tell us , they mean no more than the performance of any condition may be said to move , or as our prayers and repentance do . the reconciliation they speak of , doth not at all respect god but us ; they assert an expiation of sins consequent upon the death of christ , but not depending upon it any otherwise , than as a condition necessary for his admission to the office of a high priest in heaven , there to expiate our sins by his power , and not by his blood ; but they utterly deny , that the death of christ is to be considered as a proper expiatory sacrifice for sin ; or that it hath any further influence upon it , than as it is considered as a means of the confirmation of the truth of his doctrine , and particularly the promise of remission of sins , on which ▪ and not on the death of christ they say our remission depends ; but so far as the death of christ may be an argument to us to believe his doctrine , and that faith may incline us to obedience , and that obedience being the condition in order to pardon , at so many removes they make the death of christ to have influence on the remission of our sins . they assert , that god took occasion by the sins of men to exercise an act of dominion upon christ in his sufferings , and that the sufferings of christ were intended for the taking away the sins of men ; but they utterly deny , that the sufferings of christ were to be considered as a punishment for sin ; or that christ did suffer in our place and stead ; nay , they contend with great vehemency , that it is wholly inconsistent with the justice of god to make one mans sins the meritorious cause of anothers punishment ; especially one wholly innocent , and so that the guilty shall be freed on the account of his sufferings . thus i have endeavoured to give the true state of the controversie with all clearness and brevity . and the substance of it will be reduced to these two debates . . whether the sufferings of christ in general are to be considered as a punishment of sin , or as a meer act of dominion ? . whether the death of christ in particular were a proper expiatory sacrifice for sin , or only an antecedent condition to his exercise of the office of priesthood in heaven ? ii. ( . ) whether the sufferings of christ in general are to be considered as a punishment of sin , or as a meer act of dominion ? for that it must be one or the other of these two , cannot be denied by our adversaries ; for the inflicting those sufferings upon christ , must either proceed from an antecedent meritorious cause , or not . if they do , they are then punishments ; if not , they are meer exercises of power and dominion ; whatever ends they are intended for , and whatever recompence be made for them . so crellius asserts , that god as absolute lord of all , had a right of absolute dominion upon the life and body of christ , and therefore might justly deliver him up to death , and give his body to the cross ; and although christ by the ordinary force of the law of moses , had a right to escape so painful and accursed a death , yet god by the right of dominion had the power of disposal of him , because he intended to compensate his torments with a reward infinitely greater than they were : but because he saith , for great end● the consent of christ was necessary , therefore god did not use his utmost dominion in delivering him up by force as he might have done , but he dealt with him by way of command , and rewards proposed for obedience , and in this sence he did act as a righteous governour , and indulgent father , who encouraged his son to undergo hard , but great things . in which we see that he makes the sufferings of christ an act of meer dominion in god , without any antecedent cause as the reason of them ; only he qualifies this act of dominion with the proposal of a reward for it . but we must yet further enquire into their meaning , for though here crellius attributes the sufferings of christ meerly to god's dominion , without any respect to sin , yet elsewhere he will allow a respect that was had to sin antecedently to the sufferings of christ , and that the sins of men were the impulsive cause of them . and although socinus in one place utterly denies any lawful antecedent cause of the death of christ , besides the will of god and christ , yet crellius in his vindication saith , by lawful cause , he meant meritorious , or such upon supposition of which he ought to die ; for elsewhere he makes christ to die for the cause , or by the occasion of our sins ; which is the same that crellius means by an impulsive , or procatartick cause . which he thus explains , we are now to suppose a decree of god not only to give salvation to mankind , but to give us a firm hope of it in this present state , now our sins by deserving eternal punishment , do hinder the effect of that decree upon us , and therefore they were an impulsive cause of the death of christ , by which it was effected , that this decree should obtain notwithstanding our sins . but we are not to understand as tho' this were done by any expiation of the guilt of sin by the death of christ ; but this effect is hindred by three things , by taking away their sins , by assuring men that their former sins , and present infirmities upon their sincere obedience shall not be imputed to them , and that the effect of that decree shall obtain , all which , saith he , is effected morte christi interveniente , the death of christ intervening , but not as the procuring cause . so that after all these words he means no more by making our sins an impulsive cause of the death of christ , but that the death of christ was an argument to confirm to us the truth of his doctrine , which doctrine of his doth give us assurance of these things : and that our sins when they are said to be the impulsive cause , are not to be considered with a respect to their guilt , but to that distrust of god which our sins do raise in us ; which distrust is in truth according to this sense of crellius the impulsive cause , and not the sins which were the cause or occasion of it . for that was it which the doctrine was designed to remove , and our sins only as the ca●●es of that . but if it be said , that he speaks not only of the distrust , but of the punishment of sin as an impediment which must be removed too , and therefore may be called an impulsive cause , we are to consider that the removal of this is not attributed to the death of christ , but to the leaving of our sins by the belief of his doctrine ; therefore the punishment of our sins cannot , unless in a very remote sense , be said to be an impulsive cause of that , which for all that we can observe by crellius , might as well have been done without it ; if ●ny other way could be thought suffi●●ent to confirm his doctrine , and christ , without dying , might have had power to save all them that obey him . but we understand not an impulsive cause in so remote a sense , as though our sins were a meer occasion of christs dying , because the death of christ was one argument among many others to believe his doctrine , the belief of which would make men leave their sins ; but we contend for a nearer and more proper sense , viz. that the death of christ was primarily intended for the expiation of our sins , with a respect to god and not to us , and therefore our sins as an impulsive cause are to be considered as they are so displeasing to god , that it was necessary for the vindication of god's honour , and the deterring the world from sin , that no less a sacrifice of atonement should be offered , than the blood of the son of god. so that we understand an impulsive cause here in the sense , that the sins of the people were , under the law , the cause of the offering up those sacrifices , which were appointed for the expiation of them . and as in those sacrifices there were two things to be considered , viz. the mactation , and the oblation of them , the former as a punishment by a substitution of them in place of the persons who had offended ; the latter as the proper sacrifice of atonement , although the mactation it self , considered with the design of it , was a sacrificial act too : so we consider the sufferings of christ with a two-fold respect , either as to our sins , as the impulsive cause of them , so they are to be considered as a punishment , or as to god , with a design to expiate the guilt of them , so they are a sacrifice of atonement . the first consideration is that we are now upon , and upon which the present debate depends , for if the sufferings of christ be to be taken under the notion of punishment , then our adversaries grant , that our sins must be an impulsive cause of them in another sense than they understand it . for the clearing of this , i shall prove these two things . . that no other sense ought to be admitted of the places of scripture which speak of the sufferings of christ with a respect to sin , but this . . that this account of the sufferings of christ , is no ways repugnant to the iustice of god. iii. that no other sense ought to be admitted of the places of scripture , which speak of the sufferings of christ with a respect to our sins , but that they are to be considered as a punishment for them . such are those which speak of christ bearing our sins , of our iniquities being laid upon him , of his making himself an offering for sin , and being made sin and a curse for us , and of his dying for our sins . all which i shall so far consider , as to vindicate them from all the exceptions which socinus and crellius have offered against them . . those which speak of christ's bearing our sins . as to which we shall consider , first , the importance of the phrase in general of bearing sin , and then the circumstances of the particular places in dispute . for the importance of the phrase , socinus acknowledges , that it generally signifies bearing the punishment of sin in scripture : but that sometimes it signifies taking away . the same is confessed by crellius , but he saith , it doth not always signifie bearing proper punishment , but it is enough ( says he ) that one bears something burdensome on the occasion of others sins : and so christ by undergoing his sufferings by occasion of sins , may be said to bear our sins . and for this sense he quotes numb . . . and your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years , and bear your whoredoms , until your carcasses be wasted in the wilderness . whereby , saith he , it is not meant that god would punish the children of the israelites , but that by the occasion of their parents sins , they should undergo that trouble , in wandring in the wilderness , and being deprived of the possession of the promised land. but could crellius think that any thing else could have been imagined , ( setting aside a total destruction ) a greater instance of god's severity , than that was to the children of israel all their circumstances being considered ? is it not said , that god did swear in his wrath , they should not enter into his rest ? surely then the debarring them so long of that rest , was an instance of god's wrath , and so according to his own principles must have something of vindicta in it , and therefore be a proper punishment . the truth is , our adversaries allow themselves in speaking things most repugnant to humane nature in this matter of punishments , that they may justifie their own hypothesis . for a whole nation to be for forty years debarred from the greatest blessings were ever promised them ; and instead of enjoying them , to endure the miseries and hardships of forty years travels in a barren wilderness , must not be thought a punishment , and only because occasioned by their parents sins . but whatever is inflicted on the account of sin , and with a design to shew god's severity against it , and thereby to deter others from the practice of it , hath the proper notion of punishment in it ; and all these things did concurr in this instance , besides the general sense of mankind in the matter of their punishment , which was such , that supposing them preserved in their liberty , could not have been imagined greater . and therefore vatablus , whom socinus and crellius highly commend , thus renders those words , dabunt poenas pro fornicationibus vestris quibus defecistis à deo vestro : they shall suffer the punishment of your fornications . and that bearing the sins of parents doth imply properly bearing the punishment of them , methinks they should not so earnestly deny , who contend that to be the meaning of the words in ezekiel , the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father ; viz. that he shall not bear the punishment of his fathers sins . where in bearing iniquity with a respect to their parents sins , by their own confession , must be taken for the proper punishment ; for otherwise they do not deny , but children , notwithstanding that sentence , may undergo much affliction on the occasion of their parents sins . iv. but socinus further objects , that bearing sins doth not imply the punishment of them , because the scape-goat under the law , is said to bear upon him the iniquities of the people , and yet could not be said to be punished for them . to which grotius answers , that socinus takes it for granted without reason , that the scape-goat could not be said to be punished for the sins of the people ; for punishment in general , may fall upon beasts for the sins of men , gen. . . exod. . . lev. . . gen. . . and socinus hath no cause to say , that the scape-goat was not slain ; for the iewish interpreters do all agree that he was , and however the sending him into the wilderness was intended as a punishment , and most probably by an unnatural death . to which crellius replies , that in the general , he denies not but punishment may fall upon beasts as well as men ; but ( that he might shew himself true to his principle , that one cannot be punished for anothers faults , ) he falls into a very pleasant discourse , that the beasts are not said to be punished for mens sins , but for their own , and therefore when it is said , before the flood , that all flesh had corrupted his way ; he will by no means have it understood only of men , but that the sins of the beasts at that time , were greater than ordinary , as well as mens . but he hath not told us what they were , whether by eating some forbidden herbs ; or entring into conspiracies against mankind their lawful sovereigns , or unlawful mixtures ; and therefore we have yet reason to believe , that when god saith , the ground was cursed for man's sake , that the beasts were punished for mans sin . and if all flesh , must comprehend beasts in this place , why shall not all flesh seeing the glory of the lord , take in the beasts there too ? for vatablus parallels this place with the other . but if , saith crellius , any shall contend that some beasts at least were innocent , then , he saith , that those though they were destroyed by the flood , yet did not suffer punishment , but only a calamity by occasion of the sins of men . i wonder he did not rather say , that the innocent beasts were taken into the ark , for the propagation of a better kind afterwards . but by this solemn distinction of calamities and punishments , there is nothing so miserable , that either men or beasts can undergo , but when it serves their turn , it shall be only a calamity and no punishment , though it be said to be on purpose to shew god's severity against the sins of the world . and this excellent notion of the beasts being punished for their own sins , is improved by him to the vindication of the scape-goat from being punished , because then , saith he , the most wicked and corrupt goat should have been made choice of . as though all the design of that great day of expiation had been only to call the children of israel together with great solemnity ; to let them see , how a poor goat must be punished for breaking the laws which we do not know were ever made for them . i had thought our adversaries had maintained that the sacrifices ( on the day of expiation at least ) had represented and typified the sacrifice which was to be offered up by christ ; and so socinus and crellius elsewhere contend : he needed not therefore have troubled himself concerning the sins of the goat , when it is expresly said , that the sins of the people were put on the head of the goat ; whatever then the punishment were , it was on the account of the sins of the people , and not his own . but crellius urgeth against grotius , that if the scape-goat had been punished for the expiation of the sins of the people , that should have been particularly expressed in scripiure , whereas nothing is said there at all of it , and that the throwing down the scape-goat from the top of the rock , was no part of the primitive institution , but one of the superstitions taken up by the iews in after-times , because of the ominousness of the return of it ; and although we should suppose ( which is not probable ) that it should die by famine in the wilderness , yet this was not the death for expiation , which was to be by the shedding of blood . to this therefore i answer , . i do not insist on the customs of the later jews to prove from thence any punishment designed by the primitive institution . for i shall easily yield , that many superstitions obtained among them aftewards about the scape-goat ; as the stories of the red list turning white upon the head of it , the booths and the causey made on purpose , and several other things mentioned in the rabbinical writers do manifest . but yet it seems very probable from the text it self , that the scape-goat was not carried into the wilderness at large , but to a steep mountain there . for although we have commonly render'd azazel by the scape-goat , yet according to the best of the jewish writers , as p. fagius tells us , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not come from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a goat , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 abiit ; but is the name of a mountain very steep and rocky near mount sinai , and therefore probably called by the later jews , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the name of a rock : and to this purpose , it is observable that where we render it , and let him go for a scape-goat into the wilderness , in the hebrew it is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to send him to azazel in the wilderness : as the joyning the preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth import , and the arabick version wherever azazel is mentioned , renders it by mount azaz : and the chaldee and syriack to azazel ; so that from hence , a carrying the scape-goat to a certain place may be inferred ; but i see no foundation in the text for the throwing it down from the rock when it was there ; and therefore i cannot think , but that if the punishment intended did lie in that , it would have been expresly mentioned in the solemnities of that day , which had so great an influence on the expiation of the sins of the people . . i answer , that the scape-goat was to denote rather the effect of the expiation , than the manner of obtaining it . for the proper expiation was by the shedding ef blood , as the apostle tells us ; and thence the live goat was not to have the sins of the people to bear away into the desart , till the high-priest had made an end of reconciling the holy place , and the tabernacle of the congregation , and the altar ; and by the sprinkling of the blood of the other goat which was the sin-offering for the people ; which being done , he was to bring the live goat , and to lay his hands upon the head of it , and confess over it all the iniquities of the children of israel , and all their transgressions in all their sins , putting them upon the head of the goat , and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness ; and so the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited , and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness . so that the former goat noted the way of expiation by the shedding of blood , and the latter the effect of it , viz. that the sins of the people were declared to be expiated by the sending the goat charged with their sins into a desart place ; and that their sins would not appear in the presence of god against them , any more than they expected , that the goat which was sent into the wilderness should return among them . which was the reason that afterwards they took so much care that it should not , by causing it to be thrown off from a steep rock ; which was no sooner done , but notice was given of it very suddenly by the sounding of horns all over the land. but the force of socinus his argument from the scape-goat's bearing the sins of the people , that therefore that phrase doth not always imply the bearing of punishment , is taken off by crellius himself , who tells us , that the scape-goat is not said to bear the sins of the people in the wilderness ; but only that it carried the sins of the people into the wilderness , which is a phrase of another importance from that we are now discoursing of . as will now further appear from the places where it is spoken of concerning our saviour , which we now come particularly to examine . v. the first place insisted on by grotius with a respect to christ , is pet. . . who his own self bare our sins , in his own body on the tree , which , saith crellius , is so far from proving that christ did bear the punishment of our sins , that it doth not imply any sufferings that he underwent on the occasion of them . he grants that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signifie to carry up , but withall ( he saith ) it signifies to take away ; because that which is taken up , is taken away from the place where it was . besides , he observes , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth answer to the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he hath made to ascend , which is frequently rendred by it in the lxx . and sometime by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; but that hebrew word doth often signifie to take away , where it is rendred in the greek by one of those two words , sam. . . iosh. . . psal. . . ezra . . to which i answer , . that the signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this place , must not be taken from every sense the word is ever used for , but in that which the words out of which these are taken do imply ; and in isa. . . it doth not answer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a word which by the confession of all is never properly used for taking away , but for bearing of a burden , and is used with a respect to the punishment of sin , lament . . . our fathers have sinned , and are not , and we have born their iniquities , where the same word is used ; so that the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here , must depend upon that in isaiah , of which more afterward . . granting that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth answer sometimes to the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yet it makes nothing to crellius his purpose , unless he can prove that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth ever signifie the taking away a thing by the destruction of it ; for where it answers to that word , it is either for the offering up of a sacrifice , in which sense 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is very frequently used , as is confessed by crellius ; and in that sense it is no prejudice at all to our cause ; for then it must be granted , that christ upon the cross is to be considered as a sacrifice for the sins of men ; and so our sins were laid upon him as they were supposed to be on the sacrifices under the law , in order to the expiation of them , by the shedding their blood ; and if our adversaries would acknowledge this , the difference would not be so great between us ; or else it is used for the removal of a thing from one place to another , the thing it self still remaining in being , as sam. . . and he made saul's bones to ascend , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he took them away , saith crellius ; true , but it is such a taking away , as is a bare removal , the thing still remaining ; the same is to be said of ioseph's bones , iosh. . . which are all the places where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used ; and although 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may be sometimes taken in another sense , as psal. . . yet nothing can be more unreasonable than such a way of arguing as this is ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith crellius , signifies taking away ; we demand his proof of it ; is it that the word signifies so much of it self ? no ; that he grants it doth not . is it that it is frequently used in the greek version to render a word that properly doth signifie so ? no ; nor that neither . but how is it then ? crellius tells us , that it sometimes answers to a word that signifies to make to ascend : well , but doth that word signifie taking away ? no ; not constantly , for it is frequently used for a sacrifice : but doth it at any time signifie so ? yes ; it signifies the removal of a thing from one place to another . is that the sense then he contends for here ? no ; but how then ? why 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used to render the same word that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , though it signifies too a bare removal , as ezra . . yet psal. . . it is used for cutting off , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the hebr. is , make me not to ascend in the midst of my days . but doth it here signifie utter destruction ? i suppose not ; but grant it , what is this to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when the lxx useth not that word here , which for all that we know was purposely altered ; so that at last 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is far enough from any such signification as crellius would fix upon it , unless he will assert , that christ taking away our sins , was only a removal of them from earth to heaven . but here grotius comes in to the relief of crellius against himself ; for in his notes upon this place , though he had before said , that the word was never used in the new testament in that sense , yet he there saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is abstulit , for which he referrs us to heb. . . where he proceeds altogether as subtilly as crellius had done before him , for he tells us 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is put for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , numb . . . deut. . . isa. . . but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is put for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , lev. . . numb . . . a most excellent way of interpreting scripture ? considering the various significations of the hebrew words , and above all of that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is here mentioned . for according to this way of arguing , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shall signifie the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies all these , and is rendred by them in the greek version , so that by the same way that grotius proves that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we can prove that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not signifie to take away , but to bear punishment ; nay , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies the bearing punishment in the strictest sense , ezek. . ● , . and bearing sin in that sense , ezek. . . thou hast born thy leudness , and thy abominations , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so that when 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is more frequently used in this than in the other sense , why shall its signifying 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 at any time make 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be taken in the same sense with that ? nay , i do not remember in any place where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is joyned with sin , but it signifies the punishment of it , so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , lev. . . to bear his iniquity ▪ lev. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , bearing their iniquity , in one verse , is explained by being cut off from among their people , in the next . and in the places cited by grotius , that numb . . . hath been already shewed to signifie bearing the punishment of sin , and that deut. . . is plainly understood of a sacrifice , the other , isa. . . will be afterwards made appear by other places in the same chapter , to signifie nothing to this purpose . so that for all we can yet see , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must be taken either for bearing our sins as a sacrifice did under the law , or the punishment of them ; in either sense it serves our purpose , but is far enough from our adversaries meaning . vi. but supposing we should grant them , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may signifie to take away , let us see what excellent sense they make of these words of st. peter . do they then say , that christ did take away our sins upon the cross ? no ; they have a great care of that , for that would make the expiation of sins to have been performed there ; which they utterly deny , and say , that christ only took the cross in his way to his ascension to heaven , that there he might expiate sins . but doth not s● ▪ peter say , that what was done by him here , was in his body on the tree : and they will not say , he carried that with him to heaven too . well , but what then was the taking away of sin which belonged to christ upon the cross ? is it only to perswade men to live vertuously , and leave off their sins ? this socinus would have , and crellius is contented that it should be understood barely of taking away sins , and not of the punishment of them , but only by way of accession and consequence : but if it be taken ( which he inclines more to ) for the punishment , then ( he saith ) it is to be understood not of the vertue and efficacy of the death of christ , but of the effect : and yet a little after he saith , those words of christ bearing our sins , are to be understood of the force and efficacy of christs death to do it , not including the effect of it in us ; not as though christ did deliver us from sins by his death , but that he did that by dying , upon which the taking away of sin would follow , or which had a great power for the doing it . so uncertain are our adversaries , in affixing any sense upon these words , which may attribute any effect at all , to the death of christ upon the cross. for if they be understood of taking away sins , then they are only to be meant of the power that was in the death of christ , to perswade men to leave their sins ; which we must have a care of understanding so , as to attribute any effect to the death of christ in order to it ; but only that the death of christ was an argument for us to believe what he said , and the believing what he said would incline us to obey him , and if we obey him , we shall leave off our sins whether christ had died or no : supposing his miracles had the same effect on us , which those of moses had upon the iews , which were sufficient to perswade them to believe and obey without his death . but if this be all that was meant by christ's bearing our sins in his body on the tree ; why might not st. peter himself be said to bear them upon his cross too ? for his death was an excellent example of patience , and a great argument to perswade men he spake truth , and that doctrine which he preached , was repentance and remission of sins : so that by this sense there is nothing peculiar attributed to the death of christ. but taking the other sense for the taking away the punishment of sins , we must see how this belongs to the death of christ : do they then attribute our delivery from the punishment of sin , to the death of christ on the cross ? yes , just as we may attribute caesar's subduing rome , to his passing over rubicon , because he took that in his way to the doing of it : so they make the death of christ only as a passage , in order to expiation of sins , by taking away the punishment of them . for that shall not be actually perfected , they say , till his full deliverance of all those that obey him , from hell and the grave , which will not be till his second coming . so that if we only take the body of christ for his second coming , and the cross of christ , or the tree , for his throne of glory , then they will acknowledge , that christ may very well be said to take away sins in his own body on the tree : but if you take it in any sense that doth imply any peculiar efficacy to the death of christ , for all the plainness of st. peter's words , they by no means will admit of it . vii . but because crellius urgeth grotius with the sense of that place , isa. . . out of which he contends these words are taken , and crellius conceives he can prove there , that bearing is the same with taking away sin : we now come to consider , what force he can find from thence , for the justifying his assertion , that the bearing of sins , when attributed to christ , doth not imply the punishment of them , but the taking them away . the words are , for he shall bear their iniquities . as to which grotius observes , that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifies iniquity , is sometimes taken for the punishment of sin , king. . . and the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to bear , and whenever it is joyned with sin or iniquity , in all languages , and especially the hebrew , it signifies to suffer punishment ; for although 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may sometimes signifie to take away , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 never does : so that this phrase can receive no other interpretation . notwithstanding all which crellius attempts to prove , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here , must be taken in a sense contrary to the natural and perpetual use of the word ; for which his first argument is very infirm , viz. because it is mentioned after the death of christ , and is therefore to be considered as the reward of the other . whereas it appears : . by the prophets discourse , that he doth not insist on an exact methodical order , but dilates and amplifies things as he sees occasion : for verse . . he saith , he made his grave with the wicked , and with the rich in his death ; and verse . he said , yet it pleased the lord to bruise him , he hath put him to grief : will crellius therefore say , that this must be consequent to his death and burial ? . the particle● may be here taken causally , as we render it , very agreeably to the sense ; and so it gives an account of the foregoing clause , by his knowledge , shall my righteous servant justifie many , for he shall bear their iniquities . and that this is no unusual acception of that particle , might be easily cleared from many places of scripture if it were necessary ; and from this very prophet , as isa. . . where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 king. ● . . and isa. . . thou art wroth , for we have sinned , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where the same particle is made the casual of what went before . but we need not insist upon this to answer crellius , who elsewhere makes use of it himself , and says , they must be very ignorant of the hebrew tongue , who do not know that the conjunction copulative is often taken casually ; and so much is confessed by socinus also , where he explains that particle in one sense in the beginning , and casually in the middle of the verse : and the lord's anger was kindled against israel , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for he moved , &c. but if this will not do , he attempts to prove , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this very chapter , hath the signification of taking away , v. . for he hath born our griefs , and carried our sorrows , which is applied by st. matth. . . to bodily diseases , which our saviour did not bear , but took away , as it is said in the foregoing verse ; he healed all that were sick , on which those words come in , that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by isaias , &c. to which i answer : . it is granted by our adversaries , that st. matthew in those words , doth not give the full sense of the prophet , but only applies that by way of accommodation , to bodily diseases , which was chiefly intended for the sins of men . and in a way of accommodation it is not unusual to strain words beyond their genuine and natural signification , or what was intended primarily by the person who spake them . would it be reasonable for any to say that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies to give , because that place , psal. . . where the word by all is acknowledged to signifie to receive , is rendred to give , eph. . . so that admitting another sense of the word here , as applied to the cure of bodily diseases , it doth not from thence follow , that this should be the meaning of the word in the primary sense intended by the prophet . . the word as used by st. matthew , is very capable of the primary and natural sense ; for st. matthew retains words of the same signification , with that which we contend for , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , neither of which doth signifie taking away , by causing a thing not to be . so that all that is implied hereby , is the pains and trouble which our saviour took in the healing of the sick . for to that end , as grotius well observes upon that place , the circumstances are mentioned , that it was at even , and multitudes were brought to him in st. matthew , that after sun set all that were diseased were brought , and all the city was gathered together at the door , in st. mark ; that he departed not till it was day , in st. luke ; that we might the better understand how our saviour did bear our griefs , because the pains he took in healing them were so great . and here i cannot but observe , that grotius in his notes on that place , continued still in the same mind he was in , when he writ against socinus ; for he saith , those words may either refer to the diseases of the body , and so they note the pains he took in the cure of them ; or to our sins , and so they were fulfilled when christ by suffering upon the cross , did obtain remission of sins for us , as st. peter saith , pet. . . but upon what reason the annotations on that place come to be so different from his sense expressed here , long after crellius his answer , i do not understand . but we are sure he declared his mind , as to the main of that controversie , to be the same , that it was when he writ his book which crellius answered ; as appears by two letters of his to vossius , not long since published ; and he utterly disowns the charge of socinianism , as a calumny in his discussion , the last book he ever writ . viii . but we are no further obliged to vindicate grotius , than he did the truth ; which we are sure he did in the vindication of the of isaiah , from socinus his interpretations , notwithstanding what crellius hath objected against him . we therefore proceed to other verses in the same chapter insisted on by grotius , to prove , that christ did bear the punishments of our sins , v. , . the lord hath laid on him the iniquities of us all : it is required , and he was afflicted , as grotius renders those words . socinus makes a twofold sense of the former clause ; the first is , that god by or with christ did meet with our iniquities ; the latter , that god did make our iniquities to meet with christ. the words saith grotius , will not bear the former interpretation ; for the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being in hiphil , must import a double action , and so it must not be , that god by him did meet with our sins , but that god did make our sins to meet upon him . to which crellius replies , that words in hiphil are sometimes used intransitively ; but can he produce any instance in scripture , where this word joyned with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is so taken ? for in the last verse of the chapter , the construction is different : and what an uncertain way of interpreting scripture will this be , if every anomalous signification , and rare use of a word , shall be made use of to take away such a sense as is most agreeable to the design of the place . for that sense we contend for , is not only enforced upon the most natural importance of these words , but upon the agreeableness of them with so many other expressions of this chapter , that christ did bear our iniquities , and was wounded for our transgressions , and that his soul was made an offering for sin : to which it is very suitable , that as the iniquities of the people were ( as it were ) laid upon the head of the sacrifice ; so it should be said of christ , who was to offer up himself for the sins of the world . and the iews themselves by this phrase do understand the punishment either for the sins of the people , which iosias underwent , or which the people themselves suffered , by those who interpret this prophecy of them . to which purpose , aben ezra observes , that iniquity is here put for the punishment of it , as sam. . . and lam. . . but socinus mistrusting the incongruity of this interpretation , flies to another ; viz. that god did make our iniquities to meet with christ : and this we are willing to admit of , if by that they mean , that christ underwent the punishment of them ; as that phrase must naturally import , for what otherwise can our iniquities meeting with him signifie ? for the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 taken properly ( as socinus acknowledgeth it ought to be , when he rejects pagnin's interpretation of making christ to interceed for our iniquities ) signifies , either to meet with one by chance , or out of kindness , or else for an encounter , with an intention to destroy that which it meets with . so iudg. . . rise thou 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , lxx . irrue in nos , fall upon us ; i e. run upon us with thy sword , and kill us . iudg. . . swear unto me , that ye will not fall upon me your selves ; where the same word is used , and they explain the meaning of it in the next words , v. . we will not kill thee , amos . . as if a man did flee from a lyon , and a bear met him , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. with a design to kill him . now i suppose they will not say that our sins met with christ by chance , since it is said , that god laid on him , &c. not out of kindness ; it must be therefore out of enmity , and with a design to destroy him ; and so our sins cannot be understood as socinus and crellius would have them , as the meer occasions of christ's death : but as the proper impulsive cause of it . whether the following word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be taken with a respect to sin , and so it properly signifies it is required , or with a respect to the person , and so it may signifie he was oppressed , is not a matter of that consequence , which we ought to contend about ; if it be proved that christ's oppression had only a respect to sin , as the punishment of it . which will yet further appear from another expression in the same chapter , v. . the chastisement of our peace was upon him , and by his stripes we are healed . in which grotius saith the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not signifie any kind of affliction , but such as hath the nature of punishment , either for example or instruction ; but since the latter cannot be intended in christ , the former must . crellius thinks to escape from this , by acknowledging , that the sufferings of christ have some respect to sin ; but if it be such a respect to sin , which makes what christ underwent a punishment ( which is only proper in this case ) it is as much as we contend for . this therefore he is loth to abide by ; and saith that chastisement imports no more than bare affliction without any respect to sin , which he thinks to prove from st. paul's words , cor. . . we are chastised , but not given over to death ; but how far this is from proving his purpose will easily appear , . because those by whom they were said to be chastened , did not think they did it without any respect to a fault ; but they supposed them to be justly punished ; and this is that we plead for , that the chastisement considered with a respect to him that inflicts it , doth suppose some fault as the reason of inflicting it . . this is far from the present purpose , for the chastisement there mention'd is opposed to death , as chastened , but not killed ; whereas grotius expresly speaks of such chastisements as include death , that these cannot be supposed to be meerly designed for instruction , and therefore must be conceived under the notion of punishment . the other place , psal. . . is yet more remote from the business ; for though the psalmist accounts himself innocent in respect of the great enormities of others ; yet he could not account himself so innocent with a respect to god , as not to deserve chastisement from him . ix . but crellius offers further to prove that christ's death must be considered as a bare affliction , and not as a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or exemplary punishment , because in such a punishment the guilty themselves are to be punished , and the benefit comes to those who were not guilty , but in christ's sufferings it was quite contrary , for the innocent was punished , and the guilty have the benefit of it : and yet ( he saith ) if we should grant that christ's sufferings were a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that will not prove that his death was a proper punishment . to which i answer , that whatever answers to the ends of an exemplary punishment , may properly be called so : but supposing that christ suffered the punishment of our sins , those sufferings will answer to all the ends of an exemplary punishment . for the ends of such a punishment assigned by crellius himself , are , that others observing such a punishment , may abstain from those sins which have brought it upon the person who suffers . now the question is , whether supposing christ did suffer on the account of our sins , these sufferings of his may deterr us from the practice of sin or no ? and therefore in opposition to crellius , i shall prove these two things : . that supposing christ suffered for our sins , there was a sufficient argument to deterr us from the practice of sin . . supposing that his sufferings had no respect to our sins , they could not have that force to deterr men from the practice of it : for he after asserts , that christ's sufferings might be a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to us , though they were no punishment of sin . . that the death of christ considered as a punishment of sin , is a proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or hath a great force to deterr men from the practice of sin : and that because the same reason of punishment is supposed in christ and in our selves , and because the example is much more considerable , than if we had suffered our selves . . the same reason of punishment is supposed . for why are men deterred from sin , by seeing others punished ; but because they look upon the sin as the reason of the punishment ; and therefore where the same reason holds , the same ends may be as properly obtained . if we said that christ suffered death meerly as an innocent person out of god's dominion over his life ; what imaginable force could this have to deterr men from sin , which is asserted to have no relation to it as the cause of it ? but when we say , that god laid our iniquities upon him , that he suffered not upon his own account but ours , that the sins we commit against god were the cause of all those bitter agonies which the son of , god underwent , what argument can be more proper to deterr men from sin than this is ? for hereby they see the great abhorrency of sin which is in god , that he will not pardon the sins of men without a compensation made to his honour , and a demonstration to the world of his hatred of it . hereby they see what a value god hath for his laws , which he will not relax as to the punishment of offenders , without so valuable a consideration as the blood of his own son. hereby they see , that the punishment of sin is no meer arbitrary thing depending barely upon the will of god ; but that there is such a connexion between sin and punishment as to the ends of government , that unless the honour and majesty of god , as to his laws and government ma● be preserved , the violation of his laws must expect a just recompence of reward ▪ hereby they see what those are to expect who neglect or despise these sufferings of the son of god for them ; for nothing can then remain , but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries . so that , here all the weighty arguments concur which may be most apt to prevail upon men to deterr them from their sins . for if god did thus by the green tree , what will he do by the dry ? if he who was so innocent in himself , so perfectly holy , suffered so much on the account of our sins ; what then may those expect to suffer , who have no innocency at all to plead , and add wilfulness and impenitency to their sins ? but if it be replied by crellius , that it is otherwise among men : i answer , that we do not pretend in all things to parallel the sufferings of christ for us , with any sufferings of men for one another . but yet we add , that even among men the punishments inflicted on those who were themselves innocent as to the cause of them , may be as exemplary as any other . and the greater appearance of severity there is in them , the greater terror they strike into all offenders . as children's losing their estates and honours , or being banished for their parents treasons in which they had no part themselves . which is a proper punishment on them of their father's faults , whether they be guilty or no ? and if this may be just in men ▪ why not in god ? if any say , that the parents are only punished in the children , he speaks that which is contradictory to the common sense of mankind ; for punishment doth suppose sense or feeling of it ; and in this case the parents are said to be punished , who are supposed to be dead and past feeling of it , and the children who undergo the smart of it must not be said to be punished ; though all things are so like it , that no person can imagine himself in that condition , but would think himself punished , and severely too . if it be said , that these are calamities indeed , but they are no proper punishments , it may easily be shewed that distinction will not hold here . because these punishments were within the design of the law , and were intended for all the ends of punishments , and therefore must have the nature of them . for therefore the children are involved in the father's punishment on purpose to deterr others from the like actions . there are some things indeed that children may fall into by occasion of their father's guilt , which may be only calamities to them , because they are ne●essary consequents in the nature of the thing , and not purposely design'd as a punishment to them . thus , being deprived of the comfort and assistance of their parents , when the law hath taken them off by the hand of justice : this was designed by the law as a punishment to the parents , and as to the children it is only a necessary consequent of their punishment . for otherwise the parents would have been punished for the childrens faults , and not the children only involved in that which unavoidably follows upon the parents punishment . so that crellius is very much mistaken either in the present case of our saviour's punishment , or in the general reason of exemplary punishments , as among men . but the case of our saviour is more exemplary , when we consider the excellency of his person , though appearing in our nature , when no meaner sufferings would satisfie , than of so transcendent a nature as he underwent , though he were the eternal son of god , this must make the punishment much more exemplary , than if he were considered only as our adversaries do , as a mere man. so that the dignity of his person under all his sufferings may justly add a greater consideration to deterr us from the practice of sin , which was so severely punished in him , when he was pleased to be a sacrifice for our sins . from whence we see that the ends of a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are very agreeable with the sufferings of christ considered as a punishment of sin . x. we now consider whether as crellius asserts , supposing christ's death were no punishment , it could have these effects upon mens minds or no ? yes , he saith , it might , because by his sufferings we might see how severely god would punish wicked and obstinate persons . which being a strange riddle at the first hearing it , viz. that by the sufferings of an innocent person without any respect to sin as the cause of them : we should discern god's severity against those who are obstinate in sin ; we ought the more diligently to attend to what is said for the clearing of it . first , saith he , if god spared not his own most innocent and holy and only son , than whom nothing was more dear to him in heaven or earth , but exposed him to so cruel and ignominious a death ; how great and severe sufferings may we think god will inflict on wicked men , who are at open defiance with him ? i confess my self not subtle enough to apprehend the force of this argument , viz. if god dealt so severely with him who had no sin either of his own or others to answer for ; therefore he will deal much more severely with those that have . for god's severity considered without any respect to sin , gives rather encouragement to sinners , than any argument to deterr them from it . for the natural consequence of it is , that god doth act arbitrarily , without any regard to the good or evil of mens actions ; and therefore it is to no purpose to be sollicitous about them . for upon the same account that the most innocent person suffers most severely from him , for all that we know , the more we strive to be innocent , the more severely we may be dealt with , and let men sin , they can be but dealt severely with ; all the difference then is , one shall be called punishments , and the other calamities , but the severity may be the same in both . and who would leave off his sins meerly to change the name of punishments into that of calamities ? and from hence it will follow , that the differences of good and evil , and the respects of them to punishment and reward , are but airy and empty things ; but that god really in the dispensation of things to men , hath no regard to what men are or do , but acts therein according to his own dominion , whereby he may dispose of men how or which way he pleases . if a prince had many of his subjects in open rebellion against him , and he should at that time make his most obedient and beloved son to be publickly exposed to all manner of indignities , and be dishonoured and put to death by the hands of those rebels ; could any one imagine that this was designed as an exemplary punishment to all rebels , to let them see the danger of rebellion ? no , but would it not rather make them think him a cruel prince , one that would punish innocency as much as rebellion ; and that it was rather better to stand at defiance , and become desperate , for it was more dangerous to be beloved than hated by him , to be his son than his declared enemy ? so that insisting on the death of christ as it is considered as a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( for of that we speak now ) there is no comparison between our adversaries hypothesis and ours ; but , saith crellius , the consequence is not good on our side , if christ suffered the punishment of our sins , therefore they shall suffer much more who continue in sin , for christ suffered for the sins of the whole world ; but they suffer only for their own , and what they have deserved themselves . to which i answer , that the argument is of very good force upon our hypothesis , though it would not be upon theirs . for if we suppose him to be a meer man that suffered , then there could be no argument drawn from his sufferings to ours , but according to the exact proportion of sins and punishments : but supposing that he had a divine as well as humane nature , there may not be so great a proportion of the sins of the world to the sufferings of christ , as of the sins of a particular person to his own sufferings ; and therefore the argument from one to the other doth still hold . for the measure of punishments must be taken with a proportion to the dignity of the person who suffers them . and crellius himself confesseth elsewhere , that the dignity of the person is to be considered in exemplary punishment , and that a lesser punishment of one that is very great , may do much more to deterr men from sin , than a greater punishment of one much less . but he yet further urgeth , that the severity of god against sinners may be discovered in the sufferings of christ , because god's hatred against sin is discovered therein . but if we ask how god's hatred against sin is seen in the sufferings of one perfectly innocent and free from sin , and not rather his hatred of innocency , if no respect to sin were had therein : he answers , that god's hatred against sin was manifested , in that he would not spare his only son to draw men off from sin . for answer to which , we are to consider the sufferings of christ as an innocent person , designed as an exemplary cause to draw men off from sin ; and let any one tell me , what hatred of sin can possibly be discovered , in proposing the sufferings of a most innocent person to them without any consideration of sin as the cause of those sufferings ? if it be said , that the doctrine of christ was designed to draw men off from sin ; and that god suffered his son to die to confirm this doctrine , and thereby shewed his hatred to sin . i answer , . this is carrying the dispute off from the present business , for we are not now arguing about the design of christ's doctrine , nor the death of christ as a means to confirm that , but as a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and what power that hath without respect to our sins as the cause of them , to draw us from sin , by discovering god's hatred to it . . the doctrine of christ according to their hypothesis , discovers much less of god's hatred to sin than ours doth . for if god may pardon sin without any compensation made to his laws or honour , if repentance be in its own nature a sufficient satisfaction for all the sins past of our lives ; if there be no such a justice in god which requires punishment of sin commi●ted ; if the punishment of sin depend barely upon god's will ; and the most innocent person may suffer as much from god without respect to sin as the cause of suffering , as the most guilty ; let any rational man judge whether this doctrine discovers as much god's abhorrency of sin , as asserting the necessity of vindicating god's honour to the world , upon the breach of his laws , if not by the suffering of the offenders themselves , yet of the son of god as a sacrifice for the expiation of sin , by undergoing the punishment of our iniquities , so as upon consideration of his sufferings , he is pleased to accept of repentance and sincere obedience , as the conditions upon which he will grant remission of sins , and eternal life . so that if the discovery of god's hatred to sin be the means to reclaim men from it , we assert upon the former reasons , that much more is done upon our doctrine concerning the sufferings of christ , than can be upon theirs . so much shall suffice to manifest in what sense christ's death may be a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and that this doth imply , that his sufferings are to be considered as a punishment of sin . xi . the next series of places which makes christ's sufferings to be a punishment for sin , are those which assert christ to be made sin and a curse for us , which we now design to make clear , ought to be understood in no other sense , for as grotius saith , as the iews sometimes use sin , for the punishment of sin ; as appears , besides other places , by zach. . ● . gen. . . so they call him that suffers the punishment of sin , by the name of sin ; as the latins use the word piaculum , both for the fault , and for him that suffers for it . thence under the law , an expiatory sacrifice for sin , was called sin , lev. . . — , . psal. . . which way of speaking esaias followed , speaking of christ , isai. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he made his soul sin , i. e. liable to the punishment of it . to the same purpose st. paul , cor. . . he made him to be sin for us , who knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him . to which crellius replies , that as there is no necessity , that by the name of sin , when applied to sufferings , any more should be implied , than that those sufferings were occasioned by sin , no more is there when it is applied to the person ; nay , much less , for he saith , no more is required to this , but that he should be handled as sinners use to be , and undergo the matter of punishment , without any respect to sin , either as the cause or occasion of it . so he saith , the name sinner is used , king. . . and in st. paul , the name of sin in the first clause is to be understood , as of righteousness in the latter ; and as we are said to be righteousness in him , when god deals with us as with righteous persons , so christ was said to be sin for us , when he was dealt with as a sinner . and the sacrifices for sin under the law were so called , not with a respect to the punishment of sin , but because they were offered upon the account of sin , and were used for taking away the guilt of it , or because men were bound to offer them , so that they sinned if they neglected it . so that all that is meant by esaias and st. paul is , that christ was made an expiatory sacrifice , or that he exposed himself for those afflictions which sinners only by right undergo . but let crellius or any others of them tell me , if the scripture had intended to express , that the sufferings of christ were a punishment of our sins , how was it possible to do it more emphatically than it is done by these expressions ( the custom of the hebrew language being considered ) not only by saying , that christ did bear our sins , but , that himself was made sin for us ? those phrases being so commonly used for the punishment of sin . let them produce any one instance in scripture , where those expressions are applied to any without the consideration of sin : that place , king. . . is very far from it ; for in all probability , the design of bathsheba in making solomon king was already discovered , which was the reason that adonijah his elder brother declaring himself king , invited not him with the rest of the king's sons : all that she had for solomon's succession , was a secret promise and oath of david ; and therefore she urgeth him now to declare the succession , v. . otherwise , she saith , when david should die , i and my son solomon shall be accounted offenders ; i. e. saith crellius , we shall be handled as offenders , we shall be destroyed : but surely not without the supposition of a fault ; by them which should inflict that punishment upon them : the plain meaning is , they should be accused of treason , and then punished accordingly . but we are to consider , that still with a respect to them , who were the inflicters , a fault or sin is supposed as the reason of their punishment , either of their own or others . but of our saviour it is not said , that he should be counted as an offender by the iews ; for although that doth not take away his innocency , yet it supposeth an accusation of something , which in it self deserves punishment . but in esai . . . it is said , he made his soul sin ; and cor. . . that god made him sin for us , which must therefore imply , not being dealt with by men only as a sinner , but that with a respect to him who inflicted the punishment , there was a consideration of sin as the reason of it . we do not deny but god's suffering him to be dealt with as a sinner by men , is implied in it , for that was the method of his punishment designed ; but we say further , that the reason of that permission in god , doth suppose some antecedent cause of it : for god would never have suffered his only son , to be so dealt with by the hands of cruel men , unless he had made himself an offering for sin ; being willing to undergo those sufferings , that he might be an expiatory sacrifice for the sins of the world . and although socinus will not yield , that by being made sin for us should be understood christ's being an expiatory sacrifice for sin ; yet crellius is contented it should be so taken in both places : which if he will grant , so as by vertue of that sacrifice , the guilt of sin is expiated , we shall not contend with him about the reasons , why those sacrifices were called sins , although the most proper and genuine must needs be that , which is assigned by the law , that the sins of the people were supposed to be laid upon them , and therefore they were intended for the expiation of them : but it is very unreasonable to say , that expiatory sacrifices were called sins , because it would have been a sin to neglect them : for on the same account , all the other sacrifices must have been called so too ; for it was a sin to neglect any where god required them , and so there had been no difference between sacrifices for sin and others . to that reason of crellius , from our being made righteous , because dealt with as such , to christ's being made sin only , because dealt with as a sinner , we need no more than what this parallel will afford us ; for as crellius would never say , that any are dealt with as righteous persons , who are not antecedently supposed to be so by his own argument , christ being dealt with as a sinner , must suppose guilt antecedent to it ; and since the apostle declares it was not his own , in those words , who knew no sin , it follows that it must be the consideration of ours , which must make him be dealt with as a sinner by him , who made him to be sin for us . but to suppose that christ should be said to be made sin , without any respect to sin , is as much as if the latins should call any one scelus , and mean thereby a very honest man ; or a piaculum , without any supposition of his own or others guilt . but we are to consider , that the sufferings of christ , seeming at first so inconsistent with that relation to god as his only son , which the apostles assert concerning him , they were obliged to vindicate his innocency , as to men , and yet withal to shew , that with a respect to god , there was sufficient reason for his permission of his undergoing these sufferings . that he knew no sin , was enough to clear his innocency as to men ; but then the question will be asked , if he were so innocent , why did god suffer all those things to come upon him ? did not abraham plead of old with god , that he would not slay the righteous with the wicked , because it was repugnant to the righteousness of his nature to do so ; that be far from thee to do after this manner , to slay the righteteous with the wicked , and that the righteous should be as the wicked , that be far from thee ; shall not the iudge of all the earth do right ? how then comes god to suffer the most perfect innocency to be dealt with so , as the greatest sins could not have deserved worse from men ? was not his righteousness the same still ? and abraham did not think the distinction of calamities and punishments , enough to vindicate god's proceedings , if the righteous should have been dealt withal as the wicked ▪ and if that would hold for such a measure of righteousness as might be supposed in such who were not guilty of the great abominations of those places , that it should be enough , not only to deliver themselves , but the wicked too ; how comes it that the most perfect obedience of the son of god , is not sufficient to excuse him from the greatest sufferings of malefactors ? but if his sufferings had been meerly from men , god had been accountable only for the bare permission ; but it is said , that he fore-ordained and determined these things to be , that christ himself complained , that god had forsaken him ; and here , that he made him sin for us : and can we imagine all this to be without any respect to the guilt of sin , as the cause of it ? why should such an expression be used of being made sin ? might not many others have served sufficiently to declare the indignities and sufferings he underwent , without such a phrase as seems to reflect upon christ's innocency ? if there had been no more in these expressions than our adversaries imagine , the apostles were so careful of christ's honour , they would have avoided such ill-sounding expressions as these were ; and not have affected hebraisms , and uncouth forms of speech , to the disparagement of their religion . but this is all which our adversaries have to say , where words are used by them out of their proper sense , that the prophets and apostles affected tricks of wit , playing with words , using them sometimes in one sense , and presently quite in another . so crellius saith of isaiah , that he affects little elegancies of words and verbal allusions , which makes him use words sometimes out of their proper and natural sense ; thence he tells us , the sufferings of christ are called chastisements , though they have nothing of the nature of chastisements in them : and from this liberty of interpreting , they make words ( without any other reason , than that they serve for their purpose ) be taken in several senses in the same verse : for socinus in one verse of st. iohn's gospel , makes the world to be taken in three several senses : he was in the world , there it is taken , saith he , for the men of the world in general : the world was made by him , there it must be understood only of the reformation of things by the gospel : and , the world knew him not , there it must be taken in neither of the former senses , but for the wicked of the world : what may not one make of the scripture , by such a way of interpreting it ? but by this we have the less reason to wonder , that socinus should put such an interpretation upon gal. . . christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law , being made a curse for us ; for it is written , cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree : in which he doth acknowledge by the curse , in the first clause to be meant , the punishment of sin , but not in the second : and the reason he gives for it is , amavit enim paulus in execrationis verbo argutus esse . st. paul affected playing with the word curse , understanding it first in a proper , and then a metaphorical sense . but it is plain that the design of s. paul and socinus are very different in these words : socinus thinks he speaks only metaphorically , when he saith , that christ was made a curse for us ; i. e. by a bare allusion of the name , without a correspondency in the thing it self ; and so that the death of christ might be called a curse , but was not so : but st. paul speaks of this not by way of extenuation , but to set forth the greatness and weight of the punishment he underwent for us . he therefore tells us , what it was which christ did redeem us from , the curse of the law ; and how he did it , by being not only made a curse , but a curse for us ; i. e. not by being hateful to god , or undergoing the very same curse , which we should have done ; which are the two things objected by crellius against our sense ; but that the death of christ was to be considered , not as a bare separation of soul and body , but as properly poenal , being such a kind of death , which none but malefactors by the law were to suffer ; by the undergoing of which punishment in our stead , he redeemed us from that curse which we were liable to by the violation of the law of god. and there can be no reason to appropriate this only to the iews , unless the death of christ did extend only to the deliverance of them from the punishment of their sins ; or because the curse of the law did make that death poenal , therefore the intention of the punishment , could reach no further than the law did ; but the apostle in the very next words speaks of the farther extension of the great blessing promised to abraham , that it should come upon the gentiles also ; and withal those whom the apostle speaks to , were not iews , but such as thought they ought to joyn the law and gospel together : that st paul doth not mean as crellius would have it , that christ by his death did confirm the new covenant , and so take away the obligation of the law ; ( for to what end was the curse mentioned for that ? what did the accursedness of his death add to the confirmation of the truth of his doctrine ? and when was ever the curse taken for the continuance of the law of moses ? ) but that christ by the efficacy of his death as a punishment for sin hath redeemed all that believe and obey him from the curse deserved by their sins , whether inforced by the law of moses , or the law written in their hearts , which tells the consciences of sinners , that such who violate the laws of god are worthy of death , and therefore under the curse of the law. xii . we come now to the force of the particles which being joyned with our sins as referring to the death of christ , do imply that his death is to be considered as a punishment of sin . not that we insist on the force of those particles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as though of themselves they did imply this ( for we know they are of various significations according to the nature of the matter they are joyned with ) but that these being joyned with sins and suffering together , do signifie that those sufferings are the punishment of those sins . thus it is said of christ , that he dyed , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for our sins , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that he suffered once 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that he gave himself 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that he offered a sacrifice 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . to which crellius replies , that if the force of these particles not being joyned with sufferings , may be taken for the final and not for the impulsive cause , they may retain the same sense when joyned with sufferings , if those sufferings may be designed in order to an end ; but if it should be granted , that those phrases being joyned with sufferings , do always imply a meritorious cause , yet it doth not follow , it should be here so understood because the matter will not bear it . to this a short answer will at present serve : for , it is not possible a meritorious cause can be expressed more emphatically than by these words being joyned to sufferings : so that we have as clear a testimony from these expressions as words can give ; and by the same arts by which these may be avoided any other might ; so that it had not been possible for our doctrine to have been expressed in such a manner , but such kind of answers might have been given as our adversaries now give . if it had been said in the plainest terms , that christ's death was a punishment for our sins , they would as easily have avoided the force of them as they do of these ; they would have told us the apostles delighted in an antanaclasis , and had expressed things different from the natural use of the words by them ; and though punishment were sometimes used properly , yet here it must be used only metaphorically because the matter would bear no other sense . and therefore i commend the ingenuity of socinus after all the pains he had taken to enervate the force of those places which are brought against his doctrine ; he tells us plainly , that if our doctrine were not only once , but frequently mentioned in scripture ? yet he would not therefore believe the thing to be so as we suppose . for , saith he , seeing the thing it self cannot be , i take the least inconvenient interpretation of the words ; and draw forth such a sense from them , as is most consistent with itself and the tenor of the scripture . but for all his talking of the tenor of the scripture ; by the same reason he interprets one place upon these terms , he will do many , and so the tenor of the scripture shall be never against him : and by this we find , that the main strength of our adversaries is not pretended to lie in the scriptures ; all the care they have of them is only to reconcile them if possible with their hypothesis ; for they do not deny but that the natural force of the words doth imply what we contend for ; but because they say the doctrine we assert is inconsistent with reason , therefore all their design is to find out any other possible meaning which they therefore assert to be true , because more agreeable to the common reason of mankind . this therefore is enough for our present purpose , that if it had been the design of scripture to have expressed our sense , it could not have done it in plainer expressions than it hath done , that no expressions could have been used , but the same arts of our adversaries might have been used to take off their force , which they have used to those we now urge against them , and that setting aside the possibility of the thing , the scripture doth very fairly deliver the doctrine we contend for ; or , supposing in point of reason there may be arguments enough to make it appear possible , there are scriptures enough to make it appear true . chap. iii. i. the words of scripture being at last acknowledged by our adversaries to make for us , the only pretence remaining is , that our doctrine is repugnant to reason . the debate managed upon point of reason . the grand difficulty enquired into , and manifested by our adversaries concessions , not to lie in the greatness of christ's sufferings , or that our sins were the impulsive cause of them , or that it is impossible that one should be punished for anothers faults : or in all cases unjust . ii. the cases wherein crellius allows it , instanced . from whence it is proved that he yields the main cause . iii. the arguments propounded whereby he attempts to prove it unjust for christ to be punished for our sins . crellius his principles of the justice of punishments examined . of the relation between desert and punishment . iv. that a person by his own consent may be punished beyond the desert of his own actions . v. an answer to crellius his objections . what it is to suffer undeservedly . crellius his mistake in the state of the question . vi. the instances of scripture considered . in what sense children are punished for their parents sins . vii . ezek. . . explained at large . viii . whether the guilty being freed from the sufferings of an innocent person makes that punishment unjust or no ? crellius his shifts and evasions in this matter discovered . why among men the offenders are not freed in criminal matters though the sureties be punished . the release of the party depends on the terms of the sureties suffering , therefore deliverance not ipso facto . no necessity of such a translation in criminal , as is in pecuniary matters . i. having gained so considerable concessions from our adversaries concerning the places of scripture , we come now to debate the matter in point of reason . and if there appear to be nothing repugnant in the nature of the thing , or to the justice of god , then all their loud clamours will come to nothing ; for on that they fix , when they talk the most of our doctrine being contrary to reason . this therefore we now come more closely to examine , in order to which we must carefully enquire what it is they lay the charge of injustice in god upon , according to our belief of christ's sufferings being a punishment for our sins . . it is not , that the offenders themselves do not undergo the full punishment of their sins . for they assert , that there is no necessity at all that the offenders should be punished from any punitive justice in god : for they eagerly contend that god may freely pardon the sins of men : if so , then it can be no injustice in god not to punish the offenders according to the full desert of their sins . . it is not , that god upon the sufferings of christ doth pardon the sins of men : for they yield that god may do this without any charge of injustice , and with the greatest demonstration of his kindness . for they acknowledge , that the sufferings of christ are not to be considered as a bare antecedent condition to pardon , but that they were a moving cause as far as the obedience of christ in suffering was very acceptable to god. . it is not , in the greatness or matter of the sufferings of christ. for they assert the same which we do . and therefore i cannot but wonder to meet sometimes with those strange out-crys of our making god cruel in the punishing of his son for us : for what do we assert that christ suffered , which they do not assert too ? nay , doth it not look much more like cruelty in god to lay those sufferings upon him without any consideration of sin ? as upon their hypothesis he doth ; than to do it supposing he bears the punishment of our iniquities , which is the thing we plead for . they assert all those sufferings to be lawful on the account of god●s dominion , which according to them must cease to be so on the supposition of a meritorious cause . but however from this it appears , that it was not unjust that christ should suffer those things which he did for us : the question then is , whether it were unjust that he should suffer the same things , which he might lawfully do on the account of dominion with a respect to our sins as the cause of them . . as to this , they acknowledge , that it is not , that the sufferings of christ were occasioned by our sins , or that our sins were the bare impulsive cause of those sufferings . for they both confess in general , that one mans sins may be the occasion of anothers punishment , so far that he might have escaped punishment , if the others sins had not been the impulsive cause of it . and therefore crellius in the general state of this question , would not have it , whether it be unjust to punish one for anothers sins ; for that he acknowledges it is not , but whether , for any cause whatsoever it be just to punish an innocent person ? and likewise in particular of christ , they confess , that our sins were the impulsive cause , and the occasion of his sufferings . . it is not , that there is so necessary a relation between guilt and punishment , that it cannot be called a punishment which is inflicted on an innocent person . for crellius , after a long discourse of the difference of afflictions and punishments , doth acknowledge , that it is not of the nature of punishment , that the person who is to be punished , should really deserve the punishment ; and afterwards when grotius urgeth , that though it be essential to punishment , that it be inflicted for sin , yet it is not , that it be inflicted upon him who hath himself sinned , which he shews , by the similitude of rewards , which though necessary to be given in consideration of service , may yet be given to others besides the person himself upon his account . all this crellius acknowledgeth ; who saith , they do not make it necessary to the nature , but to the justice of punishment , that it be inflicted upon none but the person who hath offended . so by his own confession , it is not against the nature of punishment , that no one man suffer for anothers faults . from whence it follows , that all socinus his arguments signifie nothing , which are drawn from the impossibility of the thing , that one man should be punished for anothers faults ; for crellius grants the thing to be possible , but denies it to be just ; yet not absolutely neither , but with some restrictions and limitations . for , ii. . it is not , but that there may be sufficient causes assigned in some particular cases ; wherein it may be just for god to punish some for the sins of others . for crellius himself hath assigned divers . when there is such a near conjunction between them , that one may be said to be punished in the punishment of another : as parents in their children and posterity , kings in their subjects , or the body of a state in its members , either in the most , or the most principal , though the fewest : but we are to consider how far he doth extend this way of punishment of some in others . . at the greatest distance of time , if they have been of the same nation ; for he extends it to the utmost degree of god's patience towards a people ; for , saith he , god doth not presently punish as soon as they have sinned ; but spares for a great while , and forbears , in expectation of their repentance , in the mean while a great many guilty persons die , and seem to have escaped punishment . but at last the time of god●s patience being past , he punisheth their posterity by exacting the full punishment of their sins upon them , and by this means punisheth their ancestors too , and punisheth their sins in their punishment ; for , saith he , all that people are reckoned for one man of several ages , and that punishment which is taken of the last , may be for the sins of the first , for the conjunction and succession of them : of which we have an example , saith he , in the destruction of ierusalem . by which we see a very remote conjunction , and a mere similitude in comparing a succession of ages in a people with those in a man , may ( when occasion serves ) be made use of to justifie god's punishing one generation of men for the sins of others that have been long before . . when sins are more secret or less remarkable which god might not punish , unless an occasion were given from others sins impelling him to it ; but because god would punish one very near them , he therefore punisheth them , that in their punishment he might punish the other . or in case sins spread through a family or a people , or they are committed by divers persons at sundry times , which god doth not severely punish , but sometimes then , when the head of a people or family hath done something which remarkably deserves punishment , whom he will punish in those he is related to , and therefore generally punisheth the whole family or people . . that which may be a meer exercise of dominion as to some , may be a proper punishment to others ; as in the case of infants , being taken away for their parents sins ; for god , as to the children , he saith , useth only an act of dominion , but the punishment only redounds to the parents , who lose them ; and though this be done for the very end of punishment , yet he denies , that it hath the nature of punishment in any but the parents . . that punishment may be intended for those who can have no sense at all of it ; as crellius asserts in the case of saul's sons , sam. . , . that the punishment was mainly intended for saul , who was already dead . from these concessions of crellius in this case , we may take notice , . that a remote conjunction may be sufficient for a translation of penalty , viz. from one generation to another . . that sins may be truly said to be punished in others , when the offenders themselves may escape punishment , thus the sins of parents in their children , and princes in their subjects . . that an act of dominion in some may be designed as a proper punishment to others . . that the nature of punishment is not to be measured by the sense of it . now upon these concessions , though our adversaries will not grant , that christ was properly punished for our sins , yet they cannot deny but that we may very properly be said to be punished for our sins in christ , and if they will yield us this , the other may be a strife about words . for surely there may be easily imagined as great a conjunction between christ and us , as between the several generations of the iews , and that last which was punished in the destruction of ierusalem : and though we escape that punishment which christ did undergo , yet we might have our sins punished in him , as well as princes theirs in their subjects , when they escape themselves ; or rather as subjects in an innocent prince , who may suffer for the faults of his people ; if it be said , that these are acts of meer dominion as to such a one , that nothing hinders but granting it , yet our sins may be said to be punished in him ; as well as parents sins are punished properly in meer acts of dominion upon their children ; if it be said , that can be no punishment where there is no sense at all of it , that is fully taken off by crellius ; for surely we have as great a sense of the sufferings of christ , as the first generation of the iews had of the sufferings of the last , before the fatal destruction of the city , or as saul had of the punishment of his sons after his death . so that from crellius his own concessions , we have proved , that our sins may very properly be said to be punished in christ , although he will not say , that christ could be properly punished for our sins ; nay he and the rest of our adversaries not only deny it , but earnestly contend , that it is very unjust to suppose it , and repugnant to the rectitude of god's nature to do it . iii. and so we come to consider the mighty arguments that are insisted on for the proof of this , which may be reduced to these three ; viz. . that there can be no punishment but what is deserved , but no man can deserve that another should be punished . . that punishment flows from revenge , but there can be no revenge where there hath been no fault . . that the punishment of one , cannot any ways be made the punishment of another ; and in case it be supposed possible , then those in whose stead the other is punished , must be actually delivered upon the payment of that debt which was owing to god. . that one man cannot deserve anothers punishment , and therefore one cannot be punished for another ; for there is no just punishment , but what is deserved . this being the main argument insisted on by crellius , must be more carefully considered ; but before an answer be made to it , it is necessary that a clear account be given in what sense it is he understands it , which will be best done , by laying down his principles , as to the justice of punishments , in a more distinct method than himself hath done ; which are these following : . that no person can be justly punished , either for his own or anothers faults , but he that hath deserved to be punished by some sin of his own : for he still asserts , that the justice of punishment ariseth from a mans own fault , though the actual punishment may be from anothers : but he that is punished without respect to his own guilt , is punished undeservedly ; and he that is punished undeservedly , is punished unjustly . . that personal guilt being supposed one man's sin may be the impulsive cause of another's punishment , but they cannot be the meritorious . the difference between them he thus explains , the cause is that which makes a thing to be ; the impulsive , that which moves one to do a thing , without any consideration of right that one hath to do it : merit , is that which makes a man worthy of a thing , either good or bad , and so gives a right to it ; if it be good , to himself ; if bad , to him at whose hands he hath deserved it . now he tells us , that it is impossible . that one mans sins should make any other deserve punishment , but the person who committed them ; but they may impell one to punish another , and that justly , if the person hath otherwise deserved to be punished , unjustly if he hath not . the reason he gives of it is , that the vitiosity of the act , which is the proper cause of punishment , cannot go beyond the person of the offender ; and therefore can oblige none to punishment , but him that hath committed the fault . and therefore he asserts , that no man can be justly punished beyond the desert of his own sins , but there may sometimes be a double impulsive cause of that punishment ; viz. his own and other mens , whereof one made that they might be justly punished , the other that they should be actually : but the latter , he saith , always supposeth the former , as the foundation of just punishment ; so that no part of punishment could be executed upon him , wherein his own sins were not supposed as the meritorious cause of it . these are his two main principles which we must now throughly examine , the main force of his book lying in them . but if we can prove that it hath been generally received by the consent of mankind , that a person may be punished beyond the desert of his own actions ; if god hath justly punished some for the sins of others , and there be no injustice in one mans suffering by his own consent for another , then these principles of crellius will be found not so firm as he imagines them . iv. . that it hath been generally received by the consent of mankind , that a person may be justly punished beyond the desert of his own actions . for which purpose grotius objected against socinus ( who appealed to the consent of nations , about one being punished for anothers fault ) that the heathens did agree , that children might be punished for their parents faults , and people for their princes , and that corporal punishment might be born by one for another , did appear by the persians punishing the whole family for the fault of one . the macedonians the near kindred in the case of treason ; some cities of greece , destroying the children of tyrants together with them ; in all which , the mere conjunction was supposed a sufficient reason without consent ; but in case of consent , he saith , they all agreed in the justice of some being punished for the faults of others . thence the right of killing hostages among the most civilized nations ; and of sureties being punished in capital matters , if the guilty appear not , who were thence called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , who were bound to answer body for body . in which cases , the punishment did extend beyond the desert of the person who suffered it ; for no other reason is assigned of these sufferings , besides the conjunction of the person , or his consent ; but no antecedent guilt is supposed as necessary , to make the punishment just . we are now to consider what crellius doth answer to this : . as to their acknowledgments of god's punishing children for their parents faults , he gives the same answer which he doth to the examples recorded in scripture to that purpose , that either they were punished for the sins of others , but their own sins deserved the punishment ; or that the parents were punished in the children , but the children were not properly punished . . as to punishments among men , he answers two things ; . that such persons were truly punished , but not justly : for he acknowledges , that in such a case it is a proper punishment , and that it is enough in order to that , that any fault be charged upon a person , whether his own or anothers , whether true or false , on the account of which he is supposed worthy to be punished : and that such a conjunction is sufficient for cruel , angry , or imprudent men : for where-ever there is a place , saith he , for anger , there is likewise for punishment . so that he confesseth , there may be a true punishment , and that which answers all the reason and ends of punishment assigned by him where there is no desert at all of it in the person who undergoes it . but then he adds , that this is an unjust punishment , to which i reply , that then the reason of punishment assigned by crellius before is insufficient ; for if this answers all the ends of punishments assigned by him , and yet be unjust , then it necessarily follows , that those ends of punishment are consistent with the greatest injustice . for he before made punishment to have a natural respect to anger , and makes the ordinary end of punishment to be a satisfaction of the desire of revenge in men , yet now grants , that these may be in an unjust punishment . neither can it be said , that he considered punishment only naturally , and not morally ; for he tells us , that this is the nature of divine punishments , which are therefore just , because designed for these ends ; but in case there be no supposal of a fault at all , then he denies that it is a punishment , but only an affliction , and an exercise of dominion . so that according to him , where-ever there is a proper punishment , it must be just , when ever god doth punish men : and the only difference between god and man supposable in this case is , that we have assurance god will never use his dominion unjustly ; but that men do so when they make one to suffer for anothers fault , notwithstanding a consent and conjunction between the man that committed the fault , and the person that suffers for him . but this is begging the thing in question , for we are debating , whether it be an unlawful exercise of power or no ? for we have this presumption , that it is not unlawful , because it may answer all the ends of punishments , and what way can we better judge , whether a punishment be just or no , than by that ? v. but we are to consider , that we do not here take the person we speak of , abstractly as an innocent person , for then there is no question , but anger and punishment of one as such is unjust ; but of an innocent person as supposed under an obligation by his own consent to suffer for another . and in this case we assert , since according to crellius the natural and proper ends of punishments may be obtained , and the consent of the person takes away the wrong done to him in the matter of his sufferings , so far as he hath power over himself , that such a punishment is not unjust . for if it be , it must suppose some injury to be done ; but in this case let them assign where the injury lies ; it cannot be to the publick , if the ends of punishments may be obtained by such a suffering of one for another by a valid consent of the suffering party , it cannot be to the person in whose room the other suffers , for what injury is that to escape punishment by anothers suffering ; it cannot be to the suffering person , supposing that to be true , which the heathens still supposed , viz. that every man had a power over his own life . if it be said still , that the injustice lies in this ; that such a one suffers undeservedly , and therefore unjustly . i answer ; if be meant by undeservedly without sufficient cause or reason of punishment , then we deny that such a one doth suffer undeservedly . immerito in the greek glosses is rendred by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and merito by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and in cicero , jure & merito are most commonly joyned together . so that where there is a right to punish , and sufficient reason for it , such a one doth not suffer immerito , i. e. undeservedly . if it be said , that such a one is not dignus poena , that implies no more than the other , for dignus , or as the ancients writ it dicnus , comes from the greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 jus , as vossius tells us , ut dignus sit cui tribui aliquid aequum est : so that where there is an equity in the thing , there is a dignity in the person , or he may be said to be worthy to undergo it . but doth not this lay open the greatest innocency to as great a desert of sufferings , as the highest guilt ? by no means . for we make a lyableness to punishment , the natural consequent of guilt : and he that hath committed a fault , cannot but deserve to be punished , so that no sufferings of others can take away the natural consequence of a bad action , which is a desert of punishment ; so that as we say , a wicked action cannot but deserve to be punished , i. e. there is an agreeableness in reason and nature , that he who hath done ill , should suffer ill ; so we say likewise there is necessity in nature and reason , that he that hath thus deserved it , must unavoidably suffer it . and on the other side , we say , no man by his innocency can deserve to be punished , i. e. no man's innocency makes him by vertue of that obnoxious to punishment ; but yet we add , that notwithstanding his innocency , the circumstances may be such that he may be justly punished , and in that sense deservedly . so that the question is strangely mistaken , when it is thus put , whether an innocent person considered as such , may be justly punished ; for no one asserts that , or is bound to do it ; but the true question is , whether a person notwithstanding his innocency may not by some act of his own will oblige himself to undergo that punishment which otherwise he did not deserve ? which punishment , in that case is just and agreeable to reason . and this is that which we assert and plead for . so that innocency here is not considered any other ways , than whether that alone makes it an unlawfull punishment , which otherwise would be lawfull , i. e. whether the magistrate in such cases , where substitution is admittable by the laws of nations ( as in the cases we are now upon ) be bound to regard any more than that the obligation to punishment now lies upon the person who by his own act hath substituted himself in the others room ; and if he proceeds upon this , his action is justifiable and agreeable to reason . if it be said , that the substitution is unjust , unless the substituted person hath before-hand deserved to be punished ; it is easily answered , that this makes not the matter at all clearer ; for either the person is punished for the former fault , and then there is no substitution ; or if he be punished by way of substitution ; then there is no regard at all had to his former fault , and so it is all one as if he were perfectly innocent . vi. and by this crellius his answer to the instances both in scripture and elsewhere concerning childrens being punished for their parents faults , will appear to be insufficient , viz. that god doth never punish them for their parents faults beyond the desert of their own sins , and therefore no argument can be drawn from thence , that god may punish an innocent person for the sins of others , because he hath punished some for what they were innocent : for the force of the argument doth not lie in the supposition of their innocency , as to the ground of punishment in general , for we do not deny , but that they may deserve to be punished for their own faults : but the argument lies in this , whether their own guilt were then considered as the reason of punishment , when god did punish them for their fathers faults ? and whether they by their own sins did deserve to be punished not only with the punishment due to their own miscarriages , but with the punishment due to their fathers too ? if not , then some persons are justly punished , who have not deserved that punishment they undergo ; if they did deserve it , then one person may deserve to be punished for anothers sins . if it be said , as it is by crellius , that his own sins make him capable of punishment , and god by occasion of others sins doth execute that punishment , which he might not have done for his own . i answer , we are not enquiring into the bare capacity of punishing , but into the reason of it : was the reason of punishment his own or his fathers sins ? if his own , then he was punished only for his own sins ? if his fathers , then the punishment may be just which is inflicted without consideration of proper desert of it ; for no man ( say they ) can deserve to be punished , but for his own sins . but it 's said , that the sins of fathers are only an impulsive cause for god to punish the children according to the desert of their own sins which he might otherwise have forborn to punish . then , the sins of the fathers are no reason why the children should be punished ; but their own sins are the reason , and their fathers the bare occasion of being punished for them . but in scripture , the reason of punishment is drawn from the fathers sins , and not from the childrens : for then the words would have run thus , if the children sin , and deserve punishment by their own iniquities , then i will take occasion from their fathers sins , to visit their own iniquities upon them : whereas the words referr to the fathers sins as the reason of the childrens punishment . so in the words of the law , wherein the reason of punishment ought to be most expresly assigned , it is not , i will certainly punish the children , if they continue in the idolatry of their fathers ; but , i will visit the sins of the fathers upon the children , unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me . if it were only because of imitation of the fathers sins by the children , there could be no reason for the limitation to the third and fourth generation ; for then the reason of punishment would be as long as the imitation continued , whether to the fourth or tenth generation : and as alphonsus à castro observes , if the reason of punishment were the imitation of their fathers sins , then the children were not punished for their fathers sins , but for their own ; for that imitation was a sin of their own , and not of their fathers . besides , if the proper reason of punishment were the sins of the children , and the fathers sins only the occasion of it , then where it is mentioned that children are punished for their parents sins , the childrens sins should have been particularly expressed , as the proper cause of the punishment : but no other reason is assigned in the law , but the sins of the fathers , no other cause mentioned of canaan's punishment , but his father's sin ; nor of the punishment of the people in david's time , but his own sin ; lo , i have sinned , and i have done wickedly , but these sheep , what have they done ? which is no hyperbolical expression , but the assigning the proper cause of that judgment to have been his own sin , as the whole chapter declares : nor , of the hanging up of saul's sons by the gibeonites , but , that saul their father had plotted their destruction . and in an instance more remarkable than any of those which crellius answers ; viz. the punishment of the people of iudah , for the sins of manasses in the time of iosias ; when a through reformation was designed among them , the prince being very good , and all the places of idolatry destroyed , such a passover kept as had not been kept before in the time of any king in israel , yet it then follows , notwithstanding the lord turned not from the fierceness of his great wrath , wherewith his anger was kindled against iudah , because of all the provocations wherewith manasses had provoked him withal . who can say here , that the sins of manasseh were only the occasion of god punishing the people in the time of iosias for their own sins , when their sins were much less in the time of iosias , than in any time mentioned before , after their lapse into idolatry ? nay , it is expresly said , that iosiah took away all the abominations out of all the countries that pertained to the children of israel , and made all that were present in israel to serve , even to serve the lord their god. and all his days they departed not from following the lord god of their fathers : to say , that th●s was done in hypocrisie , and bare outward compliance , is to speak without book ; and if the reason of so severe punishments had been their hypocrisie , that ought to have been mentioned ; but not only here , but afterwards it is said , that the reason of god's destroying iudah , was for the sins of manasseh ; viz. his idolatries and murther , which it is said , the lord will not pardon . and if he would not pardon , then he did punish for those sins , not barely as the occasion , but as the meritorious cause of that punishment . what shall we say then ? did the people in iosiah's time , deserve to be punished for the sins of manasseh , grandfather to iosiah ? or was god so highly provoked with those sins , that although he did not punish manasseh himself upon his repentance , yet he would let the world see how much he abh●rred them , by punishing those sins upon the people afterwards ; although according to the usual proportion of sins and punishments , the sins of the people in that age did not exceed the sins of other ages , as much as the punishments they suffered , did exceed the punishments of other ages : which is necessary according to crellius his doctrine ; for if god never punisheth by occasion of their fathers sins , the children beyond the desert of their own sins ; then it is necessary , that where judgments are remarkably greater , the sins must be so too ; the contrary to which is plain in this instance . by which we see , that it is not contrary to the justice of god in punishing , to make the punishment of some on the account of others sins , to exceed the desert of their own ; measuring that desert , not in a way common to all sin , but when the desert , of some sins is compared with the desert of others : for it is of this latter we speak of , and of the method which god useth in punishing sin here , for the demonstration of his hatred of it , according to which the greatest punishments must suppose the greatest sins , either of their own , or others which they suffer for . vii . but hath not god declared , that he will never punish the children for the fathers sins ? for the soul that sinneth it shall die ; the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father , &c. to which i answer , these words are to be considered , as an answer to a complaint made by the iews , soon after their going into captivity , which they imputed to god's severity in punishing them for their fathers sins . now the complaint was either true or false ; if it were true , then though this was looked upon as great severity in god , yet it was no injustice in him ; for though god may act severely , he cannot act unjustly : if it was false , then the answer had been an absolute denial of it , as a thing repugnant to the justice of god. which we do not find here , but that god saith unto them , v. . ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in israel : if the thing had been plainly unjust , which they complained of , he would have told them , they never had occasion to use it . but we find the prophets telling them before-hand , that they should suffer for their fathers sins , ier. . , . where he threatens them with destruction and banishment , because of the sins of manasseh in ierusalem ; and in the beginning of the captivity they complain of this , lam. . . our fathers have sinned , and are not , and we have born their iniquities . and ier. . . god saith by the prophet , that he had watched over them to pluck up , and to pull down , and to destroy , and to afflict : but that he would watch over them to build , and to plant , and in those days they shall say no more , the fathers have eaten sowre grapes and the childrens teeth are set on edge ; but every one shall die for his own iniquity . which place is exactly parallel with this in ezekiel , and gives us a clear account of it , which is , that now indeed god had dealt very severely with them , by making them suffer beyond what in the ordinary course of his providence their sins had deserved ; but he punished them not only for their own sins , but the sins of their fathers : but lest they should think , they should be utterly consumed for their iniquities , and be no longer a people enjoying the land which god had promised them , he tells them by the prophets , though they had smarted so much , by reason of their fathers sins , this severity should not always continue upon them ; but that god would visit them with his kindness again , and would plant them in their own land , then they should see no reason to continue this proverb among them , for they would then find , though their fathers had eaten sowre grapes , their teeth should not be always set on edge with it . and if we observe it , the occasion of the proverb , was concerning the land of israel , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 supra terra israel , as the chaldee paraphrast renders it more agreeable to the hebrew , than the other versions do . so that the land of israel was the occasion of the proverb , by their being banished out of it for their fathers sins . now god tells them , they should have no more occasion to use this proverb concerning the land of israel ; for they , notwithstanding their fathers sins , should return into their own land. and even during the continuance of their captivity , they should not undergo such great severities for the future , but they should find their condition much more tolerable than they imagined ; only , if any were guilty of greater sins than others , they should themselves suffer for their own faults , but he would not punish the whole nation for them or their own posterity . this i take to be the genuine meaning of this place ; and i the rather embrace it , because i find such insuperable difficulties in other interpretations that are given of it : for to say as our adversaries do , that what god saith , should not be for the future , was repugnant to his nature and justice ever to do , is to charge god plainly with injustice in what he had done : for the prophets told them they should suffer for the sins of their fathers : which sufferings were the ground of their complaint now , and the answer here given must relate to the occasion of the complaint ; for god saith , they should not have occasion to use that proverb : wherein is implyed , they should not have the same reason to complain which they had then . i demand then , do not these words imply , that god would not do for the future with them , what he had done before ; if not , the proper answer had been a plain denial , and not a promise for the future he would not ; if they do , then either god properly punished them for the sins of their fathers , and then god must be unjust in doing so , or it was just with god to do it , and so this place instead of overthrowing will prove , that some may be justly punished , beyond the desert of their own sins : or else , god did only take occasion by their fathers sins , to punish them according to the desert of their own iniquities : but then they had no cause to complain , that they were punished for any more than their own iniquities ; and withal , then god doth oblige himself by his promise here , never to punish men for the future by the occasion of others sins : which is not only contrary to their own doctrine , but to what is plainly seen afterwards in the punishment of the iews for their fathers sins , mentioned by our saviour after this : and if this be a certain rule of equity which god here saith , that he would never vary from , then the punishing of some on the occasion of others sins , would be as unjust , as our adversaries suppose the punishing any beyond the desert of their own sins to be . but is it not implyed , that gods ways would be unequal , if he ever did otherwise than he there said he would do ? no , it is not , if by equal he meant just , for his ways never were , or can be so unequal ; but here if it be taken with a respect to the main dispute of the chapter , no more is implied in them , but that they judged amiss concerning god's actions , and that they were just , when they thought them not to be so : or if at least they thought his ways very severe , though just , god by remitting of this severity , would shew that he was not only just , but kind ; and so they would find his ways equal , that is , always agreeable to themselves , and ending in kindness to them , though they hitherto were so severe towards them in their banishment and captivity . or if they be taken with a respect to the immediate occasion of them both , ezek. . — . they do not relate to this dispute about childrens suffering for their fathers sins ; but to another , which was concerning a righteous mans sinning and dying in his sins , and a wicked mans repenting , and living in his righteousness ; which were directly contrary to the common opinion of the iews to this day , which is , that god will judge men according to the greatest number of their actions good or bad : as appears by maimonides and others . now they thought it a very hard case , for a man who had been righteous the far greatest part of his time , if he did at last commit iniquity , that his former righteousness should signifie nothing , but he must die in his iniquity . to this therefore god answers , that it was only the inequality of their own ways , which made them think god's ways in doing so unequal . this then doth not make it unequal , for god either to punish men , upon the occasion , or by the desert of other mens sins , supposing such a conjunction between them , as there is in the same body of people , to those who went before them . and crellius himself grants , that socinus never intended to prove , that one mans suffering for anothers sins was unjust in it self , from this place : no , not though we take it in the strictest sense , for one suffering in the stead of another . viii . having thus far declared , how far it is agreeable to god's justice , to punish any persons either by reason of his dominion , or the conjunction of persons , for the sins of others , and consequently whether any punishment may be undergone justly beyond the proper desert of their own sins , i now return to the consent of mankind in it , on supposition either of a near conjunction , or a valid consent which must make up the want of dominion in men without it . and the question still proceeds upon the supposition of those things , that there be a proper dominion in men over that which they part with for others sakes , and that they do it by their free consent ; and then we justifie it not to be repugnant to the principles of reason and justice , for any to suffer beyond the desert of their own actions . and crellius his saying , that such a punishment is true punishment , but not just , is no answer at all to the consent of nations that it is so . and therefore finding this answer insufficient ; he relies upon another , viz. that it was never received by the consent of nations , that one man should suffer in the stead of another , so as the guilty should be freed by the others suffering . for , he saith , neither socinus nor he do deny that one man may be punished for anothers sins ; but that which they deny is , that ever the innocent were punished so as the guilty were freed by it ; and so he answers , in the case of hostages and sureties , their punishment did never excuse the offenders themselves . and to this purpose he saith , socinus his argument doth hold good , that tho' one mans money may become anothers , yet one mans sufferings cannot become anothers : for , saith he , if it could , then it would be all one who suffered , as it is who pays the money due : and then the offender must be presently released , as the debtor is upon payment of the debt . this is the substance of what is said by him upon this argument . to which i reply ; . that this gives up the matter in dispute at present between us ; for the present question is , whether it be unjust for any one to suffer beyond the desert of his own actions ? yes , saith crellius , it is , in case he suffers so , as that the guilty be freed by his sufferings . but we are not enquiring , whether it be just for another person to be freed for a mans suffering for him ? but whether it be just for that man to suffer by his own consent , more than his own actions , without that consent , deserved ? the release of another person by vertue of his sufferings , is a matter of another consideration . doth the freeing or not freeing of another by suffering , add any thing to the desert of suffering ? he that being wholly innocent , and doth suffer on the account of anothers fault , doth he not suffer as undeservedly , though another be not freed , as if he were ? as in the case of hostages or sureties , doth it make them at all the more guilty , because the persons they are concerned for , will be punished notwithstanding , if they come under the power of those who exacted the punishment upon them , who suffered for them ? nay , is not their desert of punishment so much the less , in as much as the guilty are still bound to answer for their own offences ? if we could suppose the guilty to be freed by the others sufferings , it would be by supposing their guilt more fully translated upon those who suffer , and consequently , a greater obligation to punishment following that guilt . from whence it follows , that if it be just to punish , when the person is not deliver'd from whom the other suffers , it is more just when he is ; for the translation of the penalty is much less in the former case , than in the latter ; and what is just upon less grounds of punishment , must be more just upon greater . i look on this therefore but as a shift of crellius , hoping thereby to avoid the consent of mankind in one mans suffering for another , without attending to the main argument he was upon ; viz. the justice of one person suffering for another . . it is a very unreasonable thing , to make an action unjust for that , which of it self is acknowledged by our adversaries to be very just ; viz. the pardoning the offenders themselves . if it were just to suffer , if the other were not pardoned , and it were just to pardon , whether the other were punished or no , how comes this suffering to be unjust , merely by the others being pardoned by it : nay , is it not rather an argument , that those sufferings are the most just , which do so fully answer all the ends of punishments ; that there is then no necessity that the offender should suffer ; but that the supreme governour having obtained the ends of government , by the suffering of one for the rest , declares himself so well pleased with it , that he is willing to pardon the offenders themselves . . many of those persons who have had their sins punished in others , have themselves escaped the punishment due to the desert of their sins : as is plain in the case of ahab , whose punishment was not so great as his sins deserved , because the full punishment of them was reserved to his posterity . if it be said , as it is by crellius , that ahab was not wholly freed , his life being taken away for his own sins : that gives no sufficient answer ; for if some part of the punishment was deferred , that part he was delivered from ; and the same reason in this case will hold for the whole as the part . as is plain in the case of manasseh , and several others , the guilt of whose sins were punished on their posterity , themselves escaping it . our adversaries confess , that in some cases it is lawful and just for some to suffer , with a design that others may be freed by their suffering for them . thus they assert , that one christian , not only may , but ought to lay down his life for another , if there be any danger of his denying the truth , or he judges him far more usefull and considerable than himself : so likewise a son for his father , one brother for another , or a friend , or any , whose life he thinks more usefull than his own . now i ask , whether a man can be bound to a thing that is in its one nature unjust ? if not , as it is plain he cannot , then such an obligation of one man to suffer for the delivery of another cannot be unjust , and consequently the suffering it self cannot be so . but crellius saith , the injustice in this case lies wholly upon the magistrate who admits it : but i ask , wherefore is it unjust in the magistrate to admit it ? it is because the thing is in it self unjust ? if so , there can be no obligation to do it ; and it would be as great a sin to undergo it , as in the magistrate to permit it ; but if it be just in it self , we have obtained what we contend for , viz. that it may be just for a man to suffer beyond the desert of his own actions ; for he that lays down his life for his brethren , doth not deserve by his own actions that very punishment which he undergoes . and if the thing be in it self just , how comes it to be unjust in him that permits it ? . the reason why among men the offenders themselves are punished , is because those were not the terms , upon which the persons suffered . for if they had suffered upon these terms that the other might be freed , and their suffering was admitted of by the magistrate on that consideration , then in all reason and justice the offenders ought to be freed on the account of the others suffering for them . but among men the chief reason of the obligation to punishment of one man for another , is not , that the other might be freed , but that there may be security given by the publick , that the offenders shall be punished : and the reason of the sureties suffering is not to deliver the offender , but to satisfie the law , by declaring that all care is taken that the offender should be punished , when in case of escape , the surety suffers for him . but it is quite another thing when the person suffers purposely that others might be freed by his suffering , for then in case the suffering be admitted , the release of the other is not only not unjust , but becomes due to him that suffered , on his own terms . not as though it followed ipso facto as crellius fansies , but the manner of release doth depend upon the terms which he who suffered for them , shall make in order to it . for upon this suffering of one for another upon such terms , the immediate consequent of the suffering is not the actual discharge but the right to it which he hath purchased ; and which he may dispense upon what terms he shall judge most for his honour . . although one persons sufferings cannot become anothers so as one mans money may ; yet one mans sufferings may be a sufficient consideration on which a benefit may accrue to another . for to that end a donation , or such a transferring right from one to another as is in money , is not necessary , but the acceptation which it hath from him who hath the power to pardon . if he declare that he is so well pleased with the sufferings of one for another , that in consideration of them , he will pardon those from whom he suffered ; where lies the impossibility or unreasonableness of the thing ? for crellius g●ants , that rewards may be given to others than the persons who did the actions in consideration of those actions ; and why may not the sufferings of one for others , being purposely undertaken for this end , be available for the pardon of those whom he suffered for ? for a man can no more transfer the right of his good actions , than of his sufferings . from all which it follows , that one person may by his own consent , and being admitted thereto by him to whom the right of punishing belongs , suffer justly ; tho' it be beyond the desert of his own actions ; and the guilty may be pardoned on the account of his sufferings . which was the first thing we designed to prove from crellius , in order to the overthrowing his own hypothesis . for it being confessed by him that such sufferings have all that belongs to the nature of punishments , and since god hath justly punished some for the sins which they have not committed ; since all nations have allowed it just for one man by his own consent to suffer for another ; since it cannot be unjust for the offender to be released by anothers sufferings , if he were admitted to suffer for that end , it evidently follows , contrary to crellius his main principle , that a person may be justly punished beyond the desert of his own actions : and so that first argument of crellius cannot hold , that one man cannot by his own consent suffer for another , because no man can deserve anothers punishment , and no punishment is just but what is deserved . his second argument from the nature of anger and revenge hath been already answered in the first discourse about the nature and ends of punishments , and his third argument , that one mans punishment cannot become anothers , immediately before . and so we have finished our first consideration of the sufferings of christ in general , as a punishment of our sins , which we have shewed to be agreeable both to scripture and reason . chap. iv. i. the death of christ considered as an expiatory sacrifice for sin . ii. what the expiation of sin was by the sacrifices under the law ; twofold , civil and ritual . the promises made to the iews under the law of moses , respected them as a people , and therefore must be temporal . the typical nature of sacrifices asserted . iii. a substitution in the expiatory sacrifices under the law , proved from lev. . . and the concession of crellius about the signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 joyned with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . lev. . . explained . the expiation of uncertain murther proves a substitution . iv. a substitution of christ in our room proved from christ's being said to die for us ; the importance of that phrase considered . v. in what sense a surrogation of christ in our room is asserted by us . vi. our redemption by christ proves a substitution . vii . of the true notion of redemption : that explained , and proved against socinus and crellius . no necessity of paying the price to him that detains captive , where the captivity is not by force , but by sentence of law. christ's death a proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : and therefore the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 attributed to it , cannot be taken for mere deliverance . we come now to consider the death of christ , as an expiatory sacrifice for the sins of mankind : which is as much denied by our adversaries , as that it was a punishment for our sins . for though they do not deny , that christ as a priest did offer up a sacrifice of expiation for the sins of men ; yet they utterly deny , that this was performed on earth , or that the expiation of sins did respect god , but only us ; or , that the death of christ , had any proper efficacy towards the expiation of sin , any further than as it comprehends in it all the consequences of his death , by a strange catachresis . i shall now therefore prove , that all things which do belong to a proper expiatory sacrifice , do agree to the death of christ. there are three things especially considerable in it : . a substitution in the place of the offenders . . an oblation of it to god. . an expiation of sin consequent upon it . now these three , i shall make appear to agree fully to the death of christ for us . . a substitution in the place of the offenders . that we are to prove , was designed in the expiatory sacrifices under the law , and that christ in his death for us , was substituted in our place . . that in the expiatory sacrifices under the law , there was a substitution of them in the place of the offenders . this our adversaries are not willing to yield us , because of the correspondency which is so plain in the epistle to the hebrews , between those sacrifices , and that wh●ch was offered up by christ. we now speak only of those sacrifices , which we are sure were appointed of old for the expiation of sin , by god himself . as to which the great rule assigned by the apostle was , that without shedding of blood there was no remission . if we yield crellius what he so often urgeth , viz. that these words are to be understood , of what was done under the law ; they will not be the less serviceable to our purpose ; for thereby it will appear , that the means of expiation lay in the shedding of blood : which shews , that the very mactation of the beast to be sacrificed , was designed in order to the expiation of sin . to an inquisitive person , the reason of the slaying such multitudes of beasts in the sacrifices appointed by god himself among the iews , would have appeared far less evident than now it doth , since the author of the epistle to the hebrews hath given us so full an account of them . for it had been very unreasonable to have thought , that they had been merely instituted out of compliance with the customs of other nations , since the whole design of their religion , was to separate them from them : and on such a supposition the great design of the epistle to the hebrews signifies very little ; which doth far more explain to us the nature and tendency of all the sacrifices in use among them , that had any respect to the expiation of sins , than all the customs of the egyptians , or the commentaries of the later iews . but i intend not now to discourse at large upon this subject of sacrifices , either as to the nature and institution of them in general , or with a particular respect to the sacrifice of christ , since a learned person of our church , hath already undertaken crellius upon this argument , and we hope e'er long will oblige the world with the benefit of his pains . i shall therefore only insist on those things which are necessary for our purpose , in order to the clearing the substitution of christ in our sle●d , for the expiation of our sins by his death ; and this we say was represented in the expiatory sacrifices , which were instituted among the iews . if we yield crellius what he after socinus contends for ; viz. that the sacrifice of christ was only represented in the publick and solemn expiatory sacrifices for the people , and especially those on the day of atonement ; we may have enough from them to vindicate all that we assert , concerning the expiatory sacrifice of the blood of christ. ii. for that those were designed by way of substitution in the place of the offenders , will appear from the circumstances and reason of their institution : but before we come to that , it will be necessary to shew what that expiation was , which the sacrifices under the law were designed for ; the not understanding of which , gives a greater force to our adversaries arguments , than otherwise they would have . for while men assert , that the expiation was wholly typical , and of the same nature with that expiation which is really obtained by the death of christ , they easily prove , that all the expiation then , was only declarative , and did no more depend on the sacrifices offered , than on a condition required by god , the neglect of which would be an act of disobedience in them ; and by this means it could represent , say they , no more than such an expiation to be by christ ; viz. god's declaring that sins are expiated by him , on the performance of such a condition required in order thereto , as laying down his life was . but we assert another kind of expiation of sin , by vertue of the sacrifice being slain and offered ; which was real , and depended upon the sacrifice : and this was twofold a civil , and a ritual expiation , according to the double capacity in which the people of the iews may be considered , either as members of a society , subsisting by a body of laws , which according to the strictest sanction of it , makes death the penalty of disobedience , deut. . . but by the will of the legislator , did admit of a relaxation in many cases , allowed by himself ; in which he declares , that the death of the beast designed for a sacrifice should be accepted , instead of the death of the offender ; and so the offence should be fully expiated , as to the execution of the penal law upon him . and thus far , i freely admit what grotius asserts upon this subject , and do yield that no other offence could be expiated in this manner , but such which god himself did particularly declare should be so . and therefore no sin which was to be punished by cutting off , was to be expiated by sacrifice ; as wilful idolatry , murther , &c. which it is impossible for those to give an account of , who make the expiation wholly typical ; for why then should not the greatest sins much rather have had sacrifices of expiation appointed for them : because the consciences of men would be more solicitous for the pardon of greater than lesser sins ; and the blood of christ represented by them , was designed for the expiation of all . from whence it is evident , that it was not a meer typical expiation ; but it did relate to the civil constitution among them . but besides this , we are to consider the people with a respect to that mode of divine worship which was among them ; by reason of which , the people were to be purified from the legal impurities which they contracted , which hindred them from joyning with others in the publick worship of god , and many sacrifices were appointed purposely for the expiating this legal guilt , as particularly , the ashes of the red heifer , numb . . . which is there called a purification for sin . and the apostle puts the blood of bulls and of goats , and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling the unclean , together ; and the effect of both of them , he saith , was to sanctifie to the purifying of the flesh ; which implies , that there was some proper and immediate effect of these sacrifices upon the people at that time , though infinitely short of the effect of the blood of christ upon the consciences of men . by which it is plain , the apostle doth not speak of the same kind of expiation in those sacrifices , which was in the sacrifice of christ , and that the one was barely typical of the other ; but of a different kind of expiation , as far as purifying the flesh is from purging the conscience . but we do not deny , that the whole dispensation was typical , and that the law had a shadow of good things to come , and not the very image of the things , i. e. a dark and obscure representation , and not the perfect resemblance of them . there are two things which the apostle asserts concerning the sacrifices of the law : first , that they had an effect upon the bodies of men , which he calls purifying the flesh ; the other is , that they had no power to expiate for the sins of the soul , considered with a respect to the punishment of another life , which he calls purging the conscience from dead works ; and therefore he saith , that all the gifts and sacrifices under the law , could not make him that did the service perfect , as pertaining to the conscience , and that it was impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sin . so that the proper expiation which was made by them , was civil and ritual , relating either to corporal punishment , or to legal uncleanness , from whence the apostle well proves the necessity of a higher sacrifice to make expiation for sins , as pertaining to the conscience : but that expiation among the iews did relate to that polity which was established among them , as they were a people under the government of a body of laws distinct from the rest of the world . and they being considered as such , it is vain to enquire , whether they had only temporal or eternal promises ; for it was impossible they should have any other than temporal , unless we imagine , that god would own them for a distinct people in another world as he did in this . for what promises relate to a people as such , must consider them as a people , and in that capacity they must be the blessings of a society , viz. peace , plenty , number of people , length of days , &c. but we are far from denying that the general principles of religion did remain among them , viz. that there is a god , and a rewarder of them that seek him ; and all the promises god made to the patriarchs , did continue in force as to another country , and were continually improved by the prophetical instructions among them . but we are now speaking of what did respect the people in general , by vertue of that law which was given them by moses , and in that respect the punishment of faults being either death or exclusion from the publick worship , the expiation of them , was taking away the obligation to either of these , which was the guilt of them in that consideration . but doth not this take away the typical nature of these sacrifices ? no , but it much rather establisheth it . for as socinus argues , if the expiation was only typical , there must be something ●n the type correspondent to that which is typified by it . as the brazen serpent typified christ , and the benefit which was to come by him , because as many as looked up to it were healed . and noah's ark is said to be a type of baptism , because as many as entred into that were saved from the deluge . so corinth . . the apostle saith , that those things happened to them in types , v. . because the events which happened to them , did represent those which would fall upon disobedient christians . so that to make good the true notion of a type , we must assert an expiation that was real then , and agreeable to that dispensation , which doth represent an expiation of a far higher nature , which was to be by the sacrifice of the blood of christ. iii. which being premised , i come to prove , that there was a substitution designed of the beast to be slain and sacrificed in stead of the offenders themselves . which will appear from levit. . . for the life of the flesh is in the blood , and i have given it you upon the altar , to make an atonement for your souls ; for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. the utmost that crellius would have meant by this place is , that there is a double reason assigned of the prohibition of eating blood , viz. that the life was in the blood , and that the blood was designed for expiation ; but he makes these wholly independent upon each other . but we say , that the proper reason assigned against the eating of the blood , is that which is elsewhere given , when this precept is mentioned , viz. that the blood was the life , as we may see gen. . . lev. . . but to confirm the reason given , that the blood was the life ; he adds , that god had given them that upon the altar for an atonement for their souls : so the arabick version renders it , and therefore have i given it you upon the altar , viz. because the blood is the life . and hereby a sufficient reason is given , why god did make choice of the blood for atonement , for that is expressed in the latter clause , for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul ; why should this be mentioned here , if no more were intended but to give barely another reason why they should not eat the blood ? what force is there more in this clause to that end , than in the foregoing ? for therein god had said , that he had given it them for an atonement . if no more had been intended , but the bare prohibition of common use of the blood , on the account of its being consecrated to sacred use , it had been enough to have said , that the blood was holy unto the lord , as it is in the other instances mentioned by crellius , of the holy ointment and perfume , for no other reason is there given , why it should not be profaned to common use , but that it should be holy for the lord ; if therefore the blood had been forbidden upon that account , there had been no necessity at all of adding , that the blood was it that made atonement for the soul : which gives no peculiar reason why they should not eat the blood , beyond that of bare consecration of it to a sacred use ; but if we consider it as respecting the first clause , viz. for the life of the flesh is in the blood , then there is a particular reason why the blood should be for atonement , viz. because the life was in that ; and therefore when the blood was offered , the life of the beast was supposed to be given instead of the life of the offender . according to that of ovid , hanc animam vobis pro meliore damus . this will be yet made clearer by another instance produced by crellius to explain this , which is the forbidding the eating of fat ; which saith he , is joyned with this of blood , levit. . . it shall be a perpetual statute for your generations , throughout all your dwellings , that ye eat neither fat nor blood . to the same purpose , levit. . , , . now no other reason is given of the prohibition of the fat , but this , all the fat is the lords . which was enough to keep them from eating it . but we see here in the case of blood somewhat further is assigned , viz. that it was the life ; and therefore was most proper for expiation , the life of the beast being substituted in the place of the offenders . which was therefore called animalis hostia among the romans , as grotius observes upon this place , and was distinguished from those whose entrails were observed ; for in those sacrifices as servius saith , sola anima deo sacratur , the main of the sacrifice lay in shedding of the blood , which was called the soul ; and so it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this place . from whence it appears that such a sacrifice was properly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the same word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used , both relating to the blood and the soul , that is expiated by it : and the lxx do accordingly render it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and in the last clause , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . from whence eusebius calls these sacrifices of living creatures , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and afterwards saith they were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and crellius elsewhere grants , that where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is joyned with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it doth imply , that one doth undergo the punishment which another was to have undergone , which is all we mean by substitution , it being done in the place of another . from whence it follows , that the sacrifices under the law being said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , doth necessarily infer a substitution of them in the place of the offenders . and from hence may be understood , what is meant by the goat of the sin offering , bearing the iniquity of the congregation , to make atonement for them before the lord , levit. . . for crellius his saying , that bearing is as much as taking away , or declaring that they are taken away , hath been already disproved : and his other answer hath as little weight in it ; viz. that it is not said , that the sacrifice did bear their iniquities , but the priest : for , . the chaldee paraphrast , and the syriack version , understand it wholly of the sacrifice . . socinus himself grants , that if it were said , the priest did expiate by the sacrifices , it were all one as if it were said , that the sacrifices themselves did expiate ; because the expiation of the priest was by the sacrifice . thus it is plain in the case of uncertain murther , mentioned deut. . from the first to the tenth ; if a murther were committed in the land , and the person not known who did it , a heifer was to have her head cut off by the elders of the next city ; and by this means they were to put away the guilt of the innocent blood from among them : the reason of which was , because god had said before , that blood defiled the land , and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein , but by the blood of him that shed it . from whence it appears , that upon the shedding of blood , there was a guilt contracted upon the whole land wherein it was shed , and in case the murtherer was not found to expiate that guilt by his own blood , then it was to be done by the cutting off the head of a heifer instead of him : in which case , the death of the heifer was to do as much towards the expiating the land , as the death of the murtherer if he had been found : and we do not contend , that this was designed to expiate the murtherers guilt ( which is the objection of crellius against this instance ) but that a substitution here was appointed by god himself , for the expiation of the people : for what crellius adds , that the people did not deserve punishment , and therefore needed no expiation ; it is a flat contradiction to the text : for the prayer appointed in that case is , be merciful , o lord , unto thy people israel , whom thou hast redeemed , and lay not innocent blood unto thy people israels charge , and the blood shall be expiated : for the same word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used here , which is in the other places where expiation is spoken of . so that here must be some guilt supposed , where there was to be an expiation , and this expiation was performed by the substitution of a sacrifice in the place of the offender . which may be enough at present to shew , that a substitution was admitted by the law , of a sacrifice instead of the offender , in order to the expiation of guilt ; but whether the offender himself was to be freed by that sacrifice ; depends upon the terms on which the sacrifice was offered ; for we say still , that so much guilt was expiated , as the sacrifice was designed to expiate ; if the sacrifice was designed to expiate the guilt of the offender , his sin was expiated by it ; if not his , in case no sacrifice was allowed by the law , as in that of murther , then the guilt which lay upon the land was expiated , although the offender himself were never discovered . iv. i now come to prove , that in correspondency to such a substitution of the sacrifices for sin under the law , christ was substituted in our room for the expiation of our guilt ; and that from his being said to die for us , and his death being called a price of redemption for us . . from christ's being said to die for us . by st. peter , for christ hath also once suffered for sins , the just for the unjust ; by whom he is also said , to suffer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for us , and for us in the flesh : by st. paul , he is said to die 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for all , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the ungodly , and to give himself 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a ransom for all , and , to tast death 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for every man : by caiaphas , speaking by inspiration , he is said to die 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the people . so christ himself instituting his last supper , said , this is my body which was given , and my blood which was shed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for you ; and before he had said , that the son of man came to give his life 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a ransom for many . we are now to consider , what arts our adversaries have made use of to pervert the meaning of these places , so as not to imply a substitution of christ in our room : . they say , that all these phrases do imply no more than a final cause ; viz. that christ died for the good of mankind ; for the apostle tells us , we are bound to lay down our lives for the brethren , and st. paul is said to suffer for the church . to which i answer ; . this doth not at all destroy that which we now plead for , viz. that these phrases do imply a substitution of christ in our room : for when we are bid to lay down our lives for our brethren , a substitution is implied therein ; and supposing that dying for another , doth signifie dying for some benefit to come to him , yet what doth this hinder substitution , unless it be proved , that one cannot obtain any benefit for another , by being substituted in his room . nay , it is observable , that although we produce so many places of scripture , implying such a substitution , they do not offer to produce one that is inconsistent with christ's suffering in our stead ; all that they say is , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not always signifie so , which we never said it did , who say , that christ suffered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not instead of our sins , but by reason of them ; but we assert , that when one person is said to die for others , as in the places mentioned , no other sense can be so proper and agreeable , as dying in the stead of the other . . socinus himself grants , that there is a peculiarity implied in those phrases , when attributed to christ , above what they have when attributed to any other . and therefore , he saith , it cannot be properly said , that one brother dies for another , or that paul suffered for the colossians , or for the church , as christ may truly and properly be said to suffer and to die for us . and from hence , saith he , st. paul saith , was paul crucified for you ? implying thereby , that there never was or could be any , who truly and properly could be said to die for men , but christ alone . how unreasonable then is it , from the use of a particle as applied to others , to inferr , that it ought to be so understood , when applied to christ ? when a peculiarity is acknowledged in the death of christ for us , more than ever was or could be in one mans dying for another . . it is not the bare force of the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that we insist upon ; but that a substitution could not be more properly expressed , than it is in scripture , by this and other particles , for not only 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 too : which socinus saith , although it may signifie something else besides in the stead of another , yet in such places , where it is spoken of a ransom or price , it signifies the payment of something which was owing before , as matt. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so he acknowledges , that where redemption is spoken of , there 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth imply a commutation , because the price is given , and the person received , which , he saith , holds in christ only metaphorically : for the redemption according to him being only metaphorical , the commutation must be supposed to be so too . v. and this now leads us to the larger answer of crellius upon this argument . wherein we shall consider , what he yields , what he denies , and upon what reasons . . he yields , and so he saith doth socinus , very freely , a commutation ; but it is necessary that we should throughly understand what he means by it : to that end he tells us , that they acknowledge a twofold commutation ; one of the person suffering , the kind of suffering being changed , not actually but intentionally , because we are not actually freed by christ dying for us , but only christ died for that end , that we might be freed . and this commutation , he saith , that socinus doth not deny to be implied in the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the places where christ is said to die for us . another commutation , which he acknowledges , is , that which is between a price , and the thing or person which is bought or redeemed by it ; where the price is paid , and the thing or person is received upon it . and this kind of commutation , he saith , is to be understood in the places where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is mentioned ; which price , he saith , by accident may be a person ; and because the person is not presently delivered , he therefore saith , that the commutation is rather imperfect than metaphorical ; and although , he saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not of it self imply a commutation , yet he grants , that the circumstances of the places do imply it . . he denies , that there is any proper surrogation in christ's dying for us , which , he saith , is such a commutation of persons , that the substituted person is in all respects to be in the same place and state wherein the other was ; and if it refers to sufferings , then it is when one suffers the very same which the other was to suffer , he being immediately delivered by the others sufferings . and against this kind of surrogation , crellius needed not to have produced any reasons ; for grotius never asserted it ; neither do we say , that christ suffered eternal death for us , or that we were immediately freed by his sufferings . but that which grotius asserts , that he meant by substitution was this , that unless christ had died for us , we must have died our selves , and because christ hath died , we shall not die eternally . but if this be all , saith crellius , he meant by it , we grant the whole thing , and he complains of it as an injury for any to think otherwise of them . if so , they cannot deny but that there was a sufficient capacity in the death of christ to be made an expiatory sacrifice for the sins of the world . but notwithstanding all these fair words , crellius means no more than socinus did ; and tho' he would allow the words which grotius used , yet not in the sense he understood them in ; for crellius means no more by all this , but that the death of christ was an antecedent condition to the expiation of sins in heaven , grotius understands by them , that christ did expiate sins by becoming a sacrifice for them in his death . however , from hence it appears , that our adversaries can have no plea against the death of christ's being an expiatory sacrifice ( from want of a substitution in our room ) since they pro●ess themselves so willing to own such a substitution . but if they say , that there could be no proper substitution , because the death of christ was a bare condition , and no punishment , they then express their minds more freely ; and if these places be allowed to prove a substitution , i hope the former discourse will prove that it was by way of punishment . neither is it necessary , that the very same kind of punishment be undergone in order to surrogation , but that it be sufficient in order to the accomplishing the end for which it was designed . for this kind of substitution being in order to the delivery of another by it , whatever is sufficient for that end , doth make a proper surrogation . for no more is necessary to the delivery of another person than the satisfying the ends of the law and government , and if that may be done by an equivalent suffering , though not the same in all respects , then it may be a proper surrogation . if david had obtained his wish , that he had died for his son absolom , it had not been necessary in order to his son's escape , that he had hanged by the hair of his head , as his son did ; but his death , though in other circumstances , had been sufficient . and therefore when the lawyers say , subrogatum , sapit naturam ejus in cujus locum subrogatur : covarruvias tells us , it is to be understood , secundum primordialem naturam non secundum accidentalem ; from whence it appears , that all circumstances , are not necessary to be the same in surrogation ; but that the nature of the punishment remain the same . thus christ dying for us , to deliver us from death , and the curse of the law , he underwent an accursed death for that end ; although not the very same which we were to have undergone , yet sufficient to shew , that he underwent the punishment of our iniquities in order to the delivering us from it . and if our adversaries will yield us this , we shall not much contend with them about the name of a proper surrogation . vi. but in the matter of redemption , or where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used , crellius will by no means yield that there was a commutation of persons between christ and us , but all the commutation he will allow here is only a commutation between a thing , or a prince , and a person . which he therefore asserts , that so there may be no necessity of christ's undergoing the punishment of sin in order to redemption , because the price that is to be paid , is not supposed to undergo the condition of the person delivered by it . which will evidently appear to have no force at all , in case we can prove , that a proper redemption may be obtained by the punishment of one in the room of another ; for that punishment then comes to be the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or price of redemption ; and he that pays this , must be supposed to undergo punishment for it . so that the commutation being between the punishment of one , and the other redeemed by it , here is a proper commutation of persons implied in the payment of the price . but hereby we may see that the great subtilty of our adversaries is designed on purpose to avoid the force of the places of scripture , which are so plain against them : for when these places where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are joyned together , are so clear for a substitution , that they cannot deny it ; then they say , by it is meant only a commutation of a price for a person ; but when the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is urged to prove a redemption purchased by christ , by the payment of a price for it , then they deny that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signifie a proper price , but is only taken metaphorically ; and yet if it be so taken , then there can be no force in what crellius saith , for a bare metaphorical price may be a real punishment : two things i shall then prove against crellius . . that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as applied to christ , is to be taken in a proper sense . . that although it be taken in a proper sense , yet it doth not imply a bare commutation of a price and a person , but a substitution of one person in the room of another . vii . both these will be cleared from the right stating the notion of redemption between our adversaries and us . for they will not by any means have any other proper notion of redemption but from captivity , and that by the payment of a price to him that did hold in captivity , and therefore because christ did not pay the price to the devil , there could be no proper sense either of the redemption , or the price which was paid for it . this is the main strength of all the arguments used by socinus and crellius , to enervate the force of those places of scripture which speak of our redemption by christ , and of the price which he paid in order to it . but how weak these exceptions are , will appear upon a true examination of the proper notion of redemption , which in its primary importance signifies no more , than the obtaining of one thing by another as a valuable consideration for it . thence redimere anciently among the latins signified barely to purchase by a valuable price , for the thing which they had a right to by it ; and sometimes to purchase that which a man hath sold before , thence the pactum redimendi in contracts : still in whatever sense it was used by the lawyers or others , the main regard was , to the consideration upon which the thing was obtained , thence redimere delatorem pecunia , h. e. eum à delatione deducere ; so redimere litem ; and redemptor litis was one that upon certain consideration took the whole charge of a suit upon himself : and those who undertook the farming of customs at certain rates , were called redemptores vectigalium , qui redempturis auxissent vectigalia , saith livy . and all those who undertook any publick work at a certain price , redemptores antiquitus dicebantur , saith festus and vlpian . from hence it was applied to the delivery of any person from any inconvenience that he lay under , by something which was supposed a valuable consideration for it . and that it doth not only relate to captivity , but to any other great calamity , the freedom from which is obtained by what another suffers ; is apparent from these two remarkable expressions of cicero to this purpose . quam quidem ego ( saith he , speaking of the sharpness of the time ) à rep . meis privatis & domesticis incommodis libentissime redemissem . and more expresly elsewhere , ego vitam omnium civium , statum orbis terrae , urbem hanc denique , &c. quinque hominum amentium ac perditorum poena redemi . where it is plain , that redemption is used for the delivery of some by the punishment of others ; not from mere captivity , but from a great calamity which they might have fallen into , without such a punishment of those persons . so vain is that assertion of socinus , redimere , nihil aliud propriè significat , quam eum captivum è manibus illius , qui eum detinet , pretio illi dato liberare . viii . and yet supposing we should grant that redemption as used in sacred authors doth properly relate to captivity , there is no necessity at all of that which our adversaries contend so earnestly for , viz. that the price must be paid to him that detains captive . for we may very easily conceive a double sort of captivity , from whence a redemption may be obtained ; the one by force , when a captive is detained purposely for advantage to be made by his redemption : and the other in a judicial manner , when the law condemns a person to captivity , and the thing designed by the law is not a meer price , but satisfaction to be made to the law , upon which a redemption may be obtained ; now in the former case it is necessary , that the price be paid to the person who detains , because the reason of his detaining , was the expectation of the price to be paid ; but in the latter , the detainer is meerly the instrument for execution of the law , and the price of redemption is not to be paid to him ; but to those who are most concerned in the honour of the law. but crellius objects , that the price can never be said to be paid to god , because our redemption is attributed to god as the author of it , and because we are said to be redeemed for his use and service , now , saith he , the price can never be paid to him for whose service the person is redeemed . but all this depends upon the former mistake , as though we spake all this while of such a redemption , as that is of a captive by force ▪ in whom the detainer is no further concerned , than for the advantage to be made by him ; and in that case the price must be paid to him who detains , because it would otherwise be unsuccessful for his deliverance : but in case of captivity by law , as the effect of disobedience , the magistrate who is concerned in the life of the person , and his future obedience may himself take care that satisfaction may be given to the law for his redemption , in order to his future serviceableness . from hence we see both that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is proper in this case of our redemption , and that it is not a meer commutation of a price for a person , but a commutation of one persons suffering for others , which suffering being a punishment in order to satisfaction is a valuable consideration , and therefore a price for the redemption of others by it . which price in this sense doth imply a proper substitution ; which was the thing to be proved . which was the first thing to be made good concerning the death of christ being a sacrifice for sin , viz. that there was a substitution of christ in our stead as of the sacrifices of old under the law ; and in this sense the death of christ was a proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or price of redemption for us . nothing then can be more vain , than the way of our adversaries , to take away the force of all this , because 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is sometimes taken for a meer deliverance without any price , which we deny not ; but the main force of our argument is from the importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , where the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is mentioned ; and then we say that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when applied to sins , signifies expiation , ( as heb. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ) but when applied to persons , it signifies the deliverance purchased by the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is not to be considered as a bare price , or thing given , but as a thing undergone in order to that deliverance : and is therefore not only called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 too , which crellius confesseth doth imply a commutation , and we have shewed , doth prove a substitution of christ in our place . chap. v. i. the notion of a sacrifice belongs to the death of christ , because of the oblation made therein to god. crellius his sense of christ's oblation proposed . ii. against him it is proved , that the priestly office of christ had a primary respect to god , and not to us . expiatory sacrifices did divert the wrath of god. iii. christ not a bare metaphorical high-priest . iv. crellius destroys the priesthood of christ by confounding it with the exercise of his regal power . v. no proper expiation of sin belongs to christ in heaven , if crellius his doctrine be true . vi. ephes. . . proves the death of christ an expiatory sacrifice , and an oblation to god. the phrase of a sweet-smelling savour , belongs to expiatory sacrifices ; crellius his gross notion of it . vii . his mistakes about the kinds of sacrifices . burnt-offerings were expiatory sacrifices both before and under the law. a new distribution of sacrifices proposed . viii . what influence the mactation of the sacrifice had on expiation . the high priest only to slay the sin-offering on the day of atonement ; from whence it is proved that christ's priesthood did not begin from his entrance into heaven . the mactation in expiatory sacrifices no bare preparation to a sacrifice , proved by the iewish laws , and the customs of other nations . ix . whether christ's oblation of himself once to god , were in heaven , or on earth ? of the proper notion of oblations under the levitical law. several things observed from thence to our purpose . x. all things necessary to a legal oblation , concurr in the death of christ. xi . his entrance into heaven hath no correspondency with it ; if the blood of christ were no sacrifice for sin . in sin-offerings for the people , the whole was consumed ; no eating of the sacrifices allowed the priests , but in those for private persons . xii . christ's exercise of power in heaven , in no sense an oblation to god. xiii . crellius , his sense repugnant to the circumstances of the places in dispute . xiv . objections answered . i. the second thing to prove the death of christ a sacrifice for sin , is the oblation of it to god for that end . grotius towards the conclusion of his book , makes a twofold oblation of christ , parallel to that of the sacrifices under the law , the first of mactation , the second of representation ; whereof the first was done in the temple , the second in the holy of holies ; so the first of christ was on earth , the second in heaven ; the first is not a bare preparation to a sacrifice , but a sacrifice : the latter not so much a sacrifice , as the commemoration of one already past . wherefore , since appearing and interceeding are not properly sacerdotal acts , any further than they depend on the efficacy of a sacrifice already offered , he that takes away that sacrifice , doth not leave to christ any proper priesthood , against the plain authority of the scripture , which assigns to christ the office of a priest distinct from that of a prophet and a king. to which crellius replies : that the expiation of sin doth properly belong to what christ doth in heaven ; and may be applied to the death of christ only , as the condition by which he was to enjoy that power in heaven , whereby he doth expiate sins ; but the priest was never said to expiate sins when he killed the beast , but when the blood was sprinkled or carried into the holy of holies , to which the oblation of christ in heaven does answer : but mactation , saith he , was not proper to the priests , but did belong to the levites also . and christ was not truly a priest , while he was on earth , but only prepared by his sufferings to be one in heaven , where by the perpetual care he takes of his people , and exercising his power for them , he is said to offer up himself , and intercede for them , and by that means he dischargeth the office of a high priest for them . for his priestly office , he saith , is never in scripture mentioned as distinct from his kingly , but is comprehended under it ; and the great difference between them is , that one is of a larger extension than the other is , the kingly office extending to punishing , and the priestly only to expiation . this is the substance of what crellius more at large discourseth upon this subject . wherein he asserts these things . that the priestly office of christ doth not in reference to the expiation of sins respect god but us ; his intercession and oblation wherein he makes the sacerdotal function of christ to consist , being the exercise of his power for the good of his people . . that christ did offer up no sacrifice of expiation to god upon earth , because the mactation had no reference to expiation , any other than as a preparation for it ; and christ not yet being constituted a high priest till after his resurrection from the dead . against these two assertions i shall direct my following discourse , by proving ; . that the priestly office of christ had a primary respect to god , and not to us . . that christ did exercise this priestly office in the oblation of himself to god upon the cross. ii. . that the priestly office of christ had a primary respect to god , and not to us ; which appears from the first institution of a high priest , mentioned by the apostle , heb. . . for every high priest taken from among men , is ordained for men in things pertaining to god , that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins : id est , saith crellius elsewhere , ut procuret & peragat ea quae ad colendum ac propitiandum numen pertinent ; i. e. that he may perform the things which appertain to the worshipping and propitiating god : we desire no more , but that the propitiating god , may as immediately be said to respect him , as the worshipping of god doth ; or let crellius tell us , what sense the propitiating god will bear ; if all that the high-priest had to do , did immediately respect the people : nay , he saith not long after , that it was the chief office of a high-priest , to plead the cause of sinners with god , and to take care , that they may find him kind and propitious , and not angry or displeased . in what sense god was said to be moved by the expiatory sacrifices , is not here our business to discuss ; it is sufficient for our purpose , that they were instituted with a respect to god , so as to procure his favour , and divert his wrath . in which sense , the priest is so often in the levitical law said , by the offering up of sacrifices , to expiate the sins of the people . but crellius saith , this ought not so to be understood , as though god by expiatory sacrifices , were diverted from his anger , and inclined to pardon ; which is a plain contradiction , not only to the words of the law , but to the instances that are recorded therein ; as when aaron was bid in the time of the plague to make an atonement for the people , for there is wrath gone out from the lord : and he stood between the living and the dead , and the plague was stayed . was not god's anger then diverted here , by the making this atonement ? the like instance we read in david's time , that by the offering burnt-offerings , &c. the lord was intreated for the land , and the plague was stayed from israel : by which nothing can be more plain , than that the primary intention of such sacrifices , and consequently of the office of the priest who offered them , did immediately respect the atoning god : but yet crellius urgeth , this cannot be said of all , or of the most proper expiatory sacrifices ; but we see it said of more than the meer sacrifices for sin , as appointed by the law ; viz of burnt-offerings , and peace-offerings , and incense , in the examples mentioned . so that these levitical sacrifices did all respect the atoning god ; although in some particular cases , different sacrifices were to be offered ; for it is said , the burnt-offering was to make atonement for them , as well as the sin and trespass-offerings ( excepting those sacrifices which were instituted in acknowledgment of god's sovereignty over them , and presence among them , as the daily sacrifices , the meat and drink offerings , or such as were meerly occasional , &c. ) thus it is said , that aaron and his sons were appointed to make an atonement for israel : so that as grotius observes out of philo , the high-priest was a mediator between god and man , by whom men might propitiate god , and god dispense his favours to men . but the means whereby he did procure favours to men , was by atoning god by the sacrifices , which he was by his office to offer to him . we are now to consider , how far this holds in reference to christ , for whose sake the apostle brings in these words ; and surely would not have mentioned this as the primary office of a high-priest , in order to the proving christ to be our high-priest , after a more excellent manner than the aaronical was , unless he had agreed with him in the nature of his office , and exceeded him in the manner of performance . iii. for the apostle both proves , that he was a true and proper , and not a bare metaphorical high-priest , and that in such a capacity , he very far exceeded the priests after the order of aaron . but how could that possibly be , if he ●ailed in the primary office of a high-priest ; viz. in offering up gifts and sacrifices to god ? if his office as high-priest did primarily respect men , when the office of the aaronical priest did respect god ? to avoid this , crellius makes these words to be only an allusion to the legal priesthood , and some kind of similitude between christ and the aaronical priests ; but it is such a kind of allusion , that the apostle designs to prove christ to be ●n high-priest by it ; and which is of the greatest force , he proves the necessity of christ's having somewhat to offer from hence : for every high-priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices ; wherefore it is of necessity , that this man have somewhat also to offer . this is that which 〈◊〉 looks at as the peculiar and distinguishing character of a high-priest ; for 〈◊〉 for others , and having compassion upon them , might be done by others besides the high-priest ; but this was that , without which he could not make good his name , what order soever he were of . i● christ then had no proper sa●rifice to offer up to god , to what purpose doth the apostle so industriously set himself to prove , that he is our high-priest ? when he must needs fail in the main thing , according to his own assertion ? how easie had it been for the iews , to have answered all the apostles arguments concerning the priesthood of christ , if he had been such a priest , and made no other oblation than crellius allows him ? when the apostle proves against the iews , that there was no necessity , that they should still retain the mosaical dispensation , because now they had a more excellent high-priest than the aaronical were ; and makes use of that character of a high-priest , that he was one taken out from among men , in things pertaining to god to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins : well , say the iews , we accept of this character , but how do you prove concerning christ , that he was such a one ? did he offer up a sacrifice for sin to god upon earth , as our high-priests do ? no , saith crellius , his sufferings were only a preparation for his priesthood in heaven : but did he then offer up such a sacrifice to god in heaven ? yes , saith crellius , he made an oblation there . but is that oblation such a sacrifice to god for sin , as our high-priests offer ? yes , saith crellius , it may be called so by way of allusion . well then , say they , you grant that your iesus is only a high-priest by way of allusion , which was against your first design to prove ; viz. that he was a true high-priest , and more excellent than ours . but suppose it be by way of allusion , doth he make any oblation to god in heaven or not ? no , saith crellius , really and truly he doth not : for all his office doth respect us , but the benefits we enjoy coming originally from the kindness of god , you may call it an oblation to god if you please . but how is it possible then , say the iews , you can ever convince us , that he is any high-priest , or priest at all , much less , that he should ever exceed the aaronical high-priests in their office ? for we are assured , that they do offer sacrifices for sin , and that god is atoned by them : but if your high-priest make no atonement for sin , he falls far short of ours , and therefore we will still hold to our levitical priesthood , and not forsake that for one barely metaphorical , and having nothing really answering the name of a high-priest . thus the force of all the apostles arguments is plainly taken away , by what crellius and his brethren assert concerning the priesthood of christ. but crellius thinks to make it good by saying , that things that are improper and figurative , may be far more excellent than the things that are proper , to which they are opposed ; so that christ's priesthood may be far more excellent than the aaronical , although his be only figurative , and the other proper . but the question is not , whether christ's priesthood by any other adventitious considerations , as of greater power and authority than the aaronical priests had , may be said to be far more excellent than theirs was ; but , whether in the notion of priesthood , it doth exceed theirs ? which it is impossible to make good , unless he had some proper oblation to make unto god , which in it self did far exceed all the sacrifices and offerings under the law. iv. but what that oblation of christ in heaven was , which had any correspondency with the sacrifices under the law , our adversaries can never assign ; nay , when they go about it , they speak of it in such a manner , as makes it very evident they could heartily have wished the epistle to the hebrews had said as little of the priesthood of christ , as they say , any other part of the new testament doth . thence smalcius and crellius insist so much upon the priesthood of christ , being distinctly mentioned by none but the author to the hebrews ; which , say they , had surely been done , if christ had been a proper priest , or that office in him distinct from his kingly . which sufficiently discovers what they would be at ; viz. that the testimony of the author to the hebrews , is but a single testimony in this matter ; and in truth , they do ( as far as is consistent with not doing it in express words ) wholly take away the priesthood of christ : for what is there which they say his priesthood implies , which he might not have had , supposing he had never been called a priest ? his being in heaven , doth not imply that he is a priest , unless it be impossible for any but priests ever to come there : his power and authority over the church , doth not imply it ; for that power is by themselves confessed to be a regal power : his readiness to use that power , cannot imply it , which is the thing smalcius insists on ; for his being a king of the church , doth necessarily imply his readiness to make use of his power for the good of his church . his receiving his power from god , doth not imply that he was a priest , although crellius insist on that , unless all the kings of the earth are priests by that means too , and christ could not have had a subordinate power as king , as well as priest. but his death is more implied , saith crellius , in the name of a priest than of a king ; true , if his death be considered as a sacrifice , but not otherwise : for what is there of a priest in bare dying , do not others so too ? but this represents greater tenderness and care in christ , than the meer title of a king : what kind of king do they imagine christ the mean while , if his being so , did not give the greatest encourag●ment to all his subjects ? nay , it is plain , the name of a king must yield greater comfort to his people , because that implies his power to defend them , which the bare name of a priest doth not . so that there could be no reason at all given , why the name of a high-priest should be at all given to christ , if no more were implied in it , than the exercise of his power with respect to us , without any proper oblation to god : for here is no proper sacerdotal act at all attributed to him ; so that upon their hypothesis , the name of high-priest , is a meer insignificant title used by the author to the hebrews , without any foundation at all for it . by no means , saith crellius , for his expiation of sin is implyed by it , which is not implied in the name of king : true , if the expiation of sin were done by him in the way of a priest by an oblation to god , which they deny ; but though they call it expiation , they mean no more than the exercise of his divine power in the delivering his people . but what parallel was there to this in the expiation of sins by the levitical priesthood ? that was certainly done by a sacrifice offered to god by the priest , who was thereby said to expiate the sins of the people : how comes it now to be taken quite in another sense , and yet still called by the same name ? v. but this being the main thing insisted on by them , i shall prove from their own principles , that no expiation of sin in their own sense can belong to christ in heaven , by vertue of his oblation of himself there , and consequently that they must unavoidably overthrow the whole notion of the priesthood of christ. for this we are to consider , what their notion of the expiation of sins is , which is set down briefly by crellius in the beginning of his discourse of sacrifices , there is a twofold power , saith he , of the sacrifice of christ towards the expiation of sin , one taking away the guilt and the punishment of sin , and that partly by declaring , that god will do it , and giving us a right to it , partly by actual deliverance from punishment ; the other is by begetting faith in us , and so drawing us off from the practice of sin : now the first and last crellius and socinus attribute to the death of christ , as that was a confirmation of the covenant god made for the remission of sin ; and as it was an argument to perswade us to believe the truth of his doctrine ; and the other , viz. the actual deliverance from punishment , is by themselves attributed to the second coming of christ ; for then only , they say , the just shall be actually delivered from the punishment of sin , viz. eternal death ; and what expiation is there now left to the oblation of christ in heaven ? doth christ in heaven declare the pardon of sin any other way than it was declared by him upon earth ? what efficacy hath his oblation in heaven upon perswading men to believe ? or is his second coming when he shall sit as judge , the main part of his priesthood ; for then the expiation of sins in our adversaries sense is most proper ? and yet nothing can be more remote from the notion of christ's priesthood , than that is ; so that expiation of sins according to them can have no respect at all to the oblation of christ in heaven , or ( which is all one in their sence ) his continuance in heaven to his second coming . yes , saith crellius , his continuance there , is a condition in order to the expiation by actual deliverance , and therefore it may be said , that god is as it were moved by it to expiate sins . the utmost then , that is attributed to christ's being in heaven , in order to the expiation of sins , is that he must continue there without doing any thing in order to it ; for if he does , it must either respect god or us : but they deny ( though contrary to the importance of the words , and the design of the places where they are used ) that the terms of christ's interceding for us , or being an advocate with the father for us , do note any respect to god , but only to us ; if he does any thing with respect to us in expiation of sin , it must be either declaring , perswading , or actual deliverance ; but it is none of these by their own assertions ; and therefore that which they call christ's oblation , or his being in heaven , signifies nothing as to the expiation of sin : and it is unreasonable to suppose that a thing , which hath no influence at all upon it , should be looked on as a condition in order to it . from whence it appears , that while our adversaries do make the exercise of christ's priesthood to respect us and not god , they destroy the very nature of it , and leave christ only an empty name without any thing answering to it : but if christ be truly a high-priest , as the apostle asserts that he is , from thence it follows that he must have a respect to god in offering up gifts and sacrifices for sin : which was the thing to be proved . vi. . that christ did exercise this priestly office in the oblation of himself to god upon the cross. which i shall prove by two things . . because the death of christ is said in scripture to be an offering , and a sacrifice to god. . because christ is said to offer up himself antecedently to his entrance into heaven . . because the death of christ is said to be an offering and a sacrifice to god , which is plain from the words of st. paul , as christ also hath loved us , and given himself for us , an offering and a sacrifice to god , for a sweet-smelling savour . our adversaries do not deny that the death of christ is here called an oblation , but they deny , that it is meant of an expiatory sacrifice , but of a free-will offering ; and the reason crellius gives is , because that phrase of a sweet-smelling savour is generally and almost always used of sacrifices which are not expiatory ; but if ever they be used of an expiatory sacrifice , they are not applied to that which was properly expiatory in it , viz. the offering up of the blood , for no smell , saith he , went up from thence , but to the burning of the fat , and the kidneys , which although required to perfect the expiation , yet not being done till the high-priest returned out of the holy of holies , hath nothing correspondent to the expiatory sacrifice of christ , where all things are perfected before christ the high-priest goes forth of his sanctuary . how inconsistent these last words are with what they assert concerning the expiation of sin by actual deliverance at the great day , the former discourse hath already discovered . for what can be more absurd , than to say , that all things which pertain to the expiation of sin are perfected before christ goes forth from his sanctuary , and yet to make the most proper expiation of sin to lie in that act of christ which is consequent to his going forth of the sanctuary , viz. when he proceeds to judge the quick and the dead . but of that already . we now come to a punctual and direct answer , as to which two things must be enquired into . . what the importance of the phrase of a sweet-smelling savour is ? . what the sacrifices are to which that phrase is applied ? . for the importance of the phrase . the first time we read it used in scripture was upon the occasion of noah's sacrifice after the flood , of which it is said , that he offered burnt-offerings on the altar , and the lord smelled a savour of rest , or a sweet savour . which we are not wont to imagine in a gross corporeal manner , as crellius seems to understand it , when he saith , the blood could not make such a savour as the fat and the kidneys ; for surely , none ever thought the smell of flesh burnt was a sweet-smelling savour of it self , and we must least of all imagine that of god , which porphyry saith , was the property only of the worst of daemons to be pleased , and as it were , to grow fat , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , with the smell and vapours of blood , and flesh , ( by which testimony , it withal appears , that the same steams in sacrifices were supposed to arise from the blood as the flesh : ) but we are to understand that phrase in a sense agreeable to the divine nature , which we may easily do , if we take it in the sense the syriack version takes it in , when it calls it , odorem placabilitatis , or the savour of rest , as the word properly signifies ; for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the word formed from the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is used for the resting of the ark , v. . of the same chapter , and so it imports a rest after some commotion , and in that sense is very proper to atonement , or that whereby god makes his anger to rest ; so aben ezra upon that place expounds the savour of rest , to be such a one which makes god cease from his anger : thence in hiphil 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies to appease , or to make peace ; in which sense it is used by r. solom . upon isa. . . munster tells us the sense is , deus nunc quievit ab ira & placatus fuit , and to the same purpose vatablus : which sense is most agreeable to the design of the following words , in which god expresseth his great kindness , and the lord said in his heart , i will not again curse the ground any more for mans sake ; which are words highly expressing , how much god was propitiated by the sacrifice which noah offered , and therefore iosephus doth well interpret this to be a proper expiatory sacrifice ; that god would now be atoned , and send no more such a deluge upon the world ; which he saith was the substance of noah's prayer , when he offered this burnt-offering , and that god would receive his sacrifice , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that he would no more receive such displeasure against the earth : so that the first time ever this expression was used , it is taken in the proper sense of an expiatory sacrifice . vii . and by that the second enquiry may be easily resolved ; viz. what kind of sacrifices it doth belong to , which we see in the first place is , to expiatory , which crellius denies by a great mistake of the sense of the phrase , and of the nature of the offerings , concerning which this expression is most used ; viz. holocausts , as though those were not expiatory sacrifices : but if we can make it appear , that the holocausts were expiatory sacrifices , then it will follow , that this phrase doth most properly agree to a sacrifice designed for expiation . but crellius here speaks very confusedly concerning sacrifices , opposing holocausts and freewill-offerings to expiatory sacrifices ; whereas the freewill-offerings might be expiatory as well as eucharistical ; that denomination not respecting the end the sacrifices were designed for , but that the precise time of offering them was not determined by the law ; as in the stated and solemn sacrifices . for the general distribution of sacrifices , seems proper into propitiatory and eucharistical ; which distinction is thought by some to hold from the first time we read of sacrifices in scripture ; because the sacrifice of cain was of the fruits of the ground , and of abel , of the firstlings of his flock . although there seems to be nothing meant by this difference of sacrifices , but the diversity of their imployments , either of them sacrificing according to them ; and i cannot say what some do , that the reason of god's rejecting cain's sacrifice , was because it was not designed for expiation . but the practice of after ages , wherein we have a fuller account of the grounds of the several sacrifices , makes it appear , that the expiatory sacrifices before the law , were all burnt-offerings ; and of all those who were not under the particular obligation of that law : as is plain in the expiatory sacrifices of iob for h●s sons , and for his fr●ends , which were burnt-offerings ; and among the iews , all the sacrifices that were offered up before the levitical law , were , as the iews themselves tell us , only burnt-offerings : and after the setling of their worship among themselves , they did receive burnt-offerings for expiation from strangers , as mr. selden at large proves from the iewish writers . it seems then very strange , that since burnt-offerings before the law were expiatory , and under the law they continued so for strangers , they should be of another nature for the iews themselves . but what reason is there for it in the text ? not the least that i can find , but expresly the contrary . for in the beginning of leviticus , where the law for burnt-offerings is delivered , the words are , and he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt-offering , and it shall be accepted for him , to make atonement for him ; which is as much as is ever said of any expiatory sacrifices : and in the verse before , where we render 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of his own voluntary will ; it is by the vulgar latin rendred , ad placandum sibi dominum ; by the syriack version , ad placationem sibi obtinendam à domino ; and to the same purpose by the chaldee paraphrast ; but no one version considerable that so renders it , as to make burnt-offerings to be free-will offerings here , which are spoken of distinctly , and by themselves afterwards : and the chaldee paraphrast , ionathan thus explains , this is the law of the burnt-offering ; i. e. quod venit ad expiandum pro cogitationibus cordis ; but although the iews be not fully agreed what the burnt-offerings were designed to expiate , yet they consent that they were of an expiatory nature . which might make us the more wonder , that crellius and others should exclude them from it , but the only reason given by him is , because they are distinguished from sacrifices for sin , as though no sacrifices were of an expiatory nature but they , and then the trespass-offerings must be excluded too , for they are distinguished from sin-offerings as well as the other . the ignorance of the iews in the reason of their own customs , hath been an occasion of great mistakes among christians , concerning the nature of them ; when they judge of them according to the blind or uncertain conjectures which they make concerning them : so that the text is oft-times far clearer than their commentaries are . setting aside then the intricate and unsatisfactory niceties of the iewish writers , about the several reasons of the burnt-offerings and sin and trespass-offerings , and the differences they make between them , which are so various and incoherent , i shall propose this conjecture concerning the different reasons of them , viz. that some sacrifices were assumed into the jewish religion , which had been long in use in the world before , and were common to them with the patriarchs , and all those who in that age of the world did fear and serve god , and such were the burnt-offerings for expiation of sin , and the fruits of the earth by way of gratitude to god. other sacrifices were instituted among them , with a particular respect to themselves , as a people governed by the laws of god : and these were of several sorts ; . symbolical , of god's presence among them , such was the daily sacrifice , instituted as a testimony of god's presence , exod. . from v . to the end . . occasional , for some great mercies vouchsa●ed to them , as the passover and the solemn festivals , &c. . expiatory , for the sins committed against their law : and these were of three sorts ; . such as were wholly consumed to the honour of god , which were the burnt-offerings . . such , of which some part was consumed upon the altar , and some part sell to the share of the priests ; and these were either sins particularly enumerated by god himself , under the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or else generally comprehended under the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as being allowed to be expiated , because committed through inadvertency . . such , whereof a less part was consumed , as in the peace-offerings of the congregation , mentioned levit. . . whereof the blood was sprinkled , only the inwards burnt , and the flesh not eaten by the persons that offered them , as it was in the peace-offerings of particular persons ( of which as being private sacrifices , i have here no occasion to speak ) but only by the priests in the court : and these had something of expiation in them : for thence , saith vatablus , the peace-offering was called by the greeks 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. expiatorium , and the lxx . commonly render it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and several of the iews think the reason of the name was , that it made peace between god and him that offered it : but the great reason i insist on , is , because all the things which were used in an expiatory sacrifice , were in this too ; the slaying of the beast , the sprinkling of the blo●d , and the consumption of some part of it upon the altar as an oblation to god , which are the three ingredients of an expiatory sacrifice ; for the shedding of the blood , noted the bearing the punishment of our iniquity ; and , the sprinkling of it on the altar , and the consuming of the part of the sacrifice , or the whole there , that it was designed for the expiation of sin . from whence it follows , that the phrase of a sweet-smelling savour , being applied under the law to expiatory sacrifices , is very properly used by st. paul , concerning christ's giving up himself for us . so that from this phrase , nothing can be inferred contrary to the expiatory nature of the death of christ , but rather it is fully agreeable to it . viii . but crellius hath yet a farther argument , to prove that christ's death cannot be here meant as the expiatory sacrifice ; viz. that the notion of a sacrifice , doth consist in the oblation whereby the thing is consecrated to the honour and service of god , to which the mactation is but a bare preparation , which he proves , because the slaying the sacrifice might belong to others besides the priests , ezek. . , . but the oblation only to the priests . to this i answer , . the mactation may be considered two ways , either with a respect to the bare instrument of taking away the life , or to the design of the offerer of that which was to be sacrificed : as the mactation hath a respect only to the instruments , so it is no otherways to be considered than as a punishment ; but as it hath a respect to him that designs it for a sacrifice , so the shedding of the blood , hath an immediate influence on the expiation of sin . and that by this clear argument , the blood is said to make an atonement for the soul ; and the reason given is , because the life of the flesh is in the blood : so that which was the life , is the great thing which makes the atonement ; and when the blood was shed , the life was then given ; from whence it follows , that the great efficacy of the sacrifice for atonement lay in the shedding of the blood for that end . thence the apostle attributes remission of sins to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the shedding of the blood ; and not to the bare oblation of it on the altar , or the carrying it into the holy of holies , both which seem to be nothing else but a more solemn representation of that blood before god , which was already shed for the expiation of sins , which was therefore necessary to be performed , that the concurrence of the priest might be seen with the sacrifice in order to expiation . for if no more had been necessary but the bare slaying of the beasts , which was the meanest part of the service , the people would never have thought the institution of the priesthood necessary , and least of all that of the high-priest , unless some solemn action of his had been performed , such as the entring into the holy of holies , on the day of expiation , and carrying it , and sprinkling the blood of the sin-offering in order to the expiation of the sins of the people . and it is observable , that although the levitical law be silent in the common sacrifices , who were to kill them whether the priests or the levites ; yet on that day whereon the high-priest was to appear himself for the expiation of sin , it is expresly said , that he should not only kill the bullock of the sin-offering , which is for himself , but the goat of the sin offering , which is for the people . and although the talmudists dispute from their traditions on both sides , whether any one else might on the day of expiation , slay the sin-offerings besides the high-priest ; yet it is no news for them to dispute against the text , and the talmud it self is clear , that the high-priest did it . from whence it appears , there was something peculiar on that day as to the slaying o● the sin-offerings ; and if our adversaries opinion hold good , that the sacrifices on the day of expiation did , if not alone , yet chiefly represent the sacrifice of christ , no greater argument can be brought against themselves than this is , for the office of the high-priest did not begin at h●s carrying the blood into the holy of holies , but the slaying the sacrifice did belong to him too : from whence it will unavoidably follow , that christ did not enter into his office of high-priest , when he entred into heaven , but when the sacrifice was to be slain which was designed for the expiation of sins . it is then to no purpose at all , if crellius could prove that sometimes in ordinary sacrifices , ( which he will not say , the sacrifice of christ was represented by ) the levites might kill the beasts for sacrifice ; for it appears , that in these sacrifices , wherein themselves contend that christ's was represented , the office of the high-priest did not begin with entring into the sanctuary , but with the mactation of that sacrifice whose blood was to be carried in thither . therefore if we speak of the bare instruments of mactation in the death of christ , those were the iews , and we make not them priests in it , for they aimed at no more than taking away his life ( as the popae among the romans , and those whose bare office it was to kill the beasts for sacrifice among the iews did : ) but if we consider it with a respect to him that offered up his life to god , then we say , that christ was the high-priest in doing it ; it being designed for the expiation of sin ; and by vertue of this blood shed for that end , he enters into heaven as the holy of holies , there ever living to make intercession for us . but the vertue of the consequent acts , depends upon the efficacy of the blood shed for expiation ; otherwise the high-priest might have entred with the same effect into the holy of holies with any other blood besides that which was shed on purpose as a sin-offering , for expiation of the sins of the people ; which it was unlawful for him to do . and from hence it is , that the apostle to the hebrews insists so much on the comparison between the blood of christ , and the blood of the legal sacrifices , and the efficacy of the one far above the other , in its power of expiation ; which he needed not to have done , if the shedding of his blood , had been only a preparation for his entrance on his priesthood in heaven . so that the proper notion of a sacrifice for sin , as it notes the giving the life of one for the expiation of the sins of another , doth properly lie in the mactation , though other sacrificial acts may be consequent upon it . so it was in the animales hostiae among the romans , in which , saith macrobius , sola anima deo sacratur : of which he tells us virgil properly speaks in those words , hanc tibi eryx meliorem animam pro morte daretis . and that we may the better understand what he means by the anima here , he saith elsewhere ( as macrobius and servius observe out of his excellent skill and accuracy in the pontifical rites ) sanguine placastis ventos & virgine caesa , cum primum iliacas danai venistis ad oras : sanguine quaerendi reditus , animaque litandum argolica . which shews , that the expiation was supposed to lie in the blood which they called the soul , as the scripture doth . and the persians , as strabo tells us , looked upon the bare mactation as the sacrifice , for they did not porricere as the romans called it , they laid none of the parts of the sacrifice upon the altar to be consumed there , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for god regarded nothing but the soul in the sacrifice : which words eustathius likewise useth upon homer , of the sacrifices of the magi. and strabo affirms of the ancient lusitani , that they cut off nothing of the sacrifice , but consumed the entrails whole ; but though such sacrifices which were for divination were not thought expiatory , and therefore different from the animales hostiae , yet among the persians , every sacrifice had a respect to expiation of the whole people . for herodotus tells us , that every one that offers sacrifice among them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , prays for good to all persians and the king. but thus much may serve to prove against crellius , that the mactation in an expiatory sacrifice , was not a meer preparation to a sacrifice , but that it was a proper sacrificial act , and consequently that christ acted as high-priest , when he gave himself for us , an offering and a sacrifice to god for a sweet-smelling savour . ix . but this will further appear from those places wherein christ is said to offer up himself once to god : the places to this purpose are , heb. . . who needeth not daily as those high-priests to offer up sacrifice , first for his own sins , and then for the peoples , for this he did once , when he offered up himself . heb. . . how much more shall the blood of christ , who through the eternal spirit offered himself without spot to god , purge your conscience from dead works , to serve the living god. v. , , , . nor yet that he should offer himself often , as the high-priest entreth into the holy place every year with the blood of others ; for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world : but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself . and as it is appointed to men once to die , but after this the iudgment : so christ was once offered to bear the sins of many , and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation . heb. . , , . by the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of iesus christ once for all . and every high-priest , standeth daily ministring and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices , which can never take away sins : but this man after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever , sate down on the right hand of god. to these places crellius gives this answer , that the name of oblation as applyed to christ , primarily signifies christ's first entrance into heaven , and appearance before the face of god , there , but consequently the continuance of that appearance ; so that when a thing is once actually exhibited and presented , it is said to be once offered , although being offered , it always remains in the same place , and so may be said to be a continual oblation . but this first appearance , saith he , hath a peculiar agreement with the legal oblation ; and therefore the name of oblation doth most properly belong to that , because christ by this means obtained that power on which the perfect remission of our sins depends : but although the continuance of that appearance , seems only consequentially to have the name of oblation belonging to it , yet in its own nature , it hath a nearer conjunction with the effect of the oblation , viz. the remission of sins , or deliverance from punishment , and doth of it self confer more to it than the other doth . and therefore in regard of that , christ is said most perfectly to exercise his priesthood , and to offer and intercede for us , from the time he is said to sit down at the right hand of god. against this answer , i shall prove these two things , . that it is incoherent , and repugnant to it self . . that it by no means agrees to the places before mentioned . . that it is incoherent and repugnant to it self in two things . . in making that to be the proper oblation in correspondency to the oblations of the law , which hath no immediate respect to the expiation of sins . . in making that to have the most immediate respect to the expiation of sins , which can in no tolerable sense be called an oblation . for the first , since crellius saith , that the proper notion of oblation is to be taken from the oblations in the levitical law , we must consider what it was there , and whether christ's first entrance into heaven can have any correspondency with it . an oblation under the law was in general , any thing which was immediately dedicated to god , but in a more limited sense it was proper to what was dedicated to him by way of sacrifice according to the appointments of the levitical law. we are not now enquiring what was properly called an oblation in other sacrifices , but in those which then were for expiation of sin ; and in the oblation was , first of the persons for whom the sacrifice was offered . so in the burnt-offering , the person who brought it , was to offer it at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation : i. e. as the iews expound it , at the entrance of the court of the priests , and there he was to lay his hands upon the head of it , and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him . this offering was made before the beast was slain ; after the killing the beast , then the priests were to make an offering of the blood , by sprinkling it round about the altar of burnt-offerings ; the rest of the blood , say the iews , was poured out by the priests , at the south-side of the altar upon the foundation , where the two holes were for the passage into the channel , which convey'd the blood into the valley of kidron ; thus the blood being offered , the parts of the beast , were by the priests to be laid upon the altar , and there they were all to be consumed by fire ; and then it was called an offering made by fire , of a sweet savour unto the lord. the same rites were used in the peace-offerings , and trespass-offerings , as to the laying on of hands , and the sprinkling the blood , and consuming some part by fire : and in the sin-offerings , there was to be the same imposition of hands : but concerning the sprinkling of the blood , and the way of consuming the remainders of the sacrifice , there was this considerable difference ; that in the common sin-offerings for particular persons , the blood was sprinkled upon the horns of the altar of burnt-offerings , but in the sin-offerings for the high-priest and the congregation , or all the people , he was to carry the blood within the sanctuary , and to sprinkle of it seven times before the veil of the sanctuary ; and some of the blood was to be put upon the horns of the altar of incense ; but the remainder of the blood , and the same things ( which were offered by fire in peace-offerings ) were to be disposed of accordingly , on the altar of burnt-offerings . and withal , there was this great difference , that in other sin-offerings the priests were to eat the remainder of the sacrifice in the holy place ; but in these there was nothing to be eaten by them ; for the whole bullock was to be carried forth without the camp , and there he was to be burned till all were consumed . for it was an express law , that no sin-offerings , whereof any of the blood is brought into the tabernacle of the congregation , to reconcile withal in the holy-place , shall be eaten : it shall be burnt in the fire . all the difference that was on the great day of atonement , was this , that the high-priest himself was to slay the sin-offerings , and then to carry the blood of them into the holy of holies , and there was to sprinkle the blood with his finger towards the mercy-seat seven times : after which , & the sending away the scape-goat , the ceremonies were the same for the atonement of the people , which were at other solemn sin-offerings , for the priest or the people . x. from all which being thus laid together , we shall observe several things , which are very material to our purpose : . that in the oblations which were made for expiation of sins , the difference between the mactation and the oblation , did arise from the difference between the priest and the sacrifice . for the priest's office was to atone , but he was to atone by the sacrifice ; on which account , although the priest were to offer the sacrifice for himself , yet the oblation did not lie in the bare presenting himself before god , but in the presenting the blood of that sacrifice , which was shed in order to expiation . if we could have supposed , that the high-priest under the law , instead of offering a goat for a sin-offering for the people , on the day of atonement , should have made an oblation of himself to god , by dying for the expiation of their sins : in this case , his death being the sacrifice , and himself the priest , the mactation , as it relates to his own act , and his oblation had been one and the same thing . for his death had been nothing else , but the offering up himself to god , in order to the expiation of the sins of the people ; and there can be no reason , why the oblation must be of necessity something consequent to his death , since all things necessary to a perfect oblation do concur in it . for where there is something solemnly devoted to god , and in order to the expiation of sins , and by the hand of a priest , there are all things concurring to a legal oblation ; but in this case , all these things do concur , and therefore there can be no imaginable necessity of making the oblation of christ , only consequent to his ascension , since in his death all things concur to a proper oblation . in the law , we grant that the oblation made by the priest , was consequent to the death of the beast for sacrifice ; but the reason of that was , because the beast could not offer up it self to god , and god had made it necessary , that the priest should expiate sins , not by himself , but by those sacrifices , and therefore the oblation of the blood was after the sacrifice was slain ; neither could this have been solved barely by the priest's slaying of the sacrifices ; for this being an act of violence towards the beasts that were thus killed , could not be a proper oblation , which must suppose a consent antecedent to it . all which shewed the great imperfection of the levitical law , in which so many several things were to concur , to make up a sacrifice for sin ; viz. the first offering made by the party concerned , of what was under his dominion , viz. the beast to be sacrificed at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation , but the beast not being able to offer up it self , if was necessary for the offering up its blood , that it must be slain by others ; and for the better understanding , not only of the efficacy of the blood , but the concurrence of the priest for expiation , he was to take the blood , and sprinkle some of it on the altar , and pour out the rest at the foundation of it . but since we assert a far more noble and excellent sacrifice , by the son of god freely offering up himself , to be made a sacrifice for the sins of the world , why may not this be as proper an oblation made unto god , as any was under the law , and far more excellent , both in regard of the priest and the sacrifice : why should his oblation of himself then be made only consequent to his death and resurrection ? which latter , being by our adversaries made not his own act , but god's upon him , and his entrance into heaven , being given him ( as they assert ) as a reward of his sufferings , in what tolerable sense can that be called an oblation of himself , which was conferred upon him as a reward of his former sufferings ? from whence it follows , that upon our adversaries own grounds , the death of christ may far more properly be called the oblation of himself , than his entrance into heaven ; and that there is no necessity of making the oblation of christ consequent to his death , there being so great a difference between the sacrifice of christ , and that of the sacrifices for sin under the levitical law. . we observe , that the oblation as performed by the priest , did not depend upon his presenting himself before god , but upon the presenting the blood of a sacrifice , which had been already slain for the expiation of sins . if the priest had gone into the holy of holies , and there only presented himself before the mercy-seat , and that had been all required in order to the expiation of sins , there had been some pretence for our adversaries making christ's presenting himself in heaven , to be the oblation of himself to god ; but under the law , the efficacy of the high priest's entrance into the holy of holies , did depend upon the blood which he carried in thither , which was the blood of the sin-offering , which was already slain for the expiation of sins : and in correspondency to this , christ's efficacy in his entrance into heaven , as it respects our expiation , must have a respect to that sacrifice which was offered up to god antecedent to it . and i wonder our adversar●es do so much insist on the high priest's entring into the most holy place once a year , as though all the expiation had depended upon that ; whereas all the promise of expiation , was not upon his bare entrance into it , but upon the blood which he carried along with him , and sprinkled there : in correspondency to which , our saviour is not barely said to enter into heaven , and present himself to god , but that he did this by his own blood , having obtained eternal redemption for us . . we observe , that there was something corres●ondent in the death of christ , to somewhat consequent to the oblation under the law , and therefore there can be no reason to suppose , that the oblation of christ must be consequent to his death : for that destroys the correspondency between them . now this appears in this particular , in the solemn sacrifices for sin , after the sprinkling of the blood , which was carried into the holy place to reconcile withall , all the remainder of the sacrifice was to be burnt without the camp , and this held on the day of atonement , as well as in other sin-offerings for the congregation . now the author to the hebrews tells us , that in correspondency to this , iesus that he might sanctifie the people with his own blood , suffered without the gate : what force is there in this , unless the blood of christ did answer to the sin-offerings for the people , and his oblation was supposed to be made before ; and therefore that he might have all things agreeable to those sin-offerings , the last part was to be compleated too ; viz. that he was to suffer without the gate ; which after the peoples settlement in ierusalem , answered to the being burnt without the camp in the wilderness . . we observe , that the oblation in expiatory sacrifices under the law , by the priest , had always relation to the consumption of what was offered : thus the offering of the blood , in token of the destruction of the life of the beast , whose blood was offered ; for no blood was to be offered of a living creature , nor of one killed upon any other account , but for that end to be a sacrifice for sin , and after the sprinkling and pouring out of the blood , the inwards of some , and all of the other , were to be consumed by fire . and it is observable , that the greater the sacrifice for sin was , always the more was consumed of it ; as appears plainly by the forementioned difference of the sin-offerings for private persons , and for the people ; of the former , the priests were allowed to eat , but not at all of the latter . and so it was observed among the egyptians , in the most solemn sacrifices for expiation , nothing was allowed to be eaten of that part which was designed for that end . for herodotus gives us an account why the egyptians never eat the head of any living creatu●e ; which is , that when they offer up a sacrifice , they make a solemn execration upon it , that if any evil were to fall upon the persons who sacrificed , or upon all egypt , it might be turned upon the head of that beast : and plutarch adds , that after this solemn execration , they cut off the head , and of old , threw it into the river , but then gave it to strangers . from which custom we observe , that in a solemn sacrifice for expiation , the guilt of the offenders , was by this rite of execration supposed to be transferred upon the head of the sacrifice , as it was in the sacrifices among the jews , by the laying on of hands ; and that nothing was to be eaten of what was supposed to have that guilt transferred upon it . from hence all expiatory sacrifices were at first whole burnt-offerings , as appears by the patriarchal sacrifices , and the customs of other nations , and among the jews themselves , as we have already proved in all solemn offerings for the people . and although in the sacrifices of private persons , some parts were allowed to be eaten by the priests ; yet those which were designed for expiation were consumed . so that the greater the offering was to god , the more it implied the consumption of the thing which was so offered : how strangely improbable then is it , that the oblation of christ should not ( as under the law ) have respect to his death and sufferings ; but to his entrance into heaven , wherein nothing is supposed to be consumed , but all things given him with far greater power , as our adversaries suppose , than ever he had before . but we see the apostle parallels christ's suffering with the burning of the sacrifices , and his blood with the blood of them , and consequently his offering up himself , must relate not to his entrance into heaven , but to that act of his whereby he suffered for sins , and offered up his blood as a sacrifice for the sins of the world . xi . from all which it appears ; how far more agreeably to the oblations under the law , christ is said to offer up himself for the expiation of sins by his death and sufferings , than by his entrance into heaven ; for it is apparent , that the oblations in expiatory sacrifices under the law , were such upon which the expiation of sin did chiefly depend ; but by our adversaries own confession , christ's oblation of himself by his entrance into heaven , hath no immediate respect at all to the expiation of sin : only as the way whereby he was to enjoy that power by which he did expiate sins , as crellius saith ; now , let us consider , what more propriety there is in making this presenting of christ in heaven to have a correspondency with the legal oblations , than the offering up himself upon the cross. for , . on the very same reason that his entrance into heaven is made an oblation , his death is so too ; viz. because it was the way whereby he obtained the power of expiation ; and far more properly so than the other , since they make christ's entrance and power the reward of his sufferings , but they never make his sitting at the right hand of god , the reward of his entrance into heaven . . his offering up himself to god upon the cross , was his own act , but his entrance into heaven was god's , as themselves acknowledge , and therefore could not in any propriety of speech be called christ's offering up himself . . if it were his own act , it could not have that respect to the expiation of sins , which his death had ; for our adversaries say , that his death was by reason of our sins , and that he suffered to purge us from sin ; but his entrance into heaven was upon his own account , to enjoy that power and authority , which he was to have at the right hand of god. . how could christ's entrance into heaven , be the way for his enjoying that power which was necessary for the expiation of sin , when christ before his entrance into heaven , saith , that all power was given to him in heaven and earth : and the reason assigned in scripture of that power and authority which god gave him is , because he humbled himself , and became obedient to death , even the death of the cross : so that the entrance of christ into heaven , could not be the means of obtaining that power which was conferred before ; but the death of christ is mentioned on that account in scripture . . if the death of christ were no expiatory sacrifice , the entrance of christ into heaven could be no oblation proper to a high priest ; for his entrance into the holy of holies , was on the account of the blood of the sin-offering which he carried in with him . if there were then no expiatory sacrifice before , that was slain for the sins of men ; christ could not be said to make any oblation in heaven , for the oblation had respect to a sacrifice already slain ; so that if men deny that christ's death was a proper sacrifice for sin , he could make no oblation at all in heaven , and christ could not be said to enter thither , as the high priest entred into the holy of holies with the blood of the sacrifice ; which is the thing which the author to the hebrews asserts concerning christ. xii . . there is as great an inconsistency in making the exercise of christ's power in heaven , an oblation in any sense , as in making christ's entrance into heaven , to be the oblation which had correspondency with the oblations of the law. for what is there which hath the least resemblance with an oblation in it ? hath it any respect to god , as all the legal oblations had ? no , for his intercession and power , crellius saith , respect us , and not god. was there any sacrifice at all in it for expiation ? how is it possible , that the mere exercise of power should be called a sacrifice ? what analogy is there at all between them ? and how could he be then said most perfectly to exercise his priesthood , when there was no consideration at all of any sacrifice offered up to god ? so that upon these suppositions the author to the hebrews must argue upon strange similitudes , and fancy resemblances to himself , which it was impossible for the iews to understand him in , who were to judge of the nature of priesthood and oblations in a way agreeable to the institutions among themselves . but was it possible for them to understand such oblations and a priesthood which had no respect at all to god , but wholly to the people ; and such a entrance into the holy of holies without the blood of an expiatory sacrifice for the sins of the people ? but such absurdities do men betray themselves into , when they are forced to strain express places of scripture to serve an hypothesis , which they think themselves oblig'd to maintain . xiii . we now come to shew that this interpretation of crellius doth not agree with the circumstances of the places before mentioned , , which will easily appear by these brief considerations . . that the apostle always speaks of the offering of christ as a thing past and once done , so as not to be done again ; which had been very improper , if by the oblation of christ , he had meant the continual appearance of christ in heaven for us , which yet is , and will never cease to be till all his enemies be made his footstool . . that he still speaks in allusion to the sacrifices which were in use among the iews , and therefore the oblation of christ must be in such a way as was agreeable to what was used in the levitical sacrifices , which we have already at large proved he could not do in our adversaries sense . . that the apostle speaks of such a sacrifice for sins to which the sitting at the right hand of god was consequent ; so that the oblation antecedent to it must be properly that sacrifice for sins which he offered to god ; and therefore the exercise of his power for expiation of sins , which they say is meant by sitting at the right hand of god , cannot be that sacrifice for sins : neither can his entrance into heaven be it , which in what sense it can be called a sacrifice for sins , since themselves acknowledge it had no immediate relation to the expiation of them , i cannot understand . . the apostle speaks of such an offering of christ once , which if it had been repeated , doth imply , that christ's sufferings must have been repeated too . for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world : but the repeated exercise of christ's power in heaven doth imply no necessity at all of christ's frequent suffering , nor his frequent entrance into heaven ; which might have been done without suffering , therefore it must be meant of such an offering up himself as was implyed in his death and sufferings . . he speaks of the offering up of that body which god gave him when he came into the world ; but our adversaries deny , that he carried the same body into heaven , and therefore he must speak not of an offering of christ in heaven , but what was performed here on earth . but here our adversaries have shewn us a tryal of their skill , when they tell us with much confidence that the world into which christ is here said to come , is not to be understood of this world , but of that to come , which is not only contrary to the general acceptation of the word when taken absolutely as it is here , but to the whole scope and design of the place . for he speaks of that world wherein sacrifices and burnt-offerings were used , and the levitical law was observed , although not sufficient for perfect expiation , and so rejected for that end ; and withal he speaks of that world wherein the chearful obedience of christ to the will of his father was seen , for he saith , lo i come to do thy will , o god , which is repeated afterwards ; but will they say , that this world was not the place into which christ came to obey the will of his father ? and how could it be so properly said of the future world , lo i come to do thy will ; when they make the design of his ascension to be the receiving the reward of his doing and suffering the will of god upon earth ? xiv . but yet they attempt to prove from the same author to the hebrews , that christ's entrance into heaven , was necessary to his being a perfect high-priest ; for he was to be made higher than the heavens ; and if he were on earth , he should not be a priest ; but he was a priest after the power of an endless life : neither could he , say they , be a perfect high-priest , till those words were spoken to him , thou art my son , this day have i begotten thee ; which as appears by other places , was after the resurrection : but all the sufferings he underwent in the world , were only to qualify him for this office in heaven ; therefore it is said , that in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren , that he might be a merciful and faithful high-priest , &c. this is the substance of what is produced by crellius and his brethren , to prove that christ did not become a perfect high-priest , till he entred into heaven : but it were worth the knowing , what they mean by a perfect high-priest ; is it that christ did then begin the office of a high-priest , and that he made no offering at all before ? no , that they dare not assert at last , but that there was no perfect sacrifice offered for sin , otherwise socinus contends , that christ did offer upon earth , and that for himself too : so that all kind of offering is not excluded by themselves , before christ's 〈◊〉 into heaven ▪ but if they mean by perfect high-priest in heaven , that his office of high-priest was not consummated by what he did on earth , but that a very considerable part of the priesthood of christ was still remaining to be performed in heaven ; it is no more than we do freely acknowledge , and this is all we say is meant by those places : for the apostles design is to prove , the excellency of the priesthood of christ above the aaronical ; which he doth , not only from the excellency of the sacrifice which he offered , above the blood of bulls and goats ; but from the excellency of the priest , who did excel the aaronical priests ; both in regard of his calling from god , which is all the apostle designs , heb. . . not at all intending to determine the time when he was made , but by whom he was made high-priest , even by him that had said , thou art my son , &c. and in regard of the excellency of the sanctuary which he entred into , which was not an earthly , but a heavenly sanctuary ; and in regard of the perpetuity of his function there , not going in once a year , as the high-priests under the law did , but there ever living to make intercession for vs ; now this being the apostles design , we may easily understand why he saith , that he was to be a heavenly high-priest , and if he had been on earth , he could not have been a priest : the meaning of which is only this , that if christ's office had ended in what he did on earth , he would not have had such an excellency as he was speaking of ; for then he had ceased to be at all such a high priest , having no holy of holies to go into , which should as much transcend the earthly sanctuary , as his sacrifice did the blood of bulls and goats : therefore in correspondency to that priesthood , which he did so far excell in all the parts of it , he was not to end his priesthood merely with the blood which was shed for a sacrifice , but he was to carry it into heaven , and present it before god , and to be a perpetual intercessor in the behalf of his people : and so was in regard of the perpetuity of his office , a priest after the law of an endless life : but lest the people should imagine , that so great and excellent a high priest , being so far exalted above them , should have no sense or compassion upon the infirmities of his people , therefore to encourage them to adhere to him , he tells them , that he was made like to his brethren ; and therefore they need not doubt , but by the sense which he had of the infirmities of humane nature , he will have pity on the weaknesses of his people ; which is all the apostle means by those expressions . so that none of these places do destroy the priesthood of christ on earth , but only assert the excellency , and the continuance of it in heaven : which latter , we are as far from denying , as our adversaries are from granting the former . and thus much may suffice for the second thing , to prove the death of christ a proper sacrifice for sin ; viz. the oblation which christ made of himself to god by it . chap. vi. i. that the effects of proper expiatory sacrifices belong to the death of christ , which either respect the sin or the person . of the true notion of expiation of sin , as attributed to sacrifices . of the importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as applied to them . socinus his proper sense of it examined . ii. crellius his objections answered . iii. the iews notion of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the sacrifices not bare conditions of pardon , nor expiated merely as a slight part of obedience . iv. god's expiating sin , destroys not expiation by sacrifice . v. the importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , relating to sacrifices . vi. expiation attributed to the sacrifice of christ , in the same sense that it was to other sacrifices . vii . and from thence , and the places of scripture which mention it , proved not to be merely declarative . if it had been so , it had more properly belonged to his resurrection than his death . viii . the death of christ not taken metonymically for all the consequents of it ; because of the peculiar effects of the death of christ in scripture . ix . and because expiation is attributed to him antecedently to his entrance into heaven . x. no distinction in scripture of the effects of christ's entrance into heaven from his sitting at the right hand of god. xi . the effects of an expiatory sacrifice , respecting the person , belong to the death of christ , which are atonement and reconciliation . of the signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . xii . the reconciliation by christ's death , doth not merely respect us , but god ; why the latter less used in the new testament . a twofold reconciliation with god mentioned in scripture . crellius his evasion answered . xiii . the objections from god's being reconciled in the sending his son. xiv . and the inconsistency of the freeness of grace with the doctrine of satisfaction answered , and the whole concluded . i. the last thing to prove the death of christ a proper expiatory sacrifice , is , that the effects of a proper sacrifice for sin are attributed to it . which do either respect the sins committed , and are then called expiation and remission , or the persons , who were guilty of them , as they stand obnoxious to the displeasure of god , and so the effect of them is atonement and reconciliation . now these we shall prove do most properly and immediately refer to the death of christ ; and are attributed to it , as the procuring cause of them ; and not as a bare condition of christ's entrance into heaven , or as comprehending in it the consequents of it . i b●gin with the expiation and remission of sins ; as to which socinus doth acknowledge , that the great correspondency doth lie between christ's and the legal sacrifices . we are therefore to enquire : . what respect the expiation of sins had to the sacrifices under the law. . in what sense the expiation of sins is attributed to the sacrifice of christ : for the due explication of the respect which expiation of sins had to the legal sacrifices , we are to consider in what sense expiation is understood , and in what respect it is attributed to them . for this we are to enquire into the importance of the several phrases it is set forth by , which are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the old testament , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the new ; all which are acknowledged by our adversaries to have a peculiar respect to the expiation made by a sacrifice . we shall begin with the former , because crellius objects this against grotius , that he imployed his greatest diligence in the explication of the greek and latin words for expiation of sin , and was contented only to say , that the hebrew words would bear the same signification : whereas , saith he , he ought to have proved , that the hebrew words do require that sense which he takes them in . but by crellius his leave , grotius took the best course was to be taken in words , whose signification is so obscure as those are in the hebrew language . for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being so very rarely used in scripture in that which socinus and crellius contend to be the proper and natural signification of it ; viz. to hide or cover , and so frequently in the sense of expiation , what better way could be taken for determining the sense of it , as applied to sacrifices , than by insisting upon those words which are used in the new testament , to the very same purpose that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used in the old ? for they cannot pretend that which they say is the most proper sense , can be applied to this subject , viz. to cover with pitch , or a bituminous matter , which is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , gen. . . therefore it must of necessity be taken in another sense here . but socinus contends , that it ought to be taken in a sense most agreeable to that , which is , saith he , that the expiation of sin be nothing else , but the covering of it , by god's grace and benignity . thence , saith he , david saith , blessed is the man whose iniquity is covered . but how can this prove , that the proper signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as applied to sin , is covered by god's grace , when neither the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is here used , nor is there any respect at all mentioned of an expiation by sacrifice , which is the thing we are discoursing of ? and is the covering of sin such an easie and intelligible phrase , that this should be made choice of to explain the difficulty of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by ? what is it that they would have us understand by the covering sin ? surely not to make it stronger and more lasting , as the ark was covered , with that bituminous matter for that end , and yet this would come the nearest to the proper sense of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so that from their own interpretation it appears , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as applied to the expiation of sin by sacrifices , cannot be taken so much as in allusion to that other sense ; for their sense of expiation , is either by the destruction of sin , or deliverance of the sinner from the punishment of it , but what resemblance is there between the covering of a thing , in order to its preservation , and the making it not to be , or at least destroying all the power of it ? but supposing we should grant that it hath some allusion to the sense of covering , why must it necessarily be supposed to be done by the meer grace of god , as excluding all antecedent causes which should move to it ? would not the propriety of the sense remain as well , supposing a moving cause , as excluding it ? what should hinder , but that god may be said as well to cover sin upon a sacrifice as to forgive it , and this is very frequently used upon a sacrifice , that the sin shall be forgiven ? but yet themselves acknowledge , that the sacrifices were conditions required in order to expiation ; if then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath an immediate respect to god's immediate favour and benignity , how comes it to be used where a condition is necessarily supposed in order to it ? had it not been more agreeable to this benignity of god to have pardon'd sin without requiring any sacrifice for it , than so strictly insisting upon the offering up sacrifice in order to it , and then declaring that the sin is expiated , and it should be forgiven ? from hence we see that there is no necessity why 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should be use as applied to sacrifices in a sense most agreeable to that of covering with pitch , nor that it is not possible it should have such a sense when applied to sins ; and withal that it is very consistent with an antecedent condition to it , and therefore can by no means destroy satisfaction . ii. yes , saith crellius , it doth , for expiation is explained in the law by non imputation , deut. . . be merciful , o lord , unto thy people israel whom thou hast redeemed , and lay not innocent blood unto thy people of israel's charge ; and the blood shall be forgiven them . but not to impute , saith he , and to receive true and full satisfaction overthrow each other : and so expiation being the same with that , will overthrow it too . to this i answer , . i grant that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is here used both as applied to god , and to the sin , and that the sense of it is used as to the people , when the prayer is that god would not lay it to their charge , which is the same with expiating of it . . we are to consider , what the foundation of this prayer was , viz. the slaying of the heifer for expiation of the uncertain murder ; and when the elders had washed their hands over the head of the heifer , then they were to protest their own innocency , and to use this prayer . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 expiate thy people israel , &c. i. e. accept of this sacrifice as an expiation for them , and so charge not on them the innocent blood , &c. and upon doing of this it is said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the blood shall be expiated , i. e. as the vulgar latin explains it , the guilt of the blood shall be taken from them . but how then should the expiating sin upon a sacrifice slain in order thereto , destroy that satisfaction which we assert by the blood of christ being shed in order to the expiation of our sins ? nay , it much rather sheweth the consistency and agreeableness of these one with another . for we have before proved , that the sacrifice here did expiate the sin by a substitution , and bearing the guilt which could not have been expiated without it . but crellius further urgeth , that god himself is here said to expiate , and therefore to expiate cannot signifie to atone or satisfie ; in which sense christ may be said to expiate too , not by atoning or satisfying , but by not imputing sins , or taking away the punishment of them by his power . to which we need no other answer than what crellius himself elsewhere gives , viz. that socinus never denies but that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signifie to appease or atone ; which is most evidently proved from the place mention'd by grotius , gen. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 expiabo faciem ejus in munere , saith the interlineary version , placabo illum muneribus , the vulg. lat. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the lxx . and all the circumstances of the place make it appear to be meant in the proper sense of appeasing the anger of a person by something which may move him to shew favour . and if crellius will yield this to be the sense of expiation as applied to the sacrifice of christ , he need not quarrel with the word satisfaction . but why should he rather attribute that sense of expiation to christ , which is alone given to god , wherein the expiation is attributed to him that receives the sacrifice , rather than to him that offers the sacrifice in order to the atonement of another ? since it is acknowledged that christ did offer a sacrifice ; and therefore there can be no reason why that sense of expiation should not belong to him , which was most peculiar to that ; which we shall now sh●w to be of the same kind with what is here mentioned , viz. an appeasing by a gift offered up to god. so we find the word used to the same sense , sam. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and wherewith shall i make the atonement , i. e. wherewith shall i satisfie you for all the wrong which saul hath done unto you ? and we see afterwards it was by the death of saul's sons . in which place it cannot be denied but that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not only signifies to appease , but such a kind of satisfaction as is by the death of some for the faults of others ; and so comes home , not only to the importance of the expiation belonging to a sacrifice in general ; but to such a kind of expiation as is by the suffering of some in the place of others . which though it be more clear and distinct , where one man suffers for others , yet this was sufficiently represented in the sacrifices under the law , in which we have already proved that there was a substitution of them in the place of the offenders . iii. and in this sense the iews themselves do understand 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , viz. such an expiation as is made by the substitution of one in the place of another . of which many instances are collected by buxtorf , wherein 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is taken by the rabbinical writers for such an expiation , whereby one was to undergo a punishment in the place of another . so when in the title sanhedrin the people say to the high-priest 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 simus nos expiatio tua , let us be for an expiation for you , the gloss explains it thus , hoc est , in nobis fiat expiatio tua , nosque subeamus tuo loco quicquid tibi evenire debet . and when they tell us how children ought to honour their parents after their death , they say when they recite any memorable speech of their fathers , they are not barely to say , my father said so : but my lord and father said so , would i had been the expiation of his death : i. e. as they explain it themselves , would i had undergone what he did , and they give this general rule , where ever it is said , behold i am for expiation , it is to be understood , behold i am in the place of another to bear his iniquities . so that this signifies the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or a price of redemption for others . hence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is taken for a price of redemption of the life of another , and rendred by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , exod. . . — . . numb . . , . where we render it satisfaction , and by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , psal. . . and thereby we fully understand , what our saviour meant when he said , that he gave his soul , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a ransome for many , and to this day the iews call the cock which they kill for expiation on the day of atonement , by the name of cappara ; and when they beat the cock against their heads thrice , they every time use words to this purpose , let this cock be an exchange for me , let him be in my room , and be made an expiation for me : let death come to him , but to me and all israel life and happiness . i insist on these things , only to let us understand , that the iews never understood 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the sense our adversaries contend for , when applyed to an expiatory sacri●ice , but as implying a commutation , and a substitution of one in the place of another , so as by the punishment of that , the other in whose room he suffers , may obtain deliverance . which is the sense we plead for . but the utmost which * socinus and crellius will allow to the sacrifices in order to expiation , is barely this , that the offering of them is to be considered ●s a meer condition ( that hath no other respect to the expiation of sins , than the paring a mans nails would have had , if god had required it ) upon which slight obedien●e , the pardon of some light sins mig●t be ob●ained . but can any one imagine , that this was all that was designed by the sacrifices of old , who considers the antiquity and universality of them in the world in those elder times before the law , the great severity by which they were requir'd under the law , the punctual prescriptions that were made in all circumstances for them , the vast and almost inestimable expence the people were at about them , but above all , the reason that god himself assigns in the law , that the blood was given for expiation , because it was the life , and the correspondency so clearly expressed in the new testament , between the sacrifice of christ , and those levitical sacrifices ? can any one , i say , imagine upon these considerations , that the sacrifices had no other respect to the expiation of sin , than as they were a slight testimony of their obedience to god ? why were not an inward sorrow for sin , and tears and prayers rather made the only conditions of expiation than such a burthensome and chargeable service imposed upon them , which at last signified nothing , but that a command being supposed , they would have sinned if they had broken it ? but upon our supposition a reasonable account is given of all the expiatory sacrifices ; viz. that god would have them see , how highly he esteemed his laws , because an expiation was not to be made for the breach of them , but by the sacrificing of the life of some creature which he should appoint instead of the death of the offender ; and if the breach of those laws which he had given them must require such an expiation , what might they then think would the sins of the whole world do , which must be expiated by a sacrifice infinitely greater than all those put together were ; viz. the death and sufferings of the son of god for the sins of men ? but if the offering sacrifice had been a bare condition required of the person who committed the fault , in order to expiation ; why is it never said , that the person who offered it , did expiate his own fault thereby ? for that had been the most proper sense ; for if the expiation did depend on the offering the sacrifice , as on the condition of it , then the performing the condition , gave him an immediate right to the benefit of the promise . if it be said , that his own act was not only necessary in bringing the sacrifice , but the priests also in offering up the blood : this will not make it at all the more reasonable ; because the pardon of sin should not only depend upon a man 's own act , but upon the act of another , which he could not in reason be accountable for , if he miscarried in it . if the priest should refuse to do his part , or be unfit to do it , or break some law in the doing of it , how hard would it seem that a mans sins could not be expiated , when he had done all that lay in his own power in order to the expiation of them , but that another person , whose actions he had no command over , neglected the doing his duty ? so that if the sacrifice had no other influence on expiation , but as a part of obedience , in all reason the expiation should have depended on no other conditions but such as were under the power of him , whose sins were to be expiated by it . iv. but crellius urgeth against our sense of expiation , that if it were by substitution , then the expiation would be most properly attributed to the sacrifices themselves ; whereas it is only said , that by the sacrifices the expiation is obtained ; but that god or the priest do expiate and to god it belongs properly , because he takes away the guilt and punishment of sin ; which is , saith he , all meant by expiation ; to the priest only consequently , as doing what god requires in order to it ; and to the sacrifices only as the conditions by which it was obtained . but if the expiation doth properly belong to god , and implies no more than bare pardon , it is hard to conceive that it should have any necessary relation to the blood of the sacrifice : but the apostle to the hebrews tells us , that remission had a necessary respect to the shedding of blood , so that without that there was no remission . how improperly doth the apostle discourse throughout that chapter , wherein he speaks so much concerning the blood of the sacrifices purifying , and in correspondency to that , the blood of christ purging our consciences ; and that all things under the law , were purified with blood ; had all this no other signification , but that this was a bare condition that had no other importance , but as a mere act of obedience when god had required it ? why doth not the apostle rather say , without god●s favour there is no remission , than without the shedding of blood ; if all the expiation did properly belong to that , and only very remotely to the blood of the sacrifice ? what imaginable necessity was there , that christ must shed his blood in order to the expiation of our sins , if all that blood of the legal sacrifices did signifie no more than a bare condition of pardon , though a slight part of obedience in it self ? why must christ lay down his life in correspondency to these levitical sacrifices ? for that was surely no slight part of his obedience . why might not this condition have been dispensed with in him , since our adversaries say , that in it self it hath no proper efficacy on the expiation of sin ? and doth not this speak the greatest repugnancy to the kindness and grace of god in the gospel , that he would not dispense with the ignominious death of his son , although he knew it could have no influence of it self on the expiation of the sins of the world ? but upon this supposition , that the blood of sacrifices under the law had no proper influence upon expiation , the apostles discourse proceeds upon weak and insufficient grounds . for what necessity in the thing was there , because the blood of the sacrifices was made a condition of pardon under the law , therefore the blood of christ must be so now ; although in it self it hath no proper efficacy for that end ? but the apostles words and way of argumentation doth imply , that there was a peculiar efficacy both in the one and the other , in order to expiation ; although a far greater in the blood of christ , than could be in the other ; as the thing typified , ought to exceed that which was the representation of it . from hence we see , that the apostle attributes what expiation there was under the law , not immediately to god , as belonging properly to him , but to the blood of bulls and goats , and the ashes of an heifer , sprinkling the unclean . which he had very great reason to do , since god expresly saith to the iews , that the blood was given them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ad expiandum , to expiate for their souls , for the blood 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shall expiate the soul. than which words , nothing could have been more plainly said to overthrow crellius his assertion , that expiation is not properly or chiefly attributed to the sacrifices , but primarily to god , and consequentially to the priest : who is never said to expiate , but by the sacrifice which he offered , so that his office was barely ministerial in it . but from this we may easily understand , in what sense god is said to expiate sins , where it hath respect to a sacrifice ( which is that we are now discoursing of , and not in any larger or more improper use of the word ) for since god himself hath declared , that the blood was given for expiation , the expiation which belongs to god , must imply his acceptance of it for that end , for which it was offered . for the execution or discharge of the punishment belonging to him , he may be said in that sense to expiate , because it is only in his power to discharge the sinner from that obligation to punishment he lies under by his sins . and we do not say , that where expiating is attributed to him that accepts the atonement , that it doth imply his undergoing any punishment which is impossible to suppose ; but that where it is attributed to a sacrifice , as the means of atonement , there we say it doth not imply a bare condition , but such a substitution of one in the place of another , that on the account of that , the fault of the offender himself is expiated thereby . v. and to this sense the other word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth very well agree ; for socinus and crellius cannot deny , but that gen. . . it properly signifies luere , or to bear punishment ; although they say , it no where else signifies so , and the reason is , because it is applied to the altar , and such other things , which are not capable of it ; but doth it hence follow , that it should not retain that signification where the matter will bear it , as in the case of sacrifices . and although it be frequently rendred by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , yet that will be no prejudice to the sense we plead for in respect of sacrifices , because those words when used concerning them , do signifie expiation too . grotius proves● , that they do from their own nature and constant use in greek authors , not only signifie an antecedency of order , but a peculiar efficacy in order to expiation . thence expiatory sacrifices among the greeks were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , frequently in homer , applied to sacrifices , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in plutarch , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used in the same sense ; an expiatory sacrifice in herodotus is call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and to the same purpose it is used in hermogenes , plato and plutarch : as among the latins , placare , purgare , purificare , conciliare , lustrare in the same sense , and piare when used in sacrifices , he proves to signifie luere per successionem rei alterius in locum poenae debitae . thence piaculum used for an expiatory sacrifice , and expiare is to appease by such a sacrifice , so cereris numen expiare is used in cicero ; filium expiare in livy . so that all these sacrifices among them were supposed still to pertain to the atoning the deity , and obtaining a remission of sins committed by them . and from hence ( because where there was a greater equality and nearness , there might be the greater efficacy of the sacrifice for expiation ) came the custom of sacrificing men , which grotius at large shews to have almost universally obtained before the coming of christ. we are now to consider what crellius answers to this ; the substance of which lies in these two things . . he denies not but that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do in their proper use in the greek tongue signifie the purging of guilt , and the aversion of the wrath of god and punishment , but that those and such other words are attributed to sacrifices , because those were supposed to be the effects of them among the heathen ; but the attributing such effects to them , did arise from their superstition , whereby greater things were attributed to sacrifices , than god would have given to them , either before or under the law. . he denies not , but that those words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being used by the author to the hebrews more than once with respect to the sacrifices and priesthood of christ , were taken in the same sense in which they are used in the greek tongue , viz. for the purgi●g of guilt , and the aversion of the wrath of god , and the punishment consequent upon it : but all that he contends for is , that there is a difference in the manner of effecting it , which he acknowledges the words themselves do not imply ; and the reasons he gives for it are , that the other were proper , but christ's an improper sacrifice ; and that the other sacrifices were offered by men to god , but the sacrifice of christ was given by god to men , and therefore he must be supposed to be reconciled before . from whence he would at least have other senses of these words joyned together with the former ; viz. either for purging away the filth of sin , or for a declaration of a deliverance from guilt and punishment , in imitation of the idiom of the hebrew , in which many words are used in the new testament . from hence it follows , that crellius doth yield the main cause , if it appear , that christ did offer up an expiatory sacrifice to god in his death , for then he grants that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being applied to the sac●●fice of christ , are to be taken for the purging away of guilt , and the aversion of the wrath of god , and the punishment of sin . and it is to no purpose to say , that it is not a proper sacrifice , for if the effects of a proper sacrifice do belong to it , that proves that it is so ; for these words being acknowledged to be applied to the sacrifice of christ by the author to the hebrews , what could more evince that christ's was a proper sacrifice , than that those things are attributed to it , which by the consent of all nations , are said to belong to proper sacrifices , and that in the very same sense in which they are used by those who understood them in the most proper sense . and what reason could crellius have to say , that it was only the superstition of the heathens , which made them attribute such effects to sacrifices ; when himself acknowledges that the very same sense doth belong to the sacrifice of christ under that notion ? and as to the iews we have already proved that the sense of expiation among them was by vertue of the law to be taken in as proper a sense as among the heathens , for the purging of guilt , and the aversion of the wrath of god. and why should crellius deny that effect of the sacrifice of christ as to the atonement of god , because god's love was seen in giving him who was to offer the sacrifice ? since that effect is attributed to those sacrifices under the law which god himself appointed to be offered , and shewed his great kindness to the people in the institution of such a way , whereby their sins might be expiated , and they delivered from the punishment of them . but of the consistency of these two , i shall speak more afterwards , in the effect of the sacrifices as relating to persons . vi. we now come to consider in what sense the expiation of sins is in scripture attributed to the sacrifice of christ , and therein i shall prove these two things . . that the expiation is attributed to the sacrifice of christ in the same sense that it is attributed to other sacrifices , and as the words in themselves do signifie . . that what is so attributed doth belong to the sacrifice of christ in his death , antecedent to his entrance into heaven . . that the expiation is to be taken in a proper sense , when it is attributed to the sacrifice of christ. crellius tells us , the controversie is not about the thing , viz. whether expiation in the sense we take it in for purging away guilt , and aversion of the wrath of god , doth belong to the sacrifice of christ , for he acknowledges it doth , but all the question is about the manner of it : which in the next section he thus explains : there are three senses in which christ may be said to expiate sins ; either by begetting faith in us , whereby we are drawn off from the practice of sin , in which sense , he saith , it is a remoter antecedent to it ; or as it relates to the expiation by actual deliverance from punishment , so he saith , it is an immediate antecedent to it : or as he declares that they are expiated , but this , he saith , doth not so properly relate to christ as a sacrifice , but as a priest. but never a one of these senses comes near to that which crellius grants to be the proper importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as applied to a sacrifice , viz. the purging away guilt , and the aversion of the wrath of god , and punishment , not any way , but by the means of the sacrifice offered . for in the legal sacrifices nothing can be more plain than that the expiation was to be by the sacrifice offered for atonement : supposing then that in some other way ( which could be by no means proper to those sacrifices ) christ may be said to expiate sins , what doth this prove that there was an expiation belonging to his sacrifice agreeable to the sacrifices of old ? but as i urged before in the case of christ's being high priest , that by their assertions the iews might utterly deny the force of any argument used by the author to the hebrews to prove it : so i say as to the expiation by christ's sacrifice , that it hath no analogy or correspondency at all with any sacrifice that was ever offered for the expiation of sins . for by that they always understood something which was immediately offered to god for that end , upon which they obtain'd remission of sins ; but here is nothing answerable to it in their sense of christ's sacrifice ; for here is no oblation at all made unto god for this end ; all the efficacy of the sacrifice of christ , in order to expiation doth wholly and immediately respect us ; so that if it be a proper sacrifice to any , it must be a sacrifice to us , and not to god : for a sacrifice is always said to be made to him whom it doth immediately respect ; but christ in the planting faith , in actual deliverance , in declaring to us this deliverance , doth wholly respect us , and therefore his sacrifice must be made to men , and not to god. which is in it self a gross absurdity , and repugnant to the nature and design of sacrifices from the first institution of them ; which were always esteemed such immediate parts of divine worship , that they ought to respect none else but god , as the object to which they were directed , though for the benefit and advantage of mankind . as well then might christ be said to pray for us , and by that no more be meant but that he doth teach us to understand our duty ; as be made an expiatory sacrifice for us , and all the effect of it only respect us and not god. and this is so far from adding to the perfection of christ's sacrifice above the legal ( which is the thing pleaded by crellius ) that it destroys the very nature of a sacrifice , if such a way of expiation be attributed to it ( which though conceived to be more excellent in it self ) yet is wholly incongruous to the end and design of a sacrifice for expiation . and the excellency of the manner of expiation ought to be in the same kind , and not quite of another nature ; for , will any one say , that a general of an army hath a more excellent conduct that all that went before him , because he can make finer speeches ; or that the assomanaean family discharg'd the office of priesthood best , because they had a greater power over the people ; or that nero was the most excellent emperour of rome because he excelled the rest in musick and poetry : by which we see that to assert an excellency of one above another , we must not go to another kind , but shew its excellency in that wherein the comparison lies : so that this doth not prove the excellency of the sacrifice of christ , because he hath a greater power to perswade , deliver and govern , than any sacrifice under the law ; for these are things quite of another nature from the consideration of a sacrifice : but therein the excellency of a sacrifice is to be demonstrated , that it excells all other in the proper end and design of a sacrifice , i. e. if it be more effectual towards god for obtaining the expiation of sin ; which was always thought to be the proper end of all sacrifices for expiation . although then christ may be allowed to excel all other sacrifices in all imaginable respects but that which is the proper intention of a sacrifice ; it may prove far greater excellency in christ , but it doth withall prove a greater imperfection in his sacrifice , if it fail in that which is the proper end of it . so that if we should grant that the expiation attributed to christ's sacrifice signified no more than reclaiming men from their sins , or their deliverance by his power , or a declaration of god's decree to pardon , this may prove that there are better arguments to believe the remission of our sins now under the gospel ; but they do not in the least prove that christ is to be consider'd as a sacrifice ; much less that he doth far excell in the notion of an expiatory sacrifice all those which were offered up to god for that end under the law. vii . but we must now further consider , whether this be all attributed to christ in order to expiation in scripture ; i. e. whether those words which of themselves do imply the aversion of the wrath of god , when used concerning other sacrifices , when applied to the sacrifice of christ , do only imply the begetting faith in us , or a declaration of pardon . the words which are used to this purpose , are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which are all applied to the blood of christ , and the dispute is , whether they signifie no more but a declaration of pardon , or a means to beget faith in us . the first words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 crellius acknowledgeth do frequently signifie deliverance from guilt and punishment ; but , he saith , they may likewise signifie a declaration of that deliverance , as decreed by god , or a purging from the sins themselves , or from the custom of sinning . so that by crellius his own confession , the sense we contend for is most proper and usual , the other are more remote , and only possible ; why then should we forsake the former sense , which doth most perfectly agree to the nature of a sacrifice , which the other senses have no such relation to , as that hath ? for these being the words made use of in the new testament , to imply the force and efficacy of a sacrifice , why should they not be understood in the same sense which the hebrew words are taken in , when they are applied to the sacrifices under the law ? we are not enquiring into all possible senses of words , but into the most natural and agreeable to the scope of them that use them : and that we shall make it appear to be the same , we plead for in the places in dispute between us ; as , john . . the blood of iesus christ his son , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , purgeth us from all sin , heb. . , . if the blood of bulls , and of goats , and the ashes of an heifer , sprinkling the unclean , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh , how much more shall the blood of christ purge your consciences from dead works , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ? heb. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when he had by himself purged our sins . so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are used with a respect to the blood of christ , heb. . . apocalyp . . . and because remission of sin was looked on as the consequent of expiation by sacrifice under the law ; therefore that is likewise attributed to the blood of christ , matth. . . this is the blood of the new testament which was shed for many , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the remission of sins , eph. . . in whom we have redemption through his blood , the remission of sins , and to the same purpose , coloss. . . and from hence we are said to be justified by his blood , rom. . . and christ is said to be a propitiation through faith in his blood , rom. . . the substance of all that crellius replies to these places is , that those words which do properly signifie the thing it self , may very conveniently be taken only for the declaration of it , when the performance of the thing doth follow by vertue of that declaration : which then happens , when the declaration is made of the thing decreed by another , and that in the name and by the command of him who did decree it . and in this sense , christ by his blood may be said to deliver us from the punishment of our sins , by declaring or testifying to us the will and decree of god for that purpose . but this answer is by no means sufficient , upon these considerations ; . because it doth not reach the proper and natural sense of the words , as crellius himself confesseth ; and yet he assigns no reason at all , why we ought to depart from it , unless the bare possibility of another meaning be sufficient . but how had it been possible for the efficacy of the blood of christ for purging away the guilt of our sins , to have been expressed in clearer and plainer terms than these , which are acknowledged of themselves to signifie as much as we assert ? if the most proper expressions for this purpose , are not of force enough to perswade our adversaries , none else could ever do it : so that it had been impossible for our doctrine to have been delivered in such terms , but they would have found out ways to evade the meaning of them . it seems very strange , that so great an efficacy should not only once or twice , but so frequently be attributed to the blood of christ for expiation of sin , if nothing else were meant by it , but that christ by his death did only declare that god was willing to pardon sin ? if there were danger in understanding the words in their proper sense , why are they so frequently used to this purpose ? why are there no other places of scripture that might help to undeceive us , and tell us plainly , that christ dyed only to declare his father's will ? but what ever other words might signifie , this was the only true meaning of them . but what miserable shifts are these , when men are forced to put off such texts which are confessed to express our doctrine , only by saying that they may be otherwise understood ? which destroys all kind of certainty in words ; which by reason of the various use of them , may be interpreted to so many several senses , that if this liberty be allowed , upon no other pretence , but that another meaning is possible , men will never agree about the intention of any person in speaking . for upon the same reason , if it had been said , that christ declared by his death god's readiness to pardon , it might have been interpreted , that the blood of christ was therefore the declaration of god's readiness to pardon , because it was the consideration upon which god would do it : so that if the words had been as express for them , as they are now against them , according to their way of answering places , they would have been reconcileable to our opinion . . the scripture in these expressions , doth attribute something peculiar to the blood of christ ; but if all that were meant by it were no more , than the declaring god's will to pardon , this could in no sense be said to be peculiar to it . for this was the design of the doctrine of christ , and all his miracles were wrought to confirm the truth of that part of his doctrine , which concerned remission of sins as well as any other : but how absurd would it have been to say , that the miracles of christ purge us from all sin , that through christ healing the sick , raising the dead , &c. we have redemption , even the forgiveness of sins , which are attributed to the blood of christ ? but if no other respect , than as a testimony to the truth of the doctrine of remission of sins , they were equally applicable to one as to the other . besides , if this had been all intended in these expressions , they were the most incongruously applied to the blood of christ ; nothing seeming more repugnant to the doctrine of the remission of sins , which was declared by it , than that very thing by which it was declared , if no more were intended by it : for how unsuitable a way was it to declare the pardon of the guilty persons , by such severities used towards the most innocent ! who could believe , that god should declare his willingness to pardon others , by the death of his own son ; unless that death of his be considered as the meritorious cause for procuring it ? and in that sense we acknowledge , that the death of christ was a declaration of god's will and decree to pardon , but not meerly as it gave testimony to the truth of his doctrine ( for in that sense the blood of the apostles and martyrs might be said to purge us from sin , as well as the blood of christ ) but because it was the consideration upon which god had decreed to pardon . and so as the acceptance of the condition required , or the price paid , may be said to declare or manifest , the intention of a person to release or deliver a captive : so god's acceptance of what christ did suffer for our sakes , may be said to declare his readiness to pardon us upon his account . but then this declaration doth not belong properly to the act of christ in suffering ; but to the act of god in accepting : and it can be no other ways known , than god's acceptance is known ; which was not by the sufferings , but by the resurrection of christ. and therefore the declaring gods will and decree to pardon , doth properly belong to that : and if that had been all which the scripture had meant , by purging of sin by the blood of christ , it had been very incongruously applied to that , but most properly to his resurrection . but these phrases being never attributed to that which most properly might be said to declare the will of god ; and being peculiarly attributed to the death of christ , which cannot be said properly to do it ; nothing can be more plain , than that these expressions ought to be taken in that which is confessed to be their proper sense ; viz. that expiation of sin , which doth belong to the death of christ , as a sacrifice for the sins of the world . viii . but yet socinus and crellius have another subter●uge , ( for therein lies their great art , in seeking rather by any means to escape their enemies , than to overcome them . ) for being sensible , that the main scope and design of the scripture is against them , they seldom , and but very weakly assault : but shew all their subtlety in avoiding by all imaginable arts , the force of what is brought against them . and the scripture being so plain in attributing such great effects to the death of christ , when no other answer will serve turn , then they tell us , that the death of christ is taken metonymically for all the consequents of his death ; viz. his resurrection , exaltation , and the power and authority which he hath at the right hand of his father . but how is it possible to convince those , who by death , can understand life ▪ by sufferings , can mean glory ; and by the shedding of blood , sitting at the right hand of god ? and that the scripture is very far from giving any countenance to these bold interpretations , will appear by these considerations ; . because the effect of expiation of our sins , is attributed to the death of christ , as distinct from his resurrection ; viz. our reconciliation with god , rom. . . for if when we were enemies , we were reconciled to god by the death of h●● son ; much more being reconciled , we shall be saved by his life . to which crellius answers , that the apostle doth not speak of the death of christ alone , or as it is considered distinct from the consequences of it ; but only that our reconciliation was effected by the death of christ intervening . but nothing can be more evident to any one , who considers the design of the apostles discourse , than that he speaks of what was peculiar to the death of christ : for therefore it is said , that christ died for the ungodly . for scarcely for a righteous man will one die : but god commendeth his love towards us , in that while we were yet sinners , christ died for us . much more then being now justified by his blood , we shall be saved through him ; upon which those words follow , for if when we were enemies , we were reconciled to god by the death of his son , &c. the reconciliation here mentioned , is attributed to the death of christ in the same sense , that it is mentioned before ; but there it is not mentioned as a bare condition intervening in order to something farther ; but as the great instance of the love both of god and christ ; of god , in sending his son ; of christ , in laying down his life for sinners , in order to their being justified by his blood . but where is it that st. paul saith , that the death of christ had no other influence on the expiation of our sins , but as a bare condition intervening in order to that power and authority whereby he would expiate sins ? what makes him attribute so much to the death of christ , if all the benefits we enjoy depend upon the consequences of it ; and no otherwise upon that , than meerly as a preparation for it ? what peculiar emphasis were there in christ's dying for sinners , and for the ungodly ; unless his death had a particular relation to the expiation of their sins ? why are men said to be justified by his blood , and not much rather by his glorious resurrection , if the blood of christ be only considered as antecedent to the other ? and that would have been the great demonstration of the love of god which had the most immediate influence upon our advantage : which could not have been the death in this sense , but the life and glory of christ. but nothing can be more absurd than what crellius would have to be the meaning of this place , viz. that the apostle doth not speak of the proper force of the death of christ distinct from his life ; but that two things are opposed to each other for the effecting of one of which the death of christ did intervene , but it should not intervene for the other ; viz. it did intervene for our reconciliation , but it should not for our life . for did not the death of christ equally intervene for our life as for our reconciliation ? was not our eternal deliverance the great thing designed by christ , and our reconciliation in order to that end ? what opposition then can be imagined , that it should be necessary for the death of christ to intervene in order to the one than in order to the other ? but he means , that the death of christ should not intervene any more ; what need that , when it is acknowledged by themselves , that christ died only for this end before , that he might have power to bestow eternal life on them that obey him ? but the main force of the apostles argument lies in the comparison between the death of christ having respect to us as enemies in order to reconciliation , and the life of christ to us considered as reconciled ; so that if he had so much kindness for enemies , to die for their reconciliation , we may much more presume that he now living in heaven will accomplish the end of that reconciliation , in the eternal salvation of them that obey him . by which it is apparent that he speaks of the death of christ , in a notion proper to it self , having influence upon our reconciliation ; and doth not consider it metonymically as comprehending in it , the consequents of it . ix . . because the expiation of sins is attributed to christ antecedently to the great consequents of his death , viz. his sitting at the right hand of god , heb. . . when he had by himself purged our sins , sate down on the right hand of his majesty on high , heb. . . but by his own blood he entred in once into the holy place , having obtained eternal redemption for us . to these places crellius gives a double answer . . that indefinite particles ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) being joyned with verbs of the preterperfect tense do not always require that the action expressed by them , should precede that which is designed in the verbs to which they are joyned ; but they have sometimes the force of particles of the present or imperfect tense ; which sometimes happens in particles of the preterperfect tense , as matth. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and several other instances produced by him : according to which manner of interpretation the sense he puts upon those words , heb. . . is christ by the shedding of his blood entred into the holy of holies , and in so doing he found eternal redemption , or the expiation of sins . but not to dispute with crellius concerning the importance of the aorist being joyned with a verb of the preterperfect tense , which in all reason and common acceptation doth imply the action past by him who writes the words antecedent to his writing of it , as is plain in the instances produced by crellius ; but according to his sense of christ's expiation of sin , it was yet to come after christ's entrance into heaven , and so it should have been more properly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 than 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; not i say to insist upon that , the apostle manifests , that he had a respect to the death of christ in the obtaining this eternal redemption , by his following discourse : for v. . he compares the blood of christ in point of efficacy for expiation of sin , with the blood of the legal sacrifices : whereas if the expiation meant by him had been found by christ's oblation of himself in heaven , he would have compared christ's entrance into heaven in order to it , with the entrance of the high-priest into the holy of holies , and his argument had run thus . for if the high-priest under the law did expiate sins by entring into the holy of holies ; how much more shall the son of god entring into heaven expiate the sins of mankind ? but we see the apostle had no sooner mention'd the redemption obtained for us ; but he presently speaks of the efficacy of the blood of christ in order to it , and as plainly asserts the same , v. . and for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament , that by means of death , for the redemption of the transgressions which were under the first testament , they which were called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance . why doth the apostle here speak of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the expiation of sins by the means of death ; if he had so lately asserted before that the redemption or expiation was found not by his death , but by his entrance into heaven ? and withal the apostle here doth not speak of such a kind of expiation as wholly respects the future , but of sins that were under the first testament , not barely such as could not be expiated by vertue of it , but such as were committed during the time of it , although the levitical law allowed no expiation for them . and to confirm this sense , the apostle doth not go on to prove the necessity of christ's entrance into heaven ; but of his dying , v. , , . but granting that he doth allude to the high priest's entring into the holy of holies , yet that was but the representation of a sacrifice already offer'd , and he could not be said to find expiation by his entrance ; but that was already found by the blood of the sacrifice , and his entrance was only to accomplish the end for which the blood was offer'd up in sacrifice . and the benefit which came to men is attributed to the sacrifice , and not to the sprinkling of blood before the mercy-seat : and whatever effect was consequent upon his entrance into the sanctuary , was by vertue of the blood which he carried in with him , and was before shed at the altar . neither can it with any reason be said , that if the redemption were obtained by the blood of christ , there could be no need of his entrance into heaven ; since we do not make the priesthood of christ to expire at his death ; but that he is in heaven a merciful high-priest in negotiating the affairs of his people with god , and there ever lives to make intercession for them . x. crellius answers , that granting the aorist being put before the verb , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should imply such an action which was antecedent to christ's sitting at the right hand of god , yet it is not there said , that the expiation of sins was made before christ's entrance into heaven ; for those , saith he , are to be considered as two different things ; for a prince first enters into his palace , before he sits upon his throne . and therefore , saith he , christ may be said to have made expiation of sins , before he sate down at the right hand of his father , not that it was done by his death , but by his entrance into heaven , and offering himself to god there , by which means he obtained his sitting on the right hand of the majesty on high , and thereby the full power of remission of sins , and giving eternal life . to which i answer , . that the scripture never makes such a distinction between christ's entrance into heaven , and sitting at the right hand of god ; which latter implying no more but the glorious state of christ in heaven , his entrance into heaven doth imply it : for therefore god exalted him to be a prince and a saviour : and the reason of the power and authority given him in heaven is no where attributed to his entrance into it as the means of it ; but our saviour before that tells us , that all power and authority was committed to him ; and his very entrance into heaven was a part of his glory ; and given him in consideration of his sufferings ; as the apostle plainly asserts ; and he became obedient to death , even the death of the cross , wherefore god hath highly exalted him , &c. there can be then no imaginable reason to make the entrance of christ into heaven , and presenting himself to god there , a condition or means of obtaining that power and authority which is implyed in his sitting at the right hand of god. . supposing , we should look on these as distinct , there is as little reason to attribute the expiation of sin to his entrance , considered as distinct from the other : for the expiation of sins in heaven being by crellius himself confessed to be by the exercise of christ's power , and this being only the means to that power , how could christ expiate sins by that power which he had not ? but of this i have spoken before , and shewed that in no sense allowed by themselves the expiation of sins can be attributed to the entrance of christ into heaven as distinct from his sitting at the right hand of god. thus much may suffice to prove , that those effects of an expiatory sacrifice , which do respect the sins committed , do properly agree to the death of christ. xi . i now come to that which respects the person , considered as obnoxious to the wrath of god by reason of his sins ; and so the effect of an expiatory sacrifice is atonement and reconciliation . by the wrath of god , i mean , the reason which god hath from the holiness and justice of his nature , to punish sin in those who commit it : by the means of atonement and reconciliation , i mean , that in consideration of which , god is willing to release the sinner from the obligation to punishment he lies under by the law of god , and to receive him into favour upon the terms which are declared by the doctrine of christ. and that the death of christ was such a means of atonement and reconciliation for us , i shall prove by those places of scripture which speak of it . but crellius would seem to acknowledge , that if grotius seem to contend for no more , than that christ did avert that wrath of god which men had deserved by their sins , they would willingly yield him all that he pleads for : but then he adds , that this deliverance from the wrath to come , is not by the death , but by the power of christ. so that the question is , whether the death of christ were the means of atonement and reconciliation between god and us ? and yet crellius would seem willing to yield too , that the death of christ may be said to avert the wrath of god from us , as it was a condition in order to it ; for in that sence it had no more influence upon it than his birth had : but we have already seen , that the scripture attributes much more to the death and blood of christ , in order to the expiation of sin . we do not deny , that the death of christ may be called a condition , as the performance of any thing in order to an end , may be called the condition upon which that thing is to be obtained ; but we say , that it is not a bare condition , but such a one as implies a consideration , upon which the thing is obtained , being such as answers the end of him that grants it : by which means it doth propitiate or atone him , who had before just reason to punish , but is now willing to forgive and be reconciled to them , who have so highly offended him . and in this sense we assert , that christ is said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a propitiation for our sins , john . . — . . which we take in the same sense that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is taken for the sin-offering for atonement , ezek. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they shall offer a sin-offering ; for so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there signifies and in the same sense 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is taken , ezek. . . and the ram for atonement is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , numb . . . and thence the high-priest when he made an atonement , is said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , maccab. . . which is of the greater consequence to us , because crellius would not have the sense either of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to be taken from the common use of the word in the greek tongue ; but from that which some call the hellenistical use of it ; viz. that which is used in the greek of the new testament , out of the lxx . and the apocryphal greek ; in both which we have found the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in a sense fully correspondent to what we plead for . but he yet urges , and takes a great deal of pains to prove , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do not always signifie to be appeased by another , but sometimes signifies to be propitious and merciful in pardoning ; and sometimes to expiate , and then signifies the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : which if it be granted , proves nothing against us , having already proved , that those words do signifie the aversion of the wrath of god by a sacrifice , and that there is no reason to recede from that signification , when they are applied to the blood of christ. and we do not contend , that when the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is applied to him that doth forgive , it doth imply appeasing ; but the effect of it , which is pardoning ; but that which we assert , is , that when it is applied to a third person , or a thing made use of in order to forgiveness , then we say it signifies the propitiating him that was justly displeased : so as by what was done or suffered for that end , he is willing to pardon what he had just reason to punish . so moses is said , to make atonement for the people by his prayers , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , exod. . . and we may see verse . how much god was displeased before . and moses besought the lord his god , and said , why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people ? and verse . turn from thy fierce wrath , and repent of this evil against thy people , and then it is said , verse . the lord was atoned for the evil which he thought to do unto his people . i would therefore willingly know , why moses might not here properly be said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as it is said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and therefore since it is so very often said in the levitical law , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the accusative case scarce ever put but in two cases ; ( viz. when these words are applied to inanimate things , as the altar , &c. or when to god himself , implying forgiveness ) what reason can we assign more probable for this different construction , than that when 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used , the verb hath a respect to the offended party as the accusative understood ? as christ is said in the places mentioned to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which ought in reason to be understood as those words after moses his intercession , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but crellius asks , why then do we never read once concerning the priest , that he did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but we read that he did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and god is said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . to this i answer , . that the reason why the person propitiated , is not expressed , is , because it was so much taken for granted , that the whole institution of sacrifices did immediately respect god , and therefore there was no danger of mistaking , concerning the person who was to be atoned . . i wonder crellius can himself produce no instance where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used with respect to the sacrifices , and the persons whose offences are remitted by the atonement ; but where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath a relation to that , it is still joyned with a preposition relating either to the person or to the offences ; if no more were understood when it is so used , than when god himself is said to do it , why is not the phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as well said of the priest , as it is of god ? from whence grotius his sense of heb. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is far more agreeable to the use of the phrase in the old testament , than that which crellius would put upon it . therefore since the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is attributed to christ , we ought to take it in the sense proper to a propitiatory sacrifice : so it is said by moses , where god is left out , but is necessarily understood , after the people had provoked god by their idolatry ; ye have sinned a great sin : and now i will go up unto the lord , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that i may make an atonement for your sin : what way could moses be said to make this atonement , but by propitiating god ; yet his name is not there expressed , but necessarily understood . so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used in the most proper sense for appeasing the anger of a person , gen. . . and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , sam. . . which places have been already insisted on , in the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and that those places wherein christ is said to be a propitiation for our sins , are capable of no other sense , will appear from the consideration of christ , as a middle person between god and us ; and therefore his being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , cannot be parallel with that phrase , where god himself is said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for christ is here considered as interposing between god and us , as moses and the priests under the law did between god and the people , in order to the averting his wrath from them . and when one doth thus interpose in order to the atonement of the offended party , something is always supposed to be done or suffered by him , as the means of that atonement . as iacob supposed the present he made to his brother would propitiate him ; and david appeased the gibeonites by the death of saul's sons , both which are said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so the shedding of the blood of sacrifices before and under the law , was the means of atoning god for the sins they committed . what reason can there be then why so receiv'd a sense of atonement , both among the iews , and all other nations at that time when these words were written , must be forsaken ; and any other sense be embraced , which neither agrees with the propriety of the expression , nor with so many other places of scripture , which make the blood of christ to be a sacrifice for the expiation of sin ? xii . neither is it only our atonement , but our reconciliation is attributed to christ too , with a respect to his death and sufferings . as in the place before insisted on . for if when we were enemies , we were reconciled to god by the death of his son ; and more largely in the second epistle to the corinthians . and all things are of god , who hath reconciled us to himself by iesus christ , and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation : to wit , that god was in christ reconciling the world unto himself , not imputing their trespasses unto them , and hath committed to us the word of reconciliation . for he hath made him to be sin for us who knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him . and to the ephesians , and that he might reconcile both unto god in one body by his cross , having slain the enmity thereby . to the same purpose to the colossians , and having made peace through the blood of his cross , by him to reconcile all things to himself , by him i say whether they be things in heaven or in earth ; and you that were sometimes alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works , yet now hath he reconciled , in the body of his flesh through death . two things the substance of crellius his answer may be reduced to concerning these places . . that it is no where said that god was reconciled to us , but that we are reconciled to god , and therefore this reconciliation doth not imply any averting of the anger of god. . that none of these places do assert any reconciliation with god antecedent to our conversion , and so that the reconciliation mention'd implies only the laying aside our enmity to god by our sins . i begin with the first of these , concerning which we are to consider not barely the phrases used in scripture , but what the nature of the thing implies ; as to which a difference being supposed between god and man on the account of sin , no reconciliation can be imagined but what is mutual . for did man only fall out with god , and had not god just reason to be displeased with men for their apostasie from him ? if not , what made h●m so severely punish the first sin that ever was committed by man ? what made him punish the old world for their impieties by a deluge ? what made him leave such monuments of his anger against the sins of the world in succeeding ages ? what made him add such severe sanctions to the laws he made to the people of the iews ? what made the most upright among them so vehemently to deprecate his wrath and displeasure upon the sense of their sins ? what makes him declare not only his hatred of the sins of men , but of the persons of those who commit them ; so far as to express the greatest abhorrency of them ? nay , what makes our adversaries themselves to say , that impiety is in its own nature hateful to god , and stirs him up to anger against all who commit it ? what means , i say , all this , if god be not angry with men on the account of sin ? well then ; supposing god to be averse from men by reason of their sins , shall this displeasure always continue or not ? if it always continues , men must certainly suffer the desert of their sins ; if it doth not always continue , then god may be said to be reconciled in the same sense that an offended party is capable of being reconciled to him who hath provoked him . now there are two ways whereby a party justly offended may be said to be reconciled to him that hath offended him . first , when he is not only willing to admit of terms of agreement , but doth declare his acceptance of the mediation of a third person , and that he is so well satisfied with what he hath done in order to it , that he appoints this to be published to the world to assure the offender , that if the breach continues , the fault wholly lies upon himself . the second is , when the offender doth accept of the terms of agreement offered , and submits himself to him whom he hath provoked , and is upon that received into favour . and these two we assert must necessarily be distinguished in the reconciliation between god and us . for upon the death and sufferings of christ , god declares to the world he is so well satisfied with what christ hath done and suffered in order to the reconciliation between himself and us , that he now publishes remission of sins to the world upon those terms which the mediator hath declared by his own doctrine , and the apostles he sent to preach it : but because remission of sins doth not immediately follow upon the death of christ , without supposition of any act on our part , therefore the state of favour doth commence from the performance of the conditions which are required from us . so that upon the death of christ god declaring his acceptance of christ's mediation , and that the obstacle did not lie upon his part ; therefore those messengers who were sent abroad into the world to perswade men to accept of these terms of agreeement , do insist most upon that which was the remaining obstacle , viz. the sins of mankind , that men by laying aside them , would be now reconciled to god , since there was nothing to hinder this reconciliation , their obstinacy in sin excepted . which may be a very reasonable account why we read more frequently in the writings of the apostles , of mens duty in being reconciled to god ; the other being supposed by them as the foundation of their preaching to the world , and is insisted on by them upon that account , as is clear in that place to the corinthians , that god was in christ reconciling the world to himself , not imputing unto men their trespasses , and hath committed to us the word of reconciliation ; and therefore adds , now then we are ambassadors for christ , as though god did beseech you by us , we pray you in christ's stead be ye reconciled to god : and least these words should seem dubious , he declares that the reconciliation in christ was distinct from that reconciliation he perswades them to ; for the reconciliation in christ he supposeth past , v. . all things are of god , who hath reconciled us to himself by iesus christ , and v. . he shews us how this reconciliation was wrought : for he hath made him to be sin for us who knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him . crellius here finds it necessary to acknowledge a twofold reconciliation , but hopes to escape the force of this place by a rare distinction of the reconciliation as preached by christ , and by his apostles ; and so god's having reconciled the world to himself by iesus christ is nothing else but christ's preaching the gospel himself , who afterwards committed that office to his apostles . but if such shifts as these will serve to baffle mens understandings , both they were made , and the scripture were written to very little purpose ; for if this had been all the apostle had meant , that christ preached the same doctrine of reconciliation before them , what mighty matter had this been to have solemnly told the world , that christ's apostles preached no other doctrine , but what their master had preached before ? especially if no more were meant by it , but that men should leave their sins , and be reconciled to god. but besides , why is the ministry of reconciliation , then attributed only to the apostles , and not to christ , which ought in the first place to have been given to him , since the apostles did only receive it from him ? why is that ministry of reconciliation said to be , viz. that god was in christ reconciling the world to himself ? was this all the subject of the apostles preaching , to tell the world , that christ perswaded men to leave off their sins ? how comes god to reconcile the world to himself by the preaching of christ , since christ himself saith , he was not sent to preach to the world ; but to the lost sheep of the house of israel ? was the world reconciled to god by the preaching of christ , before they had ever heard of him ? why is god said not to impute to men their trespasses by the preaching of christ , rather than his apostles ; if the not imputing were no more than declaring god's readiness to pardon ; which was equally done by the apostles as by christ himself ? lastly , what force or dependance is there in the last words , for he made him to be sin for us , who knew no sin , &c. if all he had been speaking of before had only related to christ's preaching ? how was he made sin more than the apostles , if he were only treated as a sinner upon the account of the same doctrine which they preached equally with him ? and might not men be said to be made the righteousness of god in the apostles , as well as in christ , if no more be meant , but being perswaded to be righteous , by the doctrine delivered to them ? in the two latter places , eph. . . coloss. . . &c. it is plain , that a twofold reconciliation is likewise mentioned , the one of the iews and gentiles to one another , the other of both of them to god. for nothing can be more ridiculous than the exposition of socinus , who would have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not to be joyned with the verb , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but to stand by it self , and to signifie that this reconciliation of the iews and gentiles did tend to the glory of god. and crellius , who stands out at nothing , hopes to bring off socinus here too ; by saying , that it is very common , for the end to which a thing was appointed to be expressed by a dative case following the verb ; but he might have spared his pains in proving a thing no one questions ; the shorter answer had been to have produced one place where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ever signifies any thing but to be reconciled to god as the offended party ; or where-ever the dative of the person following the verb importing reconciliation , did signifie any thing else but the party with whom the reconcil●ation was to be made . as for that obj●ction concerning things in heaven being reconciled : that phrase doth not import such a reconciliation of the angels as of m●n , ●u● that men and angels upon the reconciliation of men to god , become one body under christ , and are gathered together in him , as the apostle expresseth it , eph. . . xiii . . having thus far proved , that the effects of an expiatory sacrifice do belong to the death of christ , nothing now remains but an answer to be made to two objections , which are commonly insisted on by our adversaries . the first is , that god was reconciled before he sent his son , and therefore christ could not die to reconcile god to us . the second is , that the doctrine of satisfaction asserted by us , is inconsistent with the freeness of god's grace in the remission of sins : both which will admit of an easie solution upon the principles of the foregoing discourse . to the first i answer , that we assert nothing inconsistent with that love of god , which was discovered in sending his son into the world ; we do not say , that god hated mankind so mu●h on the account of sin , that it was impossible he should ever admit of any terms of reconciliation with them , which is the only thing inconsistent with the greatness of god's love , in sending christ into the world ; but we adore and magnifie the infiniteness and unexpressible greatness of his love , that nothwithstanding all the contempt of the former kindness and mercies of heaven , he should be pleased to send his own son to die for sinners , that they might be reconciled to him . and herein was the great love of god manifested , that while we were enemies and sinners , christ died for us , and that for this end , that we might be reconciled to god by his death . and therefore surely , not in the state of favour or reconciliation with god then . but it were worth the while , to understand what it is our adversaries mean , when they say , god was reconciled when he sent his son , and therefore he could not die to reconcile god to us . either they mean , that god had decreed to be reconciled upon the sending his son , or that he was actually reconciled when he sent him : if he only decreed to be reconciled , that was not at all inconsistent with christ's dying to reconcile god and us in pursuance of that decree : if they mean , he was actually reconciled , then there was no need for christ to die to reconcile god and us ; but withal , actual reconciliation implies pardon of sin ; and if sin were actually pardoned before christ came , there could be no need of his coming at all , and sins would have been pardoned before committed ; if they were not pardoned , notwithstanding that love of god , then it can imply no more , but that god was willing to be reconciled . if therefore the not-remission of sins were consistent with that love of god , by which he sent christ into the world , then notwithstanding that he was yet capable of being reconciled by his death . so that our adversaries are bound to reconcile that love of god , with not presently pardoning the sins of the world , as we are to reconcile it with the ends of the death of christ , which are asserted by us . xiv . to the other obejction , concerning the inconsistency of the freeness of god's grace with the doctrine of satisfaction . i answer , either god's grace is so free as to exclude all conditions , or not : if it be so free , as to exclude all conditions , then the highest antinomianism is the tru●st doctrine ; for that is the highest degree of the freeness of grace , which admits of no conditions at all . if our adversaries say , that the freeness of grace is consistent with conditions required on our part , why shall it not admit of conditions on god's part ? especially , when the condition required , tends so highly to the end of god's governing the world , in the manifestation of his hatred against sin , and the vindication of the honour of his laws by the sufferings of the son of god in our stead , as an expiatory sacrifice for our sins . there are two things to be considered in sin , the dishonour done to god , by the breach of his laws , and the injury men do to thems●lves by it ; now remission of sins , that respects the injury which men bring upon themselves by it ; and that is free , when the penalty is wholly forgiven , as we assert it is by the gospel to all penitent sinners : but shall not god be free to vindicate his own honour , and to declare his righteousness to the world , while he is the iustifier of them that believe ? shall men in case of defamation , be bound to vindicate themselves , though they freely forgive the authors of the slander , by our adversaries own doctrine ? and must it be repugnant to god's grace , to admit of a propitiatory sacrifice , that the world may understand , that it is no such easie thing to obtain pardon of sin committed against god ; but that as often as they consider the bitter sufferings of christ , in order to the obtaining the forgiveness of our sins , that should be the greatest argument to disswade them from the practice of them ? but why should it be more inconsistent with the sacrifice of christ , for god freely to pardon sin , than it was ever presumed to be in all the sacrifices of either iews or gentiles ? who all supposed sacrifices necessary in order to atonement ; and yet thought themselves obliged to the goodness of god in the remission of their sins ? nay we find that god himself , in the case of abimelech , appointed abraham to pray for him , in order to his pardon ; and will any one say , this was a derogation to the grace of god in his pardon ? or to the pardon of iob's friends , because iob was appointed to sacrifice for them ? or to the pardon of the israelites , because god out of kindness to them , directed them by the prophets , and appointed the means in order to it ? but although god appointed our high-priest for us , and out of his great love sent him into the world , yet his sacrifice was not what was given him , but what he freely underwent himself ; he gave us christ , but christ offered up himself a full , perfect and sufficient sacrifice , oblation and satisfaction for the sins of the world . thus , sir , i have now given you a larger account of what i then more briefly discoursed of , concerning the true reason of the sufferings of christ ; and heartily wishing you a right understanding in all things , and requesting from you an impartial consideration of what i have written , i am , sir , your , &c. e. s. ian. . ● . the mysteries of the christian faith asserted and vindicated : in a sermon preached at s. laurence-jewry in london , april the th . . by the right reverend father in god , edward lord bishop of worcester . london , printed by i. h. for henry mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , . a sermon preached at s. laurence-jury , april the th . . tim . i. . this is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation , that christ iesus came into the world to save sinners , of whom i am chief . if these words were to be understood without any restriction or limitation that christ iesus came into the world to save sinners , they would overthrow the great design of the gospel , and make its excellent precepts useless and ineffectual . for , to what purpose should men be put upon the severe practice of repentance , mortification and a continued course of a holy life , if the meer being sinners did sufficiently qualifie them for salvation ? this indeed would be thought a doctrine worthy of all acceptation by the greatest sinners ; but it could not be a faithful saying , being not agreeable either to the nature of god , or revelation of his will by christ iesus . but s. paul speaks of such sinners as himself had been , i. e. such as had been great sianers , but had truly and sincerely repented . of whom i am chief . what then ? must we look on him as the standard and measure of such sinners whom christ iesus came to save ? what will then become of all those who have been sinners of a higher rank than ever he was ? it 's true in the verses before the text , he sets out his sins , as a humble penitent is wont to do , with the worst colours and deepest aggravations , who was before a blasphemer and a persecutor , and injurious ; but yet he adds , that he obtained mercy because he did it ignorantly , in unbelief . how then is s. paul the chief of sinners ? are sins of ignorance and mistake the greatest of sins , for which christ died ? is there no expiation for any other by iesus christ ? what will become then of all such who sin against knowledge and conscience , and not in ignorance and vnbelief ? can none of these hope for mercy by christ iesus , although they do truly repent ? but the blood of christ is said elsewhere to cleanse us from all sin ; not , while we continue in them , but if we repent and forsake them . and iesus christ is said to be a propitiation for our sins ; and not for ours only , but for the sins of the whole world. and therefore this expression of s. paul notes his great humility and deep sense of his own sins ; but doth not exclude others from the hopes of pardon whose sins have other aggravations than his had . for , if we leave out the last words as peculiar to his case , yet the other contain in them a true proposition and of the greatest importance to mankind ; this is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation , that christ iesus came into the world to save sinners . this , you may say , is a matter out of all doubt among all such who hope for salvation by christ iesus ; for all are agreed , that one way or other we are to be saved by him . but there is great difficulty as to the way of saving sinners by christ iesus ; whether by the doctrine and example of the man christ iesus , by the power he attained through his sufferings ; or , by the eternal son of god's assuming our nature and suffering in our stead in order to the reconciling god to us and making a propitiation for our sins . these are two very different hypotheses or notions of christ's coming to save sinners ; and the former seems more easie to be understood and believed ; and the other seems to have insuperable difficulties in point of reason ; and to run our religion into mysteries , which expose our faith and make christianity appear contemptible to men of sense and understanding . is it not therefore much better to embrace such a scheme of it , as will have the least objection against it , that so men of reason may not be tempted to infidelity , and men of superstition may not under the colour of mysteries bring in the most absurd and unreasonable doctrines ? these are plausible insinuations , and would be apt to prevail on considering mens minds , if they were to form and make a religion that might be most accommodated to the genius and humour of the age they live in . and truly no men ( by their own authority ) can pretend to a right to impose on others any mysteries of faith , or any such things which are above their capacity to understand . but that is not our case ; for we all profess to believe and receive christianity as a divine revelation ; and god ( we say ) may require from us the belief of what we may not be able to comprehend , especially if it relates to himself , or such things which are consequent upon the union of the divine and human nature . therefore our business is to consider , whether any such things be contained in that revelation which we all own ; and if they be , we are bound to believe them , although we are not able to comprehend them . now here are two remarkable characters in these words , by which we may examin these different hypotheses concerning the way of salvation by iesus christ. i. it is a faithfull saying , and therefore must be contained in that revelation which god hath made concerning our salvation by christ. ii. it is worthy of all acceptation ; i. e. most useful and beneficial to mankind . now by these two i shall procceed in the examination of them . i. which is most agreeable to the revealed will of god. ii. which doth offer fairest for the benefit and advantage of mankind . i. which is most agreeable to the revealed will of god. for that we are sure is the most faithfull saying ; since men of wit and reason may deceive us , but god cannot . when the apostles first preached this doctrine to the world , they were not bound to believe what they affirmed to be a faithfull saying till they gave sufficient evidence of their authority from god , by the wonderfull assistance of the holy ghost . but now this faithfull saying is contained in the books of the new testament , by which we are to judge of the truth of all christian doctrines . and when two different senses of places of scripture are offer'd , we are to consider , which is most reasonable to be preferr'd . and herein we are allow'd to exercise our reason as much as we please ; and the more we do so , the sooner we shall come to satisfaction in this matter . now according to reason we may judge that sense to be preferr'd , ( . ) which is most plain and easie and agreeable to the most receiv'd sense of words ; not that which is forced and intricate , or which puts improper and metaphorical senses upon words which are commonly taken in other senses ; especially when it is no sacramental thing , which in its own nature is figurative . ( . ) that which suits most with the scope and design not only of the particular places , but of the whole new testament ; which is , to magnifie god and to depress man ? to set forth , the infinite love and condescension of god in giving his son to be a propitiation for our sins ; to set up the worship of one true god in opposition to creatures ; to represent and declare the mighty advantages mankind receive by the sufferings of christ iesus . ( . ) that which hath been generally receiv'd in the christian church to be the sense of those places . for , we are certain , this was always look'd on as a matter of great concernment to all christians ; and they had as great capacity of understanding the sense of the apostles : and the primitive church had greater helps for knowing it than others at so much greater distance . and therefore the sense is not to be taken from modern inventions , or criticisms , or pretences to revelation ; but that which was at first deliver'd to the christian church and hath been since received and embraced by it in the several ages ; and hath been most strenuously asserted , when it hath met with opposition , as founded on scripture and the general consent of the christian church . ( . ) that which best agrees with the characters of those persons from whom we recive the christian faith ; and those are christ iesus and his holy apostles . for , if their authority be lost , our religion is gone ; and their authority depends upon their sincerity and faithfulness , and care to inform the world aright in matters of so great importance . ( . ) i begin with the character which the apostles give of christ iesus himself ; which is , that he was a person of the greatest humility and condescension , that he did not assume to himself that which he might justly have done . for let the words of s. paul be understood either as to the nature , or dignity of christ , it is certain that they must imply thus much , that when christ iesus was here on earth , he was not of a vain assuming humour , that he did not boast of himself , nor magnifie his own greatness , but was contented to be look'd on as other men ; although he had at that time far greater and diviner excellency in him than the world would believe . less than this , cannot be made of those words of the apostle , who being in the form of god , he thought it not robbery to be equal with god , but made himself of no reputation , and took upon him the form of a servant . now this being the character given of him , let us consider what he doth affirm concerning himself . for although he was far from drawing the people after him , by setting forth his own perfections ; yet upon just occasions , when the iews contested with him , he did assert such things , which must savour of vanity and ostentation , or else must imply that he was the eternal son of god. for , all mankind are agreed that the highest degree of ambition lies in affecting divine honour , or for a meer man to be thought a god. how severely did god punish herod for being pleased with the peoples folly in crying out , the voice of god and not of man ? and therefore he could never have born with such positive assertions and such repeated defences of his being the son of god in such a manner as implied his being so from eternity . this in his disputes with the iews he affirms several times , that he came down from heaven , not in a metaphorical but in a proper sense , as appears by those words , what and if ye shall see the son of man ascend up where he was before ? in another conference he asserted , that he was before abraham . which the iews so literally understood , that without a metaphor they went about to stone him ; little imagining that by abraham the calling of the gentiles was to be understood . but above all , is that expression which he used to the iews at another conference , i and my father are one ; which they understood in such a manner that immediately they took up stones to have stoned him . what means all this rage of the iews against him ? what ? for saying that he had vnity of consent with his father ? no certainly . but the iews misunderstood him . let us suppose it ; would not our saviour have immediately explained himself to prevent so dangerous a misconstruction ? but he asked them , what it was they stoned him for ? they answer him directly and plainly , because that thou being a man makest thy self god. this was home to the purpose . and here was the time for him to have denied it , if it had not been so . but doth he deny it ? doth he say , it would be blasphemy in him to own it ? no ; but he goes about to defend it ; and proves it to be no blasphemy for him to say that he was the son of god ; i. e. so as to be god , as the iews understood it . can we imagine that a meer man knowing himself to be such , should assume this to himself ; and yet god to bear witness to him not only by miracles but by a voice from heaven , wherein he was called his beloved son in whom he was well pleased ? could god be pleased with a mortal , finite , despicable creature , as the iews thought him , that assumed to himself to be god , and maintained and defended it among his own people , in a solemn conference at a very publick place , in one of the portico's of the temple ? and this he persisted in to the last . for , when the high priest adjured him by the living god to tell , whether he were the christ the son of god , ( for he , no doubt , had heard of the result of this conference in solomon's porch ) iesus said unto him , thou hast said , s. mark , more expresly , iesus said , i am . and this was the blasphemy , for which they put him to death ; as appears by the evangelists . so that this ought to be a dispute only between iews and christians ; since it was the very point , for which they condemned him to death . and in his last most divine prayer just before his suffering , he owns the glory which he had with the father before the world had a being . and now , o father , glorifie thou me with the glory which i had with thee , before the world was . was this nothing but the glory which god had designed to give him ? this is so far from being peculiar to christ , that it is common to all whom god designs to glorifie ; and takes away the distinction between the decree and the execution of it . ( . ) as to the apostles , the reason we believe their testimony is , that they were men of great sincerity and plainness , and of great zeal for the honour and glory of god. and according to this character , let us examine what they say concerning christ iesus . he that was most conversant with him , and beloved by him , and lived to see his divinity contested by some , and denied by others , is most ample in setting it forth in his admirable , sublime , and divine introduction to his gospel . which all the wit of mankind can never make tolerable sense of , if they deny christ's being the eternal son of god ; and it is he , that hath preserved those conferences with the iews , wherein he asserts his own divinity . s. paul was a stranger to him while he lived ; but at the same time when he was so zealous to perswade the gentiles to the worship of god and not of creatures , he calls him god over all , blessed for evermore . and when he saith , that the eternal power and godhead are known by the creation of the world , he attributes the creation of all things to christ , applying to him those words of the psalmist , thou lord in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth and the heaven , the work of thy hands . which cannot be understood of any metaphorical creation . and after the strictest examination of copies , those will be found the best , which have that reading on which our translation is grounded . and without controversie great is the mystery of godliness , god w●s manifest in the flesh. so that god's being manifest in the flesh is made a great part of the mystery of christianity . but here arises a difficulty , which deserves to be considered ; i. e. if there were nothing in the christian doctrine , but the way of saving sinners by the doctrine and example of christ , there would be little objection to be made to it ; since the obtaining eternal life is certainly the best thing can be proposed to mankind , and the precepts of christ are divine and spiritual , plain and easie to be understood , and agreeable to the reason of mankind ; but many other things are imposed on men as necessary to be believed concerning christ iesus , as to his divinity , incarnation , and the hypostatical vnion of both natures , which perplex and confound our understandings ; and yet these things are not only deliver●d as mysteries of the christian faith ; but the belief of them is required as necessary to the salvation of sinners ; whereas , if they are revealed they are no longer mysteries ; and if they are not revealed , how come they to be made articles of faith ? the scripture knows of no other mysteries of faith but such as were hidden before the revelation of them , but since they are revealed they are plain and open to all mens capacities ; and therefore it is a great injury to the plainness and simplicity of the gospel to impose such incomprehensible mysteries , as necessary articles of faith ; and it is abusing the credulity of mankind , to make such things necessary to be believed , which are impossible to be understood . but those who have ever loved to deceive and abuse the rest of the world , have been always fond of the name of mysteries ; and therefore all such things are to be suspected , which come under that name . for , all such points which will not bear examination , must be wrapt up and reverenced under the name of mysteries , that is , of things to be swallow'd without being understood . but the scripture never calls that a mystery which is incomprehensible in it self , though never so much revealed . this is the main force of the objection , which i shall endeavour to remove by shewing , ( . ) that god may justly require from us in general , the belief of what we cannot comprehend . ( . ) that which way soever the way of salvation by christ be explained , there will be something of that nature found in it ; and that those who reject the mysteries of faith run into greater difficulties than those who assert them . ( . ) that no more is required as a necessary article of faith than what is plainly and clearly revealed . ( . ) that god may justly require from us in general , the belief of what we cannot comprehend . it is to very little purpose to enquire whether the word mystery in scripture be applied to such particular doctrines , whose substance is revealed , but the manner of them is incomprehensible by us ; for why may not we make use of such a word whereby to express things truely revealed , but above our comprehension ? we are certain the word mystery is used for things far less difficult and abstruse ; and why may it not then be fitly applied to such matters , which are founded on divine revelation , but yet are too deep for us to go to the bottom of them ? are there not mysteries in arts , mysteries in nature , mysteries in providence ? and what absurdity is there to call those mysteries , which in some measure are known , but in much greater unknown to us ? although therefore in the language of scripture it be granted , that the word mystery is most frequently applied , to things before hidden , but now revealed , yet there is no incongruity in calling that a mystery , which being revealed , hath yet something in it which our understandings cannot reach to . but it is meer cavilling to insist on a word , if the thing it self be granted . the chief thing therefore to be done is , to shew that god may require from us the belief of such things which are incomprehensible by us . for , god may require any thing from us , which it is reasonable for us to do ; if it be then reasonable for us to give assent where the manner of what god hath revealed is not comprehended , then god may certainly require it from us . hath not god revealed to us , that in six days he made heaven and earth and all that is therein ? but is it not reasonable for us to believe this , unless we are able to comprehend the manner of god's production of things ? here we have something revealed and that plainly enough , viz. that god created all things , and yet , here is a mystery remaining as to the manner of doing it . hath not god plainly revealed that there shall be a resurrection of the dead ? and must we think it unreasonable to believe it , till we are able to comprehend all the changes of the particles of matter from the creation to the general resurrection ? but it is said that there is no contradiction in this , but there is in the mystery of the trinity and incarnation . it is strange boldness in men to talk thus of monstrous contradictions in things above their reach . the atheists may as well say , infinite power is a monstrous contradiction ; and god●s immensity and his other unsearchable perfections are monstrous paradoxes and contradictions . will men never learn to distinguish between numbers and the nature of things ? for three to be one is a contradiction in numbers ; but whether an infinite nature can communicate it self to three different subsistences without such a division as is among created beings , must not be determined by bare numbers , but by the absolute perfections of the divine nature ; which must be owned to be above our comprehension . for let us examine some of those perfections which are most clearly revealed and we shall find this true . the scripture plainly reveals , that god is from everlasting to everlasting ; that he was and is and is to come ; but shall we not believe the truth of this till we are able to fathom the abyss of god's eternity ? i am apt to think ( and i have some thoughtful men concurring with me ) that there is no greater difficulty in the conception of the trinity and incarnation , than there is of eternity . not , but that there is great reason to believe it ; but from hence it appears that our reason may oblige us to believe some things which it is not possible for us to comprehend . we know that either god must have been for ever , or it is impossible he ever should be ; for if he should come into being when he was not , he must have some cause of his being ; and that which was the first cause would be god. but , if he was for ever he must be from himself ; and what notion or conception can we have in our minds concerning it ? and yet , atheistical men can take no advantage from hence ; because their own most absurd hypothesis hath the very same difficulty in it . for something must have been for ever . and it is far more reasonable to suppose it of an infinite and eternal mind , which hath wisdom and power and goodness to give being to other things , than of dull , stupid and sensless matter , which could never move it self , nor give being to any thing besides . here we have therefore a thing which must be owned by all ; and yet such a thing which can be conceived by none . which shews the narrowness and shortness of our understandings , and how unfit they are to be the measures of the possibilities of things . vain men would be wise ; they would fain go to the very bottom of things , when alas ! they scarce understand the very surface of them . they will allow no mysteries in religion ; and yet every thing is a mystery to them . they cry out of cheats and impostures under the notion of mysteries ; and yet there is not a spire of grass but is a mystery to them ; they will bear with nothing in religion which they cannot comprehend , and yet there is scarce any thing in the world which they can comprehend . but above other things the divine perfections , even those which are most absolute and necessary are above their reach . for let such men try their imaginations about god's eternity , not meerly how he should be from himself , but how god should coexist with all the differences of times , and yet there be no succession in his own being . i do not say there is such difficulty to conceive a rock standing still when the waves run by it ; or the gnomon of a dial when the shadow passes from one figure to another ; because these are gross unactive things ; but the difficulty is far greater where the being is perfect and always active . for , where there is succession there is a passing out of not being in such a duration into being in it ; which is not consistent with the absolute perfection of the divine nature . and therefore god must be all at once what he is , without any respect to the difference of time past , present or to come . from whence eternity was defined by boethius to be a perfect and complete possession all at once of everlasting life . but how can we from any conception in our minds of that being all at once , which hath such different acts as must be measur'd by a long succession of time ? as , the creating and dissolving the frame of the world ; the promising and sending the messias ; the declaring and executing a general judgment ; how can these things be consistent with a permanent instant , or a continuance of being without succession ? for , it is impossible for us in this case , as to god's eternity , to form a clear and distinct idea in our mind , of that which both reason and revelation convince us must be . the most we can make of our conception of it is , that god hath neither beginning of being , nor end of days ; but that he always was and always must be . and this is rather a necessary conclusion from reason and scripture , than any distinct notion or conception of eternity in our minds . from whence it evidently follows , that god may reveal something to us , which we are bound to believe , and yet after that revelation the manner of it may be incomprehensible by us , and consequently a mystery to us . hath not god revealed to us in scripture the spirituality of his own nature ? that he is a spirit , and therefore will be worshipped in spirit and in truth ; for , that is a true reason why spiritual worship should be most agreeable to him . now , if we could have a clear , distinct , positive notion in our minds of god's spiritual nature , we might then pretend that there is nothing mysterious in this , since it is revealed . but let such men examine their own thoughts about this matter ; and try , whether the utmost they can attain to , be not something negative , viz. because great absurdities would follow if we attributed any thing corporeal to god ; for , then he must be compounded of parts , and so he may be dissolved ; then he must be confined to a certain place , and not every-where present ; he cannot have the power of acting and self-determining which a meer body hath not . for the clearest notion we can have of body , is , that it is made up of some things as parts of it , which may be separated from each other ; and is confined to a certain place , and hath no power to move or act from it self . but some of these men who cry down mysteries and magnifie reason , to shew how slender their pretences to reason are , have asserted a corporeal god , with shape and figure . it was indeed , well thought of by those who would make a man to be god , to bring god down as near to man as might be . but how to reconcile the notion of a body with infinite perfections , is a mystery to me , and far above my comprehension . but if it be no mystery to such men , they must either deny god's infinite perfections or shew how a bodily shape can be capable of them . but some men can confound finite and infinite , body and spirit , god and man , and yet are for no mysteries ; whereas these things are farther from our reach and comprehension , than any o● those doctrines which they find fault with ▪ but to proceed . if we believe prophecy , we must believe god's fore-knowledge of future events : for , how could they be fore-told if he did not fore-know them ? and if he did fore-know those which he did fore-tell , then it was either because those only were revealed to him which is inconsistent with the divine perfections ; or that he doth fore-know all other events and only thought fitting to reveal these : but how can they solve the difficulties about divine prescience ? is there no mystery in this ? nothing above their comprehension ? what then made their great master deny it , as a thing above his comprehension ? because nothing can be fore-known but what hath a certain cause , and therefore , if evil actions be fore-told , god must be the cause of them , and men will not be free agents in them . and yet it is most certain , that the sufferings of christ by the wickedness of men , were fore-told . what then ? must we make god the author of sin ? god forbid . will the righteous judge of all the earth , punish mankind for his own acts , which they could not avoid ? then we must yield , that there is something in the manner of the divine prescience , which is above our comprehension . and the most searching and inquisitive men have been forc'd to yield it at last , as to the connection between the certainty of prescience and the liberty of humane actions . is it not then much better to sit down quietly at first , adoring the infiniteness of god's incomprehensible perfections , than after all the huffings and disputings of men to say , in ignorantiâ solà quietem invenio , as the great schoolman did ? surely then , here is something plainly revealed , and yet the manner of it is still a mystery to us . i shall not now insist on any more of the particular attributes of god , but only in general i desire to know , whether they believe them to be finite or infinite ? if to be finite , then they must have certain bounds and limits which they cannot exceed ; and that must either be from the imperfection of nature , or from a superiour cause , both which are repugnant to the very being of god. if they believe them to be infinite , how can they comprehend them ? we are strangely puzled in plain , ordinary , finite things ; but it is madness to pretend to comprehend what is infinite ; and yet if the perfections of god be not infinite they cannot belong to him. i shall only add , in consequence to this assertion , that if nothing is to be believed , but what may be comprehended , the very being of god must be rejected too . and therefore i desire all such who talk so warmly against any mysteries in religion , to consider whose work it is they are doing ; even theirs who under this pretence go about to overthrow all religion . for , say they , religion is a mystery in its own nature ; not this or that , or the other religion ; but they are all alike , all is mystery ; and that is but another name for fraud and imposture . what were the heathen mysteries but tricks of priest-craft ; and such are maintained and kept up in all kinds of religion . if therefore these men , who talk against mysteries understand themselves , they must in pursuance of their principles reject one god , as well as three persons ; for , as long as they believe an infinite and incomprehensible being , it is nonsense to reject any other doctrine , which relates to an infinite being , because it is incomprehensible . but yet these very men , who seem to pursue the consequence of this principle to the utmost , must assert something more incomprehensible than the being of god. for , i appeal to any man of common understanding , whether it be not more agreeable to reason to suppose works of skill , beauty and order to be the effects of a wise and intelligent being , than of blind chance and unaccountable necessity ; whether it be not more agreeable to the sense of mankind to suppose an infinite and eternal mind endued with all possible perfections to be the maker of this visible world ; than , that it should start out from it self , without contrivance , without order , without cause ? certainly such men have no reason to find fault with the mysteries of religion because they are incomprehensible , since there is nothing so absurd and incomprehensible , as their darling hypothesis ; and , there is nothing which can make it prevail , but to suppose mankind to be as dull and insensible as the first chaos . thus i have shewn that it is not unreasonable for god to require from us the belief of something which we cannot comprehend . ( . ) i now come to consider , whether those who are so afraid of incomprehensible mysteries in our faith , have made it so much more easie in the way they have taken . and notwithstanding all the hectoring talk against mysteries and things incomprehensible in religion , i find more insuperable difficulties in point of reason in their way than in ours . as for instance . ( . ) it is a more reasonable thing to suppose something mysterious in the eternal son of gods being with the father before the world was made by him ; ( as s. iohn expresses it in the beginning of his gospel ) than in supposing that although iohn the baptist were born six months before iesus christ ; that yet christ was in dignity before him . what a wonderful mystery is this ? can men have the face to cry down mysteries in deep speculations , and matters of a high and abstruse nature , when they make such mysteries of plain and easie things ? and suppose the evangelist in profound language and lofty expressions to prove a thing , which was never disputed , viz. although christ iesus were born six months after iohn , yet he was in dignity before him ? ( . ) it is a more reasonable thing to suppose that a divine person should assume humane nature , and so the word to be made flesh ; than to say , that an attribute of god , his wisdom or power is made flesh , which is a mystery beyond all comprehension ; there may be some difficulties in our conception of the other , but this is a thing beyond all conception or imagination ; for an accident to be made a substance is as absurd , as to imagine it to subsist without one . ( . ) it is more reasonable to suppose that the son of god should come down from heaven and take our nature upon him , than that a man should be rapt up into heaven , that it might be said that he came down from thence . for in the fo●mer supposition we have many other places of scripture to support it , which speak of his being with god , and having glory with him before the world was ; whereas there is nothing for the other , but only that it is necessary to make some tolerable sense of those words . ( . ) it is more reasonable to believe that god should become man by taking our n●ture upon him , than that man should become god. for in the former , there is nothing but the difficulty of conceiving the ma●●●r of the union , which we all grant to be so between soul and body ; but in the other there is a repugnancy in the very conception of a created god , of an eternal son of adam , of omnipotent infirmity , of an infinite finite being . in the former case , an infinite is united to a finite ; but in the other a finite becomes infinite . ( . ) it is more reasonable to believe that christ iesus should suffer as he did for our sakes than for his own . we are all agreed that the sufferings of christ were far beyond any thing he deserved at god's hands ; but what account then is to be given of them ? we say that he made himself a voluntary sacrifice for expiation of the sins of mankind ; and so there was a great and noble end designed , and no injury done to a willing mind ; and the scripture as plainly expresses this , as it can do in words . but others deny this , and make him to suffer as one wholly innocent ; for what cause ? to make the most innocent persons as apprehensive of suffering as the most guilty ; and the most righteous god to put no difference between them , with respect to suffering . ( . ) it is more reasonable to suppose such a condescension in the son of god to take upon him the form of a servant for our advantage ; than that a meer man should be exalted to the honour and worship which belongs only to god. for , on the one side , there is nothing but what is agreeable to the divine nature , viz. infinite love and condescension and pity to mankind ; on the other , there is the greatest design of self-exaltation that ever was in humane nature , viz. for a meer man to have the most essential attributes and incommunicable honour which belongs to god. and whether of these two is more agreeable to the spirit and design of the new testament , let any man of understanding judge . for as it is evident , that the great intention of it is to magnifie the wonderful love of god in the sending of his son ; so it is as plain that one great end of the christian doctrine was to take mankind off from giving divine worship to creatures ; and can we then suppose that at the same time it should set up the worship of a meer man with all the honour and adoration which belongs to god ? this is to me an incomprehensible mystery indeed , and far beyond all that is implied in the mysteries of the trinity and incarnation . for it subverts the very foundation of the design of christianity as to the reforming idolatry then in being ; it lays the foundation for introducing it into the wo●ld again ; for since the distance between god and his creatures is taken away , in the matter of worship , there is nothing left but the declaration of his will ; which doth not exclude more mediators of intercession but upon this ground , that the mediation of redemption is the foundation of that of intercession . and it is far more easie for us to suppose there may be some things too hard for us to understand in the mystery of our redemption by iesus christ , than that at the same time it should be both a duty and a sin to worship any but the true god with proper divine worship . for if it be idolatry to give it to a creature , then it is a great sin ; for so the scripture still accounts it ; but if we are bound to give it to christ who is but a creature , then that which in it self is a sin , is now become a necessary duty ; which overthrows the natural differences of good and evil , and makes idolatry to be a meer arbitrary thing . and i take it for granted , that in matters of religion , moral difficulties are more to be regarded than intellectual ; because religion was far more designed for a rule of our actions , than for the satisfaction of our curiosity . and upon due examination we shall find that there is no such frightfull appearances of difficulties in the mystery of the incarnation , as there is in giving divine worship to a creature . and it ought to be observed , that those very places which are supposed to exclude christ from being the true god ; must , if they have any force , exclude him from divine worship . for they are spoken of god , as the object of our worship ; but if he be not excluded from divine worship , then neither is he from being the true god ; which they grant he is by office , but not by nature . but a god by office who is not so by nature is a new and incomprehensible mystery . a mystery hidden from ages and generations as to the church of god ; but not made known by the gospel of his son. this is such a kind of mystery as the heathen priests had , who had gods many and lords many , as the apostle saith , i. e. many by office although but one by nature . but if the christian religion had owned one god by nature and only one by office , the heathens had been to blame chiefly in the number of their gods by office , and not in the divine worship which they gave to them . but s. paul blames the heathens for doing service to them which by nature are no gods ; not for doing it without divine authority , nor for mistaking the person who was god by office , but in giving divine worship to them who by nature were no gods ; which he would never have said , if by the christian doctrine , divine worship were to be given to one who was not god by nature . but these are indeed incomprehensible mysteries how a man by nature can be a god really and truly by office ; how the incommunicable perfections of the divine nature can be communicated to a creature ; how god should give his glory to another , and by his own command require that to be given to a creature , which himself had absolutely forbidden to be given to any besides himself . it is said by a famous iesuit ( i will not say how agreeably to their own doctrines and practices about divine worship ) that the command of god cannot make him worthy of divine worship , who without such a command is not worthy of it . and it is very absurd to say , that he that is unworthy of it without a command , can become worthy by it ; for it makes god to command divine honour to be given to one who cannot deserve it . ( for no meer man can deserve to be made god. ) but it is more agreeable to the divine nature and will not to give his honour to a creature . ( . ) but after all the invectives of these enemies to mysteries , we do not make that which we say is incomprehensible to be a necessary article of faith as it is incomprehensible ; but we do assert that what is incomprehensible as to the manner , may be a necessary article as far as it is plainly revealed . as in the instances i have already mentioned of the creation and resurrection of the dead ; would they in earnest have men turn infidels as to these things till they are able to comprehnd all the difficulties which relate to them ? if not , why should this suggestion be allow'd as to the mysteries which relate to our redemption by iesus christ ? if it be said , the case is not alike for those are clearly revealed and these are not ; this brings it to the true and proper issue of this matter , and if we do not prove a clear revelation , we do not assert their being necessary articles of faith ; but my present business was only to take off this objection , that the mysteries were incomprehensible and therefore not to be received by us . ii. and so i come to the second way , by which we are to examine the several senses of christ iesus coming to save sinners : which of them tends more to the benefit and advantage of mankind ; or which is more worthy of all acceptation . and that will appear by considering these things ; ( . ) which tends most to the raising our esteem and love of christ iesus . ( . ) which tends most to the begetting in us a greater hatred of sin. ( . ) which tends most to the strengthening our hope of salvation by iesus christ. ( . ) as to the raising in us a greater esteem and love of christ. we are certain that the infinite love and condescension of christ iesus in undertaking such a work as the saving of sinners makes it most worthy of all acceptation . some men may please themselves in thinking that by taking away all mysteries they have made their faith more easie , but i am certain they have extremely lessen'd the argument for our love , viz. the apprehensions of the wonderfull love and condescension of christ in coming into the world to save sinners . and yet this is the great argument of the new testament to perswade mankind to the love of god and of his son : god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son , &c. this is indeed a mighty argument of love , if by the only begotten son be meant the eternal son of god , who came down from heaven , as s. iohn speaks just before ; but if no more be meant but only that god made a meer man to be his son , and after he had preached a while here on earth and was ill used and crucified by his own people , he exalted him to be god and gave him divine attributes and honours ; this were an argument of great love to the person of christ , but not to the rest of mankind . but god's love in scripture is magnified with respect to the world in the sending of his son. in this was manifested , saith the apostle , the love of god towards us , because that god sent his only begotten son into the world that we should live through him . herein is love , not that we loved god , but that he loved us , and sent his son to be a propitiation for our sins . the great love we still see is towards us , i. e. towards mankind ; but according to the other sense it must have been , herein was the love of god manifested to his son , that for his sufferings he exalted him above all creatures . he that spared not his own son , saith s. paul , but delivered him up for us all . if he were the eternal son of god who came to suffer for us , there is a mighty force and emphasis in this expression , and very apt to raise our admiration and our love ; but what not sparing his own son is there , if nothing were meant but that he designed by sufferings to exalt him ? for not sparing him supposes an antecedent relation of the highest kindness , but the other is only designing extraordinary kindness for the sake of his sufferings . therefore , the argument for the love of god is taken from what his son was , when he deliver'd him up for us all ; he was his own son ; not by adoption as others are ; s. iohn calls him , his only begotten son ; and god himself , his beloved son in the voice from heaven ; and this before his sufferings , immediately after his baptism , when as yet , there was nothing extraordinary done by him , as to the great design of his coming . which shews , that there was an antecedent relation between him and the father ; and that therein the love of god and of christ was manifested , that being the only begotten son of the father , he should take our nature upon him and for our sakes do and 〈◊〉 what he did . this is indeed an argument great enough to raise our ad●●ration , to excite our devotion , to in●●●me our a●●ections ; but how flat and low doth it appear , when it comes to no more 〈◊〉 this , that there was a man , w●om ▪ after his sufferings god raised from the dead and made him a god by office ? doth this carry any such argument in it for our esteem and love and devotion to him as the other doth upon the mo●● serious consideration of it ? ( . ) which tends most to beget in 〈◊〉 a greater hatred of sin. for that is so contrary to the way of our salvation by iesus christ , that what tends most to ou● hatred of it , must conduce most to our happiness , and therefore be most worthy of all acceptation . it is agreed on all hand● , that christ did suffer very much both in his mind and in his body . in his mind , when it is said , that he was troubled in spirit ; that he began to be sorrowfull and very heavy ; and soon after , my soul is exceeding sorrowfull , even unto death . s. luke saith , that he was in an agony ; wherein he not only prayed more earnestly , but his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling to the ground . what made this amazement , and dreadfull agony in the mind of the most innocent person in the world ? was it meerly the fear of the pains of death which he was to undergo ? that is impossible , considering the assurance which he had of so glorious a reward so soon following after ; when so many martyrs endured such exquisite torments for his sake without any such disturbance or consternation . but the apostles give us another account of it . s. peter saith , he was to bear our sins in his own body on the tree ; that christ suffered for sins , the just for the unjust . s. paul , that god made him to be sin for us who knew no sin , that he might be made the righteousness of god in him . hereby we understand how so innocent a person came to suffer ; he stood in our stead ; he was made sin for us ; and therefore was to be treated as a sinner ; and to suffer that on our account , which he could not deserve on his own . if he suffer'd on his own account , this were the way to fill our minds with perplexity concerning the justice of providence with respect to his dealings with the most innocent and holy persons in this world ; if he suffer'd on our account , then we have the benefit of his sufferings , and therein we see how displeasing to god sin is , when even his own son suffer'd so much by taking the guilt of our sins upon him . and what can tend more to the begetting in us a due hatred of sin , than to consider what christ himself suffer'd on the account of it ? what can make us have more dreadful thoughts of it , than that the great and merciful god , when he designed to save sinners , yet would have his own son to become a propitiation for the sins of mankind ? and unless we allow this , we must put force upon the plainest expressions of scripture ; and make christ to suffer meerly to shew god's power over a most innocent person , and his will and pleasure to inflict the most severe punishment without any respect to guilt . and surely such a notion of god , cannot be worthy of all acceptation . ( . ) which tends most to strengthen our hope of salvation by christ iesus . if we believe that he suffer'd for our sins , then we have great reason to hope for the forgiveness of them ; although they have been many and great , if we sincerely repent ; because the most prevailing argument for despair will be removed ; which is taken from the iustice of god , and his declared hatred of sin and displeasure against sinners . if god be so much in earnest displeased with the sins of mankind , and his justice be concerned in the punishment of sinners , how can they ever hope to escape , unless there be a way for his displeasure to be removed , and his justice to be satisfied ? and this the scripture tells us is done by christ , who died that he might be a sacrifice of atonement to reconcile us to god by his death ; as s. paul expresly affirms . and by this means , we may have strong consolation from the hopes of forgiveness of our sins . whereas , if this be taken away , either men must believe that god was not in earnest displeased with the sins of mankind ; which must exceedingly lessen our esteem of the holiness and iustice of god ; or if he were so displeased , that he laid aside his displeasure , without any atonement or sacrifice of expiation . and so , as many as look on god's iustice and holiness as necessary and essential attributes of god , will be in danger of sinking into the depths of despair , as often as they reflect seriously on the guilt of their sins . but on the other side , if we believe that while we were enemies we were reconciled to god by the death of his son ; then we may have peace with god through our lord iesus christ ; and have reason to believe that there will be no condemnation to them that are in christ iesus by a lively faith and sincere repentance ; then they may with comfort look up to god as a reconciled father , through iesus christ our mediator : then they may with inward satisfaction look beyond the grave , and stedfastly hope for that salvation which christ purchased on earth and will at last bestow on all such as love and obey him . to which god of his infinite mercy bring us all through iesus christ. for , this is a faithfull saying and worthy of all acceptation , that he came into the world to save sinners . finis . books written by the right reverend father in god edw. l. bishop of worcester , and sold by h. mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . a rational account of the grounds of the protestant religion ; being a vindication of the lord archbishop of canterbury's relation of a conference , &c. from the pretended answer of t. g. d . edit . fol. origines britannica , or the antiquities of the british churches , with a preface concerning some pretended antiquities relating to britain , in vindication of the bishop of st. asaph . folio . irenicum , a weapon-salve for the churches wounds . quarto . origines sacrae , or a rational account of the grounds of christian faith , as to the truth and divine authority of the script and the matters therein contained . to . a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it . octavo . an answer to several late treatises occasioned by a book entituled , a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it ; part i. octavo . a second discourse in vindication of the protestant grounds of faith , against the pretence of infallibility in the roman church , in answer to the guide in controversie , by r. h. protestancy without principles , and reason and religion ; or the certain rule of faith , by e. w. with a particular enquiry into the miracles of the roman church . octavo . an answer to mr. cressy's epistle apologetical to a person of honour , touching his vindication of dr. stillingfleet . octavo . a defence of the discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , in answer to a book entituled , catholicks no idolaters : octavo . several conferences between a romish priest , a fanatick chaplain , and a divine of the church of england ; being a full answer to the late dialogues of t. g. octavo . a discourse concerning bonds of resignation of benefices in point of law and conscience , in octavo . a discourse concerning the illegality of the ecclesiastical commission , in answer to the vindication and defence of it : wherein the true notion of the legal supremacy is cleared ; and an account is given of the nature , original and mischief of the dispensing power . the council of trent examin'd and disprov'd by catholick tradition , in the main points in controversie between us and the church of rome ; with a particular account of the times and occasions of introducing them . the unreasonableness of separation , or an impartial account of the history , nature and pleas of the present separation from the communion of the ch. of england . quarto . the grand question concerning the bishops right to vote in parliament in cases capital stated and argued , from the parliament-rolls and the history of former times ; with an enquiry into their peerage , and the tree estates in parliament . octavo . twelve sermons preached upon several occasions . vol. i. octavo . ten sermons preached upon several occasions . vol. ii. octavo . a third volume will be shortly published . a discourse in vindication of the doctrine of the trinity : with an answer to the late socinian objections against it , from scripture , antiquity and reason . and a preface concerning the different explication of the trinity , and the tendency of the present socinian controversie . the second . edition . octavo . the bishop of worcester's answer to mr. lock 's letter concerning some passages relating to his essay of humane understanding , mentioned in the late discourse in vindication of the trinity . with a postscript in answer to some reflections made on that treatise in a late socinian treatise . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e considerations on the explications of the trinity in the archbishop's sermons , &c. p. . answ. to serm. p . socin . op. t. . p. . socin . epist . p. . ed. racov. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . catech. racov. c. . q. . q. . q. . catech. racov. staurop . a.d. . p. . considerations on the explications of the trinity by dr. w. &c. p. . answer to my serm. p. . answ. to milb . p. . answ. to milb . p. . p. . p. . trinitarian scheme of relig. p. . p. . answ. to the archbishop , p. . matt. ● . . mark . . levit. . . heb. . . levit. . , . , , . v. . . heb. . , , , . . heb. . . levit. . . . . . . . matt. . . heb. . , . john . , . cor. . . gal. . ● eph. . . coloss. . . rom. . . . . eph. . . heb. . , . tim. . . pet. . . . . john . . . . . . socin . de serv. l. . c. . in fin . answ. to milb . p. . ch. i. answ. to milb . p. . deut. . . psal. . . neh. . . dan. . , . zeph. . . gen. . . . . psal. . . prov. . . psal. . . zech. . . ch. i. p. . catech. racov. p. . schlictin . in joh . . curcel . instit . l. . c. . §. . limborch . theol. christ. l. . c. . §. . rom. . . episcop . inst. theol . l. . c. . vorst . de attrib . disp. . §. . §. . §. . not. ad §. . vindic. of s. r. h. p. . socin de servat . part. . c. . &c. c. . chap. ii. chap. iii. ch. iv. v. . notes for div a -e of the socinian way of interpreting scripture . john . , . socin . de servat . part. . cap. . the state of the controversie in general . of the difference of debts and punishments . non resipiscentibus veneam non concedere , id demum naturae divinae , & decretis ejus & propterea rectitudini & ●quitati debitum est ac consentaneum . socin . de servat . l. . c . non resipiscentes poenà non liberare tum per se aequitati est admodum cons●ntaneum , & positis quibusdam finibus quos deus sibi in regendis hominibus pr●fixit facto necessarium . crell . c. grot. c. . sect . . the reason of humane punishment is the publick interest . the right of divine punishment not mere dominion . crell . respons . ad grot. cap. . sect . . &c. p. . soc. de servat . l. . c. . pralect . c. . . the end of punishments not bare compensation as it is in debts . crell . c. grot. cap. . sect. . p. . sect. . p. . crell . c. grot. cap. . p. . sect. . p. . of crellius his great mistake about the end of punishments . crell . cap. . sect . . sect . . p. . of the nature of anger and revenge in men , and whether punishments are designed to satisfie them . crell . c. . sect . . p. . ●●er● . . seneca de clem. l. . c. . de irâ , l. . c. . de irâ , l. . c. . de ira , l. . c. . cap. . cap. . de clem. l. , c. . de clem. l. . c. , . sallust . in catalin . cicero . . v. cicero de invent. . de irâ , l. . c. . * non praeterita sed futura intuebitur ; nam ut plato ait , nemo prudens punit quia peccatum est , sed sen. de ira , ne peccetur . l. . c. . lact. de ira dei. c. . cap. . sect . . cap. . sect . . p. . sect. . p. . sen. de ira , l. . c. , & . chap. . quibus ( sc. solatio & securitati ) addi possint honoris ac dignitatis , per injuriam violatae , & aliquae ratione imminutae vindiciae , assertioque juris nostri . crel . cap. . sect . . p. . the interest of the magistrate in punishment distinct from that of private persons . de morib . german . c. . grot. de leg . goth. in proleg . ad hist. goth. p. . lindenbrog . gloss. ad cod. leg. antiq. v. freda . spelman . gloss. v. freda . bignon . not . in macculphi form . cap. . varro de l. l. lib. . iul. pollux . l. . of the nature of anger in god ; the satisfaction to be made to it . crell . cap. sect . . p. . p. . cicer. tuscul . arist . rhet. l. . c. . crell . c. . sect . . p. . crell . de verâ relig· l. . c. . crell . cap. . sect . . p. . of the ends of divine punishments . crell . c. . sect . . p. . p. . ezek. . v. , . c. . . grot de satisfact . c. . p. . ed. . grot. de jure belli , &c. l . c. . sect . . the ends of divine punishments different in this and the future state . the particular state of the controversie concerning the sufferings of christ for us . crell . praef . p. . ruarus in epistol . crell . cap. . sect . cap. . sect . . cap. , , &c. cap. . sect . . whether the sufferings of christ are to be considered as a punishment of sin . crell . cap. . sect . . p. . crell . cap. . sect . . &c. socin . de christo servat . l. . c. . crell . cap. . sect . . socin . l. . c. . crell . c. . sect . . the sufferings of christ proved to be a punishment from scripture . pet. . . isa. . , , , , , . cor. . . gal. . . rom. . . soc. de servat . l. . cap. . crell . cap. . sect. . psal. . . heb. . . doctissimè & elegantissimè vatablus ut ferè solet . soc. de serv. l. . c. . crell . cap. . sect. . ezek. . . crell . cap. . sect . . of the scape-goats bearing away the sins of the people . socin . . c. . lev. . . grot. de sat . cap. . crell cap. . sect . . gen. . . gen. . . isa. . . lev. . . cod. ioma . tit . . lev. . . heb. . . lev. . . v. . v. . v. . crell . c. . sect . . grotius his sense of pet. . . vindicated . crell . c. . sect . . crell . his sense examined . soc. de serv. l. . cap. . crell . cap. ● . sect. . sect. . isa. . . vindicated . crell . c. . sect . . crell . c. . sect . . crell . c. . sect . . p. . soc. prael . c. . sect . . sam. . . mat. . . mat. . , . luk. . . epist. eccl. p. , . discuss . p. , . isa. . , , . vindicated . de servat . l. . c. . crell . c. . sect . . crell . c. . sect . . whether christ's death be a proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and whether that doth imply that it was a punishment of sin . god's hatred of sin could not be seen in the sufferings of christ , if they were no punishment of sin . crell . c. . p. . crell . c. . sect . . crell . c. . sect . , . grotius his arguments from christ's being made sin and a curse for us defended against crellius . crell . c. . sect . . soc. l. . c. . gen. . . crell . cap. . sect. . socin . explicat . . cap. iob. v. . socin . de christo servat . l. . c. . c●●ll an●● . in loc . the particles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being joyned to sins , and relating to sufferings , do imply those sufferings to be the punishment of sin . rom. . . cor. . . pet. . . heb. . . crell . cap. . sect . . sect. . p. . socin . de servat . l. . c. . the matter debated in point of reason . c●rtum est christum innocentissimum a deogravissim●s cruciatibus , ipsaque morte fuisse affectum ; cum non in materiâ poenae absolute & per se consideratâ , adeoque etiam in e● afflictione à quà poenae forma abest , injuria residere à nobis dicatur . crel . c. . sect. . potuit autem id deus fa●ere , atque adeo fecit , jure dominii , quod in christi vitam a● corpus habebat ; accedente praesertim ipsius christi consensu . id. 〈◊〉 sect . quod si ex thesi speciale facere velis generalem , ea haec erit , injustum esse punire innocentem , quacunque tandem de causâ id fiat ; non vero simpliciter , punire quempiam ob aliena delicta ; id enim concedi potest non semper esse injustum . crel . c. . sect. . cum ne illud quidem ad naturam poenae requiratur , ut is ipse , qui puniendus est poenam reverà fuerit commeritus , id. sect . poenae quidem simpliciter in innocentem cadit , justa non cadit , crell . c. . sect. . in what cases crellius grants some may be lawfully punished for the sins of others . quia deus hunc puniendo illum quoque alterum ob cujus peccati eum dicitur punire , simul punire possit , ob arctiorem quae inter illos intercedat conjunctionem . crell . ib. sect. . crell . p. . crell . ib. sect . . sect . . crellius his arguments propounded . crell . c. . sect . . p. , . crell . ib. sect . . that a person by his own consent may be punished beyond the desert of his own actions . grot. de satisf . c. . crell c . sect . . p. . objections answered . immerito quenquam punire est injustè punire . crell . p. . the instances of scripture considered . exod. . . alph à castro de justâ haeret . punit . l. . c. . gen . sam. . . sam. . . kin. . v. to v. . vers. . vers. . chron. ● . . sam. . , . ezek. . . explained . ezek. . . . jer. . , . ezek. . . matt. . . ezek. . . ezek. . . crell . c . sect . . the deliverance of the guilty by the sufferings of an innocent person by his own consent , makes not the punishment unjust . crell . c. . sect . , , , &c. crell . c. . sect . . kin. . . crell cap. . sect . . crell . ib. sect . . the death of christ considered as an expiatory sacrifice for sin . heb. . . crell . c. . sect . . crell . c. . sect . . what the expiation of sin was by the sacrifices under the law. grot de satisf . c. . heb. . , . heb. . . heb. . . . . socin . de servat . l. . c. . praelect . theolog . cap. . a substitution proved from lev. . ▪ &c. crell . c. . sect . exod. . , . , . ovid. fast. l. . lev. . . servius ad aeneid . . euseb. demonst . evang . l. . c. . crell . c. . sect . . denotat enim vox 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 eos quorum alter pro alpero animam ponat aut de vo●veat , & sic id malum quod alteri subcundum erat ejus lo●o subire non detrectet . socin . de servat . l. . c. . numb . . . crell . c. . sect . . deut. . ● . a substitution of christ in our room proved by his dying for us . pet. . . . . . . cor. . . rom. . . tim. . . heb. . . joh. . . luke . , . matt. . . joh. . . col. . ● . soc. de servat . l. . c. . cor. . . socin . ●b . in what sense a surrogation of christ in our room is asserted by us . crell . c. . sect . . ib. sect . . ib. sect . . ib. sect . ● . ib sect . . covarru . . to. . p. . sect . . n. . our redemption by christ proves a substitution . crell . c. . sect . . of the true notion of redemption . socin . de servat . l. . c. , . crell . c. . sect . . ulpian l. . d. de jure sisci . budaeus ad pandect . p. . liv. l. . festus v. red . ulpian . l. . d. de rei vend . cic ep fam . l. . ep . . orat. pro 〈◊〉 . soc. de servat . l. . c. . no necessity of paying the price to him that detains captive . crell . c. . sect . . of the oblation made by christ unto god. crell . c. . sect . . ib. sect . . ib. sect . . ib. sect . . ib. sect . . sect. . that the priestly office of christ had a primary respect to god , and not us . crell . in heb. . . crell . c. ● ▪ sect . . numb . . . vers . sam. . . lev. . . . . . . chron. . . grot. in heb. . . christ no barely metaphorical high-priest . 〈◊〉 c. . sect . heb . crell . cap. . sect . . id. sect . . p. . crellius destroys the priesthoo● of christ smalc c. smiglect . crell . cap. ●● . p. . levit. . . v. ● , . no proper expiation of sin belongs to christ in heaven , if crelleus his doctrine be true ▪ crell . c. . sect . . crell . c. . sect . . p. . heb. . . rom. . . joh. . . ephes. . . proves the death of christ an expiatory sacrifice and an oblation to god. eph. . . crell . c. . sect . . gen. . , . porphyr . de abstinent . l. . sect . . ioseph . antiq . iud. l. . c. . crellius his mistakes about the kinds of sacrifices . gen. . , . job . . . . selden de jure nat . & gent. apud ebrae . l. . c. . &c. . levit. . ● . lev. . . . &c. lev. . . crell . c. . p. . what influence the mactation of th● sacrifice had on expiation . crell . c. p. . levit. . . heb. . . levit. . , . 〈…〉 cap . sect . ● cap. ● sect . . heb. . , . . , . macrob. saturn . l. . c. . strabo , l. . eustath . in hom. iliad . . strabo . l. . herod . l. . whether christ's oblation of himself once to god , were in heaven or on earth . crell . cap. . sect . . lev. . ▪ v. ▪ lev. . , . v. . lev. . . lev. . , . lev. . . lev. . , . all things necessary to a legal oblation concur in the death of christ. heb. . . heb. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . herodot . l. . c . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . plutarch . de iside . xenoph. cyropaed . l. . . strab. l. . plutarch symp. l. . probl . . christ's entrance into heaven could not be the oblation of himself mentioned . mat. . . phil. . , . christ's exercise of power in heaven in no sense an oblation to god. crellius his sense repugnant to the circumstances of the places . heb. . . . . . . heb . , . . heb. . . heb. . . heb. . , . crell cap. sect . heb . , . objections answered . heb. . . . . . . . . . . crell . c. . sect . . socin . praelect . c. ult . of the true notion of expiation , as attributed to sacrifices . socin . de christo servat . p. . l. . crell . cap. ▪ sect . . crell . c. . s●ct . . socin . de servat . p. . c. . psal. . . lib. . . ver. , ● . crellius his objections answered . crell . c. . sect . . cum non neget , socinus hoc verbum placandi significationem habere . crell . c. . sect . . the iews notion of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 buxtorf lexic talmud . v. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 matth. . . * socin . l . c. . d●c●t socinus victimar●m oblation●m obedientiam quandam d●o praestandam , quanquam levem continuisse , quam ex promiss● dei le vium q●●orundam erratorum 〈…〉 ▪ gods expiating sin , destroys not expiation by sacrifices . crell . ib. sect . ▪ h●b . ver , . ver. , , , , . lev. . . the importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , relating to sacrifices . crell . c. . sect . , & . itaque quod ad voces graecas 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 attinet , quibus in hoc argumento non semel utitur d. scriptor ad heb. eae ad christi sacrificium & sacerdoti● functionem relatae eo etiam sensu usurpantur quem graeca lingua receperat , h●e . de expurgatione reatus & aversione irae numinis aut paenae . crell . c. . p. . expiation attributed to the sacrifice of christ in the same sense that it was to other sacrifices . crell . c. . sect . . crell . c. . sect . . expiation by christ not meerly declarative . crell cap. sect . p . crell . c. . sect . . the death of christ not taken metonymically for all the consequents of it . crell c. . sect . . sect . . c. . sect . p. . crell . c . sect . . rom . . . . . . expiation attributed to christ antecedently to his entrance into heaven . crell . c. . sect . . no distinction in scripture of the effects of christ's entrance into heaven from his sitting at the right hand of god. crell . c. . sect . . p. . matth. . . phil. , . of the atonement made by christ's death . crell . c. . sect . . crell . . sect . . of reconciliation by christ's death . rom. . cor. , . eph. . . col. . , , . crell . c. . sect . , , , , &c. psal. . . . . psal. . . . . . . levit. . . crell de deo & attrib . l . c. . cor. . ▪ . crell . c. . sect . . cap. . sect . . crell . c sect . . objections answered . the freeness of grace asserted in scripture , destroys not satisfaction . gen. . . job . . notes for div a -e ver. . joh. . . ch. . v. . phil. . , . act. . joh . , . . . . joh . . v. . joh. . . v. . v. , . v. . mat. . . matth. . . v. . mark . . v. . matth . . luk. . . joh. . . joh. . , . &c. rom. . . rom. . . col. . . heb. . ▪ . tim. . . discourse of the word mystery , &c. p. . observations on dr. wallis his four letters , p. . psal. . . revel . . c. . v. . bister field c. crell . p. . petav. de trinit . l. . c. . sect . . de consol . l. . s. joh. . . socin . prael . c. . cajetan in . q. ▪ art . ▪ s. joh. . . cor. . . socin . ad eutrop. p. . c wick . c. . catech . racov . p. . cor. . . gal. . . smiglec . de divin . verb. incarn . nat. p. . n●va monstra , &c. p. . joh. . . v. . joh . . v. . rom. . . john . . ch . . v. . luk. . . joh. . . matt. . , . mark . , . luke . . pet. . . . . cor. . . rom. . . cor. . . heb. . . a letter to a deist, in answer to several objections against the truth and authority of the scriptures stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a letter to a deist, in answer to several objections against the truth and authority of the scriptures stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed by w.g. : and are to be sold by m. pitt ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to edward stillingfleet. cf. bm. advertisement: p. 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible -- evidences, authority, etc. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion imprimatur hic liber ( cui titulus , a letter to a deist . ) feb. . . guil. jane , r. p. d. henr. episc. lond. a sacris domest . a letter to a deist , in answer to several objections against the truth and authority of the scriptures , london , printed by w. g. and are to be sold by m. pitt , at the angel in st. paul's church-yard , . the preface . this following discourse was written for the satisfaction of a particular person , who owned the being and providence of god , but expressed a mean esteem of the scriptures , and the christian religion . which is become so common a theme among the scepticks of this age , that the author of this discourse thought it worth his time and care , to consider the force of the objections that were made against them . especially , being written in a grave and serious manner , and not with that raillery and buffonry , which the rude persons of this age commonly bestow upon religion . it might be justly expected from such who pretend to breeding and civility , that they would at least shew more respect to a thing , which hath prevailed so much among men of the best understanding and education , and who have had no interest to carry on by it . for it is against the ordinary rules of conversation , to affront that which others think they have great reason to esteem and love ; and they would not endure that scorn and contempt of their meanest servant , which they too often shew towards religion , and the things belonging to it . if they are not in earnest when they scoff and mock at sacred things , their own consciences will tell them it is a horrible impiety ; if they are in earnest , let them debate these things calmly and seriously , and let the stronger reason prevail . men may speak sharply and wittily against the clearest things in the world , as the scepticks of old did against all certainty of sense and reason ; but we should think that man out of his senses , that would now dispute the being of the sun , or the colour of the snow . we do not say , the matters of religion are capable of the same evidence with that of sense ; but it is a great part of judgment and understanding , to know the proportion and fitness of evidence to the nature of the thing to be proved . they would not have the eye to judge of tasts , nor the nose of metaphysicks ; and yet these would be as proper as to have the senses judge of immaterial beings . if we do not give as good reason for the principles of our religion , as the nature of religion considered , can be given for it , let us then be blamed for our weakness in defending it ; but let not religion suffer , till they are sure nothing more can be said for it . there is a late author , i hear is mightily in vogue among many , who cry up any thing on the atheistical side , though never so weak and trifling . it were no difficult task to lay open the false reasonings , and inconsistent hypotheses of his book ; which hath been sufficiently done already in that language wherein it was written . but if for the advancement of irreligion among us , that book be , as it is talked , translated into our tongue , there will not , i hope , want those who will be as ready to defend religion and morality , as others are to decry and despise them . a letter of resolution to a person unsatisfied about the truth and authority of the scriptures . sir , although i do not pretend to any skill in the depths of theology , yet i am heartily concerned for the truth and honour of the christian religion ; which it is the design of your papers to undermine . when i first looked them over , i could not think them so considerable as to deserve a particular answer ; especially , from one in my circumstances , who have so much other business lying upon me , and so little leisure and health to perform it ; but i found at the conclusion of your papers , so earnest and vehement a desire expressed by you , that i would return an answer , in order to the settlement of your mind , that i could not refuse an office of so great charity , as you represent it to be . i confess , when i considered the nature of your objections , and the manner of managing them , i could hardly believe that they proceeded from a doubtful mind , that was desirous of any satisfaction ; but since you tell me so , i will first shew my charity in believing it , and then in endeavouring to give you my poor assistance , and impartial advice , in order to your satisfaction . and in truth , i think impartial advice will contribute more to that end , than spending time and paper in running through all the difficulties , which it is possible for a cavilling mind to raise against the plainest truths in the world. for there is nothing so clear and evident , but a sophistical wit will always find something to say against it , and if you be the person i take you for , you very well know , that there have been some , who wanted neither wit , nor eloquence , who have gone about to prove , that there was nothing in the world ; and that if there were any thing , it could not be understood by men ; that if it were understood by one man , it could not be expressed to another : and besides such extravagant undertakers as these , how many have there been , who with plausible and subtle arguments , have endeavoured to overthrow all manner of certainty , either by sense or reason ? must we therefore quit all pretences to certainty , because we cannot , it may be , answer all the subtilties of the scepticks ? and therefore i am by no means satisfied with your manner of proceeding , desiring all particular difficulties to be answer'd , before we consider the main evidences of the christian faith : for the only reasonable way of proceeding in this matter , is to consider , first , whether there be sufficient motives to perswade you to imbrace the christian faith ; and then to weigh the difficulties , and to compare them with the reasons and arguments for believing ; and if those do not appear great enough to overthrow the force of the other , you may rest satisfied in the christian faith , although you cannot answer every difficulty that may be raised against the books wherein our religion is contained . i pray sir , consider with your self ; do not you think it possible for any man to have faith enough to save him , unless he can solve all the difficulties in chr●●ologie that are in the bible , unless he can give an account of every particular law and custom among the jews , unless he can make out all the prophetick schemes , and can tell what the number of the beast in the apocalypse means ? if a man may believe and be saved , without these things , to what purpose are they objected for the overthrow of the christian faith ? do you think a man hath not reason enough to believe there is extended matter in the world , unless he can solve all the difficulties that arise from the extension or divisibility of matter ; or that he hath a soul , unless he can make it clear how an immaterial and material substance can be so united as our soul and body are ? or that the sun shines , unless he can demonstrate whether the sun or the earth moves ? or that we have any certainty of things , unless he can assign the undoubted criterion of truth and falshood in all things ? these things i mention on purpose , to let you see , that the most certain things , have difficulties about them , which no one thinks it necessary for him to answer , in order to his assurance of the truth of the things ; but as long as the evidence for them is much more considerable than the objections against them , we may safely acquiesce in our assent to them , and leave the unfolding these difficulties to the disputers of this world , or the knowledge of another . is it not far more reasonable for us to think , that in books of so great antiquity , as those of moses are , written in a language whose idiotisms are so different from ours , there may be some difficulty in the phrases , or computation of times or customs of the people , that we cannot well understand , than that all the miracles wrought by moses should have been impostures ; and that law , which was preserved so constantly , maintained with that resolution by the wisest of the people of the jews , who chose to dye rather than disown it , should be all a cheat ? is it not more reasonable for us to suspect our own understandings , as to the speeches and actions of some of the prophets , than to think that men who designed so much the advancing virtue , and discouraging vice , should be a pack of hypocrites and deceivers ? can any man of common sense suspect the christian religion to be a fourb , or an imposture , because he cannot understand the number of the beast , or interpret the apocalyptick visions ? i could hardly have believed any man pretending to reason , could object these things , unless i saw them , and were called upon to answer them . therefore , sir , my serious and impartial advice to you is , in the first place to consider and debate the main point , i. e. the proofs of the christian doctrin , and not to hunt up and down the scriptures for every thing that seems a difficulty to you , and then by heaping all these together to make the scriptures seem a confused heap of indigested stuff , which being taken in pieces and considered , with that modesty , diligence , and care , that doth become us , will appear to contain nothing unbecoming that sacred and venerable name which the scriptures do bear among us . if therefore , you design not cavilling but satisfaction , you will joyn issue with me upon the most material point , viz. whether the christian religion were from god , or from men ? for if this be proved to have been from god , all the other things will easily fall off of themselves , or be removed with a little industry . in the debate of this , i shall consider , first , what things are agreed upon between us , and then wherein the difference lies . . you grant an absolutely perfect and independent being , whom we call god. . that the world was at first created , and is still governed by him. . that he is so holy , as to be the author of no sin , although he doth not hinder men from sinning . . that this god is to receive from us all worship proper to him , of prayers , praises , &c. . that it is the will of this god , that we should lead holy , peaceable , and innocent lives . . that god will accept mens sincere repentance and hearty endeavours to do his will , although they do not perfectly obey it . . that there is a state of rewards and punishments in another world , according to the course of mens lives here . . that there are many excellent precepts in the writings of the new testament inducing to humility and selfdenyal , and to the honour of god , and civil duty and honesty of life ; and these in a more plentiful manner than is to be found in any other profession of religion publickly known . the questions then remaining , are , ( ) whether the matters of fact are true , which are reported in the writings of the new testament ? ( ) supposing them true , whether they do sufficiently prove the doctrin to have been from god ? . whether the matters of fact were true or no ? and as to this point , i wish you had set down the reasons of your doubting , more clearly and distinctly than you have done : what i can pick up , amounts to these things . . that there can be no certainty of a matter done at such a distance of time , there having been many fictitious histories in the world. . that it is probable , that these things might be written , when there was no one living to detect the falshood of them ; and thus you say , the grecians , romans , egyptians , and other nations were at first imposed upon by some men , who pretended to deliver to them the history of their gods and heroes , and the wonders wrought by them . . that these things might more easily be done , before printing was used ; and that there is reason to suspect the more , because of the pious frauds of the primitive christians , and the legends of the papists . . that there may have been many more deceptions and impostures in the way of propagating false revelations and miracles than we can now discover . . that we ought not to take the testimony of scripture , or the christian writers in this case , because they may be suspected of partiality ; and that the testimony of josephus is suspected by divers learned men to be fraudulently put in by christians . . that there are susficient grounds from the story it self , and the objections of enemies to suspect the truth of it ; because of the contradiction and inconsistency of the parts of it ; the want of accomplishment of the promises and prophecies of it ; the obscurity and unintelligibleness of other parts ; the defects of the persons mentioned therein , st. paul 's oftentation , the jarrs between peter and paul , and paul and barnabas . . that from these things you have just cause to doubt the apostles sincerity , and you think they might have indirect ends in divulging the miracles recorded in scripture ; and that men might be contented to suffer , to make themselves heads of a new sect of religion , and to rule over the consciences of men ; and that they had time enough to make a considerable interest before the persecutions began . this is the force of all i can find out , in the several parts of your papers towards the invalidating the testimony concerning the matters of fact reported in the writings of the new testament . in answer to all these things , i shall shew ; . that matters of fact done at such a distance of time may have sufficient evidence to oblige men to believe them . . that there is no reason to suspect the truth of those matters of fact which are contained in the history of the new testament . . that the apostles gave the greatest testimonies of their sincerity , that could be expected from them ; and that no matters of fact were ever better attested than those which are reported by them ; from whence it will follow , that it is not reason but unreasonable suspicion and scepticism , if not willfulness and obstinacy which makes men to continue to doubt after so great evidence . . that we may have such evidence of matters of fact done at such a distance of time as may oblige us to believe the truth of them . this we are first to make out , because several of your objections seem to imply , that we can have no certainty of such things ; because we cannot know what tricks may have been plaid in former times , when it was far more easie to deceive ; and that it is confessed , there have been several frauds of this kind , which have a long time prevailed in the world. but have not the very same arguments been used against all religion , by atheists ? and if the cheats that have been in religion , have no force against the being of god , why should they have any against the christian religion ? and if the common consent of mankind signifie any thing as to the acknowledgement of a deity , why should not the testimony of the christian church , so circumstantiated as it is , be of sufficient strength to receive the matters of fact delivered by it ? which is all i at present desire . do we question any of the stories delivered by the common consent of greek or latin historians , although we have only the bare testimony of those historians for them ? and yet your objections would lye against every one of them : how do we know the great prevalency of the roman empire ? was it not delivered by those who belonged to it , and were concerned to make the best of it ? what know we , but thousands of histories have been lost , that confuted all that we now have concerning the greatness of rome ? what know we , but that rome was destroyed by carthage , or that hanniba● quite overthrew the roman empire ; or that catiline was one o● the best men in the world , because all our present historie● were written by men of the other side ? how can we tell bu● that the persians destroyed th● macedonians , because all our accounts of alexanders expeditio● are originally from the greeks and why might not we suspec● greater partiality in all these cases , when the writers did not giv● a thousand part of that evidenc● for their fidelity , that the firs● christians did ? and yet , wha● should we think of such a perso● who should call in question th● best histories of all nations because they are written by thos● of the same countrey ? by whic● it seems , you will never allow any competent testimony at all ; for if such things be written by enemies and strangers , we have reason to suspect both their knowledge and integ●ity ; if written by friends , then though they might know the truth , yet they would write partially of their own side : so that upon this principle , no history at all , ancient or modern is to be believed ; for they are all reported either by friends or enemies : and so not only divine , but all humane faith will be destroyed . i am by no means a friend to unreasonable credulity ; but i am as little to unreasonable distrust and suspicion ; if the one be folly , the other is madness . no prudent man believes any thing , because it is possible to be true ; nor rejects any thing meerly because it is possible to be false : but it is the prudence of every man to weigh and consider all circumstances , and according to them , to assent , or dissent . we all know it is possible for men to deceive , or to be deceived , but we know there is no necessity of either ; and that there is such a thing as truth in the world ; and though men may deceive , yet they do not always so ; and that men may know they are not deceived . for else there could be no such thing as society among mankind ; no friendship , or trust , or confidence in the word of another person ; because it is possible that the best friend i have may deceive me , and the world is full of dissimulation , must i therefore believe no body ? this is the just consequence of this way of arguing , that we have reason to suspect the truth of these matters of fact , because there have been many frauds in the world , and might have been many more than we can now discover ; for if this principle be pursued , it will destroy all society among men ; which is built on the supposition of mutual trust and confidence that men have in each other : and although it be possible for all men to deceive , because we cannot know one anothers hearts , yet there are such characters of honesty and fidelity in some persons , that others dare venture their lives and fortunes upon their words . and is any man thought a fool for doing so ? nay , have not the most prudent and sagacious men reposed a mighty confidence in the integrity of others ? and without this , no great affairs can be carried on in the world ; for since the greatest persons need the help of others to manage their business , they must trust other men continually ; and every man puts his life into the hands of others , to whom he gives any freedome of access , and especially his servants : must a man therefore live in continual suspicion and jealousie , because it is possible he may be deceived ? but if this be thought unreasonable , then we gain thus much , that notwithstanding the possibility of deception , men may be trusted in some cases , and their fidelity safely relied upon : this being granted , we are to enquire what that assurance is which makes us trust any one ; and whereever we find a concurrence of the same circumstances , or equal evidence of fidelity , we may repose the same trust or confidence in them . and we may soon find that it is not any ones bare word that makes us trust him ; but either the reputation of his integrity among discerning men ; or our long experience and observation of him : this latter is only confined to our own tryal ; but the former is more general , and reaches beyond our own age , since we may have the testimony of discerning persons convey'd down to us in as certain a manner , as we can know the mind of a friend at a miles distance , viz. by writing . and in this case , we desire no more than to be satisfied that those things were written by them ; and that they deserved to be believed in what they writ ; thus , if any one would be satisfied about the passages of the peloponnesian war , and hath heard that thucydides hath accurately written it , he hath no more to do , than to enquire whether this thucydides were capable of giving a good account of it , and for that , he hears that he was a great and inquisitive person , that lived in that age , and knew all the occurrences of it ; and when he is satisfied of that , his next enquiry is , whether he may be trusted or no ; and for this , he can expect no better satisfaction , than that his history hath been in great reputation for its integrity among the most knowing persons ; but how shall he be sure this was the history , written by thucydides , since there have been many counterfeit writings obtruded upon the world ? besides the consent of learned men in all ages since , we may compare the testimonies cited out of it with the history we have , and the style , with the character given of thucydides , and the narrations , with other credible histories of those times ; and if all these agree , what reason can there be not to rely upon the history of thucydides ? all learned men do acknowledge , that there have been multitudes of fictitious writings , but do they therefore question , whether there are any genuine ? or whether we have not the true herodotus , strabo , or pausanias , because there is a counterfeit berosus , manetho , and philo , set forth by annius of viterbo ? do any suspect whether we have any of the genuin works of cicero , because an italian counterfeited a book de consolatione in his name or whether caesars commentaries were his own , because it is uncertain who writ the alexandrian war that is joyned with them by which we see , that we may not only be certain of the fidelity of persons we converse with , but of all things necessary to ou● belief of what was done at a great distance of time from th● testimony of writers , notwithstanding the many supposititious writings that have been in the world. but it may be said , that all this only relates to meer matters of history , wherein a man is not mu●h concerned whether they be true or false ; but the things we are about are matters that mens salvation or damnation are ●id to depend upon , and therefore ●reater evidence should be given of these , to oblige men to believe them . to this i answer . . that ●●y design herein , was to prove , ●hat notwithstanding the possibility of deception , there may be sufficient ground for a prudent and firm assent to the truth of things done at as great a distance of time , and convey'd after the same manner , that the matters of fact reported in the new testament are ; and hereby those general prejudices are shewed to be unreasonable : and all that i desire from this discourse is , that you would give an assent of the same nature to the history of the gospel , that you do to caesar , or livy , or tacitus , or any other ancient historian . . as to the greater obligation to assent , ● say it depends upon the evidence of divine revelation , which i● given by the matters of fac● which are delivered to us . an● here give me leave to ask you ; . whether it be any ways repugnant to any conception you have of god , for him to make use of fallible men to make known his will to the world ? . whether those men , though supposed to be in themselves fallible , can either deceive , or be deceived , when god make● known his mind to them ? . whether on supposition , that god hath made use of such persons for this end , those are not obliged to believe them , who do not live in the same age with them ? if not , then god must either make no revelation at all , or he must make a new one every age : if they are , then the obligation lies as much on us now to believe , as if we had lived and conversed with those inspired persons . . that there is no reason to suspect the truth of those matters of fact which are reported in the new testament ; for since it is universally agreed among men , that humane testimony is a sufficient ground for assent , where there is no positive ground for suspicion ; because deceiving and being deceived , is not the common interest of mankind ; therefore we are to consider what the general grounds of suspicion are , and whether any of them do reach the apostles testimony , concerning the matters of fact reported by them . and the just grounds of suspicion are these . if the persons be otherwis● known to be men of artifice an● cunning , full of tricks and diss●mulation , and that make n● conscience of speaking truth so a lye tends to their greates● advantage ; which is too muc● the papists case in their legends and stories of miracles . . ● they temper and suit their stor● and doctrin to the humour an● genius of the people , they hop● to prevail upon , as mahomet did in encouraging war and lasciviousness . . if they lay the scene o● their story at a mighty distance from themselves , at such an age , wherein it is impossible either to prove , or disprove ; which is the case of the brachmans , as to their brahmà , and their veda ; and was of the heathens as to their fabulous deities . . if there be any thing contained in the story , which is repugnant to the most authentick histories of those times ; by which means the impostures of annius have been discovered . . if there be evident contradiction in the story it self ; or any thing repugnant to , or unbecoming the majesty , holiness , sincerity , and consistency of a divine revelation ; on which account we reject fanatick pretences to revelations . if there were any thing of this nature in the writings of the new testament , we might then allow there were some ground to suspect the truth of what is contained therein : but i shall undertake , by the grace of god , to defend that there is not any foundation for suspicion as to any one of these . . as to the persons , such wh● go about to deceive others , mus● be men that are versed in business and know how to deal with men ; and that have some interest already that they have gained by other means , before they can carry on such a design as to abuse mankind , by lyes and impostures in religion : therefore the atheists lay the deceiving the world by religion , to the charge of politicians and law-givers , to men versed in the practice of fraud , such as numa , or lycurgus , or xaca , or mahomet , such as understood the ways of cajoling the people ; or to subtle priests , that know how to suit the hopes and fears of the superstitious multitude ; whence came the multitude of frauds in the heathen temples and oracles . but would any man in the world have pitched upon a few fishermen , and illiterate persons , to carry on such an intrigue as this ? men that were rude and unexperienced in the world , and uncapable of dealing in the way of artifice with one of the common citizens of hierusalem . when was it ever heard that such men made such an alteration in the religion of the world , as the primitive christians did , against the most violent persecutions ? and when they prevailed so much , the common charge still against them was , that they were a company of rude , mean , obscure , illiterate , simple men : and yet in spight of all the cunning , and malice , and learning , and strength of their adversaries , they gained ground upon them , and prevailed over the obstinacy of the jews , an● wisdom of the greeks . if th● christian religion had been a mee● design of the apostles to mak● themselves heads of a new sect what had this been but to hav● set the cunning of twelve , o● thirteen men , of no interest or reputation , against the wisdom and power of the whol● world ? if they had any wisdom they would never have unde● taken such an impossible desig● as this must appear to them ● first view : and if they ha● none , how could they ever hop● to manage it ? if their aim wer● only at reputation , they migh● have thought of thousands ● ways more probable , and mor● advantageous than this : if w● suppose men should be willin● to hazard their lives for the● reputations , we may suppose withall such men to have so much cunning as not to do it till they cannot help it ; but if they can have reputation and ease together , they had rather have it . i will therefore put the case concerning the only person that had the advantage of a learned education among the apostles ; viz. st. paul , and whom you seem to strike at more than the rest : is it reasonable to believe , that when he was in favour with the sanhedrin , and was likely to advance himself by his opposition to christianity , and had a fair prospect of ease and honour together ; he should quit all this , to joyn with such an inconsiderable and hated company , as the christians were , only to be one of the heads of a very small number of men , and to purchase it at so dear a rate as th● loss of his friends and interest and running on continual troubles and persecutions , to the hazard of his life ? it is possibl● for men that are deceived an● mean honestly to do this ; bu● it is scarce supposable of a ma● in his senses that should kno● and believe all this to be a cheat and yet own and embrace it , to s● great disadvantage to himself when he could not make himsel● so considerable by it , as he migh● have been without it . me● must love cheating the world at strange rate , that will let go fai● hopes of preferment and ease and lead a life of perpetual trouble , and expose themselves to the utmost hazards , only for the sake of deluding others . if the apostles knew all they said to be false , and made it so necessary for all men to believe what they said to be true ; they were some of the greatest deceivers which the world had ever known : but men that take pleasure in deceiving , make use of many artifices on purpose to catch the silly multitude ; they have all the arts of insinuation and fawning speeches , fit to draw in the weakest , and such as love to be flatter'd ; but what is there tending this way in all the apostles writings ? how sharply do they speak to the jewish sanhedrin , upon the murther of christ ? with what plainness and simplicity do they go about to perswade men to be christians ? they barely tell the matters of fact concerning the resurrection of christ , and say they were eye-witnesses of it , and upon the credit of this testimony of theirs , they preach faith and repentance to jews , and gentiles : was ever any thing farther from the appearance of artifice than this was ? so that if they were deceivers , they were some of the subtilest that ever were in the world , because there seems to be so little ground for any suspicion of fraud ; and we cannot easily imagin persons of their education , capable of so profound dissimulation and so artificial a cheat. besides all this , we are to consider how far such persons do allow the liberty of dissimulation and artificial juglings , especially in religion ; we see the papists could not practice these things , without being forced to defend them , by shewing how convenient it is for the people to be told strange stories of saints , on purpose to nourish devotion in them : to which end , they say , it signifies not much , whether they were true or no : and withall they assert the lawfulness of equivocations , and mental reservations , and doing things , not otherwise justifiable , for the honour of their church and religion ; and i shall freely confess to you , if i found any countenance to such things as these , from the doctrin or practice of the apostles , it would give me too just a ground for suspicion as to what they deliver'd . for if they allowed equivocations , or mental reservations , how could i possibly know what they meant by any thing they said ? for that which was necessary to make the proposition true , lay without my reach in the mind of another ; and while they so firmly attested that christ was risen from the dead , they might understand it of a spiritual or mystical resurrection ; but if they should be found to allow lying or cheating for the cause of religion , their credit would be gone with me ; for how could i be any longer sure of the truth of one word they said ? i should be so far from thinking them infallible , that i could not but suspect them to have a design to deceive me . the first thing therefore we are to look at in persons who require our belief , is the strictest veracity ; if they falter in this , they expose themselves to the suspicion of all but credulous fools . but we no where find greater plainness and sincerity required , no where more strict and severe prohibitions of dissimulation in religion , nor more general precepts about speaking truth , than in the writings of the new testament . but might not all this be done with the greater artifice to prevent suspicion ? suspicion is a thing , which he that set bounds to the sea , can set no bounds to ; if men will give way to it , without reason , there can be no end of it . for the most effectual ways to prevent it , will still afford new matter and occasion for it . if men do use the utmost means that are possible , to assure others of their sincerity , and they will not believe them , but still suspect the design to be so much deeper laid ; there is no way left possible to satisfy such men ; their suspicion is a disease incurable by rational means , and such persons deserve to be given over as past all remedy . if men act like prudent men , they will judge according to the reason of things ; but if they entertain a jealousie of all mankind , and the most of those who give them the greatest assurance they have no intention to deceive them , it is to no purpose to go about to satisfie such persons , for that very undertaking makes them more suspicious . if the apostles therefore gave as much ground as ever any persons did , or could do , that they had no design to impose upon the world , but proceeding with all the fairness and openness , with the greatest evidence of their sincerity , there can be no reason to fasten upon them the imputation of cunning men who made it their business to deceive others . . this will more appear if we consider the matters deliver'd by them , and the nature of their doctrin . for if the christian religion were only a contrivance of the first preachers of it , it must by the event be supposed that they were very subtle men , who in so little time , and against so great opposition could prevail over both jews and gentiles ; but if we reflect on the nature of their doctrin , we can never imagin that these men did proceed by the same methods that men of subtilty do make use of . if it were there own contrivance , it was in their power to have framed it as they thought fit themselves ; and in all probability , they would have done it in a way most likely to be successful ; but the christian religion was so far from it , as though they had industriously designed to advance a religion against the genius and inclination of all mankind . for it neither gratifies the voluptuous in their pleasures , nor the ambitious in their desires of external pomp and greatness , nor the covetous in their thirst after riches ; but lays a severe restraint on all those common and prevailing passions of mankind ; which mahomet well understood , when he suited his religion to them . christianity was neither accommodated to the temper and genius either of jews or gentiles : the jews were in great expectation of a temporal prince at that time to deliver them from the roman slavery ; and every one that would have set up for such a messias , might have had followers enough among them , as we find afterwards by the attempts of barchocebas and others . but the messias of the christians was so directly contrary to their hopes and expectations , being a poor and suffering prince , that this set them the more against his followers , because they were hereby frustrated of their greatest hopes , and defeated in their most pleasing expectations : but besides , if they would have taken in the mosaick law , it might in probability have succeeded better ; but this st. paul would by no means hear of . but if they rejected the jews , methinks they should have been willing to have had some assistance from the gentiles . no , they charged them with idolatry where ever they came , and would not joyn in any parts of their worship with them ; nor so much as eat of the remainder of their sacrifices . but supposing they had a mind to set up wholly a new sect of their own ; yet we should think they should have framed it after the most plausible manner , and left out all things thar were most liable to reproach and infamy : but this they were so far from , that the most contemptible part of the christian religion , viz. a crucified saviour , they insist the most upon , and preach it on all occasions , and in comparison of it , strangely despise all the wisdom and philosophy of the greeks . what did these men mean , if christianity had been only a contrivance of theirs ? if they had but left out this one circumstance , in all human probability , the excellent moral precepts in christianity would have been highly magnified among all those who had been bred up under the instructions of philosophers . nay , they would not make use of the most commendable methods of humane wisdom ; nor do as the jesuits have done in china , make men have a better opinion of the religion they brought , for their skill in mathematicks and astronomy ; but as much as it was possible , to let the world see it was no contrivance of humane wisdom , they shunned all the ways of shewing it in the manner of its propagation . nay , when the people would have given the apostles divine worship , never were vain men more concerned to have it , than they to oppose it ; and do these things look like the actions of men that designed only to make themselves great , by being the heads of a new sect of religion ? . men that made it their design to deceive the world , if they had thought it necessary to bring in any matter of story concerning the author of their religion would have placed it at such a distance of time , that it was not capable of being disproved : as it is apparent in the heathen mythologie ; for the stories were such , as no person could ever pretend to confute them otherwise than by the inconsistency of them with the common principles of religion . but if we suppose christianity to have been a meer device , would the apostles have been so senseless to have laid the main proof of their religion on a thing which was but newly acted , and which they were very capable of enquiring into all the circumstances that related to it , viz. the resurrection of christ from the dead . we may see by the whole design of the new testament , the great stress of christianity was laid upon the truth of this ; to this , christ himself appealed before hand : to this all the apostles refer as the mighty confirmation of their religion ; and this they deliver as a thing which themselves had seen , and had conversed with him for days together , with all the demonstrations imaginable of a true and real body : and that not to one or two credulous . persons , but so many of them who were hard to be satisfied , and one , not without the most sensible evidence , but besides these , they tell us of at once who saw him , whereof many were then living when those things were written . now i pray tell me what religion in the world ever put it self upon so fair a tryal as this ? of a plain matter of fact as capable of being attested as any could be . why did not amida , or brahma or xaca , or any other of the authors of the present religions of the east indies ? why did not orpheus , or numa , or any other introducers of religious customa among the greeks or romans ? or mahomet among the arabians put the issue of the truth of their religion on such a plain and easie tryal as this ? if you say that christ appeared only to his friends , who were ready to believe such things , and not among his enemies : i answer , that though they were his friends , yet they were very hard to be perswaded of the truth of it at first ; and afterwards gave larger testimonies of their fidelity than the testimony of the greatest enemies would have been ; for we should have had only their bare words for it , ( if they would have given that , which is very questionable , considering their dealing with the other miracles of christ : ) but the apostles manifested their sincerity by all real proofs that could be thought sufficient to satisfie mankind ; appealing to the very persons who were concerned the most in it , having a hand in the death of christ , declaring their greatest readiness to suffer any thing rather than deny the truth of it , and laying down their lives at last for it . if all this had been a meer fiction , how unlikely is it , that among so many as were conscious of it , no one person by hopes or fears , by flatteries or threatnings , could ever be prevailed upon to deny the truth of it . if there had been any such thing , what triumphing had there been among the jews ; and no doubt his name had been recorded to posterity among the writers both of jew● and gentiles that were professed enemies of christianity . but they are all wonderfully silent in this matter ; and instead o● saying enough to overthrow the truth of christianity , as you seem to suggest , i do assure you , i am mightily confirmed in the belief of the truth of it , by carefully observing the slightness of the objections that were made against it , by its most professed enemies . but you seem to imply , that all this story concerning christ was invented long after the pretended time of his being in the world , why may not you as well suspect , that julius caesar lived before romulus ; or that augustus lived at the seige of troy ? for you might as well reject all history upon such grounds as those you assign ; and think mahomet as right in his chronology , as the bible . it is time for us to burn all our books , if we have lived in such a cheat all this while . methinks you might as well ask , whether lucretia were not pope joan ? or alexander the sixth , one of the roman emperours ? or whether luther were not the emperour of turky ? for there is no greater evidence of any history in the world , than there is , that all the things reported in the new testament were done at that time , when they are pretended to be . . therefore we offer this story of the new testament to be compared with all the circumstances of that age , delivered by any other historians , to try if any inconsistencies can be found therein : which is the most reasonable way can be taken to disprove any history . if it could be proved , that there could be no such taxation of the empire as is mention'd in the time of augustus , that herod did not live in that age , or that the jews were not under the roman government , or that there were no high priests at that time , nor the sects of pharisees and saducees , or that there were any other remarkable characters of time set down in the history of the new testament , which could be manifestly disproved ; there were some pretence to call in question the truth of the story ; but there is not the least foundation for any scruple on this account ; all things agreeing so well with the truest accounts we have of that age , both from josephus and the roman historie . i shall not insist on the particular testimony of josephus concerning christ , because we need it not ; and if those who question it , would proceed with the same severity against many other particular passages in good authors , they might as well call them in question as they do that ; since it is confessed , that all the ancient manuscripts have it in them , and supposing that it doth not come in well , must we suppose it impossible for josephus to write incoherently ? yet this is the main argument that ever i have seen urged against this testimony of josephus . but i say , we need it not ; all other things concurring in so high a degree to prove the truth of the history of christ. yet since you seem to express so much doubtfulness concerning it , as though it were framed when there was no one living capable of disproving it ; give me leave to shew you the great absurdity of such a supposition . . because we have the plain testimonies of the greatest enemies of christianity , that there was such a person as christ was , who suffered according to the scripture story . for tacitus not only mentions the christians as suffering at rome for their religion in the time of nero , ( annal. . ) but saith , that the author of this religion was one christ , who suffered under pontius pilate , procurator of judea , in the time of tiberius ; which is an irrefragable testimony of the truth of the story concerning christ , in an age , when if it had been false , nothing could have been more easily detected than such a fiction , by the number of jews which were continually at rome : and neither julian , nor celsus , nor porphyrie , nor lucian did ever question the truth of the story it self ; but only upbraided the christians for attributing too much to christ. . if there were really such a person as christ was , who suffered as tacitus saith , then the whole story could not be a fiction , but only some part of it ; and these additional parts must either be contrived by the apostles , or after their time : not after their time , for then they must be added after christianity was received in the world , for that , as appears by tacitus , was spread in the apostles times as far as rome ; and if these parts were not received with it ; the cheat would presently have been discover'd as soon as broached , by those who had embraced christianity before : and besides , tertullian in his time appeals to the authentick writings of the apostles themselves , which were then extant , wherein the same things were contained , that we now believe : if these things then were forged , it must be by the apostles themselves ; and i dare now appeal to you , whether ever any story was better capable of being disproved than this was , if it had not been true , since it was published in that very time and place , where the persons were living , who were most concerned to disprove it : as appears by the hatred of the jews to the christians , both then and ever since : which is a very observable circumstance for proving the truth of christian religion ; for the jews and christians agreed in the divine revelations of old , the christians believed moreover , that christ was the messias promised ; this christ lived and dyed among the jews his enemies ; his apostles preached , and wrought miracles among their most inveterate enemies , which men that go about to deceive never care to do : and to this day the jews do not deny the matters of fact , but look on them as insufficient to prove jesus of nazareth to have been the messias : nay , mahomet himself , who in all probability would have overthrown the whole story of the new testament , if he could have done it with any colour , yet speaks very honourably of christ and of the great things which were said and done by him . . that there is nothing in the christian religion , unbecoming the majesty , or holiness , or truth of a divine revelation . as to the precepts , you acknowledge their excellency ; and the promises chiefly refer either to divine grace , or future glory ; and what is there herein unbecoming god ? and as to what concerns the truth of it , we have as great characters of that throughout , as it is possible for us to expect ; there appearing so much simplicity , sincerity , candour , and agreement in all the parts of it . some men would have been better pleased , it may be , if it had been all written by one person , and digested into a more exact method , and set forth with all the lights and ornaments of speech . this would have better become an invention of men , but not a revelation of god : plainness and simplicity have a natural greatness above art and subtilty ; and therefore god made choice of many to write , and at several times , that by comparing them we may see how far they were from contriving together , and yet how exactly they agree in all things which men are concerned to believe . but you say , we have many infirmities of the apostles discovered therein , their heats and animosities one against another . but i pray consider ; . how came you to know these things ; is it not by their own writings ? and if they had been such , who minded only their applause , had it not been as easie to have concealed these things , and would they not certainly have done it , if that had been their aim ? if st. paul seems to boast , doth he not do it , with that constraint to himself , as a man that is forced to do it for his own vindication against malicious enemies ? and who ever denyed a man of a generous mind the liberty of speaking for himself ? . but suppose they had infirmities and heats among them ; doth this prove that god could not make use of them as his instruments to declare his truth to the world ? then it will follow , that god must never reveal his will by men , but by voices from heaven , or angels , or the assumption of the humane nature by the divine . but , if god be not denyed the liberty of imploying meer men , we cannot find so great evidences of piety and zeal , of humility and self-denyal , of patience and magnanimity , of innocency and universal charity in any men as were in the apostles ; and therefore did appear with the most proper characters of embassadors from heaven . and i dare venture the comparison of them with the best philosophers , as to the greatest and most excellent virtues , for which they were the most admired ; notwithstanding the mighty difference as to their education ; allowing but the same truth as to the story of the new testament , which we yield to xenophon , or diogenes laertius , or any other writers concerning them . but what is it then which you object against the writings of the new testament , to make them inconsistent with the wisdom of god ? i find but two things in the papers you sent me . . want of the continuance of the power of miracles , which you say is promised . mark . . . the number of the beast in the revelations . but , good sir , consider , what it is to call in question a divine revelation for such objections as these are ? must there be no revelation , unless you understand every prophecy , or the extent of every promise ? be not so injurious to your own soul , for the sake of such objections , to cast away the great assurance which the christian religion gives us , as to the pardon of sin upon repentance here , and eternal happiness in another world. would you reject all the writings of plato , because you do no more understand some part of his timaeus than the number of ? you must have a very nice faith , that can bear with no difficulties at all , so that if there be but one or two hard things that you cannot digest , you must throw up all the best food you have taken ; at this rate you must starve your body , as well as ruin your soul. but of these places afterwards . . i have hitherto removed the grounds of suspicion , i now come to shew the positive testimonies of their sincerity which the apostles shewed , which were greater than were ever given to any other matter of fact in the world. i will then suppose the whole truth of the christian doctrine to be reduced to this one matter of fact , whether christ did rise from the dead or no ? for ( as i have said already ) it is plain , the apostles put the main force of all that they said upon the truth of this ; and often declared , that they were appointed to be the witnesses of this thing . now ●et us consider how it is possible ●or men to give the highest assurance of their sincerity to others ; and that must be either by giving the utmost testimony that men ●an give ; or by giving some testimony above that of men , which cannot deceive , which is the testimony of god. . they gave the utmost testimony that meer men could give of their fidelity . i know no bet●er way we have for a full assurance as to any humane testimony , than to consider what those circumstances are which are generally allowed to accompany truth , and if we have the concurrence of all these , we have as much as can be expected : for nothing● that depends on testi●ony can be proved by mathematical demonstration . but notwithstanding the want of this , eithe● we may have sufficient ground to assent to truth upon testimony , o● there can be no difference known between truth and falshood by humane testimony ; which overthrows all judicial proceeding● among men ; the justice whereof doth suppose not only the veracity of humane testimony ; bu● that it may be so discerned by others , that they may safely rely upon it . now the main thing to be regarded as to the truth o● humane testimony are these . . i● men testifie nothing but wha● they saw . . if they testifie i● at no long distance of time from the thing done . . if they testifie it plainly , and withou● doubtful expressions . . if a great number agree in the same testimony . . if they part with all that is valuable to mankind , rather than deny the truth of what they have testified : and where all these concur , it is hardly possible to suppose greater evidence to be given of the truth of a thing ; and now i shall shew that all these do exactly agree to the apostles testimony concerning the resurrection of christ. . they testified nothing but what they saw themselves . the laws of nations do suppose that greater credit is to be given to eye witnesses than to any others , thence the rule in the civil law testimonium de auditu regulariter non valet : because , say the civilians and canonists , witnesses are to testifie the truth , and not barely the possibility of things ; that which men see , they can testifie whether they are or not : that which men only hear , may be , or no● be ; and their testimony is no● of the fact , but is looked on as more uncertain , and ought to have greater allowances given it ; but the apostles testified only what they saw and handled ; and that after the most scrupulous enquiry into the truth of christ body , and after many doubts an● suspicions among themselves abou● it ; so that they did not seem hastily and rashly to believe what they afterwards declared to the world. now a body was a proper object of sense , and no tryal could be greater , or more accurate than theirs was ; nor an● satisfaction fuller than putting their fingers into the very wound of the pierced side . . they did not stay till the circumstances might have slipt out of their memories , before they testified these things ; but very soon after , while the impression of them was fresh upon them : if they had let these matters alone for any long time , the jews would have asked them presently , if these things were true , why did we not hear of them as soon as they were done ? therefore we see the apostles on the very day of pentecost , a little after christs ascension to heaven , openly and boldly declare the truth of these things , not in private corners among a few friends , but in the most solemn meeting of their nation from all parts ; which was the worst time could have been chosen , if they had any intention to deceive . . they testifie it in as plain a manner as is possible , on purpose to prevent all mistakes of their meaning , this jesus hath god raised up , whereof we all are witnesses ; therefore let all the house of israel know assuredly , that god hath made that same jesus , whom ye have crucified , both lord and christ. men that had a mind to deceive would have used some more general and doubtful words , than these were . . if this had been testified by one single witness , the world would have suspected the truth of his testimony ; for according to the rule in the civil law in the case of testimony , vox unius , vox nullius est : but this was testified by very many ; not meerly by the twelve apostles , but by at once ; among whom some might be supposed to have so much honesty , or at least capable of being perswaded to have discovered the imposture , if they had in the least suspected any . . but that which adds the greatest weight to all this , is , that there was not one of all the apostles , and scarce any one of the rest , but exposed themselves to the utmost hazards and dangers , rather than deny or retract the truth of what they witnessed . if the people had been careless and indifferent about religion , it is possible men might have gone on in a lye so long till they had gotten interest enough to maintain it ; but no sooner did the apostles appear , witnessing these things , but they met with an early and vigorous opposition , and that from the chiefest men in power , who made it their business to suppress them . now in this case , they were put to this choice , if they would renounce or conceal the truth of what they testified , they might presently enjoy ease , and it may be , rewards too ; but if they went on , they must look for nothing but the sharpest persecution ; and this they met with almost in all places ; and is it conceivable , that men should be so fond of a lye , to forsake all and follow it , and at last to take up their cross for it ? if credit and interest in the hearts of people , might carry a man on a great way in the delusion , yet he would be loth to dye for it ; and yet there was never a one of the apostles , but ventured his life for the truth of this ; and all but one , they tell us , did suffer martyrdom for it . i pray , sir , consider , where you ever meet with any thing like this , that so many men should so resolutely dye , for what themselves at the same time knew to be a lye ; and that they must certainly do , if it were all a contrivance of their own heads . . but although in these things they went as high as it was possible for humane testimony to go , yet they had something beyond all this , which was a concurrence of a divine testimony , in the miraculous gifts and operations of the holy ghost . and this we assert to be the highest testimony can be given in the world , of a truth of any thing ; because god will not employ his power to deceive the world. and as all other truth hath a criterion proper to it ; so this seems to be the proper criterion of a divine testimony , that it hath the power of miracles going along with it . for if we do suppose god to make known his mind to the world , it is very reasonable to believe there should be some distinguishing note of what is immediately from god , and what comes only from the inventions of men ; and what can be more proper to distinguish what comes from god , and what from men , than to see those things done which none but god can do ? but against this you object several things , which i shall easily and briefly answer . . you cannot tell what it is that miracles do attest ; not all their doctrin , since paul said , some was not from the lord. answ. miracles do attest the veracity of the speaker , and by consequence the truth of the doctrin ; not that you should believe that to be from the lord , which he said was not ; but that which he said , was from the lord. but when he makes such a distinction himself , it is very unreasonable to urge that as an argument , that he had nothing from the lord ; it is much rather an argument of his candor and ingenuity , that he would not pretend to divine revelation , when he had it not . . you would have it signified , what doctrin it is which is attested by miracles , since the doctrins of scripture lye in heaps and confusion . answ. to what purpose should any doctrins be singled out to have the seal of miracles set to them , since it is their divine commission to teach and declare the will of god , which is sealed by it ? and what they did so teach and declare , is easily known by their writings . . but why do not miracles still continue ? answ. because there are no persons employ'd to teach any new doctrines ; and no promise of scripture doth imply any more : for the signs which were to follow them that believe , were such as tended to the first confirmation of the christian faith ; which being effected , their use ceased ; and so to ask why god doth not continue a gift of miracles to convince men that the former were true , is to the same purpose as to ask why god doth not make a new sun , to satisfie athiests that he made the old ? . but doth not the scripture say , that wonders are not always to be taken as confirmations of the truth of doctrin , since false prophets may work wonders , deuteron . . . answ. that signifies no more , than that wonders are not to be believed against the principles of natural religion ; or revealed religion already confirmed by greater miracles : and that those who would value such a particular sign above all the series of miracles their religion was first established by , may be justly left to their own delusions . you might as well object the lying wonders of the man of sin , against all the miracles of christ and his apostles . if god hath once done enough to convince men , he may afterwards justly leave them to the tryal of their ingenuity ; as a father that hath used great care to make his son understand true coyn , may afterwards suffer false to be laid before him , to try whether he will mind his being cheated or no ? . but you may yet farther demand , what the testimony of miracles doth signisie to the writings of the new testament ? answ. . the miracles do sufficiently prove the authority of that doctrin , which was delivered by those who wrought miracles ; as christ and his apostles . . if there had been the least ground to question the truth and authority of these writings , they had never been so universally received in those ages , when so many were concerned to enquire into the truth of these things ; for we see several of the books were a long time examined , and at last , when no sufficient reason could be brought against them , they were received by those churches , which at first scrupled the receiving them : and i am so far from thinking the doubts of the first ages any argument against the authority of a book , that by the objections of some against some of them , i am thereby assured , that they did not presently receive any book , because it went under the name of an apostolical writing : as i am the more confirmed in the belief of the resurrection of christ , because some of the disciples were at first very doubtful about it . . you may yet ask , what doth all this signifie to the writings of the old testament , which were written at a longer distance of time from us , and in a more ignorant age of of the world ? answ. there cannot be a more evident proof of the old testament , than by the new : for if the new be true , the old must be so , which was confirmed so plainly and evidently by it ; our saviour and his apostles appealing to moses and the prophets on all occasions . so that the same miracles which prove their testimony true , do at the same time prove the divine authority of the old testament , since it is so expresly said in the new , that holy men of god did speak as they were moved by the holy ghost . but after all this , you urge , that you have discover'd such things in these writings as could not come from god , as . contradictions in them . . something 's inconsistent with the wisdom of god. . promises made that were never fulfilled . . things so obscure as no one can tell the meaning of them . under these four heads i shall examin the particular allegations you bring against the scriptures . . under the head of contradictions , you insist on the prophecy gen. . , , , . made to abraham concerning his posterity ; compared with the accomplishment mentioned , exod. . . . and the force of your argument lyes in this , that the prophecy in genesis doth imply that the servitude of the children of israel in egypt was to be years ; or saith exod. but both these are repugnant to other places of scripture , which make their abode in egypt not to exceed years ; or at the highest , by the number of generations could not exceed years , stretching them to the utmost advantage . to this which you lay so much weight upon , i answer distinctly , . by your own confession , supposing the years to begin from the covenant made with abraham , the accomplishment mentioned , exod. . . doth fall out exactly in the time of the children of israels going out of egypt , for you have proved from scripture , that from the covenant with abraham to jacobs being in egypt , were years ; to which you add , that coath being supposed years old at the going into egypt ; and that at years he begat amram , and that amram at at begat moses , to which moses his years being added , makes up the other years , whereby we have the full years , by your own computation . now , sir , i pray consider what reason you have to charge the scripture with contradiction in a matter your self acknowledges , so exactly accomplished in this way of computation ? . but you say , the words will not bear this ; because they speak of the years to expire in their servitude in egypt . answ. for this we must consider the importance of the words both in genesis and exodus . there is not a word of egypt mentioned in genesis ; but only in general it is said , thy seed shall be a stranger in the land that is not theirs , and shall serve them , and they shall afflict them years ; and it will conduce very much to the right understanding this prophecy to consider the main scope and design of it , which was not to tell abraham how long they should be in servitude to the egyptians , but how long it would be before his seed should come to the possession of the promised land ; and it seems abraham by the question , gen. . . . did expect to have the inheritance of this land in his own time : to this therefore god answers , by telling him , he meant no such thing , but it was intended for his seed , and that not suddenly neither , for they were to tarry till the iniquity of the amorites should be full , which would not be till the fourth generation ; and then his seed should after years , come to the possession of the promised land ; but in the mean time they were to sojourn in a land that was not theirs , and to meet with many hardships and difficulties . this is plainly the scope of this prophecy , and by attending to it , the great objections presently appear without force ; for the land of canaan notwithstanding the promise , was by the patriarchs themselves looked on as a land wherein they were strangers . so abraham saith gen. . . i am a stranger and a sojourner with you ; and which is more remarkable in the blessing of jacob by isaac , to whom the promise was made , it is said ; and give thee the blessing of abraham to thee , and to thy seed , that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger , which god gave unto abraham , gen. . . where the very same word is used concerning jacob , that is expressed in the prophecy , gen. . . so that the patriarchs looked on themselves as strangers in the land of canaan , so long after the promise made , and after the increase of the seed of abraham ▪ and therefore the land of canaan was called terra peregrinationum , the land wherein they were strangers ; gen. . . — . . and when god was calling the people of israel together out of egypt , yet then the land of canaan was called by the very same title , the land of their pilgrimage , wherein they were strangers : exod. . . and ps. . , , , , . where we have a full account of the promise made to abraham , isaac , and jacob , concerning the inheritance of that land it is said , that they were few , and strangers in it , when they went from one nation to another , from one kingdom to another people . which doth fully explain the meaning of the prophecy in genesis , and that it is not to be restrained to the servitude of the people of israel in egypt , but to be understood of their state of pilgrimage for years , wherein they were to suffer great hardships , before they should come to the inheritance of canaan . this is no forced or unnatural exposition of the words , as you seem to suggest ; but to my apprehension , very plain and easie , if we attend to the main scope and design of them which was to acquaint abraham how long it would be before the prophecy were accomplished , and what the condition of his seed should be the mean time , viz. that they should have no land which they should call their own by inheritance all that time , but they should be exposed to great hardships , yea even to servitude ; but that nation whom they should serve , should at last suffer for their ill usage of them , and they should come out of that captivity with great substance ; and all this to be done in the fourth generation of the amorites when their iniquities should be arrived at the full height . all which particulars , were so remarkably accomplished at such a distance of time , and under such improbable circumstances , that that this very prophecy were enough to convince an unprejudiced mind , that it came from divine inspiration . for where do we meet with any thing like this in the histories of other nations ? viz. a prophecy to be accomplished years after , and the very manner foretold , which no humane conjecture could reach to , since the manner of deliverance of the people of israel out of their captivity in egypt , was to all humane appearance so impossible a thing , especially at such a time when the spirits of the people were sunk and broken by so long a slavery : and not only the manner foretold , but the accomplishment happened to a day , according to exodus . . and it came to pass at the end of the years , even the selfe-same day it came to pass , that all the hosts of the lord went out from the land of egypt . but against this you object , that the sojourning is spoken of the children of israel in egypt for years ; which cannot hold good any ways ; since , to make it up , the times of abraham , isaac , and jacob , must be taken in who could not be called the children of israel . answ. for the years , i grant , that according to st. paul , they did commence from the covenant made to abraham gal. . . and that the years began from isaac's being owned for the promised seed ; between which time the years were passed ; and all appearance of difficulty is avoided , if we admit the reading of the best copies of the lxx . which is in these words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , now the sojourning of the children of israel who dwelt in egypt and canaan , they and their fathers was years . this is the reading of our alexandrian copy , and the complutensian , and that of aldus , and of eusebius in his chronicon , and of st. hierome in his translation of it ; and of the church in st. augustins time , and afterwards ; and lest any should reject this as a late interpolation , or gloss received into the text , besides these testimonies of the antiquity of it , we find the very same in the samaritan copy , which the enemies of it do allow to be as ancient as our saviours time . and that which very much confirms the truth of this reading is , that the jews themselves follow the sense of it , who are the most eager contenders for the authority of the hebrew copy ; who all agree , that the beginning of the computation of the years is to be taken before the children of israels going into egypt : and menasseh ben israel contends with many others , that the years did begin from the promise made to abraham , and the from the time of isaac , to which their most ancient books of chronology do agree , and to the same purpose speak both philo judaeus , and josephus ; who although in one place he seems to make the israelites affliction in egypt to have been years , yet when he speaks more particularly of it , he makes the time of their abode in egypt to have been only , and the to begin from abrahams entrance into canaan : the targum of jonathan begins the from the vision of abraham , and the from the birth of isaac ; all which i mention , to let you see that the jews themselves do in sense concur with the samaritan and greek copy ; and therefore we have more reason to suspect something left out in the present hebrew , than any thing added in those copies . but doth not this take off from the authority of the scripture ? not at all : for the only question is about the true reading : and having the consent of the samaritan , alexandrian , and other copies of the lxx . and of the ancient church ; and of the jews themselves as to the sense of it , we have reason to look on this as the truer reading : which is making no addition to the scripture either as to persons or places , but only producing the more authentick copy ; much less is this adding or changing as we please , for if we did this without so much authority as we have for it , you might as easily reject it as we produce it . . after all this , i do not see the mighty force of your reason to charge the scripture with contradiction , supposing the years were to be spent in the servitude of the children of israel in egypt . i confess , when i found the scripture so boldly , so frequently charged with no less than contradiction , i expected something like demonstration in the case , especially in this place which you chose to put in the front of all ; but i do not find any thing like such a proof of a contradiction , supposing we should allow the years to be spent in egypt . yes , say you , coath was years old when he came down into egypt , and when he had lived there years he begat amram , and amram being years old begat moses , to which moses his years being added , we have only years . but since the scripture doth not assign , the particular age of any of these , when they begat their children , i see no impossibility or repugnancy in the supposition , that years should pass from levi's going into egypt , to the eightieth of moses , any more than from salmons entrance into canaan to the time of david , for no more are reckoned in scripture than boaz the son of salmon , by raab , and obed , and jesse ; so that by the same way , this latter may be explained , the former may be so too . if it be said , that either they begat their children at a great age , or that the scripture in genealogies doth not set down all the intermediate parents , but only the most eminent , ( as caleb is called the son of esron . chron. . , . although there was at least one between them , ) the very same answer will serve to clear this part of the chronology of scripture from any appearance of contradiction . these things you might have found more largely deduced and fully handled by those learned persons , who have undertaken to clear the chronology of scripture : who were men of more judgment , than from any difficulty of this nature , to call in question the truth and authority of the sacred scriptures ; and although the opinions of chronologers , are like the city clocks , which seldom agree , yet some come nearer the time of the day than others do ; and therefore you ought to examine and compare them before you pronounce so peremptorily about contradictions in scripture , which you have no reason to do till you find that no one hypothesis among them will serve to free the scripture from contradiction : for otherwise , you do but blame the sun , because you cannot make the clocks agree . this is all i can find in your papers under the head of contradictions ; and i leave you now soberly to consider , whether this place did afford you sufficient ground for so heavy a charge ; but if you say , you have a great many more by you , but you sent me this only for a tryal of my skill ; before you send any more ; i beseech you , sir , to consider , . how easily things do appear to be contradictions to weak , or unstudied , or prejudiced minds , which after due consideration appear to be no such things . a deep prejudice finds a contradiction in every thing ; whereas in truth , nothing but ill will , and impatience of considering , made any thing , it may be , which they quarrel at , appear to be so . if i had been of such a quarrelsome humour , i would have undertaken to have found out more contradictions in your papers , than you imagin , and yet you might have been confident , you had been guilty of none at all . when i consider the great pains , and learning , and judgement , which hath been shewn by the christian writers in the explication of the scriptures ; and the raw , indigested objections which some love to make against them , if i were to judge of things barely by the fitness of persons to judge of them , the disproportion between these , would appear out of all comparison . a modest man would in any thing of this nature say with himself , methinks , if there were such contradictions in the bible , as now seem to me ; so many persons of incomparable abilities in the first , and latter ages of the christian church , who have made it their business to enquire into these things , would have discerned them before me : and yet they retained a mighty veneration for the scriptures , as coming from god himself ; and therefore it may be only weakness of judgement , want of learning , or some secret prejudice may make me suspect these things ; or else i must suspect the honesty of all those persons who have pretended such a devotion to the scriptures , and yet have believed them full of contradictions . . wherein the contradiction appears . is it in the main and weighty parts of the religion revealed herein ; or is it only in some smaller circumstances as to time and place ? the great thing you are to look after , are the matters those scriptures tell you your salvation depends upon ; and if there be a full consent , and agreement therein ; you find enough for you to believe and practice . and if some contradictions should still appear to you in smaller matters , what follows from thence , but only that the same care was not taken about little , as about great things ? and you ought to set that appearance of contradiction in small matters , together with the real consent in the things of the highest importance ; and from thence rather to infer , that this was no combination or design to deceive others ; for such persons take the greatest care to prevent suspicion , by their exactness in every minute circumstance ; and sometimes the over-much care to prevent suspicion doth raise it the more . . what ways have been used by men of judgement and learning , to clear those places from the charge of contradiction . for , not one of the objections you can start now , but hath been considered over and over ; and all the difficulties that belong to it examined ; if you will not take the pains to do this ; it is plain you do not desire satisfaction , but only seek for a pretence to cavil ; especially , if you only search the weakest or most injudicious writers on the scriptures , and endeavour to expose their opinions , without taking notice of what others have said with more clear and evident reason . this shews either want of judgment in choosing such expositors , or want of candor and fair dealing and a desire of taking any advantage against the scriptures . . how hard a matter it is for us at this distance to understand exactly the grounds of chronology , or the manner of computation of times used so long ago : and therefore in all difficulties of this nature , we ought to make the fairest allowances that may be , considering withall , that escapes and errours are no where more easily committed by transcribers , than in numbers : and that it is a very unreasonable thing , that a book otherwise deserving to be thought the best book in the world , should be scorned and rejected , because there appears some difference in the computation of times . we do not so exactly know the manner of the hebrew chronology , nor , the nature of their year , or intercalations , nor the customs of their genealogies ; nor the allowance to be made for interregnums , so as to be able to define peremptorily in these things ; but it is sufficient to shew , that there is no improbability in the accounts that are given ; and no sufficient reason can be drawn from thence to reject the authority of the scriptures . . i come to consider the places you object , as containing things inconsistent with the wisdom , or goodness of god , according to a rational perswasion ; and those are either , . from the laws of moses . . from the express story of the bible , or actions of the prophets . . from the laws of moses : your first objection is from exod. . . where a man is supposed to sell his daughter ; which you say , it is incredible to believe that god should permit ; because it implies unnatural affection and covetousness in the father . but , sir , . you do not consider , that this is barely a provisional law , and is not the permission of the thing , so much as the regulation of it , supposing it to be done , i. e. in case a man should part with his interest in his daughter to another person , upon an extraordinary case of necessity , as the jews understand it ; yet then , she was not to be in the condition of a servant , but to be either betrothed to the person who receiv'd her , or to his son ; which was intended for the restraint of promiscuous buying and selling daughters , meerly for the satisfaction of lust. the jews who certainly best understood their own judicial laws , do say , that this was never to be done , but where there was a presumption of such a betrothing ; for no man could sell his daughter to those to whom it was unlawful for her to marry by their law ; so that this was looked on as a kind of espousals of a young girle , taken into wardship by another ; but so , that if she were not betrothed , she was to remain her years during her minority , as the jews understand it ; unless she were redeemed , or set free , or the jubile came , or the master dyed , or the time of her minority expired . . the case of necessity being supposed , it hath been thought lawful for parents to make advantage by their children , not only by the jews , but by other nations , who have been in the greatest esteem for wisdom . for by the law of the tables , among the romans , the father had the liberty of selling his son three times , for his own advantage , as dionys. halicarnasseus relates ; and before that time , it was not only in use among the romans , but in such esteem among them , that upon the review of their laws the decemviri durst not leave it out ; but by one of the laws of numa pompilius , it was restrained to the times before marriage , for in case the son had the fathers consent to marry , he could not sell him afterwards , as the same author tells us . this law continued in force among them , till christianity prevailed in the roman empire , for although there were a prohibition of diocletian against it , yet that signified nothing , till constantine took care , that such indigent parents should be relieved out of the publick charge , cod. theodos. l. . tit . . . and yet after this , the custom did continue , when the parents were in great want , as appears by a law of theodosius , cod. . tit . . omnes quos parentum miseranda fortuna in servitium dum victum requirunt addixit , ingenuitati pristinae reformentur . and it further appears , that even in constantin's time , notwithstanding the law made by him , parents would still , when they thought themselves overcharged with children , part with their interest in them to others for advantage , but it was chiefly while they were sanguinolenti , as the law expresses it , i. e. new born. cod. theod. l. . tit . . by the laws of athens , before solons time , parents might sell their children , as appears by plutarch , in his life ; and the same philostratus reports of the phrygians , l. . vit . apollon . tyan . and the like custom doth obtain among the chineses to this day , if persons do think themselves unable to bring up their children themselves . and there are two things to be said for it . . the natural obligation lying on children to provide for their parents in necessity , by any way they are able . . the probability of better education under more able persons ; and therefore the thebans had a law , that parents in case of poverty , were to bring their children to the magistrate , as soon as they were born , who put them out to such as were judged fit to bring them up , and to have their service for their reward . but however , you say , this place implys a toleration of having many wives , because it is said , if he take him another wife , v. . i do not deny , that the mosaical law did suppose the practice of polygamy ; but as it doth no where expressly allow it , neither doth it expressly condemn it . and although we say , the christian law is far more excellent , which reduceth marriage to its first institution ; yet you will find it a hard matter to prove such a permission of polygamy as this was , to be so repugnant to the law and principles of nature , as from thence to infer , that this law of moses could not be from god : you might have said the same about the matter of divorce , which was permitted them ; christ saith , for the hardness of their hearts : which shews , that god doth not always require that from men which is best pleasing to himself ; and that as to his political government , he may not always punish that , which is not so pleasing to him . the next law you quarrel at is that , deut. . , &c. about the tryal of virginity : which you object against , as immodest , and uncertain , and therefore unbecoming the wisdom of god. so , many customs of those elder times of the world , and of the eastern parts to this day seem very strange to us , that are not so well acquainted with the reasons of them . methinks , it better becomes our modesty in such cases , to question our understanding those customes , than presently to cast so much disparagement on the author of them . if you had been offended at the literal sense of those words , many of the jews themselves say , they are to be understood figuratively of the evidence that was to be brought and laid open before the judges , on behalf of the defamed person . and both josephus and philo omit the laying open the cloth. but supposing it to be taken in the plainest literal sense , i have two things to say in vindication of this law. . that however uncertain some physitians have thought that way of tryal to have been in these parts of the world ; yet it is generally agreed to have held for the eastern parts , by the most skilful physitians among the arabians : and a custom of the same nature is said by good authors to have been observed among the egyptians , and other africans , as well as the arabians ; so that this could not be thought so strange or immodest among the inhabitants of those parts : and it is very probable that some particulars , as to the practice of these laws are not set down , which might very much tend to the certainty of them , as the age of the married persons , which was most likely then , as it is to this day in the eastern parts , very early , the jews say , at years old , which would make the tryal more certain . . as to the modesty of it , you are to consider , that the law was intended to keep persons from unjust defamations , and such a way of tryal was therefore pitched upon to deter persons from such defamations ; which men might otherwise have been more ready to , because of the liberty of divorce , and the advantage they had in saving the dower , if they could prove the party vitiated before marriage ; therefore all the proof of that nature was to be passed soon after the consummation of marriage , which being agreed then by all the friends , there was to be no liberty left for defamation afterwards ; but in case any man should be guilty of it , the producing those evidences , which before they were agreed upon , should be sufficient to clear the innocency of the party accused . and therefore i look on this law , as the jews do on that of the rebellious son , of which they say , that there is no instance of the practice of it ; the penalty threatned being so effectual to prevent the occasion of it . and such in a great measure , i suppose the other law mentioned by you to have been , viz. of the water of jealousy , which you make so strange a matter of ; and think it savours too much of a design to gratify the jealous humour of the jewish nation : but you might have put a fairer construction upon it , viz. that it was intended to prevent any occasion of suspicion being given to the husband , by too much familiarity with other persons ; since the law allowed so severe a trial , in case the wife after admonition did not forbear such suspected familiarity , but if you had looked on the law , as it is , num. . , . &c. you would have found , that the design of it was to keep women from committing secret adultery , by so severe a penalty ; yet withall allowing so much to a reasonable suspicion , ( for so the jews understand it , with many cautions and limitations ) that rather then married persons should live under perpetual jealousies , he appointed this extraordinary way of tryal , whereby adultery was most severely punished , and the honour of innocency publickly vindicated ; which certainly are not ends at all unbecoming due conceptions of god. the last of the jewish laws , which you quarrel with is the prohibition of usury , in several places of moses his law and the psalms : and from hence you fall into a long discourse to prove the lawfulness of usury : but to what purpose i beseech you ? for you were to prove , that god could never forbid it ; you might have spared your pity for men , as you think , blinded with superstition , and cheated with new and aëry notions : for by all that i can see by these papers , some pretended enemies to superstition have no better eyes than their neighbours , and are as easily cheated with groundless fancies and aëry imaginations . the only thing to the business in that long discourse is this , that you cannot imagine that god should make a law so much to mans inconvenience , and forbid him so nice and indifferent a thing , as moderate increase of profit by letting out of money , when it is allowed upon lands , houses , and trade , &c. to this i answer , that the prohibition of usury , to the jewish nation , was upon political grounds peculiar to the constitution of that people ; as appears by the words of the law , deut. . , . thou shalt not lend to usury unto thy brother — unto a stranger thou maist lend upon usury ; but none of the laws which are founded upon common and moral reasons have such limitations as this ; for god would never have said , thou shalt not commit adultery with thy brothers wife ; but with the wife of a stranger thou maist . but there was this particular reason , for the prohibition of usury to the jewish nation : it pleased god to fix their habitation , not upon the sea-side , as tyre and sidon stood ; but within land where they had no conveniencies of trading , but the riches of the nation lay in agriculture and pasturage : in which the returns of money are neither so quick nor so advantageous to make sufficient compensation for the interest of the money in the time they have it : for the main thing valuable in money is the advantage the borrower makes of it ; and where that is great , it seems reasonable that the person whose the money is , should have a proportionable share of the advantage made by it ; but where persons borrow only for present occasions to supply their necessities , there it is only an act of kindness to lend , and it would be unreasonable to press upon , or take advantage by anothers necessities . and this seems to have been the case among the jews ; they were only the poor that wanted money for present necessities ; the rich had no way to imploy it in trading , unless that they lent to the tyrian merchants , which it was lawful by their law to do ; now if they took usury of their own people , it must be of those whose urgent necessity , and not hopes of a mighty increase by it made them borrow , and therefore it was a very just and reasonable law to forbid usury among them : which i believe he would never have done , if he had placed the jews upon the coasts of phoenicia , where trading was so much in request . these are all the laws which you have picked out of the whole body of the jewish law , to represent it unbecoming the wisdom of god : and now i pray sir , look back again upon them , see how few , how small , how weak your objections are ; and compare them with the weight , and justice , and prudence , and piety , expressed in all the rest , and i hope you will find cause to be ashamed of speaking so harshly of those laws , so well accommodated to those ages of the world , and the condition of that people for whom they were appointed . . i now consider what you object against the story of the bible . . that passage of moses ; exod. . . blot me out of thy book which thou hast written : where your design is to shew that moses prayed to be damned , and that this was a very irrational thing : and savouring more of passion than of the spirit of god. but what if moses meant no such thing as damnation ? as there is not any word in the context relating that ways , but all the design of that chapter is about a temporal punishment , which was a present destruction of the people for their sins . and the book out of which he prayed god to blot him , seems to me to be no other , than the roll of gods chosen people , who were to possess the land of canaan : for so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 properly signifies a roll or register . psalm . . we meet with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the roll of the living , or the book of the living we render it , because all ancient books were in the fashion of rolls . in that chapter , moses intercedes with god on behalf of the people , that he would make good his promise to them , of bringing them into the land of canaan . v. . and v. . he goes up to make an atonement for the people , i. e. as to the cutting them off in the wilderness , and therefore he desires rather than the people should be destroy'd , that god would strike him out of the roll , that he might dye in the wilderness rather than the people : and god gives that answer to this purpose , v. . whoever hath sinned against me , will i blot out of my book , the sense of which is the same with those words of the psalmist , he sware in his wrath that they should not enter into his rest. psal. , . and according to this interpretation , which is most natural and easie , all your long discourse against praying to be damned comes to just nothing ; there being no pretence for it , either in the text or context . . the story of ruth doth not please you , as savouring in your opinion of a great deal of immodesty ; but you would have a better opinion of it , if you consider that the reason of her carriage towards boaz , in such a manner , was upon naomies telling her that he was one to whom the right of redemption did belong , and by consequence , by their law , was to marry her . ruth . . and this ruth pleaded to boaz , ruth . . by which it appears , that she verily believed that he was legally her husband ; and boaz we see speaks of her as one that was a vertuous woman , and known to be such in the whole city . v. . and he confesses he was her near kinsman , only he saith , there was one nearer . v. . by which it seems , if there had not , boaz had made no scruple of the matter : and the jews say , in such marriages very little ceremony was required , if the next of kin did not renounce his right , because the law had determined the marriage before hand . if you had but considered this one thing , you would have spared the many observations you make on this story . . you object against sam. . . as too much countenancing either incest or adultery , because it is said , that god gave to david his masters wives into his bosom . but . it is very strange to bring this place as a countenance to adultery , which was purposely designed to upbraid david with the sin of adultery ; and you will find it no easie matter , by the constitution of the mosaical law , to prove polygamy to be adultery . . the jews give a fair interpretation of this place , for they say , that the wife of a king could never marry after her husbands decease , as the gemara on the title sanhedrim expresly saith , although some among them follow the opinion of r. jehuda , that she might marry the succeeding king ; but that is built chiefly on this place ; of which the rest give a better account , viz. that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not imply sauls wives , but the maids of honour , or attendants , on the court of saul , which all fell into davids power , and out of whom he might choose wives , without danger of incest ; and even some of those who assert it lawful for one king to marry his predecessors wife , yet say in this case of david , that the word only implies , that they were of saul's family , as merab and michal were , but not saul's wives . so that all the difficulty here arises only from the interpretation of an unusual word , in which we have much more reason to trust the jews than other writers . . you are much offended at hosea's marrying an adulteress : but all the formidable difficulties of that place will presently vanish , if you allow the prophetical schemes , wherein those things are said to be done , which are intended only to represent in a more lively manner the things signified by them . and so you may see the chaldee paraphrase , fully explains this place of hosea and maimonides purposely discourseth on the prophetick parables , and brings this as one of the instances of them ; and with him the rest of the jewish interpreters agree . but you object against such a way of teaching , as tending to the encouragement of vice , which it is very far from , being designed to represent the odiousness of it : for the whole scope of the prophet is to let the people understand , that their idolatry was as hateful to god as the sin of adultery , and that the consequence of it would be their misery and ruine . and yet that god expressed as much tenderness to them , as a man that was very fond of a woman would do , in being unwilling to put her away , although he knew she were false to his bed : the former is intended in the first chapter , and the latter in the third . and what is there tending to immorality in all this ? may not god make use of one vice , whose evil is more notorious to represent another by , whose evil they are more hardly convinced of ? may not he set forth a degenerate people by the sons of an adulteress ? and by the names given to them express his detestation of their wickedness ? especially when the parabolical terms are so clearly explained , as they are in the second chapter . but you will say , these things are related as plain matters of fact : with the several circumstances belonging to them . it is true , they are so , but so parables use to be ; so was nathan's to david ; so is that of the rich man and lazarus in the new testament ; so is jeremies going to euphrates to hide his girdle ; ( for it is not very likely the prophet should be sent or days journey into an enemies country for no other end : ) so is ezekiels lying on one side for days , and having his head and beard contrary to the law , as maimonides observes : and his digging in the walls of the temple at hierusalem , while he was in babylon : and many other things of a like nature , which are set forth with as punctual a narration of circumstances as this of hosea , and yet they were only figurative expressions . we that are accustomed to another way of learning , think these things strange ; but this was a very common way in the elder times , and it is to this day much used in the eastern countries , to represent duties to some , under the parables of things as really done by others : as may be seen in locman and perzoes , besides what clemens alexandrinus and others have said , concerning the antiquity and common use of this parabolical way of teaching . i now come to your objections against the new testament : but i find them so few , and those so slight and inconsiderable , as to the end for which you produce them , that i may easily pass them over . to that about the continuance of miracles , i have already answer'd : and i find not one word in the places mentioned by you , which implies the necessity of the continuance of them in all ages of the christian church . that place , mark . , . speaks of no more but such a recompence in this life as is consistent with persecution ; and therefore must chiefly lie in inward contentment ; which all wise men have valued above external accommodations ; although withall , by the account st. paul gives of himself , and his brethren , god did abundantly provide for them one way or other . as having nothing , and yet enjoying all things : which amounts to a hundred-fold in this life . but certainly you are the first man , who have objected the obscurity of the book of revelations , againgst the authority of the scriptures : which is just as if one should object the quadrature of the circle against mathematical certainty . if we grant that there are some things in that mystical book , we do not yet well understand ; what then ! must neither that book , nor any other of the bible be of divine revelation ? i will not pursue the unreasonableness of this way of arguing so far as i might ; but i leave your self to consider of it ; and of all that i have written , in order to your satisfaction . if you think fit to return an answer , i pray do it clearly and shortly , and with that freedom from passion , which becomes so weighty a matter : and i beseech god to give you a right understanding in all things . i am sir , your faithful servant . june . . finis . books sold by moses pitt , at the angel in st. paul's church-yard . folio . theses theologicae variis temporibus in academia sedanensi editae , & ad disputandum propositae . authore ludovico le blanc verbi divini ministro & theologiae professore . in qua exponitur sententia doctorum ecelesiae romanae , & protestantium . price s. dr. henry hammond's sermons . . a table of ten thousand square numbers , by john pell , d. d. stitcht , s. d. tuba stentoro-phonica , or the speaking-trumpet ; being an instrument of excellent use both at sea and land ; by sir samuel morland . price of the book s. of the instrument l. s. articles and rules for the government of his majesties forces by land , during this present war , . s. d. bailii opus hist. chronol . vet . & nov. test. . becmanni exercitationes theol. contra socinianos . an history of the church , by alex. petrey . . catalogus librorum in regionibus transmarinis nuper editorum . quarto . dr. pell's introduction to algebra . s. nich. mercatoris logarithmo-technia , sive methodus construendi logarithmos , . & jac. gregorii exercitationes geometricae , . s. love only for love sake , a dramatick romance , by sir richard fanshaw . s. d. mori enchiridion metaphysicum , . s. snellii typhis batavus , ludg. bat. . s. petrus paaw de ossibus , amst. . s. dr. thomas jacomb , on the eighth chapter of the romans . s. a letter from a gentleman of the lord howard's retinue , to his friend in london , dated at fez , nov. . . d. dr. wallis opera mechanica , s. hieronymi mercurialis de arte gymnastica libri sex cum figuris , . pignorii mensa isaica , . pharmacopeia hagiensis , .   augustana , . j. crellii ethica aristotelica & christiana , s. joan. binchii mellificium theologicum , s. theod. kerkringii d. m. spicilegium anatomicum , continens observationum anatomicarum rariorum centuriam unam nec non osteogeniam foetuum in qua quid cuique ossiculo ●ingulis accedat mensibus , quidve decedat & ●n eo per varia immutetur tempora , accuratissimè oculis subjiciuntur , . there is newly published two recantation-sermons ( preached at the french-church in the savoy ) by two converted romanists , mr. dela motte , late preacher of the order of the carmelites ; and mr. de luzanzy , licentiate in divinity ; wherein the corrupt doctrines of the church of rome are laid open and confuted . both printed in french and english. also two other sermons , one preached before the king at white-hall , jan. . . by henry bagshaw , d. d. the other before the lord mayor , dec. . . by johncook . a modest survey of the most material things in a discourse , called the naked truth , d. octavo . a discourse of local motion , undertaking to demonstrate the laws of motion , and withall to prove , that of the seven rules delivered by mr. des cartes on this subject , he hath mistaken six : englished out of french , . s. the history of the late revolution of the empire of the great mogol , with a description of the countrey , in two volumes . s. the history of the conquest of the empire of china by the tartars . . s. mystery of iniquity unvailed in a discourse , wherein is held forth the opposition of the doctrine , worship , and practices of the roman church , to the nature , designs , and characters of the christian faith , by gilbert burnet . s. a collection of popish miracles wrought by popish saints , both during their lives , and after their death , collected out of their own authors , s. theod. turqueti , de mayerne , de arthritide , accesserunt ejusdem consilia aliquot medicinalia , s. a new way of curing the gout , and observations and practices relating to women in travel , s. a relation of a conference held about religion at london , apr. . . by edward stilling fleet , d. d. and gilbert burnet , with some gentlemen of the church of rome . s. d. elenchi motuum nuperorum in anglia pars tertia , sive motus compositi . ubi g. monchii e scotia progressus , nec non aug. caroli secundi in angliam reditus ; ejusdemque regiae majest . per decennium gesta fideliter enarra●tur , . gualteri needham disputatio anatomica de formato foetu . . s. d. buxtorfius's epitome of his hebrew grammar englished , by john davis , . s. d. the fortunate fool , or the life of dr. ce●nudo , a spanish romance , . s. the adventures of mr. t. s. an english merchant , taken prisoner by the turks of argiers , with a description of that kingdom , and the towns and places thereabouts , . s. d. contemplations on mortality , . s. a discourse written to a learned frier , by mr. des fourneillis , shewing that the systeme of mr. des cartes , and particularly his opinion concerning brutes , does contain nothing dangerous ; and that all he hath written of both , seems to have been taken out of the first chapter of genesis : to which is annexed the systeme general of the cartesian philosophy , s. the relation of a voyage into mauritania in africk , by roland frejus of marseilles , by the french kings order , , to muley arxid king of taffaletta , &c. with a letter in answer to divers questions concerning their religion , manners , &c. . s. d. a genuine explication of the visions in the book of revelation , by a. b. peganius . . s. prodronius to a dissertation concerning solids naturally contained within solids , laying a foundation for the rendring a rational account , both of the frame and the several changes of the mass of the earth , as also the various productions of the same . by nich. steno , . s. d. basilius valentinus , of natural and super-natural things , also of the first tincture , root , and spirits of metals and minerals , how the same are conceived , generated , brought forth , changed and augmented : whereunto is added frier bacon of the medicine or tincture of antimony , mr. john isaack holland his works of saturn , and alexander van suchten , of the secrets of antimony out of dutch , . s. the poetical histories , being a compleat collection of all the stories necessary for a perfect understanding of the greek and latin poets , and other ancient authors , written originally in french , by the learned jesuite p. galtruchius . now englished and enriched with observations concerning the gods worshiped by our ancestors in this island , by the phoenecians and syrians in asia ; with many useful notes and occasional proverbs , gathered out of the best authors : unto which are added two treatises ; one of the curiosities of old rome , and of the difficult names relating to the affairs of that city ; the other containing the most remarkable ●ieroglyphicks of egypt . the third edition , with additions . by marius d' assigny , b. d. s. d. an essay about the origine and virtues of gems , by the honourable robert boyle . s. d. idem lat. twelves , s. sir samuel morland's arithmetick , with several useful tables , and a perpetual almanack , . s. a compleat treatise of chyrurgery , containing barbetts chirurgery . mindererus of diseases incident to camps and fleets : with a chyrurgeons chest of medicines and instruments . &c. s. dr. lower de corde . amster . . s. dr. grews anatomy of vegetables , . s. crowei elenchi script . in scripturam . s. d. eugelenus de scorbuto . fred. deckeri exercitationes medicae . grotii via ad pacem . alb. gentilis de armis romanis . de imperio . de legationibus . de nuptiis . hammond de confirmatione . hugenii momenta desultoria . paraei chronologia sacra . thruston de respiratione . twelves . a paradise of delights , or an elixir of comforts offered to believers , in two discourses , the first on heb. . , . the second on rom. . . by robert wyne . s. grotii sophompaneas . gronovius in livium . primrose ars pharmaceutica . schook de pace . suetonius . swalve alcali . severini synopsis chyrurgiae . terentii flores . trelcatii loci communes . balduinus de calceo & nigronius de caliga veterum . accesserunt ex q. sept. fl. tertulliani , cl. salmasii & alb. rubenii scriptis plurima ejusdem argumenti , . pauli barbetti opera chirurgica anatomica , . praxis barbettiana cum notis fred. deckeri , ottonis tachenii hippocrates chymicus , q. horatii poemata cum commentariis jo. menellii , . hugo grotius de veritate religionis christianae , ? theodori kerckringii d. m. commentarius in currum triumphalem antimonii basilii valentini a se latinitate donatum , . jo. pincieri m. d. aenigmatum libri tres cum solutionibus , . francisci redi experimenta circa res diversas naturales , speciatim illas quae ex indiis adferuntur , . aulus gellius . besterfeldus redivivus . herls wisdoms tripos . wilkins beauty of providence . quarto . a new dictionary , french and english , by guy miege . . marshal turenne's funeral sermon . . jer. horroccii . angl. opusc. astron. . an historical vindication of the church of england in point of schism , by sir ro. twisden . the last siege of mastricht . sept. . . dr. tillotson's sermon before the king , apr. . . dr. wilkins's two sermons before the king , march . . and feb. . . dr. jo. tillotson's rule of faith. . rhetores selecti : demetrius phalerius , tiberius rhetor , anonymus sophista , severus alexandrinus grecè et lat. per tho. gale. soc. coll. m. . a scriptural catechism , according to the method observed by the author of the whole duty of man , . how , of delighting in god ; of the blessedness of the righteous . two vol. art of speaking , by m. du port-royal , : notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e tractat. theol. politic . notes for div a -e acts . . . aelian . v. hist. l. . c. . selden . vxor ebra . l. . c. . schick . de jure reg. c. . theor. . maim . moro nevoch . l. . c. . jer. . . . ezek. . . . ezek. . . ezek. . . cor. . . several weighty considerations humbly recommended to the serious perusal of all, but more especially to the roman catholicks of england to which is prefix'd, an epistle from one who was lately of that communion to dr. stillingfleet, dean of st. pauls, declaring the occasion of the following discourse. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) several weighty considerations humbly recommended to the serious perusal of all, but more especially to the roman catholicks of england to which is prefix'd, an epistle from one who was lately of that communion to dr. stillingfleet, dean of st. pauls, declaring the occasion of the following discourse. t. s. epistle from a late roman catholick to the very reverend dr. edward stillingfleet, dean of st. paul's. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed for and to be sold by john holford ... and john harding ..., london : . 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to the serious perusal of all , but more especially to the roman catholicks of england . to which is prefix'd an epistle from one who was lately of that communion , to dr. stillingfleet , dean of st pauls ; declaring the occasion of the following discourse . he is not joyned to the church , who is departed from the gospel . s. cypr. de lapsis . am i therefore become your enemy because i tell you the truth ? galat. . . yet — i will very gladly spend and be spent for you : though the more abundantly i love you , the less i be loved , cor. . . london , printed for , and to be sold by john holford , in the pall-mall , over against st. albans-street ; and john harding , at the bible and anchor in st. pauls church-yard . . mart. . / . imprimatur , guil. sill , r. p. d. henr. episc. lond. à sacris dom. to the right reverend and honourable henry lord bishop of london , dean of his majesties chapel , and one of his most honourable privy council . my lord , i have some years since met with a prophecy ( and many talk of such things at this time ) which may yield a little comfort in this day of our visitation . the original it self i have not seen : but it is taken out of telesphorus de tribulat . and thus cited by dr. john white : antichristus non poterit subjugare venetias , nec parisios , nec civitatem regalem angliae . the memorable baffle that the venetians gave to paul the fifth ; the frequent picqueering of the sorbon with the same see , may in part justifie : but the wonderful preservations , both antient and modern , of this kingdom and metropolis , from the restless attempts of many of that faction , will , i hope , evince its probability . how instrumental your lordship hath been towards that security and happiness we yet enjoy , how indefatigable your pains , how undaunted your courage in the most critical conjunctures , is with gratitude and applause proclaimed to the world , not only by your own large and numerous flock , but by the loud acclamations of the whole nation . and though i never was so fortunate as to be an eye-witness of those heroick vertues which daily influence your charge , rendring you so amiable to the churches friends , and at the same time so formidable to her enemies : yet that universal character which is every where given of you , engages me to look on you as no less than a person in whom concentre those requisites , which some criticks in morality ( how justly i dispute not ) have exacted to make up a compleat christian. they are these : the orthodox faith and loyalty of a true english protestant ; the zeal and good works of a roman-catholick ; the gratious words and painful preaching of a puritan . and all these inculcated by your life , as well as injunctions on your most learned and religious clergy . but i must remember my self at the judges barr , and not at the heralds office ; and that this paper attends you as a petition , and not as a panegyrick . your most gracious approbation of my desires ( intimated to you by the reverend dean of st. pauls ) invites the one ; as your undoubted worth and honour extorts the other . vouchsafe then , my lord , to accept into the arms of your noble charity what is penn'd purely with a spirit of charity . they are such reflexions as reclaimed my self , and may , with gods blessing , contribute to the reducing of some others , as unwarily mis-led as i was . to which purpose , i endeavour brevity and perspicuity : designing this discourse for the vulgar , ( the learned have richer mines to recurr to ) and therefore waving that accurateness of method and expression , which your lordships judicious eye may expect ; but neither my intent , the present affliction i lye under , the unsettledness of my affairs , nor absence from my books ( all which afford not that tranquillum scribentis & otia ) will admit . however , when all athens was busie and in motion , the cynick for company would needs rowl about his tub. and , if so obscure a person as my self , intrude into the crowd of those many able contenders for the faith once delivered to the saints , which daily almost appear upon the stage ; i have st. augustines advice for my apology . de trinit . l. . c. . in places infected with heresie , all men should write , that have any faculty therein , though it were the same thing in other words : that all sorts of people , among many books , might light upon some ; and the enemy in all places might find one or other to encounter him . besides , i thought this the best expedient , publickly to testifie my sincere re-union to that church in which i received my baptism and education ; and how faithfully i am , and resolve by gods grace to continue , my lord , your lordships most humble and obedient servant t. s. an epistle from a late roman catholick to the very reverend dr. edward stillingfleet dean of st. pauls , &c. very reverend and honoured sir , though i am not altogether ignorant of your person , yet my chief acquaintance is with those learned works of yours , ( the best representative ) wherewith you have enriched this age , obliged the church of england , and ( i speak it experimentally ) given the greatest satisfaction to ingenious minds , that sober and unaffected reason ( i do not mean such stuff as mr. white 's and mr. serjeant's demonstrations ) can possibly perform . and thus , sir , i have been your most intimate friend and servant these seven or eight years . all which space i have been a very attentive spectator of your famous encounters , and to my comfort seen single truth and modest reason combate with whole troops of old , subtle , confident , cholerick , and i may add , malicious adversaries , and i hope i shall have cause to bless god to all eternity , and thank you for so glorious a sight . but before i return my full acknowledgments to you , i must crave leave to give you a short but true narrative : only be pleased not to believe it ( as you style mr. cressey's ) a legend of my self . i had my education in one of the chiefest free-schooles in london , under the care of a very able instructor , and by him was sitted for the university ▪ but about a year before my advancing thither , it happen'd that an ancient gentleman came frequently to divert himself in a walk that was near the school , and so took occasion to discourse with divers of the lads : i being the head of the school at that time , he pretended a particular complacency ( though i know not why ) in my self . he never conferred about any point in religion , but still entertained me with speaking latin , which he did very fluently and politely : and his constant discourse was about the rare method of education used beyond sea , the great number of their students , the diligence of their tutors , the exactness of their discipline , and much more to the like effect . what this conversation would have produced at last , i know not . but the chief master of the school perceiving me often with him , at last forbad me his company , and told me he shrewdly suspected the gentleman to be a jesuit . and i remember he instanced in some particular slie wayes those persons used to intice and spirit away youths , whom they judged fit for their employment . so this correspondence broke off , and i never had more to do with him . however i must confess that much of his discourse did recoil upon my childish fancy a long time after . and though within a short while i went to cambridge , viz. in the year . yet my mind was not quiet : and those stupendous distractions both of church and state that immediately followed , did infinitely add to my perplexity . then happen'd his majesty's happy restauration : which being as it were a year of jubilee , no wonder if the younger sort of the university did take the benefit of the indulgence : i mean indulgere genio , and use some liberties , which at other times the strictness of an academical life would not have permitted . here likewise i acknowledge i swam with the stream , and did not so seriously mind those affairs i was designed for by my friends , and so fell into those inconveniencies , which , not long after my having proceeded batchelor of art , induced me to leave the university . coming up to london i light into the company of an ancient acquaintance , and among other discourses we at last fell upon religion . the gentlewoman adjured mee by no small considerations to advise well what i fix'd upon , and likewise to recurr to some able person of her perswasion , which was that of the roman-catholicks . hereupon i was introduced to one of the most grave , subtle , and acute fathers then in the nation ( one whose works i perceive you are not wholly a stranger to , ) i mean f. fran. à s. clara : with whose winning discourse i was extreamly taken , and to whose extraordinary civilities i must always account my self extraordinarily obliged . you cannot be long in suspense concerning the issue of this interview . he who had triumphed over so many persons of honour and quality , clergy and laity , ( witness among the rest , dr. g. bishop of gloucester ) might easily bassle such a young stripling as my self , and soon dazle my eyes with the glittering pretenses of infallibility , antiquity , unity , universality , succession , councils , fathers , saints , miracles , religious orders , &c. these , with the example of several learned men , converts of our own nation , as dr. baily , vane , carrier , cressey , walsingham , montague , crashaw , with many others yet living and therefore nameless , were , i then thought , too great a cloud of witnesses for my single wit either to oppose or so much as question . and now , sir , you may easily guess what became of me . for about nine or ten years i was wholly imuiured up , forced to comply with and swallow every thing , durst not propose any scruples for fear of being suspected heretically inclined . and thus i continued till the latter end of the year . at which time , by gods great mercy i got some respite to reflect upon what i had done in revolting from the church of england , and engaging with one , the ignorance of whose proselytes is often made use of for something more than bare devotion . since that time , i take god to witness , i have most impartially survey'd all the several writers i could procure on both sides ; but especially your own books , dr. tillotson's , and dr. lloyd's . ( to both whom , i beseech you , in my name to tender my most humble thanks for that great satisfaction i have reaped by their writings , especially the rule of faith. ) and , i assure you , i found the infallible principles so shaken by those solid and learned treatises , and my self so intrigued by my own experience of the juggling practices of some persons most cryed up for perfection , that neither father bellarmine ( for as you well observe , amidst that great boast that is made of fathers , he is the great father with most of our neoterick controvertists ) nor dr. t. g. nor mr. cressey , nor mr. serjeant himself , who speaks nothing but scientifical oracles , could unblunder my thoughts : ( that i may not wholly forsake the rhetorick of my old friends . ) and this hath been the true state of my soul for several years , just like s. james's 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , unconstant in his wayes . for , what with the terrour of that theological scare-crow , schism , on the one hand ; with the flattery of an acknowledged possibility of salvation in the roman church on the other ( though the dean of canterbury's sermon on that subject hath now perfectly cleared me ) i was still detained in a communion with that church , which i conceived to hold all the fundamentals of christianity . to which ( to acknowledge something of humane frailty ) i may add the advantages i enjoyed , and the damages i should unavoidably incurr , by quitting a party , whose inveterate and implacable malice towards a deserter , though upon the strongest convictions of conscience , is sufficiently known , and particularly taken notice of by the afore-mentioned reverend and learned author , in his discourse on that of the gospel , there is joy in heaven over one sinner , &c. and i my self have already begun to experiense from some , from whom i neither expected nor deserved it . to omit that innate reluctancy , well nigh in all , of recanting a committed errour . though these were but difficulties of the second rate . yet at last those desperate practices whereof many of that party stand suspected , and some indicted , made me resolve to break through all obstacles , and publickly declare my detestation of their actions , by renouncing their communion , and protesting against those principles and doctrines ( as is evident in the most general council of lateran , and others , seconded by the undeniable practice of many popes , in actual deposing of princes , and disposing of kingdoms ) which , it is to be feared , had but too much influence on such traiterous designs . this tenent of a foreign power , either direct in spirituals , or indirect in temporals , is most manifestly inconsistent with the peace and safety of our english nation ; and till it be renounced or disabled , we shall never be free from jealousies and fears . there is another point of as fatal consequence to common conversation , as the former to the publick government , and that is the trick of equivocation , or refined art of lying . i will not say it is a doctrine of the roman church ; but i know it to be both the doctrine and practice of a leading party in that church ; and never , as i ever yet heard of , was it yet censured by the church it self ; no more than the deposing doctrine , and other such like hellish maxims have been disowned . of this latter i had a famous instance not long since : a known jesuit being apprehended in a neighbouring town , upon the interrogatories put to him by the magistrate , he denied himself to be a priest , protested he was a married man , had wife and children . and all this was salved by that pittiful evasion ( you know the shift of the crucifix in the sleeve used at china ) that his breviary was his wife , and his penitents his spiritual children . this was a very great scandal to all that heard of it , both protestants and romanists ; and for my own part , i was so concerned in it , that i writ expresly to my old learned friend f. fran. à s. clara , to be satisfied . who , quite contrary to my expectation ( and which hath much diminished the esteem i had for him ) gave we this answer in writing ; that he had done nothing amiss , nor misbeseeming an honest man. nay then , thought i , the good lord open our eyes ! and , to deal plainly with you , from that very moment i have been very much unsatisfied , whether the roman principles be safe to dye in : much less to ruin estates , and dye for . thus , sir , being very timorous of diverting your many weighty employments , i have given you a cleer , faithful , and succinct account of my self . and so now , laqueus contritus est , &c. the snare is broken , and we are escaped . my remaining business is , as speedily as i can procure it , to be received into the bosome of my antient mother the church of england , whom with unfeigned contrition of heart , i acknowledge to have forsaken before i throughly understood : and purpose , by gods help , to evidence to the world , that i have far more considerable motives to return , than i had to wander . and though i shall not make such a noise as those who have published exomologeses , challenges , &c. yet i hope i shall make it appear , that the change i now make , is done upon the maturest deliberation , back'd by the most earnest imploring of the divine assistance . about five years since , it was my hap , at the instance of a person of quality who had considerable sums to dispose of , to publish a small tract entituled , the case of interest , or usury , as to the common practice , examined in a letter to the same person . it is the onely piece i ever yet penn'd : and i mention it , that if you please you may perceive , that i alwayes proceeded upon principles of honesty , conscience , and moderation ; and even then had an honourable regard for the church of england . but , good lord ! what outeries were then made against it by the jesuitical party , who look'd on it as purposely written to affront their trade ! what excommunications threaten'd by others ! so you may easily foresee what i am to expect , when i disingage my self of the promise i just now made you . but a good god , a good cause , and a good conscience , will , i question not , carry me through all . it is no small comfort to me , when i think how that vast wit , mr. chillingworth , could not escape those very snares that i have been entangled with . and i presume it may serve as an apology for the slips and failings of my weak intellectuals , when such a great master of reason as he , was for a time led captive . yet at last , he most happily discovered and proved the protestant religion a safe way to salvation . those whom i forsake have a tradition ( as indeed they have too many ) that none ever retire from their communion , but they presently become depraved in their morals . ( if they mean the jesuits morals , it is no great matter ) i have no wayes to confute them fully , but as diogenes did zeno , by walking : viz. with a conscience void of offence both towards god and man. and if they shall , after their charitable method , think to bespatter me for any thing past ; i have such publick , authentick and late testimonies under hand and seal from the chief among them , of my comportment ( though i will not disown the allayes of common frailties and imperfections ) that shall be able to silence the most impudent calumny . but i fear i have already trespassed upon your patience ; and i must referr what else i had to propose , till such time i am so happy ( and truly till then , i shall neither be happy nor satisfied ) as to see you . many doubts i have to object , fitter to be committed to a ghostly father's ear , than to paper : and many particulars there are , wherein i may perhaps gratifie your own curiosity ▪ but , having been so long a romanist , and being still a reputed one , i should he loth that disobedience to royal proclamations ( however they have been slighted by some ) should be the first fruits of my conversion . and therefore i must patiently attend that good hour , when i may satisfie both my obedience and my inclinations together . in your conference with sir p. t. and mr. coleman ( that wretched man , who , had he meddled with nothing but what he then pretended himself so desirous to be resolved in , had never come to that sad catastrophe ) you express so much candour , meekness , christian zeal and charity for satisfying those dissenters , who in reality did nothing but shuffle with you ; that it emboldens me to address a request to you ( besides my thanks , which most cordially i do by these presents . ) viz. that because i apprehend danger from some of those i relinquish , having already tasted a little of their kindness that ways , and because i would not long remain in an unfix'd , neutral posture ; you would be pleased to procure leave that i might come up to london , where i may attend you , and both give and receive all desired satisfaction possible . i know you so eminent , that you may procure a license . this would complete my felicity : and as for your own reward , besides the complacency you take in the very performance of such charitable offices , i can but referr you to that of st. james , cap. & v. ult . brethren , if any of you do err from the truth , and one convert him : let him know , that he who converteth a sinner from the error of his wayes , shall save a soul from death , and shall hide a multitude of sins . there is one cavil i must needs remove , and it is this : how chances this change just now ? why in this present conjuncture ? it is to be suspected you act more out of fear than conscience . this surmise i insinuated before , and partly adverted to it but more particularly i have these things to offer in reply : i might , ad hominem , put the objectors in mind how dr. vane , mr. cressey , and others forsook the church of england , when it was in a very low , persecuted condition : and were not ashamed in their writings to intimate as much . for one of the motives of their withdrawing was , that she never had been well grounded ; and therefore god seemed to forsake her , and lopt off her head : with much more to the same purpose ; as is particularly to be seen in dr. bailey's end to controversie . but i scorn such disingenuous , mean-spirited principles . and i desire that they would withal consider that the church of england was then reduced to those exigences for her constant and never blemished loyalty . whereas divers of themselves now stand charged with something else besides idolatry and phanaticisme . but to answer for once and all ; i confess i do it out of fear ; not of any temporal incommodity ; for that might several other wayes be avoided : but of having fellowship with any of those horrid works of darkness , whereof many of its professors , and the religion it self are accused . and this may serve for my old friends . now as for your self and all other candid disinterested persons , i know it will be satisfactory to put you in mind , that to impute my proceedings to the frowning of the times on that party , is fallacia non causae pro causa : a mistake of the adjunct or circumstance of time , for the principal motive . the conversion of a sinner is the work of omnipoteuce ; who as he is most free in all his actions ad extra ; so especially in the reclaiming of a strayed sheep . he is no wayes tied up to the circumstances of whom , how , where or when. nescit tarda molimina spiritûs sancti gratia , sayes s. bernard . and if he were graciously pleased more effectually to touch my heart now , than at any other time ( and times of affliction are his especial seasons . afflictio dat intellectum . cum occideret eos &c. ) i know no other account can be given of it than that of our b. saviour , even so father , for so it seemed good in thy sight . nay i have before demonstrated that these thoughts have been long hovering in my mind , though perhaps they had not been altogether so suddenly declared , but out of a deep resentment of the dangers of any further neglecting the divine call : and a seasonable desire to testifie to the world my perfect abhorrence of such desperate practices and principles , which i am convinced are pernicious both to publick polity and civil society . and i hope none can reasonably be angry , that i have gained more experience now i am thirty six years old , than i had when i was but twenty . these are the principal matters i thought worth your knowledge at present , wherein i protest before god and man , that i have no other design but the quiet of my conscience , and the salvation of my soul. and when i have given a publick tolerable account of this affair , i will take my leave of this noble science of controversie ( as mr. serjeant calls it ) having alwayes been more addicted to ascetick theology ; and sit down with divine anselm's resolution , quid restat per totam vitam meam , nisi ut defleam totam vitam meam ? crosses and afflictions are no more than i except and deserve , having hitherto been so little acquainted with them . the wise man hath read my doom to me , fili , accedens ad servitutem dei , praepara animum tuum ad tentationem . as for the sincerity of my resolutions , i can but appeal to that great searcher of hearts and tryer of reins . and though some folk talk of dispensations from rome for the taking all oaths , and complying with all externals : and no meaner a person than the author of the difference between the church and court of rome , out of arch-bishop spotswood's history , mentions some such like thing practised in scotland : yet , with submission to the learned author , i conceive there is no such matter : since the pope himself could never be induced to approve even the single oath of allegiance ; but expresly condemned it , and severely prohibited the taking of it , as containing , saith he , divers points contrary to salvation . and moreover , put case any thing of that nature were in being ; i here solemnly avow , that i disown all such pretended authority . one circumstance , not very material i confess ( but i would not too much swerve from the accurate exactness of writers of epistles apologetical : though mr. cressey observe it in the beginning , and i in the conclusion ) must not be forgotten ; and thus it is : to you above all persons living , i have an obligation to recurr in spiritual concerns ; for i am your parishioner : holborn having been the place of my nativity . i have nothing more , but with all respect and gratitude to assure you i am december . . reverend and honoured sir , your most obliged and humble servant t. s. several weighty considerations humbly recommended to the serious perusal of all : especially the roman catholicks of england . it is a very good rule prescribed by some spiritual writers , that in converse , we should rather discourse of things , than persons . and i intend , as much as the matter will permit , to observe it in this subsequent treatise ; carefully avoiding all personal reflections , especially upon such as are living ; and shall only bring some doctrines and practices to the test , which , though they pass for currant with many , will yet be found adulterate and contrary to holy scripture , the best genuine antiquity , and right reason : highly scandalous to the christian religion in general , destructive of civil government , fatal to humane society , and very pernicious both to the spiritual and temporal concerns of the practisers even in their private capacity . in short , i shall very plainly and briefly endeavour to make good two assertions : . that there is no sufficient ground for any one to forsake the communion of the church of england , and incorporate with that of rome . . that there is all reason imaginable both for such as have been educated in the roman communion , to reform ; and for such as have unwarily ingaged with her , to return . this was the happy result of these following considerations upon my own heart : and it shall be my prayer that they may have the same blessed effect in the impartial perusers of them . the sacred oracles of the holy scriptures deservedly command our first inquiry . we have cardinal bellarmine's own concession , that in the grand question of the church , the scripture is better known than the church . consequently then , not only her authority but her very being must be subordinate to it . and therefore in the first place let us see what sentiments the church of england hath of these heavenly records , and whether hers , or those of the roman church be more consonant to pure antiquity , reason , and holy writ it self . all protestants , and particularly the church of england , artic. . look upon the holy scriptures to contain all things necessary to salvation ; so that whatever is not read in them , or cannot be proved from them , is not to be imposed on any , to be received as an article of faith , or a necessary requisite to salvation . whence it appears , that they take them to be the onely , complete , and adequate rule both of faith and life : sufficiently intelligible and easie in matters that concern what is simply necessary to make us good and happy . they consequently hold , that since holy scripture is the rule of our faith , it must have an exact proportion to that , whereof it is a rule . so that matters of faith are not to be extended beyond this rule , nor can any unwritten traditions any way be pretended to appertain to the substance of faith. moreover , the rule being the idea , model and great exemplar of what is regulated by it , it is in order of nature before the thing so regulated . and if the word of god be antecedent to faith it self , it must likewise precede the faithful themselves ; and if the faithful , then must it have preheminence before the church it self , which is nothing else but the congregation of the faithful . thus the church of rome will evidently fall short of that prerogative she so presumptuously arrogates , of being both before , and above the scripture . again , a rule consisting in indivisibili , as we say , i. e. being of that nature that it is not to be inlarged or diminished ; how guilty are they who either make additions to , or substractions from it ? both which the roman church practiseth , as de facio will be manifest in the sequele of this small tract . in fine they hold the word of god written , to be that one , infallible , entire rule , whereby all men , learned and unlearned , may in all necessary and fundamental points of faith and manners be sufficiently instructed what is to be embraced for true and good : that it is a rule most certain , plain , universal , impartial , not addicted to one side more than another : ( which neither pope , conclave nor councel can so much as pretend to ) of power and authority able to convince the consciences of such as use it , and from which there can be no appeal . and the only cause why any miss of the true faith , is , because they do not sincerely seek and find out this infallible rule ; or having found it , will not with an obedient mind captivate their understanding , but have access to it with pride , curiosity , prejudice , or some other unmortifyed lust or impediment . more especially the church of england , besides that high veneration that she her self hath for these sacred books , labours to confirm and root the same in the hearts of her obedient children , by her devout practice . for , to omit the frequent , laborious and judicious preaching and expounding of them in this church ; she hath so prudently disposed of her publick liturgy , that every day some part and portion of both testaments is appointed to be read : the whole book of psalms is gone through once a moneth , the old testament once , and the new thrice every year ; with other most excellent exercises of piety ; ( at which even the romanists themselves can take no just exception ; and a very great author affirms , that a modern pope would have approved the whole service-book , had his authority but been acknowledged ) which discreet course cannot but afford much heavenly instruction and consolation to the constant attenders on such blessed opportunities . but what saith the church of rome all this while in this business ? in her tridentine council , sess. . can. . she expresly decrees , that unwritten traditions are of equal authority with the written word ; that they are to be received with the same reverence and affection . and cardinal hosius , who was one who in the popes name presided at that council , defends that most blasphemous speech of wolfangus hermannus , that the scripture is of no more authority than esop's fables , but for the churches and popes approbation , lib. . de authorit . script . the council of basil would fain perswade us that the churches acts and customs must be to us instead of the scriptures , ( instar habeant sacrarum scripturarum ) for that the scripture and churches customs both require the same affection and respect . indeed i find the romish doctors in nothing more fluent than in degrading and vilifying the scriptures . our country man , dr. stapleton , positively affirms , that the church hath authority to put into the number of books of scripture , and to make canonical the writings of hermes and constitutions of clemens ( two famous counterfeits ) and that then they would have the same authority which other books have , canonized by the apostles themselves . some call them a nose of wax , to be wrested any way . cardinal cusanus blushes not to write that the scriptures are fitted to the time , and variously understood ; the sense thereof being one while this , and another while that , according as it pleases the church to change her judgment . some teach that the scripture is not simply necessary , that god gave it not to the people but to the doctors and pastors ; and that we must live more according to the dictates of the church , than the scripture . eckius , the great antagonist of luther , would make us believe that christ never gave any command to his apostles , to write any thing . which yet seems very odd , when such an express injunction was lay'd on s. john to write that mystical book of the apocalypse , which certainly is not more conducing to the churches edification than our b. saviour's sermon on the mount , and the many other practical discourses both of himself and his disciples . in a word , the most ingenuous and civil among their writers think they have pay'd all due respect to holy writ , when they term it a dumb judge , dead ink , or ink shaped into various forms and characters . notwithstanding which i humbly conceive , that let an indifferent person open the bible and the canons of the council of trent together , and he will receive at least as clear and full satisfaction from the bible , as from the other ; unless we will impiously deny almighty god the faculty of expressing his holy will and pleasure as intelligibly as frail men can theirs : or without any shew of reason affirm with a late divine , that religion it self was never fully setled till that upstart conventicle . conformable to the sentiments are the practices of that church , in keeping the bible lock'd up in an unknown tongue from the use of the vulgar . clement the eighth very strictly orders all vulgar translations to be put into the index of prohibited books . and in italy and spain , and wherever the inquisition hath the least jurisdiction , the very keeping of them is a crime no less than capital . it is true , where the reformation hath got any footing , faculties are sometimes granted to read a translation ; but clog'd with so many proviso's and various cautions , and their spiritual guides give so small encouragement to it , that it seems rather a trick to stop the mouthes of their adversaries , when they object the prohibition of reading scripture , than any real intention of promoting so pious an exercise among their devotes . besides , their other forms of devotion , rosaries , or saying over the beads after divers methods , our ladies office , prayers for the dead , manuals , the long litanies of saints , hearing of masses , reading of legends , &c. are in so great vogue , and take up so considerable a time , that i scarce see how any can be allotted for that contemned employment of studying gods word : which ought to be the meditation of every good christian day and night . indeed this neglect ( to say no worse ) of holy scripture is so notorious among , and so peculiar to those of that way , and the ignorance not only of the laity but of divers of the clergy in that kind of learning especially , is so gross , that it would be a work of supererogation to attempt the proof of it : their doctors generally pretending translations of scripture to be the cause of all heresies and phanaticism . nay , i have met with one so frantick , that he thinks it was the devils invention to permit the people to read the bible . martin . peres . de tradit . and i remember thyrraeus de daemoniac . c. . says , that thence he knew certain persons to be possess'd by the devil , because being but husbandmen they were able to discourse concerning scripture . we will now see what holy writ it self , untainted antiquity , and unprejudiced reason alleage in this case : and which side they patronize , the reformation or the church of rome . s. paul gives this encomium of his disciple timothy , ep. c. . v. . that from a child he had been conversant in the holy scriptures , and tells him they were able to make him wise to salvation ( which i hope is knowledge enough , and i am sure is a more plain , compendious path , than the crooked labyrinths of uncertain traditions , forged decrees , canons and fathers . ) he further assures him , that the same divine scriptures were profitable for doctrine , for reproof , for correction , for instruction to righteousness ; that the man of god might be perfect , throughly furnished to every good work. for my part i know not what remains then for tradition and such like trash to perform , since the word of god alone can so compleat us . solomon , prov. . . assures us that gods law alone will make a man understand righteousness , and judgment , and equity , and every good work. the prophet esa. c. . . refers us to try all things by the law and testimony : and that we must conclude those to have no light , who speak not according to that word . our b. saviour luke . . when a lawyer inquired of him what he should do to inherit eternal life : bids him have recourse to what was written in the law , and asked him how he read there . s. luke writ his gospel to theophilus a lay person . luke . . to the end he might certainly know those things wherein he had been instructed . s. john writ his , as he himself testifies , c. . v. . that we might believe that jesus is the christ , the son of god , and that believing we might have life through him . abraham sends dives his brethren to moses and the prophets , rather than to visions , apparitions , and private revelations : which yet are so much pretended to and boasted of in the roman church . christ himself submitted the tryal both of his doctrine and miracles to the censure of the scriptures . john . . search the scriptures , for they are they which testifie of me . thoughts are free , and i am apt to think that some will take the liberty to judge it a little unreasonable , that our b. saviour should so readily stand to the verdict of moses and the prophets ; and yet his pretended vicar should scorn to submit to the censure of christ and his apostles ; but defie both their doctrines and practices with so many non obstante's , as appears by their new model'd creed at this day : wherein pius the fourth hath coined twelve new articles of faith , to shew his single power equivalent to that of all the apostles in general , who did but every one contribute his single article to that ancient symbole bearing their name . s. paul's auditors the bereans are highly commended for searching the scriptures daily , to examine whether the doctrine they heard were true or no. act. . . in sum , the old law was severely injoyned to the reading and meditation both of prince , priest and people ; men , women and children , as is obvious to observe all along the style thereof . and the jews were so versed in it , as to be able to reckon up the number of the words , nay letters contained therein . and the new law excludes none , either from that common salvation it holds forth , or the means to attain it , which is the doctrine of the gospel . the epistles are directed to persons of all sorts and both sexes . in fine , the whole oeconomy both of the old and new testament is so diametrically opposite to the practice of the roman church in this point , that it is but too too palpable that the three main pillars of popery , are to keep the prince in awe , the priest in honour , and the people in ignorance . antiquity is so luxuriant in this point , that it will be a greater difficulty to select than to accumulate . famous is that speech of constantine the great to the fathers in the niccne council , recorded by theodor. histor. l. . c. . and this saying among the rest is very remarkable : we have the teaching of the holy ghost written : for the evangelical and apostolical books and the old prophets do evidently teach us the things that are needful to be known concerning god. wherefore laying aside all contention let us out of the divinely inspired scripture , take the resolution of those things we seek for . tertullian contr . hermog . in plain terms calls the scripture the rule of faith. st. chrysostom hom. . in ad cor. styles it , a most excellent rule and exact ballance to try all things by . st. august . in l. . de nupt. & concup . c. . speaks thus : this controversie depending between us requires a judge : let christ therefore judge , and let the apostle paul judge with him : because christ speaks in his apostle . but most memorable is that passage of optatus contr . parmen . l. . where he thus presses the donatist : we are ( saith he ) to enquire out some to be judges between us in these controversies : the christians cannot , because both sides cannot yield them : and by part-taking the truth will be hindred : the judge must be had from without our selves . if a pagan , he knows not the mysteries of christianity : if a jew , he is an enemy to baptisme : therefore on earth no judgment concerning this matter can be found . the judge must be had from heaven . but to what end should we knock at heaven , when here we have one in the gospel ? quotations might be infinite , but i supersede . nor did the antient fathers onely think this themselves , but by their frequent translations of the scripture , and vehement exhortations to the people to read them so translated , they endeavoured to beget the same awful respect to gods holy word in the minds of all . ulphilas , a bishop of the goths , turned the scripture into that barbarous language , as socrates witnesses . methodius into the sclavonian . s. chrysostom . hom . . in johan . makes mention of syrian , aegyptian , indian , persian and ethiopian translations . theodoret de curand . graec. affect . assures us the bible was turned into all languages used in the world , greek , latin , armenian , scythian , sarmatian , &c. and we have at this day divers fragments of them remaining . venerable bede shews the same of our own country . to speak plain : i know no topick the fathers are more copious upon , than in calling upon the people to get bibles , to read them , to examin what they hear by them , and severely inveighing against the negligence of such as did not : according to the apostles advice even to the laity , colos. . . let the word of christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom , teaching and admonishing one another . theodoret , before cited , gives this account of his times . you shall every where see these points of our faith to be known and understood , not only by such as are teachers in the church , but by smiths , weavers , and all kinds of arcificers : yea , all our women , not only such as are book-learned , but also by them who get their living by the needle , maid servants and waiting-women : and not citizens only , but husbandmen are very skilful in these things . you may hear among us ditchers and neat-herds discoursing of the trinity and the creation . and that the laity were thus familiar with the bible , may evidently be made out , in that nectarius , of a judge , was made bishop of constantinople ; st. ambrose , of a secular deputy , bishop of milan ; gregory the father of nazianzen , of a lay-man was made a bishop : origen from a child was learned in the scriptures ; and to the great joy of his father leonides , a holy martyr , often questioned with him concerning the meaning of difficult places . macrina , st. basil's nurse , taught him the scriptures when he was very young : and gorgonia , the sister of st. gregory nazianzen , was rarely well experienced in them . i will wind up this argument with declaring what was st. jerom's mind in so weighty a business . he , besides his writing to divers women , as eustochium , salvina , celantia , &c. commending their labours in the scriptures , and encouraging that study : speaking of the noble roman lady paula , in the epitaph he made upon her , he extolls her for imposing a daily task of reading the scriptures , on her companions and maids . but more signally in an epistle to l●t● , he gives her these directions for the education of her little daughter . let the child be deaf in hearing of light musical aires ; but cause her every day to render a task of the flowers of holy scripture . let her not be sought for in the press of secular people , but in the closet of the scriptures , asking counsel of the prophets and apostles concerning spiritual nuptials . let her first learn the psalter , and with those heavenly songs wean her self from light sonnets . then let her be taught to govern her life out of solomons proverbs , and repair to job for examples of vertue and patience , let her then come to the evangelists , and never lay those books out of her hands . with these she must joyn the acts of the apostles , &c , but let her be cautious in apocryphal books , and if she read them , let her understand , that they are not those author's , whose names they carry ; and that many things faulty are mix'd with them ; and it is no small wisdom to fund gold among dross . to which excellent advice , let me onely subjoyn what i find scattered up and down in s. augustin ; viz. to read plain passages first , and heartily to practice what we understand ; and as for obscure places , prophecies , genealogies and mysteries , whereof we shall never be demanded an account at the day of judgment , let us leave it to the divine pleasure , either to reveal them to us , or reserve them still concealed : since our saviour told his own disciples that it was not for them to know the times and seasons : but plainly informed them , that he who did his will should know of his doctrine , whether he spoke from god or from himself . the same father acquaints us with the admirable commixture of plainness and obscurity in the holy scripture : that hereby wanton wits are wholsomely curbed , weak wits cherished , and great wits delighted : and that nothing of highest importance is so perplexedly delivered in one place , but it is as plainly set down in another . i have inlarged a little more than i intended on this theme , because i am verily perswaded , that if the sober , judicious roman catholicks of this nation would be induced but for tryal sake a while to intermit some of those dry , insipid devotions , which take up so much of their time ; and exchange them for a pious , humble conversing with god's word ; they would soon be out of conceit with what they are now so fond of ; and discover the sandy foundation of many of their principles : and perhaps at last become of that good abbots mind who was unkle to arch-bishop whitgift , and was often heard to complain , that their religion must needs at last fail , because he found no ground for it in gods word . having considered hitherto the great rule of our faith and life , we will now descend to that article of our creed which makes such a noise in the world , i mean the holy catholick church : which , omitting the various acceptations of the word church , as to our present purpose , is nothing else but a company of people united in the profession of the true faith of christ , and due use of the sacraments . i am not ignorant that the papists would fain foist in another requisite , to wit , under the obedience of the bishop of rame , the only vicar of christ upon earth . but to omit many other absurdities , i shall only instance at present in two : that hereby they exclude universality , which they put down as an essential note of the true church ; and charity , which i am sure is a certain badg of christ's true disciples . for by this very clause , they very ridiculously obtrude less than a fourth part for the whole ; and by excommunicating all the rest from the pale of the church , as much as in them lies , very mercifully doome greater , more antient and better churches than themselves to everlasting flames . to make this good , we will take our measures by the judicious observation of sir edwyn sands , who in his survey of europe , assures us that the greek church in number exceeds any other : and the protestants in multitude and extent of territory fall very little short of those that are under the papal yoke . so that here we have two four parts . to which add all the oriental christians , and those in the vast empire of prester john , or the abyssines , who are all out of the roman communion ; and questionless we shall find another fourth part. and thus we have three to one , even in the point of universality . i will put this out of all dispute by a particular induction . in asia we have multitudes of christians who have nothing to do with the pope . those of palestine are subject to the patriarch of jerusalem : the syrians , under him of antioch : the armenians and georgians have their own patriarchs . the circassians , and those of the lesser asia , are under him of constantinople : the jacobites and the christians of st. thomas have also their peculiar patriarchs . in africa , where we find any steps of christianity , the egyptians and cophtes are under the patriarch of alexandria ; the ethiopians or abyssines , which are innumerable , are under their own governours ecclesiastical . in europe , the greeks submit to the patriarch of constantinople . the spatious empire of the russians hath a patriarch at mosco . the kingdoms of england , scotland and ireland , denmark , swedeland , and the far greatest part of the united netherlands , switzerland , germany and hungaria , are subject to bishops and church-officers of their own , without any dependance upon him at rome . even in bohemia , poland , france , transylvania , some countreys of italy there are multitudes of reformed churches , which have nothing to do with the popes jurisdiction . and thus that large universality of power that the old gentleman at rome brags of , is at last shrunk away into spain , part of france , italy and poland , some of the cantons of switzerland , some of the low countreys and germany . and here you have a map of the papal universality . they boast indeed much of their new acquisitions in the indies : but ( not to examine by what right they invaded those countreys ) after such a brutish manner were those conversions made , driving the poor natives to baptisme , like herds of beasts to watering , that their own writers blush at recording it . and when all comes to all , it will appear , that they butcher'd more than they baptiz'd . bartholomaeus casa , a bishop that lived in those countreys , and acosta the jesuit , are sufficient witnesses in this matter . and since we are entred upon this much cryed up universality of the roman church , it will not be amiss to glance a little at those other claims and pretensions whereby she would impose her self on the world , for the onely , immaculate spouse of our blessed saviour . antiquity is much talked of , and it is a kind of universality in regard of time , as that before mentioned , was of place and persons . but how groundlesly the roman church appropriates and ingrosses it to her self , is too apparent from the novel tridentine constitutions and articles . and besides , it can be no discriminating note , in as much as it is applicable to things prophane as well as sacred ; even to paganism it self ; and to heresies ( many of which are as antient as the first century ) as well as to orthodox doctrine . and if we come down to practice , we shall find it far more feasible to discover the true church here or there at present , than to discern where it was in the constant series of many ages . history being one of the most obscure , intricate , tedious and fallacious principles , in this case , whereon we can possibly proceed . nor could any particular church or the catholick church it self at the beginning lay any claim to the title of being ancient . besides , the characteristical of truth is not so much to be antiqua , old , as prima , from the beginning from christ and his apostles : and such antiquity the church of england is very willing to be tryed by in every one of her articles . so that here are two conditions deficient , soli & semper : antiquity belongs not only to the true church , nor is it alwayes competible to it . to this is reducible their duration or continuance , but this is rejected in the same manner as their antiquity is : to which it is so near allyed . and here by the way we have a most satisfactory reply to that thred-bare demand , where was your religion before luther ? i will not at present use his answer , though very good ; that it was in the bible , where their 's never was . nor will i demand where theirs was before the late assembly at trent , some years after luther ? but i say it was by wonderful providence preserved all along down from the apostles dayes to ours , and so will be to the consummation of the world. so we need not turn over all the immense volumes of antiquity to give in a catalogue of visible professors of the reformation , ( and yet this may and hath been sufficiently done ) but our only task is to prove our religion the same which was taught by the blessed jesus and his apostles ; which can only be done by appealing to the sacred records of the gospel : and as for the professors , we have his promise that he will preserve a select company ( though sometimes living in a corrupt visible church , as wheat among tares , or the seven thousand in elisha's time that had not bowed their knees to baal . kings . . ) to his second coming ; though he hath not told us where to find them in every year . and therefore such as go about to demonstrate that such professors were not in being , do but attempt to enervate our saviours promise , and render themselves and christianity equally ridiculous . the multitude extent , and variety of their own professors is indeed matter of great ostentation ; and it hath in part been adverted to in the business of universality . but in truth it is so far from being a certain argument of the truth of their church , that it rather concludes the contrary . fear not little flock , sayes our saviour ; and strive to enter in at the straight gate . what shall we think of that time s. jerome speaks of , cum ingemuit orbis & mirabatur se factum arianum ? when , as vincentius lyrinensis speaks , in a manner all the latin bishops partly by force and partly by fraud , were deluded into arianisme ? it is indeed a note of anti-christ . revel . . that the whore shall sit upon many waters ; which waters are people , and nations and tongues . as for the name catholick , so often objected , we know that names have little weight with wise men ; that there were some hereticks who called themselves apostolical men ; that s. john in his apocalypse tells us there were such as had a name to live , but were dead ; and that bellarmine himself acknowledges , that if one only province should retain the true faith , yet might it be called catholick . the succession of bishops from the apostles times , is another very plausible topick , on which they much descant : and i confess it bore great sway with me for a long time , especially as to the validity of holy orders . yet upon mature deliberation i found more of pomp than real solidity in this pageant : though our ears are continually filled with clamour about it . for neither doth it agree only with the true church , since themselves acknowledge it among the greeks , ( as in the patriarchates of constantinople and alexandria : the former whereof derives from s. mark , the other down successively from s. andrew to this day : ) nor , if you will credit s. ambrese de paenit . l. . c. . is succession of persons so much to be heeded as succession of doctrin ; non habent haereditatem petri , qui fidem petri non habent . wherefore if the present roman church want the life and soul of true apostolical succession , to wit , apostolical doctrine , a meer local and titular succession is little worth . but the mischief is , that the visible succession of bishops in that sea , is not so glorious and uninterrupted as is pretended . and this is notorious in all monuments of history and antiquity , that it hath been fouly stained by simoniacal and violent entries upon the popedom ; by schismatical intrusions , and by a perfect alteration of the very form and substance of election appointed by the apostles , and practised in the primitive church . for either s. peter named his successor , or he was chosen by the clergy alone , or else by the clergy and people , and then confirmed by the emperour . but now he is chosen by a pack of cardinals , a sort of clergy altogether unheard of in primitive ages , all created by popes themselves , some in favour to their kindred , others in faction , and to curry kindness with some christian princes , especially those of france , and the house of austria , who alwayes have their creatures very busie in the conclave ; most of them as fit for clergy-men as s. peter was for a courtier , as my lord of hereford speaks in his legacy ; a spruce , delicate , effeminate clergy : ( and the world talks far worse things of them ) very fit persons for the choice of s. peters infallible successor . the truth is , this boasted succession is so weak a support to the roman cause , that their most confident champions could never so much as pretend the very shadow of divine authority for it . alphonsus à castro and others very frankly acknowledge it is not de fide , a matter of faith , that this or that , or the present pope is s. peter's successor . but of this more by and by . nor is there the least agreement in ecclesiastical history concerning the immediate successor of s. peter . some put linus next , some clemens , some cletus . and it is a most miserable shift that bellarmin is put to , and below his great wit , to affirm the business may be thus composed ; that s. peter left his episcopal seat to clement : but clement , when s. peter was dead , out of his humility would not ascend the chair , as long as linus and cletus were living , who had been the coadjuters of s. peter in his episcopal function : so linus succeeded s. peter , cletus to linus , and clemens to cletus . but if s. peter left his chair to clement , how comes this apostolical constitution to be abolished , and why do not the popes now design their successors , but leave a matter of so high consequence to the factious canvassing of the haughty ambitious cardinals ? how durst clement refuse the charge ; intrusted to him by so great an apostle , and that only out of a compliment ? a man that duly ponders this circumstance , might very well conclude it to be a most remarkable providence of god , and intended for the humbling of that proud church , that when they come to make good their claim to that exorbitant , unlimited authority they at this day exercise in the christian world , they should stumble at the very threshold , as we say , and fail in the very first name of their vaunted catalogue . in a word , all things here are dark and in a riddle , and afford not sufficient matter even to ground an implicit faith upon . but what shall we think of those long and frequent vacations in that see for some years together ? and schisms for nay years ? which was a long vacation indeed ; for it is bellarmin's rule , an uncertain pope is accounted for none at all . nay many and great authors have put a woman into the succession ; many of their bishops have been hereticks , and this makes another interruption : even occult heresie rendering the pope , ipso sacto , none . let cardinal baronius , a man of undoubted authority with them , serve instead of a thousand witnesses . he , treating of the year of our lord , , thus represents the wretched , deformed face of that church . how filthy a time was it when whores bare all the sway at rome ? at their pleasure sees were changed , bishopricks disposed of , and which is most horrible and scarce to be uttered , their gallants were thrust into the seat of peter . we find no where any mention of clergy choosing or giving consent , all canons were put to silence , the pontifical decrees were choaked , antient traditions proscribed , and all sacred rites extinguished . thus had lust gotten every thing into its own hand . where did this uninterrupted succession sleep all this while ? well near years together , saies the same annalist , did these monstrous abuses continue . certainly if discontinuance of time , or illegal entry can marr a succession , this of the romish church is sufficiently spoiled . benedict the th was a boy of years old . john the th . a hectoring lad not above . john the th . was set up by that infamous strumpet theodora : and her daughter marozia by force of arms deposed him . john the th . was bastard to sergius by marozia , and was violently intruded into the popedome by his mother . it is not so much the wickedness of these popes lives , as the manner of their creation , that we urge to invalidate the succession . above popes were thus installed successively for those years : besides many other occasions , frequently occurring in history , wherein this applauded succession hath been very notably disturbed . to which if we adjoin the schisms , wherein and popes have been set up in opposition to one another ; the matter will be out of all controversie . one of these schisms , viz. that between clement and urban lasted for years , till the duke of savoy was elected pope by the council of basil , to put a period to that fatal tragedy . and many of these competitors had such learned advocates and patrons , that bellarmin cannot assign which was the true pope . — pudet haec opprobria vobis — et dici potuisse et non potuisse reselli . their unity is no less bragg'd of , than their universality and succession ; and with as little justice ; for unity without truth and sincere charity is but a conspiracy or confederation . i find revel . . . that in the kingdome of anti-christ , they are of one mind , and make war with the lamb. and the devils themselves in the possess'd person could unite into a legion . and if we a little better consider this pretended roman unity , it will soon be discovered to be purely slavish and enforced : an unity of fear more than of affection ; a product of the inquisition rather than of charity . bellarmin seems to intimate as much ; they cannot think otherwise , saith he , because they have subjugated their sence to the sence of another ; meaning the pope . nor yet is this their unity , let the quality of it be what it will , so compleat as they would make us believe . how do the jansenists and jesuits at this day hug one another ? the large order of the dominicans look upon the jesuits as no better then semi-pelagians in the doctrine of grace and free will : and the jesuits to requite them call them calvinists . the seculars and regulars how unanimous they are , appears by their continual clashing . and those who are throughly acquainted with their customs , may easily perceive that there are as many sects and factions in point of opinion , as there are religious orders in that church ; and in point of charity and affection as many parties as there are religious houses . but as for that real unity , which according to dominie . bannes , in . . q. . a. . consists in having one god and christ for our king , in being governed by the same holy law , in having the same faith , hope and charity , the same heavenly example , one worship in spirit and in truth , one communion or communication of the members ; which is the unity of that church which includes all the faithful from the beginning of the world to the end , &c. in short , such an unity as the holy scriptures require , in being derived from one beginning , which is the holy ghost , who as one soul quickens and moves all the parts : in having one head which is jesus christ : and in being but one body , partaking the same doctrine , sacraments and worship of god : this unity by god's grace all true protestants breath after , as may apparently be evinced by the harmony of their confessions ; although in points of smaller importance there may be some little differences : and most of their dissentions are rather verbal then real . as to the sanctity of that church , let but the lives of the roman bishops be perused , written by their own authors ( a noysomer sink and kennel of abomination can never be raked up in all antiquity : some atheists , some conjurers , some adulterers , murderers , incestuous , sodomites , sim●niacks , and what not ? ) the manners and conversation of their clergy , religious men and women , so heinously tax'd and inveigh'd against by those famous writers of their own side , s. bernard , nic. clemangis , alvar , pelagius , claud. espencaeus , &c. and at least they will have little cause so boldly to challenge , and appropriate it to themselves above all their neighbours . these things are sufficiently known to any that have viewed their doctors , or conversed even with their modern practices : ( though themselves are very much amended since the reformation . ) but i love not to tell stories out of the school , and i promised at first to refrain from personal reflections . there are books enough on this subject , and the world talks sufficiently loud of it . if all the precedent prerogatives signifie nothing , at last we must be over-born by whole legions of innumerable miracles that are obtruded upon our credit . but so spurious , so ridiculous , so impious many of them , that the more modest and discreet among themselves dare not own them . their best writers affirm , that miracles are not necessary for the being of a church , but onely for the begetting of a new faith , or an extraordinary mission . nay i may add not for an extraordinary mission neither ; as we may see in many of the prophets of the old testament , of whose miracles not one word is mentioned . nor are they at all to be expected from or by the protestants , who neither profess a new faith nor an extraordinary mission . the miracles of our saviour , his apostles and the first age of the church , are sufficient seals to the doctrine they own . and as for those so importunately urged by the romanists , they are but too often convinced to be meer juggles , contrivances for filthy lucre , sleights to uphold some gainful doctrine , or to advance the reputation of some particular place or religious order , done in a corner ; of a far different nature from those of our b. saviour , and rather of the same stamp with those the apostle speaks of . thess. . . belonging to him , who comes with all power and signs and lying wonders : and revel . . . who doth great wonders , so that he makes fire come down from heaven on earth in the sight of men. a man that duly ponders the most palpable cheats and impostures of this kind daily practised in the church of rome for these by-respects , would almost be of mr. chillingworth's mind , that it cannot be sufficiently made out , that ever so much as a lame horse was cured by way of miracle in confirmation of any popish tenet . some insist much on the outward prosperity , pomp , splendour and magnificence of their church . to this the wise man hath given an answer , eccles. . . our works are in the hand of god , and no man knows either love or hatred by all that is before him . nay , our saviour puts it down as a mark of the false church . joh. . . verily i say unto you , that you shall weep and lament , but the world shall rejoyce . it remains then , that the onely certain and evident marks of a true apostolical church are , the sincere preaching of god's word , and a due administration of the sacraments . to which may be annexed ecclesiastical discipline ; but this is reducible to the other two . these are all that the holy scriptures afford us . matth. . . go and teach all nations , baptizing them in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost ; teaching them to observe all things whatever i have commanded you . act. . . and they continued stedfastly in the apostles doctrin and fellowship , and in breaking of bread , and prayers . having thus survey'd the roman church in general , it will hardly be thought good manners , if we neglect his holiness the pope in particular , or as some are pleased to flatter him , the church virtual . for what ever stir● and bastle they make about the church their mother , the plain english of their meaning is nothing but the pope their father . it is the express doctrin of s. thomas aquinas ( and his doctrin in that church is little less than canonized ) . . q. . a. . that the making of a true creed belongs to the pope ; as all other things do which belong to the whole church : and that the whole authority of the universal church abides in him . . . q. . a. . thus as they take all authority and sufficiency from the scripture and give it to the church , so all the churche's authority they attribute to the pope . gregorius de valentia , one of the learnedst jesuits , tells us plainly , that by the church they mean its head ; that is to say , the roman bishop , in whom resides the full authority of the church , when he pleases to determin matters of faith , whether he d th it with a council or without . bellarmine teaches , that the pope himself without any council may decree matters of faith. bannes affirms , that the authority of the universal church , the authority of a council , and the authority of the pope , are one and the same thing . the canon law in sext. extrav . johan . . c. cum inter . in gloss. speaks thus , it is heresie to think our lord god the pope may not decree as he doth . and distinct. . in canon . his rescripts and decretal epistles are canonical scripture . all which passages clearly convince us what is the meaning of those perpetual braggs of the catholick church . his holyness must excuse me , if , being no courtier , i address not my self to him in the phrase of the roman inscription to paul the v. yet to be seen in that city , saluting him as a vice-god , and the stout assertor of the pontifical omnipotency : or as the gloss of the canon law in their last and best editions , viz. the roman , , and parisian , . our lord god the pope . waving therefore these ceremonies , i shall summarily consider his authority , both what he pretends to , and what it really is . and here starts forth a material difficulty , even at our first setting out : namely , whether s. peter , whence all this power and soveraignty is pretended , were himself bishop of rome , or were indeed ever at rome ? i will not deny either , because i know many of the antients plead for both . but the point being onely grounded on humane authority ( for divine authority seems rather to contradict it ) i. e. ecclesiastical history ; and the differences among the reporters being so many and so considerable , both in chronology and divers other weighty circumstances ; and the probabilities that are produced against it being not altogether contemptible , i hope a man may be excused from being a damn'd hererick , if he do not believe it to be a fundamental article of faith ( the article of the standing or falling church , sayes a modern famous controvertist ) and consequently hath a meaner esteem for all that prodigious train of positions , which are thence deduced . these following inducements make it at least doubtful whether s. peter ever was bishop of rome , or was ever there . for his ever having been at rome , we do not much stand upon it . but the reasons and testimonies brought out of humane histories ( which onely mention it ) are so uncertain and involv'd with such difficulties , as may make any man deservedly question it . vellenus hath published several demonstrations that he was never there . and those authorities of the fathers that are alleged for it are so various , that the learned'st romanists cannot r. concile them . marsilius patavinus in his defens . pacis , part . . c. . sayes , by scripture it cannot be made out , either that s. peter was bishop of rome , or that he was ever there at all : and when he considers the ecclesiastical historians that affirm it , he doth it so , that it is evident he doth not believe them . it is true , s. peter in his . ep. c. . . writes as from babylon ; but that babylon was in assyria . for though in the apocalyptical visions , rome is designed by babylon ; yet in a plain epistolary salutation there was no reason at all for such a trope . nor doth s. paul or s. luke , who make frequent mention of rome , ever call it babylon . there is indeed an old chair at rome , pretended to be s. peter's , and on certain daies it is shewn to the people ; as likewise a sepulchre , and certain parts of his body as relicks . but the jugling and imposture with reliques and such like trumpery is so well known , that the world hath long since lessen'd her credit to such monuments . nor hath it been the lowest part of rome's policy for many ages with feigned miracles , counterfeit relicks , and forged records and legends to raise in the vulgar an opinion of her holiness , and so maintain her grandeur . but we have been too long on this impertinency . whether he was ever bishop of rome , deserves our stricter examination . holy writ seems not silent here , as in the former case , but fully opposite . s. peter and s. paul by the instinct of the holy ghost made an accord that s. peter should preach to the jews , and s. paul to the gentiles . whereupon in the sacred text s. peter's peculiar title is , the apostle of the circumcision : and consequent to his charge we see , that he wrote his epistles to the scatter'd jews : neither did he direct any to , or date any from rome . so that it is incredible he should be bishop or resident there for years . whereas s. paul was the great doctor and apostle of the gentiles , and both writ to the romans , and taught and was imprisoned at rome for several years , as is evident from scripture . again , the authours of this story ( the first whereof were probably papias and dionysius , the one too credulous and erroneous , the other a counterfeit ) are wholly at a loss in declaring when s. peter came to rome , how long he sat there , when he dyed , and who were his successours . and the most tolerable account that is given by the best writers , how s. peter , the th year after christ's passion , went to antioch , and there fix'd his episcopal see for years , thence removed to rome , and there continued years ; is no waies coherent with what is related of s. peter , galat . . & . act. . & . from which places it is manifest , that s peter's most usual abode was at jerusalem , at least till the th year after christ's death , and the th of s. paul's conversion . nor is it likely that s. peter setled his chair at antioch so long , since galat. . we read only of his passing by there ; and that he was so far from behaving himself as their bishop , that he seems to have understood little of the affairs of that church , till s. paul had rightly informed him in the . to the romans st. paul salutes very many by name , yet takes not the least notice of s. peter , nor gives them the least account where he was , or how he did : which seems something odd , if s. peter had then been their soveraign pastor . and when s. paul was himself at rome , and writ diverse epistles in the reign of nero ( at which time bellarmin would have s. peter to have been at rome ) though he make mention of many others of inferior rank , yet not one syllable of s. peter . nay he generally denies that there was any such present with him . colos. . . and tim. . . he grievously complains that at his first answer , when he appeared before nero , all men forsook him . and when s. paul came first to rome , the jews there , who were s. peter's peculiar charge , seemed to know nothing of the gospel . act. . thus s. peter must be bishop of rome years , and yet never be at rome , when ever the scripture mentions the roman church : and s. paul could never find him there , though he is reported to be martyred there at the same time with him . we see then upon how tottering a foundation this mighty fabrick depends : i mean , how justly questionable the papal monarchy is , even in matter of fact , and to its very an sit . but perhaps it may plead better for it self in point of right and equity . we will briefly here inquire into two things . . what authority s. peter had . . what authority the pope pretends to derive from him , and how justly . that our lord and saviour never intended such an absolute , arbitrary , soveraign , monarchical government in his church , as the pope at this day exercises both over clergy and layity , is as evident in the gospel as any truth there contained . matth. . . you know , saith christ , that the princes of the gentiles exercise dominton over them , &c. but it shall not be so among you : whosoever will be great among you , let him be your servant . and the apostle , eph. . . reckoning up the whole sacred oeconomy , ministry and government of the church , le ts not fall one word concerning a visible monarch : he gave some apostles , some prophets , some evangelists , some pastors and teachers ; for the perfecting of the saints , for the edifying of the body of christ. and when he recommends unity , by reason of one body , one spirit , one hope , one faith , one baptism , one lord , there is no mention at all of any pontifical monarch . in all the new testament there is not any one called the head of the church , but only our blessed saviour . eph. . . god hath put all things under his feet , and given him to be head over all things to his church . and chap. . . grow up to him in all things , who is the head , even christ. colos. . . he is the head of the body , the church . wherefore they are highly injurious to our saviour who set up any other . nor do protestant princes take themselves to be heads of their own particular churches , in any other sence than the good kings of israel and juda were ; to defend the orthodox religion , and maintain good order and discipline in the church ; and take cognizance of abuses crept in among any persons ecclesiastical or civil , and reform what they find amiss , according to the canon of the scripture , by the advice of their chief clergy . and not as the papists impertinently object concerning q. elizabeth , that she had assumed power to preach , administer the sacraments &c. and all this , as i said before , is the undoubted right of soveraign princes in their own territories , and was practised by the good princes under the old law , with great commendation and reward . it was likewise promised to the new , that kings should be nursing fathers , and queens nursing mothers to the church . in fine , that paternal wisdom and providence of god , which so plentifully revealed to us all matters of importanee for our own private good , for the being or well-being of his church ; ( and certainly this great pretended jurisdiction most be of that nature ) that the most curious inquirer can desire nothing more ; and which did under the mosaical dispensation so exactly describe the condition and power of the high priest , even to the minute circumstances of his garments ; so that none could be so stupid among the jews , but if he read the books of moses , he might sufficiently understand that there was a high priest constituted , and what authority he had ; would certainly have left us some intimation of the like regiment under the gospel , had there been any such matter to be expected . whereas on the contrary we cannot there find so much as the name or title of any such dignity , nor of any seat appointed for his residence ; no singular office is assigned to him above others , no ensigns of soveraignty are recorded , whereby he might be distinguished from others , no manner of succession is provided for ; nor is there the least practice or exercise of such a singular absolute power so much as hinted at in the whole new testament . and therefore we may justly conclude it to be an upstart usurpation , and no authority of divine institution . there are but two passages in scripture that with any tollerable shew can be made use of , to countenance this supremacy that is so much urged to be conferred on s. peter , and intayled on his successors . the one , wherein it seems to be promised ; the other , wherein they say it was actually bestowed . the first is that famous place , the achilles of the roman cause . matth. . , . thou art peter and upon this rock will i build my church , and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it . and i will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven ; and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven , and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven . these words which they think so plain and obvious , do yet contain two metaphors of a rock and the keys ; and i cannot find in any other part of scripture that they are explained in the romanists sence , simply and without a metaphor . i am sure they were not so easie to the aposiles themselves , nor did they understand thereby any principality intended for s. peter ; as appears by sundry contentions among them , after these words were spoken , who should be the chiefest . nor can the antient fathers , good men , discover any such energy or prerogative in them for s peter , or the pope . for our saviour doth not plainly and literally affirm that he will build his church upon s. peter , but upon the rock which he confess'd : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , upon this rock : not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , upon this peter . non dictum est illi , tu es petra , sed tu es petrus : petra autem erat christus . it was not said to him , thou art the rock , but thou art peter : for the rock was christ : says s. augustin , retract . l. c. . the same father in his tract . on s. joh. & ser. . dever . dom. thus paraphrases this text : upon this rock which thou hast confessed ; upon this rock which thou hast acknowledg'd , ( saying , thou art christ the son of the living god ) will i build my church : that is , upon my self , the son of the living god will i build my church : i will build thee upon me , not me upon thee . for the rock was christ , whereon peter himself was built . i am punctual in citing this great doctor and father of the church , because the romanists give out that they desire to stand to the alone judgment of this learned father . the holy martyr s. cyprian could not apprehend any such intrigue in these words . l. de unit. eccles. the rest of the apostles , saith he , were the same that peter was , being endowed with an equal share both of honour and power . nor s. ambrose , serm. . s. peter and paul were eminent among the apostles , and it is doubtful which is to he preferred before the other . s. hillary . l. . de trin. s. chrysost. hom . . in matth. euseb. emissen . greg. the great . v. beda . haymo , the gloss of gratian , lyra , and a multitude of others , understand the text of s. matthew , as s. augustin doth . cardinal cusanus l. . c. . concord . cath. is very positive , that nothing was here said to s. peter , but what was said to the rest of the apostles and the words of sixtus senensis , a very learned pontifician , biblioth . l. . are worth our notice . we believe and acknowledge with a sure faith , that christ is the first and chief foundation of the whole ecclesiastical edifice : but we also affirm that upon this foundation there are other rocks lay'd , namely peter and the rest of the apostles , whom john in the apocalypse names the twelve foundations of the heavenly jerusalem . in sum , i find three interpretations of these words among the antients : viz. that christ is the rock : that the confession , faith and doctrine of christ is the rock ; and that s. peter himself as an apostle , is metonymically a partial rock . all which meanings agree very well together , but nothing favour the supremacy that the romanists desire . nor do the protestants deny s. peter a primacy of authority and spiritual jurisdiction over the church as an apostle : or in respect of his fellow apostles a primacy of order , calling , graces , gifts , courage , &c. or that he was a ministerial rock . but since the rock and the keys signifie the same thing , to wit , the power of binding and loosing ; which matth. . . is expresly promised to all the apostles ; and the same words , of binding and loosing are there used , which were before to s. peter : and after the resurrection , john . . the same power was amply bestowed on all the apostles equally , and their successors : he breathed on his disciples , saying : as my father sent me , even so send i you ▪ receive you the holy ghost , whose sins you retain they are retained , and whose sins you remit they are remitted ; so that no mans jurisdiction came from peter to him , but every one had it alike and equally from our savióur , who sent him : and since s. paul assures us ephes. . . that we are built upon the foundation of the apostles ( in general ) and prophets : jesus christ himself being the chief corner-stone : and s. anselm well comments on s. m●th . . this power was not given alone to peter , but as peter answered o●●●●●● all , so in peter he gave this power to all : this text will not evince s. p●ter to have been constituted the universal monarch of christs church : nor in the whole series of divine history do we meet with any monarch-like action of his recorded . ●●t ●n the contrary , we read that he was sent as a messenger by the rest of the apostles , act. . . that he gave the right hand to s. paul and bar●●●● . galat. . . that he was accused to the other disciples , pleaded his ●●●● before them , and submitted to their judgment . acts. . . &c. and that s. paul withstood him to his face , finding that he walk'd not uprightly ●●●●rding to the truth of the gospel . galat. . , . thus far they think this soveraignty was only promised . in s. joh. . . where christ said to peter , feed my sheep : they teach that this power was absolutely delivered and confirmed . but neither was this charge so lay'd on s. peter , that the rest were excluded . for they g●●nt that no more was here given , than what was promised , m●th . . where the keys are mentioned . now we have evidently proved that all the apostles were equal in the power of the keys ; and that those wor●s concern s peter no more than the other disciples . in scripture phrase the word , feed , when it is accommodated to ecclesiastical functions , is the same as to teach . they shall feed them with knowledge and understanding , saies the prophet jeremy . and then we shall find the same command and commission given to all the apostles . matth. . . go and teach all nations , &c. b●sid●s , since all the apostles had before been sent as shepherds to feed the flock . muth . . . & . . and were afterwards furnished with more full instructions , and abilities to the same end , muth . . john . which they executed most diligently and couragiously , as appears by their acts and epistles ; no man can reasonably deny but that pas●e oves , feed my sheep , belong'd to them as well as to s. peter : and they themselves gave the same duty in charge to other pastors . act. . . take heed to your selves and to all the flock , over which the holy ghost hath made you overseers , to feed the church of god which he hath purchased with his own blood . neither would s. peter ingross this privilege to himself , but communicated it to others . pet. . . feed the flock of god that is among you . s. cyprian de unit. ecclis . speaks home they are all pasters , but the flock is one , which by one consent is fed by all the apostles . and s. chrysostom l. . de sacerdotio , our saviour at that time intended to teach both peter and us , how dear his church is to him , &c. this is a true , short and plain account of s. peter's authority ; both what was given him by our saviour , and what was exercised by himself . but , alas , this is too scant for his pretended successour , as we shall now manifest . and i shall be a little more exact in this seasonable argument because that i know many of our english roman catholicks will not believe that this vast , unlimited power is owned by their church ; but is onely the product of the flattery of private doctors , and the pope's particular parasites . i will onely mention how the usurpings , innovations and incroachments of the roman bishops have been constantly opposed by the greatest part of christendom in all ages . in the first general council of nice , he was consined to his own particular district ; as the patriarch of alexandria and others were to theirs . in the first general councils of constantinople and ephesus , the provinces of the world were distinguished , and the patriarchs restrained to their own circuits , and he of constantinople is by name made equal to him of rome in all ecclesiastical matters . he of rome had indeed the chief honour ; but that consisted not in jurisdiction , but in sitting in the first place , and such like ti●les . the council of chalcedon confirms the same decrees , and adds withal , our fathers gave the privileges to the seat of elder rome ; because that city had the empire : and the bishops assembled at the council of constantinople moved with the same reason , gave the same privilege to the most sacred throne of new rome : thinking it reasonable , that the city which is honoured with the empire and senate , should also have equal privileges with elder rome , and in ecclesiastical matters be advanced alike with her . another council at constantinople enacted the same . but the council of carthage , anno . consisting of bishops , is most worthy of our remark . in this council , when sozymus bishop of rome claimed a right to receive appeals from all parts of the world , and pretended a canon of the nicene council that should give it him : the bishops strongly debated the matter , and having searched the original copies of the nicene council , whereby the untruth of his claim was discovered , they wrote sharply to him , not to meddle any more with their provinces , nor admit into his fellowship such as they had excommunicated . telling him he had nothing to do in their causes , either to bring them to rome , or to send legats to hear them at home : and that this pretence of his was expresly against the nicene council . the evidence of this great testimony stands to this day unanswerable by the roman party . it is abundantly known how pope stephen was sleighted by s. cyprian ; and victor by the bishops of the east . but this is an infinite theme , and i must not forget my promised brevity . i shall onely request the gentlemen of the roman-catholick persuasion , seriously to lay to heart what trivial grounds this grand article of their church , the pope's supremacy , even in ecclesiastical affairs , is founded upon ; and to consider how many difficulties must be cleared to make it a probable tale. . that s. peter was bishop of rome . . that he dyed at rome by the special command of christ. . that he dyed invested with such a supremacy , as is now exercised in that church . . that his so dying there is sufficient ( without a new revelation from god ) to make the succession of the bishop of rome of divine authority . we shall now take a view of that grand machine of the pope's power over temporal princes , and make it most evident , that it is an article and doctrin of the roman church ; and being so , that this alone were a sufficient motive to forsake her communion , since she teaches justifies and strictly commands ( even under the penalty of being accounted no christians ) treason and rebellion . the present lord bishop of lincoln hath written a learned and satisfactory treatise on this subject , and i find his lordship very faithful in his citations . wherefore i may be the more sparing . however , because i heartily desire , that honoured , pious and loyal persons may not unwarily ingage their liberties , estates and lives for the maintainance of so extravagant and tyrannical a power , which hath in all ages caused so many disinal tragedies in the christian world , and is in it self fatal and destructive to all civil government , i shall briefly treat of this matter , to undeceive others : especially since i was herein miserably seduced my self , till i had maturely and exactly examined the whole business . i shall begin with general councils , whose decrees if they will not admit , i confess i as yet understand not what the doctrin of the roman church is , nor do i know where to find it . the third council of lateran , c. . after it had condemned and excommunicated many hereticks , ( and you must know that all protestants are both accounted so , and as such , are once every year solemnly accursed by his holyness in person on maundy thursday : ) it absolves all that had sworn fidelity or homage to them , from those oaths ( and we know who they are , to whom fidelity and homage , strictly speaking , is due : ) and they are required in order to the remission of their sins , to fight against them . and those who dye doing penance in that manner , may undoubtedly expect indulgence for their sins , with eternal rewards . then by the authority of s. peter and paul , the council remits to all who shall rise and fight against them , two years penance . here a general council uses all its industry to poyson people with rebellious doctrin , and calls treason , doing of penance . not long after , pope celestin , predecessor to innocent the third . with more than luciferian arrogance , sets the crown on the head of the emperour henry the th with his two feet , and then kicks it off again . and the fact is produced by no meaner a person than cardinal baronius , to shew that it is in the pope's power to give and take away empires . but to as much purpose as he produced that text , rise peter , kill and eat ; to incense paul the th against the venetians . the second evidence shall be the fourth great , and , as they call it , most general council of lateran , wherein were assembled of one sort or other . these , c. . make a decree , that the aid of secular princes should be required for the rooting out of hereticks ( i. e , all that are not of the roman communion ) and that when the temporal lord , required and admonished by the church , shall neglect to purge his territory from heretical wickedness , he shall be excommunicated by the metropolitan and his suffragans . and if he persist in neglecting to give satisfaction for the space of a year , let him be signified to the pope , that he from thenceforth may pronounce his subjects discharged from their obedience , and expose his territory to be seized on by catholicks , who having exterminated the hereticks , shall possess it without contradiction , and preserve it in the purity of the faith. so as no injury be done to the right of the supreme lord , where there is such ; provided he do not any ways oppose himself . and the law is to take place in them who have no superiour lord. — which last clause perfectly comprehends soveraign princes , and so anticipates that reply which some make , that the decree was only made for feudatory and subordinate princes . and whereas some few deny it to be a general council , and that it made any canons ; it is a most impudent cavil . for both the council and canons have been and are universally received by the roman church : the council as general , and approved so by innocent the iii. and the canons as authentick . all their writers concerning councils put this down among the general ones , ●●●● commonly call it the great general council of lateran : and joverius says , he cannot see with what face a man dare deny it . they always put it among those councils that are approved by the church : for you must know that some are reprobated , some are partly approbated and partly reprobated . their canon law so esteems of it . the council of constance puts it among those general councils , to the observation whereof the popes were to swear at their installment . the council of trent , which i hope none will boggle at , sess . c. . in express terms calls it a general council , and confirms one of its canons . to which i may add , because it concerns us , a synod at oxford , where this council was received for england . and though some princes that were deposed out of the pope's meer spite and malice , got some advocates to write for them , and synods of bishops to protest against the pope's proceedings : yet in the case of pretended heresie , ( which neerly touches protestant princes ) not one writer or bishop appears in vindication of the temporal power . a shrewd sign that this deposing heretical magistrates , is in general the romish doctrine . the general council of lions is next . it was summoned by innocent the th , against the emperour frederick the d . here the pope having consulted with the council , declares the emperour deprived by god of his dominions : and thereupon they actually depose him , and absolve all from their oaths of fidelity to him : strictly charging all persons to acknowledge him no more for emperour , and denouncing all that did otherwise , excommunicated ipso facto . so we have another whole general council concurring with the pope in asserting this deposing power , and with candles burning in their hands , thundering out sentence against the poor emperour . in the council of constance , sess. . we often meet with this clause , that all breakers of their privileges , whether emperours , kings , or any other degree , were thereby ipso facto subjected to the banns , punishments and censures in the council of lateran : and sess. . in the pass they gave to the king of arragon , they decree , that whatsoever person , either king , cardinal , &c. hinder him in his journey , he is ipso sacto deprived of all honour , dignity , office or benefice , whether ecclesiastical or secular . it is true , with much importunity and danger , gerson procured a decree in this council that no subject should murder his prince . but that practice was only condemned in such as did it , without waiting the sentence of any judge whatsoever . so that if sentence be past by the spiritual judge , notwithstanding this decree , a prince may be assassinated . but there is a further mystery in it . for a king once declared to be no more such , i. e. being deposed , he then becomes a rebel and an usurper , according to their principles , and then it is lawful to kill him . the council of siena confirms all the former decrees made against hereticks ; and the favourers of heresie are declared liable to all pains and censures of hereticks : and consequently to the greatest of them , viz. deposition . the council at basil rati●●s the decree of constance by which , emperours and kings , that presumed to hinder any from coming to the council , are subjected to excommunication , interdicts , and other punishments spiritual and temporal . finally , the council of trent ▪ though the world was then much changed , and they durst not trample on crowned heads as formerly , yet they would still be nibling at this sweet morsel , as near as they could , and still endeavoured , though covertly , to continue the claim to this deposing authority . for in the decree against d●els , sess. . c. . they declare , if any emperours and kings , &c. did assign a field for a combate , they did thereby lose their right to that place , and the city , castle , or other places about it . if councils then , as surely they are , be fit deliverers of the churches sence , we have here no less than seven general councils to prove this to be the churche's doctrine . for my own part , i can see no ways they can extricate themselves , but either by confessing their church hath erred , or by obstinately going on in a most wretched justification of such damnable tenents and practices . there is nothing more to do in this business , but by way of surplusage to give a general touch at these following particulars . by the book of the sacred ceremonies ( which is authentick and of great esteem with the church of rome ) the emperour as soon as he sees the pope , must bare-headed , bow , till his knee touch the ground , and worship the pope : coming nearer he must bow again , and when he comes to the pope he must bow a third time , and devoutly kiss the pope's toe . the same book informs us that the pope never gives any reverence to any mortal , either by rising up , or uncovering or bowing his head . that the emperour must hold the pope's stirrup till he gets on horseback and then lead the horse for some paces . and some mean spirited emperors have de facto performed these slavish offices . the emperour must swear fealty to the pope , and be his hector to maintain all his rights and honours . that horrid extravagant of boniface . viii . makes it absolutely necessary to salvation ; that all christians be subject to the pope ; who hath both the swords , and judgeth all men , and is judged of none . and the gloss upon that extravagant dares to say our saviour had not done discreetly , unless he had left such a vicar behind him . bz●vius an approved and applauded author in that communion , tells us the pope is monarch of all christians , supreme over all mortals , there lyes no appeal from him , he is the great arbitrator of the world. istodorus m●scomus , vicar general to the arch-bishop of bononia , and a great lawyer , terms the pope the universal judge , king of kings , lord of lords , and saies that god's tribunal and the pope's are one and the same , that they have the same consistory , and therefore all other powers are his subjects , that the pope is judged of none but god , not of the emperour , kings , clergy or laity . pope innocent the third , extra . de major . gives this description of the papal power , that it is as much greater than the imperial , as the sun is than the moon . and the gloss saies that is times greater : but the note in the margin puts times : nay there is an author that adds times . this decr●tal of innocent the iii. and the forecited extravagant of boniface viii . are both put into the body of the canon law. it would be endless to enumerate the romish authors that defend this prodigious power of deposing kings . bellarmin , suarez , sa mariana , maintain and prove this doctrine . nor do i know one jesuit that teaches the contrary . and it is very well worth our notice what an odd kind of answer mr. fisher gave to king james , who demanded of him what he thought subjects ought to do in the case of the pope's deposing a prince ? the jesuit gives this sly return : i will pray for peace and tranquillity between both parties ; i will exhort all to do good offices conducing thereto , and will rather dye than any wayes be accessory to your majestie 's death . and no more could be got from him but this compliment . but else where he told the king more plainly , that he disclaimed any singular opinion of his own , or more than the definitions of councils and consent of divines did force him to hold . and what those are , we have pretty well discovered . the canonists , casuists and schoolmen are generally , if not universally of this opinion , some teach that it is evident to all , that emperors are to be deprived and deposed by the pope , not onely for things pertaining to faith , but for manners , others , that the secular power is subject to the spiritual , and that it is no usurpation , if the spiritual judge the secular : and that the pope hath supreme power over christian kings and princes and may correct , depose and put others in their places : that he may deprive a king of royal dignity for heresie , schisme or any intolerable crime , negligence or lazyness ; if in great matters he break his oath , or oppress the church , and several other cases : and that the pope himself is sole judge both of the crime and of the condemnation . and bzovius de pontifice , rom. c. . p. . gives us a catalogue of above kings and princes who have de facto been deposed , or by anathema's damn'd by the pope . they count them martyrs that dye for the maintaining this power ; which cannot be unless they esteem it an article of faith. and we have a late instance of f. paul magdalen , alias henry heath , a learned and in his way pious , franciscan , who was put to death by the long parliament about the year . who just before his execution being desired to give his judgment of the oath of allegiance ( which chiefly concerns our present purpose ) declared it absolutely unlawful , and that he would as soon lay down his life for the refusal of it , as for any article of the roman belief . eman. sa is not ashamed to publish that if a clergy man rebell against his king it is no treason , because clergy men are not the kings subjects . aphorism . confess . verbo clericus . others , ( though i will not say this is so generally taught ) that faith is not to be kept with hereticks . and if my memory fail not , the famous navar hath written a whole tract in defence of equivocation and mental reservation , and takes upon him the defence of the noble society of jesus , as he calls them , for universally teaching it : and to my knowledge practising it . it were very easy to collect these corollaries out of the canon law , and the decretal of boniface the viii . that emperors and kings are the popes subjects ; that they may be deposed for heresie and any great sin : that the pope hath power over the whole world in spirituals and temporals , and that he hath this temporal power in a more worthy , superior and perfect manner than temporal princes : that statutes made by lay men do not bind the clergy : that it is necessary to salvation to be subject to the pope , and he who affirms the contrary is no christian ; without any hope or possibility of salvation . a most pious and charitable rhapsody of canonical theology ! now you must understand that this canon law is approved , received and obeyed in that church , as the rule of justice in all their courts and consistories . in this we further learn , that the holy church by her frequent authority , absolves subjects from their oaths to superiors ; and it exemplifies in pope zachary , who deposed the king of france , not so much for his iniquity as for his unprofitableness . and cardinal turrecremata in his comment on this canon proves that subjects , if they have the popes consent may depose their kings . the bulls os many popes against the princes both of our own and other nations , are too well known , and may at any time be seen in the roman bullary . to draw to a conclusion in this odious matter . our country man creswell the jesuite in his philopater . sect . . affirms , that it is the opinion of all catholicks , that subjects are bound to depose an heretical king : that they are obliged by the law of god , by the most strick bonds of conscience and utmost peril of their souls to do this . bellarmine de rom. pontif. l. . c. . assures us , it is the consent of all roman catholicks , that heretical princes , may and ought to be deprived of their dominions . and the english cardinal allen , speaking how s. thomas defended this position , and how cardinal tolet expounds him , adds these words of his own ( in his answer to the book of english justice ) thus doth this notable school-man write : neither do we know any catholick divine of any age to say the contrary . if now , the testimonies of their own most eminent writers , their established laws and canons , their authentick papal bulls and decretal constitutions , the decrees and canons of their own general councils ( the confess'd representatives of their whole church ) seconded by actual deposing of emperours &c. be not undeniable evidence that this seditious , desperate and pernicious doctrine , is the doctrine of the roman church ; i must humbly crave pardon for my ignorance in their faith , and must so far disown my self from ever having embraced , that i never understood their doctrine , and consequently never was a roman catholick . but how repugnant are these positions to the doctrine and example of our humble , meek jesus and his apostles ? learn of me for i am meek and lowly . the son of man came not to be ministred to , but to minister . my kingdom is not of this world. man , who made me a judge or divider over you ? luk. . . if i your lord and master have washed your feet , &c. render to caesar the things that are caesar's . and he himself paid tribute to caesar , and made s. peter do so too . he submitted to the power and jurisdiction of pilate , who was caesar's deputy . and this not quia deerant vires , because he wanted power to resist ( as bellarmine fondly affirms of the primitive christians : ) for he could have called for more than legions of angels . nay so far was he from granting the two swords , so much boasted of , to s. peter , that he severely checks him for making use of one . and the two princes of the apostles , as they are styled , s. peter and paul , were perfectly of their master's temper in this point . the former would not permit a common centurion to fall down at his feet , act. . . and his doctrine was far different from his successors at rome , pet. . . submit your selves to every ordinance of man for the lord's sake : whether it be to the king , as supreme . &c. fear god , honour the king. s. paul preaches the very same . rom. . &c. let every soul be subject to the higher powers , &c. for he bears not the sword in vain . wherefore you must needs be subject not only for wrath , but for conscience sake . and in matter of jurisdiction he expresly appeals to the judgment seat of nero the emperour . and till the mystery of iniquity had gained head , the roman popes themselves spake in a different dialect from what they now use . we were in hopes , says pope leo , ep. . to the emperour marcianus , that your clemency would have condescended so far as to have deferred the council ; but since you resolve it should be kept , i have sent thither paschasme . pope stephen speaks thus to another emperour , hath not the roman church sent her legats to the council when you commanded it ? we offer these things to your piety , says pope hadrian to the emperour basilius , with all humility , & veluti praesentes genibus adv l●●i , as if we were present before you on our knees . having thus as briefly as the matter would permit , dispatched what was chiefly in my design of penning this discourse , and what had the greatest insluence on the satisfying my own mind , i shall make much shorter work with what follows . general councils , when truly so , are highly venerated by protestants , and the four first , so much honoured by s. gregory the great , are better observ'd by the church of england , than by that of rome . nor are we so severe as s. gregory nazian . ep. . ad proc●p . who professes he had never seen any good or happy issue of any of them : but look'd on them as the increase rather than remedy of the churche's evils . which censure is certainly true of those conventions which have been for diverse ages last past . no , we desire nothing more than a free , general council to conclude differences in religion : and are most ready to submit to the determinations of it , and yield the same authority to it , which the antient church in the days of constantine the great , theodosius , &c. and which s. augustine did . and that we may not be slandered as being our own judges , we only desire it may be qualified according to cardinal c●sanus his doctrine . concord , cath. l. . where he declares that a compleat general council consists of all the patriarchs and principal governours of the universal church . that a council kept by the roman bishop , and those only who are subject to him , excluding others , is but a particular council . that a general council may be celebrated , though the pope refuse to concurr by his presence and consent . that all that meet in councils , ought to have free liberty , orderly to declare and determin maters in question . that whatever must oblige as divine , ought to be confirmed by the authority of holy scripture . that no councils are legitimate , where private respects are managed , under pretext of faith and religion . that the roman bishop hath not that power , which many flatterers attribute to him : viz. that he alone is to determine , and others only to consult and advise . that a general council is superiour to the rest of the patriarchs , and also to the roman bishop . that a general council may be deficient , and that de facto councils lawfully assembled have erred . and since they have failed , and have contradicted one another ; as appears in the second council of nice , and that of constance among many others ; the one decreeing the worship of images , the other prohibiting communion in both kinds ; against the express words of scripture ; the councils of lateran in deposing kings : the council of frankfort opposite to that of nice in the business of images : the council of florence against those of basil and constance , in the point of the pope's superiority over a council ; it is certain that councils are to be regulated and examined by god's word , and to be received or rejected as conformable to , or disagreeing from that . and for this we have the authority of the great s. augustin , contra maxim. arian . l. . c. . nec ego nicenum , &c. neither ought i to produce the nicen , nor thou the ariminum council , as having already prejudged or absolutely determined the cause , beyond all appeal . for i am not bound up by the authority of this , nor thou by the decree of that ; but let us regard the authority of the holy scripture ; witnesses not partial or appropriated to either party , but common to both . a speech worthy the gravity , learning , and piety of s. augustin . as for the councils of the later centuries , they neither have been general , nor hath either their assimbling or proceeding been lawful ; and they have most industriously thwarted the canons of the most pure and antient councils . their assembling hath not been legal , in that the modern popes have usurped the whole right and authority of convocating councils contrary to the primitive custom and practice of the church . the first nicene council was called by constantine the great ; the first constantinopolitan , which is the second general council , by theodosius ; that of ephesus , by theodosius junior ; that of chalcedon , by martianus ; the fifth , by justinian , &c. all which are such evident proofs , that the cardinals , cusanus , jacobatius , and zabarella confess , that in the first ages of the church , the right of calling councils belonged to the emperour . nor are their proceedings any better . for the popes admit no assessours or judges in councils , but their own faction , men beforehand enslaved by a solemn oath ( which all bishops of that communion take at their consecration ) to maintain the regalia petri , all the usurpations of that see. the pope is the only authentick judge in all matters , approving and refusing whatever he pleases . their own histories afford us examples enough to confirm this . i shall instance but in the sleights and wiles of the late so much cryed up trent-council . wherein , to make sure work , on the pope's side there were more italian bishops than of all the world beside . and most ridiculously to dazle the eyes of the people , some of these subscribe themselves eastern patriarchs , as of jerusalem , &c. and others as if they were greek prelates . some had the titles of archbishops , who had neither church nor diocess ; as upsalensis and armachanus , who were created on purpose to fill up the number . and when the pope on a certain occasion wanted voices to sway the cause , he sent a fresh supply of bishops newly made . and this was part of that leigerdemain , which an eminent french bishop , claud , espenc . one of those vvho sat in the council , calls the great helena which of late ruled all at trent . in ep. ad tit. c. . all the oriental and greek patriarchs and bishops were excluded : none out of england , scotland , ireland , danemark , swedland ; few out of france and spain ; fewer out of germany it self , were admitted . when the protestants required , audience , they could not be hearken'd to , upon any tolerable terms . it was long before they could get a safe-conduct ; and when it was procured , it was clogg'd with this clause , that it should belong to none , but such as would repent and return to the bosom of the roman church . this partiality and jugling when the princes of europe saw , they sent their protestations against the council , as being insufficient to resorm religion . in trying and deciding controversies , they adhered more to tradition than scripture : and pass'd nothing till the pope with his consistory had seen it at home , and approved it ; and then he transmitted it to his legats . so that , as one said , the holy ghost was continually posted in cloakbags between rome and trent . ( though , by the way , their own doctors teach that the assistance of the holy ghost is a personal privilege and cannot be delegated . ) while the divines were formally disputing at trent , the pope was as busie in ingrossing canons at rome , and sending them to the council to be published . thus they proceeded , sometimes by a wrong rule , sometimes by none at all . in the th session they decree , that none should give any other exposition of scripture , than such as might agree with the doctrine of the church of rome . and yet this very doctrine was the thing questioned , and the scriptures were to have been the touchstone to try it by . take this whole affair in the words of andraeas dudithius , a bishop in the roman church , and an eminent member of this council . he thus writes in an epistle to the emperour maximilian the d , what good could be done in that council , where voices were taken by number , and not by weight ? the pope was able to set an of his against every one of ours ; and if an were not sufficient , he could on a sudden have created a thousand to succour those that were ready to faint . we might every day see hungry and needy bishops , and those for the most part beardless youngsters , come in flocks to trent , hired to give their voice according to the pope's humour : unlearned indeed and foolish but of good use to him for their audaciousness and impudency the holy ghost had nothing to do with that conventicle . all things were carried by humane policy , which was wholly employed in maintaining the immoderate , and indeed most shameless lordship and domineering of the pope . from thence were answers waited for , as from the oracles of delphos or dodona . from thence the holy ghost , who , as they brag , was president of their council , was sent shut up in carriers budgets , who ( a thing worthy to be laugh'd at ) when the waters were up , as it falls out many times , was fain to stay till they were down again , before he could repair to the council . by this means it came to pass , that the spirit was not carried on the waters , as in genesis , but along besides the waters , &c. nothing is more talk'd of than the infallibility of the church of rome : and this i know to be a most tempting bait to get proselytes ; especially amidst those many dissentions in the christian world at this day . but because this pretext hath been utterly destroyed by the lord falkland , mr. chillingworth , and other most learned pens , i will only recommend this single consideration to all judicious roman catholicks , who would not be chouced out of their wits , estates and liberties by a gang of ecclesiastical mountebanks , viz. that this huge , swelling prerogative of infallibility is so sensless a thing , so ungrounded , that no romanist according to his own principles , can have so much as a probable moral assurance of that wherein he thinks himself infallible . and unless every one in particular be infallible , it is to little purpose to boast of an infallible judge . for a man may as well mistake the meaning of his sentence , as the sentence of one who proceeds only upon prudent moral assurance : and we see that thousands do erre in the interpretation of those acknowledged infallible oracles , the holy scriptures . the consideration i recommend is this . that after all the stirr that is made about infallibility , the learnedest amongst them knows not where to meet with it ; nor in what cases it is annexed to that chair , in what it forsakes it . some , as the jesuits generally , will have it in the pope : but then whether with his cardinals , or by himself is controverted very briskly . others will have it in a general council : and this opinion is backt by no less authority than the councils of basil and constance . but then the church hath been very long without it , and possibly may never injoy it by means of a general council to the end of the world. that wherein they fix it with most plausibility is both the pope and a council together . but even here we are at a great many losses . for as to the pope , no man can be assured of his being a true pope ; considering the various defects that may render him otherwise ; as a fundamental error in his election , simoniacal induction , the female sex , want of true baptism and holy orders , both which depend upon the intention and validity of those , from whom he receives them ; and theirs upon the like qualifications in their predecessor &c. occult heresie and many others . and then as to a council , which consists chiefly of bishops ( tho the popes , for some ends best known to themselves have now pack'd in cardinals , abbots , generals of orders , &c. besides that , the validity of a council depends upon the uncertainty of the pope's being truly qualified ; the very same difficulties occur in every particular member , as did in respect of the pope himself . the like uncertainty appears in every sacrament administred in that church , some whereof are absolutely necessary , both necessitate medii & praecepti . v. g. in baptism , absolution , consecration of the host , which if it be not duly performed , idolatry is committed by the people in adoring it , even by their own concessions . azorius the jesuit , enchirid. c. . openly proclaims , that it is a more tolerable error in them who worship golden and silver statues , as the gentiles did their gods ; nay , a piece of red cloth on the top of a spear , as the laplanders are reported to do , than in those who adore a piece of bread. and now i would fain know of a lay-roman-catholick , what is become of his infallibility , where it is , and to what purpose it serves him ? no where is it to be found , as i know of , but in the bold assertion of every pragmatical confessor , who bids you be sure to look to your faith ; ( who are the solifidians now ? ) to believe as the church believes , and then all is safe ; for the breach of the ten commandments , there are merits and indulgences enough in the church , which being mixt with a little attrition and confession will do the work . though in the mean while he himself can neither tell where this infallible church is , nor what she certainly believes . methinks s. paul spoke as much like a prophet as an apostle : as if he foresaw the haughtiness of the members of that church to which he wrote . and therefore to curb them and banish from their minds all such vain conceits of infallibility , he tells the church of rome she stood on no firmer grounds than her neighbours . his words are these , worthy to be had in everlasting remembrance by all roman-catholicks . rom. . , , boast not against the branches , &c. well : because of unbelief they were broken off ; and thou standest by faith. be not high-minded , but fear . for if god spared not the natural branches , take heed lest he also spare not thee . behold therefore the goodness and severity of god : on them which seli , severity , but towards thee goodness ; if thou continue in his goodness : otherwise thou also shalt be cut off . which words need rather your practice than my paraphrase . how much safer and more satisfactory is it to rely on the holy scriptures themselves ; which by all sides are acknowledged infallible ? for as much as they were divinely inspired by that great infallible truth , which neither can be deceived , nor deceive his creatures ; which can make you wise enough to salvation and who hath promised to every humble petitioner , and devout practiser , a sufficient competency of knowledge , in what is necessary for his present condition and eternal happiness . now all this you will find abundantly provided for in the doctrine and constitutions of the church of england . here is the word of god faithfully translated , and exactly , as far as the idiomes of languages will permit , compared with the originals : and all those books received , of whose authority there was never any doubt made in the church . some others called apocryphal , are read indeed ; but as ruffinus in exposit. symboli , speaks , non ad fidem firmandam sed ad mores instruendos : not for confirming faith , but for direction of manners . and they are excluded from the canon upon very weighty reasons . for that they were never committed as of divine authority to the jews : to whom the oracles of god were intrusted , rom. . . nor are they to be found in the hebrew canon . they are never found cited by christ or his apostles : and in some places they contain things manifestly false , contradictory both to themselves & the other genuine prophetical writers . you have here the three creeds , the apostles , that of the nicene council , and that of s. athanasius : together with the four first general councils , which represent to us the sincere scheme of apostolical , primitive doctrine and discipline . you have here good works recommended , preach'd and practiced , as the fruits of faith and evidences of our justification : and though not as expiatory for our sins , yet as in obedience to the divine commands , and as a sacrifice acceptable to god. and even in this degenerate age of christianity it might be made to appear , that as many acts and monuments of real charity have been exhibited since the reformation , as were in many ages before . but for those works of suprerecogation , as they are called , whereby we are presumed to perform more than is our duty , this church worthily disowns them , as savouring of too much pride and self conceitedness in us , who at the best are but unprofitable servants . you have here a just and competent authority allowed to the church , of appointing decent rites and ceremonies , and of determining controversies in religion : provided she decide nothing repugnant to the holy scripture . and the apostles themselves challenged no more , witness s. paul : be ye followers of me as i am of christ. you have here a lawful call to and succession in the ministerial function ( and this succession , if need were , may be shewn to be more sincere and less interrupted than that in the roman church . ) as likewise those three most antient degrees of bishops , priests and deacons : and the manner of their ordination most conformable to god's word and primitive constitutions and practice . you have here all the divine services and administration of the sacraments , performed in the known vulgar tongue of the country , to the edification of the people , and according to divine precept . on which subject s. paul hath written a whole chapter , cor. . no ways reconcilable to the practice of the roman church : which herein is confessed to disagree with antiquity , by the most learned of our adversaries , and many of them wish that the custome were abolished . nor doth their common plea avail ; that god understands any language : for many parts of their service are addressed to the people , and not to god : as the instructions out of the epistles and gospels , orate fratres , &c. and many occurrencies in the administration of the sacraments . here you will find the two great sacraments of the new law , baptism and the sacred eucharist . the first never so much as questioned by our adversaries as to its validity . and the other administred in the due matter and form of divine institution ; and that intirely , without committing that grand sacrilege of taking away the cup from the layity . and if the church of england embrace all that is really conveyed to us in those high mysteries , viz. the application of those ineffable benefits and advantages of the sacred body and blood of christ ; it is as much as every good christian can desire , and enough , if duly received , to make him happy . and as for that wonderful doctrin of transubstantiation , we have the romanists own acknowledgment , that it was not believed in that church till the councel of lateran , which likewise decreed the deposing of kings : and i am sure the church of england hath scripture , antiquity , reason , and the concurring testimony of all our senses , when she acknowledges a real presence to the true believer , without annihilating the substance of the elements . i am sure our blessed saviour at the institution calls the whole action a commemoration : and in the consecration of the cup he most apparently uses a double figure ; both in the cup , used for what is in it , and the testament , for what is conveyed by it . he himself calls it the fruit of the vine . and s. paul , cor. . . , . in verses together expresly calls it bread even after the consecration ; whoever shall eat this bread , &c. as often as ye eat this bread , &c. let a man examine himself and so let him eat of this bread. and whereas our saviour saies this is my body : to omit the multitude of authorities that might be produced , let the great s. augustin speak the sence of all antiquity : christ did not stick to say this is my body , when he gave the sign of his body , in psalm . . and de doctrin . christian. l. c. . he lays down this notable rule ; if you find a commandment that forbids a crime , or injoins any good action , then its sense is not figurative : but it is otherwise when it seems to command a crime and prohibit a good action . except you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood , you have no life in you , saies christ. that word seems to command a crime : it is therefore a figure ; which bids us communicate in the passion of our lord , and call into our memories with sweetness and benefit , that his flesh hath been wounded and nailed on the cross for us . thus doth s. augustin teach . and indeed nothing is more frequent in holy writ , than such manner of speech : this is the lord 's passover . i am the true vine , &c. but to examine this business fully , would require a just volume , and it is already done by very able pens . the other sacraments in use in the roman church , are solemnly used by the church of england , though not under that notion : excepting the ceremony of anoynting , which was a miraculous guift of healing peculiar to the apostles . in the church of england you may injoy the true use and advantage of confession and absolution , in a far more serious and less suspicious manner than in the roman church . and as for absolution , even the form of it is as full and compleat as theirs . i will set it down here , as it is found in the service for the visitation of the sick. — our lord jesus christ , who hath left power to his church , to absolve all sinners , who truly repent and believe in him , of his great mercy forgive thee thy offences : and by his authority committed to me , i absolve thee from all thy sins ; in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost . her churches are decently kept and adorned , ( at least it is her desire they should be so ) though not crowded with images : the historical use of which she rejects not : but the adoration of them she worthily esteems most dangerous and detestable . and truly for my own part , i think that dr. stillingfleet , now the reverend dean of s. pauls , hath little less than demonstrated it to be idolatry . let any but impartially examin the general practice of the church of rome , especially on good-friday in creeping to the cross : and he will find an undeniable proof of their adoring images . the priest by degrees uncovers the crucifix , lists it upto be adored with these words , ecce lignum crucis , &c. behold the wood of the cross , come let us adore it . then first he himself , then all that are present , with three prostrations of the body , even to the kissing of the very earth , approach to it , and with all reverence imaginable adore it . the worship and invocation of saints and angels , is here looked upon as at least very dangerous , and not having any president in the old or new testament , s. paul hath imparted his mind to us in this matter ▪ coloss. . . let no man beguile you of your reward , in a voluntary humility , and worshipping of angels , intruding into those things which he hath not seen . the doctrines of merit , indulgences , purgatory , &c. are presumptuous at best , and full of abuses , contrived more for the priests profit than the penitents comfort . all which considered , together with the small grounds for the belief of them , they are worthily disowned by the church of england . nor was bellarmin , when out of the heat of school disputes , of a different judgment , l. . de justif. c. . propter incertitudinem , &c. by reason of the uncertainty of our own justice and the danger of vain glory ; tutissimum est , &c. it is the safest course to repose all our confidence in the alone mercy and benignity of god. in short , you will find that the church of england in her reformation , which was most regular , and by the supreme authority of the whole nation , retains all the essentials of christianity , and onely rectified such things as she found , and the whole world complained , were some ridiculous , some impious ; others sensual and cruel . such are the innumerable crossings , repetitions of names , kissings of the pax and images , offering up of incense and candles , impertinent pilgrimages , &c. and a thousand the like absurdities . such as teach men to put their confidence in bless'd beads and medals , counterfeit relicks , confraternities , sodalities ; to trust to mundayes prayers for the dead , and our ladie 's litanies : and ascribe to pieces of wax called agnus dei's , divine power and efficacy , even as much as is due only to the pretious blood of the son of god. nor is this the belief and practice onely of a few old wives : but the authentick book of the sacred ceremonies of the roman church , tells us how urban v. sent three agnus dei's to the greek emperor , with most blasphemous rythmes annexed concerning their virtue . amongst others this is verbatim set down , — peccatum frangit ut christi sanguis et angit — that it destroys sin as the blood of christ doth . and this was not the practice of one phantastical pope alone , but according to the foresaid book , l. . every pope in blessing these agnus dei's uses this prayer . that it would please thee , o god , to bless these things , which we purpose to pour into this vessel of water prepared for thy name : so as by the worship and honour of them , we thy servants may have our heinous offences done away , the blemishes of our sins wiped off , and thereby we may obtain pardon , &c. no meaner a person than the angelical doctor s. thomas aquinas , attributes the same virtue of taking away venial sins , to holy water . and likewise . qu. . a. . in c. most orthodoxly defends , that stocks and stones , i mean images , are to be worshipped with latria , the same honour that is due to the creator . suarez and vasquez teach the same . to conclude this discourse . in the church of england you will meet with all that is good and warrantable in the church of rome ; what ever is necessary to salvation : and that by the confession of the learnedest romans . let bellarmin speak for all . l. . de verbo dei. c. . the apostles themselves never used to preach openly to the people ( much less propounded as articles of faith ) other things than the articles of the apostles creed , the ten commandments , and some few of the sacraments : because , saies he , these are simply necessary and profitable for all men : the rest besides are such , as that a man may be saved without them . this made antonius de dominis , archbishop of spalatto , even at his return to rome , to acknowledg the english church to be a true apostolical church . and father fulgentio the venetian , companion to father paul , the famous compiler of the history of the council of trent , had a most high value and tender respect for this church , as having in it all the requisites for faith , manners and discipline . and that incomparable man , hugo grotius , had so venerable an affection for her , above all other reformed churches , that he told our embassador in france , that he intended after his return from swedland , whither he was designed embassador from the states general , to transport himself with his whole family hither , on purpose to dye in the bosome of the english church . in such repute is she even with foreigners . and to speak one word to the roman catholicks of england even in their own language . by their own concessions , the church of england is safer to communicate with than that of rome . for , to believe onely what is in the scripture , is as much as is necessary , as bellarmin confesses . to worship god without an image , is acknowledged by all both safe and acceptable . to pray immediately to god , and use the lord's prayer , without repeating so many ave maria's ; to perform the best works we can , and not stand on the point of merit , &c. and so of the other matters in controversie , is by both sides granted secure : whereas the other things in debate , are strongly disputed by very learned and pious men. now what would a man require more than what all acknowledge to be in the church of england : viz. means effectually conducing and sufficient to believe well , to pray well , to live well , and to dye well . it remains onely , that the truly devout and loyal persons in our nation that are of the roman persuasion , will but vouchsafe to take the courage and pains following our blessed saviour's advice , john . . search the scriptures ; and s. paul's , thess. . . prove all things ▪ cor. . . and examine your selves whether you be in the faith. a post-script to the roman catholicks of my acquaintance . ever honoured and still respected friends , having thus fairly and ingènuously unbosomed to you the very thoughts of my heart , i beseech you not to take with the left hand what i offer with the right . many of you i know to be truly vertuous , noble and loyal : to many i have most endearing obligations ; and i think none can contradict me if i affirm , that my converse among you was repay'd with love and esteem : and i take heaven and earth to witness , that i still value you as tenderly as i do my own soul. god onely knowes how many throes and struglings i had to part with those , whom i so earnestly affected . but truth ( at least as it seems to me ) is great , and will prevail . my request to you all is , that you would not let us break in point of charity , though our opinions are not altogether coincident : that you would , for the removing any scruples that may arise , believe me , as i shall answer at the last tribunal , that i was not onely sincere but zealous , while i remained among you : and that whatever i performed , was with the perfect intention of , and compliance with the roman church ; and as validly done as any actions of that nature are capable of admitting . lastly , i desire for god's , religion's , and your own sake , that we may refrain from all contumelious reflexions on one another . in that long converse and great familiarity i had with you , it is impossible , but failings and imperfections must be discovered on both sides . let all be concealed under the mantle of that charity , which hides a multitude of sins : still think of me as you ever found , one that sought not yours , but you : an honest , plain down-right meaning person . and as for my present proceedings leave me to stand or fall to that great judge , to whose , and his churche's censure , i with the most profound obedience submit , whatever i write or do. and once more i recommend to your most impartial and serious consideration this important quaery : whether it be not sufficient ground to withdraw from the communion of a church , when she is convinced publickly to teach , practise and command treason and rebellion to its members ? sicut reputari cupiunt & haberi fideles , ( as the lateran council thunders it out ) as they desire to be accounted and treated as christians . as to the traiterous and monstrous plot now in question ; what mr. oats and mr. bedlow , with the rest of the informers evidences are , i know not , nor am i much inquisitive . his sacred majesty , and his great council are judges of that . but of this i am as sure as i can be of any humane transaction , that the roman church teaches and commands such practices ; that they have been frequently put in execution abroad and especially at home ; and that consequece to such doctrines , mr. colem●● by his own confession and letters which he did not deny , was very busie in attempting to dissolve the parliament , and in procuring assistance from the french king , by the interposition of monsieur le chese the jesuit , who was that king's confessor ( to use his own words ) to carry on the mighty work in their hands , no less than the conversion of three kingdoms , and the utter subduing of a pestilential heresie , which hath domineer'd over a great part of this northern world a long time ; and that there never was such hopes of success since the days of their q. mury , as now in these days , — and i am sure , that a most worthy justice of peace was barbarously murder'd , who took the examinations upon that occasion ; and that many other insolent actions were committed by that party . nor can it be any satisfaction to the nation for well-minded persons to say they disclaim and detest such actions ; unless they kenounce the principles , and disown the authority which have promoted and still are ready to prompt men to such desperate practices . god almighty grant us all his grace to consider in this our day the things that belong to our peace , before they be hid from our eyes . amen . finis an answer to mr. cressy's epistle apologetical to a person of honour touching his vindication of dr. stillingfleet / by edw. stillingfleet. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an answer to mr. cressy's epistle apologetical to a person of honour touching his vindication of dr. stillingfleet / by edw. stillingfleet. stillingfleet, edward, - . clarendon, edward hyde, earl of, - . [ ], p. printed by r. white for hen. mortlock ..., london : . reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. a "person of honour" is edward hyde, earl of clarendon. cf. bm. beginning to p. photographed from bodleian library copy and inserted at end. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng cressy, serenus, - . -- epistle apologetical to a person of honour. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - aptara rekeyed and resubmitted - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion imprimatur , guliel . wigan r mo in christo patri ac d no , d no humphredo , episc. lond. à sac . dom . nov . . an answer to m r. cressy's epistle apologetical to a person of honour touching his vindication of d r. stillingfleet . by edw. stillingfleet d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london , printed by r. white , for hen. mortlock at the phoenix in s. paul's church-yard , and the white hart in westminster hall. . to the superiours of the benedictins in england . gentlemen , i find it disputed among your casuists , whether a book written by a member of your order , doth belong to the author or to the society ; the arguments i confess are very weighty on both sides ; for in behalf of the society it is pleaded with great reason , that by the rules of your order , no particular member is to have property in any thing ; and in behalf of the author , that a book being the proper issue of his own brain , cannot belong to any one else : caramuel , finding the difficulties so great , undertakes to resolve the case by a very subtle distinction of the paper and ink of which the book is composed , and the conceptions of the mind contained therein ; the former he gives to the society , and the latter to the author , which he proves ver● substantially ; for , saith he , the conceptions of the book being the outward images of what was only in the mind of the author can belong to no other than to him that formed them ; but against this ariseth a shrewd objection , that by this means every man hath right to the picture that is made of him , and the painter only to the canvas and colours . to which he answers very gravely , that the picture is not properly th● immediate representation of the person , but of that idea of him which was in the fancy of the painter . but upon this another controversie arises ( as we find every day that one doth beget another ) whether that propriety which the author hath in the conceptions of his book , can be disposed of by way of legacy , or no ; and all the resolution i can meet with is , that it is probable he may ; but on the other side , the superiours of the order may make use of the contrary probability , and challenge the book for their own . it is very well known to you , that mr. cressy was lately a member of your order , who was the author of the book , to which this following answer is made ; what right you have challenged in it i know not , but i think it not likely he should dispose of it to any but to your selves ; since he saith , his first writing against me was by his superiours command , and in this book he declares , that what he writes was not his own opinion alone ; and therefore it is probable you may have 〈◊〉 right to the conceptions , 〈◊〉 as to the paper and in● 〈◊〉 since his death ( which i knew not of till i had undertaken this service and duty in behalf of a person of honour to whose kindness i am so extreamly obliged ) i know not to whom so properly to address my self , as to you , who were his superiours ; especially since there are so many things in it wherein the honour of your order is concerned ; to which i assure you i bear no malice , no more than i do to your persons , or to mr. cressy's memory . if i am guilty of mistakes , i beseech you to correct them with the same civility that i writ them . i have of late been somewhat used to writing , but i am yet to learn the art and terms of railing , and i hope i shall not find that any such legacies are bequeath'd to you by any of your order . i am gentlemen , your humble servant , edw. stillingfleet . london , nov. . . the contents . chap. i. of mr. cressy's apologie for the sharpness of his style . pag. . chap. ii. of the charge of fanaticism and mystical divinity . p. . chap. iii of the monastick orders , in the roman church , and particularly of the benedictin . . chap. iv. of the conversion of england , and the difference between the brittish and saxon christians . p. . chap. v. of the poenal laws against papists . p. . to my l d. c. my lord , since your lordships going from london , mr. cressy's epistle apologetical to a person of honour touching his vindication of d r. stillingfleet came to my hands ; and bears date , from his cell , march . a. d. . being the anniversary day of s. benedict . and he is not only thus punctual in the date of his epistle , but he begins it with a very particular account , in what manner the person of honour's book was sent to him ; viz. by the letter-post , but partly to abate charges and likewise to disguise the shape of a book , it was folded up in loose sheets with all the margins close pared to the very quick . after i had observed so much niceness in these , not very material circumstances , i could hardly expect that the least line of the book should escape without numbering the words , syllables , and letters in it , and giving every one a distinct and punctual confutation . but i soon found several considerable parts gently passed over , and indeed by the very bulk of his book , i presently perceived , that he was more curious to give the world an account , how the other came to him , than careful to answer it . for if he had treated every thing that was of like moment with equal exactness , it might very well have passed for the second tome of his ecclesiastical history . and in truth , the matter of some part of it , is not much unlike , for he tells so long a story in the middle of it of the kindness of some and the unkindness of others in england to him , and of the books he had written , that it looked very like a legend of himself ; only i do not find any miracles he had done in any of them . before he comes to his apologie for himself , he takes great care to make me understand the mighty obligation laid upon me , by that person of honour , who was pleased with so much kindness to undertake my vindication from the impetuous assaults of an enraged adversary . which i was so justly sensible of before , that mr. cressy might have spared his pains ; for surely it was no small favour to be delivered from the paws of so fierce a creature , as he appeared to be in his former book ; but to have it done in so obliging a manner , by a person of so great honour and abilities , was as much beyond my presumption to hope for , as it is now above my power to requite . i with i were a person of that credit and interest to be able to express my gratitude in that very way mr. cressy directs me to ; for of all things i desire to avoid the odious character and brand of ingratitude . but since i make so small a figure in publick affairs , the utmost i can do , is to save that honourable person the farther trouble of making animadversions on this epistle apologetical . which is written with that shew of humility and respect , that those who look only on the appearance , would imagine him strangely come off from the rage and fury he was in , when he writ his former book ; but if we observe more carefully his sly reflections and crafty insinuations , we shall find that he hath only learnt to dissemble his passion , and to do the same mischief with a fawning countenance . the first part of his epistle is wholly spent in vindication of himself as to the sharpness of style and bitter invectives he had used against me , which i shall briefly consider before i come to the more material parts of his book . chap. i. of mr. cressy's apologie for the sharpness of his style . § . . mr . cressy in his preface to sancta sophia finding it necessary to put some shew of difference between the pretences to extraordinary illuminations in f. bakers way , and those of the fanatick sectaries among us , hath unhappily pitched upon this for one of them ; that the lights here desired and prayed for , are such as do expell all images of creatures , and do calm all manner of passions , to the end that the soul being in a vacuity , may be more capable of receiving and entertaining god in the pure fund of the spirit . could any one after these words , have expected to have found this recommender of mystical divinity , foaming and raging with the violence of passion , and so tormented with the creatures of his own imagination ; that he could not forbear expressing it to that degree in his book , as deserved rather the pitty , than the answer of his adversary ? this the person of honour took just notice of , in the beginning of his excellent discourse , and wondered what insupportable provocation was given to him , that he could not restrain so free a vent of his unmanly passions : but upon an impartial view of the places in my book at which mr. cressy was so highly offended , he did at first rather think he was not the author of the book he answers , than that he should be guilty of so much bitterness and unreasonable passion : but when the reasons were so many to convince him , that he was the author , he had rather still lay the fault of his manner of writing upon the commands of his superiours , than his own temper and inclination . upon this mr. cressy makes many apologies for the sharpness of his style against me ; and spins out a great part of his epistle on this subject ; which he needed not to have done , with any regard to me , as though i were concerned at it ; for i assure him , if i would wish an adversary to write so , as to do the least prejudice to me , and the greatest to himself and his cause , i would wish him to write just after that copy ; and i cannot easily think of a provocation great enough to make me follow his example . but he pleads for himself , that charity it self sometimes requires sharpness of style and even bitter ( that is , uncharitable ) invectives . i suppose he means such a sort of catholick charity , as first damns us , and then brings railing accusations against us : and i do not question , but he that pleads for bitter invectives out of meer charity , could make as fine an harangue to shew not only the admirable charity , but even the mercy of fire and ●aggot : and he knows the charitable method of the inquisition is , first to put on the sanbenits , representing the persons with pictures of devils upon them , and then to carry them to execution . i remember i have read that machiavils son being summoned to appear before the court of inquisition , to answer to some things laid to his charge ; the grave inquisitors asked him , whether he believed as the church believed ; he answered yes , and a great deal more ; at which they were not a little pleased , hoping to get from his own words enough to condemn him ; and asking him , what that was which he believed more than the church believed , he gravely told them , it was , that their worships informers were a pack of knaves . so indeed i should think that i believed more than their church believed , should i believe that they damn us out of meer charity , and write bitter invectives for a demonstration of their kindness . alas ! how hath the world been mistaken in them ! their cruelty , is meer pitty ; their invectives , compassion ; and their railing , charity . § . . but mr. cressy wants not great examples for this ; for he brings in no meaner than of moses and the prophets , st. john baptist , christ and his apostles , and several fathers of the church for it . it seems then , the practice of railing hath antiquity , universality , and consent for it ; which is much more than they can shew for many other of their practices ; and which is the greatest wonder of all , they have scripture too : and that , not one single passage , like hoe est corpus meum ; but moses and the prophets , christ and his apostles , nay , s. iohn baptist too , do all bear witness to it . any one would think , if mr. cressy say true , the bible were the railingest book in the world. what not moses the meekest man upon earth forbear such bitter invectives ? not our blessed saviour , who when he was reviled , reviled not again , when he suffered he threatned not , but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously ! not he , who hath threatned hell-fire to him that uses contumelious expressions against his brother ! such as zani , or scarron , or the like . not he , who bids his disciples learn meekness from him , and was the most incomparable pattern of it , that ever appeared in humane nature ! not his holy apostles ! who charge all christians to put away all bitterness and wrath , and anger , and clamour , and evil speaking ! and would they indeed , do that themselves , which they so severely forbid in others ? where is mr. cressy's charity for them the mean while ? while he produces these examples to justifie his own bitterness , he makes the most bitter invective not only against them , but even christianity it self . but what will not men do , or say , to justifie their violent passions ? if he had stabbed me , he might as well have made phinehas his precedent ; and if he had cursed me , have quoted some passages in the fsalms for it . if moses was so angry that he brake the tables of the law ; doth mr. cressy think , it was at any that spake against the idolatry of the golden calf ? no ; it was at those who committed it : and it is probable he might have been so , at those who would have struck the second commandment out of those tables , or eluded the force of it by vain and idle distinctions . the great anger of the prophets was against those who drew the people to idolatry : and mr. cressy is so pertinent in his proofs as to bring this to justifie his rage against me , for writing against the idolatry of the roman church : for so much he expresses in several places . our saviour and s. iohn baptist do express great zeal against the scribes and pharisees : but let mr. cressy consider , they were a sort of sowre , ill-natured hypocrites , that would allow none a good word , nor so much as hopes of salvation that were not of their way ; that were full of malice , and envy , and all evil passions , and at the same time pretended highly to mortification and more devotion than others . i find nothing like invectives in all the writings of the holy apostles ; unless it were against the opposers , or corrupters of christianity ; and when mr. cressy proves me to be guilty of either of those , i will lay my self open to the darts of the most venomous tongue among them . but instead of that i know no other cause in any books i have written , that should expose me to the rage of these men , beside the zeal i have therein discover'd for the honour and purity of the christian religion , against the fopperies and corruptions of the roman church . and for such a cause as this , i am prepared to suffer , whatever their fury and malice can raise up against me . this , this is the cause , which i hope i should not be ashamed nor afraid to own and defend , although mr. cressy's power were as great as his charity . the church of england i do from my heart honour and esteem , ( notwithstanding all the base suggestions of mr. cressy to the contrary , even in this epistle apologetical ) but i do therefore so much esteem it , because in it the christian religion is preserved free from the frantick heats of enthusiasm and the dotages of superstition . if they will undertake to convince me , that the things i condemn in the church of rome , were any parts of the christian religion delivered by christ or his apostles , i shall diligently weigh and consider what ever they have to say ; but if they only give hard words , and betray impotent passions ; if they shuffle and shew tricks instead of reasoning ; if all their charity towards me lyes only in bitter invectives , they will do but little good upon me , and i think not much to their own cause . § . . but i am mistaken all this while , mr. cressy doth not write this apology to give me satisfaction , but the person of honour , and the genuine learned protestant clergy of the english church ; and if these , he saith , after impartial considering the motives and grounds of his invectives shall determine , that in his late , to him ( alas ! ) unusual manner of treating with me he hath offended against christian charity , or purposely intended to fix any dishonourable brand on the english protestant church or discipline of it established by law , he will be ready without any reply to suffer whatsoever censure or punishment they shall think fit to inflict upon him . what! no offence against christian charity to charge me with deriding and blaspheming the saints in glory ; with having a hatred horribly poysonous against the catholick church militant ; and that will not spare the church triumphant : no offence at all , to call me theological scarron , and to say , that i act the theological zani ; that all my book except twenty or thirty pages consists of scurrilous buffoonries , petulant revilings of gods saints ; and in effect by his epigram out of martial to charge me with downright atheism ; and twice in the same passage with impiously and profanely employed wit : none at all , to say , that i had a heart brimful of the gall of bitterness , that i writ with ink full of gall and poyson ; that i gave free scope to all unchristian and even inhumane passions ! that my book wholly composed of malignant passions and new-invented calumnies against gods church , was only the private design of a malicious brain on purpose to feed the exulcerated minds of a malevolent party among us : that , all the weapons i make use of , pierce into the very bowels of the persons , fortunes and condition of english catholicks , whose destruction i seem to design . what! none at all , to charge me so often with prevaricating with the church of england , and designing to destroy her , under a pretence of defending her ! these are some of the flowers of mr. cressy ' s charity towards me , which i have picked out of some few pages of his book ; and he hath taken abundant care to prevent any unlikeness in the parts of it . and doth mr. cressy in good earnest think , it is no breach of christian charity to charge me upon such pittiful grounds , with no less than carrying on blasphemous , atheistical , treacherous and cruel designs ? but if this be his christian charity , what would the effects of his malice be ? let now any indifferent person judge , whether the person of honour had not reason to say , that he never observed so many personal reflections and invectives , fuller of causless passions , and of bitterness and virulence in so little room in any book . but whatever the person of honour thinks , mr. cressy makes his appeal to the genuine learned protestant english clergy . if he had been a clergy-man who had done me that great kindness , then mr. cressy would have appealed to persons of honour ; and surely such are the most competent judges in cases of affronts and injuries : but herein lyes mr. cressy's art which runs throughout his epistle , that he would fain separate me from the church of england , and make my cause distinct from hers : i do not wonder , that they would part me from my company , and deprive me of my shelter , when they have such a mind to run me down . but these arts are easily understood : and the design is too fine to hold , and too apparent not to be seen through . mr. cressy knows very well , the use that was made at athens of the fable of the dogs and the sheep ; and what good words and fair promises the wolf made to the sheep ; if they would but consent , that the dogs might be given up to be destroyed . and no doubt the crafty wolf would have made a very fine speech to the sheep , to have perswaded them , that he had no manner of ill will to them ; for he had known them long and loved them well , and alwayes looked upon them as a company of very innocent and harmless creatures ; but for those dogs that were set to watch them , he knew how different their principles were , and how destructive to them , if occasion served ; and for all that he knew , these dogs might have covenanted together to worry them , upon a fair opportunity ; and therefore for his part , he could not but wonder at their patience , that some of the stoutest rams among them , did not set upon those pestilent currs ; or at least , he hoped , they would not be so regardless of their own safety , as not to suffer some well-wishers to the flock , to take them quietly and destroy them . for alas ! at the best , they do but make a noise , and disturb the repose of the sheep ; and if they were gone , there would be nothing but unity and love left . i need make no application of this to mr. cressy ; and i am far from the vanity of supposing this capable of being applyed to my case , any farther than as i am one of those , who are at present engaged in the defence of our church against that of rome . it is the happiness , and honour of our church of england , that it hath in it at this day such store of persons both able and willing to defend her cause ( as , it may be , no church in the world hath ever had together more persons of excellent abilities , great learning , and unaffected piety ; ) and i look on my self as one of the meanest of them : but it hath been my lot to be engaged more early and more frequently in this cause than others ; which hath drawn so great a hatred of my adversaries upon me ; but i thank god , i have a good cause and the testimony of a good conscience in the management of it , and so long i neither fear the waspishness of some , nor the rage of others . § . . but this is their present design to represent me as one of different principles from the church of england , and not only different , but such as if well understood , are destructive to it , and therefore they very gravely advise our reverend bishops to have a care of me , if they hope to preserve the church of england . and can we think it is any thing else but meer kindness and good will to our church , that makes them so solicitous for its welfare ? it is a sad thing , saith mr. cressy , that not one protestant will open his eyes and give warning of the dangerous proceedings of their champion ? nay , it is no doubt , a very sad thing to them to see that we do not fall out among our selves ? i am sure it is no fault of theirs that we do not : for they make use of the most invidious and reproachful terms together concerning me , that if they cannot fasten on one passion they may upon another : but these poor designs have hitherto had but little success , and i hope will never meet with greater . and yet if nothing else will do , mr. cressy saith , that it is a ●hame , that hitherto not one true prelatical protestant has appeared as a defender of the english church and state against me ; but on the contrary even some english prelates themselves have congratulated and boasted of my supposed successful endeavours against the catholick church , though ruinous only to themselves . alas , good man ! his heart is even broke for grief , that our bishops take no more care to preserve the church of england . the church he hath alwayes so entirely loved , and ventured as much for her as any body , while she was in prosperity , and there was no danger ; and only forsook her , when she was not able to reward his love. the truth was , he gave her for gone at that time ; and then it was the late church of england with him ; and no wonder when he thought her dead , that he made court to a richer mistress ; but it was but a swooning fit , she is come to her self again , and i hope like to hold out much longer than that which he hath chosen . and although mr. cressy's hands be now tyed , and he hath entred into new vows ; yet he cannot , for his heart , forget the kindness he had to her in her flourishing condition , because she was then very kind to him ; he remembers the marks of her favour , and the rich presents she made him ; and therefore something of the old love revives in him towards her , at least so far that he cannot endure to see her ill used ; when her guardians neglect her , and her sons prevaricate with her . if mr. cressy's faith had been as great as his charity , to have made him believe that she would ever have come to her self again , i cannot think he would have forsaken her so unhandsomely ; and left her in a dying condition : but who could ever have thought that things would have come about so strangely ? but what if all this present shew of kindness prove meer collusion and prevarication in him ? what if it be only to divide her friends , and thereby the more easily to expose her to the malice of her enemies ? for as long as the church of england stands , she upbraids him , in his own words , with malignant ingratitude : and it is the plausiblest way for him that was once a servant and a lover , to compass her ruine with a pretence of kindness . § . . but wherein is it , that i have prevaricated with the church of england , whilst i have pretended to defend her ? the first thing he instances in , is , my charging the church of rome with idolatry . in very good time mr. cressy ! and , is this prevaricating with the church of england ? when i have already , in two set discourses , at large proved , that by all the means we can come to know the sense of a church , this charge hath been made good against her , from the beginning of the reformation to . and that even then the convocation declared the same in the canons then made . but what must i do with such kind of adversaries , that will never answer what i say for my self ; but do run on still with the same charge , as though they had nothing to do when they write , but to tell the same story over and over ; let mr. cressy do with his readers as he pleases ; for my part , i shall never follow him in that kind of impertinency : for there is not one word there used by him , which i had not particularly answered , before he writ it . the like i may say , of the second charge , viz. that by the principles laid down by me , i destroy the authority of the church of england ; which i have already shewed at large to be a very impertinent cavil , and that i do maintain as much authority in the church of england , as ever the church of england challenged to her self . and to that discourse i refer mr. cressy for satisfaction ; if he will not read it , i cannot help that ; but i can help the not writing the same things over again : and so this other part of his epistle apologetical is wholly impertinent ; unless he had taken off , what i had said for my self already in answer to the very same objections . but all the reason in the world shall never satisfie mr. cressy , that i aim not at setting up a church distinct from the church of england ? if it be any , i assure him , it is a very invisible church ; for it is a church , without either head or members ; i declare my self to be not only a member , but an affectionate hearty friend to the church of england ; i perswade some to it ; i endeavour , what in me lyes , to keep others from revolting from it . but where lyes this dr. stillingfleet's church , which mr. cressy makes such a noise with ? i know none but that of the many thousands in england that have not bowed their knees to baal : and to prevent any farther suspicion of my meaning , i do declare i am for no other church , than that church of england which is established by law among us . but it must be allowed to those who plead for seeing visions , that sometimes they may dream dreams . having therefore cut off so much impertinency , i shall reduce the matter yet to a narrower compass , by casting by the large account he gives of the several books written by himself , in all which tedious discourse , the wisest thing he saith is , that books relating to personal things are scarce ever so long-lived , as a yearly ●lmanack , and serve only to increase the uncharitableness and injustice of the present age , in which men will be sure to censure all books and persons , and are indifferent whether they condemn the plaintiff or defendant or both . i shall not therefore feed so bad a humour by medling with any personal disputes ; but come now , to the main things , which deserve any farther discussion , in the passages between the person of honour and mr. cressy . chap. ii. of the charge of fanaticism and mystical divinity . § . . and the first thing is about the charge of fanaticism ; which gave the title to that book of mr. cressy ' s , upon which the person of honour bestows his animadversions . this mr. cressy said he would begin with , and particularly that part of my book which concerns the life and prayer of contemplation commended and practised only in the catholick church ; it being a state , he saith , which from the infancy of the church hath been esteemed the nearest approaching to that of glorified saints : and this is that , from whence i took an occasion to vilifie him ; but adds , that he is very well content to receive his proportion of scorn with such companions , as thaulerus , suso , rusbrochius , blosius , &c. but to the end i may not boast , he saith , of the novelty of my invention and profanely employed wit , he doth assure me , that he heard the same way much better acted a long time since , but the actor was obliged to make a recantation sermon for it . i thank mr. cressy for more of his charity still , in that he parallels the representing the fanaticism of their church with the histrionical representing the life of our saviour and his att●ndants : it seems , there is no great difference to be made between the reverence due to the founders of their monastick orders , and to the son of god himself . i do assure him if i had no better opinion of our blessed saviour as to his wisdom and all manner of excellencies , than as yet i see ground to have of the founders of their orders , i should be far from that esteem i now have of the christian religion : but however , the person of honour hath better informed mr. cressy ' s memory , viz. that the recantation sermon was made upon the account of state-matters ; and therefore mr. cressy very wisely passeth it over in his epistle apologetical . to this the person of honour adds , that mr. cressy had no such reason to be enraged at me for this charge , since the provocation was given me by my adversary , by whom the beginning of so many sects & fanaticisms was laid to the charge of the church of england : which unseasonable and untrue reproach , made it necessary for me to answer and refell that calumny , and as reasonable to let them know that their own church is much more lyable to that accusation than the other : and why this provocation should be so innocent an assault for the one , and the defence by the other should prove so heinous an offence , will require an impartial judge to determine . to this mr. cressy thus answers ; that my adversary chanced unhappily though innocently to let drop out of his pen one line or two which has undone us all . i know no design of undoing them that any of us have had ; unless it be as some men think they are undone , when they are kept from doing mischief : but i hope we may have leave to take care of our own preservation , and of that religion we ought to value above our lives : but suppose it were so , whom may they thank for it ? him that gave the provocation , or him that did but his duty in defence of his church and religion ? but come , come mr. cressy ; let us not flatter our selves , it is not the fly upon the wheel that raises the dust ; we writers of controversies are no great doers or undoers of publick business . but mr. cressy denyes , that my adversary did lay the imputation on the church of england ; and craves leave with all due respect to tell the person of honour , that it was a great mistake in him to say so . of that we may judge by the very words produced by mr. cressy , viz. whether the judgement of king henry , viz. in forbidding the bible to be read in english , ought not to have been followed in after-times , let the dire effects of so many new sects and fanaticisms as have risen in england from the reading of the scripture bear witness . in which words the rise of sects and fanaticisms is plainly imputed to the reading the scripture , the reading of the scripture in english is an effect of the reformation of the church of england ( for it is the church of england as reformed , that is only the subject of the dispute ) and therefore i appeal to any indifferent person , whether the reformed church of england doth not in their opinion bear the blame of all the sects and fanaticisms ? but this is too plain a thing to be insisted upon : no , saith mr. cressy , the very naming of fanaticism and england in the same line , was provocation enough for me ; who seemed with an impatient longing to have watched for such an advantageous opportunity to empty my voluminous store of collections . how strangely may some be deceived by an overweening imagination ! i was so far from having a voluminous store of collections , that i never thought of the subject , till it came in my way to answer it ; and then i remembred some things i had read to that purpose , which put me upon a farther search into the history of those things . and since mr. cressy will have it out , this is the true account of the birth of that terrible mormo that hath brought so many reproaches and execrations upon me . § . . there are two parts of this charge of fanaticism , which mr. cressy thinks himself particularly concerned in ; and which i shall therefore handle distinctly ; the one concerns mystical divinity ; and the other , the honour of s. benedict , and his rule and order ; these two mr. cressy sets himself with all his force to defend , and i hope before i have done to make mr. cressy repent the heat , he hath shewed about them . i begin with that concerning mystical divinity ; of which mr. cressy still speaks with the greatest veneration imaginable ; he had before called it , the practice of christian vertues and piety in the greatest perfection this life is capable of ; the nearest approach to the state of glorified saints ; the most divine exercise of contemplative souls , more perfectly practised only in heaven : and now he makes a prayer for me , that it would please god to give me and all my friends a holy ambition to aspire to the practice of contemplative prayer , though by me so much despised . but of the good effects he saith it would have upon me , i do the most wonder at that which he adds , viz. that it would exceedingly better my style . i have hitherto thought the choice of clear and proper expressions , such as most easily and naturally convey my thoughts to the mind of another , to be one of the greatest excellencies of style ; but all before mr. cressy , that have been the greatest friends to mystical divinity have endeavoured to excuse the hard words of it . surely never any masters of style , before mr. cressy , thought obscure , strained , affected , unintelligible phrases , were any graces and ornaments of speaking : would it not add much beauty to ones style , to bring in the state of deiformity , the superessential life , the union with god in the pure fund of the spirit , and abundance of such phrases ; which are so very many that maximilian sandaeus the iesuit , hath written a large book only in explication of them : and this is the account he gives of the mystical style ; that it is obscure , involved , lofty , abstracted , and flatulent , that it hath frequent hyperbole's , excesses , and improprieties . and he tells us , there were some , who ( not unhappily ) compared them to paracelsian chymists , who think to make amends for the meanness of their notions , by the obscurity of their terms . carolus hersentius hath nothing to answer to this , but only , that the matter cannot be plainer expressed in mystical divinity ; which is so far from being an argument to me that it can improve ones style , that it gives me very much ground to suspect the very thing it self . for god would never require from men the practice of that ( as certainly he doth the duty of prayer and the greatest love of himself ) which it is impossible for men to understand , when it is proposed to them . what obligation can there be to practise no man knows what ? the christian religion is a very plain and intelligible thing ; and if it had not been so , i do not know , how men could be obliged to believe it ? i do not say , that men could form a distinct conception in their minds of the manner of some of those things which are revealed in it ; as how an infinite being could be united to humane nature ; but this i say , that the terms are very intelligible , and the putting of those terms into a proposition , depends upon divine revelation , viz. that the son of god was incarnate ; so that all the difficulty in this case lyes in the conception of the manner , which by reason of the shortness of our conceptions , as to what relates to an infinite being , ought to be no prejudice to the giving our assent to this revelation ; since we acknowledge the union of a spiritual and material being in the frame of mankind , and are as well puzzled in the conception of the manner of it . but in mystical divinity , i say , the very terms are unintelligible ; for it is impossible for any man to make sense of that immediate union with god in the pure fund of the spirit , wherein the mystical writers do place the perfection of the contemplative life . § . . but because mr. cressy referrs the person of honour for the understanding those mystical phrases , which i had quarrelled with , to the author of the roman churches devotions vindicated , which was purposely writ in answer to me upon this subject ; i shall therefore consider what light he gives us in this matter ; for i am very willing to be better informed . in the beginning he saith , that prayer is the most fundamental part of a christians duty ; if this relates to the matter in hand , viz. of contemplative prayer , it must be implyed , that this is a part at least of that fundamental duty , and if it be so , i think my self obliged to understand it ; and it must be a very culpable ignorance , not to understand so fundamental a part of a christians duty . therefore i shall pass by all his excursions , and hold him close to the matter in debate ; i confess he prepares his way with some artifice , which makes me a little jealous , for things plain and easie need none . he insinuates , . that those who have not these things , cannot well know what they mean ; and then adds , . that the means for obtaining them , are ( in his own words ) much frequent and continued vocal or mental prayer , much solitude and mortifications of our flesh , and abstraction of our thoughts and affections from any creature : much recollection , much meditation on selected subjects , and the endeavouring a quiescence as much as we can from former discourse , ( these actions of the brain and intellect now hindring the heart and will ) and the bringing our selves rather to a simple contemplation ( without any action of the brain or intellect , or at least as little as may be ) to exercise acts of love , adhere to , sigh after and entertain the object thereof : and after this , come passive unions , which are rather gods acts in us than our own , and are particular favours to some , and those not constant . by this explication , i am fallen into utter despair of understanding these things ; for if the acts of the brain and intellect prove such hindrances to the desired union , and the quiescence in order to it be that of discourse , viz. of all ratiocination ; i am utterly at a loss , how this should ever be understood by the persons themselves , and much more how it should be explained to others : and i extreamly wonder at those , who go about to explain things which themselves confess are so far from being understood , that the acts of the understanding are hindrances to the enjoyment of them . but f. baker speaks more plainly in this matter , when he describes this mystick contemplation ; by which , saith he , a soul without discoursings and curious speculations , without any perceptible use of the internal senses , or sensible images , by a pure , simple , and reposeful operation of the mind , in the obscurity of faith simply regards god as infinite and inco●prehensible verity : and with the whole bent of the will rests in him , as her infinite , universal and incomprehensible good. this is true contemplation indeed . and afterwards he adds , that as for the proper exercise of active contemplation , it consists not at all in speculation , but in blind elevations of the will , and ingul●ing it more and more profoundly in god , with no other sight or knowledge of him , but of an obscure faith only . and towards the conclusion of his book he hath these words , we mortifie our passions to the end we may loose them : we exercise discoursive prayer by sensible images , to the end we may loose all use of images and discourse : and we actuate immediately by operations of the will , to the end we may arrive to a state of stability in prayer above all direct exercises of any of the souls faculties : a state wherein the soul being oft brought to the utmost of her workings , is forced to cease all workings to the end that god may operate in her . so that till the soul be reduced to a perfect denudation of spirit , a deprivation of all things , god doth not enjoy a secure and perfect possession of it . nay , he saith elsewhere , that all use of meditation must be for a long space passed and relinquished , before the soul will be brought to this good state of having a continual flux of holy desires . i might produce much more to the same purpose out of him ; but this is enough to shew , that they leave no use of ratiocination or memory , in that which they call the perfect state of the contemplative life ; and how is it then possible , that it should be either understood or explained ? nay , f. baker saith , that there is a cessation of all workings of the soul , which is a little harder yet : but this is that otium mysticum , or divine state of quiescency which the mystical divines magnifie so much ; and which it is impossible to give any account of ; either how the soul being of so active a nature can subsist with a cessation of all her workings ; or supposing that possible , how it can ever give an account of that state wherein there was a cessation of all her workings . it is altogether as possible to give an account of the state of not-being , as of such a state , wherein there were no operations of the soul ; or at least no use of ratiocination and memory . and of all things , methinks it is most improper to call that the state of contemplation ; the state of nothingness , is much more agreeable to it . but o. n. defends this to be a state of contemplation ; for although , saith he , it be applyed to the will , yet its act is not single , but accompanied with a simple intelligence or sight of the object performed by the intellect without any , or at least much discourse thereof ; but this is not fair dealing , for f. baker expresly excludes all discourse , he saith not any , or at least not much ; but if there be any , baker makes it not the state of pure contemplation ; however doth o. n. think that which he calls simple intelligence , or the understanding things without ratiocination , is a thing we are capable of , during the conjunction of soul and body ? but o. n. acknowledges , that these supernatural communications of the divine majesty to some of his choicest servants in prayer are so sublime and high , as that they are described by them not without great difficulty , and unusual expressions , which are not so well understood but by such as have experienced such favours which also happen to very few . why then do they undertake to explain them ? why do they write of them , and publish them to the world ? but commend me to mr. cressy himself , who gives me a very plain reason why i do not understand these things ; viz. in the words of s. paul , that , the sensual man neither does nor can possibly understand them , because they are spiritually discerned , and therefore no wonder if they be esteemed foolishness by him who has never experienced them . what , yet more of your charity mr. cressy ? i pretend to no mystical unions ; and should think it no perfection , much less a state of pure contemplation , to have all operations of my mind suspended ; but what then ? must i be a sensual man for this , and uncapable of understanding the things of the spirit of god ? this answer , i should have expected from a quaker ; and it is the common place they run to , when any tell them , that they talk non-sense , or unintelligible canting ; and i dare say , they speak nothing more unintelligible than this mystical divinity ; i might have expected this answer from a follower of iacob behmen , who talks very sublime things too in his way ; and very much like mystical divinity . i might have expected it from a rosycrucian ; for i find , that he who writ the epistle apologetical for the brethren of that order , produces the very same places of scriptur● to justifie them , that o. n. and mr. cressy do for mystical divinity ; and saith , that theirs was a gift of perfection , which god did not communicate to all , but only to his elect ; and therefore no wonder if others did not understand it . but what it mr. cressy doth not after all this understand s. paul ? and it is most evident he doth not . for s. paul doth not there speak of any that had embraced the christian doctrine , and rejected any sublime pretence of devotion , as a thing not intelligible or consonant to the christian religion ( which are the reasons of my rejecting mystical divinity ) but he speaks of such , who rejected the doctrine of christianity it self , because it depended upon divine revelation . and so the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is not the sensual man , as mr. cressy out of meer charity to me renders it ; but the man that supposes such a natural sufficiency in the humane soul in order to its own perfection and happiness , ( as the philosophers did ) that there was no necessity either of divine revelation to discover any new doctrine , or of divine grace to conduct us to our happiness . this i could easily make appear to be s. pauls meaning , from the consideration of the design of his discourse , as well as the importance of the words , and the consent of the best interpreters of s. paul ; i mean s. chrysostome , and his disciples , viz. isidore pelusiot , and the greek scholiasts ; but i forbear , for fear mr. cressy should think , i take another opportunity to empty my voluminous store of collections . but notwithstanding all the endeavours of mr. cressy and his friend n. o. to make the state of contemplation as described by f. baker , more intelligible , it hath yet so much of darkness and shadow in it , that the more they pursue it , the farther it flyes from them . § . . but that is not all the quarrel i have to this mystical divinity , that it is unintelligible ; but that it leads persons into strange illusions of fancy , and when they think themselves freest from images , they do then labour most under the power of a strong imagination , embracing only the clouds of their own fancies instead of such an immediate union with the divine essence in the pure fund of the spirit . and this i take to be a great injury , not only to those melancholy souls , that are led through this valley of shades and darkness ; but to the christian religion it self , as though the way of perfection taught by it were a low , mean , contemptible thing in comparison of the mystical flights of this contemplative way . there are these two things therefore i shall endeavour to shew , . that this mystical way hath no foundation at all in the christian doctrine , . the way and manner , how it came into the christian church , and hath obtained so much favour in it . . that it hath no foundation at all in the christian doctrine . it is the great excellency of the christian religion , that it gives us such incomparable directions in order to the compleat felicity of our immortal souls . that it hath not only discovered more plainly , and fully , the blessed state of another life ; but teaches men the most effectual way to prepare their minds for it ; viz. by sincere repentance , by inward purity , by subduing our passions , and due government of our actions according to the rules of temperance and justice , by dependence on divine providence as to the affairs of this world , by patience under afflictions , by doing good to others , although our enemies and per●ecutors ; by deep humility and mean thoughts of our selves ; by a large charity , thinking as well of , as doing well to others ; by valuing the concernments of another life , above the advantages of this , ( which is called self-denyal ; ) and to that degree , that when our religion calls for it , we should willingly part with our lives for the sake of it . this , as far as i can understand it , is the summary comprehension of a christians duty , in order to his happiness ; and by patient continuance in well-doing he may with reason hope for the enjoyment of that blessed state which is reserved to another life . the which being made known to the world by the doctrine of christ , therefore faith in our lord iesus christ is made so necessary a part of a christians duty ; and because we want divine supplyes , and assistance , to enable us to do our duty , therefore we are so much commanded to be frequent and ●ervent in prayer ; and many promises and encouragements are given to the due performance of it , from gods readiness to hear the prayers of the righteous , and to grant the requests they make to him . all this , is not only excellent in it self , and most reasonable to be done , but very easie to understand ; but not a word in all this tending to any immediate union with god in the pure fund of the spirit , or such a state of contemplation wherein the operations of the soul are suspended ; nothing of passive unions and visions and raptures , as such things which every christian who looks for perfection , may hope for . it is true , we are often commanded to love god with all our hearts ; but withal we are told , we must not fancy this love to be a meer languishing passion towards an infinite object ( which we therefore love , because we do not understand ; but see him only in profound darkness , and clasp about him with the closest embraces , being united to him in the most immediate manner : and being melted in the fruition of him . which are luscious metaphors brought into the christian doctrine from that antient family of love , i mean the school of plato ; as i shall shew afterwards . ) but the love of christians towards god is no fond amorous passion ; but a due apprehension and esteem of the divine excellencies ; a hearty sense of all his kindness to us ; and a constant readiness of mind to do his will ; for this is the love of god to keep his commandments . and if any man say i love god and hateth his brother , he is a lyar ; for he that loveth not his brother , whom he hath seen , how can he love god whom he hath not seen ? no man hath seen god at any time . if we love one another , god dwelleth in us , and his love is perfected in us . thus the beloved disciple who understood the greatest mysteries of divine love hath expressed them to us : and thus the beloved son of god hath declared what he means by the love he expects from his disciples , if ye love me keep my commandments . and ye are my friends , if ye do whatsoever i command you . here is nothing of an abstracted life , or internal and external solitude , or self-annihilation in order to an immediate active union with god in the supream point of the spirit ; nothing of blind elevations of the will , without the use of reason and discourse , ingulfing it more and more profoundly in god ; all these mystical notions and expressions had another spring and more impure fountain than the christian doctrine . § . . not so ; say o. n. and mr. cressy , for if they may be believed there is ground in scripture for all the most lofty mystical expressions . if so , i must retract what i have said ; but i never knew any men that needed more an infallible interpreter of scripture than they do ; they make such lamentable expositions of it ; if they can but hit upon a word or a phrase to their purpose , away they run with that , and never consider the design or importance of it . what work doth o. n. make with his cor altum , and regnum dei intra vos ? whereas the first signifies nothing , but due consideration , nor the other any thing , but that the kingdom of the messias was then come among them . and what are these to mystical divinity ? and mr. cressy 's accedite ad deum & illuminamini , is altogether to as much purpose ; for is there no instruction to be had from god , or his law , short of passive unions ? no enlightning our minds , but by immediate inspirations ? but mr. cressy thinks he hath done the business and quite stopped my mouth with s. paul 's 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; who being in a wonderful extasie , saw and heard god only knows what : which although he was willing to communicate , yet he had not the power to do it . but as the person of honour hath already very well told mr. cressy , what is this to those who go about to express what neither themselves nor any else can understand ? if they pretend to the same extasies , why do they not imitate his modesty ? why do they go about to help s. paul to words to do it by , if himself declared it could not be done by words ? to which mr. cressy answers as much as was to be answered , which is , just nothing . but his author o. n. brings the same place ; and not only that , but all those which mention the revelations of the prophets or apostles . to what purpose ? do i deny any divine revelations ? do i give the least intimation that i questioned , whether there were any true inspirations in the writers of holy scriptures ? god forbid ! but how doth it follow , if god did inspire men to declare his will to mankind ; therefore all the pretences to revelations and inspirations in the roman church are true ? if s. paul had once a true rapture ; therefore all s. teresa 's were such , and not the effects of a vehement imagination . let us observe the difference , not only in the value and excellency and judgement of the persons ; but in the very manner of relating them . her life written by her self ( to which o. n. appeals in this matter , as the great instance of the strictness and caution of the roman church in examining and approving visions and revelations ) consists almost wholly of a very plentiful narration of her raptures and visions . she began , she saith , to be awakened about six or seven years old , her mother having made her to say her prayers and be devout to our blessed lady and some other saints ; wherein she very much out-went s. paul , who never so much as once mentions her in all his writings . after this , she relates her very great sickness , so great that she saith , it alwayes deprived her almost of her senses , and sometimes altogether : and after she had read the third a , b , c ( a book of mystical divinity ) she saith , she came to quiet prayer , and arrived to passive unions before she was twenty years old ; and herein again she far out-went s. paul. she confesses , that she was in so great torment , that they were afraid who were about her , that she would have gone mad ; that she was put into such a heat that her sinews began to shrink with such intolerable pains that she could take no rest neither day nor night , but was continually oppressed with a most profound melancholy . these are the very words written by her self as they are translated out of spanish by an english iesuit ; after this she saith , she fell into a trance ; so that she remained without sense almost four dayes , after which she remained under violent torments , and her head exceedingly distempered ; and was not perfectly recovered in three years . then she took s. joseph for her patron ; whom she called her father and protector ; and whereas other saints help us in some one necessity , she had experience that this saint helpeth us in all ; and that our lord will give us to understand , that as he was subject to him on earth , so likewise in heaven he obtaineth whatsoever he asketh . ( i am very much mistaken if this savour not of other kind of divinity than ever s. paul preached ) and she adds , that she had a great zeal to perswade others to be devout to this glorious saint : because he helpeth those souls exceedingly which commend themselves to him ; especially those that desire a master to teach them how to pray ; ( i suppo●e she means this contemplative way ) . after such an account given of her self , i do not at all wonder at the frequency of her visions and raptures ; in one , she saith , she saw christ more plainly with the eyes of her soul , than she could have seen him with the eyes of her body ; and she looked upon it as a temptation of the devil , that she was ready to think , this was nothing but imagination . after this , she relates at large how she came to be swallowed up in the depths of mystical theologie ; and talks of gods suspending the operations of the understanding ; in which , she saith , it understandeth more in the space of a creed without discoursing , than we can understand with all our earthly diligences in many years : this she calls , being wholly ingulfed in god ; and distinguisheth this state , wherein the soul seems to be altogether out of her self , from visions ; and she describes the third degree of prayer to be a glorious frenzy , an heavenly folly ; in which , she saith , she had been as it were frantick and drunken in this love , and could never understand how it was ; and in this state , she saith , they speak many words in gods praise without order , at least the understanding is nothing worth here ; for she adds , that then she speaketh a thousand follies , and she knew one who , being no poet , chanced to compose very significant verses extempore , declaring his pain very well , not made by his own wit. but there is a degree beyond this , which she calls , the state of not feeling , but enjoying without understanding what we enjoy ; but how this union is , and what it is , she cannot give it to be understood , but leaves it to the mystical theology . afterwards she distinguisheth between union and raptures : and saith , that these exceed union , which he that writes the glosses in the margin saith , that she means that the soul enjoyeth god more in raptures ; but she tells us , that union seemeth beginning , midst and end ; but our lord must declare this , i. e. she knew not what she meant herself . in some of her raptures she speaks of gods carrying away her soul , and almost ordinarily her head also after her , so that she could not detain it , and sometimes her whole body lifting it up : in these she saith , she undergoes great violence , and she was quite tyred with them : at other times she saith , her body was so light in raptures , that all the heaviness of it was taken away ; or rather , that the body remaineth as it were dead , without doing any thing , in which sometimes the senses are wholly lost ; but ordinarily they are troubled : and in the height of raptures , she saith , they neither hear , nor see , nor feel in her opinion ; no power hath the use of it self , nor knoweth what passeth in this occasion ; nor are we capable of understanding it . in this state , she saith , the soul is ingulfed ; or to say better , our lord is ingulfed in her , and keeping her in himself for a little space , she remaineth with her will alone : and sets forth the body as bound for many hours in it , and yet sometime the understanding and memory distracted ; and after they return to themselves . when the rapture is over , it happeneth sometimes that our powers are so absorpt and as it were drowned for a day or two or three , that it seemeth they are not in themselves . there are these circumstances more to be observed concerning her : . that she was under great bodily weakness all this while . . that at this time when she had so many of these raptures , she confesses her self , that she was very backward and in the beginnings of vertues and mortifications . . that her great friends who had examined and considered her case , declared to her , that they looked upon all these things as delusions of the devil ; upon which she applyed her self to the jesuits , who encouraged her very much , and told her , it was the spirit of god ; and henceforward they were the great men who gave her directions , not to resist those impulsions and elevations , as she had been advised before ; and put her upon greater perfection ; then she fell into her raptures , and understood in one of them , that hence forward she was not to converse with men , but angels : and after this , she had such kind of voices very frequent within her , which she saith , are very formal words , but not heard with corporal ears , but understood much more plainly , than if they were heard ; and these speeches , she saith afterwards , were very continual with her ; and she had visions very frequently ; in one of which she saw only the hands of christ , and in another his divine countenance , which seemed wholly to abstract her , and afterwards she saw him altogether , but not with her corporal eyes , she confesses : and she satisfied her self , it could not be her imagination only , although her confessor told her so , because the beauty was so great , as to exceed her imagination ; yet he still encouraged her , when as appears by her own confession , others about her whom she had a great opinion of , endeavoured to convince her it was only her imagination , to her great trouble ; insomuch , that she saith , the contradiction of the good were sufficient to have put her out of her wits . this vision of the beauty of christ continued ordinarily with her for two years and an half , in which she had a great desire to see the colour of his eyes , and what bigness they were of , but never could obtain that favour . when the iesuit-confessor was out of the way , others told her plainly , it was the devil that deluded her ; and they bid her cross her self when she saw a vision ; she held a cross in her hand to save her self the trouble , and christ took it in his and gave it her again with four precious stones which had the five wounds artificially engraven upon them , which no body could see but her self . after this , she had a vision of angels , and clearly discerned the coelestial hierarchy ; but she supposed one of those she saw to be one of the seraphins , who pierced her heart with a fiery dart , and when he pulled it out again , it left her wholly inflamed with great love to god ; but under excessive pain , which yet caused so great pleasure , that she could not desire to 〈◊〉 removed : in the dayes that this 〈◊〉 she saith , she was like a fool , she desired neither to see nor speak , but to embrace her pain . not long after she relates , how sometimes for three weeks together her imagination would be so tormented with trifles and toyes , that she could think of nothing else : then she fell into such a fit of dulness and heaviness without any kind of sense or remembrance of her former visions and raptures ; or else no otherwise than as of a dream to afflict , and then she was full of doubts and suspicions , that all was but imagination ; and if she conversed with any , the devil put her in such a distasteful spirit of anger , that it seemed as if she would eat all , not being able to do otherwise . then again , she had comfort in an instant , sometimes with a word , sometimes with visions ; which continued for a time more frequent than before ; then she thought , that her bodily sickness was the cause of her former disturbance , and that her understanding was so unruly , that it seemed like a furious fool , whom no body could bind , neither was she able to keep it quiet for the space of a creed : at other times again she compares her self to an ass , being in a manner without any feeling ; and so it falleth out oft-times , she saith , that one while she laughed at her self , and other times she was much afflicted ; and the inward motion provoked her to put posies and flowers upon images , and such kind of imployments . after this , the scene of her imagination was quite changed , for it represented nothing but devils to her : in which state , she tryed one pleasant experiment , viz. how much more the devils are afraid of holy water , than of the sign of the cross ; from the cross they fly , but so as to return presently , but from the holy water , so as to return no more , ( methinks then she should have used it but once ) and it was not more terrible to devils , than she found it comfortable to her soul ; for she saith , that she found a particular and very evident comfort when she took it , and such a delight which strengthned her whole soul : which she found very often , and considered it with great reflection : then she relates , her being in spirit in hell , and what she endured there ; and towards the conclusion , her being placed in heaven in a rapture , and seeing what was done there , where she saw her father and mother , &c. after which she adds , that our lordshewed her greater secrets ( what! than what is done in heaven ? ) for it is not possible , she saith , to see more than was represented unto her ; the least part of it was sufficient to make her soul remain astonished ; and found it impossible to declare some little part of it . and now we find her at s. pauls height , and need go no farther in the account of her visions , which continues to the end of her book ; but let me ask o. n. who hath particularly recommended this life to the consideration of any sober protestant , whether he doth in good earnest think that m. teresa had the same kind of raptures that s. paul had ? i know he must not say otherwise , since the roman church hath canonized her for a saint ; but i think , they had done her a greater kindness , to have appointed her good physicians in time , instead of her iesuitical confessors . i could hardly have thought , that among christians i should have found s. pauls rapture parallel'd by such as these ; but we have lived to see strange things . if s. paul had discovered in his writings so many symptoms of a disturbed fancy , such an oppression of melancholy , such rovings of imagination , such an uncertainty of temper ; could we ever think the world would have believed that ecstasie , which he expresseth with so much modesty , and makes so many apologies for himself , that he was forced to mention it ; by the false apostles boasting of their revelations ? it is not expedient for me doubtless to glory ; i will come to visions and revelations of the lord. i knew a man in christ above fourteen years ago , &c. of such a one will i glory , yet of my self i will not glory , but in mine infirmities ; — but now i forbear lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be , or that he heareth of me . although he had many revelations , he mentions but one ; and that with the greatest modesty that may be under a third person , and that above fourteen years ago . he tells no long stories of a succession of visions and raptures , and sights of angels and devils ; mixed with many impertinencies and indications of a disordered imagination . but saith o. n. that could not be in s. teresa , considering the diligence that was used for several years in the tryal of her spirit , and her visions were confirmed to be from god , by a general attestation of them throughout the christian world ; even those who suspected and questioned them at first afterwards magnifying them . but i desire no other evidence in this case , than what she gives her self ; supposing the matters of fact to be true according to her own relation ; not that i would condemn her , according to mr. cressy 's soft language , as a hypocritical visionaire ; nor as many of her friends did , as one deluded by the devil ; but i see nothing in her case but what might be a natural effect of an over-heated imagination , in a person of a very melancholy devout temper , especially being before-hand possessed with the notions of mystical divinity . and for the approbations given to her visions i do not wonder at them , since there was a design to canonize her for a saint , and she was the foundress of a new order ; and that there was something relating to this , in the penning of her visions , seems to be not obscurely intimated in the last page of her book , where she desires him to whom she writ it , to make haste to serve his majesty , that he might do her a favour ; for it seems by her own relation , her order met with great contradiction at court. and for the approbation of her books , i do no more wonder at that , than i do at others that proceed upon the same principles , viz. of mystical theologie . but i do exceedingly admire at those persons , who dare to bring the single instance of s. pauls rapture , to justifie all the pretences to visions and raptures , of the melancholy and distempered women of their church . if we had not so great reason to put such a mighty difference between them , as to the wisdom of the persons , the reasonableness of their doctrine , the miracles wrought to confirm the testimony of the apostles ; it would be , as cardinal bessarion said of the canonizations of new saints , that it made men question the old ; so these new raptures and visions would expose the credit and authority of undoubtedly divine revelations . therefore let mr. cressy and o. n. have a care , while they are so ready to charge me with blaspheming gods saints , that by making the case so parallel between the prophets and apostles and their new saints , they do not lay in the way of all considering men of their church , one of the greatest temptations to infidelity . § . . but o. n. hath not yet done : for he brings all those phrases of scripture , that relate to the sanctification of mens souls by divine grace , and the comfort of gods spirit , and the extraordinary revelations which came by the pouring out of the holy ghost upon the apostles and their disciples , to justifie the expressions of mystical divinity ; which are all extreamly impertinent , unless he can prove from any of them such an union with the divine essence , as excludes the use of ratiocination in the soul ; wherein the perfection of contemplative prayer is placed , and all the other phrases are to be understood with a respect to this . and what though there be two spirits working within us , and there be degrees of spiritual persons , and the spirit assists the souls of men with good motions which ought not to be resisted ; and what if some have a greater measure of this assistance than others ; what if excellent minds may attain to an assurance that they are under the conduct of the divine spirit , and may have great comfort and satisfaction therein ; nay , what if i should grant , that a state of perfection were attainable in this life ; yet all this were nothing to his purpose ; unless he can prove , that the supposing the perfection of a christian to be consistent with laying aside the use of all ratiocination , as it is in the mystical union , doth not expose men to the greatest enthusiasm , and most fanatick delusions imaginable . i mean that state , which himself expresses , by those supernatural elevations wherein are communicated to the soul many times celestial secrets , and divine mysteries , and future events by internal words and revelation ; all which things are received by it with a great tranquillity and attention , and cessation of the natural use of its faculties sensitive or intellectual : nor seems it in its own disposal while it hath these touches . and this is that , he tells us , which the mystick divines express by the terms of a supernatural , or rather superessential life , a deisormity , or deification ; of a sense or fruition of gods presence in the fund , depth , or center , or innermost part of the soul , or also in the apex or supream point of it ; of passive unions , wherein is to be understood not an exclusion of all acts whatsoever , but an exclusion of any discursive and laborious acts , and any primary moving of it self to action . this explication i accept of ; and undertake to make it appear , that in it is contained the greatest height of fanaticism . for what can be imagined greater , than to exempt all pretenders to enthusiasm and divine inspiration from any tryal by humane reason ? for if no persons are competent iudges of these supernatural elevations , but those which have experience of them ; as they assert ; if by virtue of these elevations men come to the knowledge of divine mysteries and future events by internal words and revelation ; what is to be done with any person who pretends to these elevations ? must their confessors judge of them ? but why ? for either they have not experienced these things , and then they are no competent iudges ; or they have , and then they are pretenders to the same things , and ought as much to be judged by others : but how ? by the acts of reason , and the rules of it ? how is that possible , when they are supposed to be above all acts of reason and discourse ? and to do it without reason , will be as little honour to the iudges , as it will be vindication to the pretenders . but the church is to be iudge : why so ? since the spirit can no more deceive one than a thousand ; and they have satisfaction in themselves , that it is the spirit of god in them , as much as it is possible for any to have that the spirit of god directs the church ; nay , much greater , for the other is only the certainty of reason and discourse ; but this is an inward certainty of experience , above all ratiocination . but how again shall the church judge of this ? if the church pretend to the same thing , she is lyable to the same accusation ; if she does not , she can have no pretence to judge of things that are to be known only by experience . so that if men speak consequently and agreeably to themselves , there is no way of tryal left for pretenders to these things . and what should hinder every enthusiast from this pretence , or something very like it ; viz. divine inspiration ? why should the pretence to the spirit be more lyable to the tryal of other mens reason or authority , than the pretence to mystical unions ? cannot they make use of the very same places of scripture to justifie all the fanatick pretences to immediate impulses and motions of the divine spirit ? cannot they tell men as easily , that they that are unexperienced are no iudges in this case ; and that the sensual man cannot understand the things of the spirit of god ? nay , these have been the very pleas of all our enthusiasts , and there is scarce one place of scripture mentioned by o. n. which they have not been before-hand with him , in producing to the very same purpose . i cannot then find out the difference , between the highest of our enthusiasts and theirs ; and the very same pleas which serve for the one , will justifie the other also . what have they ever pretended to , but to understand celestial secrets , divine mysteries , or future events by immediate revelation ? now all these things are owned , defended and justified by the roman church , and yet they not lyable to the charge of fanaticism ? § . . no , saith o. n. enthusiasm or fanaticism doth not lye in speaking things hard to be understood , nor yet the pretending high and mysterious effects , visions , revelations , &c. for all these we believe may be and are often wrought in gods saints by the holy spirit , and his special presence in their souls , and that we say in a much higher and more admirable way , than any of satans infatuations can imitate or ascend to ; but fanaticism is a false pretence of these , or the like , when having no just ground to be credited , they pretend to them . so that the main point is yielded up to the fanaticks , viz. visions and immediate revelations , and unaccountable impulses from the spirit of god ; all the dispute is , whether the popish enthusiasts or those among us are only pretenders ? if o. n. were to convince a quaker who pretends to such an immediate impulse of the spirit , this must be his method of proceeding with him . friend , i perceive thou talkest much of the spirit of god moving thee and revealing the hidden mysteries of his kingdom to thee , but thy pretence is vain , and thou art deceived by thy own fancy , if not by an evil spirit . no , saith the quaker , i know , i am not , for i have the testimony of the spirit within me that i am not deceived ; but thou art deceived and lyest against the holy ghost , and blasphemest the spirit of god working in his saints . not i , saith o. n. i grant that the holy ghost doth work in his saints such supernatural elevations , whereby they understand divine mysteries , and have visions and raptures and revelations more than any of you ; but all ours are true , and yours are false . thou lying prophet , replyes the quaker , gods speaks truth by thee , as he did once by balaams ass and caiaphas ; but thou through the wickedness of thy heart dost condemn the generation of his saints among us as hypocrites ; and wouldst have the spirit of god dwell only among you , that are the sons of mystical babylon and partake of all her defilements , that are the seed of the beast and the false prophet , that commit adultery with images , and set up the man of sin in his throne , that have covered the face of the earth with your abominations , and still go about to deceive the nations . you have the spirit of god among you ! you pretend to the seeing hidden mysteries , and immediate revelations and mystical unions with god! no , yours are the mysteries of iniquity , the revelations of antichrist , and unions only with mystical babylon . you have the spirit of god among you ! no , yours is the spirit of enchantment and divination , the spirit of lying and deceit , the spirit of antichrist and not of god. i say again , saith o. n. that we have the spirit , and you have not . and i say by the spirit , that you have not , saith the quaker . and is not this a fair conclusion of this dispute ? hath not o. n. extreamly got the better of the quaker ? but o. n. pleads yet farther , that they make use of notes and rules of discerning of the pretences to inspiration ; which i shall consider afterwards : but that which o. n. and mr. cressy do most insist upon , is this , that if such pretenders to inspirations do speak or do any thing against the catholick church ( as they call it ) then their pretences are to be rejected as satanical illusions . very good ! this is a way to preserve themselves , but what is this to the preventing the delusions of such fanatick pretenders to inspirations , who may be grosly deceived , and yet never speak or do any thing against their church ; but it seems the least touch that way presently marrs all . if mother teresa had but chanced to let fall a word against the power of holy water in driving away devils , or chanced in one of her visions to have seen bread upon the altar , after consecration ; away with her , a meer hypocrite and impostor , one deluded by the devil : and it had been well , if after all her visions and raptures , she had escaped the inquisition . for can it possibly be so certain , that she had divine visions , as that holy water drives away devils ; or that she had mystical unions , as that no bread remained upon the altar after consecration ? no , no. if melancholy women once offer to meddle in those matters , they must then be told of their weakness of iudgement and strength of imagination and delusions of the devil ; but if they admire every superstitious foolery , and see strange effects of holy water , and in some visions can discern the very flesh and blood of christ in the e●charist , then o heavenly visions ! o divine saint ! then her confessor must sooth and flatter her , and suffer her to be deceived by her own imagination at least , if not by something worse . so that this whole business of visions and revelations among them is managed by politick rules ; if they can serve to strengthen their interest , they are encouraged , if not , the persons are presently discountenanced , and if they persist in their pretences , in great hazard of the inquisition . but may not weak and melancholy persons be deceived in judging the effects of a strong imagination to be the inspirations of the spirit of god ? what then , say they ? these do no h●rt to the world. but is it no injury to their souls , to suffer them to be so deluded ? is it no dishonour to christian religion to make the perfection of the devotion of it to consist in such strange unaccountable unions and raptures , which take away the use of all reason and discourse ? is it nothing to have persons canonized for saints , and admired and worshipped , chiefly for the sake of these things ? in which case , not only the particular persons , while they lived , were suffered to be abused ; but the whole christian world as much as lyes in them , is imposed upon ; and the effects of a strong imagination , and mystical unions , are recommended as the perfection of the christian state. § . . but whatever rules they go by ; i shall now shew , that such kind of ecstasies and revelations , as the mystical divinity pretends to , have been condemned by the christian church in former ages ; which will yet farther discover , how far it is from being a part of the cristian doctrine ; ●o far is it from being the perfection of a christian state. and the instance i shall produce , will be such a one , wherein the judgement of the whole christian church was seen , viz. in the ecstatical visions and raptures and revelations which montanus and his followers pretended to . baronius proves from the testimonies of philastrius , epiphanius , theodoret and others , that montanus and his companions were good catholicks , and great practisers of fasting and mortifications , and were in great esteem in the church for a more than ordinary degree of sanctity ; when they wee in this reputation they pretended to have extraordinary visions and ecstasies , wherein they suffered such violences as mother teresa describes ; and were under such a force upon their minds , as they thought divine , which deprived them of the present use of ratiocination , in which state , they said , they had many revelations from god. now here we have the very case of mystical unions ; and we all know that this spirit of montanus was rejected in the christian church as a fanatick enthusiastical spirit ; but , it will be worth our while , to shew that it was upon this very ground , because the montanists pretended to such ecstasies and revelations from god , which deprived men of the use of their reason . claudius apollinaris bishop of hierapolis apprehending the dangerous consequences of these enthusiastical pretences to ecstasies and revelations goes to ancyra in galatia to give himself full satisfaction as to the nature of them ; and being returned , he writes this account to his friend marcellus , that montanus was wont to fall into sudden transports and ecstasies in which he became enthusiastical , and uttered strange things , and prophesie ; which , saith he , is a thing contrary to the constant tradition and practice of the christian church ; the same he saith of the two female enthusiasts , prisca and maximilla ; and all the account he gives of their separation from the communion of the church was because the christian church all over the world refused to give any entertainment to their enthusiastical spirit , and that the churches of asia having met together and examined this spirit , they condemned it as impious , whereupon they were cast out of the church ; upon which maximilla cryed out , i am driven away as a wolf from the sheep , but i am no wolf , but the word , and the spirit , and the power . miltiades , as appears by eusebius , writ a book against the montanists on this subject , that god did not communicate revelations in ecstasies ; wherein he shewed , that montanus was wont to fall into his ecstasies which ended in an involuntary madness ; and then proves that none of the prophets either of the old or new testament ever prophesied in ecstasies , or when they had no use of their reason . but no one speaks more punctually to this business , than epiphanius , who layes down this as a general rule , that whatever prophets spake , they delivered with the clear use of their reason and understanding ; and afterwards saith , that the montanists were very much deceived in pretending to such visions and revelations , because god had sealed up his church , and put an end to those extraordinary gifts . while there was any need of prophets , holy men of god were sent by him with a true spirit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , with great steadiness of mind , and a clear understanding ; and afterwards makes this the characteristical difference of a true and false prophet ; that a true prophet speaks 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , with a great consistency of ratiocination and consequence . thus moses , thus isaiah , saith he , thus all the prophets ; do not you see , saith he , that these are the words of men that understood themselves , and not of men that were ecstatical : but these pretenders to visions and revelations speak dark and perplexed and obscure things ( viz. much like to mystical divinity ) which neither they understood themselves nor those that hear them . as any one may see in him by the fragments he hath preserved both of montanus and maximilla . but they pleaded scripture too for their ecstasies and raptures , viz. gen● . . . gods sending upon adam a deep sleep , which was rendered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; to which epiphanius answers , that that was only a binding of his senses by natural rest ; and not any force upon the mind ; but they had another place too as impertinent as this , ( but as impertinent as it is , it is the very same phrase that my adversaries produce ) ego dixi in ●xcessu meo ; which epiphanius proves cannot be understood of any such ecstasie as the montanists pleaded for ; and in truth he needed not take much pains to do it : but they could not follow the montanists exactly , unless they abused scripture too to justifie their visions and ecstasies : so one ferdinandus de diano a venetian divine , writing a book purposely in vindication of these things , on the occasion of the ecstasies and visions of a certain nun , which were sent to paul the fifth , and which were taken by her confessor for fourteen years together , makes use of the very same phrases of scripture as the montanists did ; but exceeds them in impertinency : for to prove raptures he produces all the places where the word raptus is used ; raptus est , nè malitia mutaret intellectum ejus , sap. . mens illius ad diversa rapitur , job . rapiemur cum illis in nubibus , thess. . but above all , commend me to holofernes his rapture to prove the raptures of the popish saints ; holophernis oculi à sandalibus iudith rapti sunt , & ejus cor & sensus cum illis rapta sunt , jud. . can any man be so hard hearted to withstand such manifest proofs as these are ? but to return to epiphanius ; we are not to understand , saith he , any rapture or ecstasie of the prophets , so as to suppose them to be deprived of the use of their reason and them : so he shews that s. peter in his ecstasie had still the free exercise of his reason ; which he absolutely affirms of every prophet both of the old and new testament . what would epiphanius have thought then of the glorious frenzies and heavenly follies of m. teresa , in which she spake she knew not what ? what of the mystical unions wherein the operations of the understanding are suspended ? what of all the holy violences she underwent wherein both understanding and memory were distracted ? no doubt , he would have declared them all to be downright montanism ; and condemned by the whole christian church . neither were these the only persons who delivered the sense of the church in this matter ; but s. hierom saith the same thing ; the prophet , saith he , speaks not in an ecstasie ( as montanus , and prisca , and maximilla fondly imagine ) but what he prophesies is the book of the vision of one who understands all he sayes . so of the prophet habakkuk , he understands what he sees ( contrary to the perverse doctrine of montanus ) and speaks not as a fool , nor gives ( as distracted women do ) a sound without any signification . whence it comes that the apostle commands that if any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by , the first should hold his peace , for , saith he presently after , god is not the author of confusion , but of peace ; whence it follows , that he who holds his peace to give way to another to speak , he can either speak or hold his peace at his pleasure ; but that he who speaks in an ecstasie , i. e. against his will , is not at liberty to speak or to be silent . and to the same purpose he speaks in other places , in which , he saith , that all the visions and revelations which came ●rom god were full of wisdom and reason ; and not like the extravagancies of montanus . nay s. chrysostom goes higher , and imputes all fanatick ecstasies to the devil , who breaks in upon the soul , and blinds the understanding , and darkens the reasoning faculty ; but the spirit of god doth not so ; but suffers the heart to know what it sayes . the devil as an enemy fights against the humane soul , but the holy spirit as taking care of it , and ready to do it good , communicates his counsel to those who receive it , and reveals unto them divine things with understanding . and elsewhere , he makes this the great difference between divination and divine revelation ; that the one was done in ecstasies and rapture , with violence to the mind ; the other ●●dately and composedly , and understanding whatever they spake : for god did not press them by violence , nor darkned their understandings ; but did advise and teach them , leaving them still masters of themselves , whence jonas fled , and ezekiel put off , and jeremiah excused himself . s. basil utterly denyes that the humane understanding was ever suspended by divine revelation ; or that men were by the spirit of god deprived of the use of ratiocination . for how does it stana with reason , that through the wisdom of the spirit , a man should become as one besides himself ? and that the spirit of knowledge should deliver things incoherent ? for neither is light the cause of blindness , nor does the spirit cause obscurity in mens minds , but raises the understanding to the contemplation of things intelligible , cleansing it from the stains of sin ; nor is it improbable that through the design of the evil spirit , ( who layes his ambushes to ensnare humane nature ) the mind is confounded ; but to say , the same is done by the spirit of god , is impious . from all which testimonies , nothing can be more evident , than that the visions and revelations , the ecstasies and raptures , which s. c. and o. n. do plead for , were condemned by the whole christian church , and the most eminent lights of it , as the very height of fanaticism . but o. n. would have men believe , that the antient church did very much favour such ecstasies and visions ; to that end he produces the testimony of tertullian , concerning the sister that fell into an ecstasie , and had the vision of the corporeity of the soul : as though tertullian were not known to have taken the part of montanus in this matter ; and in that very place ( in the next words to those cited by o n. ) he pleads for the contin●ance of visions and ecstasies in the christian church , and in several other places of the same b●ok . and i desire o. n. and his brethren to consi●er a little better what they say , when they charge me with making all antiquity fanatick , upon the same grounds that i charge fanaticism on their church ; for it is most evident by this discourse , that i have the best and purest antiquity , and the full consent of the christian church in the case of montanus , clearly on my side . and i declare freely , that i value this consent above all the writers of the lives of saints , from s. antonies downwards ; and it is the only considerable thing which diano saith on this subject , if we do not allow of visions and raptures and revelations , what will become , saith he , of all the lives of the saints and the legends which are full of them ? as may be seen in lippoman , surius , baronius , and the monastick histories of the dominicans and franciscans . what will become of the speculum exemplorum , of the promptuaria , the liber apum , the legends of the blessed virgin , and a thousand such excellent books ? truly , it is the least part of my concernment what becomes of them ; and i think it had been much more for the honour of christianity , if they had never been writ . and if as o. n. saith it be now too late to cry such things down , i am very heartily sorry for it : and it is a plain discovery that the spirit of montanus hath too much possessed that which they call the catholick church . but o. n. besides tertullian produces several passages of s. augustin to justifie these supernatural and extraordinary graces and caresses received from god ; ( for those of s. gregory and s. bernard are not of so great weight in this matter , to deserve a particular consideration , where the consent of the christian church is so fully proved already ) s. augustin is brought in by him , as acknowledging his conversion from manichaism to have been from a divine revelation concerning gods incorruptibility and immutability : but what were this to the purpose , if the free use and exercise of his reason were continued therein ? yet no such thing doth appear by any thing said by s. augustin . in the dispute with fortunatus , he doth say , that he would answer that which god would have him to know , that god could suffer no necessity , nor have any violence put upon him , ( which fortunatus saith , god had revealed to him ) and in the conclusion , making use of the force of that argument , he saith , by that he was divinely admonished to leave the manichean doctrine . and what is all this to mystical divinity ? what immediate revelation , or vision , or rapture was this , for a man to acknowledge there was something divine in the force of a particular argument to convince him ? do i ever call it fanaticism , for men to acknowledge the grace of god in the illumination of their minds , when some particular arguments may perswade them at some times , which at another might not have done it ? and to let us see that s. augustin meant no such thing as any particular revelation in this case , in the seventh book of confessions he gives an account by what steps and degrees he was brought off from manichaism , and as much by the exercise of reason and understanding , as we shall easily meet with in any person . and as to this particular argument , as though he had a mind to prevent any such imagination , he saith , he had it from nebridius at carthage . but i cannot but wonder at the bringing in the nesciens unde & quomodo — and hoc uno ictu in the foregoing chapter , where he speaks expresly of the manner of his forming a conception of god as a spiritual being ; upon which , he saith , that although he could not tell whence , or how , yet he was certain that a corruptible being was more imperfect than an incorruptible ; and therefore his heart did rise against his imaginations , and with this one stroke he endeavours to expell all the flock of phantasms from his conception of god. was not this o. n. very hard put to it , to bring these passages to prove mystical divinity ? to as little purpose doth he produce that ejaculation , age domine & fac ; excita & revoca nos : accende ac rape , &c. for may not men pray for the exciting , assisting , and comforting grace of god , without supposing ecstasies and raptures and immediate revelations ? but he was yet farther of , when he brought that place to prove these extraordinary favours from god ; lux es tu permanens quam de omnibus consulebam , &c. which if he had looked on the beginning of the chapter he would have found to be an address to truth ; ubi non mecum ambulasti veritas , docens quid caveam & quid appetam , &c. and doth o. n. think that there is such a mystical union between the soul and truth , as to deprive men of the use of their reason and understanding ? but i am tired with these impertinencies ; yet we must have more of them . for because s. austin in describing the depth of his meditation concerning god and himself , doth mention , that by the eye of his mind he saw an immutable light very far above it ; and by this reflection he became as certain of what he only understood , as if he had heard it in his heart ; therefore this place serves to prove no less than the fund of the soul , and gods internal speech to the soul , and what not ? i expect next , that de's cartes his method and metaphysical meditations should be brought to justifie mystical divinity ; ●or they altogether serve as well for it . and cannot s. austin express the profound meditation which he and his mother monica had concerning the blessed state of souls in heaven , and the ardent desire they had of being there , and the ioy they found in the thoughts of it , without falling into the unintelligible canting of the mystical divines ? god forbid , that i should ever call the discourses , or desires , or joyful thoughts of the happiness of heaven , by the name of canting : that were indeed to be impious and prophane ; but what is all this to a perfect and immediate union with god in the pure fund of the spirit in this present state ? a union which supposes a cessation of reason and discourse ? no such thing was in the least thought of by s. austin , who was too great a philosopher to suppose contemplation in this life without any act of reasoning or discourse . in his book de quantitate animae , he describes the several steps of the soul , and the highest of all he places in the contemplation of god as the supream truth , and declares that he could not express the ioyes which did attend the fruition of the true and chief good. but great and ●●●nparable minds have expressed these ●●ings as far as they thought them fit to be expressed , which we believe to have seen , and still to see those things . by which it is plain he speaks of the ioys ●f another world , and not of any mystical and passive unions in this : and afterwards he speaks of the imperfection of this contemplation here , and that therefore death will be desirable , because those things will then be taken away , which now hinder the whole soul from fixing upon whole truth . in his book de moribus ecclesiae catholicae , he speaks of the egyptian hermites spending their life in contemplation , without mentioning any raptures and ecstasies they had ; and although he doth plead for their life supposing the usefulness of their prayers to others , yet he doth not dissemble that their manner of living was displeasing to some ; and afterwards saith himself , that the vertue of those who conversed with mankind , deserved greater admiration and praise , such as the bishops , priests , and deacons of the christian church . but although s. austin doth not , yet o. n. saith , that cassian doth mention the frequent raptures and ecstasies of these egyptian hermits ; but of all sorts of persons , those who lead an eremitical life , are least fit to be produced ; because all those who have written on this subject in the roman church do say , that the illusions of the devil may be so like divine raptures , that there is a necessity of a great deal of judgement and skill , to be able to put a difference between them ; and that none ought to be allowed , but such as have been approved by discreet persons ; but in the case of these hermites we may have just reason upon their own rules , to suspect them , having been never brought under a sufficient rule of tryal . if persons may be deceived themselves in judging natural distempers and satanical illusions for divine raptures and visions , then we have no reason to rely on the single testimonies of such eremitical persons , who have no witnesses of their actions . what know we what sort of persons abbot iohn and abbot isaac were in the deserts of aegypt ? we have only their single testimonies in cassian , and his single word that they said such things to him . § . . but to take off the force of these and such like instances , i shall consider the rules laid down by their own writers , concerning these things , and from thence shew , what grounds we have not to rely on the instances produced by them , concerning visions , and raptures ; and ecstasies , and revelations . . they consess that the natural force and power of imagination will in some tempers produce all the same symptoms and appearances both to themselves and others , which there are in supernatural elevations . so cardinal bona ( who very lately , and with the best judgement hath collected the rules of their writers upon this subject ) freely acknowledgeth not only that ecstasies may be caused by natural diseases ; ( of which galen gives an instance in a schoolfellow of his , and fernelius and sennertus many others ) but by the meer force of imagination : by which the animal spirits flowing in greater quantities to the brain , do thereby hinder the external operations of the senses , so that the person under it continues without sense or motion , and in that condition fancies an extraordinary presence of that object which the imagination was fixed upon . and the more intense this imagination is , the greater flux of spirits is made to the brain , and so the ecstasie continues so much the longer , especially where the spirits are more thick and melancholy , and consequently not so easily dissipated . so paulus zacchias saith , that we are not to conclude an ecstasie to be supernatural , because it ariseth from the contemplation of supernatural things ; for the imagination being fixed upon divine things , will have the same effects , that it would have upon other things . thence , saith he , such persons do really think ( as much as men do in dreams ) that they are present at that time with angels , or saints , and have conferences with them ; or that they see and enjoy god , or imagine themselves to be in hell , or in purgatory . and persons seized upon with this ecstasie will continue for a long time in the very same posture it took them without any motion ; so plato reports of socrates , that he stood a whole day without any alteration in the same posture , his mind being abstracted with pure contemplation , and at night some ionian souldiers having observed him , lay down by him , and they found that he continued without any motion till the next morning . favorinus in a. gellius saith , that socrates did this often : which cajetan imputes to the vehement intention of his mind ; but he saith aristotle layes it upon the disposition of his body ; for he thought him besides himself , saith cajetan ; possessed , saith fortunatus scacchus ; but neither the one nor the other appears by aristotle , who only saith , that all extraordinary men in any way , had a deep tincture of melancholy ; for which among the philosophers he doth instance in empedocles , socrates , and plato ; which temper , he saith , hath much in it of the nature of wine , which is more apt to heighten and inflame mens spirits , than hony , or milk , or water , it first makes men talkative , then eloquent and bold ; then it stirs them to action , then it puts them into a rage , and at last by custom makes them meer sots : all these several qualities some men have by their natural tempers : some , saith he , are much given to deep silence , as those whom melancholy makes ecstatical ; which temper although naturally cold , is capable of a greater degree of heat ; as water being once heated , is hotter than the flame it self ; and stones and iron heated become hotter than the coals : so , saith he , it is with melancholy , if it be over-heated , it fills them with joy and singing , and makes them ecstatical ; and because thus heat comes very near the seat of the mind ; it is apt to make men distracted or enthusiastical ; thence the sibylls and the bacchae and such enthusiasts became such not by a disease , but by a natural temper . and to that which is said in the life of s. teresa of one that made verses in an ecstasie , aristotle hath a very fit parallel of maracus a syracusian poet , that never made so good verses , as when he was really ecstatical : and for the great inequality of the tempers of such ecstatical persons , aristotle saith , that melancholy as it produces very odd and irregular distempers , so it is very unequal of it self , sometimes very hot , and at other times very cold ; which the mystical divines call the state of desolation : but this temper being apt again to be inflamed of a sudden , it fills them with strange pleasures , especially the imagination being fixed upon an object of love , which this temper , aristotle observes , is more particularly disposed to : but because whatever makes persons ecstatical , deprives them of the use of their reason ; therefore these mystical unions which have so much ioy and pleasure , are said to be with a suspension of all the discoursive acts of the mind . which things are not to be thought extraordinary , especially in persons not only of a melancholy temper ; but whose temper hath been heightned by the power of diseases , great severities , solemn silence and retirement : and whose imagination hath been possessed with such notions as do highly gratifie an enthusiastical disposition , viz. such as relate to a more immediate union with an infinite object of love. so that there seems to be nothing in this state of pure contemplation , of which a reasonable account cannot be given from a natural temper heightned and improved by the force of imagination . and that this may seem the less strange , i shall produce an instance of this kind , which i believe will not be denyed , to have been either effected meerly by imagination , or at least , by something under a divine power : which is lately reported by a very credible and intelligent person , and one who lives in the communion of the roman church . monsieur bernier , in his letter to monsieur chapelain dated octob. . . concerning the gentiles of indostan , gives an account of certain orders of religious among them , who make vows of chastity , poverty and obedience , living in convents under superiours , who are commonly called iauguis , i. e. united to god , who used themselves to many hardships , and were looked on as so many eremites by the people ; being accounted true saints , illuminated and perfect iauguis ; these are people that have entirely abandoned the world , and sequestered themselves into some very remote corner , or garden like eremites without ever coming to the town . if you carry them any meat , they receive it ; if they do not , 't is believed that they can live without it , and subsist by the sole favour of god in perpetual fasting , prayer , and profound meditations : for they sink themselves so deep into these raptures , that they spend many hours together in being insensible , and beholding in that time , as they give out , god himself , like a very bright and ineffable light , with an unexpressible joy and satisfaction , attended with an entire contempt and forsaking of the world . for thus much one of them that pretended he could enter into this rapture when he pleased , and had been often in it , told me ; and others that are about them affirm the thing with so much seriousness , that they seem to believe in earnest , that there is no imposture in it . which therefore bernier imputes to an illusion of imagination caused by solitude and fasting ; and this he calls the great mysterie of the cabala of the jauguis ; and adds , that their extremity of poverty , and fastings , and austerities contribute much to it ; wherein he saith , the european fryers or eremites are but novices in comparison with them . i leave mr. cressy now to consider , whether the●e mystical unions and raptures , be such priviledges of saints ? whether solitude , abstraction from worldly cares , rigorous abstinences , and such like things , which he admires the contemplative life for , be so peculiar to their church ? when we find the very same things among the gentiles of indostan . and the author of the book de sapientiâ divinâ secundum aegyptios , who seems to have been an arabian philosopher , sets down these as the words of plato ( and not as his own experience , as cardinal bona relates them ) being often in the depth of contemplation , my body being left behind , i seemed to enjoy the chief good with incredible pleasure . wherefore i stood as it were astonished , finding my self to be a part of the upper world , and to have obtained immortality , with the clearest light ; which cannot be expressed with words , nor heard by ears , nor understood by the thoughts of men : and then he describes the sadness he felt at the decay of that glorious light ; and the pleasure which returned with his former ecstasies . this cardinal bona thinks might either come by the natural force of contemplation , or the illusion of evil spirits ; but herein are all the same appearances that are pretended to in mystical unions . and to shew the power of imagination in causing ecstasies ; besides that of socrates , bona mentions the like of carneades related by valerius maximus , of plotinus by porphyrius , of iamblichus by eunapius , and the common instance of restitutus in s. austin , who fell into an ecstasie when he pleased . thomas aquinas reckons up three causes of raptures , bodily distempers , diabolical , and divine power : but cajetan saith , there is a fourth cause acknowledged elsewhere by him , viz. a vehement intention of the mind , which he therefore omitted , because he spake of causes extrinsecal to the mind it self . § . . . there can be no certainty by the rules laid down by themselves , that the ecstasies and raptures or visions and revelations of persons , do come only from divine and supernatural causes . for they grant that in all these cases there is reason to suspect ecstasies and raptures . . if the persons natural temper be very melancholy . this is the first rule in cardinal bona ; for , saith he , those who are troubled with this , may easily fix their minds so upon one object , as to suffer an alienation of their senses from any other . ioh. à iesu maria , a great mystical divine , makes this his fourth rule , to consider , whether the person have a good understanding , or be troubled with any distemper in the head , or with melancholy , or be subject to any vehement passions ; which cardinal bona likewise adds ; and therefore cardinal cajetan well notes , that the various motion of the heart , arising from some apprehension or desire , moves the body , and alters it according to different qualities ; which alteration of the body doth again affect the imagination and appetite ; from whence we may observe , that those accidents which often happen to persons under ecstasies are originally caused from their own apprehension , although afterwards , custome being turned into nature , makes them fall under them whether they will or no. which is seen by this , that if they turn their imaginations with all their force quite another way , those accidents forsake them , as , saith he , i have found by certain experience : which is a plain discovery that these things are produced by natural causes . f. baker himself puts that down among his rules , whether the persons be not addicted to melancholy ? from which rule , there is great reason to suspect those who have complained of being oppressed with a most profound melancholy , as m. teresa did : and we have reason to believe it of all those lovers of solitude , that forsake all conversation of mankind , as the aegyptian eremites did . . if their proficiency in vertue be not very great . this is the first rule laid down by fortunatus scacchus , prefect of the popes chappell , in his book of the qualifications necessary to canonization ; viz. that we examine the life and actions of the persons who pretend to ecstasies and raptures ; if they have been such as have come up to an heroical degree of perfection , it may be believed that they come from god ; but if not , they come either from a natural or diabolical cause ; especially , saith he , if they happen in women , who may seem to aim either at the fame of sanctity , or some advantage by it . great caution , saith cardinal bona , is to be used in judging the raptures of young beginners ; for the very novelty and sweetness of divine contemplation is apt to put such into ecstasies : it is like strong wine , which they cannot bear without intoxication . besides , saith he , it ought to be inquired into , whether their souls be capable of such favours , what purity and humility they have attained to , whether their lives be as much above the world , as they pretend their souls are : if not , they are no true raptures , but illusions of the devil : to the same purpose the rest speak . what must we then think of those raptures which m. teresa had , when she said , she was very backwards , and but in the beginnings of vertues and mortifications ? . if they are not able to give any good account of what they speak in their ecstasies : this cardinal bona layes down , that if when they come to themselves , they know not what they said in their ecstasies , but refer the hearers to what they spake then ; or if they speak whether they will or no , there is great reason to suspect them . for this , saith cardinal cajetan , is a condition of true inspiration , that the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets in this , that they do not speak with any disturbance of mind , as though they were acted by another , but from their own sense with a quiet mind , understanding what they speak ; therefore , saith he , they that speak in alienation of mind , or after it , do not remember what they spake in it , have no true inspirations . from whence it appears , saith he , that those who in their ecstasies speak in the person of christ , or of some saint , as though they were acted by them , are either seduced , or do seduce . and yet the foolish world is astonished , and admires , and adores these words and actions . but this rule , although as much grounded on scripture and reason , as any ; is , as far as i can find , very carefully omitted by the mystical writers , for a very good reason , which they well know . . if they have weakned themselves by very long fastings : for so cardinal bona saith , that very great weakness may bring them to fainting sits and ecstasies ; and he tells us from s. teresa , that she cured a nun of her ecstasies by making her leave her fasting , and bringing her to a good habit of body . it is great pity , the same experiment had not been tryed upon her self . some , saith bona , have made that an argument that their ecstasies were supernatural , because they continued many dayes in them without eating or drinking ; whereas many have undergone long fasts without a miracle ; and some of the indian priests have ●asted twenty dayes together ; but because in those parts the heat may take away their appetite , therefore paulus zacchias produces many instances of very long fasts in these european parts without any miracle ; besides what licetus , horstius , kornmannus and sennertus and others have related to the same purpose ; and such instances have been lately known among us in england . . if they be very frequent and ordinary and happen upon any slight occasion . for saith paulus zacchias , since divine raptures have the nature of something miraculous in them , we are not to suppose them to be very common , and as often as any one pleases ; therefore , saith he , when we see a person fall frequently into ecstasies , we may justly presume that it is something natural , since god doth not commonly work miracles . cardinal bona saith , that sales thought , the meer frequency of having divine revelations was enough to make them suspected . and for persons to fall as often as they please into ecstasies , is , saith scacchus , an evident sign of a diabolical illusion : so the maid of saragoza and magdalena crucia were discovered . and what shall we then think of the almost continual raptures of s. teresa ? what of the abbot sisoi mentioned by bona , that fell into a rapture , unless he let fall his hands at prayers ? what of br. gyles , mentioned both by bona and scacchus , that thought it so easie to fall into raptures , that if any one spake the word paradise , he fell into an ecstasie ; insomuch that the boyes of perusium , as scacchus relates it , would come behind him and cry paradise , on purpose to make him immediately fall down in a trance : must we acknowledge this to be from god ? but what shall we say to br. roger , mentioned by f. baker out of harphius , that had a hundred raptures in a mattins ? . if they appear desirous of them , and are apt to report them to others , and to have them made publick . so ioh. à iesu maria would have it observed , whether they are apt to speak of them , without being asked , or upon an easie request ; whether they pray for them , or come to prayers in hopes of them . cardinal bona would have it observed likewise , where they happen , if in publick places where they may be taken notice of ? this rule may hold as to satanical illusions ; but where they arise from meerly natural causes , persons may not at all be desirous of them , nay , may strive against them , and endeavour to keep them secret , and yet they may not be divine . these are some of the most generally approved rules among the persons of judgement and understanding in the roman church ; and if we could proceed according to these , in the examination of the instances produced of raptures and ecstasies , not one of a thousand would pass by their own rules . but when all is done , these rules are very little observed , but they are approved or condemned , according to the rules of policy , and not of divinity . but besides these , the mystical divines have some particular notes of their own , which neither themselves nor any else can understand ; as father bakers first rule ; viz. the wills being moved without the ordinary precedent action of the understanding or imagination : the fifth rule , about the efficacy of internal words , and the souls conceiving more by them , than in themselves they signifie ; and others as unintelligible as thee , viz. those delivered by m. teresa , and set down in order by ioh. à iesu maria to distinguish divine visions from the effects of imagination ; as , the not missing a syllable of internal words , the great secrecy of them , being spoken in so close a place in the soul , that the devil cannot come at them , ( to eves-drop them ) and several other such senseless things . and i do suppose no man will believe any thing to be from god , meerly because it cannot be understood by men ; for then the greatest non-sense and contradictions might pass for divine revelations . § . . and as there can be no certainty by their own rules as to raptures and ecstasies , so neither can there be as to visions and revelations . for , . they grant , that those that are of no use , are not to be allowed ; as , if the matter of revelations be vain and curious , saith iesu maria , or that which may ●e known without revelation ; now , say i , if there be no revelation at all to be expected as to matter of doctrine , all the other things are vain and curious , there being no other end suitable to divine revelation besides this . and cardinal bona makes a very ingenuous confession , that there is a great deal of danger and no profit at all in visions ; and that by them a way is opened for many deceits and illusions of the devil . can any man of common sense then believe that god should cause such extraordinary visions , which bring no profit but abundance of danger along with them ? we walk much more safely , saith he , by faith , whose light far exceeds all visions and revelations of mysteries . and no argument of sanctity , saith scacchus , can be drawn from them ; because christian perfecion doth not consist in them : and revelations do not make us either more pleasing to god , or more useful to our neighbour , and he quotes gerson with approbation , for saying , that the antient fathers did fly from the curiosity of visions and miracles , as the most deceitful and dangerous ; and that s. austin gave god thanks that he was delivered from it , and that bonaventure saith , it is to be abhorred and striven against with all our power . and scacchus himself concludes , that there is usually a secret pride and hypocrisie to be thought saints , which makes persons desire visions and revelations , which are inconsistent with true sanctity ; and if it be not pride , it is a vain curiosity , wherefore god often suffers them to be deceived . . that it is a very hard matter in this case to distinguish the illusions of the devil , from divine visions and revelations . for they do not pretend to the only certain way which the prophets and apostles made use of , viz. the working miracles to confirm the truth of their testimony : for among all the numbers of miracles they boast of , they pretend to none for the proper end of miracles , viz. to confirm divine revelation . and therefore , it is no wonder scacchus yields up this , as a very doubtful thing , considering how easie and common a thing it is for the devil to deceive men in this matter . and cardinal bona confesses , that the devil doth often assume the person of christ and of the blessed virgin , with so much art and cunning as to deceive very good men , as is evident from most certain experience , as well as the testimony of the fathers . nay , he denyes , that ever the person of christ did appear to any since s. pauls vision ; and he saith , that to assert otherwise , is against the unanimous consent of the fathers , and not agreeable to that article of our faith , wherein we believe that he sits at the right hand of the father , and shall come again to judge the quick and the d●ad . yet what abundance of visions of christs person do we meet with in the legends of saints , and of his appearance with flesh and blood in the eucharist ? but if the person of christ do never appear , it cannot be proved from any of those visions , that the very body of christ is there . . that it were far better if a stop were put to all private revelations among them that are not confirmed by miracles or testimony of scripture . this cardinal bona wishes , that the confessors among them would at last take care of ; which no man certainly would do , if he believed them to be from god. cardinal cajetan saith , that we can have no certainty of private revelations , although the persons who pretend to them , should not only protest but swear to it , that they have them from god : and in general concludes , that we are not bound to believe them . from which it necessarily follows , that there are no certain rules to know when they are from god ; for if there were , an obligation to believe them would lye upon those who had tryed them by those rules . . if revelations made to two several persons do contradict each other , that there is great reason to suspect both . for although , saith cardinal bona , it be possible that one may be true and the other false , and the devil may endeavour to take away the authority of the true by the false , yet for the most part they are both suspected and doubtful . and before he saith , that it is reasonable to believe those women saints were deceived , in supposing their own fancies to be divine revelations , who have published revelations contradicting each other . which it is plain he intended for the famous case of the revelations of s. brigitt and s. katharin , which contradicted each other expresly about the immaculate conception ; and which i had produced as a plain instance of a false pretence to inspiration in the roman church , it being impossible god should contradict himself . mr. cressy in answer to this , first confesses that the publick office of their church testifies that each of them were favoured with divine revelations , and then produces the testimony of s. antonin , that those things may be supposed by the persons themselves to be divine revelations , which are but humane dreams . thirdly , he cites cardinal baronius , who seems to reject the revelations on both sides . and yet he by no means will allow the honour of their church to be concerned herein , which hath approved them both as persons truly inspired ; when mr. cressy confesses , they did not testifie their revelations by miracles , and that without it divine revelation cannot be known . i would not desire a greater advantage from an adversary , than mr. cressy here gives me against himself . for by his own confession then , their church approves those to have had divine revelations which never gave the proper evidence of it , viz. miracles , and such whose revelations are questioned by the wisest men among them . and what is all this but to give countenance , ( for all that the church can know ) to a meer pretence to inspiration ? which is the highest fanaticism in the world. and if as he saith , notwithstanding the councils approbation , there is scarce a catholick alive that thinks he hath an obligation to believe either of them ; this makes as much to my purpose as i desire ; for if they have no obligation to believe them , they may without sin believe them not to be divine revelations ; and since they are given out to be such and approved by their church , all such persons may without sin charge them with the highest fanaticism in a false pretence to divine revelation . and why then should i be so much blamed for doing that , which persons in their own church may do without sin ? but i see mr. cressy is not acquainted with the common doctrine of their own divines about the obligation that lyes upon persons to believe private revelations ; for they agree , . that those persons to whom those revelations are made are bound to believe them before any approbation of the church ? for say they , the primary reason of assenting to a divine revelation is from the divine veracity ; to which it is wholly accidental whether it be publick or private , and the churches proposition is only the common external condition of applying the object of faith to us ; but there may be as great an obligation to believe a private revelation , supposing only sufficient motives to the mind of the person that this revelation comes from god. this is the opinion of vega , catharinus , suarez , lugo , ysambertus , and as they tell us , of most of their modern divines . indeed they mention cajetan , sotus , canus and some others as of another opinion ; but suarez saith , they seem to differ only in words , because they will not have that assent called catholick faith ; which the other are willing to yield to them , and call it theological faith , but do make it as certain and infallible as the other . which they prove , not only from the obligation to faith in the private revelations mentioned in scripture , but from invincible reason , because the ground of the assent of faith is not the publickness of the revelation , but the divine authority and veracity ; which being supposed , must equally oblige , whether the revelation be private or publick . and if there be sufficient motives to believe a private revelation ; to deny an obligation to believe it , is a contempt of divine authority ; and to suppose there cannot be sufficient motives , is to say , that god cannot do as much by himself , as he can by the church . the force of which reason i do not see how it is possible for those to avoid who assert , that god doth still communicate private revelations to mens minds . . that supposing these revelations to be proposed by the church , all others are bound to believe them to be divine revelations . for then they have the same reason , which they have to believe any revelation . all the difficulty now is , to understand what a sufficient proposal by the church in this case is ; suarez saith , that although private revelations be chiefly intended for the persons to whom they are made , yet a sufficient proposal of them being made to others , there doth arise from thence an obligation to believe them . for which saith he , the general rule is the approbation of the church ; as appears by the lateran council under leo . which forbad the preaching private revelations without the examination and approbation of the church ; and then saith suarez , the believing them becomes a part of catholick faith. now i desire to know , how it is possible for their church to shew greater care in the examination and approbation of any private revevelations , than it did in those of s. brigitt ? they being frequently examined by the publick authority of their church , and after such examination declared by the pope to have come from the spirit of god ; and at last approved , say their own writers , at the general council of basil. how could they possibly express greater approbation of any controverted book in the bible ? but if after all this , these revelations may pass among them for dreams and fancies , and no men are obliged to believe them , let them clear their church from fanaticism , if they can . for either those revelations were from god or not ? if not , then they were fanatical illusions approved by their church ; if they were , then since they were approved by those whom they are bound to believe , with what face can mr. cressy say , that there is scarce a catholick alive that thinks he has an obligation to believe them ? which i do the more wonder at , since they believe things as absurd already , and with as little reason as any thing in s. brigitts revelations . and therefore the person of honour had great reason to say , that mr. cressy hath in truth not answered the weight of my instance from the revelations of s. brigitt and s. catharine . . they confess that some persons are very lyable to be deceived in believing themselves to have divine revelations . such , saith card. bona , are those that have a bad habit of body , that have a restless and vehement imagination , that have a great deal of melancholy , which is apt to corrupt the imagination , so as they are apt to fancy that they see and hear things which they neither see , nor hear . and likewise , saith he , from long fasting and immoderate watchings , vain phantasms may arise in the brain , by which the mind being deceived , adheres to them as to divine revelations . and what are these else but the fanatick heats of enthusiasm ? besides , he saith , that regard ought to be had to the humour , disposition , condition , conversation , and age of the persons ; for old men are apt to doat , and young men to be hot and credulous ; but especially great caution must be used towards women , whose sex is the more to be suspected because of its weakness ; for by reason of the vehemency of their thoughts and affections they think they see that which they desire , and that which arises from their own violent passions , they believe to be true ; and it is an easie matter for the devil , ( and no great conquest he thinks ) through their want of reason and iudgement to deceive them . therefore he saith peremptorily , that the bishops and guides of souls should oppose and despise their revelations and severely rebuke th●m , for pretending to things too high for them : and he at large discovers , the great mischiefs which have come to the church by w●●nens pretending to revelations . i confess after all these severe things , he doth at last approve the revelations of s. teresa , which i very much question whether he would have done or no , if he had been her confessour ; but now she was canonized for a saint , and it would not have been so agreeable for a roman cardinal to have exposed to the world the self-delusions of a roman saint . but i desire no more in her instance , or any other among them than to compare the circumstances of them with these rules laid down by their own most approved authors . from which it appears that although mr. cressy declares that , they are very well content with their fanaticks and fanaticism , yet there are some wise men among them , which are not . § . . having thus far shewn , that this way of mystical divinity with all its raptures and ecstasies and passive unions , had no foundation in the christian doctrine , nor in the consent of the christian church of the purest ages , i now come to shew whence it came into any vogue and reputation among christians . it is an easie matter to discover that the foundation of it was laid by the counterfeit dionysius areopagita , to whom mr. cressy and o. n. do referr me . who , saith mr. cressy , whatever his true name was , was questionless an author of the second or at least the third age of the church , and who describes the most sublime and most purely divine prayer exercised by hierotheus a disciple of the apostles . but if he lived in the second or third age , he must be a counterfeit , ( for dionysius dyed within the compass of the first century , as sirmondus hath fully proved ) and if he were a counterfeit , how came he to know the divine prayer of hierotheus ? however i do acknowledge that this author , whoever he was , was justly pitched upon by mr. cr. for it is from him , they not only borrow the mystical notions , but most of the phrases too : and assoon as those books , written by him , came to be known and admired in the eastern and western churches , there were some so fond of this mystical divinity , as to cry it up as the most perfect way of devotion , being especially accommodated to persons of an enthusiastical temper ; who were withall confined to solitude and retirement from the world. it will not be amiss therefore to give a taste of his mystical divinity , as far as it is possible to bring his affected bombast within the compass of our language . thus he begins , o thou superessential trinity , above all notion of deity and goodness ; o thou governour of the divine wisdom of christians , direct us to the most unknown , most clear , and most supream height of mystical oracles ; in which the simple , absolute , and unchangeable mysteries of divinity are hidden , by the over-shining darkness of a teaching silence , discovering the most glorious light in the most profound obscurity , and over-filling the blindest minds with the most beautiful beams , in that which can neither be felt nor seen . let this prayer be for my self : but thou o friend timothy by thy diligent exercise in these mystical speculations , leave thy senses and the operations of thy mind , and all things sensible and intelligible , and all things which are not and which are ; and after an unknown manner elevate thy self to that union which is above all essence and knowledge : and when by a pure and perfect abstraction of thy self , thou shalt be free and loose from all things , thou shalt be raised to the superessential ray of divine darkness . then after he hath given caution to timothy , that these divine mysteries be not communicated to those that would make use of their knowledge in these things , any more , than to those , who followed their imaginations ; because the superessential being dwelleth in darkness ; and as to him , affirmations and negations are not opposite , being above all ; he shews , that the cause of all things is above all reason and understanding , and is only truly and plainly made known to those who ascend above all sensible and intellectual things , and above all divine lights , and heavenly sounds and words , and are swallowed up of darkness : which he expresseth , by the allegory of moses going into the cloud upon the top of the mount : then , saith he , this mystical moses is carryed up above all visible and intellectual heights , being taken into the truly mystical cloud of unknowing , in which he puts a stop to all knowing perceptions , and is in that which can neither be seen nor felt , being altogether his who is above all , and not of any one else , neither of himself nor any other ; and being under a cessation of all knowledge is in a firmer union to that which cannot be known ; and because he understands nothing , he understands more than his mind can reach to . this is certainly the very height of mystical union and the perfection of the contemplative state : in the description of which , i have kept as near as i could to his words , and as to the sense have followed carolus hersentius , a late mystical divine , who hath taken the greatest care and pains to explain the meaning of this obscure author upon this argument . to the same purpose he speaks elsewhere , where he saith , that the most divine way of knowing god is by not knowing him , by an union above understanding ; when the mind being abstracted from all things and going out of it self is united to those overbright beams , by which he is enlightned in the unsearchable depth of wisdom . any one that ●asts an eye upon this kind of discourse , will easily find it to proceed upon very different g●ounds , in order to the per●ection of mens minds , from what are delivered in the christian religion . for there it is said to be eternal life , to know god and his son iesus christ ; here we are told that we cannot come at perfection in the way of knowledge , but of ignorance and not knowing : there it is said , that god is light and in him is no darkness at all ; here that he is the most profound darkness and obscurity . here we meet with no difference at all as to the clearness of our apprehensions concerning the divine nature , from what men had before the christian doctrine ; whereas it is one of the excellencies of christianity that by it we come to know the true god much better than mankind had done before , and are able to form a very true and distinct conception of him in our minds , as of a being of infinite wisdom and goodness and power . although we cannot attain to a full comprehension of the utmost extent of the perfections of the divine nature ; yet that doth not hinder our conceptions from being clear and true , though not adequate and perfect . and if we could have no clearer knowledge and more steady conceptions of the divine nature by the doctrine of christ , to what end are we told by it , that no man hath seen god at any time , the only begotten son which is in the bosome of the father he hath revealed him ; that now the vail of darkness is taken away , and we all with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the lord , are changed into the same image ; not that our transformation is to come by darkness and the cessation of intellectual operations , as this mystical union implyes . but besides , this mystical way pretends to carry men above all external rev●●ation as well as intellectual knowledge , for so much is implyed in the raising the mind above all divine lights , and heavenly sounds and words , i. e. saith hersentius , above all the manifestations of god what soever which are made to the mind . which mystical way of perfection , being supposed possible , i see no necessity at all of christs coming into the world , nor of any influence his death or sufferings or doctrine could have upon the bringing men to a state of happiness . for the whole hypothesis proceeds only upon these principles . . the obscurity of the divine nature , and the impossibility of our attaining so clear a perception of god in our minds , as for us ever to hope for a state of perfection with the exercise of our reason and understanding . . that the only possible way of attaining it , is by the abstraction of our selves from all sensible and intellectual operations , and thereby bringing our souls to an immediate union with the divine essence . § . . having thus endeavoured to bring these things out of the clouds of the sublime nonsense and seeming contradictions which they were wrapt up in , we may more easily discern from whence all these notions were taken and slyly conveyed into the christian doctrine as the highest way of perfection . for which we are to consider , that the christian religion growing very considerable , notwithstanding all the endeavours used by the roman emperours and governours of provinces to suppress it , and very learned men having taken upon them the profession of it in several parts of the empire , but especially at alexandria ; the heathen philosophers saw there was an absolute necessity of making the best they could of the pagan theology . to this end they bestirred themselves to gather together the most considerable parts of the chaldaick , aegyptian , and platonick theology , and putting them together to form such a method for the perfection of mens souls , as would appear more sublime , than the christian institution . for this end plotinus , porphyrie , iamblichus , proclus and the rest of them , did imploy the utmost of their study and care : for they saw now it was to no purpose for them to spend their time in idle curiosities , and the vain disputes of the several sects of philosophers ; therefore they endeavour to lay aside these , ( ammonius of alexandria having shewed them the way ) and to bend their studies chiefly about shewing men such a way of purifying their souls as might bring them to a state of perfection , without embracing christianity . for they saw , that the common people were become philosophers by the help of the christian religion , and out-went them in the bearing torments and all sorts of miseries , only in expectation of that blessed state which the christian religion did give men so great assurance of , and gave such excellent directions , by the practice of all divine vertues , for mens attaining to it . we know there was no greater enemy in the world to the christian religion than porphyrius was , against whom eus●bius , methodius and many others writ in defence of christianity . yet it appears by what we have remaining of his writings , that he had a very mean esteem of the common customes of sacrificing , and of those daemons which were pleased with the smoke of flesh ; and he looked upon the theurgick way , as lyable to deceit and not capable of advancing the soul to highest perfection . which th●urgick way , lay in the initiating of men in some sacred mysteries , by partaking of certain rites and symbols , by which they were admitted to the presence of some of their deities ; the end whereof , as they pretended , was , reducing the souls of men to that state they were in before they came into the body : so s. augustin tel●s us from porphyrie , that they who were purified after this manner did converse with glorious appearances of angels which they were fitted to see ; but porphyrie himself , as he did not utterly reject this lower and symbolical way ; so he said , that the highest perfection of the soul was not attainable by it ; but it was useful for purifying the lower part of the soul but not the intellectual . by the lower part he understood the irrational , which by the theurgical rites might be fitted for conversation with angels ; but the intellectual part could not be elevated by it to the contemplation of god , and the vision of the things that are true : and herein he placed the utmost perfection of the soul in its return to and union with god in this upper part or fund of the soul ; for the utmost the other attained to , was only to live among the aetherial spirits , but the contemplative souls returned to the father , as he speaks ; which as many other of his notions , he borrowed from the chaldaick theology . to shew , what this intellectual or contemplative life was , that should bring mens souls to this state of perfection , porphyrie writ a book on purpose , of the return of the soul , as s. austin tells us , who quotes many passages out of it : and this particular precept above all the rest , that the soul must fly from all body if it would live happy with god ; which is all one with abstraction of mind and pure contemplative life . in that book he complains that there was no perfect way yet known to the world for this end , not the indian , chaldaick or any other . but what that was , which he meant , appears , by what he saith near the end of the life of plotinus , where he hath these words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the scope and end of his life was union and conjunction with god over all : and four times , saith he , when i was with him he attained to thus union , by an unexpressible act of the mind : which he before sets forth , by a divine illumination without any image or idea , being above the understanding and all intelligible things . and he saith of himself , that he was once in this state of union , when he was . years of age : which holstenius understands of an ecstasie he then fell into ; and imputes it to the depth of his melancholy joyned with his abstracted and severe life , his frequent watchings and almost continual exercise of contemplation . for all these things were remarkable in him ; and eunapius saith of him , that he was so little a lover of the body , that he hated his being a man , and being in sicily , he was almost famished by abstinence , and shunned all conversation with mankind : as he begins the life of plotinus , that he was like one ashamed that his soul was in a body . so that we find the foundation here laid not only for the mystical union , but the abstraction of mind necessary in order to it : and that it doth not lye in any intellectual operations , but rather in a cessation of these acts , is likewise expresly affirmed by porphyrie . many things , saith he , are said of understanding things that are above the mind ; but the contemplation of those things is better performed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 otio & vacatione intellect●s ▪ as holstenius renders it , rather by the rest and cessation of operation in the understanding than by the exercise of it ; as many things , while a man wakes , are said of him that he does when he sleeps , but the knowledge and perception of them is by sleep ; for things are best understood by assimilation . and elsewhere he saith , that our manner of understanding all things is different according to their essence ; those things that are above the mind are to be known 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the way of unknowing , and after a superessential manner , where we see the very phrases of dionysius used by him ; and in many places he speaks of the minds abstracting and loosing it self from the body , and drawing it self nearer to the first being ; of the souls being in god ; of the pure and clear light which follows the abstraction of the mind ; of the state and life of contemplation , and the vertues necessary thereto , such as abstinence from the actions of the body and from affections to it , which , saith he , raise the mind to the superessential being ; and he very much disparages the active and political life in comparison with this , the end of one being only mens living according to nature ; but of the other assimilation to god ; he that lives according to practical vertues , is only a good man ; but he that lives the life of contemplation is a god ; from whence we understand the deiformity of the mystical divines being attainable by the life of contemplation . the way laid down by him for purifying the soul is this . . the foundation of it , is , for the soul to know it self , i. e. to consider , that it is in a strange place and bound to a thing of another substance . . recollection , or gathering it self up from the body to be free from the affections of it ; in order to which he adviseth to deny the body in its appetites and pleasures ; and to shew as little care of it and concernment for it as may be ; by degrees to lessen all sense both of pleasure , and pain ; and so to come at last to a freedom from the passions of the body . then he describes the superessential being , and saith , that it is neither great nor little , but above both ; and is neither greatest nor least but above all ; and that his presence is not topical , but assimilative ; and that the only way for our souls to recover themselves is to bring them into themselves , by which means the true being ●s present with them , and we become united to god. which union of the soul with god , holstenius thinks it very probable , that porphyrie understood by the book which he mentions in the life of plotinus , called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the sacred nuptials , because both plotinus and he supposed this union to be wrought by the power of divine ; love , as well as the mystical divines ; and porphyrie saith , upon the reading of it , some thought him mad , because there were several things spoken in it after a mystical and enthusiastical manner ; for which he was highly applauded by plotinus . and porphyrie was so much in his favour , that he committed the ordering and publishing of his books entirely to his care ; which no doubt he was the more willing to do , because by delivering these mystical notions in such a philosophical manner , he might hope to put a stop to the spreading of christianity , especially among men of contemplative minds . for it appears by s. augustin that porphyrie despised christianity chiefly on the account of the incarnation of the son of god : which they thought to be bringing god down to the body , whereas their design was to elevate the soul from the body to god. § . . the short account of plotinus his hypothesis is this , that the soul of man being immersed in the body suffers very much by reason of its union with it , by which means it is drawn down to the affections of the body , and to a conversation with sensible things , and so becomes evil and miserable : that its good and happy condition lyes in being like to god , not in regard of understanding , but a state of quiescency ; that the practice of the vertues of the active life is insufficient for assimilation to god ; but in order to it , those which are properly intellectual are most necessary , whereby the soul draws it self off from the body . thus for the soul to act by it self , is wisdom ; introversion is temperance ; abstraction from matter , is fortitude ; to follow reason , is justice : that , by the practice of these , the soul purifies it self , i. e. casts off the things without it self , and so recovers its purity , by bringing those things into light again , which lay ●id under the rubbish of sensible things before , so that the soul did not know them to be there ; but for the discovery of them , it was necessary for the soul to come near a greater light than it self : and to bring the images which are in it to the true originals . the way of purifying the soul he calls by the names of abstraction and recollection : which he elsewhere expresses , by awakening the soul out of sleep , wherein it was disturbed by sensible images ; not as though the soul had need of any other way of purifying but only restoring it to it self by taking away that load of matter which oppressed it , and then it naturally endeavours after the nearest union with the first being : which he calls the true being , and the superessential being . and , he saith , when the soul endeavours after this union , it must lay aside all sensible and intellectual images of things , and make use only of the purest and supream part of the mind ( or the fund of the spirit ) that god then is not to be considered under the notion of being , but as something above being ; and that we are not either to affirm or deny any thing of him ; that , our contemplation of him is not by knowledge or any intellectual operation , but by a divine presence , which far exceeds any knowledge : for knowledge he saith , hinders union : therefore we must go beyond knowledge , and be abstracted from all other objects ; and be united to him only by the power of divine love , from whence follows a clearer light in the soul ; and in this state , saith he , there is not only a cessation of passion , but of reason and understanding too ; neither is the person , himself , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , like one in a rapture or an ecstasie he enjoys god in that state of quiescency as in a silent wilderness : which he calls , being in god ; and in other places , seeing god in themselves , being the same with god , being one with god , and which is the highest of all , being god : which is the perfect state of deiformity . by this we see there is not one of the sublimest notions of mystical divinity , which hath not been borrowed from these philosophers , who were the most dangerous enemies to christianity . for although plotinus doth not speak so openly against it , as porphyrie did , who was his beloved disciple and confident ; yet he lets fall many insinuations against it , and particularly against the doctrine of the resurrection of the body upon the account of this mystical doctrine ; for , saith he , the true awakening of the soul , is an awakening from the body , and not a resurrection with the body ; for that change which is together with the body , is but passing from sleep to sleep , as it were from one bed to another ; but the true awakening is from all bodies , which are contrary to the soul ; because the nature of one is opposite to the other . § . . after these succeeded iamblichus , who was porphyries disciple , and a great friend of iulian the apostate , and pursued the same mystical notions ; for in his book of the aegyptian mysteries ( which he writ in answer to an epistle of porphyries to an aegyptian priest , and wherein proclus saith , that he writ like a man inspired ) he discourses at large concerning divine ecstasies , and visions and inspirations , in which he describes the persons just after the mystical way , as no longer leading a humane life , or having any operations of their senses or understanding , but their mind and soul is only in the divine power and not their own ; being acted and possessed wholly by it : afterwards , he sets down several degrees and kinds of these , in some they have only participation , in others near communion , and in the highest of all , union ; in some of these , he saith , the body wholly rests , and sometimes breaks out into singing and all expressions of ioy : sometimes the body is raised up from the ground , ( as m. teresa thought hers ) sometimes it swells into a greater bulk and sometimes the contrary : then he layes down rules to know divine inspirations by , viz. by enquiring in what manner god appears , whether an appearance of fire come before him , whether ●e fills up and acts the whole soul , so that there is a cessation of all its own acts ? for this he makes the main character of a divine inspiration , that the persons are wholly taken up and possessed by the deity , from whence follows an ecstasie and alienation of the senses ; but if either the soul acts , or the body moves , then , he saith , it may be a false inspiration . no man can express himself more emphatically concerning the excellency of c●ntemplative prayer than iamblichus doth : this quickens the mind , enlargeth its capacity , opens the secrets of the divinity , and fits it for conjunction and union with god ; and never leaves men till it hath carryed them to a state of perfection ; and by degrees doth so alter and change men , that it makes them put off humane nature , and bring them into such a state of deiformity that they become gods. the first degree of prayer , he saith , brings to a state of recollection and hath some divine contact which helps our knowledge ; the second carries the soul to a nearer communion with god , and excites the divine bounty to freer communications to it : but the third is the seal of the ineffable union which makes our mind and soul to rest in god as a divine port or haven . and he concludes his book with saying , that this union with god , is mans greatest perfection and the end of all religion among the aegyptians , whose mysteries his design was to explain and vindicate . many other pasiages might be produced out of him , concerning the knowing god by divine conta ● , and the insufficiency of any act of the mind for this ineffable union ; but the●e are enough to shew how well acquainted iamblichus , and ( if we believe him ) the egyptian idolaters , were , with the profoundest secrets of mystical divinity . suidas tells us , that after porphyrie there was no one appear'd a more bitter enemy to christianity than proclus , yet no one a greater friend to mystical divinity than he . of whom marinus gives this character , towards the conclusion of his life , that his soul was so recollected and drawn into it self , that it seemed to be separated from the body while it remained in it . in the beginning of his th●●logy , he distinguishes between that intellectual faculty in us whereby we are capable of understanding the nature and difference of intelligible ideas , and that which he calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the summity , as the mysticks speak , and pure fund of the spirit , which he saith , is alone capable of the divine and mystical union , so he calls it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for , saith he , though there be many intellectual powers in us , yet it is by this only that we can be united to the divinity , and be made pa●t●kers of it . for we cannot reach the 〈◊〉 being either by our senses , or by opinion , or by apprehension ; no nor yet by ratiocination , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it remains therefore that if the divine nature can any ways be known by us , it must be by the essence of the soul. for the soul being drawn into its own unity , and removing from it self the multiplicity of its powers , it ascends to the greatest height of true contemplation . while the soul looks about on things below it , it sees nothing but shadows and images of things , when it comes to a state of introversion , then it sees its own essence and operations of the understanding ; but when it searches deeper , then it finds the mind within it self and the several orders of real beings ; when it goes yet farther into the most secret closet of the soul , there it contemplates , as it were blindfold , the divine beings , and the first ideas or unities of beings . and this , saith he , is the most excellent operation of the soul , in the rest or quie scency of its powers , to stretch it self towards the divine nature , and dance as it were round it , and to raise up the whole soul towards this union with it ; and abstracting it self from all inferiour beings , to rest upon and be conjoyned with that ineffable and superessential being . and by this means the soul comes to have the truest understanding of all things . § . . many other passages might be produced out of him to the same purpose ; but this comprehends in it so much of the very marrow of mystical divinity , that carolus hersentius confesseth , either that proclus borrowed from dionysius , or dionysius from proclus ; but he is willing to believe that proclus and the rest of the modern platonists did borrow those notions out of dionysius . marsilius ficinus indeed is of the same opinion ; for being a skilful platonist , he saw such an agreement of notions and expressions in dionysius and the writings of plotinus , iamblichus and proclus , that either they must have taken from him , or he from them ; but for the honour of the platonick notions , he believed the former . and s●ides , an author of no great judgement saith , that some of the philosophers and especially proclus made use of his very expressions without any alteration , from whence it might be suspected that the elder philosophers at athens , had hidden his works that they might seem to be the authors of those sublime notions contained in them . a very likely story ! why should proclus take those things out of dionysius , which he might have found as well in the books of plotinus , porphyrie , or iamblichus , whom he had a far greater esteem of , than of dionysius ; and quotes every one of them very frequently and with great veneration , and mentions them together as a sort of inspired persons , in the very beginning of his theology ? and proclus hath nothing peculiar in him upon this subject ; the very same notions were delivered by plotinus an egyptian philosopher ; and proclus quotes him for the chief of them : viz. the two fold operations of the mind , the one of it as the mind , viz. ratiocination ; the other of it as drunk with the divine nectar ( thence comes the mysticks ebrietas spiritualis , of which rusbrochius hath several chapters , and which saith harphius makes some sing and others cry , and others utter strange noises , as fr. masseus that cryed v. v. v. and others tremble and quake , and others run over mountains and valleys like fr. bernard , and others dance , and lastly others ready to burst , like a vessel filled with new wine ) and that the mind becomes deified by its union with god , which being the fundamental principles of mystical divinity , proclus doth acknowledge that he had them from plotinus ; and if we believe iamblichus , they came from the ancient mystical theology of the egyptians and chaldeans . i expect that those who have not considered these things should be still ready to believe , that all these notions among these philosophers were taken from some of the christians at least , if not from this dionysius . which plotinus his education under ammonius at alexandria , seems to make probable , where he continued . years ; but whatever doctrine he heard from ammonius , it is certain plotinus his opinion as to these matters , together with his followers , was derived from other oracles than those of the sacred scriptures : for psellus in his commentary on the chaldaick oracles , doth say , that plotinus , iamblichus , porphyrius and proclus did wholly approve of the chaldaick theology ; and by what remainders there are still extant of it , we may discover the footsteps of these mystical notions in it . if the chaldaick oracles were still extant , which were frequently quoted by these philosophers , ( and from them in a great measure the fragments were preserved ) we might more fully manifest these things ; yet as they are , they give us sufficient ground to draw the fundamentals of this mystical divinity from thence . for they speak of gods being united to the soul , by the souls clasping god to her self ; and that not by any act of the understanding , but by the slower of the mind , ( the very phrase used by proclus , and the same which the mysticks call the fund of the spirit , ) of the souls being inebriated from god , ( which plotinus calls , being drunk with the divine nectar , ) and psellus explains of divine illuminations and ecstasies : of abstraction from the body , and extending the mind upwards , and hastening to the divine light and the beams of the father ; with several other passages to the same purpose . but lest any should say , that these chaldaick oracles were framed by some christians at first in greek , ( as it is supposed the sibylline were ) ioh. picus mirandula saith , he had an entire copy of them in the chaldee language , with a chaldee paraphrase upon them , which he valued as a great treasure . but in truth all these notions both among the chaldeans and the platonick philosophers are built upon a very ancient hypothesis , but very different from that of christianity ; which hypothesis being granted , this mystical divinity appears with some face of reason , and colour of probability ; which i suppose will not be consented to by mr. cr. or any of the friends to mystical divinity : which was this , that the souls of men did exist in another world long before they came into the body ; that in their descent to the body they had an aethereal vehicle joyned to them ; which upon the conjunction of the soul and body became the means of communication between them , and takes up its chief seat in the brain , which is the same which we call the imagination ; that the soul being in this state is apt to be much inveigled with kindness to the body , and so forget its return home ; that the body is capable of doing the soul mischief no other way , being it self under the power of fate , than as it draws it downwards ; that the mind being the upper part of the soul is alwayes acting , but we know not its operations but only by the impressions they make upon the phansie ; that the mind hath the true ideas of things within it self ; but we are deceived by the representations conveyed by our imagination ; and therefore our ratiocination is very short and uncertain ; that our only way of recovering our souls , is by drawing them off from the body , and retiring into themselves ; and that upon this , the mind hath the divine being so nearly conjoyned to it , that it passeth into a divine nature , and recovers its former state , when it parts from the body . but because it is not to return alone without the aethereal vehicle i● brought with it , therefore the chaldeans & egyptians had several sacred and symbolical rites for the purifying of the vchicle , as they called it ; which they made necessary for this end : and with them iamblichus joyns , but porphyrie thought them not necessary , but that philosophy and meer contemplation would purifie enough without it . this is the true account of their hypothesis , as may be fully seen in hierocles and synesius , without going farther ; and was the first foundation of mystical divinity ; which i will not deny to be well enough accommodated to it ; but it is as remote from christianity , as the hypothesis it self is . but the counterfeit dionysius finding the notions sublime , and having found out expressions , as he thought lofty enough to express them ; and either being not wholly brought off from the philosophy then in request , or hoping by this means to ensnare the philosophers , when they found their sentiments entertained among the christians , makes it his business to patch together the sublimest notions of the modern platonists , and to make them pass for good christian doctrine . and i think it may be made appear that there is not one notion thought peculiar to this counterfeit dionysius which we cannot trace the footsteps of in these writers ; which few of the christians ever looked into , because of their known opposition to christianity , and therefore he had no more to do than only to fit them to the christian doctrine , and they might easily pass for new and sublime discoveries of his own . not only the principles of mystical theology , but the very nine orders of his celestial hierarchy are to be seen in iamblichus , and are reckoned up by scutellius in the margin of his translation : and archangels are not only mentioned frequently by him , but porclus upon the timaeus saith that prophyrie reckons them among the celestial orders ; which being denyed by iamblichus to have been ever mentioned by plato , and yet reckoned up by himself , may be supposed to be drawn either from the chaldean or egyptian theology ; but that is not my business to search into . his book of the divine names , seems to have had its foundation as well as title in a book written by porphyrie with the same title , as suidas himself confesses , who reckons that as the first of his books : but that being lost , we have only that reason for our conjecture , because we find him so apparently guilty in his mystical theology ; to which he hath added nothing but a more affected style , and profound non-sense : for it is not enough for him , to joyn light and darkness together ; but that darkness must be overshining , and the rays of it must be superessential ; he is not content , to express nothing almost without metaphors , but stretches them to hyperbole's , and when he hath by this means set two things as far from each other as may be , then he claps them together , as if one should say , the most glorious sunshine of egyptian darkness . § . . but if this dionysius were the person he pretends to be , viz. the areopagite , then we might have some reason to think that the platonick philosophers had taken their notions out of him ; and yet it would be very improbable that such a writer should have been so well known among the platonists , that was utterly unknown among the christians . did dionysius leave his works to the philosophers at athens , or to the christians ? if they were only among the philosophers , how came they out of their hands at last ? if they had borrowed so much out of them , they would have done as they report aristotle did with his creditors ( i mean the ancient philosophers ) viz. suppressed them , when they had gotten as much from them as they could ? and it were an easie matter to have done it , since they were writings never mentioned in those first ages by christians . so bellarmin himself grants , ( after the consisideration of all the testimonies produced by baronius and many others ) that these books were not known in the five first centuries . which argument together with other circumstances have made some of the most learned persons of the roman church that have been of late , to reject this author as supposititious ; for notwithstanding all the pleas that have been made for him by baronius , del-rio , halloix , lessius , de chaumont , lansselius and others ; his authority is very much suspected by petavius , sirmondus , and labbe , all iesuits ; but rejected by launoy , godeau , habertus , and morinus , who proves at large that these books . were never produced till the conference with hypatius a. d. . and then they were brought forth by the severian hereticks , and rejected by hypatius , because no testimony was brought out of them , by former eccle● siastical writers , when there was sufficient occasion if they had been then extant . and in truth , it seems most probable , that they came out of the school of apollinaris , and so might well be produced first by the severians ; for it is not only observed by petavius , that the heresie of apollinaris came out of the platonick school ; but ( if i be not much mistaken ) from that very notion of plotinus of the difference of the mind and soul ( for as appears by epiphanius , apollinaris granted , that christ had the soul but not the mind of man , and nemesius expresly charges apollinaris with following the doctrine of plotinus ) by which it is plain that apollinaris was sufficiently conversant in these writings to borrow his notions from thence , and he was more than ordinarily remarkable for his conversation with philosophers ; but besides this we find his school particularly charged with this way of forging ecclesiastical writers , as some pieces of athanasius and greg. thaumaturgus , and an epistle of pope iulius and others . to which , another circumstance may be added , which shews the greater probability of it , viz. that among the disciples of apollinaris , there were both a dionysius and timotheus ; a dionysius to whom the counterfeit epistle of iulius was directed ; and a timotheus mentioned together with apollinaris as his disciple by damasus , by gennadius , and by s. augustin , and others , so that if apollinaris himself were not the author of them , yet his disciple dionysius might write them to his fellow-disciple timotheus ; and the names hitting so luckily , they might the easier pass under the more venerable names of the ancient dionysius and timothy . but this i only propose as a conjecture , it being sufficient to my purpose to have given such plain evidence , that the fundamentals of mystical theology , were first taken out of those philosophers who were the greatest enemies to christianity , and who seemed to set up this , in opposition to it , as a more sublime way to perfection . it were an easie matter after this , to shew how this mystical divinity by the authority of these c●unterfeit writings came into reputation , in the western church , after the translation of them by iohannes erigena and anastasius ; what authority it gained among some of the schoolmen by its agreeableness with the doctrine of some arabian philosophers about the intellectus agens ; and other principles of enthusiasm among them ; how it came into germany among the monks there , and what pretences to visions and revelations came in upon it ; what favour it hath received from the ies●itical order , ( maximilian sandaeus having published a discourse on purpose to prove that from the very foundation of their order , the iesuits have been the greatest admirers of and pretenders to mystical divinity , ) but i must stop ; lest mr. cressy should tell me , that i take another opportunity to empty my voluminous store of collections ; whereas all the pains i have taken in this matter hath been to give him full satisfaction that i have read and considered what the author of the roman churches devotions vindicated , hath said upon this argument , which he so humbly beseeches the person of honour to peruse , hoping by that means he would come to a better opinion of sancta sophia , and mystical divinity , and mr. cressy : and i dare leave any person of honour and understanding , to judge , whether notwithstanding what he hath said for it mr. cr. had reason to account , this mystical divinity , the perfection of christian prayer and devotion . chap. iii. of the monastick orders , in the roman church , and particularly of the benedictin . § . . the second thing to which the charge of fanaticis●n relates , is the foundation of their religious orders in the roman church , which i said were first instituted among them by enthusiastick persons , upon the credit of their visions and revelations . for which i instanced , in all their most celebrated orders , viz. the benedictins , carthusians , dominicans , franciscans and iesuits ; and gave a particular account of this , from the authentick histories among themselves of the several founders of them : and besides , i produced the testimony of bellarmin , that their religious orders were instituted by the inspiration of the holy ghost . in answer to this , mr. cressy ( declining the dispute , about the personal qualities of the founders of religious orders ; ) saith , the most commodious way to make a true judgement of them will be to examin their fruits . for by their fruits , saith our saviour , they will be known . therefore to determine , whether it was by gods inspiration , that they instituted their respective orders , he proposes these two wayes , . to examin their several rules , according to which their disciples oblige themselves to conform their lives and actions . . whether god hath acknowledged them for his servants by making use of them to the great benefit of his church and dilation of his honour . by these wayes he desires it may be judged whether there were not sufficient ground for bellarmin to say , that such orders were instituted by the inspiration of the holy ghost , and so do i. which cannot be done without a particular enquiry into the rules and history of their several religious orders , that by them we may see what evidence appears of any divine inspiration . and according to mr. cressy's particular zeal and concernment for the benedictin order , i begin with that : the person of honour having given that character of s. benedict that he believed him to have been a devout man in a dark time , according to his talent of understanding ; but that he might have been deluded by the effects of a distempered fancy , as many well meaning men have been ; and that he could di●cern nothing like divine inspiration in his rule ; but presently met with an impertinent allegation of scripture ch . . applying that place , rom. . crying abba father , to the person of the abbot as representing christ ; he proceeds farther , to say , that neither the reading of his rule , nor any of the rest , will oblige any man to be of bellarmins opinion , that those orders were instituted by the inspiration of the holy ghost ; and because of mr. cressy's great rage against me upon this subject of visions and revelations , he desires to know his opinion particularly concerning the revelation of s. francis on the mount palombo concerning the literal observation of his rule without any gloss ; which is printed with his rule , and with the popes bulls , and the testimony of s. bonaventure . mr. cressy in answer to this , takes no manner of notice of s. francis his rule , or revelation ; but leaves that to shift for it self ; but something he must say for the honour of s. benedict , and it all amounts to as little as could be wished . for he doth not produce any one thing , to make it appear more probable that s. benedict writ his rule by divine inspiration , which had been indeed to his purpose ; but only answers to the place of scripture mentioned ch. . of his rule ; and then brings several testimon●es of the great reputation the benedictin rule hath been in among popes , and saints and councils & kings & princes in after ages . and what of all this ? must this rule therefore be written by divine inspiration ? is it not possible for men to think them good rules , without believing them to have been inspired ? suppose this were approved , as the best monastick rule in these western parts , by popes , and princes and councils , doth it hence follow that it was immediately endited by the spirit of god ? if it were , it must be of equal authority with the bible ; if it were not , the charge remains good , that it was only an enthusiastical pretence to inspiration . § . . but to take off the force of all that mr. cressy saith in behalf of the benedictin rule , and to make good the first charge ; ( although mr. cr. hath evidently declined the proof of the affirmative which lay upon him ) i shall give these● reasons to prove that this rule was never written by divine inspiration . . because the main parts of it were borrowed out of former rules . . because what is of s. benedicts own , hath manifest signs of humane weakness ; particularly misapplication of scripture , mentioned by the person of honour . . because it was never received in the roman church as written by divine inspiration . . because the main parts of it were borrowed out of former rules . where we can with so much ease and certainty , trace the footsteps of humane industry in any writing , it is very unreasonable to attribute it to divine inspiration : and there is not one considerable part in the benedictin rule , which we cannot even at this distance of time shew from whence it was taken . hugo menardus a french benedictin hath published the concordia regularum written by benedict abbot of aniane , ( not by the english benedict , as reynerus would have it ) who was appointed by ludovicus pius to bring all the monasteries within his empire to one uniform rule , ( which it seems they had not before ) he therefore in pursuit of this design made it his business to search all the former rules , which having done , he published them together ; with this preface to them ; that sometimes he met with the very same words , at other times with the same sense which was in the benedictin rule ; and a little after he saith expresly , that s. benedict took his rule from those who were before , and gathered it as one handful out of many : and menardus there confesseth , that it was taken out of the rules of pachomius , s. basil , cassian and others , who lived before him ; which will very easily appear to any one who will take the pains to compare them . the benedictin rule begins with an account of the several sorts of monks , viz. the coenobitae who lived together under a rule or abbot ; the eremitae who lived by themselves in the desert ; the sarabaitae , who lived two or three together without any certain rule or governour ; and the wandring monks , who never remained in any certain place . to the very same purpose piammon the egyptian anchoret in cassian speaks , and reckons up the several kinds of monks with the very same descriptions of the three first , and alardus gazaeus saith , the fourth sort in cassian , is the same with the fourth in s. benedict . the . degrees of humility mentioned in the benedictin rule are , ( except the two last , and the pleasant passage of iacobs ladder , the two sides whereof he makes to be the soul and body , ) to be found in cassian , and some of them as gaz●us confesseth , in the very same words , but there more properly called signes . but there are two things especially mr. cr. seems to admire the benedictin rule for , viz. the ordering the ecclesiastical office , and the decent assignation of duties proper to all offices both of superiours and inferiours ; by these two therefore , let us judge whether s. benedict deserved any other admiration than that of a bare collector . the first thing remarkable in his ecclesiastical office , is , that after the nocturnal office the monks should not go to sleep again , but spend that time between that and mattins in reading and getting by heart the psalter and lessons ; which passage the commentators upon the benedictin rule are extreamly puzzled with , as may be seen in caramuel ; but if they would have looked into the old egyptian rules in cassian ; they might have easily understood both the meaning and the design of it . abbot isaac in cassian highly commends the use of that versicle upon every occasion , deus in adjutorium me●m intende ; domine ad a●juvandum me festina ; from hence s. benedict took it to begin the divine office ; menardus thinks , that the application of it to the office , was the invention of s. benedict ; ( surely not such a one which could not proceed , but from divine inspiration ) and yet walafridus strabo saith , the egyptians did begin their canonical hours with it . the egyptian monks , as cassian relates , had a great dispute among them , what number of psalms was to be used in the daily office , some were for . some for . and some for more , till an angel appeared in the midst of them , and repeated twelve psalms , upon which the whole senate of the fathers , understanding this number to be by divine inspiration , made a canon , that this number should be constantly observed , both at vespers and in the nocturnal office ; from hence s. benedict , as both menardus and gazaeus confess , took the number of . psalms for the nocturnal office ; but he allowed a much less number , viz. four or five for vespers . which i cannot but wonder at , since the angel did appoint both alike : and palladius saith expresly , that the angel revealed it to pachomius that . psalms should be used at vespers . had s. benedict a revelation against this ? if not , surely he was bound to follow the former ; if he had , we have great reason to question both . it is a poor excuse the benedictins use to bring their founder off , viz. that he added the completorium after vespers , and therefore shortned the service ; for , what authority had he to make new alterations , when the order was settled by a general consent of the egyptian fathers , and that upon the appearance of an angel ? but it seems the council at tours , rather adhered to the egyptian revelation than s. benedicts ; for they appoint . psalms at vespers , which they say was first learnt by the appearance of an angel. it seems very strange to me that s. benedict who so punctually followed the egyptian customes in other things , should presume to alter them in that which they pretended to have more immediately from divine revelation ; as it happened not only in this , but in the number of canonical hours , for palladius saith , that the tabennesian monks had it from an angel , that they were to observe but three canonical hours , viz. the nocturnal , vespers , and nones , all the rest of the time to be spent in work and secret prayers . but cassian saith , that the egyptian monks had but two canonical hours wherein they met to celebrate the divine office , viz. their nocturnal vigils and vespers ; unless it were on the saturday , or sunday ; on both which dayes they met for the holy communion at the third hour of the day ; ( for not only the egyptian monks , but most of the eastern christians kept both those dayes holy for the solemn performance of divine offices , which was the reason of their difference with the western church about the saturday fast ) ; but the monks of palestin and mesopotamia and of the whole orient , added more hours for the diurnal office , and cassian adds that in his time , in the monastery of bethlehem they added another hour after mattins , since called the prime , to keep the monks from laziness ; and withall by this means they might say with david , seven times a day will i praise thee ; which he saith may be accommodated to this , although it might have a mystical , i. e. saith gazaeus , a figurative meaning , for , often ; but the other , cassian saith , was the true reason of appointing it ; and he grants , that the most antient eastern monasteries would not admit of that alteration . but s. benedict makes no doubt , that was the psalmists meaning , and therefore appoints the seven canonical hours agreeable to the monks of bethlehem , and because it is said septies in die , he will have them all to be parts of the diurnal office ; for he had another place for the nocturnal , media nocte surgebam : but was it by revelation that he knew the former place was not understood of a natural day ? by these two instances we see , that s. benedict did most unhappily differ from the egyptian monks in those things , which they pre●●●● the most to have from divine revelation : but in other things he followed their example : as menardus saith he did in the short ejaculatory prayers at the end of every psalm instead of the gloria patri ; but he adds , that place in the rule is thought more difficult , because the practice of them is di●used , either through laziness , or the multiplicity and length of their offices ; but he saith , s. benedict observed this custome in the making of his rule , that those things which were more short in the former writers , especially in cassian , ●e inlarged , as about the abbot , the praepositus , the decani , &c. but what were more diffuse in them he contracted , as about these short prayers at the end of the psalms . for cassian expresly saith that the gloria patri was used in the east at the end of the antiphona , and not at the end of every psalm ; but then both there , and in egypt they had very short prayers ; of which menardus understands that clause of the benedictin rule about short prayers ; but i rather think it is to be understood of the concluding prayer . for cassian mentions only two sorts of common prayers used by the egyptian monks in their divine offices ; viz. the short mental prayers made at the end of every psalm ; and at every solemn stop in the reading of them , of which it was usual to make two or three on purpose in a long psalm ; and the collect at the end ( so called because then they did orationem colligere as cassian speaks ) which being pronounced either by priest , or abbot , or prior , he giving the sign , they all did immediately arise from prayers together ; and so the benedictin rule expresses it , & facto signo ● priore , omnes pariter surgant ; by which it seems most probable that the rule is to be understood of the short concluding collect. and it is observable , that the benedictin office consists almost wholly of psalms , antiphona's , hymns , and a few lessons ; very little care being taken about prayers , for the litania mentioned c. . . was only the kyrie el●eson ; only s. benedict appoints the prior to say at mattins and vespers the lords prayer aloud , for which he gives this very good reason , because the monks were so apt to quarrel ( propter scandalorum spinas qu●e oriri s●lent in monasterio ) that it was fit they should all say together , dimitte nobis sicut & nos dimittimus ; but ● other hours it was sufficient to say it to themselves , only the prior was to lift up his voice , & ne nos inducas , &c , and all the rest to answer , sed libera nos à malo . and what is there now in the benedictin office which looks like divine inspiration ? what is there , that a man who had never pretended to visions and revelations could not have done , by the help of cassian , and a very little mother-wit ? nay , what is there that was his own ? was it the adding the completorium ? so some say , but others shew plainly he had that from the rule of s. basil : was it , the first adding to deum to the mattins ? or the placing the antiphona's between the psalms , whereas the egyptians had them before them ? these are things insisted on , and gloried in , as the proper inventions of s. benedict ; great things i confess ; but such as i hope meer human wit may reach to without divine inspiration . but beyond all these the benedictins say , the order of reading the psalter was his own : very well : and was this it which came to him by inspiration ? when himself saith , that if his disposition of the psalms doth not please , they may make use of another , so they hold to the main point , viz. going through the psalter once a week ; which i perceive he laid great weight upon , but yet he never pretends to have had it by divine inspiration . for he seems by his rule to have been more humble and modest , and i am thereby enclined to believe those stories of his visions and revelations to have been made by some idle monks after his death , who hoped by this means to recommend their order more effectually to the world ; especially , after they had imposed upon the credulity of a well-meaning pope , and made him their instrument to publish them to the world. § . . but if the pretence of divine inspiration must be submitted to in these directors of religious orders ; why might not one serve for them all ? why not that , which was more ancient than any of these pretences in the roman church , viz. that of s. pachomius ? for , not only palladius , and sozomen , and nicephorus and others among the greeks do affirm that he received the monastick rules in a table of brass from an angel , but gennadi●s , vincentius , and others among the latins , and which is far more , the roman martyrologie confesses it , and rosweyd from thence calls him a second moses . who could imagine otherwise , after such acknowledgements as these , than to have seen pachomius his table in as much veneration among the monks , as those of moses were among the people of israel ? but no such matter ; although the latter monks love to practise by some of his rules , yet it would not cover their hypocrisie enough , to pretend to live by them . for the first of them is , to give the monks free liberty to eat or drink , or work or fast as they pleased ; only they that eat most were to do ●●ost work , and they that fast , to have less imposed upon them . it is to no purpose to mention the rest of his rules , since no sort of monks except the tabenn●sians , who increased to several thousands , thought themselves obliged to observe them ; and yet all authors that i have met with of the roman church , that mention this rule of pach●●●us , do allow it to have been received from an angel. what do they mean by these things ? can they have better rules than what an angel from heaven hath given ? or do they think the angel only intended them for the monks of tabennesus ? the angel , as sozomen saith , appeared on purpose to pachomius in his cave to draw him out from his retirement , and commanded him to gather monks and to take that brass table for their rule ? could anything be mo●e solemn than this ? but , if after such confessions , they think it lawful not to believe the truth of this story ; i hope we have much more reason to question the pretence to inspiration either in s. benedict , s. francis , or ignatius loyola . for this is averred by much more credible authors , and received by the consent of both eastern and western historians , and the roman church allows it in her martyrology : and yet , after all this , if there be no reason to believe it , what becomes of the credit of all the visions and revelations of the egyptian monks , which are not near so well attested as this is ? and if there be any reason to believe it , how comes that rule not to be universally embraced ? do they think s. benedict , or s. francis , or ignatius wi●er than an angel from heaven ? nay , how came so many other rules to be received in egypt after this rule of pachomius was known ? as the rule translated by s. hierome composed by pachomius , theodorus , and orsiesius ; which is said likewise to be received from an angel ; which gazaeus would have to be only an enlargement of the former ; but they were bold men that durst mend the defects of an angel ; another rule of orsiesius , out of which benedictus of anian hath taken several passages ; the rules of the two macarii both famous egyptian monks , and of serapion and paphnutius ; the fragments of which are extant in the concordia regularum . what do all these things mean ? but it seems the pretence of inspiration among these founders of religious orders , is just contrary to what the apostle saith of miracles , for this is not for those that believe not , but for those that believe . § . . but to return to the rule of s. benedict ; the other thing mr. cressy magnifies it for , is , the rules of government and discipline ; which , he saith , are so excellent that cosmo de medicis collected instructions from thence for the government of his people . great men love to be singular ; and take a pride in seeming to find that which no body else can . i dare say , if it be true , he was the only prince in the world ever learnt to govern his people by monastick rules . this is so great a discovery , that it is pitty we have no more of it ; for who can tell what maximes of policy might be drawn from thence by a subtle head ? what use the chapter of the choice of the abbot might be of in choosing ministers of state , or it may be , the officers of an army ? and what influence it might have upon a prince to do nothing without the advice of his wise council , because the abbot was to call the monks together in all matters of importance ? the monks lying in their cloaths all night , girt up , and the measure of their wine , and the pound of bread a day , and the two messes for all the monks , are seasonable items for souldiers : the burning of the candle all night in the dortor , a good memento for centinels : the monks laying aside their knives when they sleep , a caveat against self-murder : every monk's being obliged to be cook in his turn , affords that useful instruction , that no man is born only for himself ; but that every man ought to serve his countrey : the abbots care in looking to the utensils and habits , to take an account of them and to trust them in safe hands , will easily put a prince in mind of looking after his revenues . but i am afraid so subtle a prince as cosmo de medicis , would like no chapter so well , as that which saith , the monks are to have no propriety in any thing ; no , not so much as in their own wills. and i confess that would be the very height of policy , for a prince to get away the very wills of his subjects from them . i am a little to seek what instructions he could gather from the monks cowles , and scapular , and boots , and breeches when they travel , which are to be safely delivered back at their return ; with several other useful rules for the choice of the cellerar , porter , and such officers of state ; but although these things are above my reach ; yet who knows what use so wise a prince as cosmo de medicis might make of them ? nay , who can tell whether machiavil himself did not take his politicks out of the benedictin rules ? i see mr. cressy himself is grown a politician by being a benedictin ; for if he could perswade men to believe the benedictin rule to be so useful for governing of people , it were the only way to make persons of honour to love their rules , and to bring monks to the council table . but to leave this pleasant passage , and to return to what is more grave and serious : there is not any thing of moment in the benedictin rule about the government or discipline of the monastery , which is not likewise taken out of former rules : as will appear about the praepositus or prior , if we compare it with what the oriental rule , and the rules of pachomius , and orsiesus do say upon the same subject : the choice of the decani out of cassian , and the regula orientalis ; about excommunication of the refractory , from the rules of pachomius , s. basil , and the oriental and cassian and macarius : about the cellerar from s. basil , and the oriental rule : about the utensils , out of the regula patrum , pachomius , and s. basil ; about having all things in common , out of orsiesus , pachomius , s. basil , and others ; about serving their turns for a week in the kitchin , out of cassian ; about the infirmary , out of pachomius and s. basil ; about the weekly reader while they sit at table out of cassian ; and the silence to be used at meals , out of him and the oriental rule , and pachomius . it would be too tedious to insist upon the rest , about their work , hospitality , gifts , artificers , travellers , novices , garments , nay the very porters ; but whosoever will take the pains to compare the benedictin rule with the former , as to all these , will easily be convinced , that there needed no di●ine inspiration for the writing of his rule : unless the apostles wanted as much the assistance of the holy ghost to gather up the fragments and put them into a basket , as when they were to preach on the day of pentec●st . § . . but although this takes off from the divinity of their rule , doth it not add as much to it another way , by shewing the greater antiquity of it ; in that it was taken out of the eastern and egyptian rules ? i do not deny , that the monastick state came into the western parts out of the east , and began much later , and was entertained much colder a long time here , than it was there . for after that antony the eremite had gained a mighty reputation by the severity and solitariness of his life , not only with the emperour constantine , but with the governours of provinces , it is hardly conceivable what numbers , from all parts , the novelty and fame of this way , drew to be his disciples ; and how many were encouraged by his example to set up this new way of christian philosophy , as the greeks call it ; which although it were advanced with a contempt of humane learning , yet the p●etence of greater severity of life and a more easie way of subduing the passions of humane nature by withdrawing the occasions of them , made many understan●ing men , at first , to cry it up as a most divine and perfect state of life . from h●nce in egypt , ammon began the same way in the desert of scetis and upon mount nitria ; which in a little time were filled with the mu●●●tudes of his disciples , among whom the most famous were didymus , arsenius , ●●●r , isidorus , pambos and others . then pac●●mius went a way by himself in tabennesus , and had in a little time . disciples , which spread themselves over the bais and egypt : besides these there were apollonius , pitherus , anuphi ; and after them , many others mentioned by cassian , palladius , ru●finus , sozomen and others . the fame of these persons was spread so far in the roman empire , that multitudes flocked to them , to see their way of living , and to hear their discourses ; thence we read of melania and ru●finus going on purpose into egypt , s. gregory nazianzen , and evagrius , cassian and germanus ; and the same curiosity in others made the desarts become no great places of retirement to them . from hence hilarion one of antonies disciples , impatient of so much company as flocked continually to him , withdraws into palestine , carrying some monks with him , and settles himself in a desart , not far from gaza , where he in time gathered great numbers of disciples : and s. hierom expresly saith , that before the time of hilarion there was neither monk , nor monastery known in syria ; by which it is plain he doth not speak of the eremitical life only , but of the coenobitical too : whatever some pretend of the constant succession of the coenobitical state from the apostles times , which it seems s. hierome was utterly anacquainted with ; and he was not so little a friend to the monastick state , to have concealed it , if he had thought otherwise . in the further parts of syria , aones brought the same way of living into request , which was unknown there before ; and iulianus at edessa ; and eutychianus upon mount olympus ; and eustathius sebastenus in armenia , pontus , and paphlagonia . so far was this monastick life spread in the east , while the same ecclesiastical historians tell us it was not known in thracia , illyricum , or the parts of europe ; although they were not wholly destitute of men that did affect that way , for which sozomen only instances in martin and hilary . it seems by s. hierome that when the first notice of this way of living was brought to rome , it met with no kind acception there , because of the novelty of it ; but when the bishops of alexandria , athanasius and peter , fled thither upon their banishment , they recommended it so effectually to some of the devout women ; that first marcella , then paula , then sophronia , then eustochium , were all for embra●ing this kind of life ; and by degrees brought it into reputation at rome ; after this , ruffinus 〈◊〉 s. basils rule for the direction of the western christians , who had a mind to embrace the monastick state , with such additions and alterations as he thought fit ; and the egyptian rules were brought ( if not by eusebius of vercelles as some think ) yet it was certainly by cassian , and monasteries settled both in italy , and gaul , and brittain , before s. benedict went into his cave . § . . but , the monastick state had lost very much of its first reputation in the eastern parts , before it began to spread considerably in these western . that which first brought it into so great an esteem , was the mighty opinion of the extraordinary sanctity of the beginners of it , the severity of their lives , the strictness of their discipline , the frequency of their devotions , the diligence of their labours , and a retirement in good earnest from the world . but this hear was too great to continue long ; s. hi●rom in his time complains very much of the declension of the monks ; of those who made it only an art of living and a holy cheat ; of their fasting for wagers , and victory ; and their living without order and discipline ; these were those who were called sarabaitae , and by s. hierom remoboth ; and although they are commonly thought to be only a few degenerate monks , yet the abbot piammon in cassian hath this severe passage , that scarce any others were to be found out of egypt , as , he saith , he found by experience , when he was banished with his brethren in the time of the emperour valens . s. basil did his endeavour to bring them into better order by the making of his rule ; for his design was , not to found any new order of monks , but to bring those who were scattered up and down without rule and government , under some kind of discipline , which was well designed by him , but was far from being effectual for the end he aimed at . for by bringing them nearer to cities , they soon grew so troublesome in them , that the emperour theodosius was forced to publish an edict , commanding all that had taken upon them the profession of monks to retire from the cities into desart places , and to inhabit there ( which baronius , without any reason in the world , would have to be understood only of the manichees , and iovinian , and apostate monks ) but by the favour they obtained in the emperours court , this edict was repealed within two years after ; but his son arcadius found them so busie , that he published another edict against their rescuing persons from the tribunals of iustice ; which it seems was a common practice with them : and s. chrysostom mentions their coming down in troops to antioch to rescue those who were seized upon for palling down the empresses statue : for which although he highly applauds them , yet he found the ill effect of their busie and factious humour in his own case at constantinople : for by reproving them for gadding up and down the streets , as unsuitable to their profession , he made most of the monks his implacable enemies , who thereupon endeavoured to bring him into disgrace among the people : and when chrysostom fell into disgrace with the emperour , they kept possession of the church , and would not suffer the people to come in to prayers , upon which they were so enraged that they killed all the monks they could meet with . for now the first heat of their zeal was over , they began to interest themselves in ecclesiastical affairs , and to make parties , and factions in the church . and he that had a mind to set up for a new opinion , and to make a party , went a great way in his business , if he could get the monks of his side : upon this occasion they were first brought to constantinople , by the interest of macedonius , who with the help of marathonius a great friend of his , erected monasteries for them there , and by the assistance of the monks he very much strengthned his party . the eutychian heresie as well as the pelagian and macedonian had its beginning and support from the faction of the monks ; for eutyches himself was the abbot at constantinople , and with him joyned barsumas a famous syrian abbot , who was the occasion of the death of flavianus , as diogenes cyzicenus charges him in the council of chalcedon ; and upon his return home he and his monks of syria persecuted the bishops of the other party , having a thousand monks with him , and almost ruined the syrian churches . leo . charges the monks of palestin ( upon their great zeal , some for nestorius , and others for eutyches ) that they caused many seditions in cities , and great disturbances in churches , and had been the murderers of many bishops and priests ; and through their rage and cruelty had quite forgot their profession . these were the men that had renounced the world , and had mortified their passions , by the rigours and severities of a monastick life . but here the reader must take notice that in the late edition of leo by theophilus raynaudus the iesuit , the title of this epistle is , ad palaestinos episcopos , instead of monachos : so much more are the iesuits concerned for the honour of monks than of the bishops ; and care not what reproaches are cast upon them , so the other escape : but it ●alls out happily that baronius hath fully proved , that all those disturbances were made by the monks ; and that this epistle was written to them : by which we see what trust is to be given to their correct editions of fathers . and notwithstanding the great strictness and discipline of the egyptian monks we do not find them , after the first fervour was spent , much freer from faction and disturbance of the churches peace ; for they very early joyned with meletius against the bishop of alexandria , as epiphanius confesseth ; they complotted the business of arsenius against athanasius , and gave out he was killed by athanasius when they had concealed him ; and one iohn a monk was employed to accuse athanasius for killing arsenius who lay hid with prines a monk of thebais . in the time of theophilus bishop of alexandria , the illiterate monks of egypt were such zealous anthropomorphites , that upon theophilus his opposing their opinion in his paschal epistle , they forsook their monasteries , and came in troops to alexandria with a resolution to destroy him ; but theophilus knowing their simplicity , avoided their fury by a subtle answer , telling them he beheld their face as the face of god : with which they were very well satisfied , only desiring him to condemn origens books : which he told them he was ready to do . upon this occasion a mighty quarrel happened among the monks themselves , the more learned among them opposed the anthropomorphites , but the more ignorant and zealous were furious defenders of their doctrine , and charged all that opposed them with being origenists ; theophilus finding out this , and having a particular pique at four learned monks , dioscorus , ammonius , eusebius and euthymius , who were called the long brothers , he sends letters to the monks , to bid them have a care of them , for they believed god to be incorporeal , and therein were origenists ; for they did not believe that god had either eyes , or ears , or hands or feet : notwithstanding this , a very few , who had more learning , discerning the malice and craft of this suggestion adhered still to them ; but the far greater number who were very simple and furious , most vehemently opposed them , by which means an irreconcileable war brake forth among them ; and things , by theophilus his means , were inflamed to that height , that dioscorus and his brethren had much ado to escape with their lives , and fled to constantinople , where being receceived by s. chrysostom , this widened the breach between theophilus and him , and proved one occasion of his following troubles . the monks of egypt having been thus heated , it was a hard matter to keep them quiet afterwards , for in the time of cyril of alexandria , who was theophilus his sisters son , and immediate successor , the monks of nitria , hearing of the difference between cyril and orestes the governour , came to alexandria , . in a body , with a resolution to kill the governour , and one of them called ammonius , wounded him in the head with a stone , so that he hardly escaped with his life . after this , timotheus aelurus , who had been one of the egyptian monks , was the occasion of the death of proterius bishop of alexandria , and caused himself to be chosen in his place . theodorus lector saith , that he disguised himself in the night and went about the several cells of the monks , and called every one by his name , and when they asked who called them , he told them he was an angel sent to them to tell them they ought not to communicate with proterius , but they should choose timotheus for their bishop . by which story we have a true account some of the monkish revelations : and some historians report another as good as this at rome , viz. of boniface suborning one to speak under the appearance of an angel to that monkish pope celestin . that he ought to leave the papacy , and retire again to the wilderness ; which succeeded so well with the credulous pope , that he soon made way for boniface to succeed him ; who afterwards secured him from giving any further disturbance to his popedom . § . . by this we may see what mighty advantage the christian church received in the infancy of the monastick state , in those very places where it began , by the greatest pretence of piety and retirement from the world in those that embraced it . i do not wonder so many great men of the church should magnifie it so highly , before they had seen the tryal and experience of it ; for extraordinary things in the way of piety and abstraction of the world , are very apt to move men of devout minds at the first appearance ; but the best judgement of things is to be made by their continuance . and therefore it is observable that although the apostles began at first with a community of goods , while the christians were few ; yet this did not last among them ; nor was it required in the churches planted by them ; because it could not be convenient for all ; and for some to do it and others not , would be apt to beget breaches and mutual suspicions among them . and i do not find but that the church of corinth , where every one was to lay aside of his own for relief of the church of hierusalem , was in that respect as pleasing to christ , as that state of the church of hierusalem , wherein they had all things in common . and in matters of this nature , where the first appearance is very fair and plausible , ( as it was in the pretended devotion and retirement from the world in the egyptian monks ) we are not so much to regard the judgement of those persons concerning it , who lived in the first heat and beginnings of it , which was the case of s. athanasius , s. hierome , s. basil , and others ; as of those who lived to see the effects of it , after it came into a settlement . for they found after the first running so much of the lees still remaining , as put them into frequent and vehement fermentations , which plainly discovered notwithstanding all the pretences they made , they were ●ar from being clearly drawn off from the world. synesius was a man of excellent learning , and great judgement , an● bishop of ptolemais in egypt ( who lived between the monks of scetis and nitria , and those of thebais and tabennesus , and in a time when they flourished most as to number and zeal ) in his dion he gives an account of their way of living , of their hymns and prayers , and separate cells , and abstinence , and force they offer to nature , and the very kinds of their works , which cannot be understood of any other than the egyptian monks ; and so petavius and holstenius confess . and after he hath thus described them , he gives this character of their way , that it was barbarous and contrary to human nature ; for , saith he , we are not pure and unmixed minds , but joyned together with bodies , so that we cannot be wholly imployed in contemplation of divine things , but our minds must divert themselves to other matters ; and this , saith he , they confess themselves , by the great necessity of working which they lay upon all : i could wish that we were so framed that we could live wholly in contemplation ; but since that is impossible , i wish then , saith he , sometimes to be taken up with the best things , and at other times to partake something of the delight and pleasure of life . for i know my self to be a man ; and not a god to be wholly above these pleasures , nor a beast to be under the power of them ; and therefore that state of life which is between these , 〈◊〉 most agreeable to human nature . and then falls upon them , for preferring manual labour , before the exercise and improvement of the mind in knowledge and useful learning : which is both an imployment and pleasure to the mind . but in their adamantin way , as he calls it , there is no order , no gradual improvement , but all depends upon motions and impulses , and strange heats and transports , whereby they hope for the end without the means , and aim at things above reason without the exercise of it . how do these things agree , to be now above the heavens , and presently to be twisting reeds and making baskets ? but mans excellency lyes in his reason , which they take the least care about : and those will attain mans end the soonest that act most agreeably to his nature . he doth not deny that there have been some extraordinary minds , which without arts or improvements can do as much as others with them ; but these are as rare as the phoenix in egypt ; but the common sort of mankind are uncapable of this ; and all their labour and pains is to no purpose that think to attain to the perfection of the mind by any other way than by improvement of the mind it self . and it is not safe or lawful for us to think , that god should dwell in any other part of us , than in our mind , which is his proper seat. they mightily cry up temperance and continence , and admire themselves for those things which in themselves are the least ; any further than they serve to higher ends . and afterwards he takes notice of their confident pretences to the knowledge of divine things ; they , saith he , are divines , like cadmus his souldiers , sprung out of the earth ; and in good earnest , condemns them at last not only for their barbarous way of living , but for a strange mixture of pride and ignorance ; having very absurd opinions , and yet very arrogantly assuming to themselves a greater measure of divine knowledge than others had ; for they had a particular way of improving their minds by ignorance ; which was a sort of mystical divinity among them too . by this , and his epistle to hyp●tia ( wherein he describes them again by those peculiar vertues of their ignorance and confidence ) we may see , what opinion this great man had of the monastick way , when it was in its greatest height , and it was not a meer matter of hypocrisie , as it hath been for the greatest part in the western church ; but men did truly and honestly live in poverty , and real abstinence , and continual labour , with psalms and prayers , hoping by those means to come to the greatest perfection of our souls ; but he saw through all this , and found that when they labour'd only , or chiefly , to keep down the inclinations of the body , spiritual pride and self-opinion were like to get the better of their souls . and s. hierome who had some experience of this way , describes the temptation of spiritual pride , as the most common and dangerous snare , which the most severe and mortified men were apt to fall into ; nay , he saith , that antony himself fell into this , by reflecting on the perfection of his life , and that he was cured by an angel , which revealed to him the greater perfection of paul the eremite . one would wonder to meet with so many combats with devils as we find in the history of the old monks ; either it was as s. hierome intimates concerning some , that they feigned them for greater reputation among the people , or that state could not be so much per●●cter than others , wherein the devils were allowed to converse so much more freely with men than in other places . and if any one will read but s. ieroms description of his own temptations in the desarts , or his life of hilarion , he will easily find , it is not running away from the world will make men more perfect , unless they could leave their passions behind them ; and that a constant care of our mind , and actions in the midst of our imployments , is not only more pleasing to god , but a more likely way to subdue all disorderly passions , than the severest life of a monk or an eremite . we have no reason then to believe , that either the monastick state at first , or the benedictin rule did come from any divine inspiration ; but as this was borrowed from the former rules , so the former was taken up out of an unreasonable opinion that god is better pleased by our running from the world than by serving him in it . § . . . that the benedictin rule hath manifest signs of human weakness in it , and therefore cannot be supposed to come from divine inspiration . of which the first is , misapplication of scripture . to this purpose the person of honour mentions the bringing of that place , we have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear ; but the spirit of adoption whereby we cry abba father , to prove that the abbot doth supply the room of christ in the monastery , christ himself being the supream abbot . to which mr. cr. answers , by expressing his wonder how he could find the least defect , incongruity , or want of prudence in that passage : and he spends very needless pains to prove , that abbots being lawful superiours for the direction of souls , the most proper title that can be given them is that of father , and that abba signifies father . very well ! but what is this to the producing that place for it ? methinks our father which art in heaven had been altogether as proper ; for that would have shewed the title of the abbot as well ; and withall that the abbot was gods vicar upon earth ; god himself being their abbot in heaven . and if s. benedict had thought upon this place , all that mr. cr. saith , would have held as well to prove there was not the least incongruity in producing it ; and it would have afforded altogether as useful an admonition to the abbots to govern as fathers , and not to tyrannize as lords . but there is yet farther incongruity in it , for as the person of honour observes , s. benedict brings this in , to prove that the abbot supplies the room of christ in the monastery ( christienim agere vices in monasterio creditur , quando ipsius vocatur praenomine ) whereas there is no such thing in the text , christ is not called there by the name abba , but god the father , for after they are said , by the spirit of adoption to cry abba father ; it is said , and if children , then heirs ; heirs of god , and joynt-heirs with christ. so that christ here is not represented under the notion of abba , but rather as a son and heir to him that is called abba : therefore he that sustains the person of christ , can only be the eldest son , i. e. the prior and not the abbot ; so that it is impossible to clear s. bennet from an impertinent allegation of this place of scripture . but this is far from being the only place so impertinently produced by him ; for in the preface of his rule we have a whole cluster of them , wherein he puts together many places of scripture expressing the earnestness and sincerity of gods calling men to repentance and sincere obedience , to the monastick life and observing the rules of it . as though it were impossible for men to repent and to do gods will , unless they did presently renounce their estates ▪ and submit to the monastick rules . this , if he speaks to the purpose , he must account , awakening out of sleep : not hardening our hearts at gods call ; hearing what the spirit saith unto the churches ; running while we have light ; entering into gods tabernacle ; and what not ? as though all religion were confined within the walls of monasteries ; and the strait gate were no other , than that which gives men admission into them . this indeed was the great and fundamental cheat of the monastick orders in the roman church ; they would be called the religious orders , and would have men believe , that all piety and devotion was kept warm only under a monks cowle ; and that , if there were any such thing in the world ( as they called all out of their own precincts ) it grew very cold , by taking too much aire abroad . but although they durst not openly defend this , for fear of giving too great offence both to clergy and laity ; yet their insinuations tended this way ; for they only were the religious , and the rest were but the world. which was a horrible abuse of mankind , as well as of the christian religion ; which doth never suppose men to be a jot nearer to heaven for their nastiness , and lying in their cloaths , for abstaining certain days from flesh , for eating and drinking upon a common stock , for having their garments of such a shape and colour , or whatever other observances were peculiar to the monastick state . the christian religion requires sincere humility , and not a monkish affectation of it ; inward purity , and a chastity within the bounds which god hath set us , and not binding our selves by perpetual vows to abstain from what he hath allowed us ; heavenly mindedness , and a mighty regard to the rewards of another life , and not a needless renouncing what the bounty of heaven , and the care of our ancestors have provided for us , as to the conveniences of this life : the obedience necessary to salvation is that to the commands of christ , and not of an abbot . but this they would fain make people believe , that doing only what their superiours command them , is the self-denyal and renouncing their own wills , which the gospel makes so necessary to salvation ; which is a notorious misapplication of our saviours commands ; but these things are common to other monastick rules ; s. benedict hath other faults of this kind peculiar to his own rule : as when he brings these places for the monks confessing their sins to the abbot , revela domino viam tuam , & spera in illo : it is great pitty the word abba was not there for dominus ; for then it had been a plain case : but as it stands , it is somewhat hard to conceive how the abbot comes to be concerned in our making known ( if that were the meaning ) of our ways to the lord ; and to as little purpose are the other places that follow , confitemini domino , and several others that speak of confessing our sins to god , but not one word of the abbot , no nor of priest in them : yet this is not all , for in the same chapter he brings something for scripture , which was never there , as when he makes the publican to say domine , non sum dignus ego peccator levare oculos meos ad coelum ; which makes menardus cry out miror sanè , quia nunquam in toto evangelio repereris haec verba dicta à publicano : he justly wond ▪ ed at this quotation , there being no such words to be found in the whole gospel as spoken by the publican ; but the fairest excuse he hath to bring him off , is by saying that he qu●ted the words without book , by the help of his memory ; which if it be allowed will be certainly an argument to them , that he was not infallibly assisted by the h●ly ghost . but besides these , we have other arguments sufficient of humane weakness in this rule , if i should undertake to rifle and examine the several constitutions of this rule , particularly that , when the abbot requires impossibilities , not meerly moral as they would now soften it , but things utterly impossible , or unlawful to be done ; as when the senior in cassian required iohn the egyptian monk to remove a stone , which multitudes of men could not stir , and another commanded mucius to take his son and throw him into the river ; which they thought themselves obliged by vertue of monastick obedience to perform ; and in the case of such impossibilities s. bennet bids them , if the abbot persist in them , to trust to gods help and obey . but the reason given for this , is , that they must look on the commands of their superiours , as if they were the commands of god himself : which is a most senseless and unreasonable thing : but it seems by this , they give the abbot the title belonging to god , not meerly for name sake : but in case a man were required as mucius was , to destroy his own child , they must say , they are bound as much to obey as abraham was , upon gods command to sacrifice his son. nay we read in cassian , that god revealed to the abbot that mucius had perform●d the obedience of abraham ; and so they say of another , who threw his child into a fiery furnace upon the abbots command in imitation of abraham . but to justifie this blind obedience , to the commands of superiours s. benedict brings other very impertinent places of scripture ; such as obauditu auris , obedivit mihi ; ●on veni facere voluntatem meam , sed ejus qui misit me , &c. but i am sick of such idle and impertinent stuff , which yet must be cryed up , as the effects of divine inspiration . and although mr. cressy and his brethren , may admire and cry up the perfection of their rule , it is plain by the conclusion , their founder himself had no such opinion of it , for he calls it minimam inchoationis regulam ; a rule for meer beginners ; and menardus confesseth , there are much more perfect rules to be found in palladius , cassian , serverus sulpicius , s. pachomius and others : but s. benedict thought these high enough for the lazy monks of his time , as he expresses it : so that it is plain , he followed no inspiration in the dictating of his rule , but the old rule of humane prudence , when he gave them , not the best rules he could give them , but the best which they could bear . which , i suppose , was s. gregories meaning when he commended it , not for the perf●ction , or divinity , but the discretion of it . yet as gentle , and easie , and discreet as this rule was , it was hardly ever observed in the benedictin order , according to the letter of it ; but they have found so many evasions , and distinctions , and dispensations , that we are not to judge of this , or any other order among them , by their rules , but by their practices . for they have so many distinctions of the essentials and accidentals of their rules ; of being sworn to observe their rules , and to obey the abbot according to the rule ; about rules that have custom going along with them , and those which have not ; about simple rules of obedience , and purely penal and mixt ; about the wayes of interpreting rules and their obligation , f●om the intrinsick natures of the things , from the extrinsick probability of opinions , and the power of the pope to dispense , and their superiours to interpret ; that it is a very hard case if by vertue of one , or other of these , they cannot find some excuse for the neglect or violation of any of their common rules . and notwithstanding the great discretion of this rule , so little hath it been observed by the monks of this order , that caramuel cites this remarkable expression of cardinal turrecremata , that if s. benedict intended to oblige the consciences of the monks by all his rules , as so many moral precepts ; he would not have given them directions to heaven , but have laid so many sn●res for them to send them to hell. § . . . if this rule had been received in the roman church , as of divine inspiration ; how comes it to pass , that so many other rules did come up after this , and receive approbation and allowance in the same church , and upo● as great and as high pretences , as ever this was received ? if this were believed to have come from god , surely it would have been universally received as such , and embraced , assoon as it was made known to them ? how came this v●ry rule to be altered and improved so many times ? how came very different rules from this to receive as publick approbation ? and it may be easily made out , . that this rule was not generally received , where it was known in the confirmation of the ●●bot of cassino we read , that the pope 〈◊〉 s. benedicts's rule to him , use these words , accipe regulam spiritu sancto inspirante dictatam . receive the rule which was dictated by the holy ghost ; what could have been said more if he had delivered the bible to him ? who could imagine any thing less by this , than that the roman church did universally believe , that god had raised up s. benedict as a prophet in his age , and had sent him on purpose to settle a new sort of life under certain rules to be delivered by him ? so that as moses gave laws by divine app●intment to the people of israel , and christ to all persons that live in the world , so s. benedict was to give laws to such as did retire from the world , for whom christ had left no rules at all ; and taken no manner of notice of any such persons , although there were such among the iews then . but if this were s. benedicts commission , where did he open it , what way did he take to satisfie the world about it ? how came all the persons of that time and age who were for the monastick way , not immediately to yield themselves up to his government ? but we find nothing like this , in the history of that age wherein he lived ; no great notice was taken of him or his rule then ; there was one benedict of nursi● , an obscure person ( for even the wiser sort of the roman church laugh at arnoldus wion . who hath taken great pains to prove the austrian family and s. benedict to be descended from the same stock of the anician family ) who after some retirement from the conversation of the world gathered some disciples to him , who lived together after a monastick way . and what was there extraordinary in all this ? had not many others done the same before him ? and even in that age more considerable persons than himse●f : among the rest , was cassiodore , who had been consul and minister of state to theodoric ; in his declining age he founded a monastery wherein he lived himself , and gave directions to those under his care , and lived twenty years after s. benedict , but he takes not the least notice either of him or his rule : which surely he would have done , if they had been either of them thought of any consideration in his time . in the same time s. equitius in s. gregory , is called the father of many monasteries in the province valeria , without any notice of s. benedicts commission or rule ? and s. honoratus had two hundred monks under him , and was so far from being s. benedicts disciple , that gregory affirms he had no master at all but god. adeodatus had monks under his government , when benedict went into his cave , for his good friend s. romanus was one of them ▪ many othe●s we find mention'd in gregories dialogues ; it being a common thing in those distracted times for persons weary of the world to withdraw into some solitary place with some ●ew companions , and there to live hardly , rather than be continually exposed to the merciless fury of their enemies ; which first brought the monastick life into any great reputation among the more conside●able persons of these western parts . baronius confesseth , that at that time the monastick profession had lost its reputation in the east , through the heresie and licentiousness of the monks , when it began to spread it self in italy and the adjacent parts : but there was no certain rule among them ; every one who was the chief governed the rest according to his own discretion , and in general made use of s. basils rule translated by ruffinus , or the egyptian rules translated by s. hierom , or the conferences of the fathers by cassian as they thought fit themselves . and after the same way benedict himself governed those that were under him , disposing them into twelve cells , and placing in every one of them twelve monks with a superiour over them ; which gregory mentions long before he takes notice of any rule made by him , and ang●lus de n●ce the present , or late abb●t of cassino , consesies , that he did not make his rule , till a little before his death ; and that at the beginning he had not the least thought of making any rules for the order of monks : but being grown old , by l●ng experience , and observation , and comparing of former rules , he drew up those which go under his name ; which received no authority from him that made them , but depended upon the free consent of those who submitted themselves unto them : and therefore he compares them to the la●s of solon or the decemviri ; than which nothing can be said more d●structive to the pictence of divine inspiration ; for supposing these rules were dictated by the holy ghost , their obligatory power would not depend upon the consent of persons , but the divine authority of him that delivered them . holsienius thinks that s. benedict made his rule only for his own monastery at cass●●o , never intending it for any universal rule ; but whether he did or no , it was very little known for some time , after his death : for in an antient copy of it in the vatican library , there is a short preface before it , wherein we find that it is called latens ●pus , a work that lay hid , and that it was first brought to light by simplicius ; which is said likewise by sigebert : simplicius discipulus ejus latens magistri opus publicavit ; if this rule came by divine inspiration as the pope and mr. cr●ssy say ( what they believe i know not ) how came it to be concealed by ben●dict himself ? was that a thing befitting an inspi●ed person to wrap up such a divine talent in a napkin , and to hide it under ground ? angelus de nuce , a man much concerned to find out the truth in these things , saith , that s. benedict delivered his rul● but a few months before his death to s. maurus then going into france , and that before this , there is not a word said of it ; and that there were no copies then extant at all of it , that being the original given to s. maurus written with his own hand . this simplicius accompanied maurus into france , and there stayed till his death , and two years after , ( which was in all forty three years ) and then he together with faustus returned to their brethren in italy : ●nd then he made known the benedictin rule , which had been hitherto concealed . so that in the space of forty three years after benedicts death , there was nothing like an acknowledgement made even in the parts of italy , of any such rule at all as the b●nedictin , much less , that it came by divine inspiration . § . . but to shew the universal reception of this rule mr. cressy produces the confirmation of it extant in the monastery of sublac by gregory , wherein he mentions not only his reading , but confirming it in a holy synod , and commands the observation of it through several parts of italy , and wheresoever the latin tongue is spoken ; and that whosoever shall come to the grace of co●version should most diligently observe it even to the end of the world. this i confess is to the purpose , and so much that i think all that are not of the benedictin order in the roman church are concerned to answer it . but we need not take much pains to discover the fraud of this , for gallonius in his vindication of baronius against the bendictins , hath given several proofs of the forgery of it ; not only by the falseness of the date by comparing it with gregories epistles , but because therein iohannes albanensis episcopus subscribes , whereas in the true copies of the roman synod at that time , it is homobonus albanensis ; and because the custom of publishing decrees by the bishop who was the bibliothecarius was much later than that time ; for gregory made use only of his notary for for that purpose . and this is so much more probable to be a meer forgery of the monks , since that hath been alwayes their particular knack in what concerns the honour of their order , as the same a●thor hath shewed in many examples relating to our present purpose . for he hath fully proved several of the pretended priviledges of the ben●dictins to be gross forgeries , as likewise the ample donations of gordianus and tertullus , and the confirmation of the letter by iustinian ; the bull of pope zacharie , and his epistle to petronax ; the epistle of gregory to bonitus ; and that they had rased several words out of a bull of b●niface the fourth on purpose that gregory the great might appear to have been of the benedictin order , as he makes it evident by comparing several copies of the said bull. have we not then great reason to trust these men in what concerns the honour of their order , who make no conscience of forging donations , or priviledges , or decrees that make for them , or of rasing out what makes against them ? and this con●e●ed by men of their own church ; and the ●acts so notorious , that gallonius saith . cardinal baronius was ashamed of them● they were such gross impostures ; and he ad●s himself , that had it not been for their vehement provocations , he would not have e●posed such things to the world. the like impostures to these have been discovered by others of the roman church , who were men of more integrity , than either to de●end or des●emble the shameless forgeries of the monks ; as any one may easily satisfie himself by the very many discourses published by ioh. launoy to that purpose . but i need not go from my present business ; the same gall●nius hath proved the epistle of the abb●t of s. h●noratus to simplicius a●bot of cassinum to be of the same stamp : where●n it is said , that all the monasteries of i●●ly had then embraced the benedictin rule ; of which whosoever was the author , gall●nius saith he , deserved to be punished as one ci●●arellus at rome was , who was hanged and his body burned for forging old writings ; it is pitty that all who have been equally guilty there , have not suffered in the same kind . we do not find then any evidence great enough to shew that the benedictin rule was either delivered at first as from divine inspiration , or believed to be so , in those parts of italy where it was first known , or that those of the monastick order did think themselves obliged to embrace it . s. benedict a little before his death sent maurus and his companions into france to propagate his rule there : and because mr. cressy quotes a synod about a. d. . acknowledging s. benedict to be inspired by the holy ghost , i ●hall briefly give an account of the entertainment the benedictin rule met with in those parts . before the coming of maurus into france , there were several monastick rules ●ell known there ; the rule of s. basil and the egyptian rules are mentioned by their eldest historians . the monks under honoratus at lerins , as appears by cassian , followed the egyptian rule ; and eucherius brother to honoratus , saith , that those monks brought the egyptian fathers among them . those about marseilles followed cassian ; the monastery of reomaus was under the rule of macarius , as appears by clodoveus his precept . besides the●e , there was the regula tarnatensis mentioned in the concordia regularum , which was observed at agaunum or s. maurice , built a. d. . and of s. caesarius , which was observed in several parts of france ; and all these before the benedictins were heard of there : and a. d. . the bishops of france in a council at tours commended the rule of s. caesarius to radegund●s ; which they would hardly have done if the benedictin had been in such esteem there , as mr. cressy suggests . nay , a good while after the benedictins coming into france , other rules were embraced and followed much more than that , as the rule of s. columbanus , which was not received there till a. d. . yet though the other had so much the start , this gained ground very much of it , in the esteem of the people and numbers of proselytes . for as the late french annalist observes , most of the monasterics in fra●ce followed the rule of columbanus and very few the benedictin ; which the benedictins finding to take much off from the antiquity and reputation of their order in france , when they could not fairly expunge the name of columbanus , they have added the rule of benedict to it ; and so would incorporate both these rules into one , without any pretence from reason or antiquity . for the french benedictins themselves cannot but confess , that the rule of columbanus was at first very different from that of s. benedict , ( although before they say , that those of their order had alwayes believed them to be the same ) for in the rule of columbanus they cannot find any footsteps almost of the benedictin , and withal they grant , that columbanus came from the monastery of banchor into france , before the benedictin rule was brought into britain ; but they say that afterwards these two rules were united together : ( although in the preface to the first tome they had said , they were united from the beginning ; ) but they had as little reason for the latter assertion , as they had for the ●ormer . for not only the iesuits henschenius and papebrochius have plainly asserted and proved the continuance of the difference between these two rules ; but the french annalist le cointe hath fully answered all the benedictins pretences , and charges those of their order with frequent interpolations of antient records on purpose to advance the credit of their order , and that no ill will to their order , but meer love to truth made him discover this to the world , and at large shews that other rules continued to be observed to the eighth century ; in a●l which time the benedictin rule was in small reputation , till boniface's going into germany : after which it began to be setled by some synods there ; and so by degrees it was brought into those monasteries which before had been under other rules , and those such as had not only been embraced before the coming of maurus ; but several that were made after it , as those of aurelianus , ferreolus , and donatus ; which are all mentioned in the concordia regularum . i now leave the reader to judge , whether there be the least probability , that either in italy or france , the benedictin rule was looked upon as a rule coming from divine inspiration ; which met with so little acceptance in those ages , when they might the best judge concerning it , and in those places where the monastick state was in great esteem . § . . . after it did come to be generally received if it were really thought to from god , how came so many alterations and improvements of it to be made , and new rules to be set forth by the consent and approbation of the roman church ? they could not certainly think that the holy ghost would raise up a person on purpose , and yet deliver by him an imperfect rule ; if it were perfect , with what face or conscience coul● they think to amend it , or set up others besides it ? yet both these are manifestly done , by the multitude of additional or different rules which came up afterwards . the only pretence for it , is the degeneracy of the order by length of time and bad customs ; but what then ? must the rule be amended , or the lives of men ? must we have a new bible , because this is not observed ? or can we hope that men will be reformed by another , if not by this ? but this was so frequently practised in the roman church as to the monastick rules , that the most charitable opinion we can have of them , is that they looked on all of them only as humane constitutions which might be altered , or amended at pleasure . the first amendment and alteration of the benedictin rule was in the monastery of clugny in burgundy ; the beginning of which is imputed to odo the second abbot , who dyed a. d. . saith arnoldus wion ; . saith the chronicon cluniacense ; flodoardus and ademarus call him the restorer of the rule , and so do most other historians , who all agree in the universal decay of the monastick discipline in that age ; saying , that all the fervor was quite spent , and nothing but the meer dregs of idleness and luxury were to be found among the monks ; that odo was singular in his endeavours to restore discipline among them , and therefore was cryed up as a man of extraordinary sanctity . petrus cluniacensis who succeeded him in the government of clugny a. d. . saith , that in almost all the parts of europe there was nothing of a monk left , besides the tonsure and the habit ; which was little enough of all conscience : that odo undertook the reformation of it almost alone , and he calls him not only the reformer of the order , but of the rule too : but i find no great alterations that he made in it , but only adding some hymns of s. martin , to whom he had a particular devotion : but the greatest reformer of the rule was this petrus clu●iacensis , who first composed the statutes of the congregation of clugny , published out of ms. by marrier and du chesne , in seventy six chapters : and it seems by a bull of innocent the second , bearing date a. d. . ( extant among their records ) that the pope gave him power to correct and alter things for the good of the order : and in his preface he gives this reason of the alterations he made ; because it is one thing what god hath appointed by an eternal law , and another what is appointed by men for the benefit of others ; the first can never be changed , but the latter may : and among these things which may be changed , he reckons fastings , vigils , bodily exercise and labour , about which so many chapters of the benedictin rule are spent : and in the ecclesiastical office which mr. cressy admires the benedictin rule for , he makes several considerable amendments and alterations ; and the reason he gives , why he would have the abstinence from flesh observed , is , because there was no reasonable cause of changing it , as there was in other parts of the rule ; which is a manifest proof , that he did not at all look on the rule as coming from god , but such as might be altered or amended , as they thought fit . after him henry the . abbot of clugny made a large collection of all the alterations that had been made either by the popes , or their own superiours in the statutes of their order ; which are so many as are certainly enough to convince any man , they looked not on the benedictin rule , as coming at first from any divine inspiration . and among the considerable alterations made by this henry himself , the chronicon cluniacense takes notice of one very remarkable , viz. that he first appointed that monks should be shaved by secular barbers ; for which this very good reason is given , that when they shaved each other , it was not rasure but excoriation ; for which kindness , among many other good things which he did , the author of the chronicon saith of him , anima ejus requiescat in pace . amen . these reformations of the benedictin rule by the monks of clugny , were by no means pleasing to those who began the cistertian order ; for as appears by an epistle of petrus cluniacensis to s. bernard the cistertians objected to them , that they had made new rules of their own , and rejected the antient rules for their own customs , notwithstanding in their vow they had promised to observe the benedictin rule ; and they had made so great alterations and corruptions in the monastick state , that they had little besides the name of monks left : to this the cluniacenses replyed , by calling the cistertians a new race of pharisees , that cry touch me not , i am holier than thou : and how could they call themselves such strict observers of the rule ( for the cistertian order was begun upon this pretence of restoring the genuin benedictin rule by keeping to the letter of it ) when the rule commanded them to think better of others than of themselves ; and you , say they , are the saints ; you are the rare men ; you are the only monks in the world ; you must have a new colour of your own ; you must be the white boys , when all the rest must pass for black sheep . and no colour , say they , could have been worse chosen for such whining companions , since white is the colour of ioy and feasting , and black of mourning and sadness . thus the jolly monks of clugny replyed to the new and severe order of cistertians . and for the alterations of the rule , petrus cluniacensis answers they had done nothing amiss in it ; for he appeals to a higher rule , viz. that of scripture ; and do you think , saith he , that when we promised to observe the benedictin rule , we renounced the rule of scripture ? and from the practice of it in former ages , he pleads for the change of former rules . the cistertians charged the cluniacks with breaking their rule in wearing of furrs ; the cluniacks brought not only the example of adam for it , but which was more to their purpose of s. benedict too ; for , say they , very subtilly ; if he did not wear the skins of beasts , how came the shepherds to take him for a beast when they found him in the cave ? and do you think , say they , that your number of coats , is not as bad as our furrs ? but the cistertians were as angry with the cluniacks , for their wearing breeches ; but they pleaded a jus divinum of breeches from aarons vestments , for although , they say , ceremonials do not oblige , yet the apostle saith , those things happened to them in a figure ; but they are somewhat troubled that aarons were linnen drawers and represented the chastity of the priests ; yet at last they best resolve the point into the ●postles prec●p● about decency and modesty . for the matter of their bedstraw and matts , which the cistertians objected , petrus 〈◊〉 tells s. bernard , they had plainly the rule of their side , which left those things to the care of the abbot . but they were somewhat more troubled about the pound of bread a day , which the benedict●n rule is to exact in , that a third part of it is prescribed to be reserved for supper ; but suppose say they , it should be a little over or under the third part of a pound which was left at noon ; must we presently go to hell for it ? must men weigh their bread when they travel ; and carry the cellerar with them ? for the rule saith , it must be delivered into his hands . you indeed , say they , are the men that strain at gnats and swallow camels ; and make our rule to lay traps and snares for us : and withall they call them the weighers of syllables , the hunters of butterflies , that prefer the letter of the rule before discretion ; and set up the authority of that against the conveniency of alterations , which petrus cluniacensis at large pleads for towards th● end of that epistle . notwithstanding all this , s. bernard laments the going of his nephew robert from the c●stertian order to the cluniack , as if he had turned out of the way to heaven into that which leads directly to hell ; and that , not barely , for the not performing his vow ; but he calls the cluniacks , wolves in sheeps cloathing ; such as laughed at voluntary poverty , and fastting , and vigils , and silence , and labour , and accounted them madness ; and called idl●ness contemplation ; and eating , and talking , and all manner of jollity , discretion . how , say they , can god ●e delighted by our tormenting our selves ? where doth the scripture command men to kill themselves ? what religion is it for men to dig the earth , to cut wood , to carry dung ? wherefore hath god made such provision if we may not taste it ? wherefore hath be given us bodies if we may not preserve them ? what wise man ever hated his own flesh ? by these arguments , saith he , was the poor silly sheep drawn to clugny , and there he was washed and shorn ; and had rich vestments put on him instead of his former raggs . by this we see , that these several orders charge hypocrisie upon each other as freely , and as truly , as we can do upon them all . § . in italy there was nothing of poverty left , to which they so much pretended who began the monastick way , save only the bare name of the vow of poverty . and what is this but great hypocrisie , to pretend their ●erfection to lye in poverty , while they abound in wealth ? as though it were only possible for men to be rich by themselves ; but in case they lived upon a common stock without any particular property , they must be poor and could not be otherwise : although they had above the third part of the lands in the kingdom in their hands , as it was the case here in england . call you this poverty ? is this the keeping a vow of poverty , solemnly made to god ? or rather is it not a plain mocking of god , and a horrible abuse of the christian world ? if such men did mean honestly , they would speak as others do ; and declare that the monastick state after the accession of so great riches , was quite another thing from what it was first designed ; that it now became a more easie and pleasant way of living ( only some kind of severities must be undergone to keep the world from seeing through their pretences ) because that in it men were freed from all manner of cares of families or estates , and they lived together , without any fear of the want of suitable company ; and every one in hopes of having their condition bettered by the remove or death of their superiours , and no one in fear of having it worse , as long as the riches of their community continue . if some philosophers had been to set down the way of life with the greatest conveniency and freedom from trouble , they would have pitched upon a rich monastery ; where they were all rich in common , and yet no man had particular property ; but i think they would have had more honesty than to call this a state of poverty . but if ever any persons practi●ed plato's common-wealth , they were the wealthy monks , who had plenty of all things in common ; but surely never any philosopher thought plato meant to bring all men to poverty by it ; or that men could swear to be alwayes poor and yet enjoy an equal share with others of all conveniences of life . epicurus himself , would have been for a temperate diet , and some healthful severities , and would have born a confinement within pleasant walks , and gardens , with good company . i know nothing would have troubled him so much as to have been chosen abbot ; for the necessity of giving entertainments , and treating strangers , and looking after great revenues , might have robbed him something of his beloved tran●quillity . but to call these things the keeping a vow of poverty , epicurus himself would have abhorred : yet this was the way or none , which they had to observe it , assoon as the kindness of princes and others to the monastick life had brought such mighty possessions to monasteries . if we believe arnoldus wion , who was himself of the monastery of cassino , that had under it principalities , d●chies , earldoms , cities , castles , towns , ● mannors , sea-ports , islands , mills , territories , ● churches ; and were not the monks here in a good condition to keep the vow of poverty ? volaterran might well say , that s. benedict left rather kingdoms than monasteries to his disciples ; and instead of receptacles for men really poor , places of idleness and luxury ; the same arnoldus wion useth volaterran's expression concerning the ancient benedictin monasteries in france , that they were rather kingdoms than monasteries ; and that charles . said , that s. maurus had gotten more riches by his breviary , than his predecessors had done by their swords . so that it is no wonder , to hear men complain so early of the general decay of the monastick state ; as iacobus de v●triaco , and petrus damiani and others do , and say plainly that there was a necessity of a reformation . and since the monastick state is accounted one of the most perfect in their church , why may not the rest need a reformation too ? petrus damiani confesseth that there was nothing of a monastick state left , besides the meer habit ; that their rules were forgotten , and their discipline lost , and under the shew of religion they lived like other men . from hence men that were in good earnest , forsook the monasteries , and betook themselves to the deserts ; and began to institute orders upon new foundations . so s. romualdus , having been . years in the monastery of classe near ravenna , was forced to withdraw from thence ; for , taking upon him to correct his brethren for breaking their rule , they endeavoured to break his neck , when he was risen earlier than the rest to his prayers ; but having discovered their design , away he goes into the desart , where he led a very severe life , and endeavoured to bring up others under him , in the old egyptian discipline , keeping them to fasting and hard lodging , and work , some making spoons , others spinning , others making nets and sackcloth ; so that the mountain sytria , was , saith damianus , become another nitria . the same author describing the eremitical life which he and his companions ( about in all ) led in the place called fons avellani , laments● the degeneracy of the monastick order , and sets down the rules they were resolved to live by ; which prescribed a far stricter course than the benedictin rule doth , both as to the psalter , and fasting , and penance , and silence . they who have a mind to read the perfection of their discipline , may see it in the life of dominicus loricatus , one of his disciples ; who did for many years wear armour next his skin ; ( from ●●ence he had his name of loricatus ) he lathed himself with both hands every day , while he said over the psalter twice , and thrice a day in lent ; in six dayes he performed the penance of a hundred years ; which was thus reckoned , lashes went for a years penance ; after which proportion every psalter made up years penance , lashes being accounted for every ten psalms ; and so psalters disciplin'd and set home with both hands would make up the penance of years ; one lent , he saith , he went through a thousand years penance in this way . we must not expect to meet with many such examples ; one such man by his works of supererogation might be enough to expiate for all the monks in italy . and i do not question they were glad to hear of such a stock coming in to the churches treasury , out of which they hoped for a plentiful share . but there was one of romualdus his disciples , who endeavoured to restore the coenobitical life , viz. iob. gualbertus of florence , to whom the image bowed with so much kindness after the sparing the life of his brothers murderer , that upon it he embraced the profession of a monk near the church where it was done : after which he went into the desart of camaldoli to romualdus ; but not liking the eremitical way so well , he betakes himself to the shady valley , thence his order is called , ordo vallis umbrosae , and there adding some constitutions of his own to the benedictin rule , he begins a new order which was approved by alexander ● . a. d. . and he was canonized saith wion , by greg. . by celestine . saith miraeus . he seemed to have a great zeal to restore their primitive poverty , which he shewed in destroying two monasteries by a miracle ; the one by an inundation of water because it was too magnificently built , and the other by fire , because it had received the whole patrimony of a person who came into their order ; and out of his great zeal for holy poverty , saith antonine , he not only tore the writings asunder ; but prayed god to be revenged on that monastery , which he was no sooner almost gone from , but the greatest part of it was burnt to the ground . long after these ludovicus de barbo , a. d. . attempted the reformation of the benedictin order in italy , by restoring poverty , chastity and obedience ; and this was called the congregation of s. iustina de padua , and since the congregation of cassino ; wherein many new constitutions were added to the benedictin rule ; several other attempts of reformations are mentioned by antonine and others . but to how little purpose all the former reformations of the monastick state were , we need no other testimony , than of s. antonin , who reckoning up the original benedictins , the camaldul●nses , vallis umbrosae , the cluniacenses , cistertians and carthusians , he concludes with a passionate lamentation of their monstrous degeneracy , in the words of s. bernard ; and afterwards adds , that it was scarce possible at first to believe , that an order begun with so much severity as that of monks should fall into so great loosness ; when the old monks met together in s. antony 's time , their minds were so taken up with divine things that they forgot their bodily refreshments ; but now , saith he , it is quite otherwise , nothing of the scriptures , nothing that concerns mens souls , nothing but idle talk and laughing when the monks do meet together ; and s. bernard complains of them , as though there were nothing but idleness , and luxury , and intemperance to be found among them . the cistertians whom s. bernard magnified so much in his time , were declined , saith s. antonin , so far from the steps of their fathers , that they were become unprofitable . the cluniacenses he saith , were as black within as without : the camaldule●ses were degenerated from the steps of romualdus , and were all gone backward , a very few excepted . among those of the vallis umbrosa there was scarce one to be found who did good : in a word , he saith , all the monkish and regular orders , which began with so much fervour and zeal , had so far by degrees fallen off from the rules of their fathers , that they had nothing left among them but their meer vows ; and how well those were kept in such a degeneracy is easie to imagine . the only order which he allows to have preserved to his time its first vigour , was the carthusian . which began about the same time with the cistertian : but bruno the first institutor of it was far from thinking the benedictin rule to be perfect ; and therefore he endeavoured as romualdus had done in italy , to revive the old egyptian discipline and severity ; and with his companions he began a kind of eremitical life , living twelve together in distinct cells , though within the same walls , under the inspection of a prior , with lay brethren and a few mercenaries ; their diet was the coursest bread , wine very much diluted with water ; eating no flesh sick or well , buying no fish but eating them when given ; sundays and thursdays they might eat cheese or eggs ; tuesdays and saturdays pulse or boil'd herbs ; the other days only bread and water ; and they eat only once a day except the great holy-days , and then they eat together , and say mass , and keep their canonical hours in publick , which at other times , ( excepting only mattins and vespers ) they observe in their cells ; where they are obliged to perpetual silence and labour and reading and prayer . their habit is a short and strait garment , rough and sordid even to frightfulness ; and they wear sackcloth next their skin : this is the account given of their order by guibert , iacobus de vitriaco , and by petrus cluniacensis , who commends it for the sanctity and strictness of it ; a very ●ood rule saith p●lydore v●rgil , if the passions of the mind could be confined within cells , and the flesh be tamed by solitude and idleness ; which s. hierome sound it so hard to do with the greatest pains . a most certain way to heaven ! if only ea●ing fl●sh , and cleanly apparel , and conversing with our friends , were the things that sent men to hell . humbertus complains that in his time a. d. . a great deal of the severity of their first discipline was abated by dispensations and relaxations ; but whatever agreeableness they may pretend in other things to the old egyptian l●●urae , they are as far beyond them in the point of riches as may be ; for although they began at first with the pretence of great poverty and restraining their goods and cattel and lands within certain bounds , yet for their number they have attained to as great riches as any order whatsoever , whereas cassian saith , the old egyptian monks had nothing at all to live up●n but the fruit of their own labour , and refu●●● to receive any thing to the advantage 〈…〉 monastery , from any who came 〈…〉 although the carthusians had no rule given them at first , yet they have been governed by certain customes of their own ; among which one is , that it is not lawful for them , to observe the discipline , or vigils , or religious exercises , or fasts of any other religious order ; which had been a very profane custome among them , if they had believed that their rules were from divine inspiration . § . . when all the former monastick orders had lost their reputation in the world as to their pretence of poverty , which they began with ; then appeared another sort who would not be called monks but friers ; and to satisfie the world as to their poverty , they declared ▪ they would have nothing appropriated to them as a community , but would live upon the charity and benevolence of others , and therefore would go under the name of mendicant friers ; which grew so numerous at first that the council of lyons reduced them to four , viz. the dominicans , augustinian eremites , carmelites , and franciscans . but among these the highest pretenders to poverty , were the last mentioned ; who would be contented with nothing short of the perfection of poverty : for this above all things was s. francis his mistress , which he pretends almost to adore ; and in one of his collations he calls poverty the queen of vertues , a special way to felicity , the root of perfection : the hidden treasure mentioned in the gospel , for which a man parts with all that he hath ; to attain the height of which , he saith , a man must not only renounce worldly prudence , but in some sort humane learning too : for , saith he , that man doth not perfectly renounce the world that retains the bag of his own sense within his heart . poverty , he calls , the foundation of his order upon which it would stand or fall ; nay , such a true lover of poverty he was , that they say of him , he could never be reconciled to the ants , because they provided for themselves so long before hand . but for those of his order , he charges them ( as solomon did about wisdom , ) above all things , to follow poverty ; and especially in their buildings ; and therefore bids them build poor and mean lodgings for themselves ; which they ought not to dwell in as their own , but to lodge in them as travellers . and he makes it one of the inviolable rules of his order , that they should have nothing appropriated to them , neither house , nor place , nor any thing . and as the carthusians zeal was against flesh , so s. francis his was against money ; which he strictly enjoyns those of his order never to touch ; as though the soul were infected at the fingers ends . as for working , he leaves it to those to whom god hath given the grace of working ; which he perceived to be not near so common a grace with them , as that of idleness ; if they did chance to work hard , they might receive necessaries for it for themselves and their brethren , but by no means money ; and the height of poverty , he tells his disciples , would certainly bring them to heaven . this was to be their portion in this world , to which they must stick close . which was a portion easily left , and which they were very willing to part with ; although s. francis took as much care to secure it to them as man could do : for the rule concludes with a heavy imprecation of the indignation of god and his saints against those who should presume to violate it . and in his testament he earnestly recommends to them , the strict observation of his rule ; and forbids all glosses upon it ; and saith , that as he had written it simply and plainly , so he would have it understood by them without any gloss. and to make this hard lesson to go down the easier , it is evident by the whole management of it , that s. francis had a mind to have his rule received as from divine inspiration ; which we do not find s. benedict himself ever pretended to , for he concealed his own rule , and ingenuously con●esseth at the end of it , whom he had profited by ; but s. francis very formally in imitation of moses , goes up to a mountain , and there in the cleft of a rock abides for forty dayes together fasting , only with bread and water ; there he pretends , to have his rule dictated to him by the holy ghost ; after the forty dayes , down he comes to assisium and brings his rule with him , and gives it to br. elias , to whom he delivered it to be kept . elias did not like the severity of it , and pretended to have lost it ; up goes s. francis again to the mountain , and brings it down new made . elias and his brethren were hugely troubled , but knew not how to help themselves , at last they agreed to go to him together , and tell him they could not keep it ( for elias knowing his spirit and self-will , told them plainly he durst not go to him alone ) s. francis suspecting the matter , and seeing them coming towards him , assoon as they had got to the top of the mountain leaps out of the cleft of the rock , and with a fierce countenance , asked elias what the matter was ? he very submissively tells him , he came to him in the name of them all to intreat some abatement of the severity of the rule . s. francis immediately expresses a mighty passion against them , and calls them in a ●olemn appeal to god , an unbelieving and disobedient generation . forthwith , saith their annalist , a bright cloud appeared , and upon it , christ himself ( o horrible blasphemy ! ) saying , why art thou troubled man , as though this were thy work ? art thou the law-giver ? art thou the beginner of this way ? are not all the precepts prescribed by my self ? were not the tables formed by me ? thou wert only the instrument and pen of the writer . i know what i dictated , and what i would have observed ; the strength of men is known to me , i know what they can do , and what assistance i can give them : i will have this rule observed to a tittle , to a tittle , to a tittle ; without any gloss , any gloss , any gloss. all this while s. francis was kneeling and they trembling ; then he tells them , brethren , you see how you have resisted the will of god ; if your ears do not tingle yet , i will make the same voice to be heard again ; at which they were confounded and affrigh●ed and fell upon their faces ; and upon their promise of obedience be descended , saith wadding , like another moses carrying the tables of the law , with his face fiery and shining ; but according to the vulgar latin it should have been horned too . notwithstanding all this , they were at it again , and and desired that at least they might have something in common , for their numbers increased so fast , it would be impossible to keep strict poverty . s. franc●s goes up the mountain once more , and returns with a promise only that god would provide for them if they would keep to their rule , then they all submitted to it . wadding and de la hay take great pains to prove , that this rule was immediately given by christ himself , not only from the testimony of s. brigitt , but of several popes , viz. gregory the ninth , nicholas the third and fourth , clement the fifth , iulius the second . upon this , away goes s. francis begging to rome , when he comes there , the pope told him his rule was too strict ; but upon his solemn affirmation , there was not a word in it of his own , but it was all dictated by christ himself ; it was confirmed by pope honorius , and he denounces a curse on the breakers of it . surely , if the pretence of divine inspiration for the monastick rules be received in the roman church , s. francis bids much fairer for it than s. ben●dict ; for it is plain , he had a mind to have it believed not only by his b●eth●en , b●t by the pope and cardinals , who joyned in the confirmation ; and by the●r whole church . § . . let us now see what this per●ection of poverty soon came to , and whether any such respect hath been shewn to this rule , as if they did believe it to have been from god : not long after s. francis his death , elias being made their general , ●btains priviledges from the pope for receiving of money by a third person ; directly against the letter of the rule ; and soon after he lived splendidly and fared well , kept horses and a retinue , and told them , all this was necessary for the support of his government . but this was too gross , and would presently have spoiled the reputation of their order , and therefore upon the complaint made of it at rome , he was discharged , and another chosen . who was no sooner in , but disputes arose among them about the sense of their rule ; and they appeal to the pope ( although s. francis had declared there should be no glosses made upon it ; and that they should not obtain letters from the pope ) upon which pop● gregery the ninth published a bull , declaring , that they were not bound to admit of no glosses ( what! although christ himself in person declared that none should be made ! from whence it is plain , that either the pope in terms contrad●cts christ , or he must look on all that pretence of christs appearance , as an idle story only made to amuse the friers ) and withal adds several glosses for explication of the said rule . and the kind pope adds , that , although he believed s. francis to have had a pious intention in his former command ; yet , without the least regard to any divine inspiration , he declares that they were not at all bound by it ; and gives these substantial reasons for it , because his testament could not oblige , without the consent of the superiours and brethren of the order ; neither had he power to oblige his successor . what becomes of the divine revelation all this while ? but the main thing which troubled the franciscans was , that they found their order could not subsist without having some things belonging to them , as utensils , books and other moveables , and some among them said , the property of these things belonged to the order in common ; the subtle pope found out an excellent gloss for this , viz. that they should keep to their rule , to have no property either in special or incommon ; but they should have the use of them ; only the dominion and property should be reserved to those to whom it did belong ; and that nothing should be sold , exchanged , or alienated without the authority and consent of the cardinal protector of the order . by which , the pope ( supposing the donors not to reserve the property to themselves ) entitles himself and all his successors to the dominion and property of all houses and goods belonging to the whole order ; which was not only a salvo for their consciences , but a su●e way to keep them alwayes in subjection to the papal see. and from hence the popes have taken upon them the management of their affairs , by syndics and procurators impowred by them , as appears by several bulls of martin the fourth , and fifth , eugenius the fourth , sixtus the fourth , and others . and this same pope gregory the ninth takes to the apostolical see the right and property of the church of assisium , which was magnificently built by the contributions procured by elias while he was general of the order ; and by vertue of his apostolical power declares the church to be wholly free and subject immediately to the roman see. this favour of the popes , and sudden multiplication of this order , and the manner of their living , gave a very great jealousie to the secular clergy in all parts ; for notwithstanding this high pretence to poverty , they knew that so many men must be maintained out of the church , one way or other , and although it were under the pretence of an eleemosynarie maintenance , yet they undertaking the office of preaching , and hearing confessions , and having no titles , could not subsist without manifest encroaching on the rights of the clergy . and so it was found and complained of in all parts , but to little purpose ; the popes for good ends of their own , resolving to carry them through in spight of the bishops and clergy . for this pu●pose they were forced to be still writing bulls in their behalf ; ninety seven bulls are printed together of this one pope by their annalist with a respect to their order , ( besides many extant in the annals themselves ) of which several of them are to the bishops of italy , spain , france , and other parts , not to molest this new order . for as their annalist saith , about this time their fame spreading abroad , the people gave liberally to them , and built them houses and stately churches with rich ●rnaments ( only to shew the perfection of their poverty ) and finished them with all manner of conveniences for their subsistence ; which drew the envy and hatred of the bishops and parochial clergy upon them : and the whole controversie between them was , whether these independent friers should gather congregations to themselves or no , and therein perform all divine offices , and receive the oblations of the people without any subjection to the bishops ? and in this dispute , the pope took part with the friers , and published two bulls in their behalf to all bishops , extant in the decretals , enjoyning them to forbear giving any disturbance to the friers in those matters . and now the sublimity of their poverty began to shew it self in the height and stateliness of their fabricks ; if any one would see the habitation of poverty , he may read the description their annalist gives of their convent at paris and the church belonging to it ; and he will imagine ( so much is the world altered ) that poverty did vye with solomon himself , as to the glory both of his temple and palace . there were some in those days who were not subtle enough to reconcile these things with perfect poverty , and thought a lower degree of it might have served the francisca●s as it did other friers ; but notwithstanding these glorious fabricks did not look very like the poor cottages s. francis enjoyned them , nothing would content these men but the very sublimity of poverty . richardus armachanus in his sermons at pauls cross against the friers , saith , they were so far from the poverty they pretended to , that he thought them bound in con●cience to give in charity to others out of their superfluiti●s . for , saith he , these men who call themselves beggers , have houses like kings palaces , fishponds larger than earles have , churches more costly than cathedrals , more rich and noble ornaments than all the bishops of the world ; his holiness only excepted . but it cost him dear ●or not being able to reconcile these things with perfect poverty : for after many years trouble occasioned by the friers he died at avignon . the plain country-man in chaucer asks the frier a great many untoward questions concerning their order , which i doubt the wisest of their order will not easily answer ; as freer , how many orders be on earth , and which is the perfectest order ? is there any perfecter rule than christ himself made ? if christs rule be most perfect , why rulest thou thée not thereafter ? why shall a fréer be more punished for breaking the rule that his patron made , than if he break the hests that god himself made ? if your order be perfect why get you your dispensations to make it easie ? certes , either it séemeth , that ye be unperfect , or he that made it so hard that he may not hold it . and siker if ye hold not the rule of your patrons , ye be not then their fréers , and so ye lye upon your selves . why make you as dede men when ye be professed , and yet be not dead but more quick beggers than you were before ? and it séemeth evil a dede man to go about and beg . why make yée you so costly houses to dwell in ? sith christ did not so , and dede men should have but graves , as falleth it to dede men , and yet ye have more courts than many lords of england : for ye now wenden through the realm , and ech night will lig in your own courts , and so mow but few right lords do . why be not under your bishops visitation , and léege men to our king ? why make yée men believe that your golden trental sung of you to take therefore ten shillings , or at least five shillings , woll bring souls out of hell or out of purgatory ? if this be sooth , certes yée might bring all the souls out of paine , and that woll ye nought , and then yée be out of charity . why make ye men believe , that he that is buried in your habit , shall never come in hell , and ye wéet not of your self whether ye shall to hell or no ? if this were sooth ye should sell your high houses to make many habits for to save many mens souls . why covet ye shrift and burying of other mens parishens , and none other sacrament that falleth to christian folk ? why busie ye not to hear to shrift of poor folk as well as of lords and ladies , sith they may have more plenty of shrift fathers than poor folk mow ? why covet you not to bury poor folk among you ? sith they béen most holy , ( as ye sayn that ye béen for your poverty . ) fréer , when thou receivest a penie for to say a mass , whether sellest thou gods body for that penie , or thy prayer , or else thy travel ? if thou saiest thou wilt not travel for to say the mass , but for the penie , that certes if this be sooth , then thou lovest too little méed for thy soul : and if thou sellest gods body , other thy prayer , then it is very simonie , and art become a chapman worse than judas , that sold it for thirty pence . why bearest thou god in hand and slanderst him that he begged for his meat ? sith he was lord over all , for then had he béen unwise to have begged , and have no néed thereto . fréer , after what law rulest thou thée ? where findest thou in gods law , that thou shouldst thus beg ? what manner men néedeth for to beg ? for whom oweth such men to beg ? why beggest thou so for thy brethren ? if thou saiest , for they have néed , then thou dost it for the more perfection , or else for the least , or else for the meane . if it be the most perfection of all , then should all thy brethren do so , and then no man néeded to beg but for himself , for so should no man beg but him néeded and if it be the least perfection , why lovest thou then other men more than thy self ? for so thou art not well in charity , sith thou shouldst séek the more perfection after thy power living thy self most after god. and thus leaving that imperfection thou shouldst not so beg for them . and if it is a good mean thus to ●eg as thou dost , then should no man do so , but they béen this good mean , and yet such a mean granted by you can never be grounded on gods law , for then both lerid and leard that ben in mean degrée of this world should go about and beg as you do . and if all should do , certes well nigh all the world should go about and heg as ye done , and so should there be ten beggers against one yever . why wilt thou not beg for poor bedred men , that ben poorer than any of your sect , that liggen and mow not go about to help himselfes , sith we be all brethren in god , and that bretherhed passeth any other that ye or any man could make , and where most néed were , there were most perfection , either else ye hold them not your pure brethren , but worse , but then ye he unperfect in your begging ? whos 's ben all your rich courts that ye han , and all your rich iewels ? sith ye séen that ye han nought ne in proper , ne in common . if ye sain they ben the popes , why gather ye then of poor men and lords and so much out of the kings hand to make your pope rich ? and sith ye sain that it is great perfection to have nought in proper ne in common , why be ye so fast about to make the pope that is your father rich , and put on him imperfection ? sithen ye saine that your goods ben all his , and ye should by reason be the most perfect man , it séemeth openlich that ye ben cursid children so to slander your father and make him imperfect . and if ye sain that the goods be yours then do ye ayenst your rule ; and if it be not ayenst your rule , then might ye have both plow and cart and labour as other good men done , and not so beg by cosengery and idle as ye done . if ye say that it is more perfection to beg , than to travel or to work with your hand , why preach ye not openly and teach all men to do so ? sith it is the best and most perfect life to the help of their fouls , as ye make children to beg that might have béen rich heirs . why hold ye not s. francis his rule and his testament ? sith francis saith , that god shewed him this living & this rule ; & certes if it were gods will , the pope might not fore do it ; or else francis was a lier that said in this wise . why will ye not touch no coined money with the cross , ne with the kings head , as ye done other iewels both of gold and silver ? certes , if ye despise the cross of the kings head , then ye be worthy to be despised of god and the king : and sith ye will receive money in your hearts and not with your hands , it séemeth that ye hold more holiness in your hands than in your hearts , and then be false to god. why have yée exempt you from our king's laws , and visiting of our bishops , more than other christian men that liven in this realm , if ye be not guilty of traitorie to our realm , or trespas●es to your bishops ? fréer , what charity is this , to the people to lie , and say that ye follow christ in poverty more than other men done ? and yet in curious and costly housing , and fine and precious clothing , and delicious and liking féeding , and in treasure and jewels , and rich ornaments , fréers passen lords , and other rich worldly men , and soonest they should bring their cause about ( be it never so costly ) though gods law be put a back . fréer , what charity is this to prease upon a rich man , and to entice him to be buried among you from his parish church , and to such rich men give letters of fraternity confirmed by your general seal , and thereby to bear him in hand that he shall have part of all your masses , mattens , preachings , fastings , wakings , and all other good déeds done by your brethren of your order ( both whilest he liveth and after that he is dead ) and yet ye witten never whether your déeds be acceptable to god , ne whether that man that hath that letter , be able by good living to receive any part of your déeds ; and yet a poor man ( that ye wite well or supposen in certain to have no good of ) ye ne given to such letters , though he be a better man to god than such a rich man ; nevertheless this poor man doth not retch thereof . for as men supposen , such letters and many others that fréers behoten to men , be full false deceits of freers out of all reason , and gods law and christian mens faith . freer , what charity is this , to be confessors of lords and ladies , and to other mighty men and not amend hem in their living ? but rather as it seemeth to be bolder to pill their poor tenants and to live in lechery ; and there to dwell in your office of confessor for winning of worldly goods , and to be bold great by colour of such ghostly offices ? this seemeth rather pride of freers , than charitie of god. fréer , what charity is this , to sain that who so liveth after your order liveth most perfectly , and next followeth the state of apostles in povertie and penance , and yet the wisest and greatest clerks of you wend or send , or procure to the court of rome to be made cardinals , or bishops , or the popes chapleins , and to be assoiled of the vow of poverty , and obedience to your ministers , in which ( as ye sain ) standeth most perfection and merit of your orders , and thus ye faren as pharisées , that sain one and do another to the contrary . fréer , was s. francis in making that rule he set thine order in , a fool and a liar or else wise and true ? if ye sain that he was not a fool but wise , ne a liar but true : why shew ye contrary to your doing , when by your suggestion to the pope ye said , that your rule that francis made was so hard , that ye mow not live to hold it without declaracion and dispensation of the pope , and so by your déed ? ne let your patron a fool that made a rule so hard that no man may well kéep , and eke your déed proveth him a lier , where be saith in his rule that he took and learned it of the holy ghost . for how might ye for shame pray the pope undo that the holy ghost bit , as when ye prayed him to dispense with the hardness of your order ? fréer , is there any perfecter rule of religion than christ gods son gave in his gospel to his brethren ? or than that religion that s. james in his epistle maketh mention , of ? if you say yes , then puttest thou on christ ( that is the wisdom of god the father ) unkunning , unpower , or evil will. for then he could not make his rule so good as another did his , and so he had be unkunning ; or that he might not make his rule so good as another man might , and so were he unmighty ; or he would not make his rule so perfect , as another did his , and so he had béen evil willed . for if he might and could and would have made a rule perfect without default and did not , he was not gods son almighty . for if any other rule be perfecter than christs , then must christs rule lack of that perfection , and so were default and christ had failed in making of his rule , but to put any default or failing in god is blasphemie . if thou say that christs rule and that religion s. james maketh mention of , is perfectest ; why holdest thou not thilk rule without more ? and why clepest thou the rather of s. francis , or s. dominicks rule or religion or order , than of christs rule , or christs order ? fréer , canst thou any default assigne in christs rule of the gospell , with the which he taught all men sickerly to be saded , if they kept it to their ending ? if thou say it was too hard , then saiest thou christ lied , for he said of his rule , my yoke is soft and my burden light . if thou say christs rule was too light , that may be assigned for no default , for the better it may be kept . if thou saiest , there is no default in christs rule of the gospel , sith christ himself saith it is light and easie : what néed was it for patrons of friers to adde more thereto ? and so make an harder religion to save fréers , than was the religion of christs apostles and his disciples helden and were saved by ? but if they woulden that their fréers saten above the apostles in heaven for the harder religion that they kéepen here , so would they sitten in heaven above ch●ist himself for their more and strict observations , then so should they be better than christ himself . in these questions , ( besides several others extant in chauctr ) we have the hypocrisie and fraud of these mendicant friers fully set forth by a person who lived among them in the time of their greatest flourishing here in england : which hypocrisie of theirs in the pretence of poverty is attested by our historians . walsingham saith , that they offered the pope at one time , for a dispensation to break their rule , as to the liberty of enjoying rents and lands , florens of gold and much more money . the pope asked them , where their money was ? they told him , in the merchants hands ; the cunning pope pretended to take three dayes time to consider of it , in the mean time he sends for the merchants , absolves them from their obligation to the friers , and charges them under pain of an anathema , to pay the money into his treasury ; and then tells the friers , he would not have them to break their rule ; by which they were bound to touch no money . and so , saith he , what they had unjustly gotten , was justly taken away . i know no reason they could have to complain of any injustice in the pope , since they declare the property and dominion of what they enjoyed was in the apostolical see. and it were pitty the pope should have nothing but a meer name and title . matthew westminster , from whom walsingham took not only the story but most of the very words of it , saith it was quadringenta millia and not quadraginta as it is in walsingham , florens of gold and much more , to have the liberty to receive lands and revenews ; expresly against their rule and solemn vow of perfect poverty . matthew paris describes their frauds as to the parochial priests and other convents , their flatteries and insinuations into great men ; and adds , that they were so excellently skilled in the arts of getting money , that the pope made choice of them above others to be his collectors , both here and in other countries ; in so much , he saith , that the pope made them instead of fishers of men , fishers of money . so much had they kept to their rule in s. francis his sense , i e. to the meer letter of it ; for no men were more skilful in the getting of money , than they were ; if they did but keep themselves from fingering of it , they thought , they observed that part of his rule at least , whatever became of their perfect poverty . which he sets forth , when he saith , that within years after their first coming into england , their mansion houses were like royal palaces , wherein they had unvaluable treasures , most impudently transgressing the rules of poverty , which was the foundation of their profession . and then describes their hanging about great and rich mens beds when they lay a dying , in hopes of a prey ; their drawing people to confess to them , their obtaining private testaments , their commending their own order , and discommending all others to that degree , that the people commonly believed they could not be saved unless they were ruled by the mendicant friers . nay they were so busie not only to get priviledges , but to insinuate themselves into courts and great families , that no businesses almost were managed without them , either relating to money or marriages : with much more to the same purpose in him ; and if we believe the concurrent testimony of these historians , there were never greater hypocrites known , since the pharisees , and before the jesuits , than these pretenders to perfect poverty : who hated that in their hearts to which they made the greatest shew of love. we may perceive by chaucer what wayes they had of wheadling great persons into an opinion how much better it was to be buried among them , than any where else ; the bishops saw well enough what all this was designed for , viz. to have the profits of burials ; and therefore in behalf of the parochial clergy they opposed it as long as they durst ; but pope innocent . declared , their churches to be conventual , and then to have liberty of burying in them ; which they made good use of , both here and in other places , to their great advantage . so that , what by the favour of great persons , whom they flattered to become their confessors ; what by their masses , and extraordinary offices ; what by burials , and the charitable benevolence of well disposed persons to them ; they made a good shift to keep themselves a good way out of the reach of the perfection of poverty ; while in the mean time they pretended to nothing more than that . but they found more comfort in their own purse-opening way , than the parochial clergy did in their setled maintenance ; they having found out the knack of pleasing those humours in persons that had the greatest command of their purses : but besides these wayes , when the charity of particular persons began to coole towards them , they had a certain rate upon houses which they lived upon , which sancta clara confesses , and saith , it was easie for the people , and abundantly sufficient for them . so that laying all these wayes together , although they had sworn so much affection to perfect poverty ; and professed to love and admire it above all things ; yet they endeavoured with all their care and diligence to keep it from coming within their doors . § . . but all this would not satisfie them , for the conventual friers were never quiet , till , for the greater height of their poverty , they procured leave from the pope that they might enjoy lands and possessions as well as others : so much is confessed by their martyrologist , and the defender of their order against bzovius : upon this a new reformation began among them , first by paulutius ▪ fulginas , but very little regard was had to it , till bernardinus senensis appeared in the head of it , and then it spread very much ; these were called fratres de observantiâ from their strict observance of s. francis his rule ; and many and great differences happened between them , which it hath cost the papal see some trouble to compose : which were so high that leo . in the preface to the bull of union , declares that almost all the princes in christendom had interceded with him to end the controversie between these two sorts of beggers , viz. those who had good lands and revenues ; and others , that had rich houses and furniture and other conveniences , but had no endowments . for this same pope declared , that these strict observantines might enjoy the most magnificent houses and costly furniture without any diminution to the perfection of their poverty , because the right and property of them was not in themselves , but in the papal see : but i cannot understand why the same reason should not hold for lands too , supposing the same right and property to be in the popes ; for it cannot enter into my head , that a man is a jot the poorer because his estate lyes in goods and iewels , and not in lands ; or why this may not be in trustees hands as well as the other . indeed that was the solemn cheat in all this affair , that how rich soever really this order of mendicants was ; yet , forsooth they had nothing at all to live upon but the alms of the people , for they had vowed the very height of poverty . why , saith a plain countrey man ▪ that is not well skilled in metaphysicks ; the beggars in our countrey do not live in such stately houses , and have no such rich ornaments nor feed so well , nor are so well provided for as you are : we that have land of our own , would be glad to have all things found us at so cheap a rate . do you think that riches lyes only in trouble and care and hard labour ? if that be it i confess you are poor enough : but in no other sense that i see . alas poor man , saith the good frier , we are as poor as iob for all this . now that cannot i understand for my heart , saith the other ; surely you call things only by other names than we do : and make that poverty that we plain men call riches . well , saith the frier , i will shew my charity to your understanding in helping of that , if you will shew yours to us poor friers ; therefore you must know that although we have the full use and possession for our benefit in the things you see , yet pope nicholas . in the bull exiit , and pope clement . in the bull exivi de paradiso , hath declared that we have no propriety and dominion in them , but that is reserved to the papal see : so that we enjoy all things but have right to nothing . say you so , saith the countrey man , then i believe you come within the compass of the statutes against vagabonds and sturdy beggars , for you live upon that which is none of your own , and refuse to work. tush , saith the frier , that is an heretical statute , and we defie q. elizabeth and all her works ; as long as the pope hath declared us to be poor , we are so and will be so , although we had ten times as much as we have : for our holy father the pope can change not only the names but the natures of things ; nay i will tell you farther , if we had as much wealth as the king of spain in the indies , if we had only the possession , and the supreme right or dominion were declared to be in the pope , we were in perfect poverty for all this . i cry you mercy sir , replyes the countrey man ; i beseech you intercede with his holiness to make me one of his beads-men ; for i perceive poverty , as he makes it , is better than all my lands that i have the fee-simple of : but i pray think of a better way to keep me out of the reach of the statute ; for if i have no manner of right to what i enjoy , i may be endited next sessions for all that i know ; if i have any right to it , then i have a property ; and if i have a property , how can i swear that i have none , and will have none , neither in my self , nor in common with others ? come , come , saith the frier , these are things too high for you ; it is enough for us , that have had scotus of our order , to be able to explain these things . and yet pope iohn . could understand these subtilties no more than a plain countrey man ; for he declares the distinction of property and use , as it was applyed by the franciscans from the bull of nicolas . to be meer fraud and hypocrisie . for which we are to consider , that among the articles objected against one of the beguini by the dominican inquisitor at narbon , a. d. . this was one , that christ and his apostles following the way of perfection , had no right of property and dominion in any thing either in special or in common : which berengarius a franciscan being present , utterly denyed to contain any erroneous doctrine ; but said , it was a very good catholick opinion , and expresly grounded on pope nich. . his bull exiit : upon which an appeal was made to the pope and cardinals ; the pope to proceed with the greater satisfaction in this weighty affair , sends abroad to universities and learned men to know their opinion herein ; and because nich. . had pronounced an anathema against those that should take upon them to interpret or debate the bull exiit , he takes off this anathema , and gives all men free leave to deliver their judgements . in the mean time , the franciscans finding the perfection of their order called in question ▪ and suspecting the popes ill-will towards them ; they met together at perusium ; and published their sentence to all christian people , that the foresaid article was sound and catholick , because it had been approved be the apostolical see. the pope being throughly netled at this and other carriages of theirs in the controversie between him and the emperour , and at the insolent behaviour of frier bonagratias , who was sent from the general chapter to the pope , declared their letter to be heretical , and their order to be founded in heresie ; as raynaldus shews from a letter of michael caesenas then general of the order , extant in the vatican library : and finding , saith raynaldus , that the franciscans under the pretence of apostolical poverty did heap up riches to themselves , which they would have the world to believe did not contradict their vow and rule , because the dominion and property was reserved to the papal see , he published the bull , ad conditorem ; in which he fully sets forth the hypocrisie of the franciscans in pretending to the perfection of poverty upon this reservation of the right of property and dominion to the apostolical see : for , saith he , the perfection of a christian life , lyes principally in charity , which the apostle calls the bond of perfection ; which the contempt of worldly things did only prepare men for , by taking off that solicitude which the care of worldly affairs did carry along with it : but where the same solicitude continues , there expropriation , as he calls it , can add nothing to perfection . but , saith he , it is notorious that the franciscans , after the said reservation of property to the popes , were rather more than less solicitous about the procuring and keeping of worldly things , both by suits at law , and otherwise . and under the pretence of this reservation , they have unreasonably boasted of the perfection of their poverty ; because they have the bare use of things without property or dominion . but if they would attend to things rather than bare words , and submit to truth ; they would find , that they had much more than the bare use , having the liberty to sell , exchange or give away . and in things consumed by use , to separate the property from the use , is repugnant both to law and reason : and such a reserved dominion is not real but verbal , and a meer fiction : but supposing there could be a bare use , yet it could not be given the property reserved ; because there can be no difference , between such a bare use , and the full dominion . this and much more is contained in the popes bull , which fully manifests that all this pretence of poverty was a meer iuggle ; and fit only to deceive the simple . for in things necessary to life it is impossible to part with the property and dominion of them ; and in other things , it is great hypocrisie to pretend poverty under the greatest plenty , meerly because a titular dominion is reserved to another person . for as augerius the provincial of the carmelites said truly upon this occasion , the perfection of poverty doth not lye so much in the title , as in the use of things ; viz. such as tends to abate the motions of the flesh and swellings of the mind ; which he did not understand how it could be attained , by a plentiful use , supposing it could be without property or dominion . but notwithstanding this bull of iohn . and the great truth and reason contained in it , the franciscans still went on with the same hypocrisie ; and they obtained that favour of following ●opes to recall the bull , ad conditorem , ( which surely needed not to have been done in case nichol. . and he had not differed , as bellarmin and others would fain make the world believe ) which was expresly done by martin . in the bull amabilis fructus , which was confirmed by eugenius . calixtus . nicol. . pius . paul . sixtus . alexander . and leo . who all proceed upon the same solemn foppery , that the franciscans had the perfection of poverty , because the dominion and property of their houses , goods and estates was not in themselves but in the papal see. i might farther have shewn the hypocrisie of this pretence of poverty , from the resolutions of their casuists in this matter , and the frivolous subtilty of their distinctions to salve mens consciences ; but this is sufficient to my present purpose , to shew how vain and foolish the pretence to perfection was in this mendicant way , which is fully confuted ( supposing it to have been what it preten●ed ) by that one saying of our saviour , it is a more blessed thing to give , than to receive . § . . hitherto the perfection of a christian life , was sup●osed to lye in abstraction from the world , and poverty , and diligence in the publick performance of the ecclesiastical office ; but these latter ages of the world have produced an order of a very different nature from all before it , but yet pretending to divine inspiration in the settlement of it : and that is the order of iesuites . 〈◊〉 the monks having lost their reputation by laziness , and the friers by their hypocrisie ; and their churches affairs requiring an order busie and active : it was necessary that a new one should be advanced upon other pretences than the foregoing . and the iesuits very well understanding , how much all the former pretences were seen through ; and yet how necessary it was in some things to seem to comply with them , they pitched upon such a model of their own , which took in what seemed most for their advantage ; and yet proposed such an end of their society as seemed to advance it above all before it . for as ribadineira well argues in their behalf , the perfection of any society is to be taken from the end of it ; now the end of their society they pretended to be charity and edification , which was in it self more excellent than any of the former religious orders . and that which other orders accounted their perfection , they expressed very little regard to : which was either , . the constant performance of the ecclesiastical office. . corporal austerities . . a contemplative life . . the solemn vows . as to every one of these the iesuits have done our work for us , and have shewed that the perfection of a christian state doth not ●ye in any of them . . not , in attendance on the performance of the ecclesiastical office ; for by the popes bulls and constitutions of their society they are excused from having any choire , or from saying their canonical office in publick , although they be priests ; and this is declared by the popes at the same time , when they declare that this order was begun by the inspiration of the holy ghost ; as appears by the bulls of paul . and iulius . and after the council of trent gregory . confirmed the same priviledge to them , that they might the better attend to their studying , reading and preaching ; which ribadineira and pallavacini shew to have more excellency and perfection in it , than attendance on the choire : which they not only prove from a council under gregory the great , but from the practice of other religious orders , which excuse their professors and preachers , as being imployed about a nobler work . and thomas hurtado quotes an expression of a iesuite , wherein he commends their order above any other , because they have more regard to preaching and other duties , than the office of the choire , which saith he ▪ is a publick affront to all orders both of monks and friers : and another expression of valentia , worse than the former , viz. chorus ad ineptos ; viz. that such a constant attendance on the offices of the choire so often day and night , wherein the monastick orders placed so much of the perfection of their lives , was for those that were good for nothing else : and oliver bonarte doth imply , that the canonical offices were intended to keep the monks from idleness . how very much different is this from the opinion of those who place the perfection of the monastick life in this constancy of their publick devotion ? . not , in corporal austerities . for they have no rule at all by the bulls and constitutions of their order , requiring any of these , as to diet , or habit , or chastising themselves ; but they are left to the private discretion of particular persons ; yet ribadineira saith , they do not despise those that use them ; which i cannot easily believe , if any credit may be given to the letter of the jesuit barisonius which hath been several times printed ; bearing date from bononia april . . wherein among other things , which he highly commends their society for above any other religious order , this is one , that they do not require those severities in diet , habit , or lodging , which not only afflict the body , but weaken mens spirits , and dull their understandings . and card. pallavacini in his defence of the society , chiefly against the objections of other orders , doth not only confess , that they do not require those rigours and severities either in diet , or other wayes , which others pretend to , but that the moderate way they proceed in is much more convenient and agreeable to the design of a religious society . and because the chief employments of the society require sharpness of wit , which according to aristotle is joyned with a more delicate temper of body , which is easily put out of order with hard usage , therefore he looks upon the use of such hardships , as very contrary to their main intention , because they weaken both the body and mind together . all the office of vertue as to these things , he saith , is to retrench all extravagancies , and such things which rather provoke than satisfie the appetite ; and an ability to endure hardships is rather an effect of nature than grace : and the perfection of a porter , and not of a christian . . not , in a contemplative life . for they undertake to prove , that the works of charity , which their society is chiefly designed for , viz. preaching , administring sacraments , teaching youth , &c. are more excellent than a life of contemplation . on this account iulius nigronus at large proves the greater excellency of their order than of any other : which the franciscan martyrologist will by no means allow to the iesuits . and that , which the iesuits boast the most of , viz. their fourth vo● of obedience to the pope , about missions ; he contends that their order was under that vow in a more eminent manner long before them , as he proves from bonaventure , and others . which is a thing i am willing to leave them to contend about . . not , in the solemn vows . for the iesuits have found out a notable device of a simple vow : by which they understand such a vow as binds men no longer than the society thinks fit . gregory . in his bull of confirmation , declares , that after the two years novitiate are over , those who will remain in the society must take the three substantial vows , but only simple , and not solemn , after which they are incorporated into the society ; notwithstanding which the general of the order upon a cause which he shall judge reasonable may dismiss them ; and absolve them from all obligation of their vows . whereas before the perfection of the monastick state was supposed to lye in the perpetual obligation of the three vows ; and none were accounted of a religious order , that had not taken upon them solemn vows , ( notwithstanding which gregory . immediately before this , mentions the divine instinct by which ignatius did make these constitutions of his order ) and after adds , that those who are only under these simple vows , are as much partakers of all the merits ( which no doubt are very great ) and priviledges of the order , as those who are professed ; and as truly religious as they , and liable to the punishment of apostates , if they depart without leave ; which the same pope confirms by another constitution ( this simple vow not being so easily digested by other orders , and being thought repugnant to the very constitution of a religious order ) but there was a mysterie in this simple vow , not so easily apprehended by such whose brains were too much mortified by penances ; for notwithstanding they had obtained so much favour from pope pius . to pass among the mendicant orders , ( because their domus professae have no endowments , though their colleges have , ) that they might enjoy the great priviledges belonging to them : yet they took as much care as could be taken to prevent any such scandal as that of poverty falling upon their society . but this was not to be done after the dull way of the hypocrisie of the mendicant friers ; but they found out finer and subtiler devices of their own : to this end , they made the distinction of the colleges and domus professae ; the former were capable of the richest endowments , wherein they took care for the education of youth ; in the other were only professed iesuites who had taken the solemn vows ; and were imployed in preaching , writing , sacraments , &c. now these were to be without endowments to excite the freer benevolence of the people ; but yet supposing their charity should cool , the endowments of the colleges were to be in the hands of the praepositus and the society ; who would be sure not to suffer their chief men to want . and they have so very few of these , that card. pallavacini saith , that there are but about thirty of them belonging to the whole society : whereas he confesses , that there were about persons of their society . but besides many other artifices made use of by them to draw the kindness of the great ones to them ( for they little regard any other ; and barisonius saith , some of the mendicants had so exposed themselves by selling masses at so low a rate , that there was a necessity of reforming if not of utterly destroying the whole order ) the iesuits reserved this way of improving the stock of the society , by the mysterie of the simple vows : viz. that those who are under them may possess estates , which they cannot under the solemn vows ; ( notwithstanding that one of these vows is that of poverty , and that in the first year of novitiate , they are to renounce all temporal goods not only which they have at present , but may have hereafter ) by this means , they can not only discharge themselves of unprofitable members without any burden to the society ; but in case any inheritance chance to fall to any under the simple vow , they put in a fair claim to it ; for he is declared capable to inherit , and yet he hath parted with his right to the society when he became a member of it : and if it cannot be done any other way , they release him of his simple vow , and leave the rest to his ingenuity . this is a fetch somewhat above the fat hearts of the monks , or the more gross hypocrisie of the friers ; but i think is far enough from perswading any man that the constitutions of this order came from the inspiration of the holy ghost . § . . the only society remaining in the roman church , of any name , which puts in claim to divine inspiration in the founders of it , is that of the oratorians : so the preface to the constitutions of the congregation of the oratory , saith , that philip nerius was wont to say , that not he , but god himself was the author of it . the beginning of this congregation was laid by nerius in private meetings in his chamber a. d. . which afterwards proving too little for his company , he removed to a room over the church of s. hierom ; where caesar baronius , franciscus taurusius , and others of his disciples , though not in orders , did hold forth to the people : by which means , so great a number flocked to them , that nerius was accused for keeping conventicles before the ecclesiastical iudge ; but notwithstanding the severe rebukes he received from him , they did not give over the exercises of the oratory ; and at last obtained leave to continue them . he was so used to ecstasies and raptures , that gallonius saith , it was easier for him to fall into one of them , than for another person to think of worldly matters ; and that to avoid them , he was forced to divert his mind from divine thoughts . a. d. ● . he laid the foundation of his congregation , and made some orders for the government of it ; and besides the daily exercises at the oratory , baronius and bordinus preached on sundayes in the florentines church ; every day of the week , saturday only excepted , four of the fathers in their course made plain discourses to the people for half an hour a piece , the first two were moral , and the latter relating to ecclesiastical history and the lives of the saints ; which part nerius afterwards allotted to baronius , from whence he took the occasion of writing his annals ; but barnabeus saith withal , that nerius had much ado to keep baronius from embracing one of the severest religious orders , till constantius tassonus pretending divine inspiration , told him , god had not called him to it . a. d. . gregory the thirteenth gave them his bull for settling the congregation of the oratory in the church of s. maria in vall●cell● ; with the parochial charge belonging to it ; and in imitation of this , others were set up at naples and several other places of italy . philip nerius being made president of the congregation sets himself to the framing the constitutions of it ; in the first place , he declared it to be his mind , that none who were , or should be of that order should enter into any vows at all ; and that if any had a mind to make solemn vows , they should leave the congregation , and betake themselves to some religious orders ; for be designed those of his society should be thought religious only by the good example of their lives , and their diligence in preaching : and that the manner of living among them should be in a mean between the licentiousness of the world , and the austerities of the religious orders . among the constitutions of the oratory , this is one , that in case the major part should consent to the bringing vows , oaths , or solemn promises among them , they may have the liberty to go to what religious order they please , but the lesser part is to enjoy all the endowments of the congregation , as long as they continue in that liberty wherein the congregation was first setled : which constitution was approved by paul the fifth . and in his time in imitation of this at rome a new congregation of the oratory was set up at paris without any vows , and with a full liberty of the members of it as to the disposal of their estates ; so as they obtain no right ▪ they lose none by being of the congregation , and pretend to no priviledges or exemptions from the jurisdiction of the bishops ; but profess to live , as much as any other clergy-men , in subjection to them ; which congregation by the encouragement of the bishops hath spread very much in france in a little time , being brought in by peter de berulle a. d. . and before his death a. d. . the sammarthani say , that the congregation of the oratory was diffused almost over all france : and i do not question it found the greater favour from the bishops , because its constitution is so repugnant to that of the religious orders ; which place their greatest perfection in those solemn vows , which the oratorians make nothing of . and thus we have brought the pretence of divine inspiration so far , that we have seen those things despised and rejected by it in the roman church , wherein the perfection of the monastick state was placed by the first founders of it ; which is certainly sufficient to discover that this pretence must be counterfeit in some or other of these ; and according to cardinal bona's rule in such cases , we have reason enough from hence to suspect them all . chap. iv. of the conversion of england , and the difference between the brittish and saxon christians . § . . mr. cressy in the heat of his zeal for the honour of s. benedict , would make the vindication of him to be not barely the duty of those of his own order , but the common concernment of the whole nation : and i cannot blame him , considering the weakness of his cause , that he calls in so many to his assistance . he had a mind to engage the whole western patriarchate against me , but being somewhat fearful lest that should not obey his command , and rise like one man for the honor of the founder of his order , he summons the arrierban of the english nation , as most especially concerned in the quarrel . if mr. cressy's rhetorick had been equal to his passion , and if his own rage could have enflamed a nation , what cause should i have had to repent the attempt of eclipsing the glory of his order , by charging fanaticism on the founder of it ? but he comforts himself with the hopes that scarce any one hereafter will be willing to imitate my malignant ingratitude : malignant ingratitude ! me●hinks it sounds very well ; especially in the same chapter , wherein he calls me theological scarron , a man of poysonous hatred not only against the church-catholick militant , but tri●●phant too ; than whom he does not know any adversasary , that could with all his study , have shewed himself more imp●tent in his passions and less successful in reasoning . and after such obliging kindnesses as these , had he not just reason to charge me with malignant ingratitude ? which being the utmost and most comprehensive terms of reproach , put me in some ●opes , that he hath brought up all that which lay so uneasie at the very bottom of his stomach : and now i shall reason the case with him ; and in truth i do not find the charge of ingratitude laid upon me , any further than as i am a native of england , in which he saith christianity was established by the disciples of s. benedict : which being expressed in such large and general terms , gave just occasion to the person of honour to tell him , that christianity was planted with us many hundred years before the birth of s. benedict ; and that we may reasonably believe that it was sooner planted in britain , than it was at rome it self , since the last year of tiberius was before s. peters coming to rome . therefore mr. cressy craves leave to explain himself by saying , that he did not speak it of the planting christianity in our island ; but he saith , that which he said was ( not by his favour that which he said , for he said no such thing ; but that which he now tells us he meant by what he said , was ) that england , or the countrey and nation of the english saxons who drove the christian britains out of our part of the island , was indeed converted by the ●isciples of s. benedict : and this , he saith , truly he must stand to . some would be glad to meet with any thing , which a man of so uncertain a humour as he hath been , will at last stand to ; but the only reason is , because he must ; i. e. because he is a benedictin ; and therefore must believe and defend any thing that makes for the credit of his 〈◊〉 . it is very unhappy to mr. cressy that when he had truth and reason on his side he could not stand to it then ; but there are some troublesome insects , which fly up and down and make a great noise buzzing in the air , and never stand to it till they at last fall into the most filthy places . but since mr. cressy thinks this a great aggravation of my crime , and is so resolved to stand to it , i shall try whether he be not capable of being shocked even in this fundamental point of the honour belonging to the english benedictin order . if then , it cannot be proved , either that christianity was first brought among the english saxons by the benedictins ; or if it were , that it was established in england by their means , then all the reason mr. cressy will have left to stand to this assertion will be only , because he must . § . . i begin with the first bringing of christianity among the english saxons ; and notwithstanding that the ecclesiastical history of those times , is for the most part delivered by saxon monks , who had alwayes a kindness for the roman missionaries , and very little for the brittish bishops ( as may be easily discerned even in bede himself ) yet by laying several circumstances together , we may make it appear that augustin and his companions were not the first who brought the knowledge of christianity among the english saxons . the first settlement we find the saxons made in this nation , ( for no account of their religion is to be expected before ) was after the famous victory of aurelius ambrosius , wherein hengist was defeated ; and afterwards his son occa , eosa and the rest of the saxons in those parts submitted themselves to mercy ; upon which ambrosius gave them a countrey near scotland , and entred into a league with them : which saith matthew westminster happened a. d. . wherein he followed the brittish historians ; for the saxon generally omit any victories of the brittish forces , and this particularly : yet william of malmsbury , who relates it somewhat differently , saith , that hengist sent occa and ebusa into the northern parts , who having conquered those which opposed them , they brought the rest to a voluntary submission . so that here we find the brittains and saxons united together so early under the saxon government , which according to the computation of henry of huntingdon , was but forty years from the saxons first coming in england ; and that these britains continued a long time in these northern parts , appears not only by the name of cumberland ( for camden shews , that the cumbri and cambri were the same ) but from the rising of caedwalla the prince of the britains in those parts against edwin the king of the northumbers , who is said by beda to have reigned both over the english and britains : and was killed a. d. . and the britains in those parts are said to have enjoyed their liberty for forty six years , viz. to the time of beda's writing his history ; which was a. d. . and after the coming in of the saxons . now in this kingdom of the cambri iohn of tinmouth , or capgrave out of him , saith , that s. kentigern came to preach christianity , and particularly , he shewed that woden the chief god of the saxons was a mortal man and a king of the saxons , from whom several nations were derived . now i desire to know , whether this were not preaching christianity among the saxons , and that long before she coming of augustin , ●or alford places it in a. d. . and the landing of augustin a. d. . no ; saith mr. cressy , he pre●ched only to the picts who were revolted to the saxon idolatry ; : and to prove that , makes use of an excellent way by corrupting his author ; for the words in ca●grave are these , woden verò quem principalem deum crediderunt & angli , de quo originem duxerant , cui & quartam feriam consecraverant , hominem fuisse mortalem asseruit , & regem saxonum à quo plures nationes genus duxerant : which he thus renders ; and as for woden whom ( by the seduction of the saxons ) they esteemed their principal god , and to whose h●nour they consecrated the fourth day of the week , &c. what pretence is there to understand these words of the picts and not of the saxons themselves ? i know alford brings that clause in by way of parenthesis , and reads it thus ( & praecipuè angli de quo originem duxerant , &c. ) but i have set the words down exactly as they are published by bollandus the iesuit , who mentions his own care in the publishing of it : but saith mr. cressy , it is plain he meant the picts , because it is said that by his doctrine he freed the nation of the picts from idolatry and heresie : here again mr. cressy discovers his admirable ingenuity ; for the words in capgrave are , ( several things being interposed ) pictorum patriam quae modo galwedia dicitur ab idololatriâ & haereticâ pravitate , doctrin● suâ purgavit : which he mentions as a distinct thing from his former preaching in the regnum cambrense ; of which the former words are expresly spoken . and although alford , mr. cressy's author , will by no means allow any saxons to be converted by kentigern , ( for fear forsooth the saxons should not owe their entire christianity to s. gregories missionaries ) yet bollandus ingenuously confesseth , that bo●h kentigern and gildas did employ their zeal and charity towards the conversion of the english saxons . for in the life of gildas published by ioh. à bosco , it is said , that the northern p●rts of britain flocked to his preaching , and for saking the errours of gentilism they destroyed their idols , and were ●aptized in the faith of the holy trinity . mr. cressy , although he allows the next passages to be understood of gildas sapiens , who lived after the saxons had over-run the island ; yet , he applyes the for●er passage to an elder gildas called gildas albanius , that it might with less probability be understood of the conversion of the saxons ; but bollandus hath sufficiently proved that there was but one gildas called by those several titles , and so much is acknowledged by the french benedictins , so that no relief can be had from thence . thus we see what ground we have to believe that the northern saxons were acquained with christianity , before the order of benedictines was ever heard of . the next settlement we find , was of the western saxons by cerdic who landing with a great force after the death of hengist , a. d. . did so weary out the britains , that malmsbury saith , that they willingly yielded themselves to him , and lived quietly together under his government ; and is it then reasonable to conceive that so many saints as lived in that age by the confession of our adversaries , should not in all that time acquaint their neighbours with the christian doctrine , ( especially if it be true , which mr. cressy reports of them , that they wrought so many miracles ) such as s. david , s. iustinian , s. dubricius , s. paternus , s. theliau , s. paulens , &c. certainly these men were in all respects better qualified than augustin the monk , if one half of the legends concerning them be true : and why should they neglect so necessary a duty where they had such advantages of doing it , and such an easie way of working miracles to convince the saxons ? shall we say , as bede ▪ doth , that the britains wholly neglected it ? but that must certainly be understood of such wretched britains as gildas describes , not of such saints as these were : and bollandus thinks those words of bede do need a limitation , viz. that such apostolical men were but few in comparison of those afterwards . or shall we say , that , these saints had a great mind to do it , but because of the continual wars and persecutions they were forced to retire to a monastick life ? no , mr. cressy himself tells us , that cerdic did permit the inhabitants of cornwal , paying an annual tribute , to enjoy the exercise of the christian religion ; which , saith he , appears by the great number of saints , which in these and the following times flourished there . if there were such a number of saints then , how came they never to employ themselves in the conversion of their neighbour inf●●els ? i had thought those who glory so much and beyond all reason in the conversion of remote infidels , would have allowed their saints to have converted those that were so near at hand ; especially considering how successful they wer● , where they undertook it . for , s. kentigern , they tell us , for his share purged galloway , converted albania , and sent disciples to the orcades , norway , and as far as iseland . methinks , a little charity would have d●ne well nearer home ; when the saxons needed it so much , and they bred up such numbers of disciples under them , as is reported of gildas , iltutus , s. david , and the rest of them . but if notwithstanding all this , christianity was unknown to the saxons , what will become of the saintship of these persons who were so highly qualified , by the gift of tongues , and all sorts of miracles , ( if their writers say true ) and yet utterly neglected to preach christianity to the saxons ? but for all that i can see , the reputation of these british saints must vaile , when it stands in competition with the apostolicalness of augustin the monk. § . . but although in these rem●ter parts the britains being mixed with the saxons might acquaint some of them with the christian religion ; yet surely in kent and those parts to which augustin came , he was the first who brought the knowledge of christianity among them . this is as far from being true as the other : for to omit what alford conf●sseth to be very probable , viz. that irmiric father to ethelbert did permit the christian religion to be professed in his kingdom ; i shall insist upon what is more certain ; viz. the confe●sion of bede himself ; that the same of the christian religion was brought to ethelbert before the coming of augustin , by the means of a christian wife which he had of the royal family of the franks named bertha : whom he received from her parents on that condition , that he would suffer her to enjoy her religion , and to have a bishop to attend her whose name was luidhardus . what can be more plain from hence , than that the first entertainment which christianity met with in the saxon court was by the means of queen bertha and her bishop luidhardus ? this queen bertha was the only daughter of ch●ripertus king of paris ( one of the four sons of clotharius , among whom his kingdom was divided ) by ingoberga ; and her marriage is mentioned by gregorius turonensis , to the son of the king of kent ; which marriage was in all probability solemnized before the death of charipertus ; now charipertus dyed a. d. . so that christianity had been known about thirty years in king ethelberts court before ever augustin set footing upon english ground . and is it conceivable that when a bishop had performed the exercises of the christian religion for thirty years in a church for that purpose , viz. s. martins near canterbury , the english saxons should know nothing of christianity till augustins arrival ? but this is not all ; for we have great reason to believe that the conversion of the saxons to christianity is in a great measure owing to this queen , and her bishop luidhard , or letardus ; who had been bishop of senlis in france , as thorn tells us . i know herein how much i shall provoke the whole generation of romish missionaries ; but i value not the displeasure of those whom truth and reason will enrage . william of malmsbury ( himself a benedictin monk , and one of the most judicious of our monkish historians , ) saith , that by ethelberts match to queen bertha , the saxons began by degrees to lay aside their barbarous customs , and by conversation with the fr●nch became more civilized : to which was added the holy and single life of letardus the bishop , who came over with the queen , by which without speaking he did invite the king to the knowledge of christ our lord : by which means it came to pass that the mind of the king being already softened , did so readily yield to the preaching of augustin . by which it appears that the main of the business as to the kings conversion was effected before augustins coming ; only for the greater solemnity of it , a mission from rome was obtained ; and i am much deceived , if gregory himself doth not imply that it was at the request of the english saxons themselves . i know very well what an idle story the monks tell of the occasion of the conversion of the english nation , viz. s. gregories seeing some pretty english boys to be sold for slaves at rome , and having luckily hit upon two or three pious quibbles in allusion to the names of their nation and countrey and king , he was at last in good earnest moved to seek the conversion of the whole nation . a very likely story for so grave a saint ! i do not quarrel with it on the account of the custom of selling english slaves , but for the monkishness , i. e. the silliness of it . i know bede reports it , but he brings it in after such a fashion , as though he were afraid of the anger of his brethren the monks if he had left it out ; for he mentions it as a reverend tale with which the monks used to entertain themselves , that had come down to them , by that infallible method of conveyance , viz. oral tradition , and quotes nothing else for it . whereas in the preface to his history he tells his readers , that in the matters relating to gregory he relyed on nothelmus who had been at rome and had searched the register of the roman church ; but we see as to this story he saith , he had nothing but an old tradition for it . but since mr. cressy is so zealous in vindication of this story , i desire the other part of it may not be left out which is told by bro●pton abbot of iorval ; viz. that s. gregory and his companions were come three dayes journey towards england ; and then sitting down reading in a meadow , a grashopper leapt upon his book and made him leave off reading ; then s. gregory thinking seriously upon this little creatures name ( for his wit lay much that way ) he presently found this mysterie in it , locusta , saith he , quasi loco sta : which saith brompton he spake by a prophetick spirit , for messengers immediately came upon them from rome and stopped their journey . and surely he had been much to blame to undertake such a journey upon the instigation of one quibble , if he had not been as ready to turn back upon the admonition of another . but to set aside these monkish fopperies ; the best authority we can have in this case is of s. gregory himself : several of whose letters are still ext●nt in the register of his epistles ▪ relating to this affair . in one sent to the kings of france theodoric , and theodebert , he expresseth himself thus ; atque ideo pervenit ad nos , anglorum gentem ad fidem christianam , deo miserante , desi●eranter velle converti , sed sacerdotes vestros è vicino neglige●e● & desideria eorum cessare suâ aah●rtatione succendere . ob hoc igitur augustinum serv●●m dei praesentium portitorem , cujus zelus & studium bene nobis est cogn●tum , cum aliis servis dei praevid●mus illuc dirigendum . quibus etiam injunximus ut aliquos secum è vicino debeant presbyteros ▪ 〈◊〉 , cum quibus eorum possint mentes agnoscere , & voluntatem admonitione sua , quantam deus donaverit adjuvare : and to the same purpose he writes to brunichildis their mother . indicamus ad nos pervenisse anglorum gentem deo ann●ente velle fieri christianam , &c. which are the most remarkable testimonies we could desire to our purpose : for these letters were sent by augustin the monk , before ever he had been in england ; and therein the pope expresseth the desire of the english nation to embrace christianity ( not barely of ethelbert and his court ) that this desire was made known at rome ; that upon this the pope sends augustin and his companions ; that the french who were their neighbours had been too negligent in this work , and began to be more slack than formerly in it ; that however now , since he had taken so much care to send these on purpose for that work , he intreats them to send over so many priests as might serve for their interpreters : which is a plain discovery , that there had been entercourse about the christian religion between the french and the saxons before ; and that still they understood their language so well , as to serve for interpreters to augustin and his brethren . mr. cressy who pares and clips testimonies to make them serve his purpose , renders those words , anglorum gentem desideranter velle converti , & velle fieri christianam ; only thus , that the english nation were in a willing disposition to receive the christian faith : but certainly not a bare disposition , but a desire too is implyed in them , and the latter words with the same ingenuity he thus expresses the sense of ; but that the french clergy and bishops their neighb●urs were negligent and void of all pastoral solicitude towards them : whereas methinks desideria eorum cessare suâ adhortatione succendere , are words , which although they do blame them for present negligence , do imply withall a former care ; for how could they cease to do that which they had never begun ? and pope gregory in his letter to the queen whom he calls aldilberga attributes very much of the success of his missionaries to her kindness and prudence ; although considering her zeal and learning , it was rather to be wondered that the work was so long in doing : but , he saith , god had reserved the glory of the conversion of the english nation , as a reward to her vertue ; and compares her with helena , hoping that by her means the conversion of the whole nation would be made much more easie ; and he adds that her fame had already reached as far as constantinople . by which we see how much the knowledge and establishment of christianity in thus nation , is owing to the care and devotion of this good queen : and that hadrianus valesius had some reason to say , that the christianity of england was owing rather to the franks , than the romans . § . but supposing , we should yield that augustin and his brethren were the first who brought christianity among the english saxons ; how comes from thence such a mighty obligation to the benedictin order ? is it so unquestionable that they were all benedictins who came over , or that any of them were such ? by all the search i can make , this may very well bear a dispute . for it is agreed on all sides that augustin followed the same rule and was of the same order that s. gregory himself was of ; and no meaner a person than cardinal baronius hath utterly denyed that s. gregory was of the benedictin order ; methinks his authority might at least have made mr. cressy not so peremptory in this matter , and not so resolved to stand to it : especially considering the reasons which he gives . for he plainly proves from s. gregories own words in his dialogues , that when he founded his monastery in rome , he did not take his abbot from the benedictin monks , who were then removed by the persecution of the lombards to the l●teran church ; but sent into the province valeria for one valentius , whom he called his own abbot ; and withal shews not only that the benedictin monastery at rome had a distinct succession of abbots , but that the monasteries of that province , from whence valentius was taken , were not under the benedictin rule : and that joh. diaconus was much to blame for making s. gregory a monk under one hilarion , when himself saith expresly , he was under valentius . the freedom of this discourse of baronius brought a swarm of benedictin monks about him ; bellottus , const. cajetanus , and others ; but antonius gallonius undertook the defence of baronius ; and at large shews , that the benedictins produced nothing but trifles , forgeries and lyes to defend themselves ; and spondanus confesses that gallonius had with great strength overthrown the benedictins arguments . but of late the french benedictins have renewed the quarrel against baronius , who yet make use only of the baffled arguments of the former benedictins ; and after all confess , that they are but conjectures ; and that the greatest strength they have lyes in augustin the monk and his companions being of that order . if therefore we desire them to prove augustin to have been a benedictin , they presently fly to s. gregories being so ; if we would have them prove gregory to have been a benedictin , then they say he must be because augustin was so . so that the main proof of the point , is , that it must needs be so ; and it must needs be so and they are resolved to stand to it , because it is for the honour and advantage of their order . and therefore our english benedictins have thought themselves more than a little concerned in this controversie : for what would open the purses and hearts of the people more towards them , than for them to be accounted the apostolical order of england ? alas ! what have the merits of the iesuits been to theirs ? they , an upstart order , that have converted some in these latter times to treason and the gallows ; but the benedictins , the ancient apostolical benedictins , were the only persons who converted england to the christian faith ; and therefore they deserve greater respect than the iesuits ; however the others have been too cunning for them . thus we see , upon what hinge the controversie turns : and i cannot say , the benedictins have been wanting to themselves ; for mr. cressy hath not been the only person , who hath resolved to stand to it in this matter . reynerius hath published a voluminous book to this purpose , which he calls , the apostleship of the benedictins in england ; and he proves it chiefly from the common tradition of the english nation . and what demonstration can be greater , than the infallibility of oral tradition ? this is proving it in i. s. his scientifical way . as though it were possible for the people to be deceived in a matter of such consequence ; which mothers would be sure to teach their children ; viz that augustin the monk and his c●mpanions were by no means equitians , or of any other order , but right and true benedictins . i confess reyner hath luckily hit on the right mathematical way ; the very same mons. arnauld hath taken for transubstantiation : for , saith reyner , i will instance in an age wherein all the monasteries and cathedral churches possessed by monks in england , were in the hands of the benedictins ; viz. in the age of william the conquerour : for which he quotes many authors , as mons. arnauld doth to prove transubstantiation to have been the faith of the same age : now since it is evident that the benedictin order was then in possession , and no time can be instanced in wherein the benedictin order was brought into england from the time of augustin , it necessarily follows that augustin and his companions brought it in . here is a demonstration in the case ! which i grant to be altogether as good , as that which the men for oral tradition do produce for their articles of faith. thus he proves it , from testimonies of authors , and the foundations of monasteries , and the particular histories of them ; by which it appearing , that they were at such a time of the benedictin order , and no account being given of any change of the order , he thinks it sufficiently proved that they were originally benedictins . but is it not possible to suppose that the histories being afterwards written by benedictin monks , they would for the honour of their order conceal any such alteration , if it had happened among them ? we find in other countries , the benedictins have done the same thing , and why should we wonder if they have done it in england ? trithemius , who was no fool , for the greater honour of the benedictins , reckons caprasius among the famous men of that order ; but the mischief of it is that caprasius lived about a hundred years before s. benedict : as vincentius baralis observes . so likewise he piaces s. c●●sarius among them , who dyed ( after he had been bishop of arles forty years ) before s. benedict , and therefore was somewhat unlikely to be bred up a monk in his order : indeed in one of his homilies he calls s. benedict our father ; but the same vincentius observes , that the name benedict was soisted in by the monks , no such name appearing in the antient ms. and it appears by the foregoing chapter , that this demonstration will not hold in france ; and certainly there is as little reason it should in england . § . . for mr. broughton hath taken a great deal of pains to prove , that there were other antient orders which continued after the coming of augustin , that neither gregory nor augustin , nor his companions could be benedictins ; that the monastick rules introduced by augustin were very different from those of benedict ; both in habit , customs , publick service and other particulars : and that not any one monastery , till about an hundred years after augustin 's coming into england , was or could be of s. benedicts rule or order : and in answer to the former demonstration , he saith , that since it is evident there was no such thing in ethelbert and s. austins time : the other latter times are produced to no purpose ; all men granting th●t both benedictin monks , and many latter orders were in england in those dayes . and what doth meek mr. cressy answer to angry mr. broughton , as he calls him ? he produces the testimony of our four l●arned antiquaries sr. r. c. sr. h. sp. mr. selden and mr. cambden ; which he produ●es falsly and to little purpose . falsely , for he thus introduces it ; that they expresly in opposition to mr. broug●ton test●fie , that whereas he affirmed , that the fi●●t converters of saxons in england , were not benedictins , but eq●itians , &c. who affirmed this ? mr. brought●n ? i with mr. cressy would learn to write either with more honesty , or more care . fo● m● . broughton in the very title page of his book saith , that the design of it is to prove , that in the primitive church of the saxons , there was no rule , nor order from egypt , nor of s. benedict , nor of s. equitius : and in the body of his book he very often disproves their opinion who made augustin and his companions to be of an equit●●n order : and mr. broughton writ since their testimony and in con●utation of it . now their testimony , as it is set down by mr. cressy , is thus , that they having spent much time in searching the antiquities of our nation do affirm , they could find only two sorts of monks in the antient saxon churches , the first such as followed the egyptian form of monachism , before s. austin 's arrival ( which plainly makes against mr. cressy , being an express acknowledgement , that there was another order of monks among the saxons , and consequently that christianity was entertain'd by them , before s. austins arrival in england ) and the other benedictins compantons of s. austin . and as for equitians , no such name was extant in any antient record . moreover , that whereas they could exactly discover the original and entrance of all other religious orders , and could name the very years , they could not do so of the benedictins , which firmly argues that s. augustin and his associates were benedictins , &c. i could hardly believe that persons of so much understanding would ever draw up such a testimony as this ; which at least seems to contradict it self ; for whereas they say , they could not name the year when the benedictins came in ; and yet say that s. augustin and his companions did bring the benedictin order hither ; the time of whose coming they as certainly knew , as of any other orders , looks too much like a contradiction for such great men to be guilty of . but we must suppose they meant any year after augustins coming ; yet i can hardly think such knowing persons should not at least be able to give a very probable conjecture concerning it . for in the ms. life of wilfrid extant in the library of one of those learned persons , and written by one that lived in the same time with him , and whose name is mentioned by bede in his history , viz. steph. eddius or heddius , we have this account of him ; that at fourteen years of age , he was sent by queen eanf●ed to attend upon a noble man called cudda in the monastery of lindisfarn : after he had been there a while the spirit moved him ( suggerente spiritu sancto ) to go to rome , to visit the apostolical see ; adhuc inattritam viam gentinostrae temptare in cor adolescentis supradicti ascendit ; a road very little frequented by our nation ( it seems then pilgrimages , and appeals to rome were very little known in those dayes ) . the queen understanding his desire sends him to erconbert king of kent , who found out a companion for him whom he calls biscop-baducing ; ( but more commonly known by the name of benedict biscop , whose life is written by bede , and their going together is mentioned in his history ) wilfrid stayes a while behind in france ; but afterwards arrived at rome , where by the help of boniface the arch-deacon he was well instructed in the rules of ecclesiastical discipline , and admitted to the popes favour and benediction : ( after which he ever continued the popes most humble servant ) . in his return through france he received the tonsure of s. peter ; ( for it seems they were so cunning in those days , to know exactly the different cuts of s. peter and s. paul , and of simon magus , ( as we may see afterwards ) and wilfrid was guilty of no malignant ingratitude for this favour , for he stood to it with great zeal against the scots who liked s. pauls cut better ) upon his return he was entertained with great kindness by alchfrid the son of oswi , by whom he was drawn off from the customs of his countrey to those of rome , from whom wilfrid received the monastery of rippon ; and soon after was made priest by agilbertus . then happened the famous conference between wilfrid and colman arch-bishop of york about the time of easter , and the right tonsure , wherein wilfrid shewed a more than ordinary zeal for the roman customs ; insomuch that when upon the cession of colman he was chosen bishop he refused to be consecrated by any of them , as schismatical persons ; and therefore in great humility he desired leave to be consecrated in france . in the mean time ceadda by king oswi's consent was made bishop , and consecrated at home ; wilfrid upon his return finding the see ●ull , was employed by vulpher king of the mercians to settle monasteries ; and after the death of deus-dedit he was sent for by e●bert king of kent , where he went up and down through his countrey , and then adds , & cum regula benedicti instituta ecclesiarum bene melioravit , he improved the orders of churches by the rule of s. benedict : which is in effect to say , that he first brought this order among them ; for how could he better their orders by it , if they had it among them before ? and he presently adds , tun● ergo in illis regionibus sancto episcopo sicut paulo apostolo magnum estium fidei deo adjuvante apertum est : as though the ●eceiving the order of s. benedict were of as much consequence as believing the christian faith. after three years by theodore's means then arch-bishop of canterbury , he was put into the archbishoprick of york and ceadda deposed ; he had not been long there , but refusing to consent to the making of three bishops under him , he was deprived by theodore : wilfrid appeals to rome , and hastens thither himself , where he was kindly received ( for rome from its foundation hath been an asylum for fugitives especially when their coming helps to increase its grandeur ) pope agatho with his council orders his restitution ; and threatens deprivation and excommunication to those that refuse him : wilfrid returns loaden with reliques , and the popes bull ; the king and the bishops refuse to obey the popes command ; and instead of restoring him , the king commits him to prison , and afterwards banished him ; and he returned not home till the second year of aldfrid , where he continued not long but he was banished again for refusing to submit to the synodical constitutions at home . then a synod was called of all the bishops of england to which wilfrid was summon'd , where he upbraided the bishops , that they had opposed the popes command for twenty two years , and wondered they durst prefer the constitutions of theodore before the bull of the pope . ( was not england in great subjection to rome at that time , when all the bishops ( one factious person excepted ) refused to obey the pope upon an appeal for two and twenty years together ? and governed themselves by their own constitutions in opposition to the popes express command ? ) notwithstanding , the bishops persist in their resolution , and would hearken to no terms , unless wilfrid would submit to their sentence , and oblige himself to run no more beyond sea ; which he refuses to do , and appeals again to rome , upon which wilfrid and all his adherents were solemnly excommunicated . but it is observable , that where wilfrid speaks the most in his own vindication , he insists on these things as his great merits : that he had been the great instrument of converting the scots ( and english following them ) to the true easter and the right tonsure ; and that he had brought the monks under the rule of s. benedict ; which no man had brought among them before . by which we see , that wilfrid ( at least , in the northern parts ) was the first who brought in the benedictin order . which passage ead●erus a benedictin monk in the li●e of wilfrid , tho●ght convenient to leave out , although he takes most of the rest out of heddius ; and so doth fredegodus in the rumbling verses of his life , published lately by the benedictins of france : but william of malmsbury hath the very same words in effect of wilfrid , that ●e gloried that he had been the first who brought the benedictin order into those parts . it is a strange objection of reyner against this , that he would not boast of doing it there , unless it had been every where else in england before his time ; for we have no mention at all of this rule here before his time ; and he might think he had cause to glory to begin that order in the north , and to give an example to others : and if our historians say true , he brought it into the midland parts , for he had a great hand in the consecration of the abby of evesham , which pope constantin in his bull , saith it was to be under the benedictin rule , quae minus in illis partibus adhuc habetur , which is yet very little known in those parts . so that the coming in of the benedictin order into those parts of england is not a matter of so great obscurity as those learned persons supposed ; and that some time after the death of augustin and his companions ; but it hath been therefore thought so obscure , because only this author , who was never yet printed , makes so express mention of it ; the benedictins afterwards thinking it made for their honour to conceal it . § . . the greatest difficulty seems to be about our church of canterbury , of which mr. selden saith , that it was alwayes supposed to be of the benedictin order , from its first foundation by augustin , for , saith he , since there were alwayes monks there , and no other order named , we have reason to believe them to have been benedictins ; for the name of monk being set without addition of family , he supposes in the western parts to have implyed a benedictin , as in the eastern one of s. basils order . supposing this were granted of the latter times , after that the benedictin order prevailed in the times of duns●an ; when the concordia regularis anglic● nationis was generally received after the expu●sion of the canon●cal and secular clergy out of most cathedrals ; yet i can see no reason at all for it before , when there were so many different rules of monks both here and in italy and france . all those who lived after the monastick way , whether they lived by rule , or only un●er the government of a superiour , had equally the name of monks given to them . but of all sorts of monks of that time , those whom augustin brought with him , and were setled at canterbury , seem to be the farthest from the benedictin ru●e ; for any one that looks into that , will easily see that it was intended for illiterate persons , who were to imploy themselves in work when the office of the ●●oire was over ; and for such who lived at a distance from cities , and consequently were to have all conveniencies within themselves , and all the monks in their course were to go through the office of the kitchin and such like : but those whom s. gregory sent over with augustin were clergy-men , and to be constantly imployed in preaching and other duties of their function : and when augustin sent to gregory for directions ( after he was made bishop ) how he should live among them ; gregory takes not the least notice of the benedictin rule , which on such an occasion he would certainly have done , if they had been of that order ; but only tells him , he ought to live with his clergie after the custom of the primitive church , which was to have all things in common . from which it is very plain , that he considered them as clergy-men ; who if they had been tyed to the benedictin rule , could have had very few hours of the day , either for study , or their other imployments . only he adviseth them in the beginning of this church to follow the pattern of the church of hierusalem , to live in a community together : much after the same way which s. augustin had brought into reputation in africa among his clergie , and who from thence in latter times were called canons regular . and which is very observable to our purpose , eugenius the fourth in a bull in behalf of the canons of the lateran church , saith expresly , that st. gregory commanded austin to establish this order in the english church . and these canons ( without the first community ) continued in the church of canterbury , long after the benedictin monks were brought into it . for i find as low as thomas beckets time , that alexander the third writ to the arch-bishop of canterbury , to make good his promise to one whom he had admitted canon of that church , and promised him the first prebend that feil ; from whence the gloss of the canon law deduceth , that a man may be instituted canon of a church , and yet expect the next vacancy , supposing that he receives some profits though but small the mean while . and thomas becket mentions the prebends of canterbury that were vacant in one of his ms. epistles to henry . and that monks and canons have both continued in the same church , is fully proved by pennottus . if therefore i should grant , that the benedictin monks came early into that church ; yet that proves nothing as to the conversion of the nation by them ; for those were of the clergie who were employ'd in that work ; the monks by the benedictin rule being so strictly tyed to the service of the choire , as made them fit for very little besides . i shall not therefore disspute with mal●sbury or mr. selden , whether alfric were the first who brought in the monks ; or whether they were not settled by boniface in the time of laurentius ? but this i insist upon , that whereas by that constitution of boniface , the clergie of that church were required to associate to them a company of monks ; in all probability it was intended for this purpose , that while the others were imployed in other duties of their function , the monks might be ready to attend the service of the choire : and yet neither boniface nor gregory ever call them by the name of benedictin monks ; or so much as once mention that rule in all the affairs relating to the saxon church : which will seem very strange , considering its novelty at that time , and what small reputation it was in , either in france , or italy . and however wilfrid , or benedict biscop might in some particular monasteries introduce the benedictin rule ; yet as that learned gentleman sr. iohn marsham hath observed , there is no general constitution prescribing it , before the council of winchester under dunstan , a. d. . and then it was not the pure benedictin rule , but a collection of antient customs accommodated to that rule ; as will easily appear to any that will compare the rule and that concordia regularis together ; not as it was imperfectly published by mr. selden , but as it is extant entire in reyners appendix . methinks so great a zealot , as dunstan was for the benedictin order , should not have continued the old customs together with that rule , if he had been of mr. cressy's mind , in believing it to have been written by divine inspiration : nay , wilfrid and benedict biscop , were not for the pure benedictin rule ; for the former , some say , joyned the gregorian office with it , and the latter declares expresly , that he had gathered his rule out of the customes of seventeen monasteries : which was a very vain and fruitless labour , if he had thought s. benedict writ his rule by the inspiration of the holy ghost . the french benedictins who have lately undertaken to prove that the benedictins converted england , do suppose , without reason , that since by the constitution of boniface it appears that there were monks very early in the church of canterbury , they must be either equitian or benedictin monks ; we meddle not with equitian monks , which our learned antiquaries upon good grounds say , they meet with no footsteps of in our records : that was a particular conceit of baronius , and was quitted by his defender gallonius ; but we say , that in italy at that time , there were several institutions of monks different from those of s. equitius and s. benedict . for every person who affected that kind of life , and was able to found a monastery , gave such rules to it , as he thought fit . some were first instituted for devotion and labour , as it is plain the benedictin order was , by the rule of it ; others for devotion and study , as it is evident those of cassiodore were , by the occasion of them , and the counsel he gives them ; others for those of the clergy to live together after a monastick way ; of which sort penottus shews there were many in italy at that time , after the bringing over that order from africa by gelasius son of valerius a bishop of africa , who had been one of s. augustins disciples . now there being so many several wayes and designs of a monastick life at that time , it can by no means be sufficient to prove the ancient monks of canterbury mentioned by boniface to have been benedictins , because they were not equitians ; and if we suppose them to have been monks joyned to the canonical clergy at canterbury for attendance on the choire , as the benedictin monks were to the canons of the lateran church after the destruction of the monastery of cassino ; yet this is far enough from proving that augustin or the preaching monks were of that order ; which it is their design to prove . and themselves suggest that concerning the council of boniface when mellitus was at rome , which affords us a good argument against them ; viz. that when mel●itus was sent to rome , about the affairs of the english church , they confess that a dispute was raised about the benedictin monks whether they were capable of priesthood or no ? but what likelihood was there that should have been ever called in question at rome , if it had been a thing so notorious that gregory and augustin and his companions were of that order , and had born the office of priesthood ? who durst have questioned it , after that s. gregory had declared it not only by his example , but by the mission of austin and his brethren hither to preach and do all priestly offic●s ? but the ground of the question was not for the monks bred up to learning , as th●se of s. gregories own monastery were , out of which austin and his brethren came ; but for those who were bred up only to devotion and labour , as those of the benedictin order must be by their rule ; as to which it might very well bear a dispute , since their time was to be otherwise employed ; and all that pope boniface had to say was , that s. benedict doth no where forbid it ; but withall by his rule he gives such directions that no man can observe them , as every one swears to do , and perform the necessary duties of the priestly office together . the testimony of iohannes diaconus hath been long since answered by gallonius , who hath shewed him to be a very incompetent witness in this matter . but they have not at all taken notice of the testimony of malmsbury , who saith , that the benedictin order came into england from the abby of . fleury ; being brought hither by oswald ; who had been a monk there , not long before the council of winchester ; which first made any establishment of it here . i do not then deny , that this order was introduced by a particular devotion of some persons in some few places before ; to which the testimonies of wilfrid , benedict biscop , and aldelmus refer ; but the general reception of it was not before the times of dunstan ; and with what confusions and disorders , with what severities , and injustice to the canonical and secular clergy it was then established , may be easily seen in our histories . for dunstan , oswald , and ethelwald set themselves with all their power , ( which was great by the favour of king edgar ) to drive out the canons out of the cathedral churches belonging to them , and to bring in the monks in their rooms : and other bishops thought it a good way to preferment to follow their example . and from hence forward the benedictin monks kept the possession not only of the greater monasteries , but of several of the cathedral churches , contrary to the design of their rule , if the cistertian abbots may be believed , who declare their resolution to keep to the benedictin rule , and therefore would wholly withdraw from cities , and have nothing to do in churches , that so they might live retired , not upon the profits of churches , but upon their own stock and industry , according to the intention of their rule . and that this resolution of the cistertians was most agreeable to the benedictin rule , is declared by the many bulls of popes which are extant for the confirmation of the cistertian order , or rather reformation of the benedictin , according to the first design and letter of their rule . § . . thus far mr. cressy's resolution to stand to it , that christianity was established in england by the disciples of s. benedict , hath drawn me to the discourse of the means and persons by which england was converted ; but it may be after all this he may find out a reserve to himself , viz. that he did not mean it of the first knowledge of christianity , but of the firm settlement of it : but neither can this be his meaning , nor if it were , is it any truer than the former . it cannot be his meaning , for his words are , that the english saxons were indeed converted by the disciples of s. benedict , by which it is plain he speaks of the first conversion ; but suppose he did not , the establishment or settlement of christianity is no more owing to the benedictins than the first conversion of the nation . for which we are to consider , that a sudden apostasie soon happened to paganism after the death of the first princes who professed christianity . for eadbald king of kent , son to ethelbert revolted from it ; but he soon repented his apostasie and sent for mellitus and iustus out of france again ; but the state of christianity remained more desperate in the eastern parts after the death of sebert , and the apostasie of his sons : and although some hopes appeared by the conversion of erpenwald , yet his death happening soon after , things were as bad as ever , till the return of sigebert out of france , who brought felix a burgundian priest with him , who was the great instrument of restoring christianity in those parts . among the west saxons birinus was the first preacher of christianity , but he was so far from being a benedictin , that mr. cressy himself confesseth , that he was not by profession a monk. in the northern parts , after the revolt of the sons of edwin , christianity was wholly restored in the time of king oswald by the scottish christians , among whom himself was converted and baptized . bede at large relates the coming of aid●nus and his excellent piety , zeal , and charity ; whose good example many others followed , till by great diligence in preaching and an excellent conversation , they had settled christianity much more firmly than ever : and from thence christianity was conveyed into the middle parts of england in the time of peada by finanus ; who carried with him four p●iests , cedda , and adda , and betti , and diuma , whereof the last was a scot , and the other english : this diuma was made bishop and consecrated by finanus : after him succeeded ceolla a scot too : after him trum●ere , consecrated by the scots ; after him iaruman , after him ceadda . at the same time , saith bede , the east saxons recovered the christian faith by the endeavours of king o●wi of northumberland with their king sigbert : who was likewise baptized by finanus , and he consecrated cedda , to be their bishop . by which we see that when christianity was settled and established in england , how much more it was owing to the piety and care of the scottish christians , than to the roman missionaries ; for all the northern parts , the midland and east saxons were throughly converted by them ; the east angles by felix a burgundian ; the west saxons by birinus one sent from rome , but no monk ; and only the parts of kent by the roman monks , but not benedictins . and hath not mr. cr. now very great reason to stand to this assertion , that the english saxons were converted to christianity by benedictin monks ? § . . but it may be yet , mr. cressy thinks they were never true christians till they had received the roman customes : and that the honour of making them good catholick christians belonged to the benedictins , or at least to the roman missionaries . for all that i can find , they were very good christians in mr. cressy's esteem , but only in the customes wherein they differed from the roman church . for mr. cressy confesseth that the scots , picts , and brittains in all matters of faith agreed with the saxon , that is the roman church : but it is plain withall that the great zealot for the church of r●me , wilfrid , refused to receive orders among them and gives this as the reason of it , because the apostolical see did not allow th●● 〈…〉 on with it ; for speaking of the 〈◊〉 scottish bishops , he saith , 〈…〉 apostolica sedes in communi●● 〈…〉 neceos qui schismat●cis consen●●●● : it seems then the brittish and s●●●●●sh churches stood excommunicated at that time by the church of rome ; and therefore he desires to go into france , ut sine controversia apostolicae sedis , licet indignus , gradum episcopalem merear accipere ; so that the pope would neither allow their churches nor their ordinations . so william of malmsbury saith , that he would neither be ordained by the scottish bishops , nor by any ordained by them , because the apostolical see had rejected their communion . but what was it i beseech mr. cressy , that unchurched the brittish and scottish christians , and nulled their ordinations , and made them deserve excommunication ? why , forsooth , they had not the right tonsure among them , and they did not keep easter on the right sunday ; these are all the material differences mr. cressy will allow , for the causes of so much severity . but doth mr. cressy in good earnest think , that these are of weight enough to unchurch whole nations , and null their ordinations ? mr. cressy hath very learnedly set forth the state of the controversie about tonsure ; and he tells us , there were three several kinds of tonsure ; the first was called s. peters , which was shaving the top of the head , leaving below toward the forehead and ears a circle or diadem representing the crown of thorns which our lord bore : the second was s. pauls which was either a total shaving or at least close polling of the whole head : the third was called simon magus his tonsure , by which only a half crown was formed on the lower part of the head before , from one ear to the other , all the rest of the h●ir being left at full length : now saith mr. cressy , the present dispute was , whether s. peters manner of tonsure in use at rome was to be only received in brittany ? a very weighty controversie i confess ; and very fit for the head of the church to be so much concerned in ; for so mr. c. tells us , that the popes of this age took care , that s. peters tonsure should be only received in brittany . and was there not great reason for it , since it was to be a mark of their slavery to the roman see ? good lord ! that ever men should pretend to take care of souls and excommunicate whole churches for not having the right fashion of shaving their heads ! could they ever believe that s. peter and s. paul were so concerned whether mens hair was cut in the form of a crown , or all off ? no , they say , that circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing ; but it seems the fashion of shaving is a very great matter . but i suppose the weight of the business lay in the keeping of easter on a different sunday from the church of rome : mr. cressy pretends to some skill in this matter , and undertakes to correct many mistakes of protestants about it : and therefore to prevent any needless quarrels i will take the controversie as mr. cr. himself states it , and then see what can be made of it against the brittish and scottish churches and the english which followed their example . the errour of the brittains saith he , ( and consequently of the rest ) consisted not as generally protestant writers conceive , in conforming to the asiatick manner of the quartodecimani , who kept their easter alwayes the same day 〈…〉 whether it were sunday or 〈…〉 they made their computation from the fourteenth of the moon to the one and twenty , by which means it came to pass , that if the fourteenth of the moon proved to be a sunday , the iews and brittains once in seven years would observe their paschal solemnity together ; which was contrary to the universal practice of the church , and utterly forbidden by the first general council of nicea . and a little before , he saith , that to distinguish the christian pasch from the shadow of a iewish observation , they ordained that it should be solemnized only on a sunday , yet not that on which the fourteenth day of the moon fell , but the sunday following , and therefore counted alwayes from the to the , excluding the day of the iewish pasch ; which , he saith , was to be celebrated exactly on the fourteenth day of the first moon after the vernal aequinox on what day of the week soever it fell . for mr. cressy's satisfaction , or rather for the vindication of the brittish , and scottish churches and the english which followed them , i shall enquire into two things . . the true state of the controversie . . whether the roman emissaries either then had , or now have reason to charge them with contradicting the universal practice of the church , or the decree of the council of nice ? § . . . for the state of the controversie ; we must consider , what they were charged with by their enemies , and what they had to say for themselves . bede , where he first mentions it , gives this account of it ; that they did not keep the sunday of easter in its own time , for they reckoned from the fourteenth of the moon to the twentieth : which computation , saith he , is contained in a cycle of eighty four years : stephanus heddius saith , from the fourteenth to the two and twentieth ; but that is a mistake . pope honorius charges them , with contradicting the practice of the universal church , and the decrees of general councils . pope iohn who succeeded severinus next after honorius , charges them , with renewing an old heresie , and keeping easter with the iews ; and all was , saith bede , because they did not reckon the easter sunday from the fifteenth to the one and twentieth , according to what was approved in the council of nice . those that came out of kent and gaul , saith bede , charged the scots that they kept the easter sunday contrary to the practice of the universal church : from this different practice , saith bede , it sometimes happened , that two easters were kept in a year , and that which was easter day to the one was palm-sunday to the other : and after naiton king of the picts had embraced the then roman custom of keeping easter , to shew to all the people the change he had made , he removed the cycle of eighty four years , and set up that of nineteen . so that the true state of the whole controversie between them was no more but this , whether the old roman cycle of eighty four should continue , or the alexandrian cycle of nineteen be followed ? but the combatants on both sides talked like men that did not understand the matter they were so hot about : however colman pleaded , for their adhering to the ancient tradition of their church in this matter , and that they had no reason to hearken to any innovation by whomsoever introduced ; for supposing the greatest inconvenience that could happen , that they should celebrate easter on the fourteenth together with the iews , yet herein they had the example of the apostle s. john , and those who were inspired by the holy ghost ; and we , ( as polycarp and others ) are not ashamed to follow their example , and therefore we dare not and will not change our custom . fredegodus makes colman add further , that they had not only constant tradition for it , but that it was left in charge by s. john and his disciples that if the sunday fell on the fourteenth , they should keep their easter on that day : and so much heddius saith too , patres nostri & antecessores eorum manifeste spiritu sancto inspirati ut erat columcille luna die dominicâ pascha celebrandum sanxerunt . eadmerus makes the command to come from s. iohn himself in those churches which were under his care ; which practice , saith colman , hath been delivered down to us by an uninterrupted succession of holy and prudent men , and hath been inviolably observ'd hitherto , and therefore ought to be so still . what could those of the church of rome desire more , than they bring for this practice ? nay , i. s. would have told them , the popes infallibility was not to be compared to that of oral tradition : what certainty , would he say , could they have had of any thing if they rejected such evidence as this ? but it seems this kind of tradition was not valued so much then , no nor any thing else when it opposes their interests . it was not this or that day , was , in truth , the occasion of the dispute , but the poor brittish and scottish christians must submit to the present roman church , and do as they would have them . beda saith expresly , that they did not comply with the iews as to the day of the week ; but ignorantly and by following uncertain cycles they mistook in the certain sunday ; being men of very great devotion and goodness , and learning only what was contained in the writings of the prophets , evangelists , and apostles ; but , be that as it would , no favour was to be shewed them without present complyance ; and for this purpose wilfrid was an excellent instrument . who begins , in bede , his answer to colman by saying , the easter we observe , we saw observed at rome by all persons where peter and paul lived , and taught , and suffered , and were buried ; the same , saith he , is observed in italy , and gaul , in africa , asia , egypt and greece , and all the world over , except these obstinate brittains and picts . very confidently said ! how truly will be seen afterwards . however he confesses , that s. johns practice was agreeable to theirs : but s. peter when he preached at rome ( there is the emphasis of it ) appointed otherwise , that it should be kept on the sunday that did fall between the fifteenth and one and twentieth . it seems s. peter and s. iohn differed as much about easter , as s. peter and s. paul did about tonsure . and this , saith he , all the churches of asia after s. johns death and his successours observed ( it seems his authority vanished at his death ) and the whole church , which was not first decreed but confirmed by the council of nice . what prodigious ignorance and confidence is here joyned together ! as will appear presently . colman asked him , what he thought of anatolius a man much commended in ecclesiastical history , who declared that the sunday was to be taken from the fourteenth to the twentieth . wilfrid tells him , they did not understand him ( no more than himself ) ; and as to their ancestors he was willing to think charitably of them , and hoped that the keeping easter on a wrong day would not damn them , as long as they had no better information . but , saith he , for you and your companions , if you refuse to obey the decrees of the apostolical see , yea of the universal church , confirmed by scripture , without all doubt you sin in it . for , saith he , our lord hath said , tu es petrus , & super hanc petram , &c. this i confess is home to the business ; although the saxon homilies with no less than malignant ingratitude understood the rock of christ himself and the faith which peter confessed ; but however wilfrid made such a noise with s. peters keyes ; that the good king oswi verily believing that he kept heaven-gates told them all plainly , that for his part he would follow s. peter , for fear he should shut heaven-gates against him when he came thither : and we may be sure the people could not but be mightily moved with this : by which means wilfrid prevailed and colman was forced to retire from his bishoprick . steph. heddius adds only farther , that wilfrid insisted on this , that the nicene fathers had appointed the cycle of nineteen , by which they could never keep easter on the fourteenth , and that an anathema was pronounced against those who should keep it otherwise . thus far we have an account of the state of the controversie , from the parties engaged in it . § . . . let us now see what reason there was for charging the brittish and scottish christians with opposing the practice of the universal church , and the decrees of the council of nice in reckoning the easter sunday from the fourteenth to the twentieth , and not ( as the roman missionaries would have them ) from the fifteenth to the one and twentieth . i shall therefore now shew , that if they were guilty of an error or heresie in so doing , ( so petavius calls it insignis error , imo haeresis scotorum ) not only the apostles and their disciples , but the roman church it self was guilty of as great . the great ignorance which wilfrid and the rest of the zealots for the roman customs betrayed , lay in this , that what they saw practised in their time at rome , they supposed to have been alwayes observed there , and that it came from a command of s. peter , that the day of easter should be observed as it was then in the roman church ; whereas there was nothing like any apostolical precept for it , and the church of rome it self had but lately embraced the alexandrian cycle , which wilfrid would with so much authority have inforced upon the poor scottish christians . in the beginning of christianity nothing was looked on with greater indifferency than the anniversary day of the christian pasch ; thence came so different customs among several churches ; the churches of asia , properly so called , syria , mesopotamia and cilicia , observed it on what day of the week soever it fell ; as any one that knows any thing of ecclesiastical history understands : for as s. chrysostom saith , they did not believe that any one should be called to account that he observed the pasch in this or that moneth : for they had neither the leisure nor the curiosity to examine the cycles then in use by the rules of astronomy ; but took them as they found them among the iews without comparing them with the heavenly bodies . now there were two things observed by the iews for finding out the dayes of passeover , viz. the beginning and ending of the first month ; and the fourteenth day of the moon , on the evening of which they were to begin their passeover ; and these two were observed by all christians in the beginning of the christian church till towards the end of the second century , according to the iewish cycle , which was of eighty four years , as epiphanius tells us ; which although it were not exact according to the motions of the heavens , yet that was not thought a sufficient ground for the alteration of it . yea , epiphanius mentions an apostolical constitution ( quite different from what is now extant in the book that goes under the name of apostolical constitutions ) wherein christians are commanded not to trouble themselves with calculations , but that they should keep the feast at the same time with the brethren that came out of the circumcision , although they were mistaken ( in their calculations ) : not with those that remain in the circumcision , but with those that came out of it , saith epiphanius , which he understands of the bishops of ierusalem , fifteen of which continued to a. d. . till towards the end of the empire of hadrian , at which time marcus was the first bishop that was made of the gentiles . petavius knows not what to make of this constitution , for by it , he supposes the christians were obliged to keep easter with the iews on the fourteenth day ; for he takes it for granted , that the bishops of hierusalem did so : as he confesses some of the apostles did ; but the learned primat of armagh , thinks petavius mistaken in this , because although they did then 〈◊〉 the iewish computation , yet he supposes that they did keep easter not with the iews on what day of the week soever it fell , but on the sunday in honour of our saviours resurrections and it cannot be denyed , that narcissus bishop of hierusalem and theophilus of caesarea , with cassius of tyre and clarus of ptolemais , do in their synodical epistle declare , that they agreed with the church of alexandria , viz. in keeping it on the lords day , and that this had been the constant practice of the church of hierusalem . and it is plain epiphanius understood it so , or else it was to no purpose to distinguish in this matter , those who remained in the circumcision , and those which came out of it . but notwithstanding these churches and the western did observe the lords day for the paschal feast , yet in the way of reckoning it , they did observe the iewish computation , both as to the age of the moon and the vernal aequinox . for although constantin in his letter doth upbraid the iews , that they kept their pasch , before the aequinox ( which was then rightly fixed on march . ) yet we are to understand it of the astronomical aequinox , and not of that which was in popular use among them , which might anticipate the other about three dayes , ( because according to their beginning the month nisan from march . the fourteenth of the moon might fall on the eighteenth day , and so their passeover be kept three dayes before the aequinox at the time of the nicene council . ) for , as clavi●s observes , god doth not tye his church to the subtleties of astronomical calculations , but to the common judgement of sense , in which the aequinox hath the latitude of four dayes with us , and as many more in those more southern parts . the like liberty was used in the christian church before the nicene council : for in the council of caesarea , they do allow the celebration of easter before the aequinox , which they then supposed to be march . and yet they reckon three dayes before that among those on which the paschal sunday might fall , as appears by the epistle of one philippus , about the council of caesarea , extant in the works of bede ; wherein , he saith , that after the resurrection or ascension of our saviour , the apostles being dispersed abroad , and employed in preaching the gospel , could appoint nothing concerning the paschal feast ; but did observe it on the fourteenth of the moon what day soever it fell upon . ( thus far sure the brittish and scottish christians were no hereticks in doing as the apostles did ) but after , saith he , the apostles were gone , the christian churches observed different customs , both as to paschal fast and feast ; upon which by the direction of pope victor a council was called at caesarea for setling the way of keeping easter ; where after they have fixed the aequinox on the eighth of the . kal. of april , they determined that the three dayes before should be taken within the paschal limits ; ( so that the sunday for easter might be reckoned on any day from the . kal. of april to the . kal. of may , viz. from the two and twentieth of march to the one and twentieth of april inclusive ; and withal they add , that it should not be lawful for any to exceed these limits . and yet afterwards these limits were so far exceeded , that the latin church in leo ' s time made the cycle of the paschal sundayes to consist of thirty three dayes ; and the alexandrian cycle took in two dayes more , viz. the twenty fourth and twenty fifth of april , because they found the former limits too strait , unless they were understood of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as they called it , i. e. that the anniversary day of our saviours passion should alwayes fall between the two and twentieth of march and one and twentieth of april . § . . the first person who published a paschal canon was hippolytus bishop of porto , a. d. . above an hundred years before the council of nice , which was found a. d. . and set forth by scaliger with notes upon it , in which canon he makes the nearest paschal sunday to be the sixteenth of the moon which is march . beginning the lunar month march . which is one day before the nicene aequinox , and five before that of caesarea : and in which he reckons the paschal sundayes not from the fifteenth to the one and twentieth , but from the sixteenth to the two and twentieth . by which we may easily see , what reason wilfrid had to make the then practice of the roman church to have been the universal practice of the christian church : for the two fundamentals of the rule then in use were , that the paschal sunday should be reckoned from the fifteenth to the one and twentieth , and that it should never be before the aequinox . the first we meet with who laid down this rule about the aequinox , was dionysius of alexandria , who sat there from a. d. . to a. d. . wherein he was followed by anatolius bishop of laodicea , who would by no means have the paschal sunday observed before the aequinox , which he following sosigenes supposed to be march . but made the first easter day to be march . but that which is most observable in him to our purpose , is , that he reckoned neither as the latins from the sixteenth to the two and twentieth , nor as the alexandrians from the fifteenth to the one and twentieth , but from the fourteenth to the twentieth , just as the brittish and scottish chruches did , as appears by the second , fifth and eighteenth of his cycle published out of mss. by aegidius bucherius with learned annotations , and so makes no scruple at all of that , which wilfrid and bede made such a great matter of , viz. of keeping easter day upon the fourteenth , and therein complying with those notable hereticks called the quartodecimani . but anatolius , in the preface to his canon , was so far from supposing an universal consent of the church in his time , that he complains of very different and contrary cycles that were then in use , some following hippolytus his cycle of sixteen ; others the iewish cycle of eighty four ; others a cycle of twenty five ; others of thirty ; and he mentions the endeavours of isidore , hierom , clement and origen , all of aegypt , to compose this matter . but notwithstanding all the care used to settle this controversie , the breaches of the church continued about it ; and if we believe hen. valesius , the inhabitants of syria and mesopotamia had espoused the celebrating easter on the fourteenth day , not long before the council of nice . but what differences soever happened before the council of nice , was not an uniform practice setled by the decree of it , and all churches obliged to reckon the paschal sunday from the fifteenth to the twenty first , and consequently the brittish and scottish churches were guilty of opposing the universal practice of the church at least after the council of nice ? this is all the pretence that i know can be left in this matter ; but neither was this decreed in the council of nice ; nor if it were , was it universally observed after it . a synodical epistle was sent out after the ending of the council , which i suppose was the same with that of constantin ; wherein all christians are disswaded from complyance with the iews , and earnestly exhorted to an agreement upon one day , and the lesser part to submit to the practice of the greater : but no limits are set , no cycle established by the decree of the council . for although dionysius exiguus who brought in the alexandrian cycle into the latin church , would have it believed , that herein he followed the nicene fathers ; yet aegidius bucherius a learned iesuit , hath fully proved , that no cycle or certain rule was at all appointed by the council of nice : although soon after he confesses the cycle of . was found out , ( as he probably thinks , by eusebius of caesarea ) and afterwards perfected by theophilus of alexandria , in the time of theodosius the elder . but if the alexandrian cycle had been determined in the council of nice , how comes it to be omitted in the kalendarium romanum published by herwart , which he saith , was set forth the very year of the nicene council a. d. . wherein though there are dominical letters , yet there are no golden numbers : ( but if he were mistaken in the time , and it came forth in the reign of constantius , the argument will still hold ) . and if there were so universal a consent in the practice of the church after , how came it to pass that s. cyrill of alexandria in his paschal epistle saith , there was so much confusion in the account of easter , in the church , the camp , and the palace ? how came theodosius to send so earnestly to theophilus of alexandria , about it ? but above all , whence came such mighty differences between the eastern and western churches about easter , long after the council of nice ? of which a full account is given by the two learned jesuits , petavius and bucherius : which latter hath at large proved that the latin church did still proceed according to the iewish cycle of eighty four , and not according to the alexandrian of nineteen , and that they reckoned not from fifteen to twenty one , but from sixteen to twenty two : from whence arose those hot contests about the right easter between the bishops of rome and alexandria ; especially in the time of leo in the years . and . and paschasinus in his epistle to leo about the former easter , mentions the romana supputatio , as distinct from that of alexandria , and as the occasion of the dispute . in a. d. . there were eight dayes difference between the easter at rome and at alexandria , which caused great disputes , as may be seen in the letters of leo to martianus and eudocia ; and the answer of proterius bishop of alexandria ; of which prosper in his chronicon saith , that although the latin church did submit for peace sake , yet that it was in the right , and such an example ought not to be followed : and the same prosper doth often mention the cycle of eighty four , as that which the latin church did make use of at that time . but this being found too short and insufficient , victorius was imployed to frame a new paschal canon fitted to the use of the latin church ; which was first printed by bucherius ; wherein , although he differed from the old latin calculation in the beginning of the lunar month , yet he proceeded still in the old way of reckoning from sixteen to twenty two . victorius writ his paschal canon a. d. . to hilarus arch-deacon of rome who succeeded leo ; and it appears that the occasion of writing it , was from the difference between the alexandrian and roman church in the computation of easter ; so hilarus confesses in his epistle to victorius : and victorius shews wherein the difference lay , viz. in three things : the alexandrians began their paschal month from march . and reckoned it to april . inclusive ; the roman church from march . inclusive to april . exclusive . the alexandrians reckoned the fourteenth moon from march . to april . the romans from march . to april . inclusive . the alexandrians reckoned the paschal sunday from the fifteenth inclusive to the one and twentieth . the roman church from the sixteenth to the two and twentieth . now victorius thought by his canon to accommodate the difference between the two churches embracing the alexandrian cycle of nineteen , as more certain than the old latin one of eighty four , but agreeing with the latins in reckoning from sixteen to two and twenty ; and yet according to his canon , the easter sometimes differed eight days from that kept at alexandria : and sometimes it fell a month later than it did according to the former latin computation . but this canon of victorius gave no satisfaction either to the eastern or western church ; all the eastern church followed the patriarch of alexandria , and the church of milan in the west , from the time of s. ambrose as appears by his epistle to the bishops of aemilia : victor bishop of capua writ against victorius his canon , a. d. . upon a new controversie risen in the church about easter day ; but this was twenty five years after dionysius exiguus had brought the alexandrian canon into the use of the roman church , which was a. d. . after which time it did by degrees prevail in the western parts ; but was never fully received in france till it was setled there by the authority of charles the great . § . . this is the short and true account of the paschal controversie , which made so much noise , and gave so great disturbance to the christian church ; let us now bring it home to the case of the brittish and scottish churches , and see what reason wilfrid then , and the roman missionaries since , have had to condemn them . was it that they opposed the universal practice of the christian church in not reckoning from fifteen to twenty one ? but we see the roman church it self had but lately embraced that way of computation ; having before made use of the same cycle the britains did , of eighty four , and reckon'd from sixteen to twenty two . was it , that according to their way different easters would be kept the same year ? but , why should this be worse with the britains and scots , than with the eastern and western churches , which differed sometimes a month in their easter ; as , besides , what hath been mentioned already , appears by the antient laterculus paschalis first published by bucherius , in which he shews , that within the compass of it , viz. an hundred years , the easter of the latins was kept a month sooner than the alexandrians , viz. a. d. , , . and a. d. . a threefold easter was kept , some march . others april . others april . as appears by s. ambrose's epistle written on that occasion . again a. d. . a threefold easter was kept , some keeping it the eighteenth of april , as those which followed victorius , others the twenty fifth of april , viz. those which followed the alexandrian canon ; and others again , even in gaul , as greg. turonensis saith on the . kal. of april , march . the very day of the vernal aequinox : so he tells us , they did in complyance with the spaniards , who it seems thought it no heresie so to do , even after the decree of the council of nice . but i suppose the main fault of the brittish and scottish churches was , that at some times it would so happen that they might keep their easter - day on the fourteenth of the moon , and so comply with the iews . was this it in truth which unchurched them all , and rendred their ordinations null ? the apostles i am sure did far more in complyance with the iews than this came to , as to matter of circumcision and other things , and even in this point , if ecclesiastical history may be credited , and yet i hope their ordinations were good , and the churches orthodox which they planted . methinks , it might have been called complyance with the apostles as well with as the iews ? and will indeed complyance with an apostolical practice unchurch whole nations ? it must be surely only with the church of rome that it can do so . and yet did not the church of rome it self comply with the iews in the use of their cycle , and in the beginning of their lunar month on the fifth , and not on the eighth of march as the alexandrians ? and why should one sort of complyance unchurch people , and not another ? if every complyance doth it , farewell to the church of rome it self and her ordinations , even after the nicene council . but , what if after all this , the church of rome after the embracing the alexandrian cycle , did comply more with the iews than the brittish churches did in keeping their easter on the fourteenth of the moon : for by that canon they were to keep it on the fifteenth , and that was the great festival day among the iews , for on the evening of the fourteenth they did eat their bitter herbs , but the next day was the solemn festival : and i would ●ain understand whether it were not a greater complyance with the iews to feast the same day they did , than to keep that for a festival , on which they eat their bitter herbs , and began the passeover only on the evening ? besides , they who kept it on the fifteenth , must celebrate the memory of christs passion before the fourteenth , which certainly was as great an incongruity as could happen by keeping it on the fourteenth . but supposing it were a complyance with the iews ; it is plain it was not a studied and designed complyance with them ; for they kept their easter on the lords day in opposition to them ; only it happened once in seven years , saith mr. cressy , that the fourteenth of the moon and easter met , and then they kept it with the iews ; if this were it which unchurched them ; how hard was it for such britains and scots to enter into the kingdom of heaven ! or rather , how hard is it for such who can unchurch whole nations of christians on such pittiful accounts as these ? s. paul would have said , i will keep no easter while the world stands , rather than destroy whole churches of such for whom christ dyed . but what do we meddle with s. paul ; they are only the usurpers of s. peter's chair , that dare so easily , in their own opinion , send whole churches to hell ; viz. for doing no more in effect , than themselvs had done not long before . nay , to conclude all , it is very probably supposed by two learned persons , that what the brittish and scottish churches , at that time accounted the fourteenth of the moon , was in truth the sixteenth , ( whether by the correction of sulpitius severus , as bishop usser supposes , or the shortness of the cycle , as bucherius ; is no matter at all ) . and i hope all persons shall not be presently sent to hell , that do mistake in the computation of easter , according to the judgement of the roman church ; for then god have mercy on all those that do not follow the gregorian accompt . and i think the difference as great and a weighty now , as it was in the famous dispute between wilfrid and colman : but if notwithstanding this difference the brittish and scottish christians were very good christians , and so many english churches were planted by them , mr. cressy must harden his forehead in standing to it , that the english saxons were converted by benedictin monks . chap. v. of the poenal laws against papists . § . . i am now come to that which mr. cressy looks upon as a very important subject , and deserving serious consideration ; which is , how far those who acknowledge subjection to a forreign power , as all english catholicks do , can give satisfaction to the state of their fidelity to his majesty ? which , he saith , the person of honour repeats in several places , and is most accurately descanted upon in his nine questions near the conclusion of his book . i shall therefore give a short account of what the person of honour saith upon this subject ; and then consider what mr. cressy offers by way of reply to it . . he saith , that the personal authority of the pope , was that , and that only which first made the schism , and still continues it , and is the ground of all the animosity of the english catholicks against the church of england , and produced their separation from it ; and if they will renounce all that personal authority in the pope , and any obedience to it within his majesties kingdoms , they will purge themselves of all such jealousie , or suspicion of their fidelity , as may prove dangerous to the kingdom , and against which the laws are provided : because it is their dependance on a forreign jurisdiction , which makes them or their opinions taken notice of by the politick government of the kingdom . . that it is necessary for the personal security of kings and princes , and for the peace and quiet of kingdoms , that it may be clearly made manifest , what the authority and power is , that a forreign prince doth challenge in another princes dominions contrary to , and above the laws of the land , and what obedience it is that subjects may pay to such a forreign prince , without the privity , and contrary to the command of his own soveraign ; which cannot be done by a general answer , but by distinct assigning the bounds of the popes temporal and spiritual power in england ; and what the full intent of them is , that the king may discern whether he hath enough of either to preserve himself and the peace of the kingdom . . that till such time as the roman-catholick subjects of england give as good security to the king for their fidelity and peaceable behaviour , as all his other subject do , they have no cause to wonder that they may be made subject to such laws and restraints , as may disable them from being dangerous ; when they profess to owe obedience to a forreign prince , who doth as much profess not to be a friend to their countrey , and will not declare what that obedience is . . that the roman catholick subjects of england have a more immediate dependance on the pope , than is allowed in any catholick countryes : and that those who under pretence of religion refuse to declare , that it is in no earthly power to absolve them from their fidelity to the king , do refuse to give as full satisfaction and security for their allegiance , as catholick subjects do give for their fidelity to catholick kings : there being no french roman catholick who dares refuse to do it . . that there is so much the more reason to require this , since the late instance of the irish rebellion , wherein the pope absolved the kings subjects from their oaths , and took upon himself to be their general in the person of his nuntio , and assumed the exercise of the regal power , both at land and sea , and imprisoned those catholicks , and threatned to take away their lives who had promoted the peace , and desired to return to the kings subjection ; and hath since given a severe check to those of the irish nobility and clergie , who had declared that the pope had no power to dispense with their fidelity to his majesty , or to absolve them from any oaths they should take to that purpose : and imployed his nuntio to discountenance and suppress that declaration , and to take care that it should proceed no further ; and that cardianl barbarine at that same time put them in mind , that the kingdom of england was still under excommunication ; and since that , the pope hath made many bishops in ireland , which his predecessors had forborn to do from the death of queen elizabeth , to a. d. . and therefore there is no reason to believe , that the court of rome doth recede from its former principles , as to these things . § . . these several particulars carry so much weight along with them , as may easily raise the expectation of any one , to see what mr. cressy will reply to them . and in truth he enters the field like a champion ; for he saith , his apologie is published permissu superiorum ; and what he writes on this special subject , he desires the person of honour to consider , not as the inconsiderable opinion of one particular person only . and he doth assure him , that there is not any one point of controversie upon which they more earnestly desire to be summoned to give an account before equal iudges , than this . thus he enters the lists , and walks his ground , and brandishes his sword , and makes legs to the judges with more than ordinary assurance , and fails in no point of a champion , but overcoming his adversary . which he is so far from , that after these bravado's and flourishes he dares not stand before him ; but looks round about him to discern any way to escape . but although it be beneath the greatness of his adversary , to pursue him over all his bogs , and to draw him out of his fastnesses ; yet i shall endeavour to bring him into the lists again , that his adversary may not go away blushing at so mean a triumph . there are five things which mr. cressy offers at by way of answer to the discourse of the person of honour on this subject . . that there is no reason to suspect the catholick subjects of england to be more wanting in fidelity to their prince than of other nations , whose catholick ancestors were so far from acknowledging any supremacy of the pope in temporals , and much less any authority in him to depose princes , that even in those times when church-men had the greatest power in this kingdom , statutes were made with the joynt votes of the clergic upon occasion of some usurpations of the roman court , in which the penalty was no less than a praemunire against any one who without the kings license should make any appeals to rome , or submit to a legats jurisdiction , or upon the popes summons go out of the kingdom , or receive any mandats or brieffs from rome , or purchase bulls for presentments to churches : and which is most considerable , the ground of their rejecting papal usurpations is thus expressed , for the crown of england is free , and hath been free from earthly subjection at all times , being immediately subject to god in all things touching the regalities of the same , and not subject to the pope ; to which he saith , the bishops assented , and the lords and commons declared their resolution to stand with the king in the cases aforesaid , and in all other cases attempted against him his crown and regalitie in all points , to live and to dye . . that whatsoever they suffer here in england by vertue of the poenal laws , it is purely for their religion and the catholick faith ; and therefore he parallels our poenal laws , with those of the medes and persians against daniel ; and of nero , domitian and dioclesian against the apostles and their successors : and yet mr. cressy confesses , that the occasion of the poenal laws , was the treasonable actions of some of their own religion ; but he adds , that they were scarce one score of persons , and abhorred by all the rest , for which actions of theirs , he confesseth , that care is taken of exacting oaths both of fidelity and supremacy from roman catholicks as dangerous subjects ; and dayes of thanksgiving are kept for the discovery and prevention of such personal treasons ; whereas , saith he , the whole kingdoms deliverance from almost an universal rebellion designing the extinction of monarchy and prelacy both , and executing the murder of the lawful soveraign is not esteemed a sufficient motive for such publick thanksgivings , neither it seems is there at all a necessity of requiring from any a retraction of the principles of rebellion , or a promise that it shall not be renewed . by which we might think mr. cressy had been utterly a stranger in his own countrey , and had never heard of the thirtieth of ianuary or the twenty ninth of may , which are solemnly observed in our church , and the offices joyned with that of the fifth of november , and are purposely intended for that very thing which he denyes to be taken notice of by us , in such a manner . what must we say to such men ? who openly and to our faces deny that , which the whole nation knows to be true . these stories might have passed abroad , where they have been wont to lye for the catholick cause , but to have the impudence to say such things here , which every boy can confute , is not the way to advance the reputation of their church among us . and what doth mr. cressy think , the renuntiation of the covenant was intended for , if not to prevent the mischief of the former rebellion ? and is it possible for any man who knows the laws of his countrey concerning these matters , to dare to say in the face of the kingdom , that it seems there is no necessity at all of requiring from any a retraction of the principles of rebellion , or a promise it shall never be renewed ? if this be the way of defending the innocency of roman catholicks , i had rather be accounted guilty , than have my innocency thus defended . . he saith , we also confidently affirm , ( so we have seen he hath done too much already ) that by vertue of the spiritual iurisdiction inherent in the pope , the temporal rights and power of the king ( or even of the meanest of his subjects ) are not at all abridged , or prejudiced . which assertion , he saith , hath been alwayes maintained in france , the pope not contradicting it ; from whence it follows , that it is agreeable to catholick religion . after this i expected he should speak home to the purpose , and say , this is all the power challenged by the pope as to england , or owned by any roman catholicks here ; which , finding what he had affirmed about other matters , i thought he would have made no scruple of ; but i see he durst not , either for conscience or meer shame . but how then doth he get over this difficulty ? why english catholicks , saith he , should be suspected not to be as tender of the just rights and precious lives also of their soveraign , as the catholick subjects of any other kingdom , and why they should be thought to be willing to acknowledge any temporal power director indirect , to be inherent in the pope over the king or kingdom , to which not any catholick gentleman or nobleman would submit , i cannot imagine . i am very much to seek for the sense of this , and know not what the submitting relates to ; but i suppose something left out , or struck out by his superiours , who did not take care to leave sense behind : but is this indeed all the security mr. cressy offers , that he cannot imagine it should be otherwise here than in france ? we find , when he pleases , he can imagine strange things : and is this only out of the reach of his imagination ? what doth he think , of the kingdoms being under excommunication at rome , as cardinal barbarine takes care to put the irish nobility in mind , for some good end doubtless . is the kingdom of france so ? what doth he imagine of bulls from rome prohibiting the taking the oaths required ? are there any such things in france ? what doth he think of the popes nuntio appearing in the head of an army , and absolving the kings subjects from their allegiance ? i confess , it was not much better in france in the time of the holy league ; but what opinion had they of the popes temporal power then ? cannot mr. cressy imagine that there are such people in england as iesuits ? and it is not many years since their reasons were therefore shewed to be unreasonable in pleading an exemption from the sanguinary laws , because they did hold the popes power of deposing princes , and absolving subjects from their allegiance . and do not the iesuitical party still plead that their opinion is the common doctrine of their church , confirmed by general councils , and approved by multitudes of divines of all sorts ; and that the contrary is only asserted here , by a very inconsiderable party , whereof some are excommunicated at rome for their zeal in this matter ? and do not we know , how much greater sway the iesuitical party hath among the nobility and gentry , than the despised secular priests ? i do not at all question , but the nobility and gentry of england would do as much to preserve the just rights and precious lives of their soveraigns , as of any nation in the world , and have as great a sense of their own honour as well as interest , and of the duty they owe to their countrey . but ought not the laws to take so much the more care to keep their consciences untainted in these things ? they being such persons whose loyalty cannot be corrupted , but under a pretence of conscience ; and their consciences being so much in danger , by being under the direction chiefly of those who are the sworn servants to the papal power . . he offers by way of satisfaction concerning their fidelity , that they will subscribe the french declaration lately made by the sorbon , or the censure of the faculty of paris a. d. . and that very few if any at all would refuse subscription to that form prescribed by the state , in case that unlucky word heretical were left out . as though all those who had hitherto refused to take that oath , had done it only upon this nicety , that the word heretical were to be taken not in the sense of the givers , but of the takers of the oath : whereas mr. cressy himself saith , that common reason teaches , that all oaths , professions and promises are to be understood in the sense of those who frame and require them , and not of those upon whom they are imposed . but if this were all the ground of refusing this oath among any of them , mr. cressy therein charges them with the want of common reason : whereas i shall make it appear in the progress of this discourse , that this was far from being the true and only reason of roman catholicks refusing the oath of allegiance . . that since ordination abroad doth not in the least render english priests defective in their duties to the civil magistrate ; it will follow that whatsoever penalty is inflicted on them on such an account , is not inflicted according to the rule of iustice , and by consequence that whatsoever blood shall be shed , the guilt of it before god will be imputed to the whole kingdom , since it is shed by vertue of the whole kingdoms votes , and consent given long since upon motives long since ceased . and therefore he charges it deeply upon my conscience to endeavour to free the whole kingdom from such a guilt . this is the substance of what mr. cressy saith upon this very important subject , as himself calls it ; and by vertue whereof he hopes , the poenal laws may be repealed , and those of their religion may enjoy the liberty of their religion and all the rights of free-born subjects . which are things too important to be debated in such a manner by persons who by making reflections on the iustice and wisdom of a nation do endeavour to expose the laws and government of it to the censure and reproach of the malicious and ignorant . but since our laws are so publickly accused of injustice and cruelty , and the kingdom charged with the guilt of innocent blood , i hope i may have leave as an english man to vindicate the laws of our countrey , and as a protestant to wipe off the aspersion of cruelty from our religion : which i shall do without the least intention of mischief to any mens persons , or of sharpening the severities of laws against them . § . . and to proceed with the greatest clearness in this matter , i shall consider , . the charge of injustice and cruelty which he lays upon our poenal laws . . the proposals he makes in order to the repeal of them , and giving a full liberty to the exercise of their religion . . the charge of injustice and cruelty upon our poenal laws . whosoever adventures to charge the publick laws of a kingdom in such a manner ought to be very well advised upon what grounds he proceeds ; and to understand throughly the nature , and constitution of government and rules of iustice , and the power of interpreting as well as making laws , and the certain bounds within which laws may make actions treasonable , and how far actions thought religious by the persons who do them , may become treasonable when they are against laws made for the publick safety ; and what actions of religion make men martyrs when they suffer for them and what not ; for it is certain , they are not all of equal consequence and necessity ; these and many other things a man ought to come well provided with , that dares in the face of the world to charge the laws of his own nation with injustice and cruelty . but mr. cr. may be excused in this matter , for that would indeed be an unjust and cruel law to require impossibilities from men : i wish so noble a subject had been undertaken by a person fit for it , that could have managed it otherwise than in a bare declamatory manner . but since he is the goliah that dares so openly defie our laws and government , i shall make use of his own weapons to cut off the heads of this terrible accusation . for , . he grants , that the laws made by their catholick ancestors , viz. the statutes of praemunire and provisors were just laws . . that our king hath reason to expect as much security of the fidelity of his catholick subjects , as any catholick prince hath from his . . that all christian kings have in some sense a kind of spiritual authority , that they ought to be nursing fathers to gods church , that they ought to promote true christian doctrine both touching faith and manners , and to imploy their power when occasion is , to oblige even ecclesiastical persons to perform their duties , and all their subjects to live in all christian piety and vertue . these are his o●n words , which in short come to this , that they are bound to promote and pre●erve the true religion . . that it is absolutely unlawful for them to defend their religion , being persecuted by soveraign magistrates , by any other way but suffering : which , he saith , they do sincerely profess according to their perswasion . . that the treasonable actions of persons of their own religion were the occasion of making and continuing the poenal laws : for upon their account , he saith , they are thought dangerous subjects , and care is taken to exact oaths of allegiance and supremacy from them . . that where the popes temporal power is owned , especially as to deposing princes , there can be no sufficient security given as to the fidelity of such persons . this i prove from his saying , that there is no reason to question their fidelity , whose ancestors were so far from any supremacy of the pope in temporals , and much less any authority in him to depose princes , that they made the statutes of praemunire and provisors , ( which by his favour is a very weak argument , unless men can never be supposed to degenerate from the vertues of their ancestors ) but besides , the satisfaction he offers , is by renouncing the popes temporal power , and declaring that his power of deposing princes , and absolving subjects from their allegiance , is repugnant to the word of god , although they dare not call it heretical ; from whence it follows , that mr. cressy doth not think those can give sufficient security for their fidelity , who dare not thus far renounce the popes power . . that where there is no sufficient security given for the fidelity of persons , there is great reason they should lye under the severity of laws . which mr. cressy alwayes supposes ; and only complains of their hardship upon the offers he makes of their fidelity . and this must hold as to all sorts of persons who may be dangerous to government , although they may pretend never so much exemption by their function , or being imployed in offices not immediately relating to civil government . from these concessions it will be no difficult task to clear our poenal laws from injustice , and to vindicate the whole kingdom from the guilt of innocent blood , if i can prove these following assertions . . that the same reasons which justifie the antient statutes of england and the laws of catholick princes abroad , do vindicate our poenal laws from the charge of injustice and cruelty . . that laws originally made upon the account of acknowledged treasonable practices , do continue just upon all those who do not give sufficient security against the principles leading to those practices . . that the same reasons which justifie the antient statutes of england , and the laws of catholick princes abroad , do vindicate our poenal laws from the charge of injustice and cruelty . for if the penalties do bear no greater proportion to the nature of the offence ; if the power be as great and as just in our law-makers ; if the occasions were of as high a nature , and the pleas in behalf of the persons equal : then there can be no reason assigned why those laws should be just and lawful , and not ours . and the making out of these things is my present business . . i begin with the antient laws and statutes of england . and i hope no one dares question , but that the power of makeing laws is as good and just in england since the reformation , as ever it was before : for if there be the least diminution of power by vertue of the cutting off the popes authority , then so much of the civil power as was lost by it , was derived from the pope : and this is in plain terms to make the pope our temporal soveraign , and the whole kingdom to be only feudatary to him : which is asserting his temporal power with a vengeance ; and contains in it a doctrine that none but very self-denying princes can ever give the least countenance to ; because it strikes at the very root of their authority , and makes them only precarious princes , ( and in a much more proper sense than the popes use that title , the servants of servants . ) supposing then the legislative and civil power to be equal since the reformation and before ; our work is to compare the other circumstances together ; and if it appear , that the plea of conscience and religion did equally hold then , and notwithstanding that the penalties were as great , upon the same or far less occasions , i hope our laws will at least appear as just and reasonable as those were . § . . to make this out , i must give an account of the state of those times , and the reasons and occasions which moved the law-makers to enact those poenal statutes : in which i shall shew these two things . . that they began upon a controversie of religion ; and that the poenal laws were made against those persons who pleaded religion . . that the reasons and occasions of the poenal laws since the reformation were at least as great as those . . that the antient poenal laws were made upon a controversie of religion : and to give a clear account of the rise and occasion of them , i must begin from the norman conquest ; for then those foundations were laid of all the following controversies which happened between the civil and ecclesiastical power . on the behalf of the ecclesiastical power was the plea of conscience and religion , on the behalf of the civil power nothing but the just rights of princes , and the necessary preservation of their own and the publick safety . and this controversie between the two powers was managed with so much zeal , and such pretences of conscience on the behalf of the ecclesiastical power , that the civil power , notwithstanding the courage of some princes , and the resolution of parliaments , had much ado to stand its ground , or to be able to preserve it self from the encroachments and usurpations of the other . so that to see princes give any countenance to the same pretences would be almost as strange , as to see them turn common-wealths-men . i know there were good laws frequently made to strengthen the civil power ; but the very frequency of them shewed how ineffectual they were ; for what need many laws to the same purpose , if the first had any force at all ? and the multiplication of laws for the same thing , is a certain sign of defect in the government . to undeceive therefore all those who judge of the state of affairs by the book of statutes , i shall deduce the history of this great controversie between the ecclesiastical and civil power in england , so far as to shew the necessity there was found of putting an issue to it , by casting out the popes pretended power and iurisdiction in this nation . the two first who began this dispute , were both men of great spirits and resolute in their undertakings ; i mean william the conqueror and gregory the seventh , who was the first pope that durst speak out ; and he very freely declares his mind about the subjection of the civil power to the ecclesiastical , and the exemption of all ecclesiastical persons and things from the civil power . in his epistle to herimanus bishop of metz about the excommunication of henry the fourth , and absolving his subjects from their allegiance ; he thus expresses himself ; shall not that power which was first found out by men who knew not god , be subject to that which god himself hath appointed for his own honor in the world , and the head of which is the son of god ? who knows not that kings and dukes had their beginnings from men who gained their authority over their equals by blind ambition and intolerable presumption , by rapines and murders , by perfidiousness and all manner of wickedness ? is not this a very pretty account of the original of civil power by the head of the church ? but this is not all ; for he adds , while princes make gods priests to be subject to them , to whom may we better compare them than to him , who is the head over all the sons of pride , who tempted the son of god with promising him all the kingdoms of the world , if he would fall down and worship him ? this is better and better ; it seems it is as bad as the sin of lucifer , for princes not to be subject to the pope ; and it is like the devils tempting christ , to offer to make priests subject to the civil power . who doubts , saith he , that christs priests are to be accounted the fathers and masters of kings aud princes and all the faithful ? now , saith he , is it not a lamentable madness , if the son should offer to make the father subject to him ( but one of his successors did not think so , that set up henry the fifth against his own father ) or the scholar his master , or to think to bind him on earth , by whom he expects to be loosed in heaven ? these were the demonstrations of that age , and the main supports of the cause ▪ and in his epistle to william king of england , he tells him , that god had appointed two kinds of government for mankind , the apostolical and regal ( that is much , that the same government should come only from the sins of men , and yet be from the appointment of god : but we are to consider he writ this to a king whom he hoped to perswade , and therefore would not tell him the worst of his thoughts about the beginnings of civil power ) but , saith he , these two powers , like the sun and moon , have that inequality by the christian religion , that the royal power next under god is to be under the care and management of the apostolical . and since the apostolical see is to give an account to god of the miscarriages of princes , his wisdom ought to consider , whether he ought not without farther delay take an oath of fealty to him . for no less than that would content him : but william was not so meek a prince to be easily brought to this , as robert of sicily , richard of capua , bertram of provence , rodulphus , and several others were , whose oaths of fealty to him are extant in the collection or register of his epistles . but william gives him a resolute answer , which is extant among the epistles of lanfranc ; that for the oath of fealty , he had not done it , neither would he , because he never promised it , neither did he find that ever his predecessors had done it to gregories predecessors . the pope storms at this , and writes a chiding letter to lanfranc arch-bishop of canterbury ; who like a better subject to the pope than to the king , writes an humble excuse for himself to the pope , and tells him , he had done his endeavour to perswade the king , but could not prevail with him : and cardinal baronius saith , the pope took it very ill at his hands , considering the kindness he had received from the papal see. for alexander the second favoured his cause against harold , and sent him a consecrated banner ; and if we may believe henricus de silgrave , the pope gave him his title to the crown of england , on condition that he should hold it in fee from the papal see : but i find no such thing mentioned by ingulphus , or gulielmus pictaviensis , who understood the conquerors affairs as well as any , being about him at that time ; neither would gregory the seventh have omitted it : but however bertholdus constantiensis , or rather bernaldus an author of that time , and the popes poenitentiary , affirms confidently , that william king of england made this whole nation tributary to the pope ; which there is no pretence for , but only that he , after some demurr , caused the antient eleem●synarie peter-pence , to be sent to rome . so careful had princes need to be , of the continuance of gifts to rome , which in time are looked on as a tribute ; and that tribute an acknowledgement of fealty ; and that fealty proves a subjection in temporals . but this was not the only dispute between these two conquerors , for gregory the seventh at the same time that he sent hubert his legat to england about the oath of feal●y , he sent hugo to keep a council in france against the investitures of bishops by lay-hands , and afterwards in a council at rome , solemnly condemned them ; and threatned deposition to all that received them , and the vengeance of god upon those that gave them . the bottom of which lay not in the pretence of simony , but because it was too great a token of their subjection to the civil power ; and gregory the seventh was , as bertholdus saith , a most zealous defender of ecclesiastical liberty , i. e. the total exemption of ecclesiastical persons from subjection to the civil power ; and eadmerus saith , that the bishops made their homage to the king before they received investiture by the staff and the ring . but notwithstanding all these decrees and threatnings , william the conquerour , as that author tells us , would never part with the rights of the crown in this matter : and he declares that he would not only keep the antient saxon custom of investiture , ( as ingulphus and other authors shew it to have been ) but all the antient customs of his predecessors in normandy relating to ecclesiastical affairs : so that all ecclesiastical as well as civil things , saith eadmerus , were under his command . these customs were , . that none should be acknowledged pope , but whom the king pleased . . that no bulls should be received , but such as were approved by the king. . that nothing should be decreed in provincial councils , but by his approbation . . that no persons about the king should be excommunicated without his knowledge : but besides , pope gregory charged him with two more enormities , viz. . hindering all appeals to rome of bishops and arch-bishops : which was such a thing , he saith that a heathen would not have done it . . seizing upon the person of his brother odo being a bishop and imprisoning him ; which he said was plainly against scripture , qui vos tangit , tangit pupillam oculi mei ; & nolite tangere christos meos ; which no doubt were understood of the archbishops and bishops of the patriarchal and iewish church . but i do not find that king william did at all recede from the rights of his crown , although the pope according to his skill quoted scripture against them ; and although the bishop of baieux was clapt up on the account of treason , as our historians agree , yet in pope gregories opinion he suffered for religion and the preservation of divine laws : and such men as mr. cressy might have compared such laws with those of nero and domitian ; but i think they durst not have done it in the conquerours time ; who at the council of illebon in normandy declared his resolution to maintain the customs of his predecessors , relating to ecclesiastical affairs . § . . after the death of gregory the seventh , there was no pope acknowledged in england for eleven years , because of the schism between urban and clement ; and our king had declared for neither of them : and william rufus told anselm , who would fain have gone to urban the second for his pall , that he had not yet acknowledged him for pope , and therefore he should not go . and , saith he , if you own him without my authority , you break your faith to me , and displease me as much as if you did endeavour to take away my crown : anselm however stands upon it , that himself had owned him for pope , and would do so whatever came of it ; and would not depart from his obedience for an hour . a parliament being called at rockingham upon this occasion , the nobility and bishops all advised him to submit to the king. anselm notwithstanding cryes , tues petrus & super hanc petram , &c. & qui vos tangit , tangit pupillam oculi , as gregory the seventh had done before him , and to as much purpose ; but no such things , saith he , are said of kings or princes , or dukes or earles ; and therefore he resolved to adhere to the pope : the king being acquainted with his answer , sends some of the nobles and bishops to him , to let him know , that the whole kingdom was against him , and that hereby he endeavoured to take away one of the flowers of his crown from him , by depriving him of one of the antient rights of it : and withal that he acted contrary to his oath to the king. anselm ( if we may believe eadmerus , who lived in his time , and was his constant companion ) stood upon his priviledge , that an archbishop of canterbury could be judged by none but the pope : and so by that means was wholly exempt from the royal power : and he bore all the affronts he met with patiently out of his firm devotion to the papal see. the bishop of durham whose advice the king asked in this matter , told him , that anselm had the word of god and authority of s. peter of his side . the king said , he would never endure one equal to himself in his kingdom : and therefore took off his protection from him , and commands the nobility and bishops to disown him : and banishes his counsellors , and gives him time for a final answer . the mean while the king tryes by several arts to gain him , viz. by sending to urban secretly for the pall , and acknowledging him to be pope , and at last they brought it to this issue , that he should receive the pall at the kings hands , which he utterly refused to do , and would take it no otherwise but off from the altar of canterbury . after this , he desires leave to go to the pope , the king denyes it , he persists in his intreaty , the king absolutely denyes it , he resolves to go however , because , saith he , it is better to obey god than men . as though god had commanded him to disobey the king in this matter . when the bishops had disswaded him from it , and told him they would keep their fidelity to the king : go , saith he , then to your lord , and i will hold to my god. did he mean the same god which the gloss upon the canon law speaks of , our ●ord god the pope ? and it is hard to conceive any other could be meant in this case . the king sends some of the bishops and barons to him to put him in mind of his oath to observe the laws and customs of the realm ; he told him they were to be understood with the reservation of being according to god , and that it was not so , to keep him from going to the pope , and therefore he would not observe it ; and so takes his leave of the king to be gone ; and the king after his going seizes upon all his profits . i desire to know of such as mr. cressy , whether the king or anselm were in the right in all this affair ? and if the king had used greater severity to him , whether anselm had suffered on the account of religion or treason ? but he complains to the pope , that the law of god , and authority of the pope and canons were overwhelmed by the customs of the realm ; and therefore he resigns his archbishoprick to him , and desires the pope to put one into it ; which was contrary to the antient rights of the king : the pope in a council at rome solemnly excommunicates all lay-persons that gave investitures of churches , and all that received them , and all ecclesiastical persons that paid homage to princes , saying it was very unfit that they who made their god , should put their hands into the obscene and cruel hands of princes : as eadmerus relates it , who was present in the council . § . . after the death of rufus , anselm returns for england , the new king henry the first demands the accustomed homage from him , he denyes it , and gives the late council at rome for his reason ; adding further , if the king would submit to the decrees of that council , there would be peace between them , otherwise he would be gone again . the king was very unwilling to part with the rights of his predecessors in the investiture and homage of bishops ; for saith eadmerus , it seemed to him as much as to lose half his kingdom : and yet was afraid to let anselm go , lest by his means the pope should have set up his brother roberts title against him ; the king being in this strait , endeavours to gain time , and sends ambassadors to the pope , to try , if he could procure his consent , to let him enjoy his own rights : pope paschal the second in his long epistle to henry , absolutely condemns them , as inconsistent with god , with justice , or with salvation : and adds that to the wit of his predecessors , that it was a monstrous thing for a son to beget a father , or a man to make a god ; ( but urban gave that , as a reason against it , because priests were men that did make a god ) now priests , saith he , in scripture are called gods ; and are not princes or secular powers ? the king not at all moved with this bull , requires from anselm either to pay him homage , and to consecrate those that had received investitures from him , or immediately to be gone out of the kingdom : and withal declares , that he would preserve the rights of his predecessors , nor would endure any in his kingdom that would not do him homage ; the nobility and the rest of the bishops joyn with the king , and used all perswasions to keep him from submitting to the pope . the king hoping to compose this matter , sends three bishops to the pope to let him know , saith eadmerus , that if the king did not enjoy his rights , he would banish anselm and renounce the pope . but brompton hath the smart letter the king sent upon this occasion , wherein he tells him , he would not fail of that respect and obedience which his predecessors had shewn to the popes , on condition that all the honors , uses and customs which his father had in his predecessors times might be freely enjoyed by him ; and that by the help of god none of them should be lessened in his time ; and if , saith he , which god forbid , i should be so base to let them go ; yet my nobility , nay , the whole people would by no means suffer it . the pope told them , he would not yield to the king in this matter to save his life ; and writes word to the king , that by the judgement of the holy ghost he had forbidden all investitures by princes : and encourages anselm in his opposition to the king , with some impertinent texts of scripture . ( for of all men , the popes , notwithstanding their pretence to infallibility , have been very unhappy in applying scripture in their bulls ; and it would be one of the strangest commentaries that ever the world saw , to set down the places of scripture produced by them with their interpretations of them : but that is not my present business . ) the king called together the great men of the nation in council at london : and sends some of them to anselm , to know , whether he would observe the customs of his predecessors or be gone ? the bishops pretending private instructions contrary to the popes bulls , anselm desires time to know the popes mind , and still stands to the popes letters ; upon which the king told him , he would bear these delays no longer ; quid mihi de meis cum papa ; what have i to do with the pope about my own subjects ? what rights my predecessors had , are mine too : whosoever would take them away from me is my enemy , and every one that is my friend knows it . anselm tells him , that to save his life he would not contradict the popes decrees unless he were absolved by him . the king would not so much as hear of the popes bulls , nor suffer others to do it , which grieved anselm much ; and away he goes again to receive comfort from the pope . the king sends an ambassadour to the pope , who told him his master would lose his kingdom rather than the investiture of bishops ; the pope very graciously replyed , before god i will lose my head rather than he shall quietly enjoy them . but at last , the pope was content he should enjoy other customes excepting this of investitures ; the king was not at all satisfied with this , but sends word to anselm he must not set foot on english ground unless he would promise to observe the former customs of the realm : which he still refused to do , and after several endeavours to compose this difference , the king was at last forced to yield up the ancient right of investiture , and retain only homage , which the pope and anselm were at present contented with ; but this agreement held not long ; for notwithstanding the pope did lay so much weight on this business of investitures , ( as besides what is mentioned already , he said , that christ dyed in vain if lay-investitures were allowed ) yet the king was certainly informed that this same pope had yielded investitures to t●e emperour henry . as florentius wigorniensis and malmsbury report , and therefore anselm writes to the pope , that the king would resume his too : and it is evident he did so , for matth. paris and westminster say expresly , that the king invested the next archbishop of canterbury , with a staff and a ring after the ancient custom : which was after the lateran council wherein the pope again revoked the emperours priviledge about investitures , which he saith , is contrary to the holy ghost and the canonical institution . but where was the holy ghost then when he granted this priviledge ? after this , the pope complains of the king for retaining the other ancient rights , of hindering appeals to rome and not receiving legats ; but at last pope calixtus yielded to the king the enjoyment of the customs which his father had in england and normandy . was not this pope very kind to the king who so patiently yielded to those customs which his predecessors had condemned as contrary to religion , and making christs death to no purpose ? the same callis●us . in the council of lateran , a. d. mcxxii . put an end to the controversie of investitures in the roman empire : yielding to the emperour the right of investitures so it were performed without simony , and by a scepter and not by a staff and a ring ; because , forsooth , if it had been done by a ring , it made it a kind of marriage , and so made a spiritual adultery between the bishop and his church ; as the former popes very learnedly proved in their epistles against investitures . § . . this controversie being at an end , the popes bethought themselves of a more subtle way of effecting their design , which was by engaging the bishops by oaths of fidelity and obedience to themselves , as well as taking away their homages and fealty to princes , that so with less noise and more security , they might compass the design of ecclesiastical liberty or rather slavery to the pope . gregory . urban . and paschal . did all forbid clargy-men to give any homage to princes , as petrus de marca proves from the authentick acts of their several councils ; instead of which they required an oath of fealty to themselves . for it was not a bare oath of canonical obedience , which the popes required , but as much an oath of fealty and allegiance , as ever princes require from their other subjects : which will be made appear by comparing the oaths together . the most ancient form of allegiance i meet with , is that prescribed in the capitular of charles the great , which is contained in very few words . promitto ego partibus domini mei caroli regis & filiorum ejus , quia fidelis sum & ero diebus vitae meae sine fraude vel malo ingenio , as it is in the old edition of the constitutions ; but in the latter out of sirmondus his copy it is somewhat larger . promitto ego quod ab isto die in antea fidelis sum domino carolo piissimo imperatori pura mente absque fraude & malo ingenio de meâ parte ad suam partem & ad honorem regni sui , sicut per drictam debet esse homo domino suo . the ancient form used in this nation ran thus , tu jurabis quod ab ista die in antea eris fidelis & legalis domino nostro regi & suis haeredibus ; & fidelitatem & legalitatem ei portabis de vitâ & de membro & de terreno honore , & quod tu eorum malum aut damnum nec noveris nec audiveris quod non defendes pro posse tuo , ita te deus adjuvet : now let us compare these with the oath made to the pope ; i shall take that form which is published out of the vatican ms. by odoricus raynaldus , which was taken by edmund archbishop of canterbury . ego edmundus , &c. ab hac hora in antea fidelis & obediens ero s. petro & s. r. e. & d. papae gregerio suisque successoribus canonicè intrantibus . nonero in facto neque in consilio , aut consensio ut vitam perdant , aut membrum , aut capiantur malâ captione . consilium vero quod mihi credituri sunt per se , aut per nuntios suos sive per liter as ad corum damnum , mesciente , nemini pandam . papatum romanum & regalia sancti petri aajutor eis ero ad retinendum & defendendum salvo meo ordine contra omnem hominem , &c. this is enough to shew , that if the other were properly oaths of allegiance to princes , this is so to the pope , and thereby they are bound to the very same obedience to the pope as their soveraign , as anymen are to their own princes . for here is no exception at all of the rights of princes and the duty they owe to them ; not the least notice being taken of them , as though they did owe them any allegiance : which we plainly see was never intended should be paid by those who first imposed this oath . that learned gentleman sir roger twisden supposes this oath to have been framed by paschal . and it is certain , that rodulphus being made archbishop of canterbury in his time , is the first we read among us , that took an oath of fidelity to the pope , with that of canonical obedience : after whose time we frequently meet with it , but not before : but in truth , it is the very same oath , only applying it to church-men , which richard of capua took by way of fealty to gregory . as may appear to any one that compares them together : where there are the same expressions word for word : by which we may see the strictest allegiance to the pope is understood by it , without the least reservation of any other princes rights . and considering the doctrine and design of the first imposers of it , it cannot be questioned , but their intention was hereby to exempt the takers of it from all allegiance to any other than the pope . but lest this design should be too easily suspected , at first it went only along with the pall to archbishops , then it came to bishops , shops , and at last , as the gloss upon the canon law tells us , to all that receive any dignity , consecration , or confirmation from the pope ; and now the oath in the pontifical is much larger than it was , and by it the takers are bound to observe and defend the papal reservations , provisions and mandates , and to persecute to the utmost of their power , all hereticks , schismaticks and rebels to the pope . much kindness then is to be expected from all who are sworn to persecution , and much allegiance to princes from those who own the pope to be their soveraign in as express terms as any subjects can do their princes : and so cassander takes notice , that several passages in this oath relate to meer civil obedience , which we owe to princes and not to the pope : and for what relates to the papacy , if by it be understood the papal tyranny , as no doubt it is , be utterly condemns it as an unlawful oath ; and i extreamly wonder at those who make so many scruples about oaths of allegiance to princes , that they make none at all about this , which as far as i can see , leaves no room for allegiance to them , any more than a person who hath already sworn allegiance to one prince , hath liberty to swear the same thing to another ; which it is impossible he should keep to both . the first contriver of this oath to the pope , was no other than gregory . who could not be thought to understand less than the strictest allegiance by it , since he required fealty from temporal princes , and forbad all clergy-men paying homage to them . in the council held by him at rome , a. d. . the archbishop of aquileia took an oath in the same form with that published by raynaldus out of the vatican ms. and therein he is sworn , to defend the roman papacy and the royalties of s. peter ; which makes me wonder how the form extant in the canon law should have it regulas sanctorum patrum instead of regalia sancti petri , for we are not to imagin that gregory . had any such thought to bring down the royalties of s. peter to the ancient canons ; and the oath which was taken had the regalia sancti petri alwayes in it from gregory . time : unless they hoped to deceive the simple by this means , for we find that even cassander himself thought there had been no other form besides that in the canon law , till the bishop of munster sent him the form he was to take ; wherein were the regalia sancti petri , as they are now in the pontifical . but if the strictest tye of allegiance to the pope as their soveraign were not intended by this oath , why could not the popes be contented with the former oath of canonical obedience , which from the time of boniface was required by the pope of all metropolitans together with the pall , although many refused to submit their necks to that yoke . before a. d. . petrus de marca observes , nosuch thing as an oath of canonical obedience from bishops to the metropolitan was used in the church ; and therefore leo . reproves anastasius of thessalonica for requiring it from atticus a bishop under him ; but afterwards by degrees it came into use , as appears by the words of the bishops of aquileia in baronius to the emperour mauricius , and the profession made by adelbertus to hinomarus his metropolitan . whereas the metropolitans themselves made only a bare profession of their faith , and a promise to their suffragan bishops to observe the canons of the church . but when gregory sent boniface , as his missionary into germany , he made him take an oath over the reliques of s. peter in the vatican , to be true and faithful to the interests of the roman see , but still it was within the compass of the catholick faith and the ancient canons : and this 〈◊〉 being a very faithful servant to the 〈◊〉 see , makes it his business to perswade the bishops of germany and france , to profess subjection to the bishop of rome ; and all the metropolitans to receive palls from thence , and to give canonical obedience to the popes decrees : these things went very hardly down with the bishops ; for two years after a. d. . boniface complains to pope zachary , that he was afraid they would not keep their words ; but he assures the pope it was none of his fault ; but at last they were wheedled into it under this pretence that it was only a mark of honour to receive the pall , and not a badge of subjection ; and hincmarus told nicolaus . that he could receive no more power by it , than the canons had given to metropolitans already ; but when they were brought to receive the pall the promise of subjection went down with it : the form of which is extant among the ancient formulae published by sirmondus , wherein they promise to the pope only debitam subjectionem & obedientiam , which is properly canonical obedience . now if gregory . had understood no more than that , why did he alter the oath , and put in so many expressions which properly imply the same fealty which vassals owe to their lords , or subjects to their princes ? i know not , how it came to pass that so jealous a prince of his own rights as henry . came to suffer the new archbishop to take this oath to the pope ; but this is certain that it was extreamly disgusted in other countries . for baronius tells us that the kings and nobility of sicily and poland were very much offended at it , as a thing there was no ground for in the ancient councils ; as though saith paschal . in answer to them , the councils could set bounds to the popes authority : which was bravely said and like a prince that endeavoured to make the greatest bishops his vassals ; but i cannot imagine what satisfaction this could give to secular princes , who might easily discern how much their own power was lessened by these manifest encroachments upon it , by the exacting oaths of allegiance from some of the most considerable of their subjects , to a forraign power . § . . after the death of henry . the papal power got more ground in the troublesome reign of king stephen , than ever it had done before ; for his title being very bad , he saw it was the more necessary for him to strengthen it by the popes authority . to which end , after his consecration by william archbishop of canterbury , who together with stephen had before sworn allegiance to maud the empress , he sends to the pope for a confirmation of his title , which the pope very amply sends him ; and the bull is extant among our historians ; wherein among other things he takes notice , that on the day of his consecration ( as the pope calls it ) he promised obedience and reverence to s. peter ; which no doubt went very far in his title : and the bishop of winchester his brother told him ( as malmsbury relates who lived in that time ) that he came to the crown not by any military power but by the churches favour , and therefore he ought to be kind to it ; and so he was it seems at first , for he yielded to their own terms , as gul. newburgensis saith , and the bishops did swear only a conditional allegiance to him , viz. as long as he preserved the liberty of the church . to give them therefore all the satisfaction they desired , he made that oath extant in malmsbury , wherein he put all ecclesia●tical persons and things under their own jurisdiction ; and when afterwards he violated this liberty , his own brother being then the popes legat , presumed to summon him to appear before his ecclesiastical high court of iustice , and to give him an account of what he had done in daring to imprison the bishops of salisbury and lincoln : for , said he , if the bishops do any thing amiss , the king hath nothing to do to judge them , but they must be left to the canons ; and withall he adds , that the king was bound to give them an account of what he had done : but the king sent them word that he appealed to rome ; and so the business fell . thus we see how much he advanced the popes power by yielding to a legatine power here , to hear causes , and suffering himself to be called to an account before it ; by which example , appeals grew very frequent and troublesome in his time , as our historians sadly complain ; and the bishops and monks went commonly over to rome upon appeals ; nay theobald archbishop of canterbury went to the pope , then in frarce , expresly against the kings command , and the pope suspended the rest that did not come ; and william archbishop of york was deposed by the pope , meerly because nominated by the king , and another put into his room without the kings consent , or approbation : the right of investitures was condemned in a council held at westminster , and the infringers of ecclesiastical liberty punished with excommunication , not to be taken off but by the pope himself ; and after the reconciliation between stephen and henry . the effect of it , saith radulphus de diceto , was , that the churches dominion was exalted by it . § . . this was the state of things here , when henry the second came to the possession of the crown ; all the customs of his ancestors which they accounted rights of the crown were lost during the usurpation of stephen , and strange insolencies and villanies were committed under the pretence of ecclesiastical liberty , or the unaccountabless of ecclesiastical persons for their actions to civil justice : which made the judges complain to the king of the thefts , rapines , and murders frequently committed by clergy-men , over whom they had then no jurisdiction ; and as gulielmus newburgensis saith , the bishops were more concerned to defend their priviledges , than to punish offendors , and thought they did god and the church service in protecting them from the hands of iustice. by which means things were come to that height between the civil & ecclesiastical power , that one or the other must yeild ; the ecclesiastical power being in the hands of thomas becket , a man after the popes own heart , and in whom the very soul of gregory the seventh seemed to have come into the world again ; and the civil power in the management of henry the second , a prince of a high spirit and great courage , and that could not easily bear the least diminution of his power . and where there was so much matter prepared , and such heat on both sides , it was no great difficulty to fore-tell a storm , when the clouds that hovered in the air should clap together , or fall upon each other . this was foreseen by the more discerning men of that time when they found the king bent upon making him archbishop after the death of theobald : for however becket himself boasted of the freedom of his election and the consent of the clergie and kingdom in it , yet in the epistle sent to him by the bishops and clergie of the whole province , they plainly tell him , the kings mother disswaded him from it , the whole kingdom was against it , and the clergie sighed and groaned as much as they durst ; but the king would have it so . for the king being then in normandy sent over his great minister richard de lucy on purpose to let the suffragan bishops and the monks of canterbury understand his pleasure , that he would have becket chosen archbishop . which the bishop of london in his excellent epistle to becket ( which gives a more true account of the intrigues of the whole quarrel than any thing yet extant , and which baronius could not but see in the codex vaticanus , although he takes no notice at all of it ) tells him , was a greater invasion of the churches liberties , than any of those things he made such ado about . you , saith he , now tell us that we ought to obey god rather than men : would to god we had done so then ; but because we had not the courage to do it then , therefore we now suffer shame and confusion for it , and the tears run down our cheeks for the calamities that are come upon us . by which we may judge of the truth of the quadripartite history , written by thomas his own disciples , as baronius confesseth , for therein herebertus and iob. sarisburiensis tell of thomas his protesting against his being archbishop to the king , and his being hardly perswaded to it by the popes legat ; whereas the bishop of london proves to becket himself , that during theobalds life he had his eye upon it , and made all the interest he could to obtain it upon his death , that he gave several thousand marks to the king to be chancellour , hoping by that means to come the easier into the see of canterbury , that being in normandy at theobalds death , he posted over , and the kings favourite brought his command for his election . and it is likewise confessed by fitz stephen in the ms. history of beckets life , that the whole clergie knew it was the kings pleasure he should be made archbishop ; and that gilbert , then only bishop of hereford , ( afterwards of london ) disswaded all that he could from his election ; and after said , that the king had done a strange thing , viz. he had made a souldier archbishop of canterbury ; for but a little before he had been in arms with the king at tholouse . and this opposition of his , he calls not only god to witness , was not out of any ambitious desire to have been in his room , ( as thomas and the monks charge him ) but becket himself , for no man could attempt any such thing , but he must know it , his favour being so great with the king then . but it seems , the wiser men among the bishops , thought that by reason of his insolent , rash , and inflexible temper , ( which even his friends complained of in him ) he would bring all things into confusion . when he was summoned at northampton to appear before the king , he would needs carry the cross , with his own hands into the court ; upon which the bishop of london told him , he behaved himself as if he had a mind to disturb the whole kingdom ; you carry the cross , saith he , and what if the king should take his sword ? but , said he to one that stood by , he alwayes was a fool , and ever will be one . these things i only mention , to let men see what apprehensions the more prudent men of that time had of the likelihood of great disturbances coming to the church by his ill management , although by the rashness of others added to his , he hath had the fortune to be accounted a saint and a martyr . § . . but my business is not , to write a particular account of all the passages between the king and him , after the difference between them ; which hath been so largely done by baronius , and our own historians ; but i shall shew , that the controversie between them was about gregory the sevenths principles , and if he dyed a martyr for any thing , it was in defence of these . which i shall the rather do , since i find his life very lately published in french with a high character of him , and dedicated to the king of france ; but especially because i find , that those among us of that religion , who disown gregory the sevenths principles , are willing to believe him a martyr upon other grounds , viz. that his quarrel with the king was upon the account of the antient municipal laws of england which had a respect to the immunities of clergie-men . i shall therefore prove , . that the matters in dispute between the king and becket , were the very same that gregory the seventh and his successors contended about , with christian princes . . that the pleas made use of by becket and his party were no other , than those , which gregory the seventh and his successors used , so that they had no relation at all to the municipal laws , but to the controversie then on foot between the civil and ecclesiastical power . in both which i hope to make some passages clearer than they have yet been , having had the advantage of perusing several mss. relating to this matter , and especially that volume of epistles , which baronius accounts an unvaluable treasure ; and as far as i can perceive , the cotton ms. is more compleat than the vatican , which baronius made use of . . for the matters in dispute between them . the whole controversie might be reduced to two heads . . whether ecclesiastical persons were unaccountable to the civil power for any misdemeanours committed by them ? . whether the pope had the soveraign power over princes and all under them , so that he might contradict the kings laws and customs , and command his subjects against his consent to come to him ? and whether the kings subjects in such cases were not bound to obey the pope , let the king command what he please ? these , in truth , were the points in debate , and the most weighty particulars in the customs of clarendon were but as so many branches of these . in that copy of them which is extant in the cotton ms. and was drawn up by the kings own order , the occasion of them is set down , to have been the differences which had happened between the clergie and the kings iustices and the barons of the kingdom about the customs and dignities of the crown ; the most considerable of those which the pope condemned were concerning . the tryal of titles of advowsons and presentations in the kings courts . . the tryal of clergie-men before the kings iudges ; and the churches not defending them after conviction or confession . . that neither archbishops , bishops or others should go out of the kingdom , without the kings consent , and giving security to the king , that in going , staying , or returning , they will do nothing to the prejudice either of the king or kingdom . . the profits of ecclesiastical courts upon absolutions , for they demanded not barely personal security of all excommunicated persons , to stand to the churches judgements , but vadium ad remanens as the law term was then , which implyes real security , or so much money laid down which was to come to the court , if they did not perform the conditions expressed . for it was one of the things the kings ambassadour complained of to his mother the empress , that the matters in controversie were not things of advantage to mens souls , but to their own purses ; and that the faults of offenders were not punished in the ecclesiastical courts by the injoyning of penance , but by the giving of money . and the empress her self in her discourse with nicholas de monte the archbishops friend , insisted on these pecuniary mulcts for sins as one of the great occasions of the troubles ; which made people suspect this pretence of ecclesiastical liberty to be only a cloak for their own profits . but however the good pope , whether he understood this vadium ad remanens or no , at all adventures condemned it . for what should the court of rome do without exchanging money for sins ? . that no person who held of the king in capite , or belonged to him should be excommunicated , or have his land interdicted without making the king acquainted with it , or his iustice in his absence . . that in matters of appeal , they were to proceed from the arch-deacon to the bishop , from the bishop to the arch-bishop , and from thence to the king , and not to proceed further without his express leave . these were the main things in dispute ; and what do they all amount to , but the very same rights of the crown which the kings predecessors did insist upon ? and what could be the sense of becket in opposing them , but that clergie-men were not accountable for their faults to the civil power , and in case of the popes command , whether upon appeal or otherwise , bishops and others were to go to his court in spight of the king ? as anselm and theobald had done before . it is agreed by baronius himself , that the quarrel brake out , upon the arch-bishops denying to deliver up the clergie-man that was accused and convicted of murder after ecclesiastical censure to the secular power ; which the king earnestly desired , and becket as peremptorily denyed . and upon what principle could this be done , but the highest pretence of ecclesiastical liberty , that ever gregory the seventh or any other asserted ? and it is plain by this , that the king did not deny the ecclesiastical jurisdiction , nor hindered the proper censures of the church upon offenders ; but the question was meerly this , whether ecclesiastical persons having committed crimes against the publick peace , were only to be punished with ecclesiastical censures , and never to be delivered over to civil iustice ? which was the main hinge of the cause , and which becket stood to , to the last . and that this was the true state of the controversie appears by the representation made of it to alexander the third by the whole clergie of the province of canterbury : who confess that the peace of the kingdom was very much disturbed by the insolence and crimes of some of the clergie ( for upon the account of this exemption , any villains were safe , if they could but get into any kind of orders ; ) the king for the safety of his people , pressed the bishops after their censures to give such guilty persons up to the laws , because bare degrading was by no means sufficient punishment for wilful murder , which was all the church censures reached to . this all the bishops at first opposed as derogatory to the churches liberty , but afterwards ( becket excepted ) the rest saw a necessity of yielding at present , for , as they confess themselves , this liberty was extended even to a lector or acolythus ; and the empress matildis said , that the bishops gave orders very loosely without titles ; by which we may easily imagine what a miserable state the whole kingdom might be in if these things were suffered . so that we see the plea insisted upon at the beginning of the quarrell was , that no persons in any ecclesiastical orders , upon any crime whatsoever , were to be delivered over to be punished by the secular power . and what could such a pretence arise from , but only from gregory the sevenths principles of government ? viz. that the civil power had nothing at all to do with ecclesiastical persons , and that all the subjection and obedience they owed was only to the pope as their soveraign ; and that this was the liberty which christ purchased for his church with his own blood , as paschal the second answered the emperours ambassadors , and as becket very frequently expresses it in his epistles . a blessed liberty ! and worthy the purchase of the blood of christ ; viz. a liberty to sin without fear of punishment , or at least any punishment which such persons would be afraid of ; for the utmost becket could be perswaded to in the case of the canon of bedford convicted of murder , was only to confine him to a monastery for a time : which was a very easie expiation of murder ; so that the benefit of clergie was a mighty thing in those dayes . but it is impossible to give any tolerable account of beckets actions , unless we suppose this to have been his ground and principle , that god had exempted by his law all clergy-men , by vertue of being such , from any subjection to civil power : for if they owe any subjection , they are accountable for their breaches of the laws to that power to which they are subject ; if they are not accountable for any crimes they must be supposed to be wholly independent on the civil government . § . . neither is there any ground for such an exemption by the ancient municipal laws of england , either in the saxon , or norman times : and i cannot but wonder to see the laws of princes concerning ecclesiastical persons , brought to prove their total exemption from the power of princes , which was that ecclesiastical liberty which becket did plead for . for according to his principles , neither alured , nor edward , nor canutus , nor any other prince had any thing to do to appoint the punishments of ecclesiastical persons ; but their judgement was to be wholly left to their own superiours . and supposing there had been such laws among the saxons , becket would not have valued them at all , but rather have thought them a prejudice to his cause , and an encouragement to hen. . to have repealed those and made others in their place . for why should not the power of this king be as good as the saxons to make and alter ecclesiastical laws as they saw convenient ? but becket understood his business better than so . he would not upon any terms be brought to the tryal , whether they were ancient customes or no which the king contended for ? the king offered it very frequently , and by any fair ways of tryal , and declared he would renounce them if they did not appear to be so , he appealed often to the judgement of the church of england about it , and would stand and fall by it ; and none of these things would be accepted of : by which it is evident that either there were no laws could justifie becket , or he thought the producing them would be hurtful to his cause ; for not one of all the customs he excepted against , was in his opinion so bad , as for princes to take upon themselves to determine ecclesiastical causes , and to appoint the punishments of ecclesiastical persons . for then he knew the king need not to stand upon the proof of his other customes , this one right of the crown would put an end to the whole dispute . for if henry . had the same power that edgar had , when he said , that the tryal of the manners of ecclesiastical persons belonged to him , and therefore gave authority to dunstan and the rest to expell criminal clergy-men out of churches and monasteries , why might not he punisht ecclesiastical persons ? and then to what purpose had becket contended with the king , if he had allowed him as much power as the saxon kings did make use of ? and what if the saxon laws did appoint the bishops to examin clergy-men , and pass sentence upon them in criminal causes ? was not the punishment already established by the kings laws , and the bishop only the minister of the kings iustice upon ecclesiastical delinquents ? and even in the laws of edward the confessour , in case of default in ecclesiastical courts , a liberty is allowed of going to other courts ; and in the laws of the elder edward , any one in orders is appointed to make compensation according to the nature of his crime , and without sureties he was to go into prison ; but in case of a capital offence , he was to be taken , that he might undergo penance from the bishop for his fault . where , by capital offence we are not to understand such as were punished with death , but the poenitential canons of egbert tell us by capital crimes were understood pride , envy , fornication , adultery , perjury , &c. but the laws of canutus appoint degradation for murder by a clergy-man ; and compensation and banishment withal , which were civil punishments after degradation , the very thing which becket denyed , and in case this compensation were not undertaken within thirteen days , then the person was to be out-law'd , which to be sure , was a civil punishment . by the laws of king alured , if a priest killed a man he was to lose his priviledges , and the bishop was to expel him out of the temple being already degraded , unless due compensation were made ; i. e. if he did not undergo the civil punishment : for then the greatest crimes , ( excepting murder of a prince or lord by his subject or vassal , or killing any in a sacred place , or treason ) might be expiated by pecuniary mulcts , and ecclesiastical penance , according to the poenitential canons . for it appears by the old poenitential canons of theodore and egbert , that murder had so many years penance appointed for its expiation , which had been a vain thing , if it had been punished with death ; now in this case it was but reasonable that the guilty person should be delivered to the bishop to receive his penance ; whether he were a clergy-man or lay-man ; and the laws of princes did inforce them to submit to ecclesiastical penance . so king alured commands in case of perjury , that the person be taken into the kings custody for forty dayes , that he might undergo the penance which the bishop shall impose upon him ; and if he escaped he was not only to be anathematized , but put out of all protection of the law : and by the laws of king edmund any person guilty of murder was not to come into the kings presence till he had undergone the penance enjoyned him by the bishop : and from hence i suppose it was , that in the saxon times , the bishop and the sheriff sate together in the same court , as appears by the laws of edgar and canutus , not barely to instruct the people in the laws of god and man ; but as the sheriff was to appoint the civil penalty , so the bishop was to enjoyn penance according to the nature of the fault : and one of these did not exclude the other , but , he that did pay such a pecuniary mulct to the sheriff , did undergo so many years penance besides . therefore the laws which mention persons being delivered to the bishop for penance , do by no means imply that they were excused from any civil penalty either before or after it : as might be proved from the laws of the empire , and the capitulars , if it were needful . so that in the saxon times , if a clergy-man were guilty of wilful murder , the poenitential canons imposed ten years penance upon him , of which seven were to be spent in banishment ; but besides this , the legal compensation was to be made , as is evident by the laws of edward and canutus : from whence it appears , how very slender the pretence is of beckets contending for the ancient saxon laws , when he denyed the giving up a clergy-man convicted of murder to the secular power after ecclesiastical censures . but where ●s there the least foundation in the saxon times , for such open defiance of the civil power , as to the punishment of offenders of what degree or order soever ? and that was the case of becket , the king only desired that iustice might be executed indifferently on all persons , and the ancient customs revived ; but he would not yield as to either of these , not upon the pretence of former laws , but the repugnancy he supposed to be in them to that ecclesiastical liberty , which he said , christ had purchased with his blood. § . . after the norman conquest , the ecclesiastical and civil courts were first separated , as appears by the grant of william the conquerour to remigius bishop of lincoln , and many others to the same purpose ; but i find no particular exemption of a criminal clergy-man from the civil power established . the main plea is from the confirmation of the saxon laws , but to how little purpose that is , is already shewed . by the laws of henry . if a bishop committed murder , he was to be deposed , and undergo twelve years penance , seven of which were to be with bread and water : if a priest or monk , he was to lose his order and to undergo ten years penance ; if a deacon , to lose his orders , and to have seven years penance ; if a clerk only ( i. e. in inferiour orders ) six years penance ; and then it follows , if a lay-man , five years penance ; which was very prudently left out with an &c. by p. w. because it marrs all the rest ; for if according to these laws , clergy-men had an exemption from civil iustice , so had the laity too ; and upon better terms , for their penance is but half that of a priest or a monk , and not half of a bishop . but after henry . the penance was turned into a pecuniary mulct , as king henry . complained , and men committed the greatest crimes at a certain rate , by which means abundance of villanies , and murders , and rapines were daily committed ; and in henry . time , the kings iustices complained of it to the king , who commands them to punish all offenders severely ; and if any clergy-men were convicted , they were to be delivered to the bishop to be degraded by him in the presence of the kings iustice , and so to be returned to the court to be punished ; but in the case of the canon of bedford , becket utterly denies the delivering him up to the kings iustice after degrading . fitz stephen gives more instances , which exasperated the king , one whereof was , of a person who had destoured the daughter and murdered the father , whom henry . would have punished according to la● , but the archbishop would not suffer him to be delivered up to the kings iustice. ( yet methinks it might bear a dispute how far a person degraded is capable of ecclesiastical immunities ; but becket , it seems , extended them to all that were or had been such ; or it may be , the indelible character preserved still some title to a legal impunity in sinning . ) the king apprehending the very bad consequences of such an exemption of all sorts of clergy-men from civil punishments , and not knowing what the late encroachments upon the civil power by the ecclesiastical might come to ( for so fitz stephen saith , some about the king told him , if these things were suffered , and the archbishop let alone , his royal authority would come to nothing , and the clergy would make whom they pleased king , as they had shewed their power and will already , in the case of king stephen ) therefore the king resolves to resume all the rights of his ancestors , and to have a solemn recognition made of them in parliament . but first he treats with all the bishops at westminster to know whether they would observe the ancient customs ? they gave him a shuffling answer , that they would do it salvo ordine suo & jure ecclesiae : which the king took for a denyal , and was extremely inraged at it . the bishop of london confesses , that they all agreed in the denyal , and gave this as the reason , because their yielding to those customs was repugnant to the liberty of the church , and the fidelity they owed to the pope : which was a plain confession of the true state of the controversie , whether the king or the pope were to be obeyed in those matters ? baronius tells us , that becket sent over an express to the pope ( being th●n at sens ) to know what they were to do in the straits they were in , the pope encourages them to stand up for ecclesiastical liberty to the utmost ; notwithstanding this , the king resolves to have a recognition of these customs at clarendon , where the authors of the quadripaarite history say the whole kingdom was present , and they confess , that becket with the rest of the bishops did promise the king to observe them bona fide : which they parallel with s. peters fall in denying christ : but the bishop of london in his epistle to becket gives a more particular account of it , which is worth our not●ce : three dayes , he sayes , all the bishops withstood the kings desire , and no threats could move them , but they resolved rather than to yield to dye upon the spot for christ and his church , ( as he speaks ) at last becket withdrew from them , and coming in again used these words to them ; it is the kings pleasure i should forswear my self at present , and i will do it and repent afterwards ; ( were not these brave heroick words for a saint and a martyr ? ) at the hearing of them , he saith , they were all astonished , and their hearts failed them ; and so they all promised in verbo veritatis to observe the ancient customs . thus , saith he , was the controversie then ended between the kingdom and priesthood , and so israel descended into egypt . but notwithstanding this solemn promise , in a few dayes becket breaks his word , and attempts to go beyond sea without the kings leave : at which the king was extreamly troubled , and as the bishop of london saith , had rather he had wounded his body than his reputation by such an escape into forreign parts , where he was sure to be represented as a tyrant and persecutor of the church . becket was driven back by a tempest , the king takes no notice of it , uses him kindly , and bids him take care of his church . not long after , a controversie happened about some lands which becket challenged as belonging to his church , the king sends to him to do justice to the person concerned in it : notwithstanding complaints are brought to the king for want of it , the king sends a summons to him to appear before him , that he might have the hearing of the cause . becket refuses to obey the summons , and sends the king word he would not obey him in this matter : at which saucy answer , the king was justly provoked , as a great disparagement to his royal authority . upon this he calls the parliament at northhampton , where the people met as one man ; the king represents his case , with becoming modesty and eloquence : however , he consented that his fault should be expiated by a pecuniary mulct : after this the king exhibited a complaint against him for a great summ of money received by him , during his chancellorship which he had never given account for : ( it was marks , as the bishop of london told the cardinals who were sent by the pope afterwards to end the controversie ) becket pleaded that he was discharged by his promotion , ( as though , as the bishop of london said , promotion were like baptism that wiped away all scores . ) but this being a meer civil cause , as the bishop tells becket , yet he denyed to give answer to the king and appealed to the pope , as the judge of all men living , saith sarisburiensis ; and soon after in a disguise he slips over the sea , and hastens to the pope ; who received him with great kindness , and then he resigns his arch-bishoprick into the popes hands , as our historians generally agree , because he received investiture from the king , and takes it again from the pope . this is the just and true account of the state of the controversie , as it is delivered by one of the same time , that knew all the intrigues , and which he writes to becket himself , who never answered it that i can find , nor any of his party ; and by one , who was a person of great reputation with the pope himself , for his learning , piety , and the severity of his life . and is it now possible to suppose that gregory . if he had been in beckets place , could have managed his cause with more contempt of civil government than he did ? when he refused to obey the kings summons , declined his iudicature in a civil cause , and broke his laws against his own solemn promise , and perjured himself for the popes honour . if this be only defending ancient priviledges of the church , i may expect to see some other moderate men of the roman church plead for gregory . as only a stout defender of the ancient canons , and an enemy to the popes temporal power . but men are to be pittyed when they meet with an untoward objection ( such as that from beckets saintship and martyrdom is to prove the doctrine of ecclesiastical liberty and the popes temporal power to be the sense of their church ) if they cannot find that they endeavour to make a way to escape ; and i hope the persons i now deal with have more ingenuity than to think this new pretence any satisfactory plea for beckets cause . and as the bishop of london tells becket , it is not the suffering , but the cause which makes a martyr : to suffer hardship with a good mind is honour to a man ; but to suffer in a bad cause and obstinately is a reproach ; and in this dispute , he saith , the whole weight of it lay upon the kings power , and some customs of his ancestors , and the king would not quit the rights of his crown which were confirmed by antiquity , and the long usage of the kingdom : this is the cause why you draw your sword against the sacred person of the king , in which it is of great consequence to consider that the king doth not pretend to make new laws , but as the whole kingdom bears him witness , such as were practised by his ancestors . and although it appears , that he wished well to the main of beckets cause ; yet he blames him exceedingly for rashness , indiscretion and insolency in the management of it ; and bids him remember , that christ never entred zacchaeus his house till he came down from the sycamore tree ; and that the way of humility did far better become him , and was likely to prevail more with the king , than than which he took . § . . but becket being out of the kings reach , and backed by the king of france , and favoured by the court of rome , made nothing of charging the king with tyranny ; as he and his party do very frequently in the volume of epistles ; and because the empress his mother pleaded for some of the customs as antient rights of the crown , she is said to be of the ra●e of tyrants too . the king finding himself thus beset with a swarm of horne●● 〈…〉 of his own power to 〈…〉 farther attempts upon his crown and royal authority , which was exposed to such publick ignominy in forreign parts : and therefore sends this precept to all the bishops to suspend the profits of all such clergie-men as adhered to him . nosti quam male thomas cantuariensis archiepiscopus operatus ● est adversus me & regnum meum , & quam male recesserit , & ideo mando tibi quod clerici sui qui circa ipsum fuerint post fugam suam , & alii clerici qui detraxerunt honori meo , & honori regni , non percipiant aliquid de redditibus illis quos habuerant in episcopatu tuo nisi per me , nec hab●ant aliquod auxilium nec consilium a te , teste richardo de luci apud marlebergam . after this , the king commands the sheriffs to imprison every one that appealed to the court of rome , and to keep them in hold till his pleasure were known : and he causes all the ports to be watched , to prevent any letters of interdict from the pope ; and if any regular brought them , he was to have his feet cut off ; if in orders , he was to lose his eyes and something else : and if he were a lay-man , he was to be hanged . accordingly the popes nuntio was taken with letters of the popes coming over for england , and imprisoned by the kings order . but the difference still growing higher , and the king being threatned with excommunication , and the kingdom with an interdict ; the king commands an oath to be taken against receiving bulls from the pope , or obeying him , or the archbishop , and the penalty no less than that of treason : which is so remarkable a thing , i shall give it in the words of the ms. a. d. mclxix . rex henricus jurare facit omnem angliam a laico duodenni vel quindecim annorum , contra dom. papam alexandrum & b. thomam archiepiscopum , quod eorum non recipient literas , neque obedient mandatis . et si quis inve●tus foret literas eorum deferens , traderetur potestatibus tanquam coronae regis capitalis inimicus . here we see an oath of supremacy made so long ago by henry the second , and those who out of zeal , or whatsoever motive brought over bulls of the popes , made lyable to the charge of treason : but the archbishop by vertue of his legatine power took upon him to send persons privately into england , and to absolve them from this oath , as is there expressed . the same year , the king being in normandy sent over these articles to be sworn and observed by the nobles and people of england , . if any one be found carrying letters from the pope , or any mandate from the archbishop of canterbury , containing an interdict of religion in england , let him be taken , and without delay let justice pass upon him , as upon a traytor to the king and kingdom . . no clergie-man , or monk , or lay-brother may be suffered to cross the seas , or return into england , unless he have a pass from the kings iustice for his going out , and of the king himself for his return ; if any one be found doing otherwise , let him be taken and imprisoned . . no man may appeal either to the pope or arch-bishop ; and no plea shall be held , of the mandates of the pope or archbishop , nor any of them be received by any person in england ; if any one be taken doing otherwise , let him be imprisoned . . no man ought to carry any mandat either of clergie-man or laick to either of them on the same penalty . . if any bishops , clergie-men , abbots , or laicks will observe the popes interdict , let them be forthwith banished the realm , and all their kindred ; and let them carry no chattels along with them . . that all the goods and chattels of those who favour the pope or archbishop , and all their possessions of whatsoever rank , order , sex , or condition they be , be seized into the kings hand and confiscated . . that all clergie-men having revenews in england , be summoned through every county , that they return to their places within three months , or their revenues to be seized into the kings hands . . that peter-pence be no longer paid to the pope ; but let them be gathered and kept in the kings treasury , and laid out according to his command . . that the bishops of london and norwich be in the kings mercy , and be summoned by sheriffs and bailiffs to appear before the kings iustices to answer for their breach of the statutes of clarendon in interdicting the land , and excommunicating the person of earl hugh , by vertue of the popes mandat , and publishing this excommunication without licence from the kings iustices . i hope these particulars will give full satisfaction , that the controversie between king henry the second and becket , was not about some antient saxon laws , but the very same principles , which gregory the seventh first openly defended of the popes temporal power over princes , and the total exemption of ecclesiastical persons from civil iudicatures . § . . . this will yet more appear , if we consider that the pleas used by becket and his party , were the very same which were used by gregory the seventh and his successors . the beginning of the quarrel we have seen , was about the total exemption of men in any kind of ecclesiastical orders from civil punishments , which was the known and avowed principle of gregory the seventh and his successors ; and it seems by fitz stephen , that several of the bishops were for yielding them up to the secular power after deprivation ; and said , that both law and reason and scripture were for it : but becket stood to it , that it was against god and the canons ; and by this means the churches liberty would be destroyed , for which in imitation of their high-priest they were bound to lay down their lives : and bravely adds , that it was not greater merit of old for the bishops to found the church of christ with their blood , than in their times to lay down their lives for this blessed liberty of the church : and if an angel from heaven should perswade him to comply with the king in this matter he should be accursed . by which we see what apprehension becket had of the nature of his cause from the beginning of it : for this was before the king insisted on the reviving the antient customs at clarendon . where it seems beckets heart failed him , which the monks and baronius parallel with s. peters denying christ ; but it seems the cock that brought him to repentance , was his cross-bearer : who told him , that the civil authority disturbed all : that wickedness raged against christ himself ; that the synagogue of satan had profaned the lords sanctuary ; that the princes had sat and combined together against the lords christ ; that this tempest had shaken the pillars of the church , and while the shepherd withdrew , the sheep were under the power of the wolf. a very loyal representation of the king , and all that adhered to his rights ! after this , he spoke plainly to him , and told him , he had lost both his conscience and his honour in conspiring with the devils instruments in swearing to those cursed customs , which tended to the overthrow of the churches liberty . at which he sighed deeply , and immediately suspends himself from all offices of his function , till he should be absolved by the pope ; which was soon granted him . the pope writes to the king very sharply , for offering to usurp the things of iesus christ , and to oppress the poor of christ by his laws and customs , and threatens him to be judged in the same manner at the day of judgement ; and tells him of saul , and ozias , and rehoboam , and parallels his sin with theirs , and bids him have a care of their punishments . and was all this zeal of the pope only for the good old saxon laws ? when the bishop of exeter begged the archbishop at northampton , to have regard to his own safety and theirs too , he told him , he did not savour the things of god : he had spoken much more pertinently according to p. w. if he had told him , he did not understand the saxon laws . when the earl of leicester came to him , to tell him , he must come and hear his sentence ; he told him , that as much as his soul was better than his body , so much more was he bound to obey god and him , than an earthly king : and for his part he declared he would not submit to the kings judgement or theirs , in as much as he was their father , and that he was only under god , to be judged by the pope ; and so appealed to him . which being an appeal to the pope in a civil cause about accounts between the king and him , it does plainly shew , that he did not think the king had any authority over him , but that the pope had a temporal power over princes to hear and determine causes between them and their subjects . and in his letter to the pope upon this appeal , he saith , that he was called as a laick to answer before the king , and that he insisted upon this plea , that he was not to be judged there , nor by them ; for what would that have been , but to have betrayed your rights ? and to have submitted spiritual things to temporal ; and if he should have yielded to the king , it would have made him not a king but a tyrant . and whereas the bishops pleaded obedience to the king , he saith , they were bound corporally to the king , but spiritually to himself . what in opposition to the king about his own rights ? which were so plain in this case at northampton , that the bishop of chichester charged him both with perjury and treason , because these things related to the kings temporal honour and dignity ; and therefore the bishops were not bound to obey their archbishop . the pope applauds becket for what he had done , and nulls the sentence against him , which was still taking more upon him the exercise of a temporal power over the king. but fitz stephen , who saith he was present at northampton with becket , saith , that when the bishop of chichester charged him with his oath at clarendon , he replyed , that what was against the faith of the church , and the law of god , could not lawfully be kept ; now these customs were never supposed to be against the faith of the church till gregory the seventh had very subtilly found out the henrician heresie , i. e. the heresie of princes defending their own rights against the papal usurpations : and he particularly insisted on this , that the pope had condemned those customs , and he adds , that we ought to receive what the roman church receives ( for he knew no difference between the c●urt and church of rome ) and to reject what that rejects : and concludes all with this , that his oath at clarendon was an unlawful oath , and could not bind him . but what pretence were there for this , if he had only contended for the antient municipal laws ? what unlawfulness could there be in swearing to observe the kings laws , although different from former laws ? so that the only way to excuse him from manifest perjury , is to suppose , that he looked on the customs of clarendon as repugnant to the popes decrees , and therefore not to be kept by him : and the pope tells him , that god had reserved him to this time of tryal for the confirmation of catholick and christian truth ; in which it must be implyed , that which becket defended against the king , was a part of the catholick faith , in the popes judgement . in his epistle to robert earl of leicester he pleads for the liberty of the church , which christ hath purchased with his blood ; who then , saith he , dares bring her into slavery ? who art thou that judgest another mans servant , to his own master he ought to stand or fall ? and all that he adviseth to for making up the breach , is their repentance and satisfaction for the injuries done to christ and his church ▪ and whereas the bishop of london had told him , that the king was willing to submit to the judgement of his kingdom about his antient rights ; becket replyes , who is there in earth or heaven that dares judge of what god hath determined ? humane things may be judged , but divine must be left as they are . in his epistle to all the clergie of england , he saith , that at northampton christ was judged again in his person before the tribunal of pilat ( for him he understands by the name of president ) . in his epistle to the king , he pleads , that the liberty of the church , ( which he contended for ) was purchased by christs own blood ; and adds farther , to the very hearts desire of gregory the seventh , that it was certain that kings did receive their power from the church , and not the church from them , but only from christ : from whence he infers , that the king could not draw clergie-men to secular tribunals , or establish the customs in dispute between them . i do not say as hoveden doth , that these words were spoken in a conference at chinun , for they are a part of the epistle sent to the king , not long after his banishment ; and written in justification of his opposition to the rights which the king challenged . therefore i desire to know what the●e words can signifie to his purpose , unless they do imply such a derivation of civil power from the church , that the church may take cognizance of male-administration , or of the civil authorities taking to it self any of the priviledges belonging to the church ? for if all this related only to the ceremonies of coronation , it were to no more purpose than for an archbishop of canterbury to plead now , that the kings power is derived from the church , because the ceremony of inauguration is performed by him . who would not smile at such a consequence ? but we know that the popes temporal power over princes was never more asserted than in that age , that alexander the third at that time challenged and exercised it over the emperour and other princes , and that no man was more stiff in the popes cause , nor more eager for the exercise of his power over our king than becket was , and his actions discovered this to be his opinion , why then should men study to find evasions for these words which neither agree with the course of his actions , nor with the doctrine of that age ? doth not becket himself magnifie the popes power to the greatest height ? in his epistle to the bish●p of london , he saith , that none but an insidel or heretick , or schismatick dares dispute obedience to the popes commands ; that no one under the sun can pluck out of his hands . and in one of his epistles to the pope , he makes very profane addresses to him , applying what the scripture saith only of god and christ , to him . exurge domine , & noli tardare super nos : ill●mina faciem tuam super nos , & fac nobiscum secundum misericordiam tuam . salva nos quia perimus : and immediately adds , let not our adversaries triumph over us ; yea , the adversaries of christ and his church ; quia nomen tuum invocavimus super nos . and lest any should think these were addresses to god , although contained in a letter to the pope ; it follows , non nobis domine , non nobis , sed in nomine domini nostri iesu christi fac tibi grande nomen , repara gloriam tuam . for at this time the kings ambassadors promised themselves great things in the court of rome , and boasted of the favour they had , which put becket into such a consternation , that in the very agony of his soul he poured out these prayers to the pope . and we may judge of beckets opinion in this matter , by that of his great friend cardinal gratianus , for when the king saw himself deluded by the pope , he expressed his resentment in some threatning words , upon which the cardinal said , sir do not threaten , we fear no threatnings ; for we are of that court , which hath been wont to command emperours and kings . and because becket suspected the cardinal of pavia a former legat , to be too favourable to the king , he begins his letters to him , with wishing him health , and courage against the insolence of princes : and saith , that the church gained her strength by opposition to princes . we have no reason therefore to question beckets meaning in the former expression , to be according to the sense of greg. . it being not only most agreeable to the natural sense of the words , but to the course of his actions , and nature of his quarrel , and his expressions at other times . in another of his epistles to the king he complains , that in his kingdom , the daughter of sion was held captive , and the spouse of the great king was oppressed , and beseeches him to set her free , and to suffer her to reign together with her spouse : otherwise he saith , the most mighty would come with a strong hand to deliver her : ( as one of his friends writ to him , that the church could not have peace but with a strong hand and stretched out arm . ) again , he tells the king , that his royal power ought not to intermeddle with the churches liberties , for priests ought only to judge priests , and that the secular power had nothing to do to punish them , if they did not offend against faith . it seems then in case of heresie only the secular arm is to be called in for help : and is not this very agreeable to becket's principle that kings receive their power from the church ? for their assistance is only to be u●ed for their own interests , but by no means in case of treason , or murder , or any other crimes ; but if princes have an inherent right or power in themselves , methinks they might be allowed to take care of their own and publick safety against all offenders . it is the office , saith he , of a good and religious prince , to repair old and decayed churches , and to build new ones , ( it seems the king was only to be surveyor general , ) and to h●nour the priests and to defend them with all reverence . but that they had nothing to do with the judgement of them , he endeavours to prove after his fashion ; and he makes use of the very same arguments the popes had done before in his grandfathers time ; and almost in the same words ; about the relations of fathers and children , masters and scholars , and the power of binding and loosing . nay , he doth not let go , qui vos odit me odit ; qui vos tangit , tangit pupillam 〈…〉 : which were gregory 's beloved places , and served him upon all occasions . and then after his exact method , he thunders out the examples of saul , ozias , ahaz and uzza ; and again saith , that secular powers have nothing to do in the affairs of the church ; but that if they be faithful , god would have them be subject to the priests of his church : and yet further , christian kings ought to submit their acts to the governours of the church , and not set them above them : for it is written , none but the church ought to judge of priests ; and no human laws ought to pass sentence upon such ; and that princes ought to submit to the bishops and not to sit as iudges over them . which he thinks he cannot repeat too often ; and after all uses the very same argument to henry . which gregory . had done to william the conquerour , that princes ought to be subject to the priests , because they are to give an account of them to god : and therefore he ought to understand , that princes are to be governed by them ; and not they brought to the wills of princes : for , saith he , some of the popes have excommunicated kings , and some emperours . i do not think that ever the hildebrandine doctrine ( as some call it ) was delivered in plainer terms , and pleaded for by more arguments ( such as they were ) than by becket and his party , as appears by the whole volume of epistles relating to his quarrel , out of which i have selected these passages . it would be endless to reckon up all the places , wherein they declare it was the cause of god and his church which they defended ; that however ancient the customs were , they ought not to be observed , because contrary to gods law ; that they were not only unlawful but heretical pravities , that those who defended them were henricians and not christians ; that they were balaamites , aegyptians , samaritans , nay satanites , and what not ? and that themselves were the poor of christ , and the persecuted ones , and such as waited for the kingdom of god. and if these things will not satisfie men , that the controversie between henry the second and becket was not about ancient municipal laws , but about the gregorian principles of ecclesiastical and civil government , i know not what can ever do it . § . . but it is still pleaded on his behalf , ( or rather on their own who allow him to be a saint and a martyr , and yet deny the gregorian principles ) that those principles were not the immediate motive of his death ; but only his refusal of giving absolution from ecclesiastical censures , ( but upon a certain condition ) to some bishops after the king was reconciled to him . it is no doubt a great piece of subtilty to find out another cause of his death than he thought of himself ; for he declared , that he dyed for god , and iustice , and the ▪ liberty of the church ; i. e. in prosecution of the same cause , which he had undertaken from the beginning . for becket knew well enough there never was a perfect reconciliation between the king and him ; and that only the necessity of his affairs , and the fears of being served as the emperour was by the pope , i. e. deprived of his kingdom by excommunication , ( which becket pressed with the greatest vehemency ) and the jealousie he had of the rest of the bishops , several of whom kept great correspondency now with becket , and the favour of the people to his cause , forced the king to those shews of reconciliation ; for that they were no more on either side , is manifest by this , that the main controversie was not taken notice of about the ancient customs ; each party hoping for better circumstances : afterwards all that the king consented to , was laying aside any personal displeasure against becket , for what was passed , and allowing him freely to return to his church in expectation of a better behaviour towards him for the future . all which appears from beckets own letters to the pope , upon and after this reconciliation ; for , he saith expresly , the customs were not once mentioned between them , and that the apprehensions of the popes interdict and fredericks condition was that which moved him to this reconciliation . the king indeed failed in no point of complement to the archbishop , as he very punctually tells the pope , how he saluted him at first bare-headed and ran into his embraces , how he bare his rebukes patiently , and held his stirrup at his getting upon his horse , ( if he had but trampled on the kings neck too , he had been equal to the pope himself , and it might have raised some jealou●ie between them ) . but for all this reconciliation , becket , supposing himself the conquerour , resolved not to abate one jot of his rigour against those who had sworn to the ancient customs ; and therefore procures power from the pope to excommunicate the bishops that had done it , and to return to their excommunication those already absolved , and to absolve none without taking an oath , to stand to the popes command . this the kings officers upon his return into england told him was against the customs of the realm ; but they promised , they should take an oath to obey the law , salvo honore regni : becket at first said , it was not in his power to rescind the popes sentence ; which he knew to be false ; for the pope had given him power to do it ; and he immediately adds , that he could absolve the bishops of london and salisbury if they took the common oath which was in the cotton m s. se juri parituros , but it is interlined se vestro mandato parituros , as the vatican copy in baronius hath it . but the archbishop of york told the other bishops , that the taking such an oath , without the kings consent , was against the kings honour , and the customs of the realm . and it is observeable , that the same time , he was so zealous for the bishops taking this oath to the pope , he peremptorily refused suffering those of his retinue though required to do it by the kings officers , to take an oath of allegiance to the king , to stand by him against all persons , nec vos excipientes nec alium , saith he to the pope , neither excepting you , nor any other ; as the cotton m s. hath it very plainly , but baronius hath printed it nos , whether agreeably to the vatican m s. i know not , but i am sure not to beckets sense ; for he gives this reason of his refusing it , lest by that example the clergy of the kingdom should be drawn to such an oath ; which would be much to the prejudice of the apostolical see ; for by this means the popes authority would be discarded or very much abated in england . judge now , reader , whether becket did not remain firm to the gregorian principles to the last ? and whether the immediate motive of his death did not arise from them ? for upon the oath required of the bishops , they with the archbishop of york went over to the king in normandy , upon the hearing of which complaint the king spake those hasty words , from whence those four persons took the occasion to go over to canterbury , and there after expostulations about this matter , they did most inhumanely butcher him as he was going to vespers in the church : upon which ioh. sarisburiensis , who was his secretary and present at his murder , saith , that he dyed an assertor of the churches liberty , and for defending the law of god , against the abuses of ancient tyrants . but what need we mention his judgement , when the pope in his bull of canonization , and the roman church in his office do say that he dyed for the cause of christ ? and what can be more plain from hence , than that to this day , all those who acknowledge him to be a saint and a mart●r , cannot with any consistency to themselves reject those principles for which he suffered ; any more than they can reasonably be supposed to reject the republican principles , who cry up the regicides for saints and martyrs ? but this is a subject lately undertaken by another hand , and therefore i forbear any farther prosecution of it . § . . after beckets death the royal power lost ground considerably ; for to avoid the interdict and excommunication threatned the kingdom , the king by his ambassadours , and the bishops by their messengers , did swear in the court of rome , that they would stand to the popes judgement ; for among the terms of the kings reconciliation by the popes legats , this was one of the chief : that he should utterly disclaim the wicked statutes of clarendon , and all the evil customs , which in his dayes were brought into the church : and if there were any evil before , they should be moderated according to the popes command , and by the advice of religious persons . thus after so many years contest were the rights of the crown and the customs of his predecessours given up by this great prince ; so true was that saying of becket , that their church had thriven by opposition to princes . and if petrus blesensis may be believed , this king stooped so low ▪ upon the rebellion of his son , as to acknowledge his kingdom to be feudatary to the pope . the authority of which epistle is made use of not only by baronius , but by bellarmin and others , to prove , that the king of england is feudatary to the pope , or that he holds his crown of him upon paying certain acknowledgments ; which it is hardly possible to conceive a prince that understood and valued his own rights so well as henry the second did , should ever be brought so low to confess , without the least ground for it . for when it was challenged by gregory the seventh , it was utterly denyed by william the conquerour , and never that we find so much as challenged afterwards of any lawful prince , by way of fee before his time , but only in regard of the popes temporal power over all princes . although a late french monk who published lanfranc's epistles , wonders it should be denyed because of the tribute anciently paid to rome , viz. of the peter-pence , which were not so called because paid to s. peters pretended successours , but because payable on s. peters day , as appears by the law of canutus to that purpose ; and were only eleemosynary for the sustenance of poor scholars at rome , as the late publisher of petrus blesensis confesses : who withal adds that henry the second denyed their payment , but was perswaded to it again by petrus blesensis ; and him he acknowledges to have been the writer of the foregoing epistle . and we must consider that he was alwayes a secret friend of becket and his cause in the whole quarrel , and being imployed by the king in his straits to write to the pope to excommunicate his son , he knowing very well the prevalent arguments in the court of rome might strain a complement in the behalf of his master to the pope , for which he had little cause to thank him ; although it may be , petrus blesensis expressed his own mind , whether it were the kings or no. and we have no ground that i can find , to imagin this to have been the kings mind in the least ; for upon his submission a clause was inse●ted , that he was no longer to own the pope , than the pope treated him as a christian and catholick king ; and as the popes predecessours had done ●is . and after the writing of that letter and the reconciliation with his son , radulphus de diceto , dean of s. pauls about that time , hath an authentick epistle of henry the second to the pope , wherein he acknowledges no more than the common observance which was usual with all princes in that age , whereas feudatary princes write after another form. so that i cannot but think it to be a meer complement of petrus blesensis without the kings knowledge , or else a clause inserted since his time , by those who knew where to put in convenient passages for the advantage of the roman see. it is said by some , that henry the second a. d. . did revive the statutes of clarendon which the pope and becket opposed so much , in the parliament called at northampton . it is true that gervase of canterbury doth say , that the king did renew the assise of clarendon , for whose execrable statutes becket suffered ; but he doth not say , that he renewed those statutes ; but others which are particularly enumerated by hoveden , upon the distributing t●e kingdom into six circuits , and appointing the itinerant judges , who were made to swear that they would keep themselves , and make others to observe the following assises , ( as the statutes were then called : ) but they all concerned matters of law and civil iustice , without any mention of the other famous statutes about ecclesiastical matters . whereas at the same time it is said that king henry the second granted to the popes legat , though against the advice of his great and wise men , that clergy-men should not be summon'd before secular tribunals , but only in case of the kings forest , and of lay-fees ; which is directly contrary to the statute of clarendon : but some men love to heap things together , without well considering how they agree with each other ; and so make the king in the same page to null and establish the same statutes . but it is observable , that after all this contest about the exemption of clergy-men , and the kings readiness to yield it , they were made weary of it at last themselves ; for as richard ( beckets successour in the see of canterbury ) saith , in his letter to the three bishops , that were then three of the kings iustices , the killing of a clergy-man was more remisly punished , than the stealing of a sheep : and therefore the archbishop perswades them , to call in the secular arm against ecclesiastical malefactors . and now in his opinion the canons and councils are all for it , and beckets arguments are slighted ; and no regard had to the cause he suffered for , when he found what mischief this impunity brought upon themselves . but for this giving up their liberties , the monks revenge themselves on the memory of this archbishop ; as one that yielded up those blessed priviledges which becket had purchased with his blood . notwithstanding the sufferings the king had undergone by his opposing the ecclesiastical encroachments , we may see what apprehension after all he had of the declension of his own power , and the miserable condition the church was in by those priviledges they had obtained , by that notable discourse which gervase of canterbury relates the king had with the bishops in the time of baldwin archbishop of canterbury ; wherein with tears he tells them , that he was a miserable man , and no king ; or if a king , he ha● only the name and not the power of a king : that the kingdom of england was once a rich and glorious kingdom , but now a very small share of it was left to his government . and then gives a sad account of the strange degeneracy both of the monks and clergy ; and what , saith he , in the day of judgement shall we say to these things ? besides , those of rome see our weakness and domineer over us , they sell their letters to us , they do not seek justice but contentions , they multiply appeals , and draw suits to rome , and when they look only after money , they confound truth and overthrow peace . what shall we say to these things ? how shall we answer them at gods dreadful iudgement ? go and advise together about some effectual course to prevent these enormities . was this spoken like a feudatary of the popes ? and not rather like a wi●e and pious prince , who not only saw the miseries that came upon the kingdom and church by these encroachments of ecclesiastical power , but was yet willing to do his best to redress them , if the great clergy would have concurred with him in it : who were a little moved for the present with the kings tears and pathetical speech , but the impression did soon wear off from their minds ; and things grew worse and worse , by the daily increase of the papal tyranny . and when this great prince was very near his end , some of the monks of canterbury were sent over to him , who had been extreamly ●roublesome to himself and the kingdom , as well as to the archbishop by their continual appeals to the court of rome ; and they told the king , the convent of canterbury saluted him as their lord ; i have been , said the king , and am and will be your lord , ye wicked traytors ; upon which one of the monks very loyally cursed him , and he dyed , saith gervase , within seven dayes . § . . having thus far shewed that the controversie between the ecclesiastical and civil power , was accounted a cause of religion by the managers of the ecclesiastical power , and that so far , that the great defender of it is to this day accounted a saint and a martyr , for suffering in it , i now come to shew that the ancient panal laws were made against that very cause which becket suffered for . after the death of henry the second , beckets cause triumphed much more than it had done before ; for in the time of richard the first , the great affairs of the nation were managed by the popes legats during the kings absence , and after his return scarce any opposition was made to the popes bulls , which came over very frequently ; ( unless it were against one about the canons of lambeth , wherein the king and archbishop were forced to submit ) no hindrance made to appeals ; and even in normandy the ecclesiastical power got the better after long contests , in the latter end of richard the first the pope began to take upon him the disposal of the best ecclesiastical preferments in england , either by translation , or provision , or collation ; which , fitz stephen saith that henry . told those about him , ( after the four courti●rs were gone for england to murder becket ) was the design becket intended to carry on , viz. to take away all right of patronage from the king and all lay-persons , and so bring the gift of all church-preferments to the pope , or others under him . upon the agreement of king iohn with the popes legat he renounced all right of patronage , and gave it to the pope ; but it is no wonder in him , who so meekly resigned his crown to the popes legat , and did swear homage to the pope , declaring that he held the kingdom in fee from him upon the annual payment of a thousand marks . and i desire it may be observed that the oath of fealty extant in matthew paris . and the records of the tower , and the vatican register , which king iohn made to the pope , hath no other expressions in it , than are contained in the oath which all the popish bishops now take at their consecration , only with the variation of necessary circumstances . and although sr. tho. moor once denyed any such thing as king iohns resignation of his crown , yet the matter is now past all dispute by the concurrence of the records of the tower , and the vatican register , and the authentick bull of the pope , and the epistles of innocent the third , published out of ms. by bosquet now a bishop in france ; wherein , the devout pope attributes thus resignation of his crown to no less than the inspiration of the holy ghost : and saith , the kingdom of england was then become a royal priesthood : and in another bull he accepts of the resignation , and declares that whereas before these provinces were subject to the roman church in spirituals , they were now become subject in temporals too : and from hence he requires an oath of fealty from himself , and all his successors , and charges all persons under severe penalties not to dare to infringe this charter . and although the parliament , edw. . did deny the payment of the popes tribute upon the invalidity of king john ' s charter , not being done by the consent of the barons ( as the pope said it was ) yet we are to consider what gregory the seventh said to the princes of spain , that a kingdom once belonging to the see of rome can never be alienated from it , but although the use be discontinued , yet the right still continues : so that although the thing be never so much null and vain in it self , yet it still serves for pretence to usurp the same temporal power over our princes , when opportunity serves them . and it is certain that henry the third did swear homage and fealty to the pope at his coronation , and promised to pay the tribute ; which was performed several times in his reign , till the king and people protested against it in the council of lyons , as a grievance of the kingdom , which was extorted by the roman court unjustly in a time of war , and to which the nobles had never consented , and never would . but whatever opinion the nobles were of , the pope had the bishops sure to him , for upon his message to them they all set their hands to king john ' s charter of resignation ; which highly provoked the king , and made him swear that he would stand for the liberty of the kingdom , and never pay the tribute more while he breathed . in the same council the english complained , that infinite numbers of italians were beneficed among them , that more money went out of england every year into italy than the kings revenues came to , that the popes legats grew more intolerable , and by reservations , and provisions , and one trick or other , the patrons were defrauded of their right , and the clergy impoverished by unreasonable pensions ; and whoever would not presently submit , his soul was immediately put into the devils custody by excommunication . notwithstanding all these complaints , the pope goes on in the same way with them , and resolved to try how much the asses back would bear without kicking : the english ambassadours go away highly incensed from the council , and resolved to defend their own rights : but they yet wanted a prince of spirit enough to head them . before this time the insolence of the roman clergy was grown so intolerable to the nation , that the nobility and commonalty joyned together in a resolution to free themselves from this yoke , and threated the bishops to burn their goods if they went about to defend them ; they sent abroad their letters to several places , with a seal with two swords , between which were written ecce duo gladii hic , in abuse of the roman court ; and it seems they destroyed the goods of several roman clergy-men ; but matt. paris saith , they were all excommunicated by the bishop of london and ten bishops more : although matt. mestminster saith , the bishop of london was cited to rome , for favouring them , and having his purse well emptied was sent home again . it seems the pope was so nettled at the remonstrance of the english nobility at the council of lyons , that he entred into a secret consultation with the king of france either to depose the king of england , or to bring him wholly to his will , so that neither he nor his people should so much as dare to mutter against the oppressions of the roman court : and the pope offered the utmost assistance of his power for it , but the king of france declined the employment . however the pope goes on with his work and grants a bull for raising ten thousand marks out of vacant benefices in the province of canterbury , which so incensed the king , that he made at proclamation , that whosoever brought bulls of provision from rome should be taken and imprisoned ; but this did little good ▪ saith matth. paris , because of the uncertain humour of the king. the same year a parliament was called about the intolerable grievances of the roman court , in which many of the bishops favoured the popes party : but at the parliaments meeting at winchester , the ambassadors were returned from the pope , who gave a lamentable account of their ambassy , viz. that instead of any redress , the pope told them the king of england kicks and playes the frederick ( whom he had deposed from the empire in the council , of lyons ) he hath his council , and i have mine , which i will follow ; and withal they say , they were scorned and despised as a company of schismaticks for daring to complain . upon this the king issues out another proclamation , that no money should be sent out of england to the pope . at which the pope was so enraged , that he sent a severe message to the bishops of england under pain of excommunication and suspension , to see his money punctually paid to his nuntio by such a day in london ; and the king by the perswasion of the bishop of worcester and some others , fairly yields , and gives up the cause to the pope . after this the pope sends for a third part of the profits of all benefices from residents , and half from non-residents , with an italian gentleman called non obstante , that had almost undone the nation : the clergie meet at london about it , and make a grievous remonstrance of their sad condition ; declaring , that the whole kingdom could not satisfie the popes demands ; but it seems , the bishops brought the inferiour clergie to it against the consent of the king and parliament . the next year the parliament made another remonstrance of the grievances of the clergie and people of england , which they sent to the pope and cardinals ; wherein they declare , that it was impossible for them to bear the burdens laid upon them ; that the kings necessities could not be supplyed , nor the kingdom preserved if such payments were made ; that the goods of all the clergie of england would not make up the summ demanded : but all the effect of this was only a promise , that for the future the kings leave should be desired ; which , saith matthew paris , came to as much as nothing . by which we may judge of the miserable condition of this nation under the intolerable usurpations of the court of rome . § . . after so long tryal of the court of rome , by embassies , remonstrances , and all fair wayes , and no success at all by them , at last they resolved upon making severe laws ( the last reason of parliaments ) and to see what effect this would have upon the clergie for the recovering the antient rights of the crown . for , we are to consider , that the controversie still was carryed on under the same pretence of the ecclesiastical and civil power ; and it is a foo●ish thing to judge of the sense of the ruling clergie at that time by the acts of parliament and statutes of provisors and praemunire . for by this time , the pope had them in such firm dependence upon him , and they were fed by such continual hopes from the court of rome , that they were very hardly brought to consent to any restraints of the papal power ; and in the parliament rich. . the archbishops of canterbury and york for them and the whole clergie of their provinces made their solemn protestation in open parliament that they in no wise meant , or would assent to any statute or law made in restraint of the popes authority , but utterly withstood the same ; the which their protestations at their requests were enrolled ; as that learned antiquary sr. robert cotton hath shewed out of the records of the tower. by which we see the whole body of the clergie , were for the most exorbitant power of the pope , and would not consent to any statutes made against it : so that what reformation was made in these matters was parliamentary even in that time , and i do not question , but the friends to the papal interest made the very same objections then against those poenal statutes of provisors and praemunire , that others since have done against the laws made since the reformation . and all that were sincere for the court of rome did as much believe it to be meer usurpation in the parliament , to make any laws in these matters ; for was the king head of the church ? might he not as well administer sa●raments , as make laws in deregation of the popes authority and iurisdiction ? what was this , but to make a parliamentary religion , to own the popes sovereign power no farther than they thought fit ? if any thing were amiss , they ought humbly to represent it to his holiness , and to wait his time for the reforming abuses ; and not upon their own heads , and without so much as the consent of their clergie to make laws about the restraint of that power which christ hath set up in his church . how can this be done without judging what the pope hath done to be amiss ? and who dares say , that his holiness can so much err , as to aim at nothing but his own profits , without any regard to the good of the church ? what! are they not all members , and will they dare take upon them to judge their head ? what! sons rise up against their father , and secular men take upon them to condemn the things which christs vicar upon earth allows ? what! and after all the sufferings and martyrdom of s. thomas of canterbury , that ever we should live to see a parliament of england make laws against that good old cause , for which he dyed ? this is but to increase the number of confessors and martyrs , as all those will be , who suffer by these laws . for do they not plainly suffer for conscience and religion , although the parliament may call it treason ? what an honour it is rather to suffer than to betray the churches liberty for which christ dyed ? or to disobey the head of the church who commands those things which the parliament forbids ? and must we not obey god rather than men ? after this manner we may reasonably suppose the roman clergie and their adherents at that time to have argued : but it is well mr. cressy at least allows these stasutes of provisors and praemunire , and boasts of the loyalty of those ancestors that made them : but i fear he hath not well considered the occasions and circumstances of them , and what opposition the papal clergie made against them , or else i should think he could not afterwards have declaimed so much against the injustice and cruelty of our poenal laws . but even those antient statutes were passed with so much difficulty , and executed with so little care , that they by no means proved a sufficient salve for the sore they were intended for , as will appear by this true account of them . § . . in the time of edward the first , who was a prince both wise and resolute ; the grievances of the kingdom , ( by his connivance at the papal encroachments for a long time , ) grew to that height , that some effectual course was necessary to recover the antient rights of the crown , which had now been so long buried , that they were almost forgotten ; but an occasion happened which for the time throughly awaked him to a consideration of them . bonif. . out of a desire still to advance ecclesiastical liberty , had made a constitution , strictly forbidding any clergie-man paying any taxes whatsoever to princes , without the popes consent ; and both the payers and receivers were to fall under excommunication ipso facto not to be taken off without immediate authority from the court of rome , unless it were at the point of death . not long after this , the king demands a supply in parliament , the clergie unanimously refuse on account of the popes bull , the king bids them advise better , and return a satisfactory answer ; at the time appointed winchelsea then archbishop of canterbury , in the name of the whole clergie declares , that they owed more obedience to the pope than to the king , he being their spiritual , and the king only a temporal soveraign ; but to give satisfaction to both , they desire leave to send to the pope . at which saucy answer the king was so much provoked , that he put the whole clergie out of his protection , and seized upon their lands ; for which an act of parliament was made to that purpose saith thorn. and although many of the clergie submitted and bought their peace at dear rates , yet winchelsea stood it out , ready , saith knighton , to dye for the church of christ : which if he had done , there might have been a s. robert as good a martyr , as s. thomas of canterbury : for our historians say , this constitution of the pope was procured by winchelsea's means ; and he caused it to be pulished in all cathedral churches . after this , the king sends a prohibition to the bishops , against doing any thing to the prejudice of himself or his ministers : and another , against all excommunications of those who should execute this law ; and herein he declares , that the doing such a thing would be a notorious injury , to his crown and dignity a great scandal to the people , the destruction of the church , and it may be the subversion of the whole kingdom ; and therefore he charges them by vertue of their allegiance , that they should forbear doing it . at the same time he issued out writs for apprehending and imprisoning all such persons as should presume to excommunicate any of his subjects on the accont of this bull of pope boniface : and our learned lawyers mention out of their books , a person condemned for treason in this kings time for bringing a bull of excommunication against one of the kings subjects ; but although they do not mention the time , it seems most probable to have been upon this occasion . parsons laughs at sr. edw. cook for saying , this was treason by the antient comm●n law , before any statutes were made ; but it doth sufficiently appear by the foregoing discourse , that this was looked on as one of the antient rights of the crown , that no forreign authority should exercise any jurisdiction here without the kings consent . besides , this king revived another of the antient customs , forbidding all persons of the clergie or la●ty to go out of the kingdom without his leave , and so stopt the freedom of appeals to the pope ; and by the statute of carlisle , edw. ● . all religious houses were forbidden sending any moneyes over to those of their order beyond sea , although required to do it by those superiours whom they thought themselves bound in conscience to obey : and it appears by the statute of provisors edw. . that the first statute of this kind was made in this kings time , at the parliament at carlisle ; notwithstanding that the pope challenged the liberty of provisions as a part of the plenitude of his power . but although this statute were then made , yet it had the fortune of many good laws , not to be executed : and therefore in edward the thirds time the commons earnestly pressed for the revival of it edw. . upon which they sent for the statute of carlisle ; and then , sayes the record , the act of provision was made by the common consent , forbidding the bringing of bulls or such trinkets from the court of rome ; and in the next parliament it was enacted , that whosoever should by process in the court of rome seek to reverse judgement given in the kings courts , that he should be taken and brought to answer , and upon conviction to be banished the realm , or be under perpetual imprisonment , or if not found , to be out-lawed . but notwithstanding these laws , the commons edw. . complain still , that provisions went on in despight of the king : and judgements were reversed by process in the court of rome ; and therefore they pray that judgement may be executed upon delinquents ; and this matter brought into a perpetual statute , as had been often desired : the king grants their desire , and the commons bring in a bill to that purpose , extant in the records : but the statute of provisors did not pass till edw. . which is the common statute in the printed books : yet soon after , we find that the commons pray for the execution of it ; and the kings answer was , that he would have it new read and amended : then edw. . passed that other statute of praemunire , against appeals in civil causes to the court of rome ; which we have seen becket made a considerable part of the churches liberty which christ had purchased , and practised it himself at northampton , appealing from king and his parliament to the pope in a meer civil cause of accompts between the king and him . yet after all these statutes edw. . a re-enforcement of them was thought necessary in another statute made that year against citations to rome , and provisions ; wherein are grievous complaints , that the good antient laws were still impeached , blemished and confounded , the crown of our lord the king abated , and his person very hardly and falsly defamed , the treasure and riches of the kingdom carryed away , the inhabitants and subjects of the realm impoverished and troubled , the benefices of the church wasted and destroyed , divine services , hospitalities , alms deeds , and other works of charity withdrawn and set apart , the great men , commons and subjects of the realm in body and goods damnified : and yet sr. r. c. saith , that in the record are more biting words ▪ a mysterie , he saith , not to be known of all men . in edw. . it was declared in parliament by common consent , that if the pope should attempt any thing , against the king by process , or other matters in deed , that the king with all his subjects should with all their force and power resist the same . yet still so deep rooting had the popes power gotten in this nation , that edw. . the commons beg remedy still against the popes provisions , and complain that the treasure of the realm was carryed away , which they cannot bear ; and edw. . a long bill was brought in against the popes usurpations , as being the cause of all the plagues , injuries , famine and poverty of the realm ; and there they complain , notwithstanding all former laws , that the popes collector kept his court in london as it were one of the kings courts , transporting yearly to the pope twenty thousand marks , and commonly more : and that cardinals and other aliens by reason of their preferments here have sent over yearly twenty thousand marks ; and that the pope to ransom the kings enemies did at his pleasure levy a subsidy of the clergie of england ; and that to advance his gain he did commonly make translations of bishopricks and other dignities within the realm ; and therefore again the commons pray the statutes against provisors may be renewed : which they repeated edw. . but all the answer they cou●d get was , that the pope and promised redress , the which if he do not , the laws therein shall stand : but upon another petition , promise was made , that the statutes should be observed . in r. . the commons are at it again upon the same complaints : and it is declared to be one cause of calling the parliament r. . and an act then passed , wherein as sr. r. c. observes , the print makes no mention of the popes abuses , which the record expresly sets down , and that the pope had broken promise with edward the third , and granted preferments in england to the kings enemies . r. . another statute was made against provisions , wherein the print differs from the record , as the same person desires it may be noted . r. . the commons pray that those that bring in the popes bulls of volumus and imponimus may be reputed for traytors . r. . the statute of provisors was again confirmed , notwithstanding the protestations of the bishops in parliament against any statute made in restraint of the popes authority : and a praemunire added against those that bring any sentence of excommunication against those that execute it . r. . the archbishop of york being chancellor told the parliament one of the causes of calling them , was the restoring to the pope what belonged to him about provisions ; but in the same parliament sr. william brian was sent to the tower , for bringing a bull from rome against some that had robbed him , which bull being read , was judged prejudicial to the king , his council , and in derogation to his laws . r. . the commons grant to the king , that by the advice of his lords and commons , he should have power to moderate the statute of provisions to the honour of god , saving the rights of the crown : so as the same be declared the next parliament , to the end the commons may then agree or no. in this parliament happened an extraordinary thing , for william courtny archbishop of canterbury made his protestation in open parliament , saying , that the pope ought not to excommunicate any bishop , or intermeddle for , or touching any presentation to any ecclesiastical dignity recovered in any of the kings courts ; he further protested , that the pope ought to make no translations to any bishoprick within the realm against the kings will : for that the same was the destruction of the realm and crown of england which hath alwayes been so free , as the same hath had none earthly soveraign , but only subject to god in all things touching regalities , and to none other ; the which his protestation he prayed might be entred . then passed the famous statute of praemunire upon occasion of the popes bulls of excommunication coming into england against certain bishops , who it seems at last , were brought to obey the laws ; and that which the archbishop of canterbury protested was a part of the statute , wherein the commons not only declared their resolution to live and dye with the king in defence of the liberties of the crown against the papal usurpations ; but moreover they pray and in justice require that he would examin all the lords as well spiritual as temporal severally , and all the states of the parliament , how they think of the cases aforesaid , which be so openly against the kings crown , and in derogation of his regality , and how they will stand in the same cases with our lord the king in upholding the rights of the said crown and regality . by which it appears that the commons had a great suspicion of the spiritual lords ; and it seems they had reason , for the temporal lords declared frankly their concurrence with the commons , and that the cases mentioned were clearly in derogation of the crown , as it is well known and hath been a long time known . mr. cressy would make us believe that all the bishops present , and the procurators of the absent unanimously assented ; but the very words of the statute say the contrary ; for there it is added , that the lords spiritual did make their protestation first , that it is not their mind to deny or affirm that the bishop of rome may not excommunicate bishops , nor that he may make translation of prelates after the law of holy church : ( but it seems by the records the archbishop of canterbury alone spoke plain to the sense of the parliament , and entred his protestation different from the rest . ) neither do the● declare their assent to the freedom of the crown of england from all earthly subjection ; and that it is immediately subject to god in all things touching the regalities of the same , and not subject to the pope ; ( which they touch not upon ) but only with several clauses of reservation about processes , excommunications and translations , they declare in such and such cases , they are against the king and his crown : and in these cases they would be with the king in maintaining of his crown , and in all other cases touching his crown and regality , as they be bound by their liegeance ; which are words very ambiguous , and imply a secret reservation of salvo ordine suo , & jure ecclesiae , or with a salvo to the oath they had taken to the pope . but however the act passed , and a praemunire by it lyes against all that procure or bring bulls , or any other things whatsoever which touch the king against him his crown and regality or his realm , by this statute , the parliament h. . declared , that the crown of england was freed from the pope and all other foreign power ; and it was one of the articl●s against rich. . at his deposition , that notwithstanding the statutes , he procured the p●pes excommunication on such as brake the last parliament in derogation of the crown , statutes , and laws of the realm . and yet we find new statutes of provisors made h. . c. , . h. . c. . h. . c. , . h. . c. . in the h. . it was again enacted that all statutes made against provisors from rome should be observed . § . . by which we see that although the parliament shewed a very good will towards the restraint of the popes usurpations , yet it all signified very little , as long as his authority and supremacy were acknowledged here ; for what did laws signifie , when the pope could null them by a bull from rome ? and it was in those days verily believed by those who did acknowledge the popes supremacy , and followed the church-men in their opinions , that an act of parliament had no power at all upon conscience , if it were repugnant to the laws of the church , i. e. as they then thought , to the popes decretals . and we need not wonder at that , after the popes decretals were digested into a body of canon law , and that looked upon by all the hearty friends to the church of rome , as the rule of conscience in what it determined . which we need not at all to wonder at , since petrus de marca himself declares , that the constitutions of princes are in themselves null when they are repugnant to the canons and received decrees of popes ; and that bishops have alwayes abstained from the execution of them as much as they durst ; by which we see that acts of parliament were no certain indications of the judgement of the church or the generality of the people in that time ; but notwithstanding all the statutes , the good trade of provisors went on still , and the court of rome never wanted chapmen for their forbidden wares . for many of our bishops dying in the time of the council of c●nstance ▪ martin . assoon as he was well settled in his place , put in several bishops by way of provision at his own pleasure ; and nulled elections made by chapters ; so that in two years time he put in thirteen bishops in the province of canterbury in spight of all the statutes of provisors ; and made his nephew prosper colonna arch-deacon of canterbury at fourteen years of age ; who afterwards had as many benefices granted him in england as came to five hundred marks . besides , he granted appropriations , dispensations , &c. as he pleased , without regard to the english nation . these things the english ambassadours complained of in the council of constance , and at last the pope came to an agreement with them , which were called the concordates between martin ▪ and the church of england ; in which no manner of regard was had to the statutes of provisors although so often repeated , only some agreements were made between the pope and the english bishops , about unions of churches , the capacity of english bishops for any offices of the roman court , and such like . but other ambassadours who came a little after these , pressed the matter somewhat harder upon the pope , against provisions and aliens and the kings supplies out of the moneys raised for the court of rome ; the pope giving them no favourable answer , they replyed , unless he did presently satisfie their demands , the king would make use of his own right , because it was not necessity but respect that made them seek to him , and pray that they might enter this protestation before the cardinals by the kings command . at this same time the states of france renewed their statutes against the popes usurpations ; and added , that they would not acknowledge him pope till he consented to them ; and the rector of the university of paris was proceeded against as a traytor for appealing from the kings edicts to the pope . notwithstanding all this , the same pope sends his nuncio into england to raise moneys ; who was called ioh. opizanus , but he was cast into prison for his pains , for which the pope expostulated very sharply with the duke of bedford about it , h. . being then dead . archbishop chi●hel● was in that time no friend to the popes continual encroachments , upon which as appears by the records , he was cited to rome , and the commons make it their request to the king , that he would write to the pope on his behalf : but we are told by a considerable lawyer , that the archbishop of canterbury and the rest of the bishops offered the king a large supply , if he would consent that all the laws against provisors might be repealed : but it was rejected by humphry duke of gloucester , who had lately cast the popes bull into the fire . this is certain that card. beaufort , then bishop of winchester , incurred the penalties of the statutes of provisors h. . for which he was questioned in parliament ; but at last , had his pardon granted by the king , with the consent of all the estates : by which we see , that not one of all the papal encroachments was ever cut off by the severity of the poenal laws , as long as the popes supremacy was allowed ; for never any thing was more vigorously attempted , more frequently enacted , more severely threatned than this business of provisors , yet in despight of all the laws it continued still , as long as the pope was allowed to have a power above laws , and that he could null , abrogate , or dispense with them as he pleased . and thus far i have given an impartial account of the ancient poenal laws of england : the like to which have been made in france , spain , italy , flanders and other parts of europe , as might be easily proved if it were necessary ; but i forbear that , § . . and come to compare the ancient poenal laws of our own nation with the modern , as to the reasons and occasions of them , that by them we may judge whether those who allow the ancient laws to be just , can have any ground to charge the present with injustice and cruelty , which can be only on one of these two grounds . . either that the occasions of the present laws were not so great . or , . that the old laws did not relate to the exercise of their religion , as the latter do . i shall consider both of them . . for the occasions of the present poenal laws , mr. cressy confesseth them to have been treasons ; not consequentially only , when an act may be declared to be treason which in it self is not so ; but such treasons as all mankind acknowledge to be such , viz. depriving soveraign princes of their crown and dignity , endeavouring by open rebellions , and secret conspiracies to take away their lives ; if these be not treasons the●e are none such in the world . and that these were the occasions of the present poenal laws , i shall not produce the testimony of the lord burleigh in his book published on occasion of the poenal laws , called , the execution of iustice in england , not for religion but for treason ; imprinted at london , a. d. ▪ but i shall make use of the testimony of persons less lyable to the exception of our adversaries , viz. the secular priests , who printed their important considerations , a. d. . wherein their whole design is to shew , that the poenal laws , considering the many treasons which were the occasions of them , were very just and merciful . for they acknowledge , . that the state of catholicks was free from persecution the first ten years of queen elizabeth ; and that parsons and creswel confessed as much . . that themselves were the true causes of the change that was made towards them ; by pius . moving a rebellion here by ridolphi , exciting the king of spain abroad to joyn his forces , and denouncing a bull of excommunication against the queen , and absolving her subjects from their subjection , on purpose to foment their rebellion for depriving her of her kingdom : which they prove by particular circumstances . . that they could hardly believe these things themselves , till they saw them expressed and owned in the life of pius quintus , printed and allowed . . that notwithstanding these things , and the rebellion breaking forth . the prisoners were only under greater restraint , but none were put to death on that occasion , but only such who were in actual rebellion : wherein they confess the queen did no more , than any prince in christendom would have done . . that upon these occasions a parliament was called . and a law made against the bringing any bulls from rome , agnus dei's , crosses , or pardons ; and against all persons that should procure them to be brought hither ; which law although they think it to have been too rigorous , yet they cannot but confess that the state could not without the imputation of great carelesness of its own safety have omitted the making some laws against those of their religion . and although they were in their opinion too severe , yet they acknowledge , . that the occasions were extraordinary , most outragious , as they expressed it . . that the execution of them was not so tragical , as was represeuted . . they believe that neither this law nor any other would have been executed upon them , had there not been daily new provocations : such as , . sanders his confession in his book de visibili monarchia , that the pope had sent two priests , morton and web before the northern rebellion into the north to excite the lords and gentlemen to take up arms : declaring to them that the pope had excommunicated the queen , and her subjects were released from obedience to her ; and that sanders doth justifie the said rebellion , and imputes the miscarriage of it , to the over-late publishing the said bull ; affirming that if it had been sooner published , the catholicks would undoubtedly so have risen , as that they must have prevailed against the queen , and had certainly executed the said sentence at that time , for her deposition from the crown . . sanders his magnifying the heads of that rebellion , after they had been arraigned , condemned and executed by the ancient laws of our countrey for high treason : which course since that time was followed by parsons and others . . the full discovery of the plot of the pope and king of spain with the rebels at home , for the depriving the queen of her kingdom . . stukely's attempt in ireland , assisted by sanders and others ; which was afterwards encouraged by the pope himself ; when sanders publickly appeared as a ring-leader of the popes forces to perswade the catholicks to joyn with the rebels already in arms. . gregory . renewing the bull of pius . against queen elizabeth . . upon this the iesuits coming into england , who were the chief instruments of all the mischiefs against the queen ; and of the miseries which they or any other catholicks have upon these occasions sustained . . parsons his endeavour to set the queens crown on another head , as appeared by his letter to a certain earl. . in all the plots , none were found to be more forward than the priests ; and the laity , they say , if the priests had opposed themselves to their designs , would have been over-ruled by them . . all which considered , they confess , that no king or prince in the world , disgusting the see of rome , having either force or metal in him , would have endured the priests , but rather have utterly rooted them out of their territories , as traytors and rebels , both to him and his countrey ; and therefore they rejoyce unfeignedly , that god had blessed this kingdom with so gracious and merciful a soveraign , who hath not dealt in this sort with them : and that all catholicks deserve no longer to live , than they hereafter shall honour her from their ●earts , obey her in all things , so far as possibly they may , and pray for her prosperous reign , and long life ; and to their powers defend her against all enemies whatsoever . . they say , notwithstanding all the former provocations from the time of the said rebellion and parliament there were few above twelve that in ten years had been executed for their consciences ( as we hold , say they , although our adversaries say for treason ) and of those twelve some perhaps can hardly be drawn within our account , having been tainted with matters of rebellion : and for the rest , although themselves knew them to be free from seditions , her majesty and the state could not know it , and they had great cause as politick persons to suspect the worst . . they confess , that a parliament being called a. . no laws were made at that time against them : the antient prisoners that had been more narrowly restrained a. . were notwithstanding the rebellion in ireland again restored to their former liberty to continue with their friends , as they had done before : and such who were not suspected to have been dealers or abetters in the said treasonable actions were used with that humanity , which could well be expected . . the state having notice of the second excommunication , and having found the bad effects of the former was concerned in policy to prevent the like by the second . and the jealousie was much increased by sherwin's answer upon examination eight months before the apprehension of campion . for being asked , whether the queen was his lawful soveraign , notwithstanding any sentence of the popes ? he refused to give any answer . then followed a greater restraint of catholicks than at any time before ; and in jan. . a proclamation was made for calling home her majesties subjects beyond the seas ; especially those trained up in the seminaries , pretending that they learned little there but disloyalty . the same month a parliament ensued , wherein a law was made agreeable to the proclamation , but with a more severe punishment annexed , viz. the penalty of death , for any iesuit or seminary priest to repair into england , &c. . they confess , that if all the seminary priests then in england , or which should come after , had been of the mind of morton and sanders , or parsons , the said no law , no doubt , had carryed with it a far greater shew of iustice : but that was , say they , the error of the state , ( and yet themselves say , the state could not know the difference between them ) and yet they add that it was not altogether ( for ought they knew ) improbable , those times being so full of many dangerous designments and iesuitical practices . . this same year campion and other priests were apprehended ; whose answers upon their examinations agreeing in effect with sherwins did greatly incense the state. for this being one of the questions propounded , if the pope pronounce her majesty deprived , and her subjects discharged of their obedience ; and after either the pope , or some by his authority invade the realm , which part would you take , or ought a good subject to take ? to this , they say , some answered , that when the case should happen , they would then take counsel what were best for them to do : others , that when the case happened they would answer ; another , that he was not resolved ▪ what to do ; and another , that if such an invasion were made for any matter of his faith , he thinketh he were bound to take part with the pope . now , say they , what king in the world would not in the same circumstances , justly repute such persons traytors , and deal with them accordingly ? . after this , a new plot was laid between his holiness , the king of spain , and duke of guise , for a sudden and desperate designment against her majesty ; at which time they c●nfess the iesuitical humour had so possessed the hearts of sundry catholicks , as they rue and are ashamed at the remembrance of it . and here they give a particular account of the treasons of throckmorton , arden , somervile , parry , northumberland , babington , stanley , defended by cardinal allen , who laid down this for a maxim , that in all wars which may happen for religion , every catholick is bound in conscience to imploy his person and forces by the popes direction , viz. how far , and where , either at home or abroad , he may and must break with his temporal soveraign . these things , they say , are necessary to be known , to clear her majesty from the imputations of more than barbarous cruelty towards them cast upon her by the iesuits , when themselves were the causes of all the calamities any of them had indured since her majesties reign : and they think , all circumstances considered , few princes living of her judgement , and so provoked , would have dealt more mildly with such their subjects , than she hath done with them . . they confess the spanish invasion . to be an everlasting monument of iesuitical treason and cruelty . for it is apparent in a treatise penned by the advice of father parsons altogether ( as they do verily think ) that the king of spain was moved and drawn into that intended mischief , by the long and daily solicitations of the iesuits and other english catholicks , beyond the seas , affected and altogether given to iesuitism ; and that parsons as they imagine , ( though the book went under a greater name ) endeavoured with all his rhetorick to perswade the catholicks in england to joyn with the spaniards : but cara●nal a●en takes it upon himself , and saith the p●●● had made him cardinal , intending to send him his legat for the sweeter managing this ( forsooth ) godly and great affair : and there he affirms that there were divers priests in the kings army , ready to serve ever mans necessity : and promises them the assistance of all the saints and angels , and of our blessed saviour himself in the soveraign sacrament ( after a very invisible manner ) and they do not at all deny , that the pope did joyn and contribute towards this intended invasion . . that in these ten years from . to . the prisoners at wisbich lived together without any trouble , colledge-like , without any wan● ; that of all sorts towards the number of fifty suffered death ; as they think , most of them for conscience , but as their adversaries do still affirm for treason : that such priests as upon examination were found any thing moderate , were not so hardly dealt with ; insomuch as fifty five that might by the laws have been put to death , in one year . and in a dangerous time , were only banished ; and that although some hard courses were taken against them , yet it was not by many degrees so extream , as the iesuits and that crew have falsly reported and written of it . . that there being just apprehensions of a new invasion , a proclamation was set out . against sem●nary priests , as being suspected to 〈◊〉 sent hither to p●●pare a way for it ; and parsons did not only acknowledge such a design , but said the king of spain had just cause to attempt again that enterprise : but in the mean time they tryed a shorter course by the several treasons of heskett , collen , both set on by jesuits , lopez , york , williams ; and squire , animated by walpole the iesuit . . that parsons at last set up the title of the infanta of spain , and endeavoured to get subscriptions to it , and promises to perswade the catholicks of england to submit to it ; and that the seminary priests were to promote her title , against the queen and her lawful successors . from all which they confess , that the iesuitical designs abroad , and the rebellions and traiterous attempts of some catholicks at home have been the causes of such calamities and troubles , as have happened unto them ; great , ( they confess ) in themselves : but far less ( they think ) than any prince living in her majesties case , and so provoked would have inflicted upon us . and what more need to be said , for the vindication of the poenal laws from the charge of injustice and cruelty , than is here so ingenuously confessed by the secular priests , men of the same religion with those who complain of them , men that suffered themselves in some measure , men that throughly understood the true reasons and casions of the several laws that were then made ; and yet a●ter all this , can mr. cressy have the impudence to parallel these laws with those of nero , domitian and dioclesian , and to say , that they who suffered by them , suffered only on the account of religion ? if the primitive christians had been guilty of so many horrible treasons and conspiracies , if they had attempted to deprive emperours of their crowns , and absolved subjects from their allegiance to them , if they had joyned with their open and declared enemies , and imployed persons time after time to assassinate them ; what would the whole world have said of their sufferings ? would men of any common sense have said , that they were martyrs for religion ? no ; but that they dyed justly and deservedly for their treasons . and for all that i can see , all such as suffered in those dayes , for their attempts on their soveraign and countrey , are no more to be said to have suffered for religion , than the late regicides ; who pleaded the cause of god and religion as well as they ; and if the one be martyrs , let the other be thought so too : but if notwithstanding all their fair pretences of religion and conscience , the regicides shall not be thought to suffer for their religion , why then should those in q. elizabeth ' s or king iames ' s time , who suffered on the account of actual treasons , as those did who were engaged in the gunpowder treason , as well as those who suffered in the queens time ? and if the supposition of conscience or religion makes all men martyrs , the regicides will put in their plea for martyrd●m ; if it be not , then there is no reason to say they suffered for religion , whom the law condemned on the account of treason . if it be then allowed , that the laws must determin treason , then it will follow that those suffer for treason who act directly against those laws which determine it to be treason . § . . but suppose the law should make it treason for men to serve god according to their consciences , as for roman priests to officiate or say mass ; can such men be said to suffer for treason if they be taken in the fact , and not rather for their religion ? to this i answer , that a great regard is to be had to the occasion of making such a law for the right interpretation of it . for if plain and evident treasonable actions were the first occasion of making it , as it is confessed in q. elizabeths time , then all those persons lyable to the suspicion of the state , may be seized upon in what way soever they discover themselves ; and in this case , the performing offices of their function is not the motive of the law or reason of the penalty , but meerly the means of discovery of the persons . for by reason of disguises and aequivocations , and mental reservations being set on foot by the iesuits to prevent discovery , the law had no certain way of finding them out , but by the offices of their function , in which the magistrates are sure they will not dissemble so far as that a man who is no priest will not take upon him to say mass : and therefore the law looks upon the office of religion , as only a certain criterion of the persons , and not as the reason of the punishment ; not as the thing that makes them guilty , but as the way of finding the guilty . as if we should suppose upon the account of the treasons of many years and frequent rebellions and conspiracies for the destruction of the king and kingdom ▪ which any sectaries among us should be found guilty of ( as for instance , i will put the case of quakers as more easily differenced : ) i desire to know , whether if the law made it poenal for men , not to put off their hats , only out of consideration of the treasonable doctrines and practices they were guilty of , should that man who were taken because he did not put off his hat be said to suf●er on that account , and not rather upon the first reason and motive of the law ? in the statute eliz. c. . the whole intent and design of the law is expressed to be , to keep persons from withdrawing her majesties subjects from their obedience to her : and because the pope had engaged himself in several treasons and rebellions against her , by giving assistance to them , and endeavouring what in him lay to deprive the queen of her crown , therefore the drawing any persons to promise obedience to the pope is adjudged treason , as well as to any other prince , state , or potentate . and where there is an equality of reason , why should there not be an equality in the punishment ? if any other prince should have engaged persons in the same actions which the pope did , there is no question they had been treasonable actions ; the question this , whether that which would be treason if any other commands it , ceases to be treason when the pope allows or requires it ? if it doth so , then the pope must be acknowledged to have a supreme temporal power over princes , and they are all but his vassals , which is expresly against the ancient law of r. . if it remains treason , then those may be justly executed for treason who do no more than what the pope requires them , and which they may think themselves bound in conscience to do . but on this account may not any act of religion be made treason , if the law-makers think fit to make it so ? by no means ; for in this case , there was an apparent tendency to disobedience and treason in promising obedience to the pope ; but there is no such thing in any meer act of religion , considered as such : but when priests have been known to be the common instruments of treasons , as they were then , by the confession of the secular priests ; then those actions which are performed by such persons , and are proper only to themselves , are looked on in the sense of the law and according to the intention of it , but only as the certain means of knowing the persons whom the law designs to punish . so that if we do allow , that the law of the land can declare treason in any sort of persons , and punish persons for being guilty , and appoint a certain means of discovering the guilty ; then there is nothing in that severe law eliz c. . which is not according to justice and equity ; alwayes supposing , that some notorious treasonable actions , and not the bare acts of religion were the first occasions or antecedent motives of those laws , which is fully confessed and proved in this case by the most impartial witnesses , viz. the secular priests . and the preface to the statute eliz. c. . gives the best interpretation of the design of it , viz. whereas divers persons , called or professed iesuits , seminary priests , and other priests which have been , and from time to time , are made in the parts beyond the seas , by or according to the order and rites of the romish church , have of late comen and been sent , and daily do come and are sent into this realm of england and other the queen majesties dominions of purpose , ( as it hath appeared ) as well by their own examinations and confessions , as divers other manifest means and proofs , not only to withdraw her highness subjects from their due obedience to her majesty , but also to stir up and move sedition , rebellion , and open hostility , within the same her highness realms and dominions , to the great endangering of the safety of her most royal person , and to the utter ruine , desolation and overthrow of the whole realm , if the same be not the sooner by some good means foreseen and prevented . for reformation whereof be it ordained , &c. can any thing be plainer from hence , than that the whole scope and design of this law is only to prevent treasonable attempts , though masked only under a pretence of religion ? if the design had been against their religion , the preface of the law would have mentioned only the exercise of their religion , which it doth not . but withal is there not a proviso in the same act , that it shall not in any wise extend to any iesuit or priest that will take the oath of supremacy ; then it seems all the religion they suffer for must be contai●ed only in what is renounced by the oath of supremacy . and is this at last the suffering for religion mr. cressy talks of , viz. for the popes personal authority and iurisdiction here ? but who were the men that first rejected that autho●ity and jurisdiction here ? former princes long before the reformation did it as far as they thought fit ; and made no scruple of restraining it , as far as they judged convenient ; and upon the same reasons they went so far , h. . and other princes might go much farther . for the reason they went upon was , the repugnancy of what they opposed to the rights of the crown ; and was there any other ground of the casting out the popes supremacy , when long experience had taught men that it was to little purpo●e to cut off the tayl of the serpent , while the head and body were sound ? but who were the zealous men in henry the eighths dayes against the popes authority and jurisdiction ? were not stephen gardner and bonner as fierce as any against it ? and if they were not in good earnest , they were notorious hypocrites , as any one may see by reading gardners book of true obedience , with bonners preface ; wherein very smart things are said , and with good reason against making the supremacy challenged by the pope any part of catholic● religion . did not all the bishops in h. . time , ( fisher excepted ) joyn in rejecting the popes supremacy ? and was there no catholick religion left in england when that was gone ? it seems then the whole cause of religion is reduced to a very narrow compass , and hangs on a very slender thread . if there be no more in christian religion , than what is rejected by the oath of supremacy , it a is very earthly and quarrelsome thing ; for it filled the world with perpetual broils and confusions , and produced dreadful effects where ever it was entertained ; and leaves a sting behind where its power is cut off . but the author of the answer to the execution of iustice in england , &c. who is supposed to be cardinal allen , speaks out in this matter , and saith plainly , that it is a part of catholick doctrine , that heretical princes being excommunicated by the pope , are to be deprived of their kingdoms , and their subjects immediately upon excommunication are absolved from their allegiance ; which he saith , is not only the doctrine of aquinas , and tolet , and of the canon law , but of the council of lateran , and as he endeavours to prove , of scripture too : and that war for religion is not only just but honourable ; and for the deposing of princes , he brings several instances from gregory the seventh downwards : particularly king john and henry the second ; and saith , that the promise of obedience to princes is only a conditional contract , and if they fail of their faith to god , they are free as to the faith they promised them . this i confess , is speaking to the purpose , and the only way in appearance to make them suffer for religion ; for no doubt , these were the principles , which led them to those treasonable practices for which they suffered . but the main question remains still , whether treason be not treason , because a man thinks himself bound in conscience to commit it ? and whether magistrates have not reason to make severe laws , when such dangerous and destructive principles to government are embraced as a part of religion ? if there be any such thing as civil government appointed by god , it must be supposed to have a just and natural right and power to preserve it self : but how can it maintain it self without a just power to punish those that disturb and overthrow it ? if it have such a power , it must have authority to judge of those actions which are pernicious and dangerous to it self ; and if there be such a natural inherent right , power and authority , antecedently to any positive laws of religion ; either we must suppose that religion left civil government as it was , and then it hath the power of judging all sorts of actions , so far as they have an influence on the civil government , so that no pretence of religion can excuse treasonable actions ; or we must assert that the christian religion hath taken away the natural rights of government which is very repugnant to the doctrine of christianity , and all the examples of the primitive church . the substance therefore , of what i say about suffering for religion , or for treason is this ; that whatever principles or actions tend to the destruction of the civil government , are in themselves treasonable antecedent to laws ; that laws may justly determine the nature and degrees of punishment , that those who are guilty of such actions , let them be done out of what principle soever , are justly lyable to punishment on the account of treason ; and in the judgement of the law and reason do suffer on that account , what ever private opinions they may have who do these things , concerning the obligations of conscience to do them : and where there is just suspicion of a number of persons not easily discerned , the laws may make use of certain marks to discover them , although it happens that those marks prove actions of religion ; which actions are not thereby made the cause of their suffering , but those principles or actions which were the first occasions and motives of making those laws . from which it is , i suppose , evident , that if the antient poenal laws were just and reasonable , our modern laws are so too , because the occasions of making them were of as high a nature , and the guilt as proportionable to the penalty ; and that men did no more suffer for religion by these , than by the antient poenal laws . § . . . but supposing these laws were acknowledged to be just and reasonable ▪ as to the actors of those treasons , the question is , whether they continue just , as to other persons who cannot be proved actually guilty of those treasons ? and here i confess , as to the principles of natural reason , the case doth vary according to circumstances : for , . in a jealous and suspicious time , when many treasons have been acted , and more are feared by virtue of bad principles , the government may justly proceed upon the tryal of the principles to the conviction of persons who own them , without plain evidence of the particular guilt of the outward actions of treason . for the very designing of treason is lyable to the severity of the law , if it come to be discovered ; and where the safety of the publick is really in great danger , the greatest caution is necessa●y ●or the prevention of evil ; and some actions are lawful for publick safety which are not in particular cases . especially when sufficient warning is given before-hand by the law , and men cannot come within the danger of it without palpable disobedience , as in the case of seminary priests coming into the nation , when forbidden to do it under severe penalties ; in which case the very contempt of the law and government , makes them justly obnoxious to the force of it . he that owns the principles that lead him to treason , wants only an opportunity to act them ; and therefore in cases of great danger , the not renouncing the principles may justly expose men to the sentence of the law. and if it be lawful to make any principles or declared opinions or words treasonable , it cannot be unjust to make men suffer for them . . in quiet times when the apprehension of present danger is not great , it hath been the wisdom of our government to suffer the course of law to proceed , but not to a rigorous execution . for the law being in its force , keeps persons of dangerous principles more in awe , who will be very cautious of broaching and maintaining those principles which they hold ; and consequently cannot have so bad effects , as when they have full liberty to vent them ; but in case persons have been seized upon by the legal wayes of discovery , who yet have not been actually seditious , it hath been the excellent moderation of our government , not to proceed to any great severities . . there can be no sufficient reason given for the total repeal of laws at first made upon good grounds , where there is not sufficient security given that all those , for whom they were intended , have renounced those principles which were the first occasions of making them . these things i yield to be reasonable . . that where there is a real difference in principles , the government should make a difference ; because the reason of the law , is the danger of those principles ; which if some hear●●●y renounce , there seems to be no ground , that they should suffer equally with those who will not ; but since the law is already in being , and it is easier to preserve old laws , than to make new ones , whether the difference should be by law , or by priviledge , becomes the wisdom of our law-makers to determine . . that such who enjoy such a priviledge , should give the greatest satisfaction as to their sincerity in renouncing these principles ; for if there be still ground to suspect their sincerity in renouncing , by reason of ambiguous phrases , aequivocations in words , or reservations in their minds , they give instead of real satisfaction , greater cause of jealousie , because of the abuse they put thereby upon the government . for if men do aequivocate in renouncing aequivocation ( which it is very possible for men that hold that doctrine to do ) they thereby forfeit their credit to so high a degree , that they cannot be safely trusted in any oaths or protestations . this therefore ought to be made sure , that men use the greatest sincerity in what they do , or else there is no ground to grant any favour upon their offers of satisfaction . . where there is sufficient ground to believe , that the much greater number will not give sufficient satisfaction as to the renouncing the dangerous principles to civil government , there is no reason for a total repeal of the poenal laws already established . for if the reason of the laws was just at first , and the same reason continues , it becomes not the wisdom of a nation to take off the curb it hath upon a dangerous and growing party : and however cautious and reserved many may seem , while the laws are in force , no man knows how much those principles may more openly shew themselves ; and what practices may follow upon them , when impunity tempts them . i do not plead for sanguinary laws towards innocent and peaceably minded men ( whatever their opinions be ; and how hardly soever my adversaries think and speak of me , i would shew my religion to be better than theirs by having more charity and kindness towards them , than i ●ear they would shew me were i in their circumstances ) but i find that even some of themselves think fit not to have those laws taken off from men of the iesuitical principles ; as appears by a discourse written to that purpose , since his majesties return , by one of their own religion . wherein he shews , . that the iesuitical party by their unjust and wicked practices provoked the magistrates to enact those laws ; and that their seditious principles are too deeply guilty of the blood of priests and catholicks shed in the kingdom ever since they came into it : and that it is their principle to manage religion , not by perswasion but by command and force ; and then reckons up the several treasons in queen elizabeth's time , the iesuitical design of excluding the scottish succession and title of our soveraign ; the gunpowder treason ; which if it were not their invention , he confesses they were highly accessary to it , by prayers before hand , and publick testifications after the fact was discovered ; nay many years after they did , and peradventure to this very day still do pertinaciously adhere to it . . that their practices of usurping iurisdiction , making colledges and provinces in and for enland ; possessing themselves of great summs of money for such ends , are against the ancient laws of the land even in catholick times ; it being the law of england that no ecclesiastical community may settle here , unless admitted by the civil power ; and those that entertain them are subject to the penalties ordained by the ancient laws . . that it is no evidence of their loyalty that any of them have been of the kings side , it being a maxim or practice of their society in quarrels of princes and great men to have some of their fathers on one part and others for the contrary ; which is a manifest sign they are faithful to neither . . that there is no ground to trust them , because of their doctrine of probability ; and their general can make what doctrine he pleases probable , for the opinion of three divines is sufficient to make a doctrine probable , and whatever is so , must be done by them when commanded by their superiours ; so that the tenderness of their consciences is only about doing , or doing what their superiours orders them : besides , their doctrines about deposing princes , equivocations , mental reservations , and divers other juggles . . that they have never yet renounced the doctrine of the popes deposing princes ; that their generals order against teaching this doctrine was a meer trick , and never pretended to reach england , that santarellus his book was printed ten years after it , teaching the power of deposing in all latitude ; and why should the peace of kingdoms have no better security than their generals order ? who knows how soon that may alter , when good circumstances happen ? and then it will be a mortal sin not to teach this doctrine : that the iesuits have never spoken one unkind word against this power of deposing princes ; that when the pope shall think fit to attempt deposing a king of england , no doubt their generals order will be released . . that by their particular vow of obedience to the pope , they are bound to do whatever he commands them ; as for example , if the pope should excommunicate or depose the prince , and command them to move catholicks to take up arms , they are bound by their vow to do it . . that they make themselves soveraigns over the kings subjects , by usurping a power of life and death over those of their order for pretended crimes committed in england , which is high treason ; for their subjects have other soveraigns besides the king. . that there can be no sufficient security given by them , who hold the popes personal infallibility ; for whatever protestations , or renunciations they may make at present , they will be obliged to the contrary whensoever the pope declares his judgement so : and therefore no hearty allegiance can be expected from those who hold it , but such as must waver with every blast from rome . . that they not only renounce the doctrines of equivocation and mental reservation , without which all other protestations afford very little security ; but men ought to be assured , that they do not practise them , when they do renounce them ; and he desires them to find out some way for this , which it seems came not into his head . . that without renouncing those doctrines which are dangerous to the civil government there is no reason to expect favour from it : for temporal subjection to princes is the main ground of the peace and good government of the common-wealth ; and what is against that is against the law of god and nature . § . . i now come in the last place to consider the proposals made by mr. cressy for satisfaction to the government and the repeal of the poenal laws : which are of two kinds , . subscribing the censures of the faculty of paris . and . . taking the oath of allegiance , if the word heretical were turned into repugnant to the word of god. but , . it were worth knowing what authority mr. cressy had to make these proposals in behalf of all the roman-catholicks of england : he saith indeed , that his book is published permiss● superiorum , and what he writes , is not the inconsiderable opinion of one particular person only : and what then ? it may be two or three more may be of his mind , it may be his superiours are , it may be several gentlemen not governed by the iesuitical party a●e : but is the state of affairs so mightily changed among them since ? will not the same reasons ● old good still , that the iesuitical party is not to be trusted in these matters ▪ have they made any renunciation since , of any of those doctrines which were thought so dangerous then ? or are they quite gone from us , and to use mr. cressy's own comparison , like rats have forsaken a sinking ship ? it would be great joy to the whole nation to hear we were so well rid of them ? but which way went they ? in what storm were they carried ? was it in the late great hurrican ? or were they conveyed invisibly through some passage under ground ? but they are subtle men , they say , and full of tricks , and therefore may seem to be gone and not be gone , even as they please . mr. cressy it seems hath a a power beyond proclamations , for he can send away the whole fry in a tr●ce ; but a turn of his hand , and not a iesuit , or a man of his principles appears more in england . but for all this , neither the benedictins , nor secular priests , can get rid of them so easily ; they swarm and govern too much for their interests ; they have too many colleges in england to forsake them so easily , and too rich a bank to run away and leave it behind them : it may be , some of the poorer orders would fain be fingering of it , and therefore represent the poor harmless iesuits , as the only dangerous persons to the civil government , whereas they think themselves as honest as their neighbours , and say , they hold no doctrines but what other divines hold as well as they , and if they understood themselves they would find to be the doctrine of the catholick church for six hundred years ; only a few temporizing secular priests , and some others out of spight to them , and hopes to get a better harvest to themselves when they are gone , would lay all the blame upon the iesuits : whereas the doctrine they own was the general doctrine of their church and received here in england , ( the council of lateran which decrees the popes power over princes having been received here by the council at oxford a. . ) and what a●do is made now with the iesuits , as though they had been the first broachers and only maintainers of the doctrine of the popes power of deposing princes , which hath been decreed in councils , accepted by churches , and only opposed by some , out of the passions of fear or hopes from temporal princes ? what do ye tell us ▪ say they , of the sorbon , a club of state divines , that act as if they believed the king of france 's infallibility , though they will not own the popes ? what matter is it what some few men say that are over-awed by secular princes ? shew us the divines at rome , where men may speak freely , that hold otherwise : was the popes nuncio that appeared so bravely for the catholick cause in the head of an army in ireland a iesuit ? or were 〈…〉 adherents that cast off the kings authority there iesuits ? are all the anti-remonstrants in ireland iesuits ? and what think we , are not all those who opposed the irish romonstrance , very ready to give full satisfaction in these matters ? nay , in the good humour mr. cressy found all english roman catholicks , it was pitty , he had not gone farther ; and who knows , but in so lucky a day , the pope and cardinal barbarine might have subscribed the censures of the faculty of paris ? but well fare the honest apologist for the iesuits who answered the reasons unreasonable , and declares that he is no iesuit , yet he saith plainly , it would be a temerarious oath to for swear in general terms a deposing power in the pope , but to detest it as an heresie would be absolutely schismatical : but he gives very foolish reasons , why the effect of that power need not be feared in england ; because , forsooth , constantine left out england in his donation to the pope ; did he so indeed ? it was a great kindness to the place of his nativity . but withall he adds , though there be much talk of king johns resignation of his crown to the pope , yet the deed of conveyance lies so dormant in the vatican , that it could never be awaked or produced on any provocation . and is this the security the pope will never exercise his deposing power in england ? but do not you think the pope makes too much of it , to shew it to all comers ? and yet this apologist need not have gone to the vatican , to have seen that very bull of the pope , wherein king john 's resignation is contained ; for it was ●ately to be seen in england . but suppose king john 's original were burnt at lions , as our historians think ; hath the pope never challenged any power over princes , but where they were feudatary to h●m ? alas for his ignorance ! the pope ●or a need hath a threefold claim to this p●wer , and he can make use of which he thinks best ; the feudatary , the direct temporal , and the indirect temporal . the feu●ata●y is by voluntary resignation , the direct te●poral by the canon law , and the indirect by the sins of princes ; for those , if they happen to be of a right kind , as heresie , apostasie , mis-government , &c. give the pope a notable title to their crowns , for then they fall to him by way of escheat as the principal lord : but suppose the pope should to save quarrels , quit the feudatary claim , what security is there against the two other , that may do as much mischief as the first ? for all that i can see then , mr. cressy had not sufficient letter of atturney to declare in behalf of all the roman catholicks , that they would subscribe the censures of the sorbon ; for the popes deposing power is yet good doctrine among many of them . but why did mr. cressy take no notice of any difference among them about these points ? must we protestants be still thought such pittiful animals , as not to know that which hath been publickly canvased among them about the full age of a man , viz. near seventy years ! alas for us ! we never heard of blackwell , and barclay , and widdrington of one side ; nor of bellarmin , and singleton , and fitzherbert of the other : we have only a little grammar learning , and can make a shift to understand the greek testament , and read calvins institutions , or danaeus upon peter lombard ; but for these deep points , it is well we have ever seen those that have heard others say they have seen the books that handle them . but why should mr. cressy so slily pass over the business of the nuntio in ireland ? was that nothing to the purpose ? did not the person of honour mention it several times , that he could not avoid seeing it ? but we must forget all those things ; and cardinal barbarins letters about the irish remonstrance : and whatever is material , if it cannot be answered , is better let slip . yet , is it possible for us to believe that all roman catholicks are so willing now to renounce the dangerous doctrines ; when there hath been so late , so numerous , so vehement , ( nay , i had almost said ) so catholick , an opposition to the irish remonstrance ? not , as mr. cressy would have it believed , out of indignation at a particular person , ( who had much greater authority for what he did on the behalf of the rest by his procuratorium than mr. cressy doth appear to have ) nor a quarrel at phrases , but at the very substance of the doctrine contained in it . was it only about some phrases , that the popes internuntio at brussels de vechiis condemned it ? when he said , it contained in it propositions agreeing with those already reprobated by paul the fifth , and innocent the tenth , and this he expressed as the mind of the pope . was it only about phrases , when he said the remonstrance would do more hurt than all the former persecutions of hereticks ? was it only about phrases , when cardinal barbarin charged the remonstrants with corrupting faith under a pretence of allegiance to the king : and he adds too , that the propositions were condemned before by the apostolical see ; and that his holiness was troubled to the very heart about it ? methinks , a few phrases only , should not have given his holiness so much disturbance . was it only for some phrases , that the dominicans opposed it , as contrary to the doctrine of thomas aquinas , who roundly asserts the popes power of deposing heretical princes ? and they pleaded , they were sworn to maintain his doctrine . it seems then , they can give no security to the state without perjury ; and i suppose there were some of these among mr. cressy's roman catholicks , who were so ready to renounce this doctrine . was it only for a few phrases , that the lovain divines condemned it , as wholly unlawful and detestable ; and containing things contrary to catholick religion ? the true grounds of which , were the taking away the popes power over princes , and the great diana of ecclesiastical liberty . if mr. cressy accounts these but phrases , the court of rome owes him but little thanks for it . but this is so ridiculous a pretence , that all the quarrells about the irish remonstrance were only about a few phrases , that either he looks on the parties as extreamly quarrelsome , or it must be some greater matter which he confesses was the occasion of so many commotions , dissentions , and scandalous invectives on both sides . since then , there hath so long been , and we have reason still to believe there is , such a difference among them about these matters , how can mr. cressy undertake so boldly as he doth on the behalf of english catholicks for the subscribing the censures of the faculty of paris ? but of all sorts of men , i am apt to mistrust great undertakers . § . . . but supposing they should subscribe the sorbon censures , we may yet question , whether hereby they would give full satisfaction in these matters : mr. cressy is of opinion , that this would be a more full and satisfactory testimony of their fidelity , than can be given by taking the oath of allegiance ; which makes me very much wonder , why they should refuse the less satisfactory , and choose that which is more . but men had need to have fast hold , that are to handle such slippery points as these are ; for when we think we have them safe , they slip through our fingers and escape . those who have not considered all their arts and evasions in these matters , would think they offer as fair things as any men in the world ; but when it comes home to the point , there is some sly distinction or mental reservation , by which they get through all , and are as much at liberty as ever . that alone which in our age and kingdom can give satisfaction , . must reach our own case , and not that of the king of france ; i. e. . of a king not of the same profession of religion with those who make the profession of fidelity ; . of a king or kingdom already under censure of excommunion , as cardinal barbarin declared : . of a king , not barely considered as a king , i. e. while he remains such , and the pope doth not declare him not to be a king ; but so as to declare it , not to be in the popes power , to make him no king. for men may subscribe the censures of sorbon , understanding them of kings of their own religion , not excommunicated by the pope , and while the pope doth not declare them to be no kings . . what gives satisfaction in our case , must exclude all manner of aequivocation and mental reservation ; for where that is not excluded , there can be no security at all given ; it being impossible to bring aequivocations and reservations within any bounds ; nay , those who hold it lawful to use them , may deny it , and do it in denying it ; therefore the matter of aequivocation must be stated , how far , and upon what terms , and in what cases they allow it ; and yet there may be aequivocation in all this . so that as aequivocation hath all the advantages of lying , it hath the disadvantage too , viz. that those who use it cannot safely be trusted , though they do not use it ; because though it be possible they may not , no man can be well assured that they do not . but the sorbon censures never mention aequivocation at all , and therefore i do not wonder to see such as mr. cressy ready to bring in those , instead of the oath of allegiance , because although himself and some others may disown the doctrine of aequivocation , yet if that be not expresly excluded , they know the very iesuits will swallow a camel , let them but have the dressing of him . they know so many tricks of legerdemain , that i do not see why a very cunning iesuit may not then think himself a fit match for the devil himself ; for let him make never so many promises in words , he would have such a secret reservation in his mind , as should make his words to signifie nothing . but it is not safe for them to play such tricks with so old a sophister , that first found out the way of aequivocation . . what gives satisfaction in our case , must exclude absolutely all power of dispensing in the pope ; for if that be reserved they are safe enough ; they know how to get out presently , for they have one ready that can knock off all their shackles , and set them as free as ever ; nay , they have yet another fetch concerning the popes power , for he can null an oath before-hand , and make it stand for nothing , as well as absolve them from it afterwards . but how then can the sorbon censures be so satisfactory in our case , when they never so much as mention the popes power of dispensing , much less disclaim it so plainly as it ought to be done , to give satisfaction ? so that we see , it is not without reason mr. cressy would so willingly have the oath of allegiance changed for the sorbon censures : and i do not at all wonder that fourteen iesuits in france offered to subscribe the sorbon censures . which mr. cressy offers , as the most satisfactory form , who never yet could well swallow the oath of allegiance ; for they very well knew whatever they did swear in france could be dispensed with at rome . § . . . but farther he declares their readiness to take the oath of allegiance it self , if the word heretical were left out . whose readiness doth he mean ? all roman catholicks , iesuits and all ? and hath this indeed been the only bone of contention thus many years ? did bellarmin , suarez , lessius , fitz-herbert and the rest of the opposers of this oath , find no other fault with it , but only that a doctrine was declared heretical , which was never condemned in any general council ? would they have been content to have called the popes power of deposing princes new , false , erroneous , and contrary to the word of god , though not heretical ? for shame , let not men go about thus to impose upon us , as though all the difference were about this nicety in the signification of a word . it would be needless in so plain a case to shew upon what principles those went who opposed the oath of allegiance ; but i shall only instance in fitzherbert , being of our own nation , and as considerable as any ; he therefore insists upon it , that it is an unlawful oath , because it flatly contradicteth the lateran council , as to the popes power of deposing princes : but that is not all , but his design is at large to prove , that it is repugnant to the law of god in the old and new testament , to the practice of the church , and express declaration of the pope by three apostolical breves ; and to those that object , that the popes first breve was obtained surreptitiously and for want of good information ; he saith , it is not only ignorance but malice in any to say so , because the pope published another breve on purpose to declare that the first was not surreptitious , but written upon his own certain knowledge , motion , and will , and after long and grave deliberation had concerning all things contained therein , and that therefore the catholicks were bound to observe it wholly rejecting all interpretations to the contrary ; and by his third breve he gave authority to the arch-priest to deprive all seminary priests under his iurisdiction that had taken the oath , or had taught or did still teach it to be lawful to take it ; nay , he adds farther to take off that common evasion , that the pope was not duly informed , that before the sentence passed against it at rome , it was long debated in certain congregations of learned cardinals , and other great divines ; wherein cardinal bellarmin had but one voyce , and father parsons ( whom they suspect to have mis-informed the pope ) none at all . now the pope did not condemn it meerly on the account of the word heretical , but because he said , the oath contained in it many things , contrary to faith and the salvation of souls . and therefore all those who have any regard to the popes sentence in a matter of such importance have other reasons to decline taking the oath , supposing the word heretical were le●t out . but some men love to pretend that a small alteration in established laws would satisfie them , to try if by those arts , they could bring the wisdom of the nation to yield to them in that , and when they have obtained it , then a thousand other objections are raised that were not mentioned before : so i doubt not but it would be in this case , if the word heretical were left out , and when they had gained this point , then they would start another , and another till the whole oath were brought to nothing , and i a. b. left to stand alone . but it is a very strange thing to me , that they who can swallow all the other parts of the oath should stick so much at the word heretical ; for if they would use some of the same mollifying distinctions that they do about the other parts of it , methinks heretical might go down as glib as the rest . were i of their religion , i should more scruple detesting , abjuring , and abhorring from my heart , than calling a thing heretical ; the other are downright and plain words capable of no ambiguity ; but heretical , is a word , that may signifie this or another thing , as men please . that is heretical with one that is not with another , and heretical may be meant in the sense of the givers , and not the receivers ; which is mr. cressy's way . but besides , what is it is said to be heretical ? that princes which be excommunicated or deprived by the pope , may be deposed or murthered by their subjects , or any other whatsoever ; where or being a disjunctive particle , if to say that princes deprived may be murdered be heretical , though to say they may be deposed be not , yet that is enough to make a disjunctive proposition true . this is one of widdringtons wayes ; but he hath yet two more ; viz. that , as heretical doth not imply equality but similitude , and that they do abhor and detest it as much , as if it were formal heresie ; but the main of all is , that a thing is not therefore heretical because the church defines it ; but because it is repugnant to catholick faith , or which is all one to that which is revealed by god ; which he proves to be the proper notion of heresie , from alphonsus à castro , covarruvias and others : and if this were not the true notion of it , the church would have power to make new articles of faith ; and therefore upon the same ground that any person rejects any doctrine as repugnant to the word of god , he may reject it as heretical . i cannot therefore imagine , whatever mr. cressy says , that it would give such general satisfaction to have the word heretical turned into repugnant to the word of god ; for i cannot think the roman-catholick gentlemen to be men of so weak understandings , to be able to digest all other parts of the oath , and to refuse taking it only on the account of the word heretical . i must therefore beg pardon , if i be not of too easie a faith in this matter ; it is easie to guess where the oath pinches , better than so . § . . . but after all this , i am not satisfied , with the grounds of mr. cressy's hopes , that the taking off the objection as to their loyalty may be sufficient reason for the toleration of their religion ; which is the thing aimed at in this discourse . for although the inconsistency of any religion with the civil government be a sufficient ground against the toleration of such a religion ; yet it s not being inconsistent is not enough for its toleration . for the matter of toleration , in a nation where there is a publick religion established by law , hath a respect two wayes , to the civil government , and to the established religion : and the civil government is bound to defend and protect the established religion ; because it is agreed on all hands that it is bound to defend the true religion , and that is declared by the laws to be the true , which is established by them . now , if a party appears active and dangerous , whose principles are destructive to the religion established by law , i appeal to any man of common sense , whether it be sufficient ground for the toleration of it , that one objection is taken off , when the other remains in its fuil force ? that which is then to be considered in this case , is , whether such a party , which is dangerous without toleration , will grow less dangerous by it ? which i think needs no great consideration ; and it will require as little , to shew the danger that will come to the established religion by a toleration of popery : not only by the diligence , industry , and number of the priests , who will be glad to make new converts to gain new residences , ( they being at present so much over-stocked ; ) besides their desires to approve themselves to the court of rome for preferments by their activity ; and telling brave stories beyond seas of their exploits against hereticks , ( as a late miles gloriosus among them hath done ) how many legions of hereticks they have blown away by the power of principles and demonstrations ; but , by the obligation that lyes upon them that receive preferments from rome , to persecute hereticks , schismaticks , and rebels to the pope to their uttermost ; which is expressed in the oath they take to the pope ; as appears by the pontifical ; so that these men must either be perjured , or persecute when it lyes in their power . and can any nation in the world think it wise or safe to give toleration to wolfs among sheep ; to those that have solemnly sworn to persecute to their power all that own the established religion ? and that look upon all such as in a damned condition that do not submit to their church ? till they abate of their monstrous uncharitableness , till they renounce their oaths to the pope , till they can give good security of their quiet behaviour in not seducing others , what pretence can there be , for their being allowed a free exercise of their religion , supposing they should take the oath of allegiance ? but as to their dignified clergy , i mean such of his majesties subjects , whom the pope hath taken upon him to make bishops without his consent ( which was not suffered by some princes , even in times of popery ) it ought farther to be considered , what security any following oath can give as to those that have taken a former oath of allegiance to the pope ? as i have already proved it to be ; as much as king iohn's was , upon the resignation of his crown ; nay yet farther , they are bound now by that oath to defend all those provisions and reservations , and apostolical mandates , which were accounted the intolerable grievances of this nation , long before the reformation . but why may they not enjoy equal liberty with the sectaries ? i am not pleading the sectaries cause , ( neither would others plead it now but for a farther end ) nor would i extenuate the guilt of their separation ; but they are blind , that do not see the difference between the parties , if not as to number , yet as to interest , forreign dependence , and danger to the church of england : for surely , a man is not in so much danger of being stung to death by gnats , as being poisoned by vipers : i mean in respect of the avowed principle of persecuting all dissenters , in the roman church : which it were easie to manifest , not only from our domestick story , and the entertainment in queen maries dayes ; and from the history of the inquisition abroad ; but from the cabal at the council of trent between the popes legats , and the embassadours of catholick princes about the utter extirpation of the protestant religion ; and the defigns that were carried on in prosecution of this in most parts of europe , especially in germany , flanders , and france ; but i shall not meddle with the secret intrigues , but the open and avowed principles . in france , claudius de sainctes published a book against toleration , a. d. . wherein he pleads with all his strength for the utter extirpation of protestants ; the like did iacobus pamelius in flanders ; and both of them answer all the common and popular arguments now brought for toleration : the same did scioppius in germany ; and we all know what the dreadful consequences were in all those places . but this is a subject too large to enter upon now : for my part , i am no friend to sanguinary laws on the account of religion ; and if the wisdom of our law-makers should think fit to change that popular way of publick suffering ( which the sufferers would have still believed to be for religion ) into a more effectual course of suppressing the growth of a party so dangerous to our established religion , i should more rejoice , it may be , therein , than those who are more concerned in it . provided , that the pretence of making new laws more accommodate to our present state , be not carried on meerly with the design of leaving our church without any security by law at all against so violent and dangerous a party : for it is a much easier matter to repeal old laws , than to make new ones . and if the objection against the old laws be , that they are not executed , it ought to be considered whether the same objection will not lye against others , unless they be such laws as will execute themselves ; and we have little reason to believe that they who bid difiance to our present laws , and make sport with proclamations , will be perswaded by gentler means to obey others . and is such an affront to laws a sufficient motive to lenity ? and we have good ground to think , that that they look upon all our laws , whatever they be , as things of no force at all upon their consciences , as being null in themselves , because they are contrary to the popes authority and the constitutions of their church . and i believe if our modern papists were pressed home , the generality of those who are obnoxious to the poenal laws , would not acknowledge those ancient rights of the crown , which were challenged by william the conquerour , william rufus , henry the first , henry the second , ( before his submission to the pope ) and afterwards by edward the first , and edward the third ; viz. no exercise of any forreign jurisdiction here without the kings consent ; no liberty of going out of the kingdom , though upon the popes command , without the kings leave ; and while they allow this power to the pope to command his majesties subjects , they make him soveraign over them , and make them more fearful of disclaiming his power ; no decrees of popes or bulls to be received without the kings approbation ; no bishops to be made by papal provisions out of the plenitude of his power , &c. those who will not reject these , which were challenged by the kings of england long before the reformation , as their ancient and undoubted rights , with what face can they plead for the repeal of the poenal laws ? when the ancient law of england makes them guilty of violating the rights of the crown . if they say , the case is not the same now upon the change of religion ; i desire to know of them , whether any ancient rights of the crown are lost by casting off the popes authority ? if they be not , they are good still , and what are they then that deny them ? if they be lost , then our kings have lost some of their soveraign rights which their ancestors valued above half their kingdoms ; and how could they lose them by casting off the pope , if they did not receive them ●rom him ? if they received them from him , then they make the kings power to be so far at least derived from the pope ; for if it were independent upon him , how could they lose any power , by casting off the popes authority ? if it be said , that these were priviledges granted by the popes ; i utterly deny it ; for our kings challenged them in spight of the popes , and exercised them in direct opposition to their bulls and decrees ; even the decrees of councils as well as popes , as is fully manifested in the foregoing discourse . how then can such men plead for the repeal of poenal laws whose principles do so directly contradict the ancient acknowledged rights of the crown of england ? for others that will not only own these ancient rights , but give sufficient security without fraud and equivocation , of their sincerity in renouncing the popes power of deposing princes , and other principles destructive to government ; since it was never the intention of our laws to persecute such , they need not fear the enjoyment of all reasonable protection by them . but it doth not become me to discourse of such points which are far more proper for the wisdom and council of the whole nation : and i know no true protestant would envy the quiet and security of innocent and peaceable men , where there is sufficient assurance , that by favour received they will not grow more unquiet . but we cannot take too great care to prevent the restless designs of those , who aim at nothing more , than the undermining and blowing up our established church and religion : which god preserve . thus much may serve for an answer to these points of mr. cressy's book , the rest i leave to a better hand . and now my lord , what reason have i to beg pardon for so tedious a discourse ! but i know your lordships love to the cause , as well as to the person concerned , will make you ready to excuse and forgive , my lord , your lordships most humble and obedient servant , edw. stillingfleet . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e caramuel . commentar . in regul . s. bened. n. . notes for div a -e prefa●e n. . p. . p. . p. , , ● . epistle apologet●cal sect . , , . from p. . to p. . p. . p. . pet. . . mat. . . . . eph. . . exod. . . p. , , , , . p. . mr. cr●s● . ep. dedicat. p. . p. . p. ● . postscript . p. ● . p. . p. . epist. ded●c . preface to the rea●der . p. . preface to fa●at . 〈◊〉 . epistle apologetic . p. . pr●face to idolatry . preface to the first part of the answer . epist. apologet . from ● . . to ● . . answer , first part from p. . to p. . epist. apologet . from p. . to ● . . from n. . to n. . notes for div a -e fanaticism sect . . n. . p. . a●madvers . p . epist. apologet . sect . ● . . ib. fanaticism p. . p. p. . epist. apologet . n. . maximil . sandaei clavis mystica c. ● carol h●r●●●nt . comment in dio●ys●de mysti●● theolog . pr●●fat . rom●● churches devotions vindicated sect. . sect. . sect. . 〈…〉 . ● . c . ● . . sect. . c. . n. . sect. . sect. ● . epist. apolog . n. ● cor. . tract . apolog●t int●g . societ . de ro●e● cruce d●fendens . a. . p. . v. ioh. à iesu maria th●olog . mysti● . c. . p. . john . . . . . joh. . . . . o. n. roman de●votions vindicated , sect . — sect . . fanat●●sm , p. . p. . a●imadv . p. . roman devotions vindicated sect . , , . roman devotions vindicated sect . . s. teresa 's life , p . c. . e●i● . ▪ . at a●●●p . c. . p. . p. . c. . p. . p. . c. . p. . p . p . p. . c. , , , &c. p ● . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. ● . p. . & . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. ● . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . roman churches devotions vindicated p. . cor. . , , , . p. . p. . o. n. sect . . o. n. ●●ct . , , , , . o. n. sect . . o n. sect . . p. . o. n. sect . . ba●on a. d. n. . euseb. eccl. histor . l. . c. . c. . epiphan . har●s . . sect . . sect. . sect. . psal. . di●inarum g●atiarum cor ●atio o●rium re●●la●ion●m mat riam a eriens . venet . . p. . p. . s●ct . . sect. . hiero●y● . prafat . in nahu● . prafat . in habac. cor. . . v● . p●afat . in isai. l. . ● . in isai. . s. 〈◊〉 . in psa. . . in cor. . hom . . s. basil in isai. 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 o. n. p. . t●rtull . de a●im●● . o. n. sect . . dia●o de diano . ● . o. n. p. . o n. from sect . . to sect . . aug. ● . fortunat . tom. . confess . l. . c. . c. . l. ● c. . l. . c . l. . c. . l. c. . de quantit . anim . c. . de m●rib . eccles cathol . c. . c. . ioh. bo●a de discret . spirituum c. . n. . lut. paris . . paul. zacch quaest. m●dico-legal . l. . tit . . q. . n. . plato in co●viv . in orat . al●ibiadis , p. . ed. ser● . a. g●ll. noct. att● . . c. . caj● t. i●● . . . . a●t . . pro●l●● . c. . b●rniers memoires , par . p. 〈…〉 c. . . . q. . art . . corp . art . card. bona de d●ser . spirit . c. . n. . ioh. à iesu maria theolog . myst. c. . cajet . in . . q. . art . . sanct. sophia tr . . sect . . c. . n. . fortunat. s●acch . de not & sign . sanct. sect . . c. . 〈…〉 sanct soph. ● . . bo●a ib. p. . caset . ● . q. . art . . 〈…〉 carol cl● not . in ga●● ab 〈◊〉 c. . paul. zac●h . qu●st medico l●g . l. . 〈◊〉 , qu. . pa●l . zacch . l. . t●t . . q. . n. . bona de dis●ret . spirit . c. . p. . scacch . p. . sa●cta . sophia tr. . sect . c. . n. . bona ib. & p. . sa●cta sophia tr. . sect . . c. . n. . . ioh. à iesu maria theol . myst. c. . p. , . de discret . spirit . c. . n. . de not. & sig● . sanct. sect . . c. . de discret . spirit . c. . n. . n. . c. . n. . cajet . in . . q. . art . . de discret . spirit . c. . n. . p. . ib. c. . p. . fanati●●●m . p. , . p. . v●●a in co●●i . trid. l. . catharin . de certit . grat . c ult . suarez de fide disp . . sect . . lugo de fide disp . . sect . . ysambert . de fide disp . . art . . suarez ib. n. . concil . l●t●ran . sub leon. . sess . a●●madvers . p. . c● . n. , e●istle apolog●t . p. . fa●a●icis● p. ● . dionys. de mysticâ theol. cap. . d● di●ir . nomi● . c. . ● . . s. joh. . . joh. . . joh. . . cor. . . comment . in myst. theol. p. . iamblich . de myster . segm. . c. . s. a●g●st . de ci. it . dei. l. . ● . c . . c. , . . de vitâ & script . porphyr . c. . 〈◊〉 . vit . porp●yr . porphyrii 〈…〉 n. . n. , , , n. , . n. . n. . n. . n. . de s●ript . po●phyr . c. . aug. de civit . de● . l. . ● . . pl●●● ▪ e●nea● . . l. . c. , , , . e●●●ad . l. . ● . . enn●ad . . l. . c. . c. . c. . c. . enncad . l. . c , . enncad . . l. . c. , . enncad . . l. . c. . i●●bli ● . d● myst r. s●gm . . c. , , &c. de myster . ●egm . . ● . s●●● . . c. . segm . c. . . c. . s●id . v. proclus . marin . de●vit . procli , ante procl . theolog. procl . theo●log . plat. l. . c. . carol. her●sent . a●a● . ad th●o●og ▪ mysti● . p. ● . mars . ficin : de●hristian . r●●ig . c . s●id . in dio●ys . pr● l. theo● . plat ▪ c. . p. . r●sbro●● . de nupt. s●irit . l . c. , , . h. 〈◊〉 theolo● . m●●t . l. . part. . c. . psell. in orac. chald. p. . ora●ul . chaldaic . ed. obsopaei p. , . psell. in orac . chald. p. , . nicep● . gregor in synes . de inso● . p. . ioh. pic. mirand cp . marsil . fici● . p. . h●●●● . in ●●●●a c●●● . p●thag . sy●●s . 〈◊〉 insomn . p. , &c. iamblich . de myster . segm. . c. . p●●cl . in timaeum platon p. . bellarm. de script . ecchs . in dio●●● . petav. 〈◊〉 i●d . ad tom. d● dogm . theol. sirmond . de . dionys. c. . labb● de script . eccles . la●●●v di●cuss . discuss . c. . godea● hist. eglis l. . a. d. . p. . habert . observ . . i● rit . ord●●● . graec. morinus de ordin . sacr. p. . c. . 〈◊〉 . petav. de i●carn . l. . c. . n. . l. . c. . ● . . leo●t . de sectis act . . phat . cod. . fa ●nd . l. . p . lib ●at . i● brev. c. . theodor. hist. eccl. l. . c. . g●a ad catalog . c. . au●●st . de 〈◊〉 c. . auct . frag . c. severi . ap●d canis-anti . lect. to p. . max. sand. i●bilum . societ . iesu ob theolog. mystic . colo● . a. d. . notes for div a -e fanati●ism . p. . anima●vers . p. . p. . p. . p. , . e●●●● a olog . ● . . to ● . . hugo menard , concord . regularum , p. . a●●tol . benedict . p. . p. . regul . benedict . c. . cassian . collat . . c. , , . gazae not● in cassian . col● . . c. . cassian . de i●stitut . re●●●ciant . l. . c. . fanaticism . p. . regul . be●ed . c. . cara● . theolog . regularis . n. . cassian . de . ●act . orat . l. . c. . l. . c. . cassian . collat . . c. me●a d. not . in concord . r●g . p. . st●ab● de ● bus es●●ef . c. . cassian . de no●t . o●at . l. . c. , . reg. 〈◊〉 . c. . c. . pillad . hist. l●●s . de tab●●●sio●s . synod . turo● . . c. . pallud . ib. cassian . de diu●a . orat . l. . c. . c. . c. . regul . bened . c. . regul . bened . c. . menard . in concord . regul . p. . cassian . de noct . o●at . l. . c. , . c. , . r●g bened. c. . s. basil. inter . . gabr. 〈◊〉 . m●●●olng . bened. l. . hugo menard . concord . reg. p. . c. . pallad . hist. 〈◊〉 de tabean●ns . sozom. l. . c. . nic●ph l. . c. . ge●●ad . de script . e●cl● s. i● pachom . vincent . s●ec . l. . c. . martyrolog . rom. maii . rosweyd . no● . in vit . patr. p. . cassian . l. . c. ● 〈…〉 gazae ▪ in regul . pachom . ●pistle apologet . n. . reg. be●ed . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . reg b●●ed . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . sozo● . l. . c. . c. . c. . 〈◊〉 . l. . c. . soz. l. . c. . 〈…〉 soz. l. . c. , , , . v. rosw●●d . vi● . patr. hi●●● vit . 〈◊〉 . soz. l. . c. , . l. . c. . hiero● . ad princi●i●m . hieron . ad 〈◊〉 . cassian . collat . . c. greg. na●ia●z . i● mo●od . cod. th●od . . tit . . baron . a. d. . n. . cod. th●od . . tit . , . chrys or . . ad pop . a●och . sozom. l. . c. . zosin . l. ● . p. . sozom. l. ● ● c. . c. . concil . chalced. act . . p. . leo ●p . . ba●o● . ad a. . n. . ad . . e●iph . haer . . s. . so●r . l. . c. . soz. l. . c. . so●r . l. . c. . soz. l. . c. . evag● . l. . c. . t●eod . lect. l. . 〈…〉 cor. . . syn●s . d●on . p. , &c. petav. not . in sy● . 〈…〉 〈◊〉 . . hi●r . ad ●●stic . p. . vi● paul. 〈◊〉 . p. . hi●●●● . a● rustic . p. . hieron . ad eu●toch . 〈◊〉 . p. . r●g . s. ben●d . c. . epistl● apolog●t . n. . rom. . , . reg. s. bened . c. . menard . in conc . regul . p. . r●g s. ben. ● . . c●ss . l. . c. , . c. ● . c. . 〈…〉 〈◊〉 . i● co●●ord . r●g . p. ● . 〈…〉 〈…〉 . . arnold . wion de antiq . f. ●● iii. i anicià v●n . . cassiod de inst●tut . divi● lic● 〈…〉 i ▪ . c. . l. . c. . a●● . tom . . a. d. . 〈…〉 l. . c. . a●gelus de nuce ad chro● . cassi● . l. . c. . n. . . 〈…〉 c. . 〈…〉 p. . 〈…〉 c. . e●ist . apo● ▪ n. . 〈…〉 ad mo●●ch . 〈◊〉 . p. . 〈…〉 & re●p . p. , , , , , , . p. . p. . epist. apol. n. . sy●od . do●z . . c. . gr●g . t●ron . l. . c. . cassian . praef . ad collat. . eucher . de laud. eremi ▪ annal. eccl. fra●c . a. . n. . gr●g . 〈◊〉 . l c. . 〈◊〉 . f●a●c a. d. . ● . . pro●at . ad s●c . s●cundum b●nedict . n. . 〈…〉 〈…〉 〈◊〉 . eccl. f●an . a. d. . n. , &c ▪ . n. , &c. . ● . . a●●old . wio● . lig● vitae , l. . c. . bibliotheca c●●niac . p. . v. bibloth● cl●nia● . p. , ● &c. p●tr . clunia● e●ist . l. . ●p . . bi●lioth . cl●●iac . p. , &c 〈◊〉 . rom. po●t . 〈◊〉 . . statut. clu●iac . c. . biblioth . c●●niac . p. , &c. chron. clunia● . p. ● p●t . 〈…〉 . l. . ●p . . exo●● . ord●● . cistere . c. . in biblioth . cisterci●● . sig●o . chro● . ad a. d. . s. b●●nard . ●p . . ad rob. n●pot . a●●old . 〈…〉 . vit . l. . c. . vo●at . anthropo●og . ● . . p. ● . lig● . v●tae l. . c. . iac. de v●tri●●o hist. o●●ident . c. . &c. p●tr . d●mia● . opu● . . de ●erf●ct . 〈◊〉 . c. . p●t . damia● . de ●it . s. ro●●aldi . c. . 〈…〉 . . c. . ● . . pet. da● . c. . c. . p●t . dam. de ord. er●mit . fo●tis av●llani . de vit . dominici c. . &c. aub. mirae . origin . mo●ast . l. . c. . a●nold . w●o● . l. . c. . a●to●in . tit . . c. . 〈◊〉 . wio● . l. . c. . 〈◊〉 . tit . . c. . ● . , . ioh ▪ brompton . ad a. . n. . robert. de 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v●t . ign. l. . c. . p. . pallavac . vindi● . soci●t . 〈◊〉 . p. . thom. hurtado r● olut . morales p. . de i●stit . horar. cano ●ic . l. . c. . n. . s●o●t . pallavac . viadicat . societ . 〈◊〉 . c. . i●l . nigro● . comment in regul . commun . societ . ies part . . s. , , &c. martyrolog . franc. addit . s. . literae apostol●c . p. . p. , . literae aposto● . p. . pallavaci● . vi●dicat . societ . iesu . c. p . c. . p. . gallo● . vit . phil. n●rii p . bar●abe . vit . baron . c. . gallot . p. . p. . p. . barnabe . vit . ba●o● . c. . c. . gallon . vit . nerii p ▪ co●stitut . congreg . o●atorii , c. . congreg . oratorii iesu christ. c. . gallia christian. tom. . p. . aqu●n . . . q. . art . . notes for div a -e p. . p. . p . ani●adver . p. . 〈◊〉 . apol● sect . . matth. westmo●a●t . a. d. . wi●●iel . mal●sburie . de ge●tis reg. angl. l. . c. . h●nrie . hunti●gdon . histor. l. . ca●de● in cumberland . p. & . bed● l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . 〈…〉 . 〈…〉 〈…〉 . 〈…〉 bolland . feb. . vit . s. ethelbert . com●ent . praev . s. . n. . biblioth●c . floriac . histor . vit s. gildae c. . church hi●t . l. . c. . n. . l. . c. . n. . bolland . ian. praef . s. . acta sanctorum ordi●is s. bened. s. . p. . malms . hist. angl. l. . c. . ch●rch hist. l. . c. , , , , , . bed. hist. eccles. l. . c. . bolland . vit . e●helb . 〈◊〉 supra . church hist. l. . c. . ● . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 eccles. a●l a. d. . n. . ●●d . hist. eccles. l. . c. . greg. turo● l. . c. . l. . c. . ch●oni . w. thorn. c. . ● . . mal●sbur . de gestis reg angl. l. . c. . beda histor . eccles. l. . c. . church hist. l. . c. . l. . c. . ioh. brom 〈…〉 . gregor . ●p . l. . 〈◊〉 . . ep. . church hist ▪ l. . c. . n. . greg. e● . l. . ●p . . v. mez●r●y ad a. d. . 〈…〉 . tom. . p. . 〈…〉 . s. . baron . annal . ad a. d. ● . n , , , , , . apolog●ti●t . cus li●●●r antonii gallonii advers . const. bellottum . rom. . spondan . ad a. d. . n. . ioh. mabillon pr●efat . ad act●● sanctorum ordin . benedict . s. . 〈…〉 . 〈◊〉 . a. d. . s. . p. . s. . p. . trithem . 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divia . ●ect . p●●●at . &c. . pennot . de canonic . regular . l c. , , &c. i●● p●●t . . c. . gall●n . r●spo●s . ad mo●●●h . 〈◊〉 . p . . 〈…〉 〈…〉 exord . coenob . cist . c. . i● biblioth . cisterc. to. . regula , constitut. & privilegia ordin . cistert à chrysost. heariquez . bed. l . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . church h●st . l. . c. . n. . bed. l. . c. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . church hist. l. . c. . n. . steph. he●d . vit . s. ●il●rid . c. . mamlsb●r . de gestis pontif. angl. l. . church hist. l. c. . n. , , &c. n. . n. . church hist. l. . c. . n. . ● . . bed. hist. eccles. l. . c. . vit. s. wilfrid . c. . bed. l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. 〈◊〉 . steph. h●d . vit . wilfrid . c. . fredeg●d . vit . wilfrid . p. . eadmer . vit . wilfrid . n. . bed. hist. l. . c. . l. . c. ● . v. whe●o . not . in . bed. l. . c. . st●ph . h●dd . vit . w●lfr . c. . p●tav . ani●●●vers ad 〈◊〉 . . epiphan . 〈◊〉 . de synod . & ad africa● . ●p . chrysost. to● . . p. . epiphan . haer . ● . epiphan . h●●r . . petav. animad . in haeres . . uss●r . prolegom ad epist. ignat. c. . clav. cal●nd●r . gregor . c. . sect . . b●d . oper . to● . . sab tit . de v●●nali aequino●tio . eus●b . l. . c. . aegyd . 〈◊〉 . de doctr . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . . vales. not . in euseb. l. . c. . e●s●b . vit . constant. l. c. , . dio●ys . exigui ●p . prima in ●ppend . bucherii . p. . bucher . commentar in victorii canon . pa●ch . c. c. . v. e● seb . vit . const. l. . c. . cyrill . epist. in append. bucherii p. . petav. doctr. t●m . l. . c. . p. . bu●h . doctr . t●m● . c. , , . paschas●i ep. leon. . inter ep. leon. . leo ep. , . prosper . chro● . a. . prosper . chronic. a ▪ d. , ● , , , . v. bucher . comm●nt . in victorii ca●o● . paschal . p. ● . victor . prolog . ad ca● . n. , , . bucher . com. mentar . c. , . ambros. ep . . bucher . comment . p. . v. labb . chronolog . te●hnic . ad a. . & ad a. . greg. turon . l. . c. ● . aegid . b●cher . comment●● . in pas● b. canon . p. . usser . de pri●o● d. eccles. britan . p. . notes for div a -e epist. apol. sect . , . p. . ani●adv . p. . p. . p. . p. , . p. . p. , . p. . p. . e●i●t . a●ol . p. . p. , ● . stat. , & eaw . . stat. r. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . epistle apolog●t . p. . p. . p. . p. , gr●g . ● . ep●stol . l. . ep. . g●●gor . . epist. l. ● ▪ ep. . epistol . ● . . c. . l. . . . lanfra●c . ep. . la●●ra●c . ep. . annal. eccl●siast . a. . n. . henr. de si●gra●e chro●ic . ms in biblioth . cotton . b●rthold . constant. a●p●nd . ad her● . c●●tr . a. . baron● a. d. . n. . greg. . ep● l. . ep . . berthold . ●onst . a. d. . eadmer . prae●at . p. . seld● . not . ad eadm . p. . eadmer . p. . greg. r●gistr . ● . . ep . . l. . ep. ● ; o●d●r . vital . eccles . histor . l. . p. . 〈…〉 a. ● . ead●●r . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. , . p. , ● p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . ead. p. . p. . brompton . c●ro● . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. , . mat paris a. . p. . petr. de marcá de co●co d. sa●erd . & i●p . l. . c. . ● . . floreat . wigorn. 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co●cil . gall. p. . baron . a. . n. , ● richa●d . prior. h●guls● ad . i●ter . script . p. . mal●sb●● . hist. no●ell . l. . p. . gul. n●wburg . l. . c . malmsb. l. . p. ● radulph . de di●c●o . p. . chron. gervas . dorobonn . p. . richard. ha●ulst . . hovede● . a. . radulph . de dic●to . imag. hist. p. . 〈…〉 cod cotton . l. . ep. . codex c●ttonian . epistol . l. . ep. . hov●d●a . annal part . post . p. . baron . a. . n. . gilbert london . epistol . t●onae cant●ar l. . ep. . in cod. cotton . ms. baron . a. . ● . . vit. s. thome ca. 〈◊〉 . ms. in 〈…〉 co●t●● p. . iob. sarisbur . l. . ●● . . l. . ep . , . fitz stephon . vit . thom. cant. p. . codex cotton . p. . la vie de s. thomas de canterb●ry . a paris . history of the irish remonstrance , from p. to . ba●on . a. . n. . cod. cotton . l. . l. . cod. cotton . l . ep . . baron . a. . n. ● 〈◊〉 cotton . 〈◊〉 . cod. cotton . l. . cp . . suger . vit . lu●or . a●lied . de g●nealog . reg. angl , p. . leges edw. co●f●ss . c. . leg. edw. sen. c. . eg●●rt poenit . exc●rpt . c. . leges ca●nti . c. . leges alured . c. ● . theod. canon . poenit. c. . egberti canon . poenitent . c. . leges alured . c. . leges edmund . c. , . leges ●dgar . c. . legis canut . c. . eg●ert . canon . poe●it . c. . 〈…〉 . p. . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . c. . fitz steph. vit . s. thom. p. . radul●●b , de diceto imag●histor . p. . fitz. steph. vit . tho● . p. . fitz. steph. vit . s. thom. p. . gilbert . lo●don . epist. l. . ●p . . b●●on . a. . n. , . a. . n. . cod. cotton . l. . ep . . 〈◊〉 cp . . ioh. sacris●●● . in cod. cotton . l. . ●p . . codex . cotton . l. . ●p . . l. ● . ●p . , . cod. cotton . l. . ep . , , , , , . l. . ep . . cod. cotto● . p. . b. i● . cod. cotton . l. . 〈◊〉 . . cod. cotton . l. . ep . . cod. cotton . l. . p. fitz steph. vit . s thom. ms. ●ott●n p. . bar●● . a. . n. . cod. cotton● p. . baron . a. . n. . cod. cotton . l. . ●p . . baron . a. . n. . cod. cotto● . l. . ●p . . vit. s. th● . p. . cod cotto● . l. . e● . . l. . ep . . l. . ●p . . l. . ep . . l. . ep . . hoved an●al . p. ● . l. . 〈…〉 . . l. . ep . . l. . ep . . l. . ep . , , , . l. . ep ▪ . l. . ep . . l. . ep . . c●d . cotton . l. . ep . , , , , , , , , , ● . l. . ep . , , , , , , , , , , , , . l. . ep . . . l. . ep . . , , , , . l. . ep. ▪ , . baron . a. . n. . i. . ep . ● . ba●o● a. . n. . l. . ep . . ep. ● . petr. bles. ep . . baron . a. . n. . bellarm. apolog. . torto c. . b●can . contr . anglic. q . d' acher . not . in epistol . lanfra●c . . p. . vit. p●tr . bles. l. . ep . . hov●de● . p. . ra● lph . de di●eto imag. histor . p . ge●vas . d●●obern . . hoveden . p. . mat. pa●is p. . radulph . de diceto . p. . pet. bl●s . ep . . g●rvas . dorob●rn . p. . g●●vas . p. . 〈◊〉 ●e di●●to ima● ▪ hist. p. . fi●z s●eph . vi● s. 〈◊〉 . mat ▪ paris . p. , , . odor . raynqld a. . n. , . mat. westminst . ad a. d. . sr. tho. moor ' s supplication of souls . p ▪ ● . b●ll . i●●ocent , . in bib●ioth . cotton . i●●oc●nt . . r●g●st . . n. . odor . raynald . a. . n. . regest . innocent . . l. . ep . . gr●g . l. . ep ▪ . mat. paris . a. . p. . mat. paris a. . p. . 〈◊〉 . p. . mat. paris a. . p. . mat. w●stimi●st . p. . mat. pa●is a. . p. . id. p. ● . id ▪ p. . id. p. . id. p. ● . id. p. . id. p. . abri●gement of the records of the tower , r. . p. . kinghton de event . angl. l. . c. . ch●o●i● . w ▪ thor● . a ● . p. . 〈…〉 a. 〈◊〉 p. 〈…〉 〈…〉 〈◊〉 . ● e. . m. . pat. e. . m. . davis case of praem . cooks report . l. . answ. to cooks rep. . par . ● ▪ ● ▪ 〈◊〉 ed. 〈◊〉 m. . cl●ment . l. . c . 〈…〉 a●ridgeme●t of records . p. . abridgement of records , p. . ib. p. . p. . p. ● . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. ● . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . ep●st . apol. p. . abridgement of records . p. . petr. de mar●● prol●g . p. . l . c. . n. . vita h. chi●bele p. , , , &c. a● a d●●k . abridgement of records . h . n. . sr. i. davis case of praem●nire . c●neert . cathol . part . . c. , , . the jesuits reaso●s unreasonable . . a let●er concerning the jesuits . p. . . history of the irish remonstr . p. . p. . p. . p. . epist. apol. ● . . fitz-herb : reply , ch . . ch. , , , &c. ch. . p. . adjoyn●er to fitz herberts first and second part . p. . n. . p. . epist. apol. p. . revelatio consilio●●m quae initio synodi trideatinae inter pontificem , caesarem caeterosa ; reges , principes , &c. sunt inita . a. . ad edictae principum de li●e ti● sectarum . auct . claudio de sainctes . iacob . pam●lii de religionibus diversis no● admit . a●tw . . casp. scioppii classicum belli sa●ri ticini . . a sermon preached before the king, january , / , being the day of the execrable murther of king charles i by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached before the king, january , / , being the day of the execrable murther of king charles i by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed by robert white for henry mortlock ad are to he sold at his shop ..., london : . 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng charles -- i, -- king of england, - -- sermons. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached before the king , january . / being the day of the execrable murther of king charles i. by edward stillingfleet d. d. rector of st. andrews holborn , and chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . printed by his majesties special command . london , printed by robert white , for henry mortlock , and are to be sold at his shop at the sign of the white-hart in westminster hall. . jude v. ii. and perished in the gainsaying of corah . among all the dismal consequences of that fatal day wherein the honour of our nation suffered together with our martyr'd soveraign , there is none which in this place we ought to be more concerned for , than the dishonour which was done to religion by it . for if those things which were then acted among us , had been done among the most rude and barbarous nations , though that had been enough to have made them for ever thought so ; yet they might have been imputed to their ignorance in matters of civility and religion : but when they were committed not only by men who were called christians , but under a pretence of a mighty zeal for their religion too , men will either think that religion bad which did give encouragement to such actions , or those persons extremely wicked , who could make use of a pretence of it for things so contrary to its nature and design . and on which of these two the blame will fall , may be soon discovered , when we consider that the christian religion , above all others , hath taken care to preserve the rights of soveraignty , by giving unto caesar the things that are caesars , and to make resistance unlawful by declaring that those who are guilty of it shall receive to themselves damnation . but as though bare resistance had been too mean and low a thing for them ( notwithstanding what christ and his apostles had said ) to shew themselves to be christians of a higher rank than others ; they imbrue their hands in the blood of their soveraign for a demonstration of their piety , by the same figure by which they had destroyed mens rights to defend their liberties , and fought against the king for preservation of his person . but the actions of such men could not have been so bad as they were ; unless their pretences had been so great , for there can be no higher aggravation of a wicked action , than for men to seem to be religious in the doing of it . if the devil himself were to preach sedition to the world , he would never appear otherwise than as an angel of light : his pretence would be unity , when he designed the greatest divisions ; and the preservation of authority , when he laid the seeds of rebellion . but we might as well imagine that the god of this world ( as the devil is sometime called ) should advance nothing but peace and holiness in it , as that christianity should give the least countenance to what is contrary to either of them . yet the wickedness of men hath been so great upon earth , as to call down heaven it self to justifie their impieties ; and when they have found themselves unable to bear the burden of them , they would fain make religion do it . such as these we have a description of in this short , but smart epistle , viz. men who pretended inspirations and impulses for the greatest villanies ; who believed it a part of their saintship to despise dominions , and speak evil of dignities ; who thought the grace of god signified very little , unless it served to justifie their most wicked actions . these in all probability were the followers of simon magus the leviathan of the primitive church , a who destroyed all the natural differences of good and evil , b and made it lawful for men in case of persecution , to forswear their religion . c the great part of his doctrine being that his disciples need not be afraid of the terrours of the law , for they were free to do what they pleased themselves , because salvation was not to be expected by good works , but only by the grace of god : no wonder then , that such as these did turn the grace of god into lasciviousness : and when it proved dangerous not to do it , would deny their religion to save themselves . for they had so high opinions of themselves , that they were the only saints , that as d epiphanius tells us , they thought it the casting pearls before swine , to expose themselves to danger before the heathen governours ; by which they not only discovered what a mighty value they set upon themselves , but what mean and contemptible thoughts they had of that authority which god had established in the world . but this they would by no means allow , for they thought all the governments of the world to be nothing else e but the contrivance of some evil spirits to abridge men of that liberty which god and nature had given them : and this is that speaking evil of dignities which they are charged with , not only by our apostle here , but by s. peter before him . although the phrase used by s. peter , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may be taken ( by the use of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the first of maceabees ) not for the bare contempt of authority , expressed by reviling language , but for an open resistance of it ; which the other is so natural an introduction to , that those who think and speak contemptibly of government , do but want an occasion to manifest that their actions would be as bad as their thoughts and expressions are . and from hence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here in the words of the text is made use of to express one of the most remarkable seditions we ever read of , viz. that of corah and his company against moses and aaron ; whose punishment for it did not deter these persons who went under the name of christians , from joyning in seditious practices to the great dishonour of christianity , and their own ruine . for therefore the apostle denounces a woe against them in the beginning of the verse , and speaks of their ruine as certain as if they had been consumed by fire , or swallowed up by the earth , as corah and his accomplices were ; and they perished in the gainsaying of corah . in the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the aorist , saith crotius , is taken for the future , or present , and so implying that these courses did tend to their misery and ruine , and would unavoidably bring it upon them . if the evidence in history had been clear of the carpocratians joyning with the jews in the famous rebellion of barchochebas , wherein such multitudes of christians as well as heathens were destroyed in africa , aegypt , and other places , and the time of it had agreed with the time of writing this epistle , i should then have thought that this had been the rebellion here spoken of ; for all the actors in it were destroyed by the roman power , and some of the chief of them made publick examples of justice for the deterring of others from the like practices . but however this be , we find these persons here charged with a sin of the same nature , with the gainsaying of core , and a judgement of the same nature , as the consequent of the sin ; for they perished in the gainsaying , &c. and therefore we shall consider the words , . as relating to the fact of corah and his company . . as implying as great displeasure of god under the gospel against the same kind of sin , as he discovered in the immediate destruction of those persons who were then guilty of it . . as relating to the fact of corah and his company ; and so the words lead us to the handling , . the nature of the faction which was raised by them . . the judgement that was inflicted upon them for it . . for understanding the nature of the faction , we must enquire into the design that was laid , the persons who were engaged in it , the pretences that were made use of for it . . the design that was laid for that , and all other circumstances of the story , we must have resort to the account that is given of it , numb . . where we shall find that the bottom of the design was the sharing of the government among themselves , which it was impossible for them to hope for , as long as moses continued as a king in jesurun , for so he is called , deut. . . him therefore they intend to lay aside , but this they knew to be a very difficult task , considering what wonders god had wrought by him in their deliverance out of egypt , what wisdom he had hitherto shewed in the conduct of them , what care for their preservation , what integrity in the management of his power , what reverence the people did bear towards him , and what solemn vows and promises they had made of obedience to him . but ambitious and factious men are never discouraged by such an appearance of difficulties ; for they know they must address themselves to the people , and in the first place perswade them that they manage their interest against the usurpation of their governours . for by that means they gain upon the peoples affections , who are ready to cry them up presently as the true patriots and defenders of their liberties against the encroachment of princes : and when they have thus insinuated themselves into the good opinion of the people ; groundless suspicions , and unreasonable fears and jealousies will pass for arguments and demonstrations . then they who can invent the most popular lyes against the government are accounted the men of integrity , and they who most diligently spread the most infamous reports , are the men of honesty , because they are farthest from being flatterers of the court. the people take a strange pride , as well as pleasure , in hearing and telling all the faults of their governours for in doing so they flatter themselves in thinking they deserve to rule much better than those which do it . and the willingness they have to think so of themselves , makes them misconstrue all the actions of their superiours to the worse sense , and then they find out plots in every thing , upon the people . what ever is done for the necessary maintenance of government , is suspected to be a design meerly to exhaust the people to make them more unable to resist . if good laws be made , these are said by factious men to be only intended for snares for the good people , but others may break them and go unpunished . if government be strict and severe , then it is cruel and tyrannical , if mild and indulgent , then it is remiss and negligent . if laws be executed , then the peoples liberties be oppressed ; if not , then it were better not to make laws , than not to see them executed . if there be wars , the people are undone by taxes ; if there be peace , they are undone by plenty . if extraordinary judgements befall them , then they lament the sins of their governours , and of the times , and scarce think of their own . if miscarriages happen ( as it is impossible alwaies to prevent them ) they charge the form of government with them , which all sorts are subject to . nay , it is seldom that governours escape with their own faults , the peoples are often laid upon them too . so here , numb . . . moses is charged with not carrying them into canaan , when it was their own sins which kept them thence . yea , so partial have the people generally been against their rulers , when swayed by the power of faction , that this hath made government very difficult and unpleasing ; for what ever the actions of princes are , they are liable to the censures of the people . their bad actions being more publick , and their good therefore suspected of design ; and the wiser governours are , the more jealous the people are of them . for alwaies the weakest part of mankind are the most suspicious ; the less they understand things , the more designs they imagine are laid for them , and the best counsels are the soonest rejected by them . so that the wisest government can never be secure from the jealousies of the people , and they that will raise a faction against it will never want a party to side with them . for when could we ever have imagined a government more likely to be free from this , than that which moses had over the people of israel ? he being an extraordinary person for all the abilities of government ; one bred up in the egyptian court , and in no mean degree of honour , being called the son of pharaohs daughter , one of great experience in the management of affairs , of great zeal for the good of his countrey , as appeared by the tenderness of his peoples interest in their deliverance out of egypt ; one of great temper and meekness above all the men of the earth ; one who took all imaginable care for the good establishment of laws among them ; but above all these , one particularly chosen by god for this end , and therefore furnished with all the requisites of a good man , and an excellent prince : yet for all these things a dangerous sedition is here raised against him , and that upon the common grounds of such things , viz. usurpation upon the peoples rights , arbitrary government , and ill management of affairs ; usurpation upon the peoples rights , v. . the faction makes a remonstrance asserting the priviledges of the people against moses and aaron , ye take too much upon you , seeing all the congregation are holy every one of them , and the lord is among them ; wherefore then lift you up your selves above the congregation of the lord : as though they had said , we appear only in behalf of the fundamental liberties of the people both civil and spiritual ; we only seek to retrench the exorbitances of power , and some late innovations which have been among us ; if you are content to lay aside your power which is so dangerous and offensive to gods holy people , we shall then sit down in quietness ; for alas it is not for our selves that we seek these things ( what are we ? ) but the cause of gods people is dearer to us than our lives , and we shall willingly sacrifice them in so good a cause . and when moses afterwards sends for the sons of eliab to come to him , they peremptorily refuse all messages of peace , and with their men of the sword mentioned , v. . they make votes of non-addresses , and break off all treaties with him , and declare these for their reasons , that he did dominando dominari , as some render it , exercise an arbitrary and tyrannical power over the people , that he was guilty of breach of the trust committed to him , for he promised to bring them into a land flowing with milk and honey , or give them inheritance of fields and vineyards , but he had not done it , and instead of that only , deceives the people still with fair promises , and so puts out their eyes that they cannot see into the depth of his designs . so that now by the ill management of his trust , the power was again devolved into the hands of the people , and they ought to take account of his actions . by which we see the design was under very fair and popular pretences to devest moses of his government , and then they doubted not but such zealous patriots as they had shewed themselves , should come to have the greatest share in it ; but this which they most aimed at , must appear least in view , and only necessity and providence must seem to cast that upon them , which was the first true motive they had to rebel against moses and aaron . . the persons who were engaged in it . at first they were only some discontented levites who murmured against moses and aaron , because they were not preferred to the priesthood , and of these corah was the chief . r. solomon observes , that the reason of corahs discontent , was , that elizaphan the son of vzziel , of the younger house to izhar from whom corah descended , was preferred before him by moses to be prince over the sons of kohath . corah being active and busie in his discontents , had the opportunity of drawing in some of the sons of reuben , for they pitched their tents near each other , both on the south-side of the tabernacle of the congregation ; and these were discontented on the account of their tribe having lost the priviledge of primogeniture . thus what ever the pretences are , how fair and popular soever in the opposition men make to authority , ambition and private discontents are the true beginners of them : but these must be covered over with the deepest dissimulation , with most vehement protestations to the contrary , nothing must be talked of but a mighty zeal for religion , and the publick interest . so josephus tells us concerning corah , that while he carried on his own ambitious designs , with all the arts of sedition and a popular eloquence , insinuating into the peoples minds strange suggestions against moses his government , as being a meer politick design of his to enslave the people of god , and advance his own family and interest , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he would seem to regard nothing but the publick good . if fair pretences , and glorious titles will serve to cheat the people into their own miseries , and the sad effects of rebellion ; they shall never want those who will enslave them for the sake of liberty , undo them for the publick good , and destroy them with designs of reformation . for nothing is more popular than rebellion in the beginning ; nothing less in the issue of it . and the only true reason that it is ever so , is from the want of wisdom and judgement in the generality of mankind , who seldom see to the end of things , and hardly distinguish between the names and nature of them , till their own dear bought experience hath taught them the difference . sedition is of the nature , and hath the inseparable properties of sin ; for it is conceived with pleasure , brought forth with pain , and ends in death and misery . nothing enters upon the stage with a braver shew and appearance , but however prosperous for a time it may continue , it commonly meets with a fatal end . but it is with this sin as to this world , as it is with others as to the next ; men when they are betrayed into them , are carried away and transported with the pleasing temptations , not considering the unspeakable misery that follows after them . so that what the devils advantage is in order to the ruine of mens souls , is the advantage of seditious persons over the less understanding people ; they both tempt with an appearance of good , and equally deceive them which hearken to them . but as we still find , that notwithstanding all the grave admonitions , the sober counsels , the rational discourses , the perswasive arguments which are used to deter men from the practice of sin , they will still be such fools to yield to the devils temptations against their own welfare : so , neither the blessings of a continued peace , nor the miseries of an intestine war , neither the security of a settled government , nor the constant danger of innovations will hinder men of fiery and restless spirits from raising combustions in a nation , though themselves perish in the flames of them . this we find here was the case of corah and his company ; they had forgotten the groans of their captivity in egypt , and the miracles of their deliverance out of it , and all the faithful services of moses , and aaron ; they considered not the difficulties of government , nor the impossibility of satisfying the ambitious desires of all pretenders ; they regarded not that god from whom their power was derived , nor the account they must give to him for their resistance of it : nothing but a full revenge upon the government can satisfie them , by leaving no means unattempted for its overthrow , though themselves be consumed by the fall of it . it were happy for government if these turbulent spirits could be singled out from the rest in their first attempts ; but that is the usual subtilty of such men , when they find themselves aimed at , they run into the common herd , and perswade the people that they are equally concerned with themfelves in the present danger , that though the pretence be only against faction and sedition , the design is the slavery and oppression of the people . this they manage at first by grave nods , and secret whispers , by deep sighs , and extatick motions , by far fetched discourses , and tragical stories , till they find the people capable of receiving their impressions , and then seem most unwilling to mention that which it was at first their design to discover . by such arts as these corah had prepared , as josephus tells us , almost the whole camp of israel for a popular tumult , so that they were like to have stoned moses before he was aware of it ; and it seems the faction had gained a mighty interest among the people , when although god so severely and remarkably punished the heads of it , yet the very next day all the congregation of the children of israel murmured against moses and aaron , saying , ye have killed the people of the lord. what a mark of gods people was sedition grown among them ! when these men were accounted saints in spight of heaven , and martyrs , though god himself destroyed them . they were men who were only sanctified by rebellion : and shewed no other fruits of their piety but disobedience to authority . but the danger had not been so great , how loud soever the complaints had been , if only the ruder multitude had been gained to the favour of corah and his party : for these wanted heads to manage them , and some countenance of authority to appear under ; and for this purpose they had drawn to their faction princes of the assembly , famous in the congregation , men of renown , i. e. members ofthe of the great council of the nation . whom moses was wont to call and advise with about the publick affairs of it ; such who sate in comitiis senatorum , as paul. fagius tells us , therefore said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 such as were called to the great assembly which sate in parliament at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation , which was the place where they met together . these were the heads of the tribes , and the captains of thousands , and the men of the greatest fame and authority among the people whom moses assembled together for advice and counsel , as often as he saw just occasion for it . and as far as i can find were distinct from the great sanhedrin , which seemed to be rather a constant court of judicature which sate to receive appeals from inferiour courts , and to determine such difficult causes which were reserved peculiarly for it , as about the apostasy of a whole tribe , the case of false prophets , and the like . but these men did far exceed the whole number of the sanhedrin ; and the heads of the tribes , and the elders of israel were summoned together upon any very weighty occasion , by moses both before and after the institution of the sanhedrin . and now since the faction had gained so great strength by the accession of so great a number of the most leading men among the people , we may expect they should soon declare their intentions , and publish the grounds of their entring into such a combination against moses . . which is the next thing to be spoken to ; viz. the colours and pretences under which these persons sought to justifie the proceedings of the faction . which were these two , . the asserting the rights and liberties of the people in opposition to the government of moses . . the freeing themselves from the encroachments upon their spiritual priviledges , which were made by the vsurpations of aaron and the priesthood . . the asserting the rights and liberties of the people in opposition to the government of moses . is it a small thing , say they , that thou hast brought us up out of a land that floweth with milk and honey , to kill us in the wilderness , except thou make thy self altogether a prince over us ? and before , their charge was , that moses and aaron took too much upon them , in lifting up themselves above the congregation of the lord. which josephus more at large explains , telling us that the great accusation of moses was , that out of his ambition and affectation of power , he had taken upon himself the government of the people without their consent , that he made use of his pretence of familiarity with god only for a politick end , that by this means he debarred the people of that liberty which god had given them , and no man ought to take from them , that they were all a free-born people , and equally the children of abraham , and therefore there was no reason they should depend upon the will of a single person , who by his politick arts had brought them to the greatest necessities , that he might rule them the better ; wherefore corah , as though he had been already president of a high-court of justice upon moses their king , determines , that it was necessary for the common-wealth , that such enemies to the publick interest should be discovered and punished ; lest if they be let alone in their usurpations of power , they declare themselves open enemies when it will be too late to oppose them . there were then two great principles among them by which they thought to defend themselves . . that liberty and a right to power is so inherent in the people , that it cannot be taken from them . . that in case of usurpation upon that liberty of the people , they may resume the exercise of power , by punishing those who are guilty of it . . that liberty , and a right to power , is inseparable from the people ; libertatis patrocinium suscipiunt , saith calvin , upon corah and his company ; and i believe they will be found to be the first assertors of this kind of liberty that ever were in the world . and happy had it been for us in this nation , if corah had never found any disciples in it . for what a blessed liberty was this which corah aimed at , viz. to change one excellent prince , as moses was , for tyrants , besides corah and the sons of reuben ? what just and equal liberty was it which moses did deprive them of ? it was only the liberty of destroying themselves , which all the power he had could hardly keep them from . could there be any greater liberty than delivering them out of the house of bondage ? and was not moses the great instrument in effecting it ? could there be greater liberty than for their whole nation to be preserved from all the designs of their enemies , to enjoy their own laws , and matters of justice to be duly administred among them ? and had they not all these under the government of moses ? what means then this out-cry for liberty ? is it that they would have had no government at all among them , but that every one might have done what he pleased himself ? this indeed were a desirable liberty , if a man could have it alone : but when every one thinks that he is but one , though he be free ; and every one else is as free as he , but though their freedom be equal to his , his power is not equal to theirs ; and therefore to bring things to a more just proportion , every one must part with some power for a great deal of security . if any man can imagine himself in such a state of confusion , which some improperly call a state of nature ; let him consider , whether the contentment he could take in his own liberty and power to defend himself , would ballance the fears he would have of the injury which others in the same state might be able to do him . not that i think meer fear made men at first enter into societies , for there is a natural inclination in mankind to it , and one of the greatest pleasures of humane life lyes in the enjoyment of it . but what other considerations incline men to , fear makes reasonable , though men part with some supposed liberty for the enjoyment of it . so that the utmost liberty is destroyed by the very nature of govermment , and nothing can be more unreasonable than for men to quarrel with government for that , which they cannot enjoy and the preservation of themselves together . which alone makes the desire of power reasonable , and if the preservation of our selves in our rights and properties may be had without it , all that the want of liberty signifies , is , that men have all the conveniences of power without the trouble and the cares of it . and if this be not a more desirable liberty than the other , let any rational man judge . the pretence of liberty then in this sense against government , is , that men are fools in taking the best care to preserve themselves , that laws are but instruments of slavery , and every single man is better able to defend himself , than the united strength of a people in society is to defend him . and this kind of liberty we may justly think will be desired by none but mad-men , and beasts of prey . it follows then , that what liberty is inconsistent with all government , must never be pleaded against any one sort of it . but is there then so great a degree of liberty in one mode of government more than another , that it should be thought reasonable to disturb government , meerly to alter the form of it ? would it have been so much better for the people of israel to have been governed by the men here mentioned , than by moses ? would not they have required the same subjection and obedience to themselves , though their commands had been much more unreasonable than his ? what security can there be that every one of these shall not be worse in all respects than him whom they were so wiling to lay aside ; and if one be thought troublesome , what liberty and ease is there when their name is legion ? so that the folly of these popular pretences is as great as the sin in being perswaded by them . and it may be they have not thought amiss who have attributed a great part of that disturbance of the peace of kingdoms , under a pretence of popular government , to an unjust admiration of those greek and roman writers , who have unreasonably set up liberty in opposition to monarchy . but some of the wisest of them have given us a truer account of these things , and have told us , that it was impossible the roman state could have been preserved longer , unless it had submitted to an imperial power ; for the popular heats and factions were so great , that the annual election of magistrates , was but another name for a tumult ; and as dio goes on , the name of popular government is far more plausible , but the benefits of monarchy are far greater ; it being much easier to find one good than many ; and though one be accounted difficult , the other is almost impossible . and as he elsewhere well observes , the flourishing of a common-wealth depends upon its poverty ; that being alone able to unite the minds of the governours , who in a plentiful state , not set about with enemies , will be grasping at their own private interests , and fall naturally from thence into divisions and animosities ; but the flourishing of the monarchy lyes in the riches of it , the prince and the people having the same interest , and being rich or poor together . so that we see the notion of liberty , and exercise of power in government , is so far from being an inseparable property of the people , that the proper notion of it is inconsistent with government and that which lyes in the enjoyments of our rights and properties , is so far from being inconsistent with monarchy , that they are more advanced by that , than by any other way of government . . another principle which tends to the subverting government under a pretence of liberty , is , that in case of usurpation upon the rights of the people , they may resume the exercise of power , and punish the supreme magistrate himself , if he be guilty of it . then which there can be no principle imagined more destructive to civil societies , and repugnant to the very nature of government . for it destroys all the obligations of oaths and compacts , it makes the solemnest bonds of obedience signifie nothing , when the people shall think fit to declare it : it makes every prosperous rebellion just ; for no doubt when the power is in the rebels hands , they will justifie themselves , and condemn their soveraign . ( and if corah , dathan and abiram had succeeded in their rebellion against moses , no doubt they would have been called the keepers of the liherties of israel . ) it makes all government dangerous to the persons in whom it is , considering the unavoidable infirmities of it , and the readiness of people to misconstrue the actions of their princes , and their incapacity to judge of them ; it not being fit that the reasons of all counsels of princes should be divulged by proclamations . so that there can be nothing wanting to make princes miserable , but that the people want power to make them so . and the supposition of this principle will unavoidably keep up a constant jealousie between the prince and his people : for if he knows their minds , he will think it reasonable to secure himself by all means against their power , and endeavour to keep them as unable to resist as may be : whereby all mutual confidence between a prince and his people will be destroyed : and there can be no such way to bring in an arbitrary government into a nation , as that which such men pretend , to be the only means to keep it out . besides , this must necessarily engage a nation in endless disputes about the forfeiture of power into whose hands it falls : whether into the people in common , or some persons particularly chosen by the people for that purpose : for in an established government according to their principles , the king himself is the true representative of the people ; others may be chosen for some particular purposes , as proposing laws , &c. but these cannot pretend by vertue of that choice , to have the full power of the people ; and withall , whatever they do against the consent of the people is unlawful ; and their power is forfeited by attempting it . but on the other side , what mighty danger can there be in supposing the persons of princes to be so sacred , that no sons of violence ought to come near to hurt them ? have not all the ancient kingdoms and empires of the world flourished under the supposition of an unaccountable power in princes ? that hath been thought by those who did not own a derivation of their power from god , but a just security to their persons , considering the hazards , and the care of government which they undergo ? have not the people who have been most jealous of their liberties , been fain to have recourse to an unaccountable power , as their last refuge in case of their greatest necessities ? i mean the romans in their dictators . and if it were thought not only reasonable , but necessary then , ought it not to be preserved inviolable , where the same laws do give it by which men have any right to challenge any power at all ? neither doth this give princes the liberty to do what they list ; for the laws by which they govern , do fence in the rights and properties of men ; and princes do find so great conveniency ease and security in their government by law , that the sense of that will keep them far better within the compass of laws , than the peoples holding a rod over them , which the best princes are like to suffer the most by , and bad will but grow desperate by it . good princes will never need such a curb , because their oaths and promises , their love and tenderness towards their people , the sense they have of a power infinitely greater than theirs , to which they must give an account of all their actions , will make them govern as the fathers of their countrey ; and bad princes will never value it , but will endeavour by all possible means to secure themselves against it . so that no inconveniency can be possibly so great on the supposition of this unaccountable power in soveraign princes , taking it in the general , and meerly on the account of reason , as the unavoidable mischiefs of that hypothesis , which places all power originally in the people , and notwithstanding all oaths and bonds whatsoever to obedience gives them the liberty to resume it when they please : which will alwaies be when that spirit of faction and sedition shall prevail among them , which ruled here in corah and his company . . another pretence for this rebellion of corah , was , the freeing themselves from the encroachments upon their spiritual priviledges which were made by the usurpations of aaron and the priesthood . this served for a very popular pretence , for they knew no reason that one tribe should engross so much of the wealth of the nation to themselves , and have nothing to do but to attend the service of god for it . what , say they , are not all the lords people holy ? why may not then all they offer up incense to the lord , as well as the sons of aaron ? how many publick uses might those revenues serve for , which are now to maintain aaron , and all the sons of levi ? but if there must be some to attend the service of god , why may not the meanest of the people serve for that purpose , those who can be serviceable for nothing else ? why must there be an order of priesthood distinct from that of levites ? why a high-priest above all the priests ? what is there in all their office which one of the common people may not do as well as they ? cannot they slay the sacrifices , and offer incense , and do all other parts of the priestly office ? so that at last they make all this to be a politick design of moses only to advance his own family by making his brother high-priest , and to have all the priests and levites at his devotion , to keep the people the better in awe . this hath alwaies been the quarrel at religion , by those who seldom pretend to it , but with a design to destroy it . for who would ever have minded the constant attendance at the temple , if no encouragements had been given to those who were imployed in it ? or is not religion apt enough to be despised of it self , by men of prophane minds , unless it be rendred more mean and contemptible by the poverty of those who are devoted to it ? shall not god be allowed the priviledge of every master of a family , to appoint the ranks and orders of his own servants , and to take care they be provided for , as becomes those who wait upon him ? what a dishonour had this been to the true god , when those who worshipped false gods thought nothing too great for those who were imployed in the service of them ? but never any yet cryed , but he that had a mind to betray his master , to what purpose is all this waste ? let god be honoured as he ought to be , let religion come in for its share among all the things which deserve encouragement , and those who are imployed in the offices of it , enjoy but what god , and reason , and the laws of their countrey give them , and then we shall see it was nothing , but the discontent and saction of corah and his company which made any encroachment of aaron and the priesthood any pretence for rebellion . but all these pretences would not serve to make them escape the severe hand of divine justice ; for in an extraordinary and remarkable manner he made them suffer the just desert of their sin , for they perished in their contradiction , which is the next thing to be considered , viz. . the judgement which was inflicted upon them for it . they had provoked heaven by their sin , and disturbed the earth by their faction ; and the earth , as if it were moved with indignation against them , trembled and shook , as josephus saith , like waves that are tossed with a mighty wind , and then with a horrid noise it rends asunder , and opens its mouth to swallow those in its bowels who were unfit to live upon the face of it . they had been dividing the people , and the earth to their amazement and ruine divides it self under their feet , as though it had been designed on purpose , that in their punishment themselves might feel , and others see the mischief of their sin . their seditious principles seemed to have infected the ground they stood upon ; the earth of a sudden proves as unquiet and troublesome as they ; but to rebuke their madness , it was only in obedience to him who made it the executioner of his wrath against them ; and when it had done its office , it is said , that the earth closed upon them ; and they perished from among the congregation . thus the earth haveing revenged it self against the disturbers of its peace , heaven presently appears with a flaming fire , taking vengeance upon the men , who in opposition to aaron , had usurped the priestly office , in offering incense before the lord. such a fire , if we believe the same historian , which far outwent the most dreadful eruptions of aetna or vesuvins , which neither the art of man , nor the power of the wind could raise , which neither the burning of woods nor cities could parallel ; but such a fire which the wrath of god alone could kindle , whose light could be outdone by nothing but the heat of it . thus heaven and earth agree in the punishment of such disturbers of government , and god by this remarkable judgement upon them hath left it upon record to all ages , that all the world may be convinced how displeasing to him the sin of saction and sedition is . for god , takes all this that was done against moses and aaron , as done against himself . for they are said to be gathered together against the lord , v. . to provoke the lord , v. . and the fire is said to come out from the lord : v. . and afterwards it is said of them ; this is that dathan and abiram , who strove against moses and against aaron in the company of corah , when they strove against the lord. by which we see god interprets striving against the authority appointed by him , to be a striving against himself . god looks upon himself as immediately concerned in the government of the world ; for by him princes raign , and they are his vicegerents upon earth ; and they who resist , resist not a meer appointment of the people , but an ordinance of god ; and they who do so shall in the mildest sense receive a severe punishment from him . let the pretences be never so popular , the persons never so great and famous ; nay , though they were of the great council of the nation , yet we see god doth not abate of his severity upon any of these considerations . this was the first formed sedition that we read of against moses , the people had been murmuring before , but they wanted heads to manage them : now all things concur to a most dangerous rebellion upon the most popular pretences of religion and liberty ; and now god takes the first opportunity of declaring his hatred of such actions ; that others might hear , and fear , and do no more so presumptuously . this hath been the usual method of divine judgements ; the first of the kind hath been most remarkably punished in this life , that by it they may see how hateful such things are to god ; but if men will venture upon them not withstanding , god doth not alwaies punish them so much in this world , ( though he sometimes doth ) but reserves them , without repentance , to his justice in the world to come . the first man that sinned was made an example of gods justice ; the first world ; the first publick attempt against heaven at babel after the plantation of the world again ; the first cities which were so generally corrupted after the flood ; the first breaker of the sabbath after the law ; the first offerers with strange fire ; the first lookers into the ark , and here the first popular rebellion and usurpers of the office of priesthood . god doth hereby intend to preserve the honour of his laws ; he gives men warning enough by one exemplary punishment , and if not withstanding that , they will commit the same sin , they may thank themselves if they suffer for it , if not in this life , yet in that to come . and that good effect this judgement had upon that people , that although the next day suffered for murmuring at the destruction of these men , yet we do not find that any rebellion was raised among them afterwards upon these popular pretences of religion , and the power of the people . while their judges continued ( who were kings , without the state and title of kings ) they were observed with reverence , and obeyed with diligence . when afterwards they desired a king , with all the pomp and grandeur which other nations had ( which samuel acquaints them with , viz , the officers and souldiers , the large revenues he must have ) though their king was disowned by god , yet the people held firm in their obedience to him , and david himself , though anointed to be king , persecuted by saul , and though he might have pleaded necessity and providence as much as any ever could , ( when saul was strangely delivered into his hands , ) yet we see what an opinion he had of the person of a bad king , the lord forbid that i should do this thing against my master the lords anointed , to stretch forth my hand against him , seeing he is the anointed of the lord. and lest we should think it was only his modesty or his policy which kept him from doing it , he afterwards , upon a like occasion declares , it was only the sin of doing it , which kept him from it . for who can stretch forth his hand against the lords anointed and be guiltless ? not as though david could not do it without the power of the sanhedrin , as it hath been pretended by the sons of corah in our age ; for he excepts none ; he never seizes upon him to carry him prisoner to be tryed by the sanhedrin , nor is there any foundation for any such power in the sanhedrin over the persons of their soveraigns . it neither being contained in the grounds of its institution , nor any precedent occurring in the whole story of the bible , which gives the least countenance to it : nay , several passages of scripture utterly overthrew it , for how could solomon have said , where the word of a king is , there is power ; and who may say unto him , what dost thou ? if by the constitution of their government , the sanhedrin might have controlled him in what he said or did . but have not several of the modern jews said so ? granting that some have ; yet so they have spoken many unreasonable and foolish things besides ; but yet none of these have said , that it was in the power of the sanhedrin to depose their kings , or put them to death ; all that they say is , that in the cases expressed by the law , if the kings do transgress , the sanhedrin had the power of inflicting the penalty of scourging , which yet they deny to have had any infamy in it among them . but did not david transgress the law in his murder and adultery ? did not solomon in the multitude of his wives & idolatry , yet where do we read that the sanhedrin ever took cognisance of these things ? and the more ancient jews do say , that the king was not to be judged , as is plain in the text of the misna , however the expositors have taken a liberty to contradict it ; but as far as we can find , without any foundation of reason : and r. jeremiah in nachmanides , saith expresly , that no creature may judge the king , but the holy and blessed god alone . but we have an authority far greater than his , viz. of davids in this case , who after he hath denied that any man can stretch forth his hand against the lords anointed , and be guiltless : in the very next words he submits the judgement of him only to god himself , saying , as the lord liveth , the lord shall smite him , or his day shall come to die , or he shall descend into battel and perish . he thought it sufficient to leave the judgement of those things to god , whose power over princes he knew was enough , if well considered by them , to keep them in awe . we have now dispatched the first consideration of the words of the text , as they relate to the fact of corah and his company . . we ought now to enquire , whether the christian doctrine hath made any alteration in these things ; or whether that gives any greater encouragement to faction and sedition than the law did , when it is masked under a pretence of zeal for religion and liberty . but it is so far from it , that what god then declared to be displeasing to him by such remarkable judgements , hath been now more fully manifested by frequent precepts , and vehement exhortations , by the most weighty arguments , and the constant practice of the first and the best of christians , and by the black character which is set upon those who under a pretence of christian liberty did despise dominion , and speak evil of dignities , and follow corah in his rebellion , however they may please themselves with greater light , than former ages had in this matter , they are said to be such for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever . it would take up too much time to examine the frivolous evasions , and ridiculous distinctions by which they would make the case of the primitive christians in not resisting authority , so much different from theirs who have not only done it , but in spight of christianity have pleaded for it . either they said they wanted strength , or courage , or the countenance of the senate , or did not understand their own liberty ; when all their obedience was only due to those precepts of the gospel , which make it so great a part of christianity to be subject to principalities and powers , and which the teachers of the gospel had particularly given them in charge to put the people in mind of . and happy had it been for us if this doctrine had been more sincerely preached , and duly practised in this nation ; for we should then never have seen those sad times , which we can now no otherwise think of , than of the devouring fire , and raging pestilence , i. e. of such dreadfull judgements which we have smarted so much by , that we heartily pray we may never feel them again : for then fears and jealousies began our miseries , and the curse so often denounced against meroz , fell upon the whole nation ; when the sons of corah managed their own ambitious designs against moses and aaron ( the king and the church ) under the same pretences of religion and liberty . and when the pretence of religion was broken into schisms , and liberty into oppression of the people , it pleased god out of his secret and unsearchable judgements to suffer the sons of violence to prevail against the lords anointed ; and then they would know no difference between his being conquered and guilty . they could find no way to justifie their former wickedness , but by adding more : the consciousness of their own guilt , and the fears of the punishment due to it , made them unquiet and thoughtfull ; as long as his life and presence did upbraid them with the one , and made them fearfull of the other . and when they found the greatness and constancy of his mind , the firmness of his piety , the zeal he had for the true interest of the people , would not suffer him to betray his trust for the saving of his life ; they charge him with their own guilt , and make him suffer because they had deserved to do it . and as if it had not been enough to have abused the names of religion and liberty before , they resolve to make the very name of justice to suffer together with their king : by calling that infamous company who condemned their soveraign , a high court of justice which trampled under foot the laws both of god and men . but lest the world should imagine they had any shame left in their sins , they make the people witnesses of his murther ; and pretend the power of the people for doing that , which they did detest and abhor . thus fell our royal martyr a sacrifice to the fury of unreasonable men ; who either were so blind as not to see his worth , or rather so bad as to hate him for it . and as god gave once to the people of the jews a king in his anger , being provoked to it by their sins , we have cause to say , that upon the same account he took away one of the best of kings from us in his wrath . but blessed be that god , who in the midst of judgement was pleased to remember mercy , in the miraculous preservation , and glorious restauration of our gracious soveraign ; let us have a care then of abusing the mercies of so great a deliverance to quite other ends than god intended it for , lest he be provoked to say to us , as he did of old to the jews , but if ye shall still do wickedly , ye shall be consumed , both ye and your king. and if we look on this as a dreadful judgement , let us endeavour to prevent it by a timely and sincere reformation of our lives , and by our hearty supplications to god that he would preserve the person of our soveraign from all the attempts of violence , that he would so direct his counsels , and prosper his affairs , that his government may be a long and publick blessing to these nations . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e mat. . . rom. . . a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . epiphan . haeres . . p. . ed. petav. b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . §. p. . c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . theodoret. haeret . f●b . l. ● . p. . d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . epiph. har . . §. . e 〈…〉 diabolo , qui nunquam omni●o quietus est , immo 〈…〉 advers . haeres . l. . c. . pet. . . mac. . . v. david ga●● . chronol . p. . ☜ v. , . v. . numb . . ● . num● . . ●● . joseph . antiq . jud. l. . c. . joseph . antiq . l. . c. . numb . v. ● . num. . . numb . . . v. . joseph . l. . , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . joseph . ant. l . c. . p. ● . di● rom. hist. l. . l. . 〈◊〉 . numb . . . v. ● . numb . . . rom . . ● 〈…〉 〈…〉 〈…〉 〈…〉 〈…〉 〈…〉 ●●●m . . jude v. . tit. . . sam. . . a sermon preached before the king at white-hall, march , / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached before the king at white-hall, march , / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed for henry mortlock ..., london : . 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t. -- matthew x, -- sermons. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached before the king at white-hall , march . / . by edward stillingfleet , d. d. dean of st. pauls , and chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . printed by his majesties command . london , printed for henry mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , and at the white hart in westminster hall. . matth . x. . be ye therefore wise as serpents , and harmless as doves . in the beginning of this chapter we read of one of the greatest and most improbable designs that ever was , viz. christ's sending out his twelve apostles to convert and to reform the world. for , although the occasion of their first mission , was to prepare the jewish nation for entertaining the doctrine of the messias , and therefore they are commanded to go to the lost sheep of the house of israel ; and as they went to preach ; saying , the kingdom of heaven is at hand ; yet our saviour in his following discourse mentions several things which cannot be applied to their first going abroad ; particularly , that which relates to their hard usage and bad entertainment from the world ; which we do not find they met with from the jews upon this general message , but rather the contrary : for which cause he bids them to provide nothing for themselves , foreseeing that in all places there would be some that would be ready to receive them kindly ; and when the seventy disciples were sent upon a like errand , they returned with joy , which such young beginners would hardly have done , if they had met with such sharp persecutions then , which christ here foretells his apostles should suffer for preaching the gospel . either therefore we must say that st. matthew puts things together by way of common place , as he seems to do the miracles and parables of our saviour , without pursuing the order of time , as s. luke doth , and so upon occasion of christs sending out his apostles sets down all that relates to their mission , although delivered at several times ; or else that christ himself did now at first acquaint them with all the difficulties that should attend their imployment in preaching the gospel to the world , and consequently thought it necessary to give them at once their full instructions for their discharge of so great a trust , and due behaviour under so hard a service . a trust indeed so great , a service so hard as to require the wisdom of an angel , and the innocency of adam in paradise ; so many were the difficulties , so powerful were the prejudices , so dangerous were the snares and temptations , which in all places did hinder the success of so great a work. we are apt to admire and applaud the mighty conquests which men do make over some small parts of the world , by the subtilty of their wit , or by the force of their arms , or by the vastness of their treasure ; but in all these cases , there is nothing wonderful ; for the causes being supposed , there is at least a great probability the event should follow : but for twelve inconsiderable persons , as to all outward circumstances , without craft , without arms , without money , to undertake the conquest of the world , by changing not only mens opinions as to religion , but which is far more uneasie , the hearts and lives of men ; seems at first appearance so unlikely a thing , that though none but very wise men could hope to manage it , yet none who were thought so would ever undertake it . yet no less than this was the work which christ sent abroad his twelve apostles upon ; and he tells them , very little to their comfort , what hardship they were like to meet with , to be betrayed by friends , persecuted by enemies and hated of all men for his names sake : yea so great would the rage and malice and cruelty of men be against them , that he saith in the beginning of this verse , behold i send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves . what! to be destroyed and devoured by them ? no , but to turn those very wolves into sheep . but what powerful charms must they use to secure themselves from present danger , and to work such mighty change ? no other than those which our saviour recommends in the words of the text , be ye therefore wise as serpents , and harmless as doves . not as though we were to search all the properties of serpents and doves to understand the meaning of these words , and to determine the truth or falshood of all the relations that are made concerning both of them ; but as solomon chose the ant for an example of diligence , so our saviour designing to joyn wisdom and innocency together proposes the serpent for one and the dove for the other ; to let his disciples understand that he allows them so much wisdom as is consistent with innocency , and perswades them to no more simplicity than is consistent with wisdom . for wisdom without innocency turns into craft and cunning ; and simplicity without wisdom is meer folly . but the great difficulty lyes in the joyning these two together . for as the world goes and is like to do , men will be apt to say , how can those be as wise as serpents , who must be as harmless as doves ? if all the world were agreed in the practice of innocency , and men did not fare the worse for it , it might pass for wisdom ; but when they have to deal with others who will use all the wisdom of the serpent , and are so far from being harmless as doves , that they will take all the advantages that mens innocency and simplicity gives them , it seems hard to reconcile these two together . to what purpose , may some say , are mens eyes bid to be open , when their hands are tyed up ? had they not better be without the serpents sagacity and quickness of sight , than espy their dangers , and not use the most likely means to prevent them ? what doth the simplicity of the dove signifie , but to make them a more easie quarry for the birds of prey ? simplicity , and innocency , and patience , which our saviour recommends under the phrase of being harmless as doves , are good lessons for another world , but what do they signifie in this , which is made up of nothing but artifice and fraud , and wherein the great art and business of life seems to be overreaching and deceiving one another ? those only seem to have the true subtilty of the serpent who can turn and wind themselves every way as makes most for their advantage ; who by their soft and easie motions , by their artificial glidings and insinuations get an interest great enough to mischief while they watch for an opportunity to do it . as the serpent beguiled eve through his subtilty , i. e. say the fathers by the familiarity and easiness of access which he had , playing as some fancy , about the neck and arms of eve in the state of innocency . those have the true subtilty of the serpent who creep into houses and understand the secrets of persons and families ; and so know how to address , and how to keep in awe : who seem as harmless as doves till they have a fair opportunity of instilling their poison , and do the greater mischief by being thought so innocent . who have the dangerous teeth and the double tongue , who can deny the truth without lying , and forswear themselves without perjury ; who would sanctifie the greatest villanies by their good intentions ; and when they are ravenous as wolves , and as cruel as vultures , would yet be thought as harmless as doves , or as innocent as a child new born . what now can simplicity and innocency , and meekness , and patience signifie against all this serpentine subtilty ? and if you take away from the serpent his artificial motion and his poison , you leave him weak and contemptible , ready to be trampled on by every passenger , having nothing to defend himself but his skin and eye sight . and if you do allow his most natural properties , the innocency of the dove is a very unequal match for him if they be opposed , and seem of so different natures that they can hardly be joyned together in the same subject . and yet notwithstanding all these objections , it was certainly the design of our saviour in these words , . to recommend the conjunction and union of these two to his disciples , being wise as serpents , and harmless as doves . . to do it chiefly upon this consideration , that this would be the best means to promote his religion against all the arts and designs of men , as well as the best security for themselves . and therefore in the prosecuting this subject i shall endeavour these two things , . to shew wherein the conjunction of these two doth consist . . that this is the best means to promote the christian religion against all the mischievous arts and devices of men . . wherein the conjunction of these two doth consist . it is no hard matter to tell men how they may be wise as serpents , viz. by foresight and caution , so as to discern and prevent unnecessary dangers ; not to run themselves foolishly and vainly upon needless troubles , nor to draw persecutions upon themselves , when they can decently and lawfully avoid them ; not to give advantages to their enemies by their weakness and indiscretion , nor a just occasion of offence to any ; but in all lawful things to endeavour to gain upon them , and by all acts of kindness and charity to recommend our religion to them . neither is it hard to tell wherein we must appear to be harmless as doves , viz. by simplicity and integrity of mind , by meekness and patience , by forgiving injuries , and bearing persecutions as becomes christians , by a holy , innocent , and unblameable conversation : but the difficulty still lyes in the conjunction and mixture of both these ; which as s. chrysostome observes , is the thing which christ especially aims at , so as to make one vertue arise from both of them ; as greg. nazianzen said of his father , that he neither suffered the wisdom of the serpent to degenerate into cunning , nor the innocency of the dove into indiscretion , but made up one compleat kind of vertue from the mixture of both together ; and that i suppose lyes in these things , ( . ) integrity of mind , ( . ) ingenuity , or fairness of behaviour ; ( . ) meekness and patience : and in the due practice of these consists that prudent simplicity which results from these two , being wise as serpents , and harmless as doves . which i shall make appear by shewing , that men cannot be harmless as doves without them ; and that they are so far from being inconsistent with being wise as serpents , that a great part of wisdom lyes in them . . integrity of mind ; which is opposed to falseness and hypocrisie ; and therefore s. paul joyns simplicity and godly sincerity together . we read of some in scripture who are said to have a double heart , as well as a double tongue : they are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith s. iames , men with two souls , one for god and another for the world ; or rather none at all for god , ( since he must have all or none ) but one to appearance and another in reality , having quite other thoughts , intentions and designs than they make the world believe . some tell us that the serpent hath no forked tongue , but through the quickness of its motion , and suddenness of its vibration it appears to be so ; men have but one heart and mind , but they may use such artificial motions and sudden turnings , as to appear to have more . but this is contrary to that integrity and simplicity which christ requires , and the scripture every where so much extols , as to place mens perfection and wisdom in it . noah was said to be a just man and perfect in his generations , because he maintained his integrity in a very corrupt and degenerate age. iob is said to be a man perfect and upright , one that feareth god and escheweth evil : and in another place of iob , the perfect and the wicked are opposed : he destroyeth the perfect and the wicked ; i. e. the good and the bad . mark the perfect man and behold the upright , saith the psalmist . the righteousness of the perfect shall direct his way , saith solomon ; but the wicked shall fall by his own wickedness ; and in the next words ; the righteousness of the upright shall deliver them , but transgressors shall be taken in their own naughtiness . and if solomons word may be taken , a mans integrity is his greatest wisdom ; for righteousness , saith he , keepeth him that is upright in the way ; but wickedness overthroweth the sinner . he that walketh uprightly , walketh surely ; but he that perverteth his wayes shall be known . and therefore he concludes that a man of understanding will walk uprightly . all this seems a strange paradox , and to come from such as are not versed in business , nor acquainted with affairs of the world , or from those who are resolved to maintain their hypothesis , though against the common sense of mankind , as the stoicks of old who made their wise man beautiful though never so deformed , rich though ready to starve for poverty , and a prince though sold for a slave ; just thus doth it seem to some men to talk of the consistency of wisdom and simplicity together , or to suppose those take the most prudent care of their own interest , who are tied up to the strict rules of downright honesty , and are resolved with iob to hold fast their integrity . but that there is nothing absurd or unreasonable in this supposition , nothing but what is true , and may be justified by the common sense and experience of mankind will appear by these considerations . . that is the truest wisdom of a man which doth most conduce to the happiness of life . for wisdom as it refers to action lies in the proposal of a right end , and the choice of the most proper means to attain it . which end doth not refer to any one part of a mans life , but to the whole as taken together . he therefore only deserves the name of a wise man , not that considers how to be rich and great when he is poor and mean , nor how to be well when he is sick , nor how to escape a present danger , nor how to compass a particular design ; but he that considers the whole course of his life together , and what is fit for him to make the end of it , and by what means he may best enjoy the happiness of it . i confess it is one great part of a wise man never to propose too much happiness to himself here ; for whoever doth so , is sure to find himself deceiv'd , and consequently is so much more miserable as he fails in his greatest expectations . but since god did not make men on purpose to be miserable , since there is a great difference as to mens conditions , since that difference depends very much on their own choice , there is a great deal of reason to place true wisdom in the choice of those things which tend most to the comfort and happiness of life . . that which gives a man the greatest satisfaction in what he doth , and either prevents or lessens or makes him more easily bear the troubles of life , doth the most conduce to the happiness of it . it was a bold saying of epicurus , that it is more d●sirable to be miserable by acting according to reason , than to be happy in going against it ; and i cannot tell how it can well agree with his notion of felicity : but it is a certain truth , that in the consideration of happiness , the satisfaction of a mans own mind doth weigh down all the external accidents of life . for , suppose a man to have riches and honours as great as ahoshuerus bestowed on his highest favourite haman ; yet by his sad instance we find that a small discontent when the mind suffers it to encrease and to spread its venom , doth so weaken the power of reason , disorder the passions , make a mans life so uneasie to him , as to precipitate him from the height of his fortune into the depth of ruine . but on the other side if we suppose a man to be always pleased with his condition , to enjoy an even and quiet mind in every state , being neither lifted up with prosperity , nor cast down with adversity , he is really happy in comparison with the other . it is a meer speculation to discourse of any compleat happiness in this world ; but that which doth either lessen the number , or abate the weight , or take off the malignity of the troubles of life , doth contribute very much to that degree of happiness which may be expected here . . the integrity and simplicity of a mans mind doth all this . ( . ) it gives the greatest satisfaction to a mans own mind . for although it be impossible for a man not to be liable to error and mistake , yet if he doth mistake with an innocent mind , he hath the comfort of his innocency when he thinks himself bound to correct his error . but if a man prevaricates with himself and acts against the sense of his own mind , though his conscience did not judge aright at that time , yet the goodness of the bare act with respect to the rule , will not prevent the sting that follows the want of inward integrity in doing it . the backslider in heart , saith solomon , shall be filled with his own ways , but a good man shall be satisfied from himself . the doing just and worthy and generous things without any finister ends and designs , leaves a most agreeable pleasure to the mind , like that of a constant health which is better felt than expressed . when a man applies his mind to the knowledge of his duty , and when he doth understand it , ( as it is not hard for an honest mind to do , for as the oracle answered the servant who desired to know how he might please his master , if you will seek it , you will be sure to find it , ) sets himself with a firm resolution to pursue it , though the rain falls , and the floods arise , and the winds blow on every side of him , yet he enjoys peace and quiet within , notwithstanding all the noise and blustering abroad ; and is sure to hold out after all , because he is founded upon a rock . but take one that endeavours to blind , or corrupt or master his conscience , to make it serve some mean end or design ; what uneasie reflections hath he upon himself , what perplexing thoughts , what tormenting fears , what suspicions and jealousies do disturb his imagination and rack his mind ? what art and pains doth such a one take to be believed honest and sincere ? and so much the more , because he doth not believe himself : he fears still he hath not given satisfaction enough , and by overdoing it , is the more suspected . it is a very unsatisfactory imployment that man hath who undertakes to perswade others of the truth of that which himself at the same time knows to be false ; for he is not convinced by his own arguments , and therefore despises those that are , and is afraid of those that seem to be ; either he thinks them fools for believing him , or that they only flatter and seem to believe when they do not ; and then he thinks his arts are understood and his credit lost , and fears while he goes about to impose upon others , they may do the same by him . so that unless he could see into the hearts of men , ( which would be no very comfortable sight to him ) all his craft and subtilty must leave him under perplexity and continual fear . but suppose that through over-officiousness he happens to take some false step , and so fall into the disfavour of those whom above all he desired to please ; how miserable is that mans condition when he finds himself forsaken of god , despised by men , and without any peace or contentment within ? ( . ) because integrity doth more become a man , and doth really promote his interest in the world. it is the saying of dio chrysostom an heathen orator , that simplicity and truth is a great and wise thing ; but cunning and deceit is foolish and mean ; for , saith he , observe the beasts , the more courage and spirit they have , the less art and subtilty they use ; but the more timorous and ignoble they are , the more false and d●ceitful . true wisdom and greatness of mind raises a man above the need of using little tricks and devices . sincerity and honesty carries one through many difficulties which all the arts he can invent would never help him through . for nothing doth a man more real mischief in the world than to be suspected for too much craft ; because every one stands upon his guard against him , and suspects plots and designs where there are none intended ; insomuch that though he speaks with all the sincerity that is possible , yet nothing he saith can be believed . and is this any part of true wisdom to lose reputation , upon which mens power and interest so much depends ? from hence the most artificial men have found it necessary to put on a guise of simplicity and plainness , and make greatest protestations of their honesty when they most lie in wait to deceive . if then the reputation of integrity be so necessary , the main point to be considered as to wisdom is this , whether such reputation can be sooner gained and longer held by meer pretending to simplicity , or by the practice of it ? he that only pretends to it , must act otherwise than he designs , and yet is concerned to make others believe he doth not : but in this he puts a force and constraint upon himself which is uneasie to any man , and he lets the vizard fall off sometimes when it is more observed than he thinks , and then his countenance is taken at the greatest disadvantage , and this is given out for the only true copy . and while he keeps it on ; it is a hard matter to deceive all eyes ; for it may be some by-standers have practised the same arts themselves , and they know the make and the fashion , and all the several strings which help to keep it from falling off : and when the suspicion grows strong , the laying aside the disguise will not be able to give satisfaction . but he that walketh uprigh 〈…〉 and worketh righteousness , and speaketh the truth in hi 〈…〉 t , as the psalmist describeth the practice of integrity , may possibly meet with such as will be ready to condemn him for hypocrisie at first ; but when they find he keeps to a certain rule , and pursues honest designs , without any great regard to the opinion which others entertain concerning him ; then all that know him cannot but esteem and value him ; his friends love him , and his enemies stand in awe of him . the path of the just , saith the wise man , is as the shining light which shineth more and more unto the perfect day . as the day begins with obscurity and a great mixture of darkness , till by quick and silent motions the light overcomes the mists and vapours of the night , and not only spreads its beams upon the tops of the mountains , but darts them into the deepest and most shady valleys : thus simplicity and integrity may at first appearing look dark and suspicious , till by degrees it breaks through the clouds of envy and detraction , and then shines with a greater glory . thus the christian simplicity was despised and reproached as folly and obstinacy , and many hard censures and sharp persecutions did men undergo for the sake of it for a long time , ( as the most durable kingdoms have had the sharpest pangs and been the longest in the birth : ) but at last persecuted and despised innocency prevailed over all the craft and power of the world. it was then the great glory of christians that their enemies could reproach them for nothing but their religion ; that they were in all other things honest and good men , only they were christians : and then true religion is most like to prevail in the world , when mens other vertues commend their religion , and not when zeal for their religion is their only vertue . when righteousness , and peace , and humility , and charity , and temperance , and patience , and a constant integrity make men enquire after a religion which produces such fruits as these are , then it will appear that apostles and preachers of religion are then wise as serpents as to the promoting the honour of their doctrine , when by the innocency and simplicity of their lives they are harmless as dove● . ( . ) but suppose that troubles and persecutions do arise , what becomes of the harmless doves then ; they are soon taken and easily destroyed , when those who are only wise as serpents may see many wayes to escape danger , which the innocent doves dare not follow them in ; what wisdom then can there be in so much simplicity as makes suffering unavoidable ? this is the hardest part of the case , but that which our saviour doth here suppose , when he saith , behold i send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves ; be ye therefore wise as serpents , &c. so that , if we cannot make out this to hold in respect of sufferings , we must yield this counsel or advice of christ to his disciples to be defective as to the main occasion of it . to this therefore i answer in these particulars ; . our saviour doth allow the wisdom of prevention as to all unnecessary dangers ; for otherwise he would never have bid his disciples be wise as serpents , but only be as quiet as sheep and as harmless as doves . god forbid that christian simplicity should be taken in so ill a sense as to hinder us from a just and necessary care of our own safety : and not only for the preservation of our selves but of our religion too . when we have liberty and opportunity to do it , it is being stupid as sheep , and careless as the ravens of their young ones , and not being only harmless as doves , to neglect the doing it . in such a case it is a violation of the duty we owe to god and to posterity , if we do not use all lawful endeavours for the preservation of our selves and our religion from all the attempts of wicked and unreasonable men . but in case storms do arise after all our care , christ doth not seem to forbid his disciples making use of a present shelter till the storm be blown over ; but when they persecute you in this city , flee to another and some say , the likeness to doves is recommended in regard that its safety lyes chiefly in the quickness of its flight . but our saviour neither imposes a necessity of suffering in all cases , nor allows a liberty of flying upon every apprehension of danger , but leaves this matter to be determined according to circumstances , as makes most for gods honour , and his churches good : i e. herein to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves ; by not exposing themselves to needless dangers when they may be avoided with a good conscience , nor declining any necessary duty for the sake of any trouble which may follow upon it . there were some in the primitive church who thought it unlawful in any case to avoid persecution , and tertullian pleads their cause with many plausible reasons ; saying , that persecution is designed on purpose for tryal by god himself ; that the allowance for flying was peculiar to the apostles case , not to avoid persecution , but for the more speedy propagation of the gospel ; and some of the christians were so far from flying that they ran upon persecution and seemed ambitious of martyrdom . s. chrysostom saith , it was one of the reasons julian gave why he would not openly persecute christianity ; because he knew the christians gloried in being martyrs ; and he would not humour them so much as to spread his nets to catch such silly doves , that never minded the danger they fell into . but the christian church never approved rash and indiscreet suffering , as much as it encouraged all christians to patience and courage and perseverance ; for they required not only a just cause , but a necessary occasion of suffering , and blamed those who hastned their own destruction ; for they observe that christ himself made use of prudent caution when he knew the jews had designed to put him to death ; for it is said , from thence forward he walked no more publickly among the iews . when the storm seemed to threaten the leaders of the church in such a manner that by their withdrawing the people might probably enjoy more quiet , and not want help enough to perform the necessary offices , even the bishops were allowed to retire ; and upon this ground s. cyprian and athanasius justified themselves : but when the case is common , when the necessities of the church require the presence of their pastours , then the good shepherd must lay down his life for the sheep , as s. augustin hath resolved this case in his epistle to honoratus . so that this whole matter belongs to christian prudence , which is then most needful and fit to be used , when the resolution of the case depends upon particular circumstances ; so as not to shun any necessary duty for fear of danger , nor to run upon any unnecessary trouble to shew our courage . . since no wisdom is great enough to prevent all troubles of life , that is the greatest which makes them most easie to be endured . if the wisdom of the serpent could extend so far as to avoid all the calamities that mankind is subject to , it would have a mighty advantage over the simplicity of the dove ; but since the most subtle contrivers cannot escape the common accidents of life , but do frequently meet with more vexations and crosses than innocent and undesigning men do , we are then to consider , since the burden must be born , what will make it sit most easily upon our shoulders : and that which abates of the weight , or adds to our strength , or supports us with the best hopes , is the truest wisdom . and who is he that will harm you , saith s. peter , if ye be followers of that which is good ? i. e. innocency is the best security against trouble which one can have in this world ; but since the world is so bad as that the best may suffer in it , and for being such , yet that ought not to trouble or affright them ; but and if ye suffer for righteousness sake , happy are ye ; and be not afraid of their terrour , neither be troubled . but should it not trouble a man to suffer innocently ? yes , with a respect to others , but as to himself he may more justly be troubled if he suffered justly . for nothing makes sufferings so heavy to be born as a guilty conscience : that is a burden more insupportable to an awakened mind than any outward affliction whatsoever . iudas thought himself to be wise as a serpent , not only in escaping the danger which he saw christ and his disciples falling into by the combination of the priests and scribes and pharisees against them ; but in ingratiating himself with them and making a good bargain for his own advantage : but the want of a dove-like innocency marred his whole design ; and filled his conscience with such horrour as to make him own his guilt , and put an end to his miserable life . whereas the other apostles whose chief care was to preserve their innocency as to any wilful sins , though they had too much of the fearfulness as well as the simplicity of doves , till the descent of the holy ghost upon them ; yet they held out in the midst of fears and dangers , and came at last to rejoyce in their sufferings . and s. paul tells us what the cause of it was , for our rejoycing is this , the testimony of our conscience , that in simplicity , and godly sincerity , not with fleshly wisdom , but by the grace of god , we have had our conversation in the world . see here , not only what peace and serenity , but what rejoycing follows an innocent mind , and the testimony of a good conscience ! when all the arts of fleshly wisdom will be found vain and useless , affording no satisfaction to a mans mind , when he looks back upon all of them , then sincerity and integrity of heart will give a man the most comfortable reflections , and fill him with the most joyful expectations . this enables a man to look back without horrour , to look about him without shame , to look within without confusion , and to look forward without despondency . so that as the streight line is the shortest of any ; so upon greatest consideration it will be found that the upright and sincere man takes the nearest way to his own happiness . ii. prudent simplicity implies the practice of ingenuity ; which is such a natural freedom in our words and actions , that men may thereby understand the sincerity of our mind and intention . not that men are bound to declare all they know to every impertinent enquirer , which is simplicity without prudence ; but in all cases wherein men ought to declare their minds , to do it without fraud and dissimulation ; and in no case to design to overreach and deceive others . this is that simplicity of conversation which our saviour requires when he saith , let your communication be yea , yea , nay , nay , i. e. you ought to converse with so much sincerity , that your bare affirmation or denial may be sufficient , this being the proper use of speech that men may understand each others minds by their words : for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil , i. e. the wickedness of mankind and that distrust and suspicion which is occasioned by it , is the reason they are ever put to make use of oaths to make their testimony appear more credible . and therefore nothing but such necessity can justifie the use of them ; oaths and wars being never lawful but when they are necessary . some understand the reduplication of those words , yea , yea , nay , nay , after a more emphatical manner ; viz. that our words must not only agree with the truth of the thing , but with the conception and sense of our minds ; and so the greatest candour and sincerity is commanded by them . truth was described of old , sitting upon an adamant , with garments white as snow , and a light in her hand , to intimate that clearness and simplicity and firmness that doth accompany it ; such as was most remarkable in the primitive christians ; who abhorred any thing that looked like dissimulation and hypocrisie , especially in what concerned their religion . in this they were plain and open , hearty and sincere , neither exasperating their enemies by needless provocations , nor using any artificial ways of compliance for their own security when the casting some few grains of incense on the altar , and pouring out wine before the emperors statue might have saved their lives , they chose rather to dye than to defile their consciences with that impure and idolatrous worship . to be dismissed after summons to the tribunal without compliance was a scandal , and raised suspicions of some secret assurances given ; to be proclaimed to have sacrificed though they had not , and not to contradict it was great infamy ; to procure a certificate of sacrificing though they did not ; or to pay fees to the officers to be excused from doing it , made them a sort of libellati , although their names were never entred in the heathen rolls , and they were forced to undergo severe penance before they were restored to the communion of the church . so much simplicity and singleness of heart was then supposed necessary to the christian profession . no directing the intention , no secret reservation , no absolution either before committing the fact or immediately upon confession of it , were ever heard of or allowed in those days of christian innocency and simplicity . if the heathen officers sought after christians , they neither lied to them , nor betrayed their brethren ; but would rather endure torments themselves , than expose others to them ; for which reason s. augustin highly commends the resolution of firmus an african bishop , who rather chose to be tortured himself than discover a christian committed to his care , who was sought after for no other reason , but because he was a christian ; and the heathen emperour himself was so pleased with it , that for his sake he forgave the other person and suffered him to enjoy his liberty . when the christians were summoned before the heathen tribunals , they used no shifting tricks or evasions , they concealed no part in their minds of what was necessary to make what they spake to be true ; they did not first peremptorily deny what they knew to be true , and then back such a denial with horrid oaths and dreadful imprecations upon themselves , and after all think to justifie the doing so by vertue of some secret reservation in their own minds . is this becoming the simplicity and ingenuity of christians ? such may possibly think themselves wise as serpents in so doing , but i am sure they are far from being innocent as doves . but are there any who go under the name of christians , who own and defend such practices ? i think indeed scarce any who went under the name of honest heathens ever did it . for they did not only require constancy and fidelity in oaths and promises , but simplicity an● sincerity both in the making and keeping 〈◊〉 them . they condemned the romans wh 〈…〉 t to avoid their oath by a trick , and 〈…〉 ck to the carthaginians : they mig 〈…〉 e constancy of regulus in observing the words of his oath as to his return , although very capable of a mental reservation ; and if he did not promise the carthaginians to perswade the roman senate to the peace , he behaved himself with great sincerity as well as constancy . when the king of persia thought by a trick to avoid the oath he had made to one of his neighbour princes , viz. that he would not pass such a stone which was set up as a boundary between them , and he took up the stone and caused it to be carried before his army ; his counsellours told him they feared such deceit would never prosper with him , because as the prince sent him word , covenants are to be understood according to the plain meaning of the words , and not according to any secret reservation . since then the very heathens disallowed such artifices and frauds , are there any worse than heathens that justifie and maintain them ? is not this rather an artifice and fraud of their adversaries to render them odious ? but even in this respect we ought to be harmless as doves , and therein lies a necessary part of christian ingenuity , in not charging on others more than they are guilty of . i shall therefore fairly represent the doctrine held in the church of rome about these matters , and leave you to judge how far it is consistent with christian simplicity . there are some things wherein the divines of the roman church are agreed , and some things wherein they differ . the things wherein they are agreed are these . . that an officious lie is but a venial sin . this they do not stick to declare to be the common opinion of all their divines . ex communi-omnium sententiâ , saith azorius , a lie that hurts no-body , but is intended for the good of others is no mortal sin ; and herein all are agreed , saith reginaldus ; because say they , where there is no other fault but the meer falsity , it is not of its own nature and kind any mortal sin ; for a lye of it self is a harmless thing , or at least , saith lessius , the hurt is not great that it doth , and it is no great matter whether men be deceived or not , if they do not suffer much by it ; and from hence he concludes it to be venial in its own nature . it is true , they say an officious lie may become a mortal sin by accident , when it is confirmed by an oath , when it is too publick and scandalous and used by those from whom the people expects truth , as bishops and preachers and religious men , saith sayr . not even in them , saith navarr , unless the scandal be great , or their consciences tell them they are mortal sins ; or some other circumstances make it so . if it be in matter of judicature ; although the thing be small , yet i think a lie a mortal sin , saith cajetan , because men are then bound to speak truth . that reason is of no force at all , say soto and navarr , for that circumstance alone doth not alter the nature of the sin . so that if a man tells never so many lyes , provided he intend to hurt no body by them , they do not make one mortal sin . for that is a fixed rule among the casicists , that an infinite number of venial sins do not amount to one mortal ; and consequently though they have obliquity in them , yet they do not put a man out of the favour of god. but upon these principles what security have men to invent and spread abroad lyes , provided they are intended for a good end in their own opinion ? what sincerity is to be expected , when the confessing a truth may do them injury ; and the telling a lye may do them good ? for even cajetan himself makes that only a pernicious lye , when a man designs to do mischief by it . they cry out upon it as a great scandal for any of us to say , they think it lawful to lye for the catholick cause ; and in truth they do not say so in words ; for they still say , a lye is unlawful for any end whatsoever ; but here lyes the subtilty of it ; they grant it in general to be a fault , but such a venial , such an inconsiderable fault , if it be for a good end ; and they have so many wayes to expiate the guilt of venial sins ; that the difference is very little as to the practice of it , from making it no sin at all . and some think they had better own downright lying , than make use of such absurd wayes of evading it by mental reservations ; by which men may be truly said to affirm that which they do deny , and to deny that which they do affirm . but notwithstanding this , . they are agreed , that in some cases , th●… which otherwise would be a lye , is none by 〈◊〉 help of a mental reservation . let us not therefore do the iesuites so much injury to charge that upon them as their peculiar doctrine , which is common to all their divines and casuists . and herein f. parsons was in the right , when he asserted , that the doctrine of equivocation and mental reservation hath been received in the roman church for , four hundred years : only some have extended the practice of it farther than others have done . but in the case of confession they all agree without exception , saith the same author , that if a man hath confessed a thing to a priest , he may deny and swear that he never confessed it , without being guilty either of a lye or perjury ; reserving this in his mind , that he hath not confessed it so as to utter it to another . and i find the greatest enemies to the use of mental reservation in other cases , do allow it in this ; and do not barely allow it , but think a man bound in conscience to use it , under grievous sin , saith parsons , when by no other means of silence , diversion , or evasion the said secresie can be concealed . i do not now meddle with the inviolableness of the seal of confession , which i do not deny a great regard ought to be had to , ( where an obligation greater than that of keeping a secret doth not take it off , as where the life of my prince or the publick safety are concerned ) not from any divine institution , but from the baseness of betraying a trust : but i wonder how they came to think it to be no lye or perjury in this case , and yet to be so in any other ? it is to no purpose to alledge other reasons peculiar to this ase , for the single question is , whether what a man keeps in his mind , can keep him from being guilty of a lye , or of perjury in his words ? if it cannot , then not in the case of confession ; if it may , then a mental reservation will equally do it in any other case . and consequently no man who doth allow it in this case , can on that account disallow it in any other . this navarr very well saw , and therefore from the allowance of it in this case of confession he de duces the lawfulness of the use of it in all cases wherein a man is not bound to speak all he knows . the common answer in this case is , that in confession the priest doth not know as man but as god ; and therefore when he is asked any thing as a man he may deny what he knows as god. but navarr at large shews the folly and absurdity of this answer , because this doth not salve the contradiction , for to say he doth not know is as much as to say he doth not any way know it ; which is false if he doth know it in any capacity : and it is false that he doth not know it as man , because he knows it as a priest , and as such he is not god but man. and the very seal of confession discovers that it is made known to him as a man , and with the consent of the penitent a priest may reveal what he heard in confession ; and in other cases he may make use of that knowledge as a man , without particular discoverie . i do not therefore wonder to see the stout and plain-hearted defenders of the lawfulness of this practice in other cases , to express so much astonishment at the nicety and scrupulosity of those , who dispute against it as so dangerous and pernicious a thing upon other occasions , when they think it so pious and innocent in this . for , say they , if it be a lie to deny what a man knows , it is not in the power of the church or of god himself for any end whatsoever to make it lawful for a priest to deny what he knows . and if it be not a lie in that case , neither is it in any other . but although none in the roman church are able to answer that argument , yet i must do some of them that justice , as to clear them from the owning the allowance of this practice in other common cases upon the same ground . yet i fear upon strict enquiry we shall find that those do equivocate more who seem to deny it , than those who openly assert it . for , although two persons of the roman church seem wholly to reject it , except in the case of confession ; yet the a one of them is charged with † singularity and suspicion of here sie , and the b other with little less than heresie and apostasie ; and their proceedings with him shew what esteem they had of him . c but most of their other divines and casuists do approve it in case of testimony and accusation . soto doth allow a witness being examined about a secret crime to say , he doth not know any thing of it , although he were privy to it : and for this he quotes some divines of great authority before him ; as he might have done many others : but he will not allow him to say he did not see the fact committed , nor that he heard nothing of it , because , saith he , words of knowledge seem to be restrained by judicial proceedings to that which a man is bound to declare . but this ●ubtilty the latter casuists will by no means admit of , and allow denying the fact in any words ; and say of him , that he was afraid where no fear was . they therefore say , it is enough that a witness answers to what ought to have been the intention of the iudge , whatever his actual intention was ; and therefore if a man supposes the judge not to proceed legally against him , he may not only deny the fact he knows , but swear to that denial , provided he keeps this in his mind that he denied any such fact which belonged to the iudges conusance ; or that he did not do it publickly , * and in this case , say they , there is neither lie , nor per jury . others say , no more is necessary to avoid a lie , or perjury in such cases , but only to understand the word of denial with this restriction so as to be bound to tell you . and this is the common case which parsons and others speak of . if a man be examined upon oath whether he be a priest or not , they say , he may with a safe conscience deny it with that poor reservation in his mind ; and that is a known rule in this case among them that what a man may truly say , he may truly swear . so that a priest may not only say , but swear he is none , and yet by this admirable art neither tell a lie , nor forswear himself . some of later times being made sensible of the pernicious consequences of the imputation of such doctrines and practices to their church have endeavoured to qualifie and restrain the abuse of them . but upon due examination we shall find this to be only a greater art to avoid the odium of these things and a design to deceive us with the greater fineness . for they allow the same words to be said either in oaths or testimonies , i. e. a plain denial of what they know to be true , but only differ from the other as to the way of excusing such a denial from being a lie : which say they , depends on the circumstances of denying , and not upon the reservation of the mind . so malderus himself grants , that a guilty person being examined upon a capital offence , may deny the fact with this reservation , so as to be bound to tell it ; but then he saith , the circumstances give that sense and not the reservation in his mind . but saith emonerius ( or rather a famous iesuite under that name ) these circumstances only limit the words to such a sense which they cannot otherwise bear , because in such circumstances a man is not bound to declare what he knows , therefore , saith he , whereever there is a reasonable cause of concealing what a man knows , such mental reservations are to be understood , and so there is the same liberty allowed in practice . among the late casuists none hath seemed to have written with more pomp and vanity against mental restrictions than caramuel ; yet he not only allows a confessour to deny upon oath what he heard in confession ; but in case of secret murder that a man may with a good conscience deny the fact , though the judge be competent and proceed according to due form of law. what way can this be excused from a lye , since he saith , a mental reservation will not do it ? he hath a fetch beyond this . a iudge is only to proceed upon evidence ; if there be no sufficient evidence against him , he may persist in denying it , because it cannot be fully proved , and therefore his denyal , saith he , is of such a fact which he can proceed upon , and what cannot be proved is none in law. these are the shifts of those who seem most to oppose the iesuitical art of equivocation ; and inveigh bitterly against it , as a thing wholly repugnant to the truth of our words and the sincerity of our minds , and that candour and simplicity which ought to be in christians . but in my apprehension they had altogether as good take up with the dull way of lying , or with the common artifice of equivocation and mental reservation , as make use of such refinings as these . but however , we gain this considerable advantage by them , that they do assure us , that mental reservations are so far from excusing the words spoken from being a lye , that they contain a premeditated lye ; and so the sin is the more aggravated by them ; that all such propositions are in themselves false , and designed only to deceive others , and so all the effect and consequence of lying follow them ; that there is nothing so false but may be made true , nothing so true but may be made false by this means . caramuel gives a remarkable instance of this kind in some of the articles of the creed ; for by this way of mental reservation a man might truly say , christ was not born , understanding it secretly , at constantinople . he did not suffer , viz. at paris . he was not buried , viz. in persia. he did not rise again , viz. in japan . nor ascended into heaven , viz. from america : so that by this blessed art , the most abominable heresies may be true doctrine ; and the most cursed lyes prove precious truths . besides , they confess that it takes away all confidence in mens words , and destroys all sincerity of conversation , and the very inclination to speak truth : for as malderus well observes , there is no reason men should not have the same liberty in private conversation which is allowed them before an incompetent iudge : and some iesuites themselves grant , that if the common use of it be allowed , there can be no security as to mens words , there being nothing so false but it may be made true in this way . and no man can be charged with a lye till they know his heart ; nor the devil himself in all his lying oracles ; who surely had wit enough to make some secret reservation ; and a very little will serve for that according to suarez , who saith , it is enough in the general , that a man intend to affirm or deny in some true sense ; although he know not what . since from their own authors , we thus far understand the mischievous consequence of these practices , it will not be amiss to set down briefly the cases , wherein they are commonly allowed . . in general , whereever there is a just and reasonable cause for concealing of truth . for that is the most general rule they give in this case ; where a man is not bound to speak his whole mind , he may utter one half , and reserve the other half of one entire proposition . now a just and reasonable cause with them is declining of danger , or obtaining any advantage to themselves either as to body , honour , or estate . in all such cases , they allow that a man may speak what is simply false and swear to it too , provided that he hold something in his mind which makes it true . but if a man happen to do it without just cause , what then ? doth he lye ? doth he forswear himself ? by no means . but he is guilty of indiscretion : and is that all ? then they tell him for his comfort , that an oath that wants only discretion is no mortal sin . . if a man be barred the use of equivocation , or mental reservation , that doth not hinder the using it , even in renouncing equivocation . even soto himself saith , that if a magistrate requires from a person to speak simply all he knows of such a matter ; i. e. without any reservation ; a man may still answer he knows nothing of it ; i. e. with this reservation , to tell him . but what if in particular , saith he , he asks about a secret murder ; whether peter killed john , which he alone saw , doth it not seem to be a lye for him to say , he knows nothing of it ? no , saith he ; for still the meaning is , so as he is bound to tell . f. parson speaks home to this point ; suppose , saith he , a iudge asks a man whether he doth equivocate or not ? he may answer , not , but with another equivocation . but if he still suspects he equivocates , what then is to be done ? he may deny it with another equivocation ; and so , toties quoties , as often as he asks , the other may deny and still with a farther equivocation . suppose a priest , saith iacob . à graffiis , be asked a thing he heard in confession , may he deny that he knew it ? yes , saith he , and swear it too ; because he knew it not as man. but suppose he be asked whether he knew it not as man , but as god ? he may deny it still , with another equivocation , i. e. not as god himself , but as his minister . what if a iudge , saith bonacina , be so unreasonable to bar all equivocation ? yet the respondent may equivocate still . and he cites several others of theirs who defended this practice ; and therefore barns saith , it is so slippery a thing , that the faster you think to hold it , the sooner it gets from you . . if a man be charged with a secret crime , which cannot be sufficiently proved by testimonies beyond all exception , he may safely deny it , though he were guilty of it . if a man , saith lessius , can make any exception against the witnesses , or shew that it was a report spread abroad by men , that bore ill will to him , or that there was some mistake in it , he is not bound to confess the truth , and consequently he may deny it with a reservation . nay , as long as the thing is so secret , that a man may probably defend himself , and hope to escape , he may persist in denying the fact ; although the iudge do proceed according to due form of law , saith the same lessius . it is no mortal sin to deny it , saith filliucius . not , though others be like to suffer for it , saith em. sà ; especially if the punishment be capital , saith filliucius and others in him . but if a man doth suspect whether the judge doth proceed according to due form of law , which depends upon his opinion of the proofs and witnesses brought against him , they make no question then , but he may deny the fact by help of an easie reservation in his mind . . if a man hath denyed the fact when he was bound to confess it in court , according to their rules , yet they will not allow that he is bound to confess it before execution . because saith navarr , confession to a priest and absolution by him is sufficient for salvation . his confessour ought not to put him upon it , saith diana . not unless it be clearer than noon-day that the law compels them to it , say others ; i. e. that they have no kind of exceptions again the judicial proceedings . some thought they ought then to do it for the reputation of the judges who otherwise might suffer in the esteem of the people as condemning innocent persons ; but this is over-ruled by the generality of the later casuists , because the presumption is alwayes on the side of the judges , when they proceed according to law. but one of the latest casuists hath given an excellent reason against * publick confession , because they are accounted cowards and fools that make it . . where the judge is supposed incompetent , they make no question of the use of equivocation and mental reservation in denying the crimes they are guilty of . an incompetent iudge is one that wants lawful jurisdiction over the person ; as if a lay-man pretend to judge one in orders according to their doctrine of exemption ; or if a heretick or excommunicated person take upon him to judge good catholicks . and thus they look on all our iudges as incompetent ; of which , besides the general charge of heresie , we have this particular evidence . when the unquietness of the iesuites gave just occasion to those severe laws which were made after the bull of pius . several cases were proposed at rome for resolution in order to the better conduct of their affairs here ; and among the rest this , suppose an oath be required in an heretical court before incompetent iudges ( quales sunt omnes nunc in anglia , as all are now in england ) how far doth such an oath bind ? the answer is , no farther than the person that swears did intend it should : and he may either refuse the oath , or he may sophisticè ju● are & sophisticè respondre : he may swear and answer with juggling and equivocation : and he that discovers any by vertue of his oath commits a double sin . and in the answers approved by pius . our iudges are declared incompetent ; and our courts of iudicature unlawful courts ; and therefore no man by his oath is bound to conf●ss any thing to the prejudice of the catholick cause ; nor to answer according to the intention of the iudge , but in some true sense of his own . so that we not only see the doctrine and practice of equivocation approved by the holy sec , but all legal authority among us utterly rejected as having no jurisdiction over them . and all who allow this practice do thereby discover that what they call heresie doth take away the civil rights and properties of men . for if heresie makes out iudges incompetent , by necessary consequence it must deprive the king of the right to his throne , it must take away all the obligation of our laws , and the title every man hath to his estate . such pernicious consequences do follow the wisdom of the serpent , where it is not joyned with the innocence and simplicity of the dove : and not only pernicious to government , but to themselves too when these arts are understood and discovered ; for what security can there be from the most solemn oaths , the most deep and serious protestations of those persons who at the same time believe that none of these things do bind them , but by some secret reserve they may turn the sense quite another way than we imagined , and when they pretend the greatest simplicity and seem to renounce all equivocation , may then equivocate the most of all ? if men had invented ways to fill the world with perpetual jealousies and suspicions of their practices and intentions , they could never have thought of any more effectual than these two , that heresie , or differing in opinion from them , deprives them of their civil rights , and that they may deny what is true , and swear to what is false , and promise what they never mean to perform by vertue of some secret reservation in their minds . how can they live as fellow-subjects with others who do not own the same authority , the same laws , the same magistrates , who look on all hereticks in a state of usurpation , and all judicial proceedings against them as meer force and violence , and parallel the case of answering in our courts with that of oaths and promises to thieves and robbers ? for upon these grounds all the bonds of society are dissolved where what they call heresie prevails ; and no obligation can lie upon them by vertue of any laws , or oaths , or promises . i do not say that particular persons may not , upon common principles of honesty , make conscience of these things : but i speak of what follows from these allowed principles and practices among them , and what may be justly expected by vertue of them . how can we be sure that any man means what he saith , when he holds it lawful to reserve a meaning quite different from his words ? what can oaths signifie to the satisfaction of others ; when it is impossible to understand in what sense they swear ? and when they pretend the greatest simplicity in renouncing all arts , may then by allowance of their casuists use them the most of all ? but can men upon sober reflections think it any part of true wisdom to lose all the force of their oaths and promises with those among whom they live ? will they never stand in need of being believed or trusted ? and then , if they desire it never so much , how can they recover any credit with out plain disowning all such principles , and in such a way if such can be found out , which is uncapable of any mental reservation . such kind of artifices can only serve for a time , but when once they are throughly understood , they fall heavily upon those that use them . for although frost and fraud may hold for a while , yet according to the true saying , they both have dirty ends . the summ of what i have to say is this , that however simplicity and sincerity of conversation may in some particular circumstances expose men to greater danger and difficulties than fraud and deceit may do ; yet upon the whole matter considering the consequences of both , it will be found much greater wisdom always to preserve the innocency of the dove , than to use the greatest subtilty of the serpent without it . which although it may seem to take off from the fineness of the serpents wisdom , yet it adds very much to the safety and soundness of it . iii. prudent simplicity lies in the practice of meekness and patience . the serpent doth not imploy its subtilty only in defending it self and avoiding dangers , but in watching its opportunity to do mischief , * being both revengeful and insidious : therefore we read of the adder in the path that lies undiscerned in the sands , that biteth the horse-heels so that the rider shall fall backward . it doth mischief secretly , spitefully and artificially , by fit means and instruments . but christ would have his disciples to be wise to that which is good , but simple or harmless concerning evil ; so s. paul explains these words of our saviour , be ye wise as serpents and harmless as doves . which although they want no gall , yet do not shew that they have any , whatsoever usage they meet with . christ foretels his disciples the injuries and reproaches they were like to suffer under , that their condition was like to be no better than that of sheep in the midst of wolves ; notwithstanding he would not suffer them to be furious as wild beasts , or cruel and rapacious as the birds of prey ; but in gentleness and meekness and patience to be as harmless as doves . not , as though christianity did forbid men the just and lawful ways of preserving themselves , but it takes away all malice and hatred and revenge and cruelty out of mens minds ; it softens and sweetens and calms the tempers of men , and fills them with kindness and good will even to their enemies , not being overcome with evil , but overcoming evil with good. never any religion in the world was such an enemy to all kind of malice , revenge and cruelty as the christian ; that which we call good nature seems to come very near that divine grace which s. paul calls charity , and doth so admirably describe and so highly extol above miraculous gifts and some of the greatest graces . charity suffereth long and is kind ; charity envieth not ; charity vaunteth not it self ; is not puffed up ; doth not behave it self unseemly ; seeketh not her own ; is not easily provoked ; thinketh no evil ; rejoyceth not in iniquity but rejoyceth in the truth ; beareth all things , believeth all things : hopeth all things , endureth all things , i. e. in short , it hopes , believes , and does the greatest good ; it modestly bears and heartily forgives the greatest evil . and herein consists that dove-like temper , which christ would have his disciples remarkable for . which however it may be despised and scorned by furious and self-willed men , yet upon consideration it will be found a great part of the wisdom of living . revenge is the pleasure only of weak and disorderly minds : for what real satisfaction can anothers loss or pain give to any considering man ? the only pretence or colour for it is the preventing more mischief coming on ones self ; and yet every act of revenge is a fresh provocation ; so that either quarrels must continue without end , or some body must think it their wisdom to forgive at last . and if so , i appeal to any mans understanding whether it were not greater wisdom to have prevented at first all the vexation and disquiet , besides other inconveniences , which must needs follow a continued quarrel . if any thing tend to make a mans life easie and pleasant to himself and others , it is innocency and gentleness , and patience , and doing good and vertuous things , whatever the world thinks of them . and this was it which recommended the christian religion to the world , that its great business and design was , to perswade the disobedient to the wisdom of the just ; by laying aside all malice , and all guile , and bypocrisies , and all evil speakings ; not rendering evil for evil , or railing for railing ; and if when they did will they suffered for it , by taking it patiently ; following therein the example of christ himself , who did no sin neither was guile found in his mouth ; who when he was reviled , reviled not again ; when he suffered , he threatned not , but committed himself to him that judged righteously . these are the instructions of s. peter , to the primitive christians , and the ways he judged most effectual to promote the honour of their religion , among those who were most apt to think and speak evil of it . and because that was a very corrupt and a busie and factious age , especially in those cities where the iews and gentiles inhabited together , therefore he adviseth the christians not only to purity and innocency , but to a quiet submission to authority , and however the iews looked on heathen government as a meer appointment of men ; yet he commands them to submit to every ordinance of man for the lords sake , whether it was the imperial , the proconsidar , or the praetorian power , not considering so much the persons imploy'd as the design of the institution , which was for the punishment of evil-doers , and for the praise of them that do well . for so is the will of god , that with this sort of well-doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men , who are apt to quarrel with religion , especially when it appears new , as that which gives occasion to many disturbances of the civil government . and that there might be no colour for any such cavil against christianity , no religion that ever was , did so much inforce the duty of obedience as christ and his apostles did , and that upon the greatest and most weighty considerations , for conscience sake , for the lords sake , for their religions sake . for consider i pray , if the doctrine of christ had given encouragement to faction and rebellion under pretence of it , if s. peter himself had taken upon him to dispose of crowns and scepters , or had absolved christians from their allegiance , even to their greatest persecutors , what a blot this had been upon the whole religion , such as all the blood of the martyrs could never have washed off . for it would have made the condition of princes more precarious , and the duty of subjects more loose and uncertain , and all nations that regarded their own peace and safety shie of entertaining a doctrine which would give so much countenance to rebellion . and yet among all the causes alledged for the persecution of christians , this was never once suggested , which would not have been omitted ( if any such thing had been owned by the christians ) by persons so jealous of their power , as the roman emperours were . it is an intolerable reproach to christianity to impute their patient submission to authority to their weakness and want of force : which is all one as to say , they would have resisted if they durst : this is not to make them harmless as doves , but to have too much of the subtilty of the serpent , in pretending to be innocent when they only wanted an opportunity to do mischief . but the security the christian religion gave to government was from the principles and precepts of it , the design of its doctrine as well as the practice of its followers . so that if their religion were true , it did oblige them to all acts of charity and kindness , to meekness and patience , to peaceableness and a quiet and prudent behaviour in all the changes of humane affairs . from what hath been already said , it is no hard matter to understand the reason why our saviour gave such directions to his apostles , and made choice of such means to promote his religion , because they would hereby see , that he sent not his apostles upon any ambitious or secular design , not to disturb governments upon pretence of setting up a new monarchy in it either of christ or his pretended vicar ; but to prepare men for another world by the love of god and our neighbour , by subduing our lusts and taking off our affections from present things ; and because he knew what persecutions would follow his doctrine , he adviseth his disciples neither to suffer as fools , nor as evil-doers , but to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves . let no man then think our religion weakens their understanding , or impairs their discretion , or puts men upon doing foolish and imprudent things . as it is founded on the best reason , so it brings men to the best temper , and governs their actions by rules of the truest wisdom ; not only as it provides for the most desirable end in another world , but even in this , it secures most the honour , interest and safety of men ; and if circumstances happen to be hard here , it gives the highest assurance of an infinite and eternal recompence . but if men under a pretence of zeal for religion do wicked things , and carry on treacherous and malicious designs , if instead of directing mens consciences in the wayes of innocence and goodness , they teach them the art of putting tricks on god almighty , ( as one called the casuistical divinity of the iesuites ) or the way of breaking his laws by certain shifts and evasions ; if instead of meekness and patience they put men upon acts of revenge and cruelty ; if instead of promoting peace and tranquillity in the world , they plot mischief and stir up faction and rebellion , we are sure whose disciples soever they pretend to be , they are none of christs ; for although they should not all be capable of being wise as serpents , yet they are bound to be harmless as doves . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e v 〈…〉 v. v. , , . luk. . . v. , . . cor. . . ramirez de prado pentecont . c. . chrys. in loc . greg. nazian . orat . . cor. . . psal. . . jam. . . isid. orig. l. . c. . gen. . . job . . . . psal. . . prov. . . . . . . . . . pro. ● . ● . clem. alex. str. . dle ch●rs . de regn . or . . p. . psal. . . prov. . . mat. . . tertul. de fug . c. . &c. c. . chrys. hom . . in iuv. & max. clem. alex. s●r. . p. . joh. . . orig. in job . tom. . c●pr . ●p . athan. ac●●ga . aug cp . ● pet. . . . a●t . . . cor. . . mat. . . m 〈…〉 al 〈…〉 . m●… . 〈◊〉 . s●ct . 〈◊〉 . p. . themist . orat . . euscb. l. . c. . rigalt . ad cypr. cp . . aug. d● mend. c. ● cicer. de offic. l. . ●t . eutych . alex. to. . p. . p. . azor. ins●it . moral . par . 〈◊〉 . l. . c. . 〈◊〉 . . re●inald . prax . l. . sect . . n. . less . de just● pure , l. . c. ● . d●b . . n. . sayr . cl●… . reg. l. . c. . 〈◊〉 . ● . n●va● . man●●● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ●… soto de rat . tezendi ●e●r●r . memb . . qu. 〈◊〉 . nava● . 〈◊〉 supr . bassae . the●● . pract. 〈◊〉 . peccat . . 〈◊〉 . . . bell. de omiss . grat . & stat . peccati , l. . c. cajet . in . . q. . a●● . . grot. de ju 〈◊〉 belli & pa 〈◊〉 l. . c. 〈◊〉 n. . treatise tending to mitigation . c. . §. , . c. §. . genes . scpulveda de rat . d●●endi testim . c. 〈◊〉 . b●rns c. aeq●v . §. . n. . p. . hurtad● resolut . moral . p. . caram● . de restrict . mental . art . . p. . steph. à sancto paulo theol. 〈◊〉 tr . . disp . . aub . . §. . n. . navarr . in c. human . a●res , qu. . n. , . quare omnes qui fatentur quod confessarius verè ●icere potest , ille hoc non est mihi confessus , subintelligendo ita ut tenear prodere ; cog●ntur profecto consiteri quod etiam alius quilibet qui non tenetur aliquid dicere , verè poterit respondere illud sibi non esse dictum , subintelligendo non esse ita ei dictum , ut teneatur id prod●●e . cum igitur omnes con●itcantur illud , nemo debet hoc negare . nav. ib. n. . si enim est mendacium inficiari quod noveris , non est in ecclesiae , imò neque in ipsius dei potestate , quocunque tandem ex sine efficere , ut sacerdos licitè inficietur quae novit , emoner . splendor verit . moral . c. barnes . c. . n. . a genes . sepulveda de nat . dicendi testimon . † emoncr . c. . p. . b barns c. aequivocat . c after fa. barns had written his book against equivocation , and otherways provoked the iesuites , by order of the pope and by means of albertus , he was seized on , and carried to rome , and there died mad in the inquisition . v. leodegar . q●intin . hoeduum advers . th. hurt●do p. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . where the iesuite relates the story . v. theophil . ra●… sive emoncrium adit . ad disput. n. , , . s●to de rat . reg . secret . memb . . qi● . . ●●ncl . . adrian . . quod l. . ad . princip . c. c. sylvest . v. iu●am . cos● . philiarchus de o●●●c . sacerd. 〈◊〉 . . p. . l. . c. . navar. ubi supra 〈◊〉 . . sayr . clav. reg. l. . c. . n. . sa●…z de juram . l. . c. . n. . * m●… de 〈◊〉 in . 〈◊〉 . disp . . testis ver● 〈◊〉 neseio quam verè sciat , quia testis non tenetur respondere iudici secundum suam iniquitatem , sed scundum id quod potest ut iudex , et secundum mentem quam debet habere , etiams● 〈◊〉 non habeat . mich. salon . . . q. . art . controv . . q●…o igitur 〈◊〉 negat 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id i● 〈◊〉 debet , ut neget se non co●…t tale crim●n de quo iudex interrogate debeat . et idem est dicere , non feci hoc-crimen , ac si diceret non 〈◊〉 feci , quod varum est . et cum haec responsio sit vera , nullum ●rit peccatum , 〈◊〉 intercedat 〈◊〉 . lud. carbo tr . de restit . q. . concl . . qua●…s regulariter ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 d●beat ●…ranti juxta mentem ejus , fallit tamen ca doctrina , quando alia mente quam debet adjuratur ; tunc enim sufficit ut respondeat verum secundum mentem & intentionem s●●n , licet falsum sit secundum mentem interrogantis , & a ●●uranti● . greg. sayr . c●…v . reg. l. . c. . n. . &c. parsons treatis . of ●i●●gat . c. . n. . ● . ● . c. . n. . m●… . de ab●… . c. mental . c. §. . p. . e●●ner . splend●… e●i● mo●●l●● . c. . caramuel haplot●s sive de restrict . mental . art . . p. . qu●● 〈◊〉 plen● 〈◊〉 non 〈◊〉 , infectu●● civili●● 〈◊〉 virt●aliter est , hoc est prudentura judicio & estimtione ita s● 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 non 〈◊〉 . at quae s●…ta non sunt negari possunt ; ergo 〈◊〉 qu● s 〈…〉 . c●… . p. . c 〈…〉 . . 〈◊〉 . ● . art . . ad . i●…o 〈◊〉 ipsa sa● restrictione convincitur non praecipitanter fuisse mentitus , sed quod●● modo meditatus fuisse mendaciu● quod gravitatem peccati a●get . m●…der . de a●…su restr . ment . c. . §. . p. . ut quidvis li●●t falsissi , mum verum fieri po●●it restrictione sola mentali . id. p. . caram●●l . lb. art . . concl . . p. . th. ●●b . stat. morum tom. . p. ● . 〈◊〉 . p. . a●… . i●… . p. 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . c. . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . ●… . ●… . 〈◊〉 de r●● . to. . l. . c. . n. . 〈…〉 & ●ure l. 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . ● . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ● . potest aliquis jurare simpliciter falsum addendo aliquid mente , ex quo jurame●●um sit verum , quoties intervenit justa causa . iu●…a causa esse potest necessitas , vel utilitas ad salutem corporis , honoris , rerum familiarium , vel etiam qua●●lo injusta interrogatio proponitur . dian. part . . tr . . resol . . sed juramentum cum deficit sola discretio , non est peccatum mortale . sanch. in sum . tom . . l. . c. . n. . aliique . soto de ration . tegend . secret . memb . . qu. . concl . . v. barns c. aequivocat . §. . n. . p. . §. . n. . iac. de graff●s decis . aur●c l. . c. . n. . quando quis iniquè interrogat excludendo omnem aequivocationem , posse interrogatum u●i aequivocatione apponendo aliquam particulam in mente , per quam ver●m essiciatur juramentum . bonacina to. . disp . . q. . punct . . n. . less . de justit . & jure , l. . c. . dub . . n. . filliuc . mor. quaest. tr . . c. . n. . sà aphorism judicial . actus , n. . navarr . man. c. . n. . dian. sum. v. reus n. . iac. de graffiis , l. . c. . n. . escobar tr . . ex . . n. . azor. p. . l. . c. . dub . . sayr . clav. reg. l. . c. . layman . l. . tr . . c. . n. . sà aphor. de reo . n. , . bass. reus p. . n. . * imo pu●…llanines & si ul●i ●●bentur si ea fate●●ntur . dicast illo de jura●…ento d●sp . dub . . n. . i●…go de iust●t . & jure tom. . desp. 〈◊〉 . s●… . . n. . g. abb●t de m●ndac . p. , . & in p●●f . p. . &c. molan . de side haeret . serv. l. . c. . barns de aequivocat . §. . n. . p. . * a●ist . hist. anim. l. . c. . gen. . . rom. . . mat. . . rom. . . cor. . , , . . luke . . pet. . . . . . , , , . . , , . rom. . . bell. de rom. pont. l. . c. . 〈…〉 epist. provinc . . not. . a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall, march the st, / by the right reverend father in god edward, lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall, march the st, / by the right reverend father in god edward, lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for henry mortlock ..., london : . "published by her majesties special command." advertisement on p. 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these few words contain in them a smart and serious expostulation of our blessed saviour , with such who professed great kindness to him in their words , but shew'd no regard to his commands . they owned him to be the messias , and depended upon him for their happiness , and were willing enough to be known to be his disciples and followers , but yet his doctrine made little impression on their minds , and scarce any alteration in the course of their lives . they loved to be where christ was , to hear his doctrine , to see his miracles , to observe his conversation , to admire what he did and said ; but herein lay the whole of their religion ; for although they named the name of christ , and it may be rejoyced and glory'd in it , yet they did not depart from iniquity . now , considering the circumstances of that time , this seems to have been an unaccountable kind of hypocrisie . for their calling christ lord , lord , spoiled their interest in this world ; and not doing what he said , debarr'd , them from the hopes of happiness by him in another . for , if they own'd him to be their lord , they were bound to believe him in what he declared ; and there is nothing he doth more expresly warn men of than hoping to be saved by him without obeying his commands . not every one that saith unto me lord , lord , shall enter into the kingdom of heaven , but he that doth the will of my father which is in heaven . which is shorter expressed , but to the same purpose here by s. luke ; and why call ye me lord , lord , and do not the things which i say ? as though he had said to them , it is in vain to think to please and flatter me with your words , when your actions are disagreeable to them . to call me lord , lord , is to own my authority in commanding you ; but to do this , and yet wilfully to disobey me , is to shew your hypocrisie and folly together . which expostulation of christ , was not confined to that time , no more than his commands were ; but it hath always the same force , where persons are guilty of the same folly. for , although now none can plead for themselves , as they did , we have eaten and drank in thy presence , and thou hast taught in our streets ; yet we may build as presumptuous hopes upon privileges of another kind , which may be as ineffectual to our salvation , as these were when christ said to those very persons , depart from me all ye workers of iniquity . we all bear the name of christ , and own his doctrine , and partake of his sacraments ; and in one of them profess to eat and drink in his presence , and at his table , and renew our solemn baptismal vow and covenant with him as our lord and saviour ; and so we pray to him and profess to depend upon him for our salvation ; and therefore we are as deeply concerned in the scope and design of these words , as ever the iews were to whom our saviour spake them . but that i may the better apply them to the consciences of all those who hear me this day , and to make my discourse more usefull and practical , i shall single out some of the most remarkable instances of those duties , which christ hath enjoyned to his disciples of all ages and nations ; and then shew how just and reasonable it is that all who call christ lord , lord , should do what he saith about them ; and yet that the generality of those who do so , do very little mind or regard them . the main part of those duties which christ requires from all his disciples may be reduced to these three heads : i. such as relate to the government of our passions . ii. to the government of our speech . iii. to the government of our actions ; so , as that we lead a sober , righteous and godly life . i. as to the government of our passions . and that may be considered three ways . . as to the things which are apt to provoke us . . as to the things which are apt to tempt us . . as to the things which concern us , in respect of our condition in this world. ( ) as to the things which are apt to provoke us . such is the frame of human nature , that we are very tender and sensible not only of any real hurt or injury which may be done to our bodies or estates , but of any thing we apprehend may do so , or that touches upon our reputation . and where the injury is real , yet that which often touches most to the quick , is the contempt which is expressed in it . for , if the same thing be done by one , we are satisfied did it not out of any unkindness or ill-will , the matter is easily passed over , and makes no breach or difference between them . but , if it be intended for an affront , although it be never so little , then the brisker mens spirits are , and the higher opinion they have of themselves , so much deeper impression is presently made in the mind ; and that inflames the heart and puts the blood and spirits into a quicker motion in order to the returning the affront on him that gave it . but there is a considerable difference in mens tempers to be observed ; some are very quick and hasty , others are slower in the beginning , but more violent afterwards ; the passions in the former , are like a flash of gun-powder , which begins suddenly , makes a great noise and is soon over ; but the other are like a burning fever , which is lower at first , but rises by degrees , till the whole body be in a flame . the one is more troublesome , but the other more dangerous ; the care of the one must be in the beginning ; of the other in the continuance of passion , lest it turn into hatred , malice and revenge . but , what through the natural heat of temper in some , the jealousie and suspicion in others , the crossing each others designs and inclinations , the misconstruction of words and actions , the carelesness of some and the frowardness and peevishness of others , mankind are apt to lead very uneasie lives with respect to one another ; and must do so unless they look after the government of themselves as to real or imaginary provocations . there are two things i shall therefore speak to , ( ) that it is reasonable that a restraint should be laid on mens violent passions . ( ) that christ hath laid no unreasonable restraint upon them . ( ) that it is reasonable that a restraint should be laid on mens violent passions . and that on a twofold account . ( ) with respect to the common tranquillity of human life . ( ) to the particular tranquillity of our own minds . ( ) to the common tranquillity of human life . the great comfort and pleasure of it depends on the mutual benefit men have from society with one another . this cannot be enjoy'd without particular persons abridging themselves of some natural rights for a common benefit . if we could suppose no such thing as government or society among men , we must suppose nothing but disorder and confusion ; every one being his own judge and executioner too in case of any apprehended wrong or injury done to him . which condition of life having all imaginable uneasiness attending it , by perpetual fears and jealousies and mistrusts of one anothers powers , there was a necessity that they must come to some common terms of agreement with each other ; so as to fix their rights and to establish a just measure of proceeding in case of wrong . for every mans revenging his own injury according to his own judgment , was one of those great inconveniencies , which was to be remedied by society , laws and government . and mankinds entering into society for this end , doth suppose it possible for them to keep under their violent passions ; and to submit their private injuries to the equal arbitration of laws ; or else they are made to no purpose , unless it be to punish men for what they cannot avoid . for many of those crimes which all the laws of mankind do punish , as wilfull murder , may be committed through the force of a violent passion ; and if that be irresistible , then the laws which punish it are not founded on reason and justice . but if such laws are very just and reasonable , as no doubt they are , then all mankind are agreed that mens violent passions may and ought to be restrained in some cases . the only dispute then remaining is , whether it may not be as fitting to restrain our passions in such cases , which the law takes no notice of . for , there is a superiour law , viz. that of reason whereby we are to be governed ; and the publick laws do not forbid or punish offences because they are unreasonable , but because they are dangerous and hurtfull to human society . and if it be allow'd to be fitting and necessary for men to keep their passions within the compass of laws , why not within the conduct of reason ? especially , when a great deal of disorder may happen , and disturbance of the peace and quiet of human society , by the violence of passions , which may be out of the reach of human laws . and every man is bound by virtue of his being in society , to preserve the tranquillity of it as much as he can . ( ) the tranquillity of our own minds depends upon it . and certainly , that is a very reasonable motive for the government of our passions , since those are the occasions of all the storms and tempests within our breasts . for the government of reason is calm , even and serene , full of peace and all the blessings which follow it ; but the government of passion is tyrannical and boisterous , uncertain and troublesome ; never free from doing mischief to it self or others . the greatest pleasure of passion is revenge ; and yet that is so unnatural , so full of anxiety and fear of the consequents of it , that he who can subdue this unruly passion hath more real pleasure and satisfaction in his mind , than he who seeks to gratifie it most . for , if he be disappointed , then he must be uneasie by failing of his end ; if he be not , then he is tormented with the apprehensions of what may follow it . so that there is nothing which conduces more to the greatest blessing of life , the tranquillity of our minds , than the government of our passions doth . ( ) let us now see , whether our saviour hath laid any unreasonable restraint upon our passions . there are three things he particularly requires in order to the government of them . ( ) meekness . ( ) patience . ( ) love of enemies . and i hope to make it appear , that there is nothing unreasonable in any of these . ( ) meekness . which is such a gentleness of temper , as makes a man not easie to be provoked . there is a great deal of difference between meekness and stupidity ; the one arises from a natural dullness and insensibility ; the other from a fixed , calm and composed temper of mind ; and is founded on two , which are both wise things , especially when they go together ; and those are , consideration and resolution . for , nothing tends to the abating the heat and violence of passion so much , as consideration doth , and resolution makes it effectual . if it were nothing but the time it gives , that is of great force for letting out the inward fermentation , which will spend it self in great measure , if vent be given to it . whereas , if it be kept in and suffer'd to work upon it self , it turns from a hasty passion to malice and revenge . but consideration is of greater use , as it suggests arguments from reason to quell and allay the sudden heat of passions ; as , that , it exposes the weakness of our minds , in not being able to keep under that which they ought to govern and have power to command ; that , it is a great folly to disorder our selves , at the pleasure of our enemies ; or , at such accidents , which we can neither prevent , nor remove ; that , the wisest thing we can do , is not to betray our folly to others , if we cannot wholly suppress it in our selves ; that , we weaken the reins of the government of our selves , by not holding them with a stricter hand ; and make our passions more seditious and turbulent by letting them alone ; that , the more we try to command our selves the easier we shall do it ; that our most rebellious passions will submit , if they find we are in earnest ; that , it is the way to make that a real injury by being disturbed , which would lose is force by being neglected ; that , while we are true to our selves , we are out of the reach of our enemies , and then we are most under their power , when we are least under our own ; that , the great work of religion lies within us ; and that we are in a very ill condition if neither reason nor religion can keep us in order . by such considerations as these , men are brought to a more calm and composed temper , which is that meekness which our saviour requires . and to this he seems to appropriate the happiness of this life . blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth . what doth our blessed saviour mean by inheriting the earth ? is there any thing like blessedness to be expected in this troublesome and sinfull world ? not absolutely ; but comparatively there may ; and if there be any thing like it to be had here , the meek may put in for the largest share of it . for they have more friends and fewer enemies than the rest of the world ; they enjoy themselves with more quietness and satisfaction , and are less disturbed at the noise and tumultuous passions of the rest of mankind . o happy temper ! to be calm and easie and in good humour , in the midst of disorders and provocations ; to enjoy the peace and serenity of the regions above , in the midst of the storms and tempests , here below ; to raise the mind above the power of detraction ; and thereby to suffer the venom of malicious tongues to scatter and disperse it self in the open air , if it doth not return to the breasts of those from whom it came . s. iames might therefore well call it the meekness of wisdom , not only because wisdom directs it , but that it consists very much in the exercise of it . . patience . for let persons be endued with the spirit of meekness , yet the world is so froward and hard to be pleased , so captious and ill-natured , so ready to apprehend an injury and to revenge it , that there is great need of patience , not only in bearing the troubles of life , but in forbearing to return evil for evil . and this is that which our saviour particularly requires of his disciples . he strictly forbids all causeless anger , all contumelious and reproachfull words ; and when injuries are done us , he commands us that we resist not evil ; but if one smite us on the right cheek , to turn to him the other also . and if any man will sue thee at the law and take away thy coat , let him have thy cloak also . and whosoever will compel thee to go a mile , go with him twain . now here lies a real difficulty ; for this seems to go beyond the bounds of human patience : to pass by affronts without taking notice of them ; not to resent the injuries of those whom no kindness can oblige , seems to be a great degree of vertue ; and it is so ; but to bind hand and foot when we receive them , to invite them to do more , and to offer our selves to double the proportion , seems wholly unaccountable to reason , and inconsistent with the wisdom of christianity . the true account of the meaning of these commands is this ; our saviour takes it for granted , that all considerable matters of right and wrong were determin'd by laws ; as the most equal measures between parties ; and these he meddled not with ; for , saith he , to one that desired him to interpose in such a matter ; who made me a iudge or a divider among you ? therefore he doth not abridge his followers from making use of these laws and courts of judicature , which are established for matters of common justice and equity ; but all the laws in the world cannot alter the temper of some mens minds , who are peevish and quarrelsome , who are provoked on any slight occasion , and it may be are provoked if you gave them none . like the roman orator , seneca mentions , who was angry with every one that came near him ; and when a client sought to humour him in every thing , he was at last angry with him , because he did not provoke him . there are some tempers so easily provoked , and yet so hard to be reconciled , as if their original sin did not lie in concupiscence but in ill-nature . and yet , even that is a kind of concupiscence ; for the stoicks defined anger by libido ; and said it was a lust of revenge ; and so far , seem'd more unreasonable than that of intemperance ; because this aims only at pleasure , in things which are apt to produce it ( however mean and unreasonable ) but the other is an extravagant and unnatural pleasure , which arises from anothers pain ; and differs from the other , as the pleasures of evil spirits do from those of brutes . but if we happen to converse among such who take pleasure in doing us injuries upon every slight occasion , by some personal affronts , or litigious suits , or unjust exactions in ordinary cases ; what are we to do ? may we not right our selves by retaliating the injury upon them ? since the law of moses did allow of retaliation in case of real injuries , an eye for an eye , a tooth for a tooth ; and so by an equitable construction of the law , it may extend to personal affronts . thus the iews indeed understood it ; but if our saviour had allow'd their interpretation , he would never have said , but i say unto you , that ye resist not evil . there was a spirit of revenge in them , so as they would pass by no kind of injuries , although they were such , which the law had made no provision for ; and this our saviour condemns . but here comes a hard case to be resolved ; not so in it self , but the custom of the world hath made it so ; for when a mistaken notion of honour and conscience come in competition , it is not an easie thing to forego honour for conscience sake . the case is , concerning contumelious words and personal affronts , which are given to men of honour . is it unlawfull for them to right themselves according to the received customs among them , when the law takes no notice of such injuries , and so seems to leave it to them ? this is the case ; and i have put it as fair as the thing will bear . i might say in general that our saviour makes no distinction of mens honour and quality in his commands ; and that for all that i can see , such must be saved on the same terms with others ; that honour is but an imaginary thing when it stands in competition with the rule of conscience ; and that no custom is to be observed against reason and religion : but here lies the insuperable difficulty ; how the exposing one anothers lives for the sake of reproachfull words or personal affronts , can be reconciled to this command of christ ? for my part , i cannot see how it is possible to do it ; since in this case , there is a studied and premeditated design of revenge in the case of such injuries which are here mention'd ; and that of the highest nature , and beyond any proportion between the offence and the punishment , which all men out of passion , think , in common justice ought to be consider'd . i know some casuists in the church of rome , allow it to be lawfull to take away the lives of any who give them contumelious words ; but these have been condemned as very loose casuists ; and they have found out a subtle way of directing the intention , whereby to keep from breaking the laws of christ ; but this is too subtle to be reconciled with the plainness of his laws ; and they all deny it to be lawfull by way of revenge . others say much better , that although nature may seem to give an injured person a right to vindicate himself by the best means he can ; yet that right is so restrained and limited by christ's commands in this case , that it is by no means lawfull for christians to use it ; and to pretend to do it for a reparation of honour , à ratione & pietate valde alienam videtur , is repugnant both to reason and religion ; saith one , who very well understood the rules of both . but all the pretended right of nature is taken away by laws , and where those declare it to be wilfull murder to take away the life of another on such accounts as these , there is no colour left for natural right , which supposes no determination by laws . i confess it requires a more than ordinary degree of christian fortitude as well as patience , to be able to despise such a prevailing custom . but if men hope to be saved by christ , they must observe his commands ; and if they once declare , that they are resolved to do so in this particular , ( if they do the same in all others ) it will be then thought to be conscience and not cowardice for them to decline a challenge ; and that upon good grounds they contemn such a custom , which no good man could ever approve , nor any wise man defend . . love of enemies . this seems to be harder yet . is it not enough to bear them ; but must we love them too ? yes , christ hath strictly required it . but i say unto you , love your enemies ; and again in this very chapter , but love your enemies . if he had bid men love their friends and take heed of their enemies , there are some ages of the world , wherein this had been no impertinent advice . but how can those be supposed to love their enemies , who hardly love any thing but themselves ? self-opinion , self-will , self-interest prevail over the far-greatest part of mankind ; i wish i could not say , even among those who call christ lord , lord. but self-love as natural as it is , must be artificially disguised ; for , if it appears too openly , it meets with so much self-love in others , that it will not be easily born . therefore the most crafty lovers of themselves , if they design to have the love of others , must conceal their inward passion . for , he that appears to set up himself , is certain to make the rest of mankind his enemies ; for , even those who would do the same , will be the most displeased with those who do it . therefore , the most certain way to honour and universal esteem , is to mind the good of others more than our own ; to be just and charitable and kind to all ; and to oblige as many as we can , without partiality or prejudice . and this , i say , is that love of enemies which our saviour requires , which doth not suppose the same kind of affection to them which we have to our friends , for that is grounded on mutual love and good-will to each other ; which , if we suppose in enemies , we suppose a contradiction ; for that is to suppose them not to be enemies , but friends . what then is it which our saviour means ? it is certainly an universal charity , or a readiness of mind to do good to all , although they have personally provoked , or injured us . and so christ himself explains it , by doing good to our enemies , praying for them and relieving them in their necessities ; and he proposes the best example in the world for our imitation ; and that of god himself , who maketh his sun to rise on the evil and the good , and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust . but none can suppose that the righteous and holy god , can have the same love or kindness for the evil , which he hath for the good , or for the unjust , which he hath for the just. so that this precept , which being misunderstood , seems to be irreconcilable to human nature , contains in it , nothing but what all mankind approve in others , as unwilling as they are to practise it themselves . and now , it is time to make a stand , and to look about us , for , i have gone through our saviour's commands with respect to the things which are apt to provoke us . and where are those christians to be found , who do what christ hath said herein , who do yet every day call him lord , lord ? if peevishness and frowardness , perpetual uneasiness and discontent ; if rancour and bitterness , strife and envying , faction and animosity ; if impatience of apprehended injuries , and the making of enemies , instead of loving them , were the marks of good christians , we should find number enough ; even among those who pretend to reformation . we profess to thank god for a late great deliverance from the hands of our enemies , i mean as to our religion ; ( and truely there appears more and more reason for it , since it is so much more evident that the design was no less than a total subversion of our religion . ) but what a sad requital is this , for so great mercies , to break out into factions and parties , instead of pursuing the common interest of our religion ? instead of laying aside differences about religion , to increase them ; nay to make religion it self not only the subject of their quarrels , but of their scorn and contempt ? what can be said or hoped for , as to such a froward , unthankfull , atheistical generation of men ? thanks be to god , there are not wanting some extraordinary examples of true piety and goodness among us ; and of meekness , patience and vniversal charity , and truely there needs a great deal , to bear up against the daring and insolent profaneness and irreligion of others . when i once see a true spirit of reformation prevail among us , not meerly as to doctrines , but as to mens lives and tempers ; when i see them more zealous for god and religion , than for the interest of particular parties ; when i see them really promoting peace and unity , and not making a pretence of it to serve private ends , i may then hope for a lasting settlement of the true religion among us . but till then — ( ) i proceed to the second head of our saviour's commands , and that is as to such things which tempt us . s ▪ iames saith , every man is tempted , when he is drawn aside of his own lust and inticed . lust is the ungoverned desire of sensual pleasure . now , as to this , christ hath laid so strict a command , as seems very hard for human nature to observe . for he not only forbids the act of adultery , but the tendencies to it ; viz. the impurity of the inward desires , and of looks and glances , and makes these to be adultery in the heart . what is that ? for adultery is an outward , deliberate act , and hath injustice as well as vncleanness in it . but desires and looks , are sudden and transient things , which may leave , no permanent effect behind them . however , our saviour , to shew how much god abhorrs impurity , ( who sees into the secret thoughts and intentions of the heart , ) declares that the unmortified desires and inward lusts are very displeasing to god ; and therefore that those who hope to see god , must be pure in heart . which as it implies a sincere endeavour to suppress all inward motions which are contrary to it , is both a reasonable and necessary duty . but the hardest part of christ's commands in this matter , is that which requires us to pluck out right eyes and to cut off right hands : must the blind and the lame only go to heaven ? but he speaks of such sinfull inclinations in us , which seem as delightfull and usefull to us as to the pleasures of life , as a right eye or a right hand ; yet we must part with them , if we ever hope to get to heaven . not , by any one single act like the cutting off a hand , or plucking out an eye , but by a serious , constant and sincere endeavour to mortifie and subdue them . and if this be thought hard , the consideration of future happiness and misery ought to reconcile us to it ; and surely it is reasonable , we should part with something which is pleasant to us here , for the sake of an infinitely greater pleasure in another world ; especially since this is only a sensual pleasure , which cannot be pursued without disturbance of the mind , and can be enjoy'd but for a little time ; and the other is no less than eternal felicity of soul and body together . ( ) as to the things which concern us , as to our condition in this world. there is no precept of christ which seems more inconsistent with the wisdom of this world , than this doth . for , as that lies in taking great care for the future ; so our saviour on the contrary seems to allow none at all therefore i say unto you , take no thought for your life , what ye shall eat , or what ye shall drink , nor yet , for your body , what ye shall put on . what doth our saviour mean by this ? would he have all christians live like the young ravens , meerly upon providence ? or , as the lillies of the field , which grow and flourish and yet neither toil nor spin ? but man is an intelligent creature , and apt to forecast and contrive things for his future advantage , and god seems to have left things very much to his own care and providence ; and generally speaking , mens condition in this world is according to it . what then ? doth our saviour indulge men in a careless , easie , unthinking life ? or , require that his disciple's thoughts ought to be wholly taken up with matters of religion ? not , if s. paul knew his meaning ; for he saith , those who provide not for their own , have denied the faith and are worse than infidels . but this only seems to make the difficulty greater . therefore to clear it , we must attend to our saviour's scope and design ; which was , to perswade his disciples to lay up their treasure in heaven , to seek the kingdom of god and his righteousness in the first place ; and then represents this world and another as two opposite interests , so that one cannot serve two masters ; which implies a contradiction to each other . so that what follows must be understood in such a sense , as is inconsistent with the main duty , of looking after heaven as our happiness ; and therefore ought not to be understood of a prudent , necessary care , but of an anxious , solicitous , distrustfull care , which implies that we place our happiness too much here . and therefore s. luke subjoyns these commands to the parable of the rich man , whose heart was in his barns and store-houses , and took great care to lay in provision enough for a sensual and voluptuous life : but to shew the unspeakable folly of such vain contrivances , it was said to him , this night shall thy soul be required of thee ; and then whose shall these things be which thou hast provided ? ii. i come now to our saviour's commands with respect to the government of our speech . and he seems to be very severe as to this , when he saith , that every idle word that men shall speak , they shall give account thereof at the day of iudgment . what a heavy account then , are those to make , whose time is so much taken up with idle and impertinent talk ; and who can hardly forbear it , when they should be most serious ? is it unlawfull then to speak any more than is just necessary to express our minds ? may we not imploy our speech sometimes for our innocent diversion and entertainment if we keep within the bounds of prudence and religion ? i do not see that our saviour forbids it . for the idle words he speaks of there , are profane , false , abusive , malicious reproaches of religion and the means to confirm it ; as appears by his bringing it just after the mention of the blasphemy against the holy ghost . so that all such abuses of speech which entrench on piety and good manners , or truth and sincerity , are certainly forbidden by him . but there is one particular vice of conversation , which he hath with most force of argument forbiddden ; and yet ( which is a great shame to any that would be called christians ) none more common among some who would pretend to understand the methods of conversation and the best modes of speaking ; and that is the profane custom of swearing . i take it for granted , that all are christians among us , till they disown it themselves ; and however men may act , they are not willing to renounce all hopes of salvation by christ. i beseech them then to consider , what a contempt of his authority is implied in this , too fashionable sort of profaneness ? the other duties i have mention'd , have a great difficulty in them , as to our tempers and inclinations ; but nothing of that nature can be so much as pretended as to this . for no man could ever say , that he had a swearing constitution , or that it was an infirmity of his nature . there is nothing in it but the tyranny of a very bad custom ; which every prudent man , as well as good christian , will see cause to break . but what a reproach is it , to the very profession of christianity among us for so plain , so easie a command of christ to be broken so commonly , so unconcernedly , so impertinently , as is every day done ; and yet they call christ lord , lord ? in all ages , there were some pretended christians , who did not sincerely obey the commands of our saviour ; but their hypocrisie was of a finer and more artificial make ; this is gross and rude , without the common respect which is due to the religion we all profess to be that , or hope to be saved by . some say , a custom in it self is no sin , because it is no act ; but certainly a customary breach of a plain command is so much greater a sin , as it implies a greater contempt of him that made it ; and when custom hath taken away the sense of a fault , it is so much more aggravated by it . it is really a matter to be wonder'd at , that among persons professing a better sort of breeding , as well as christianity ; a vitious custom , so untempting in it self , so unbecoming the decency of conversation , so affronting to the divine majesty , so directly contrary to the commands of christ , should get so deep a rooting in ordinary conversation , that it seems almost impossible to be reformed . but till men do think of breaking off such a practise as this , i despair of ever seeing them reform other things which have a deeper root in their natural inclinations , and have greater advantages as to this world. iii. the commands of christ extend to the whole course of our actions ; so , as that we lead a sober , righteous and godly life . . as to sobriety . take heed to your selves , saith christ , lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting and drunkenness . these are somewhat hard words for that which our age hath learnt to express in much softer terms of eating and drinking well . luxury seems a thing quite forgotten to be a sin ▪ among those who are most guilty of it ; and intemperance thought so uncertain a thing , as though it were impossible to tell when persons are guilty of it . 't is true , that temperance may vary as to the degrees and limits of it ; and we do not pretend to define it by grains and scruples . but still , there ought to be a governing our appetites according to reason , and that is temperance . but what is reason in this case ? some send us to the brutes to find out what reason is ; and they tell us , it lies in a plain simple diet , such as the beasts use , without provoking or raising the appetite . but i know not where god hath forbidden the use of art , as to our eating and drinking ; and if this were so , we must practise temperance only in the use of water and acorns . if meer satisfaction of nature were the exact rule of temperance , then eating or drinking any thing beyond it were a sin ; which would fill the minds of those who are afraid to sin , with infinite scruples ; and make all feasting unlawfull . yet our saviour was present at one in cana of galilee ; and did a miracle relating to it . but we need not run into niceties in this matter ; for , intemperance is either an over-charging of nature , so as to make it to sink or totter under the load ; or it is a wanton humouring and pleasing the appetit● , not , for the service of nature , but for the pleasure of eating and drinking ; or , it is as s. paul calls it , making a god of their belly , by sacrificing their time , their study , their estates in order to the filling and pleasing of it . any of these ways , it is no difficulty to understand what intemperance is ; i wish it were as easie to avoid it . . as to righteousness . our saviour hath given one admirable rule ; which all persons agree to be of excellent use in all contracts and transactions of men with one another ; v. . and as ye would that men should do to you , do ye also to them likewise . which is an universal rule of justice and equity , if it be understood of what we would have others to do to us according to reason , and not according to the partial affection we are apt to have to our selves . for this rule is founded upon the second great commandment , as our saviour calls it , thou shalt love thy neighbour as thy self . . as to godliness . he lays the foundation of that upon the first and great commandment , thou shalt love the lord thy god , with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy strength . we need not to question , but where-ever there is such a love of god , as is here required , there will be true godliness in all the parts of it . and where this is wanting , all external shews of devotion want the true life and spirit of it . for it is the love of god which makes all our weak and imperfect services to be acceptable to him ; and without it all our prayers and our fastings , and all other appearances of devotion , are empty and insipid formalities . not , but that the acts themselves are commendable ; but , they are like a body without a soul , dull and heavy ; or like the leaves of a tree in autumn , which make a great noise in the wind , but are dry , sapless and soon fall to the ground . but where the love of god prevails , it keeps up the life and order and vigour of devotion ; and preserves it from being tainted by hypocrisie , or choaked by the love of this world , or decaying from want of constancy and resolution . thus i have set before you some of the most remarkable duties of christianity ; not such as depend on the opinions and fancies of men ; but such as our blessed saviour , the great law-giver of his church , hath made the necessary conditions of our salvation by him . and what now can we say for our selves ? we do call christ lord , lord ; or else we renounce our baptismal vow , and all hopes of salvation by him . but can we say that we love god , when we love what he hates , viz. sin ? can we say , we love him with all our heart and soul , when our hearts are so much divided between him and the vanities of this world ? can we say , we love him with all our might , when our love to god is apt to grow cold and remiss upon any apprehension of difficulties ? can we say , that we love our neighbour as our selves , when we despise and scorn him , or over-reach and defraud him , or oppress and ruin him ? if it go not so far , are we as tender of his reputation as of our own ; as unwilling to see him injured , as ready to help him in his necessities , as we should desire it from others , if we were in the same circumstances ? if strict sobriety and temperance be the duties of christians , where are those vertues to be generally found ? i do not speak of particular persons ; but i am afraid , there is hardly such a thing left as a sober party among us . what profane , customary swearing is every-where to be met with ? what complaints are daily made of the abounding of all sorts of wickedness , even to an open scorn and contempt , not barely of christianity , but of any kind of religion ? for , many who have long denied the power , seem to be grown weary of the very form of godliness ; unless it serves some particular end and design . so that , if we look abroad in the world , we find little regard shew'd to the precepts of christ ; and yet those who commit these things call christ lord , lord. what is the meaning of all this gross hypocrisie ? nothing would have been thought more absurd or ridiculous , than for one who used no kind of abstinence , to be thought a pythagorean ; or one that indulged his passions a stoick ; or one who eats flesh and drinks wine a brachman , or banian . it is really , as much for any one to break the known and particular precepts of christ , and yet desire to be thought a christian. for , a loose , profane and debauched christian , is a contradiction in morality ; it is to be a christian against christ , to call him lord , lord , and yet to defie his laws and authority . a star without light , a guide without eyes , a man without reason , a sun with nothing but spots , are not more absurd suppositions , than a christian without any grace , or vertue . but let us say what we will , there are and will be such , who will own christ and call him lord , lord , and yet will not part with their sins for him . there were multitudes of such formerly who would lay down their lives for the ground he trod on , and yet would not mortifie one sin for his sake . the reason is still the same which our saviour mentions , they hope that calling him lord , lord , will make amends for all ; and yet it is not possible that fairer warning should be given to any , than he hath given in this case , that let them pretend what they will , he will say to them at the great day , depart from me all ye workers of iniquity . o dreadfull sentence ! not , to be mention'd without horrour , nor to be thought upon without astonishment . how miserable , for ever miserable , must their condition be , whom christ at that day shall bid to depart from him ! what is this , some will be apt to say , but to put all christians into utter despair ? for , who is there that can say , that he hath done all that christ hath said ? truely , we have a sufficient ground for deep humility and serious repentance , and timely reformation . but there is a great difference between the failing of our duty and the works of iniquity ; between the infirmities of those who sincerely endeavour to do his will , and the presumptuous sins of those who despise it ; between sins committed and heartily repented of ; and sins habitually practised and continued in , without any marks of amendment . such must go out of this world in a state of sin , and therefore can expect nothing but that dreadfull sentence , which i tremble at the very thoughts of repeating . but there are others , who in the sincerity of their hearts have endeavour'd to do his will ; and whose sincerity will be so far accepted by him , that he will say to them at that day , come ye blessed of my father , inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. to which god of his infinite mercy bring us through the mediation of christ jesus our lord. finis . lately printed for henry mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall , febr. . / . upon pet. . verse . a sermon preached before the king and queen at white-hall , march ▪ the d . / . upon ecclesistiastes . verse . christian magnanimity : a sermon preached in the cathedral church at worcester , at the time of the assizes , september . . upon tim. . verse . all three by the right reverend father in god , edward lord bishop of worcester . the bishop of worcester's charge to the clergy of his diocese , in his primary visitation , begun at worcester , septemb. . . quarto . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e matt. . . luk. . . v. . matt. . . jam. . . matt. . . v. . v. . v. . luk. . de irâ , l. . c. . tusc. . . exod. . . levit. . . deut. . . gr. de i. b. & p. l. . . . luk. . , . luk. . . . . jam. . . matt. . . matt. . . matt. . . . matt. . . luk. . . luke . . . job . . psal. . . tim. . . luke . . , . v. . matt. . . v. . matt. . , . luk. . phil. . . matt. . . matt. . . matt. . . luk. . . matt. . . a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall, march the th, / by the right reverend father in god, edward, lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall, march the th, / by the right reverend father in god, edward, lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . p. printed by j.h. for henry mortlock ..., london : . 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t. -- romans viii, -- sermons. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - amanda watson sampled and proofread - amanda watson text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall , march the th . / . by the right reverend father in god , edward , lord bishop of worcester . published by her majesty's special command . london , printed by j. h. for henry mortlock , at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , . romans viii . . for , to be carnally minded is death ; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace . in these words is imply'd a distribution of mankind into those who are carnally and spiritually minded ; which distinction is so large and comprehensive , as to take in all sorts and conditions of men , and of so great moment and importance , that their life or death , happiness or misery depend upon it . but , considering the mixture of good and evil in mankind , it is not an easie matter to set the bounds of the carnal and spiritual mind ; and considering the frequent impunity and security of bad men , and the fears and troubles , which the best are not exempted from , it seems next to impossible to make out ( at least as to this life ) that to be carnally minded is death , but to be spiritually minded is life and peace . yet , our apostle doth not seem to confine the consequences here mention'd to another world , ( although the full accomplishment of them be only there to be expected ; ) but if we attend to his scope and design in the end of the foregoing chapter , and the beginning of this , we shall find that even in this life the result of a carnal mind is a sort of spiritual death ; and of a spiritual mind is life and peace : for , when s. paul in the th chapter had represented himself as carnal and sold under sin , although there were great strugglings between the convictions of his conscience , and the strength of carnal inclinations ; yet , as long as the latter prevailed so that he could not do the things that his mind and reason told him he ought to do ; but did those things which he was convinced he ought not to have done : the more he reflected upon himself , the more sad and miserable he found his condition to be , as appears by that emphatical expression which follow'd upon it , o wretched man that i am , who shall deliver me from the body of this death ? but he no sooner finds hopes of delivery and escape out of that estate , but he breaks forth into a transport of joy and inward satisfaction . thanks be to god who hath given us the victory through jesus christ our lord. not meerly a victory over death , but over sin too : and so he begins this chapter after a triumphant manner ; there is therefore no condemnation to them which are in christ jesus ; who walk not after the flesh , but after the spirit . for the lord of the spirit of life which was in christ jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death : he that groaned under his captivity before to the law of sin , doth now rejoyce in his deliverance from it by the grace of the gospel . for , what could not be done by natural freedom , by the power of the law and the force of reason , is brought to pass by the assistance of divine grace given to the souls of men by jesus christ. for what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh : what was that which the law could not do ? it could awaken , convince , terrifie and confound the consciences of sinners under the sense and apprehension of their sins ; but it could neither satisfie the justice of god , nor the minds of men ; it could not remove the guilt , nor take away the force and power of sin. but god sending his own son in the likeness of sinfull flesh , and for sin condemned sin in the flesh ; i. e. jesus christ becoming an expiatory sacrifice for sin , took off the damning power of sin ; and by the prevailing efficacy of his grace subdued the strength and force of it to such a degree , that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us , who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit . how could this be , if s. paul still considered himself in the same condition he did in the foregoing chapter ? for if he were still in captivity to the law of sin in his members , how was it possible that the righteousness of the law should be fulfilled in him ? how could he walk not after the flesh but after the spirit , if the good which he would he did not , and the evil which he would not that he did ? for these things are so repugnant to each other , that when they are spoken of the same person , it must be under different considerations ; the one of him , as meerly under the power of the law ; the other , as under the grace and influence of the gospel . the one was like rough and a churlish sort of physick , which searches into every part , and puts all the ill humours of the body into motion , and makes a general disturbance and uneasiness within , but yet lets them remain where they were ; the other is like a gentle but more effectual remedy , which carries off the strength and power of inward corruptions , and alters the habit and temper , and puts quite another disposition into us , which produces very different effects upon us . for , instead of horrour and despair , and inward anguish and confusion , there will follow a new life of joy and peace here , and eternal happiness hereafter . and this is what the apostle means in the words of the text ; to be carnally minded , &c. wherein are two things , which very much deserve our consideration . i. the different tempers of mens minds ; some are carnally and others spiritually minded . ii. the different consequences which follow them : to be carnally minded is death ; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace . i. the different tempers of mens minds . the different denominations are taken from the flesh and the spirit ; which are here represented as two principles so different from each other , that the same person cannot be supposed to be acted by both of them . for , as the apostle saith in the foregoing words , they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh ; but they that are after the spirit the things of the spirit . where the flesh , in a moral sense , takes in all our sensual inclinations which are sinfull either in their nature or degree . the spirit is that divine principle , which possesses the mind with the love and esteem of spiritual things , and keeps our natural inclinations within the compass of god's law. to be carnally minded , is to be under the influence of carnal things , so as to make the pursuit of them our chief design : to be spiritually minded is to have so deep and just a sense of god and his law upon our minds , as to make it our business to please him , and therefore to subdue all such inclinations which are repugnant to his will. but here lies the main difficulty ; how to judge concerning this matter so , as to be able to determine whether we our selves be carnally or spiritually minded . which is a thing of so great consequence for us to know , that the peace of our minds , the true comfort of our lives , our due preparation for death , and a happy eternity , do all depend upon it . and yet that this is a real difficulty will appear from these considerations . ( . ) it requires a greater knowledge of our selves ( as to our spiritual condition ) than most persons in the world can pretend to . for it is not a slight and superficial view of our selves , not a transient , sudden reflection , nor a partial inquiry into our inward passions , and the course of our actions , which can make us capable of passing a true judgment upon the temper of our minds ; but there must be a true light , a serious and diligent search , frequent recollection , free and deliberate thoughts , long observation and due comparison of our selves with our selves and with the law of god , before we can form a just opinion as to the prevailing temper and disposition of our minds . it 's true , this is not necessary in all persons ; for some ( and i am afraid too many ) are so carnally minded , that the least reflection or consideration would make them see how bad their condition is . for , they have no true sense of god or religion at all ; they have no serious thoughts or apprehensions of divine and spiritual things ; this world they pretend to know something of , and have too great an esteem of the vanities and pleasures of it ; for these wholly take up their hearts and time ; and they have a savour and relish for any thing that tends to their greatness or honour or entertainment of their appetites or fancies here ; but if we speak to them of another world , of god and heaven and a spiritual disposition of soul ; either they look on us with amazement , as if they were insensible of such things ; or else with scorn and contempt , as if we went about to deceive them . alas ! they are too wise to be imposed upon by us ; and they have other things to mind ( i am sure not greater or weightier ) which take up all their time ; and so what through the business and the impertinencies of this world , their time passeth away as a tale that is told ; and as though it were a very pleasant tale , they are troubled only to think it will be so soon at an end. but these are not the persons , who require any such care to pass a right judgment upon them ; for they can pretend to nothing that is spiritual , as to the tempers and dispositions of their minds ; and therefore such as these must be set aside , for it is too apparent that they are only sensual and carnally minded . but as the papists distinguish of the body of christ , so may we of the carnal mind ; there is a gross and capernaitical sense ; and there is a more refined and ( if i may use the expression ) a more spiritual sense of it . for although it be a great absurdity in them to suppose that a meer body can be after the manner of a spirit ; yet it is not so to suppose a carnal mind to have a mixture of some spiritual qualities and dispositions in it . and this makes the difference so much harder to be perceived between the carnally and spiritually minded ; since there are the same faculties of perception , reasoning , and application in both ; and the same common principles of religion may be owned by both ; which may in reason be supposed to make some impression on the minds of the more ingenuous part of mankind , who are not given over to such a reprobate sense as the former were . now , how to distinguish between frequent good impressions on the mind , and an habitual temper and disposition , is not to easie to all who are concerned to distinguish them . and yet a person may be throughly convinced of his sins , and tremble at the apprehension of the justice and severity of god against them , he may have many checks and reluctancies of conscience while he goes on to commit them ; he may sigh and groan and lament under the wretchedness of his condition by his love of sin ; and yet may love his sins all the while more than god or heaven , or any thing in competition with them . the difference doth not lie in the nature or number of the impressions from without , but in the inward principle of action . a cistern may be full of water falling down from heaven , which may run as long as that holds which fell into it ; but a spring hath it rising up within , and so continues running when the other is spent . a carnal mind may have many spiritual convictions , and good motions and inclinations , but after a time they wear off and leave no lasting effect behind them ; but where there is a spring in the soul , there is a fresh and continual supply of such inclinations , as keep up a constant course of a spiritual life ; which our saviour calls rivers of living water . i confess it is hard to determine what a habit or principle abiding in our minds is ; yet the scripture doth evidently suppose such a thing , when it speaks of the new birth , and the new life , and the new creature , and the children of god ; all which are very insignificant terms , if there be not under them something answerable to the first principles of life ; and if there be not a divine spirit dwelling and acting in the souls of good men , and raising them up above carnal and sensual objects to things divine and spiritual , and carrying them through the passage of this world so as to prepare them for a better . but yet there may be many things which carry some resemblance to this principle within , which come not up to it . there may be such principles of education and good manners , such awakenings of conscience , such a strength of natural reason and common ingenuity , as may carry one on to do some very good things , and yet he may fall short of having a true principle of spiritual life in him . but then , there must be another principle within , which contradicts this , and prevails over it , and carries him on to the love of sin , which proves too strong for the love of god and the due regard to spiritual things . the result of this discourse is , since the carnal mind is not to be taken meerly for such a one which stands out in opposition to the gospel , nor for such a one which is insensible of spiritual things ; but such as may consist with a common profession of religion , and have the same convictions and good impressions which others have ; it doth require a more than ordinary acquaintance with our selves to be able to judge aright , whether the temper of our minds be carnal or spiritual . . but this is not all ; for , since there is so great a mixture of good and evil in the better sort of mankind , there is required not barely knowledge of our selves , but a good judgment too to adjust the proportions of good and evil in particular persons , so as to be able to judge whether we are carnally or spiritually minded . for , as those who are carnal , while they follow their carnal inclinations , may have many inward strugglings by spiritual convictions ; so those who are spiritually minded may meet with many combats from the flesh , which may be troublesome , where it cannot prevail . but there is a great difference between the spirit struggling against the flesh in the carnally minded , and the flesh struggling against the spirit in those who are spiritually minded . for , where there is no perfect victory , there will be some opposition ; and the best have so many failings to complain of in this world ; so many infirmities and defects in their good actions ; so many passions not brought into their due order ; so many omissions of personal and relative duties ; such variety of tempers and weakness of resolution ; such coldness in devotion and unreasonable dejections of mind ; so many unaccountable fears and such dreadfull apprehensions of death and the consequences of it ; that these things must make great abatements as to such as are truly spiritually minded . but by all these things the difficulty still increaseth , and therefore it is time to come to the resolution of it ; and that will be by shewing that the difference between the carnal and spiritual mind lies in these three things : . in the deliberate judgment and choice . . in the prevailing interest . . in the constant rule and measure of actions . . in the deliberate judgment and choice . for the main difference as to the carnal and spiritual mind , lies in the different end which is aimed at by them . where the chief end is the pleasing our selves , and the enjoying of any thing as our happiness under the supream good , whatever thoughts and intentions we may at some times have , to repent of our sins , and turn our souls from the love of sin to the love of god , as long as we continue pursuing a wrong end , we have too great reason to conclude our minds to be yet carnal and sold under sin . for while the apostle represents himself so , he tells us he had his conscience throughly awakened with the sense of his sins , even of those which the world is least apt to be sensible of , inward and secret sins ; he was not only convinced of the excellency and purity of the law , but had some pleasure and satisfaction in it ; he had some hearty desires to be rid of his beloved sins ; but yet they were too hard for him , he sighed and lamented under his deplorable condition ; but 'till the grace of god came to set him free , he was in a miserable and hopeless state. but how is it , that the grace of god thus refines and purifies the minds of men , so as of carnal to make them spiritual , when the same passions and inclinations remain ? a change there must be , and that real and spiritual , and therefore in our best faculties , viz. our understandings and our wills ; not by a revelation of new objects to the mind , nor by offering any force upon the will ; but by fixing the judgment of the mind and the choice of the will upon the best and most desirable object , which is god himself , as the supreme good. the turn of the soul which makes one spiritually minded , must not be only from gross and sensual inclinations , but from every other kind of good , which stands in competition with the supreme . a truly spiritual mind is one that is possessed with the love of god above all , and that values other things , as they tend to the enjoyment of him. god must be the only center of his hopes and designs ; for in him alone his true happiness consists : as the psalmist expresses it ; whom have i in heaven but thee ? and there is none upon earth i desire besides thee . whatever falls short of this , may agree to a carnal mind ; but a carnal mind can never love god as he ought to be loved ; not with a supreme transcendent degree of love , which is alone proper and suitable to him . all other kind of love is beneath his infinite goodness and perfections ; and to love him as we do his creatures , is to do him the greatest dishonour , for it levels their perfections , and supposes them to deserve the same degree of affection from us . but there may be many spiritual notions in mens minds about god and religion ; about mystical unions , and the participations of divine love ; man seeming spiritual raptures and ecstasies , and yet there may not be this spiritual mind . for the heats of enthusiasm may seem to be very spiritual , but are of another kind ; they are spiritual , as they are the effects of a great heating of the spirits by the force of a vehement imagination ; which hath been often accompanied with as vehement an inclination to sensual pleasures ; which shews the plain difference between an exalted fancy and a spiritual mind . a spiritual mind is such a one as is not only throughly convinced of the reality of spiritual things ; but of their excellency and desirableness , above any others that can be offer'd to our choice . it sees through all the glittering vanities of this world ; and soars above the most tempting and bewitching follies of mankind here : it frequently retires from the noise and confusion , the hurry and vexation of worldly affairs , that it may converse more freely with invisible objects ; not meerly by way of contemplation , but by raising the affections of the soul towards them , as the things which it hath chosen for its happiness . and this makes a ●onderfull alteration in the thoughts that these different tempers have concerning the same things . i do not deny but those who have carnal minds may have some raised and spiritual thoughts , but they are too cold and speculative ; they may have noble and refined speculations about the invisible world ; may be fully convinced that the things which are seen , could not be what they are , were it not for the things which are not seen ; and that the things which are not seen , are of incomparably greater value than those which are so much more admired , because they are seen . but we must not conclude , that because men do really believe spiritual things , therefore they are spiritually minded , ( for that were to suppose all to be saints who are not atheists ; ) but there must be such a due preference in our minds , of that invisible and eternal state , above all that is accounted great and desirable here , as gives a just denomination to one that he is spiritually minded ; i. e. that his mind and soul is fixed upon another world as his proper happiness , and other things are regarded and valued in subserviency to it . . a spiritual mind is discerned by the prevailing interest . for , as long as we are made up of flesh and spirit , there will and must be a combat between them : for the flesh lusteth against the spirit , and the spirit against the flesh ; and these are contrary the one to the other ; so that ye cannot do the things that ye would : and yet the same apostle soon after adds , they that are christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts ; the meaning is , that , in some particular instances and less remarkable cases , the flesh may sometimes be too hard for the spirit ; but in all notorious instances of the lusts of the flesh , which he reckons up ; and in the main issue of all lesser combats the spirit will be too hard for the flesh in those who are spiritually minded ; as the flesh will be too hard for the spirit at last in those who are carnally minded . if we look on them in the time of the combat , it will be hard to judge which is most likely to prevail ; but those may have the better in some particular skirmishes , who may lose very much in the state of the war ; a good man may be foiled by surprise or under some disadvantage , but he will recover himself , and , it may be , gain ground by his falls ; and a bad man may in some fits of devotion seem so spiritually minded , that one might be apt to think he were quite changed , 'till he returns to his former practices . if we had been to judge of ahab in the time of his humiliation ; and of david in the time of his impenitency after his sins of adultery and murther , we should have thought in common justice and charity , the latter had been the carnal , and the former the spiritual-minded man. but it was quite otherwise ; which shews that we are not to judge of mens spiritual condition by sudden and violent motions whether good or bad ; but by that interest which prevails with them in the whole course of their lives . to give a general character of a man from some violent passion against the tenour of his life , would be like drawing the picture of a man in a fit of an epilepsy , or a convulsive motion of his face . and to believe a man to be a good man , because he hath some good moods and passionate fits of devotion , is , as if we should take a piece of rotten wood for a true phosphorus , because it shines sometimes ; or suppose judas to be a saint , because he was so much in our saviour's company . the inward habits and dispositions of mens minds may be cover'd over and disguised a great while ; but a tempting occasion lays them open ; as no doubt judas did not get his habit of covetousness of a sudden , but it was still growing and ripening under a fair appearance ; and when the proper season came , the secret malignity brake forth ; and the temptation of thirty pieces of silver discover'd the baseness and hypocrisy of his heart . sometimes the vein of hypocrisy lies deep , and is cover'd over with such a fair outside , that no one can have reason to mistrust it , 'till it discovers it self , and then the corruption is found to loathsome , as to render ordinary sincerity suspicious . but this is a common fault , either to be too easily deceived , or too unreasonably mistrustfull ; there is no certainty in a deduction from particulars , but where the causes are equal and necessary . it is as absurd an inference that there is no such thing as a spiritual mind , because some who have pretended to it have been found carnal ; as that there is no such thing as common honesty among men , because some who have long born the name of honest men have been found great cheats and impostors . but when a predominant habit doth discover it self , the person must bear that title and denomination which it gives him . . a spiritual mind is known by the general conformity of actions to a divine and spiritual rule ; and so a carnal mind by following the bent and inclinations of the flesh. and there lies a great part of the difference ; for such who lay no restraint upon their natural inclinations must needs be carnally minded ; because the flesh , as s. chrysostom observes , is not taken , by s. paul , meerly for the body , but for the corrupt part of our selves , as consisting of soul and body . it is observed by cicero . de rep. that mankind come into the world in a very ill condition , with a body naked , frail and infirm , with a mind subject to troubles , dejected with fears , impatient of labour , prone to lust ; but in the midst of all this , there is a certain divine flame of wit and vnderstanding , which lies as it were busied and overwhelmed ; but with great care and industry may be so preserved and improved , as to command our appetites and govern our passions . but , alas ! how little doth the reason of mankind signifie to the greatest part of them ? it helps them to see their folly , and like a sea-light to a sinking ship in a dark night , makes those who are aboard , to behold their misery , without helping them out of it . if the frame of human nature be considered in it self , and by way of speculation , we have no cause to complain of it ; for as god hath given us inferiour faculties suitable to the constitution of our bodies , so he hath likewise superiour , which are capable of controlling and governing them . but when habit and custom is joyned with a vicious inclination , how little doth human reason signifie ? all the considerations of natural order , and decency , and regularity , and good example , are easily over-born by the strong propensities of a corrupt inclination ; which hurries men on to satisfie first their brutal appetites , and leaves consideration 'till afterwards . so that reason seems by such an after-game , rather given to torment , than to reform them . therefore the wise god hath superadded his own law to inforce that of reason by a greater authority ; that men may think themselves more concerned to take care of their actions , when they must give an account of them to one infinitely above them . but what can mankind do in such a wretched condition ? for the law of it self is but like a toyle to a wild beast ; the more he struggles , the more he is intangled ; so that he sees his misery by it , but not his remedy . but such is the goodness and mercy of god towards mankind , that he hath never refused to accept those , who have sincerely endeavour'd to do his will according to the measure of that assistance which he hath given them . thus we find characters of men in all ages , who were said to be righteous before god , just and upright and perfect men ; and yet some of the most eminent of these had remarkable failings , as noah , abraham and job ; yet they had extraordinary testimonies of god's approving their integrity and passing by those faults which were contrary to the general design and tenour of their lives . i confess we meet with two instances to the contrary in scripture , which deserve our consideration ; and those were of extraordinary persons too , eminent for their long and faithfull service of god ; and yet upon single faults committed by them , he was very severe with them . which may seem to take much off from this lenity and goodness of god towards such who have a general sincerity of mind towards him . but , if we more strictly consider these two cases , we shall find there was something very provoking in the circumstances of them , which made god so much more displeased with the committing them . for , they were sins committed by them , in their publick capacities , and about such things wherein the honour of god was more particularly concerned . the first is the case of moses , who was a great pattern of wisdom and meekness and faithfulness , for forty years together , in the conduct of a very froward people in the wilderness ; yet at last he happen'd to fail in some part of his duty , and god was so angry with him , that he would not hear his prayer for going into canaan , but he cut him off in the wilderness at last , as he did the people for their unbelief . but what was this sin of moses which made god so highly displeased with him ? if we read the passage as it is related in the history of the fact , it is not so easie to find it out . the people murmured for want of water , god upon moses his prayer commands him , to take his rod , and in the assembly of the people , to speak to the rock and the water should issue out . moses assembles the people , expostulates the matter with them , strikes the rock twice and the waters came . where is the great sin of moses all this while ? yet , he often repeats it , that god was angry with him for something done at that time . god himself saith , moses and aaron rebelled against him ; and that they did not sanctifie him before the people : the psalmist saith , they provoked his spirit , so that he spake unadvisedly with his lips. after all , the sin of moses was a mixture of anger and some kind of infidelity : for , the psalmist saith , he was highly provoked ; and god himself saith , they believed him not , to sanctifie him in the eye of the children of israel . the fault then seems to lie in this , that they were more concerned for their own honour than god's , and did not so clearly attribute the power of the miracle to god , but that the people might think they assumed it to themselves , as appears by their words to the people , hear now , ye rebels , must we fetch you water out of the rock ? which expression doth not give god the glory he expected from them ; and he is so tender in matters of his own honour , that he would suffer none to encroach upon it , no not his faithfull servants , but he made them smart for attempting it . the other case is that of david's numbering the people ; and he was a man after god's own heart , of great sincerity and courage and constancy in his service . yet of a sudden he took up a resolution that he would have all the people number'd , without any apparent reason for it . and although he was discouraged from the attempt by those about him , yet he would be obey'd . and what came of it ? truly , before the thing was compleated he grew very uneasie at what he had done , for it is said , his heart smote him after that he had numbred the people ; and david said to the lord , i have sinned greatly in what i have done . and yet in the book of chronicles it is said , that he finished it not , because wrath fell for it against israel . what was the cause of all this severity against david ? was it such an unpardonable sin for a king to understand the number of his people ? suppose it a failing , yet why should god be so angry for one such failing in him that had served god so sincerely as david had done ? there must be something extraordinary in this case ; for , god sometimes supposes the people to be number'd ; and in some cases he requires or allows it ; why then is he so displeased now at the doing it ? the best account i know of it , is this ; it was not a meer piece of vanity and ostentation in david , ( altho' that be displeasing to god , ) but it was a thing ( as designed by him ) which was generally look'd on as inconsistent with the fundamental promise made to abraham ; and so it is mention'd in the chronicles , why the numbering was not exactly taken , because the lord had said he would increase israel like the stars of the heavens . which seems to imply that there was a general notion received among the people , that since god promised to increase them beyond number , no one ought to go about to take the exact number of them . for , this must seem to savour of infidelity , and a contempt or mistrust of god's fundamental promise . but however upon such occasions god might use two of his most faithfull servants thus , yet we have no reason to question his readiness to pardon these and other their failings upon a sincere repentance , and to accept of their general care and endeavour to please him instead of a perfect obedience . but i have something farther to offer , for the clearing these two difficult cases , viz. that there is a difference to be observed between the rule of god's proceedings with particular persons , as to the general sincerity of their actings ; and the measure of god's political justice as to persons in publick capacities the reason is , because in the latter cases , god may justly have a regard , not meerly to the actions themselves , but to the circumstances of the people they are related to . thus moses , mentions it three several times . the lord was angry with me for your sakes ; and again , the lord was wroth with me for your sakes and would not hear me ; and the lord said unto me , let it suffice thee , speak no more to me of this matter . it seems he was so much concerned as to pray to god , and that earnestly , that he would give him leave to conduct the people into canaan : but god would not grant his request . but he tells the people that it was for their sakes that he was denied . furthermore the lord was angry with me for your sakes , and sware that i should not go over jordan , &c. so that the blow which was given to the head was for the sake of the whole body . and it is remarkable in the case of david , that before he fell into the sin of numbering the people , the anger of the lord was kindled against israel ; and he moved david against them to say , go number israel and judah . from whence it is evident , that the sins of a people may provoke god to let princes fall into such sins , which may give just occasion to god to punish both together . but this is a very different case from the method of god's dealings with particular persons with regard to their integrity , according to the terms of the covenant of grace . which is established on such foundations , that we need not give way to despondencies for the sake of such particular acts of severity . ii. i am now to consider the different consequences of these two , to be carnally minded is death , but to be spiritually minded is life and peace ; which , in short , is , that the advantage is far greater which comes to mankind by one than by the other . and that will appear by comparing them together , ( . ) as under equal circumstances . ( . ) as under unequal circumstances . . as under equal circumstances . and here we have two sorts of persons to consider . . those who have convictions of conscience going along with a carnal mind . such who look on the conditions of men in this world at a distance , and judge only by appearance , would be apt to think that those who do allow themselves all the liberties which a carnal mind doth incline them to , have very much the advantage of those who are under the restraints of a spiritual mind ; for they are bound to severe rules of vertue and mortification , to deny all vngodliness and worldly lusts , and to live soberly and righteously and godly in this present world ; and these are thought to be very hard things ; whereas such who are not under these difficulties , seem to lead the most pleasant and easie lives , enjoying themselves and being full of noise and confidence and appear to be all mirth and good humour . but there is another account to be taken of these things : if men could look within and see all the secret misgivings , the inward horrours of conscience , the impatience and dissatisfaction they have , when they seriously reflect on their evil courses , it would quite alter their apprehensions of these things , and make them conclude with the roman orator , that one day spent according to the rules of vertue were to be preferr'd before everlasting debaucheries . and he was no fool , no pedant , no mean and contemptible person , who said this , but a man of wit and sense , of quality and experience , who had opportunities and means enough to have pursued the most sensual and voluptuous course of life ; which yet we see out of judgment and choice he despised , and preferr'd a far shorter life according to the rules of vertue , before a vicious immortality . and yet , how short were the incouragements to a good life , and the dissuasives from sin among the best of them , in comparison of what we all know now by the gospel of christ ? they went no farther than meer natural reason and the common sense of mankind carried them ; but we profess to believe the wrath of god revealed from heaven against all unrighteousness and ungodliness of men ; and that there will be a great and terrible day , wherein men must receive according to their works , whether they be good or evil. and will not this dreadfull consideration awaken the drowsie and secure sinner and make him look about him betimes , while there is yet any hopes of mercy ? will he not become so wise at least , as to enter into the consideration of his ways , and to look back on the former course of his life , to examin and compare that with the law of god by which he must be judged ? and if we have but patience to do this , he will have no farther patience with himself , for being guilty of such unspeakable folly. he will abhorr himself for all his sensual and sinfull delights ; which will turn into the greatest bitterness and anguish to his soul ; he will lament his folly and wickedness with the deepest sorrow ; and take up sincere and firm resolutions to return no more to the practise of them . and if this be the result , as it ought to be , of all the distinguishing sinfull pleasures of a carnal mind , i leave it to the most impartial mind to resolve whether there will be the least advantage by pursuing them . . but we have too great reason to suppose that men may harden themselves to such a degree of wickedness , as to be insensible of the folly of it , and to mock at those who go about to reprove them for it . such as these are at ease , because they have no sense of their condition ; but so are those in a lethargy : is their case therefore to be envied ; or compared with those in health , although more sensible of pain and danger ? who seem to be better pleased at sometimes , and transported with their own imaginations than men in a frenzy ? and yet no man thinks their condition happier for it . there is a sort of moral frenzy which possesses some part of mankind , who , are not only extravagant in their actions , but assume such a degree of confidence in committing them , as though the wise men of all ages had been the only remarkable fools in it . but it is no such easie matter to run down the principles of vertue and religion , they have stood the shock of all the sarcasms and reproaches of former times ; and there is still nothing at the bottom of all the scorn and contempt that is cast upon them : but a carnal and profane temper of mind ; which may bear them up for a while , but it will be sure to end in everlasting confusion ; and then they will find what they were so unwilling to believe , that to be carnally minded is death . not a meer state of insensibility , but the worst kind of death ; a death of perpetual horrour and torment ; a death without the power of dying , and yet with a perpetual desire of it ; a death whose sting can never be taken out ; and whose terror is said to be as everlasting as the joys of heaven . and shall not the apprehension of such a death , as this , so dreadfull , so unavoidable , so insupportable , make the greatest sinners to tremble , and be confounded at the apprehension of it ? and , if once such thoughts break into their minds , farewell then to all the imaginary pleasure and satisfaction of a carnal mind ; for it must sink it into the confusion if not the despair of hell. ( . ) but i have hitherto represented the disadvantages , of one side ; but are there not such on the other too ? some are too apt to think a spiritual mind to be nothing but a disorder'd fancy , and melancholy imaginations of invisible things . if this were all , it were so far from being life and peace , that there could be no real satisfaction about it . but a spiritual mind is truly the most desirable thing we are capable of in this world. for , it is the best improvement of our minds , which are spiritual . it is , the purging and refining them from the dross and corruption which debased them . it is , the advancing them towards the divine nature , by a gradual participation of it . it is , the raising them above the carnal delights , and the sollicitous cares and perplexing fears of this world ; and fitting them for a perpetual conversation with divine and spiritual objects . and what then can be more agreeable to the best part of our selves here , than to have a mind so disengaged from this world and so fit for a better ? so that we may be content to take a view of the worst which can be supposed as to disadvantage here , which is , that good men may be under unequal circumstances as to their condition in this life ; that is , when the regarding another world more than this , may make their outward condition more uneasie here , than it might have been , if they had follow'd only the dictates of a carnal mind . there are two sorts of troubles we are to expect in this world , ( . ) such as we bring upon our selves by our own acts : ( . ) such as are common to all mankind : in both these the spiritual mind hath the advantage . ( . ) as to such which men bring upon themselves . let this be supposed ; as it ought to be , when god pleases among christians , who are to follow christ in taking up his cross : is there any thing in this , which overthrows the advantage of a spiritual mind above a carnal ? can a carnal mind secure men from pains and diseases , from losses and disappointments ? nay doth not the pursuit of carnal pleasures bring more troubles upon men in this life , than the case of persecution doth upon the best christians ? if the loathsome diseases , the reproachfull and untimely deaths , which of all things ought to be most avoided , by such who believe no life after this , be compared with the pains and martyrdoms of those who have suffer'd for their religion , these will appear to be far more eligible than the other , because the mind hath far greater satisfaction under them , and a certain expectation of an infinite reward to follow upon them . whereas the others can have no comfort in looking back on what they have done , or forward in what they are to expect . for they have destroy'd their own happiness and hasten'd that upon themselves which they account their only misery . ( . ) as to the common calamities of life , which none can prevent or avoid , the spiritual mind hath very much the advantage of the carnal ; for the one fills them with inward peace and satisfaction of mind , which of all things carry men best through the troubles of life ; being joyned with patience , humility , self-denial , and submission to the will of god ; which are all the genuine effects of a spiritual mind ; but a carnal mind is froward and impatient , uneasie to it self and to all about it , and this makes every pain and trouble to be much greater than it would have been ; like the ass in the fable : which lay down in the water with his burthen of wool and so made it heavier than before . there were two things the philosophical men of pleasure sought to comfort themselves by , under the unavoidable troubles of life ; which the spiritual mind hath far greater advantages than any of them had , as to both of them ; and these are reflection and expectation . ( . ) reflection . when epicurus was in his last agonies under the stone , what a miserable way was it for him to go about to comfort himself , by reflecting upon his atoms and his maxims , his imaginary notion of the happiness of life consisting in pleasure , when his life was so near being ended by excessive pain ? but a good man that hath sincerely endeavour'd to serve god in his generation , and to do all the good he could , and to promote the interests of religion and vertue in the world , may in the midst of many failings and infirmities , look back with comfort on the course of his former life , and by the peace of a good conscience may injoy inward satisfaction , under such pains and distempers , which make life uneasie and death more welcome , as it is a passage to a far better state. and that is the next thing . ( . ) expectation . it was a sorrowfull expectation which epicurus supported himself with , when he was in the prospect of death ; which was no more , than that the subtle atoms which made up his soul , would soon be scatter'd and dispersed , he knew not where , and then he should be , as if he had never been . but what comfort is there in such a dissolution ? men that have deserved it , may heartily wish it ; , but they have deserved something worse , and that they must expect . for , the just and holy god , will certainly call them to an account for all their vices and follies ; and it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living god ; and what a miserable case are those in , who have nothing to look for but judgment and fiery indignation , which shall consume the adversaries of god and religion ? but o the blessed hope and joyfull expectation that attends a spiritual mind ! especially when it is enliven'd and assisted by the powerfull influences of divine grace . for without that , even good men may be liable to some dejections and fears as to another world , from the vastness of the change , the sense of their failings , the weakness of their minds , and mistrust of their own fitness for heaven ; but so great is the goodness and mercy of god towards them that sincerely love and fear him , that he always makes their passage safe , though it be not so triumphant . and although the valley of the shadow of death may seem gloomy and uncomfortable at a distance ; yet when god is pleased to conduct his servants through it , he makes it a happy passage into a state of a glorious immortality and everlasting life and peace . to which god , &c. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e rom. . . , . . . . . . . . . ver. . joh. . . joh. . , . . . rom. . , . cor. . . joh. . , . rom. . , , . . . . psal. . . gal. . . . chrysost. in gal. . . aug. c. julian . l. . c. . gen. . . . . job . , , . psal. . deut. . , . numb . . , . . . . deut. . . . . num. . psal. . . num. . ver . . sam . . chr. . . exod. . . . . num. . , . sam. . . sam. . . chr. . . deut. . . . . . . sam. . . est autem unus dies benè & ex praeceptis tuis actus peccanti immortalitati anteferendus . cicer. tuss . qu. l. . c. . rom. . . . , . . . . cor. . , . epicurus hermacho . v. ciceron . de finibus , l. . c. . heb. . . . a vindication of the answer to some late papers concerning the unity and authority of the catholic church, and the reformation of the church of england. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a vindication of the answer to some late papers concerning the unity and authority of the catholic church, and the reformation of the church of england. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], [i.e. ], [ ] p. printed for richard chiswell ..., london : mdclxxxvii [ ] attributed to stillingfleet by wing and nuc pre- imprints. advertisement: p. [ ]-[ ] at end. errata: p. . numerous errors in paging. imperfect: stained, with print show-through. reproduction of original in the huntington library. includes bibliographical references. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -- apologetic works. catholic church -- controversial literature. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a vindication of the answer to some late papers concerning the unity and authority of the catholick church , and the reformation of the church of england . london , printed for richard chismell , at the rose and crown in s. paul's church-yard , mdclxxxvii . a vindication of the answer to some late papers , &c. it was so tempting a piece of honour , to appear as the champion of the royal papers , that i rather wonder that no more , than that these , have shewed themselves to the world , under so inviting a character . which seems to have betray'd them into more than usual security ; presuming , i suppose , that they are to be looked on , as a sort of heralds in controversis , whose bearing the royal arms , will keep them from being touched themselves , though they bid defiance to others . but where truth lies at stake , every one hath a right to put in for it ; and whose game soever any person plays , those ought to carry it who have the best cards to shew : i mean , that in debates of this nature and consequence , other considerations ought to be so far laid aside , that the strongest reason should prevail . but lest i be again thought to have a mind to flourish before i offer to pass ; as the champion speaks in his proper language ; i shall apply my self to the matter before us . only taking notice that i am now glad to enter the lists upon even ground . for although i thought i behaved my self with due respect and decency before , yet i perceive the measure of those things is so nice and arbitrary , that it is very hard to escape censures , where the distance is so great . but those who live in the country may mean and intend as well to their prince , as those who live at court , though they do not make so fine legs , nor are of so pleasing an address . the plain truth is ; controversie is quite another thing from courtship and poetry . it is like a trial at law , which ought to depend on evidence and proof , though the king himself be concerned in it . and as we must give honour to whom honour , so truth to whom truth is due : and this without respect of persons ; it being a case long since decided , that truth is greater than the king. if i thought there were no such thing in the world as true religion , and that the priests of all religions are alike , i might have been as nimble a convert , and as early a defender of the royal papers , as any one of these champions . for why should not one who believes no religion , declare for any ? but since i do verily believe not only that there is such a thing as true religion , but that it is only to be found in the books of holy scripture , i have reason to enquire after the best means of understanding the sense of those books , and thereby , if it may be , to put an end to the controversies of christendom . this was the noble design of the two royal papers ; which are written with far greater strenght , and spirit , and closeness , than these which are published in defence of them . but notwithstanding all their fair appearance , i could not be convinced by the reason contained in them , ( and much less by the defence of them ) which i endeavour'd to represent as far as i could judge , with modesty and civility . but if i have offended in any thing against the strict rules of good manners , i hope i may be the more easily forgiven , since their casuists allow involuntary faults to be in their own nature venial . the method proposed by the paper for ending controversies , was by finding out a principle for doing it , as visible as that the scripture is in print . this i could no● but extreamly approve , as a very satisfactory method of proceeding ; and the consequence i said would be , that all men of sense would soon give over disputing ; for none who dare to believe what they see , can call that in question . the author of the r●ply saith , i mistook the meaning of the words , which he saith was this , that what ever motives render it visible that a book in print is scripture , i. e. the word of god , the same or other motives are as powerful to render this other truth as visible , that none can be that church , but that which is called the roman-catholick church . the desender saith , the church is more visible than scripture , because the scripture is seen by the church ; for which he brings s. augustin 's authority . and if by saying that the scripture is in print , be understood a tking out of question ; then he denies it to be visible that the scripture , is in print ; because many men do call scripture in question at this day ; and to question whether the book in print be scripture , is manifestly to question whether scripture be in print . the words of the royal paper are plain , but these interpretations of them so forced and unnatural , that there needs no other confutation of them , but to compare their confused comment with the text. it is as visible , as that the scripture is in print ; that is , it is a thing evident to sense ; for so it is that the book called the scripture or the bible is in print . now what is it which is affirmed in the paper to be thus evident ? viz. this proposition , that none can be that one church which christ has here on earth , but that which is called the roman catholick church . but if it be certain ( as i doubt not to make it appear ) that what is called the roman-catholick church , is but a part of that one church which christ has here on earth , then the plain result of this proposition must be , that it is a thing evident to sense that a part is the whole . now this looked so oddly , that these gentlemen were resolved that this should not be the sense of the plain words ; and therefore have endeavoured to put another sense , ( if it may be called so ) upon them . and if their church can but interpret scripture at this rate , we are in a hopeful way to have a speedy and happy end of controversies . as to the consequence i drew from hence , that if controversies could be determined by a principle as visible as that scripture is in print , all men of sense would soon give over disputing , for none who dare believe what they see would call that in question ; one saith , the sooner the hetter . so say i too , upon good grounds . but what would then become of the noble science of controversie ? the other saith , that catholicks and protestants are both men of sense , and yet they dispute about the scripture which is in print . and what then ? this is to shew that the scriptures being in print is one thing , and the authority of the scripture is another . the one is a common object of sense in which all are agreed ; the other is liable to many disputes , and therefore could not be meant in the papers . but they have a notable cavil against mens believing what they see , because faith is of things not seen . this cavil had been as good against our blessed saviour , when he said to thomas , because thou hast seen , thou hast believed . i hope upon second thoughts , they will not tell him , that this was improperly spoken , and not like a schoolman . call it what you will , the single question is , whether your church will allow us to judge of things according to the plain evidence of sense ? one saith , it is impossible that any man should be commanded not to believe what he sees . believing here is the judgment of the mind upon the representation of sense ; and will he secure us that the church can never require us to judge otherwise than according to the evidence of sense ? i wish he would make his words good , for i assure him he would remove a terrible block out of our way . my senses plainly tell me , what i see and feel and taste is as much bread after consecration as it was before ; how then comes it to pass that my judgment that it was bread before , was very good ; but although there be the very same evidence afterwards , without the least alteration to sense , yet then i am to judge just contrary , i. e. that it is not bread , which i see and feel and taste just as i did before ? but he saith , what is seen is only the form , shape and sigure of bread and wine , and that they believe to be there . but alas ! this doth not reach to the point . for the question is not about external appearances , but about the iudgment of the mind upon the evidence of sense . i will make this matter plainer , that they may know where the difficulty lies . when christ's body appeared to the disciples after his resurrection , there was no dispute among them concerning the form , shape and figure of his body , but the doubt was , whether from these they were to conclude that it was christ's real body or not ? if not , they could not believe from the evidence of sense that christ's body was risen from the dead ; if they were , let them tell us how christ's body comes to be so much changed and to lose those essential properties of a body which it once had and was judged by ; and farther , what ground there is for us now not to allow that judgment of sense which christ himself appealed to , after the institution of the sacrament ? for if christ had therein declared that our senses are not to be our rule of judging concerning his body ; he would certainly not have appealed so soon after to the senses of his disciples concerning that very body ; and neither he nor his disciples have given the least intimation , that what we see and feel to be one body , we must believe to be quite another which we can neither see nor feel . did not two angels appear to lot in the figure and shapes of men ; and the holy ghost descend in the form of a dove ? and were they who saw them , to believe according to the evidence of sense ? i answer , that there is a great deal of difference to be made between invisible powers appearing under bodily shapes , and a natural , visible , palpable extended body losing the properties of a body abd becoming invisible , impalpable and indivisible ; and withal there is a great difference , between spiritual powers uniting the real particles of matter into a body , and the making the form , figure , and shape of a real body to be where there is no substance of a body . we do not pretend to judge by our senses of invisible substances under outward appearances ; but of the truth of a bodily substance by all the appearances of a body , under all the circumstances necessary for the right judgment of sense . the other saith , he knows of no church which allows not people to believe all they see . may we then believe that to be still bread which we see to be so ? no , he saith , the what of a thing is not the object of sense . i perceive then our senses are very impertinent things ; and only give an account of the circumstances and not of the substances of things . but i pray did not the disciples perceive the what of christ's body by their senses ? how do we know the what of any bodily substance but by them ? it is meer collusion to say our senses do not judge of substances ; for our bare senses judge of nothing , but are the means of conveying the impressions or representations inward , whereby our minds do pa●s judgment upon things . and either we cannot know the substance of any thing sensible , or we must know the what of it ( as he speaks , ) by our senses . we now come to the main business ; which for the clearer proceeding i shall put under three distinct heads . i. concerning the unity of the catholick church . ii. concerning the authority of it . iii. concerning the reformation of the church of england . i. of the unity of the catholick church . and here the point to be discussed , is , viz. whether that which is called the roman-catholick church , be that one church which christ has here on earth ? ( . ) the first thing i objected against it was , that a part cannot be the whole ; but that which is called the roman-catholick church is but a part ; and therefore it cannot be the one catholick church of christ here on earth . here , to prevent cavilling , i must declare that i meant not the roman diocese or province , but all the churches which live in communion with and subjection to the bishop of rome as head of the church ; and look on it as necessary to salvation so to do . and this i still assert to be but a part of the catholick church and a corrupt one too . the author of the defence saith , all this riddle of part and whole comes from my inadvertence . how so ? because i confound the roman diocese with the roman-catholick church . no , i assure him i did take it in their own sense , for all that embrace the matters of faith which are received in the roman communion . and he need not fear my doing otherwise ; for i intend to discourse of no other church but this ; and this i deny , as so taken , to be the one catholick church . doth not catholic signifie all the parts ? i am sure it ought to do so ; but i say it doth not , when roman is joyned to catholick ; for then it excludes all those from being parts of the catholic church , which do not joyn in the roman communion ; and this i say is unreasonable . and here i expected some proof in so material a point ; but there is not a word farther , than that catholic comprehends all ; but i say again , roman catholic excludes all that are not in its communion . as suppose any one should say the german ocean is the whole sea ; and to prove it , should reason as this gentlemen doth ; ocean is the whole sea , is it not ? and is it the less the ocean , because german is added to it ? no ; the ocean is just as large as ever it was ; but the adding german to it restrains the sense of ocean to it within certain bounds ; and excludes many parts of the great ocean , which are without those limits . just so it is in adding roman to catholic ; catholic alone comprehends all the parts of the church , but roman added to it confines the sense of it to those who embrace the faith received in the roman communion ; and this excludes all other parts of the catholic church : and so makes a part to be the whole . ( . ) i objected farther , that if this had been the catholic church meant in the creeds , this limitation ought to have been expressed in the creeds , and put to persons to be baptized ; which being never done in the roman church it self , i thence inferr'd that it did not believe it self to be the one catholic church , which we profess to believe in the creeds . here the author of the reply answers , that catholic and roman catholic were in the language of antiquity one and the same thing ; and this point being never called in question in the time when the creeds were published , there was no occasion to put roman into the creeds ; no more than of putting in consubstantial with the father till it was denied . this were a substantial way of answering the difficulty , if it would in any measure hold . but i shall now prove just the contrary to have been the sense of authority by plain and undeniable instances in matters of fact , in most of the ages of the christian church ; from the very next to the apostolical , down to the council of trent . to which i shall only premise this , which i think no roman catholic will deny me , viz. that the roman catholic church doth imply obedience to the bishop of rome as supream visible head of the church under christ. for bellarmin and others , make not only faith and sacraments necessary to the being of the church , but submission to l●wful pastors , and especially to the pope as christ's only vicar upon earth ; and he placeth the essential unity of the catholic church in the conjunction of the members , under christ and h●s vicar , as head of the church . and from hence he excludes schismaticks out of the catholic church , though they have unity of faith and sacraments and hope and spirit . and the roman catechism makes union with the pope as visible head of the church necessary to the unity of the catholi● church . and the proofs i bring shall not be from short or doubtful sentences , but from remarkable passages and notorious acts of the church . in the first age of the church the name catholic was as little known , as the authority of the roman church ; it not being once found in the apostolical writings ; for the inscriptions of the catholic epistles are of latter times . and if they were allowed to be apostolical , they would be far from proving any thing to this purpose , since the roman church is never mentioned in these epistles , unless under the name of babylon ; and i suppose they would not like the title of the catholic babylonish church . but in all the directions of the apostles concerning unity of faith , there is not one which gives the least intimation , that the roman church in any sense was to be the rule or standard of faith or communion . in the second age we find two remarkable instances that the communion of the catholic church was not to be taken from conjunction with the bishop of rome as head of it . the first is from the bishop of rome's approving the prophecies of montanus , prisca and maximilla . this would hardly appear credible , if tertullian had not expresly affirmed it ; and he farther saith that had it not been for praxeas a heretick , he had taken them into the communion of the catholic church ; and he prevailed with him to revoke his communicatory letters already past . what a case had the catholic church been in at this time , if the bishop of rome had been look'd on as the centre of catholic communion , and if he had not been better informed by praxeas a heretick ? the second in the same age is when victor took upon him to excommunicate the eastern bishops for not celebrating easter at the same time they did at rome . if now the eastern bishops did own the roman-catholic and catholic church to be the same , they must shew it at such a time by their regard to the pope's sentence as head of the catholic church : but they owned no such authority he had over them ; and instead of it polycrates bishop of ephesus , with a council of bishops joyning with him about a. d. wrote a smart epistle to victor , wherein they let him know they would go on in their way , notwithstanding his threats , and that it was better to obey god than man. from whence it is observable , that they followed their own judgment against the pope's ; and that they believed the pope required things of them so contrary to the will of god , that they resolved to disobey him . and his requiring their compliance was no argument of his authority , but of his us●rpation . in the third age happen'd a famous contest between stephen bishop of rome , and the eastern and african bishops , about re-baptizing hereticks . i meddle not now with the controversie it self , but with the sense of those bishops upon occasion of it as to the roman-catholic church . the bishop of rome did at least threaten to excommunicate the african bishops . and if firmilian may be believed , he did actually excommunicate the asian bishops how did these primitive bishops behave themselves under this sentence ? they charge stephen with insolence , folly , contempt of his brethren , and breaking the peace of the catholic church ; and cutting himself off from the unity of it . the words are , abscindere se à charitatis unitate , & alienum se per omnia fratribus facere . now i desire to know , whether these bishops believed the necessary conjunction of roman and catholic together ? and whether bishop of rome were thought to be the centre of communion in the catholic church ? it is plain , they made him the cause of the schism , and thought themselves never the less in the catholic church for being out of the roman communion . in the fourth age the government and subordination of the catholic church was established in the council of nice according to ancient custom ; but we read not a word of the roman catholic church there ; or any priviledge or authority the bishop of rome had , but within his own province , and such as the bishops of antioch and alexandria had in theirs . and when the bishop of rome in that age interposed to restore some bishops cast out of communion by the eastern bishops , they declared against it as a violation of the rules of the catholic church ; and this became the occasion of the first breach between the eastern and western churches . in the same age liberius , bishop of rome , joyned with the eastern bishops in casting athanasius out of the catholic church , and subscribed the arian confession of faith ; as both hilary and s ierome witness ; and it appears from his seventh epistle , and the old lesson in the roman breviary , kal. sept. which hath been since expunged for telling tales in the fifth age happened a greater breach ●etween the bishops of rome and the eastern churches for acacius the bishop of constantinople , not complying with what the bishops of rome desired from him , was solemnly excommunicated by fe●● iii. but notwithstanding this , the emperour and eastern bishops continued still in his communion ; and they complained that the proceedings against him were against the rules of the church , and savoured of great pride , as appears by the epistles of gel●sius , who succeeded felix . and upon this a notorious sc●● happened , which the eastern churches charged the church of rome with ; and believed themselves to be still in the communion o● the catholic church . in the sixth age vigilius bishop of rome gives an undeniable evidence of the difference between communion with the catholic church and with the bishop of rome . when he went to constantinople , upon iustinian's summons , about the three chapters , not only the church of rome , but that of africa , sardinia , istria , i●●yricum and others , earnestly entreated him not to consent to the condemning them ; accordingly when he came to constantinople he was so warm and zealous in the cause , that he forthwith excommunicates the patriarch and his adherents ; among whom the empress her self was one : but soon after he was so much mollified , that he not only took off his sentence , but privately agreed with the emperour to condemn the three chapters . which was discovered to the western churches by rusticus and sebasti●nus , who were then with him : whereupon they cried out upon him for prevaricating and betraying the council of chalcedon ; and the african bishops not only condemned his judgment , but excommunicated him and all that consented to it ; and so did the bishops of illyricum . which schism continued many years , as appears by the epistles of pelagius ii. and gregory . vigilius finding how the matter was resented in the western churches , yields to a general council ; which the emperour summon'd at constantinople ; in the mean time he publishes an edict against the three chapters . vigilius to recover his credit with the western bishops , denounces excommunication against those that yielded to it ; but the greeks despised his censure , and immediately went to celebrate divine offices . when the council sate he refused to come ; which they regarded not , but went on and condemned the three chapters without him ; but when the council was ended he complied with it ; as now appears from the authentic acts lately published . let any man now judge , whether communion with the bishop of rome were then looked on a● a necessary condition of being in the catholic church , either by the eastern or western churches . in the seventh age there is a necessity to make a distinction between the communion with the bishop of rome , and with the catholic church ; because honorius then bishop of rome is condemned by the sixth general council , for contradicting the apostolical doctrine , and the definitions of councils , and for following the false doctrines of hereticks . and the same judgment is confirmed by the seventh and eighth councils , which are received for general in the church of rome . and leo i● . in his epistle to the emperour , wherein he confirms the sixth council , expresly anathematizes his predecessor honorius for no less tha● betraying the catholic faith. and in the profession of faith made by every new bishop of rome ( extant in the diurnus ) honorius is anathematized by name . was it then the roman catholic church which joyned in communion with honorius ? in the eighth age the bishop of rome approved the second council of nice ; but notwithstanding the western churches stifly opposed it , as contrary to faith ; which they could not have done , if at that time the pope had been looked on as the head and center of catholic communion . in the ninth age happened the great breach between the two patriarchs of rome and constantinople , which in consequence engaged the eastern and western churches against each other . and although the restoring of photius after the death of ignatius seemed to put an end to it ; yet the difference increased chie●ly upon two points , that of iurisdiction and the addition to the creed , made by the western church , which the council under photius did anathematize ; and the whole greek church , with the four patriarchs , joyned in it ; as arguing imperfection in the creed and the tradition of their fore-fathers . and upon these two points this schism began ; although photius did charge the latin church with other things ; which made nicolaus i. to employ the best pens they had to defend the latins against the greeks . one of which was ratramnus lately ●ublished ; who lived at that time ; and it is observable in him , that he supposes both to be still parts of the catholic church ; and he often distinguishes the latin church or the whole roman communion , from the catholic church ; which he saith , was extended from the east to the west , from the north to the south . in the eleventh age this schism brake forth with greater violence , in the time of leo ix . and michael cerularius patriarch of constantinople . to the former occasions of difference , a new one was added , never mention'd in photius his time , viz. the use of unleavened bread in the sacrament , by the latin church . of this , with other things , michael cerularius complained ; the pope sends three nuntio's to constantinople , who behaved themselves rudely and insolently towards the patriarch ; as he shews in his epistles to the patriarch of antioch , published lately by co●elerius ; there he declares he would not treat with them about religion without the other patriarchs ; upon which they pronounced them obstinate , and proceeded to excommunicate the whole greek church for not complying with them . and the patriarch returned the kindness and anathematized them . the form of the anathema against the greeks is printed with humbertus ; and the short of it is , whosoever contradicts the roman see is to be excluded catholic communion , and be made anathema maranatha . this was plain dealing ; but it was the eleventh age before things came to this height . and yet in that very anathema one of the reasons assigned , was because the greeks like the donatists con●●ned the catholic church to themselves . in the thirteenth age innocent iii. writes to the greek emperour to bring the greeks back to the unity of the church ; the patriarch of constantinople writes back again to know what he meant by it , and how he could call the roman church , the one catholic church , since christians made but one flock under their several pastors , christ himself being head over all . the pope answers , the church is called catholic two ways . . as it consists of all particular churches , and so he grants the roman church is not the catholic church , but a part of it , though the chief . . as it holds under it all particular churches ; and so , he saith , the roman church only is the catholic church . and so he makes owning the roman church to be mother and mistress of all churches , as he there saith , to be a necessary condition of catholic communion . and thus it becomes the roman catholic church . but this was a very new notion of the catholic church , which in the fathers of the church was taken in one of these two senses . . with respect to faith ; and so catholic was the same with sound and of a right faith , in opposition to the notorious heresies of the first ages . so it was used by ig●●tius , against the heresies of that time , which denied iesus to be christ ; therefore , saith he , whereever christ iesus is , there is the catholic church . after him polycarp is called by the church of sm●rna , bishop of the catholic church in smyrna . so the council of antioch speaking of the deposition of pa●lus samosatenus say , they must set another bishop over the catholic church there . ●lemens alexandrinus saith , the catholic church is ancienter than heresies ; that it hath the unity of the faith , and subsists only in the truth . pacianus observes , that in those ages the hereticks went by other names , but the sound christians were known by the name of catholics , which had been of very ancient us● in the church , though not found in scripture ; as fulgenti●s likewise observes . but lactantius takes notice that the hereticks had gotten the trick of using that name ; and then his rule is to discern the true catholic church by the true religion . for he not only saith before , that the catholic church is to be known by the true worship of god ; but when he comes to lay down the notes of the true church , the first of them is religion . so i find in an old lactantius , printed at rome , a. d. . but , for what reason i know not , it is le●t out in the latte●● editions . in the conference between the donatists and the catholic bishops , both sides challenged the name of catholics to themselves ; and the roman judge determined , it should belong to them who were found to have truth on their side . pope innocent iii. in a council at rome declares , that all the churches in the world are called one from the unity of the catholic faith. and in the canon before , he mentions the roman church as distinct from the catholic , but comprehended under it while it adheres to the catholic faith. which was not then understood to be what the roman church declares to be so ; but what was universally received in the church from the apostles times , and was delivered in the creeds to the persons to be admitted by baptism into the catholic church . . with respect to persons and places . and so catholic was first taken in opposition to the iewish confinement of salvation to themselves ; and of gods appointed worship to one temple . so ignatius faith , the ●hurch is one body , made up of jews and gentiles . and the church of smyrna writes to all the members of the catholic church in all places : and the council of antioch writes to the whole catholic church under heaven . s. cyril saith , the church is called catholic from its universal spreading and teaching the whole doctrine of christ to all sorts of persons . athanasius saith , it is called catholic , because it is dispersed over the world. theophylact saith , the catholic church is a body made up of all ●hurches , whereof christ is the head. and the african bishops from the first beginning of the dispute with the donatists laid great weight upon this , that the catholic church was to be taken in its largest extent ; or else the promises could not be fulfilled ; as may be seen in optatus , who saith , the church is called catholic , not only from its having the true faith , but from its being every where dispersed . and s. augustine hath written whole books to prove it . in the conference with the donatists , the catholic bishops , and especially s. augustin , plead , that they are called catholics because they hold communion with the whole world of christians ; and not with th●se only of a particular title or denomination . for therein they made the schism of the donatists consist ; not barely in a causeless separation ; but in confining the catholic church to themselves , who at best were but a part of it . and because the notion which innocent iii. gives , is liable to the same charge , it cannot be excused from the same guilt . thus we have found the author of this notion of the roman catholic church , viz. for such as own the supremacy of the church of rome , as he explains it more fully in the same epistle . but yet this notion of the catholic church was not uniniversally received after innocent iii. for in the fifteenth age , in the council of florence , cardinal bessarion disputing with the greeks about the authority of the roman church , in making an addition to the creed , saith , that how great soever the power of the roman church be , he grants it is less than that of a general council , or the catholic church . from whence it follows , that the notion of the catholic church cannot be taken from owning the roman church to be mistress of all churches ; for then the catholic church is bound to submit to the decrees of the roman church about matters of faith. in the beginning of the same age the council of ●onstance met , and in the fourth session declared , that a general ouncil represents the catholic church , and hath its power immediately from christ ; and that in matters of faith , unity of the ●hurch , and reformation , all persons , even popes ●hemselves are bound to submit to it . and truly it was but necessary for them to take off from the popes authority in matters of faith , since they charge ioh. xxiii . with no less than frequent and pertinacious denying the immortality of the soul. was not this man fit to be an infallible head of the catholic church , and the true center of christian communion ? bellarmin saith , this article was not proved , but only commonly believed , because of the dissoluteness of his life . but this is but a poor defence ; since this article stands upon record against him in all the editions of the council of constance ; which i have compared ; even that at rome , said to be collated with manuscripts . and why should so scandalous an article be suffered to stand , unless there were such a consent of copies that it could not for shame be removed ? the doctrine of the council of constance was confirmed by the council of basil , and is to this day maintained by the clergy of france , as appears by their declaration made a. d. . from whence it follows , that the church is not called catholic from relation to the roman church ; but to the whole body of christians : and that the unity of it , is not to be taken from the respect it bears to an external visible head which may sail , but to christ as the essential head of the church . this is the express doctrine of the cardinal de alliaco , ioh. major , almain , gerson and many others ; and follows from the decree of the council of constance . thus i have briefly deduced the sense of the christian church in this matter from the apostolical times ; and that not meerly from the sayings of particular men ; but from publick , solemn , and undoubted acts of the church . which i have the rather done , because the defender saith , we have no antiquity on our sido in this ●ause , but as much as since luther . i think i have produced a little more , and too much for him to answer . it is time now to consider what proof the replier brings , that catholic and roman-catholic in the sense of antiquity were one and the same thing . he produces the testimonies of tertullian and cyprian , wherein the church of rome is called the catholic church . who doubts that in those days there was a catholic church at rome ? for every particular church which agreed in the catholic faith was then called the catholic church of such a place . and innumerable instances of this kind may be gathered out of antiquity ; both as to the city of rome , and other cities as well as that ; and surely they were not all catholic churches in his sense ; when he agrees there is but one catholic church ; nay more , even parochial churches were called catholic , as he may find in ●otelerius . s ambrose's testimony signifies no more , than that satyrus coming into a place suspected for the luciferian schism , asked if the bishop joyned with the catholic bishops , i. e. with the roman church . which is no more than whether he agreed with his own church ; for satyrus was a roman born . but this would prove any other church to be the one catholic church altogether as well as the roman . the patriarch of constantinople writes to hormisda , that he would not hereafter recite in the diptychs the names of those who were excommunicated by the apostolical see. and what follows ? but he saith , they were sever'd from the communion of the catholic church . and so were those excommunicated by the patriarch of constantinople . but the words are , who do not in all things consent with the see apostolic ; but the plain meaning is , of those who were cast out of communion , for the words are too , sequestrates à communione ecclesiae catholicae . and doth this prove the roman church to have any more relation to the catholic , than the church of the meanest bishop in the catholic church ? as to the calling of catholics romanists by the gothic arians ; that relates to the roman empire , and not to the roman church . and now let any impartial reader judge whether the sense of antiquity be not admirably cleared by these passages , as to the making out roman and catholic to be the same . but to proceed . ( . ) i said farther , that if the roman church believed it self to be the catholick church , it must void the baptism of those who are out of its communion ; but since baptism doth enter persons into the catholic church , by its own confession , the catholic church which is owned in the creeds , must be of larger extent than the roman . in answer to this , they both tell me this point hath been over-ruled long ago by the catholic church ; the baptism of hereticks being allowed to be good . but since it is granted , that baptism doth enter persons into that catholic church we believe in the creeds , doth it not evidently follow , that the catholic church in the creeds is larger than the roman communion ? for it takes in those which the other doth not . doth not the catholic church take in all that are admitted into the catholick church ? but many more by their own confession are admitted into it than are of the roman communion , and therefore it unavoidably follows , that the roman catholick church cannot be the catholic church believed in the two creeds . and although according to s. augustine , the validity of baptism depends on the right form of words and not the good disposition of him that administers ; yet baptism where it is valid must have its due effect , which is entering persons into the catholic church . but say they , doth not heresie , &c. cast them out of the catholic church ? suppose it doth , yet if heresie do cast them out , they were in the church till they were cast out of it . their being allowed to be in it doth my business ; let them prove them cast out by heresie when they please . but the defender saith , i suppose what i should prove , and then prove it by means of that supposition . here i am to seek ; for do i not prove from their own supposition and not from mine , that baptism doth enter persons into the catholic church ? and therefore from thence i prove , that themselves cannot believe the catholic and roman church to be all one ; since they allow many multitudes to be entred into the catholic church , which they deny to be of the roman church . yet he goes on , that such persons are not truly members either of the catholic or roman-●atholic church . no ? then baptism doth not admit persons into the catholic church . which is very new doctrine , and fit only for new converts , and is directly contrary to the roman catechism , which saith , baptism is the gate by which we enter into the church . they were so far ●embers , saith he , as baptism could make them . and that i hope was to make them members of christs body ; or else what becomes of the council of trent , which so expresly asserts , and that with an anathema , the validity and efficacy of the sacraments in general ? and of baptism in particul●● ? and there is a special anathema against those who say that children baptized are not to be reckon'd inter fideles , and i hope those are members of the catholic church . is there remission of sins , communion with the holy spirit granted out of the catholic church ? yet these are the effects of baptism , owned by all persons in the church of rome ; or else they cannot themselves be of the roman communion . what is it then i pray to be as much members of the church as baptism could make them ? what can make them more members than baptism doth ? according to their own doctrine . but they are as far off the roman church as they are off the catholic . say you so ? then no more is requisite to make a man a member of the roman ●hurch , than is necessary to his baptism . this great news , a●● would be very welcome to the christian world. i have h●●rd of many projects of accommodation ; but none seem to be like this . for then no more is necessary to make us members of the roman church than of the catholic , i. e. owning the creed and our baptismal vow . nay , hold there , saith he , the profession of the catholic faith is necessary to make one a true member of the roman-catholic church . this is the meaning of a whole page , or else it has none : suppose this to be true ; and it proves what i intend . for either this catholic faith is the same which was required to baptism , or not . if the same , then no more is required than owning the creeds , to make a member of the roman-catholic church ; if not the same , then those who are members of the catholic church by baptism , are not members of the roman catholic till a farther profession of the roman faith ; and consequently the catholic church and the roman-catholic are not the same , since those may be members of the catholic church , who are not of the roman-catholic . can any thing be plainer ? and the replier is so much a gentleman , to own the truth of it . for these are his words , that baptism enters persons into the catholic church , who though they be out of the communion of the roman church , yet having the true form of baptism are members of the catholic church . therefore the catholick church and roman-catholic cannot be the same . which was all i intended to prove . but he saith , that as baptism enters them into the catholic church , so heresie , apostasie , or infidelity casts them out ; or else the old hereticks , which he reckons up , were still members of the catholic church . i answer , that my argument was not concerning the old hereticks , who rejected any article of the ●reed , which was delivered at baptism , and the owning of it required in order to it ; but concerning the roman-catholic church , which makes the owning new articles of faith necessary in order to its communion ; and if this church reject any from its communion who do own the articles of the creeds , it follows from thence , that it is not the catholic church into which persons are admitted by baptism . but no man if an heretick , though baptized , can remain in the church . if he be convicted of renouncing the creed , upon the owning whereof he was received to baptism , he casts himself out of the church ; for he doth not stand to his promise . if you mean that any thing which the roman-catholic church declares to be heresie , casts a man out of the catholic church , i do utterly deny it , and i see no reason brought to prove it . ( . ) i argued , that in a divided state of the church there may be different communions , and yet both may remain parts of the catholic church ; for which i instanced in the excommunications of old about keeping easter , and the differences between the eastern and western churches ; but to appropriate the title of the one catholic church to any one of the divided parties , so as to exclude the rest , was to charge that party with the schism , as in the case of the novatians and donatists ; and consequently , to apply the one catholic church to the roman , was to make it guilty of the present schism in the christian world. both the defender and replier behave themselves in their answers to this , as if they did not understand what i aimed at ; and therefore run out into things by the bye , as if they thought there were no difference between saying something to a book , and giving an answer to it . what i can pick up , which seems material , i will set down distinctly . the replier takes notice that i said , that before the unhappy divisions of the christian church it had been no difficulty to have shewed that one visible church which christ had here upon earth ; to which he answers , that there were divisions in the apostles times , and the same means which were then used to preserve the unity of the catholic church , did equally serve for after ages and continue to this day , and so the unity of the catholic church is still as visible as ever it was . this in few words i take to be the force of what he saith . but certainly there was a time when the unity of the ●atholic ●hurch was a little more discernable than now it is . doth not the scripture tell us , the multitude was of one heart and one soul ? are all christians so at this day ? i grant afterward there were schisms and heresies in the apostolical churches . but the apostles had an infallible spirit , which they manifested by the power of miracles going along with it , by which means the heresies were laid open and the schisms stopped . but what were those heresies ? such as contradicted the articles of the creed , as about the truth of christ's incarnation , and the resurrection of the dead &c. and therefore the apostles by the assistance of that infallible spirit did write epistles to the churches , to declare that which was to be the standing faith of all ages ; and by an unquestionable tradition ( in the church of rome ) they summ'd up these fundamental points of faith in that which is therefore called the apostles creed . this was therefore the standard whereby to judge of faith and heresie ; and by this , they proceeded in the ages succeeding the apostles . afterwards , some did not bare faced contradict the articles of the creed , but broached such doctrines as did by consequence overthrow them ; as the arians by making a creature god , the nestorians and e●tychians denying in effect the truth of christ's incarnation ; against these the general councils assembled and the eastern and western churches joyned in condemning them ; not from their own authority as supreme or infallible judges ; but as the most authentic witnesses of the true apostolical doctrine . and thus the creed was enlarged by general consent through the whole catholic church , and that which was called the nicene creed was made the standard of catholic communion . but to prevent any mischief by overcharging the creed , the general council of ephesus did absolutely forbid any farther additions to be made to it , and the council of chalcedon ratified that prohibition . all that they pretended to , was only to give the true sense of the articles therein received about the incarnation of christ , and the same was declared by the fifth and sixth general councils ; whereof the one was to clear the council of chalcedon from favouring nestorianism , and the other to shew that the humane nature in christ was perfect , as to the affections of the soul as well as the body . but after this , a mighty breach happen'd between the eastern and western churches ; and setting aside the different customs in both ( which might easily have been composed ) there were two things , which made this breach irreconcileable . . the western churches taking upon them to make a new addition to the creed ; as to the spirit 's proceeding from the son ; without asking the consent of the eastern churches . . the bishop of rome's assuming to himself an authority of headship over the catholic church . they did not deny him a primacy of order , as he had the first patriarchal see ; but when he took upon him to exercise jurisdiction in the other patriarchates as well as his own , and sent legates for that purpose , they rejected his authority , and so the breach continued . but the defender saith , the popes supremacy , if his memory fail him not , was not so much as made a pretence till near years after the schism began , nor any where more acknowledged than in greece , nor by any body more than by him that began the schism . if his memory fail him not , i am sure , something else doth . for nothing can be more notorious from the very epistles of the popes on occasion of this schism , than that this was at the bottom of all ; whatever pretences might be made use of sometimes to palliate the matter . let him but read the epistles of leo i. to anatolius and concerning him ; the epistles of gregory i. about the title of oecumenical patriarch ; the epistles of nicolaus i. concerning photius ; of leo ix . concerning michael cerularius , and i think he will be of another opinion ; and that the controversie about supremacy , to the scandal of the christian world , was the true occasion of that dreadful schism . but all the eastern churches i said however different among themselves to this day , look on the pope's supremacy as an innovation to the church . to which the replier saith , the eastern churches were divided from the roman-catholic church by such doctrines as are inconsistent with the church of england which professes to hold with the four first general councils . i will not deny but the breach as to the nestorians began on the account of the council of ephesus ; but whether the christians under the turk and persians in asia are truely nestorians is another question : i think not , for this reason . in the beginning of this century , the patriarch of those christians called his most learned men about him to consider what their doctrine really was , and how far they differ'd from the roman church about christ ; since the missionaries from thence , still charged them with heresie : and they declared the difference to be only in words and the manner of explication . for however they say that every nature hath a person inseparable from it ( by which they mean no more than a subsistence ) yet from the union of these two in christ , they hold that there is but one persona they c●ll it , or one son resulting from the union of both natures . and as long as they hold a real union of both natures and one filiation ( as they speak ) resulting from it , it is beyond my understanding that they should be guilty of the nestorian heresie . and this account was given to paul . by one sent from their patriarch , and ordered to be printed by him at rome . but is it not really a very hard case for families , who as is there said were under that patriarch , to be excluded the catholic church , and consequently from salvation , for not right understanding the subtilties of the distinction between nature and person ; as , whether subsistence can be separated from individual nature ; or whether an hypostatical union doth imply that the individual nature doth lose its own subsistence ? i appeal to the conscience of any good christian , whether he thinks christ and his apostles did ever make the knowledge of these things necessary to salvation ; which the subtilest of their schoolmen are never able to explain to the capacities of the sar greatest part of mankind . the like may be said , as to those called eutychians , i do not doubt but the confusion of both natures in christ was a doctrine justly condemned by the council of chalcedon , because he could not be true man , if the nature of man were lost in him ; but i think there is no reason to condemn those for that heresie , who declare they reject the doctrine of eutyches , and that they hold two natures in christ making up one personated nature without mixture or confusion , as their patriarch explained their doctrine to leonardus abel bishop of sidon , when gregrory . sent his nuncio into those parts , on purpose to understand their doctrines . and the latter missionaries confirm the same thing ; that they do not deny two natures in christ , but say that two natures are as parts making up by their union one nature with a person . and herein they say , dioscorus , whom they follow , differ'd from eutyches . and must such infinite numbers of this perswasion in the eastern and western parts be excluded from the catholic church for not knowing the difference between a person resulting from the union , of two natures ; and one nature without a person arising from two natures without mixture or confusion ? a late writer of the roman communion is so ingenuous to acknowledge that the heresies charged on the eastern churches are imaginary and that they differ only in terms , from that which is owned to be the catholic faith. and faustus naironus hath lately published a book at rome to prove that the maronites have been all along good catholics ; although the popes in their bulls from the time of innocent iii. have still charged them with heresie . as to the greeks , there is yet less reason to charge them with heresie ; since they adhere to the four general councils ; and out of zeal for the decree of the council of ephesus , will not allow the addition which the western church made to the creed . so that upon the whole matter , there is nothing to exclude the eastern churches from being parts of the catholic church , but denying the popes supremacy . but he tells us , some of these ( if his authors deceive him not ) as the egyptians and ethiopians have often made overtures to the pope for peace and communion , owning him for supreme head of the church , provided only they might not be obliged to renounce eutyches and dioscorus . i am extremely afraid his authors have deceived him , i wish he had named them that others might beware of them . i suppose he means that which baronius printed at the end of his sixth tome , of a solemn embassy from the patriarch of alexandria and all the provinces of egypt to own the pope as supreme head of the church ; which was soon after found to be a meer cheat and imposture . how far the ethiopians are from owning the popes authority he may find in ludolphus , or balthasar tellez . it is true the pope sent a patriarch into the east upon a division among themselves ; but after a while , he was forced to withdraw to the remotest parts of persia , and to leave their own patriarch in full power . the bishop of sidon relates , what ill success he had with the patriarch of the iacobites . and it is well known how soon the greeks returned to their old opposition after the council of florence . i had therefore reason to say , that all the churches of the east however different among themselves agreed in rejecting the pope's supremacy , and to this day look on it as an innovation in the church . as to what he afterwards speaks of their blasphemies against the divinity and humanity of christ , i now leave the world to judge of them ; and if they be true , all men must condemn the popes missionaries for notorious liers ; for the judgment i make of them , is from the relations they have given us . and if these be true , i can by no means allow them to be excluded from being parts of the catholic church ; and so that must be of far greater extent than the roman-catholic church . but to go on . i observed that which i thought a material difference in the schisms of the church , some i said were consistent with both parties remaining in the catholic church ; for which i instanced in the bishops of rome excommunicating the bishops of asia , about easter ; and those of asia and africa about re-baptizing . others were for excluding all out of the church but themselves , as the novatians and donatists . the replier tells me he doth not think this difference at all material . for what reason ? because the church is the last tribunal in all differences ; and whosoever separates from her is to be reputed as a heathen or a publican . it seems then the bishops of asia for not keeping easter with pope victor , were as very heathens and publicans as the novatians and donatists . i hope this gentleman after all , will not make the church so severe in all its censures , to cut men presently off from being members of the catholic church . i had learnt from s. augustin , that excommunications are sometimes used by way of discipline to bring persons to a sense of their fauits , and not to cut them off from the people of god. but suppose excommunications should always cut persons off from the catholic church , is it not to be supposed that they are just and reasonable ? suppose the matter doth not deserve it , or there be false suggestions , or a precipitate sentence ; is it really all one , if the church happens to excommunicate ? but beside all this , suppose one bishop in the church takes upon him to excommunicate others for little or no cause , and against the advice of his brethren ; which was the case of victor about the asian bishops ; must they be cut off from the catholic church as effectually , as if they had been guilty of the greatest heresie or schism ? but not to affix too severe a censure on the replier , in the next page he doth acknowledge a material difference ; which he saith was , that the whole church was not yet engaged , and till a decision be made by the whole church , the parts may excommunicate each other , and remain parts of the church still . now this , in my opinion , makes very much for me . for in this divided state of the christian world , the whole church is not engaged as to any decision of the present differences ; and therefore no parts can be cut off by other parts from the catholic church . for , since the breaches of christendom , there hath been no representative of the catholic church ; and is not like to be ; and so the divided parts remain parts of the catholic church still . the council of trent was so far from it , that the famous abbot of s. ●yprian called it a cabal of schoolmen influenced by the pope . and there is a great deal of difference between the decision of schoolmen and of the catholic church . i cannot but still think it material to observe , that in schisms of the most dangerous nature , the fault was laid on that part which appropriated the title of the catholic church to it self , as in the novatians and donatists . here the defender puts in his exceptions ; for he saith , it sounds , as if i would have that title never rightly applied , but to those who do not challenge it ; in likelihood because they have no pretence to it . the insinuation is , as if i were willing any should be called the catholic ●hurch , but that which is . but in earnest , i am as much against any one part being called the whole , as another . and from the case of the novatians and donatists i have learnt to charge the schism on those , who at best being but a part challenge the whole to themselves . but he cannot understand how it comes to be presumption , and a cause of schism in one part of a division to assume it . i am very sorry for it , that he cannot understand it to be a presumption in a part , to call it self the whole . he saith , in a division , it is not well intelligible how more than one part can bear it . i say it is not at all intelligible how any part can bear it . what thinks he of the novatians and donatists ? was it not presumption in them to arrogate the title of the catholic church to themselves ? and were they not therefore guilty of the schism ? in the ancient church there were two sorts of schisms , which i think it material to observe . . a factious schism . . a sacrilegious schism . ( . ) a factious schism ; when men out of opposition to their lawful governours , in the church set up separate assemblies . which by the fathers are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as by s. basil in his epistle to amphilochius , where he distinguisheth heresie , schism and unlawful meetings . heresie is against some necessary point of faith ; schism is a separation from the catholic church about matters of discipline ; and unlawful assemblies are such as are set up against the rules of the church . those who were guilty of these were received upon due submission ; those who were guilty of schism were to renounce their schism ; and those who were guilty of heresie , were to be re-baptized . this was s. basil's judgment , and is followed by balsamon , zonaras and arist●nus . and s. basil himself saith , this was the sense of the fathers before him . ( . ) a sacrilegious schism is that which robs the church of god of that which belongs to it , i. e. which excludes all but their own number from being true members of the church . and this was the schism charged on the novatians and donatists . this s. augustine very often charges upon the latter , as a very high piece of schism ; for , saith he , while they confine the church to their own communion , they are guilty of manifest sacrilege , both against christ and his ●hurch . and whosoever follow their steps , and exclude any parts of the church from being so , and confine the church to their own communion , they are guilty of the same sacrilegious schism ; which is of a higher nature than a meer factious schism . but the defender saith , the language of the world has always preserved the title of catholic to one part , and given the name of sect or part cut off to the other . by the language of the world , he must mean of that part which excludes the rest . which he calls the world by the very same figure by which a part challenges to be the whole . but in consequence to this , for all that i can yet see , these who were excluded out of the catholic church , must be taken in by baptism . and s. cyprian , firmilian , and s. basil saw this well enough . i confess it was after carried , that hereticks were to be distinguished , and those only to be re-baptized who renounced the baptismal faith , in father , son and holy ghost . and the meaning , i suppose wa● , that nothing but that exclude persons out of the catholic church ; and those hereticks whose baptism was allow'd , were of an inferiour sort ; and by not disowning their baptism , they shew'd they looked on them only as corrupted parts of the church . and so did the councils of nice and arles ; which did not utterly reject re-baptization , but only of those who preserved the baptismal faith. it was not therefore the sense of the ancient church , that upon every dissension in matters of faith from the general doctrine of the church , one party must be excluded from the catholic church , and that title belong to the other . but he proceeds , that this presumption cannot be the cause of schisms , which must happen before the presumption . this is very easily answered . for a breach there must be before ; but the schism belongs to those who were the true causes of the breach . if therefore any one part assumes to it self the right of the whole , and requires the owning it from all that joyn in communion with it , this very act makes it justifiable ( not to separate from the catholic church ) but not to joyn in communion with that part on such unreasonable terms . well , saith he , suppose the dividing parts do still continue parts of the catholic whole ; cannot the roman-catholic be that whole , i. e. suppose there be many parts , why may not one of them be the whole ? for still , the roman-catholic is but a part , though catholic be the whole ; as though the ocean be the whole , yet the british , or gallican , or spanish , or atlantick ocean , is but a part of the whole ocean . i am ashamed to pursue so clear a point any farther . but he hath one fetch behind still , viz. that it is one faith which makes the catholic church one ; if therefore the roman catholic church be a part of this catholic whole , the other parts must believe as she does , or else they cannot be parts . i will endeavour to make this clear to him , and so end this dispute . the church is a society of persons who own and profess the christian faith ; therefore faith is necessary to the very being of a church ; for unless they believe the christian doctrine , they cannot be the christian church . this faith which is necessary to make them christians , is to be embraced by all who are members of this church ; their entrance is by baptism ; the faith is the creed delivered to those who are to be baptized ; which being universally received by christians , that makes the common bond of union in the parts of this great body ; and this is the one faith of the catholic church . but if he thinks the roman-catholic church can make all its decisions a part of this one faith , he is extreamly mistaken . as will more fully appear in the following discourse . ii. of the authority of the catholic church . the whole and sole design of the first paper , as the replier tells me , was to evince this point . that all controversial p●ints of faith , either about holy scripture , or other subjects , do fall under the iudgment and decision of the church . but , under favour , that is not the whole design of it ; for this implies no more than that the church may , if it pleases , decide them ; but the desi n is , to prove , that in all matters of faith the churches authority is without farther examination to be submitted to ; so that all that christians have to do is but to enquire into two things . . where the church is . . whether the church hath declared its judgment or not . and several things are objected in the papers against the not submitting to the churches judgment , viz. that every one will be his own iudge ; which is not allowed in common matters , much less in matters of faith ; that no such authority is given to every particular man by scripture ; but the churches authority is there established ; and was owned in the primitive church in the creeds , and about the canonical books ; and since the church had once such a power , there is no reas●n to suppose it lost ; but upon differences happening , the churches iudgment is to be submitted to . this is the whole strength and force of the first paper ; and it is about a subject of the highest importance , both as to the satisfaction of particular persons , and the peace of the christian world. and the clearing thes . two points will go a very great way towards the putting an end to controversies . . that in all disputes we are to search no farther , but presently to yield to the judgment of the church . . that the roman-catholic church is that church . how far i am from being satisfied with the latter doth already appear ; i now set my self to consider the other . and here are these things necessary to be debated , . whether christ and his apostles did establish such a standing judicature in the church , to which all christians were bound to submit in matters of faith ? . whether the primitive church did own such a judicature ; and did accordingly govern their faith ? . whether it be an unreasonable thing to suppose the contrary , viz. that christ should leave men to judge for themselves in matters which concern their salvation , according to the scriptures ? ( . ) whether christ and his apostles did establish such a standing judicature in the church to put an end to all controversies which should arise about matters of faith ? we do not question but christ might have done it if he had pleased ; and there is no doubt he foresaw all those inconveniences which are now objected against the want of it ; but the point before us , is , whether christ , who alone could do it , hath declared this to be his will and pleasure ? we are then to consider , that this being a point of so great consequence , the commission for such a court of judicature in the church ought to be delivered in the plainest and clearest words that may be ; for otherwise this were to beget controversies instead of putting an end to them . when god under the law , established a supreme court of appeal as to the differences which might arise about the law , he tells them where that court should fit , and commands the people to go up thither and hear their sentence and submit to it . this was a plain and clear declaration of the will of god ; and they had no more to do but to go up to the place which god did chuse , viz. ierusalem . and there was never any dispute aft●rwards among the israelites what they were to do when differences happened ; for an appeal lay to the court of ierusalem , and the sentence of that court they were to stand to on pain of death . our blessed saviour knew this constitution among the jews , when he founded his church ; and if he had intended any such thing therein , he would not have fallen short of the exactness of the law in the things necessary in order to the establishment of it ; i. e. he would not have failed to have told us , who were to make up that supreme court , and where it was to sit. for these things were necessary to the end of it . shall we then say that christ was not yet resolved where it should be ? or , that it was not fit to let it be known so soon ? but why not , when he made promises to the apostles of being with them to the end of the world ? there can be no pretence , why he should not then declare , where the supreme and standing court of his church was to be ; which was in all ages to give rules to the rest of the church , and to determine all points of faith which came before them . but did the apostles determine this matter after christ's ascension ? if they had done it , we must have yielded , because they had an infallible spirit : but we find nothing like it in all their writings . they mention heresies often , and damnable ones they saw creeping into the church , they lamented the schisms and divisions in the churches of their own planting , and used frequent and vehement exhortations to peace and unity . but why not a word of the infallible judge of controversies all this while ? s. paul wrote to the church of rome it self , and even there mentions dissensions that were among them , as well as in any other church . what , could not he tell them they were to make rules and give judgment for the whole church ? did s. paul envy this privilege to s. peter's see , and therefore took no notice of it ? that i suppose will not be said of him , though he once withstood him to the face . but , how happen the rest of the apostles not to do it ? nay , how came s. peter himself , writing for the benefit of the whole church , in a catholic epistle , never to give the least intimation concerning it ? these things make it appear incredible to me , that christ or his apostles appointed any such thing ; especially , when the apostles in their infallible writings give such directions to particular christians as they do ; to prove all things , and to hold fast that which is good ; to try the spirits whether they be of god o● not . what had they to do to try the spirits , or to prove any thing themselves , if the judgment of the matters of faith were so given to the church , that others without farther enquiry are bound to submit to its sentence ? and if christ and his apostles knew nothing of such an infallible judge ; we have no reason to hearken to any , who after their time should pretend to it . for the promise of infallibility must be made by him ; and such a commission can be derived only from the immediate authority of christ himself . but the defender saith , the holy scripture assures us that the church is the foundation and pillar of truth . i confess , i cannot be assured from hence , that the church hath such an authority as is here pleaded for , suppose it be understood of the whole church . for how was it possible the church at that time should be the foundation and pillar of truth , when the apostles had the infallible spirit , and were to guide and direct the whole church ? it seems therefore far more probable to me , that those words relate to timothy , and not to the church , by a very common elleipsis , viz. how he ought to behave himself in the church of god , which is the house of the living god , as a pillar and support of truth : and to that purpose this whole epistle was written to him ; as appears by the beginning of it , wherein he is charged not to give heed to fables , and to take care that no false doctrine were taught at ephesus . now , saith the apostle , if i come not shortly , yet i have written this epistle that thou maist know how to behave thy self in the church , which is the house of god , as a pillar and support of tru●h . what can be more natural and easie , than this sense ? and that there is no novelty in it appears from hence , that gregory nyssen expresly delivers this to be the meaning ; and many others of the fathers apply the same phrases to the great men of the church . s. basil useth the very same expressions concerning musonius . s. chrysosrom calls the apostles the immovable pillars of the true faith. theodoret saith concerning s. peter and s. iohn , that they were the towers of godliness , and the pillars of truth . ●regory nazianzen calls s. basil , the ground of faith , and the rule of truth : and elsewhere , the pillar and ground of the church ; which titles he gives to another bishop at that time . and so it appears in the greek catena , mentioned by heinsius , s. basil read these words or understood them so ; when he saith , the apostles were the pillars of the new jerusalem , as it is said , the pillar and ground of the church . i forbear more , since these are sufficient to shew that they understood this place as relating to timothy , and not to the church . as to what he brings of scriptures not being of private i●terpretation ; it is so remote from the sense and scope of the place , which relates wholy to divine inspiration , that this is a great instance of that private interpretation which ought to be avoided , viz. of minding only the words , without regard to the sense of scripture . it was said in the papers , tha● christ left his power to his church , even to forgive sins in heaven ; and left his spirit with them , which they exercised after the resurrection . it was farther answered , that all this makes nothing for the roman-catholic church not then in being , unless she were heir-general to the apostles ; that the ordinary power of the keys relates not to this matter ; that the promise of the spirit made to the apostles , implied many gifts not pretended to by this heir-general , as the gift of tongues , spirit of discerning , prophecie , miraculous cures and punish ments . if no more be understood of divine assistance , that is promised as much to keep men from sin as error ; but the church of rome pretends only to the latter ; and yet it is granted too , that it may err in matters of great consequence to the peace of the christian world , as in the deposing doctrine this is the substance of the answer ; let us now see what they reply . the force of what the desender saith is this , that though the roman church were not then in being , yet as soon as it was , it was a part of the catholic church , to which the promises were made ; and therefore the roman-catholic church being the one church of christ , these promises must have their effect in her . this is all i can make of it ; though it cost me more pains to lay their things together with an appe●●ance of strength , than to give an answer to them . the roman church it seems had not the promises made to it ; but as soon as it was a church , she was a part of the catholic church . this is very intelligible . let us then go on . but how come the promises made to the catholic church to belong to the roman-catholic ? how comes the roman-catholic to be the one church of christ on ea●th ? but this is running forwards and backwards . and 〈◊〉 g●od is to be done , without supposing roman and catho●●● to be terms equivalent . he tells me , i am over-hasty in removing the power of working miracles out of the church . for , he saith , god still works miracles in the roman church ; and if i would put the whole issue on miracles , he would undertake the proof . there is nothing in this case like working of miracles among us , for our satisfaction . for miracles are a sign to unbelievers . but it is a pleasant thing , that they should go about to convince us by those things , which they laugh at one another for pretending to . i will give them an instance past contradiction . did not the iansenists pretend to a miracle at port-royal by one of the thorns of our saviours crown ? and did not the iesuits expose the very pretence as idle and ridiculous ? as appears by f. annat's book on that occasion . the late author of the prejudices against the jansenists , upon occasion of that miracle , lays down some good rules for discerning true miracles and false . ( . ) that such miracles are not sufficient to convince , which may be effected by a created power , unless they be attested by such miracles which can only be effected by a divine power ; such as resurrection from the dead . ( . ) we must not only attend to the nature , but to the end of miracles ; which , he saith , is the true worship of god , and the love of vertue . and by these rules i shall be content to examine all his miracles , when ever he produces them . the assistance which christ promised , he tells us , was to all his . doctrine , and to all time . but what a sad thing is it , that we have nothing but his bare saying for the proof of it ! never man more needed infallibility than this defender does , when he undertakes to prove it . what! can christ afford no assistance to his church without infallibility ? what thinks he of the assistance of divine grace ? doth that make all infallible that have it ? and is not that assistance by vertue of divine promises ? is this to ask which of the parts of his promise he will not perform ? we doubt not he will perform all he hath promised , but we desire to see where he hath made the promise . we ask nothing unreasonable , and therefore out of pity to our weakness , shew these promises of standing infallibility to us ; and do not take it still for granted without proving it . but the replier saith , the promises of christ imply whatever is necessary to the church for the support and government of her self to the worlds end . is infallibility then necessary for the support and government of the catholic church ? if not , then the promises of support and government ●elate not to the matter . but no less a man than s. augustine , frequently affirms , that the promises made by christ to the church , are only made to good and not to bad men in it ; and that the case of wicked men in the church , and of hereticks and schismaticks out of it is alike ; i. e. that both have true sacraments , but neither any right to the promises . and this he doth not assert by chance , but it is the very foundation of his answer to the donatists , in the answer which himself valued the most . and he concludes with saying , that some are in the house of god , so as to be that house of god which was built upon a rock , and had th promises made to it ; and these are the saints dispersed over the world , and joyned together in the communion of the same sacraments ; others are so in the house , as not to belong to the frame of it ; but are as the chaff among the wheat ; and are rather of the house than any part of it . if this be good doctrine in s. augustin , what becomes of all the promi●es made to the church , with respect to the external government and support of it ? i might name multitudes of places more , wherein he argues , that wicked ●en do not belong to the one church ; and are not the sp●se of christ : for christ saith to them , i know you n●t ; and her●●ticks , he saith , are but one sort of bad men. if therefore the promises of the catholic church do not belong to one , neither can 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 other . i had therefore reason ●o ask , where god hath ever promised to keep men more from error than sin ? and how it comes to pass that very bad men are allow'd in the church of rome to have this pr●●●ise of infallibility ? the defender slides off from this to a matter he was better prepared to answer . but the replier tells us of some of the proph●ts who were great sinners ; i suppose he means balaam and caiaphas . but however , this doth not reach to the matter of the new testament , wherein doing the will of god is laid down as the best means of knowing the truth . but he offers at a reason why impeccability is not so necessary as infallibility , because without this the church could not subsist ; for if once she make shipwrack of her faith , she is no more a church , an effe● not so proper to sin. there is a great difference between absolute impeccability and notorious offenders ; the question i put was not concerning perfect saints , but great sinners ; why they should believe that christ would give an infallible assistance to keep such men from erring , when notwithstanding the assistance of grace , they run on in a course of wickedness ? he saith , one is necessary for the church , and not the other . then there may be a holy catholic infallible church made up of none but great sinners . and was this such a church as christ purchased with his own blood ; and whom he re●●●med from all impiety to be a peculiar people , zealous of good works ? if they say , the grace of god ill never fail to keep some from great sins ; why may not the same hold as to great errors ? and that be as much as the promises extend to . b●t if the church once makes shipwrack of faith , she is no more a church . how comes faith to be separated from a good conscience ? i am sure s. paul joyns them together . is no error consistent with the being of a church ? not an error about the seat of infallibility ? not an error about the immaculate conception ? nor about the vision of god before the day of iudgment ? not about the son 's being of the same substance with the father ? not about christ's having a will proper to his humane nature ? then there can be no such thing as the roman-catholic church in the opinion of those who are for personal infallibility of the pope , since the heads of their church have erred about these things . the true church can never make shipwrack of that faith which makes her a true church : but other kind of errors cannot overthrow her being . i urged farther , that notwithstanding the pretence to infallibility , they allow the church may err in matters of practice of the highest importance , as about deposing princes and absolving subjects from their allegiance ; but not about the least matter of faith ; which made it very suspicious to be rather a politick device than a thing they really believed . here the defender ( i fear wilfully ) mistakes my meaning ; for he argues as if he thought i were proving , that the church of rome hath defined the deposing doctrine as a matter of faith ; and great pains he takes to prove it hath not . and all to no purpose . for i insisted only , that in this point , they confessed their church had grosly erred as to a matter of practice , though it had not expresly declared it as an article of faith. i desire him to speak out ; hath it not erred notoriously as to practice in this matter ? whether they have made any such declaration or not , as to oblige all others of their communion to embrace the doctrine ; it is undeniably true , that their popes and councils have owned it and acted according to it , to the mighty disturbance of the peace of the christian world. now the question i put was this , since it is granted they have so notoriously erred in matters of practice , why should any believe them infallible in points of faith ? i. e. that so many popes , so many councils , should act upon this principle , as believing it to be true , and yet preserve their infallibility in not declaring it to be true . this i confess is an extraordinary thing ; and the defender seems in earnest to think they were kept from it by an over-ruling assistance of the divine spirit . which is just as if a man were set upon in the road by some pretending to be his friends , who should take from him all that he had , and afterwards he should admire the providence of god , that these men should not declare it lawful to do it . it is granted that so many popes did great mischief to the world , and especially to christian princes , by acting according to this doctrine , and that they actually owned it in councils , and made canons on purpose for it , but yet an over-ruling assistance kept them from making it a point of faith. they declared their own belief by their practice and canons ; they required the observance of them under pain of being cut off from the church if they did it not ; and gregory vii . saith , they cut themselves off who question this power ; but they were deceived , notoriously deceived in this matter , yet they might be infallible still . did not these popes declare that to be christs doctrine which is not ? but not authoritatively . what i pray doth this mean ? did they not declare this power by vertue of the authority given them by christ over the church ? and declare those excommunicate who did not obey their sentence ? is not this proceeding authoritatively ? suppose the popes had in the same manner declared that hereticks should be re-baptized ; i. e. made canons for it , and required the observance of them ; i desire to know whether this had not been authoritative declaring it , though they affixed no anathema to those who held the contrary ? is it possible for any man to believe , that if there were such a thing as infallibility in the guides of the church , that christ would suffer them to run into such pernicious errors , and in such an authoritative manner , and yet make good his promise of keeping them from error by not suffering them to define this doctrine as an article of faith ? but this will appear to be a very slender evasion , if men will reflect on the nature of the matter it self ; for it is about the exercise of the pope's power over princes ; and can it be supposed that since they challenged it , they would ever suffer it to be debated in councils ; but they would still have it pass as an inseparable right of their supremacy derived from s. peter . and all that they would allow in this case , is a bare recognition ; and that was made in the councils of lyons and lateran . and the deposing power in the church , was sufficiently owned in the councils of constance and trent . but there are two sorts of articles of faith to be considered in the church of rome . . some are defined with an anathema against dissenters ; and so we do not say the deposing power is made an article of faith. . some are received upon the common grounds of faith , though not expresly declared . and whatever doctrine being denied would overthrow them , may be justly look'd on as a presumptive article of faith. as the denying the deposing power must charge the church of rome representative and virtual with such acts , as are utterly inconsistent with the promises of divine assistance supposed to be made to it . therefore all those who sincerely believe those promises to belong to the church of rome so taken , must in consequence believe so many popes and councils could not be so grosly mistaken in the ground of their actings . and i find those who do now most contend that this doctrine was never defined , do yet yield , that both popes and councils believed it to be true , and acted accordingly . but if nothing will be allowed to be points of faith , but what passes under the decision of councils approved by the pope as such , i pray tell me , which of the general councils determined the popes supremacy as a point of faith ? where was the roman catholic churches infallibility defined ? are these points of faith with you , or not ? if they be , then there may be points of faith among you which never passed any conciliar definitions ; or such authoritative declaration as the defender means . ( . ) i now come to consider the sense of the primitive church about this matter of an infallible judge of controversies . which i am obliged to do , not only because it is said in the papers , that the church exercised this power after the apostles ; but because the defender brings tertullian as rejecting the scripture from being a sufficient rule for controversies ; and s. augustine , as setting up the authority of the church above the scripture in matters of proof . but i confess two lame sayings of fathers make no great impression on me . i am for searching the sense of the primitive church in so weighty a point as this , after another manner ; ( but as briefly as may be ) i. e. by the general sense of the fathers of the first ages about the controversies then on foot , that i may not deceive my self or others in a matter of this consequence . the point is , whether according to the sense of the primitive church , when any controversie about faith doth arise , a person be bound to submit to the churches sentence as infallible ; or he be required to make use of the best means he can to judge concerning it , taking the scriptures for his infallible rule ? now to judge the sense of the primitive church about this point , there can be no method more proper or convincing than to consider what course the christian church did take in the controversies then started , which were great and considerable . and if it had been then believed that christ had left such an infallible authority in the church to have put an end to them ; it had been no more possible to have avoided the mention of it , than if a great cause in law were to be decided among us , that neither party should ever take notice of the iudges in westminster-hall . there were two very great controversies in the primitive church , which continued a long time under different names ; and we are now to observe what method the catholic writers of the church took for establishing the true faith. and these were concerning the humanity , and the divinity of christ. that concerning the humanity of christ begun very early ; for s. iohn mentions those who denied that iesus was come in the flesh ; i. e. that he really took our nature upon him . and this heresie did spread very much after the apostles times . ignatius made it a great part of the business of his epistles to warn the churches he wrote to , and to arm them against it . and what way doth he take to do it ? doth he ever tell them of the danger of using their own judgment ; or of not relying on the authority of the church in this matter ? i cannot find one passage tending that way in all his epistles . but instead thereof , he appeals to the words of our saviour in the evangelist , touch me , and see if i be a body , or a spirit : his words are an incorporeal daemon ; but it was usual with the ancient fathers to repeat the sense of places , and not the very words . and a little after he saith , that these hereticks were not perswaded , neither by the prophets , nor by the law , nor by the gospel . and he advises the church of smyrna to attend to the prophets , but especially to the gospel ; in which the passion and resurrection of christ are declared . irenaeus disputes warmly and frequently against this heresie ; and he appeals to the testimony of the apostles in thei● writings ; especially to the gospels of s. iohn and s. ●a●thew ; but not omitting the other gospels and the epistles of s. paul and s. iohn . and he calls the scriptures , the * immoveable rule of truth ; the † foundation and pillar of our faith ; and saith , that * they contain the whole will of god. it is t●ue , he makes use of tradition in the church , to those who rejected the scriptures ; and he finds fault with those who took words and pieces of scripture to serve their turn ; but he directs to the right use of it , and doth not seem to question the sufficiency thereof , for the satisfaction of humble and teac●able minds in all the points of faith , which were then controverted . tertullian undertakes the same cause in several books and several ways . one is by shewing that the opinion of the hereticks was novel ; not being consistent with the doctrine delivered by the apostles , as appeared by the unanimous consent of the apostolical churches ; which did all believe christ had a true and real body . and this way he made use of , because those hereticks either rejected , or interpolated , or perverted the books of scripture . but this way of prescription look'd like out-lawing of hereticks and never suffering them to come to a fair trial. therefore in his other books he goes upon three substantial grounds . ( . ) that the books of scripture do certainly deliver the doctrine of the christian church concerning christs having a true body . ( . ) that these books of scripture were not counterfeit , nor corrupted and adulterated ; but preserved genuine and sincere in the apostolical churches . ( . ) that the sense which the hereticks put upon the words of scripture was forced and unreasonable ; but the sense of the church was true and natural . so that tertullian did conclude , that there was no way to end this controversie but by finding out the true sense of scripture . but the author of the defence brings in tertullian , as representing all trial of doctrine by scripture , as good for nothing but to turn the brain or the stomach ; and that the issue is either uncertain or none . i grant tertullian hath those words ; but for truths sake i wish he had not left out others , viz. that those hereticks do not receive some scriptures ; and those they do receive they add and alter as they please . and what , saith he , can the most skilful in scriptures do with those who will defend or deny what they think fit ? with such indeed , he saith , it is to little purpose to dispute out of scriptures . and no doubt he was in the right ; for the rule must be allow'd on both sides ; or else there can be nothing but a wrangling about it . the first thing then here , was to settle the rule , and for this the testimony of the apostolical churches was of great use . but to imagine that tertullian rejected all trial of doctrines by scripture , is to make him to write to little purpose afterwards ; when he combates with all sorts of hereticks out of scripture , as appears by his books against marcion , praxeas , hermogenes and others . and tertullian himself saith , that if we bring hereticks only to scripture , they cannot stand . not because they went only upon reason ; but in the end of the same treatise he saith , they made use of scriptures too , but such as were to be confuted by other scriptures . and therefore he makes the hereticks to decline , as much as in them lay , the light of the scriptures ; which he would never have charged on others , if he thought himself that controversies could not be ended by them . clemens alexandrinus speaking of the same heresies , makes the controversie to consist chiefly about the scriptures , whether they were to be embraced and followed , or not . he saith . none of the heresies among christians had so darken'd the truth , but that those who would might find it ; and the way he advises to , is a diligent search of the scriptures ; wherein the demonstration of our faith doth consist ; and by which , as by a certain criterion , we are to judge of the truth and falshood of opinions . which he there insists upon at large . he speaks indeed of the advantage of the church above heresies , both as to antiquity and unity ; but he never makes the iudgment of the church to be the rule of faith , as he doth the scriptures . in the dialogue against the marcionists , supposed to be origen's , this controversie is briefly handled , the point is brought to the sense of scripture ; as in that place , the word was made flesh ; from which , and other places the catholic argues the truth of christ's humane nature ; especially from christ's appealing to the sense of his disciples about the truth of his body after the resurrection . all his demonstrations are out of scripture , and by the meer force of them he overthrows this heresie . and it was nothing but the clear evidence of scripture , without any infallible judgment or assistance of the guides of the church , which did at last suppress this heresie . for no council was called about it , but as the authority of the new testament prevailed , so this heresie declined , and by degrees vanished out of the christian world. and it is observable , that the greatest and worst of heresies were supprest , while no other authority was made use of against them but that of the holy scriptures . so theodoret takes notice , that before his time these heresies by divine grace were extinct . so that the scriptures were then found an effectual means for putting an end to some of the most dangerous heresies which ever were in the christian church . the other great controversie of the first age , was about the divinity of christ ; which begun with the ebionites and cerinthians , and was continued down by succession , as appears by theodoret's account of heresies in his second book . those who first embraced this heresie rejected the whole new testament , and received only the nazarene gospel . but after a while artemon had the boldness to assert that the apostles deliver'd the same doctrine in their writings , and then the controversie was reduced to the sense of scripture . paulus samosatenus follow'd artemon , as photinus afterwards follow'd him . but theodoret again observes , that all those heresies against the divinity of christ were in his time so extinct , that not so much as any remainders of them were left ; but saith he , the true doctrines of the gospels prevail and spread themselves over the world. and we may find what course was taken for putting an end to this controversie , by the management of it with paulus samosatenus . in the fragment of an epistle of dionysius of alexandria , we read the testimonies of scripture which he produced against him ; and more at large in the epistle of the six bishops to him ; who makes use of the very same places of scripture which are most applied to that purpose to this day . to which they only add , that this had been the doctrine of the christian church from the beginning ; and all catholic churches agreed in it . but here is no such thing thought of as i●sallibility in the guides of the church ; for there is great difference between the consent of the christian church , as a means to find out the sense of scripture , and the authority of church guides declaring the sense by vertue of an insallible assistance ; the one is but a moral argument , and the other is a foundation of faith. theodoret further observes , that there was another set of heresies distinct from the two former in the primitive church , which related chiefly to matters of discipline and manners ; and most of these , he saith , were so far destroyed , t●at there were none th●n left , who were followers of nicolas , nepos , or patroclus , and very few novatians , or montanists , or quartodecemans ; so that truth had prevail●d over the world , and the heresies were either quite rooted out , or only some dry and withered branches remained of them in remote and obscure places . which being affirmed by a person of so much judgment and learning , as theodoret was , gives us a plain and evident proof , that the sense of scripture may be so fully clear'd , without an infallible church , as to be effectual for putting an end to controversies . and altho we own a great esteem and reverence for the four general councils ; yet we cannot but observe , that controversies were so far from being ended by them , that they broke out more violently after them . as the arian controversy after the council of nice ; the nestorian after that at eph●sus ; and these gentlemen believe that heresy continues still in the east : the eutychian controversy gave greater disturbance after the council of chalced●n , than before , and continued so to do for many ages : which is an argument that the infallibility of councils , or of the guides of the church , was not a doctrine then received in the church . but i proceed to shew what means were used in the primitive church for putting an end to controversies . of which we have a remarkable instance in the dispute about rebaptizing hereticks . this was managed between st. cyprian and other bishops of africa and asia , on one side , and the bishop of rome on the other . he pleaded custom and tradition : the other , that custom without truth was but ancient error ; and that the matter ought to be examined by scripture ; and many reasons they bring from thence ; because christ said in his gospel , i am truth ; and the only way to prevent errors , is to have recourse to the head and fountain of divine tradition , i. e. to the holy scriptures ; which st. cyprian calls the evangelical and apostolical tradition . so that we have the clear opinion of the african bishops , that this controversy ought to be decided by scripture . but here the replier saith , that right stood for the bishops of rome , and a general council determined the point , and the whole church came to an acquiescence . if the council was in the right , the bishop of rome was not ; if st. cyprian represent his opinion truly , and he saith he did it in his own words , which are , si quis a quacunque haeresi venerit ad nos , nihil innovetur nisi quod traditum est . now , no council ever determin'd so , that whatsoever the heresy was , none should ●e rebaptized . for the councils of arles and nice both disallow'd the baptism of some hereticks ; and therefore , if the council put an end to the controversy , it was by deciding against the bishop of rome , as well as st. cyprian . the donatists afterwards made use of st. cyprians authority in this controversy , which gave occasion to st. augustin , to deliver that noted sentence , concerning scripture and fathers , and councils , viz that anonical scripture is to be preferr'd before any other writings , for they are to be believed without examination ; but the writings of bishops are to be examined and corrected by other bishops and councils , if they see cause ; and lesser councils by greater , and the greatest councils , by such as come after them , when truth comes to be more fully diservered . it is hardly possible for a man to speak plainer against a stand●ng infallible judg in controversies , than st. augustin doth in these words , wherein he neither limits his words to matters of fact , nor to manners ; but he speaks generally , as to the authority of the guides of the church compared with scripture . which are enter'd in the authentick body of the canon law , approved and corrected at rome , only that part which relates to the correcting of councils , is left out . but to make amends , g●atian in another place , hath with admirable ingenuity , put the popes decretal epistles among the can●nical scriptures , and quotes st. augustin for it too . but the roman correctors were ashamed of so gross a forgery , and confess st. augustin never thought of the decretal epistles , but of the canonical scriptures ; but yet they 〈◊〉 itle stand for good canon law. in the controversy about the church with the donatists , st. augustin's constant appeal is to the scrip●● ; and he sets aside , not only particular doctors , hut the prete●● to miracles , and the definitions of councils . he doth not therefore appeal to scripture , because ●hey 〈◊〉 about the church : but because he looked on the testimonies of scripture , as clear enough to decide the point , as he often declares . and he calls the plain testimonies of scripture , the support and strength of their cause . if he then thought that scripture alone could put an end to such a controversy as that , no doubt he thought so as to any other . but we need not mention his thoughts , for he declares as much : whether it be about christ or his church , or any matter of faith , he makes scripture so far the rule , that he denouncess anathema against those who deliver any other doctrine than what is contained in them . nor doth he direct to any church authority to manifest the sense of scripture , but leaves all mankind to judg of it , and even the donatists themselves whom he opposed . the same way he takes with maximinus the arian , he desires all other authorities may be laid aside , and only those of scripture and reason used . to what purpose , unless he thought the scripture sufficient to end the controversy ? against faustus the manichean , he saith , the excellency of the canonical scripture is such , as to be placed in a threne far above all other writings , to which every faithful and pious mind ought to submit . all other writings are to be tried by them ; but there is no doubt to be made of whatever we find in them . the same method he uses with the p●lagians , an advises them to yeild to the authority of scripture , which can neither deceive nor be deceived . this controversy , saith he , requires a judg ; les christ judg , let us hear him speak . let the apostle judg with him , for christ speaks in his apostle . and in another place , let st. john sit judg between us . and in general he saith , we ought to acquiesce in the authority of scripture ; and when any controversy arises , it ought to be quietly ended by proofs brought from thence . but st. augustin is the man , whom the defender produces against me ; because against the manicheans , he saith , he believed the scripture for the sake of the church ; and to bring any proof out of scripture against the church , does weaken that authority , upon which he believed the scripture , and so he could believe neither . the meaning wherof is this , st. augustin was reduced from being a manichean to the catholick church by many arguments ; and by the authority of the church delivering the books of scripture , he embraced the gospel , which before he did not . now , saith he , you would make use of this gospel to prove manichaeus an apostle , i can by no means yield to this way . why so ? do not you believe it to be gospel ? yes , saith he ; but the same reason which moved me to embrace this gospel , moved me to reject manichaeus , and therefore i have no reason to allow a testimony out of it for manichaeus . not that st. augustine seared any proof that could be brought from thence ; but he begins with general topicks , as tertullian did against the hereticks of his time , before he came to close with them . and such was this which he here produces . for in case manichaeus his name had been in the gospel as an apostle of christs appointing , this argument of st. augustine had not been sufficient . for there might be sufficient reason from the churches authority to embrace the gospel ; and yet if the scripture had been plain , he ought to have believed manichaeus his apostleship , though the church disowned it . as i will prove by an undeniable instance : suppose a jewish proselyte to have argued just after the same manner against jesus being the messias ; the apostles go about to prove that he was so , by the testimony of the prophets : no , saith he , i can allow no such argument : because the same authority of the jewish church which perswaded me to believe the prophets , doth likewise perswade me not to believe jesus to be the messias . if it be so far from holding in this case , neither can it in the other . for it proceeds upon a very feeble supposition , that no church can deliver a book for canonical , but it must judg aright concerning all things relating to it . which unavoidably makes the jewish church infallible at the same time it condemned . christ as a deceiver . but this was only a witty velitation in st. augustine , used by rhetoricians , before he entered into the merits of the cause . and it is very hard when such sayings shall at every turn be quoted , against his more mature and well weighed judgment . what noise is there made in the world with that one saying of his , i should not believe the gospel , unless the authority os the cathelick church moved me ? and the defender brings it to prove the church more visible than scripture . whereas , he means no more by it , but that the authority of the church was greater to him , than that of manichaeus . for he had been swayed by his authority to reject the gospel ; and now he rejects that authority , and believes the catholick church rather than him . and this doth not make the churches authority greater than scripture , but more visible than that of manichaeus . but if st. augustin's testimony here be allowed to extend farther , yet it implies no more than that the constant , universal tradition of the scripture by the catholick church , makes it appear credible to us . what can be deduced hence as to the churches infallibility in interpreting scripture , or the roman churches authority in delivering it ? the arrian controversie gave a great disturbance to the christian church ; and no less a man than the emperour constantine thought there was no such way to put an end to it , as to search the scriptures about it ; as he declared to the council of nice at their meeting , as theodoret saith . it is true , he spake to the guides of the church assembled in council , but his words are remarkable , viz. that the books of scripture do plainly instruct us what we are to believe concerning the deity , if we search them with peaceable minds . methinks bellarmine bestows no great complement on constantine for this saying , when he saith , he was a great emperour , but no grea● doctor . this had been indeed sawcy and scurrilous in others , but it was no doubt good manners in him . st. hilary commends his son constantius , because he would have this controversie ended by the scriptures ; and he desires to be heard by him about the sense of the scriptures concerning it ; which he was ready to shew , not from new writings , but from gods word . athanasius seems to question the usefulness of councils in this matter , because the scripture of it self was sufficient to put an end to it . and elsewhere saith , that it is plain enough to those who search for truth . and in general he asserts their sufficiency and clearness for the discovery of truth . when a controversie was raised in st. basil's time about the trinity , the best expedient that great man could think of for putting an end to it , was to refer it to the scriptures . in another place he commends it as the best way to find out truth , to be much in the study of the scriptures ; and saith that the spirit of god did thereby lead to all things useful . epiphanius was well acquainted with all the heresies of the church , and the best means to suppress them ; and certainly he would never have taken such pains to refute so many heresies out of scripture , if he had look'd on the church as the infallible judg of controversies . for he not only undertakes to give the sense of scripture for the ending of controversies , but he supposes all persons capable of understanding it , that will apply themselves to it . which he several times affirms in the consutation of his last heresie . i shall conclude with st. chrysostome , who speaks to this purpose , to a person so offended at the sects and heresies among christians , that he did not know whom or what to believe : ●he scriptures , saith he are pla● and true , and it is an easie matter to judg by them ; if a man agrees with the s●●iptures , he is a christian ; if not , he is out of that ●oll . but men di●fer about the sense of scripture . what , saith he , h●ve ye not a 〈◊〉 and judgment ? and after the answering several other cav●ls , l● concludes , let us submit to the divine law , and d●● what is pleasing t● that and that will bring us to heaven . and in another place , if ●e s●udy the scriptures , we shall understand both true doctrine and a good li●e . and again , the scriptures are the door which k●●p out hereticks , which establish our minds in the truth , and suffer us not to be sedu●ed . thus i have given somewhat a clearer view of the sense of the primitive church in this m●tter , than could be taken from two single passages of tertullian and st. augustin ; and i have been so far from swelling or enlarging this as far as i could , that i have made choice only of these , out of many others which i could have produced . but if these be not sufficient , a volume will not satisfie ; which it were not hard to make on this subject , out of the fathers . ( ) it is time now to examine the inconveniencies alledged against persons judging of matters of faith according to the scriptures : ( ) that god almighty would then leave us at uncertainties , if he gave us a rule , and ●eft every one to be his own iudg ; for that were to leave every phantastical m●n to c●use as he pleases . to this was answered , ( ) that this objection doth not reach those of the church of englan● , which receives the three creeds , and embraces the four general councils , and professes to hold nothing contrary to any u●iversal tradition of the church from the apostles times . and that we have often offer'd to put the controversies between us and the church of rome upon that issue . to this answer the replier saith , that they do not charge our church with not prof●ssing these things , but for erring against her own prof●ssion , and deserting that church to which all these authorities bear testimony , and of which her progenitors and first reformers had been members , and from whose hands she received what soever she had , either of scripture , creeds , councils or tradition , and consequently whose judgment she was bound to follow . whether we act against our profession or not , it is plain the rule of our church doth not by this profession leave every one to follow his own fancy , and to believe as he pl●ses . but wherein is it that we thus act against our profession ? do we reject the ●reeds , councils , and universal tradition in our deeds ? wherein ? in deserting the communion of the church of rome ? and is the necessity of th●t contained in the creeds here receiv'd ? in the ●our councils ? ●y universal tradition ? for this i refer to the foregoing d●scourse about the unity of the catholick church . but we receiv'd these thi●gs from the church of rome . so we do the old t●stament from the jews , must we therefore hold communion still with them ? are we bound therefore to follow the judgment of the jewish chur●● ? but i do not understand how we receiv'd these things from the authority of the church of rome . we receiv'd the scriptures from universal tradition derived from all the apostolical ●hurches ; and so the creeds and councils ; and such an universal tradition is the thing we desire ; for the trent-creed , our forefathers never knew or receiv'd as part of that faith without which there is no salvation . but here the defender grows brisk , and saith , all hereticks since the first ●our general councils , may say the very same which i say for the church of england ; and all before them the equivalent . arius , macedonius , nestorius , and entyches , might have said as much of the cr●eds before them ; and all complain of the villainous fact●ns in the church against them . my plea for the church of england hath justified them all . [ the same thing is said in sewer words by the replier . ] that this plea justifies the arrians , and condemns the nicene fathers , vindicates the eutychians nestorians , and donatists , and confounds all general councils . lest therefore i should seem to betray the church of england , instead of defending it , i shall shew the reasonableness and equity of this plea , and its great difference from that of the ancient hereticks condemned by general councils , or the ancient church . ( ) the ancient hereticks were condemned by that rule of faith which the church always receiv'd , v z. the scriptures ; but the council of t●ent set up a new rule of faith on purpose that they might condemn us for hereticks , viz. in making tradition equal with scripture , which is directly contrary to the doctrine of the primitive church ; as i have already shewed . the method of general councils was to have the books of scripture placed in the middle of them on a table , as the rule they were to judg by . and richerius , a doct●● of the scrbon , not only affirms the custom , but sai●h it was for 〈◊〉 reason , that the fathers of the councils might be admonished , that all things were to be examined by the standard of the gospel . bellarmin affirms the council of nice , to have drawn its conclusion out of scriptures ; and the same he affirms of the th general council ; and he might as well have done it of the rest ; their main design , being only to establish the doctrine of the divinity and incarnation of christ. but the case of councils came to be very different , when they took upon them to define other matters for which they had no colour in scripture ( as the d council of nice did , which was the first that went upon tradition ) and then the christian church did not shew such respect to them ; as was most apparent in the case of this council of nice , which was universally rejected in these western parts , ( rome excepted ) as appears by the council of fran●ford , and the unexceptionable testimonies of eghinardus , hincmarus , and others . would this have been a sufficient argument against charlemaign and the western bishops , that they joyned in the plea of the ancient hereticks , and none were ever condemned by the church , but they made such complaints against the proceedings of councils , as they did ? it is certain that leo armenus in the east , as well as charles , and the western church , rejected that council , as contrary to scripture ; which shews that neither in the east or west , did they think themselves so tied up by definitions of councils , proceeding in such a manner ; but that they were at full liberty to examin , and if they saw cause , to reject such definitions . while councils did declare , that they intended to make use of no other rule but scripture , and to deliver only the sense of the catholick church from the beginning , a great regard was to be shew'd to them : but when they set up another rule , the christian church had just reason not to submit to their decrees . and to say , this is the plea of all hereticks , is just as if an innocent person might not be allowed to plead not guilty , because the greatest malefactors do the same . there must be some certain rules whereby to proceed in this matter : and this is the first we fix upon , that they proceed as the ancient councils did according to scriptures . ( . ) the ancient hereticks were condemned by such councils , as did represent the universal church after another manner , than the council of trent did . i do not say , there was ever such a general council , as did fully represent the universal church , which could not be done without provincial councils summon'd b●●ore in all parts of christendom , and the de●●egation from them of such persons as were to deliver their sense ●n the matter of faith , to be debated in the general council ; and i have reason to question whether this were ever done . but however , there is a very great difference in the ancient councils from the modern , as to this point of representing , for in them there was the consent of all the patriarchs , and a general summons for the bishops from all parts to appear . but in the modern councils , four patriarchs , and the bishops under them , have been excluded ; and the th hath summon'd the bishops under him to meet together , and then hath called this a general council . which is just as if in the time of the heptarchy , the king of mercia should assemble the states under him , and call the convention of them , the parliament of england . thus in the council of trent , the pope summons the bishops that owned his supremacy , and had taken oaths to him , to meet together , and would have this pass for a general council . when the council met , and cardinal hosius was appointed president in it ; stanistaus orechovius , a warm and zealous romanist , writes to hosius , that it would very much conduce to their reputation and interest , if the patriarchs of constantinople and antioch , were summon'd to the council , because the greeks and armenians depended upon them : and he could not understand how the catholick church could be represented without them , nor how the council could be called oecumenical . to which hosivs replied , that the pope being oecumenical patriarch , a council called by him , was an oecumenical council . now this we say , is extreamly different from the notion of an oecumenical council in the ancient times , and overthrows the rights of other churches , as they were setled by the four general councils ; and therefore the case is very different as to being condemnd by general councils , and by the late conventions assembled by the popes authority . ( . ) themselves allow that some councils may be , and ought to be rejected ; and therefore all our business is to enquire whether we may not with as much reason reject some councils , as they do others . they reject the council of ariminum , which together with that of s●leucia ( which sat at the same time ) make up the most general council we read of in church-history . for bellarmin owns that there were . bishops in the western part of it . so that there were many more bishops assembled than were in the council of nice ; there was no exception against the summons , or the bishops present ; and yet the authority of this council is rejected , because it was too much influenced by constantius , and his agents . the d council of ephesus wanted no just summons , no presence of patriarchs , or number of bishops , yet this is rejected , because its proceedings were too violent . the councils of constantinople against images are rejected ; because , but one patriarch was present in either of them . now i desire to know , whether it be not as lawful to except against other councils , as against these , supposing the reasons to be the same ; and greater evidence to be given in these latter times , of the truth of the allegations . besides , we find they are divided in the church of rome , concerning their latter councils : some say , the councils of pisa , constance and basil , were true general councils , and that the council of lateran under leo x. was not so ; others say , that the former have not the authority of general councils , but the latter hath . some say , that there have been . general councils ; so the roman editors of the councils , and others ; but a great number of these are rejected by others , who allow but . of the number , viz. those wherein the eastern and western bishops met . and so the councils of lateran and trent , besides others , are cut off . what becomes then of the articles of faith , defined by those councils ? for they cannot be received on the account of their authority . however , we find this objection lies equally against them , as against us . for , do not both these differing parties side with the ancient hereticks , as much as we do ? for they except against the supreme judicature in the church , and decline the judgment of these councils , as much as those hereticks did the councils of their own times . these are therefore but ordinary t●picks , which may be reasonble or not , as they are applied . ( . ) it was answer'd , that the way proposed , doth not hinder mens believing as they please , i. e. without sufficient reason for their faith ; several instances were given : as , believing the roman church to be the catholick , without any colour of scripture , reason or antiquity ; ( as is now fully shew'd in the foregoing discourse ) believing against the most convincing evidence of their own senses . believing the lawfulness of the worship of images can be reconciled with gods forbidding it ; the communion in one kind with christs institution ; and praying in an unknow tongue , with the chap●er of the first epistle to the corinthians . to this the replier saith only , that these are voluntary assumpti on s without proof : and his saying so , needs no answer . the defender shelters himself under the catholick church , and resolves not to put to sea with the answerer about these things . but he knows very well , we utterly deny any of these to have been the practice of the universal church according to vincentius lerinensis his rules ; by which we are content to be tried . and although he seems to wish for such a trial , yet i know a reason why they ought to decline it , because i am certain they can never make it good in any one of them . ( ) the second inconvenience objected was , that this would make the wisdom of god fall beneath the discretion of prudent law-givers ; who do not make laws , and leave every man to be his own judg as to right or wrong . it was answered three ways : ( ) that there are inconveniencies on both sides , and one ought to be provided against , as well as the other ; sor as the people are not to be their own judges , so it may happen that an usurper may pretend to the right of interpreting the laws , only to justifie his usurpation . ( ) that the people are allowed in some sense to interpret the laws , or else they could never understand the duty they owe to their lawful king , and to justifie his rights against all the pretences of usurpers . to this the replier saith nothing , and the defender saith that which is next to nothing to the first , and takes no notice of the second answer ; and i think i therein tell him plainly enough , what i would be at . he saith , i mean receiving and holding the true faith by usurpation . nothing was farther from my thoughts . but i had thought it were easie enough to know whom i meant , viz. such a one as pretends to an infallible chair , which they cannot deny themselves to be the highest usurpation , if he cannot prove his title by scripture , as we are sure he cannot . ( ) that in this case a rule is given to direct persons in the way to heaven , and therefore must be capable of being understood by those who are to make use of it for that end . which being the greatest concernment to mankind , they are therefore obliged to search into it for their own salvation ; but we exclude not the help of spiritual guides , and embrace the ancient creeds of the church . to this the replier answers two things : ( ) that an infallible guide is necessary to secure persons from wilful errors , which he saith god hath provided . from wilful error ! this is new doctrine indeed , that god hath provided a remedy for wilful error . had not our saviour himself an infallible spirit , and yet we do not read that ever he secured men from wilful error ? or ever designed to do it . but suppose an infallible judg could do this , he doth not tell us where he is to be found , who he is , and in what manner he doth thus secure men , which are very necessary enquiries ; and without being satisfied in all these points , we are still left to be our own judges , so far as concerns the way to salvation ; since at the day of judgment we must answer for our selves , than which there can be no greater obligation to care and sincerity in judging . suppose a mans life depends upon the benefit of his clergy , and one comes to him and tells him , you are an ignorant man , and liable to great mistakes in reading , therefore i advise you by no means to trust to your own skill in reading , for it is a horrible dark letter , and many have been mistaken that were more book learned than you ; therefore take my counsel , there is mr. ordinary who understands book-learning a thousand times better than you or i , trust him for the reading , and no doubt you will escape . ay , sir , saith the man , all that is very true that you say , but my life lies at stake ; and how if mr. ordinary's reading will not be allow'd by the judg for mine , then i am a lost man past recovery ; therefore i am resolved to learn to read my self ; and to that end i will make the best use of his skill to instruct me before-hand that i may be able to answer for my self . this needs no application . but i do not see how an inf●●lible 〈◊〉 should be necessary to particular persons in order to 〈◊〉 salvation , upon the ●rinciples owned and receiv'd by the greatest divines in the roman church . for aquinas determines that every one that hath saving grace , hath likewise a gift of understanding whereby h● is ●ussiciently instructed in all things necessary to salvation , and that it is never withdrawn from them as to those things . if this doctrine hold good , i do not see any such necessity for persons to look after an infallible guide , as there is to look after saving grace . gulielmus parisiensis saith , that mens not looking after the way of salvation themselves , is that which will d●mn them . and in case of difference among guides , if a man sincerely makes application to god , to know the truth he doth not question but such is the mercy of god to keep such a one from dangerous error ; or if he doth suffer him to fall into error with a good mind , it shall not be imputed to him . it is a doctrine generally receiv'd in the schools , that where ever god doth bestow his grace , there goes along with it such a gift of understanding , as keeps them from being deceived in the matters they believe in order to salvation . henricus a gandavo thus expresses it , that as faith makes the mind to rest on the authority of the scripture , so this gift of understanding makes them perceive the truth of what they are to believe . and what need then such an infallible guide ? ( ) he saith , that ancient creeds will not serve , unless there be a power in the church to make n●w decisions in matters of faith. this ought to have been a little proved . for in truth we are apt to think the faith once delivered to the saints as suffi●ient to carry us to heaven , as it was in the apostles times . a man is heir to a good estate , which by many generations is derived down from his ancestors , and he hath the original deeds in his hands ; one comes to him and tells him , ●t is a very fine estate you are heir to , and it is a thousand pities you should want a good title to it ; i will put you into a way to get it , if you will give up your musty old deeds , and put your self into the hands of such persons as i shall name to you , they shall make you a new settlement , and add several parcels to your estate which you had not before . i am content , saith the heir , with my ancestors estate , and i will never part with my old deeds for all your new settlements ; for i am sure my ancestors would never deceive me ; but i know not what designs you with your new settlements may have upon me , and therefore i pray let me alone with my old deeds . the defender here dances upon ropes , he makes swift and quick motions , but he stands on a slender bottom , and he knows not whereon to fix , but would seem ●o say something , but not enough to afford scope for an answer . that which he aims at , is , that unless a man by judging controversies by the infallible rule , be able to come to an infallible determination , then controversies will not be infallibly determined , if every man be left to be his own judg. and i am clearly of his mind . but the point is , whether such an infallible determination of controversies be the necessary way to heaven ? if a man can judg well enough to carry him thither , that is as much as i am concerned for at present . but he goes on . who can hope to he saved without pleasing god ? and every body knows that without faith it is impossible to please him . there wants only one little thing to be added , and without an infallible judg of controversies , there can be no faith. but this was forgotten . but after all he saith , i confess that scripture is not the rule of controversies . i pray why ? for i take it not only to be the rule , but to be the only rule . for , saith he , they are not ended till one side or other be certain . ●hat then ? is there no rule that doth not put an end to controversies ? nay their own writers say a rule , as a rule cannot put an end to them , and therefore a judg is necessary . but i must answer such things as they bring . in matters of good and evil , i said every mans conscience is his immediate judg , and why not in matters of truth and falshood ; unless we suppose mens involuntary mistakes to be more dangerous than their wilful sins . here the defender triumphs . how ? saith he , are we before we are aware come to conscience at last ? i heartily wish we were , t●●t would tend more to the ending of controversies than an infallible judg. but he wonders that in disputes of religion it should before we are aware come to conscienoe at last . good man ! he was not aware that there was any thing of conscience in the matter . doth he think it is only matter of interest we contend about ? so those who believe no religion themselves , think all controversies about religion , to have nothing of conscience in them . but after a long harangue , he saith , toat conscience can do no more than secure a man from being judged for sinning against his conscience : but if it lead him to do ill things , or embrace a ●r●ng faith , what can he answer for the sin of having that conscience ? i grant where it is a sin to have such a conscience , the conscience doth not excuse the faults a man commits by it . but the question we are upon is , whether it is not a sin for a man to have such a conscience ; and we are not upon the point of an erroneous conscience , but of an infallible judg of conscience in matters of good and evil . and it is strange the defender should not see this . there is no question , but there are as disputable points in morality , as in matters of faith ; and we think mens committing sin , is at least as dangerous to their souls , as embracing what they call heresy . now i desire to know , why it is not as necessary to have an infallible guide in manners , as in faith ? but , if they think that men may be let alone to judg as well as they can in such matters , as their salvation certainly depends upon , what monstrous inconvenience is it , if they use the same liberty in matters of speculation ? i would he had given some better answer , that i might have had an occasion to have inforced this matter . for in truth it seems to me , a very strange thing , when i read in the new testament , such terrible denunciations against the practice of sin , and that mens happiness or misery depends so much on their doing good or evil ; and so very little said as to mens errors or mistakes of judgment ( where there is a general sincerity , as to a good life , and a care to please god ) that so much weight should be laid on an infallible judg in matters of controversy , and no care taken for an infallible guide in matters of practice . but i am to consider , that it tends more to the interest of some people to swagger about an infallible faith , than to secure the practice of virtue , and a good life , which yet is certainly the great design and concernment of the christian religion , however it may seem to some , that an infallible faith and church are all in all . to shew we do not allow every man to believe as he pleases , i said , we not only allow the assistance of spiritual guides , and embrace the ancient creeds ; but think no man ought to follow his own fancy , against doctrines so universally received from the apostles times . but all this signifies nothing to him , unless our guides be infallible ; and he saith , they are plainly no guides of christs appointing , who teach any other doctrine than he taught . very well ! let this then be the rule , whereby we are to judg whether guides are infallible or not . but then have a care of telling us we must believe what . doctrine it was that christ taught , upon the word of these infallible guides , for by that doctrine we are to judg whether they be infallible or not . the different methods of his proceeding and mine in this matter , will be best understood by this comparison . a man that goes to enquire the way to a place ( he had a great desire to be at , but was afraid of mistaking the way ) of two men , and how he should avoid the dangerous passages in it ; the one like a plain ho●●st man , tells him there are diffi●ulties in it , but he will give him a book of the roads , which acqu●ints him with all the dangerous turnings he bids h●m look well to his steps , and observe the way he goes , and when he is to seek to ●e●rch his book , and ask such as understand the wav better th●n he does● alas ! ●aith the other man , this is a very sad direction to him , for his book may be misunderstood , and the guides may mistake themselves with all their care ; but i will put him into an infallible way , whereby he may avoid all the dangers . ay sir , saith the traveller , you speak indeed to the purpose , i pray acquaint me with it . there is , saith he to him , at such a hill , a person , who by the help of wings , not only flies over all that dangerous passage , but carries all those safe , who take hold of him : you have therefore no better way than to pinion your self to him , and you will be safe but saith the traveller , how if he and i should tumble down together , what would become of us both ? never fear that , saith he : but how should i help fearing of it ? have any that he carried thither , come back and assured others of the safety of the passage ? no. but how then ? why saith he , you are bound to believe what he saith , for he affirms that he can do it . but , saith the traveller , this is very hard i must venture body and soul upon his skill and strength , and i must take his word that he hath both . this seems very unreasonable to me , and therefore i am resolved to take the other course , which tho it do not make such big boasts of it self , is much more likely to be safe in the conclusion , having better reason on its side , and requiring a more constant care of my self , to which god hath promis'd more of his grace and assistance to secure me from all fatal mistakes of my way . where i mention doctrines so universally received in the christian church from the apostles times , as those in the creeds ; the defender makes a notable exception , as if , saith he , any part of the universal christian doctrine were lost , and all had not be●n always as universally retained as the creeds . then i hope all the points in controversy between us and them ▪ can be proved by as clear and evident a succession , as the articles of the creeds . if he can do this , he will be a ●ampion indeed . i desire him to take his choice , either supremacy , transubstantiation , infallibility of the roman catholick church , or which he pleases . i grant all true christian doctrine was universally retained , as far as the rule of it was so received ; but if he means any of those distinguishing points between us and them , when he comes to make it out , he will be of another mind . ( . ) a third inconvenience objected in the papers , against the want of an infallible judg , was , that scripture would be interpreted by fancy ; which is the same thing as to follow fancy . to this it was answer'd . ( . ) that our church owns the creeds , councils , fathers , and primitive church , more frankly than any other church , and therefore cannot be suspected to leave scripture to be so interpreted . the replier saith , we only pretend it , and do it not . that is to be proved , for bare saying it , will never convince us . but his proof is , because , if we had done it , we had never deserted the church of rome ; and our answer is , we therefore deserted the communion of that church , because she required owning things from us , for which she had no authority , either from scripture , creeds , councils or fathers . the defender would have me answer directly , whether it be not the same to follow fancy , as to interpret scripture by it ? as tho i were examined at the catechism , which requires all answers to be made by yea or nay . i said enough to shew the question doth not concern us ; for we do not allow persons to interpret scripture by fancy . and withal . ( . ) i asked some other questions to shew , that those who pretend to infallibity , may do things as unreasonable as leaving scripture to be interpreted by fancy . and i have our saviours example for answering one question with another . the instances i gave , were these ; the church of romes assuming to it self the power of interpreting the rule , which concerns its own power of interpreting ; which was to make it judg in its own cause , and to give it as great power , as if it made the rule ; and i further added , that interest is as mischievous an interpreter of scripture , as fancy ; and therefore , those who are so much concerned , are not to be relied on , either in councils , or out . the power of declaring tradition is as arbitrary a thing in the church of rome , as interpreting scripture by fancy . there being no other rule allowed by it , but the sense of the present church . the replier , like a fair adversary , gives his answer plainly ; which consists in two things . ( . ) that their church gives no sense of scripture , but what she received from tradition of the foregoing church , and so he calls it apostolical tradition . but suppose there happen a question , whether it be so or not , must not all be resolved into the authority of the present church , declaring what is apostolical tradition ? and so it comes all to one . ( . ) he saith , tradition is publick , and fancy is private . but i say , according to their rules , tradition is but publick fancy , and so fancy in particular persons is a private tradition ; but whether publick or private , if it be equally arbitrary , the case is alike . the defender saith , all this is besides the business , and therefore slides off as well as he can , with some slight touches , which deserve no answer . ( . ) if there be no infallible judg , the power of deciding matters of faith will be given to every particular man , for which no place can be shewed . the answer was , that if by deciding matters of faith , no more be meant , but every mans being satisfied of the reasons , why he believes one thing to be true , and not another ; that belongs to every man as he is bound to take care of his soul , and must give an account both to god and man , of the reason of his faith. this , the replier saith , is bringing every article of faith to the test of ones own reason ; whereas authority is the correlative of believing , and reason of knowledg . we do not pretend that every one that believes , should be able to judg from meer principles of reason of the credibility of the doctrine propos'd ; it is sufficient , if he finds it to be of divine revelation , by being contained in gods word . and it is not the authority of the church , but of divine revelation , which faith bottoms upon ; the former is no more than an inducement to believe those books we call scripture , to contain the word of god in them . but when we find any doctrine therein , we account that sufficient reason for believing it . the defender finds no fault with our saying , we ought to be satisfied of the reason why we believe ; but the question he puts , is , whether there be indeed any reasons why they should believe besides the authority of the church ? he doth not deny that particular men ought to judg ; but the meaning of the papers , he saith , is , that they ought not to judg unreasonably . then we have no difference , for i assure him i never pleaded for mens judging unreasonably . the question then between us , is , whether those who do not believe upon the infallible authority of the roman catholick church , do judg unreasonably ? i. e. whether there be equal grounds to believe the roman catholick church infallible , as there are to believe the scriptures to be the word of god ? we utterly deny the roman churches infallibility to be necessary to our believing the scripture ; for we receive that by an universal tradition from all the apostolical churches ; which is as clear for this , as it is wanting for the other . and there●●re we must judg more reasonably . what follows about the infallibility promised to the church , hath been answered already . as to the canonical book , i shewed it was no authoritative decision by a power in the church to make books canonical which were not so , but a meer giving testimony in a matter of fact , in which all parts of the church are concerned ; and it depends as other matters of fact do , on the skill and fidelity of the reporters : and so far i own the truly catholick church to have authority in any testimony , delivering down the books of scripture ; but this proves no more infallibility in the christian church as to the books of the new testament , than it doth in the jewish church as to the books of the old testament . and thus much of the authority of the catholick church in matters of faith. iii. of the reformation of the church of england . there are so many passages in the papers relating to the church of england , on the account of her reformation , that i thought it the best method of proceeding to handle this subject by itself . and there are these things charged upon it , either in terms or by consequence , in the papers , which as i am a member of this church , i think my self bound to clear ; for i could nor justifie continuing in her communion , if she were justly liable to these imputations . . that she hath made a causless breach in the communion of the catholick church . . that she hath been the occasion of a world of heresies crept into this nation . . that she hath not sufficient authority within her self , and yet denies an appeal to a higher judicature . . that she contradicts her own rule , viz. the holy scriptures . . that she subsists only on the pleasure of the civil magistrate . all these i shall examine with care , and consider what hath been said in defence of the papers upon these heads . as to the charge of causless breach in the communion of the catholick church , it lies in these words , and by what authority men separate themselves from that church ? which being spoken with respect to the members of the church of england , do imply that they have made a separation from the communion of the catholick church , and that they had no sufficient authority for so doing , and therefore are guily of schism in it . to the question two answers were given , . by distinguishing the truly catholick church from the roman catholick : and a distinction between these being made out , ( which is done in the first part of this defence ) it doth not follow that we have made a breach in the communion of the catholick church , because we do not join in communion with the roman catholick : this was illustrated by the example of a prosperous usurper in a kingdom , who challenges a title to the whole , by gaining a considerable part of it , and requires from all the kings subjects within his power , to own him to be rightful king ; whereupon the question was put , whether refusing to do it , were an act of rebellion or of loyalty ? so in the church , the popes authority over it , so as to restrain catholick communion only to those who own it , is not only looked on as an usurpation by us , but by all the eastern churches ; and is in truth altering the terms of christian communion from what they were in the truly catholick and apostolick church : therefore since the conditions required are unreasonable , because different from them , what breach hath followed , is not to be imputed to those who refuse these terms , but to those who impose them ; and so the guilt of it lies upon the church of rome , and not upon the church of england . this is the substance of the answer . to which the replier saith , that the eastern churches cannot be parts of the catholick church , because they hold not the apostolick doctrine contained in the creeds and councils owned by the church of england . this hath been fully answered already . but he goes on , there were no other churches then in being , but those which were in communion with the church of rome ; consequently the church of england going out from them , separated her self from the catholick apostolick church . and the defender saith , he expects i should shew that truely catholick and apostolick church we held communion with , when we separated from the roman . he desires to know where the men live , that people may go to them , and learn of them , what their faith is , &c. in answer to this , i say , that there is no necessity for us to shew any church distinct from others , which in all things we agreed with ; because we hold all particular churches liable to errors and corruptions ; and that the notion of the catholick church may take in such particulars from which we may see reason to dissent : but we do not thereby exclude them from being parts of the catholick church ; but we say they are no infallible rule to us , and therefore we ought to proceed by what the church hath receiv'd as an infallible rule , and not by the communion of other churches . and supposing there were no particular church we did in all things joyn with , the church of england might reform it self without separating from the catholick apostolick church . for it was then in the case , particular churches were in after the councils of ariminum and seleucia ; for then the standard of catholick communion , set up by the council of nice ▪ was taken down ; and the setting of it up again , was to oppose the consent of the christian church in the most general council that ever assembled . i do not say , this council obliged men to profess arrianism ; but that it took away the authority of the nicene creed in as valid a manner as the council by its acts could do it ; i ask then , by what authority any particular church could set up the nicene faith ; and if not , how it was possible to be restored ? and i desire to know in what country the people lived , who then owned the nicene faith against such a general council ? and where were the churches in being , which at that time adhered to it ? but if in this case the british church , tho alone , was bound notwithstanding such a general consent , to reform it self , and to restore the authority of the nicene creed ; the same case it is , when the western church was oppressed and hindered from reforming errors and abuses by the usurpation and tyranny of the papal faction ; the church of england was then obliged to exercise its own inherent right , in bringing things to the state they were in , in the time of the first general councils . in matters of reformation , the main enquiries are , whether there be just occasion , and due authority for it , and a certain rule to proceed by ; the last and least important question is , what company we have to joyn with us in it ? for there is a natural right i● every church to preserve its own just liberties , and consequently to throw off such an usurpation as that of the popes was . and the main point in order to a reformation , was casting off the popes power , as an encroachment upon the ancient and canonical priviledges of the western churches , which was done here by a general consent even of those bishops , who held in communion with the roman church , as far as those could do who rejected the head of it . and this is the fundamental point as to the matter of schism : if the pope , as head of the church , doth influ●●ce catholick communion so far , that it is necessary to salvation to live in subjection to him , it will be very hard to justify separation from that body whereof he is the visible head. but if there be no scripture , no councils , no universal tradition for this , as the roman catholick bishops here declared in the time of h. . then there can be no schism in acting without authority from him , or against his authority . and whether any other church joyned with ours or not , is no more material to the justification of the reformation , than the lawfulness of any one counties acting for the royal family in the late times of usurpation , did depend upon the concurrence of others with it . what more commonly talked of , and magnified in the church of rome , than the reformation of the m●nastick orders ? and some of the person● have been canonized who have done it ; but in this case , the governour of a monastick order , proceeding according to the rules of his order , doth a very justifiable thing , tho never another monastry joyn with him in it ; because he only doth his duty , and proceeds by the rules which are receiv'd by the whole order . this , i say , was the case of the church of england in reforming according to scripture , and the sense of the primitive church ; and if others joyned , so much the better ; if not , the act justifies it self , and needs not the concurrence of others to make it good . ( . ) the d answer was , that there is a difference between voluntary separation , and that which is unavoidable , in case unreasonable conditions of communion be required . the defender pretends he can by no means understand this unavoidable separation ; because tho men be separated from the communion of a church , yet they may continue of the same faith if they please : but if they have another faith , they separate themselves , even supposing usurpation , or whatever i would have . now this seems very strange to me from a person who knows the terms of communion with the roman church . can any man be a true member thereof , who doth not own and profess to believe the popes supremacy , transubstantiation , &c. is he not by the constitution of that church required to believe all that the roman church believes ? but suppose men do not , and cannot for their hearts believe as that church believes ; can they notwithstanding be members of it ? no , he confesses a different faith unavoidably casts them out . but then to believe otherwise than the roman church believes , casts them out unavoidably . the question now is , who is the cause of this casting out , those who cannot believe those doctrines , or those who require the belief of them in order to communion ? if these doctrines be evident in scripture , or were defined by the four general councils , or are contained in the ancient creeds , or can be clearly proved by universal tradition , then we confess the blame falls on those who refuse ; but if none of those can be made appear to the satisfaction of a mans mind who desires to search out truth , then their separation is unavoidable , and there is no reason to make it their voluntary act . but , saith the defender , a mans faith is his own voluntary act . i grant that ; but not a voluntary cause of separation : which two ought to be distinguished in this case . as in the case of usurpation , the owning the lawful king is a voluntary act ; but if an usurper threatens to banish him if he doth not abj●re him ; upon whom must the blame be laid , upon the mans voluntary act , or the usurpers voluntary imposing such a penalty on those who do nothing but what is just ? the defender did not consider that the making such terms of communion was a voluntary act too , and being a thing unreasonable and unjust , it leaves the blame upon the imposers . but he denies any such thing as usurpation in the p●pe , because he hath shewed by his reiterated approbation of the bishop of meaux's book , that he is content with that submission and obedience , which the holy councils and fathers have always ta●ght the faithful . these are very fine words to deceive the unwary . but i pray tell us , who is to declare what the councils and fathers have always taught the faithful ? who is to be judg ? is not the pope himself ? for no council will be allowed without his approbation and confirmation . and is not this then a very pretty artifice to draw weak persons into a snare ? for my part , i do not wonder at the popes approbation of the bishop of meaux's book , no more than i would at a gentlemans approbation of a fine spun net when he goes a fishing , which is not so easily discerned , and yet doth as effectually catch the game : some there are still who love to be deceived , and some have more arts of deceiving than others ; and those who gain most by it , will be sure to give them the greatest approbation . the defender proceeds : suppose there were usurpation , must people therefore believe otherwise than they did before ; as that there is no change of substance , no purgatory , no more than two sacraments , and the rest ? the question about faith is one thing , and about separation is another . we are now upon the latter of these ; and in this case we are most concerned about the popes authority , since he is look'd on by you as the head of the catholick church , and the center of communion . if there were no such usurpation , yet we should never decline giving an account of the reasons of our faith , as to sacraments , purgatory , or what you please of the points in difference between us . which i neither desire to make greater or lesser , than really they are . for there may be deceit both ways . as to his renewing the question , by what authority we separate ? i answer , by the same authority which makes it unlawful for us to profess what we do not believe ; and to practise what we believe god hath forbidden : this is just as if one should ask by what authority men are bound to be honest and sincere ; and to prefer gods laws before mens ? for the church of rome requires from the members of her communion , besides matters of faith , such acts of worship , which , whatever they be , to those who believe as they do , must be idolatrous to those that believe as we do . for example , suppose in china where they believe god to be the same with the world , that honour of the chineses ( who on that account think they may lawfully give divine worship to any part of the world ) to be converted by the missionaries , who tell them the parts of the world cannot be god , for he is infinite and immutable , and wise , and powerful , which the parts of the world are not , and cannot be , and therefore they cannot without idolatry give divine worship to them ; the mandarins require their giving the same adorations that others do ; they refuse and say , whatever you may do , who believe god and the world to be the same , certainly it would be gross idolatry in us , who believe the thing you worship , to be nothing but dull insensible parts of the world. and if now it should be asked , by what authority they separate ? is there not a plain answer , by the authority of god himself , who requires adoration to be given to himself alone ? but who shall be judg , saith the defender ? god himself will be judg a● the great day , whether we will or not . and i think that is more to be regarded , than putting an end to controversies . if we be not sincere and faithful to him and his service , if we do not act and judg with a regard to the judgment of that day , all the pretences in the world of a judg in controversies , then will stand in no stead . if we do use our careful endeavours to know the will of god , and to do it , we have great reason to hope god will shew mercy to us ; and then the question will not appear of such wonderful importance , who shall be judg here ? but we do not decline a reasonable judgment in this world ; we only desire our judges may be fair and equal , and such as god hath appointed . and if those who would judg for us , pretend that they have a divine commission , we desire to know who shall be judg of this pretence ? we have no reason to trust them ; and they will not trust us . so that here we are stopt at first , unless the commission be produced , which impowers those persons to judg , who challenge such authority over our judgments . a general indefinite obscure commission , which may extend to all other guides in the church as well as to them , will by no means be sufficient . let us see whom christ hath appointed in his own words , and we will submit ; for we look on him as supreme judg and legislator to his church ; and if he hath thought fit to appoint an infallible judg , we have done . but we desire to know where he hath done it ? hath he granted any new commission from heaven ? no. is it to be found in scripture ? yes . but then i pray observe , you tell us scripture cannot be judg in any controversie , being ambiguous , uncertain , general , mute , flexible , and what not ? and because it cannot hear parties , nor give a decisive voice , it can by no means be a judg of controversies . how then can the scripture put an end to this controversie , when it can put an end to none ? are the expressions in this matter so particular , so clear , so peremptory , that we cannot mistake about the sense of them ? if so , then i perceive , notwithstanding all the hard words given it , scripture may be judg as well as a rule , because it is fitted to put an end to such a controversie , which is as doubtful as any ; and why not as well to all the rest ? we are not then afraid of this question , who shall be judg ? but we desire to be satisfied about it ; and to know not only who hath appointed him , but who he is , whether the pope in cathedr● , or a general council ? for this is very material for us to know , since even at this day you are far from being agreed about it . the assembly of the clergy of france have solemnly declared within few years , that they do not believe the popes judgment to be infallible . the clergy of hungary have rejected and censured this declaration as absurd and detestable , and have forbidden any to read , hold or teach the doctrine , and own the pope to be the only infallible judg of controversies . a sorbon doctor in his notes on the hungarian censure , calls this , the new heresie of the jesuits ; on the other side , large volumes have been printed to prove , that the right of judging infallibly , belongs only to the pope . and now very lately comes out a learned book by another doctor of the sorbon , to prove not only that the popes judgment is not infallible , but that it is a dangerous thing to believe it ; and that no man ought to do it , unless infallible proof be brought of it . but he proves at large , that not so much as probable evidence can be brought for it , either from scripture or tradition . i pray now the defender to tell me , who is the judg ? is the pope infallible or not ? it is easily answer'd i , or no. and it is necessary to be answer'd , if we must know , who is the judg ? the common evasion is , that you are agreed , that popes and councils together are ; but this is but an evasion . for the infallibility is by virtue of divine promises , ●●d those must either relate to the church as the subject of them or to the successors of st. peter in their capacity as such . if to the former , the popes have nothing to do in it , but as included in the church ; if the latter , the councils have no infallibility , but the pope . to say the council is infallible , when confirmed by the pope , is nonsense . for , either it was infallible in its decree , or not . if not , it can borrow no infallibility from the popes subsequent confirmation ; but the popes judgment may be said to be infallible , but by no means the councils . and du pin hath proved , that there cannot be two seats of infallibility ; for whereever there is infallibility , it can receive no addition or force from another infallibility ; and whatever is infallible , must be believed for it self , and not depend on anothers judgment . and therefore i again desire the defender to make no harangues about this matter , but to answer directly , who is the judg ? for we would sain be acquainted with this some body , as he speaks ; but i am afraid his some body of infallibility , will prove a more pleasing dream than what he charges me with in what follows . i had given a fair account of the proceedings in england upon the reformation , how the search began , the popes authority to be discarded , and the articles of religion to be drawn up , which ought not to be looked on as particular fancies , but the sense of our church . all this he calls a pleasing dream ; i am sure the pretence of infallibility is so ; but i related matter of fact , which he hath no mind to meddle with , but he runs again to his , who shall be judg ? and concludes , that i think between churches there 's none at all . i do think the church of england in this divided state of the catholick church , is under no superior judicature , but that it hath sufficient power and authority to reform abuses , and to declare articles of religion so as to oblige its members to conformity ; especially since it proceeds by such excellent rules , as the holy scriptures , the ancient councils and universal tradition . and i hope this may pass for a direct answer . the replier takes another course besides this , for he makes use of these two topicks against the church of england : . that the church of rome was in poss●ssion of all those truths we rejected . that we ought to bring positive texts for our negative articles . . as to the plea of possession of all those truths now question'd by us . this were a pleasant thing for us to question them , if we owned they were truths ; but he means only that he thinks them so . well then , how is it their church was in possession of those truths ? do they become truths by their possession , or only that they were truths they were then possessed of ? if so , he must first prove them to be truths , or the possession signifies nothing and that is the point i went upon , that no possession gives a right to truth ; but the church of england had just reason to examine whether these were truths or not ; and upon examination finding them to be otherwise , it had reason to reject them . but to inforce this , he saith afterwards , that their church had a thousand years prescription here , and that their religion came into this nation with christianity . although according to st. cyprian's rule , all this pr●ves no more than the antiquity of error , unless the proof be made from scripture , yet because this goes a great way with some people , i do not only deny the truth of it , but shall give evident proof to the contrary . for i suppose it will not be questioned , that the religion brought in here by augustin and his companions , was the religion of gregory the great ; i shall therefore compare the doctrine of the council of trent with that of gregory , in some remarkable paticulars , and shew the great difference between them as to these things . . scripture and tradition . council of trent , gregory the great , declares , that it receives traditions with an equal veneration with holy scriptures , sess. . affirms , that all things which edifie and instruct , are contained in the volume of scriptures , in ezek. hom. l. . cap. .   that gods mind is to be found in his words , regist. epist. l. . ep. .   that the scripture is the glass of the elect , in reg. l. . c. . in job l. . c. .   that to be born of god , is to love his will revealed in scripture , in reg. c.   that preachers are to instruct their people in what they learn , out of the holy scriptures , greg sacram . in consecr . episcopi .   that the staves being in the rings on the sides of the ark , do shew that teachers should have the holy scriptures in their hearts , that from thence they may presently teach whatever is needful , de cura pastor , l. . c. . . apochryphal books . the council of trent , gregory the great , reckons the maccabees among the canonical books , sess. . plainly rejects them from being canonical ; for he excuses taking an example out of them , not being canonical , moral . in job , l. . c. . . merit of good works . the council of trent , gregory the great , anathematizes those who deny good works to be truly meritorious of grace and eternal life , sess. . can. . denies the most sanctified persons to procure divine wisdom by their graces , in job l. . c. .   affirms , that the best men will find no merit in their best actions , moral . l. . c. .   that all human righteousness will be found unrighteousness , if strictly judged , ib. l. . c. .   that if he should attain to the highest virture , he should obtain eternal life , not by merits , but by pardon , ib. . auricular confession . the council of trent , gregory the great , declares secret conf●ssion of all sins to be necessary in order to remission and absolution by the priest , sess. . c. , , . speaks of no other confession than what was required in order to the reconciliation of those who had undergone publick penance , the custom whereof at rome , is set down in golasius his sacramentary , p. . and gregory refers to the custom then used , in his sacramentary , p. . and there is no form of absolution in either of them , but by way of prayer to god , which is different from a sacramental , judicial absolution , required by the council of trent .   he makes no absolution true , but that which follows the judgment of god , which he parallels with the loosing of lazarus after christ had raised him from the grave , hom. . in evangel . . solitary masses . the council of trent , gregory the great , anathematizes those who say such masses wherein the priest only communicates , are unlawful , and to be abrogated , sess. . can. . forbids the priest to ce ebrate alone , and saith expresly it ought not to he celebrated by one , because the people are to bear their share , greg lib. capital . c. . apud cassandr . liturg. c. . transubstantiation . the council of trent , gregory the great , declares the body of christ to be in the eucharist under the species of bread , sess. . cap . asserts the body of christ after ●is resurrection to be palpable , i. e. that it may be seen and felt where it is , and that he proved this against eutychius of constantinople , moral . l. . c. . that asserts only the species to remain after consecration , ib. c. . he frequently declares , that our bodies as well as our souls , are nourished by the eucharist , which cannot be done by more species ; for no accidents can produce a substance , greg. sacram. . kal. mart. in sexages . hebd . . in quadrag . fr. . . communion in one kind . council of trent , gregory the great , declares against the necessity of communion in both kinds , sess. . cap . affirms it to be the constant practise for the people to receive in both .   sacram. in quadrag . fr. . kal. julii ad comple●d . hebd . . in quadr. sabbato . miss temp. belli . sexages . ad complend . domin . in ramis palm . vi. non. julii ad complend . viii . kal. aug. ad compl. kalend. aug. ad compl.   the like may be observed in gelasius his sacramentary , who declared it sacriledg to do otherwise ; as appears by the known canon , comperimus . de consecr . dist. . who was one of gregory's predecessors , and not long before him . . purgatory . council of trent , gregory the great , declares that there is a purgatory after this life , out of which souls may be helped by the prayers of the faithful , sess. . affirms , that at the time of death , either the good or evil spirit seizeth upon the soul , and keeps it with it for ever without any change . moral in job , l. . c. . ed. basil. c. . ed novae . that , in the day of death , the just goes to joy , and the wicked with the apostate angel is reprobated . moral . in job , l. . c. .   the passages in his dialogues , which seem to contradict these , do not come up to the council of trents purgatory ; for they only speak of a purgation for light and venial sins , and not for the temporal pain of mortal sins , * whose guilt is remitted : but in the former places he plainly denies any change of state after this life ; so that the purgation he speaks of , must be consistent with a state of joy ; and in that very place , he saith , persons shall be at the day of judgment , as they were when they went out of the world. . masses for the dead . the council of trent , gregory the great , declares , that they are intended for those who are dead in christ , not yet fully purged from their sins . sess. . c. . supposes those to be in a state of bliss , for whom the oblation was made at the altar , as appears by the sacramentary iv. kalend. julii , where the oblation is first mention'd ; and after follows , deus qui animoe famuli tui leonis eternae beatitudinis praemià contulisti . . worship of images . the council of trent , gregory the great , declares , not only that images are to be placed in temples , but to be worshipped there . sess. . allows their being in temples , but denies any worship to be given to them . for he not only often denies any adoration to be given them ; but he saith , they are only for instruction ; which excludes relative worship . registr . epist. l. . ep. . l. . ep. .   the epistle to secundinus gussanvillaeus in his late edition of s. gregory , saith , was not to be found in the most ancient m s s. . extreme unction . the council of trent , gregory the great , anathematizes those who do affirm it not to be a true and proper sacrament , appointed by christ for remission of sins , and conferring grace . sess. . can. , . mentions the unction then used in order to the recovery of sick persons ; and in the prayer applies s. james his words that way ; and then adds , sana quoque quaesumus , omnium medicator ejus febrium , & cunctorum languorum cruciatus aegritudinemque , &c. sacram. p. . and immediately before , in the unction , these words are said , per hanc sacrati olei unctionemprisinam & emmelioratem recipice mersaris sanitatem . ibid.   and that it was not looked on as the last sacrament , appears by things in that sacramentary :   . the eucharist was to be given after it :   . it was to be continued for seven days if there were occasion ; & suscitabit eum deus ; which shews that it was designed for bodily health . . pope's supremacy . council of trent , gregory the great , owned it from beginning to end ; and refer'd the confirmation of its decrees to the pope , as supreme head of the church . declares the headship of the church to be peculiar to christ. registr . ep. l. . ep. , . where he speaks not of an essential head , but of the fountain of jurisdiction .   he urges it as an inconvenience , if there were a head of the church , the church must err with him . epist. . .   which bellarmin owns to be a true consequence . de r. po●t . l. . c. .   he makes it the pride of lucifer , and the forerunning of antichrist , for one bishop to set himself above the rest . ep. .   not to be the sole bishop ; but to have all the rest in subjection to him . these things may be sufficient at present , to shew how little ground there is to say , that the religion now owned in the church of rome , was brought in hither with christianity in the time of gregory the great . ( . ) the replier saith , we ought to bring positive texts for our negative articles ; as no praying to saints , no purgatory , no worship of images , no transubstantiation , and the like ; with which , he saith , the articles are stuft . but why must we be obliged to bring texts for the negative ? because he saith , we make these articles of faith. to answer this , let us suppose the common council of the city should agree to make men swear that the monument near london bridge , is a living creature , and should exclude all those from the city priviledges who do not ; and that others having examin'd the monument , and found nothing but stones and iron , were resolved to follow their senses , and declare their minds , that upon due consideration , they did judg the monument to be no living creature ; would any say , these men ma●e it an article of their faith , when they only rejected a false proposition imposed upon the faith of others ? why may not a church declare what it doth not believe , as well as what it doth ? and when it declares what it doth not believe , doth it make such declarations articles of faith ? the plain case is , those of the church of rome impose things we think as hard and unreasonable as the former example : our church not only denies its belief of them ; but signifies it to its members by a body of articles which they are to sign , to testifie their consent : how doth this come to make every one of these declarations an article of faith ? they are only articles of agreement , and not of faith. and the difference between these may be easily understood . an article of faith supposes a divine revelation , as the replier yields ; but if men offer that for a divine revelation , which is not , the rejecting of that cannot be called an article of faith ; because there is no need of revelation to declare the other to be none , supposing there be a rule to judg what is of divine revelation , and what not . that rule we say is the holy scripture , not interpreted by fancy , but by the primitive church ; by this rule so interpreted , we reject invocation of saints , purgatory , worship of images , transubstantiation , &c. and why then should our rejecting them , be called so many articles of faith ? we own the scripture for our rule , and for our compleat and adequate rule of faith ; and therefore it serves us both for what we are to believe , and what we are not to believe . in positive articles , we resolve our faith into divine revelation contained in scripture ; in negative , the article of faith is , that scripture is our rule ; but from thence it is a necessary consequence of reason . that we are not to believe any thing but what is contained in scripture , or may be deduced from thence . which deductions being within the force of the rule , are not to be looked on as different from it ; and what can neither be proved by scripture , nor by deductions from it , if our principle be allowed , we can never be blamed if we reject it . for otherwise we should not act reasonably , nor agreeable to our own principles . but as to the particulars mentioned , we do not meerly reject them as not contained in scripture , but as repugnant to such principles concerning divine worship . remission of sins , the nature of christs body , &c. which are evidently contained therein : but i go no further t●an the replier leads me . at the conclusion of the first paper , there was a suggestion , as tho the schism were raised by particular men , for their own advantage . it was answered , that the advantage of the clergy lay plainly on the other side ; which is yielded by the replier ; and yet he would have the clergy byast : what , byast against their interest ? for that is the point , whether they got ot lost by the reformation ? and besides other considerations , if there were so much sacriledg committed by it , as is said in one of the papers , it is hard to suppose that they should raise the schism for their own advantage . i am of the defenders mind . that matter of interest ought not to be regarded in these things ; but when that was said to lie at the bottom of the reformation , we had reason to consider on which side lay the greater advantage . the d charge is , that the reformation hath been ●he occasion of a world of heresies creeping into this nation . with this the d paper begins . in answer it was said , that either this respects the several sects of dissenters from the religion established by law , and then it seems hard , considering a● circumstances , to charge the church of england with them ; or it takes in all that dissent from the church of rome , and so it is a charge on the whole church since the reformation , as guilty of heresie ; which was a charge i said could never be made good . the defender avoids the charge as to the church of england ; but the replier in plain terms owns it ; saying , that establishment of a religion by law , cannot protect it from being a heresie ; which i readily grant . and then he adds . let him defend his own , and his work is done . the best way to do that , is to consider first what heresie is , and that i said was an obstinate opposing some necessary article of faith ; and then , how it comes to be in the power of the church of rome to define heretical doctrines , so as that any doctrine comes to be heresie , by being contrary to its definitions ? he answers , by the same way the church had power in her general councils , to make creeds , and to anathematize hereti●ks . so that whatever power the catholick church exercised in declaring matters of faith , he challenges as of right belonging to the church of rome , which wholly depends on the first point already discussed ; viz. that the roman and catholick church are the same but i shall now wave that , and consider , whether if that were allow'd , the church could now have the same reason to declare the points in difference to be heresies , as the primitive church had the doctrines of the trinity , and incarnation of christ. i am of opinion it cannot ; and yet if it could , that alone is not sufficient to charge heresie upon us . and in making out of both these , i shall argue from the nature of heresie , as it is stated among their best writers , who agree that there are three things necessary to make up the charge of heresie . . the nature of the proposition . . the authority of the proponent . . the obstinacy of the party . . the nature of the proposition ; for it is allowed among them , that there is a difference between a proposition erroneous in faith , and heretical . but for our better understanding this matter , i shall set down something very pertinently observed by aquinas and others . . aquinas saith , that faith in us depends upon divine revelation , not such as is made to any person , but that which was made to the prophets and apostles , which is preserved in the canonical books ; and therefore he saith , the proofs from scripture are necessary and convincing ; those from other authorities are but probable : which is a testimony of great consequence in this matter ; for from hence it appears , that whatsover article of faith is made necessary to be believed , must be proved from scripture ; and heresie being an obstinate opposing a necessary article of faith , there can be no heresie , where the doctrine is not founded on scripture : and elsewhere he makes the principles of faith to be the authorities of the scripture . . that all matters of faith are not equally revealed in scripture ; for some , he saith , are principally designed , as the trinity and incarnation ; and these are directly against faith ; and to hold the contrary to them , especially with obstinacy , is heresie ; but there are others which are indirectly against faith ; from whence something follows which overthrows faith ; as , for any one to deny that samuel was the son of helcanah , the consequence would be , that the scripture was false . . he makes a distinction between those who discern the repugnancy , and continue obstinate , and those who do not ; not intending to maintain any thing contrary to faith ; and in this case there may be an erroneous opinion in faith , without heresie . so that an erroneous opinion lies in not attending to the consequence of that opinion , as against faith , and not maintaining it obstinately . but he asserts it to be in the churches power to declare such an opinion to be against faith , and then he makes it heretical to deny it : his instance is about the five notions of the trinity ; and his conclusion is , that it cannot be heretical in it self to have different opinions about them , but it is very hard to understand how the church by its declaration can make the holding one or the other opinion to be more or less repugnant to faith. but then the reason of heresie must be resolved into the authority of the church ; of which afterwards ; yet still scripture is the rule by which the church is to judg . ( ) that there are some things revealed in scripture which immediately tend to make mankind happy ; and those are the articles of faith which all men are bound to believe explicitely ; other things are revealed by accident , or secondarily , as that abraham had two sons , that david was the son of jesse . now as to these latter points he saith , that it is enough to have an inward preparation of mind to believe all that is contained in scripture ; and those things in particular as soon as they are known to be there . but we believe all persons bound to search the scriptures , that they may know what is contained therein . however we gain this point hereby , that by their own doctrine , besides the articles of faith receiv'd on both sides , no other points can become necessary , till they be made appear to us to be contained in scripture , otherwise it is sufficient for us to be ready to believe whatever is contained therein . and consequently , we cannot be charged with heresie for rejecting them . alphonsus a castro makes this distinction between heresie and a proposition erroneous in faith ; that the former is against such a point of faith , as all men are bound to believe ; but there are some propositions , he saith , relating to faith , wherein a man is under no obligation to believe either part of the contradiction . but if he asserts either of them to be an article of faith , and pronounces the other heretical , he then errs in faith , and is become a heretick . from whence i observe , that supposing any points in controversie , not to be so determined as to bring on men an obligation to believe them , those who make them to be articles of faith , and condemn the others for hereticks , are in so doing hereticks themselves . melchior canus saith , that although a proposition be thought by wise men to be a matter of faith , yet if it be not plainly defined by the church , nor demonstrated by reason , then the opposing of it is no heresie , but erroneous doctrine . nay he saith further , that if an opinion do contradict a point of catholick faith in the most probable and almost necessary opinion of all wise men , yet if it do not manifestly contradict , it is barely erroneous , and not heretical . suarez saith , that melchior canus his doctrine in this matter is generally receiv'd . but he adds one thing more , viz. that in heresie there must be the highest opposition to immediate revelation ; but if it implies only a repugnancy to a bare catholick truth , or theological conclusion , it is erroneous in faith , but no heresie . the highest opposition lies in three things : . the revelation must be immediate , and not deduced by consequence . . that it must be most certainly and undoubtedly of faith. . that the erroneous proposition do most certainly and undoubtedly contradict it . for , saith he , if there be a defect in any one of these , it is not an heretical proposition . these are the principles laid down by their own writers of greatest esteem . and therefore if the replier think fit to make good his charge of heresie against the church of england , he may from hence see what he hath to do . ( ) he must prove the points in controversie to be of immediate divine revelation ; and not drawn from thence by consequences and suppositions . . that the doctrine of our church doth in the highest , plainest , and most certain manner contradict such propositions of faith. and supposing it were possible for him to do the former ; yet if their own expositor of the articles of our church may be believed , he can never do the latter . for he endeavours to prove them capable of a catholick sense . the five first he allows for catholick as they stand . the sixth about canonical scripture , with st : jerome's explication , is catholick enough . the th , th , first part of the th , and the whole th , are very catholick . the four next he examines . the th needs only a gloss of st. augustins . the th very good . the th catholick , and so the th . the th only wants a gloss , and so the th and . the th he examines . d is allow'd . the th being only against a custom of the church , he proves from canus , can imply no heresie ; and yet he thinks it capable of a good gloss. the th he allows in the genuine sense of it . the th and th are confessed to be the doctrines of the church , and all the fathers . even the th against transubstantiation he thinks may be glossed into a good sense . the th is explained from s. augustin . the th from canus , not to contain any heresie . the th he saith only opposes the common opinion . the th capable of a 〈◊〉 sense . , th agreeable to scripture and antiquity . th 〈◊〉 h●milies , passable . th about ordination valid . th agreeable to the french opinion and practise . the popes jurisdiction may be understood of temporal . the two last he allows to be catholick . so that of articles , but five are reserved for examination , and of these , the th he saith , is about words ; the and capable of a good sense ; the th goes upon a mistake of their sense ; the th determines nothing against the true faith. i do not go about to justifie his exposition ; but i say , that upon your own grounds , it sheweth that our church cannot be justly charged with heresie . for if it be required that such propositions as are heretical must in the highest and clearest manner contradict the doctrines of faith ; and your own expositor grants they do not ; then however you may think them erroneous , yet you cannot condemn them for heretical . ( ) as to heresie , a sufficient proposition of the matters of faith is required . for they grant that the matters of faith must be proposed in such a manner as to induce an obligation to believe them , before any can be guilty of heresie in rejecting them . therefore it is necessary for us to know what they mean by a sufficient proposal . s●arez yields this to be a necessary condition ; and elsewhere discourses about the nature of it . and there he shews , . that a sufficient proposition of a matter of faith is not barely to deliver it as a divine trath , but it must be done with such circumstances , that it may appear to be prudently credible , i. e. so as to see such reason for it , as to put him beyond doubt or fear of the contrary . . that it must appear evidently credible to be revealed by god , and therefore certain and infallible . . that it must appear not only so , but evidently more credible , than the doctrine repugnant to it . . that according to natural reason , the assent to it is to be prefer'd before the contrary opinion . now to make good the charge of heresie against our church , he must not bring the motives of credibility for the christian faith in general , which are owned on both sides ; but as to those points which are asserted by them as matters of faith , and rejected by us . as for instance , transubstantiation is declared by them to be a matter of faith ; and it is denied by us ; and they charge us with heresie for it . we say , it hath never been proposed to us in such a manner , as to make it appear to be a prudent judgment in us to believe it , or that it was ever revealed by god or more credible than the contrary opinion , in the judgment of reason . not any one of these things doth appear to us , but the contrary ; for we can see nothing of the credibility , but a great deal for the evident incredibility of it . how then can this matter of faith be said to be sufficiently proposed to us ? it may be said , all this is done by the authority of the church proposing it ; and if it be made evidently credible that you ought to believe the church , then we are hereticks for rejecting her authority . i answer , that if by the churches authority , be meant that of the roman catholick churches infallible proposing matters of faith to us , we are as far to seek as ever and for our hearts we cannot find this made out with any degree of credibility . we have searched all your grounds , examined your motives , weighed your reasons , your miracles we have not seen ) but we can meet with nothing that should make it a prudent judgment for us to take all matters of faith upon trust from her . and if there be no evidence of credibility , there is no sufficient proposal ; and if there be not , there can be no obligation to believe ; and where that is not , there can be no heresie in not believing , according to the judgment of your greatest divines . ( ) as to the charge of heresie , there must be obstinacy in the party ; which they all make necessary to formal heresie . aquinas quotes the noted passage of st. aug●stin to this purpose , that although men hold a false opinion , without pertinacious animosity , especially if they derive it from their parents ; and do with diligence and caution seek after the truth ; and are ready to lay it down when they have found it , they are not to be recko●'d for hereticks . and we do not think a better plea can be made for us as to this charge , than what is contained in these words of st. august●n . but here we must observe the artifice of aquinas . he saw this would never do their business against the enemies of the church of rome , and therefore he pretends to give the reason for this , because they do not contradict the judgment of the church ; and so draws the power of declaring heresie to the pope , as having the chief authority in the church . of whom st. augustin saith not a word . but however aquinas himself requires obstinacy even in this case to make a heretick . and the obstinacy is not placed by him in the meer resisting the authority of the church , but in the manner of doing it . cajetan there affirms , that if there be no pertinacy in the will , there is no heresie . so that if a man holds an opinion contrary to faith in it self , and he thinks he holds right , and doth not intend to dissent from the church , he is not guilty of heresie . and so cajetan defines pertinacy to be a consent to an error in faith , knowing it so to be . melchior canus saith , it is the general opinion of divines and canonists , that there can be no heresie without obstinacy . and no man is a heretick , he saith , who doth not , seeing and knowing , chuse a doctrine contrary to fa●●h . suarez saith , that all the doctors are agreed , that obstinacy is required to heresie ; and that it is expressed in the canon law. so that i need to produce no more to that purpose . but the difficulty is , to know what they mean by obstinacy . it is not hard to understand what is meant by the word ; for pertinax is one that is over-tenacious , i. e. that holds an opinion , when he sees no ground for it , or will yield to no reasonable conviction ; or that hath not a desire to find out truth , and submit to it . and so it is plain st. augustin understood it , in the place before mention'd . and in another place , he makes it to lye in a mans resisting the catholick doctrine made known to him , without which he did not judg him a heretick , though he held heretical doctrine . and again he declares those to be hereticks that contumaciously resist those that correct and instruct them , and will not amend their wicked doctrines , but go on to defend them these passages of st. augustin are enter'd in the body of the canon law ; and the gloss there saith , if one bolds doctrines against faith , and be ready to be better instructed , he is no heretick . the same authorities ockam insists upon , and from them he declares obstinacy to be so necessary , that without it no man can be a heretick . and he concludes from st. augustin , that if a man be ready to yield to truth when he finds it , he is not guil●y of obstinacy and he proves that such are no hereticks from these reasons : ( ) because hereticks are to be excommunicated ; but such by the canon law are not to be ●xcommunicated . ( ) because they are ready to be better instructed ( ) because many have erred and were not accounted hereticks on this account . o●kam distinguishes a twofold obstinacy : . internal . . external . internal may be known , he saith , by the●e rules : . if a man be not convinced by miracles . . if he will rather question the truth of the christian faith , than be convinced . . when he doth not use means for his own conviction , but resolves to persist in his errors , such a neglect argues an obstinate mind . external , of which he gives many instances , of which i shall mention some , as ( . ) if a man willingly saith , or doth something whereby he discovers his disbelief of the whole christian faith ( ) if he demes any part of the old or new testament ( . ) if he holds the whole christian church to have erred ; which he by no means understands of any part of it assuming the titles of catholick and infallible to it self ; for he saith , some say , that whatsoever christ hath promised to his church , may be made good , if but one person in it holds the true faith ; but he declares that the 〈◊〉 faith may be preserved in a very few . ( . ) if the contrary doctr●● known to be universally received among christians , as if one sh●uld deny that christ was crucified ; and on this account , he charges 〈◊〉 . with heresy , for denying that the souls of the wicked are in hell , and of the saints in heaven before the day of judgment ( . ) if he refuses to be informed , being reproved by the learned . ( . ) if he protests he will never alter his opinion . ( . ) if he forbids reading the scriptures , or preaching catholick doctrine ( . ) if a pope commands an erroneous opinion to be believed as matter of faith. ( . ) if a man consents to such a definition of the pope , and imposes it on others . joh. gerson treats at large about the obstinacy which makes one a heretick , in several discourses before the council of constance ; and he follows st. augustins doctrine in saying , that it consists in not seeking after truth , and not obeying it when he hath found it . melchior canus , finds fault with the uncertain marks of obstinacy given by others , and he resolves it at last into this , that a man holds an opinion , which he knows to be contrary to the catholick faith ; but then he requires , ( . ) that he be certain that it belongs to it , and it is not enough that learned men say so . ( . ) that he must know it by an infallible authority . for otherwise a mans persisting in his opinion , may be great rashness and presumption , but it is not heresy . but in case a persons ignorance be such as makes his errors involuntary , it doth excuse him from heresy , because that is not a voluntary error . suarez , and others after him , in plain terms make the obstinacy to lie in not submiting to the judgment of the church ; because , while a man doth yield to the churches authority , they account him no heretick ●his is indeed an argument according to their way of declaring hereticks ; but we are now enquiring what that obstinacy is , which doth really make a man such . st. augustins opinion is reported by aquinus , as the reason of his judgment , that is adopted into the body of the canon-law : and therefore , that ought to be the standard , according to which they are to pronounce a person obstinate . if men do not wi●h diligence and caution seek after truth , and are not willing to embrace it , when they find it , then they are to be accounted hereticks for being obstinate . but st. augustin goes no further ; however suarez would seem to agree with him : but it is worth the while to consider his doctrine about it . ( . ) he affirms , that it is not enough for one to be ready to submit to gods word , either written or unwritten ; but the submission must be with respect to the church , as proposing both to us . ( . ) that those who believe any doctrine , because their judgment tells them , it is the sense of scripture ; if they therein follow their own judgment , and not the sense of the church , they are guilty of such an o●stinacy , as makes hereticks . ( ) that it doth not excuse , ●f he be willing to believe the church , if he ●●es reasons and arguments to move him ; for this , he saith , is not to believe the churches authority as divine , but after a human manner , which may consist with obstinacy against the church , as a rule of faith. ( ) that it is not yet necessary in order to this obstinacy , to believe the church to have infallible authority , for then those must be excused from heretical obstinacy who denied it : but it is sufficient that the church is proposed as a true church , whose authority he is bound to submit to . the short of all this matter is , if a man resolve to believe as the church believes , a very small thing will excuse him from heresy : but if not , nothing according to suarez will do it : unless it be ignorance as to the churches proposing . and this is the modern notion of heresy , which appears to me , to be very unreasonable on these accounts . ( . ) suppose a person have a general disposition of mind to believe whatever is sufficiently proposed to him , as revealed by god , and believes sincerely whatever he knows to be contained in scripture . i would sain know whether this disposition of mind do not really excuse him from heretical obstinacy ? and yet this is very consistent with doubting whether the church be accounted as the proponent of matters of faith. ( . ) is it necessary in order to heretical obstinacy , that the person believes the proponent to be infallible or not ? if it be , then none can be convinced of heretical obstinacy , but such as reject the churches authority , when they believe it infallible ; and then none of us can be charged with it ; for we do not believe the churches infallibility . if it be not necessary , then the churches infallibility is not necessary to faith ; for i● order to heretical obstinacy , he must be convinced of resisting that which was necessary in order to fa●●h ; from whence it will follow , that the churches infallibility is no● equired as the ground of faith. ( ) suppose a person thinks himself bound in conscience to believe those guides which god by his providence hath set over him ; and he believes to be sincere and honest : and these tell him , there is no ground to believe on the churches authority , as being sounded neither in scripture , nor antiquity , nor reason , is not he excused hereby from heretical obstinacy ? ( . ) suppose he declares himself ready to believe the churches authority , if it be sufficiently proposed to him ; i. e. with such reasons and arguments as are proper to convince him ; but after all , he declares , that he cannot see any such . and yet aquinas affirms , no man can believe , unless he sees reason why he should 〈◊〉 . how then can a man be liable to heretical obstinacy , because he only refuses to believe , when he sees no reason to believe ? ( . ) suppose he doth believe that which the church proposes , not meerly upon its authority , but upon the reasons which the church offers ; why must this man be liable to heretical obstinacy , for believing upon the churches reasons ? what a wonderful nice thing is heresie made ? it seems by this rare doctrine , it doth not excuse from heresie to believe even truth it self , if it be upon grounds of reason which the church it self gives . but it must be taken meerly from the churches authority ; and yet that very authority must be believed on the grounds of reason , or the motives of gredibility . ( . ) suppose a person hath used the best means he could to find out his obligation to believe on the churches authority , and after all , he cannot find any such thing , what obligation is he under to enquire farther ; and from whence doth it arise ? and if he be not under any , how can he be guilty of herecial obstinacy , who is under no obligation to search any farther ? for obstinacy must suppose resisting some obligation . ( . ) suppose he be willing to believe on the churches authority , if that church be made appear to him to be the one catholick church of christ , but when he comes to examine this , he finds that he must exclude very great and considerable parts of the catholick church , to reduce the authority of the catholick church to that of the roman communion ; how can it then be heretical obstinacy not to suppose a part to be the whole ? ( . ) suppose he hath overcome this , yet if he should mistake about the seat of infallibility , is he not still as liable to the charge of heretical obstinacy , because the true reason of it is , that such a person rejects that which god hath chosen as the proper means to propound matters of faith to us : but if he should be mistaken in the true proponent , he is in as much danger of heretical obstinacy still . as suppose a man takes a general council , as representing the catholick church , to be the only true proponent of faith ; and therefore rejects the authority of the pope in this matter , i desire to know , whether this be heretical obstinacy , or not ? if not , then rejecting the true proponent , doth not make any liable to it : if it doth , then there is heretical obstinacy in the church of rome , as well as out of it . and so much in answer to the repliers charge of heresie on the church of england . ( . ) the next charge relates to the insufficient authority of the church of england , and that on these accounts : ( . ) in that it leaves every man to judge for himself . ( . ) because she dares not use the true arguments against sects , for fear of their being turned upon her self . ( . ) because she denies an appeal to an higher judicature . ( . ) it is urged in the papers , that among us every man thinks himself as competent a judg of scripture , as the very apostles . it was answer'd , that every man among us doth not pretend to an infallible spirit , but all yield the apostles had it . and by being a judg of scripture , if no more be meant , than that every man must use his understanding about it , that was no more than was necessary in order to the believing the matters contained in it : but if by being a judg of scripture , was meant , giving such a judgment as obliges others to submit to it , then it was denied , that every man among us is allow'd to judg of it . but yet we own the authority of the guides of the church , and a due submission to them ; but we do not allow them to be as competent judges of scriptures as the very apostles . this seems to me to be a full and clear answer . but the replier offers some things against it . ( . ) that i suppose men cannot be deceived in understanding the scriptures ; and consequently their spirit is infallible . i never said , or thought , that they could not be deceived ; but i 〈◊〉 , they must use their understandings , to prevent being deceived , and must judg of the sense of what they are to believe in the scriptures , in order to their own salvation . but he saith , whosoever uses his understanding in opposition to the churches tradition , makes himself a judg indeed , but not to his own salvation . to make this matter clear , we must consider , that matters of faith necessary to salvation , are of another nature from matters of controversie concerning the sense of scripture in doubtful places . as to the matters necessary to salvation to particular persons , we assert the scriptures to be so plain , and the tradition of the church as to the creeds , so well known and attested , that no man without gross and culpable neglect , can mistake about them ; but in case of invincible or unaffected ignorance , their errors shall not be laid to their charge , and so their mistakes shall not hinder their salvation : and herein we assert no more than we can justifie , not only from scripture , reason , and antiquity , but from the best of their own writers , who assert , . that there are some points of faith necessary to be explicitely believed by all in order to salvation ; for altho they say there may be such invincible ignorance of them , as may excuse from sin in not believing them ; yet without believing them , they are not capable of salvation . as to the prima credibilia , as aquinas calls them , he determines , that every man is bound to believe them explicitely , as much as he is bound to have faith ; but as to other things , a preparation of mind is sufficient to believe all contained in scripture , and so much explicitely , as is made plain to him to he contained therein . from whence it follows , that by the doctrine of the schools , every man is to judg what he is to believe ; for his words are , quando hoc ei constiterit , when it is made clear to him ; and how can any thing be made clear to a man unless he be the judg of it ? . that particular persons may certainly know what is sufficient to their salvation by the inward assistance of divine grace , without depending on the churches infallibility . this follows from what is mention'd before concerning the divine gifts which accompany grace . and so much is owned by melchior canus , as to what is necessary for every man as to his own state and condition . so that the greatest divines of the roman church do yield all we contend for , as to the matters necessary to salvation . the only question is about matters of controversie raised in the church concerning the sense of scripture ; and as to these they yield these material points : ( ) that an implicit faith as to what is contained in scripture , is sufficient ; and that particular persons are bound to no more , till the doctrine be made clear to them , which appears from the words of aquinas lately mentioned . . that particular persons may disbelieve many things determined by the church , without sin . this sancta clara proves from vega and others : and he saith himself , their ignorance in such cases , is either invincible , or at least such as excuses from sin . and he farther saith , . that it is the common opinion of the schools , and of their divines , that laymen erring with their teachers , are excused from any fault , and as long as it is out of obedience to their teachers , it is rather a meritorious act. let us now lay these things to the present case , and all the difficulty will soon disappear . as to the matters of salvation , they grant that god will not suffer those to be deceived about them , who do sincerely seek after the knowledg of them . as to matters of controversie , they are in no danger , if they trust their spiritual guides . and i asserted that we owned the authority of guides in the church , and a due submission to them . but the replier is not satisfied with this , for he saith , . that no other submission is sufficient , but such as men lose i haven without it . this is somewhat hard to understand : doth he in earnest think men cannot go to heaven without a blind obedience to the church ? is there no allowance to be made for ignorance , education , reasonable doubts ? is all other submission to authority in the church merely ad pompam ? but this gentleman did not take time to consider the doctrine of their own schools about these matters , for i cannot imagine he could be ignorant of it . but the defender seems to be wholly unacquainted with it , otherwise he could not talk so crudely and unskilfully as he doth , about mens judgment in matters that concern their salvation . and he may now see how far their own divines allow particular persons to be competent judges about matters that relate to their own salvation : and therefore i need give him no other answer , till he hath better informed himself about these things : but we have been upon such a point as may in some measure excuse him , but not those who ought to understand their own doctrine better . ( . ) the next argument to prove the insufficient authority of the church of england , was , that she dares not bring the true arguments against the other sects , for fear they should be turned against themselves , and confuted by their own arguments . to this it was answered , that the church of england did wisely disown the pretence of infallibility , and made use of the best arguments against sectaries from a just authority , and the sinfulness and folly of the sectaries refusing to submit to it . to take off the force of this answer , two different ways are taken . ( . ) the replier saith , the argument is as forcible without infallibility as with it . ( . ) the defender saith , authority signifies nothing in this case without infallibility . i shall consider them both , tho both cannot stand together . ( . ) the replier goes upon this ground ; that the church of england can never justly charge sectaries with disobedience to her , because they may as well cast it in her teeth , that she disobeyed her mother church , whether she were infallible or not . but the force of this depends upon a double mistake . ( . ) that the church of rome hath as much authority over our church , as the rulers of it have over the members . which ought not to have been supposed , but substantially proved , since the weight of the cause depends upon it . but i see nothing like a proof produced . ( . ) that the sectaries have as much reason to reject the terms of communion required by our church , as our church had to reject those of the church of rome . but this is as far from being proved as the other . ( . ) the defender desires to be instructed , how such an authority can be in a church without infallibility ? i hope he believes there may be authority without infallibility ; or else how shall fathers govern their children ? but not in the church . why so ? have not bishops , out of councils , authority to rule their diocesses ? have they not a provincial synods authority to make canons , tho they be not infallible ? what then is the meaning of this ? he tells us soon after ; to say a church is fallible , is to say she may be deceived . there is no doubt of that . and if she may be deceived her self , they may be deceived who follow her . and if a church pretends to be infallible , which is not , she certainly deceives those that follow her , and that without remedy . but all this sort of reasoning , proceeds upon a false suggestion , viz. that our faith must be grounded on the chuach's authority as the formal reason of it . which he knows , is utterly denied by us , and ought to have been proved . we declare , the ground of our faith is the word of god ; not interpreted by fancy , but by the consent of the whole christian church from the apostles times . this is our bottom , or if you will , the rock , on which our church is built . this is far more firm and durable , than a pretence to infallibility ; which is like a desperate remedy , which men never run to , but when they see nothing else will help them . had the church of rome been able to defend her innovations by reason or antiquity , she had never thought of infallibility . it is a much better expedient to keep men in error , than to keep them from it ; and tends more to save the authority of a sinking . church , than the souls of men. but he will not let the church's infallibility go thus ; for he pretends to prove , that if we take that away , we make christianity the most unreasonable thing in nature ; nay , absolutely impossible . what! whether god hath promised to make the church infallible or not ! we understand those who offer to prove the church infallible by scripture ; but these scientifical men despise such beaten roads , and when they offer to demonstrate , fall short of the others probabilities . as will appear by examining his argument : faith requires an assent to a thing as absolutely true ; but a fallible authority cannot oblige me to a thing as absolutely true ; and therefore this would be an effect without a cause ; a down-right impossibility ; a flat contradiction . i will match his argument with another ; faith is not an assent to a thing as absolutely true , upon less than a divine testimony ; but the church's testimony is not divine ; and therefore to believe upon the church's testimony , is an effect without a cause ; a down-right impossibility ; a flat contradiction . let him set one of these against the other , and see who makes faith unreasonable or impossible . but i will clear this matter in few words . i grant that faith is an assent to a thing as absolutely true ; and that what is absolutely true , is impossible to be false : i grant , that a meer fallible authority is not sufficient to produce an act of faith. but here i distinguish the infallible authority of god revealing ( into which my faith is resolved , as into the formal reason of it ) from the authority of the church conveying that revelation , which is only the means by which this revelation comes to be known to us : as when a man swears by the bible , there is a difference between the contents of that book by which he swears , and the officers putting the book into his hands . ( . ) the church of england is blamed , for allowing no liberty of appeals to a higher judicature . the question is , whether this makes her no true church ; or not to have any just authority over her own members ? the replier saith , she makes her self the last tribunal of spiritual doctrine . i know not where she hath done so , since we own the authority of free and truly general councils , as the supreme tribunal of the church upon earth . and accordingly receive the four first ; which even s. gregory the great distinguished from those that followed , as to their authority and veneration . the defender had a good mind to cut off the church of england from being a church , because she hath renounced communion with the church of rome ; but his heart failed him : and i hope he will think better of it , when he sees cause to prove a little more effectually , that the church of rome in its largest extent is the catholick church . he argues , that there must be such an authority in a church , which may give a final sentence conclusive to the parties , as the judges do temporal differences . but is it necessary for all churches to have such a power ? then there must be as many supreme courts as there are churches . if not , we desire to know where the supreme court is , and who appointed it ? and where christ hath ever promised to his church a power to end controversies when they arise , as effectually as judges do temporal differences ? for the freest and most general councils yet assembled , have not been so happy ; and those we look on as the most venerable authority to decide differences in the church . but still our church wants sufficient authority , in his opinion . doth it want authority to govern its own members ? to reform abuses in a divided state of the catholick church ? to cast off an usurped power , as it was judged by the clergy in convocation , who yet concurred in other things with the church of rome ? i pray what authority had the gallican church so lately to declare against the pope's infallibility , and to reduce him in that respect to the case of an ordinary bishop ? if absolute obedience be due to him as head of the church , what authority have the temporal princes in other countries , sometimes to forbid , sometimes to restrain and limit the pope's bulls . this at least shews , that there may be just authority to examine and restrain the pope's power . and i see no reason , why the several churches of christendom may not act as well against the pretence of the pope's authority , as the gallican church hath done against his infallibility ; especially , since this gentleman hath told us , that authority without infallibility , signifies nothing . and those who think they may examine and reject his dictates , may do the same by his authority , the one being as liable as the other . it was said in the papers , that no country can subsist in quiet , where there is not a supreme judg , from whom there can be no appeal . the answer was , that the natural consequence was then , that every national church ought to have the supreme power within it self . but how comes appeals to a foreign jurisdiction to tend to the peace and quiet of a church ? the defender saith ; that a national to the whole church , is but as a shire to a kingdom ; and a very natural and consistent consequence it is , that every shire should have a king. one would think by such an answer , this defender is a mighty stranger to the ancient polity of the church . did he never hear of the power of metropolitans being setled by the council of nice for governing the churches , and calling provincial synods ? did he never hear of many other canons relating to the power and frequency of provincial synods ? did he never hear of the decrees of the council of ephesus , forbidding all incroachments on the ancient rights of churches ? did he never hear that provincial councils have declared matters of faith , without so much as advising with the bishop of rome ? as the african councils did in the pelagian controversy ; and the councils of tolcdo , in the case of arianism ; which reformed the spanish churches , and made canons by their own authority ; which were confirmed by their kings , reccaredus and sisenandus ? did he never hear that it was good doctrine among cathol●ck divines , that particular churches might take upon them to declare the true catholick faith ? and if so , they must judg what is so . did he never hear , that in a divided state of the church , errors and abuses may be reformed by particular churches ? and that this was owned and defended by great men in the church of rome ? if he did not , he was very much unprovided for the handling such a controversy ; if he did know these things , he ought not to have spoken with so much contempt of the power of particular or national churches . and to assert their authority , is very far from being like setting up a king in every shire ; for this were the highest dilloyalty to the king , who hath a just and unquestionable authority over all the shires . let him prove that the pope hath such a monarchy over all particular churches , before he make such a parallel again . but the way he takes is rather like making the imperial crown of this realm to be in subjection to a foreign power , because the roman emperors once had dominion here , and therefore this kingdom could never recover its own rights . but he saith , a foreign jurisdiction is hardly sense with respect to the church , for ●oris is out , and unless the ultimate jurisdiction be out of the church , it cannot be said to be foreign . this is a shameful begging of the question , that what they call the roman catholick church , is the catholick church ; for if it be not ( which i hope i have sufficiently shewn ) then the pretended and usurped jurisdiction of the roman church over the church of england , is a foreign jurisdiction . he adds , that it is impossible to re-settle the church among us , without that which we call foreign jurisdiction ; because dissentions in matters of religion cannot otherwise be removed . but suppose this foreign jurisdiction be the occasion of these dissentions ? some maintaining 〈◊〉 others asserting the rights of our church against it ; is not 〈◊〉 ●oreign jurisdiction like to put an end to it ? yes certainly . for , if all parties submit , there will be no longer disputing . but our question , as yet , is , whether this be reasonable or not ? i complained of the inconvenience of appeals to a foreign jurisdiction . he gives us a smart answer , and saith , that holds no comparison with the inconvenience of heresy . as tho it were so plain a thing that we are guilty of heresy , that it needed no manner of proof . alas ! what need a man prove that it is day when the sun shines ? we are just as much guilty of heresy , as the good bishop was , who , for denying the antipodes , was condemned by pope zach●●y . but it is a comfortable thing in a charge of heresy , to find it no better proved . he saith , i mistook the matter of appeals , and that it was not understood with respect to causes , but to matters of doctrine and worship . an appeal must re●ate to a superiour authority ; and a constant appeal to a standing authority ; and whatever the pretence be , the court of rome will challenge supreme jurisdiction , where-ever the pope is owned as head of the church : and then all those consequences will follow i mentioned before . if other kind of appeals were meant in the papers , yet they must relate to an authority superiour to our church ; which we could wish had been more fully expressed , that we might have known to whom the appeal was to be made ; whether to a free general council , which we never disowned ; or to the popes authority , which we yet see no cause to make our appeals to , especially as to what concerns his own jurisdiction . he pleads , that supream power must be judg in its own cause ; for no authority ought to be set up against the king , supposing a question be started about his prerogative . i answer ; this is a case extreamly different : for in matters of prerogative , the king 's supream power is not the question ; for his right to the imperial crown is , and ought to be out of dispute ; but all the question that can be started , must relate only to the exercise of his power , in some particular cases , where former laws made by the king's consent , are supposed to limit it ; which the courts of judicature take cognizance of , and so are a kind of legal arbitrators between the king and his people . but in the case before us , the jurisdiction it self , and the right to exercise any such authority , is the very thing in question . and i desire this gentleman to resolve me , whether in the late times of usurpation this had 〈◊〉 been good doctrine , that those who enjoy , or pretend to supream power , are to be judges in their own case ? if so , then it had been impossible for men to have justified their loyalty to the royal family , then very unjustly put out of possession . if not , then there may be a pretence to supream authority , where it is by no means allowable for the pretender to judg in his own cause . as to his appeal to the catholick church ; we by no means reject it , provided he mean the church truly catholick , as it comprehends the apostolical church in the first place ; and then all other christian churches , which from the apostles times have delivered down the catholick doctrine and worship , which they received from them . but if he means that which is called a catholick church , but is neither catholick nor apostolical ; we beg his pardon , if we allow no appeal to it , since its errors and corruptions are the great and just cause of our complaints . he runs into a long discourse about church-security , and his design is to shew there can be none without infallibility . infallibility is no doubt a very good thing , but where is it to be had ? is it not possible for men both to be deceived and to deceive , with a pretence of infallibility ? all that we desire is to see some infallible prooss of it ; without which all the talk about it doth not end one controversy , but beget many . and this kind of talk is , as if a man were to advise with two lawyers about making a purchase , but would fain be secure of a good title ; the one desires to see all the evidences that belong to the estate , and after the perusal of all , he tells him , that as far as he can possibly discern , the title is very good , and he would venture all he had upon it . he goes to another , and tells him what the former had said to him . and was this all , saith he ? would he not say , it was impossible for you to be cheated ? no. and will you venture your money without such security ? why , saith the client , what would you have me to do ? i will tell you , saith he , there is but one way in the world for you to be safe . what is that , sir. i should be glad to know it with all my heart ? i will discover it to you , provided you follow my counsel ; and that is , to deal with a man who hath such a gift from heaven bestowed upon him , that he never did , nor ever can deceive you , and then it is impossible you should be cheated : for , all these deeds and writings , and lawyers , may deceive you ; but if you deal with such a man , you are safe enough . i thank you , sir , saith the client , for your good advice ; but i pray , where is there such a man to be found ? for , if i cannot find him out , i am just where i was before , and i must use the best means i can , and rather trust to good deeds and real honesty , than wait for a chimerical infallibliity . it is alledged still , that without infallibility , we have not judgment but fancy . and the replier saith , that in competition with the churches authority all is but fancy . the difference of these must depend upon the reason we produce ; and by that we are still content the world should judg , so we understand those , who are unprejudiced in it . it was said in the papers , that if the fancies of those who are now for the church of england vary , they are ready , or ( as the desender saith it ought to be read ) really to embrace or joyn with the next congregation of people , whose discipline or worship agrees with their opinion at that time . i will take his own reading , which in my opinion alters the matter very little ; for still it implies , that those of the church of england have nothing to hold them to it , but a present fancy , and when that varies , they may as well be of another perswasion ; for fancy , we all know , is a very mutable thing . but , to shew that those of the church of england are not so apt to vary their fancies or opinions in these matters , i alledged their adhering to the crown in the times of rebellion . he answers , that my zeal for the church of england is wonderous unlucky . i am sorry if it prove so , since i unfeignedly design to serve her , and therefore should be much more concerned , if i should do her injury under a pretence of service . but wherein is it ? he confesses , the doctrine of our church is in this point very orthodox , and her practice in the times of rebellion conformable to it . and what was the practice of the church then , but the firmness of the members of it ? but many , he saith , deserted her and her doctrine in this point at that time , so many that the rebellion was peradventure indebted for its success to those deserters . but they were deserters still ; and the practice of the church of england was agreeable to her doctrine , by his own confession . how then comes this to shew , that it is only a variable fancy which keeps men to it ? he saith , if those who deserted her , had ever adhered to her with a perswasion , that they were obliged to believe what sbe taught , they could not have deserted her in this point , who always taught loyalty ; and till they do so , there is no security of adhering to her . this seems to me to be a wonderous unlucky answer . for doth infallibility secure a church against deserters ? have no men , no provinces , no whole nations deserted a church which pretends to infallibility ? and since there may be such multitudes of deserters , where ●●fallibility is challenged , what greater security can that give a●●inst them , more than our church doth ? nay , i think so much the less , because the very pretence to infallibility is suspicious and hard to be made out , and every error overthrows it . and i do not think the church of rome did her self greater mi●●hief , or ●ade more total deserters by any one thing , than by pretending to be infallible . for , when such gross errors and corruption ; were complained of , that one of the popes at that time confessed them , and owned the necessity of a reformation , when the princes of the roman communion called for it , and pressed it very hard by their ambassadors in the council of trent ( as appears by the french collection of memoires relating to it ) when 〈◊〉 all , no one thing , as to doctrine or worship , could be redressed , it ●onvinced the world , that let things be as they would , they would reform nothing ; this made the breach irreconcileable . for , till the council of trent was ended and confirmed , there was still hopes of reconciliation , upon a due explication of some points , reforming abuses , and leaving school-doctrines at liberty ; but when they saw every thing defended , and the errors complained of , made articles of faith , and put into a new creed , there was no hopes of any accommodation left . and all this was the blessed effect of pretending to infallibility ; for if one error had been owned , there had been no farther pretending to that . it is some comfort however , that our church is confessed to teach the orthodox doctrine of loyalty , and her practice to be conformable in the worst of times ; and so i hope it will always be . but it hath been said by some body , that we had our government and ceremonies from his church , our doctrine from luther and calvin ; and that we had nothing peculiar to our church , but our doctrine of non-resistance ; and much good may it do us . and we hope we shall never fare the worse for it . this might give occasion to enquire , whether the church which pretends to be infallible , doth teach it so orthodoxly or not ? or whether those who do think themselves obliged to believe what she teaches , are thereby obliged to the strictest principles of loyalty ? but i forbear . it is sufficient to my purpose to shew , that our church doth not only teach them , as her own doctrine ; but which is far more effectual , as the doctrine of christ and his apostles , and of the primitive church ; which i think ought to have more force on the consciences of men , than the pretence to infallibility in any church in the world. but all this while it is said , there is no firm motive produced for adhering to the doctrine of our church . and this is repeated over and over : as though there could be any greater motive in the world , than that our doctrine is no other than that of christ and his apostles . and unless you prove this as to the doctrine of the church of rome , all your other motives signify nothing to the real satisfaction of any man's conscience . for it is agreed on all hands , that our religion is a revealed religion ; and that this revelation was made by christ and his apostles : and that this revelation , as to matters necessary to salvation , is contained in the books of the new testament . what satisfaction then can it be to any man's conscience , to be told , such a church tells me this and that , and the other point were the doctrine of christ and his apostles ? as will appear by this short representation . you pretend to no new revelations of matter of doctrine ? no. you have the books of this revelation ? yes . are they not legible ? yes . but you cannot understand them . let me try ; it is for god's sake i must believe , and therefore i cannot be satisfied till i see his word . what! will you not believe the church which delivers you the word ? i pray excuse me . a man brings me a letter from my father , about matter of great consequence to me ; he tells me , i need not look into the letter it self , for he was authorized by my father to tell me his meaning : altho i believe he dealt faithfully in bringing me the true letter ; do you think i will trust him for the meaning of it ? no ; i will open it , if it be only to see , whether he had such authority from him or not . and i know , if my father was pleased to write to me about matters of such importance , he would write in such a manner that i might understand him ; and if any difficulties arise in point of law , i will take the advice of th●se who are most fit and able to direct me . but after all , i must know what my father would have me to do from his own words , and not from the mouth of the messenger . or if he tells me he hath authority to deliver other things by word of mouth , not contained in the letter , which i am equally bound to believe with what i can find in i● ; can any one think i will believe him , unless it appears by the letter it self that my father gave him such authority ? let him tell me never so much , how long he hath been my father's servant , and how faithful he hath been to him , and how much he hath done and suffered for him , and what a number of certificates he can produce , from time to time , of his good behaviour ; yet all this can give me no satisfaction , as long as the letter he brings is confessed to be my father 's own hand-writing ; and that it was purposely sent to direct me what i was to do in a matter that he knew to be of the greatest concernment in the world to me . can i imagine one so wise and careful , should omit setting down in his own letter such important things , and leave them to the dis●retion of one that may either mistake his meaning , or have some interest to carry on different from mine ? and therefore all the fair pretences or motives in the world , shall never make me believe any thing to be his mind for me to do , in a matter which relates to my welfare , but what i find under his own hand . it is to very little purpose to quote s. augustin's motives about the church ▪ unless it be made appear that they belong only to the church of rome ; and that they prove the church infallible in all she teaches . our faith depends on the word of god , as it is contained in scripture : thi● scripture is conveyed down by the church ; but the church still is but the messenger which bring● the letter , by which we are directed what to believe and practise in order to salvation . we do by no means think the word of god is made by writing , as he suggests ; but we are sure it is the word of god which is written , which we can never be of any tradition . we do not look out for a fallible judg , to be sure to have an end of our differences : but we hate to be imposed on , by a pretence to an infallible judg , who instead of ending differences , makes more . we do not think it judgment to affirm , that giving honour to god , is not giving honour to god : but we have not such deep understandings to comprehend how god should be honoured by the breaking his commandments . it is not judgment in our opinion to think , that because only one could redeem us , no body besides can pray for us : but it is no great wisdom and judgment , if god hath appointed but one advocate in heaven , for us to appoint him more ; or to make our addresses to our fellow-creatures in heaven , when he hath commanded us to do it to his son. we do not believe that the body and blood of christ can now be separated , or he die again : but when christ instituted a sacrament to set forth the shedding of his blood , that it is meer fancy to think his blood being in his body , doth answer the ends of it . the apostles no doubt understood christ's meaning in what he said , and have so well instructed his church therein , that we have no reason to believe he meant the substantial change of his body , in the institution of a sacrament . now on which side judgment and reason lies , these very instances discover . and we desire no greater liberty in these matters , than to have our judgments sway'd by the strongest reason ; and that i hope is not building on sand. the replier saith ; the infallible church is as visible as the sun. we are then wondrous unlucky indeed that cannot see it : i have often rubbed my eyes , and looked over and over , where they tell me it is to be seen , and i can yet see nothing like it ; although i should be as glad to see it as another . i have heard of a blind man , who pretended to have such a sagacity with his fingers , that he could feel colours ; and he proceeded so far in it , that some vertuoso's believed him , and were ready to form a theory of colours from the subtilty of the blind man's fingers ; but before they had accomplished it , the trick was discovered . an infallible judg of all controversies looks to me just like it ; he is to determine controversies , not by seeing , but by a kind of feeling . if he produces reason , we may judg as well as he ; if he doth not , he must feel them out ; which is so different a way from the proceeding of the rest of mankind , that for my part , i must be content rather to grope in the darkness of common reason , than be directed by the light of this invisible sun-shine . the defender here comes in with his dish and his stand ; which are metaphors somewhat too mean for such a subject , and are apt to turn one's stomach more than repetition . the question is , whether those who allow the use of our judgments in the choice of a church , have reason to find fault with it in other thing● ; because the difficulties about an infallible church , are as great as about any other point in religion ? the replier again saith ; the church is a noon-day light. then , what cimmerians are we ? tully questioned . whether some god , or nature , or the situation of the place , hindred a whole nation that they could never see the sun ? but our modern geographers put an end to this dispute , telling us , there are no people in the world who cannot see the sun at some time or other . and we are apt to think , if there were such a sun-shine of the churches infallibility , we should be able to discern it , unless the light of it may be thought to dazle o●● eyes ; for , we are as willing to find it as they ; but the dis●● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it are such as we cannot conquer . and there need no telescopes to find out the sun. but the defender will not yield that there are any su●● difficulties about the church's infallibility ; for he hath but o●● thing to mind , and that no difficulty neither , where , or which the church is . i hope when he hath considered the former discourses , he will not think it so easy a matter to find out the church he talketh of , viz. one infallible catholick church . but the difficulties about scripture are greater ; as about the canon , translation , and sense of it . the question proceeds upon a person who in earnest desires to satisfy himself in this matter ; whether in order to his salvation , he must follow the directions of scripture , or the church ? and i doubt not to make it appear , that the difficulties are greater about the church than the scripture . that which deceives persons is , that they rather consider the difficulties after the choice , than before . it is very true , those who trust the church , have no more to do afterward , but to believe and do as she directs ; for they are to examine no farther , whether it be true or false , right or wrong , vertue or vice , which is commanded ; the church is to be obey'd . but those who follow the scripture , must not only read , and weigh , and consider it well ; but when doubts arise , must make fresh applications to their rule , and use the best means for understanding it , by prayer , meditation , and the assistance of spiritual guides . and this is far more agreeable to the design of the christian religion , as it was taught by christ and his apostles . but the difficulties of the choice are now to be consider'd ; and let us consider what those are about the church , and then compare them with those about the scripture . if i choose a church for my infallible guide in the way to heaven , to which the promises of christ do belong , then there are these difficulties , both which i think impossible for my mind to get over . ( . ) i must exclude all other churches in the christian world from any share in these promises . and either i must condemn them without hearing them , or examining the grounds of their exclusion , or i must be satisfied with the reason of it ; which i cannot be , till i am certain that church hath justly shut out all other churches , and challenged the promises to her self alone . ( . ) i must be satisfied that christ did intend one standing visible church to be my director in the way to heaven . and for this purpose , i must examine all the places of scripture produced to that end , and be judg of the clearness and evidence of them , i. e. i must conquer the difficulties about the scripture , as to canon , translation , and sense , before i can be satisfied that i am to make choice of a church . ( . ) there is yet a harder point to get over ; suppose a church must be chosen : why the church of rome rather than any other ? what is there in the promises of christ , which direct me to chuse that church and no other ? suppose i were born in greece , and there i was told , i must ●huse a church for my guide to heav●n . if it must be so , i will chuse our own greek church ; no , it must be the church of rome . what reason or colour is there for it ? is it said so in scripture ? no , not expresly . but what consequence from scripture will make me do it ? there are promises made to the church . what then ? were not our churches planted by the apostles ? have not we had a constant succession of bishop ; in them ? have we not four patriarchs in our communion , and you but one ? for what imaginable reason then should you exclude our chur●●es from any share in the promises of christ ? but now as to the scripture , we are to consider ; . that no more is necessary as to particular persons than knowing the things necessary to their salvation ; which are easy to be known , and are clearly revealed in scripture , if s. chrysostom and s. augustine may be b●lieved . . that what difficulties are objected about the scripture , must be all of them resolved by him that believes the church , ( as is already observed ) but the difficulties about the church's infallibility , do not concern him that relies on scripture . . that the general consent of the christian church , is of far greater advantage for the satisfaction of a man's mind , than the authority of any one church , as about the integrity of the copies , and the canon of scripture . . as to translations , the unlearned in all churches must trust to those that are learned for the particular examination of them ; but in general , a private person may be satisfied by these con●●derations . ( . ) that men will not go about to deceive others in a matter wherein so many are concerned ; and in which it is so easy to discover any wilful fraud . ( . ) that since the divisions of christendom , there are parties still at watch to discover the faults committed by each other in a work of so publick a nature . ( . ) that where a translation hath been review'd with great care , after several attempts , there is still greater security as to the goodness of it . and this is the case of the present translation of our church , which was with wonderful care review'd and compared with the original languages , by the particular direction of k. james i. and therefore deserves to be esteemed above such a translation , which was never made out of the original ( as to the old testament ) nor ever review'd and corrected by it . which is the case of the vulgar latin , and of such translations which are made from it . i had said , that the scrip●ure may be a rule without the church , but the church cannot without the scriptures . the replier , like a fair adversary , mentions that which looks like an objection , viz. that there was a church before the scriptures were written ; and some ages were passed before the canon of scripture was made and owned by the church . to which i answer ; that when i said the church cannot be a rule without the scripture , it was upon the supposition , that the canon of scripture had been long since owned by the church , and that the church derives its infallibility from the promises contai●ed in the scripture . but the defender goes another way to work ; for , saith he , the scriptures , i say , may be a rule without the church ; that is , without faithful ; for a congregation of them is a church . what! in the sense now before us , as it is taken for a guide ! is every congregation of the faithful a church in this sense ? then , well-fare the independents . and this , me-thinks , makes infallibility sink very low . i do not say , there could be no church before scripture ; nor that they had then no rule of faith ; nor that the church depends on writing ; these are but mean objections ; but i ●ill say , that where a church challenges her authority by the scripture , it can signify nothing without it . which is so plain , that i need not multiply words about it . as to his church-security , we have considered it enough already ; but it would make one mistrust a security which is so often offered . i said , that suppose infallibility be found in scripture , there is yet a harder point to get over , viz. how the promises relating to the church in general , came to be appropriated to the church of rome . from hence he insers , that i have at last found the promises of infallibility to the church there . is not this a rare consequence ? suppose i should say , i know a book of controversy in the world , that hath very little of true reasoning in it ; but if it were to be found there , it doth not reach to the point in hand . doth this imply that i affirmed in the latter part , what i denied before ? is this finding out true reasoning in the latter period , which was not to be found in the former ? there may be true reasoning , when it is not to the purpose . so there might be infallibility , and yet the church of rome not concerned in it . suppose the church of jerusalem , as the mother church , might be infallible by the promises of scripture ; what would this be to the church of rome ? but i never said , or thought , that there were any promises of infallibility made to any church in scripture : pro●ises of divine assistance and indefectibility , i grant , are made to the church in general : but these are quite of another nature from promises of infallibility , in delivering matters of faith in all ages . yet if this were granted , the church of rome , as it takes in all of her communion , hath no more reason to challenge it to her self , than europe hath to be called the face of the whole earth . as to his sandy foundation , i tell him in short , he that builds his faith on the word of god , builds on a rock ; and all other things will be found but sandy foundations . ( . ) the next thing laid to our charge is , that we draw our arguments from implications , and far-fetch'd interpretations , at the same time that we deny plain and positive words . in answer to this ; ( . ) it was shew'd , that in many of the points in difference , we have express words of scripture for us . as , against the worship of images , and giving divine worship to any but god : and for giving the eucharist in both kinds , and praying in a language we understand . the defender would have me produce the very words , to shew that the scripture saith no , to what their church saith i , or contrariwise . he talked much before , that we give the same answer the old hereticks did ; and now i think he hath matched them . shew us , say they , in terms , the direct contrary to our propositions ; where the son was said to be consubstantial to the father ; or the holy ghost was a divine person ; or the blessed virgin the mother of god ; or that there are two natures in christ after the union . will reason and consequences signify nothing , when founded on the word of god ? but i need not this answer , for i assirm that the words of the first and second commandment , of the institution of the sacrament , drink ye all of this ; of s. paul . of the first epistle to the corinthians , against publick service in an unknown tongue , are so plain and evident , that there is no command of scripture but may be avoided and turned another way as well as these . and herein we go not upon our own fancies , but we have the concurrent sense of the christian church in the best and most primitive ages , in every one of the points here mentioned . and whether we are right as to the sense of the second commandment ; and as to divine worship in general , as to christ's institution amounting to a command , as to st. paul 's discourse : which the replier insists upon , next to the scripture it self , and the force contained therein ; we appeal to the primitive church , as the most indifferent arbitrator between us . ( . ) i answered ; that where words seem plain and positive , they may have a metaphorical or figurative sense ; as when god hath eyes and ears , &c. given him ; and the rock was christ. and so in the words , this is my body ; it was a sacramental expression , as the other was ; and the other words are figurative , when the cup is said to be the new testament in his blood : and st. paul , notwithstanding those words , called it bread after consecration . here the defender will not bite , the light being too clear for him ; but descants upon denying plain words , and so runs clear off from the point , which seemed to be chiefly meant by the paper . but the replier is a generous adversary , and attacks what stands before him . he endeavours to shew a difference between god's having eyes and ea●s , &c. and those words , this is my body , as to the receding from the literal sense ; because , saith he , there is an implication of impossibility in the one , but not in the other . but withal he grants , that if by this be meant the bread , it would have implied an equal impossibility . i am very glad to see this point brought to so fair an issue : for , if i do not prove by the general consent of the fathers , both of the greek and latin churches , that by this the bread is meant , i dare promise to become hi● proscly●● . ( . ) the last thing objected is , that our church s●bsists only on the pleasure of the civil magistrate , who may turn the church which way he pleases . to this it was answered ; ( . ) that the rule of our religion is unalterable , being the word of god ; tho the exercise of it be under the regulation of the laws of the land. ( . ) that altho we attribute the supreme jurisdiction to the king , yet we do not question but there are inviolable rights of the church which ought to be preserved against the fancies of some , and the usurpations of others . the replier answers , that our religion is built on private interpretations of scripture established by law ; and therefore if the law be mutable , the religion is mutable . the defender desires i would make it appear , that the holy scripture is such a foundation , as makes the protestant church unalterable ; for the letter of scripture is common to all who bear the name of christians . and all alterations of religion are made upon pretence of scripture . to give a clear and distinct answer , i shall lay down these propositions . ( . ) that altho humane laws be alterable , yet the divine law is unchangeable , and continues its force on the consciences of men ; so that no humane law can make that lawful which god hath sorbidden , nor that unlawful which he hath commanded . whatever change therefore may happen as to the laws of men , the law of god is still the same , and its obli●ation cannot be taken off by any laws of men. as suppose god hath forbidden the worship of images , or of saints , or of any creature , upon supposition that it is not a creature ; no law in the world can make this lawful ; because god's authority is superior and antecedent to man's , and therefore cannot be superseded by an act of men. and this is one of the fund mentals of the christian religion , without which it could never have been practised , when the laws of the empire were again●● it . so , neither can humane laws make that true which is agains● the word of god , nor that false which is agreeable to it . they can never make transubstantiation a true doctrine ▪ if it were nor so before ; nor a purgatory necessary to be believed , unless it be proved from scripture to be so . so that the foundation of our religion , being the word of god , and the obligation of that on the consciences of men , it must remain the same , tho humane laws be mutable . howbeit , i do not deny the magistrates power in making laws for regulating the publick exercise of religion . but as we have cause to thank god for the establishment of the best church in the christian world by them among us ; so we are unwilling to put such cases as the defender doth , when we enjoy our religion as established by law : and it would be interpreted to be a mistrust of his majesty's gracious promise to protect it . ( . ) although the letter of scripture be liable to misinterpretations and abuses , yet the true and genuine sense of it may be understood ; and then there is a great disterence between false and mistaken notions , and the proper sense of scripture . this is very strange reasoning , if men will infer that there can be no certainty as to the sense of scripture , because so many have misinterpreted it . is it any argument that the constitution of our government is not sirm ; or that loyal subjects cannot be certain of their duty , because men of ill principles have run away with false notions of a fundamental contract , and coordinate power ? is there no certainty in law , because judges have been of different opinions , and determined the same cause several ways ? is there no principle of certainty in the world , because men have been imposed upon , both by their senses and reason ? if notwithstanding this , we must allow that we may judg truly of some things , ( or else we must all turn scepticks ) then we desire no more than to observe the same rules and caution in judging the sense of scripture , which we do as to our judgment of other matters . in them we take notice of the causes of errors , the circumstances of things , the difference of objects , the nature of the medium , and accordingly pass our judgment . and in things too small for our view , or too remote , we make use of glasses to help us ; but all this while men do not reason so weakly in these matters . do they say that some have been deceived by their glasses and telescopes ; therefore there is no certainty in any of them , and they must all be laid aside ; and whatever they talk of spots in the sun , and the unequal surface of the moon , they are all fancies and chimera's of giddy brains , and no men of sense can believe them ? if mankind do not argue at this rate in other things , how come they to be so fatally unreasonable about the scripture ? the letter of scripture , say they , is used for this fancy , and the other mistake , and a third pleads it for down-right heresy : i very one thinks he hath the letter of scripture for him ; and upon that he grounds his faith. and what then ? the natural consequence is , that every one would sain have scripture of his side . doth it really follow from hence that no body hath it ? or that there can be no certainty who hath it , and who hath it not ? but every one thinks he hath it . and what follows ? some or others must be deceived . i grant it ; but who shall tell who is deceived , and who not ? i pray let me ask one question ; are you willing to be deceived , or not ? who is willing to be deceived ? every one that will not take the pains to be undeceived , or to prevent being deceived . what pains do you mean ? such honest industry and diligence which every one ought to take , who pretends he searches for truth in order to his salvation . and i dare affirm , such shall never want means to attain certainty as to the sense of scripture in what concerns their salvation . but suppose the question be about churches , how can the church of england assure men that is the true sense of scripture which is delivered by it ? i answer ; ( . ) the church of england hath ofsered all reasonable satisfaction to mankind , that it doth follow the true sense of scripture . and that by these ways ; . by not locking up the scripture from the view of the people , but leaving it free and open for all persons to judg concerning the doctrines here taught . which argues a great assurance , that our church is not afraid of any opposition to be found to the word of god in the articles of our religion . and the contrary is vehemently to be suspected , where reading the scripture is forbidden the people , as it is in the church of rome , if the popes authority signify any thing ; for clement the th , did revoke the power of granting licenses , which was allowed by pius the th . and i do not see how any confessor can justify his acting against the pope's authority . . by not pretending to deliver the sense of scripture on her own authority . if she did require her members to depend wholly upon her sense , without examining themselves , that very thing would render her authority suspicious with all inquisitive men ; who always mistrust where there is too much caution . . by her constant appealing to the primitive church ever since the reformation , as the best voucher for her keeping to the true sense of scripture . and in truth , one of the greatest controversies between our church and the church of rome , is not about the bare letter of scripture , but the best interpreter of it . our church still contending , that the sirst and purest ages of the church , next to the apostles times , did certainly best understand the sense aad meaning of scripture ; and the church of rome pretending , that the giving the true sense of scripture , belongs to the present catholick church , which they would be thought to be , against the plainest evidence of scripture and reason . as appears by the foregoing discourses . the defender's cavil against the prayer at the end of the answer , would have held as well against amen , if it had been added to it . but he was to answer all , and therefore the very prayer could not escape his confutation , or at least his putting an ill construction upon it ; which was far from the intention of him that made it . who thinks it a part of a good christian , to be always a loyal subject . as to the summing up the evidence in his conclusion , i shall not follow him in it , since i think the cause so clear in the opening of it , that i shall leave it as it is , to the reader 's judgment . an answer to the defence of the third paper . i have now done as to matter of reason and argument ; the third paper chiefly relates to matter of fact : which , if i were mistaken in , even the brisk defender of it , doth me that right , to say , the bishop of winchester did mislead me . for the whole body of my answer , he saith , is in effect a transcript from the bishop's preface ; that i purloin his arguments , without altering sometime so much as the property of his words . that i have quoted him five times only in the margin , and ought to have quoted him in almost every leaf of my pamphet . in short , if the master had not eaten , the man ( saving reverence ) could not have vomited . this is a tast of the decency and cleanliness of his stile ; especially in writing for princes and great ladies , who are not accustomed to such a sort of courtship to others , in their presence . but as course as the complement is , it clears me from being the author of any mistakes , and lays the blame on the bishop , who is not able to answer for himself . yet , as if i had been the sole contriver and inventer of all , he bestows those civil and obliging epithets upon me , of disingenuous , foul-mouth'd , and shuffling ; one of a virulent genius , of spiteful diligence and irreverence to the royal family ; of subtil calumny , and sly aspersion ; and he adds to these ornaments of speech , that i have a cloven foot , and my name is legion ; and that my answer is an infamous libel , a scurrilous saucy pamphlet . is this indeed the spirit of a new convert ? is this the meekness and temper you intend to gain proselites by , and to convert the nation ? he tells us in the beginning , that truth has a language peculiar to it self ; i desire to be informed whether these be any of the characters of it ? and how the language of reproach and evil-speaking may be distinguished from it ? but zeal in a new convert is a terrible thing ; for it not only burns but rages , like the eruptions of mount aetna , it fills the air with noise and smoak ; and throws out such a torrent of liquid fire , that there is no standing before it . the answerer alone was too mean a sacrifice for such a hector in controversy . all that standeth in his way must fall at his feet . he calls me legion , that he may be sure to have number enough to overcome . but he is a great prosicient indeed , if he be such an exorcist , to cast out a whole legion already . but he hopes it may be done without fasting and prayer . if the people continue stedfast to their religion , they are the rabble ; and the only friends i can perceive he allows us . my good friends the rabble in one place , and in another , our author knows he has all the common people of his side ; what nothing of honour , or dignity , or wit , or sense , or learning left of our side ? not so much as a poet , unless it be robbin wisdom . i pray , sir , when was it that all our friends degenerated into the rabble ? do you think that heresy , as you call it , doth ipso facto degrade all mankind , and turns all orders of men , even the house of 〈◊〉 lordsit self , to a meer rabble ? if all the common people be of our side , we have no reason to be troubled at it ; but there is another thing of our side , which you like worse , and that is common sense ; which is more useful to the world than school-divinity . but methinks he should not be angry with the common people , when he takes such pains to prove , that the kingdom of heaven is not only for the wise and learned ; and that our saviour's disciples were but poor fishermen ; and we read but of one of his apostles who was bred up at the feet of gamaliel ; and that poor people have souls to save as precious in the sight of god as the grim logicians . would not any one take this for an apology for the common people , rather than for the dutchess of york ? whose wit and understanding put her far beyond the need of such a mean defence ? could she be vindicated in no other manner than by putting her into the rank of the persons of the meanest capacities ? but this is another part of the decency of this defence . he had several pretty sayings , as he thought , upon this subject , and therefore out they come , without regarding the reflection implied in them on a person of her capacity as well as dignity . and so h● goes on in his plea for the ignorant , i. e. for the common people , as i am resolved to understand it . must they be damned unless they can make a regular approach to heaven in mood and figure ? is there no entring there without a syllogisin ? or ergotcering it with a nego , concedo , & distinguo ? this may pass for wit and eloquence among those i think he pleads for . and so i am content to let it go for the sake of my friends , the common people . but this is somewhat an unusual way of defending , to plead for those he professes to despise , and in such a manner , as to reproach the person he undertakes to defend . from the common people , we come to church-m●n , to see how he uses them . and he hath soon found out a faction among them , whom he charges with juggling designs : but romantick ●eroes must be allowed to make armies of a field of thistles , and to encounter wind-mills for giants . he would fain be the instrume●t to divide our clergy , and to fill them with suspicions of one another . and to this end , he talks of men of a latitudinarian stamp : for it goes a great way towards the making divisions , to be able to fasten a name of distinction among brethren : this being to create jealousies of each other . but there is nothing should make them more careful to avoid such names of distinction , than to ob●●rve how ready their common enemies are to make use of them , to create animosities by them : which hath made this worthy gentleman to start this different character of church-men among us ; as tho there were any who were not true to the principles of the church of england as by law established : if he knows them , he is better acquainted with them than the answerer is ; for he professes to know none such . but who then are these men of the latitudinarian stamp ? to speak in his own language , they are a sort of ergoteerers , who are for a concedo rather than a nego . and now i hope they are well explained . or , in other words of his , they are , saith he , for drawing the non-conformists to their party : i. e. they are for having no non-conformists . and is this their crime ? but they would take the headship of the church out of the king's hands . how is that possible ? they would ( by his own description ) be glad to see differences lessened , and all that agree in the same doctrine , to be one entire body . but this is that which their enemies fear ; and this politician hath too much discovered : for then such a party would be wanting , which might be plaid upon the church of england , or be brought to joyn with others against it . but how this should touch the king's supremacy i cannot imagine . as for his desiring loyal subjects to consider this matter ; i hope they will , and the more sor his desiring it ; and assure themselves , that they have no cause to apprehend any juggling designs of their brethren ; who , i hope , will always shew themselves to be loyal subjects , and dutiful sons of the church of england . the next he falls upon , is , the worthy answerer of the bishop of condom 's exposition , and him he charges with picking up stories against him , and wraping them up with little circumstances . how many fields doth he range for game , to sind matter to sill up an answer , and make it look big enough to be considered ? but that author hath so well acquitted hims●lf in his defence , as to all the little objections made against him , that i can do the reader no greater kindness , than to refer him to it . i must not say , the poor bishop of winchester is used unmercifully by him ; for he calls him that prelate of rich memory . as though , like some popes , he had been considerable for nothing , but for leaving a rich nephew . but , as he was a person of known loyalty , piety , and learning ; so he was of great charity , and a publick spirit , which he shewed both in his life-time , and at his death . could nothing be said of him then but that pr●late of rich memory ? or , had he a mind to tell us he was no poet ? or , that he was out of the temptation of changing his religion for bread ? the bishop of worcester is charged with down-right prevarication , i. e. being in his heart for the church of rome , but for mean reasons continuing in the communion of the church of england . therefore , saith he , take him topham . and now what can i do more for the poor bishop ? the most he will allow him is , that he was a peaceable old gentleman , who only desired to possess his conscience and his bishoprick in peace without offence to any man , either of the catholick church , or that of england . yet he hath so much kindness left for the poor bishop , that for his sake he goes about to defend , that a man may be a true member of the church of england , who asserts both churches to be so far parts of the catholick church , that there is no necessity of going from one church to another to be saved . this is a very surprising argument from a new convert . why might he not then have continued still in the communion of this church , tho he might look on the church of rome as part of the catholick church ? the reason i gave against it was , that every true member of this church must own the doctrine of it contained in the articles and homilies ; which charge the church of rome with such errors and unlawful practices , as no man who believes them to be such , can continue in the communion of that church ; and therefore he must believe a necessity of the forsaking of one communion for the other ; and that no true member of this ch●rch can , with a good cons●ience , leave this church and embrace the other . let us now see what a talent he hath at ergoteering . if this be true , saith he , then to be a member of the church of england , one must assert that either both churches are not parts of the catholick , or that they are so parts , that there is a necessity of going from one to another . he would be a strange member of the church of england , who should hold that both churches are not parts of the catholick ; for then he must deny that parts are parts ; for ev●ry true church is so far a part of the catholick church . therefore , i say , he must hold , tho it be in some respects a part of the catholick church ; yet it may have so many errors and corruptions mixed with it , as may make it necessary for salvation to leave it . the second , he saith , is nonsense . how nonsense ? he doth well to hope that men may be saved that do not understand controversy ; nor approach heaven in mood and figure . a necessity of a change , saith he , consists not with their being parts ; for parts constitute one whole , and leave not one and another to go to or from . we are not speaking of the parts leaving one another ; but of a person leaving one part to go to another . suppose a pestilential disease rage in one part of the city , and not in another ; may it not be necessary to leave one part and go to the other , tho they are both parts of the same city , and do not remove from one to the other ? but he saith , with great assurance , that necessity of change makes it absolutely impossible for both churches to be parts of the catholick . which plainly shews , he never understood the terms of communion with both churches . for , no church in the world can lay on obligation upon a man to be dishonest , i. e. to profess one thing , and to do another ; which is dissimulation and hypocrisy . and no church can oblige a man to believe what is false , or to do what is unlawful ; and rather than do either , he must forsake the communion of that church . thus i have given a sufficient taste of the spirit and reasoning of this gentleman . as to the main design of the third paper , i declared that i considered it , as it was supposed to contain the reasons and motives of the conversion of so great a lady to the church of rome . but this gentleman hath now eased me of the necessity of further considering it on that account . for he declares , that none of those motives or reasons are to be found in the paper of her highness . which he repeats several times . she writ this paper , not as to the reasons she had her self for changing , &c. as for the reasons of it , they were only betwixt god and her own soul , and the priest with whom she spoke at la●t . and so my work is at an end as to her paper . for i never intended to ransack the private papers , or secret narratives of great persons . and i do not in the least question the relation now given , from so great authority as that he mentions of the passages concerning her ; and therefore i have nothing more to say as to what relates to the person of the dutchess . but i shall take notice of what this defender saith , which reflects on the honour of the church of england . ( . ) the pillars of the church established by law , saith he , are to be found but broken staffs by their own concessions . what! is the church of e●gland felo de se ? but how , i pray ? for after all their undertaking to heal a wounded conscience , they leave their proselytes finally to the scripture ; as our physicians , when they have emptied the pockets of their patients , without curing them , send them at last to tunbridg waters , or the air of montpellier . as tho the scripture were looked on by us as a meer help at a dead lift , when we have nothing to say . one would think he had never read the articles of the church of england ; for there he might have seen , that th● scripture is made the rule and ground of our faith. and , i pray , whither should any persons be directed under trouble of mind , but to the word of god ? can any thing else give real satisfaction ? must they go to an infallible church ? but whence should they know it to be infallible , but from the scriptures ? so that on all hands , persons must go to the scriptures if they will have satisfaction . but this gentleman talks like a meer novice as to matters of faith , as tho believing were a new thing to him ; and he did not yet know , that true faith must be grounded on divine revelation , which the pillars of our church have always asserted to be contained only in the scripture ; and therefore whither can they send persons but to the scripture ? but it seem● he is got no farther than the collier's faith ; he believes as the church believes , and the church believes as he believes ; and by this he hopes to be too hard for a legion of devils . ( . ) he saith , we are reformed from the vertues of good living , i. e. from the devotions , mortifications , austerities , humility and charity , which are practised in catholick countries , by the example and precept of that lean mortified apostle st. martin luther . he knows we pretend not to canonize saints ; and he may know , that a very great man in the church of rome , once said , that the new saints they canonized , would make one question the old ones . we neither make a saint nor an apostle of martin luther ; and we know of no authority he ever had in this church . our church was reformed by it self , and neither by luther nor calvin , whom he had mentioned as well as the other , but for his lean and mortified aspect . but after all , luther was as lean and mortified an apostle as bishop bonner ; but a man of far greater worth , and sit for the work he undertook , being of an undaunted spirit . what a strange sort of calumny is this , to upbraid our church , as if it followed the example and precept of martin luther ? he knows , how very easy it is for us to retort such things with mighty advantage ; when for more than an age together , that church was governed by such dissolute and profane heads of the church , that it is a shame to mention them ; and all this by the confession of their own writers . but as to luther's person , if his crimes were his corpulency , what became of all the fat abbots and monks ? but they were no apostles , or reformers . i easily grant it . but must god chuse instruments , as some do horses , by their fatness to run races . as to luther's conversation , it is justified by those who best knew him , and are persons of undoubted reputation , i mean , frasmus , melancthon , and camerarius . and as to matters in dispute , if he acted according to his principles , his fault lay in his opinions , and not in acting according to them . but whether our church follow luther , or not , it is objected , that we have reformed away the vertues of good living . god forbid . but i dare not think there is any church in the world , where the necessity of good living is more earnestly pressed . but i confess we of the church of england , do think the examples and precepts of christ and his apostles , are to be our rules for the vertues of good living . and according to them , i doubt not , but there are as great examples of devotion , mortification , humility and charity , as in any place whatsoever . but i am afraid this gentleman's acquaintance did not lie much that way ; nor doth he seem to be a very competent judg of the ways of good living , is he did not know how to distinguish between outward appearances and true christian vertues . and according to his way of judging , the disciples of the pharisees did very much outdoe those of our blessed saviour ; as appears by a book we esteem very much , called the new testament : but if i mention it to him , i am afraid he should think i am like the physicians , who send their patients to tu●bridg-wells , or the air of montpellier . ( . ) that two of our bishops , whereof one was primate of all england , renounced and condemned two of the established articles of our church . but what two articles were these ? it seems they wished we had kept confession , which no doubt was commanded of god ; and praying for the dead , which was one of the ancient things of christianity . but which of our articles did they renounce hereby ? i think i have read and consider'd them , as much as this gentleman , and i can find no such articles against confession , and praying for the dead . our church , as appears by the office of the visitation of the sick , doth not disallow of confession in particular cases , but the necessity of it in order to forgiveness in all cases . and if any bishop asserted this , then he exceeded the doctrine of our church , but he renounced no article of it . as to the other point , we have an article against the romish doctrine of purgatory , art. . but not a word concerning praying for the dead , without respect to it . but he , out of his great skill in controversy , believes , that prayer for the dead , and the romish doctrine of purgatory , are the same . whereas this relates to the deliverance of souls out of purgatory , by the suffrages of the living ; which makes all the gainful trade of masses for the dead , &c. but the other related to the day of judgment , as is known to all who are versed in the writings of the ancient church . but this our church wisely passes over ; neither condemning it because so ancient , nor approving it because not grounded on scripture , and therefore not necessary to be observed . ( . ) but his great spite is at the reformation of this church ; which , he saith , was erected on the foundation of lust , sacrilege , and usurpation . and that no paint is capable of making lovely the hideous face of the pretended reformation . these are severe sayings , and might be requited with sharper , if such hard words , and blustering expressions , had any good effect on mankind . but instead thereof , i shall gently wipe off the dirt he hath thrown in the face of our church , that it may appear in its proper colours . and now this gentleman sets himself to ergoteering ; and looks and talks like any grim logician , of the causes which produced it , and the effects which it produced . the schism led the way to the reformation , for breaking the unity of christ's church , which was the foundation of it ; but the immediate cause of this , which produced the separation of hen. . from the church of rome , was the refusal of the pope to grant him a divorce from his first wife , and to gratify his desires in a dispensation for a second marriage . ergo , the first cause of the reformation , was the satisfying an inordina●e and brutal passion . but is he sure of this ? if he be not , it is a horrible calumny upon our church , upon king henry the th , and the whole nation , as i shall presently shew . no ; he confesses he cannot be sure of it : for , saith he , no man can carry it so high as the original cause with any certainty . and at the same time he undertakes to demonstrate the immediate cause to be henry the s . inordinate and brutal passion . and afterwards assirms as confidently as if he had demonstrated it , that our reformation was erected on the foundations of lust , sacrilege , and usurpation . yet , saith he , the king only knew whether it was conscience or love , or love alone , which moved him to sue for a divorce . then by his favour , the king only could know what was the immediate cause of that which he calls the schism . well! but he offers at some probabilities that lust was the true cause . is ergoteering come to this already ? but this we may say if conscience had any part in it , she had taken a long nap of almost twenty years together before she awakened . doth he think that conscience doth not take a longer nap than this , in some men , and yet they pretend to have it truly awaken'd at last ? what thinks he of late converts ? cannot they be true , because conscience hath slept so long in them ? must we conclude in such cases , that some inordinate passion gives conscience a jog at last ? so that it cannot be denied , he saith , that an inordinate and brutal passion , bad a great share at least in the production of the schism . how ! cannot be denied ! i say , from his own words it ought to be denied , for he confesses none could know but the king himself ; he never pretends that the king confessed it ; how then cannot it be denied ? yea , how dare any one affirm it ? especially when the king himself declared in a solemn assembly , in these words , saith hall , ( as near , saith he , as i could carry them away ) speaking of the dissatisfaction of his conscience , — for this only cause , i protest before god , and in the word of a prince , i have asked counsel of the greatest clerks in christendom ; and for this cause i have sent for this legat , as a man indifferent , only to know the truth , and to settle my conscience , and for none other cause , as god can judg . and both then , and afterwards , he declared , that his scruples began upon the french ambassador's making a question about the legitimacy of the marriage , when the match was pr●posed between the duke of orleance and his daughter ; and he affirms , that he moved it himself in confession to the bishop of lincoln , and appeals to him concerning the truth of it in open court. sanders himself doth not deny that the french ambassador ( whom he calls the bishop of tarbe , afterwards card. grammont ; others say it was anthony vesey , one of the presidents of the parliament of paris ) did start this difficulty in the debate about this marriage of the king's daughter ; and he makes a set speech for him , wherein he saith , that the king's marriage had an ill report abroad . but then he adds , that this was done by the king's appointment , and that card. wolsey put him upon it ; but he produces no manner of proofs concerning it , but only , that it was so believed by the people at that time , who cursed the french ambassador . as tho the suspicious of the people were of greater authority than the solemn protestation of the king himself . but i think it may be demonstrated , as far as such things are capable of it , from sanders his own story , that the king 's first scruples , or the jogging of his conscience , as our author stiles it , could not come from an inordinate passion to ann bolleyn . for he makes card. wolsey the chief instrument in the intrigue . let us then see what accounts he gives of his motives to undertake it . he not only takes notice of the great discontent he took at the emperor charles v. the queen's nephew ; but how studious he was upon the first intimation of the king's scruples , to recommend to him the dutchess of alençon the king of france's sister ; and that when there were none present but the king , wolsey , and the confessor . afterwards wolsey was sent on a very splendid ambassy into france , and had secret instructions to carry on the match with the king of france's sister . but when he was at calais , he received orders from the king to manage other matters as he was appointed , but not to say a word of that match . at which , saith sanders , he was in a mighty rage , because he carried on the divorce for nothing more , than to oblige the most christian king wholly to himself by this marriage . how could this be , if from the beginning of his scruples he knew the king designed to marry ann bolleyn ? but sanders thinks to come off with saying , that wolsey knew of the king's love , but he thought he designed her only for his concubine . but this is plainly to contradict himself ; for before he said , that wolsey knew from the beginning whom he intended to marry . besides , what reason could there be , if the king had only a design to corrupt her , that he should put himself and the world to so much trouble to sue out a divorce ? for the divorce was the main thing aimed at in all the negotiations at rome ; other applications had been more proper , if his design was only upon having her for a concubine . but she would not be corrupted . if this were the reason , he must again contradict himself , for he makes her a lewd vicious woman . and it doth not ●eem so probable , if she had been such a person as he des●ribes her , that she would have put the king to so much trouble , and such a tedious method of proceeding , by so many forms of law. but again , sanders saith , when she returned from france , and was at court , she found out what wolsey designed . which makes it evident , by sanders his own words , that the design of the divorce was before the thoughts of ann bolleyn . and it seems very probable , that card wolsey might carry on a publick design by it , to draw the king off from the emperor , and to unite him with france . and the pope at that time being highly displeased with the emperor , he might think it no dissicult thing to procure a dispensation , the king of france's interest being join'd with our king 's . some have written , that the pope himself was in this intrigue at first ; but seeing no proof of i● , i dare not affirm it : it is sussicient for my purpose , that the first design was laid quite another way . i confess afterwards , when wolsey upon his return from france , saw how things were like to go , he struck in with the king's humour , as appears by the letters of ann bolleyn to him : but yet carried himself so coldly afterwards in the matter of the divorce , that it proved one occasion of his fall. thuanus , being an historian of great judgment , saw the inconsistencies of sanders his relations ; and therefore concludes that wolsey was surprized with the business of ann bolleyn , after he went into france , having notice sent him by his friends ; and that wolsey wholly aimed at the french match . mezeray saith , the cardinal could not foresee the love of ann bolleyn , but his design was to be reveaged on the emperor ; and he questions whether the king were smitten with her , till wolsey was sent into france ; when the king so unexpectedly forbad him to proceed in that match , cum summo eras dosore , as sanders confesses . from all this we see plainly , that since sanders makes card. wolsey the great contriver and manager of this business , the immediate cause of the schism could not be the love of ann bolleyn . but we have other kind of proofs concerning this matter , besides sanders his inconsistencies , and those shall be from some of the greatest and most a●live men of that time , and some remarkable circumstances . the sirst is a person of unquestionable integrity , a●d accounted a martyr for his conscience at that time ; i mean sir thomas more then lord chancellor ; who after he had delivered to the house of commons the original papers of the universities in favour of the divorce , he then sa●d , that all men should clearly perceive that the king hath not attempted this matter of will and pleasure , as strangers say , but only for the discharge of his conscience , and the security of the succession to the crown . which was a reason alleadged by the king himself ; and seems to have been built on the grounds which charles the th assigned for breaking his oath which he made to marry the lady mary , by the first article of the treaty at windsor . lord herbert owns that the emperor , to avoid the force of this treaty , had alledged something against the marriage between the king and his aunt : but another author , who lived much nearer the time , doth affirm , that when the match was debated in the spanish council , it was then said , that altho the match between the king and his brother's relict were not yet disputed , yet if the king should die without issue male , rather than the kingdom should pass to foreigners , the english nation would dispute the validity of the marriage . and to confirm this , in sir henry spelman's manuscript-register of the proceedings of the legatine court about the divorce , subscribed by the three notaries there present , the witnesses deposed , that at the time of the marriage , the people said commonly , that it was unfit one brother should marry the other brother's wife . and arch-bishop warham then upon oath declared , that he told k. henry the th , that the marriage seem'd to him neither honourable , nor well-pleasing to god. and he confesses , the people then murmur'd at it , but that the murmuring was quieted by the pope's dispensation . so that all the satisfaction that was given about it , arose from the pope's extraordinary dispensing power with the laws of god. which was a thing vehemently opposed by many in the church of rome ; and the university of bononia it self afterwards declared , that the match was abominable , and that the pope himself could not dispense with it ; and this they say was , after they had read card. cajetan 's defence of the marriage . the like was done by the university of padua ; besid●s many others which i shall not mention , and are easily to be seen . so that the succession to the crown by this match , must depend upon an extravagant power in the pope , which the roman church it self never owned ; and the wisest statesmen thought by no means sit to depend upon . the notice of this debate in the spanish council being sent over to card. wolsey , seems to have been the first occasion taken of starting the question about the lawfulness of the king's marriage ; which wolsey , out of a private grudg to the emperor , as well as for other reasons , was not wanting to carry on , till he saw which way it was like to end . and the pope himself was willing enough to grant the bull for the divorce , till he made a secret peace with the emperor : and it is easy to see that the pope went forwards and backwards in the whole affair , merely as politick considerations moved him . which being fully known to so discerning a prince as henry the th , it gave him just occasion to question , whether that authority were so divine as was pretended , which in so great a matter did not govern it self by any rule of conscience , but by political measures . one remarkable circumstance in this matter ought not to be omitted , viz. that the king's agent at rome sent him word , that the pope's advice was , that if the king's conscience were satisfied , he should presently marry another wife , and then prosecute the suit ; and that this was the only way for the king to attain his desires . but the king refused to do it . and when card wolsey sent a message to the king to the same purpose : the king replied , if the bull be naught , let it be so declared ; and if it be good , it shall never be broken by any by-ways for me . and when he objected the tediousness of the suit , he answered , since he had patience eighteen years , he would stay yet four or five more , since the opinion of all the clerks of his kingdom ( besides two ) were lately declared for him : adding , that he had studied the matter himself , and writers of it ; and that he found it was unlawful , de jure divino , and undispensible . thus we have found the king himself declaring in publick and private , his real dissatisfaction in point of conscience ; and that it was no inordinate affection to ann bolleyn which put him upon it : and the same attested by sir tho. more , and the circumstances of affairs . i now proceed to another witness . the next is bishop bonner himself , in his preface to gardiner's book of true obedience : for thus he begins ; forasmuch as there be some , doubtless , now at this present , which think the controversy between the king 's royal majesty , and the bishop of rome , consisteth in this point , for that his majesty hath taken the most excellent and most noble lady ann to his wife ; whereas in very deed , notwithstanding , the matter is far otherwise , and nothing so . so that if bishop bonner may be believed , there was no such immediate cause of the schism , as the love to ann bolleyn . and withal he adds , that this book was published , that the world might understand what was the whole voice and resolute determination of the best and greatest learned bishops , with all the nobles and commons of england ; not only in the cause of matrimony , but also in defending the gospel's doctrine , i. e. against the pope's usurped authority over the church . again , he saith , that the king's marriage was made , by the ripe judgment , authority , and privilege of the most and principal universities of the world ; and then with the consent of the whole church of england . and that the false pretended supremacy of the bishop of rome was most justly abrogated ; and that if there were no other cause but this marriage , the bishop of rome would content himself , i. e. if he might enjoy his power and revenues still ; which , he saith , were so insupportable , that there lay the true cause of the breach : for his revenues here were near as great as the king 's ; and his tyranny was 〈◊〉 and bitter , which he had exercised here under the title of the catholick church , and the authority of the apostles , peter and paul ; when notwithstanding he was a very ravening wolf , dressed in sheeps clothing , calling himself the servant of servants . these are bonner's words , as i have transcribed them , out of two several translations , whereof one was published while he was bishop of london . stephen gardiner bishop of winchester , in his book , not only affirms the king's former marriage to be unlawful , and the second to be just and lawful ; but that he had the consent of the nation , and the judgment of his church , as well as foreign learned men for it . and afterwards he strenuously argues against the pope's authority here , as a meer usurpation . and the whole clergy not only then owned the king's supremacy , ( fisher excepted ) but in the book published by authority , called , a necessary doctrine and erudition of a christian man , &c. the pope's authority was rejected as an usurpation , and confuted by scripture and antiquity . k. james i. declares , that there was a general and catholick conclusion of the whole church of england in this case . and when some persons suspected , that it all came from the king's marriage , bishop bonner we see undertakes to assure the world it was no such thing . the separation was made then by a general consent of the nation , the king , and church , and people , all concurring : and the reasons inducing them to cast off the popes usurpation , were published to the world at that time . and those reasons have no relation at all to the king's marriage ; and if they are good , as they thought they were , and this gentleman saith not a word to disprove them , then the foundation of the disunion between the church of rome and us , was not laid in the king 's inordinate passion , but on just and sufficient reasons . thus it appears , that this gentleman hath by no means proved two parts of his assertion , viz. that our reformation was erected on the foundations of last and usurpation . but our grim logician proceeds from immediate and original , to concomitant causes ; which ; he saith , were revenge , ambition , and covetousness . but the skill of logicians used to lie in proving ; but this is not our author's talent , for not a word is produced to that purpose . if bold sayings , and confident declarations will do the busines , he is never unprovided ; but if you expect any reason from him , he begs your pardon ; he finds how ill the character of a grim logician suits with his inclination . however , he takes a leap from causes to effects ; and here he tells us , the immediate effects of this schism , were sacrilege , and a bloody persecution , of such as denied the king's supremacy in matters wholly spiritual , which no layman , no king of israel ever exercised . what the supremacy was , is best understood by the book published by the king's order , and drawn up by the bishops of that time. by which it appears , that the main thing insisted on was , rejecting the pope's authority ; and as to the positive part , it lies in these things . . in defending and protecting the church . . in overseeing the bishops and priests in the execution of their office . . in reforming the church to the old limits and pristine estate of that power which was given to them by christ , and used in the primitive church . for it is out of doubt , saith that book , that christ's faith was then most pure and firm , and the scriptures of god were then best understood , and vertue did then most abound and excel : and therefore it must needs follow , that the customs and ordinances then used and made , be more conform and agreeable unto the true doctrine of christ , and more conducing unto the edifying and benefit of the church of christ , than any custom or laws used or made by the bishop of rome , or any other addicted to that see and usurped power since that time . this book was published with the king's declaration before it . and therefore we have reason to look on the supremacy to be taken as it is there explained . and what is there now so wholly spiritual , that no layman , or king of israel , ever exercised in this supremacy ? but this writer never took the pains to search into these things , and therefore talks so at random about them . as to the persecutions that followed , it is well known that both sides blame k. hen. . for his severity ; and therefore this cannot be laid to the charge of his separation . for the other effect of sacrilege , i do not see how this follows from the reformation : for although some uses might cease by the doctrines of it , as monks to pray the dead out of purgatory ; yet there were others to have employed the church lands about , as some of them were in founding new bishopricks , &c. and i have nothing to say in justification of any abuses committed that way ; only that the king and parliament could not discern the difference between greater and lesser as to the point of sacrilege ; and since the pope had shewed them the way , by granting bulls for the dissolution of the lesser monasteries , they thought , since the pope's power was taken away , they might , with as little sacrilege , dissolve the rest . i will shut up this with the words of arch-bishop laud ; but if there have been any wilful and gross errors , not so much in opinion as fact , ( sacrilege too often pretending to reform superstition ) that 's the crime of the reformers , not of the reformation , and they are long since gone to god to answer it , to whom i leave them . the method i proposed for satisfaction of conscience about the reformation , was to consider , whether there were not sufficient cause for it ? whether there were not sufficient authority ? and whether the proceedings of our reformation were not justifiable by the rules of scripture , and the ancient church ? he tells me , he may safely join issue with me upon all three points , and conclude in the negative . but upon second thoughts , he finds he may much more safely let it alone : and very fairly would have me take it for granted , that the church of rome cannot err in matters of faith ; ( for that he must mean by the church there ) and that our church hath no authority ef reforming her self ; and that our proceedings were not justifiable according to the right interpretation of scriptures by the fathers and councils . but if i will not allow his affirmations for proofs , for his part he will act the grim logician no longer ; and in truth , it becomes him so ill , that he doth well to give it over . when he will undertake to prove , that the church of rome is the one catholick and infallible church of christ , and answer what i have produced in the former discourses , i will ease him of any farther trouble ; for then i will grant that our reformation cannot be justified . but till then , i shall think it no want of humility to conclude the victory to be on our side . and i would desire him not to end with such a bare-faced assertion of a thing so well known to be false , viz. that there is not one original treatise written by a protestant , which hath handled distinctly , and by it seif , that christian vertue of humility . since within a few years ( besides what hath been printed formerly ) such a book hath been published in london . but he doth well to bring it off with , at least that i have seen or heard of ; for such books have not lain much in the way of his enquiries . suppose we had not such particular books , we think the holy scripture gives the best rules and examples of humility of any book in the world ; but i am afraid he should look on his case as desperate if i send him to the scripture , since he saith , our divines do that , as physicians do with their patients whom they think uncurable , send them at last to tunbridg-waters , or to the air of montpellier . finis . errata . the folio's , through mistake , are twice repeated , from pag. , pag. , inclusive . page . line , for authority , read antiquity . pag. . l. . f. perso●a , r. parsopa . pag. . l. . f. when , r. whom . l. . f. his , r. as . l. . f. western , r. southern . pag. . l. . f. s. cyprian , r. san lyran. pag. . l. . r. some of the chineses . pag. . l. . a whole line faulty , r. pristinam & melioratam recipere 〈◊〉 sanitate : pag. . ( d . ) l. . blot out not . pag. . l. . blot out both . pag. . l. . f. house of the lord , r. house of lords . pag. . l. . f. satness , r. fitness . l. f. dare not , r. do not . page . l. . f. eras , r. ejus . pag. . l. . f. declarations , r. declamations . books lately printed for richard chiswell . the history of the reformation of the church of england . by gilbert burnet , d. d. in two volumes . folio . the moderation of the church of england , in her reformation , in avoiding all undue compliances with popery , and other sorts of pha●aticism , &c. by timothy puller , d. d. octavo . a dissertation concerning the government of the ancient church : more particularly of the encroachments of the bishops of rome upon other sees . by william cave , d. d. octavo . an answer to mr. serjeant's [ sure footing in christianity ] concerning the rule of faith : with some other discourses . by william falkner , d. d. . a vindication of the ordinations of the church of england ; in answer to a paper written by one of the church of rome , to prove the nullity of our orders . by gilbert burnet , d. d. octavo . an abridgment of the history of the reformation of the church of england . by gilb . burnet , d. d. octavo . the apology of the church of england ; and an epistle to one signior scipio , a venetian gentleman , concerning the council of trent . written both in latin , by the right reverend father in god , john jewel lord bishop of salisbury : made english by a person of quality . to which is added , the life of the said bishop : collected and written by the same hand . octavo . a letter writ by the last assembly general of the clergy of franc● to the protestants , inviting them to return to their communion . together with the methods proposed by them for their conviction . translated into english , and examined , by gilb . burnet , d. d. octavo . the life of william bedel , d. d. bishop of kilmore in ireland . together with certain letters which passed betwixt him and james waddesworth ( a late pensioner of the holy inquisition of sevil ) in matter of religion , concerning the general motives to the roman obedience . octavo . the d●cree made at rome the second of march , . condemning some opinions of the jesuits , and other cas●ists . quarto . a discourse concerning the necessity of reformation , with respect to the errors and corruptions of the church of rome . quarto . first and second parts . a discourse concerning the celebration of divine service in an unknown tongne . quarto . a papist not misrepresented by protestants . being a reply to the reflections upon the answer to [ a papist misrepresented and represented ] . quarto . an exposition of the doctrine of the church of england , in the several articles proposed by the late bishop of condom , [ in his exposition of the doctrine of the catholick church ] . quarto . an answer to three papers lately printed , concerning the authority of the catholick church in matters of faith , and the reformation of the church of england . quarto . a catechism explaining the doctrine and practices of the church of rome . with an answer thereunto . by a protestant of the church of england . . a papist represented and not misrepresented , being an answer to the first , second , fifth and sixth sheets of the second part of the [ papist misrepresented and represented ] ; and for a further vindication of the catechism , truly representing the doctrine and practices of the church of rome . quarto . the lay-christian's obligations to read the holy scriptures . quarto . the plain man's reply to the catholick missionaries . . a vindication of the answer to some late papers concerning the unity and authority of the catholick church , and the reformation of the church of england . quarto . a treatise written by an author of the communion of the church of rome , touching transubstantiation . wherein is made appear , that according to the principles of that church , this doctrine cannot be an article of faith. quarto . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e def. p. . pag. . pag. ● . des. p. , . des. p. . rep. p. . des. p. . rep. p. . rep. p. ● . def. p. , . pag. ● . pag . de eccl●s l. . c. . ibid. c. . catech. rom. part. . c , . ● . . tertul. c. pra●●am c. . no●a collect. concil . bal●● . p. . v. epist. cypri . ep . , . epist. . . fa●● . l. . c. . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . po●● co●● . ba●il x. nova collect. concil . p. . ratra●● . c. graec. ap●d 〈◊〉 . spicil . to. . p. , , , , , , , , . monument a graec. to. . p. . n. . p. . n. , , . ca●is . a●tiq . lect. to. . p. . pag. . innocent . iii. ep. l. . . lib. . . ep. . 〈◊〉 . c● 〈◊〉 . p. ● . 〈◊〉 . l. . c. . l. . c. . st●● . l. . p. , 〈◊〉 , ●● . 〈◊〉 . e●● . . fulg●●t . op. p. ● . lactant. in it . l. . c. ●lt . sola 〈◊〉 catholi● 〈◊〉 qu●●erum cult●● 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . concii . p. . supplem . concil . gall. p. . can. . epist. ad smyrn . eus●b . l. . c. . l. . c. ● . cyril● . catech. . p. . 〈◊〉 . ●o . . p. ●● . 〈◊〉 . in cor. . . opt. c. par. l. . c●m inde dicta sit catholica , quod sit rationabilis & abique dissusa . bal●z . coll. concil . p. , . nos universo orbi christiano communione cohaeremus . n. . et appellantur & merito sunt catholici ipsa sua communione no●●en testantes . catholon enim secundùn tot●●m dicitur . qui autem à toto s●paratus est , partem ●ue defendit ab uniniverso praecisam , non sibi u●●rpet hoc nomen , sed nobiscum teneat veritatem . n. . concil . florent . sess. . concil constant . sess. . concil . gen. to. . p. . de rom. pont. l. . c. . des. p. . pag. . not. in mo●● . gra● . to. ● . p. . reply p. . defence p. . pag. . pag. . catech. rom. part . c. . n. . se●● . . can. , , . de bapt. can. . pag. . pag. ● . reply p. . pag. . pag. , . concil ephes. part . act. . chalcedon . act. . des. p. . pag. . 〈…〉 . a●●● thom. à ●esa . l. . c. . philipp . à ss . trinit . itiner . orient . l. . c. . 〈◊〉 . hist. s●●iet . jesu . l. . . . voyage du mont. li●an 〈◊〉 da●dini remarques s●r chap. ● . p. . diss●rt . de origine , nomine & religion ? ma●o●itar●m . pag. . thom. à jesu . de concil ●mn . gent. l. . c. . pag. . pag. ii. a●g . ● . donat. p. . collat. c. . pag. , . prejugbs legit . contre le jan●●●● . p. . pag. . c. parmen . l. . c. ult . l. . c. , . c. cresom . l. . c. , . pag. . concil . nic. c. . arel . c. . pag. . pag. . pag . deut. . , , , . rom. . . thess. . . s john. . . tim . . gr●g . nyssen de ●ita . mos. p. basil. epist. . chrysost. hom. . to. . theod. de prov. orat. . p. . greg. nazian . ep. . orat. . epist. . heins . in loc . pag. . dis. p. . pag. . 〈◊〉 legit . c. le jansenists , c. . p ag . . pag. . rep. p. . aug. de bapt. c. donatis● l. . c. , . l. . c. , . l. . c. . l. . c. , , , , , , , , , , , . l. . c. , , , . l. . c. . l. . c. . ●●line●● . rep. p. . john . . def. p. , . greg. . epist. reg. l. . ep. . pag. . john . . a● 〈◊〉 . p. . pag. . pag. . i. 〈◊〉 . l. ● . c. , . * l. . . . . † l. . c. . * l. ● . ● . . . . de carut christi , &c. marcion . &c. valentin . def. p. . d● praescript . c. . aufer denique haereticis quae cum ethnicis sapiunt , ut de scripturis solis quaestiones suas sistant , & stare non poterunt . de resur . ca●nis , c. . haereses autem sine aliquibus occasionibus scripturarum audere non poterant ; idcirco pristina instrumenta quasdam materias illis videntur subministrasse , & ipsas quidem iisdem literis revincibiles , c. . lucifugae isti scripturarum , c. . clem. alex. strom. l. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ib. & . orig. dial. c. marcionist . §. . p. . p. . y●od . ad he●●t . fab. pr●ef . & l. . p. . haeret. fab. l. . p. , . st. cyprian , epist. , . reply , p. . aug. de bapt. c. donatill . l. . c. . de●r . dist . c . dist. . c. . de unit . ecel . c. . . c. petil. donar . l. . c. c. maxim. arian . l. . c. . c. faust. l. . c. . de peccator . merit & remiss . l. . . de nuptiis & concupisc . l. . c. . de grat. & lib. arbitrio . c. . in psalm . def. p. . de● p. . theod. l. . c. . bellar. de ver. dei , l . c. . hilar. l. . ad constant. athanas. de synodis tom. . p. . tom. . p. . tom. . c. grat. basil. epist. . tom. . epist. , & haer. . p. , . chrysost. in acta apost . hom. . in joh. hom : ib hom. reply , p. def : p : : reply , p. act synodi eph. p. . hist. concil . to. . p. . bell. de concil . l. . c. . niceph. cum leone armeno disput. ed. combefis , p. . hos. oper. p. . quandoquidem solus ille verè dicitur & est oecumenicus patriarcha , quod concilium ipsius est auctoritate congregatum , id verè dicitur oecumenicum . de concil . l. . ● . . repl. p. def. p. def. p . circa ea quae sunt de necessitate salutis , sufficienter instruuntur ● spiritu sancto , , qu. ar . ad : : donum intellectus nunquam se subtrahit sanctis circa ea quae sunt ●e●●●saria ad salutem ; ib ; ad gul. parisiens . de legibus c : p : , : pag : d. col. . henr. a gand. sum. art. . q. . n. . def. p. p. . p. . def. p. . reply , p. . def. p. . reply . p. . def. p. . reply , p. . def. p . reply , p. . def. p. . def. p. . def : p : : pag. . def. p. . pag. . cler. gallica . declaratio prop. . . censura hungarica . oct. . tractat. de libertat . eccles . gallican . leodii , . regale sacerdotium romano pontifici assertum . auctore eugenio lombardo , . de antiqua ecclesiae dis●iplina dissert . . auct . lud. ellies du pin , . dissert . c. ● ss . . pag. . pag . reply , p. pag. . reply , p. . * dial. . c. . reply . p. . reply , p. . def. p. . reply , p. . inititur enim fides nostra revelationi apostolis & prophetis factae qui canonicos libros scripserunt , non autem revelation si qua fuit aliis doctoribus facta . . q. . ar● ad . . . q. art. . ad . . q. . art . . . q. . art . de haeret : pu●it . l. . c. : loc. theolog. l. . c. . suarez de fide disp. . sect. n. . suarez de fide disp. . sect. . n. . ●●p . . sect. . n. . . . q. . art. . ad . aug epist. non est ergo haereticus nisi qui videns prudens doctrinam eligit fidei contrariam . loc. . c. . suarez de fide disc. . sect. . n. . de bapt. c. donat l c. de civit. dei , l. . c. . c. . q . c. , . ockam dialog l. . c. . &c. c. . ad fin . cap. c. . q . schismae . ● . . c. . c. , &c. c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . gerson . to. . p. . can. loc. th. l. . c. . disp. . de fide sect. . n. . n. . ibid. n. . . ● q l. art . . repl. p. . . . q. . loc. . c. . concedimus enim liberaliter doctrinam cuique in sua vita & stat●● necessariam illi fore perspectam & cognitam , qui fecerit voluntatem dei. deu● natura gratia probl. . p. p. . def. p. . repl. p. . des. p. . page . repl. p. . def. p. . page . page . page . pag. . pag . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. , . pag. . repl. p. . pag. . p. , . pag. . pag. ● . pag. . repl. p. . pag. . pag. . repl. p. . dis. p. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. , . des. p. . rep●● . p. . repl. p. . dis. p. . pag. . des. p. . pag. . . . ib. . lvix pag. . page . . . pag. . . pag. 〈◊〉 . pag. . pag. . pag. . p. , , &c. , . pag. . pag. . ibid. ibid. page ● . page . pag. . ●ag . . pag. ● . pa● . . pag. . pag. . sand. de schism . angl. l. . p. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . acworth . c. sander . l. . ● . , . pag. . history of h. p. . servi fidelis responsio , &c. 〈◊〉 herb. 〈◊〉 . . pag. . apol. for the oath of all●giance . pag. . ●id . conference , 〈◊〉 p. . pag. . . reformation of manners the true way of honouring god with the necessity of putting the laws in execution against vice and profaneness : in a sermon preached at white-hall / by the late right reverend father in god, edward, lord bishop of worcester ; and published by their majesties special command. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) reformation of manners the true way of honouring god with the necessity of putting the laws in execution against vice and profaneness : in a sermon preached at white-hall / by the late right reverend father in god, edward, lord bishop of worcester ; and published by their majesties special command. stillingfleet, edward, - . the second edition. p. printed for tho. bennet, london : . "not printed in any of the volumes of his lordship's sermons." reproduction of original in the trinity college library, cambridge university. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -- sermons. bible. -- o.t. -- samuel, st, ii, -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - rachel losh sampled and proofread - rachel losh text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion reformation of manners , the true way of honouring god. with the necessity of putting the laws in execution against vice and profaneness . in a sermon preached at white-hall . by the late right reverend father in god , edward lord bishop of worcester . and published by their majesties special command . the second edition . not printed in any of the volumes of his lordship's sermons . london , printed for tho. bennet , at the half-moon in st. paul's church-yard , . the way of honouring god by a reformation of manners . in a sermon preached at white-hall . samuel . . for them that honour me i will honour ; and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed . these words were spoken by , a prophet of the lord to eli● at that time , the high-priest and judge over israel , upon occasion of the wickedness of his sons , and the hishonour brought upon religion thereby ; which was so great that it is said , they made the people abhor the offering of the lord. but that we may the better comprehend their scope and design , there are some remarkable particulars to be considered ; with respect to the circumstances that attend them . ( . ) that their sins were of a high and scandalous nature , being an open affront both to the ceremonial and moral law. the offering of the lord was that which himself had appointed in the law of moses ; wherein it was expresly required , that the fat of the sacrifices of peace-offerings must be burnt upon the altar , and after that , the joints were to be divided , and the priest was to have his share , and the people that offer'd them the rest . but these sons of eli thought themselves too great to be tied up to such a strict observance of the niceties of the law ; and therefore they sent their servants to demand what they pleased , without any regard to that order which the laws appointed . it is possible , they might think ( although such lewd and and profane persons are not much given to thinking ) that the matter was not great , how , or in what manner , they took the share which belong'd to them ; but god , who best knew what was pleasing to himself , saith , the sin of the young men was very great before the lord. for god will and ought to be served in his own way , and they , who thought to be wiser than his laws , smarted for their folly . thus nadah and abihu ( two brisk young men ) had a mind to try the experiment of offering strange fire before the lord ( not taking it from the altar as god had appointed . ) and what came of this presumptuous violation of god's law ? they were immediately consumed by a strange fire themselves ; for , it is said , a fire went out from the lord and devoured them , and they died before the lord ; i. e. they were struck dead with lightning upon the place , and their dead bodies were carried forth from before the sanctuary out of the camp ; that all the people might observe the truth of what moses said to aaron on this occasion : this is that the lord spake , saying , i will be sanctified in them that come nigh me , and before all the people i will be glorified . it is true , god did not punish hophni and phinehas in the same manner , who added great lewdness and immorality to their other faults ; but he severely threatens the whole house of eli for their sins ; and as a sign of the rest , he declares , that these profligate wretches should both be taken off the same day ; which was accordingly accomplished with dreadful circumstances ; for , the ark of god was taken at the same time . ( . ) that the house of eli was advanced to that dignity which it then enjoy'd by an extraordinary method of providence : for , when nadab and abihu the sons of aaron were destroy'd , there remained eleazar and ithamar , ( for the other died childless , ) from them descended two branches of aaron's family . eleazar was of the elder house ; but eli , who descended from ithamar , was in possession of the high priesthood by god's approbation . and when abiathar in solomon's time was put by the high priesthood , it is said , that he descended from ithamar , and was of the house of eli ; and he was therefore thrust out that god might fulfil his word , which he spake concerning the house of eli in shiloh . by which we find , that god had raised up the house of eli after an extraordinary manner ; and no doubt , according to the wise methods of divine providence for an extraordinary end ; and we find no ill character fixed upon eli himself , although he had judged israel forty years ; but there were those about him , and very near him , who were loose , profane and dissolute persons , and although , those who are most concerned , do commonly hear the last of the miscarriages of those related to them ; yet the cry was so great that it came to his ears , and he took notice of it , and reproved them for it ; and he said to them , why do ye such things ? &c. the good old man seems to be heartily concerned and troubled for his sons follies ; but this did not answer god's end ; for the reason he gives of the heavy judgments denounced against his family , was , because his sons made themselves vile , and he restrained them not . god expects something more than meer words , or bare reproofs , where his honour , and that of religion , are so much concerned . but when profaneness , looseness and irreligion , crept in among them , and grew too hard for the government , god threatens to do such a thing in israel , at which both the ears of every one that heareth it shall tingle . i need go no farther . ( . ) that although god was justly provoked by the sins of the house of eli ; yet there was a concurrence of the peoples sins in bringing down such severe and astonishing judgments . there was no great loss in hophni and phinehas , unless they had been better ; but it was a terrible judgment to have the ark of god taken , and carried captive ; and thereby their whole religion exposed to scorn and contempt among their neighbours , who hated them for the sake of their religion . for when the idolatrous nations about them had corrupted themselves and the worship of god , he was pleased , by the ministry of moses , to set up a form of worship among the people of israel according to his own will. this gave great dissatisfaction to all their neighbours , and encreased their spight and malice against them ; which they were ready to shew on all occasions ; but never more than when the ark of god was taken captive and carried about in triumph among them : for this was the symbol of god's particular presence among the people of israel . the tabernacle , with all its rich and admirable furniture , was as his court ; but the holy of holies , as his chamber of presence ; and there the ark was the place where god gave his answers to his people on great and solemn occasions . and what could be more grievous and dishonourable to them , than to have this ark of god carried away by their enemies ? for , then the name of the whole nation might have been ichabod , for the glory was departed from israel . but was all this meerly for the sins of hophni and phinehas ? no ; the punishment on that account related to the house of eli ; but this was a judgment on the whole nation : and god himself gives a sad account of it , but it was such , as reached to the nature and extent of the judgment . go ye now , saith god in the prophet jeremiah , unto my place which was in shiloh , where i set my name at the first , and see what i did to it for the wickedness of my people israel . so that here was a complication of the sins of all sorts to bring down so heavy a judgment upon them . and thus i have endeavour'd to clear the way towards the right apprehending the full scope and design of these words , them that honour me i will honour ; and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed . wherein are two things to be spoken to ; i. the nature of that honour which is due to god. ii. the rules and measures whereby god bestows honour on mankind . them that honour me i will honour ; and they that despise me , &c. ( . ) the nature of that honour which is due to god. there are three sorts of men to be consider'd with respect to the honour due to god ; ( . ) such as despise him instead of honouring him . ( . ) such as pretend to honour him but do not . ( . ) such as give him that real honour which is due to him . ( . ) there are such as despise him instead of honouring him . such as the sons of eli here mention'd , who are said to be the sons of belial , who knew not the lord. a strange character of such , who had not only the general advantages of the people of israel to know god above all nations of the world ; but a particular obligation to serve and worship him ! but those do not know god who despise his service . it is impossible to despise infinite goodness and power and wisdom ; for those are things , which all that understand them cannot but reverence and highly esteem . for a poor creature to despise his creatour ; or one that lives upon the bounty of another to despise his benefactour , seems to be such an inconsistency in morality , as if humane nature were uncapable of it . but not withstanding , god himself , who knows the most secret thoughts of mens hearts , saith here , they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed ; although god cannot be despised for his glorious perfections ; yet his authority may be despised , when men presumptuously break his laws ; when they do not regard what he hath commanded or forbidden ; when they profess to know god , but in works they deny him ; when they own a god , and yet live as if there were none , giving themselves over to a profane and irreligious temper of mind , if not to all sorts of wickedness in their lives . and if once such a temper prevails , there is nothing to be expected but an inundation of the other . for those who despise god and religion can have little regard to the differences of good and evil ; and when once the awe of god and conscience is gone , there is nothing can be effectual enough to restrain the violence of natural inclinations . there are two sorts of profane persons too easie to be observed in the world. some are profane in their practises ; who give way to their sensual inclinations and pursue them , as they see occasion , without reflection or consideration . these do not presently shake off the principles of religion and vertue , although they act against them . they know they ought to fear god and to abstain from evil ; but they do neither , leading a loose , dissolute , and wicked life , although if they would but consider what they do , they might soon be convinced of the folly of their actions ; because they act against those principles which they have seen no reason to question , but they have not the grace and resolution to observe them . while they continue thus , there is some hold to be taken of them ; and although their sins be against conscience , yet they are not past hope ; because there is some life left , but under great struglings and decays . but there are others ( i wish i could only say there had been ) who are profane out of principles ; who not only neglect religion , but despise it ; and affront and ridicule it , as far as they dare with regard to their own safety . the other are mischievous to the world by example , but these by design ; those are enemies to themselves and to such as follow them ; but these ought to be look'd on , as the subverters of all that is good , and the promoters of all evil and mischief , and therefore as the truest enemies to mankind , and the pest and bane of humane society ; the dishonour and reproach of their age and country ; and not meerly enemies to mankind , but to god himself , the best and wisest being in the world ; whom as far as in them lies , they endeavour to dethrone from his soveraignty over it . and where such monsters of impiety grow numerous and bold , they bode the most fatal consequences to such a people , where they appear without a publick detestation of them . ( . ) there are such who pretend to honour god , but do not . honour is an act of the mind , ( if it be spoken of real and inward honour , and not of the external signs of it ) and it is in him that gives , and not in him that receives it . but yet those who intend to give honour to another , may do it in such an improper and unsuitable manner , that he for whom it is intended , may look on it as an affront and dishonour to him . therefore he that would give true honour to another must have a just apprehension of his worth and excellency , and give it in such a manner as is most becoming and agreeable to him . now , there are two ways whereby men may be guilty of dishonouring god under a pretence of honouring him . ( . ) by entertaining false notions of god in their minds , and worshiping their own imaginations instead of him. ( . ) by doing honour to him , not according to his nature and will , but according to their own intentions and imaginations . ( . ) by false notions of god in their minds , and by worshiping their own imaginations instead of him ; i. e. when persons form in their minds false imaginations or conceptions of him ; and so give their worship not to the true god , but to an idol of their own fancy . but there is a great deal of difference between such conceptions of god in our minds , which fall short of the perfections of the divine nature , ( as all ours must do for want of faculties to comprehend him ) and such which attribute something to him which is unworthy of him . not , that if any happen to be mistaken in their conceptions of god , we must presently charge them with idolatry ; for the scripture makes that to lie in an open and publick dishonouring of god , by giving that worship which is alone due to him , to any thing besides himself ; it is the setting up of another interest among mankind in opposition to his power and soveraignty ; it is such an exposing the proper object of divine worship as to render it mean and contemptible : for nothing can be a greater disparagement to the divine nature , than to be supposed to be like the work of mens hands ; or to have any of his own creatures to have that worship given to them which belongs to himself ; and so it takes away the due apprehension , which ought to be always maintained of the infinite distance between god and the workmanship of his hands . but these consequences do not reach to inward false conceptions of god ; yet they ought by all possible means to be avoided by those who would give unto god in their minds the honour which is due unto him . and to avoid all wrong apprehensions concerning him , we must settle in our minds such a fixed notion of him , as results from those evidences which prove his being . for , the invisible things of god , saith the apostle , are understood by the things that are made ; i. e. the visible frame of the world doth afford such plain evidence of the wisdom , power , and goodness of the maker of them , that from thence we may form a distinct and clear notion of god in our minds , as a being infinitely wise , powerful and good. this is the most natural , easie , and orderly conception we can have of god in our minds ; because it arises from the same arguments which prove his being . and when our minds are fixed and settled herein , the next thing is to exclude all mean and unworthy thoughts of him , as inconsistent with his divine perfections . therefore , whatever savours of impotency or cruelty ; whatevertends to abate our reverence , to lessen our esteem , to damp our affections , or to cool our devotion towards him , cannot be agreeable to those just conceptions we ought to have always in our minds concerning him . for the honour of god doth not lie in having such terrible apprehensions of his majesty and power and justice as may drive us into horrour and despair ; but in entertaining such an opinion of his wisdom , goodness and loving kindness as may incline us to love him and to trust in his mercy . and then god is truely honoured by us , when we preserve a deep sense and awe of him upon our minds ; when we adore him for his infinite perfections ; when we esteem him as the most proper object of our love , as well as of our fear ; when we put our trust and confidence in him , and depend upon him as to the conveniencies of this life and the happiness of another ; when the desire of our soul is towards him , and our meditation of him is frequent and serious and delightful to us ; when we set him always before us , and direct the course of our lives and actions to the pleasing him ; when we dare not wilfully do any thing to offend him ; but make it our chief study and business to do what tends to his honour , and to promote it in the world. it is therefore of very great consequence , as to the whole course of religion to keep up in our minds , such a true and setled notion of god , as may influence our devotion , reform our disorders , inflame our affections , and keep us from being led aside by the violent and impetuous heats of imagination . for this is the true source of most of the extravagancies of mankind about religion ; they have no true notion of god in their minds , but they dread his power , and know not how to please him ; and so run from one thing to another , through the several methods of superstitions , or enthusiasm , as agrees best with their fancies ; which is so unstable and uncertain a principle , that no steady course of religion can be steer'd by it . a man who acts by imagination , is like a ship at sea without anchor or compass , which rouls up and down just as the wind and the waves carry her . but reason and understanding is a steady and uniform principle , and being well fixed from a due and thorough consideration of the nature and will of god , keeps the mind even and constant , and goes on its course as well as it can , and makes its way , notwithstanding the force of the current and tide of natural inclination be against it ; and that the clouds and vapors of imagination often hinder the freedom of its motion . nothing is so uncomfortable , nothing so ungovernable as a restless imagination ; and when it is oppressed with a religious melancholy , then every thing seems dark and confused ; we neither know god nor our selves as we ought to do , and we must judge amiss when we judge by such a false light : and therefore our wisest course in such a case is to be humble and patient ; to suspend any peremptory judgment as to our selves till we have clearer light , and those mists and vapors are dispersed , which darken and perplex our thoughts . ( . ) men dishonour god , when they pretend to honour him , not according to his will , but their own intentions and imaginations . there are some things practised and defended in the christian world , which one would hardly think possible to have ever prevailed , had it not been that they thought to do honour to god by them . i shall not insist upon the pretences in the church of rome of honouring god against his will , by giving divine and religious worship to images , saints and angels , &c. because though there be a great deal of folly and superstition , and real dishonour to god in them , yet there is no such mischief to the rest of mankind , unless they take up an imagination that god will be honoured by rooting out and destroying all such as cannot comply with them in their superstitious follies . but as the true spirit of religion wears off , that of persecution often comes in the place of it , like wasps and hornets out of a dead carkass . thus in the jewish church in our saviour's time , there was the same outward shew and pomp of religion , which had been in their best times ; and our saviour himself frequented both the synagogue worship and the solemn festivals at the temple ; nay he allow'd that the scribes and pharisees sate in moses's chair , and that his disciples should observe what they taught agreeable to the law ; but yet , he elsewhere charges them that by their traditionary doctrines they had enervated the force of the law ; and therefore they did honour him with their lips , but their heart was far from him ; i. e. they had no true love of god or their neighbour , but they thought to make amends for all that , by a wonderful zeal for their own traditions and the lesser things of the law ; which they shewed not only by an unwearied diligence to gain proselytes , but by dedestroying all such as opposed their designs ; and that not in an ordinary way of passion and revenge , but they would needs have all this to be done for the honour and service of god. whosoever killeth you will think that he doth god service . a strange kind of service indeed , to take away the lives of his best and most useful servants ! but although no religion in the world be so directly contrary to all acts of cruelty an inhumanity as the christian is , yet upon the degeneracy of that , the same kind of spirit hath risen up and prevailed over too great a part of the christian world. but especially the very same jewish spirit of zeal and hypocrisy and cruelty had enter'd in these last ages into a society of men ( whom i need not name ) who have undermined the genuine principles of morality , inflamed the spirits of princes to all the effects of a cruel war and a merciless persecution ; and used their utmost endeavours to root out all such as dare not sacrifice their consciences to the will of a prince under their direction : and which adds to all this , they have the impudence to assume that motto to themselves , ad majorem dei gloriam ; as though they aimed at nothing but doing greater honour to god. such as these go beyond hophni and phinehas ; for their wickedness , although great , was confined to a narrow compass , but these disperse themselves into all states and kingdoms , and carry on the same uniform design , viz. to do all the mischief they can under the pretence of advancing the honour of god. ( . ) but certainly there is a way left to give to god that honour which is due to him ; otherwise , it were to little purpose to say , them that honour me i will honour . but i shall not take in here all the ways how we may honour god , but consider that which is most proper to the design of these words . for which we are to observe , that the external worship and service of god was in general , well enough kept up and observed in the tabernacle at shiloh . there the high priest attended , the daily sacrifices were offer'd , and the people resorted thither at the solemn feasts from all parts of the land : but the great examples of wickedness in the sons of eli had spread themselves so far , that the people were generally corrupted , and the best part of their religion , which lies in a reformation of manners , was almost gone . there were some pious and devout persons , such as eli himself ( a good man but a bad magistrate , being remiss and careless in the execution of his office ) and no doubt , many among the people , as well as elkanah and hannah , were devout and serious in the service of god , and other duties of religion ; but yet god himself takes notice of the wickedness of his people israel , at the time when the ark was removed from shiloh . and therefore we have reason to take particular notice of that passage to eli , concerning the reason of the punishment of his house , because his sons made themselves vile and he restrained them not . for , their sins were of a very contagious nature , and by not restraining them , the people were run into a great degree of looseness and profaneness . so that it was not for eli's personal miscarriages , that god thought himself so dishonoured by him , but for want of taking due care for the suppressing profaneness and corruption of manners in others . and this shews the true way how god may and ought to be honoured by those who are bound to take care of others ; viz. by giving all due encouragement to true religion and vertue , and by making use of the most effectual means for suppressing irreligion and profaneness . and this indeed is a great and noble design fit for the greatest minds and persons of the highest station to to be employed about . i cannot deny , that it is a difficult work ; for it is easier to subdue the bodies than the passions of men ; and how many will rather venture their lives than mortify their lusts ? and let them pretend what they will , we find that they will sooner part with any thing than with their sins . do we not daily see that they will let go honour , reputation , interest , health , and the hopes of heaven , rather than those vices they have been accustomed to the practice of ? how can we then imagine , that the meer fears of the execution of humane laws should presently restrain those , whom no fear of hell or damnation could hitherto reform ? but yet a stop may , and ought to be put to the insolent growth of profaneness ; for if it be suffered to be too hard for our laws , it will in time be too hard for all sort of government . yet how shall a stop be put to it under such difficulties ? for it cannot be denied , that we have excellent laws against vice and debauchery , and that magistrates have had sufficient countenance from authority for the due execution of them . but yet the complaints are great of a mighty overflowing of all sorts of wickedness still among us ; i hope they are not all true ; but yet i am afraid , there is too much ground for them . what is the reason of such a complaint of profaneness and irreligion among us at a time we pretend so much to reformation ? it is no wonder that the bad examples of those who ought to reform others bring vice into fashion ; but when that cannot be alledged , what is the reason that good examples do so little towards the reforming others ? it is easie to resolve all into the corruption of humane nature ; but that is a general answer which serves for all times and places , and must suppose them alike : and if it be a good and sufficient answer , it is to little purpose to talk of laws , religion and reformation : for unless they may have some power to alter and amend the course of mens actions , they signify very little to the real benefit of mankind , no more than sea-marks do towards hindring the course of the tide ; but meer examples , although of excellent use to all ingenuous minds , yet to others they are but like statues of mercury in the road , which point to the right way , but men will go which way they please notwithstanding . therefore to laws and examples the magistrates power must be added , which was appointed for this purpose , to be terrour to those that do evil , as well as an encouragement to those that do well . and then the apostle supposeth the sword is born in vain , when the magistrate is not the minister of god in this respect ; a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil . it was the great and just honour of princes of old , that by their means , mankind was reduced from a rude and disorderly kind of life , to the practice of civility and good manners ; and it is as great a foundation of honour still , when men are so much apostatized from them , to bring them back again to the due order and decency of living . the case is much harder of those who are degenerate under laws , than of those who were so without them ; for they have learnt to despise their remedy , and by arts and subtilties to avoid the force of that , which was intended for their good. but , however , none ought to be discouraged from so excellent a design ; which recommends it self to all wise and good men , and will never want the assistance and prayers of all that are so ; and god himself will in an especial manner give honour to those who thus honour him in his own way ; by using the most effectual means for the reforming the manners of men. but what are those ways which may be called effectual ? it 's true , that depends upon the favour and blessing of god ; but it is no hard matter for us to judge what are the most likely means to be effectual . such as , ( . ) an universal discountenancing of all sorts of vice and profaneness , be the persons of what rank or quality soever . for , if those of the house of eli be suffer'd to transgress , the people will follow their examples ; although the good old man did not like their doings , but he did not take care enough to restrain them . ( . ) an even , steady , vigorous and impartial execution of the laws against looseness and debauchery ; so that it may not look like a sudden heat or design of popularity , but proceeding from a due and well-temper'd zeal for god and religion . ( . ) a wise choice of fit instruments to pursue so good an end ; i mean such as jethro recommended to moses , men of courage and integrity , fearing god and hating covetousness . and such i hope are to be found in the several parts of the nation . ( . ) lastly , a diligent inspection into the behaviour of those who are the proper and immediate instruments for carrying on so good a design . for , if there be no inspection afterwards , it will be look'd on as a meer matter of form , or an order given out to satisfie the importunities of some and the clamours of others . it were to be wished , that all who are imploy'd in such a work had an equal mixture of wisdom and zeal ; but it is not possible to hinder some from having unequal shares of these ; and it is great pity so good a cause should miscarry through the indiscretion of any who are zealous for it . on the other side , it is possible that some who pretend to an equal zeal for it in general , may use such artifices and fair pretences , as may effectually baffle and undermine it , while they seem to be concerned to promote it . so that , what through the intemperate heats of some , the coldness and indifferency of others , and the certain averseness all bad men have to any real design of reformation , there is a necessity for such an affair to be often look'd into , and an account taken of the management of it , if any great advantage be expected by it . and surely no greater advantage can be expected as to this world , than from such a design managed , as it ought to be . for , what can we propose to our selves , that can tend more to promote the honour of almighty god , which we ought above all other things to be concerned for . for , the righteous god loveth righteousness ; and he abhors all kind of wickedness : what then can be more pleasing to him , than to have all sorts of impiety and profaneness discountenanced , punished , and if it be possible , rooted out ? what can tend more to the honour of his vicegerents , than to shew so much of a resemblance to him , as to love what god loves , and to hate what he hates ; and to imploy their power for the same end which god himself doth his , viz. to advance his glory and to do good to mankind ? what can tend more to the honour of our church and nation , than to let the world see by such good works as these , what the reformation is , which we aim at ; not meerly of some disputable points , as to doctrine and practise , ( which we have earnestly contended for , and with great reason , ) but a true and serious reformation of the hearts and lives of men ; without which all our other pretences will fall infinitely short of what god expects from us , and the very name of reformation will be a reproach to us . ii. i now proceed to the second particular , viz. the rules and measures which god observes in distributing honour among men , them that honour me , i will honour ; but they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed . which may be understood two ways ; i. as to the societies of men which have one common interest . ii. as to the interests and honour of particular persons . i. as to such societies of men , which have one common interest . and so it implies , that the welfare and reputation , and flourishing condition of such , depends upon their zeal and concernment for god and religion . but here , we meet very great difficulties ; for reason and experience seem to contradict each other about it . on the one side , it seems most agreeable to the justice of divine providence to reward and punish those in this world who will not be capable of being rewarded or punished in another ; for there will be no communities in another world. but on the other side , we cannot deny matter of common experience ; for , how long have the turkish and papal monarchies ( to name no other ) flourished , when the seven churches of asia , and the churches of africa have been long since destroyed ? how strangely hath mahometism spread in the eastern parts of the world ? and what a check hath there been , upon the reformation in these western parts ? with what a mighty torrent did it prevail at first ? then it stood at a stand , and hath of late years gone so much backward , and suffer'd so very much in many parts of it : and yet we think , and that very justly , that the honour of god is concerned in all this . what shall we say to the insolent oppressors of mankind who make no conscience of ruining cities and countries , and offering violence to the bodies and consciences of men to advance and support their own grandeur ; and yet have been suffer'd to prevail so far as to be made an argument against providence by atheistical men ? it is to be hoped that god in his own time will vindicate his honour and clear this point to the satisfaction of all reasonable men ; but yet , we cannot penetrate into the wisdom and secrets of providence . god will ( no doubt ) take care of his own honour ; but he is not bound to give such men an account of the ways and methods and seasons of his doing it . he often raises up a nation fit for his purpose , and makes them as a scourge to neighbour nations ; and when they have done his work , he suffers them to be humbled , if not destroyed , by the same methods they have used to others . sometimes he raises up one kingdom and nation against another , when their sins make them ripe for vengeance ; and so he takes the potsheards of the earth and breaks them upon one another ; and thus , by their mutual punishment , they both become the executioners of his wrath ; and we cannot determine by the event which was in the greater guilt . so that god takes care of his own honour , by methods we are not able to comprehend . for who can weigh the nations in a balance , and determine how far the sins of one doth exceed the other ? and if we cannot know the number and aggravation of a people sins , we can never fix the measures and degrees of their punishment . but , however , some things are certain ; ( . ) that the sins of a nation do naturally tend to the weakness and dishonour of it . thus a factious , seditious , turbulent temper , not only is the reproach of a people ; but the ready way to destroy it . and yet it hath so happen'd , that when the factions have been almost equally poised , as at rome and carthage , they have raised such an emulation between them , which by their endeavours to out-vie each other , hath for some time preserved their country . who can deny that luxury and debauchery , and all sorts of intemperance , not only sink the reputation of a people , but effeminates and softens them , and makes them careless and idle , regardless of any thing but what makes for their own ease and voluptuousness ? and in all humane probability , such a nation must sink , when a people of more wisdom and courage and resolution , makes it their business to overcome them . so that these sorts of sins are natural causes of weakning the power and interest of a nation . but there are other sins , as profaneness and contempt of god and religion , hypocrisy , idolatry , &c. and of such which work as moral causes , god himself is the only judge , when the measure of their iniquity is filled up . ( . ) sometimes god steps out of his ordinary method and course of providence , either in a way of judgment or mercy . and then he more particularly shows , that those that honour him , he will honour ; and those who despise him shall be lightly esteemed . these things are not every days experience , but when they do happen they deserve to be taken notice of , in a more than ordinary manner . aristotle , who was no great friend to providence , as to humane affairs , professes , that he did not know what to make of the extraordinary success some persons had in their affairs , without any extraordinary visible causes . it is possible , he might have the success of his macedonian friends in his thoughts ; who swallow'd up the common-wealths of greece , as so many morsels , and then destroy'd the mighty persian monarchy . but in these cases , he allows a divine impulse , carrying them on beyond the ordinary measures of humane prudence ; and over-ruling so many things in order to success , as nothing but a divine hand could manage . and when great advantages come to a nation in such a manner , a more than ordinary degree of thankfulness is justly expected , that god may be honoured in a particular manner for the deliverance he works by such means , and the mercies he bestows or continues thereby . ( . ) as to particular persons ; how far this holds , will appear by these things : ( . ) that esteem and honour naturally follows the opinion of anothers desert or excellency . for it is not an arbitrary thing , but is founded on the supposition of something that deserves it . it is like the assent given to mathematical evidence , which is not because they will do it , but because they cannot help it . ( . ) the sincere practise of piety and vertue doth command esteem and reverence . hypocrisy indeed lessens it to the utmost degree ; because it argues a mean and false temper of mind ; but there is nothing in true religion but what tends to raise esteem , for it implies all the things which are allow'd by all persons to gain honour among men. for one that is truely religious is a true lover of god and of mankind ; he is grateful to his benefactour , and always owns in the most solemn manner his dependence upon him , both by prayers and praises ; he is ready to do good to all men , as far as is consistent with his duty to god ; he is just , righteous , and merciful , sober and temperate in the whole course of his life ; he acts not by chance , or for by ends ; but by a fixed principle of being and doing good ; he keeps himself within the bounds which god hath set him ; and with chearfulness and resolution sets himself to do and suffer his will ; and hath so much courage , as to dare to do his duty , and is afraid of nothing so much as offending god. and now let any one judge , whether there be any thing mean or contemptible in all this ; whether every one that hears this character doth not wish it belonged to himself . and that is a certain token that it brings honour and esteem with it . let me then , for a conclusion of all , recommend the practise of reliligion and vertue to all such as are the most concerned for honour and esteem . the world is always vain enough to flatter greatness , either out of weakness or design ; but true greatness of mind despises flattery ; and where that is wanting in any , this very flatterer despises them . but this is a way to be above the reach of contempt , to do justly , and to love mercy , and to walk humbly with god ; and these are the things which god himself assures us are the main parts of our duty . if we be careless of god's honour and service now , the time will shortly come , when we shall heartily wish we had been otherwise . for , how great soever your honour be now , you and that together must in a little time be laid in the dust. and then the main difference will be according to the honour we have done to god ; for , although the text doth hold good , as to this world , as i have already shew'd ; yet the most glorious accomplishment of it will be made evident to all mankind , that those that honor him , god will honour ; and they that despise him shall be lightly esteemed . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e v. . lev. . . v. , . v. , , , . v. . lev. . . lev. . . ch . . v. . ch . . v. . ch . . v. . v. . v. . v. . v. . ●● . . v. . lev. . . chr. . . num. . . chr. . . . kings . . sam. ● . ch . . v. , , , . ch . . v. . ch . . v. . ch . . v. . jer. . . sam. . . tit. . . rom. . luk. . . mat. . . mat. . . joh. . . rom. . . ver . . exod. . . eudem . l. . c. . micah . . the mysteries of the christian faith asserted and vindicated in a sermon preached at s. laurence-jewry in london, april the th, / by the right reverend father in god, edward, lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the mysteries of the christian faith asserted and vindicated in a sermon preached at s. laurence-jewry in london, april the th, / by the right reverend father in god, edward, lord bishop of worcester. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed by j.h. for henry mortlock ..., london : . advertisement on p. 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this indeed would be thought a doctrine worthy of all acceptation by the greatest sinners ; but it could not be a faithfull saying , being not agreeable either to the nature of god , or revelation of his will by christ jesus . but s. paul speaks of such sinners as himself had been ; i. e. such as had been great sinners , but had truely and sincerely repented . of whom i am chief . what then ? must we look on him as the standard and measure of such sinners whom christ jesus came to save ? what will then become of all those who have been sinners of a higher rank than ever he was ? it 's true in the verses before the text , he sets out his sins , as a humble penitent is wont to do , with the worst colours and deepest aggravations , who was before a blasphemer and a persecutor , and injurious ; but yet he adds , that he obtained mercy because he did it ignorantly , in unbelief . how then is s. paul the chief of sinners ? are sins of ignorance and mistake the greatest of sins , for which christ died ? is there no expiation for any other by jesus christ ? what will become then of all such who sin against knowledge and conscience , and not in ignorance and unbelief ? can none of these hope for mercy by christ jesus , although they do truely repent ? but the blood of christ is said elsewhere to cleanse us from all sin ; not , while we continue in them , but if we repent and forsake them . and jesus christ is said to be a propitiation for our sins ; and not for ours only , but for the sins of the whole world. and therefore this expression of s. paul notes his great humility and deep sense of his own sins ; but doth not exclude others from the hopes of pardon whose sins have other aggravations than his had . for , if we leave out the last words as peculiar to his case , yet the other contain in them a true proposition and of the greatest importance to mankind ; this is a faithfull saying and worthy of all acceptation , that christ jesus came into the world to save sinners . this , you may say , is a matter out of all doubt among all such who hope for salvation by christ jesus ; for all are agreed , that one way or other we are to be saved by him . but there is great difficulty as to the way of saving sinners by christ iesus ; whether by the doctrine and example of the man christ jesus , by the power he attained through his sufferings ; or , by the eternal son of god's assuming our nature , and suffering in our stead in order to the reconciling god to us and making a propitiation for our sins . these are two very different hypotheses or notions of christ's coming to save sinners ; and the former seems more easie to be understood and believed ; and the other seems to have insuperable difficulties in point of reason ; and to run our religion into mysteries , which expose our faith and make christianity appear contemptible to men of sense and understanding . is it not therefore much better to embrace such a scheme of it , as will have the least objection against it , that so men of reason may not be tempted to infidelity , and men of superstition may not under the colour of mysteries bring in the most absurd and unreasonable doctrines ? these are plausible insinuations , and would be apt to prevail on considering mens minds , if they were to form and make a religion that might be most accommodated to the genius and humour of the age they live in . and truely no men ( by their own authority ) can pretend to a right to impose on others any mysteries of faith , or any such things which are above their capacity to understand . but that is not our case ; for we all profess to believe and receive christianity as a divine revelation ; and god ( we say ) may require from us the belief of what we may not be able to comprehend , especially if it relates to himself , or such things which are consequent upon the union of the divine and human nature . therefore our business is to consider , whether any such things be contained in that revelation which we all own ; and if they be , we are bound to believe them , although we are not able to comprehend them . now here are two remarkable characters in these words , by which we may examin these different hypotheses concerning the way of salvation by jesus christ. i. it is a faithfull saying , and therefore must be contained in that revelation which god hath made concerning our salvation by christ. ii. it is worthy of all acceptation ; i. e. most usefull and beneficial to mankind . now by these two i shall proceed in the examination of them . i. which is most agreeable to the revealed will of god. ii. which doth offer fairest for the benefit and advantage of mankind . i. which is most , agreeable to the revealed will of god. for that we are sure is the most faithfull saying ; since men of wit and reason may deceive us , but god cannot . when the apostles first preached this doctrine to the world , they were not bound to believe what they affirmed to be a faithfull saying till they gave sufficient evidence of their authority from god , by the wonderfull assistance of the holy ghost . but now this faithfull saying is contained in the books of the new testament , by which we are to judge of the truth of all christian doctrines . and when two different senses of places of scripture are offer'd , we are to consider , which is most reasonable to be preferr'd . and herein we are allow'd to exercise our reason as much as we please ; and the more we do so , the sooner we shall come to satisfaction in this matter . now according to reason we may judge that sense to be preferr'd , ( . ) which is most plain and easie and agreeable to the most received sense of words ; not that which is forced and intricate , or which puts improper and metaphorical senses upon words which are commonly taken in other senses ; especially when it is no sacramental thing , which in its own nature is figurative . ( . ) that which suits most with the scope and design not only of the particular places , but of the whole new testament ; which is , to magnifie god and to depress man ; to set forth , the infinite love and condescension of god in giving his son to be a propitiation for our sins ; to set up the worship of one true god in opposition to creatures ; to represent and declare the mighty advantages mankind receive by the sufferings of christ jesus . ( . ) that which hath been generally received in the christian church to be the sense of those places . for , we are certain , this was always look'd on as a matter of great concernment to all christians ; and they had as great capacity of understanding the sense of the apostles ; and the primitive church had greater helps for knowing it than others at so much greater distance . and therefore the sense is not to be taken from modern inventions , or criticisms , or pretences to revelation ; but that which was at first deliver'd to the christian church and hath been since received and embraced by it in the several ages ; and hath been most strenuously asserted , when it hath met with opposition , as founded on scripture and the general consent of the christian church . ( . ) that which best agrees with the characters of those persons from whom we receive the christian faith ; and those are christ jesus and his holy apostles . for , if their authority be lost , our religion is gone ; and their authority depends upon their sincerity and faithfulness , and care to inform the world aright in matters of so great importance . ( . ) i begin with the character which the apostles give of christ jesus himself ; which is , that he was a person of the greatest humility and condescension , that he did not assume to himself that which he might justly have done . for let the words of s. paul be understood either as to the nature , or dignity of christ , it is certain that they must imply thus much , that when christ jesus was here on earth , he was not of a vain assuming humour , that he did not boast of himself , nor magnifie his own greatness , but was contented to be look'd on as other men ; although he had at that time far greater and diviner excellency in him than the world would believe . less than this , cannot be made of those words of the apostle , who being in the form of god , he thought it not robbery to be equal with god , but made himself of no reputation and took upon him the form of a servant . now this being the character given of him let us consider what he doth affirm concerning himself . for although he was far from drawing the people after him , by setting forth his own perfections ; yet upon just occasions , when the jews contested with him , he did assert such things , which must favour of vanity and ostentation , or else must imply that he was the eternal son of god. for , all mankind are agreed that the highest degree of ambition lies in affecting divine honour , or for a meer man to be thought a god. how severely did god punish herod for being pleased with the peoples folly in crying out , the voice of god and not of man ? and therefore he could never have born with such positive assertions and such repeated defences of his being the son of god in such a manner as implied his being so from eternity . this in his disputes with the jews he affirms several times , that he came down from heaven , not in a metaphorical but in a proper sense , as appears by those words , what and if ye shall see the son of man ascend up where he was before ? in another conference he asserted , that he was before abraham . which the jews so literally understood , that without a metaphor they went about to stone him ; little imagining that by abraham the calling of the gentiles was to be understood . but above all , is that expression which he used to the jews at another conference , i and my father are one ; which they understood in such a manner that immediately they took up stones to have stoned him . what means all this rage of the jews against him ? what ? for saying that he had unity of consent with his father ? no certainly . but the jews misunderstood him . let us suppose it ; would not our saviour have immediately explained himself to prevent so dangerous a misconstruction ? but he asked them , what it was they stoned him for ? they answer him directly and plainly , because that thou being a man makest thy self god. this was home to the purpose . and here was the time for him to have denied it , if it had not been so . but doth he deny it ? doth he say , it would be blasphemy in him to own it ? no ; but he goes about to defend it ; and proves it to be no blasphemy for him to say that he was the son of god ; i.e. so as to be god , as the jews understood it . can we imagin that a meer man knowing himself to be such , should assume this to himself ; and yet god to bear witness to him not only by miracles but by a voice from heaven , wherein he was called his beloved son in whom he was well pleased ? could god be pleased with a mortal , finite , despicable creature , as the jews thought him , that assumed to himself to be god and maintained and defended it among his own people , in a solemn conference at a very publick place in one of the portico's of the temple ? and this he persisted in to the last . for , when the high priest adjured him by the living god to tell , whether he were the christ the son of god , ( for he , no doubt , had heard of the result of this conference in solomon's porch ) jesus said unto him , thou hast said . s. mark , more expresly , jesus said i am . and this was the blasphemy , for which they put him to death ; as appears by the evangelists . so that this ought to be a dispute only between jews and christians ; since it was the very point , for which they condemned him to death . and in his last most divine prayer just before his suffering , he owns the glory which he had with the father before the world had a being . and now , o father , glorifie thou me with the glory which i had with thee , before the world was . was this nothing but the glory which god had designed to give him ? this is so far from being peculiar to christ , that it is common to all whom god designs to glorifie ; and takes away the distinction between the decree and the execution of it . ( . ) as to the apostles , the reason we believe their testimony is , that they were men of great sincerity and plainness , and of great zeal for the honour and glory of god. and according to this character , let us examin what they say concerning christ jesus . he that was most conversant with him , and beloved by him , and lived to see his divinity contested by some , and denied by others , is most ample in setting it forth in his admirable , sublime , and divine introduction to his gospel . which all the wit of mankind can never make tolerable sense of , if they deny christ's being the eternal son of god ; and it is he , that hath preserved those conferences with the jews , wherein he asserts his own divinity . s. paul was a stranger to him while he lived ; but at the same time when he was so zealous to perswade the gentiles to the worship of god and not of creatures , he calls him god , over all blessed for evermore . and when he saith , that the eternal power and godhead are known by the creation of the world , he attributes the creation of all things to christ , applying to him those words of the psalmist , thou lord in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth and the heaven , the work of thy hands . which cannot be understood of any metaphorical creation . and after the strictest examination of copies , those will be found the best , which have that reading on which our translation is grounded . and without controversie great is the mystery of godliness , god was manifest in the flesh. so that god's being manifest in the flesh is made a great part of the mystery of christianity . but here arises a difficulty , which deserves to be consider'd ; i. e. if there were nothing in the christian doctrine , but the way of saving sinners by the doctrine and example of christ , there would be little objection to be made to it ; since the obtaining eternal life is certainly the best thing can be proposed to mankind , and the precepts of christ are divine and spiritual , plain and easie to be understood , and agreeable to the reason of mankind ; but many other things are imposed on men as necessary to be believed concerning christ jesus , as to his divinity , incarnation , and the hypostatical union of both natures , which perplex and confound our understandings ; and yet these things are not only deliver'd as mysteries of the christian faith ; but the belief of them is required as necessary to the salvation of sinners ; whereas , if they are revealed they are no longer mysteries ; and if they are not revealed , how come they to be made articles of faith ? the scripture knows of no other mysteries of faith but such as were hidden before the revelation of them , but since they are revealed they are plain and open to all mens capacities ; and therefore it is a great injury to the plainness and simplicity of the gospel to impose such incomprehensible mysteries , as necessary articles of faith ; and it is abusing the credulity of mankind , to make such things necessary to be believed , which are impossible to be understood . but those who have ever loved to deceive and abuse the rest of the world , have been always fond of the name of mysteries ; and therefore all such things are to be suspected , which come under that name . for , all such points which will not bear examination , must be wrapt up and reverenced under the name of mysteries , that is , of things to be swallow'd without being understood . but the scripture never calls that a mystery which is incomprehensible in it self , though never so much revealed . this is the main force of the objection , which i shall endeavour to remove by shewing , ( . ) that god may justly require from us in general , the belief of what we cannot comprehend . ( . ) that which way soever the way of salvation by christ be explained , there will be something of that nature found in it ; and that those who reject the mysteries of faith run into greater difficulties than those who assert them . ( . ) that no more is required as a necessary article of faith than what is plainly and clearly revealed . ( . ) that god may justly require from us in general , the belief of what we cannot comprehend . it is to very little purpose to enquire whether the word mystery in scripture be applied to such particular doctrines , whose substance is revealed , but the manner of them is incomprehensible by us ; for why may not we make use of such a word whereby to express things truely revealed , but above our comprehension ? we are certain the word mystery is used for things far less difficult and abstruse ; and why may it not then be fitly applied to such matters , which are founded on divine revelation , but yet are too deep for us to go to the bottom of them ? are there not mysteries in arts , mysteries in nature , mysteries in providence ? and what absurdity is there to call those mysteries , which in some measure are known , but in much greater unknown to us ? although therefore in the language of scripture it be granted , that the word mystery is most frequently applied , to things before hidden , but now revealed , yet there is no incongruity in calling that a mystery , which being revealed , hath yet something in it which our understandings cannot reach to . but it is meer cavilling to insist on a word , if the thing it self be granted . the chief thing therefore to be done is , to shew that god may require from us the belief of such things which are incomprehensible by us . for , god may require any thing from us , which it is reasonable for us to do ; if it be then reasonable for us to give assent where the manner of what god hath revealed is not comprehended , then god may certainly require it from us . hath not god revealed to us that in six days he made heaven and earth and all that is therein ? but is it not reasonable for us to believe this , unless we are able to comprehend the manner of god's production of things ? here we have something revealed and that plainly enough , viz. that god created all things , and yet , here is a mystery remaining as to the manner of doing it . hath not god plainly revealed that there shall be a resurrection of the dead ? and must we think it unreasonable to believe it , till we are able to comprehend all the changes of the particles of matter from the creation to the general resurrection ? but it is said that there is no contradiction in this , but there is in the mystery of the trinity and incarnation . it is strange boldness in men to talk thus of monstrous contradictions in things above their reach . the atheists may as well say , infinite power is a monstrous contradiction ; and god's immensity and his other unsearchable perfections are monstrous paradoxes and contradictions . will men never learn to distinguish between numbers and the nature of things ? for three to be one is a contradiction in numbers ; but whether an infinite nature can communicate it self to three different subsistences without such a division as is among created beings , must not be determin'd by bare numbers , but by the absolute perfections of the divine nature ; which must be owned to be above our comprehension . for let us examin some of those perfections which are most clearly revealed and we shall find this true . the scripture plainly reveals , that god is from everlasting to everlasting ; that he was and is and is to come ; but shall we not believe the truth of this till we are able to fathom the abyss of god's eternity ? i am apt to think ( and i have some thoughtfull men concurring with me ) that there is no greater difficulty in the conception of the trinity and incarnation , than there is of eternity . not , but that there is great reason to believe it ; but from hence it appears that our reason may oblige us to believe some things which it is not possible for us to comprehend . we know that either god must have been for ever , or it is impossible he ever should be ; for if he should come into being when he was not , he must have some cause of his being ; and that which was the first cause would be god. but , if he was for ever he must be from himself ; and what notion or conception can we have in our minds concerning it ? and yet , atheistical men can take no advantage from hence ; because their own most absurd hypothesis hath the very same difficulty in it . for something must have been for ever . and it is far more reasonable to suppose it of an infinite and eternal mind , which hath wisdom and power and goodness to give being to other things , than of dull , stupid and sensless matter , which could never move it self , nor give being to any thing besides . here we have therefore a thing which must be owned by all ; and yet such a thing which can be conceived by none . which shews the narrowness and shortness of our understandings , and how unfit they are to be the measures of the possibilities of things . vain men would be wise ; they would fain go to the very bottom of things , when alas ! they scarce understand the very surface of them . they will allow no mysteries in religion ; and yet every thing is a mystery to them . they cry out of cheats and impostures under the notion of mysteries ; and yet there is not a spire of grass but is a mystery to them ; they will bear with nothing in religion which they cannot comprehend , and yet there is scarce any thing in the world which they can comprehend . but above other things the divine perfections , even those which are most absolute and necessary are above their reach . for let such men try their imaginations about god's eternity , not meerly how he should be from himself , but how god should coexist with all the differences of times and yet there be no succession in his own being . i do not say there is such difficulty to conceive a rock standing still when the waves run by it ; or the gnomon of a dial when the shadow passes from one figure to another ; because these are gross unactive things ; but the difficulty is far greater where the being is perfect and always active . for , where there is succession there is a passing out of not being in such a duration into being in it ; which is not consistent with the absolute perfection of the divine nature . and therefore god must be all at once what he is , without any respect to the difference of time past , present or to come . from whence eternity was defined by boethius to be a perfect and complete possession all at once of everlasting life . but how can we form any conception in our minds of that being all at once , which hath such different acts as must be measur'd by a long succession of time ? as , the creating and dissolving the frame of the world ; the promising and sending the messias ; the declaring and executing a general judgment ; how can these things be consistent with a permanent instant , or a continuance of being without succession ? for , it is impossible for us in this case , as to god's eternity , to form a clear and distinct idea in our mind , of that which both reason and revelation convince us must be . the most we can make of our conception of it is , that god hath neither beginning of being , nor end of days ; but that he always was and always must be . and this is rather a necessary conclusion from reason and scripture , than any distinct notion or conception of eternity in our minds . from whence it evidently follows , that god may reveal something to us , which we are bound to believe , and yet after that revelation the manner of it may be incomprehensible by us , and consequently a mystery to us . hath not god revealed to us in scripture the spirituality of his own nature ? that he is a spirit and therefore will be worshipp'd in spirit and in truth ; for , that is a true reason why spiritual worship should be most agreeable to him . now , if we could have a clear , distinct positive notion in our minds of god's spiritual nature , we might then pretend that there is nothing mysterious in this , since it is revealed . but let such men examin their own thoughts about this matter ; and try , whether the utmost they can attain to , be not something negative , viz. because great absurdities would follow if we attributed any thing corporeal to god ; for , then he must be compounded of parts , and so he may be dissolved ; then he must be confined to a certain place , and not every-where present ; he cannot have the power of acting and self-determining which a a meer body hath not . for the clearest notion we can have of body , is , that it is made up of some things as parts of it , which may be separated from each other , and is confined to a certain place , and hath no power to move or act from it self . but some of these men who cry down mysteries and magnifie reason , to shew how slender their pretences to reason are , have asserted a corporeal god , with shape and figure . it was indeed , well thought of by those who would make a man to be god , to bring god down as near to man as might be . but how to reconcile the notion of a body with infinite perfections , is a mystery to me , and far above my comprehension . but if it be no mystery to such men , they must either deny god's infinite perfections or shew how a bodily shape can be capable of them . but some men can confound finite and infinite , body and spirit , god and man , and yet are for no mysteries ; whereas these things are farther from our reach and comprehension , than any of those doctrines which they find fault with . but to proceed . if we believe prophesie , we must believe gods fore-knowledge of future events : for , how could they be fore-told if he did not fore-know them ? and if he did fore-know those which he did fore-tell , then it was either because those only were revealed to him which is inconsistent with the divine perfections ; or that he doth fore-know all other events and only thought fitting to reveal these : but how can they solve the difficulties about divine prescience ? is there no mystery in this ? nothing above their comprehension ? what then made their great master deny it , as a thing above his comprehension ? because nothing can be fore-known but what hath a certain cause , and therefore , if evil actions be fore-told god must be the cause of them , and men will not be free agents in them . and yet it is most certain , that the sufferings of christ by the wickedness of men , were fore-told . what then ? must we make god the author of sin ? god forbid . will the righteous judge of all the earth , punish mankind for his own acts , which they could not avoid ? then we must yield , that there is something in the manner of the divine prescience , which is above our comprehension . and the most searching and inquisitive men have been forc'd to yield it at last , as to the connection between the certainty of prescience and the liberty of human actions . is it not then much better to sit down quietly at first , adoring the infiniteness of god's incomprehensible perfections , than after all the huffings and disputings of men to say , in ignorantiâ solâ quietem invenio , as the great schoolman did ? surely then , here is something plainly revealed , and yet the manner of it is still a mystery to us . i shall not now insist on any more of the particular attributes of god , but only in general i desire to know , whether they believe them to be finite or infinite ? if to be finite , then they must have certain bounds and limits which they cannot exceed ; and that must either be from the imperfection of nature , or from a superiour cause , both which are repugnant to the very being of god. if they believe them to be infinite , how can they comprehend them ? we are strangely puzzled in plain , ordinary , finite things ; but it is madness to pretend to comprehend what is infinite ; and yet if the perfections of god be not infinite they cannot belong to him. i shall only adde , in consequence to this assertion , that if nothing is to be believed , but what may be comprehended , the very being of god must be rejected too . and therefore i desire all such who talk so warmly against any mysteries in religion to consider whose work it is they are doing ; even theirs who under this pretence go about to overthrow all religion . for , say they , religion is a mystery in its own nature ; not this or that , or the other religion ; but they are all alike , all is mystery ; and that is but another name for fraud and imposture . what were the heathen mysteries but tricks of priest-craft ; and such are maintained and kept up in all kinds of religion . if therefore these men , who talk against mysteries understand themselves , they must in pursuance of their principles reject one god , as well as three persons ; for , as long as they believe an infinite and incomprehensible being , it is nonsense to reject any other doctrine , which relates to an infinite being , because it is incomprehensible . but yet these very men , who seem to pursue the consequence of this principle to the utmost , must assert something more incomprehensible than the being of god. for , i appeal to any man of common understanding , whether it be not more agreeable to reason to suppose works of skill , beauty and order to be the effects of a wise and intelligent being , than of blind chance and unaccountable necessity ; whether it be not more agreeable to the sense of mankind to suppose an infinite and eternal mind endued with all possible perfections to be the maker of this visible world ; than , that it should start out from it self , without contrivance , without order , without cause ? certainly such men have no reason to find fault with the mysteries of religion because they are incomprehensible , since there is nothing so absurd and incomprehensible , as their darling hypothesis ; and , there is nothing which can make it prevail , but to suppose mankind to be as dull and insensible as the first chaos . thus i have shewn that it is not unreasonable for god to require from us the belief of something which we cannot comprehend . ( . ) i now come to consider , whether those who are so afraid of incomprehensible mysteries in our faith , have made it so much more easie in the way they have taken . and notwithstanding all the hectoring talk against mysteries and things incomprehensible in religion , i find more insuperable difficulties in point of reason in their way than in ours . as for instance , ( . ) it is a more reasonable thing to suppose something mysterious in the eternal son of god's being with the father before the world was made by him ; ( as s. iohn expresses it in the beginning of his gospel ) than in supposing that although iohn the baptist were born six months before jesus christ ; that yet christ was in dignity before him . what a wonderfull mystery is this ? can men have the face to cry down mysteries in deep speculations , and matters of a high and abstruse nature , when they make such mysteries of plain and easie things ? and suppose the evangelist in profound language and lofty expressions to prove a thing , which was never disputed , viz. that although christ jesus were born six months after iohn , yet he was in dignity before him ? yet this was a mystery , which , as i remember , faustus socinus glories in that his uncle laelius obtained by revelation . ( . ) it is a more reasonable thing to suppose that a divine person should assume human nature , and so the word to be made flesh ; than to say , that an attribute of god , his wisdom or power is made flesh , which is a mystery beyond all comprehension ; there may be some difficulties in our conception of the other , but this is a thing beyond all conception or imagination ; for an accident to be made a substance is as absurd , as to imagin it to subsist without one . ( . ) it is more reasonable to suppose that the son of god should come down from heaven and take our nature upon him , than that a man should be rapt up into heaven , that it might be said that he came down from thence . for in the former supposition we have many other places of scripture to support it , which speak of his being with god , and having glory with him before the world was ; whereas there is nothing for the other , but only that it is necessary to make some tolerable sense of those words . ( . ) it is more reasonable to believe that god should become man by taking our nature upon him , than that man should become god. for in the former , there is nothing but the difficulty of conceiving the manner of the union , which we all grant to be so between soul and body ; but in the other there is a repugnancy in the very conception of a created god , of an eternal son of adam , of omnipotent infirmity , of an infinite finite being . in the former case , an infinite is united to a finite ; but in the other a finite becomes infinite . ( . ) it is more reasonable to believe that christ jesus should suffer as he did for our sakes than for his own . we are all agreed that the sufferings of christ were far beyond any thing he deserved at god's hands ; but what account then is to be given of them ? we say that he made himself a voluntary sacrifice for expiation of the sins of mankind ; and so there was a great and noble end designed , and no injury done to a willing mind ; and the scripture as plainly expresses this , as it can do in words . but others deny this , and make him to suffer as one wholly innocent ; for what cause ? to make the most innocent persons as apprehensive of suffering as the most guilty ; and the most righteous god to put no difference between them , with respect to suffering ? ( . ) it is more reasonable to suppose such a condescension in the son of god to take upon him the form of a servant for our advantage ; than that a meer man should be exalted to the honour and worship which belongs only to god. for , on the one side , there is nothing but what is agreeable to the divine nature , viz. infinite love and condescension and pity to mankind ; on the other , there is the greatest design of self-exaltation that ever was in human nature , viz. for a meer man to have the most essential attributes and incommunicable honour which belongs to god. and whether of these two is more agreeable to the spirit and design of the new testament , let any man of understanding judge . for as it is evident , that the great intention of it is to magnifie the wonderfull love of god in the sending of his son ; so it is as plain that one great end of the christian doctrine was to take mankind off from giving divine worship to creatures ; and can we then suppose that at the same time it should set up the worship of a meer man with all the honour and adoration which belongs to god ▪ this is to me an incomprehensible mystery indeed , and far beyond all that is implied in the mysteries of the trinity and incarnation . for it subverts the very foundation of the design of christianity as to the reforming idolatry then in being ; it lays the foundation for introducing it into the world again ; for since the distance between god and his creatures is taken away , in the matter of worship , there is nothing left but the declaration of his will ; which doth not exclude more mediators of intercession but upon this ground , that the mediation of redemption is the foundation of that of intercession . and it is far more easie for us to suppose there may be some things too hard for us to understand in the mystery of our redemption by jesus christ , than that at the same time it should be both a duty and a sin to worship any but the true god with proper divine worship . for if it be idolatry to give it to a creature , then it is a great sin ; for so the scripture still accounts it ; but if we are bound to give it to christ who is but a creature , then that which in it self is a sin , is now become a necessary duty ; which overthrows the natural differences of good and evil , and makes idolatry to be a meer arbitrary thing . and i take it for granted , that in matters of religion , moral difficulties are more to be regarded than intellectual ; because religion was far more designed for a rule of our actions , than for the satisfaction of our curiosity . and upon due examination we shall find that there is no such frightfull appearances of difficulties in the mystery of the incarnation , as there is in giving divine worship to a creature . and it ought to be observed , that those very places which are supposed to exclude christ from being the true god ; must , if they have any force , exclude him from divine worship . for they are spoken of god as the object of our worship ; but if he be not excluded from divine worship , then neither is he from being the true god ; which they grant he is by office but not by nature . but a god by office who is not so by nature is a new and incomprehensible mystery . a mystery hidden from ages and generations as to the church of god ; but not made known by the gospel of his son. this is such a kind of mystery as the heathen priests had , who had gods many and lords many , as the apostle saith , i. e. many by office although but one by nature . but if the christian religion had owned one god by nature and only one by office , the heathens had been to blame chiefly in the number of their gods by office , and not in the divine worship which they gave to them . but s. paul blames the heathens for doing service to them which by nature are no gods ; not for doing it without divine authority , nor for mistaking the person who was god by office , but in giving divine worship to them who by nature were no gods ; which he would never have said , if by the christian doctrine , divine worship were to be given to one who was not god by nature . but these are indeed incomprehensible mysteries how a man by nature can be a god really and truely by office ; how the incommunicable perfections of the divine nature can be communicated to a creature ; how god should give his glory to another , and by his own command require that to be given to a creature , which himself had absolutely forbidden to be given to any besides himself . it is said by a famous iesuit ( i will not say how agreeably to their own doctrines and practices about divine worship ) that the command of god cannot make him worthy of divine worship , who without such a command is not worthy of it . and it is very absurd to say , that he that is unworthy of it without a command , can become worthy by it ; for it makes god to command divine honour to be given to one who cannot deserve it . ( for no meer man can deserve to be made god. ) but it is more agreeable to the divine nature and will not to give his honour to a creature . ( . ) but after all the invectives of these enemies to mysteries , we do not make that which we say is incomprehensible to be a necessary article of faith as it is incomprehensible ; but we do assert that what is incomprehensible as to the manner , may be a necessary article as far as it is plainly revealed . as in the instances i have already mentioned of the creation and resurrection of the dead ; would they in earnest have men turn infidels as to these things till they are able to comprehend all the difficulties which relate to them ? if not , why should this suggestion be allow'd as to the mysteries which relate to our redemption by jesus christ ? if it be said , the case is not alike for those are clearly revealed and these are not ; this brings it to the true and proper issue of this matter , and if we do not prove a clear revelation , we do not assert their being necessary articles of faith ; but my present business was only to take off this objection that the mysteries were incomprehensible and therefore not to be received by us . ii. and so i come to the second way , by which , we are to examin the several senses of christ jesus coming to save sinners : which of them tends more to the benefit and advantage of mankind ; or which is more worthy of all acceptation . and that will appear by considering these things ; ( . ) which tends most to the raising our esteem and love of christ jesus . ( . ) which tends most to the begetting in us a greater hatred of sin. ( . ) which tends most to the strengthening our hope of salvation by jesus christ. ( . ) as to the raising in us a greater esteem and love of christ. we are certain that the infinite love and condescension of christ jesus in under●aking such a work as the saving of sinners makes 〈◊〉 most worthy of all acceptation . some men may please themselves in thinking that by taking away all mysteries they have made their faith more easie , but i am certain they have extremely lessen'd the argument for our love , viz. the apprehensions of the wonderfull love and condescension of christ in coming into the world to save sinners . and yet this is the great argument of the new testament to perswade mankind to the love of god and of his son : god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son , &c. this is indeed a mighty argument of love , if by the only begotten son be meant the eternal son of god , who came down from heaven , as s. iohn speaks just before ; but if no more be meant but only that god made a meer man to be his son , and after he had preached a while here on earth and was ill used and crucified by his own people , he exalted him to be god and gave him divine attributes and honours ; this were an argument of great love to the person of christ , but not to the rest of mankind . but gods love in scripture is magnified with respect to the world in the sending of his son. in this was manifested , saith the apostle , the love of god towards us , because that god sent his only begotten son into the world that we should live through him . herein is love , not that we loved god , but that he loved us and sent his son to be a propitiation for our sins . the great love we still see is towards us , i. e. towards mankind , but according to the other sense it must have been , herein was the love of god manifested to his son , that for his sufferings he exalted him above all creatures . he that spared not his own son , saith s. paul , but deliver'd him up for us all . if he were the eternal son of god who came to suffer for us , there is a mighty force and emphasis in this expression , and very apt to raise our admiration and our love ; but what not sparing his own son is there , if nothing were meant but that he designed by sufferings to exalt him ? for not sparing him supposes an antecedent relation of the highest kindness , but the other is only designing extraordinary kindness for the sake of his sufferings . therefore , the argument for the love of god is taken from what his son was , when he deliver'd him up for us all ; he was his own son ; not by adoption as others are ; s. iohn calls him , his only begotten son ; and god himself , his beloved son in the voice from heaven ; and this before his sufferings , immediately after his baptism , when as yet , there was nothing extraordinary done by him , as to the great design of his coming . which shews , that there was an antecedent relation between him and the father ; and that therein the love of god and of christ was manifested , that being the only begotten son of the father , he should take our nature upon him and for our sakes do and suffer what he did . this is indeed an argument great enough to raise our admiration , to excite our devotion , to inflame our affections ; but how flat and low doth it appear , when it comes to no more than this , that there was a man , whom , after his sufferings , god raised from the dead and made him a god by office ? doth this carry any such argument in it for our esteem and love and devotion to him as the other doth upon the most serious consideration of it ? ( . ) which tends most to beget in us a greater hatred of sin. for that is so contrary to the way of our salvation by jesus christ , that what tends most to our hatred of it , must conduce most to our happiness ; and therefore be most worthy of all acceptation . it is agreed on all hands , that christ did suffer very much both in his mind and in his body . in his mind , when it is said , that he was troubled in spirit ; that he began to be sorrowfull and very heavy ; and soon after , my soul is exceeding sorrowfull , even unto death . s. luke saith , that he was in an agony ; wherein he not only prayed more earnestly , but his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling to the ground . what made this amazement , and dreadfull agony in the mind of the most innocent person in the world ? was it meerly the fear of the pains of death which he was to undergo ? that is impossible , considering the assurance which he had of so glorious a reward so soon following after ; when so many martyrs endured such exquisite torments for his sake without any such disturbance or consternation . but the apostles give us another account of it . s. peter , saith he , was to bear our sins in his own body on the tree ; that christ suffer'd for sins , the just for the unjust . s. paul , that god made him to be sin for us who knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him . hereby we understand how so innocent a person came to suffer ; he stood in our stead ; he was made sin for us ; and therefore was to be treated as a sinner ; and to suffer that on our account , which he could not deserve on his own . if he suffer'd on his own account , this were the way to fill our minds with perplexity concerning the justice of providence with respect to his dealings with the most innocent and holy persons in this world ; if he suffer'd on our account , then we have the benefit of his sufferings , and therein we see how displeasing to god sin is , when even his own son suffer'd so much by taking the guilt of our sins upon him . and what can tend more to the begetting in us a due hatred of sin , than to consider , what christ himself suffer'd on the account of it ? what can make us have more dreadfull thoughts of it , than that the great and mercifull god , when he designed to save sinners , yet would have his own son to become a propitiation for the sins of mankind ? and unless we allow this , we must put force upon the plainest expressions of scripture ; and make christ to suffer meerly to shew god's power over a most innocent person , and his will and pleasure to inflict the most severe punishment without any respect to guilt . and surely such a notion of god , cannot be worthy of all acceptation . ( . ) which tends most to strengthen our hope of salvation by christ jesus . if we believe that he suffer'd for our sins , then we have great reason to hope for the forgiveness of them ; although they have been many and great , if we sincerely repent ; because the most prevailing argument for despair will be removed ; which is taken from the iustice of god , and his declared hatred of sin and displeasure against sinners . if god be so much in earnest displeased with the sins of mankind , and his justice be concerned in the punishment of sinners , how can they ever hope to escape , unless there be a way for his displeasure to be removed , and his justice to be satisfied ? and this the scripture tells us is done by christ , who died that he might be a sacrifice of atonement to reconcile us to god by his death ; as s. paul expresly affirms . and by this means , we may have strong consolation from the hopes of forgiveness of our sins . whereas , if this be taken away , either men must believe that god was not in earnest displeased with the sins of mankind ; which must exceedingly lessen our esteem of the holiness and iustice of god ; or if he were so displeased , that he laid aside this displeasure , without any atonement or sacrifice of expiation . and so , as many as look on god's iustice and holiness as necessary and essential attributes of god , will be in danger of sinking into the depths of despair , as often as they reflect seriously on the guilt of their sins . but on the other side , if we believe that while we were enemies , we were reconciled to god by the death of his son ; then we may have peace with god through our lord jesus christ ; and have reason to believe that there will be no condemnation to them that are in christ jesus by a lively faith and sincere repentance ; then they may with comfort look up to god as a reconciled father , through jesus christ our mediator ; then they may with inward satisfaction look beyond the grave , and stedfastly hope for that salvation which christ purchased on earth and will at last bestow on all such as love and obey him . to which god of his infinite mercy bring us all through iesus christ. for , this is a faithfull saying and worthy of all acceptation , that he came into the world to save sinners . finis . lately printed for henry mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall , febr. . / . upon . pet. . verse . a sermon preached before the king and queen at white-hall , march the d . / . upon ecclesiastes . verse . christian magnanimity : a sermon preached in the cathedral church at worcester , at the time of the assizes , september . . upon tim. . verse . a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall , march the st . / . on luke . v. . all four by the right reverend father in god , edward lord bishop of worcester . the bishop of worcester's charge to the clergy of his diocese , in his primary visitation , begun at worcester , septemb. . . quarto . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e ver. . joh. . . ch. . v. . phil. . , . act. . . joh. . , . . . . . joh. . . v. . joh. . . v. . v. , . v. . matt. . . matt. . . v. . mark . . v. . matt. . . luk. . . joh. . . joh. . , , &c. rom. . . rom. . . col. . . heb. . , . tim. . . discourse of the word mystery , &c. p. . observations on dr. wallis his four letters , p. psal. . . revel . . . c. . v. . bifterfield . c. grell . p. . pet●v . de trinit . l. . c. . §. . de consol. l. . s. joh. . . socin . prael . c. . cajetan . in . q. . art . . s. joh. . . cor. . . socin . ad eutrop. p c. wick . c. . catech. racov. p. . cor. . . gal. . . smiglec . de divin . verb. incarn . nat. p. . nova monstra , &c. p. . joh. . . v. . joh. . . v. . rom. . . john . . ch . . v. . luk. . . joh. . . matt. . , . mark . , . luk. . pet. . . . . cor. . . rom. . . cor. . . heb. . . a rational account of the grounds of protestant religion being a vindication of the lord archbishop of canterbury's relation of a conference, &c., from the pretended answer by t.c. : wherein the true grounds of faith are cleared and the false discovered, the church of england vindicated from the imputation of schism, and the most important particular controversies between us and those of the church of rome throughly examined / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a rational account of the grounds of protestant religion being a vindication of the lord archbishop of canterbury's relation of a conference, &c., from the pretended answer by t.c. : wherein the true grounds of faith are cleared and the false discovered, the church of england vindicated from the imputation of schism, and the most important particular controversies between us and those of the church of rome throughly examined / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed by rob. white for henry mortlock ..., london : . an answer to thomas carwell's labyrinthus cantuariensis. conference is between laud and fisher. cf. bm. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng laud, william, - . -- relation of the conference between william laud, late lord archbishop of canterbury, and mr. fisher the jesuit. carwell, thomas, - . -- labyrinthus cantuariensis. church of england -- doctrines. catholic church -- controversial literature. protestantism -- apologetic works. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion e typographiâ prodeat opus istud cui titulus , a rational account of the grounds of protestant religion , being a vindication of the lord archbishop of canterbury's relation of a conference , &c. from the pretended answer by t. c. humfr. london . . novemb. . a rational account of the grounds of protestant religion : being a vindication of the lord archbishop of canterbury's relation of a conference , &c. from the pretended answer by t. c. wherein the true grounds of faith are cleared , and the false discovered ; the church of england vindicated from the imputation of schism ; and the most important particular controversies between us and those of the church of rome throughly examined . by edward stillingfleet b. d. london , printed by rob. white for henry mortlock at the sign of the phoenix in st. pauls church-yard near the little north-door . . to his most sacred majesty charles ii. by the grace of god king of great britain , france , and ireland , defender of the faith , &c. most gracious soveraign , since that great miracle of divine providence in your majesties most happy restauration , we have seen those who before triumphed over the church of england as dead , as much expressing their envy at her resurrection . neither could it otherwise be expected , but that so sudden a recovery of her former lustre , would open the mouths of her weak but contentious adversaries , who see her shine in a firmament so much above them . but it is a part of her present felicity , that they are ashamed of that insulting question , what is become of your church now ? and are driven back to their old impertinency , where was your church before luther ? they might as well alter the date of it , and ask where she was before your majesties restauration ? for as she only suffered an eclipse in the late confusions ; no more did she , though of a longer stay , in the times before the reformation . and it was her great honour , that she was not awakened out of it ( as of old they fancied ) by the beating of drums , or the rude clamours of the people ; but as she gradually regained her light , so it was with the influence of supream authority . which hath caused so close an union and combination of interests between them , that the church of england , and the royal family , have like hippocrates his twins both wept and rejoyc'd together . and nothing doth more argue the excellent constitution of our church , than that therein the purity of christian doctrine is joyned with the most hearty acknowledgment of your majesties power and supremacy . so that the loyalty of the members of it , can neither be suspected of private interest , or of depending on the pleasure of a forreign bishop , but is inlaid in the very foundations of our reformation . which stands on those two grand principles of religion and government ; the giving to god the things that are god's , and to caesar the things that are caesar's . and as long as these two remain unshaken , we need not fear the continuance and flourishing of the reformed church of england , and your majesties interest in the members of it . which it is hard to conceive those can have any zeal for , who are the busie factours among us for promoting so opposite an interess as that of the church of rome . for what a contradiction is it , to suppose it consistent with your majesties honour and interess , to rob your imperial crown of one of the richest jewels of it , to expose your royal scepter to the mercy of a forreign prelat , to have another supreme head acknowledged within your dominions , and thereby to cut off the dependence of a considerable part of the nation wholly from your self , and to exhaust the nation of an infinite mass of treasure meerly to support the grandeur of the see of rome ? they who can make men believe that these things tend to your majesties service , think they have gained thereby a considerable step to their religion , which is by baffling mens reason , and perswading them to believe contradictions . but if , notwithstanding the received principles of their church , any have continued faithful in their loyalty to your majesty , we have much more cause to attribute it to their love to their king and country , than to their religion . we deny not , but there may be such rare tempers which may conquer the malignity of poison , but it would be a dangerous inference from thence , that it ought not to be accounted hurtful to humane nature . if any such have been truly loyal , may they continue so , and their number increase : and since therein they so much come off from themselves , we hope they may yet come nearer to us , whose religion tends as much to the settling the only sure foundations of loyalty , as theirs doth to the weakning of them . and were this the only controversie between us , there need not many books be written to perswade men of the truth of it . but if these men may be believed , we can as little please god on the principles of our church , as they your majesty on the principles of theirs . a strange assertion ! and impossible to be entertain'd by any , but those who think there is no such way to please god , as to renounce the judgement of sense and reason . and then indeed we freely confess , there are none so likely to do it , as themselves . with whom men are equally bound to believe the greatest repugnancies to sense and reason , with the most fundamental verities of christian faith. as though no faith could carry men to heaven , but that which can , not only remove , but swallow mountains . yet these are the persons who pretend to make our faith infallible , while they undermine the foundations of it , as they advance charity by denying salvation to all but themselves , and promote true piety by their gross superstitions . by all which they have been guilty of debauching christianity in so high a measure , that it cannot but heartily grieve those who honour it as the most excellent religion in the world , to see its beauty so much clouded by the errours and superstitions of the roman church . that these are great as well as sad truths , is the design of the ensuing book to discover . which i humbly present to your majesties hands , both as it is a defence of that cause wherein your majesties interess is so highly concern'd , and of that book which your royal father of most glorious memory so highly honoured , not only by his own perusal and approbation , but by the commendation of it to his dearest children . on which account , i am more encouraged to hope for your majesties acceptance of this , because it appears under the shadow , as well as for the defence , of so great a name . and since god hath blessed your majesty with so happy and rare a mixture , of power , and sweetness of temper , may they be still imployed in the love and defence of our reformed church ; which is the hearty prayer of your majesties most loyal and obedient subject , e. stillingfleet . the preface to the reader . it is now about a twelvemonth , since there appeared to the world a book , under the title of dr. lawd's labyrinth ; but , with the usual sincerity of those persons , pretended to be printed some years before . it is not the business of this preface to enquire , why if printed then , it remained so long unpublished , but to acquaint the reader with the scope and design of that book , and of this which comes forth as a reply to it . there are three things mainly in dispute between us , and those of the church of rome , viz. whether they , or we , give the more satisfactory account of the grounds of faith ? whether their church , or ours , be guilty of the charge of schism ? and , whether their church be justly accused by us of introducing many errours and superstitions ? in the handling of these , all our present debate consists ; and therefore , for the greater advantage of the reader , i have distributed the whole into three distinct parts : which i thought more commodious , than carrying it on in one continued discourse . and , lest our adversaries should complain , that we still proceed in a destructive way , i have not only endeavoured to lay open the palpable weakness of their cause , but to give a rational account of our own doctrine in opposition to theirs . which i have especially done in the great controversie of the resolution of faith , as being the most difficult and important of any other . i hope the reader will have no cause to blame me for false or impertinent allegations of the fathers , since it hath been so much my business to discover the fraud of our adversaries in that particular : which i have chiefly done from the scope and design of those very books , out of which their testimonies are produced . in many of the particular differences , i have made use of several of their late writers against themselves ; both to let them see , how much popery begins to grow weary of it self ; and , how unjustly they condemn us for denying those things , which the moderate and rational men of their own side disown , and dispute against as well as we ; and chiefly to undeceive the world , as to their great pretence of unity among themselves . since their divisions are grown to so great a height both at home , and in foreign parts , that the dissenting parties mutually charge each other with heresie , and that about their great foundation of faith , viz. the popes infallibility ; the jansenists in france , and a growing party in england , charging the jesuits with heresie in asserting it , as they do them with the same for denying it . as to my self , i only declare , that i have with freedom and impartiality enquired into the reasons on both sides , and no interest hath kept me from letting that side of the ballance fall , where i saw the greater weight of reason . in which respect , i have been so far from dissembling the force of any of our adversaries arguments , that if i could add greater weight to them , i have done it ; being as unwilling to abuse my self as the world . and therefore i have not only consulted their greatest authours , especially the three famous cardinals , baronius , bellarmin , and perron ; but the chiefest of those , who , under the name of conciliators , have put the fairest varnish on the doctrine of that church . however , i have kept close to my adversary , and followed him through all his windings , from which i return with this satisfaction to my self , that i have vindicated his lordship and truth together . as to the style and way of writing i use , all that i have to say , is , that my design hath been to joyn clearness of expression , with evidence of reason . what success i have had in it , must be left to the readers judgement ; i only desire him to lay aside prejudice as much in judging , as i have done in writing ; otherwise i despair of his doing me right , and of my doing him good . for , though reason be tractable and ingenuous , yet prejudice and interest are invincible things . having done thus much by way of preface , i shall not detain thee longer , by a particular answer to the impertinencies of our authours preface , since there is nothing contained therein , but what is abundantly answered in a more proper place . and i cannot think it reasonable to abuse so much the readers appetite , as to give him a tedious preface to cloy his stomach . if any , after perusal of the whole , shall think fit to return an answer , if they do it fairly and rationally , they shall receive the same civility ; if with clamour and impertinency , i only let them know , i have not leisure enough to kill flyes , though they make a troublesome noise . if any service be done to god , or the church , by this present work , next to that divine assistance , through which i have done it , thou owest it to those great pillars of our church , by whose command and encouragement i undertook it . who the authour was of the book i answer , i have been the less solicitous to enquire , because i would not betray the weakness of my cause , by mixing personal matters in debates of so great importance . and , whether he be now living , or dead , i suppose our adversaries cannot think it at all material , unless they judge that their cause doth live and dye with him . the contents . part i. of the grounds of faith. chap. i. the occasion of the conference , and defence of the greek church . t. cs. title examined and retorted . the labyrinth found in his book and doctrine . the occasion of the conference about the churches infallibility . the rise of the dispute about the greek church , and the consequences from it . the charge of heresie against the greek church examined , and she found , not-guilty , by the concurrent testimony of fathers , general councils , and popes ▪ of the council of florence and the proceedings there ; that council neither general nor free. the distinction of ancient and modern greeks , disproved . the debate of the filioque being inserted into the creed . the time when and the right by which it was done , discussed . the rise of the schism between the eastern and western churches , mainly occasioned by the church of rome . page . chap. ii. of fundamentals in general . the popish tenet concerning fundamentals , a meer step to the roman greatness . the question about fundamentals stated . an enquiry into the nature of them . what are fundamentals , in order to particular persons ; and what to be owned as such , in order to ecclesiastical communion . the prudence and moderation of the church of england , in defining articles of faith. what judged fundamental by the catholick church . no new articles of faith can become necessary . the churches power in propounding matters of faith , examined . what is a sufficient proposition . of the athanasian creed , and its being owned by the church of england . in what sense the articles of it are necessary to salvation . of the distinction of the material and formal object of faith , as to fundamentals . his lordship's integrity , and t. c. his forgery , in the testimony of scotus . of heresie , and how far the church may declare matters of faith. the testimony of st. augustine vindicated . page . chap. iii. the absurdities of the romanists doctrine of fundamentals . the churches authority must be divine , if whatever she defines be fundamental . his lordship , and not the testimony of s. augustine , shamefully abused , three several wayes . bellarmin not mis-cited ; the pelagian heresie condemned by the general council at ephesus . the popes authority not implyed in that of councils . the gross absurdities of the distinction of the church teaching and representative , from the church taught and diffusive , in the question of fundamentals . the churches authority and testimony in matters of faith , distinguished . the testimony of vincentius lirinensis explained , and shewed to be directly contrary to the roman doctrine of fundamentals . stapleton and bellarmin , not reconciled by the vain endeavours used to that end . page . chap. iv. the protestant doctrine of fundamentals , vindicated . the unreasonableness of demanding a catalogue of fundamentals . the creed contains the fundamentals of christian communion . the belief of scripture supposed by it . the dispute concerning the sense of christs descent into hell , and mr. rogers his book , confessed by t. c. impertinent : with others of the same nature . t. c. his fraud , in citing his lordships words . of papists and protestants vnity . the moderation of the church of england , compared with that of rome . her grounds of faith justified . infant-baptism how far proved out of scripture alone . page . chap. v. the romanists way of resolving faith. the ill consequences of the resolution of faith by the churches infallibility . the grand absurdities of it , manifested by its great unreasonableness in many particulars . the certain foundations of faith unsettled by it , as is largely proved . the circle unavoidable by their new attempts . the impossibility of proving the church infallible by the way that moses , christ , and his apostles were proved to be so . of the motives of credibility , and how far they belong to the church . the difference between science and faith considered , and the new art of mens believing with their wills . the churches testimony must be , according to their principles , the formal object of faith. of their esteem of fathers , scripture , and councils . the rare distinctions concerning the churches infallibility discussed . how the church can be infallible by the assistance of the holy ghost , yet not divinely infallible , but in a manner and after a sort . t.c. applauded for his excellent faculty in contradicting himself . page . chap. vi. of the infallibility of tradition . of the unwritten word , and the necessary ingredients of it . the instances for it particularly examined and disproved . the fathers rule for examining traditions . no unwritten word the foundation of divine faith. in what sense faith may be said to be divine . of tradition being known by its own light , and the canon of the scripture . the ●estimony of the spirit , how far pertinent to this controversie . of the use of reason in the resolution of faith. c's . dialogue answered , with another between himself and a sceptick . a twofold resolution of faith into the doctrine , and into the books . several objections answered from the supposition made of a child brought up without sight of scripture . christ no ignoramus nor impostor , though the church be not infallible . c's . blasphemy in saying otherwise . the testimonies of irenaeus and s. augustin examined and retorted . of the nature of infallible certainty , as to the canon of scripture ; and whereon it is grounded . the testimonies produced by his lordship , vindicated . p. . chap. vii . the protestant way of resolving faith. several principles premised in order to it . the distinct questions set down , and their several resolutions given . the truth of matters of fact , the divinity of the doctrine , and of the books of scripture , distinctly resolved into their proper grounds . moral certainty a sufficient foundation for faith , and yet christian religion proved to be infallibly true . how apostolical tradition made by his lordship a foundation of faith. of the certainty we have of the copies of scripture , and the authority of them . s. augustine's testimony concerning church-authority largely discussed and vindicated . of the private spirit , and the necessity , of grace . his lordship's way of resolving faith vindicated . how far scripture may be said to be known by its own light. the several testimonies of bellarmine , brierly , and hooker , cleared . p. . chap. viii . the churches infallibility not proved from scripture . some general considerations from the design of proving the churches infallibility from scripture . no infallibility in the high-priest and his clergy under the law ; if there had been , no necessity there should be under the gospel . of s. basil's testimony concerning traditions . scripture less liable to corruptions than traditions . the great uncertainty of judging traditions , when apostolical , when not . the churches perpetuity being promised in scripture , proves not its infallibility . his lordship doth not falsifie c's . words , but t. c. doth his meaning . producing the jesuits words no traducing their order . c's . miserable . apology for them . the particular texts produced for the churches infallibility , examined . no such infallibility necessary in the apostles successours , as in themselves . the similitude of scripture and tradition to an ambassadour and his credentials , rightly stated p. . chap. ix . the sense of the fathers in this controversie . the judgement of antiquity enquired into , especially of the three first centuries ; and the reasons for it , the several testimonies of justin martyr , athenagoras , tatianus , irenaeus , clemens alexandrinus , and all the fathers who writ in vindication of christian religion , manifested to concurr fully with our way of resolving faith. c's . answers to vincentius lyrinensis , à gandavo , and the fathers produced by his lordship , pitifully weak . the particulars of his th . chapter examined . s. augustine's testimony vindicated . c's . nauseous repetitions sent as vagrants to their several homes . his lordships considerations found too heavy for c's . answers . in what sense the scripture may be called a praecognitum . what way the jews resolved their faith. this controversie , and the first part , concluded . p. part ii. of schism . chap. i. of the universal church . the question of schism explained . the nature of it enquired into . several general principles laid down for clearing the present controversie . three grounds of the charge of schism on protestant churches by our authour . the first , of the roman churches being the catholick church , entred upon . how far the roman church may be said to be a true church . the distinction of a church morally , and metaphysically true , justified . the grounds of the unity of the catholick church , as to doctrine and government . cardinal perron's distinction of the formal , causal , and participative catholick church examined . the true sense of the catholick church in antiquity manifested from s. cyprian , and several cases happening in his time : as , the schism of novatianus at rome ; the case of felicissimus and fortunatus . several other instances out of antiquity to the same purpose , by all which it is manifest , that the unity of the catholick church had no dependence on the church of rome . the several testimonies to the contrary , of s. ambrose , s. hierom , john patriarch of constantiople , s. augustine , optatus , &c. particularly examined ; and all found short of proving that the roman church is the catholick church . the several answers of his lordship to the testimonies of s. cyprian , s. hierom , s. greg. nazianzen , s. cyril , and ruffinus , about the infallibility of the church of rome , justified . from all which it appears , that the making the roman church to be the catholick , is a great novelty , and perfect jesuitism . p. . chap. ii. protestants no schismaticks . schism a culpable separation ; therefore the question of schism must be determined by enquiring into the causes of it . the plea from the church of rome's being once a right church , considered . no necessity of assigning the punctual time when errours crept into her . an account why the originals of errours seem obscure . by stapletons confession , the roman and catholick church were not the same . the falsi●y of that assertion manifested , that there could be no pure church since the apostles times , if the roman church were corrupt . no one particular church free from corruptions ; yet no separation from the catholick church . how far the catholick church may be said to erre . men may have distinct communion from any o●e particular church , yet not separate from the catholick church . the testimony of petrus de alliaco vindicated . bellarmin not mis cited . almain full to his lordships purpose . the romanists guilty of the present schism , and not protestants . in what sense there can be no just cause of schism ; and how far that concerns our case . protestants did not depart from the church of rome , but were thrust out of it . the vindication of the church of rome from schism , at last depends upon the two false principles , of her infallibility , and being the catholick church . the testimonies of s. bernard , and s austin not to the purpose . the catalogue of fundamentals , the churches not erring , &c. referr'd back to their proper places . p. . chap. iii. of keeping faith with hereticks . the occasion of this dispute . the reason why this doctrine is not commonly defended : yet all own such principles from whence it necessar●ly follows . the matter of fact as to the council of constance , and john hus , opened . of the nature of the safe conduct granted him by the emperour , that it was not a general one , salvâ justitiâ , but particular , jure speciali ; which is largely proved . the particulars concerning hierom of prague . of the safe-conduct granted by the council of trent . of the distinction of secular and ecclesiastical power , and that from thence it follows , that faith is not to be kept with hereticks . simancha , and several others fully assert this doctrine . of the invitation to the council of trent , and the good instructions there ; and of publick disputation . p. . chap. iv. the reform●tion of the church of england justified . the church of rome guilty of schism , by unjustly casting protestants out of communion . the communion of the cathol●ck and particular churches , distinguished . no separation of protestants from the catholick church . the devotions of the church of england and rome compared . particular churches power to reform themselves in case of general corruption , proved . the instance from the church of judah vindicated . the church of rome paralleld with the ten tribes . general corruptions make reformation the more necessary . whether those things we condemn as errours , were catholick tenets at the time of the reformation . the contrary shewed , and the d●fference of the church of rome before and since the reformation . when things may be said to be received as catholick doctrines . how far particular churches power to reform themselves extends . his lordships instances for the power of provincial councils in matters of reformation vindicated . the particular case of the church of england discussed . the proceedings in our reformation defended . the church of england a true church . the national synod . a lawful synod . the b●shops no intruders in queen elizabeth's time . the justice and mod●ration of the church of england in her reformation . the popes power here , a forcible and fraudulent usurpation . p. . chap. v. of the roman churches authority . the question concerning the church of rome's authority entred upon . how far our church , in reforming her self , condemns the church of rome . the pope's equality with other patriarchs , asserted . the arabick canons of the nicene council proved to be supposititious . the polity of the ancient church discovered from the sixth canon of the council of nice . the rights of primats and metropolitans settled by it . the suitableness of the ecclesiastical , to the civil government . that the bishop of rome had then a limitted jurisdiction within the suburbicary churches ; as primate of the roman diocese . of the cyprian priviledge ; that it was not peculiar , but common to all primats of dioceses . of the pope's primacy according to the canons , how far pertinent to our dispute . how far the pope's confirmation requisite to new elected patriarchs . of the synodical and communicatory letters . the testimonies of petrus de marcâ concerning the pope's power of confirming and deposing bishops . the instances brought for it , considered . the case of athanasius being restored by julius , truly stated . the proceedings of constantine in the case of the donatists cleared , and the evidence thence against the pope's supremacy . of the appeals of bishops to rome , how far allowed by the canons of the church . the great case of appeals between the roman and african bishops discussed . that the appeals of bishops were prohibited , as well as those of the inferiour clergy . c's . fraud in citing the epistle of the african bishops , for acknowledging appeals to rome . the contrary manifested from the same epistle to boniface , and the other to coelestine . the exemption of the ancient britannick church from any subjection to the see of rome , asserted . the case of wilfrids appeal answered . the primacy of england not derived from gregory's grant to augustine the monk. the ancient primacy of the britannick church not lost upon the saxon conversion . of the state of the african churches , after their denying appeals to rome . the rise of the pope's greatness under christian emperours . of the decree of the sardican synod , in case of appeals , whether ever received by the church : no evidence thence of the pope's supremacy . zosimus his forgery in sending the sardican canons instead of the nicene . the weakness of the pleas for it , manifested . p. . chap. vi. of the title of universal bishop . in what sense the title of vniversal bishop was taken in antiquity . a threefold acceptation of it ; as importing . a general care over the christian churches , which is attributed to other catholick bishops by antiquity , besides the bishop of rome , as is largely proved . . a peculiar dignity over the churches within the roman empire . this accounted then oecumenical , thence the bishops of the seat of the empire called oecumenical bishops : and sometimes of other patriarchal churches . . noting vniversal jurisdiction over the whole church as head of it , so never given in antiquity to the bishop of rome . the ground of the contest about this title between the bishops of rome and constantinople . of the proceedings of the council of chalcedon , about the popes supremacy . of the grammatical and metaphorical sense of this title . many arguments to prove it impossible that s. gregory should understand it in the grammatical sense . the great absurdities consequent upon it . s. gregory's reasons proved to hold against that sense of it , which is admitted in the church of rome . of irenaeus his opposition to victor . victor's excommunicating the asian bishops , argues no authority he had over them . what the more powerful principality in irenaeus is . ruffinus his interpretation of the . nicene canon vindicated . the suburbicary churches cannot be understood of all the churches in the roman empire . the pope no infallible successour of s. peter , nor so acknowledged to be by epiphanius . s. peter had no supremacy of power over the apostles . p. . chap. vii . the popes authority not proved from scripture , or reason . the insufficiency of the proofs from scripture , acknowledged by romanists themselves . the impertinency of luke . . to that purpose . no proofs offered for it , but the suspected testimonies of popes in their own cause . that no infallibility can thence come to the pope , as s. peters successour , confessed , and proved by vigorius , and mr. white . the weakness of the evasion of the popes erring as a private doctor , but not as pope , acknowledged by them . joh. . . proves nothing towards the popes supremacy . how far the popes authority is owned by the romanists over kings . c's . beggings of the question , and tedious repetitions , past over . the argument from the necessity of a living judge , considered . the government of the church not monarchical , but aristocratical . the inconveniencies of monarchical government in the church , manifested from reason . no evidence that christ intended to institute such government in his church , but much against it . the communicatory letters in the primitive church , argued an aristocracy . gersons testimony from his book de auferibilitate papae , explained and vindicated . s. hieroms testimony full against a monarchy in the church . the inconsistency of the popes monarchy with that of temporal princes . the supremacy of princes in ecclesiastical matters , asserted by the scripture and antiquity , as well as the church of england . p. . chap. viii . of the council of trent . the illegality of it manifested , first from the insufficiency of the rule it proceeded by , different from that of the first general councils , and from the popes presidency in it . the matter of right concerning it , discussed . in what cases superiours may be excepted against as barties . the pope justly excepted against as a party , and therefore ought not to be judge . the necessity of a reformation in the court of rome , acknowledged by roman catholicks . the matter of fact enquired into , as to the popes presidency in general councils . hosius did not preside in the nicene council as the popes legat. the pope had nothing to do in the second general council . two councils held at constantinople , within two years ; these strangely confounded . the mistake made evident . s. cyril not president in the third general council as the popes legat. no sufficient evidence of the popes presidency in following councils . the justness of the exception against the place , manifested ; and against the freedom of the council from the oath taken by the bishops to the pope . the form of that oath in the time of the council of trent . protestants not condemned by general councils . the greeks and others unjustly excluded as schismaticks . the exception from the small number of bishops cleared and vindicated . a general council in antiqui●y not so called from the popes general summons . in what sense a general council represents the whole church . the vast difference between the proceedings in the council of nice , and that at trent . the exception from the number of italian bishops , justified . how far the greek church and the patriarch hieremias may be said to condemn protestants ; with an account of the proceedings between them . p. . part . iii. of particular controversies . chap. i. of the infallibility of general councils . how far this tends to the ending controversies . two distinct questions concerning the infallibility and authority of general councils . the first entred upon , with the state of the question . that there can be no certainty of faith , that general councils are infallible ; nor , that the particular decrees of any of them are so : which are largely proved . pighius his arguments against the divine institution of general councils . the places of scripture considered , which are brought for the churches infallibility , and that these cannot prove that general councils are so : matth. . . act. . . particularly answered . the sense of the fathers in their high expressions of the decrees of councils . no consent of the church as to their infallibility . the place of st. austin about the amendment of former general councils by latter , at large vindicated . no other place in st. austin prove them infallible , but many to the contrary . general councils cannot be infallible in the conclusion , if not in the use of the means . no such infallibility without as immediate a revelation as the prophets and apostles had : taking infallibility not for an absolute unerring power , but such as comes by a promise of divine assistance preserving from errour . no obligation to internal assent , but from immediate divine authority . of the consistency of faith and reason in things propounded to be believed . the suitableness of the contrary doctrine to the romanists principles . p. . chap. ii. of the use and authority of general councils . the denying the infallibility of general councils takes not away their vse and authority . of the submission due to them by all particular persons . how far external obedience is required in case they erre . no violent opposition to he made against them . rare inconveniencies hinder not the effect of a just power . it cannot rationally be supposed , that such general councils as are here meant should often or dangerously erre . the true notion of a general council explained . the freedom requisite in the proceedings of it . the rule it must judge by great difference between external obedience , and internal assent to the decrees of councils . this latter unites men in errour , not the former . as great uncertainties supposing general councils infallible as not . not so great certainty requisite for submission as faith. whether the romanists doctrine of the infallibility of councils , or ours , tend more to the churches peace ? st. austin explained . the keyes according to him given to the church . no unremediable inconvenience supposing a general council erre . but errours in faith are so , supposing them infallible when they are not . the church hath power to reverse the decrees of general councils . the power of councils not by divine institution . the unreasonableness of making the infallibility of councils depend on the popes confirmation . no consent among the romanists about the subject of infallibility , whether in pope or councils . no evidence from scripture , reason , or antiquity , for the popes personal infallibility . p. . chap. iii. of the errours of pretended general councils . the erroneous doctrine of the church of rome in making the priests intention necessary to the essence of sacraments . that principle destructive to all certainty of faith , upon our authours grounds . the absurdity of asserting , that councils define themselves to be infallible . sacramental actions sufficiently distinguished from others without the priests intention . of the moral assurance of the priests intention , and the insufficiency of a meer virtual intention . the popes confirmation of councils supposeth personal infallibility . transubstantiation an errour decreed by pope and council . the repugnancy of it to the grounds of faith. the testimonies brought for it out of antiquity examin'd at large , and shewed to be far from proving transubstantiation . communion in one kind a violation of christs institution . the decree of the council of constance implyes a non obstante to it . the unalterable nature of christs institution cleared . the several evasions considered and answered . no publick communion in one kind for a thousand years after christ. the indispensableness of christs institution owned by the primitive church . of invocation of saints , and the rhetorical expressions of the fathers which gave occasion to it . no footsteps of the invocation of saints in the three first centuries ; nor precept or example in scripture , as our adversaries confess . evidences against invocation of saints from the christians answers to the heathens . the worship of spirits and heroes among the heathens , justifiable on the same grounds that invocation of saints is in the church of rome . commemoration of the saints without invocation , in s. austins time . invocation of saints as practised in the church of rome , a derogation to the merits of christ. of the worship of images and the near approach to pagan idolatry therein . no vse or veneration of images in the primitive church . the church of rome justly chargeable with the abuses committed in the worship of images . page . chap. iv. of the possibility of salvation in the roman church . protestants concessions ought not to be any ground to prefer the communion of the church of rome . how far those concessions extend . the uncharitableness of romanists , if they yield not the same to us . the weakness of the arguments to prove the roman church the safer way to salvation on protestant principles . the dangerous doctrines of romanists about the easiness of salvation , by the sacrament of pennance . the case parallel'd between the donatists and romanists , in denying salvation to all but themselves ; and the advantages equal from their adversaries concessions . the advantage of the protestants , if that be the safest way which both parties are agreed in , manifested and vindicated in several particulars . the principle it self at large shewed to be a meer contingent proposition , and such as may lead to heresie and infidelity . the case of the leaders in the roman church , and others , distinguished . the errours and superstitions of the roman church , make its communion very dangerous in order to salvation . page . chap. v. the safety of the protestant faith. the sufficiency of the protestant faith to salvation , manifested by disproving the cavils against it . c's tedious rep●titions passed over . the argument from possession at large consider'd . no prescription allowable , where the law hath antecedently determined the right . of the infallibility of oral tradition . that , contrary to the received doctrine of the roman church ; and in it self unreasonable . the grounds of it examined . the ridiculousness of the plea of bare possession , discovered . general answers returned to the remaining chapters , consisting wholly of things already discussed . the place of s. cyprian to cornelius particularly vindicated . the proof of succession of doctrine lyes on the romanists by their own principles . page . chap. vi. the sense of the fathers concerning purgatory . the advantage which comes to the church of rome , by the doctrine of purgatory , thence the boldness of our adversaries in contending for it . the sense of the roman church concerning purgatory , explained . the controversie between the greek and latin church concerning it . the difference in the church of rome about purgatory . some general considerations about the sense of the fathers , as to its being an article of faith. the doubtfulness and vncertainty of the fathers judgements in this particular , manifested by s. austin the first who seemed to assert a purgation before the day of judgement . prayer for the dead used in the ancient church , doth not inferr purgatory . the primate of armagh vindicated from our adversaries calumnies . the general intention of the church distinguished from the private opinions of particular persons . the prayers of the church respected the day of judgement . the testimonies of the fathers in behalf of purgatory , examined ; particularly of the pretended dionysius , tertullian , s. cyprian , origen , s. ambrose , s. hierom , s. basil , nazianzen , lactantius , hilary , gregory nyssen , &c. and not one of them asserts the purgatory of the church of rome . s. austin doth not contradict himself about it . the doctrine of purgatory no elder than gregory . and built on credulity and superstition . the churches infallibility made at last the foundation of the belief of purgatory . the falsity of that principle : and the whole concluded . page . errata sic corrige . page l for which r them p marg . for baron an . . r . p l for uniformally r uniformly p l for that r what. p l for sceptiscism r scepticism . p l for dissents r assents . p l between you and say insert to p l after men insert were . p l blot out not before a good . p l for montallo r montalto . p ● l for valentius r valentia . p l r infallibility . p l r assistance . p l blot out b●t before probabl● false p l penult . for it r christ. p l before any insert for . p l for of the r of this . p l after sixtine insert and. p l for it r them . p marg . l penult . r vet●stiores . p l r generality . p l blot out but before setting . p l r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p l blot out where . l blot out and p l r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p l r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 marg . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p l , r communication of peace , title of brotherhood , and common mark of hospitality p marg . l r mastrucam p l for from r of . p l r sardican . p l for contracts r contrasts . p l for interrupted r uninterrupted . p l for now r not . p l for reply r rely . l r ecclesiastical . p l r and in the first of her reign , of , &c. p l for protestants r patriarchs . p l for g●icenus r cyzicenus . p l r anulinus . p l before done blot out not . p l for context r contest . p l for satisfied r falsified . l r pelagius and gregory . p marg . l for ●essime r piissime . p l for most r not . p l r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p l r alexandria . l r elegantissimè . p l for him r them . p l r unless s. peter had p l after which insert is . p l r fundavit l for first r fifth . p l r conclude . p marg . r cusanus . p l for conveying r convening p l for used r abused . p l for your r their . p l blot out are . p l for an easie r any . p l for it r out . p l for he r it . p l r denyes . l before sh●ll insert there . l after is r no. p l r spirit . l for and r yet . p l for he r they . l place the comma after then . l after know insert not . p ● l for yet r that . p l for w●ll as r that . p marg . l ult r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p l for m●ke r made . l for co●pus r corporis p l r indispens●ble . p l r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p l r defensi●le . l r invocation . p l blot out or no ▪ p l for appropriation r approbation p l for it r is . part i. of the grounds of faith. chap. i. the occasion of the conference , and defence of the greek church . t. cs. title examined and retorted . the labyrinth found in his book and doctrine . the occasion of the conference about the churches infallibility . the rise of the dispute about the greek church , and the consequences from it . the charge of heresie against the greek church examined , and she found , not-guilty , by the concurrent testimony of fathers , general councils , and popes . of the council of florence and the proceedings there ; that council neither general nor free. the distinction of ancient and modern greeks disproved . the debate of the filioque being inserted into the creed . the time when and the right by which it was done , discussed . the rise of the schism between the eastern and western churches , mainly occasioned by the church of rome . that which is the common subtilty of male-factors , to derive , if possible , the imputation of that fault on the persons of their accusers , which they are most lyable to be charged with themselves , is the great artifice made use of by you in the title and designe of your book . for there being nothing which your party is more justly accused for , than involving and perplexing the grounds of christian faith under a pretext of infallibility in your church , you thought you could not better avoid the odium of it , then by a confident recrimination : and from hence it is that you call his lordships book a labyrinth , and pretend to discover his abstruse turnings , ambiguous windings , and intricate meanders , as you are pleased to stile them . but those who will take the pains to search your book for the discoveries made in it , will find themselves little satisfied but only in these , that no cause can be so bad , but interessed persons will plead for it ; and no writing so clear and exact , but a perplexed mind will imagine nothing but meanders in it . and if dark passages and intricate windings , if obscure sense and perplexed consequences , if uncertain wandrings and frequent self-contradictions may make a writing be call'd a labyrinth , i know no modern artist who comes so near the skill of the cretan artificer as your self . neither is this meerly your own fault ; but , the nature of the cause whose defence you have espoused , is such , as will not admit of being handled in any other manner . for you might assoon hope to perswade a traveller that his nearest and safest way was through such a labyrinth as that of creet , as convince us that the best and surest resolution of our faith is into your churches infallibility . and while you give out , that all other grounds of christian faith are uncertain , and yet are put to such miserable shifts in defence of your own , instead of establishing the faith of christians , you expose christianity it self to the scorn and contempt of atheists ; who need nothing more to confirm them in their infidelity , then such a senseless and unreasonable way of proceeding as you make use of , for laying the foundations of christian faith. your great principle being , that no faith can be divine , but what is infallible ; and none infallible , but what is built on a divine and infallible testimony ; and that this testimony is only that of the present catholick church ; and that church none but yours : and yet after all this you dare not say the testimony of your church is divine , but only in a sort and after a manner . you pretend that our faith is vain and uncertain , because built only on moral certainty and rational evidence ; and yet you have no other proof for your churches infallibility , but the motives of credibility . you offer to prove the churches infallibility independently on scripture ; and yet challenge no other infallibility but what comes by the promise and assistance of the holy ghost , which depends wholly on the truth of the scripture . you seek to disparage scripture on purpose to advance your churches authority , and yet bring your greatest evidences of the churches authority from it . by which authority of the church you often tell us that christian religion can only be proved to be infallibly true , when if but one errour be found in your church , her infallible testimony is gone , and what becomes then of christian religion ? and all this is managed with a peculiar regard to the interest of your church , as the only catholick church , which you can never attempt to prove but upon supposition of the truth of christianity , the belief of which yet you say depends upon your churches being the true and catholick church . these , and many other such as these , will be found the rare and coherent principles of your faith and doctrine , which i have here only given this taste of , that the reader may see with what honour to your self and advantage to your cause , you have bestowed the title of labyrinth on his lordships book . but yet you might be pardonable , if rather through the weakness of your cause than your ill management of it , you had brought us into these amazing labyrinths ; if you had left us any thing whereby we might hope to be safely directed in our passage through them : whereas you not only endeavour to put men out of the true way , but use your greatest industry to keep them from a possibility of returning into it : by not only suggesting false principles to them , but decrying the use of those things which should discover their falsity . for although the judgement of sense were that which the apostles did appeal to ( that which we have seen and heard — declare we unto you ) ; although that were the greatest and surest evidence to them of the resurrection of christ ; although christ himself condemned them for their unbelief and hardness of heart , because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen ; yet according to your principles men must have a care of relying on the judgement of sense in matters of faith , lest perchance they should not believe that great affront to humane nature , the doctrine of transubstantiation . neither are men only deprived of the judgement of sense , but of the concurrent use of scripture and reason ; for these are pretended to be uncertain , fallible , nay , dangerous without the churches infallibility : so that the short of your grounds of establishing faith , is , if we will find our way , we must renounce the judgement of sense and reason , submit our selves and scripture to an infallible guide , and then you tell us we cannot miss of our way ; when it is impossible for us to know our guide , without the use of those things which we are bid to renounce . these things laid together make us admire more at your confidence than invention in making the current title of your book to be dr. lawd's labyrinth , in which it is hard to say , whether your immodesty or blindness be the greater . but as though you were the only heroes for asserting the christian cause , and all others but more subtle betrayers of it , you begin your book with a most ingenious comparison of the learned labours of those of your church to the stately temple of solomon ; and the artificial but pestiferous works of all heretical authors ( i. e. all but your selves ) to labyrinths and intricate dungeons . in which only your discretion is to be commended , in placing this at the entrance of your book ; for whosoever looks but further into it , and compares it with that you pretend to answer , will not condemn the choice of your similitudes , but your forgetfulness in misapplying them . but it matters not what titles you give to the books of our authors , unless you were better able to confute them : and if no other book of any late protestant writer hath been any more discovered to be of this intangling nature , than this of his lordship ( whom you call our grand author ) is by you , you may very justly say of them as you do in the next words , they are very liable to the same reproach : in which we commend your ingenuity , that when you had so lately disparaged our authors and writings , you so suddenly wipe off those aspersions again by giving them the deserved name of reproaches . when you say his lordships book is most artificially composed , we have reason to believe so fair a testimony from a professed adversary ; but when notwithstanding this you call it a labyrinth , we can interpret it only as a fair plea for your not being able to answer it . and who can blame you for calling that a labyrinth in which you have so miserably lost your self ? but , in pity to you , and justice to the cause i have undertaken , i shall endeavour with all kindness and fairness to reduce you out of your strange entanglements into the plain and easie paths of truth ; which i doubt not to effect by your own clew of scripture and tradition , by which you may soon discover what a labyrinth you were in your self , when you had thought to have made directive marks ( as you call them ) for others to avoid it . to omit therefore any further preface , i shall wait upon you to particulars ; the first of which is , the occasion of the conference , which ( you say ) was for the satisfaction of an honourable lady , who having heard it granted in a former conference , that there must be a continual visible company ever since christ teaching unchanged doctrine , in all points necessary to salvation ; and finding ( it seems ) in her own reason that such a company or church must not be fallible in its teaching , was in quest of a continual , visible , infallible church , as not thinking it fit for unlearned persons to judge of particular doctrinals , but to depend on the judgement of the true church . the question then was not concerning a continual and visible church , which you acknowledge was granted , but concerning such a church as must be infallible in all she teaches , ( and , if she be infallible , according to your doctrine of fundamentals , whatever she teaches is necessary to salvation ) which that lady thought necessary to be first determined , because , saith mr. fisher , it was not for her , or any other unlearned persons , to take upon them to judge of particulars , without depending upon the judgement of the true church ; which seeming to allow of some use of our own judgement , supposing the churches authority , you pervert into these words , not thinking it fit to judge , &c. but to depend , &c. but let them be as they will , unless you gave greater reason for them , it is not material which way they pass . for his lordship had returned a sufficient answer to that pretence ( which you are content to take no notice of ) in saying that it is very fit the people should look to the judgement of the church before they be too busie with particulars . but yet neither scripture , nor any good authority denyes them some moderate use of their own understanding and judgement , especially in things familiar and evident , which even ordinary capacities may as easily understand as read . and therefore some particulars a christian may judge without depending . to which you , having nothing to say , run post to the business of infallibility : for when it was said , the lady desired to rely on an infallible church , therein , his lordship says , neither the jesuite nor the lady her self spake very advisedly : for an infallible church denotes a particular church , in that it is set in opposition to some other particular church that is not infallible . here now you begin your discoveries : for you tell us , he makes this his first crook in his projected labyrinth ; which is apparent to any man that has eyes , even without the help of a perspective . as seldome as perspectives are used to discern the turns of labyrinths , nothing is so apparent , as that your eyes or your judgement were not very good when you used this expression . for i pray , what crook or turn is there in that , when a lady demanded an infallible church to her guide , to say , that by that question she supposeth some particular church as distinct from , and opposite to others , to be infallible . no , say you , she sought not any one particular church infallible , in opposition to another church not infallible ; but some church , such as might without danger of errour direct her in all doctrinal points of faith. rarely well distinguish'd ! not any particular church , but some particular church . for if she enquired after some church , which , without danger of errour , might direct her in all doctrinal points of faith , doth she not thereby imply , that some other church might bring her into danger of errour under pretence of directing her in matters of faith ? and if this be some particular fallible church , the other must be some particular infallible church ? and is it possible to conceive some church that may erre in directing , and some other that may not erre , without some particular church being taken in opposition to some other church ? but you would fain perswade us that the force of his lordships argument rests wholly upon the importance of the particle a or an , which cannot be applyed but to particulars , which you very learnedly disprove : whereas the main strength of what his lordship says , depends upon the nature of the question , and the manner of proposing it . for the lady enquiring after such a church whose judgement she might relye on as to the matters in dispute in the christian world , must mean such a church whose communion must be known as distinct from other churches which are not infallible ; for otherwise she might be deceived still . and if you give a pertinent answer to her question , you must shew her some such church as an infallible guide , which can be no other in this case , but some particular church considered as distinct from others . for a general answer concerning the infallibility of the catholick church , without shewing how the infallible judgement of that church may be known , can by no means reach the case in hand : which doth not meerly respect an infallibility in the subject , but such an infallibility as may be a sufficient guide in all doctrinal points of faith. when you say therefore , she meant no other then the vniversal visible church of christ , you must tell us how the vniversal visible church can become such an infallible guide in the matters in controversie between those churches , which yet are members of that vniversal visible church . for the notion of the vniversal church not being in its nature confined to any one of these parties , but all of them concurring to the making of it up , can no more be an infallible guide in the matters in difference , then the common notion of animal can direct us in judging what beings are sensitive and what rational . therefore though you would fain deceive the world under a pretence of the catholick church , yet nothing can be more evident , then that in the question what church must be a guide in doctrinal points of faith , it must be understood of some church as distinct from other churches which ought not to be relyed on as infallible guides . but the subtilty of this is , that when you challenge infallibility to your church , we should not apprehend her as a particular church , but as the true catholick church , which is a thing so every way absurd and unreasonable , that you had need use the greatest artifice's to disguise it , which yet can deceive none but such as are resolved to be deceived by them . for any one who had his eyes in his head might discern without a perspective , as you speak , that churches of several and distinct communions from each other were placed in competition for infallibility : for mr. fisher's next words are . the question was , which was that church ? do you think he means , which was that vniversal visible church ? certainly not : for the nature of the question supposes several churches : now i think you do not believe , there are several vniversal visible churches . and it immediately follows , a friend of the ladies would needs defend that not only the roman , but the greek church was right ; to which mr. fisher answers , that the greek church had erred in matter of doctrine . can any thing be more plain then that this question doth relate to churches considered severally and as under distinct communions and denominations . and therefore notwithstanding your pittiful pretences to the contrary , this question can be no otherwise understood then , as his lordship said , of some particular infallible church , in opposition to some other particular church which is not infallible . and if you judge this an affected mistake as you call it , your discerning faculty will be as lyable to question as your churches infallibility . that you might seem to avoid the better the force of his lordships following discourse against bellarmine about the infallibility of the particular church of rome ; you first tell us , that it is sufficient for a catholick to believe that there is an infallibility in the church , without further obligation to examine whether the particular church of rome be infallible or no. which is an egregious piece of sophistry . for , put case a man believes the catholick church of all ages infallible , but not of any one particular age since the apostles times ; suppose a man believe the catholick church of the present age infallible , but not of any one particular communion but as it takes in those common truths wherein they are all agreed ; will you say this is sufficient for a catholick to believe without obligation to examine further ? if you will , speak it out , and , i dare say , you shall not have much thanks at rome when you have done it . but the mysterie is , if a man believes the roman church only , to be the catholick church , it is no matter whether he enquires whether the catholick church be only at rome or no. it is not the place , but the communion of the roman church which is now enquired after in the question of infallibility ; although i cannot see but those places out of the fathers which are produced to prove the roman church infallible , will hold for the continuance of that infallibility in that particular place of rome . for st. cyprian saith expresly of the romans , that they are such to whom perfidia ( what ever be meant by it ) cannot have access . st. jerome saith , the roman faith admits no deceits into it . gregory nazianzene , that rome retains the ancient faith. not that i think any of these places do in the least import the infallibility of the roman church ( as will be shewed in its proper place ) but that , on supposition that infallibility were implyed in them , they would hold for the infallibility of the particular roman church . and therefore bellarmin understood what he did when he produced these places to that purpose , especially the apostolical see remaining at rome , as he supposeth himself in this part of the question which he there discusseth . either therefore you must assert that which his lordship learnedly proves , viz. that no such thing as infallibility is intended by any of these citations , or else that it must extend to the particular roman church . and when you deny this to be an article of faith among catholicks , that the particular roman church ( the apostolical see remaining there ) is infallible , prove at your leasure from any of these citations that the church within the roman communion is infallible and not the particular roman church . and from what hath been hitherto said , i am so far from suspecting his lordships candor , as you do , that i much rather suspect your judgement , and that you are not much used to attend to the consequences of things , or else you would not have deserted bellarmin in defence of so necessary and pertinent a point as the infallibility of the particular church of rome . secondly , you answer to his lordships discourse concerning bellarmin's authorities , that you cannot hold your self obliged to take notice of his pretended solutions , till you find them brought to evacuate the infallibility of the catholick or the roman church in its full latitude , as catholicks ever mean it , save when they say the particular church of rome . but taking it in as full a latitude as you please , i doubt not but to make it appear that the roman church is the roman church still , that is , a particular church as distinct from the communion of others , and therefore neither catholick nor infallible : which i must refer to the place where you insist upon it , which i shall do without the imitation of your vanity , in telling your reader as far as eighthly and lastly what fine exploits you intend to do there . but usually those who brag most of their valour before-hand shew least in the combat , and thus it will be found with you . i shall let you therefore enjoy your self in the pleasant thoughts of your noble intendments , till we come to the tryal of them ; and so come to the present controversie concerning the greek church . the defence of the greek church . it is none of the least of those arts which you make use of for the perplexing the christian faith , to put men upon enquiring after an infallible church , when yet you have no way to discern which is so much as a true church , but by examining the doctrine of it . so that of necessity the rule of faith and doctrine must be certainly known , before ever any one can with safety depend upon the judgement of any church . for having already proved that there can be no other meaning of the question concerning the church , as here stated , but with relation to some particular church to whose communion the party enquiring might joyn , and whose judgement might be relyed on ; we see it presently follows in the debate , which was that church ; and it seems , as is said already , a friend of the ladies undertook to defend that the greek church was right . to which mr. fisher answers , that the greek church had plainly changed , and taught false in a point of doctrine concerning the holy ghost : and after repeats it , that it had erred . before i come to examine how you make good the charge you draw up against the poor greek church in making it erre fundamentally , it is worth our while to consider upon what account this dispute comes in . the inquiry was concerning the true church on whose judgement one might safely depend in religion . it seems , two were propounded to consideration , the greek and the roman ; the greek was rejected because it had erred : from whence it follows , that the dispute concerning the truth of doctrine must necessarily precede that of the church : for by mr. fishers confession and your own , a church which hath erred cannot be relyed on ; therefore men must be satisfied whether a church hath erred or no , before they can judge whether she may be relyed on or no. which being granted , all the whole fabrick of your book falls to the ground ; for then . men must be infallibly certain of the grounds of faith antecedently to the testimony of the church ; for if they be to judge of a church by the doctrine , they must in order to such a judgement be certain what that doctrine is which they must judge of the church by . . no church can be known to be infallible , unless it appear to be so by that doctrine which they are to examine the truth of the church by , and therefore no church can be known to be infallible by the motives of credibility . . no church ought to be relyed on as infallible , which may be found guilty of any errour by comparing it with the doctrine which we are to try it by . therefore you must first prove your church not to have erred in any particular ; for if she hath , it is impossible she should be infallible : and not think to prove that she hath not erred because she cannot , that being the thing in question , and must by your dealing with the greek church be judged by particulars . . there must be a certain rule of faith supposed to have sufficient authority to decide controversies without any dependence upon the church . for , the matter to be judged is the church ; and if the scripture may and must decide that , why may it not as well all the rest ? . every mans reason proceeding according to this rule of faith must be left his judge in matters of religion . and whatever inconveniencies you can imagine to attend upon this they immediately and necessarily follow from your proceeding with the greek church by excluding her because she hath erred , which while we are in pursuit of a church can be determined by nothing but every ones particular reason . . then fundamentals do not depend upon the churches declaration . for you assert the greek church to erre fundamentally , and that this may be made appear to one who is seeking after a church . suppose then i inquire , as the lady did , after a church whose judgement i must absolutely depend on , and some mention the greek and others the roman church : you tell me , it cannot be the greek , for that hath erred fundamentally . i inquire how you know , supposing her to erre , that it is a fundamental errour ? will you answer me , because the true church hath declared it to be a fundamental errour ? but that was it i was seeking for which that church is , which may declare what errours are fundamental and what not ? if you tell me it is yours , i may soon tell you , you seem to have a greater kindness for your church then your self , and venture to speak any thing for the sake of it . thus we see how finely you have betrayed your whole cause in your first onset , by so rude an attempt upon the greek church . and truly it was much your concernment , to load her as much as you can : for though she now wants one of the great marks of your church ( which yet you know not how long your church may enjoy ) viz. outward splendor and bravery , yet you cannot deny , but that church was planted by the apostles , enjoyed a continual succession from them , flourished with a number of the fathers exceeding that of yours , had more of the councils of greatest credit in it , and , which is a commendation still to it , it retains more purity under its persecutions then your church with all its external splendour . but she hath erred concerning the holy ghost , and therefore hath lost it . a severe censure which his lordship rebukes mr. fisher for citing king james so boldly for : but two wayes it may be taken , he adds . . to lose such assistance as preserves from all errour . . or else from all fundamental errour , this therefore , his lordship truely saith , is an errour of the first sort and not of the latter . passing by therefore his lordships expressions of his modesty , which if an errour is one you are like to be secured from ; and his cautious expressions concerning the greek church which he highly shewed his wisdome in , we come to consider how you prove the greek church guilty of fundamental errour . you say , you pass by his trifling , and make way for truth . i wonder not to see you reflect on his lordship for his modesty , considering how little of it you shew towards him ; let us then make way too , but it is to see you and truth combat together . it is to be considered , say you , that now for many hundred years , the whole latine church hath decreed and believed it to be flat heresie in the greeks ; and they decreed the contrary to be an heresie in the latin church , and both together condemned the opinion of the grecians as heretical in a general council ( in florentino ) how then bears it any shew of probability , what some few of yesterday ( forced to it by an impossibility of otherwise avoiding the strength of catholick arguments against them ) affirm , that the matter of this controversie was so small and inconsiderable , that it is not sufficient to produce an heresie on either side ? is not this to make all the churches of christendome for many hundred years quite blind , and themselves only clear and sharp-sighted ? which swelling presumption what spirit it argues , and whence it proceeds , all those who have learn'd from st. augustin that pride is the mother of heresie , will easily collect . i grant this speech of st. augustin to be true ; only let it be added , that pride is likewise the mother of making heresies , as will appear in this present controversie ; and whether we , who vindicate the greek church from heresie , or you who would find the bill against her ( to keep her from any rivalship with your church ) be more guilty of pride will be soon discovered ; but sure you believe us not only to be men of yesterday , but to know nothing who should sentence the greek church for heresie upon such feeble pretences as these are . i know not what presumption that can be to say , men may be too forward on both sides in calling each other hereticks , and it may be not so much their blindness , as pride and passion which may make them do it . but if they will condemn that for heresie , which is not so made appear to be upon any evidence from scripture and reason , they were not so blind in defining it , as we should be in following their judgement without further examination . but this was for many hundred years . the more to blame they , for continuing in so rash judgements so long , if it appear so . but it is well still you tell us , that as the latin church condemned the greek for heresie , the greek condemned the latin for it too . and so by your own rule the one was as blind as the other . but the latin church had the right to determine heresie , and the greek had not . this is the question , which church must be relyed on for judgement ? and if they mutually condemn each other , we must have a higher rule to judge of both by . but still , is it not an argument , that it is a heresie of one side or the other , because each party condemns the other of heresie ? just as much , as if two men fall out and call each other knaves , it must be granted , that if both be not , yet at least the one of them is so . heresie being grown the scolding word in religion ; and no two parties can differ , but they seek to fasten this reproach on each other . if one should bring greater evidence than the other of his knavery , he ought to be more accounted so . no otherwise can it be here ; if sufficient proof be brought of heresie on the one side and not the other , that party may be looked on as more guilty : but still remembring , that the more confident affirmation , the pretence to greater honesty and power , be not taken for the only evidences of it : as i doubt it will appear in our present case . but still suppose , that of two men who have so reproached each other , the one of them being fallen into distress and poverty , and not hoping for relief but from the other person , and he denying it , unless he be content by joynt-consent to be proclaimed knave , which he through his necessity yeilding to , but assoon as that is over declaring on what account they agreed ; must this man be more pittied for his necessity , or condemned for his knavery ? just such i shall make it appear , that which you call condemning the grecians as heretical in a general council at florence , to have been and no otherwise . but i come to a closer examination of this subject to see with what justice you charge the greek church , either with heresie or schism ; for both these you accuse it of in this chapter . two things were the most in dispute between the greek and latin churches , the one was the doctrine of the procession of the holy ghost from father and son , the other was concerning the addition of the filióque to the creed . and although the greeks in the debates at ferrara would not meddle with the doctrine , before the latins could clear themselves concerning the addition , which they said was the main cause of the contest between them ; yet i am content to follow your method and handle the other first . your discourse concerning the first consists of two parts , proofs and answers ; proofs of their heresie , and answers to his lordships arguments against it . the proofs are double , the one from authority , the other from theological reason . through every of these particulars i shall follow you , and from them i doubt not to evince , that the greeks are not guilty of the faults you lay to their charge . we have already seen what your proofs from authority are ; their condemning one another for hereticks , and the greeks being condemned by a general council . if i can therefore prove that the greeks opinion was not accounted an heresie before the council of florence , and that it did not become a heresie by the council of florence , i shall sufficiently discover the weakness of your arguments from authority . . that it was not accounted a heresie before the council of florence ; i mean not , that there were no hot-brain'd persons in all the time of the difference , who did not brand the greek church with heresie , but that it was never accounted a heresie , by any of those whom your selves account the only competent judges of heresie ; and those are either the fathers , or popes , or councils : which i prove in their order . . that it was not accounted heresie by the fathers ; which will be proved by these two things . . because it is very doubtful whether many of the fathers did believe the procession of the holy ghost from the son or no. . because those who did believe it , did not condemn those of heresie who did not . . that it is very doubtful whether many of them did believe the procession of the holy ghost from the son or no ; at least , so far as to make it an article of faith ; for . there are clear testimonies that they make it unnecessary to be believed . . the testimonies which seem to say , that they did believe it , do not necessarily imply that they did . . that there are clear testimonies , that they did not account it a thing necessary to be believed : both because they in terms asserted the nature of this procession to be incomprehensible , and withall , did as clearly affirm the belief of that , which doth not imply this procession to be sufficient for salvation . . they in terms assert , that the mystery of this procession is incomprehensible . and can you , or any reasonable man , imagine they should make the manner of that procession to be an article of faith , which they acknowledge to be absolutely beyond our apprehension ? i grant , something supposed by them to be incomprehensible is made an article of faith : but then it is not that which is supposed as incomprehensible under that notion , which is made so ; but the thing it self which may be incomprehensible ; yet being clearly revealed in scripture , ought to be believed , notwithstanding that incomprehensibility of it : as the mystery of the trinity it self , the eternal generation of the son , the procession of the spirit from the father , &c. but then i say , these things are such , as are either declared by them to be expresly revealed in scripture , or necessarily consequent from something supposed to be so . as for instance , supposing the trinity in vnity to be something divinely revealed , whatever is necessarily consequent from that , and is necessary to be believed in order to that , though it be incomprehensible , must be believed ; as , supposing these two things clear from scripture , that there is but one true god , and that there are three persons , who have the name , properties , and attributes of god given to them , though our reason be too short to fathom the manner how these can have three distinct subsistences , and yet but one essence , because our reason ( i. e. all those conceptions which we have formed in our mind from the observation of things ) doth tell us , that those things which agree or disagree in a third , agree or disagree one with another ; and from thence it would inferr , that , if the father be god , and the son god , there could be no difference between father and son ; yet this being meerly as to the connexion of two propositions , both of which are supposed distinctly revealed in scripture ; we are bound in this case to believe such a connexion , because both parts are equally revealed by an infallible testimony , though the mode of that connexion be to us incomprehensible : but it is not so , where neither clear revelation , nor a necessary consequent from something which is divinely revealed doth inforce our belief of it . as in our present case : since we suppose it revealed in scripture , that father , son , and holy ghost are god , whatever is necessary to the belief of that , though incomprehensible , we ought to believe it : but if there be something without which i may believe the deity of the father , son and spirit , and this not clearly asserted in scripture , but is a thing in it self incomprehensible , that cannot be made a necessary article of faith : thus that the spirit doth proceed from the father seems necessary on both accounts , as consequent upon the belief of the trinity in vnity , and as clearly expressed in scripture : but that the spirit should proceed from father and son as from one principle , that they should communicate in an action proper to their subsistences , and yet be distinguished from each other in those subsistences , and agree only in essence , ( and if the spirit proceeds not from their subsistences , but from the essence , the spirit must proceed from it self , because that is common to all three ; ) these things being in themselves incomprehensible , and not necessary to the belief of the divinity either of son or holy ghost , nor pretended to be clearly revealed in scripture , cannot be said to make a necessary article of faith , the denyal of which must suppose heresie . and therefore that which is the only objection in this case , is removed , viz. that this procession of the spirit from the father is incomprehensible , and yet supposed to be an article of faith ; for that i have already shewed is expresly revealed in scripture , that the spirit doth proceed from the father . but neither is the procession from the son necessary to the belief of the deity of the son ; for if it were , it would be as necessary to the deity of the holy ghost that the son should be begotten by the spirit ; neither doth it follow from any place of scripture , for all those places which are usually brought are very capable of such interpretations , as do not at all infer it ; from hence then it follows , that those who upon these terms acknowledge this procession incomprehensible , do therein imply that the belief of it is no article necessary to salvation , and therefore the denyal no heresie . now for this we have the clearest testimonies of such who were the greatest and most zealous assertors of the doctrine of the trinity . athanasius saith expresly , that it is sufficient to know , that the spirit is no creature , nor to be reckoned among gods works ; for nothing of another nature is mingled with the trinity , but it is undivided , and like it self : these things are sufficient for believers . but , saith he , when we come hither , the cherubims vail their faces ; but he that inquires and searches into more than these , neglects him that hath said , be not wise overmuch , &c. if it be sufficient to know , that the spirit is no creature , it cannot be necessary to believe , that the spirit proceeds from the son : for they who do not believe that , do firmly believe the deity of it . and if whatever goes beyond that , goes beyond the bounds which god hath set us , then certainly he never dreamt that men should be condemned for heresie as to some things which cannot be supposed to be within them . to the same purpose speaks st. basil in several places , acknowledging the procession of the holy ghost to be a thing inexplicable , and when the hereticks enquired of him what kind of thing that procession was , when the spirit was neither 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , nor yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , all the answer he gives them , is , if there be such multitudes of things in the world which we are ignorant of , what shame is it to confess our ignorance here ? and if it be here our duty to confess our ignorance , it is far from it to be magisterial and definitive , that unless men acknowledge every punctilio , they are guilty of heresie and fundamental errors . st. gregory nazianzene mentioning that question , what this procession is ? returns this answer , tell me first what it is for the father to be unbegotten , and i will explain the generation of the son , and procession of the holy ghost ; that we may both therein shew our folly , who pry into these divine mysteries and do not know the things which are before our feet . and elsewhere , if we enquire into these things , what shall we leave to them , whom the scripture tells us alone know and are known of each other . st. cyrill requires of men , to believe his being , and subsistence , and dominion over all ; but for other things not to suffer the mind to go beyond the bounds allotted to humane nature . these spoke like wise men , and the true fathers of the church , who would have men content themselves with believing meerly what was necessary in these deep and incomprehensible mysteries , and not to make articles of faith of such things which are not made necessary , either by deduction of reason , or clear divine revelation . although therefore i should grant , that some or all of these , did themselves believe this procession from the son , yet hereby it appears they were far from imposing it upon others , or making it a heresie in any not to believe it . they saw well these were not things to be narrowly searched into , but as the philosopher said of some kind of hellebore , taken in the lump it is medicinal , but beaten into powder is dangerous , is true of these more abstruse mysteries of religion ; for whosoever will endeavour to satisfie himself concerning them from the strange niceties and subtilties of the schools , may return with greater doubts then he went to them . for not to go beyond our present subject , whosoever would examine the way they take to make the procession to be immediate from the father and the son , so as to be from one principle , to shew how the spirit comes from both by the same numerical spiration ; but most of all , when they come to make distinctions between the generation of the son , and the procession of the holy ghost , ( of which no less then nine are recounted and rejected by petavius out of the fathers and schoolmen , and the last which he rests in , which is the common one of the schools , viz. that the one is per modum intellectûs , and the other per modum amoris , as unsatisfactory as any , there being so vast a disproportion between the most immediate acts of our souls and these emanations ) will see much greater reason to commend the wisdome of those fathers , who sought to repress mens curiosity as to these things , and as much to condemn you , who are so apt to charge whole churches with heresie , if they come not up to every thing which you shall pronounce to be an article of faith. . it is plain from the fathers , that they made the belief of that to be sufficient for salvation , which doth not imply this procession from the son ; which is , that the holy ghost doth proceed from the father : if therefore they often mention the procession from the father , without taking notice of the procession from the son , and when they do so , assert the sufficiency of the belief of that for salvation ; there cannot be the least ground to imagine that they looked on the procession from the son as a necessary article of faith. we see before , athanasius made no more necessary , then the belief of the divinity of the holy ghost ; and in the same discourse , where he speaks expresly what the orthodox opinion was of the holy ghost , he says no more , but , if they thought well of the word , they would likewise of the spirit , which proceeds from the father , and is proper to the son , and is given by him to the disciples , and all that believe on him . in which words there is nothing but what the greeks to this day do most freely and heartily acknowledge , viz. that the holy ghost proceeds from the father , and is the spirit of the son , being given by him to all that believe . many other testimonies are produced out of him and the rest of the greek fathers , by the patriarch hieremias in his answer to the wirtenberg divines , by marcus ephesius in his disputes in the council of florence , by gregorius palamas in his answer to beccus the latinizing patriarch of constantinople in the time of michael palaeologus , and other modern defendants of the greek church . but although i do not think , that the places produced by them are sufficient for their purpose , viz. that those fathers believed the procession from the father , exclusivè , to be an article of faith ; yet whosoever will take the pains to compare those testimonies with the others produced on the other side by those who writ in defence of the filioque , either latins , as hugo eterianus , anselme , &c. or latinizing greeks , such as nicephorus blemmydes , beccus , emanuel calecas and others , will find it most for the honour of the fathers , and most consonant to truth , to assert that they did not look upon this as any necessary article of faith , and therefore took liberty to express themselves differently about it as they saw occasion . for such different testimonies are produced not only of different fathers , but of several places of the same , that it will be a hard matter but upon this ground to reconcile them to each other and themselves : and that which abundantly confirms it , is , that when they sate most solemnly in council to determine the matters of faith about the trinity , they were so far from inserting this , when they had just occasion to do it , that they only mention the proceeding from the father , and determine this to be a perfect symbol of christian faith which contained no more . in the first nicene creed , and that which is properly so called , ( for that which now goes under that name is the constantinopolitan creed ) there was nothing at all determined concerning the procession of the holy ghost ; and yet athanasius saith expresly of the faith there delivered by the fathers according to the scriptures , that it was of it self sufficient for the turning men from all impiety , and the establishment of all christian piety . and afterwards saith , that though certain men contended much for some additions to be made to it , yet the sardican synod would by no means consent to it , because the nicene creed was not defective , but sufficient for piety , and therefore forbid the making any new creed , lest the former should be accounted defective . we see then by the testimony of athanasius and the sardican synod , ( which when it serves your turn , as in the case of appeals you extoll so much , and in defence of zozimus his forgery of the nicene canons you would have confounded with the nicene ) that the nicene creed without any thing at all concerning the procession of the holy ghost was looked on as sufficient to salvation , and therefore certainly they did not then judge this article of the procession to be so necessary as you would have it be . but suppose we yeild nazianzene , and the fathers of the constantinopolitan council , that though this creed was not defective as to the son , yet there ought to be somewhat added further concerning the holy ghost , upon the rising of macedonius : yet even here we shall find when they purposely added to the article of the holy ghost , they added only this touching the procession 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which proceedeth from the father . and thus the copies of the constantinopolitan creed , either in the councils or elsewhere have it , where they mention the procession at all ; and when marcus ephesius in the florentine council read this creed , the latins took no exceptions at all to it , but it passed then as it doth still for the nicene creed ( although it much differs from the original nicene ) , and therefore it is a great mistake of them who imagine the article of filioque was found in some copies of this creed , for this the latins never pretended in the florentine council , ( but did indeed as to the creed of the second council of nice , but were therein much suspected of forgery by the greeks ) which might be the ground of that mistake . but that which i insist on is , if this article of the procession of the holy ghost from the son had been by these fathers judged necessary , when had there been a fitter time to insert it , then now , when purposely they added the procession to the former creed ? and yet we see they did not judge it at all necessary to be inserted . it may be you will say , it was , because the controversie was not then started concerning the filioque ; but that can signifie nothing here , because we have already shewed that the fathers themselves spake differently concerning it , and looked upon it as a thing not necessary to be known ; but the things which were upon the rising of hereticks inserted into the creed , were such as by the fathers were judged and believed as necessary before ever those hereticks arose ; as in the case here of macedonius , for i hope you will not say it was no heresie to deny the divinity of the holy ghost till it was determined in this oecumenical council ? for the fathers never thought that they made articles of faith in councils , but only declared themselves and what they believed against the hereticks which did arise in the church : and therefore that answer of the filioque not being then controverted comes to nothing . from hence we come to the third oecumenical council , to see if that adds any thing concerning this procession ; instead of which it highly confirms what was established before ; for the fathers of that council discerning at last the great inconveniency of making such additions to the creed , because the nestorians had got the art of it too , and made a new creed of their own , ( which by charisius was brought to the council and there read ) upon which the ephesine fathers make an irrevocable decree against all additions being made hereafter to the creed . for after they had caused the nicene , or rather the constantinopolitan creed to be publickly read ( in which yet the article of procession was left out , as appears by that copy which marcus ephesius produced at the council of ferrara , as it is likewise in the copies of the ephesine council ) upon which they pass this definitive sentence ; that it should not be lawful hereafter for any one to produce , write , or compose any other creed , besides that which was agreed on and defined by the holy fathers , who were met together at nice by the holy spirit . concerning the meaning of this decree , we shall fully enquire when we come to the addition of the filioque . that which i take notice of it now for , is , not only the further ratification of what was in the creed before , and that what was therein contained was as much as was judged necessary , but an express decree made against all after-additions ; which doth , as fully as a general council could do , declare that nothing else was necessary to be believed , but what was already inserted in the creed : or else , to what end did they prohibit any further additions ? to the like purpose , the fourth general council of chalcedon determins , that by no means they would suffer that faith to be moved which was already defined . i might proceed to the fifth and sixth councils , but these are sufficient . let me now put some few questions to you , are general councils infallible , or no ? yes , say you , if confirmed by the pope . were not these four first councils confirmed ? yes , it is evident they were . were they then infallible in all their decrees or no , especially concerning matters of faith ? if they were , were they not infallible in this determination , that it should not be lawful to add to the creed any thing else but what was in before ? were they infallible in declaring the received creed to be full and sufficient ? if they were so , how comes any article to become necessary , which was not then in the creed ? if you say , the pope and another general council have power infallibly to contradict these , and to say that somewhat else is necessary to be inserted into the creed , and to be believed in order to salvation ; i must content my self with having brought you to the humble confession , that both parts of a contradiction may be infallibly determined . thus we see that the fathers , whether single or joyned , in such councils which are of the greatest authority in the christian world , have been so far from believing or determining this article of the procession of the holy ghost to be necessary , ( which must be , if the denyal of it be a fundamental error ) that they have plainly enough expressed and determined the contrary . . the next thing we come to , is , that those testimonies which are produced out of the fathers , are so far from asserting the necessity of this article , that the most of them do not evidently prove that they believed it . for these two answers the greeks return to them . . that they do not assert the procession of the spirit from the son , but the consubstantiality of the spirit with the son. . that those which speak of a procession do not mean it of an eternal procession , but a temporal , which is the same with the spirits mission . . that they do not assert the eternal procession of the spirit from the son , but the consubstantiality of the spirit with the son. and therefore no more can be inferred from them , but only the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which the greeks constantly acknowledge . this they make probable by two things : . that , when the fathers dispute not with those who denyed the consubstantiality of son and spirit , they use not the particle ex , but only say that the spirit is the spirit of the son. so cyril expresly , when theodoret had denyed the procession from the son , he gives no other answer , but this , the holy spirit doth truly proceed from god and the father , according to our saviours words , but is not of another nature from the son. we see he contents himself with the acknowledgement that the spirit is of the same nature with the son : to the same purpose is another testimony of his produced by the patriarch hieremias ; speaking of the spirit whereby the apostles spake , he saies , which proceeded in an ineffable manner from the father , but is not different from the son in regard of his essence . several other testimonies are there produced by him , and elsewhere by others which need not be here recited . . that when they use the particle ex , it is against those who denyed the consubstantiality both of the son and spirit ; and therefore gregorius palamas lay's down this rule , that , as often as the praepositions , ex and per , have the same force in divinity ; they do not denote any division or difference in the trinity , but only their conjunction and inseparable union , and consent of their wills . for which , he cites the famous epistle of maximus to marinus which was made the foundation of the vnion at the council of florence , who therein saith , that when the latins said in their synodical epistle , sent to constantinople , that the spirit did proceed ex filio , they meant no more than to shew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the perfect and inseparable vnion of the divine essence . so when s. basil saith , that the father did create the world , per filium ; he adds , that notes no more than 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the conjunction of their wills. and by this means the greeks interpret all those passages of the fathers , which seem most express for the spirit 's proceeding ex filio . so marcus ephesius tells the latins in the florentine council , that when we say , man comes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , from the essence of a man , therein is not implyed , that the essence of man is the productive cause of man , but only it notes the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that communion of essence which is in men ; so , when the greek fathers speak of the spirit 's proceeding ex filio , that doth not imply that the son is the principle of spiration , but that there is a communion of essence between the son and the spirit . so , when athanasius disputing against the arrians ( saith the patriarch hieremias ) saith , that the spirit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the son , is given to all ; and that the father 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by the son , in the spirit , doth create , work , and give all things ; you must consider , that athanasius was then disputing against the arrians , who made both son and spirit to be creatures : that therefore he might shew that the spirit was of the same substance with the father and the son ; he therefore useth that preposition ex , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 very opportunely and conveniently . therefore , saith he , it is to be observed , that he never useth this but in opposition to the arrians , and such who denyed the divinity of the holy ghost ? to which purpose it is well observed by spalatensis , that when the fathers of the constantinopolitan council did insert into their creed the article of the spirit 's procession from the father ; they did it not with a purpose to define any thing concerning the procession as an article of faith , but that they might from those words of s. john inferr the divinity of the holy ghost , because it proceeds from the father : and withall , it is further observable , that in the creed , which charisius delivered into , and was accepted by , the council of ephesus , all that he sayes as to the holy ghost , is , and in the spirit of truth , the paraclete who is consubstantial with the father and the son. by which , that which spalatensis saith is much confirmed ; for this symbol of charisius was accepted by the council as agreeable to the nicene creed . thus we see , how probable this answer of the greeks is , that the intention of the fathers in those expressions is only to assert the consubstantiality of the spirit with the father and the son , because when they used them it was in their disputes with them who denyed it . and therefore petavius spends his pains to very little purpose , when going about to take off this answer of the greeks , he only shews that those expressions in themselves cannot be confined meerly to the signification of the consubstantiality of the persons , whereas the main force of this answer ly's in the intention and scope of the persons who used them , and the adversaries they disputed against , and not in the importance of the articles themselves . . the second answer of the greeks , is , that most of those places which speak of the procession of the spirit from the son , are not to be understood of the eternal procession , but of the temporal , which is the same with the spirits mission . this , as the rest of the greeks , so the patriarchs hieremias and cyril especially insist upon ; the first in his last answer to the divines of wirtenberg . for when they in their reply to his second answer , had produced several testimonies of athanasius , cyril , epiphanius , basil , and nazianzen , in behalf of the spirit 's procession from the son ; he wonders at them , that leaving the plain and clear places both of scriptures and fathers , which do ( as he saith ) so openly proclaim the spirit 's procession from the father only , they should hope for relief from other obscure places , which are capable of a different interpretation . as from the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which only relates to the spirit 's manifestation , and is quite different from the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so cannot imply his eternal procession . therefore for the clearing the controversie , and giving account of the mistakes in it , he begins with the signification of the spirit , which when it is applyed to the divine spirit , is capable of different significations being taken either for the several gifts of the spirit , or for the person of the spirit ; and so , though the word procession be taken in a peculiar manner for the eternal procession of the spirit , yet it is not only some times attributed to the bestowing the forementioned gifts , but likewise to the eternal generation of the son ; and therefore whenever they meet with the word procession attributed to the spirit with a respect to the son , they must not presently infer the eternal procession , but the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there signifies no more than 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. that the spirit doth come through , is sent , and given by the son , which the fathers often mention , the better thereby to assert 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the identity of nature and essence , which is in the spirit with the father and son. this he doth therein very largely explain , and endeavour to make it out , that this is the most proper interpretation both of scripture and fathers , when they seem most clearly to speak of the procession of the spirit from the son , the same likewise the patriarch cyril insists upon , who acknowledgeth these several words to be attributed to the spirit in reference to the son 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and several others in the writings of the fathers , all which he acknowledgeth to be true , but he denyes that any of them do import a hypostatical procession of the spirit from the son , but that they all refer to the temporal mission and manifestation of the spirit through christ , under the gospel . whether this answer will reach to all the places produced out of the fathers , is not here my business to enquire , only that which is pertinent to my purpose may be sufficiently inferred from hence , that the fathers certainly were not definitive in this controversie , when their expressest sentences seem capable of quite a different meaning to wise and learned men , who , one would think , if the belief of this procession had been a tradition of their church , or fully expressed in the writings of the fathers of the greek church , could not be so ignorant or wilful as either not to see this to have been their meaning , or supposing they had seen it to persist in so obstinate a belief of the contrary . i can therefore with advantage return your words back again to you . it is to be considered , that for many hundred years the whole greek church never believed this to be an article of faith ; nay the fathers were so far from it , that both single and in general councils they did plainly express the contrary ; how then bears it any shew of probability , what some few of yesterday ( forced to it by an impossibility of otherwise defending the power and infallibility of the roman church ) affirm , that the matter of this controversie is so great and considerable , that it is sufficient to produce an heresie on either side ? is not this to make fathers , and general councils , and consequently all christendom for many hundred years , quite blind , and themselves only clear and sharp-sighted ? which swelling presumption , what spirit it argues , and whence it proceeds , all those who have learnt from reason , if not from s. augustine , that pride is the mother of making heresies in unnecessary articles of faith , will easily collect . do not you see now , how unadvisedly those words came from you , which with so small variation in the manner of expression , and much greater truth in the matter of it , is restored upon your self ? but i go on still , if possible , to make you sensible , how much you have wronged the greek church in this charge of a fundamental errour in her , for denying this procession of the spirit from the son. which shall be from hence that although there were some who did as plainly deny this as ever the modern greeks did or do , yet they were far from being condemned for heresie in so doing . for which we must consider , that although the fathers , as we have already seen , did speak ambiguously in this matter , yet the first who appears openly and stoutly to have denyed it , was theodoret ; which , being the rise of the controversie , must be more carefully enquired into . it appears then , that a general council being summoned by the emperour theodosius to meet at ephesus concerning the opinions of nectorius which were vehemently opposed , by cyril of alexandria , and several aegyptian and asian bishops , who being there convened , proceed to the deposition of nestorius and anathematizing his doctrine , before johannes antiochenus , and several other bishops who favoured nestorius , were come to ephesus . when these therefore came and found what had been done by the other bishops , they , being seconded by candidianus there and the court-party at constantinople , assemble apart by themselves , and proceed on the other side to a deposition and excommunication of cyril and memnon , who were the leaders of all the rest ; and these make an anti-synod to the other , which consisted of persons of several interests and perswasions , some pelagians , some nestorians , and others , more as friends to nestorius than his opinions , as being his ancient familiars and acquaintance , did joyn with them to prevent his deposition ; among which , the chief were johannes antiochenus , and theodoret. but , before the council , cyril had published his anathema's against the opinions of nestorius : to these therefore , not only the oriental bishops gave an answer , but john the patriarch of antioch particularly appoints theodoret to refute them . the ninth anathema of cyril was against nestorius , and all others who said , that christ used the holy ghost as a distinct power from himself , for the working of miracles , and that did not acknowledge him to be the proper spirit of christ. theodoret grants the first part , wherein he shews he was no nestorian , but quarrels with the latter part ; for saith he , if by that he means that the spirit is of the same nature with the son , and that it proceeds from the father , we acknowledge it together with him — but if by that he understands as though the spirit had his subsistence from or by the son , we reject it as blasphemous and impious . was ever any thing in this kind spoken with greater heat and confidence than this was here by theodoret ? and if this had been looked on as heretical at that time , can we possibly imagine that so zealous an opposer of all heresies , and especially of the nestorians , as s. cyril of alexandria was , should so coolly and patiently pass this by as he doth ? for all the answer he gives , is only that which was before cited out of him ; that he acknowledgeth the spirit doth proceed from the father , but yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it is not of another nature from the son ; but did not theodoret expresly assert that , as well as cyril ? is it then possible that any one who hath his wits about him , should imagine , that if that doctrine of theodoret had been accounted heretical , it being expressed in so vehement a manner as it is , it should have no other answer from cyril , but only approving that which theodoret confesseth , viz. the consubstantiality of the spirit with the son. all the answer which petavius and others give , is so weak and trifling , that one may easily see how much they were put to it to find out any : sometimes it was because cyril was intent upon his business , and therefore passed it by ; as though he were so weak a man as to let his adversary broach heresie and say nothing to it , because it was not pertinent to the present cause . but if it were not , it is an argument the second answer is false , viz. that theodoret was herein a nestorian ; for if he were so , it could not be besides the business , but was a main part of it . moreover , if this were a piece of nestorianism , it is very strange the fathers of that council , when they purposely collected the opinions of nestorius out of his own writings , should never make any mention at all of this , no not when they produce his opinion concerning the spirit of god. why was it not then condemned and anathematized as one of his heresies ? why did not the oriental bishops , when they subscribed to the deposition of nestorius , and the election of maximianus at constantinople , and sent a confession of their faith to cyril at alexandria by paulus emesenus , mention this among the rest , of their agreement with the orthodox bishops ? yet in that extant both in cyril's works , and in the third part of the council at ephesus , there is not the least intimation of it . and therefore the learned jesuit sirmondus in the life of theodoret prefixed by him to the first tome of his works which he set forth , vindicates theodoret from all suspition of nestorianism , and imputes all the troubles which he fell into on that account to the violence of dioscorus the successor of cyril at alexandria , who being a great patron of the eutychians thought to revenge himself on theodoret by blasting his reputation as a nestorian . there is not then any shew of probability that this opinion in theodoret was condemned as a piece of nestorianism , which certainly the whole greek church could not have been ignorant of , from that time to this . but though that piece of theodoret against anathema's were condemned in succeeding councils , yet that might be for the defence of other things , which they judged bordered too near on nestorianism , or because they would not have any monument remain of that discord between the oriental bishops , and the ephesine council ; which theodosius doth so much and so heartily lament in his excellent epistle to johannes antiochenus about a reconciliation between him and cyril , after the banishment of nestorius , and the choice of maximianus . thus we see one who in a divided and busie time ventured upon the absolute denyal of the procession of the holy ghost from the son not as a bare errour , but as impious and blasphemous , yet was far from being condemned for heretical himself for saying so , by those fathers , who were the most zealous defenders of the true apostolical faith. and if these things considered together , do not make it appear that the fathers did not make the denyal of the procession of the holy ghost from the son to be a heresie , i know not what can be made plain from them . but i know , whatever the fathers say , you are of cornelius mussus his mind , who heartily professed , that he preferred the judgement of one pope , before a thousand augustines and hieroms ; but what if the popes should prove of the same mind with the fathers , how then can this be accounted an heresie ? and that they were exactly of the same mind , might be made appear by the several epistles of vigilius and agatho in confirmation of the faith established in the four first general councils , in which it was determined , that all necessaries were already in the creed , and that there needed no further additions to it , both which are produced and insisted on by the greeks in the fifth session at ferrara . but i pass by them , and come to more particular testimonies of popes , and that either in councils , or upon a reference to them from councils . the first time we read of this controversie in the western churches was about a. d. . in the time of constantinus copronymus , upon which in the time of pepin king of france , there was a synod held at gentilly near paris for determining a controversie between the greeks and latins about the trinity , as appears by the several testimonies of ado and rhegino in their chronicles , produced by pithaeus , petavius , and others : but little more is left of that convention , besides the bare mention of it ; but it seems the ashes were only raked over these coals then , which about two and fourty years after , a.d. . broke out into a greater flame ; for , as appears by the testimonies of the same ado , and adelmus or ademarus , a synod was held at aquisgrane , about this very question , whether the spirit did proceed from the son as well as the father ; which question , they say , was started by one john a monk of hierusalem , which monk pithaeus supposeth to be johannes damascenus , who after theodoret most expresly denyed the procession from the son ; but whether it was he or any other , it seems from that council called by charls the great , there were several legats ( called apocrisiarij ) dispatched to rome to know the judgment of the present pope leo . concerning this controversie ; the legats were bernarius , jesse , and adalhardus , the two former the bishops of worms and amiens , the latter the abbot of corbey . but petavius herein betrayes either his fraud or inadvertency , that he will by no means admit that these came to the pope to know his judgement concerning the procession it self , but only concerning the addition of the filioque to the creed , which now began to be used in the gallican churches with that addition . but although i grant , that the main of their business was concerning the addition of filioque , by the same token that leo condemned it , as will appear afterwards ; yet that brought on the discourse concerning the doctrine it self of the procession from the son. for in the acts of smaragdus which were sent to charls the great , giving an account of this controversie , which are published both by baronius , and sirmondus ; it appears that when they urge the pope for his consent to the addition of filioque , they make use of this argument , that it was a matter of faith , and therefore none should be ignorant of it ; upon which they ask the pope this question ; whether if any one doth not know or doth not believe this article , he could be saved ? to which the pope returns this wise and cautious answer . whosoever by the subtilty of his wit can reach to the knowledge of it , and knowing it , will not believe it , he cannot be saved . for there are many things , of which this is one , which being the deeper mysteries of faith , to the knowledge of which many can attain , but many others cannot , being hindred either through want of age , or capacity ; and therefore , as we said before , he that can and will not , shall not be saved . i pray , sir , do me the favour to let me know your judgement , whether this pope were infallible or no ? or , will you acknowledge that he was quite beside the cushion , that is , not in cathedrâ when he spake it ? what ? not then , when solemn legats were dispatched from a council purposely to know his judgement in a matter of controversie , which the church was divided about ? if so , the pope shall never be in cathedrâ but when you will have him ; or if he were there , you will surely say , he did not act very apostolically , when he spake these words . for , can any thing be more plain , then that the pope determins this article of the procession from the son , to be no necessary article of faith : but acknowledgeth it to be one of the deeper mysteries of religion which none were obliged to believe , but such as could reach to the knowledge of ; which either want of age in some , capacity in others , and invincible prejudice in many more , might keep them from the knowledge of ? thus it appears by the pope's judgement , the denyal of this could be no heresie then , because he declares it , not to be necessary to be believed by all . what now must we think of this pope , if we apply your words to him . were all other succeeding ages blind , and this pope only clear and sharp-sighted ? which judgement of his must be called nothing short of swelling presumption ; and if you please st. austin shall be quoted for it too , but it must be in some other place , besides that where he sayes , that pride is the mother of heresie . do you think we can do other then hugely applaud our selves , in seeing you so furiously lay about you , when we know , your first blows fall on the fathers , and your second cut off one leg at least of your infallible chair . can we have better security against you then the judgement of one of your own popes ? may we not well be accounted blind , when for our sakes infallibility it self must be so too ? if you tell us that after - popes declared otherwise : i have but one request to make to you , viz. to make it appear , that when two popes shall determine both parts of a contradiction to be true , they both are infallible in doing so . but if we proceed a little further , it may be we shall find the judgement of another pope agreeing with this . for which we must consider that a. d. , ignatius the patriarch of constantinople being imprisoned by the emperour michael , and photius being placed in his room , in a council held by photius a. d. , ignatius was condemned , upon which he being likewise condemned by pope nicolaus at rome , he doth as much for him at constantinople . so that those grudges which had been before more closely carried between the greeks and latins , did now openly discover themselves . but among several other things which photius charged the latin church with , the chiefest and that which he insists on with the greatest vehemency is , that they did attempt to corrupt and adulterate the holy and sacred symbol of faith , which had obtained an unalterable force by the decrees of synods and councils , with false senses and new additions , by an unmeasurable confidence . o their diabolical machinations ! for by a strange innovation , they make the holy ghost proceed not only from the father , but the son too . this we find in his encyclical epistle , published by him on the account of the difference between the latin and the greek church , in which he largely disputes against the doctrine of the procession of the spirit from the son , and , as we see , charges the latins with fraud , presumption , and a desire of innovation , in the inserting that article into the creed . not long after , this pope nicolaus having advised with the gallican bishops what to do in this business , dyes ; to whom adrian succeeds as bitter against photius as his predecessor , and had more advantage against him then the other had . for , at constantinople the emperour michael being slain by basilius whom he had adopted to a partnership in the empire the year before , he presently banisheth photius , restoreth ignatius , calleth a council a. d. , in which photius is anathematized ; and , for the greater execration of him , they dipt their pens wherewith they subscribed , in the sacred chalice . this the latins call the eighth oecumenical synod . notwithstanding all which , ignatius being dead , photius is restored by basilius macedo , a. d. . legats are dispatched to pope john . ( as in courtesie to you we call him ) who succeeded adrian , that photius might be restored to the communion of the church and his patriarchal dignity ; which is presently done . the year following , a general council is held at constantinople , in which the popes legats are present , and this the greeks only admit for the eighth oecumenical . in which all that was done against photius is abrogated , the constantinopolitan creed without the addition of filioque is solemnly read , and it is decreed against the latins , the popes legats consenting , that nothing should be added to the creed . but lest you should think the popes legats were practised upon by some arts of photius ( for some of his enemies among other reproaches , did not stick to say , he learnt magick from the famous santarabenus ) . and , that it was done without the popes free consent : we have his own testimony afterwards in approbation of it . for pithaeus , an ingenuous as well as very learned man , confesseth , that the letters of this pope are still extant among the latins , by which it appears that he condemned all the synods held against photius , whether at rome or constantinople ; and the patriarch hieremias ( whose testimony in other cases you make much of ) saith expresly , not only that the pope consented to this synod , by the cardinal peter , and paulus , and eugenius who were there his legats ; but that in an epistle he writ to photius , he hath these words . i declare again to your grace , concerning that article , by which such scandals have been in the churches of christ. assure your self , that we not only speak this , but that we really judge , those who first durst out of their presumption do this , to be transgressors of the sacred oracles , changers of the doctrine of our lord christ , and the holy fathers , and we place them in the society of judas . what article was this , i pray , which the pope is so zealous against ? even no other then that which you account all blind who do not esteem the denyal of it heresie . it seems then we have one more added to the number of heretical popes ; for , photius himself could not express more vehemency against this article then the pope doth , and that when by his legats in a council ( therefore infallible , according to you , because confirmed by the pope ) he had declared himself utterly against the addition of this article to the creed . and instead of accounting them hereticks who denyed it , you see how much worse then hereticks he accounted them who first added it . so that i wonder , you do not rather account the belief of that article heresie , than the denyal of it . i know well enough , how your party rail here to purpose against photius ; but what is all that to the business ? let photius be what he will , were not the popes legats present at the council ? did not they confirm the decrees of it ? did not the pope afterwards ratifie it ? so that if ever council were infallible according to your principles , this must be ; choose therefore , either to relinquish the pope's and councils infallibility , or else acknowledge that men at one time may be infallibly guilty of violating scriptures , fathers , councils for asserting that doctrine , which they may be infallibly guilty of heresie for not asserting at another . i know very well , that marinus who succeeded john . at rome , condemned his predecessors acts and photius together , ( for he was before imployed both by nicolaus and adrian in the excommunicating and condemning photius ) but what this proves i understand not , any further , then that still one pope may infallibly contradict another , or that a pope without a council shall be more infallible then with one , or lastly ( which is the grand arcanum imperii ) those popes and those decrees which are for the present interest of the church of rome must be owned as infallible ; but for the rest , the best art must be used to blast them that may be . and for this you want not your many tricks and devices to accuse authors of forgery , cry out on them for hereticks , rail out of measure when you have nothing else to say ; or if after all this , testimonies stand of force against you , then nothing is left , but excogitato commento detorquere in alium sensum , to find out some trick to wrest them to another sense , as the authors of the belgick index expurgatorius professed in the case of bertram . but for all men who think it not lawful to say any thing in a bad cause , this may certainly be sufficient to shew , that if fathers and councils may be relyed on , if popes and councils be infallible , that was not accounted an heresie by them , which you condemn for such in the greek church . having thus discovered , that this opinion you condemn for heresie in the greek church , was otherwise esteemed both by fathers , oecumenical councils , and popes ; i come to that which you seem to rely on for making it heretical , viz. that the greeks and latins both together condemned it for heretical in the general council at florence . although it might be worth our while to inquire how far any general council can either make or declare that to be a necessary article of faith , which was determined to be otherwise by former general councils . but omitting that at present which we may have a fitter occasion to discuss in the question of fundamentals , and the infallibility of general councils ; i therefore come to examine the matter of fact in the florentine council , concerning the determination of this opinion there as heretical . wherein if we consider the time in which , and the occasion upon which this council was call'd , if we consider the way of the managery of it , the arts whereby the greeks were drawn to this consent , the manner of proposing the decrees of it , or the acceptance which it found in the greek church , upon none of these respects we shall have cause to look upon it as a free and general council , determining that opinion as heretical , which you say was so determined here . in all which we must profess how much we are obliged to that faithful and impartial account of all the proceedings relating to this council , written by sylvester sguropulus one present at the most secret negotiations of it , transcribed out of the ms in the king of france his library , by claudius sarravius , and first published for the general good of the world by our learned dean of wells . it appears then , that which gave the first rise to the thoughts of union between the greek and latin churches , was the miserable condition which the greek empire was now reduced to , by the incursions of the turks and saracens . for it seems for thirty years , ( before that an embassadour was sent to rome from manuel palaeologus to negotiate the business of the union ) from the time of the patriarch nilus and pope vrban , there had been no entercourse at all between the popes and patriarchs , but now upon this address made to them by the greeks , the popes caress them with all imaginable kindness , feed them high with promises , engage their utmost to promote this union , ( well knowing with what advantage to themselves it might be managed in this critical juncture of their affairs ) . for now amurath . . having subdued peloponnesus , had advanced almost to the walls of constantinople , and therefore when the pope sent one to the emperour and patriarch to appoint a day for the council , they told him they could not then have leisure to think of councils ; and if they had , by reason of the fury of the wars the bishops could not be assembled together to make a full council . but it seems the state of affairs grew worse still with them , and the dead-palsy of manuel pelaeologus was but an embleme of a worse in the state , the empire being brought daily into greater dangers . which put johannes palaeologus upon further thoughts , how any help or relief might be had from the west in this extremity . but they might easily understand the terms of that vnion from the speech of the cardinals to the emperours legats , that the roman church was the mother , and the eastern only the daughter , and therefore it was but fit that the daughter should submit to the mother ; that for their parts , they would not leave the decision of this controversie to multitudes of voices , ( it seems then they had high thoughts of the infallibility of general councils ) , but three should be chosen on either side , who being apart by themselves should invoke god , and whatever he should reveal unto them , that all should consent to : for he that hath said , that where two or three are gathered together in his name he would be in the midst of them ; he that made the ass to speak ( the cardinal 's own argument ) would not fail of letting them know his will infallibly , which was to be received from them by all others . ( there may be then a much readier way for infallibility , than by pope and councils ) . but if nothing else would satisfie but a council , it must be in italy , contrary to the popes promise before , that it should be at constantinople ; but when they urged the vastness of the expense , and unsuitableness of it to their present necessities ; rather then a matter likely to be so much for the advantage of the see of rome should not go forward , the pope proffers to advance a considerable sum of money for the defraying the charges of the greeks , both in coming to , and abiding at the council . which those who understand not the intrigues of that court , would have thought had been far better spent in a present supply of the greek emperour , the better to have enabled him to defend the christian churches from the invasion of their enemies . but any one who looks into the management of things , will easily discern upon what grounds the pope chose rather a dilatory proceeding , drawing the emperour and so many bishops from greece into italy at that time , and all the while to feed them with rich promises of assistance upon condition that the vnion was accomplished ; but at last after two years attendance ( for so long the council continued at ferrara and florence ) the poor emperour was sent home as empty as he came , and found things in a much worse condition then he left them . which could not rationally be expected to be otherwise . when the greeks knew that the emperour had assented that the council should be in italy , they began strangely to be troubled at it , some resolved never to communicate more in the councils of the vnion ; the patriarch often said , that he knew no good issue could come of a council held in the popes territories ; and if they must receive their allowance from the pope , what did they else but therein confess themselves his vassals already , and therefore nothing could be expected from them , but to do just what he would have them ; or else he might easily starve them into consent and approbation of his will. for they should be wholly under his power , and if he denyed their stipends , there was no possibility of getting from him . was not this then like to be a very free council ? and it proved accordingly : for when they were at council the pope kept them short enough , so that many of them were reduced to the greatest necessities , and were not suffered unless by stealth to go so much as out of the gates of the city , as bessarion himself once found , when he attempted it at florence . but notwithstanding all the perswasions of the wisest of his councellors at home to the contrary , notwithstanding an express from the emperour sigismund to disswade the greek emperour in the present state of affairs from this journy into italy , yet he was resolved upon it , and used all the arts he could before-hand to make choice of such persons as might be most for his purpose . himself without the consent of the patriarch , appointing the legats of the three other patriarchs of jerusalem , antioch , and alexandria : and when these patriarchs had given no other instructions to these legats , then that they should have power to give their suffrages upon these terms and no other , that all things were carried fairly , and defined canonically , according to the decrees of oecumenical councils and holy fathers , so that nothing should be added , changed , or innovated in the symbol of faith ; he at the instigation of one of the latin legats , then resident at constantinople , sent away to the several patriarchs , for the altering their instructions , upon a solemn promise that the conditions mentioned by them should however be exactly observed : which whether they were or no , will appear by the series of the story . and that we may better judge how general this council was like to be , at the same time that these negotiations for vnion were on foot , the council of basil was then sitting in opposition to pope eugenius ; to them and to the pope at the same time , the emperour dispatcheth several legats with the same instructions , and both of them returned theirs to the emperour , seeking as much as possible to outvy each other in large promises if the greeks did joyn in council with them ; both which the emperour held in play till he could see with whom he was like to make the best terms . but as the romanists are never backward at such arts , they had caused it by their instruments to be reported at constantinople , that the council at basil had submitted to the pope , which within fifteen days was confuted by the arrival of the gallyes sent from the council to convey the greeks over to it ; upon which the emperour had much to do to keep condelmerius the popes nephew from fighting the councils gallies within his view ; for he said , he had express order from the pope to sink them where-ever he met them . and were not these fair tendencies to a free and general council ? and yet after all this , not full thirty bishops of the greek church went along with the patriarch , as appears by the particular enumeration of them by sguropulus : other officers indeed , and monks , there were to fill up the number ; and yet these were more then the emperour could well mould to his designes when he had them there . but the pope soon accomplished the patriarchs prediction in keeping them bare enough , when they were at his finding , that he might be sure to make them hungry greeks , and then he supposed the other part of the proverb would follow after . after the council had begun at ferrara , and continued there sixteen sessions , wherein were many publick and solemn disputes between the greeks and latins , it was removed to florence ; where the greeks still underwent the same hardships , and the latins sought to hold out at disputations , till the greeks necessity should be so pressing , as to necessitate them to an absolute submission to the latin church . but , reports and messages coming from constantinople , acquainting the emperour with the difficulties the city was in , and the progress which the enemies made ; and finding , that during the sitting of the council the pope still put him off and gave him nothing but words , he therefore resolves upon another course ; he breaks all publick and conciliary proceedings , pretending that no issue would come of those disputations , calls a private cabal of such whom he knew fittest for his purpose to contrive some shorter way to put an end to this business . for that end , makes choice first of ten persons of either side to agree upon some proposals for union , and acquaints none else of the greeks with their transactions . when these things took no effect , the patriarch who carryed on the emperour's design , often convenes the greeks together , and in plain terms perswades them to perfect dissimulation , that since the necessity of affairs was such , it would be hugely for their advantage , if in some things they did yield to the latins desires . when they told him that in matters of faith they could not do it , he replyes , that if in twenty four articles of faith they yielded but in one , the soundness of twenty three would make amends for the twenty fourth . such kind of arguments as these were they driven to , to bring the greeks to hearken to any terms of vnion . after this , the latins sent them an explication of faith , which if the greeks would subscribe , there might be an union between them : which being read among them , containing chiefly the acknowledgement of the procession from the son , all but the four who were the emperour's instruments in this work , unanimously disown it : and when the emperour urged them every one to deliver their suffrages in writings , they tell him , it was contrary to the proceeding of all oecumenical councils : however , he told them he commanded them to do it . by which means rebuking some , cajoling others , he at last brought it by the multitude of suffrages , that five persons were selected among the rest , to draw up a form of vnion ; which , though drawn up very favourably for the greeks , yet , those who were for it , did not easily carry it from those who opposed it . and yet to this the latins returned no less than twelve exceptions : upon which the emperour was fain to take a new course , and exclude those from the councils , who were of greatest authority in obstructing his designs ; but marcus ephesius still continued in so great opposition , that he publickly charged the latins opinion with heresie . notwithstanding all which , when it was put to suffrage , whether the spirit did proceed from the son ; for ten who affirmed it , there were seventeen who denyed it , which put them yet to more disquietment , and new councils . at first the emperour would vote himself , which when the patriarch kept him from , some advised him to remove more of the dissenters : but , instead of that , they used a more plausible and effectual way ; the emperour and patriarch sent for them severally , and some they upbraided with ingratitude , others they caressed with all expressions of kindness , both by themselves and their instruments : yet , at the last , they could get but thirteen bishops to affirm the procession from the son , all others being excluded the power of giving suffrage ; who were accustomed formerly to give it , such as the great officers of the church of constantinople , the coenobiarchs and others ; but to fill up the number , all the courtiers were called in , who made no dispute , but did presently what the emperour would have them do . having dispatched this after this manner , the other controversies concerning the addition to the creed , unleavened bread in the eucharist , purgatory , pope's supremacy , the emperour agreed them privately , never so much as communicating them to the greek synod . among the emperours instruments , the bishop of mitylene went roundly to work , saying openly , let the pope give me so many florens to be distributed to whom i think fit , and i make no question but to bring them in very readily to subscribe the vnion ; which he accordingly effected ; and the same way was taken with several others : by which , and other means , most of those who were excluded from the suffrages were at last perswaded to subscribe . this is the short account of the management of those affairs at florence , which are more particularly and largely prosecuted by the author , wherein we see what clandestine arts , what menaces , and insinuations , what threats and promises were used to bring the poor greeks to consent to this pretended vnion . for it afterwards appeared to be no more than pretended ; for the infinitely greater number of bishops at home refused it , and these very bishops themselves , when they saw what arts were used in it , fell of● from it again , and the emperour found himself at last deceived in his great expectations of help from the latins . must we then acknowledge this for a free and general council , which hath a promise of infallibility annexed to the definitions of it ? shall we from hence pronounce the greeks doctrine to be heretical , when for all these proceedings , yet at last no more was agreed on , than that they did both believe the procession from the son , without condemning the other opinion as heretical , as you pretend , which the greeks would never have consented to ? or anathematizing the persons who denyed it , as was usual in former general councils , who did suppose it not enough to have it virtually done by the positive definition , but did expresly and formally do it . for when this anathematizing dissenters was propounded among the greeks by bessarion of nice , and isidore of russia ( who for their great service to the pope in this business were made cardinals ) it was refused by the rest , who were zealous promoters of the vnion . thus i have at large ( more out of a design to vindicate the greek church , than being necessitated to it by any thing you produce ) shewed , that there is no reason from authority either before or after the council of florence , to charge the greek church with heresie . i now come to the examination of your theological reason , by which you think you have so evidently proved the greeks opinion to be heresie , that you introduce it with confidence in abundance . but , say you , though this perswasion had not been attested by such clouds of witnesses , theological reason is so strong a foundation to confirm it , that i wonder how rational men could ever be induced to question the truth of it . still you so unadvisedly place your expressions , that the sharpest which you use against your adversaries return with more force upon your self : for it being so fully cleared , that these clouds of witnesses are fathers , councils , and popes against you , what do you else by this expression , but exclude them from the number of rational men , because , forsooth , not acquainted with the depth of your theological reason . but , is not this to make all the churches of christendom for many hundred years quite blind , and your self only clear and sharp-sighted ? which swelling presumption what spirit it argues , &c. you see wee need no other weapons against you , but your immediate preceding words . what pitty it is , that the fathers and councils had not been made acquainted with this grand secret of your theological reason ? but happy we that have it at so cheap a rate ! but it may be that is it which makes us esteem it no more . but such as it is , it being reason and theological too , it deserves the greatest respect that may be , if it makes good its title . his lordship had said , that since the greeks , notwithstanding this opinion of theirs , deny not the equality or consubstantiality of the persons in the trinity , he dares not deny them to be a true church for this opinion , though he grants them erronious in it . so this you reply , is it ( think you ) enough to assert the divinity , and consubstantiality , and personal distinction of the holy ghost ( as the bishop sayes ) to save from heresie the denyal of his procession from the father and the son as from one principle ? but why is it not enough ? your theological reason is that we want , to convince us of the contrary ; that therefore follows . would not he that should affirm the son to be a distinct person from , and consubstantial to the father , but denyed his eternal generation from him , be an heretick ? or he , who held the holy ghost , distinct from , and consubstantial to them both , but affirmed his procession to be from the son only , and not from the father , be guilty of heresie ? it is then most evident , that not only an errour against the consubstantiality and distinction , but against the origination , generation , and procession of the divine persons , is sufficient matter of heresie . your faculty at clinching your arguments , is much better than of driving them in : for your conclusion is most evident , when your premises have nothing like evidence in them . for , . he that doth acknowledge the son to be consubstantial with the father , and yet a distinct person from him , must needs therein acknowledge his eternal generation : for how he should be the son of the same nature with god , and yet having a distinct personality as a son , without eternal generation ; is so hard to understand , that i must confess , that whoever asserts the one , and deny's the other , is so far from theological reason , that i think he hath no common reason in him . is this then , think you , a parallel case with the procession of the spirit from the son , which may be supposed consubstantial to father and son , and a distinct person from both , without any connotation of respect to the personality of the son , as a principle of spiration ? . he that should affirm the procession of the spirit only from the son , and not the father , would speak much more absurdly than the greeks do ; for thereby he would destroy the father's being the fountain or principle of origination , as to the distinct hypostases of son and spirit ; he would plainly and directly thwart the creed of the second general council ; and , which is more than would speak directly against express words of scripture , which say , the spirit proceeds from the father : which by the consent of the christian church , hath been interpreted of the eternal procession . and by this time , i hope you begin to have better thoughts of rational men , than to make such a wonder at their questioning the greeks heresie ; but if this be your theological reason , one scruple of common reason goes far beyond it . we have had a fair proof of your skill at charging , we shall now see how good you are at standing your ground . your main defence lyes in a distinction which ruines you ; for you think to ward off all the citations his lordship produceth against you out of the schoolmen and others , that the greeks and latins agree with each other , in eandem fidei sententiam , upon the same sentence of faith , but differ only in words , by saying , that the greeks must be distinguished into ancient and modern . the ancient , you say , expressed themselves per filium , but they meant thereby à filio : whereas the modern greeks will not admit that expression à filio , but per filium only , and that too in a sense dissignificative to à filio . this is the substance of all the answer you give , both in general , and to the particular authorities for several pages ; the disproof therefore of this distinction must by your own confession , make all those testimonies stand good against you ; which i shall do by two things . . by shewing that the ancient greeks did assert as much as the modern do in this controversie . . that those who speak expresly of the modern greeks , do deny their difference from us in any matter of faith. . that the ancient greeks did assert as much as the modern do . by the ancient greeks , we must here understand those who writ before the schoolmen , whose testimonies you would answer by this distinction . now nothing can be more clear than that those greeks who writ before them , did as peremptorily deny the procession from the son , as any of the modern greeks do . we have already produced the testimony of theodoret , who accounts the contrary opinion blasphemous and impious ; and that of photius , who so largely and vehemently disputes against the procession from the son. to whom i shall add two more of great reputation , not only in the greek , but in the latin church ; and those are theophylact and damascen . theophylact , whether he lived in the time of photius , about , as the common opinion is , or more probably in the time of michael cerularius , as great an adversary as photius to the latins , about . yet was long enough before the schoolmen : for peter lombard flourished . a. d. . and thomas and bonaventure , about . so that in this respect he must be one of the ancient greeks ; he therefore delivers his opinion as expresly as may be in his commentaries on st. john ; and that not as his own private opinion , but as the common sense of the greek church ; for there taking occasion to speak how the spirit is the spirit of the son , for the latins , saith he , apprehend it amiss , and mistaking it , say , that the spirit proceeds from the son. but we answer , that it is one thing to say , the spirit is the spirit of the son , which we assert ; and another , that it proceeds from the son , which we deny ; for it hath no testimony of scripture for it , and then we must bring in two principles , the father and the son. and withall adds , that when christ breathed the spirit on his disciples , it is not to be understood personally , but in regard of the gift of remission of sins ; after which , he briefly and comprehensively sets down the opinion of the greek church : believe thou that the spirit doth proceed from the father , but is given to men by the son ; and let this be the rule of sound doctrine to thee . and what now do the modern greeks say more than theophylact did ? or what do they say less ; for they acknowledge , that the spirit is the spirit of the son as well as he ? to the same purpose damascen , who lived between the . and . synod , about a. d. . in the time of leo isaurus , delivers the sense of the greek church in his time concerning this article . it must be considered , saith he , that we assert not the father to be from any , but that he is said to be the father of the son. we say not , that the son is a proper cause , neither the father , but we say , the son is from the father , and of the father . the holy spirit , we say , is from the father ; and of the father ; but we say not , the spirit is from the son , but we call him the spirit of the son ; and we confess , that by the son , the spirit is manifested and given to us . these words are so plain , that the patriarch hieremias producing them , saith , nothing can be more clear and evident than these words are . but the philosopher , who was so much pleased to see the ass mumble his thistles , could not take much less contentment to see how the schoolmen handle this testimony of damascen . for , being very loath that so zealous an assertor of images , should in any thing seem opposite to the church of rome , they very handsomly , and with wonderful subtilty bring him off , by admiring the wisdom and caution he useth , in these words . so your own st. bonaventure , whose testimony youthink so considerable , as to produce at large , tamen ipse cautè loquitur , unde non dicit quod spiri●us non est à filio , sed dicit , non dicimus à filio , which you put in great letters the more to be taken notice of . but , i pray , what was it which damascen was there delivering of ? was it not the sense of the greek church concerning the persons of the trinity ? and how could he otherwise have expressed it , than by non dicimus ; but if this must argue what bonaventure and you would have from it ( for this is the only testimony you give of your distinction of ancient and modern greeks ) will it not as well hold for the other things before mentioned concerning the father and the son , where he useth dicimus & non dicimus , as well as here ? and therefore aquinas was much wiser , who plainly condemns damascen for a nestorian in this , licet à quibusdam dicatur , &c. although it be said by some , that in these words , he neither affirms or denys it ; wherein i am much mistaken , if he reflects not on bonaventure . vasquez , petavius , and several others think to bring damascen off by the distinctions of à filio , and per filium , much to your purpose : but in the great dispute at the council at florence between bessarion and marcus ephesius , about the importance of the articles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , marcus ephesius produceth the words of damascen expresly , that the spirit doth not proceed from the son , but by the son , whereby it is plain , that he understood per filium , in opposition to à filio . and bessarion had nothing else to return in answer to it , but that he could produce but one out of antiquity , who said so . thus we see , if theophylact and damascen , as well as theodoret and photius , be ancient greeks ; your distinction comes to nothing . but besides this , it appears by the disputations of hugo etherianus against the greeks , who lived , saith bellarmin , a. d. . still extant in the bibliotheca patrum , that the greeks held the very same then that they do now . and so in the synod of bar in apulia , when anselm disputed so stoutly against the greeks , that pope vrban said , he was , alterius orbis papa , as the story is related by eadmerus and wilhelmus malmesburiensis ; it appears , they denyed the procession of the spirit absolutely from the son ; ( and this was a. d. . ) as is evident from the letter of hildebertus to him about the publishing his disputation , and from the book of anselm still extant on that subject . we find not therefore any ground for this distinction of yours concerning the ancient and modern greeks ; and therefore they who said , that there was no real difference in any matter of faith between the ancient greeks and latins , must be understood as well of the modern greeks , as them : their words being no more capable of such a tolerable interpretation as you speak of , than the words of any of the modern greeks are . his lordship was proving , that the point was not fundamental , that the greeks and latins differed in from that acknowledgement of peter lombard , and the schoolmen ; that is to say , the holy ghost is the spirit of the father and the son , and that he is , or proceeds from the father and the son , is not to speak different things , but the same sense in different words . now in this cause , saith he , where the words differ , but the sentence of faith is the same , ( penitùs eadem ) even altogether the same , can the point be fundamental ? but , say you , he was to prove , that such as were in grievous errour in divinity , erred not fundamentally ; and , for proof of this , he alledges such as have no real errour at all in divinity . but do you not herein wilfully mistake his lordships meaning ? for in the paragraph foregoing , his lordship first declares his own judgement concerning the denying the procession of the holy ghost , viz. that he did acknowledge it to be a grievous errour in divinity : but yet he could not judge the greeks guilty of a fundamental errour , which he proves by a double medium . . because they did not thereby deny the equality and consubstantiality of the persons . . because divers learned men were of opinion , [ that à filio , & per filium ] in the sense of the greek church , was but a question in modo loquendi , and therefore not fundamental ; now for this he produceth those testimonies . now , i pray , do you put no difference between the making the denyal of a proposition to be an errour , and the saying , that such persons are guilty of the denyal of that proposition . his lordship grants the denyal of the procession to be a grievous errour in divinity , but he questioned ( as the greeks expressed themselves , for those very words he inserts ) whether they were guilty of denying that proposition , as appears by the authorities of the schoolmen , and therefore certainly much less guilty of a fundamental errour . thus you see his lordship fully proves what he intends ; for if they agreed in sense , they were much less guilty of a fundamental errour , than if they had plainly denyed the procession , which he supposeth from those authorities that they did not . and therefore when you sarcastically ask , is not this strong logick ? the only answer i shall give you , is , that if you apprehend it not to be so , it is because of the weakness of your theological reason . and therefore you put his lordships defender on a strange task , to prove from those authorities , that those greeks who erre grievously in divinity , erre not fundamentally . when the only design of his lordship , in producing those authorities , was to shew , that according to their opinion , the greeks were so far from erring fundamentally , that they did not erre grievously in divinity . and to this purpose the citation of peter lombard was pertinent , who saith , that because the greeks acknowledge , that the holy ghost is the spirit of the son , though he doth not proceed from him ; therefore the difference between the greeks and latins , is in words , and not in sense ; but , you say , he speaks only of such as differed in words , and not in substance ; as though he put a difference between the greeks , that some differed in words , and others really , which is quite beside his meaning : for he takes not the least notice of any such difference among themselves ; but saith , the difference it self concerning the procession , the greeks acknowledging the holy ghost to be the spirit of the son , is more verbal , than real . and that the present greeks say full as much , is evident ; for they acknowledge the same things in express words . the testimony of bonaventure hath been already considered , as far as concerns damascen ; as for the rest , it was sufficient for his lordships purpose , to produce such a confession from so bitter an enemy of the greeks , as bonaventure was ( so his lordship in his marginal citation sayes truly of him , licèt graecis infensissimus , &c. ) that he doth not deny but that salvation might be had without the article of filioque ; but whether on that supposition there were sufficient reason to add it to the creed , will be considered afterwards . though bonaventure held the greeks to be hereticks and schismaticks , i hope you do not think , that is argument enough to perswade us that they were so . that any thing , without which salvation might have been had before , may , by the definition of your church , become so necessary , that men cannot be saved without the belief of it , had need be more than barely asserted either by bonaventure , or you ; and we must wait for the proof of it , for any thing here said by either of you . that the greeks might be excused by ignorance , before such declaration of your church concerning the filioque , and not be excused after through greater ignorance of any such power in your church , to declare such things to be matters of faith , is an assertion not easie to be swallowed by such as have any strength of logick , or one drachm of theological reason : or else it is a very strange thing , you should think it sufficient for the greeks to know , what your church had declared without an antecedent knowledge that your church had power to declare . how much you answer at random , appears by your answering aquinas his testimony , instead of that of jodocus clictoveus , as is plain enough in his lordships margin ; and you might have been easily satisfied that it was so , if you had taken the pains to look into either of them . but the art of it was , aquinas his testimony might be easily answered , because he speaks only by hear-say , concerning the opinion of some certain greeks ; but clictoveus , his was close to the purpose , who plainly confesseth , that the difference of the ancient greeks was more in words , and the manner of explaining the procession then in the thing it self . this therefore you thought fit to slide by , and answer aquinas for him . your answer to scotus depends on the former distinction of ancient and modern greeks , and therefore falls with it . bellarmin's answer concerning damascen , and your own after bonaventure of his non dicimus , hath been sufficiently disproved already . what tolet holds , or the lutherans deny , the words of neither being of either side produced , deserve no further consideration . you tell us , his lordships argument depends upon this , that the holy ghost may be equal and consubstantial with the son , though he proceed not from it ; which , you say , is a matter too deep for his lordship to wade into . but any indifferent reader would think it had been your concernment to have shewn the contrary , that thereby you might seem to make good so heavy a charge , as that of heresie , against the whole greek church . for , if the holy ghost cannot be equal and consubstantial with the son , if it proceeds not from the son ; then it follows , that they who deny this procession , must deny that equality and consubstantiality of the spirit with the son : which you ought to prove , to make good your charge of heresie . but on the other side , if the spirit may be proved to be god by such arguments as do not at all infer his procession from the son ; then his equality and consubstantiality doth not depend upon that procession : for i suppose you grant , that it is the vnity of essence in the persons which make them equal and consubstantial ; but we may sufficiently prove the spirit to be god by such arguments as do not infer the procession from the son ; as i might easily make appear by all the arguments insisted on to that purpose : but i only mention that which the second general council thought most cogent to that purpose , which is the spirit 's eternal procession from the father ; if that proves the spirit to be god , then its equality with the son , is proved without his procession from the son ; for i hope you will not say , that the proving his procession from the father , doth imply procession from the son too : because the procession cannot be supposed to be from the essence , for then the spirit would proceed from it self , but from the hypostasis , and therefore one cannot imply the concurrence of the other . and since you pretend so much to understand these depths ; before you renew a charge of heresie against the greek church in this particular , make use of your theological reason in giving an intelligible answer to these questions . . why the spirit may not be equal and consubstantial to the other persons in the trinity , supposing his procession to be only from the father , as the son to be equal and consubstantial with them , when his generation is only from the father ? . if the procession from the son be necessary to make the spirit consubstantial with the son , why is not generation of the son by the spirit necessary to make the son consubstantial with the spirit ? . if the spirit doth proceed from father and son as distinct hypostases , how he can proceed from these hypostases as one principle by one common spiration , without confounding their personalties ? or else , shew how two distinct hypostases alwayes remaining so , can concur in the same numerical action ad intra ? . if there be such a necessity of believing this as an article of faith , why hath not god thought fit to reveal to us , the distinct emanations of the son and spirit ; and wherein the eternal generation of the son may be conceived as distinct from the procession of the spirit , when both equally agree in the same essence , and neither of them express the personality of the father ? either i say undertake intelligibly to resolve these things , or else surcease your charge of heresie against the greek church , and upbraid not his lordship for not entering into these depths . methinks , their being confessed to be depths on both sides , might teach you a little more modesty in handling them , and much more charity to men who differ about them . for you may see , the greeks want not great plausibleness of reason on their side , as well as authority of scripture and fathers , plain for them , but not so against them . as long therefore as the greek church confesseth the divinity , consubstantiality , eternal procession of the spirit ; and acknowledgeth it to be the spirit of the son , there must be something more in it then the bare denyal of the procession from the son , which must make you so eager in your charge of heresie against her . the truth is , there is something else in the matter ; by this article of filioque , the authority of the church of rome in matters of faith is struck at : and therefore if this be an heresie , it must be on the account of denying the plenitude of her power in matters of faith , as anselm and bonaventure ingenuously confess it , and plead it on that account . and therefore wise men are not apt to believe , but that if the church of rome had not been particularly concerned in this addition to the creed ; if the greeks would have submitted in all other things to the church of rome , this charge of heresie would soon be taken off the file . but , as things stand , if she be not found guilty of heresie , she may be found as catholick as rome , and more too , and therefore there is a necessity for it , she must be contented to bear it , for it is not consistent with the interest of the church of rome , that she should be free from heresie , schism , &c. but if she hath no stronger adversaries to make good the charge then you , she may satisfie her self , that though the blows be rude , yet they are given her by feeble hands . for let us now make way for theological reason to enter the lists armed cap-a-pe in mood and figure . for now at last you tell us , you will argue in forme against his lordship and the greek church together . and thus it proceeds , if the greeks errour be not only concerning , but against the holy ghost , then ( according to the bishops own distinction ) they have lost all assistance of that blessed spirit , and are become no true church ; but their errour is not only concerning , but against the holy ghost : therefore , &c. the major or first proposition contains the bishops own doctrine , the minor or second proposition ( wherein you learnedly tell us , what the major and minor in syllogisms are ) you thus prove . all errours , specially opposite to the particular and personal procession of the holy ghost , are ( according to all divines ) not only errours concerning , but errours against the holy ghost : but the greeks errour is opposite to the particular and personal procession of the holy ghost , as is already proved : ergo , their errour is not only concerning , but against the holy ghost ; whose assistance therefore they have lost , not only according to the first , but even latter branch of the bishops distinction : and consequently remain no true church . now who is there , that out of meer pitty can find in his heart not to yield this to you , when you have been at such pains to prove it ? but things set out with the greatest formality have not alwayes the most solidity in them . all the force of this argument , such as it is , lye's in this , that his lordship had said , that the errour of the greeks was rather about the doctrine concerning the holy ghost , then against the holy ghost , which he after explains , by saying , it was not such an errour , as did destroy the equality or consubstantiality of the spirit with the other persons of the trinity ; i pray now take his lordships explication of himself , and you must form your argument after another way then you have done : but you saw well enough , that you could not make any shew of an argument but meerly from words . if i thought it worth considering , it were easie to tell you , that what is only against the procession from the son , is not thereby against the holy ghost , because it may be the holy ghost , i. e. the third person in the trinity , though it proceed only from the father . and as well you might say , that whatever doctrine denies the son to be begotten of the spirit , is not only concerning , but against the son , and urge the consequences upon as good terms as you do about the spirit : but so trifling an argument is too much honoured by any serious confutation . and , it seems , you were something sensible of it your self , when you say , his lordship seemed to have provided against the force of it ( as who would not ? ) by hinting a difference between errours fundamental and not fundamental ; which point i shall purposely examine in the following chapter . when you therefore come to hold forth what is now but hinted at , i shall readily hearken to what you have to say . thus for any thing you have produced to the contrary , it sufficiently appears , that the greek church is very unjustly charged with heresie by you , and that those testimonies which his lordship produced , would as well hold for the modern as ancient greeks : to which i might add the judgement of others of your own side , who speak as much concerning the modern greeks , as thomas à jesu , azorius and others ; but i think not that way of arguing to have much force on either side , and therefore pass it over . and come to the debate of the filioque , with which , you say , his lordship begins to quibble , on occasion of the popes inserting it into the creed . but i am quite of another mind , i think he speaks very seriously , and with a great deal of reason , when he saith , and rome in this particular should be more moderate , if it be but because this article ( filioque ) was added to the creed by her self . and 't is hard to add and anathematize too . for what you say to this , of the holy ghost's having leave to assist the church , in adding expressions for the better explication of any article of faith : and then the pope hath leave and command too , to anathematize all such , as shall not allow the use of such expressions : i commend you , that when you must beg something , you would beg all that was to be had at once ; but , before you perswade us to the digesting such crudities as these are , prove but these following things . . where it is , that there is any promise of the ghost's assistance , in adding any articles to the creed , under pretence of better expressions for explication of them ? . supposing such an assistance , what ground is there to impose such additional expressions , so that those who admit them not , must be guilty of heresie , and consequently ( by your principles ) incurr eternal damnation . . how those expressions can be accounted a better explication of an article of faith , which contain something not implyed in , nor necessarily deduced from , any other article of faith ? . if this assistance be promised to the church , how any one part of that church , as great a part stifly opposing such additional expressions , can claim that assistance to it self ; the other parts of the catholick church , utterly denying it ? . if an assistance as to such things be promised the church , why may it not be more reasonably presumed to be in an oecumenical council , as that at ephesus forbidding such additions , than in any part of the church , which after such a decree shall directly contradict it ? . what right can the church have to anathematize any for the not using such expressions , which that church which determins the use of them , doth acknowledge to be only expressions for better explication of an article of faith ? and consequently the denyal of them cannot amount to the denyal of an article of faith ? but only of the better explication of it . . if all these things be granted , how comes the pope , not only to have leave , but command too , to anathematize all such as use not these expressions ? where is that command extant ? how comes it to be limited to him ? is he expressed in it ? or doth it by necessary consequence follow from it ? what good would it do us , to see but one of these proved , which you very fairly beg in the lump together : and , till you have proved them all , you may assure your self , that we shall never believe that the pope hath so much as leave , much less command , to add and anathematize too . as to the filioque , you grant , that many hundred years had passed from the time of the apostles , before filioque was added to the nicene creed , and more since the declarations and decrees were sufficiently published , and in all these years salvation was had without mention of filioque . a fair concession ; and nothing is wanting to destroy all that you had said before , but only this , that what was not once necessary to salvation , cannot by any after-declaration of the church be made necessary , as shall be abundantly manifested in the controversie of fundamentals . what follows , must be more particularly considered , because therein you would fain remove the article of filioque , from being the cause of the schism between the eastern and western churches , and impute it wholly to the pride and ambition of the eastern prelates . your words are . but it is also true , that the addition of filioque to the creed , was made many years before the difference brake out between the latins and greeks ; so that the inserting this word ( filioque ) into the creed , was not the first occasion of schism : but grudges arising among the greeks , who had been a large flourishing church , with a number of most learned and zealous prelates , and held the articles still , though upon emptier heads ; such , quickly filled with wind , thinking their swelling places , and great city of constantinople , might hold up against rome ; they began to quarrel , not for places ( that was too mean a motive for such as look'd so big ) but first they would make it appear , they could teach rome ; nay , they spyed out heresies in it ( the old way of all hereticks ) and so fell to question the procession of the holy ghost ; and must needs have filioque out of the creed , these words of yours , lay the charge of schism on the greeks wholly , and therefore , in order to our vindication of them from that , two things must be enquired into . . whether it was in your churches power to make the addition of filioque to the creed . . whether the greeks ambition and pride were the only cause of the separation between the eastern and western churches . . concerning the addition of filioque , two things must be enquired into ; . when it began , and by whom it was added to the creed . . whether they who added it , had power so to do , and to impose on all others the use of it . . concerning the time of this addition , nothing seems more dark in church-history than the precise and punctual time of it . and so much you acknowledge your self elsewhere . but it seems , it is your concernment , to say , that the addition was made before the difference brake out . to that i answer , if you mean , that in some churches the procession from the son was acknowledged before that difference , i grant it , as is clear by some councils of toledo ; and , that the doctrine of the procession was received in france too , about the time of charls the great , i acknowledge , and that it was admitted into the solemn offices of the church ; but , that it was added to the nicene and constantinopolitan creed to be received by all churches ; so that it should not be lawful for any to use that creed without such addition , that i deny to have been before the schism , but , assert it to have been a great occasion of it . it is acknowledged , that in spain , several councils of toledo , in their profession of faith , do mention the procession from the son ; but this they delivered only as their own private judgments , and not as the publick creed received by all churches . for , petavius confesseth , that , in symbolo ipso nihil adjecerunt , they added nothing at all to the creed . and , although the custom of singing the constantinopolitan creed in the liturgy , seems first to have begun in spain , from whom petavius supposeth both the french and germans received it ; yet , even there it appears , it was not universally received . for , the church of sevil contented it self still with the mozarabick liturgy , in which only the bare nicene creed was used . you tell us indeed , that the inserting the article in the councils of toledo , is supposed to have been done upon the authority of an epistle they had received from pope leo : which , though it be not barely supposed , but asserted with great confidence by baronius ; yet , ( as most other things in him which are brought to advance the pope's authority ) it hath no other ground but his confident assertion . there being not the least shadow of proof for it , but only that this leo , in a certain epistle of his to the spaniards , did , once upon a time , mention , that the son proceeded from the father . therefore , in spain , i grant the doctrine to be received ; i deny the addition to be made to the constantinopolitan creed : although it be read , as added to it in the . or . council of toledo , under reccesuintus a. d. . but this was still only the declaration of their own faith , in this article , and no imposing it on others . in france , that it began to be received in publick use a. d. . must be acknowledged by the proceedings of the legats from the council of aquisgrane to pope leo . but , it appears as clearly , that pope leo did then condemn the use of it , as will be shewed afterwards . when it should creep into the athanasian creed , seems as hard to find out , as when first added to the constantinopolitan ; but , if we believe pithaeus , the whole creed was of a french composition ( there being many arguments to perswade us , it never was made by athanasius ; of which , in their due place ) and vossius adds , that it is very probable it was composed about the time of charls the great , the controversie being then so rise about the procession . but that seems the less probable , because the article of filioque is not found in the ancient copies of that creed . for spalatensis saith , that in all the greek copies he had seen , there was only mention made of the procession from the father . and the patriarch cyril saith , that not only the symbol of athanasius is adulterated among the latins ; but , that it is proved to be so by the more ancient and genuine copies : but , however this be , we deny not but the article of procession from the son , grew into use , especially in the gallican and spanish churches , before the schism broke out between the eastern and western churches ; but , our enquiry is not concerning that , but concerning the time when it was so added to the constantinopolitan creed , that it was required to be used only with that addition . for this you tell us , that hugo eterianus affirms , that it was added by the pope in a full council at rome , but he names not the pope . so likewise the latin divines , at the council of florence , pretended still , that it was added by the pope in a full council , but very carefully forbare the mention of the person , or the punctual time . but , it is your unhappiness , if there be divers opinions to be followed , to make choice of the most improbable ; as you do here , when you embrace that of socolovius , which is , that the fathers of the first council at constantinople , sending the confession of their faith to pope damasus , and his council at rome ; the pope and council at rome approved of their said confession ; but yet added , by way of explication , the word filioque to the article which concerned the holy ghost ; and this they did , to signifie , that the holy ghost as true god , proceeded from the son , and was not made or created by him , as some hereticks in those times began to teach . neither doth he , say you , affirm this without citation of some credible authority . i could wish you had produced it , not only for our satisfaction , but of the more learned men of your own side ▪ who look on this as an improbable fiction . bellarmin produceth many arguments against it , saying , that no mention is made of it in the councils , or theodoret's history , who particularly relates the letters of the council to damasus , and his to the council ; that leo . caused the constantinopolitan creed to be inscribed in a silver table , without that addition ; that the third council of toledo used the creed without that addition ; that the greeks did not begin this controversie till a. d. . and how could they possibly charge the latins with breaking the canons of the third oecumenical ( when , according to this opinion ) it was added in the second . petavius is so great a friend to your opinion , that in plain terms he calls it ridiculous , and abundantly confutes that imagination of its being inserted , because of the heresie of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as manuel calecas calls it , who with aristinus are all those worshipful authorities which this opinion stands on . but , setting aside the contrary authorities to these , any one , who is any thing versed in this controversie , must needs esteem this the most improbable account that can be given of this addition . for , if this were true , how little did the latins at the council at florence understand their business ; when , if they could have produced such an addition before the ephesine council , all the greeks objections had come to nothing ? if this were true , how little did leo . consult his own , or his predecessors honour , who disswaded the legats of the council at aquisgrane , from continuing in the creed that addition of filioque : for , when after a great deal of discourse concerning the article and the addition ; the legats at last tell him , that they perceived , his pleasure was , that it should be taken out of the creed , and so every one left to his liberty . his answer is , so it is certainly determined by me , and i would perswade you by all means to assent to it : and , to manifest this to be his constant judgment , he caused the constantinopolitan creed , without the addition of filioque to be inscribed in a greater silver tablet , and placed publickly in the church , to be read of all , as appears by the testimony of photius , and peter lombard , that so all , both greeks and latins , might see , that nothing was added to the creed . had not this now been a strange action of his , if this addition had been so long before in the time of damasus ? nothing then can be more evident , than that in this leo's time , no such addition was made to the creed : therefore , it seems most probable , which the famous antoninus delivers , that this addition was made by pope nicolaus . for , when he relates he causes , why photius excommunicated him , he mentions that in the first place , that he had made an addition to the creed , by making the spirit to proceed from the son ; and therefore had fallen under the sentence of the third oecumenical council , which prohibited such additions to be made . to which p. pithaeus subscribes likewise , and petavius seems not to dissent ; the only thing which is pretended against it , is , that andreas colossensis in the council at ferrara , saith , that though photius was a known and bitter enemy of the latin church , yet he never objected this addition against nicolaus or adrian ; but how strangely overseen andreas was in these words , sufficiently appears by photius his encyclical epistle , wherein he doth in terms object this against the latins , as appears by the words already produced . so that although you would willingly have set this addition far enough off from the schism , yet you see how improbable a fiction you produce for it ; and withall , you see , that this addition , by the consent of your own most learned and impartial writers , falls just upon the time when the schism broke out , viz. in the time of nicolaus and photius ; and therefore now judge you , whether these words were so long added before the schism , that they could give no occasion to it . . the next thing to be considered , is , whether they , who added it , had power so to do ? two things the greeks insist on , to shew , that it was not done by sufficient authority . . because all such additions were directly prohibited by the ephesine council . . that supposing them not prohibited , yet the pope had no power to add to the creed , without the consent of the eastern churches . . that such additions were severely prohibited by the ephesine council : the sanction of which council to this purpose hath been already produced , and is extant both in the acts of the ephesine and florentine councils , in which latter it is insisted on as the foundation of the greek's arguments against the addition of filioque , by marcus ephesius ; and the reason he there gives of such a sanction made by the council at ephesus , is , that after the nicene council , in several provincial councils , there were above thirty several expositions made of the nicene creed ; upon which , the second oecumenical council made a further explication of it , explaining those things which belonged to the divinity of the spirit , and the incarnation of christ ; and , because they did not prohibit any additions , the nestorians easily depraved the nicene creed , inserting their own opinions into it ( as appears by the confession of faith exhibited to the council by charisius ) which being read in the council , and the fathers thereby understanding how easily , after this rate , new creeds might be continually made in the church , they severely prohibited any further additions to be made to the creed . and therefore , although they decreed in that council the virgin mary to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in opposition to nestorius ; yet , they never offered to insert it into the creed , although they apprehended it necessary to explain the oeconomy of our saviour's incarnation . and that which much confirms the meaning of the decree , to be the absolute prohibition of all kind of additions to the creed , is , the epistle of s. cyril of alexandria to johannes antiochenus , wherein reciting this decree of the council , he adds these words as the explication of it . we neither permit our selves or others to change one word or syllable of what is herein contained ( speaking of the nicene creed ) which epistle was read and approved in the fourth oecumenical council . to this the latins answered them , that which is still answered in the same case , viz. that this article of filioque was only a declaration , and not a prohibited addition : but the greeks say , this answer is unsatisfactory on these accounts . . because there is no reason to say , that decree doth not forbid the inserting declarations into the creed . . that if it did not forbid that , yet there is as little reason to say , this was a meer declaration . . because there is no reason to say , that the council did not forbid the inserting declarations into the creed : for , as bessarion well observes , it never was lawful to add new and distinct articles of faith , from those which are contained in scripture , but the church only undertook the explication and declaration of the things therein contained ; and this was only lawful . therefore the ancient fathers had full liberty of explaining articles of faith , and using those explications , as they judged most expedient , and to place them where they thought good , so it were not in scripture : thence they might insert them into the creed , or elsewhere . but afterwards ( i. e. after this decree of the ephesine council ) this liberty was partly taken away , and partly continued . for , it never was , or will be , unlawful to explain or declare articles of faith ; but to insert those explications into the creed , is now unlawful , because forbidden by the decree of a general council . for , saith he , the fathers of the third council , observing what great inconveniencies had followed in the church , upon the inlargement of creeds , and that no injury could at all come by the prohibition of any further additions to be inserted ( for by that means they should only be bound to believe no more than what those holy fathers believed ; and who dare charge their faith with imperfection ) and they did therefore wisely forbid all other expositions of faith to be inserted into the creed , as he there at large proves . and in the progress of that discourse , takes off that which bellarmin looked on as the only satisfactory answer , viz. that the prohibition concerned only private persons ; for , saith he , it cannot be conceived , that the council should take care about the declarations of the creed , made by particular persons ( whereas it alwaies was , and is lawful for such to declare their faith more particularly , as appears by the creed of charisius , received in this council ) but this they looked after , that the creed , which was commonly received in the christian churches , and into which men are baptized , should receive no alteration at all . and to shew what their meaning was , though their council was purposely assembled against nestorius , yet they would not insert 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 into the creed . and the same decree was observed in the , , , . councils ; which , by their actions , did declare this to be the meaning of the ephesine council , that no declarations whatsoever , should hereafter be inserted into the creed . for , if they were meer declarations , there was much less necessity of inferting them into the creed , which was supposed to be a systeme of the necessary articles of faith. . there was as little reason to say , that this article was a meer declaration . for , the latins pretended , that the article of filioque , was only a further explication of that ex patre . for , if so , then whosoever doth believe the procession from the father , doth believe all that is necessary to be believed : and therefore certainly it can be no heresie not to believe the procession from the son , because that is only supposed to be a declaration of that from the father . and since you are so ready to charge the greek church with heresie , i pray tell us whether this article be a declaration or not : if not , then the latins were all deceived , who pleaded the lawfulness of inserting filioque on that account ; and consequently it must be a prohibited addition : if it be , then shew us what heresie lyes in not acknowledging a meer explication , when all that is supposed necessary is believed in the substance of the article . moreover , bessarion rightly distinguisheth between an explication , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and therefore grants , that the filioque might be said to be an explication of something contained in the creed , but not out of any thing contained in the creed ; and therefore the medium being extrinsecal , it could not be said to be a meer declaration . for , there can be no necessary argument drawn from the procession from the father , to inferr the procession from the son ; but it must be proved from some extrinsecal distinct argument . . suppose this to be no prohibited addition , yet what right had the pope and his council , without the consent of the eastern churches , to make this addition to the creed ? for , the greeks said , whatever authority the church of rome had , it received by the canons , and its authority was therefore less then that of an oecumenical council , wherefore it could not justly repeal , or act contrary to the decree of a general council , as it did apparently in this case . by which means , the latins were driven off from those which they looked on as slighter velitations , and took sanctuary in the plenitude of the pope's power , that therefore no council could prescribe to him ; there could be no necessity of his calling the eastern churches to debate this addition , for he could do it of himself , by virtue of his own authority in and over the church . here anselm and bonaventure think to secure themselves , and hither they are all driven at last . so that we plainly see , whatever else is pretended , the pope's usurped power was that which truly gave occasion to the schism : for , it was not the latins believing the procession from the son , which made the separation between the eastern and western churches , but the pope's pretending a power to impose an article of faith in the creed against the decree of a former , and without the consent of a present oecumenical council . if you pretend , that there hath been since an oecumenical council at florence , which hath declared it ; by that very answer you justifie the greeks before that council , and so lay the guilt of the schism wholly on the pope , who did insert and impose this article , before an oecumenical council . thus still it appears , the cause of the schism began at rome ; and by the same argument with which you charge them with heresie , viz. the council at florence , you vindicate the greek church from schism , in all the actions of it before that council . and this might suffice to shew , that it was not the levity , vanity , or ambition of the greeks , which gave the great occasion of the schism , but the pride , incroachments , and vsurpations of the church of rome , as might largely be manifested from the history of those times , when the schism began . the rise of which ought to be derived from the times of the constantinopolitan , and chalcedon councils ; the second and fourth oecumenical . for , the canons of those councils decreeing equal priviledges to constantinople , with those of rome , made the popes have a continual jealousie upon the greek church , and watch all opportunities to disgrace it , and infringe the liberties of it . thence came the rage of leo against anatolius the patriarch of constantinople , in the time of martianus ; thence the feud between simplicius and felix . of rome , and acacius of constantinople , for defending the priviledges of his see , in opposition to the pope's ; insomuch that felix fairly excommunicates him , because he would not submit to the pope's tryal in the case of the patriarch of alexandria ; which continued so long , that euphemius , who succeeded acacius , though he excommunited petrus moggus of alexandria , yet could not be received into the communion of the roman church by felix , because he would not expunge the name of acacius out of the diptychs of the church ; and afterwards gelasius refused it on the same grounds ; which euphemius still denying to do , the schism continued . and , although afterwards the emperour anastasius , and the greek church , desired the making up of this difference ; yet no other terms of communion would be accepted by hormisdas , without the expunging the name of acacius . so implacably were they bent against the very memory of acacius , for defending the priviledge of his see , that they would rather continue that lamentable schism , than not avenge themselves upon him ; and consequently , make all future patriarchs fearful of opposing the pope's authority . if we look yet further , we shall still find the ambition of the popes to have caused all the disturbance in the greek churches , although some of the patriarchs of constantinople cannot be excused from the same faults . in the time of the second council at nice , pope adrian not only contends for the enlargement of his jurisdiction , but threatens to pronounce them hereticks , who did not consent to it , which makes petrus de marcâ say , that he supposeth [ that ] the first time ever any were charged with heresie on such an account . the same pretence we find still in all the schisms which after happened , as that in the time of photius , that afterward , in the time of michael cerularius , and in the successive ages , still the terms of communion were , submission to the church of rome , and acknowledgledging the supremacy of that see , which the greeks did then , and do still constantly deny ; so that it was not the greeks levity , but the romanists ambition and usurpation which gave occasion to that fearful schism . but for all this , it must still be lawful for your church to add , and anathematize too : which his lordship thought a little unreasonable , but it seems you do not : for , say you , the church did rightly anathematize all such denyers ; why so ? because the meaning of the latin church being understood by the addition of filioque , and that whosoever denyed , must be supposed to deny the procession , then it became heresie to deny it , and the church did rightly anathematize all such denyers . so you say indeed ; but , you would do well . to shew , that the understanding the meaning of the latin church , is sufficient to make the denyers of what she affirms , to be hereticks . . how any one that denies the filioque , must be supposed to deny the procession , if you mean the procession à filio , you speak very wisely , but prove nothing ; for some might grant the procession , and yet deny the lawfulness of your churches adding to the creed . . all this while we are to seek how the latin church can make any thing to be a heresie , which was not so before . and therefore if your anathema's have no better grounds , the greeks need not much fear the effects of them . that your church on any occasion is apt enough to speak loud words , we may very easily believe , but whether she had just cause to speak so big in this cause , is the thing in question , and we have already manifested the contrary . his lordship sayes , it ought to be no easie thing , to condemn a man of heresie in foundation of faith ; much less a church ; least of all , so ample and large a church as the greek , especially so as to make them no church . heaven gates were not so easily shut against multitudes , when s. peter wore the keyes at his own girdle . to this you answer ; neither is the roman-catholick church justly accusable of cruelty ( though the bishop taxes her of it ) because she is quick and sharp against those that fall into heresie . but , if she hath power to pronounce whom she please hereticks , and on what account she please ( as hadrian i. in case of his patrimony ) and then it be commendable in her to deal with them as hereticks , it must needs be dangerous opposing her in any thing , for such who dread her anathema's . but his lordship was not speaking of what was to be done , in case of notorious heresie , but what tenderness ought to be used in condemning men for heresie ; and much more in condemning whole churches for it , on such slender accounts as you do the greek church . you should shew , when s. peter , or any of the apostles did exclude churches from communion , for denying such articles as that you charge the greek church with . and it would be worth your enquiry , why those in the corinthian church , who at least questioned the resurrection ; those in the galatian and other churches , who asserted the necessity of the ceremonial law under the gospel , both which errours are by the apostle said to be of so dangerous a nature ; are not anathematized presently by the apostle , and thrown out of the church , at least , to prevent the infection of other christians , if not for the good of the libertine hereticks , as you speak . your mentioning s. peters proceeding with ananias and sapphira , must be acknowledged a very fit resemblance for your churches dealing with hereticks ; only they whom you are pleased to account hereticks , have cause to rejoyce , that since your churches good will is so much discovered , she hath not the same miraculous power : for , then she would be sure to have few left to oppose her . but do you really think , anania's and sapphira's fault was no greater than that of the greek church , that you produce this instance ? and , do you think the church enjoyes still the same power over offenders , which s. peter then had ? if not , to what purpose do you mention such things here ; unless to let us see , that it is want of some thing else besides will , which makes you suffer any whom you call hereticks to live . that s. paul chastised his untoward children , indeed you tell us , from cor , . . tim. . . but if you bring this to any purpose , you must make the greeks errour , as bad as incest , or a denying the faith ; and when you have done so , you may hear of a further answer . on what account your church punisheth delinquents , will be then necessary to be shewed , when you have a little further cleared what power your church hath to make delinquents in such cases as you condemn the greek church for . but , as long as your church is accuser , witness , and judge too , you must never expect that your anathema's will be accounted any other than bruta fulmina , noise and no more . chap. . of fundamentals in general . the popish tenet concerning fundamentals , a meer step to the roman greatness . the question about fundamentals stated . an enquiry into the nature of them . what are fundamentals , in order to particular persons ; and what to be owned as such , in order to ecclesiastical communion . the prudence and moderation of the church of england , in defining articles of faith. what judged fundamental by the catholick church . no new articles of faith can become necessary . the churches power in propounding matters of faith , examined . what is a sufficient proposition . of the athanasian creed , and its being owned by the church of england . in what sense the articles of it are necessary to salvation . of the distinction of the material and formal object of faith , as to fundamentals . his lordship's integrity , and t. c ' s . forgery , in the testimony of scotus . of heresie , and how far the church may declare matters of faith. the testimony of s. augustine vindicated . the greek church appearing not guilty of heresie , by any evidence of scripture , reason , or the consent of the primitive church , nothing is left to make good the charge , but that the church of rome hath defin'd it to be so ; which pretence , at first view , carrying the greatest partiality , and unreasonableness in it , great care is taken , that the partiality be not discovered , by not openly mentioning the church of rome , but the church in general ( as though it were impossible to conceive any other church but that at rome ) and for the unreasonableness of it , it must be confidently asserted , that all points defin'd by the church are fundamental : so to be sure the greek church will never escape the charge of heresie . for this end , mr. fisher in the conference acknowledgeth , that when his lordship had denyed the errour of the greek church to be fundamental , he was forced to repeat what he had formerly brought against dr. white , concerning points fundamental . the reason of which was , that , easily perceiving that it was impossible to stand their ground in their charge on the greek church upon other terms , he is forced to take sanctuary in the churches definition ; and if that will not make it good , there is nothing else remaining to do it . and this is the cause of the following dispute concerning fundamentals ; wheren the main thing undertaken , is , the proof , that the formal reason of fundamentals , is to be taken from the definition of the present church ; but , as this must be confessed to be the main fundamental of the church of rome , ( for which yet the thing being manifest , no definition of that church is necessary ; ) so withall , i doubt not , but it will be made evident in the progress of this discourse , that never was there any pretence more partial , absurd , and tyrannical than this is . which his lordship takes notice of in these words , which deserve a repetition ; it was not the least means by which rome grew to her greatness , to blast every opposer she had with the name of heretick or schismatick ; for this served to shrivel the credit of the persons . and the persons once brought into contempt and ignominy , all the good they desired in the church , fell to dust , for want of creditable persons to back and support it . to make this proceeding good , in these latter years , this course , it seems , was taken . the school that must maintain ( and so they do ) that all points defin'd by the church , are thereby fundamental , necessary to be believed , of the substance of faith ; and that , though it be determined quite extra scripturam . and then leave the wise and active heads to take order , that there be strength enough ready to determine what is fittest for them . to this you answer , with an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ! you call it a squib , a fancy , a weak discourse , one of the bishop's railleries , and what not . it seems it pinched you hard , you cry out so tragically . but it is very certain , you are more impatient to have your politicks , than your errours discovered ; and if you have any curses more dreadful than others , they are sure to light on those who discover the intrigues of your designs . for if once men come to discern how much more of artifice and cunning , than of truth and religion , there is in the managing the interest of your church , they would not easily think , the way to heaven can lye among so many foldings of the old serpent : and this is not to think as you tragically speak , that all the world is turn'd mad or heathen : for , thanks be to god , as catholique as your church is , it must be a huge catachresis to take it for all the world : neither do we think your church mad , but very wise and politick in these pretences ; and that still you are resolved to shew , that though other churches may be more children of light than yours ( ignorance being so much in favour with you ) yet yours is wiser in its generation . but how the pretending of your church to infallibility , and power to define fundamentals , should make us imagine all the world heathen , is not easie to conceive , unless you are conscious to your self , that such pretences as these are , are the way to make it so . but we must see still how your cothurnus fits you . no truth left upon earth , but all become juglers ? see what it is to be true catholiques , that if they juggle , all the world must do so too ; as though totus mundus exercet histrioniam , were latin for the infallibility of the church of rome . but have you indeed such a monopoly of truth , that if your party prove juglers , there will be no truth left upon earth ? if you had said , none unsophisticated , yet even that had been a great truth left upon earth still . but i shall cut you short in what follows of your declamation , by telling you , that though your harangue were ten times longer than it is , and your exclamations louder , and your authorities better than of your prelates , miracles , doctors , heads of schools , austere and religious persons ( in english monks and friers ) yet all these would not one jot perswade us contrary to common sense , and the large experience of the world , that religion is not made by you an instrument to advance the pope's ambition , and that the church is but a more plausible name , whereby to maintain the court of rome . and we need not go from our present subject , for a proof of it . i will not charge this upon all persons of your communion , for all of them do not believe the state-principles of your church ; and others are kept , as much as may be , from all waies of discovering the great designs of it ; and therefore there may be so much innocency and simplicity in some , as may keep them from prostituting their salvation to the pope's greatness : but this is no plea on behalf of those who have the managery of those designs ; who if they do not see what things are fittest for the pope's temporal ends , will not long be thought fit for their employment . but , is it not palpable how much you endeavour to shrivel christianity into a party and faction , excluding all others that are not of your party out of the church , and consequently from hopes of salvation , though never so pious and conscientious ? are not the far greatest part of the opinions you contend for , against all the rest of the christian world , such as are manifestly subservient to temporal ends ? and are not such more zealously disputed for , than the plain articles of faith , and the indispensable precepts of the christian religion ? have you not found out all the artifices imaginable , to enervate the force of christian piety , by your doctrines about repentance , prayer , indulgences , probability , purgatory , and such like ? and instead of those rational acts of devotion , which our religion requires from us , have made choice of such fond , ludicrous , unintelligible pieces of devotion ( by the most who are concerned in them ) as though you were resolved to see how much it was possible to debauch christianity , and make it contemptible in the world ? add to these the arts you have to violate humane societies , by dispensing with oaths , breaking faith , dissolving obedience to civil authority , when it opposeth your designs ; and is it possible then for persons not blind-folded with the grossest sort of implicit faith , to judge otherwise , but the design of your chvrch is to determine , not what is truest , but what is fittest for your ends ? and , although you scurrilously call his lordship's discourse , stuff that might serve sometimes for pulpit-babble , to deceive the giddy multitude , and cast a mist before their eyes ; yet you see , he was not afraid of what any adversary could say against it , by writing it in a polemical discourse , in which we could be glad to see some of those famous legends , and seraphical notions , which your pulpit-entertainments consist so much of , especially where you are out of the reach of hereticks , and then we should judge which looks more like babling , and deceiving the giddy multitude . but , to let us see what men of reach and politicians you are , you have found out a strange fetch in his lordships discourse , viz. that all this , is , that they might not see the impurity of their own english-protestant church , even in its first rise under henry the eighth , and the people-cheating policies it was beholding to for its restauration under queen elizabeth , as may be seen in history . history is a large wood to bid us seek for these cheating policies in ; and if you had any other design , but meerly to shew your self a politician in this , that you can fortitèr calumniari , use your tongue manfully when reproaches are useful ; you would have produced some evidence so clear of them , as his lordship here insists on in reference to your church . but , as long as you converse only in generals , you will give us leave to think who those are which use to do so , viz. such grand politicians as your self . for the particulars of our reformation , we shall have occasion to vindicate them in another place , and therein shall easily manifest what an itch you had to calumniate here , though you were sure to smart for it afterwards . that which you call weakness of judgement , or want of charity in his lordship , will be found to lye at another door , by our making it appear , that what you call a groundless and impossible slander , is a real and undoubted truth . but when you tell us , that such railleries do not become one that would be esteemed a grave doctor of the english church , an alterius orbis patriarcha , as the antient primates of england have been call'd : i know not whether you discover more judgment or reading in it ; your judgement in calling that an unbecoming raillery , which is a great and seasonable truth ; your reading , in mistaking patriarcha for papa , or else you were willing to dissemble it , because then by the advantage of his title , he might be fitter to discover the artifices and designs of his fellow-pope . the laying open of which is certainly vastly different from sporting with all that can be serious on earth ( man's salvation ) as you most injuriously calumniate his lordship in your next words , in affirming so of him , when his only design was , to clear the way to mans salvation , by discovering the gins and traps which are laid in the way of silly men , by the pernicious subtilty of those of your party . the way being thus cleared , we come to the main question , viz. whether all points , defined by the church , are fundamental ; and here , because you tell us , his lordship is like one that provides for a retreat or a subterfuge , by cutting out a number of ambiguous distinctions ; you give us fair hopes what clear proceedings we may expect from you , who abhorr as much the clear stating of a question , as foxes do running in beaten roads . but , as well as you love them , you must be drawn out of your holes , which will be much for the advantage of truth , though very little for yours . to come therefore close to the business , that you may not think i seek subterfuges , or retreats , i shall wave all other acceptions of fundamentals , and take the question in your own sense , that is , for points necessary to salvation . the question then in controversie between us , is this ▪ whether the ground or reason why any thing is fundamental or necessary to salvation , be , because it is defined by the church to be so , and consequently , whether all points , defined by the church , be not fundamental or necessary to salvation ? for the occasion of this controversie was from the greek church , whether her errour , as to the procession from the son , be fundamental or no , i. e. such as excludes her from being a church , and consequently from salvation . the ground of your affirmation , is , because the church hath defined it to be so ; so that the ground and reason why any thing is supposed fundamental or necessary to salvation , must be the definition of the church : but for our better understanding your meaning , you distinguish of two waies , whereby points may be necessary to salvation ; the one absolutely , by reason of the matter they contain ; which , say you , is so fundamentally necessary in it self , that not only the disbelief of it , when propounded by the church , but the meer want of an express knowledge , and belief of it , will hinder salvation ; and those are such points , without the express belief whereof , no man can be saved , which divines call necessary necessitate medii ; others of this kind they call necessary necessitate praecepti , which all men are commanded to seek after , and expresly believe ; so that a culpable ignorance of them hinders salvation , although some may be saved with invincible ignorance of them . and all these are absolutely necessary to be expresly believed , either necessitate praecepti , or medii , in regard of the matter which they contain . but the rest of the points of faith are necessary to be believed necessitate praecepti , only conditionally , that is , to all such to whom they are sufficiently propounded , as defined by the church : which necessity proceeds not precisely from the material object , or matter contained in them ; but from the formal object of divine authority , declared to christians by the churches definition . whether therefore the points in question be necessary in the first manner or no , by reason of their precise matter ; yet if they be necessary , by reason of the divine authority , or formal ▪ object of divine revelation , sufficiently declared and propounded to us , they will be points fundamental , that is , necessary to salvation to be believed , as we have shewed fundamental must here be taken . these words of yours containing the full state of the question in your own terms , and being the substance of all you say on this controversie , i have recited at large ; that you may not complain , your meaning is mistaken in them . you assert then , that besides that necessity which ariseth from the matter of things to be believed , and from th● absolute command of god ; there is another necessity conditionally upon the churches definition , but , supposing that definition , the thing so propounded becomes as necessary to salvation , as what is necessary from the matter ; for in all hypothetical propositions , the supposition being in act , the matter becomes necessary . for , unless you speak of such a necessity , as becomes as universally obligatory , on supposition of the churches definition , as that which ariseth from the matter , or absolute command ; you are guilty of the greatest tergiversation , and perverting the state of the question . for , otherwise that cannot be said to be fundamental or necessary to salvation , in the sense of this question , which is not generally necessary to salvation to all christians . for no man was ever so silly , as to imagine , that the question of fundamentals , with a respect to whole churches , as it is here taken , can be understood in any other sense , than as the matter , call'd fundamental or necessary , must be equally fundamental and necessary to all persons . and that this must be your meaning , appears by the rise of the controversie , which concerns the whole greek church , which you exclude from being a church , because she erres fundamentally , and that she errres fundamentally , because the church hath defined it to be an errour . so that what the church determines as matter of faith , is as necessary to be believed in order to salvation , as that which is necessary from the matter , or from an absolute command . for , otherwise the greek church might not be in a fundamental errour , notwithstanding the churches definition : the ground of this errour being fundamental , not being derived from the matter , or absolute command , but from the churches definition . if therefore the denial of what the church defines , doth exclude from salvation ; the necessity and obligation must be equal to that which ariseth from the matter to be believed . and if the church defines any particulars to be explicitly believed as necessary to salvation , not only the not disbelieving them , but the not explicit believing them , will be as destructive to salvation , as if the matter of the things themselves were necessary ; or that it were absolutely commanded ; for in those cases you say , the not explicit believing is that which damns , and so on your principles it will do here , when the explicit belief is the thing defined by the church . this will be more plain by an instance . it is notoriously known , that at the shutting up of the council of trent , a confession of faith was drawn up , and confirmed by the bull of pius . a. d. . and that , ut unius & ejusdem fidei professio uniformitèr ab omnibus exhibeatur , that the profession of one and the same faith , may be made known to all , and declared uniformally by all . in which confession , after the enumeration of the articles contained in the ancient creed ; there are many others added concerning traditions , seven sacraments , the decrees of the council of trent , as to original sin and justification ; the sacrifice of the mass , transubstantiation , communion in one kind , purgatory , invocation of saints , worship of images , indulgences , the pope's supremacy , &c. all which are required to be believed with an equal assent to the former , as absolutely necessary to salvation , and necessary conditions of catholick communion , for thus it ends ; hanc veram catholicam fidem , extra quam nemo salvus esse potest , quam in praesenti sponte profiteor , & veraciter teneo , eandem integram & inviolatam usque ad extremum vitae spiritum , &c. this true catholick faith , without which none can be saved , which at present i profess , and truly hold , and will do whole and undefiled to my lives end , &c. judge you now , whether an equal explicit faith be not here required to the definitions of the church , as to the articles of the creed ; and if so , there must be an equal necessity , in order to salvation , of believing both of them , it being here so expresly declared , that these definitions are integral parts of that catholick faith , without which there is no salvation . and what could be more said of those things , whose matter or absolute precept do make them necessary ? this confession of faith therefore , gives us the truest state of the present question , in these particulars . . that the definitions of the church are to be believed , to be as necessary to salvation , as the articles of the ancient creed , without the belief of which no salvation is to be expected . . that the explicit belief of these definitions as necessary to salvation ▪ may be required in order to catholick communion , and that they are to be believed of all as such , because they are defined by the church . so that the question is not , what is so required by the churches definition , declared and propounded to us , that it ought not to be dis-believed without mortal and damnable sin , which unrepented destroyes salvation , as you stated it ; for this seems only to respect the faith of particular persons , who are to believe according as the proposition may be judged sufficient : but the true state of the question , is , whether any definitions of the church may be believed as necessary articles of faith ; and whether they may be imposed on others to be believed as such , so that they may be excluded catholick communion if they do not . for this is really the true state of the question , between your church , and ours , ever since the council of trent ; and as to it thus stated ( as it ought to be ) i do most readily joyn issue with you . for the clearing of which important question , on which the main cause of our being separated from your communion depends , these three things will be necessary to be exactly discussed . . what the grounds are on which any thing doth become necessary to salvation ? . whether any thing , whose matter is not necessary , and is not required by an absolute command , can by any means whatsoever afterwards become necessary ? . whether the church hath power by any proposition or definition to make any thing become necessary to salvation , and to be believed as such , which was not so before ? these three i suppose you cannot deny but will take in all that is considerable in this controversie . which i shall with the more care examine , because nothing tends more to the peace of the christian world , than a through and clear discussion of it ; and nothing causeth more the schisms and divisions of it , than the want of a right and due conception of it . . what the grounds are on which any thing doth become necessary to salvation ? for our better understanding of which , we must consider two things . . what things are necessary to the salvation of men as such , or considered in their single and private capacities ? . what things are necessary to be owned in order to salvation , by christian societies , or as the bonds and conditions of ecclesiastical communion ? the want of understanding this distinction of the necessity of things , hath caused most of the perplexities and confusion in this controversie of fundamentals . . what those things are which are necessary to the salvation of particular persons ? but that we make all as clear as possible , in a matter of so great intricacy , two things again must be inquired into . . what the ground is , why any thing becomes necessary to be believed in order to salvation ? . what the measure and extent is of those things which are to be believed by particular persons as necessary to salvation ? . what the ground or foundation is , on which things become necessary to be believed by particular persons ? and that which is the true ground of the necessity , why any thing is to be believed , is the proper ratio of a fundamental article . for , i suppose it a much clearer notion of fundamentals , to understand them , not as principles , from whence deductions may be drawn of theological truths ; but in regard of that immediate respect which they have to mens salvation . those things therefore which are necessary to be explicitly believed by particular persons , are fundamentals in order to their salvation . now all belief in this case supposing divine revelation , nothing can be imagined to be necessary to be believed , but what may be certainly known to be of divine revelation . but when we consider , that besides the general reason of believing what god hath revealed ; we must either suppose , that all things are of equal necessity , which are revealed in order to the general end of this revelation ; or , that some things therein contained , are expresly necessary to the end , and other things to be believed on the general account of faith , so far as they are known to be of divine revelation . now from hence ariseth a twofold necessity of things to be believed ; the first more general and large , the second more particular and absolute . the first depends upon the formal reason of faith ; the second , on the particular end of divine revelation . that which depends on the formal reason of that assent we call faith , is that which supposeth divine veracity , or the impossibility of gods deceiving us in any thing revealed by him ; now this extends to all things whatsoever , which are supposed by men to be of divine revelation . for , though men may mistake in the matter , yet the reason of assent holding , under that mistake , they are bound necessarily to believe whatever is supposed by them to be divine revelation . here lyes no difficulty in the ground of faith , but all the care is to be used in the search into the matters which are to be believed on the account of this revelation . but here we are to consider , that the only thing which is in general and absolutely necessary to salvation , is , the general act of faith , viz. believing whatever god reveals to be true , else god's veracity would be call'd in question ; but particular objects cannot be said , on this account , to be absolutely and universally necessary , but only so far as there are sufficient convictions , that those particulars are of divine revelation . and , the more general and extensive the means of conviction are , the more large and universal is the obligation to faith. as , that the scriptures contain in them the word of god , is a matter of more universal obligation , than particular things therein revealed ; because the belief of the one depends upon the acknowledgement of the other . and withall , supposing it believed , that the matters contained in scripture are of divine revelation ; yet all things are not equally clear to all capacities , that they are therein contained . which is a sufficient ground for us , to say , it was not god's intention , that all things contained in his word , should be believed with the same degree of necessity by all persons . and therefore , though the general reason of faith depends on gods veracity , yet the particular obligation to the belief of particular things , as revealed by god , depends on the means , whereby we may be assured , that such things are revealed by him : which means admitting of so great variety , as to the circumstances and capacities of particular persons , there can be no general rule set down what things are necessary to be believed by all particular persons . for , those who have greater means of knowledge , a larger capacity , and clearer proposal , are bound to believe more things explicitly , than those who want all these , or have a lower degree of them . in which case , it is an unreasonable thing to say , that such a one , who dis-believes any thing propounded to him as a matter of faith , doth presently call in question god's veracity ; for he may as firmly believe that as any in general , and yet may have ground to question whether god's veracity be at all concerned in that which is propounded to him as a matter of faith ; because he sees no reason to believe that this was ever revealed by god. and , by this , a clear answer is given to that question , which you propose : whether all those truths which are sufficiently proposed to any christian , as defined by the church for matter of faith , can be dis-believed by such a christian , without mortal and damnable sin , which unrepented destroyes salvation ? to which the answer is easie upon the grounds here assigned : for this question concerning particular persons , and particular objects of faith , the resolution of it doth depend upon the sufficiency of the means , to convince such a person , that whatever is propounded as defined by the church for a matter of faith , is certainly and truly so . for to instance in any one of those new articles of faith , transubstantiation , or the pope's supremacy , &c. you tell me , these are necessary to be believed , or at least cannot be dis-believed without sin ( which is all one in this case , supposing clear conviction , for then what cannot be dis-believed without sin , must be explicitly believed . ) i desire to know the grounds why they may not ? you tell me , these are truths which are sufficiently proposed to me , as defined by the church for matters of faith. i deny the churches proposition to be sufficient to convince me , that these are matters of faith ; for i understand not what power your church hath to define any thing for matter of faith : if i granted that , i must understand what you mean by sufficient proposition ; whether that your church hath so defined them , or that she hath power so to define them ; and because i am heartily willing to believe any thing that i have reason to believe is a matter of faith ; certainly it can be no sin in me , not to believe that which i can see no ground at all to believe , either in it self , or because of your churches definition . and all this while , i have as high thoughts of god's veracity , as you can have , and it may be higher ; because i interest it not in the false and contradictory definitions of your church . if therefore you will prove it to be a damnable sin not to believe whatever is proposed by your church for a matter of faith , you must first prove , that there is as universal an obligation to believe whatever is sufficiently proposed as defined by the church for matter of faith , as there is to assent to whatever god reveals as true . and when you have done this , i will give you leave to state the question as you do : for then you would offer something to the proof of it , which now you do not . the substance then of what concerns the obligation to faith , as to particular objects , on the account of diuine revelation , lyes in the means of conviction concerning those particular objects being divinely revealed , which being various , the degrees of assent must be various too : but yet so , that the more men are negligent of the means of conviction , the more culpable their unbelief is ; but where men use all moral diligence to understand what is revealed , and what not , if they cannot be convinced , that some particular thing is of divine revelation ; it is hard to prove them guilty of mortal and damnable sin , without first proving , that god absolutely requires from men an assent to that , which it is impossible in their circumstances they should believe . and this is the first sort of things necessary to be believed by particular persons ; such as are believed on the general account of god's veracity in revealing them . but because there must be a more particular reason assigned of any such intention in god to reveal his mind to the world , viz. some peculiar end which he had in it ; therefore a further degree of the necessity of things to be believed , must be enquired after , viz. such as have an immediate and necessary respect to the prosecution of that end . now the only end assignable of that great expression of divine goodness , in declaring to man the will of god , is the eternal welfare and happiness of mankind , for nothing else can be imagined suitable and proportionable to the wisdom and goodness of god ; besides that , this is expresly mentioned in scripture as god's great end in it . now this being the great end of divine revelation , the necessity of things to be believed absolutely and in themselves , must be taken from the reference or respect which they have to the attainment of this end . and , although the distinction be commonly received , of necessity of the means , and of the command , as importing a different kind of necessity , yet in the sense i here take necessity in , the members of that distinction do to me seem coincident . for i cannot see any reason to believe that god should make the belief of any thing necessary , by an absolute command , but what hath an immediate tendency by way of means , for the attainment of this end : for otherwise , that which is call'd the necessity of precept , falls under the former degree of necessity , viz. that which is to be believed on the general account of divine revelation . and , although these things which are necessary , as means , are to be believed on the same formal reason of faith ; yet since god had a different end in the revelation of these from the other , therefore there is a necessity of putting a difference between them . for , supposing god to have such a design to bring the souls of men to happiness ; in order to this end , some means must be necessary , and these must consequently be revealed to men , because they are so necessary in order to such an end : now it is apparent , all things contained in scripture , are not of that nature ; some being at so great a remove from this end , that the only reason of believing them , is , because they are contained in that book , which we have the greatest reason to believe , contains nothing false in it . now the only way whereby we may judge of the nature of these things , is , from the consideration of what is made the most necessary condition in order to happiness ; and the way by which we may come to it . and nothing being more evident , than that the gospel contains in it a covenant of grace , or the conditions on which our salvation depends ; whatever is necessary in order to our performance of the conditions required of us , must be necessary to be believed by all . the gospel therefore tendring happiness upon the conditions of our believing in christ , and walking in him ; these two things are indispensably necessary to salvation ( where the gospel is known , for we have no reason to enquire into the method of god's proceeding with others ) an hearty assent to the doctrine of christ , and a conscientious walking according to the precepts of it . but to undertake to define what parts of that doctrine are necessary to salvation , and what not , seems to me wholly unnecessary ; because the assent to the doctrine of christ , as revealed from god , must necessarily carry in it so much as is sufficient in order to salvation . whatever therefore is necessary to a spiritual life , is necessary absolutely to salvation , and no more ; but what , and how much that is , must be gathered by every one as to himself from scripture ; but is impossible to be defined by others , as to all persons . but in all faith towards god , and in our lord jesus christ ; and repentance from dead works , are absolutely and indispensably necessary to salvation , which imply in them , both an universal readiness of mind to believe and obey god in all things : and by this we see , what the rule and measure of the necessity of things to be believed is , as to particular persons ; which lyes in these things . . whatever god hath revealed , is undoubtedly and infallibly true . . whatever appears to me , upon sufficient enquiry , to be revealed by god , i am bound to believe it by virtue of god's veracity . . all things not equally appearing to all persons to be revealed of god , the same measure of necessity cannot be extended to all persons . . an universal assent to the will of god , and universal obedience to it , are absolutely and indispensably necessary to all persons , to whom god's word is revealed . thus much may suffice concerning what is necessary to be believed by particular persons , considered as such . but this controversie never need break christian societies in that sense , but the great difficulty lyes in the other part of it , which is most commonly strangely confounded with the former , viz. what things are necessary to be owned , in order to church-societies , or ecclesiastical communion ? for which , we must consider , that the combination of christian societies , o● that which we call the catholick church , doth subsist upon the belief of what is necessary to salvation . for the very notion of a christian church doth imply the belief of all those things , which are necessary in order to the end of christian religion , which is mens eternal happiness . from whence three things must be taken notice of . . that the very being of a church , doth suppose the necessity of what is required to be believed in order to salvation . for else there could not be such a thing as a church imagined , which is only a combination of men together , upon the belief of such a doctrine as necessary to salvation ; and for the performance of those acts of worship which are suitable thereto : therefore to assert the church to have power to make things necessary to salvation , is not only absurd , but destructive to the being of that church ▪ for when it offer'd to define any thing to be necessary , which was not so before , was it a church or no ? if it was a church , it believed all things necessary ; if it believed all things necessary , before it defined ; how comes it to make more things necessary by its definition ? but of this more afterwards . . whatever church owns those things which are antecedently necessary to the being of a church , cannot so long cease to be a true church . because it retains that which is the foundation of the being of the catholick church . here we must distinguish those things in the catholick church , which give its being , from those things which are the proper acts of it , as the catholick church . as to this latter , the solemn worship of god in the way prescribed by him , is necessary ; in order to which there must be supposed lawful officers set in the church , and sacraments duly administred : but these , i say , are rather the exercise of the communion of the catholick church , than that which gives its being , which is , the belief of that religion whereon its subsistence and vnity depends ; and as long as a church retains this , it keeps its being , though the integrity and perfection of it depends upon the due exercise of all acts of communion in it . . the vnion of the catholick church depends upon the agreement of it , in making the foundations of its being , to be the grounds of its communion . for the vnity being intended to preserve the being , there can be no reason given , why the bonds of vnion should extend beyond the foundation of its being , which is , the owning the things necessary to the salvation of all . from whence it necessarily follows , that whatsoever church imposeth the belief of other things as necessary to salvation , which were not so antecedently necessary to the being of the catholick church , doth , as much as in it lyes , break the vnity of it ; and those churches , who desire to preserve its vnity , are bound thereby not to have communion with it so long as it doth so . of what great consequence these principles are to the true understanding the distance between our church and yours , if you see not now , you may feel afterwards . these things being premised , i come to that which is the main subject of the present dispute , which is , what those things are which ought to be owned by all christian-societies as necessary to salvation , on which the being of the catholick church depends . if we can find any sure footing for the definition of these , we shall thereby find what the necessary conditions of ecclesiastical communion are , and consequently where the proper cause of schism lyes in transgressing those bounds , and what foundations may be laid for the peace of the christian world . which being of so vast importance , would require a larger discussion , than this place will admit of : but so far as is pertinent to our present subject , i shall enquire into it ; and give an account of my thoughts , in these propositions . . nothing ought to be owned as necessary to salvation by christian-societies , but such things , which , by the judgement of all those societies , are antecedently necessary to the being of the catholick church . for , no reason can be assigned ( as i said before ) why the bonds of union should be extended beyond that which is the churches foundation ; neither can there any reason be given why any thing else should be judged necessary to the churches communion , but what all those churches ( who do not manifestly dissent from the catholick church of the first ages ) are agreed in , as necessary to be believed by all ; this will be further explained afterwards . only i add here , when i speak of the necessary conditions of ecclesiastical communion , i speak of such things which must be owned as necessary articles of faith , and not of any other agreements for the churches peace . i deny not therefore , but that in case of great divisions in the christian world , and any national churches reforming it self , that church may declare its sense of those abuses in articles of religion , and require of men a subscription to them ; but then we are to consider , that there is a great deal of difference between the owning some propositions in order to peace , and the believing of them as necessary articles of faith. and this is clearly the state of the difference between the church of rome , and the church of england . the church of rome imposeth new articles of faith to be believed as necessary to salvation ; as appears by the formerly cited bull of pius . which articles contain in them the justification of those things which are most excepted against by other churches ; and by her imposing these as the conditions of her communion , she makes it necessary for other churches , who would preserve the vnity of the catholick church upon her true foundations , to forbear her communion . but the church of england makes no articles of faith , but such as have the testimony and approbation of the whole christian world of all ages , and are acknowledged to be such by rome it self , and in other things she requires subscription to them not as articles of faith , but as inferiour truths , which she expects a submission to , in order to her peace and tranquillity . so the late learned l. primate of ireland often expresseth the sense of the church of england , as to her thirty nine articles . neither doth the church of england , saith he , define any of these questions , as necessary to be believed , either necessitate medii , or necessitate praecepti , which is much less ; but only bindeth her sons , for peace sake , not to oppose them . and in another place more fully . we do not suffer any man to reject the thirty nine articles of the church of england at his pleasure ; yet neither do we look upon them as essentials of saving faith , or legacies of christ and his apostles : but in a mean , as pious opinions fitted for the preservation of vnity ; neither do we oblige any man to believe them , but only not to contradict them . by which we see , what a vast difference there is between those things which are required by the church of england , in order to peace ; and those which are imposed by the church of rome , as part of that faith , extra quam non est salus , without belief of which there is no salvation . in which she hath as much violated the vnity of the catholick church , as the church of england by her prudence and moderation hath studied to preserve it . . nothing ought to be imposed as a necessary article of faith to be believed by all , but what may be evidently propounded to all persons , as a thing which god did require the explicit belief of . it being impossible to make any thing appear a necessary article of faith , but what may not only be evidently proved to be revealed by god , but that god doth oblige all men to the belief of it in order to salvation . and therefore none of those things , whose obligation doth depend on variety of circumstances , ought in reason be made the bonds of that communion which cannot take notice of that variety as to mens conditions and capacities . there are many things in christian religion , which , whosoever believes the truth of it , cannot but easily discern to be necessary in order to the profession and practice of it , in most of which the common sense and reason of mankind is agreed . not only the existence of a deity , the clear discovery of the wisdom , goodness and power of god , with his providence over the world , and the immortality of souls , being therein most evidently revealed ; but , the way and manner of the restitution of mens souls by faith in jesus christ as our only saviour , and obedience to his commands , is so fully laid down in the clearest terms , that no rational man , who considers the nature of christian religion , but must assert the profession of all these things to be necessary to all such , who own christian religion to be true . but there are many other things in christian religion , which are neither so clearly revealed in the scriptures , nor unanimously assented to in any age of the christian church ; and , why any such things should be made the conditions of that communion in the catholick church , whose very being depends only on necessary things , would puzzle a philosopher to understand . as if none should be accounted mathematicians , but such as could square circles ; and none naturalists , but such as could demonstrate whether quantity were infinitely divisible or no : much so it is , if none should be accounted members of the catholick church , but such as own the truth and necessity of some at least as disputable points , as any in religion . let therefore any romanist tell me , whether the pope's supremacy be as clear in scripture , as that christ is saviour of the world ; whether purgatory be as plain as eternal life ; transubstantiation as evident , as that the eucharist ought to be administred ; whether invocation of saints be as manifest , as the adoration of god ; the doctrine of indulgences , as repentance from dead works ; and if there be so great a clearness in the revelation of the one , and so far from it as to the other ; let them give any just account why the belief of the one is made as necessary to salvation as the other is . certainly , such who take in things at least so disputable as all these are , and enforce the belief of them in order to their communion , cannot otherwise be thought but to have a design to exclude a great part of the christian world from their communion ; and , to do so , and then cry out of them as schismaticks , is the most unreasonable proceedings in the world . . nothing ought to be required as a necessary article of faith , but what hath been believed and received for such by the catholick church of all ages . for , since necessary articles of faith are supposed to be so antecedently to the being of the catholick church , since the catholick church doth suppose the continual acknowledgement of such things as are necessary to be believed , it is but just and reasonable to admit nothing as necessary , but what appears to have been so universally received . thence it is , that antiquity , vniversality , and consent , are so much insisted on by vincentius lerinensis , in order to the proving any thing to be a necessary article of faith. but the great difficulty of this lyes in finding out what was received for a necessary article of faith , and what was not by the catholick church ; which being a subject , as necessary , as seldom spoken to , i shall not leave it untouched , although i must premise , that rule to be much more useful in discovering what was not looked on as a necessary article of faith , than what was ; and therefore i begin with that first . . it is sufficient evidence , that was not looked on as a necessary article of faith , which was not admitted into the ancient creeds . whether all those declarations which were inserted in the enlargements of the apostolical creed , by the councils of nice and constantinople , and in that creed which goes under the name of athanasius , were really judged by the catholick church of all ages , to be necessary to salvation , is not here my business to enquire ; but there seems to be a great deal of reason for the negative , that what was not inserted in the ancient creeds , was not by them judged necessary to be believed by all christians . i know , it is said by some of your party , that the apostolical creed did only contain those articles which were necessary to be believed , in opposition to the present heresies which were then in the church . as though the necessity of believing in christians , came only by an antiperistasis of the opposition of hereticks ; and if there had been no hereticks to have denyed god's being the creatour , and christ's being the saviour ; it had not been necessary to have believed either of them so explicitly as now we do . but when we speak of all things necessary to be believed by all ; i mean not , that all circumstances of things contained in those creeds are necessary to be believed in order to salvation ; but , that all those things which were judged as necessary to be believed by all , were therein inserted , will appear to any one who either considers the expressions of the ancients concerning the creeds then in use ; or the primary reason why such summaries of faith were ever made in the christian church . the testimonies of the fathers to this purpose are so well known in this subject , that it were a needless task to repeat them , who so unanimously assert the sufficiency , unalterableness and perfection of that faith , which is contained in the creed ; making it , the summe of all necessary doctrines the foundation of the catholick faith and of the church , the first and sole confession of evangelical doctrine . of all which , and many more expressions to the same purpose , produced not only by our writers , but by yours too , no tolerable sense can be made , without asserting , that whatever was judged necessary to be believed by all , by the catholick church of that age they lived in , or before them , was therein contained . besides , what account can be given why any such summaries of faith should at all be made either by apostles , or apostolical persons ; but only for that end , that necessary articles of faith might be reduced into such a compass , as might become portable to the weakest capacities ? if the rise of creeds were ( as most probable it was ) from the things propounded , to the catechumens , to be believed in order to baptism , can we reasonably think , that any thing judged necessary to be believed , should be left out ? if the apostolical creed be a summary comprehension of that form of sound doctrine , which the apostles delivered to all christians at their first conversion ( as it is generally supposed ) either we must think the apostles unfaithful in their work , or the creed an unfaithful account of their doctrine , or that such things which were supposed universally necessary to be believed , are therein comprehended . which is sufficient for my purpose , that nothing ought to be looked on as a necessary article of faith , or was so esteemed by the catholick church , which is not contained in the ancient creeds . . nothing ought to be judged a necessary article of faith , but , what was universally believed by the catholick church , to be delivered as such by christ , or his apostles . so that it is not the judgement , but the testimony of the catholick church , which must be relyed on , and that testimony only , when universal , as delivering what was once infallibly delivered by christ , or his apostles . from whence it follows , that any one who will undertake to make out any thing as a necessary article of faith , by catholick tradition meerly , must do these things : . he must make it appear to be universally embraced at all times , and in all places , by such who were members of the catholick church . . that none ever opposed it , but he was presently disowned as no member of the catholick church , because opposing something necessary to salvation . . that it be delivered by all those writers of the church , who give an account of the faith of christians , or what was delivered by christ and his apostles to the church . . that it was not barely looked on as necessary to be believed by such as might be convinced it was of divine revelation , but that it was deliver'd with a necessity of its being explicitly believed by all . . that what is deliver'd by the consent of the writers of the catholick church , was undoubtedly the consent of the church of those ages . . that all those writers agree not only in the belief of the thing it self , but of the necessity of it to all christians . . that no writers or fathers of succeeding ages , can be supposed to alter in the belief either of the matters believed before , or the necessity of them . . that no oppositions of hereticks , or heats of contention , could make them judge any article so opposed , to be more necessary , than it was judged before that contention ; or they themselves would have judged it , had it not been so opposed . . that when they affirm many traditions to be apostolical , which yet varied in several churches , they could not affirm any doctrine to be apostolical , which they were not universally agreed in . . that when they so plainly assert the sufficiency of the scriptures as a rule of faith , they did yet believe something necessary to salvation , which was not contained therein . when you , or any one else , will undertake to make good these conditions ; i shall then begin to believe , that something may be made appear to be a necessary article of faith , which is not clearly revealed in scripture , but not before : but till then , this negative will suffice , that nothing ought to be embraced , as the judgement of the church concerning a necessary article of faith , but what appears to be clearly revealed in scriture , and universally embraced by the catholick church of all ages . . nothing ought to be looked on as a necessary article of faith , by the judgement of the catholick church , the denyal of which was not universally opposed , and condemned as heresie . for otherwise the catholick church , was very little sensible of the honour of christian faith , if it suffered dissenters in necessary things , without putting a mark of dishonour upon them . therefore we may conclude , that whatever was patiently born with in such as dissented from the generality of christians , especially , if considerable persons in the church were the authors or fomenters of such opinions , however true the contrary doctrine was supposed to be , yet it was not supposed necessary , because then the opposers would have been condemned of heresie , by some open act of the catholick church . but if , beyond these negatives , we would enquire what was positively believed as necessary to salvation , by the catholick church ; we shall hardly find any better way , than by the articles of the ancient creeds , and the universal opposition of any new doctrine on its firsts appearance , and the condemning the broachers of it for heresie in oecumenical councils , with the continual disapprobation of those doctrines by the christian churches of all ages . as is clear in the cases of arrius and pelagius . for it seems very reasonable to judge , that since the necessary articles of faith were all delivered by the apostles to the catholick church , since the foundation of that church lyes in the belief of those things , which are necessary , that nothing should be delivered contrary to any necessary article of faith but the church , by some evident act , must declare its dislike of it , and its resolution thereby to adhere to that necessary doctrine , which was once delivered to the saints . and withall , it seems reasonable , that because art and subtilty may be used by such who seek to pervert the catholick doctrine , and to wrest the plain places of scripture , which deliver it , so far from their proper meaning , that very few ordinary capacities may be able to clear themselves of such mists as are cast before their eyes ; the sense of the catholick church in succeeding ages , may be a very useful way for us to embrace the true sense of scripture , especially in the great articles of the christian faith. as for instance , in the doctrine of the deity of christ , or the trinity ; though the subtilty of such modern hereticks , who oppose either of these , may so far prevail on persons , either not of sufficient judgement , or not sufficiently versed in the scriptures , as at present to make them acknowledge the places are not so clear as they imagined them to be ; yet they being alwaies otherwise interpreted by the catholick church , or the christian societies of all ages , layes this potent prejudice against all such attempts , as not to believe such interpretations true , till they give a just account , why , if the belief of these doctrines were not necessary , the christians of all ages from the apostles times , did so unanimously agree in them , that when any began first to oppose them , they were declared and condemned for hereticks for their pains . so that the church of england doth very piously declare her consent with the ancient catholick church , in not admitting any thing to be delivered as the sense of scripture , which is contrary to the consent of the catholick church in the four first ages . not as though the sense of the catholick church were pretended to be any infallible rule of interpreting scripture in all things which concern the rule of faith ; but that it is a sufficient prescription against any thing which can be alledged out of scripture , that if it appear contrary to the sense of the catholick church from the beginning , it ought not to be looked on as the true meaning of the scripture . all this security is built upon this strong presumption , that nothing contrary to the necessary articles of faith , should he held by the catholick church , whose very being depends upon the belief of those things which are necessary to salvation . as long therefore as the church might appear to be truly catholick by those correspondencies which were maintained between the several parts of it , that what was refused by one , was so by all ; so long this unanimous and uncontradicted sense of the catholick church , ought to have a great sway upon the minds of such who yet profess themselves members of the catholick church . from whence it follows , that such doctrines may well be judged destructive to the rule of faith , which were so unanimously condemned by the catholick church within that time . and thus much may suffice for the first inquiry , viz. what things are to be esteemed necessary , either in order to salvation , or in order to ecclesiastical communion . . whether any thing which was not necessary to salvation , may by any means whatsoever afterwards become necessary , so that the not believing it becomes damnable , and unrepented destroyes salvation ? we suppose the question to proceed on such things as could not antecedently to such an act whereby they now become necessary , be esteemed to be so , either from the matter , or from any express command . for you in terms assert a necessity of believing distinct from the matter , and absolute command , and hath the churches definition for its formal object , which makes the necessity of our faith continually to depend upon the churches definition ; but this strange kind of ambulatory faith , i shall now shew to be repugnant , to the design of christ and his apostles , in making known christian religion , and to all evidence of reason , and directly contrary to the plain and uncontradicted sense of the primitive and catholick church . . it is contrary to the design of christ and his apostles , in making known the christian religion to the world . for , if the design of christ was to declare whatever was necessary to the salvation of mankind , if the apostles were sent abroad for this very end , then either they were very unfaithful in discharge of their trust , or else they taught all things necessary for their salvation ; and , if they did so , how can any thing become necessary , which they did never teach ? was it not the great promise concerning the messias , that at his coming , the earth should be full of the knowledge of the lord , as the waters cover the sea ; that then they shall all be taught of god ? was not this the just expectation of the people concerning him , that when he came he would tell them all things ? doth not he tell his disciples , that all things i have heard of my father , i have made known unto you ? and , for all this , is there something still remaining necessary to salvation , which neither he , nor his disciples , did ever make known to the world ? doth not he promise life and salvation to all such as believe and obey his doctrine ? and can any thing be necessary for eternal life , which he never declared ? or did he only promise it to the men of that age and generation , and leave others to the mercy of the churches definitions ? if this be so , we have sad cause to lament our condition , upon whom these heavy loyns of the church are fallen : how happy had we been , if we had lived in christs , or the apostles times ; for then we might have been saved , though we had never believed the pope's supremacy , or transubstantiation , or invocation of saints , or worshipping images ; but now the case is altered ; these milstones are now hung about our necks , and how we shall swim to heaven with them , who knows ? how strangely mistaken was our saviour , when he said , blessed are they that have not seen , and yet have believed ; for , much more blessed certainly were they , who did see him , and believe in him ; for then he would undertake for their salvation ; but now , it seems , we are out of his reach , and turned over to the merciless infallibility of the present church . when christ told his disciples , his yoke was easie , and burden light ; he little thought , what power he had left in the church to lay on so much load , as might cripple mens belief ; were it not for a good reserve in a corner , call'd implicit faith. when he sent the apostles to teach all that he commanded them , he must be understood so , that the church hath power to teach more if she pleases ; and though the apostles , poor men , were bound up by this commission , and s. peter himself too , yet his infallible successors have a paramount priviledge beyond them all . though the spirit was promised to the apostles , to lead them into all truth , yet there must be no incongruity , in saying , they understood not some necessary truths ( for how should they , when never revealed ) as transubstantiation , supremacy , &c. because , though they never dreamt of such things , yet the infallible church hath done it since for them ; and , to say truth , though the apostles names were put into the promise , yet they were but feoffees in trust for the church , and the benefit comes to the church by them . for they were only tutors to the church in its minority , teaching it some poor rudiments of christ and heaven , of faith and obedience , &c. but the great and divine mysteries of the seven sacraments , indulgences , worship of images , sacrifice of the mass , &c. were not fit to be made known till the church were at age her self , and knew how to declare her own mind . when s. paul speaks so much of the great mysteries hidden from ages and generations , but now made known , it must be understood with a reference to those silly people who lived in that age ; but there were greater mysteries than these , which neither christ , nor any of his apostles were ever acquainted with , as purgatory , and those before mentioned ; for these were reserved as the churches portion , when her infallibility-ship should come to age. s. paul , honest man , spake as he thought , when he told not the common people , but the bishops of the church , that he had not shunned to declare unto them all the counsel of god ; but if he had lived to our age , he would have heard of this mistake with both ears ; and if he had not sworn the contrary , he must have been contented to have been call'd schismatick and heretick a thousand times over . these are all the just and rare consequences of your churches blessed infallibility , and power of defining things necessary , which were not so in christ , or his apostles times . but , the greatest knack of all is yet behind ; for men are bound to believe all the doctrines of your church to be apostolical , and yet that your church hath power to make things necessary to be believed , which were not so in the apostolical times . yes , say you , they were doctrines then , but not so necessary as now , because they had not the churches definition . it seems , at last , the apostles knew them , but did not understand the worth of them ; else , no doubt , they were such charitable souls , they would have declared them to the world . blessed s. paul , who was continually employed in teaching and instructing men in the way to salvation , could he have held back any thing that had tended to it , when he sayes , he kept back nothing that was profitable to them , but shewed them , and taught them publickly , and from house to house , testifying to the jews , and also to the greeks , repentance towards god , and faith in our lord jesus christ : what , not one word of the necessary points all this while ? nothing of the church of rome , nor christ's vicar on earth , and his infallibility ? how slily and cunningly did s. paul , and the rest of the apostles carrie it , if they had believed these things ; never let one word drop from their mouths or pens concerning them ? and instead of that , speak so , and write so , that one that believes them honest , would swear they never heard of them . in what another kind of strain would s. paul have writ to the church of rome , if he had had but any inckling of the chair of infallibility , being placed there ? how soon would he have blotted out the whole . chapter of his epistle to the corinthians , if he had known his holiness his pleasure about serving god in an unknown tongue ? how well might he have spared saying , that a bishop should be the husband of one wife , if he had known de jure divino he must have none at all ? at what another rate would he have discoursed of the eucharist , had he believed transubstantiation , sacrifice of the mass , communion under one kind ? what course would he have taken with the schismatical corinthians , that were divided like other churches , if he had known the infallible judge of controversie ? if he had but understood the danger of reading scriptures , he might have spared his exhortations to the people of the word of god dwelling richly in them , and filled his epistles with pater nosters , and ave mary's , or given good directions about them . but he must be pardoned , he was ignorant of these things , as well as we : only s. paul never heard of them , and we do not believe them ; because neither he , nor his brethren ever revealed them to us , though they were the stewards of the mysteries of god ; and they tell us themselves , that it is requisite such should be faithful , which we cannot understand how they could be , if they knew these deep mysteries , but never discovered them that we can learn. but , if they knew them not , i pray from whence is it your church learns them ? by immediate inspiration ? no , as bold as you are , you dare not challenge that : but whence then come you to know them to be necessary ? infallibly forsooth : but whence comes this infallibility ? must there not be a peculiar revelation , to discover that to be necessary , which was never discovered to be so before ? but if discovered before , and declared before , the things were as necessary before your churches definition , as after ; and therefore your churches definition adds nothing of necessity to them . if neither discovered , nor declared , you must have particular revelation for them , and then work miracles , and we will believe you , but not otherwise ; but , before you do it , consider what s. paul hath said concerning an angel from heaven preaching another gospel , let him be accursed ; and what can be more preaching another gospel , than making other things necessary to salvation , than christ or his apostles did ; and think then what your church hath deserved for all her definitions concerning articles of faith , or things necessary to be believed in order to salvation . but yet further you say , that these things were declared by the apostles , but they need a further declaration now : and why so ? shew us the apostle's declaration , and it sufficeth us ; we shall not believe them one jot the more for your additional definition . and it is surely a sign , you did not think the apostles declaration sufficient , or else you would never pretend to new ones . perhaps you will tell us , it was to their age , but not to ours ? why not , as well as the other necessary articles of faith contained in scripture ? i know your answer is , we can know no necessary article of faith at all ; but from your church . so then , we have brought all into a narrow compass , and instead of new definitions of the church concerning necessary things , we can know nothing at all to be necessary to be believed , but from your church . this is high , but the higher it is , the better foundation it had need stand on , which we shall throughly search into ; in the controversie of the resolution of faith : to which we referr it , and return . if there were once a declaration , but still there needs another , what is become of that declaration ? was it lost in its passage down to us ? how then was that present church infallible , which lost a declaration in matter of faith ? was it necessary to be believed in the intermediate age or no ? if it was , then it was not lost , and then what need a new declaration ? if not , then a thing once necessary to salvation , may be not necessary to salvation , and become necessary to salvation again . but still we have cause to envy their happiness , who lived in the age when they might be saved without believing these things : for the case goes hard with us , for you tell us , unless we believe them necessary , we cannot be saved ; and our consciences tell us , that if we did profess to believe them necessary , when we do not , and cannot , we cannot be saved . what a case then were we in , if the pope were christ's vicar in heaven , as he pretends to be on earth ; but it is our comfort , he is neither so , nor so . thus we see what repugnancy there is both to scirpture and reason in this strange doctrine of your churches definitions , making things necessary to salvation , which were not so before . i should now proceed to shew how repugnant this doctrine is to the unanimous consent of antiquity ; but i find my self prevented in that , by the late writings of one of your own communion ; and if you will believe him in his epistle dedicatory ( which i much question ) the present popes most humble servant , our countryman mr. thomas white . whose whole book , call'd his tabulae suffragiales , is purposely designed against this fond and absurd opinion ; nay , he goes so high , as to assert the opinion of the pope's personal infallibility , not only to be heretical , but archi-heretical ; and that the propagating of this doctrine is in its kind a most grievous sin . it cannot but much rejoyce us to see , that men of wit and parts begin to discover the intolerable arrogance of such pretences , and that such men as d. holden , and mr. white , are in many things come so near the protestant principles ; and that since they quit the plea of infallibility , and relye on vniversal tradition , we are in hopes that the same reason and ingenuity which carried these persons thus far , will carry others , who go on the same principles , so much farther , as to see , how impossible it is to make good the points in controversie between us , upon the principle of vniversal tradition . which the bigots of your church are sufficiently sensible of , and therefore , like the man at athens , when your hands are cut off , you are resolved to hold this infallibility with your teeth : and so that gentleman finds by the proceedings of the court of rome against him for that and his other pieces . but , this should not have been taken notice of , lest we should seem to see ( as who doth not , that is not stark blind ? ) what growing divisions and animosities there are among your selves both at home and in foreign parts ; and yet all this while the poor silly people must be told , that there is nothing but division out of your church , and nothing but harmony and musick in it , but such as is made of discords . and that about this present controversie ; for the forenamed gentleman in his epistle to the present pope , tells him plainly , that it is found true by frequent experience , that there is no defending the catholick faith against the subtilties of his heretical countrymen , without the principles of that book , which was condemned at rome . and what those principles are , we may easily see by this book , which is writ in defence of the former . wherein he largely proves , that the church hath no power to make new articles of faith , which he proves both from scripture , reason and authority ; this last , is that i shall referr the reader to him for : for in his second table , as he calls it , he proves from the testimonies of origen , basil , chrysostom , cyril , irenaeus , tertullian , pope stephen , hierom , theophylact , augustine , vincentius lerinensis , and several others ; nay , the testimonies , he sayes , to this purpose , are so many , that whole libraries must be transcribed to produce them all . and afterwards more largely proves , that the faith of the church lyes in a continued succession from the apostles , both from scripture and reason , and abundance of church-authorities in his , , and . tables : and , through the rest of his book , disproves the infallibility of councils and pope . and , can you think all this is answered by an index expurgatorius , or by publishing a false-latin order of the inquisition at rome , whereby his books are prohibited , and his opinions condemned as heretical , erronious in faith , rash , scandalous , seditious , and what not ? it seems then , it is grown at last de fide , that the pope is infallible , and never more like to do so , than in this age ; for the same person gives us this character of it in his purgation of himself , to the cardinals of the inquisition , saying , that their eminencies , by the unhappiness of the present age , in which knowledge is banished out of the schools , and the doctrines of faith and theological truths are judged by most voices ; fell , it seems , upon some ignorant and arrogant consultors ; who , hand over head , condemn those propositions , which , upon their oaths , they could not tell whether they were true or false . if these be your proceedings at rome , happy we that have nothing to do with such infallible ignorance : this is the age your religion were like to thrive in , if ignorance were as predominant elsewhere , as it seems it is at rome . but i leave this , and return . . the last thing is , whether the church hath power by any proposition or definition , to make any thing become necessary to salvation , and to be believed as such which was not so before ? but this is already answered by the foregoing discourse ; for if the necessity of the things to be believed , must be supposed antecedently to the churches being , if that which was not before necessary , cannot by any act whatsoever afterwards become necessary , then it unavoidably follows , that the church neither hath , nor can have any such power . other things which relate to this , we shall have occasion to discuss in following your steps : which , having thus far cleared this important controversie , i betake my self to . and we are highly obliged to you , for the rare divertisements you give us in your excellent way of managing controversies . had my lord of canterbury been living , what an excellent entertainment would your confutation of his book have afforded him ? but , since so pleasant a province is fallen to my share , i must learn to command my self in the management of it , and therefore , where you present us with any thing which deserves a serious answer , for truth and the causes sake , you shall be sure to have it . in the first place , you charge his lordship with a fallacy , and that is , because , when he was to speak of fundamentals , he did not speak of that which was not fundamental . but , say you , he turns the difficulty , which only proceeded upon a fundamentality or necessity , derived from the formal object , that is , from the divine authority revealing that point , to the material object , that is , to the importance of the matter contained in the point revealed ; which is a plain fallacy , in passing à sensu formali ad materialem . men seldom suspect those faults in others , which they find not strong inclinations to in themselves ; had you not been conscious of a notorious fallacy in this distinction of formal and material object , as here applyed by you ; you would never have suspected any such sophistry in his lordship's discourse . i pray consider what kind of fundamentals those are , which the question proceeds on , viz. such as are necessary to be owned as such by all churches , in order to their being true churches , as is plain by the rise of this controversie ; for mr. fisher was proving the greek church to be no true church , and , in order to that , proves , that she erred fundamentally , for which he makes vse of this medium ; that , whatever is defined by the church is fundamental . so that the whole process of the dispute lyes thus . twhat ever church is guilty of a fundamental errour , ceaseth to be a true church ; but the greek church is guilty of a fundamental errour ; ergo . the minor being denyed , he thus proves it : if whatever is defined by the church be fundamental , then the greek church is guilty of a fundamental errour , because she denyes something defined by the church ; but whatever is defined by the church is fundamental ; which is the thing his lordship denyes , and his adversary is bound to prove . so that any one who was not resolved to wink as hard as you do , might easily see , the state of the controversie doth not concern what things are fundamental , supposing men know them to be sufficiently propounded ; but what things are so necessary to be owned for fundamentals , that upon the denying them , a church ceaseth to be a true church . yet this mistake as gross and palpable , as it is , runs through your whole discourse of fundamentals , which , without it cannot hold together . if you will therefore prove , that , besides such things whose necessity ariseth from the matter , there are other from the formal object , which all churches are equally bound to believe , in order to their being true churches , you do something ; but not before . but we must still attend your motions , especially when they tend towards proofs , as yours do now . for , say you , now i shew ( the difficulty being understood , as it ought to be of the formal object , whereby points of faith are manifested to christians ) that all points defined by the church as matter of faith , are fundamental ; that is , necessary to salvation to be believed by all those to whom they are sufficiently propounded to be so defined by this argument . whosoever refuseth to believe any thing sufficiently propounded to him for a truth revealed from god , commits a sin damnable and destructive of salvation : but , whosoever refuses to believe any point sufficiently propounded to him for defined by the church as matter of faith , refuses to believe a thing sufficiently propounded to him for a truth revealed from god. ergo , whosoever refuses to believe any point sufficiently propounded to him for defined by the church as matter of faith , commits a sin damnable and destructive of salvation . before you proceed to the proof of your minor , several things must here be considered , that we may better understand your meaning , and know what it is you intend to prove . especially what you intend by sufficient proposition . do you mean such a proposition as carries evidence along with it , or not ? in which case the very understanding the terms , is sufficient proposition , as that , two and two make four ; but , i suppose , you mean not this , therefore it must be the sufficient proposition of something which wants natural evidence ; and therefore something else must be required , besides , the propounding the thing to make the proposition be said to be sufficient . for sufficiency relates to some end ; so that a sufficient proposition must be such a proposition as is sufficient for its end : now the end of the proposition of matters of faith , is , that they may be believed ; and therefore the sufficiency of the proposition lyes in the arguments or motives inducing men to believe . now the objects of faith being of a different nature , the sufficiency of the proposition must be taken from a respect to them : for in things which are so clearly revealed , as necessary to salvation , that none who acknowledge the scripture to be god's word , can doubt but such things are necessary ; in this case the sufficiency of the proposition lyes in the evidence of divine revelation , and the clearness of it to all understandings who consider it , and the reasons or motives of faith in that case , are the same with those which induce men to believe , that the scripture it self is from divine revelation . but , there being other things in scripture , which neither appear so clear , or so necessary to be believed by all , something else is required in order to a sufficient proposition of them , and in order to the making any of these things universally obligatory to christians on pain of damnation , for not believing them these things are necessary . . it must be much clearer than the thing which is propounded to be believed on the account of it ; for , to propound a thing to be believed by something at least as disputable as the matter it self , cannot certainly be call'd a sufficient proposition . . it must be antecedently proved to be a true and certain proposition , before any thing can be believed on the account of it . for , if men cannot see any reason to believe that there is any necessary connexion between that which you call a sufficient proposition , and any matter of faith ; they cannot be guilty of any sin at all in not believing what you think is sufficiently propounded . but , in this case , it is not your judgement , what proposition is sufficient that makes it so , but the reason of the thing , and the evidence that god hath appointed that way to reveal his will to men , and that what is so propounded is necessary to be believed . as for instance , suppose you were told by the greek church , that to believe the pope's supremacy , jure divino , were a damnable sin , and that whosoever did not believe this being sufficiently propounded to them as a matter of faith , as defined by the church , were guilty of a sin destructive to salvation , what answer would you return in this case ? would you not say , that the proposition , though judged sufficient by them , is not judged so by you ; and that they must first prove , that whatever their church defines as a matter of faith , is to be believed for such , before the other can be believed on the account of it . just the same answer we return to you ; prove first of all to us in a clear and evident manner , that god hath appointed the definition of your church , as the means whereby we may be infallibly assured , what is matter of faith , and what not ; and then we may grant , that what your church propounds as a matter of faith , is sufficiently propounded as a matter revealed from god , but not before . for , while i see no reason to believe the churches proposition to be sufficient , i have no reason to believe , that what she propoundes , as defined for matter of faith , is truly so : and , as long as i can see no reason to believe it , prove the disbelief of it to be a sin in me when you can . thus we see , how far from being evident that major of yours is , though you are pleased to tell us , it is so ; but we do not believe your defining it to be so , to be any matter of faith , unless we had better reason for it , than we have . for , say you , to refuse to believe god's revelation , is either to give god the lye , or to doubt whether he speak truth or no ? but , have you so little wit , as not to distinguish between not believing god's revelation , and not believing what is propounded for god's revelation ? must every one , who doth not believe every thing that is propounded for god's revelation , presently give god the lye , and doubt whether he speak truth or no ? and are not you then guilty of that fault every time a quaker or enthusiast tells you , that the spirit of god within him told him this and that ? but you said , sufficiently propounded . but the question is , what sufficient proposition is , and who must be judge whether the proposition be sufficient or no , you , or the conscience of the person to whom the thing is proposed to be believed ? if any one indeed that judgeth a proposition sufficient , do notwithstanding question the truth of it , he doth interpretatively call god's veracity into question ; but not he certainly who thinks not god's veracity at all concerned in that which you call a sufficient proposition , but he judgeth not to be so . let us now see , how you prove your assumption , which is very fairly done from a supposition which his lordship denies ; which is , that general councils cannot erre . but , say you , he adds , that though he should grant it , yet this cannot down with him , that all points even so defined were fundamentals . i grant , those are his words , and his reasons follow them . for , deductions are not prime and native principles ; nor are superstructures , foundations . that which is a foundation for all , cannot be one and another to different christians , in regard of it self ; for then it could be no common rule for any , nor could the souls of men rest upon a shaking foundation . no , if it be a true foundation , it must be common to all , and firm under all ; in which sense the articles of christian faith are fundamental . what now do you prove to destroy this ? you very strenuously prove , that if men believe , a general council cannot erre , they believe it cannot erre so far , and no further than it cannot erre . but , if you mean any thing further , your meaning is better than your proof : for when you would prove that to disbelieve the churches definition , is to dis-believe god's revelation ; and in order to that confound the church and general councils together , and from the general council's not erring , inferr the former proposition , because , what is testified by the church , is testified by an authority that cannot erre ; you do not consider , that all this while you prove nothing against his lordship , unless you first prove , that whatever is testified to be revealed from god , is presently fundamental to all churches and christians , which his lordship utterly denies , by distinguishing even things which may be testified to be revealed from god , into such things as are common to all christians to be believed by them , and such things as vary according to the different respects of christians . but yet further , i add , that taking fundamentals in your sense , you prove not the thing you intended , but only to such as do acknowledge , and as far as they do acknowledge , that general councils cannot erre . for , they who acknowledge them infallible only in fundamentals , do not judge any thing fundamental by their decision , but judge their decisions infallible , so long as they hold to fundamentals ; and so ( for all that i can see ) leave themselves judges , when general councils are infallible , and when not : and therefore if they go about to testifie any thing as revealed from god , which is not fundamental , they do not believe that their testimony cannot erre , and so are not bound to believe that it is from god. they who believe general councils absolutely infallible , i do verily think do believe general councils infallible in all they say ; for that is the substance of all you say . but , what that is to those who neither do , nor can see any reason to believe them infallible in all they say or testifie as revealed from god , i neither do , nor can possibly understand . and , if you hope such kind of arguments can satisfie your ingenuous reader , you suppose him a good-natur'd man in the greek sense of the phrase . but all of a sudden , we find you in a very generous strain , and are contented to take fundamentals for fundamentals ( which is a huge concession , and his lordship , were he living , would take it for a singular favour from you . ) yet to deal freely with the bishop ( say you ) even taking fundamentals in a general way ( as it ought to be taken only here ) for a thing belonging to the foundation of religion ( and it is a strange fundamental which hath no respect to the foundation , but they who build downwards , must have their foundations on tops of their houses ) it is also manifest , that all points defined by the church are fundamental , by reason of that formal object , or infallible authority , propounding them , though not alwaies by reason of the matter which they contain . the main proof of which lyes in this , that he who doth not believe the church infallible , can believe nothing at all infallibly , and therefore no fundamental of religion ; but , if he believe any thing upon the churches infallibility , he must believe all things on the same account of her infallibility , and therefore must believe all equally ; and so , whatever is propounded by the church , is to be believed as fundamental . this you cannot deny to be the force and strength of your verbose , and confused way of arguing . and therefore i give you a short answer , that i utterly deny the infallibility of any church , to be in any thing the foundation of divine and infallible faith ; as you will find it abundantly proved in the proper place for it , in the controversie of the resolution of faith. where it will be largely discussed , in what sense faith may be said to be divine and infallible , what the proper grounds and reasons of our believing are , and how much you impose upon the world , in pretending that the resolution of faith , is into the catholick churches infallibility ; whereby it will appear to be far from a fundamental errour , not to believe on the churches infallibility , and that he who denies it , will have no reason to call into question the canon of scripture , or the foundations of all religion . but , that you rather , by these absurd and unreasonable pretences of yours , have done your utmost to shake the true foundations of religion , and advance nothing but sceptiscism , not to say atheism in the world . these things i take upon me to make good in their proper place , and therefore shall not enter the discussion of them here : but since , this is the main , and , in truth , the only foundation of your doctrine of fundamentals , the vanity , falshood and absurdity of it , cannot be sufficiently understood , till we have gone through the account of the grounds of faith. if s. augustine make some no catholick christians , for holding obstinately some things of no great moment in his book of heresies ; it was , because by catholick christians he understood all such , and only such , as were the members of the sound and orthodox church , in opposition to all kind of unnecessary separation from it upon matters of small moment , and not because he believed the churches infallibility , in defining all matters of faith ; and that all such things were so defined , which men are call'd hereticks for denying of : unless you will suppose , it was ever infallibly defined , that there were no antipodes ; for some were accounted hereticks for believing them ; and that by such whom you account greater than s. austin . but , for s. austin , how far it was from his meaning , to have all those accounted fundamental errours , which he recounts in his book of heresies , appears not only from the multitude of particulars mentioned in it , which no one in his senses can acknowledge fundamental , or declared by the church as necessary to be believed by all , but from his declared scope and design in the preface to that book , wherein it appears , he was desired not only to write the greater errours concerning faith , the trinity , baptism , repentance , christ , the resurrection , the old and new testament , sed omnia omnino quibus à veritate dissentiunt , i. e. all kind of errours whatsoever ; and do you think that there could then be no errour , but it must be against some thing then defined by the church as necessary to salvation ? if not , then all truths were then defined by the church , and consequently there could be no new definitions ever since ; if there might , then those errours mentioned by s. austin , were not about matters necessary to be believed ; and so s. austin's book of heresies makes nothing for you ; but very much against you , considering that in all that black list of hereticks , there are none brought in for denying those grand fundamentals of your church , the pope's supremacy , your churches infallibility , nor any of that new brood of necessary articles , which were so prudently hatcht by the council of trent . but if s. austin do you no good , you hope s. gregory nazianzen may , because he saith , that nothing can be more perillous than those hereticks , who with a drop of poison do infect our lord 's sincere faith. therefore all things defined by the church are fundamental . what an excellent art this logick is , that can fetch out of things that which was never in them ! what a rare consequence is this , if heresie be dangerous , then , whatever is defined by the church , is fundamental : but it may be , the strength lyes in the drop of poison , as though s. gregory thought a drop of poison as dangerous as a whole dose of it . but , were i your physitian , instead of the least drop of poison , i should prescribe you good store of hellebore , and should hope to see the effect of it , in making better consequences than these are . but to see yet further , the strange effects that logick hath upon some men ; for , say you , in the prosecution of your proof , that all things defined by the church are fundamental . hence it is , that christ our saviour saith , matth. . . if he will not hear the church , let him be to thee as a heathen and a publican . the argument in form runs thus ; whosoever deserves excommunication , is guilty of a fundamental errour ; but he that will not hear the church , deserves excommunication ; ergo , or else there may be more in it than so . for , no doubt , the heathens and publicans as such , were guilty of fundamental errours ; therefore they who will not hear the church , are guilty of as fundamental errours as heathens and publicans . but , before you urge us any more with this dreadful argument , i pray tell us , what that church is which our saviour speaks of ; what the cases are , wherein the church is to be heard ; what the full importance is , of being as a heathen and publican ; and you must prove this church to be understood in your sense of the catholick church , and that this church hath hereby power to define matters of faith , and that none can possibly in any other sense be accounted as heathens and publicans , but as guilty of as fundamental errours as they were . your next objection concerning giving god and the church the lye , and preferring and opposing a man's private judgement and will before and against the judgement and will of god and the church , if men deny or doubt of any thing made known by the church to be a truth revealed by god ; signifies nothing at all , unless it be antecedently proved , that the church can never erre in declaring any thing to be a truth revealed by god , which none , who know what you mean by the church , will easily assent to , till you have attempted a further proof of it , than yet we find . and , although the questioning divine veracity be destructive to that which you call supernatural faith , yet i hope it is possible to believe god to be true , and yet that all men are lyars , or that there is no such inseparable connexion between god's veracity , and the present declarations of any church , but that one may heartily assent to the former , and yet question the truth of the latter . if you think otherwise , shew your pity to the weakness of our understandings , by something that may look like a proof of it , which we are still much to seek for . but , your greatest strength , like sampson's , seems to lye there where one would least suspect it , viz. in athanasius his creed . for thus you go on . wherefore it is said in s. athanasius his creed ( which is approved in the thirty nine articles of the pretended english church ) that , whosoever will be saved , it is necessary that he hold the catholick faith — which unless every one hold whole and inviolate , without doubt he shall perish for ever : neither can the bishop reply , that all points expressed therein are fundamental in his sense ; for ( to omit the article of our saviours descent into hell ) he mentions expresly the procession of the holy ghost from the father and the son , which his lordship hath denyed to be a fundamental point , as we saw in the former chapter . but , the better to comprehend the force of this argument , we must first consider what it is you intend to prove by it , and then in what way and manner you prove it from this creed . the matter which you are to prove , is , that all things defined by the church , are fundamental , i. e. in your sense necessary to salvation ; and , that the ground why such things , whose matter is not necessary , do become necessary , is , because the church declares them to be revealed by god ; now , in order to this , you insist on the creed commonly call'd athanasius his , wherein some things , acknowledged not to be fundamental in the matter , are yet said to be necessary to salvation , and that this is owned by the church of england . this is the substance of the argument , which being resolved into its parts , will consist of these propositions . . that some things owned not to be fundamental in the matter , are yet acknowledged in the creed of athanasius , to be necessary to salvation . . that the reason why these things do become necessary , is , because the church hath defined them to be so . . that this is acknowledged by the church of england . and therefore , by parity of reason , whatever is defined by the church , must be necessary to salvation . but every one of these propositions being ambiguous , the clear stating of them will be the best way of solving the difficulty , which seems to lye in the present argument . and the main ambiguity lyes in the meaning of that necessity to salvation , which is implied in the athanasian creed , as to the articles therein contained ; for , there being different grounds and reasons upon which things may be supposed necessary , there can be no just consequence made from the general owning a necessity of the belief of some things , to the making those things necessary to be believed upon one particular account of it . for the necessity of believing things to salvation , may arise from one of these three grounds . . the supposition , that the matter to be believed is in it self necessary this makes it necessary to all those persons who are of that perswasion ; and on this ground it is plain , that the main articles of the athanasian creed are generally supposed necessary , viz. those concerning the trinity in vnity , the incarnation , resurrection , and eternal life , &c. now these being supposed to be necessary from the matter , any church may own them under this degree of necessity , in that expression used in several places of the athanasian creed , whosoever will be saved , it is necessary that he hold the catholick faith — which catholick faith is , &c. but then we are to consider , that this is only a declaration of the sense of that church , what things she owns as necessary , and what not . and this declaration doth not oblige the conscience of particular persons any further , than as the articles of that church are required to be owned as the conditions of communion with her , i. e. where the degree of necessity is not declared , nor expresly owned by a church , but left in general terms ; no man is bound to believe the things judged as necessary , with any particular kind of necessity , exclusive of others , but only that the church in general may use that creed supposed necessary , and that the use of that creed is a lawful condition of that churches communion . . the belief of a thing may be supposed necessary , because of the clear conviction of mens understandings , that though the matters be not in themselves necessary , yet being revealed by god , they must be explicitly believed ; but then the necessity of this belief doth extend no further than the clearness of that conviction doth . as , suppose it inserted into a creed , that the article of the descent must be understood according to the sense of the scriptures , this doth oblige no man to any further necessity of belief of the sense of the article , then he is convinced , that it is the sense of the scriptures ; and the case is the same , when the article is expressed only in general terms , which are known to be capable of very different senses , when none of which are expressed , no particular sense can be said to be necessary to salvation , to particular persons , but only that sense in general , which all must agree in who own it , and the particulars are left to the convictions of mens understandings upon the use of the best means of satisfaction . so that he that believes fully that the meaning of this article from scripture , is , that christ's soul did locally descend to hell , it is necessary for him to believe so , upon such conviction ; but he that sees no more necessary to be believed by it , but that christ's soul was , during his body's lying in the grave , in a state of separation from it ; how can you prove it necessary to salvation for him to believe any more than this ? and the case is the same as to all modes of existence , and particular explications of articles in themselves owned , as of the different subsistencies in the trinity , the manner of the hypostatical vnion of the two natures in christ's person , supposing the doctrines themselves believed , what reason can there be to assert it necessary to salvavation to all persons , to believe them under such a sense , if the article may be it self believed without it , any further than as things under those explications , are manifested to such persons to be necessary to be believed . as leo . defined in the article of the holy ghost's procession from the son , to such , who , by reason of capacity and apprehension , could attain to the knowledge of it , it was necessary to be believed , but not by others ; as appears in our former discourse on that subject . therefore from hence we see another account , why things may become necessary to be believed and owned as such , besides the matter and the churches definition . these things may be said to be necessary to be believed by such , who believe the churches proposition to be sufficient , though it be not ; as , suppose any member of the greek church should believe their church infallible , it is necessary , for such a one to believe whatever is propounded by that church , though you suppose that judgement of his to be false in it self , because you say , the greek church is not infallible . so that from hence it appears , that the necessity arising from the churches definition , doth depend upon the conviction , that whatever the church defines , is necessary to be believed . and , where that is not received as an antecedent principle , the other cannot be supposed . by this opening the several grounds of necessity , your difficulty concerning the athanasian creed comes to nothing : for granting , that the church of england doth own and approve the creed , going under the name of athanasius , and supposing that her vse of the creed , doth extend to the owning of those expressions , which import the necessity of believing the things therein contained in order to salvation ; yet this doth not reach to your purpose , unless you prove that the church of england doth own that necessity purely on the account of the churches definition of those things which are not fundamental , which it is very unreasonable to imagine ; it being directly contrary to her sense in her nineteenth and twentieth articles . and thence , that supposed necessity of the belief of the articles of the athanasian creed , must , according to the sense of the church of england , be resolved either into the necessity of the matters , or into that necessity which supposeth clear convictions , that the things therein contained are of divine revelation . from hence then it cannot at all follow , because the church of england owns the creed of athanasius , therefore all things defined by the church are , eo nomine , necessary to salvation . other particulars concerning that creed , as to its antiquity and authority , we may have occasion afterwards more at large to discuss ; it sufficeth now , that nothing is thence produced pertinent to the present controversie . his lordship , in the progress of this discourse , takes away that slight and poor evasion , that the declaration of the church makes any thing fundamental , quoad nos , because that no respect to us can vary the foundation . and that the churches declaration can bind us only to peace and external obedience , where there is not express letter of scripture and sense agreed on : but it cannot make any thing fundamental to us , that is not so in its own nature . for , saith he , if the church can so add , that it can by a declaration make a thing to be fundamental in the faith that was not , then it can take a thing away from the foundation , and make it by declaring not to be fundamental , which all men grant no power of the church can do . for the power of adding any thing contrary , and of detracting any thing necessary , are alike forbidden , and alike denyed . now you say , that all this is satisfied by the foresaid distinction , of material and formal object ; and you desire the reader , to carry along with him this distinction of objectum materiale & formale , materia attestata ; & authoritas attestantis , and he will easily discover the fallacies of his lordship's discourse , in this main point of controversie , and solve all his difficulties supported by them . no doubt , an excellent amulet to preserve from the infection of reason ! but it is your great mishap , that where you commend it so much , it doth you so little service : for , let your distinction of formal and material object , be supposed as sound and good , as i have shewed , it in your sense , to be false and fallacious ; yet it doth not reach that part of his lordship's discourse , which you apply it to . for , still his reason is conclusive , though the necessity only be supposed to arise from the churches authority , yet if it be in the power of the church , to make any thing necessary which was not , why may it not be equally in her power to make something not necessary which was ? for , either the grounds of the necessity of things to salvation , doth depend on the doctrine of the gospel , as at first declared to the world , or it doth not . if it doth , then it is not in the churches power to make any thing necessary , which was not made necessary by it ; if it doth not , then the church may as well pretend to a power to make something not necessary , which was ; as to make something necessary , which was not . so that your distinction of formal and material object , signifies nothing at all here ; only this is observable , that you make the churches definition to be the formal object of faith here , which you very solemnly contradict afterwards . ( chap. . § . . ) and can any thing be more evident from this discourse of yours , than that you make the last resolution of faith , as to the necessity of things to be believed into the churches definition , as its formal object ? but this distinction with the grounds of it being removed in our former discourse , i shall ease my self and the reader of any further labour in examining what follows in this chapter , which depends wholly upon it ; or else run out into the churches infallibility , the infallible assent requisite to faith , the canon of scripture , and our certainty of it , or the authority of general councils ; all which shall be fully and particularly examined in their proper places . there being nothing said here , but what either hath been answered already , or will be more at large in a more convenient place . the only things remaining then in this chapter , which deserve a further discussion here , are the testimonies of scotus and s. austin , and the discourses which depend thereon . for our better clearing the testimony of scotus , in which you charge his lordship with falsification , we must consider on what account , and for what purposes that testimony is produced . his lordship had said before , that fundamentals are a rock immovable , and can never be varied ; therefore what is fundamental after the church hath defined it , was fundamental before the definition , and no decrees of councils , how general soever , can alter immovable verities ; wherefore , if the church in a council define any thing , the thing defined is not fundamental because the church hath defined it ; nor can be made so by the definition of the church , if it be not so in it self . for if the church hath this power , she might make a new article of faith , which the learned among themselves deny . for the articles of faith cannot increase in substance , but only in explication : for which he appeals to bellarmin . nor , saith he , is this hard to be further proved out of your own school . for scotus professeth it in this very particular of the greek church . if there be , saith he , a true real difference between the greeks and latins about the point of the procession of the holy ghost , then either they or we be , vere haeretici , truly and indeed hereticks . which he speaks of the old greeks long before any decision of the church in this controversie . for he instances in s. basil , and greg. nazianzen , on one side ; and s. jerome , augustine , and ambrose , on the other . and who dares call any of these hereticks is his challenge ? that then which his lordship proves by this testimony , is that the nature of heresie doth not depend on the churches definition , but on the nature of the things ; for , according to scotus , antecedently to the churches definition , if there had been any real difference between the greeks and latins one side of them had been hereticks . to this you answer , that hence it follows not , that scotus thought they could be hereticks , unless they denyed or doubted of that which they had reason to believe was revealed by god , but it only follows , that if they knew this ( as those learned greeks had sufficient reason to know it ) they might well be esteemed hereticks , before any special declaration of the church ; although it be more clear , that he is an heretick , who denies to believe that doctrine , after he confesses that it is defined by the church . from which answer of yours , several things are to our purpose observable . . that the formal reason of heresie , is , denying something supposed to be of divine revelation . . that none can reasonably be accused of heresie , but such as have sufficient reason to believe that which they deny is revealed by god. . that none can be guilty of heresie , for denying any thing declared by the church ; unless they have sufficient reason to believe , that whatever is declared by the church , is revealed by god. which unavoidably follows from the former , and therefore the churches definition cannot make any hereticks , but such as have reason to believe that she cannot erre in her definitions . from whence protestants will be in less danger of heresie than papists , till you give us more sufficient reasons to prove , that whatever the church declares , is certainly revealed by god. and , although you tell us , men may be accounted hereticks before they are condemned as such by general councils , if they oppose the doctrine clearly contained in scripture , or generally received by the church ; yet you tell us not , what the measures are , whereby we ought to judge what things are thus clearly contained in scripture , or universally received ; whether the churches judgement must be taken , or every man 's own judgement : if the former , the ground of heresie lyes still in the churches definition , contrary to what scotus affirms ; if the latter , then no one can be an heretick , but he that opposeth that which he is or may be convinced , is clearly contained in scripture , or generally received by the church . if that which he is convinced , then no man is an heretick , but he that goes against his present judgement , and so there will be few hereticks in the world ; if that which he may be convinced of , it must be understood either in his own judgement , or yours ; if in his own judgement , then a heretick is one who dissents to things rashly , without using means to inform himself : if in yours , why may not he say , you may as well be convinced of the truth of that which he believes , as he be convinced of the truth of that which you believe ; and so you may be a heretick to him by the same reason that he is to you . but you say further , that there are many things , which in themselves are matters of faith ; yet so obscure , in relation especially to unlearned and particular persons , that before the decree of the church , we are not hereticks , though we should either doubt of them , or deny them : because , as yet , there appears no sufficient reason that can oblige us to believe them ; although , after the definition of the church , we ought as well to believe them as any other . but it is impossible to understand how there can be such things which men might safely not believe , but upon the definition of the church they are bound to believe them necessarily , unless it be clear to them , that the church hath power to make obscure things plain , and unnecessary things to become necessary . for , suppose one of these obscure things be this very power of the church in defining such things , while this remains so obscure , you tell me , i may doubt or disbelieve it without heresie , and while i do so , i may certainly doubt or disbelieve all she declares . but , by what means shall this thing become clear ? must it be by the churches defining it ? but that very power of defining , is the thing in question , and therefore cannot be cleared by it . and if there be any thing then so obscure , that men may without sin doubt of it , or disbelieve it , certainly the churches power in defining matters of faith , is such ; it being not capable , by any act of the church , of being made so clear , as to oblige men to believe it . but we must see how his lordship hath wronged the testimony of scotus : for first , say you , he would perswade his reader , that this author supposed a real difference between the ancient greek and latin fathers , about the procession of the holy ghost ; whereas scotus declares , that there was no real difference between them : but doth his lordship say , there was ? doth he not expresly cite scotus his testimony in an hypothetical manner ; if there be a true real difference , &c. and it is evident from scotus his words , that he supposeth , if the difference had been real , that either the greeks or latins were truly hereticks . and therefore you are guilty of a much greater injury to his lordship than he was to scotus . again , you say , he wrongs him , in saying , that after the churches definition , it becomes of the substance of faith. now , say you , scotus hath not one word of the substance of faith , much less of fundamental , which he imposes presently upon him , but sayes only thus , ex quo ecclesia declaravit hoc esse tenendum , &c. tenendum est , quod spiritus sanctus procedat ab utroque , since the church hath so declared , so it must be held . sure you never expect to be believed , but by a very implicit faith ; for if one doth but offer to search an author , your jugling becomes notorious . had you the confidence to say , that scotus has not one word of the substance of faith ; i pray who made that , &c. for you in the sentence ? if you did it your self , you abuse your readers ; if another did it for you , he abused you : for that very , &c. leaves out those words , sicut de substantia fidei , and try if you can render that otherwise , than as of the substance of faith : to manifest your forgery , the whole place is cited in the margin . is this your fidelity in quoting authors , even when you charge others with wronging them ? it may be you will say yet , that scotus doth not say , it is to be held , sicut de substantia fidei , though it be declared by the church to be so held ! but what means then the ex quo , if men's faith must not be guided by the churches declaration : for if it be therefore to be believed necessarily , because declared by the church , it must be believed as it is declared by the church : if therefore the church declares that it is to be held as of the substance of faith , it ought to be held so by such as are bound to believe it on the churches declaration . besides , you will not say , but that it was to be believed before ; now , what alteration is caused by the declaration of the church , but this , that which was before to be believed simply and in it self , is now to be believed on the account of the churches declaration , as of the substance of faith. and thus it is impossible to relieve your self with your old shift of material and formal object , which you betake your self to . thus still we see you are that most unhappy person , who never begin a charge against your adversary , but it falls back most unevitably upon your self , who so readily make use of forgeries , to prove others guilty of them . upon scotus his mentioning the churches declaration , his lordship inquires , what this declaration is , and how far it extends . for which , his lordship saith , the master teacheth , and his scholars too , that every thing which belongs to the exposition or declaration of another , intus est , is not another contrary thing , but is contained within the bowels and nature of that which is interpreted : from which , if the declaration depart , it is faulty and erronious , because , instead of declaring , it gives another and contrary sense . therefore when the church declares any thing in council , either that which she declares was intus , or extra ; in the nature and verity of the thing , or out of it . if it were extra , without the nature of the thing declared , then the declaration of the thing is false ; and so , far from being fundamental in the faith. if it were intus , within the nature and compass of the thing , though not open and apparent to every eye ; then the declaration is true , but not otherwise fundamental then the thing is which is declared : for that which is intus , cannot be larger or deeper , than that in which it is ; if it were , it could not be intus . therefore nothing is simply fundamental , because the church declares it ; but because it is so , in the nature of the thing which the church declares . in answer to this , you seem more ingenuous than usual ; for you acknowledge , that his expression is learnedly solid and good : but yet you would seem to return some answer to this argument , viz. that although there be no alteration in the nature of the articles by the churches declaration ; yet this doth not hinder them from becoming fundamental in that sense in which we dispute , i. e. such as cannot be denyed or doubted of under pain of damnation , although they were not thus fundamental before the declaration , as not being so clearly proposed to us , as that we were bound to believe them . neither doth this take away any thing from their intus , or that being which they had of themselves ; but only gives a certainty of their being so , and declares that they ought to be so quoad nos , as well as quoad se , and internally . and it is no evasion , but a solid distinction , that the declaration of the church varies not the thing in it self , but quoad nos in its respect to us . the substance of your answer lyes in this , that though the church by her declaration , doth not alter the nature of things , yet she may , and doth , our obligation to believe them ; so that such things which men might have been saved without believing before , when once the church hath declared them , become necessary to be believed in order to salvation . and yet you would not have this called making new articles of faith : but i pray tell us , what you mean by articles of faith ; are not those properly articles of faith , as distinct from theological verities , which are necessary to be believed by all ? if therefore those things which the church declares , were before not necessary , and by the churches declaration do become necessary ; than certainly those things which were not articles of faith , do become articles of faith , and what then doth the church by her declaration , but make new articles of faith ? but , though you assert the thing , you like not the terms , because they do not sound so pleasantly to the ears of christians , who believe all obligation to faith doth depend upon immediate divine revelation . setting aside therefore the terms , let us examine the thing , to see upon what grounds the church can make that necessary to us , which was not in it self . in which case the obligation not arising from the necessity of the matter in it self to be believed , it is no otherwise intelligible , but that it must result from the supposition of some immediate revelation . for nothing else can bind us to an internal assent , which you require as necessary to the churches definitions but that , unless you can shew how any society of men considered as such , have power to oblige all other men to believe what they declare on pain of damnation for not doing it . i pray tell me , whether the apostles themselves had power to bind all christians to the belief of something as necessary , which the spirit of god did not immediately reveal to them to be so ? if not , what power can any church have to do it , without a greater measure of infallibility , than the apostles ever pretended to ? for , they never attempted to define any thing as necessary , which was supposed unnecessary to be believed after the doctrine of the gospel was declared to the world . before then you can perswade us to believe that your church can make any thing necessary , which was not so , you must prove an absolute infallible divine assistance of god's spirit with your church , in whatever she shall attempt to declare or define as matter of faith. as for instance , supposing it not necessary to salvation in it self to believe the immaculate conception of the virgin mary , how is it possible to conceive , after your churches definition of it , it should become necessary , unless it be supposed that there was an immediate divine revelation , in that definition . for , nothing but divine authority commanding our assent , the ground of faith must be resolved into that ; now in this case , besides the immediate assent to the thing declared as a truth , there is a distinct proposition to be believed , which is , that what was not before necessary to be believed , doth now become necessary to be believed by all ; and shew us , either that there is divine revelation for this , or else excuse us , that we cannot give an internal assent to it . for , we have not learnt to give an assent of faith to a meer humane proposition , or , in our saviour's words , we call no man , master upon earth , so as to promise to believe it in the power of any church whatsoever , to make any thing necessary to be believed , which was not so before . hence it appears , that your distinction of , in se , & quoad nos , is as insignificant , as your pretence of the churches power to define matters of faith is presumptuous and arrogant , being the highest degree of lording it over the christian world . why your church may not as well declare something not to be of faith , which before was of faith , as declare something to be of faith , which before was not of faith , it is not easie to apprehend , if that thing might be supposed of faith before , without the churches explicit declaration . for in that case the church would not so apparently contradict her self ; for that contradiction doth not lye in varying the respects of things , but in one declaration contradicting another . for otherwise , it is as great a contradiction to say , that something which was not necessary , is become necessary ; as that a thing which was necessary , is become not necessary . therefore if there be a contradiction in one , there is in the other . if the contradiction lyes in the declaration , you must say , that nothing could be supposed necessary to be believed , but what was declared by the church to be so , and as declared by the church : which is a province as difficult as necessary to be undertaken , to rid your hands of this difficulty . for otherwise , that answer of yours cannot reach the objection . and now we come to that testimony of s. augustine , which was produced to prove , that all points defined by the church are fundamental : which say , it is a thing founded . an erring disputant is to be born with in other questions , not diligently digested , not yet made firm by full authority of the church ; there errour is to be born with : but it ought not to proceed so farre , that it should labour to shake the foundation it self of the church . now to this place his lordship answers . . he speaks of a foundation of doctrine in scripture , not of a church-definition : this appears , saith he , for few lines before , he tells us , there was a question moved to s. cyprian , whether baptism was concluded to the eighth day , as well as circumcision ? and no doubt was made then of the beginning of sin ; and that out of this thing , about which no question was moved , that question that was made was answered . and again , that s. cyprian took that which he gave in answer from the foundation of the church , to confirm a stone that was shaking ▪ now s. cyprian in all the answer that he gives , hath not one word of any definition of the church : therefore ea res , that thing by which he answered , was a foundation of prime and setled scripture-doctrine , not any definition of the church : therefore that which he took out of the foundation of the church , to fasten the stone that shook , was not definition of the church , but the foundation of the church it self , the scripture upon which it is builded : as appeareth in the milevitane councils ; where the rule by which pelagius was condemned , is the rule of scripture . therefore s. augustine goes on in the same sense , that the disputer is not to be born any longer , that shall endeavour to shake the foundation it self , upon which the whole church is grounded . . his lordship answers , that , granting that the churches definition , was meant by s. austin , yet it can never follow out of any , or all these circumstances , that all points defined by the church are fundamental , because this foundation may be upon humane authority ; and that which follows , only is , that things are not to be opposed , which are made firm by full authority of the church ; but it cannot be thence concluded , they are therefore fundamental in the faith. this is the substance of his lordships answer to this place ; which we must consider what you reply to . first , you say , that it cannot be doubted but that s. austin 's judgement was , that all our faith depended on the authority of the church , and therefore that he that opposeth himself against this , endeavoureth to shake and destroy the very ground-work of all divine and supernatural faith. this is a rare way of silencing adversaries , by telling them , that cannot be doubted , which others can see no reason at all to believe . as in this present case you , tell me , that cannot be doubted , which i utterly deny , viz. that s. austins judgement was , that all our faith depended on the authority of the church ; and if all the proof you have for it , be only that well-known place , ego verò evangelio non crederem , &c. you shall in time see , what an ill choice you made of fixing your proof wholly upon that . but whoever is never so little conversant in s. augustin's way of disputing either against the donatists , pelagians , or manichees , will find very little reason to doubt , but that he made the foundation of faith , to be god's word , and not the authority of the church . indeed s. austin , by way of prescription , often makes use of the churches authority , not where there hath been particular definitions , but vniversal consent , which he understands by the settlement , by full authority of the church ; but this he insists not on as the ground of faith , but to shew the unreasonableness of mens opposing those things which the vniversal church was agreed in , as in this controversie here disputed by him concerning original sin in infants . therefore if i understand s. austin in this place , he doth not at all speak concerning what is to be owned as a matter of faith simply in it self , but what the churches carriage towards dissenters is . for after that citation of s. cyprian at the conclusion of his sermon , he addresseth himself to the pelagians , as his dissenting brethren ; therefore , saith he , let us , if possible , intreat this of our brethren , that they would no longer call us hereticks ; because we might as well call them so if we would , but we do not . why was s. austin so scrupulous of calling the pelagians hereticks , if he made the definition of the church the foundation of faith , and looked on this controversie as defined by full authority of the church ? and after , speakes of the churches bearing with them still , in order to their instruction ; though they were gone so far , that they were scarce to be born with ; and that the church exercised great patience towards them ; therefore intreats them not to abuse this patience of the church , but to be reformed , since they did exhort as friends , and not contend as enemies . and so brings in the former words , which i thus paraphrase ; it is a thing to be taken for granted , that in disputable points , and such as the church hath not alwaies been agreed in , dissenters may be born with : but if direct and full opposition to the clear sense of the church should still be suffered , it would overthrow the very foundation of the church it self . and that this , and no other , is the plain and genuine meaning of s. austin , is evident to any one who impartially considers antecedents and consequents , and the natural sense of the words themselves . before , he spake how far the church had born with them : in the words themselves , he tells them , they must not expect the church would alwaies bear with them , if they joyned obstinacy with their errours for that would ruine the church , if she continually suffered such as violently opposed things contrary to her clearest sense : and after tells them , this is not expedient : for hitherto , it may be , our patience is not to be found fault withall ; but we ought likewise to fear , lest we be blamed for our negligence : which words immediately follow the former . and is not this now a rare consequence , if the church must not alwaies bear with such as oppose her , then whatever is defined by the church is fundamental ? for it is most evident , s. austin speaks not of the churches power , in defining matters of faith , but of the churches proceeding with obstinate hereticks . and therefore the foundation spoken of , is not the foundation of her belief , but of her communion ; which the continual bearing with such obstinate persons as the pelagians were , would in time overthrow . the want of understanding this to be s. augustine's meaning , hath made you spend many words to very little purpose , supposing all along that he speaks of the churches definition , and not her proceedings . your reply to his lordships second answer , runs upon the same mistake , that he speaks of shaking the foundation of faith , whereas i have already shewed , that he speaks of no such thing , and therefore that , as well as the former answer , fall to the ground together , being both built on the same mistaken foundation . chap. iii. the absurdities of the romanists doctrine of fundamentals . the churches authority must be divine , if whatever she defines be fundamental . his lordship , and not the testimony of s. augustine , shamefully abused , three several wayes . bellarmine not mis-cited ; the pelagian heresie condemned by the general council at ephesus . the pope's authority not implyed in that of councils . the gross absurdities of the distinction of the church teaching and representative , from the church taught and dissusive , in the question of fundamentals . the churches authority and testimony in matters of faith , distinguished . the testimonies of vincentius lerinensis explained , and shewed to be directly contrary to the roman doctrine of fundamentals . stapleton and bellarmine not reconciled by the vain endeavours used to that end . the main doctrine of fundamentals being in the foregoing chapter setled and cleared , what remains of that subject will be capable of a quicker dispatch . the scope of this chapter , is , to assoil those difficulties , which your doctrine of fundamentals is subject to . what little footing that hath in the place of s. augustine , was the last thing discussed in the preceding chapter ; and therefore must not be repeated here . his lordship urgeth this reason why s. augustine , or any other reasonable man could not believe , that whatever is defined by the church is fundamental in the faith ; because full church-authority ( alwaies the time that included the holy apostles being past by , and not comprehended in it ) is but church-authority ; and church-authority , when it is at full sea , is not simply divine ; therefore the sentence of it not fundamentall in the faith. to this you very wisely and learnedly answer ; i will not dispute with his lordship , whether it be , or no ; because it is sufficient that such authority be infallible . for if it be infallible , it cannot propose to us any thing as revealed by god , but what is so revealed . so that to dispute against this authority , is in effect to take away all authority from divine revelation ; we having no other absolute certainty , that this or that is revealed by god , but only the infallibility of the church proposing , or attesting it unto us as revealed . whence also it follows , that to doubt , dispute against , or deny any thing that is proposed by the infallible authority of the church , is to doubt , dispute against , and deny that which is fundamental in faith. his lordship denies the sentence of the church to be fundamental in the faith , because not divine ; you dare not say , it is divine , but contend that it is infallible , and from that infallibility inferr , that whosoever denies the churches infallibility , must deny something fundamental in the faith , because we can have no other absolute certainty that any thing is revealed by god , but only from the churches infallibility , so that your whole proof rests upon a very rotten and uncertain foundation , viz. that all certainty in matters of faith , doth depend upon the churches infallibility ; the falshood and unreasonableness of which principle , will at large be discovered in the succeeding controversie . and if this fails , then the denial of the churches infallibility doth not inferr the denial of any thing fundamental in the faith , because men may be certain of all fundamentals , without believing this infallibility . but yet , say you , there is no necessity of asserting church-authority to be divine , but only to be infallible , in order to the making what she defines to be fundamental . a rare and excellent piece of your old theological reason ; as though any thing could be any further infallible than it is divine , or any further owned to be divine , than as it is infallible . i pray , acquaint us with these rare arts of distinguishing between an authority divine and infallible , when the ground of that infallibility , is the supposition of something properly and simply divine , which is the infallible assistance of god's spirit . is that assistance infallible too , but not divine ? if it be divine , as well as infallible , how comes that infallibility which flows from it not to be divine , when the cause of it was simply and absolutely so ? besides , what infallible authority is that which makes all its definitions fundamental , and yet is not in it self divine ? from whence comes any thing to be fundamental ? you tell us your self , as it is known to be revealed by god. and can any thing be known to be revealed by god , but by an authority divine ? especially on your principles , who make all certainty of knowing it to depend on that churches authority ? if so , then since the churches sentence makes things become matters of faith , some things may become matters of faith , which have no divine authority for them . but this excellent and subtle distinction between divine and infallible authority , we shall have occasion to examine afterwards . and therefore it is well you tell us , notwithstanding that infallible and divine , seem to many great divines to be terms convertible , which only acquaints us with thus much , that there are some men who understand things better than you do ; and that to do so , is to be a great divine . and if stapleton be one of these , we are not much offended at it ; and so far we will take the testimonies which you produce out of him . — that which next follows depends upon the proof of the infallibility of general councils , which when you have sufficiently cleared , we will believe , that there can be no plain scripture , or evident reason against any of their definitions , but till then we must believe there may be room for both . your next section promiseth to shew us a shameful abuse of s. augustine 's testimony , three several waies ; but , if it appears , that not one of those waies will hold , then it only follows , that so many waies you have abused his lordship , and not he s. augustine . his lordship having affirmed , that plain scripture with evident sense , or a full demonstrative argument , must have room , where a wrangling and erring disputer may not be allowed it . and there 's neither of these but may convince the definition of the council , if it be ill founded . over against these words he cites that sentence of s. austin ; quae quidem si tam manifest a monstratur , ut in dubium venire non possit , praeponenda est omnibus illis rebus , quibus in catholicâ teneor . ita si aliquid apertissimum in evangelio , &c. the plain meaning of which words of s. augustine , is , that evident truth is to be preferred before all church-authority : now a threefold exception you take to his lordships insisting on this testimony . . that s. austin speaks not either of plain scripture , or evident sense , or of a full demonstrative argument ; but addressing his speech to the manicheans , he writes thus , apud vos autem ubi nihil horum est quod me invitet ac teneat , sola personat veritatis pollicitatio ( and then follow the words cited by the bishop ) quae quidem si tam manifesta monstratur ; where it is plain quae , which is relative only to truth , and not to scripture , or any thing else . a wonderful abuse of s. austin to make him parallel plain scripture , evident sense , or a full demonstrative argument with truth ! as though if evident truth were more prevalent with him than all those arguments which held him in the catholick church , plain scripture , evident sense , or demonstrations would not be so too . what truth can be evident , if it be not one of these three ? do you think , there is any other way of manifesting truth , but by scripture , sense or demonstration ? if you have found out other waies , oblige the world by communicating them ; but till then , give us leave to think , that it is all one to say , manifest truth , as plain scripture , evident sense , or clear demonstrations . but , say you , he speaks only of that truth which the manichees bragged of , and promised ▪ as though s. austin would have been perswaded sooner as it came from them , than as it was truth in it self . i suppose , s. austin did not think their testimony sufficient , and therefore sayes , quae quidem si tam manifesta monstratur , &c. i. e. if they could make that which they said , evident to be truth , he would quit the church , and adhere to them : and if this holds against the manichees , will it not on the same reason hold every where else , viz. that manifest truth is not to be quitted on any authority whatsoever ? which is all his lordship asserts . but , you offer to prove , that s. austin , by truth , could not mean plain scripture ; but can you prove , that by truth , he did not mean truth , whereever he found it , whether in scripture , or elsewhere ? no , say you , it cannot be meant , that by truth , he should mean plain scripture , in opposition to the definitions of the catholick church , or general councils ; for which , you give this reason , because he supposes it impossible , that the doctrine of the catholick church , should be contrary to scripture ; for then men , according to s. austin , should not believe infallibly , either the one or the other . not the scriptures , because they are received only upon the authority of the church ; nor the church , whose authority is infringed by the plain scripture which is brought against her . for which you produce a large citation out of s. austin . to that purpose . but the answer to that is easie . for , s. austin , when he speaks of church-authority , quâ infirmatâ jam nec evangelio credere potero ; he doth not in the least understand it of any definitions of the church ; but of the vniversal tradition of the catholick church concerning the scriptures from the time of christ and his apostles . and what plain scriptures those are supposable , which should contradict such a tradition as this is , is not easie to understand . but the case is quite otherwise as to the churches definitions ; for neither doth the authority of scripture at all rest upon them ; and there may be very well supposed some plain scriptures contrary to the churches definitions , unless it be proved , that the church is absolutely infallible , and the very proof of that depending on scripture , there must be an appeal made to plain scripture , whether the churches definitions may not be contradicted by scripture . when therefore you say , this is an impossible supposition , that scripture should contradict the churches definitions , like that of the apostle ; if an angel from heaven teach otherwise , let him be accursed , gal. . you must prove it as impossible for the church to deviate from scripture in any of her definitions , as for an angel to preach another gospel ; which will be the braver attempt , because it seems so little befriended either by sense or reason . but , say you , if the church may be an erring definer , i would gladly know , why an erring disputer may not oppugn her . that which you would so gladly know , is not very difficult to be resolved , by any one who understands the great difference between yielding an internal assent to the definitions of the church , and open opposing them ; for it only follows from the possibility of the churches errour in defining , that therefore we ought not to yield an absolute internal assent to all her determinations , but must examine them by the best measures of truth , in order to our full assent to them : but , though the church may erre , it doth not therefore follow , that it is lawful in all cases , or for all persons , to oppugn her definitions , especially if those definitions be only in order to the churches peace : but if they be such as require internal assent to them , then plain scripture , evidence of sense , or clear reason , may be sufficient cause to hinder the submitting to those definitions . . you tell us , that his lordship hath abused s. austin 's testimony , because he speaks not of the definitions of the church , in matters not fundamental , according to the matter they contain ; but the truth mentioned by him was fundamental in its matter . this is the substance of your second answer , which is very rational and prudent , being built on this substantial evidence . if s. austin doth preferr manifest truth before things supposed fundamental in the matter , then no doubt s. austin would not preferr manifest truth , before things supposed not-fundamental in the matter . and do not you think this enough to charge his lordship with shamefully abusing s. austin ? but certainly , if s. austin preferred manifest truth before that which was greater , would he not do it before that which was incomparably less ? if he did it before , all those things which kept him in the catholick church , such as the consent of nations , miracles , universal tradition , which he mentions before ; do you think he would have scrupled to have done it , as to any particular definitions of the church ? these are therefore very excellent waies of vindicating the fathers testimonies , from having any thing of sense or reason in them . . you say , he hath abused s. austin , by putting in a wrangling disputer : but i wonder where his lordship ever sayes , that s. austin mentions any such in the testimony cited . for his words are these . but plain scripture , with evident sense , or a full demonstrative argument must have room , where a wrangling and erring disputer may not be allowed it . and there 's neither of these ( over against these words , he referrs to s. austin's testimony , and not the foregoing ) but may convince the definition of the council , if it be ill founded . when you therefore ask , where the wrangling disputer is to be found ; had it not been for the help of this cavil , we might have been to seek for him . but when you have been enquiring for him , at last you cry out , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , oh! i see now : and you are the fittest man to find him out that i know . you say , this is done to distinguish him from such a disputer as proceeds solidly and demonstratively against the definitions of the church , when they are ill founded ; which s. austin is so far from supposing that one may do , that he judges him a mad man , who disputes against any thing quod universa ecclesia sentit ; and that they have hearts , not only of stone , but even of devils , who resist so great a manifestation of truth , as is made by an oecumenical council , for of that he speaks . your design is , to prove , that s. austin doth not admit of any plea from scripture , sense , or reason , against any definitions of the church , for which you first produce that known place in which s. austin accounts it madness to oppose the universal practices of the church , which will hold for your purpose , as far as rites and matters of faith have any analogy with each other ; your latter testimony seems more to the purpose to all persons who do not examine it , and to none else . for , although you seemed very careful to prevent any examination of the place by a false citation of epist. . for . yet that hath not hindered my discovering your fraud , in asserting , that s. austin there speaks of an oecumenical council . for there is not so much as any thing like it in that epistle . i acknowledge those words to be found there which you produce , nulla excusatio jam remansit : nimium dura , nimium diabolica sunt hominum corda , quae adhuc tantae manifestationi veritatis obsistunt . but there needs no more to confute the most of your testimonies out of the fathers , but to mention the occasion of their being produced , or the scope and design of the authors , as is most evident in this place . for this epistle is written in the name of silvanus , valentinus , aurelius , innocentius , maximinus , optatus , augustinus , donatus , and other bishops , for satisfaction of the donatists concerning the proceedings at the council of carthage ; for the donatist bishops being therein baffled , had dispersed among their proselytes many false rumours of that council , and of their being circumvented by their catholick adversaries . to disprove which in this epistle , they first shew the fraud and falsitie of the donatists , and then the integrity of their own proceedings , by the choice of seven persons on either side , who should speak in behalf of the rest ; and seven others as counsellors to them ; and four notaries on either side , and four other persons who should keep the records to prevent all fraud . besides all this , every one was to subscribe in his own words , that no man might complain that any thing was corrupted afterwards ; which things being dispersed , while the persons themselves lived , there was no probability posterity should be deceived in the report of them . and then follow those words ; that no excuse hath now been left , but that their hearts are too hard and diabolical , who could gainsay so clear a manifestation of truth . is it not now a rare consequence from hence to inferr , that it is not lawful upon any ground of scripture , sense or reason , to dispute the definitions of general councils ? whereas no such thing was ever mentioned as a general council , as appears by the very next words , where he sayes expresly , it was only a council of african bishops ; and elsewhere s. austin tells the donatists , that they never durst appeal to a general council . and supposing the council never so oecumenical , he mentions nothing of the definitions of it , but the manner of its proceedings . so that the greatest truth hereby manifested , is , your design to abuse his lordship and the reader together . since you disown the distinction of things , being fundamental in the matter and in the manner , i shall not trouble you with shewing you the weakness of it : but it were easie to manifest it as good as that you embrace of the material and formal object , which hath been sufficiently refuted in the precedent chapter , and i have no leisure for repetitions . his lordship endeavouring further to shew , what little foundation your doctrine of fundamentals hath in the forecited place of s. augustine ; urgeth this as an argument against it , that if all points defined by the church , are therefore fundamental , because that is not to be shaken , which is setled by full authority of the church ; then it must follow , that the point there spoken of , the remission of original sin , in the baptism of infants , was defined when s. augustine wrote this , by a full sentence of a general council . you deny the consequence ; for , say you , by authority of the church you mean ( and not unproperly ) the church generally practising this doctrine , and defining it in a national council confirmed by the pope . for this was plena authoritas ecclesiae , though not plenissima ; and to dispute against what was so practised and defined , is , in s. augustine's sense , to shake the foundation of the church , if not wholly to destroy it . it seems a little hard to understand what you mean by the churches being ( not unproperly ) said to practise this doctrine : what , did the church practise the doctrine of the remission of original sin in infants ? that a church should practise a matter of faith , seems a little wonderful ; but that it should do this and that not unproperly , increaseth the admiration . and we might think it a peculiar priviledge belonging to your church , but that she is not so much used to practise things more capable of it . and can you think it enough to run us down , by telling us , that the pope , with a national council , hath defined it , unless you first prove , that the pope , and a national council , have as much authority as a general council , which you pretend to be infallible ; and if a national council with the pope be so too , i wonder to what end general councils are ever call'd , since the infallibility may be had at a much cheaper rate . and by the same reason you make national councils infallible , you may do provincial , if the pope concurrs with them ; and , by the same reason , the colledge of cardinals may be infallible without any of them , because of the pope's concurrence with them . and so , all this business of councils , is but a formal piece of pageantry , since all the infallibility they have by this pretence , is conferred by the pope in his concurrence ; whose infallibility doth not depend on the presence of a council ; and therefore he must be as infallible without a council , as with it . so that at last this discourse comes to this issue , he that shakes the pope's infallibility , shakes the foundation of the church : and prove but this to have been s. augustine's meaning , you will highly advance the interest of your cause . but , whatever s. austin's meaning be , you think your self engaged to vindicate bellarmine , who , his lordship had said , was deceived , in saying , that the pelagian heresie was never condemned in an oecumenical council , but only in nationals . for , saith he , while the pelagians stood out impudently against national councils , some of them defended nestorius , which gave occasion to the first ephesine council , to excommunicate and depose them . to which you answer . . it is not credible , that bellarmine , who writ so much of controversie , should not have read that council ; nor can there be any suspicion of his con●ealing the matter , had he found it there , &c. and therefore you suspend your assent till the council's words be produced . . you tell us , that it is not enough to prove that pelagianism was condemned by a general council , because some who were pelagians were ; but , say you , they were condemned not for pelagianism , but nestorianism , and therefore his lordship shoots wide of the mark . your argument from bellarmine will have no great force with them , who see no reason to admire his fidelity ; and they who enquire into the matter of fact , in the present debate , will have cause to suspect it . the short account whereof is this . after that julianus , florus , orontius , fabius and others , had been deposed and banished in the western churches , for the pelagian heresie , they fly to constantinople , and shroud themselves under the protection of nestorius the patriarch there , who secretly favoured them , and writ several letters to pope celestine in behalf of them : who is supposed to have received his doctrine of the person of christ from the pelagians . but when he saw that no good was to be done by these letters , but by the daily spreading of nestorianism , the emperour was forced to summon a council at ephesus , a. d. . the pelagians accompany nestorius thither , and joyn with johannes antiochenus , and his party , in opposition to the synod . but the council understanding the proceedings which had been in the western churches against the pelagians , ratifies and confirms their deposition , as appears by the synodal epistle of the council to pope celestine , which is extant in the acts of the ephesine council : and in the epistles of cyril of alexandria . and besides this , some of the canons of that council , do equally concern celestius and nestorius ; the first canon decreeing as well the favourers of celestius as nestorius to be excommunicate ; and the fourth dereeing the deposition of all such who should embrace either of them . and therefore it is truly said by jansenius , that the pelagian heresie , and the bishops who favoured it , were again condemned by an oecumenical council . and thence prosper in the epitaph of the nestorian and pelagian heresies , as he makes the nestorian only an off-spring of the pelagian ; so he makes both of them to fall , and be condemned together . from whence it appears , that the pelagians were not condemned in the ephesine council meerly for nestorianism , but for their proper and peculiar sentiments ; the former deposition of them being ratified by the council , and a new canon made to that purpose for the future . and now let the reader judge whether his lordship or bellarmine were herein the more mistaken . his lordship adds ; if this heresie were condemned only by a national council , then the full authority of the church here , is no more than the full authority of this church of africk . and i hope , saith he , that authority doth doth not make all points defined by it , to be fundamental . you will say , yes : if that council be confirmed by the pope . and then i must ever wonder , why s. augustine should say , the full authority of the church ; and not bestow one word upon the pope , by whose authority only that council , as all other , have their fulness of authority in your judgement . an inexpiable omission ; if this doctrine concerning the pope were true . to this you answer , that there was no need of any special mention of the pope , in speaking of the authority of the church ; because his authority is alwaies chiefly supposed , as being head of the whole church . but by whom was this supposed ? by you , or by s. augustine ? can you prove that s. austin , or any of the african fathers did ever suppose any such thing , that the pope being head of the church , his authority is chiefly supposed in the acts of national councils ? where was the supposal of this authority in the dispute between the african fathers , and the popes , in the case of appeals ? these are suppositions , only to be obtruded upon ignorant novices ; and such , who look no further into antiquity , than the implicit faith in their priests will give them leave . but what a stranger to all true antiquity this supposition of the pope's being head of the church , is , we shall see abundantly , when we come to the controversie of the pope's authority . yet granting the supposition true ( than which nothing can be more false ) when the main strength lyes not in the bare definition of a national council , which you grant of it self hath not full authority , but in the confirmation of that decision by the pope which makes that authority full , which was not so before ; was it not necessary to declare , that the pope did concurr to the giving it full authority , which without it could not be had ? you do not say , that all national councils have this full authority , not being confirmed by the pope ; if therefore s. augustine designed to shew that council to have full authority , the only way , to prove it , was to produce the pope's confirmation of it ; which cannot therefore be otherwise looked on , than as an inexpiable omission , if your doctrine be true ; for he left out that which was only pertinent and material to the business . your parallel between s. austin and your self ( which is a very worthy one ) in leaving out the mention of the pope's authority when it is understood , will then hold when you produce as great evidence that s. austin was a jesuit , as we have from your principles that you are . when you give as manifest proof , that the pope's power is necessary to all definitions of councils , as there is in our laws for our kings assenting to acts of parliament ; we may give you leave to parallel the omission of the express mention of one with the other . if the definitions of ancient councils did run in the name of pope and council , as our acts of parliament , in the name of the king , and both houses , we might easily say , the authority of them came from the pope , as of these from the king ; but there is nothing of that nature , but much of the contrary , as will appear in due time . when you therefore prove that the pope's power is implied , though it be not mentioned , you must prove it by some evident confession , that no authority of a council was full , unless the pope concurred with it : else you may as well say , that the great mogul hath no full authority to decree any thing without the pope's consent ; for i dare say , there is no denial of it in any of his laws . and yet , that is more than can be said here , for we have sufficient testimony from the records of that age , that the pope's authority was not supposed necessary to councils , from his being head of the church . what follows p. . n. , . depends wholly upon the often-mention'd distinction of the formal and material object of faith ; the foundation of which , having been already removed , whatever you offer to build upon it , must of necessity fall to the ground ; but i shall not follow your ill example , in making tedious repetitions , and then cry out , you are forced to it . his lordship urgeth further , from the romanists doctrine of fundamentals , that the churches definition , must be the churches foundation . his words are ; besides , whatsoever is fundamental in the faith , is fundamental to the church , which is one by the vnity of faith : therefore , if every thing defined by the church be fundamental in the faith , then the churches definition , is the churches foundation . and so , upon the matter , the church can lay her own foundation , and then the church must be in absolute and perfect being , before so much as her foundation is laid . to which you answer ; but what absurdity is it to grant , that the definition of the church teaching , is the foundation of the church taught ? or , the definition of the church representative , is the foundation of the church diffusive ? i pray , inform us whether this church teaching and representing , be the same church with the church taught and diffusive , or one different from it : if it be different , it must have a different foundation , and so must be fundamentally different ; if it be the same , then the church must still lay its own foundation : for whatever becomes fundamental by the definition of the church , is , i suppose , to be believed as necessary , i. e. fundamental , by the church teaching and representing , as well as taught and diffusive . unless you think those who decree things , to be believed by all in order to salvation , do exclude themselves out of that number ; and therefore , though it be necessary for all others to believe it , it is still indifferent for them , whether they will believe it or no. and therefore , were i of your church , i should heartily wish my self of the teaching and representative church ; for then others might go to hell for not believing that , which i might chuse whether i would or no. what an excellent invention this is , to make the pope and cardinals go to heaven , though they be atheists and infidels ? for , you tell us , we can have no assurance of any matter of faith , but from the infallibility of your church ; this infallibility lyes not in the taught and diffusive , but in the teaching and representative church ; and this distinction here supposes , that what is made the foundation of the church taught , is not the foundation of the church teaching , i. e. what is necessary to salvation for one , is not so for the other ; for that is your meaning of fundamentals . now , since all things become necessary to be believed by the church diffusive , upon the authority of the church representative ; it necessarily follows , from this distinction , that nothing at all is necessary to be believed by the church representative . and is not this a rare church the mean while ? but what is it which makes it a church ? for though it represents and teaches , yet it is still call'd a church teaching and representative : if it be a church , something must make it so : what can make it so , if not the belief of what is necessary to salvation ? and if it doth not believe all that is necessary to salvation , the church diffusive is much more truly a church , than the representative : if it doth believe all that is necessary , then it must believe its own definitions , because those are supposed to be so ; and consequently , if those be fundamental , the church must still lay her own foundation . or else these consequences follow . . that may be a true church , which doth not believe all things necessary to salvation . . the church teaching is not bound to believe that which she teaches , but only the church taught . . that may be the same church which fundamentally differs from it self . . when the church defines a thing to be necessary , she doth not believe it to be necessary , but it becomes necessary after her definition . for , i pray , satisfie us as to this teaching church , when she defines something necessary to be believed in order to salvation , which was not so defined before ; doth she at that instant of her definition believe that to be necessary to salvation , or doth she not ? if she doth , then it is necessary before her definition ; and so the belief of it as necessary , cannot depend upon it : but if she believes it only to be necessary , because she defines it to be so ; then she cannot believe it to be necessary , till she hath defined it , and consequently defines that to be necessary , which she believes not to be necessary : and so defines contrary to her own judgement and belief . let me therefore ask here some more questions , which i doubt you will think troublesome , if the church representative believed that not to be necessary to salvation , which she defined to be necessary to salvation , was she infallible in that belief or no ? if she was not infallible , then at that time what assurance could men have , of any matter of faith , since you tell us , that must be had from the churches infallibility ? if she were infallible , then either in some things only , or in all she believed ? if only in some things we ought to know what she is infallible in , and what not , lest we deceive our selves in believing her infallible in that in which she is not infallible ? if in all things , then she is infallible in believing that not to be necessary to salvation , which yet she infallibly defines to be necessary to salvation : and so the church may infallibly define that to be true , which at the very moment of that definition , she infallibly believes to be false . all these are the just and excellent consequences of this useful distinction of yours , which you look on as the only happy expedient , whereby to free your self from asserting , that the church , by making things fundamental , by her definitions , doth thereby lay her own foundation . but as absurd and unreasonable as this is , you would seem to have something to say for it : for you tell us , that the pastors , in all ages preserving christian people from being carried away with every wind of doctrine , are a foundation to them of constancy in doctrine . wonderfully subtle ! it is pity such excellent reasoning should want the ornaments of mood and figure : but thus it is in them . if the pastors of the church may be the means of preserving men from errours , then the definition of the church teaching , is the foundation of the church taught : which in short amounts to this ; if the pastors of the church may be a foundation of mens constancy in doctrine , then they may be a foundation of mens inconstancy in doctrine . if this be not that you mean , i can make no sense of what you say ; and if it be , let any one else make sense of it , that hath a gift for it . for , by constancy in doctrine , is meant , the adhering to that doctrine which god hath revealed as necessary in his word , but by the definitions of the teaching church , you understand a power to make more things necessary to the salvation of all than christ hath made ; so that , joyn these two together , the consequence is this : if the pastors of the church may , and ought to keep men from believing any other doctrine , then they have power to impose another doctrine ; which things are so contradictious to each other , that none but one of your faculty would have ventured to have set one to prove the other . therefore when you would prove any thing by this argument , your medium must be this , that the pastors of the church are a foundation of constancy in doctrine , by laying new foundations of doctrines by her definitions , which is just as if you would prove , that the best way to keep a house entire , without any additions , is to build another house adjoyning to it . but , say you further , were not the apostles in their times ( who were ecclesia docens ) by their doctrine and decrees , a foundation to the church which was taught by them ? doth not s. paul expresly affirm it , superaedificati supra fundamentum apostolorum , &c. to which i answer . . that the apostles were not therefore said to be the foundation on which they were built who believed on that doctrine , because , by virtue of their power , they could define or decree any thing to be necessary to salvation , which was not so before ; but , because they were the instruments whereby the things which were necessary to salvation , were conveyed to them . and because their authority , by virtue of their mission , and the power accompanying it , was the means whereby they were brought to believe the doctrin of the gospel , as in it self true . but there is a great deal of difference between teaching what is necessary to salvation , and making any thing necessary to salvation , which was before , meerly because it is taught by them . . i grant , that those things did become necessary to be believed , which the apostles taught ; but , it was either because the things were in themselves necessary , in order to the end declared , viz. man's salvation , or else it was on the account of that evidence which the apostles gave , that they were persons immediately imployed by god , to deliver those doctrines to them . but still here is nothing becoming necessary , by virtue of a decree or definition , but by virtue of a testimony , that what they delivered , came from god. . when the apostles delivered these things , the doctrine of the gospel was not made known to the world ; but they were chosen by god , and infallibly assisted for that end , that they might reveal it to the world : and this is certainly a very different case from that , when the doctrine of salvation is fully revealed and delivered down to us in unquestionable records . and therefore , if you will prove any thing to your purpose , you must prove as great and as divine assistance of the spirit in the church representative of all ages , as was in the apostles in the first age of the christian church . . when you say from hence , that the apostles , as the teaching church , laid the foundation of the church taught ; that can only be understood of those christians who became a church , by the apostles preaching the doctrine of the gospel to them : but this is quite a different thing from laying the foundation of a church already in being as your church , taught , and diffusive , is supposed to be . can you tell us , where the apostles are said to lay further foundations for churches already constituted ; that they made or declared more things necessary to salvation , than were so antecedently to their being a church ? but this is your case , you pretend a power in your church representative , to make more things necessary to salvation , than were before to a church already in being , and therefore supposed to believe all things necessary to salvation . you see therefore , what a vast disparity there is in the case , and how far the apostles declaring the doctrine of christ , and thereby founding churches , is from being an argument that the representative church , may lay the foundation of the church diffusive , which being a church already , must have its foundation laid before all new decrees and definitions of the teaching church . so that still it unavoidably follows upon your principles , that the church must lay her own foundation , and then the church must have been in absolute and perfect being , before so much as her foundation is laid . your weak endeavour of retorting this upon the bishop , because of the apostles teaching the church of their age , only shews , that you have a good will to say something in behalf of so bad a cause , but that you want ability to do it : as appears by the answers already given , as to the difference of the apostles case and yours . the subsequent section , which is spent in a weak defence of a. c ' s . words , hath the less cause to be particularly examined ; and besides , its whole strength lyes on things sufficiently discussed already , viz. the sufficient proposition of matters of faith , and the material and formal object of it . that which follows pretending to something new , and which looks like argumentation , must be more distinctly considered . cs. words are , that if one may deny , or doubtfully dispute against any one determination of the church , then he may against another , and another , and so against all : since all are made firm to us by one and the same divine revelation , sufficiently applied by one and the same full authority of the church ; which being weakned in any one , cannot be firm in any other . to which his lordship answers , . that this is understood only of catholick maxims , which are properly fundamental , by vincentius lirinensis , from whom this argument is derived . . he denies , that all determinations of the church are made firm to us by one and the same divine revelation . . he denies , that all determinations of the church are sufficiently applied by one and the same full authority of the church . of each of these he gives his reasons ; the examination and defence of which , is all that remains of this chapter . to the first , you answer three things ( for i must digest your answers for you . ) . that there is no evidence , that a. c. borrowed this from vincentius , and you give an excellent reason for it , because good wits may both hit on the same thing , or at least come near it ; which , had it been said of your self , had been more unquestionable : but , to let that pass , . you tell us , that the doctrine is true , whosoever said it . for which , you give this reason . for the same reason which permits not our questioning , or denying the prime maxims of faith , permits not our questioning , or denying any other doctrine declared by the church ; because it is not the greatness or smalness of the matter , that moves us to give firm assent in points of faith ; but the authority of god speaking by the church . to which i answer , that all this runs upon a supposition false in it self , which is , that all our assurance in matters of faith , depends upon the infallible authority of the present church ; which being granted , i would not deny ; but , supposing that infallibility absolute , on the same reason i believe one thing on the churches authority , i must believe all . for the case were the same then , as to the church , which we say , it is as to the scriptures ; he that believes any thing , on the account of its being contained in that book as the word of god , must believe every thing he is convinced to be therein contained , whether the matter be in it self small or great ; because the ground of his belief , is the authority of god , revealing those things to us . and if therefore you could prove such a divine authority , constantly resident in the church , for determining all matters of faith , i grant your consequence would hold : but that is too great a boon to be had for begging , and that is all the way you use for it here . if you offer to prove it afterwards , our answers shall be ready to attend you . but at present , let it suffice to tell you , that we believe no article of faith at all upon the churches infallible authority ; and therefore , though we deny what the church proposeth , it follows not that we are any more liable to question the truth of any article any further than the churches authority reaches in it ; i. e. we deny that any thing becomes an article meerly upon her account . but now , if you remove the argument from the present churches infallible authority , to the vniversal churches testimony , we then tell you , that he who questions a clear , full , universal tradition of the whole church from christ's time to this , will , by the same reason , doubt of all matters of faith , which are conveyed by this testimony to us . but then we must further consider , that we are bound by virtue of the churches testimony , to believe nothing any further , than it appears to have been the constant , full , vniversal testimony of the church , from the time of christ and his apostles . whatever therefore you can make appear to have been received as a necessary article of faith in this manner , we embrace it , but nothing else ; and on the other side , we say , that whoever doubts , or denies this testimony , will doubt of all matters of faith , because the ground and rule of faith , the scriptures , is conveyed to us only through this universal tradition . . you answer , that his lordship mistakes vincentius lerinensis his meaning , and falsifies his testimony thrice at least . whereof the first is in rendring [ de catholico dogmate ] of catholick maxims : and here a double most dreadful charge is drawn up against his lordship ; the first from the accusation of priscian , and the second of no less authours , than rider and the english lexicons : the first is , for translating the singular number by the plural ; whereas our most reverend orbilius himself in the following page , tells us , that this catholicum dogma , vincentius speaks of , contains the whole systeme of the catholick faith , and in that systeme some are fundamentals , some superstructures , ( both plurals ) yet all these contained in this one singular , dogma : but it was his lordships great mishap not to have his education in the schools of the jesuites , else he might have escaped the lash for this most unpardonable oversight of rendring verbum multitudinis by our authours own confession ( who makes it larger too then his lordship doth ; for his lordship saith , it contains only fundamentals , but our authour superstructures too ) by the plural number . but the second fault is worse then this ; for , saith our authour very gravely and discreetly with his rod in his hand , but in what authour learnt he , that dogma signifies only maxims , were it in the plural number ? dogma according to our english lexicons , rider , and others , signifies a decree , or common received opinion , whether in prime , or less principal matters . what a learned dispute are we now fallen into ? but i see you were resolved to put all , but boys and paedagogues out of all likelyhood of confuting you ; for those are only the persons among us , who deal in rider and english lexicons . i see now , there is some hopes , that the orders of the inquisition may have better latin , then that against mr. white had ; since our old jesuites begin to be so well versed in such masters of the latin tongue . how low is infallibility fallen , that we must appeal for knowing what dogma fidei is , to the definition not of popes and councils , but of rider and english lexicons ? but it is ill jesting with our orbilius in so severe a humour , that his grace of canterbury cannot scape his lash for not consulting riders dictionary for the signification of dogma . but our authour passeth , and we must attend him , out of his grammatical into the theological school ; and there tells us , that the ecclesiastical signification of dogma , extends it self to all things established in the church , as matters of faith , whether fundamentals or superstructures ; and for this , scotus is cited ( somewhat a better authour than rider ) who calls transubstantiation , dogma fidei . i begin to believe now , that dogma is a very large word , and fides much larger , that can hold so prodigious a thing as transubstantiation within them . but , notwithstanding what rider and scotus say , none so able to explain vincentius his meaning , as vincentius himself . to him therefore at last our authour appeals and tells us , that he declares in other places , that he means by dogma such things as in general belong to christian faith without distinction . but doth vincentius any where by dogma mean any such things which were not judged necessary by the ancient and primitive church , but become necessary to be believed upon the churches definitions ? nothing can possibly be imagined more directly contrary to the design of his whole book then that is , when he appeals still for matters to be believed to antiquity , vniversality , and consent ; and to be sure , all these are required to whatever he means by a dogma fidei : if you therefore can produce any testimonies out of his book , which can be supposed in the least to favour the power of the church in her new definitions of matters of faith , you may justly challenge to your self the name of an excellent invention , who can find that in his book , which all other persons find the directly contrary to . your first citation is out of ch . . ( not . as you quote it , or some one else for you ) where he is explaining what st. paul means by , prophanas vocum novitates . vocum , saith he , i. e. dogmatum , rerum , sententiarum novitates ; quae sunt vetustati , quae antiquitati contrariae . i shall not scruple to grant you that vincentius by dogmata here , doth mean such things as the definitions of your church are , for he speaks of those things , which all christians , who have a care of their salvation are to avoid ; of such things as are contrary to all antiquity ; and such kind of dogmata , i freely grant the definitions of your church to be . your second citation is as happy as the first , cap. . crescat ( saith he , speaking of the church ) sed in suo duntaxat genere , in eodem scilicet dogmate , eodem sensu , eâdemque sententiâ . an excellent place , no doubt , to prove it in the churches power to define new articles of faith ; because the church must alwaies remain in the same belief , sense , and opinion . when his words but little foregoing are , profectus sit ille fidei non permutatio , which without the help of english lexicons you would willingly render by leaving out that troublesome particle non , that the best progress in faith is by adding new articles , though it be as contrary to reason as it is to the sense of vincentius lerinensis . if vincentius saith , that the pelagians erred in dogmate fidei ( which words neither appear cap. . nor . ) he gives this reason for it , because they contradict the vniversal sense of antiquity , and the catholick church , cap. . so that still vincentius , where-ever he speaks of this dogma fidei , speaks in direct opposition to your sense of it , for new definitions of the church in matters of faith. there being scarce any book extant which doth more designedly overthrow this opinion of yours , then that of vincentius doth . to shew therefore how much you have wronged his lordship , and what little advantage comes to your cause by your insisting on vincentius his testimony : i shall give a brief account both of his design and book . the design of it , is , to shew what wayes one should use to prevent being deceived , by such who pretend to discover new matters of faith , and those he assigns to be these two , setling ones faith , on the authority of scripture , and the tradition of the catholick church . but since men would enquire , the canon of scripture being perfect , and abundantly sufficient for all things , what need can there be of ecclesiastical tradition ? he answers , for finding out the true sense of scripture , which is diversly interpreted , by novatianus , photinus , sabellius , donatus , arrius , eunomius , macedonius , apollinaris , &c. in the following chapter he tells us , what he means by this ecclesiastical tradition , quod ubique , quod semper , ab omnibus creditum est , that which hath antiquity , vniversality , and consent , joyning in the belief of it . and can any new definitions of the church pretend to all , or any of these ? he after enquires , what is to be done in case a particular church separates it self from the communion of the catholick ? he answers , we ought to prefer the health of the whole body , before any pestiferous or corrupted member . but in case any novel contagion should spread over , not a part only , but endanger the whole church ? then , saith he , a man must adhere to antiquity , which cannot be deceived with a pretence of novelty . but if in antiquity , we find out the errour of two or three particular persons , or city , or province ; what is then to be done ? then , saith he , the decrees of general councils are to be preferred : but in case there be none ? then he adds , the general consent of the most approved writers of the church is to be enquired after ; and what they all with one consent , openly , frequently , constantly held , writ , and taught , that let every man look on himself as bound to believe without hesitation . now then , prove but any one of the new articles of faith in the tridentine confession by these rules of vincentius ; and it will appear , that you have produced his testimony to some purpose : else nothing will be more strong and forcible against all your pretences , than this discourse of vincentius is ; which he inlarges by the examples of the donatists , arrians , and others , in the following chapters ; in which still his scope is to assert antiquity , and condemn all novelties in matters of faith under any pretext whatsoever . for this , ch . , . he cites a multitude of texts of scripture ; forbidding our following any other doctrine , but what was delivered by christ and his apostles ; and anathematizing all such as such as should preach any other gospel : and concludes that , with this remarkable speech ; it never was , never is , never will be , lawful to propose any thing ( as matter of faith ) to christian catholicks , besides what they have received . and it was , is , and will be becoming christians to anathematize all such who declare any thing but what they have received . do you think this man was not of your minde in the doctrine of fundamentals ? could he do otherwise then believe it in the churches power to define things necessary to salvation , who would have all those anathematized , who pretend to declare any thing as matter of faith , but what they received as such from their ancestours ? and after he hath at large exemplified this in the photinian , nestorian , apollinarian heresies , and shewed how little the authority of private doctors , how excellent soever , is to be relyed on in matters of faith ; he concludes again with this , whatsoever the catholick church held universally , that and that alone is to be held by particular persons . and after admires at the madness , blindness , perverseness of those , who are not contented with the once delivered and ancient rule of faith ; but are still seeking new things , and alwaies are itching to add , alter , take away , some thing of religion ( or matter of faith ) . as though that were not a heavenly doctrine , which may suffice to be once revealed ; but an earthly institution , which cannot be perfect , but by continual correction and amendment . is not this man now a fit person to explain the sense of your churches new definitions , and declarations in matters of faith ? and have not you hit very right on this sense of dogma , when here he understands by it that doctrine of faith , which is not capable of any addition or alteration ? and thus we understand sufficiently what he means by the present controverted place ; that if men reject any part of the catholick doctrine , they may as well refuse another , and another , till at last they reject all . by the catholick doctrine , or catholicum dogma , there he means the same with the coeleste dogma before , and by both of them understands that doctrine of faith which was once revealed by god , and which is capable of no addition at all , having antiquity , vniversality , and consent , going along with it ; and when you can prove that this catholicum dogma , doth extend beyond those things which his lordship calls catholick maxims , or properly fundamental truths , you will have done something to the purpose , which as yet you have failed in . and thus we say , vincentius his rule is good , though we do not say , that he was infallible in the application of it , but that he might mention some such things to have had antiquity , vniversality , and consent which had not so , such as the business of not rebaptizing hereticks , and the observation of easter , which you instance in . and withall we add , though nothing is to be admitted for matter of faith which wants those three marks , yet some things may have all three of them , and yet be no matters of faith at all ; and therefore not at all pertinent to this question ; such as those things are which you insist on , as deposita dogmata ; which doubtless is a rare way of probation . viz. to shew that by dogmata deposita , vincentius means some articles of faith which are not fundamental in the matter of them ; and for that make choice of such instances which are no matters of faith at all : but either ritual traditions , or matters of order , such as the form and matter of sacraments , the hierarchy of the church , paedobaptism , not rebaptizing hereticks , the perpetual virginity of the virgin mary . for that of the canon of scripture , it will be elsewhere considered , as likewise those other church-traditions . how the church should still keep , hoc idem quod antea , as you confess she ought , and yet make some things necessary to be believed by all , which before her declaration were not so , is somewhat hard to conceive ; and yet both these you assert together . is that which is necessary to be believed by all , the same with that which was not necessary to be so believed ? if the same measure of faith will not serve after , which would have done before , is there not an alteration made : yes , you grant , as to our believing , but not as to the thing , for that is the same it was . but do you in the mean time consider what kind of thing that is which you speak of , which is a thing propounded to be believed , and considered in no other respect , but as it is revealed by god in order to our believing it ; now when the same thing which was required only to be believed implicitely , i. e. not at all necessarily , is now propounded to be believed expresly and necessarily ; the fundamental nature of it , as an object of faith , is altered . for that which you call implicite faith , doth really imply as to all those things to be believed implicitely , that there is an indifferency , whether they be believed or no ; nothing being necessary to be believed , but what is propounded to be expresly believed : which being so , can it be imagined there should be a greater alteration in a matter of faith , then from its being indifferent whether it were believed or no , to become necessary to be expresly believed by all in order to salvation ? and where there is such an alteration as this in the thing to be believed , who can without the help of a very commodious implicite faith believe , that still this is hoc idem quod antea , the very same as a matter of faith , which it was before . though the church were careful to preserve every iota and tittle of sacred doctrines ; yet i hope it follows not , that every iota and tittle is of as much consequence , and as necessary to be believed , as the main substance of christian doctrine . although when any doctrine was violently opposed in the church she might declare her owning it by some overt act ; yet thence it doth not follow , that the internal assent to every thing so declared is as necessary , as to that proposition , that jesus is the son of god , the belief of which the scripture tells us was the main design of the writing of scripture . that general councils , rightly proceeding , may be great helps to the faith of christians , i know none that deny ; but that by vertue of their definitions any thing becomes necessary to be believed , which was not so before , remains yet to be proved . you much wonder his lordship should father that saying on vincentius , that , if new doctrines be added to the old , the church , which is sacrarium veritatis , the repository of verity , may be changed in lupanar errorum , which , his lordship saith , he is loth to english : for you tell us , that vincentius is so far from entertaining the least thought of it , that he presently adds , deus avertat , god forbid it should be so . a stout inference ! just as if one should say , the church of rome may be in time overspread with the mahumetan religion , but god forbid , it should be so ; were he not an excellent disputer , who should hence inferr it impossible ever to be so . what you add out of vincentius only proves , that he did not believe it was so in his time , but doth not in the least prove , that he believed it impossible that ever it should be so afterwards ; but notwithstanding all that you say , it is evident enough , that vincentius believed it a very supposable case , by that question he puts elsewhere . what if any new contagion doth not only endeavour to defile a part only , but the whole church ? in which , he saith , we are to adhere to antiquity . if you answer , he speaks only of an endeavour : it is soon replyed , that he speaks of such an endeavour as puts men to dispute a question , what they are to do in such a case , and he resolves at that time , they are not to adhere to the judgement of the present church , but to that of antiquity , which is all we desire in that case , viz. that the present church may so far add to matters of faith , that we can in no reason be obliged to rely only upon her judgement . wherein we are to consider , the question is not of that you call the diffusive , but the representative church , all which may be overspread , and yet but a part of the other ; but yet if that church , whose judgement you say only is to be relyed on may be so infected , it is all one as to those who are to be guided by her judgement , whether the other be or no. for here eadem est ratio non entis & non apparentis , because it is not the reality , but the manifestation which is the ground of mens relying on the churches judgement . so that if as to all outward appearance and all judicial acts of the church , she may recede from the ancient faith , and add novitia veteribus , ( whether all particular persons in it do so or no ) all ground of relying on the judgement of that church , is thereby taken away . whether it be the church her self , or hereticks in the church which make these additions , is very little material , if these hereticks , who add these new articles of faith , may carry themselves so cunningly as to get to themselves the reputation of the catholick church : and so that which ought to have been sacrarium veritatis , may become impiorum & turpium errorum lupanar : which your church is concerned not to have englished ; but by the help of rider , and other good authours of yours , it is no hard matter to come to understand it . and thus we see how much you have abused his lordship , in charging him with a threefold falsification of vincentius lerinensis . the second thing which his lordship answers , is , that all determinations of the church are not made firm to us by one and the same divine revelation ; because some are made by scripture , and others , as stapleton saith , without any evident or probable testimony of holy writ : though therein bellarmine falls quite off , and confesses in express terms , that nothing can be certain by certainty of faith , unless it be contained immediately in the word of god : or be deduced thence by evident consequence . your only design here , is , to vindicate your two great champions from contradicting each other , which though it be of little consequence to the main assertion of his lordship , which you knew well enough , and therefore carefully avoid the main charge of your enemy , to part two of your quarrelling friends : yet since you intend this for a tryal of your skill , we must see how well you play your prize . stapleton , you say , means that we must submit to the determinations of the church and the traditions she approves , though they be not expresly contained in scripture . excellently well guessed at stapletons meaning ! when the very words you cite out of him are , we ought not to deny our assent in matters of faith , though we have them only by tradition , or the decisions of the church against hereticks , and not confirmed with evident or probable testimony of scripture . what a rare interpreter are you grown since your acquaintance with rider , and other english lexicons ? who make not denying assent in matters of faith , to be the same with submitting to the churches determinations , when you know well enough , we plead for submission to the churches determinations , where there may be a liberty as to internal assent : and it is as good to make no evident or probable testimony of scripture the same with not being expresly contained in scripture ; as though nothing which was not expresly contained in scripture , could have any probable testimony from thence . and from this we may guess what an easie matter it is for you to accommodate all persons who differ , if one sayes yes , and the other no , you will tell them they do not differ , but that one of them by yes , means no ; and the other by no , means yes . just so here you reconcile stapleton and bellarmine ; for you say , stapleton by [ no probable testimony ] means some kind of probable testimony , viz. such as though not express , may be yet deduced from scripture ; and bellarmine , when he speaks of gods written word , as the ground of certainty , means that which is neither gods word , nor yet written , viz. tradition . i never met with one who had a better faculty of reconciling than you seem to have by this attempt . but his lordship had prevented this subterfuge as to bellarmine and stapleton , as if stapleton spake of the word of god written , and bellarmine of the word of god unwritten ( as he calls tradition ) . for bellarmine , saith he , there treats of the knowledge which a man hath of the certainty of his own salvation . and i hope a. c. will not tell us , there 's any tradition extant unwritten , by which particular men may have assurance of their several salvations . therefore bellarmine 's whole disputation there , is quite beside the matter : or else , he must speak of the written word , and so lye cross to stapleton as is mentioned . you tell us , this reason is very strange : but i dare say , yours exceeds it in strangeness , which is , because bellarmines design was to shew , there was no such unwritten tradition to be found . but doth bellarmine dispute against any body or no body ? if he disputes against any body upon your principles , those whom he disputes against must be such , who assert that men may have certainty of faith concerning their salvation from tradition ; and you would do well to tell us , who those were that pretended that there was a tradition or unwritten word delivered down from the apostles , that they should be saved . and though bellarmine was not to affirm this , yet those he disputed against , upon your principles must be supposed to do it . but certainly you thought none of your readers did ever intend to look into bellarmine for the place in controversie ; for if they did , nothing could be more plain , than that bellarmines reason against catharinus and others , proceeds wholly and only upon the written word . for , . when he saith , that nothing can be certain with the certainty of faith , but what is either immediately contained in the word of god , or may be deduced thence by evident consequence , because faith can rest on nothing , but the authority of gods word ; he adds , that of this principle , neither the catholicks nor the hereticks doubt . but i pray , do those whom bellarmine there calls hereticks , acknowledge the unwritten word as a foundation for certainty of faith in the case disputed ? therefore it is plain , he speaks exclusively of a written word . . when he mentions the assumption , he evidently explains himself of the written word ; for , saith he , there is no such proposition contained in the word of god , that such and such a particular person is justified ; for there are none mentioned therein save mary magdalen , and a certain paralytick of whom it is said , their sins are forgiven them . caeteri homines in sacris literis nè nominantur quidem . and will rider , and your other good friends the english lexicons , help you to interpret sacrae literae by unwritten traditions ? could any one that had either any common sense left in him , or else had not a design most grosly to impose on his readers , offer to perswade men , that bellarmine could here understand the word of god in a sense common to scripture and tradition . if you can prove that bellarmine saith otherwise elsewhere , you are so far from reconciling bellarmine and stapleton , that you will not easily reconcile bellarmine to himself . the remainder of this chapter either refers to something to be handled afterwards as the infallibility of the church and councils , or else barely repeats what hath been discussed already concerning your sense of fundamentals , and therefore i dare not presume so far on the reader 's patience , as to give him the same things over and over . chap. iv. the protestant doctrine of fundamentals vindicated . the unreasonableness of demanding a catalogue of fundamentals . the creed contains the fundamentals of christian communion . the belief of scripture supposed by it . the dispute concerning the sense of christ's descent into hell , and mr. rogers his book confessed by t. c. impertinent : with others of the same nature . t. c ' s . fraud , in citing his lordships words . of papists and protestants vnity . the moderation of the church of england , compared with that of rome . her grounds of faith justified . infant-baptism how far proved out of scripture alone . this chapter begins with a very pertinent question , as you call it : we might the easier believe it to be so , because it is none of your own proposing ; but yet your very calling it , a pertinent question , renders it liable to suspicion , and upon examination it will be found both unreasonable and impertinent . the question was , what points the bishop would account fundamental ; and that you may shew how necessary this question was , you add ; for if he will have some fundamental , which we are bound to believe under pain of damnation ; and others not fundamental , which we may , without sin , question , or deny ; it behoves us much to know , what they are . i have ever desired , say you , a satisfactory answer from protestants to this question , but could never yet have it in the sense demanded . an unhappy man you are , who , it seems , have in your time propounded more foolish questions , than a great many wise men were never able to answer . but , is it not every jot as reasonable , that since your church pretends to the power of making things necessary to the salvation of all , which were not so before , we should have from you an exact catalogue of all your churches definitions ? if for that , you referr us to the confession of faith , at the end of the council of trent ; so , may not we , with far greater reason , send you back to the apostolical creed ? there being no objection which will hold against this , being a catalogue of our fundamentals , but will hold against that being a catalogue of yours . nay , you assert such things your self concerning the necessity of believing things defined by the church , as make it impossible for you to assign the definite number of such things , as are necessary for all persons , and therefore it is very unreasonable to demand it of us . for still , when you speak , that the things defined by the church , are necessary to the salvation of all , you add , where they are sufficiently propounded ; so that the measure of fundamentals depends on the sufficiency of the proposition . now , will you undertake to assign what number of things are sufficiently propounded to the belief of all persons ? can you set down the exact bounds , as to all individuals , when their ignorance is inexcusable , and when not ? can you tell what the measure of their capacity was ? what allowance god makes for the prejudices of education , where there is a mind desirous of instruction ? will you say , god accounts all those things sufficiently proposed to mens belief , which you judge to be so ? or , that all men are bound to think those things necessary to salvation , which you think so ? by what means shall the churches power of defining matters of faith , be sufficiently proposed to men as an article of faith ? either by its own definition , or without ? if by its ; the thing is proposed to be believed , which is supposed to be believed already , before that proposition ; or else the enquiry returns with as great force , why should i believe that definition more than any other ? if without it ; then the sufficiency of proposition , and the necessity of believing depends not on the churches definition . these questions i am apt to think as pertinent and necessary as yours was : and , now you know my sense , and are so discontented you could never meet with a satisfactory answer from protestants , prevent the same dissatisfaction in me , by giving a punctual answer to such necessary questions . but , if you think the demands unreasonable , because they depend on such things , which none can know but god himself ; i pray accept of that as a satisfactory answer to your own very pertinent question . but if the question be propounded not concerning what things are fundamental and necessary to particular persons , which on the reasons formerly given , it is impossible to give a catalogue of , but , of such things which are necessary to be owned for christian communion , as i have shewed this question of fundamentals ought only to be taken here ; then his lordship's answer was more pertinent than the question , viz. that all the points of the creed were such : for , saith he ; since the fathers make the creed the rule of faith ; since the agreeing sense of scripture , with those articles , are the two regular precepts , by which a divine is governed about the faith ; since your own council of trent decrees , that it is that principle of faith , in which all that profess christ , do necessarily agree , & fundamentum firmum & unicum , not the firm only , but the only foundation ; since it is excommunication ipso jure , for any man to contradict the articles contained in that creed ; since the whole body of faith is so contained in the creed , as that the substance of it was believed even before the coming of christ ; though not so expresly as since , in the number of the articles : since bellarlarmin confesses , that all things simply necessary for all mens salvation , are in the creed and decalogue , what reason can you have to except ? thus far his lordship : though from hence it appears , what little reason you have to except ; yet because of that , i expect your exceptions the sooner : and therefore very fairly passing by the sense of the fathers , you ask concerning the council of trent ; what if , that call the creed the only foundation ? are you come to a what if , with the council of trent ? but , i suppose , it is not from disputing its authority , but its meaning ; for you would seem to understand it only of prime articles of faith , and not of such as all are bound upon sufficient proposition expresly to believe ; for that is all the sense i can make of your words . but , whoever was so silly , as to say , that all such things which are to be believed on sufficient proposition that they are revealed by god , are contained in the creed ? when you seem to imply , that this was the sense the question was propounded in , it is a sign you little attend to the consequence of things : when it is most evident , that the question was started concerning the greek church , and therefore must referr only to such fundamentals , as are necessary to be owned in order to the being of a true church . and when you can prove , that any other articles are necessary to that , besides those contained in the creed , you will do something to purpose , but not before . but , you suppose them to take the creed in a very large sense , who would lap up in the folds of it all particular points of faith whatever : and i am sure , this is not the sense it is to be taken in here , nor that in which his lordship took it . he saith indeed , that if he had said , that those articles only which are expressed in the creed , are fundamental , it would have been hard to have excluded the scripture , upon which the creed it self in every point is grounded . for nothing is supposed to shut out its own foundation . and this is built on very good reason . for the things contained in the creed are proposed as matters to be believed ; all faith must suppose a divine testimony revealing those things to us , as the ground on which we believe them ; this divine testimor is never pretended to be contained in the creed ; but that it is only a summary collection of the most necessary points which god hath revealed ; and therefore something else must be supposed as the ground and formal reason why we assent to the truth of those things therein contained . so that the creed must suppose the scripture , as the main and only foundation of believing the matters of faith therein contained . but say you , if all the scripture be included in the creed , there appears no great reason of scruple , why the same should not be said of traditions , and other points ; especially of that for which we admit scripture it self . but , do you make no difference between the scripture being supposed as the ground of faith , and all scripture being contained in the creed ? and doth not his lordship tell you , that though some articles may be fundamental , which are infolded in the creed , it would not follow , that therefore some unwritten traditions were fundamental ; for , though they may have authority , and use , in the church , as apostolical , yet are they not fundamental in the faith. and as for that tradition , that the books of holy scripture are divine , and infallible in every part ; he promises to handle it , when he comes to the proper place for it . and there we shall readily attend what you have to object to what his lordship saith about it . but yet you say , his lordship doth not answer the question , as far as it was necessary to be answered ; we say , he doth . no , say you : for the question arising concerning the greek churches errour , whether it were fundamental or no ; mr. fisher demanded of the bishop , what points he would account fundamental : to which he answers , that all points contained in the creed , are such , but yet not only they ; and therefore this was no direct answer to the question ; for , though the greeks errour was not against the creed , yet it may be against some other fundamental article not contained in the creed . this you call fine shuffling . to which i answer , that when his lordship speaks of its not being fundamentum unicum in that sense , to exclude all things not contained in the creed from being fundamental ; he spake it with an immediate respect to the belief of scripture , as an infallible rule of faith : for , saith he , the truth is , i said , and say still , that all the points of the apostles creed , as they are there expressed , are fundamental . and herein i say no more than some of your best learned have said before me . but , i never said , or meant , that they only are fundamental ; that they are fundamentum unicum , is the council of trent's , 't is not mine . mine is , that the belief of scripture to be the word of god and infallible , is an equal , or rather a preceding principle of faith , with , or to , the whole body of the creed . now , what reason can you have to call this , shuffling , unless you will rank the greeks errour equal with the denying the scripture to be the word of god ? otherwise , his lordship's answer is as full and pertinent , as your cavil is vain and trifling . his lordship adds , that this agrees with one of your own great masters , albertus magnus , who is not far from the proposition , in terminis . to which your exceptions are so pitiful , that i shall answer them , without reciting them ; for he that supposeth the sense of scripture , joyned with the articles of faith , to be the rule of faith , as albertus doth , must certainly suppose the belief of the scripture as the word of god , else how is it possible its sense should be the rule of faith ? again , it is not enough for you to say , that he believed other articles of faith , besides these in the creed ; but , that he made them a rule of faith together with the sense of scripture . . all this while here is not one word of tradition , as the ground on which these articles of faith were to be believed . if this therefore be your way of answering , i know none will contend with you for fine shuffling . what follows concerning the right sense of the article of the descent of christ into hell ; since you say , you will not much trouble your self about it , as being not fundamental either in his lordships sense , or ours ; i look on that expression as sufficient to excuse me from undertaking so needless a trouble , as the examining the several senses of it ; since you acknowledge , that no one determinate sense is fundamental , and therefore not pertinent to our business . much less is that which follows concerning mr. rogers his book and authority ; in which , and that which depends upon it , i shall only give you your own words for an answer , that truly i conceive it of small importance to spend much time upon this subject ; and shall not so far contradict my judgement as to do that , which , i think , when it is done , is to very little purpose . of the same nature is that of catharinus ; for it signifies nothing to us , whether you account him an heretick or no , who know , men are not one jot more or less heretick , for your accounting them to be so or not . you call the bishop , your good friend , in saying , that all protestants do agree with the church of england in the main exceptions , which they joyntly take against the roman church , as appears by their several confessions . for ( say you ) by their agreeing in this , but in little or nothing else , they sufficiently shew themselves enemies to the true church , which is one , and only one , by vnity of doctrine ; from whence they must needs be judged to depart , by reason of their divisions . as good a friend as you say his lordship was to you , in that saying of his , i am sure you ill requite him for his kindness , by so palpable a falsification of his words , and abuse of his meaning . and all that friendship you pretend , lyes only in your leaving out that part of the sentence , which takes away all that you build on the rest . for where doth his lordship say , that the protestants only agree in their main exceptions against the roman church , and not in their doctrines ? nay , doth he not expresly say , that they agree in the chiefest doctrines , as well as main exceptions , which they take against the church of rome , as appears by their several confessions . but you , very conveniently to your purpose , and with a fraud suitable to your cause , leave out the first part of agreement in the chiefest doctrines , and mention only the latter , lest your declamation should be spoiled as to your unity , and our disagreements . but we see by this , by what means you would perswade men of both , by arts and devices , fit only to deceive such , who look only on the appearance and outside of things ; and yet even there , he that sees not your growing divisions , is a great stranger to the christian world . your great argument of the vnity of your party , because , whatever the private opinions of men are , they are ready to submit their judgements to the censure and determination of the church ; if it be good , will hold as well ( or better ) for our unity , as yours , because all men are willing to submit their judgements to scripture , which is agreed on all sides to be infallible . if you say , that it cannot be known what scripture determines , but it may be easily what the church defines : it is easily answered , that the event shews it to be far otherwise ; for how many disputes are there , concerning the power of determining matters of faith ? to whom it belongs , in what way it must be managed , whether parties ought to be heard in matters of doctrine , what the meaning of the decrees are , when they are made , which raise as many divisions as were before them , as appears by the decrees of the council of trent , and the latter of pope innocent relating to the five propositions : so that upon the whole it appears , setting aside force and fraud ( which are excellent principles of christian vnity ) we are upon as fair terms of vnion as you are among your selves . you tell us , that your church doth anathematize only such persons as are obstinate ; but who are they whom she accounts obstinate ? even all who dissent from her in any punctilio . and therefore this is a singular piece of moderation in your church . and , you believe the troubles of christendom rather come from too great freedom taken in matters of faith , than from any severity in the church of rome . the truth is , you have excellent waies of ending controversies , much like perswading men to put out their eyes , to end the disputes about the nature of colours ; and if they will not hearken to such prudent counsel , they are pronounced obstinate and perverse , for offering to keep their eyes in their heads . and if men will not say , that white is black , when your church bids them do it , these men are the troublers of israel , and the fomenters of the discords of the christian world . but if your church had kept to the primitive simplicity and moderation , and not offered to define matters of faith ; the occasion of most of the controversies of the christian world , had been taken away . believe what you will , and speak what you list ; there are none who consider what they believe or speak , but easily discover whence the great dissentions of the christian world have risen , viz. from the ambition and vsurpation of the church of rome , which hath not been contented to have introduced many silly superstitions into the publick exercise of devotion ; but , when any of these came to be discovered , thought it her best course to defend her corruptions with greater ; by inforcing men to the belief of them , and thereby rendring a separation from her communion unavoidable by all those who sought to retrieve the piety and devotion of the primitive church . and yet this must be call'd schism , and the persons attempting it hereticks , by that same pious and tender-hearted mother of yours , who loves her children so dearly , that if they do but desire any reformation of abuses , she takes all possible care they shall complain no more . as though the only way to prevent quarrelling in the world , were to cut out peoples tongues , and cut off their arms ; such a kind of vnity hath your church shewed her self very desirous of , where ever power and conveniency have met for the carrying it on . but , i hope , you will give us leave , not to envy the vnity of those , who therefore agree in the church , because , as soon as they do in the least differ from it , they are pronounced not to be of it , for opposing the determinations of it . and yet , notwithstanding , the violence and fraud used in your church to preserve its vnity , the world is alarm'd with the noise of its dissentions , and the increase of the differing parties , who manage their contests with great heats and animosities against each other , under all the great pretences of your vnity . i cannot but therefore judge it a very prudent expression of his lordship , that as the church of england is not such a shrew to her children , as to deny her blessing , or denounce an anathema against them , if some peaceably dissent in some particulars remoter from the foundation : so , if the church of rome , since she grew to her greatness , had not been so fierce in this course , and too particular in determining too many things , and making them matters of necessary belief , which had gone for many hundred of years before , only for things of pious opinion ; christendom ( i perswade my self ) had been in happier peace at this day , then , i doubt , we shall ever live to see it . and it is an excellent reason you give , why the church of rome doth impose her doctrine on the whole world , under pain of damnation ; because it is not in her power to do otherwise . there is little hopes then of amendment in her , if she thinks so . but , you tell us , christ hath commanded her to do it . what hath he commanded her to do ? to add to his doctrine by making things necessary , which he never made to be so ? is it in that place , where he bids the apostles , to teach all that he commanded them , that he gives power to the church , to teach more than he commanded : but this is a new kind of supererogation , to make more articles of faith , than ever men required to make . where still is this command extant in scripture ? not sure any where , but in that most apposite place produced to that , and all other good purposes which have nothing else to prove them ; even dic ecclesiae , if he will not hear the church , let him be to thee as a heathen and a publican ; therefore the church of rome is commanded by christ , to impose her doctrine on the whole church , upon pain of damnation . sure you will pronounce men obstinate , that dare in the least question this , after so irrefragable a demonstration of it . and you may well cry , scripture is not fit to decide controversies , when you consider the lame consequences you , above all men , derive from it . his lordship shews the moderation of the church of england , even in that canon which a. c. looks on as the most severe , where she pronounces excommunication on such as affirm , that the articles are in any part superstitious or erronious , &c. by these things . . that it is not meant of mens private judgements , but of what they boldly and publickly affirm . . that it is one thing to hold contrary to some part of an article ; and anotherp , ositively to affirm , that the articles in any part are superstitious or erronious . . the church of england doth this only for thirty nine articles ; but the church of rome doth it , for above a hundred in matter of doctrine . . the church of england never declared , that every one of her articles are fundamental in the faith ; but the church of rome requires , that all be believed as fundamental , when once the church hath determined them . . the church of england prescribes only to her own children , and by those articles provides but for her own peaceable consent in those doctrines of truth . but the church of rome severely imposes her doctrine upon the whole world , under pain of damnation . to all these very considerable instances of our churches moderation , your answer is , the question is not , whether the english congregation , or the roman church be more severe ; but , whether the english protestants severity be not unreasonable ; supposing she be subject to errour , in defining those articles . for after many words , to the same , i. e. little purpose , the reason you give for it , is , that every just excommunication inflicted for opposing of doctrine , must necessarily suppose the doctrine opposed to be infallibly true , and absolutely exempt from errour ; otherwise the sentence it self would be unreasonable and unjust , as wanting sufficient ground . from whence you charge protestants with greater tyranny and injustice towards their people , than they can with any colour or pretence of reason , charge upon the roman church , which excommunicates no man , but for denying such doctrine as is both infallibly true , and also fundamental , at least as to its formal object . this is the strength of all you say , which will be reduced to this short question , whether the proceedings of that church be more unreasonable , which excommunicates such as openly oppose her doctrine , supposing her fallible ; or of that church , which excommunicates all who will not believe whatever she defines to be infallibly true . this is the true state of the controversie , which must be judged by the resolving another question , whether it be not a more unreasonable vsurpation , to bind men upon pain of damnation hereafter , and excommunication here , to believe every thing infallible which a church defines , or to bind men to peace to a churches determinations , reserving to men the liberty of their judgements , on pain of excommunication , if they violate that peace . for it is plain on the one side , where a church pretends infallibility , the excommunication is directed against the persons for refusing to give internal assent to what she defines : but , where a church doth not pretend to that , the excommunication respects wholly that overt act , whereby the churches peace is broken . and if a church be bound to look to her own peace , no doubt she hath power to excommunicate such as openly violate the bonds of it ; which is only an act of caution in a church , to preserve her self in vnity ; but where it is given out , that the church is infallible , the excommunication must be so much the more unreasonable , because it is against those internal acts of the mind , over which the church , as such , hath no direct power . and thus , i hope , you see how much more just and reasonable the proceedings of our church are then of yours ; and that , eo nomine , because she pretends to be infallible , and ours doth not . his lordship shews further in vindication of the church of england , and her grounds of faith , that the church of england grounded her positive articles upon scripture ; and her negative do refute there , where the thing affirmed by them , is not affirmed by scripture , nor directly to be concluded out of it . and this ( he saith ) is the main principle of all protestants , that scripture is sufficient to salvation , and contains in it all things necessary to it . the fathers are plain , the schoolmen not strangers in it . and stapleton himself confesses as much . nay , and you dare not deny it , as to all material objects of faith , and your formal here signifies nothing . and when a. c. saith , that the church of england grounded her positive articles upon scripture , if themselves may be judges in their own cause . his lordship answers , we are contented to be judged by the joynt and constant belief of the fathers , which lived within the first four or five hundred years after christ , when the church was at the best , and by the councils held within those times , and to submit to them in all those points of doctrine . this offer you grant to be very fair , and you do , for your selves , promise the same , and say , you will make it good upon all occasions . which we shall have tryal of before the end of this book . to what his lordship saith , concerning the negative articles , that they refute where the thing affirmed by them is either not affirmed in scripture , or not directly to be concluded out of it . a. c. replies , that the baptism of infants is not expresly ( at least not evidently ) affirmed in scripture , nor directly ( at least not demonstratively ) concluded out of it . here two things his lordship answers . . to the expression . . to the thing . . to the expression ; that he is no way satisfied with a. c. his addition ( not expresly , at least not evidently : ) for ( saith he ) what means he ? if he speak of the l●tter of scripture , then whatsoever is expresly , is evidently in the scripture , and so his addition is in vain . if he speak of the meaning of scripture , then his addition is cunning . for many things are expresly in scripture , which yet in their meaning are not evidently there . and , as little satisfied his lordship declares himself , with that other ( nor directly , at least not demonstratively , ) because many things are directly concluded , which are not demonstratively . to the first you answer , that a point may be exprest , yet not evidently exprest ; otherwise there could be no doubt concerning what were exprest in scripture , since men never question things that are evident . now , say you , the baptism of infants must not only ●e exprest , but evidently exprest , to prove it sufficiently , i. e. undeniably , by scripture alone . but the question being concerning matters of doctrine , and not meer words , those things are expresly affirmed , which are evidently , and no other : for it is one thing for words to be expresly in scripture , and another for doctrines to be so . for these latter are no further expresly affirmed there , than as there is evidence , that the meaning of such words doth contain such a doctiine in them . as to take your own instance , this is my body , we grant the words to be express ; but we deny , that which he had then in his hands was his real body ; ( for his hands were part of his real body ) now , we do not say , that the doctrine of transubstantiation is expresly , but not evidently contained here ; for , we say , the doctrine is not there at all , but only that those are the express words ; this is my body ; as it is in other figurative expressions in scripture . but that which causeth this litigation about words , is , that you look upon that which is evident and undeniable to be all one , whereas there may be sufficient evidence , where all men are not perswaded by it . and so you would put his lordship to prove out of scripture , infant-baptism evidently and demonstratively , i. e. undeniably ; whereas his lordship supposeth it enough for his purpose , to prove it by such sufficient evidence , as may convince any reasonable man. and this was all his lordship meant , when he said , that our negative articles do refute , where the thing is not affirmed in scripture , or not directly concluded out of it . and , if you will stand to the strict sense of these words , you will be forced to prove all those doctrines of your church , which ours denies to be true , so evidently and demonstratively , i. e. undeniably , as you would put him upon for the proof of infant-baptism . to leave therefore this verbal dispute , and come to the thing : his lordship saith , that it may be concluded directly out of scripture , that infants ought to be baptized , &c. for which , he insists on two places of scriture , joh. . . except a man be born again of water , and of the spirit , &c. which being interpreted according to the sense of the fathers , and the ancient church , and as your own party acknowledge it ought to be interpreted , do evidently assert infant-baptism . by which , your exception of a pelagian anabaptist , who denies original sin , and from thence saith , that infants cannot be born again , is taken away ; for the same tradition of the ancient church , which from hence inferrs the baptism of infants , doth it upon that ground , because they are guilty of original sin , as you might have seen by his lordship's citations to that purpose . the other place he insists on , is , act. . , . which , by the acknowledgement of ferus and salmeron , holds for infant-baptism . but , when you say , that you would not weaken the argument , from joh. . for infant-baptism ; because you only would shew , that it cannot be proved demonstratively from scripture alone , against a perverse heretick : you seem not much to consider what those perverse hereticks ( as you call them ) hold as to infant-baptism , which is , not meerly that infant-baptism is not commanded in scripture , but that it is a thing unlawful , as being a perverting of the institution of christ , as to the subject of baptism . for the main question between us and the antipaedobaptists , is not , concerning an absolute and express command for baptizing infants ; but whether our blessed saviour hath not by a positive precept so determined the subject of baptism ; viz. adult persons professing the faith , that the alteration of the subject , viz. in baptizing infants , be not a deviation from , and perversion of the institution of christ in a substantial part of it ; or in short thus , whether our saviour hath so determined the subject of baptism , as to exclude infants . and although , the question being thus stated , the proof ought to lye on those who affirm it , yet taking in only the help of scripture and reason , it were no difficult matter to prove directly and evidently , that infants are so far from being excluded baptism by the institution of christ , that there are as many grounds as are necessary to a matter of that nature , to prove that the baptizing them is suitable to the institution of christ , and agreeable to the state of the church under the gospel . for , if there were any ground to exclude them , it must be either the incapacity of the subject , or some express precept and institution of our saviour . but neither of these can be supposed to do it . . not incapacity as to the ends of baptism : for clearing which , these two things must be premised : . that the rule and measure , as to the use and capacity of divine institutions , is to be fetched from the end of them . for , this was the ground of the circumcision of the proselytes under the law : and this was the way the apostles did interpret christs commission for baptizing all nations , as to the capacity of the subjects of it , acts . . can any man forbid water , that these should not be baptized , which have received the holy ghost , as well as we : where the question was concerning the subject of baptism . for it might be made evident , that the apostles at first did interpret their commission of baptizing all nations , only of the jews of all nations : for after that , st. peter looked on the gentiles as unclean : and the disciples at jerusalem charged st. peter with it , as a great fault , for going in to men uncircumcised , acts . . therefore we see when the question was concerning the subject of baptism ; the only argument is drawn from the design and ends of it ; that they who were capable of the thing signified ought not to be denyed the use of the sign . and thus by a parity of reason built on equal grounds , those who are capable of the great things represented in baptism and confirmed by it , viz. gods pardoning grace , and acceptation to eternal life , ought not to be denyed the external sign , which is baptism it self . and therefore , . where there is a capacity as to the main ends of an institution , an incapacity as to some ends doth not exclude from it . as is most evident in the baptism of our blessed saviour , in whom was a greater incapacity as to the main ends of baptism , then possibly can be in infants ; for his baptism could not at all be for the remission of sins . now we see , although there were but one end , and that a very general one mentioned , that he might fulfill all righteousness , matth. . . yet we see , that was sufficient to perswade john to baptize him . whereby we see evidently in this practise of our saviour built on a general and common ground , that a capacity as to one end of a positive institution , is sufficient to make such a practice lawful , and in some cases a duty . these two general principles being laid down ; it were easie to shew , . that what incapacity there is in infants , is not destructive of the main ends of baptism ; which is chiefly thought to be the incapacity of understanding the nature or ends of the institution ; and if that exclude , it must either be , that it is a thing repugnant to reason , that any divine institution should be applyed to persons uncapable of understanding the nature and ends of it , which would highly reflect on the wisdome of god in appointing circumcision for children eight dayes old , who were certainly as uncapable of understanding the ends of that , as our children are of baptism ; or else , that there is some peculiarity in the institution of baptism , which must exclude them from it under the gospel : which that there is not , will appear presently . . that there is a capacity in infants as to the main ends of baptism , which have either an aspect from god to us , in regard of its institution , or from us to god , in regard of our undertaking it . now the chief ends of a divine institution as such , are such as respect gods intention in it towards us , in which respect it is properly a sign ; but as it respects god from us , it is properly a ceremony betokening our profession and restipulation towards god. now the ends of it as a sign , are to represent and exhibit to us the nature of the grace of the gospel as it cleanseth and purifieth , and to confirm the truth of the covenant on gods part , and to enstate the partakers of it in the priviledges of the church of god ; now as to all these ends , there is no incapacity in infants to exclude them from baptism , because of them . so that nothing can seem wanting of the ends of baptism , but that which seems most ceremonial in it , which is the personal restipulation , which yet may reasonably be supplyed by sponsors , so far as to make it of the nature of a solemn contract and covenant in sight of the congregation . thus far it appears from scripture and reason , that no incapacity in infants doth exclude them from baptism . . that there is no direct or consequential prohibition made by our blessed saviour to exclude them . for granting that he had the power to limit and determine the subject of baptism , the question is , whether he hath so far done it as to exclude infants ? and nothing of that nature is pretended , before the last commission given to the apostles , of teaching and baptizing all nations , matth. . . and that by this expression there is no exclusion of infants will appear ; . if our saviour had intended the gathering of churches among the gentiles according to the law of moses , he could hardly have expressed it after another manner then thus , go proselyte all nations , circumcising them . now i appeal to any mans judgement and reason , whether in such words it could be imagined , that the infants of such gentile-proselytes should be excluded circumcision ; and what reason can there be then from these words to imagine , that our saviour did intend to exclude the infants of gentile-converts from baptism ? . we must consider , what apprehensions those whom our saviour directed these words to , viz. the apostles , had concerning the church-state of such as were in an external covenant with god , which they measured by the general reason of that covenant which god made with the jews ; can we then think , that when our saviour bid the apostles gather whole nations into churches , they should imagine the infants were excluded out of it , when they were so solemnly admitted into it , in that dispensation which was in use among them ? . the gentiles being now to be first proselyted to christianity , the order of the words was necessary : for whoever imagined , but that such as were wholly strangers to christianity , as those were whom christ there speaks of , were to be first taught , or discipled , before they were to be baptized ? for suppose , it should be said to such persons among whom infant baptism is the most used , go and disciple the indians , baptizing them , &c. could any one conceive the intention of such a commission was to exclude the infants of all those indians from baptism , when it was well known that infant-baptism was used among those who came with that commission ? and therefore neither these words here , nor those mark. . . he that believeth and is baptized , &c. can in reason be so interpreted as to exclude infants , when the meer order of nature , and necessity of the thing , requires that those who first own christianity by being baptized , ought , before such baptism , not only to believe , but to make profession of that faith ; but this reacheth not at all to the case of such infants as are born of those persons . for if any one had said to abraham , he that believes , and is circumcised , shall be saved , could it have been so interpreted , that the intention was to exclude his children from circumcision ? no more ought these words of our saviour be strained to a greater prejudice of the right of infants to baptism , then those other to their right of circumcision . and thus far we see there is no ground from scriptures , or reason , why infants should be excluded . and , were it not too large a digression , i might further shew how suitable the baptism of infants is to the administration of things under the gospel ; but i shall only propound some considerations concerning it . . that if it had been christs intention to exclude infants , ●here had been far greater reason for an express prohibition ; then of an express command , if his intention were to admit them : because this was suitable to the general grounds of gods dispensation among them before . . it is very hard to conceive that the apostles thought infants excluded by christ , when after christs ascension they looked on themselves as bound to observe the jewish customes , even when they had baptized many thousand people . . if admission of infants to baptism were a meer relick of judaism , it seems strange that none of the judaizing christians should be charged with it , who yet are charged with the observation of other judaical rites . . since the jewish christians were so much offended at the neglect of circumcision , acts . . can we in reason think they should quietly bear their childrens being wholly thrown out of the church ; as they would have been , if neither admitted to circumcision nor baptism ? . had it been contrary to christs institution , we should not have had such evidence of its early practice in the church as we have . and here i acknowledge the use of apostolical tradition to manifest this to us ; in which sense i acknowledge what st. austin saith , that the custom of our mother the church is not to be contemned or thought superfluous , neither is it to be believed but as an apostolical tradition . for that the words are to be read so , ( and not , as you translate them , nor at all to be believed unless it had been an apostolical tradition , from thence inferring , that infant-baptism were not to be believed at all , but for tradition ) appears by three ancient manuscripts at oxford , as well as the course of the sentence , and st. austins judgement in other places , viz. that it ought to be read , nec omninò credenda nisi apostolica traditio esse , and not esset . but we grant that the practice of the church from apostolical times is a great confirmation , that it was never christs intention to have infants excluded from baptism . and thus much may suffice to shew , what evidence we have from scripture and reason , without recourse wholly to tradition , or building upon any more controverted places , to justifie the churches practice in infant-baptism , which is as much as is necessary for us to do . what follows concerning the founding divine faith on apostolical tradition , will be fully considered in the succeeding controversie concerning the resolution of faith , to which we now hasten . chap. v. the romanists way of resolving faith. the ill consequences of the resolution of faith by the churches infallibility . the grand absurdities of it , manifested by its great unreasonableness in many particulars . the certain foundations of faith unsettled by it , as is largely proved . the circle unavoidable by their new attempts . the impossibility of proving the church infallible by the way that moses , christ , and his apostles were proved to be so . of the motives of credibility , and how far they belong to the church . the difference between science and faith considered , and the new art of mens believing with their wills . the churches testimony must be , according to their principles , the formal object of faith. of their esteem of fathers , scripture , and councils . the rare distinctions concerning the churches infallibility discussed . how the church can be infallible by the assistance of the holy ghost , yet not divinely infallible , but in a manner and after a sort . t. c. applauded for his excellent faculty in contradicting himself . he that hath a mind to betray an excellent cause , may more advantagiously do it , by bringing weak and insufficient evidences for it , then by the greatest heat and vigour of opposition against it . for there cannot possibly be any greater prejudice done to a weighty and important truth , then to perswade men to believe it on such grounds , which are , if not absolutely false , yet much more disputable then the thing it self . for hereby the minds of men are taken off from the native evidence , which the truth enquired after offers to them , and build their assent upon the certainty of the medium's suggested as the only grounds to establish a firm assent upon . by which means , when upon severe enquiry , the falsity and insufficiency of those grounds is discovered , the person so discovering lyes under a dangerous temptation of calling into question the truth of that , which he finds he assented to upon grounds apparently weak and insufficient . and the more refined and subtle the speculations are , the more sublime and mysterious the matters believed ; the greater still the danger of scepticism is , upon a discovery of the unsoundness of those principles which such things were believed upon . especially , if the more confident and magisterial party of those who profess the belief of such things , do with the greatest heat decry all other wayes as uncertain , and obtrude these principles upon the world , as the only sure foundation for the belief of them . it was anciently a great question among the philosophers , whether there were any certainty in the principles of knowledge ; or , supposing certainty in things , whether there were any undoubted 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or rules to obtain this certainty of knowledge by : if then any one sect of philosophers should have undertaken to prove the certainty that was in knowledge upon this account , because whatever their sect or party delivered was infallibly true ; they had not only shamefully beg'd the thing in dispute , but made it much more lyable to question then before . because every errour discovered in that sect , would not only prove the fondness and arrogance of their pretence of being infallible ; but would , to all such as believed the certainty of things on the authority of their sect , be an argument to disprove all certainty of knowledge , when they once discovered the errours of those whose authority they relyed upon . just such is the case of the church of rome in this present controversie concerning the resolution of faith. the question is , what the certain grounds of our assent are to the principles and rule of christian religion ? the romanists pretend , that there can be no ground of true and divine faith at all , but the infallible testimony of their church ; let then any rational man judge , whether this be not the most compendious way to overthrow the belief of christianity in the world ? for our assent must be wholly suspended upon that supposed infallibility , which when once it falls ( as it unavoidably , doth upon the discovery of the least errour in the doctrine of that church ) what becomes then of the belief of christianity which was built upon that , as it s only sure foundation ? so that it is hardly imaginable , there could be any design more really destructive to christianity , or that hath a greater tendency to atheism then the modern pretence of infallibility , and the jesuits way of resolving faith. which was the reason why his lordship was so unwilling to engage in that controversie , how we know the scriptures to be the word of god : not out of any distrust he had of solving it upon protestant principles , as you vainly suggest ; nor out of any fears of being left himself in that labyrinth , which after all your endeavours you have lost your self and your cause in ; as appears by your attempting this way , and that way to get out , and at last standing in the very middle of that circle you thought your self out of . if his lordship thought this more a question of curiosity then necessity , it was because out of his great charity he supposed them to be christians he had to deal with . but if his charity were therein deceived , you shall see how able we are to make good the grounds of our religion against all adversaries , whether papists or others . and so far is the answering of this question from making the weakness of our cause appear , that i doubt not but to make it evident that our cause stands upon the same grounds which our common christianity doth ; and that we are protestants by the same reason that we are christians . and on the other side , that you are so far from giving any true grounds of christian faith , that nothing will more advance the highest scepticism and irreligion , then such principles as you insist on for resolving faith. the true reason then , why the archbishop declared any unwillingness to enter upon this dispute , was not the least apprehension how insuperably hard the resolution of this question was , ( as you pretend ) but because of the great mischief your party had done in starting such questions you could not resolve with any satisfaction to the common reason of mankind ; and that you run your selves into such a circle in which you conjure up more spirits then ever you are able to lay , by giving those advantages to infidelity , which all your sophistry can never answer on those principles you go upon . that this was the true ground of his lordship's seeming averseness from this controversie , appears by his plain words , where he tells you at first , of the danger of mens being disputed into infidelity by the circle between scripture and tradition , and by his expressing his sense of the great harm you have done by the starting of that question among christians , how we know the scriptures to be the word of god. but although in this respect he might be said to be drawn into it , yet lest you should think his averseness argued any consciousness of his own inability to answer it , you may see how closely he follows it ; with what care and accuracy he handles it , with what strength of reason and evidence he hath discovered the weakness of your way , which he hath done with that success , that he hath put you to miserable shifts to avoid the force of his arguments , as will appear afterwards . i am therefore fully of his mind , that it is a matter of such consequence it deserves to be sifted , were it for no other end , but to lay open the juglings and impostures of your way of resolving faith. which we now come more closely to the discovery of ; for , as you tell us , the bishop propounding diverse wayes of resolving the question , first falls to the attaquing your way , who prove it by tradition and authority of the church . and his first onset is so successful that it makes you visibly recoyle , and withdraw your self into so untenable a shelter as exposeth you to all the attempts which any adversary would desire to make upon you . for , whereas you are charged by his lordship with running into the most absurd kind of argumentation , viz. by proving the scriptures infallible by tradition , and that tradition infallible by scripture ; you think to escape that circle by telling us , that you prove not the churches infallibility by the scripture , but by the motives of credibility belonging to the church . this then being your main principle which your following discourse is built upon , and in your judgement the only probable way to avoid the circle , that you may not think i am afraid of encountering you in your greatest strength , i dare put the issue of the cause upon this promise , that ( besides the weak proofs you bring for the thing it self , which shall after be considered ) if this way of yours be not chargeable with all the absurdities such an attempt is capable of , i will be content to acknowledge what you say to be true , which is , that your way of resolving faith hath no difficulty at all , and that ours is insuperably hard , which i think are as hard terms as can be imposed upon me . now there are two grand absurdities , which any vindication of an opinion are subject to ; first , if it be manifestly unreasonable , and , . if supposing it true , it doth not effect what it was intended for : now these two i undertake to make good against this way of your resolving faith , that it is guilty of the highest unreasonableness ; and that , supposing it true , you are in a circle as much as before . . first , i begin with the unreasonableness of it , which is so great , that i know not , whether i may abstain from calling it ridiculous ; but , that i may not seem to follow you , in asserting confidently , and proving weakly , it will be necessary throughly to examine the grounds on which your opinion stands , and then raise our batteries against it . three grand principles your discourse relyes upon , which are your postulata in order to the resolving faith. . that it is necessary to the believing the scriptures to be the word of god with a divine faith , that it be built on the infallible testimony of the church . . that your church is that catholick church whose testimony is infallible . . that this infallibility is to be known and assented to upon the motives of credibility . these three , i suppose , if your confused discourse were reduced to method , would be freely acknowledged by your self to be the principles on which your resolution of faith depends . and although i am sufficiently assured of the falseness of your two first principles ( as will appear in the sequel of this discourse ) yet that which i have now particularly undertaken , is , the unreasonableness of resolving faith upon these principles taken together , viz. that the infallible testimony of your church , is the only foundation for divine faith ; and that this infallibility can be known only by the motives of credibility . if then in this way of resolving faith , you require assent beyond all proportion of evidence , if you run into the same absurdities you would seem to avoid , if you leave men more uncertain in their religion than you found them ; you cannot certainly excuse this way from unreasonableness , and each of these i undertake to make good against this way of yours , whereby you would assure men of the truth and divinity of the scriptures . . an assent is hereby required beyond all proportion or degree of evidence ; for you require an infallible assent , only upon probable grounds ; which is as much as requiring infallibility in the conclusion , where the premises are only probable . now that you require an assent infallible to the nature of faith , appears by the whole series of your discourse : for , to this very end you require infallibility in the testimony of your church , because otherwise , you say our faith would be uncertain ; it is plain then , you require an infallible assent in faith ; and , it is as plain , that this assent , according to you , can be built only upon probable grounds , for you acknowledge the motives of credibility , to be no more than such ; yet those are all the grounds you give , why the church should be believed infallible . if you say , that which makes the assent infallible , is , that infallibility which is in the churches testimony ; i reply , that this is a most unreasonable thing , to go about to establish an infallible assent , meerly because the testimony is supposed to be in it self infallible : for , assent is not according to the objective certitude of things , but the evidence of them to our vnderstandings . for , is it possible to assent to the truth of a demonstration in a demonstrative manner , because any mathematician tells one , the thing is demonstrable ? for in that case the assent is not according to the evidence of the thing , but according to the opinion such a person hath of him , who tells him , it is demonstrable . nay , supposing that person infallible in saying so , yet if the other hath no means to be infallibly assured , that he is so ; such a ones assent is as doubtful , as if he were not infallible : therefore , supposing the testimony of your church to be really infallible , yet since the means of believing it are but probable and prudential , the assent cannot be according to the nature of the testimony , considered in it self , but according to the reasons which induce me to believe such a testimony infallible . and , in all such cases , where i believe one thing for the sake of another , my assent to the object believed , is according to my assent to the medium on which i believe it ; for by the means of that , the other is conveyed to our minds . as our sight is not according to the light in the body of the sun , but that which presseth upon our organs of sense : so that , supposing your churches testimony to be in it self infallible , if one may be deceived in judging whether your church be infallible or no , one may be deceived in such things which he believes upon that supposed infallibility . it being an impossibility , that the assent to the matters of faith , should rise higher , or stand firmer , than the assent to the testimony is , upon which those things are believed . now , that one may be deceived according to your own principles , in judging whether the church be infallible , appears by this , that you have no other means to prove the infallibility of your church , but only probable and prudential motives . for , i desire to know , whether an infallible assent to the infallibility of your church , can be grounded on those motives of credibility ? if you affirm it , then there can be no imaginable necessity , to make the testimony of your church infallible , in order to divine faith ; for you will not , i hope , deny , but that there are at least equal motives of credibility , to prove the divine authority of the scriptures , as the infallibility of your church ; and if so , why may not an infallible assent be given to the scriptures upon those motives of credibility , as well as to your churches infallibility ? if you deny the assent built upon the motives of credibility to be infallible ; how can you make the assent to your churches testimony to be infallible , when that infallibility is attempted to be proved only by the motives of credibility ? and therefore it necessarily follows , that notwithstanding your bearing it so high under the pretence of infallibility , you leave mens minds much more wavering in their assent than before ; in that , as shall afterwards appear , these very motives of credibility do not at all prove the infallibility of your church , which undoubtedly prove the truth and certainty of christian religion . thus , while by this device , you seek to avoid the circle , you destroy the foundation of your discourse , that there must be an infallible assent to the truth of that proposition , that the scriptures are the word of god ( which you call divine faith ) which , how can it be infallible , when that infallibility , at the highest , by your own confession , is but evidently credible , and so , i suppose the authority of the scriptures is , without your churches infallibility . and thus you run into the same absurdities which you would seem to avoid , which is the second thing , to manifest the unreasonableness of this way ; for whatever absurdity you charge us with , for believing the doctrine of christ upon the motives of credibility , unavoidably falls upon your selves for believing the churches infallibility on the same grounds : for if we leave the foundation of faith uncertain , you do so too ; if we build a divine faith upon motives of credibility , so do you ; if we make every ones reason the judge in the choice of his religion , so must you be forced to do , if you understand the consequence of your own principles . . it is impossible for you to give a better account of faith by the infallibility of your church , than we can do without it ; for , if divine faith cannot be built upon the motives proving the doctrine of christ , what sense or reason is there , that it should be built on those motives which prove your churches infallibility ? so that , if we leave the foundation of faith uncertain , you much more ; and that i prove by a rule of much authority with you , by which you use to pervert the weak judgements of such , who in your case do not discern the sophistry of it : which is ; when you come to deal with persons , whom you hope to proselyte , you urge them with this great principle , that prudence is to be our guide in the choice of our religion , and that prudence directs us to chuse the safest way , and that it is much safer to make choice of that way , which both sides agree salvation is to be obtained in , than of that which the other side utterly denies men can be saved in . how far this rule will hold in the choice of religion , will be examined afterwads : but if we take your word , that it is a sure rule ; i know nothing will be more certainly advantagious to us , in on present case . for both sides , i hope , are agreed , that there are sufficient motives of credibility , as to the belief of the scriptures ; but we utterly deny that there are any such motives as to the infallibility of your church ; it then certainly follows , that our way is the more eligible and certain , and that we lay a surer foundation for faith , than you do upon your principles for resolving faith. . either you must deny any such thing as that you call divine faith ; or you must assert , that it may have no other foundation than the motives of credibility , which yet is that , you would seem most to avoid by introducing the infallibility of your church , that the foundation of faith may not be uncertain : whereas , supposing what you desire , you must of necessity do that you would seem most fearful of , which is making a divine faith to rest upon prudential motives . which i thus prove : it is an undoubted axiom among the great men of your side , that whatever is a foundation for a divine faith , must itself be believed with a firm , certain , and infallible assent : now , according to your principles , the infallibility of the church , is the foundation for divine faith ; and therefore that must be believed with an assent infallible . it is apparent then , an assent infallible is required , which is that which in other terms you call divine faith ; now when you make it your business to prove the churches infallibility upon your prudential motives , i suppose your design is by those proofs , to induce men to believe it ; and if men then do believe it upon those motives , do you not found an assent infallible , or a divine faith , upon the motives of credibility ? and by the same reason that you urge against us the necessity of believing the scriptures to be the word of god by divine faith , because it is the ground why we believe the things contained in the scripture , we press on your side the necessity of believing the infallibility of the church by a faith equally divine , because that is to you the only sufficient foundation of believing the scriptures , or any thing contained in them . . you make by this way of resolving faith , every man's reason the only judge in the choice of his religion : which you are pleased to charge on us as a great absurdity : yet , you who have deserved so very ill of reason , are fain to call in her best assistance in a case of the greatest moment , viz. on what ground we must believe the scriptures to be the word of god. you say , because the church is infallible , which delivers them to us ; but how should we come to know that she is infallible ? you tell us , by the motives of credibility ; very good : but must not every ones reason judge whether these motives be credible or no ? and whether they belong peculiarly to your church , so as to prove the infallibility of it , as it is distinct from all other societies of christians in the world ? you tell us indeed , that these motives make it evidently credible ; but must we believe it to be so , because you say so ? if so ; then the ground of believing is not the credibility of the motives , but of your testimony , and therefore you ought to make it evidently true , that whatever you speak is undoubtedly true , which whosoever reads your book , will hardly be perswaded to . so that of necessity every mans reason must be judge , whether your church be infallible or no ; and thus at last you give reason the vmpirage in the choice of religion . and what is there more than this that we contend for ? if there be then any danger of scepticism , a private spirit , or what other inconveniencies you object against our way of judging the truth of religion by the vse of reason , it will fall much more heavily upon your selves , in this way of believing the infallibility of the church on the motives of credibility . therefore i assure you , it were much more consonant to the principles of your party , to tell men , the infallibility of your church ought to be taken for granted , and that men are damned for not believing it , though no reason be given for it , but only because you say it ( which is as much as to say , the reason of the point is , it must needs be so ) then thus to expose it to the scorn and contempt of the world , by offering to prove it by your motives of credibility . for unawares you thereby give away the main of your cause ; for by the very offer of proving it , you make him whom you offer to prove it to , judge whether these proofs be sufficient or no ? and if he be capable to judge of his guide , certainly he may be of his way too , considering that he hath , according to us , an infallible rule to judge of his way ; whereas , according to you , he hath but prudential motives in the choice of his guide . thus , by this opinion of yours , you have gained thus much , that there is nothing so absurd , which you charge upon us , but it falls unavoidably upon your own head . by this way of resolving faith , you undermine it ; and leave a sure foundation for nothing but scepticism ; which is the last thing to shew the great unreasonableness of this way of yours , that when you are making us believe you are taking the greatest care to make our religion sure , you cancel our best evidences , and produce nothing but crackt and broken titles , which will not stand any fair tryal at the bar of reason . and that you make the foundations of religion uncertain , i offer to prove by the reason of the thing ; for , if you require that as necessary for faith , which was never believed to be so , when the doctrine of faith was revealed ; if upon the pretence of infallibility you assert such things , which destroy all the rational evidence of christian religion , and if at last you are far from giving the least satisfactory account concerning this infallibility of your church ; then certainly we may justly charge you with unsetling the foundations of religion , instead of giving us a certain resolution of faith. . you make that necessary to faith , which was not looked on as such , when the doctrine of the gospel was revealed ; and what other design can such a pretence seem to have , than to expose to contempt that religion which was not received by a true divine faith , because it wanted that , which is now thought to be the only sure foundation of faith , viz. the infallibility of the church of rome ? what then will become of the faith of all those who received divine revelations , without the infallible testimony of any church at all ? with what faith did the disciples of christ at the time of his suffering , believe the divine authority of the old testament ? was it a true divine faith or not ? if it was , whereon was it built ? not certainly on the infallible testimony of the jewish church , which at that time consented to the death of the messias , condemning him as a malefactor and deceiver : or did they believe it because of that great rational evidence they had to convince them , that those prophecies came from god ? if so , why may not we believe the divinity of all the scriptures on the same grounds , and with a divine faith too ? with what faith did those believe in the messias , who were not personally present at the miracles which our saviour wrought , but had them conveyed to them by such reports as the woman of samaria was to the samaritans ? or were all such persons excused from believing , meerly because they were not spectators ? but by the same reason all those would be excused , who never saw our saviour's miracles , or heard his doctrine , or his apostles : but if such persons then were bound to believe , i ask , on what testimony was their faith founded ? was the woman of samaria infallible , in reporting the discourse between christ and her ? were all the persons infallible , who gave an account to others of what christ did ? yet , i suppose , had it been your own case , you would have thought your self bound to have believed christ to have been the messias , if you had lived at that time , and a certain account had been given you of our saviour's doctrine and miracles by men faithful and honest , though you had no reason to have believed them infallible : i pray , sir , answer me , would you have thought your self bound to have believed , or no ? if you affirm it ( as i will suppose you so much a christian as to say so ) i pray then tell me , whether persons in those circumstances might not have a true and divine faith , where there was no infallible testimony , but only rational evidence to build it self upon ? and if those persons might have a divine faith upon such evidence as that was , may not we much more , who have evidence of the same nature indeed , but much more extensive , universal , and convincing than that was ? and how then can you still assert an infallible testimony of the conveyers of divine revelation , to be necessary to a divine faith ? nay further yet , how very few were there in comparison , in the first ages of the christian church , who received the doctrine of the gospel from the mouths of persons infallible ? and of those who did so , what certain evidence have men , that all those persons did receive the doctrine upon the account of the infallibility of the propounders , and not rather upon the rational evidence of the truth of the doctrine delivered ; and whether the belief of their infallibility was absolutely necessary to faith , when the report of the evidences of the truth of the doctrine might raise in them an obligation to believe , supposing them not infallible in that delivery of it ; but that they looked on them as honest men , who faithfully related , what they had seen and heard . and this seems the more probable , in that the apostles themselves , in their undoubtedly divine writings , do so often appeal to their own sufficiency and integrity , without pleading so much their infallibility . s. john saith , that which we have seen and heard , and handled , declare we unto you . s. peter appeals to his being an eye-witness , to make it appear he delivered no cunningly devised fables . s. luke makes this a ground , that the things were surely believed , because delivered from them who were eye-witnesses and ministers of the word . if they insisted so much upon this rational evidence , and so sparingly on their own infallibility ; certainly they thought the one afforded not a good foundation for faith , though the other , after believing it , might highly advance it . and therefore i suggest not these things , in the least , to question the infallibility of the apostles , but to let us see , that even at that time , when there was a certainly infallible testimony , yet that is not urged as the only foundation for faith , but rational evidence produced even by those persons who were thus infallible . if we descend lower in the christian church , or walk abroad to view the several plantations of the churches at that time , where do we read or meet with the least intimation of an infallible testimony of the catholick church , so call'd from its communion with that of rome ? what infallible testimony of that church had the poor brittains to believe on ? or those barbarians mentioned in irenaeus , who yet believed without a written word ? what mention do we meet with , in all the ancient apologeticks of christians , wherein they give so large an account of the grounds of christian faith , of the modern method for resolving faith ? nay , what one ancient father or council give the least countenance to this pretended infallibility , much less make it the only sure foundation of faith , as you do ? nay , how very few are there among your selves who believe it , and yet think themselves never the worse christians for it ? if then your doctrine be true , what becomes of the faith of all these persons mentioned ? upon your principles their faith , could not be a true and divine faith ; that is , let them all think they believed the doctrine of christ never so heartily , and obeyed it never so conscientiously ; yet because they did not believe it on the infallibility of your church , their faith was but a kind of guilded and splendid infidelity , and none of them christians , because not jesuits . and doth not this principle then fairly advance christianity in the world , when the belief of it comes to be setled on foundations never heard of in the best and purest times of it ; nay , such foundations , as for want of their believing them , their faith must be all in vain , and christ dyed in vain for them ? . you assert such things upon the pretence of infallibility , which destroy all the rational evidence of christian religion : and what greater disservice could you possibly do to it , than by taking away all the proper grounds of certainty of it ? and , instead of building it super hanc petram , upon the rock of infallibility , you do it only upon a quick-sand , which swallows up the edifice , and sucks in the foundations of it . you would have men to believe the infallibility of your church , that their faith might stand upon sure grounds ; and yet , if men believe this infallibility of your church , you require such things to be believed upon it , which destroy all kind of certainty in religion . and that i prove by some of those principles which are received among you upon the account of the churches infallibility . . that the judgement of sense is not to be relyed on , in matters of faith : this is the great principle upon which the doctrine of transubstantiation stands in your church ; and this is all , the most considerative men among you have to say , when all those contradictions are offered to them , which that doctrine is so big of , both to the judgement of sense and reason , viz. that though it seem so contradictory ; yet because the church , which is infallible , delivers it , they are bound not to question it . if this principle then be true , that the judgement of sense is not to be relyed on , in matters which sense is capable of judging of ; it will be impossible for any one to give any satisfactory account of the grand foundations of christian faith. for if we carefully examine the grounds of certainty in christian religion , we find the great appeal made to the judgement of sense , ( that which we have seen , and heard , and handled . ) if then the judgement of sense must not be taken in a proper object , at due distance , and in such a thing wherein all mens senses are equally judges ; i pray , tell me what assurance the apostles could have , or any from them , of any miracles which christ wrought , of any doctrine which he preached ; especially because in his miracles there was something above nature , in which case men are more apt to suspect impostures , than in things which are the continual objects of sense , as in the case of transubstantiation ? wherein , if men are not bound to rely on the judgement of sense , you must say , that our faculties are so made , that they may be imposed upon , in the proper objects of them ; and if so , farewell all certainty , not only in religion , but in all things else in the world . for what assurance can i have of the knowledge of any thing , if i find that my faculties not only may be , but i am bound to believe that they actually are , deceived in a thing that is as proper an object of sense , as any in the world . and if a thing , which the judgement of all mankind ( those excepted who have given away their sense and reason in this present case ) doth unanimously concurr in , may be false ; what evidence can we have , when any thing is true ? for , if a thing so plain and evident to our senses may be false , viz. that what i and all other men see , is bread , what ground of certainty can we have , but that which my senses , and all other mens judge to be false , may be true ? for by this means you take away the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 both of sense and reason in things , and consequently , all things are equally true and false to us ; and thence it follows , that truth and falshood are but fancies , that our faculties have no means to difference the one from the other , that in things we all agree in , as proper objects of sense , we not only may be , but are deceived ; and then farewell sense , reason and religion together . for , i pray , tell me what assurance could the apostles have of the resurrection of christ's individual body from the grave , but the judgement of sense ? what waies did he use to convince them , that he was not a spectre or apparition , but by an appeal to their senses ? by what means did he reclaim thomas from his infidelity , but by bidding him make use of his senses ? if thomas had believed transubstantiation , he would easily have answered our saviours argument , and told him , if there were not a productive , yet there might be an adductive transmutation of some other person into him : and the disciples might all have said , it was true , there were the accidents of christ's body , the external shape and figure of it ; but , for all they could discern , there might be some invisible spirit under those external accidents of shape : and therefore they must desire to be excused from believing it to be his body ; for , hoc est corpus meum , had told them already , that the external accidents might remain , where the substance was changed . now therefore , when the assurance of christian religion came from the judgement of the senses of those who were eye-witnesses of the miracles and the resurrection of christ ; if the senses of men may be so grosly deceived in the proper objects of them in the case of transubstantiation , what assurance could they themselves have , who were eye-witnesses of them ? and how much less assurance can we have , who have all our evidence from the certainty of their report ? so that it appears upon the whole , that , take away the certainty of the judgement of sense , you destroy all certainty in religion ; for , tradition only conveys to us now , what was originally grounded upon the judgement of sense , and delivers to us in an undoubted manner , that which the apostles saw and heard . and do not you then give a very good account of religion by the infallibility of your church ; when , if i believe your church to be infallible , i must by vertue of that infallibility , believe something to be true , which if it be true , there can be no certainty at all of the truth of christian religion . . another principle is , that we can have no certainty of any of the grounds of faith , but from the infallibility of your present church . whereby you do these two things . . destroy the obligation to faith which ariseth from the rational evidence of christian religion . . put the whole stress of the truth of christianity upon the proofs of your churches infallibility ; by which things any one may easily see what tendency your doctrine of resolving faith hath , and how much it designs the overthrow of christianity . . you destroy the obligation to faith from the rational evidence of christian religion , by telling men , as you do expresly in the very title of your next chapter , that there can be no unquestionable assurance of apostolical tradition , but for the infallible authority of the present church . if so , then men cannot have any unquestionable assurance that there was such a person as christ in the world , that he wrought such great miracles for confirmation of his doctrine , that he dyed and rose again ; it seems we can have no assurance of these things if the present church be not infallible . and if we can have no assurance of them , what obligation can lye upon us to believe them ? for , assurance of the matters of fact which are the foundations of faith , is necessary in order to the obligation to believe ; i mean such an assurance as matters of fact are capable of ; for no higher can be required then the nature of things will bear . and what a strange assertion then is this , that matters of fact cannot be conveyed to us in an unquestionable manner , unless the present church stamp her infallibility upon them ? cannot we have an unquestionable assurance that there were such persons as caesar and pompey , and that they did such and such things , without some infallible testimony ? if we may in such things , why not in other matters of fact which infinitely more concern the world to know then whatever caesar or pompey did ? but this will be more at large examined afterwards ; i only now take notice of the consequence of this principle , and how fairly it destroyes all rational evidence of the truth of our religion ; which whosoever takes away will be by force of reason , a sceptick in the first place , and an infidel in the second . neither is the danger meerly in destroying the rational evidence of religion ; but , . in putting the whole weight of religion upon the proofs of the present churches infallibility , which whosoever considers how silly and weak they are , cannot sufficiently wonder at the design of those men , who put the most excellent religion in the world , and which is built upon the highest and truest reason to such a strange kind of ordeal tryal , that if she pass not through this st. winifreds needle , her innocency must be suspected , and her truth condemned . so that whosoever questions the truth of this kind of purgation , will have a greater suspition of a juggle and imposture if she be acquitted , then if she had never submitted to such a tryal . and when we come to examine the proofs brought for this infallibility , it will then further appear , what uncertainty in religion men are betrayed to , under this confident pretext of infallibility . thus we see what scepticism in religion the principles owned upon the account of infallibility , do bring men to . . when you have brought men to this , that the only sure ground of faith is the infallibility of your church , you are not able to give them any satisfactory account at all concerning it ; but plunge them into greater uncertainties then ever they were in before . for you can neither satisfie them what that church is which you suppose infallible , what in that church is the proper subject of this infallibility , what kind of infallibility this is , nor how we should know when the church doth decide infallibly and when not ; and yet every one of these questions is no less then absolutely necessary to be resolved , in order to the satisfaction of mens minds , as to the foundation of their faith. . you cannot satisfie men what that church is which you suppose to be infallible . certainly , if you had a design to give men a certain foundation for their faith , you would not be so shy of discovering what it is you understand by that church which you would have infallible ; if you had meant honestly , the first thing you should have done was to have prevented all mistakes concerning the meaning of the church , when you know what various significations it hath , not only in scripture , but among your selves . whether you mean the church essential , representative , or vertual , for every one of these upon occasion you make use of : and it was never more necessary to have explained them then in this place , and yet you with wonderful care and industry avoid any intimation of what you mean by that church which you would prove infallible . when you plead so earnestly for the churches infallibility , i pray tell us what you mean by the church ; do you intend the truly catholick and vniversal church which comprehends in it all such as own and profess the doctrine of christ , in which sense it was well said by abulensis , ecclesia universalis nunquam errat , quia nunquam tota errat , the universal church never erres , because the whole church is never deceived . or , do you mean by your catholick church some particular part of it , to which you apply the name of catholick not for vniversality of extent , but soundness of doctrine ? then it will be necessary yet further , to shew what part of the church that is , by what right and title that hath engrossed the name of catholick , so as to exclude other societies of christians from it ; and whether you must not first prove the absolute integrity and soundness of her doctrine , before you can attribute this title to it . for otherwise you will find that marvellously true , which the same tostatus saith , ecclesia latinorum non est ecclesia vniversalis sed quaedam pars ejus : ideò etiamsi tota ipsa errâsset , non errabat ecclesia vniversalis , quia manet ecclesia vniversalis in partibus illis quae non errant , sive illae sint numero plures quàm errantes , sive non . so that if you prove the infallibility of the catholick church , this proves nothing at all as to the roman church , which at most can be supposed to be but a part of it , and though that should err , the catholick church might not err , because that remains in those parts which err not , though they be more or less in number then those that err . this is the sense of his words ; who seemed to have a much truer conception of the vniversal church , than those now of your sect and party . if then we may believe the church to be infallible , and yet , in the mean time , condemn your church for the grossest errours : will it not be found necessary for you , to tell us yet more distinctly , what you mean by the church you would prove infallible ? but , supposing that only those parts you esteem catholick , make up the catholick church , even among them the question will still return , what you mean by this catholick church ; do you mean all the individual persons in this number , taken either distributively or collectively ? or , do you mean , all those who are entrusted with the government of these ? and then , whether all inferiour pastors , or only bishops ? and if bishops , whether all these collectively , or else by way of representation in a council ? and still remember to make it good , that what you pitch upon as the acception of the church , be not an effect of humane policy , as albertus pighius said , all councils were no more ; but that what you fasten the acception of the church-catholick upon , you be sure to make it out , that is the catholick church to whom the promises are made in scripture : and , be sure to tell us , how a church comes to be infallible by representation ? whether as they , who make the church representative , deliver the sense of the church they represent ; or by an immediate promise made to them upon their convention . if the former , whether it will not be necessary , in order to the infallibility of the council , to know , that it speaks the sense of all those particular churches whom they represent : if the latter , you must remember such places as belong to them , as representing the church ; for otherwise any company of christians assembled together , will challenge an equal interest in them ; and then you will find it a hard matter to prove one infallible , and not the other . but , if after all this , your windmill should dwindle into a nutcracker , and this harangue concerning the infallibility of the catholick church , should at last end in one particular person ; which by a strange catachresis , must be call'd the church , or else , as heir at law to her , doth take possession of all her priviledges . then the testament must be produced wherein he is named so , and those clauses especially , wherein the rights and priviledges of her are devolved over to him and his heirs for ever . there being then so much ambiguity and uncertainty in the very name of the church-catholick , which you would prove infallible , that if nothing else discovered your imposture , yet this would sufficiently , that you would undertake to resolve mens faith by the infallibility of the church , and yet never offer to shew what that church is . . supposing you had shewn what the church is , yet you never tell us what the subject of infallibility is in that church . for , when in this case you speak of infallibility , you must remember you are not to shew what that church is , which is not deceived in judging concerning things necessary to salvation , but what that church is , which is infallible in her direction of others to salvation : for , you speak of such an infallibility as must be a guide to others , and whose infallible judgement must be known to all such who must resolve their faith into her testimony : you would have done then no more than was absolutely necessary to have precisely shewn us where this infallibility is lodged in your church ; whether in pope or council , or both together . i suppose it can be no news either to you , or to the reader , what controversies there are among the greatest of your side , whether the pope or council be the greater , and to whom this infallibility belongs ; neither are either side fully agreed in their own way , for some that are for the infallibility of a general council , will make that infallible without the pope , others account that opinion , if not haeretical , the next step to it . those who are for the pope's infallibility , are not agreed neither when he shall be said to be infallible : they who speak oracles tell us , when he doth define ex cathedrâ , but what that is , neither they nor we can well tell ; some say it is , when he hath a congregation of chosen cardinals about him , others make the whole colledge of cardinals necessary , and therefore some in the late definition concerning the jansenists were refractory , because it was defined only by a congregation of chosen cardinals , which they said , was not defining ex cathedrâ : some again make neither of these necessary , but suppose the infallibility lodged in the pope himself . and are we not at a fine pass for the certainty of our faith , if it must rely upon the infallible testimony of your church ; and yet you your selves not at all agreed to whom this infallible testimony doth belong ? think not that we will be put off with that silly evasion , that these differences among you hinder not the certainty of faith , because it is not de fide either way . for . how shall we come to know among you what is de fide , and what not , till you are agreed to whom this infallibility belongs ? and if it belongs to a general council , then it is de fide ; for it was determined at the council of basil , in behalf of the council , and therefore if one of the opinions be true , it must be de fide ; for , i suppose you make that to be so , which is determined by the infallible testimony of your church . . how shall a man believe , that any thing at all is de fide among you , if that on which your faith is to rest , be not de fide ? for , supposing a difference to happen , which hath often done between the pope and council , and they decree contrary things to each other , if it be not de fide , to believe either the one or the other distinctly to be infallible , upon what testimony at such a time must that which supposeth the infallible testimony of your church rely ? . if it be said not to be de fide , because not determined ; by the same reason your churches infallibility cannot be de fide , because not determined neither : for , if the determination of the church be necessary to make any thing de fide , it must by the same reason be necessary to make your churches infallibility de fide ; and , i suppose , you will not readily instance in any decree of the catholick church , where the testimony of your church is determined to be infallible . and yet one would imagine , that if there were such a necessity in order to faith , of the infallible testimony of your church , there would be an equal necessity of believing this infallibility on the same testimony : or if one may believe one article especially so important a one as that , without any precedent infallible testimony , why not any other , nay , why not all the rest ? thus you still see , how uncertainties grow upon us , when we search into your account of faith. . you are not certain neither , what kind of infallibility this is ; for you offer to prove the church infallible , by the same way that moses , christ , and his apostles were proved infallible : a very fair offer , if you could make it good ; but then we were in hopes you would have proved such a kind of infallibility as they had ; you tell us , no : for your infallibility is supernatural , but not divine ; that it is precise infallibility , but not absolute ; that it is not by immediate revelation , but by immediate assistance of the holy ghost : something you would have , but you cannot tell what ; an infallibility in the conclusion , without any in the vse of means ; an infallibility by immediate assistance of the holy ghost , yet but in a sort divine ; an infallibility yielding nothing to scripture in point of supernaturality and certainty , yet nothing so infallible as scripture . are not these brave things to make wise men certain in their religion with ! that they are to believe the scriptures upon a testimony infallible , yet not infallible ; divine , yet not divine ; and therefore certain , but not certain ; true , but not true . but of the silliness of these distinctions , afterwards . but , can you think to perswade wise or rational men to believe their religion on such terms as these are ? had they no other evidence than what you give them , would they not be shrewdly tempted to reject all religion , as a meer imposture , as no doubt your doctrine of infallibility is ? a strange kind of talisman , which secures your pope from a possibility of erring , but still he must be under the certain direction of his stars ; for , if he be not in cathedrâ , this telesm doth him no good at all . it were heartily to be wished , if he should once happen to be in cathedrâ , he would infallibly determine what it was to be in cathedrâ for ever after ; for it would ease mens minds of a great many troublesome scruples , which they cannot , without some infallible determination , get themselves quit of . but still we are bound to believe your church infallible : but , i pray , whence comes this infallibility ? comes it from heaven , or is it of men ? from heaven , no doubt , you say ; for it is by a promise of the holy ghost . this were something , if it were proved ; but yet you maintain this infallibility in such a manner , that none that read the scriptures could ever think , it were promised there . for there they alwaies read , that the spirit of truth is a spirit of holiness , and never dwells in those who are carnal or wicked men ; but , you tell us , that let the lives of popes be what they will , they have no promise to secure them from being wicked , but the spirit of god doth by immediate assistance secure them from being fallible . but , i pray , which of these two is not only more contrary to scripture , but to humane nature ; wickedness or fallibility ? this latter , so consequent upon the imperfection of our understandings , that , till we put off the one , we can hardly be freed from the other ; but wickedness is that which the whole design of christian religion is against , and administers the highest motives , and the greatest assistance for the conquest of ; and can it then be thought suitable to such a doctrine , that the divine spirit should , like mahomet's dove , be alwaies ready to whisper in the ear of the most profligate person , if it be but his fortune to sit in cathedrá ? such a kind of infallibility as this , i assure you , will never prevail with any such persons , who understand christian religion , to believe the doctrine of it upon such pretences as yours are . . supposing , you could tell men intelligibly and suitably to the doctrine of christianity , what kind of infallibility this is ; yet if you cannot satisfie them , when your church doth define infallibly , you leave them still in the same labyrinth , without any clue to direct them out of it . but , if we consider what things are necessary to be believed , before we can believe any definition of your church infallible , how impossible it is to be infallibly assured of any such definition of your church , sure you cannot blame us for crying out of the labyrinth you have brought us into . . how many things in christian religion are to be believed , before we can imagine any such thing as an infallible testimony of your church ? and if the infallibility of that be the ground of faith , on what account must those things be believed , which are antecedent to the belief of such an infallible testimony ? now , that many things , and some of them far from being clear , are to be believed antecedently to an infallible testimony , will appear ; if we do but consider what they commonly mean by that church , which they suppose infallible , and what must be supposed , that this infallibility be the rule of faith. by the church , they tell you , they mean the catholick church : but lest you should think them too honest in saying so , at next word it is , the roman-catholick church ( just as if one should say , the german-vniversal emperour . ) but lest you should think at least they meant the roman church of all ages , and think you might have some relief from the primitive roman church , they will soon rectifie your mistakes , by telling you , it is the present roman-church they mean ; but if it be the present roman-church , it may be you would be willing to hear the judgement of all the honest men in that church , and that you hope many of the people and learned men ( not in orders ) may speak their minds freely . to prevent that , they tell you they mean only the representative church . but still the bishops , who make up this representative church , may in their several synods complain of abuses , and rectifie miscarriages ; therefore they understand not bishops by themselves , or particular synods , but met together in general councils . but yet , if the councils were truly oecumenical , there might be some hopes of redress . but for that they are sure ; for they allow none to be members of the general councils , which are in schism or heresie ; and their own church is to be judge , what schism and heresie is ; and they are hugely to blame then , if they admit any but those of their own party . but yet , some councils have stood upon their priviledges in opposition to the pope , as those of constance and basil. therefore , to make all sure , no council is lawful in it self , or its decrees bind the church , but such as is call'd and confirmed by the pope : who is strangely to blame then , if he suffers any thing to pass to his own prejudice : so that this infallibility of the pope , is the last resort in the resolution of faith ; for all the rest , we see , are uncertain . and what a vast measure of faith ( greater than that which our saviour said , would remove mountains ) is necessary to believe this infallibility of the pope ? for in the first place , unless he believes the particular roman-church to be the catholick church , he spoils all the conjuring afterwards , with not having faith enough about him . again , he must believe , that christ hath promised an infallible assistance to the pastors of the church as distinct from the people ; but this avails little still , unless he believes these credentials must not be opened , but in full council ; and that council such a one as the pope calls , and in which himself presides , either in person , or by his legates , and that the decrees of the council oblige not the church , without the pope's confirmation ; and to that end you must believe , that s. peter was made monarch of the church by christ ; that this monarchy was to be derived to all his successors in all places ; but as to this ( where-ever he was besides ) he never had any successor any where but at rome : and these successors of his at rome , cannot for their lives err , if they do but sit in cathedrâ . certainly he that hath faith to swallow all these things , is hugely to blame if he stick at any thing ; and by that time a man's understanding is debauched sufficiently by these principles , i make no question but such a one will believe infallibility , transubstantiation , or any thing in the world . but beside these things , in order to the making the churches testimony the rule of faith to any one , there must another dose of principles be taken , which have opium enough in them to lay asleep all the remainders of reason : for he must infallibly believe the church to be infallible , though no infallible argument be brought for the proof of it ; that this church doth judicially and authoritatively pronounce her sentence in matters of faith , though we know not what that church is , which must so pronounce ; that he infallibly know that this particular sentence was so pronounced , though he can have no other than moral means of knowing it ; and lastly , that the infallibility must be the first thing believed , although all these things must of necessity be believed before it . and if after this second purgation , he be not a true son of the church of rome , he deserves to be anathematized as an obstinate person , for having any thing of reason in him . therefore i wonder not that the doctrine of infallibility seems no strange thing to you ; for a man must devour such giant-like absurdities , before he comes to it , that when he comes at it , he finds it nothing . but still , one would think it a little strange , that this infallibility should be the only foundation of believing all things in religion ; and yet so many things , and some of them very strange ones , must of necessity be certainly believed before it . . supposing a man not only believes all these things before it , but doth really believe your church infallible , yet he is uncertain still how he should know when your church defines infallibly . for so many things are required in reference to the person defining , so many for the definition it self , that it will be no easie matter to remove those difficulties which lye in the way of his assent to such a definition . as to the person , if he be not a christian , if he be not a priest , if not a lawful pope , all his definitions are far from being infallible ; yet none of all these can any one be assured of according to your principles of the intention of the priest being necessary in the administration of sacraments , in order to the effect of them . ( but the large train of consequences following from hence , i forbear to urge you with , because they have been so often urged by abler pens . ) but , what will you say , when we are so far from assurance , as to the pope's being legally chosen , that we have , if not great evidence , yet very high presumptions of the contrary , what becomes then of your pope's infallibility ? nay , from the illegality of one , follows the illegality of all his successors , because they were chosen by cardinals , made by him ; who could be no lawful cardinals , because he was no legal pope , and consequently not they who were made by them . the case is this ; there is a bull of pope julius the second , against the simoniacal election of any pope , which the cardinals , upon their first entrance into the conclave , swear solemnly to observe . in which bull it is expresly said , that if any pope be simoniacally chosen by any of the cardinals , upon any gift or promise whatsoever , that such an election is ipso facto null ; and the cardinals may oppose one so chosen , as if guilty of manifest heresie ; and that none ought to receive or look on such a one as pope ; neither can this simoniacal election be made good by inthronisation , course of time , submission of cardinals , &c. and that they ought all to avoid him as a magician , heathen , publican , or the founder of heresie . this is the substance of that bull. now it is notoriously known , that sixtus the fifth , was simoniacally chosen pope . for , that he might be chosen , he did under his hand promise to cardinal d'este , who had a great interest in the conclave , that in the time of his popedome , he would never create jerome matthew , the cardinals great enemy , a cardinal : upon which promise he was through his interest chosen pope . but , when afterwards the pope violated his faith to him , by creating his enemy cardinal ; d'este , being highly incensed against him for it , sent the very instrument subscribed by the pope's own hand , to philip the second king of spain , who in the year . sent the duke of suisse extraordinary embassador to rome , to intimate to sixtus the fifth , his intention of calling a general council , according to the bull of julius the second , for declaring this simoniacal election . when this message was delivered to the pope , and he saw the instrument was discovered under his own hand , he fell into such a perplexity , that he dyed soon after , which stopt the progress of the business . by this it evidently appears , that sixtus himself was no lawful pope , and therefore could create no cardinals : and , because the cardinals created by him , had a voice in the election of the subsequent popes ; it follows , that there hath been no legal pope since sixtus the fifth . for , after the death of sixtus , cardinal montallo his nephew , with forty votes entred the conclave , and chose vrban the seventh , who lived but few daies ; after him gregory the fourteenth , who was pope but ten months ; after him innocentius the ninth , who continued but two months ; after him clement the eighth , who out-lived the election thirteen years . but not to enquire any further into the irregular election , and the simoniacal bargains of paul the fifth , after the death of clement ; this certainly may suffice to let men see , what becomes of their faith , when they pin it upon the pope's sleeve : for , if we are to rely upon his infallible testimony , and he so far from being infallible , that by their own constitutions he was no pope , nor to be looked on as other than a magician , heathen , and heretick , is not our faith then setled on a sure foundation ? for what assurance can any one have , that amidst all the enormities , and secret practices of the conclave , any one is freely and legally chosen ? but , where will his faith stand , when it is notorious , that a cardinal must say , dabo tibi claves , and that not without a contract too . but , suppose all the assurance that may be of the person who is to deliver this infallible testimony ; yet at the utmost , the most men in the world can have no more than a moral certainty of the definition it self . if we can imagine , that any one should know that great mystery , when the pope should define ex cathedrâ ; yet , can he have any greater evidence of such a definition , than we have concerning the things revealed in scripture ? i cannot think that you will suppose any greater evidence of it , than if one sees and hears it ; and , what do we desire less in reference to the doctrine of christ ? but how few in the world are there , who stand by , when the pope defines ? may others be certain of such a definition or no , so as to be obliged to believe it ? if not , what good can this infallibility do them ? if they may , why do you quarrel with our way as uncertain ? when if you grant your infallibility , you cannot prescribe any more certain way , but one much more liable to question and dispute than ours is . thus you see what little advantage you get by all these bravado's about infallibility ; and that you are so far from giving a satisfactory account of faith , that you expose christian religion to more doubts , scruples , and uncertainties , than ever before . which may abundantly shew to all unprejudiced minds , the great unreasonableness of your way of resolving faith , which was the thing to be proved . . but , suppose your way to be never so reasonable , yet if it effect not that it was brought for , it deserves little favour from inquisitive persons , and that i now come to evince , viz. that supposing your church infallible , and that infallibility proved by the motives of credibility , you do not escape the circle objected against your way . and really , whosoever considers your way of management of things , will find , that though you give out great words , and pretend to prove the churches infallibility , as moses and christ's was proved ; yet your eye was all the while on nothing but the circle , and thought , if you could get rid of that , you should do well enough with any thing else . for , as though this circle had ridden you like an ephialtes , you tumble , and groan , and toss this way and that , and when you think your self freed from it , it sits as close upon you as ever . when you come so miserably off with the proofs of your churches infallibility , you satisfie your self with this ; 't is sufficient for the present to have declared how the catholicks fall not into a circle , as his lordship here pretends they do . though this could not be sufficient for your design , who had promised in the page foregoing , to prove at large the infallibility of the church ; yet you had done somewhat , if you had done this , which , if i much mistake not , you are as much to seek in , as in the proofs of your churches infallibility . and that i prove by three things , from the nature of that faith whose resolution you promise , from the persons you prove it to , from the nature of that infallibility which you attempt to prove . . from the nature of that faith , you are enquiring a resolution for , which is not that which you call a humane faith , but a divine faith. when you go about to prove the churches infallibility , by the motives of credibility , is it a divine faith or no , which may be built on these motives ? chuse which part you please . if it be , then by your own confession , a divine faith may be built on prudential motives ; if it be not , then what is all this to the purpose ? for the question is not , whether by any other kind of assent you cannot avoid the circle ; but , whether in the resolution of divine faith you can or no ? for , i hope , you deny not , but the scriptures and the churches infallibility are both to be believed with the same kind of assent , built upon an infallible testimony ; in this case i then ask , why , with a divine faith , you believe the scriptures to be the word of god ? you answer , because the church , which is infallible , delivers them so to us . if i then ask , why with a divine faith you believe the churches infallibility ? answer me if you can , any other way , than because the scriptures , which are infallible , say so . and thus you see , it is only your running away from the question , makes you think your self out of the circle , and not any satisfactory answer to it . will you , or dare you say , that is an assent of the same nature , which is built on the motives of credibility , with that which is grounded on an infallible testimony ? if it be not , bethink your self of a new answer : if it be , bethink your self of a new way to oppose us , and not to think it sufficient to charge us with building divine faith , on prudential motives , when you do it your self . but , if you should assert that to be a divine faith , which is built on the motives of credibility , you not only contradict your self , but the great ones of your own party . for your becanus saith , that these motives are the foundation only of a prudent assent , but not infallible ; and valentius goes much higher , and tells us , the faith grounded on these motives is not divine , or infused , but acquisite , that it is in its nature uncertain and fallible , that it cannot be the foundation of christian faith. if this be true , to what end do you go about to resolve faith upon such uncertainties , in hopes to escape the circle you see others in . thus you see , how insufficient your attempt is , because you speak not of the same kind of assent as to the scripture , and the church . . you avoid not the circle by the different considerations of the persons you offer to prove the infallibility of the church and scripture to . you tell us , that when you prove the infallibility of the church by scripture , you make use only of arguments ad hominem , and argue ex principiis concessis against sectaries , who deny the infallibility of your church , but admit the divine authority of the scriptures , and therefore you may justly use scripture-arguments against them . i grant it : but still i say , you avoid not the circle by this subterfuge neither . for , . the question is not , which way you will prove the infallibility of the church against those who deny it ; but which way you resolve your own faith of the churches infallibility ? therefore this signifies nothing at all as to your question about the resolution of faith ; for i suppose you build not that on any thing which your adversary grants or denyes . is there no difference between the way of proving a thing to an adversary , and the resolving ones own faith ? i question not , but you may dispute with him upon principles he grants and you deny ; but , i should think you no wise man to build your faith upon such principles . so that this evasion comes not near the business . . even in disputing against your adversaries you cannot avoid the circle , which i thus prove . you offer to prove to them the church to be infallible out of scripture ; for this you bring them particular places , and think presently to vanquish them with , super hanc petram , pasce oves , & dabo tibi claves ; but hence ariseth another question , how you come infallibly to know , that this is the sense of those places ? you know , your adversaries presently deny any such thing as infallibility to be proved out of them . and , what way have you to assure them , this is the sense of them , but because your church , which is infallible , delivers this to be the sense of them . and is not this then a plain circle ? you are to believe the church infallible , because the scripture saith so ; and you are to believe the scripture saith so , because the church is infallible . if this be not still a plain circle , you may question whether there be any such figure in mathematicks . . i prove you cannot avoid the circle from your own confession of the nature of that infallibility , which you say is in the church . for you tell us , that the churches testimony doth not suppose any new revelation from god , but only a supernatural assistance of the holy ghost , preserving her from all errour in defining the points of christian faith. by this assertion , you destroy all possibility of avoiding the circle by the motives of credibility ; for if these had proved an immediate divine revelation in the church , i confess you had proved the churches infallibility independently on scripture ; but , when you offer to prove only a divine assistance with the church , in delivering former revelations , you cannot : and the reason is , because you can bring no ground at all why such an assistance should be necessary in the church ; or why it should be expected but from the promises made in scripture concerning such an assistance of god's spirit to be with the church : and therefore the utmost your motives of credibility can pretend to , is only to notifie that church from others , which you suppose infallible : but still the formal reason of your beleeving this infallibility , cannot be from those motives , but upon those promises which you suppose to import such an assistance of the holy ghost with the church , which shall secure her from errour : so that still the circle returns upon you : for , you believe the scriptures infallible , because of the churches testimony ; and you believe the church infallible , because of the promises in scripture concerning the assistance of the holy ghost with the church , so as to secure her from all errour . and thus , i hope , i have made good this general attempt upon your way of resolving faith , by manifesting the great unreasonableness , and manifest insufficiency of it . i now come to handle the particulars of this chapter , which consists of two things , proofs and evasions , the proofs you produce for your churches infallibility , and your evasions as to those arguments which are objected by his lordship . both of these will deserve our consideration ; and if it appear , that your proofs are weak , and your evasions silly , you will have no great cause to triumph in this attempt of yours . as to your proofs , two things are considerable , your method of proving , and the proofs themselves . i begin with the first , which you deliver in these words . wherefore , as to the last demand ( in which only there is difficulty viz. how we know the church to be infallibly governed by the holy ghost ; we answer , that we prove it first in general , not by the scripture , but by the motives of credibility , which belong to the church , in the same manner as the infallibity of moses , and other prophets , of christ and his apostles was proved , which was by the miracles they wrought , and by other signs of an infallible spirit , direction , and guidance from god , which appeared in them . whence it is clear , that we incurr no circle . that , supposing all that true which you said before , yet thereby you avoid not the circle , i shall take it for granted , i have already proved , till you better inform me : our business now therefore is , to consider , which way you prove this infallibility of your church , which you tell us , is not by scripture ( for which i commend your ingenuity ) but by the motives of credibility . but , lest any should think this a weak way of probation , you tell us , it is in the same manner that the infallibility of all persons divinely inspired was proved , not excepting christ himself . a most heroical and generous attempt ! for which the church of rome is infinitely obliged to you , if you make it good : for then it necessarily follows , that there is as great danger in not believing the infallibility of your church , as in not believing moses and the prophets , christ and his apostles . for , where there is an equal obligation to believe , there is an equal sin in not believing ; and where the sin is equal , it stands to reason that the punishment should be so too . i suppose you deny not , but , where there are equal motives inducing to believe , there results an equal obligation to faith , because the grounds obliging to assent , can be no other than the motives inducing to it ; and if these motives be as strong and evident for your churches infallibility ▪ as for that of moses and christ , men must be as much obliged now to believe your church infallible , as , that moses and christ were so . so that the denial of your churches infallibility , must needs be accounted by you to be as high a piece of infidelity , as if one should call in question the infallibility of christ himself . for you assert , that you have the same proofs for the infallibility of your church , which there were to prove him infallible . i do not therefore wonder at your sharpness and severity in your censures of all out of your church , when upon your principles the denying your churches infallibility , must needs be an offence of as high a nature , as if one denied the infallibility of the sacred scriptures . but , lest you should not think these any absurdities at all , we must come yet closer to the examination of your proofs : for which we must enquire into these two things . . whether the same motives of credibility belong to your church , by which moses and the prophets , christ and his apostles , shewed their testimony to be infallible . . whether , on supposition you had the same motives , there were the same reason to believe the testimony of your church infallible , as there was to believe them to be so . . whether the same motives of credibility belong to your church or no. and here again , these things offer themselves to consideration . . by what means their testimony was proved infallible . . whether your churches testimony can be proved by the same motives or no. for the first , you are pleased to give us this account , why moses was accounted infallible ; for the israelites seeing moses to be a person very devout , mild , charitable , and chaste , and endowed with the gift of working miracles , were upon that ground obliged to receive him for a true prophet ; and to believe him infallible , by acknowledging as true and certain , whatever he proposed to them from god. all which i acknowledge to be very true ; but am much to seek , how you will apply it to the proving your churches infallibility . what kind of miracles those are which your church pretends to , will be examined afterwards ; the other motives of credibility mentioned , are devotion , mildness , charity , and chastity ; and these , i suppose , you look on as those motives , which must induce men to believe the infallibility of your church . but , do you really think , that every person who is devout , mild , charitable , and chast , is therefore infallible ? if not , to what purpose do you produce them here ? if you do , some out of your church may be as infallible as those in it . especially , if your superstitious ceremonies be the greatest part of your devotion ; and your burning of hereticks , the argument of your mildness ; and your damning all out of your church , be the best evidence of your charity ; and the lives of your popes , the most pregnant instances of your churches chastity . the rest of your discourse , wherein you endeavour after your way , to prove tha there were sufficient motives of credibility , to believe the testimony of christ and his apostles , i suppose no christian will deny ; and that the miracles wrought by them , were proofs that their testimony was infallible , i am so far from questioning , that all your other motives signifie nothing without them . which , because it hath so great an influence on the present dispute , i think it necessary to be a little further cleared , than it is by you , and chiefly for this end , to let you see , how much you have befooled your self in attempting to prove the infallibility of your church , in the same manner that christ and his apostles infallibility was proved in , and yet insisting on that of miracles , as the great evidence of their infallibility , which your church cannot with any face pretend to . i acknowledge it then as a great truth , that it was necessary , that the testimony of all such who pretend to be infallible , must be confirmed by such miracles , as christ and his apostles wrought ; nay , that it is impossible , without such evidence , to prove any testimony infallible , where that infallibility is pretended to , independently upon scripture , as it is in your present case . which will be thus made evident : absolute infallibility is not consistent with the shortness of the humane vnderstanding , for such an infallibility must suppose an infinity of knowledge ; for , where there is a defect in the apprehension , there is a possibility of deception ; therefore only an infinite being can be absolutely infallible . now , man's vnderstanding being so finite , and limited in its conceptions , it is on that account apt to be imposed upon , and to form false notions of things ; so that supposing no being in the world of greater perfections than man is , there never could be any such thing as infallibility among men . for , though some mens vnderstandings might outstrip others in the quickness of conception , and solidity of judgement ; yet the nature of man being thus finite , that presumption would lye against all pretence of infallibility . it being then impossible , that mans understanding should be in it self infallible , we must consider , whether there be a possibility it should receive any infallibility from that infinite being , which is above it . this then must be taken for granted , that as an infinite vnderstanding cannot be deceived , so infinite goodness cannot deceive . and therefore , whatever doth immediately proceed from a being infinitely wise and good , cannot but be infallibly true. and there is no repugnancy at all , in the nature of the thing , but that this infinite being may , in a way certain , but imperceptible by us , communicate to the minds of men such notions of things , which are the effects of his own wisdom and counsel : and this is that we call divine inspiration . but then we are still to consider , that the understanding of a finite creature , cannot be any further infallible , than as it receives those notions which are imprinted upon it by the infinite and supreme intellect of the world ; and such a person is no further infallible in what he speaks , than as he delivers to the world those very conceptions , which are thus formed in his mind . and this is that which the apostle means when he sayes , that holy men of god spake as they were moved by the holy ghost . and so far as they were thus moved , so far they were infallible , and no further . but this infallibility being not intended meerly for the satisfaction of the mind of him that hath it , but for the general good of the world , it is necessary that there be some way whereby men may come to understand who are infallibly assisted , and who not . for otherwise the world would be more exposed to delusions under this pretext of infallibility ; than if there were never any such thing in the world . either therefore every man must be infallibly assured in his mind , that such a person is infallible in what he is to deliver , which is a needless piece of enthusiasm ; or else such external evidences of it are to be used , which may induce all rational and considerative persons to the belief of it . which is the way that god in his infinite wisdom hath made choice of ; by making those very persons , whose understandings are thus assisted by him to be the instruments of doing some things above the power of nature . and nothing can be more reasonable , than to believe their testimony true , who are imployed as such immediate instruments of divine power ; and if their testimony be believed true , their doctrine must be infallible ; for the greatest part of their testimony is this , that they deliver not their doctrines from themselves , but immediately from god. and consequently their testimony must be owned as infallible , in whatever they deliver as from god ; it being very unreasonable to think , that god would favour such persons with so extraordinary a power , who should falsifie their message , and deceive the world . thus you see , that whatever motives of credibility you would blind the world with , there can be no motive independent on scripture , which is sufficient to prove infallibility , but such a power of working miracles , which moses , and the prophets , and christ , and his apostles had , which last , as you truly say , received their commission from christ to preach every where , and to confirm their words with signs that followed ; by which signs , all their hearers were bound to submit themselves unto them , and to acknowledge their words for infallible oracles of truth . now , what reasonable man could otherwise expect , but that after you had so solemnly promised to prove the infallibility of your church , in the very same manner that moses , with other prophets , christ and his apostles were first proved to be infallible , which are twice your words ; and your at large shewing , that the main ground why they were believed infallible , was , because of the miracles wrought by them , whence they needed not the testimony of scripture : you should have shewed us what kind of parallel miracles are wrought in your church , to prove its infallibility . but , instead of that , when you come to the purpose , you shuffle us off , in a most ridiculous and impertinent manner : for , you tell us , that as therefore moses , our blessed saviour , and his apostles , were proved infallible by their works , signs , and miracles , without scripture ; so is the church without help of the same sufficiently proved to be infallible by the motives of credibility . well , but what , and where are these motives of credibility ? are they of the same kind and nature with the signs and miracles wrought by them or not ? if not , how can the way and manner be the same , which you promised to prove the churches infallibility ? if not , what assurance can you give us , that those will prove infallibility , as well as their works and miracles ? this should have been demonstrated , and those motives produced to the view of the world , if you had designed any other than jugling with your readers . instead of this , you tell us , that hereticks , though they have the scripture , yet being out of the true church , they do wholly want these signs of infallibility : of which , see bellarmine , and other catholick authors discoursing more at large , de notis ecclesiae . 't is sufficient for the present , to have declared how catholicks fall not into a circle , as his lordship pretends they do . these are excellent waies of proof , and fit only for a church that pretends to be infallible , and then most of all , when her infallibility was to be proved . what did you lead us this long dance for , if you never intended to prove your church infallible ? could you not have referred us to bellarmine at first , as well as at last ? nay , and now you do turn us off to him , you bid us , go seek the notes of the church , and not the proofs of infallibility ; which , sure , are different things , unless you suppose no church true , but what is infallible . but however , you are sure not to miss the hereticks , they must have a blow at parting , they are out of the church , and do wholly want these signs of infallibility . what signs of infallibility ? speak out , and tell us , what they are , and where they lye , and how they may be known ? for otherwise we may mistake in the physiognomy of your church , and instead of signs of infallibility , we may see shrewd signs of imposture and delusion in her . and it is the more suspicious , because you are so afraid of producing them after so solemn a promise to do it . however , you tell us , 't is sufficient for the present to have declared how catholicks fall not into a circle : well , i see , though we miss of of the coals s. laurence was broyled on , we shall have a feather from the wing of a seraphim ; though you fail of your promise , we shall have something as good ; and as great a feat of activity as that had been , viz. to let us see , how the papists dance in a round , and yet make no circle . your demonstrations are so good in this kind , it is pity you do not imploy your excellent wit in squaring mathematical circles , as well as this ; and i shall as soon hope to see you perform the one , as the other . but , can you , without smiling at our simplicity , tell us , ( after such a wide-mouthed promise ; as you made in the page foregoing ; but , because we have often promised to prove the infallibility of the church , it will be necessary to insist somewhat longer upon this point , and declare the matter at large ) that it is enough to vindicate your selves from the circle ? was this the thing you promised , or the proofs of your churches infallibility ? i confess quid feret hic tanto dignum promissor hiatu ? came into my mind at first reading those words , and it proves accordingly . you really meant no such thing , as proving your church infallible : and you are very excusable in it , though you had promised it ; for no promise can bind to impossibilities . but it may be yet , though these proofs do not come after the promise , they may have gone before it ; for i find before a large catalogue mentioned of such signs and motives , which may prove the churches infallibility , as sanctity of life , miracles , efficacy , purity and excellency of doctrine , fulfilling of prophecies , succession of lawfully sent pastors , vnity , antiquity , and the very name of catholick , &c. number enough , if that would do it . but we shall see , what force these motives are of , by these following queries . . is it all one with you , to know a church to be true , and to make it infallible ? these you call the motives of credibility for your churches infallibility , were wont to be esteemed only the notes of distinction of the true church from all others . the question , i suppose , concerning these , had this rise . there being , after the reformation , several distinct societies of men , pretending to be the true christian church , to which every christian ought to associate himself ; there was a necessity of pitching on some way , whereby the true christian church might be distinguished from other communions ; which begat a new controversie , what were the proper notes of this society . those of your party , as bellarmine tells you , differed much in the number of them : some of which are those by you mentioned ; but whether they be the true notes of the church or no , which hath been largely examined by others , what are these to the proof of infallibility , setting aside that of miracles ? is it not possible that there should be a society of men joyning together in the profession of christian religion , but these men must presently be infallible in whatever they deliver as the sense of their society ? their visible profession of christian religion , makes them a true church : but cannot men seem to profess our religion , unless they have a visible infallible head to guide them ? is infallibility the soul of a church , which gives it its being , i mean , a present infallibility continually actuating and informing the body of it ? cannot a man be known to be a true man , unless he be inspired ? nor a church distinguished from other societies , but by a spirit of infallibility ? the truth is , let bellarmine multiply his fifteen notes of the church to fifteen hundred , if he please ; nay , let it pretend to what infallibility it please : if any society of men challenging the name of church to it self , do destroy the end of its constitution , or hold any thing directly contrary to the foundation of its institution ; all other notes in the world can never make it a true church . so that the only certain note of a true church , is its agreement with the primary foundation of it in that doctrine which was infallible , and attested by miracles undoubtedly divine : that which holds the doctrine of christ , is the christian church ; and the nearer any society comes to that , the purer it is ; the more it is distant from it , the more impure : and no man who honours the christian religion , can be bound to communicate with the impurities of such a church , let it bear it never so high under the pretence of infallibility . if you boast never so much of your vnity , succession , antiquity , the name of catholick , &c. if your doctrine be repugnant to what was originally delivered by the founder of the christian church ; your society is not the true christian church . but , suppose it were , and that it were known so to be by such notes as these are ; can you not conceive a church should be consonant to the doctrine of christ , but it must be it self infallible in deciding controversies ? cannot you imagine a society consisting of all true christians in the world , should be made up of such persons who all firmly believe that doctrine infallible which christ delivered , but yet judge themselves all fallible , and dare not usurp that royal prerogative of heaven , in prescribing infallibly in matters questioned , but leave all to judge according to the pandects of the divine laws , because each member of this society is bound to take care of his soul , and of all things that tend thereto ? is such an idea of a christian church , a thing unreasonable , inconsistent , or contrary to any law of its foundation ; or rather , is it not a very true and just representation of that society of men , which our blessed saviour instituted as a church in the world ? . do you mean , that these motives should prove the christian church at large infallible , or your present particular universal church of rome ? for some of your motives seem to respect the one , and the rest the other notion of it . when you mention miracles , efficacy , purity and excellency of doctrine , fulfilling of prophecies , do you really intend these for the proof of your present roman-churches infallibility , as that is distinct from all other churches of christians in the world ? if you do ( as you must , if you speak to the purpose ) shew us what miracles , efficacy , purity and excellency of doctrine there are in your church beyond and beside all other churches in the world : what fulfilling of prophecies among you , which makes your church infallible ? is it the prophecy , that your church shall be infallible that is fulfilled ? shew then to us where that prophecy is , and how it appears to be fulfilled ? is it because your church pretends to be infallible ? i do heartily acknowledge , some prophecies are therein fulfilled , but such as your church hath little ground to be proud of their accomplishment . but , to all impartial christians , the accomplishment of those prophecies , which speak of the degenerate state of the church , as they are a great confirmation of the infallibility of the divine revealer of them , when they see it so remarkably in the signatures of your church ; so they are far from being any motive of credibility to them to prove your church to be infallible . unless it be meant that the state of your church is an infallible evidence that those prophesies are fulfilled . but i pray , why should fulfilling of prophesies , make your church infallible ? i had rather thought , if you could have proved your church to have been prophetical , it had been more to your purpose . and if your popes in cathedrâ had foretold future events , which by their coming to pass , had evidenced to the world they had a true spirit of prophesie , then indeed you had said something towards infallibility . but that the meer fulfilling of prophesies , owned divine by all christians , should prove your church infallible , is such a motive of credibility concerning that infallibility , that it proves nothing , but by this consequence , if christ were infallible , then your church is . or do you mean , because some prophesies concerning your church are fulfilled , therefore your church is infallible ; by the same reason i hope you will not deny , but that antichrist is infallible , for when ever he did , doth , or shall appear , no doubt there will be fulfilling of prophesies , and those very clear ones too . and therefore antichrist and your pope may go together for infallibility . but it may be yet you have some other motives besides fulfilling prophesies , and those are miracles ; now you speak indeed to the purpose . but yet still we poor infidels ( because out of your church ) desire a little satisfaction concerning them too . . we very reasonably desire , that he in your church who pretends most to infallibility , should do these miracles himself . for that was alwayes the way in scripture , for them whose testimony was to be believed infallible , to be the workers of those miracles which should induce men to believe such an infallibility . do you think the israelites would have believed moses infallible , if any ordinary israelite had wrought those miracles which he did ? unless you would suppose that those miracles were purposely wrought to have attested that moses was infallible . but yet god thought it much more fit , that moses himself should be the instrument of doing them , and so it was with our blessed saviour . let then your church produce the several miracles wrought by your popes to attest their infallibility ; or , if you believe pope and council the subject of infallibility , produce the miracles to prove that . god was alwayes so just and reasonable , as not to expect the belief of any infallibility without such evidences given for it as might perswade men to believe it : and you acknowledge , that independently on scripture there can be no such proof of infallibility as miracles , and you require it from us to believe the present church infallible , where then are your present miracles wrought to attest this infallibility ? for as long as you require such an assent to the present churches infallibility , it is necessary on your own grounds , that the present church should alwayes work miracles in order to the proving this infallibility . . we desire such miracles as may sufficiently convince the infidels as to this point of your infallibility . for that was alwayes the way used in scripture ; the intention of miracles was to perswade those who did not believe . would pharaoh , or the aegyptians have believed moses , if all his miracles had been wrought in a corner , where none but israelites had been present ? would the jews have believed in christ , if he had not come in publick among them , and wrought such frequent , publick , and uncontrouled miracles , that his greatest enemies durst not deny them ? if you would then have us believe your present churches infallibility , let your pope , or at least your priests come and do such kind of miracles among us which may bear the examination of inquisitive men , and then try whether we will not believe your infallibility ; but till then , excuse us . think not we are of such easie faith , that the pretended growing out of a leg in spain , or any of your famous miracles wrought by your priests in italy , will perswade us to believe your church infallible . it is alwayes observed , your miracles are most talked on , where people are most ignorant , and therefore most apt to be deceived . your priests , like the devils in the primitive times , can do no feats when their opposers are by ; it is an easie thing for a stump to grow a leg in its passage from spain hither ; for fama crescit eundo ; such things are most believed where circumstances are least capable of examination . and the juglings and impostures of your priests have been so notorious in this kind , that their pretences to miracles have made more infidels then catholicks , by making men more apt to question , whether ever there were any real miracles done , then believe the truth of yours . very likely then it is , that you should perswade the world your church is infallible , because of the miracles wrought in it . . what discrimination do you put between those lying wonders which you are foretold shall be wrought at the coming of antichrist , and those pretended miracles which are wrought among you ? convince us by sufficient evidence , that the things which seem most confirmed by your miracles , viz. invocation of saints , is a thing consonant to the doctrine established by the undoubted miracles of christ and his apostles ? if it be contrary to it , either you must prove that doctrine false ; or , if you admit it true , you prove your miracles to be false : because contrary to a doctrine established by miracles undoubtedly divine . and god can never be supposed to attest with miracles the truth of doctrines contrary to each other . and thence the wisest of your church are so far from insisting on this of miracles for a motive of credibility concerning your churches infallibility , that they leave it out from being a note of the church ; because hereticks , as they say , may as to all outward appearance work as great miracles as the best catholicks . and therefore bellarmin saith , no man can have an absolute certainty concerning the truth of miracles , because the devil , though he cannot work true miracles , can work , as to appearance , the greatest . therefore since the confirmation of christian religion by miracles undoubtedly divine , there can be no relyance on the tryal of miracles for the truth of any doctrine : for those very miracles and doctrine must be judged according to that rule of faith which was confirmed by divine miracles . thus we have examined those motives which seem most to prove infallibility , and shewn how little they agree to the present churches infallibility . . as to the other motives , what evidence do you produce , that where-ever they are , the church is infallible ; and , that these do infallibly belong to your church ? for both these must be made evident , or you do nothing . now these motives are , sanctity of life , succession , vnity , antiquity , and the very name of catholick , &c. how hard is it to conceive the connexion between these and infallibility ! nay , they are so far from it , that it hath been abundantly proved against your party , that these are no certain notes of the true church , ( which is a controversie i shall not now discuss ) . and if the church cannot be proved to be true by them , much less certainly will it be proved to be infallible . but suppose all this , is your church so remarkable for sanctity of life , that it should be a motive for your infallibility ? have your popes been indeed such holy men , that we may not question but they were moved by the holy ghost when they spake ? certainly , you have some other way to know it then all histories both of friends and enemies , and the constant fame of the world , which hath then much abused us with stories quite of another nature . or , is the state of your church so pure and holy , that it must shew it self infallible by that ? but whom will you be judged by in this case ? i desire you not to stand to the verdict of your adversaries . will you believe men of your own communion ? pray read what sad complaints are made of the degenerate state of your church by petrarch , mantuan , clemangis , espencaeus , erasmus , cassander , and several others , and judge you whether we have not reason to cry up the sanctity of your church . but these , ( it may be you will say ) were discontented persons . will you believe then your cardinals ? and if ever you will believe them , it should certainly be , when they meet to advise concerning the state of your church ; and was not this the expression of the colledge of chosen cardinals for reformation of the church , under paul . per nos , inquimus , per nos , nomen christi blasphematur apud gentes . is not this a great evidence of your sanctity ? if you will not believe the cardinals , you will not certainly question the judgement of him whom you would fain have to be infallible , the pope himself . and these are the words of adrian . in his instructions to his legat at the diet of norimberg a. d. . scimus in hâc sede aliquot jam annis multa abominanda fuisse , abusus in spiritualibus , excessus in mandatis , & omnia denique in perversum mutata . if ever pope was infallible he was in saying so , and he could not but be in cathedrâ when he said it . you see then what evidence you have from your selves concerning that sanctity of life which is in your church . but it may be still , you do not mean real sanctity , but that the doctrine of your church tends more to promote it , then that of any other church . i heartily wish , the quite contrary could not be too truly said of it , and it is well known , that one of your great artifices whereby you perswade great persons to your religion , is , the liberty it indulgeth them in sin here , and yet the hopes it gives them of heaven hereafter . our doctrine requires indispensable obedience to all the precepts of christ : yours tells them , those which are the most strict and severe , are not precepts , but counsels of perfection . ours , that there is no hope of salvation without hearty amendment of life : yours , that pennance is requisite and external satisfaction to the church ; and for internals , that contrition is very commendable , but if there be not that , attrition will serve the turn . ours , charges men to look to their salvation in this life , because when life is ended their estate is irrecoverable : yours , that though men dye in their sins , yet they may be relieved by the prayers of the living , and that there is hope they may get through purgatory to heaven at last . so that supposing any persons to own christianity to be true , it is hard to conceive there should be more artifices imagined to reconcile the love of the pleasures of sin here with the hopes of heaven at last , than are used by those of your profession . so that if i should suppose my self a heathen philosopher , and any of your profession should come and tell me , these were the precepts , and these the promises of christian religion , but i could believe none of them , but by the infallible proposition of your church , and that i was to know your church infallible by that sanctity of life which was in it ; when i had throughly considered not only the impieties committed by the great ones of your religion , even in rome in the first place , but the artifices used to enervate all the precepts of real sanctity , and so plainly to see what interest and design is carried on under all these disguises : i should be insuperably assaulted with the thoughts that those of your religion who were the authours of these things , were so far from believing your church infallible , that they really believed neither christian nor any other religion in the world . so much for that sanctity of life which is in your chuch . as for your other motives of vnity , succession , antiquity , and the name of catholick , &c. they have so little affinity with any pretence of infallibility , and do equally agree to those churches , as the greek and abyssine , which you are so far from acknowledging infallible , that you will not grant them to be true churches ( notwithstanding these motives ) that i cannot easily imagine to what end you produced them , unless to let us see , you had the gift of saying something , though nothing to the purpose . when you have thus apparently failed in producing any shadow of proof for your churches infallibility by these motives of credibility , we now come to see how good you are at the defensive part , who have been so unhappy in your attempts . therefore we must consider what arts you use in putting by the force of those arguments which are produced against you by his lordship . after he had urged that question against you , how it may appear that your church is infallibly governed by the holy ghost , to which we have seen how impossible it is for you to give any satisfactory answer , he proceeds to another argument which lies in these words ; besides , this is an inviolable ground of reason , that the principles of any conclusion must be of more credit then the conclusion it self . therefore if the articles of faith , the trinity , the resurrection , and the rest , be the conclusions , and the principles by which they are proved be only ecclesiastical tradition ; it must needs follow , that the tradition of the church is more infallible then the articles of faith , if the faith which we have of the articles should be finally resolved into the veracity of the churches testimony . to this your answer is very considerable . . you tell us , that the ground of all this discourse is the authority of aristotle cited in the margent , which you repeat after him . but i pray , whence learn'd you that this was all the ground of his discourse ? for his lordship doth not say , that aristotle saith so , and therefore it is so ; but saies , that it is an inviolable ground of reason , ( which words you prudently left out , that there might appear some shadow for such a cavil ) and cites only the concurrent testimony of aristotle with that evidence of reason which is in it . and will you deny this to be an undoubted principle in reason , that , that which is assumed as the ground and reason why i assent to any thing , must be more certain and evident , then that is which i assent to on that ground ? certainly you must have an art above all other men to make the superstructure stronger then the foundation ; the particular problems in mathematicks , more evident then the postulata ; the conclusion , surer then the premisses . but you think to come off this absurdity . . by distinguishing between science and faith , or , as you express it , between the proceeding of the understanding when it works naturally and necessarily , by and from the evidence and clearness of its object : and when it works supernaturally and produceth supernatural and free acts , meerly or at least principally from the impulse and inclination of the will ; for in such cases the maxim holds not , viz. that the principles of a conclusion must be of more credit then the conclusion it self . now the act of believing is such an act ; that is , which the understanding elicites , rather by a voluntary and free inclination and consent of the will , then from any evident certainty in the object whereto it assents . a most judicious and profound discourse ! to which i know not whether ever i can perswade my will , but i am sure , i never shall my understanding . lest you should think , it is only some impulse of my will which hinders my assent , i shall fairly lay down the reasons which keep me from it . . that all assent of the understanding is grounded upon evidence . . that however that evidence proceeds , yet the foundation of assent must be more evident then the thing assented to . and these two i suppose will fully reach the scope of your answer , by shewing that your distinction of acts natural and supernatural , is both untrue and impertinent . . that all assent is grounded upon evidence , i. e. that no man can assent to any thing meerly because he will , but there must be sufficient reason inducing and perswading to that assent . you acknowledge this to be true in acts of knowledge , but not of faith ; but , what do you make to be the genus in your definition of faith ? i suppose you will say , it is an assent of the mind . if it be so , the mind cannot be supposed to elicite an act of the same nature in so repugnant a manner to it self , that it should assent to any thing without evidence . i know what discourses those of your party have , concerning the obscurity which is necessary to faith. if you mean obscurity as to the object believed , i. e. that the matters to be believed are not so clear to us as demonstrations , i will not gainsay it : but if you mean obscurity or want of evidence , as to the reason inducing me to believe , i utterly deny any such obscurity to belong to faith , or to be consistent with it . for god doth not require us to believe any thing without sufficient grounds for our believing it , and those grounds do bear a proportionable evidence to the nature of that assent which he requires . if he requires an infallible assent he gives infallible grounds ; if he requires a firm and certain assent , he gives firm and certain grounds ; if he requires only a probable assent , he gives only probable evidence . but still , such as the nature of the assent is , such is the evidence he gives for it . to make this plainer by an instance . that christ was the true messias , he requires an assent built upon infallible grounds , and therefore god gave such infallible evidence of it by the miracles which he wrought . that these miracles were once really done , he requires our firm assent , and therefore gives certain evidence by an universal and uncontrouled tradition ; but whether st. paul or any other apostolical person were authour of the epistle to the hebrews , he requires only an assent built on the most probable grounds , and therefore he hath given us no more for it . but still as the assent is , so the evidence must be . for faith being an act of the mind , whose nature is to judge according to reason , we cannot suppose any act of it to proceed in a brutish manner by a meer impulse of the will. i deny not , but the will may be said to have some kind of influence upon the understanding , both in furthering and hindering assent : but it is not by any command it hath over the mind in its acts , but as it can divert the mind from , or incline it to , the searching into the evidence of the things . therefore when we commonly say , facile credimus quae volumus , and so on the contrary ; it is not because of the wills immediate power upon the understanding , but , as the desire of a thing makes us inquisitive after it , so the dislike of it makes us unwilling to hear the reasons for it , and ready to entertain any pretence against it . thus , i grant , the will may have power upon the mind as to the eliciting the act of faith , not that i can assent to a thing as true , because i desire it to be true ; but this inclination of the will removes those impediments which would obstruct my discovery of the evidence which is in it . you havs certainly a mind of another mould then others have that can believe thing which do not appear credible to you ; yet such a kind of faith as this , is very necessary for your churches infallibility ; and for that , your discourse of believing by the impulse of the will , is very proper and seasonable . but other persons may think it an imperfection in their minds , that they cannot believe any thing any further than it appears credible ; that is , that they can go no further than they have legs ; nor see when their eyes are shut , or the room dark . but , it may be , you will tell me , all this discourse proceeds on supposition , that faith were a natural act of the mind ; but you speak of a supernatural faith. it may be so ; but , i hope , you speak not of an irrational faith , which must believe things beyond the evidence of their credibility . faith , whether natural or supernatural , acquired or infused , is still an act of the mind ; and let it have but what belongs to it as such , and call it what you will. i deny not a peculiar operation of grace , in the eliciting the act of divine faith ; but still i say , the manner whereby it is wrought , must be agreeable to the nature of the vnderstanding , and by discovering the credibility which is in the objects of faith. if you say , the assent is infused , i must say , the evidence is first infused ; for as christ , when he healed the blind , did not make them see objects which did not appear visible ; so neither doth the spirit of god in planting faith make men discern objects which do not appear credible ; and the stronger the assent is , the greater is the evidence and credibility of the object . and can you call then that any free inevident assent , which goes no further than the object appears credible ? it cannot be then any act of the will , but meerly of the mind , which yields assent to any object propounded as credible to it . so that in what way and manner assent is required , in that same manner doth god give proportionable evidence : i deny not but that assent is required to objects inevident to sense and reason ; but then i say , the assent is not required to what is obscure and inevident ; but to what is evident to us , and therefore credible . in the incarnation of the son of god , the manner of the hypostatical vnion is to us inevident , but then god doth not require our assent to the manner , but to the truth of the thing it self . where-ever god requires us to believe any thing as true , he gives us evidence that it is so : where-ever it appears the thing is inevident , we may lawfully suspend our assent , and , for all that i know , it is our duty so to do . but yet you have not done with this profound discourse ; for you very learnedly distinguish a double proceeding in probations ; the one is , per principia intrinseca , which you very well english ( by intrinsecal principles ) i. e. such as have a necessary , natural connexion with the things proved , and do manifest and lay open the objects themselves ; the other is , per principia extrinseca ( by extrinsecal principles ) that is , such as have no natural or necessary connexion with , nor do produce any such evident manifestation of the things proved , but their efficacy , ( viz. whereby they determine the understanding to assent ) doth wholly depend on the worth and vertue of that external principle , whereby such probations are made . this you apply to knowledge and faith , that as knowledge proceeds in the former way , so faith doth in the latter , which depends purely upon extrinsecal principles , viz. the authority , veracity , goodness , and knowledge of god affirming it ; which was immediately known to the prophets and apostles , but mediately to us , which how●ver , must be infallibly conveyed to us , which can only be by the testimony of the church . this is the substance of your third section ; to which i answer , . that all certainty in the acts of the mind , whether in knowledge or faith , must equally suppose the truth of some extrinsecal principles , viz. the veracity and goodness of god : for otherwise we cannot certainly judge of those you call principia intrinseca , to know what things have necessary and natural connexion with the things proved . for , unless i suppose that god is so true and good , as not to suffer me to be deceived in the proper actings of my faculties , i may judge such things to have connexions and dep●ndencies one upon another , which really have nothing so . and therefore , so far your distinction concerning science and faith , will not hold . but . if the meaning of this distinction be only this , that there is a different proceeding in a demonstration , from what there is in an act of faith , i deny it not ; but suppose it nothing to your purpose . for , though the evidence be discovered in a different way , yet there is in both proportionable evidence to the nature of the assent . when i assent , because i know that the thing is true , the evidence of the thing it self , is the ground of that assent ; but , when i assent upon the authority of any person , the credibility of his testimony , is the evidence on which that assent is grounded . though this latter evidence be of another kind , yet it is sufficient for that act of the mind , which is built upon it ; and that testimony which i establish a firm assent upon , must be as evident in its kind , i. e. of credibility , as the evidence of a thing demonstrable in the nature of a demonstration . . the main strength of your answer seems to lye in this , that in such an assent as is built upon authority ; as in the case of faith , when we do not immediately hear god speaking , but it is conveyed to us by the testimony of others , it is necessary that this testimony be infallible . but , good sir , this is not our present question , whether it be necessary that this testimony be infallibly conveyed to us , but , supposing such an infallible conveyance , whether that infallible testimony must not be more credible than the matters which are believed upon it ? but , as though never any such thing had been started : you give us a long discourse of the different proceeding of science and faith , but never offer to apply it to the business in hand . i must therefore ingenuously commend you for an excellent art of gliding insensibly away from a business you cannot answer , and casting out a great many words not to the purpose , that you may seem to touch the matter , when you are far enough from it . and therefore i say , secondly , that however the evidence proceeds in matters of faith , yet whatever is the foundation of assent , must be more evident than the thing assented to . especially where you suppose the assent to be infallible , and the testimony infallible , which must ascertain it to us . this will be plainer by an instance . if i ask you , why you believe the resurrection of the dead , your answer is , because of the authority of him that reveals it : the next question then is , why you believe that god hath revealed it ; your answer is , because the testimony of the church is infallible which delivers it . whereby it is plain , that though your first answer be from god's authority , yet the last resolution of your faith , is , the infallibility of your churches testimony ; and that being the last resolution , that infallibility must be the principle on which the belief of the rest depends . for , according to your principles , though god had revealed it , yet if this revelation were not attested by the infallible testimony of your church , we should not have sufficient ground to believe it . and if without that , we can have no sufficient ground to believe , then this principle the church is infallible , must be more credible than the resurrection of the dead . which was the absurdity his lordship charged upon you , and you are far from being able to quit your self of . the next thing which you busie your self much in answering of , is , that according to these principles of resolution of faith , you make the churches testimony the formal object of faith , which you acknowledge your self to be a great absurdity , and therefore make use of many shifts to avoid . i shall reduce the substance of your verbose , and immethodical answer into as narrow a compass as i can , without defalking any thing of the strength of it . you tell us then , that our faith is resolved into god's revelations , whether written , or unwritten , as its formal object ; and our infallible assurance , that the things we believe as god's revelations are revealed from him , is resolved into the infallibility of the churches definitions , teaching us , that they are his revelations ; and that the formal cause of our assent in divine faith , is god's revelation delivered to the church without writing ; but , because that is as it were at distance from us , it is approximated , or immediately applied to us by the infallible declaration of the present church . hence it appears , our faith rests only upon god's revelation as its formal object , though the churches voice be a condition so necessary for its resting thereon , that it can never attain that formal object without it . and lastly , you tell us , the churches authority then being more known to us than the scriptures , may well be some reason of our admitting them , yet the scriptures still retain their prerogative above the church : and thence you distinguish of the certainty of the object and subject ; from all which you conclude , that the churches definition is not the formal object of faith , but that our faith relyes upon it as an infallible witness both of the written and unwritten word of god , which is the formal object . this is the substance , in your long answer , of what hath the face of reason and pertinency : which i come to a close and particular examination of . and that you may not say , i pass over this important controversie , without a through discussion of it ; i shall first prove , that it necessarily follows from your principles , that the churches infallible testimony must be the formal object of faith. and . that the answers you give are far from being satisfactory that it is not . . that it necessarily follows from your principles , that the churches infallible testimony must be the formal object of faith. in order to which , we must consider , what the scope and design of this discourse is , concerning the resolution of faith. the question started by mr. fisher , in the conference , was , how his lordship knew scripture to be scripture , or , how the divine authority of the scriptures was to be proved . to this his lordship returns a large answer , to which you attempt a reply in this chapter , and mention this to be the main question , how scriptures may be known to be the word of god. to this , you tell us , no satisfactory answer can be given , but from the infallible testimony of the church , and the great reason given by you in all your discourse , is this , that this is an article to be believed with divine faith , and divine faith must be built on an infallible testimony . the question then resulting hence , is , whether on these principles you do not make the infallible testimony of the church , the formal object of faith ? you deny , and we affirm it ; but before i come to the particular evidences of the cause , some generall postulata must be laid down , which by the very state of the controversie , must be acknowledged by you , which are ; . that the question in dispute is not concerning the formal object of all things divinely revealed , but concerning the believing this to be a particular divine revelation . for , it is obvious to any one that considers , what vast difference there is between those two questions , why you believe that to be true which god hath revealed ; the plain and easie resolution of this , is , into the veracity and infallibility of god , in all his revelations . but it is quite another question , when i ask , why you believe this to have been a true divine revelation ? or that such particular books contain the word of god. and it is apparent , by the whole process of the the dispute , that the question is not concerning the first , but the second of these two . . that the question is not concerning any kind of perswasion , as to this divine revelation , but concerning that which you call divine faith. . that this divine faith must be resolved into some testimony supposed infallible . these three are things agreed on between both parties , as appears by the whole management of this controversie . only you suppose this infallible testimony to be the church , which your adversary denies , and saith , it will follow from thence , that you make your churches testimony the formal object of faith , which i thus prove : . that which is the only ground and foundation whereon a divine faith is built , must be the formal object of faith : but the infallible testimony of your church , is the only foundation whereon faith is built . by the formal object of faith , i suppose you and i mean the same thing , which is the foundation whereon the certainty of the assent is grounded , or the principal objective cause of faith , viz. not every account that may be given why men believe , but that which is the only certain foundation to establish a divine faith upon . now , let any one but consider what the question is , and what your resolution is , and then judge , whether you make not the churches testimony the formal object . the question is , how we know the scriptures to be the word of god ; which in other terms is , what the ground is why i assent to the doctrine contained in scripture as a divine revelation ? you say , the testimony of the scripture it self cannot be that ground ; you say , the testimony of the spirit cannot be it ; you say , a moral certainty cannot be it , because then it is not divine faith : what then is the reason why you believe it ? do you not over and over say , it is because of the infallible testimony of the church , which gives us unquestionable assurance that this was a divine revelation ; and yet for all this , this testimony is not the formal object of this divine faith. the most charitable apprehension i can have of you , when you write things so inconsistent , is , either that you understand not , or consider not what you write of , but take what hath been said in such cases by men of your own party , and right or wrong that serves for an answer . but for all this , you tell us confidently , that your faith is not resolved into the voice of the church , as into its formal object ; but it is enough to say , our faith is resolved into god's revelations ( whether written or unwritten ) as its formal object : and our infallible assurance , that the things we believe are divine revelations , is resolved into the infallibility of the churches definitions . these are excellent notions if they would hang together . but , . we enquire not what is enough to say in such a case , but what ground you have for saying what you do . you have enough to say upon many subjects in this book ( or else your book would never have swell'd to the bulk it hath ) but you have generally very little reason for what you say . . is that infallible assurance , that the things we believe as god's revelations , are revealed from him , a thing call'd faith or no ? if it be , as i hope you will not deny it , then by your own confession , faith is resolved into the churches testimony as its formal object ; for , you say , this infallible assurance is resolved into the infallibility of the churches definitions , teaching us , that they are his revelations . these are your own words . and , do you yet deny this testimony of the church to be the formal object of this infallible assurance ? . what is it you mean , when you say , that faith is resolved into god's revelations as its formal object ? is it , that the reason why we believe , is , because god hath revealed these things to us ? but that , you know , is not the matter at all in question , but , how we come to assent to such a doctrine as a divine revelation ? answer me punctually to it ; can you possibly resolve your faith into any thing else , as its formal object ? if you can , i pray do us the favour to name it . if you resolve this faith , as you seem to express your mind , into divine revelation , as its formal object ; shew us where that revelation is extant , for which you believe scripture to be the word of god. is it the scripture it self , or a revelation distinct from it ? if you say , it is the scripture it self , then you must make the infallible testimony of your church needless ; for then we may have infallible assurance , that the things we believe are divine revelations , without your churches testimony or definitions : then , what is become of the unwritten tradition you mention in these words , if then it be demanded , why we believe such books as are contained in the bible to be the word of god ; we answer , because it is a divine unwritten tradition , that they are his word ; and this divine tradition is the formal object , whereon our faith relyes . well then , our last resolution of faith is into this divine unwritten tradition : but , whence come you to know , that this tradition is divine ? into what revelation is the belief of that finally resolved ? doth it appear to be so by it self , and then why may not the scripture ? or hath it some other revelation , and divine tradition to attest it ? and then the same question returns concerning that , and so in infinitum , or else of necessity you must acknowledge one of these two things ; either that some divine revelation may sufficiently manifest it self , without any infallible testimony of your church : or else , that this infallible testimony must be the formal object of faith. of these two , chuse which you please . . i prove that you must make the churches testimony the formal object of faith , because either you must make it so , or you must deny divine revelation to be the formal object of faith ; because the reason is equal for both . i demand then , how you resolve your belief of the truth of the doctrine of christ , you tell me , into divine revelation , as its formal object ? i ask yet further , why you believe the revelation made by christ to be divine . your answer must be , either that your churches testimony gives you infallible assurance of it , and then the former argument returns : or else that christ manifested his testimony to be infallible , and therefore his revelation divine , because of the motives of credibility , which accompanied his preaching . if this be your answer , as it must be by your former discourse , then by the same reason i prove your churches testimony to be the formal object of faith , because you have endeavoured to prove the churches infallibility by the same motives of credibility that moses and christ proved theirs . either therefore retract all your former discourse , or else confess , that by the same reason that the divine revelation made by christ , is the formal object of faith , the infallible testimony of your church must be so too . for according to your own supposition , there are equal motives of credibility , and therefore equal obligation to believe the infallibility of one as of the other . . if the only reason which makes any thing be the formal object agrees to the testimony of your church , then that testimony must be the formal object of faith to them that believe it . now , that which is the only reason which makes any thing to be the formal object of faith , is the supposition that it is infallible . for , why do you resolve your faith finally into divine revelation ? is it not because you suppose god to be infallible in all revelations of himself ; and therefore if your church be infallible , as you say it is , by the same reason that must be the formal object of faith ; as if it were by the revelation of god himself ? but here you think to obviate this objection by some strange distinctions concerning your infallibility . you tell us therefore , the churches infallibility is not absolutely and simply divine ; or that god speaks immediately by her definitions : but only that she is supernaturally infallible , by the assistance of the holy ghost preserving her from all errour , in defining any thing as a point of christian faith , that is , as a truth revealed from god , which is not truly and really so revealed . a rare distinction this ! you say afterwards , the churches definition is absolutely infallible , but yet this infallibility is not absolutely and simply divine : i pray tell us , what is it then ? you say , it is supernatural , but not divine , and this supernatural infallibility , by the assistance of the holy ghost securing from all errour , but yet not absolutely and precisely divine : i pray tell us , what kind of infallibility that was which the apostles had in delivering the doctrine of christ , was that any more than such a supernatural infallibility as you fondly arrogate to your church , viz. such a one as might secure them from all errour in defining any thing as a point of christian faith , which was not so , that is , as a truth revealed from god , which was not truly and really so revealed . and yet , i suppose , you will not deny , but those who lived in the apostles times , might resolve their faith into that infallibility which they had as its formal object , and therefore why not as well into your churches infallibility , since you pretend to as great infallibility in your church as ever was in the apostles . thus , i hope , i have shewn it impossible for you , not to make the churches testimony the formal object of faith , since you make it infallible as you do . . we come now to consider , the little evasions and distinctions , whereby you hope to get out of this labyrinth . but , having so manifestly proved , that it follows from your principles , that the churches testimony is the formal object of faith , all your distinctions fall of themselves ; for thereby it appears , that your churches testimony is not meerly a necessary condition of believing , but is the formal cause and reason of it , therefore your instance of approximation in natural causes , is nothing to the purpose . no more is that of a commonwealth's practising the same laws , being an argument that those were its primitive laws : unless you suppose it impossible , . that a common-wealth should ever alter its laws . or , . that it should practise contrary to its primitive laws . or . that it should be supernaturally infallible in judging which are primitive laws , and which not ; without these suppositions , i say , that instance signifies nothing to the business in hand ; and when you have proved these true , i will give you a further answer . your answer to aristotles text , or rather to that undoubted maxim of reason , with which the citation of aristotle concurred , hath been considered already . your answer to the testimony of canus , is like the rest of your discourse , trivial , and not to the purpose ; for canus doth not only deny the churches testimony to be the formal object of faith , but the necessity of believing its testimony to be infallible . non intelligitur necessariò , quod credo docenti ecclesiae tanquam testi infallibili , are the very words of the testimony cited in the margin of his lordships books . your next section affords us some more words , but not one drachm more of reason . for , how do you prove , that the churches authority is more known to us than the scriptures ? or , how can you make it appear , that there is any authority , but what is relative to us , and therefore the distinction is in it self silly , of authority in se , & quoad nos . for , whatever hath authority , hath thereby a respect to some it hath its authority over . and , can any thing be a ground of faith simply and in it self , which is not so towards us : for the formal object of faith , is that for whose sake we believe , and therefore , if divine revelation be , as you say , the formal object of faith , then it must be more known to us , than the testimony of the church : for , that must be more known to us , which is the main cause of believing . but , if all your meaning be , that we must first know what the church delivers for scripture , before we can judge whether it were divinely revealed or no : i grant it to be true ; but what is this to your infallibility ? will you prove the infallibility of your church to be more known to us , than that of the scriptures ; and , on supposition that were true , can you then prove that the scriptures should still retain their prerogative above the church ? what your authors distinguish concerning objective and subjective certainty , pertains not to this place ; for the worth and dignity of the scriptures , may exceed that of tradition , yet , when the knowledge of that worth , relyes on that tradition , your esteem of the one , must be according to your esteem of the other . i will not here enquire , whether the adhesion of the will , can exceed the clearness of the vnderstanding ; nor , whether aristotle was unacquainted with subjective certainty ; nor whether our adhesion to articles of faith , be stronger than to any principles evident to natural reason : for , i look upon all these assertions to serve you in no other capacity , than as excursions from the matter in hand ; and therefore i shall not gratifie you so far as particularly to examine them . for all then that hath been yet produced by you , his lordships argument remains good , that , according to your principles , the churches testimony must be made the formal object of faith , and i am the more confirmed in it by the weakness of your evasions ; and , i hope , i have now made good those words which you challenge his lordship for , that it were no hard thing to prove it . the next absurdity charged upon you by his lordship , is , that all the authorities of fathers , councils , nay of scripture too , must be finally resolved into the authority of the present roman church : and , though they would seem to have us believe the fathers , and the church of old ; yet they will not have us take their doctrine from their own writings , or the decrees of councils , because , as they say , we cannot know by reading them , what their meaning was , but from the infallible testimony of the present roman church teaching by tradition . and this , he tells you , is , the cunning of this devise . to which you answer ; by what hath been said , it appears , that there is no device or cunning at all , either in taking away any thing due to the fathers , councils , or scripture ; or in giving too much to the tradition of the present church . for we acknowledge all due respect to the fathers , and as much ( to speak modestly ) as any of our adversaries party . but , they must pardon us , if we prefer the general interpretation of the present church , before the result of any mans particular phansie . as for scripture , we ever extol it above the definitions of the church , yet affirm it to be in many places so obscure , that we cannot be certain of its true sense , without the help of a living , infallible judge , to determine and declare it , which can be no other than the present church . and what we say of scripture , may , with proportion , be applied to ancient general councils . for , though we willingly submit to them all , yet where they happen to be obscure in matters requiring determination , we seek the assistance and direction of the same living infallible rule , viz. the tradition , or the sentence of the present church . the question is , supposing your churches testimony to be infallible , without which we can have no assurance of what fathers , scriptures , and councils say , what authority remains among you , to any , or all of these ? and it is not , what respect , you tell us , you give them ; ( for you may as easily speak , as believe contradictions ) but what is really left to them , if your opinion concerning the present churches infallibility be true . and he that cannot see the cunning of this device of resolving all into the authority of the present roman church , will never understand the interest of your church ; but , it seems , you apprehend it so much , as not to seem to do it , and have too much cunning to confess it . but , this must not be so easily passed over , this being one of the grand artifices of your church , to make a great noise with fathers , scriptures , and councils among those most , who understand them least , when your selves resolve them all into the present churches testimony . which is first to gagge them , and then bid them speak . first , for the fathers , you say , you acknowledge all due respect to them ; but the question is , what kind of respect that is which can be due to them , when , let them speak their minds never so plainly , and agree in what they please , and deliver what they will as the judgement of the church ; yet all this can give us no assurance at all on your principles , unless your church doth infallibly determine the same way . what then do the fathers signifie with you ? doth the infallibility of your churches definition depend on the consent of the fathers ? no , you tell us , she is supernaturally assisted by the holy ghost ; and if so , i suppose the judgement of the fathers is not that which she relyes on . but , it may be , you will say , this supernatural assistance directs the church to that which was the judgement of the fathers in all ages . this were something indeed , if it could be proved : but then i would never read the fathers , to know what their mind is , but aske your church what they meant : and , though your church delivers that as their sense , which is as opposite as may be , both to their words and judgements ; yet this is part of the respect due to them , not to believe whatever they say themselves , but what your church tells us they say . a most compendious way for interpreting fathers , and making them sure not to speak any thing against your church . therefore i cannot but commend the ingenuity of cornelius mussus , the bishop of bitonto , who spake that out , which more wary men are contented onely to think . ego , ut ingenuè fatear , plus uni summo pontitifici crediderim in his quae mysteria fidei tangunt , quàm mille augustinis , hieronymis , gregoriis . that i may deal freely , saith he , i would sooner believe the pope in matters of faith , than a thousand augustines , hieromes , and gregories . bravely said , and like a man that did heartily believe the pope's infallibility ! and yet no more than every one will be forced to do that understands the consequence of his own principles . and therefore alphonsus à castro was not to be blamed for preferring an epistle of anacletus ( though counterfeit ) because pope , before augustine , hierome , or any other however holy or learned . these men understood themselves , and the interest of their church . and , although the rest of them make finer leggs to the fathers , than these do ; yet when they seem to cross their way , and entrench upon their church , they find not much kinder entertainment for them . we may guess at the rest by two of them , men of great note in their several waies , the one for controversies , the other for his commentaries , viz. bellarmine and maldonate , and let us see , when occasion serves , how rudely they handle the fathers . if s. cyprian speaks against tradition , it was , saith bellarmine , in defence of his errour , and therefore no wonder if he argued after the manner of erroneous persons . if he opposeth stephen the bishop of rome , in the business of rebaptization ; he seemeth , saith he , to have erred mortally in it . if s. ambrose pronounce baptism in the name of christ , to be valid , without the naming other persons in the trinity ; bellarmine is not afraid to say , that , in his judgement , his opinion is false . if s. chrysostome saith , that it is better not to be present at the eucharist , than to be present , and not receive it ; i say ( saith bellarmine ) that chrysostome , as at other times went beyond his bounds in saying so . if s. augustine expound a place of scripture not to his mind , he tells him roundly , he did not throughly consider what he said . do not these things argue that due respect they had for the fathers ; so long as they think they can make them serve their turns , then who but the fathers ? if they appear refractory , and will not serve as hewers of wood , and drawers of water to them , then who are the fathers ? it is the churches judgement they rely on , and not the fathers . and therefore they never want waies themselves of eluding all the testimonies produced out of them : if they cannot say , those testimonies are forged ( as some of them say it , without any shew of reason , concerning that part of the epistle of epiphanius , about the tearing the vail , in which an image was painted at anablatha . ) and as bellarmine answers concerning the author of the imperfect work on matthew , because he saith , there is no way to the finding truth , but reading the scriptures ; he therefore saith , this whole place was inserted by the arrians ; as though that had been any part of the controversie between the arrians and others . if origen , or cyril , on leviticus , saith , it is necessary to follow the scriptures , then an answer is ready ▪ that these homilies are of no great authority : but if these will serve to defend the apocrypha ; if they speak of the obscurity of scripture ; if they mention the observation of lent ; if they speak of any thing tending to auricular confession , or pennance , then they are good and authentick enough . thus the price of the fathers rises and falls according to their vse , like slaves in the market . if yet the fathers seem to deliver their judgements peremptorily in a matter contrary to the present sense of their church , then either they speak it in the heat of disputation , or , if not , they were contradicted by others as good as they ; if many of them concurr , yet it was but their private judgement , not the sense of the catholick church which they delivered . still we see , the rate the fathers stand at , is their agreement with the present roman-church , if they differ from this , they were men like others , and might be deceived , only the pope is infallible , or at least the present roman-church . for , if hilary , gregory nyssen , chrysostome , cyril , augustine , and others say , that christ , when he said , vpon this rock will i build my church , understood peter's confession or himself , nihil magis alienum à sensu christi cogitari potuit , saith maldonate , nothing could be more incongruous than what they say . and in the next words tell us , that all the ancient writers except hilary , expounded , the gates of hell one way , but he gives another sense of them . the same liberty he takes in very many other places . by which we have a tast of that due respect which you owe to the fathers , which is , to value them , as far as they concurr with your church , and no more ; otherwise they are but the results of mens particular phancies , and not to be compared with the infallible judgement of your church . but , though it may not be so evident , that you give so great respect to the fathers , yet it is notorious what reverence you shew to the sacred scriptures . as for scripture ( say you ) we ever extol it above the definitions of the church : what , ever ! do you think we have forgot the brave comparisons which have been made by your writers , to shew the respect you bear to the scriptures ? is it not much for the honour of the scriptures , to be said to have no more authority than aesops fables , without the testimony of the church ? did not those extoll it above the church , who call'd it , a nose of wax ? and were not these some of you ? doth not bellarmine profess his high esteem of the scriptures , when he saith , that the scripture is no more to be believed , in saying , it is from god , than mahomets alcoran , because that saies so too ? did not caranza preferr the scripture before the church , when he said , that the scripture must be regulated by the church , and not the church by the scripture ? i need not mention eckius his evangelium nigrum and theologia atramentaria , pighius his plumbea lesbiae regula , valentia his lapis offensionis , bellarmin's commonitorium utile , which , and many others , are remaining testimonies of that monstruous esteem , which those of your party have of the sacred scriptures . but , if the esteem you have of the scriptures be so great , why lock you them up so carefully from the people in an unknown language ? is it , lest such jewels should lose their lustre by too often using ? why are you so severe against your proselytes reading them , is it because you would not cast pearls before swine ? but still you extol the scripture above the definitions of the church : how is that possible , when you tell us , the only authority it hath , is from the churches testimony ? for the authority of it supposeth it to be acknowledged for a divine revelation , and that , you tell us , we can have no assurance of , but from your churches definition : and we had thought , that which gave credit and authority , had been greater than that which received it . there can be then little reason to take your word in a case of this nature , when your very next words give so palpable a reason to the contrary . for you suppose the scripture unable to express it self to any intent or purpose , unless your church be the interpreter . for the scripture , say you , being in many places obscure , we cannot be certain of its true sense , without the help of a living and infallible judge , to determine and declare it ; which can be no other than the present church . i answer . . your meaning is not so plain , but that it wants the interpretation of your church too . for what do you understand by the scriptures being in many places obscure ? is it only , that there are some passages which have their difficulties in them ? but what is this to the purpose , unless you could prove , that this obscurity is such as hinders it from being a rule of faith and manners ? if you prove that , you do something . the scripture we acknowledge hath its difficulties in it , but not such as hinder the great design god intended it for ; no more than the maculae which are in the sun , hinder it from giving light to the world ; or some crabbed pieces in our laws hinder them from being owned as the laws of the land. . are those places obscure or no , which speak of the churches infallibility ? at least such as you produce for it afterwards ? this is evident , that there are no places whose sense is more controverted than theirs : can these then be understood without a living and infallible judge , or no ? if they may , so as we may be certain of their true sense , then why not all others which concern the rule of faith and manners , whose sense is far less disputed than of these ? if not , then we must suppose a living and infallible judge , before we know whether there is such a one or no : for that is the thing enquired after in the meaning of these places , and you say , we cannot be certain of their sense without him , so that we must first suppose the thing to be true , and then prove it ; or else you run back again into your old labyrinth . how know you that god hath promised , there shall be such an infallible judge ? by such places ( say you ) as you produce for it . well , but the scripture being in many places obscure , how shall i be certain this is the true sense of them ? you say , because the present church is the living and infallible judge to determine and declare it . do not you herein argue like a man , that can square circles ? . in those places whose sense , you say , is so obscure , where hath god made it necessary for us to have the certain sense of them ? you can have no pretence for all this for an infallible judge , unless you could make it evident , that god hath left no mysteries in his word , but he hath left your church a key to unlock them ; and therefore , i hope , there is a clavis apocalyptica too hanging at your churches girdle . it is true indeed , your church is happily instrumental in explaining a mystery spoken of in scripture , but not much for your comfort , it is a mystery of iniquity . but in good earnest , do you think that god hath promised a living and infallible judge to make us certain of the sense of obscure places in scripture ? then two things will necessarily follow from thence . . that it must be necessary , that all those that believe this infallible judge must know the certain sense of these obscure places . . that this infallible judge must give the certain sense of these places . but then , why hath your present church so neglected her talent this way , that she hath not decided all the controversies concerning the difficiliora loca . such a commentary as this were worth inquiring after . but yet , supposing your church had done this , could we be more certain of the sense of your church , then we are now of the scriptures ? i will suppose your church so charitable , as to put so useful a thing in writing , for the general good of the world : but all writings ( you tell us ) are obscure , and want a living judge to interpret them ; and so consequently must that , and so in infinitum . but . all this while it is worth understanding , how you preferr the scripture before the church , when you make the church the living and infallible judge , to interpret the scriptures . you make the scripture a de●d letter , but your church is a living judge , you make the sense of scripture obscure , uncertain , and therefore giving occasion to all the errours in the world , but your church is infallible , to determine all controversies , and yet for all this , you preferr the scripture before the church . it is plain , you do not , in regard of evidence and certainty ; and , one would have thought , these had been the greatest excellencies of a rule of faith. do you preferr it as such before your church ? if not , you deny it the peculiar property and design of it ; and therefore whatever else you attribute to it , you are guilty of the highest disparagement of it . just as if one should commend a mathematicians square for the materials of it , or the excellency of the figures engraven on it ; but , in the mean time , tell him , it is oblique , crooked , uncertain , and he cannot draw a straight line by it : do you think he would believe you commended his square ? just so do you commend the scriptures ; and can you then imagine , that any rational man will believe , that you do preferr the scriptures before the present church ? it is next to be considered , what respect remains due to general councils , if the present church be supposed infallible . for ( say you ) though you willingly submit to them all , yet where they happen to be obscure in matters requiring determination , we seek the assistance and direction of the same living infallible rule , viz. the tradition , or the sentence of the present church . but . you say , you submit to them all : but , do you submit to them all as infallible , or no ? which you must of necessity do , or else apparently contradict your self ( which yet is no novelty for you to do ) for you spend a great deal of pains to prove general councils infallible ; and therefore i hope you own them as infallible your self . if you own them to be infallible , what need of the sentence of the present church , as to those decrees which you already acknowledge infallible . or , do you really own them no further to be infallible , than as they agree with the sentence of the present church ? and then , i pray , what doth the pretended infallibility of general councils signifie , if your church give all the authority to them ? and what consents with your church is infallible , and what doth not , is far from being so . . you say , general councils may happen to be obscure in matters requiring determination ; do you mean , in things decreed by them or not ? if not , it is no wonder if they be obscure in matters they never meddle with ; therefore , i suppose , you mean in things determined by them . then i further ask , whether these decrees of general councils , were the sentence of the present church , to those who lived in the time of those councils ? if they were , how could the sentence of the present church declare and determine the sense of what is obscure in scripture , if , notwithstanding this determination , the sentence of the church remains as obscure , as the sense of the scripture ? if it was not obscure then , but is so now , whence comes that obscurity ? the sentence of the council is supposed to be written then , that those who were not present at it might understand the decree of it ; and it is supposed we have the very same authentical decrees of councils , which they had who lived in the several ages of them . how come they then to be more obscure to us , than they were to them ? . what do you mean by matters requiring determination ? is it not enough that things be infallibly determined once , but they must be determined over again . if the former determination were infallible , what need any more ? or doth the infallibility cease as soon as the church ceaseth to be the present church , and then that which comes to be the present church , must convey an infallibility into it ; but how comes any thing which was once infallible , to lose its infallibility ? which is a thing really so obscure , that your present church would do well to help us out in it . but if , notwithstanding all your pretence of the infallibility of general councils , nothing is truly to be owned as such , but what agrees with the sentence of the present church , then we plainly see , what reverence you shew to all general councils , even as much as the present church will let you , and no more , which , supposing it never so great , is not shewed to the councils , but to your church . for , the reason of that reverence cannot be resolved into the councils , but into that church for whose sake you reverence them . and thus it evidently appears , that the cunning of this device is wholly your own , and notwithstanding these miserable shifts , you do finally resolve all authorities of the fathers , councils , and scriptures , into the authority of the present roman-church ; which was the thing to be proved . the first absurdity consequent from hence , which the arch-bishop chargeth your party with , is , that by this means they ascribe as great authority ( if not greater ) to a part of the catholick church , as to the whole , which we believe in our creed ; and which is the societie of all christians . and this is full of absurdity in nature , in reason , in all things , that any part should be of equal worth , power , credit , or authority with the whole . here you deny the consequence , which , you say , depends upon his lordships wilfully mistaken notion of the catholick church ; which he saith , is the church we believe in our creed , and is the society of all christians ; which ( you call ) a most desperate extension of the church ; because thereby ( forsooth ) it will appear , that a part is not so great as the whole , viz. that the roman-church , in her full latitude , is but a piece or parcel of the catholick church believed in our creed . is this all the desperate absurdity , which follows from his lordships answer ? i pray , shew it to have any thing tending to an absurdity in it ? and though you confidently tell us , that the roman-church , taken as comprizing all christians that are in her communion , is the sole and whole catholick church ; yet i will contentedly put the whole issue of the cause upon the proof of this one proposition , that the roman-church in its largest sense , is the sole and whole catholick church ; or that the present roman-church is a sound member of the catholick church . your evidence from ecclesiastical history , is such as i fear not to follow you in ; but , i beseech you , have a care of treading too near the apostles heels : that any were accounted catholicks meerly for their communion with the roman-church ; or that any were condemned for heresie or schism purely for their dissent from it ; prove it when you please , i shall be ready ( god willing ) to attend your motions . but it is alwaies your faculty , when a thing needs proving most , to tell us what you could have done : this , you say , you would have proved at large , if his lordship had any more than supposed the contrary : but your readers will think , that his supposition , being grounded on such a maxim of reason , as that , mentioned by him , it had been your present business to have proved it : but i commend your prudence in adjourning it ; and , i suppose , you will do it , as the court of areopagus used to do hard causes , in diem longissimum . it is apparent , the bishop speaks not of a part of the church by representation of the whole , which is an objection no body but your self would here have fancied ; and therefore your instance of a parliament is nothing to the purpose , unless you will suppose , that councils in the church do represent in such a manner as parliaments in england do ; and that their decision is obligatory in the same way as acts of parliament are : if you believe this to be good doctrine , i will be content to take the objecters place , and make the application . the next absurdity laid to your charge , is , as you summe it up , that in your doctrine concerning the infallibility of your church , your proceeding is most unreasonable , in regard you will not have recourse to texts of scripture , exposition of fathers , propriety of language , conference of places , antecedents and consequents , &c. but argue , that the doctrine of the present church of rome , is true and catholick , because she professeth it to be such , which , saith he , is to prove idem per idem . to this you answer , that as to all those helps , you use them with much more candour than protestants do : and , why so ? because of their manifold wrestings of scriptures and fathers . let the handling the controversies of this book , be the evidence between us in this case , and any indifferent reader be the judge . you tell us , you use all these helps : but to what purpose do you use them ? do you by them prove the infallibility of your church ? if not , the same absurdity lyes at your door still , of proving idem per idem . no , that you do not , you say ? but how doth it appear ? thanks to these mute persons , the good motives of credibility , which come in again at a dead lift , but do no more service than before . i pray , cure the wounds they have received already , before you rally them again , or else , i assure you , what strength they have left , they will employ it against your selves . you suppose , no doubt , your coleworts good , you give them us so often over ; but i neither like proving nor eating idem per idem . but yet we have two auxiliaries more in the field , call'd instances . the design of your first instance , is , to shew , that if your church be guilty of proving idem per idem , the apostolical church was so too . for you tell us , that a sectary might , in the apostles times , have argued against the apostolical church , by the very same method his lordship here uses against the present catholick church . for , if you ask the christians then , why they believe the whole doctrine of the apostles , to be the sole true catholick faith , their answer is , because it is agreeable to the doctrine of christ. if you ask them , how they know it to be so , they will produce the words , sentences , and works of christ , who taught it . but , if you ask a third time , by what means they are assured , that those testimonies do indeed make for them or their cause , or are really the testimonies and doctrine of christ , they will not then have recourse to those testimonies or doctrine , but their answer is , they know it to be so , because the present apostolick church doth witness it . and so by consequence prove idem per idem . thus the sectary . i know not whether your faculty be better at framing questions or answers to them ; i am sure it is extraordinary at both . is it not enough to be in a circle your selves , but you must needs bring the apostles into it too ? at least , if you may have the management of their doctrine , you would do it . the short answer to all this , is , that the ground why the christians did assent to the apostles doctrine , as true , was , because god gave sufficient evidence , that their testimony was infallible ; in such things where such infallibility was requisite . for you had told us before , that the apostles did confirm their words with signs that followed , by which signs all their hearers were bound to submit themselves unto them , and to acknowledge their words for infallible oracles of truth . was not here then sufficient ground for assent in the primitive christians , to the apostles doctrine ? not as you weakly imagine , because the doctrine of the apostles was suitable to the doctrine of christ ; for the ground why they assented to the doctrine of christ , was , because of the testimony of the apostles . and therefore , to say , they believed the doctrine of the apostles , because it was agreeable to the doctrine of christ , and then that they believed the doctrine of christ , because it was suitable to the testimony of the apostles , is a circle fit for none but your self , and that silly person of your own moulding , whom you call the sectary . it were worth considering too , how the works of christ could prove the doctrine of the apostles suitable to his own . i had thought christs works had proved his own testimony to be true , and not the apostles doctrine to be consonant to his : the works of christ shew us the reason , why he was to be believed in what he delivered ; and did not the works of the apostles do so too ? what need then any rational person enquire further , why the apostles doctrine was to be believed ? was it not on the same account that the doctrine of christ was to be believed ? but , say you , how should you know their doctrine was the same . what , do you want an infallible testimony for this too ? or , do you believe that god can contradict himself ; or that christ should send such to deliver his doctrine to the world , and attest it with miracles who should falsifie and corrupt it ? now , you will say , i am come over to you , and answer as you do , that the apostles testimony was to be believed , because of the pregnant and convincing motives of credibility . this , i grant ; but must be excused as to what follows , that these same motives moved the primitive christians , and us , in our respective times , to believe the church . prove but that , and i yield the cause . but till then , i pray , give us leave to believe that still you prove idem per idem ; and your answers are like your proofs ; for this we have had often already , and have sufficiently examined before : as likewise your other coccysm about the formal object of faith , and certain inducements to accept the churches infallibility ; which i shall not think worth repeating , till you think what i have said against it before , worth answering . your second instance is , ad hominem ; whereby you would prove , that if he acknowledge the church infallible in fundamentals , he must prove idem per idem , as much as you do . for ( say you ) if he be demanded a reason why he believes such points as he calls fundamental , his answer is , because they are agreeable to the doctrine of christ. if he be asked , how he knows them to be so , he will , no doubt , produce the words , sentences and works of christ , who taught the said fundamental points . but , if he be asked a third time , by what means he is assured , that these testimonies do make for him , then he will not have recourse to the words themselves , i. e. to the bible , but his final answer will be , he knows them to be so , and that they do make for him , because the present church doth infallibly witness so much from tradition , and according to tradition , which is ( say you ) to prove idem per idem , as much as we . things are not alwaies just as you would have them : if we allow you to make both objections and answers for us , no doubt you are guilty of no absurdity so great , but we shall be equally guilty of it . but , it is the nature both of your religion and arguments not to be able to stand a tryal : but however , they must undergo it . i say then , that granting the church infallible in the belief of fundamentals , it doth not follow that we must prove idem per idem , as you do . for , when we ask you , why you believe your doctrine to be the sole catholick faith , your final answer is , because your church is infallible ; which is answering by the very thing in question , for you have no other way to judge of the catholick faith , but by the infallibility of your church ; but when you ask us , why we believe such an article to be fundamental ; as for instance , that christ will give eternal life to them that obey him , we answer , not because the church , which is infallible in fundamentals , delivers it to be so , which were answering idem per idem ; but we appeal to that common reason which is in mankind , whether , if the doctrine of christ be true , this can be other than a fundamental article of it ; it being that , without which the whole design of christian religion comes to nothing . therefore you much mistake , when you think we resolve our faith of fundamentals into the church as the infallible witness of them ; for , though the church may be infallible in the belief of all things fundamental ( for otherwise it were not a church , if it did not believe them ) it doth not thence necessarily follow , that the church must infallibly witness what is fundamental , and what not . it is sufficient that the church doth deliver from the consent of universal tradition , that infallible rule of faith ( which , to be sure , contains all things fundamental in it ) though she never meddle with the deciding what points are fundamental , and what not . if you therefore ask me , why i believe any point supposed fundamental , i answer , by all the evidence which assures me , that the doctrine containing that point , is of divine revelation ; if you aske me , how i know that this point is part of that doctrine , i appeal to the common sense and reason of the world , as to things plainly fundamental , and therefore by this means your third question is prevented , how i know this to be the meaning of those words ; for , i suppose , no one that can tell , that two and two make four , can question but if the doctrine of christ be true , the belief of it is necessary to salvation , which is it we mean by fundamental . either therefore prove it necessary , that the church must infallibly witness what is fundamental , and what not ; and that we must rely on such a testimony in the belief of fundamentals , or you prove nothing at all to your purpose , no more than your convincing motives of credibility , which , were they made into a grand sallad , would know the way to the table , they are served so often up : but , i have found them so dry , and insipid already , i have no encouragement to venture on them any more . but , still you are deservedly afraid we should not think worthily enough of your churches infallibility . you therefore tell us very wisely , that this infallibility is not a thing , that is not infallible ; for , say you , which infallibility must come from the holy ghost , and be more than humane or moral , and therefore must be truly supernatural , &c. it is well you tell us of such a rare distinction of infallibility ; for else , i assure you , we had never thought of it , viz. of an infallibility that may be deceived , and an infallibility that cannot be deceived , or , in your words , a humane and moral infallibility , and a supernatural divine infallibility . to ease you therefore of your fears , i solemnly promise you , that when i believe your church infallible , i will not believe it to have a humane , moral infallibility , but supernatural and divine . that is , when i believe her infallible , i believe her infallible . your mind being eased of this grand fear , you think all the difficulty is over , and that you are out of any possibility of a circle ; but , i have endeavoured before to shew , you are not infallible in that : for the charge you exhibit against the bishop , as though you had left him tumbling in the circle you had so easily got out of ; i shall consider it in its due time and place ; but , if one may guess at being in a circle by tumbling , you will not seem very free from it , who seem to be at very little ease by your impatience of being held to the subject in hand . well , but yet our conceptions must once more be rectified as to the nature of this infallibility ; before our danger was least , we should have believed it to be only a humane , moral , and not supernatural infallibility , and now we are bid have a care lest we think it to be any more , than in a sort , and in some manner divine . but , what kind of transcendental thing is this infallibility ? it is not humane , nor yet divine , and yet it is supernatural ; which is scarce in some sort , or in a manner sense . how comes it to be supernatural , if it be not divine ? or , is it naturally supernatural , and humanely divine ? it must not then be called divine , but , in a manner , and after a sort : but yet ( say you ) so far as concerns precise infallibility , or certain connexion with truth , it is so truly supernatural and certain , that in this respect it yields nothing to the scripture it self . these are your own words : and if you did not believe transubstantiation , i should think this the greatest non-sense in the world . but , what doth that infallibility which is more than in a sort divine , import beyond what you assert doth belong to the church ? is that any more than precise infallibility , and certain connexion with truth , and such as is in the scripture , and all this your church hath , and yet , when we say so , she drops a court●sie , and cryes , no , forsooth , though she be infallible , yet she desires to be excused , she is not infallible , but only as if one should say in a manner , and after a sort , and so forth . just as if one should ask a new married woman , whether she were certainly married to such a man , and she should answer as to what concerns marrying , she was certainly married , but yet she was not absolutely married , but only in a manner , and after a sort . this is so great a mystery , you will oblige the world much to inform it a little more fully in these following questions , what kind of infallibility that is , which is supernatural , and by the assistance of the holy ghost , which is equal to the scripture it self in point of certainty and infallibility ( your own words ) and yet is divine , but in a manner , and after a sort : and what way we should come to understand that manner and sort , and what degrees and sorts there are in infallibility ? whether any thing , so far as it is infallible , be not absolutely , as well as precisely infallible ; and whether that which is but in a sort divine , be not in a sort not divine ; whether that which is in a sort not divine , be not likewise in the same sort not infallible ( since all this infallibility , by your own confession , is from the holy ghost ) and whether this be not an excellent way in a manner , and after a sort , to reconcile contradictions . for , if a man should ask you , whether one might be , and not be , at the same time ; you might easily tell him , that absolutely and precisely he cannot be , and not be ; but in a manner , and after a sort , he may be , and not be , together . you have cause therefore to make much of this distinction , and you never need fear baffling , as long as you carry it about with you ; it is a most excellent preservative against all the batteries of sense and reason . but lest yet , for all this , we should apprehend something by this in a manner , and after a sort , as though they were some odd diminishing terms : you tell us , no ; catholick divines , by this manner of speaking , do not intend to deny the church to be equal even to scripture it self in point of certainty and infallibility . what is now become of our manner and sort , when the church dares justle with the scripture for the upper hand , at least for an equal place as to infallibility ? what then is the intent of this distinction ? it is to shew the prerogatives of scripture above the definitions of the church . this doth well however to follow the rest , it comes so near to a contradiction , for if the church be equal to scripture in point of certainty and infallibility , what prerogative can be left to the scripture above the church ? when that which makes it scripture , and the rule of faith is only its certainty and infallibility ? yes , you tell us , the scripture doth much exceed the church in regard of its larger extent of truth : because there not only every reason , but every word and tittle is matter of faith ; but in the definitions of the church , neither the arguments , reasons , nor words , are absolutely speaking matters of faith , but only the thing declared to be such . excellent good still , and all of a piece ! i commend you , that you would not offer to mix any thing of sense in so good a discourse : for . how comes the scripture to have a larger extent of truth , than the church , if we cannot know what truth is in the scripture , but from the church ? . how every word and tittle comes to be matter of faith in scripture , and not in the church , when you say , the church is equal to the scripture in point of certainty and infallibility ? . how any word and tittle can be any where a matter of faith ? i had thought , it had been the sense and thing understood by those words , had been matters of faith ; and then it is all one with the scripture and church , for you say , as to the church , the thing declared is a matter of faith ? . what that thing is , which is declared by the church , which is neither arguments , reasons nor words ; and if it doth consist of these , how one can be believed , and not the other : doth your church declare things so nakedly as to do it without arguments , reasons or words ? that she can do it without words , it is hard to believe , but very easie , that she can do it without arguments or reasons . . are men bound to believe what she so declares , without arguments and reasons too ? if they be , shew whence that obligation comes ; and when you attempt that , you endeavour to shew some argument and reason why they should believe it . . what do you mean , that these arguments , reasons and words , are not absolutely speaking matters of faith , it should seem then , that conditionally they may be so , and then shew the difference between them , and those in scripture . . how is it possible for us to assent to any thing as a matter of faith , if we do not first assent to the arguments , reasons and words , by which you would perswade us to believe the thing to be declared by the church , and what is declared by the church is true . . whether , when you say , that in the scripture every word and tittle is matter of faith , at least implicitely , and necessarily to be believed by all that knew it to be a part of scripture ; this will not equally hold as to the church too , that every word and tittle , is matter of faith , at least implicitely to all that know it to be a part of the churches definition ? and where then lyes the prerogative of scripture above the church ? besides , you tell us , the church hath certain limits , and can define nothing , but what was either revealed before , or hath such connexion with it , as it may be rationally and logically deduced from it , as appertaining to the declaration and defence of that which was before revealed . that herein you consult much for the honour of the scripture above the church , will appear when you have answered these queries . . when the belief and sense of scripture depend according to you , upon the churches testimony , whether hath more limits , the church or scripture ? for , whatever is in scripture , must as to us ha●e its authority from the church ; and therefore your church sets what bounds she please as to things revealed in scripture . . who shall be judge , whether your church define nothing but what was revealed before , when , according to you , we can have no assurance as to any divine revelation , but from the judgement of your church ? . when your church defines things to be matters of faith , which we think are not only not logically and rationally deduced from scripture , but plainly repugnant to it . how can we believe that she doth not pretend to reveal something which was not revealed before ? . is that rational and logical deduction from scripture sufficient to perswade any rational man or no ? if not , why use you those terms ? if it be , what need your churches definition , in a thing that is obvious to any ones reason ? . must we believe your church absolutely , as to what is rationally and logically deduced from scripture ? if so , then , when she declares her own infallibility , we must believe that to be rationally deduced , because she declares it . . doth your church make use of logick and reason in her deductions ? then , why may not every one else , unless she hath only the gift of logick and reason , which , i suppose , you will say , is but in a manner , and after a sort . moreover , say you , the church hath the receiving and interpreting scripture for its end ; and consequently is in that respect inferiour to it . but , for whose end do you mean ? the churches , or the scriptures end ? if the latter ; shew us how any end of scripture is attained by your churches interpretation ; if you mean the churches end , i verily believe you ; that your church pretends to the receiving and interpreting scripture for her own ends , and consequently , in that respect , she makes the scripture inferiour to her . here again we meet with another piece of your errantry , in attempting to vindicate your doctrine from the enchantment of another contradiction . you say , you hold it necessary , that we are to believe the scriptures to be the word of god upon divine authority ; and yet , you tell us ▪ that the churches authority , on which we are to believe the scriptures is but in some sort , and after a manner divine . this seems to have a huge resemblance to a contradiction ; or else you must say , that it is not necessary that we believe the scriptures on a simply divine authority , but only on such a one as is in some sort , and after a manner divine : for , if you make the same authoririty to be divine absolutely in your pretence , and only after a sort in your application you reach not the thing you promised . if there be not , as you say , any necessity of defending the churches authority to be simply divine , in answering that question , how we know scripture to be scripture , then there can be no necessity of asserting , that we are bound to believe the scriptures to be the word of god upon divine authority ? which yet is your assertion before ; but yet you would fain distinguish between ▪ that which is absolutely infallible and divine , the churches authority ( you say ) must be the former , but cannot be the latter ; when yet this infallibility is , as you again tell us , by the promised assistance of the holy ghost . these are fit hedges to keep in cuckows , but none else . but , as you are still off and on , sometimes seeming to go forward , and then stepping back again ; sometimes answering , sometimes proving , which are great arguments of a disturbed mind , or a being in a labyrinth , which you take many steps in , but can find no way out of , lest you should seem not sufficiently to contradict your self : you go about to prove , that the authority , teaching scripture to be the word of god , must be absolutely infallible ; if you prove that , i will undertake to prove it must be simply divine : but , let us see however , how irrefragably you prove it . and the immediate reason , why the authority teaching scripture to be the word of god , must be absolutely infallible , is , because it is an article of christian faith , that all those books which the church hath defined for canonical scripture , are the word of god ; and seeing every article of faith must be revealed , or taught by divine authority , this also must be revealed , and consequently no authority less than divine , is sufficient to move us to believe it as an article of faith. but . is it not possible for you to utter so many words without a contradiction ? were you not just before distinguishing that authority which is divine , from that which is absolutely infallible ; and but in a manner , and after a sort divine ? and yet here , that authority which you call absolutely infallible , in the former part of your argument ; in the last you explain it , no authority less than divine ; doth it not then follow , that an authority absolutely infallible , is an authority no less than divine . but to let that pass among the rest of his brethren . . why take you this needless pains to prove that which you say before , you and your adversary are agreed in . . supposing you should meet with some who should question this , as it is probable you may do before we part ; i think it no difficult thing to answer this argument of yours , which , in short , is , every article of faith must be believed upon divine authority , but that the scriptures are the word of god , is an article of faith. to which i answer , if by an article of faith , you mean , that we must give an undoubted assent to , then i grant , that this is an article of faith , but deny , that every such article must be believed upon divine authority ; if by an article of faith you mean something to be believed upon divine testimony , then i grant , that every such article must be built on divine authority , but shall desire you to prove , that that faith whereby i believe scripture to be scripture , must be built on a divine testimony . for , i cannot see , how any , who say so , can free themselves from a circle : and of all persons , you have the least reason to say so ; for you deny the churches testimony to be properly divine , and withall the argument is very easily retorted upon your self . for , say you , whatsoever is an article of faith , must be believed on divine authority , but that the church is infallible , i suppose , to you is an article of faith : name therefore what divine authority the belief of that is built upon ? but , do not you say , the belief of that is built on the motives of credibility , and , i suppose , you distinguish them from divine authority , or else they can do you no service for avoiding the circle : either therefore deny that your churches infallibility is an article of faith , or else deny it to be necessary , that every article of faith , must be built on divine authority , and then farewell your old friends the motives of credibility ; or else , you see , how necessary it is for you , if you will vindicate your self from contradiction , to answer this argument , and when you have done so , you will believe i did not much dread the force of it . the rest of that paragraph , is a bare repetition , the fourth or fifth time of your distinction about the formal object of faith , and the infallible assurance of it , which is a thing in it self so incongruous , and unreasonable , that i had thoughts mean enough of you , when i met with it first ; but have much meaner , now i meet with it so often , for i see , as pitiful a shift as it is , you have no other to make use of on all occasions . his lordship goes on to prove that , since it is confessed between him and his adversary , that we must be able to prove the scriptures to be the word of god , by some authority that is absolutely divine ; this authority cannot be that of the church . for the church consists of men subject to errour ; and all the parts being all liable to mistaking , and fallible , the whole cannot possibly be infallible in and of it self , and priviledged from being deceived in some things or other . to this you answer , his lordship's argument ( that the whole may erre , because every part may erre ) is disproved by himself ; because in fundamentals he grants the whole church cannot erre , and yet that any particular man may erre even in those points . but , is it not plain , that his lordship's design is to prove , that if all the parts are fallible , the authority of the whole cannot be simply divine ; and therefore he saith himself , that in fundamentals , in which the vniversal church cannot erre , her authority is not divine , because the church is tyed to the use of means . you must therefore prove , that when every part is acknowledged fallible , the authority of the whole in propounding any thing to be believed , can be infallible in and of it self : i cannot therefore understand , how the perfection of infallibility in the proposition of any object to be believed , can be applied to the whole church , when every particular member of it in such a proposition is supposed to be fallible . the arch-bishop therefore tells you , that there is special immediate revelation requisite to the very least degree of divine authority ; to avoid which , you would fain prove , that there may be absolute infallibility , without divine authority , and immediate assistance of the holy ghost , in delivering objects of faith , without immediate revelation . you tell us therefore , though the church use means , yet she receives not her infallibility from them , but from the assistance of the holy ghost , which makes her definitions truly infallible , though they be not new revelations . but , how do you prove , that any thing but an immediate divine revelation , can make such a divine testimony which is supposed necessary for the belief of scripture to be scripture ? how can you make it appear , that there can be infallibility in the conclusion , where there was not infallibility in judging of the truth of the premises ? you say , by the assistance of the holy ghost . but why should you not believe such an assiance in the one , as well as the other ? if therefore you assert , that the spirit of god doth not assist infallibly in the use of the means , but only in the conclusion , then it must be an immediate revelation ; for what else it should be , is not intelligible . for , i had thought the revelation had been immediate , when somewhat more was discovered than all use of means could attain to : therefore the churches infallibility must be a meer enthusiasm . no , say you , because it only declares what was formerly revealed . though that be a question among some of your selves ; yet , supposing it to be so , it clears not the business . for , suppose that god had supernaturally assisted the vnderstanding of any prophet in declaring a prophecy which had been revealed before , would not this have been as immediate a revelation to that prophet , as if it had been a new prophecy : and the case is the same here ; for , though you say , the material objects of faith be revealed before , yet we cannot know the formal object of faith , without your churches declaration , so that on your principles there cannot lye an obligation to faith on us , without your churches definition ; and therefore that is as necessary to us , as immediate revelation ; and to the church it self , when you say , the infallibility proceeds so immediately from god , that if the church should fall into errour , that would be ascribed to god as much as in case of divine revelation , what difference can you make between them ? for , it is not , whether the object be new or old , which makes an immediate revelation ; but the immediate impression of it on the understanding ? for if the spirit of god doth immediately discover to any one , a thing knowable by natural causes , is it any thing the less an immediate divine revelation ? so it must be in things already revealed , if the same things be discovered in an immediate infallible manner to the mind of any , the revelation is as immediate as if they had never been revealed before . your last paragraph affords us still more evidence of your self-contradicting faculty ; for which we need no more than lay your words together . your words next before were , if the church should fall into errour , it would be as much ascribed to god himself , as in case of immediate divine revelation ; but here you add ; neither is it necessary for us to affirm , that the definition of the church , is god's immediate revelation ; as , if the definition were false , god's revelation must be also such : it is enough for us to averr , that god's promise would be infringed , as truly it would in that supposition . from which we may learn very useful instructions . . that god's promise may he infringed , and yet god's revelation not proved to be false : but whence came that promise ? was it not a divine revelation ? if it was undoubtedly such , can such a promise be false , and not god's revelation ? . that though if the church erre , god must be fallible , yet for all this , all god's revelations may remain infallible . . that though the only ground of infallibility be the immediate assistance of the holy ghost , which gives as great an infallibility , as ever was in prophets and apostles ; yet we must not say , that such an infallibility doth suppose an immediate revelation . . that though god's veracity would be destroyed , if the church should define any thing for a point of catholick faith , which were not revealed from god , which are your next words ; yet we are not to think , if her definition be false , god's revelation must be also such , which are your words foregoing . those are excellent corollaries to conclude so profound a discourse with . and , if the bishop ( as you say ) had little reason to accuse you for maintaining a party ; i am sure , i have less to admire you , for your seeking truth ; and what ever animosity you are led by , i hope i have made it evident , you are led by very little reason . chap. vi. of the infallibility of tradition . of the unwritten word , and the necessary ingredients of it . the instances for it particularly examined and disproved . the fathers rule for examining traditions . no unwritten word the foundation of divine faith. in what sense faith may be said to be divine . of tradition being known by its own light , and the canon of the scripture . the testimony of the spirit , how far pertinent to this controversie . of the use of reason in the resolution of faith. t. c ' s. dialogue answered , with another between himself and a sceptick . a twofold resolution of faith into the doctrine , and into the books . several objections answered from the supposition made of a child brought up without sight of scripture . christ no ignoramus nor impostor though the church be not infallible . t. c ' s. blasphemy in saying otherwise . the testimonies of irenaeus and s. augustin examined and retorted . of the nature of infallible certainty , as to the canon of scripture ; and whereon it is grounded . the testimonies produced by his lordship vindicated . you begin this chapter with as much confidence , as if you had spoken nothing but oracles in the foregoing . whether the bishop or you were more hardly put to it , let any indifferent reader judge : if he did , as you say , tread on the brink of a circle ; we have made it appear , notwithstanding all your evasions , that you are left in the middle of it . the reason of his falling on the unwritten word , is not his fear of stooping to the church , to shew it him , and finally depend on her authority ; but to shew the unreasonableness of your proceedings , who talk much of an unwritten word , and are not able to prove any such thing . if he will not believe any unwritten word , but what is shewn him delivered by the prophets and apostles , i think he hath a great deal of reason for such incredulity , unless you could shew him some assurance of any unwritten word , that did not come from the apostles . though he desired not to read unwritten words in their books , which is a wise question you ask ; yet he reasonably requested some certain evidence of what you pretend to be so , that he might not have so big a faith as to swallow into his belief , that every thing which his adversary saies is the unwritten word , is so indeed . if it be not your desire he should , we have the greater hopes of satisfaction from you ; but if you crave the indifferent reader 's patience , till he hear reason from you , i am afraid his patience will be tyred , before you come to it . but , whatever it is , it must be examined . though your discourse concerning this unwritten word , be as the rest are , very confused and immethodical , yet i conceive the design and substance of it lyes in these particulars , as will appear in the examination of them . . that there is an unwritten word , which must be believed by us , containing such doctrinal traditions , as are warranted by the church for apostolical . . that the ground of believing this unwritten word , is from the infallibility of the church , which defines it to be so . . that our belief of the scriptures must be grounded on such an unwritten word , which is warranted by the church : under each of these i shall examine faithfully what belongs to them in your indigested discourse . the first of these is taken from your own words ; where you tell us , that our ensurancer in the main principle of faith concerning the scriptures being the word of god , is apostolical tradition ; and well may it be so , for such tradition declared by the church , is the unwritten word of god. and you after tell us , that every doctrine , which any particular person may please to call tradition , is not therefore to be received as god's unwritten word , but such doctrinal traditions only , as are warranted to us by the church for truly apostolical , which are consequently god's unwritten word . so that these three things are necessary ingredients of this unwritten word . . that it must be originally apostolical , and not only so , but it must be of divine revelation to the apostles too . for otherwise it cannot be god's word at all , and therefore not his unwritten word . i quarrel not at all with you for speaking of an unwritten word , if you could prove it ; for it is evident to me , that god's word is no more so , by being written or printed , than if it were not so : for the writing adds no authority to the word , but only is a more certain means of conveying it to us . it is therefore god's word , as it proceeds from him ; and that which is now his written word , was once his unwritten word : but however , whatever is god's word , must come from him , and since you derive the source of the unwritten word from the apostles , whatever you call an unwritten word , you must be sure to derive its pedegree down from them . so that insisting on that point of time , when this was declared and owned for an unwritten word , you must be able to shew , that it came from the apostles , otherwise it cannot be owned as an apostolical tradition . . that what you call an unwritten word , must be something doctrinal ; so you call them your self doctrinal traditions , i. e. such as contain in them somewhat dogmatical or necessary to be believed by us : and thence it was , this controversie rose from the dispute concerning the sufficiency of the scriptures , as a rule of faith , whether that contained all god's word , or all matters to be believed or no ; or , whether there were not some objects of faith , which were never written , but conveyed by tradition ? . that what is thus doctrinal , must be declared by the church to be an apostolical tradition ; which you in terms assert . according then to these rules we come to examine the evidences by you produced for such an unwritten word . for which , you first produce several instances out of s. austin , of such things which were in his time judged to be such , i. e. doctrinal traditions derived from the apostles , and have ever since been conserved and esteemed such in the whole church of christ. the first you instance in , is that we now treat , that scripture is the word of god , for which you propose the known place wherein he affirms he should not believe the gospel , but for the authority of the church moving him thereto . but this proves nothing to your purpose , unless you make it appear , that the authority of the church could not move him to believe the gospel , unless that authority be supposed to be an unwritten word . for , i will suppose , that s. austin , or any other rational man might be sufficiently induced to believe the gospel , on the account of the churches authority , not as delivering any doctrinal tradition in the nature of an unwritten word , but as attesting that vniversal tradition , which had been among all christians concerning it . which universal tradition is nothing else but a conveying down to us the judgement of sense and reason in the present case . for the primitive christians being best able to judge as to what authentick writings came from the apostles , not by any unwritten word , but by the use of all moral means , it cannot reasonably be supposed , that the successive christians should imbezzle these authentick records , and substitute others in the place of them . when therefore manichaeus pretended the authenticalness of some other writings , besides those then owned by the church , s. austin did no more than any reasonable man would do in the like case , viz. appeal to the vniversal tradition of the catholick church ; upon the account of which , he saies , he was induced to believe the gospel it self , i. e. not so much the doctrine , as the books containing it . but of this more largely elsewhere . i can hardly excuse you from a falsification of s. austin's meaning , in the ensuing words , which you thus render : if any clear testimony were brought out of scripture against the church , he would neither believe the scripture , nor the church ; whereas it appears by the words cited in your own margin , his meaning is only this , if you can find ( saith he ) something very plain in the gospel concerning the apostleship of manichaeus , you will thereby weaken the authority of those catholicks , who bid me , that i should not believe you ; whose authority being weakned , neither can i believe the gospel , because , through them , i believed it . is here any like what you said , or at least would seem to have apprehended to be his meaning ? which is plainly this . if against the consent of all those copies which the catholick christians received , those copies should be found truer , which have in them something of the apostleship of manichaeus ; this must needs weaken much the authority of the catholick church in its tradition , whom he adhered to against the manichees ; and their authority being thus weakned , his faith , as to the scriptures delivered by them , must needs be much weakned too . to give you an instance of a like nature ; the mahumetans pretend , that in the scripture there was anciently express mention of their prophet mahomet , but that the christians , out of hatred of their religion , have erased all those places which spake of him : suppose now , a christian should say , if he should find in the gospel express mention of mahomet's being a prophet , it would much weaken the authority of the whole christian church ; which being so weakned , it must of necessity weaken the faith of all those who have believed our present copies authentick , upon the account of the christian churches authority . is not this plainly the case s. austin speaks of ; and , is it any more than any man's reason will tell him ? not that the churches authority is to be relyed on as judicially or infallibly , but as rationally , delivering such an universal tradition to us . and , might not s. austin , on the same reason , as well believe the acts of the apostles as the gospel , when they were both equally delivered by the same universal tradition ? what you have gained then to your purpose from these three citations out of s. austin , in your first instance , i cannot easily imagine . your second tradition is , that the father is not begotten of any other person . s. austin's words are , sicut patrem in illis libris nusquam ingenitum legimus , & tamen dicendum esse defenditur . we never read in the scriptures , that the father is unbegotten ; and yet it is defended , that we must say so . and had they not good reason with them to say so , who believed that he was the father by way of exclusion of such a kind of generation as the eternal son of god is supposed to have ? but , must this be an instance of a doctrinal tradition , containing some object of faith distinct from scripture ? could any one , whoever believed the doctrine of the trinity as revealed in scripture , believe or imagine any other ? that though it be not in express terms set down in scripture , yet no one that hath any conceptions of the father , but this is implied in them . if it be therefore a tradition , because it is not expresly in scripture , why may not trinity , hypostasis , person , consubstantiality , be all unwritten traditions , as well as this ? you will say , because , though the words be not there , yet the sense is : and i pray , take the same answer for this of the father's being unbegotten , your third is , of the perpetual virginity of the virgin mary : this indeed , s. austin saith , is to be believed fide integra , but he saith not , divinâ ; but , do you therefore make this a doctrinal tradition , and an unwritten word ? if you make it a doctrinal tradition , you must shew us , what article of faith is contained in it ; that it was not looked on as an unwritten word , will appear by the disputations of those fathers , who writ most eagerly about it , who make it their design to prove it out of scripture . those who did most zealously appear against the opinion of helvidius , were s. hierom , and s. ambrose , of the latin church , s. austin only mentions it in the places by you cited : of the greek church epiphanius , and s. basil. and yet every one of these contends to have it proved out of scripture . s. hierom enters his dispute against helvidius upon those terms of confuting him out of scripture ; and towards the conclusion of that discourse , see what a friend s. hierom is to doctrinal traditions . as , saith he , we deny not the things which are written , so we embrace not the things which are not written . we believe the incarnation , because we read it ; we believe not the marriage of mary after her delivery , because we read it not . st. ambrose , in his epistle to theophilus and anysius , where he first mentions this opinion , argues against it wholly from the testimony of scripture ; and the unreasonableness of the thing . to the same purpose epiphanius discourseth of this subject , whose utmost arguments are only probabilities ; whether the antidicomariani were the same with helvidians , as s. austin supposeth : or , whether they were the disciples of apollinarius , who broached the same doctrine in the east , at the time helvidius did in the west , as others suppose is not material to our purpose ; but this latter seems to be the opinion of epiphanius : who in his epistle , written in confutation of that opinion , chargeth the first authours of it with great ignorance of the scriptures , and urgeth many places to prove the perpetual virginity of the virgin mary ; and therefore did not look on it as an unwritten word . st. basil , in his discourse concerning the humane generation of christ , falls upon this subject , and goes about to prove it from the importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which ( saith he ) although it seems to speak some circumscription of time , yet it really denotes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an indefinite time , as in that , i will be with you alwaies to the end of the world . but he ushers in this discourse with this remarkable expression ; although this be no hinderance to the doctrine of piety ; for till the oeconomy of her delivery was accomplished , her virginity was necessary ; but what became of it afterwards is not pertinent to this mystery : however , because the ears of those who love christ , will hardly entertain this , that mary ceased to be a virgin , we suppose these proofs sufficient for it . judge then , whether s. basil did believe this to be a doctrine of faith , or an unwritten word . this testimony fronto ducaeus , is much troubled with , and would go about to prove this to be an article of faith , from the councils of constantinople and the lateran ; in the first of which she is only called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but doth that note it to be an article of faith ? as for his evasion of this testimony , it is so impertinent , that i shall not repeat it , although he voucheth vasquez for the authour of it . it cannot be denied , but that afterwards s. basil produceth a tradition for it concerning zachary's placing the virgin mary , after her delivery , among the virgins , for which he was slain of the jews , between the temple and the altar . but , we may guess at the credit of this tradition , by what s. hierom saith of it , that it came ex apocryphorum somniis and withall , gives a sufficient lash at all traditions , by reason of this in the next words . hoc quia de scripturis non habet auctoritatem , eâdem facilitate contemnitur , quâ probatur . which having no authority from the scriptures , it is as easily contemned as produced . and , think you not then , that s. hierom was a great friend to your doctrinal traditions , and unwritten word ? but , say you still , the virginity of mary must be an article of faith , because , those who denied it are called hereticks ; and s. augustine calls helvidius his opinion , blasphemy . but , though helvidius be listed among the hereticks , yet , i suppose , you will not say that all who are listed in those catalogues are defined to be hereticks by the catholick church ? it is very apparent , that any one who seemed to broach any new fancies , and thereby disturbed the churches peace , were called hereticks by them . and vasquez confesseth that aquinas calls it an errour , and not an heresie in helvidius . if it were so , he was not the first authour of it ; for , tertullian is not only cited by helvidius for it , and s. hierom casts away his testimony , as of a man out of the church , but vasquez confesseth he delivers it so often , that pamelius could make no antidote for those places . one would therefore think , that one so near the apostles as tertullian was , might easily have learned such a tradition , and so great a friend to virginity as he was ( while a montanist ) should not have been apt to believe the contrary . that which was accounted blasphemy in helvidius , was the rashness of his assertion , which seemed dishonourable to the blessed virgin , and not as though he did thereby overthrow any article of faith. for the other part of your tradition , that she was a virgin in the birth of christ , you will find it a greater difficulty to make it out to have been believed as a tradition , much less as an unwritten word . for not only tertullian , but ignatius , irenaeus , origen , epiphanius , ambrose , theophylact oppose you in it ; and judge you then , whether this were owned as a constant tradition or no. but it is not worth while to insist upon it . your fourth instance is , concerning the rebaptization of hereticks . concerning which , two things are to be considered , the custome it self , and the right and law on which that custome was grounded . in the places by you cited out of s. austin , it is plain , he speaks of the custome and practice of the church , which ( saith he ) did not use the iteration of baptism , which custome , he believed , did come from apostolical tradition ; as many other things which are not found in the writings of the apostles , nor in following councils , yet because they are observed by the vniversal church , are believed to be delivered , and commended by them . to the same purpose is the other testimony . but what is this to doctrinal traditions , concerning matters of faith ? that there were many ecclesiastical customes observed in the church as apostolical traditions , i deny not , but that is not our present question . if you therefore enquire into that which is only doctrinal in this case concerning the right and lawfulness of practice in this case , that he fixeth wholly upon the scriptures . the practice of the church in admitting hereticks without baptizing them again , might be known by tradition , but whether the church did well or ill in it , must be by s. austin's own confession determined out of scripture . and in that latter place by you cited , there is mentioned no such thing as an unwritten word , or that the apostles had left any command that hereticks should not be baptized again . nihil quidem exinde praeceperunt apostoli , are his own words ; there being then neither written nor unwritten word for it , s. austin takes the likeliest course he could think of , which was , from the custome of the church , to judge most probably what was most agreeable to the apostles minds . but still , when he comes to urge most home against the donatists , he makes his recourse to the scriptures . and offers to prove the matter in dispute from them , and would have all tryed by the ballance of the lord. and expresly saith , it is against the lords command , that those who have had lawful baptism already , should be rebaptized . so that we see , s. augustine did not himself think it a sufficient proof of apostolical tradition , that it was a custome of the church , unless he did likewise produce certain evidence out of scripture for the confirmation of it . neither then will your fourth instance prove what it was brought for . your fifth concerning infants baptism , you have given us occasion to consider largely already ; your sixth depends upon that ; your seventh is only a rite of the church . to your eighth i answer , though the tradition of the church be a great confirmation of the apostolical practice in observation of the lords day , yet that very practice , and the ground of it , are sufficiently deduced from scripture . among all these instances therefore , we are yet to seek for such a doctrinal tradition , as makes an unwritten word . but , methinks an authour , who would seem so much versed in s. augustine , might , among all these instances , have found out one more , which would have looked more like a doctrinal tradition , than most of these , which is , the necessity of the eucharist to baptized infants : the places are so many , and so express in him concerning it , that it would be a needless task to produce them . i shall only therefore referr you to your espencaeus , who hath made some collection of them . when you have viewed them , i pray bethink your self of some convenient answer to them , which either must be by asserting , that s. augustine might be deceived in judging of doctrinal and apostolical traditions ; and then to what purpose are your eight instances out of him ? or else that might be accounted an apostolical tradition in one age , which may not in another ; and then , since , according to your judgement , the present church is infallible in every age , that was infallibly an apostolical tradition in one age , which infallibly is not so in another . which leaves us in a greater dispute than ever , what these apostolical traditions are , when the church in several ages doth so much differ concerning them . after you have , in your way , attempted to prove such unwritten words , or doctrinal traditions , you fall upon a high charge against his lordship , and not without a severe reflection on all protestants , in these words . it is so natural to protestants to build upon false grounds , that they cannot enter into a question , without supposing a falshood ; so his lordship here feeds his humour , and obtrudes many . it is well yet , his lordship meets with no worse entertainment than all protestants do : you think all protestants still build upon false grounds , because not super hanc petram , and that they still suppose falshoods , because they suppose your church fallible , whether she undertakes to explain written , or define unwritten words . but , whether his lordship feeds his humour in obtruding falshoods , or you yours in calumniating , will appear upon examination . you say , he makes bellarmine , and all catholick doctors , maintain , that whatever they please to call tradition , must presently be received by all as god's unwritten word . upon which you go about to vindicate bellarmine , by repeating his distinctions concerning traditions , viz. that some are divine , others apostolical , and others ecclesiastical , and that some belong to faith , others to manners . but all this doth not serve your turn . for . his lordship doth not deny , that bellarmine useth these distinctions , but reduceth all these several traditions under the same common title de verbo dei non scripto ; and that his design therein , is to impose upon unwary readers , that all the traditions mentioned by him , are god's unwritten word . upon which , his lordship had good reason to go about to undeceive them , and to make it appear so evidently as he hath done , that tradition , and god's unwritten word , are not convertible terms ; both because there may be justly supposed to have been many unwritten words , which were never delivered over to the church ; and that there are many things which go for traditions in your church , which have no shadow of pretence from an unwritten word . . there may be yet further cunning in all this ; for , although bellarmine and you distinguish of traditions , divine , apostolical , and ecclesiastical ; yet when you come to put the difference between these , i suppose you would not leave it to every particular person , to judge which of these traditions is of these several natures , but the church must be judge of them . so that a tradition is ecclesiastical , when your church will have it so , that is , when it is disused among you , as the three dippings in baptism , the participation of eucharists by infants , &c. but when any tradition is still in use by your church , then your churches practice being in this case a sufficient definition as to all those things so used by your church , they must be accounted apostolical , if not divine . . of what kind or nature soever these traditions are supposed to be , whether divine , apostolical , or ecclesiastical , prove any of them to contain any thing necessary for faith and salvation , and you will then come near an unwritten word . your ecclesiastical traditions you discard your self from being such , inform us then what divine and apostolical traditions those are which are founded on such an unwritten word ? whether any of your ecclesiastical traditions contradict god's word , or no , is not here a place to examine ; we are now enquiring , whether there be any such thing as an unwritten word at all , which contains any matter necessary for us to believe , or practise . the only pretence you have here for it , is , that we believe by divine faith , that scripture is god's vvord , and that there is no other vvord of god to assure us of this point , but the tradition delivered to us by the church , and that such tradition so delivered , must be the unwritten vvord of god. how far we are to believe scriptures to be the vvord of god , with divine faith , will be throughly examined in its due time ; and likewise how far any vvord of god is necessary for the foundation of this faith : only i cannot here but take notice , what it is which makes a tradition be the unwritten vvord of god ; and what becomes then of your former distinction concerning traditions ? for we see , that which makes them the vvord of god , is their being delivered by the church ; so that let their authour , nature , or matter be what it will , according to this principle any tradition being delivered by your church , becomes an unwritten vvord . so i come to the second proposition . . that the ground of believing any unwritten word , is the infallibility of your church defining it to be so . for you say , as the church was infallible in defining what was written , so is she also infallible in defining what was not written . and so she can neither tradere non traditum , nor can she be unfaithful to god , in not faithfully keeping the depositum committed to her trust : neither can her sons ever justly accuse her of the contrary , but are bound to believe her tradition , because she being infallible , the tradition she delivers can never be against the word of their father . the substance of all which , is that which i laid down as your proposition , that the ground of believing any tradition to be apostolical , or any unwritten word is your churches infallibility in defining it to be so . which being built on a principle , i have already manifested to be so fallacious and uncertain , i might , without further trouble , quit my hands of it : but i shall , however , shew how inconsistent this is with the rules of the ancients , for discerning when traditions are apostolical , and when not . the great rule we meet with among the ancients for judging apostolical traditions , is that of vincentius lyrinensis , in ipsâ item catholicâ ecclesiâ magnoperè curandum est , ut id teneamus , quod ubique , quod semper , quod ab omnibus creditum est : hoc est enim verè proprieque catholicum . if this be a certain rule to judge of catholick and apostolical traditions by , viz. that which hath been held every where , alwaies , and by all ; then the judgement of your church cannot be the infallible definer of apostolical traditions , unless you will suppose that your church only can tell us , what was held every where , alwaies , and by all : and if your church alone can infallibly determine what traditions are apostolical , to what purpose should we be put to such a vvild-goose chase , to enquire vniversality , antiquity , and consent in all things which pretend to be traditions . but to any reasonable man , as to any thing which pretends to be a matter necessary to be believed or practised , which is not expresly revealed in scripture ; this rule of vincentius seems very just and equitable , that before we believe it necessary , it be made appear , that it was universally believed by christians to be so , and that in all ages . and i assure you , i am so far convinced of the reasonableness of this proposal , that if you will make out any of those things controverted between us , such as invocation of saints , vvorship of images , transubstantiation , adoration of the eucharist , purgatory , indulgences , the pope's supremacy , &c. by these rules , and make it appear to me , that these were held by all christian churches , at all times , or have antiquity , vniversality , and consent ; i shall be very inclinable to embrace what your church would impose upon me . but when i know how impossible a task this is , i do not at all wonder that you should quit this formerly magnified saying of vincentius , and resolve all into the infallibility of the present church . but hereby we see , how far you are from the judgement of antiquity , as to this very point of the tryal of doctrinal traditions , since you can see no security any where but in your selves , and your churches infallibility ; i will therefore reduce the controversie yet shorter : prove but this infallibility of your church in defining the written and unwritten vvord by these rules of vincentius , vniversality , antiquity and consent , and i will yield you all the rest . but what unreasonable men are you , if you must be parties and judges too ; or if we must believe an unwritten vvord , because your church is infallible ; and believe your church infallible , because that is an unwritten vvord . and well may you call it so ; for , search the whole book of scriptures , and all the records of the primitive church , and you find nothing at all of it . we see plainly then , you are resolved to be tryed by none but your selves , and so you are catholicks , because you say , you are so ; and , your church infallible , because she pretends to be so . . that our belief of the scriptures must be resolved into an unwritten vvord , which is defined by your church to be such . this is that , for whose sake all your other discourse is brought in , and is the main thing to the purpose : although you pretend likewise to a power in your church , to declare what christ said when he held his peace . ( but , are you sure your church will be infallible in that too ? ) for when his lordship had said , that where-ever christ held his peace , and that his words are not registred , no man may dare without rashness , to say , they were these or these : you very gravely add , that his lordship must give you leave to tell him , you must bind up his whole assertion with this proviso , but according as the church shall declare . your church then must declare when christ held his peace , and when he did not ; when he spake so , that others might hear him , and when he did not ; when any thing was taken notice of that he said , and when not . but when it is apparent christ both spake , and did much more than ever was written , how well doth your church acquit her office in being christ's remembrancer ? and therefore i believe your church will be guilty of the same rashness with any private person in , s. augustine's opinion , in offering to determine what christ said ▪ when either he held his peace , or his words are not registred . as for those things which you mention for traditions , not contrary to god's written word , which yet are not an unwritten word , such as the ceremonies of baptism by you mentioned , they are therefore not pertinent to our purpose , because they are only rites and ceremonies , and our discourse is about doctrinal traditions ; neither yet if i would spend time in the enquiry , could you derive them from apostolical tradition , notwithstanding what either you , or bellarmine say . but the substance of all you have to say , pertinent to your purpose , is , that though every tradition be not god's unwritten vvord , yet it being necessary for us to believe the scripture to be the vvord of god , we must believe it either for some word written or unwritten , or we shall have no divine faith at all of the point , because all divine faith must rely upon some vvord of god. this being a great novelty with you , that is , something like argumentation , it obliges me to take a little more particular notice of it . any one that considers the force of this argument , will find , that it lyes wholly upon your notion of divine faith : for it appearing unreasonable to you , that our belief that the scripture is the word , should be resolved into the written word it self ; therefore you find out an unwritten vvord of god for a divine faith to fix it self upon , which can be nothing but some vvord of god. to this therefore i answer , that when you say , it is necessary we must believe the scriptures to be the vvord of god with divine faith , this divine faith must be taken in one of these three senses ; either first , that faith may be said to be divine , which hath a divine revelation for its material object , as , that faith may be said to be a humane faith , which is conversant about natural causes , and the effects of them : and in this sense it cannot but be a divine faith , which is conversant about the scripture , because it is a divine revelation : or secondly , a faith may be said to be divine , in regard of its testimony , or formal object ; and so that is called a divine faith , which is built on a divine testimony , and that a humane faith which is built on a humane testimony : thus i assert , all that faith which respects particular objects of faith , supposing the belief of the scriptures , is in this sense divine , because it is built on a properly divine testimony ; but the question is , whether that act of faith which hath the whole scripture as its material object , be in that sense divine or no. thirdly , faith may be said to be divine , in regard of the divine effects it hath upon the soul of man ; as it is said in scripture , to purifie the heart , overcome the world , resist satan , and his temptations , receive christ , &c. and this is properly a divine faith ; and there is no question , but every christian ought to have this divine faith in his soul , without which the other sorts of divine faith will never bring men to heaven . but it is apparent , that all who heartily profess to believe the scriptures to be the vvord of god , have not this sort of divine faith , though they have so firm an assent to the truth and authority of it , that they durst lay down their lives for it . the assent therefore , we see , may be firm , where the effects are not saving : the question now is , whether this may be called a divine faith in the second sense , that is , whether it must be built on a testimony infallible ? for clearing which , we must further consider the meaning of this question , how we know scripture to be scripture ? which may import two things , how we know that all these books contain god's vvord in them ? or secondly , how we know the doctrine contained in these books to be divine ? if you then ask me , whether it be necessary that i believe with such a faith as is built on divine testimony , that these books called the scripture , contain the principles of the jewish and christian religion in them ( which we call god's vvord ) i deny it , and shall do so , till you shew me some further necessity of it than you have done yet ; and my reason is , because i may have sufficient ground for such an assent , without any divine testimony . but , if you ask me , on what ground i believe the doctrine to be divine , which is contained in those books ; i then answer affirmatively , on a divine testimony ; because god hath given abundant evidence , that this doctrine was of divine revelation . thus you see , what little reason you have to triumph in your argument from divine faith , inferring the necessity of an unwritten vvord of god. but , the further explication of these things must be reserved , till i come to the positive part of our way of resolution of faith. i now return . having , after your way ( that is , very unsatisfactorily ) attempted the vindicating your resolution of faith , from the objections which were offered against it by his lordship ; you come now to consider the second way propounded by him for the resolving faith , which is , that scripture should be fully and sufficiently known , as by divine and infallible testimony , by the resplendency of that light which it hath in it self only , and by the witness it can so give to it self ; against which he gives such evident reasons , that you acknowledge the relator himself hath sufficiently confuted it , and you agree with him in the confutation . yet herein you grow very angry with him , for saying , that this doctrine may agree well enough with your grounds , in regard you hold , that tradition may be known for god's vvord by its own light , and consequently the like may be said of scripture . this you call aspersing you , and obtruding falshoods upon you . whether it be so or no , must appear upon examination . two testimonies are cited from a. c. to this purpose , the first is , tradition of the church is of a company , which by its own light , shews it self to be infallibly assisted . your answer is , that the word [ which ] must properly relate to the preceding word company , and not to the more remote word tradition . but what of all this ? doth any thing the less follow , which the bishop charged a. c. with ? for it being granted by you , that there can be no knowing an apostolical tradition , but for the infallibility of the present church ; the same light which discovers the infallibility of that company , doth likewise discover the truth of tradition . if therefore your church doth appear infallible by its own light , which is your own confession , may not the scripture as well appear infallible by its own light . for is there not as great self-evidence , at least , that the scripture is infallible , as that your church is infallible ? and therefore that way you take to shift the objection , makes it return upon you with greater force : for , i pray tell me , how any company can appear by its own light to be assisted by the holy ghost , and not much more the holy scripture to be divine ? especially seeing you must at last be forced to derive this infallibility from the scriptures . for , you pretend to no other infallibility , than what comes by a promise of the immediate assistance of the holy ghost . how then can any company appear by its own light , to be thus infallibly assisted , unless it first appear by its own light , that there was such a promise ? and how can that , unless it antecedently appear by its own light , that the scripture , in which the promise is written , is the vvord of god ? you tell us , a. c ' s. intention is only to affirm , that the church is known by her motives of credibility , which ever accompany her , and may very properly be called her own light. how well you are acquainted with a. c ' s. intention , i know not , neither is it much matter : for , granting this to have been his intention , may not the scripture be known by her motives of credibility , as well as the church ? and do not these accompany her , as much as the church ? and may they not be called her light , as properly as those of the church ? it is plain then , by all the senses and meanings you can find out , in the very same , that you say the church may be known by her own light , the scripture may much more ; and therefore you have no reason to quarrel with his lordship or affirming it . the second testimony produced , is , that a tradition may be known to be such by the light it hath in it self ; in which ( you say ) you find not one word , of tradition being known by its own light. but , who are so blind as those who will not see ? i pray , what difference is there between a tradition being known to be such by its own light , and a tradition being known by its own light ? yes , say you , known to be such , implies , that is , to be god's unwritten word ; but are not doctrinal traditions , and an unwritten word , with you the same thing ? can therefore a tradition be known to be an unwritten word by its own light , and not be known to be a tradition by its own light ? nay , how can it possibly be known to be an unwritten word , unless it first appears to be a tradition ? for tradition containing under it both those that are unwritten words , and those that are not ; it must , in order of nature , be known to be a tradition , before it can be known to be the other : as i must first know you to be a living creature , before i can know you to be a reasonable creature ; and , i may much sooner know the one than the other . you do therefore very well when you have given us such occasion for sport to give us leave to laugh at it , as you do in your next words . but before you leave this point you have some graver matter to take notice of , which is , that you desire the reader to consider what the relator grants , viz. that the church now admits of st. james and st. judes epistles , and the apocalypse , which were not received for diverse years , after the rest of the new testament . from which you wisely inferr , that if some books are now to be admitted for canonical which were not alwayes acknowledged to be such , then upon the same authority some books may now be received into the canon , which were not so in ruffinus his time . and therefore the bishop doth elsewhere unjustly charge the church of rome , that it had erred in receiving more books into the canon , then were received in ruffinus his time . to which i answer . . by your own confession then , the church of rome doth now receive into the canon more books then she did in ruffinus his time ; from whence i enquire , whether the present church of rome were infallible in ruffinus his time in determining the canon of the scripture ? if not , then the present church is no infallible propounder of the word of god , and then all your discourse comes to nothing . if she were infallible then , she cannot be now , for now she determins otherwise as to a main point of faith than she did then ; unless you will say , your church can be infallible in determining both parts of a contradiction to be true . . is the integrity of the canon of scripture an apostolical tradition or no ? i doubt not , but you will say , it is ; if so , whether were these books which you admit now and were not admitted then , known to be of the canon by this apostolical tradition ? if not , by what right come they now to be of the canon ? if so , then was not your church in ruffinus's time , much to seek for her infallibility , in defining what was apostolical tradition , and what not ? . your main principle on which the lawfulness of adding more books to the canon of the scripture is built , is , that it is in the power of your church judicially and authoritatively to determine what books belong to the canon of the scripture , and what not , which i utterly deny . for it is impossible that your church , or any in the world , can by any definition make that book to be divine , which was not so before such a definition : for the divinity of the book doth meerly arise from divine revelation . can your church then make that to be a divine revelation , which was not so ? all that any church in the world can do in this case , is , not to constitute any new canon , which were to make books divine which were not so , but to use its utmost diligence and care in searching into the authenticalness of those copy's which have any pretence to be of the canon , and whether they did originally proceed from such persons , as we have reason to believe had an immediate assistance of the holy ghost ; and , according to the evidence they find , the church may declare and give in her verdict . for the church in this case is but a jury of grand inquest to search into matters of fact , and not a judge upon the bench to determine in point of law. and that is the true reason , why the books of the new testament were gradually received into the canon , and some a great while after others , as st. james , st. jude , the epistle to the hebrews , and the apocalypse ; because at first , the copyes being not so publickly dispersed , there was not that occasion ministred to the church for examination of them ; upon which , when by degrees they came to be more publick , it caused scruples in many concerning them , because they appeared no sooner : especially if any passages in them seemed to gratifie any of the sects then appearing ; as the epistle to the hebrews , the novatians ; and the apocalypse , the millenary's : but when upon a through search and examination of all circumstances , it did appear that these copyes were authentical , and did originally proceed from divine persons , then they came to be admitted and owned for such by the vniversal church , which we call being admitted into the canon of the scripture . which i take to be the only true and just account of that which is called the constituting the canon of scripture , not as though either the apostles met to do it , or st. john intended any such thing by those words in the end of the apocalypse ( for that book being as much lyable to question as any , how could that seal the canon for all the rest ) much less , that it was in the power of any church or council , and least of all of the pope , to determine what was canonical , and what not : but only that the church upon examination and enquiry , did by her universal reception of these books , declare it self satisfied with the evidence which was produced , that those were true and authentick copyes which were abroad under such names or titles , and that there was great reason to believe by a continued tradition from the age and time these books were written in , that they were written by such persons , who were not only free from any design of imposture , but gave the greatest rational evidence , that they had a more special and immediate assistance of gods spirit . you see then , to how little advantage to your cause you made this digression . as to the third way propounded for resolving the question , how we know the scriptures to be the word of god , viz. by the testimony of the holy ghost ; three things you object against the bishops discourse about it ; first , that his discourse is roving and uncertain . . that notwithstanding his brags he must have recourse to a private spirit himself . . that though the bishop would seem to deny it , diverse eminent protestants do resolve their faith into the private spirit . this being the substance of what you say , i shall return a particular answer to each of them . for the first you tell us , he delivers himself in such a roving way of discourse , as signifies nothing in effect as to what he would drive at . no ? that is strange , when that which his lordship drives at , is , to shew how far this opinion is to be allowed and how far not , which he is so far from roving in , that he clearly and distinctly propounds the state of the question and the resolution of it : which in short is this , if by the testimony of the spirit be meant any special revelation of a new object of faith , then he denies the truth of it at least in an ordinary way , both because god never sends us to look for such a testimony , and because it would expose men to the danger of enthusiasms : but if by the testimony of the spirit be meant the habit or the act of divine infused faith , by vertue of which they believe the object which appears credible , then he grants the truth but denyes the pertinency of it , because it is quite out of the state of the question , which inquires only after a sufficient means to make this object credible , against all impeachment of folly and temerity in believing , whether men do actually believe or not . and withal adds , that the question is of such outward and evident means , as other men may take notice of , as well as our selves . judge you now , whether this may be called roving ; if it be so , i can freely excuse you from it in all the discourses i have met with in your book , who abhorre nothing more then a true stating , and methodical handling any question . but yet ( say you ) the bishop cannot free himself from that imputation of recurring to the private spirit , against any that should press the business home . sure you refer us here to some one else who is able to press a business home , for you never attempt it your self ; and instead of that , only produce a large testimony out of a. c. that he did not acquit the bishop wholly of this . whether he did or no is to little purpose , and yet those very words which his lordship cites , are in your testimony produced out of him . only what you add more from him , that he must be driven to it ; that his lordship denies , and neither a. c. or you have been able to prove it . but though the bishop seems not only to deny any such private revelation himself , but will not confess that any protestants hold it ; yet ( you say ) there can be no doubt in this , since calvin and whitaker do both so expresly own it . but according to those principles laid down before , both these testimonies are easily answered . for , . neither of them doth imply any private revelation of any new object , but only a particular application of the evidence appearing in scripture to the conscience of every believer . . that these testimonies do not speak of the external evidence which others are capable of , but of the internal satisfaction of every ones conscience . therefore calvin saith , si conscientiis optimè consultum volumus , &c. if we will satisfie our own consciences ; not , if we will undertake to give a sufficient reason to others of our faith. so whitaker , esse enim dicimus certius & illustrius testimonium quo nobis persuadeatur hos libros esse sacros , &c. there is a more certain and noble testimony by which we may be perswaded that these books are sacred , viz. that of the holy ghost . . neither of these testimonies affirm any more , than the more judicious writers among your selves do . your canus asserts the necessity of an internal efficient cause , by special assistance of the spirit moving us to believe , besides and beyond all humane authorities and motives , which of themselves are not sufficient to beget faith , and this ( a little after ) he calls , divinum quoddam lume● incitans ad credendum , a divine light moving us to believe ; and again , interius lumen infusum à spirit● sancto , an inward light infused by the spirit of god. there is nothing in the sayings of the most rigid protestants is more hard to explain or vindicate from a private revelation then this is : if , as you say , one would press it home . nay hath not your own stapleton , calvins very phrase of the necessity of the secret testimony of the spirit that one believe the testimony and judgement of the church concerning scripture . and is there not then as much danger of enthusiasm in believing the testimony of your church , as in believing the scriptures ? nay , doth not your gregory de valentiâ rather go higher then the testimonies by you produced out of calvin and whitaker on this very subject , in the beginning of his discourse of the resolution of faith. it is god himself , saith he , in the first place , which must convince and perswade the minds of men of the truth of the christian doctrine , and consequently of the sacred scriptures , by some inward instinct and impulse ; as it appears from scripture it self , & is fully explained by prosper . if you will then undertake to clear this inward instinct and impulse upon the minds of men , whereby they are perswaded of the truth of christianity and scripture , from enthusiasm and a private spirit you may as easily do it for the utmost which is said by calvin , or whitaker , or any other protestant divine . this therefore is only an argument of your desire to cavil , and as such i will pass it over . for what concerns the influence which the spirit hath in the resolution of faith , it will be enquired into afterwards . the last way mentioned in order to the resolution of faith , is , that of reason , which ( his lordship saith ) cannot be denyed to have some place to come in , and prove what it can . according to which ( he tells us ) no man can be hindred from weighing the tradition of the church , the inward motives in scripture it self , all testimonies within , which seem to bear witness to it ; and in all this ( saith he ) there is no harm : the danger is , when a man will use no other scale but reason , or prefer reason before any other scale . reason then , can give no supernatural ground into which a man may resolve his faith , that the scripture is the word of god infallibly ; yet reason can go so high , as it can prove that christian religion , which rests upon the authority of this book , stands upon surer grounds of nature , reason , common equity , and justice , then any thing in the world , which any infidel , or meer naturalist , hath done , doth , or can adhere unto , against it , in that which he makes , accounts , or assumes as religion to himself . this is the substance of his lordships discourse about the use of reason ; in which we observe , . that he doth not make reason a means sufficient to ground an infallible belief , that scripture is the word of god. and therefore you are guilty of notorious oscitancy , or willful calumny , in telling us , that natural reason is introduced by the bishop for that end . by which we may guess at the truth of what you say at the end of your interlocutory discourse between the bishop and the heathen , that you have not wronged him , by either falsly imposing on him , or dissembling the force of his arguments , wherein you are so guilty , that the only extenuation of your crime had been , never to have professed the contrary . for you give us a hopeful specimen of your fair dealings at your entrance on this subject . . though reason cannot give a supernatural ground whereby to resolve faith as to the scriptures being gods word infallibly ; yet reason may abundantly prove to any one who questions it , the truth and reasonableness of christian religion . by which if you please , you may take notice of a double resolution of faith : the one is , into the truth and reasonableness of the doctrine of christianity considered in it self ; and the other is , into the infallible means of the conveyance of that doctrine to us , which is the scripture . when therefore his lordship offers to deal with a heathen , he doth not as you , either sillily or wilfully , would make him say , that he would prove infallibly to him , that the bible is gods word , but that christian religion hath so much the advantage above all others , as to make it appear , that it stands upon surer grounds of nature , reason , common equity and justice , then any thing in the world , which any one who questions it doth adhere unto . which i think is a thing that no one , who understands christian religion , would be afraid to undertake against any infidel of what sort or nature soever . these things being premised , your grand piece of sophistry in the dispute between the heathen and the bishop , whom you so solemnly introduce at a conference about religion , doth evidently discover it self . wherein , you bring in your learned heathen , as one desiring satisfaction in matter of religion ; but being not verst in christian principles , desires to be satisfied by the evidence of natural reason ; which when the bishop hath condescended to ; your very next thing is , that your heathen understands by his lordships book , that the sole foundation of our faith is a book called the bible ; which saith he , you tell me must be believed infallibly with every part and parcel in it , to be the undoubted word of the true god , before i can believe any other point of religion as it ought to be believed . as to which , your heathen sees no ground to assent that it is gods word . but by this way of management of your dispute , we may easily discern which way the issue of it is like to go . doth his lordship any where undertake to prove this in the first place infallibly to a heathen , that the bible must be infallibly believed to be gods word ? no , he offers to prove , first , the excellency and the reasonableness of the christian religion considered in its self . from whence you might easily conceive how the dispute ought to be managed ; shewing first , that the precepts of christianity are highly just and reasonable , the promises of it such as may induce any reasonable man to the practice of those precepts ; and that the whole doctrine is such , as may appear to any considerative person to have been very wisely contrived : that there is nothing vain or impertinent in it , but that it is designed for great and excellent purposes , the bringing men off from the love of sin , to the love of god ; that it is impossible to imagine any doctrine to be contrived with more advantage for promoting these ends , because it represents to us the highest expressions of the kindness and goodness of god to man , and that the promises made by god were confirmed to the world by the death of his only son ; that since mens natures are now so degenerate , god hath made a tender of grace , and divine assistance , whereby to enable men to perform the excellent duties of this religion . that those things which seem most hard to believe in this doctrine , are not such things as might have been spared out of it ( as though god did intend only to puzzle mens reason with them ) but they are such mysteries , as it is impossible the wit of man can conceive they should have been discovered upon better reasons , or for more excellent ends ; as , that a virgin should conceive by the immediate power of god , to bring him into the world , who should be the saviour of it ; that there should be a resurrection of bodies , in order to a compleat felicity of them who obey this doctrine ; and so for others of a like nature : that supposing it possible such things should be , it is impossible to conceive they should be done upon better grounds , or for better purposes than they are in christian religion . this being now a short draught or idea of christianity , is the first thing which i suppose any learned or inquisitive heathen or infidel should be acquainted with ; if he finds fault with this , let him in any thing shew the incongruity or unreasonableness of it . if he acknowledge this model of the doctrine reasonable , his next scruple is , whether this be truly the model of it or no ; for that end i tell him , we have a book among us , which is , and ever hath been , by christians , taken for granted , to comprize in it the principles of christian religion ; i bid him take it , and read it seriously , and see if that which i have given him as the idea of christian doctrine , do not perfectly agree with that book . i do not bid him presently absolutely and infallibly believe this book to be god's vvord , which is a very preposterous way of proceeding ; but only compare the doctrine with the book , as he would do a body of civil law , with the institutes of it ; or the principles of any science , with the most approved authors of it . if after this search , he be satisfied , that the representation i gave him of christian religion , agrees with those books we call the bible ; he yet further adds , that he acknowledges the principles of our religion to be reasonable ; but desires to be satisfied of the truth of them ; i must further enquire , whether he doth believe any thing else to be in the world , besides what he hath seen and heard himself ? i may justly suppose his answer affirmative ; i then demand upon what grounds ? a. vpon the certain report of honest men , who have seen and heard other things than ever he did . but why do you think honest mens reports to be credible in such cases ? a. because , i see , they have no design or interest to deceive me in it . will you then believe the report of such men , whom , i can make it appear , could have no interest in deceiving you ? a. i can see no reason to the contrary . will you then believe such men , who lost their lives to make it appear , that their testimony was true ? a. yes . will you believe such things , wherein persons of several ages , professions , nations , religions , interests , are all agreed that they were so ? a. yes , if it be only to believe a matter of fact on their testimony ; i can see no ground to question it . that is all i desire of you , and therefore you must believe that there was in the world such a person as jesus christ , who dyed , and rose again ; and , while he lived , wrought great miracles to confirm his doctrine with ; and that he sent out apostles to preach this doctrine in the world , who likewise did work many miracles , and that some of these persons the better to preserve and convey this doctrine , did write the substance of all that christ either did , or spake , and withall penned several epistles to those churches which were planted by them . these are all matters of fact , and therefore on your former principle you are to believe them . there are then but two scruples left , supposing all this true , yet this doth not prove the doctrine divine ; nor the scriptures , which convey it , to be infallible . to which i answer , . can you question , whether that doctrine be divine , when the person who declared it to the world , was so divine and extraordinary a person , not only in his conversation , but in those frequent and unparalleld miracles which he wrought in the sight and face of his enemies , who , after his death , did rise again , and converse with his disciples , who gave evidence of their fidelity in the testimony they gave of it , by laying down their lives to attest the truth of it ? again , can you question the divinity of that doctrine , which tended so apparently to the destruction of sin and wickedness , and the power of the evil spirit in the world ? for , we cannot think he would quit his possession willingly out of the bodies and souls of men ; that therefore which threw him out of both , must be , not only a doctrine directly contrary to his interest , but infinitely exceeding him in power : and that can be no less than divine . but still , you will say , is it not , besides all this , necessary to believe these very books , you call the scripture , to be divinely inspired ; and how should i know that ? to that i answer , . that which god chiefly requires from you , is , the belief of the truth and divinity of the doctrine ; for that is the faith which will bring you to obedience , which is the thing god aims at . . if you believe the doctrine to be true and divine , you cannot reasonably question the infallibility of the scriptures . for , in that you read , that not only christ did miracles , but his apostles too ; and therefore their testimony , whether writing or speaking was equally infallible ; all that you want evidence for , is , that such persons writ these books , and that being a matter of fact , was sufficiently proved and acknowledged before . thus you see , if we take a right method , and not jumble things confusedly together , as you do , what a satisfactory account may be given to any inquisitive person ; first , of the reasonableness ; next , of the truth ; and lastly , of the divinity , both of the doctrine , and the books containing it , which we call the scripture . let us now again see , how you make the bishop and heathen dispute . the substance of which , is , that you make your heathen desire no less than infallible evidence that the bible is god's vvord by conviction of natural reason ; whereas his lordship attempts only to make the authority of scriptures appear by such arguments , as unbelievers themselves could not but think reasonable , if they weighed them with indifferency . for , though , saith he , this truth , that scripture is the vvord of god , is not so demonstratively evident à priori , as to inforce assent , yet it is strengthened so abundantly with probable arguments , both from the light of nature it self , and humane testimony , that he must be very wilful and self-conceited , that shall dare to suspect it . and sure any reasonable man in the world would think it sufficient to deal with an adversary upon such terms . but , saies your heathen , a man cannot be infallibly certain of what is strengthened with but probable arguments , since that which is but probably true , may also be said to be but probably false . which being a thing so often objected against us by your party , must be somewhat further explained . how far infallibility may be admitted in our belief , may partly be perceived by what hath been said already , and what shall be said more afterwards . that there is , and ought to be the highest degree of actual certainty ; i assert as much as you : but , say you , the very arguments being but probable , destroy it : to which i answer , by explaining the meaning of probable arguments , in this case ; whereby are not understood such kind of probabilities , which cannot raise a firm assent , in which sense we say , that which is probable to be , is probable not to be ; but by probabilities are only meant such kind of rational evidence , which may yield a sufficient foundation for a firm assent , but yet notwithstanding , which an obstinate person may deny assent . as for instance , if you were to dispute with an atheist concerning the existence of a deity , which he denies , and should proceed with you just as your heathen doth with the bishop . sir , all that religion you talk of , is built only upon the belief of a god , but i cannot be infallibly convinced by natural reason , that there is such a one . you presently tell him , that there is so much evidence for a deity , from the works of nature , the consent of all people , &c. that he can have no reason to question it . but still he replies , none of these are demonstrations , for notwithstanding i have considered these , i believe the contrary ; but demonstrations would make me infallibly certain ; these then are no more but probable arguments , and therefore since it is but probably true , it may be probably false . how then will you satisfie such a person ? can you do it any otherwise , than by saying , that we have as great evidence as the nature of the thing will bear , and it is unreasonable to require more ? unless you will tell him , it is to no purpose to believe a god , unless he believe it infallibly ; and there being no infallible arguments in nature , he must believe it on the infallibility of your church . and do you not think , this were an excellent way to confute atheists ? but when we speak of probable arguments , we mean not such as are apt to leave the mind in suspence , whether the thing be true or no ; but only such as are not proper and rigid demonstrations , or infallible testimony , but the highest evidence which the nature of the thing will bear , and therefore may cause an undoubted certainty of assent . as it is in all matters of fact ; for , will you say , that it is as probable , that there is not such a place as rome , as that there is , because the only argument you have to be convinced of it , is but in it self a probability , which is the fame and report of people . it is a piece therefore of great weakness of judgement , to say , that there can be no certain assent , where there is a meer possibility of being deceived . for there is no kind of assent in the humane understanding , as to the existence of any thing , but there is a possibility of deception in it . will you say , because it is possible all mens senses may deceive them , therefore there can be no certainty of any object of sense ? and , as well may you say it , as destroy any certainty of assent in religion , where you suppose a possibility of being deceived . but , if i be not much deceived ( though i suppose you will account it a grand paradox ) an assent may be as firm and certain upon moral grounds , as upon a demonstration , that is , when the matter is capable of no more than moral grounds . for , the reason why we suspend assent , is the unproportionateness of the evidence to the matter to be proved : so , when the matter is capable of more evidence than is produced , and i know it to be so , my understanding cannot firmly assent on such evidence ; but when the matter is capable of no more than moral evidence , and i know it , i may as firmly assent to the truth of such a thing , as to the truth of a clearer thing , upon clearer evidence . thus i may as firmly assent , that there are such places as the east and west-indies , upon the constant report of men , as that the three angles of a triangle , are equal to two right angles : i say not , the evidence is the same , but that the assent may be as firm . you cannot then destroy the certainty of assent , which is required to christian religion , by telling men , that the arguments they rely on , are but moral arguments : and by this , you may see , there may be a degree far beyond probability in the assent , where the arguments in themselves considered , may be called probable ; or rather , that moral certainty may be a most firm , rational , and undoubted certainty . your following discourse between the bishop and heathen , run upon the former mistake , as though his intention were to prove first the bible to be god's infallible word , before he would prove christian religion to be true , which i have already shewed you , is a mistake , which appears sufficiently by his own words , of proving the christian religion to stand upon surer grounds than any other religion ; not only than that one which the heathen believed , but any other in the world : and therefore your objection is answered , that for all this , a third religion may be truer than both . your remaining discourse proves nothing at all , but on the former supposition ; and therefore , supposing his intention be to prove christianity to be true and divine , his argument from the power of it over the devil , follows plainly enough . and when he mentions the evidence of it out of scripture , he doth not suppose the belief of it as an infallible word of god , but only as of any other history , and therefore is far from such a petitio principii , as you imagine . that which the bishop saith , may reasonably be supposed , as a principle in divinity ( as there are postulata in other sciences ) is not the infallibility of the doctrine , or revelation , but the credibility of both , in order to further conviction concerning their infallibility ; for , unless the credibility of it be first assumed as a principle , men will not use the means in order to conviction of its infallibility . and in this sense he doth not contradict himself , nor unsay what he had said before ; and that this was his sense , appears by the last words of that discourse , that a meer natural man may be thus far convinced , that the text of god is a very credible text. thus we see , how much , notwithstanding your protestation to the contrary , you have wronged the bishop , both by falsly imposing on him , and dissembling the force of his argument : and how unjust that imputation is , that if his doctrine had been held in the primitive church , it would have laid the world under an impossibility of being converted to christianity ; whereas i have shewed how consonant his way is , as i explained it , both to reason , and the proceedings of the primitive christians in the conversion of learned heathens . but since , you will needs set the bishop to convert a learned heathen , i will see what an excellent faculty you have according to your principles of satisfying an atheist , or a sceptick in religion , whom , for your sake , i will suppose more desirous of satisfaction , than commonly such persons are . let us see then how he accosts you . scept . sir , i understand by a great book of yours , that you have only taken the right course to convince such persons as my self , who are a little doubtful concerning the received principles of religion in the world ; for the wisest i have conversed with , of those who own those things , do offer only to prove them by reason and arguments , which , i understand , you decry , as a way to make all men such as i am : but that you have an excellent recipe for men under my distemper ; for you promise them no less then infallible certainty in all things you require them to believe , which is a thing i have been so long seeking for , and have yet so unhappily mist of , that i cannot but rejoyce in meeting with such a healing priest , who offers nothing short of infallibility in all matters of religion . t. c. sir , i question not , but before you and i part , i shall cure those distorted joynts of your mind , and instead of being a sceptick , make you a sound catholick . for indeed it is true , what you say , that those who would convince you by reason , do but offer to make you more a sceptick than you are , at least , you can have no divine faith at all upon such principles ; but if you will follow my counsel , i doubt not but to make you infallibly certain in the things we require you to believe . scept . i see then there is hope of a cure for me ; but i pray tell me what that is i must be infallibly certain of , and by what means i shall attain it . i would therefore in the first place be infallibly certain of the being of god , and the immortality of souls , for these i take to be the principles of all religion . t. c. you take a wrong method , you should first enquire after the means of this infallible certainty , for when once you have got that , it will make you infallibly certain of what ever you desire ; but as long as you use still so much reason , as to demand infallible certainty in principles before conclusions , there is little hopes of your being a true roman catholick . but i must tell you , this is not the way : you must first believe the church , and then you may believe any thing . scept . but would you have me attain infallible certainty , without any reason that is infallible ? but because you quarrel with my method , i will yield to yours , but let me desire to know first , what those things are which i must believe upon this infallibility ? and then , whether nothing short of this infallible certainty will serve in order to faith ? for if so , i must confess my self not only a sceptick but an infidel . t. c. all objects of faith must be believed with infallible certainty , and nothing short of that can be true faith , for true divine faith must rely on divine authority , or some word of god : now because you cannot rely on gods written word for the divine authority of it self , you must rely on some divine unwritten word ; which can be no other but what is delivered by the infallible testimony of the present roman church . scept . i was in hopes , you intended my cure , but now i perceive you aim at making me worse ; for i never heard so many things uttered in a breath with so great confidence , and so little shew of reason ; that if i were not a sceptick already , i should commence one now . you tell me indeed very magisterially , that i cannot believe without infallibility , because faith must rely on a divine testimony ; this divine testimony is not in scripture ( as you call it ) but in the infallibility of your present roman church ; i find my doubts so increase by this discourse of yours , that they all croud so to get out , i know not how to propose them in order , but as well as i can . you tell me the ground why you require infallible certainty , is , because faith must rest on divine authority , and that this authority must be that of your church , which you say is infallible : these things therefore i desire of you , first , to shew how your churches authority comes to be divine . . how her testimony comes to be infallible . . how i may be infallibly certain of this infallibility . . supposing the catholick churches testimony to be so , how such a sceptick as i am , should know your roman church to be that catholick church . t. c. your first question is , how our churches authority comes to be divine ? i see there is little hopes of doing good on you , that ask such questions as these are ; you ought quietly to submit your faith to the church , and heartily believe all these things without questioning them ; for i must tell you , such kind of questions have almost ruined us , and hath made scrupulous men turn hereticks , and others atheists : but since i hope your questions may go no further then my answers , nor be any better understood , i must tell you ; that though we say , that it is necessary that divine faith must rely on divine authority because that seems to promise infallibility ; yet when we come to our churches testimony , we dare not for fear of the hereticks call it divine , but infallible and in a manner , and after a sort divine , hoping they would never take notice of any contradiction in it , but still we say , as far as concerns precise infallibility , it is so truly supernatural and certain , that it comes nothing short of the divinest testimony ; but yet this is not divine , though it be by the testimony of the holy ghost , and yet is no immediate revelation ; but still it is so much , as if the church should erre , gods veracity may be called in question assoon as the churches . scept . i took you for a priest before , but now i take you for an absolute conjurer : but i confess , i like this discourse well , for i perceive your religion is built on such grounds , as you never intend should be understood , wherein i commend your discretion ; for these distinctions will doubtless do your work among silly and ignorant people , which are a great part of mankind and much the greatest of your church . i am therefore infinitely satisfied with this answer to my first question ; answer but the rest so , and i promise you to be less a sceptick then ever i was . t. c. to your second , how her testimony comes to be infallible ; because i perceive you are an understanding person , i will acquaint you with our way . the hereticks trouble us with this question above all others : for they presently cry out , if you know the scripture to be infallible by the church , and the church infallible by scripture , we run into a circle ; and this we know as well as they , but do not think fit to let the people know it , and therefore we tell them of things being known in themselves and to us , between the formal object and the infallible witness , between the principal cause and a condition prerequisite , between proving of it to hereticks and to our selves ; but i see some of my brethren of late have been much beholding to some things with vizards upon them called motives of credibility , and the generality are so frighted with them , that they will rather say they are satisfied then ask any more questions ; but if they do , these do so little in truth belong to our church , that then we storm , and sweat , and cry out upon them as atheists , and that it is impossible they should believe any religion who question them ; and if that doth it not , then we patter over the former distinctions as we do our prayers , and hope they are both in an unknown tongue . scept . well , i see you are the man like to give me satisfaction ; i pray to your third question , how i may be infallibly certain of this infallibility ? t.c. that is a question never asked by catholicks , and if we find any propounding it whom we hoped to proselyte , we give them hard words and leave them ; for because we offer to prove our infallibility by only motives of credibility , they presently ask us , whether our infallibility be an article of faith ? if it be , then they may believe an article of faith without infallible certainty , and then what need our churches infallibility ? and then to what end do we quarrel with their faith for being built on greater motives of credibility ? which being such untoward questions we see there is no good to be done on them and so leave them : but in our books we are sure to cry out of the fallibility and uncertainty of the faith of protestants , because they acknowledge their churches not infallible , and cry up our church because she pretends to it ; if they ask , how we prove it , we seek to confound the state of the question , and run out into the necessity of an unwritten word , or bring such motives as hold only for the primitive and apostolical church , and make them serve ours too . if all this will not do , we have other shifts still , but it is not yet fit to discover them . scept . to your fourth question ( and then i will tell you my judgement ) how your church comes to be called or accounted the catholick church ? t. c. for this , though it seems strange to the hereticks , how a part should be called or accountd the whole , yet to all true catholicks , who must wink hard that they may see the better , we make no great difficulty of it : for we tell them the pope is christs vicar , and it is the head which gives the denomination , and so catholick is nothing else but a name to denote persons who are in our church ; and if they question this , they thereby are out of the church , and so under damnation ; but for the sturdy hereticks who deride our thunderbolts , we are put to a greater trouble , and are fain to gather all the citations of the fathers against the poor donatists and apply them to the hereticks , and what ever they say belongs to the catholick church we confidently arrogate it to our selves , as though our church now were the same with the catholick church then : and chiefly we have the advantage of the protestants by this , that whatever corruptions they charge us with , they had the good hap to be almost generally received at the time luther appeared , and upon this we thunder them with the succession and visibility of our church ; as the samaritans were much to blame they did not serve the israelites so , after their return from captivity ; for they had a continual succession in the same place , and a greater visibility than the israelites under their bondage ; but yet we had the advantage of them by a larger spread , a longer prescription , and a fairer shew . scept . sir , i am hugely taken with these discourses of yours , and easily perceive ( whatever they that believe christian religion to be true think ) that you are men of wit and parts ; and understand your interest , i mean your religion . i understand now throughly , to what intent it is you say , that those who build their faith on rational grounds , go about to destroy religion . i confess , you have taken the only way to reclaim me from any thing of scepticism . i suppose you understand my meaning , as i do yours . in this discourse i pretend not , as you did , to deliver his lordships words , and so wrong him by falsly imposing them on him in another sense then he intended them , but collect from your former managery of this controversie , what your real sense and meaning is , and how excellent a way this is , instead of reclaiming atheists to make them so . if i have mistaken your meaning , i pray speak more clearly , and then we shall think you mean honestly ; but as long as you walk so much in the dark , you will give us leave to suspect your design is either upon our purses or our religion . i now return to your church-tradition . you begin your sixth section with a fair supposition and carry it on accordingly , which is of a child brought up in your church , who is commanded to believe the scriptures , and all other articles of faith on the authority of your church , whom you suppose to dye without once looking into the scriptures : your question is , whether he had saving faith or no ; if so , then the churches authority is a sufficient ground for infallible faith ; if not , then he had none at all , and consequently could not be saved . i answer , we pry not into divine secrets , on which account we dare not pronounce of the final condition of such who through ignorance cannot be acquainted with gods written word ; we therefore say , that an hearty assent to the doctrine of the gospel is the faith which god requires , and if this faith lead men to obedience to gods will , we assert the sufficiency of it for salvation , and not otherwise ; for faith is not therefore saving , because built on an infallible ground , as you fondly seem to imagine ; but when it attains its end , when it brings men to a hearty obedience to the precepts of the gospel . and if some among you , may believe that which is in it self true , but upon weak and insufficient grounds , as the advantages of education ( which are much rather the foundation of the faith of such a one as you speak of , then any infallibility supposed by him in the church ) yet such and so great is the goodness of god , that if a faith standing on such grounds do attain its end , that is , make such a one universally holy , we deny not , but god may accept of it for salvation . but still we say , such a faith is so far from being infallible , that it is not built on any sufficient or satisfactory ground , for the motive of it is that , which may be false as well as true ; for he that assents to any thing on the authority of any church , before he doth judge whether her authority be to be relyed on absolutely or no , may believe a falshood assoon as truth upon that authority ; and the more he makes this his foundation , the more he is in danger of being deceived . as suppose a child brought up in turky and instructed in that religion ; he is told that he must without examination believe mahomets alcoran to be divine ; and he must neither doubt of this , nor of any other article of faith , universally received among mahumetans : may not such a one as invincibly believe the authority of the turkish church ( if we may call it so ) as your child doth the authority of your church ? where then lies the difference ? you see plainly , it cannot be in the motive to faith , for the authority is supposed equally infallible in both ; but it lies in the evidence of truth in one religion above the other , and this requires something more then the authority of the church , viz. judgement and diligent examination . and then faith is built on a sure ground . remember then , that we enquire not what abatements god makes for the prejudices of education in believing or not believing any religion ; nor how god intends to deal with them , who through age or other invincible prejudices are uncapable of judging the evidence of truth in any religion ; but what are the certain grounds of faith , which sober and understanding men may and ought to build their belief of true religion upon . but you proceed , and suppose your young christian to live , and apply himself to study , and becomes a learned man , and then upon the churches recommendation betakes himself to the reading the scriptures , upon which by the light he discovers in it he finds the faith he had before , was but a humane perswasion and not a divine faith , and consequently that he had no saving faith of any article of christian belief , and so was out of the state of salvation ; from whence ( you say ) will spring gripes and torture of spirit among christians . and why so ? what , because they discern greater reason to believe then ever they did , must they find gripes and torture of spirit ? i had thought , the more light men had found , i. e. the more reason for believing , the more peace and contentment they had in their minds . and so i verily believe it is : but probably your meaning is , this doctrine will cause gripes and torture of spirit in those who have no other foundation of faith , but your churches authority , and never enquire after more : if it does so , much good may they do them ; and i verily believe , such doubts may tend more to their satisfaction at last , than their present security ; and a doctrine which tends to convince the world of the folly and unreasonableness of such a kind of implicite faith , the unsuitableness of it to the nature of religion in general , but more especially the christian ( whose great commendation is , that it puts men upon so much searching and enquiry into the truth of it ) would tend more to the good of the christian world , than any of those soft and easie principles which you seek to keep men in obedience by , and that i am afraid more to your church than to christ. why then such a doctrine should cause needless gripes and tortures of spirit , i cannot imagine : it must certainly be a great confirmation to the mind of any good man to see still further reason for his faith , by which it grows more radicated and confirmed . or would you have a man disquiet himself , because he is not still a child ? much such a kind of thing this is , that a mans mind must be tortured , because his faith grows stronger ; for we assert that there are degrees in faith ; which you who make all faith infallible cannot do , unless you suppose an infallible thing may grow more infallible . and if all true faith be infallible , how can men pray for the increase of faith , unless they pray for the increase of their infallibility ; which is a prayer , i suppose , not many in your church are allowed to make , for then what becomes of your popes prerogative , when not only every one among you is supposed to be infallible , but hopes as well as prayes to be more infallible , which is more then your pope or your church dares pretend to . but whether doctrine tends more to inward gripes and tortures of spirit , yours or ours , let any reasonable man judge ; for we assert that true faith is capable of degrees of augmentation , but you assert that there is no divine faith but what is infallible ; when therefore men by reflection upon themselves are so far from finding such an infallibility in their assent , that they combat with many doubts and fears , as we see the apostles did even after the resurrection of christ ; you must pronounce that the apostles when they questioned christs resurrection from the dead had no divine faith at all : for it is plain they were far from an infallible assent to it , when christ upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart , because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen . were they infallible in their assent then or no ? i hope you will not contradict it so much as to say so ; or had they no divine faith then at all ? what not s. peter , for whom christ prayed that his faith should not fail , and from the indesectibility of whose faith you derive that of the pope ( but here you may see what a certain foundation you have for it , when it is so apparent here , that s. peter's faith did fail , and that as to so important an article of faith , as christ's own resurrection ; for certainly , s. peter was one of the eleven . ) nay , doth not christ upbraid them for their unbelief , in not believing them that had seen him after he was risen ? we see then , christ chides them for not resolving their faith into a humane and moral testimony : if you had been there , no doubt you must have told him , he was mistaken in the nature of faith , which could rest on nothing but an infallible testimony ; and unless he shewed you by sufficient motives , that those persons who saw him risen , were infallible , for all his haste you were not bound to believe him . but , whether christ or you be the more infallible , judge you . we see our blessed saviour requires no more assent , than the nature of the thing will bear ; nay , he upbraids those who will not believe upon moral and humane testimony ; but you say just the contrary , as though you were resolved to contradict him : but that is sufficient argument to all christians , of the falsity and folly of your doctrine , which tends to no other end , but to make all considering men scepticks , or atheists . for , when you lay it down as a certain maxim , that no faith can be divine , but what is infallible ; and they find no such infallibility in the grounds or the nature of mens assent , what then follows , but those worst sort of gripes and tortures , such as argue an inward convulsion of mind , and bring men to a greater question , whether there be any such thing , as that you call true divine faith , in the world . you go on with your catechumen's discourse , who must suppose , either that the church taught , that he was to believe scripture infallible , upon her own infallible testimony , or not ; if so , then he reflects , that this church hath plainly deceived him , and all others , who believed upon that supposition , and so exposed them all to the hazard of eternal damnation ; and therefore was no true church , but a deceiver . from whence ( say you ) he gathers , that her recommendation of scripture , is as much as nothing , and so at last , is left to the sole letter of scripture , and so must gather from thence its authority , or there can be no means left him on the bishop's own principles , to believe infallibly that scripture is divine , and the true word of god. this discourse of yours consists of three absurdities , which will follow upon one of your churches questioning her infallibity . . that then your church will be guilty of imposture . . then the churches testimony signifies nothing . . that then the sole letter of scripture must assure men of its divine authority . for the first , i must confess him whom before you supposed a child , to be now grown to years of understanding , since he doth so wisely reflect on himself , as to your churches gross imposture , in her pretence of infallibility ; and , no doubt , it is one of the greatest which hath been known in the christian world , which you cannot your self deny , supposing that it be not true that she is infallible . for , can there be any higher cheat in the world , than under a pretence of infallibility , to impose things upon mens faith , which are contrary to the sense and reason of mankind , to keep them from that inward satisfaction , which their souls might find from a serious consideration of the excellent nature of christian religion , and a diligent practice of it , to contradict thereby the very scope of christianity , which courts our esteem , by offering it self to the fairest tryal ; when , i say , under this pretence christian religion is apparently dishonoured , the welfare of mens souls hindered , and the greatest corruptions obtruded , without possibility of amendment of them , excuse your church from imposture if you can ; for my part , i cannot , nor any one else who throughly considers it . for the second ; it will follow indeed , that the testimony of your church is as much as nothing , as to any infallible foundation of faith ; but yet it may be of great use for conveying vniversal tradition to us , and so by that delivering the scripture into our hands , as the infallible rule of faith. to the third ; it by no means follows , that there is nothing but the sole letter of scripture left to convince us of the divine authority of scripture ; i hope the working miracles , fulfilling prophecies , the nature and reasonableness of the doctrine of scriptures , are all left besides the bare letter of scripture ; and these , we say , are sufficient to make us believe , that the scripture contains the infallible word of god. now your profound christian begins to reflect on the bishops way , which is ( say you ) that the testimony of the church is humane and fallible , and that the belief of the scripture rests upon the scripture it self . but , it will be more to our purpose , to hear the bishop deliver his own mind , than to hear you so lamely deliver it ; which , in short , he summs up thus . a man is probably led by the authority of the present church , as by the first informing , inducing , perswading means , to believe the scripture to be the word of god : but , when he hath studied , considered , and compared this word with its self , and with other writings , with the help of ordinary grace , and a mind morally induced , and reasonably perswaded by the voice of the church , the scripture then gives greater , and higher reasons of credibility to it self , than tradition alone could give . and then , he that believes , resolves his last and full assent , that scripture is of divine authority , into internal arguments found in the letter it self , though found by the help of tradition without , and grace within . this is the substance of his lordship's opinion , against which we shall now consider what your discourser hath to object . . the first , is from the case of ignorant and illiterate persons ; such , who either through want of learning could not read the scripture , and examine , or else made little use of it , because they supposed they might have infallible faith without it ; what then becomes of millions of such souls , both in former and present times ? to that i answer ; although the ignorance and carelesness of men in a matter of so great consequence , be so great in all ages , as is not to be justified , because all men ought to endeavour after the highest waies of satisfaction , in a matter so nearly concerning them ( and it is none of the least things to be blamed in your church , that she doth so much countenance this ignorance , and neglect of the scripture ) yet for such persons , who either morally , or invincibly , are hindered from this capacity of examining scripture , there may be sufficient means for their faith to be built upon . for , although such illiterate persons cannot themselves see , and read the scripture , yet , as many as do believe , do receive the doctrine of it , by that sense by which faith is conveyed , that is , hearing ; and by that means they have so great certainty , as excludes all doubting , that such doctrines , and such matters of fact , are contained in these books , by which they come to the understanding of the nature of this doctrine , and are capable of judging concerning the divinity of it . for the light spoken of in scripture , is not a light to the eye , but to the mind ; now the mind is capable of this light , as well by the ear , as by the eyes . the case then of such honest illiterate persons , as are not capable of reading scripture , but diligently and devoutly hear it read to them , is much of the same nature with those who heard the apostles preach this doctrine before it was writ . for , whatever was an argument to such to believe the apostles in what they spake , becomes an argument to such who hear the same things , which are certainly conveyed to us , by an unquestionable tradition : so that nothing hinders , but such illiterate persons may resolve their faith into the same doctrine and motives which others do , only those are conveyed to them by the ear , which are conveyed to others by the eyes . but , if you suppose persons so rude and illiterate , as not to understand any thing , but that they are to believe as the church believes ; do you , if you can , resolve their faith for them ; for my part , i cannot , and am so far from it , that i have no reason to believe they can have any . . the second thing objected by your discourser , is , that if the churches judgement be fallible , then much more ones own judgement is fallible . and therefore , if , notwithstanding all the care and pains taken by the doctors of the church , their perswasion was only humane and fallible ; what reason hath any particular person to say , that he is divinely and infallibly certain by his reading the scripture , that it is divine truth . but , . is there no difference between the churches perswasion , and the churches tradition ? doth the bishop deny , but the perswasion of the doctors of the church , is as infallible , as that of any particular person ? but this he denies , that they can derive that infallibility of the grounds of their perswasion into their tradition , so as those who are to receive it on their testimony , may be competent judges of it . may we not then suppose their tradition to be humane and fallible , whose perswasion of what they deliver , is established on infallible grounds ? as a mathematician is demonstratively convinced himself of the truth of any particular problem ; but , if he bids another believe it on his testimony , the other thereby hath no demonstrative evidence of the truth of it , but only so great moral evidence , as the testimony of that person carries along with it . the case is the same here : suppose those persons in the church in every age of it , have to themselves infallible evidence of the divinity of the scripture , yet when they are to deliver this to be believed by others , unless their testimony hath infallible evidence in it , men can never have more than humane or moral certainty of it . . it doth not at all follow , that if the testimony of the church be fallible , no particular person can be infallibly assured of the divinity of the scripture , unless this assurance did wholly depend upon that testimony ; indeed , if it did so , the argument would hold , but otherwise it doth not at all . now , you know , the bishop denies that the faith of any particular person doth rest upon the judgement of the church ; only he saith , this may be a motive and inducement to men , to consider further ; but that which they rely upon , is , that rational evidence which appears in the scripture it self . . he goes on , and argues against this use of tradition , thus , if the light of the scripture be insufficient to shew it self , unless it be introduced by the recommendation of the church ; how came luther , calvin , zuinglius , husse , &c. to discover this light in it , seeing they rejected the authority of all visible churches in the world , & c ? sure your discourser was not very profound in this , that could not distinguish between the authority of vniversal tradition , and the authority of the present visible church , or between the testimony of the church , and the authority of it . shew us where luther , calvin , &c. did ever reject the authority of an uncontrouled vniversal tradition , such as that here mentioned concerning the scriptures being the word of god : shew us where they deny that vse of the testimony of those churches , whose authority in imposing matters of faith they denied , which his lordship asserts , viz. to be a means to introduce men to the knowledge and belief of the scritures ; and , unless you shew this , you do nothing . . he argues against that light in scripture , because it is not sufficient to distinguish canonical books from such as are not so ; for ( saies he ) had not the ancient primitive fathers in the first three hundred years , as much reason and ability to find this light in scripture , as any particular person ? yet many books which do appear to us to be god's word , by their light , did not appear to be so to them by it , till they were declared such by the catholick church . i answer , . where doth his lordship ever say , or pretend , that any person , by the light contained in the books , can distinguish books that are canonical , from such as are not ? all that can be discovered , as to particular books in question , is , the examination of the doctrine contained in them by the series of that , which is in the unquestionable books ; for , we know , that god can never speak contradictions : but still this will only serve to exclude such books as contain things contrary , but not to admit all which have no doctrine contrary to scripture . . the reason why the primitive fathers questioned any books that we do not , was not because they could not discover that light in them , which we do ; for neither can we discover so much light in any particular book , as meerly from thence to say , it is canonical ; but there was not sufficient evidence then appearing to them , that those copies did proceed from apostolical persons ; and this was therefore only an argument of that commendable care and caution which was in them , lest any book should pass for canonical , which was not really so . . when the catholick church declared any controverted book to be canonical ; did not the church then see as much light in it as we do ? but that light which both the church and we discover , is not a discriminating internal light , but an external evidence from the sufficiency , and validity of testimony . and such we have for the canonical books of the old testament ; and therefore you have no cause to quarrel with us , for receiving them from the jewish synagogue ; for who , i pray , are so competent witnesses of what is delivered , as they who received it ? and the apostle tells us , that to the jews were committed the oracles of god. . hence your discoursing christian argues , that if one take up the scripture on the account of tradition , then , if one should deny s. matthew 's gospel to be the written word of god , he could not be accounted an heretick , because it was not sufficiently propounded to him to be god's word . whether such a person may be accounted a heretick in your sense , or no , i am sure he is in s. paul's , because 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , self-condemned , and that for the very contrary reason to what you give , because this is sufficiently propounded to him . i pray , tell me , what way you would have such a thing sufficiently propounded as a matter to be believed , that this is not propounded in ? would you have an unquestionable evidence , that this was writ by one of christ's apostles , called s. matthew ? so you have . would you have all the churches of christ agreed in this testimony in all ages from the apostles times ? so you have . would you have it delivered to you by the testimony of the present church ? so you have . what then is , or can be wanting , in order to a proposition of it to be believed ? why , forsooth , some infallible , authoritative sentence of the present church , which shall make this an object of faith. see what a different mould some mens minds are of from others ! for my part , should i see , or hear any church in the world , undertaking such an office as that , i should be so far from thinking it more sufficiently propounded by it , that i should not scruple to charge it with the greatest presumption and arrogance that may be . for , on what account can it possibly be a thing credible to me , that s. matthew's gospel contains god's written word any further , than it is evident that the person who wrote it , was one chosen by christ , to deliver the summe of his proceedings , as an apostle , to the world ? and therefore i have no reason to think , he would deceive men in what he spake or writ : the only question then is , how i should know this is no counterfeit name , but that s. matthew writ it ? let us consider , what possible means there are to be assured of it . i cannot imagine any but these two ; either that god should immediately reveal it either to my self , or to some church to propound it to me ; or else , that i am to believe those persons who first received those copies from his hands , by whose means they were dispersed abroad in the world , from whence they are conveyed by an unquestionable tradition down to us . of these two , chuse whether you please : if the first , then particular immediate revelations are necessary to particular persons , to have such an object of faith sufficiently propounded to them , and then the church cannot authoritatively pronounce any books of scripture to be canonical , without immediate revelation to her , that this book was written by such a person , who was divinely assisted in the writing of it . and this you have denied before to belong to the church . if you take up with the second , the unquestionable testimony of all ages , since the apostles ; then judge you whether s. matthew's gospel be not sufficiently propounded to be believed ; and consequently , whether any one who should question or deny it , be not guilty of the greatest peevishness and obstinacy imaginable . from hence we may see , with what superfluity of discretion the next words came from you ; nay , hence it follows , that even our blessed saviour , who is wisdom it self , would have been esteemed by all the world , not a wise law-giver , but a meer ignoramus and impostor . for shame , man , forbear such insolent expressions for the future , and repent of these . for , must christ's wisdom be called in question , and he liable to be accounted an ignoramus and impostor ; if he doth not make your church infallible ? i have told you often before , how much your doctrine of infallibility tends to atheism , and now you speak out . for the meaning of your words plainly , is , if god hath not entrusted your church with a full and absolute power to declare what is his will , and what not , christ was an ignoramus and impostor . for that is the substance of your next words . for , had he not framed , think you , a strange and chimerical common-wealth , were it alone destitute of a full and absolute power , to give an authentical and unquestionable declaration , which is the true and genuine law. now , it is evident from all your discourse foregoing , you only plead for this full and absolute power in your church ; and judge you then what the consequence is ( to all those who cannot see any shadow of reason for this your pretended infallibility ) neither more nor less , than that christ is liable to be accounted by all the world an ignoramus and impostor : nay , that they are fools , who account him not so , if they do not believe this present infallibility of your church ; for it is apparent ( say you ) that he hath ordered his common-wealth worse than ever any one did . and now let any that consider what pitiful silly proofs you have produced for this present infallibility , ( nay , such , that i am confident , that you cannot think your self you have in the least measure proved it ) then judge , what thoughts of christ you are forced to entertain your self upon your own argument , viz. as of an ignoramus and impostor . hath not your infallibility lead you now a fine dance ? is not this the way to make faith certain , and to reclaim atheists ? i had thought it had been enough for your canonists , to have charged christ with indiscretion , if he had not left a vicar on earth ; but now , it seems , the profound philosophers , learned divines , and expert historians ( for such a one , you told us , your discoursing christian was supposed by you to be in whose name these words are spoken ) do charge christ with folly and imposture , if he hath not made your church infallible . for , shift it off , as you can , you cannot deny but that must be the aim of these words : for you are proving the necessity of an infallible declaration by the present church , in order to a sufficient proposition of the scripture to be believed ; and it is notorious you never pretend that any church hath any share in this infallibility , but your own ; and therefore the consequence unavoidably follows , that since there can be no sufficient proposition , that the scripture is to be believed without this infallible testimony ; since no church pretends to this infallibility , but yours ; since , without such provision for the church , christ would have been esteemed by all the world not a wise law-giver , but a meer ignoramus and impostor ; what then follows , but that if your church be not infallible , he must be accounted so ? and if you dread not these consequences ; i hope all christians do , and have never the better thoughts of your infallibility for them . . let us see , how he comes closer to the matter it self ; and examines how this light should be infallible , and divine , supposing the churches testimony to be humane and fallible . the substance of which , is this , if the church may erre , we may suppose she hath erred in testifying some books to be god's word ; in that case , books that were not god's word , would be equally recommended with those that were : and that it would be impossible for any particular person , by reading them , to distinguish the one from the other . to which i answer . it is all one with you to suppose a church fallible , and suppose that she hath erred . to put a case of a like nature . the testimony of all mankind is fallible ; may you therefore suppose that all mankind hath erred in something they are agreed in ? the testimony of all those persons who have seen rome , is fallible ; may i therefore question whether they were not all deceived ? but of this , afterwards . . when you speak of the church erring , do you mean the church in every age since christ's coming , concerning all the books of scripture ? or , the present church , concerning only some books of scripture ? if you suppose , the church of all ages should be deceived , you must suppose some , who were infallible , should be deceived ; those were the apostles in writing and delivering their books to the churches of their time , or else you must suppose all the apostolical churches deceived in taking those books to have come from the apostles , which did not ; and is not this a congruous supposition ? well then , if it be unreasonable to suppose the apostolical churches deceived , and impossible to imagine the apostles deceived , in saying , they writ what they did not : where then must such an universal-errour as this , come in ? or , is it not equally unreasonable to suppose all the christian churches in the world should be deceived , without any questioning of such a deceit , supposing but the goodness and common providence of god in preserving such records , and the moral industry used by christians , in a matter of such importance ? it is therefore a very absurd and unreasonable thing to imagine , that all the churches of christ , in all ages , should erre in receiving all the books of scripture . let us then see , as to the present churches erring , as to particular books ? . either the records of former ages are left to judge by , or no ? if they be , as certainly they are , we thereby see a way to correct the errour of the present church , by appealing to these records of the church in former times ? if they be not left , how could any of these books be derived from apostolical tradition , when we have no means to trace such a tradition by ? . supposing only some books questioned , or that the present church erres only in some particular books ; then it appears that there remains a far greater number of such books , whose authority we have no reason at all to question , and by comparing the other with these we may easily prevent any very dangerous errour ; for if they contain any doctrine contrary to the former , we have no reason to believe them ; if they do not , there can be no very dangerous errour in admitting them . thus you see how easily this errour is prevented supposing the churches testimony not only fallible , but that it also should actually erre in delivering some books for canonical , which are not so : but supposing a church pretends to be infallible and is believed to be so , and yet doth actually erre in delivering the canon of scripture , what remedy is there then ? for while we look on the churches testimony as fallible , there is scope and liberty left for enquiry and further satisfaction , but if it be looked on as infallible , all that believe it to be so are left under an impossibility of escaping that errour which she is guilty of . and the more dangerous such an errour is , the worse the condition is of all such who believe the churches testimony infallible . now this is that we justly charge your church with , that while she pretends to infallibility , she hath actually erred in delivering such books for canonical which are not so , as hath been abundantly manifested by the worthies of our church . the remainder of this discourse of yours concerning knowing canonical books by the light in them , is vacated by our present answer ; and so is the other concerning apostolical traditions by our former , upon that subject . as to that scruple , how the light should be infallible and divine , when the churches testimony is humane and fallible , it signifies nothing unless the light be only supposed to rise from the testimony , which his lordship denies . . the judgement of the fathers is inquired into concerning the present subject ; out of whom only irenaeus and st. augustin are produced , as affirming in many places , that the tradition of the church is sufficient to found christian faith even without scripture , and that for some hundreds of years after the canon of scripture was written . but must we stand only to the judgement of these two concerning the sense of the primitive church in this present controversie ? we may easily know the judgement of the fathers , if two such lame citations as these are , are sufficient to discover it . but your unhappiness is great in whatever you undertake : if you meddle with reason , you soon find how little it becomes you : if you fly to the fathers , they prove the greatest witnesses against you ; as will appear in this debate , if we first examine the citations you produce , and then shew how fully and clearly these very persons whom you have picked out of all the chorus do deliver themselves against you . the first citation is that known one , out of irenaeus , concerning those barbarous nations who believed without the scriptures , adhering to the tradition of the apostles , having salvation written without paper and ink. but what it is you would hence inferr , i cannot imagine , unless it be one of these two things ; . that if we had no scriptures left us , it would be necessary for us to believe on the account of apostolical tradition ; that is ▪ that the grounds of our faith were so clear and evident of themselves , that though they had never been written , yet if they had been conveyed by an unquestionable tradition from the apostles , there had lain an obligation on us to believe the doctrine of christ. but , is this our case ? hath not god infinitely better provided for us , when ( as your other witness st. augustine speaks ) whatever our saviour would have us read of his actions or speeches , he commanded his apostles and disciples as his hands to write . christian religion is now no cabala to us , god hath consigned his will over to us , by codicills of his own appointing ; and must we then be now in the like case , as if his will had never been written at all ? . but what if the barbarous nations did believe without the books of scripture ; what doth that prove , but only this ; that there may be sufficient reason to believe in christ where the scriptures are not known ? is that contrary to us who say , the last resolution of faith is into the doctrine of christ as attested by god : now if that attestation be sufficiently conveyed , there is an obligation to believe ; but withall we say , that to us who enjoy the scriptures as delivered down to us , the only certain and infallible conveyance of gods word to us is by them . so that the whole christian world is obliged to you for your civil comparison of them , with those barbarians who either enjoyed not the scriptures , or in probability were not able to make use of them , as being probably ignorant of the use of letters . . doth irenaeus in these words say , that even these barbarians did believe upon the infallible testimony of the present church ? no ; he mentions no such thing , but that they believed that tradition of doctrine which was delivered them from the apostles . i ask you then ; suppose at that time some honest but fallible persons should have gone into scythia , or some such barbarous places , and delivered the doctrine of the gospel , and attesting the matters of fact as being eye-witnesses of christs miracles , death , and resurrection , whether would these barbarians have been bound to believe or no ? if not , then for all i know , infidelity is a very excusable sin ; if they were , i pray tell me what it was their faith was resolved into ; was it an infallible testimony of fallible men ? and the same case is , of such who should preach the same doctrine from these eye-witnesses in another generation , and so on ; for although there might be no reason to question their testimony , yet i suppose you will not say , it is infallible ? so that still this makes nothing for your purpose . . who better understood irenaeus his mind , than himself ? let us therefore see what he elsewhere tells us is the foundation and pillar of our faith who have received the scriptures . doth not he tell us , but three chapters before this , that we have received the method or doctrine of our salvation , from those persons who preached it ; which by gods command they after delivered in the scriptures , which were to be the foundation and pilla● of our faith. could any thing be more fully spoken to our purpose than this is ? whereby he shews us , now the scriptures are consigned unto us , what that is which our faith must stand upon : not the infallibility of the church , but that word of god which is delivered to us . this therefore he elsewhere calls the vnmoveable canon of our faith , as s. augustine calls it divinam stateram , the divine ballance we must weigh the grounds of our belief in . by which we may guess , what little relief you are like to have from your second witness st. augustin . two citations you produce out of him ; and , i question not , but to make it appear , that neither of those testimonies do make for you ; and those very books afford us sufficient against you . the first is out of his books of christian doctrine , which lest we should think not pertinent , you care not to produce it ; but we must . a man who strengthens himself with faith , hope , and charity , and retains them unshaken , needs not the scriptures , but only to instruct others : for by these three , many live without books in a desert . his meaning is , that he who hath a principle of divine life within him , which discovers it self in the exercise of those three graces , needs not so much the external precepts , because that inward principle will carry him to actions suitable to it ; only , for convincing or instructing others , these books are continually useful ; but for themselves , those good men who first through the fury of their persecution were driven , and after others , who , in imitation of that piety they shewed there , did withdraw into remote places , did live in the exercise of their religion without them . but what is there in all this to inferr , that not the scriptures but the infallibility of the church is the foundation of faith ? doth st. augustine suppose that men may have faith , hope , and charity , without believing : or that men may believe without the scriptures , when in the precedent chapter he hath this remarkable expression concerning faith , that it will soon stumble , if the authority of the sacred scriptures be weakned : and doth not this imply that faith stands on the authority of the scriptures as its proper foundation ? but this were pardonable , if the very design of all that treatise did not so evidently refute all your pretensions , as nothing can do it more effectually . for can you possibly perswade any reasonable man to think , that st. augustine dreamt of any such thing , as the infallible testimony of the present church to be the ground of faith , who when he purposely discourseth concerning the christian doctrine , the principles of it , and the best means to understand it , never so much as mentions any such thing ; but on the contrary directs to no other but those you call moral and fallible means . for understanding the principles of christian doctrine , he shews us the several natures of things , some to be enjoyed , some to be used , and others both : that the main thing we are to enjoy is god , and therefore begins with him as our last end in whom our happiness lies , and then shews the means to come to this enjoyment of god , by explaining the principles of faith and the efficacy of it . in his second book he shews how we may come to the sense of scripture , and first discovers the nature of signs which represent things , and of letters which are signs of words , and since there are diversities of tongues , how necessary the translation of scripture is into them ( a good citation for you to justifie your bibles and prayers in an unknown language with ) and then shews what great reason there was , why there should be some doubtful and obscure places left in scripture , to conquer our pride by industry , and to keep the understanding from nauseating , which commonly slights things that are easily understood . then shews what preparation and disposition of soul is requisite for divine wisdome , and so comes to the understanding the scriptures : for which , first is requisite a serious and diligent reading of them ; in order to which he must carefully distinguish such as are canonical from such as are not ; and for judging of these , he never so much as mentions , much less sends us to the infallible testimony of the roman church , but bids us follow the authority of the most catholick churches among which those are , which are worthy to be call'd apostolical see's , and had epistles sent to them . what authority then had the church of rome to judge of canonical scriptures , more then ephesus , philippi , thessalonica , &c. to be sure then , st. augustin was not of our discourser's mind , as to the judgement of canonical books : and why should he send men to those churches which received the epistles , but that there they were like to meet with greater satisfaction as to the authenticalness of the copies of those epistles ? after this , he gives directions for understanding hard places , first by diligent reading and remembring the plainest places ; for in them ( saith he ) are found all those things which contain matters of faith and practice . an excellent citation for you for several purposes , especially when you would prove the obscurity of scripture , the necessity of an infallible judge , or your doctrine of fundamentals out of st. augustin . and then bids them compare obscure and easie places together , to understand the proprieties of words , to get knowledge in the tongues , to compare versions , antecedents and consequents , to be skil'd in all humane arts and sciences , these and several other instructions to the same purpose are the scope of his following books . would any one now , but t. c. have ventured so unluckily upon this treatise of st. augustin above all others , to prove the infallibility of the churches testimony as necessary to faith by ? could any protestant have delivered his mind more punctually and plainly than he doth ? and can you , or any one else that doth but look into that book , imagine that st. augustin ever imagined , that any such thing should ever be thought of in the world , as that the testimony of the church of rome must be owned as the infallible foundation of faith , and the infallible interpreter of scripture ? but this it is , to converse with the fathers only by retail , as they are delivered out in parcels to you with directions upon them what use they are for , by bellarmin and such artists as himself . this is , instead of quoting the fathers , to challenge them ; and you see they are not afraid to appear , though to your shame and confusion . but for all this you have a reserve in st. augustin still : let us see what quotation that is , which lies so in ambuscado behind the hedges , and is so loath to come out . there is good reason for so much reservedness ; for when we come to search , we find only bushes instead of souldiers . i have throughly examined the place you referr us to , and cannot meet any thing the least pertinent to your purpose , unless the question of the lawfulness of hereticks baptism , prove your churches testimony to be infallible . but it may be , it is but a venial mistake of a chapter or two , forward or backward , and there we may find it . which when i look into , i cannot but suspect that some protestant had trepanned you into this book and place of st. augustine ; there being scarce any book or place in him more begirt with arguments against you than this is . i was at first fearful you had quoted fathers at a peradventure ; but upon my further considering the place , i soon rectified that mistake . i will therefore reckon you up some of the most probable citations out of st. augustins books of baptism against the donatists , and choose which of them you please to prove the necessity of an infallible testimony of the present church as a foundation of faith by ? i suppose , that you intended is in the chapter but one following , where st. augustine cites that passage of cyprian , that we ought to recurre to the fountain , i. e. to apostolical tradition , and thence derive the channel into our own times ; this , saith st. augustin , is the best , and without doubt to be done . no doubt you think you owe me great thanks for finding out so apposite a place for you , so near that you intended ; but , before we have done with it , you will see what little reason you have to thank me for it : the place you see is cited by st. augustin out of cyprian in whose epistle it is , to pompeius against stephanus bishop of rome : we therefore consider , that it was stephen who pleaded custom and tradition , to which cyprian replies , whence comes this tradition , doth it descend from the lords authority , or from the commands and epistles of the apostles , for those things are to be done which are there written ? and again , if it be commanded in the gospel , or the epistles , and acts of the apostles , then let this holy tradition be observed . we see then what st. cyprian meant by his apostolical tradition , not one infallibly attested by the present church , but that is clearly derived from scripture as its fountain : and therefore brings in the foregoing words on purpose to correct the errours of traditions , that , as when channels are diverted to a wrong course , we must have recourse to the fountain ; so we must in all pretended traditions of the church , run up to the scriptures as the fountain-head . and whereas bellarmins only shift to avoid this place of cyprian , is , by saying that cyprian argued more errantium , i. e. could not defend one errour but by another ; see how different the judgements of st. augustine and bellarmin are about it : for st. augustin is so far from blaming it in him , that he saith , optimum est & sine dubitatione faciendum , i. e. it was the best and most prudent course to prevent errours . and in another place where he mentions that saying of cyprian , it is in vain for them to object custom , who are overcome by reason , as though custom were greater than truth ; or as though that were not to be followed in spiritual things , which is revealed by the holy ghost . this , saith st. augustin , is evidently true , because reason and truth is to be preferred before custom . he doth not charge these sayings on him as bellarmin doth , as part of his errours , but acknowledgeth them and disputes against his opinion out of those principles . and when before , the donatists objected the authority of st. cyprian in the point of rebaptization , what kind of answer doth st. augustine give them ? the very same that any protestant would give . who knows not that the sacred canonical scripture of the old and new testament is contained within certain bounds ; and ought so far to be prefer'd before the succeeding writings of bishops , that of that alone we are not to doubt or call in question any thing therein written , whether it be true and right or no. but , as he saith in the following words , all the writings since the confirmation of the canon of scripture are lyable to dispute , and even councils themselves to be examined and amended by councils . think you then , that st. augustin ever thought of a present infallibility in the church ? or if he did , he expressed it in as odd a manner as ever i read : how easily might he have stopt the mouths of the donatists with that one pretence of infallibility ? how impertinently doth he dispute through all those books , if he had believed any such thing ? it were easie to multiply the citations out of other books of st. austin , to shew how much he attributed to scripture , as the only rule of faith ; and consequently , how farr from believing your doctrine of infallibility . but these may suffice to shew , how unhappily you light on these books of st. augustine for the proof of your opinion out of the fathers . the last thing your discourser objects against his lordships way , is , if the church be fallible in the tradition of scripture , how can i ever be infallibly certain , that she hath not erred de facto , and defined some book to be the word of god , which really is not his word ? to which i answer . if you mean by infallible certainty , such a certainty as must have some infallible testimony for the ground of it , you beg the question : for i deny any such infallible testimony to be at all requisite for our believing the canon of scripture , and therefore you object that as an inconvenience , which i apprehend to be none at all . for i do not think it any absurdity to say , that i cannot believe upon some infallible testimony , that the church hath not erred in defining the canon of scripture . if by infallible certainty you mean such a certainty as absolutely excludes a possibility of deception ; you would do well , first to shew how congruous this is to humane nature in this present state , before you make such a certainty so necessary for any act of humane understanding . but , if by infallible certainty you mean only such as excludes all possibility of reasonable doubting upon the consideration of the validity and sufficiency of that testimony i am to believe the canon of scripture upon ; then i assert , that upon making the churches testimony to be fallible , it doth not at all follow , but that i may have so great a certainty as excludes the possibility of all reasonable doubting concerning the canon of scripture . for when i suppose the churches testimony fallible , i do not thereby understand , as though there were as great reason to suspect her deceived , as not , ( nay , i say there can be no reason to suspect her deceived ) ; but by that i understand only this , that the church hath not any supernatural infallibility given her in delivering such a testimony , or that such infallibility must be the foundation of believing the thing so delivered . for whether i suppose your particular church of rome , or the catholick church to be supernaturally infallible in her traditions , there will be the same difficulty returning , and an equal impossibility of vindicating our faith from the entanglements of a circle . for still the question unavoidably returns , from whence i believe such a supernatural infallibility in the church ? for in that it is supernatural it must suppose some promise on which it depends , that promise must be somewhere extant , and that can be no where but in scripture ; therefore when i am asked , why i believe the canon of the scripture to be true ; if i answer , because the tradition of the catholick church is infallible , the question presently returns , since humane nature is in it self fallible , whence comes the church to have this infallibility ? if i answer , by the assistance of gods spirit , i am presently asked , since no man by the light of nature and meer reason can be assured of this ; how know you that you are not deceived in believing such an assistance ? if to this i answer , because god who is infallible hath made this promise in his word , i am driven again to the first question , how i know this to be gods word , and must answer it as before , upon the infallible testimony of the catholick church . thus we see , how impossible it is to avoid a circle in the supposition of a supernatural infallibility in the churches tradition . but , if no more be meant but a kind of rational infallibility ( though those terms be not very proper ) i. e. so great evidence , as , if i question it , i may , upon equal grounds , question every thing which mankind yields the firmest assent to , because i cannot imagine , that so great a part of the wisest , and most considerative part of the world should be so grosly deceived in a matter of such moment ( especially supposing a divine providence ) then i freely and heartily assert , we have such a kind of rational infallibility ; or rather the highest degree of actual certainty concerning the truth of the canon of scripture ; and that the catholick church hath not de facto , erred in defining it . thus i have followed your discoursing christian through all his doubts and perplexities , and upon the result , can find no ground at all either of doubting concerning the scripture , or of believing the testimony of your church , or any , to be an infallible ground of faith. your next passage , is , to tell us how his lordships dedalian windings ( as you finely call them ) are disintricated : a happy man you are at squaring circles , and getting out of labyrinths . and thus it appears in the present case . for when his lordship had said , that the tradition of the church is too weak , because that is not absolutely divine ; you repeat over your already exploded proposition , that there may be an infallible testimony which is not absolutely divine ; which , when i have your faculty of writing things , which neither you , nor any one else can understand i may admit of ; but till then , i must humbly beg your pardon , as not being able to assent to any thing which i cannot understand , and have no reason to believe . and withall , contrary to your second answer , it appears , that if the testimony of the primitive , were absolutely divine , because infallible , the testimony of the present church , must be absolutely divine , if it be infallible . the rest of this chapter is spent in the examining some by-citations of men of your own side chiefly , and therefore it is very little material as to the truth or falshood of the present controversie ; yet , because you seem to triumph so much assoon as you are off the main business , i shall briefly return an answer to the substance of what you say . his lordship having asserted the tradition of the primitive apostolical church to be divine , and that the church of england doth embrace that as much as any church whatsoever , withall adds , that when s. augustine said , i would not believe the gospel , unless the authority of the catholick church moved me ; some of your own will not endure should be understood , save of the church in the time of the apostles only ; and some , of the church in general , not excluding after ages : but sure to include christ and his apostles . in your answer to this , you insult strangely over his lordship in two things . first , that he should say some , and mention but one in his margent . . that that one doth not say , what he cites out of him . to the first i answer , you might easily observe , the use his lordship makes of his margent , is not so much to bring clear and distinct proofs of what he writes in his book , but what hath some reference to what he there saies ; and therefore it was no absurdity for him to say in his book indefinitely some , and yet in his margent only to mention occham . for , when his lordship writ that , no doubt his mind was upon others , who asserted the same thing , though he did not load his margent with them . and , that you may see , i have reason for what i say , i hope you will not suppose his lordship unacquainted with the testimonies of those of your side , who do in terms assert this . that i may therefore free you from all kind of suspicion ; what think you of gerson , when , speaking of the greater authority of the primitive church than of the present : he adds . and by this means we come to understand , what s. augustine said , i would not believe the gospel , &c. for there , saith he , he takes the church for the primitive congregation of believers , who saw and heard christ , and were witnesses of what he did . is not this testimony plain enough for you ? but , besides this , we have another as evident , in whom are those very words , which his lordship , by a lapse of memory , attributes to occham : for durandus plainly sayes , that for what concerns the approbation of scripture by the church , it is understood only of the church which was in the apostles times , who were filled with the holy spirit , and withall , saw the miracles of christ , and heard his doctrine ; and on that account were convenient witnesses of all which christ did , or taught , that by their testimony , the scripture containing the actions and speeches of christ , might receive approbation . do you yet desire a testimony more express and full , than this is , of one who doth understand the church exclusively of all successive to the apostles , when he had , just before , produced that known testimony of s. augustine ? you see then , the bishop had some reason to say , some of your church asserted this to be s. augustine 's meaning ; and therefore your instances of some , where but one is meant , are both impertinent and scurrilous . for , where it is evidently known , there was but one , it were a soloecism to say some ; as to say , that some of the apostles betrayed christ , when it is known , that none but judas did it . but , if i should say , that some jesuits had writ for the killing of kings , and in the margent should cite mariana , no person conversant in their writings , would think it a soloecism ; for , though i produce him for a remarkable instance , yet that doth not imply , that i have none else to produce , but only that the mentioning of one , might shew i was not without proof of what i said . for your impudent oblique slander on the memory of that excellent prelate arch-bishop cranmer , when you say , if a catholick to disgrace the protestant primacy of canterbury , should say , some of them carried a holy sister lockt up in a chest about with them , and name cranmer only in the margent ; his memory is infinitely above your slyest detractions ; and withall , when you are about such a piece of criticism , i pray , tell me , what doth some of them relate to . is primacy the name of some men ? just as if one should disgrace the see of rome , and say , some of them have been atheists , magicians , debauched , &c. though , i confess , it were a great injury in this case , to cite but one in the margent , unless in pity to the reader ; yet , you may sooner vindicate some of them from a soloecism in language , when the see of rome went before , than any of them from those soloecisms in manners , which your own authours have complained of . but , say you , what if this singular-plural say no such thing , as the words alledged by the bishop signifie ? i have already granted it to have been a very venial mistake of memory in his lordship of occham for durandus ; in whom those very words are which are in the margent of his lordships book , as appears in the testimony already produced . i acknowledge therefore , that occham in that place of his dialogues , doth speak of the catholick church of all ages , comprehending the apostles and evangelists in it ; and in this sense he saith , that place of s. augustine is to be understood . but , what advantage this is to your cause , i cannot imagine . for , what if the catholick church be taken in that comprehensive sense , to include not only the apostles , but the church successively from their times ? doth it hence follow , that it is not day though the sun shines ? or rather , doth it not follow , that you are not so quick-sighted as you would seem to be ? and , whether his lordship or you come nearer the meaning of occham's words , let any one judge . for they who speak of the church in that comprehensive sense , do only suppose the infallibility to have been in the primitive apostolical church , but the successive church to be only the chanel of conveyance of that testimony down to us , and so they say no more than we do . thus driedo expounds that place of s. augustine ; who understands it of the catholick church , which was from the beginning of the christian faith , increasing according to the course of succession of bishops to these times , which church comprehends in it the colledge of apostles . do you think that these men did believe a present infallibility in the church ? if so , to what end are they so careful to carry it so high as the apostles ? whereas , on your principle we can have no assurance concerning any thing that the apostles did or said but only for the infallibility of the present church . you must therefore understand the present church exclusively of the apostolical church ; and therefore if s. augustine be understood in their sense , he is far enough from serving your purposes . but , say you , it is evident , that s. augustine must speak of the church in his time , because he speaks of that church which said to him , noli credere manichaeo , which was not true of the apostolical church ? but , why might not the apostolical church be a reason to s. augustine , not to believe manichaeus , because he found no footsteps of his doctrine in the records of that church ? again , suppose he means the present church , doth he mean the infallible testimony of the present church ? might not the testimony of the church , supposing it fallible , be sufficient for what s. augustine saith of it ? i doubt it not : and , you seem to have no great confidence in this testimony your self , when you add , that though it be a point of faith to believe that the church is infallible , in delivering scripture to us , yet it is not a point of faith , that her infallibility is proved out of the cited place of s. augustine . but , when you say , it is sufficient that it be clear and manifest out of the text it self , what text do you mean ? s. augustines , or the scriptures ? if s. augustines , you would do well to shew , by what engines you force infallibility out of his words ; if the scriptures , what becomes of our good motives of credibility ? when his lordship objects , that according to your principles , the tradition of the present church must be as infallible as that of the primitive , you very learnedly distinguish , that if he means , the one must be as truly and really infallible , quoad substantiam , as the other , you grant it : but if he mean , the one must be as highly and perfectly infallible , as the other , quoad modum , you deny it . very good still ! it seems there are higher and lower degrees in infallibility . i pray tell us , what that is which is more than infallible ? the present church ( you say ) is infallible , but not so highly and perfectly infallible , therefore there must be degrees in infallibility ; and since the lowest degree is infallible , that which is highly infallible , must be more than infallible . again , what difference is there between the substance and the mode in infallibility ; i had thought , the substance of infallibility had layn in the mode ; and i should rather think infallibility it self to be a mode of apprehension ▪ then talk of substances and modes in it . but , it may be , you mean such kind of modes of infallibility , as absolute and hypothetical . if you do so , explain your self by them ; and that we may better understand your meaning , shew us whether the church be at all capable of absolute infallibility ; if not ▪ what difference there is in degrees between the hypothetical infallibility of the present and primitive church , supposing both infallible in delivering their testimony , and no otherwise . for you yet again add , of the churches testimony being infallible , but not simply divine , but it is the infallible testimony of a desperate cause , to have but one bad shift , and to use it so often . because you would be apt to say , that upon his lordships rejecting the infallibility of tradition , he left no use at all of it ; he therefore tells you , notwithstanding that , it is serviceable for very good ends , that it induces infidels to the reading and consideration of scripture , and that it instructs novices , and doubters in the faith ; which two ends ( you say ) fall short of the end of tradition ; for ( say you ) it founds and establishes believers , even the greatest doctors of the church ; for which you cite again this same place of s. augustine . but did not his lordship tell you , that some of your own understood that very place , either of novices or infidels : for which , besides the testimony of some of your own party , he adds this reason , because the words immediately before are , if thou find one qui evangelio nondum credit , which did not yet believe the gospel , what wouldst thou do to make him believe ? ego vero non , &c. to which you very prudently say nothing . concerning almayn's opinion , that we are first , and more , bound to believe the church than the scripture ; you would seem in terms to disavow it , though very faintly ; it is not altogether true ; and hope to salve it by a distinction of priority of time and nature : and you acknowledge , that in priority of nature we are first bound to believe the church , and , i suppose , in priority of time too , if we believe the scripture for the churches sake : yet , you would not have it said , that we are more bound to believe the church than scripture ; but it is not what you would have properly said , but what follows from that antecedent , which jacobus almayn puts . it is certain , saith he , that we are bound to believe all things contained in the sacred canon , upon that account alone , because the church believes them ; therefore we are first , and more , bound to believe the church than the scripture , which is so evident a consequence , that nothing but shame would make you deny it . touching almayn's and gerson's reading compelleret for commoveret , his lordship saith , that almayn falsifies the text notoriously ; you say , no ; but you had rather charitably think , they both read it so in some copies ; his lordship produceth a very ancient m.s. for the common reading , you none at all for that , but only the concurrent testimonies of some schoolmen , who must be confessed to be excellent criticks , and well versed in ancient m.ss. unless where they met with a little greek , or some hard latin words ; and among whom , the mistake of one would pass current for want of examining copies , let the reader therefore judge , whether judgement be more probable : but , i think it not worth while to say more about it . in your vindication of the authority of canus , you make use of a very silly piece of sophistry ; for , say you , though he make infidels and novices in the faith , to be convinced by the authority of the church ; yet , you say , it doth not follow , that he makes the said authority a fallible , but a certain and sure way to make them believe it . but , . the question is , whether canus doth understand that place of s. augustine , of infidels and novices or no ? . suppose he sayes , it is a sure way , doth it therefore follow , that it is an infallible way ? is nothing certain but what is infallible ? i hope you are certain that the church of rome is the cacholick church ; but , are you infallible that she is so ? if you advance all certainty to infallibility , or bring down all infallibility to certainty , every christian is as infallible as your church is : for , i make no question , but that every good christian is certain of the grounds and principles of his religion . the same thing you return upon again ( after to little purpose you multiply words about canus and stapleton's testimonies . ) for , say you , because s. augustine speaks of a sure way , therefore he must mean an infallible way , as though what was not supernaturally infallible , was presently unsure . i pray , tell me , are you sure that two and two make four ? yet , i hope you will not say , you are supernaturally infallible that they do so . i hope , you are sure , there is a pope at rome , and a goodly colledge of cardinals there ; but , are you infallible in this ? it is not then certainly the same , to deny a thing to be infallible , and to make it unsure : and , you are either very weak , or very wilful , in saying so . in what sense this so much controverted place of s. augustine , is to be understood , will be afterwards discussed ; and whether it be intended wholly for infidels or no : only i shall take notice now , how , in the last words of this chapter , you would again inferr infallibility from undoubted certainty . for , say you , the church , in s. augustine's time , esteemed her self undoubtedly certain , that the gospel was the infallible word of god ; for otherwise she might be deceived her self , and deceive others in commanding them to believe that to be god's word , which was only the word of man : but , what is it you would inferr from all this ? for we believe the church as undoubtedly certain , as may be , that the scriptures are god's word ; yet we are far enough from believing that her testimony now is supernaturally infallible . chap. vii . the protestant way of resolving faith. several principles premised in order to it . the distinct questions set down , and their several resolution given . the truth of matters of fact , the divinity of the doctrine , and of the books of scripture , distinctly resolved into their proper grounds . moral certainty a sufficient foundation for faith , and yet christian religion proved to be infallibly true. how apostolical tradition made by his lordship a foundation of faith. of the certainty we have of the copies of scripture , and the authority of them . s. augustine's testimony concerning church-authority , largely discussed and vindicated . of the private spirit , and the necessity of grace . his lordship's way of resolving faith vindicated . how far scripture may be said to be known by its own light. the several testimonies of bellarmine , brierly , and hooker , cleared . having thus far followed you through all your intricacies and windings , and shewed , with what diligence and subtilty you would juggle men out of their faith , under a pretence of infallibility ; it will be necessary for the vindicating our doctrine , and the clearing this important controversie with all evidence and perspicuity , to lay down those certain grounds which we build our faith upon . and , although it be one of the greatest of your modern artifices to perswade the world , that protestants have no certain grounds of faith at all , yet i doubt not but to make it evident , that the way taken by the most judicious and considerative protestants , is as satisfactory and reasonable , as i have already made it appear , that yours is unreasonable and ridiculous . which i shall the rather do , because , through the want of a clear and distinct apprehension of the true way of resolving faith , no controversie in religion hath been more obscure and involved , than this hath been . therefore for our more distinct method of proceeding , i shall first endeavour to prevent misunderstanding , by premising several things which are necessary for a through opening the state of the controversie , and then come to the resolution of it . the things then i would premise , are these following : . that we enquire not after the reason , why we assent to what is divinely revealed , but after the reason why we believe any thing to be a divine revelation . therefore when men speak of the last resolution of faith into the veracity of god revealing , they speak that which is undoubtedly true , but it reacheth not our present enquiry . i freely grant , that the ultimate reason why any thing is believed , is upon the testimony of him from whom it comes ; and the greater the knowledge and fidelity is , of him whose testimony i believe , the stronger my assent is , supposing i have sufficient evidence that it is his testimony . but that is our present question , for it being taken for granted among all christians , that god's testimony is absolutely infallible , there can no dispute arise concerning the ground of resolving faith , supposing god's revelation to be sufficiently known . for no one questions but god's veracity however discovered , is a sufficient ground for faith ; but all the question is , how we come to know wherein this veracity of god doth discover it self ; or what those things are which are immediately revealed by him . therefore to tell us , that the resolution of faith is into gods infallible testimony , without shewing on what account this testimony is to be beleeved to be from god , is , to tell us that which no one doubts of , and to escape that which is the main question . for in case isaac should have denyed submission to his fathers will when he went to be sacrificed , till he could be satisfied concerning the lawfulness of that action which his father went about ; do you think it had been satisfactory to him , if abraham had told him , that god had power to relax his own laws , and therefore he need not question the lawfulness of the action ; might not isaac have presently answered , that he did not question , that what god commanded was lawful , but that he desired , was , some evidence that he had a revelation for what he did . and the answer to this had been only pertinent and satisfactory . so that he might have no reason to question it , although he did not believe any thing more then common fidelity in his fathers testimony . for god never ( when revelations were most common ) thought it necessary to multiply revelations so far , as to make one necessary to attest another ; but that revelation which was communicated to one was obligatory to all concerned in it , though they could have nothing but moral certainty for it . by this it appears , that when we now speak of the resolution of faith , though the utmost reason of our assent , is , that infallibility which is supposed in divine testimony , yet the nearest and most proper resolution of it , is , into the grounds inducing us to believe that such a testimony is truly divine , and the resolution of this cannot be into any divine testimony without a process in infinitum . . that when we speak of the resolution of faith , by faith we understand a rational and discursive act of the mind . for faith being an assent upon evidence , or reason inducing the mind to assent , it must be a rational and discursive act ; and such a one that one may be able to give an account of to another . and this account which men are able to give why they do believe , or on what ground they do it , is that which we call resolving faith. and by this it appears , that whatever resolves faith into its efficient cause , ( which some improperly call the testimony of the spirit ) though it may be true , yet comes not home to the question . for if by the testimony of the spirit be meant that operation of the spirit whereby saving faith is wrought in us , then it gives no account from the thing to be believed , why we assent to it , but only shews how faith is wrought in us by way of efficiency ; which is rather resolving the question about the necessity of grace than the grounds of faith. our question is not then , concerning the necessity of infused habits of grace , but of those rational inducements which do incline the mind to a firm assent . for faith in us , however it is wrought , being a perswasion of the mind , it is not conceivable how there should be any discursive act of the mind , without some reason causing the mind to assent to what is propounded to it . for without this , faith would be an unaccountable thing , and the spirit of revelation would not be the spirit of wisdom ; and religion would be exposed to the contempt of all unbelievers , if we were able to give no other account of faith , then that it is wrought in us by the spirit of god. when we speak therefore of the resolving faith , we mean , what are the rational inducements to believe , or what evidence there is in the object propounded to make us firmly assent to it . . according to the different acts of faith , there must be assigned a different resolution of faith. for every act being rational and discursive , must have its proper grounds belonging to it ; unless we suppose that act elicited without any reason for it , which is incongruous with the nature of the humane understanding . there are then in the question of resolution of faith , these three questions to be resolved . first , why i believe those things to be true which are contained in the book called the scripture ? . why i believe the doctrine contained in that book to be divine ? . why i believe the books themselves to be of divine revelation ? now every one of these questions admits of a different way of resolution ; as will appear by the handling each of them distinctly . . if i be asked , on what grounds i believe the things to be true which are contained in scripture ? my answer must be , from the greatest evidence of truth , which things of that nature are capable of . if therefore the persons who are supposed to have writ these things , were such who were fully acquainted with what they writ of ; if they were such persons who cannot be suspected of any design to deceive men by their writings ; and if i be certain that these which go under the name of their writings , are undoubtedly theirs ; i must have sufficient grounds to believe the truth of them . now that the writers of these things cannot be suspected of ignorance , appears by the time and age they writ in , when the story of these things was new , and such multitudes were willing enough to have contradicted it , if any thing had beeen amiss : besides , some of the writers had been intimately conversant with the person and actions of him whom they writ most of . that they could have no intent to deceive , appears from the simplicity and candour both of their actions and writings , from their contempt of the world , and exposing themselves to the greatest hazards to bear witness to them . that these are the very same writings , appears by all the evidence can be desired ; for we have as great , if not much greater reason to believe them to be the authors of the books under their names , than any other writers of any books whatsoever , both because the matters are of greater moment , and therefore men might be supposed more inquisitive about them ; and that they have been unanimously received for 〈◊〉 from the very time of their being first written , ( except some very few , which upon strict examination were admitted too ) and we find these very books cited by the learned christians under these names in that time , when it had been no difficulty to have found out several of the original copy's themselves . when therefore they were universally received by christians , never doubted of by jews , or heathen philosophers : we have as great evidence for this first act of faith , as it is capable of . and he is unreasonable who desires more . . if i be asked , why i believe the doctrine contained in these books to be divine ? i must give in two things for answer . . that in the age when the doctrine was delivered , there was sufficient reason to believe it divine . . that if there was sufficient reason then , we have sufficient reason now . . that in the age when the doctrine was delivered , there was sufficient reason to believe it divine ; supposing then , that we already believe upon the former answer , that all the matters of fact be true , i answer , that if christ did such unparalle●d miracles , and rose from the dead , they who heard his doctrine had reason to believe it to be of god : and this i suppose the greatest infidel would not deny , if himself had been one of the witnesses of his actions and resurection . . that if they had reason then , we have so now ; because tradition to us doth only supply the want of our senses , as to what christ did and spake ; i. e. that tradition is a kind of derivative and perpetuated sensation to us ; it being of the same use to us now which our eyes and ears had been , if we had been actually present when christ delivered his doctrine and wrought his miracles . which that we may better understand , we may consider what the use of our senses had been , if we had been then present ; and consequently what the use of tradition is now to us . now it is apparent , that the use of the senses , to those who saw the miracles and heard the doctrine of christ , was not to give any credibility to either of them , but only to be the means of conveying to them those things which might induce them to believe ; the same doth tradition now to us , it doth not in it self make the doctrin more credible , but supplies the use of our senses in a certain conveyance of those things to us which were the motives to believe then . for the motives to faith both to them and us are the same , only the manner of conveyance is different ; but our case is much the same with those who lived in the same age , but by reason of distance of place could not be personally present at what christ did or said ; now if those persons were obliged to believe , and had sufficient reason for faith , who by reason of distance of place could not exercise their senses about christs doctrine and miracles , the same reason and obligation have we , who cannot do it by reason of distance of time . and if there be any advantage on either side , it is on ours , because though the tradition doth not in it self give any credibility to the doctrine , yet there are such circumstances accompanying this tradition , which may much facilitate our belief above theirs : because by such a continued tradition we have an evidence of the efficacy of this doctrine , which had so continual a power as to engage so many in all ages since its first appearance to be the propagators and defenders of it . and therefore this hath very much the advantage of the report of any credible persons in that age , who might report to any at distance the miracles and doctrine of christ. and this is the way of resolution of faith , which the scripture it self directs us to . how shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation , which at the first began to be spoken by the lord , and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him : god also bearing them witness both with signs and wonders , and with diverse miracles and gifts of the holy ghost , according to his own will ? where we plainly see , the resolution of faith as to the divinity of the doctrine was into the miracles wrought for the confirmation of it ( which was the proper witness or testimony of the holy ghost ) but the means of conveyance was by the tradition of those who were eye and ear-witnesses of what christ said or did . as therefore it was not supposed necessary for them who saw the miracles of christ , either to have some inward testimony of the spirit , or some external infallible testimony of the church , to assure them that these miracles were really done by christ , but god left them to the judgement of sense ; so proportionably neither of those two is now necessary for the resolution of our faith , but god instead of the judgement of sense leaves us to the evidence of tradition . object . but all this is ( you say ) no more then moral certainty , which being fallible , we cannot from thence be assured that christian religion is infallibly true ? answ. this being the great bug-bear wherewith you would fright men out of their religion , i shall in this place shew , that it serves only to scare fools and children with . for , . what greater certainty had they who lived in the time of christ and his apostles , and did not see their miracles ? had they , or could they have , any more than this you call moral certainty ? and , do you really think , that all such could not be sufficiently assured , that christian religion was infallibly true ? . moral certainty may be a sufficient foundation for the most firm assent ; and therefore , if the matter to be believed be the infallible truth of a doctrine upon suitable evidence , though we have now but moral certainty of that evidence , the assent may be firm to such a doctrine as infallible . and therefore the grand mistake lyes here , as though our faith were resolved finally into this moral certainty ; or , as if the faith of those who saw christ's miracles , were resolved into their eyes , and not into the miracles ; for as their eyes were but the means of conveyance of that evidence which was infallible , so is that tradition to us by which we have our certainty of those evidences of the infallible truth of christian religion . and we are further to consider that the nature of certainty is not so much to be taken from the matters themselves , as from the grounds inducing the assent ; that is , whether the things be mathematical , physical , or moral ; if there be no reason to question the grounds of belief , the case is all one as to the nature of the assent . so that moral certainty may be as great as mathematical and physical , supposing as little reason to doubt in moral things as to their natures , as in mathematical and physical as to theirs . therefore this great quarrel about moral certainty is very unreasonable ; unless it be proved , that there is no cause of firm assent upon moral grounds ; now , if the cause of the assent may be , as equal and proportionable to their nature in moral things , as in mathematical ; there may be as firm an assent in the one , as in the other , as i have already shewed . for which , this reason is plain and evident , that certainty implies the taking away all suspicion of doubt : but there can be no taking away all suspicion of doubt in mathematical things , without mathematical evidence ; but in moral things , all suspicion of doubt is removed upon moral evidence , and therefore the certainty may be as great in the assent to one as the other . thus , we see , how unjustly , and how much to the dishonour of religion you quarrel with moral evidence , as an uncertain thing . but , i answer yet further , . that the greatest assurance we can desire , that any religion is infallibly true , is from moral certainty ; and that upon these three grounds . . because the grounds of all religion are capable of no more . . because the highest evidence of any religion must depend upon it . . because this , in it self , may evidently demonstrate , that christian religion is infallibly true. . there can be no greater than this moral certainty of the main foundations of all religion , which are , the being of god , and immortality of souls ; without the supposition of which , there can be no such thing as infallibility in the world ; and therefore from thence i may easily prove , that there can be no more than moral certainty of the existence of a deity . for , if the very notion of infallibility doth suppose a god , then you cannot infallibly prove that there is one ( in your sense of infallibility ) for then you must beg the question , and suppose that already to be , which you are proving the existence of : now that , infallibility in us doth suppose the existence of god , appears most evidently , because , mans understanding being of it self fallible , it cannot be supposed in any thing infallible , without the supernatural assistance of a being infallible , which can be nothing else but god. but , if you think you have infallible proofs , produce them , and convince the world of atheists by them : we acknowledge we have as great evidence and certainty , as humane nature is capable of , of a being of such a nature as god is , from the consideration of his works ; but all this still is moral certainty ; for the grounds are neither mathematically demonstrative , nor supernaturally infallible . what folly and madness then is it for your party to cry out so much against moral certainty in religion , when the foundation of all religion is capable of no more ; and may not this justly increase our suspicion , that under moral certainty you strike at the foundation of all religion ? . suppose god gives the most infallible evidence of any religion , it is not possible , but that some who are bound to believe that religion , can have any more than moral certainty of it . and , for all that , i know the greatest physical certainty is as liable to question as moral ; there being as great a possibility of deception in that , as a suspicion of doubt in this , and oft-times greater . what advantage then had those who stood by , and saw the miracles of moses and christ , above those who did not , but had the report of them conveyed to them in an unquestionable manner ? besides , it is apparent , god's great aim in any religion , is most at the good of those who can have only a moral certainty of the great evidences of the truth of that religion ; because it being god's intention , that the religion delivered by him , should be not meerly for the benefit of those very few persons who could be present at such things , but for the advantage of those incomparably greater numbers , who , by reason of distance of place and age , could not be present ; it would argue a strange want of provision for mens faith , unless moral certainty were sufficient . only you indeed will suppose that which god himself never thought necessary , viz. an infallible testimony of the present church ; but to what good purposes you have introduced this , hath largely appeared already . . moral certainty yields us sufficient assurance , that christian religion is infallibly true : and that i prove , because moral certainty may evidently shew us the credibility of the christian religion , which you deny not , nor any else ; and , that from the credibility of it , the infallible truth of it may be proved , will appear by these two things : . that where there is evident credibility in the matter propounded , there doth arise upon men an obligation to believe : and that is proved both by your own confession ( as to the churches infallibility being believed on the motives of credibility ) and from gods intention , in giving such motives , which was , to perswade them to believe , as appears by multitudes of places of scripture ; and withall , though the meer credibility of the motives might at first suppose some doubts concerning the infallibility of the doctrine , yet it is not consistent with any doubt , as to the infallibility of the obligation to believe ; because there can be no other reason assigned of these motives of credibility , than the inducing on men an obligation to faith. . that where there is such an obligation to believe , we have the greatest assurance , that the matter to be believed is infallibly true : which depends upon this manifest proof , that god cannot oblige men to believe a lye ; it being repugnant to all our conceptions of the veracity and goodness of god , to imagine , that god should require from men ( on the pain of eternal damnation , for not believing ) to believe something as infallibly true , which is really false . thus , you see , what a clear and pregnant demonstration we have of the infallible truth of christian religion from moral certainty ; how injurious then have those of your party been , who have charged this opinion of believing upon moral certainty , with betraying religion , and denying christian religion to be infallibly true. thus much for this grand objection ; i now come to the last question considerable in the resolution . . on what account do i believe these particular books of scripture to be gods word ? which may admit of a double sense : . on what account i do believe the doctrine contained in these books to be gods word ? . on what account i do believe the books containing this doctrine to be gods word ? as to the first , i have answered already , viz. upon the same rational evidence which god gave , that the testimony of those who delivered , was a divine and infallible testimony : to the second , i answer in these two propositions : . that the last resolution of faith is not into the infallibility of the instrument of conveyance , but into the infallibility of that doctrine , which is thereby conveyed to us . for the writing of this doctrine is only the condition by which this revelation is made manifest to us ; it being evident from the nature of the thing , that the writing of a divine revelation , is not necessary for the ground and reason of faith , as to that revelation : because men may believe a divine revelation without it ; as is not only evident in the case of the patriarchs , but of all those , who in the time of christ , and the apostles , did believe the truth of the doctrin of christ before it was written . if therefore the writing be only the condition of the manifestation of the object in a certain way to us , the ground and reason of faith , is not to be resolved into that which is only the mode of our knowledge of the object to be believed ; but into that which is properly the ground and reason why we believe that doctrine or revelation to be divine , which is contained in those books . and this is still the case of all illiterate persons , who cannot resolve their faith properly into the scripture , but into the doctrine delivered them out of scripture . hence we may discern the difference between the formal object , and the rule of faith ; the formal object is that evidence which is given of the infallibility of the testimony of those who delivered the doctrine ; the infallible rule of faith to us , is the scripture , viz. that which limits and bounds the material objects of faith , which we are bound to believe ; and this doth therefore discover to us what those things are , which on the account of the formal object , we are obliged to believe . . those who believe the doctrine of scripture to be divine , have no reason to question the infallible conveyance of that doctrine to us , in those books we call the scripture . therefore , whatever things we are to believe in order to salvation , we have as great evidence as we can desire , that they are infallibly conveyed to us . . if the doctrine of christ be true and divine , then all the promises be made were accomplished : now , that was one of the greatest , that his spirit should lead his apostles into all truth ; can we then reasonably think , that if the apostles had such an infallible assistance of the spirit of god with them , in what they spake in a transitory way to them who heard them , that they should want it in the delivering those records to the church , which were to be the standing monuments of this doctrine to all ages and generations . if christ's doctrine therefore be true , the apostles had an infallible assistance of god's spirit ; if they had so in delivering the doctrine of christ by preaching , nothing can be more unreasonable , than to imagine such should want it , who were employed to give an account to the world of the nature of this doctrine , and of the miracles which accompanied christ and his apostles . so that it will appear an absurd thing to assert , that the doctrine of christ is divine , and to question , whether we have the infallible records of it . it is not pertinent to our question , in what way the spirit of god assisted them that wrote , whether by immediate suggestion of all such things which might be sufficiently known without it ; and whether in some things which were not of concernment , it might not leave them to their own judgement ; ( as in that place , when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs , when , no doubt , god's spirit knew infallibly whether it was , but thought not fit to reveal it ) whether in some lighter circumstances the writers were subject to any inadvertencies ( the negative of which is more piously credible ) whether meer historical passages needed the same infallible assistance , that prophetical and doctrinal ; these things , i say , are not necessary to be resolved , it being sufficient in order to faith , that the doctrine we are to believe , as it was infallibly delivered to the world , by the preaching of christ and his apostles , so it is infallibly conveyed to us in the books of scripture . . because these books were owned for divine by those persons and ages , who were most competent judges , whether they were so or no. for the age of the apostles was sufficiently able to judge , whether those things which are said to be spoken by christ , or written by the apostles , were really so or no. and we can have no reason at all to question , but what was delivered by them , was infallibly true . now , from that first age we derive our knowledge concerning the authority of these books , which being conveyed to us in the most unquestionable and universal tradition , we can have no reason in the world to doubt , and therefore the greatest reason firmly to assent , that the books we call the scripture , are the infallible records of the word of god. and thus much may suffice in general concerning the protestant way of resolving faith : i now return to the examination of what you give us by way of answer to his lordship's discourse . the first assault you make upon his lordship , is , for making apostolical tradition a ground of faith , but because your peculiar excellency lyes in the involving plain things ; the best service i can do , is to lay things open as they are ; by which means we shall easily discern where the truth lyes . i shall therefore first shew , how far his lordship makes apostolical tradition a ground of faith , and then consider what you have to object against it . in that section which your margent referrs to , all that he sayes of it , is , that the voice and tradition of that church which included in it apostles , disciples , and such as had immediate revelation from heaven , was divine , and the word of god from them is of like validity written or delivered . and , as to this tradition ( he saith ) there is abundance of certainty in it self , but how far it is evident to us , shall after appear . at the end of the next n. . he saith , that there is double authority , and both divine , that confirms scripture to be the word of god. tradition of the apostles delivering it , and the internal worth and argument in the scripture , obvious to a soul prepared by the present churches tradition , and gods grace . but , n. . he saith , that this apostolical tradition is not the sole and only means to prove scripture divine , but the moral perswasion , reason , and force of the present church , is ground enough for any one to read the scripture , and esteem reverently of it . and this once done , the scripture hath then in and home-arguments enough to put a soul that hath but ordinary grace , out of doubt , that the scripture is the word of god , infallible and divine . i suppose his lordships meaning may be comprized in these particulars . . that to those who lived in the apostolical times the tradition of scripture , by those who had an infallible testimony , was a sufficient ground of their believing it infallibly true . . that though the conveyance of that tradition to us be not infallible , yet it may be sufficient to raise in us a high esteem and veneration for the scripture . . that those who have this esteem for the scripture , by a through studying and consideration of it may undoubtedly believe that scripture is the divine and infallible word of god. this i take to be the substance of his lordships discourse . we now come to examine what you object against him . your first demand is , how comes apostolical primitive tradition to work upon us , if the present church be fallible ? which i shall answer by another , how come the decrees of councils to work upon you , if the reporters of those decrees be fallible ? if you say , it is sufficient that the decree it self be infallible , but it is not necessary that the reporter of those decrees should be so ; the same i say concerning the apostolical tradition of scripture , though it were infallible in their testimony , yet it is not necessary that the conveyance of it to us should be infallible . and if you think your self bound to believe the decrees of general councils as infallible , though fallibly conveyed to you ; why may not we say the same concerning apostolical tradition ? whereby you may see , though tradition be fallible , yet the matter conveyed by it , may have its proper effect upon us . your next inquiry ( if i understand it ) is to this sense , whether apostolical tradition be not then as credible as the scriptures ? i answer freely ( supposing it equally evident ) what was delivered by the apostles to the church by word or writing , hath equal credibility ? you attempt to prove , that there is equal evidence , because the scripture is only known by the tradition of the church , to be the same that was recommended by the apostolical church , which you have likewise for apostolical tradition . but , . do you mean the same apostolical tradition here or no , which the arch-bishop speaks of , i. e. that act of the apostles , whereby they delivered the doctrine of christ upon their testimony to the world . if you mean this tradition , for my part , i do not understand it as any thing really distinct from the tradition of the scripture it self . for , although i grant , that the apostles did deliver that doctrine by word as well as writing , yet if that tradition by word had been judged sufficient , i much question whether we had ever had any written records at all . but , because of the speedy decay of an oral tradition , if there had been no standing records , it pleased god in his infinite wisdom and goodness , to stir up some fit persons to digest those things summarily into writing , which otherwise would have been exposed to several corruptions in a short time . for we see presently in the church , notwithstanding this , how suddenly the gnosticks , valentinians , manichees and others , did pretend some secret tradition of christ or his apostles distinct from their writings . when therefore you can produce as certain evidence any apostolical tradition distinct from scripture , as we can do , that the books of scripture were delivered by the apostles to the church , you may then be hearkened to , but not be before . . we have other waies to judge of the identity of the copies of scripture ( which we have ) with those delivered by the primitive church , besides the testimony of the present church . and the judgement of the present church considered meerly as such can be no argument to secure any man concerning the integrity and incorruption of the books of scripture . we do therefore justly appeal to the ancient copies , and m. ss . which confirm the incorruption of ours . but , say you , what infallible certainty have we of them , besides church tradition ? very wisely said in several respects , as though no certainty less than infallible , could serve mens turn as to ancient copies of scripture , and as though your church could give men infallible certainty which copy's were ancient and which were not . but for our parts , we should not be at all nearer any certainty much less infallibility concerning the authenticalness of any ancient copy's , because your church declared it self for them ; neither can we imagine it at all necessary in the examination of ancient copy's to have any infallible certainty at all of them . for as well you may pretend it as to any other authours , when all that we look after in such copy's is only that evidence which things of that nature are capable of . but you make his lordship give as wise an answer to this question of yours ; they may be examined and approved by the authentical autographa's of the very apostles . where is it that this answer is given by his lordship ? if you may be allowed to make questions and answers too , no doubt , the one will be as wise as the other . but i suppose you thought , nothing could be said pertinent in this case , but what you make his lordship say : and then by the unreasonableness of that answer , because none of these autographa's are supposed extant , and because if they were so , all men could not be infallibly certain of them , you think you have sufficient advantage against your adversary , because thereby it would appear there can be no certainty of scripture but from the authority of your church . to which because it may seem to carry on your great design of rendring religion uncertain , i shall return a particular answer . . supposing we could have no certainty concerning the copy's of scripture but from tradition , this doth not at all advantage your cause , unless you could prove , that no other tradition but that of your church can give us any certainty of it . give me leave then to make this supposition , that god might not have given this supernatural assistance to your church , which you pretend makes it infallible , whether men through the vniversal consent of persons of the christian church in all ages , might not have been undoubtedly certain , that the scripture we have , was the same delivered by the apostles ? i. e. whether a matter of fact , in which the whole christian world was so deeply engaged , that not only their credit , but their interest was highly concerned in it , could not be attested by them in a credible manner ? which is as much as to ask , whether the whole christian world was not at once besotted and infatuated in ●he grossest manner , so as to suffer the records of those things which concerned their eternal welfare , to be imbezeled , falsified , or corrupted , so as to mistake them for apostolical writings , which were nothing so . if it be not then credible , that the christian world should be so monstrously imposed upon , and so grosly deceived , then certainly the vniversal tradition of the society may yield unquestionable evidence to any inquisitive person , as to the integrity and incorruption of the body of scriptures . and if it may yield such evidence , why doth it not so ? when we see this was the very case of the christian world in all ages . some writings were delivered to the church of the age they lived in , by the apostles ; these writings were so delivered , as that the christians understood they were of things of more concernment to them than the whole world was ; these writings were then received , embraced , and publickly read ; these writings were preserved by them so sacred and inviolable , that it was accounted a crime of the highest nature to deliver the copy's of them into the hands of the heathen persecutors ; these writings were still owned by them as divine , and the rule and standard of faith , these were appealed to in all disputes among them , these were preserved from the attempts of hereticks , vindicated from the assaults of the most learned infidels , transcribed into the books of the most diligent christians , transmitted from one generation to another , as the most sacred depositum of heaven ; and yet is it possible , to suppose that these writings should be extorted out of their hands by violence , abused under their eyes by fraud , or suffered to be lost by negligence . yet no other way can be imagined , why any should suspect the books of scripture which we have are not the same with those delivered by the apostles . all which are such unreasonable suppositions , that they could hardly enter into any head but yours , or such whose cause you manage in these disputes ; the most profligate atheists , or most unreasonable scepticks . if then we entertain but mean and ordinary thoughts of the christians of all ages , if we look upon them as silly men abused into a religion by fraud and imposture ; yet we cannot doubt , but that these persons were careful to preserve the records of that religion , because they were so diligent in the study of it , so venturous for it , such enemies to the corrupters of it , so industrious in propagating the knowledge of it to their friends and posterity . do you think our nation did ever want an infallible testimony to preserve the magna charta , supposing no authentick record of it kept in the publick archives of the nation ? would not mens interest make them careful to preserve it inviolable , especially considering the frequency of causes whose decision depends upon it , and the dispersion of the copy's abroad , and the diligence of such whose profession leads them to look to such things . and will not the same reasons hold in a greater measure for the integrity and incorruption of scriptures ? do not the eternal concerns of all christians depend upon those sacred records , that , if those be not true , they were of all men most miserable ? were not innumerable copy's of these writings suddenly dispersed abroad , and all christians accounted it a part of their religion to search and enquire into them ? hath there not alwayes been a succession of diligent and faithful persons , whose office and profession it hath been to read , interpret , and vindicate these books ? and who have left excellent monuments of their endeavours in this nature ? is it then possible to suppose all those copy's at once imbezeled , all those christians in one age deceived , all those divines so secure and negligent that there should be any considerable alteration , much less any total depravation of these writings ? when once i see a whole corporation consent to burn their publick charter , and substitute a new one in the place of it , and this not be suspected or discovered ; when i shall see a magna charta foisted , and neither king nor people be sensible of such a cheat ; when all the world shall conspire to deceive themselves and their children : i may then suspect such an imposture as to the scripture ; but not before . and will not all this perswade you , that there is no necessity of making your church infallible in order to our certainty , that we have the same books of scripture which were delivered by the apostles ? if not , the next news i shall expect to hear from you , will be , that we can have no certainty of the being of god , or the foundation of all religion , but from your churches infallibility ; there being every jot as much reason to say , that all mankind should be deceived into the belief of a deity by some cunning politicians , as that all christians should be deceived as to the belief of such books to be scripture which were universally corrupted ; and if you understood consequences you would have urged one assoon as the other . but still remember , into what precipices this good doctrine of infallibility leads you . but it may be your meaning is more gentle and easie , than to suppose there could be no certainty as to all the books being the same , but only that we cannot have any infallible certainty that there are no corruptions crept into these books which we have , but from your churches testimony . to which i answer , . that there is no reason to suppose this should be your meaning . . supposing it were your meaning , there is no reason in the thing . . there is no reason to suppose this should be your meaning ; for you are speaking of such things which are necessary to be believed , and therefore are properly objects of faith , but that there are no kind of corruptions crept into the copy's of scripture , cannot with you be an object of faith. for those of your party do some of them confess and others contend , that there are many corruptions crept into the hebrew text of the old testament , and the greek of the new ; and that there are abundance of corruptions in your vulgar latin is not only abundantly proved by our writers , but acknowledged by the learnedst of your own , and irrefragably demonstrated by the different editions of sixtus and clement . suppose this were your meaning , there were no reason in the thing ; for , . your church cannot infallibly assure us , there are no corruptions . . we may be sufficiently assured of it without the testimony of your church . . your church cannot assure us at all , much less infallibly that there are no such corruptions . for what reason can there be , why we should rely on the judgement of only a part of the whole society of christians , and that part at great opposition with many other considerable churches ; must we then believe your church where it agrees with , or it differs from the rest ? if only where it agrees with the rest , then it is not the testimony of your church we rely on , but the vniversal consent of all : if where it differs , shew us some reason , why we should believe your church in opposition to all others . especially , . when we consider what contradiction there hath been in the testimony of your church about this very thing : as appears not only by the great difference among your writers concerning the authentick copy's , some still defending the hebrew and greek texts , and others standing up for that great diana of rome the vulgar latin. considering then , that by the decree of the council of trent the vulgar latin is looked on by you as the most authentick copy of the scripture , let any one judge whether ever this could be judged more authentick , than when the pope himself in cathedrâ doth revise any edition of it , and use all possible care for the setting of it forth , not only comparing it with the best ancient ms s. but taking the pains to correct it with his own hand both before and after the press , and all this was done by sixtus . as himself declares in the preface to his edition of the vulgar latin , a.d. . yet within little more then two years after comes out the edition of clement . which , as appears by the computation of such who have taken the pains to compare them , differs from the other in some thousands of places . now i pray tell me what infallible certainty are we like to have concerning the copy's of scripture , being the same with those delivered by the apostles , from the infallibility of your church , when this testimony of your church doth so finely contradict it self within little more then two years time . nay when sixtus . his care was so great and extraordinary in his edition , that an inscription was made in the vatican , in perpetuam rei memoriam , which is in letters of gold in these words , sacram paginam ex concilii tridentini praescripto qvam emendatissimam divvlgari mandavit . which inscription , as angelus roccha tells us , was purposely made to set forth that infinite care and pains which the pope took in that edition , which were so great ( saith he ) that it is impossible that any should recount them , and for his own part he stood astonished when he saw them : for he not only carefully corrected the copy before the impression , but reviewed it sheet by sheet after , that the edition might be the more faithful . and shall we after all this believe that sixtus . never lived to see this edition compleat , which is the miserable shift some of your party have to avoid this evident contradiction : or shall we think , what others pretend , that he never lived to authorize this edition of his , whereas his brieve doth in terms declare this to be the authentick vulgar latin , which the decree of the council of trent had respect to ; but this brieve , others say , though provided was never proclaimed ; it seems then the popes infallibility depends upon proclamation , but was not this bull sufficiently proclaimed which is extant in those editions of sixtus ? with an injunction that this bible be read in all churches ne minimâ quidem particulâ , mutatâ , additâ , vel detractâ , without any the least alteration . now then when the vulgar latin is owned by the council of trent for the authentick copy of scripture ; when the pope whose testimony must be supposed infallible takes great pains in prosecution of the decree of that council to declare and set forth the true authentick edition of this vulgar latin , when should we ever , if not now , expect some infallible certainty of the true copy of the scripture ? yet so far are we from it , that not long after men are forbidden the use of that edition under the penalty of the greater excommunication . and all this , forsooth , under the pretence of typographical faults , and what then must we think of that pope who took such incessant pains to correct them ? thus we see how far we are from any certainty at all , much more from any infallible certainty concerning the true copy's of scripture from the authority of your church . . the authenticalness of those copy's set forth by the appointment of the council of trent and the approbation of the pope , hath no greater evidence of certainty than any other copy's of scripture , if they have so much . for all that sixtus . pretends for the authenticalness of that copy , is , the agreement of it with the ancient and approved copy's both printed and mss. which he had caused to be diligently searched in libraries , than which , ( saith he ) there can be no more firm or certain argument of the true and genuine text . well said however in this ! but if the latin copy's be so sure a rule to judge of the authenticalness of the text by , shall not much more the ancient copy's of the original hebrew and greek ; especially when we consider , that the vast difference of the clementine and sixtine bibles lay in this , that clement the . did correct the vulgar latin according to the original in above two thousand places , when the contrary reading was established by sixtus . for the pope where he pleased took the marginal annotations in the lovain bibles and inserted them into the text ; which marginal annotations contain the different readings which were observed from the comparing the vulgar latin with the originals , as appears by the preface to the lovain bibles . and although the pope ex apostolicae potestatis plenitudine ( as sixtus . phraseth it in the bull before his bibles ) did take and leave where he pleased himself , yet it is evident from those who have compared them , that above two thousand places are reformed according to the originals ; and more then twice as many more might have been if his holiness had thought good . for our industrious dr. james , who had taken the pains accurately to compare not only the sixtine clementine bibles , but the clementine edition with the lovain annotations , doth in the defence of his bellum papale challenge gretser the jesuit to joyn issue with him if he dared on the point , viz. of making it appear that there were . differences in the lovain annotations from the vulgar latin , and that these differences arise from the comparing it with the hebrew , greek , and chaldee . are we not then at a fine pass for our infallible certainty concerning the copies of scripture , if the judgement of your church must be relyed on ? was that sufficient ground for pope clement to reform two thousand places , and would it not serve for all the rest ? if those were truer because they agreed more with the originals , were not the rest so too ? and have not we the greatest reason to rely on the originals when the pope himself appeals to them , and reforms by them ? according then to the judgement of your pretended infallible church we have as great certainty as they , for certainly the hebrew and greek are as obvious to us as them ; and i never yet heard that your popes did challenge to themselves among other apostolical prerogatives the gift of tongues . . we may be sufficiently assured that there are no material corruptions in the books of scripture without your churches testimony , not that we pretend the apostles autographa are still extant for us to compare our copies with ( although some of your side tell us among other rarities of the vatican , that the true ancient greek text is there extant , which the pope would do well to oblige the world with ) but we whose eyes are not blest with such noble sights as are there lockt up from all such who have not a good dose of implicite faith about them , pretend to no such thing : but by the diligent comparing the present copies with the most ancient mss. by the observation of what citations of scripture are produced by those of the fathers who lived when some of these autographa were extant ( as it is apparent some were in tertullians time , and some tell us that the authentick apocalypse was preserved in the church of ephesus in honorius his time ) by the diligence of the primitive writers in taking notice of the least attempt for falsification or corruption of the text ; for when marcion began to clip and falsifie the text , irenaeus presently takes notice of it and gives him a sufficient rebuke for it : and so doth tertullian afterwards , and epiphanius particularly takes notice of all those places which had violent hands laid upon them and rescues them from those impure attempts , so that we still enjoy them in their integrity . so that whatever endeavours were made , they were presently discovered , as that of the arrians by st. ambrose , that of tatianus his monotessaron by theodoret. in so much , that bellarmin himself confesseth ; etsi multa depravare conati sunt haeretici , tamen nunquam defuerunt catholici , qui corum corruptelas detexerint , & non permiserint libros sacros corrumpi . that the catholicks were as vigilant as the hereticks malicious , and therefore could never effect their design in corrupting the scripture . besides , it is observable , that among those multitudes of various lections in the new testament , of which r. stephen made a collection out of sixteen mss. of . ( which probably were occasioned by the general dispersion of copies , and the multitudes of transcriptions by such as were either ignorant or careless ) yet there are none which are material , so as to entrench upon the integrity and authority of the copies as a rule of faith and manners ; they are therefore but racings of the skin , but no wounds of any vital part . abating therefore only what must necessarily be supposed in the multitudes of copies transcribed , there is so great integrity and incorruption in those copies we have , that we cannot but therein take notice of a peculiar hand of divine providence in preserving these authentick records of our religion so safe to our dayes . but it is time now to return to you . you would therefore perswade us , that we have no ground of certainty as to the copies of scripture , but comparing them with the apostles autographa ; but i hope our former discourse hath given you a sufficient account of our certainty without seeing the apostles own hands . but i pray what certainty then had the jews after the captivity , of their copies of the law ? yet i cannot think you will deny them any ground of certainty in the time of christ that they had the true copies both of the law and the prophets ; and i hope you will not make the sanhedrin , which condemned our saviour to death , to have given them their only infallible certainty concerning it . if therefore the jews might be certain without infallibility , why may not we ? for if the oracles of god were committed to the jews then , they are to the christians now . you yet further urge , that there can be no certainty concerning the autographa's of the apostles , but by tradition : and may not every universal tradition be carried up as clearly at least to the apostles times , as the scriptures , by most credible authours , who wrote in their respective succeeding ages ? i answer , we grant there can be no certainty as to the copies of scripture but from tradition , and if you can name any of those great things in controversie between us , which you will undertake to prove to be as universal a tradition ; as that of the scriptures ; you and i shall not differ as to the belief of it . but think not to fob us off with the tradition of the present church instead of the church of all ages , with the tradition of your church instead of the catholick , with the ambiguous testimonies of two or three of the fathers , instead of the universal consent of the church since the apostles times . if i should once see you prove the infallibility of your church , the popes supremacy , invocation of saints , veneration of images , the necessity of coelibate in the clergy , a punitive purgatory , the lawfulness of communicating in one kind , the expediency of the scriptures and prayers being in an unknown tongue , the sacrifice of the mass , transubstantiation ( to name no mo●e ) by as unquestionable and universal a tradition as that whereby we receive the scriptures , i shall extoll you for the only person that ever did any thing considerable on your side , and i shall willingly yield my self up as a trophey to your brave attempts . either then for ever forbear to mention any such things , as vniversal tradition among you as to any things , besides scriptures , which carry a necessity with them of being believed or practised ; or once for all undertake this task , and manifest it as to the things in controversie between us . your next paragraph ( besides what hath been already discussed in this chapter concerning apostolical tradition of scripture ) empties it self into the old mare mortuum of the formal object and infallible application of faith , which i cannot think my self so much at leasure to follow you into , so often as you fall into it . when once you bring any thing that hath but the least resemblance of reason more than before , i shall afresh consider it , but not till then . what next follows concerning resolving faith into prime apostolical tradition infallibly , without the infallibility of the present church , hath been already prevented by telling you , that his lordship doth not say , that the infallible resolution of faith is into that apostolical tradition , but into the doctrine which is conveyed in the books of scripture from the apostles times down to us , by an unquestionable tradition . your stale objection , that then we should want divine certainty , hath been over and over answered ; and so hath your next paragraph , that if the church be not infallible , we cannot be infallibly certain , that scripture is gods word : and so the remainder concerning canonical books . it is an easie matter to write great books after that rate , to swell up your discourses with needless repetitions ; but it is the misery that attends a bad cause , and a bad stomach , to have unconcocted things brought up so often , till we nauseate them . your next offer is at the vindication of the noted place of s. austin , i would not believe the gospel , &c. which ( you say ) cannot rationally be understood of novices , weaklings , and doubters in the faith. this being then the place at every turn objected by you , and having before reserved the discussion of it to this place , i shall here particularly and throughly consider the meaning of it . in order to which , three things must be enquired into . . what the controversie was which st. austin was there discussing of ? . what that church was which st. austin was moved by the authority of ? . in what way and manner that churches authority did perswade him ? . nothing seems more necessary for understanding the meaning of this place , than a true state of the controversie , which s. austin was disputing of ; and yet nothing less spoke to on either side , than this hath been . we are therefore to consider , that when manes or manichaeus began to appear in the world , to broach that strange and absurd doctrine of his in the christian world , which he had received from terebinthus or buddas , as he from scythianus ( who , if we belieue epiphanius , went to jerusalem in the apostles times , to enquire into the doctrine of christianity , and dispute with the christians about his opinions ) but easily foreseeing what little entertainment so strange a complexion of absurdities would find in the christian world , as long as the writings of the apostles and evangelists were received every where with that esteem and veneration : two waies he , or his more cunning disciples , bethought themselves of , whereby to lessen the authority of those writings , and so make way for the doctrine of manichaeus . one was to disparage the credulity of christians , because the catholick church insisted so much on the necessity of faith , whereas they pretended they would desire men to believe nothing but what they gave them sufficient reason for . but all this while , since the christians thought they had evident reason for believing the scriptures , and consequently none to believe the doctrine which did oppose them ; therefore they found it necessary to go further , and to charge those copies of scripture with falsifications and corruptions , which were generally received among christians . but these are fully delivered by s. austin in his book de utilitate credendi , as will appear to any one who looks into it ; but the latter is that which i aim at ; this he therefore taxeth them for , that with a great deal of impudence , or , to speak mildly , with much weakness , they charged the scriptures to be corrupted ; and yet could not at so small a distance of time prove any corruption by any copies which were extant . for , saith he , if they should say , they would not embrace their writings , because they were written by such who were not careful of writing truth , their evasion would be more s●y , and their errour more pardonable . but thus , it seems , they did by the acts of the apostles , utterly denying them to contain matter of truth in them ; and the reason was very obvious for it , because that book gives so clear an account of the sending the spirit upon the apostles , which the manichees pretended was to be only accomplished in the person of manichaeus . and both before and after , s. austin mentions it as their common speech , that before the time of manichaeus , there had been corrupters of the sacred books , who had mixed several things of their own with what was written by the apostles . and this they laid upon the judaizing christians , because their great pique was against the old testament , and probably some further reason might be from the nazarene gospel ; wherein many things were inserted by such as did judaize . the same thing st. austin chargeth them with , when he gives an account of their heresie . and this likewise appears by the management of the dispute between s. austin and faustus , who was much the subtillest man among them . faustus acknowledged no more to be gospel , than what contained the doctrine delivered by our saviour , and therefore denied the genealogies to be any part of the gospel ; and afterwards disputes against it , both in s. matthew , and s. luke . and after this s. austin notes it as their usual custom , when they could not avoid a testimony of scripture , to deny it . thus we see , what kind of persons these were , and what their pretences were which s. austin disputes against , they embraced so much of scripture , as pleased them , and no more . to this therefore s. austin returns these very substantial answers , that if such proceedings might be admitted , the divine authority of any books could signifie nothing at all for the convincing of errours . that it was much more reasonable , either with the pagans , to deny the whole bible , or with the jews , to deny the new testament , than thus to acknowledge in general the books divine , and to quarrel with such particular passages as pinched them most , that if there were any suspicion of corruption , they ought to produce more true copies , and more ancient books than theirs , or else be judged by the original languages , with many other things to the same purpose . to apply this now to the present place in dispute , s. austin in that book against the epistle of manichaeus , begins with the preface to it , which is made in imitation of the apostles strain , and begins thus , manichaeus apostolus jesu christi , providentià dei patris , &c. to this s. austin saith , he believes no such thing , as that manichaeus was an apostle of jesus christ , and hopes they will not be angry with him for it ; for he had learned of them not to believe without reason . and therefore desires them to prove it : it may be ( saith he ) one of you may read me the gospel , and thence perswade me to believe it . but , what if you should meet with one , who , when you read the gospel , should say to you , i do not believe it . but , i should not believe the gospel , if the authority of the church did not move me : whom therefore i obey in saying believe the gospel , should i not obey in saying , believe not manichaeus . the question , we see , is concerning the proving the apostleship of manichaeus , which cannot in it self be proved , but from some records , which must specifie such an apostleship of his ; and to any one who should question the authenticalness of those records , it can only be proved by the testimony and consent of the catholick church , without which s. austin professeth , he should never have believed the gospel , i. e. that these were the only true and undoubted records , which are left us of the doctrine and actions of christ. and he had very good reason to say so ; for otherwise the authority of those books should be questioned every time any one , such as manichaeus , should pretend himself an apostle : which controversies there can be no other way of deciding , but by the testimony of the church , which hath received and embraced these copies from the time of their first publishing . and that this was s. austin's meaning , will appear by several parallel places in his disputes against the manichees . for in the same chapter , speaking concerning the acts of the apostles , which book ( saith he ) i must believe , as well as the gospel , because the same catholick authority commends both ; i. e. the same testimony of the vniversal church , which delivers the gospel as the authentick writings of the evangelists , doth likewise deliver the acts of the apostles for an authentick writing of one of the same evangelists : so that there can be no reason to believe the one , and not the other . so when he disputes against faustus , who denied the truth of some things in s. paul's epistles ; he bids him shew a truer copy than that the catholick church received , which copy , if he should produce , he desires to know how he would prove it to be truer to one that should deny it . what would you do ? ( saith he ) whither would you turn your self ? what original of your book could you shew ? what antiquity , what testimony of a succession of persons from the time of the writing of it ? but on the contrary , what huge advantage the catholicks have , who , by a constant succession of bishops in the apostolical sees , and by the consent of so many people , have the authority of the church confirmed to them for the clearing the validity of its testimony concerning the records of scripture . and after laies down rules for the trying of copies , where there appears any difference between them , viz. by comparing them with the copies of other countries , from whence the doctrine originally came ; and if those copies vary too , the more copies should be preferred before the fewer , the ancienter before the latter : if yet any uncertainty remains , the original language must be consulted . this is , in case a question ariseth among the acknowledged authentical copies of the catholick church , ( in which case we see , he never sends men to the infallible testimony of the church , for certainty as to the truth of the copies ) but if the question be , whether any writing it self be authentical or no , then it stands to the greatest reason , that the testimony of the catholick church should be relyed on , which , by reason of its large spread , and continual succession from the very time of those writings , cannot but give the most indubitable testimony concerning the authenticalness of the writings of the apostles and evangelists . and were it not for this testimony , s. austin might justly say , he should not believe the gospel ; i. e. suppose those writings which contain the gospel in them ( for it is plain he speaks of them , and not the doctrine abstractly considered ) should have wanted that consent of the catholick church , that it had not been delivered down by a constant succession of all ages from the apostles , and were not received among the christian churches , but started out from a few persons who differ from all christian churches , as this apostleship of manichaeus did ; he might justly question the truth of them . and this i take to be truest and most natural account of these so much controverted words of s. austin ; by which sense the other two questions are easily answered : for it is plain , s. austin means not the judgement of the present church , but of the catholick church , in the most comprehensive sense , as taking in all ages and places , or in vincentius his words , succession , vniversality , and consent ; and it further appears , that the influence which this authority hath , is sufficient to induce assent to the thing attested in all persons who consider it , in what age , capacity , or condition soever . and therefore , if in this sense you extend it beyond novices and weaklings , i shall not oppose you in it ; but it cannot be denied , that it is intended chiefly for doubters in the faith , because the design of it is to give men satisfaction as to the reason why they ought to believe . but neither you , nor any of those you call catholick authours , will ever be able to prove , that s. austin by these words ever dreamt of any infallible authority in the present church , as might be abundantly proved from the chapter foregoing , where he gives an account of his being in the catholick church , from the consent of people and nations from that authority which was begun by miracles , nourished by hope , increased by charity , confirmed by continuance , which certainly are not the expressions of one who resolved his faith into the infallible testimony of the present church . and the whole scope and design of his book de utilitate credendi , doth evidently refute any such apprehension , as might be easily manifested , were it not too large a subject for this place , where we only examine the meaning of s. austin in another book . the substance of which , is , that that speech of his doth not contain a resolution of his faith , as to the divinity of christs doctrine ; but the resolution of it , as to the truth and authenticalness of the writings of the apostles and evangelists , which we acknowledge to be into the testimony of the catholick church , in the most large and comprehensive sense . the next thing we come to consider , is , an absurdity you charge on his lordship , viz. that if the infallible authority of the church be not admitted in the resolution , he must have recourse to the private spirit , which ( you say ) though he would seem to exclude from the state of the question , yet he falls into it under the specious title of grace ; so that he only changeth the words , but admits the same thing , for which you cite p. , . that therein his lordship should averr , that where others used to say , they were infallibly resolved that scripture was gods word , by the testimony of the spirit within them , that he hath the same assurance by grace . whether you be not herein guilty of abusing his lordship by a plain perverting of his meaning , will be best seen by producing his words . a man ( saith he ) is probably led by the authority of the present church , as by the first informing , inducing , perswading means , to believe the scripture to be the word of god : but , when he hath studied , considered , and compared this word with it self , and with other writings , with the help of ordinary grace , and a mind morally induced , and reasonably perswaded by the voice of the church , the scripture then gives greater and higher reasons of credibility to it self , than tradition alone could give . and then he that believes , resolves his last and full assent , that scripture is of divine authority , into internal arguments found in the letter it self , though found by the help and direction of tradition without , and grace within . had you not a great mind to calumniate , who could pick out of these words , that the bishop resolved his faith into grace ? can any thing be more plain , than the contrary is from them , when in the most perspicuous terms he says , that the last resolution of faith is into internal arguments , and only supposeth tradition and grace as necessary helps for the finding them ? might you not then as well have said , that his lordship , notwithstanding his zeal against the infallibility of tradition , is fain to resolve his faith into it at last , as well as say , that he doth it into grace ; for he joyns these two together ? but , is it not possible to assert the vse and necessity of grace , in order to faith , but the last resolution of it must be into it ? do not all your divines , as well as ours , suppose and prove the necessity of grace , in order to believing ; and , are they not equally guilty of having recourse to the private spirit ? do you really think your self , that there is any thing of divine grace in faith or no ? if there be , free your self then from the private spirit , and you do his lordship . for shame then forbear such pitiful calumnies ; which , if they have any truth in them , you are as much concerned as your adversary in it . you would next perswade us , that the relator never comes near the main difficulty , which ( say you ) is , if the church be supposed fallible in the tradition of scripture , how it shall be certainly known , whether de facto , she now errs not in her delivery of it ? if this be your grand difficulty , it is sufficiently assoiled already , having largely answered this question in terminis , in the preceding chapter . you ask further , what they are to do who are unresolved which is the true church ; as though it were necessary for men to know which is the true church , before they can believe the scriptures to be the word of god ? but when we assert the tradition of the church to be necessary for believing the scriptures , we do not thereby understand the particular tradition of any particular church whose judgement they must rely on , but the vniversal tradition of all christians though this must be first made known in some particular society , by the means of some particular persons , though their authority doth not oblige us to believe , but only are the means whereby men come acquainted with that vniversal tradition . and therefore your following discourse concerning the knowing the true church by its motives is superseded ; for we mean no other church than the community of christians in this controversie ; and , if you ask me , by what motives i come to be certain which is a community of christians , and which of mahumetans , and how one should be known from another , i can soon resolve you : but we are so far from making it necessary to know which particular society of christians in opposition to others , is the true church for resolving this question , that we look on it as a great argument of the credibility as well as vniversality of this tradition , that all these differing societies consent in it . and not only they , but the greatest opposers of christianity , jews , or philosophers , could never see any reason to call in question such a tradition . his lordship the better to represent the use of tradition in the last resolution of faith makes use of this illustration , that as the knowledge of grammer and logick is necessary in order to the making a demonstration , yet the knowledge of the conclusion is not resolved into grammer or logick , but into the immediate principles out of which it is deduced : so a mans first preparative to faith is the churches tradition , but his full and last assent is resolved into the internal arguments of scripture . this you quarrel with , and tell us , there is not the same analogy between logick and church tradition ; your meaning , i suppose is , because logick doth physically by inlarging the understanding fit men for demonstrations , but church-tradition cannot enable men to understand the scripture . but cannot you easily discern that analogy which his lordship brought this illustration for , which is , that some things may be necessary preparatives for knowledge , which that knowledge is not resolved into . is not this plain in logick , and is it not as plain between tradition and scripture ? for though tradition doth not open our eyes to see this light , yet it presents the object to us to be seen , and that in an unquestionable manner . but for all this , say you , a man must either receive it on the sole authority of church-tradition , or be as much in the dark as ever . why so ? is there any repugnancy in the thing , that scripture should be received first upon the account of tradition , and yet afterwards men resolve their faith into the scripture it self ? may not a man very probably believe that a diamond is sent him from a friend upon the testimony of the messenger who brings it , and yet be firmly perswaded of it , by discerning the sparklings of it ? but , say you further , the scriptures themselves appear no more to be the word of god , then the stars to be of a certain determinate number , or the distinction of colours to a blind man. if this approach not to the highest blasphemy against the scripture , i know not what doth . he that shall compare this saying of yours , with that in the precedent chapter , that if christ had not left the church infallible , he might be accounted an impostor and deceiver , may easily guess how much of religion you believe in your heart , when on so small occasions you do so openly disparage both christ and the scriptures . it is well yet , your churches infallibility can stand on no better terms than these are , which will be sufficient to keep any who have any true sense of the truth and excellency of christ and the scriptures from hearkening to it . but are you in good earnest when you say , that scriptures themselves appear no more to be the word of god , than the distinction of colours to a blind man , which is as much as nothing at all ? is there nothing at all in the excellency of the doctrine and precepts contained in the scriptures , nothing in those clear discoveries of god and our selves , nothing in all those transactions between god and men , nothing in that covenant of redemption between god and man through christ , nothing in the clear accomplishment and fulfilling of prophesies , nothing in that admirable strain and style which is in the writings , nothing in that harmonious consent which is discovered in writers of several ages , interests , places , and conditions , nothing in that admirable efficacy which the doctrine of it hath upon the souls of men to perswade them to renounce sin , the world , and themselves for the sake of it ; is there nothing more ( i say ) in all these , which makes the scripture appear to be the word of god , than the distinction of colours to a blind man ? could you assoon think to account the starrs as discern any thing of divinity from these things in the scriptures ? if your eyes were as blind as your understanding , could you assoon distinguish white from black , as the scripture from the alcoran , if they were both presented to you to read , and judge of them according to the evidence you found in them ? is it possible a man that owns himself a christian , should utter such opprobrious language of the scripture ? you had been before speaking what honour you give to the scripture , notwithstanding you pretend your church infallible , and i had mentioned some of those passages which occurr in your writers in disparagement of them : but i must needs say they all fall short of this ; the nose of wax , the inky divinity , the lesbian rule , are courtlike expressions to this of yours ; for this puts no difference in the world between the scripture and the alcoran , if your church should propound the one as well as the other . for you could not possibly say worse of the alcoran , then that of it self it appeared no more to be the word of god , than distinction of colours to a blind man. i might here send you to be chastised for this insolent atheistical expression to the primitive fathers , who speak so much in admiration of the excellency of scriptures , who did vindicate them from all assaults of the heathen philosophers . i might send you to those of your own party , who if they have any love or tenderness for christian religion will not suffer such passages to pass without the most severe rebukes : i might sufficiently prove the contrary from the arguments used against atheists by bellarmine and others ; but i shall content my self with that noble and christian confession of your gregory de valentiâ , from whom you might learn more piety and modesty towards the sacred scriptures . there being many things in the doctrine of christianity it self , which of themselves may conciliate belief and authority , yet that seems the greatest to me ( as hath been observed by clement of alexandria , lactantius and others ) that i know not with what admirable force , but most divine , it affects the hearts of men , and stirs them up to vertue . it is written with great simplicity , and without almost any artifice or ornament of speech ; which is an argument that its authority is not humane but divine , for no humane writing hath any power on the minds of men without a great deal of art and eloquence . how many things are there in this ingenuous and pious confession of this learned jesuite , which might , if you have any shame left , make you sensible of the blasphemy of your former expression . for , . he saith , there are many things in the doctrine of christianity which for themselves may conciliate our belief , and manifest their authority : if for themselves , then certainly the scriptures of themselves have a great deal more evidence , that they are the word of god , than the distinction of colours to a blind man. . that the peculiar strain and genius of scripture argues something divine in it , because , notwithstanding its simplicity it hath so great power and efficacy on the minds of men ; far beyond any humane art or rhetorick . . that this may be discerned in the very books of scripture without the supposition of the authority of any church ; for he mentions the doctrine meerly as written , and what may be found by the reading of it . go then , and learn some piety and ingenuity ( where it is so seldome to be learned ) from a jesuite , and think not that we shall ever have the meaner thoughts of the scripture for such bold expressions ; but , we can easily see , that the infallibility of the church , and the honour of scripture cannot possibly stand together . your subsequent discourse consists of some rare pieces of subtilty , which may be resolved into these consequences ; if your church of rome hath erred as to the number of canonical books , then the catholick church , ever since christs time , hath erred ; if the church may erre , then we cannot be certain but she hath erred ; if we can have no infallible certainty , then we can have none at all ; these consequences your discourse to n. . may be resolved into ; and make good ever a one of them , i will say you have proved something ; which is more than you have done yet . n. . you object against his lordship , that he requires so many things in order to the resolution of faith , that he makes none capable of it , but men of extraordinary parts and learning . to which i answer , that his lordship is not undertaking to give an account of the faith of rude or illiterate persons , but such a one as may satisfie men of parts and learning , i. e. he endeavoured to lay down the true rational account of it , and not to enquire how far god obligeth every man that comes to heaven , to a critical resolution of his faith. and therefore for the generality of such persons who heartily believe the truth of scriptures , but are not able to give a clear and satisfactory account of it to others ; i answer , as s. austin did in the same case , caeteram quippe turbam non intelligendi vivacitas , sed credendi simplicitas tutissimam facit : that god requires not from the common sort of believers , the subtilty of speculation , but the simplicity of faith ; which may be very firm even in them from the reading of scriptures , and hearing the doctrine of it plainly delivered to them , though they are not able to give such accounts of their faith , which may be satisfactory to any but themselves . so we say , that the way is so plain , that mean capacities may not erre therein . but , i wonder at you , of all men , that you should charge our way with intricacy , who lead men into such perplexities and difficulties , before they can be satisfied that they ought to believe ; for to this end you make the infallible testimony of the church necessary ; and , how many insuperable difficulties are there before one can be assured of that ? first , he must know your church to be the true church , and this must be proved by a continual succession of pastors in your church , and by a conformity of your doctrine with the ancients ; and , do you think these two are not very easie introductions to faith , like the taking rome in ones way , to go from york to london ; but , though a man should pull down a house to find a key to open it , and after he had searched in all the rubbish of antiquity , find enough to perswade him yours may be a true church , yet he is as far from believing as ever , unless he finds a way through another trap-door for his faith , which is , that yours , though a particular church , is yet the only catholick church , i. e. that the first room he comes in , is infallibly the whole house , and therefore he never needs look further . but , supposing this , yet if he doth not believe this church to be infallible in all it says , he had as good never come into it ; and therefore he must believe strenuously , that whatever it says , is infallibly true , which being so hard a task ( as for a man that sees a house half down before his eyes , to believe it can never fall ) it had need have some good buttresses to support it , and at last finds nothing but some feeble motives of credibility , which signifie nothing as to the church , but might have been strong enough , if set in the right place , viz. not to support the church , but to prove the truth of christian doctrine . these , and many other intrigues , which i have formerly discovered , do unavoidably attend the resolution of your faith , among all persons who profess to believe on the account of your churches infallibility . what follows next concerning grace , is already answered : what certainty we have that scripture is of divine revelation , and consequently what obligation lyes upon men to believe it , are things largely discoursed on in the beginning of this chapter ; and i shall suppose sufficiently cleared , till you shew me reason to the contrary : by which it will appear ( contrary to what follows n. . ) that we have the highest reasons or motives of credibility , to assent to the truth , and divine authority of the scriptures . but you proceed to an attempt of something new ; which is , in a long harangue to disprove his lordships opinion of resolving faith into that divine light which appears in scripture . this you insist on from n. . to n. . the substance of all which discourse , i suppose , may be reduced to these three things . . that though the scripture be called a light , yet that is to be understood only of those who own its authority . . that the scripture cannot shew it self to be an infallible light. . that if there were such light in scriture , all others would see it as well as he . before i come to a particular handling of each of these , it will be necessary to consider , what it is which his lordship means by this divine light in scripture ; for , there is nothing causeth more confusion in the discourses and apprehensions of men , than the applying metaphors taken from the sense to the acts of the vnderstanding : for , by this means , we are apt to judge of our intellectual acts in a way wholly suitable to those of sense . we are not therefore to conceive , there can be any thing in divine truths , which so immediately doth discover it self to the mind , as light doth to the eye . but that only which bears proportion to the light in the mind , is reason ; for mens minds being discursive , and not intuitive , they do not behold the truth of things by immediate intuition , but by such reason and arguments as do induce and perswade to assent . we are not therefore to imagine any such light in scripture , that doth as immediately work upon the understanding , as the light of the sun doth on the organs of sight ; and therefore that common speech , that light doth discover it self as well as other things , is in this sense improperly applied to the understanding ; for , whatever is discovered to the mind in a discursive manner , as all objects of faith are , must have some antecedent evidence to it self , which must be the ground of the act of assent . that therefore which is called the divine light of scripture , is , i suppose that rational evidence which is contained in the books of scripture , whereby any reasonable man may be perswaded that these books are of divine authority . now that herein i say nothing beyond or besides his lordships meaning and intention , will appear by his own discourse on this subject . for . his lordship designedly disproves that opinion that scripture should be fully and sufficiently known as by divine and infallible testimony , lumine proprio , by the resplendency of that light which it hath in it self only , and by the witness that it can so give to it self . because , as there is no place in scripture that tells us such books containing such and such particulars , are the canon and infallible will of god ; so , if there were any such place , that could be no sufficient proof ; for , a man may justly ask another book to bear witness to that , and so in infinitum . again , this inbred light of scripture is a thing coincident with scripture it self , and so the principles and the conclusion in this kind of proof should be entirely the same , which cannot be . besides , if this inward light were so clear , how could there have been any variety among the ancient believers , touching the authority of s. james , and s. judes epistles , and the apocalypse , &c. for certainly the light which is in the scripture , was the same then which now it is . on these reasons then , we see , his lordship not only disclaims , but disproves such knowing the scripture meerly by the light within . two things then i hence inferr , which will be very necessary to clear his lordships meaning . . that he no where attributes such an inward light to scripture , that by it self it can discover that these books are from god. . that where his lordship mentions this light most , he supposeth tradition antecedent to it , as appears by his whole discourse . from whence i gather this to have been the plainest account of his way of resolving faith , as i have already intimated , viz. that the resolution of faith may be considered two waies ; into the books , and into the doctrine contained in them . the resolution into the books , must , of necessity , suppose tradition , and rely upon it ; and this kind of resolution of faith , cannot be into any self-evidence , or internal light : but , supposing the books owned on the account of tradition , if the question be concerning the divinity of the doctrine , then he asserts , that the resolution of this is into the divine light of scripture , i. e. into that rational evidence which we find of the divinity of it , in these books which are owned on the account of tradition . and that this is his lordships meaning , appears . by his own testimony , who was best able to explain himself ; for , when he goes about to confirm his opinion by the testimonies of the fathers , he tells us , this was the way which the ancient church ever used , namely , tradition , or ecclesiastical authority first , and then all other arguments , but especially internal , from the scripture it self . and , for this first , instanceth in s. augustine , who ( saith he ) gives four proofs all internal to the scripture it self , which are , first , the miracles . secondly , that there is nothing carnal in the doctrine . thirdly , fulfilling of prophecies . fourthly , the efficacy of it for conversion of the world . all these we see he instanceth in , as internal arguments , and therefore make up that which he calls divine light. so that all that he means by this light of scripture , is only that rational evidence of the divinity of the doctrine , which may be discovered in it , or deduced from it . having thus explained his lordships meaning , it will be no matter of difficulty to return an answer to the particulars by you alledged . . you say , that when scripture is said to be a light by the royal prophet , it is to be understood in this sense , because , after we have once received it from the infallible authority of the church , it teacheth what we are to do and believe . but , . doth not the scripture sufficiently teach what we are to do and believe , supposing it not received on the infallible authority of the church ? doth that add any thing to the light of scripture ? or , do you suppose the necessity of infallibly believing it on the churches authority , before one can discern what it teacheth us to do and believe ? . what ground have you , in the least , to imagine , that david ever believed the scripture on the infallible authority of the church : that he doth suppose it to be gods word , when he saith , it is a light to his feet , i deny not ; but that he should suppose it to be so , because the church did infallibly tell him it was so , is a most ungrounded assertion . had he not sufficient evidence that the law was from god , by those many unquestionable and stupendous miracles , which attended the delivery of it ? was not the whole constitution and government of the jewish nation , an impregnable argument that those things were true , which were recorded in their books ? did ever the jewish sanhedrin , high priest , or others , arrogate to themselves any infallible testimony , in delivering the books of moses to the people ? the most you can suppose of a ground of certainty among them , was from that sacred record of the book of the law , which was kept in the ark : and how could they know that was authentick , but from the same tradition , which conveyed the miracles of moses to them ? so that nothing like any infallible authority of a church was looked on by them as necessary to believe the law to have been from god. . supposing it from tradition unquestionable , that the law was from god , those incomparable directions which were in it might be a great confirmation to david's faith , that it was his word . which is that he intends , in these words , thy word is a light to my feet , &c. to shew that excellency and perspicuity which was in his word , that it gave him the best directions for ordering his conversation . and this is all which his lordship means , that to those , who , by the advantage of tradition , have already venerable thoughts of scripture ; the serious conversing with it , doth highly advance them , and establish their belief of it , as that faith is thereby clinched which was driven in by education . and therefore , when he saith , that light discovers its self as well as other things , he presently adds , not till there hath been a preparing instruction what light it is . thus ( he saith ) the tradition of the church is the first moral motive to belief : but the belief it self , that scripture is the word of god , rests upon scripture , when a man finds it to answer and exceed that which the church gave in testimony . for this his lordship cites origen , who , though much nearer the prime tradition than we are , yet being to prove that the scriptures were inspired from god , he saith , de hoc assignabimus ex ipsis scripturis divinis , quae nos competentèr moverint , &c. we will mention those things out of the sacred scriptures , which have perswaded us , &c. to this you answer , though origen prove by the scriptures themselves , that they were inspired from god ; yet doth he never avow , that this could be proved out of them , unless they were received by the infallible authority of the church . which answer is very unreasonable . for . it might be justly expected that his lordship had produced an express testimony to his purpose out of origen , you should have brought some other as clear for his believing scripture on the churches infallibility , which you are so far from , that you would put us to prove a negative : but , if you will deal fairly , and as you ought to do , produce your testimonies out of him , and the rest of the fathers concerning your churches infallibility . till then , excuse us if we take their express words , and leave you to gather infallibility out of their latent meanings . . what doth your infallibility conduce to the believing scriptures for themselves ? for , you say , the scriptures cannot be proved by themselves to be gods word , unless they were received by the infallible authority of the church ; it seems then , if they be so received , they may be proved by themselves to be gods word . are those proofs by themselves sufficient for faith or no ? if not , they are very slender proofs : if they be , what need your churches infallibility ? unless you will suppose , no man can discern those proofs without your churches testimony ; and then they are not proofs by themselves , but from your churches infallibility ; which may serve for one accession more to the heap of your contradictions . his lordship asserting the last resolution of faith to be into simply divine authority , cites that speech of henr. à gandavo , that in the primitive church , when the apostles themselves spake , they did believe principally for the sake of god , and not the apostles ; from whence he inferrs , if , where the apostles themselves spake , the last resolution of faith was into god , and not into themselves on their own account ; much more shall it now be into god , and not the present church , and into the writings of the apostles , than into the words of their successors made up into tradition . all that you answer , is , that this argument must be solved by the bishop , as well as you , because he hath granted the authority of the apostles was divine as well as you . was there ever a more senseless answer ! doth gandavo deny the apostles authority to have been divine ? nay , doth he not imply it , when he saith , men did not believe for the apostles sakes , but for gods , who spake by them . as s. paul said , you received our word , not as the word of men , but as it is indeed the word of god. how the bishop should be concerned to answer this , is beyond my skill to imagine . if origen speaks to such as believed the scriptures to be the word of god ; so doth the bishop too , viz. on the account of tradition and education . if origen endeavoured by those proofs to confirm and settle their faith , that is all the bishop aims at , that a faith taken up on the churches tradition , may be settled and confirmed by the internal arguments of scripture . but , how you should from this discourse assert , that the authority of the church must be infallible in delivering the scripture , is again beyond my reach , neither can i possibly think what should bear the face of premises to such a conclusion . unless it be , if origen assert , that the scriptures may be believed for themselves , if gandavo saith , that the resolution of faith must be into god himself , then the churches authority must be infallible ; but it appears already , that the premises are true , and what then remains but therefore , &c. which may indeed be listed among your rare argumentations for infallibility . . that scripture cannot manifest it self to be an infallible light ; the proof of which is the design of your following discourse . wherein you first quarrel with the bishop for his arguing from the scriptures being a light ; for thence ( you say ) it will only follow , that the scripture manifests it self to be a light , which you grant , but that it should manifest it self to be an infallible light you deny ; for ( say you ) unless he could shew that there are no other lights , save the word of god , and such as are infallible , he can never make good his consequence . for in seneca , plutarch , aristotle , you read many lights , and those manifest themselves to be lights ; but they do not therefore manifest themselves to be infallible lights . the substance of your argument lyes in this , the scripture discovers the being of god ; so doth the talmud and alcoran , as well as it ; the scripture delivers abundance of moral instructions , but these may be found in multitudes of other books , both of christians , and jews , and heathens ; and as we do not thence inferr , that these books are infallible , so neither can we that the scriptures are . this is the utmost of sense or reason , which i can extract out of your discourse ; which reduced into form , will come to this . if the scriptures contain nothing in them , but what may be found in other books that are not infallible , then the scriptures cannot shew themselves to be infallible ; but the antecedent is true , and therefore the consequent . i could wish you would have taken a little more pains in proving that which must be your assumption , viz. that scripture contains nothing in it but what may be seen in seneca , plutarch , aristotle , the talmud , alcoran , and other books of jews and heathens . these are rare things to assert among christians , without offering at any more proof of them than you do , which lyes in this syllogism . if scripture contain some things which may be seen in these books , then it contains nothing but what may be seen in these books ; but the scripture contains some things which may be seen in other books , viz. the existence of god , and moral instructions ; therefore it contains nothing but what is in them . and , do you really think that you have now proved , that there is nothing in scripture that can shew it self to be infallible , because some things are common to other writings . would you not take it very ill that any should say that you had no more brains than a horse , or a creature of a like nature , because they have sense and motion , as well as you ? yet this is the very same argument whereby you would prove that the scriptures cannot shew themselves to be divine , because the talmud , alcoran , and philosophers , have some things in them which the scripture hath . but , can you prove that the scripture hath nothing else in it , but what may be found in any , or all of these books ? will you undertake to shew any where such representations of the being and attributes of god , so suitable to the conceptions which naturally flow from the idea of a supreme and infinite being , and yet those attributes discovered in such contrivances for mans good , which the wit of man could never have reached to ; above all , in the reconciliation of the world to himself by the death of his son ? will you find out so exact a rule of piety , consisting of such excellent precepts , such incouraging promises as are in scripture , in any other writings whatsoever ? can you discover any where such an unexpressible energy and force in a writing of so great simplicity and plainness as the scripture is ? is there any thing unbecoming that authority , which it awes the consciences of men with ? is there any thing mean , trivial , fabulous , and impertinent in it ? are not all things written with that infinite decorum and suitableness , as do highly express the majesty of him from whom it comes , but in the most sweet , affable , and condescending manner ? are there any such arguments in the writings of seneca , plutarch , aristotle , for the being of god , and immortality of souls , as there are in scripture ? are there any moral instructions built on such good grounds , carried on to so high a degree , written with that life and vigour in any of the heathen philosophers , as are in the scriptures ? how infinitely do the highest of them fall short of the scripture in those very things , which they seem most to have in common with it ? as , were it here a fit place , might be at large discovered . but , besides , and beyond all these , are there not other things which evidence the divine revelation of the doctrine contained in scripture , which none of the writings you mention , can in the least pretend to , viz. the accurate accomplishment of prophecies , and the abundance of miracles wrought for the confirmation of the divine testimony of those who delivered this doctrine to the world . and these very things now to us are internal to the scripture , the motives of faith being delivered to us in the same books that the doctrine of faith is : in which sense the scriptures may well be said to be proved divine by themselves , and that they appear infallible by the light which is in them , notwithstanding you most pitifully pretend to the contrary . and , if your church will again pardon you for such opprobrious language of scripture , as not only to compare the writings of seneca , plutarch , and aristotle with it , which yet are commendable in their kind , for moral virtue , and natural knowledge ; but those wretched and notorious impostures of the alcoran , and the fabulous relations of the talmud ; if , i say , your church will pardon such expressions as these , because they tend to inhance her infallibility , well fare that pope , who said heu quam minimo regitur mundus ! as for your following instance of a candle lighted in a room , which shews that it is a light , but not who lighted it ; so the sentences in scripture are lights , and shew themselves to be such , but they cannot shew themselves to be such infallible lights which are produced by none but god himself : i answer ; that i commend your discretion in making choice of a candle rather than of the light of the sun to set forth the scripture by . for a candle yields but a dim uncertain light , may be put into a dark lanthorn , and snuffed at pleasure ; so would your church fain pretend of the scripture , that its light is very weak and uncertain , that your church must open the sides of the lanthorn that it may give light , and make use of some apostolical snuffers of the popes keeping , to make it shine the clearer , though they often endanger the almost extinguishing of it ; at least as to the generation of those who should enjoy the benefit of it . but because that poor light of a candle cannot shew who lighted it , will not the light of the sun manifest it self to be no greater than that of a candle ? cannot any one inferr from the vast extent of that light , from the vanishing of it upon the suns setting , and its dispersing it self at his rising , that this light can proceed only from that great luminous body which is in the heavens ? and may we not proportionably inferr , from the clearness , greatness , majesty , coherency of those truths revealed in scripture , that they must certainly come from none but god ; especially being joyned with those impregnable evidences which himself by the persons who delivered them that they were imployed by himself for that end ? but because this is a matter of great consequence give me leave to propound these questions to you , and after you have considered them seriously , return me a rational answer to them . . doth it imply any repugnancy at all in the nature of the thing , or to the nature of god , that he should reveal his mind to the world . . if it doth not , as i suppose you will grant that , whether is it possible that god should make it evident to the world that such a revelation is from himself ? . if this be not impossible , is it not necessary that it should be so , supposing that god should require the belief of a doctrine so revealed on pain of eternal damnation for not believing it ? . whether god may not give as great evidence of a revelation that he makes of his mind to the world , as he doth of his being , from the wisdom , goodness , and power , which may be seen in the works of creation ? . whether any other way be conceivable that it should be evident that a doctrine comes from god , but that it contains things highly suitable to the divine nature , things above the finding out of humane reason , things only tending to advance holiness and goodness in the world , and this doctrine to be delivered by persons who wrought unparalleld miracles ? . whether all these be not in the most evident manner imaginable contained in the doctrine of christianity , and in the books of scripture ? which i leave any man that hath common sense to judge of ? . whether then it be not the highest disparagement of this divine doctrine to make it stand in need of an infallible testimony of any company who shall take the boldness to call themselves the catholick church , in order to the believing of it ; and whether there can be any greater dishonour done it , then to say it hath no more light to discover it self divine , than the writings of philosophers , not to add of jews and mahumetans ? these things i leave you and the reader to consider of , and proceed . what follows concerning the fathers and others proving the scriptures to be the word of god by themselves , after they have believed them infallibly on other grounds , is gratis dictum , unless you can prove from the fathers , that they did believe the scriptures infallibly on other grounds . which when you shall think fit to attempt i make no question to answer , but in the mean time to a crude assertion it is enough to oppose a bare denyal . your following absurdities concerning the private spirit , infallible assurance , apostolical tradition , have been frequently examin'd already . only what you say , that you read , esteem , nay very highly reverence , the scripture ; is but protestatio contra factum , as may appear by your former expressions , and therefore can have no force at all with wise men , who judge by things and not by bare words . . you say , that if there were such sufficient light in scripture to shew it self , you should see it as well as we ; seeing you read it as diligently , and esteem it as highly as we do . what! you esteem the scripture as highly as we , who say , that the scripture appears no more of it self to be gods word , than distinction of colours to a blind man ! you , who but in the page before had said , there was no more light in scripture to discover it self , than in seneca , plutarch , aristotle , nay as to some things than the talmud and alcoran ! you , who say that , notwithstanding the scriptures , christ would have been esteemed an ignoramus and impostor , if your church be not infallible ; are you the man , who esteem as highly of the scriptures as we do ? may we not therefore justly return you your own language ; and say , that if you do not see this light in scripture , it is because your eyes are perverse , your understanding unsanctified , which instead of discovering such divine light in scripture as to make you love and adore it , can have the confidence to utter such expressions which tend so highly to the disparagement of it . but did not his lordship give before a sufficient answer to this objection , by saying , . that the light is sufficient in it self , but it doth not follow that it must be evident to every one that looks into it ; for the blindness or perversness of mens minds may keep them from the discovery of it . . he saith , this light is not so full a light as that of the first principles , as , that the whole is greater than the part , that the same thing cannot be , and not be , at the same time . and yet such is your sincerity , you would seem at first to perswade the reader of the contrary in your next paragraph ; but at last you grant that he denies it to be evidently known as one of the principles of the first sort . ( for you with your wonted subtilty distinguish principles known of themselves , into such as are either evidently , and such as are probably known of themselves , i. e. principles known of themselves , are either such as are known of themselves , or such as are not ; for what is but probably known , is not certainly known of it self , but by that probable argument which causeth assent to it ) . but when you deny that the scripture is so much as one of the second sort of principles , and say expresly , that of it self it appears not so much as probably to be more the word of god , than some other book that is not truly such ; were you not so used to contradictions , i would desire you to reconcile this expression , with what you said a little before of your high esteem and reverence of the scriptures . . the bishop saith , that when he speaks of this light in scripture , he only means it of such a light as is of force to breed faith , that it is the word of god ; not to make a perfect knowledge . now faith , of whatsoever it is , this or other principle , is an evidence , as well as knowledge ; and the belief is firmer than any knowledge can be , because it rests upon divine authority , which cannot deceive ; whereas knowledge ( or at least he that thinks he knows ) is not ever certain in deductions from principles ; but the evidence is not so clear . now god doth not require a full demonstrative knowledge in us that the scripture is his word , and therefore in his providence hath kindled in it no light for that , but he requires our faith of it , and such a certain demonstration as may fit that . now what answer do you return to all this ? why , forsooth , we must have certainty , nay an infallible certainty , nay such an infallible certainty as is built on the infallible authority of the church , yet such an infallible authority as can be proved only by motives of credibility ; which is a new kind of climax in rhetorick , viz. a ladder standing with both ends upon ground at the same time . all the answer i shall therefore now give it , is , that your faith then is certain , infallibly certain , and yet built on but probable motives , and therefore on your own principles must be also uncertain , very uncertain , nay undoubtedly and infallibly uncertain . what again follows concerning canonical books and the private spirit , i must send them , as constables do vagrants , to the place from whence they came , and there they shall meet with a sufficient answer . the remainder of this chapter consists of a tedious vindication of bellarmine and brierely , which being of little consequence to the main business , i shall return the shorter answer . i shall not quarrel much with you about the interpretation of those words of bellarmine in the sense you give them , viz. if they be understood of absolute necessity , not of all christians , and only in rare cases , that it is not necessary to believe that there is scripture , on supposition that the doctrine of scripture could be sufficiently conveyed to the minds of any without it , as in the case of the barbarous nations mentioned by irenaeus . but for you who make the tradition of the present church infallible , and at the least the infallible conveyer of the formal object of faith ; i do not see how you can avoid making it as absolutely necessary to be believed as any other object of faith : unless your church hath some other way of conveying objects of faith , than by propounding the scripture infallibly to us . if therefore men are bound to believe things absolutely necessary to salvation , because contained in that book , which the church delivers to be the infallible word of god ; i cannot possibly see , but the belief of the scripture on the churches infallible testimony must be as necessary necessitate medii as any thing contained in it . as for the citation of hooker by brierely , whether it be falsified or no will best be seen by producing the scope and design of that worthy authour in the testimonies , cited out of him . upon an impartial view of which in the several places referred to , i cannot but say , that if brierely's design was to shew that hooker made the authority of the church that into which faith is lastly resolved , he doth evidently contradict mr. hookers design , and is therefore guilty of unfaithful representing his meaning . for where he doth most fully and largely express himself he useth these words , which for clearing his meaning must be fully produced . scripture teacheth all supernaturally revealed truth , without the knowledge whereof salvation cannot be attained . the main principle whereon the belief of all things therein contained dependeth , is , that the scriptures are the oracles of god himself . this in it self we cannot say is evident . for then all men that hear it would acknowledge it in heart , as they do when they hear that every whole is more than any part of that whole , because this in it self is evident . the other we know that all do not acknowledge it when they hear it . there must be therefore some former knowledge presupposed , which doth herein assure the hearts of all believers . scripture teacheth us that saving truth which god hath discovered to the world by revelation , and it presumeth us taught otherwise , that it self is divine and sacred . the question then being by what means we are taught this ; some answer , that to learn it we have no other way then only tradition : as namely that so we believe , because both we from our predecessours , and they from theirs have so received . but is this enough ? that which all mens experience teacheth them , may not in any wise be denyed . and by experience we all know , that the first motive leading men so to esteem of the scripture is the authority of gods church . for when we know the whole church of god , hath that opinion of the scripture , we judge it even at the first an impudent thing for any man bred and brought up in the church to be of a contrary mind without cause . afterwards the more we bestow our labour in reading or hearing the mysteries thereof , the more we find that the thing it self doth answer our receiv'd opinion concerning it . so that the former inducement prevailing somewhat with us before , doth now much more prevail , when the very thing hath ministred farther reason . can any thing be more plain ( if mens meaning may be gathered from their words , especially when purposely they treat of a subject ) than that hooker makes the authority of the church the primary inducement to faith , and that rational evidence which discovers it self in the doctrine revealed to be that which it is finally resolved into ? for , as his lordship saith on this very place of hooker , the resolution of faith ever settles upon the farthest reason it can , not upon the first inducement . by this place then where this worthy authour most clearly and fully delivers his judgement , we ought in reason to interpret all other occasional and incidental passages on the same subject . so in that other place . for whatsoever we believe concerning salvation by christ although the scripture be therein the ground of our belief , yet the authority of man is , if we mark it , the key which openeth the door of entrance into the knowledge of the scriptures . i will not dispute , whether here he speaks concerning the knowledge of scripture to be scripture , or concerning the natural sense and meaning of scripture : suppose i should grant you the latter , it would make little for your purpose ; for when he adds , the scripture doth not teach us the things that are of god , unless we did credit men who have taught us that the words of scripture do signifie those things . you need not here bid us stay a while : for his sense is plain and obvious , viz. that men cannot come to the natural sense and importance of the words used in scripture , unless they rely on the authority of men for the signification of those words . he speaks not here then at all concerning church-tradition properly taken , but meerly of the authority of man , which he contends must in many cases be relyed on , particularly in that of the sense and meaning of the words which occurr in scripture . therefore with his lordships leave and yours too , i do not think that in this place hooker by the authority of man doth understand church-tradition , but if i may so call it humane-tradition , viz. that which acquainteth us with the force and signification of words in use . when therefore you prove that it is tradition only , which is all the ground he puts of believing scripture to be the word of god , from those words of his , that utterly to infringe the force and strength of mans testimony , were to shake the very fortress of gods truth . now ( say you ) how can that fortress ( the scripture ) be shaken , were not that authority esteemed by him the ground of that fortress . that may very easily be shewn , viz. by calling in question the truth of humane testimony in general ; for he plainly speaks of such a kind of humane testimony as that is , whereby we know there is such a city as rome , that such and such were popes of rome , wherein the ground of our perswasion can be nothing else but humane testimony ; now take away the credit and validity of this testimony , the very fortress of truth must needs be shaken ; for we could never be certain that there were such persons , as moses , the prophets , christ and his apostles in the world , we could never be certain of the meaning of any thing written by them . but how farr is this from the final resolution of faith into church-tradition ? but the place you lay the greatest force on , is that which you first cite out of him , finally we all believe that the scriptures of god are sacred , and that they have proceeded from god ; our selves we assure , that we do right well in so believing . we have for this a demonstration sound and infallible . but it is not the word of god which doth or can possibly assure us , that we do well to think it his word . from hence you inferr , that either he must settle no infallible ground at all , or must say that the tradition of the church is that ground . no infallible ground in your sense , i grant it , but well enough in his own ; for all the difficulty lies in understanding what he means by infallible ; which he takes not in your sense for a supernatural , but only for a rational infallibility ; not such a one as excludes possibility of deception , but all reasonable doubting . in which sense he saith of such things as are capable only of moral certainty , that the testimony of man will stand as a ground of infallible assurance ; and presently instanceth in these , that there is such a city of rome , that pius . was pope there , &c. so afterwards , he saith , that the mind of man desireth evermore to know the truth according to the most infallible certainty which the nature of things can yield : by which it is plain , that the utmost certainty which things are capable of is with him infallible certainty ; and so a sound and infallible ground of faith is a certain ground , which we all assert may be had without your churches infallible testimony . whether therefore brierely and you are not guilty , if not of falsifying hookers words , yet of perverting his meaning , let the impartial reader judge . chap. viii . the churches infallibility not proved from scripture . some general considerations from the design of proving the churches infallibility from scripture . no infallibility in the high-priest and his clergy under the law ; if there had been , no necessity there should be under the gospel . of st. basils testimony concerning traditions . scripture less lyable to corruption than traditions . the great uncertainty of judging traditions when apostolical , when not . the churches perpetuity being promised in scripture proves not its infallibility . his lordship doth not falsifie c's words , but t. c. doth his meaning . producing the jesuits words no traducing their order . c's . miserable apology for them . the particular texts produced for the churches infallibility , examined . no such infallibility necessary in the apostles successours as in themselves . the similitude of scripture and tradition to an ambassadour and his credentials , rightly stated . the main design of this chapter being to prove the infallibility of the church from the testimonies of scripture ; before i come to a particular discussion of the matters contained in it , i shall make some general observations on the scope and design of it , which may give more light to the particulars to be handled in it . . that the infallibility you challenge to the church , is such as must suppose a promise extant of it in scripture : which is evident from the words of a. c. ( which you own ) to his lordship , that if he would consider the tradition of the church , not only as it is the tradition of a company of fallible men , in which sense the authority of it is humane and fallible , but as the tradition of a company of men assisted by christ and his holy spirit ; in that sense he might easily find it more than an introduction , indeed as much as would amount to an infallible motive . whence i inferr , that in order to the churches testimony being an infallible motive to faith , it must be believed that this company of men which make the church , are assisted by christ and his holy spirit ; now i demand , supposing there were no scripture extant , ( the belief of which you said before in defence of bellarmine , was not necessary to salvation ) by what means could you prove such an infallible assistance of the holy spirit in the catholick church in order to the perswading an infidel to believe ? could you to one that neither believes christ , nor the holy ghost , prove evidently that your church had an assistance of both these ? you tell him that he cannot believe that there is a christ or a holy ghost ▪ unless he believes first your church to be infallible , and yet he cannot believe your church to be infallible , unless he believes there are such things as christ and the holy ghost ; for that infallibility , by your own confession , doth suppose the peculiar assistance of both these . and can any one believe their assistance , before he believes they are ? if you say , as you do , by the motives of credibility you will prove your church infallible . but ( setting aside the absurdity of that which i have fully discovered already ) is it possible for you to prove your church infallible , unless antecedently to the belief of your churches infallibility , you can prove to an infidel the truth of these things ? . that the names of christ and the holy ghost , are no chimerical fancies and ideas , but that they do import something real : otherwise an infidel would speedily tell you , these names imported nothing but some kind of magical spells which could keep men from errour , as long as they carried them about with them . that as well might mahomet , or any other impostor , pretend an infallible assistance from some tutelar angels , with hard arabick names , as you of christ , and the holy ghost unless you can make it appear to him , that really there are such beings as christ and the holy ghost ; and when you have proved it to him , and he be upon your proof inclinable to believe it , you are bound to tell him by your doctrine , that for all these proofs , he can only fancy there are such beings , but he cannot really believe them , unless he first believes your church infallible . and when he tells you , he cannot , according to your own doctrine , believe that infallibility , unless he believes the other first , would he not cry out upon you , as either lamentable fools , that did not understand what you said , or egregious impostors , that play fast and loose with him , bidding him believe first one thing , and then another , till at last he may justly tell you , that in this manner he cannot be perswaded to believe any thing at all . . supposing he should get through this , and believe that there were such beings as christ and the holy ghost , he may justly ask you , . whether they be nothing else but such a kind of intellectus agens , as the arabick philosophers imagined , some kind of being which did assist the understanding in conception ? you answer him no , but they are real distinct personalities of the same nature and essence with god himself ; then he asks , . whence doth this appear ? for these being such grand difficulties , you had need of some very clear evidence of them : if you send him to scripture , he asks you , to what end ? for the belief of that must suppose the truth of the thing in question , that your church is infallible in delivery of this scripture for divine revelation . but he further demands , . whence comes that church which you call infallible to have this assistance of both these ? do they assist all kind of men to make them infallible ? you answer , no. but , do they assist , though not all men separately , yet all societies of men conjunctly ? you answer , no. do they assist all men only in religious actions , of what religion soever they are of ? still you answer , no. do they assist then all men of the christian religion in their societies ? no. do they assist all those among the christians , who say , they have this assistance ? no. do they thus assist all churches to keep them from errour ? no. whom is it then that they do thus infallibly assist ? you answer , the church . but what church do you mean ? the catholick church . but , which is this catholick church ( for , i hear , there are as great controversies about that , as any thing . ) you must answer confidently , that church which is in the roman communion , is the true catholick church . have then all in that communion this infallible assistance ? no. have all the bishops in this communion , it ? no. have all these bishops this assistance , when they meet together ? yes , say you , undoubtedly , if the pope be their head , and confirm their acts. then it should seem to me , that this infallible assistance is in the pope , and he it is whom you call the catholick church : but surely he is a very big man then , is he not ? but , say you , these are controversies which are not necessary for you to know , it sufficeth that the catholick church is the subject of infallibility . but , i had thought nothing could have been more necessary than to have known this : but i proceed then , how comes this catholick church to have this infallible assistance ? cannot i suppose that christ and the holy spirit may exist without giving this assistance ? cannot i suppose that christian religion may be in the world , without such an infallibility ? is this assistance therefore a necessary , or a free act ? a free act. if a free act , then , for all you know , your catholick church may not be so assisted : no , ( you reply ) you are sure it is so assisted . but , whence can you be sure of an arbitrary thing , unless the authours of this assistance have engaged themselves by promise , to give your catholick church that infallible assistance ? yes , that they have ( you reply ) and then produce luk. . . mat. . . joh. . . but , although our infidel might ask some untoward questions still ; as , how you are sure these are divine promises , when the knowledge that they are divine must suppose the thing to be true , which you would prove out of them , viz. that your church is infallible ? supposing them divine , how are you sure , that , and no other , is the meaning of them , when from such places you prove , that your church is the only infallible interpreter of scripture ? but , i let pass these , and other questions , and satisfie my self with this , that it is impossible for you to prove such an infallible assistance of christ and the holy spirit , unless you produce some express promise for it . . this being impossible , it necessarily follows , that the only motives of credibility , which can prove your church infallible , must be such as do antecedently prove these promises to be divine . this is so plain and evident a consectary from the former , that it were an affront upon humane understanding , to go about to prove it : for , if the infallibility doth depend upon the promise , nothing can prove that infallibility , but what doth prove that promise to be true and divine : true , or else not to be believed ; divine , or else not to be relyed on for such an assistance ; none else being able to make a promise of it , but the authour of it . as therefore my right to an estate as given by will , depends wholly upon the truth and validity of that will , which i must first prove , before i can challenge any right to it ; so your pretence of infallibility must solely depend upon the promises which you challenge it by . by which it appears , that your attempting to prove the infallibility of your church , by motives of credibility , antecedent to , and independent on the scripture , is vain , ridiculous , and destructive to that very infallibility which you pretend to . which , being by a free assistance of christ and his spirit , must wholly depend on the proof of the promise made of it . for , if you prove no promise , all your motives of credibility prove nothing at all , as i have at large demonstrated before , and shall not follow you in needless repetitions . . no right to any priviledge can be challenged , by virtue of a free promise made to particular persons , unless it be evident that the intention of the promiser was , that it should equally extend to them and others . for the promise being free , and the priviledge such as carries no necessity at all along with it , in order to the great ends of christian religion ; it is intolerable arrogance and presumption to challenge it , without manifest evidence , that the design of it was for them , as well as the persons to whom it was made . indeed , in such promises which are built on common and general grounds , containing things agreeable to all christians , it is but reasonable to inferr the universal extent of that promise to all such as are in the like condition . hence the apostle inferrs , from the particular promise made to joshua , i will never leave thee , nor forsake thee ; the effect of it upon all believers . although , had not the apostle done it before us , it may seem questionable on what ground we could have done it , unless from the general reason of of it , and the unbounded nature of divine goodness , in things necessary for the good of his people . but in things arbitrary , and such as contain special priviledge in them , to challenge a right to a promise of the same priviledge , without equal evidence of the descent of it , as the first grant , is great presumption , and a challenge of the promisor for partiality , if he doth not make it good . because the pretence of the right of the priviledge goes upon this ground , that it is as much due to the successor , as to the original grantee . . nothing can be more unreasonable , than to challenge a right to a priviledge , by virtue of such a promise which was granted upon quite different considerations from the grounds on which that right is challenged . thus i shall after make it evident , that the promise of an infallible assistance of the holy ghost , had a peculiar respect to the apostles present employment , and the first state of the church , that it was not made upon reasons common to all ages , viz. for the government of the church , deciding controversies , foundation of faith , all which ends may be sufficiently attained without them . but , above all , it seems very unreasonable , that a promise made to persons in one office , must be applied in the same manner to persons in a quite different office ; that a promise made to each of them separate , must be equally applied to others only as in council ; that a promise made implying divine assistance , must be equally applied to such , who dare not say , that assistance is divine ( but infallible , and after a sort divine ) that a promise made of immediate divine revelation , and enabling the persons who enjoyed the priviledge of it , to work miracles to attest their testimony to be infallible , should be equally applied to such as dare not challenge a divine revelation , nor ever did work a miracle to attest such an infallible assistance . yet all this is done by you in your endeavour of fetching the infallibility of your church , out of those promises of the assistance of christ and his spirit , which were made to the apostles . these general considerations , do sufficiently enervate the force of your whole chapter , which yet i come particularly to consider . his lordship tells a. c. that in the second sense of church-tradition , he cannot find that the tradition of the present church is of divine and infallible authority , till a. c. can prove that this company of men ( the roman prelates and clergy he means ) are so fully , so clearly , so permanently assisted by christ , and his spirit , as may reach to infallibility , much less to a divine infallibilility , in this or any other principle which they teach . in answer to this , you tell us , that the bishop declines the question by withdrawing his reader from the thesis , to the hypothesis ; from the church , to the church of rome . but , is it not sufficiently known to all persons who deal in this controversie , what you mean by the catholick church in this controversie , that it shall not be lawful for his lordship in a parenthesis , to shew where you place this infallibility , but he must be charged with declining the question ? this only shews a desire to cavil at little things , when you were unable to answer greater . besides , in the way you take of proving the churches infallibility by the motives of credibility , there is a necessity even in this controversie , of declaring what that catholick church is , which must be known by these motives ; and therefore you have no cause to look upon this as running away from the question . that a. c. after a long and silent attention , did meerly , through the heat of his zeal , become earnest in this business , to do his adversary good . i must believe it , because you tell me so , though i see no great motive of credibility for it . and on that account did desire him , to consider the tradition of the church , as of a company of men infallibly assisted . for such assistance ( you say ) is necessary as well to have sufficient assurance of the true canon of holy scripture , as to come to the true meaning and interpretation thereof . but this is as easily denied as said . we wait therefore for your proofs . that which only seems here intended for that end , is , that when the relator had said , the prophets under the old testament , and the apostles under the new , had such an infallible divine assistance ; but neither the high priest with his clergy in the old , nor any company of prelates or priests in the new , since the apostles , ever had it . to this you reply , that the like assistance ( with the prophets and apostles ) the high priest with his clergy had in the old testament , as we gather out of deut. . , &c. where in doubts the people were bound , not only to have recourse to the high priest and his clergy , but to submit and stand to their judgement . much more then ought we to think , that there is such an obligation in the new testament ; which could not stand without infallibility . witness the infinite dissentions and divisions in points of faith , amongst all the different christians that deny it . two things the force of this argument lyes in . . that there was infallibility in the high priest and his clergy under the law. . that if there were so then , there ought to be so now . both these must be considered . . that there was infallibility in the high priest and his clergy under the law , which you prove from deut. . . because there the people were not only to have recourse to them , but to submit and stand to their judgement . this argument in form , is this . where there is to be not only a recourse , but an obligation to submission , there must be infallibility ; but there were both these among the jews , as to the high priest and his clergy ; ergo . you may see how forcible this argument is in a like case : where there is to be not only a recourse in matters of difficulty , but an obligation to submit and stand to their judgement , there must be infallibility ; but to the parliament of england there ought to be not only a recourse in matters of difficulty , but a submission to their judgement ; therefore the parliament of england is as infallible as the high priest and clergy under the law , by the very argument by you produced . the same will hold for all courts of justice . but , can you by no means distinguish between an obligation to submission , and an obligation in conscience to assent to what is determined as infallibly true ? is every person in all judiciary cases , where submission is required , bound to believe the judges sentence infallible ? if so , we need not go over the alps for infallibility , we may have it much cheaper at home : but , i suppose you will reply , the case is very different , because in the text by you produced , . not civil matters , but religious are spoken of . . that not any civil magistrates , but the high priest and his clergy are the judges mentioned . . that not every kind of judgement , but an infallible judgement is there set down . but , if every one of these be false , you will see , what little advantage comes to your cause by this testimony ; which i shall in order demonstrate . . that this place speaks not of religious causes , as such ; but of civil causes , i. e. not of matters of doctrine to be decided as true or false , but matters of justice to be determined as to right and wrong . not but that some things concerning the ecclesiastical polity of the nation might be there decided ; for it was impossible in a nation , whose laws depended on their religion , to separate the one from the other : but , that the judgement given there , did not determine the truth and falshood of things , so as to oblige mens consciences to believe them ; but did so peremptorily decide them , that the persons concerned were bound to acquiesce in that determination . for the proof of this , one would think , the very reading of the place were sufficient . if there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgement , between blood and blood , between plea and plea , and between stroke and stroke , being matters of controversies within thy gates , then shalt thou arise and get thee up into the place which the lord thy god shall chuse , &c. which words are so generally expressed , on purpose to take in all manner of controversies which might rise among them , whether civil , criminal , or ceremonial . and herein god makes provision against any rupture which might be among them upon any emergent controversie , by establishing a court of appeals , to which all such causes should be brought , in which the lesser courts could not agree . for that seems to be the main scope of the words , by the following expression of controversies within thy gates , by which it seems evident , that the controversies were such as could come to no resolution in those inferiour courts which sate in the gates of the cities ; by which it appears , that these could be no momentous controversies of religion , which never came under the cognizance of those inferiour and subordinate courts . by these words then god doth erect a supreme court of judicature among them , to which they might appeal , not only in case of injury , but in case of difficulty ; and those lesser courts , as well as particular persons , were to submit to the decree of the great sanhedrin , sitting in the place which god should chuse , which was shilo first , and hierusalem after . and thence maimonides so often saith , that the establishment and coagmentation of all the israelites , did depend upon this place ; for hereby god set up such a tribunal , to which the last resort should be made , and from whose determinations there should remain no further appeal . and according to the tradition of the jews , these appeals were to be gradual , i. e. in case any priest should be to seek as to any ceremonial cause , as that of leprosie , brought before him , he was to take advice of the court of the triumvirate where he lived ; if that did not agree , then he was to appeal to the lesser sanhedrin of . in the neighbour-city , if there it could not be ended to the sanhedrin of . at the entrance of the mount of the temple ; if not there neither , then appeal was made to the great sanhedrin , whose sentence was final and peremptory , and was instead of a law in the case . . you are greatly mistaken in supposing that all this is spoken of the high priest and his clergy : i deny not but express mention is made of the priests and levites , as those who were supposed most acquainted with all matters of difference which should happen among them ; and therefore were probably the greatest part of the great sanhedrin ( for it is a groundless fancy to suppose two distinct courts , the one civil , and the other ecclesiastical among the jews . ) nay the high priest himself was so far from being the constant president of this court , that , if we believe the tradition of the jews , he was not admitted to sit there , without the same previous examination and tryal which others underwent . indeed , in the decay of the jewish polity , in the time of the assomanean family , the chief civil power was in the hands of the high priest , on which account he might then preside in the sanhedrin , but that is nothing to this place , where mention is made vers . . of the priests and levites , and then of the judge , which is , in case god should raise up among them an extraordinary person , who should be judge over israel , then the appeals might be to him ; but otherwise v. . they were to do according to the sentence , which they of that place which the lord shall chuse , shall shew thee , which was the great sanhedrin . according therefore to the sentence of this court , whether pronounced by a priest , or other , they were to act ; and they that refused were punished with death . . whoever the persons were , who gave this sentence , yet it was not looked on as infallible ; for it is not said , whosoever doth not believe the judgement given , to be infallibly true ; but , whosoever acts contumaciously in opposition to it . and the man that will do presumptuously , and will not hearken unto the priest , or unto the judge , even that man shall dye . besides , we are so far from reading of any promise of infallibility made to the high priest and his clergy , or to the sanhedrin , that god himself doth suppose a possibility of errour in the whole congregation of israel , levit. . . and all along the books of the prophets , we see how much god chargeth the priests with ignorance , and forsaking his way . and , i pray , where was that infallibility of the high priest and his clergy , not only when our blessed saviour was condemned by him , and the sanhedrin both ; but in that time , when israel for a long season had been without the true god , and without a teaching priest , and without law. so that we see what very little relief you have out of this place for the infallibility of the high priest and his clergy . but , suppose we should grant them infallible , and that infallibility proved from this place , what is that to us ? might not you as well challenge the oracular responses by vrim and thummim to belong to you , as the high priests infallibility , supposing he had any ? if god thought it fit to make them infallible , and gave such express command concerning obedience and submission to their judgement , is it not very reasonable to think , that under the gospel there should be express mention made of the subject of this infallibility , the place whither we should resort for final judgements , as there is here ? nay , had it not been far more necessary to have specified and determined these circumstances , since they are of such vast importance for the peace of the christian world ? how easily had all our debates been ended , if god had said any where in the new testament , when any controversie of faith ariseth , go to the place which i shall chuse , viz. rome , and there enquire the judgement of the bishop that shall sit there , and whatever he determines , that believe as infallibly true ; if we had met with any thing so express , nay , that had any seeming tendency this way , how readily should we submit our controversies to his determination ? but , when there is so little ground or foundation for it there , that you are fain to deduce your infallibility , from gods settling a court of appeals among the jews ; can you think that we are presumptuous , and deserve to be cut off , if we do not believe ? for , for all that i know , you may challenge the sanction of the law , as well as the priviledge of it ; and your former practises would perswade us , that you believe the sanction to be as valid as the other . but ( say you ) the infinite dissentions and divisions among those that deny it , make this necessary . . i pray , doth your pretence of infallibility put an end to all your divisions ? nay , are there not many among your selves , raised meerly on the account of this infallibility ? have not many among you , grown so weary of it , that they have wished the name had never been mentioned ? are not others so ashamed of the thred-bare impertinent places of scripture , commonly produced , that they have ventured the censure of your church for disowning them , and have sheltered themselves under the infallibility of vniversal tradition ? have not some ingenuously confessed , that there is no avoiding the circle on the common grounds ? are those no differences at all concerning the subject of infallibility , and the superiority of pope and council ? happy men ! that have so many coincident distinctions , and such agreeing differences ! . were there not dissentions and divisions in the apostles times ? and , had it not been , think you , much better for the apostle , instead of saying , there must be heresies or divisions among you , that they which are approved , may be made manifest , have told them , there must be an infallible judge among you , that there may be no heresies or divisions ? if you had been at his elbow , what prudent advise you would have given s. paul for ending all the divisions in the corinthian , colossian , galatian churches , & c ! you must have told him , that it was to very little purpose to wooe them by the many arguments he useth to exhort them so often to unity , and chide them as carnal , while they had dissentions , when one word of an infallible judge had ended all of them . but , poor s. paul knew of no such thing , which made him give as good counsels , as the spirit of god directed him to ; but alas , they were but sorry things in comparison of an infallible judge . give us leave therefore to reckon our selves among those primitive christians , who knew no more than we of any such way to end differences , as infallibility in a constant judge , for all they had dissentions and divisions among them as well as we . but you are very angry with his lordship for taxing this pretence of infallibility with insolency , and a design to lord it over the faith of christendom . and therefore tell him , you go no further than christ himself leads you by promises made of this infallibility ; that is the thing in question , and must not be taken upon the trust of your infallibility , in interpreting the places by you alledged . when you can prove the pastors of your church , to be as infallible as the apostles were , and to have the same spirit which they had , i shall as little suspect them of lording it over others as the apostles : but if it appear quite otherwise as to the pastors of your church ; name , if you can , a greater insolency , than to usurp a power of prescribing to the faith of the christian world . as to what follows concerning your churches testimony , being again infallible by the assistance of christ and his spirit , and yet not divinely infallible , it is so subtle and scholastical a distinction , that i now begin , not to admire your so often using it ; for i see plainly , if that wedge , how blunt soever , doth not rive asunder the knot , it is like to remain for any thing you have to say to it . his lordship having given one instance of the insolency of your pretence of infallibility , by the dangerous errours which your church doth hold , particularly in equalling the tradition of the present church to the written word of god , which ( saith he ) is a doctrine unknown to the primitive church , and which frets upon the very foundation it self , by justling with it . but , being well acquainted with the arts of your party in making a great noise with the fathers , and particularly in this controversie , with a citation out of s. basils books de spirit ▪ sanct. ad amphilochium , and especially those words , parem vim habent ad pictatem , speaking of traditions ; he therefore in his margent so far takes notice of them , as to return this threefold answer to to them . . that he speaks of apostolical tradition , and not the tradition of the present church . . that exceptions are taken at this book as corrupted . . that s. basil makes scripture the touchstone of tradition . to this you return a threefold answer . . that 't is true , he speaks of apostolical traditions , but of such as were come down to their present times . . that the exceptions against the book are unreasonable . . that s. basil doth not make the scripture so to be the touchstone of tradition , as that scripture must needs therefore be of greater force and superiour dignity than that of tradition . because therefore this is the chief place in antiquity which is produced on your side in behalf of traditions , it will deserve a more careful examination in the particulars by you mentioned . . you acknowledge that he speaks of apostolical traditions , and such as the present church judged apostolical ; now you say that the present church is infallible in judging apostolical traditions , and what traditions are so judged are necessary to be practised . now i pray consider what difficulties and self-contradictions you have brought your self into , by acknowledging these traditions to have been judged apostolical by the present church . for either that church at that time was not infallible in judging traditions , and so the present church of every age is not infallible ; or if that was infallible , yours is not ; for your church differs from the church in st. basils time about these very traditions by him mentioned , your church not judging them apostolical . which will appear by an inspection into those things which are here accounted traditions by him . among which he not only mentions signing believers with the sign of the cross , praying toward the east , the oyl and the abrenunciation used in baptism , but the consecration of the person to be baptized , the standing at prayers untill pentecost , and above all , the trine immersion in baptism , all which he saith come 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , out of a secret and unpublished tradition , which our fathers preserved in a quiet and silent manner . are these three last then acknowledged by your church now for apostolical traditions or no ? nay doth not your roman catechism absolutely pronounce the trine immersion to be unnecessary for baptism . how can that become unnecessary , which was once infallibly judged to be an apostolical tradition ? either the church then was out in her judgement , or your church out in hers ? and choose whether of those you have the more mind to ? either of them will help you to contradict your self . . there want not sufficient reasons of suspecting that book to be corrupted . you say erasmus was the first who suspected it . not the first who suspected corruption in st. basils writings . for marcus ephesius in the florentine council charged some latinizing greeks with corrupting his books against eunomius , protesting that in constantinople there were but four copies to above one thousand which had the passages in them , which were produced by the latins . but suppose erasmus were the first : was he not so in discovering the genuine and supposititious writings of several others of the fathers . we must therefore enquire into the reason which erasmus had of this suspicion ; who tells us in his epistle to john dantiscus the poland embassadour , that by that time he had gone through half this work , he discerned a palpable inequality in the style , sometimes swelling to a tragical height , and then sinking into a vulgar flatness , having much more of ostentation , impertinent digressions , repetitions , than any of st. basils own writings which had alwaies a great deal of vigour , simplicity and candour , with great evenness and equality , &c. and although this argument to all that know the worth of that excellent person , especially in his judgement of the writings of the fathers will seem by no means contemptible , yet we have much greater reason for our suspicion than this meerly from the stile . for if you believe st. basil was a man who knew how to speak consistencies , that he would not utter palpable and evident contradictions in his writings ; you will have no reason to applaud your self in this as a genuine piece of st. basils , at least for the latter part of it . for whereas you make this the force of his words , that unwritten traditions have equal force to stir up piety , with the written word : you could hardly have named so many words which bear a greater face of contradiction to a multitude of testimonies in his unquestionably genuine writings . for , is it not st. basil who saith , that it is a manifest falling from the faith , and an argument of arrogancy , either to reject any point of those things that are written , or to bring in any of those things that are not written ? is it not st. basil who bids a man believe the things that are written , and seek not the things that are not written ? is it not the same st. basil , who saith , that every word and action ought to be confirmed by the testimony of holy scripture , for confirmation of the faith of the good , and confusion of the evil ? is it not he who urgeth that very place to this purpose , whatsoever is not of faith is sin ; then whatsoever is without the holy scripture , being not of faith , is sin . which at least must be understood of such things which men have an opinion of piety and necessity in the doing of . these and many other places may be produced out of his genuine writings attesting the clean contrary to what you produce this place for . what then must we think of him ? must we say of him as he did of gregory thaumaturgus , that he spoke some things not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not as though he believed them ; but for disputation sake , because they served his purpose well ? or rather , have we not much greater reason considering the contrariety of ●he doctrine , as well as inequality of style , to follow erasmus his judgement concerning this book ? especially considering that bellarmin himself , who slights erasmus his judgement herein ; yet , when he is pinched with a citation out of his asceticks , calls the sincerity of that book into question , because he doth not therein seem to admit of unwritten traditions , which ( saith he ) ad amphilochium he doth strenuously defend . if therefore he may question another book for not agreeing with this , we may more justly question this for disagreeing with so many others . thus you see , it is not meerly the style , and that only on the judgement of erasmus , which makes this book suspicious . and from those citations produced out of other writings of st. basil , the ( . ) thing evidently appears , viz. that he so makes the scripture the touchstone of all traditions , as that scripture must be incomparably of greater force and superiour dignity , than any unwritten tradition whatsoever . but whether stapleton in his testimony meant primarily apostolical traditions , or others , is not worth the enquiring . concerning what follows , as to the sincerity and agreement of ancient copies of scripture , and the means to be assured of the integrity of them , i have sufficiently expressed my self already . only what you add concerning the integrity of traditions above the scripture , being new , deserves to be considered . for , ( say you ) universal traditions are recorded in authours of every succeeding age : and it seems much more incident to have errours s●ip into writings of so great bulk as is the bible , which in their editions pass only through the hands of particular men , then that there should be errours in publick , universal , and immemorial traditions , which are openly practised throughout christendom , and taken notice of by every one in all ages . and from hence you instance in st. johns epistle , or st. lukes gospel , which being originally written to particular persons , must be at first received as authentical upon their credit : but , on the other side , apostolical traditions ( for which you instance in the observation of the lords day , infant-baptism , use of altars , &c. ) in their prime institution and practise being publickly practised and owned by the apostles ; it was incomparably harder , morally speaking , to doubt in the beginning of these traditions , then whether st. johns epistle , or st. lukes gospel were really theirs or no. whence we see some books that were written by apostles were questioned for some time , but these and such like traditions , were alwayes owned , as truely and really descending from the apostles . to which i answer , . if you prove not some tradition thus universally owned and received which we have no record of , or ground for the observation of from scripture , you speak nothing at all to the purpose ; but two of those you instance in , observation of the lords day , and paedobaptism , we have as much as is requisite for the churches practise from scripture it self ; for the other , of the vse of altars , it were a work becoming you to deduce the history of them from the apostolical times , beginning at the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or upper room where the apostles met after christs ascension , and so tracing them through all the private houses and synagogues in which the christians in the apostles times had their solemn assemblies for divine worship ; thence bringing down the history of them carefully through all the persecutions , and producing evidences to that purpose , out of tertullian , origen , minutius felix , and arnobius , only blotting out non where they speak of altars and temples among christians , and telling us that some protestants had corrupted their books ; that where they utterly disown them , they did highly magnifie them ; that where they seemed to speak most against them , it was not to let the heathens know that they had them : by this means indeed you are like to acquaint us with some vniversal tradition less lyable to corruption and alteration than the scriptures . for this of altars is the only thing by you mentioned , which seems any thing to your purpose , the other two being sufficiently proved from scripture ; which acquaints us so much with apostolical practise , as to yield abundant reason for the practise of following ages . you do well therefore to wrap up all other such traditions as might vye with the scriptures for integrity , with a prudent &c. for you cannot but know that this game of tradition is quite spoiled , if we offer to come to particulars . but it is a fine thing in general to talk of the impossibility of corrupting such a tradition as had its rise from the practise of the apostles , and was by them delivered to succeeding ages , and so was universally practised by all christians as derived from the apostles ; but when we put but that sullen demand , that such a thing as hath no evidence in scripture may be named which was so universally received and owned as the scriptures are , how many put off's , and & c.'s . do we meet with all ? for fear of being evidently disproved in the particular instanced in . . if there be so much greater evidence for tradition than scripture , whence came the very next ages to the apostles to be so doubtful as to traditions , which yet were agreed in receiving the scripture ? i speak not of such things , which we have not the least evidence the apostles ever thought of , much less universally practised , ( such as we contend the things in controversie between you and us are ) but in such things which undoubtedly the apostles did practise , so as that the christians of that age could not but know such a practise of theirs . as in that controversie which soon rise in the church , about the day of the observation of easter ; what contests soon grew between the asian and roman christians about this , both equally pretending apostolical tradition , and that at the least distance imaginable from the apostolical times ? for polycarpe professed to receive his tradition from st. john , as those at rome from st. peter . if then traditions be so uncapable of falsification and corruption , how came they to be so much to seek , as to what the apostolical tradition was in the very next age succeeding the apostles ? what , could not those who lived in st. johns and st. peters time know what they did ? could they be deceived themselves , or had they an intent to deceive their posterity ? if some of them did falsifie tradition so soon , we see what little certainty there is in the deriving a tradition from the apostles : if neither falsified , then it should seem there was no universal practise of the apostles concerning it , but they looked on it as a matter of indifferency , and some might practise one way , and some another . if so , then we are yet further to seek for an vniversal tradition of the apostles , binding succeeding ages . for can you possibly think the apostles did intend to bind unalterably succeeding ages in such things which they used a liberty in themselves ? if then it be granted , that in matters of an indifferent nature the apostles might practise severally as they saw occasion , how then can we be certain of the apostles universal practise in matters of an indifferent nature ? if we cannot so , we can have no evidence of an vniversal tradition of the apostles , but in some things which they judged necessary . but whence shall we have this unquestionable evidence , first that they did such things , and secondly , that they did them with an apprehension of the necessity of them , and with an intention to oblige posterity by their actions ? by what rule or measure must we judge of this necessity ? by their vniversal practise ? but that brings us into a plain circle ; for we must judge of the necessity of it by their vniversal practise , and we must prove that vniversal practise by the necessity of the thing . for , if the thing were not judged necessary , the apostles might differ in their practise from one another . whence then shall we prove any practise necessary , unless built on some unal●erable ground of reason , and then it is not formally an apostolical tradition , but the use of that common reason and prudence in matters of a religious nature : or else by some positive law and institution of theirs ; and this , supposing it unwritten , must be evidenced from something distinct from their practise , or else you must assert , that whatever the apostles did , they made an unalterable law for ; or lastly , you must quit all vnwritten traditions as vniversal , and must first inferr the necessity , and then the vniversality of their practise from some record extant in scripture , and then you can be no further certain of any vniversal practise of the apostles , then you are of the scriptures : by which it will certainly appear that the scripture is farr more evident and credible , then any vniversal unwritten tradition . a clear and evident instance of the uncertainty of knowing apostolical traditions in things not defined in scripture is one of those you instance in your self , viz. that of rebaptizing hereticks which came to be so great a controversie , so soon after the apostolical age. for though this controversie rose to its height in st. cyprians time , which was about a. d. . yet it was begun some competent time before that . for st. cyprian , in his epistle to jubaianus , where he gives an account of the general council of the provinces of africa and numidia consisting of seventy one bishops , endeavours to remove all suspicion of novelty from their opinion , for ( saith he ) it is no new or sudden thing among us to judge that those ought to be baptized , who come to the church from hereticks ; for now many years are past , and a long time , since , under agrippinus , the bishops meeting together did determine it in council , and thousands of hereticks have voluntarily submitted to it . how far off could that be from the apostolical times , which was done so long before cyprians ? and , although s. augustine ( as it was his interest so to do ) would make this to have been but a few years ; yet we have greater evidence both of the greater antiquity , and larger spread of this opinion . whereby we may see , how little the judgement of vincentius lyrinensis is to relyed on as to traditions , who gives agrippinus such hard words , for being the first who , against scripture , the rule of the vniversal church , the judgement of all his fellow-priests , the custom of his ancestors , did assert the rebaptization of hereticks . how little truth there is in what vincentius here saies , and consequently , how little certainty in his way of finding out traditions , will appear from the words of dionysius of alexandria , in his epistle to philemon and dionysius concerning this subject . for therein he asserts , that long before that custom obtained in africa , the same was practised and decreed in the most famous churches both at iconium , synada , and other places . on which account this great person professeth , that he durst not condemn their opinion who held so . whether this synod at iconium were the same with that mentioned by firmilian , is not so certain , but , if it were , that can be no argument against the antiquity of it . for , although firmilian say , that we long ago , meeting in iconium , from galatia , cilicia , and the neighbour regions have confirmed the same , viz. that hereticks should be baptized ; yet , as the learned valesius observes , the pronoune we , is not to be understood of firmilian's person , but of his predecessors ; and therefore checks both baronius and binius for placing that synod , a. d. . we see therefore , this opinion was so largely spread , that not only the churches in africa , numidia , and mauritania favoured it , but almost all the eastern christians . for dionysius in an epistle to xystus , who succeeded stephanus at rome , wherein he pleads for moderation as to this controversie , and desires him more throughly to consider the weight of the business , and not proceed so rashly as stephanus had done ; he tells him in conclusion , that he writ not this of himself , but at the request of the several bishops of antioch , caesarea , aelia , tyre , laodicea , tarsus , &c. nay , and as it appears by firmilians epistle , they made no question but this custom of theirs descended from christ and his apostles : for telling cyprian , that in such places where the other custom had been used , they did well to oppose truth to custom ; but we ( saith he ) joyn truth and custom together , and to the custom of the romans , we oppose the custom of truth , holding that from the beginning , which was delivered by christ and his apostles . and therefore adds , neither do we remember when this practice began , seeing it was alwaies observed among us . and thence charges the church of rome , in that epistle , with violating that , and several other traditions of the apostles . but vincentius lyrinensis still takes stephens part ; and all that he hath to say , is , that that is the property of christian modesty and gravity , not to deliver their own opinions to their posterity , but to retain the tradition of their fore-fathers . as though the other side could not say the same things , and with as much confidence as they did : but all the question was , what that tradition was which they were to retain ? the one said one thing , and the other another . but , as rigaltius well observes , vincentius speaks very truly and prudently , if nothing were delivered by our ancestors , but what they had from the apostles ; but , under the pretence of our ancestors , silly or counterfeit things may by fools or knaves be delivered us for apostolical traditions . and whether this doth not often come to pass , let the world judge . now therefore , when these persons on both sides had incomparably greater advantages of knowing what the vniversal apostolical practice was than we can have , and yet so irreconcilably differ about it , what likelihood or probability is there , that we may have greater certainty of apostolical tradition , than of the writings of the apostles ? especially in such matters as these are , in which it is very questionable , whether the apostles had any occasion ministred to them , to determine any thing in them . and therefore when stephen at rome , and those of his party pleaded custom , and consequently , as they thought , apostolical tradition ; it was not irrationally answered on the other side by cyprian and firmilian , that that might be , because the apostles had not occasion given them to declare their minds in it , because either the heresies were not of such a nature as those of marcion and cerdon , or else there might not be such returnings from those heresies in the apostolical times to the church ; which being of so black a nature , as to carry in them such malignity , by corrupting the lives of men by vicious practices , there was less probability either of the true christians apostatizing into them , or the recovery of such who were fallen into them . to this purpose firmilian speaks , that the apostles could not be supposed to prohibit the baptizing of such which came from the hereticks , because no man would be so silly , as to suppose the apostles did prohibit that which came not in question till afterwards . and therefore s. augustine , who concerned himself the most in this controversie , when he saw such ill use made of it by the donatists , doth ingenuously confess , that the apostles did determine nothing at all in it ; but however ( saith he ) that custom which is opposed to cyprian , is to be believed to have its rise from the apostles tradition ; as there are many other things observed in the church , and on that account are believed to have been commanded by the apostles , although they are no where found written . but , what cogent argument doth s. austin use to perswade them this was an apostolical tradition ? he grants , they determined nothing in it , yet would needs have it believed , that an vniversal practice of succeeding ages , should imply such a determination , though unwritten . but , . the vniversal practice we have seen already , was far from being evident , when not only the african , but the eastern church did practise otherwise , and that on the account of an apostolical tradition too . . supposing such an vniversal practice , how doth it thence follow , that it must be derived from the apostles ; unless it be first proved , that the church could never consent in the use of any thing , but what the apostles commanded them ? which is a very unreasonable supposition , considering the different emergencies which might be in the churches of apostolical and succeeding times , and the different reasons of practice attending upon them , with that great desire which crept into the church of representing the things conveyed by the gospel in an external symbolical manner , whence , in the second century , came the use of many baptismal ceremonies , the praegustatio mellis & lactis , as tertullian calls it , and several of a like nature , which , by degrees , came into the church : must we now derive these , and many other customs of the church necessarily from the apostles , when , even in s. austins time , several customs were supposed to be grounded on apostolical tradition , which yet are otherwise believed now . as in that known instance of infants participation of the eucharist , which is otherwise determined by the council of trent ; and , for all that i know , the arguments used against this tradition by some men , may as well hold against infant-baptism ; for there is an equal incapacity as to the exercise of all acts of reason and understanding in both : and , as the scripture seems to suppose such acts of grace in one as have their foundation in the use of reason , it doth likewise in the other , and i cannot see sufficient evidence to the contrary ; but if that place , except a man be born of water , and of the spirit , he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven , taken in the sense of the fathers , doth imply a necessity of baptism for all , and consequently of children ; that other place , verily , verily , i say unto you , except ye eat the flesh of the son of man , and drink his blood , ye have no life in you , taken likewise in the sense of the fathers , will import the necessity of a participation of the eucharist by infants as well as others . i speak not this with an intention to plead either for this , or for the rebaptizing hereticks , but to shew the great uncertainty of knowing apostolical traditions ; some things having been taken for such , which we believe were not so , and others which could not be known whether so or no , by the ages next succeeding the apostles . and therefore let any reasonable person judge what probability there is in what you drive at , that apostolical traditions may be more easily known than apostolical writings . by which it appears , ( . ) how vain and insufficient your reasons are , why traditions should not be so liable to corruption as the scriptures . . you say , vniversal traditions are recorded in authours of every succeeding age ; and it seems more incident to have the bible corrupted than them , because of its bulk and passing through the hands of particular men ; whereas universal and immemorial traditions , are openly practised and taken notice of by every one in all ages . to which i answer , . that you give no sufficient reason why the bible should be corrupted . . and as little why traditions should be more preserved than that . two accounts you give why the bible might be corrupted by errours , because of its bulk , and passing through the hands of particular men . but , do you think it a thing impossible , or at least unreasonable , to suppose that a book of no greater bulk than the bible , should , by the care and vigilancy of men , through the assistance of divine providence , be preserved from any material corruptions or alterations ? surely , if you think so , you have mean thoughts of the christians in all ages , and meaner of divine providence : for , you must suppose god to take no care at all for the preservation of a monument of unspeakable concernment to the good of mankind ; and you must conceive the christians , in all ages , to be stupendiously careless and negligent , either in transcribing , or reading the scriptures , which could suffer errours to slip into them , without discovery of them . do you think that the christians had no higher esteem of the scriptures , than of the vse of altars , or any other of your immemorial traditions ; but , say you , the one were publick , and the other passed through the hands of particular men . it should seem then , their altars were upon high places , but the scriptures were only read in corners , never any such thing being publickly read as the bible , so that any alteration might be there , and no notice at all taken of it . the poor african bishop found the contrary to his sorrow , who was in such danger from the people , for altering but one word according to s. hieroms translation , as s. austin reports the story . but , suppose it passed through the hands of particular men , was it therefore more liable to be corrupted ? i should think just the contrary ; unless you could suppose all those particular men to agree in corrupting it , which , considering the difference of opinions , capacities , and interests , is a most unreasonable supposition ; that some verbal and literal mistakes might slip in , you might rationally imagine , but that therefore any great corruptions should creep into it , argues your mean thoughts both of gods providence , and the care of the christian world . well , but still it is impossible to corrupt your traditions . it were a much harder matter to free your traditions from being corruptions themselves of the purity of the christian church . and why so hard for them to be corrupted ? because recorded in authours of every succeeding age . i had thought , all books of equal , or much bigger bulk than the scripture , had been as liable to corruption as that ; but it seems not . if a book be written of traditions , the very traditions will preserve it pure , though as big as that livy , quem mea vix totum bibliotheca capit : but that is not all , it seems , these traditions are recorded in authours of every succeeding age : unhappy men we , that cannot find them there ! i wish , instead of writing controversies , you would write the history of these traditions ; but , be sure to deduce them through the authours of every succeeding age ; and , i suppose , you mean , ever since the apostles . i shall then indeed believe popish traditions to be no novelties , but not before . but , let us grant this : were not the scriptures attested by the same authours ? no , it seems , they were agreed about all traditions , but not so about the scripture . and the reason is , because the scriptures were first delivered to private men , as s. john 's epistle , and s. luke 's gospel ; but traditions had an universal practice . but , can you suppose it otherwise , but that particular books must be first delivered to private men ? would you have them delivered only to general councils , or the pope and his cardinals ? it seems , s. john was to blame for not directing his epistle to the pope , instead of gaius ; and s. luke his gospel to a general council , instead of theophilus ; for then we might have had infallible certainty of them ; but now it is a plain case , we can have no more than moral certainty that ever they were theirs . but , for this trick , it seems , they fared the worse ; for some books were doubted of , for many years , in particular churches . it is well yet , they were not discarded by your catholick church , because the apostles did not put their books into your hands to recommend them . but what if some books , by some men , were for some time doubted of , which yet were afterwards universally received upon sufficient evidence ? why then ( say you ) tradition hath much advantage of scripture ? how so ? was no tradition , which would be accounted universal , doubted of by any men at any time ? no ( say you ) it is impossible it should , for universal traditions were universally practised at all times . now you speak home ; and nothing wants to the proof of it , but only to let us know , what these vniversal traditions are , which were so universally practised in all ages , containing things different from scripture , which are recorded in the authours of every succeeding age. your offer is so fair , that my request shall be very short ; name them , and prove them , and i will believe you , but not before . so much for this , which , though a digression in this chapter , yet is not from the design of this discourse . setting aside therefore your discourse about a. c ' s. pen being troubled , in which is nothing worth our notice ; i come to the main dispute of this chapter , which is , whether the promises of infallibility made to the apostles , are to be restrained to their own times , or to be extended to the present church in all ages ? we assert the former , and you the latter . for which you produce this argument , that from these very places , christians do inferr , that the church shall never fall away and perish . for if the assistance be not to preserve the succeeding church , at least from some kind of errours infallibly ; it may , notwithstanding all the assistance he allows it here , fall into all kind of errours one after another , and so by degrees , the whole church might fall into a general apostacy , and thereby perish . there must therefore be some kind of infallible assistance in the apostles successors , by virtue of these promises . but , . is it all one to say , there shall alwaies be a church , and to say , that church shall alwaies be infallible ? those , who from the places in question , do prove , that the church shall never quite fall away , do not dream of a present infallibility in your sense , but that there alwaies shall be a number of men professing christianity in the world : and , cannot you possibly conceive , that there should be such a number of men professing christianity without infallibility ? to help therefore your understanding a little ; suppose that all the members of the roman church should in one age be destroyed ( and , according to your former principle , that if a church may erre , we cannot be certain but that it doth erre ; because this may be , we cannot be certain but that it is ) but we only make the supposition : do not you think that there would be still a number remaining , who profess christianity , of the greek and protestant churches ? yet , i hope , you will not say , that these were infallible . there may be then a number of christians , who are not infallible ; and that is all which is meant by saying , that the present church is infallible in fundamentals , viz. that there shall alwaies be a church , for that which makes them a church , is the belief of fundamentals ; and if they believe not them , they cease to be so . that therefore which being supposed , a church is , and being destroyed , it ceaseth to be , is the formal constitution of it ; but thus it is as to the church , the belief of fundamentals makes it a church , and the not belief of them makes them cease to be a christian church ; i speak of an essential , and not of an organical church ; and , i know not who those persons are , who , out of those places , do inferr the perpetuity of an organical church ; nor , if they did , doth it thence follow , they must suppose an infallible assistance , beyond an essential to make it an organical church . for i cannot imagine what necessity can be supposed of infallibility , in order to that which may be sufficiently constituted without it . . i answer , the perpetuity of the church doth rather argue the infallibility of the promise then of the church . which if you did consider , you would not certainly inferr infallibility from a promise of perpetuity . for all the infallibility supposable in this case is an infallibility of accomplishment of the promise made . as in a clear and parallel instance of that promise , the scepter shall not depart from judah , nor a lawgiver from between his feet , untill shiloh come . taking it in the most received interpretation among christians , that the jewish polity should remain till the dayes of the messias ; doth this inferr , that there should be a continual infallibility in the jewish polity , because there was a promise made of its perpetuity ? when god saith , in jerusalem have i set my name for ever , doth it follow that jerusalem should be alwayes infallible ? but how would you triumph beyond all reason , if you had but any thing like such a promise for rome , as that is for jerusalem ? supposing then that the promises by you insisted on , should be so far extended , as to imply a perpetuity of a christian church what doth that argue , but only this , that to make it appear that promise is infallibly true , there shall alwaies be a succession of christians in the world . . suppose i should grant that the being of a christian church doth suppose the assistance of gods spirit , is there no assistance , but what is infallible ? if not , no one can be a christian without infallibility ; for we speak of no other assistance , but what is necessary to make men christians ; for , what makes them such severally , take them conjunctly makes them a church . but if you , besides what assistance is requisite to make them christians , do suppose somewhat more to make them a church , i pray name what it is ; and whatever it be , it will not be owned by such who inferr a perpetuity of a church out of these places . but if in order to that no more be meant , ( as no more can be meant ) then what is necessary to make men christians then infallibility will grow so cheap and common , it will not be worth challenging by you for your church . . suppose i grant this assistance to be infallible , doth all infallible assistance make an infallible testimony ? i am sure not in their sense , who say the church is infallible in fundamentals , for they never offer to assert that the present church is infallible in defining what are fundamentals , and what not . and this is the only infallibility in question , viz. such a one as makes the testimony of those who have it infallible . for such a kind of assistance was that of the apostles , which is only the thing enquired after . if you can therefore prove such an infallibility in your churches testimony , as the apostles had , you do something ; but what is short of this , is nothing at all to the purpose . . suppose i should grant the testimony of the catholick church to be infallible , yet all these concessions were nothing for your advantage , unless you could as evidently prove that your church is the only catholick church . which that you can never do , will appear when we come to that question . . suppose i should yield the catholick churches testimony to be infallible , and your church to be the catholick church ; yet all this is far from proving pope , or council , or both to be infallible . for , by what means come they to claim the infallibility as belonging to them which is given to the church ? by what deeds are the conveyances settled of the priviledges of the church to them ? where is it ever said in scripture , or in the least intimated , that the promises made to the church are to be understood of the representative church ? the apostles had this promise in their personal capacities made to them , and not in a representative ; how comes then the promise to be understood of a representation afterwards ? thus you see , that you are at least six removes from any title to claim this infallibility from these promises by : and therefore you have little hopes that your claim should be admitted upon so slender a title . from this therefore at present you fly off , to the vindicating a. c. from asserting infallibility belonging to all the doctors and pastors of the church ; which yet is a very good design to vindicate a man from his own words . for are they not as express as may be , viz. that there is the promise of christ , and his holy spirits continual presence , luk. . . matth. . , . joh. . . not only to the apostles , but to their successours also , the lawfully sent pastours and doctors of the church in all ages . to which his lordship saith , here 's a deal of infallibility indeed , and yet errour store . you presently cry out , but what shall we say to an adversary that forges what chimerical doctrine he pleases , and then fights against it . what chimerical doctrine is that which he forges ? doth he not relate a. c's . words ? and do you , or can you , deny them to be his words ? but say you , this was not his meaning . i suppose you mean , that his words as they are , are not defensible , and therefore you must have a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for them : which is , that he did not understand these words of every doctor apart , but of pastors and doctors lawfully assembled in oecumenical councils . but , . are pastors and doctors never lawfully sent , but when they are in oecumenical councils ? for it is plain a. c. speaks of them as lawfully sent . . have pastors and doctors met in oecumenical councils in all ages ? i would you could prove a truly oecumenical council in any age ; but sure you never pretend to it in all ages , yet if a. c's . words have any sense in them , they speak of such an infallibility , as belongs to the church in all ages . and therefore this plaister is a great deal too narrow to cover the sore . but say you , every authour is to be understood to mean by his words , what they will properly bear ; and is consonant with the meaning of his other words . i most freely grant you this and all that follows , if you will prove it impossible for any man to speak non-sense , or contradictions ; but i can more easily prove it very possible for a man to speak things which contradict one the other , which i have sufficiently proved from your own dear self in this very discourse of infallibility . what follows concerning the jesuits pretence of infallibility to themselves ( proved by his lordship , from the words of the apologist , to whom casaubon replies in his epistle to fronto ducaeus , which are these , let day and night — life and death be joyned together , and then there will be some hope that heresie may fall upon the person of a jesuite ) is very well worth the observing , were it only for that rare and incomparable answer , which you make to them . in which , it is hard to guess whether your ingenuity or your wit surpass the other . rabbi casaubon , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , must help him out . an apologist saith casaubon averres , 't is impossible for a jesuite to err . who is this anonymus apologist ? a jesuite or a minister ? for an apologist and a jesuite , are no more convertible terms , than a jesuite and a minister . how shall we know then , whether this nameless apologist was a jesuite , or a minister personating a jesuite ? the gospel will tell us : ex fructibus eorum cognoscetis eos . o rare drollery ! doth this pass for wit at rome ? or must we think you speak these words in good earnest ? if so , your ignorance is more then ordinary in these matters . for to pass by your unworthy reflection on that excellent person isaac casaubon , whose memory is as farr above your detraction , as his learning beyond your reach ; and , to let go your scurrilous greek proverb , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( which some will tell you was greek for a jesuite ) are you really so ignorant , that you did not know whether the apologist , whose words are cited , were a jesuite or a minister ? what not he , who professedly undertakes the vindication of the jesuites ? not he , who was so seriously recommended by fronto ducaeus a jesuite himself ? not he , who industriously vindicates ribadeneira , scribanius , emanuel sa , bellarmin , and others , in their doctrine which doth most reflect on the power and authority of princes ? not he , who extolls father garnet who was executed in england for the gunpowder-treason , yet for all this not he known to be a jesuite ? are you yet to seek ? apply but your own rule of the gospel to what is said already , and by those fruits you cannot but know him to be a jesuite . but now , notwithstanding the sufficient answers which have been so often given to the places produced for the proof of the churches infallibility out of scripture , you thought it no needless trouble in a. c. to mention them , and much less in your self to vindicate them from the bishops interpretation : the places are luk. . . he that heareth you heareth me , and he that despiseth you despiseth me . matth. . . i am with you alwaies to the end of the world . joh. . . the comforter the holy ghost shall abide with you for ever . that which you would inferr from these places , is , that an infallible assistance is promised to the church in all ages , not in its diffusive sense but representative , viz. in the pastors and doctors assembled in council . the substance of his lordships answer to these places , is in these words ; these promises were made of continual presence and assistance , that i grant ; and they were made to the apostles and their successors , that i grant too , but in a different degree . for it was of continual and infallible assistance to the apostles , but to their successors of continual and fitting assistance , but not infallible . to this you return no answer in general , but endeavour to evince the contrary from the particular places , by disproving his interpretations of them . to the first therefore luk. . . he that heareth you heareth me , &c. his lordship answers , that this was absolutely true in the apostles , who kept themselves to that which was revealed by christ ; but it was to be but conditionally true in their successors , i. e. so long and so farr as you speak my words and not your own . for where the command is for preaching , the restraint is added . go , saith christ , and teach all nations : but you may not preach all things that you please , but all things which i have commanded you . the publication is yours , the doctrine is mine ; and where the doctrine is not mine , there your publication is beyond , or short of your commission . to this you reply , that this is rather to pervert our saviours words , than to interpret them , is manifest . and the reason you give , is , because a sectary , who denies the apostles infallibility as well as the churches , might apply this restraint to the apostles themselves , as well as he now applies it to their successors . but they are strange kind of sectaries indeed who deny the apostles infallibility , and my memory doth not serve me with any such who asserted christs infallibility and denyed the apostles ; but if there be any such sectaries , let us know them , that we may then say , there are some in the world who believe great absurdities as well as you . however let us for the present , take this for a supposition , that any men might do so ; whether then they might not say , the apostles were only infallible when they spake christs words and not their own , i. e. delivered his doctrine and not any other . no doubt they might , and said very well in it too . and if these be the sectaries you mean , i am one of them my self ; for i believe , the apostles were no further infallible then as they delivered christs doctrine to the world , and i suppose there are many such sectaries besides my self . but all the difference then between the apostles and their successors was this , that those who heard the apostles doctrine had ground to believe them infallible in what they delivered for christs doctrine ; but we have no ground to believe so of any church since the apostles times , that it is infallible in delivering the doctrine of christ to others . the promise then of infallible assistance as made to the apostles doth imply that gods spirit would be so with them , that they should deliver nothing for the revealed will of god or the doctrine of christ , but what was really and truly so . and if you can from this or any other place prove such an infallible assistance to the church of all ages , you do something , but not otherwise . but for this particular place , he that heareth you heareth me ; i have something more yet to say , which may manifest how wholly impertinent it is to your purpose . . it seems to me very questionable , whether any such thing as infallibility be at all implyed in this place : and then certainly from hence you cannot inferr a successive infallibility in the church . and the reasons why i question it , are , . the apostles themselves had not that continual infallible assistance of the spirit of god till after christs ascension , when the promise of christs sending his spirit upon them was remarkably accomplished , will you say then they had infallible assistance by the spirit , before the promise of that infallible assistance was made to them ? if then the apostles themselves had not such a continual infallible assistance , much less the lxx . disciples who are here spoken of . . the message they were sent upon did not at all require any infallible assistance , for it was only a preparative message , they not being sent to deliver fully the doctrine of christ , but to tell them , the kingdom of god is at hand , or nigh unto you , ver . , . i. e. that blessed state of things under the messias is now ready to be revealed to you : the whole design therefore of that commission of the lxx . disciples and the apostles , when they were first sent abroad , was of the same nature with baptist's , viz. to prepare people for the reception and entertainment of that doctrine which christ should deliver to them . now what infallible assistance can be supposed necessary in order to this ? . the words imply nothing of infallible assistance in them . for when christ saith , he that heareth you heareth me , and he that despiseth you despiseth me , and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me : the plain meaning is no more than this , they which hearken to your message , and believe the truth of what you say , do therein manifest their readiness to hearken to me , and consequently will receive my doctrine , when it is delivered to them ; but they who despise this message of yours , the affront they offer you , reflects most on me who sent you ; and they shall find to their sorrow , that in rejecting me they reject god too , who will punish them severely for it : which , that it is the meaning of the words , will very easily appear to any one that considers the scope and design of the place . now is it not possible for any to declare their respect to christ by receiving his messengers , without believing those messengers to be infallibl● ▪ if that be possible , then what kind of infallibility can you hence inferr ? . suppose i should grant these lxx infallible in what they delivered , yet nothing can be hence drawn for the churches continual infallibility , because of the different reason of one from the other , and that will appear in these things . . these were immediately sent abroad by christ himself , when there were no infallible writings containing this doctrine , made by himself or his apostles . and was there not then much more reason for such an infallibility then there can be now ? . these had sufficient evidences to attest that infallibility , by that power of miracles , which they had in curing diseases and casting out of devils , ver . . — . and therefore those they were sent to had sufficient inducement to believe such an infallibility , if they had pretended to it ; when therefore you can prove the like of your lawfully sent doctors and pastors , either a-part or in a general council , you may then from hence argue some thing toward that infallibility , but not before . in your following words you acknowledge a difference in applying this text to the apostles and their successors , for it was true in every one of the apostles apart , but it is not so in every one of the succeeding pastors ; and for this you give these reasons , . your adversaries and you are agreed in it , viz. that the pastors apart are fallible . . 't is manifest by experience , that many eminent pastors have not only been erronious , but heretical . . there is universal tradition for it . . plain scripture for it , that even from themselves there should arise some that should speak perverse things . these reasons i acknowledge to be so true , that , if you had expressed the pope himself in them , you could not have proved his fallibility better , then by experience , consent , and scripture . but yet you have two reserves in a corner , which marr all the rest , viz. that from these places you make general councils infallible , and , according to your most received perswasion , the pope too . do you so indeed ? and from these places ? and both of them infallible , whether they agree or not ? but if our reasons be not stronger against any such infallibility deducible from these places , than yours are for it ( for i have not seen any ) i am content to blind my understanding so much , if i can , as to believe what you say , that to give reasons against your exposition is impossible . but as your reason in all other things is weak , so in this it appears , that either your ignorance or your confidence is intolerable . the next place , is , matth. . . i am with you alwaies , even unto the end of the world . to which his lordship saith , yes most certain it is , present by his spirit ; for else in bodily presence , he continued not with his apostles but during his abode on earth . and this promise of his spiritual presence was to their successors ; else why to the end of the world ? the apostles did not , could not live so long ; but then to the successors , the promise goes no further , than , i am with you alwaies , which reaches to continual assistance , but not to divine and infallible . what say you now to this ? why forsooth , it is the same answer as before , and therefore deserves no further refutation . but doth it not deserve some further proof of your infallibility from this place ? or are you content to let it go , because you cannot but see , that a spiritual presence and not infallible is hereby promised , either to the apostles or their successors , although from other places it appears , that the spiritual presence of christ with his apostles did extend to so high a degree , as to make them infallible in what they delivered for the doctrine of christ , but no place of scripture doth assert so much of the churches infallibility . it is well then that you grant , that st. gregory did not believe any infallible assistance in the pastors of the church ; but ( you say ) he understood it of them apart , to make which probable , you must produce some other places , where he saith otherwise of them in council . but how a gracious presence of christ with his church , which you grant rhabanus maurus meant by this place , should suppose a conjunctive infallibility of the pastors as a necessary foundation and support of the church diffusive , i confess is beyond my understanding ; but at least you say , it denies it not : neither doth it deny that you or i are infallible ; but doth it therefore follow that we are so ? what places you produce ( or rather bid us go seek for out of the fathers ) to prove that they , in effect , ( it seems then , not evidently ) do attribute infallibility to the church ( but by no means divine infallibility , for this is more than the third time that you have forbid the banes between those two words divine and infallible ) will to any that reads them appear to be capable of proving no more than the perpetuity of a church in the world ; but if any of them can do any better service , i doubt not , but we shall again meet with them , and therefore shall adjourn their consideration to a more convenient place . to prove that any of the fathers have denyed this place to extend to infallibility , is a very unreasonable thing which you put the bishop and his party upon , because they only deliver what they conceive the meaning of places to be , without reflections on any heresies , but such as were most prevalent in their own times . and if your church had in their time challenged infallibility from such places , you might have heard of their negative , which at present you put us unreasonably to prove . your answer to john . . only is , that it must be understood in some absolute sense ; and doth not his lordship say so too , viz. in regard of consolation and grace . but if you say , there can be no other absolute sense , but an infallible assistance , you would do well to prove it and not barely to suppose it : and so likewise , what follows as to john . . ( which his lordship justly restrains to the apostles alone ) you tell us , that you contend , that in whatsoever sense all truth is to be understood in respect of each apostle apart , it is also to be understood in relation to their successors , assembled in a full representative of the whole church . that you contend , we grant ; but we say , it is without sense or reason . and therefore come to examine what you produce for it . your first reason , because the representative of the church in general council , and the bishop of rome as pastor of the whole church , have equal power to oblige the church to believe what they deliver , as each apostle had , is utterly denied , and must be more then barely supposed as it is here . your second , which you call the fundamental reason of this exposition is , in short , that the preservation of the church requires infallibility in future ages of the church , as well as in the apostles times , which is again utterly denied ; and the next time you write , i pray prove your reasons well ; and think not your confident producing things you know are denied by us , will serve for reasons against us . before you can sufficiently prove that any rite of the church , not mentioned in scripture , had the holy ghost for its authour , especially when contrary to a custome expressed in scripture , you must do more then produce a single testimony of st. augustine for it ; who was apt to suppose the holy ghost might be pleased with such things , which the church , though not therein infallible , might consent in the practise of . which certainly is far from supposing the church to have infallible assistance with it , in delivering doctrines of faith ; because some things might be used in the church which the holy ghost might be supposed not displeased with , which is the utmost can be made of your citation out of st. austin . it seems you were aware of that disparity between the apostles times and ours , as to the pretence of infallibility , because the apostles were first to deliver this doctrine to the world , and after to consign it by writing to future ages ; from whence it were easie to inferr , there could not be that necessity of a continual infallible assistance in the church , because the doctrine infallibly delivered by them is preserved in the church by the infallible records of it . but to this your answer is considerable . what wise man ( say you ) would go about to raise a stately building for many ages , and satisfie himself with laying a foundation to last but for a few years ? our saviour the wisest of architects , is not to be thought to have founded this incomparable building of the church upon sand ; which must infallibly have happened , had he not intended to afford his continual assistance also to the succeeding pastors of the church , to lead them , when assembled in a general council , into all those truths wherein he first setled the apostles . whether you call this arguing for the churches infallibility , or libelling against our blessed saviour if he hath not done what you would have him , is hard to determine . i am sure , it is arguing ab absurdo with a witness ; for if he hath not done , just as you fancy he should have done ; he must venture to be accounted an ignoramus and impostor before , and here to do that which no wise man would have done , viz. build a stately fabrick , the church , upon the sands . so it seems you account the prophets and the apostles : for if the apostle may be credited , we are built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets , jesus christ himself being the chief corner-stone . and this is it you must mean by being built on the sand ; for herein it is plain , the church is built on these , viz. that infallible doctrine which was delivered by them , but here is not one word or the least intimation of an inherent infallibility in the church which was to be its foundation so as to secure it from all errour . and this ( you say ) must infallibly happen , if there be not the same infallibility in general councils which was in the apostles ; for that i suppose must be the meaning of your last words , if they be to the purpose . but how groundless your pretence of the infallibility of general councils is , will appear when we come to that subject ; but have you so little of common sense and reason with you , as to suppose the church presently notwithstanding the divine revelation of the doctrine of christianity in scripture to be built on sand , if general councils be not infallible ? is there not sufficient ground to rely on the doctrine of christianity , supposing there never had been any general council in the world ? what was the church built on before the nicene council , only on sand ? surely the wind and billows of persecutions would then have easily overturned it . what if through civil combustions in the empire there could never have been any assembly's of the bishops afterwards , must the church needs have fallen to the ground for want of general councils ? but why , i pray , must the infallibility of the apostles be compared only to a foundation that can last but for few years ? do you suppose that these apostles never did commit their doctrine infallibly to writing ; or that these writings of theirs did last but for a few years ? without one of these , it is hard to find out your meaning by those expressions . if you deny either of them , i shall readily prove them : but if you affirm both these , ( as if you are heartily a christian you must do ) with what face can you say that christ , in making the apostles infallible , did lay a foundation but for a few years . but thanks be to god , although perverse and unreasonable men are alwaies quarrelling with the methods of divine wisdom and goodness , this foundation of the lord standeth sure still ; and , as long as the infallible doctrine of the gospel continues , the church will be built on a stedfast and unmoveable rock , which will prove a much surer foundation than the seven hills of infallibility . but this is your grand and fundamental mistake , to suppose a church cannot continue without a vital inherent principle of infallibility in her self , which must be discovered by infallible directions from the head of it : whereas we grant the necessity of an infallible foundation of faith , but cannot discern either from scripture , reason , or antiquity , that there must be a living and standing infallible judge , which must deliver and interpret those infallible records to us . we grant then infallibility in the foundation of faith , we assert the highest certainty of the infallibility of that foundation , we declare that the owning of that infallible foundation is that which makes men christians ( the body of whom we call a church ) we further grant , that christ hath left in his church sufficient means for the preservation of it in truth and unity ; but we deny that ever he promised such an infallibility to be constantly resident in that church , as was in the prophets and apostles ; and that neither any intention of christ , or any reason in the thing can be manifested , why such an infallibility should be so necessary for the churches preservation , that without it the wisdom of christ must be questioned , and the church built on a sandy foundation . your citation of vincentius lyrinensis proves nothing but the churches constancy in adhering to that doctrine of faith , which was delivered from the beginning ; but how that should prove a constant infallibility , i cannot understand , unless it is impossible that there should be any truth , where there is no inherent infallibility . thus we see , what very little success you have in the attempt of proving the churches continual infallibility from scripture . from hence you proceed to the consideration of the way , how scripture and tradition do mutually confirm each other . his lordship grants , that they do mutually , but not equally , confirm the authority either of other . for scripture doth infallibly confirm the authority of church-traditions , truly so called : but tradition doth but morally and probably confirm the authority of the scripture . this ( you say ) is apparently false , but endeavour not to make it evident , that it is so : only you say , a. c. refused already to grant it . et quid tum postea ? must every thing be false which a. c. refuses to grant ? but let us see , whether his similitude makes it out . for ( saith he ) 't is as a kings embassadours word of mouth , and his kings letters bear mutual witness to each other . just so indeed ( saith his lordship ) for his kings letters of credence under hand and seal , confirm the embassadours authority infallibly to all that know his seal and hand : but the embassadours word of mouth confirms his kings letters , but only probably . for else , why are they call●d letters of credence , if they give not him more credit , than he gives them ? to which you make a large reply . . that the kings hand and seal cannot confirm infallibly to a forein king , who neither knows hand nor seal , the embassadours authority ; and therefore this reacheth not the business , how we should know infallibly , that the scripture is gods word . . that the primary reason , why the embassadour is admitted , is his own credit , to which correspond the motives of credibility of the church , by which the letters of credence are admitted . . that none can give authority to the letters of credence , or be infallibly certain of them , but such as infallibly know that hand and seal . . that none can infallibly know that hand and seal , but such as are certain of the embassadours sincerity . but , doth all this disprove what his lordship saith , that though there be a mutual testimony , yet it is not equal ; for , although the letters of credence might be the sooner read and admitted of , on the embassadours reputation and sincerity , yet still those letters themselves , upon the delivery of them , may further , and in a higher degree , confirm the prince he is sent to , of his authority to act as embassadour . supposing then , that there be a sufficient testimony , that these letters were sealed by the secretary of state , who did manifest his sincerity in the highest manner in the sealing of them ; though a forein prince might not know the hand and seal , yet upon such a creditable testimony , he may be assured that they were sealed by the prince himself . but then withall , if the embassadour , to assure the prince , offers his own life to attest the truth of his credentials , and the prince by reading the letters , find something in them which could not be written by any other than that prince , he then hath the highest certainty he can desire . this is the case between tradition and scripture ; general tradition at first makes way for the first admission of scripture , as the general repute of an embassadours coming doth for his access to the prince ; the particular tradition of the church , is like the embassadours affirming to the prince , that he hath letters of credence with him ; but then , when he enquires into the certainty of those letters , those motives of credibility ( not which relate to the person of the embassadour ) but which evidently prove the sealing of those letters ( as the constant testimony of such who were present at it , the secretaries and embassadours venturing their lives upon it ) must confirm him in that ; and lastly , his own reading the credentials , give him the highest confirmation , i. e. the testimony of those who saw the miracles of christ and his apostles , and confirmed the truth of their testimony , by their dying for it , are the highest inducement to our believing that the scriptures were sealed by god himself in the miracles wrought , and written by his own hand , his spirit infallibly assisting the apostle ; but still , after all this , when in these very scriptures we read such things as we cannot reasonably suppose could come from any but god himself ; this doth in the highest degree settle and confirm our faith. therefore , as to the main scope for which this similitude was used by his lordship , it holds still ; but your mistake lyes , in supposing that the embassadours reception depended wholly on his own single testimony , and that was enough to make any prince infallibly certain that his letters of credence are true , which cannot be , unless he knows before-hand that embassadour to be infallibly true , which is impossible to be supposed at his first reception . yet this is plainly your case , that the scriptures are to be infallibly believed on the single testimony of the present church , which is , to make the embassadour himself give authority to his letters of credence , and set hand and seal to them . whereas the contrary is most evident to be true . but then , supposing these credentials admitted , the prince transacts with the embassadour , according to that power which is conveyed to him therein . and thus it is in the present case : not as though a prince treated every envoy with equal respect to an embassadour , no more ought any pastors of the church be received , but according to that power and authority which their credentials , viz. the scriptures do convey to them . we own therefore the apostles as gods immediate embassadours , whose miracles did attest their commission from heaven to all they came to ; and no persons could pretend ignorance , that this is gods hand and seal ; but all other pastors of the church we look on only as agents settled to hold correspondency between god and vs , but no extraordinary embassadours , who must be looked on as immediately transacting by the infallible commission of heaven . when therefore the pastor or pastors of your church shall bring new credentials from heaven , attested with the same broad-seal of heaven , which the apostles had , viz. miracles , we shall then receive them in the same capacity as apostles , viz. acting by an infallible commission , but not till then . by which i have given a sufficient answer to what follows , concerning the credit which is given to christ's legats as to himself ; for hereby it appears they are to have no greater authority than their commission gives them . produce therefore an infallible commission for your pastors infallibility , either apart , or conjunctly , and we shall receive it ; but not else . whether a.c. in the words following , doth in terms attribute divine and infallible authority to the church , supposing it infallibly assisted by the holy ghost , is very little material ; for , whether he owns it or no , it is sufficient that it necessarily follows from his doctrine of infallibility . for , how can the church be infallible by virtue of those promises , wherein divine infallibility , you say , is promised , and by virtue of which the apostles had divine infallibility , and yet the church not to be divinely infallible ? the remainder of this chapter , which concerns the sense of the fathers in this controversie , will particularly be considered in the next , which is purposely designed for it . chap. ix . the sense of the fathers in this controversie . the judgement of antiquity enquired into , especially of the three first centuries ; and the reasons for it . the several testimonies of justin martyr , athenagoras , tatianus , irenaeus , clemens alexandrinus , and all the fathers who writ in vindication of christian religion , manifested to concurr fully with our way of resolving faith. c's . answers to vincentius lyrinensis , à gandavo , and the fathers produced by his lordship , pitifully weak . the particulars of his th . chapter examined . s. augustine's testimony vindicated . c's . nauseous repetitions sent as vagrants to their several homes . his lordships considerations found too heavy for c's . answers . in what sense the scripture may be called a praecognitum . what way the jews resolved their faith. this controversie , and the first part , concluded . having thus largely considered , whatever you could pretend to , for the advantage of your own cause , or the prejudice of ours , from reason and scripture ; nothing can be supposed to remain considerable , but the judgement of the primitive church in this present controversie . and next to scripture and reason , i attribute so much to the sense of the christian church in the ages next succeeding the apostles , that it is no mean confirmation to me of the truth of the protestant way of resolving faith , and of the falsity of yours , that i see the one so exactly concurring , and the other so apparently contrary to the unanimous consent of antiquity . for , though you love to make a great noise with antiquity , among persons meanly conversant in it ; yet those who do seriously and impartially enquire into the sense of the primitive church , and not guess at it by the shreds of citations to your hands in your own writers ( which is generally your way ) will scarce in any thing more palpably discern your jugling and impostures then in your pretence to antiquity . i shall not here enquire into the corruptions crept into your church under that disguise , but , as occasion is ministred to me , in the following discourse , shall endeavour to pluck it off , but shall keep close to the matter in question . three things then i design in this chapter . . to shew the concurrence of antiquity with us in the resolution of faith. . examine what you produce from thence , either to assert your own way , or enervate ours . . consider what remains of this controversie in your book . . for the manifesting the concurrence of antiquity with us ; i shall confine my present discourse to the most pure and genuine antiquity , keeping within the compass of the three first centuries , or at least , of those who have purposely writ in vindication of the christian faith. not that i do in the least distrust the consent of the succeeding writers of the primitive church , but upon these reasons . . because it would be too large a task at present to undertake , since no necessity from what you object , but only my desire to clear the truth , and rectifie the mistakes of such , who are led blindfold under the pretence of antiquity , hath led me to this discourse . . because in reason they could not but understand best the waies and methods used by the apostles for the perswading men to the christian faith ; and if they had mentioned any such thing as an infallibility alwaies to continue in the charch , those pastors certainly who received the care of the church from the apostles hands , could not but have heard of it : and were strangely to blame if they did not discover and make use of it . whatever therefore of truly apostolical tradition , is to be relyed on in such cases , must be conveyed to us from those persons who were the apostles immediate successors ; and if it can be made manifest that they heard not of any such thing , in that , when occasion was offered , they are so far from mentioning it , that they take such different waies of satisfying men , which do manifestly suppose that they did not believe it . i know some of the greatest patrons of the church of rome , and such who know best how to manage things with best advantage for the interest of that church , have made little account of the three first ages , and confined themselves within the compass of the four first councils , upon this pretence , because the books and writers are so rare before , and that those persons who lived then , had no occasion to write of the matters in controversie between them and us . but if the ground why those other things which are not determined in scripture , are to be believed by us , and practised as necessary , be , that they were apostolical traditions , who can be more competent judges what was so , and what not , then those who lived nearest the apostolical times ? and those certainly ( if they writ of any thing ) could not write of any thing of more concernment to the christian world , than the knowledge of such things would be ; or at least we cannot imagine but that we should find express intimations of them , where so many , so wise , and learned persons do industriously give an account of themselves , and their solemn actions to their heathen persecutors . but however silent they may be in other things , which they neither heard , nor thought of , as in the customs controverted between the papists and us ( which , no doubt , is the true reason why the three first ages are declined by cardinal perrone ) yet there is not the least shadow of pretence , why they should be silent in this present controversie , since the great business of their writings was to vindicate the christian faith , to perswade the heathens to believe it , and to manifest the grounds on which they were induced to believe themselves . if therefore in this they do unanimously concurr with that resolution of faith i have already laid down , nothing can be desired more for the evidence and confirmation of the truth of our way , than that it is not only most consonant to scripture , but built on the truest reason , and was the very same which the primitive christians used when they gave an account of their faith : which i shall do , not by some mangled citations , but deducing it from the scope and design of their writings , and drawing it successively down from the first after the apostles , who appeared in vindication of the christian faith. i begin with justin martyr , who , as photius saith of him , was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not far from the apostles either in time or virtue ; and who being a professed philosopher before he became a christian , we may in reason think , that he was more inquisitive into the grounds of christian faith , before he believed , and the more able to give an account of them , when he did . whether therefore we consider those arguments which first induced him to believe , or those whereby he endeavours to perswade others to it , we shall find how consonant and agreeable he is to our grounds of faith , how far from any imagination of the churches infallibility . in the beginning of his excellent dialogue with trypho , where ( if i may conjecture ) he represents the manner of his conversion in a platonical way , introducing a solemn conference between himself , and an ancient person of great gravity , and a venerable aspect in a solitary place , whither he was retired for his meditations . pet. halloix is much troubled who this person should be , whether an angel in humane shape , or a man immediately conveyed by an angel to discover christianity to him , which , when he had done , he was as suddenly carried back again . scultetus ( i suppose from this story ) asserts justin martyr to be converted by divine revelation . but , if i be not much mistaken , this whole conference is no more than the setting forth the grounds of his becoming a christian in the platonical mode , by way of dialogue ( and probably the whole disputation with trypho , may be nothing else ) but , however that be , it is apparent trypho looked on him as a platonist , by his pallium , and justin martyr owns himself to have been so , and therefore it was very congruous for him to discourse after the academick manner . in which discourse , when justin martyr had stood up in vindication of the platonick philosophy , and the other person endeavours to convince him of the impossibility of attaining true happiness by any philosophy . for when justin had said , that by philosophy he came to the knowledge of god ; the other person demanded , how they could know god , who had never seen him , nor heard him ? he replied , that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , god was only intelligible by our minds , as plato said : he again asks , whether there were such a faculty in the minds of men , as to be able to see god without a divine power and spirit assisting it ? justin answers , that , according to plato , the eye of the understanding was sufficient to discover that there is such a being , which is the cause of all things , but the nature of it is ineffable and incomprehensible . upon which he proceeds to enquire , what relation there was between god and the souls of men , and what means to come to the participation of him ; after a great deal of discourse on which subject between them , justin comes at last to enquire , if there were no truth and certainty in philosophy ? by whose instruction , or by what means he should come to it ? to which that person returns this excellent answer , that there had been , a long time since , several persons much elder than the reputed philosophers , blessed men , just , and lovers of god , speaking by the inspiration of the divine spirit , foretelling things which have come to pass since , whom they call prophets . these only saw the truth , and declared it to men ; neither flattering , nor fearing any , nor conquered with the love of honour : but they only spake the things which they heard and saw , being filled with the holy spirit . whose books are still extant ; which , whosoever reads , and assents to , will find himself much improved in the principles and ends of things , and whatever becomes a philosopher to know . for , they write not by way of argument or demonstration , but , that which is above it , they are most faithful witnesses of truth . for the things which have , and do come to pass , do enforce men to believe the truth of what they spake : and not only so , but they are most worthy to be believed , for the miracles which they wrought . moreover , they extol the maker of the world , god and the father , and declare to the world his son christ : which the false prophets , who are acted by a seducing and impure spirit , neither have done , nor yet do do ; but they attempt to shew some tricks for the amazement of men , and cry up the evil and deceiving spirits . but , do thou , above all things , pray , that the gates of light may be opened to thee . for these things are not seen nor understood by all , but only by them to whom god and christ , shall grant the knowledge of them . a most signal and remarkable testimony ( as any is extant in all antiquity ) for acquainting us with the true grounds and reasons of faith , which therefore i have at large produced . the very reading of which is sufficient to tell us , how true a protestant this , whether angel or man was . when justin asked him , what teachers he should have to lead him to truth ; he tells him , there had been long before philosophers , excellent persons in the world , called prophets , men every way good , who did nothing for fear or favour , or love of themselves . but justin might further ask , how he should come to be instructed by them ? he tells him , their writings were still extant , wherein were contained such things as might hugely satisfie a philosophical mind concerning the origine and principles of things . he might still enquire , whether those things were demonstrated or no , in them ? no , he replies ; but they deserve assent as much , if not beyond any demonstration ; because they manifest themselves to be from god , by two things , the exact accomplishment of the prophecies made by them , and the unparalleld miracles which were wrought by them . but , might not the evil spirits work such things ? no : for , although their false prophets●ay ●ay do several things to amaze men , yet they can do no such miracles as 〈◊〉 did ; besides , all which they do , tends to advance these evil spirits in the world ; but the design of the true prophets , is to declare the true god , and his son christ. but , may then any one , by the innate power of his mind , yield a divine assent to these things ? no : but , pray earnestly to god to enlighten your mind ; for this is the effect of divine grace , in and through christ. what part is there now of our resolution of faith , which is not herein asserted ? if you ask , why you believe there were such men in the world as these prophets ? the continuance of their books and common fame sufficiently attest it . if you ask , why you should believe them to be true prophets ? the excellency of their doctrine , joyned with the fulfilling prophecies , and working miracles , abundantly prove it . but if you lastly ask , whether , besides objective evidence , there be not some higher efficient requisite to produce a divine faith ; the answer is , that depends upon the grace of god in christ : so that here we have most evidently all those things concurring , which his lordship asserts in the resolution of faith ; moral inducement preparing the mind , rational evidence from the thing into which faith is resolved , and divine grace requisite in the nature of an efficient cause . but , where is there the least intimation of any churches infallibility requisite to make men believe with a firm and divine faith ? no doubt that was a divine faith , which justin was bid to pray so heartily for , and which was only in those to whom it was given ; and yet even this faith had no other assurance to build it self upon , but that rational evidence which is before discovered . that divine person never thought of mens believing with their wills , much less that the books of scripture had no more evidence of themselves , than distinction of colours to a blind man ; he did not think christ an ignoramus or impostor , because he left no church infallible , nor that god by the prophets laid a foundation upon sand , or that would last but a few years , because he did not continue such an infallible assistance as the prophets had to the church in all ages ; yet these are all brave assertions of yours ; which , doubtless , you would be ashamed of , and recant , if you had not , as casaubon saith of the person whom you could not tell whether he was a jesuit or no ( but by that character you might guess it ) that he had frontem ferream , & cor involutum ; a brow of steel , and a heartfull of meanders ( to use your own fine expression . ) upon this , justin tells us , a divine ardour was raised in his mind , and a love of the prophets and such as were the friends of christ , and , upon further consideration , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i found this the only certain and profitable philosophy ; and thereupon commends the doctrine of christ to trypho and his company for something which was certainly innate to it , that it had a kind of awe and majesty in it , and is excellent at terrifying and perswading those who were out of the right way , and brings the sweetest tranquillity to such as are conversant in it . and afterwards undertakes to demonstrate the truth of our religion from the reasonableness of it , that we have not yielded our assent to vain and empty fables , nor to assertions uncapable of evidence and demonstration ; but to such as are filled with a divine spirit , overflowing with power , and flourishing with grace . and accordingly manageth his discourse quite through , shewing the insufficiency of the ceremonial law , and the truth and excellency both of the person and doctrine of christ. but what need all this , if he had believed your doctrine ? it had been but proving the church infallible by motives of credibility ; and then , to be sure , whatever was propounded to be believed by it , was infallibly true . but older and wiser , it seems , must hold here to ; justin , though so near the apostles times , went a much further way about : but it was well for him he lived so long ago , else he might have been accused of heresie , or making faith uncertain , if he had lived in our times , and such doctrine of his might have merited an index expurgatorius . but , it seems , he was not afraid of it then , for he often elsewhere speaks to the same purpose . for , in his paraenesis to the greeks , he makes it his business , first to shew the unreasonableness of believing those who were the great authours of all their superstitions ; for the poets were manifestly ridiculous , the philosophers at continual dissentions among themselves , so that there was no relying on them for the finding out of truth , or the redress of the miseries of humane nature ; and then comes to the authours of our religion , who were both much elder than any of theirs , and did not teach any thing of their own heads , nor dissented from one another in what they delivered , or sought to confute each other as the philosophers did , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , without all jarring and contention , they delivered to men the doctrine which they received from god. for , ( saith he ) it was not possible for them to know such great and divine things by nature , or humane wit , but by a heavenly gift descending from above upon holy men . it seems , justin believed there was such evidence in the matters contained in scripture , which might perswade men to believe that they came from god ; that they were but as instruments to that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( as he expresseth it ) to that divine spirit which did strike upon them ; whence , with one consent and harmony they sound forth the doctrine of god , the worlds creation and mans , the immortality of the soul , judgment to come , and all things else which are necessary for us to know , which they unanimously deliver to us , though at great distances from each other , both in regard of time and place . and so proves the antiquity of the writings of moses above all the wise men of the greeks , by the testimony of their own authours , polemon , appion , ptolomaeus mendesius , and many others , and concludes his discourse with this speech , that it is impossible for us to know any thing certainly concerning god or religion , but from divine inspiration , which alone was in the prophets . in his first apology for the christians , he tells us what it was , while he was a platonist , which brought him to a good opinion of christianity , which was , the observing the power and efficacy that doctrine had upon the christians to undergo with so much courage what was accounted most terrible to humane nature ( which are , death and torments . ) from whence he reasoned with himself , that although the christians were so much calumniated , yet certainly they could not be vitious persons , who were so little fearful of those great bug-bears of humane nature . for , who is there , that is a lover of pleasure , or intemperate , or cruel , that can chearfully embrace death , so as thereby to be deprived of all his goods ? and when he speaks of the doctrine it self of christianity , he saies , it is suitable to whatever was rational among the platonists or other philosophers , but far more agreeable to it self , and containing much more excellent things than ever they could attain to the knowledge of . in his second apology for the christians to the emperour antoninus pius , he insists much on the excellency of the do●trine of christianity from the precepts of it , chastity , love of enemies , liberality ▪ submission to authority , worship of god , &c. afterwards he proves the truth and certainty of all we believe concerning christ from the exact accomplishment of the prophecies made concerning him in the old testament , which discourse he ends with this saying . so many and so great things being seen , are sufficient to perswade men to believe the truth of them , who are lovers of truth , and not seekers of applause , and under the command of passions . thus we see , in all his discourses , where he had the most occasion administred to him , to discover the most certain grounds of christian faith , he resolves all into the rational evidence of the truth , excellency , and divinity of the doctrine which was contained in the scriptures . for in his second oration to the greeks , after he had spoken highly in commendation of the scripture , calling it , the best expeller of all turbulent passions , and the surest extinguisher of those preternatural heats in the souls of men ; which ( saith he ) makes men not poets , nor philosophers , nor orators , but it makes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , dying men immortal , and mortals become gods ; and transferrs them from the earth , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to such places whose confines are far above olympus ; therefore , o ye greeks , come and be instructed ; be ye as i am , for i was as you are . and these were the things which prevailed with me , the divine power and efficacy of the doctrine . what was it then , i pray , that justin martyr , of a philosopher becoming a christian , resolved his faith into ? if we may believe himself , it was into the evidence of the doctrine of christianity , and not into the infallibility of any church . the testimony of this person , i have the more largely insisted on , both because he was so great a philosopher , as well as christian , and lived so near the apostolical times . next him we produce athenagoras as a philosopher too , as well as christian , who flourished under antoninus and commodus , to whom he made his apology in behalf of the christians , in which he first undertakes to manifest the reasonableness of the doctrine which they owned , the foundation of it being the same with that which the best philosophers acknowledged , the existence and unity of the deity . but ( saith he ) if we had nothing but such reasons as he had produced , our perswasion could only be humane ; but the words of the prophets are they which establish our minds . — who being carried beyond themselves , by the impulse of the divine spirit , spake that which they were moved to , when the spirit used them as instruments through which he spake . is not here a plain resolution of faith into that divine authority by which the prophets spake ? and that not as testified by any infallible church , but as it was discernable by those persons he spake to , for he appeals to the emperours themselves concerning it ; which had been a fond and absurd thing for him to do , if the knowledge of that divine inspiration did depend meerly on the testimony of christians as such , and were not to be discovered by some common principles to them and others . much to the same purpose tatianus speaks in that eloquent oration of his against the greeks , who was justin martyrs scholar ; and we shall see , how agreeably he speaks to him , in the account he gives , how he became a christian. after ( saith he ) he had abundantly discovered the vanity of the theology , and superstitions of the greeks , he fell to the reading some strange books , much elder and more divine than the writings of the greek philosophers . and to these ( saith he ) i yielded up my faith , for the great simplicity and plainness of the style , and the freedom from affectation which was in the writers ; and that evidence and perspicuity which was in all they writ ; and because they foretold things to come , made excellent promises , and manifestly declared the monarchy of the world. what protestant could speak higher of the scripture , and of those internal arguments which are the grounds of faith than tatianus in these words doth ? yet we see , these were the arguments which made him relinquish the greek learning of which he was a professor at rome , and betake himself to the profession of christianity ; though he was sure to undergo not only contempt from the world , but to be in continual hazard of his life by it . that innate simplicity of the writings of the scripture joyned with the perspicuity of it ( if at least those words be rightly translated 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by sermo nusquam obscurus , and it doth not rather relate to the account of the worlds creation , which i conjecture it may do ) but however , the certainty of the predictions , the excellency of the promises , and the reasonableness of the doctrine were the things , which by the reading of the books he was perswaded to believe them by . but all this while we hear no news of any churches infallibility in order to faith. we come therefore to irenaeus , who was omnium doctrinarum curio●●ssimus explorator as tertullian speaks of him , a great searcher into all kind of learning , and therefore surely not to seek as to the true account of his faith. whose judgement herein , although we have had occasion to enquire into before , yet we have testimonies enough beside to manifest his consent with them . and although irenaeus of all the ancient fathers be looked on as the most favourable to tradition , and is most cited to that purpose in these disputes ; yet i doubt not but to make it appear , that where he speaks most concerning tradition , he makes the resolution of faith to be wholly and entirely into the scripture : and they who apprehend otherwise do either take the citations out of him upon trust , or else only search him for the words of those citations , and never take the pains to enquire into the scope and design of his discourse . for clearing which , we must consider , what the subject was which he writ of , what the plea's of the adverse party were , what way irenaeus takes to confute them , and to establish the faith of christians as to the matter which was in controversie . the matter in dispute was this : valentinus and his scholars , not being contented with the simplicity of the doctrine of the gospel , and in probability the better to suit their opinions to the heathen mythology , had invented a strange pedigree of gods , the better as they pretended to give an account of the production of things , and the various dispensations which had been in the world : but knowing that the christians did with the greatest resolution adhere to that doctrine which was delivered by christ and his apostles , they could not suppose that they should embrace these figments unless they could some way or other father them upon them . upon which they pretended that these very things which they delivered were really intended by christ and the apostles in their writings , but because so few were capable of them , they gave only some intimations of them there , but delivered these great mysteries privately only to those who were perfect ; and that this was st. pauls meaning when he said , i speak wisdome among them that are perfect . this irenaeus gives us an account of , in the beginning of all his discourse : but is more fully expressed in the original greek of irenaeus preserved by epiphanius in the heresie of the valentinians . on which account alone , as petavius saith , epiphanius hath well deserved of posterity , for preserving entire those original fragments of irenaeus ; his greek therein being much more intelligible and smooth than the old harsh latin version of him . his words are : all which things , are not expresly declared , in as much as all are not fit to understand them ; but are mysteriously couched by our saviour in parables , for such who are able to understand them . thus they said , the . aeônes were represented by the . years in which our saviour did not appear publickly , and by the parable of the works in the vineyard in which the , , , , , hours , making up . did again denote their aeônes ; and that st. paul did most expresly signifie them , when he used so often 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the duodecad of aeôns by the years at which our saviour appeared disputing with the doctors . the raising of jairus his daughter of years , represented achamoth being brought to light , whose passions were set forth by those words of our saviour , my god , my god , why hast thou forsaken me , in which were three passions of achamoth , sorrow , fear , and despair . with many things of a like nature ; but hereby we sufficiently see what their pretence was , viz. that there were deep mysteries but obscurely represented in scripture , but whose full knowledge was delivered down by an oral cabala from christ and his apostles . now we must consider , what course irenaeus takes to confute these pretensions of theirs . first he gives an account what that faith was , which the church dispersed up and down the world , received from the apostles and their disciples , viz. that thereby , they believed in one god , the father almighty , who made heaven and earth , the sea and all in them , and in one jesus christ the son of god , &c. which was directly contrary to the valentinian heresies , who supposed the supream god and demiurgus to be different , and so christus and salvator , and so in others . this faith which the church hath received , it unanimously keeps , though dispersed through the whole world ; for although the languages be different , yet the tradition is the same among them ; whether they live in germany , france , spain , the east , aegypt , libya , or elsewhere . and after in the first book he hath shewed the many different opinions of the several broods of these hereticks ; and in the second discovered the fondness and ridiculousness of them ; in his third book , he undertakes from scripture to shew the falseness of them . and begins with that excellent expression before cited . for we have not known the disposition ( or oeconomy ) of our salvation by others than by those , by whom the gospel came to us , which they then first preached , and after by the will of god , delivered to us in writings to be the foundation and pillar of our faith. which being laid down by him at his entrance as the grand principle , on which he goes , will lead us to an easie understanding of all that follows . this therefore , he not only asserts , but proves ; for whereas some of the adversaries pretended , that the apostles preached before they fully understood all they were to know , he shews how false that was , because after christs resurrection from the grave , they were endued with the spirit of god descending from on high upon them ; and were furnished with a perfect knowledge by which they went up and down preaching the gospel , which all and each of them had the knowledge of . thus matthew in the hebrew tongue set forth his gospel , when peter and paul at rome preached the gospel and founded a church ; and after their departure mark , the disciple and interpreter of peter , writ those things which were preached . afterwards john published his gospel at ephesus in asia . and all these ( saith he ) delivered to us one god maker of heaven and earth , and one christ his son. to whom if one doth not assent , he despiseth those who were our lords companions , and therefore despiseth our lord christ , and likewise despiseth the father , and is condemned of himself , resisting and opposing his own salvation which all hereticks do . can any thing be more plain , than that irenaeus makes it his design to resolve faith into the writings of christ and his apostles , and saith , that these writings were delivered as a foundation of faith , that the reason why the christians believed but one god and one christ , was , because they read of no more in the gospels published by them , that he that despiseth them who were our lords companions , despise himself and god , and condemn themselves . he doth not say , he that despiseth the lawfully sent pastours of the church meeting in general councils , nor them who have power to oblige the church to believe as well as the apostles had , as you say , but evidently makes the obligation to believe , to depend upon that revelation of gods will , which was made by the apostles , and is by their writings conveyed down to us . would not the valentinians have thought themselves presently run down by such wayes of confutation as yours are , that they must believe the present church infallible in whatever is delivered to be believed to the world ? but doth not irenaeus himself make use of the churches tradition as the great argument to confute them by ? i grant he doth so , and it is on that very account that he might confute them , and not lay down the only sure foundation of christian faith. for he gives that reason of his doing so in the beginning of the very next chapter . for , ( saith he ) when we dispute against them out of the scripture , they are turned presently to an accusing of the scriptures as though they were not in all things right , and wanted authority , and because of their ambiguity , and for that truth cannot be found out by them without the help of tradition . i need not say , that irenaeus prophesied of you in this saying of his , but it is as true of you as if he had . your pretences being the very same , against the scriptures being the rule of faith , with those of the valentinians ; only that you deny not the truth of what is therein contained , for otherwise the want of authority in themselves , the ambiguity of them , the impossibility of knowing the sense of them without tradition , are the very same arguments which with the greatest pomp and ostentation are produced by you against the scriptures , being the rule whereby to judge of controversies . which we have no more cause to wonder at , than irenaeus had in the valentinians , because from them we produce our greatest arguments against your fond opinions . now when the valentinians pretended their great rule was on oral tradition , which was conveyed from the apostles down to them ; to this irenaeus opposeth the constant tradition of the apostolical churches , which in a continued succession was preserved from the apostles times , which was the same every where among all the churches , which every one who desired it , might easily be satisfied about ; because they could number them , who by the apostles were appointed bishops in churches , and their successors , unto our own times , who taught no such thing , nor ever knew any such thing as they madly fancy to themselves . we see then his appeal to tradition was only in a matter of fact , whether ever any such thing as their opinion which was not contained in scripture , was delivered to them by the apostles or no , i. e. whether the apostles left any oral traditions in the churches which should be the rule to interpret scriptures by , or no ? and the whole design of irenaeus is to prove the contrary , by an appeal to all the apostolical churches , and particularly by appealing to the roman church , because of its due fame and celebrity in that age wherein irenaeus lived . so that irenaeus appealed to the then roman church , even when he speaks highest in the honour of it , for somewhat which is fundamentally contrary to the pretensions of the now roman church . he then appealed to it , for an evidence against such oral traditions which were pretended to be left by the apostles as a rule to understand scripture by ; and , were it not for this same pretence now , what will become of the authority of the present roman church . after he hath thus manifested by recourse to the apostolical churches that there was no such tradition left among them , it was very reasonable to inferr that there was none such at all ; for they could not imagine , if the apostles had designed any such tradition , but they would have communicated it to those famous churches which were planted by them , and it was absurd to suppose that those churches who could so easily derive their succession from the apostles should in so short a time have lost the memory of so rich a treasure deposited with them , as that was pretended to be ; from whence he sufficiently refutes that unreasonable imagination of the valentinians . which having done , he proceeds to settle those firm grounds on which the christians believed in one god the father , and in one lord jesus christ , which he doth by removing the only objection which the adversaries had against them . for when the christians declared , the main reason into which they resolved their faith as to these principles , was , because no other god or christ were revealed in scripture , but them whom they believed , the valentinians answered , this could not be a sufficient foundation for their faith on this account , because many things were delivered in scripture , not according to the truth of the things , but the judgment and opinion of the persons they were spoken to . this therefore being such a pretence as would destroy any firm resolution of faith into scripture , and must necessarily place it in tradition ; irenaeus concerns himself much to demonstrate the contrary , by an ostension ( as he calls it ) that christ and the apostles did all along speak according to truth , and not according to the opinion of their auditours , which is the entire subject of the fifth chapter of his third book . which he proves first of christ , because he was truth it self , and it would be very contrary to his nature to speak of things , otherwise then they were , when the very design of his coming was to direct men in the way of truth . the apostles were persons who professed to declare truth to the world , and as light cannot communicate with darkness , so neither could truth be blended with so much falshood as that opinion supposeth in them . and therefore neither our lord nor his apostles could be supposed to mean any other god or christ then whom they declared . for this ( saith he ) were rather to increase their ignorance and confirm them in it , then to cure them of it ; and therefore that law was true which pronounced a curse on every one who led a blind man out of his way . and the apostles being sent for the recovery of the lost sight of the blind , cannot be supposed to speak to men according to their present opinion , but according to the manifestation of truth . for , what physitian intending to cure a patient , will do according to his patients desire , and not rather what will be best for him ? from whence he concludes , since the design of christ and his apostles was not to flatter but to cure mens souls ; it follows , that they did not speak to them , according to their former opinion , but according to truth without all hypocrisie and dissimulation . from whence it follows , that if christ and his apostles did speak according to truth , there is then need of no oral tradition for our understanding scripture , and consequently the resolution of our faith as to god and christ , and proportionably as to other objects to be believed , is not into any tradition pretending to be derived from the apostles , but into the scriptures themselves ; which by this discourse evidently appears to have been the judgement of irenaeus . the next which follows , is clemens of alexandria who flourished a. d. . whom st. hierome accounted the most learned of all the writers of the church : and therefore cannot be supposed ignorant in so necessary a part of the christian doctrine as the resolution of faith is . and if his judgement may be taken , the scriptures are the only certain foundation of faith ; for in his admonition to the gentiles after he hath with a great deal of excellent learning derided the heathen superstitions , when he comes to give an account of the christians faith , he begins it with this pregnant testimony to our purpose . for ( saith he ) the sacred oracles affording us the most manifest grounds of divine worship , are the foundation of truth ▪ and so goes on in a high commendation of the scripture , as the most compendious directions for happiness , the best institutions for government of life , the most free from all vain ornaments , that they raise mens souls up out of wickedness , yielding the most excellent remedies , disswading from the greatest deceit , and most clearly incouraging to a foreseen happiness ; with more of the same nature . and when after he perswades men with so much rhetorick and earnestness to imbrace the scriptures 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the greatest readiness , he gives this as the reason of it , that so they might 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 entertain god in chaste souls . for the word is that light to men , by which we see god : and soon after speaking that the design of religion is to make men like to god as much as possible , he adds , that truly they are the sacred scriptures which make men holy and deifie men , i. e. by assimilation . and in that large and eloquent paraenesis which follows , wherein he perswades men to the forsaking their old customs and embracing christianity , all the arguments he useth are drawn from the scriptures , and not so much as the least mention of any infallible ensurancer of their truth and authority , but supposeth the evidence he produceth , sufficient to perswade them to the belief and love of them . in the first of his stromata , he proves the truth of the scriptures by the much greater antiquity of them then any of the greek learning . in the second , where he particularly enquires into the nature and grounds of faith , he hath this expression , he therefore that believes the sacred scriptures , having a firm judgement doth receive the voyce of god who gave the scriptures , as an impregnable demonstration . ( although the text be commonly printed without the comma between 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , yet the sense and context makes it evident that it ought to be there , and accordingly sylburgius gives intimation of it in his notes , and gentian hervet in the translation as revised by heinsius applies the demonstration to what follows , but very weakly joynes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and not with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so renders it firmum habens judicium cui contradici nequit , whereas it is plain that there he intends to give an account what that foundation is , ●hich faith doth stand on . ) and after having made a large discourse concerning the nature of faith comparing the judgement of philosophers concerning it , he concludes with this saying , that it is an absurd thing for the followers of pythagoras to suppose that his ipse dixit was instead of a demonstration to them ; and yet those who are the lovers of truth not to believe the sure testimony of our only saviour and god , but to exact proofs of him of what he spake . wherein he discovers that christianity requires from men no unreasonable thing in expecting assent where no such kind of proofs as those used by philosophers are ; but if the epicureans did suppose some kind of anticipation necessary to knowledge , if the pythagoreans relyed on authority , if heraclitus quarrell'd with such as could neither hear nor speak , i. e. such as neither had authority themselves , and yet would rely on none ; it could not be judged any absurd thing that christianity did require such an assent to what christ delivered , especially considering that he was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. that he discovered sufficient reason why he was to be believed in whatever he spake . and thence elsewhere he sayes , that faith is a sure demonstration , because truth follows whatever is delivered from god. and when he gives an account what that true knowledge is which the christian hath , he shews what things are requisite to it ; two things knowledge supposeth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , enquiry and discovery ; the enquiry ( saith he ) is an impulse of the mind for the finding out of something by some signs which are proper to it ; discovery , is the end and rest of enquiry , which lyes in the comprehension of the thing , which is properly knowledge . now the signs by which things are discovered , are either precedent , concomitant , or subsequent . all these he thus applyes to the scriptures . the discovery , as the end of our enquiry after god , is , the doctrine delivered by his son ; but the signs whereby we know that he was the son of god , precedent , are the prophesies declaring his coming ; concomitant , were the testimonies concerning his birth ; subsequent , are those miracles , which were published , and manifestly shewed to the world after his ascension . therefore the peculiar evidence that the truth is with us , is , that the son of god himself hath taught us . a place not so clear in it self , as miserably involved through the oscitancy of the latin interpreter , in which it is plain , that clemens doth exactly , according to all rational principles of knowledge , give an account of the grounds of christian faith ; the main principle of which , is , the doctrine delivered by christ ; which , that it ought to be assented to , appears by a full concurrence of all those signs which are necessary in enquiries ; here are the greatest precedent signs ( prophesies , made so long before , exactly accomplished in him ) the fullest concomitant signs ( in the many wonderful things which happened at his coming into the world ) and the clearest subsequent signs by those great and uncontrouled miracles , which were wrought in the world after his ascension ; all which put together do evidently prove that he was the son of god who delivered this doctrine to us , and therefore deserves our most firm assent in what ever appears to be his word . can any thing then be more apparent then his resolution of faith into the rational evidence of christs being the son of god , which is manifested to us not by the infallible testimony of any church , but by the infallibl●●●gns of it which were precedent to , attendant on , and consequent to his appearance in the world . if therefore ( saith he ) according to plato , truth can only be learned , either from god , or those who are come from him , we may justly boast that we learn the truth from the son of god , taking the testimonies out of those sacred oracles , which were first prophesied and then fully declared , viz. by accomplishment . the main ground of faith then , is such as the wisest philosophers did admit of , viz. that whatsoever god said is true , and none can deliver truth but such as come from him , on which account there is nothing left , but evidence that he in whom we believe was the son of god , which is abundantly manifested by the accomplishment of those prophesies in him which were made so long before . after which he disputes against the same sort of hereticks which irenaeus did , and upon the same principles , viz. that whatever god or christ thought necessary for us to know or believe , is consigned to us in the writings of the prophets and apostles ; and thence he cites that out of peters 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( a book i suppose then extant under that name ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nothing without the written word , where was the unwritten word then ? and in the end of that book discovers the weakness of philosophy , because it came from meer men : but men , as men , are no sufficient teachers when they speak concerning god. for ( saith he ) man cannot speak 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 things becoming god ; for being weak and mortal he cannot speak as he ought of a being infinite and immortal , nor he that is the work of him who made it ; besides he that cannot speak truth concerning himself ▪ how much less is he to be believed concerning god ? for as much as man wants of divine power , so much must his speech fall short of god , when he discourseth of him . for mans speech is naturally weak and unable to express god ; not only as to his essence , but as to his power and works ; thence he concludes a necessity that god by his spirit must discover himself to men , which revelation he proves to be only extant among christians , because of the many divine testimonies that christ was the son of god , because the knowledge that came by him was so remarkably dispersed abroad in the world , and did prevail , notwithstanding all opposition and persecution . for ( saith he ) the greek philosophy if any ordinary magistrate forbid it did presently sink ; but our doctrine hath been forbid from its first publishing , by the kings and potentates of the earth , who have used their utmost industry to destroy both us and that together , but still it flourisheth , and the more for its being persecuted ; for it dyes not like a humane doctrine , nor perisheth like a weak gift . thus we see that he insists on rational evidence as the great and sufficient testimony into which our faith is resolved as to the being of a divine revelation . in his next book he answers some objections of the heathens against believing christianity , of which the chiefest was , the dissension among the christians , wherein ( if ever ) he had an opportunity to declare what the certain rule of faith is , and what power god hath left his church for determining matters to be believed by us . but for want of understanding this necessary foundation of faith , viz. the churches infallibility , he is fain to answer this objection just as a protestant would do . . if this were an argument against truth , the objectors had none themselves , for both jews and greeks had heresies among them . . the very coming of heresies was an argument of the truth of scripture , because that had expresly foretold them . . this argument doth not hold any where else , therefore it should not in reason here , viz. where there is any dissent there can be no certainty ; for though physitians differ much from one another , yet patients are not thereby discouraged from seeking to them for cure . . this should only make men use more care and diligence in the search and enquiry after truth ; for they will find abundant recompence for their search in the pleasure of finding truth . would any one say , because two apples are offered to him , the one a real fruit , the other made of wax , that therefore he will meddle with neither ; but rather that he ought to use more care to distinguish the one from the other ? if there be but one high way and many by-paths which lead to precipices , rivers , or the sea , will he not go in the highway because there are such false ones ? but rather go in it with the more care , and get the exactest knowledge of it he can . doth a gardener cast off the care of his garden because weeds grow up with his herbs ? or rather , doth he not use the more diligence to distinguish one from the other ? so ought we to do in discerning truth . . that all those who seriously enquire after truth may receive satisfaction . for either mans mind is capable of evidence , or it is not ; if not , it is to no purpose to trouble ourselves with any thing of knowledge at all ; if it be , then we must descend to particular questions , by which we may demonstratively learn from the scriptures how the heresies fell off from them : and that the most exact knowledge is preserved in truth alone , and the ancient church . if then heresies must be demonstratively confuted out of scriptures , what then doth he make to be the rule to judge of controversies , but only them ? for what he speaks of the ancient church , he speaks of it as in conjunction with truth and in opposition to those novel heresies of the basilidians and valentinians . for , that he doth not at all appeal to the judgement of any church much less the present , as having any infallibility whereon men ought to rely in matters of faith , appears likewise by his following words . but those ( saith he ) who are willing to imploy themselves in the most excellent things , will never give over the search of truth , till they have received a demonstration of it from the scriptures themselves . here we see , the last resolution of assent , is into the scriptures themselves , without any the least mention or intimation of any infallibility in the church , either to deliver , or interpret those scriptures to us : and after , gives the true account of heresies , viz. mens not adhering to the scriptures . for ( saith he ) they must necessarily be deceived in the greatest things who undertake them , unless they hold fast the rule of truth , which they received from truth it self . and in this following discourse he goes as high as any protestants whatever ( even such who suppose the scripture to be principium indemonstrabile , by any thing but it self ) for he makes the doctrine delivered by christ , to be the principle of our faith , and we make use of it ( saith he ) to be our 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to find out other things by . but , whatever is judged , is not believed till it be judged , therefore that can be no principle which stands in need of being judged . justly therefore when we have by faith received that indemonstrable principle , and from the principle it self used demonstrations concerning it self , we are by the voice of our lord instructed in the knowledge of truth . nothing can be more plain in what he saith , than that , if there were a higher 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 than scripture ( as there must be , if we are to receive it on the account of the churches infallible testimony ) the scripture could not be call'd the principle of our faith , but when we receive the scripture , the evidence we have that it is our principle must be fetched from it self ; and therefore he does here in terms ( as express as may be ) resolve the belief of scripture into internal arguments , and makes it as much a principle supposed as ever his lordship doth . and immediately after , when he proposeth that very question , how this should be proved to others , we expect not ( saith he ) any proof from men , but we prove the thing sought for by the word of god , which is more worthy belief than any demonstration , or rather which is the only demonstration , by the knowledge of which , those who have tasted of the scripture alone become believers . can any one who reads these words ever imagine , that this man speaks like one , that said , that the scriptures of themselves appear no more to be gods word , than distinction of colours to a blind man ? how much beyond the valentinians , and basilidians would clemens have accounted so great a madness ? who so plainly asserts the scriptures to be proved by themselves , and that not casually , or in the heat of argument ; but lest we should not throughly apprehend his meaning repeats it again in the same page , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , perfectly demonstrating the scriptures by themselves . and are not all these testimonies of such persons so near the apostolical times , sufficient to acquaint us what the grounds of the resolution of faith were in the christian church ? when all of them do so unanimously fix on the scripture , and not so much as mention the infallible testimonies of any church , much less the roman . much more might be cited out of this excellent authour to the same purpose , particularly where he refutes the valentinians , who deserted the scriptures , and pleaded tradition : but the testimonies already produced are so plain , that it will be to no purpose to produce any more . it were easie to continue an account of the same grounds of faith , through the succeeding writers of the christian church , who have designedly writ on that subject , in vindication of christian religion , which they unanimously prove to be divine , chiefly by these arguments ; from the undoubted miracles which were wrought by christ , and his apostles , from the exact fulfilling of prophecies , and the admirable propagation of the christian doctrine ; all which are particularly insisted on by origen against celsus ; by tertullian , in his apologetick , adversus scapulam , and elsewhere ; by minucius felix , arnobius , and lactantius ; not to mention eusebius in his books of preparation and cyril's answer to julian and others . ( but , having elsewhere more fully and largely considered that subject , i rather chuse to referr the reader to what hath been there handled already , than to tire his patience with either repeating the same , or adding more testimonies to the same purpose . ) only that which is most pertinent to our present purpose , i shall here add , whether is it credible that those persons who fully understood the doctrine of christianity , who were themselves rational and inquisitive men , and writ for the satisfaction not only of subtle adversaries , but of doubting and staggering christians , should so unanimously agree in insisting on the evidence of matter of fact , for the truth of the thing delivered in scripture , and the fore-mentioned arguments for the divinity of the doctrine therein delivered , had it not been the judgement of the church they lived in , that the resolution of faith was into those grounds on which they insisted ? and is it again credible , that any of them should believe the testimony of the church to be necessary as infallible , in order to a divine faith , and that without it , the scriptures could not be believed as divine , and yet in all their disputes with the gentiles concerning the doctrine of christianity , and with several hereticks ( as the marcionists , &c. ) concerning the books of scripture , upon no occasion should mention this grand palladium of faith , viz. the infallibility of the present church ? and lastly , is it credible , that when in our modern controversies men do evidently maintain faction and interest , more than the common principles of christianity ( that he must be blinder than one that can see no distinction of colours , that doth not discern on what account this infallibility is now pretended ) is it , i say , credible ▪ that a doctrine pretended so necessary for our believing scriptures with divine faith , should be so concealed ; when it ought , for the honour and interest of christianity to have been most divulged ? which now only in these last and worst times is challenged by an usurping party in the church as left by christ himself ( when no other evidence can be given of it , but what was common to all ages of the church ) as belonging to such a party under the pretence of the catholick church , which doth so apparently use it only to uphold her pretended authority , and so makes it serve to the worst ends , and the most unworthy designs . having thus far considered what the judgement of those fathers was concerning the resolution of faith , who lived nearest the apostolical times ; i should now come to consider what you can produce out of antiquity , for your churches infallibility , or more generally , for any infallible testimony supposed in the catholick church ( whatever that be ) in order to a foundation for divine faith : but you very prudently avoid the testimonies of antiquity in so necessary a subject as this is ; for , those testimonies mentioned in the foregoing chapter , in explication of matth. . . takeing them , as you have in so loose and careless a manner produced them , make nothing at all for the churches infallible testimonie ; but only assert that which is not denied , that there shall alwaies be a christian church in the world . our only remaining task then , as to this , is , to examine in what way you seek to enervate the testimonies produced by his lordship out of antiquity , which you do in the latter part of chap. . his lordship had truly said , that this method and manner of proving the scripture to be the word of god , which he useth , is the same which the ancient church ever held , namely tradition , or ecclesiastical authority first , and then all other arguments , but especially internal from the scripture it self . for which he cites , first , the church in s. augustine 's time . he was no enemy to church-tradition ( saith his lorship ) yet when he would prove that the authour of the scripture ( and so of the whole knowledge of divinity , as it is supernatural ) is god in christ , he takes this as the all-sufficient way , and gives four proofs all internal to the scripture . . the miracles . . that there is nothing carnal in the doctrine . . that there hath been such performance of it . . that by such a doctrine of humility , the whole world almost hath been converted . and whereas ad muniendam fidem , for the defending of the faith , and keeping it entire , there are two things requisite , scripture and church-tradition ; vincent . lyrinens . places authority of scriptures first , and then tradition . and since it is apparent , that tradition is first in order of time , it must necessarily follow ; that scripture is first in order of nature , that is the chief upon which faith rests and resolves it self . to this , ( after you have needlesly explained his lordships opinion in this controversie ) you begin to answer thus ; he cites first vincentius lyrinensis , l. . c. . who makes our faith to be confirmed both by scripture and tradition of the catholick church . but , are not you like to be trusted in citing fathers who doubly falsifie a testimony of your adversaries , when you may be so easily disproved ? for . you tell us , he cites that first , which he produceth last . . you cite that as produced by him for the foundation of faith , which he expresly cites for the preservation of the doctrine of faith ; so he tells you ad muniendam fidem , &c. can any thing be more plain and obvious to any one who looks into that discourse of vincentius , than that he makes it not his business to give an account of the general foundations of faith as to the scriptures being gods word , but of the particular doctrines of faith , in opposition to the heresies which arise in the church . so that all that he speaks concerning scripture , is not about the authority , but the sense and interpretation of it . if therefore i should grant you , that he speaks of christian and divine faith , what is this to your purpose , unless you could prove that he speaks of that divine faith , whereby we believe the scripture to be the word of god. but yet your argument is very good to prove , that he speaks not of any humane fallible perswasion , but true christian divine faith ; for he opposes it to heresie , and calls it sound faith , and his faith. it seems then , whatever faith is sound for the matter of it , is presently christian , divine , and infallible ; and so , whosoever believes any thing which is materially true , in opposition to heresies , needs never fear as long as he doth so , for according to you he hath christian and infallible faith ; but , what if the devils faith be as sound as any catholicks ' , must it therefore be divine faith ? no ( it may be you will answer ) because he wants the formal object of faith , and doth not believe on the account of your churches infallibility ; i verily believe you ; for he knows the jugglings of it too much to believe it infallible . but , take vincentius in what sense you please , that is evident in him which his lordship produced him for , that , for the preserving faith entire , he places authority of scripture first , and then tradition ( unless you will serve his testimony , as you do his lordships , because it makes for your purpose , say , he mentions tradition first , and then scripture ) but , say you , he sayes tradition doth as truly confirm divine faith , as scripture , though scripture doth it in a higher manner . if you did but consider , either what kind of tradition , or what kind of faith vincentius insists on , you could not possibly think his words any thing to your purpose . for he speaks not of any tradition infallibly attested to us , without which you pretend there can be no divine faith , but of such an vniversal tradition which depends wholly upon antiquity , vniversality , and consent , and never so much as mentions , much less pretends to any thing of infallibility : so that if you grant such a kind of tradition , doth as truly confirm faith as the scripture , , then you must grant no necessity of an infallible testimony to assure us of that tradition , for vincentius speaks of such a kind of tradition , as hath no connexion with infallibility . for if vincentius had ever in the least , thought of any such thing , so great and zealous an opposer of heresies would not have left out that which had been more to his purpose , than all that he had said , for wise men , who have throughly considered of vincentius his way , though in general they cannot but approve of it so far as to think it highly improbable , that there should be antiquity , vniversality , and consent against the true and genuine sense of scripture , yet when they consider this way of vincentius , with all those cautions , restrictions , and limitations set down by him ( ● . . c. . ) they are apt to think , that he hath put men to a wild-goose-chase to finde out any thing according to his rules ; and that s. augustine spake a great deal more to the purpose , when he spake concerning all the writers of the church ; that although they had never so much learning and sanctity , he did not think it true , because they thought so , but because they perswaded him to believe it true , either from the authority of scripture , or some probable reason . if therefore s. austin's authority be not sunk so low as that of the monk of lerins , we have very little reason to think that tradition can as truly confirm faith to us as the scriptures , supposing that to have been the meaning of vincentius . which yet is not reasonable to imagine , since vincentius himself grants , that in case of inveterate heresie or schism , either the sole authority of scripture is to be used , or at most the determinations of general councils ; nay , and in all cases doth suppose , that the canon of scripture is perfect , and is abundantly sufficient of it self for all things . can you yet therefore suppose , that vincentius did think that tradition did as truly confirm our faith as the scripture ? which is your assertion , and the only thing whereby you pretend that the bishop hath misconstrued vincentius ; but whether be more guilty of it , i leave to impartial judgement . the next testimony you consider , is , that of henricus à gandavo . for his lordship had said , that the school had confessed , this was the way ever . for which he cites the testimony of that schoolman , that daily with them that are without christ enters by the woman , i. e. the church , and they believe by that fame which she gives ( alluding to the story of the woman of samaria . ) but when they come to hear christ himself , they believe his words before the words of the woman : for when they have once found christ , they do more believe his words in scripture , than they do the church , which testifies of him ; because then propter illam , for the scripture they believe the church . and if the church should speak contrary to the scripture , they would not believe it . thus ( saith his lordship ) the school taught then . no , that did it not ( say you . ) but let us see , how rarely you prove it : for ( you say ) he speaks all this of a supernatural and divine faith to be given , both to the scriptures , and the church . gandavensis certainly is much obliged to you , who venture to speak such great absurdities for his sake ; for if he be understood in both places of divine and infallible faith , these rare consequences follow . . that the first beginning of faith is equal to the highest degree of it ; for when he speaks of the church , he speaks of christs entring by that , which can be meant of nothing else but the first step to faith , as is plain in the parallel case of the woman of samaria ; but if this were divine and infallible , it must be equal to the highest degree , for that i suppose can be but divine and infallible , unless you can find out degrees in infallibility . by this rule , you make him that is but over the threshold , as much in the house , as he that is sate down to the table ; a plant at its first peeping out of the earth , to be as tall as at its full growth ; and the samaritans as firmly to believe in christ at the first mention of him by the woman , as when they saw and heard him . . by this you make an infallible faith to be built on a fallible testimony ; for to what purpose else was the similitude of the woman of samaria insisted on , but to parallel the testimony of the church with that of the woman , and consequently the faith built on the churches testimony to be like that which the samaritans had of christ upon the womans testimony ; and if you believe that faith infallible , you must assert , an infal●●ble faith to be built on a fallible testimony , and yet to be as infallible , as that which is built on an infallible testimony : and then , i pray , tell me , to what end would you make your churches testimony infallible , if faith may be infallible without it ? but , it may be , though these seem hard things , yet you prove them invincibly : no doubt of it ; for , you say , that christ enters by that faith , but christ cannot enter into a soul by a meer humane fallible perswasion , but by divine faith only . nay , when he says , that he more believes the scripture , than the churches testimony , he saith , that he believes the church ; but how can he believe without faith ? o the irresistible force of demonstrations ! but what silly people are we , that thought a man might enter into a house by the door , though he met not with his hearty entertainment till afterwards ? but , do you really think , that christ never enters into a soul , but by divine and infallible faith ? for christ enters by that which gives him his first admission , but his full reception must be by a higher degree of faith. do you think men believe as much at first as ever after ? if not , may not christ be said to enter by that lower degree of faith ? i pray , what think you of the case in hand , did not the belief of christ enter by the woman of samaria ? and was that , as divine a faith , as what they had afterwards ? nay , take christs entring ( as improperly as you can imagine it ) for his hearty reception in the soul , can that be no other waies but by an infallible faith ? a faith supposed to be built on infallible grounds , i grant ; but whether all , who do truly believe in christ , do build their faith on grounds in themselves infallible , my charity to some deluded souls in your church ( as well as honest , but ignorant persons elsewhere ) gives me just reason to question . but still there is a greater subtilty behind , which is , if he believes the scripture more than the church , then he must believe the church equally with the scripture ; for that must be the meaning of what you say , when he sayes , he believes the scripture more than the church , he believes the church ; but how can he believe without faith ? ergo , this must be divine faith , or else all the rest come to nothing . so that if i say , i believe the scripture more than you , it follows , that i believe you as much as the scripture , by the very same consequence . but you have gotten such a knack of contradicting your self , that poor gandavo cannot fall into your hands , but you must make him do so too . when you say , a man cannot believe without faith , i dare justifie it to be one of the greatest truths in your book ; but , if your meaning be , a man cannot believe without divine faith , i hope we protestants sufficiently confute that ; for you dare not deny that we believe at all , but ( just as the devils do ) we must ( according to you ) believe and tremble , because our faith is not divine and infallible . but still your subtilty works with you , for because gandavensis saith , that we must yield our first faith to the scripture , but , secundam sub ista , a secondary faith to the definitions and customs of the catholick church : you cry out , here 's prima & secunda fides ; but yet both of them are properly and truly faith. but , are both of them properly and truly divine faith ? if so , how comes the distinction of the first and second , one subordinate to the other , if both be equally divine and infallible ? nay , according to your principles , the faith given to the church must be the first faith , and to the scriptures the second under that ; because , for the sake of the churches testimony , we are to believe the scriptures . and , do you really think , there may be no discovery of infidelity in rejecting a sufficient testimony for faith , where there is not an infallible testimony ? but , whatever you think , your great enemy , reason , tells us the contrary ; and therefore what follows of believing the church , sub poenâ perfidiae , is to no more purpose than what went before . the strength therefore of all that you say as to this testimony of gandavensis , lyes in the proof of this one thing ; that no man can believe any thing without an infallible faith ; yet i verily believe that you have miserably perverted the schoolmens words , and think no more infallible testimony requisite for it , than your own words . but , it may be , though you do so ill by the schoolmen , you may use the fathers more civilly . three things therefore you have to answer to those testimonies of the fathers , which seem most to make use of internal arguments . . that they use them not to such as had no divine faith , but to such as had . . that they do not use them as primary , infallible and divine proofs , but as secondary arguments , perswasive only to such as believed scripture to be gods word antecedently to them . . that they do not use only such proofs as are wholly internal to the scripture it self . as to the two first conditions , you say 't is evident , these proofs were made by christians , namely the holy fathers ; and commonly to christians , who lived in their times . and as clear is it , that they never pronounced them to be the primary , infallible , and divine motives of their belief in that point , nor used they them as such . how false and absurd these answers are , may appear by our precedent discourse , wherein we manifested , that the christians insisted on those arguments there mentioned not for themselves and other christians , but chiefly to convince and perswade by them the gentile world to the belief of christianity . and , did they suppose these heathens to have a divine faith already ? or , did they look on such arguments as only secondary motives , when these were the chief , nay only arguments which they used to perswade them ; if they had other that were primary , divine , and infallible , and only made use of secondary , humane , probable motives , they were guilty of the highest betraying the christian cause imaginable . and you make them only to defend christianity , as vaninus did divine providence with such silly and weak arguments , that by their overthrow , the belief of it might fall with them . indeed , if they had pretended the infallible testimony of the church , there might have been just reason for such a suspicion , and any wise men would have thought their design had been to make their religion contemptible , and expose it to the derision of atheists , instead of better establishing the foundations of believing it . but those wise and holy men knew better the interest of christianity , than to offer to defend it by principles in themselves false , and much more liable to question than that was which they were to prove by them : and therefore made choice of arguments in themselves strong and evident , and built on principles , common to themselves , and those whom they disputed against , i. e. they urged them with the greatest strength of reason , and the clearest evidence of divine revelation , and never questioned but that a faith built on those grounds , if effectual for a holy life , was a true and divine faith. it seems then , your cause cannot be maintained , without the most sharp and virulent reflections on those primitive christians , who among all those arguments whereby they so successfully prevailed over the gentile world , never did so much as vouchsafe to mention the least pretence to infallibility ; for which they are now accused of using only the blunter weapons , of humane and fallible motives , and not those primary and divine motives of infallibility . but this is not the first time we have seen , what desperate shifts a bad cause puts men upon . it may be yet , your strength may lye in your last condition , viz. that these arguments used by them , were not internal . for , . you say , that of miracles is external ; the scriptures themselves work none , neither were ever any miracles wrought to confirm , that all the books now in the canon ( and no more ) are the word of god. i answer , . i have already told you of a double resolution of faith , the one as to the divinity of the doctrine , the other as to the veracity of the books which contain it : when therefore miracles are insisted on , it is not in order to the latter of these which we have sufficient assurance of without them , as i have already largely proved , both as to the truth and integrity of the canon of scripture ; but miracles , we say , are the arguments to prove the divinity of the doctrine by , because they attest the divine revelation of the persons , who deliver this doctrine to the world . . as to us who receive the report of those miracles , as conveyed to us by the scripture , those may be said to be internal arguments to the scripture , which are there recorded in order to our believing the doctrine therein contained to be divine . the motives of faith being delivered to us now joyntly with the doctrine , although on different grounds we believe the veracity of the books of scripture , and the infallibility of the doctrine contained in it . we believe that the miracles were truly done , because they are delivered to us by an unquestionable tradition , in such authentick writings as the scriptures are ; but we believe the doctrine contained in the books to be divine , because attested by such miracles , and we believe the books of scripture to be divinely inspired , because such persons cannot be supposed to falsifie to the world who wrought such great miracles . . you say , the conversion of so many people and nations by the doctrine contained in scripture , is also external to the scripture . but still you suppose that these arguments are brought to prove these books to be divinely inspired , which is denied ; we say only , that the admirable propagation of the doctrine of the gospel , is a great argument that it was from god. and therefore , when afterwards you say , that supposing all those arguments mentioned by the bishop out of s. augustine , to be internal to the scripture , yet they cannot infallibly and divinely prove that scripture is the word of god. if by scripture , you mean the writings , we pretend not to it ; if by scripture , you mean the doctrine of it , we assert it , and think it no argument at all against that , which you add , that perswade they may , but convince they cannot ; no doubt if they perswade , they do much more than convince ; but , i suppose , your meaning is , they do it not effectually ; if so , that is not the fault of the arguments , but of the person , who by his obstinacy , will not hearken to the clearest evidence of reason . all that this can prove , is a necessity of divine grace to go along with external evidence , which you dare not assert , for fear of running into that private spirit , which you objected to his lordship on the same account . but it is very pretty which follows : you say , supposing that all those arguments mentioned , of miracles , nothing carnal in the doctrine , performance of it , and conversion of the world by it , were all of them internal to scripture , yet they could not prove infallibly the scripture to be the word of god ; and to prove this , you tell us , concerning the third and fourth , how can it ever be proved , that either the performance of this doctrine , or the conversion of nations is internal to scripture . but , did you not suppose them before to be internal to scripture ? and though they were so , yet could not prove the scriture , & c ? and to prove that , you say they cannot be proved internal to scripture . which is just as if i should say , if you were pope you would not be infallible ; and all the evidence i should give for it , should be only to prove that you were not pope . you conclude this chapter with a wonder ( i mean not any thing of reason which would really be so ) but , say you , who can sufficiently wonder , that his lordship , for these four motives , should so easily make the scripture give divine testimony to it self , upon which our faith must rest , and yet deny the same priviledge to the church . seeing it cannot be denied , but that every one of these motives are much more immediately and clearly applied to the church , than to the scripture . what ? more immediately and clearly ? and so clearly , that it cannot be denied ? prove but any one of them as to that church , whose infallibility is in question , viz. the present roman-church , and i will yield you the rest . produce but any one undoubted miracle , to confirm the infallibility of your church , or the pastors of it , shew your doctrine ( wherein it differs from ours ) not to be carnal , manifest the performance of the christian doctrine , only in the members of your church , prove that it is your church , as such , which hath preached this doctrine , and converted whole nations to the belief of it ( in any other way than the spaniards did the poor indians ) and we may begin to hearken with somewhat more patience to your arrogant and unreasonable pretence of infallibility . can any one then who hath any grain of reason left him , think that from these arguments , while his lordship disputes most eagerly against the present churches infallibility , he argues mainly for it , as you very wisely conclude that chapter . if this be arguing for your churches infallibility , much good may such arguments do you . and so i come to the last part of my task as to this controversie , which is , to examine your next chapter , which puts us in hopes of seeing an end of this tedious controversie : but this containing very little new in it ( and therefore deserves not to be handled apart ) will on that account admit of a quicker dispatch . in which the first section begins with s. austin's testimony , which should have been considered before , and now it comes out with the same answer attending it , which was given so lately concerning primary and infallible , and secondary and probable motives of faith , the vanity of which is sufficiently discovered . whereas in your margent , you bring an example of such a probable motive , viz. when s. austin saith to faustus , that as constant tradition was sufficient for him to believe that that epistle was manichaeus his , which went under his name ; so the same tradition was sufficient to him to prove the gospel was s. matthew 's , which was so universally received for his , ever since the writing of it . i am so far from thinking this a meer probable motive , that it is the highest evidence the matter is capable of , and so s. austin thought . your paralleling the saying of waldensis ( that if the church should speak any thing contrary to scripture , he would not believe her ) with another which you pretend to be s. austin's ; if the scripture should speak any thing contrary to the church , we could not believe that neither ; and then saying that both proceed on an impossible supposition , must imply , that it is an equal impossibility for the church to deliver any thing contrary to the doctrine of scripture , as for the scripture to contradict it self ; for to say , the scripture should contradict the church , signifies nothing , because the being of the church is founded on the doctrine of scripture . all that s. austin saith , in the place you referr us to , comes to no more than this , if the church were found deceived in the writings of scripture , then there could be no ground of any firm assent to them . and , is this , i pray , a fit parallel for that speech of waldensis ? is this to say , if the scripture speak any thing against the church , it is not to be believed ? in your next sect. n. , . you fall from parallels , to circles , and semicircles ( as you call them ) in which you only shew us your faculty of mumbling the same things over and over , concerning his lordships mistating the question , about infallible and divine faith , apostolical tradition , the formal object of faith , which i must , out of charity to the readers patience , beg him to look back for the several answers , if he thinks any thing needs it ; for i am now quite tired with these repetitions , there being not one word added here , but what hath been answered already . but , lest th●se should not enough tire us , the next sect. n. . consists of the old puff-paste of ultimate motive , and formal object , of the infallibility which is not simply divine , and others of a like nature , whose vanity hath been detected in the very entrance into this controversie . it seems you had a great mind to give the bishop a blow , when you reach as far , as from p. , to p. . to do it , and yet fall short of it at last ; for , though you charge him with a false citation of s. austin , for these words , fidei ultima resolutio est in deum illuminantem , yet in that chapter , though not the words , yet the sense is there extant , when he gives that account of christian faith , that it comes not by the authority of men , but from god himself confirming and inlightening our mind . is not here a plain resolution of faith in deum illuminantem ? and therefore your charge of false citation , and your confident denial , that there is any such text to be found either there , or any where else in all s. augustine , argue , you are not careful what you say , so you may but throw dirt in your adversaries face , though we may easily know from whence it comes , by the foulness of your fingers . and for your other challenge , of producing any testimony of the fathers which saith , that we must resolve our faith of scripture into the light of scriptures ; i hope the testimonies i have in this chapter mentioned , may teach you a little more modesty : and for the other part of it , that we cannot believe the scripture infallibly for the churches authority , as far as a negative can be proved , i dare appeal to the judgement of any one . whether it be possible to believe that the fathers judged , the certainty , much less infallibility of christian faith did depend on the churches infallible testimony , and yet never upon the most just occasion do so much as mention it , but rather speak very much to the contrary . his lordship having thus at large delivered his mind in this important controversie ; to make what he had said the more portable , summs up the substance of it in several considerations . which being only a recapitulation of what hath been fully discussed already , will need the shorter vindication , in some brief strictures , where you unjustly quarrel with them . to his . that it seems reasonable , that since all sciences suppose principles ; theology should be allowed some too ; the chiefest of which is , that the scriptures are of divine authority ; your answer is considerable ; viz. that he confounds theology , a discoursive science , with faith , which is an act of the vnderstanding , produced by an impulse of the will , &c. but not to examine what hath been already handled , of the power of the will in the act of faith , it is plain when his lordship speaks of theology , he means theology , and not faith ; and the intent of this consideration was to shew , the unreasonableness of starting this question in a theological dispute about the church . in your answer to the second , you say , that fallible motives cannot produce certainty , which if you would prove , you would do more to the purpose than you have done yet , and by this argument , i could not be certain , whether you had done it or no , unless you brought some infallible motives to prove it . the third you pass over . the fourth you grant , though not very consistently with what you elsewhere say : as to what you say in answer to the fifth , concerning miracles , i agree with you in it , having elsewhere sufficiently declared my self as to them . for the sixth you referr to your former answer , and so do i to the reply to it . in the seventh , his lordship proves the necessity of some revelation from god rationally and strongly , and thence inferrs , that either there never was any such revelation , or that the scripture is that revelation , and that 's it we christians labour to make good against all atheism , prophaneness , and infidelity . to which you have two exceptions . . that this cannot be proved by the meer light of scripture , which his lordship never pretended to . . that he leaves out the word , only , which was the cause of the whole controversie ; what , between christians and atheists ? for of that controversie , he there speaks ; but since you are so fond of your unwritten revelations , pray prove the necessity of them as strongly against atheists , as his lordship hath done the necessity of a written one . in the last consideration he musters up all the several arguments whereby men may be perswaded , that this revelation is contained in those books we call the scripture ; as the tradition of the church , the testimony of former ages , the consent of times , the harmony of prophets , and the prophecies fulfilled , the success of the doctrine , the constancy of it , the spiritual nature and efficacy of it , and lastly , the inward light and excellency of the text it self ; which , with a great deal of rhetorick , is there set forth . but to all this you say no more than what hath been abundantly disproved , viz. that all these only justifie our belief , when it is received as the ancients received it upon the infallible authority of church-tradition , but never otherwise . whereas we have proved , that the ancients received it only on the same grounds , which are here mentioned , and therefore certainly are sufficient not only to justifie our faith , but to perswade us to believe . your argument against what his lordship saith of the necessity of the spirit 's assistance with these motives , and the light of scripture for producing divine faith , will equally hold against all those of your own side , who hold the necessity of gods spirit for believing the churches infallibility , and against all such of both sides , who hold any necessity of divine grace , for then you must say , that either that grace is not necessary in order to salvation , or that those who want it , are neither truly christians , nor capable of salvation . and how horridly soever these consequences sound in the ears of the unlearned , they can sound no worse than those multitudes of scriptures do which tell men , that without true divine faith , and real grace , they are under eternal condemnation . but , it may be , that the unlearned may not be affrighted with such sentences as those are , you think it a great deal better to let them hear little or nothing of the scripture , and to let them be continually entertained with the sweet and melodious voice of the church . no doubt , you thought , your next argument had done the business effectually ; for ( say you ) to make them more sensible of the foulness of this errour , viz. the danger of such who do not savingly believe , let them consider , that when young and unlearned christians are taught to say their creed , and profess their belief of the articles contained in it , before they read scripture , they are taught to lye , and profess to do that , which they neither do , nor can do in his tenet . an excellent argument against making children say their creed ! but , will not the same hold against all publick using of the creed , because it is unquestionable but there are some who do not savingly or divinely believe it ? nay , will it not much more hold against any in your church , saying their creed at all , unless they first believe your church to be infallible , which is very well known that all do not . for then , according to you , they do but lye , and profess to do that which they neither do , nor can do , without the churches infallible testimony : and therefore you must begin a new work of catechizing the members of your church , to know whether they believe the churches infallibility , before they can say their creed . unless you solve it among your selves , by saying , it is not a formal lye , but only an aequivocation , which many of you say , is lawful in case of danger , as you see apparently this is . but if the aequivocation be said only to lye in the word believe , you might easily discern the weakness of your argument , through it . for if some may truly believe what they do not savingly believe , there is no lye certainly told , in saying , they do believe as far as they do ; which is by a firm assent to the truth of all the articles of faith , by that which is call'd an historical , or dogmatical faith , where there may be no saving faith. but that because children are taught ( as a short systeme of the articles of faith ) to say their creed , we must be convinced of the foulness of our errour , is an apparent evidence , that either you apprehended our understandings to be very weak , or that you sufficiently discover your own to be so . the only quarrel which you have with his lordships synthetical way , is , that he confounds his reader with multiplicity of arguments , and weakens the authority of the church , without which ( if you may be believed ) he might tire himself and others , but never be able to make a clear resolution of faith. how clear an account you have given of faith in your analytical way , by the authority of the church , hath been sufficiently laid open to you ; but i wonder not that you quarrel with multiplicity of arguments , there being nothing which doth really weaken the authority of your church so much as they do , and they are men certainly of your temper , who will be soon tired with too much reason . what follows concerning the captiousness of the question as first propounded ; and the vicious circle you would free your selves of , by the motives of credibility ; deserve no further answer . only when you would make a. c. go your way , and both together prove the church infallible independently on scripture , you did not certainly consider , that it is an infallibility by promise , which you challenge , and , for that end , in the precedent chapter , were those places of scripture produced by a. c. and urged by you . all that i shall return by way of answer to your tedious discourse concerning scriptures being a principle supposed among christians ( the main of it depending on the circumstances of the dispute between his lordship and mr. fisher ) shall be in these following particulars . . that in all controversies among christians , whose decision depends upon the authority of scripture , the scripture must be supposed as granted to be of divine authority by both parties . . that in that question , whether the scripture contains all necessary things of faith , that necessity must be supposed to relate to the things which depend upon scripture , and therefore implies it believed on other grounds , that this scripture is of divine revelation . for the question is , whether god hath consigned his will so fully to us , in this revelation of himself , that nothing necessary to be believed is left out of it ? for men then to say , that this is left out of it , viz. to believe that this is a divine revelation , is an unreasonable cavil , it being supposed in the very question , that it is so . . that in this sense the scripture may be said to be a supposed principle , because it hath a different way of probation , from particular objects of faith , revealed in scripture . for to a rational enquirer , who seems to doubt of the truth of scriptures , it is equally absurd to give him any one of these three answers . . that it is a principle to be supposed : for , though it be supposed as to the particular debate depending on scripture ; yet it is fond and absurd to say , it must be supposed when it is the thing in question . . that it is known meerly by its own light : for the person i have to deal with , supposing himself equally capable to judge of reason and evidence , as my self , it doth but betray the weakness of my cause , or my inability to manage it , to pretend that to be evident , which it is much more evident that he doth not think so ; and it is only to tell him , my vnderstanding must rule his , and that whatever appears to me to have light in it self , ought likewise so appear to him . . it is as absurd as either of the other two , to say , that you will prove to a rational enquirer , the scripture to be gods word , by an unwritten word of god. for , . his enquiry is , whether there be any word of god or no , you prove there is , because there is ; for that is all you prove by your unwritten word . he denies , or at least questions , whether there be any , and particularly instanceth in scripture ; you think to end the question , by telling him , he must believe it to be so , because there is another word of god which attests it , which , instead of ending the first question , begets a great many more . for , . he will be more to seek , concerning this unwritten word than before ; because he might use his reason in judging concerning the written word , but cannot as to this unwritten ; it being only told him , there is such a thing , but he knows not what it is , how far it extends , who must deliver it , what evidence this hath beyond the other , that it comes from god , that it must be used as an argument to prove it with . if you send him to the infallibility of the church , you must either presume him of a very weak vnderstanding , or else he would easily discern your perfect jugling in this ; the veins of which i have discovered throughout this discourse . there remains nothing then but reason , a principle common to us both ; by which i must prove , that the scriptures are from god , which reason partly makes use of the churches tradition , not in any notion of infallibility , but meerly as built on principles common to humane nature , and partly uses those other arguments which prove by the greatest rational evidence , that the doctrine contained in scripture , was from god ; and if this were all the meaning of saying , the scriptures are a principle supposed , because of a different way of proving them , from particular objects of faith , you can have no reason to deny it . the next thing his lordship insists on , is , that the jews never had , nor can have any other proof , that the old testament is the word of god , than we have of the new. in your answer to which , i grant that which you contend for , that the tradition of scriptures among them , was by their immediate ancestors as well as others ; i grant , that their faith was not a scientifical knowledge , but a firm & perfect assurance only ( but understand not what you mean , by saying , that otherwise it would not be meritorious ) but am as far to seek as ever for any infallibility in the jewish church , which should in every age be the ground of believing the books of the old testament to be divinely inspired . and if you will prove a constant succession of prophets from moses till our saviour's appearing ( which you seem willing to believe ) you would do something towards it ; but for your permanent infallible authority in the high priest and his clergy , i have already shewed it to be a groundless , if not a wilful mistake . what remains concerning the nature of infallibility ( which at last his lordship makes to be no more than that which excludes all possibility of doubting , and therefore grants , that an infallible assurance may be had by ecclesiastical and humane proof ) and how far that is requisite to faith ; concerning moral certainty , and what assurance may be had by it ; concerning the canon of scripture , apostolical tradition , the unwritten word , s. austin 's testimony about the church , they are all points so fully discussed before , that out of pity to the reader , i must referr him to their several places , which when he hath throughly considered , i will give him leave to summ up the several victories you have obtained in the management of it , which will be much more honourable for you , than for your self to do it , as you do most triumphantly in the end of this controversie concerning the resolution of faith. and although i have not been much surprized with your attempts , yet i shall heartily conclude this great debate with your last words in it . the consequence i leave to the serious consideration of the judicious reader . i beseech god he may make benefit of it to his eternal felicity . part ii. of schism . chap. i. of the universal church . the question of schism explained . the nature of it enquired into . several general principles laid down for clearing the present controversie . three grounds of the charge of schism on protestant churches by our authour . the first , of the roman churches being the catholick church , entered upon . how far the roman church may be said to be a true church . the distinction of a church morally and metaphysically true justified . the grounds of the vnity of the catholick church , as to doctrine and government . cardinal perron's distinction of the formal , causal , and participative catholick church examined . the true sense of the catholick church in antiquity manifested from st. cyprian , and several cases happening in his time : as , the schism of novatianus at rome ; the case of felicissimus and fortunatus . several other instances out of antiquity to the same purpose , by all which it is manifest that the unity of the catholick church had no dependance on the church of rome . the several testimonies to the contrary of st. ambrose , st. hierome , john patriarch of constantinople , st. augustine , optatus , &c. particularly examined ; and all found short of proving that the roman church is the catholick church . the several answers of his lordship to the testimonies of st. cyprian , st. hierom , st. greg. nazianzene , st. cyril , and ruffinus , about the infallibility of the church of rome , justified . from all which it appears that the making the roman-church to be the catholick , is a great novelty and perfect jesuitism . since so great and considerable parts of the christian church , have in these last ages been divided in communion from each other , the great contest and enquiry hath been , which party stands guilty of the cause of the present distance and separation . for , both sides retain still so much of their common christianity , as to acknowledge that no religion doth so strictly oblige the owners of it to peace and unity as the christian religion doth ; and yet notwithstanding this , we finde these breaches so farr from closing , that , supposing the same grounds to continue , a reconciliation seems to humane reason impossible . an evidence of which , is , that those persons who either out of a generous desire of seeing the wounds of the christian world healed , or out of some private interest or design , have made it their business to propound terms of reconciliation between the divided parties , have been equally rejected by those parties they have professed themselves the members of . for whether any of the roman communion have ingenuously confessed the great corruptions crept into that church , and desired a reformation of them , or any of the protestant communion have endeavoured to excuse , palliate , or plead for the corruptions of the roman church : we find how little incouragement they have had for such undertakings from that church whose communion they have professed to retain . the distance then being so great as it is , it is a very necessary enquiry what the cause of it is , and where the main fault lies ; and it being acknowledged that there is a possibility that corruptions may get into a christian church , and it being impossible to prove that christianity obligeth men to communicate with a church in all those corruptions its communion may be tainted with , it seems evident to reason that the cause of the breach must lye there , where the corruptions are owned and imposed as conditions of communion . for , can any one imagine it should be a fault in any to keep off from communion , where they are so far from being obliged to it , that they have an obligation to the contrary , from the prinples of their common christianity ? and where men are bound not to communicate , it is impossible to prove their not communicating to be schism . for there can be no schism , but where there is an obligation to communion ; schism being nothing else but a willful violation of the bonds of christian communion ; and therefore when ever you would prove the protestants guilty of schism , you must do it by proving they were bound to communicate with your church in those things , which they are protestants for disowning of . or that there is so absolute and unlimited an obligation to continue in the society of your church , that no conditions can be so hard , but we are bound rather to submit to them , than not joyn in communion with you . but we who look on the nature of a christian society in general , the foundations of its constitution , the ends and designs of it , cannot think our selves obliged to communion in those things which undermine those foundations , and contradict those ends . this being a matter of so vast consequence , in order to the settling mens minds in the present disputes of the christian world , before i come to particulars , i shall lay down those general principles which may manifest how free protestants are , from all imputation of schism . schism then importing a violation of that communion which we are obliged to , the most natural way for understanding what schism is , is to enquire what the foundations are of christian communion , and how far the bonds of it do extend . now the foundations of christian communion in general depend upon the acknowledgement of the truth of christian religion . for that religion which christ came to deliver to the world being supposed true , is the reason why any look on themselves as obliged to profess it ; which obligation extending to all persons who have the same grounds to believe the truth of it , thence ariseth the ground of society in this profession , which is a common obligation on several persons joyning together in some acts of common concernment to them . the truth then of christian religion being acknowledged by several persons , they find in this religion some actions which are to be performed by several persons in society with each other . from whence ariseth that more immediate obligation to christian society , in all those who profess themselves christians ; and the whole number of these who own the truth of christian religion and are thereby obliged to joyn in society with each other , is that which we call the catholick church . but although there be such a relation to each other in all christians as to make them one common society ; yet for the performance of particular acts of communion , there must be lesser societies wherein persons may joyn together in the actions belonging to them . but still the obligation to communion in these lesser , is the same with that which constitutes the great body of christians , which is the owning christianity as the only true religion and way to eternal happiness . and therefore those lesser societies cannot in justice make the necessary conditions of communion narrower , than those which belong to the catholick church ; i. e. those things which declare men christians , ought to capacitate them for communion with christians . but here we are to consider that as to be a christian supposeth mens owning the christian religion to be true , so the conveyance of that religion being to us now in those books we call the scriptures , there must be an acknowledgement of them as the indispensable rule of faith and manners , which is , that these books are the great charter of the christian society , according to which it must be governed . these things being premised as the foundation in general of christian society , we shall the better understand how far the obligation to communion in it doth extend . for which it must be considered , that the grounds of continuance in communion , must be suitable and proportionable to the first reason of entering into it . no man being obliged by vertue of his being in a society , to agree in any thing which tends to the apparent ruine of that society ; but he is obliged to the contrary , from the general grounds of his first admission into it . his primary obligation being to preserve the honour and interest of it , and to joyn in acts of it so far as they tend to it . now the main end of the christian society being the promotion of gods honour and the salvation of mens souls , the primary obligation of men entering into it , is the advancement of these ends , to joyn in all acts of it so far as they tend to these ends ; but if any thing come to be required directly repugnant to these ends , those men of whom such things are required , are bound not to communicate in those lesser societies where such things are imposed , but to preserve their communion with the catholick society of christians . but these general discourses seeming more obscure , it will be necessary for the better subserviency of them to our design , to deduce them into particulars . setting then aside the catholick society of christians , we come to enquire how far men are bound to communicate with any lesser society , how extensive so ever it may pretend its communion to be . . there is no society of christians of any one communion , but may impose some things to be believed or practised which may be repugnant to the general foundations of christian society . but if any society shall pretend a necessity of communion with her , because it is impossible this should be done by her : this priviledge must in reason be as evident as the common grounds of christianity are ; nay much more evident , because the belief of christianity it self , doth ( upon this pretence ) depend on the knowledge of such infallibility , and the indispensable obligation to communion depends upon it . . there being a possibility acknowledged , that particular churches may require unreasonable conditions of communion ; the obligation to communion cannot be absolute and indispensable ; but only so far as nothing is required destructive to the ends of christian society . otherwise men would be bound to destroy that which they believe , and to do the most unjust and unreasonable things . but the great difficulty lyes in knowing when such things are required , and who must be the judge in that case : to which i answer , . nothing can be more unreasonable , then that the society imposing such conditions of communion should be judge , whether those conditions be just and equitable or no. if the question only were in matters of peace , and conveniency , and order , the judgement of the society ought to over-rule the judgements of particular persons ; but in such cases where great bodies of christians , judge such things required to be unlawful conditions of communion , what justice or reason is there , that the party accused should sit judge in her own cause ? . where there is sufficient evidence from scripture , reason , and tradition , that such things which are imposed are unreasonable conditions of christian communion , the not communicating with that society which requires these things cannot incurr the guilt of schism . which necessarily follows from the precedent grounds , because none can be obliged to communion in such cases , and therefore the not communicating is no culpable separation . . by how much the societies are greater which are agreed in not communicating with a church imposing such conditions , by how much the power of those who rule those societies so agreeing is larger , by so much the more justifiable is the reformation of any church from these abuses , and the setling the bonds of christian communion without them . and on those grounds , viz. the church of romes imposing unlawful conditions of communion , it was necessary not to communicate with her ; and on the church of englands power to reform it self by the assistance of the supream power , it was lawful and justifiable not only to redress those abuses , but to settle the church upon its proper and true foundations . so that the church of romes imposing unlawful conditions of communion , is the reason why we do not communicate with her , and the church of englands power to govern and take care of her self , is the reason of our joyning together in the service of god upon the principles of our reformation . on these grounds i doubt not but to make it appear , how free the church of england is from all imputation of schism . these things being thus in general premised , we come to consider what those principles are on which you can found so high a charge as that of schism on the protestant churches . and having throughly considered your way of management of it , i find all that you have to say may be resolved into one of these three grounds . . that the roman church is the true and only catholick church . . that our churches could have no power or cause to divide in their communion from her . . that the authority of the roman church is so great , that upon no pretence soever could it be lawful to withdraw from communion with her . i confess , if you can make good any one of these three , you do something to the purpose ; but how little ground you have to charge us with schism from any of these principles will be the design of this part at large to manifest . i begin then with the first , which is the pretence of your churches being the catholick church : and here we again enter the lists to see how fairly you deal with your adversary . mr. fisher saith , that from the controversie of the resolution of faith the lady call●d them ; and desiring to hear , whether the bishop would grant the roman church to be the right church ? the bishop ( saith he ) granted that it was . to which his lordship answers ( after a just complaint of the abuse of disputations , by mens resolution to hold their own , though it be by unworthy means and disparagement of truth ) that the question was neither asked in that form , nor so answered . and that there is a great deal of difference ( especially as romanists handle the question of the church ) between the church and a church , and there is some between a true church and a right church . for the church may import the only true church , and perhaps the root and ground of the catholick . and this ( saith he ) i never did grant of the roman church , nor ever mean to do . but a church , can imply no more , then that it is a member of the whole . and this i never did ( saith he ) nor ever will deny , if it fall not absolutely away from christ. that it is a true church i granted also ; but not a right . for truth only imports the being ; right , perfection in conditions ; thus a thief is a true man , though not an upright man. so a corrupt church may be true , as a church is a company of men which profess the faith of christ and are baptized into his name ; but it is not therefore a right church , either in doctrine or manners . and this ( he saith ) is acknowledged by very learned protestants before him . this is the substance of his lordships answer , to which we must consider what you reply ; that about the terms of the ladie 's question you grant to be a verbal controversie ; and that whatever her words were , she was to be understood to demand this alone , viz. whether the roman were not the true , visible , infallible church out of which none can be saved ; for , herein ( you say ) she had from the beginning of the controversie desired satisfaction : and in this subject the roman church could not be any church at all , unless it were the church and a right church . the reason is , because st. peters successour , being the bishop of rome , and head of the whole church ( as you tell us you will prove anon ) that must needs be the church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if it be any church at all . and because the church can be but one , if it be a true church it must be the right church . but all this amounts only to a confident assertion of that which wants evident proof , which is , that the notion of a church relates to one as appointed the head of the whole church , without which it would be no church at all . which being a thing so hard to be understood , and therefore much harder to be proved , we must be content to wait your leasure till you shall think fit to prove it . when you therefore tell us afterwards , that the vniversal church supposes the acknowledgement of the same vicar of christ , and that those dioceses which agree in this acknowledgement as well as in the same faith , and communion of the same sacraments make up one and the same vniversal church ; when you further add , that the roman church is therefore stiled the church , because it is the seat of the vicar of christ and chief pastor of the church vniversal : i can only say to all these confident affirmations , that if you had sat in the chair your self , you could not have said more or proved less . it is not therefore in what sense words may be taken by you ( for who questions but you may abuse words ? ) but in what sense they ought to be taken . you may call the bishop of rome the vicar of christ , but before you can expect our submission to him , you must prove that he is so ; you may call the roman church , the church if you please , among your selves : but if by that you would perswade us there can be no church but that , you would do an office of kindness to offer a little at some small proof of it , i. e. as much as the cause , and your abilities will afford . and what if the ancients by a true church did mean an orthodox church ? i know but one of these things will follow from it , either that they took a true church for one morally and not metaphysically true ; or that if your church be not an orthodox church , it can be none at all . from hence you proceed to quarrel with his lordship for saying , that may be a true church which is not a right church ( which is all the thanks he hath for his kindness to you ) ; for ( say you ) how can you call that a true church in which men are not taught the way to heaven , but to eternal perdition ? which is as much as to ask , how you can call that man a true man that hath a leprosie upon him . but if you had considered , what his lordship had said , you would never have made such an objection . for his lordship doth not speak of the soundness of a church , but of the metaphysical entity of it . for he saith , it is true in that sense as ens and verum , being and true , are convertible one with another ; and every thing that hath a being is truly that being which it is in truth of substance . but ( say you ) , how can that be a true church which teacheth the way to eternal perdition by some false doctrine in matter of faith ? because it either teacheth something to be the word of god which is not ; or denies that to be his word which is : to err in this sort is certainly to commit high and mortal offence against the honour and veracity of god , and consequently the direct way to eternal perdition . an excellent discourse to prove that no man can be saved that is not infallible ! for if he be not infallible he may either teach something to be gods word which is not , or deny that to be his word that is ; either of which being a mortal offence against the honour and veracity of god , it is impossible any man that is not infallible should be saved : either then we must put off that humanity which exposes us to errour , or pronounce it impossible for any men to be saved , or else assert that there may be errour where gods veracity is not denyed . and if so , then not only men severally but a society of men may propound that for truth which is not , and yet not mortally offend against gods veracity ; supposing that society of men doth believe ( though falsly ) that this is therefore true because revealed by god. in which case that church may be a true church in one sense , though an erroneous church in another : true , as there is a possibility of salvation in it ; erroneous , as delivering that for truth which is not so . but here is a great deal of difference between a church acknowledging her self fallible , and that which doth not . for suppose a church propose something erroneous to be believed , if she doth not arrogate infallibility to her self in that proposal , but requires men to search and examine her doctrine by the word of god , the danger is nothing so great to the persons in her communion ; but when a church pretends to be infallible and teacheth errours , that church requiring those errours to be believed upon her authority , without particular examination of the doctrines proposed , is chargeable with a higher offence against the honour and veracity of god , and doth as much as in her lies ( in your expression ) teach men the way to eternal perdition . and of all sorts of blind guides it is most dangerous following such who pretend to be infallible in their blindness ; and it is a great miracle if such do not fall past recovery . the more therefore you aggravate the danger of errour , the worse still you make the condition of your church , where men are bound to believe the church infallible , when she proposeth the most dangerous errours . when you say , the whole church is not lyable to these inconveniencies of seducing or being seduced , if you mean ( as you speak ) of that which is truly the whole church of christ , you are to seek for an adversary in it ; if you mean the roman church you are either seduced or endeavour to seduce in saying so , when neither that is or can be the whole church , neither is it free from believing or proposing errours as will appear afterwards . you quarrel with his lordship again , for his similitude of a man that may be termed a man and not be honest , and say it comes not home to the case . but we must see , how well you have fitted it . instead of a man , you would have a saint put , and then ( you say ) the parallel would have held much better . but certainly then you mean only such saints as rome takes upon her to canonize ; for the question was of one that might be a man , and not be honest , will you say the same of your saint too ? if instead of saint , you had put his holiness in , there are some in the world would not have quarrelled with you for it . but you are an excellent man at paralleling cases : his lordship was speaking of the metaphysical truth of a church being consistent with moral corruptions , for which he instanced in a thiefs being truly a man , though not an honest man ; now you , to mend the matter , make choice of moral integrity , being consistent with metaphysical truth , which is of a saint , and a man. and , doth not this now come home to our case ? that which follows , to shew the incongruity of his lordships similitude would much more shew your wit , if it were capable of tolerable sense : for , you say , the word church in our present debate , implies not a simple or uncompounded term , as that of man , but is a compound of substance and accidents together . we had thought , man had been a compound of substance and accidents , as well as a church : or , did you mean some transubstantiated man , that had accidents without substance ? but as his lordship spake of a true real man , who yet might want moral integrity ; so he supposed there might be a true real church , as to the essential parts of it , which yet might be in other respects a corrupted and defiled church . but when you add , that the notion of a church implies integrity and perfection of conditions , still you betray your weak or wilful mistakes of a church morally for metaphysically true . if you will prove it impossible for a church to retain its being , that hath any errours in doctrine , or corruptions in practice , you will do something to the purpose : but when you have done it , see what you get by it ; for then we shall not so much as acknowledge your church to be metaphysically a true church . if his lordship therefore be so charitable , as to say , that because your church receives the scripture as a rule of faith : ( though but as a partial and imperfect rule ) and both the sacraments as instrumental causes and seals of grace ( though they add more , and misuse these ) it cannot but be a true church in essence : and you , on the other side , say , if it doth misuse the sacraments , and make the scripture an imperfect rule of faith , it would be unchurched ; let the reader judge , whether his lordships charity for , or your own testimony against your church , be built on better grounds . what follows concerning the holy catholick church in the apostles creed , the entire catholick faith in the athanasian creed , the churches being the spouse of christ , and a pure virgin , are all things as true in themselves , as your church is little concerned in them . the truly catholick church being quite another thing from that which goes under the name of the roman catholick church ; and this latter may prostitute her self to errour , while the other remains a pure virgin ; and it is only your saying , that yours only is the catholick church , which is in effect to say , that christ hath a harlot to his spouse , as you speak . to omit that which you call , a further skirmishing about the form of words , and whether it savoured more of prudence , and charity , or cunning in the jesuite , to instruct the lady what questions she should ask ; we come to that which is the main subject of this chapter , viz. whether the church be stiled catholick by its agreeing with rome , which ( you say ) was a received and known truth in the ancient church , but is so far from being in the least true , that his lordship deservedly calls it , a perfect jesuitism . for ( saith he ) in all the primitive times of the church , a man , or a family , or a national church were accounted right and orthodox , as they agreed with the catholick church , but the catholick was never then measured or judged by man , family , or nation . but now in the jesuits new school , the one , holy , catholick church , must be measured by that which is in the diocese or city of rome , or of them which agreed with it ; and not rome by the catholick . so upon the matter , belike the christian faith was committed to the custody of the roman , not of the catholick church ; and a man cannot agree with the catholick church of christ ( in this new doctrine of a. c. ) unless he agree with the church of rome ; but if he agree with that , all is safe , and he is as orthodox , as he need be . to which you seem to answer at first by some slight tergiversations , as , though this did not follow from a. c 's words , and that the lady did not trouble her self with such punctilio's as those of the agreement of the catholick church with rome , or romes agreeing with the catholick church , but at last you take heart , and affirm stoutly , that the church is stiled catholick from its agreement with rome , and that this is no jesuitism , but a received and known truth in the ancient church . in these terms then i fix my self , and this present dispute ; as containing the proper state of the controversie concerning the catholick church . and if you can make it appear that the church is stiled catholick by agreeing with rome , and that this was a received truth in the ancient church , then you may very plausibly charge us with schism in our separation from rome ; but if the contrary be made evident , by your own pretence we are freed from that charge . now in the handling this controversie , you first explain your terms , and then produce your testimonies . in the explication of your terms , you tell us , the word catholick may be used in three different acceptions , viz. either formally , causally , or by way of participation . formally , the vniversal church , i. e. the society of all true particular churches , united together in one body , in one communion , under one head , is called catholick . causally the church of rome is stiled catholick , because it hath an influence and force to cause vniversality in the whole body of the church catholick ; to which two things are necessary , multitude and vnity . the roman church therefore , which as a center of ecclesiastical communion , infuses this vnity , which is the form of vniversality , into the catholick church , and thereby causes in her vniversality , may be called catholick causally , though she be but a particular church . as he that commands a whole army is stiled general , though he be but a particular person . thirdly , every particular orthodox church is termed catholick participative , by way of participation , because they agree in , and participate of the doctrine and communion of the catholick church . for which ( you bring ) the instance of the church of smyrna writing to the catholick church of philomilion , &c. thus we see ( say you ) both how properly the roman church is called catholick , and how the catholick church it self takes causally the denomination of vniversal or catholick from the roman , considered as the chief particular church , infusing vnity to all the rest , as having dependence of her , and relation to her . thus i have recited your words , that we may fully understand your meaning ; the substance of which is couched in your last words , that the reason why any church was accounted catholick , was from its vnion with the church of rome . but if it appear that this sense of the catholick church is wholly a stranger to antiquity , that the catholick church was so call'd upon farr different accounts than those mentioned by you , if the church of rome had no other relation to the catholick church but as a member of it as other churches were , then all this discourse of yours comes to nothing , and that is it which i now undertake to prove . now the vnity of the catholick church lying in two things , the doctrine and the government of it , if in neither of these , it had any dependence of the church of rome , then certainly it could not be call'd catholick , causally from the church of rome . first , the church was called catholick from the vniversal spread of its doctrine , and the agreement of all particular churches in it . so irenaeus derives the vnity of the church spread abroad over the world from the vnity of that faith which was universally received , and from thence saith , that the church is but as one house , and having one soul and heart , and speaks as with one mouth . nothing can be more plain then that irenaeus makes the consent in doctrine to be the ground of vnity in the catholick church . and that he did not suppose this consent to arise from the church of rome appears from what he saith before , that this faith was received in the church so universally spread from the apostles and their disciples . which must be understood of that universal diffusion of it by the first preachers of it in the world , the continuance of which doctrine was the ground of the vnity in the catholick church . to the same purpose tertullian gives an account of the churches vnity , by the adhering to that doctrine which was first preached by the apostles , who having first delivered it in judea and planted churches there , went abroad and declared the same to other nations and setled churches in cities , from whence other churches have the same doctrine propagated to them , which are therefore call'd apostolical churches , as the off-spring of those which were founded by them . therefore so many and so great churches , are all that one prime apostolical church from whence all others come . and thus they are all prime and apostolical in regard of their vnity , as long as there is that communication of that title of brotherhood and common mark of peace and hospitality . wherein we see that which made churches in tertullians sense apostolical , is the embracing and continuing in that doctrine which was first delivered by the apostles ; and thus churches though remote from the apostolical times may have the denomination of apostolical from their consent in doctrine with those which were founded by them . but here is not the least intimation of any centre of ecclesiastical communion infusing unity into the catholick church , for this unity ariseth from that doctrine which was declared in and propagated by all the apostolical churches . so likewise theodoret speaks , that there is one church throughout the world , and therefore we pray , for the holy , one , catholick , and apostolick church , extended from one end of the earth to the other . which ( saith he ) is divided by cities , and towns , and villages , so that there are infinite and innumerable churches in the islands and continent , but all these are reduced to one being united in the agreement of the same true doctrine . so constantine in his epistle to the bishops who were absent from the council of nice , saith , that our saviour would have one catholick church , whose members though dispersed in many several places , yet are nourished by the same spirit which is the will of god. in all which and many other places which might be produced to the same purpose , we see a quite different account given of the unity of the catholick church , from that which you mention as the cause of it ; we find the church call'd catholick in regard of its large extent in the world ( as is apparent besides these testimonies , from the controversies between st. austin and the donatists ) and the unity of that catholick church not placed in the least respect to the church of rome , but in the consent in the apostolical doctrine in all those churches which concurred as members to make up this catholick church . so that the formal reason of any particular churches having the denomination of catholick , must come not from any communion with the church of rome ; but from the owning the catholick and apostolick faith , and joyning in communion with those churches which did own and acknowledge it . and therefore we find that the symbol of communion in the ancient communicatory letters never lay in the acknowledgement of christs vicar on earth , or communion with the church of rome , but in such things which were common to all apostolical churches . and therefore the church of rome could not be then accounted the center of ecclesiastical communion as you speak , after cardinal perron , from whom you have verbatim transcribed all your former discourse . this being therefore the utmost which that great witt of your church was able to plead in behalf of its being the catholick church , it deserves to be further considered . we come therefore to that kind of unity in the catholick church which depends on the government of it ; and this is that , which is pretended as the ground of the roman churches being the catholick church ; because though ( as cardinal perron says ) she be in her own being particular , yet she may be call'd catholick causally , as the center and beginning of ecclesiastical communion , infusing unity which is the form of universality into the catholick church . this therefore must be more narrowly searched into , to see if this were a known and received truth in the ancient church . which is so far from it , that we find no such causal influence from the church of rome then owned or asserted , but that the catholick church was a whole consisting of homogeneal parts , without any such subordination or dependence , as the contrary supposition implies . this is , by none more fully asserted , than by such who have with the greatest zeal and industry stood up for the unity of the catholick church . the first of whom is st. cyprian ; in whose time and writings there are very remarkable cases occurring to clear , upon what terms the unity of the catholick church did then stand . the first i begin with , is the case which arose in the church about the schism of novatianus , which will give us the fuller discovery of the grounds of unity in the catholick church , because the first rise of this schism was in rome it self . for novatus coming to rome in a discontent from africa , falls in with novatianus ( which two names the greek writers of the church commonly confound ) who being likewise under discontent at the election of cornelius to be bishop of rome , was ready to joyn with the other in fomenting a schism . for which , they made this their pretext , that cornelius had admitted such to communion who had lapsed in the persecution of decius which tended to the overthrow of the churches purity ? upon this , novatianus gets himself ordained , by three bishops , bishop of rome in opposition to cornelius : the fame of which schism being spread abroad , there was great making of parties on both sides . cyprian and the churches of africa after full inquiry into it declare for cornelius , so did dionysius of alexandria and the churches there ; but fabius of antioch with the churches of pontus and cilicia suspend , and rather encline to novatianus , for some time ; till they were after , more fully satisfied by dionysius of alexandria . now here is a case wherein the grounds of unity in the catholick church may be easily discerned , which it is plain from the proceedings in it , were ( as in all such emergent cases ) what should be determined and agreed on , by the consent of the catholick church : i. e. of those churches which all consented in the same catholick faith , and therefore made up one catholick church . now if the church of rome had been the center of ecclesiastical communion , and had infused catholick unity into the church at this time , what way or possibility had there been for restoring the churches unity ? neither was the appeal made to forraign churches meerly because rome it self was divided , and so the controversie could not be ended there , but it appears from the whole story of the proceedings , that this was looked on as the proper means for preserving the unity of the catholick church , at that time ; when the faith and communion of the apostolical churches were so fully known and distinguished from all others . these things will more fully appear from st. cyprians epistle to antonianus upon the occasion of this schism . who it seems at first adhered to cornelius and with him to the catholick church , ( not as though his joyning with cornelius was the cause of his being with the catholick church , but because in joyning with him , he joyned with the catholick church which declared for him ) ; but it seems afterwards by some letters of novatianus he began to stagger , and desires cyprian to give him an account what heresie novatianus broached , and what the reason was why cornelius communicated with the lapsed persons . as to which particulars he endeavours to satisfie him , and withall to give an account why they joyned with cornelius in opposition to novatianus , and what the practise of the church was , as to lapsed persons , and on what reasons it was built : wherein he tells him , that though some of their own bishops had formerly denyed communion to lapsed persons , yet they did not recede from the vnity of the catholick church , or communion of their fellowships , because by them they were admitted . for , saith he , the bond of concord remaining , and the communion of the catholick church continuing , every bishop orders and disposeth his own actions as one that must give an account of his design to god. doth st. cyprian here speak like one that believed the church of rome to be the center of ecclesiastical communion ? or , that the unity of the church lay in acknowledging the pope to be christs vicar , or in dependence on the church of rome ? when every bishop is left to himself and god , in all such things which he may do , and yet hold communion with the catholick church ? and therefore afterwards he tells us , that there is one church divided into many members throughout the world , and one episcopal office spread abroad , by the consenting multitude of many bishops . if this church be one in this sense , and the whole government of the church but as one bishoprick , as all the bishops unanimously consent in the management of it ; then here is not the least foundation for the catholick churches taking its denomination causally from the roman church , and much less for the bishops having dependence on her , or relation to her . since the care and government of the church by these words of cyprian appears to be equally committed to all the bishops of the catholick church . and from thence it was , that in this epistle we read that st. cyprian writ to the church of rome after the death of fabianus , to advise them what to do in the case of lapsed persons , which letters of his were sent through the world ; which , rigaltius well observes , did arise from that unity of ecclesiastical discipline , whereby cyprian , not doubting but the care of all churches was upon him , dispatched these letters to the clergy at rome ; from whence they were sent through the catholick church , as an evidence that there was but one episcopal office in the whole church , part of which was committed in full power to every bishop . thus we see a quite different account given of the unity of the catholick church than what you from cardinal perron would perswade us of . it being an easie matter for men of wit and parts ( especially such as that great cardinal was master of ) to coyn distinctions to make the most absurd things seem plausible ; but yet when they come to be examined , they are found to have no other bottom but the invention of that person who coined them . and that it is so as to this distinction of the formal , causal , and participative catholick church , will be further evident from another case which happened in st. cyprians time , which was this . felicissimus and fortunatus being cast out of communion by a synod of african bishops , when they saw they could do little good in africa , run over to rome , and bring letters to cornelius the bishop there , misrepresenting the whole business of their being ejected out of the church , on purpose to perswade cornelius to admit them into communion . who at first being unwilling to hearken to them , was at last by their threats and menaces brought to receive their letters . upon which st. cyprian writes an epistle to cornelius , wherein he tells him , that if the threats of such profligate persons should relax the churches discipline , all the power and strength of it would be soon taken away ; that the ground of all schism and heresie arises from disobedience to the bishop . certainly he doth not mean the bishop of rome , but every bishop in the catholick church ( for it was not cornelius but cyprian and the african bishops who were disobeyed ) upon which he falls upon the matter of their appeal to a forraign church , and after some fair commendations of the church of rome ( the meaning of which will be afterwards examined ) he very sharply condemns these appeals to forraign churches as unreasonable , unjust , and dishonourable to those bishops , whose sentence they appealed from . for , what cause ( saith he ) could these persons have of coming and declaring against their bishops ? for either they are pleased in what they have done , and continue in their wickedness ; or if they are displeased at it and recede from it , they know whither to return . for since it is decreed by us all , and it is a thing just and reasonable in it self , that every ones cause be heard where the fault was committed , and every pastour hath a part of the flock committed to him , which he is to rule and govern as being to give an account of it to god ; it is requisite that those whom we rule over , ought not to run about , and break the concord of bishops by their headdiness and subtilty ; but there to defend their cause , where they may have accusers and witnesses of their faults . vnless it be , that to a few desperate and profligate persons the authority of the bishops of africa seems less to them , who have already sate in judgement upon them , and solemnly condemned them lately for their crimes . can any thing be more express and punctual then this testimony of cyprian is , to overthrow that sense of the catholick church which you contend for ? how farr were cyprian and the african bishops from making rome the center of ecclesiastical communion , when they looked on appeals thither as very unjust and unreasonable ? what acknowledgement and dependence was there on the church of rome in those who looked on themselves as having a portion of christs flock committed to them , of which they were to give an account to god alone ? and i pray what excellent persons were those who undervalued the authority of the african bishops , and ran to rome ? st. cyprian tells us , they were pauci , desperati , perditi , and translate these with as much advantage to your cause as you can . so fatal hath it been to rome even from its first foundation to be a receptacle for such persons . and is not this a great credit to your cause that such persons who were ejected out of communion for their crimes at home , did make their resort to rome ? and the more pious and stout any bishops were , the more they defended their own priviledges in opposition to the encroachments of the roman sec. which was apt to take advantage from such renegado's as these were , by degrees to get more power into her hands , and lift up her head above her fellow-churches . but , lest you should think that st. cyprian only spake these things in an heat , out of his opposition to these persons and his desire to crush them , you shall see what his judgement was concerning the same things when he purposely discourseth of them . for in his book of the vnity of the church , he useth that expression which destroyes all your subordinate union in the church ; which is , episcopatus unus est , cujus à singulis in solidum pars tenetur . they who consider and understand the importance of that speech , will find nothing more destructive to your doctrine of the catholick church then that is . for when he makes the vniversal government of the church to be but one episcopal office , and that committed in the several parts of it with full power to particular bishops , can any be so senseless to imagine that he should ever think the government of the church in general to depend on any one particular church as chief over the rest ? and that the former words do really import such a full power in particular bishops , over that part of the flock which is committed to them , appears from the true importance of the phrase insolidum ; a phrase taken out of the civil law where great difference is made between an obligation in partem and in solidum , and so proportionable between a tenure in partem and in solidum : those things were held in solidum which were held in full right and power without payments and acknowledgements . but where the usus-fructus belonged to another , it was not held in solidum . so that when st. cyprian saith , that every part belonging to each bishop was held in solidum , he therein imports that full right and power which every bishop hath over his charge ; and in this speech he compares the government of the church to an estate held by several freeholders , in which every one hath a full right to that share which belongs to him . whereas according to your principles the government of the church is like a mannor or lordship , in which the several inhabitants hold at the best but by copy from the lord ; and you would fain have it at the will of your lord too . but thus farr we see st. cyprian was from your modern notion of the catholick church , that he looks on the vnity of it as depending on the consent of the catholick bishops and churches under their full power , and not deriving that vnity from any particular church as the head and fountain of it . and therefore in the former schism at rome about cornelius and novatianus , st. cyprian imployed two of his colleagues thither , caldonius and fortunatus , that not only by the letters they carried , but by their presence and counsel they should do their utmost endeavour to bring the members of that divided body to the unity of the catholick church . which is certainly a very different thing from the catholick churche's deriving its vnity from the particular church of rome . many other instances of a like nature might be produced out of the reports of st. cyprians times , but these are sufficient to evidence how far the vnity of the catholick church was then , from depending on the church of rome . but , lest we should seem to insist only on st. cyprians testimony , it were easie to multiply examples in this kind ; which i shall but touch at some of , and proceed . if the church of rome then had been looked on as the center of ecclesiastical communion , is it possible to conceive , that the excommunications of the church of rome should be slighted as they were by polycrates , for which st. hierome commends him , as a man of courage ? that , stephen should be opposed as he was by cyprian and firmilian in a way so reflecting on the authority of the roman church ? that appeals to rome should be so severely prohibited by the african bishops ? that causes should be determined by so many canons to be heard in their proper dioceses ? that , when the right of appeals was challenged by the bishops of rome , it was wholly upon the account of the imaginary nicene canons ? that , when julius undertook by his sole power to absolve athanasius , the oriental bishops opposed it as irregular on that account , at the council at antioch ? that , when afterwards , paulus , marcellus , and lucius repaired to rome to julius , and he seeks to restore them , the eastern bishops wonder at his offering to restore them who were excommunicated by themselves ? and that as when novatus was excommunicated at rome they opposed it not , so neither ought he to oppose their proceedings against these persons . what account can be given of these passages , if the vnity of the catholick church had depended on the particular church of rome ? besides , while the church of rome continued regular , we find she looked on her self as much obliged to observe the excommunications made by other churches , as others were to observe hers . as in the case of marcion , who being excommunicated by his father the bishop of sinope in pontus , and by no means prevailing with his father for his admission into the church again ; resorts to rome and with great earnestness begs admission there , where he received this answer ; that they could not do it without the command of his father ; for there is one faith and one consent , and we cannot contradict our worthy brother , your father . this shews the vnity of the catholick church to proceed upon other grounds than the causal influence of the church of rome , when the consent of the church did oblige the church of rome , not to repeal the excommunication of a particular bishop . upon which ground it was , that synesius proceeded so high in the letters of excommunication against andronicus ; that he forbids all the churches upon earth to receive him into their communion . and withall adds , that if any should contemn his church because it was of a little city , and should receive those who were condemned by it , as though it were not necessary to obey so poor a church ; he lets them know that they make a schism in that church which christ would have to be one . we see here , on what equal terms the communion of the catholick church then stood : when so small a church as that of ptolemais could so farr oblige by her act the catholick church that they should be guilty of schism who admitted them to communion whom she had cast out of it . if synesius had believed the church of rome to have been the center of ecclesiastical communion , had it not been good manners , nay duty in him to have asked first the pleasure of the church of rome in this case , before he had passed so full and definitive a sentence as this was ? but the wise and great men of those ages were utterly strangers to these rare distinctions of a causal , formal , and participative catholick church . it is true indeed they did then speak honourably of the church of rome in their age as a principal member of the catholick church , and having advantages above other churches by its being fixed in the seat of the empire , on which account her communion was much desired by other persons . but still we find the persons most apt to extoll her authority were such as were most obnoxious , who not being able to hold any reputation in their own churches , where their crimes and scandals were sufficiently known , ran presently to rome , which was ready still to take their part , thereby to inhance her power : as is most evident in the many disputes which arise upon such accounts between the roman and african bishops . but these things we shall have occasion to discuss more particularly afterwards . at the present it may be sufficient by these few ( of very many examples which might be produced ) to have made it appear , that it was farr from being a known and received truth in the ancient church , that the church of rome was the center of ecclesiastical communion , or that the church was call'd catholick from the union with her and dependence upon her . but we must now consider what strenuous proofs you produce for so confident an affirmation : your instances therefore being the most pregnant to your purpose which you could find in antiquity must be particularly examined : your first is of st. ambrose , relating that his brother satyrus going on shore in a certain city of sardinia ( where he desired to be baptized ) demanded of the bishop of that city whether he consented with the catholick bishops , that is ( saith he ) with the roman church . these words i grant to be in st. ambrose , but whosoever throughly considers them will find how little they make for your purpose . for which it will be sufficient to look on the following words , which tell us , that at that time there was a schism in the church , and sardinia was the chief seat of it . for lucifer caralitanus had newly separated himself from the church , and had left societies there which joyned in his schism . for caralis was the metropolis of sardinia , and it appears by st. hierome , that the luciferians confined the church only to sardinia , which is the cause of that expression of his ; that christ did not come meerly for the sake of the sardinians . so that those luciferians were much like the donatists , confining the church only to their own number . now there being such a schism at that time in sardinia , what did satyrus any more then enquire whether the bishop of the place he resorted to was guilty of this schism or no ? but ( say you ) he made that the tryal whether he was a catholick or no , by asking whether he agreed with the church of rome . to which i answer , that there was very great reason for his particular instancing in the church of rome . . because satyrus was originally of the church of rome himself ; for paulinus in the life of s. ambrose ( satyrus his brother ) speaking of him after his consecration to be bishop , say's , ad urbem romam hoc est ad natale solum perrexit , he went to rome , i. e. to the place of his birth ; now satyrus being originally a roman , what wonder is it that he should particularly enquire of the roman church ? as suppose one of the gallican church of arles or vienna should have been cast upon shore in another island belonging to france at the same time , and understanding there was a schism in the place , should particularly enquire whether they agreed with the catholick bishops , i. e. with the church of arles or vienna , could you hence inferr that either of these were the center of ecclesiastical communion , and if not from hence , how can you from the other ? or suppose , in the time of the donatists schism in africk , a stranger coming accidentally thither and desiring communion with the christians of that city he was in , should enquire of the bishop of the city , whether he communicated with the catholick bishops , i. e. with the church of hippo or carthage . could you hence inferr that hippo was causally the catholick church , and if not , with what reason can you do it from so parallel a case ? . because sardinia did belong to the metropolitan province of the church of rome ; it being one of the suburbicarian provinces under the jurisdiction of the roman lieutenant , and consequently one of the suburbicarian churches appertaining to the metropolitan power of the bishop of rome : and therefore it was but reason to ask whether the churches in sardinia did agree with their mother church or no. but all this is very farr from implying that the vnity of the catholick church comes from the particular church of rome : on this account , because at that time when the vnity of the catholick church was preserved by that continual correspondence between the parts of it by the formed letters and otherwise , who ever was known to have communion with any one particular church ( which communicated with the rest ) had thereby communion with the catholick church . so that on that account the question might as well have been asked of the churches of milan , agobio , or any other in italy as of the church of rome . for whosoever communicated with any of them did communicate with the catholick church , as well as those who did communicate with the church of rome . so that your first instance will prove no more the church of rome to be the fountain and center of ecclesiastical communion , then any other particular church . your second is , from st. hieromes saying , that the church of alexandria made it her glory to participate of the roman faith. but doth it hence follow that the church of alexandria was therefore catholick , because she participated of the faith of the roman church considered as a particular church ? for , any one who reads that epistle will easily see , that st. hierome there speaks of the roman faith , not as it proceeds from the roman church , but as it was received by it ; and that he doth not understand it of the then present roman faith , any further then it agreed with that faith which the apostle commended in them . so that the utmost which can be extracted out of this testimony , is , that it was the glory of the church of alexandria to hold the same faith which the primitive roman church did , for which the apostle commended it . which is apparent by the design of the whole epistle , which is to encourage theophilus the patriarch of alexandria to suppress the nefarions heresie ( as he calls it ) of the origenists ; for , it seems , theophilus then dealt more mildly with them , which hierome was displeased at . and therefore tells him , that although he took some care by the discipline of the church to reduce them , yet that was not enough , and thence brings in these words ; but withall know , that nothing is more our design then to preserve the rights of christ , and not to transgress the bounds of our fathers , and alwayes to remember the roman faith , commended by the mouth of the apostle , which it is the glory of the church of alexandria that she is a partaker of . if you had dealt so fairly as to have cited st. hieromes words at large , any one might easily see how remote they were from your purpose ; it being manifest by them , that st. hieromes only design was ; to perswade theophilus to assert the ancient faith against the incroachments of modern heresies ; and , to incourage him to it , mentions that commendation which was given to the ancient faith by the apostle writing to the romans upon their receiving it ; and therefore since the same faith was in the church of alexandria which the romans were commended for receiving of , theophilus ought to be a vigorous assertor of it , against the oppositions of hereticks . but how from hence we should inferr that the church of rome was the fountain of faith as well as center of communion , is a thing we are yet to seek for , till you further direct us . yet , it may be , the strength of it lyes in this , that the roman faith was commended by the apostle . and was not the faith of other churches where it was pure , commended as well as that ? and although the fathers in their complemental addresses to the church of rome were pleased often to mention this , that the roman faith was praised by the apostle ; yet , as rigaltius well observes , that the latin fathers took those words of the apostle , as though their faith were more pure and sincere then in other places ; whereas the apostle only saith , that he gave thanks to god that there was such a fame abroad , that the romans who swayed the world , had embraced the christian faith. which by reason of the dignity of the city which was head of the world , and empress of nations , did conduce much to the propagation of the christian faith. for that there was no peculiar excellency in the roman faith above the faith of other churches , appears from the scope of this epistle which was to instruct and settle them in the right faith and from the testimonies of the author of the commentaries under st. ambrose's name , and st. hierome himself . the former tells us , the reason why st. paul commended their faith , was , because though they saw no miracles yet they believed , though not so purely as they ought to have done . and afterwards saith , that st. paul commends their faith although it were not exact according to rule , yet since by that they came to worship god in christ he rejoyceth in it , knowing they might increase more in it . and st. hierome elsewhere speaking without design or interest , saith , not that the romans have any other kind of faith then what all other churches have ; but that there was greater devotion and simplicity in believing . and withall adds , that the very same faults which the apostle condemned them for then , did continue still among them , the greatest of which was pride . and if this present controversie do not make good st. hieromes observation till this time , we are strangely mistaken : for what greater pride can there be , than for any particular church to arrogate the title of catholick to her self , and to make all others no farther catholick then they participate of her faith and communion ? your next testimony is that of john , the patriarch of constantinople , who did in his epistle to hormisda , judge those to be severed from the communion of the catholick church , who did not consent in all things with the see apostolick : but the main force of your testimonies lyes in a presumption that men will never take the pains to examine them . we must therefore consider the occasion and manner of the writing this epistle ; for those words you cite , are not the words of the patriarch himself , but of the form of subscription required by hormisda in order to an vnion of the eastern and western churches ; which had been then a long time in a schism . for after that acacius stood up so resolutely in defence of the rights of his see at constantinople , the roman bishops ( who made it then their design to infringe the liberties of other churches the better to inhance their own ) would by no means admit of any reconciliation unless the names of acacius , and those who defended him in that see being his successours , as phravita , euphemius , macedonius , &c. were expunged out of the diptychs of the church ; which being so unjust and unreasonable a demand , for a long time the patriarchs of constantinople would by no means assent to it . but after the death of the emperour anastasius , justin succeeds in the throne , one who made it his business to have this breach made up ; in order to which he writes to hormisda , and earnestly perswades him to a reconciliation ; and so likewise doth the patriarch john. but it hath been the common practise of the bishops of that church , to be therein unlike the unjust judge , that they will not be wrought on by importunities ; but have been the more implacable , the more they have been sought to : as it appeared in this present case . for this soure and inflexible pope would not yield to any terms of vnion , but upon conditions of his own prescribing , which were , the expunging of acacius , and subscribing that form which he sent to them . which when the emperour and patriarch saw , though they were sufficiently displeased at it , yet out of their greedy desire of peace , they were contented rather to swallow these hard conditions than suffer the schism to remain still . now it is in this form of subscription that these words are contained , wherein they promise , not to recite the names of those in the sacred mysteries , who are severed from the communion of the catholick church , i. e. who consent not in all things with the see apostolick . but lest these words being thus inserted by the pope himself , should be interpreted to the disadvantage of other churches , and particularly that of constantinople ; the patriarch makes a preface to that subscription by way of protestation ; wherein after declaring the reception of the popes letters , and congratulating the hopes of vnion , he manifests his own desire of peace , and his willingness to refuse the communion of all hereticks . for , saith he , i look on those most holy churches of your elder and our new rome , as both making but one church . and after , declaring his assent to the decrees of the four general councils , he adds , that those who opposed them he judged fallen off , à sanct â dei generali & apostolicâ ecclesiâ , from the holy catholick and apostolick church . now when the patriarch was thus careful to explain himself , so as to assert that the church of rome , and that of constantinople , made but one church , when he adds what he means by the catholick church , viz. the truely general and apostolical church ; inferr as much from hormisda's words as you will , i am sure you can do little to your purpose from the patriarchs , taking them in the sense he explains himself in , by this protestation . so that the meaning of them is only this , that as he judged the church of rome a member of the catholick church ( whose vnity required , that those who were out of communion in one church should be so with the rest ) so he consented to acknowledge them justly excommunicated whom the church of rome would have to be so . so that hence nothing ariseth to your purpose , more then will equally advance the authority of any other particular church ; whose excommunications did oblige the whole church , as we have seen already in the case of sinope and ptolemais . you proceed to another testimony of st. austin addressing himself to the donatists , telling them , that the succession of the roman bishops is the rock which the proud gates of hell overcome not , thereby insinuating , that the very succession of those bishops is in some true sense the catholick church . but from whence doth it appear that the succession of the roman bishops is the rock here spoken of ? for st. austin was there arguing against the donatists and shewing them the danger of being separated from the unity of the catholick church ; that if they were cut off from the vine , they would wither and be in danger to be cast into the fire ; and therefore exhorts them , to come and be planted into the vine , it being a grief to them to see them cut off . now in order to this , he brings in the former words to acquaint them with the way , whereby they might better understand the catholick church , which could not in reason be confined to their own age , but must be derived from the apostles . so that his counsel is of the same nature with that of tertullian and irenaeus , who put men upon a diligent search into the successions of the apostolical churches . but now when by this search they have found out the catholick church , he tells them , that is the rock which the proud gates of hell cannot overcome . for so elsewhere st. austin calls the catholick church a rock , as he calls it likewise a house , and a city , in several places of these disputations against the donatists . as here before he calls it the vine , from whence all who are cut off wither and dye : but what is all this to the particular church of rome ; which none of the disputes with the donatists at all concerned ? as is fully manifest from the whole management of that controversie ; in which though he was so much put upon shewing what and where the catholick church was , yet he never once expressed any such thing , as that the church was called catholick from any relation to the church of rome , but still mentions it as a particular church , which with other churches made up one catholick church . so in his commentaries on the . psalm : behold rome , saith he , behold carthage , behold several other cities ; these are kings daughters and have delighted the king in his honour , but they all make up but one queen . how incongruous had this expression been , had st. austin believed the roman church to be so much above all others , that the ground why any others were called catholick , was from their union with her ; and therefore he must according to your principles have saluted the church of rome as the queen of all the rest , and made other particular churches but as her daughters and hand-maids . but st. austin knew of no such difference , but looked on all particular churches , whether at rome , carthage , or elsewhere , as making up but one catholick church . and to the same purpose he frequently speaks , when he sayes , that the church is call'd one in regard of her vnity , and many in regard from the several societies of christians abroad in the world ; when he calls the several churches , members of that one church which is spread all over the world , without setting any note of discrimination upon one above all the rest ; when he reckons the roman , corinthian , galatian , ephesian churches together , and that all these and the churches propagated from them , do conspire in one vniversal church . but the places are so many to this purpose in him , that it would look too much like ostentation to offer to prove a matter so evident to all that read any thing in him . and is it possible then for you to think that st. austin made the succession of bishops at rome in any sense the catholick church ? you might as well say , that he made the church spread all over the world a particular church , as that he made any particular church whether at rome or elsewhere ( for he makes no difference ) to be in any sense the vniversal church . but that which you seem to lay the greatest force on , is the testimony of optatus milevitanus , who , say you , after he had said that st. peter was head of all the apostles ; and that he would have been a schismatick , who should have erected another chair against that singular one of st. peter , as also that in that chair of st. peter being but one , vnity was to be kept by all ; he adds that with syricius then pope he himself was united in communion , with whom the whole world ( saith he , meaning the whole catholick church ) agrees by communicatory letters in one society of communion ; see here ( say you ) how clearly he makes the union with the bishop of rome the measure of the catholick church ; which the bishop calls a jesuitism , and further proves himself to be in the catholick church , because he was in communion with the see of st. peter . for our better understanding the meaning of these words of optatus , we must consider the state of the controversie between optatus and parmenianus , by which it will appear , how very little these words of his make to your purpose . the main question between the catholicks and the donatists was , about the catholick church , to whom it was that title did belong . the difficulty seemed the greater , because there was no difference between them in any matter of faith , or in the substance of the sacraments , and therefore they were fain to find out other means to decide this controversie , than by either of those two . for which the catholicks made choice of these two arguments vniversality and succession , the former as agreeing with that large spread of the church which was prophesied to be in the times of the gospel , whereas the donatists confined the church to a corner in africa : the latter in regard of the necessity of deriving themselves from the apostolical churches . now the donatists denying any but themselves to be the catholick church , the proof lay on their adversaries part , who upon all occasions offer to make it good , that the church from which the donatists separated themselves , was the only true and catholick church . accordingly optatus having in the first book discussed the matters of fact about the rise of the schism , the ordinations of cecilian and majorinus , and the proceedings used for the ending the schism , in this second book he enters on the controversie of the church which parmenianus would have to be only among themselves ; against which he urgeth first , that then certainly the church could not be called catholick , because it was so called from its large comprehension and universal spread . had optatus believed , the ground of the churches being catholick had been its union with the church of rome , he would never have given that account of its being called so , which here he doth . after which he produceth many places of scripture to prove the large extent of the church , and concludes , that to be the catholick church which was diffused over all the world , than which nothing can be more contrary to your pretensions , who limit and confine the catholick church to your own party as the donatists did . and if those arguments then used against the donatists had any force against them , they have still as much against you , who exclude so great and considerable churches from being members of the catholick church because not of your communion . from hence optatus proceeds to examine , which had the better title to be the catholick church on the account of succession ; and parmenianus reckoning the cathedra in the first of the dotes ecclesiae , optatus begins with that by which is understood the lawful derivation of power for governing the church , so albaspinaeus , ( as well as others ) understands it . now the controversie was , where this cathedra was . optatus proves , there can be no lawful power but what is derived from the apostles , and therefore where the succession is plain and uninterrupted , there and no where else can that cathedra be . which episcopal chair being first placed at rome by st. peter , in which he as chief of the apostles sate , from whence he had his name cephas ; in which one chair vnity should be kept by all ; lest the other apostles should set up others against it ; so that he must be a schismatick and offender , who should place another chair against that . therefore in this one chair st. peter sate first , to whom succeeded linus , to him clemens and so on to syricius who joyns with us , with whom the whole world communicates by the entercourse of formed letters . do you now give an account of your chair , who challenge to your selves the name of the holy church . to pass by that ridiculous account of the name cephas , which baldwin supposes to be inserted into the text from some ignorant gloss made in the margin , the main thing to be considered , is the scope and design of these words ; in which he doth two things , . he shews the evident succession of the catholick bishops from st. peter in the church of rome , which he doth by a distinct and particular enumeration of them . . from thence shews the unlawfulness of setting up another chair in opposition to that , i. e. pretending to another right of government then what was conveyed down from the apostles ; or setting up another chair in opposition to that of st. peter at rome , i. e. that succession of bishops which was derived from him . now , saith he , god providing for the unity of the church , intended there should be but one chair in a place , i. e. that the several apostles should not in the same place set up a distinct cathedra or succession of church-governours , and therefore though st. paul as well as st. peter were instrumental in the settling the church of rome , yet , that the churches vnity might be preserved , there were not two distinct series of bishops , the one deriving from st. peter and the other from st. paul. so that optatus his saying is much of the same nature with that of cyprian in the case of the schism about cornelius and novatianus , who urgeth that most , that there ought to be but one bishop in one church , now the bishop and his cathedra are correlates to each other . optatus therefore saying that there was but one cathedra at rome , puts the donatist's upon this issue , that if they could not deduce their succession from st. peter at rome , they could have no pretence to the cathedra there . and therefore challengeth them to deduce the succession of their bishops there , as at large appears in his following discourse . which could be no higher then of macrobius from encolpius , encolpius from bonifacius ballitanus , as he from victor garbiensis , who was sent over on purpose from the donatists in africk to make a faction and a party at rome , among the african inhabitants there . now this being the utmost succession , they could pretend to , and that being in opposition to that succession which was derived from st. peter , nothing could be more plain then that at rome ( about which the contest was ) the cathedra could not belong to the donatists but their adversaries ; and therefore that being by parmenianus acknowledged one of the dowries of the catholick church , the title of that could not belong to the donatists but their opposers . this therefore doth not at all concern romes being causally the catholick church , but is only produced as a particular church for a known instance whereby to decide this particular controversie of succession . for otherwise the argument would have held as well for any other apostolical church where the succession was clear : and therefore afterwards he makes the communion with the seven churches as plain an argument of communion with the catholick , as he doth here of the church of rome . you may therefore every jot as well make the seven churches of asia , to be causally the catholick church , as the church of rome . and to the same purpose he instanceth in the corinthian , thessalonian , galatian churches , as he doth in that of rome , or the seven churches . we see then , optatus his design was to shew that their church from which the donatists separated , was the true catholick church , which he proves from their communion with all the apostolical churches , which had a clear and distinct succession from the apostles their planters . and because of the vicinity and fame of rome , and the easier knowing the succession there , he instanceth in that in the first place , and then proceeds to the rest of them . but withall , to shew the vnity of all these apostolical churches , when he had mentioned siricius as the present bishop of rome , he adds , that all the world agreed with him in the entercourse of the formed letters ; not thereby intimating any supremacy of that church above others , but to shew that that succession he instanceth in at rome , was of the catholick church , because the whole christian world , did agree in communion with him that was the bishop there . and when he speaks of one chair , it is plain , he means it of the particular church of rome , because every apostolical church had an apostolical chair belonging to it . so tertullian expresly , that in all the apostolical churches there were their chairs still remaining . and eusebius particularly mentions the apostolical throne or chair at hierusalem , as others do that of mark at alexandria , and of the rest elsewhere . nothing then can possibly be inferred from these words of optatus concerning the church of rome , but what would equally hold for any other apostolical church , and how much that is , let the reader judge : and how much soever it be , it will be very little for your advantage , who pretend to something peculiar to the church of rome above all other churches . from optatus you proceed , or rather return to s. hierom , who , ( say you ) professes the church is built upon s. peter 's see , and that whoever eats the lamb , that is , pretends to believe in christ , and partakes of the sacraments out of that house , that is , out of the communion of that church , is prophane , and an alien ; yea , that he belongs to antichrist , and not to christ , whoever consents not with the successor of s. peter . this testimony sounds big and high at first , and i shall not impute these expressions either to s. hierome's heat , or his flattery , although it looks the more suspicious , because at that time he had so great a pique against the eastern bishops , and that these words are contained in a complemental address to damasus . but , setting aside what advantages might be gained on that account , to weaken the force of this testimony , if we consider the occasion or nature of these expressions , we shall find that they reach not the purpose you design them for . we must therefore consider , that at the time of the writing this epistle , s. hierom seems to be in a great perplexity what to do in that division which was then in the church of antioch , concerning paulinus , vitalis , and miletius ; but besides this schism , it seems s. hierom suspected some remainders of arrianism to be still among them ; from their demanding of him , whether he acknowledged three distinct hypostases in the trinity . now s. hierom by hypostasis understands the essence , as many of the greek fathers did ; and thence the sardian council defined , that there was but one hypostasis of the father , son , and spirit ; and therefore he suspects , that when they require of him the acknowledgement of three hypostases , they might design to entrap him , and unawares betray him into arrianism . and therefore argues stifly in the remainder of that epistle , that hypostasis properly signifies essence , and nothing else ; and from thence urgeth the inconvenience of admitting the terms of three hypostases . now s. hierom being thus set upon by these eastern bishops , he keeps off from communion with them , and adviseth with the aegyptian confessors , and follows them at present ; but having received his baptism in the church of rome , and being looked on as a roman where he was , he thought it necessary to address himself to pope damasus , to know what he should do in this case . and the rather , because if s. hierom had consented with them , they would have looked on it as an evidence of the agreement of the roman church with them . therefore he so earnestly and importunately writes to damasus concerning it , as being originally part of his charge , having been baptized in that church . but ( say you ) whatever the occasion of the words were , is it not plain , that he makes the church to be built on s. peter's see , and that whosoever is out of the communion of that church , is an alien , and belongs to antichrist ? to that therefore i answer , . that he doth not say , that the catholick church is built on the particular church of rome : for it is not , super hanc petram , as referring to the cathedra immediately preceding ; but , super illam , and therefore it is not improbably supposed by some , that the rock here referrs to christ. and , although erasmus doth imagine , that some particular priviledge and dignity did belong to rome above other churches from this place ( which is not the thing we contend about ) yet withall he sayes , that by the rock we must not understand rome ; for that may degenerate , but we must understand that faith which peter professed . and it is a much easier matter for marianus victorius , to tell him , he lyes , as he doth here in plain terms , than to be able to confute what he saith . and that the rather , because he begins his discourse in that manner , ego nullum primum nisi christum sequens , whereby he attributes the supreme power , and infallible judgement in the church only to christ. for , as for your learned correction of praemium for primum , though you follow cardinal perron in it , yet it is without any probability at all , it being contrary to all the mss. used by erasmus , victorius , gravius , possevin , and others ; and hath no authority to vouch it , but only gratian , who is condemned by your own writers , for a falsifier and corrupter of authours . . i answer , when s. hierom pronounces those aliens and prophane , who are out of the communion of the church ; either it belongs not to the particular church of rome , or , if it doth , it makes not much for your purpose . . there is no certainty that he there speaks of the particular church of rome , but that he rather speaks of the true vniversal church ; for it is plain , he speaks of that church which is built upon the rock , now by your own confession , that cannot be the church of rome , for that you suppose to be the rock , it self , viz. the see of peter , and therefore the church built upon it , must be the vniversal church . and that this must be his meaning , appears from his plain words , for , he saith , vpon that rock the church is built , and whosoever eats the lamb without this house , is prophane ; — he cannot certainly mean , whosoever eats without the rock , but without the house built upon it ; so that the house in the latter clause must needs be the same with that which was built on the rock in the former . either therefore you must deny the see of peter to be the rock , or you must of necessity assert the house built upon it to be the vniversal church , and not the particular one of rome ; and consequently the danger lyes not upon mens not being in communion with the roman , but with the truly catholick church . and how from hence you will inferr , that they are prophane who are out of the roman church ; it would be worth our while to understand . . suppose i should grant , that s. hierom did mean the particular church of rome , yet i am not satisfied , that this comes home to your purpose , unless you could prove , that s. hierom spake of what was necessarily and unalterably to be in the church of rome , and not meerly of what was in that time , when he spake these words . but that is your perpetual paralogism in the citations of the fathers , in praise of the church of rome , what they spake , and it may be deservedly of the church of their own time ( although sometimes their rhetorick swell'd too high in their encomiasticks ) that you will needs have to be understood of the same church at all times , and in our present age . as though it were not possible for a church to be eminent for purity of doctrine in one age , and to decline as much from it in another . but i need give no other instance in this case , than s. hierom himself , for if we believe s. hierom in his catalogue , the two immediate predecessors of damasus , in the see of rome , liberius , and felix were tainted with heresie ; and that very heresie , viz. arrianism , which s. hierom writes to damasus about now . i pray , tell us then , whether if s. hierom had lived in liberius his time , would he have writ to him after the same rate he now writes to damasus ; if he had been of the same mind then , he would have been so farr from scrupling the three hypostases , that he must have subscribed the arrian confession , as s. hierom tells us , liberius did , through the instigation of fortunatianus . and therefore to let us see , on what account he was now so liberal in his commendations of the church of rome , he begins this epistle with the praise of her present orthodoxness in the catholick faith , and that amongst all the divisions and breaches of the eastern churches they preserved the faith of their fore-fathers entire . that now the sun of righteousness rises in the west ; but that lucifer , who fell , now reigns in the east ; with many expressions to the same purpose . which supposition being granted true at that time , that which follows inferrs very little to your purpose , unless you can prove , that what was so then , must necessarily continue so in all ages . if the east was then corrupted , and the west only sound , what praises belonged to the catholick church in general , did of right devolve to that part which remained sound in the opinion of those persons who judged so . you would needs therefore from hence have your church accounted catholick now , by the same argument that tully said ( of the roman lady , who still affirmed , she was but thirty years of age ) that he believed it , for he had heard her say so twenty years before ; so must we believe your church sound and catholick ▪ because it was said so of her so many hundred years since ; as though no infirmities or wrinkles could have come upon her ever since . prove your church to be as sound and orthodox , as pure and holy now , as she was in the primitive fathers time , and we will not grudge her the highest of those commendations which were given her by them . but , without doing this , your testimonies come to nothing . the same answer will serve the remaining testimonies of eulalius , and the emperour gratian , who only spake of the communion of the church of rome , as it was then : that of fulgentius stiling the roman church , the top of the world , only imports the eminency of it , in regard of the power of that city it was in , and so is wide enough from your purpose . thus we have considered all that you have produced out of antiquity , to prove that the church is called catholick , with a particular relation to , and dependence of the church of rome ; and can find nothing at all belonging to her , as the center of catholicism , but that those things which are said of her , and communion with her , in relation to being called catholick , might as well have agreed with any other apostolical church remaining sound in the catholick faith. hence it appears , that what his lordship is pleased to term , a perfect jesuitism , viz. the measuring the catholick church , by that of rome , is really nothing else , and that the perfect mistake belongs to you , who assert , that it was a received and known truth in the ancient church . your vindication of the propriety of your churches being called the roman catholick church , from the roman empire , and the jewish church would then signifie something , when you have proved that the pope hath as much the government of the church , as the roman-emperour had of all the provinces within the confines of the empire , or that we are all bound as much to resort to rome , as the jews were to jerusalem for the solemn worship of god. in the mean time the absurdity is never the less for being vulgar , in calling yours , the roman catholick church . and yet , as though you had been only demonstrating these things , you tell us very magisterially , the truth is , in all doubts concerning matter of doctrine , recourse is to be had to s. peter 's successor , who ( at least with a general council ) can infallibly resolve all difficulties . an excellent way of proving , to say , the truth is ! might not i as well say , the truth is , the pope neither in council , nor out of it hath any infallibility at all ? and would not this be full as good an answer as yours is an argument ? but the very truth is , you had rather have these things believed , than go about to prove them ; least the weakness of the arguments should lay too much open your fond pretence of infallibility . before you prove , that the pope can carry his infallibility out of rome with him , shew us that he hath it there . i grant s. peter had been infallible , though he had never been at rome ; and it is far from being clear , that the pope is at all the more infallible for his being there . how far you have been from proving , that the faith of every particular church is to be examined and proved to be catholick by its conformity to the faith of the roman church , may abundantly appear from the preceding discourse . those questions , which you say , make nothing to your purpose concerning the popes transferring his chair at rome , and the roman clergies deserting him and the true faith : i shall so far believe you in , as to ease my self of the trouble of considering them any further than hath been done already in the very entrance into this conference . and here , you tell us , you now come to perform your promise , viz. to examine more fully his lordships pretended solutions ( as you call them ) of bellarmine 's authorities in behalf of the infallibility of the church of rome . but for all your boasting at first , what great things you would do , you seem a little fearful of engaging too far , and therefore are resolved only to maintain them in general , as they make for the infallible authority of the church , or of the pope defining articles of faith in a general council . but , as far as you dare go , i shall attend your motions , and doubt not to make it evident , that none of these authorities have any reference to that sense , which you only offer to maintain them in , and that though they had , yet no such thing as infallibility can be proved out of them . the first authority is out of s. cyprian's letter to cornelius bishop of rome , whose words i am contented should be recited as fully as may be ; in which he chargeth felicissimus and fortunatus with their complices , that having set up a bishop against him at carthage , they sail to the chair of peter , and the principal church from whence the sacerdotal vnity had its rise , and carry letters from prophane and schismatical persons , not considering that the romans ( whose faith was commended by the apostle ) were such to whom perfidiousness could not have access . now the meaning of this place you would have to be this , and no other , viz. that the see of s. peter , which is the principal of all churches , was so infallibly directed by the holy ghost , that no errour in faith could have access to it , or be admitted by it ▪ if not as a particular church , yet at least as the head of the vniversal church of christ , and as the fountain of priestly vnity ; which s. cyprian here expresly affirms that church and see to be . this you summe up at last , as the most which can be made of this testimony ; and which is indeed far more in all particulars than it can amount to . which will appear by particular examinations of what you return in answer to his lordship . three things his lordship answers to this place . . that perfidia can hardly stand here for errour in faith ; and if so then this can make nothing for infallibility . . that supposing it granted to signifie errour in faith and doctrine , yet it belongs not to the romans absolutely , but with a respect to those first romans whose faith was commended by the apostle . . that it seems to be rather a rhetorical insinuation , than a dogmatical assertion . and that s. cyprian could not be supposed to assert herein the popes infallibility , appears by the contracts between him and the bishops of rome . this is the short of his lordships answers to this place , to which we must consider what you reply . . his lordship sayes , that perfidia can hardly stand for errour in faith or misbelief , but it properly signifies malicious falshood in matter of trust and action , not error in faith , but in fact against the discipline and government of the church . and to make this interpretation appear the more probable , his lordship gives an account of the story which was the occasion of writing that epistle , which is this , as his lordship reports it from binius and baronius ; in the year . there was a council in carthage in the cause of two schismaticks , felicissimus and novatian , about restoring of them to the communion of the church , which had lapsed in time of danger from christianity to idolatry . felicissimus would admit all even without penance , and novatian would admit none , no not after penance . the fathers in number went , as truth led them , between both extreams . to this council came privatus a known heretick , but was not admitted because he was formerly excommunicated , and often condemned . hereupon he gathers his complices together , and chooses one fortunatus ( who was formerly condemned as well as himself ) bishop of carthage , and set him up against st. cyprian . this done felicissimus and his fellows haste to rome with letters testimonial from their own party , and pretend that bishops concurred with them : and their desire was to be received into the communion of the roman church , and to have their new bishop acknowledged . cornelius then pope , though their haste had now prevented st. cyprians letters , having formerly heard from him , both of them , and their schism in africk would neither hear them , nor receive their letters . they grew insolent and furious ( the ordinary way that schismaticks take ) . vpon this cornelius writes to st. cyprian ▪ and st. cyprian in this epistle gives cornelius thanks , for refusing these african fugitives , declares their schism and wickedness at large , and encourages him and all bishops to maintain the ecclesiastical discipline , and censures against any the boldest threatnings of wicked schismaticks . this being the story , his lordship sayes , he would fain know why perfidia ( all circumstances considered ) may not stand here in its proper sense for cunning and perfidious dealing , which these men having practised at carthage , thought now to obtrude upon the bishop of rome also , but that he was wary enough not to be over-reached by busie schismaticks ? this demand of his lordship seeming very just and reasonable we are bound to consider what reasons you give , why perfidia must be understood for errour in faith and not in the sense here mentioned . why calls he ( say you ) st. peters chair , ecclesiam principalem ( the chief church ) but because it is the head to which all other churches must be subordinate in matter of doctrine ? the words following signifie as much , unde unitas sacerdotalis exorta est , from which chair of st. peter as it were from its fountain , unity in priesthood and consequently unity in faith is derived . why brings he the apostle as panegyrist of the roman faith ? is it forsooth , because no malicious falshood in matter of trust or errour in fact against the discipline and government of the church can have access unto them , as the bishop will needs misinterpret the place ? or rather because no errour in faith can approach the see apostolick ? certain it is perfidia in this sense , is diametrically opposed to the faith of the romans immediately before commended by the apostle ( which was true christian faith ) and consequently it must of necessity be taken for the quite contrary , viz. misbelief or errour in faith. three arguments in these words you produce , why perfidia must be understood of errour in faith. . because the church of rome is called the chief church ; but is it not possible it should be called so in any other sense , but as the head of all other churches in matter of doctrine ? is it not sufficiently clear from antiquity , that there were other accounts of calling the church of rome the chief or principal church , as the eminency of it joyned with the power of the city ( the potentior principalitas in irenaeus ) which advanced its reputation to the height it was then at ? what matters of doctrine do you find brought to the church of rome to be infallibly decided there in st. cyprians time ? how little did st. cyprian believe this , when he so vehemently opposed the judgement of stephen bishop of rome in the case of rebaptization ? doth he write , speak , or carry himself in that controversie like one that owned that church of rome to be head of all other churches , to which they must be subordinate in matter of doctrine ? nay in the very next words st. cyprian argues against appeals to rome , and is it possible then to think , that in these words he should give such an absolute power and authority to it ? and therefore any one who would reconcile st. cyprian to himself must by those words of ecclesia principalis only understand the dignity and eminency , and not the power , much less the infallibility of the church of rome . and no more is implyed in the second , that it is said to be the fountain of sacerdotal vnity , which some think may probably referr to the priesthood of the church of africk , which had its rise from the church of rome , as appears by tertullian and others , in which sense he might very well say , that the vnity of the priesthood did spring from thence ; or if it be taken in a more large and comprehensive sense it can import no more then that the church of rome was owned as the principium vnitatis , which certainly is a very different thing from an infallible judgement in matters of faith. for what connexion is there between vnity in government , and infallibility in faith ? suppose the church of rome should be owned as the principal member of the catholick church , and therefore that the vnity of the church should begin there in regard of the dignity of it , doth it thence follow that there must be an absolute subordination of all other churches to it ? nothing then can be inferr'd from either of those particulars , that by perfidia , errour in faith must be understood , taking those two expressions in the most favourable sense that can be put upon them . but considering the present state of the church of rome at the time when felicissimus and fortunatus came thither , i am apt to think another interpretation more probable than either of the foregoing . for which we must remember that there was a schism at rome between novatianus and cornelius , the former challenging to be bishop there , as well as the latter , upon which a great breach was made among them . now these persons going out of africa to rome , that they might manage their business with the more advantage , address themselves to cornelius and his party ; upon which st. cyprian saith , navigare audent ad petri cathedram atque ad ecclesiam principalem , unde vnitas sacerdotalis exorta est , thereby expressing their confidence that they not only went to rome , but when they were there , they did not presently side with the schismatical party of the novatians there , but as though they had been true catholicks , they go to cornelius , who , being the legal successour of st. peter in opposition to novatianus , calls his see the chair of st. peter , and the principal church , and the spring of the vnity of the priesthood ; because the contrary party of novatianus had been the cause of all the schism and disunion which had been among them . and in this sense which seems very agreeable to st. cyprians words and design , we may easily understand what this perfidia was , viz. that falseness and perfidious dealing of these persons , that although they were schismaticks themselves , yet they were so farr from seeming so at their coming to rome , that as though they had been very good catholicks , they seek to joyn in communion with cornelius and the catholick party with him . by which we see what little probability there is from those expressions that perfidia must be taken , for an errour in faith. but , . you say , to what purpose else doth he mention st. pauls commendation of their faith , if this perfidia were not immediately opposite to it ? but then inform us what part of that apostolical faith was it , which felicissimus and fortunatus sought to violate at rome ? it is apparent their whole design was to be admitted into communion with the church of rome ( which in all probability is that access here spoken of ) : if therefore this perfidia imported some errour in faith , it must be some errour broached by those particular persons as contrary to the old roman faith which was extold by the apostle . and although these persons might be guilty of errours , yet the ground of their going to rome , was not upon any matter of doctrine , whereby they sought to corrupt the church of rome , but in order to the justifying of their schism , by being admitted into the communion of that church . notwithstanding then any thing you have produced to the contrary , there is no necessity of understanding perfidia , for an errour in matter of faith. and st. cyprians mentioning the praise given to the romans for their faith by the apostle , was not to shew the opposition between that and the perfidia as an errour in faith , but that being the greatest elogium of the church of rome extant in scripture , he thought it now most convenient to use it , the better to engage cornelius to oppose the proceedings of the schismaticks there . although withall , i suppose st. cyprian might give him some taste of his old office , of a rhetorician in the allusion between fides and perfidia , without ever intending that perfidia should be taken in any other sense then what was proper to the cause in hand . you having effected so little in the solution of his lordships first answer , you have little cause to boast in your following words , that hence his other explication also vanishes into smoak , viz. when he asserts that perfidia non potest may be taken hyperbolically for non facile potest ; because this interpretation suits not with those high elogiums given by st. cyprian to the roman church , as being the principal church , the church whence vnity of faith and discipline is derived to all other christian churches . if you indeed may have the liberty to interpret st. cyprians words as you please , by adding such things to them , of which there is no intimation in what he saith , you may make what you please unsuitable to them . for although he calls it the principal church , from whence the vnity of the priesthood is sprung ; yet what is this to the vnity of faith and discipline as derived from thence to all other churches , as you would perswade the unwary reader that these were st. cyprians words , which are only your groundless interpretation of them . and therefore there is no such improbability in what his lordship sayes , that this may be only a rhetorical excess of speech , in which st. cyprian may laudando praecipere , by commending them to be such , instruct them that such indeed they ought to be , to whom perfidiousness should not get access . and for this he instanceth in such another rhetorical expression of synesius to theophilus of alexandria , wherein he tells him that he ought to esteem what his throne should determine as an oracle or divine law. and certainly this comes nearer infallibility than that of st. cyprian doth . but what inconveniency there should be , that st. cyprian by this interpretation should give no more prerogative to the church of rome , than to that of alexandria or antioch , i cannot easily imagine , till you prove some greater infallibility attributed then to the church of rome , than was to other apostolical churches : which as yet we are to seek for . but at length ( you tell us ) after much ado he grants perfidia may be taken for errour in faith , or for perfidious misbelievers and schismaticks , who had betrayed their faith ; but then ( say you ) he cavils with the word romanos . this must be limited only to those christians , who then lived in rome , to whom quà tales , as long as they continued such , errour in faith could not have access . what you say , his lordship , doth at length and after much ado , he did freely and willingly ; but that you might have occasion for those words , you altered the course of his answers , and put the second in the last place . but still you have the unhappiness to misunderstand him . for although he grants that perfidia may relate to errour in faith , yet as it is here used , it is not understood of it abstractly but concretely , for perfidious misbelievers , i. e. such perfidious persons , excommunicated out of other churches , were not likely to get access at rome , or to find admittance into their communion . and in this sense , it is plain that st. cyprian did not intend by these words , to exempt the romans from possibility of errour , but to brand his adversaries with a title due to their merit , calling them perfidious , i. e. such as had betrayed or perverted the faith. when you therefore ask , is not this great praise ? i suppose none but your self would make a question of it , viz. that the church of rome had then so great purity as not to admit such perfidious misbelievers into her communion . and it were well if the present church of rome were capable of the same praise . but when you add , it is as if st. cyprian should say st. peters see could not erre so long as it continued constant in the truth ; you wilfully misunderstand his lordships meaning , who speaks of the persons and not meerly of their errours ; but however , is it not a commendation to say that the church of rome consisted of such persons then who adhered to the apostolical faith , and therefore errour could not have access to them ? and i look on it as so great a commendation , that i heartily wish it could be verified of your church now . neither is this any such identical proposition as that you produce , but only a declaration of their present constancy , and inferring thence , how unlikely it was that errours should be admitted by them . his lordship to make it plain that st. cyprian had no meaning to assert the unerring infallibility of either pope or church of rome , insists on the contest which after happened between st. cyprian and pope stephen ; upon which he saith expresly , that pope stephen did not only maintain an errour but the very cause of hereticks , and that against christians and the very church of god. and after this he chargeth him , with obstinacy and presumption ; and i hope this is plain enough ( saith his lordship ) to shew that st. cyprian had no great opinion of the roman infallibility . to this you answer , with a famous distinction of the popes erring as a private doctor and as the vniversal pastor , and that st. cyprian might very well be supposed to think the pope erred only in the first sense . not to spend time in rifling this distinction of the popes erring personally , but not judicially , or as a private doctor , but not as vniversal pastor , which it were an easie matter to do , by manifesting the incongruity of it , and the absurdities consequent upon it , in case that doctrine which the pope erres in , comes to be judicially decided by him ; it is sufficient for us at present to shew that this distinction cannot relieve you in our present case . for your doctors tell us , the pope then erres personally and as a private doctor , when he erres only in his own judgement without obliging others to believe , what he judges to be true ; but then he erres judicially and as vniversal pastor , when he declares his judgement so as to oblige others to receive it as true . now can any thing be more evident then that st. cyprian judged pope stephen to erre in this latter and not in the former sense ? for doth he not absolutely and severely declare himself against st. cyprians opinion : condemning it as an errour and an innovation ? but say you , he did not properly define any doctrine in that contestation ; but said nihil innovetur nisi quod traditum . but was not that the question what was traditum and what not , for cyprian and his party denyed it to be a tradition , which stephen asserted was so ; and doth he not therefore undertake to define something in this cause ? but say you , if this argument hold good against the infallibility of popes , viz. that st. cyprian held pope stephen erred , therefore the pope may erre in matters of faith , it will be a good consequence also to say st. cyprian held pope stephen erred , even whilst he maintained an universal immemorial tradition — therefore the pope may erre whilst he follows such a tradition . i answer , . who besides you , would not have seen , that the question was not , whether the pope was infallible or no , but whether st. cyprian judged him to be infallible or no ? for if it appear that st. cyprian did not judge him infallible , then those former words cannot be interpreted to such a sense as doth imply infallibility . . no doubt if the pope may err in other things , he may err when he thinks he follows an universal immemorial tradition ; not that he doth err , when he doth really follow such a one , but he may err in judging that to be an universal immemorial tradition which is not : and this was the case between st. cyprian and pope stephen ; the pope pretended to follow an universal tradition , st. cyprian judgeth him to err in it , and that it was not so . and is it not plain still , notwithstanding these frivolous pretences , that st. cyprian had no opinion at all of the popes infallibility in any sense : and therefore out of honour to him , you are bound to interpret his former words to some other sense then that of any infallibility in the church of rome . thus all his lordships answers standing good , you have gained no great matter by this first testimony of st. cyprian . the second authority is out of st. hierome whose words are , the roman faith commended by the apostle , admits not such praestigiae , deceits and delusions into it , though an angel should preach it otherwise , than it was preached at first , being armed and fenced by st. pauls authority it cannot be changed . here you tell us , you willingly agree with his lordship that by romanam fidem , st. hierom understands the catholick faith of christ , and so you concur with him against bellarmine , that it cannot be understood of the particular church of rome . but by the way you charge your adversaries , with great inconsequence that in this place they make roman and catholick to be the same , and yet usually condemn you for joyning as synonyma 's roman and catholick together . a wonderful want of judgement ! as though the roman faith might not be the catholick faith then , and yet the catholick faith not be the roman faith now . the former speech only affirms that the faith at rome was truly catholick ; the latter implyes that no faith can be catholick but what agrees with rome : and think you there is no difference between these two ? but you say further , that this catholick faith must not here be taken abstractly that so it cannot be changed , for ruffinus was not ignorant of that , but that it must be understood of the immutable faith of the see apostolick , so highly commended by the apostle and st. hierom ; which is founded upon such a rock , that even an angel himself is not able to shake it . but st. hierom speaking this with a reference to that faith he supposeth the apostle commended in them ( although the apostle doth not so much commend the catholickness or soundness of their faith as the act of believing in them , and therefore whatever is drawn from thence , whether by st. hierome or any else can have no force in it ; for if he should infe● the immutability of the faith of the church of rome from so apparently weak a foundation , there can be no greater strength in his testimony than there is in the ground on which it is built ; and if there be any force in this argument , the church of thessalonica will be as infallible as rome , for her faith is commended rather in a more ample manner by the apostle then that of rome is ) st. hierome , i say , referring to that faith he supposes the apostle commended in them , must only be understood of the unchangeableness of that first faith , which appears by the mention of an angel from heaven preaching otherwise . which certainly cannot with any tolerable sense be meant thus , that st. hierome supposed it beyond the power of an angel from heaven to alter the faith of the roman church . for in the very same apology he expresseth his great fears , lest the faith of the romans should be corrupted by the books of ruffinus . but , say you , what is this then to ruffinus , who knew , as well as st. hierom , that faith could not change its essence ? however , though st. hierome should here speak of the primitive and apostolical faith which was then received at rome , that this could receive no alteration ; yet this was very pertinent to be told ruffinus , because st. hierome charges him with an endeavour to subvert the faith not meerly at rome , but in all other places , by publishing the books of origen with an encomiastick preface to them ; and therefore the telling him , the catholick faith would admit of no alteration , which was received at rome as elsewhere , might be an argument to discourage him from any attempts of that nature . and the main charge against ruffinus , is not an endeavour to subvert meerly the people of rome , but the latin church by his translation ; and therefore these words ought to be taken in their greatest latitude ; and so imply not at all any infallibility in the roman see. the remaining testimonies of gregory nazianzene , cyril , and ruffinus , ( as appears to any one who reads them ) only import that the roman church had to their time preserved the catholick faith ; but they do not assert it impossible it should ever do otherwise ; or that she is an infallible preserver of it , and none of their testimonies are so proper to the church of rome , but they would equally hold for any other apostolical churches at that time . gregory nazianzene indeed sayes , that it would become the church of rome to hold the entire faith alwayes : and would it not become any other church to do so to ? doth this import that she shall infallibly do it , or rather that it is her duty to do it ? and if these then be such pregnant authorities with you , it is a sign there is little or nothing to be found in antiquity for your purpose . but before we end this chapter , we are called to a new task on occasion of a testimony of st. cyril produced by his lordship in stead of that in bellarmin which appeared not in that chapter , where his name is mentioned . in which he asserts , that the foundation and firmness which the church of christ hath , is placed not in or upon the person , much less the successour of st. peter ; but upon the faith which by gods spirit in him he so firmly professed : which ( saith his lordship ) is the common received opinion both of the ancient fathers and of the protestants . vpon this rock , that is , upon this faith will i build my church . on which occasion you run presently out into that large common place concerning tu es petrus , and super hanc petram ; and although i should grant all that you so earnestly contend for , viz. that these words are not spoken of st. peters confession , but of his person , i know no advantage which will accrue to your cause by it . for although very many of the fathers understand this place of st. peters confession , as containing in it the ground and foundation of christian religion , thou art christ the son of the living god , which therefore may well be said to be the rock on which christ would build his church , and although it were no matter of difficulty to defend this interpretation from all exceptions ; yet because i think it not improbable ( the words running by way of address to st. peter ) that something peculiar to him , is contained in them , i shall not contend with you about that . but then , if you say that the meaning of st. peters being the rock , is , the constant infallibility in faith which was derived from st. peter to the church of rome , as you seem to suggest , you must remember you have a new task to make good , and it is not saying , that st. peter was meant by the rock , will come within some leagues of doing it . i pass therefore by that discourse as a thing we are not much concerned in , for it is brought in by his lordship as the last thing out of that testimony of cyril : but you were contented to let go the other more material observations , that you might more freely expatiate super hanc ●etram . touching ruffinus , i grant his lordship is of opinion , that he neither did nor could account the roman church infallible , for which he gives this reason , for if he had so esteemed of it , he would not have dissented from it in so main a point as is the canon of scripture as he plainly doth : for reckoning up the canonical books , he most manifestly dissents from the roman church . therefore either ruffinus did not think the church of rome was infallible , or else the church of rome at this day reckons up more books within the canon , than heretofore she did . if she do , then she is changed in a main point of faith , the canon of scripture , and is absolutely convinced not to be infallible ; for if she were right in her reckoning then , she is wrong now ; and if she be right now , she was wrong then ; and if she do not reckon now more then she did , when ruffinus lived , then he reckons fewer than she , and so dissents from her , which doubtless he durst not have done , had he thought her judgement infallible . yea and he sets this mark upon his dissent besides , that he reckons up the books of the canon just so , and no otherwise , then as he received them out of the monuments of the fore-fathers , and out of which the assertions of our faith are to be taken . now what have you to say to this strong and nervous discourse of his lordship ? why ( forsooth ) this argument of the bishop is far from being convincing . and why so ? for ( say you ) though it should be granted that the catholick church ( the roman you mean ) at present declares more books to be contained in the canon , than she did in ruffinus his time , yet this could be no errour in her . that is strange , that the church should declare the canon to be compleat then , without these books , and now not to be , and yet neither time be in an errour ! no ( say you ) unless it be shewed ( which i am sure cannot be ) that she condemned those books then as not divine scripture , or not canonical , which now she declares to be divine or canonical . excellent good still ! that which you are sure cannot be shewed , is obvious to any one that hath eyes in his head . for i only ask you , whether the church of rome did declare any canon or no , in that age ? if not , according to your principles those who lived in that age could have no divine faith as to the scripture : if she did declare the canon of scripture , without these books , did she not thereby condemn these books to be not canonical ? for you say , that all are bound to take her judgement what is in the canon and what not ; if therefore she did not put them into the canon , did she not leave them out of the canon ? or , can you find any medium between being put in and being left out ? yes ( say you ) these books were left then under dispute : with whom were they under dispute ? with the church of rome or not ? if with her , was she not infallible the mean while , when so great a matter as the canon of scripture was under dispute with her ? but this whole business concerning the canon of scripture is largely discussed already ; only here it is sufficient to shew , how you are pent in on every side ; so that there is no possibility of getting out . as to the strait ( his lordship takes notice of ) that the church of rome is driven to , in borrowing a testimony for her infallibility from one whom she branded with heresie in that very book from whence this testimony is taken ; you answer , that it evidently argues the truth and uncorruptedness of that church , which is so clear that even her adversaries cannot but confess it . but if they confess it no better then ruffinus doth , she will have little cause to applaud her self for her integrity in that respect . and although a testimony may be taken from persons suspected in some things , yet it argues those have but very few friends , who are fain to make use of their enemies to bear witness for them . what follows concerning a particular church being infallible , because you disown it ( although not consonantly to the principles of your party as was shewed in the occasion of the conference ) i pass by . the errours of the church of rome ( which his lordship mentions , but you say proves not ) you shall find abundantly proved before our task is over . your vindication of bellarmin from inconsistency in saying a proposition is most true , and yet but peradventure as true as another , is so fine and subtil that it were an injury to the reader to deprive him of the pleasure of perusing it . and yet when all is done , a proposition very false might be as true as this which bellarmin speaks of , viz. that the pope when he teacheth the whole church in matters of faith cannot erre . and thus i have cleared that there can be no ground of an imputation of schism on our church from hence , that the roman church is the catholick church , which acception of the catholick church i have manifested to be as great a stranger to antiquity as it is an enemy to reason : and that the calling the roman church the catholick church , is ( as his lordship truly saith ) a meer novelty and perfect jesuitism . chap. ii. protestants no schismaticks . schism a culpable separation ; therefore the question of schism , must be determined by enquiring into the causes of it . the plea from the church of rome's being once a right church , considered . no necessity of assigning the punctual time when errours crept into her . an account why the originals of errours seem obscure . by stapleton's confession , the roman and catholick church were not the same . the falsity of that assertion manifested , that there could be no pure church since the apostles times , if the roman church were corrupt . no one particular church free from corruptions ; yet no separation from the catholick church . how far the catholick church may be said to erre . men may have distinct communion from any one particular church , yet not separate from the catholick church . the testimony of petrus de alliaco vindicated . bellarmin not mis-cited . almain full to his lordships purpose . the romanists guilty of the present schism , and not protestants . in what sense there can be no just cause of schism ; and how far that concerns our case . protestants did not depart from the church of rome , but were thrust out of it . the vindication of the church of rome from schism , at last depends upon the two false principles , of her infallibility , and being the catholick church . the testimonies of s. bernard and s. austin not to the purpose . the catalogue of fundamentals , the churches not erring , &c. referr'd back to their proper places . before i come to examine the particulars of this chapter , it will be necessary to see , what the state of the controversie was , concerning schism , between his lordship and his adversary . his lordship delivers his sense clearly and fully in these words ; t is too true indeed , that there is a miserable rent in the church , and i make no question but the best men do most bemoan it ; nor is he a christian that would not have vnity , might he have it with truth . but , i never said , nor thought , that the protestants made this rent . the cause of the schism is yours ; for you thrust us from you , because we call'd for truth , and redress of abuses . for a schism must needs be theirs , whose the cause of it is . the woe runs full out of the mouth of christ ever against him that gives the offence ; not against him that takes it ever . and in the margent , shewing that a separation may sometimes be necessary , he instanceth in the orthodox departing from the communion of the arrians : upon which he sayes ; it cannot be that a man should do well in making a schism . there may be therefore a necessary separation , which yet incurrs not the guilt of schism ; and that is , when doctrines are taught contrary to the catholick faith. and after saith , the protestants did not depart : for , departure is voluntary , so was not theirs ; i say not theirs , taking their whole body and cause together . for , that some among them were peevish , and some ignorantly zealous , is neither to be doubted , nor is there danger in confessing it . your body is not so perfect ( i wot well ) but that many amongst you are as pettish and as ignorantly zealous as any of ours . you must not suffer for these , nor we for those , nor should the church of christ for either . and when a. c. saith , that though the church of rome did thrust the protestants from her by excommunication , yet they had first divided themselves by obstinate holding and teaching opinions contrary to the roman faith. his lordship answers , so then in his opinion , excommunication on their part was not the prime cause of this division , but the holding and teaching of contrary opinions . why but then in my opinion ( saith he ) that holding and teaching was not the prime cause neither , but the corruptions and superstitions of rome , which forced many men to hold and teach the contrary : so , the prime cause was theirs still . and a. c. telling him , that he said that it was ill done of those who first made the separation . he answers , that though he remembred not that he said those words ; yet withall adds , if i did not say it then , i do say it now ; and most true it is , that it was ill done of those , whoere they were , who first made the separation . but then a. c. must not understand me of actual only , but of causal separation . for ( as i said before ) the schism is theirs , whose the cause of it is : and he makes the separation that gives the first just cause of it ; not he that makes an actual separation upon a just cause preceding . and this is so evident a truth , that a. c. cannot deny it , for he sayes it is most true . these passages i have laid together , that the reader may clearly understand the full state of this great controversie concerning schism ; the upshot of which , is , that it is agreed between both parties , that all separation from communion with a church , doth not involve in it the guilt of schism , but only such a separation as hath no sufficient cause or ground for it . so that the question comes to this , whether your church were not guilty of such errours and corruptions , as gave sufficient cause for such a separation . the question being thus stated , we now come to consider how you make good your part in it . your first pretence is ( if reduced into argument , for you seem to have a particular pique against a close way of disputing ) that your church is a right and orthodox church , and therefore could never give any just cause of separation from it . for the lady asked ( as a. c. would have it ) whether the roman church was not the right church ; not , be not , but , was not ; that is , relating to the times , before the breach was made . now his lordship tells him , that as to the terms he might take his choice ; for the church of rome neither is , nor was the right church , as the lady desired to hear . a particular church it is , and was , and in some times right , and in some times wrong : but the right church , or the holy catholick church , it never was , nor ever can be . and therefore was not such before luther and others left it , or were thrust from it . a particular church it was ; but then a. c. is not distinct enough here neither . for the church of rome , both was , and was not a right or orthodox church before luther made a breach from it . for the word ante , before , may look upon rome , and that church a great way off , or long before ; and then in the prime times of it , it was a most right and orthodox church . but it may look also nearer home , and upon the immediate times before luther , or some ages before that : and then in those times rome was a corrupt and tainted church , far from being right . and yet both these times , before luther made his breach . and so he concludes that section with this clause , that the roman church which was once right , is now become wrong , by embracing superstition and errour . and what say you now to all this ? two things you have to return in answer to it , or at least to these two all that you say may be reduced . . that if the roman church was right once , it is so still . . that if the roman church were wrong before luther , the catholick church was so too . these two containing all that is said in this case , must be more particularly discussed . . that if the roman was the right church , it still is so , seeing no change can be shewn in her doctrine . if there have been a change , let it appear when , and in what the change was made . thus you say : but you know his lordship never granted , that the roman church ever was the right church ( in the sense you take those words for the true catholick church ; ) that it was once a right particular church he acknowledged , and as such was afterwards tainted with errours and corruptions . if so , you desire to know what these were , and when they came in ; to the former i shall reserve an answer till i come to the third part of my task , where you shall have an account of them ; to the latter , the time when these came in , because this is so much insisted on by your party , i shall return you an answer in this place . and that i shall do in these following propositions . . nothing can be more unreasonable , than to deny , that errours and corruptions have come into a church , meerly because the punctual time of their coming in cannot be assigned . for , will any one question the birth of an infant , because he cannot know the time of his conception ? will any one deny there are tares in the field , because he did not see them sown ? and our saviour hath told us , that the time of sowing tares by the enemy , was , when the men were asleep . so we say , the errours and corruptions of your church came in , in a time of great ignorance , when little notice was taken of them , and few records preserved of those times and all the passages of them . since learning and religion commonly decay and flourish together , how is it possible there should be as exact an account given of the decay of religion , as of the flourishing of it ? besides , are there not many things you judge errours and corruptions your selves , which you can give no account when they first entred into the church ? as the necessity of communicating infants ; name us the person who first broached that doctrine , and the time in which it was first received in the church ? that no souls of men departed , shall see god till the day of resurrection , is , i suppose , with you , an errour ; yet it would puzzle you to find out the first authour of it . so for the rebaptizing hereticks , and many things of a like nature , it is easier to shew , when they appeared publickly , than when they first came into the church . and as evident is it , in the decay of the primitive discipline of the church , the altering the orders of penitents , and the rites belonging to them , the leaving of the communicatory letters between churches , and many other customes of the church grown into disuse ; and yet i suppose you will not presume to name the persons who first altered the former orders of the church ; and methinks , this is as reasonable as the naming the punctual time when other corruptions came in . if you say , the primitive discipline decayed gradually and insensibly ; so say i , that the churches corruptions came in as the other went out , in the same gradual and insensible manner ; and if you cannot name the precise time of the one , it is not reasonable you should expect the other from us . . we may have sufficient reason to judge what are errours and corruptions in a church , though we cannot fix on the time when they came in : which is , by comparing them with that rule of faith which is delivered down by an interrupted tradition to us , and with the practice of the first ages of the christian church . what is apparently contrary to either of these , we have reason to reject , though we cannot determine when it first came in . for as long as these are our certain standards , it matters not who first departed from them , as long as we see that they have departed . but when we own an absolute and infallible rule of faith and manners , to question , whether any thing contrary to it , be an errour or no , because we cannot tell when it first began , would be , as if the aegyptians , when they saw their land overflowed by the nile , should question , whether it were so or no , because they could not find out the head of nilus . . they who assert their doctrines and practices to be apostolical , are bound to shew the continued succession of them from the apostles times . and if they fail in this , upon their own principles , they must be errours and corruptions , though the punctual time of their first obtaining in the church , cannot be set down . since therefore you affirm , you are bound to prove . if you say , the judgement of your church being infallible , you need prove no more than that . i answer , you must prove that this infallibility then , hath been ever received in the church ; but if there be not the least footstep of it in the records of the ancient church , we justly look on this as an errour of the first magnitude , though we cannot tell you the minute of its first rising . . we have sufficient evidence from your selves , that many doctrines and practices are owned by you , which are of no great antiquity in the christian church . thus , by the confession of scotus , transubstantiation is no elder than the council of lateran , purgatory not much heard of in the primitive church by the acknowledgement of bishop fisher , communion in one kind confessed by most to be contrary to the primitive practice and institution , prayer in an unknown tongue can be no elder than the general disuse of the latin tongue in the roman provinces . and so for many others , for which we have the confessions of your own party ; but i need not insist upon that , since your very doctrine of the churches power to declare matters of faith , may make things necessary in one age , which were not in a foregoing , and , in that case , sure it is no great difficulty to tell you , when some things of school-points became necessary doctrines ; but then the question goes off from the time to the matter , whether any thing declared by your church can be an errour : but of that , enough hath been said already . . there may be a sufficient account given , why the beginnings of errours and corruptions in your church have been so obscure ; because they came not in all of a sudden , but some at one time , some at another , because they rise gradually , as is apparent in invocation of saints , and worship of images , because many of those things which ended in great corruptions , were taken up at first out of good designs , to win more upon the gentile world , because many things were at first practised freely , which afterwards were urged as necessary ; because barbarism came into the church along with these corruptions ; because many who gave occasion to them , were persons of great esteem in their age , and others strove to follow their example more than the rule ; because the state of the church did very much alter from it self in several ages , which altered mens apprehensions and judgements of things , in regard of their suitableness and necessity ; because those persons who brought in , and contended for these things , were the persons chiefly in power then in the church , which hindered their being cast out of communion as others had been ; because a long time most of these errours and corruptions , were but the private opinions and practices of a faction , though then the more prevalent in the church , and therefore not so vehemently opposed in the first rise of them , as when this imposthumated matter was grown to a head , and then there was a necessity of lancing it . these , and several other reasons might be given , why the first originals of errours and corruptions in your church , cannot with so much clearness be manifested , as that they were errours and corruptions : although such , who would take the pains to travel in an argument of that nature , might with very great probability , trace the most both of your errours and corruptions to the time and age , when they were first publickly owned and received . but thus much may here suffice as to your demand , that if your church be not the same she was , we should mention the time , when the change was made . as though chronical distempers could not be known , unless we could set down the punctual time of their first on-set . the distempers of your church are hectical , i wish not in that respect , that they are seldome fully discovered , till they be incurable . . you answer , that if your church hath erred , the catholick church hath done so too ; for which you say two things . . that in this dispute the roman church , and the catholick church , are all one . . that then there was no one visible church untainted , uncorrupt , right , orthodox throughout the whole world . . you learnedly tell us , that the roman and catholick church are all one in this dispute , and most discreetly tell his lordship , that he beggs the question in supposing the contrary ; but you know whose arts those are to charge their neighbours with that , they were sure to be told of themselves , if the other had spoke first . but very worthily you prove this , from d. stapleton , who offers to confirm his assertion by that which overthrows yours . he sayes , that amongst the ancients , the roman church , and the catholick church were taken for the same , and his reason is , because the communion of the roman church was most certainly and evidently with the whole catholick . and , can any thing then be more plain , than that the roman and catholick church were not the same ? for , can any thing be the measure of it self ? if it were therefore catholick , because agreeing with the catholick church , then it was not causally the catholick church , but only by way of communion and participation . if i should say , that a man and a living-creature , are the same , and should give this reason for it , because man agrees in every thing with the nature of a living creature ; doth this imply , that the formal notion of man , and a living-creature , are the same ? or only that man partakes so much of the properties of a living creature , that he may well receive the denomination ? so it is here with the roman church , that might well be called catholick by the ancients , because it did partake of the properties of the catholick church , but not as though the formal reason of a churches being catholick , came from partaking of communion with the roman church ; as you assert , wherein you are diametrically opposite to stapleton , for he makes the reason , why the roman church was catholick , to be , because it had communion with the catholick church . by which it is evident , that the notion of the catholick church was much larger than that of the roman church . besides , stapleton only saith , that the ancients thought so , and surely they thought so only of the roman church of their own time ; which might then have certain communion with the catholick church , and yet not have so in the next age ensuing ; therefore , though the catholick church continue ever the same , and incorrupt , it will by no means follow , that the roman church must do so too . whatever a. c. or you understand by the catholick church , is not , as you elsewhere phrase it , a straws matter , unless you proved better than you have done , that the proper notion of the holy catholick church , is the same with those who agree with the church of rome in doctrine and communion . which is your fundamental mistake , and a thing you would fain have taken for granted , without the least shadow of a solid proof . but there may be more force in your second answer , that if the roman church were wrong and corrupted , it follows , that not only for some time , but for many ages before luther , yea even up to the apostles times , there was no one visible church untainted , uncorrupt , right , orthodox throughout the whole world . it were worth our while to know what you mean by no one visible church ; do you think there are , or may be , more visible churches than one , taking the visible church in its proper sense for the catholick visible church ? if this be your meaning in general , how unhappily soever it be expressed , viz. that then it follows , there could be no visible church at all with whom we might have communion ; i see not how it is proved by what you bring : but if this be all you aim at ( for no further your arguments will carry you ) that there was no one visible church untainted , i. e. no one church of a distinct communion from other churches altogether free from errour ; i see no such dangerous consequence in the owning it . but if it were so , when luther began to oppose the corruptions of the church of rome , how doth it follow that it must be so even up to the apostles times ? but we ought to see , how you prove your assertion . for if in all those ages the roman church were wrong , corrupted , and tainted ; and all those likewise that disagreed from her , viz. hussites , albigenses , waldenses , wicklevites , greeks , abyssins , armenians , &c. had in them corrupt doctrine during those ages ( as 't is certain they had , neither could the relator deny it ) i say , if the roman church was thus corrupt ; it follows , that not only for some time , but for many ages before luther , yea even up to the apostles times , there was no one visible church untainted , incorrupt , right , and orthodox , throughout the whole world . and consequently , that during the said ages , every good christian was in conscience obliged in some point of christian belief or other , to contradict the doctrine , and desert the communion of all visible churches in the world , &c. whence it would further follow , that schism or separation from the external communion of the whole church might be not only lawful , but even necessary ; which is impossible , as being contrary to the very essential predicates of schism , which is defined to be , a voluntary or wilful departure ( such as no just cause , or reason , can be given of it ) from the communion of the whole church . three things this discourse of yours may be resolved into . . that if in luthers time the roman church was corrupt , then there was no one visible church uncorrupt . . that if so , it follows that there was none uncorrupt even up to the apostles times . . that if there were no one visible church uncorrupt , then it was necessary to separate from the external communion of the whole church . to every one of these i shall return a peculiar and distinct answer . to the first i say , that the utmost you can prove from hence , is , that there was no one church of any distinct communion from others , which was free from all errours . and what great absurdity is there in saying so ? unless you could prove , that there must be some one church in all ages of the world , which must be free from all kind or possibility of errour . and when you have done this , i shall acknowledge it absurd to say the contrary ; but otherwise that very supposition seems to have the greater absurdity in it ; because it restrains the utmost supposable priviledges of the truly catholick church , to a particular church of some one denomination . what then if we grant that in luthers time , there was no one visible church free from errours and corruptions ? what if we should say , in our own times ? what if , in elder times ? for that which is possible to be , may be supposed actually in any time . if it be possible for one particular church to fall into errours and corruptions , why is it not for another ? ( unless some particular priviledge of infallibility be pretended ; but that is not our present question ) if it be possible for every particular church to fall into errour , why may not that possibility come into act in one age , as well as several ? is there any promise that there shall be a succession and course of erring in churches , that one church must erre for one age , and another for the next ? but that it shall never fall out , that by any means whatsoever they shall erre together ? if there be no such promise to the contrary , the reason of the thing will hold , that they may all erre at the same time . no , say you , for then it would follow , that the catholick church might erre . to that i answer , . either you mean by that , that all societies in the christian world may concurr in the same errour , or else that several of them may have several errours : and this latter is it only which you prove , for you do not suppose that the romanists , hussites , albigenses , &c. were all guilty of the same errours , but that these several societies were guilty of several errours ; and therefore from hence it follows not , that they may all concurr in the same errour , which is the only way to prove that the church as catholick may erre , for otherwise you only prove , that the several particular churches , which make up the catholick , may fall into errour . . supposing all these churches should agree in one errour , ( which is more than you have proved , or , it may be , can ) have you proved that they concurr in such an errour , which destroies the being of the catholick church ? for you would do well to evince , that the church is secured from any but such errours which destroy its being ; for the means of proving , that the catholick church cannot erre , are built on the promises of its perpetuity ; now those can only prove that the church is secured from fundamental errours , for those are such only which destroy its being . and so his lordship tells you , that the whole church cannot universally erre in the doctrine of faith , is most true , and granted by divers protestants ( so you will but understand it s not erring in absolute fundamental doctrines ) and this he proves , from that promise of christ , that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it . so that the catholick churche's not erring , and the perpetuity of the catholick church do with us , mean the same thing . for his lordship grants , that she may erre in superstructures , and deductions , and other by , and vnnecessary truths , if her curiosity , or other weakness , carry her beyond , or cause her to fall short of her rule . there is then a great difference between saying , that the catholick church cannot erre , which is no more than to say , that there shall be alwaies a catholick church , and saying , that there must be alwaies some one visible church , which must be free from all errour and corruption . for this we deny , and you produce no reason at all to prove it . granting , that all particular churches , whether of romanists , greeks , or others , are subject to errours and corruptions , we assert no more of them , than you grant your selves , that any particular church is subject to ; for the only ground , why you would have your church exempt from errour , is , the supposing her not to be a particular , but the catholick church , which implies , that if she were only a particular church ( as she is no more ) she might be subject to errours as well as other churches . and what incongruity then there is in asserting , that there may be no one visible church of any particular denomination free from all errour and corruption , i cannot understand . but further , you say , if there were no one visible church then free from errour , it follows , not only for some time , but for many ages before luther , yea even up to the apostles times , there was no one visible church untainted throughout the whole world . not to meddle with the truth of the thing , whether there were so or no , the consequence is that , we are now to examine ; that if it were so in luthers time , it must be so even up to the apostles times . the proof of which depends upon the impossibility of a churches degeneracy in faith or manners , and so supposeth the thing in question , that there must be some one visible church absolutely exempt from all impossibility of errour . for otherwise that might be true in one age , which might not in another . for although we say , that particular churches may erre , and be corrupt , we do not say , that it is necessary they should alwaies be so . for , in some ages particular churches may be free from errour and corruption , and yet in another age be overspread with them . and thus we assert it to have been with the roman church : for his lordship saith , in the prime times it was a most right and orthodox church , but in the immediate times before . luther , or in some ages before , that it was a corrupt and tainted church : and so in those times in which it was right , those might be heretical who did not communicate with it , not meerly because they did not communicate with it , but because in not communicating with a right and orthodox church they shewed themselves guilty of some errour or corruption . we see then , there is no connexion in the world in the parts of your consequence , that if it were so at one time , it must be so alwaies ; if in the time of luther , it must be so even up to the apostles times . . from hence you say it will follow , that it will be necessary to separate from the external communion of the whole church . i answer , there can be no separation from the whole church , but in such things wherein the vnity of the whole church lyes ; for separation is a violation of some vnion : now when men separate from the errours of all particular churches , they do not separate from the whole , because those things which one separates from those particular churches for , are not such , as make all them put together to be the whole , or catholick church . this must be somewhat further explained . there are two things considerable in all particular churches ; those things which belong to it as a church , and those things which belong to it as a particular church . those things which belong to it as a church , are the common ligaments or grounds of union between all particular churches , which taken together , make up the catholick church : those things which belong to it as a particular church , are such as it may retain the essence of a church without . now , i say , whosoever separates from any particular church ( much more from all ) for such things without which that can be no church , separates from the communion of the catholick church ; but he that separates only from particular churches as to such things which concern not their being , is only separated from the communion of those churches , and not the catholick . and therefore , supposing that all particular churches have some errours and corruptions in them , though i should separate from them all , i do not separate from the communion of the whole church , unless it be for something , without which those could be no churches . an evidence of which , is , that by my declaring the grounds of my separation to be such errours and corruptions , which are crept into the communion of such churches , and imposed on me in order to it , i withall declare my readiness to joyn with them again , if those errours and corruptions be left out . and where there is this readiness of communion , there is no absolute separation from the church as such , but only suspending communion till such abuses be reformed . which is therefore more properly a separation from the errours , than the communion of such a church . wherefore if we suppose that there is no one visible church , whose communion is not tainted with some corruptions , though , if these corruptions be injoyned as conditions of communion , i cannot communicate with any of those churches , yet it follows not that i am separated from the external communion of the catholick church , but that i only suspend communion with those particular churches , till i may safely joyn with them . as , suppose all the particular men i can converse with , were infected with leprosie , my not associating with them , doth not imply that i am separated from the communion of all mankind , but that i am loath to be infected as they are , and therefore withdraw my self till i can meet with such healthful persons with whom i may safely associate again . and if several other persons be of the same mind with me , and we therefore joyn together , do we therefore divide our selves from the whole world by only taking care of our own safety ? and especially if any company of such leprous persons should resolve that none should live among them , but such as would eat of those meats which brought that distemper upon them ; our withdrawing our selves , and associating without them will still appear more reasonable and commendable . therefore we say , we do not necessarily separate from all churches that have errours or corruptions in them , supposing those errours and corruptions be not imposed on us , as conditions of communion ; and thence though we should grant , no one visible church free from taint or corruption , yet it is not necessary we should separate from them all : for we may lawfully joyn in communion with churches having errours and corruptions , if our joyning be not an approbation of them . thus though the greeks , armenians , albigenses , abyssms may have some errours , or corruptions , yet if they be not fundamental , and be not injoyned as necessary to be approved in order to their communion , notwithstanding them , we may lawfully communicate with them . it doth not then at all follow , that if there may be no one visible church free from errour and corruption , it would be necessary to separate from the communion of the catholick church : because . all those particular churches may not make those errours conditions of communion . . though they did , we separate not from them as catholick , but as corrupt and erroneous particular churches . and therefore you might have spared your labour in telling us from the holy fathers , and the reverend and learned dr. hammond , that it can never be lawful to separate from the catholick church , for we assert the same , but have made it appear that it follows not from the premises which were laid down . his lordship having said , that the roman church before luther was a corrupt and tainted church , in his margin produceth a citation to that purpose of cardinal de alliaco , who acknowledgeth infinite abuses , schisms and heresies to prevail over the christian world ; so that it is plain , the church of god stands in need of due reformation . from which his lordship saith , that it will hardly sink into any mans judgement that so great a man , as pet. de alliaco was in that church , should speak thus if he did not see some errours in the doctrine of that church as well as the manners . to this you answer , that he speaks not of false doctrines taught by the roman church , but of schisms and heresies raised against the church ( not fostered by her ) in all parts of christendom . but i appeal to any indifferent reader of this testimony , whether he can conceive that the cardinal intended to acquit or accuse the roman church in those words of his . for taking them in your sense , they must contain a high commendation of the roman church , that in the midst of so many heresies and schisms raised against her , she preserved her faith entire ; and think you that he that said , the church of god needed reformation , thought there was nothing in the church which stood in need of it ? and therefore this testimony doth sufficiently prove that the roman church was a tainted and corrupted church . if there be sufficient evidence , that there are tares sown in the church of rome , it is not to much purpose to enquire whether they were sown while the bishops slept , or whether they themselves did not help to sow them . but it seems in their private capacities they might sow them , as private doctors , and then it is not likely that in their publick capacity they would pluck them up . if the catholick faith only , as you tell us , oblige us to maintain that the pope is infallible when he defines a general council ; then there will be opportunity enough for errours to be sown , and grow up in the interval of such definitions . but you further add , that though this be all which men are obliged to maintain ( for no man can be bound to impossibilities ) yet that it is a very pious opinion to hold , that no popes have personally erred as private doctors , i. e. you have a very good mind to maintain it , if you knew how ; for that is the meaning of your pious opinion . for if you thought it had been defensible , no doubt it had been de fide long ago . but it was hard thwarting the records of former ages wherein the errours of popes , and their mutual contradictions are so visible to all that search after them , and therefore it was wisely concluded that this should not be held de fide , but , if any would venture upon a thing so acceptable at rome as personal infallibility is , it should be accounted a very pious undertaking . and accordingly bellarmin hath with the greatest care and industry endeavoured it in several chapters ; but , as his lordship truly saith , all bellarmin's labour though great and full of art , is not able to wash them clean . and this ( if you had undertaken the defence of bellarmin ) should have been made good ; but since you are so cautious as not to think your self obliged to do it , i commend your discretion in it , and proceed . i cannot see that his lordship is guilty of a false quotation of bellarmin for that saying , et papas quosdam graves errores seminâsse in ecclesiâ christi , luce clarius est , for he doth not seem at all to cite bellarmin for it ; but having cited the place just before , where he endeavours to vindicate the popes from all errours ; he adds this expression , as directly contrary to his design , that though he had endeavoured so much to clear them from errours , yet that they had sown some grievous errours in the church was as clear as the day ; and as it immediately follows is proved by jac. almain , &c. and therefore it was only your own oscitancy which made you set it in the contents of your chapter , that cardinal bellarmin was most falsly quoted by him . but that falseness which with so much confidence you charge his lordship with , rebounds with greater force on your self , when you say , that almain speaks not of errours in faith at all , but only of errours , or rather abuses in point of manners ; whereas he not only asserts but largely proves , that the pope may err , not only personally but judicially , and in the same chapter brings that remarkable instance of the evident contradiction between the definitions of pope nicolaus . and john . and platina tells us , that john . declared them to be hereticks who held according to the former definition . and , is this only concerning some abuses abuses in point of manners , and not concerning errours in faith that almain speaks ? you might as well say so of lyra , who said , that many popes have apostatized from the faith ; of cusanus , who saith , that both in a direct and collateral line , several popes have fallen into heresie ; of alphonsus à castro , who saith , that the best friends of the popes believe they may err in faith ; of carranza , who sayes , no one questions but the pope may be an heretick ; of canus , who sayes , it is not to be denyed but that the chief bishop may be an heretick , and that there are examples of it : you might as well , i say , affirm that all these spake only of abuses in manners , and not errours in faith , as you do of almain . neither will your other subterfuge serve your turn , that they taught errours in doctrine as private men ; for , alphonsus à castro expresly affirms in the case of pope coelestine , about the dissolution of marriage in case of heresie , that it cannot be said that he erred through negligence , and as a private person , and not as pope ; for ( saith he ) this definition is extant in the decretals , and he had seen it himself . although the contrary to this were afterwards defined not only by pope innocent . but by the council of trent . and hence it appears whatever you pretend to the contrary , that there may be tares sown in the church of rome , not only by private persons , but by the publick hands of the popes too , if they themselves may be believed , who else do most infallibly contradict each other . but whether these errours came in at first through negligence or publick definitions is not so material to our purpose ; for which it is sufficient to prove that the church of rome may be tainted and corrupted , which may be done one way as well as the other . as corn-fields may be over-run with tares though no one went purposely to sow them there . and so much is acknowledged by cassander when he speaks of the superstitious practises used in your church , that those who should have redressed those abuses , were , if not the authours , yet the incouragers of them for their own advantage ; by which means , errours and corruptions may soon grow to a great height in a church though they were never sown by publick definitions . and when you disparage cassanders testimony , by telling us how little his credit is among catholicks , you thereby let us see how much your church is over-run with corruptions , when none among you can speak against them but they presently forfeit their reputation . the case of the schism at rome between cornelius and novatianus , and the imployment of caldonius and fortunatus from st. cyprian thither , doth belong to the former chapter , where it hath been fully discoursed of already , and must not be repeated here . only thence we see that rome is as capable of a schism within her own bowels as any other church is , which is abundantly attested by the multitudes of schisms , which happened afterwards between the bishops of that see. but this being insisted on by his lordship in the former controversie of the catholick church , doth not refer to this chapter wherein the causes of our separation should be enquired into . which at last you come to , and passing by the verbal dispute between a.c. and his lordship about what was spoken at the conference , you tell us , it more concerns you to see what could or can be said in this point . you draw up therefore a large and formal charge of schism against us in your following words . our assertion , say you , is ; but , good sir , it is not what you assert , but what you prove . it were an easie matter for us to draw up a far larger bill against your church , and tell you our assertion is , that you are the greatest schismaticks in the world . would you look on it as sufficiently proved because we asserted it ? i pray think the same of us , for we are not apt to think our selves guilty of schism at all the more , because you tell us what your assertion is ; if this be your way of dealing with us , your first assertion had need be , that you are infallible ; but still that had need be more then asserted , for unless it be infallibly proved we should not believe it . but however , we must see what your assertion is , that we may at least understand from you the state of the present controversie . your assertion therefore is , that protestants made this rent or schism , by their obstinate and pertinacious maintaining erroneous doctrines , contrary to the faith of the roman or catholick church : by their rejecting the authority of their lawful ecclesiastical superiours both immediate and mediate ; by aggregating themselves into a separate body or company of pretended christians , independent of any pastours at all , that were in lawful and quiet possession of jurisdiction over them ; by making themselves pastours and teachers of others , and administring sacraments without authority given them by any that were lawfully impower●d to give it ; by instituting new rites and ceremonies of their own in matter of religion , contrary to those anciently received throughout all christendome ; by violently excluding and dispossessing other prelates and pastours of and from their respective see's , cures , and benefices ; and intruding themselves into their places in every nation where they could get footing , the said prelates and pastours for the most part yet living . these are your assertions , and because you seek not to prove them it shall be sufficient to oppose ours to them . our assertion therefore is , that the church and court of rome are guilty of this schism , by obtruding erroneous doctrines and superstitious practises , as the conditions of her communion ; by adding such articles of faith which are contrary to the plain rule of faith , and repugnant to the sense of the truly catholick and not the roman church ; by her intolerable incroachments and usurpations upon the liberties and priviledges of particular churches , under a vain pretence of vniversal pastourship ; by forcing men if they would not damn their souls by sinning against their consciences in approving the errours and corruptions of the roman church , to joyn together for the solemn worship of god according to the rule of scripture and practise of the primitive church ; and suspending communion with that church till those abuses and corruptions be redressed . in which they neither deny obedience to any lawful authority over them , nor take to themselves any other power than the law of god hath given them , receiving their authority in a constant succession from the apostles : they institute no rites and ceremonies either contrary to , or different from the practise of the primitive church ; they neither exclude or dispossess others of their lawful power , but in case others neglect their office , they may be notwithstanding obliged to perform theirs in order to the churches reformation . leaving the supreme authority of the kingdome or nation to order and dispose of such things in the church which of right appertain unto it . and this we assert to be the case of schism , in reference to the church of england , which we shall make good in opposition to your assertions , where we meet with any thing that seems to contradict the whole or any part of it . these and the like practises of yours ( to use your own words ) not any obstinate maintaining any erroneous doctrines , as you vainly pretend , we averre to have been the true and real causes of that separation which is made between your church and ours . and you truly say , that protestants were thrust out of your church ; which is an argument they did not voluntarily forsake the communion of it , and therefore are no schismaticks ; but your carriage and practises were such as forced them to joyn together in a distinct communion from you . and it was not we who left your church , but your church that left her primitive faith and purity in so high a manner , as to declare all such excommunicate who will not approve of and joyn in her greatest corruptions , though it be sufficiently manifest that they are great recessions from the faith , piety , and purity of that roman church which was planted by the apostles , and had so large a commendation from the apostolical men of those first ages . since then such errours and corruptions are enforced upon us as conditions of communion with you , by the same reason that the orthodox did very well in departing from the arrians , because the arrians were already departed from the church by their false doctrine ; will our separation from you be justified who first departed from the faith and purity of the primitive church ; and not only so , but thrust out of your communion all such as would not depart from it as farr as you . having thus considered and retorted your assertions , we come to your answers . nor ( say you ) does the bishop vindicate the protestant party , by saying , the cause of schism was ours , and that we catholicks thrust protestants from us , because they call'd for truth and redress of abuses . for first , there can be no just cause of schism ; this hath been granted already even by protestants . and so it is by us , and the reason is very evident for it , for if there be a just cause , there can be no schism ; and therefore what you intend by this , i cannot imagine , unless it be to free protestants from the guilt of schism , because they put the main of their tryal upon the justice of the cause which moved them to forsake the communion of your church ; or else you would have it taken for granted that ours was a schism , and thence inferr there could be no just cause of it . as if a man being accused for taking away the life of one who violently set upon him in the high-way with an intent both to rob and destroy him , should plead for himself that this could be no murther in him , because there was a sufficient and justifiable cause for what he did ; that he designed nothing but to go quietly on his road ; that this person and several others violently set upon him ; that he intreated them to desist , that he sought to avoid them as much as he could , but when he saw they were absolutely bent on his ruine , he was forced in his own necessary defence to take away the life of that person ; would not this with any intelligent jury be looked on as a just and reasonable vindication ? but if so wise a person as your self had been among them , you would no doubt have better informed them ; for you would very gravely have told them , all his plea went on a false supposition , that he had a just cause for what he did , but there could be no just cause for murther . do you not see now how subtil and pertinent your answer is here , by this parallel to it ? for as in that case all men grant that there can be no just cause for murther , because all murther is committed without a just cause ; and if there be one , it ceaseth to be murther : so it is here in schism , which being a causeless separation from the churches vnity , i wonder who ever imagined there could be just cause for it . but to rectifie such gross mistakes as these are for the future , you would do well to understand that schism formally taken alwayes imports something criminal in it , and there can be no just cause for a sin ; but besides that , there is that which ( if you understand it ) you would call the materiality of it which is the separation of one part of the church from another . now this , according to the different grounds and reasons of it , becomes lawful or unlawful , that is , as the reasons do make it necessary or unnecessary , for separation is not lawful but when it is necessary : now this being capable of such a different nature that it may be good or evil according to its circumstances , there can be no absolute judgement passed upon it , till all those reasons and circumstances be duely examined ; and if there be no sufficient grounds for it , then it is formally schism , i. e. a culpable separation ; if there be sufficient cause , then there may be a separation , but it can be no schism . and because the vnion of the catholick church lyes in fundamental and necessary truths , therefore there can be no separation absolutely from the catholick church but what involves in it the formal guilt of schism ; it being impossible any person should have just cause to disown the churches communion for any thing whose belief is necessary to salvation . and whosoever doth so , thereby makes himself no member of the church , because the church subsists on the belief of fundamental truths . but in all such cases wherein a division may be made , and yet the several persons divided retain the essentials of a christian church , the separation which may be among any such , must be determined according to the causes of it . for it being possible of one side , that men may out of capricious humours and fancies renounce the communion of a church which requires nothing but what is just and reasonable ; and it being possible on the other side , that a church calling her self catholick may so far degenerate in faith and practise , as not only to be guilty of great errours and corruptions , but to impose them as conditions of communion with her , it is necessary where there is a manifest separation to enquire into the reasons and grounds of it ; and to determine the nature of it according to the justice of the cause which is pleaded for it . and this i hope may help you a little better to understand , what is meant by such , who say , there can be no just cause of schism ; and how little this makes for your purpose . but you go on and i must follow . and to his calling for truth , &c. i answer , what hereticks ever yet forsook the church of god , but pretended truth , and complain'd they were thrust out , and hardly dealt with , meerly because they call'd for truth and redress of abuses ? and i pray , what church was ever so guilty of errours and corruptions , but would call those hereticks and schismaticks who found fault with her doctrine , or separated from her communion ? it is true , hereticks pretend truth , and schismaticks abuses , but is it possible there should be errours and corruptions in a churches communion , or is it not ? if not , prove but that of your church , and the cause is at an end ; if it be , we are to examine whether the charge be true or no. for although hereticks may pretend truth , and others be deceived in judging of it , yet doubtless there is a real difference between truth and errour . if you would never have men quarrel with any doctrine of your church because hereticks have pretended truth : would not the same reason hold , why men should never enquire after truth , reason , or religion , because men have pretended to them all which have not had them . it is therefore a most senseless cavil to say we have no reason to call for truth because hereticks have done so ; and on the same grounds you must not be call'd catholicks because hereticks have been call'd so . but those who have been hereticks were first proved to be so , by making it appear that was a certain truth which they denyed ; do you the same by us ; prove those which we call errours in your church to be part of the catholick and apostolick faith ; prove those we account corruptions , to be parts of divine worship , and we will give you leave to call us hereticks and schismaticks , but not before . but , say you , he should have reflected that the church of god is stiled a city of truth by the prophet , ( and so it may be , and yet your church be a fortress of errour ) and a pillar and foundation of truth by the apostle , ( but what is this to the church of romes being so ) and by the fathers , a rich depository or treasury of all divine and heavenly doctrines ( so it was in the sense the fathers took the church in , for the truly catholick christian church ) . and we may use the same expressions still of the church as the prophets , apostles , and fathers did , and nevertheless charge your church justly with the want of truth , and opposition to the preaching of it , and on that ground justly forsake her communion , which is so far from being inexcusable impiety and presumption , that it was only the performance of a necessary christian duty . and therefore that woe of scandal , his lordship mentioned , still returns upon your party who gave such just cause of offence to the christian world , and making it necessary for all such as aimed at the purity of the christian church to leave your communion , when it could not be enjoyed without making shipwrack both of faith and a good conscience . and this is so clear and undeniable ( to follow you still in your own language ) that we dare appeal for a tryal of our cause to any assembly of learned divines , or what judge and jury you please , provided they be not some of the parties accused ; and because you are so willing to have learned divines , i hope you will believe the last pope innocent so far , as not to mention the pope and cardinals . what follows in vindication of a. c. from enterfeiring and shuffling in his words , because timorous and tender consciences think they can never speak with caution enough , for fear of telling a lye , will have the force of a demonstration , ( being spoken of and by a jesuite ) among all those who know what mortal haters they are of any thing that looks like a lye or aequivocation : and what reason there is that , of all persons in the world , they should be judged men of timorous and tender consciences . but whatever the words were which passed , you justifie a. c. in saying , that the protestants did depart from the church of rome , and got the name of protestants by protesting against her . for this ( say you ) is so apparent that the whole world acknowledgeth it . if you mean that the communion of protestants is distinct from yours , whoever made scruple of confessing it ? but because in those terms of departing , leaving , forsaking your communion , you would seem to imply that it was a voluntary act and done without any necessary cause enforcing it , therefore his lordship denyes that protestants did depart ; for , saith he , departure is voluntary so was not theirs . but because it is so hard a matter to explain the nature of that separation between your church and ours , especially in the beginning of it , without using those terms or some like them , as when his lordship saith , that luther made a breach from it . it is sufficient , that we declare that by none of these expressions we mean any causeless separation , but only such acts as were necessarily consequential to the imposing your errours and corruptions as conditions of communion with your church . to the latter part his lordship answers , that the protestants did not get that name , by protesting against the church of rome , but by protesting ( and that when nothing else would serve ) against her errours and superstitions . do you but remove them from the church of rome , & our protestation is ended and our separation too . this , you think , will be answered with our old put off , that it is the common pretext of all hereticks , when they sever themselves from the roman - catholick church . if your church indeed were what she is not , the catholick church , we might be what we are not , hereticks : but think it not enough to prove us hereticks , that you call us so , unless you will likewise take it for granted , that the pope is antichrist , and your church , the whore of babylon , because they are as often , and as confidently call'd so . and if your church be truly so ( as she is shrewdly suspected to be ) do you think she , and all her followers , would not as confidently call such as dissented from her , hereticks , and the using those expressions of her virulent execrations against her , as you do now , supposing her not to be so . what therefore would belong to your church , supposing her as bad as any protestants imagine her to be , cannot certainly help to perswade us , that she is not so bad as she is . when you say still , that protestants did really depart from the roman church , and in so doing , remained separate from the whole church ; you very fairly beg the thing in dispute , and think us uncivil for denying it . you know not what that passage means , that the protestants did not voluntarily depart , taking their whole body and cause together , since there is no obscurity in the expression , but a defect elsewhere , i can only say , that his lordship was not bound to find you an vnderstanding as oft as you want it . but it were an easie matter to help you ; for it is plain , that he speaks those words to distinguish the common cause of protestants , from the heats and irregularities of some particular persons , whom he did not intend to justifie , such as he saith , were either peevish , or ignorantly zealous . and if you distinguish the sense of your church from the judgements of particular persons , i hope it may be as lawful for us to distinguish the body and cause of protestants from the inconsiderate actings of any particular men . all that which follows about the name of protestants , which his lordship saith , took its rise , not from protesting simply against the roman church , but against the edict at worms , which was for the restoring all things to their former state , without any reformation , is so plain and evident , that nothing but a mind to cavil , and to give us the same things over and over , could have made you stay longer upon it . for what else means , your talk of innovation in matters of religion ( which we say , was caused by you ) and protesting against the roman church , and consequently against all particular visible churches in the world , and that which none but hereticks and schismaticks used to do ? do you think these passages are so hard , that we cannot know what they mean , unless we have them so often over ? but they are not so hard to be understood , as to be believed , and that the rather , because we see you had rather say them often , than prove them once . if the popes professed reformation necessary as to many abuses , i hope they are not all schismaticks who call for the redress of abuses in your church . but , if all the reformation we are to expect of them , be that , which you say , was effectually ordained by the council of trent , if there had not been an edict at worms , there were the decrees of that council which would have made a protestation necessary . although we think your church needs reformation in manners and discipline , as much as any in the world , yet those are not the abuses mainly insisted on by the protestants , as the grounds of their separation , and therefore his lordship ought to be understood , of a reformation as to the errours and corruptions of the roman church ; and doubtless that edict of worms which was for the restoring all things to their former state , did cut off all hopes of any such reformation as was necessary for the protestants to return to the roman communion . and whatever you say , till you have proved the contrary better than as yet it is done , it will appear , that they are the protestants who stand for the ancient and undefiled doctrine of the catholick church , against the novel and corrupt tenets of the roman church . and such kind of protestation no true christian , who measures his being catholick , by better grounds than communion with the church of rome , will ever have cause to be ashamed of . but a. c. ( saith his lordship ) goes on , and will needs have it , that the protestants were the cause of the schism . for , ( saith he ) though the church of rome did thrust them from her by excommunication , yet they had first divided themselves by obstinate holding and teaching opinions contrary to the roman faith , and practice of the church , which to do , s. bernard thinks , is pride , s. austin , madness . at this his lordship takes many and just exceptions . . that holding and teaching was not the prime cause neither , but the corruptions and superstitions of rome , which forced many men to hold and teach the contrary . so the prime cause was theirs still . now to this your answer is very considerable . that the bishop of rome being s. peter 's successor in the government of the church , and infallible ( at least with a general council ) it is impossible , that protestants , or other sectaries , should ever find such errours or corruptions difinitively taught by him , or received by the church , as should either warrant them to preach against her doctrine , or lawfully to forsake her communion . we say , your church hath erred ; you say , it is impossible she should ; we offer you evident proofs of her errours ; you say , she is infallible ; we say , it is impossible , that church should be infallible , which we can make appear hath been deceived ; you tell us again , it is impossible she should be deceived ; for , let hereticks say what they will , she is infallible . and if this be not a satisfactory way of answering , let the world judge . but having already pulled down that babel of infallibility , this answer falls to the ground with it ; and to use your phrase , the truth is , all that you have in effect to say for your church , is , that she is infallible , and the catholick church , and by this means you think to cast the schism upon us ; and these things are great enough indeed , if you could but make any shew of proof for them ; but not being able to do that , you do in effect as much as if a man in a high feaver should go about to demonstrate it was impossible for him to be sick , which , the more he takes pains to do , the more evident his distemper is to all who hear him . and it is shrewdly to be suspected , if your errours had not been great and palpable , you would have contented your selves with some thing short of infallibility . but as the case is with your church , i must confess it is your greatest wisdom to talk most of infallibility ; for if you can but meet with any weak enough to swallow that , all other things go down without dispute ; but if men are left at liberty to examine particulars , they would as soon believe it was impossible for that man to fall , whom they see upon the ground , as your church to be infallible , which they find overspread with errour and corruptions . much such another answer you return to his lordship's second exception , which is , at his calling the christian faith the roman faith : for , you say , it is no incongruity so to call it , for the bishop of rome being head of the whole christian or catholick church , the faith approved and taught by him as head thereof , though it be de facto the general faith and profession of all christians , may yet very well be called the roman faith ; why ? because the root , origine , and chief foundation under christ , of its being practised and believed by christians is at rome . but if the bishop of rome be no such thing as head of the christian church ( and they must have a very wide faith , which must swallow that vniversal headship , with all the appurtenances upon your bare affirmation ) if it belongs no more to him to approve and teach the faith then to any other catholick bishop , if the coming from rome affords no credibility at all to the christian faith ; then still there remains as great an incongruity as may be , in calling the christian faith , the roman faith. and as to all these my denial is as good as your affirmation ; when you undertake to prove , i shall to answer . if a. c. adds the practice of the church to the roman faith , i see no advantage is gotten by it , for the first must limit the latter , and the faith being roman , the church must be so too , and therefore all your cavils on that subject come to nothing . the third exception is , against the place out of s. bernard , and s. austin , which , his lordship saith , are mis-applied ; for neither of them ( saith he ) spake of the roman ; and s. bernard perhaps neither of the catholick , nor the roman , but of a particular church or congregation . his words are , what greater pride , than that one man should prefer his judgement before the whole congregation . which a. c. conveniently to his purpose rendred before the whole congregation of all the christian churches in the world . whereas no such thing is in him as all the christian churches in the world . and his lordship saith , he thinks it is plain , that he speaks both of , and to the particular congregation , to which he was then preaching . this you deny not , but say , the argument holds â minori ad majus , to shew the more exorbitant pride of those , who prefer their private fanatick opinions , before the judgement of the whole catholick church . the roman church you should have said ▪ for you own no catholick church , but what is roman , and therein the argument you mention will hold yet further , against those who prefer the novel opinions of the roman church , before the ancient apostolical faith of the truly catholick church . his lordship adds , that it is one thing to prefer a mans private judgement before the whole congregation ; and another , for an intelligent man in something unsatisfied , modestly to propose his doubts even to the catholick church . and much more may a whole national church , nay , the whole body of protestants do it . now you very wisely leave out this last clause , that you might take an opportunity to declaim against luther , zuinglius , calvin , &c. for want of modesty . but what pretext could there have been for such virulency , had they been guilty of what you charge them , if you would but have given us all that his lordship said ; and may not i now therefore more justly return you your own language in the same page upon a far less occasion . that here 's a manifest robbery of part of his lordships words , for which you are bound to restitution . for his lordship , as it were , foreseeing this cavil , warily adds that concerning a whole national church , and the whole body of protestants ; which you for reasons best known to your self , craftily leave out . but we must excuse our adversary for this slip , though it be an unhandsome one ; for the truth is , he had no other way to hide the guiltiness of his own pen , &c. these are your own words only applied , and that much more justly to your self , for a more palpable fault in the very same page wherein you had accused his lordship for one of that kind . but you go on further , and supposing the doubts had been modestly proposed , yet this could not at all help the protestant cause , in regard their doubts were in points of faith , already determined for such by authority of the catholick church ; to question any of which with what seeming modesty soever is sinful , heretical , and damnable . were it our present business , it were easie to make it appear , that the far greatest part of the matters in controversie ; were never determined as points of faith , before the council of trent , and , i hope you will not say , that was before the reformation , or any proposal of doubts ? but , if they had been defined by your church for matters of faith , and our great doubt be , how your church comes to have this power of determining points of faith , to whom should this doubt be propounded ? to your church , no doubt then we should hear from her , as now we do from you , that to question it with what seeming modesty soever , is sinful , heretical , ond damnable . and , is it not then likely that your church should ever yield to the proposal of doubts ? and you do well to tell us so ; for it will save protestants a great deal of labour , when they see your church so incurable , that she makes it sinful , heretical , and damnable , to question any thing she hath determined . although we do with much more reason assert it to be sinful , heretical , and damnable in your church , to offer to obtrude erroneous doctrines on the faith of the christian world , as points necessary to be believed , and to urge superstitious practices as the conditions of communion with her . to the place of s. austin , wherein he saith , that it is a part of most insolent madness , for any man to dispute , whether that be to be done , which is usually done in and through the whole catholick church of christ. his lordship answer , . here 's not a word of the roman church , but of that which is all over the world , catholick , which rome never yet was ; and for all your boast of having often shewn , that the roman and the catholick are all one ; i dare leave it to the indifferent reader , whether you have not miserably failed in your attempts that way . . he answers , that a. c. applies this to the roman faith , whereas s. austin speaks expresly of the rites and ceremonies of the church , and particularly about the manner of offering upon maundy-thursday , whether it be in the morning , or after supper , or both . . t is manifest by the words themselves , that s. austin speaks of no matter of faith there , roman , nor catholick , for he speaks of things done , and to be done , and not for things believed , or to be believed . . a right sober man may , without the least touch of insolency or madness , dispute a business of religion with the roman , either church or prelate , as all men know irenaeus did with victor . now to all this you reply , that the argument still holds à minori ad majus , and reaches to every person that in any matter whatsoever obstinately opposes himself against the church of god. and is not this an excellent way of arguing from the less to the greater , to argue from a rite or ceremony observed by the universal church to a matter of faith determined by the roman church ? this is à minori ad majus , with a witness . but your reason is as good as your answer , which is , because there was alwaies some point or matter of faith involved in every vniversally practised rite or ceremony of the church , i pray sir then , tell us what the matter of faith was which lay in the offering on maundy-thursday in morning , or after supper ? and by whom this point of faith was determined ? and and how far it is obligatory ? and whether it be not sinful , heretical , and damnable , so much as modestly to doubt of it ? for all this , you told us , belongs to all matters of faith determined by the catholick church . what remains of this chapter , need not hold us long , for c's . illation from the catholick churches not erring , that therefore it cannot be lawful to separate from the roman church , is absurd and illogical ; and depends on that gross mistake that the roman and catholick church are all one , which we have abundantly disproved in the precedent chapter . what follows concerning the catholick churches not erring , and how far that extends , concerning the catalogue of fundamentals , and any errours admitted in the church , being destructive to its being , because derogatory to gods veracity , have been so amply discussed in their proper places , that i find no temptation from any new arguments here suggested , to resume the debate of them . there being then nothing material , which hath not been handled already ; i here conclude this chapter . chap. iii. of keeping faith with hereticks . the occasion of this dispute . the reason why this doctrine is not commonly defended : yet all own such principles from whence it necessarily follows . the matter of fact as to the council of constance ; and john hus opened . of the nature of the safe-conduct granted him by the emperour , that it was not a general one , salvâ justitiâ , but particular , jure speciali ; which is largely proved . the particulars concerning hierom of prague . of the safe-conduct granted by the council of trent . of the distinction of secular and ecclesiastical power , and that from thence it follows , that faith is not to be kept with hereticks . simancha , and several others fully assert this doctrine . of the invitation to the council of trent , and the good instructions there ; and of publick disputation . a. c's endeavour not only to charge protestants with the guilt of schism , but to justifie and clear the proceedings of the church of rome towards them , hath led us into a new dispute , how far she is to be trusted in the greatest promises which are made to such whom she accounts hereticks . which is occasioned by these words of his , that after this breach was made , the church of rome was so kind and careful to seek the protestants , that she invited them publickly with safe conduct to rome , to a general council , freely to speak what they could for themselves : or , if we take his words , as you give them us , the sense is the same to our purpose ( and therefore you impertinently cavil with his lordship for not keeping faith with a.c. ) which did at first seek to recall them from their novel opinions , and after their breach did permit , yea invite them publickly to rome to a general council , &c. upon which his lordship sayes : indeed i think the church of rome did carefully seek the protestants ; but i doubt it was to bring them within their net . and she invited them to rome . a very safe place , if you mark it , for them to come to , just as the lion ( in the apologue ) invited the fox to his own den. yea , but there was safe-conduct offered too : yes , conduct perhaps , but not safe , or safe perhaps , for going thither , but none for coming thence . vestigia nulla retrorsum . yea , but it should have been to a general council : perhaps so . but was the conduct safe , that was given to a council which they call general , to some others before them ? no sure , john hus , and jerom of prague burnt for all their safe conduct . and so long as the jesuits write and maintain . that faith given is not to be kept with hereticks . and the church of rome leaves this lewd doctrine uncensured ( as it hath hitherto done , and no exception put in of force and violence . ) a. c. shall pardon us , that we come not to rome , nor within the reach of roman power , what freedom of speech soever he promised us . for to what end freedom of speech on their part , since they are resolved to alter nothing ? and to what end freedom of speech on our part , if after speech hath been free , life shall not . this you call a theme , which , for the most part , our adversaries love to dwell upon , as thinking they have some great advantage against us therein . and , can you blame them for insisting much on that which their lives are concerned in , and it will appear in the prosecution of this subject , that we have this great advantage against you , that we are come to understand your arts so well , as not so easily to be catched by your perfidious subtilties . and as we understand your practices better than to rely on your promises of this nature , so we are not so ignorant of the intrigues of your proceedings , as to suppose that commonly and openly you should defend this position , that faith is not to be kept with hereticks . for thereby you would lose the intent and design of it ; for none would be so silly as to venture themselves into the hands of such , who openly profess , they are not bound to keep faith with them . for , do you think that father fulgentio would ever have gone to rome on the safe-conduct most solemnly given by paul. . if he had understood beforehand , with what perfidiousness he should have been dealt with there ; and all under this pretext , that safe-conduct was given for his coming hither , but not for his going thence . is this the faith of the apostolical see ? is this the catholick and roman faith ? if so , the roman faith , before ever it was christian , was much more infallible ▪ than this ; that never was acquainted with such a perfidious infallibility . well then might his lordship say , the conduct might be safe for going thither , but not for coming thence . vestigia nulla retrorsum . and so fulgentio to his sorrow found it . we see therefore , it is very necessary for you to disown this principle as much as possible , till you have occasion to practise it , and then woe be to them to whose lot it falls to make the experiment . though therefore both publickly and privately , in word and writing , as you tell us , you teach and profess , that faith is to be kept as well with hereticks as catholicks , yet your adversaries have no great reason to reply on your promises ; when they find your practices apparently to the contrary , and those practices built on such principles which you all own , and contend for , and that notwithstanding , what you confidently say to the contrary , several of your writers have in terms asserted it . all which shall be made good in this chapter . and therefore , though you say it , and say it over again , those who know the ambiguity of your expressions , your many reservations , and exceptions which you make , will not be very confident of the honesty of your meaning , by the fairness of your expressions . these are therefore no clamorous accusations , but very sad truths , which the experience of the world , and your dealings have too often taught us ; that at last we are forced to distinguish between a princes safc-conduct , and an eccleastical trepan . for no other , will that appear to be , which was granted by pope paul to fulgentio , or the emperour , and council of constance to john hus , and hierom of prague . if christ therefore , after he had said , that they should give to caesar the things that are caesars , had either denied the payment of tribute , or demanded it himself , becanus might then say , that was a fit parallel for you in this controversie , whose open actions do palpably contradict you , when you say , that faith is to be kept with hereticks . for the clearing of which , we must first relate the matter of fact in the case of the council of constance , and then examine the several evasions you make in vindication of their proceedings , notwithstanding the safe-conduct given by the emperour and council . the story then is briefly this ; a council at constance being called for redressing abuses in the church , and putting an end to that schism , which was between the three antipopes gregory , benedict . , john . john husse is summoned by the emperour sigismund to appear before it . and to take away all fears and suspicions of unhandsome dealing , the emperour grants him a safe-conduct , in which it was expressed , omni prorsus impedimento remoto , transire , stare , morari , & redire libere permittatis ; that without all manner of hindrance , he should be suffered to come , appear , stay , and return freely . that such a safe-conduct was given by the emperour , and pleaded by husse , is agreed on all sides . but notwithstanding this , he had not been above three weeks in constance , but , contrary to his safe-conduct , he is thrown into prison ; which being done in the emperours absence , he returns to the council , and argues the case with them , upon which they pass the decree contained in the session of that council , in these words cited in the margent , which , that you may not quarrel with my interpretation of , i will take your own . this present sacred synod declareth , that by whatsoever safe-conduct , granted by the emperour , kings , or other secular princes , to hereticks , or such as are defamed for heresie , no prejudice can arise , no impediment can , or ought to be put to the catholick faith , or other ecclesiastical jurisdiction , but that ( notwithstanding the said safe-conduct ) it may be lawful for any competent and ecclesiastical judge to enquire into the errours of such persons , and duly otherwaies proceed against them , and punish them so far as justice shall require , if they shall pertinaciously refuse to revoke their errours ; yea though they come to the place of judgement , relying upon such safe-conduct , and would not otherwise come thither ; nor doth he who so promiseth , remain obliged in any thing , having done what lyes in him . upon this decree of the council the emperour looks on himself , as absolved from his obligation , and not only concurred in the sentence against husse , but gave order himself about his execution . the question then is , whether the emperour did not break his faith with john husse in so doing ; and , whether the council did not decree , that neither he , nor any else , were bound to keep it with hereticks . although this case be so plain and clear to all persons , who have any sense of justice and honesty , that we dare appeal to the most indifferent persons in the world , whether it be not a notorious violation of faith , after a most solemn promise of safe return , to proceed to judgement against the person , who came meerly relying on that promise , and the same person to be the instrument of his execution , who gave the safe-conduct on which he trusted : and whether the declaring , that such a person is not obliged to keep his promise , because it is a matter of heresie he had promised in , be not to declare , that no faith is to be kept with hereticks . yet since no actions are so bad , if they tend to your advantage , but you will have something to blind the eyes of the simple with , we must consider what you have to plead in vindication of these proceedings . you tell us then , that the emperour did not break his faith with john husse , and that notwithstanding the safe-conduct given , he was justly burnt . bold and daring assertions ! but we must enquire into the reasons of them . two things you seem most to rely on , and the strength of all your answer depends on them : which being the things , becanus , and the rest of your party insist on in this case , i shall more closely examine . the first is , from the nature of the safe-conduct given , that it was not such as could hinder justice ; the second is , from the difference of the secular and ecclesiastical power , and that the emperour could make no promise in prejudice of the churches jurisdiction . first , you distinguish of a safe-conduct , which , you say , may be granted two waies ; first , jure communi , when t is given only against unjust violence , salvâ semper justitiâ , provided alwaies that justice be not impeached : secondly , jure speciali , when it secures a man against all violence whatsoever , whether just or unjust , and chiefly in that cause for which it is given . in the former manner only , you say , a safe-conduct was granted by the emperour to john husse , and by the council of constance to hierom of prague : in the latter sort , the council of trent offered safe-conduct to the protestants in germany , &c. no faith therefore was broken with john husse ; for , a safe-conduct was only given him jure communi , by which justice was to remain unimpeachable , since he was only promised to be defended against unjust violence ; which was performed . i grant , a safe-conduct may be given two waies ; the first , is to secure men from all unjust violence , in order to a legal trial ; and this is granted in such cases , when the person accused looks on the law , as open for him as well as his adversaries , and puts himself on a fair tryal before equal and indifferent judges : and in such cases the intent of the safe-conduct is expressed , damus tibi fidem publicam causam dicendi in judicio contra vim , non contra juris executionem ; as the formula of it is in the roman empire , thence that imperial constitution , which prohibits that any safe-conduct be given to the accuser , or the guilty person adversus publicum judicium , sed solum contra vim , against publick justice , but only against violence : but then , these are the safe-conducts which subordinate officers can only grant ; because these have no power over the life of persons , but they are only to see justice duly administred to all persons , in order to which they may give such safe-conducts as may prevent such things , as may hinder the due execution of justice . but then further , a safe-conduct may be given with respect to those who are to judge of the cause , i. e. in case a person avoids appearance upon fears that the persons he is summoned before , will presently cast him into prison , or put him to death ; now , if a safe-conduct be granted by him , who hath the absolute power of life and liberty , so as to hinder the execution of any sentence passed , in this case the safe-conduct is full and absolute , and admits of no restrictions or limitations . now this latter is plainly our present case ; for john husse had been summoned before to appear at rome , to vindicate himself in point of heresie , but suspecting foul dealing , he durst not go : and , can we in reason think he would ever have gone to constance , if the emperour had not granted him such a conduct as might secure him from his fears , as to his life and liberty ? and therefore , since the emperour , to whom it only belonged to dispose of both , had granted him so express a safe-conduct , he thought he might securely go . for , to what end or purpose is a safe-conduct granted , if it be not to secure that which the person to whom it was given had most cause to fear ? now it is apparent , john husse was not afraid of any unjust violence by the way , for he was so secure as to that , that he left his safe-conduct in the hands of his friends , till he came at constance , as appears by the unquestionable reports of that story on all hands ; which is an evident argument , that the intent of the safe-conduct was to secure him at constance , from any injury being done him by the council . and although the council might take upon them , not only to judge of heresie , but to condemn him for it ; yet , as long as the execution of that sentence belonged to the secular power , he had reason to think , that whatever the council might determine , yet the emperours faith being solemnly given him , he need not fear the execution of it . for that being in the emperours power , he was bound by his publick faith not to give way to it . to make this clear by an instance ; it is more evident by our laws , that one who hath taken orders at rome , coming into the nation , and being convicted of it , is liable to death , than it was by the laws then in force , that such who were condemned for heresie , should be burnt ; suppose now , that a priest be summoned by the king to appear before his courts of justice , with a safe-conduct , or promise given , that he should come , appear , and return freely , without any hinderance ; would not you , or any other romish priest , think your selves hardly dealt with , and that the king had broken his faith , if he should not only suffer you to be condemned , but give express order for your execution ; and then tell you , that the safe-conduct was to be understood salvâ justitiâ , without any impeachment of justice , and that it was only to protect you from all unjust violence ? and , was not the case just the same here of the emperour sigismund , and john husse ? was john husse so ignorant , as not to know they would condemn him for heresie , when a council at rome had condemned him for it already ? or , did not he know what course was like to be taken with persons so condemned ? what could he then imagine to be the intent of this safe-conduct , but to secure him from all violence to be done to his person under a pretence of execution of justice ? and for all this , was not the emperours faith violated , when he was not only imprisoned , but burnt , by the emperours express order , notwithstanding his solemn promise that he should come , appear , and return freely , without any hinderance ? if this be a safe-conduct , it is only such a one as they that go to the gallows have , a safe-conduct to execution . besides , that this could not be such a safe-conduct , salvâ justitiá , as you speak of , is manifest from the tenor and words of it . for safe-conducts , being granted in favour of persons , are to be taken in their largest sense , if no limitations be expressed in them ; and it is a rule among those who should , and do understand these things best , that a safe-conduct is of the nature of a covenant , and the words of it import a promise , and therefore if they be general , are extended as far as the words will bear . and that all the doctors do unanimously concurr , that a general safe-conduct of coming to a judge , or appearing in a court of judicature , do import a freedom of departure and going thence . so that we see , if we take the emperours safe-conduct in the express words of it , it imports much more than such a one as is only salvâ justitiâ ; because it ran in the most general and comprehensive terms , and was granted not by any subordinate judge , but by the emperour himself , who was able , as well as bound , to make it good in the most large and extensive sense . but further , if this had been granted only salvâ justitiâ , so that the council had liberty to proceed on him as they saw good , what made the emperour take their imprisonment of him so ill , as nauclerus and others report he did , and that because of the safe-conduct he had given him ? it seems the emperour wanted becanus , and you , to have told him , that he never granted any safe-conduct , but what had the reservation of a salvâ justitiâ , and that such justice too , as his greatest enemy must shew him : if he had known this , he needed not have been troubled at that which he made account of , in granting the safe-conduct . lastly , what need the council have taken such pains to satisfie the emperour , by declaring in a decree , that neither he , nor any prince was bound by their safe-conducts , to hinder hereticks from being punished , if he had not thought himself obliged to do it , by the safe-conduct he had given ? and if he did think so before the decree of the council , then certainly there was no salvâ justitiâ understood by him in the safe-conduct he had granted . thus we see , how on all hands it appears , from husse's fears and desires , the emperours power , the nature of safe-conducts , the emperours own sense of it , and the councils decree , that this first answer hath no ground at all , viz. that the safe conduct was granted jure communi , and that it was only to hinder unjust violence , and not the execution of justice . but besides , you say , john husse was justly burnt , for two reasons : the first is , for being obstinate in his heresie ; the second , for having fled , which the emperour had prohibited in his safe-conduct , under pain of death . i answer , it is not , whether a man , obstinate in heresie , may be burnt , which is now the question , although that may justly bear a dispute too : but , whether one , suspected for heresie , and coming to a council with safe-conduct for coming and returning , may be burnt without violation of faith ; your first reason then , is nothing to the purpose , and your second as little : first , because there is no certain evidence at all of husse's flying ; it not being objected against him by the emperour , who only upbraided him with his obstinacy in his heresie , as the cause of his execution ; and withall , if husse had fled , and had suffered death for that , as you say he ought to have done , he would not have suffered the death proper to heresie , and not to flying ; nor been accounted ( as by all your own authours he is ) a sufferer on the account of heresie . but this being a groundless calumny , it needs no further confutation . but before we come to your second answer , the case of hierom of prague must be discussed so far as it is distinct from that of john husse ; who , it seems , was trepanned by a pretended safe-conduct granted him by the council , and not by the emperour , wherein , you tell us , that express clause of salvâ semper justitiâ was inserted ( which is another argument that the safe-conduct of the emperour to husse was of another nature , because it ran in general terms , without any such clause ) but poor hierom , who , it seems , was not acquainted with the arts and subtilties of his enemies , but thought them as honest as himself , ventures to constance upon this safe-conduct : but when he came thither , and began to understand the jugglings of his enemies , he thought to shift for himself by flight , but being taken , was burnt . so that hierom suffered through his honest simplicity and credulity , not considering what that salvâ justitiâ would mean in his case , which , as they interpreted it , was such another safe-conduct , as known malefactors have to the place of justice : but to call it a safe-conduct , in the sense which hierom apprehended it in , is as proper as to say , a man that is to be executed shall have a salvo for his life . this was therefore intended , as appears by the event , as a meer trick to bring him within their power ; and so all such safe-conducts granted with those clauses ( by such persons who are to interpret them themselves ) are , and nothing else : for they are the sole judges what this justice shall be , neither can you say then , that faith was kept with hierom of prague : for no such thing as a safe-conduct , truly so called , was intended him ; and when the emperour was sollicited to grant him one , he utterly denied it , because of the bad success he had in that of john husse ; and some of the council being then present with the emperour , offered to give him a safe-conduct , but they very honestly explained themselves , that it was a safe-conduct for coming thither , but not for going thence again . and so it proved . so that faith was well given to hierom of prague , and as well kept to john husse . but , say you , had the protestants gone to the council of trent , upon the safe-conduct granted them by that council jure speciali , in the second manner , they could not at all have been punished under any pretence of heresie , without manifest breach of faith ; which all catholicks hold to be unlawful . the like may be said of the safe-conduct offered them for going to rome . but you must better satisfie us , that you look upon this as a breach of faith , than as yet you have done . for so are your ambiguities , in your expressions of this nature , that men who know your arts , can hardly tell when they have your right meaning . for you may look on all breach of faith as unlawful , and yet not look on your acting contrary to your express words , in safe-conducts offered to hereticks , to be a breach of faith. for you may say , faith is there only broken , where men are bound to keep it ; but you are not bound to keep it with hereticks , and that because your obligation to the church is greater than it can be to hereticks ; when therefore you have hereticks in your power , it is an easie matter for you to say , that , were it in any thing else , but in a matter so nearly concerning the interest of your holy mother the church , you could not but observe it , but your obligation to that is so great , as destroies all other which are contrary to it : and the obligation being destroyed , there is no breach of faith at all ; and therefore you may hold all breach of faith unlawful , and yet you may proceed against those whom you account hereticks , contrary to all engagements whatsoever , and then say , this is no breach of faith. and the truth is , by your doctrines of aequivocations , and mental reservations , you have made all manner of converse in the world so lubricous and uncertain , that he who hath to deal with you , especially in matters where the interest of your church is concerned , had need be wary , and remember to distrust , or else he may repent it afterwards . if you therefore account the protestants crafty foxes , in not coming to rome , or the council of trent , it was , because they would not venture too near the lions den ; but if you will not account them wise men , for refusing so fair an offer , you will give us leave to think them so , till they see better reason to trust your offers . and the council of trent did very well to tell them in their form of safe-conduct , they would not do by them as the council of constance did , for therein they shew , how much the faith of councils was sunk by that , so that if that were not particularly excepted , no trust would ever be given to them more . but , supposing the safe-conduct of the council of trent to have been never so free from suspicion , the protestants had sufficient reasons not to appear there , as will be manifested afterwards . we come therefore now to your second answer , in vindication of the council of constance , which is this , that by that decree the council declares , that no secular power , how soveraign soever , can hinder the proceedings of the ecclesiastical tribunal in causes of heresie ; for which there is great reason ; and consequently , if the emperour , or any other secular prince , grants a safe-conduct , or makes promise of any thing to the prejudice of that jurisdiction , it shall not hold . the reason is , because 't is a promise made of a thing not pertaining to the jurisdiction of that prince , nor wholly in his power to see performed . to this i answer , . that if i understand any thing , this is expresly to say , that no prince is to keep faith with hereticks , and that is it which you are charged with ; and you made use of this distinction , to free your selves from . now that this is the plain meaning of it , thus appears ; you say in the words immediately after ; but the council no where teaches , that faith or safe-conduct given in temporal causes properly pertaining to the princes jurisdiction , is not to be kept by all , and to all persons of what condition soever , so far as it is possible . which is as much as to say , that in any other case but that of heresie , they are to keep faith , but not in that : for this of heresie , is that which you oppose to all temporal causes , and challenge it as belonging to an ecclesiastical tribunal ; when therefore the council of constance decrees , that no secular power is obliged by any safe-conduct , to any thing which may hinder the ecclesiastical tribunals proceeding in causes of heresie , what doth it else but declare in express terms , that faith is not to be kept with hereticks , i. e. in any thing relating to their heresie ; for this , you say , they have nothing to do with : and therefore let kings and princes make never so solemn promises and engagements to men suspected of heresie , to their peril be it , who rely upon them , for they have nothing to do to promise in such matters , and though their faith be given never so publickly and solemnly , they are not bound to keep it ; nay , they are bound not to keep it : for , if they should , it would be to the apparent mischief and prejudice of the church . this necessarily follows from your own words , and the distinction here used by you . so that now we need seek no further than your self , and becanus , for the open avowing of this principle , that no prince is bound to keep faith with hereticks ; but if he doth promise safe-conduct to them though it be more than he can do , yet the church can make that good use of it , that by that means she may get the hereticks under her power ; and when she hath them , it is but then declaring this promise to be null , and she may do with them as she pleases . neither is it only becanus , and you , who say this , but it is the received principle among you , whatever you say or pretend to the contrary ; i mean not , that you say in express terms , that faith is not to be kept with hereticks , but by this distinction of the secular and ecclesiastical power , as you use it , you say that from whence it necessarily follows . but yet i answer . though this distinction should be granted , yet it cannot really excuse the emperour from violating his faith. for , i say , he promised nothing but was in his power , which was , to secure him as to life and liberty . now , although the emperour had suffered the ecclesiastical tribunal , to do what belonged to it , which was to enquire into the charge of heresie , and to give sentence upon the person , yet the execution belonged wholly to the secular power ; as the council it self acknowledged , when after the sentence of heresie was pronounced against john husse , there was nothing of the executive part which was pleaded , as belonging to the church , but only degradation , and that was performed in the presence of the council ; upon which the sacred synod declares , that they had no more to do with him , but to deliver him over to the secular power , and accordingly decrees it to be done . now when the synod declares this , is it not plain , that what concerns his life , doth properly and only belong to the secular power ; if therefore the emperour was bound to do all which lay in him to do , he was effectually bound to secure him as to life and liberty , for both those lay within his power . and therefore , when he gave order for his execution , he was highly guilty of the violation of his faith ; and if the council of constance declared him absolved as to this too , it is yet more evident , that they not only decreed , that no faith was to be kept with hereticks in matters concerning the ecclesiastical tribunal , but in such as concerned the secular power , which is much as to say , not at all . and by this the vanity of this distinction of the secular and ecclesiastical power is sufficiently manifest , and that it evidently appears , that the council of constance did decree , that no faith was to be kept with hereticks . and thus i have proved , that his lordship hath not , as you calumniate him , ignorantly or maliciously wronged the council , but that no other tolerable sense , besides that which his lordship saith , can be made of the decree then passed ; and notwithstanding your arts and distinctions , nothing can be more plain , than that john husse was trepanned into his ruine by the faith of the emperour given to him . it can be therefore nothing but either palpable ignorance , or a deceit as gross as trusting your safe-conduct in a matter of heresie , for you so confidently to assert , that if the relator had not mangled the words of the council ( to deceive his reader ) but set down the decree fairly and fully as it is , the business had been so clear , that it would scarce have any dispute . whereas his lordship only sets down the title of the decree , and so he tells you himself , and this he doth as faithfully as may be , and whereas nothing can more evidence the juglings of the council , than the decree it self doth , in which nothing is more plain than that , in case of heresie , no prince is bound to keep faith with any persons whatsoever . from the council of constance , we proceed to other authors , to see , whether they do not concurr with it in this opinion . for this , his lordship cites simancha a spanish bishop , and a canonist as well as civilian , who expresly saith , that faith is not to be kept with hereticks , as neither with tyrants , pyrates , or other publick robbers ; and plainly justifies the proceedings of the council of constance in that respect , in that hereticks by their solemn judgement were burnt , although publick security had been given them . let us now see , what answer you return to these clear citations . in general you say , the bishop was insincere or unadvised in quoting this author . i wonder wherein : i am sure , not so much as you are in your answers to him . for , you say simancha holds not this absolutely and universally , but only in cases , wherein that which is promised cannot be lawfully performed . hence , say you , simancha hath these words , veruntamen ( ut marius salomonius ait ) promissa contra christum fides , si praestetur , perfidia est , if faith be given against christ , that is to the dishonour of god , or contrary to the precepts of true religion , it were perfidiousness to observe it . but the answer to this is easie : for it appears from simancha's own grounds , that he supposeth it holds universally , because faith can never be given to hereticks , so as that promise can be lawfully performed , because thereby he supposeth it given against christ , and to the dishonour of god , and therefore concludes , it would be perfidiousness to observe it . and this is evident from simancha's own grounds , which he gives for it . for , saith he , if faith be not kept with tyrants , pirats , and other robbers , which kill the body ; much less with hereticks , who destroy souls : which reason being absolute and universal , his proposition must be so too . and very consonantly to his former assertions concludes , that if faith be given them with an oath , against the publick good , against the salvation of souls , against divine and humane laws , it is not to be kept ; and it is well known that all heresies are accounted so by you , and therefore in no case faith is to be kept with hereticks . neither can this possibly be understood meerly of private persons ; for his words are general , and we see he vindicates the proceedings of the council at constance upon these grounds , and he quotes marius salomonius and placa , who likewise assert in terms , that faith given to hereticks is not to be kept , and makes use of the instance of the council of constance to prove it . and menochius , whom simancha likewise cites , who was an italian canonist , and therefore might well know the practices of rome in these cases , saith , that placa expresly holds , that faith is not to be kept with hereticks , which , he saith , he understands so , when faith is given to the injury of the catholick faith : and cites conradus brunus to this purpose , that it is not lawful to make such agreements with hereticks , that they may enjoy the liberty of their own sect . if therefore they must interpret , how far the faith given tends to the prejudice of the catholick faith , we see , how little security can be had from any solemn promise . and menochius himself asserts the safe-conduct granted by princes , in case of heresie to be unlawful , because the inferiour ( as he supposes princes to be to the ecclesiastical tribunal ) cannot secure them who are condemned by the superiour , and because kings and emperours ought rather to destroy hereticks , than to secure them . and therefore the council of constance did well in nulling the safe-conducts granted to hereticks . and what now is this , but in plain terms to assert , that faith is not to be kept with hereticks ? neither can you say , as some do , that they are the canonists , and not the church of rome , which assert this : for , besides that the canonists understand well enough the intrigues and proceedings of the court of rome , although it seems they do not conceal them so much as they should do , yet they are not only these who have asserted it , but some great men of your church , have , upon occasion , expresly said it ; for we are not to expect that this should be avowed as a publick opinion of your church , for that were to make it unserviceable to you ; but when you have those whom you call hereticks at an advantage , then is the time to discover this . so there wanted not some to perswade charls the fifth , notwithstanding the safe-conduct given to luther at his coming to worms , to deal by him as the council of constance had done by john husse , and that upon this very account , that no faith was to be kept with hereticks : but the emperour , and the princes about him , were persons of too great honour and honesty to hearken to such perfidious councils . and no meaner a person than cardinal hosius , admonishes henry king of poland , that he ought not to keep the faith he had given to the protestants , and gives this reason for it , that an oath ought to not be the bond of iniquity . and the jesuit possevin is reported to have given the same counsel afterwards to stephen king of poland . but these things are , as much as possible , kept from our view , and the books containing such doctrines in them , are like the golden legends bought up by themselves to prevent our discovery of their frauds and imposture ; and therefore if we cannot instance in those jesuits , who have expresly taught this opinion in print , yet that only argues the greater fraud and subtilty of them , who will own and practise such things , which they dare not publickly avow to the world . and yet it appears from the way used by becanus , and you , in vindication of your selves , that you cannot possibly avoid , the asserting such things from whence it necessarily follows , that faith is not to be kept with hereticks . but because the doctrine it self is grown a matter so odious to the world , being contrary to all principles of humanity and justice , and which , if practised by all those who call each other hereticks , would overthrow all civil societies ; therefore you dare not but in terms disown it , though it still remains among those arcana societatis , those hidden works of darkness , which want only a fair opportunity to discover themselves . but as much as you wipe your mouth , though it be foul enough in saying , that neither the bishop , nor all his gang , are able to name one of them of that opinion , to make it appear , how much you have abused your self in these words ; i shall make a short business of it , and name your self for one , and becanus your author for another , and refer the reader to what goes before , for an evidence that you own those principles from whence it unavoidably follows , that no faith is to be kept with hereticks . but , are the jesuits indeed grown such honest men , that not one of their number can be named , who assert this doctrine ? a happy change ! for sure they were not alwaies so ; if we believe that excellent person of as great integrity as learning , and a romanist too , jac. augustus thuanus in his elegy in parricidas , wherewith he concludes his sacred poems ; in which he speaks great and sad truths of that honest society ; where he mentions those cruelties and assasinations , which were brought into these parts of the world by the arts and opinions of a famous society , which makes nothing of laws , faith , honesty , religion , to advance that interest which it hath espoused ; and expresly saith , that they deny faith to be kept , that by their distinctions and subtilties , they enervate the force of divine commands , they deny obedience to authority , destroy religion under a pretence of piety , break engagements , teach the murthering kings ; and what not ? and yet all this while , not one of all this society ever taught , that faith was not to be kept with hereticks . but whence came then the great disputes , whether an oath of allegiance might be taken to heretical princes ? was it not from hence that heresie was supposed to dissolve that obligation to obedience , which otherwise men lay under ? and if it doth destroy that faith which men owe to their soveraigns , in case of heresie ; will it not equally destroy that faith which princes promise to their subjects in case of heresie too ? for what reason can be given for the one , which will not hold for the other also . and who were they , i pray , but those loyal persons the jesuits , who broached , fomented , and propagated that doctrine ? was not father creswell a jesuit , who , under the name of andreas philopator , delivers this excellent doctrine , that the whole school of divines teach , and it is a thing certain , and of faith , that any christian prince , if he manifestly falls off from the religion of the catholick roman church , and endeavours to draw others from it , doth by law of god and man , fall from all power and authority ; and that before the sentence of the pope and judge delivered against him ; and that all his subjects are free from the obligation of any oath to him , of obedience and loyalty , and that they may and ought cast such a one out of his power , as an apostate and a heretick , lest he infect others . i might mention many more , who write after the same nature , but i spare you , only this one may serve instead of many ; for he delivers it not only as his own judgement , but the consent of the school , and as a thing most certain , as being of faith : and will you still say , that no jesuits own such principles , as , that faith is not to be kept with hereticks ? for if heresie doth thus destroy all obligation to obedience in subjects to heretical princes , will it not much more in princes toward heretical subjects ? because certainly princes have a greater power and right to command over subjects , than subjects over them , even in your own case of heresie . since this therefore is the avowed doctrine of the jesuitical school , perswade whom you can to believe , that you look on an obligation to faith remaining in a case of heresie ? certainly none who understand your principles and practices , will have much cause to rely on your faith in this particular . so much at present of the jesuits integrity , as to this principle of keeping faith with hereticks . what you add further about the council of constance , and john husse , and hierom of prague , is only serving up the very same matter in somewhat different words ; for there is nothing contained in them but what hath been sufficiently disproved already : for it all depends on the nature of the safe-conduct , and the difference of the secular and ecclesiastical power . his lordship very pertinently asks , supposing men might go safely to rome , to what purpose is it to go to a general council thither , and use freedom of speech , since the church of rome is resolved to alter nothing ; and you very pertinently answer , that they were invited thither to be better instructed , and reclaimed from their errours . but , will no place serve to reclaim them but rome ? can they not be as well instructed elsewhere , and by other means , than by being summoned to a general council . we had thought the intention of general councils had been to have had free debates concerning the matters which divide the church . but , it seems the protestants must have been summoned as guilty persons , i. e. hereticks , and their adversaries must have sate as their proper judges , and such who were accused as the great innovators , must have believed themselves infallible , and by your own saying , if an angel from heaven had come as a protestant thither , he would not have been believed ; nay , it had been well he had escaped so , if your power were as great over spirits , as over our grosser bodies . so i suppose john husse , and hierom of prague were invited to constance to be better instructed ; and it is well we know by their example what you mean by your good instructions , and out of a desire to avoid them , care not how little we appear where our adversaries not only intend to be judges , but resolve beforehand to condemn us whatsoever we say : for so you tell us , that rome , and the fathers of trent were resolved to stick to their own doctrine ( which they call catholick ) notwithstanding any pretended difficulties or objections brought against it , either by bishops , or any other person . your kind invitations then of the protestants , were wonderful expressions of your churches civility towards them ; that they might be present to hear themselves condemned , and then escape how they could themselves . the offer of a publick disputation , his lordship truly tells you , signifies nothing without an indifferent arbitration , and the impossibility of agreeing on that , renders the other useless ; and only becomes such thrasonical persons as campian was , who yet had as little reason as any man to boast of his atchievements in his disputations . when you therefore say , his lordship would have some atheist , turk or jew , to fit as indifferent persons ; you shew only your scurrility , and want of understanding . for his lordship only insists on the necessity of that , to shew the uselesness of publick disputations , where such cannot be agreed on , as in this case . and he truly saith , this is a good answer to all such offers ; that the kings and church of england had no reason to admit of a publick dispute with the english romish clergy , till they shall be able to shew it under the seal or powers of rome , that that church will submit to a third , who may be an indifferent judge between us and them ; or to such a general council as is after mentioned ( not such a one as you would have , wherein the pope should sit as head of the church , for that is to make the greatest criminal , judge in his own cause . ) and this , saith he , is an honest , and , i think , a full answer . and without this , all disputation must end in clamour ; and therefore the more publick , the worse . because , as the clamour is the greater , so perhaps will be the schism too . chap. iv. the reformation of the church of england justified . the church of rome guilty of schism , by unjustly casting protestants out of communion . the communion of the catholick and particular churches distinguished . no separation of protestants from the catholick church . the devotions of the church of england and rome compared . particular churches power to reform themselves in case of general corruption , proved . the instance from the church of judah vindicated . the church of rome paralleld with the ten tribes . general corruptions make reformation the more necessary . whether those things we condemn as errours , were catholick tenets at the time of the reformation . the contrary shewed , and the difference of the church of rome before and since the reformation . when things may be said to be received as catholick doctrines . how far particular churches power to reform themselves extends . his lordships instances for the power of provincial councils in matters of reformation vindicated . the particular case of the church of england discussed . the proceedings in our reformation defended . the church of england a true church . the national synod . . a lawful synod . the bishops no intruders in queen elizabeths time . the justice and moderation of the church of england in her reformation . the popes power here , a forcible fraudulent usurpation . having thus far examined your doctrine , of keeping faith with hereticks , we now return to the main business concerning schism . and his lordship saying , that there is difference between departure out of the church , and causeless thrusting from you ; and therefore denying that it is in your power to thrust us out of the church ; you answer by a concession , that we were thrust out from the church of rome , but that it was not without cause : which , that you might not seem to say gratis , you pretend to assign the causes of our expulsion . so that by your own confession the present division or separation lyes at the church of rome's door , if it be not made evident that there were most just and sufficient reasons for her casting the protestants out of her communion . if therefore the church of rome did thrust the protestants from her communion , for doing nothing but what became them as members of the catholick church , then that must be the schismatical party , and not the protestants . for , supposing any church ( though pretending to be never so catholick ) doth restrain her communion within such narrow and unjust bounds , that she declares such excommunicate , who do not approve all such errours in doctrine , and corruptions in practice , which the communion of such a church may be liable to , the cause of that division which follows , falls upon that church which exacts those conditions from the members of her communion : that i● , when the errours and corruptions are such as are dangerous to salvation . for in this case , that church hath first divided her self from the catholick church ; for , the communion of that lying open and free to all , upon the necessary conditions of christian communion , whatever church takes upon her to limit and inclose the bounds of the catholick , becomes thereby divided from the communion of the catholick church : and all such who disown such an unjust inclosure , do not so much divide from the communion of that church so inclosing , as return to the communion of the primitive and vniversal church . the catholick church therefore lyes open and free , like a common-field to all inhabitants ; now if any particular number of these inhabitants should agree together , to enclose part of it , without consent of the rest , and not to admit any others to their right of common , without consenting to it , which of these two parties , those who deny to yield their consent ; or such who deny their rights if they will not , are guilty of the violation of the publick and common rights of the place ? now this is plainly the case between the church of rome , and ours ; the communion of the catholick church lyes open to all such who own the fundamentals of christian faith , and are willing to joyn in the profession of them : now to these your church adds many particular doctrines , which have no foundation in scripture , or the consent of the primitive church ; these , and many superstitious practises , are enjoyned by her , as conditions of her communion , so that all those are debarred any right of communion with her , who will not approve of them ; by which it appears , your church is guilty of the first violation of the vnion of the catholick ; and whatever number of men are deprived of your communion , for not consenting to your usurpations , do not divide themselves from you , any further than you have first separated your selves from the catholick church . and when your church by this act is already separated from the communion of the catholick church , the disowning of those things wherein your church is become schismatical , cannot certainly be any culpable separation . for , whatever is so , must be from a church so far as it is catholick ; but in our case it is from a church so far only as it is not catholick , i. e. so far as it hath divided her self from the belief and communion of the vniversal church . but herein a great mistake is committed by you , when you measure the communion of the catholick church , by the judgement of all , or most of the particular churches of such an age , which supposes that the church of some one particular age , must of necessity be preserved from all errours and corruptions , which there is no reason or necessity at all to assert ; and that is all the ground you have for saying , that the separation of protestants was not only from the church of rome , but ( as calvin confesseth ) à toto mundo , from the whole christian world , and such a separation necessarily involves separation from the true catholick church . now to this , we answer two things . . that we have not separated from the whole christian world in any thing wherein the whole christian world is agreed ; but to disagree from the particular churches of the christian world in such things wherein those churches differ among themselves , is not to separate from the christian world , but to disagree in some things from such particular churches . as i hope you will not say , that man is divided from all mankind , who doth in some feature or other differ from any one particular man ; but , although he doth so , he doth not differ from any in those things , which are common to all ; for that were to differ from all ; but when he only differs from one in the colour of his eyes , from another in his complexion , another in the air of his countenance , and so in other things ; this man , though he should differ from every particular man in the world in something or other , yet is a man still as well as any , because he agrees with them in that in which they all agree , which is , humane nature , and differs only in those things wherein they differ from each other . and therefore from the disagreement of the protestants from any one particular church , it by no means follows , that they separated from the whole christian world , and therefore from the true catholick church . . the communion of the catholick church is not to be measured by the particular opinions and practices of all , or any particular churches , but by such things which are the proper foundations of the catholick church . for there can be no separation from the true catholick church , but in such things wherein it is catholick ; now it is not catholick in any thing , but what properly relates to its being and constitution . for whatever else there is , however universal it may be , is extrinsecal to the nature and notion of the catholick church , and therefore supposing a separation from the church , in what is so extrinsecal and accidental , it is no proper separation from the catholick church . as for instance ; supposing all men were agreed , that some particular habit should be worn all over the world , will you say , that any number of men who found this habit extremely inconvenient for them , and therefore should disuse it , did on that account separate from humane nature , and ceased to be men by it ? such is the case of any particular churches laying aside some customes or ceremonies , which in some one age of the church , or more , the greatest part of christian churches were agreed in the practice of ; for , although this general practice should make men more diligent in enquiry , and careful in what they did ; yet if such a church having power to govern it self , see reason to alter it , it doth not separate from the communion of the catholick church therein , and therefore doth not cease to be a church . for there is no culpable separation from the church catholick , but what relates to it properly as catholick ; now that doth not relate to it as catholick , which it may be catholick without , now certainly you cannot have so little reason as to assert , that the church cannot be catholick without such extrinsecal and accidental agreements . and from hence it follows , that no church can be charged with a separation from the true catholick church , but what may be proved to separate it self in some thing necessary to the being of the catholick church ; and so long as it doth not separate as to these essentials , it cannot cease to be a true member of the catholick church . if you would therefore prove , that the church of england , upon the reformation , is separated from the true catholick church ; you must not think it enough to say , ( which as weakly as commonly is said ) that no one particular church can be named , which in all things agreed with it ; for that only proves , that she differed from particular churches in such things wherein they differed from each other , but that she is divided from all christian churches in such things wherein they are all agreed , and which are essential to the being of the catholick church ; when you have proved this , you may expect a further answer . this then can be no cause why your church should expel the protestants out of her communion , but it shews us sufficient cause to believe that your church had separated her self from the communion of the catholick . for which we must further consider , that although nothing separates a church properly from the catholick , but what is contrary to the being of it ; yet a church may separate her self from the communion of the catholick , by taking upon her to make such things the necessary conditions of her communion , which never were the conditions of communion with the catholick church . as for instance , though we should grant , adoration of the eucharist , invocation of saints , and veneration of images to be only superstitious practices taken up without sufficient grounds in the church , yet since it appears , that the communion of the catholick church was free for many hundred years , without approving or using these things ; that church which shall not only publickly use , but enjoyn such things upon pain of excommunication from the church , doth , as much as in her lyes , draw the bounds of catholick communion within her self , and so divides her self from the true catholick church . for , whatever confines , must likewise divide the church ; for by that confinement a separation is made between the part confined , and the other , which separation must be made by the party so limiting christian communion . as it was in the case of the donatists , who were therefore justly charged with schism , because they confined the catholick church within their own bounds : and if any other church doth the same which they did , it must be liable to the same charge which they were . the summ then of this discourse is , that the being of the catholick church lyes in essentials , that for a particular church to disagree from all other particular churches in some extrinsecal and accidental things , is not to separate from the catholick church , so as to cease to be a church ; but still , whatever church makes such extrinsecal things the necessary conditions of communion , so as to cast men out of the church , who yield not to them , is schismatical in so doing ; for it thereby divides it self from the catholick church : and the separation from it , is so far from being schism , that being cast out of that church on those terms only , returns them to the communion of the catholick church . on which grounds it will appear , that yours is the schismatical church , and not ours . for , although before this imposing humour came into particular churches , schism was defined by the fathers , and others , to be a voluntary departure out of the church , yet that cannot in reason be understood of any particular , but the true catholick church ; for not only persons , but churches may depart from the catholick church ; and in such cases , not those who depart from the communion of such churches , but those churches , which departed from the catholick , are guilty of the schism . these things i thought necessary to be further explained , not only to shew , how false that imputation is , of our churches departing from the true catholick church , but with what great reason we charge your church with departing from the communion of it ; and therefore not those whom you thrust out of communion , but your church so thrusting them out , is apparently guilty of the present schism . but still you say , your church had sufficient cause for the expulsion of protestants out of her communion ; and for this you barely repeat your former assertions , and offer not at the proof of one of them ; as though you intended to carry your cause , by the frequent repeating your declaration . but , sir , it is the proof of what you say , that we expect from you , and not the bare telling us , that protestants are schismaticks , because they are schismacicks . when you will be at leisure to prove that the protestants were guilty of heretical doctrine , or schismatical proceedings ; that they raised a new , separate , and mutinous faction of pretended christians distinct from the one catholick body of the church ; by chusing new pastors , instituting new rites and ceremonies not in their power to do , by schismatical convening in several synods , and there broaching new heretical confessions of faith ; when i say , you shall think good to prove all , or any one of these , you shall receive so full an answer as will make it evident , that the protestants did not depart from the catholick churches doctrine and communion ; but that the church of rome is departed thence , first , by imposing erroneous doctrines , and superstitious practices , as conditions of communion , and then by thrusting out all such as would not consent to them . his lordship disputing the terms on which a separation in the church may be lawful , saith , that corruption in manners only , is no sufficient cause to make a separation in the church . and , saith he , this is as ingenuously confessed for you , as by me . for if corruption in manners were a just cause of actual separation of one church from another , in that catholick body of christ , the church of rome hath given as great cause as any , since ( as stapleton grants ) there is scarce any sin that can be thought on by man ( heresie only excepted ) with which that sea hath not been fouly stained , especially from eight hundred years after christ. and he need not except heresie , into which biel grants it possible , the bishops of the sea may fall . and stella and almain grant it freely , that some of them did fall , and so ceased to be heads of the church , and left christ ( god be thanked ) at that time of his vicars defection , to look to his cure himself . but you tell us , the discovery of some few motes , darkens not the brightness of the sunshine ; i wonder what you account beams , if the sins of your popes and others be but motes with you ? we grant , that the sun himself hath his maculae , but they are such as do not eclipse his light ; we find the maculae in your church , but we are to seek for the bright sunshine : or , doth it lye in the service of your religious votaries ? for that is the great part of the conspicuous piety of your church , which you instance in . but , is this indeed the bright sunshine of your church , that there are so many thousand of both sexes ( you do well to joyn them together ) who tye themselves by perpetual vows , never to be dissolved by their own seeking ( and therefore doubtless pleasing to god , whether they are able to keep them or no ) and these pray ( if they understand what they say ) and sing divine hymns day and night ( which makes the sunshine the brighter ) which you say is a strange and unheard of thing among protestants . what , that men and women ( though not in cloysters ) pray and sing hymns to god ? no surely . for as the devotion of our churches is more grave and solemn , so it is likewise more pious and intelligible . you pray and sing , but how ? let erasmus speak , who understood your praying and singing well . cantiuncularum , clamorum , murmurum ac bomborum ubique plus satis est , si quid ista delectant superos . do you think those prayers and hymns are pleasing to god , which lye more in the throat than the heart ? and such who have been wise and devout men among your selves have been the least admirers of your mimical , uncouth , and superstitious devotions ; but have rather condemned them as vain , ludicrous things ; and wondered ( as erasmus said ) what they thought of christ , who imagined he could be pleased with them . ( quid sentiunt obsecro de christo qui putant eum ejusmodi cantiunculis delectari ? ) are these then the glorious parts of your devotions , your prayers and hymns ? but they pray and sing divine hymns day and night : if this be the only excellency of your devotion ▪ how much are you out-done by the ancient psalliani and euchitae , that spent all their time in prayer , and yet were accounted hereticks for their pains . still you pray and sing , but to whom ? to saints and angels often , to the virgin mary with great devotion , and most solemn invocations ; but to god himself , very sparingly in comparison . if this then be the warm sunshine of your devotions , we had rather use such , wherein we may be sure of gods blessing ; which we cannot be in such prayers and hymns which attribute those honours to his creatures , which belong wholly to himself , but you not only sing and pray , but can be very idle too ; and the number of those men must be called religious orders , and the garment of the church is said by you to be imbroidered by the variety of them ; and for this , psalm . . is very luckily quoted . and are those indeed the ornaments of your church , which were become such sinks of wickedness , that those of your church , who had any modesty left were ashamed of them , and call'd loud for a reformation . those were indeed such gardens wherein it were more worth looking for useful or odoriferous flowers ( as you express it ) than for diogenes to find out an honest man in his croud of citizens . therefore not to dispute with you the first institutions of monastick life , nor how commendable the nature of it is , nor the conveniencies of it , where there are no indispensable vows ; the main things we blame in them , are , the restraints of mens liberties , whatever circumstances they are in , the great degeneracy of them in all respects from their primitive institutions , the great snares which the consciences of such as are engaged in them , are almost continually exposed to , the unusefulness of them in their multitudes to the christian world , the general unserviceableness of the persons who live in them , the great debaucheries which they are subject to , and often over-run with ; and if these then be the greatest ornaments of your churches garments , it is an easie matter to espy the spots which she hath upon her . what you add concerning the good lives of papists , and bad of protestants , if taken universally , i● as unjust as uncharitable ; if indefinitely , it shews only that not th● particular lives of men on either side , but the tendency of the doctrine , to promote or hinder the sanctity of them , is here to be regarded . and to that you speak afterwards , but in a most false and virulent manner , when you say , that though sins be committed among you , they are not defended or justified as good works ; whereas , among protestants , darkness it self is called light , and the greatest of all sins , viz. heresie , schism , sacriledge , rebellion , &c. together with all the bad spawn they leave behind them , are cryed up for perfect virtue , zeal , good reformation , and what not ? i doubt not but you would be ready to defend and justifie this open raillery of yours , and call it a good work , notwithstanding what you said before . if we had a mind to follow you in such things , how easie a matter were it to rip up all the frauds , impostures , villanies of all sorts and kinds which have been committed by those who have sate in your infallible chair , and charge them all on your church , with much more justice than you do the miscarriages of any under the name of protestants . for the protestant churches disown such persons , and condemn those practices with the greatest indignation ; whereas you excuse , palliate , and plead for the lives of the popes , as much as you dare , and not out-face the sun at noon , which hath laid open their villanies . where do the principles of protestants incourage or plead for , heresie , schism , sacriledge , rebellion , &c. much less cry them up as heroicall actions ? doth not the church of england disown and disclaim such things to the uttermost ? have not her sufferings made it appear , how great a hater she is of heresies , schisms , sacriledge , and rebellion ? did she ever cry up those for martyrs , who died in gun-powder treasons ? did she ever teach it lawful to disobey heretical princes , and to take away their lives ? yet these things have been done by you , and the doers of them not condemned , but rather fomented and incouraged , as zealous promoters of the holy see , and most devout sons of the church of rome . cease therefore to charge the guilt of persons disowned by the church of england upon her ; when you are unwilling to hear of the faults of those persons among your selves , whom you dare not disown , i mean your popes and jesuits . leaving therefore these unbecoming railleries of yours , and that which occasioneth them , viz. corruption of manners ; we come to consider that , which is more pertinent to our purpose , viz. errours in doctrine ; which his lordship truly assigned as the ground of the reformation , and not only that there were doctrinal errours in your church , but that some of the errours of the roman church were dangerous to salvation . for it is not every light errour in disputable doctrine and points of curious speculation , that can be a just cause of separation , in that admirable body of christ , which is his church , or of one member of it from another . but , that there are errours in doctrine , and some of them such as most manifestly endanger salvation in the church of rome , is evident to them that will not shut their eyes . the proof ( his lordship saith ) runs through the particular points , and so is too long for this discourse . now to this you manfully answer , that in vain do they attempt to reform the church of what she can never be guilty . which , if it depends on your churches infallibility ( which is largely disproved already ) must needs fall to the ground with it . and it is an excellent answer when a church is charged actually with erring , to say , she doth not erre , because she cannot : which is all that you give us here . but if you prove it no better than you have done , the heretical and schismatical obstinacy is like to be found in that church which in her errours challenges infallibility . the question now comes to this , whether , errours being supposed in the doctrine , and corruptions in the communion of a church , when the general church would not reform , it was not lawful for particular churches to reform themselves ? to this his lordship answers affirmatively , in these words . is it then such a strange thing , that a particular church may reform it self , if the general will not ? i had thought , and do so still , that in point of reformation of either manners or doctrine , it is lawful for the church , since christ , to do as the church before christ did , and might do . the church before christ consisted of jews and proselytes : this church came to have a separation , upon a most ungodly policy of jeroboams , so that it never pieced together again . to a common council to reform all , they would not come . was it not lawful for judah to reform her self , when israel would not joyn ? sure it was , or else the prophet deceives me , that sayes expresly , though israel transgress , yet let not judah sin . and s. hierom expounds it of this very particular sin of heresie and errour in religion . after which he proves , that israel , during this separation , was a true church , which we shall insist on , when we have considered what answer you return to his lordships argument ; which lyes in these two things ; first , that judah did not reform her self . secondly , that judah is not the protestant party , as his lordship supposeth it to be . first , you say , judah did not reform her self . for juda being the orthodox church , united with her head the high priest , and not tainted with any doctrinal errours , what need was there of her reformation ? and so the meaning of that place , though israel transgress , yet let not juda sin , is rather against , than for him , because the sense is rather , let not juda fall into schism , though israel does , than , let judah reform her self . but if it appears that judah had corruptions crept into her , as well as israel had , though not so great , and universal , then it follows , that by these words judah had power to reform her self . and the antecedent is clear to any one who takes the pains to read the scripture , and compare the places in it , more than it seems you do . for , doth not this very prophet check judah as well as israel for transgressing gods covenant ? doth he not say , that god had a controversie with judah , and would punish jacob according to his waies ? and for all this , was there no need of reformation in the church of judah ? indeed in one place it is said , that judah ruleth with god , and is faithful with his saints ; but then that is to be understood of judah , when she had reformed her self in the daies of hezekiah : for surely you will not say , that judah did not stand in need of reformation , when hezekiah began his reign ; for it is said of him , that he removed the high places , and brake the images , and cut down the groves . and were not these , things which wanted reformation , think you ? if we consider the times of those three kings before hezekiah , in which hosea prophesied ; we shall see , what need there was of reformation among them , and those were vzziah , jotham , and ahaz ; of the time of vzziah called azariah , in the book of kings it is said , that the high places were not removed , but the people sacrificed and burnt incense still on the high places ; the same is affirmed of the time of jotham in the same chapter ; so that though these princes were good themselves , yet there were many corruptions still among the people . but of ahaz it is said expresly , that he walked in the way of the kings of israel ; and he sacrificed and burnt incense in the high places , and on the hills , and under everygreen tree . chuse now which of these three you please ( for it is most improbable those words , considering the long time of hosea's prophecy , should be spoken in the time of hezekiah the last of the four kings he prophesied under ) and will you tell us again , that the church of judah needed no reformation ? but you offer at a reason for it , because she was united with her head the high-priest at hierusalem . so then , belike as long as judah and the high-priest were united , she could be guilty of no doctrinal errours : no , not although she should pronounce christ a blasphemer , and condemn him to be crucified as a malefactor ; for then certainly judah and the high-priest were united . but , i know you will say , you spake this of the time before the messias was come . and was it then true , that as long as judah was united with her head , the high-priest , there was no need of reformation ? what think you then of the time of ahaz , when vzziah the priest built an altar at the command of ahaz , according to the pattern of the altar of damascus , contrary to gods express law : yet , according to you , as long as judah was united with her head , the high-priest , there was nothing which needed reformation . and , although it be plainly affirmed , that judah kept not the commands of the lord their god , but walked in the statutes of israel which they had made ; yet you , who , it seems , knew judah's innocency better than god , or the prophets did , say very magisterially , that as long as she was united with her head the high-priest , what need , i pray , was there of her reformation ? and this being the case of judah , i may easily grant you , that judah is not the protestant party , but that of the roman church , i. e. while judah was under her corruptions ; and yet , you say , she needed no reformation , she is the fittest parallel you could think of for your church ; but we pretend to no parallel between judah and the protestant party , in not needing a reformation , but in her power to reform her self . which we say still , that she had , though israel would not joyn with her , by virtue of these words of the prophet , though israel transgress , yet let not judah sin : thereby manifesting , that though the greatest part was degenerated in the ten tribes , yet judah might prevent the same in her self , by reforming those abuses which were crept among them ; and therefore the sense of those words , let not judah sin , must in this case imply a power to reform her self . if therefore we speak of judah degenerated , we grant the parallel lyes wholly between judah and the church of rome ; for , although there were great corruptions in judah , and as great in your church , yet with the same reason you say , that neither needed reformation : but if we speak of judah reforming her self under hezekiah , then we say , the parallel lyes between judah , and the protestant party ; whatever you say to the contrary . but you shrewdly ask , if you be judah , who , i pray , are the revolted ten tribes ? who are of jeroboams cabal ? even they who set up the calves at dan and bethel : such who worship images instead of the true god ; though they intend them only as symbols of the divine presence ; for no more did jeroboam and the israelites intend by their calves , and there is no pretence which you use to justifie your selves from idolatry , but will excuse jeroboam , and the ten tribes from it . if the protestant party then be judah ; it is easie finding out the revolted ten tribes , and jeroboams cabal , the court of rome answering to this , as the church of rome doth to the other . but we cannot be judah , because we left the catholick jerusalem , that is rome the city of peace : by whom , i pray , was rome christened , the catholick jerusalem ? for if we consider the worship there used , and the politick ends of it , it much more looks like samaria , or dan , and bethel . if rome be our catholick jerusalem , shew us , when god made choice of that , for the peculiar place of his worship ? where we are commanded to resort thither for divine worship ? when god placed his name there , as he did of old in jerusalem ? when you have shewed us these things , we may think the worse of our selves for leaving rome , but not before . and , let the world judge , whether it be more likely one should meet with the worship of golden calves at rome , or among the protestants ? it is you who have found out new sacrifices , new objects of worship , new rites and ceremonies in it , new altars , and consequently new priests too ; and yet for all this , you must be orthodox judah , which needed no reformation ? and who , i pray , do in point of obedience most resemble the ten tribes ? have not you set up a spiritual jeroboam , as a new head of the church , in opposition to the son of david ? and that you may advance the interest of this spiritual head , you raise his authority far above that of kings , and temporal princes , whom you ought to be subject to ; declaring it in his power to excommunicate , depose , and absolve subjects from obedience to them . and therefore is not the parallel between the ten tribes , and the church of rome , very pat , and much to the purpose ? but when you would seem to return this upon us by a false and scurrilous parallel between jeroboam , and that excellent princess queen elizabeth in the reformation of the church of england , you only betray the badness of your cause , which makes detractions so necessary to maintain it : for as her title to the crown was undoubted , so her proceedings in the reformation were such as are warranted by the law of god , and the nation ; and her carriage in her reign towards jesuits and priests , no other than what the apparent necessity of her own and her kingdoms preservation put her upon . but if she must be accounted like jeroboam , for banishing priests and jesuits often convicted of treasonable practices , upon pain of death if they were found in england ; what must we think of the catholick jerusalem the city of peace , that sweet and gentle mother the church of rome , that hath carried her self so peaceably towards those who have dissented from her ? witness the blood of so many hundred thousands which she hath imbrued her hands in , meerly for opposing her doctrines and superstitions ; witness that excellent school of humanity the inquisition , and the easie lessons she teaches those who come under her discipline there ; witness the proceedings in england in the daies of queen mary ; and then let any judge if the parallel must be carried by cruelty towards dissenters , which of their two reigns came the nearest that of jeroboam . the only true words then that you say , are , but enough of this parallel ; and more than enough too of such impudent slanders against the memory of that famous queen : but your church would have been more unlike the ten tribes , if there had not been a lying prophet there . you dispute very manfully against his lordship , for asserting , that israel remained a church after the separation between judah and the ten tribes ; and yet , after you have spent many words about it , you yield all that he asserts ; when you say , that in a general sense they were called the people of god , as they were abrahams seed , according to the flesh , by reason of the promise made to abraham , i will be a god to thee , and to thy seed after thee . and what is there more than this , that his lordship contends for ? for he never dreamt that the ten tribes were abraham's seed according to the spirit ; but only sayes , that there was salvation for those thousands that had not bowed their knees to baal , which cannot be in the ordinary way where there is no church . and if , as you say , abrahams seed only according to the spirit , i. e. the faithful make the true church ; then it follows , where there were so many faithful , there must needs be a true church . and thus for any thing you have said to the contrary , his lordships argument from the case of judah holds for every particular churches power to reform it self , when the general will not reform . his lordship further argues , that to reform what is amiss in doctrine or manners , is as lawful for a particular church , as it is to publish and promulgate any thing that is catholick in either . and your question , quô judice ? lies alike against both . and yet , i think , saith he , it may be proved , that the church of rome , and that as a particular church , did promulgate an orthodox truth , which was not then catholickly admitted in the church ; namely , the procession of the holy ghost from the son. if she erred in this fact , confess her errour ; if she erred not , why may not another particular church do as she did ? from whence he inferrs , that if a particular church may publish any thing that is catholick where the whole church is silent ; it may reform any thing that is not catholick , where the whole church is negligent , or will not . now to this you answer , . that this procession from the son , was a truth alwaies acknowledged in the church ; but what concerns that , and the time of this article being inserted into the creed , have been so amply discussed already , that i shall not cloy the reader with any repetition , having fully considered whatever you here say concerning the article it self ▪ or its addition to the creed . . you answer , that the consequence will not hold , that if a particular church may in some case promulgate an orthodox truth , not as yet catholickly received by the church , then a particular church may repeal , or reverse any thing that the whole church hath already catholickly and definitively received ? surely no. yet this ( say you ) is his lordships , and the protestants case . you do well to mention an egregious fallacy presently after these words ; for surely this is so . for doth his lordship parallel the promulgating something catholick , and repealing something catholick together ? surely no. but the promulgating something true , but not catholickly received with the reforming something not catholick . either therefore you had a mind to abuse his lordships words , or to deceive the reader by beging the thing in question , viz. that all those which we call for a reformation of , were things catholickly and definitively received by the whole church : which you know we utterly deny . but you go on , and say , that thence it follows not , that a particular church may reform any thing that is not catholick , where the whole church is negligent , or will not , because this would suppose errour , or something uncatholick , to be taught or admitted by the whole church . to put this case a little more plainly by the former instance ; suppose then that the worship of god under the symbols of the calves at dan and bethel , had been received generally as the visible worship of the tribes of judah , and benjamin , as well as the rest ; doth not this answer of yours make it impossible that ever they should return to the true worship of god ? for this were to call in question the truth of gods promise to his church ; and to suppose something not catholick to be received by the whole church . and so the greater the corruptions are , the more impossible it is to cure them ; and in case they spread generally , no attempts of reformation can be lawful : which is a more false and paradoxical doctrine than either of those which you call so . and the truth is , such pretences as these are , are fit only for a church that hateth to be reformed ; for if something not good in it self , should happen in any one age to overspread the visible communion of all particular churches , this only makes a reformation the more necessary ; so far is it from making it the more disputable . for thereby those corruptions grow more dangerous , and every particular church is bound the more to regard its own security in a time of general infection . and if any other churches neglect themselves , what reason is it that the rest should ? for , any or all other particular churches neglecting their duty , is no more an argument , that no particular church should reform it self , than that if all other men in a town neglect preserving themselves from the plague , then i am bound to neglect it too . but you answer , . that all this doth not justifie the protestants proceedings , because they promulged only new and unheard of doctrines , directly contrary to what the catholick church universally held and taught before them for catholick truths . this is the great thing in question ; but i see , you love best the lazy trade of begging things , which are impossible to be rationally proved . but yet you would seem here to do something towards it in the subsequent words ; for about the year of our lord . when their pretended reformations began , was not the real presence of our saviours body and blood in the eucharist , by a true substantial change of bread and wine , generally held by the whole church ? was not the real sacrifice of the mass then generally believed ? was not veneration of holy images , invocation of saints , purgatory , praying for the dead , that they might be eased of their pains , and receive the full remission of their sins generally used and practised by all christians ? was not free will , merit of good works , and justification by charity , or inherent grace , and not by faith only , universally taught and believed in all churches of christendom ? yea even among those who in some few other points dissented from the pope , and the latin church ? to what purpose then doth the bishop urge , that a particular church may publish any thing that is catholick ? this doth not justifie at all his reformation ; he should prove that it may not only add , but take away something that is catholick from the doctrine of the church ; for this the pretended reformers did , as well in england as elsewhere . his lordship never pretends , much less disputes , that any particular church hath a power to take away any thing that is truly catholick ; but the ground why he supposeth , such things as those mentioned by you , might be taken away , is , because they are not catholick ; the question then is between us , whether they were catholick doctrines or not : this you attempt to prove by this medium , because they were generally held by the whole church at the time of the reformation . to which i answer , . if this be a certain measure to judge by , what was catholick and what not ; then what doth not appear to have been catholick in this sense , it was in our churches power to reject , and so it was lawful to reform our selves as to all such things which were not at the time of the reformation received by the whole church . and what think you now of the popes supremacy , your churches infallibility , the necessity of coelibate in the clergy , communion in one kind , prayer in an unknown tongue , indulgences , &c. will you say , that those were generally received by the church at the time of the reformation ? if you could have said so , no doubt you would not have omitted such necessary points , and some of which gave the first occasion to the reformation . if then these were not catholickly received , a particular church might without schism reject them , and so the church of england is sufficiently vindicated from schism by your self , as to these points here mentioned ; which you willingly omitted , because you could not but know how far they were from being universally received in all churches in christendom ? . as to those things which you insist on , you give no sufficient evidence at all , that they were received by the whole church as catholick doctrines . for , so far it is from appearing , that these were held as catholick doctrines by all churches in the christian world ( for then you do most unreasonably condemn the greek , and abyssine churches , &c. for heresie or schism , if they owned all catholick doctrines ; and they must do so , if they agreed with your church in all these things which are the only doctrines you mention as catholick , in opposition to such whom you condemn for heresie or schism ; and if the agreement of all churches be the measure of what is catholick , then those doctrines cannot be so , which those great churches differ from you in , by your own argument ) but , so far is it , i say , from appearing , that these were held so by all churches in christendom , that you cannot prove they were so held in the church of rome her self , before the reformation . the church of rome i take here in the largest sense , as it takes in all such who were the visible members of her communion . now , i hope you will not say , that such doctrines are received as catholick doctrines , which are imbraced only by a party in your church , another party opposing it , both which still remain members of your communion ; for whatever is received as a catholick doctrine ( according to you ) is so received , that those who deny or doubt of it , do thereby become no members of the visible communion of that church ; which is by the churches so declaring her self in those points , that she admits none to her communion , but upon the acknowledgement of them . now , will you say , this was the case of your church , as to these doctrines at the beginning of the reformation ? were transubstantiation , real sacrifice of the mass , veneration of images , invocation of saints , purgatory , &c. so defined then by your church to be articles of faith , that whoever did not assent to them , was declared excommunicate , and cast out of your church ? if not , it is impossible , upon your own grounds , to prove , that these were universally held and believed as catholick doctrines of your church . i do not say , as truly catholick doctrines in themselves ; for , whatever your church defines concerning them , they are not more or less so in themselves for your churches definition ; but , i say , you cannot assert that these were held by your church to be catholick doctrines , till they were defined to be such . for , according to your principles , that which differenceth a catholick doctrine from a particular opinion , is the churches definition ; before then the church had passed a definition in these points , they could not be held as catholick doctrines . to make this somewhat clearer , because it is necessary for undeceiving those who are told , as you tell us here , that at the reformation we rejected such things which were universally owned for catholick doctrines , which is so far from being true , that it is impossible they should be owned for such by the church of rome upon your own principles . for , i pray , tell us , are there not several sorts of opinions among you at this day , none of which are pretended to be catholick doctrines ? and this you constantly tell us , when we object to you your dissentions about them . as for instance , the popes personal infallibility , the superiority of pope over general councils , the immaculate conception of the blessed virgin , the disputes about praedestination , &c. when we tell you of your differences in these points , you answer , that these hinder not the vnity of the church , because these are only in matters of opinion ; and that it is not de fide , that men should hold either way . when we demand the reason of this difference concerning these things , your answer is , that the church hath defined some things to be believed , and not others ; that what the church hath defined , is to be looked on as catholick doctrine , and the denyers of it are guilty of heresie ; but where the church hath not defined , those are not catholick doctrines , but only at best but pious opinions , and men may be good catholicks , and yet differ about them . i pray , tell me , is this your doctrine , or , is it not ? if not , there may be hereticks within your church , as well as without : if it be your doctrine , apply it to the matters in hand . were these things defined by the church at the beginning of the reformation ? if they were , produce those definitions for all those things which you say were owned as catholick doctrines then : that we may see , that at least in the judgement of your church they were accounted so . tell us , when and where those doctrines were defined before the council of trent ? and , i hope you will not say , that was before the beginning of the reformation . if then there were no such definitions concerning them , they could not by your church be accounted as catholick doctrines ; at the most , they could be but only pious opinions , as that of the popes infallibility among you is , and consequently men might be catholicks still , though they disputed or denied them . and how then come the protestants to be accounted hereticks in their reformation , if upon your own principles , those things which they denied were then no catholick doctrines : though you should therefore prove more than you have done , that these points of doctrine were generally received at the time of the reformation , yet that by no means proves that they were catholick doctrines , unless you make it impossible that meer opinions should be generally received in your church . for , if any thing may be generally received in the nature of an opinion , you cannot prove from the bare general reception , that it was a catholick doctrine : unless you would attempt to prove it by the notion under which it was received , whether as an opinion , or a catholick doctrine . but then you must remember to prove these things , . that all those who did receive it , received it under that notion ; as for instance , in any one of those articles by you mentioned , transubstantiation , invocation of saints , &c. you must first prove , that all who were in your churche's communion did believe those things ; which it is impossible for you to do , unless you could prove , that none could be of your church , unless they believed them ; which is again impossible to be done , unless your church had so defined those things , that they ceased to be members of it who did not believe them . thus , we see , your first task is rendred impossible , viz. to know , whether all in your church held these doctrines or no ; but , suppose you knew this , it falls short of your purpose , unless you can prove , that all those who held these things , did not hold them as bare opinions , but as catholick doctrines ; and this is again as impossible as the former ; for , how can you tell , whether they judged these things to be so , unless you knew what their rule was whereby they judged of catholick doctrines ? if you knew their rule , how can you tell , whether they made a right vse of it or no ? or , whether they made any use at all of it ? or , whether they did not take up such opinions by prejudice , education , the judgement of others , and several other waies , without examining of what nature or importance the things were . if you think you have a certain rule to judge of catholick doctrines by , you must prove that they had the same rule , and looked upon it as such too : otherwise they might not use it for those ends , nor be governed at all by it . when you will therefore prove any doctrines to be catholick , by being generally received , you must remember what brave impossibilities you have undertaken . but , suppose you could master this too , and prove , that men generally received these as catholick doctrines ; yet , before you can prove , that these are catholick doctrines from thence , you have a further task yet upon you , which is , to prove it impossible that these men should be out in their judgement concerning the nature of an opinion , and that they could not look on any thing as a catholick doctrine , but what was really so . for , if they may be mistaken in their judgement , we are as far to seek as ever , for knowing what are catholick doctrines , and what not . you must therefore prove the judgement of all these persons infallible concerning what are catholick doctrines , and what not : and by that time , the pope will return you little thanks for your pains , in making every member of your church as infallible as himself . if it be then so impossible to prove , that these were received as catholick doctrines , either from any definition of your church , or from the general reception of them among the members of it , you see , what little reason you had to say , that the protestants at the beginning of the reformation , did take away something that was catholick from the doctrine of the church . which is notoriously false and inconsistent with your own principles . if we should therefore grant , that transubstantiation , purgatory , &c. were generally owned in your church at the time of the reformation , the utmost you can prove , is , only that they were owned as particular doctrines by particular men , but not that they were owned as the catholick doctrines of your church . and therefore we deny not , but that party and faction in your church which owned and contended for these , had got the upper-hand of the other , before the time of the reformation , so that those who doubted of , or denied them , durst not appear so publickly as their adversaries did ; but they were but a party , and a faction still , and there were many outward members of your church , who groaned under the abuses and tyrannies of the prevailing faction , and call'd loud for a reformation . as appeared not only by the open testimonies of some against such doctrines ; the sad complaint of others for want of reformation ; but by the general sense of the necessity of it , at the time when it was set upon , the great applause it met with among all persons who allowed themselves liberty to enquire into things , the general consent of the main bodies of those who set about reforming themselves in the main articles of christian doctrine , and unanimous opposition to those erroneous opinions which you call catholick doctrines . so that these were not at the time of the reformation , so much as the owned catholick doctrines of the roman church ; but the opinions of a prevailing faction in it : and therefore the disowning them , is no rejecting any thing catholick , but rejecting the opinions and practices of a tyrannical and usurping faction . there must be then a great deal of difference put between the state and doctrine of the church of rome , before the beginning of the reformation , and since , especially since the council of trent . for then these doctrines were owned by a faction , but yet there might have been communion with that church , without believing them to be catholick doctrines ; and no doubt , many pious souls went to heaven without believing any of these things , ( viz. such who believed and improved the common principles of christianity , without regarding the erroneous doctrines , or superstitious practices of those among whom they lived ) but upon the first stirrings towards a reformation , the court of rome was so far from reforming the abuses which were complained of , that they sought to inforce them with the greatest severity upon all persons , thundering out excommunications against all such who should question or dispute them . by which means those who might have lived peaceably before within the external communion of that church , without consenting to the errours of it , are now forced out of it , unless they would approve of such things which their consciences detested ; in comparison with the peace of which , they accounted not their lives to be dear to them , as many thousands of them made it appear in several countries . this is the true and just account of the state of things at the beginning of the reformation ; but afterwards , when , through the necessity of the pope's affairs , a council was summoned , and all the arts imaginable were made use of , to steer that grand affair for the interess of the court of rome ; a new scene of affairs appears in the christian world : those doctrines which before were owned only by particular men , are defined by pope and council , to be the catholick doctrines of the roman church , and all those anathematized who will not own them . by which means the roman church is become it self that party and faction , which only prevailed in it before but with reluctancy and opposition ; and now , none are looked on as members of that church , but such as own the definitions of that council in point of doctrine . which makes it vastly to differ from what it was before , as to the terms of its communion , and the state of the persons who remain in it ; who can neither enjoy that freedom in judgement which they might use before , nor yet can pretend those excuses for not knowing the errours and corruptions of that church , which might have prevented obstinacy in them before . so that upon the whole it appears , that the protestants in the beginning of the reformation , were so far from taking away any thing that was received as a catholick doctrine , by all christian churches , that they did not reject any thing which could be looked on as the catholick doctrine of the church of rome ; and consequently that the protestants were so far from a wilful separation from the church of rome , that they were driven out by a prevalent faction , which imposed those things which had been before only the errours of particular persons , as the catholick doctrines of that church , and the necessary conditions of communion with her . . i may answer yet further , that it is not enough to prove any doctrine to be catholick , that it was generally received by christian churches in any one age ; but it must be made appear , to have been so received from the apostles times . so that if we should grant , that these doctrines were owned for catholick , not only by the church of rome , but all other christian churches ( so far as it can be discerned by their communion ) yet this doth not prove these doctrines so owned to be truly catholick , unless you can first prove , that all the christian churches of one age can never believe a doctrine to be catholick , which is not so . you see therefore your task increases further upon you : for , it is not enough to say , that a. d. . such and such doctrines were looked on as catholick , and therefore they were so ; but that for . years , successively from the apostles to that time , they were judged to be so , and then we shall more easily believe you . when you will therefore prove transubstantiation , the sacrifice of the mass , image-worship , invocation of saints , or any other of the good doctrines mentioned by you , in a constant tradition from the apostles times to have been looked on as catholick doctrines , you may then say , that protestants in denying these , did take away something catholick from the doctrine of the church ; but , till that time , these answers may abundantly suffice . we now come closer to the business of the reformation ; but , before we examine the particulars of it , the general grounds on which it proceeded , must somewhat further be cleared , which his lordship tells you , are built upon the power of particular churches reforming themselves , in case the whole church is negligent , or will not ; to which you say , that you grant in effect as great power as the bishop himself does , to particular churches , to national and provincial councils , in reforming errours and abuses either of doctrine or practice : only we require that they proceed with due respect to the chief pastor of the church , and have recourse to him in all matters and decrees of faith , especially when they define or declare points not generally known and acknowledged to be catholick truths . what you grant in effect at first , you in effect deny again afterwards . for the question is about reformation of such errours and abuses as may come from the church of rome ; and when you grant a power to reform only , in case the pope consent , you grant no power to reform at all . for the experience of the world hath sufficiently taught us , how little his consent is to be expected in any thing of reformation . for his lordship truly saith , in answer to capellus , who denies particular churches any power of making canons of faith , without consulting the roman see , that as capellus can never prove that the roman see must be consulted with before any reformation be made : so it is as certain , that , were it proved and practised , we should have no reformation . for it would be long enough before the church should be cured , if that see alone should be her physitian , which in truth is her disease . now to this you say , that even capellus himself requires this : as though capellus were not the man whom his lordship answers as to this very thing . but besides you say , the practise of the church is evident for it , in the examples of the milevitan and carthaginian councils , which , as st. austin witnesseth , sent their decrees touching grace , original sin in infants , and other matters against pelagius , to be confirmed by the pope : but what is all this to the business of reformation , that nothing of that nature is to be attempted without the popes consent ? that these councils did by julius an african bishop communicate their decrees to pope innocent , who denyes ? but , what is it you would thence infer to your purpose ? for the utmost which can be drawn hence , is , that they desired the pope to contribute his assistance in condemning pelagius and coelestius ; by adding the authority of the apostolical see to their decrees : that so by the consent of the church that growing heresie might the more easily be suppressed . and who denyes but at that time the roman church had great reputation , ( which is all that authority implyes ) and by that means might be more serviceable in preventing the growth of pelagianism , if it did concur with the african councils in condemning that doctrine . but because they communicated their decrees to pope innocent desiring his consent with them , that therefore no reformation should be attempted in the church without the consent of the pope is a very far-fetched inference ; and unhappily drawn from those african fathers , who so stoutly opposed zosimus , innocents successour , in the case of appeals about the business of apiarius . did they , think you , look on themselves as obliged to do nothing in the reforming the church without the popes authority , who would by no means yield to those encroachments of power , which zosimus would have usurped over them ? nay it appears , that , till the african fathers had better informed him , zosimus did not a little favour coelestius himself , and in case he had gone on so to do , do you think they would have thought themselves ever the less obliged to reform their churches from the pelagian heresie which began to spread among them ? and in this time of the controversie between zosimus and them , though they carried it with all fairness towards the roman see , yet they were still careful to preserve and defend their own priviledges ; and in case the pope should then have challenged that power over them , which he hath done since , no doubt they would not have struck at calling such incroachments the disease of the church , ( without any unhandsomness or incivility ) and would have been far from looking on him as the only physitian of it . to that pretence , that things should have been born with , till the time of a general council , his lordship answers : first , 't is true , a general council , free and entire , would have been the best remedy , and most able for a gangrene that had spread so far , and eaten so deep into christianity . but what ? should we have suffered this gangrene to endanger life and all , rather then be cured in time by a physitian of weaker knowledge , and a less able hand ? secondly we live to see since , if we had stayed and expected a general council , what manner of one we should have had if any . for that at trent was neither general nor free . and for the errours which rome had contracted , it confirmed them , it cured them not . and yet i much doubt , whether ever that council ( such as it was ) would have been call'd , if some provincial and national synods under supreme and regal power , had not first set upon this great work of reformation ; which i heartily wish had been as orderly and happily pursued as the work was right christian and good in it self . but humane frailty and the heats and distempers of men , as well as the cunning of the devil would not suffer that . for even in this sense also the wrath of man doth not accomplish the will of god , st. james . . but i have learnt not to reject the good , which god hath wrought , for any evil which men may fasten upon it . now to this you answer , . by a fair concession again , that a provincial council is the next chirurgion , when a gangrene endangers life , but still the popes assistance is required : for fear the chirurgion should do too much good of himself , you would be sure to have the pope as physitian to stand by , whom you know too much concerned in the maladies of the church , to give way to an effectual cure . . but you say further , that the most proper expedient is an oecumenical council ; and this you spoil again , with saying ; such as the council of trent was . for what you say in vindication of that being general and free , we shall consider in the chapter designed for that purpose . what you object against our national synod . will be fully answered before the end of this ; which that we may make way for , we must proceed to the remainder of these general grounds ; in which his lordship proves , that when the vniversal church will not , or for the iniquity of the times cannot obtain and settle a free general council , 't is lawful , nay sometimes necessary to reform gross abuses by a national or a provincial . to this you answer in general , that you deny not but matters of less moment as concerning rites and ceremonies , abuses in manners and discipline , may be reformed by particular councils , without express leave of the pope ; but that in matters of great moment concerning the faith and publick doctrine of the church , sacraments , and whatever else is of divine institution , or universal obligation , particular councils , ( if they duly proceed ) attempt nothing without recourse to the sea apostolick , and the pope's consent either expresly granted or justly presumed . fair hopes then there are of a cure when the imposthume gathers in the head ! we are indeed by this put into a very good condition ; for if a small matter hurts a church she hath her hands at liberty to help her self ; but if one comes to ravish her , her hands are tyed , and by no means must she defend her self . for in case , say you , it be any matter of great moment , it must be left to the pope , and nothing to be done without his consent ; no not although the main of the distempers come through him . but thanks be to god , our church is not committed to the hands of such a merciless physitian , who first causeth the malady and then forbids the cure : we know of no such obligation we have , to sleep in st. peters church , as of old they did in the temple of aesculapius in hopes of a cure . god hath entrusted every national church with the care of her own safety , and will require of her an account of that power he hath given to that end . it will be little comfort to a church whose members rot for want of a remedy , to say , the pope will not give leave or else it might have been cured . i wonder where it is that any christian church is commanded to wait the popes good leasure for reforming her self ? whence doth he derive this authority and sole power of reforming churches ? but that must be afterwards examined . but is it reasonable to suppose that there should be christian magistrates , and christian bishops in churches , and yet these so tyed up that they can do nothing in order to the churches recovery though the distempers be never so great and dangerous ? do we not read in the apostolical churches that the government of them was in themselves , without any the least mention of any oecumenical pastour over all ? if any abuses were among them , the particular governours of those churches are checked and rebuked for it , and commanded to exercise their power over offenders ? and must the encroachments of an usurped and arbitrary power in the church hinder particular churches from the exercise of that full power which is committed to the governours of them ? neither is this only a right granted to a church as such , but we find this power practised and asserted in the history of the christian churches from the apostles times . for no sooner did the bishops of rome begin to encroach , but other bishops were so mindful of their own priviledges and the interess of their churches , that they did not yield themselves his vassals , but disputed their rights and withstood his usurpations . as hath partly appeared already , and will do more afterwards . and that particular churches may reform themselves , his lordship produceth several testimonies ; the first is of gerson , who tells us plainly , that he will not deny , but that the church may be reformed by parts . and that this is necessary ; and , that to effect it , provincial councils may suffice , and in some things diocesan . and again , either you should reform all estates of the church in a general council , or command them to be reformed in provincial councils : but all this , you say , doth not concern matters of faith , but only personal abuses ; but i pray what ground is there that one should be reformed and not the other ? is it not the reason why any reformation is necessary , that the churches purity and safety should be preserved ? and is not that as much or more endangered by erroneous doctrines then by personal abuses ? will not then the parity of reason hold proportionably for one as well as the other ? that if the church may be reformed by parts as to lesser abuses , then much more certainly as to greater . besides , you say , gerson allowed no schismatical reformations against the churches head ; neither do we plead for any such ; but then you must shew , who the churches head is , and , by what right he comes to be so ; otherwise the cause of the schism will fall upon him who pretends to be the head to direct others , and is as corrupt a member as any in the body . but his lordship adds , this right of provincial synods , that they might decree in causes of faith , and in cases of reformation , where corruptions had crept into the sacraments of christ , was practised much above a thousand years ago by many , both national and provincial synods . for which he first instanceth in the council at rome under pope sylvester an. . condemning photinus and sabellius , whose heresies were of a high nature against the faith ; but here you say , the very title confutes his pretence , for it was held under the pope and therefore not against him . but however , whether with the pope or against him , it was no more then a provincial synod ; and this decreed something in matters of faith , though according to your own doctrine the pope could not be infallible there : for you restrain his infallibility to a general council , and do not assert that it belongs to the particular church of rome . as well then may any other provincial synod determine matters of faith , as that of rome , since that hath no more infallibility belonging to it as such then any other particular church hath ; and the pope himself you say may erre when he doth not define matters of faith in a general council . to his lordships second instance of the council of gangra about the same time condemning eustathius for his condemning marriage as unlawful ; you answer to the same purpose , that osius was there pope sylvester's legat ; but what then ? if the pope had been there himself he had not been infallible , much less certainly his legat who could have only a second-hand infallibility . to the third of the council of carthage condemning rebaptization about . you grant , that it was assembled by gratus bishop of carthage , but that no new article was defined in it , but only the perpetual tradition of the church was confirmed therein . neither do we plead for any power in provincial councils to define any new articles of faith , but only to revive the old , and to confirm them in opposition to any innovations in point of doctrine ; and as to this we profess to be guided by the sense of scripture as interpreted by the unanimous consent of the fathers and the four first general councils . to the fourth of the council of aquileia a. d. . condemning palladius and secundinus for embracing the arrian heresie , st. ambrose being present ; you answer , that they only condemned those who had been condemned already by the nicene council ; and , st. ambrose and other bishops of italy being present , who can doubt but every thing was done there by the popes authority and consent ? but if they only enforced the decrees of the council of nice , what need of the pope's authority to do that ? and do you think that there were no provincial councils in that part of italy which was particularly distinguished from the suburbicarian churches under the bishop of rome , wherein the pope was not present either by himself or legats ? if you think so , your thoughts have more of your will then understanding in them . but if this council proceeded according to that of nice , will it not be as lawful for other provincial councils to reform particular churches , as long as they keep to the decrees not barely of nice , but of the four general councils , which the church of england looks on , as her duty to do . in the two following instances of the second council of carthage declaring in behalf of the trinity , and the milevitan council about the pelagian heresie ; you say , the bishops of rome were consulted : but what then ? were they consulted as the heads of the church , or only as eminent members of it in regard of their faith and piety ? prove the former when you are able ; and as to the latter it depends upon the continuance of that faith and piety in them ; and when once the reason is taken away , there can be no necessity of continuing the same resort . the same answer will serve for what you say concerning the second council of aurange , determining the controversies about grace and free-will , supposing we grant it assembled by the means of felix . bishop of rome ; as likewise to the third of toledo . we come therefore to that which you call his lordships reserve , and master-allegation the fourth council of toledo ; which , saith he , did not only handle matters of faith for the reformation of that people , but even added also something to the creed , which were not expresly delivered in former creeds . nay , the bishops did not only practise this , to condemn heresies in national and provincial synods , and so to reform those several places and the church it self by parts ; but they did openly challenge this as their right and due , and that without any leave asked of the see of rome . for in this fourth council of toledo they decree , that , if there happen a cause of faith to be setled , a general that is a national synod of all spain and gallicia shall be held thereon . and this in the year . where you see it was then catholick doctrine in all spain , that a national synod might be a competent judge in a cause of faith. but here still we meet with the same answer , that all this might be done with a due subordination to the see apostolick , but that it doth not hence follow that any thing may be done in provincial councils against the authority of it . neither do we plead that any thing may be done against the just authority of the bishop of rome , or any other bishop ; but then you must prove that he had a just authority over the church of england , and that he exercised no power here at the reformation but what did of right belong to him . but the fuller debate of these things must be left to that place where you designedly assert and vindicate the pope's authority . these things being thus in the general cleared , we come to the particular application of them to the case of the church of england . as to which , his lordship say's ; and if this were practised so often and in so many places , why may not a national council of the church of england do the like ? as she did . for she cast off the pope's usurpation , and as much as in her lay restored the king to his right . that appears by a book subscribed by the bishops in henry the eighths time . and by the records in the archbishops office , orderly kept and to be seen . in the reformation which came after , our princes had their parts , and the clergy theirs . and to these two principally the power and direction for reformation belongs . that our princes had their parts , is manifest by their calling together of the bishops , and others of the clergy , to consider of that which might seem worthy reformation . and the clergy did their part : for , being thus call'd together by regal power , they met in the national synod of sixty two . and the articles there agreed on were afterwards confirmed by acts of state , and the royal assent . in this synod , the positive truths which are delivered are more then the polemicks . so that a meer calumny it is , that we profess only a negative religion . true it is , and we must thank rome for it , our confession must needs contain some negatives . for we cannot but deny that images are to be adored . nor can we admit maimed sacraments . nor grant prayers in an unknown tongue . and in a corrupt time or place , 't is as necessary in religion to deny falshood , as to assert and vindicate truth . indeed this latter can hardly be well and sufficiently done but by the former , an affirmative verity being ever included in the negative to a falshood . as for any errour which might fall into this ( as any other reformation ) if any such can be found ; then i say , and 't is most true , reformation , especially in cases of religion , is so difficult a work , and subject to so many pretensions , that 't is almost impossible but the reformers should step too far , or fall too short in some smaller things or other , which in regard of the far greater benefit coming by the reformation it self , may well be passed over and born withall . but if there have been any wilfull and gross errours , not so much in opinion as in fact ( sacriledge too often pretending to reform superstition ) that 's the crime of the reformers , not of the reformation ; and they are long since gone to god to answer it , to whom i leave them . this is his lordships full and just account of the proceedings of the reformation in the church of england , to which we must consider what answer you return . to his lordships question , why may not a national council of the church of england do the like ; you give this answer , truly i know no reason why it may not , provided it be a true national council and a true church of england , ( as those recited were true churches and councils ) and provided also that it do no more . we are contended to put the issue of this business upon these three things , viz. that our church is a true church , that the power which reformed it was sufficient for that purpose , and , that no more was done by them then was in their power to do . but for the first you tell us , that seeing by the church of england he means the present protestant church there , you must crave leave of his lordship to deny his supposition , and tell him the church of england in that sense , signifies no true church . were it not an easie matter to requite you by telling you , it is impossible we should be guilty of schism in any separation from your communion , because we must crave leave of you to say that the church of rome is no true church ; and where there is schism that must be a true church which men are guilty of it in separating from . not as though i sought only to return a blow on you which i could not defend our church from ; but to let you see , that by whatever way you would prove your church to be true , by the same we may prove ours to be so too . if you own and believe the christian doctrine to be the way to salvation , so do we . if you embrace the ancient creeds , so do we . if you acknowledge the scriptures to be gods word , so do we . if you joyn together in participation of the sacraments of baptism , and the lords supper , so do we . if you have a constant succession of bishops , so have we . name then what it is , which is fundamental to the being of a church , which our protestant church doth want ? you grant the church of england was a true church before the reformation , wherein was it altered from it self by it , that it ceased to be a true church ? was it , in denying the pope's supremacy in eighth's time ? that cannot be : for you very remarkably grant afterwards , that the bishops , and the king too , left the pope in possession of all that he could rightly challenge . ( which is a concession we shall make more use of afterwards . ) surely then this could not unchurch them . or , was it the proceedings of the reformation in elizabeth's time ? the supremacy could not be it neither now ; for that was asserted under a more moderate title in her time , than in her fathers . was it the vse of the liturgy in the english tongue ? surely not ; when pius the fourth offered to confirm it , as is credibly reported from vincentius parpalia , whom that pope imployed on a message to queen elizabeth , with terms of accommodation . but , what was it which did unchurch us ? were they the articles of religion agreed on in the convocation , ? if they were these , were they either the positive or negative articles ? if the positive , were they the asserting the articles contained in the three creeds , the sufficiency of scriptures , the necessity of divine grace ? or , what else ? if the negative , was it the denying purgatory , invocation of saints , vnlawfulness of priests marriage , communion in one kind ? or , which of them else was it , which made the protestant church to be no true church ? or , is it lastly the asserting , that as the church of jerusalem , alexandria , and antioch , have erred , so also the church of rome hath erred , not only in their livings , and manner of ceremonies , but also in matters of faith ? is this it which hath done us all the mischief to unchurch us , viz. the denying your churches infallibility ? if this be it , it is our comfort yet , that our church will remain a true church , till yours be proved to be infallible ; which i dare say , will be long enough . but , as though it were in your absolute power to church and unchurch whom , and when you please , you offer at no proof at all of this assertion , but only very fairly crave his lordships leave to call the protestant church no true church : which indeed is a more civil way of begging the question . and if it will not be granted , you cannot help it ; for you have done your utmost , in craving his leave for it , and you have no more to say to it . but , you seem to say much more to the second , that the reformation was not managed by a lawful power , nor carried on in a due manner ; for you offer to prove , that the national synod . was no lawful synod , in these words . for is it not notorious , that pretended synod a. d. . were all manifest usurpers ? is it not manifest , that they all by force intruded themselves , both into the sees of other lawful bishops , and into the cures of other lawful pastors , quietly and canonically possessed of them before the said intrusion ? can those be accounted a lawful national council of england , or lawfully to represent the english church , who never had any lawful , that is , canonical and just vocation , mission , or jurisdiction given them to , and over the english nation ? two things you object as the great reasons why those persons who sate in the convocation , a. . could make no lawful synod , and those are intrusion , and want of a lawful mission : which shall be particularly examined . the first charge is of intrusion , which you would seem to aggravate by several circumstances , that they intruded themselves , and that by force ; and not some , but all ; and that into the sees of other lawful bishops , and cures of lawful pastors . but how true these circumstances are , must appear by a true account of the matters of fact relating to these things in the beginning of elizabeth's reign . how false that is , that all intruded themselves , is notorious to any one who understands any thing of those times ; for this convocation was held in the fifth year of queen elizabeth , and in the fifth of her reign : of cathedral churches , there were but fourteen or fifteen bishops then living in england . for the sees of salisbury and oxford fell vacant a. . and were not supplied in the time of queen mary . hereford , bristow , bangor , were vacant by the death of the several bishops some weeks before queen mary . canterbury by the death of cardinal pool , the same day with the queen . norwich and gloucester a few weeks after her ; and so likewise rochester , worcester , and s. asaph became vacant by the voluntary exile of pates and goldwell , the bishops thereof ; so that but fifteen bishops were then living and remaining in england . and , were all those who supplied these vacant sees , intruders ? a strange kind of intrusion into dead mens places ! so then , this circumstance is notoriously false , that they all by force intruded themselves into the sees of other lawful bishops . but let us see , whether the other are more justly charged with a forcible intrusion into the sees of the other bishops . for which we must consider what the proceedings were in reference to them : it appears then , that in the first year of the queen , the oath of supremacy , formed and enjoyned in the time of henry . was in the first parliament of queen elizabeth revived for the better securing the queen of the fidelity of her subjects ; but yet it was so revived , that several considerable passages in the act concerning it , were upon mature deliberation mitigated , both as to the queens title which was not supreme head , but supreme governour ; a title which queen mary had used before , as appears by an act passed in the third session of parliament in her time : and likewise as to the penalty ; for , whereas the stat. . hen. . c. . was so very severe , that whosoever did extol the authority of the bishop of rome , was , for the first offence , within the compass of a praemunire , and for refusing to take the oath , was guilty of treason ; it passed now in elizabeth's time , only with this penalty , that such who refused it , should be excluded such places of honour and profit , as they held in the church or common-wealth ; and that such as should maintain or defend the authority , preheminence , power , or jurisdiction , spiritual or ecclesiastical of any forein prince , prelate , person , state , or potentate whatsoever , should be three times convicted before he suffered the pains of death . upon the expiring of the parliament , commissioners were appointed to require the bishops to take the oath of supremacy , according to the law made to that purpose , which being tendred to them , they all ( kitchin of landaffe only excepted ) unanimously refused it , although they had taken it before as priests or bishops , in the reign of henry . or edward . but whether by some secret intimations from rome , or their own obstinacy , they were resolved rather to undergo the penalty of the law , than to take it now ; and accordingly before the end of that year they were deprived of their bishopricks . so that the question about the intrusion of those bishops , who came into their sees , depends upon the legality of the deprivation of these . and certainly , whosoever considers their former carriage towards the queen , in refusing to assist at her coronation , and some of them threatning to excommunicate her instead of disputing at westminster , as they had solemnly engaged to do , joyned with this contumacy in refusing the oath , will find that these persons did not unjustly suffer this deprivation . for which i need not run out into the princes power over ecclesiastical persons ; for you have given a sufficient reason for it your self in that acknowledgement of yours , that the bishops , and the king too ( meaning king henry ) left the pope in possession of all he could rightly challenge . if this be true , that notwithstanding the stat. . hen. . notwithstanding the oath of supremacy then taken , the pope might injoy all that belonged to him of divine right , he might then do the same , notwithstanding this oath in elizabeth's time , which was only reviving the former with some mitigation ; and what could it be then else but obstinacy and contumacy in them to refuse it ? and therefore the plea which you make for those whom you call the henry-bishops , will sufficiently condemn these present bishops , whom we now speak of . for if those bishops only renounced the popes canonical and acquired jurisdiction here in england , as you say , i. e. that authority and jurisdiction in ecclesiastical matters , which the pope exercised here by virtue of the canons , prescription , and other titles of humane right , and gave it to the king ; yet they never renounced or deprived him of that part of his authority , which is far more intrinsecal to his office , and of divine right ; they never denied the popes soveraign power to teach the vniversal church , and determine all controversies of faith whatsoever in a general council . if these things , i say , be true , which you confidently assert , the more inexcusable were these bishops for refusing that oath of supremacy which they had not only taken in henry's time , but which , by your own confession , takes away nothing of the pope's authority , in relation to the whole catholick church . and by this means their obstinacy appeared so great , as might justly deserve a deprivation . it being certainly in the power of the king and bishops to assert their own rights in opposition to any canons or prescriptions whatsoever of meerly humane right . so that by your own confession , the more excusable the henry-bishops were , as you call them , the less excusable the mary-bishops were ( as , to follow you , we must call them ) in refusing the oath of supremacy , when tendred to them . was it lawful then in henry's time , to take this oath or not ? if not , then king henry's bishops are infinitely to blame for taking it , and you for defending them : if it was lawful then , why not in elizabeth's time ? had she not as much reason to impose it as her father ? had she not as much power to do it ? when one of the chief refusers , heath , arch-bishop of york , and then l. chancellour of england , did , upon the first notice of the death of queen mary , declare to the house of commons , that the succession of the crown did of right belong to the princess elizabeth , whose title they conceived to be free from all legal questions ; this could be then no plea at all for them . so that if any persons through the greatest obstinacy , might be deprived by a prince of their ecclesiastical preferments , these might ; and when you can prove , that in no case a prince hath power to deprive ecclesiastical persons , you will say more to your purpose than yet you have done . but till you have done that , it remains clear , that these bishops were justly deprived ; and if so , what was to be done with their vacant sees ? must they be kept vacant still ? or such be put into them who were guilty of the same fault with themselves , in refusing the oath , when tendred to them ? if not such , then it was necessary that other fit persons should be legally consecrated and invested in them : and so they were , the places being supplied by worthy persons ; the arch-bishop of canterbury being consecrated by a canonical number of edward-bishops , and the rest duly consecrated by other hands . and for all this , must all these persons be intruders , and intrude themselves by force , and that into the places of other lawful bishops ? when so many sees were actually vacant , and the rest by due form of law , into which other bishops were elected , and legally consecrated , notwithstanding the putid fable of the nags-head ordination , which hath so often and so evidently been disproved , that i am glad to find you have so much modesty , as not to mention it . these bishops being thus legally invested in their places , to whom did the care and government of the english church belong ? to these , or to those who were justly deprived ? if to these , were not they then the due representatives of the english church in a national synod , who with those of the lower house of convocation , make up a true national council ? and if so , it belonged to them as such , to consider what appertained to the faith and government of the church of england . for they undertook not to prescribe to the whole world , that they leave to the bishop and church of rome ( not as legally belonging to them , but arrogantly usurped by them ) but to draw up articles of religion , which should be owned by all such who enjoyed any place of trust in the church of england . so that in all this they were neither intruders , neither did they act any thing beyond their place and authority . but you would seem to quarrel with their vocation , mission , and jurisdiction , as though it were not lawful , i. e. canonical and just ; all these are your own words , and they are but words ; for not one syllable like a proof is suggested . i tell you then ( not to spend time in a needless vindication of the vocation of the bishops and pastors of the church of england , when you give us no reason to question it ) that by the same arguments that you can prove that you have any lawful bishops and pastors in your church , it will appear that we have too . and that our vocation and mission is far more consonant to the apostolical and primitive church than yours is . but , the main quarrel is still behind , which is , that , supposing they had been true bishops , and pastors of the english church , and their assembly a lawful national council , yet , you say , they were so far from doing the like ( that other provincial councils had done ) that they acted directly contrary to them , which charge lyes in these things . . condemning points of faith that had been generally believed and practised in the church before them . this you know we deny , and you barely affirm it , and i have shewed some reason of our denial already , and shall do more when we come to particulars . . in contradicting the doctrine of the roman church : a great heresie indeed , but never yet condemned in any general council . . in convening against the express will of the church of rome : we shall then think that a fault , when you prove it belongs to that only , to summon all councils , general , national , and provincial . . in denying the popes authority , or attempting to deprive him of it : if you speak of his usurped authority , you must prove it a fault to deprive him of it , i. e. to withdraw our selves from obedience to it , for that is all the deprivation can be here understood . if you mean just authority , shew wherein it lyes , whence he had it , by what means he came into it in the church of england , and if you can make it appear that he had a just claim , it will be easie proving them guilty of a fault who disowned it . but , whether it were a fault in them or no , i am sure it is one in you , to lay such things , and so many to our charge , and not offering to give evidence for one of them . but i must consider the infallibility of your church lyes in dictating , and not proving . thus then , for any thing which you so much as seem to say to the contrary , the proceedings of the reformation were very regular and just , being built on sufficient grounds , managed in a legal manner , and carried on with due moderation . which are the highest commendations can be given to a work of reformation ; and do with the greatest right belong to the church of england , of any church in the christian world . there remains nothing now which you object against our reformation , but some faults of the reformers ; as to which his lordship had already said , if any such be found , they are the crimes of the persons , and not of the reformation , and they are long since gone to god to answer it , to whom i leave them . which answer so full of justice and modesty , one would have thought , should have been sufficient for any reasonable man ; but you are not satisfied with it . for you will have those faults to come from the principles of the reformation , and that they did not belong to the persons of the reformers , but are entailed on their successors . but a short answer will suffice for both these : shew us , what avowed principles of the church of england tend to any real sacriledge , before you charge any thing of that nature , as flowing from the maxims of the reformation . and if you can prove the successors of the reformers to continue in any sacrilegious actions , let those plead for them who will , i shall not ; but leave them , as his lordship did , to answer such things to god. as to the memorandum , which his lordship concludes this discourse with , that he spake at that time of the general church , as it was for the most part forced under the government of the roman see : not doubting , but that as the vniversal catholick church would have reformed her self , had she been in all parts freed of the roman yoke ; so , while she was for the most in these western parts under that yoke , the church of rome was , if not the only , yet the chief hinderance of reformation : you answer with some stomach ; by what force i pray ? is it possible ? or , can it enter into the judgement of any reasonable man , that a single bishop , of no very large diocese , should be able by force , to bring into subjection so many large provinces of christendom , as confessedly did acknowledge the popes power , when the pretended reformation began ? but , what reasonable man can imagine , that a single bishop indeed of no very large diocese ( if kept within his bounds ) should , in progress of time , extend his power so far as the pope did , but by one of these two means , force , or fraud ? and since , you seem to be so much displeased at the former , i pray take the latter ; or rather , the conjunction of both together . for that there was force used , appears by the manifold resistance which was made to the encroachments of the popes power ; and the sad complaints of the usurpations and abuses which were in it ; and these abundantly delivered by classical authors of both the present and precedent times : and ( to use more of your own words ) all ecclesiastical monuments are full of them ; so that this is no false calumny , or bitter pasquil ( as you call it ) but a very plain and evident truth . but that there was likewise a great deal of art , subtilty and fraud used in the getting , keeping , and managing the popes power , he hath but a small measure of wit who doth not understand , and they as little of honesty , who dare not confess it . chap. v. of the roman churches authority . the question concerning the church of rome's authority entred upon . how far our church , in reforming her self , condemns the church of rome . the pope's equality with other patriarchs , asserted . the arabick canons of the nicene council proved to be supposititious . the polity of the ancient church discovered from the sixth canon of the council of nice . the rights of primates and metropolitans settled by it . the suitableness of the ecclesiastical , to the civil government . that the bishop of rome had then a limited jurisdiction within the suburbicary churches ; as primate of the roman diocese . of the cyprian priviledge ; that it was not peculiar , but common to all primates of dioceses . of the pope's primacy according to the canons ; how far pertinent to our dispute . how far the pope's confirmation requisite to new elected patriarchs . of the synodical and communicatory letters . the testimonies of petrus de marcâ concerning the pope's power of confirming and deposing bishops . the instances brought for it , considered . the case of athanasius being restored by julius , truly stated . the proceedings of constantine in the case of the donatists cleared , and the evidence thence against the pope's supremacy . of the appeals of bishops to rome , how far allowed by the canons of the church . the great case of appeals between the roman and african bishops discussed . that the appeals of bishops were prohibited , as well as those of the inferiour clergy . c's . fraud in citing the epistle of the african bishops , for acknowledging appeals to rome . the contrary manifested from the same epistle to boniface , and the other to coelestine . the exemption of the ancient britannick church from any subjection to the see of rome , asserted . the case of wilfrids appeal answered . the primacy of england not derived from gregory's grant to augustine the monk. the ancient primacy of the britannick church not lost upon the saxon conversion . of the state of the african churches , after their denying appeals to rome . the rise of the pope's greatness under christian emperours . of the decree of the sardican synod , in case of appeals : whether ever received by the church : no evidence thence of the pope's supremacy . zosimus his forgery in sending the sardican canons instead of the nicene . the weakness of the pleas for it , manifested . that which now remains to be discussed in the question of schism , is , concerning the authority of the church and bishop of rome , whether that be so large and extensive , as to bind us to an universal submission , so that by renouncing of it , we violate the vnity of the church , and are thereby guilty of schism ? but , before we come to a particular discussion of that , we must cast our eyes back on the precedent chapter , in which the title promiseth us , that protestants should be further convinced of schism ; but upon examination of it , there appears not so much as the shadow of any new matter , but it wholly depends upon principles already refuted , and so contains a bare repetition of what hath been abundantly answered in the first part . so your first section hath no more of strength , than what lyes in your churches infallibility : for , when you would plead , that though the church of rome be the accused party , yet she may judge in her own cause ; you do it upon this ground , that you had already proved the roman church to be infallible , and therefore your church might as well condemn her accusers , as the apostles theirs ; and that protestants not pretending infallibility cannot rationally be permitted to be accusers and witnesses against the roman church . now , what doth all this come to , in case your church be not infallible , as we have evidently proved she is not , in the first part ; and that she is so far from it , that she hath most grosly erred , as we shall prove in the third part ? your second section supposes the matter of fact evident , that protestants did contradict the publick doctrine and belief of all christians generally throughout the world , which we have lately proved to be an egregious falsity , and shall do more afterwards . the cause of the separatists , and the church of england , is vastly different , whether wee look on the authority , cause , or manner of their proceedings ; and in your other instances you still beg the question , that your church is our mother-church , and therefore we are bound to submit to her judgement , though she be the accused party . but as to this whole business of quô judice , nothing can be spoken with more solidity and satisfaction , than what his lordship saith . if it be a cause common to both , as certain it is here ( between the protestant and roman church ) then neither part alone may be judge ; if neither alone may judge , then either they must be judged by a third , which stands indifferent to both , and that is the scripture : or if there be a jealousie , or a doubt of the sense of the scripture , they must either both repair to the exposition of the primitive church , and submit to that ; or both call and submit to a general council , which shall be lawfully called , and fairly and freely held with indifferency to all parties ; and that must judge the difference according to scripture , which must be their rule as well as private mens . when you either attempt to shew the unreasonableness of this , or substitute any thing more reasonable instead of it , you may expect a further answer to the question , quô judice ? as far as it concerns the difference between your church , or ours . the remainder of this whole chapter is only a repetition of somewhat concerning fundamentals , and a further expatiating in words , without the addition of any more strength from reason or authority upon the churches infallibility being proved from scripture ; which having been throughly considered already , and an account given , not only of the meaning of those places ( one excepted , which we shall meet with again ) but of the reason , why the sense of them as to infallibility should be restrained to the apostles , i find no sufficient motive inducing me to follow you , in distrusting the readers memory , and trespassing on his patience , so much as to inculcate the same things over and over , as you do . passing by therefore the things already handled , and leaving the rest ( if any such thing appear ) to a more convenient place , where these very places of scripture are again brought upon the stage in the questions of the pope's authority and infallibility of general councils , i come to your following chapter , in which you enter upon the vindication of the roman churches authority . . that which his lordship hath long insisted on , and evidently proved , is , the right which particular churches have to reform themselves , when the general church cannot for impediments , or will not for negligence do it . and your answers to his proofs have had their weakness sufficiently laid open ; the only thing here objected further , is , whether in so doing particular churches do not condemn others of errours in faith ? to which his lordship answers , that to reform themselves , and to condemn others , are two different works , unless it fall out so , that by reforming themselves , they do by consequence condemn any other , that is guilty in that point , in which they reform themselves ; and so far to judge and condemn others , is not only lawful but necessary . a man that lives religiously doth not by and by sit in judgement , and condemn with his mouth all prophane livers : but yet while he is silent , his very life condemns them . to what end his lordship produceth this instance , any one may easily understand ; but you abuse it , as though his lordship had said , that protestants only by their religious lives do condemn your church ; and upon this run out into a strange declamation about who the men are that live so religiously ? they who to propagate the gospel the better , marry wives contrary to the canons and bring scripture for it ? yes surely , much more then they who to propagate your church , enjoy concubines ; for which if they can bring some canons of your church , i am sure they can bring no scripture for it . they who pull down monasteries both of religious men and women ? i see , you are still as loth to part them , as they are to be parted themselves ; but if all their lives be no more religious then the most of them have been ; the pulling of them down might be a greater act of religion then living in them . they who cast altars to the ground ? more certainly then they who worshipped them . they who partly banish priests , and partly put them to death ? or they who commit treasons and do things worthy of death ? but you are doubtless very religious and tender-hearted men , whose consciences would never suffer you to banish or put any to death for the sake of religion ; no not in queen maries time here in england ! they who deface the very tombs of saints , and will not permit them to rest even when they are dead ? or they who profess to worship dead saints , and martyr living ones with fire and faggot ? if this be your religious living , none who know what religion means will be much taken with it . i shall easily grant that you stick close to the pope , but are therein far enough from the doctrine or life of st. peter . if any of you have endured sequestrations , imprisonments , death it self , i am sure it was not for any good you did ; not for the catholick faith , but if you will , for some catholick treasons , such as would have enwrapt a whole nation in misery . if this be your suffering persecution for righteousness sake , you will have little cause to rejoyce in your fellow-sufferers . but if you had not a mind to calumniate us , and provoke us to speak sad truths of you , all this might have been spared ; for his lordship only chose this instance , to shew that a church or person may be condemned consequentially , which was not intentionally . but you say , our church hath formally condemned yours , by publick and solemn censures in the . articles . doth his lordship deny that our church in order to our own reformation hath condemned many things which your church holds ? no , but that our churches main intention was to reform it self ; but , considering the corruption and degeneracy of your church , she could not do it , without consequentially condemning yours : and , that she did justly in so doing , we are ready on all occasions to justifie . but his lordship asks , if one particular church may not judge or condemn another , what must then be done where particulars need reformation ? to which his adversary gives a plain answer , that particular churches must in that case ( as irenaeus intimateth ) have recourse to the church of rome , which hath more powerful principality ; and to her bishop , who is the chief pastour of the whole church , as being st. peters successour , &c. this is the rise and occasion of the present controversie . to this his lordship answers , that it is most true indeed ; the church of rome hath had , and hath yet , more powerful principality , then any other particular church . but she hath not this power from christ. the roman patriarch by ecclesiastical constitutions might perhaps have a primacy of order : but for principality of power , the patriarchs were as even , as equal , as the apostles were before them . the truth is , this more powerful principality the roman bishops got under the emperours , after they became christian ; and they used the matter so , that they grew big enough to oppose , nay to depose the emperours , by the same power which they had given them . and after this , other particular churches , especially here in the west , submitted themselves to them for succour and protections sake . and this was one main cause that swel'd rome into this more powerful principality , and not any right given by christ to make that prelate , pastour of the whole church . to this you answer , that to say that the roman churches principality is not from christ , is contrary to st. austin and the whole milevitan council , who in their epistle to innocent the first profess that the popes authority is grounded upon scripture and consequently proceeds from christ. but whoever seriously reads and throughly considers that epistle will find no such thing as that you aim at there . for the scope of the epistle is to perswade pope innocent to appear against coelestius and pelagius ; to that end they give first an account of their doctrine , shewing how pernicious and contrary to scripture it was ; after which they tell him that pelagius being at jerusalem was like to do a great deal of mischief there , but that many of the brethren opposed him and especially st. hierom. but we , say they , do suppose that through the mercy of our lord christ assisting you , those which hold such perverse and pernicious principles may more easily yield by your authority drawn out of scripture . where they do not in the least dream of his authority as vniversal pastor being grounded on scripture , but of his appearing against the pelagians with his authority drawn out of scripture , that is , to that authority which he had in the church , by the reputation of the roman see , the authority of the scripture being added , which was so clear against the pelagians , or both these going together were the most probable way to suppress their doctrine . and it hath been sufficiently proved by others , by very many instances of the writers about that age , that authoritas was no more then rescriptum ; as particularly appears by many passages in leo's epistles , in which sense no more is expressed by this , than , that by the pope's answer to the council drawn out of the authority of scripture , the pelagians might more probably be suppressed . but what is this to an vniversal pastorship given by christ to him ; any otherwise then to those who sat in any other apostolical sees ? but your great quarrel is against his lordship , for making all the patriarchs even and equal , as to principality of power : and when he saith , equal as the apostles were , you say , that is aequivocal ; for though the apostles had equal jurisdiction over the whole church , yet st. peter alone had jurisdiction over the apostles ; but this is neither proved from john . nor is it at all clear in antiquity as will appear when we come to that subject . but this assertion of the equality of protestants is so destructive to your pretensions in behalf of the church of rome , that you set your self more particularly to disprove it ; which you offer to do by two things . . by a canon of the nicene council . . by the practise of the ancient church . you begin with the first of them , and tell us , that 't is contrary to the council of nice , in the third canon whereof , which concerns the jurisdiction of patriarchs , the authority ( or principality if you will ) of the bishop of rome is made the pattern , and model of that authority and jurisdiction which patriarchs were to exercise over the provincial bishops . the words of the canon are these . sicque praeest patriarcha iis omnibus , qui sub ejus potestate sunt , sicut ille qui tenet sedem romae , caput est & princeps omnium patriarcharum , the patriarch ( say they ) is in the same manner over all those that are under his authority , as he who holds the see of rome is head and prince of the patriarchs . and in the same canon the pope is afterwards styled , petro similis & authoritate par , resembling st. peter and his equal in authority . these are big words indeed and to your purpose , if ever any such thing had been decreed by the council of nice ; but i shall evidently prove that this canon is supposititious , and a notorious piece of forgery . which forgery is much increased by you when you tell us , these words are contained in the third canon of the council of nice : which in the greek editions of the canons by du tillet , and the codex canonum by justellus , and all other extant , in the latin versions of dionysius exiguus , and isidore mercator , is wholly against the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. such kind of women which clergy men took into their houses , neither as wives or concubines , but under a pretext of piety . in the arabick edition of the nicene canons , set out by alphonsus pisanus , the third canon is against the ordination either of neophyti or criminal persons , and so likewise in that of turrianus . so that in no edition , whether arabick or other , is this the third canon of the council of nice ; and therefore you were guilty either of great ignorance and negligence in saying so , or of notorious fraud and imposture if you knew it to be otherwise , and yet said it that the unwary reader might believe this canon to be within the . which are the only genuine canons of the council of nice . indeed such a canon there is in these arabick editions , but it is so far from being the third , that in the editions both of pisanus and turrianus it is the thirty ninth , and in it i grant those words are ; but yet you will have little reason to rejoyce in them , when i have proved , ( as i doubt not to do ) that this whole farrago of arabick canons is a meer forgery ; and that i shall prove both from the true number of the nicene canons , and the incongruity of many things in the arabick canons with the state and polity of the church at that time . in those editions set out by pisanus and turrianus from the copy which they say was brought by baptista romanus from the patriarch of alexandria there are no fewer then eighty canons ; whereas the nicene council never passed above . which if it appear true , that will sufficiently discover the forgery and supposititiousness of these arabick canons . now that there were no more then twenty genuine canons of the council of nice , i thus prove . first from theodoret , who after he had given an account of the proceedings in the council against the arrians , he saith , that the fathers met in council again , and passed twenty canons relating to the churches polity : and gelasius gricenus whom alphonsus pisanus set forth with his latin version , recounts no more then twenty canons ; the same number is asserted by nicephorus callistus ; and we need not trouble our selves with reciting the testimonies of more greek authors , since binius himself confesseth that all the greeks say , there were no more then twenty canons then determined . but although certainly the greeks were the most competent judges in this case , yet the latins themselves did not allow of more . for although ruffinus makes twenty two , yet that is not by the addition of any more canons , but by splitting two into four . and if we believe pope stephen in gratian , the roman church did allow of no more then twenty . and in that epitome of the canons which pope hadrian sent to charles the great for the government of the western churches , a.d. . the same number of the nicene canons appears still . and in a m s. of hincmarus rhemensis against hincmarus laudunensis , this is not only asserted but at large contended for , that there were no more canons determined at nice , then those twenty which we now have , from the testimonies of the tripartite history , ruffinus , the carthaginian council , the epistles of cyril of alexandria , and atticus of constantinople , and the twelfth action of the council of chalcedon . so that if both greeks and latins say true , there could be no more then twenty genuine canons of the council of nice ; which may be yet further proved by two things , viz. the proceedings of the african fathers in the case of zosimus about the nicene canons and the codex canonum ecclesiae vniversae , both which yield an abundant testimony to our purpose . if ever there was a just occasion given for an early and exact search into the authentick canons of the council of nice , it was certainly in that grand debate between the african fathers and the roman bishops in the case of appeals . for zosimus challenging not only a right of appeals to himself , but a power of dispatching legats unto the african churches to hear causes there , and all this by vertue of a canon in the nicene council , and this being delivered to them in council by faustinus , philippus , and asellus whom zosimus sent into africa , to negotiate this affair ; no sooner did they hear this , but they were startled and amazed at it , that such a thing should be challenged by vertue of a canon in the council of nice which they had never heard of before . upon this they declare themselves willing to yield to what should appear to be determined by the nicene canons ; thence they propound that a more exact search might be made into the authentical copies of them : for they profess no such thing at all to appear , in all the greek copies which they had among them ; although caecilianus the bishop of carthage were present in the council of nice and brought home those copies which were preserved in the church of africa . for in all the subscriptions of the nicene council , whether arabick or others , the name of caecilian appears ; now caecilian was immediate predecessor in carthage to aurelius who presided in that council wherein these things were debated . and there it is expresly said , there were but twenty canons . but in order to further satisfaction , they decree that a message should be sent on purpose to constantinople , antioch , and alexandria to find out the authentick copies of the nicene canons , and after a most diligent search no more canons could be found then what the african fathers had before . and thence in the epistle of atticus of constantinople written to the council of carthage , he acquaints them that he according to their desire had sent them the true and compleat canons ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) of the nicene council . and to the same purpose cyril the patriarch of alexandria mentioning their desires of having 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the most true and authentick copies out of the archives of that church , so he tells them he had sent ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) the most faithful copies of the authentick synod of nice . now if there had been any ground in the world for turrianus his conjecture , that the nicene canons were translated into arabick by alexander who was present at the council , for the benefit of those in pentapolis or aegypt who only understood that language , ( and that before the nicene canons were burnt , of which athanasius complains ) ; who was more likely to have found out these arabick canons then cyril the patriarch of alexandria upon this occasion especially , when the full and authentick copies were so extreamly desired ? and since no such thing at all appeared then , upon the most diligent inquiry , what can be more evident , then that these eighty arabick canons are the imposture of some latter age ? besides , if these canons had been genuine and authentick , what imaginable reason can be given why they were not inserted in the codex canonum as the other twenty were ? for , as jacobus leschasserius well observes , we are not to imagine that the ancient church was governed at randome by loose and dispersed canons , whereby it had been an easie matter to have foisted in false and supposititious canons ; but that there was a certain body and collection of them digested into an exact order ; so that none could add to or take away any thing from it : and whatever canons were not contained in this body had no power or force at all in the church . and that there was such a codex canonum , that learned person hath abundantly proved from the council of chalcedon , which hath many passages referring to it ; so that there is now no question made , but that which justellus published is the true collection of those canons of the vniversal church which were inserted into the codex ; in which we find but only the twenty canons of the nicene council ; and that there could possibly be no more , appears by the number of the canons as they are reckoned in the council of chalcedon . from whence it follows that only these twenty canons were ever own'd by the vniversal church ; for had the fathers of the church known of so many other canons of the nicene council , ( as surely at least the patriarchs of alexandria could not be ignorant of them if there had been any such ) can we possibly think that those who had so great a veneration for the nicene council , should have left the far greater part of the canons of it , out of the code of the churches canons ? i am not ignorant of what is objected by binius , bellarmin , and others , to prove that there were more then twenty canons of the council of nice ; but those proofs either depend upon things as supposititious as the arabick canons themselves , such as the epistles of julius and athanasius ad marcum ; or else they only prove that several other things were determined by the nicene council as concerning the celebration of easter , rebaptizing hereticks , and such like , which might be by the acts of the council without putting them into the canons , as baronius confesseth ; but there cannot be any evidence brought of any canon which concerned the churches polity ( for about that theodoret and nicephorus tell us the canons were made ) which was not among these twenty . so that it appears that these arabick canons are a meer forgery of later times , there being no evidence at all that they were known to the church in all the time of the four general councils : and therefore baronius , ( notwithstanding the pretences of pisanus and turrianus from the alexandrian copy , and that out of marcellus his library , yet ) since these canons were unknown in the controversie of the african church about the nicene canons , leaves the patronage of them to such as might be able to defend them . and spondanus in his contraction of him , ( though in his marginal note he saith , baronius was sometimes more inclinable to the inlarged number of the nicene canons ) yet he relates it as his positive opinion , that he rejected all but the twenty , whether arabick or other as spurious and supposititious . you see then what a fair choice you have made of the third canon of the council of nice to prove the superiority of the pope over other patriarchs by ; when neither is it the third canon , nor any canon at all of the council of nice , but a spurious figment like those of isidore mercator , who thought all would pass for gold which made for the interess of the church of rome . but were there not such a strong and pregnant evidence from authority to make it appear that these canons were supposititious , yet the incongruity of them , with the state of the church at that time would abundantly manifest it , if we had time to compare many of those canons with it . but that which is most material to our purpose , concerning the equality of the patriarchs , your following words will put us upon a further enquiry into . this also , say you ( viz. that the pope was head and prince of all the patriarchs ) the practise of the church shews , which is alwayes the best expositor and assertor of the canons . for not only the popes confirmation was required to all new elected patriarchs , but it belonged likewise to him to depose unworthy ones , and restore the unjustly deposed by others . we read of no less then eight several patriarchs of constantinople deposed by the bishop of rome . sixtus the third deposed also polychronius bishop of hierusalem , as his acts set down in the first tome of the councils testifie . on the contrary , athanasius patriarch of alexandria , and paulus bishop of constantinople , were by julius the first restored to their respective sees having been unjustly expelled by hereticks . the same might be said of divers others ; over whom the pope did exercise the like authority : which he could never have done , upon any other ground , then that of divine right , and as being generally acknowledged st. peters successour in the government of the whole church . three things i shall return you in answer to this discourse . . that the practise of the church doth not shew any such inequality as you contend for between the pope and other patriarchs . . that no such practise of the church can be proved from the instances by you brought ; and therefore , lastly , it by no means follows that the pope exercised any such authority by divine right , or was acknowledged to be st. peters successour in the government of the whole church . i begin with the practice of the ancient church , which is so far from being an evidence of such an inequality of patriarchs as that you contend for , that nothing doth more confirm that which his lordship saith concerning the equality of them then that doth . for which we appeal to that famous testimony to this purpose in the sixth canon of the nicene council . let ancient customes prevail ; according to which , let the bishop of alexandria have power over them who are in aegypt , libya , and pentapolis ; because this was likewise the custome for the bishop of rome . and accordingly in antioch and other provinces , let the priviledges be preserved to the churches . which canon is the more remarkable , because it is the first that ever was made by the ancient church for regulating the rights and priviledges of churches over each other ; which there was like to be now more contest about , not only by reason of the churches liberty under constantine , but because of the new disposition of the empire by him , which was made not long before the sitting of the council of nice . but the particular occasion of this canon is generally supposed to be this . meletius an ambitious bishop in aegypt , much about the time that arrius broached his heresie at alexandria , takes upon him to ordain bishops and others in aegypt , without the consent of the bishop of alexandria . this case being brought before the nicene fathers , they pronounce these ordinations null , depose meletius , and , to prevent the like practises for the future , do by this canon confirm the ancient customs of that nature in the church ; so that the bishop of alexandria should enjoy as full right and power over the provinces of aegypt , libya , and pentapolis , as the bishop of rome had over those subject to him , as likewise antioch and other churches should enjoy their former priviledges . where we plainly see that the ground of this extent of power is not attributed to any divine right of the bishop of rome , or any other metropolitan , but to the ancient custome of the church ; whereby it had obtained that such churches that were deduced ( as it were so many colonies ) from the mother-church , should retain so much respect to and dependence upon her , as not to receive any bishop into them without the consent of that bishop who governed in the metropolis . which was the prime reason of the subordination of those lesser churches to the metropolis : and this custome being drawn down from the first plantation of churches , and likewise much conducing to the preserving of unity in them , these nicene fathers saw no reason to alter it , but much to confirm it . for otherwise , there might have been continual bandying and opposition of lesser bishops and churches against the greater ; and therefore the discipline and vnity of the church did call for this subordination ; which could not be better determined then by the ancient custome which had obtained in the several churches . it being found most convenient that the churches in their subordination should be most agreeable to the civil disposition of the empire . and therefore for our better understanding the force and effect of this nicene canon , we must cast our eye a little upon the civil disposition of the roman empire by constantine , then lately altered from the former disposition of it under augustus and adrian . he therefore distributed the administration of the government of the roman empire under four praefecti praetorio ; but for the more convenient management of it , the whole body of the empire was cast into several jurisdictions containing many provinces within them which were in the law call'd dioeceses ; over every one of which there was appointed a vicarius , or lieutenant , to one of the praefecti praetorio , whose residence was in the chief city of the diocese , where the praetorium was , and justice was administred to all within that diocese , and thither appeals were made . under these were those proconsuls or correctores who ruled in the particular provinces ; and had their residence in the metropolis of it , under whom were the particular magistrates of every city ; now according to this disposition of the empire , the western part of it contained in it seven of these dioceses , as , under the praefectus praetorio galliarum , was the diocese of gaul , which contained seventeen provinces ; the diocese of britain , which contained five , ( afterwards but three in constantines time ) the diocese of spain , seven . under the praefectus praetorio italiae , was the diocese of africa , which had six provinces , the diocese of italy , whose seat was milan , . the diocese of rome , . under the praefectus praetorio illyrici , was the diocese of illyricum , in which were seventeen provinces . in the eastern division , were the diocese of thrace , which had six provinces , the diocese of pontus . and so the diocese of asia , the oriental ( properly so called ) wherein antioch was , . all which were under the praefectus praetorio orientis ; the aegyptian diocese , which had six provinces , was under the praefectus augustalis ; in the time of theodosius the elder , illyricum was divided into two dioceses , the eastern , whose metropolis was thessalonica , and had eleven provinces , the western , whose metropolis was syrmium , and had six provinces . according to this division of the empire , we may better understand the affairs and government of the church , which was model'd much after the same way ; unless where ancient custom , or the emperour's edict , did cause any variation . for as the cities had their bishops , so the provinces had their arch-bishops , and the dioceses their primates , whose jurisdiction extended as far as the diocese did ; and as the conventus juridici were kept in the chief city of the diocese for matters of civil judicature , so the chief ecclesiastical councils for the affairs of the church , were to be kept there too ; for which there is an express passage in the codex of theodosius , whereby care is taken , that the same course should be used in ecclesiastical , which was in civil matters ; so that such things which concerned them should he heard in the synods of the diocese . where the word diocese is not used in the sense the african fathers used it in , for that which belonged to one bishop ( as it is now used ) but as it is generally used in the codex of theodosius and justinian , and the novells and greek canons ; for , that which comprehends in it many provinces , as a province , takes in several dioceses of particular bishops . these things being premised , we may the better understand the scope of the canon of the council of nice ; in which three things are to our purpose considerable ; . that it supposeth particular bounds and limits set to the jurisdiction of those who are mentioned in it . . that what churches did enjoy priviledges before this council had them confirmed by this canon , as not to be altered . . that the churches enjoying these priviledges were not subordinate to each other . . that particular bounds and limits were supposed to the power of those churches therein mentioned . for , although we grant that this canon doth not fix or determine , what the bounds were of the roman bishops power , yet that it doth suppose that it had its bounds , is apparent from the example being drawn from thence for the limits of other churches . for , what an unlikely thing is it , that the church of rome should be made the pattern for assigning the limits of other metropolitan churches , if that had not its known limits at that time ? and , can any thing be more absurd or unreasonable , than the answer which bellarmin gives to this place , that the bishop of alexandria ought to govern those provinces , because the roman bishop hath so accustomed , i. e. saith he , to let the alexandrian bishop govern them . here is an id est with a witness . what will not these men break through , that can so confidently obtrude such monstrous interpretations upon the credulous world ▪ is it possible to conceive when the canon makes use of the parallel of the roman bishop , and makes that the ground why the bishop of alexandria should enjoy full power over those provinces , because the bishop of rome did so ; that the meaning should be , that he gave the bishop of alexandria power to govern those provinces ? they who can believe such things , may easily find arguments for the pope's unlimited supremacy every where . i make no scruple to grant what bellarmin contends for , from the epistle of nicolaus , that the council did not herein assign limits to the church of rome , but made that a pattern whereby to order the government of other churches . and from thence it is sufficiently clear to any reasonable man , that the limits of her government were , though not assigned , yet supposed by the council . for otherwise , how absurd were it to say , let the bishop of alexandria govern aegypt , libya , and pentapolis , because the bishop of the church of rome hath no limits at all , but governs the whole church ? doth not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 import some parallel custom in the church of rome , and name therefore what that is , supposing he hath no limits set to his jurisdiction ? yes , it may be you will reply , he had limits as a metropolitan , but not as head of the church . grant me then , that he had limits as metropolitan , and then prove you , that ever he had any unlimited power acknowledged as head of the church . would they ever have made such an instance in him , without any discrimination of his several capacities , if they had known any other power that he had , but only as a metropolitan ? nay , might not the bishops of antioch , and alexandria , be rather supposed to have the greater power , because their provinces were much larger here than his . and although bellarmin useth that as his great argument , why ruffinus his exposition cannot hold , because the bishop of rome would have a lesser diocese assigned him , than either the bishops of antioch , or alexandria ; yet when we consider , what hath been said already of the agreement of the civil and ecclesiastical government , a sufficient account may thence be given of it . for as the praefectus augustalis had all the provinces of aegypt for his diocese , so had the bishop of alexandria ; and , as the lieutenant of antioch had that which was properly called the orient , containing fifteen provinces under him , so had the bishop of antioch ; and by the same proportion , the power of the bishop of rome did correspond to the diocese of the roman lieutenant , which was over those ten provinces , which were subject to his jurisdiction , as it was distinct from the diocese of italy , which was under that lieutenant , whose residence was at milan . here we see then a parity of reason in all of them : and therefore i cannot but think that the true account of the suburbicary churches in ruffinus his exposition of this canon , is , that which we have now set down , viz. those churches which lay within the ten provinces subject to the roman lieutenant . but of them more afterwards . that which i now insist on , is , that the bishop of rome had then a limited jurisdiction , as other metropolitans and primats had . nay , if we should grant that the title produced by paschasinus in the council of chalcedon to this canon , were not such a forgery as that of zosimus , yet the most that it could prove , was only this , that the roman church had alwaies the primacy within her diocese , i. e. all metropolitical power ; but not that it had an unlimited primacy in the whole church , which was a thing none of those fathers who lived in the time of the four councils , did ever acknowledge ; but alwaies opposed any thing tending to it , as appears by those very proceedings of paschasinus at the council of chalcedon , and by the canons of that council , and of the council of constantinople . and it is a rare answer to say , that those canons are not allowed by the roman church ; for by that very answer it appears , that they did oppose the pope's supremacy , or else doubtless they would have been allowed there . but that the pope's metropolitical power was confined within the roman diocese , so as not to extend to the italick , we have this pregnant evidence , that it appears by the occasion of the nicene canon , that the main power contested for , was that of ordination ; and it is evident by theodoret and synesius his epistles , that the bishop of alexandria did retain it as his due by virtue of this canon , to ordain the bishops of pentapolis as well as aegypt . but now the bishop of rome did not ordain the bishop of milan who was in the italick diocese ; for s. ambrose was ordained bishop by a synod of italy at the appointment of the emperour valentinian , and by an epistle of pelagius . a. d. . it appears that the bishops of aquileia and milan , were wont to ordain each other ; which , though he would have believed , was only to save charges in going to rome ; yet as that learned and ingenuous person petrus de marcâ observes , the true reason of it , was , because milan was the head of the italick diocese , as appears by the council of aquileia , and therefore the ordination of the bishop of aquileia , did of right belong to the bishop of milan ; and the ordination of the bishop of milan did belong to him of aquileia , as the chief metropolitan of the general synod of the italick diocese . although afterwards the bishops of rome got it so far into their hands , that their consent was necessary for such an ordination , yet that was only when they began more openly to encroach upon the liberties of other churches . but , as the same learned author goes on , those provinces which lay out of italy , did undoubtedly ordain their own metropolitans , without the authority or consent of the bishop of rome , which he there largely proves of the african , spanish , and french churches . it follows then from the scope of the nicene canon , and the practice of the church , that the bishop of rome had a limited jurisdiction , as the bishops of alexandria , and antioch , and other primates had . . that what churches did enjoy priviledges before , had them confirmed by this canon , as not to be altered . for it makes provision against any such alteration , by ordaining that the ancient customs should be in force still . and accordingly we find it decreed in the second canon of the constantinopolitan council , that the same limits of dioceses should be observed , which were decreed in the council of nice ; and that none should intrude to do any thing in the dioceses of others . and by the earnest and vehement epistles of pope leo to anatolius , we see the main thing he had to plead against the advancement of the patriarch of constantinople was , that by this means the most sacred decrees of the council of nice would be violated . we see then , that those priviledges which belonged to churches then , ought still to be inviolably observed ; so that those churches which then had primates and metropolitans of their own , might plead their own right by virtue of the nicene canon . so we find it decreed in that council of ephesus in the famous case of the cyprian bishops ; for their metropolitan being dead ( troilus the bishop of constance ) the bishop of antioch pretended that it belonged to him to ordain their metropolitan , because cyprus was within the civil jurisdiction of the diocese of antioch ; upon this the cyprian bishops make their complaint to the general council at ephesus , and ground it upon that ancient custom which the niccne canon insists on , viz. that their metropolitan had been exempt from the jurisdiction of the bishop of antioch , and was ordained by a synod of cyprian bishops ; which priviledge was not only confirmed to them by the ephesine council , but a general decree passed , that the rights of every province should be preserved whole and inviolate , which it had of old according to ancient custom . which was not a decree made meerly in favour of the cyprian bishops , but a common asserting the rights of metropolitans , that they should be held inviolate . now therefore it appears , that all the churches then were far from being under one of the three patriarchs , of rome , antioch , or alexandria ; for , not only the three dioceses of pontus , asia , and thracia , were exempt ( although afterwards they voluntarily submitted to the patriarch of constantinople ) but likewise all those churches which were in distinct dioceses from these , had primates of their own , who were independent upon any other . upon which account it hath not only been justly pleaded in behalf of the britannick churches , that they are exempt from the jurisdiction of the roman bishop ; but it is ingenuously confessed by father barns , that the britannick church might plead the cyprian priviledge , that it was subject to no patriarch . and , although this priviledge was taken away by force and tumult , yet being restored by the consent of the kingdom , in henry . time , and quietly enjoyed since , it ought to be retained for peace sake , without prejudice of catholicism , and the brand of schism . if so , certainly it can be no schism , to withdraw from the usurped authority of the roman church . but , these things have been more largely insisted on by others , and therefore i pass them over . . from thence it follows , that there was then an equality , not only among the patriarchs ( whose name came not up till some time after the council of nice ) but among the several primates of dioceses , all enjoying equal power and authority over their respective dioceses , without subordination to each other . but here it is vehemently pleaded by some , who yet are no friends to the unlimited power of the roman bishop , that it is hardly conceivable , that he should have no other power in the church , but meerly as head of the roman diocese , and that it appears by the acts of the church he had a regular preheminence above others in ordering the affairs of the church . to which i answer , . if this be granted , it is nothing at all to that vniversal pastorship over the church , which our adversaries contend for , as due by divine right , and acknowledged to be so by consent of the church . let the bishop of rome then quit his former plea , and insist only on this , and we shall speedily return an answer , and shew , how far this canonical primacy did extend . but , as long as he challengeth a supremacy upon other grounds , he forfeits this right , whatever it is , which comes by the canons of the church . . what meerly comes by the canons of the church , cannot bind the church to an absolute submission , in case that authority be abused to the churches apparent prejudice . for the church can never give away her power to secure her self against whatever incroachments tend to the injury of it . this power then may be rescinded by the parts of the church , when it tends to the mischief of it . . this canonical preheminence is not the main thing we dispute with the church of rome ; let her reform her self from all those errours and corruptions which are in her communion , and reduce the church to the primitive purity and simplicity of faith and worship , and then see if we will quarrel with the primacy of the bishop of rome , according to the canons , or any regular preheminence in him meerly in order to the churches peace and unity . but this is not the case between us and them , they challenge an unlimited power , and that by divine right , and nothing else will satisfie them but this , although there be neither any ground in scripture for it , nor any evidence of it in the practice of the ancient church . but however , we must see , what you produce for it ; first , you say , the pope's confirmation was required to all new elected patriarchs . to that i shall return the full and satisfactory answer of the late renowned arch-bishop of paris , petrus de marcâ , where he propounds this as an objection out of baronius , and thus solves it ; that the confirmation of patriarchs by the bishop of rome , was no token of jurisdiction , but only of receiving into communion , and a testimony of his consent to the consecration already performed . and this was no more than was done by other bishops in reference to the bishop of rome himself ; for s. cyprian writing to antonianus about the election of cornelius , saith , that he was not only chosen by the suffrage of the people , and testimony of the clergy ; but that his election was confirmed by all their consent . may not you then as well say , that the bishop of carthage had power over the bishop of rome , because his ordination was confirmed by him , and other african bishops . but any one who had understood better than you seem to do , the proceedings of the church in those ages , would never have made this an argument of the pope's authority over other patriarchs , since , as the same petrus de marcâ observes , it was the custom in those times , that not only the patriarchs but the roman bishop himself upon their election , were wont to send abroad letters , testifying their ordination , to which was added a profession of faith contained in their synodical epistles . upon the receipt of which , communicatory letters were sent to the person newly ordained , to testifie their communion with him , in case there were no just impediment produced . so that this was only a matter of fraternal communion , and importing nothing at all of jurisdiction ; but the bishops of rome , who were ready to make use of all occasions to advance their own grandeur , did in time make use of this for quite other ends , than it was primarily intended ; for , in case of any suspicions and jealousies of any thing that might tend to the dis-service of their see , they would then deny their communicatory letters as simplicius did in the case of the patriarch of alexandria . and in that confirmation of anatolius by leo . which baronius so much insists on , leo himself gives a sufficient account of it , viz. to manifest that there was but one entire communion among them throughout the world . so that if the pope's own judgement may be taken , this confirmation of new elected patriarchs imported nothing of jurisdiction . but , in case the popes did deny their communicatory letters , that did not presently hinder them from the execution of their office ; as appears by the instance of flavianus , the patriarch of antioch : for although three roman bishops successively opposed him , damasus , syricius , and anastasius , and used great importunity with the emperour , that he might not continue in his place , yet because the churches of the orient , asia , pontus , and thracia , did approve of him , and communicate with him , he opposed their consent against the bishops of rome . upon which , and the emperour 's severe checking them for their pride and contention , they at last promised the emperour , that they would lay aside their enmity , and acknowledge him . so that , notwithstanding whatever the roman bishops could do against him , he was acknowledged for a true patriarch , and at last their consent was given only by renewing communion with him ; which certainly is far from being an instance of the pope's power over the other patriarchs . whereby we also see , what little power he had in deposing them ; although you tell us , that it belonged likewise to him to depose unworthy ones , & restore the unjustly deposed by others . but , that the power of deposing bishops was anciently in provincial councils , appears sufficiently by the fifth canon of the nicene council , and by the practice of the church , both before and after it ; and it is acknowledged by petrus de marcâ , that the sole power of deposing bishops , was not in the hands of the bishop of rome , till about eight hundred years since ; and refutes the cardinal perron for saying otherwise ; and afterwards largely proves , that the supreme authority of deposing bishops , was still in provincial councils , and that the pope had nothing to do in it , till the decree of the sardican synod , in the case of athanasius ; which yet , he saith , did not ( as is commonly said ) decree appeals to be made to rome , but only gave the bishop of rome power to review their actions , but still reserving to provincial councils that authority which the nicene council had established them in . all the power which he then had , was only this , that he might decree that the matters might be handled over again , but not that he had the power himself of deposing or restoring bishops : which is proved with that clearness and evidence by that excellent author , that i shall refer you to him for it : and consider the instances produced by you to the contrary . we read ( say you ) of no less than eight several patriarchs of constantinople deposed by the bishop of rome . surely if you had read this your self , you would have quoted the place , with more care and accuracy than you do : for you give us only a blind citation of an epistle of pope nicolaus , to the emperour michael , neither citing the words , nor telling us which it is , when there are several , and those no very short ones neither . but however , it is well chosen , to have a pope's testimony in his own cause , and that such a pope who was then in contest with the patriarch of constantinople , and that too so long after the encroachments of the bishops of rome , it being in the ninth century ; and yet for all this , this pope doth not say those words which you would fasten upon him ; that which he saith , is , that none of the bishops of constantinople , or scarce any of them , were ejected without the consent of the bishop of rome . and then instanceth in maximus , nestorius , accacius , anthimus , sergius , pyrrhus , paulus , petrus ; but his design in this , is only to shew that ignatius the patriarch ought not to have been deposed without his consent . but what is all this to the pope's sole power of deposing ? when even at that time the pope did not challenge it : but , supposing the popes had done it before , it doth not follow that it was in their power to do it , and that the canons had given them right to do it , but least of all certainly that they had a divine right for it , which never was in the least acknowledged by the church as to a deposition of patriarchs , which you contend for . but besides this , you say , sixtus the third , deposed polychronius bishop of hierusalem . whereas sixtus only sent eight persons from a synod at rome to hierusalem , who when they came there , did not offer to depose polychronius by vertue of the popes power ; but a synod of seventy or more neighbour bishops were call'd , by whom he was deposed ; and yet after all this , binius himself condemns those acts which report this story , for spurious ; there being a manifest repugnancy in the time of them , and no such person as polychronius ever mentioned by the ecclesiastical historians of that time , and other fabulous narrations inserted in them . yet these are your goodly proofs of the popes power to depose patriarchs . but we must see whether you have any better success in proving his power to restore such as were deposed ; for which you only instance in athanasius and paulus restored by julius ; whose case must be further examined , which , in short , is this : athanasius being condemned by the synods of tyre and antioch , goes to rome , where he and paulus are received into communion by julius , who would not accept of the decree of the eastern bishops which was sent after him to rome . for pope julius did not formally offer to restore athanasius to his church , but only owned and received him into communion as bishop of alexandria , and that because he looked on the proceedings as unjust in his condemnation . and all that julius himself pleads for , is , not a power to depose or restore patriarchs himself , but only that such things ought not to have been done without communicating those proceedings to him , which the vnity of the church might require . and therefore petrus de marca saith , that baronius , bellarmin , and perron are all strangely out in this story , when they would infer , that the causes of the eastern bishops upon appeal were to be judged by the bishop of rome : whereas all that julius pleads for , is , that such things should not be done by the eastern bishops alone , which concerned the deposition of so great a person in the church as the patriarch of alexandria , but that there ought to be a council both of the eastern and western bishops ; on which account afterwards the sardican synod was call'd . but when we consider with what heat and stomack this was received by the eastern bishops , how they absolutely deny that the western bishops had any more to do with their proceedings , then they had with theirs ; when they say , that the pope by this usurpation was the cause of all the mischief that followed , we see what an excellent instance you have made choice of , to prove the popes power of restoring bishops by divine right , and that this was acknowledged by the whole church . the next thing to be considered is that speech of st. augustine , that in the church of rome there did alwayes flourish the principality of an apostolick chair . as to which his lordship saith , that neither was the word principatus so great , nor the bishops of those times so little , as that principes and principatus are not commonly given them both by the greek and latin fathers of this great and learnedst age of the church made up of the fourth and fift hundred years , alwayes understanding principatus of their spiritual power , and within the limits of their several jurisdictions , which perhaps now and then they did occasionally exceed . and there is not one word in st. augustine , that this principality of the apostolick chair in the church of rome was then , or ought to be now exercised over the whole church of christ as bellarmin insinuates there , and as a. c. would have it here . to all this you say nothing to purpose ; but only tell us , that the bishop by this makes way to some other pretty perversions ( as you call them ) of the same father . for we must know , say you , that he is entering upon that main question concerning the donatists of africk ; and he is so indeed , and that not only for clearing the meaning of st. augustine in the present epistle , but of the whole controversie , to which a great light will be given by a true account of those proceedings . thus then his lordship goes on . and to prove that st. augustine did not intend by principatus here to give the roman bishop any power out of his own limits ( which god knows were far short of the whole church ) i shall make it most manifest out of the same epistle . for afterwards ( saith st. augustine ) when the pertinacy of the donatists could not be restrained by the african bishops , only they gave them leave to be heard by forraign bishops . and after that he hath these words : and yet peradventure melciades the bishop of the roman church , with his colleagues the transmarine bishops , non debuit , ought not to usurp to himself this judgement which was determin'd by seventy african bishops ; tigisitanus , sitting primate . and what will you say if he did not usurp this power ? for the emperour being desired , sent bishops judges , which should sit with him , and determine what was just upon the whole cause . in which passage , saith his lordship , there are very many things observable . as first , that the roman prelate came not in till there was leave for them to go to transmarine bishops . secondly , that if the pope had come in without this leave , it had been an vsurpation . thirdly , that when he did thus come in , not by his own authority , but by leave , there were other bishops made judges with him . fourthly , that these other bishops were appointed and sent by the emperour and his power ; that which the pope least of all will endure . lastly , lest the pope and his adherents should say , this was an vsurpation in the emperour , st. austin tells us a little before in the same epistle still , that this doth chiefly belong ad curam ejus , to the emperours care and charge , and that he is to give an account to god for it . and melciades did sit and judge the business with all christian prudence and moderation . so at this time the roman prelate was not received as pastour of the whole church , say a. c. what he please ; nor had he supremacy over the other patriarchs . in order to the better shaping your answer to this discourse , you pretend to give us a true narrative of the donatists proceedings , by the same figure that lucians book is inscribed de vera historia . there are several things therefore to be taken notice of in your narrative , before we come to your particular answers , whose strength depends upon the matters of fact . first , you give no satisfactory account at all , why , if the popes vniversal pastourship had been then owned , the first appeal on both sides was not made to the bishop of rome ; for in so great a schism as that was between the different parties of caecilian and majorinus , to whom should they have directly gone but to melchiades then bishop of rome ? how comes it to pass that there is no mention at all of his judgement by either party , till constantine had appointed him to be one of the judges ? st. austin indeed pleads in behalf of caecilian , why he would not be judged by the african synod of lxx . bishops , that there were thousands of his colleagues on the other side the sea , whom he might be tryed by ? but why not by the bishop of rome alone , if the vniversal pastorship did belong to him ? but your narrative gives us a rare account , why the donatists did not go to the pope before they went to the emperour , viz. that they durst not appear there , or else knew it would be to little purpose . but by what arguments do you prove they durst not appear there before , when we see they went readily thither after the emperour had appointed rome for the place , where their cause was to be heard ; if they thought it were to so little purpose ? for we see the donatists never except against the place at all , or the person of the bishop of rome ; but upon the command of constantine made known to them by analinus the proconsul of africa , ten of their party go to rome to negotiate their affairs before the delegates . this is but therefore a very lame account , why the first appeal should be to the emperour and not to the pope , if he had been then known to be the vniversal pastour of the church . but say you further , the emperour disliked their proceedings and told them expresly , that it belonged not to him , neither durst he act the part of a judge in a cause of bishops . but on what grounds he durst not do it , we may easily judge by his undertaking it at last , and passing a final judgement in this cause himself after the councils at rome , at arles , could not put an end to it . if constantine had judged it unlawful , could their importunity have excused it ? and could it be any other then unlawful if the pope were the vniversal pastour of the church ? do you think it would be accounted a sufficient plea among you now , for any prince to assume to himself the judgement of any cause already determin'd by the pope , because of the importunity of the persons concerned in it ? indeed constantine did at first prudently wave the business himself , and that i suppose the rather because the donatists in their petition had intreated that some of the bishops of gaul might umpire the business ; either because that was then the place of the emperours residence , or else that gaul under constantius had escaped the late persecution , and therefore were not lyable to the suspicion of those crimes whereof caecilian and felix of aptung were accused . but however though constantine did not sit as judge himself , he appointed marinus , rheticius , and maternus , to joyn with melchiades the bishop of rome in the determining this case . but this he did , you say , to comply with the donatists . what , to joyn other bishops with the head of the church in equal power for deciding controversies ? and all this meerly to comply with the schismatical donatists ? was this , think you , becoming one who believed the popes vniversal pastourship by divine right ? well fare then the answer of others who love to speak plain truths , and impute all these proceedings to constantines ignorance of his duty , being yet but a catechumen in christian religion , and therefore did , he knew not what : but methinks the vniversal pastour or some of those nineteen bishops who sat at rome in this business , or of those two hundred whom you say met afterwards at arles about it , should have a little better instructed him in his duty ; and not let him go so far on in it , as from delegating judges to hear it , and among them the head of the church , to resume it afterwards himself both to hear and determine it . if the emperour had ( as you say ) protested against this as in it self unlawful , would none of the bishops hinder him from doing it ? but where doth constantine profess against it as in it self unlawful ? if so , no circumstances , no importunities could ever make it lawful : unless you think the importunity of josephs mistress would have made adultery no sin in him . if constantine said he would ask the bishops pardon in it , that might be , as looking on them as the more competent judges , but not thinking it unlawful in it self for him to do , as you say . well but you tell us , it was rather the justice and moderation of the roman prelate , that he came not in before it was due time , and the matter orderly brought before him . i am very much of your mind in this , and if all popes since melchiades had used the same justice and moderation , to have staid till things had been orderly brought to them , and not usurped upon the priviledges of other churches , things had been in a far better condition in the christian world then they are . had there been none but such as melchiades , who shewed so much christian prudence and moderation in the management of this business , that great schism , which your church hath caused by her arrogant pretences , might have been prevented . but how come you to know , that this case did properly belong to the popes cognizance ? who told you this ? to be sure not the emperour constantine , who in his epistle to miltiades , extant in eusebius , intimates no such thing ; but only writes to him as one delegated to hear that cause with the other bishops and gives him instructions in order to it . do the donatists or their adversaries mention any such thing ? doth the pope himself ever express or intimate it ? it seems , he wanted your information much at that time . or it may be , like the late pope innocent in the case of the five propositions , he might say , he was bred no divine , and therefore might the less understand his duty . but can it possibly enter into your head , that this case came to the pope at last by way of regular appeal , as you seem to assert afterwards . is this the way of appeals to go to the emperour and petition him to appoint judges to hear the case ? if the case of appeals must be determined from these proceedings , to be sure , the last resort will be to the emperour himself , as well as the first appeal . whether the african bishops gave leave to the donatists to be heard by forraign bishops , or they took it themselves , is not much material ; because the schism was so great at home , that there was no likelihood of any ending the controversie by standing to a fair arbitration among themselves . and therefore there seemed a necessity on both sides of referring the business to some unconcerned persons who might hear the allegations and judge indifferently between them . and no other way did the nineteen bishops at rome proceed with them , but as indifferent arbitrators ; and therefore the witnesses and allegations on both sides were brought before them ; but we read of no power at all challenged absolutely to bind the persons to the judgement of the church of rome , as the final judgement in the case . the question , whether the pope had usurped this power or no , depends not upon the donatists question , whether melchiades ought to have undertaken the judgement of that cause which had been already determined by a synod of lxx . bishops in africk ? but upon st. augustines answer , who justifies the lawfulness of his doing it , because he was thereto appointed by the emperour . but when you say , st. austin gives this answer only per 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by way of condescension to his adversaries way of speaking : you would do well to prove elsewhere from st. austin that when he lay's aside his rhetorick he ever speaks otherwise , but that it would have been an vsurpation in the pope to challenge to himself the hearing of those causes which had been determined by african bishops . but what st. augustines judgement as well as the other african fathers was in this point abundantly appears from the controversies between them and the bishop of rome in the case of appeals . it sufficiently appears already , that neither our saviour , nor the canons of the vniversal church gave the pope leave to hear and judge the causes of st. athanasius and other patriarchs and bishops of the church ; and therefore you were put to your shifts when you run thither for security . but that which follows is notoriously false , that when he did so interpose , no man ( no not the persons themselves who were interessed and suffered by his judgement ) complained or accused him of usurpation ; when in the case of athanasius it is so vehemently pleaded by the eastern bishops that the pope had nothing at all to do in it ; but they might as well call in question what was done at rome , as he what was done at antioch . nay name us any one cause in that age of the church , where the pope did offer to meddle in matters determined by other bishops , which he was not opposed in , and the persons concern'd did not complain and accuse him of meddling with what he had no right to , which are but other words for vsurpation . you say , the bishops whom the emperour sent as judges with the pope , were an inconsiderable number to sway the sentence . it seems three to one are with you an inconsiderable number . but say you , the pope to shew his authority added fifteen other bishops of italy to be his colleagues and assistants in the business . either these fifteen bishops were properly judges in the cause , or only assistants for better management and speedier dispatch ; if they were judges , how prove you that constantine did not appoint them , if they were only assistants and suffragans to the bishop of rome , as is most probable ( except merocles bishop of milan ) what authority did the pope shew in calling his suffragans to his assistance in a matter of that nature , which required so much examination of witnesses . but the pope had more effectually shewn his authority if he had refused the bishops whom constantine sent ; and told him he medled with that which did not concern him , to appoint any judges at all in a matter of ecclesiastical cognisance , and that it was an unsufferable presumption in him to offer to send three underling bishops to sit with him in deciding controversies ; as though he were not the vniversal pastour of the church himself , to whom alone by divine right all such things did belong . such language as this would have become the head of the church ; and in that indeed he had shewn his authority . but for him sneakingly to admit other bishops as joynt-commissioners , forsooth , with him ; and that by the emperours appointment too ; what did he else but betray the rights of his see , and expose his infallible headship to great contempt ? do you think that pope hildebrand or any of his successours would have done this ? no , they understood their power far better then so ; and the emperour should have known his own , for offering such an affront to his holiness . and if his bay-leaves did not secure him , the thunder-bolts of excommunication might have lighted on him to his prejudice . for shame then never say , that pope miltiades shewed his authority ; but rather give him over among those good bishops of rome but bad popes , who knew better how to suffer martyrdom , then assert the authority of the roman see. i pray imagine but paul . or any other of our stout-spirited popes in miltiades his place , would they have taken such things at constantines hands as poor miltiades did ? and , for all that we see , was very well contented too ; and thought he did but his duty in doing what the emperour bid him . would they have been contented to have had a cause once passed the infallible judgement of the roman see , to be resumed again , and handled in another council , as though there could be any suspicion that all things were not rightly carried there ? and that after all this too , the emperour should undertake to give the final decision to it ? would these things have been born with by any of our infallible heads of the church ? but good miltiades must be excused , he went as far as his knowledge carried him , and thought he might do good service to the church in what he did ; and that was it he looked at more then the grandeur of his see. the good bishops then were just crept out of the flames of persecution , and they thought it a great matter that they had liberty themselves , and did not much concern themselves about those vsurpations which the pride and ease of the following ages gave occasion for . they were sorry to see a church that had survived the cruel flames of dioclesians persecution , so suddenly to feel new ones in her own bowels ; that a church whose constitution was so strong as to endure martyrdomes , should no sooner be at ease but she begins to putrifie , and to be fly-blown with heats and divisions among her members ; and that her own children should rake in those wounds , which the violence of her professed enemies had caused in her ; and therefore these good bishops used their care and industry to close them up ; and rather rejoyced they had so good an emperour who would concern himself so much in healing the churches breaches , then dispute his authority or disobey his commands . and if constantine doth express himself unwilling to engage himself to meddle in a business concerning the bishops of the church , it was out of his tender respect to those bishops who had manifested their piety and sincerity so much in their late persecutions , and not from any question of his own authority in it . for that he after sufficiently asserted , not only in his own actions , but when the case of felix of aptung was thought not sufficiently scanned at rome , in appointing ( about four months after the judgement at rome ) aelianus the proconsul of africa to examine the case of felix the bishop of aptung , who had ordained caecilian . to this the donatists pleaded , that a bishop ought not to be tryed by proconsular judgement : to which st. austin answers , that it was not his own seeking , but the emperours appointing , to whose care and charge that business did chiefly belong , of which he must give an account to god. and can it now enter into any head but yours , that for all this the emperour looked on the judgement of this cause as a thing not belonging to his authority ? they who can believe such things as these , and notwithstanding all the circumstances of this story can think the popes vniversal pastourship was then owned , the most i can say of them , is , that they are in a fair way to believe transubstantiation ; there being nothing so improbable , but upon equal grounds they may judge it true . that the pope had no supremacy over other patriarchs , his lordship saith , that , were all other records of antiquity silent , the civil law is proof enough ; and that 's a monument of the primitive church . the text there is , a patriarchâ non datur appellatio . from a patriarch there lyes no appeal . no appeal . therefore every patriarch was alike supreme in his own patriarchate . therefore the pope then had no supremacy over the whole church . therefore certainly not then received as universal pastor . two things you answer to this . . that this reacheth not the difference between patriarchs themselves , who must have some higher ordinary tribunal , where such causes may be heard and determined . very well argued against the pope's power of judging : for , in case of a difference between him and the other patriarchs , who must decide the difference ? himself no doubt ! but still , it is your way to beg that you can never prove ; for you herein suppose the pope to be above all patriarchs , which you know is the thing in dispute . or , do you suppose it very possible , that other patriarchs may quarrel and fall out among themselves , but that the popes are alwaies such mild and good men , that it is impossible any should fall out with them , or they with others ; that still they must stand by as unconcerned in all the quarrels of the christian world , and be ready to receive complaints from all places . if therefore a general council must not be the judge in this case , i pray name somewhat else more agreeable to reason , and the practice of the church . but you answer . . what the law saith , is rightly understood , and must be explicated of inferiour clerks only , who were not ( of ordinary course ) to appeal further than the patriarch , or the primate of their province . for so the council of africk determines . but 't is even there acknowledged , that bishops had power in their own causes to appeal to rome . this answer of yours necessarily leads us to the debates of the great case of appeals to rome , as it was managed between the african bishops , and the bishops of rome , by which we shall easily discover the weakness of your answer , and the most palpable fraud of your citation ; by which we may see , what an excellent cause you have to manage , which cannot be defended but by such frauds as here you make use of , and hope to impose upon your reader by . your answer therefore in the general , is , that the laws concerning appeals , did only concern inferiour clergy-men ; but that bishops were allowed to appeal to rome , even by the council of africk , which not only decreed it , but acknowledged it in an epistle to pope boniface . and therefore for our through understanding the truth in this case , those proceedings of the african church must be briefly explained , and truly represented . two occasions the churches of africa had to determine in the case of appeals to rome ; the first in the milevitan , the second in the carthaginian councils : in both which we have several things very considerable to our purpose . in the milevitan council they decree , that whosoever would appeal beyond the sea , should not be received into communion by any in africa ; which decree is supposed by some to be occasioned by coelestius , having recourse to pope zosimus , after he had been condemned in africa . no doubt , those prudent bishops began to be quickly sensible of the monstrous inconvenience which would speedily follow upon the permission of such appeals to rome ; for by that means they should never preserve any discipline in their churches , but every person , who was called in question for any crimes , would slight the bishops of those churches , and presently appeal to rome . to prevent which mischief , they make that excellent canon , which allows only liberty of appealing to the councils of africa , or to the primates of their province , but absolutely forbids all forein appeals . all the difficulty is , whether this canon only concerned the inferiour clergy , as you say , ( and which is all that the greatest of your side have said in it ) or , whether it doth not take away all appeals of bishops too . for which we need no more than produce the canon it self , as it is extant in the authentick collection of the canons of the african church . in which is an express clause , declaring that the same thing had been often determined in the case of bishops . which , because it strikes home , therefore perron and others have no other shift , but to say , that this clause was not in the original milevitan canons , but was inserted afterwards . but why do not they , who assert such bold things , produce the true authentick copy of these milevitan canons ? that we may see , what is genuine , and what not : but , suppose we should grant , that this clause was inserted afterwards , it will be rather for the advantage , than prejudice of our cause . for which we must consider , that in the time of aurelius bishop of carthage , there had been very many councils celebrated there : no fewer than seventeen justellus and others reckon . but a general council meeting at carthage a. d. . ( which was about three years after that milevitan council which was held . as appears by the answer of innocentius to it , a. d. . ) at the end of the first session they reviewed the canons of those lesser councils , and out of them all composed that codex canonum ecclesiae africanae , as justellus at large proves in the preface to his edition of it . so that if this clause were inserted , it must be inserted then , for it is well known , that the case of appeals was then at large debated ; and by that means it received a more general authority by passing in this african council . and hence it was that this canon passed with this clause into the greek churches ; for balsamon and zonaras both acknowledge it ; and not only they , but many ancient latin copies had it too , and is so received and pleaded by the council of rhemes ; as hincmarus , and others , have already proved . but gracian hath helped it well out , for he hath added a brave antidote at the end of it , by putting to it a very useful clause , nisi forte romanam sedem appellaverit ; by which the canon makes excellent sense , that none shall appeal to rome , unless they do appeal to rome ; for none who have any understanding of the state of those churches at that time , do make the least question , but the intent of the canon was to prohibit appeals to rome ; but then , say they , they were only the appeals of the inferiour clergy , which were to be ended by the bishops of their own province . but this answer is very unreasonable on these accounts . . if appeals do of right belong to the bishop of rome , as vniversal pastor of the church , then , why not the appeals of the inferiour clergy , as well as bishops ? indeed , if appeals were challenged only by virtue of the canons , and those canons limit one , and not the other ( as the most eager pleaders for appeals in that age , pleaded only the canons of the church for them ) then there might be some reason , why one should be restrained , and not the other ; but if they belong to him by divine right , then all appeals must necessarily belong to him . . if appeals belong to the pope , as vniversal pastor , then no council or persons had any thing to do to determine who should appeal , and who not . for this were an usurping of the pope's priviledge , for he to whom only the right of appeals belongs , can determine , who should appeal , and who not ; and where , and by whom those controversies should be ended . so that the very act of the council in offering to limit appeals , implies that they did not believe any such vniversal pastorship in the pope ; for , had they not done so , they would have waited his judgement , and not offered to have determined such things themselves . . the appeals of the upper and inferiour clergy , cannot be supposed to be separate from each other . for the appeal of a presbyter doth suppose the impeachment of the bishop for some wrong done to him , as in the case of apiarius accusing vrban the bishop of sicca for excommunicating him . so that the bishop becomes a party in the appeal of a presbyter . and if appeals be allowed to the bishop , it is supposed to be in his favour , for clearing of his right the better ; and if it be denied to the presbyter , it would savour too much of injustice and partiality . . the reason of the canon extends to one as well as the other , which must be supposed to prevent all those troubles and inconveniencies which would arise from the liberty of appeals to rome ; and , would not these come as well by the appeals of bishops , as of inferiour clergy ? nay , doth not the canon insist on that , that no appeals should be made from the council of bishops , or the primates of africa ; but , in case of bishops appeals , this would be done as well as the other : and therefore they are equally against the reason and design of the canon . . the case of presbyters , may be as great and considerable as that of bishops , and as much requiring the judgement of the vniversal pastor of the church . as , for instance , that very case which probably gave occasion to the milevitan canon , viz. the going of coelestius to rome , being condemned of heresie in africa : now , what greater cause could there be made an appeal to rome in , than in so great a matter of faith as that was , about the necessity of grace . and therefore petrus de marcá proves at large against perron , that in the epistle of innocent to victricius , where it is said , that the greater causes must be referred to the apostolick see , is not to be understood only of the causes of bishops , but may referr to the causes of presbyters too , i. e. when they either concern matter of faith , or some doubtful piece of church-discipline . . the pope , notwithstanding this canon , looked on himself as no more hindred from receiving the appeals of presbyters , than those of bishops . if therefore any difference had been made by any act of the church , surely the pope would have remanded presbyters back to their own provinces again ; but , instead of that , we see , he received the appeal of apiarius . but , for this , a rare answer is given , viz. that though the presbyters were forbidden to appeal , yet the pope was not forbidden to receive them , if they did appeal . but , to what purpose then were such prohibitions made , if the pope might by his open incouragement of them upon their appeals to him , make them not value such canons at all ; for they knew , if they could but get to rome , they should be received for all them . notwithstanding all which hath been said , you tell us , that in the council of africk it was acknowledged , that bishops had power in their own cause , to appeal to rome ; for which you cite in your margent , part of an epistle of the council to boniface . but , with what honesty and integrity you do this , will appear by the story . apiarius then appealing to zosimus , he sends over faustinus to africa , to negotiate the business of appeals , and to restore apiarius , for which he pleads the nicene canons ( an account of which will be given afterwards ) the fathers all protest they could find no such thing there , but they agree to send deputies into the east , to fetch the true canons thence ( as hath been related already ) in the mean time zosimus dyes , and boniface succeeds him ; but for the better satisfaction of the pope , the council of carthage dispatch away a letter to boniface , to give him an account of their proceedings ; in which epistle ( extant in the african code of canons ) after they have given an account of the business of apiarius , they proceed to the instructions which faustinus brought with him to africa , the chief of which is that concerning appeals to be made to rome , and then follow those words which you quote , in which they say , that in a letter written the year before to zosimus , they had granted liberty to bishops , to appeal to rome ; and that therein they had intimated so much to him . thus far you are right ; but there is usually some mystery couched in your , &c. for you know very well , where to cut off sentences ; for , had you added but the next words , they had spoiled all your foregoing ; there being contained in them , the full reason of what went before , viz. that because the pope pretended that the appeals of bishops were contained in the nicene canons , they were contented to yield that it should be so , till the true canons were produced . and is this now all their acknowledgement , that bishops might in their own causes appeal to rome , when they made only a provisional decree , what should be done till the matter came to a resolution ? but if you will throughly understand what their final judgement was in this business , i pray read their excellent epistle to pope celestine , who succeeded boniface ; after they had received the nicene canons out of the east . which being so excellent a monument of antiquity , and giving so great light to our present controversie , i shall at large recite and render it , so far as concerns this business . after our bounden duty of salutation , we earnestly beseech you , that hereafter you admit not so easily to your ears those that come from hence , and that you admit no more into communion , those whom we have cast out : for your reverence will easily perceive , that this is forbid by the council of nice . for if this be taken care for , as to the inferiour clergy and laity , how much more would it have it to be observed in bishops ; that so they who are in their own province suspended from communion , be not hastily or unduly admitted by your holiness . let your holiness also reject the wicked refuges of priests and inferiour clerks ; for no canon of the fathers hath taken that from the church of africk ; and the decrees of nice hath subjected both the inferiour clergy , and bishops , io their metropolitans . for they have most wisely and justly provided , that every business be determined in the place where it begun : and that the grace of the holy spirit will not be wanting to every province , that so equity may be prudently discovered , and constantly held by christ's priests . especially seeing that it is lawful to every one , if he be offended , to appeal to the council of the province , or even to an vniversal council . vnless perhaps some body believe that god can inspire to every one of us , the justice of examination of a cause , and refuse it to a multitude of bishops assembled in council . or , how can a judgement made beyond the sea be valid , to which the persons of necessary witnesses cannot be brought , by reason of the infirmity of their sex and age , or of many other intervening impediments . for this sending of men to us from your holiness , we do not find commanded by any synod of the fathers . and as for that which you did long since send to us by faustinus our fellow-bishop , as belonging to the council of nice , we could not find it in the truest copies of the council , sent by holy cyril our colleague , bishop of alexandria , and by the venerable atticus bishop of constantinople : which also we sent to your predecessor boniface , of happy memory , by innocent a presbyter , and marcellus a deacon . take heed also of sending to us any of your clerks for executors , to those who desire it , lest we seem to bring the swelling pride of the world into the church of christ , which beareth the light of simplicity , and the brightness of humility before them that desire to see god. and concerning our brother faustinus ( apiarius being now for his wickedness cast out of the church of christ ) we are confident , that our brotherly love continuing through the goodness and moderation of your holiness , africa shall no more be troubled with him . thus i have at large produced this noble monument of the prudence , courage , and simplicity of the african fathers ; enough to put any reasonable man out of the fond conceit of an vniversal pastorship of the bishop of rome . i wonder not that baronius saith , there are some hard things in this epistle , that perron sweats and toils so much to so little purpose , to enervate the force of it ; for , as long as the records of it last , we have an impregnable bulwark against the vsurpations of the church of rome . and methinks you might blush for shame to produce those african fathers , as determining the appeals of bishops to rome , who , with as much evidence and reason , as courage and resolution , did finally oppose it . what can be said more convincingly against these appeals , than is here urged by them : that they have neither authority from councils , nor any foundation in justice and equity ; that god's presence was as well in africk as rome ( no doubt then they never imagined any infallibility there ) that the proceedings of the roman bishop were so far from the simplicity and humility of the gospel , that they tended only to nourish swelling pride , and secular ambition in the church . that the pope had no authority to send legats to hear causes , and they hoped they should be no more troubled with such as faustinus was . all these things are so evident in this testimony , that it were a disparagement to it to offer more at large to explain them . i hope then , this will make you sensible of the injury you have done the african fathers , by saying , that they determined , the causes of bishops might be heard at rome . your answer to the place of s. gregory , which his lordship produceth concerning appeals , viz. that the patriarch is to put a final end to those causes , which come before him by appeal from bishops and arch-bishops , is the very same , that it speaks only of the inferiour clergy , and therefore is taken off already . but you wonder his lordship should expose to view the following words of s. gregory , where there is neither metropolitan , nor patriarch of that diocese , there they are to have recourse to the see apostolick , as being the head of all churches . then surely it follows , say you , the bishop of rome 's jurisdiction , is not only over the western , and southern provinces , but over the whole church , whither the jurisdiction of patriarchs and metropolitans never extended . see how well you make good the common saying , that ignorance is the cause of admiration ; for , wherefore should you wonder at his lordships producing these words ; if you had either understood , or considered the abundant answers which he gives to them ? . that if there be a metropolitan , or a patriarch , in those churches , his judgement is final , and there ought to be no appeal to rome . . it is as plain , that in those ancient times of church-government , britain was never subject to the see of rome ( of which afterwards . ) . it will be hard for any man to prove , that there were any churches then in the world , which were not under some either patriarch or metropolitan . . if any such were , 't is gratis dictum , and impossible to be proved , that all such churches , where-ever seated in the world , were obliged to depend on rome . and , do you still wonder why his lordship produces these words ? i may more justly wonder why you return no answer to what his lordship here sayes . but still the caput omnium ecclesiarum sticks with you ; if his lordship hath not particularly spoken to that , it was , because his whole discourse was sufficient to a man of ordinary capacity , to let him see , that no more could be meant by it , but some preheminence of that church above others in regard of order and dignity , but no such thing as vniversal power and jurisdiction was to be deduced from it . and if gregory understood more by it , as his lordship saith , 't is gratis dictum , and gregory himself was not a person to be believed in his own cause . but now , as you express it , his lordship takes a leap from the church of rome , to the church of england : no , neither his lordship , nor we , take a leap from thence hither ; but you are the men who leap over the alps , from the church of england , to that of rome , we plead as his lordship doth truly , that in the ancient times of the church , britain was never subject to the see of rome , but being one of the western dioceses of the empire , it had a primate of its own . this , you say , his lordship should have proved , and not meerly said . but , what an unreasonable man are you , who would put his lordship to prove negatives ; if you challenge a right which the pope hath over us , it is your business to prove it ; his lordship gave a sufficient reason for what he said , in saying that britain was one of the dioceses of the empire , and therefore had a primate of her own . this you deny not , but say , this only proves , that the inferiour clergy could not appeal to rome . what again ? but this subterfuge hath been prevented already . but to pass by what without any shadow of proof you say of the patriarch of constantinople 's being subject to the pope ; and pope urban 's calling anselm the patriarch of the other world ; which we are far from making the least ground to make canterbury a patriarchal see ; which , as far as concerns the rights of primacy , was so long before the synod of bar in apulia ; we come to that which is more material , viz. your attempt to prove , that britain was anciently subject to the see of rome ; for which you instance in wilfrid arch-bishop of york appealing to rome , about a. d. . who was restored to his bishoprick by virtue of the sentence passed in his behalf at rome ; and so being a second time expelled , appealed as formerly , and was again restored . to which i shall return you a clear and full answer in the words of another arch-bishop , the late learned l. primate of ireland . the most famous , saith he , ( i had almost said the only ) appellant from england to rome that we read of before the conquest , was wilfride archbishop of york , who , notwithstanding that he gained sentence upon sentence at rome in his favour ; and notwithstanding that the pope did send express nuncio's into england , on purpose to see his sentence executed ; yet he could not obtain his restitution or the benefit of his sentence for six years during the raigns of king egbert and alfrede his son . yea king alfrede told the nuncio's expresly , that he honoured them as his parents for their grave lives and honourable aspects ; but he could not give any assent to their legation , because it was against reason , that a person twice condemned by the whole council of the english should be restored upon the popes letter . if they had believed the pope to be their competent judge , either as universal monarch , or so much as patriarch of brittain , or any more then an honourable arbitratour ( which all the patriarchs were , even without the bounds of their proper jurisdictions ) how comes it to pass that two kings successively , and the great councils of the kingdom , and the other archbishop theodore with all the prime ecclesiasticks , and the flower of the english clergy , did so long and so resolutely oppose so many sentences and messages from rome , and condemn him twice whom the pope had absolved ? consider that wilfride was an archbishop , not an inferiour clerk ; and if an appeal from england to rome had been proper or lawful in any case , it had been so in this case . but it was otherwise determined by those who were most concerned . malmsbury supposeth , either by inspiration , or upon his own head , that the king and the archbishop theodore , were smitten with remorse before their deaths , for the injury done to wilfride , and the slighting the popes sentence , letter , and legats . but the contrary is most apparently true ; for first , it was not king alfrede alone , but the great council of the kingdome also ; not theodore alone , but the main body of the clergy , that opposed the popes letter , and the restitution of wilfride in that manner as it was decreed at rome . secondly , after alfrede and theodore were both dead , we find the popes sentence , and wilfrides restitution , still opposed by the surviving bishops in the raign of alfredes son . to clear the matter past contradiction , let us consider the ground of this long and bitter contention ; wilfride the archbishop was become a great pluralist , and had ingrossed into his hands too many ecclesiastical dignities . the king and the church of england thought fit to deprive him of some of them , and to confer them upon others . wilfride appealed from their sentence to rome . the pope gave sentence after sentence in favour of wilfride . but for all his sentences , he was not , he could not be restored , untill he had quitted two of his monasteries which were in question , hongestilldean , and ripon , which of all others he loved most dearly , and where he was afterwards interred . this was not a conquest , but a plain waving of his sentences from rome , and yielding of the question ; for those had been the chief causes of the controversie . so the king and the church after alfredes death still made good his conclusion , that it was against reason , that a person twice condemned by the whole council of the english , should be restored upon the popes bull. and as he did not , so neither did they give any assent to the popes legation . this i hope may suffice as a most sufficient answer to your objection from wilfrides appeal . but you would seem to urge yet further for the ancient subjection of britain to the church of rome , in these words , again , is it not manifest out of him ( bede ) , that even the primitive original institution of our english bishops is from rome ? and for this you cite a letter of pope gregory . to augustine the monk , whom you call our english apostle ; in which gregory grants to him the use of the pall , the proper badge or sign of archiepiscopal dignity , and that he condescended , that he should ordain twelve bishops under his jurisdiction , &c. behold here , say you , the original charter , as i may say , of the primacy of canterbury ; in this letter and mandate of the pope it is founded ; nor can it with any colour of reason be drawn from other origin . and by vertue of this grant , have all the succeeding bishops of that see enjoyn'd the dignity and authority of primats of this nation . from whence you very civilly charge his lordship , either with gross ignorance if he knew it not ; or with great ingratitude if he knew it . to which i answer ; that his lordship knowing this no doubt very well , that gregory sent austin into england , &c. could not from thence think himself bound to submit to the roman bishop ; and it had been more pertinent to your purpose , not to charge him with ingratitude , but with disobedience . for that was it which you ought to prove hence , that the archbishop of canterbury ought still to be subject to the bishop of rome , because gregory . made augustine the first archbishop of canterbury . a wonderful strong argument no doubt ! which out of charity to you , we must further examine ; for you tell us , the original charter of the primacy of canterbury is contained in that grant. to satisfie you as to this , two things are to be considered , the primacy it self , and the exercise of it by a particular person in some particular place . if you speak of the primacy it self , i. e. the independent right of governing the churches within the provinces of britain , then we utterly deny that this was contained in that grant. for britain having been a province before , in which bishops did govern independently on any forrein bishop , no forrein bishops could take away that priviledge from it . i will not stand here to deduce the history of the bishops of britain , before augustines coming into england ; but it is as certain that there were such , as it is that st. augustine ever came hither . for not only all our own historians and bede himself confess it ; but it is most evident from the subscriptions of three of them to the first council of arles , eborius of york , restitutus of london , and adelfius de civitate coloniâ londinensium ( which some will have to be a mistake for colonia camaloduni , whether by that , colchester , maldon , or winchester be meant as it is differently thought ) from the presence of some of them at the sardican synod and the council of ariminum , as appears by athanasius and others ; but this i suppose you will not deny , that there were bishops in england before austin came . and , that these bishops had then no dependence on the see of rome , if it were not sufficiently evident from other arguments , the relation of the proceedings in bede himself between austin and them , about submission , would abundantly discover , as likewise that there was then an archbishop with metropolitical power over them , whose ancient seat had been caerleon . but i consider not this primacy now as in any particular place , but in general as belonging to the provinces of britain , which i say had a primacy belonging to it , ( whether at york or london is not material ) at the time of the council of nice ( according to what hath been formerly said about the state of churches then ) now the council of nice takes care that the priviledges of all churches should be preserved , i. e. that where there had been a primacy it should so continue . now therefore i ask , how came this priviledge of britain to be lost , which was not only confirmed with others by the nicene council , but by that of chalcedon and ephesus , in which the ancient priviledges of churches are secured ? what right had austin the monk to cassate the ancient metropolitical power of the britannick church , and to require absolute subjection to himself ? if the pope made him archbishop of canterbury , by what right was he primate over the britain church ? how came the archbishop then in being to lose his primacy by austins coming into england ? was it because the britannick church was then over-run with pagan-saxons , and the visible power of it confined to a narrow compass ? yet i doubt not , but there were many brittish christians living here among the saxons , though oppressed by them , as they were after by the normans ( for , where is it that any conquest hath carried away all the inhabitants ? ) and that these did many of them retain their christianity , though not daring publickly to own it , there are many not improbable circumstances to lead us to suppose . but we will grant that the face of the britannick church was only in wales ; what follows thence ? that the whole province had lost its right ? let us suppose a case like this ; as that the church of rome should be over-run with a barbarous people ( as it was by the goths and vandals ) and the inhabitants destroyed ; these barbarous people continuing in possession of it , and that a bishop should have been sent from britain to convert them to the faith , and upon their conversion to govern those churches , and should be made bishop of that place by the brittish bishops ; whether would he be bound to continue alwayes in subjection to them or no ? if not ; but you say , by his succession in the see of rome he enjoyes the priviledges of that see , though the inhabitants be altered ; the same i say of the britannick churches , though the inhabitants were altered , and saxons succeeded the britains , yet the priviledge of the church remains still as to its primacy and independency . and therefore the popes making augustine archbishop , so as to give him withall the primacy over the churches in the province of britain , was an vsurpation upon the rights of our church , which had an absolute and independent primacy within it self ; as it was in the case of the cyprian bishop . as supposing those ancient sects of churches which are over-run with turks should again be converted to christianity , the bishops of those churches as of ephesus or the like would enjoy the same rights which the ancient bishops had ; so we say it was in our case , though the nation was then over-spread with paganism , yet christianity returning , the priviledges of our churches did return with it ; and whosoever were rightly consecrated bishops of them would enjoy the same rights which they did before . so that gregory might make austin a bishop and send him to convert this nation , by which he was capable to govern the churches here which he did convert , but he could not give to him the right over these churches , which gregory had no power over himself ; neither could austin or any other archbishop of canterbury give away the primacy of england by submitting himself to the roman see. what therefore is gregories grant to austin , to the primacy of england ? if you ask then , how the archbishops of canterbury come to be primates of england ? i answer , . this primacy must be lodged somewhere ; and it is not unalterably fixed to any certain place , because the primacy belongs to the church and not to a particular see. . it is in the power of princes to fix the metropolitan see in what place is judged most convenient ; thence have been the frequent removes of episcopal and see's ; as is evident in many examples in ecclesiastical history , particularly in justiniana prima made a metropolis by justinian . . where ever the primacy is lodged it retains its ancient priviledges ; so that there is no need of a succession of our archbishops from the brittish archbishops of caerleon to preserve the brittish primacy ; but that see being removed by the power of princes ; the primacy still remains the same , that it was in the brittish metropolitans . and thus i hope i have shewn you , that the original charter of the archbishop of canterbury's primacy , was not contained in the popes grant to austin . from hence we proceed again to the case of the african churches ; for ( as his lordship saith ) the african prelates finding that all succeeding popes were not of melchiades his temper , set themselves to assert their own liberties , and held it out stoutly against zozimus , boniface , and caelestine . who were successively bishops of rome . at last , it was concluded in the sixth council of carthage , ( wherein were assembled two hundred and seventeen bishops , of which st. augustine himself was one ) that they would not give way to such a manifest encroachment upon their rights and liberties ; and thereupon gave present notice to caelestine to forbear sending his officers amongst them , lest he should seem to induce the swelling pride of the world into the church of christ. and this is said to have amounted into a formal separation from the church of rome ; and to have continued for the space of somewhat more then one hundred years . for which his lordship produceth two publick instruments extant among the ancient councils ; the one an epistle from boniface . in whose time the reconciliation to rome is said to be made by eulalius then bishop of carthage ; but the separation , instigante diabolo , by the temptation of the devil . the other is an exemplar precum , or copy of the petition of the same eulalius , in which he damns and curses all those his predecessours which went against the church of rome . now his lordship urges from hence ; either these instruments are true , or false . if they be false , then boniface . and his accomplices at rome , or some for them are notorious forgers , and that of records of great consequence to the government and peace of the whole church of christ , and to the perpetual infamy of that see , and all this foolishly and to no purpose : on the other side , if these instruments be true ; then 't is manifest that the church of africk separated from the church of rome ; which separation was either unjust , or just ; if unjust then st. austin , eugenius , fulgentius , and all those bishops and other martyrs which suffered in the vandalike persecution , dyed in actual and unrepented schism , and out of the church ; if it were just , then is it far more lawful for the church of england by a national council to cast off the popes vsurpation , as she did , than it was for the african church to separate ; because then the african church excepted only against the pride of rome in case of appeals , and two other canons less material ; but the church of england excepts ( besides this grievance ) against many corruptions in doctrine , with which rome at that time was not tainted . and st. austin and those other famous men durst not thus have separated from rome , had the pope had that powerful principality over the whole church of christ , and that by christs own ordinance and institution as a. c. pretends he had . this is the substance of his lordships discourse to which we must consider what answer you return . which in short is , that you dare not assert the credit of those two instruments , but are very willing to think them forgeries ; but you say , the schismatical separation of the african church from the roman is inconsistent with the truth of story , and confuted by many pregnant and undeniable instances , which prove that the africans notwithstanding the context in the sixth council of carthage touching matter of appeals , were alwayes in true catholick communion with the roman church , even during the term of this pretended separation . for which you produce the testimony of pope caelestine concerning st. austin , the proceeding of pope leo in the case of lupicinus , the testimonies of eugenius , fulgentius , gregory , and the presence of some african bishops at rome . to all which i answer ; that either the african fathers did persist in the decree of the council of carthage , or they did not : if they did persist in it , and no separation followed ; then the casting off the vsurpations of the roman see cannot incur the guilt of schism ; for these african bishops did that , and it seems continued still in the roman communion ; by which it is evident that the roman church was not so far degenerated then as afterwards , or that the authority of those persons was so great in the church , that the roman bishops durst not openly break with them , which is a sufficient account of what caelestine saith concerning st. austin , that he lived and dyed in the communion of the roman church . if you say the reason why they were in communion with the roman church was because they did not persist ; you must prove it by better instances then you have here brought ; for some of them are sufficient proofs of the contrary . as appears by the case of lupicinus an african bishop appealing to leo , who indeed was willing enough to receive him ; but what of that ? did not the african bishops of mauritania caesariensis excommunicate him notwithstanding that appeal , and ordained another in his place ; and therefore the pope very fairly sends him back to be tryed by the bishops of his province . which instance as it argues the popes willingness to have brought up appeals among them , so it shews the continuance of their stoutness in opposing them . and even pope gregory so long after , though in his time the business of appeals was much promoted at rome ; yet he dares not challenge them from the bishops of africa , but yields to them the enjoyment of those priviledges which they said they had enjoyed from the apostles times . and the testimonies of eugenius , and fulgentius imply nothing of subjection to rome , but a praeeminence which that church had above all others , which it might have without the other ; as london may i hope be the head-city of england , and yet all other cities not express subjection to it . but if after that council of carthage the bishops of rome did by degrees encroach upon the liberties of the african churches , there is this sufficient account to be given of it ; that as the roman bishops were alwayes watchful to take advantages to inhance their power , and that especially when other churches were in a suffering condition , so a fit opportunity fell out for them to do it in africa ; for not long after that council of carthage , fell out that dismal persecution of the african churches by the irruption of the vandals ; in which all the catholick bishops were banished out of africa , or lived under great sufferings ; and by a strict edict of gensericus , no new bishops were suffered to be ordained in the places of the former . this now was a fair opportunity for the bishop of rome to advance his authority among the suffering bishops ; st. peters pretended successour loving to fish in troubled waters , and it being fatal to rome from the first foundation of it , to advance her self by the ruins of other places . but we are call'd off from the ruins of other churches , to observe the methods whereby the popes grew great under the emperours which his lordship gives an account of from constantines time to charles the great , about five hundred years , which begins thus , so soon as the emperours became christian , the church began to be put in better order ; for the calling and authority of bishops over the inferiour clergy , that was a thing of known use and benefit for preservation of vnity and peace in the church . which was confessed by st. hierom himself , and so settled in mens minds from the very infancy of the church , that it had not been to that time contradicted by any . the only difficulty then was to accommodate the places and precedencies of bishops , among themselves , for the very necessity of order and government . to do this the most equal and impartial way was , that as the church is in the common-wealth , not the common-wealth in it , ( as optatus tells us ) so the honours of the church should follow the honours of the state ; and so it was insinuated if not ordered ( as appears ) by the canons of the councils of chalcedon and antioch . and this was the very fountain of the papal greatness ; the pope having his residence in the great imperial city . but precedency is one thing , and authority another ; it was thought fit therefore , that among bishops there should be a certain subordination and subjection . the empire therefore being cast into several divisions ( which they call'd dioceses ) every diocese contained several provinces , every province several bishopricks ; the chief of a diocese was call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and sometimes a patriarch ; the chief of a province a metropolitan ; next the bishops in their several dioceses ( as we now use that word ) , among these there was effectual subjection respectively grounded upon canon , and positive law , in their several quarters ; but over them , none at all : all the difference there , was but honorary not authoritative . to all this part of his lordships discourse , you only say , that it is founded upon his own conjectural presumptions more then upon any thing else ; and that you have shewed a far different fountain of the popes authority from tu es petrus , & super hanc petram , &c. the meaning of what you say , is , that his lordships discourse hath too much truth and reason to be answered solidly ; but because it is against the popes interest you defie him , and cross your self , and cry , tu es petrus , &c. and think , this will prevent its doing you any harm . for if we look for one dram of reason against it , we must look somewhere else then in your book , though you tell us , you have often evidenced the contrary ; but when and where i must profess my self to seek , and i doubt shall continue so to the end of your book . but his lordship proceeds . if the ambition of some particular persons did attempt now and then to break these bounds , it is no marvel : for no calling can sanctifie all that have it . and socrates tells us , that in this way the bishops of alexandria and rome advanced themselves to a great height 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 even beyond the quality of bishops . now upon view of story it will appear , that what advantage accrewed to alexandria , was gotten by the violence of theophilus patriarch there . a man of exceeding great learning and no less violence ; and he made no little advantage out of this , that the empress eudoxia used his help for the casting of st. chrysostome out of constantinople . but the roman prelats grew by a steady and constant watchfulness upon all occasions to increase the honour of that see. interposing and assuming to themselves to be vindices canonum ( as greg. naz. speaks ) defenders and restorers of the canons of the church , which was a fair pretence and took extreamly well . but yet the world took notice of this their aim . for in all contestations between the east and west , which were not small , nor few , the western bishops objected levity to the eastern ; and they again arrogancy to the bishops of the west , as bilius observes , and upon very warrantable testimonies . for all this , the bishop of rome continued in good obedience to the emperour , enduring his censures and judgements : and being chosen by the clergy and people of rome , he accepted from the emperour , the ratification of that choice . insomuch , that about the year . when all italy was on fire with the lombards , and pelagius the second constrained through the necessity of the times contrary to the example of his predecessours , to enter upon the popedome without the emperours leave , st. gregory then a deacon was shortly after sent on embassie to excuse it . to all these things you give one general answer , by calling them impertinencies , which is a general name for all that you cannot answer . the popes obedience to the emperours you say was constrained , their ratifications of popes elections only declaring them canonical , socrates was a heretick , the eastern bishops partial : this is the substance of all you say ; whereof the two former are manifestly contrary to the truth of stories ( as , when you desire it , may at large be manifested ) and the two latter the pitiful shifts of such who have nothing else to say . but , though you cannot answer particulars , you can overthrow his whole design ( though you cannot fiddle , it seems you can conquer cities , but they must be very weak then . ) his main design , you tell us , is to overthrow the pope's supremacy , by shewing , it was not lawful to appeal to rome ; but catholick authours ( to be sure you are in the number ) frame an unanswerable argument for his supremacy , even from the contrary , thus ; it was ever held lawful to appeal to rome in ecclesiastical affairs , from all the parts of christendom ; therefore , say they , the pope must needs be supreme judge in ecclesiastical matters . this is evidenced out of the , and , canons of the council of sardica , accounted anciently an appendix of the council of nice , and often cited as the same with it . will you give us leave to come near and handle this unanswerable argument a little ? for persons of your profession use to be very shie of that . but however , since it is exposed to common view , we may take leave to do it . and seriously , upon consideration of all the parts and circumstances of it , i am of your mind , without flattering you , that it is an unanswerable argument , but quite to another purpose than you brought it for , even against the pope's supremacy , as i shall presently discover ; so that those catholick authors have served you just as lazarillo did his blind master , in bidding him leap over the water , that he might run his head full butt against the tree . for that which your best authors shun as much as may be , and use their best arts to get besides it , you run blindly , and therefore boldly upon it , as though it were an excellent argument to your purpose . you say , the evidence for appeals , is from the canons of the sardican synod , but if this be an unanswerable argument for the pope's supremacy . . how come these appeals to be pleaded from the sardican synod ? . how come these appeals to be denied , notwithstanding the canons of it ? the former will prove that the supremacy , if granted from hence , was not acknowledged from divine right ; the latter , that it was not universally acknowledged by the church after ; and therefore both of them will make an unanswerable argument against that which you would prove , viz. the pope's supremacy . first , if the pope's supremacy be evidenced from hence . . how comes it at all to depend on the canons ? . why no sooner than the canons of sardica ? . why not at all mentioned in them ? . how comes the pope's supremacy , if of divine right , to depend at all upon the canons of the church ? we had thought it had been much more to your purpose , not to have mentioned any canons at all of the church about it , but to have produced evidences , that this was constantly acknowledged as of divine institution . but we must bear with you , in not producing that which is not to be found . for nothing can be more apparent , than that when the popes began to pierk up , they pleaded nothing but some canons of the church for what they did , as julius to the oriental bishops , zosimus to the african , and so others . if it had been ever thought then , that this supremacy was of divine right ; what senseless men were these , to make use of the worst pleas , and never mention the best . for , supposing they had such a supremacy granted them by the canons of the church , doth not this imply that their authority did depend upon the churches grant ? and , what the church might give for her own conveniency , she might take it away , when she saw it abused to her apparent prejudice . and therefore if they had thought that god had commanded all churches to be subject to them , it was weakly done of them to plead nothing but the canons of the church for it . . why no sooner than the canons of sardica ? was the church of rome without her supremacy till that time ? will no canons of the church evidence it before them ? when this council was not held till eleven years after the death of constantine . had the pope no right of appeals till it was decreed here ? yes , zosimus pleads the nicene canons for it ; but upon what grounds , will appear suddenly . . why is not the pope's supremacy mentioned as the ground of these appeals then ? certainly those western bishops , who made those canons , should have only recognized the divine right of the pope's supremacy ; and not made a canon in such a manner as they do ; that would make any one be confident they never knew the popes supremacy . for their decree runs thus ; that in case any bishop thought himself unjustly condemned ; if it seem good to you , let us honour the memory of peter the apostle , that it be written by those who have judged the cause , to julius the bishop of rome ; and if it seem good , let the judgement be renewed , and let them appoint such as may take cognizance of it . were these men mad to make such a canon as this , if they believed the popes supremacy of divine institution ? what a dwindling expression is that , for the head of the church , to call him bishop of rome only , when a matter concerning his supremacy is decreeing ? and why to julius bishop of rome , i pray ? had it not been better to s. peter's successor , whosoever he be ? so it would have been , no doubt , if they had intended a divine or vniversal right . and why for the honour of s. peter 's memory ? had it not been more becoming them to have said , out of obedience to christ's commands , which made him head of the church ? and all this come in with an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , if it please you ? what , if it please you , whether the pope should be vniversal pastor , or no ? if it please you , whether the church should be built super hanc petram , or no ? if it please you , whether the bishop of rome succeeds s. peter , or no ? are these the men that give such evidence for the popes supremacy ? you had better by far never mention them ; for if that was the lesson they had to say , never any boyes at school said their lesson worse than they do . they wanted such as you among them , to have penned their canon for them ; and no doubt it had run in a better strain ; for as much as our lord and saviour did appoint s. peter head of the church , and the bishop of rome to succed him as christ's vicar upon earth ; these are to let you know that he hath an absolute power by divine right over all persons and causes , and that men are bound to obey him upon pain of eternal damnation . this had been something like , if you could have found in some canons of the church ; but , to produce a poor sneaking , if it please you , what do you else but betray the majesty and grandeur of your church ? and yet after all this , no such thing as absolute appeals to rome are decreed here neither , but only that the bishop of rome should have power to review the case ; and in case it was thought necessary , that other persons should be appointed to examine it . but , how much a review differs from an appeal , and that nothing but a power to review cases is here given to the bishop of rome ; are fully manifested by petrus de marcâ , to whom i again referr you . so that we see from hence you have very comfortable evidence for the pope's supremacy . . suppose it had been decreed here , you had not gained much by it ; because , notwithstanding this decree , it was far from being acknowledged by the vniversal church . which i prove from hence , that the sardican canons were not received by the church : nothing can be more evident , than that these canons were not so much as known by the african bishops , when pope zosimus fraudulently sent them under the name of the nicene canons ; insomuch that cusanus questions , whether ever any such thing were determined by the sardican synod or no : and it appears by s. austin , that the council of sardica was of no great credit in africa ; for when fortunius the donatist-bishop would prove that the sardican synod had written to some of their party , because one donatus was mentioned in it ; s. austin tells him , it was a synod of arrians ; by which it seems very improbable , that they had ever received the decrees of the western , but only of the eastern part of it , which adjourned to philippopolis . neither was this ever acknowledged for an oecumenical council , for although it was intended for such by the emperours , constans , and constantius , yet but . of the eastern bishops appeared to . of the western ; and those eastern bishops soon withdrew from the other , and decreed things directly contrary to the other . so that balsamon and zonaras , as well as the elder greeks , say , the decrees of it can at most only bind the western churches ; and the arrogating of this power of reviewing causes decided by the eastern churches by western bishops , was apparently the cause of the divisions between them : the eastern and western churches being after this divided by the alpes succiae between illyricum and thracia . and , although hilary and epiphanius expresly call this a western council , yet it was a long time , before the canons of it were received in the western church . which is supposed to be the reason , why zosimus would not mention the sardican , but called them the nicene canons ; which forgery was sufficiently detected by the african bishops . and it is the worst of all excuses , to lay the blame of it ( as you do ) on the pope's secretary ; for , do you think pope zosimus was so careless of his business , as not to look over the commonitorium , which faustinus carried with him ? do you think faustinus would not have corrected the fault when the african bishops boggled so at it ? what made him so unwilling that they should send into the east to examine the nicene canons , but intreated them to leave the business wholly with the pope , if he were not conscious of some forgery in the business ? but , you say , as a further plea in zosimus his excuse , that the council of sardica was an appendix to the nicene council rather than otherwise . an excellent appendix , made at two and twenty years distance from the other , and called by other emperours , consisting of many other persons , and assembled upon a quite different occasion . if this had been an appendix to the nicene council , how comes that to have but twenty canons ? how came atticus and cyrillus not to send these with the other ? how come all the copies of councils and canons to distinguish them ? how came they not to be contained in the code of canons , produced in the council of chalcedon , in the cause of bassianus and stephanus ? if this were the same council , because some of the same things were determined , how comes that in trullo not to be the same with the . oecumenical ? how comes the council of antioch not to be an appendix to the council of nice , if this was ; when it was celebrated before this , and the canons of it inserted in the code of canons owned by the council of chalcedon ? so that by all the shifts and arts you can use , you cannot excuse zosimus from imposture in sending these sardican under the name of the nicene canons . and , on what account the pope satisfied the canons then , is apparent enough , viz. for the advancing the interess of his see ; and this the african fathers did as easily discern afterwards , as we do now . but by this we see , what good foundations the pope's claim of supremacy had then , and what arts ( not to say frauds ) they were beholding to for setting it up , even as great as they have since made use of to maintain it . chap. vi. of the title of universal bishop . in what sense the title of vniversal bishop was taken in antiquity . a threefold acceptation of it ; as importing . a general care over the christian churches , which is attributed to other catholick bishops by antiquity , besides the bishop of rome , as is largely proved . . a peculiar dignity over the churches within the roman empire . this accounted then oecumenical , thence the bishops of the seat of the empire called oecumenical bishops : and sometimes of other patriarchal churches . . nothing vniversal jurisdiction over the whole church as head of it , so never given in antiquity to the bishop of rome . the ground of the contest about this title between the bishops of rome and constantinople . of the proceedings of the council of chalcedon , about the popes supremacy . of the grammatical and metaphorical sense of this title . many arguments to prove it impossible that s. gregory should understand it in the grammatical sense . the great absurdities consequent upon it . s. gregory's reasons proved to hold against that sense of it which is admitted in the church of rome . of irenaeus his opposition to victor's excommunicating the asian bishops , argues no authority he had over them . what the more powerful principality in irenaeus is . ruffinus his interpretation of the . nicene canon vindicated . the suburbicary churches cannot be understood of all the churches in the roman empire . the pope no infallible successor of s. peter , nor so acknowledged to be by epiphanius . s. peter had no supremacy of power over the apostles . his lordship having undertaken to give an account , how the popes rose by degrees to their greatness under the christian emperours ; in prosecution of that , necessarily falls upon the title of vniversal bishop affected by john the patriarch of constantinople , and condemned by pelagius . and gregory . this you call a trite and beaten way , because i suppose the truth is so plain and evident in it ; but withall , you tell us , this objection hath been satisfied a hundred times over ; if you had said , the same answer had been repeated so often over , you had said true ; but if you say , that it hath been satisfied once , you say more than you are able to defend , as will evidently appear by your very unsatisfactory answer , which at last you give to it . so that if none of your party have been any wiser than your self in this matter ; i am so far from being satisfied with what they say , that i can only pitty those persons , whose interest swayes their understandings so much ( or at least their expressions ) as to make them say any thing that seems to be for their purpose , though in it self never so senseless or unreasonable . and i can scarce hold my self from saying with the oratour , when a like objection to this was offered him , because multitudes had said so , quasi verò quidquam sit tam valdè , quàm nihil sapere , vulgare , that truth and reason are the greatest novelties in the world . for seriously , were it possible for men of common understanding , to rest satisfied with such pitiful shifts as you are fain to make , if they would but use any freedom in enquiring , and any liberty of judging when they had done ? but when once men have given ( not to say sold away ) the exercise of their free reason , by addicting themselves to a particular interest , there can scarce any thing be imagined so absurd , but it passeth currently from one to another , because they are bound to receive all blindfold , and in the same manner to deliver it to others . by which means it is an easie matter , for the greatest nonsense and contradictions to be said a hundred times over . and , whether it be not so in the present case , is that we are now to enquire into . and for the same ends which you propose to your self , viz. that all obscurity may be taken away , and the truth clearly appear ; i shall in the first place set down , what his lordship saith , and then distinctly examine what you reply in answer to it . thus then his lordship proceeds . about this time brake out the ambition of john patriarch of constantinople , affecting to be vniversal bishop . he was countenanced in this by mauricius the emperour , but sowrely opposed by pelagius , and s. gregory : insomuch that s. gregory plainly sayes , that this pride of his shews that the times of antichrist were near . so as yet ( and this was near upon the point of six hundred years after christ ) there was no vniversal bishop ; no one monarch over the whole militant church . but mauricius being deposed and murthered by phocas ; phocas conferred upon boniface the third , that very honour which two of his predecessors had declaimed against as monstrous and blasphemous , if not antichristian . where , by the way , either these two popes , pelagius and s. gregory erred in this weighty business , about an vniversal bishop over the whole church : or , if they did not erre , boniface and the rest , which after him took it upon them , were in their very predecessors judgement antichristian . before you come to a particular answer , you think it necessary to make a way for it , by premising two things . . that the title of vniversal bishop , was anciently attributed to the bishops of rome ; but they never made use of it . . that the ancient bishops of constantinople never intended by this usurped title , to deny the popes vniversal authority , even over themselves . these two things i shall therefore consider , because they tend much to the clearing the main controversie . i begin therefore with the title of vniversal bishop attributed to the bishop of rome ; and before i answer your particular allegations , we must more fully consider , in what sense that title of vniversal bishops was taken in antiquity , and in what manner it was attributed to him . for when titles have different senses , and those senses evidently made use of by the ancient writers , it is a most unreasonable thing meerly from the title to inferr one determinate sense , which is the most contrary to the current of antiquity . the title then of vniversal bishop , may be conceived to import one of these three things . . a general care and solicitude over all the churches of the christian world . . a peculiar dignity over the churches within the empire . . vniversal jurisdiction over all churches , so that all exercise of it in the church is derivative from him as vniversal pastor and head of the church . this last is that which you attribute to the pope ; and though you find the name of vniversal bishop a hundred times over , in the records of the church , yet if it be taken in either of the two former senses , it makes nothing at all to your purpose . our business is therefore now , to shew , that this title was used in the church in the two former senses ; and that nothing from hence can be inferred for that oecumenical pastorship , which you say , doth , of divine right , belong to the bishop of rome . i begin with the first , as this title may import a general care and solicitude over all the christian churches : and i deny not but in this sense this title might be attributed in antiquity to the bishop of rome ; but then i assert , that nothing peculiar to him can be inferred from hence , because expressions importing the same care , are attributed to other bishops , especially such who were placed in the greater sees , or were active in promoting the churches interest . for which we must consider , that power and authority in the bishops of the church , is given with an immediate respect to the good of the whole church ; so that if it were possible that every particular bishop could take care of the whole church , they have authority enough by their function to do it . but it not only being impossible that every bishop should do it , but it being inconsistent with peace and order , that all should undertake it ; therefore it was necessary that there should be some restraints and bounds set , for the more convenient management of that authority which they had . from hence came the original of particular dioceses , that within such a compass they might better exercise that power which they enjoyed . as if many lights be placed in a great room , though the intention of every one of these is to give light to the whole room ; yet that this might the better be done , these lights are conveniently placed in the several parts of it . and this is that which s. cyprian means in that famous expression of his , that there is but one bishoprick in the whole world , a part of which is held by every bishop ; for the church in common is designed as the diocese of all bishops , which is set out into several appartiments for the more advantagious governing of it . as a flock of many thousand sheep , being committed to the care of many shepherds , these all have an eye to the good of the whole flock , but do not therefore sit altogether in one place to over-see it ; but every one hath his share to look after , for the benefit of the whole : but yet so , that upon occasion , one of them may extend his care beyond his own division , and may be very useful for the whole , by counsel and direction . thus we shall find it was in the primitive church ; though every bishop had his particular charge , yet still they regarded the common good of the whole church , and upon occasion did extend their counsel and advice far beyond their particular churches ; and exercised their functions in other places besides those , which the churches convenience had allotted to them . hence it was , that , dissentions arising between the asian and roman churches , polycarp comes to rome , and there , as eusebius from irenaeus tells us , he exercised with anicetus his consent , his episcopal function . for , as valesius observes , it cannot be understood , as franciscus florens would have it , of his receiving the eucharist from anicetus , but something of honour is implied in the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whereas there was nothing but what was common in the other . hence the several epistles of ignatius , polycarp , irenaeus , and others , for the advising , confirming , and settling churches . hence irenaeus concerned himself so much in the business between victor and the asian churches , either to prevent , or repeal his sentence of excommunication against them . hence s. cyprian writes into spain about the deposing basilides and martialis , two apostatizing bishops , and checks stephen bishop of rome , for his inconsiderate restoring them . hence , faustus bishop of lyons writes to s. cyprian , in the case of martianus of arles , and he writes to stephen as being nearer , and more concerned in the business of novatianism ( for the honour of his predecessors ) in order to his deposition ; yet so , as he looks on it as a common cause belonging to them all ( cui rei nostrum est consulere & subvenire , frater charissime ) in which they were all bound to advise and help . hence s. cyprian writes to the bishop of rome , as his brother and colleague , without the least intimation of deriving any jurisdiction from him , but often expressing that charge which was committed to every bishop , which he must look to as mindful of the account he must give to god. hence nazianzen saith of s. cyprian , that he not only governed the churches of carthage and africa , but all the western parts , and even almost all the eastern , southern , and northern too , as far as his fame went. hence arsenius writes to athanasius , we embrace peace and vnity with the catholick church , over which thou , through the grace of god , dost preside . hence gregory nazianzen saith of athanasius , that he made laws for the whole earth . hence s. basil writes to him , that he had care of all the churches , as of his own ; and in the same epistle calls him , the head and chief over all . hence s. chrysostome in the praise of eustathius the patriarch of antioch , saith , that he was instructed by the divine spirit , that he was not only to have care of that church over which he was set , but of the whole church throughout the world . hence came the great endeavours of theophilus and cyril , patriarchs of alexandria , of eusebius vercellensis , hilarius pictaviensis , and several others , for rooting out of heresies ; not confining themselves to those provinces allotted to them , but extending their care over other churches . hence came frequent ordinations of persons out of their own dioceses , as of paulinus at antioch by lucifer caralitanus , of many bishops in syria and mesopotamia by eusebius samosatenus ; and of a presbyter at bethleem by epiphanius ; who when he was quarrel'd at by john of hierusalem for it , he defends his action by this saying , that , in sacerdotio dei nulla est diversitas , i. e. where-ever a bishop was , he might exercise his power as such , although the churches prudence had set limits to their ordinary jurisdiction . from these things then we see , that a general care and solicitude of the vniversal church , doth belong to every bishop , and that some of them have been expresly said to have had the care of the whole church , which in other terms is to say , they were vniversal bishops . so that from this sense of the title , you gain nothing to your purpose , though the care of the vniversal church be attributed to the bishop of rome , though he acts and calls councils , and orders other things out of his own province , yet all this proves not the supremacy you intend ; for this is no more than other bishops did , whom you will not acknowledge to be heads of the church , or vniversal bishops in that sense . . an vniversal bishop denotes a peculiar dignity over the churches within the roman empire : for which , two things will be sufficient to manifest it . . that the roman empire was then accounted vniversal . . that some bishops in the great churches , were on that account called oecumenical or vniversal bishops . . that the roman empire was then accounted vniversal ; for which multitudes of testimonies might be cited , in which orbis romanus , and orbis humanus were looked on as synonymous ; thence trebellius pollio in macrianus , qui ex diversis partibus orbis romani restituant : and as salmasius witnesseth in those writers of the imperial history ; most of the ancient m s s. for orbis romanus have orbis humanus ; for , as he saith , eâ gloriâ fuerunt romani , ut totum orbem suum vocarent ; hinc orbis romanus passim apud auctores reperitur pro universo orbe ; thence they called the roman people , omnium gentium victorem ; and from hence ammianus marcellinus calls rome , caput mundi ( the head of the world ) and the roman senate , asylum mundi totius ( the sanctuary for the whole world ; ) thence spartianus saith of severus , orbem terrarum romamque despexit , when , as casaubon observes , he speaks only of the roman provinces . and from hence , whatever was out of the roman empire , was called barbaria , thence the rura vicina barbariae in lampridius , for the marches which lay next to the enemies country ; thence marcellinus , visus est in barbarico miles , and in the imperial constitutions , as justellus observes , barbari vocantur ; quicunque imperio romano non parebant ( all were called barbarous out of the roman empire ) and in the same sense barbaricum is used in the . canon of the african code , and in the . canon of the code of the vniversal church , that the bishops 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. out of the roman empire , should be ordained by the patriarch of constantinople . now , since the roman empire was called orbis romanus , and in greek , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( as appears , in that augusius , luk. . . is said to tax 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the whole world , which could be only the roman empire ; and the famine in the same , is said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , act. . . ) it is no wonder if these bishops who enjoyed the greatest dignity in the roman empire were called oecumenical ; and those councils so too , which consisted of the bishops within those bounds . i come therefore to the second thing , that some bishops in the great churches in the roman empire , were called oecumenical , as that relates to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , viz. the roman empire . for which we may consider , the primary ground of the advancement of the patriarch of constantinople , was the greatness of the city , as is undeniably manifest by the proceedings of the councils of constantinople , and chalcedon about him ; wherein it was decreed , since that was new-rome , that it should enjoy equal priviledges with the old . and in all probability the ground of the patriarch of constantinople's usurping the title of oecumenical patriarch was but to correspond with the greatness of his city , which at the time of the contest between pope gregory , and him , was in a better condition than rome it self ; being the seat of the empire , and therefore he thought it suitable thereto , to be called oecumenical patriarch . but besides this peculiarity of constantinople , it was no unusual thing for the bishop of the patriarchal churches , to have expressions given them , tantamount to the title of vniversal bishop in any sense but that of the vniversal jurisdiction ; which i shall prove as to the three patriarchs of alexandria , antioch , and constantinople . first , of alexandria : so greg. nazianzen saith of athanasius , being made bishop there , he had the government of that people committed to him , which is as much as to say , of the whole world ; and john of hierusalem , writing to theophilus patriarch of alexandria , saith , that he had the care of all the churches . and st. basil writes to athanasius about the establishing of meletius as patriarch of antioch , that so he might govern as it were the whole body of the church . but most clear and full to that purpose is the testimony of theodoret concerning nestorius being made patriarch of constantinople . he was intrusted with the government of the catholick church of the orthodox at constantinople , and thereby of the whole world . what work would you make with so illustrious a testimony in antiquity for the bishop of rome as this is for the patriarch of constantinople ? use therefore and interpret but these testimonies as kindly as you do any for the roman see , and will you not find as large a power over the church attributed to the other patriarchs as you do to the bishop of rome ? what is it then you would infer from the title of vniversal bishop being attributed to him ? will the very title do more then what is signified by it ? or must it of necessity import something more when given to the bishop of rome then it doth when given to other bishops ? if it doth , you must prove it from some other arguments , and not barely from the title being attributed to them . thus you see , though the title were granted to be attributed to him , there is nothing new , nothing peculiar in it . but we must further examine , who they are that attribute this title to him , and what the account is of their doing it . for this , you cite the council of chalcedon in a letter inserted in the acts of it , the council of constantinople sub mena , john bishop of nicopolis , constantinus pogonatus the emperour , basil the yonger , and balsamon himself . to the first i answer . . that this title was not given by the council of chalcedon . . if it had , no more was given to the bishop of rome , then to the bishops of other patriarchal churches . . that this title was not given by the general council of chalcedon ; this i know gregory . in his epistles about this subject repeats usque ad nauseam , that the title of vniversal bishop was offered to the bishop of rome by the council of chalcedon and that he refused it ; but there is as little evidence for the one as the other . that the title of oecumenical patriarch was attributed to the bishop of rome by some papers read and received in that council i deny not , but we must consider the persons who did it , and the occasion of it . the persons were such who came to inform the council against dioscorus the patriarch of alexandria , and they were no other then athanasius a presbyter , theodorus and ischyrion two deacons , and sophronius a laick of alexandria : now these persons not in a letter ( as you relate it ) but in their bills exhibited to the council against dioscorus give that title of oecumenical patriarch or archbishop to leo the bishop of rome . and is this now the offer made of the title of vniversal bishop by the council of chalcedon ? but you say , this was inserted into the acts of the council ? i grant it was , but on what account ? not with any respect to the title , but as containing the accusations against dioscorus . but where do any of the bishops of that council attribute that title to leo ? which of them mentions it in their subscriptions to the deposition of dioscorus , though many of them speak expresly of leo and anatolius together with the same titles of honour to them both . why did not the council superscribe their synodical epistle to pope leo with that title ? so indeed binius rather supposes they should have done , then proves they ever did it : and that only from gregories epistle ( not leo's as he mistakes it ) to eulogius where he mentions this offer , but upon what grounds we have seen already . but suppose , . we should grant , that the council of chalcedon should have offered the title of oecumenical patriarch or bishop , to the bishop of rome ; there are none who understand any thing of the nature of that title , or the proceedings of that council , who can imagine they should intend any acknowledgement of the popes supremacy by it . for the title it self as to the importance of it was common to other bishops , especially of the patriarchal sees , as i have proved by some instances already , and might do yet by more ; but i shall content my self with the ingenuous confession of sim. vigorius ; that when the western fathers , call the roman bishops , bishops of the vniversal church , they do it from the custome of their churches , not that they look on them as vniversal bishops of the whole church , but in the same sense that the patriarchs of constantinople , antioch , alexandria , jerusalem , are call'd so ; or as they are vniversal over the churches under their patriarchate ; or that in oecumenical councils they preside over the whole church . and after acknowledgeth , that the title of vniversal or oecumenical bishop makes nothing for the popes monarchy in the church . and if it doth not so when given by the western fathers , much less certainly when given by the eastern , especially those who met in the council of chalcedon ; for it is evident by their session , the canon , and their synodical epistle to pope leo , they designed the advancement of the see of constantinople to equal priviledges with that of rome . and therefore if they gave the pope the title of oecumenical patriarch , or bishop , it was that he might be willing that the patriarch of constantinople might be call'd so too . and if , as gregory saith , the bishops of rome would not accept the title of vniversal bishop , the truest account i know of it , is , lest the patriarch of constantinople should share with him in it ; but we see when the great benefactor to your church the benigne phocas , as gregory himself styles him , gave it to the bishop of rome alone , then hands and heart and all were ready to receive it . and i much fear leo . and st. gregory himself would have been shrewdly tempted to receive it , if it had been offered them upon those terms , that no one else should have it besides them ; but they scorned it till they could have it alone . and for all their declamations against the pride of anatolius and john , patriarchs of constantinople , they must look very favourably on the actions of those two popes , that discern not their own pride in condemning of them for it . for usually men shew it as much in suspecting or condemning others for it , as in any other way whatsoever . thus it was in these persons ; they thought the patriarchs of constantinople proud and arrogant , because they sought to be equal with them . but , was it not their own greater pride , that they were able to bear no equals ? and it is to be feared , it was their desire to advance their own supremacy which made them quarrel so much with anatolius , and john , and cyriacus . for would they but have been contented to truckle under the roman bishops they had been accounted very meek and humble men . and st. gregory himself , would not sure have thought much to have call'd them so , who most abominably flatters that monster phocas , after the murder of mauricius and his children : for he begins his epistle to him with , gloria in excelsis deo : glory to god on high , who , according to what is written , changes times and transfers kingdomes : and after , in such notorious flattering expressions congratulates his coming to the throne , that any one who reads them would think phocas the greater saint ; he rejoyces , that the benignity of his piety was advanced to the imperial throne , nay ( laetentur coeli & exultet terra ) let the heavens rejoyce and the earth be glad , and all the people which hath been hitherto in much affliction , revive at the benignity of your actions . o rare phocas ! could he do any less then pronounce the bishop of rome vniversal bishop after this , when poor cyriacus at constantinople suffered for his opposing him for the execrable murder of his master ? therefore these proceedings of leo and gregory yield shrewd matter of suspicion , what the main ground of their quarrel against the patriarchs of constantinople was . for before , the emperours stood up for the honour of constantinople as being the seat of their empire , and rome began to sink , the empire decaying there ; but now , there was a fit time to do something for the honour of the roman see ; cyriacus was in disgrace with the tyrant phocas ; and no such time as now to fall in with him and caresse him : and we see gregory did it prety well for a saint , but he lived not to enjoy the benefit of it ; but boniface did however . after the patriarchate of constantinople was erected , the popes had a double game to play , to advance themselves , and depress that , which it was very hard for them to do , because all the eastern bishops , as well as the emperour favoured it . but after equal priviledges were decreed to the patriarch of constantinople with the bishop of rome , by the council of constantinople , they could no longer dissemble their choler ; but had no such occasion ministred to them to express it as after the canon of the council of chalcedon , ( wherein were present bishops ) which confirmed the former . for then leo fumes and frets and writes to martianus , and pulcheria , to anatolius and the bishops of the east ; but still pretends that he stood up for the priviledges of the other patriarchs and the nicene canons , and what not ? but one might easily discern what it was that pinched him , viz. the equalling the patriarch of constantinople with himself . which it is apparent he suspected before , by the instructions he gave his legats paschasinus and lucentius , to be sure to oppose whatever was proposed in the council concerning the primacy of that see. and accordingly they did ; and complained that the canon was surreptitiously made . which they were hugely overseen in doing while the council sat , for upon this the whole matter is reviewed , the judges scan the business , the bishops protest there were no practises used ; that they all voluntarily consented to it ; and all this in the presence of the roman legats ? how comes it then to pass that this should not be a regular and conciliar action ? were not the bishops at age to understand their own priviledges ? did not the bishop of antioch know his own interest as well as pope leo ? must he be supposed more able to understand the nicene canons then these bishops ? why then was not this canon as regular as any other . why forsooth , the pope did not consent to it . so true is that sharp censure of ludovicus vives , that , those are accounted lawful canons and councils which make for their interest , but others are no more esteemed then a company of tattling gossips . but what made the pope so angry at this canon of the council of chalcedon ? he pretends the honour of the nicene canons , the preserving the priviledges of other patriarchs ; but binius hath told us the true reason of it ; because , they say , that the primacy of rome came , by its being the seat of the empire ; and therefore not by divine right : and since constantinople was become the seat of the empire too , therefore the patriarch there should enjoy equal priviledges with the bishop of rome . if rome had continued still the sole seat of the empire , this reason would not have been quarrelled at ; but now rome sinking and constantinople rising , this must not be endured , but all the arts and devices possible must be used to keep it under . and this is the true account of the pique which the bishops of rome had to the patriarchs of constantinople : from whence we may easily , guess how probable it is that this council of chalcedon did acknowledge the pope oecumenical bishop in any other sense then they contended the patriarch of constantinople was so too . and the same answer will serve for all your following instances . for , as you pretend that the council of constantinople sub menna did call pope agapetus oecumenical patriarch , so it is most certain that it call'd mennas the patriarch of constantinople so too . and which is more , adrian . in his epistle to tharasius of constantinople in the second nicene council calls him vniversal bishop . if therefore the greek emperours and balsamon call the pope so , they import nothing peculiar to him in it , because it is most evident they call'd their own patriarch so likewise . so that you find little advantage to your cause from this first thing which you premise , viz. that the pope was anciently call'd vniversal bishop . but you say further , . that the bishops of constantinople never intended to deny by this usurped title , the popes vniversal authority even over themselves . this is ambiguous , unless it be further explained what you mean by vniversal authority ; for , it may either note some kind of prae-eminence and dignity which the bishop of rome had as the chief patriarch , and who on that account had great authority in the church , and this your instances prove that the patriarchs of constantinople did acknowledge to belong to the pope : but if by vniversal authority be meant vniversal jurisdiction over the church as appointed the head of it by christ , then not one of your instances comes near the shadow of a proof for it . thus having considered what you premise , we come to your answer it self . for which you tell us , we are to take notice , that the term [ vniversal bishop ] is capable of two senses ; the one grammatical , the other metaphorical . in the grammatical sense it signifies bishop of the vniversal church , and of all churches in particular , even to the exclusion of all others from being properly bishops ; and consequently displaceable at his pleasure ; as being only his , not christs officers ; and receiving authority from him , and not from christ. in the metaphorical sense , it signifies only so high and eminent a dignity above all other bishops throughout the whole church , that though he , who is stiled vniversal bishop , hath a true and real superintendency , jurisdiction , and authority over all other bishops , yet that they be as truly and properly bishops in their respective provinces and dioceses as he himself . this being clear'd ( say you ) 't is evident that st. gregory when he inveighs against the title of vniversal bishop , takes it in the literal and grammatical sense ; which you very faintly endeavour to prove out of him , as i shall make it presently appear . this being then the substance of that answer which you say hath been given a hundred times over , must now once for all pass a strict and severe examination . which it shall receive in these two enquiries , . whether it be possible to conceive that st. gregory should take vniversal bishop in the literal and grammatical sense ? . whether all the arguments which he useth against that title , do not hold against that vniversal jurisdiction which you attribute to the pope as head of the church ? . whether it be possible to conceive that st. gregory should take vniversal bishop in the literal and grammatical sense which you give of it ? and he which can think so , must have some other way of understanding his meaning then by his words and arguments , which i confess i do not pretend to . but if we examine them , we shall find how impossible it is that st. gregory should ever think that john pretended to be the sole bishop of this world . . because gregory saith , that same title which john had usurped was offered to the roman bishops by the council of chalcedon , but none of them would ever use it , because it seemed to diminish the honour of other bishops . now i pray think with your self , whether ever bishops would consent together to give away all their power and authority in the church ? for you say , the literal sense of vniversal bishop doth suppose him to be bishop of all particular churches , to the exclusion of all others from being properly bishops , and are displaceable at his pleasure . can it now enter into your mind that gregory should ever think that these bishops should all make themselves the popes vassals of their own free choice ? we see even under the great vsurpations of the bishop of rome since , though they pretend ( for all that i can see ) to be oecumenical bishops in a higher sense then ever john pretended to , that yet the bishops of the roman communion are not willing to submit their office wholly to the papal jurisdiction ; witness the stout and eager contests of the spanish bishops in the council of trent about the divine institution of the episcopal office , against the pretences of the italian party . and shall we then think when the pope was far from that power which he hath since usurped , that such multitude of grave and resolute bishops should throw their miters down at the popes feet and offer him in your literal sense , to be sole bishop of the world. that they would relinquish their power , which they made no question they had from christ , and take it up again at the popes hands ? but whether you can imagine this of so many bishops or no , can you conceive that gregory should think so of them ? and he must do it , if he took the title of vniversal bishop in your literal sense ; and yet this gregory saith , hoc vniversitatis nomen oblatum est , that very name of vniversal bishop was offered to the pope by the council of chalcedon ; sed nullus unquam decessorum meorum hoc tam prophano vocabulo uti consensit . nothing then can be more plain , then that john took that which the pope refused . and he that can believe that this title should ever be offered in this literal sense , i despair without the help of physick to make him believe any thing . . this very title was not usurped wholly by john himself , but was given him in a council at constantinople . this gregory confesseth in his epistle to eulogius and anastasius , the patriarchs of antioch and alexandria , that about eight years before , in the time of pelagius his predecessor , john called a council at constantinople in which he endeavours to be called vniversal bishop ; so gregory : but he confesseth elsewhere that he effected it . and it appears by the epistle of pelagius himself writ on that occasion , that it was more then a meer endeavour , and that they did consent to it ; else , why doth pelagius say , quicquid in vestro conventiculo statuistis , whatever they had determin'd in their conventicle ( as on this account pelagius calls it , because it wanted his approbation ) ? and it is evident from gregories zealous writing to the other patriarchs about it , that they did not ●ook on themselves as so much concerned about it . now in this council which met at constantinople , which was called together in the case of gregory the patriarch of antioch , all the patriarchs either by themselves or substitutes were present , as evagrius tells us , and not only they but several metropolitans too ; now if they had taken this in the literal sense , can you think they would have yielded to it ? were not they much more concerned about it then either pelagius or gregory were ? for they were near him , and were sure to live under this usurped power of his , and to smart by it , if it were so great as you suppose it to be . but it is apparent by their yielding to it , they looked on it , to be sure , not in the literal sense , and it may be as no more than the honorary title of oecumenical patriarch . . how comes it to pass , that none of the successors of john and cyriacus did ever challenge this title in the literal sense of it ? for we do not see that they quitted it , for all phocas gave it to pope boniface , since by your own confession , in the greek canon-law , sisinnius , german , constantine , alexius , and others are called oecumenical patriarchs : and it appears by the epistles of pelagius and gregory , that was the title which john had then given him . si summus patriarcha vniversalis dicitur , patriarcharum nomen caeteris denegatur , saith pelagius . si enim hoc dici licentèr permittitur , honor patriarcharum omnium negatur , saith gregory . from which words i think it most probable , that the main ambition of the patriarchs of constantinople , was not meerly that they would be called oecumenical patriarchs , but that title should properly belong to them as excluding others from it , which was it that touched the bishops of rome to the quick ; because then constantinople flourished , as much as rome decayed by the oppressions of the lombards ; and gregory complained of this to constantia the empress , that for seven and twenty years together they had lived in rome , inter longobardorum gladios ( among the swords of the lombards ) and this made them so jealous , that the honour of the roman see was then sinking , and therefore they stickle so much against this title , and draw all the invididious consequences from it possible , the better to set the other patriarchs against it ; and because that would not extend far beyond the patriarchs themselves , they pretend likewise , that this was to make himself vniversal bishop . but not certainly in your literal sense ; for then gregory would have objected some actions consequent upon this title ; in depriving bishops of their jurisdiction , and displacing some , and putting in others at his pleasure ; which you say , is the natural effect of this literal sense of vniversal bishop . but we read of nothing of this nature done either by john or cyriacus ; they acted no more than they did , only enjoyed a higher title . and this is proved further , . by the carriage of the emperour mauricius in this business . gregory writes a pitiful moaning letter to him about it , and uses all the rhetorick he had to perswade the emperour , that he would either flectere , or coercere , incline , or force him to lay aside that arrogant title : but for all this it appears by gregory's letter to the empress , that the emperour had checked him for medling in it , and was so far from opposing the patriarchs title , that in effect he bid him trouble himself no more about it : which poor s. gregory took very ill . and afterwards , when cyriacus succeeded john in constantinople , the emperour being somewhat fearful , lest gregory at the coming in of a new patriarch , might , on the account of this new title , deny his communicatory letters , he dispatches a letter to him to quicken him about it . and he takes it very unkindly that the emperour should suspect his indiscretion so much , that for the sake of this title , which he saith , had sorely wounded him , he should deny communion in the faith with him ; and yet in the same epistle saith , that whosoever took the title of vniversal bishop upon him , was a forerunner of antichrist . but if this name had been apprehended in that which you call , the literal and grammatical sense , would not the emperour ( being commended by gregory too for his piety ) have rather encouraged him in it ? where as he plainly tells him , it was a contest about a frivolous name , and nothing else ; and that there ought to be no scandal among them about it . upon which gregory is put to his distinctions of two sorts of frivolous things , some that are very harmless , and some that are very hurtful , i. e. frivolous things are either such as are frivolous , , or such as are not ; for , who ever imagined , that such things as are very hurtful , are frivolous ? but however , s. gregory speaks excellent sense ; for his meaning is , that the title it self may be frivolous , but the consequences of it may be dreadful , and so we have found it since his time . so that this appears to be the true state of the business between them ; the patriarch of constantinople , he challengeth the title of oecumenical patritriarch or bishop , as belonging of right to him , being patriarch of the chief seat of the empire , but in the mean time challengeth no vniversal jurisdiction by virtue of this title : on which account the emperour and eastern bishops admit of it : on the other side , the bishops of rome , partly looking at their own interest in it ( for so it appears by one of gregory's epistles to the emperour , that he suspected it to be his own interest which he stood so much up for ) and partly foreseeing the dangerous consequences of this , if vniversal jurisdiction were challenged with it , they resolutely oppose it , not meerly for the title sake , but for that which might follow upon that title , taking it not in your literal , but in your metaphorical sense , as i shall shew presently . but neither party was so weak and silly , as to apprehend it in your literal sense ; for then neither would the emperour have sleighted it , nor the popes opposed it on those terms which they do , and on such grounds which reach your metaphorical sense . . the same title in the same sense which gregory opposed it , did boniface accept of , from the emperour phocas . this you confess your self , when you say , that all that phocas did , was but to declare that the title in contest did of right belong to the bishop of rome only ; therefore the same title which the patriarch of constantinople took to himself before , was both given by phocas , and taken by pope boniface . this then being confessed by you , let me now seriously ask you , whether the title of vniversal bishop , which pope gregory opposed , was to be taken in the grammatical or metaphorical sense ? take now , whether of them you please ; if in the metaphorical , all his arguments hold against the popes present vniversal jurisdiction , by your own confession ; if in the literal and grammatical , then pope boniface had all those things belonging to him , which gregory condemns that title for . then by your own confession pope boniface must be the forerunner of antichrist , he must equal himself to lucifer in pride , he must have that name of blasphemy upon him , and all those dreadful consequences must attend him and all his followers , who own that title of vniversal bishop , in that which you call the literal or grammatical sense of it . . lastly , it appears from s. gregory himself , that the reasons which he urgeth against the title of vniversal bishop , are such as hold against that which you call the metaphorical sense of it ; which in short is , an vniversal pastor exercising authority and jurisdiction over the whole church . and it is scarce possible to imagine , that he should speak more clearly against such an vniversal headship than he doth ; and urges such arguments against it , which properly belong to that metaphorical sense of it . as when he saith to john the patriarch , what wilt thou answer to christ the head of the vniversal church in the day of judgement , who dost endeavour to subject all his members to thee , under the name of vniversal bishop ? what is there in these words which doth not fully belong to your metaphorical sense of head of the church ? doth he not subject all christs members to him ? doth he not challenge to himself proper jurisdiction over them ? what then will he be able to answer to christ the head of the vniversal church , as st. gregory understands it exclusivè of any other ? doth not he arise to that height of singularity , that he is subject to none , but rules over all ? yet these are the very words he uses ; and , can any more expresly describe your head of the church than these do ? yet herein he saith , he imitates the pride of lucifer , who , according to st. gregory , endeavoured to be the head of the church triumphant , as the pope of the church militant . and follows that parallel close , that an vniversal bishop imitates lucifer in exalting his throne above the starrs of god : for ( saith he ) what are all the brethren the bishops of the vniversal church , but the starrs of heaven ? and after parallels them with the clouds , and so this terrestrial lucifer ascends above the heights of the clouds . and again , saith he , surely the apostle peter , was the first member ( not the head ) of the holy and vniversal church . paul , andrew , and john , what are they else but the heads of particular churches ? and yet they are all members of the church under one head. can any thing be more clear against any head of the vniversal church , but christ himself ? when st. peter is acknowledged to be only a prime member of the church ? how then come his successors to be the heads of it ? and , as he goes on , the saints before the law , and under the law , and under grace , who all make up the body of our lord , they were all but members of the church , and none of them would be called vniversal . and , i pray , let his holiness consider his following words , let your holiness acknowledge what pride it is to be called by that name , which none that was truly holy was ever call'd by . and , do you think now that these expressions do not as properly reach your head of the church , as if they had been spoken by a protestant against that doctrine which you all own ? what is there in all this , that implies that others should be no bishops , but only titular ? yes , they may be as much bishops as you acknowledge them to be , i. e. as to their power of order , but not as to their jurisdiction . for this , you say and defend , comes from the head of the church ; or else your monarchical government in the church signifies nothing . do not you make the pope vniversal pastor of the church , in as high a sense as any of these expressions carry it ? and when st. gregory urges so often , that if there be such an vniversal bishop , if he fails , the church would fail too ; do you deny the consequence as to the pope ? doth not bellarmine tell us , when he writes of the pope , he writes de summâ rei christianae , of the main of all christianity , and surely then the church must fail if the popes supremacy doth ? and i pray now consider with your self , whether this answer which you say hath been given a hundred times over , can satisfie any reasonable man ? nay , doth it not appear to be so absurd and incongruous , that it is matter of just admiration , that ever it should have been given once ; and yet you are wonderfully displeased that his lordship should bring this objection upon the stage again . but , do you think your answers , like your prayers , will do you good by being said so often over ? indeed therein they are alike , that they are both in an unknown tongue . your literal sense of vniversal bishop being in this case no more intelligible than your latin-prayers to a country congregation . these things being thus clear , i have prevented my self in the second enquiry , in that i have proved already , that the reasons which st. gregory produceth hold against that sense of vniversal bishop , which you own and contend for , as of right belonging to the bishop of rome . although it were no difficult matter to prove , that , according to the most received opinion in your church , viz. that all jurisdiction in bishops is derived from the pope ( which opinion you cannot but know is most acceptable at rome , and was so at the council of trent ) that that which you call the literal sense , doth follow your metaphorical , i. e. if the pope hath vniversal jurisdiction as head of the church , then other bishops are not properly bishops , nor christ's officers , but his . for what doth their power of order signifie as to the church without the power of jurisdiction ? and therefore , if they be taken only in partem solicitudinis , and not in plenitudinem potestatis , according to the known distinction of the court of rome , it necessarily follows , that they are but the pope's officers , and are taken just into so much authority as he commits to them , and no more . and this bellarmine proves from the very form of the pope's consecration of bishops , whereby he commits the power of governing the church to him , and the administration of it in spirituals and temporals . and you may see by the speech of father laynez , in the council of trent , how stoutly he proves that the power of jurisdiction was given wholly to the bishop of rome , and that none in the church besides hath any spark of it but from him ; that the bishop of rome is true and absolute monarch , with full and total power and jurisdiction , and the church is subject unto him , as it was to christ. and , as when his divine majesty did govern it , it could not be said that any of the faithful had any the least power or jurisdiction , but meer , pure , and total subjection ; so it must be said in all perpetuity of time , and so understood , that the church is a sheepfold and a kingdom . and , that he is the only pastor , is plainly proved by the words of christ , when he said , he hath other sheep which he will gather together , and so one sheepfold should be made , and one shepherd . what think you now of the literal sense of vniversal bishop , for the only bishop ? are not the only bishop , and the only pastor all one ? will not all those words of st. gregory reach this , which any of you make use of to prove , that he takes it in the worst and literal sense ; nay , it goes higher . for gregory only argues , that from the title of vniversal bishop he must be sole bishop , and others could not be any true bishops ; but here it is asserted in plain terms , that the bishop of rome is the only pastor , and that as much as if christ himself were here upon earth ; and therefore if your literal sense hath any sense at all in it , it is much more true of the bishop of rome , than ever it could be of the patriarch of constantinople . and therefore i pray think more seriously of what he saith , that to agree in that prophane word , is to lose the faith ; that such a blasphemous name should be far from the hearts of christians , in which , by the arrogance of one bishop , the honour of all is taken away . neither will it serve your turn to say ( which is all that you have to say ) that this is not the definitive sentence of your church , but that many in your church hold otherwise , that there is power of jurisdiction properly in bishops . for , although these latter are not near the number of the other , nor so much in favour with your church , but are looked on as a discontented party , as appears by the proceedings in the council of trent ; yet that is not it , we are to look after , what all in your church are agreed on , but what the pope challengeth as belonging to himself . was not father laynez his doctrine highly approved at rome , as well as by the cardinal legats at trent , and all the italian party ? were not the other party discountenanced and disgraced as much as might be ? doth not the pope arrogate this to himself , to be oecumenical pastor , and the sole fountain of all jurisdiction in the church ? if so , all that ever st. gregory said against that title , falls most heavily upon the pope . for , st. gregory doth not stand upon what others attributed to him , but what he arrogated to himself , that therein , he was the prince of pride , the forerunner of antichrist , using a vain , new , rash , foolish , proud , prophane , erroneous , wicked , hypocritical , singular , presumptuous , blaspemous name . for all these goodly epithets doth s. gregory bestow upon it ; and , i believe , if he could have thought of more , and worse , he would as freely have bestowed them . if therefore john the patriarch was said by him to transgress god's laws , violate the canons , dishonour the church , despise his brethren , imitate lucifer , how much more doth this belong to him , that not only challengeth to be oecumenical patriarch , but the sole pastor of the church , and that all jurisdiction is derived from him ? and by this time i hope you see , that the answer you say hath been given a hundred times over , is so pitifully weak , absurd and ridiculous , that you might have been ashamed to have produced it once , and much more to repeat it without saying any more for it than you do . for , your other discourse depends wholly upon it , and all that being taken away , the rest doth fall to the ground with it . we must now therefore return to his lordships discourse , in which he goes on to give an account of the rise of the pope's greatness . as yet , saith he , the right of election , or ratification of the pope , continued in the emperour : but then the lombards grew so great in italy , and the empire was so infested with saracens , and such changes happened in all parts of the world , as that neither for the present , the homage of the pope was useful for the emperour ; nor the protection of the emperour available for the pope . by this means the bishop of rome was left to play his own game by himself . a thing which as it pleased him well enough , so both he and his successors made great advantage by it . for , being grown to that eminence by the emperour , and the greatness of that city and place of his aboad ; he found himself the more free , the greater the tempest was , that beat upon the other . and then first he set himself to alienate the hearts of the italians from the emperour . next he opposed himself against him . and about a. d. . pope constantine . did also first of all openly confront philippicus the emperour , in defence of images ; as onuphrius tells us . after him gregory . and the . did the same by leo isaurus . by this time the lombards began to pinch very close , and to vex on all sides , not italy only , but rome also . this drives the pope to seek a new patron . and very fitly he meets with charls martell in france , that famous warrior against the sarazens . him he implores in defence of the church against the lombards . this address seems very advisedly taken , at least it proves very fortunate to them both . for in short time it dissolved the kingdom of the lombards in italy , which had then stood two hundred and four years , which was the popes security . and it brought the crown of france into the house of charls , and shortly after the western empire : and now began the pope to be great indeed . for by the bounty of pepin son of charls , that which was taken from the lombards , was given to the pope . so that now of a bishop , he became a temporal prince . but when charls the great had set up the western empire , then he resumed the ancient and original power of the emperour , to govern the church , to call councils , to order papal elections . and this power continued in his posterity . for this right of the emperour was in force and use in gregory the seventh's time . who was confirmed in the popedom by henry the fourth , whom he afterward deposed . and it might have continued longer , if the succeeding emperours had had abilities enough to secure , or vindicate their own right . but the pope keeping a strong council about him , and meeting with some weak princes , and they oft-times distracted with great and dangerous warrs , grew stronger till he got the better . so this is enough to shew , how the popes climed up by the emperours , till they over-topt them , which is all i said before , and have now proved . and this was about the year . yet was it carried in succeeding times with great changes of fortune and different success . the emperour sometimes plucking from the pope , and the pope from the emperour , winning and losing ground , as their spirits , abilities , aids , and opportunities were , till at the last the pope settled himself upon the grounds laid by gregory . in the great power which he now uses in and over these parts of the christian world . to all this you return a short answer , in these words ; we deny not but that in temporal power and authority the popes grew great by the patronage of christian emperours . but what is this to the purpose ? if he would have said any thing material , he should have proved that the popes rose by the emperours means to their spiritual authority and jurisdiction over all other bishops throughout the whole catholick church ; which is the only thing they claim jure divino , and which is so annexed to the dignity of their office by christ's institution , that , were the pope deprived of all his temporalties , yet could not his spiritual authority suffer the least diminution by it . but . doth his lordships discourse only contain an account of the popes temporal greatness by the patronage of christian emperours ? doth he not plainly shew , how the popes got their power by rebelling , and contesting with the emperours themselves , how they assumed to themselves a power to depose emperours : and , do they claim these things jure divino too ? . what you say of the popes spiritual authority , will then hold good when it is well proved ; but bare asserting it , will never do it . we must therefore have patience till you have leisure to attempt it . but in the mean time we must consider , how you vindicate the famous place of irenaeus concerning , as you say , the pope's supreme pastoral authority , from his lordships interpretation . yet , before we come to the authority , it self , there are some light skirmishes ( as you call them ) to be passed through ; and those are , concerning irenaeus himself . for his lordship saith , that his adversarie is much scanted of ancient proof , if irenaeus stand alone ; besides , irenaeus was a bishop of the gallican church , and a very unlikely man to captivate the liberty of that church under the more powerful principality of rome . and how can we have better evidence of his judgement , touching that principality , then the actions of his life ? when pope victor excommunicated the asian churches , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , all at a blow , was not irenaeus the chief man that reprehended him for it ? a very unmeet and undutiful thing sure it had been in irenaeus , in deeds to tax him of rashness and inconsiderateness , whom in words a. c. would have to be acknowledged by him , the supreme and infallible pastour of the vniversal church . to which you answer , . to the liberty of the gallican church ; as if ( forsooth ) the so much talked of liberties of the gallican church , had been things known or heard of in st. irenaeus his time ; as though there were no difference between not captivating the liberty of that church to rome , and asserting the liberties of the gallican church in her obedience to rome , yet these two must be confounded by you to render his lordships answer ridiculous ; which yet is as sound and rational as your cavil is vain and impertinent but this you pass over and fix , . vpon his reprehending pope victor , where ( you say ) that eusebius hath not a word importing reprehension , but rather a friendly and seasonable perswasion : his words are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. he exhorts him after a handsome manner , as reflecting on the popes dignity , and clearly shews that the pope had of right some authority over the asian bishops , and by consequence over the whole church . for otherwise it had been very absurd in st. irenaeus to perswade pope victor , not to cut off from the church so many christian provinces had he believed ( as protestant , contends he did ) that the pope had no power at all to cut them off . just as if a man should entreat the bishop of rochester , not to excommunicate the archbishop of york and all the bishops of his province ; over whom he hath not any the least pretence of jurisdiction . i answer , that if you say , that eusebius hath not a word importing reprehension , it is a sign you have not read what eusebius saith . for , doth not he expresly say , that the epistle of some of the bishops are yet remaining , in which they do severely rebuke him ? among whom ( saith he ) irenaeus was one , &c. it seems , irenaeus was one of those bishops who did so sharply reprehend him ; but it may be , you would render 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 kissing his holiness feet , or , exhorting him after a handsome manner ; and indeed , if they did it sharply , they did it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 suitably enough to what victor deserved for his rash and inconsiderate proceedings in this business . but withall to let you see how well these proceedings of his were resented in the christian world , eusebius tells us before , that victor by his letters did declare those of the eastern churches to be excommunicate : and he presently adds , but this did no wayes please all the bishops ; wherefore ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) they countermanded him , that he might mind the things of peace and unity and brotherly love . and will you still render that word too , by exhorting him after a handsome manner , when even christopherson renders it by magnoperè adhortabantur , valesius by ex adverso hortati sunt : and although these seem not to come up to the full emphasis of the word , yet surely they imply somewhat of vehemency and earnestness in their perswading him as well as their being hugely dissatisfied with what victor did . i grant that these persons did reflect ( as you say ) on the pope , but not as you would have it on his dignity , but on his rashness and indiscretion , that should go about to cast the asian churches out of communion , for such a trifle as that was in controversie between them . but you are the happiest man at making inferences that i have met with : for , because irenaeus in the name of the gallican bishops , writes to victor , not to proceed so rashly in this action thence you infer , that the pope had of right some authority over the asian bishops , and by consequence over the whole church . might you not every jot as well inferr , that when a man in passion is ready : to kill those that stand about him ; whoever perswades him not to do it , doth suppose he might lawfully have done it , if he would . but if those bishops had so venerable an esteem ( as you would perswade us they had ) then of the bishop of rome , how come they to dispute his actions in so high a manner as they did ? if they had looked on him as vniversal pastor of the church , it had more become them to sit still and be quiet , then severely to reprehend him who was alone able to judge what was fit to be done and what not in those cases . if the pope had call'd them to council to have known their advise , it might have been their duty to have given it him in the most humble and submissive manner that might be . but for them to intrude themselves into such an office as to advise the head of the church what to do in a matter peculiarly concerning him , as though he did not know what was fit to be done himself ; methinks you should not imagine that these men did act 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as became them , in doing it . could they possibly in any thing more declare , how little they thought it necessary for all churches to conform to that of rome , when they plead for dissenters in such a matter which the pope had absolutely declared himself about ? and how durst any of them slight the thunderbolts which the pope threatned them with ? yet not only polycrates and the asian bishops who joyned with him profess themselves not at all affrighted at them ; but the other churches looked not on themselves as obliged to forsake their communion on that account . if this be such an evidence of the popes power in one sense , i am sure it is a greater evidence of his weakness in another : it seems the head of the church began betimes to be troubled with the fumes of passion ; and it is a little unhappy , that the first instance of his authority should meet with so little regard in the christian world . if the pope did begin to assume so early , you see it was not very well liked of by the bishops of other churches . but it seems he had a mind to try his power and the weight of his arm ; but for all his haste , he was fain to withdraw it very patiently again . valesius thinks that he never went so far as to excommunicate the asian bishops at all , but the noise of his threatning to do it being heard by them , ( it seems the very preparing of his thunderbolts amazed the world ) irenaeus having call'd a synod of the bishops of gaul together , doth in their name write that letter , in eusebius , to victor to disswade him from it , and that it wrought so effectually with him , that he gave it over . and this he endeavours to prove . . because eusebius saith , he only endeavour'd to do it . but cardinal perron supposeth eusebius had a worse meaning then so in it ; i. e. that though the pope did declare them excommunicate , yet it took no effect because other bishops continued still in communion with them ; and therefore he calls eusebius an arrian and an enemy to the church of rome , when yet all the records of this story are derived from him . . because the epistles of irenaeus tend to perswade him not to cut them off ; whereas , if they had been excommunicate , it would have been rather to have restored them to communion ; and that photius , saith that irenaeus writ many letters to victor to prevent their excommunication . but because eusebius saith expresly , that he did by letters pronounce them out of the communion of the church , the common opinion seems more probable , and so socrates understands it ; but still i am to seek for such an argument of the acknowledgement of the popes authority then , as you would draw from it . yes , say you , because they do not tell him , he had no authority to do what he did ; which they would have done if they could without proclaiming themselves schismaticks ipso facto and shaking the very foundation of the churches discipline and vnity . but all this proceeds from want of understanding the discipline of the church at that time ; for excommunication did not imply any such authoritative act of throwing men out of the communion of the whole church , but only a declaring that they would not admit such persons to communion with themselves . and therefore might be done by equals to equals , and sometimes by inferiours to superiours . in equals it is apparent by johannes antiochenus in the ephesine council excommunicating cyril patriarch of alexandria ; and i suppose you will not acknowledge it may be done by inferiours , if we can produce any examples of popes being excommunicated ; and what say you then to the african bishops excommunicating pope vigilius as victor tununensis an african bishop himself relates it : will you say now that victors excommunicating the asian churches argued his authority over them , when another victor tells us , that the african bishops solemnly excommunicated the pope himself ? and i hope you will not deny but the bishop of rochester might as well excommunicate the archbishop of york , as these africans excommunicate the bishop of rome . what say you to the expunging the name of felix bishop of rome out of the diptychs of the church , by acacius the patriarch of constantinople ? what say you to hilary's anathema against pope liberius ? if these excommunications did not argue just power and authority over the persons excommunicated , neither could pope victors do it . for it is apparent by the practise of the church that excommunication argued no such superiority in the persons who did it ; but all the force of it lay in the sense of the church ; for by whomsoever the sentence was pronounced , if all other churches observed it , ( as most commonly they did while the vnity of the church continued ) then they were out of the communion of the catholick church ; if not , then it was only the particular declaration of those persons or churches who did it . and in this case the validity of the popes excommunication of the asian bishops depended upon the acceptance of it by other churches , which most consenting to it , he could not throw them out of the communion of the whole church , but only declare , that if they came to rome , he would not admit them to communion with him . and therefore ruffinus well renders that place in eusebius out of irenaeus his epistle to victor , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : by these words , nunquam tamen ob hoc repulsi sunt ab ecclesiae societate , aut venientes ab illis partibus non sunt suscepti , so that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may as well signifie not to receive as to cast out ; for the churches not receiving , is her casting out . thus , i hope , it is evident that his lordship hath received no injury by these lighter skirmishes . we now follow you into hotter service ; for you say , he ventures at last to grapple with the authority it self , alleadged by a. c. out of st. irenaeus ; where , in the first place , you wink and strike ; and let your blows fall besides him , for fear he should return them , or some one for him . you quarrel with his translation of the authority cited by him : but that the ground of this quarrel may be understood ; we must first enquire what his lordship hath to say for himself . the place of irenaeus is , to this church ( he speaks of rome ) , propter potentiorem principalitatem , for the more powerful principality of it , 't is necessary that every church , that is the faithful undique round about , should have recourse . now for this , ( his lordship saith ) there was very great reason in irenaeus his time , that upon any difference arising in the faith , omnes undique fideles , all the faithful , or , if you will , all the churches round about , should have recourse , that is , resort to rome being the imperial city , and so a church of more powerful principality , then any other at that time in those parts of the world . but this ( his lordship saith ) will not exalt rome to be head of the church vniversal . here your blood rises , and you begin a most furious encounter with his lordship for translating undique round about , as if ( say you ) st. irenaeus spake only of those neighbouring churches round about rome , and not the churches throughout the world ; whereas undique as naturally signifies , every where , and , from all parts : witness thomas thomasius , where the word undique is thus englished , from all parts , places , and corners , every where . can you blame me now if i seek for a retreat into some strong-hold , or if you will , some more powerful principality when i see so dreadful a charge begun , with thomas thomasius in the front ? you had routed us once before with rider , and other english lexicons ; but it seems rider had done service enough that time , now that venerable person thomas thomasius must be upon duty , and do his share for the catholick cause . you somewhere complain how much catholicks are straitned for want of books , would any one believe you that find you so well stored with thomas thomasius , rider , and other english lexicons ? you would sure give us some cause of suspition that there is some jesuits school taught in england , and that you are the learned master of it , by your being so conversant in these worthy authours . but although the authority of th. thomasius signifie very little with us , yet that of the greek lexicons might do much more if we had the original greek of irenaeus instead of his barbarous latin interpreter . for now it is uncertain what word irenaeus used , and so it is but a very uncertain conjecture which can be drawn from the signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , unless we knew , which of them was the genuine word in the greek of irenaeus . but you say , all of them undeniably signifie , from all parts vniversally : and that because they are rendred by the word undique . so that this will make an excellent proof , undique must signifie from all parts ; because 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do signifie so in greek ; and that these do undeniably signifie so much , appears because they are rendred by undique . and i grant they are so : for in the old glossary which goes under the name of cyril , undique is rendred by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and ●ully ( than whom we cannot possibly desire a better authour in this case ) renders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by undique . for in his book de finibus , he translates that of epicurus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by undique complerentur voluptatibus ; and so he renders that passage in plato's timaeus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by undique aequabilem , although as hen. stephanus notes , that be rather the signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but still there is some difference between 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in greek authours notes ex omni parte terrae , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 only ex quâvis parte ; so that the one signifies vniversally , the other indefinitely : undique relating properly to the circumference , as undique aequalis , on all sides it is equal , so that qui sunt undique fideles , are , those which lye upon all quarters round about . and so it doth not imply that all persons were bound to come , but that from all quarters some did come ; as herodian speaks of rome , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that it was very populous , and did receive them which came from all parts ; which doth very fitly explain the sense of irenaeus , that to rome being the imperial city , men came from all quarters . but the sense of this will be more fully understood by a parallel expression in the ninth canon of the council of antioch , in which it is decreed that the metropolitan should have the care of all the bishops in his province , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because all persons who have business from all parts , resort to the metropolis : here 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is the very same with the undique convenire , in irenaeus ; so that it relates not to any obligation on churches to resort thither , but that being the seat of the empire , all believers from all parts did make their recourse thither . which is most fully expressed by leo , speaking of s. peter's coming to rome , cujus nationis homines in hâc vrbe non essent ? aut quae uspiam gentes ignorarent , quod roma didicisset ? and so , if i grant you that it extends to all parts , i know not what advantages you will get by it : for irenaeus his design is , to shew that there was no such secret tradition left by the apostles , as the valentinians pretended . and for this he appeals to the church of rome , which being seated in the imperial city , to which believers from all parts did resort , it is impossible to conceive that the apostles should have left such a tradition , and it not to be heard of there : which is the plain , genuine meaning of irenaeus his words . not as you weakly imagine , that all churches in all doubts of faith , were bound to have their recourse thither , as to their constant guide therein . for irenaeus was not disputing , what was to be done by christians in doubts of faith ; but was enquiring into a matter of fact , viz. whether any such tradition were ever left in the church , or no ; and therefore nothing could be more pertinent or convincing , than appealing to that church to which christians resorted from all parts ; for it could not be conceived , but , if the apostles had left such a tradition any where , it would be heard of at rome . and you most notoriously pervert the meaning of irenaeus , when you would make the force of his argument to lye in the necessity of all christians resorting to rome , because the doctrine or tradition of the roman church was , as it were , the touchstone of all apostolical doctrine . but , i suppose you deal in some english logicians , as well as english lexicons , and therefore i must submit both to your grammar and logick : but your ingenuity is as great as your reason ; for you first pervert his lordships meaning , and then make him dispute ridiculously , that you might come out with your triumphant language , is not this fine meandrick logick , well beseeming so noble a labyrinth ? whereas his lordships reasoning is so plain and clear , that none but such a one as had a labyrinth in his brains , could have imagined any meanders in it : as appears by what i have said already , in the explication of the meaning of irenaeus . but that i may see the strength of your logick out of this place of irenaeus , i will translate undique and semper , as fully as you would have me , and give you the words at large , in which , by those who come from all places , the apostolical tradition is alwaies conserved . what is it you inferr hence ? from the premises you argue thus : all the faithful every where , must of necessity have recourse to the church of rome , by reason of her more powerful principality . this is s. irenaeus his proposition . but there could be no necessity they all should have recourse to that church , by reason of her more powerful principality , if her said power extended not to them all . this is evident to reason . ergo , this more powerful principality of the roman church , must needs extend to all the faithful every where , and not only to those of the suburbicary churches , or patriarchal diocese of rome , as the bishop pleads . now i see , you are a man at arms , and know , not only how to grapple with his lordship , but with irenaeus to boot . but we must first see , how irenaeus himself argues , that we may the better understand the force of what you deduce from him . the question , as i have told you already , was , whether the apostles left any such tradition in the church , as the valentinians pretended : irenaeus proves they did not , because , if there had been any such , the apostolical churches would certainly have preserved the memory of it ; but because it would be too tedious to insist on the succession of all churches ; he therefore makes choice of the most famous , the church of rome , in which the apostolical tradition had been derived by a succession of bishops down to his own time ; and by this ( saith he ) we confound all those who through vain glory , or blindness , do gather any such thing . for ( saith he ) to this church for the more powerful principality all churches do make resort , i. e. the believers from all parts , in which by those who come from all parts the apostolical tradition is alwaies preserved . we must now see , how irenaeus argues according to your sense of his words . if all the faithful every where , must of necessity have recourse to the church of rome , for her more powerful principality ; then there is no secret tradition left by the apostles . but , where lyes the connexion between these two ? what had the valentinians to do with the power of the church of rome over other churches ? that was not the business they disputed ; their question was , whether there were no such tradition as they pretended ? and rome might have never so great power over all churches , and yet have this secret tradition too . for now we see , when she pretends to the greatest power , nay , to infallibility , she pretends the highest to traditions . where then lyes the force of irenaeus his argument ? was it in this , that the valentinians did acknowledge the infallibility of the church of rome then , in traditions ? this were indeed to the purpose , if it could be proved ; or , doth irenaeus go about to prove this first ? but by what argument doth he prove it so , that the valentinians might be convinced by it ? yes , say you , he saith , that all the faithful must of necessity have recourse to the church of rome ? this is your way of proving indeed , to take things for granted ; but , how doth this necessity appear ? because , say you , she hath the more powerful principality : but , what principality do you mean ? over all churches ? but that was the thing in question . so that if you will make irenaeus speak sense , and argue pertinently , his meaning can be no other than this . if there be such a tradition left , it must be left somewhere among christians : if it be left among them , it may be known by enquiry , whether they own any such or no. but because it would be troublesome searching of all churches , we may know their judgement more compendiously ; there is the church of rome near us , a famous and ancient church , seated in the chief city of the empire , to which all persons have necessities to go ; and among them , you cannot but suppose , but that out of every church some faithful persons should come , and therefore it is very unreasonable to think , that the apostolical tradition hath not alwaies been preserved there , when persons come from all places thither . is not every thing in this account of irenaeus his words very clear and pertinent to his present dispute ? but in the sense you give of them , they are little to the purpose , and very precarious and inconsequent . and therefore since the more powerful principality is not that of the church , but of the city ; since the necessity of recourse thither , is not for doubts of faith , but other occasions : therefore it by no means follows thence , that this churches power did extend over the faithful every where ; thus by explaining your proposition , your conclusion is ashamed of it self , and runs away . for your argument comes to this ; if english men from all parts be forced to resort to london , then london hath the power over all england ; or if one should say , if some from all churches in england must resort to london , then the church at london hath power over all the churches in england ; and if this consequence be good , yours is ; for it is of the same nature of it ; the necessity of the resort , not lying in the authority of the church , but in the dignity of the city , the words in all probability in the greek , being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so relate to the dignity of rome , as the imperial city . from whence we proceed to the vindication of ruffinus , in his translation of the . canon of the council of nice . the occasion of which is this . his lordship saith , supposing that the powerful principality be ascribed to the church of rome , yet it follows not that it should have power over all churches ; for this power was confined within its own patriarchate and jurisdiction ; and that ( saith he ) was very large , containing all the provinces in the diocese of italy ( in the old sense of the word diocese ) which provinces the lawyers and others term suburbicaries . there were ten of them ; the three islands , sicily , corsica , and sardinia , and the other seven upon the firm land of italy . and this , i take it , is plain in ruffinus . for he living shortly after the nicene council , as he did , and being of italy , as he was , he might very well know the bounds of the patriarchs jurisdiction , as it was then practised . and he sayes expresly , that according to the old custom , the roman patriarchs charge was confined within the limits of the suburbican churches . to avoid the force of this testimony , cardinal perron laies load upon ruffinus . for he charges him with passion , ignorance , and rashness . and one piece of his ignorance is , that he hath ill translated the canon of the council of nice . now , although his lordship doth not approve of it as a translation ; yet he saith , ruffinus living in that time and place , was very like well to know and understand the limits and bounds of that patriarchate of rome , in which he lived . this ( you say ) is very little to his lordships advantage , since it is inconsistent with the vote of all antiquity , and gives s. irenaeus the lye ; but if the former be no truer than the latter , it may be very much to his advantage , notwithstanding what you have produced to the contrary . what the ground is , why the roman patriarchate was confined within the roman diocese , i have already shewed in the precedent chapter , in explication of the nicene canon . we must now therefore examine the reasons you bring , why the notion of suburbicary churches must be extended beyond the limits his lordship assigns ; that of the smalness of jurisdiction compared with other patriarchs , i have given an account of already , viz. from the correspondency of the ecclesiastical and civil government ; for the civil dioceses of the eastern part of the empire did extend much farther than the western did ; and that was the reason , why the patriarchs of antioch and alexandria , had a larger metropolitical jurisdiction than the bishop of rome had . but you tell us , that suburbicary churches must be taken as generally signifying all churches and cities any waies subordinate to the city of rome ; which was at that time known by the name of urbs , or city , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by way of excellency ; not as it related to the praefect or governour of rome , in regard of whose ordinary jurisdiction , we confess it commanded only those few places about it in italy ; but as it related to the emperour himself ; in which sense the word suburbicary , rightly signifies all cities or churches whatsoever within the roman empire ; as the word romania also anciently signified the whole imperial territory , as card. perron clearly proves upon this subject . but , this is one instance of what mens wits will do , when they are resolved to break through any thing : for , whoever that had read of the suburbicary regions and provinces in the code of theodosius , or other parts of the civil law , as distinguished from other provinces under the roman empire , and those in italy too , could ever have imagined that the notion of suburbicary churches had been any other than what was correspondent to those regions and provinces . but let that be granted which sirmondus so much contends for , that the notion of suburbicary may have different respects , and so sometimes be taken for the churches within the roman diocese , sometimes for those within the roman patriarchate , and sometimes for those , which are under the pope as vniversal pastor ; yet , how doth it appear that ever ruffinus took it in any other than the first sense ? no other provinces being called suburbicary , but such as were under the jurisdiction either of the roman prefect within a hundred miles of the city ( within which compass , references and appeals were made to him ) or at the most , to the lieutenant of the roman diocese , whose jurisdiction extended to those ten provinces which his lordship mentions . it is not therefore , in what sense words may be taken , but in what sense they were taken , and what evidence there is that ever they were so understood . never was any controversie more ridiculous , than that concerning the extent of the suburbicary regions or provinces , if suburbicary were taken in your sense for all the cities within the roman empire . but this extending of the suburbicary churches , as far as the roman empire , is like the art of those jesuits , who in their setting forth anastasius de vitis pontificum , in stephanus . turn'd papa vrbis into papa orbis : for that being so mean and contemptible a title , they thought much it should remain as it did ; but papa orbis was magnificent and glorious . i wonder therefore , that instead of extending the signification of suburbicary churches , you do not rather pretend that it ought to be read suborbicary , and so to suit exactly with the papa orbis , as importing all those churches which are under the power of the vniversal pastor . for , why should you stop at the confines of the roman empire ; how comes his jurisdiction to be confined within that ? by what right did he govern the churches within the empire , and not those without ? surely not , as primate , metropolitan , or patriarch of the roman empire , for those are titles yet unheard of in antiquity ; if as head of the church , how comes the jurisdiction of that to be at all limited ? were there no churches without the empire then ? i hope you will not deny that : if there were , to whom did the jurisdiction over them belong ? to the pope , or not ? if not , how comes he to be head of the church , and vniversal pastor ? if they did , why were not these suburbicary churches , as well as those within the empire ? besides , it is confessed by the learnedest among you , that when the notion of suburbicary is extended beyond the suburbicary provinces , it is not out of any relation to the city , but to the power of the bishop of the city , and therefore the suburbicary churches may be larger than the suburbicary provinces . but if this be true ( as it is the only probable evasion ) then it is impossible for you , to confine the suburbicary churches within the roman empire , without confining the jurisdiction of the roman bishop within those bounds too . for if the inlarging the notion of surburbicary churches depends upon the extent of his power , the fixing the limits of those churches , determines the bounds of his power too . which is utterly destructive to your pretences of the pope's being head of the vniversal church , and not barely of the churches within the roman empire . but if it had been ruffinus his design to express by suburbicary churches , all those within the roman empire , surely he made choice of the most unhappy expression to do it by , which he could well have thought of . for , it being then so well known what the suburbicary provinces were , that in the code of theodosius , where they are so often mentioned , they are not distinctly enumerated , because they were then as well understood as the african , gallican , or britannick provinces ; how absurd were it for him , to take a word in common use , and so well known , and apply it to such a sense , as no example besides can be produced for it . for if any one at that time should have spoken of the african , gallican , or britannick churches , no one would have imagined any other than those which were contained in the several provinces under those names . what reason is there then , that any thing else should be apprehended by the suburbicary churches ? i know the last refuge of most of your side , instead of explaining these suburbicary churches , hath been to rail at ruffinus , and call him dunce and blockhead , and enemy to the roman church ( instances were easie to be given , if it were at all necessary ) but besides that , it were easie to make it appear , that ruffinus was no such fool , as some have taken him for : ( and if they think so , because s. hierom gives him such hard words , they must think so of all whom s. hierom opposed ) he is sufficiently vindicated in this translation by the ancient vatican copy of the nicene canons , out of which this very canon is produced by sirmondus , and the very same word of suburbicary therein used . and that in such a manner , as utterly destroies your sense of the suburbicary churches , for such as are within the roman empire ; for that copy calls them , loca suburbicaria ; and , will you say , those are the provinces within the roman empire too ? can any one rationally think that any other places should be called suburbicary , but such as lye about the city ; and by the same interpretation which you here use , you may call all england the suburbs of london ; because london is the city , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as you speak ; and therefore all the churches of england must be suburbicary to london . but if you think this incongruous , you may on the same account judge the other to be so too : it appears then , that the suburbicary places in the vatican copy ( and in that very ancient copy which justellus had , which agrees with the vatican ) are the same with the suburbicary churches in ruffinus ; and , if you will explain these latter of the roman empire , you must do the former too . but not only the vatican copy , but all other different versions of the nicene canon utterly overthrow this opinion of cardinal perron , that the suburbicary churches must be taken for those within the roman empire . for in the arabick version published by turrianus , it is thus rendred , siquidem similitèr episcopus romae , i. e. successor petri apostoli , potestatem habet omnium civitatum , & locorum quae sunt circa eam . are all the cities and places in the roman empire , circa eam , about the city of rome ? if not , neither can the churches be ? and in that arabick paraphrase , which salmasius had of the famous peireskius , it is translated much more agreeably to the nicene canon in these words ; propterea quod episcopus romanus etiam hunc morem obtinet , & hoc ei adjunctum est , ut potestatem habeat supra civitates , & loca quae prope eam sunt . which is yet more full , to shew the absurdity of your exposition , for these suburbicary churches must be then in places near the city of rome . and agreeably to these , aristinus , the greek collector of the canons hath it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which ruffinus his suburbicary doth exactly render . by whom now , must we be judged , what is meant by these suburbicary churches ? by you who make a forced and strained interpretation of the word suburbicary to such a sense , of which there is no evidence in antiquity , or reason , and is withall manifestly repugnant to the design of the canon , which is to proportion the dioceses of the bishops of antioch and alexandrina , by the example of rome ( which had been very absurd if these suburbicary churches did comprehend the dioceses of alexandria and antioch , and all other provinces , as you make them ) ? or else must we be judged by the ancient versions of the nicene canon , latin and arabick , and by other greek paraphrases , all which unanimously concurr to overthrow that figment , that the suburbicary churches are all those within the roman empire . and this the learned petrus de marcâ was so sensible of , that he saith , ruffinus did rectissimè & ex usu recepto , very agreeably both to reason and custom , compare the alexandrian and roman bishop in this , that he should have the power over the diocese of aegypt , by the same right that the bishop of rome had over the vrbicary diocese ; or , saith he , ut ruffinus-eligantissime loquitur , in ecclesiis suburbicariis , id est , in iis ecclesiis quae decem provinciis suburbicariis continebantur ; as ruffinus most elegantly speaks ( sure then he thought him no such ignorant person , as perron and others from him have reproached him to be ) in the suburbicary churches , that is , in those churches which are contained in the ten suburbicary provinces . for , as as he goes on , the calling of synods , the ordination of bishops , the full administration of the churches in those provinces , did belong to the bishop of rome ; as to the bishop of alexandria in the aegyptian diocese , and to the bishop of antioch in the oriental . which he likewise confirms by the ancient latin interpreter of the nicene canons , who , he saith , was elder than dionysius exiguns ; in whose interpretation , he makes the suburbicaria loca to contain the four regions about rome , which made the proper metropolitan province of the roman bishop comprehending sixty nine bishopricks ; and that which he calls his province , to be the vrbicary diocese , contained in those ten provinces which his lordship mentions . but the pope's being vniversal bishop having so little evidence elsewhere , his lordships adversary at last hath recourse to this , that the bishop of rome is s. peter 's successor , and therefore to him we must have recourse . to which his lordship answers ; the fathers i deny not , ascribe very much to s. peter ; but 't is to s. peter in his own person . and among them epiphanius is as free and as frequent in extolling s. peter , as any of them : and yet did he never intend to give an absolute principality to rome in s. peter 's right ; which he at large manifests by a place particularly insisted on , in which he proves , that the building of the church on s. peter in epiphanius his sense , is not as if he and his successors were to be monarchs over it for ever : but it is the edifying and establishing the church in the true faith of christ , by the confession which s. peter made . and so , saith he , he expresses himself elsewhere most plainly , that christ's building his church upon this rock , was upon the confession of s. peter , and the solid faith contained therein . and that epiphanius could not mean that s. peter was any rock or foundation of the church , so as that he and his successors must be relyed on in all matters of faith , and govern the church like princes and monarchs , he proves not only by the context , but because he makes s. james to succeed our lord in the principality of the church . and epiphanius , saith he , was too full of learning and industry , to speak contrary to himself in a point of this moment . this is the summ of his lordships discourse : to which you answer , that it is clear even by the texts of epiphanius , that this promise by christ to s. peter , is derived to his successors ; which you prove from hence , because he saith , that by the gates of hell , heresies and hereticks are understood ; now this , say you , cannot be understood of s. peter 's person alone ; for then , why not heresies and hereticks prevail against the church after s. peter 's death ; yea so far as utterly to extinguish the true faith ? but , cannot god preserve the church from being extinguished by heresies , though s. peter hath no infallible successor ? is not the promise , that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church ? it doth not say , that the gates of hell shall not prevail against any that shall pretend to be his successors at rome : for if heresies be those gates , they have too often prevailed against him . and , is this your way indeed to secure the church , by providing s. peter such successors , which may be hereticks themselves ? but much more wisely did s. gregory say , if one pretends to be vniversal bishop , then upon his falling , the church must fall too ; much more wisely the council of basil in their synodal epistle , object this as the necessary consequent of the doctrine of the pope's supremacy , that , errante pontifice , quod saepe contigit & contingere potest , tota erraret ecclesia ; that , in case the pope erre , which often hath happened , and often may , the whole church must erre too . and yet this is your way to secure the church from errours and heresies . if you designed to ruine it , you could not do it in a more compendious way , than to oblige the whole church to believe the dictates of one , who is so far from that infallibility which s. peter had , that he follows him in nothing more than his falls : i wish he would in his repentance too , and that would be the best way to secure the church from errours and heresies . which she can never be secured from , as long as one pretends to be her head , who may not only erre himself , but propound that to be believed infallibly , which is notoriously false . for that popes as popes may erre , and propound false doctrine to the church , not only protestants , but some of your own communion have abundantly proved ; particularly sim. vigorius in his defence of richerius in his commentary on the forecited synodal epistle of the council of basil. and calls that opinion , that the pope may erre as a private doctor , but not as pope , ineptissimam opinionem , a most foolish opinion . for otherwise , as he saith , it would be most absurd to say , that the pope might be deposed for heresie ; for he is not deposed as a private doctor , but as pope . and this he proves by the contradictious decrees of adrian . to adrian . and leo . and so of formosus , martinus , romanus , to johannes , stephanus , and sergius ; nay , he instanceth in that famous decree of boniface . in pronouncing so definitively , that it was de necessitate salutis , subesse romano pontifici ( necessary to salvation to be subject to the pope ) and that he decreed this as pope , appears by those words , declaramus , dicimus , definimus , & pronunciamus , omnino esse ▪ de necessitate salutis ; than which words , nothing can be more express and definitive , and yet pope innocent . asserts , that the king of france hath no superiour upon earth . is not the church like then to be well secured from heresies , when her infallible heads may so apparently contradict each other , and this acknowledged by men of your own communion . nothing then can be more absurd or unreasonable , than to say , that the church cannot be preserved from being extinguished by heresie , unless the pope be s. peter's successor , as head of the church . to his lordships testimonies out of epiphanius , that s. james succceded our lord in the principality of the church , you answer , . that in the places he alledges , there 's not a word of the churches principality . . that he only implies that he was the first of the apostles made bishop of any particular place , viz. at hierusalem , which is called christs throne , as any episcopal chair is in ancient ecclesiastical writers . but , whosoever will examine the places in epiphanius , will find much more intended by him , than what you will allow : for not only he saith , that he first had an episcopal chair , but that our lord committed to him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , his throne upon earth , which surely is much more than can be said of any meer episcopal chair ; and i believe you will be much to seek where hierusalem was ever called christ's throne upon earth after his ascension to heaven . besides , if it were , it is the strongest prejudice that may be against the principality of the roman see ; if jerusalem was made by christ his throne here . and , that a principality over the whole church is intended by epiphanius , seems more clear by that other place which his lordship cites , wherein he not only saith , that james was first made bishop , but gives this reason for it , because he was the brother of our lord ; and if you observe , how epiphanius brings it in , you will say , he intended more by it , than to make him the first bishop . for he was disputing before , how the kingdom and the priesthood did both belong to christ , and that christ had transfused both into his church , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but his throne is established for ever in his holy church ; consisting both of his kingdom and priesthood , both which he communicated to his church ; quare jacobus primus omnium est episcopus constitutus , as petavius renders it , so that he seems to settle james in that principality of the church , which he had given to it ; and what reason can you have to think , but that christ's throne , in which epiphanius , saith james , was settled in the other place , is the same with his throne in the church which he mentions here ? and , what would you give for so clear a testimony in antiquity for christ's settling s. peter in his throne at rome , as here is for his placing s. james in it at jerusalem ? his lordship goes on . and he still tells us , the bishop of rome is s. peter 's successor . well , suppose that , what then ? what ? why then , he succeeded in all s. peter 's prerogatives which are ordinary , and belonged to him as a bishop , though not in the extraordinary , which belonged to him as an apostle . for that is it which you all say , but no man proves . yes , you say , bellarmine hath done it in his disputations on that subject . for this you produce a saying of his , that when the apostles were dead , the apostolical authority remained alone in s. peter 's successor . i see with you still , saying and proving are all one . but since you referr the reader to bellarmine for ▪ proofs , i shall likewise referr him to the many sufficient answers which have been given him . you argue stoutly afterwards , that because primacy in the modern sense of it implies supremacy , therefore wherever the fathers attribute a primacy to peter among the apostles , they mean his authority and power over them . i see , you are resolved to believe that there cannot be one , two , and three ; but the first must be head over all the rest . a primacy of order , his lordship truly saith , was never denied him by protestants ; and an vniversal supremacy of power was never granted him by the primitive christians . prove but in the first place that s. peter had such a supremacy of power over the apostles , and all christian churches , and that this power is conveyed to the pope , you will do something . in the mean time we acknowledge as much primacy , authority , and principality in s. peter , as d. reynolds proves in the place you cite ; none of which come near that supremacy of power which you contend for , and we must deny till we see it better proved than it is by you . but you offer it from s. hierom , because he saith , the primacy was given to peter for preventing schism , but a meer precedency of order is not sufficient for that . but , doth not s. hierom in the words immediately before , say , that the church is equally built on all the apostles , and that they all receive the keyes of the kingdom of heaven , and that the firmness of the church is equally grounded on them ; and , can he possibly then mean in the following words any other primacy , but such as is among equals , and not any supremacy of power over them ? and certainly you think the apostles very unruly , who would not be kept in order by such a primacy as this is , unless a s. peter's full jurisdiction over them . and since it is so evident , that s. hierom can mean no other but such a preheminence as this for preventing schism , you had need have a good art , that can deduce from thence a necessity of a supremacy of power in the church for that end . for , say you , whatsoever power or jurisdiction was necessary in the apostles time for preventing schisms , must , à fortiori , be necessary in all succeeding ages ; but still be sure to hold to that power or jurisdiction which was in the apostles times , and we grant you all you can prove from it . you still dispute gallantly , when you beg the question , and argue as formally as i have met with one , when you have supposed that which it most concerned you to prove ; which is , that god hath appointed a supremacy of power in one particular person , alwaies to continue in the church for preservation of faith and unity in it . for , if you suppose the church cannot be governed , or schism prevented without this , you may well save your self a labour of proving any further . but , so far are we from seeing such a supremacy of power as you challenge to the pope to be necessary for preventing schisms , that we are sufficiently convinced that the vsurping of it hath caused one of the greatest ever was in the christian world . chap. vii . the popes authority , not proved from scripture , or reason . the insufficiency of the proofs from scripture acknowledged by romanists themselves . the impertinency of luk. . . to that purpose . no proofs offered for it but the suspected testimonies of popes in their own cause . that no infallibility can thence come to the pope as st. peters successour , confessed and proved by vigorius , and mr. white . the weakness of the evasion of the popes erring as a private doctor , but not as pope , acknowledged by them . john . . proves nothing towards the popes supremacy . how far the popes authority is owned by the romanists over kings . t. c's . beggings of the question , and tedious repetitions , past over . the argument from the necessity of a living judge , considered . the government of the church not monarchical , but aristocratical . the inconveniencies of monarchical government in the church manifested from reason . no evidence that christ intended to institute such government in his church , but much against it . the communicatory letters in the primitive church argued an aristocracy . gersons testimony from his book de auferibilitate papae , explained and vindicated . st. hieromes testimony full against a monarchy in the church . the inconsistency of the popes monarchy with that of temporal princes . the supremacy of princes in ecclesiastical matters , asserted by the scripture and antiquity , as well as the church of england . we are now come to the places of scripture insisted on for the proof of the popes authority ; which you have been so often and successfully beaten out of , by so many powerful assaults of our writers , that it is matter of admiration that you should yet think to find any shelter there . for those which you yet account fortresses and bulwarks for your cause , have not only been triumphed over by your adversaries , but have been slighted by the wisest of your party , and deserted as most untenable places . as i shall make it appear to you in the progress of this dispute : in which i shall not barely shew the palpable weakness of your pretended proofs , but bring unanswerable arguments against them from persons of your own communion . for the force of that reason by which the protestants have prevailed over you in this dispute hath been so great , that it hath brought over some of the learnedst of your party , not only to an acknowledgement of the insufficiency of these proofs , but to a zealous opposition against that very doctrine which you attempt to prove by them . but such is the fate of a sinking cause , that it catcheth hold of any thing to save it self , though it be the anchor of the ship which makes it sink the sooner . thus it will appear to be in these baffled proofs , which you only bring into the field to shew what streights you are in for help ; and no sooner appear there , but they fall off to the conquering side , and help only to promote your ruine . but since they are in the place where arguments should be , we must in civility consider them , as if they were so . the first place then is , luke . . i have pray'd for thee that thy faith fail not . what would a philosopher think , were he chosen as vmpire between us , ( as once one was between origen and his adversaries ) to hear this place produced to prove the popes authority and infallibility ? and when a reason is demanded of so strange an inference ( from a promise of recovery to st. peter , to an impossibility of falling in the pope ) nothing else produced , but the forged epistles of some popes , and the partial testimonies of others in their own cause ? could he think otherwise , but that these men loved their cause dearly , and would fain prove it , if they could tell how : but since there was neither evidence in reason or more indifferent writers in it , yet to let them see how confident they were of the popes infallibility , they would produce their infallible testimonies , to prove they were infallible . for we ask , what evidence is there that the priviledge obtained for st. peter , whatever it is , must descend to his successours ; if to his successours , whether to all his successours , or only to some ; if only to some , why to those at rome more then at antioch or any other place ; if to them at rome , why it must be understood of a doctrinal and not a saving faith , as it was in st. peter ; if of doctrinal , why not absolutely , but only conditionally , if they teach the church ? for all these and several other enquiries of this nature , we are told , it must be so understood ; but if you ask why , all the answer we can get is , because seven popes at one time or other said so . but at this you grow very angry ; and tell us , . that bellarmine , besides these , gives several pregnant reasons from the text it self . what were it worth , to have a sight of them ? if you had thought them so pregnant you are not so sparing of taking out of bellarmine , but you would have given them us over again . bellarmins excellent proofs are two or three sine dubio's . sine dubio , saith he , hic dominus speciale aliquid petro impetravit . and who denies it ? but we grant , it was so special to him that it never came to his successours ; and again , sine dubio , ipsis praecipuè debeat esse nota suae sedis auctoritas , speaking of the popes testimonies for themselves , without all doubt they knew best their own authority . they were wonderfully to blame else ; but all the difficulty is , to perswade others to believe them sine dubio , when they speak in their own cause . and for that i can find no pregnant reason in him at all . well , but we have a third sine dubio yet , which may be more to the purpose than either of the other two . for bellarmin distinguishes of two priviledges which christ obtained for st. peter , the first is , that himself should never lose the true faith though he were tempted of the devil ; and this his lordship grants , that it was the special grace which christs prayer obtained , that , notwithstanding satans sifting him , and his threefold denyal of his master , he should not fall into a final apostacy : the second priviledge is , that he , as bishop , should not be able to teach any thing against the faith , sive , ut in sede ejus nunquam inveniretur qui doceret contra veram fidem , or , that there should be none found in his see who should do it . is not here an excellent conjunction disjunctive in this sive , or ? that he should not do it himself , or , that his successours should not do it ? doth not this want pregnant proofs ? and we have them in the next words . the first of these , it may be ( very modestly ! ) did not descend to his successours ; but secundum , sine dubio , manavit ad posteros sive successores ; the second , without all doubt , did descend to his successours . are not these pregnant reasons ; three sine dubio's given us by cardinal bellarmin ? for when he comes to confirm this last sine dubio , he produces nothing but those testimonies , which his lordship excepts against , as not fit to be judges in their own cause . if these then be bellarmins pregnant reasons out of the text , no wonder that his lordship was not pleased to answer them . but yet you are displeased , that his lordship should think that popes were interessed persons in their own cause . no , no ; all that ever sat in that see , were such holy , meek , humble , self-denying men , that they would not for a world , let a word fall to exalt their own authority in the church . and we are mightily to blame to think otherwise of them . is it possible to think that felix , and lucius , should speak for their own interest ; though the epistles under their names be such notorious counterfeits , that all sober men among you are ashamed of them ? is it possible that leo . should do it , who was so humble a man that he contended with . bishops of the council of chalcedon about the primacy of his see ; and whose epistles breathe so much of self-denyal in all the contests he had about it ? and although pope agatho and the rest be of later standing , when the popes did begin a little more openly to take upon them ; yet , can the protestants think that these men were byassed with their proper interest ? are not these weak pretences for them to reject their authority upon ? for your part ( you say ) , you could never understand this proceeding of protestants . the more a great deal is the pitty ; and if we could help your understanding and not endanger our own , we would willingly do it . well , but though bellarmins pregnant reasons prove so abortive , and though the popes authorities should not be taken , yet his lordship must needs wrong bellarmin , in saying , that he doth upon the matter confess , that there is not one father in the church disinteressed in the cause , who understands this text as bellarmin doth , before theophylact. and the reason is , because , though bellarmin cite no more , yet there might be more for all that : for , must he needs confcss , there are no more authours citable in any subject , but what he cites himself ? as though bellarmin were wont to leave out any authorities which made for his purpose , especially in so weighty a subject as this ? do you think he was so weak a person to run to popes authorities , if he could have found any other ? and when he produces no more , is it not a plain confession he found no more to his purpose ? but i am weary of such great impertinencies : and would fain meet with some thing of matter that might hold up the readers patience as well as mine . all that ever i can meet with , that hath any thing of tendency that way , is , that this priviledge of the indeficiency of st. peters faith doth not belong to him as an apostle , but rather as he was prince of the apostles , and appointed to be christs vicar on earth after him . very handsomely begg'd again ! but where is the proof for all this ? have you no popes stand ready again to attest the truth of it ? for none else that have any reason would ever say it ? did st. peter deny christ as prince of the apostles ? indeed it was then much for his honour that the captain should fly from his colours first ? and christs vicar upon earth should the most need to have his faith pray'd for , that it should not fail ? i had thought st. peter had been head of the apostles , and not simon : if christ had spoke to him as his vicar , he would sure have call'd him peter , peter , and not simon , simon . but it seems he did not attend , that peter was the rock , on which his church must be built : or else he minded it so much , that he thought that name improper when he mentions his falling ; you have therefore stoutly and unanswerably ( not proved , but ) demonstrated that these words were spoken of st. peter , not as an apostle , but as christs vicar upon earth . but suppose it were so ; what is this to those who pretend to be his successours ? yes very much . for ( say you ) , whatever our saviour intended should descend by vertue of that prayer of his , did effectively so descend . you might have put one of bellarmins sine dubio's to this . for , whoever was so sensless as to question that ? but you confess , it is a very disputable question , whether every thing which christ by his prayer intended and obtained for st. peter , was likewise intended by him to descend to st. peters successours . yet that some special priviledge was to descend to them , is , you say , manifest by bellarmins authorities and reasons . if from nothing else , i dare confidently say , no man in his wits will believe it manifest . and what that is , neither you , nor any one else can either prove or understand . yes ( say you ) it is , that none of his successours should ever so farr fall from the faith , as to teach heresie , in pontificalibus , or , as you speak with bellarmine , any thing contrary to faith tanquam pontifex ; i. e. in vertue of that authority which they were to have in the church as st. peters successours . here then we fix a while to see this proved ; but our expectation is again frustrated : for instead of proofs we meet with the old mumpsimus , of the popes erring as private doctor , but not as pastour of the church : a distinction so ridiculous , that many among your selves deride it , as will appear presently . and therefore put in your tanquam pontifex as long as you please , you will gain no great matter by it . when you can prove that christ did intend in that one prayer , some part of the gift personally and absolutely to st. peter , and another part conditionally to his successours , i will grant it no absurdity to say , that perhaps some part of the gift did not belong to either of them . but these are such strange fetches out of a plain scripture , that those may admire your subtilty , who cannot be convinced by your reason . yet to let you see that these things are not so clear as you would have them , i shall bring you some arguments out of your own writers against your interpretation of this place , and i pray answer them at your leasure . vigorius therefore proves that this place cannot be understood of st. peter and his successours , that their faith should not fail ; for then saith he . . the canons had decreed to no purpose that a pope might be deposed in case of heresie ; for those that suppose that he may fall into heresie , do doubtless suppose that his faith fails . now here is a witness against you , from your own church and that out of your canons too ; and that is better worth then twenty testimonies of popes for you . . if this were understood of st. peters successours , they who succeeded him at antioch would enjoy this priviledge as well as those at rome ; for they are , saith he , as well st. peters successours as the other . and , saith he , if they understand this of one and not of the other totis faucibus se deridendos propinarent , they expose themselves to contempt and laughter . . if this were true of st. peters successours at rome , then the decrees of one pope could not be revoked by the other ; because , it is impossible they should erre in making those decrees . but it is not vigorius alone who hath shewed the weakness of your arguments from this place ; for our learned countryman mr. white hath more fully and largely discovered the weakness of all your pretences from scripture , fathers , and reason , concerning the popes succeeding st. peter in his infallibility . and particularly as to this place he saith , that either it concerns the present danger st. peter was in , or else doth represent what was to be afterwards in the church : and that it doth primarily and directly relate to st. peters imminent tentation , all the circumstances perswade us ; first , because he is called by his private name simon , and not by his apostolical name peter . . because christ immediately subjoyns after st. peters answer his threefold denyal of him . . the event it self makes it appear , by the apostles flight , st. peters temptation and fall , his conversion and tears when christ looked on him ; and by his confirming the disciples after christs resurrection . but ( saith he ) , if this place be taken as respecting the future times of the church , the same thing must be expected in st. peters successours , which fell out in st. peter himself , viz. that either through fear , or some other motive they may be drawn into the shew of heresie , or into heresie it self ; but so , as either in themselves or their successours , they should be restored to the catholick faith. but what reason there is for this latter interpretation ( though destructive to the popes infallibility ) neither doth that person acquaint us , nor can i possibly understand . all the evasion that you have to avoid the force of what ever is brought against you out of this place , is by conjuring up that rare distinction of the popes not erring when he defines any thing as matter of faith. but see what that same person saith of this distinction of yours , excipiunt aliqui , saith he , papam posse esse haereticum , sed non posse haeresim promulgare . adeò quidlibot effutire pro libidine , etiam licitum est . some answer , that the pope may be a heretick , but cannot promulge or define heresie : so far do men think it lawful to say what they please . but can any man , saith he , be guilty of so much incogitancy , as not to see that these things are consequent upon each other ; it is a pear tree , and therefore it will bear pears : it is a vine , and therefore it will bring forth grapes . christ saith , an evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit ; but these say , an evil tree cannot bring forth bad fruit . the apostle saith , the wisdom of the flesh cannot be subject to god ; but these say , it cannot but be subject to god. and then he further presseth , that they would declare from what authour they brought this contradiction into the church of god , lest men should believe they were inspired by the father of lyes when they made it . nay he goes further yet in these stinging expressions , an putatis licere , in re quae totum ecclesiae statum a●vivum tangit , novitatem adeò inauditam , adeò rationi adversantem , adeò excedentem omnem fidem , ex somniis cerebri vestri inferre ? do you think it lawful , in a matter which toucheth the whole state of the church to the quick , to produce so unheard of a novelty , so repugnant to reason , so far above all faith , out of the dreams of your own brain ? go now , and answer these things among your selves ; complain not that we account such evasions silly , absurd , and ridiculous ; you see they are accounted so by some of your own communion ( or , at least , who pretend to be so ) and those no contemptible persons neither . but such as have seen so much of the weakness and absurdity of your common doctrine , that they openly and confidently oppose it , and that upon the same grounds that protestants had done it before them . and i hope , this is much more to our purpose to shew the insufficiency of these proofs , than it was for you to produce the testimonies of several popes in their own cause . which was all the proof that bellarmin or you had , that these words are extended to st. peters successours , when we bring men from among your selves , who produce several reasons , that they ought not to be so interpreted . but yet there is another place as pertinent as the former ; the celebrated pasce oves & agnos , john . , , . but sheep and lambs , say you , are christs whole flock . so there are both these , saith his lordship , in every flock that is not of barren weathers ; and every apostle , and every apostles successour hath charge to feed both sheep and lambs ; that is weaker and stronger christians , not people and pastours , subjects and governours , as a. c. expounds it , to bring the necks of princes under the roman pride . no ( say you ) , no such charge is given to any other apostles , in the places his lordship cites , matth. . . matth. . . for these speak of persons unbaptized , but that place of st. john , of those who were actually christs flock ; and the words being absolutely and indefinitely pronounced , must be understood generally and indefinitely of all christs sheep and lambs , that is , of all christians whatsoever , not excepting the apostles themselves ; unless it appear from some other place , that the other apostles had the feeding of all christs sheep , as universally and unlimitedly committed to them , as they were here to st. peter . but all this is nothing , as vigorius speaks about the solvere , ligare , pascere , but dudum explosis cantilenis aures christianorum obtundere , to bring us those things over and over , which have been answered as oft as they have been brought . for how often have you been told , that these words contain no particular commission to st. peter , but a more vehement exhortation to the discharge of his duty , and that pressed with the quickness of the question before it , lovest thou me ? how often , that the full commission to the apostles was given before ? as the father hath sent me , so send i you . and that , as christ was by his fathers appointment the chief shepheard of the sheep and lambs too ; so christ by this equal commission to all the apostles gives them all an equal power and authority to govern his flock : how often , that nothing appears consequent upon this , whereby st. peter took this office upon him ? but that afterwards we find st. peter call'd the apostle of the circumcision , which certainly he would never have been , had he been looked on as the vniversal pastour of the church ; we find the apostles sending st. peter to samaria , which was a very unmannerly action , if they looked on him as head of the church . how often , that these indefinite expressions are not exclusive of the pastoral charge of other apostles over the flock of christ ? when they are not only bid to preach the gospel to every creature , but even those bishops which they ordained in several churches are charged to feed the flock ; and therefore certainly the apostles themselves had not only a charge to preach to unbaptized persons ( as you suppose ) but to govern the flock of those who were actually christs sheep and lambs , as well as st. peter ? how often , i say , have you been told all these and several other things in answer to this place ; and have you yet the confidence to object it , as though it had never been taken notice of , without ever offering to take off those answers which have been so frequently given ? but you must be pardoned in this , as in all other things of an equal impossibility . well , but his lordship objects a shrewd consequence from this universal pastourship ; that this brings the necks of princes under the roman pride . and if kings be meant , ( his lordship saith ) yet the command is , pasce , feed them ; but deponere , or occidere , to depose or kill them , is not pascere in any sense ; lanii id est , non pastoris , that 's the butchers , not the shepheards part . this , you call , his lordships winding about , and falling upon that odious question of killing and deposing kings . an odious question indeed , whether we consider the grounds , or the effects and consequents of it . but yet you would seem to clear your selves from the odium of it . first , by saying that it is a gross fallacy , to argue a negatione speciei ad negationem generis , which is a new kind of logick . it is indeed , for it is of your own coyning ; for his lordship argues ab affirmatione generis ad affirmationem speciei , and i hope this is no new logick , unless you think he that saith , he hath power over all living creatures , hath not thereby power over men too . his lordship therefore doth not argue against the popes vniversal supremacy from the denyal of that , but deduces that as a consequence from your assertion , and explication of what you mean by sheep and lambs . but this is but a sleight answer in comparison of what follows ; secondly , we answer , that the point of killing kings , is a most false and scandalous imputation ; scandalous enough indeed , if false : and though your popes have not given express warrant for the doing it , yet it is sufficiently known , how the pope in consistory could not contain his joy when it was done , in the case of henry . of france . and it hath been sufficiently confessed and lamented by persons of your own communion , how much the doctrine of the jesuits hath encouraged those assassinations of those two successive henryes of france . will you , or dare you vindicate the doctrines of mariana , and others , which do not obscurely deliver their judgement , as to that very thing of killing haeretical princes ? but , if we should grant you this , that the pope may not command to kill , what say you to that of deposing princes ; which seldome falls much short of the other ? as to this , you dare not cry , it is a false and scandalous imputation , as you did to the other ; but you answer , 't is no point of your faith , that the pope hath power to do it ; and therefore you say it is no part of your task to dispute it . is this all the security princes have from you , that it is no point of your faith , that the pope hath power to do it ? is it not well enough known , that there are many things which are held undoubtedly by the greatest part of your church , which yet you say , are no points of faith ? and yet in this you are directly contradicted by one who knew what were points of faith among you , as well as you , and that was father creswell ; whose testimony i have cited already ; and he saith expresly , certum est , & de fide , it is a thing certain , and of faith : that the subjects of an haeretical prince , are not only freed from allegiance , but are bound , ex hominum christianorum dominatu ejicere , to cast him out of his power , which certainly is more than the deposing of him . and sanders plainly enough saith , that a king that will not submit to the popes authority , is by no means to be suffered , but his subjects ought to do their utmost endeavour that another may be placed in his room . indeed , he saith not , as the other doth , that this is de fide , but that is the only reserve you have when a doctrine is odious and infamous to the world , to cry out , it is not de side , when yet it may be as firmly believed among you , as any that you account de fide . and if you believe the duke of alva in his manifesto at the siege of pampelona , when the pope had deposed the king of navarre to whom that city belonged , he saith , that it is not doubted but the pope had power to depose heretical princes . and if you had been of another opinion , you ought to have declared your self more fully than you do . if you had said , that indeed some were of that opinion , but you abhorred and detested it , you had spoken to the purpose ; but when you use only that pitiful evasion , that it is not of faith , &c. you sufficiently shew , what your judgement is , but that you dare not publickly own it . it seems , you remember what was said by your masters in reference to emanuel sà , non fuit opus ad ista descendere , there was no need to meddle with those things . it seems , if there had been , there was no hurt in the doctrine , but only that it was unseasonable . i pray god keep us from that time , when you shall think it needful to declare your selves in this point . but you conclude this with a most unworthy and scandalous reflection on protestants , in these words ; but what protestants have both done and justified in the worst of these kinds , is but too fresh in memory . but , were those the practices and principles of protestants ? were they not abhorred and detested in the highest manner by all true protestants , both at home and abroad ? it will be well , if you can clear some of your selves from having too much a hand in promoting both those principles and practices . i suppose you cannot but have heard , who it was is said to have expressed so much joy at the time of that horrid execution ; what counsels and machinations are said to have been among some devoted sons of the church of rome abroad about that time : therefore clear your selves more than yet you have done , of those imputations , before you charge that guilt on protestants , which they express the highest abhorrence of . and let the names of such who either publickly or privately abett or justifie such horrid actions be under a continual anathema to all generations . after all this discourse about the popes authority , a. c. brings it at last home to the business of schism . for , he saith , the bishop of rome shall never refuse to feed and govern the whole flock in such sort , as that neither particular man nor church shall have just cause , under pretence of reformation in manners of faith , to make a separation from the whole church . this ( his lordship saith ) by a. c 's favour , is meer begging the question . for this is the very thing which the protestants charge upon him ; namely , that he hath governed , if not the whole , yet so much of the church as he hath been able to bring under his power , so as that he hath given too just cause of the present continued separation . and , as the corruptions in the doctrine of faith , in the church of rome , were the cause of the first separation ; so are they at this present day the cause why the separation continues . and the oppression of the church of rome , he further adds , is the great cause of all the errours in that part of the church which is under the roman jurisdiction . and for the protestants , they have made no separation from the general church properly so called , but their separation is only from the church of rome , and such other churches as by adhering to her , have hazarded themselves , and do now miscall themselves the whole catholick church . nay , even here the protestants have not left the church of rome in her essence , but in her errours ; not in the things which constitute a church , but only in such abuses and corruptions , as work towards the dissolution of a church . let now any indifferent reader be judge , whether his lordship , or a. c. be the more guilty in begging the question . for all the answer you can give , is , that his lordship begs it , in saying that the roman church is not the whole catholick church , and that the roman catholick church may be in an errour ; but the former we have proved already , and i doubt not but the latter will be as evident as the other , before our task be ended . but , as though it were not possible for you to be guilty of begging the question , after you have said that the roman church cannot erre , you give this as the reason for it , because she is the unshaken rock of truth ; and that she hath the sole continual succession of lawfully-sent pastors and teachers , who have taught the same unchanged doctrine , and shall infallibly continue so teaching it to the worlds end . now , who dares call this , begging the question ? no , it must not be called so in you , it shall be only taking it for granted . which we have seen , hath been your practice all along , especially when we charge your church with errour● ; for then you cry out presently , what , your church erre ? no , you defie the language . what , the spouse of christ , the catholick church erre ? that is impossible . what , the unshaken rock of truth to sink into errours ? the infallible church be deceived ? she that hath never taught any thing but truth , be charged with falshood ? she , that not only never did erre , but , it is impossible , nay , utterly impossible , nay , so impossible , that it cannot be imagined , that ever she should erre ? this is the summ of all your arguments , which , no doubt , sound high to all such who know not what confident begging the question means , or , out of modesty , are loath to charge you with it . much to the same purpose do you go on , to prove , that protestants have separated not from the errours , but the essence of your church . and if that be true , which you say , that those things which we call errours are essential to your church , we are the more sorry for it ; for we are sure , ( and , when you please , will prove it ) that they are not , cannot be , essential to a true church ; and if they be to yours , the case is so much the worse with you , when your distempers are in your vitals , and your errours essential to your churches constitution . what other things you have here , are the bare repetitions of what we have often had before in the chapters you refer us to . and here we may thank you for some ease you give us in the far greatest remaining part of this chapter , which consists of tedious repetitions of such things which have been largely discussed in the first part , where they were purposely and designedly handled ; as that concerning traditions , chap. . that concerning necessaries to salvation , chap. , , . that concerning the scriptures being an infallible rule , throughout the controversie of resolution of faith ; and that which concerns the infallibility of general councils , we shall have occasion at large to handle afterwards ; and if there be any thing material here , which you omit there , it shall be fully considered . but i know no obligation lying upon me to answer things as often as you repeat them , especially since your gift is so good that way . it is sufficient that i know not of any material passage , which hath not received an answer in its proper place . that which is most pertinent to our present purpose , is that which concerns the necessity of a living judge , besides the scriptures for ending controversies of faith. as to which his lordship saith , that , supposing there were such a one , and the pope were he , yet that is not sufficient against the malice of the devil , and impious men , to keep the church at all times from renting even in the doctrine of faith , or to soder the rents which are made . for , oportet esse haereses , cor. . , heresies there will be , and heresies there properly cannot be but in the doctrine of faith. to this you answer , that heresies are not within , but without the church , and the rents which stand in need of sodering , are not found among the true members of the church , who continue still united in the faith , and due obedience to their head ; but in those who have deserted the true church , and either made or adhered to schismatical and heretical congregations . a most excellent answer ! his lordship sayes , if christ had appointed an infallible judge besides the scripture , certainly it should have been for preventing heresies , and sodering the rents of the church . so it is ( say you ) for if there be any heresies , it is nothing to him , they are out of the church ; and if there be any schisms , they are among those who are divided from him : that is , he is an infallible judge only thus far , in condemning all such for hereticks and schismaticks , who do not own him . and his only way of preventing heresies and schisms , is the making this the only tryal of them , that whatever questions his authority , is heresie ; and whatever separation be made from him , is schism . just as absalom pretended that there was no judge appointed to hear and determine causes , and that the laws were not sufficient without one , and therefore he would do it himself ; so doth the pope by christ , he pretends that he hath not taken care sufficient for deciding controversies in faith , therefore there is a necessity in order to the churches vnity , he should take it upon himself . but now , if we suppose in the former case of absalom , that he had pretended he could infallibly end all the controversies in israel , and keep all in peace and unity ; and yet abundance of controversies to arise among them by what right and power he took that office upon him , and many of them cry out upon it , as an vsurpation , and a disparagement to the laws and government of his father david ; and upon this , some of the wiser israelites should have asked him , whether this were the way to end all controversies , and keep the nation in peace ? would it not have been a satisfactory answer for him to have said , yes , no doubt it is the only way ; for , only they that acknowledge my power , are the kings lawful subjects , and all the rest are rebels and traytors . and , is not this just the same answer which you give here ? that the pope is still appointed to keep peace and unity in the church , because all that question his authority , be hereticks and schismaticks . but , as in the former case , the surest way to prevent those consequences , were to produce that power and authority which the king had given him , and that should be the first thing which should be made evident from authentick records , and the clear testimony of the gravest senatours ; so , if you could produce the letters pattents , whereby christ made the pope the great lord chancellour of his church , to determine all controversies of faith , and shew this attested by the concurrent voice of the primitive church , who best knew what order christ took for the government of his church ; this were a way to prevent such persons turning such hereticks and schismaticks , as you say they are , by not submitting themselves to the popes authority . but for you to pretend that the popes authority is necessary to the churches vnity , and when the heresies and schisms of the church are objected , to say , that those are all out of the church , is just as if a shepherd should say , that he would keep the whole flock of sheep within such a fold , and when the better half are shewed him to be out of it , he should return this answer , that those were without , and not within his fold ; and therefore they were none of the flock that he meant . so that his meaning was , those that would abide in , he could keep in , but for those that would not , he had nothing to say to them . so it is with you , the pope he ends controversies , and keeps the church at vnity ; how so ? they who do agree , are of his flock , and of the church ; and those that do not , are out of it . a quaker or anabaptist will keep the church in vnity after the same way , only the pope hath the greater number of his side ; for , they will tell you , if they were hearkned to , the church should never be in pieces ; for all those who embrace their doctrines , are of the church , and those who do not , are hereticks and schismaticks . so we see upon your principles , what an easie matter it is to be an infallible judge , and to end all controversies in the church ; that only this must be taken for granted , that all who will not own such an infallible judge , are out of the church , and so the church is at vnity still , how many soever there are who doubt or deny the popes authority . thus we easily understand what that excellent harmony is , which you cry so much up in your church ; that you most gravely say , that , had not the pope received from god the power he challenges , he could never have been able to preserve that peace and unity in matters of religion , that is found in the roman church : of what nature that unity is , we have seen already : and surely you have much cause to boast of the popes faculty of deciding controversies , ever since the late decree of pope innocent , in the case of the five propositions . for , how readily the jansenists have submitted since , and what unity there hath been among the dissenting parties in france , all the world can bear you witness . and , whatever you pretend , were it not for policy and interest , the infallible chair would soon fall to the ground ; for it hath so little footing in scripture or antiquity , that there had need be a watchful eye , and strong hand to keep it up . but now we are to examine the main proof which is brought for the necessity of this living and infallible judge ; which lyes in these words of a.c. every earthly kingdom , when matters cannot be composed by a parliament ( which cannot be called upon all occasions ) hath , besides the law-books , some living magistrates and judges , and above all one visible king , the highest judge , who hath authority sufficient to end all controversies , and settle vnity in all temporal affairs . and , shall we think that christ , the wisest king , hath provided in his kingdom the church , only the law-books of holy scripture , and no living visible judges , and above all one chief , so assisted by his spirit , as may suffice to end all controversies for vnity and certainty of faith ? which can never be , if every man may interpret holy scripture , the law-books , as he list . this his lordship saith , is a very plausible argument with the many ; but the foundation of it is but a similitude , and , if the similitude hold not in the main argument , is nothing . and so his lordship at large proves that it is here . for whatever further concerns this controversie concerning the popes authority , is brought under the examination of this argument ; which you mangle into several chapters , thereby confounding the reader , that he may not see the coherence or dependence of one thing upon another . but having cut off the superfluities of this chapter already , i may with more conveniency reduce all that belongs to this matter within the compass of it . and that he may the better apprehend his lordships scope and design . i shall first summ up his lordships answers together , and then more particularly go about the vindication of them . . then , his lordship at large proves that the militant church is not properly a monarchy , and therefore the foundation of the similitude is destroyed . . that supposing it a kingdom , yet the church militant is spread in many earthly kingdoms , and cannot well be ordered like one particular kingdom . . that the church of england under one supreme governour , our gracious soveraign , hath , besides the law-book of the scripture , visible magistrates and judges , arch-bishops and bishops to govern the church in truth and peace . . that as in particular kingdoms there are some affairs of greatest consequence as concerning the statute laws , which cannot be determined but in parliament ; so in the church , the making such canons which must bind all christians , must belong to a free and lawful general council . thus i have laid together the substance of his lordships answer , that the dependence and connexion of things may be better perceived by the intelligent reader . we come now therefore to the first answer . as to which his lordship saith , it is not certain that the whole church militant is a kingdom ; for they are no mean ones which think , our saviour christ left the church-militant in the hands of the apostles , and their successours , in an aristocratical , or rather a mixt government ; and that the church is not monarchical , otherwise than the triumphant and militant make one body under christ the head. and in this sense indeed , and in this only the church is a most absolute kingdom . and the very expressing of this sense , is a full answer to all the places of scripture , and other arguments brought by bellarmine to prove that the church is a monarchy . but the church being as large as the world , christ thought fittest to govern it aristocratically , by divers , rather than by one vice-roy . and i believe , saith he , this is true . for so it was governed for the first three hundred years , and somewhat better ; the bishops of those times carrying the whole business of admitting any new consecrated bishops or others to , or rejecting them from , their communion . and this , his lordship saith , he hath carefully examined for the first six hundred years even to , and within , the time of s. gregory the great . now to this you answer . . that though a. c. urgeth the argument in a similitude of a kingdom only , yet it is of force in any other kind of settled government , as in a common-wealth . but by this a. c. seems a great deal the wiser man , for he knew what he did when he instanced in in a kingdom ; for he foresaw that this only would tend to his purpose concerning the popes supremacy ; but though there be the same necessity of some supreme power in a common-wealth , yet that would do him no good at all , for all that could be inferred thence , would be the necessity of a general council . and by this you may see , how little your similitude will hold any other way than a.c. put it . therefore , . you answer , that the government of the church is not a pure , but a mixt monarchy , i. e. the supream government of the church is clearly monarchical , you confess : yet bishops within their respective dioceses and jurisdictions are spiritual princes also , that is , chief pastors and governours of such a part of the church in their own right . how far this latter is consonant to your principles , i have already examined , but the former is that we dispute now , concerning the supreme government of the church , whether that be monarchical or no , and this is that which his lordship denies ; and , for all that i see , we may continue to do so too , for any argument you bring to the contrary . although you produce your achilles in the next paragraph , viz. that since the government of one in chief , is by all philosophers acknowledged for the most perfect , what wonder is it that christ our saviour thought it fitter to govern the church by one vice-roy , than aristocratically , or by many , as he would have it ? but , are you sure christ asked the philosophers opinions , in establishing a government in the church ? the philosophers judged truly that of all forms of civil government , monarchy was the best , i. e. most conducing to the ends of civil government : for the excellency of such things must be measured by their respect to the ends . now , if we apply this to the church , we must not measure it by such ends , as we fancy to our selves , or such as are only the ends of meer civil societies ; but all must be considered with a respect to the chief design of him who first instituted a church . and from thence we must draw our inferences , as to what may tend most to the peace and vnity of it . now it appearing to be the great design of christ , that mankind should be brought to eternal happiness , we cannot argue from hence , as to the necessity of any manner of government , unless one of them hath in it self a greater tendency to this than another hath . for in civil governments , the whole design of the society , is the civil peace of it ; but it is otherwise in the church , the main end of it , is to order things with the greatest conveniency for a future life : now this being the main end of this society , and no manner of government having in it self a greater tendency to this than other : it was in the power of the legislator , to appoint what government he pleased himself . but when we consider that he intended this church of his should be spread all over the world , and this to be his immediate errand he sent his apostles upon , to preach to every creature , and to plant churches in the most remote and distant places from each other ; we can have the least ground to fancy he should appoint an vniversal monarchy in his church of any government whatsoever . for if we will take that boldness you put us upon , to enquire , what form is fittest for a society dispersed into all parts of the world , and that are not bound , upon their being christians , to live nearer rome , than mexico or japan , ; could any one imagine it would be , to appoint one vice-roy to superintend his church at such a place as rome is ? suppose all the east and west-indies consisted of christian churches , what advantage , in order to the government of those churches , could the popes authority be ? what heresies and schisms might be among them before his holiness could be acquainted with them ? these are therefore very slender and narrow conceptions concerning christs institution of a government over his catholick church , as though he should only have regard to these few adjacent parts of europe , without any respect to the good of the whole church . but since we see , christ designed such a church which might be in most remote and distant places from each other , and yet at such a distance might equally promote the main ends , wherefore they became churches , it is very unreasonable to think he should appoint one vice-roy to be head over them all . for which , let us suppose , that europe might be ( as the eastern churches have been ) over-run with the turkish power , and only some few suffering christians left here , and the pope much in the same condition with the patriarch of constantinople : but on the other side , that christianity should largely spread it self in china , and the east indies , and the christian church flourish in america , could any philosopher think that fixing a monarchy at rome , or elsewhere , were the best way to govern the catholick church , which consists of all these christian societies ? for that is certainly the best government which is suited to all conditions of that society , which it is intended for ; now it is apparent the christian church was intended to be so catholick , that no one vice-roy can be supposed able to look to the government of it . if christ had intended meerly such a church which should have consisted of such persons which lay here near about rome , and no others , the supposition of such a monarchy in the church would not have been altogether so incongruous ( though liable to very many inconveniencies : ) but when he intended his religion for the universal good of the world , and that in all parts of it , without obliging them to live near each other , it is one of the most unreasonable suppositions in the world , that he should set up a monarchical government over his catholich church in such a place as rome is . but now , if we suppose only an aristocratical government in the church under christ as the alone supreme head ; nothing can be more suitable to the nature of the church , or the large extent of it , than that is . for where-ever a church is , there may be bishops to govern it , and other officers of the church to over-see the lesser parts of it , and all joyn to promote the peace and unity of it , which they may with the more ease do , if no one challenge to be supreme head , to whom belongs the chief care of the church . for by this means they cannot with that power and authority redress abuses , and preserve the churches purity and peace , which otherwise they might have done . so that considering barely the nature of things , nothing seems more repugnant to the end for which christ instituted a catholick church , than such a monarchy as you imagine ; and nothing more suitable than an aristocracy ; considering that christian churches may be much dispersed abroad , and that where they are , they are incorporated into that civil society in which they live ( according to the known saying of optatus , ecclesia est in republicâ , &c. ) and therefore such a monarchy would be unsuitable to the civil governments in which those churches may be . for it were easie to demonstrate , that such a monarchy as you challenge in the church , is the most inconvenient government for it , take the church in what way , or sense you please ; whether , as to its own peace and order , or to its spreading into other churches , or to the respect it must have to the civil government it lives under . and , if we would more largely enquire into these things , we might easily find , that those which you look on as the great ends , wherefore christ should institute such a monarchical government in his church , are things unsuitable to the nature of a christian church ; and which christ , as far as we can judge , did never intend to take care , that they should never be : which are , freedom from all kind of controversies , and absolute submission of judgement to the decrees of an infallible judge . we no where find such a state of a christian church described or promised , where men shall all be of one mind ( only that peace and brotherly love be continued , is that , all christians are bound to ) ; much less certainly , that this vnity should be by a submission of our understandings to an infallible judge , of whom we read nothing in that book which perswades us to be christians : and without which freedom of our understandings ( which this pretended infallibility would deprive us of ) we could never have been judicious and rational christians . but granting that wise men have thought monarchy the best government in it self ; what is this to the proving , what government christ hath appointed in his church ? for that is the best government for the church , not which philosophers and politicians have thought best , but which our saviour hath appointed in his word . for he certainly knew best , what would suit with the conveniencies of his church . and these are bold and insolent disputes , wherein those of your side argue , that christ must have instituted a monarchy in his church , because all philosophers have judged that the most perfect government . i need not tell you what these speeches imply christ to be , if he doth not follow the philosophers judgement . will you give him leave to judge what is fittest for his church himself ? or do you think he hath not wisdom enough to do it , unless the philosophers instruct him ? let us therefore appeal to his laws to see what government he hath there appointed . and now i shall deal more closely with you . you tell me , therein christ hath appointed this monarchical government . but i may be nearer your mind , when you will answer me these following questions . when , and where did any wise legislator appoint a matter of so vast concernment to the good of the society , as the supreme government of it , and express no more of it in his laws , than christ hath done of this monarchical government of the church ? is there not particular care taken in all laws about that , to express the rights of soveraignty , to hinder vsurpations , to bind all to obedience , to determine the way of succession by descent or election ? and hath christ instituted a monarchy in his church and said nothing of all these things ? when the utmost you can pretend to , are some ambiguous places , which you must have the power of interpreting your selves , or they signifie nothing to your purpose . so that none of the fathers , or the primitive church for several centuries , could find out such mysteries in super hanc petram , dabo tibi claves , and pasce oves , as you have done . if such a monarchy had been appointed in the church , what should we have had more frequent mention of in the records of the church , than of this ? where do we meet with any histories that write the affairs of kingdoms for some hundred of years , and never mention any royal acts of the kings of them ? if st. peters being at rome had setled the monarchy of the church there , what more famous act could have been mentioned in all antiquity then that ? what notice would have been taken by other churches of him whom he had left his successour ? what addresses would have been made to him by the bishops of other churches ? what testimonies of obedience and submission ; what appeals and resort thither ? and it is wonderful strange that the histories of the church should be silent in these grand affairs , when they report many minute things even during the hottest times of persecution . did the christians conspire together in those times not to let their posterity know , who had the supream government of the church then ? or were they afraid the heathen emperours should be jealous of the popes , if they had understood their great authority ? but then methinks they should have carried it however among themselves with all reverence and submission to the pope , and not openly oppose him assoon as ever he began to exercise any authority , as in the case of victor and the asian bishops . but of all things , it seems most strange and unaccountable to me , that christ should have instituted such a monarchy in his church , and none of the apostles mention any thing of it in any of the epistles which they writ , in which are several things concerning the peace and government of the church : nay , when there were schisms and divisions in the church , and that on the account of their teachers , among whom cephas was one ( by that very name on which christ said he would build his church ) and yet no mention of respect more to him , then to any other : no intimation of what power st. peter had for the government of the church , as the head and monarch of it : no references at all made to him by any of the divided parties of the church at that time : no mention at all of any such power given him in the epistles written by him , but he writes just as any other apostle did , with great expressions of humility ; and , as if he foresaw what vsurpations would be in the church , he forbids any lording it over gods heritage , and calls christ the chief pastour of the church . and this he doth in an epistle not writ to the catholick church , which had been most proper for him if head of the church , but only to the dispersed jews in some particular provinces . can any one then imagine he should be monarch of the church , and no act of his , as such , recorded at all of him ; but carrying himself with all humility , not fixing himself as head of the church in any chair , but going up and down from one place to another , as the rest of the apostles for promoting the gospel of christ ? to conclude all ; is it possible to conceive there should be a monarch appointed by christ in the church , and yet the apostle when he reckons up those offices which christ had set in the church , speak not one word of him : he mentions apostles , prophets , evangelists , pastours and teachers ; but the chief of all is omitted , and he to whom the care of all the rest is committed ; and in whose authority the welfare , peace , and unity of the church is secured . these things to me seem so incredible , that till you have satisfied my mind in these questions , i must needs judge this pretended monarchy in the church to be one of the greatest figments ever were in the christian world . and thus i have at large considered your argument from reason , why there should be such a monarchy in the church ; which i have the rather done , because it is one of the great things in dispute between us , and because the most plausible argument brought for it , is , the necessity of it in order to the churches peace , which monarchy being the best of governments would the most tend to promote . to return now to his lordship . he brings an evidence out of antiquity against the acknowledgement of any such monarchy in the church from the literae communicatoriae which certified from one great patriarch to another , who were fit or unfit to be admitted to their communion , upon any occasion of repairing from one see to another . and these were sent mutually , and as freely in the same manner from rome to the other patriarchs , as from them to it . out of which ( saith his lordship ) i think this will follow most directly , that the church-government then was aristocratical . for had the bishop of rome been then accounted sole monarch of the church , and been put into the definition of the church ( as he is now by bellarmin ) all these communicatory letters should have been directed from him to the rest , as whose admittance ought to be a rule for all to communicate ; but not from others to him , at least not in that even equal brotherly way , as now they appear to be written . for it is no way probable the bishops of rome , which even then sought their own greatness too much , would have submitted to the other patriarchs voluntarily , had not the very course of the church put it upon them . to this you answer , that these literae communicatoriae do rather prove our assertion , being ordained by sixtus , in favour of such bishops as were called to rome , or otherwise forced to repair thither ; to the end they might without scruple , be received into their own diocese at their return : having also decreed , that without such letters communicatory , none in such case should be admitted . but that these letters should be sent from other bishops to rome in such an even , equal , and brotherly way , you say , is one of his lordships chimaera's . but this difference , or inequality you pretend to be in them ; that those to the pope were meerly testimonial ; those from him were mandatory , witness ( say you ) the case of st. athanasius and other bishops restored by the popes communicatory letters . but supposing them equal , you say , it only shewed the popes humility ; and ought to be no prejudice to his just authority , and his right and power to do otherwise if he saw cause . but all this depends upon a meer fiction , viz. that these communicatory letters were ordained by sixtus , in favour of such bishops as were called to rome , than which nothing can be more improbable . but i do not say , that this is a chimaera of your own brains , for you follow baronius in it : for which he produceth no other evidence , but the authour of the lives of the popes : but binius adds that which seems to have been the first ground of it , which is the second decretal epistle of sixtus , in which that decree is extant : but whosoever considers the notorious forgery of those decretal epistles ( as will be more manifested where you contend for them ) on which account they are slighted by card. perron , and in many places by baronius himself , will find little cause to triumph in this epistle of sixtus . and whoever reflects on the state of those times in which sixtus lived , will find it improbable enough , that the pope should take to himself so much authority to summon bishops to him , and to order that none should be admitted without communicatory letters from him . it is not here a place to enquire into the several sorts of those letters which passed among the bishops of the primitive church , whether the canonical , pacifical , ecclesiastical , and communicatory , were all one ; and what difference there was between the communicatory letters granted to travellers , in order to their communion with forrain churches , and those letters which were sent from one patriarch to another . but this is sufficiently evident , that those letters which were the tessera hospitalitatis , as tertullian calls it , the pass-port for communion in forrain churches , had no more respect to the bishop of rome , than to any other catholick bishop . therefore the council of antioch passeth two canons concerning them ; one , that no traveller should be received without them ; another , that none but bishops should give them . and that all bishops did equally grant them to all places , appears by that passage in st. austin , in his epistle to eusebius and the other donatists , relating the conference he had with fortunius a bishop of that party ; wherein st. austin asked him , whether he could give communicatory letters whither he pleased ? for by that means it might be easily determined whether he had communion with the whole catholick church , or no. from whence it follows , that any catholick bishop might without any respect to the bishop of rome grant communicatory letters to all forrain churches . and the enjoying of that communion which was consequent upon these letters , is all that optatus means in that known saying of his , that they had communion with siricius at rome , commercio formatarum , by the use of these communicatory letters . but besides these , there were other letters , which every patriarch sent to the rest upon his first installment , which were call'd their synodical epistles , and these contained the profession of their faith ; and the answers to them did denote their communion with them . since therefore these were sent to all the patriarchs indifferently , and not barely to the bishop of rome ; there appears no difference at all in the letters sent to or from him and the other patriarchs on this occasion . as for your instance of the popes restoring athanasius , i have sufficiently answered it already ; and if the popes letter were never so mandatory ( as it was not ) yet we see it took no effect among the eastern bishops : and therefore they were of his lordships mind , that the government of the church was not monarchical , but aristocratical . i did expect here to have met with the pretended epistle of atticus of constantinople about the manner of making formed letters , wherein one Π is said to be for the honour of st. peter ; but since you pass it over , on this occasion , i hope you are convinced of the forgery of it . in the beginning of your next chapter ( which because of the coherence of the matter i handle with this ) you find great fault with his lordship for a marginal citation out of gerson , because he supposeth that gersons judgement , was , that the church might continue without a monarchical head , because he writ a tract de auferibilitate papae ; whereas , you say , gersons drift is only to shew how many several waies the pope may be taken away , that is , deprived of his office , and cease to be pope as to his own person , so that the church , pro tempore , till another be chosen shall be without her visible head. but although the truth of what his lordship proves , doth not at all depend upon this testimony of gerson , which was only a marginal citation ; yet since you so boldly accuse him for a false allegation , we must further examine how pertinent this testimony is to that which his lordship brought it for . the sentence to which this citation of gerson refers , is this . for they are no mean ones , who think our saviour christ left the church-militant in the hands of the apostles , and their successours , in an aristocratical , or rather a mixt government ; and that the church is not monarchical , otherwise than the triumphant and militant make one body under christ the head. over against these words , that tract of gerson de auferibilitate papae is cited . if therefore so much be contained in that book as makes good this , which his lordship sayes ; he is not so much guilty of false alledging gerson , as you are of falsly accusing him . to make this clear , we must consider what gersons design was in writing that book , and what his opinion therein is concerning the churches government . it is well known , that his book was written upon the occasion of the council of constance in the time of the great schism between the three popes ; and that the design of it , is , to make it appear that it was in the power of the council to depose the popes , and suspend them from all jurisdiction in the church . therefore , he saith , that the pope may not only lose his office by voluntary cession ; but that in many cases he may be deprived by the church , or by a general council representing the church , whether he consent to it or no : nay , in the next consideration , he saith , that he may be deprived by a general council which is celebrated without his consent or against his will ; and , in the following consideration adds , that this may be done not only declaratively , but juridically : the question now comes to this , whether a person who asserts these things , doth believe the government of the militant church to be monarchical , and not rather aristocratical and mixt government ? and i dare appeal to any mans reason , whether that may be accounted a monarchical government , where he that is supream may be deposed and deprived of his office in a juridical manner , by a senate that hath authority to do these things ? for it is apparent , the supream power lyes in the senate and not the prince , and that the prince is only a ministerial head under them . and this is plainly gersons opinion as to the church ; although therefore he may allow the supream ministerial authority to be in the pope , ( which is all your citations prove ) yet the radical and intrinsecal power lyes in the church , which being represented in a general council , may depose the pope from his authority in the church . and the truth is , this opinion of gerson makes the fundamental power of the church to be democratical , and that the supream exercise is by representatives in a general council , and that the pope at the highest , is , but a ministerial and accountable head. and therefore spalatensis truly observes , that this opinion of gerson ( which is the same with that of the paris divines , of which he speaks ) doth only in words attribute supream ecclesiastical jurisdiction to the pope , but in reality it takes it quite away from him . and this is the same doctrine which then prevailed in the council of constance , and afterwards at basil , as may be seen at large in their synodical epistle , defended by richerius , vigorius , and others . now let any man of reason judge , whether , notwithstanding your charge of false citation , ( from some expressions intimating only a ministerial headship ) his lordship did not very pertinently cite this tract of gersons , to prove that no mean persons did think the church militant , not to be governed by a monarchical , but by an aristocratical or mixt government ? but no sooner is this marginal citation cleared , but the charge is renewed about another , viz. st. hierom ; yet here you dare not charge his lordship with a false allegation , but you are put to your shifts to get off this testimony as well as you can . for , st. hierom saying expresly in his epistle to evagrius , vbicunque fuerit episcopus , sive romae , sive eugubii , sive constantinopoli , sive rhegii , &c. ejusdem meriti est , ejusdem est & sacerdotii ; his lordship might well inferr , that doubtless he thought not of the roman bishops monarchy . for what bishop , saith he , is of the same merit or the same degree in the priesthood with the pope , as things are now carried at rome ? to this you answer , that he speaks not of the pope , as he is pope , or in respect of that eminent authority , which belongs to him as st. peters successour , but only compares him with another private bishop , in respect of meer character or power of a bishop , as bishop only . but though this be all which any of your party ever since the reformation have been able to answer to this place ; yet nothing looks more like a meer shift than this doth . for had st. hierom only compared these bishops together in regard of their order , was not sacerdotium enough to express that by ; if st. hierom had said only , that all bishops are ejusdem sacerdotii , there might have been some plausible pretence for this distinction ; but when he adds ejusdem meriti too , he wholly precludes the possibility of your evading that way . for , what doth merit here stand for as distinct from priesthood , if it imports not something besides what belongs to bishops as bishops ? what can merit here signifie , but some greater power , authority , and jurisdiction given by christ to one bishop above another . st. hierom was not so sensless , as not to see that the bishops of rome , constantinople , and alexandria , had greater authority , and larger jurisdiction in the church , then the petty bishops of eugubium , rhegium , and tanis ; but all this he knew well enough came by the custom of the church , that one bishop should have larger power in the church then another . but ( saith he ) if you come to urge us with what ought to be practised in the church , then , saith he , orbis major est urbe , it is no one city , as that of rome ( which he particularly instanceth in ) which can prescribe to the whole world ; for ( saith he ) all bishops are of equal merit , and the same priesthood wheresoever they are , whether at rome or elsewhere . so that it is plain to all , but such as wilfully blind themselves , that st. hierom speaks not of that , which you call , the character of bishops , but of the authority of them ; for that very word he useth immediately before , si authoritas quaeritur , orbis major est urbe . and where do you ever find merit applyed to the bishops character ? they who say , it is understood of the merit of good life make st. hierom speak non-sense . for are all bishops of the same merit of good life ? but we need not go out of rome for the proper importance of merit here . for in the third roman synod under symmachus , that very word is used concerning authority and principality in the church ; ejus sedi primum petri apostoli meritum sive principatus , deinde conciliorum venerandorum authoritas , &c. where binius confesseth an account is given of the supremacy of the bishop of rome , the first ground of which st. peters merit or principality ; apply now but this sense to s. hierom , and he may be very easily understood , all bishops are ejusdem meriti sive principatus , of the same merit , dignity or authority in the church . but you say , he speaks not of the pope , as he is pope : good reason for it , for st. hierom knew no such supremacy in the pope , as he now challengeth . and can you think , if st. hierom had believed such an authority in the pope as you do , he would ever have used such words as these are , to compare him with the poor bishop of agobio in merit and priesthood . i cannot perswade my self you can think so , only something must be said for the cause you have undertaken to defend . and since , bellarmine , and such great men , had gone before you , you could not believe there were any absurdity in saying as they did . still you say , he doth not speak of that authority which belongs to the bishop of rome , as s. peter 's successor . but if you would but read a little further , you might see that s. hierom speaks of all bishops , whether at rome , or eugubium , &c. as equally the apostles successors : for , it is neither ( saith he ) riches or poverty which makes bishops higher or lower . caeterùm omnes apostolorum successores sunt ; but they are all the apostles successors ; therefore he speaks of them with relation to that authority which they derived from the apostles . and never had there been greater necessity for him to speak of the popes succeeding s. peter in the supremacy over the church than here , if he had known any such thing , but he must be excused , he was ignorant of it . no , that he could not be ( say you again ) for he speaks of it elsewhere , and therefore he must be so understood there , as that he neither contradict nor condemn himself . but if the epistle to damasus be all your evidence for it , a sufficient account hath been given of that already : therefore you add more , and bid us go find them out , to see , whether they make for the purpose or no. i am sure your first doth not out of his commentary on the . psalm , because it only speaks of s. peters being head of the church , and not of the the popes , and that may import only dignity and preheminence , without authority and jurisdiction : besides , that commentary on the psalms is rejected as spurious by erasmus , sixtus senensis , and many others among your selves . your second , ad demetriadem virginem , is much less to your purpose ; for that only speaks of innocentius coming after anastasius at rome , qui apostolicae cathedrae & supradicti viri successor & filius est , who succeeded him in the apostolical chair ; but , do you not know that there were many apostolical chairs besides that of rome , and had every one of them supreme authority over the church of god ? what , that should be on the . of s. matthew , i cannot imagine , unless it be that s. peter is called princeps apostolorum , which honour we deny him not , or that he saith , aedificabo ec●lesiam meam super te : but how these things concern the popes authority , unless you had further enlightened us , i cannot understand . that ep . . ad marcellam , is of the same nature with the last , for the words which i suppose you mean , are , petrus super quem dominus funda●it ecclesiam ; and if you see , what erasmus saith upon that place , you will have little cause to boast much of it . your last place is , l. . cont. lucifer ; which i suppose to be that commonly cited thence ; ecclesiae salus in summi sacerdotis dignitate pendet ; but there even marianus victorius will tell you , it is understood of every ordinary bishop , thus i have taken the pains to search those places you nakedly refer us to in s. hierom , and find him far enough from the least danger of contradicting or condemning himself , as to any thing which is here spoken by him . so that we see s. hierom remains a sufficient testimony against the popes monarchical government of the church . his lordship further argues against this monarchy in the church from the great and undoubted rule given by optatus ; that wheresoever there is a church , there the church is in the common-wealth , and not the common-wealth in the church . and so also the church was in the roman empire . now from this ground ( saith his lordship ) i argue thus . if the church be within the empire , or other kingdom , 't is impossible the government of the church should be monarchical . for no emperour or king will endure another king within his dominion , that shall be greater than himself , since the very enduring it makes him that endures it upon the matter no monarch . your answer to this , is , that these two kingdoms are of different natures , the one spiritual , the other temporal : the one exercised only in such things as concern the worship of god , and the eternal salvation of souls ; the other in affairs that concern this world only . surely you would perswade us , we had never heard of much less read bellarmin's first book de pontifice , about the popes temporal power , which was fain to get license for the other four to pass at rome ; and although he minces the matter as much as may be , and much more than baronius and others did , who pleaded downright for the popes temporal power ; yet he must be a very weak prince , who doth not see how far that indirect and reductive power , may extend , when the pope himself is to be judge , what comes under it , and what not . and , what may not come under it , when deposing of princes shall be reduced under that you call the worship of god ? and absolving subjects from their obedience , tend to promote their eternal salvation ? but if the pope may be judge , what temporal things are in ordine ad spiritualia , and bring them under his power in that respect , why may not the prince be judge what spiritual things are in ordine ad temporalia , and use his power over them in that respect too ? but in the mean time , is not a kingdom like to be at peace then ? if the pope challenged no other authority but what christ or the apostles had , his government might be admitted , as well as that authority which they had ; but , what do you think of us the mean while , when you would perswade us , that the popes power is no other than what christ or the apostles had ? you must certainly think us such persons as the moon hath wrought particularly upon , as you after very civilly speak concerning his lordship . your instance from the kings of france and spain , his lordship had sufficiently answered , by telling you , that he that is not blind may see if he will , of what little value the popes power is in those kingdoms , further than to serve their own turns of him , which they do to their great advantage . and when you would have this to be upon the account of faith and conscience , let the pope exercise his power apparently against their interest , and then see , on what account they profess obedience to him . but , as long as they can manage such pretences for their advantage , and admit so much of it , and no more , they may very well endure it , and his lordship be far enough from contradicting himself . when you would urge the same inconvenience against the aristocratical government of the church , you suppose that aristocratical government wholly independent on , and not subordinate to , the civil government ; whereas his lordship and the church of england assert the kings supremacy in government over all , both persons and causes ecclesiastical : and therefore this nothing concerns us . and if from what hath gone before , it must , as you say , remain therefore fully proved , that the external government of the church on earth is monarchical . it may for all that i see , remain as fully proved , that you are now the man who enjoy this monarchical power over the church . and whatever you stile the pope , whether the deputy , or vicar general of christ , or servus servorum , or what you will ; it is all one to us as long as we know his meaning , whatever fair words you give him . as though men would take it one jot the better to have one usurp and tyrannize over them , because he doth not call himself king or prince , but their humble servant . is it not by so much the greater tyranny ? to have such kind of ecclesiastical saturnalia , when the servus servorum must , under that name , tyrannize over the whole world ? we have already at large shewed , how destructive this pretended supremacy is to that government of the church by bishops , which , his lordship proves from the ancient canons and fathers of the church , doth of right belong to them , viz. from several canons of the councils of antioch and nice , and the testimonies of s. augustine and s. cyprian . to all this you only say , that you allow the bishops their portion in the government of christs flock : but it is but a very small portion of what belongs to them , if all their jurisdiction must be derived from the pope ; which i have shewed before to be the most current opinion in your church : and i dare say , you will not dispute the contrary . his lordship was well enough aware , to what purpose bellarmine acknowledged that the government of the church was ever in the bishops ; for he himself saith , it was to exclude temporal princes ; but then he desires a. c. to take notice of that , when secular princes are to be excluded , then it shall be pretended , that bishops have power to govern : but when it comes to sharing stakes between them and the pope , then hands off ; they have nothing to do any further than the pope gives them leave . what follows concerning the impossibility of a right executing of this monarchy in the church hath been already discussed of , and you answer nothing at all to it that hath any face of pertinency ; for when you say , it will hold as well against the aristocratical form , i have plainly enough shewed you the contrary . that which follows about the design of an vniversal monarchy in the state , as well as the church ; about pope innocent 's making the pope to be the sun , and the emperour the moon , the spanish friers two scutchions , campanella 's eclogue , since you will not stand to defend them , i shall willingly pass them over . but what concerns the supremacy of the civil power , is more to our purpose , and must be considered . his lordship therefore saith , that every soul was to be subject to the higher power , rom. . . and the higher power there mentioned , is the temporal . and the ancient fathers come in with a full consent , that every soul comprehends all without exception : all spiritual men , even to the highest bishop , even in spiritual causes too , so the foundations of faith and good manners be not shaken : and where they are shaken , there ought to be prayer and patience , there ought not to be opposition by force . nay , emperours and kings are custodes utriusque tabulae ; they to whom the custody and preservation of both tables of the law , for worship to god , and duty to man , are committed . a book of the law was by gods own command in moses his time , to be given to the king , deut. . . and the kings under the law , but still according to it , did proceed to necessary reformation in church-businesses ; and therein commanded the very priests themselves , as appears in the acts of hezekiah and josiah , who yet were never censured to this day for usurping the high-priests office . nay , and the greatest emperours for the churches honour , theodosius the elder , and justinian , and charls the great , and divers others , did not only meddle now and then , but enact laws to the great settlement and encrease of religion in their several times . now to this again , you answer , that the civil and spiritual are both absolute and independent powers , though each in their proper orb , the one in spirituals , the other in temporals . but , what is this to that which his lordship proves , that there can be no such absolute independent spiritual power ; both because all are bound to obey the civil power , and because the civil power hath a right to meddle in ecclesiastical matters ? and , though you express never so much honour to civil authority , yet still you limit it to the administration meerly of civil affairs ; and how far that is , is well enough known . you tell us plainly , that it doth not belong to the emperour to order the affairs of the church ; but why do you not answer the reasons and instances which his lordship brings to the contrary ? yet you yield , that in case of notorious and gross abuses , manifestly contrary to religion , and connived at by the pastors of the church , christian princes may lawfully and piously use their authority , in procuring the said abuses to be effectually redressed by the said pastors , as the examples of ezekias and josias prove . but in case the high-priest would not have yielded to such a reformation , might not those princes , by the assistance of other priests , have effected it ? this is the case you were to speak to : for whereas you fly out , and say , that princes may not take the priests office upon them . whom do you dispute against in that ? not his lordship certainly , nor any of the church of england , who never said they might , though they have been most injuriously calumniated , as though they did . that which we assert , is , that princes may enact laws concerning religion , and reform abuses in divine worship , but we do not say , they may take the pastoral office upon them ; and therefore you say no more in that than we do our selves . but when you say , they may not reform religion in the substance of it , i cannot well tell how to understand you . if you mean , not so reform religion , as to take away any of the substance , that is a reformation to purpose ; but if you bring it ad hypothesin , we utterly deny that any of the substance of religion was taken away upon our churches reformation : if you mean , not reform abuses which go under the name of the substance of religion , that will be to make the most unsufferable abuses the most incurable . but , when you add , that nothing must be enacted pertaining to religion by their own authority without , or contrary to the priests consent ( the high-priest , i suppose you mean ) shew us , where the kings of israel were bound , not to reform in case the high-priest did not consent : and if you could do this , you must prove such a high-priest now , and that princes are bound to wait his leisure for reforming abuses in religion , when his pretended authority is upheld by maintaining them . as for your commendations of pope hildebrand , and innocent the third , for very prudent men , and worthy champions of your church , we see , what prudence is with you , and what a worthy church you have . but it is still an excellent evasion , that they never endeavoured to subject the emperour to themselves in temporal matters ; no nor alexander the third neither , when he trod upon the emperours neck ? but the proceedings of these popes with the emperours , as likewise adrian . lucius . and others , are so gross , that it had been more for your interest with christian princes , to disown them , than to go about to palliate them with such frivolous distinctions , that his vnderstanding must be as blind as his obedience , that doth not see thorough them . you are much concerned , that his lordship should seem to give a lash to those mortified self-denying men , the jesuits , in bidding them leave their practising to advance the greatness of the pope and emperour ; for , who could believe they should deprive themselves of the riches and pleasures of the world upon such designs ? undoubtedly you are one of the number , for i never heard that any other order among you , did ever give them half so good words , but condemned them as much for their practising , as we do our selves . and , what holy men they are , and what excellent casuistical divinity about both the riches and pleasures of the world , if we did not otherwise know , the mysteries of jesuitism would sufficiently discover . to what his lordship saith further , that there is no necessity of one supreme living judge , to keep the church in peace and unity , but that the several bishops under their soveraign princes , are sufficient in order to it ; you only say , that he quotes occham for it . but , doth he nothing else but quote occham ? why do you not answer to the thing , and not barely to occham ? you have very good reason for it ; for you have little to say to the thing it self ; but for occham , you have enough to tell him in his ear . . that he is in the index of forbidden books ; a good testimony for the man's honesty . . that he sided with the emperour ; a crime beyond an index expurgatorius at rome . . that if there were such a government as occham supposes , all those governours must be infallible , or else there would be meer anarchy in the church : and , why not as well in the state , without infallibility there ? you say , for want of this infallibility , those countries where it is not acknowledged , are in schisms : and we say , the pretence of this infallibity hath caused the greatest of them . . you say , occham speaks only de possibili , of what might have been , if our saviour had pleased ; but occhamsayes , there is no necessity there should be one chief governour under christ , and we say , you can never prove that christ hath appointed that there shall be one ; and therefore this is more than disputing a bare possibility . but now , as though all your beggings the question had been arguments , all your sayings proofs , and all your proofs demonstrations , with as much authority as if you were in cathedrâ , you conculde ; remain it therefore a settled catholick principle , that the pope hath power over the whole church of god ; but you leave out something which should be at the end of it , among all those who can believe things as strongly without reason , as with it . and for the greater solemnity of the sentence you give it in the words of the oecumenical council at florence : and i must needs say , you have fitted them very well , for that was just as much an oecumenical council , as the pope is oecumenical pastor : but , that neither the one nor the other is so , i have sufficiently proved already . chap. viii . of the council of trent . the illegality of it manifested , first from the insufficiency of the rule it proceeded by , different from that of the first general councils , and from the popes presidency in it . the matter of right concerning it , discussed . in what cases superiours may be excepted against as parties . the pope justly excepted against as a party , and therefore ought not to be judge . the necessity of a reformation in the court of rome , acknowledged by roman catholicks . the matter of fact enquired into , as to the popes presidency in general councils . hosius did not preside in the nicene council as the popes legat. the pope had nothing to do in the second general council . two councils held at constantinople , within two years ; these strangely confounded . the mistake made evident . s. cyril not president in the third general council as the popes legat. no sufficient evidence of the popes presidency in following councils . the justness of the exception against the place , manifested ; and against the freedom of the council from the oath taken by the bishops to the pope . the form of that oath in the time of the council of trent . protestants not condemned by general councils . the greeks and others unjustly excluded as schismaticks . the exception from the small number of bishops cleared and vindicated . a general council in antiquity not so called from the popes general summons . in what sense a general council represents the whole church . the vast difference between the proceedings in the council of nice , and that at trent . the exception from the number of italian bishops , justified . how far the greek church and the patriarch hieremias may be said to condemn protestants ; with an account of the proceedings between them . having thus far considered the several grounds on which you lay the charge of schism upon us , and shewed at large the weakness ▪ and insufficiency of them , we should now have proceeded to the last part of our task , but that the great palladium of the present roman church , viz. the council of trent must be examined , to see whether it be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or no ; whether it came from heaven , or was only the contrivance of some cunning artificers . and the famous bishop of bitonto in the sermon made at the opening the council of trent , hath given us some ground to conjecture its original by his comparing it so ominously to the trojan-horse . although therefore that the pretences may be high and great , that it was made divina palladis arte , the spirit of god being said to be present in it , and concurring with it , yet they who search further will find as much of artifice in contriving , and deceit in the managing the one as the other . and although the cardinal palavicino uses all his art , to bring this similitude off , without reflecting on the honour of the council ; yet that bishop , who in that sermon pleaded so much , that the spirit of god would open the mouths of the council , as he did once those of balaam and caiaphas , was himself in this expression an illustrious instance of the truth of what he said . for he spake as true in this , as if he had been high-priest himself that year . but , as if you really believed your self the truth of that bishops doctrine , that whatever spirit was within them , yet being met in council , the spirit of god would infallibly inspire them , you set your self to a serious vindication of the proceedings of that council ; and not only so , but triumph in it , as that which will bring the cause to a speedy issue . and therefore we must particularly enquire into all the pretences you bring to justifie the lawfulness and freedom of that council ; but , to keep to the bishops metaphor , accipe nunc danaûm insidias ; & crimine ab uno disce omnes . and when we have thorowly searched this great engine of your church , we shall have little reason to believe , that ever it fell from heaven . his lordship then having spoken of the usefulness of free general councils , for making some laws which concern the whole church ; his adversary thinks presently to give him a choak-pear , by telling him , that the council of trent was a general council ; and that had already judged the protestants to hold errours . this you call , laying the axe to the root of the tree ; that tree , you mean , out of which the popes infallible chair was cut : for the management of this dispute about the council of trent , will redound very little to the honour of your church or cause . but you do well to add , that his lordship was not taken unprovided : for he truly answered , that the council of trent was neither a legal , nor a general council . both these we undertake to make good , in opposition to what you bring by way of answer to his lordships exceptions to them . that which we begin with , is , that it was not a legal council , which his lordship proves : first , because that council maintained publickly , that it is lawful for them to conclude any controversie , and make it to be de fide , and so in your judgement fundamental , though it have not a written word for its warrant ; nay , so much as a probable testimony from scripture . the force of his lordships argument i suppose lyes in this , that the decrees of that council cannot be such as should bind us to an assent to them ; because according to their own principles , those decrees may have no foundation in scripture : and that the only legal proceeding in general councils , is , to decree according to the scriptures . now to this you answer , that the meaning of the council , or catholick authours , is not , that the council may make whatever they please matter of faith , but only that which is expressed or involved in the word of god written or unwritten ; and this you confess , is defined by the council of trent , in these terms , that in matters of faith we are to rely not only upon scripture , but also on tradition : which doctrine ( you say ) is true , and that you have already proved it : and i may as well say , it is false , for i have already answered all your pretended proofs . but it is one thing , whether the doctrine be true or no ; and another , whether the council did proceed legally in defining things upon this principle . for upon your grounds you are bound to believe it true , because the council hath defined it to be so : but if you will undertake to justifie the proceedings of the council as legal , you must make it appear that this was the rule which general councils have alwaies acted by , in defining any thing to be matter of faith. but if this appear to be false ; and that you cannot instance in any true general council , which did look on this as a sufficient ground to proceed upon , then though the thing may , since that decree , be believed as true , yet that council did not proceed legally in defining upon such grounds . name us therefore , what council did ever offer to determine a matter of faith meerly upon tradition ? in the four first general councils it is well known , what authority was given to the scripture in their definitions ; and i hope you will not say , that any thing they defined , had no other ground but tradition . but suppose you could prove this , it is not enough for your purpose , unless you can make it appear , that those fathers in making such decrees , did acknowledge they had no ground in scripture for them . for if you should prove that really there was no foundation but tradition , yet all that you can inferr thence , is , that those fathers were deceived in judging they had other grounds , when they had not . but still , if they made scripture their rule , and looked on nothing else as a foundation for their definitions but the written word of god , then the council of trent did not proceed legally , in offering to define matters of faith , on such grounds which were not acknowledged by the primitive church , to be sufficient foundation for such definitions . cardinal cusanus at large gives an account of the method of proceeding in the ancient general councils , and therein tells us , not only that the word of god was placed in the middle among those who sate in council , but gives this as the only rule of their proceeding , quòd secundum testimonia scripturarum decrevit synodus ; that they decreed according to the testimonies of scripture . now if another council shall go according to a different rule from what the church hath esteemed the only true and adaequate foundation for definition of faith , that council breaks the inviolable laws of councils , and therefore its proceedings cannot be legal . as for instance ; supposing a parliament not to have power to make new laws , but to declare only what is law , and what not ( for that is all you pretend to , as to general councils ) and that all other former parliaments have all along professed this to be their rule , viz. that they search into the body of the laws ; and if any thing be controverted , whether it be a law or no , they make a diligent search into it , and examine all circumstances concerning it , for their own satisfaction , and according to the evidence they find of its being contained in this body of laws , they declare themselves : but many things growing much in use among a prevailing party , which have no colour of being in the written laws , but yet tend much to the interest of that party ; and these being opposed by such , who stand up for the ancient and known laws , the other are forced to make use of as good an expedient as they can , to preserve their interest and credit together . to which end they pack together a company of such , who are most concerned to maintain the things in question , and among these , the great innovator sits as president among them , and suffers none to come there , but such as are obliged by oath to speak nothing against his interest ; and these , when met together , seeing how unable they are to manage their business according to former precedents ; the first thing they do , is to declare , that customs and usages have as much the force of laws among them , as any contained in the body of them ; and having established this their rule , according to it they decree all the matters in difference , to be true and real laws . would any man say , that these men proceeded legally , who first make the foundation they are to go on , contrary to all former precedents , and then define according to that ? yet this , in all particulars , is exactly the case of the council of trent ; but the last part is that we are now about ; that they should , contrary to the proceedings of all general councils in matters of faith , first make their rule , and then bind all men to all those decrees which are made according to it . and therefore , though the council of trent may be thought to act wisely in advancing traditions to an equality with scripture in the first place , yet he must have a great deal of confidence and little judgement , who say's , that in decreeing matters of faith from tradition , it acted legally ; i. e. according to the rules of the undoubted general councils . i cannot therefore say , whether you have more of the one , or less of the other , when you tell us without offering to prove it , that the council did not proceed in a different manner , from other lawful general councils whil'st she grounded her definitions , partly on scripture , partly on tradition , even in matters not deducible by any particular or logical inference from scripture . the absurdity of which doctrine in it self , i have at large discovered already in our discourse of the resolution of faith , where it is shewed in what sense his lordship say's , that apostolical tradition is the word of god ; but that this was a legal way of proceeding in the council of trent , to define matters of faith by such traditions as have no ground in scripture , had need be better proved , than by your bare affirmation . and if that be a tradition too , i am sure it is one that is neither contained in , nor deducible from , the scripture . . his lordship justly excepts against the council of trent , from the popes sitting as president in it . for , saith he , is that council legal , where the pope the chief person to be reformed shall sit president in it , and be chief judge in his own cause against all law , divine , natural , and humane . to this you return an answer , both to the matter of right , and the matter of fact. to the matter of right , you say , that the pope not being justly accusable of any crime , but such as must involve , not only the council , but the whole church as well as himself , the protestants had no just cause to quarrel with the popes presiding in it . nay , that it is conformable to all law , divine , natural , and humane , that the head should preside over the members : and to give novellists liberty to decline the popes judgement , or the judgement of any other their lawful superiours upon pretence of their being parties , is in effect to exempt absolutely such people from all legal censure ; and to grant there is no sufficient means effectually to govern the church , or condemn heresie , schism , and other offences against religion . but is it not unanswerable on the other side , that this plea of yours makes it impossible , that the errours and corruptions of a church should be reformed , in case the governours of the church do abett and maintain them ? if you say , that it is not possible the governours of the church should do so , we have nothing but your bare word for it , and reason and experience manifest the contrary . in case then there be a vehement presumption at least , in a considerable party of the church , that the church is much degenerated and needs reformation , but those who call themselves the lawful superiours of the church utterly oppose it ; what is to be done in this case ? must the church continue as it did , meerly because the superiours make themselves parties ? nay , suppose that which you would call idolatry be in the church , and the pope and a council of his packing declare for it ; must there be no endeavours of a reformation , but by them who pronounce all hereticks who oppose them ? but you say , the head must preside over the members : an excellent argument to defend all usurpations both in church and state ; for doubtless , they who are in power will call themselves the heads of all others , if that will secure them from any danger . but this will exempt them from all legal censure : so will your principles , all governours of the church though guilty of heresie , blasphemy , idolatry , or what crime soever . for still , i hope , the head must be over the members ; and you say , it will bring the church to confusion , if any shall except against their superiours as parties . you must therefore absolutely and roundly assert , that it is impossible that the superiours in the church may be guilty of any errour or corruption ; or that , if they be , they must never be called to an account for it ; or else that it may be just in some cases to except against them as parties . and if in some cases , then the question comes to this , whether the present be some of those cases or no ? and here if you make those superiours judges again , what you granted before comes to nothing . this will be more clear by a parallel case : suppose the setting up the calves at dan and bethel had been done without such an open separation as that of jeroboam was , but that the people had sensibly declined from the worship of god at hierusalem , and had agreed to assemble at those places , the high-priest , and the priests and levites having deserted hierusalem , and approving this alteration of gods worship : but although this might continue for many years ; yet some of the inferiour priests and others of the people reading the book of the law , they find the worship of god much altered from what it ought to be , which they publish and declare to others , and bring many of the people to be of their mind ; but the high-priest and his clergy ( foreseeing how much it will be to their prejudice to bring things into their due order ) they resolutely oppose it . i pray tell me now , what were to be done in this case ? must the people stand wholly to the judgement of those superiour priests , who have declared themselves to be utterly averse from any reformation ? and if a council be called , is it reasonable or just , that he should sit as president in it , because he pretends to be the head over the members ? and that if superiours be once accused as parties , all order and peace is gone ? is there any way left or no , whereby the church of israel might be reformed ? yes , say you , by a general council ; but , must it be such a general council , wherein the high-priest sits as president , and all who sit with him sworn to do nothing against him ? is this a free and general council likely to reform these things ? and is it not all the justice in the world , that such a council should be truly free and general , and those freely heard who complain of these as great corruptions ? and that before the most equal and indifferent judges ; or , in case such cannot be assembled , that by the assistance of the civil power , the church may be reformed by its parts : so that still these parts be willing to give an account of what they do before any free and general council , where the main party accused sits not as president in it ? but what then , may you say ? will you allow all inferiours to proceed to a reformation , in case the superiours do not presently consent ? no : but men ought first to exhibit their complaints of abuses , and the reasons against them , to those who are actually the superiours of the church ; and that with all due reverence to authority ; but if , notwithstanding this , they declare themselves willful and obstinate in defence of those things , by the concurrence of the supream power they may lawfully and justly proceed to a reformation . well , ( but you say ) , all this comes not to your case , for the pope was not justly accusable of any crime ; for you deny not , but that other bishops in council may proceed against the pope himself , if the case do necessarily require it , as if he be a heretick . if you will then grant , that in some cases , as in that of heresie , the pope may be excepted against as a party , you destroy all that ever you say besides . for when the pope is accused for heresie in a council , who must sit as president in that council ? the pope himself , or not ? if the pope must sit as president , ( for the head , you say still , must be over the members ) do you think he will ever be condemned for heresie , if he hath the supream management of the council ? if he may not sit as president then , by the same reason he ought not to do it , when he is accused of errour or vsurpation ; but the other bishops of the church , met together by the assistance of christian princes in a free and general council , ought to be judges in that case , as well as the former . and this is no more then is agreeable to the doctrine and practise of the councils of constance and basil ; for if they had suffered the popes to have been presidents in them , or have had that power over them , which the popes had in the council of trent , do you think they could have done so to the present popes as they did ? but the popes were grown wiser afterwards ; they had these examples fresh in their memory , and therefore they were resolved never to be ridden by general councils more . and thence came that continual opposition to all proposals of the emperour for a general council , till necessity put the pope upon yielding to it : thence came the resolution at rome , not to venture any more councils in germany , for that place breathed too much freedome for the popes interest , though this were most vehemently desired by , both the emperour , and german princes and bishops : thence , when a council must be call'd , he summons it first at mantua , then at vicenza , and when none would come thither , at last he yields it should be at trent , a most inconvenient place for the germans to come to : when they were there , though all art possible was used to prevent the mention of any thing of reformation , yet sometimes some free words breaking out , troubled the legats , who dispatch notice of it to rome , and receive instructions what to do ; yet all could not prevent their fears and jealousies , lest something concerning the popes interest should be discussed ; upon which to make all sure they translate the council to bononia , and leave the emperour's bishops to blow their fingers at trent . and when upon the emperour and king of france's protestations , the pope saw a necessity of removing it back to trent again , though any fair pretence would have been taken to have dissolved the council ; yet since that could not be , the greatest care must be used to spin out the time , in hopes of some occurrence happening , which might give a plausible pretext for breaking it up . but to be sure nothing must pass , but what was privately dispatched to rome and approved there first , ( a good sure way to prevent any mischief ) and thence the holy ghost came in a portmantue once or twice a week , as the common by-word was then . but when , notwithstanding all this , the grand points of the residence and power of bishops were so hotly debated by the spanish bishops , what arts were used to divert them ? when that would not do , how they bait them in council by the flouting italians ? what private cabals were kept by the legats , what dispatching and posting to rome , what numbers of jolly italians are made bishops , and sent away to over-vote them ? and when the french-bishops were come , what spies did they keep upon them , what bones were thrown to divide the french and spanish bishops , what caressing the cardinal of lorrain to bring him off by the court of rome ? and when any others durst speak freely what checks , and frowns , and disgraces did they meet with ? and all this to keep the pope safe , who was still in bodily fear till the council was ended to his mind ; and then what rejoycing , that they had cheated the world so , that that which was intended to clip the wings of the court of rome , had confirmed and advanced the interest of it . this was truly the head 's presiding over the members : for all the life and motion they had , proceeded from the influence of their head , the pope : call you this presiding in a council ? it is rather riding of it , that by the spurring some and bridling others , they may go just as the pope would have them . and that this is a true account of it , appears , notwithstanding whatever your cardinal palavicino hath been able to object against the impartial history of it ; whose two volumes pretended in answer to it , consist of so many impertinencies , and hath so very little material in it , that a roman catholick himself hath declared to the world , that he hath done more disservice to the church of rome by his answer , then ever father paul did by his history : by whom , his two great books are compared to those night-birds that make a great shew , but are all feathers and very little flesh. this then being the way of management of things at trent , judge you or any reasonable man , whether the protestants have not just cause to except against the presidentship which the pope had in that council ; and name you any general council ( that was truly accounted so ) where ever he had any thing like it ? the particulars you mention , will be considered afterwards . but you say , all this was because the pope was not justly accusable of any crime , but what must involve not only the council , but the whole church as much as himself . if so , there was the greater reason that he should leave it to the church in a free council to have impartially debated things , without his acting and interposing so much as he did . but the pope was wiser then to think so ; he knew there were many things in the court of rome which many other bishops struck at , as well as the protestants ; and that they desired a reformation of abuses as well as the other , especially the german , french , and spanish bishops . nay , it is strange to see how much , interest or prejudice blinds men , that they will not acknowledge now that there was any such need of reformation , when pope adrian , confessed at the dyet at norimberg , a.d. . by cheregatus his legat , that the popes themselves had been the fountain and cause of all those evils in the church ; in these remarkable words ( part of which have been cited already on another occasion ) scimus in hâc sancta sede , aliquot jam annis , multa abominanda fuisse , abusus in spiritualibus , excessus in mandatis , & omnia denique in perversum mutata . nec mirum , si aegritudo à capite in membra , à summis pontificibus in alios praelatos descenderit . omnes nos ( sc. praelati ecclesiastici ) declinavimus , unusquisque in vi●s suas , nec fuit jamdiu , qui faceret bonum , non fuit usque ad unum . quamobrem necesse est , ut omnes demus gloriam deo , & humiliemus animas nostras ei : videat unusquisque nostrûm unde exciderit , & se potius quilibet judicet , quàm à deo in virga furoris sui judicari velit . qua in re quod ad nos pertinet , polliceberis , nos omnem operam adhibituros , ut primum curia haec , unde forte omne hoc malum processit , reformetur : ut sicut inde corruptio in omnes inferiores emanavit , ita ab eadem sanitas & reformatio omnium emanet . ad quod procurandum nos tanto arctius obligatos reputamus , quando universum mundum hujusmodi reformationem avidiùs desiderare videmus . can you now for shame say , there was no need of reformation at that time , and that the popes were no more concerned then the whole church ? the whole church was indeed concerned , to see the court of rome reformed , and we see the pope confesseth , that all the world desired a reformation . doth not he ingenuously acknowledge , that many abominable things had been for many years in the holy see ( and very holy it was , the mean time ) that all things were out of order . that the distemper had fallen from the head to the members , from the popes to other prelates , that they had all gone out of the way , that for a long time there had been none that did good , no not one . that therefore it was necessary , that all should give glory to god , and humble their souls ; and every one see whence he was fallen , and judge himself , rather then be judged by god in the rod of his fury . wherefore ( saith he to his legat ) thou shalt promise for us , that we will use our utmost endeavour , that this court , from whence all the mischief hath proceeded , may be reformed ; that as the corruption hath flowed from thence unto inferiours , so the health and reformation of all may come from thence too . and we look on our selves as the more obliged to procure this , because we see the whole world doth earnestly desire such a reformation . whom must we now believe , the pope or you ? the pope ingenuously and christianly bemoaning the corruptions that had been in popes themselves , and from them had spread to others ; or you , who basely and untruly flatter the popes , as though they needed no reformation , but what concerned the council and church , as well as them ? and the pope gives you the true reason of it , because the corruptions had been so great at rome , that from thence they had spread over all others . and can you think now , that the pope was not justly accused of any crime , but that he might sit as president , and manage the affairs of the council , as though there had been no need at all of any reformation ? but i remember an observation of baronius , that the providence of god was so great in watching over the roman se● , that the popes who were unfit to govern it , seldom continued long in it ; which he makes upon siricius his favour to ruffinus ; and such a pope was this adrian accounted ; this confession of his being very distastful at rome , he continued not long after it . but yet i know you have another answer ready at hand , that all this concerned only some abuses in manners and management of affairs , but nothing confessed to be amiss in doctrine of faith. however , since it belonged to the council to reform those abuses , the pope as an interessed person ought not to have presided there , had it not been his intention to have prevented any real reformation . for all the decrees of the council to that purpose were meerly delusory and nothing of reformation followed upon them ; and the most important things to that end could never pass the council . and if we gain this , that the pope ought not to be judge , where himself is concerned , as to the reformation of abuses ; your former assertion will make the other follow , viz. that in case of heresie , other bishops may in council proceed against the pope , and , by the same reason , when any errours in faith are charged upon him , or those who joyn in communion with him ; that such ought to be debated in a full and free council , where no one concerned may preside to over-aw the rest . but such presidents should be appointed as were in former general councils , to whom it belonged to manage the debates of the council , without any such power and jurisdiction over them , as the pope pretended to have , over all those assembled at trent . and thus it appears , that what his lordship said , was just and true , that it is contrary to all law , divine , natural and humane , that the pope should be chief judge in his own cause . your instances of pope leo at the council of chalcedon , and alexander at the council of nice , will be considered in their due place . which that we may come to , we must examine the matter of fact , as to the popes presidency in general councils . his lordship denying , that the pope did preside in the council of nice , either by himself or legats , because hosius was the president of it ; you answer , that hosius did preside in that council , and so did likewise vitus and vincentius priests of rome , but ( you say ) they all presided as the popes legats and not otherwise . this ( you say ) appears by their subscribing the conciliary decrees in the first place of which no other account can be given ; and because cedrenus and photius confess that the pope gave authority to this council by his legats ; and in the old preface to the council of sardica , it is said expresly , that hosius was the popes legat , and the same acknowledged by hincmarus , and gelasius cyzicenus , whom you prove that photius had read . these being then all the evidences you produce for the popes presidency at the nicene council , we are obliged to afford them a particular consideration . your first argument , which bellarmin and baronius likewise insist on , is the order of subscription , because the name of hosius is set first ; but , if we mark it , this argument supposeth that which it should prove . for thus it proceeds , hosius subscribed first , and therefore he was the roman legat ; hosius was the roman legat , and therefore he subscribed first : for it supposeth that the first subscription did of right belong only to the roman legat ; which we may as well deny , by an argument just like it , vitus and vincentius did not subscribe first , and therefore the roman legats did not subscribe first . but you ask , why then did hosius subscribe before the patriarchs , and other bishops , of greater dignity than himself . i answer , because hosius was president of the council , and not they . but if you ask , why they chose him president before others , the nicene fathers must answer you , and not i. but you say , cedrenus and photius confess , that the pope gave authority to the nicene council by his legats ; but , how comes that to prove , that hosius was one of those legats ? photius i am sure in his book of the seven synods ( first published in greek by justellus out of the sedan library ) sayes no such thing , but only mentions the two presbyters who were there the roman-bishops legats . and cedrenus only mentions the roman legats amongst those who were chief in that council , reckoning up the several patriarchs . your old preface to the sardican synod ( supposed of dionysius exiguus ) is no competent testimony , being of a later author , and a roman too : and hincmarus is much younger than he , and therefore neither of their testimonies hath any force against the ancient writers ; neither hath that of gelasius cyzicenus , who lived under basiliscus a. d. . and that you may not think i do you wrong , to deprive you of his testimony , you may see , how freely baronius passeth his censure upon those acts under the name of nicene council . sed , ut liberè dicam , somnia puto haec omnia ; that i may speak freely , i account them no better than dreams : and gives this very good reason for it ; because ever since the time of that council , all persons have been so extremely desirous of the acts of that council , and yet could never obtain them . but that which comes in the rear , transcends all the rest , which is , that photius , though a schismatical greek , and bitter enemy of the roman church , witnesseth he had read this book of gelasius , and in it the above-cited testimony . and , i pray , what follows from thence ? i hope photius had read many other books in that excellent collection of his bibliotheca besides this ; and , will you say , that photius believed all that he there saith he had read ? no , but you say , that thereupon he confesses that the said hosius was legat for the bishop of rome , at the council of nice . but you would have done well to have told us , where this confession is extant : for you seem to insinuate , as though it were in the same place where he mentions the reading this book of gelasius : but he only saith , that gelasius affirms it , adding nothing at all of his own judgement ; and in his book of the seven synods , where he declares his own mind , he only mentions vitus and vincentius , as the legats of the roman see : and brings in hosius afterwards , not joyning him with vitus and vincentius , but with alexander of constantinople , and sylvester and julius of rome , and alexander and athanasius of alexandria , whom he makes the chief in the council . for if photius had intended to have made hosius one of the popes legats ; there was all the reason in the world he should have set him before vitus and vincentius , who were only presbyters . and that the pope had no other legats there but these two presbyters , we have the consent of all the ancient ecclesiastical historians ; eusebius mentioning the absence of the roman bishop , because of his age adds , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , his presbyters being present , supplied his place ; so theodoret the bishop of rome could not be present , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but he sent two presbyters with power to give his assent ; not to preside over the council . to the same purpose sozomen , nicephorus , zonaras speak . and it is very strange not one of all these historians should mention this , if hosius had presided there as legat of the bishop of rome ; and much more , that hosius should not subscribe first in that capacity , but only as bishop of corduba ; for the popes legats do not use to be so forgetful of their place and honour . it seems then very plain , that the pope had no manner of presidency at the council ef nice : we come therefore to following councils . you grant , that in the second general council , nectarius bishop of constantinople was president , and not the pope or his legats . but the reason ( you say ) was , because pope damasus having first summoned that council to be held at constantinople , and the bishops of the oriental provinces being accordingly there met , the pope , for some reasons , altered his mind , and would have had them come to rome , to joyn with the bishops he had there assembled : which the prelates at constantinople refusing in a submissive manner , alledged such arguments as the pope remained satisfied with them . so the council ( you say ) was upon the matter held in two places , at rome , and constantinople . so that while the pope presided in the council at rome , and gave allowance to their proceedings at constantinople , and that by reason of their entercourse , they were looked on but as one council in effect , and the pope to have presided therein . in all this you discover , how much you take up things upon trust , and utter them with great confidence , when they seem for your purpose , although they are built upon notorious mistakes in ecclesiastical history ; as i shall make it plain to you this answer of yours is . for neither was the general council at constantinople ever in the least summoned by the pope , neither did it ●it at the same time that the council at rome under damasus did ; neither were any letters sent from that council to the pope ; and therefore certainly pope damasus could not in any sense be said to preside there . these things , i know , make you wonder at first ; but i shall undertake to make it appear , how much your great masters ( i need not name them to you ) have abused your credulity in this story . we are to know then , that the emperour theodosius having been newly admitted into a share of the empire by gratian , and the eastern parts of it being allotted to him , he considering what a deplorable condition the churches of those parts were in , by reason of the factions and heresies which were among them , judges it the best expedient to call a council at constantinople ; to see if there were any hopes to bring the church to any peace . for this purpose . bishops meet from the several provinces at constantinople , who condemn macedonius , publish a new creed , make several canons , accept of gregory nazianzen's resignation of the see of constantinople , chuse nectarius in his room , and on the death of meletius at antioch , elect flavianus to succeed him , make a synodical epistle to the emperour theodosius , giving him an account of their proceedings , and so dissolve . this is the short of the narration of it in theodoret , socrates , and sozomen . but as soon as the report of their actions was come into the western parts , great discontents are taken at their proceedings , especially at the election of flavianus to the see at antioch ; because the church of rome had declared it self in favour of paulinus at antioch , during the life of meletius , and therefore by no means would they now yield to the succession of flavianus . upon this , damasus sollicits the emperour gratian for a general council , that the cause might be heard ; and , that the eastern bishops might meet too , he sends other letters to theodosius to the same purpose ; upon the intimation of which , the eastern bishops , who either were detained at constantinople by several occurrences there , or were sent again out of their provinces thither , assemble together , and write a synodical epistle to damasus , ambrosius , britton , valerian , &c. wherein they give an account , why they could not come to rome , because the eastern churches could not , in so divided and busie a time , be left destitute of their bishops , and therefore they desire to be excused ; but however , they had sent cyriacus , eusebius , and priscianus , as their legats thither . this excuse the emperour theodosius accepted of , and damasus and his council were fain to rest satisfied with it ; only some of paulinus his party met him there , as epiphanius and s. hierom ( although s. hierom being no bishop , could only shew his good will , and take that opportunity of returning to rome . ) what this council did under damasus , we are to seek ; for both baronius and binius confess , that the acts of that council , are wholly lost ; only baronius thinks , that the condemnation of apollinaris and timotheus ( which theodoret mentions ) to have been done before ; and that paulinus was restored to the see of antioch by this council : which seems the more probable , in that paulinus the next year returns to antioch ; and because the bishops of rome afterward took his part , and defended his successour against flavianus in the see of antioch . this being the true account of those proceedings , let now any indifferent person judge , whether you were not much put to it , when you are fain to confound two councils held at several times on several occasions , on purpose to blind the reader , and to make him believe that pope damasus had somewhat to do , in calling and presiding in the general council at constantinople ; because he requested the meeting of the bishops again the year after the general council . and the truth of this , is so plain , that baronius and binius confess the difference of these two councils , both as to the times and occasions of them . baronius placeth the oecumenical council at constantinople a. d. . eucherius and syagrius being coss. in may : but the other council at constantinople , he placeth the year after , a. d. . syagrius and antonius coss. at which time likewise the council at rome sate . and so binius reckons this council as a second council at constantinople under damasus , and , in all things concerning the times of this and the former , follows baronius exactly . so much are the two great cardinals , bellarmin and perron mistaken , when they would have the council at constantinople called oecumenical on this account , because there was a council at rome sitting under damasus , at the same time approving what was done at constantinople . whereas the occasion of the council at rome was given by some of the last acts of the oecumenical council , viz. the election of flavianus . but that this could not be , that those two councils at rome , and constantinople , should sit together at the same time , and on the same account , appears by the synodical epistle of the council the year following sent to damasus , which is exemplified both in binius and baronius , and is originally extant in theodoret. although binius placeth it at the end of the oecumenical council , but baronius much more fairly in the next year , as being the act of the second council . now there are two things in that synodical epistle by which i shall prove it impossible , that either the letters of pope damasus did concern the calling of the oecumenical council , or that the sitting of the council at rome , and the general one at constantinople , could be at the same time . the first is from the date of those letters , which is thus expressed there : that they met together at constantinople , having received the letters which were sent the year before from them to the emperour theodosius , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , after the synod at aquileia . now the synod at aquileia by baronius his computation , was held the same year a. d. . in which the oecumenical council at constantinople was held , and much later in the year too , for this was held in the nones of september , and the other in may ; and so much is likewise confessed by binius in his notes on that council . now let me demand of you , whether is it impossible that damasus should , by his letters , summon the oecumenical council , when the date of those letters to theodosius , is so long after the sitting of it ? but besides this , these eastern bishops in that council , which sate after these letters of damasus , clearly distinguished themselves from the oecumenical council of the year foregoing : for , after they had given a brief account of their faith , they referr the pope and western council to that declaration of faith which had been made the year before by the oecumenical council assembled at constantinople , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 · is it possible then any thing should be more evident , than that this council assembled upon the letters of damasus to theodosius , and sitting with the council at rome , is clearly distinct from the oecumenical council of constantinople ? and thus i hope i have dispelled those mists which you would cast before the readers eyes , by confounding these two councils , and thereby offering to prove that the pope had some kind of very remote presidency in the second general council . which is so far from being true , that there is not any intimation in any of the ancient historians , theodoret , socrates , or sozomen , that the pope , or any of the western bishops , had any thing at all to do in it . but you will ask , how comes it then to be accounted an oecumenical council ? for this indeed baronius would fain find out some hand that damasus had in it , or else he cannot conceive how it should become oecumenical ; but all the proof he produceth , is , because in the acts of the sixth council it is said , that theodosius and damasus opposed macedonius : and so i hope he might do by declaring his consent to the doctrine decreed in this council ; not that thereby his approbation made it oecumenical . and , as that doctrine was received , and that confession of faith embraced all over the world , so that council became oecumenical . for i cannot see but that if damasus had stood up for macedonius , if the decrees against him had been received by the catholick church , it had been never the less oecumenical in the sense of antiquity : that testimony which baronius brings out of his own library , and a copy of the vatican , expressing that damasus did summon the council at constantinople , is not to be taken against the consent of the ancient church-historians ; it being well known what interess those roman copies have a long time driven on . i deny not therefore but that the council of constantinople was assented to by damasus , and the western bishops , in the matters of faith there decided , but i utterly deny that damasus had any thing to do in the presidency over that council . so that we find a council alwaies acknowledged to be oecumenical , in which the pope had no presidency at all ; and this very instance sufficiently refutes your hypothesis , viz. that the popes presidency is necessary to a general council . in the third general council held at ephesus a. d. . it is agreed on both sides , that s. cyril patriarch of alexandria , was the president of it : but the question is , in what capacity he sate there , whether in his own , or as legat of celestine bishop of rome ? all the proof you produce for the latter , is , that it appears by a letter written to him by the pope , long before he sent any other legats to that council : in which letter he gives s. cyril charge to supply his place , as is testified by evag●ius , prosper , photius , and divers other authours . but here again you offer to confound two things , which are of a distinct nature : for you would have your reader believe , that this letter was sent by coelestine to cyril , in order to his presidentship in the council , whereas this letter was sent the year before , without any relation to the council ; as appears by the series of the story : which is briefly this ; the differences in the eastern churches increasing about the opinions broached by nestorius , s. cyril of alexandria chiefly appearing in opposition to them they both write ( much about the same time ) to pope coelestine , impeaching each other of heresie . but before coelestine had read the letters from nestorius in vindication of himself , possidonius a deacon of alexandria comes with several dispatches from s. cyril , wherein a large account is given of the heresie and actions of nestorius ; upon which the pope calls a council at rome , and therein examines the allegations on both sides , which being done , the council condemns nestorius , and passeth this sentence on him , that ten daies should be allowed him ( after notice given ) for his repentance ; and , in case of obstinacy , he should be declared excommunicate . and for executing this sentence , coelestine commits his power to cyril ; not as though it belonged to the pope only to do it , but that by this means there might appear the consent of the western with the eastern bishops , in putting nestorius out of the communion of the catholick church . s. cyril having received these letters by the return of possidonius , dated the third of the ides of august , as appears by the letters extant in baronius , calls a council at alexandria , in which four legats are decreed to be sent to constantinople in pursuance of the sentence against nestorius , they deliver the letters of coelestine and cyril to him , he returns them no answer at all , but addresses himself to the emperour theodosius , and complains of the persecutions of cyril , which occasioned a very sharp letter of the emperour to him , charging him with disturbing the churches peace . but this was not all ; for cyril having with the synodical epistle of the council of alexandria , sent twelve anathematisms to be subscribed by nestorius , he was so far from it , that he charges cyril with the heresie of apollinaris in them , and sends them to johannes antiochenus , who ( with the syrian bishops of his diocese ) joyn with nestorius in the impeachment of cyril . so that by this means the sentence against nestorius could not be put in execution , because of the dissent of the eastern bishops , and that s. cyril stood charged with heresie as well as the other . things being grown to this height , theodosius calls a general council at ephesus , to be held the ensuing year , writes to all the metropolitans to appear there at the time appointed , and bring such bishops with them , as they thought convenient ; but what contentions happened there between the two parties , is not here our business to relate ; but the emperour foreseeing what disturbance was like to be there , sent the count candidianus for better management of the affairs of the council . now s. cyril and his party having the advantage of the other , both in number and forwardness of being there , cyril sits as president among them . the question now is , whether he sate there by virtue of that legantine power he had for the excommunicating nestorius the year before , or not ? or only as patriarch of alexandria , and chief of that party ? but by what authority he should challenge to be president of the council , because he had been deputed by coelestine to act his part in the excommunicating nestorius , i think is somewhat hard to understand . neither doth any thing appear in the council which gives any ground for it ; for cyril subscribes to it meerly as patriarch of alexandria , the council on all occasions call him , and memnon of ephesus their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and when they speak of coelestine , after his legats came , they say , he did only 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , assist together with them in council : but , why should coelestine send other legats afterwards , viz. arcadius , philippus , and projectus , if s. cyril supplied the popes place there already ? yet , although we should grant , that before the legats came , cyril did supply the place of coelestine , yet it doth not follow , that he sate president of the council on that account : but only to shew the concurrence of coelestine with the council in matter of doctrine ; and this there was good reason for , because coelestine had fully declared himself to cyril concerning that already . and this was usual in the councils , as appears in this very council by flavianus bishop of philippi ; subscribing likewise in the place of rufus of thessalonica . so that if we grant cyril to sit in the council as legat of coelestine , yet it doth not follow , that he was president of the council in that capacity ; for the other was only to testifie his consent , this required a particular commission to that purpose . so that he might give a vote in the council for coelestine , and yet sit ( as he did ) president of the council as patriarch of alexandria . thus it being manifested , that in the three first general councils , the pope sate not either by himself or his legats as president , it is sufficiently proved thereby , that his presidency is no necessary condition to a general council ; and if not , then we say , it is unjust and unreasonable he should challenge it , when he is the person mainly accused . but in the mean while it is not at all necessary , that we should deny that ever he sate as president in any other general council ; for being the bishop of the chief see , why should he in a case of general concernment to the church , as that of chalcedon , not be allowed by his legats to have the prime place : but there wants sufficient evidence too , that these were properly the presidents of that council . in the next at constantinople you grant , that eutychius bishop of constantinople sate president ; but you say , that he acknowledged this priviledge to be due to pope vigilius . but , how came it to pass then , that he would not sit there , though then at constantinople ? it appears by the many frivolous excuses he made , that he durst not trust himself in the council , for fear that authority should not be given him which he expected . for that hath alwaies been the subtilty of the popes in those elder times , when they began to encroach , not to venture themselves in presence in a general council , for fear of opposition , but by their absence they reserved to themselves a liberty to declare their dissent , when any acts passed which did not please them . as leo did in the case of the council of chalcedon . but however , this is evident from the fifth general council , that the popes presidency was not then thought at all necessary . what was done in following councils , is not material to our purpose , because it doth already sufficiently appear , that the popes presidency is not necessary to a general council , and therefore you conclude with a notorious falsity , in saying with bellarmin , that the pope hath been possest full years of the right of presiding in general councils . his lordships third exception against the council of trent , is , that the place was not free , but either in , or too near the popes dominions . to this you answer , that certainly trent is not within the popes dominion : but it is well enough known , that trent was under the sole jurisdiction of the bishop , and the bishop to be sure was under the popes dominion , having been particularly obliged too , by receiving a cardinal's hat. and therefore it was not without just reason that the place was protested against , not only by the german protestants , as being out of germany where the states of the empire had often promised the council should be ; at the diet at norimberg , at auspurg . spire . ratisbone , . again at norimberg . and last of all at spire . but as a most inconvenient place for them to come to ; being a weeks journey ( as they say ) from the borders of germany , seated in a barren and almost inaccessible place , having no freedom of passage almost amidst the alps ; this place , i say , was not only protested against by them , as being contrary to the promises made to them ; but the german bishops made it their earnest request , that the council might be held in germany ; for at trent , they said they could neither be present themselves , nor send any legats thither : and particularly instance in the unpassableness of the alps between them and trent ; and that it was rather in the borders of italy then germany . and the pope himself in his answer to the german bishops , and the emperours protestation upon the removal of the council from trent to bononia , insists upon the inconvenience of trent for the long residence of the bishops there . and in behalf of the protestants declaring against this place in regard of the unsafeness of it , the places about being all under the popes authority : du ranchin tells you , that it is an exception allowable by the doctors of the canon law , who all agree , that an exception against the safety of the place is pertinent , and ought to be admitted ; that it is good , both by the civil law and the law of nature , that a man summon'd to a place where any danger threatens him , is not bound to appear , nor to send his proctour , and that a judge is bound to assign the parties a place of safety for the hearing of their cause , otherwise there is just cause of appeal . that the council of pisa excepted against appearing at rome on the same accounts , and if they durst not venture to rome upon the offer of safe-conduct , much less reason had the protestants to do it , to such a place as trent , a city , by reason of the neighbouring woods very subject to treacheries and ambushments ; that the very designing such a place yielded ground of fear and suspicion , especially to such as had not forgotten the late examples of john husse , and hierom of prague at the council of constance . that the states of germany in the diet at francford a. d. . pleaded the nullity of the popes excommunication of lewis , because he was cited to avignon where the pope was lord of the place ; and the place being not free for him to appear at , the summons were not canonical , but void and invalid in law. this and many other instances are there brought by the same learned authour to justifie the protestants in not appearing at trent , because the place was not free nor safe ; although the authour seems not to have been one himself . all these things being considered , he must have been an infidel indeed , who would pronounce trent to have been the most indifferent place for both parties to meet at . for what you say , that it might have been as unsafe for the pope and his party , if it had been in germany : there is no reason at all for it , because of the emperours openly owning that interest ; but if you plead the warrs of germany which then broke out , i hope that may serve as a further plea for the protestants , who were in a good condition to go to a free council about matters of religion , when a war was already begun upon them upon the account of religion , as most evidently appears , not only by the supplies sent by the pope , but by the transactions afterwards between the pope and the emperour , in some of which it is expresly confessed . but supposing the place had been never so free , there is another great exception remaining still , viz. that none had suffrage , but such as were sworn to the pope and church of rome , and professed enemies to all that call'd for reformation or a free council . to this you answer , . that it is no new thing for bishops to take an oath of canonical obedience to the pope ; for st. gregory mentions it as an ancient custome in his time ; and therefore this objection would serve as much against ancient general councils as this of trent . . that the bishops oath doth not deprive them of the liberty of their suffrage ; nay it doth not so much as oblige them not to proceed and vote even against the pope himself , if they see just cause ; but only that they will be obedient to him , so long as he commands things suitable to the will of god and the sacred canons of the church . but what falshood and fraud lies in both these answers , it will not take up much time to discover . could you without blushing offer to say , that no other oath was taken by the bishops at the council of trent then what was taken in ancient general councils ? for so much your words imply , when you say , that the same objection would have held as well against them as this of trent . why do you not produce some instance of any oath taken to the pope in any of the first general councils ? i dare challenge you to bring any footsteps of any such thing in any ancient council ; and you must needs have exceedingly hardened your forehead that durst let fall any thing tending that way . it was in much later times before that oath of canonical obedience from bishops to their metropolitan came up ; and when it did , no more took any such oath to the bishop of rome , then such as were under his metropolitical jurisdiction . in your citation of gregory , you would let us see how far you can out-go bellarmin himself in these things . for bellarmin only proves , that it is not new for bishops to take an oath of canonical obedience to the pope ; but you say , that gregory mentions it as an ancient custom in his time , which is egregiously false . for there is not one word in all that epistle implying any thing of former custome , neither doth it contain an oath of canonical obedience made by every bishop at his consecration , but only a form of renunciation of heresie by any bishop who comes off from it to the catholick church , and so the title of it is , promissio cujusdam episcopi haeresin suam anathematizantis ; and what is this , i pray , to the oath taken by every bishop at his consecration ? wherein he swears , to defend and retain the roman papacy , and the royalties of st. peter ( so their new pontifical hath it , whereas in the old one it was regulas sanctorum patrum ) against all men . and was this no more then a bare oath of canonical obedience ? the first mention we meet with of any oath of canonical obedience taken by men in orders , is in the eleventh council of toledo cap. . held , saith loaysa , a. d. . and therein indeed they say it is expedibile , a matter they judge expedient , that those in orders should , promissionis suae vota sub cautione spondere , bind themselves by promise to observe the catholick faith , and obey their superiours : but here is nothing at all concerning any oath to be taken by all bishops to the pope , though bellarmin produce it to that purpose . for that was much later then the time of this council , it beginning at the time of the contests between the popes and princes about investitures ; then the pope to secure as many as he could to himself , binds them in oath of fealty and allegiance , rather then canonical obedience to himself : by which , as spalatensis truly saith , he makes the bishops his slaves and vassals . and therefore in another place , he justly wonders , that any christian princes will suffer any bishops to make that homage by this oath to the pope , which is only due to themselves . for , saith he , that oath which was only of canonical obedience before , they have turned it into absolute homage to the pope , so that none can be consecrated bishops without it . but yet you would perswade us , that notwithstanding this oath they may proceed and vote against the pope himself . surely , pope pius was of another mind , who ( as the appendix to vrspergensis tells us ) in an epistle to the chapter at mentz , saith , that to speak truth against the pope , is to break their oath . but all this will more evidently appear , if we produce the form of the oath it self , i mean not that in the old roman pontifical , but that which was taken in julius the third's time , which was in the time of the sitting of the council of trent . in which , besides in the first place a promise of obedience to the pope and his successours , and a promise of concealment of all his councils , there are these express words , jura , honores , privilegia , & authoritatem romanae ecclesiae , domini nostri papae & successorum praedictorum conservare , defendere , augere , & promovere curabo . i will take care to preserve , defend , increase , and promote the rights , honours , priviledges , and authority of the roman church , and of our lord the pope and his successours aforesaid ; but lest this should not be full enough , there follows another clause , nec ero in concilio , in facto , seu tractatu , in quibus contra dominum nostrum , vel romanam ecclesiam , aliqua sinistra sive praejudicialia personarum , juris , honoris , statûs , & potestatis eorum , machinentur . et , si talia à quibusdam tractari cognovero , aut procurari , impediam hoc pro posse ; & quantocyus potero commodè significabo eidem domino nostro , vel alteri per quem ad ipsius notitiam possit pervenire . i will not be in any council , action , or debate , in which they shall plot or contrive any thing to the prejudice of our lord the pope , or the roman church , or of any persons , right , honour , state or power , belonging to them . was not this now a fit oath to send bishops to a free council with ? where the main thing to have been debated had been the usurped power of the pope and church of rome . he that can believe a council made up of such persons ( who judge this oath lawful ) to be free , may think those men free to rebell against their soveraign , who had but just taken an oath of allegiance to him . not that the pope had any right or power to impose it , or that the oath is in it self lawful ; but that those who judged both these things true , could not possibly be more obliged , not to act in any measure against the pope then they were . and therefore the pope knew what he did , when he utterly denied to absolve the bishops of this oath , which the states of the empire pressed him to , as necessary in order to the freedom of the council : no , said he , i do not mean to have my hands bound up so . he knew well enough , how much his interest lay at stake , if the bishops were released of this oath , and therefore he was resolved to hold them fast enough to himself by it . what restrictions or limitations can you now find out in this oath , whereby these bishops might freely debate the power and authority of the bishop of rome ? they that swear , not to be in any council or debate against the pope , are not like to make any free council about the matters then in dispute . and , do you think now the protestants had no cause to except against this council , where all the bishops were swore before-hand to maintain and defend that which they most complained of . and , were there nothing else but this oath , so unheard of a thing in all ancient councils , so contrary to the ends of a free council ; this were enough to keep them from ever submitting to the judgement of such a council as that of trent was . and yet this is not all neither : for his lordship adds , that the pope himself , to shew his charity , had declared and pronounced the appellants hereticks , before they were condemned by the council . i hope , saith he , an assembly of enemies are no lawful council ; and i think that the decrees of such a one are , omni jure nulla , and carry their nullity with them through all law. all the answer you give to this , is , that the pope did nothing therein but in pursuance of the canons of the church which required him so to do , and of the decrees of general councils , which had already condemned their opinions for heresie . you mend the matter well : for it seems the pope not only did so , but was bound to do so . for shame then never talk of a free and general council , to debate those things which you say were already condemned for heresies by general councils . one may now see , what the safe-conduct had been for the protestants , if they had come to trent ; for it seems they were condemned for hereticks before they came there , and nothing then was wanting but execution . but if the protestants opinions were condemned for heresies before by general councils , why was the council of trent at all summoned ? why was the world so deceived with the promises of a free and general council ? why did they proceed to make new decrees in these matters ? in what ancient general councils will you shew us the popes supremacy , the infallibility of the church of rome decreed , that those who held the contrary should be accounted hereticks ? speak them out , that we may find our selves therein condemned . give us a catalogue of the rest of your tridentine articles , and name us the general councils in which they were decreed as they are there ? but this is not a work for you to meddle in . however , what folly and madness would it be to account that a free council , in which the things to be debated are looked on as condemned heresies already , and no liberty allowed to any persons to debate them ? the last exception you say of his lordship , is , against the small number of bishops present at the tridentine council ; and in the first place he mentions the greeks whom he takes ( say you ) to have been unjustly excluded . to this you say , . the pope called all who had right to come : ( you should say , all whom he would judge to have right to come . ) . the greeks , by reason of their notorious schism , had excluded themselves : and , might not the greeks ( if they were in condition ) every whit as well hold a general council among themselves . and say , the latins had excluded themselves by their notorious schism . you say , it is confessed that no known heretick or schismatick , hath right to sit in council : but still you make your own selves judges , who are orthodox , and who hereticks and schismaticks ; and , might not the greeks again say the very same of you ? and for all that i know , with much more truth and reason . it was then very like to be a genegeneral council , when the pope and his party must sit as judges , who were to be admitted , and who not : might not the donatists in africa have call'd their council of seventy bishops an oecumenical council upon the same grounds , because they accounted none to belong to the church , but such as were of their own party ? and if they did not belong to the church , they could have no right to sit in council . it seems , the more uncharitable you are , the freer your councils are ; for the pope may , by pronouncing men hereticks and schismaticks , keep them from coming to councils , and appearing against him there : and the council be never the less general for all that . if the greeks be not called to the council , they may thank themselves , they are notorious schismaticks , and , if we believe you , hereticks too ; if the protestants be not admitted , it is their own fault they are condemned hereticks ; if none appear from any other more remote churches , still the same plea will serve to exclude them all . for my part i much approve the saying of eugenius in the council of florence , when they spake of the paucity of bishops for a general council , that where he and the emperour , and the patriarch of constantinople were present , there was a general council , though there were no more . and pope pius the fourth might have saved a great deal of mony in his purse , with which he maintained his bishops errant at that council , had he been of the same mind . but the scene of things was altered in europe ; there were such clamours made for a general council , that something must be done to satisfie the world : and , as long as the pope knew how to manage the business , there would be nothing could breed so great danger in it . he therefore barely summons a council , without acquainting any of the eastern patriarchs with it ( as was the custom in the ancient general councils ) among whom it was debated after the emperours indicting of it ; these summoned by the emperours order their metropolitans , the metropolitans the bishops ; the bishops they agreed among themselves , who should go to the council , who on that account might be said to represent those churches from whence they came . what was there like this in the council of trent ? what messages were there sent to the eastern patriarchs of constantinople , antioch , and alexanandria ? what metropolitans came thence ? what bishops by the consent of those churches ? and , if there were nothing of all this , what boldness is it to call this a general council ? just by the same figure that your church is called the catholick church ; which is ▪ by an insufferable catachresis . and must six fugitive greek-bishops give vote here for all the eastern churches ; and two fugitive english-bishops for all the church of england ? i do not then at all wonder , how easily this might be a general council , though there were so very few persons in most of the sessions of it . but you say , there was no need of any particular sending from the greeks , as the case then stood , and still continues ; 't is sufficient they were called by the pope . sufficient indeed for your purpose ; but not at all for a general council ; for if the greek churches had been in condition to have sent an equal number of eastern to western bishops , the popes would rather have lost all , than stood to the judgement of such a council . and this you know well enough , for all your saying , that the greek church condemns the protestants : you dread the greek churches meeting you in a free general council ; and therefore to prevent that , they must be called schismaticks , and excluded as such , though you would never permit the debate of the schism in a free council . as the case then stood , and still continues , there was no need of sending . and , why so ? is it because those churches were then under persecutions , and are still , and therefore there is no hopes that the bishops should come to a general council ? but all that thence follows , is , that as things stood then , and do still , there can be no truly general council ; and that is a just inference : but i suppose you rather mean , because those churches were then in schism , and are still , which still discovers what a wonderful good opinion you have of your selves , and how uncharitable you are to all others . and so great is the excellency of your bishops , that one of them may represent a whole nation ; and so about fifty will be more than sufficient for the whole world . and therefore i rather wonder there were so many bishops at trent ; for , if the pope pleased , as he made patriarchs , primats , and arch-bishops of such places where they never durst go ( which he knew well enough ) it had been but appointing such to stand for such a nation , and such for another , and a small number might have served turn , without putting any to the trouble of coming from any forein countries at all . for otherwise , if we go about to examine the numbers of bishops , by their proportions to the churches they come from , as it ought to be in general councils , we shall find a most pitiful account in the council of trent . for as his lordship saith , is it to be accounted a general council , that in many sessions had scarce ten arch-bishops , or forty or fifty bishops present ? in all the sessions under paul . but two frenchmen , and sometimes none ; as in the sixth , under julius . when henry . of france protested against that council . and from england but one or two ( by your own confession ) and those not sent by authority . and the french ( he saith ) held off till the cardinal of lorrain was got to rome . as for the spaniards , they laboured for many things upon good grounds , but were most unworthily over-born . now to this you have a double answer ready , . that mission or deputation , is not of absolute necessity , but only of canonical provision , when time or state of the countries whence bishops are sent , will permit ; in other cases , it sufficeth they be called by the pope . . for those who were absent , the impediment was not on the councils part ; and in the latter sessions ( wherein all that had been formerly desined by the council , was de novo confirmed and ratified by the unanimous consent of all the prelates ) 't is manifest , the council was so full , that in the number of bishops it exceeded some of the first four general councils . i begin with your first answer , which necessarily implies , that a general council is not so called by representation of the whole church , but by relation to the popes summons . so that if the pope make a general summons , that must be called a general council , though none be present but such whom the pope shall think fit to call thither . but , where do you find any such account of a general council in all antiquity ? i have given you instances already of general councils , in which the popes had nothing at all to do with the summoning of them ; nay , all the four general councils were called by the emperour , and not by the pope , as any one may see , that doth not wilfully blind himself . the pope sometimes did beseech and intreat the emperour to call a council , but never presumed to do it himself in those daies . and this is evident , not only from the historians , but from the authentick acts of the councils themselves ; and perron's distinction of the temporal and spiritual call of councils , is as ill grounded as the popes temporal and spiritual power ; there being no foundation at all in anquity , nor any reason in the thing , for two such several calls , the one by the emperour , and the other by the pope . but this is a meer evasion , the evidence being so clear , as to the emperours calling those councils , the nicene by constantine , the constantinopolitan by theodosius , the ephesine by the junior theodosius , the chalcedonian by martian and valentinian : and this is so clear , that bellarmine in his recognitions confesseth his mistake about the constantinopolitan council being called by the letters of pope damasus ; and acknowledges that to be true , which i at large proved before , that the synodical epistle was not sent by the general council , but by another the year after . if then the calling of councils belongs not of right to the pope , it is not his summoning which can make a general council , without mission and deputation from those churches whom they are to represent . and any other sense of a general council is contrary to the sense of antiquity , and is forced , and unreasonable in it self . for it must be either absolutely general , or by representation ; none ever imagined yet an absolutely general council , and therefore it must be so called as it doth represent ; if so , then there is a necessity of such a deputation . but here a question might arise , whether those deputies of churches have power by their own votes to oblige the churches they are sent from , by conveying in a general council ; or else only as they carry with them the sense of those churches whom they represent : and this latter seems more agreeable to the nature of a truly general council , whose acts must oblige the whole church . for that can only be said to be the act of the whole church , which is done by the bishops delivering the sense of all particular churches ; and it is not easie to understand , how the vniversal church can be obliged any other way ; unless it be proved , that general councils are instituted by some positive law of christ ; so that what is done by the bishops in them , must oblige the catholick church ; and then we must find out not only the institution it self , but the way and manner how general councils should be called , of which the scripture is wholly silent . and therefore there is no reason that there should be any other general council imagined , but by such a representation ; and in order to this , the consent of all those churches must be known by the particular bishops , before they can concurr with others , so as to make a general council . the most suitable way then to a general council , is , that the summons of them being published by the consent of christian princes , every prince may call together a national synod , in which the matters to be debated in the council , are to be discussed , and the sense of that synod fully declared , which those bishops who are appointed by it to go to the general council , are to carry with them , and there to declare the sense of their particular church , and what all these bishops so assembled do all agree in , as the sense of the whole church , may be called the decree of a general council . or in case some great impediment happen , that such bishops cannot assemble from all churches , but a very considerable number appearing and declaring themselves , which upon the first notice of it , is universally received by all particular churches , that may ex post-facto be called a general council ; as it was with the first four oecumenical councils . and yet that in them there was such a deputation as this is , appears by that expression in the synodical epistle of the bishops of constantinople before mentioned ; for in that they give this account , why they could not do what the western bishops desired , because they brought not with them the consent of the bishops , who remained at home to that purpose . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and concerning this only council , viz. at constantinople , have we brought the consent of those bishops which remain in the provinces . so that they looked on the consent of the other bishops to be necessary as well as their own . but now , if we examine your council of trent by this rule , how far is it from any appearance of a general council ? what bishops were there sent from the most of christian churches ? those that did appear , what equality and proportion was there among them ? for voices in general councils ought not to go by the number of bishops , but by the number of churches ; so that if six were sent from the church of england , or france , delivering the sense of that church they come from , they have equal votes with the greatest number of italian bishops . but here lay the great imposture of that council ; first , that the councils being general , depended upon the popes general summons , though never so few bishops appeared ; next that the decrees of the council were to be carried by most voices , and the bishops to give their bare placet ; these things being thus laid , when there was any fear that businesses would not go right , it was but the legats using some art in delaying it , and sending intelligence to rome , and forty bishops are made together , and posted to trent , to help out the number of voices ; and thus it was in the case of the institution and residence of bishops : and this is that you call , a general council . . to your other , that what was wanting in number at first , was made up at last when all former decrees were confirmed by a full number of bishops ; it is soon replied , that this is , as all the rest of the proceedings of that council was , but a meer artifice . for it appears by the history of that council , that in the last session under pius . a proposition was made , that all the decrees under paul and julius should be approved ; which was opposed , because they said it would be a derogation to the authority of the council of those times , if it should seem that the things then done had need of a new confirmation of the fathers , and would shew , that this and that was not all one , because none can confirm his own things . but upon the french bishops earnest insisting upon it , it was determined simply to read them , and no more . and , do you call this a confirming and ratifying them de novo ? so that , for all appears by this last session , the authority of those decrees , must , as far as concerns the council , depend upon the number of the bishops then present , which was but very small certainly for a general council , there being not so many in most of the sessions , as were in the donatists council in africa ; so far were they from the number of the ancient general councils . but here comes your grand objection in the way , that nothing is pretended by us against the council of trent , which might not have been in effect as justly objected by the arrians against the council of nice . but , is not there easily discernable a vast disparity between these two , which way soever we conceive them ? the one called by the emperour , who in person sate in the council , to prevent all disorders and clancular actions ; the other by the pope , who presided in it by his legats , and ordered all things by his directions . in that of nice , the arrian bishops were as freely admitted to debate , as any of the other ; but it was far from being so at the council of trent . in the nicene council , though alexander was no further a party as to the doctrine than the other bishops ( no more was leo at the council of chalcedon , or cyril at ephesus , though those are the three you instance in before ) yet he sate not as president of the council , but the emperour had the chief inspection for the right management of it , and for the conciliar actions hosius was president : would the pope have been contented with such a council in his case , wherein the emperour should have sate in chief , and some other person besides the pope to have presided ? if not , never go about to parallel these two councils with each other . again , in the council of nice , all the bishops came free , without any praeengagement to maintain the party of alexander ; but the bishops at trent were all sworn to defend the papal interest . at nice , the bishops themselves debated the matters in controversie ; at trent , the divines dispute , the bishops in their formalities give their placet . at nice , every one was freely heard , none died for grief of checks being given them for their too free speaking , as there did at trent . and these , i hope , shew , there was much greater reason for the protestants to except against the council of trent , than for the arrians against the council of nice . and yet , besides all these grounds of disparity , those two remain good still , which his lordship instanceth in , viz. that the council of nice proceeded wholly by the scripture , and that the sentence of it hath been universally received by the church , both before and after it ; neither of which can be said of the council of trent . but to these two you offer something by way of answer . to the first , that both these councils had the scripture for their rule , but not their only rule ; for , you say , theodoret expresly sayes , that in condemning the arrian heresie , the council of nice grounded it self upon tradition . but theodoret sayes no such thing ; only out of an epistle of athanasius , he sayes , when the arrians objected that they used words not contained in scripture , they gave them this answer , that so did they too ; but the words which they used , were such as their fathers had used before them ; and , do you call this the grounding the condemnation of them upon tradition ? yet , to do you right , i must suppose that either you took this upon trust , without searching theodoret ; or , if you did , you looked no further than christophorsons translation , which in things concerning the papal controversies , doth notoriously trip ( to say no worse of it , as it were easie to manifest from several examples ) but we need no more than this present . for whereas the words in greek run thus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . which sirmondus faithfully renders , nam cùm ipsi ex verbis non-scriptis impietatem suam adstruxerint : nusquam enim scriptum reperias ex non extantibus ; aut , erat quando non erat ; accusant quod per voces non-scriptas , piè tamen excogitatas , condemnati sint , i. e. though the arrians made use of unwritten words themselves ; yet they accused their adversaries for condemning them by unwritten words ; meaning the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but christophorson translates 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , afferunt , and there ends the sentence , and then makes a new sentence . quapropter ex non-scriptis vocibus , piè tamen excogitatis , condemnati sunt . by this wee see , what necessity there is of searching your citations in antiquity , which you deliver with so much confidence , as though none had ever looked into the fathers but your selves . but i find you so often tripping in your quotations , that where bellarmine hath been used by the latin interpreter , you very securely follow him in it ; as in another place mentioned in this chapter , where christophorson renders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , mandato literarum , which bellarmine confidently cites , as importing damasus his power to summon the council of constantinople , than which nothing can be further from the meaning of those words . thus you see , how vain your attempt is , of proving that the council of nice grounded her definition on tradition , as the council of trent did , which is directly contrary to the advice of constantine , and the proceedings of the council , as his lordship truly told you . to the second concerning the consent of the church , you answer , that the like consent of the church both is , and was , when protestans first began . but , will this reach to a parity , if it were granted ? for his lordship speaks of the consent of the church in all ages , from the primitive and apostolical times . i pray , prove your mass , invocation of saints , worship of images , purgatory , &c. by such a consent as this , and then you may say , there is no such disparity between them : as to what you further add of the council of nice , condemning the quartodecimani for hereticks , i know not where you will find it , i am sure constantine is far from saying so in his epistle perswading to union as to that matter . cannot the council of nice appoint time to celebrate easter ? or determine , that those who come from hereticks , shall not be rebaptized , but they must presently condemn all who do otherwise , for hereticks ? but you must be pardoned ; you are proving a parity between the council of nice and trent , and you know you could not do that sufficiently , unless they condemned all dissenters in any punctilio , for hereticks . his lordship further proves , that trent could be no indifferent council to the church , the pope having made himself a strong party in it ; because there were more italian bishops there , than of all christendom besides ; yea more than double . for where the number of prelates is expressed that had suffrage and vote in that council , the italians are set down to be a hundred eighty seven , and all the rest make but eighty three , so that there were more italian bishops by a hundred and four , than of all the rest of christendom ; sure ( saith he ) the pope did not mean to be over-reached in this council . and whatsoever became of his infallibility otherwise , he might this way be sure to be infallible in whatsoever he would have determined . and this without all doubt is all the infallibility he hath . to this you answer , that the popes making a party , is disproved by the very argument he brings to assert it , viz. the multitude of italian prelates ; for , who knows not , that the italians are more divided in point of interest and dependence , than in any other nation of christendom , by reason of the many soveraign principalities and states , into which italy is divided ? but , what is this to the purpose , unless you could prove that the italian prelates were so divided in point of interest and dependence ? since therefore they have all their dependence on the pope , and not on those principalities in which they live ; this evasion , though very sleight , is yet the best your cause would bear . and the greater you say , the number of bishopricks is in italy , the more friends , i hope , the pope must make by disposing them ; and , could they do the pope better service , than to help him in this grand business at trent , wherein they sought to outvy each other by promoting the popes interest . but not only the protestants complained of this , but the emperour and other princes , and all impartial men in germany , france ; nay , and in some part of italy too . but here his lordship encounters an objection of bellarmine , viz. that in the council of nice there were as few bishops of the west present , as were of the east at trent , and manifestly shews the great disparity between the the two councils . . because it is not a meer disparity in number which he insists on , but with it the popes carriage , to be sure of a major part ; but neither the greek church in general , nor any patriarch of the east , had any private interest to look to , in the council at nice . . it was not so much a disparity between the eastern and western bishops , but that there were so many more italians and bishops obnoxious to the popes power , than of all germany , france , spain , and of all other parts of the west besides . . even in the comparison of those two councils , as to eastern and western bishops , there is this remarkable difference , that pope sylvester with . bishops confirmed the council at nice , but the council at trent was never confirmed by any council of eastern bishops . to the two first of these you answer with your best property , silence . only you would fain perswade some silly people ( if there be any so weak in the world that enquire into such things ) that the pope had no private interest at trent , but what was common to him with other bishops . you should have done well to have commended the excellency of an implicite faith , before you had uttered a thing so contrary to the sense of the whole christian world. to the third you confess , it is some disparity , but nothing to the purpose , because if the pope himself had ratified them , the council would have had as much authority as by that accessory assembly . the more to blame was the pope a great deal , for putting so many bishops to so needless a trouble . but you say further , this council was not held just at the same time . but binius tells you , it was held assoon as might be , after the notice of what was done at nice ; shew us the like of the eastern bishops at any time , and we will not quarrel with you , because it was not at the same time : though these answers may pass for want of better , they come not near your last , which is a prodigious one , the sense of it being , that the doctrine of faith defined by the council of trent was more universally received in the church , then that of the council of nice . for that of trent , you say , was universally received by the whole catholick church , and hath been more constantly held ever since ; whereas many provinces , either in whole or in part , deserted the faith defined at nice , and embraced the arrian heresie . it seems then , the twelve good articles of trent have been more generally received by the catholick church , then the eternal existence of the son of god ; and consequently , that you are more bound to believe the doctrine of purgatory , or transubstantiation , then that the son is of the same substance with the father : for your grounds of faith being resolved into the churches infallibility , you cannot believe that which hath been so much questioned in the church , so firmly as that which hath been universally believed and constantly held . but the universal reception of the doctrine of the council of trent by the whole catholick church , is so intolerable a falshood , that you would scarce have vented it , unless it were your design to write for the whetstone . to c's objection , that neither french , nor spanish , nor schismatical greeks did agree with the protestants in those points which were defined by the council , his lordship answers , that there can be no certainty , who did agree , and who not , ( or who might have agreed before the council ended ) because they were not admitted to a fair and free dispute . and it may be too , some decrees would have been more favourable to them , had not the care of the popes interest made them sowrer . here you complain , of his lordships falling again to his surmizes , of the bishops being over-awed by the popes authority in the council ; which you call an empty and injurious suspicion , an unworthy accusation , and arguing the want of christian charity . but usually when you storm the most , you are the most guilty . for if you call this an empty suspicion , &c. you charge many more with it besides his lordship , and those , the greatest of your own communion ; what meant else , the frequent protestations of the french and spanish ambassadours , in which they often declared , that as things were managed , the council was not free ? what meant those words of the emperour ferdinand , in his letters to the legats and the pope ? that the liberty of the council was impeached chiefly by three causes : one , because every thing was first consulted of at rome : another , because the legats had assumed to themselves only the liberty of proposing , which ought to be common to all : the third , because of the practises which some prelats interested in the greatness of the court of rome did make . the french ambassadour , monsieur de lansac writ to the king his master , that the pope was so much master of this council , that his pensioners , whatsoever the emperours or we do remonstrate to them , will do but what they list . several of the like nature might easily be produced , so that it is not his lordship only is guilty of this want of charity ( as you call it ) but all impartial persons , who were most acquainted with the affairs of that council . whose judgement is certainly much more to be taken then such who have sworn to defend it . but you have an excellent argument to prove the council free , because the bishops of the council continued in the faith and doctrine of it as long as they lived . and had they not good reason so to do , when they were sworn before hand to defend the pope , and having secured him from danger of reformation by the council , and subscribed the decrees of it , they were as much bound to defend their own acts . and although it is well enough known what practises were used to bring off the french and spanish bishops ; yet when they were brought off , what a shame would it have been for them to have revolted from their own subscriptions ? but what is this to that general freedom which was desired by the roman catholick princes for reformation of the court of rome , and by protestants both of the court and church ? was the council any thing the more free , because that party which met there continued in what they had done ? just , as if a part of a common-council should suffer only such persons to come there whom they thought fit , and suffer nothing to be debated , but what two or three of the leading men should propound , and yet this be call'd a free common-council , because they who were of it , did after they had done , persist in it ? and this is all you have to plead for the freedom of the council of trent . touching the greek church and the writings of the patriarch hieremias , it is to little purpose , to say , that they differ from us in several things , unless you could prove , that they did agree with you in all . and if ( as you say ) they do condemn protestantism , you cannot but know they do much more condemn popery ; and that in some of the main articles of it . and therefore we have reason to believe , that you more dread a free council , wherein the greek churches may be admitted to equal votes with the latin , then the protestants do the judgement of the greek church . for it is sufficiently known , how much the greeks agree with us in the opposition to the great points of the popes supremacy , and the infallibility of the church of rome ; how far they are from the belief of purgatory in your sense , and several other things which are contained in the decrees of the council of trent : if the patriarch hieremias did not in all things agree with the lutheran divines , doth it thence follow , that he would subscribe to the council of trent ? but because you pretend to give us a full account of the proceedings , between the patriarch hieremias , and the lutheran divines , we must a little further enquire into them . you tell us then , that about the end of the last century , some eminent protestants of the lutheran party , endeavoured to feel the pulse of the greek church , to see if they could there find any symptoms of their own disease . the design was ( you say ) to close with the greeks , for the better making out the pretended perpetual succession of their church ; which project they so hotly pursued , though formerly in vain attempted , that they would not desist till the patriarch being settled in his throne , they had sent him the sum of their reformed belief , drawn up according to the augustan confession . after a long entercourse of letters , answers , and replies mutually continued for some years , and all arguments used that might induce the patriarch to receive them into his communion , he could not be courted to so much as the least shew of approving their doctrine : but did in all his answers clearly confirm the tenets of the roman catholick church , which those lutherans endeavoured to overthrow . in so much , that the patriarch tyred with their importunity , gave them a rebuke for their departure from the doctrine of the catholick church , and desired them not to trouble him any more with their writings . a very formal story ! one would expect the next news should have been , that the patriarch had come to kiss his holiness's feet , or at least subscribed to the council of trent . but all your stories out of the east have not so much truth as formality in them : witness one for all , that solemn legation from gabriel patriarch of alexandria , to pope clement , wherein an acknowledgement was made of the popes supremacy as head of the church ; upon which , such joy was conceived at rome , that baronius unmeasurably triumphs upon it , and sayes , it tends as much to the joy of catholicks , as to the confusion of hereticks : and therefore hath very solemnly published the legation it self ; at the end of the sixth tome of his annals ; but upon a further examination of it , it was all found to be a meer fiction and imposture of one barton , as both thuanus and thomas à jesu confess . but we must suppose no such danger in this story , for you tell us , you have it from spondanus , and he out of the writings of those protestants themselves : but i much rather believe by the circumstances of your story , that either you , or spondanus , had it from socolovius their virulent adversary , who having clancularly procured a copy of the patriarchs answer , he publishes it in latin with the title of censura orientalis ecclesiae , and gives much the same account as you do here . in which there are two grand mistakes , first , as to the design , which you say , was to be admitted into communion with the greek church : the second , as to the event which you say was , that the patriarch did not shew the least approbation of their doctrine , but did in all his answers confirm the tenets of the roman catholick church . both which , how notoriously false they are , will presently appear by a full account of the circumstances of this affair . we must know then , that the news of the lutherans appearing in germany against the pope being spread at constantinople , great enquiry was made what their doctrine was , and they were represented ( by whose arts one may easily guess ) as men holding strange opinions , denying the divinity of christ , &c. as appears by a letter lately published of a divine about that time resident in constantinople ; and withall , that they were defamed generally as persons of no religion at all , and of wicked and flagitious lives : upon this , those german divines send by stephanus gerlachius chaplain to the emperours embassadour , a greek copy of the augustan confession , martinus crusius having before sent a letter only of respect to the patriarch hieremias ; who by the means of cantacuzenus was made patriarch in the room of metrophanes , who was then deposed . gerlachius , as appears by a letter of his dated may ▪ a. . carries the copy of the augustan confession to the patriarch , who then had his council about him , which with great joy and delight , he saith , he read in the presence of them , and delivered it to be read to the priests and calogeri ; but five points he selected out of it to be further discussed , and when afterwards he waited on the patriarch to know his judgement concerning it , johannes zygomalas , who was then the rhetor patriarchicus a kind of chancellour to him , told him , that having read it almost all over , they approved almost all , except that about procession of the holy ghost from the son , and unleavened bread ; but he particularly desired the patriarch to return an answer to the divines , who sent it with his judgement upon it : and having spoken with the metropolitan of nice and others , they seemed very much pleased with that confession . with the patriarchs letter johannes zygomalas writes to martin crusius , and therein tells him , that though in all things the patriarch did not assent to them ; yet it might be evident to all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that they did agree in the most important articles of christian faith ; and that in other things they might easily agree , if they left the new and strange customs and adhered to the catholick church with them , and there was the greater hopes of it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , since neither part did agree with the bishop of old rome , or the church which joynes with him , but both oppose the evil customs and abuses which come by him : which bears the same date with the patriarchs first answer to the tubing divines may . . and the patriarch in his letter heartily wishes an union and conjunction between them . from hence we may easily gather , how true both those things were , viz. that the intent of their writing was , to be admitted into the communion of the greek church , and that the patriarch did not in the least approve their doctrine , but confirmed the tenets of the roman catholick church . but we must look further into the writings themselves , to see how far they agreed , and wherein they differed . it appears then , that the patriarch did profess his consent with them in these things , besides the articles of the creed , and the satisfaction of christ , and other more general points , viz. that the sacrament was to be received in both kinds , that the use of marriage was not to be absolutely forbidden the clergy , though their custom is , that they must be married before they take orders ; besides the grand articles of the popes supremacy , and the roman churches infallibility ; doth he that joyns with them in these things not in the least approve their doctrine , but confirm the tenets of the roman catholick church ? but withall , it must be confessed , that besides that common article of the procession of the spirit , wherein he disputes most earnestly ; there are five others , in which they dissented from each other , about free will , justification by faith , the number of sacraments , invocation of saints , and monastick life , and about these the remaining disputes were . in some of which it is easie to discern how far the right state of the question was from being apprehended , which the lutheran divines perceiving sent him a larger and fuller explication of their mind in a body of divinity in greek ; but the patriarchs troubles coming on , cantacuzenus deposing him too , and other businesses taking him off upon his restauration , he breaks off the conference between them . but although he differed from them in these things , yet he was far enough from rebuking them for departing from the roman church , although he was desirous they should have joyned with them in the approbation of such things as were in use among themselves . and in those things in which he seems to plead for some practises in use in the roman church , yet there are many considerable circumstances about them , wherein they differ from the church of rome , as hath been manifested by many others . as in the article of invocation of saints , the patriarch saith , they do not properly invocate saints but god , for neither peter nor paul do hear us , upon which ground it is impossible to maintain the romish doctrine of invocation of saints . and in most of the other , the main difference lies in the want of a true state of the questions between them . but is this any such great matter of admiration , that the patriarch upon the first sight of their confession should declare his dissent from them in these things ? it is well enough known , how much barbarism had crept into the greek church after their being subdued by the turks , the means of instruction being taken from them , and it being very rare at that time to have any sermons at all , in so much , that one of your calogeri being more learned then the rest , and preaching there in lent , was thereby under great suspicion , and at last was by the patriarch himself sent out of the way . it is therefore more to be wondered they should preserve so much of the doctrine of faith entire as they have done , then that any corrupt practises should prevail amongst them . the most then , which you can make of the judgement of the patriarch hieremias , is , that in some things he was opposite to the protestants , as in others to the church of rome . but what would you have said , if any patriarch of constantinople had declared his consent so fully with the church of rome , as the patriarch cyril did afterwards with the protestants ? who on that account suffered so much by the practises of the jesuits , of whom he complains in his epistle to vtenbogard . and although a faction was raised against him by parthenius who succeeded him , yet another parthenius succeeding him stood up in vindication of him . since therefore such different opinions have been among them about the present controversies of the christian world , and there being no declared confession of their faith which is owned by the whole greek church , as to these things ; there can be no confident pronouncing what their judgement is , as to all our differences , till they have further declared themselves . part iii. of particular controversies . chap. i. of the infallibility of general councils . how far this tends to the ending controversies . two distinct questions concerning the infallibility , and authority of general councils . the first entered upon , with the state of the question . that there can be no certainty of faith that general councils are infallible ; nor that the particular decrees of any of them are so : which are largely proved . pighius his arguments against the divine institution of general councils . the places of scripture considered , which are brought for the churches infallibility , and that these cannot prove that general councils are so ; matth. . . acts . . particularly answered . the sense of the fathers in their high expressions of the decrees of councils . no consent of the church as to their infallibility . the place of st. austin about the amendment of former general councils by latter , at large vindicated . no other places in s. austin prove them infallible , but many to the contrary . general councils cannot be infallible in the conclusion , if not in the use of the means . no such infallibility , without as immediate a revelation as the prophets and apostles had : taking infallibility not for an absolute unerring power , but such as comes by a promise of divine assistance preserving from errour . no obligation to internal assent , but from immediate divine authority . of the consistency of faith and reason in things propounded to be believed . the suitableness of the contrary doctrine to the romanists principles . if high pretences and large promises were the only things , which we ought to value any church for , there were none comparable to the church of rome . for there can be nothing imagined amiss in the christian world , but , if we believe the bills her factours set up , she hath an infallible cure for it . if any enquire into the grounds of religion , they tell us , that her testimony only can give them infallible certainty ; if any are afraid of mistaking in opinions , they have the only infallible judge of controversies to go to ; if any complain of the rents and divisions of the christian world , they have infallible councils either to prevent or heal them . who then would not run into the bosom of such a church as this , with whom there is nothing but what is infallible ? who but scepticks , hereticks , and schismaticks would keep out of her communion ? for what is there , men can desire more in a church then she hath , where every thing is so infallible ? faith is infallible , tradition infallible , the church infallible , the pope infallible , general councils infallible , and what not ? but who are there that more cheat and deceive the world , then those mountebanks , who pretend to the most infallible cures ? for , what is wanting in truth and reality must be helped out with the greater confidence ; and so we shall find it to be in these infallible pretenders , who fall short in nothing more then where they lay the highest claim to infallibility . thus we have already manifested , that none have more weakened faith , then such who have given out , that they only could make it infallibly certain , none have brought more errours then that church which arrogates to her self , that she is infallible ; it now remains , that we discover that nothing is further from promoting the churches peace , then this present pretence of the infallibility of general councils . for the ending of controversies was the occasion of this dispute ; but this dispute it self hath caused more . and will do so , as long as men desire to see reason for what they do . for it cannot be expected , that men should yield their judgements up to the decrees of every such combination of men as shall call it self a general council , unless it be evidently proved , that it is impossible they should erre in those decrees . where there be no other wayes found out for the ending some great controversies of the church , but by a free and general council , all wise men will value the churches peace so far as not to oppose the determinations of it ; it being the highest court of appeal which the church hath . but there is a great deal of difference between a submission for peace sake , in those things which are not contrary to the fundamentals of faith , and the assent of the mind to all the decrees of such a council as in themselves are infallible . for , supposing them subject to errour , yet if that errour be not such as doth over-weigh the peace of the church , the authority of it may be so great as to bind men to a submission to them . but where they challenge an internal assent by vertue of such decrees , there must be first proved an impossibility of erring in them , before any can look on themselves as obliged to give it . and while men contend about this , that which was mainly aimed at , is lost by these contentions , which is the vnity and peace of the church . for it is a most fond and unreasonable thing , to suppose , there may not be as great divisions in the world , about the wayes to end controversies as any other . nay it is apparent , that the greatest controversies this day in the christian world are upon this subject . it is not therefore any high challenge of infallibility in any person or council which must put an end to controversies ; for nothing but truth and reason can ever do it , and the more men pretend to unreasonable wayes of deciding them , instead of ending one they beget many . for the higher the pretences are , the more all wise men are apt to suspect them , and to require the more clear and pregnant evidence for what they say ; and if they fail in that , they have reason to question their integrity much more then if they had contented themselves with more moderate claims . for it is not saying councils are infallible , will make men yield the sooner to their determinations , unless you first convince their reason by proving that they are so . but if you aim at nothing but the churches peace , you might save your selves this labour ; perswade men to be meek and humble , sober and rational , and i dare promise you the church shall be more at quiet , than if you could prove all the councils in the world to be infallible . for , will that ever put a stop to the contentious spirits of men ? will that alter their tempers , or make them delight in those things which are contrary to them ? no , you only offer to apply that physick to the foreheads of men which should be taken inwards ; if you would endeavour to promote true piety and a christian spirit in the world , that would tend more to the churches peace then all your contests about the infallibility of general councils . but since you are resolved to contend , the nature of my task requires me to follow you , which i shall more chearfully do , because , in pretence at least , it is for peace sake . this is then the first of those particular controversies which this last part is designed for the handling of , and which in the consequence of it , brings in many of those particular errours , which we charge your church with . in handling of which , i must ( as i have hitherto done ) confine my self to those lines you have drawn for me to direct my course by . only in this first , to prevent that confusion and tediousness which your discourse is subject to , i find it necessary to alter the method somewhat . for there being two distinct questions treated of , viz. whether general councils be infallible ? and supposing them not infallible , how far they are to be submitted to ? you have intermixed these two so together , that it will easily puzzle the reader to see which of them it is you discourse of . and although i must confess his lordship hath gone before you in it , as his occasion of entring into it required , yet now the points coming to be more fully examined , it will be the most natural and easie method to handle them apart , and to begin first with that of infallibility ; for the other supposing the denial of it , it ought to follow the reasons which are given for that denial . but although i thus transpose your method , i assure you it is not with an intention to skip over any thing material , but i shall readily resume the debate of it in its proper place . in your entrance into this dispute , you give us very little hopes of any great advantage is like to come by it , because , upon your principles , it is impossible we should agree about the requisites to a general council ; for his lordship wishing that a lawful general council were called to end controversies , you presently say , a pure one to be sure , if according to his wish . yes , too pure a great deal for you , to be willing to be tryed by . and when his lordship professes , that an easie general general council shall satisfie him , that is lawfully called , continued , and ended according to the same course , and under the same conditions , which general councils observed in the primitive church : you say , it is too general to be ingenuous ; you mean , such a council would be too general for your purpose ; for , you are resolved in your following words , not to yield to such a council wherein all excommunicate bishops , hereticks and schismaticks are not excluded ; which is , in short , to tell us , you are resolved to account none general councils , but such as are wholly of your own pary , in which the pope shall sit as judge , who are admitted , and who not ; though this be as contrary to sense and reason , as it is to the practice of the primitive church , in those councils which were then called . in which i have already proved , that the pope did not sit as president . and , as long as you hold to such unreasonable conditions , it evidently appears , that your discourses of general councils , are meerly delusory ; and , to use your own words , such a general council as you would have , is a meer nothing ( as to a general and free council ) , an empty name to amuse silly people with ; for , you require such conditions in order to it , as are destructive both to the freedom , and being of a general council . if therefore it be true , which you say , that morally speaking such a general council , as protestants would have , is impossible to be had ; it is much more true , that such a general council as you would have , it is most unreasonable we should submit to . for , as long as you condemn all other bishops , but those of your own , church for out-laws , and desertors of the catholick church ; and give no other reason for it , but because you say so ; we thereby see , how absolutely averse you are from any free council , and that without any shew of justice , you condemn all others but your selves , without suffering them to plead for themselves in an indifferent council , where both parties may be equally heard . but it was wisely said of pope clement . that general councils are very dangerous , when the popes authority is called in question ; and this you know well enough ; for , if a free council were held , the pope himself might be found with his party to be the greatest out-laws and desertors of the truly catholick church . but in such pack'd councils , where the pope sits as president , and orders all by his legats , i shall desire you once more to ruminate over your own words ; what rebel would ever be found criminal , if he might be allowed to be his own judge ? but of such a kind of council as you would have , i have spoken sufficiently in the precedent chapter . that which we are now upon , is not the hypothesis , but the thesis , in which we are to enquire , whether such a general council as you suppose , be infallible or no ? his lordship maintains the negative , and you the affirmative . your opinion then is , that the decrees of a general council confirmed by the pope , are infallible , and that the holding of this , is a piece of catholick faith ; and that it secures all the members of the church from erring in any matter of faith. for you say , it is not de fide , that the pope without a council is infallible ; but , that pope and council together are infallible , you all along above assert to be so ; and that the decrees of general councils fall nothing short in point of certainty of the scripture it self ; and that the contrary opinion does actually expose and abandon all the adherents to it , to an unevitable wavering and uncertainty in faith. these are your own words , in several places which i have laid together , the better to discern the state of the question . the main thing then whereon the use of general councils depends being , that this must be believed to be de fide , in order to the certainty of mens faith , and prevention of errours ; that i may the better shew , how insignificant all this pretext of the infallibility of general councils , is , i shall first prove from your own principles , that this cannot be de fide , and then examine the grounds you insist on for the proof of their infallibility . i begin with the first , which will sufficiently demonstrate , to how little purpose you talk of this infallibility of councils , for preventing uncertainty of faith , when you cannot have any certainty of faith at all as to that principle which must prevent it . for , supposing that really general councils are infallible , if you cannot give me any reasons to believe that they are so , their decrees can have no power over my understanding , to oblige me to assent to them . and since you say , this principle must be held de fide , if there be no foundation at all for such an assent of faith to it , i must needs be uncertain , whatever the decrees of those councils be upon your own principles . if you require an assent to the decrees of councils as infallible , there must be an antecedent assent to this proposition , that whatsoever councils decree , is infallible : as i cannot assent to any thing as infallible , which is contained in scripture , unless i first assent to this , that the scripture it self is infallible . if i therefore prove from your own principles , that none can have an assent of faith to this proposition , that whatever general councils decree , is infallible , then all your discourse comes to nothing , and men can have no more certainty by their decrees , than if they were not infallible . and this i shall prove by these things ; . that you can have no certainty of faith ( i must use your own terms ) that the decrees of general councils in the general are infallible . . that you can have no such certainty as to the decrees of any general council in particular . . that you cannot in the general have any certainty of faith as to the infallibility of general councils . for , . what infallible testimony have you for this , without which , you say , no certainty of faith is to be had ? it is not enough for you to say , that the testimonies of scripture you produce , are an infallible testimony for it : for that were to make the scripture the sole judge of this great controversie , which you deny to be the sole judge of any : and we must consider this as a present controversie , which divides the church , whether general councils be infallible or no ; in order to the ending which controversie , we desire you to assign the way to it ; for , you tell us , you have the only infallible way of putting an end to controversies . shew us therefore , which way this must be ended in the first place ? not by scripture , for that were to come wholly over to us ; and if it may decide this controversie , it may as well all others . who must then ? the pope ? that cannot be , for we are not bound to believe him infallible , but only with a general council , as you tell us often . must every one judge it by his reason ? no , this is the private spirit , and would leave all to uncertainties . what then must do it ? the pope and council together ? but that is it we are enquiring for , whether we are to believe pope and council , or no : and then the reason is , we must believe them , because they say so . and , can any thing be more ridiculous , than for you to deny that the scriptures are to be believed for themselves , and to assert , that the pope and council are to be believed for themselves ? if the pope and council then should declare their decrees infallible , on what account are we bound to believe them to be so ? you have found it then an excellent way for ending all other controversies that are so far to seek for ending this ; which you cannot possibly do , without renouncing some of your principles , or an apparent contradiction . but besides this , . your very manner of asserting the infallibility of general councils , destroyes all certainty of faith concerning it . for , you say , that councils are not infallible , unless they be confirmed by the pope : which , to the apprehension of any reasonable man , is , that they are not in and of themselves infallible , but by vertue of the popes confirmation . and therefore to say that councils are infallible , and then make that infallibility depend upon the popes confirmation , is meerly delusory : for , you may as well say , that the pope and provincial councils are infallible . for , doth the decree receive any infallibility from the council , or not ? if it doth , then the decree is infallible , whether the pope confirm it or no : if it doth not , then the infallibility is wholly in the pope : and he may as well make a provincial council infallible , as a general . but , suppose it be some promise which helps the pope in a general council , which doth not in a lesser ( though there be no reason for that , for he is head of the church in one as well as in the other ) yet you cannot have any certainty of faith , that the council is infallible . for , you say , the popes confirmation is necessary to make it infallible , but that the pope may infallibly confirm the council is no matter of faith , and therefore the infallibility of the council can be none . for if the councils infallibility depend on the popes confirmation , you can have no greater certainty of the councils infallibility , then you have that the pope will infallibly confirm it : but you can have no certainty of faith , that the pope will infallibly confirm the council ; therefore neither can you have any of the councils infallibility . the assumption depends upon this , that you acknowledge you can have no certainty of faith , that the pope is infallible , but when he decrees in a general council , i. e. that the decrees by pope and council are infallible . but you can have no certainty , that the pope in the act of confirming them , is infallible ; for if so , you might assert it de fide , that the pope without a council , is infallible . for his act of confirmation is distinct from that infallibility which lyes in the decrees , which have passed both pope and council . so that if the infallibility of councils lyes wholly in the popes confirmation , and you can have no certainty of faith of the popes infallibility , you can have no certainty of faith of the infallibility of general councils . but , suppose we should grant , that you might in general be certain of the infallibility of general councils , when we come to instance in any one of them , you can have no certainty of faith , as to the infallibility of the decrees of it . for you can have no such certainty , that this was a lawful general council , that it passed such decrees , that it proceeded lawfully in passing them , and that this is the certain meaning of them ; and yet all these are necessary in order to the believing those decrees to be infallible , with such a faith as you call divine . . you can have no certainty of faith , that this was a lawful general council ; for that depends upon such things which you cannot say are de fide , as , that the bishops in the council , are lawful bishops , that the pope who confirms them is a lawful pope ; for , by your own explication afterwards of your doctrine , concerning the intention of the priest , you say , it can be but a moral certainty , and that , you contend elsewhere , can be no ground for a divine faith. besides , you can have no more certainty , that is a lawful council , whose decrees you assent to , than you have , that those bishops who are excluded , are hereticks or schismaticks ; but , can you be certain of that with divine faith ? and , whereon is that faith built ? . you can have no such kind of certainty , of what decrees were passed by them , and whether those decrees were at all confirmed by the pope or no ? for bellarmin confesseth , no other certainty can be had of that , than that whereby we believe there were such persons as cicero , or julius caesar ; and condemns vega for saying , the certainty of it depends upon the definitions of the council it self . now this at the best , being but a humane or moral certainty , you must contradict your self , if you say , that a divine faith may be built upon it . . what certainty can you have , that may be a ground for faith , that the council hath proceeded lawfully ; for , in case he doth not , your own authours say , it may not be infallible : for so bellarmin answers in the case of the council of chalcedon , concilium legitimum posse errare in his quae non legitimè agit , that a lawful council may erre , in case it doth not proceed lawfully . now , who can assure one , that there have been no practices at all used to bring off some men to give their votes with them ? it is hard to conceive such a body of men , wherein some few do not sway and govern all the rest , and in that case , can any one say , that it was the spirit of god which governed the council ? especially if one preside in the council , who hath authority and power above all the rest , and that others in the council have any dependence on him ; who can then expect that freedom which is requisite to a general council ? the councils of ariminum and seleucia , are condemned ; because , though there were a very great number of bishops , yet some out-witted all the rest , and , by their subtilty , brought them to subscribe that confession of faith , which pope liberius afterwards confirmed by his own subscription . and if so great a council as this , must be reprobated on that account ; why not all others , where there are suspicions of the same arts and subtilties ? nay , how can a man be sure there have not been such arts used in councils ? for it is not to be expected , that such things should be much known to the world , they being privately managed with the greatest secrecy that may be . and yet it is in this case necessary to know , that the council proceeded with all simplicity and plainness ; for otherwise their determinations may not be infallible . in order to which nothing is more requisite than that there be no one , which hath any great authority over them : for if the second council of ephesus , lawfully summoned , and the popes legats being present , be therefore rejected , because dioscorus the patriarch of alexandria did over-rule the rest ; what assurance can we have of any fair dealing , where the pope himself presides , who hath more waies both to terrifie and oblige , than ever dioscorus could have ? besides , set aside this over-awing by some potent person , suppose some active and subtil men perceiving how things are like to go in a council , use their wits to bring off some men , not of so deep reach as others , to their own party , and it may be by the accession of a small number , they over-vote the rest ; must we presently say , that the spirit of god went off with those few men to the other party ? for the decrees of councils going by votes , and those votes by the major part ; who doth not see , how easie it is ( when it stands , it may be , upon a few votes ) to fetch off a number to the other side . and i do not know , where the spirit of god hath promised , that where three or four men may so much alter the decrees of a general council , those decrees , if they pass the major part , shall be infallible , and as certain as the scripture . to be sure then , there ought to be great confidence of the simplicity of the councils proceedings where a man must assent to them as infallible : and to that end men must be assured that they came thither without any prejudice upon their minds ; that when they were there , they sought nothing but the truth and the honour of christ ; or else , to be sure , they are not gathered in his name , and if not so , they cannot expect he should be in the midst of them . now let any one who understands the world , and humane nature , see if he can perswade himself , that a council can have no prejudices or by-ends upon them , that nothing of interest and reputation , may sway upon them when they are met there , that there shall be no heats or contentions among them ; for if there be , let him then see , whether he can believe them to be infallible ? if you say , in a matter so highly concerning the church , the spirit of god will not suffer them to erre : you must first shew , where the spirit of god hath promised this ; and then , if you could , that those promises do not suppose the performance of some conditions , which if they neglect , they may want the effect of them . in which case , there can be no greater assurance of the spirit 's presence , than there is of performance of the conditions , which is the thing i now aim at . besides all which , we have known , that when it hath been a matter of as great concernment to the church , as any of those you can fancy , great numbers of bishops at sirmium , seleucia , ariminum , ephesus , have miscarried , and decreed that which hath been judged heresie by the church . . suppose men could be assured of the proceedings of the council , yet what certainty of faith can be had of the meaning of those decrees ? for we see they are as lyable to many interpretations as any other writings . if the scriptures cannot put an end to controversies on that account , how can general councils do it ? when their decrees are as lyable to a private sense and wrong interpretation as the scriptures are : nay much more , for we have many other places to compare , the help of original tongues , and the consent of the primitive church to understand scriptures by : when the decrees of councils are many times purposely framed in general terms , and with ambiguous expressions to give satisfaction to some dissenting parties then in the council . who knows not , what disputes have been raised about the sense of some of the decrees of the council of trent ? about which the several parties neither are , nor are like to be , agreed . nay , who is so unacquainted with the proceedings of that council , as not to understand how much care was taken in many of the decrees to pass them in such general terms , that each party might find their sense in them . how fearful were they of declaring themselves , for fear of disobliging a particular party ? and are these the effects of an infallible spirit ? since we know it hath been thus in some councils , who dares venture his faith , it hath not been so in others ? who dare be confident , this or that is the meaning of such a decree , when it may be capable of several senses ? was it a sign , that council was infallible , that was afraid to speak out in a case of great consequence and necessity in the church ? the council of trent , i mean , in determining , that due honour be given to images , without assigning what that due honour was , which was the most needful of all to be done . if the decrees of councils were not ambiguous , what mean so many disputes still about them as are in the world ? and when at last , you say , that the councils are infallible when the pope confirms them , you say nothing more then if we should say , that councils are infallible when scripture confirms them . nay , you say nothing near so much ; for all are agreed , that scriptures are infallible , but many among your selves are far from believing , that the pope is infallible . and therefore we are much nearer ending controversies , in saying , councils confirmed by scripture are infallible , than you are in saying , councils confirmed by the pope are so . these things being thus in the general premised , we come now to the particular handling this controversie between his lordship and you . and for the greater clearness of proceeding , he premises some things by way of consideration ; whereof the first is , that all the power an oecumenical council hath to determine , and all the assistance it hath , not to err in that determination , is all from the vniversal body of the church , whose representative it is . for the government of the church being not monarchical , but as christ is head , this principle is inviolable in nature ; every body collective , that represents , receives power and priviledges , from the body which is represented , else a representation might have force without the thing it represents ; which cannot be . so , there is no power in the council , no assistance to it , but what is in and to the church . but withall his lordship adds , that the representative body cannot be so free from errour as the whole church , because in all such assemblies many able and sufficient men being left out , they which are present may miss or misapply that reason and ground upon which the determination is principally to rest . by which means the representative body may err , whereas the represented , by vertue of those members which saw and knew the ground , may hold the principle inviolated . all the answer which you return to this , is , that his supposition of the churches not being monarchical , is confuted already , ( and i say , whatever you have produced is answered already ) and that the power and assistance of general councils cannot possibly be communicated to them by the church , but must proceed from the same fountain now , it did in the apostles time , viz. the direction of the holy ghost ; this spiritual power not being of humane , but divine institution ; and not proceeding so much from the abilities of the persons , as from the co-operation of the holy spirit with them . to which i reply , that all this had need be more then thus barely asserted : it being confessed by your selves ( as his lordship shews ) that a general council is a representative of the whole church , you ought to have shewed us the divine institution of this representative , and the promises made to it under that notion , or else we may still say with his lordship , that all the power and assistance it hath , is by vertue of that body which it represents . but i need not in this urge the arguments of protestants against you ; for in this , as in most other controversies , we have enough from those of your own party to oppose against these affirmations of yours . for albertus pighius not only asserts , but proves , that general councils are not of divine , but humane institution , arising from a dictate of right reason ; that matters of doubt may be better debated by many prudent and experienced persons then by a few . so that as the supream authority for administration of affairs belongs to one , so it is most agreeable to right reason , that debates should be by many , this he proves at large , that nothing but humane reason is the foundation of councils in the church ; for , saith he , in scripturis canonicis nullum de iis verbum est ; nec ex apostolorum institutione , speciale quicquam de illis accepit illa primitiva christi ecclesia . there is not a word of them in scripture , neither did the primitive church receive any particular order from the apostles concerning them : which he from thence proves , because in all the time of the primitive church till the nicene council , there is no mention at all of them . and at that time it did not receive any new revelation concerning the celebrating general councils , but the emperour constantines zeal for the peace of the church was the first cause and original of them . from whence he concludes that they have no supernatural or divine institution , sed prorsus humanam , but altogether humane : for they are , saith he , the invention of constantine sometimes useful , but not at all necessary . this man speaks intelligibly , and not like those who jumble pope and council together to make something infallible between them . for he sayes , it is the better way by far to go immediately to the apostolical see and consult that , as the infallible oracle , in all doubts of faith. and very honestly tells us , that he believes constantine was ignorant of that priviledge of the holy see , when he first instituted general councils . than which nothing could be spoken truer . if you have then nothing more to say for the divine institution of general councils , then what you have acquainted us with , it would be much more wisedom in you to contend with pighius for the popes infallibility , and let that of general councils shift for it self . his lordships second consideration you admit of , viz. that though the act which is hammered out by many together , must needs be perfecter , then that which is but the child of one mans sufficiency ; yet this cannot be infallible , unless it be from some special assistance of the holy ghost . therefore omitting your very impertinent addition to this consideration , viz. so as to make its decrees infallible , ( which is the thing in question ) : we proceed to the third ; which is , that the assistance of the holy ghost is without errour , which ( saith he ) is no question ; and as little that a council hath it . but the doubt that troubles , is , whether all assistance of the holy ghost be afforded in such a high manner , as to cause all the definitions of a council in matters fundamental in the faith , and in remote deductions from it , to be alike infallible . from this last expression you would very subtilly infer contrary to his lordships design , that he granted general councils to be infallible in deductions , as well as fundamentals , but not to be alike infallible : whereas it is plain , his lordship means no more by alike infallible , then , whether the assistance be alike in both to make them infallible . and this you might easily perceive , but it would have prevented your cavil about a graduated infallibility ; which i know none assert but your self . this consideration brings on the main of the battel , in those texts of scripture , which are most insisted on to prove the infallibility of general councils , viz. john . . i will send you the spirit of truth and he shall lead you into all truth . john . . this spirit shall abide with you for ever . matth. . . behold i am with you to the end of the world . matth. . . the founding of the church upon the rock against which the gates of hell shall not prevail . luke . . christs prayer for st. peter , that his faith should not fail . matth. . . where two or three are gathered together in my name , i will be in the midst of them . acts . . it seemed good to the holy ghost , and to us . all which places ( except the two last ) have been already examined as far as concerns any promise of infallibility in the questions concerning the churches and the popes infallibility : and there being no reason at all given , why any infallibility at all is promised by them to the church after the apostles times , it may seem wholly needless to bestow a particular consideration again upon all of them . for it is evident in those places , all your drift and design , is only to prove a promise of infallibility in the church , and to the councils only by vertue of that . but having at large before shewed , that no such thing can be inferred from these or any other places , that which is built upon it , is wholly taken away too . for the only pretence that you have , why councils should be proved hence infallible , is , because the church hath infallibility promised by these texts , which must be very well proved , and much better then you have done , either here , or elsewhere , before the other can be deduced from hence . and yet supposing i should grant , that infallibility was promised to the church , i see no such necessary consequence from thence , that general councils must be infallible : unless you can prove from scripture , that the infallibility of the church is meant of the church representative and not diffusive ; which is a new task which you have not yet undertaken . for it is not enough to say , that the body of the church is bound to believe and profess the doctrine taught by the representative , and therefore the representative must be infallible , unless you could first prove , that there is a necessity of some continued infallible teaching by the church representative : which i despair of ever seeing done . i am so far therefore from thinking as you do , that these texts are sufficiently clear in themselves to prove the infallibility of general councils , that i believe a philosopher might hear them repeated a hundred times over without ever imagining any such thing as a general council , much less concluding thence , that they are infallible . but because you again cavil with another expression of his lordships , in that he saith , that no one of them doth infer , much less inforce infallibility ; from whence you not infer but inforce this consequence , that he was loath to say all of them together did not ; i shall therefore give you his lordships answer from all of them together . which is likewise sufficient for every one of them . and for all the places together , saith he , weigh them with indifferency , and either they speak of the church ( including the apostles ) as all of them do ; and then all grant the voyce of the church is gods voyce divine and infallible . or else they are general unlimited , and appliable to private assemblies as well as general councils , which none grant to be infallible , but some mad enthusiasts . or else they are limited , not simply to all truth , but all necessary to salvation ; in which i shall easily grant a general council cannot err , suffering it self to be led by this spirit of truth in scripture , and not taking upon it to lead both the scripture and the spirit . for , suppose these places or any other did promise assistance even to infallibility , yet they granted it not to every general council , but to the catholick body of the church it self , and if it be in the whole church principally , then is it in a general council but by consequent , as the council represents the whole . and that which belongs to a thing by consequent , doth not otherwise , nor longer , belong unto it , then it consents and cleaves to that , upon which it is a consequent . and therefore a general council hath not this assistance , but as it keeps to the whole church and spouse of christ , whose it is to hear his word and determine by it . and therefore if a general council will go out of the churches way , it may easily go without the churches truth . which words of his , contain so full an answer to all these places together , that till that be taken off there is no necessity at all to descend to the particular places , especially those which are acknowledged by your selves to speak primarily of the churches infallibility . yet for your satisfaction ( more than any intelligent readers ) i shall add somewhat further , to shew the impertinency of the former places , and then consider the force of the two last , which have not yet been handled . . there can be nothing drawn from promises made to the diffusive body , for the benefit of the representative , unless the maker of those promises did institute that representation . therefore , supposing that infallibility were by these promises bestowed upon the catholick church , yet you cannot thence inferr that it belongs to a general council , unless you prove that christ did appoint a general council to represent the church , and in that representation to be infallible . for this infallibility coming meerly by promise , it belongs only to those to whom the promise is made , and in that capacity in which it is made to it . for , spiritual gifts are not bequeathable to heirs , nor can be made over to assigns ; if the church be promised infallibility , she cannot pass away the gift of it to her assigns in a general council , unless that power of devolution be contained in the original grant. for she can give no more then is in her power to bestow ; but this infallibility being out of her disposal , the utmost that can be given to a general council is a power to oblige the church by the acts of it , which falls much short of infallibility . besides , this representation of the church by a general council is a thing not so evident from whence it should come , that from a promise made to one it must necessarily be understood of the other . for , as pighius sayes , it cannot be demonstrated from theological grounds , that a general council which is so far from being the whole church , that it is not a thousandth part of it , should represent the whole church . for either , saith he , it hath this from christ or from the church : but they cannot produce one tittle from scripture , where christ hath conveyed over the power and authority of the whole church to a hundred or two hundred bishops . if they say , it is from the church ; there are two things to be shewed , first , that it is done ; and secondly , that it is de jure or ought to be so done . first , it can never be shewed , that such a thing ever was done by the vniversal church ; for if it were , it must either be by some formal act of the church or by a tacit consent . it could not be by any formal act of the church ; for then there must be some such act of the vniversal church , preceding the being of any general council ; for by that act they receive their commission to appear in behalf of the vniversal church . and this could not be done in a general council , because that is not pretended to be the whole church but only to represent it : and therefore it must have this power to represent the church by something antecedent to its being . else it would only arrogate this power to it self without any act of the church in order to it . now that the vniversal church did ever agree in any such act , is utterly impossible to be demonstrated , either that it could be , or that it was . yet such a delegation to a general council must be supposed in order to its representation of the whole church ; and this delegation must not only be before the first general council , but , for all that i can see , before every one . for how can the church by its act in one age bind the church in all ages succeeding to the acts of those several councils which shall be chosen afterwards ? if it be said , that such a formal act is not necessary , but the tacit consent of the whole church is sufficient for it : then such a consent of the church must be made evident , by which , they did devolve over the power of the whole church to such a representative . and all those must consent in that act whose power the council pretends to have , and so it cannot be sufficient to say , that those who choose bishops for the council do it ; for then they could only represent those who chose them , and so their authority will fall much short of that of the whole church . but suppose such a thing were done by the whole church , of which no footsteps at all appear , we must further enquire by what right or authority this is done , for the authority of the church being given it by christ , it cannot be given from it self without his commission for doing it . which if we stay till it can be produced in this case , we may stay long enough before we see any such infallible representative of the vniversal church . the utmost then , that can be supposed in this case , is , that the parts of the church may voluntarily consent to accept of the decrees of such a council ; and by that voluntary act , or by the supream authority injoyning it , such decrees may become obligatory . but what is this to an infallibility in the council because it represents the whole church ? for neither is there evidence enough for such a representation , neither , if there were , could any priviledge of that nature belong to the representative body , because of any promise made to the diffusive body of the church . . what belongs to the representative body of the church by vertue of a promise made to the diffusive , can in no other sense be understood of the representative , then as it belongs to the diffusive . because no further right can be derived from any then they had themselves . therefore supposing a promise of infallibility made to the church , it is necessary to know in what way and manner that promise belongs to it ; for in no other way and manner can it belong to the council which represents it . if therefore the churches infallibility lyes only in fundamentals , the councils infallibility can extend no further . if the churches infallibility doth not imply , that all the church or the major part should be infallible , but that though the major part err , yet all the church shall not , then neither can it be true of a general council , that all , or the major part should be infallible , but only that there should be no such general council , wherein all the bishops should erre . but then this is utterly destructive to the infallibility of the decrees of general councils , for those must pass by the major part of the votes : which canus , one of the acutest of our adversaries , was sensible of , and grants , that the major part in a general council may erre , and the lesser part hold the truth ; but then , he saith , that the pope is not bound to follow the major part . which is expresly to take away any pretext of infallibility from the decrees of the council , and place it wholly in the pope : and , why may not then the pope and a provincial council be as infallible , as the pope and the lesser part of a general council ? what then do the promises of infallibility to the council signifie , if the major part may definitively erre ? and therefore bellarmin likes not this answer , as being too plain and open , but gives another as destructive to the councils infallibility , as this is . which is , that in case the major part doth resist the better in a general council , as in that of ariminum , and the second at ephesus , yet that it cannot conquer it . how so ? doth it not conquer it when the decrees are passed by the major part ? no , saith he , for these decrees are afterwards made void . very good : but then , i suppose in the council , the major part did conquer , although not after . but by whom are they made void ? by him to whom it belongs to confirm his brethren , saith bellarmin . well , but the skill is , to know who that is in this case , who can reverse the decree of the representative body of the church under the plea of confirming his brethren ? if it be the pope , who reversed the decrees of the council of sirmium , to which the pope subscribed ? and for that of ariminum and selencia , hilary did more to reverse it , than ever the pope did . therefore others say , it is in the churches power to make void the decrees of general councils , as she did the decrees of the arrian councils . if so , then we plainly see , the infallibility doth not lye in the representative , but in the diffusive body of the church still ; if that hath the power to avoid and repeal the decrees of general councils . so that all the infallibility of councils is meerly probationary , and stands to the good liking and consent of the d●ffusive body of the church . by which means the decrees of a provincial council being accepted by the church , are as infallible as of a general . but in all these waies , there is no proper infallibility at all in the major part of a general council , but it wholly lyes either in the pope , or in the diffusive body of the church still . . if these places which mention a promise of infallibility to the church , must imply the infallibility of general councils , as the churches representative , then it will thence follow , that the decrees of general councils are infallible , whether the pope confirm them or no. for the infallibility is not promised at all mediante papâ , but virtute ecclesiae ; for if they be infallible as representing the church , they are infallible , whether there be any pope or no : for the pope doth not make them more represent the church than they did before . and this is very well understood and proved by those , who from these promises to the church , and from that infallibility consequent upon it ( by their adversaries confession ) to a general council , do inferr the councils authority to be above the popes . which is a just and necessary consequence from this assertion , that the priviledges of the vniversal church , are by vertue of its representation in a general council . which doctrine was asserted by the councils of constance , and basil , and by the sorbonne doctors , till their being jesuited of late . who have therefore asserted , that it might be as lawful to call in question the decrees of the council of trent , as of those two councils . and whereas their adversaries object , that this is not de fide : they answer , it is impossible but that it should be de fide , since it is decreed by general councils . for , say they , were the fathers at constance and basil , acted by any other spirit , than those at nicaea , and ephesus ? why may not then the council of trent be opposed as well as them ? for if there be any difference , they had much the advantage . in the council of constance ( say they ) two popes were present , all the cardinals , two patriarchs of constantinople , and antioch , and the emperour himself , and the legats of all christian princes ; and besides all this , it was confirmed by pope martin , and the acts of confirmation extant in the . session . and so the council of basil was begun , according to the decrees of the councils of constance and pisa , and by vertue of the bulls of martin and eugenius ; and the popes legats were presidents in it . so that if general councils be infallible , it must be de fide catholicâ , that their authority is above the pope's : and if so , their infallibility cannot depend upon his confirmation . now , if we search into the grounds on which they build this power of general councils independently on the pope , we shall find they derive it wholly from those places of scripture , which speak so much concerning the church and councils , as is agreed on both sides . and therefore aeneas sylvius ( afterwards pius . ) sayes , that is not the less de fide , because it is contradicted by some , since it is founded on the promises of christ concerning the church . since therefore the pope himself is but filius ecclesiae , and the church is sponsa christi ; they say , it is unreasonable that the son of the church should not be subject to the spouse of christ. if therefore these promises concerning the church , inferr an infallibility in it , and that infallibility be in a general council , as representing the church ; it follows thence , that councils must be in themselves infallible , whether confirmed by the pope or no. and we may see , how little this opinion of infallibility of general councils is like to stand between them , by the answers which are given by those of the other party , who mak●●he popes confirmation necessary to the infallibility of the council . for canus expresly saith , that the council is said to be infallible in no other sense than the church is , i. e. in those things wherein all agreed , and not the major part . bellarmin likes not this ; for , saith he , if the major part of the council erre , the council must of necessity erre ; for that which properly belongs to the council , is , passing judgement in matter of faith , or making decrees : now , if that were not the lawful decree of the council , which is made by the major part , there never could be a lawful decree , for none passes without some dissenting : and therefore he denies that the council doth fully represent the church without the pope . so that on both sides we see , how pregnant these proofs are for the councils infallibility , when one saith , that if they be understood of the church , the councils infallibility doth not want the popes confirmation , the other to make the popes confirmation necessary , denies such an absolute representation of the church in the council . if then the council doth represent the church , it is infallible , although not confirmed by the pope , if it doth not , then the promises made to the church cannot belong to the general council . thus i have shewed you , how far these places concerning ( as you say ) the infallibility of the church , are , from proving the infallibility of general councils . but , though these general places concerning the church , may not so clearly prove the infallibility of general councils , yet , you say , there are some particular places to this purpose . which are , mat. . . and act. . . which not having been handled already , i must follow you more closely in the examination of them . the first place is , mat. . . where two or three are gathered together in my name , there am i in the midst of them . the substance of the argument from this place , his lordship thus repeats from bellarmin . the strength of the argument is not taken from these words alone , but as they are continued with the former , and that the argument is drawn à minori ad majus , from the less to the greater , thus . if two or three gathered in my name , do alwaies obtain that which they ask at gods hands , viz. wisdom and knowledge of those things which are necessary for them : how much more shall all the bishops gathered together in council , alwaies obtain wisdom and knowledge , to judge those things , which belong to the direction of the whole church ? to which his lordship answers , that there is very little strength in these words , either considered alone , being generally interpreted by the fathers , of consent in prayer , or with the argument à minori ad majus , . because , though that argument hold in natural or necessary things , yet not in voluntary or promised things , or things which depend upon their institution . . because it follows not , but where , and so far as , the thing upon which the argument is founded , agrees to the less : now this infallibility doth not belong to the lesser congregation , and therefore cannot be inferred as to the greater . . because it depends upon conditions here supposed of being gathered together in the name of christ , and therefore supposing infallibility promised these conditions here implied , must be known before such a congregation can be known to be infallible . . because christs promise of presence in the midst of them , is only to grant , what he shall find to be fit for them , not infallibly whatsoever they shall think fit to ask for themselves . . because gregory de valentiâ and stapleton confess , that this place doth not properly belong to prove an infallible certainty of any sentence in which more agree in the name of christ , but to the efficacy of consent for obtaining that which more shall pray for in the name of christ , if at least that be for their souls health . for else it would hence follow , that not only the definition of a general council , but even of a provincial ; nay , of two or three bishops gathered together , is valid , and that without the popes consent . the utmost i can make of your reply to these answers , lyes in this , that you grant that primarily and directly our saviour doth not intend that particular infallibility , and this is that which gregory and stapleton assert ; but only that he signified in general , that he would be present with his church , and all faithful people gathered together in his name , so often , and so far , as their necessities required his presence , they duly imploring it . but yet the argument holds for the infallibility of general councils , and not national or provincial , because the necessities of the church require one , and not the other : and that it will follow à minori ad majus , in things promised , as well as natural , where the motive is increased , and neither goodness nor power wanting in the promiser . but all this depends on a false supposition , viz. that there is a necessity of infallibility to continue in the church , and that all persons are bound to believe the decrees of the councils to be the infallible oracles of truth : but we say , neither of these are necessary in the church , and therefore you have no ground to extend this promise of christs presence to the infallibility of councils . for you are not to extend the power and goodness of christ as far as you shall judge fitting , but as far only as he hath promised to extend it . for otherwise it would be far more for the peace and unity of the church , if every particular congregation had this infallibility , than if only general councils had it : because by that means , many disputes about the authority , calling , and proceedings of general councils would be prevented : nay , it might be extended much further , for by this argument from the goodness and power of christ , you might , for all that i can see , inferr with more force , that every true christian should be infallible , and so there be no need of any councils at all . for , whatever argument you can produce , why christ's goodness should extend to make councils infallible , it will much more hold as to the other ; for the peace , and unity of the church would be far better secured this way . if you say that experience shews , christ never intended this by the errours of particular men in all ages : to the same purpose we answer you as to councils , that large experience shews , that when bishops have solemnly met in council , they have been grosly deceived ; as you confess in all the arrian councils . if your argument would have ever held from the power and goodness of christ ; would it not have held at that time , when so great a matter of faith was under debate ? if christ therefore suffered so many bishops so grosly to erre , in a matter of such importance , wherein the church was so highly concerned , how can you inferr from his power and goodness , that he will never suffer general councils to erre . if you answer , that these erred for not observing the conditions requisite in order to christs hearing them , viz. that they were not met in the name of christ , did not come without prejudice , nor rely on divine assistance . i pray take the same answer as to all other councils , that we cannot know that christ hears them , or that they are infallible , till we are assured of their performance of the conditions requisite in order to that infallibility . and when you can assure us , that such a council met together in the name of christ , and came meerly with a desire to find out truth , and relyed wholly on his assistance for it , we do not so much distrust the power and goodness of christ , as to think he will suffer them to be deceived . for we know upon those conditions he will not suffer any good man to erre , much less an assembly of them met in a general council . but here you have the hardest task of all lying upon you , which is , to prove that a general council hath observed all these conditions , without which nothing can be inferred from this place , as to christs being in any sense in the midst of them . the last place mentioned for the infallibility of general councils , is that , act. . . where the apostles say of themselves , and the council held by them ; it seems good to the holy ghost , and to us . and , saith his lordship , they might well say it . for they had infallibly the assistance of the holy ghost , and kept close to his direction . but there is a great deal of difference between them and succeeding councils , who never arrogated this to their definitions , though they presumed of the assistance of the holy ghost ; and though that form might be used , yet they did not assume such an infallibility to themselves , as the apostles had . and therefore it is little less than blasphemy in stapleton , to say , that the decrees of councils are the very oracles of the holy ghost . and , that all councils are not so infallible , as was this of the apostles , nor the causes handled in them , as there they were , is manifest by the ingenuous confession of ferus to that purpose . this is the substance of his lordships answer to this place . which you think to take off by saying , that there 's no essential difference between the certainty of the things determined by the apostles , and those decided by a general council , confirmed by the roman bishop : and though after-councils use not the same expression in terms , yet they do it in effect , by enjoyning the belief of their decisions under the pain of anathema . if this be the meaning of the anathema's of councils , there had need indeed be no great difference between the apostles decrees , and theirs . but this had need be very well proved ; and so it is by you : for you produce several expressions of cyril , athanasius , austin , leo , gregory , and some others ( out of bellarmin ) in which they magnifie the decrees of general councils , calling them a divine oracle , a sentence inspired by the holy ghost , not to be retracted , and some others to the same purpose , by which you vindicate stapleton , and tell us , he said no more than the fathers had done before him . yet all this is far from any vindication of stapleton , or proving your assertion as to the equal certainty of the decrees of councils , and of the apostles . for the ground of all those expressions , and several others of the same nature , was not the supposition of any inherent infallibility in the decrees of general councils , but their great assurance of the truth of that doctrine , which was determined by those first general councils . for although i am far enough from believing the council of trent infallible , yet if that had determined the same points of faith , which were determined in the first four general councils , and nothing else ; i might have said , that the decree of that council was a holy and divine oracle , a sentence inspired by the holy ghost , &c. not that i thought the council in the least infallible , in determining these things ; but that they were of themselves divine truths , which the council determined . and in this sense athanasius might well term the definition of the nicene-council against arius , the word of our lord which endureth for ever ; and constantine stile it a coelestial mandate ; and gregory might reverence the four first councils , as the four gospels ( though bellarmin tells you , that expression must be taken in a qualified sense ) yet all these , and any other of a like nature , i say , import no more than that they were fully assured , the matters decreed by them , were revealed by god in his word , and not that they believed that they became such holy and divine oracles , meerly by the councils definition . for the contrary might be abundantly manifested by many expressions in them quite to another purpose : and if , instead of all the rest , you will but read athanasius and hilary concerning councils , you will find your self strangely deceived , if you believed they ever thought them infallible . what you add afterwards , that it is sufficient that there be a real infallibility , though not like to that of the apostles , will not be sufficient for me , till you can shew me the degrees of infallibility ; for , i will promise you , if you can once prove that councils are really infallible , i shall not stick to say , that they are alike infallible with the apostles . as for your discarding ferus as a prohibited authour , it only shews the great integrity of the man , who spoke too much truth to be born by the tender ears of the roman inquisition . before i had proceeded any further , i had thought ( because of a former promise ) to have looked back to the place , where you speak in vindication of the decretal epistles ; but because you only referr to turrianus his defence of them , i shall only return you an equal courtesie , and referr you to the abundantly sufficient answer to him by david blondel . one would have thought you should have been ashamed of so notorious an imposture as those decretal epistles are ; but we see , what shifts a bad cause puts you upon , that such men as ferus , cassander , erasmus , are under an index expurgatorius , but the decretal epistles must be still justified ; but he that doth not see the reasons of these proceedings , wants a greater index expurgatorius for his brains , than ever they did for their books . we return therefore to our present subject , and having manifested , how far the infallibility of general councils is from being grounded on the veracity of divine promises , as you pretend without ground ; we now proceed to the consent of the church , as to this subject : which his lordship speaks to in the next consideration . which is , that all agree that the church in general can never err from the faith necessary to salvation ; but there is not the like consent that general councils cannot err . whether waldensis asserting , that general councils may err , speak of such councils as are accounted unlawful or no , is not much material ; since , as his lordship sayes , the fathers having to do with so many hereticks , and so many of them opposing church authority , did never in the condemnation of those hereticks utter this proposition , that a general council cannot err . and supposing that no general council had erred in any matter of moment to this day , which will not be found true , yet this would not have followed , that it is therefore infallible and cannot err . and to shew that st. augustin puts a manifest difference between the rules of scripture and the definitions of men , he produceth that noted place in him , wherein he so fully asserts the prerogative of scripture above all the writings of men or definitions of councils : which , because it will be often refer'd to , i have cited at large in the margin , but his lordship gives the sum of it in these words . that whatsoever is found written in scripture , may neither be doubted nor disputed , whether it be true or right . but the letters of bishops may not only be disputed , but corrected by bishops that are more learned and wise then they , or by national councils ; and national councils , by plenary or general . and even plenary councils themselves may be amended , the former by the latter . from whence he inferrs , that it seems it was no news with st. austin , that a general council might err , and therefore be inferiour to the scripture , which may neither be doubted nor disputed , where it affirms . and if it be so with the definition of a council too , where is then the scriptures prerogative ? but his lordship adds , that there is much shifting about this place , but it cannot be wraft off . and therefore undertakes punctually to answer all the evasions of stapleton and bellarmin , who have taken most pains about it . but before you come to particular answers , you are resolved to make your way through them , by a more desperate attempt : which is , to prove that it cannot be st. austins meaning in this place , that general councils may err in their definitions of faith , because then st. austin must contradict himself , because he delivers the contrary in other places . this is indeed to the purpose , if you go through with your undertaking ; but we must examine the places ; the first is l. . c. . de baptism . c. donatist . where you say , he expresly teacheth , that no doubt ought to be made of what is by full decree established in a general council . but here a great doubt may justly be made , whether ever you searched this place or no ; for if you had , you would have had little heart to produce it to this purpose . for st. augustin is there giving an account , why he would not insist upon any humane authorities , but bring certain evidence out of scripture for what he said ; and the reason he gives for it , is , because in the former times of the church before the schism of donatus brake forth , the bishops and particular councils did differ from each other about the question in hand , viz. rebaptizing hereticks , untill that by a general council of the whole world , that which was most soundly held etiam remotis dubitationibus firmaretur , was confirmed the disputes being taken away . the utmost that can be drawn hence , is , that when this controversie was decided by a general council , the disputes were ended among the catholick bishops . but by what arts can you hence draw , that st. austin thought the council infallible in its definitions ? when the business came to be argued in a free council by the dissenting parties , and they more fully understood each other , and agreed upon one sentence , st. austin sayes the former doubts were taken off : that is , the reasons and scriptures produced on the other side satisfied them : but he doth not say , that no doubt is to be made of what is by full decree established in a general council ; but , that no doubts were made after it . but if you say , there could be no agreement unless the councils definition were supposed infallible , you speak that which is contrary to the sense and experience of the world ; and even of that general council where this decree is supposed by bellarmin to be made , viz. the council of nice . for , will you say the council was infallible in deciding the time of keeping easter , because after that council the asian bishops submitted to the custom of other churches ? is there no way imaginable to convince men , but by infallibility ? if there be , their doubts may be taken away by a general council , and yet that council not be supposed infallible . for if st. augustin had meant so , nothing had been more pertinent then to have insisted on the decree of that council ; and yet he there leaves it , and calls all arguments of that nature humane arguments , and therefore saith , ex evangelio profero certa documenta ; i bring certain evidences out of the gospel . which words doubtless he would never have so immediately subjoyned to his former concerning a general council , if he had judged it infallible , or its decrees as certain as the scripture . in your second place l. . c. . there is nothing hath any shadow of pertinency to your purpose ; that which i suppose you may mean , is , l. . c. . where what he said before was decreed by a general council , he after saith , was the judgement of the holy catholick church : from whence you may indeed infer that the catholick church did approve that decree of the council , but how it proves it infallible i cannot understand . your last place is one sufficiently known to be far enough from your purpose , ep. . ad januar. where he saith , in case of indifferent rites , it is insolent madness to oppose the whole church ; but you are an excellent disputant , who can hence infer , that therefore general councils are infallible in their definitions in matters of faith. for any thing then you have brought to the contrary st. austin is far enough from the least danger of contradicting himself . but if you could prove that he were of your mind , that the definitions of councils are infallible as well as the scriptures , never did any man more expresly contradict himself then st. augustin must do in a multitude of plain places , wherein he saith , that no other writing is infallible but the scripture ; that only according to them he judged freely of all other writings ; and that because he could yield an undoubted assent to none but them . that there is no other writing wherein humane infirmities are not discovered but in them ; that men are at liberty to believe or not believe any thing besides the scripture . can any man , who sayes these things be reasonably supposed to assert that the decrees of general councils are as certain as the scripture is ? you see then what little advantage you have gained by this attempt of offering to make st. austin contradict himself , if in this place he should be supposed to assert that general councils may err : which he doth plainly enough to any but those who are resolved not to understand him . this prejudice being therefore removed , we come to the particular evasions of this place ; which you thus sum up , in order to the defence of them . that when he saith , former general councils may be amended by the latter , it is only to be understood in matters of fact , in precepts pertaining to manners and discipline , or by way of more full and clear explication of what had been delivered by former councils . to both these , his lordship offers very just exceptions . to the first , that it is to be understood of precepts of manners and discipline ; he saith , . that bellarmin contradicts himself , because he had said before , that general councils cannot err in precepts of manners : no , ( say you ) this is no contradiction , because these depend much upon circumstances of time , place , person , &c. which varying , it often so falls out , that what at first was prudently judged fit to be done , becomes afterwards unfitting , and in this case one general council may be amended by another , and yet neither charged with errour . but do you suppose the mean while that st. austin spake pertinently to this business , or no ? if he did , he can be understood only of such a precept as that relating to the baptism of hereticks . suppose then one council should decree hereticks to be baptized , and another afterwards correct this , and say , they should not , will you say that neither of these were in an errour ? so that your answer is wholly impertinent to the scope of st. austins discourse . and so his lordship saith , this whole answer is concerning precepts of manners : for st. austin disputes against the errour of st. cyprian followed by the donatists , which was an errour in faith ; namely , that true baptism could not be given by hereticks and such as were out of the church . but you say , st. austin doth not confine his discourse to st. cyprians case only , but by occasion of his , and his councils errour , he layes down general doctrine , touching the different authority of the writings of particular bishops , provincial national and general councils . although i should grant you this , it will make little for your purpose ; for st. austins main design is , to set the authority of scripture far above all these , and that in point of certainty and infallibility ; and this being his main scope , whatsoever he sayes of any of these , it is certain his purpose is to shew that all of them fall short of the sacred scripture , as to our yielding assent to them . for these in the first place are set by themselves , as only being infallible and deserving an undoubted assent to all that is contained in them : which being supposed , he proceeds to shew what the extent is of all other authority besides this . for the writings of bishops , saith he , they are so far from deserving such an assent as we give to the scriptures , that they may be corrected by others , or by national councils ; and national councils , by plenary ; and plenary may be amended , the former by the latter . in all which gradations two things must be repeated 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as running through the whole discourse , which are , . the difference of all these from the scripture in regard of our yielding assent to them ; for that is it , which he begins with , that we are not in the least to doubt , whether any thing contained therein be true or no : and then comes the other in , by way of immediate antithesis ; but , the writings of bishops , &c. and although there be a gradation in all these , yet all of them are therein different from scripture , that whatsoever is found there may neither be doubted nor disputed ; but the writings of bishops may be doubted or disputed of , because they may be corrected by other bishops or councils . and those national councils may be , because they may be corrected by general ; and even these general councils cannot require such an undoubted assent as the scripture doth , because the former may be amended by the latter . so that if you take the scope of s. austin's discourse in this place , whether he speaks generally ; or particularly , nothing can be more evident , than that he puts this difference between the scriptures , and all other writings or councils , that the one may not at all be doubted or disputed of , but the other may : and the common reason of all is , because none are so infallible , but they may be corrected by something besides themselves , which cannot be in any sense said of the scripture . . although saint austin adds that clause , si quid in eis fortè à veritate deviatum est , if they have erred from the truth , only where he speaks of the writings of bishops ; yet the series of his discourse implies , that it should be understood in what follows too : that , as the writings of bishops may be corrected by councils , if they have erred , so national councils may be corrected by general , if they have erred ; and so former general councils by latter on the same supposition still , that they have erred . for , as the errours was supposed to be the ground of correction in the former , it must be likewise of amendment here . and whatever is not so perfect , but that it may be amended , cannot be supposed infallible ; for , if the persons had been infallible , who had made those decrees in general councils , they would have prevented any necessity of further amendments by succeeding councils . so that , take amendment in what sense you will , either for supplying defects , or correcting errours , it is destructive to your pretence , that the decrees of general councils are infallible , and as certain as the scripture . which is so repugnant to the scope of this speech of s. austin , as nothing can be more . your criticism then , from the signification of emendare from menda , and menda from minus , and so importing only the taking away any defect , yields you no relief at all : for that defect which is supposed in general councils , which needs that emendation , doth sufficiently argue , there was no infallible assistance of the spirit of god in the decrees of those councils . for where gods spirit assists infallibly , it leaves no such defects as are necessary to be amended afterwards , by some other council which can pretend to no higher assistance than the other had before . but your critical judgement is not extraordinary , if you will have the signification of words taken from the conjectural etymologies of them , such as this of scaliger is in the place where he corrects varro's etymologies ( at the end of his conjectanea ) but , besides that , all attempts of that nature are but conjectural essayes , it is but an ill way to judge of the use of a word by the etymology of it ; for , what multitudes of words are carried further in their sense , than their originals would bear ? his lordship therefore takes a far surer way to know s. austin's meaning , than running to martinius for the signification of the word menda ; which is , by producing a parallel place in s. austin , where it is taken for to correct , and supposes an evident fault ; aliud quod praecipere jubemur , aliud quod emendare praecipimur ; where emendare is , plainly to amend something amiss , not to supply something defective . so that stapleton's sense of amending by explication of something not fully known , and not by correction of something erroneous , cannot here have place . for , as his lordship well observes the national council , which s. austin did in this dispute speak most of , was not guilty meerly of not fully explaining it self , but of a positive errour , viz. that under s. cyprian , determining that baptism of hereticks was no baptism . and therefore when s. austin speaks of amendment , it is such an amendment as doth suppose errour , and not barely defect . and so the words used before of reprehension and yielding , do both imply more than a bare explanation ; and those which follow after , evince it fully , where s. austin layes down the cautions , whereby such amendments should be made , without sacrilegious pride , or swelling arrogancy , without contention of envy , and in holy humility , in catholick peace , in christian charity . all which words were very needless , if he meant only an explanation of something not fully declared before ; but are very necessary , supposing it to be the amendment of some former errour . all the answer you have , is , that these last words relate not in particular to general councils ( by no means , although they follow them at the heels ) but to the other several subjects , viz. private bishops , provincial and national councils ; which are subject to pride , arrogancy , and contention in their emendations . but , was not s. austin an unhappy man then at expressing himself , that he must needs set those caveats after he had spoken of general councils , which referr to the particulars that went before , without any reference to the immediate antecedents ? for if they do at all respect the proceedings of general councils , ( as doubtless they do , and that most immediately , as appears to any one who reads them ) then they imply still , that this amendment of general councils must be done without pride , arrogance , and envy , and with the greatest humility , and peace , and charity ; which it is hard to conceive why s. austin should add , unless he supposed some errours to be amended in them . nothing remains further for the clearing this place , but only that his lordship mentions that which he calls , the poorest shift of all in bellarmin , viz. that he speaks of unlawful councils : and it is a sign it is so indeed , when you have nothing more to say for it , but only , that it was given ex superabundanti , and with a peradventure . when his lordship concludes , that the popes confirmation to make councils infallible , is a meer trick , and unknown to the ancient church ; you have nothing more to prove it to be grounded on the practice of councils of the church , and of reason , but to referr the reader back to what you have said about the popes supremacy ; and therefore i must do so too , for an answer to what you have said on that subject . the next thing which belongs to this question , is contained in his lordships sixth consideration ; which is , if the definition of a general council be infallible , then the infallibility of it , is either in the conclusion , and in the means that prove it ; or in the conclusion , not the means ; or in the means , not the conclusion . but it is infallible in none of these . not in the first ; for there are divers deliberations in general councils , where the conclusion is catholick , but the means by which they prove it , not infallible . not in the second ; for the conclusion must alwaies follow the nature of the premises , or principles out of which it is deduced ; therefore if those which the council uses , be sometimes uncertain , the conclusion cannot be infallible . not in the third ; for the conclusion cannot but be true and necessary , if the means be so . your answer is , that it is infallible in the conclusion , that is , in the doctrine defined , though it be not infallible in the means , or arguments upon which it proceeded to the definition . and your reason is , because one is necessary for the government of the church , but the other is not ; for , deus non deficit in necessariis , nec redundat in superfluis . you mean , it is necessary for you to assert it , whether it hath any foundation in reason or no : for you have not yet proved , that the infallibility of general councils is necessary for the churches government , and therefore cannot thence inferr so great an absurdity as this ; that , where all the premises are fallible and uncertain , yet the conclusion may be prophetical and infallible . but so involved and obscure are your discourses on this subject , that while you pretend a general council is seeing visions , one might easily believe you were dreaming dreams . for , i pray , speak out , and tell us , what you mean by councils being fallible in the use of means , and yet infallible in the conclusion drawn from those premises , which she was fallible in the deducing the conclusion from ? for the deducing the conclusion , is in the use of the means ; therefore how is it possible that the council should be infallible in the conclusion , when it was fallible in making that conclusion ? but it may be i do not yet fully apprehend what you would have , neither i doubt do you . for you would fain be infallible in the conclusion too , without so much as truth in the premises . but i shall attempt to make you speak intelligibly ; it must be one of these two things you mean , when you say , councils are infallible in the conclusion , either that they are infallible in deducing the conclusion , or in assenting to the conclusion . if infallible in the deducing the conclusion , then it must be infallible in the use of the means ; for , unless it doth infallibly discern the connexion of the premises , it is impossible it should be infallible in drawing the conclusion from them . so that it is non-sense , and a contradiction to say , that a council is infallible in the drawing a conclusion , and not infallible in the use of the means : for , it is to say , it is infallible , and not infallible at the same time , and about the same thing , and in the same manner . for , what is drawing a conclusion , but a discerning that truth which results from the connexion of the premises together ? for that which is concluded , hath all its truth depending upon the evidence of the premises , otherwise it is a simple proposition , and not a conclusion . if you had then said , that the spirit of god did immediately reveal to the council the truth of what was to be decreed ; you had spoken that which might have been understood , though not believed ; but this you durst not say , for fear of the charge of enthusiasms , and new revelations : but when you say , the council must use means , and make syllogisms , as other fallible creatures do , but then it is infallible in the drawing the conclusion from the premises ( though it be fallible in the connexion of those premises ) is an unparalleld piece of profound non-sense . for , suppose the matter the council was to determine , was the popes infallibility ; in order to the proving this , you say , the council must use all arguments tending to prove it ; there comes in christ's prayer for s. peter , that his faith should not fail , and that this must be extended to his successors , thence the argument is formed . whomsoever christ prayed for , that his faith should not fail , is infallible ; but christ prayed for the pope , that his faith should not fail ; therefore he is infallible . now you say , the council is fallible in the use of the means for this conclusion , i. e. it may not infallibly believe the truth of the major or minor proposition , but yet it may infallibly deduce thence the conclusion , though all the strength of the conclusion depends upon the truth of the premises . you must therefore either assert that the decrees of councils are immediately revealed as divine oracl●s , or else that they are fallible conclusions drawn from fallible premises . and , were it not for a little shame , because of your charging others with immediate revelations , i doubt not but you would assert the former ; which you must of necessity do , if you will maintain the infallibility of general councils : for if there be any infirmity in the use of the premises , it must of necessity be in the conclusion too . but , suppose you mean an infallible assent to the matter of the conclusion , though it be fallibly deduced , you are as far to seek as ever ; for , whereon must that assent be grounded ? it must be either upon the truth of the premises , or something immediately revealed : if on the truth of the premises , the assent can be no stronger than the grounds are on which it is built ; if on something revealed , it must needs be still an immediate revelation . but i forget my self all this while , to urge you thus with absurdities consequent from reason ; for , in answer to his lordship , you grant , that it is a thing altogether unknown in nature , and art too , that fallible principles can either as father or mother , beget or bring forth an infallible conclusion ; for , when his lordship had objected this , you return him this answer , that this is a false supposition of the bishop , for the conclusion is not so much the child of those premises ( i. e. it is not the conclusion ) as the fruit of the holy ghost , directing and guiding the council , to produce an infallible conclusion , whatever the premises be ( true , or false , certain , or uncertain , all is a case . ) this is necessary for the peace and unity of the church ( to believe contradictions ) and therefore not to be denied , unless an impossibility be shewed therein . ( i doubt , believing contradictions is accounted no impossibility with you . ) but , i hope , no man will attaque gods omnipotency , and deprive him of the power of doing this . is it come to that at last ? whatever you assert that is repugnant to the common reason of mankind , and involves contradictions in it , that you call for gods omnipotency to help you in . thus transubstantiation must be believed , because god is omnipotent ; and that men may believe any thing , though not grounded on scripture , and repugnant to reason , because god is omnipotent . we acknowledge god's omnipotency , as much as you , but we dare not put it to such servile uses , to make good any absurd imaginations of our brains . if you had said , it was possible , for god to enlighten the minds of the bishops in a general council , either to discern infallibly the truth of the premises , or immediately to reveal the truth of the conclusion , you had spoken intelligible falshoods . but to say , that god permits them to be fallible in the use of the means , and in drawing the conclusion from them ; but to be infallible in the conclusion it self , without any immediate revelation , and then to challenge gods omnipotency for it : i know not whether it be a greater dishonour to god , or reproach to humane understanding . and if such incongruities as these are , do not discover that you are miserably hampered , as his lordship saith , in this argument , i know not what will. but we must proceed to discover more of them ; two things his lordship very rationally objects against stapletons assertion , that the council is discursive in the use of the means , but prophetical in delivering the conclusion . . that since this is not according to principles of nature and reason , there must be some supernatural authority , which must deliver this truth ( which , saith he , must be the scripture . ) for if you fly to immediate revelations ; the enthusiasm must be yours . but the scriptures which are brought , in the very exposition of all the primitive church , neither say it , nor enforce it . therefore scripture warrants not your prophecy in the conclusion . neither can the tradition : produce one father , who sayes , this is an vniversal tradition of the church , that her definitions in a general council are prophetical , and by immediate revelation : produce any one father that sayes it of his own authority , that he thinks so . to all this you very gravely say nothing ; and we can shrewdly guess at the reason of it . . his lordship proves , that it is a repugnancy to say , that the council is prophetical in the conclusion , and discursive in the use of the means ; for no prophet , in that which he delivered from god as infallible truth , was ever discursive at all in the use of the means ; nay ( saith he ) make it but probable in the ordinary course of prophecy , and i hope you go no higher , nor will i offer at gods absolute power ( but his lordship was deceived in you , for you run to gods omnipotency ) that that which is discursive in the means , can be prophetical in the conclusion , and you shall be my great apollo for ever . and this , he shews , is contrary to what your own authours deliver concerning the nature and kinds of prophecy , and that none of them were by discourse . to this you answer , that both stapleton and you deny that the church is simply prophetical , either in the premises or conclusion , but rather the quite contrary ; and that by the definition of the councils being prophetical in an analogical sense , no more is meant but that by vertue of divine assistance and direction , such a conclusion or definition , in regard of precise verity , is as infallibly true and certain , as if it were a prophecy . but if you had a mind that we should understand , or believe what you say , why do not you come more out of the clouds , and shew us the difference between that which is simply prophetical , and that which is only analogically so , but as infallibly true and certain as the other ? but , that you may no longer blind the world with such insignificant discourses , i shall put you upon speaking more distinctly , by enquiring into those waies , whereby god may be supposed supernaturally to work upon the minds of men , in order to the discovery of truth . these two waies we may conceive that god may make known truth to the minds of men . . by the immediate discovery of something , which could not otherwise be known but by immediate revelation : and of this nature were all those future events which were revealed to the prophets , and this i suppose you call simply prophetical ; so likewise all those doctrines which are of pure revelation , i. e. such as could never have been known , unless god had revealed them : of which kind there are several in the gospel . . god may discover such things to the minds of men , which , though they might otherwise be known , yet not with that degree of certainty , as by this immediate assistance of gods spirit : now this i suppose , is that you call analogically prophetical , which you assert to differ nothing at all from prophecy , in regard of infallible truth and certainty , being by vertue of divine assistance and direction . and this you say a general council hath , but not the former . now to convince you of the absurdity of your assertions , i shall shew you these two things . . that this cannot be without an imm●diate revelation . . that being so , it cannot be discursive , as you say it is in the use of the means . . that this cannot be without an immediate revelation : for which i need nothing but your own assertions , viz. that this is a higher discovery of truth , than nature can ever attain to , or ordinary grace ; and that it is such as obliges all men to an internal assent to it , when it is declared . now i shall desire you , or any of your party , to tell me , what difference there is between this , and the inspiration which the apostles had in writing the books of scripture . i mean not such as contain prophesies in them , but those which deliver to us the gospel of christ : as for instance , in s. john's gospel , he doth not pretend to deliver any thing which was not revealed before , but to give an account of the doctrine and life of christ. and so that inspiration was not simply prophetical , as in writing the prophecies in the apocalyps , but analogically so , in that such an assistance of gods spirit , as made what he writ , to be as infallibly true and certain , as if it were a prophecy , which are your own words concerning the infallibility of councils . shew us therefore any rational difference between this kind of infallibility , and that inspiration by which the books of scripture are written . if you say , the one was immediate and the other not , you beg the question : for i am proving that what you assert , doth necessarily imply , that it is as immediate as that which the apostles had . nay i will go yet further , and say it is as immediate as that which the apostles themselves had in council . for when they said , it seemed good to the holy ghost and to us , can any thing more possibly be understood , then that the spirit of god did so far assist their minds , that they should not err in their definitions ? and therefore when of late you are grown ( forsooth ) somewhat jealous of the word infallibility , and you give us a grave advertisement at the end of your preface , that you do not mean by it an intrinsecal unerring power in all things , in those whom you account infallible , but only that they never have erred , nor shall err in definitions of faith ; you do not at all advantage your selves by it . for none of your considerate adversaries do charge you so much with usurping gods incommunicable attribute of infallibility , ( which is thereby avoided because you pretend to derive it from him ) but that you challenge the same infallibility which the apostles had . and so must of necessity assert as much of divine enthusiasm and immediate revelation in your church , as any of the apostles themselves had . for what ever they had , came by vertue of christs promise , and that is all you say for the churches infallibility : but that doth no more take it off from being an immediate revelation in the church , then it did in the apostles . if you say , the church is only secured that it neither hath erred , nor can err in definitions of faith , what more had the apostles then this ? and if this in them did require an immediate inspiration , certainly it must do so in the church too . but you say , neither church nor council do publish immediate revelations , nor create any new articles of faith , but only declare and unfold by their definitions , that doctrine , which christ and his apostles in some manner first delivered . but all this , supposing it true , doth not hinder , but the councils infallibility must imply an immediate revelation on the part of the council , though not of the doctrine decreed by them . for granting the decrees of the council are no new articles of faith ( which is yet contrary to your own principles ; for if by the definitions of councils that may be de fide which was not before , then the councils do make new articles of faith , though not new doctrines ) i. e. that the matter of them in some manner was before revealed , yet since you say the council in declaring them , hath an infallibility , equal to prophecy , it must be by immediate inspiration . for , hath the council greater certainty , and higher assistance then any ordinary believer hath or not ? if not , it can be no more infallible then an ordinary believer ; if it hath , it must be immediate , because it hath a higher degree of certainty , then can be attained by the use of means . and to say this , as you do expresly , when you assert the council fallible in the use of means , but infallible in the conclusion , is a most palpable contradiction . for , it is to assert a certainty beyond and above the use of means , and yet not immediate . but here lyes your perpetual mistake , as though nothing could be an immediate revelation , but what is a revelation of some doctrine never revealed before : whereas if there be a further explanation of that doctrine in as infallible a manner as the apostles at first revealed it , that explanation is by as immediate a revelation , as the first discovery of it . as is clear in the council of the apostles , for i hope you will not deny , but the non-obligation of the ceremonial law was in some manner revealed to them before ; and yet i hope you will not say , but the apostles had an immediate revelation as to what they decreed in that council . it is very plain therefore , that when you say , general councils neither have erred nor can err in their definitions , they usurp as great a priviledge thereby as ever the apostles had , and in order to it must have as immediate an inspiration . for , never was there any such infallibility , either in the prophets or apostles , as did suppose an absolute impossibility of errour ; but it was wholly hypothetical in case of divine assistance , which hindred them from any capacity of erring so long as that continued with them and no longer . for , inspiration was no permanent habit , but a transient act in them ; and that being removed , they were lyable to errours as well as others ; from whence it follows , that where revelations were most immediate , they did no more then what you assume to your church , viz. preserve them from actual errour in declaring gods will. so that nothing can be more evident then that you challenge as great an infallibility , and as immediate assistance of gods spirit in councils as ever the prophets and apostles had . and therefore that divine was in the right , of whom canus speaks , who asserted , that since general councils were infallible , their definitions ought to be equalled with the scriptures themselves . and although canus and others dislike this , it is rather because of the odium which would follow it , than for any just reason they give , why it should not follow . for they not only suppose as great a certainty or infallibility in the decrees of both , but an equal obligation to internal assent in those to whom they are declared . which doth further prove , that the revelation must be immediate : for if by vertue of those definitions , we are obliged to assent to the doctrines contained in them as infallibly true , there must be an immediate divine authority which must command our assent . for nothing short of that can oblige us to believe any thing as of divine revelation ; now councils require , that we must believe their definitions to be divine truths , though men were not obliged to believe them to be so , before those definitions . for that is your express doctrine , that though the matters decreed in councils were in some manner revealed before , yet not so as to oblige all men with an explicite assent to believe them ; but after the definitions of councils they are bound to do it . so that though there be not an object newly revealed , yet there ariseth a new obligation to internal assent ; which obligation cannot come but from immediate divine authority . if you say , the obligation comes not simply by vertue of the councils definitions , but by a command extant in scripture , whereby all are bound to give this assent to the decrees of councils ; i then say , we must be excused from it , till you have discharged this new obligation upon your self , by producing some express testimony of scripture to that purpose : which is , i think , sufficient to keep our minds at liberty from this internal assent to the definitions of general councils by vertue of any infallibility in them . and thus having more at large considered the nature of this infallibility which you challenge to general councils , and having shewed that it implyes as immediate a revelation as the apostles had ; the second thing is sufficiently demonstrated , that this infallibility cannot suppose discursiveness with fallibility in the use of the means , because these two are repugnant to each other . the next thing to be considered , is , stapletons argument , why councils must be prophetical in the conclusion ; because that which is determined by the church is matter of faith , and not of knowledge , and the assent required else would not be an assent of faith , but an habit of knowledge . to which his lordship answers , that he sees no inconvenience in it , if it be granted ; for one and the same conclusion may be faith to the believer , that cannot prove ; and knowledge to the learned , that can . which he further explains thus : some supernatural principles which reason cannot demonstrate simply , must be supposed in order to faith ; but , these principles being owned , reason being thereby inlightned , that may serve to convert or convince philosophers , and the great men of reason in the very point of faith where it is at the highest . this he brings down to the business of councils ; as to which , he saith , that the first immediate , fundamental points of faith , as they cannot be proved simply by reason , so neither need they be determined by any council , nor ever were they attempted , they are so plain set down in scripture . if about the sense and true meaning of these , or necessary deduction out of the prime articles of faith , general councils determine any thing , as they have done at nice and the rest ; there is no inconvenience , that one and the same canon of the council should be believed as it reflects upon the articles and grounds indemonstrable ; and yet known to the learned , by the means and proof , by which that deduction is vouched and made good . and again the conclusion of a council , suppose that in nice about the consubstantiality of christ with the father , in it self considered , is indemonstrable by reason ; there ( saith he ) i believe , and assent in faith : but the same conclusion if you give me the ground of scripture and the creed ( for somewhat must be supposed in all whether faith or knowledge ) is demonstrable by natural reason against any arrian in the world . so that he concludes , the weaker sort of christians may assent by faith , where the more learned may build it on reason , the principles of faith being supposed . this is the substance of his lordships discourse . in answer to which , you tell us , that the bishop seems to broach a new doctrine , that the assent of faith may be an habit of knowledge . but surely ( say you ) divine faith is according to the apostle , heb. . an argument of things which do not appear , viz. by the same means , by which we give this assent of faith : otherwise our faith would not be free and meritorious . an answer i must needs say , hugely suitable to your principles , who are most concerned of all men to set reason at a distance from faith ; and so you do sufficiently in this discourse of it . for it is no easie matter to understand what you mean , but that is not to be wondered at , since you make obscurity so necessary to faith. divine faith is ( you say ) an argument of things which do not appear , viz. by the same means , by which we give this assent of faith. do you mean that the objects of faith do not appear ? or that the reason of believing doth not ? if only the former , which is all the apostle means ; that is nothing to your purpose , for we are not enquiring , whether men may not believe the things which are not seen , but , whether the assent of faith may not be consistent with reason : which i am so far from thinking any strange doctrine , that i cannot see how there can be an assent of faith without reason . and they must be such great meriters at gods hands , as you are , who must think to oblige him with believing what you cannot understand , or see any ground in reason for . for , assent being an act of the mind cannot be elicited without sufficient reason , perswading the mind to it ; or else , it is so far from being free , and as you ( who are so loath to be beholding to god ) call it , meritorious , that it is brutish and irrational . not that there are demonstrations to be expected for every thing we believe , but there must be sufficient reason for the mind to build its assent upon , and that reason is evidence , and that evidence destroyes that obscurity which you make necessary to faith. evidence , i say , not of the object , but of the reason and obligation to assent . when you say , that faith , as faith , cannot be knowledge , his lordship grants it ; but yet it doth not thence follow , that what may be believed by one may not be known by another : and though christ ( as you add ) did not set up a school of knowledge but of faith , yet he did not set up a school of blind implicite faith , but such a one as consists of a rational and discursive act of the mind . you must not therefore expect that we should believe the definitions of councils because they pretend to be infallible , but you must first convince our reasons that they are so , and then we shall assent to them . but you have very well contrived your business , to have an obscure , implicite faith , for such doctrines which are so far from any evidence of reason . chap. ii. of the use and authority of general councils . the denying the infallibility of general councils takes not away their use and authority . of the submission due to them by all particular persons . how far external obedience is required in case they err . no violent opposition to be made against them . rare inconveniences hinder not the effect of a just power . it cannot rationally be supposed , that such general councils as are here meant should often or dangerously err . the true notion of a general council explained . the freedom requisite in the proceedings of it . the rule it must judge by . great difference between external obedience , and internal assent to the decrees of councils . this latter unites men in errour , not the former . as great uncertainties supposing general councils infallible as not . not so great certainty requisite for submission as faith. whether the romanists doctrine of the infallibility of councils , or ours , tend more to the churches peace ? st. austin explained . the keyes according to him given to the church . no unremediable inconvenience , supposing a general councilerr . but errours in faith are so , supposing them infallible when they are not . the church hath power to reverse the decrees of general councils . the power of councils not by divine institution . the unreasonableness of making the infallibility of councils depend on the popes confirmation . no consent among the romanists about the subject of infallibility , whether in pope or council . no evidence from scripture , reason , or antiquity , for the popes personal infallibility . the first question being thus dispatched , i now come to the second , which is , of what vse and authority general councils are in the church , supposing them not infallible ? and here again two things are to be examined ; first , how far general councils are to be submitted to . secondly , whether our opinion or yours tend more to the peace of the church ; for both these his lordship handles distinctly , and so shall we . for the first , nothing is more necessary then throughly to understand his lordships meaning , which he most fully delivers in these words . general councils lawfully called and ordered and lawfully proceeding , are a great and awful representation , and cannot err in matters of faith , keeping themselves to gods rule , and not attempting to make a new one of their own ; and are with all submission to be observed by every christian , where scripture , or evident demonstration , comes not against them . two things you mainly object against this opinion . . that in case such a council err , it tends only to unite men in errour . . who shall be judge of all those conditions implyed in the councils proceedings ? to these two , all that i can find material scattered up and down in your discourse on this subject , may be reduced . for the first , we must consider the occasion of his lordships entrance into this subject concerning general councils , how far they may err , or not , which he saith , is a question of great consequence in the church of god. for to say they cannot err , leaves the church not only without remedy against an errour once determin'd ; but also without sense that it may need a remedy , and so without care to seek it , which is the misery of the church of rome at this day . to say they can err , seems to expose the members of the church to an uncertainty and wavering in the faith , to make unquiet spirits not only to disrespect former councils of the church , but also to slight and contemn whatsoever they may now determine . so that , great inconveniencies appearing on both sides , his lordship endeavours to steer his course so as not to dash on the rocks of either side , by betraying the churches faith in asserting their infallibility , or the churches peace by acknowledging them fallible . but as he could not see any reason to believe them infallible , so neither could he see any necessity that the churches peace should be broken , supposing them not to be so . and the most obvious objection being , if a general council be fallible , what is to be done in case it should err ? for that , he propounds this expedient , that the determination of a general council erring was to stand in force , and to have external obedience at the least yielded to it , till evidence of scripture , or a demonstration to the contrary made the errour appear ; and untill thereupon another council of equal authority did reverse it . and he after explains what he means by this external obedience , viz. that which consists in silence , patience , and forbearance yielded to it : which he builds on this reason , that controversies arising in the church must have some end or they 'l tear all in sunder : therefore supposing a general council should err , and an erring decree be by the law it self invalid , i would have it , ( saith he ) wisely considered again ( supposing the council not to err in fundamental verity ) whether it be not fit to allow a general council that honour and priviledge , which all other great courts have ; namely that there be a declaration of the invalidity of its decrees , as well as of the laws of other courts , before private men can take liberty to refuse obedience . therefore he concludes , that this seems most fit and necessary for the peace of christendom , unless in case the errour be manifest and intolerable , or that the whole church upon peaceable and just complaint of this errour neglect or refuse to call a council to examine it : and there come in national and provincial councils to reform for themselves . these words contain the full account of his lordships opinion , which you charge with so many interclashings and inconveniences . the first of which is , that it tends only to oblige all the members of the church to an vnity in errour against scripture and demonstration , during their whole lives , or rather to the worlds end ; since such an utopian rectifying council as the bishop here fancies , is morally impossible ever to be had ; and therefore you call it a strange ( not not say an impious ) doctrine , advanced without authority of gods word , or antiquity , nay contrary to all solid reason . this being a charge of the highest nature and manag'd with such unmeasurable confidence , we must somewhat further enquire into the grounds of his lordships opinion , to see whether it be guilty of these crimes or no. there are three things therefore must be cleared in order to his lordships vindication . . the design of his discourse . . the suppositions he makes as to the proceedings of the council . . the obligation of its decrees supposing that it should err . . the design of his discourse is to be considered ; which is to remedy a supposable inconvenience , and to provide for the churches peace . for the first question in debate was , whether a general council might err , or no. in which his lordship gives sufficient evidence from scripture , antiquity , and reason , that it might . but then here comes an inconvenience to be removed ; for his adversary objects , what are we then nearer to vnity after a council hath determin'd , supposing it may err ? to this his lordship suits his answer : wherein we ought to consider , that the inconvenience objected is , on his lordships suppositions , one of the rara contingentia ; and such a one ought not to destroy a principle of government in all other cases useful and necessary . for there cannot possibly be any way thought of for peace and government , but there may be a supposition made of some notable inconvenience ; but that not being necessary , nor immediately consequent upon it , but something which may happen and far more probably may not , it ought not to hinder the obtaining of that , which is generally both useful and necessary . to give you a parallel case to this : it is granted on all hands that the civil authority of a nation is fallible , and therefore we may suppose it actually to err , and that so far as to bind men by law to something in it self unlawful . will you say now , that the intent of civil authority is to bind men necessarily to sin ? i hope , you will not : but by this you may easily see the fallacy of your arguing against his lordship ; for it is an inconvenience indeed supposable , but not at all necessary ; if he had said indeed , that general councils must necessarily err , your argument had been strong against him ; but as it is , it hath no more force against his assertion , then the supposition before made hath against civil authority . for that case may be easily put , that such a law may pass ; but , doth this hinder men from their obligation to duty and submission to a just authority ? or , will you have men presently to renounce obedience , and to repeal such a law themselves , and not rather in all wayes of duty and reverence to authority make known their just complaints and desire a redress by the hands of supream authority ? and this is all which his lordship aims at , that in case a general council should err ( which is not easily imaginable upon his suppositions ) it tends more to the churches peace for private men not to oppose the decrees of it , but to endeavour that another general council be called to repeal it , and till then to preserve the churches peace , supposing the errour not manifest or intolerable . in this case then there are two inconveniences put : the one of them is , that when a council is supposed to err , every particular man may be at liberty to oppose the decrees of it , and so put the church into confusion ; the other is , that though private men may know it to be an errour , yet they should be patient till the church by another council may repeal it : now these two inconveniences being laid together , the question is , which is the greater ? his lordship with a great deal of reason judges the former to be : because in the latter case it is only a silencing of some less necessary truth for some time ; but in the other it is an exposing the church to the fury of mens turbulent spirits . but that which shews the unreasonableness of your objection , that this is the way to bind the church to an union in errour , is , that this doth not necessarily follow from his lordships opinion , but is only a case supposable : and no rare inconvenience ought to prejudice a general good : and the peace of the church in such a case ought to be preferred before private mens satisfaction . but this will further appear , if we consider , secondly , the suppositions his lordship makes ; for by that we shall see , how rarely incident this case is : for , i hope , the supposing that a general council may erre , doth not suppose that it must necessarily erre ; and granting those things which are supposed by him , it is a rare case that it should erre . for these things are by him supposed . . that it must be a council lawfully called and ordered ; and so , not such councils as that of trent was , or any like it ; wherein the pope gives only a general summons , and that it must be called a general council on that account , how few bishops soever appear in it , nay , though the far greatest part of the christian world be excluded from it : but it must be such a council as may be acknowledged to be general , by the general consent of the christian world . for that we would make our judge in the case ; as it was in the four first general councils . not that we would stand upon bishops being actually present from every particular church , but that such a number be present from the greatest churches , as may make it not be suspected to be meerly a faction , packed together for the interess of some potent prelate ; but that they do so indifferently meet from all parts , that there may be no just ground of suspicion , that they design any thing but the common good of the christian world . and therefore we acknowledge the first four general councils to be truly such , in our present sense ; neither do we quarrel at them , because so few bishops were present , who lived out of the roman empire ; for , supposing the church at the same freedom from particular interesses that it was then , and so great a number of bishops assembled together , we look on it to be so great and awful a representation , that its determinations ought not to be opposed by any factious or turbulent spirits . and in case some bishops be not present from some churches , whether eastern or western , yet if upon the publishing those decrees , they be universally accepted , that doth , ex post-facto , make the council truly occumenical . by this you see , what we mean by a general council . and , for the calling of it ; though we say , it should be by the consent of the chief patriarchs , yet the right and custom of the ancient church , clearly carries it , that it ought to be summoned by the authority of christian princes : for , nothing can be more evident to such , who will not shut their eyes against the clearest evidence , than that the first general councils ( before the pope had got the better of the emperours ) were summoned by the emperours command and authority ; and since the division of the empire into so many kingdoms and principalities , the consent of christian princes is necessary on the same grounds . neither ought it only to be a general council , and lawfully called , but lawfully ordered too , viz. that no prelate challenge himself such a presidency not in , but over the council , that his instructions must be looked on as the only chart they must steer their course by ; and that nothing be debated , but proponentibus legatis , as it was at trent : for these things take away utterly that freedom which is necessary for a general council . and therefore his lordship justly requires , . that the council do proceed lawfully ; which it cannot do , if it be over-awed , as the second ephesine was by dioscorus and his party ; or if practices be used , as at ariminum : but there must be the greatest freedom in debates , no canvasing for votes , but every one suffered to deliver his judgement , without prejudice or partiality , that those who give their judegements , deliver their reasons before , and not only appear in pontificalibus , to give their placet . that the bishops present , be men of unquestionable abilities , and generally presumed to be well acquainted with the matters to be debated there : for otherwise nothing would be more easie , than for the more subtil men , under ambiguous expressions , and fair pretences to bring over a great number of the rest to them , who want either judgement or learning enough to discern their designs . and this is supposed to be the case of the council at ariminum , where the occidental bishops , for want of learning were over-reached by the subtilty of the arrian party . . his lordship supposes , that this council keeps it self to gods rule , and not attempt to make a new one of their own : for in so doing they commit an errour in the first concoction , which will be incorrigible afterwards . and this is not only reasonable , but just and necessary , because nothing can be a rule of faith , but what is of immediate divine revelation ; and this hath been the practice of the first general councils , which never owned or proceeded by any other rule of faith but this . these things being supposed , may we not justly say , that an erring determination of such a council so proceeding , is a rare case ? since we believe , that god will not deny to any particular person ( who doth sincerely seek it ) the knowledge of his truth , much less may we think he will do it to such an awful representation of the church , when assembled together purposely for finding out that truth , which may be of so great consequence to the christian world . for both the truth of gods promises , the goodness of god to his people , and his peculiar care of his church , seem highly concerned , that such a council should not be guilty of any notorious errour . but , because we deny not , but such a council is fallible , therefore we grant the case may be put , that such a council may erre ; and the question is , what is to be done then ? whether every particular person may oppose such a determination , or submit till another council reverse the decrees of it . his lordship asserts the latter ; and so we come to the effect of such an erring decree , which was the third thing to be spoken to . as to which , these things must be considered , . that he doth not assert , that men are bound to believe the truth of that decree , but not openly to oppose it . for so he speaks expresly of external obedience , and at least so far as it consists in silence , patience , and forbearance yielded to it . and therefore you are greatly deceived , when with such confidence you assert , that this obliges all the members of the church to unity in errour ; for that is only consequent upon your principle , that the decrees of general councils are to be believed by an internal assent : for this indeed would necessarily oblige them to unity in errour ; but the most that is consequent on his lordships opinion , is , that in such cases wherein a general council hath erred , men ought rather to be silent for a time as to some truth , than to break the churches peace . in the mean time he doth not deny , but that men may be bound to follow their own judgements in the discovery of truth ; nay , and they may use all means consistent with the churches peace , to promote that truth ; for he allows that just complaints may be made to the church for reversing the decrees of the former council , and this cannot be without discovering the errour of that council . and i hope this liberty of dissent and just complaint , is sufficient to keep all the members of the church from being united in errour . and , i pray sir , what cause is there now for such hideous out-cryes , that this is such a strange and impious doctrine , against scripture , antiquity , and solid reason , which appears , for all that i can see , very just and reasonable , taking it in the way which he explains himself in . but , whereas you object , that this will keep men in errour to the worlds end , because such a council is morally impossible ; it is easie to shew you , that if the rectifying council be impossible ; the general erring council is equally impossible ; therefore there is no danger coming that way neither . and that such general councils are grown such morally impossible things , we may in a great measure thank your church for it , which hates as much such a true rectifying council ( as you call it ) as the court of rome does a thorow reformation . for , all your design is , to perswade men , that those only are general councils , which have the popes summons , and wherein he rules , and , in effect , does all ; and to perswade men to believe the decrees of such councils , is the most effectual way in the world to unite men in the belief of errours to the worlds end . for , as long as the popes interest can carry it , to be sure , all rectifying councils , shall be ( as you say ) vtopian too ; for he will prevent , if possible , their ever appearing in europe . therefore all this discourse of his lordship doth suppose such a state of the church , as that was in the time of the nicene councils , and after ; when there might be a liberty of calling such councils , that in case one errs , another might be summoned to reverse it . but this is not to be expected in faece romuli , in this state of the christian world , that there should be such a general council so called , and so proceeding as he supposes , and therefore there is no such danger of being united in errour , by vertue of its decrees ; but if the state of things would bear such a council so decreeing , we might as well think it would bear another to reverse it , if need were , and then his lordships supposition would come to act , that in the interstice of those councils , private men ought not to oppose the decrees of the former , but patiently wait till the latter reverse them . but , as things are now in the christian world , his lordship doth not suppose that any council hath such a power to oblige , because it calls it self a general council ; but a truly general council being , as you say , morally impossible , nothing is left but that the church reform it self by parts , and wait to give an account of its proceedings therein , till such a general council as we before described , be assembled in the christian world . thus we see , how vain and empty your first objection is , that from his lordships opinion , it would follow , that the church must be united in errour , which is only the direct consequent of your own assertion , that men are bound to believe the decrees of those you call general councils to be infallible . your next great objection is , that this doctrine exposes all to uncertainties ; for , who shall be judge , whether it be a lawful council , and proceeds lawfully ? whether the errours be fundamental and intolerable or no ? whether there be scripture and demonstration against them or no ? for , if every man be judge , there can be no such submission to any general council . this is the force of the many words , which , in several places , you spend upon this subject ; and therefore i shall consider them together . i answer therefore , . in general , if this be so intolerable an inconvenience , it is unavoidable upon your own principles : and therefore it is unreasonable to object that to another , which you cannot quit your self of . for you say , that the infallibility of general councils confirmed by the pope , is the best way to end controversies ; but there is not one term in the main proposition , but is liable to the same uncertainty which you here object to his lordship ; for , . you do not say , that all councils are infallible , but only general councils , who then shall be judge , whether the council you would have me believe , be general or no ? you do not say , that all must be there to make a general council , but the popes general summons is sufficient : but , who must be judge , whether that be sufficient or no ? you say so ; but , i see no reason for it , must you be my judge , or i my own ? if i may be my own judge , so must every one else , and so every man is left to believe what councils to be general he please himself . . you say , general councils are infallible : who must be judge of that too ? must the council be infallibly believed in it ? but that is the thing in question . must the pope be judge ? but no man ( you say ) is bound to believe him infallible without the council . must the scripture be judge ? but , who must judge what the sense of the scripture is ? . who must be judge in what sense , and how far the council is infallible ? who must judge , how the council comes to be infallible in the conclusion , that was fallible in the use of the means ? and when any controversie arises concerning the meaning of the decrees of the council , who must be judge , which is the infallible sense of them ? for there is but one sense infallible , though the words may bear many , and unless i know which is the infallible sense , i am not bound to yield my assent to it . but , who must decide this ? the council cannot ; for that leaves no exposition with the decrees . the pope cannot ; for he is not infallible without the council . so that still it falls to every mans private reason , to judge of it . . who must be judge , that the popes confirmation is necessary to make the decrees infallible ? not the council without the pope , not the pope without the council ; for , you say , we are not bound to believe them infallible , but as they are together . and together they cannot , for that is the question , why not a council without the popes confirmation , as well as with it ? and , when did pope and council determine , that no council without the pope , is infallible ? but the contrary hath been determined by a council , viz. that a council is above the pope , and consequently needs not his confirmation . so that for all your pretending to end controversies , you leave men at as great uncertainties as any whatsoever . being not able to resolve some of the most necessary questions , in order to the churches peace , according to your own principles . . i answer more particularly , that his lordships opinion doth not expose near to so great uncertainties as yours doth ; upon this reason , because you requiring an internal assent to the decrees of councils , and infallible certainty in all that men believe , must of necessity leave men in the greatest perplexities , where you cannot give them that kind of certainty on which they may build their faith ; but , his lordship only requiring external obedience to the decrees of councils , a far less degree of certainty will be sufficient . that is , such a kind of moral certainty , as things of that nature are capable of . you ask then , who shall be judge , whether a council were lawfully called , and did lawfully proceed or no ? i answer , let every man be judge according to the general sense and reason of mankind . if there were sufficient authority for calling them together , according to the known practice of the church ; if there was no plain ground of suspicion of any practises by the power of any particular prelate ; no complaints made of it , either in , or after the council ; if there be no plain evidence that it takes any other rules for its decrees , but the scripture , then we say , they are bound to yield external obedience to them , supposing the council generally received in the christian world for a lawful and general council . if you ask again , how should it be known when errours are manifest and intolerable , and when not ? we here appeal to scripture interpreted by the concurrent sense of the primitive church , the common reason of mankind ( supposing the scripture to be the rule of faith ) the consent of wise and learned men ; which certainly will prevent the exorbitances and capricious humours of any phantastical spirits , which may cry out , that the most received truths , ever since christianity was in the world , are intolerable errours . if you are resolved yet further to ask , who shall be judge what a necessary reason or demonstration is ? his lordship tells you , i think plain enough , from hooker , what is understood by it , viz. such as being proposed to any man , and understood , the mind cannot chuse but inwardly assent to it . and , do you require any other judge but a mans own reason in this case ? but , you say , others call their arguments demonstrations ; but let them submit to this way of tryal , and they may soon be convinced that they are not . still you say , they will not be convinced , but will break the peace of the church , supposing they have sufficient evidence for what they say . but if men will be unreasonable , who can help it ? can you , with telling them councils are infallible ? i doubt you would hear of more arguments than you could well satisfie against that presently . we appeal then to the common reason of mankind , whether it be not a far probable way to end controversies , to perswade men in disputable matters , to yield external obedience to the decrees of a lawful general council , than to tell them , they are bound to believe whatever they decree to be infallibly true ? and therefore you are very much mistaken , when you say , his lordship declines the main question , which is , of the necessity of submitting to a living judge , or a definitive sentence , in case two parties , equal for learning and integrity , both pretend to equal evidence for what they say ; for his lordship doth not deny , but that in such a case the submitting to a definitive sentence , may be a reasonable way to end the controversie ; but then the difference between you lyes in two things . . that you would bind men to internal assent to the decrees of a council , as being infallible ; but his lordship saith , they bind to external obedience , as being the supremest judicatory can be expected in the church . . you pretend , that councils called and confirmed by the pope , are thus infallible , and our supreme judge in matters of faith ; his lordship justly dedies that , and sayes , that a free general council observing the same conditions which the first did , is the only equal and indifferent judge . so that the question is not so much , whether shall be a living judge ? as , who shall be he ? and , how far the definitive sentence binds ? and , what is to be done , in case there cannot be a free and indifferent judge ? for in this case we say , every church is bound to regard her own purity and peace , and , in case of corruptions , to proceed to a reformation of them . we now come to the remaining enquiry , which is , whether your doctrine , or ours , tends more to the churches peace ? for clearing of this , his lordship premises these things by way of considerations , . that there is n necessity of any such infallibility in the church , as was in the apostles . . that what infallibility or authority belongs to the church , doth primarily reside in the whole body of the church , and not in a general council . . that in case a general council erre , the whole church hath full authority to represent her self in another council , and so to redress what was amiss either practised , or concluded . and so upon these principles his lordship saith , here is a sufficient remedy for what is amiss , and yet no infringing any lawful authority in the church ; and yet he grants , as the church of england doth , that a general council may erre . but he saith , it doth not follow , because the church may erre , therefore she may not govern . for the church hath not only a pastoral power to teach and direct , but a praetorian also , to controll and censure too where errours or crimes are against points fundamental , or of great consequence . thus he represents the advantages which follow upon his opinion , after which he comes to the disadvantages of yours . but we must first consider , what you have to object against what his lordship hath here delivered . to the first you say nothing , but that stapleton and bellarmin attribute more infallibility to the church , than his lordship doth , which is an excellent way to prove the necessity of it , if you had first proved those two authours infallible . to the second , your answer is more large ; for his lordship to confirm what he said , that the power and authority given by christ , lyes in the whole church , produces that saying of s. austin , that s. peter did not receive the keyes of the church , but as sustaining the person of the church ; from whence he proves against stapleton , that it is not to be understood finally only for the good of the church , but that the primary and formal right is in the church . for he that receives a thing in the person of another , receives it indeed to his good and use , but in his right too . to this you answer from bellarmin , that there is a twofold representing or bearing the person of another , the one parabolical , and by way of meer figure and supposition only ; as agar represented the people of the jews under bondage of the law , &c. the other historical and real , viz. when the person representing , has right or relation à parte rei , in and towards the thing represented , by vertue whereof , it bears the person of the thing represented : now s. peter , say you , sustained the person of the church in this latter sense , really and historically , and not parabolically , and in figure , i. e. he received the keyes as head of the church ; though that reception were ordained for the good of the whole church . but sir , our enquiry is not , how many waies one may imagine a representation to be made , but , what kind of representation that is , which is suitable to s. austin's meaning ? that there may be an allegorical representation , no body denies : but i cannot imagine , how it can belong to this place ; or , who ever meant that s. peter stood here for an allegory of the church , and therefore the members of your distinction are not apposite . for those who assert , that s. peter did sustain the person of the church , in his lordships sense , do yet acknowledge that he did it historicè , and not parabolicè , as you speak , i. e. the donation was really made to him ; but then the question is , in what right or capacity it was made to him , whether in his personal or representative capacity ? for , these are the two only proper members of a distinction here . st. austin saith , not only in that place , but in very many others , that s. peter did sustain the person of the church , when christ said to him , i will give thee the keyes of the kingdom of heaven ; now the question is , in what sense he sustained the person of the church ? you say , in his own right as head of the church ; we say , as a publick person representing the church , not parabolically ( for that is no sustaining the person at all ) but really and historically . and that s. austin means , as a publick person , appears by the other expressions in the places cited , that he did universam significare ecclesiam , signifie the whole church ; and that those things which are spoken of peter , non habent illustrem intellectum nisi cum referuntur ad ecclesiam cujus ille agnoscitur in figurâ gestâsse personam , have no clear sense , but when they are referred to the church , whose person he did bear . can you say this of a king , who receives the keyes of a town , whereof he takes possession for himself , though it be for the good of the kingdom ; that he signifies the whole kingdom in it , and that it cannot have any clear sense , but when it is applied to the kingdom which he represents ? no , this cannot be ; for the king takes possession in his own full right , and it is not the possession , but the administration , which is referred properly to the good of the kingdom . but this might be properly said of a duke of venice , that he takes possession of a town in the person of the state , and that the proper sense is , that the state took possession , and he only representing it . so that the full right lyes in the body of the state , but he as chief member represents the whole . and this is that which s. austin means , when he saith , that s. peter represented the church , propter primatum , for the primacy which he had amongst the apostles , i e. such a primacy of order , whereby he was fittest to represent the whole church . for it is impossible to conceive that he should mean that s. peter should receive this as head of the church , when you acknowledge that he was not head of the church , till after the keyes were given him . for , you say , the performance of christ's promise , in making him head of the church , was not till after his resurrection . but , will you say , the church had no power of the keyes till then ; and then only finally too , and not formally ? what became then of the power of the keyes at s. peters death , if only formally in him , and not in the church ? what becomes of them at the death of every pope ? will you say , as bellarmin doth , that christ takes them , and gives them to his successour ? but he must be sure to wait till the cardinals agree , to whom he must give them . nothing then could be further from s. austin's meaning , than that s. peter received the keyes , as head of the church , and so , that he represented the church only finally ; whereas his expressions carry it , that he means the formal right of them was conveyed to the church , and that s. peter was only a publick person , to receive them in the name of the church . but , whatever s. austin's meaning was , the strength of his lordships assertion doth not stand or fall with that ; for there are arguments sufficient besides to prove , that the authority for governing the church , was not committed formally to s. peter , much less to any pretended successour , but that it primarily and formally resides in the whole body of the church . and , were that the thing to be here disputed , you must not think to take it for granted , that if the keyes were given personally to s. peter , by them was meant the supreme authority of governing the church , exclusively of the other apostles . to the third consideration , you answer , that in case a general council erre , there can be no redress for errour in faith ; for if one council may erre , so may another , and a third , and a fourth , &c. this indeed is very suitable to your doctrine from the beginning , that a man can be certain of nothing but what it is impossible should be otherwise . i hope you are certain your self , you do not erre ; but i suppose you do not think it impossible you should : so , although we do not think it impossible , a council should erre , yet we may be certain it doth not : and , supposing it should , we do not say , it is impossible that a council should not erre , so that another council may correct the errour of the former . and doubtless men may be certain of it too ; if , as his lordship saith , plain scripture , and evident demonstration be brought against the former errour . but these are strange doctrines , that because a council may erre , therefore a council can never afford remedy against inconveniences . for , one great inconvenience is , the breaking the churches peace : that , is remedied by the councils authority ; another is , errour in faith , that may be remedied by another council : no , say you , for that may erre too ; but , doth it follow that it must erre ? or , is it probable that it should erre ? if the former errour be so discovered , and the council so proceed as his lordship supposes . for your other difficulty about the calling another general council , i have answered it already , when i shewed , what we meant by a general council , and when it was lawfully call'd . when you after add , that the church never represented her self in another council but where the former council was unlawful ; and instance in the councils of ariminum and ephesus : you say the same which his lordship doth , for these councils were therefore accounted unlawful because erroneous and factious , and he never asserts the necessity of calling a new council , but in those two cases . but if you would have us account none such , but whom you do , you must excuse us till we see greater reason for it then we do yet : and so likewise for what follows , that the councils which rectified the errours of those were called by the popes authority , as that of trent and others were , which to speak mildly is a gross untruth . you urge from his lordships granting , that the church hath a praetorian power to controul and censure too , where errours or crimes are against points fundamental or of great consequence ; that therefore he and all protestants are justly censured by the roman church for opposing those doctrines which are with her fundamental and of great consequence . but still there is no difference with you between the roman church and the catholick ; between papal councils , and free and general ; between what she judges fundamental , and what all are bound to judge so . if you prove then , that we are bound to rely only on the judgement of your church , your consequence is good ; but otherwise it is tyed with a rope of sand , and therefore we do not fear the lashes of it . and the same fault runs through your subsequent discourse , in which you suppose the church infallible in all she propounds , which you know is constantly denyed , and hath been at large disproved in our first part. for , the ground of your resolution of faith being removed , i see the fabrick of your church falls down with it . for take but away your pretence of infallibility , and your confounding the catholick and roman church ; all the rest moulders , as not being able to stand without them . but that is still your way , if any thing be said of the catholick church , we must presently understand it of yours ; so that it cannot be said in any sense that the church is without spot or wrinkle , but by you it must be understood presently of the doctrine of the roman catholick church universally received as a matter of faith : but till you prove not only your two former assertions , but that st. austin understood those words ever in that sense , your vindication of that place in him concerning it , will appear utterly impertinent to your purpose . and his lordships assertion may still stand good , that the church on earth is not any freer from wrinkles in doctrine and discipline , then she is from spots in life and conversation . having thus vindicated his lordships way from the objections you raised against it , we must now consider how well you vindicate your own from the unreasonableness he charges it with , in several particulars . . that if we suppose a general council infallible , and it prove not so , but that an errour in faith be concluded ; the same erring opinion , which makes it think it self infallible , makes the errour of it irrevocable , and so leaves the church without remedy . to this you answer , grant false antecedents and false premises enow , and what absurdities will not be consequent , and fill up the conclusion ? but you clearly mistake the present business ; which is not , whether councils be infallible or no ? but , whether opinion be lyable to greater inconveniencies , that which asserts that they may , or that they cannot , err ? will you have your supposition of the infallibility of councils taken for a first principle , or a thing as true as the scriptures ? so you would seem indeed , by the supposing the scriptures not to be gods word , which you subjoyn as the parallel , to the supposing general councils fallible . but will you say the one is as evident and built on as good reason , and as much agreed on among christians , as the other is ? i suppose , you will not : and therefore it was very absurd & unreasonable to say , supposing the word of god were not so , errours would be irrevocable , as if general councils were supposed infallible and proved not so . but this is a question you grant to be disputable among christians , and will you not give us leave to make a supposition that it may prove not so ? you must consider , we are now enquiring into the conveniencies of these two opinions , and in that case it is necessary to make such suppositions : and let any reasonable man judge what opinion can be more pernicious to the church then yours is , supposing it not to be true : for then it will be necessary for men to assent to the grossest errours , as the most divine and infallible truths : and there can be no remedy imagin'd for the redress of them . if then the inconvenience of admitting it be so great , men had need look well to the grounds on which it is built . and i cannot see any reason men can have to admit any infallible proponent in matters of faith to the church , but on as great and as clear evidence , as the prophets and apostles had , that they were sent from god. for the danger may be as great to believe that to be infallible which is not , as not to believe that to be infallible which is : for the believing an errour to be a divine truth , may be as dangerous to the souls of men , as the not believing something which is really revealed by god. but to be sure , those who see no reason to believe a general council to be infallible , cannot be obliged to assent to errours propounded by it ; but such who believe it infallible must what ever the errours be , swallow them down , without questioning the truth of them . and it argues how conscious you are of the falseness of your principles , that you are so loath to have them examined , or so much as a supposition made that they should not prove true : whereas truth alwayes invites men to the most accurate search into it . we see the apostles bid men search , whether the things they spake were true or no ; and those are most commended who did it most , and i hope men were as much bound to believe them infallible as general councils . but we see how unreasonable you are , you would obtrude such things upon mens faith , which must lead them into unavoidable errours if false , and yet not allow men the liberty of examination , whether they be true or no. but such proceedings are so far from advancing your cause , that nothing can more prejudice it among rational and inquisitive men . his lordship for the clearing this , proceeds to an instance of an errour defined by one of your general councils , viz. communion in one kind ; but that we shall reserve the discussion of , to the ensuing chapter ; which is purposely allotted for the discovery of those errours which have been defined by such as you call general councils . therefore i proceed . . his lordship saith , your opinion is yet more unreasonable , because no body-collective , whensoever it assembled it self , did ever give more power to the representing body of it , then a binding power upon it self and all particulars ; nor ever did it give this power otherwise , then with this reservation in nature , that it would call again , and reform , and , if need were , abrogate any law , or ordinance upon just cause made evident that the representing body had failed in trust , or truth . and this power no body-collective , ecclesiastical or civil , can put out of it self , or give away to a parliament , or council , or call it what you will that represents it . to this again you answer , this is only to suppose and take for granted , that a general council hath no authority , but what is meerly delegate from the church vniversal which it represents . i grant , this is supposed in it , and this is all which the nature of a representative body doth imply ; if you say , there is more then that , you are bound to prove it . yes , say you , we maintain its authority to be of divine institution , and when lawfully assembled to act by divine right , and not meerly by deputation and consent of the church . but if all the proof you have for it , be only that which you refer us to in the precedent chapter , the palpable weakness of it for any such purpose hath been there fully laid open . his lordship saith , that the power which a council hath to order , settle and define differences arising concerning faith , it hath not by any immediate institution from christ , but it was prudently taken up by the church from the apostles example . so that to hold councils to this end , is apparent apostolical tradition written : but the power which councils have , is from the whole catholick church , whose members they are , and the churches power from god. you say , true it is , the calling such assemblies was taken up , and hath for its pattern the example of the apostles , act. . yet surely there is little doubt to be made , but the apostles had both direction and precept too , for doing it so often as just occasion required , from christ himself . the whole force of which answer lyes in those well placed words , surely there is little doubt to be made ; for as to any thing of reason , you never offer at it . just such another of bellarmins sine dubio's comes after ; though a general council be the church representative , and do not meet , or assemble together hic & nunc , but by order and deputation from man ; yet it follows not , but the power and authority by which they act when they are met may be from god , as doubtless it is . can any man have the face to question , whether the authority of general councils be of divine institution or no , when you say , yes surely , there is no doubt to be made of it , doubtless it is ? we do not question , as you would seem to imply afterwards , whether the people or the pastours have right to send to general councils , but what ground you have to assert , that general councils are an immediate divine institution . but i must needs say , i never saw any thing affirmed oftener , and offered to be proved less , then that is here : and yet as though you had done it invincibly you triumphantly proceed ; general councils then , are a principal and necessary part of that ecclesiastical hierarchy which christ instituted for the government of his church , and not an humane expedient only , taken up by the church her self meerly upon prudential considerations , as the bishop will needs conceive . it strangely puzzles me to find out any thing that particle then relates to ; and after all my search can find nothing , but surely , without doubt , and doubtless . i pray sir , think not so meanly of us , that we should take these for arguments or demonstrations : deal fairly with us , and if we fall by the force of reason , we yield our selves up to you . but you are very much deceived , if you think these things are taken for proofs with us : we can easily discern the weakness of your cause through the most confident affirmations . if you had brought any law of christ , appointing that general councils should be in the church , any apostolical precept , prescribing or giving directions concerning them , you had done something ; but , not so much as to offer at a proof , and yet conclude it as confidently as if it were impossible to resist the force of your demonstrations , is an evidence , that either you know your cause to be weak , or suppose us to be so . much such another discourse is that which follows , wherein you pretend to give a reason , why what is defined by one council in point of doctrine cannot be reversed by another . which is , because the true christian faith is ex natura rei unchangeable , that it admits not of yea and nay , but only yea ; that it is alwayes the same , that it must stand without alteration for ever , nay that it is to be invariable and admit no change . all these expressions we have in one paragraph , and , for all that i see , are the greatest strength of it . but what is it you mean by all this ? do you think we could not understand what you meant by the unchangeableness of christian faith , without so many diversified expressions of it ? and what follows now from all this ? that one council cannot repeal the decrees of another ? how so ? was not the faith of christ as unchangeable in the time of the arrian councils , as it is now ? and yet then one council repealed the decrees of others , in point of doctrine ; and yet by that nothing was derogated from the institution or honour of christ , by such a reversing those decrees . though the faith , i. e. the doctrine of christ , be alwayes the same , doth it thence follow ; then men shall alwayes believe all this unalterable doctrine ? if so , how came arrianism to overspread the church ? how came six hundred bishops at the council of ariminum to be deceived in a doctrine of faith , by your own confession ? it is therefore a profound mistake , to infer from the fallibility of general councils the alteration of the faith of christ. the faith of christ is founded on a surer bottom then the decrees of councils , though all men are lyars god is true , and christ the same yesterday , to day , and for ever . but of this more afterwards . you would seem to argue more pertinently in the following pages against his lordships opinion : for you say , he sayes and unsayes the same ; and what he seems to attribute to general councils in one proposition , he takes away in another . that which his lordship sayes , is , that the definitions of a general council are binding to all particulars , and it self ; but yet so , that they cannot bind the whole church from calling again , and in the after-calls upon just cause to order , and , if need be , to abrogate former acts . and after adds , and because the whole church can meet no other way , the council shall remain the supream , external , living , temporary , ecclesiastical judge of all controversies . only the whole church , and she alone , hath power when scripture or demonstration is found , and peaceably tendered to her , to represent her self again in a new council , and in it to order what was amiss . now we must consider what we find contradictious and repugnant to themselves in these words : three things , if i mistake not , the main of this charge may be reduced to , . that men should be bound to that which scripture and demonstration be against ; but this is very easily answered , for his lordship doth not say , men are bound to believe it , but not so to oppose it as to break the peace of the church by it . . that another council cannot be call'd without opposition to the other : this his lordship prevented , by supposing that the just reasons against the decrees of the former council ought to be peaceably tendred to the church ; but no boisterous opposition to be made against it . . to what purpose should another council be call'd , if the whole church be satisfied that there is scripture and demonstration against the decrees of the former ? but , . his lordship supposes there may scripture and demonstration be , where the whole church is not satisfied ; and therefore there may be necessity of calling another council . . that the council may free all those who may suppose themselves still bound not to oppose the former errour . . that no erroneous decree of a council , may remain unrepealed in the church : that so no erroneous person may challenge such a decree of a council , as a ground for his opposition to the doctrine of the church . and where now lyes any such appearance of contradiction in his lordships words ? . the last thing his lordship chargeth your way with unreasonableness in , is , that you do not only make the definition of a general council , but the sentence of the pope infallible ; nay , more infallible than it . for , any general council may erre with you , if the pope confirm it not . so belike this infallibility rests not in the representative body , the council , nor in the whole body the church , but in your head of the church , the pope of rome . and if this be so , to what end such a trouble for a general council ? or , where in are we neerer to unity , if the pope confirm it not ? to this you answer , . that a general council is not held by you to be infallible at all , unless it involve the pope , or his confirmation ; and so there is but one infallibility , viz. of the pope presiding in , and confirming of the votes of a general council . . you confess there are two different opinions among you ; the first and more common is , that the pope , even without a general council , is infallible in his definitions of faith , when he teaches the whole church ; the second is , that he is not infallible in his definitions , save only where he defines in , and with , a general council . now the bishop ( you say ) takes no notice of the second opinion , but only of the first , as though that were the opinion of all catholick doctors . but , for your part , you will not meddle much with any matters of private opinion or dispute , and therefore you will briefly pass over what his lordship saith further , and only correct some mistakes of his . but whereas you pretend it only necessary to believe , that pope and council together are infallible , for this all catholicks are agreed in ; but , whether the pope be infallible without a council or no , you leave it as matter of dispute . i shall manifest , how great a cheat you put upon the world by this assertion , in these two things , . that there is no such agreement among your selves in this common principle , as you pretend . . that from the making the popes confirmation necessary to the infallibility of the council , you must make the pope infallible without a council . . whereas you pretend such a consent among all catholicks in this common principle , that pope and council are infallible together , it is evident that there is no such thing . for , . some among you have asserted , that the representative body of the church is not at all the subject of infallibility , but the diffusive . for occham contends at large , that the priviledge of infallibility , belongs only to the whole militant church ; and neither to the pope , nor general council , nor body of the clergy . and so likewise doth petrus de alliaco , cusanus , antoninus of florence , panormitan , nicolaus de clemangis , franciscus mirandula , and others , whose words you may find at large in some of your writers , and therefore i forbear repeating them . . some assert , that councils are no further infallible , than they adhere to vniversal tradition ; and you cannot be ignorant , who they are at this day among you , who assert this doctrine . . some further say , that councils are in themselves infallible , and therefore must be so , whether the pope confirm them or no. and this opinion , however now you say , it be not so common as the other , yet it is certain , that before the council of lateran under leo . it was much the more common opinion , as appears by the councils of constance and basil. and , that there is an irreconcilable difference between the authours of this opinion , and those who make the popes confirmation necessary to the infallibility of a general council , i shall prove out of bellarmin himself , from the state of the question , and the arguments he urges against it . bellarmin tells us , the first occasion of this controversie , was about the deposition of popes , viz. whether the pope might against his consent be judged , condemned , and deposed by the council : and therefore , saith he , they are mistaken , who think the question is , whether the council with the pope be greater than the pope without a council ? for , it cannot be conceived he should give consent to his own deposition . and this he proves from the council at basil , who defined their council to be above the pope , at that time , when neither the pope , nor his legats were present . and this council of basil in their synodal epistle , declare a general council , as representing the vniversal church , to be infallible , when at the same time they assert , that popes have fallen into heresie . now , can any one possibly imagine , these men should believe the popes confirmation to be necessary to the councils infallibility , who suppose the pope may be an heretick at the same time , in which a council may be infallible ? and when they assert it to belong to the council only to pronounce , whether the pope be guilty of heresie or no ? those therefore who contend for the councils authority above the pope , do not at all look at the popes confirmation , as necessary to make the decrees infallible ; though some of them may , to make them canonical . for there lyes one of your fallacies ; because they look on the pope as ministerial head of the church , therefore to make canons to be valid , they may judge it in most cases necessary that the pope confirm the decrees ; but yet , they do not suppose this confirmation doth at all make them infallible ; but , whether the pope had confirmed them or no , they had been infallible however . so that you cannot say , that it is a principle of faith among you , that pope and council together are infallible ; for those of this opinion make it a principle of faith , that the council in it self is infallible , and consequently , whether it be confirmed by the pope or no. and therefore bellarmin saith , their opinion is , that in case the pope be dead , deposed , or refuseth to come to the council , the council is not at all the less perfect , but that it hath full power to make definitions in matters of faith. and when he comes to urge against this opinion , one of his arguments is , that from hence it follows , that the council would not at all need the popes confirmation ; and another , that councils without the pope may erre in decrees of faith ; for which he instanceth in the councils of sirmium , milan , ariminum , ephesus , &c. neither , saith he , can it be answered , that these councils erred , because they were unlawful councils ; for the most of them wanted nothing but the popes consent , and the second ephesine council was just such another as that of basil. from which disputation of bellarmin , it is both clear , that those who make councils above the pope , do not judge the popes confirmation necessary ; and those who judge it necessary , do not suppose the council infallible without it . so that you are either deceived your self , or would deceive others , when you would make them believe that there is but one infallibility asserted by you , whereas nothing can be more evident , than that two distinct subjects of infallibility are asserted in your church , some placing it in the council without the pope , and others in the pope , and not in the council , and neither of them absolutely and formally in the pope and council together . . i shall therefore more fully shew , that those who make the popes confirmation necessary , do really place the infallibility in the pope , and not in the council ; and that from these things , . because they in terms assert , that though nothing be wanting to a council , but the popes confirmation , it may erre , if the pope confirm it not . and this we produced bellarmins assertion for already , giving that as the only reason , why those councils did erre , which wanted nothing but that . nay , he elsewhere asserts , not only that general councils may erre , though the pope confirm them not , but although the popes legats be present , and consent with the council , yet if they do not follow the certain instruction of the pope , the council may erre . and , can any one then possibly conceive , that the infallibility lyes any where but in the pope ? . you assert , that all the power and infallibility which is in the church , is formally in the pope , and only finally in the church , because it is for the good of the church ; this i suppose you have not forgot , since you told us , that s. peter sustained the person of the church historicè , and not parabolicè , and that the fulness of all ecclesiastical power was in him as head of the church : if this be true , as there you assert it confidently , whatever you pretend here , you are bound to defend , that all the infallibility in the council comes wholly from the pope ; for i know you will not place infallibility in one , and the fulness of ecclesiastical power in another . . because the main ground of the reprobating councils lyes in the popes dissent . so that councils which in all other particulars are accounted lawful and general , yet if any thing passed displeasing in them to the pope , so far they are reprobated ; as the proceedings of the council of chalcedon , constance , and basil , in reference to the popes , do sufficiently testifie . for , although they were the same persons , acting with equal freedom in those , as in other things , yet when they came to touch any thing of the popes interess , then , because the pope doth not consent , so far they were not infallible . by which it is plain , that , though the council stands for a shew and blind to the world , all the infallibility lyes wholly in the pope . and by this means , to be sure , the pope shall never receive any hurt by general councils ; for if he pleases , the council shall either be approved or rejected , or partly approved , and partly rejected ; or neither approved , nor rejected ; for of all these sorts bellarmin tells us councils are : which in short is , the councils which make for the popes turn , are infallible , but none other . and therefore bellarmin , very consonantly to his principles , sayes expresly , totam firmitatem conciliorum legitimorum esse à pontifice , non partim à pontifice , partim à concilio ; the whole strength of lawful councils depends wholly on the pope , and not partly on the pope , and partly on the council . and if their firmness doth , their infallibility must do so too . this is not a meer private opinion of his , but that which doth necessarily follow , from the making the popes confirmation necessary to the infallibility of general councils . although therefore you would fain put off this as a matter of dispute among your selves ; yet it can be no matter of dispute any more , than , whether the decrees of councils , as confirmed by the pope , be infallible or no ? and therefore all that his lordship objects , falls upon all such who assert this : whereof the first which you mention is , that then the council is called but only in effect , to hear the pope give his sentence in more state . to which you answer , that the objection hath the same force against the council called in the apostles time , viz. that it was done ; only to hear s. peter pronounce his sentence in more state . neither had it been any more , if the infallibility of the council had only depended on s. peter's sentence : but i hope you will not deny the rest of the apostles to have been as infallible as s. peter was . but you answer , . that the pope being to use all means morally requisite to find out the truth ; the council is called really to help and assist the pope ; and the advice of the council is a necessary medium to his holiness , whereby to make a full inspection into the matters he is to define . but all this only confirms what his lordship saith , that it is for his giving sentence in more state ; for the council is only a subservient means , and contributes nothing at all to the infallibility of the sentence . but , you say , they are a necessary medium . . then the pope cannot define any matter of faith without a general council . which , all who assert that opinion , utterly deny ; for , they say , the pope may define matters of faith without a general council ; and bellarmin saith , that the state of the church , without general councils ( which was for three hundred years ) might have continued so to the worlds end ; and therefore it was necessary there should be a living judge , whose infallibility should not depend upon any council : and elsewhere he sayes , that if seven heresies have been condemned by seven general councils ; more than a hundred have been condemned without , by the pope and provincial councils . . though the pope must use all moral means , yet , why must a general council be that necessary medium ? why may not a provincial , or lesser council serve turn ? and so bellarmin tells you , it would ; he saith , indeed some kind of council is necessary , magnum aut parvum , unum vel plura , prou●t ipse judicaverit , great or little , more or less , as the pope shall judge fitting ; so that still a general council is but a piece of state , for all moral means might be used without one . . what use are these moral means for ? to enable him to pass a right judgement , or no ? if they be , then the pope is bound to pronounce according to the decree of the council , and so it will not be in his power , not to confirm it ; if not , what do these moral means signifie ? no more , then the crucifix pope innocent shewed to monsieur de saint-amour ; before which , he told him , he kneeled down to take at the feet thereof his resolution , according to the inspiration given to him by the holy spirt , whose assistance was promised to him , and could not fail him . we see , the pope understood his infallibility better , than to make use of such moral means as councils are ; he knew his infallibility came not that way , and therefore he took the more likely course to receive his inspiration from heaven , by taking his resolution at the feet of a crucifix . and this he called , his council in matters of faith : and yet , if we believe him , he did as much want all moral means for finding out the truth , as another ; since he so ingenuously confessed at another audience , that he was old , and had never studied divinity . but , what need he to do it , that could so easily be inspired , by kneeling at the feet of a crucifix ? your doctrine then would not be very well taken at rome , that general councils are a necessary medium to his holiness , in order to the definition of matters of faith. no more would your following distinction in vindication of stapleton , that though the pope acquires no new power , or certainty of judgement by the presence of a general council , and there is something thereby , which conduceth to the due exercise of that power : so that it must be an usurpation or undue exercise of power , for the pope to offer to define without a general council . i know not what liberty you have to write these things among us ; but if you were at rome , you durst not venture to do it . your saying , that bellarmin only sayes , that the firmness of a council in regard of us , depends wholly on the popes confirmation , argues , you had very little to say : for , what firmness hath a council at all in this dispute , but in regard of us ; since you look on men as obliged to believe the decrees of it infallible ? and , if the decrees had any infallibility from the council , that might make them firm in regard of us , as well as the pope . but you object to your self , that if the pope be infallible without the council , and the council subject to errour without the pope , it must needs follow , that all the infallibility of general councils proceeds from the pope only ; not partly from the pope , and partly from the council . to which you answer , that the assertors of that opinion ( of whom you must be one , if you know what you say ) may say , that christ hath made two promises to his church , the one to assist her soveraign head and pastor to make him infallible , another to assist general councils to make them so . but , what need this latter , if the former be well proved ? for if the head be infallible by vertue of a promise from christ , he must be infallible , whether in council , or out of it . and therefore it is a ridiculous shift to say , the pope hath one promise to make him infallible in a general council ; ano-to make him so out of it . but i commend you , that since you thought one would not hold , you would have two strings for the popes infallibility . and it is but adding a third promise to the church in general , and then your threefold cord may be surely infallible . you give many reasons ( but none so convincing as experience ) why the popes should not be impeccable ; and , if you search scripture , antiquity , and reason , you may find as much , why he should not be infallible . for that of the necessity of one , and not the other for the church , is of your own devising , it having been sufficiently proved , that the certainty of faith doth not at all depend upon the popes , or your churches , or councils infallibility . and it seems still very strange to all who know the doctrine and promises of christianity , and that the promotion of holiness is the great design of it , and that faith signifies nothing without obedience , and that the spirit of god is a spirit of holiness , as well as truth , that you dare challenge such an assistance of the divine spirit , as may make your popes infallible , who have led lives quite contrary to the gospel of christ. nay , such lives , as his lordship saith , as no epicurean monster , storied out to the world , hath out-gone them in sensuality , or other gross impiety , if their own historians be true . your vindication of pope liberius his submitting his judgement to athanasius , because the pope had passed no definition ex cathedrâ in the business , hath no strength at all , unless you first prove , that the popes definitions ex cathedrâ , were held infallible , then which none would ever believe that read the passage , which his lordship cites out of liberius his epistle to athanasius . for , as he saith , the pope complemented exceeding low , that would submit his unerring judgement , to be commanded by athanasius , who he well knew could erre . whether s. ambrose in his epistle meddles with any doctrinal definitions , or only with some difficulties which that year happened about the observation of easter , ( the fourteenth of the first month falling on the lords day ) is not very material to our purpose . but that it was something else besides astronomical definitions ( which i know what s. ambrose's excellency was in ) might easily appear , if you had read the epistle . so that you might have spared your large account of the paschal letters sent by the bishops of alexandria about the keeping of easter ( which are no great novelties to such , who are at all acquainted with antiquity ) and given us a fuller account , why in such a matter of dispute about the right of the day to be kept that year , the roman bishops should not rather have stood to the popes definition , than write to s. ambrose , if it had been then taken for granted , that the pope was infallible . but i might as well have passed by this testimony of s. ambrose , as you do that of lyra , which is so express for the erring and apostatizing of several popes , that you thought the best answer to it , were to let it alone . however you come off with the story of peter lombard ( which is not of that consequence to require any further examination of the truth of it ) i am sure you are hard put to it , in the case of honorius ; when you deny , that honorius did really maintain the monothelites heresie , and excuse the councils , sentence , by saying , it was only in case of mis-information . since it manifestly appears by the sixth synod , action . . that they condemned his epistle written to sergius , as containing heretical and pernicious doctrine in it . and in the seventh synod he is reckoned up with arrius , macedonius , eutyches , dioscorus , and the rest of condemned hereticks , among whom he is likewise reckoned by leo . in his epistle to constantine . which evidence is so great , that canus wonders at those who would offer to vindicate him . and , in the mean time , you provide excellent moral means for the pope to judge of matters of faith by , in general councils , if they may be guilty of so gross mis-information , as you suppose here in the case of honorius ; and not one barely , but three successively , the sixth , seventh , and eighth , and the whole church from their time , till albertus pighius , who first began to defend him . for conclusion of this point , his lordship would fain know ( since this had been so plain , so easie a way , either to prevent all divisions about the faith , or to end all controversies , did they arise ) why this brief , but most necessary proposition , the bishop of rome cannot erre in his judicial determinations concerning faith , is not to be found either in letter or sense , in any scripture , in any council , or in any father of the church , for the full space of a thousand years and more after christ ? to this you answer , . that in the sense wherein catholicks maintain the popes infallibility to be a matter of necessary belief to all christians it is found ( for sense ) both in scripture , councils , and fathers , as you say you have proved , in proving the infallibility of general councils , of which he is the most principal and necessary member . so then , when we enquire for the infallibility of general councils , we are sent to the pope for his confirmation to make them so ; but when we enquire for the popes infallibility , we are sent back again to the councils , for the proof of it . and they are hugely to blame , if they give not an ample testimony to the pope , since he can do them as good a turn . but , between them both , we see the greatest reason to believe neither the one , nor the other to be infallible . but , . you would offer at something too for his personal infallibility ; in which i highly commend your prudence , that you say , you will omit scripture ; and you might as well have omitted all that follows , since you say only , that the testimonies you have produced , seem to do it in effect ; and at last say , that it is an assertion you have wholly declined the maintaining of , and judge it expedient to do so still . and you may very well do so , if there be no better proofs for it than those you have produced , but however , we must examine them . doth not the council of chalcedon seem to say , in effect , that the pope is infallible , when , upon the reading of his epistle to them , in condemnation of the eutychian heresie , the whole assembly of prelates cry out with acclamation , and profess that s. peter ( who was infallible ) spake by the mouth of leo , and that the pope was interpreter of the apostles voice ? you do well to use those cautious expressions of seeming to say in effect , for it would be a very hard matter to imagine any such thing as the popes infallibility in the highest expressions used by the council of chalcedon . for , after the reading of leo's epistle against eutyches , and many testimonies of the fathers to the same purpose , the council begins their acclamations , with these words , this is the faith of the fathers , this is the faith of the apostles ; all who are orthodox hold thus . and after it follows , peter by leo hath thus spoken , the apostles have taught thus . which are all the words there extant to that purpose . and , is not this a stout argument , for the popes personal infallibility ? for , what else do they mean , but only that leo , who succeeded in the apostolical see of s. peter at rome , did concurr in faith with s. peter , and the rest of the apostles ? but , do they say , that it was impossible that leo should erre , or that his judgement was infallible ? or only that he owned that doctrine which was divine and apostolical ? and the council of ephesus ( your next testimony ) hath much less than this , even nothing at all . for the council speaks not concerning s. peter , or the pope in the place by you cited ; only one of the popes officious legats , philip , begins very formally , with s. peter's being prince and head of the apostles , &c. and that he to this day 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; lives in his successours , and passeth judgement . is it not a very good inference from hence , that the council acknowledged the popes personal infallibility ? because one of the popes legats did assert in the council , that s. peter lived and judged by the pope . and yet , might not this be done without his personal infallibility , in regard of his succession in that see which was founded by s. peter ? but you are very hard driven , when you are fain to take up with the sentence of a roman priest , instead of a general council , and any judgement in matters of faith , instead of infallibility . your other testimonies of s. hierom , s. augustine , and s. cyprian , have been largely examined already ; and for the remaining testimonies of four popes , you justly fear it would be answered , that they were popes , and spake partially in their own cause . and you give us no antidote against these fears ; but conclude very warily , that you had hitherto declined the defence of that assertion , and professed that it would be sufficient for protestants to acknowledge the pope infallible in , and with general councils only . but , as we see no reason to believe general councils at all infallible , whether with , or without the pope ; so neither can we see , but if the infallibility of the council depends on the popes confirmation , you are bound to defend the popes personal infallibility , as the main bulwark of your church . chap. iii. of the errours of pretended general councils . the erroneous doctrine of the church of rome in making the priests intention necessary to the essence of sacraments . that principle destructive to all certainty of faith upon our authours grounds . the absurdity of asserting that councils define themselves to be infallible . sacramental actions sufficiently distinguished from others without the priests intention . of the moral assurance of the priests intention , and the insufficiency of a meer virtual intention . the popes confirmation of councils supposeth personal infallibility . transubstantiation an errour decreed by pope and council . the repugnancy of it to the grounds of faith. the testimonies brought for it out of antiquity examin'd at large , and shewed to be far from proving transubstantiation . communion in one kind a violation of christs institution . the decree of the council of constance implyes a non obstante to it . the unalterable nature of christs institution cleared . the several evasions considered and answered . no publick communion in one kind for a thousand years after christ. the indispensableness of christs institution owned by the primitive church . of invocation of saints , and the rhetorical expressions of the fathers which gave occ●sion to it . no footsteps of the invocation of saints in the three first centuries ; nor precept or example in scripture as our adversaries confess . evidences against invocation of saints from the christians answers to the heathens . the worship of spirits and heroes among the heathens justifiable on the same grounds that invocation of saints is in the church of rome . commemoration of the saints without invocation , in s. augustins time . invocation of saints as practised in the church of rome a derogation to the merits of christ. of the worship of images and the near approach to pagan idolatry therein . no vse or veneration of images in the primitive church . the church of rome justly chargeable with the abuses committed in the worship of images . although nothing can be more unreasonable then to pretend that church , person , or council to be infallible , which we can prove to have actually erred ; yet we have yielded so much to you , as to disprove what you have in general brought for the one , before we come to meddle with the other . but that being dispatched , we come to a more short and compendious way of overthrowing your infallibility , by shewing the palpable falsity of such principles which must be owned by you as infallible truths , because defined by general councils confirmed by the pope . whereof , the first in the endictment , as you say , is that of the priests intention defined by the councils of florence and trent ( both of them confirmed by the pope ) to be essentially necessary to the validity of a sacrament . concerning this , there are two things to be enquired into , . whether this doth not render all pretence of infallibility with you a vain and useless thing ? . whether it be not in it self an errour ? we must begin with the first of these , for that was the occasion of his lordships entering upon it ; for he was shewing , that your claim of infallibility is of no use at all , for the settling of truth and peace in the church ; because no man can either know or believe this infallibility . it cannot be believed with divine faith ; having no foundation either in the written word of god , or tradition of the catholick church ; and no humane faith can be sufficient in order to it . but neither can it be believed or known , upon that decree of the councils of florence and trent , that the intention of the priest is necessary to the validity of a sacrament . and , lest you should think i represent his lordships words too much with advantage , i will take his argument in the words you have summed it up in , which are these : before the church or any particular man can make use of the popes infallibility ( that is , be settled , and confirmed in the truth by means thereof ) , he must either know , or upon sure grounds believe , that he is infallible . but ( sayes the bishop ) this can only be believed of him , as he is s. peters successour and bishop of rome ; of which it is impossible , in the relatours opinion , for the church or any particular man , to have such certainty as is sufficient to ground an infallible belief . why ? because the knowledge and belief of this , depends upon his being truly in orders , truly a bishop , truly a priest , truly baptized ; none of all which , according to our principles , can be certainly known and believed ; because ( forsooth ) the intention of him that administred these sacraments to the pope , or made him bishop , priest , &c. can never be certainly known ; and yet by the doctrine of the councils of florence and trent , it is of absolute necessity to the validity of every one of these sacraments , so as without it , the pope were neither bishop nor priest. thus i grant you have faithfully sum'd up his lordships argument ; we must now see with what courage and success you encounter it . your first answer is , that though it be level'd against the popes infallibility , yet it hath the same force against the infallibility of the whole church in points fundamental ; for we cannot be infallibly sure , there is such a number of baptized persons to make a church . by this , we see how likely you are to assoil this difficulty , who bring it more strongly upon your self , without the least inconvenience to your adversary . for i grant , it necessarily follows against the pretence of any infallibility , whether in church , councils , or pope , as being a certain ground for faith ; for all these must suppose such a certainty of the due administration of sacraments , which your doctrine of intention doth utterly destroy . for these two things are your principles of faith , that there can be no certainty of faith , without present infallibility of the church ; and that , in order to the believing this testimony infallible , there must be such a certainty as is ground sufficient for an infallible belief . now , how is it possible there can be such , when there can be no certainty of the being of a church , council , or pope , from your own principles ? for when the only way of knowing this , is a thing not possible to be evidenced to any one in any way of infallible certainty , viz. the intention of the priest , you must unavoidably destroy all your pretence of infallibility . for , to what purpose do you tell me , that pope or councils are infallible , unless i may be infallibly sure that such decrees were passed by pope and council ? i cannot be assured of that , unless i be first assured that they were baptized persons , and bishops of the church ; and for this you dare not offer at infallible certainty , and therefore all the rest is useless and vain . so that while by this doctrine of the intention of the priest for the validity of the sacraments , you thought to advance higher the reputation of the priesthood , and to take away the assurance of protestants , as to the benefits which come by the use of the sacraments of baptism and the lords supper , you could not have asserted any thing more really pernicious to your selves , than this doctrine is . so strange an incogitancy was it in those councils to define it , and as great in those who defend it , and yet at the same time , maintain the necessity of a present infallibility in the church and general councils . for can any thing be more rational , then to desire the highest assurance as to that , whose decrees i am to believe infallible ? and yet at the last , you confess we can have but a moral certainty of it , and that of the lowest degree ; the utmost ground of it , being either the testimony of the priest himself , or , that we have no ground to suspect the contrary . now what unreasonable men are you , who so much to the dishonour of christian religion cry out upon the rational evidence of the truth of it , as an uncertain principle , and that protestants though they assert the highest degree of actual certainty , cannot have any divine faith , because they want the churches infallible testimony ? and yet when we enquire into this infallible testimony , you are fain to resolve it , into one of the most uncertain and conjectural things imaginable . for what can i have less ground to build my faith upon , than that the priest had at least a virtual intention to do as the church doth ? whom must i believe in this case ? and whereon must that faith be grounded ? on the priests testimony ? but how can i be assured , but that he , who may wander in his intention , may do so in his expression too ? or must i do it because i have no reason to suspect the contrary ? how can you assure me of that , that i have no reason to suspect the contrary ? no otherwise then by telling me , that the priest is a man of that honesty and integrity , that he cannot be supposed to do such a thing without intention ? so that , though i were in italy or spain , where , some have told us , it is no hard matter to meet with jews in priests habits , and professing themselves such , and acting accordingly ; yet i am bound to believe ( though they heartily believe nothing of christianity ) yet in all sacraments they must have an intention to do as the church doth . without which , we are told by you , no sacrament can be valid , because the matter and form cannot be determin'd or united without the priests intention . and therefore i do not only object , that this takes away the comfort of all sacraments as to the receivers , but that it destroyes all certain foundations of faith. because the promises of infallibility supposing that , which i can have no assurance of ; that infallibility can be no foundation of faith at all to me . as for instance , suppose the title to an estate depends upon the kings free donation , and this donation to be confirmed by his great seal ; but yet so , that if the lord chancellour in the sealing it , doth not intend it should pass on that account , the whole gift becomes null in law. i pray tell me now , what other assurance you can have of your title to this estate , then you have of the lord chancellours intention in passing the seal ? and what infallible certainty you can have of such intention of his ? just such , is your case , you tell us , the only ground of infallible certainty in faith is the churches infallibility , this infallibility comes by a free promise of christ , this promise must suppose a church in being ; that there is a church , we can have no more assurance then that there are baptized-persons , but the validity of their baptism requires the priests intention in administring it ; and therefore we can have no more assurance of the churches infallibility , then we have of the priests intention . and , is this it at last , which your loud clamours of infallibility come to ? is this the effect of all your exclamations against protestants , for making faith uncertain by taking away the churches infallibility ? must our faith at last be resolved into that , which it is impossible we should have any undoubted assurance at all of ? and will not the highest reason , the clearest evidence , the most pregnant demonstrations which things are capable of , be accounted with you sufficient ground to build our faith of the scriptures upon ? and yet , must a thing so impossible to be certainly known , so generally uncertain and conjectural , be accounted by you sufficient ground to believe your churches infallibility ? are not the miracles wrought by christ and his apostles , joyned with the vniversal tradition of the christian church , a ground firm enough , for us to believe the doctrine of christ divine ? and yet must the intention of the priest with you be a much surer ground then these are ? by all which it appears , that if i had not already largely discovered your grand imposture in your pretence to infallibility , this very doctrine would invincibly prove it ; since , notwithstanding that pretence , you must resolve all into something which falls short of those grounds of certainty which we have to build our faith upon . but we must now consider , how you offer to retort this upon his lordship ; for you say , the same argument will hold against the infallibility of the whole church in fundamentals ; since men cannot be infallibly sure , there is such a company of men who are truly baptized . but how manifestly ridiculous this is , will appear , . that it will hold indeed against all such who assert this doctrine of the necessity of the priests intention , but not others . therefore if his lordship had said , this doctrine had been true , the retortion had been good ; but you saw well enough he disproves it as an errour , and urges this as an absurdity consequent upon it . your argument then as it is , runs in this form : if they who hold the priests intention necessary cannot be sure who are baptized , then they who do not hold it necessary , cannot . where is your consequence ? for he was shewing , the uncertainty of it depended upon that principle , and therefore i suppose the denying of the principle doth not stand guilty of the same absurdity , which the holding it doth . but it may be , the force lyes in being infallibly sure , and so that none can know the infallibility of the church in fundamentals , but such as are infallibly sure that men are baptised . i answer therefore , . that there is no such necessity of being infallibly sure , upon our principles as there is upon yours . for you build your faith upon the churches infallibility in pope and councils , but we do not pretend to build our faith upon the churches infallibility in fundamentals . all that we assert , is , that the church is infallible in fundamentals , but we do not say , the ground of our faith is , because she is so , for that were to make the church the formal object of our faith : since therefore we do not rely on the church as our infallible guide in fundamentals , there is no such necessity of that infallible certainty as to this principle as there is with you , who must wholly establish your faith upon the churches infallibility , the most then that we assert , is , that there is and shall alwayes be a church , for that ( as i have told you ) is all that is meant by a church being infallible in fundamentals ; now for this we have the greatest assurance possible , that there shall be from the promises of christ , and that there is , from the certainty we have of the faith and baptism of christians , since no more is required by us to assure men of it , then all men in the world are competent judges of ; which surely they cannot be of the priests intention . so much for your weak attempt of retorting this argument upon his lordship . but the main thing to be considered , is , your solid answer you give to it ; which indeed is of that weight , that it must not be slightly passed over . you answer therefore , that both a general council and the pope , when they define any matters of faith , do also implicitely define that themselves are infallible ; and by consequence that both the pope in such case , and also the bishops that sit in council are persons baptised , in holy orders , and have all things essentially necessary for that function , which they then execute . neither is there any more difficulty in the case of the pope now , then there was in the time of the prophets and apostles of old ; whom all must grant that with the same breath they defin'd , or infallibly declared the several articles and points of doctrine proposed by them to the faithful , and their own infallibility in proposing them . so indeed vega answered in the case of general councils ; for when it was demanded , how it should be known that the council was a lawful council , he sayes , because the council defined it self to be so ; but for this he is sufficiently chastised by bellarmin , who gives this unanswerable argument against it . either it doth appear from some other argument , that while the council defines it self to be a lawful council , it was a lawful council ; or it doth not : if it doth , to what purpose doth it define it self to be a lawful council ? if it doth not , then we shall doubt of that decree whereby it defines it self to be so : for if i doubt , whether the council were lawful before that decree ; i doubt likewise , whether it might not err in passing that decree . and therefore he grants , that no more than moral certainty or historical faith is requisite in order to it . now this argument of bellarmins holds with equal strength ( if not more ) against you ; for you derive the lawfulness of the council from its infallibility , and that infallibility from the councils definition . thus therefore i argue : either it doth appear , that the council was infallible before that definition , or it doth not . if it appears to be infallible before , then its infallibility is not known by that definition : if it doth not , how can i know it to be infallible by it ? for as i doubt , whether it was infallible before it , so i must doubt , whether it was infallible in it : and consequently it is impossible i should believe it infallible because it defines it self to be so . neither do you at all salve this , by calling it only an implicite definition , for whether it be implicite or explicite , it is all one , since that definition is made the ground , why we must believe the council to be infallible . and of all men in the world you seem the strangest in this , that you declaim with so much vehemency against those who believe the scriptures to be infallible for themselves ; and yet assert that pope and general councils are to be believed infallible , because they define themselves to be so . than which no greater absurdity can be well imagin'd . for they who assert that the scriptures are to be believed for themselves , do not thereby mean that they are to be believed infallible meerly because they say they are infallible , but that out of the scriptures such arguments may be brought , as may sufficiently prove that they come from god. but when you say , that pope and general councils are to be believed infallible , because of their implicite definition that they are so , you can mean nothing else , but that they are infallible , because they take upon them to be infallible , for that is all i can understand by your implicite definition ; for if they should decree they were infallible , that were an explicite definition . but yet how should this implicite definition be known ? for it must be some way certainly known , or else we can never believe that they are infallible upon that account . which way then must we understand that they implicitely define it ? is it by their meeting , debating , decreeing matters of faith ? that cannot be , for councils have done all these which are acknowledged to have erred . is it by pope and council joyning together ? but how can that be , unless i know before , that , when pope and council joyn , they are infallible ? if this then be all the way to prove that pope and council are true bishops because infallible , and they are infallible because they define themselves to be so ; i see , there is an absolute necessity of a mans putting out the eye of his reason , if ever he hopes to see pope and councils infallible . but further yet , there is more absurdity still ( if more can be imagin'd ) in this excellent answer ; for here is a new labyrinth for our authour to sport himself in . for , we are to believe a council to consist of lawful bishops because they are infallible , and yet his only way to prove them infallible , is by supposing that they consist of lawful bishops . for i ask , whether all persons meeting together in council are infallible ? no. are all bishops of protestant , and the greek , and other churches besides the roman , assembled in council infallible ? no. must it not then be supposed , that the bishops are lawful bishops , before they can implicitely define themselves infallible ? and if their lawfulness must be supposed before their infallibility , they cannot first be proved to be infallible , before we can know , whether they were lawful bishops or no. and we cannot know them to be lawful bishops , unless we knew the intention of the priest ; and therefore it remains proved with evidence equal to a demonstration , that your certainty of your churches infallibility , can be no greater than that you have of the priests intention in the administration of sacraments . and by this it appears , how absurdly you go about to compare the case of pope and council , with that of the prophets and apostles of old . for you challenge not an infallibility by immediate inspiration , but such as is constantly resident in the church by vertue of some particular promises , which must suppose the persons in whom it lodges to be actually members of the church . and therefore all the proof of their infallibility depends upon the certainty of that , which you can never satisfie any rational men in ; but , i hope , you will not say , it was so in the prophets and apostles . besides , god never sent any persons with a message from himself to the world , but he gave the world sufficient evidence in point of reason that he sent them ; either by miracles , the testimony of other prophets who wrought them , or some other satisfactory way to humane reason , as i have elsewhere proved at large . but there is no such thing in your case , no rational evidence at all is offered , but we must believe the council lawful because infallible , and we must believe it infallible because it defines itself to be so . neither is it possible to conceive that any man should believe whatever the prophet or apostle said , to be infallibly true ; unless he were before convinced , that they were infallible who spake it . but for this you have a further answer , that it is not necessary to believe the infallibility of the proposer , viz. prioritate temporis , in respect of time , and afterwards the infallibility of the doctrine he proposeth : but it sufficeth to believe it first prioritate naturae , so as the infallibility of the teacher be presupposed to the infallibility of his doctrine . but what this makes to your purpose , i understand not . for it is not the time , but the evidence we enquire for , or the ground on which we are to believe the proposer infallible . whether it must not be something else besides the implicite defining himself to be infallible ? you assert that to be a sufficient ground in the case of pope and councils ? and i pray , will it not be as sufficient in the case of a quaker , or enthusiast ? may not they as well pretend this , that they are infallible ? and if you ask them what evidence they have for it , they may tell you , just the same that pope and council have to be so : for , as they implicitely define themselves to be infallible , so do they . so that , talk what you will of private spirits and enthusiasms , i know none lay so great a foundation for them as you do upon this pretence ; that we are to believe the pope and council infallible , because implicitly they define themselves to be so . than which , one could hardly meet with a more absurd answer from the highest enthusiast : for , he can tell you as boldly , that he hath the spirit of god , because he hath it ; and just so much you say , and no more , pope and council are infallible , because they are infallible . but i must pity you : i know you would not willingly have run into these absurdities , but it was your hard fortune to maintain a bad cause , and you could not possibly help it ; for the straights you were in , were so great , that you must venture thorow some great absurdity to get out of them . but all the pity i have for you is gone , when i read your next words . thus we conceive the relator's achilles is fallen . how fallen ? if he be , it is only with antaeus , to rise the stronger . but i assure you , so far was he from falling by any force of your answer , that he stands more impregnably than ever , having not so much as a heel left , that you can wound him in . and if you have nothing more to say , than what you here give us in answer to this argument , which you tell us , is the common answer of divines ; i am so far from wondring that his lordship took no notice of it , that i shall only wonder at the weakness of your judgement , or largeness of your faith , that can so contentedly swallow such grand absurdities . if this be but , as you say , the prologue to the play , i doubt you will find but a sad catastrophe in it : the main business , you tell us , is about the priests intention , concerning which he positively layes down , that it is not of absolute necessity to the essence of a sacrament , so as to make it void , though the priests thoughts should wander from his work , at the instant of using the essentials of a sacrament ; yea , or have in him an actual intention to scorn the church . what now have you to shew to the contrary ? if the priests intention be not absolutely necessary to the essence or validity of a sacrament , you desire a reason of your adversaries , why we should not think a priest consecrates the body of christ , as much at a table where there is wheaten bread before him , and that eieither by way of disputation , or reading the . chapter of st. matthew , he pronounces the words , hoc est corpus meum , as he doth at the altar ; since here is the true form , hoc est corpus meum , the true matter wheaten bread , and he that pronounces the form , is a true priest , and yet in all mens judgement here 's no true sacrament made . something else therefore is requisite to the essence of a sacrament , and , what can that possibly be , if it be not the intention which the church requires ? since your request is reasonable , i shall endeavour your satisfaction , and the rather because it tends to the full clearing the business in hand . to your enquiry then , i answer , that the institution of christ requiring such a solemnity for the administration of it , and such a disposition in the church for the receiving it , and the performance of such acts , in order to the administration , by the dispenser of it ; these do sufficiently distinguish the lords supper from all other actions , what matter , form , or person soever be there . were not in the apostles times the assembling of the people together for this end , and the solemn performance of the acts of administration , sufficient to discriminate the lords supper , from reading the . of matthew , by an apostle at the table , when there was bread and wine upon it ? and i must confess , i cannot but wonder that you should be so much to seek , as not to know the one from the other , unless you knew the priests intention ? but i consider , your question was not made for apostolical times , but for private masses , wherein the priest may mumble over the words of consecration to himself , and none else be the wiser or better for what he saith , or doth . here it was indeed very requisite you should make the priests intention necessary to discriminate this action , from that you mentioned ; but , where-ever the lords supper is duly administred according to the primitive institution , the solemnity of the action and circumstances do so far individuate it , as sufficiently to difference it from any other formalities whatsoever . and so it is in conferring orders ; is there not enough , do you think , in the solemnity of the action , with the preceding circumstances , and the bishops laying on of his hands , with the using the words proper to that occasion , to difference it from the bishops casual laying his hands on the head of a man , and in the mean time reading perchance the words of ordination ? we assert then , that no further intention is at all necessary to the essence of a sacrament , but what is discoverable by the outward action . which being of that nature , which may difference it self by reason of peculiar circumstances from others , there is no imaginable necessity to have recourse to the private intention of the priest for satisfaction . but see how unreasonable you are herein ; for you would make that to be necessary to distinguish a sacramental action from any other , which it is impossible any man should be acquainted with . for , if i had no other way to distinguish in the case you mention , but the priests intention , i must be as much to seek as ever , unless i cerrainly knew what the priests intention was ; which if you have an art of being acquainted with , i pretend not to it . is it then necessary to distinguish the one from the other , or not ? if not , to what end is your question ? if it be , to what purpose is the priests intention , when i cannot know it ? but you would seem to object against the circumstances discriminating a sacramental action . . if the circumstances do shew to the standers by , that the priest really intends to make a sacrament , and this signification be necessary ; then the priests intention is necessary , or else , why is it necessary it should be signified ? i answer , the circumstances are not intended to signifie the priests intention any further , than that intention is discoverable by the actions themselves , so that it is not any inward intention which is thereby signified , but only such an intention as the outward action imports , which is the celebration of the blessed sacrament . so it is not the priests intending to make a sacrament , as you phrasify it , but his intending to celebrate it , i. e. not such an intention as is unitive of matter and form , as your schools speak in this case , but such as relates to the external action . but against this you urge , . that such external signification is not at all necessary ; for , say you , might not a catholick priest , to save the soul of some dying infant , baptize it , if he could , without any such signification by circumstances ? yes , and a very charitable man he would be in it too , if without any signification by circumstances , he could save the soul of a dying infant . but i should think his meer intention were sufficient and well , as the chief priest would supply the rest , as the schools determine in a like case . for they put a very hard question to themselves , if the intention of a priest be necessary to the validity of a sacrament , then , what becomes of the soul of an infant , which dyes , being baptized without the priest's intention ? to which they answer , it may very piously be believed , that in that case , summus sacerdos supplebit , the high priest will supply that defect ; and what they say of intention , is much more true of baptism it self ; for in case it be not done out of contempt , i say that summus sacerdos supplebit : it is not the meer want of baptism will damn the soul of the infant , ( as you suppose ) when you make it so necessary , to use such shifts as you speak of , to save the soul of a dying infant . but , do you think seriously , that is the way to do it ; for a priest , under a physical pretence to sprinkle water on the childs face often , and once among the rest , to say softly , or by way of discourse , ego te baptizo , &c. with intention to conferr the sacrament ? but you ask however , whether the child be not really baptized by this , although none took notice of what the priest did ? i answer , though we should grant it , yet it proves not that the priests inward intention was it which made it a sacrament ; but the observation of the institution of christ in the external actions ; and so far , as that is observed in this odd kind of baptizing , so far it is baptism , and no more . there are two things therefore to be observed in sacramental actions . . the differencing of them from other common or ordinary actions , and this we say is done by the circumstances attending them . . the validity of them as sacraments , and this depends wholly and only on the observation of christs institution . for , as it is institution which makes a sacrament , so it is the observation of it , which makes this a sacramental action , and not another . but in neither case is the priests intention necessary to the essence of a sacrament ; for it may have its full force in all respects it was appointed for , whatever the priests inward intention be . so that neither of your instances , as to the sacraments of baptism , or the eucharist , do at all imply the necessity of the priests intention , in order to the essence of a sacrament , in either of them . as for the inconvenience which , you say , the bishop pretends would follow out of this doctrine , viz. that no man can rest secure that he hath been really made partaker of any sacrament , no not of baptism it self . you answer , . that as to the far greater part of christians , the inconvenience follows as much out of the bishops principles as yours , that they cannot be absolutely certain that they are baptized ; because the priest may vitiate something pertaining to the essentials of baptism . . you answer , that moral assurance is sufficient in such cases , i. e. such as is liable to no just cause of doubting and suspecting the contrary . we accept of this latter answer in reference to your retortion of the inconvenience upon us , as to which we say , that where is no sufficient cause of doubting , a man ought to rest satisfied . but i shall now shew you , that this moral assurance cannot be sufficient in your case , and that for these reasons , . because you build a main principle of faith upon it , and you say , that moral assurance cannot be a sufficient foundation for faith ; for then all your discourse of the resolution of faith , comes to nothing , which runs upon this principle , that nothing short of infallibility can be a sufficient foundation for faith. now that you build a principle of faith upon it , is evident , as i have proved already , even all that infallibility , you pretend to in church , pope , and council ; for all depends upon this , that you certainly know , that such persons in your church have had the sacrament of baptism truly administred , which cannot be without knowing the priests intention . . because you acknowledged before , that there must be such a certainty as is sufficient to ground an infallible belief ; for this you placed in his lordships objection , and this you pretended to satisfie , by saying , that the pope and council implicitly define themselves to be infallible ; and therefore you fall much beneath your self now , when you say , moral assurance is sufficient . . because we have far greater ground for moral assurance than you : for we make no more requisite to the essence of a sacrament , than what all men are competent judges of ; and our church allows no such baptisms , wherein none but the priest is present ; therefore if he vitiates any thing essential to baptism , it may easily be discovered ; but in your case you have no positive assurance at all of the priests intention , the utmost you can pretend to , is , your having no ground to suspect it , which in many cases there may be . so that you cannot have properly a moral certainty , which hath some evidence to build it self upon ; but in your case there can be no evidence at all of the priests intention , and therefore the knowledge of it is uncertain and conjectural . so that there is a vast difference between that moral assurance , which we may have from the external action , and that which you can possibly have from the priests intention . . the danger is far greater , in not having this assurance upon your principles , than upon ours , and yet we have far greater assurance than you can possibly pretend to . your danger is manifestly greater , as appears by this evident demonstration of it , viz. that in case the priests intention be wanting , you must , by your own confession , be guilty of gross idolatry ; and yet you cannot certainly know , what the priests intention was . this is plain in the case of the eucharist , whose adoration you profess to be lawful , because you suppose christ to be present there . now this depends upon a thing impossible for you certainly to know , and that is the priests intention in the consecration . for if the priest wanted that inward intention which you make necessary to the essence of a sacrament , then , for all his pronouncing the words of consecration , hoc est corpus meum , christs body may not be there ; and in case it be not there , you are by your own confession guilty of idolatry , for you do not then worship christ , but meerly the bread. therefore , supposing adoration of the eucharist upon your principle of transubstantiation were not idolatry , yet since that depends upon a thing impossible to be known , who can with a good conscience do that , which he cannot be certain , but in the doing it , he may commit the greatest idolatry ? wherefore , all the ill consequences of this doctrine of the intention of the priest considered , besides the palpable errours of it , never was any doctrine more imprudently contrived , or more weakly managed , than when this was decreed at the councils of florence and trent . you spend many words to explain that virtual intention which the schools have taken up from scotus upon this subject ; but , all that you say , adds nothing of satisfaction : upon these grounds , . because this virtual intention must suppose some actual intention , so it is in all those cases you mention of a servant on his journey , a labourer at his work ; though these may not have alwaies an express intention of the design of their journey or labour , yet there is sufficient evidence from both of them , to know they had an actual intention , and there is no necessity of knowing any more of it , than what their actions discover : but in your case it is necessary to know that there was once an actual intention , because upon that depends the essence of the sacrament : and that is it which we object against you , that you cannot have any assurance that the priest ever had an express intention . we do not therefore say , that any wandring thoughts after , do destroy the essence of a sacrament ; but the want of an actual intention at all upon your principles doth it , and this you cannot be certain of upon your grounds . and therefore your virtual intention doth you no service at all ; for you say , this virtual intention is , when the priest doth really operate , or celebrate the sacrament in virtue of an express intention which he had to do it ; therefore it necessarily follows , that the essence and validity of the sacrament must depend upon the first express intention , and not the after virtual one . so that if you cannot be certain of the first actual intention , the sacrament may want its essence , for all that you know . . though a virtual intention may be consistent with some wandring thoughts from the first intention , yet not with an express intention to the contrary . as in your own instance , a servant sent upon business , hath at first an express intention , to do what his master commands him ; after , falling into company upon his way , he loseth for the time his actual intention ; but , as long as he goes on upon his first business , he retains , i grant , a virtual intention of it : but , supposing that company disswade him from it , or his own mind turn , so that he hath an actual intention to the contrary , will you say , this man retains his virtual intention still ? now our argument doth not lye meerly in this , that the priest , at the instant of consecration , may have his mind distracted from the matter , in which case you say , the virtual intention remains still , and is sufficient ; but , that you cannot have any certainty , but he may have an actual and express intention to the contrary , at the instant of consecration , and this destroyes his virtual intention , and consequently the essence of the sacrament . for , as long as you require an inward intention , besides the external action , you must be assured , that he had no actual contrary intention at that time , or else your virtual intention signifies nothing to your purpose or satisfaction . that which remains , is concerning catharinus , of whom his lordship sayes , that being present at trent , he disputed this case very learnedly , and made it most evident , that this opinion cannot be defended , but that it must open a way for any unworthy priest , to make infinite nullities in the administration of sacraments ; and that his arguments were of such strength , as amazed the other divines which were present . and concluded , that no internal intention was required in the minister of a sacrament , but that intention which did appear , opere externo , in the work it self performed by him ; and that if he had unworthily any wandring thoughts ; nay more , any contrary intention within him , yet it neither did , nor could hinder the blessed effect of any sacrament . to this you answer , that the cardinal palavicino is clear of opinion , that the council decreed nothing against him ; because he denied not an intention to be necessary in the sacrament , but only explicated the thing differently from the common way of the schoolmen . but whosoever will read the arguments which catharinus used in the council of trent against the priests intention , will easily find that he disputes against all manner of inward intention , but such as may be discovered by the external action . but we must consider that palavicino had a particular kindness for catharinus , as being of siena ( the present popes country ) insomuch that caesar aquilinius saith , if luther had been of siena , the cardinal palavicino would have defended him : and thence he endeavours to vindicate him in the point of certitude of grace , as well as in this of the priests intention , though in both , he goes contrary to the general sense of your divines , both then at trent , and ever since ; who looked on both opinions of catharinus , as condemned there , as is manifest by bellarmin , suares , vasquez , valentia , and others . but however , we may observe this from hence , what an excellent rule of faith , and judge of controversies the decrees of your council of trent are , when there have been , and are still , such different opinions , and eager contests about the sense of them ; that in one point dominicus à soto saith , the council decreed of his side , catharinus saith just the contrary , and yet both great divines and present in the council . and in this doctrine of the intention of the priest , the general apprehension then was , and hath been since , that catharinus his opinion was condemned there , but cardinal palavicino undertakes to prove the contrary . so that in the mean time here is like to be a fair end of controversies , by your pretended infallible decrees of councils , when you are so far from being agreed , what the sense of them is : and yet you , you are the men who say , controversies cannot be ended by the scripture , because there are such differences in the sense and interpretation of it . thus ( we hope ) we have sufficiently vindicated his lordships first charge of errour against your pretended general councils confirmed by the pope . before we come to the second , you say , his lordship presents such a quaint subtilty against the popes right to confirm them , and the necessity of his confirmation , that you cannot well avoid the taking notice of it . thus then , you say , he argues , no council is confirmed till it be finished : and when it is finished , even before the popes confirmation be put to it , either it hath erred , or it hath not erred : if it hath erred , the pope ought not to confirm it ; and if he do , it is a void act : for no power can make falshood truth : if it hath not erred , then it was true before the pope confirmed it ; so his confirmation adds nothing but his own assent . as quaint a subtilty as you call this , i am sure you are hard put to it , to return any satisfactory answer to it . for you distinguish of the popes joynt-consent , and of his actual confirmation ; in case , say you , the pope either in person , or by his legats concurr with the council , then the definition is unquestionably infallible ; but in case he doth not , then the actual confirmation is necessary ; but in case the council erre , the pope ought not , and it is impossible he should confirm it ; but if he doth not erre , you grant it is true , before the pope confirms it , but his confirmation makes us infallibly certain that it is true . this is the full force of your answer , which by no means takes off the difficulty , as will appear , . that by reason of the pope's rare appearance in general councils ( never in any that are unquestioned by the greek and latin churches ) that of his joynt-consent cannot serve you : neither doth the presence of his legats suffice ; for it is determined by bellarmin , and proved by many reasons , that though the pope's legats consent , yet if they have not the express sentence of the pope , the council may erre notwithstanding . so that still the popes actual confirmation is supposed necessary , and that after the definitions of the council are passed . and this is the case which his lordship speaks to : and for your answer to that , i say , . that in plain terms you assert the popes personal infallibility , which you disowned the defence of before : for you say , in case the council erre , not only the pope ought not to confirm it , but that it is impossible he should . which , what is it other than to assert , that the pope shall never erre , though the council may ? neither is it sufficient to say , that he shall never erre in confirming the decrees of a council : for in this case the council is supposed actually to erre already , so that nothing of infallibility can be at all supposed in the council ; and if the pope be not considered in his personal capacity , he might erre as well as the council . from whence it follows , since you suppose that a council may erre , but not the pope , that you really judge the council not to be infallible , but the pope only . . when you say , that if the council erred not , the popes confirmation doth not make the definition true , but makes us infallibly certain that it is true . i enquire further , whereon this infallible certainty depends ? on a promise made to the council , or to the pope ? not to the council , for that you grant may erre ; but it is impossible the pope should confirm it , therefore still it is some promise of the popes infallibility which makes men infallibly certain of the truth of what the council decrees . . to what purpose then are all those promises and proofs of scripture which you produced concerning the councils infallibility , if , notwithstanding them , a general council may err ? only the pope shall never confirm it , and although it do not err , yet we cannot be infallibly certain of it , but by the popes confirmation . and let any reasonable man judge , whether a promise of the popes infallibility , though there be none at all concerning councils , be not sufficient for all this ? so that upon these principles you take away the least degree of necessity of any infallibility in councils , and resolve all into the popes infallibility . for to what purpose are they infallible , if we cannot be certain that any thing which they decree is true , but by the popes confirmation ? but that the popes confirmation cannot make the decrees of those you account general councils infallible , nor us infallibly certain of the truth of them , his lordship proves by another evidence in matter of fact , viz. that the pope hath erred by teaching in and by the council of lateran ( confirmed by innocent . ) that christ is present in the sacrament by way of transubstantiation . which ( his lordship saith ) was never heard of in the primitive church , nor till the council of lateran ; nor can it be proved out of scripture ; and taken properly cannot stand with the grounds of christian religion . this you call a strange kind of proceeding to assert a point of so great importance , without solving or so much as taking notice of the pregnant proofs your authours bring both out of scripture and fathers to the contrary of what he mainly affirms . how pregnant those proofs are , we must examine afterwards ; but his lordship might justly leave it to those who assert so strange a doctrine to produce their evidence for it . especially , since it is confessed by so many among your selves , that it could not be sufficiently proved , either from scripture or fathers to bind men to the belief of it , till the church had defined it in the council of lateran : since , the more moderate and learned men among your selves ( bishop tonstall for one ) have looked on that definition as a rash and inconsiderate action . since , the english jesuits confessed , that the fathers did not meddle with the doctrine of transubstantiation . since , suarez confesseth that the names used by the fathers , are more accommodated to an accidental change . since , father barns acknowledgeth that transubstantiation is not the faith of the church , and that scripture and fathers may be sufficiently expounded of a supernatural presence of the body of christ without any change in the substance of the elements . for which he produces a large catalogue of fathers and others . since therefore we have such confessions of your own side , what need his lordship ( in a controversie so throughly sifted as this hath been ) bring all the testimonies of both sides which had been so often and so punctually examin'd by others . at least ( you say ) he should have cleared how transubstantiation may be taken improperly , whereas of all the words which the church useth , there is none methinks less apt to a metaphorical and figurative sense , then this of transubstantiation . by which i see you are a man who would really seem to believe transubstantiation , and are afraid of nothing , but that it should not be impossible enough for you to believe it . for his lordship was only afraid , that though the word it self were gross enough , yet some of the more refined and subtle wits might transubstantiate the word it self and leave only the accidents of it behind , by taking it in a spiritual sense ; as bellarmin confesses those words of st. bernard , in sacramento exhiberi nobis veram carnis substantiam sed spiritualitèr non carnalitèr , have a true sense ; but adds , that the word spiritualitèr must not be too often used ; and the council of trent would seem to provide an evasion by sacramentaliter : and his lordship not well knowing what they would have by such expressions , therefore he saith , properly taken it cannot stand with the grounds of christian religion . and for all those expressions , bellarmin as well as the council take it in as gross a manner as you can desire ; and i think the physitian who wanted impossibilities enough to exercise his faith , needed nothing else to try it , but your doctrine of transubstantiation . but you say , the term indeed was first authorised by the council of lateran , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by that of nice ; but for the thing it self signified by this term , which is a real conversion of the substance of bread into the body of christ and of wine into his blood , 't is clear enough , that it was ever held for a divine truth . if you prove but that , i will never quarrel with you about the term , call it transubstantiation or what you will ; but we do not think it so clear , as not to want proofs stronger for the belief of it , then all the repugnancies of sense and reason are against it . for it is a vain thing for you to attempt to prove so unreasonable a doctrine as this is , by some few lame citations of fathers , unless you can first prove that the authority of them is so great , as to make me believe any thing they say , though never so contrary to sense and reason . if you could bring some places of the fathers to prove that we must renounce absolutely the judgement of sense , believe things most contradictions to reason , yet you must first shew that the evidence they bring is greater then that of sense or reason . or that i am more bound to believe them , then i am to believe the greatest evidence of sense or reason . when you say , in these cases we must submit reason to faith ; we acknowledge it , when it is no manifest contradiction , in things so obvious to sense or reason , that the asserting it , will destroy the use of our faculties and make us turn absolute scepticks ; for then faith , must be destroyed too . for may not a man question , as well , whether his hearing may not deceive him as his sight , and by that means he may question all the tradition of the church , and what becometh of his faith then ? and if his sight might deceive him in a proper object of it , why might not the apostles sight deceive them in the body of christ being risen from the grave ? and if a man may be bound to believe that to be false which his sense judges to be true , what assurance can be had of any miracles which were wrought to confirm the christian doctrine ? and therefore his lordship might well say , that transubstantiation is not consistent with the grounds of christian religion . but of this i have spoken already . that which i am now upon , is not how far reason is to be submitted to divine authority , in case of certainty that there is a divine revelation for what i am to believe ; but how far it is to be renounced , when all the evidence which is brought is from the authority of the fathers ? so that the question in short is , whether there be greater evidence that i am bound to believe the fathers in a matter contrary to sense and reason , or else to adhere to the judgement of them though in opposition to the fathers authority ? and since , you do not grant their authority immediately divine ; since you pretend not to places as clear out of them as the judgement of sense and reason is in this case ; since you dare not say , that all the fathers are as much agreed about it , as the senses of all mankind are about the matter in dispute ; i think with men who have not already renounced all that looks like reason , this will be no matter of controversie at all . from whence it follows , that supposing the fathers were as clear for you ( as they are against you ) in this subject , yet that would not be enough to perswade us to believe so many contradictions as transubstantiation involves in it meerly because the fathers delivered it to us . i speak not this , as though i did at all fear the clearness of any testimony you can produce out of them , but to shew you that you take not a competent way to prove such a doctrine as transubstantiation is . for nothing but a stronger evidence than that of sense and reason , can be judged sufficient to oversway the clear dictates of both . this being premised , i come to consider the clear evidence you produce out of antiquity for this doctrine , and since you pretend to so much choice in referring us to bellarmin and gualtierus for more , i must either much distrust your judgement , or suppose these the clearest to be had in them , and therefore the examination of these will save the labour of searching for the rest . and yet it is the great unhappiness of your cause , that there is scarce one of all the testimonies you make use of , but either its authority is slighted by some of your own writers , or sufficient reasons given against it by many of ours . your first is of st. cyprian ( or at least an authour of those first ages of the church ) who speaking of the sacrament of the eucharist , saith . this common bread chang'd into flesh and blood giveth life . and again , the bread which our lord gave to his disciples being chang'd not in its outward form or semblance , but in its inward nature or substance , by the omnipotency of the word is made flesh . as to this testimony there are two things to be considered , the authority , and the meaning of it . for its authority , you seem doubtful your self , whether s. cyprian's or no ( since bellarmin and others of your own deny it ) but at least you say , an authour of those first ages of the church , but you bring no evidence at all for it . bellarmin grants that he is younger then st. augustine ; and others say that none mention him for years after st. cyprians time . and the abundance of barbarisms which that book is so full fraught with , manifest , that it is of a much later extraction then the time it pretends to . but the matter seems to be now out of question ; since the book is extant in the king of france's library with an inscription to pope adrian , and a mss. of it is in the library of all-souls in oxford with the same inscription and the name of arnaldus bonavillacensis ; who was st. bernards co-temporary , and lived in the twelfth century . and those who have taken the pains to compare this book with what is extant of the same authour in the bibliotheca patrum , not only observe the very same barbarisms , but the same conceptions and expressions about the sacrament which the other hath . although therefore i might justly reject this testimony as in all respects incompetent , yet i shall not take that advantage of you ; but , supposing him an authour as ancient as you would have him , i say he proves not the thing you bring him for . for which , two things must be enquired into . . what kind of presence of christ he asserts in the sacrament . . what change he supposes to be made in the elements . for your doctrine asserts , that there is a conversion of the whole substance of bread and wine into the substance of the natural body and blood of christ , and that this conveniently , properly , and most aptly is call'd transubstantiation . now if this authour speaks wholly of a real but spiritual presence of christ , and if he asserts that the substance of bread and wine do remain still , you can have no pretence at all left , that this authour asserts your doctrine of transubstantiation . for the first , he expresly saith , that these things must not be understood after a carnal sense : viz. unless ye eat the flesh and drink the blood of the son of man , ye shall have no life in you ; for christ himself hath said , his words are spirit and life . and nothing can be more evident , then that this authour speaks not of any corporeal , but spiritual presence of christ , by the effects which he attributes to it , calling it inconsumptibilem cibum , that food which cannot be consumed : and the reason he gives of it , is , because it feeds to eternal life , and therefore he saith it is immortalitatis alimonia , that which nourisheth to immortality ; which cannot possibly be conceived of the corporal presence of christ , since you confess the body of christ remains no longer in the body then the accidents of the bread and wine do . and after he tells us , what the feeding upon the flesh of christ is , viz. our hunger and desire of remaining in christ , by which the sweetness of his love , is so imprinted and melted as it were within us , that the savour of it may remain in our palat and bowels , penetrating and diffusing it self through all the recesses of soul and body . and so just before he saith , christ did , spiritualinos instruere documento , instruct us by a spiritual lesson , that we might know , that our abiding in him is our eating of him , and our drinking a kind of incorporation , by the humility of our obedience , the conjunction of our wills , the union of our affections . and in another place denyes , that there is any corporal union between christ and us , but a spiritual ; and therefore adds afterwards , as often as we do these things , we do not sharpen our teeth to bite , but break and divide the holy bread by a sincere faith , all which and many other places in that authour make it plain , that he doth not speak of such a corporal presence as you imagine , but of a real but spiritual presence of christ , whereby the souls of believers have an intimate union and conjunction with christ , which he calls societatem germanissimam , in which respect they have communion with the body of christ. but i need mention but one place more to explain his meaning , in which he fully asserts the spiritual presence of christ , and withall that the substance of the elements doth remain . that immortal nourishment is given us , which differs from common food , that it retains the nature of a corporeal substance , but proving the presence of a divine power , by its invisible efficiency . so that what presence of divine power there is , is shewed in regard of the effects of it , not in regard of any substantial change of the bread into the body of christ ; for in reference to that efficiency he calls it , immortal nourishment , and afterwards , that as common bread is the life of the body , so this supersubstantial bread is the life of the soul , and health of the mind . but i know you will quarrel with me for rendring , corporalis substantiae retinens speciem , by , retaining the nature of a corporal substance ; for you would fain have species to signifie only the accidents of a corporeal substance to remain . this being therefore the main thing in dispute , if i can evince that species signifies not the bare external accidents , but the nature of a corporeal substance , then this authour will be so far from asserting that he will appear point-blank against your doctrine of transubstantiation . now , i shall prove that species was not taken then , for the meer external shape and figure , but for the solid body it self especially of such things as were designed for nourishment . thence in the civil law we read of the species annonariae , and of the species publicae , largitionales , and fiscales ; and those who had the care of corn are said to be curatores specierum ; and thence very often in the codes of justinian and theodosius , there is mention of the species vini , species olei , species tritici . but lest you should think , it is only used in this sense in the civil law , not only cassiodore and vegetius use it in the same sense for the species tritici , and species annonariae ; but , that which comes home to our purpose , st. ambrose uses it where it is impossible to be taken for the meer external accidents , but must be understood of the substance it self : speaking of christs being desired to change the water into wine , he thus expresses it , vt rogatus ad nuptias aquae substantiam in vini speciem commutaret , that he would change the substance of water into the species of wine ; will you say , that christ turned it only into the external accidents and not the nature of it ? so when st. austin sayes , that christ was the same food to the jews and us , significatione nonspecie , he opposes species to a meer type , and therefore it imports the substance and reality of the thing . and so the translator of origen opposes the regeneratio in specie to the baptismus in aenigmate , and the manna in aenigmate to the manna in specie : in both which , being opposed to the figure it denotes the reality . and one of those authours whom you cite in the very same book and chapter which you cite , uses species sanguinis for the substance of blood , for he opposes it to the similitudo sanguinis ; for when the person objects , and sayes , that after the cup is consecrated speciem sanguinis non video , i do not see the nature or substance of blood ; he answers him , sed similitudinem habet , but it hath the resemblance of it ; for as ( saith he ) there is the similitude of his death , so there is the similitude of his blood . these may be sufficient to shew that species corporalis substantiae , does not relate to the external shape and figure , but to the nature and reality of it : so that his meaning is , although it remains still the same substance of bread and wine ; yet there is such an invisible efficiency of divine power going along with the use of it , as makes it to nourish the souls of men to eternal life . and now it will be no matter of difficulty at all to answer the places you bring out of this authour . the first is , this common bread chang'd into flesh and blood giveth life . but how little this place makes to your purpose is easie to discern , because we do not deny a sacramental change of the bread into the flesh and blood of christ , but only that substantial change which you assert , but that authour sufficiently disproves , even in that very sentence from whence those words are cited , if you had given them us at large . for , saith he , that common bread being chang'd into flesh and blood , procures life and increase to our bodies ; and therefore from the usual effect of things , the weakness of our faith is helped , being taught by a sensible argument , that the effect of eternal life is in the visible sacraments , and that we are not united to christ so much by a corporal as spiritual union . in which words he compares the sign and the thing signified together : that as the bread being sacramentally changed into the flesh and blood of christ , doth yet really give life and nourishment to our bodies , ( which certainly is far enough from that substantial change into the body of christ , which you assert ) so by that effect of the sign it self upon our bodies , our faith is helped the better to understand the efficacy of the thing signified upon our souls , in order to eternal life ; there being as real , though spiritual , union between christ and believers , as there is between the bread and our bodies . and that this is the plain and unsophisticated meaning of this authour in these words , i dare appeal to the impartial judgement of any intelligent reader . by which we see , those first words of the change of the bread into the flesh and blood of christ , must be understood of a sacramental , and not a substantial change . but your other is the great and ( as bellarmin thinks ) unanswerable place ; which you thus render , the bread which our lord gave to his disciples , being changed not in its outward form and semblance , but in its inward nature and substance , by the omnipotency of the word is made flesh . as to which place , i must tell you first , that there are very shrewd suspicions of some unhandsome dealings with it ; for some great criticks have assured us , that the place is corrupted , and that the ancient mss. read it quite otherwise , non effigie , nec naturâ mutatus , which is so far from your purpose , that it is directly against it ; and this seems far more consonant to the following words ; for , saith he , as in the person of christ , the humanity was seen , but the divinity lay hid ; so in the visible sacrament , the divine essence doth infuse it self after an unexpressible manner . in which it is considerable , how he doth parallel these two together ; for as the humane nature of christ did substantially remain , notwithstanding the presence of the divine nature , so to make good the parallel , the substance of bread and wine must remain too , and that because he doth not say , that the body of christ is present , which might exclude the substance of the elements , but the divine essence , which only imports a spiritual and real presence . and when he saith , that the bread is neither changed in its form or nature , when by the omnipotency of god it is made flesh ( i. e. as to the real communion which believers have of the body of christ ; which is an act of divine power as well as goodness ) he saith no more , than theodoret , ephraim , and gelasius do expresly speak . for , saith theodoret , the mystical symbols after consecration , go not out of their own nature , but remain in their former substance , figure , and shape , and are visible and tangible as they were before : which words , considering the occasion and importance of them , are so express , as nothing can be more . and in his former dialogue , he gives an account , why the external symbols are called by the names of the body and blood of christ , not by changing their natures , but by superadding grace to nature ; which is the same with that our authour saith here , though neither figure nor nature be changed , yet by gods omnipotency it is made flesh ; that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in theodoret and this omnipotentia dei , here importing the same thing . to the same purpose ephraim the famous patriarch of antioch speaks in photius . for , saith he , the body of christ , which is received by believers doth not lose its sensible substance ; and yet is inseparable from spiritual grace . and so gelasius , as plainly as either of the foregoing , asserts , that the sacraments of the body and blood of christ , which we receive , are a divine thing , through and by which we are made partakers of the divine nature ( which answers to the omnipotency of god , by which it is made flesh , in our authour ) and yet it doth not cease to be the substance , or nature of bread and wine ( which is the same with the former clause , that the bread is not changed in figure or nature . ) so that the ancient reading of this place is not only consonant to the other parts of his discourse , but asserts no more than is in express terms said by genuine and unquestionable authours ; who plainly overthrew your doctrine of transubstantiation . for these testimonies being so express for the remaining of the substance of bread and wine after consecration , are of far greater force against it , than the highest expressions concerning the change of the elements can make for it . for in these they speak their judgements , clearly and punctually against hereticks , and speak that which is absolutely inconsistent with transubstantiation ; but in their other they speak mystically and sacramentally ; and their most lofty expressions , must be understood by the nature and design of their discourse , which is to represent symbolical things in the most lively and affecting manner . but when our adversaries are urged with the former testimonies , they then tell us , that substance and nature are not alwaies taken properly , but sometimes at large for the accidents or use of things : but although this can never be applied to the places of the foregoing authours , in their disputations with the eutychian hereticks ; yet from thence we are furnished by themselves with a further answer to this place . so that although we admit of the present reading , non effigie , sed naturâ mutatus , yet since by their own confession nature doth not alwaies import the substance of a thing , they cannot in any justice or reason from hence inferr a substantial change . let them then take their choice , whether are the words of substance and nature in the fathers alwaies to be taken properly , or no ? if they must be taken so , we have three unquestionable testimonies of ancient fathers directly against transubstantiation , and we only lose the testimony of an uncertain authour , built upon an uncertain reading , and contrary to other expressions in the same book : if they be not , then from the change of nature here expressed , no such thing as a substantial change can be inferred , but only accidental , upon consecration , in regard of the sacramental use and effect of it . which that it is nothing strange in antiquity , might be easily proved , but that our adversaries confession saves me the labour of it . the second testimony , is of gregory nyssen , out of whose catechetical oration you produce these words , with good reason do we believe , that the bread being sanctified by god's word , is changed into the body of the word of god : and a little after , the nature of the things we see being trans-elemented into him . i might here tell you , what exceptions are taken against this book , as not being genuine , not only by protestants ( as fronto ducaeus would have it , because of these expressions ) but by others too . but i will not insist on this , because i see no sufficient reason to question the authority of it ; yet i know not how you can excuse it from some interpolations , since he therein mentions severus , an heretical acephalist , who lived not till after gregory's time ; yet for the main of the book , i say as casaubon doth , that it is , opus planè eximium si paucos navos excipias , an excellent piece in the general , and becoming its authour , some few escapes excepted . and the design of it being to shew , that christian religion hath nothing absurd or unreasonable in it , it would be very strange that he should assert so absurd and unreasonable a doctrine , as transubstantiation is . but there is nothing tending to that in the places cited , but only the use of those two words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; for the main force of all , you say , depends upon them . so that if we can give a good account of them , without any transubstantiation , there remains no difficulty at all in these words of gregory nyssen . for , we deny not that there is a change in the elements after consecration , but we say , it is a sacramental , and you , that it is a substantial change , and this you offer to prove from these two words here used in reference to the eucharist . the argument commonly formed by your authours from the first words , is , whatsoever is changed , is not what it was before : which we readily grant , so far as the change is ; but still it remains to be proved , that the substance is changed in it self . but it were easie to shew , that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in multitudes of places of the fathers is used for an accidental and relative change , and gregory nyssen himself very frequently uses the word , where it is capable of no other sense , as when he saith , of the shining of moses his face , that it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a change to that which was more glorious ; and when he affirms , the souls of men by the doctrine of christ , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to be changed into that which is more divine . and in this same catechetical oration he uses it several times to the same purpose , about the change which shall be in glorified bodies , and the change of mens souls by regeneration : but i need not insist more on this , since i produced before the confession of suarez , that such expressions are more accommodated to an accidental mutation . neither is there any more strength in the other word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , though suarez thinks this comes nearer the matter , and you confidently say , what can here be signified by trans-elementation of the nature of the outward element , but that which the church now stiles transubstantiation ? i will therefore shew you , what else is signified by that word which gregory used , which cannot be properly rendred trans-elementation ; for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , doth not come from the noune 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but from the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the greeks expound 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : and so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; as you may see in suidas , and others . so that it imports not a substantial , but an accidental change too : and in that sense gregory nyssen uses it to express regeneration by , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , those who are trans-elemented by regeneration ; would you say , those who are transubstantiated by it ? so that ▪ neither of these testimonies import any more than that there is a sacramental change in the elements after consecration , by which believers are made partakers of the body and blood of christ ; which is no more than we assert , and falls far short of your doctrine of transubstantiation . your third testimony is , of s. cyril of hierusalem , which you would make us believe , is so full and clear , that no catholick could express his own , or the churches belief of this mystery , in more full , plain , and effectual terms : neither shall i here stand to dispute the reasons on which those mystagogical discourses under his name are questioned , but proceed to the consideration of the testimony it self . which lyes in these words , he that changed water into wine by his sole will ( at cana in galilee ) doth he not deserve our belief , that he hath also changed wine into blood ? wherefore let us receive with all assurance of faith , the body and blood of jesus christ. seeing under the species of bread the body is given , and under the species of wine his blood is given , &c. knowing and holding for certain , that the bread which we see , is not bread ( though it seem to the tast to be bread ) but the body of jesus christ ; likewise that the wine which we see ( though to the sense it seem to be wine ) is not wine for all that , but the blood of jesus christ. this testimony you have patched together out of several places in that oration , very warily leaving out that , which would sufficiently clear the meaning of s. cyril in the words you cite out of him . for it is evident , that his design is to perswade the catechumens ( from whom the mysterious presence of christs body in the sacrament was wont to be concealed ) that the bread and wine were not meer common elements , but that they were designed for a greater and higher use to exhibit the body and blood of christ to believers . and therefore he saith expresly , do not consider them as meer bread and wine , for they are the body and blood of christ , according to his own words . by which it is plain he speaks of the body and blood of christ , as sacramentally , and not corporeally present ; for he doth not oppose the body and blood of christ , to the substance of bread and wine , but to meer bread and wine , i. e. that they should not look on the bread and wine as naked signs , but as signa efficacia , and that there is a real presence of christ in and with them to the souls of believers . and this is it which he saith , that they ought not to make a question of , since christ said , this is my body , and this is my blood . for if he could by his will turn the water into wine , shall we not believe him , that he can change his wine into his blood ? and after adds , that under the symbols of bread and wine , the body and blood of christ is given , that thou mayest be a partaker both of his body and blood . you render this under the species or form of bread and wine in cyril it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in that which is the figure or representation of the body and blood of christ ; for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is not taken in your sense for the external accidents , which you call the species , but for that which doth figure or represent ; for in his next catechetical discourse he calls the bread and wine , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the figure of the body and blood of christ , and this theophylact , and those who assert transubstantiation , deny that the bread and wine are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for , where there are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , there must be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which must answer to them ; if cyril therefore makes the bread and wine to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he must make the body and blood of christ to be the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and consequently they cannot be the very body and blood of christ in your sense . this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here have the same signification , and are the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so when he saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , his meaning cannot be , under the accidents of bread and wine the body and blood of christ is present in your sense , for he speaks of such a presence as hath relation to the receiver , and not to the elements ; for he saith , vnder the type of bread and wine , the body and blood of christ is given to thee . for otherwise it had been far more to his purpose to have said absolutely , that under the species of bread and wine , the body and blood of christ is substantially present ; but , when he saith , only that it is given to the receiver , it doth not belong to such a corporeal presence as you dream of , but to such a real and spiritual presence , whereby believers are make partakers of the body and blood of christ. and therefore cyril is in this well explained by that of tertullian , hoc est corpus meum , id est , figura corpus mei , this is my body , i. e. the figure of my body , which is the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and by that of s. austin , non dubitavit dominus dicere , hoc est corpus meum , cum daret signum corporis sui , christ did not scruple to say , this is my body , when he gave the figure of his body : and elsewhere speaking of judas his being present ad convivium in quo corporis & sanguinis sui figuram discipulis commendavit & tradidit , at that supper in which christ commended and delivered to his disciples the figure of his body and blood . so that hitherto there is nothing in the testimony of cyril , importing transubstantiation . but it may be you think , there is more force in it , where he saith , that we must not believe our senses , that that which we see is not bread , though it seem to the tast to be so , &c. as to which i answer , that this place of cyril must be explained by that which went before it , wherein he said , that we must not judge it to be meer bread , and meer wine . for , although sense be a sufficient judge of that which it sees and tasts , yet it cannot be a judge of that which is exhibited by that which is seen and tasted ; therefore , though to the tast , it seems to be nothing but common bread and wine , yet they ought to believe that it is the communion of the body and blood of christ. so that this is not to be understood of the elements themselves , but of the mystical and sacramental nature of them . and , as cardinal perron hath observed , it is an usual thing , for the greater emphasis sake , to deny that to be , which is meant only respectively ; or to express the affirmation and denyal of some qualities , by the affirmation or denyal of the substances themselves : as in that of tully , memmius semper est memmius , for one ; that in s. ambrose , ego non sum ego , for the other : and in many other instances to the same purposes , in which he saith , though the substance seem to be denied , yet only some quality is understood by it . so when cyril here saith , that bread is not bread , &c. he means not by it any alteration of the substance of it , but that it is not that common bread which it was before , and as our sight and tast judge it still to be . and what he saith here of the bread in the eucharist , he said the same before of the chrism , where he compares them both together . for ( saith he ) do not think that to be meer oyntment ; for as the bread of the eucharist after the invocation of the holy spirit , is no longer bread , but the body of christ ; so this holy oyntment , is no longer meer , or common oyntment , after it is consecrated , but a gift of christ , and the holy spirit ; being effectual through the presence of his divine nature . may not you then as well prove a transubstantiation here as in the eucharist , since he parallels these two so exactly together ? and so elsewhere he speaks concerning baptism , that they ought not to look on it as meer water , but as spiritual grace ; so that he means not a substantial change in the eucharist , any more than in the other , but only relative and sacramental . neither can any thing more be inferred from your testimonies out of your last authour s. ambrose , there being nothing at all in the words you produce , which implies any substantial change in the elements ; for , although it be only sacramental , yet it may be truly said , it is no longer that which nature hath framed it ( viz. meer bread and wine ) but that which the benediction of consecration hath made it to be : which i grant to be the body and blood of christ , but not in your gross and corporeal sense . so s. chrysostome saith of baptism , that its virtue is so great , it doth not suffer men to be men ; will you therefore say , it transubstantiates them ? but you add further out of him , that he saith , the force of benediction is greater than that of nature , seeing by that nature it self is often changed ? and so we assert too , that the force of benediction far exceeds that of nature , which can so alter common elements , as by the use of them , to make us partakers of the body and blood of christ. your last words are out of the counterfeit s. ambrose , which are only general , viz. this bread , is bread before the words of the sacrament , but when consecration comes , of bread , it is made the flesh of christ. this we deny not , but the dispute is about the sense in which it is made so , whether by a substantial change of the bread into the body of christ : and that this cannot be this authour's meaning , appears by those known words which are used by him , speaking of the efficacy of christs power in the sacrament , whereby he can make , ut sint quae erant & in aliud commutentur , that they might be what they were , and yet be changed into something else . and , although a great controversie hath been raised about the reading of these words , yet this reading is not only justified by many authours of competent antiquity , but by two mss. in the k. of france's library , besides many others elsewhere , and all editions , but that at rome , and others which follow it . so that this authour plainly asserts , that the substance of the elements does remain still , and therefore can only be understood of a sacramental change . thus i have , to satisfie you , examined your testimonies in behalf of transubstantiation ; but whereas you referr me for more to bellarmin and other catholick authours , i shall referr you for answer to those no less catholick authours , though no believers of transubstantiation , who have taken large and excellent pains in answering what they have brought ; either from scripture or antiquity . but you , having done your best in the latter , come at last to the former ; but so pitifully manage your business as to scripture , that it had been more for the interest of your cause , you had never medled with it . for you only say , that the words of scripture , taken in their proper and litteral sense , do evidently shew , that the only substance which is delivered in this sacrament , is the body of christ , and that the substance of bread is no more there . and all this comes only from hence , because christ saith , this is my body , which you parallel with one , pointing to a hogshead of wine , saying , this is wine ; and with one holding up a purse full of mony , saying , this is gold : who if they intend to speak truth , must signifie , that the only liquor contained sub propriâ formâ , in the hogshead is wine ; and all the mony in the purse , gold . but how weak this is , will easily appear , . that you take it for granted , that the expression of christ is not at all figurative , but of the same nature with those propositions you mention , whereas it is largely proved , from the nature of a sacrament , from many parallel expressions in scripture , from evidence of antiquity , sense , and reason , that these words of christ cannot be otherwise than figuratively understood . . you suppose that christ must speak of the individual bread , when he said , this is my body , as our parallel instances are of such individuals as are pointed to . but bellarmin will tell you , that if christ had spoken of the bread , when he said , this is my body , absurdissima esset locutio , it had been a most absurd speech . and vasquez saith , if the pronoune hoc , this , should relate to the bread , he confesses , that by virtue of those words , there could be no substantial change made in it ; for the bread must remain still . so that by the confession of your own authours , your parallel is absurd , and destructive to the doctrine of transubstantiation . the third errour of a general council confirmed by the pope , which his lordship insists on , is , that of administring the b. sacrament to the laiety under one kind only . of this he had spoken . before ; and thither you referr us for your answer ; but i purposely omitted the handling it there , because it comes in more properly in this place . there his lordship hath these words : to break christs institution is a damnable errour , and so confessed by stapleton . the council of constance is bold , and defines peremptorily , that to communicate in both kinds is not necessary , with a non obstante to the institution of christ ; and although bellarmin answers , that the non obstante only belongs to the time of receiving it after supper , yet his lordship shews from the words of the council , that the non obstante must relate to both clauses foregoing , and hath as much force against receiving under both kinds , as against receiving after supper . yea , and the after words of the council couple both together , in this reference ; for it follows , & similiter , and so likewise , though in the primitive church , &c. and a man by the definition of this council may be an heretick for standing to christs institution , in the very matter of the sacrament : and the churches law for one kind may not be refused , but christs institution under both kinds may . and yet this council did not err ; no , take heed of it . but all this cannot perswade you , that the non obstante relates to any thing but to the receiving after supper : which i much wonder at , since the design of the decree of the council was not to determine so much concerning the time of receiving , as the kinds in which it was to be received . now to have said point-blank , that , notwithstanding the institution of christ to the contrary , they decreed that the sacrament should be received in one kind only , would have been too plain and gross : and therefore they fetch it about with a compass , and put in something not so much controverted then , the better to disguise the opposition between their decree and christs institution . but yet by the adding the administration in both kinds to the time of receiving , and the non obstante following both , and the decree being against that which is acknowledged to have been done by christ , nothing can be more evident , then that the sense of the decree implyes a non obstante to christs institution . for otherwise , to what purpose do they say , although christ administred the sacrament in both kinds , and although the primitive church so received it , if they did not intend to decree something contrary to that administration and the practise of the primitive church ? therefore , whether by the meer form of words the non obstante doth relate to christs institution or no , is not material , since the decree it self is directly opposite to it . although therefore they did not put receiving in one kind immediately after the non obstante ( which is that you object ) as they do , not consecrating after supper , and receiving fasting , yet the force of it reacheth to what follows after : as not only appears by the connexion and likewise , but chiefly by the scope of the decree it self . for the proctors of the council , henricus de piro , and johannes de scribanis , in their ●uthentick instrument , never exhibited any controversie at all concerning the time of receiving , but only concerning the communion in both kinds , because , they said , there was an ill custome ( so the observing christs institution was call'd ) for some priests to give the cup to the laity , therefore they desired the council , &c. so that it appears , this bringing in the time of receiving , was only the artifice of the contrivers of the decree , that they might with less noise and clamour thwart the plain institution of christ. and accordingly it appears by the title of the decree , that the intent of it was to forbid the giving the sacrament to the people in both kinds , and so carranza delivereth the canon it self . praecipimus sub poenâ excommunicationis , quòd nullus presbyter communicet populum sub utrâque specie panis & vini . indeed , in the late editions of the councils by binius , a complaint is supposed to be made concerning the celebrating the sacrament after supper by some which he seems to take out of cochlaeus , as appears by his notes ; but in the instrument it self nothing appears of that nature , and since the decree contains nothing against that custom as well as the other ; it seems probable , that this was made use of the better to bring on the other . but , whether it were so or no , is not very much material ; for however the council confessing that christ did so administer it , and that it was the custom of the primitive church , their prohibiting of it doth in its own nature imply a non obstante to the institution of christ. but this is that you stiffly deny , in saying , that neither the decree of the council , nor the practise of the church in administring under one kind is contrary to the institution and ordination of christ. for , say you , to shew this , the bishop should have made it appear that christ did so institute this sacrament of his last supper , that he would not have one part to be administred without the other , or that he would not have one part to be taken without the other . and it cannot be proved that laymen are bound to receive in both kinds , from those words , drink ye all of this ; for if this were a command and not a counsel , it was given to the apostles who all drunk of the chalice . so that the state of the question is this , whether the primitive institution be universally obligatory to all christians or no ? for you suppose , that either it was only a counsel , or else it had particular reference to the apostles . for the clearing therefore of this question , there are but two wayes whereby we can judge of the obligatory nature of such institutions ; either by an express declaration of the will of the first institutor , or by the vniversal sense of the church concerning the nature of that institution . and if these two appear evident in this present case , you will have no cause to question , but the communion in one kind is a violation of the institution of christ. there are two wayes whereby we may judge what the will of the legislator is : first , by an express positive command . secondly , by an unalterable reason on which the institution is founded . now that both these are clear in the case of communion in both kinds i now come to manifest . first , by a positive command . for although we grant a difference between an institution and a command , in this respect , that the institution properly respects the thing , and a command the person ; and that an institution , barely considered as such , doth not bind all persons to the observance of it ; as we say , matrimony is instituted by god , but do not thence assert that all persons are bound to it , but yet take an institution as it referrs to persons , and so it is aequipollent with a command . and so christs instituting that all who believe should be baptized , is of the nature of a command to that purpose . but here is a great difference to be made between such things as were done at the institution , and such things as were instituted to be done afterwards . thus christ washed his disciples feet , administred after supper , and only to twelve ; but it doth not follow that these circumstances must be still observed , because though they were done then at that celebration , yet christ doth not institute or appoint the doing of them , when ever that sacrament should be administred afterwards . for we are to consider , that though there were some things peculiar to the first institution , yet the main of it was intended for the church in all following times . or else we must make the celebration of the eucharist it self to be a meer arbitrary thing . which if it be not , there must lye an obligation on men for the participation of it ; now this obligation must suppose a law , and therefore we have gained this , that the institution of the eucharist doth imply a command for its observation in the church . so that this action of christ was not meerly a matter of counsel , but there is something in it perpetually obligatory : because it was not a peculiar rite appropriated to the present time , but intended for the future ages of the church . this being proved in the general , that there is a perpetually obligatory command , implyed in the institution ; we are now to enquire , how far this command extends ? whether it extended only to the apostles , or else to all believers ? that it was administred then to the apostles only is granted , but the question is , in what capacity it was administred to them , whether only as apostles , or as believers ? and that must be judged by the intention of the institution , whether it were of that nature as to respect their apostolical office , or else some thing which would be common with them to all other believers to the worlds end ? if it were only and wholly proper to the apostles , there can be no reason given , why the institution of the sacrament should continue after their times : neither could any other but the apostles have any right , either to administer or to receive it . it follows then , that this sacrament was not instituted meerly for the apostles ; if not for them meerly , then what was contained in the institution doth concern others as well as them . now there are four things commanded in the institution , take , eat , drink ye all of this , and , this do in remembrance of me . if the institution doth not meerly respect the apostles as such but others also , then some of these things at least must extend to others too considered as believers . and if some , why not all of them ? were the apostles considered as believers , when they were bid to take and eat ? and as apostles , when christ said , drink ye all of this ? what reasonable pretext can be imagin'd for such a groundless fancy ? if they were not considered as believers , when christ said take , eat ; by what right can any believers take and eat ? if they were then , so were they likewise afterwards , when christ said to them , drink ye all of this . as far therefore as i can possibly see , you must either admit the people to drinking all of this , or else deprive them of their right of taking and eating . and if you did speak consistently , you must say , that the peoples being admitted at all to the eucharist is an act of favour and indulgence in the church , but not necessary by any command of christ , the eucharist being administred to the apostles and not the people ; and therefore it being indulgence to admit them at all , it is in the churches power to admit as far and to what she pleases . this is the only rational way i can imagine , whereby you may defend the excluding the people from the cup : but this you dare not say ; and therefore are put to the weakest shifts imaginable to reconcile it with the institution of christ. some therefore say , that all these are words only of invitation and not of command , and that they only give a right , and not oblige men to do it . but if these be only words of invitation , what precept is there any where extant for the celebration of the eucharist ? that they are an invitation we deny not ; but we say they are such an invitation as imply a duty to come , too . when a father bids his children come and sit down at table , take and eat their meat : this is an invitation , but such as by reason of the authority of the person carry a command with them . so it is here , christ invites to come , to take , eat , and drink ; but so that it implyes a command that men should come ; or else it must be wholly left at mens liberty , so that it is no sin for men to neglect or refuse to come . and if the institution of christ only gives men a liberty to take , eat , and drink , without any obligation to these things as a duty , how comes the administration of the eucharist at all to become a duty , since there are no other words of command then what are contained in the institution ? which others being sensible of , they most unreasonably distinguish between taking and eating , which they make an absolute command , and , drinking all of this , which they say is only a conditional precept : and the reason they give , is , because st. paul saith , this do ye as oft as ye drink it in remembrance of me ; and so , say they , do this , doth not imply a command for the doing it , but only the relation which that action hath to the death of christ when they do it ; for those words , as oft as you do it , do suppose it not to be simply necessary , but only shew , when they do it , to what purpose it should be done . but if there be any weight in this , it will as well hold still concerning the participation of the bread , as well as the cup ; for , as the apostle saith this do ye as oft as ye drink it in remembrance of me , so he adds in the words immediately following , for as often as ye eat this bread and drink this cup , ye do shew forth the lords death till he come . if therefore it notes only the relation of the action to its end without a command for performance in the one , it must do so in the other also . and so all the sacrament will be a meer matter of liberty in the church , whether men will observe it or no. but bellarmin with wonderful subtilty hath found a command for the one and not the other ; which is , that in luke after the bread , christ saith , this do in remembrance of me , but omits it wholly after the cup ; by which , saith he , we are to understand , that christ commanded that the sacrament should be administred to all under the species of bread , but not under that of wine . and this he is so transported with , that in a rapture he admires the wonderful providence of god in the scripture , who by this means hath taken away all possibility of evasion from the hereticks . so it should seem indeed , when even his brethren the jesuits can scarce hold laughing at this subtilty . since , st. paul puts that expression , this do in remembrance of me , not after the bread , but after the cup. and therefore may we not more justly admire at the providence of god in thus suffering men who will not see the truth under a pretence of subtilty , to infatuate themselves . and although it be added here , as oft as ye do it , yet both vasquez and suarez ingenuously confess , that contains under it a command for the doing it . for saith vasquez , qui praecipit ut opere aliquo commemoratio fiat alicujus beneficii accepti , ex modo ipso praecipiendi praecipit etiam ut fiat opus ipsum . quis hoc non videat ? he that commands that by something to be done a commemoration should be made of a benefit received ; from the manner of commanding it , he doth command that very action to be done . who doth not see this ? and suarez saith , those words , do this , or with that addition , in remembrance of me , or with that condition , as oft as ye do it , ad eundem sensum referuntur , come all to the same purpose . so that still it follows , if there be a command for one , there is for the other also . but yet there is a subtilty beyond any of these ; which is , that christ in those words in luke after the distribution of the bread , hoc facite , do this , did make the apostles priests ; and therefore , although they did receive the bread as believers , yet they received the cup as priests , and so that belongs only to the priests and not to the people . what will not these men prove which they have a mind to ! but it is their unhappiness , that their own subtilties do them the most mischief , as appears by these things consequent from hence ; which are repugnant to their own principles . . that priests not consecrating , ought to receive the cup , as well as those that do . for it is plain , that the apostles did not consecrate now , but only receive ; and therefore this belongs to them as receiving , and not as consecrating . and by the same reasons that priests not-consecrating may receive , others may receive too . . that if they were made priests by those words , after the distribution of the bread , then they have no power to consecrate , but only the bread . for the words are , hoc facite , do this , i. e. that which christ had then done . otherwise , if those words be taken with reference to the cup , then if the apostles received the bread as believers , they received the cup so too : for these words , do this , must not relate to their receiving , but to their power of consecration . . if this be taken generally , do this , and so giving them a power to do all that christ did , then it will amount to a precept for all who administer to follow christs example in the institution . and therefore , as he did administer , the cup , as well as the bread , to all that were present , then all others will be bound to do so , if their power of administration be derived from these words , do this , and they referr to the whole action of christ. but i know what answer will be here given , that these words relate to the sacrifice , and not to the sacrament , hoc facite , implying their power of sacrificing , as to which they say , both elements are necessary , but not to the sacrament . but . not to enter on the dispute about the sacrifice ; if both elements be necessary to it , then it was great reason that the words makeing them priests , should come after both elements , and therefore it cannot in reason be deduced from those words which are spoken only after the bread . . if these words relate to the sacrifice , and not to the sacrament , by what authority do they administer the sacrament ? what other words are there to give them a power to do the one distinct from them , whereby they pretend a right for the other . . there is no evidence at all from antiquity , that hoc facite hath any respect to the eucharist as a sacrifice , or to the making the apostles priests . and so much is confessed by estius , viz. that neither is this exposition found in any ancient writer , nor is it suitable to our saviours purpose . for , he saith , it is not absolutely said , facite , but , hoc facite , i. e. that which ye see me do , do ye likewise . so that still , by virtue of these words , those who do receive authority to administer , are bound to follow christs example , and that as he did administer in both kinds to all who were present , so ought they to do likewise . but there is one exception yet more left , which is the last reserve , viz. that although it be granted to be a command , that the cup should be administred to all , yet it is only a positive command , binding in the general ; but yet it is of the nature of all affirmative precepts , that though it alwaies binds , yet not at all times , but only in case of necessity , of which necessity the church is the most competent judge ; and therefore if the church do not think it necessary , then the obligation ceases . to which i answer , . that upon this ground it will be in the churches power to repeal or suspend all divine positive precepts as well as this . for the reason of this will hold for all others , which is , that they do not oblige , as they speak , ad semper , but only semper , i. e. not at all times , though they never cease to oblige . and therefore on this ground , for all that i can see , the church may as well repeal the use of baptism , or the eucharist it self , as the communion in both kinds ; all being of of an equal nature , as affirmative precepts . but , is it possible to imagine that christ appointing positive institutions in his church , and giving precepts and plain directions about them , should yet leave it in the power of any men to reverse , alter , suspend the obligation to the performance of those commands ? did not he foresee all cases of necessity , when he first appointed these things , and , if notwithstanding that , he makes a plain command , for the observance of them ; what can such a pretended power in the church signifie , but an authority to alter or repeal what she pleases in the laws of christ ? . there is a great deal of difference between the nature of the obligation of affirmative precepts , and the prohibiting the use of something positively commanded . for , although positive precepts do not bind at all times , yet that reaches only to the thing it self , and not to the mode of performance . thus we say , that the eucharist being a positive institution , doth not oblige men at all times to be partakers of it ; but if on that account any church should undertake to forbid the celebration of it , this were a direct violation of the law it self , and not an interpretation of it in regard of circumstances . and what ever obligation of this nature there is , it respects the whole duty ; but it doth by no means follow , that therefore in the celebration the church may declare what may be used , and what not . for the manner of performance in case it be performed at all , is absolutely commanded ; it is only the performance in general , which is of the nature of a positive precept . thus we say , men are not bound to pray at all times , though they be alwaies bound to pray ; but in case men do pray , they are indispensably bound to pray as god hath required them to do it . so we say here , that men are not bound at all times to administer , or receive the eucharist ; but , in case they do , they are indispensably bound to receive it according to christ's institution . so that this of communion in both kinds , relates to the manner of a positive precept , and is not a distinct positive precept by it self ; and therefore is indispensably by any authority of the church . besides , your church doth not meerly suspend the exercise of this in case of necessity , but forbids men the doing it , which is a direct and wilful violation of the institution of christ. and therefore the question is not as it is strangely perverted by some of you , whether it be necessary at all times to receive the cup ( although even that be true in case of receiving at all ) but , whether it be in the churches power at all to prohibit the receiving it ; and this we say , and are ready to make good to be a presumptuous violation of the laws of christ , and an usurping an authority which may as well extend to all positive institutions . and thus i hope i have made that appear , which you say his lordship should have done , viz. that christ did so institute the sacrament of his last supper , that he would , not have one part to be administred without the other , nor one part to be taken without the other . the same i might also at large shew , from the reasons of this institution , that they do equally belong to the people , as well as the priests , and that those reasons are of a nature as unalterable as the institution it self ; whereby i should have shewed the vanity of your distinction of the eucharist into a sacrament , and a sacrifice , and the absurdity of your doctrine of concomitancy ; but that would be too large for our present design ; and that which you give me not sufficient ground to enter upon , since the obligation is sufficiently cleared from the institution it self . i therefore proceed to shew , that the primitive church did alwaies understand the communion in both kinds to be an indispensible part of the institution of christ. which one would think were evident enough from s. paul , in his bringing the corinthians back to the primitive institution , as that unalterable rule which they were to observe . for if , because of some ill customs which had obtained amongst them , he tells them , this is not to eat the lords supper ; how much more would he have said so , if there had been an mutilation of the parts of it ? and all along in his discourse he supposes christs institution to be the indispensable rule which they ought to observe ; that which i have received of the lord , i delivered unto you : not , certainly , to leave it in their power , whether they would observe it or no , but to shew them , what their duty was , and what they ought unalterably to observe . else he would never have told them so much of the danger of unworthy receiving , in eating the bread , and drinking the cup of the lord unworthily ; for , can we possibly think , that the rudeness of their access to the lords table was so great a sin , and the violation of his institution to be none at all ? the apostles were such strangers to the doctrine of concomitancy , that still both eating and drinking were supposed then , even by the most unworthy receivers . there were then no such fears of the effusion of the blood of christ , or the irreverence in receiving it , and much less of the long beards of the laity ; which are the worshipful reasons given by gerson and others , why the people should not be admitted to the use of the chalice . i do verily think the apostles had as much care to preserve the due reverence of the sacrament , as ever the councils of constance or trent had ; but they thought it no way to preserve the reverence of the sacrament , by shewing so little to christ , as not to observe his institution . but you very kindly grant that which you knew was impossible to be denied , viz. that in ancient times , when , you say , the number of christians was small , it was the ordinary custom for all that would ( the laity as well as others ) to receive the eucharist in both kinds ; but , say you , we averr , this custom proceeded meerly out of free devotion , and not out of any belief , that it was absolutely necessary so to do , by virtue of christs precept . it is no great matter what you averr , since you averr so monstrous a doctrine of transubstantiation , as confidently as you do this , and with much alike reason . for i have shewed already , that the institution of christ in reference to this , is perpetually obligatory , and that the apostles look upon that as an unalterable rule , and therefore your averring signifies nothing , when you never offer to prove what you averr . but , i pray tell me , by what means would you understand what precepts are perpetually obligatory , which are not clear to our present purpose ? if positive command , immutable reason , universal practice of the church may prove any thing so , we have all these plain and clear for communion in both kinds . and not the least suspition or intimation given , that they looked on it as a matter of free devotion , but of indispensable necessity . but , what mean you in saying , when the number of christians was small , they received it in both kinds ? do christs institutions vary according to the numbers of communicants ? hath not christ the same power to oblige many as a few ? or , do you think the numbers of breakers of his institution make the fault the less ? but , when was it the number of christians was so small ? only in the apostles times , or as long as the custom lasted of communicating in both kinds ? do you think the number of christians was so small in the primitive times ? if you do , you lamentably discover your ignorance in the history of those times : read the christians apologies over , and you will believe the contrary . but , did this small number continue in the time of the christian emperours , even till after a thousand years after christ ? for so long the communion in both kinds continued so inviolably , that neither you , nor any before you , are able to produce one instance of a publick and solemn celebration of the eucharist in the church wherein the people did not communicate in both kinds . and , could a matter so indifferent as you suppose this to be , meet with no persons all this time , who out of reverence to the blood of christ , should deny giving it to the people ? nothing then but an unmeasurable confidence , and a resolution to say any thing , though never so false or absurd ( if it tend to the interest of your church ) could make you say , that communion in one kind was alwaies , even in the first five or six hundred years , allowed publickly as well in the church , as out of it . than which , if you had studied it , you could scarce have uttered a greater untruth ; and in which there are such multitudes of your own party bearing witness against you . and bellarmin is so far from helping you out in it , that he is extremely at a loss to offer at any thing which hath any tendency that way . but before we come to consider the instances and exceptions you make , we must somewhat further see , what the practice and sense of the church was , that we may the better judge , whether communion in both kinds were looked on as a matter only of free devotion , or as something necessary by virtue of christs institution . and for this i shall not insist on those multitudes of testimonies , which manifest the practice it self , but briefly touch at some few , which more directly prove , that what they did , was , because in doing otherwise , they should have violated the institution of christ. to pass by therefore the testimonies of justin martyr , irenaeus , clemens alexandrinus , tertullian , all clear for the practice ; the first i insist on , is that of s. cyprian against those who gave water in the chalice , instead of wine ; for , whosoever doth but read the very entrance of that epistle , will soon find that he looked on christs institution in all the parts of it as unalterable . for ( saith he ) although i know , that most bishops do keep to that which agrees with the truth of the gospel , and what our lord hath delivered ; and do not depart from that which christ our master hath commanded and practised : yet because some , either through ignorance , or simplicity , in sanctifying the cup of our lord , and delivering it to the people , do not that which jesus christ our lord and god , the authour and teacher of this sacrifice , did and taught ; i have thought it a necessary part of my duty to write to you , that if any one continue in that errour , he may , by discovering the light of truth , return to the root and fountain of our lords tradition . i insist on this testimony , not only for the clearness of it , as to the custom of giving the cup to the people ; but especially for the evidence contained in it , of the unalterable nature of the institution of christ. for that he looks on as the great fault of them who ministred water instead of wine , that they therein departed from the example and precept of christ. now there cannot be produced any greater evidence of any obligation as to this , than there is as to the giving the cup it self . for here is christs example and institution equally as to both of them , and that in the same words , drink ye all of it . if that were such a departing from the institution to alter the liquor , would it not have been accounted as great , to take away the cup wholly ? for afterwards he adds , if men ought not to break the least of christs commands , how much less those great ones which pertain to the sacrament of our lords passion , and our redemption ? or to change it into any thing , but that which was appointed by him ? and if not to change the matter , certainly neither can it be lawful to order the administration otherwise than christ appointed . i know bellarmin saith , the parity of reason will not hold , because this is to corrupt the matter of the sacrament : but s. cyprian doth not insist on that as his reason , but the departing from the institution of christ , and this is done by one as well as the other . but he adds , that there was a precept for that , do this . and so , say we , was there as plain for the other , drink ye all of this . so that the parity of reason is evident for the one as well as the other . upon the same ground doth pope julius afterwards condemn the using milk instead of wine , because contrary to christs institution ; and so he doth the dipping the bread in the chalice : from whence we inferr , that they looked on christs example and institution in the administration to be unalterable . but most express is the testimony of pope gelasius , who finding some , from the remainders of manichaism , did abstain from the cup , gives express order , that they who were infected with this odde superstition , either should receive the whole sacrament , or abstain wholly from it ; because the dividing one and the same mystery , cannot be done without great sacriledge . to this , bellarmin tells us , two answers are commonly given ; one , that these words are meant of priests ; another , that they relate only to those superstitious persons ; but both of them are sufficiently taken off by the reason assigned , which is not fetched either from their priesthood , or superstition , but only from the institution of christ , that it would be sacriledge to part those things , which christ by his institution had joyned together . thus we see , the sense of the church is clear , not only for the practice , but the command too ; and the sinfulness of the violation of it . although to you one would think it were wholly needless to prove any more than the vniversal practice , since the tradition of the church is equal with you , with an unwritten word ; but that is , when it makes for your purpose , and not otherwise . for in this case , though the institution be express , the universal practice of the church for at least a thousand years unquestionable ; yet because it contradicts the present sense and practice of your church , all this signifies nothing at all with you . so true is it , that it is neither scripture nor antiquity , which you really regard , but interest and the present church . and what cusanus , like a downright man , spake out in this case , is that you must all at last take sanctuary in , that the scriptures must be interpreted according to the current practice of the church ; and therefore it is no wonder if they be interpreted at one time one way , and another time another way . and though this seem a very great absurdity , yet it is no more than is necessary to be said by such who maintain things so contrary to scripture , and the practice of former ages of the church . but you are so far from thinking this contrary to the practice of the church in former ages , that you say , not only in s. thomas his time , but in all times of the church , it was both publickly allowed , and commonly by some practised even in churches , to receive under one kind only . a bold assertion , and which is confidently denied by very many of your own communion . for not only cassander often confesses , that for above a thousand years after christ , no instance can be produced of publick communion in one kind : but father barns acknowledges not only that communion in both kinds , is much more agreeable to scripture , fathers , and the vniversal church , but that per se loquendo jure divino praescribitur , taking it in it self , it is commanded by a divine law. but i know these men are too honest for you to own them , but as to the universal practice of the church it is confessed by , ruardus , alphonsus à castro , lindanus , and many others . but we need no more than your s. thomas himself , even in that very place , where you say , he rather makes for you , than against you ; for , when he saies , that providè in quibusdam ecclesiis observatur ut populo sanguis non detur , it was a custom providently observed in some churches , not to give the sacrament in the form of wine to the laity ; he thereby shews indeed , that in his time about a. d. . this custom did in some places obtain , but yet so , that the universal practice had been to the contrary ; for so much is confessed by him in his commentaries on s. john , where his words are , secundum antiquam in ecclesiâ consuetudinem omnes sicut communicabant corpori , ita communicabant & sanguini , quod etiam adhuc in quibusdam ecclesiis servatur . according to the anceint custom of the church , all did communicate in both kinds , which as yet is observed in some churches . now , whether the universal practice of the church in former times , or the practice of some churches in his time , were more agreeable to the divine institution , we may appeal to aquinas himself , who elsewhere gives this account , why the elements of bread and wine , were made use of , and delivered severally , that they might denote a complete refection , and fully represent the death and passion of our saviour . on the same accounts , bonaventure and alensis make both kinds necessary to the integrity of the sacrament . and the latter ( who was master to the two former ) saies expresly , that whole christ is not contained sacramentally under either kinds ; but his flesh under that of bread , and his blood under that of wine . than which nothing can be more destructive to the doctrine of concomitancy . and it is learnedly proved by pet. picherellus , that the bread was appointed to represent not the body in its compleat substance , but the meer flesh , when the blood is out of it , according to the division of the sacrifices into flesh and blood ; from whence it appears , that the sacrifice of christs death cannot be represented meerly by one kind , and that whole christ is not contained under one , in the administration of it . and therefore alensis rightly determines , that the res sacramenti cannot be perfectly represented by one kind ; and thence sayes , he that receives but in one kind , doth not receive the sacrament perfectly . no wonder therefore that he tells us , that some religious persons in his time ( when the contrary custom , through the superstition of people , had somewhat prevailed ) did earnestly desire that the sacrament might again be received in both kinds . thus we see , when this custom did begin , reason and argument was still against it , and nothing pleaded for it , but only some superstitious fears of some accidental effusions of the blood of christ. but you are the man , who would still perswade us , that communion in one kind was not only publickly allowed , but by some practised even in churches in all times of the church . and therefore in reason we must give attendance to your impregnable demonstrations of it . for otherwise , say you , how is it possible that the manichees should find liberty and opportunity to communicate amongst catholicks in catholick churches , without being perceived , since they never drank wine , nor communicated under the form of wine ? as 't is certain they frequently did in s. leo 's time , and after . but you have very unhappily light of this for your first proof , which is so evident against you . for leo , who mentions the manichees communicating in catholick churches , tells the catholicks , what way they might discern them from themselves , viz. that though they received the bread , yet they refused the wine ; by which , saith he , you may discover their sacrilegious hypocrisie , and by that means they may be expelled out of the society of catholicks . you were therefore very ill advised , to make choice of this for your argument , which makes it plain , that all catholicks did receive in both kinds , and that the manichees might be thereby known that they did not . and if it were the custom for the catholicks sometimes to receive in both kinds , and sometimes not , ( which is all the shift bellarmin hath ) and the manichees not at all , this could be no note of distinction between them ; for , although the manichees might not receive at one time , they could not tell but they might at another . now leo's intention being , to give such a note of distinction , that they might not receive at all among them , it evidently follows , that all the catholicks did constantly receive in both kinds , and that they were only manichees who did abstain from the cup. for that story which bellarmin insists on , and you referr to , of the woman , who being a macedonian heretick , yet pretending to communicate with the catholicks , had the bread which her maid brought with her , and which she took instead of the eucharist , turned into a stone in her mouth , upon which she runs presently to the bishop , and with tears confessed her fault , as we take it wholly upon the faith of sozomen , from whom nicephorus transcribes it , so i cannot imagine what it proves for your purpose , unless it be , that they in whose mouths the bread turns into a stone too , will hardly have patience till the cup be administred to them . for so both sozomen and nicephorus relate it , that immediately upon her feeling it to be a stone , she ran to the bishop , and shewed him the stone , acknowledging with tears her miscarriage . but besides this , you bring several instances from the communion of hermites in the wilderness , of travellers on their journeys , of sick persons in their beds , and private communions in houses , and lastly , little children in the church , and at home in their cradles , which communicated in form of wine only . and , are not all these invincible proofs , that there was a publick , solemn administration of the communion in one kind publickly allowed in churches in all times ? when you can prove that the communion of hermites was in the church , or that they did not receive as well the wine as the bread in the wilderness , or that such communion was approved by the church : that the communion of travellers was not meer communion in prayers , as baronius and albaspinaeus assert , without any participation of the eucharist at all ; or if it were , that it was only a participation in one kind ( against which albaspinaeus gives many reasons : ) that the communion of the sick was without wine , when justin martyr saith , that both bread and wine were sent to the absent : when eusebius tells us , that the bread given to serapion , was dipt ; when s. hierom saith of exuperius , that he preserved the blood in a glass for the use of the sick : that private communions were without wine , since gregory nazianzen saith ; his sister gorgonia , preserved both the symbols of the body and blood of christ ; and albaspinaeus confesses , that one might be carried home as well as the other ; or that these were approved by the church , since durantus saith , that the use of private communions coming up by persecutions , were abrogated afterwards ; and are expresly condemned by the council of caesar-augusta about the year . and the first council of toledo , about a. d. . lastly , that the communion of infants was only in one kind either in the church or at home , or that this communion of infants which the council of trent condemns , was a due administration of the eucharist : when i say you have proved all these things , the utmost you can hence inferr , is , only that in some rare cases , and accidental occasions , communion in one kind was allowed of . but what is all this to the proving that the stated , solemn administration of the eucharist in one kind was ever practised , much less allowed , within a thousand years after christ. and yet if you could prove that , you fall short of vindicating your church , unless you add this , which you never so much as touch at , viz. that it was ever in all that time thought lawful to forbid the celebration of the eucharist in both kinds . prove but this , which is your only proper task , and i say as his lordship doth in another case , you shall be my apollo for ever . we proceed to a fourth errour , which is the invocation of saints defined by the council of trent . as to which , that which his lordship saith may be reduced to three things , . that those expressions of the fathers which seem most to countenance it are but rhetorical flourishes . . that the church then did not admit of the invocation of saints , but only of the commemoration of martyrs . . that the doctrine of the roman church makes the saints more then mediatours of intercession . to these three i shall confine my discourse on this subject , and therefore shall follow you close in your answers to them . for the first , when you are proving that the fathers expressions were not rhetorical flourishes , you would fain have your own accounted so . for , say you , how can it seem to any that duly considers it , but most extreamly partial and strange to term so many exhortations , so many plain and positive assertions , so many instances , examples , histories , reports and the like , which the fathers frequently use , and afford in this kind ( and that upon occasions wherein dogmatical and plain delivery of christian doctrine and truth is expected ) nothing but flourishes of wit and rhetorick ? and after , you call these meer put-off's , as before you had said , that when any thing in the fathers is against us , then it is rhetorick only ; when against you , then it is dogmatical and the real sense of the fathers . but these are only general words , fit only to deceive such who believe bold affirmations sooner then solid proofs . this is a thing must be tryed by particulars , because it is on both sides acknowledged , that the fathers did many times use their rhetorick , and that such things are uttered by them , in their panegyrical orations especially , which will not abide a severe tryal . doth not bellarmin confess that st. chrysostome doth often hyperbolize , and sixtus senensis say as much of others , that in the heat of their discourses they are carried beyond what they would have said in a strict debate ? but who are better judges of these things then the fathers themselves ? are they not the men , who have bid us distinguish what comes from them in a heat , from that which they deliver as the doctrine of the church ? have not they told us , that the popular orations uttered in churches are no rules of opinion ? have not some of them , when they have seemed extream vehement and earnest , at last come off with this , that they have been declaiming all that while ? witness st. hierome against helvidius ; and if you make not use of the same rule to put a favourable construction on his books against jovinian , vigilantius , ruffinus and others , you will as little be able to excuse him from strange doctrines , as from intemperate heats . what put-off then is it for us to say , that st. basil in his oration on mammas , and the forty eight martyrs ; that s. gregory nazianzen in his panegyrical orations on st. basil , st. athanasius , st. cyprian , his sister gorgonia , st. gregory nyssen in his commendation of theodorus , do make use of their rhetorick in apostrophe's to the persons whom they praise , without any solemn invocation of them ? what is there herein unsuitable to their present purpose ? is it any more then oratours have commonly done ? what strange thing is it then , that those great masters of rhetorick should make use of their art to raise the people , not only to a high esteem of their persons , but of those vertues which rendred them so illustrious . might not such expressions by way of apostrophe be still used by such who are furthest from the invocation of saints ? although by their example we are taught how dangerous it is to indulge rhetorick too much in such cases . but as though they foresaw the ill use would be made of them , they add such expressions as sufficiently tell us , they made no solemn invocation of them ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the like . had these persons a mind to deliver a doctrine of invocation of saints , who speak with such hesitation and doubt as to their sense of what was spoken ? ( for it is a groundless shift , to say , that those expressions imply an affirmation and not doubt . ) that which we say then , is this , that the doctrine of the church is not to be judged by such encomiastick orations , wherein such rhetorical flourishes are usual ; and when you bring us their plain and positive assertions , we will by no means give you that answer , that those are flourishes of wit and rhetorick . but his lordship very well knew , how far you were from any such dogmatical assertions of the fathers in this point , and that the most plausible testimonies which you had were taken out of those three great oratours in their panegyricks in praise of their friends , or of the martyrs ; and therefore it was he said , though some of the ancient fathers have some rhetorical flourishes about it , for the stirring up devotion ( as they thought ) yet the church then admitted not of the invocation of saints . that is it we stand on , that no such thing was admitted by the church , if we should yield that any particular ( though great ) persons were too lavish in their expressions this way ; must these be the standard which we must judge of the doctrine of the church by ? we must consider the church was now out of persecution , and ease and honour attended that profession of christianity , for which such multitudes had endured the flames ; and the people began to grow more loose and vain then when they still expected martyrdoms : this made these great men so highly commend the martyrs in their popular orations , not to propound them as objects of invocation , but as examples for their imitation . thence they encouraged them to frequent the memoriae martyrum , that by their assemblies in those places they might revive something of that pristine heat of devotion , which was now so much abated among them . but the event was so far from answering their expectation , that by this means they grew by degrees to place much of their religion , rather in honouring the former martyrs and saints then in striving to imitate them in their vertues and graces . and from the frequenting the places where the martyrs were enshrined through the pretence of some extatical dreams and visions , or some rare occurrences which they say happened at those places , they began to turn their real honour into superstitious devotion , which at last ended in solemn invocation . to which no small encouragement was given when such persons as s. hierom and others , were so far from putting a stop to the growing evil , that though they confessed many miscarriages committed , yet they rather sought to palliate them and make the best construction of them , still hoping that this zeal in the people to the honour of the martyrs would promote devotion among them ; whereas it sunk gradually into greater superstitions . this i take to be the truest and most faithful account of those first beginnings and tendencies to invocation of saints , which appeared in the latter end of the fourth century . for before that time we meet with nothing that can bear the face of any positive and plain assertions , instances , examples , histories , or reports tending that way . which is so clear , that cardinal perron after the best use of his wit and diligence to find out something to this purpose within the three first centuries , at last confesses , that in the authours who lived nearer the apostles times no footsteps can be found of the invocation of saints . but when he gives this account of it , that most of the writings of that time are lost , it makes us see what poor excuses bad causes will drive the greatest wits to . for are not the writings of justin martyr , irenaeus , clemens alexandrinus , origen , tertullian , cyprian , arnobius , lactantius and others still extant , who were pious and learned men ? and is it possible that such men should all of them conceal such a doctrine as this , which would so easily appear in the face of the church ? but it is well we have the confession of so great a man for the best ages of the church ; and not only so , but he acknowledges withall , that there is neither precept nor example for it in the scripture . which others not only assert , but offer to give reasons for it , for the old testament : because the fathers were not then admitted to the beatifical vision : and for the new testament , because the apostles were men of such piety and humility , that they would not admit of it themselves , and therefore made no mention of it in their writings ; and withall , because in the beginning of christianity there would have been a suspicion , that they had only changed the names of heathen deities , and retained the same kinds of worship . these for the new testament we admit of , not as rhetorical flourishes , but as plain and positive assertions which contain a great deal of truth and reason in them . so that here is a confessed silence as to this doctrine throughout all the story of scripture , and for three hundred years and more after christ ; and in all this time we meet with no such assertions , instances , examples , reports , and the like , which tend to establish this new doctrine . but in stead of this , we meet with very plain assertions to the contrary , back'd with strong and invincible reasons ; and herein not to insist on those places in scripture which appropriate invocation to god only , and that in regard of his incommunicable attributes of omnisciency , and infinite goodness and power , which are the only foundations given in scripture for invocation ; nor to mention those places , where all tendencies to such kind of worship of any created being , are severely checked ; and wherein an inferiour and relative worship is condemned on this account , because all worship is due to god only ; and wherein that very pretence of humility , in not coming to god , but through some mediatour is expresly spoken against ; nor to inlarge how much this doctrine of invocation of saints is injurious to god , by giving that worship to creatures which belongs only to himself , and how repugnant it is to divine wisdom , that prayers should be made to saints for them to intercede with god , when they cannot know what those prayers are till god reveals them ; nor how dishonourable it is to christ , both in regard of his merits and intercession ; nor how great a check it is to true piety to put men to pray to them , whom they can have no ground to believe do hear or regard their prayers , and in the mean time to take them off from their serious and solemn addresses to god. not to insist , i say , on these things , because i design no set discourse on this subject , which hath been so amply handled by so many already ; i shall only discover the sense of the primitive church in this particular by two things , the one of which takes in the first three centuries , and the other extends a great deal farther : from which i doubt not , but to make it evident how farr the invocation of saints was from being received then . the first is , from the answers given to the heathens , when it was objected against the christians that they did worship dead men and angels . i confess , some have been so subtle as from hence to inferr that they did it ; or else , say they , the heathens would never have charg'd them with it . but they who read the christians apologies will find farr more unreasonable things than this laid to their charge , and i hope they will not say , there must be an equal ground for all the other imputations also . but it seems they more believe the heathens objections then the christians answers , who utterly disavow any such thing . the first mention we find of any such imputation , is in that excellent epistle of the church of smyrna to the church of philomylium concerning the martyrdome of polycarpe , wherein they tell us ; how some suggested to nicetas , that he should desire the proconsul that polycarp's body might not be granted to the christians ; lest , say they , they should leave to worship him that was crucified , and worship him ; to which they return this excellent answer . they are ignorant that we can never be induced to forsake christ , who suffered for the salvation of all who shall be saved of the whole world , or to worship any other for him being the son of god we adore . but the martyrs as the disciples and followers of the lord , we love worthily for their exceeding great affection toward their own king and master , of whom we wish that we may be partners and disciples . can any thing be more express then this is , to shew what difference they put between christ and the martyrs ? not that they worshipped one as god with an absolute direct worship , and the other as subordinate intercessours , with a relative and indirect worship , as you would have told them ; but they worship'd christ and none but him , because he was the son of god ; but for the martyrs they loved them indeed , but they worship'd them not at all , for so much is implyed in the antithesis between that and their worship of christ. so that these words are exclusive of any kind of worship which they gave to the martyrs ; for they were so far from giving them that worship which belonged to the son of god , that they only expressed their love to them , without giving them any worship . and in the old latin translation of this epistle , of which there are two mss. extant in england ; when they say , they can worship none else but christ , it is there rendred , neque alteri cuiquam precem orationis impendere , nor impart the supplication of prayer to any other . as the late learned lord primat vsher hath observed ; which utterly destroyes the doctrine of invocation . we proceed further to see what account origen gives of the christian doctrine touching invocation in his answer to celsus , wherein he had sufficient occasion given him to declare the sense of the church at that time . and if he had known or approved any relative worship given to angels or saints , it is not conceivable that he should express himself in such a manner as he doth . for when celsus enquires what kind of beings they thought angels to be , origen answers , that although the scripture sometimes calls them gods , it is not with that intention that we ought to worship them . for , saith he , all prayers , and supplications , and intercessions , and thanksgivings are to be sent up to god the lord of all , by the high-priest who is above all angels , being the living word and god. for to call upon angels ( we not comprehending the knowledge of them , which is above the reach of man ) is unreasonable . and supposing it were granted that the knowledge of them , which is wonderful and secret , might be comprehended : this very knowledge declaring their nature to us , and the charge over which every one of them is set , would not permit us to presume to pray unto any other but god the lord of all , who is abundantly sufficient for all , by our saviour the son of god. in which testimony , we clearly see what the judgement of the church then was concerning invocation ; for in a matter of divine worship equally concerning the whole church , we have no reason to imagine that origen should deliver any private opinion of his own . and herein we are plainly told , that all prayers and supplications are to be made to god only through christ , that in such cases where we are ignorant of the nature of beings , it is unreasonable for us to pray to them ( as we certainly are concerning separated souls as well as angels ) ; that in case we did know them , yet it would not be reasonable to pray to them , both because they are inferiour and ministring spirits , and that god himself is abundantly sufficient for all through christ. now let any reasonable man judge , whether these arguments do not hold as well against a relative and subordinate invocation , as absolute and soveraign . but no such distinctions were thought of then . for they judged all prayer and invocation , by the very nature of it , to import divinity in that it was made to , and therefore that no created beings how excellent soever were capable of it . from whence origen afterwards supposing the sun , moon , and starrs to be intellectual beings , gives this account , why , notwithstanding that , they made no prayers to them . for , saith he , since they offer up prayers themselves to god through his only son , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we judge that we ought not to pray to them that pray . since they would rather send us to god whom they pray to , then bring us down to themselves , or to divide our praying vertue from god , to themselves . can we then suppose that the church at that time did allow of prayers to be made to saints in heaven , supposing their praying there in behalf of the church on earth ? for we see origen goes on this ground , that all intellectual spirits which pray themselves , are not to be prayed too ; and that if they knew of our praying to them , they would send us to god and not accept of those supplications to themselves which are due only to god. in the beginning of the eighth book , celsus disputes against the christians because they worship only the supreme god , without giving any to the inferiour daemons ; and that upon this ground , because , saith he , they who worship the inferiour gods , acknowledging them inferiour , is so far from dishonouring the supreme , that he doth that which is acceptable to him . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for he that honours and worships those who are subject to him , doth not displease god whose they are all . these are celsus his words ; from whence we are to take notice , that celsus doth not plead for absolute and soveraign worship to be given to these inferiour deities or spirits , but only a relative and subordinate worship . so that if the controversie had been between celsus and a modern romanist , all that celsus here sayes must have been confessed on both sides , and the whole dispute only have been concerning those daemons or spirits which were to have this relative and inferiour kind of worship , viz. whether those which celsus call'd daemons , or only the blessed spirits and glorified saints . but origen who went upon other grounds returns a far different answer ; for , saith he , it is not lest we should hurt god that we abstain from the worship of any but god according to this word ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to render the inferiour worship of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to any but god ) but lest we should thereby hurt our selves , by separating our selves from our portion in god. and the reason he gives why christ is to be worship'd is , from that divinity which manifested it self in him , and because of the unity of nature between god and him . and although origen saith , that in some sense we may be said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to give some kind of worship to angels and archangels ; yet he saith , the sense of the word must be purg'd , and the actions of the worshippers distinguished . yet in the following words he attributes that worship which is by supplication only to god and his only son. so that still he reserves the offering up our prayers as the appropriate worship to god himself , through his only son. for to him , saith he , we first offer them , intreating him who is the propitiation for our sins , that he would vouchsafe as our high priest to offer our prayers , sacrifices , and intercessions to god over all . therefore our faith is only in god through his son , who hath confirmed it to us . and afterwards , away ( saith he ) with celsus his counsel , that we should worship daemons ( or inferiour spirits not taking them in the worst sense ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for we must only pray to god over all , and to the word of god , his only begotten , and first born of all creatures ; and we must entreat him , that he as high priest , would present our prayer , when it is come to him , unto his god , and our god , and unto his father , and the father of them that frame their life according to the word of god. to the same purpose again in another place ; to whom we offer our first fruits , to him we direct our prayers , having a high priest , who is entred into heaven , jesus the son of god ; and we hold fast this confession while we live , through the favour of god , and his son , who is manifested to us : and after saith , that the angels help forward their salvation , who call upon god , and pray sincerely , to whom they themselves also pray . but not one word of any praying to them , but only to god through christ. for , as he saith elsewhere , we must endeavour to please god only , who is over all , and pray that he may be propitious to us , procuring his good will with piety , and all kind of virtue . but if he will yet have us to procure the good will of any others , after him that is god over all ; let him consider , that as when the body is moved , the motion of the shadow doth follow it : so in like manner , having god favourable to us , who is over all , it followeth that we shall have all his friends , both angels , and souls , and spirits , favourable to us . for they have a sympathy with them , that are thought worthy to find favour with god. neither are they only favourable unto such as be worthy ; but they co-operate with them also that are willing to serve god over all , and are friendly to them , and pray with them , and intreat with them . so as we may be bold to say , that when men , who with a resolution , propose to themselves the best things , do pray unto god , many thousands of the sacred powers pray together with them uncalled upon . here indeed we find that saints and angels do intercede in heaven in behalf of the saints on earth , but that is not the thing in dispute between us : but here we find no such thing at all as an invocation of them ; but he sayes , they pray together with us , when we pray to god himself , not when we pray first to them to pray with us . for this origen makes to be wholly needless ; for if god be propitious to us , so will all the sacred powers be too . so that still we find in origen , that invocation was only to be made to god over all , although he saith , that with those who do sincerely call upon god , the holy spirits do joyn with them . to the same purpose arnobius speaks , when the heathens asked , why they did not worship any inferiour gods , satis est nobis , saith he , deus primus , the supreme god is sufficient for us . in hoc omne quod colendum est colimus ; quod adorari convenit adoramus , quod obsequium venerationis poscit , venerationibus promeremur . in worshipping him , we worship all that is to be worshipped ; we adore all , that is fit to be adored ; we procure favour by shewing reverence to all that require it . where we are still to take notice , that the heathens did not blame them for not giving the highest kind of worship to these inferiour deities , but for not worshipping them with the subordinate & relative worship , which they said belonged to them . now when in the answer he saith , that in worshiping god , they worship'd all that was to be worship'd ; he utterly destroies any such relative worship , which may be given to inferior spirits . for we are to consider , that the heathens themselves did not give the same kind of adoration to their heroes , and inferiour deities , which they did to him whom they accounted supreme . and , setting aside the difference of the object , i can find no possible difference between the invocation of saints in the church of rome , and that of daemons among the heathens . and althoug● bellarmin hath taken the greatest pains to clear the nature of that worship , which is given to saints ; yet , upon a thorow examination of it , we shall find that all his pleas would have held as well for the worship of daemons in the platonists sense of them , as they do for the worship of saints among christians . three things he tells us adoration consists in , an act of vnderstanding apprehending some excellency ; an act of the will , whereby we are inwardly inclined to do something by an internal , or external act , by which we declare our sense of that excellency , and our subjection to it ; and lastly , an external act , in which we bow or kneel , or shew some outward sign of subjection . now of these three he saith , the second is most proper and essential , because the first may be without adoration , and the last with irrision of that we pretend to worship . further he observes that there are so many sorts of adoration or worship , as there are degrees of excellency , of which he reckons three kinds , divine , humane , and between both , as the grace and glory of the saints : and that these several sorts of worship , according to these several excellencies , are not univocal , but analogical : and that they may be very well distinguished by the internal acts , for the inclination of the will is greater or less , according to the degree of excellency apprehended in the object . but as to the external acts , it is not easie to distinguish them ; for , almost all external acts , ( sacrifice only , and the things referring to it excepted ) are common to all kinds of adoration . this is the substance of what he hath , for explaining the nature of divine worship : and by which i cannot possibly see , but that kind of worship which was given by the heathens to their daemons , was defensible upon the same grounds that the invocations of saints is now . for as these apprehend a greater excellency in god , than in the saints ; so did they in the supreme god , than in those inferiour deities ; which they did not acknowledge to have an infinite nature in themselves , but only that they had the honour of being solemnly worshipped bestowed upon them . but this will be much clearer in the case of the heroes , or the apotheosis of the roman emperours , as augustus for instance . the roman senate decrees , that divine honours shall be given to augustus : we cannot think , that by virtue of this decree he assumed a divine nature , or became absolutely god , so that the act of the vnderstanding was of the same nature , which it would have been , supposing some roman-catholick should believe augustus to have been a saint : on which supposition , we will suppose a heathen and him to be at their prayers together to him . i pray now tell me , wherein lyes the difference , that one is idolatry , and the other is not : for neither of them suppose him to be the supreme god , both look on him as having a middle kind of excellency between god and man , the external actions are the same in both , and their apprehensions of excellency being equal , the inclinations of their wills to testifie their devotion must be equal too . if you answer me , that one looks on him as a saint , and the other doth not ; i may soon tell you , that is nothing to the purpose ; for , the question is not , whether he was a saint or no , but , whether the apprehension of a middle excellency between divine and humane , with a correspondent inclination of the will , testified by external acts of adoration be idolatry or no ? if it be idolatry in the one , it must be in the other ; for the ratio formalis is the same in both , viz. the apprehension of an excellency between divine and humane : for we are not enquiring , whether the apprehension be true or false , but , what the nature of that act of religion is , which is cons●quent upon such an apprehension . now if it were not idolatry in him ▪ that believed augustus to be a saint , and worshipped him ; how can it be made appear to be so in him , that believed him deified , or that divine honours did belong to him ? and if this be granted ; for my part , i cannot tell how you can excuse the primitive christians , that would rather suffer martyrdom , than worship the heathen emperours ; for , although they all thought it idolatry , yet upon these principles it could not be so ; but the worst that could be made of it , was this , that the senate took that upon it , which it had nothing to do with , because it belonged to the pope to canonize men , and not to the roman senate . for , let me put it seriously to you , whether you do not attribute the very same kind of authority to the pope now , which the roman senate challenged in the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of the roman emperours ? for , whosoever will compare the rites of canonization in bellarmin with the ancient rites of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , will find them exactly answering to each other . for , . they are put in a catalogue of saints , and must be owned by all for such . . invocantur in publicis ecclesiae precibus , they are prayed to in the publick prayers of the church . . temples and altars for their sake , are dedicated to god. . the sacrifices of the eucharist , of prayers , and praises , are publickly offered to god for their honour ; and then follow their festivals , images , relicks , &c. what was there more done then , that publick divine honours were made to the deified emperours ; not that these honours were wholly terminated upon them , but they thought the giving of this relative honour to them , did redound to the greater honour of the supreme deity ? so that we see , a new object of divine worship is solemnly appointed , upon the popes canonizing a saint ; and no pretence can be made to excuse this from idolatry , which would not have excused all those heathens from it , who believed there was one supreme deity , and yet allowed divine honours to be given to such spirits which were imployed by him , or attended on him . so that if the notion of idolatry must only lye in such an act of the will , which results from an apprehension of infinite excellency , which is only in the supreme being ; very few , if any , of the more intelligent heathens were ever guilty of it . but if the formal reason of their idolatry lay in offering up those devotions to that which was not god , which only belong to an infinite being ; i see not , but the same charge will hold on the same grounds , against those who invocate saints with those external acts of devotion , which are confessed to be the same with those wherewith we call on god. but nothing can be more unreasonable , than that bellarmin should except sacrifices , and things belonging thereto , from being common to the first and second sort of adoration , and not except invocation . for , is it possible to conceive any act which doth more express our sense of an infinite excellency , and the profession of our subjection to it , than invocation doth ? which doth it far more than sacrifice doth ; for that being a meer external act , is consistent with the greatest mockery of god ; but solemn invocation implies in its own nature our dependence upon god , and an acknowledgement of his infinite knowledge and power . for invocation lyes chiefly in the internal acts , and denotes primarily the inward desire of obtaining something from a being above our own : so that , though i should grant the meer external acts of bowing and kneeling to be common to adoration given to infinite and finite perfections ; yet i utterly deny that these acts are common to both , when the circumstances do determine the end and design of them . as no man by the meer bowing of abraham to the children of heth could tell , whether it were civil or divine adoration which he meant ; but none who understood all the circumstances of it , would have any reason to question it . but , suppose it had been declared before , that these men expected a more than civil adoration , and that all the rites of solemn invocation which abraham at any time used to god , must be used to them too ; then the same external acts must have received a new denomination . so that though the meer external acts be common to civil and religious worship , yet as those acts are considered with their several circumstances , they are appropriated to one or the other of them . thus , though a man may use the same form of words to an emperour on his throne , and the same external posture , which he doth use after his death in a temple consecrated to him ; yet in the one they are meerly signs of civil worship , but in the other they become testimonies of religious adoration . so , although in the invocation of saints , no other words were used , but such as denote them to be creatures still , yet if they be used with all the rites of solemn invocation ; in places appropriate to divine worship , and in sacred offices , they thereby declare the adoration intended to be greater than any meer creature is capable of . for we must consider , that as god is owned to be infinite in himself , and to have incommunicable perfections , so by reason of them there ought to be some appropriated acts or signs of worship , to declare our subjection to him ; which being determined for this end , either by the law of god , or the consent of people , the attributing of them to any else but him , is a publick violation of his honour . although in so doing , men profess that they intend them only as expressions of a lower kind of worship than is due to the supreme being . but in such cases the protestation avails not , where the fact is evident to the contrary . for when men in the most solemn manner , in publick places of devotion , and in sacred offices , do invocate saints , and yet think they dishonour not god by it , because they say , they do not worship them as god ; it is just as if a man should upon all occasions , in the presence-chamber , address himself to one of the king's subjects as to the king himself ; and being questioned for it , should only say , he did not dishonour the king by it , because he meant it not to him as a king , but as a subject . but by so much is the dishonour greater because the soveraignity of the king doth require that the rights of majesty should not be given to any subject whatsoever . so that it is but a vain pretence , when men use all the expressions whereby we declare our sense of the infinite perfections which are in god , to any creatures , to say , they give them not that worship which belongs to god , meerly because they do believe they are creatures still . but , is it possible for men to give the honour which is due to god , to the creatures , or no , acknowledging them to be creatures still ? or , is it not ? if not , then none of the heathens could be guilty of idolatry , in worshipping daemons , heroes , and deified emperours ; if it be possible , then the acknowledging the saints not to be god , cannot excuse men from the same kind of idolatry , in the invocation of them . and it is as frivolous a plea which is made for those forms of invocation which are made to the saints in plain terms , not to intercede with god for them , but to bestow upon them both temporal and spiritual blessings ( of which multitudes have been produced by our writers ) viz. that though the form of words be the same that is used to god , yet the sense is wholly that they would pray to god to bestow them . for , how should any other sense be understood , when these forms are allowed in invocation ? for , although the scripture may sometimes attribute the effect to the subordinate instrument , as when s. paul is said to save some , yet certainly the scripture is far from allowing such a liberty in solemn invocation : for upon this ground it might have been lawful for men to have fallen down upon their knees to st. paul , and have intreated him to save them . do you think , st. paul would have approved such phrases in invocation ? so that it is not the meer phrase , but as it is joyned with all rites of invocation , which makes it look so like the most gross idolatry . when you pray to the virgin mary , to protect you from your enemies , and receive you in the hour of death ; and to the apostles , to heal your spiritual maladies , which forms are acknowledged by bellarmin ; can any reasonable man think , that the meaning of them only is , that they would pray to god to do these things for them . if one should bring his petition to a courtier for his pardon , and in plain terms beg that of him which the king only can grant ; what man that had his wits about him , would ever imagine that he only meant by it , that he would entreat the king to do it for him . but god is more jealous of his honour , than to be put off by such mockeries as these are : nay , when your great men at the end of their most elaborate works conclude with a laus deo & beatissimae virgini , what can be meant by it , but the attributing an honour of the same kind to the one as the other ? and when prayers are made to saints , that through their merits they would do such things for them , it is hard conceiving the meaning should only be , that they would pray to god for them . nay , some have expresly said , that god hath communicated that which of right belonged to him because of his divinity and omnipotency , to the blessed virgin , & the saints ; and , that which is more wonderful to their images too . so gulielmus fabricius in his appropriation of lipsius his diva virgo hallensis , which it is thought by some that lipsius only writ in imitation of some heathen goddess ; which may be a very probable account of that otherwise very unhappy undertaking of that learned man. and as one said of the pen he offered to the virgin , nothing could be lighter , unless it were the book he wrote with it . but that professed critick understood well enough the exactness of the parallel of the worship of the virgin mary , with that of the heathen goddesses ; and therefore very suitably calls her tutelaris diva , by which his meaning might be guessed at , as plato's was , by his using the name of god , or gods. but however that be , we are sure the parallel is so great between the worship of saints in the church of rome , and that of heroes and daemons amongst the heathens , that if one be justified , the other cannot be condemned , and if one be condemned , the other cannot be justified . so that from hence it follows , that the arguments used by the primitive christians against that worship , will hold against invocation of saints ; because the heathens pleaded not for an absolute and soveraign worship of them , but only such a kind of relative and subordinate worship , as you profess to be due to saints . thus much may suffice to clear the notion of worship in the primitive church , and to shew , how far that was from approving your doctrine of the invocation of saints . the next argument i intended to have insisted on , should have been the proving the divinity of christ from the invocation of him , as athanasius and several others do ; which could signifie nothing , if invocation were then allowed to saints . but this hath been so amply managed by others , and the sense of the church having been sufficiently discovered by our precedent discourse ; i shall not need to insist any more on those foregoing times , but now come to that age of the church , wherein the honour of the martyrs seems to be advanced higher upon the ceasing of persecution . but still his lordship saith , that the church then admitted not of the invocation of saints , but only of the commemoration of the martyrs , as appears clearly in s. augustine , who saith , although they be at the sacrifice named in their order , non tamen à sacerdote qui sacrificat invocantur : they are not invoked by the priest who sacrifices . now to this you answer , the father's meaning is , that the saints departed are not invocated , or call'd upon by way of sacrifice , i. e. as persons to whom the sacrifice is offered ; which , you say , is a work of religion due to god only : and this you prove was all that s. austin meant , because in other places of his works , where he teaches , that not only commemoration is made of the saints departed in time of sacrifice , but that it is done to this particular intent and purpose , viz. that they would pray for us ; which doubtless amounts to a virtual invocation of them . and for this you produce several passages out of his works . two things therefore must be enquired into . . what the meaning of s. austin is , when he saith , that the saints are not invocated at the sacrifice . . what his meaning is , in those places wherein he allows of that you call virtual invocation , viz. that the saints would pray for us . . we are to enquire , what s. austin's meaning is , when he saith , that the saints are not invocated at the sacrifice ; meaning no other , ( say you ) but the sacrifice of the mass , which you hope the reader will mark for s. austin's sake ; wherein you betray most egregious ignorance or fraud , if you either suppose the christians called nothing else a sacrifice at that time , but what you now call the mass , or that they did it in the same respect that you do now . a sacrifice of prayer and praise indeed they had , and a commemoration of christs sacrifice in the lords supper , but no such thing as a propitiatory sacrifice for the living and the dead ; and i pray mark this for your own sake . but for our better understanding s. austin's meaning , we must consider that he is there comparing the honours which the heathens gave to their heroes , with those which the christians give to the martyrs . they , saith he , to those gods of theirs , build temples , erect altars , appoint priests , and offer sacrifices ; but we do not build any temples to the martyrs as to gods , but raise sepulchres as to dead men , whose spirits live with god ; neither do we build altars , at which we may sacrifice to the martyrs , but we offer up a sacrifice only to the god of the martyrs , and of us ; at which sacrifice , saith he , as holy men of god , who through their confession of him have overcome the world , they are named in their place and order , but are not invocated by the priest , who offers up the sacrifice . two things may here be understood by the sacrifice , either the anniversary sacrifice of praise to god , on the day of their natalitia or martyrdoms ; or else the celebration of the eucharist , which was wont to be done at the memoriae martyrum chiefly upon that anniversary day . now there are many reasons to incline me to think that s. austin doth not speak of any ordinary celebration of the eucharist , but of that anniversary solemnity , which was wont to be kept at the tombs of the martyrs on the day of their sufferings . chiefly because s. austin is here paralleling the honours of the martyrs , with those of the heathen heroes ; and therefore it was reason he should speak of the greatest solemnities which were used for them . now it is certain that there were such anniversary dayes then kept ( by many passages of those times , and somewhat before them ) especially in the african churches ; and at these they offered up solemn prayers and praises to god. both which are clear from this passage of s. cyprian , sacrificia pro iis semper ut meministis offerimus , quoties martyrum passiones & dies anniversariâ commemoratione celebramus : where we find an anniversary commemoration and sacrifices offered at them . what these sacrifices were , rigaltius in his observations on that place tells us ; christiani , saith he , sacris anniversariis , laudes deo dicunt , commemoratis eorum nominibus qui pro fide christo dicta martyrium fortiter obierunt . so that the sacrifice was a sacrifice of praise to god in behalf of the martyrs . at which they had their orationum sacrificia too , as tertullian calls them , who saith , vnder the gospel the pure sacrifice is prayer to god ; and that the sinner being cleansed , ought to offer to god , munus apud templum , orationem sci . & gratiarum actionem apud ecclesiam per jesum christum catholicum patris sacerdotem , a sacrifice in his temple , viz. prayer and praise in his church through jesus christ the catholick high priest of his father . hence s. cyprian , quando in sacrificiis precem cum pluribus facimus , which rigaltius explains by the publick prayers , which the priest made for the people , and understands it wholly of the sacrifices of prayers . so that these solemn thanksgivings to god in behalf of the martyrs , and the prayers which were made for others , are those sacrifices which did belong to these anniversary solemnities , oblationes pro defunctis , pro natalitiis annuâ die facimus . those oblationes pro natalitiis , were nothing else but these solemn eucharistical sacrifices in behalf of the martyrs sufferings , which were called their natalitia . now to apply this to s. austin : among the honours belonging to the martyrs , he mentions the sacrifice which was offered to god in commemoration of them , and , what can this be other than on that anniversary solemnity which tertullian and cyprian mention , that was duly kept on that account . now at this sacrifice , saith he , they are named in their order , but not invocated . which being understood of the anniversary day , and of the sacrifices of prayers and praises , nothing can be more express against invocation of saints , than this place is . for , if ever they were solemnly invocated , it certainly would be on the day of the great solemnity for them ; and if then all prayers and praises were looked on as due only to god , as sacrifices belonging to him , then it cannot but be a robbing god of his honour , to offer up either prayers or praises to any but himself . but , because it was the custom at those solemnities , to have the eucharist administred , and that s. austin afterwards mentions this , i shall not exclude the eucharist here , yet that sacrifice may still comprehend all the supplications which were then used ; and if the saints were not invocated then , we have reason to conclude they were not at all . for the commemoration of the martyrs was made after the ite , missa est , and the catechumens were departed ; so that there was no such occasion for their invocation at any other time , as then . so that if there were no invocation of them at the sacrifice , much less was there out of it ; since all the solemnities concerning the martyrs were used in the time of celebration . thus we see , this place of s. austin is full and clear against invocation of saints , and we must now enquire into what he saith elsewhere . only we take notice here , that s. austin not only appropriates sacrifices as a thing peculiar to god , but temples and altars too . and that sacrifice which was then appropriated to god , was not a propitiatory sacrifice , but eucharistical and supplicatory ; and by consequence , if sacrifice only belongs to god , then all thanksgiving and invocation doth too . for both those , we see , were comprehended by the african fathers under the notion of sacrifice . we proceed now to enquire , what s. austin saith elsewhere ; whether he doth any where else allow invocation as due to saints ? for which we must consider , that st. austin every where appropriates all acts of religion only to god ; for he expresly saith , that we must only ask of god that good which we hope to do , that god alone must be served by the soul , because he alone is the creatour of it : and that every glorified rational creature , is only to be loved and imitated ; that we ought not to apply our religion to yield service to the dead ; that they must be honoured for imitation , not worshipped for religion . that religion is nothing else but the worship of god , and therefore we ought not to consecrate our selves to any thing else , by any religious rites . that those who have gone to angels , instead of god , have fallen into many illusions , and deceitful fancies . now is it conceivable , that a person constant to himself , should so often , and on such good grounds assert , that all acts of religion belong only to god , and yet withall ascribe religious invocation as due either to saints or angels ? but we must further consider , that the ground of s. austin's distinguishing between 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , was not to assert different degrees of religious worship , but to make different kinds of worship of those two ; the one being properly religious worship , the other only cultus dilectionis & societatis , as he calls it , a worship only of love and respect . so that we quarrel not with the distinction it self , but with your misapplying it . for st. austin plainly makes the honour given to saints departed , to be of the same nature with that which is given them , while they live : all the difference is , saith he , we may render that honour to them with the more confidence , after they have over come . but still adds , that all religious worship is proper only to god. the only difficulty then is , what is to be understood by those other passages you produce out of him . and this we have gained already , that they cannot be understood of any religious worship , without an apparent contradiction . your first citation is , that the commemoration of martyrs at the holy table , is not that we should pray for them , but rather that they should pray for us . to the same purpose the second is , that it is an injury to pray for a martyr , to whose prayers we our selves ought to be recommended . the only things which can be drawn from hence are , that the martyrs do pray for the church on earth , and that we ought to recommend our selves to their prayers : but what is this to an invocation of them , when it doth not so much as imply a direct desire of them to pray for us ? when this recommending our selves to the prayers of the martyrs , is probably understood of nothing else , but a desire that god would hear the prayers which the saints in heaven do make on our behalf , without any address to the martyrs themselves , that they would pray for us . which seems very unreasonable , without good assurance that they did hear or understand those requests of that nature which are made to them . it is not therefore the saying that the saints do pray for us , which makes it either lawful or profitable for us to pray to them . for since they ascribe that honour as alone due to god , so ought we to do too ; and i can hardly see how the very praying to saints to pray for us , being performed with all the rites of solemn and religious invocation , can be excused from attributing that honour to the creature which is due only to the creatour . and therefore i cannot but wonder at those who would make this only of the same nature , with our desiring fellow-christians to pray for us . for is there no difference between a mans intreating a courtier to present his petition to the king , and his falling down on his knees to him with all the ceremony due to the king himself ; and then put it off , with saying , that in all that , he only desired him to sue to his majesty in his behalf ? although therefore we condemn not the solemn praying to god , not only to hear the prayers of the church militant , but of that part of it which is triumphant in behalf of the other in general ; yet this falls far short of solemn addresses in places of divine worship , and in sacred offices to the saints , that they would pray for us . this is it , which as to that you call virtual invocation , you should have proved out of st. austin ; and yet even that falls much short of that direct and formal invocation which is both used and allowed in the church of rome . but you offer at a further proof of a direct ora pro nobis in st. austin . for ( say you ) st. austin doth profess it to be the general custom of christians in their recommending themselves to the saints , to say , memor esto nostrî ; which surely no man will contend to signifie less than ora pro nobis . i grant , it signifies as much where st. austin uses it ; but if you had consulted the place you might easily have seen how wholly impertinent it is to your purpose . for st. austin speaks not at all there of saints departed , but of them living ; and that it was a common thing among christians to say to any one of them memor esto meî , remember me in your prayers ; which appears by the whole scope of that chapter , where he speaks of giving alms , and the effect of them on those who received them in making them mindful of them . it cannot be denyed , but some of them did use such expressions to those who were near their martyrdom ; but still this only shews the requesting it of them , when they were sure they heard them ; but it proves not any solemn invocations of them when they were dead . but if we should grant , that there are expressions intimating a desire that saints in heaven should pray for them , which is the utmost you can make of the citation out of the sermon on st. stephen ( which with the rest de sanctis is vehemently suspected , and the other on job is counterfeit ) yet there is a great deal of difference to be put between such a calling upon martyrs ( of whom only st. austin speaks ) out of a desire of their prayers ; and a solemn and direct praying to them in the most sacred offices and publick devotions : which is used and approved in your church . for whatever there might be of private devotion ( not to call it superstition ) this way in st. austins time , in desiring the prayers of departed saints whom they could have no ground at all to believe they heard them ; yet you can bring no evidence of any use of this in the publick offices of the church , much less of that direct invocation , which we most of all charge your church with . that then which began in meer hypothetical addresses , went somewhat further , when they began to grow more confident that in some extraordinary way or other the saints heard them ; but still this kept it self within the bounds of the cultus dilectionis & societatis , that respect which arose from love and communion ; but it was a good while after before it obtained a place in the publick offices , and yet longer , before it came to that height of religious invocation , which is more practised then pleaded for in the church of rome . for although great endeavours be used to smooth over these gross abuses with fair distinctions , of relative and absolute , direct and indirect worship ; yet the general practise is uncapable of being palliated by these narrow coverings , there being the most formal and direct invocations used to saints for spiritual and temporal blessings . which being allowed of in common practise and the most sacred offices , can never be excused from as great idolatry as the heathens were guilty of , in the worship of their inferiour deities . i conclude this therefore with that of spalatensis , religious invocation of saints is heathenism ; and meer civil invocation of them , though not so bad is yet dangerous . and therefore wicelius justly saith , that the invocation of saints , is to be cast out of the church , because it ascribes gods honour and attributes to his creatures , and derogates from the office and glory of christ by making saints , mediatours and intercessours . which is that we now come to consider . for , as his lordship saith , when the church prayed to god for any thing , she desired to be heard for the mercies and the merits of christ , not for the merits of any saints whatsoever . for i much doubt , this were to make the saints more then mediatours of intercession , which is all that you will acknowledge you allow to the saints . for i pray , is not by the merits more then by the intercession ? did not christ redeem us by his merits ? and if god must hear our prayers for the merits of the saints , how much fall they short of sharers in the mediation of redemption ? such prayers as these the church of rome makes at this day , and they stand ( not without great scandal to christ and christianity ) used and authorized to be used in the missal . to this you answer in two things . . that such prayers as these , are used in scripture . . that they are no derogation to the merits of christ. for the first , you say , solomon , psal. . pray's to god to hear him , in effect for the merits of his father david deceased , when he saith , memento , domine , david & omnis mansuetudinis ejus , lord remember david and all his meekness , &c. this ( you say ) cannot be understood of gods covenant and promise made to david ( as protestants vainly pretend ) but of davids piety and vertue by which he was acceptable to god. for which reason he adds again , for thy servant davids sake turn not away the face of thine anointed . the like was done by daniel , moses , hieremias and other prophets praying unto god , and desiring their petitions might be heard for abraham , for isaac , for israels sake , and for the sakes of other holy men , who had lived before , and been in their times persons acceptable to god. and for this you quote st. austin and chrysostome . so far you have very fairly rendred bellarmin exactly in english. but we are yet to seek , why all those expressions in scripture are not to be understood of the covenant and promise god made with those persons who are mentioned by you . for it is considerable , that you instance in none but such whom god had made an express covenant with , as with the patriarchs , and with david . but since you say , that this answer hath not the least ground from the text , therein you out-do bellarmin , and speak that which the text evidently contradicts you in . for psal. . . next after those very words , for thy servant david 's sake ; it follows , the lord hath sworn in truth unto david ; and , in the following verse , the covenant god made with david is mentioned . if thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that i shall teach them , their children also shall sit upon thy throne for evermore . you had then much consulted the text when you say , this exposition had not the least ground from it ; for that speaks expresly of the promise and covenant which god made with david . and what you add to the text , of davids piety and vertue , we may more justly say , hath not the least ground from it . for the word doth not signifie meekness but affliction , and therefore aquila renders it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , symmachus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and some old copies 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , all referring not to davids merits , but to his sufferings . and it is not improbably conceived by some , that this psalm is not of solomons penning , but of davids ; and that at the time when the ark was to be brought back from the house of obed edom to hierusalem . and in all those other places of scripture mention'd , referring to abraham , isaac , and jacob ; the scripture is very plain , that they are to be understood of the covenant god made with them : as appears by the very words of moses , remember abraham , isaac , and israel thy servants , to whom thou swarest by thine own self , &c. and god himself speaks often of his remembring his covenant which he made with abraham , isaac , and jacob ; and that is the ground why the prophets afterwards plead the remembrance of those persons , because the covenant made with them was the foundation of all those blessings which the children of israel expected afterwards . the utmost that can be made of st. augustins testimony is , that god may sometimes shew favour to a people that hath deserved ill at his hands for the sake of such as pray for them ; as he did to the people of israel for the sake of moses . and all that st. chrysostom saith , is , that god may shew mercy to wicked men for the sake of their righteous ancestours who are dead . but this is no more then he hath promised , that he will shew mercy to them that love him to the third and fourth generation . but there is a great deal of difference to be made between the expressions of gods bounty and the foundation of our prayers ; which ought to be only a promise of god. and in this case we deny it not to be lawful , to pray that god would remember his promise : but that is a quite different thing from praying that we may receive blessings through the merits of the saints in heaven . so that it cannot be hence concluded , that 't is no unwarrantable thing to pray that god would hear us for the merits of the saints . but this will be further explained now we come to see , how you vindicate this from being any derogation to the merits of christ. we believe , say you , and confess that christ alone is our redeemer ; and that he , and none but he , by the just price of his most precious blood , hath paid our ransome , and fully satisfied the justice of god for our sins : all that we desire of the saints , either when we mention their merits to god , or simply beg their intercession with god for us , is only , that they would joyn with us in prayer to god , and that god would be pleased for their sakes , whose works were so grateful to him , to bestow on us the favours we ask . when things are so odious in the practise of them , that they cause all persons of any ingenuity among your selves to cry out upon them , then your arts are , to let the same practises continue still , but to find out some plausible pretext to colour them over with . as it is here in the business of praying to saints , and making them thereby to be mediatours between god and us ; which implying so great dishonour to the all-sufficiency of the merits and intercession of christ , you are fain to find out the fairest excuses you can make for it , although the practises still continue which overthrow all the distinctions you use . thus it is plain , that direct and formal prayers in your church are made to saints ; but , you say , these are only to intreat them to pray for us : you pray expresly ( as his lordship tells you ) that god by the merits and prayers of saints would deliver you from the fire of hell ; that you may obtain the glory of eternity by their merits ; and that god would absolve you from your sins by their interceding merits : and yet for all this , you would have us believe , that you offer no derogation at all to the merits and intercession of christ. but is it not the great honour of christ that his merits and intercession alone are all-sufficient to procure all spiritual blessings for us ? and can any spiritual blessings be greater than deliverance from hell , eternal glory , and the forgiveness of sins ? and when you pray for all these through the merits of the saints , how can you possibly more disparage the all-sufficiency of the merits of christ ? for , if those be sufficient what need any more ? will god grant that for the merits of the saints , which he would not do for the intercession of christ ? or , do we want the merits of the saints to apply the merits of christ ? but still something of weakness and defect must be implyed in them , if some further additional merits be wanting for the application of the former . if a prince should declare to some of his fathers subjects , that he would satisfie his fathers displeasure , and intercede for them that they should have an absolute pardon ; would it not argue a distrust of the princes interest to sollicite some inferiour attendants to intreat the king to pardon them for their sakes ? and it is here a plain case , whatever you pretend , that you do not only pray that the saints would joyn in prayer to god with you , but you run to them for help and assistance , in order to the obtaining the greatest spiritual blessings from god. for so the council of trent expresly defines , that it is not only good and profitable to invocate the saints , but ob beneficia impetranda à deo per christum ad eorum orationes , opem auxiliumque confugere ; for the obtaining of blessings from god through christ , we ought to fly to their prayers , help and assistance . if nothing else were meant , but only that the saints should pray for us , what means help and assistance mentioned as distinct from their prayers ? and the roman catechism more fully delivers it ( which was published by order of the council of trent ) viz. that saints are not only to be invocated , because of their prayers to god , but because god bestows many blessings on us , eorum merito & gratiâ , by their merits and favour ; and after adds , roga●i & peccatorum veniam impetrabunt , & conciliabunt nobis dei gratiam ; being asked , they will obtain the pardon of sin , and procure for us the savour of god. and , what can be more said concerning christ himself ? although therefore you say never so much , that your prayers are made to the saints through the merits of christ , and that you conclude all your prayers , per christum dominum nostrum ; yet all this cannot clear you from offering the greatest dishonour to the merits and intercession of christ , since it is plain you rely on the saints merits , in order to the obtaining the blessings you pray for . but , say you , if the saints being rewarded in heaven for their merits , be not injurious to the fulness of christ● merits , why should their being heard by virtue of those merits , when they pray to god for us through christ , or our desire that they may be heard for them , be thought injurious to christs merits ? to which i answer , those merits which you suppose in saints , when they are rewarded in heaven , have either an equal proportion with the reward they receive , or not ? if not , then they cease to be merits , and the giving the reward , ( though an act of justice , the promise supposed ) yet in it self is wholly an act of grace and favour ; if they have , then the full recompence is received by that reward , and nothing further can be obtained for others on their account . but in the sense it is to be suspected you take merits in , we as well assert , that the proportioning the reward in heaven to the merits of saints , is injurious to the fulness of christs merits , as their obtaining mercies for others by reason of them . only this latter adds to the dishonour , in that there is not only supposed a proportion between heaven and them ; but , as though that were not enough , a further efficacy is attributed to them , for obtaining mercies for others too . his lordship therefore does not go about to pervert the sense of the prayers used in your missal ; but the plain words and sense of them evidently shew , how contrary they are to christian doctrine and piety . bellarmin's saying , that the saints may in some sense be called our redeemers , cannot be vindicated by that saying of s. paul , that he became all things to all men , that he might save some ; because salvation respects the effect of christs death , the promotion of which may in some sense be attributed to the instruments of it , such as s. paul was here on earth ; but redemption respects the merits by which that effect was obtained , and so belongs wholly to christ , and cannot be attributed to any saints , either in earth or heaven . when you can prove that any subordinate instruments of gods power are called numina , you may then excuse bellarmin for calling the saints so ; but that is so incongruous a sense of the word , that it needs no confutation . we are now come to the last errour , which his lordship here charges your pretended general councils with , which is , concerning adoration of images . of which , his lordship sayes , that the ancient church knew it not . and the modern church of rome is too like to paganism , in the practice of it ; and driven to scarce intelligible subtilties in her servants writings that defend it . and this , without any care had of millions of souls , unable to understand her subtilties , or shun her practice . here you say , the bishop is very bitter ; but no more than the nature of the thing required . all the answer you return to this , lyes in these things . . that the church of rome teaches nothing concerning the worship of images , but what the second council of nice did nine hundred years ago ; which is , that they must be had in veneration , and due reverence , but not have divine worship given to them . . that images were in common vse and veneration too , amongst christians in the ancient church . . that what abuses are crept in , are not to be imputed to the church , but to particular persons . this is the substance of what you say to the end of the chapter ; as to which a brief answer will suffice , because i design not a full handling the question of the worship of images . if that which you say in the first place , be true , it doth the more prove that which his lordship intends , viz. that not one barely , but two of those you own to be general councils , have erred in this particular . if either those councils , or you , had intended to have dealt fairly and honestly with the world , they and you should have declared , what that veneration and reverence is , which is due to images ; what difference you put between that , and the worship due to god ; and , whether the same pretences and excuses would not as well have justified the pagan idolatries ? for this was it which his lordship charged you with , that you came too near paganism in your practice . but as to this you answer nothing , but that if you do , so did the council of nice too : but , is that a sufficient excuse for you ? it is well enough known , what kind of council that was ; how much it was opposed by the synod of frankford ; how many persons both in the eastern and western churches , declared themselves against the doctrine of it ? but , what a pitiful plea is it for you to say , that the council of trent had silenced all calumnies , by saying , that you attribute no divinity to the images , but only worship them with such honour and reverence as is due to them ? would not any considerate heathens have said as much as this is ? but , the question is , whether that veneration of them which is used by you towards images , be due to them , or no ? this you should have undertaken , and set the distinct limits between the worship due to god , and that which is given to these . you should have proved , that this is no prohibited way of worship ; for , if it be , it can in no sense be due to them . for , since god may determine the modes of his own worship , what he hath forbidden in his service , becomes unlawful ; and , so long as that command continues in force , all acts of worship contrary to it , are a positive kind of idolatry . for , as there is a kind of natural idolatry lying in the worship of false gods instead of the true ; so there is that which may be called positive idolatry , which is a worshipping god in a way or manner which he hath forbidden . from whence the israelites in the golden calf , and the ten tribes in the worship of the calves at dan and bethel , are charged with idolatry , although they acknowledged the true god , and designed that for a relative worship to him . if it were so then , you should have shewed us , how it comes to be otherwise now ? where it was , god repealed the second commandment ? or , what there was in it typical and ceremonial , that it must cease to oblige at christ's coming ? or , what reasons it was built on , which were only proper to the jews , and cannot extend to the christians too ? and , why relative worship , and the helps for memory and devotion would not as well have justified the use and worship of images , before christ as after ? and why the same reasons from the danger of idolatry , low conceptions of god ( and what other reasons you will give of that prohibition then ) may not hold as well still ? these , and many other things , if you would have vindicated the practice of your church you ought to have insisted on . but since you omit them wholly , and think to put us off with repeating the decree of the council of trent , you only shew the weakness of your cause , and of those unintelligible subtilties which are used to defend it . to what his lordship saith , that , in optatus his time , the christians were much troubled upon but a false report , that an image was to be placed upon the altar ; what would they have done , if adoration had been commanded ? you answer , that it was either some idol , or common image of a man , or of the emperour , or the governour of the province , or something or other , but you cannot tell what . but if it had been any of all these , how easie had it been for them to have vindicated themselves by saying , that if it had been the image of christ , or some saints , they would then have worshipped it , but they could not otherwise . but we see , it was not because it was such or such an image , that the displeasure was taken , but that it was any at all ; and this was then justly looked on as a strange thing , being so contrary to the practice of the christian church , from christ's time till that . this you deny , and say , that the images of christ and the saints were in common use and veneration too , amongst christians in the ancient church . how is it possible to deal with you , that dare with so much confidence obtrude such notorious falsities upon the world ? there being scarce any thing imaginable , in which there are more express testimonies for so many ages together then against the use or veneration of images in the ancient church . with what scorn and contempt do the primitive christians reject the use of images , and that not in regard of an absolute , but a relative worship ? if you had read the discourses of the christians in the primitive times , such as clemens alexandrinus , origen against celsus , tertullian , minutius felix , arnobius , lactantius , athanasius , eusebius , s. augustin where they dispute against the heathens , not meerly for worshipping idols , but for any worship of images , though meerly as they are signs or symbols of the proper objects of worship , you could not possibly have uttered so gross a falshood as that foregoing , unless you were resolved to offer violence to your conscience in it . if you think the council of trent brings off all this by saying , men must not believe there is any divinity in images , and that it was the worship which arose from such an apprehension which the father 's disputed against ; i assure you , you are greatly deceived . for there is no such difference between the heathens apprehensions , and yours , as to the worship of images , as you imagine . who is such a fool , saith celsus , to think that these are gods , and not the bare images of them . you are greatly mistaken ( saith the heathen in arnobius ) if you think that we worship the images for gods ; no , we worship the gods by and through them : and therefore saith , that the ancients were not ignorant that the images had neither sense nor divinity in them , but only that the rude and ignorant people wanted such things to put them in mind of the gods . what is there more than this , that you have to plead for the vse of them ? non ipsa timemus simulachra ( say the heathens in lactantius ) sed eos ad quorum imaginem ficta , & quorum nominibus consecrata sunt ; we worship not the images , but them to whom they are consecrated ; which in your language is , they give them not an absolute , but a relative worship . nec simulachrum nec daemonium colo , sed per effigi●m corporalem ejus rei signum intu●or , quam colere debeo , saith the heathen in s. augustin ; i neither worship the image , nor the daemon in it , but only by that visible representation , i am put in mind of that which i ought to worship . if you say , this was not the common sense of them , but only some more subtle men asserted this , because they could not defend their gross idolatries otherwise ; the very same is most true of your selves ; your distinctions are such which the people are not capable of in the worship they give ; and they only serve to answer those , who dislike so palpable an imitation of heathenism , as is in the worship of images . and it will be hard to find that any heathens had any higher thoughts of their images , or used greater acts of worship towards them , than the people of your church do . for , are not miraculous operations among you ascribed to images of saints ? and what greater testimony of divinity can be supposed in them ? do not they fall down in the most devout manner to them , and make the most formal addresses before them ? and that not meerly with a respect to what is represented , but with a worship belonging to the images themselves ? and ▪ what more than this did ever the heathens do ? so that those fathers who so much condemned that use and veneration of images which was among the heathens , must needs be understood to condemn as much that in your church too . and thence eusebius ascribes the setting up the statue at paneas to a heathen custom , thence epiphanius rent the vail at anablatha , wherein the image of christ , or some saint , was drawn : thence the council of elvira in spain , forbids the placing of pictures in churches , lest that which is worshipped or adored , should be painted on walls ; thence s. augustin condemns the worshippers of pictures ; thence the very art of painting was condemned in the ancient church , as appears by clemens alexandrinus , and tertullian ; and after all this , is it possible to believe what you say , viz. that images were in common use and veneration too in the ancient church ? but surely we shall have some evident proof for so bold an assertion : it were well if there were any thing looked like it . for all that you produce , is only that in tertullian 's time , the christians were abused with the nick-name of crucis religiosi ; and that in chrysostom 's time , the cross made a glorious shew upon the altar . and , are not these invincible proofs for the veneration of images in the ancient church ? but , why do you not as well say . the christians worshipped an asses head , the sun , and ononychites ; for all these are in the same chapter , and equally reckon'd among the false accusations of the christians . but it seems you had rather believe the heathens objection ▪ than the christians denial , whose answer we find express to the contrary in minutius felix , cruces nec colimus , nec optamus , we neither wish for , nor worship crosses ; and tertullian , in answer to the former cavil , saith , quod colimus nos , deus unus est ; that which we worship , is only god. they were then strangers to any such distinctions of worship as you have invented to answer such places with , viz. that they did not worship them absolutely , but relatively . and for all that i can perceive , by the same distinctions you may prove that the christians did worship daemons and heroes ; for , although they deny it never so much , i may as well say , they meant only by it , that they did not worship them with the worship proper only to god , but with an inferiour and relative worship , as you say as much concerning images ; by which art you may evade all denyals whatsoever . for your place of s. chrysostom , the most that bellarmin makes of it is , that in his time the cross was wont to be painted in all places , in cities , houses , chambers , vessels , not a word in him of altars , which he would not have left out , had he found any such thing in him , but you intended to take care we should not search too farr , by not referring us to the edition of s. chrysostom , which you , or your authour made use of . but , what is all this to the veneration of the cross , if we grant that it did make a glorious shew on the altar ? could it not make a glorious shew , unless they all fell down and worshipped it ? and , can you think now , that these testimonies are sufficient against the whole strain of antiquity , to perswade men that the veneration of images was used in the ancient church ? but you are men who can believe what you have a mind to ; any word , clause , or impertinent allegation , which doth but seem afar off , to cast an eye towards you , is presently the consent of all antiquity , when the most pregnant testimonies of the best writers of the church against you , are pish'd at , and scorned , or else eluded with most frivolous interpretations , or lastly suspected without any shadow of reason . as the epistle of epiphanius , and the canon of the eliberine council have been in this present controversie . when you shall produce your other testimonies , an answer shall attend them ; but you must not think the story of the statue at paneas , which eusebius attributes to a heathenish custom ( besides the many improbabilities in it ) will ever perswade us , that the christians did then worship images . but it would now take up too much time to examine that particularly , with others of a like nature . what i have said already , being sufficient to give an account of the sense of the primitive church , as to this subject , which is our present business . we pass by the resemblance between the feasts at the oratories of martyrs , and the heathen parentalia , because you say now it seems wholly extirpated . and i would not charge you with more faults than you are guilty of , since you have enough without it . an evidence of which , is your discarding all persons from your communion , who are not such bigots , as to approve all the abuses and corruptions among you : which sufficiently appears by your censure of cassander ; who ( you say ) seemed to many to halt between god and baal ; and , although he was not actually excommunicate , yet you would have us believe he was meritoriously so , because he favoured heresie so much . by which we see , that we must not judge all of the roman communion , who profess themselves to be of it ; for so cassander did to his death . but , whoever offer to find the least fault with the practices or doctrine of your church , let them pretend never so much to be of it , yet they may be excommunicate , sententiâ juris ; and so not only cassander , but erasmus , fspencaeus , ferus , barns , picherellus , and all other persons of reason and ingenuity among you , ought not to be looked on as persons of your communion , whatever their pretences be . it seems your church bears none but hectors , and in a short time none shall be accounted papists , but jesuits : but it is hard to determine , whether this discovers more the corruption , or tyranny of your church ; which loves her degeneracy so much , that she proscribes all who dare in the least to tell her of her faults . but , how can she be found fault with , that takes such excellent care to prevent all abuses , as appears by the caution of the council of trent , in the present case of your worship of images ? for , say you , as to any matter of abuse in this kind , crept in amongst the ignorant , we have already shewn , how careful the council of trent was to prevent and provide against all inconveniencies that could reasonably be foreseen or feared . so it seems , by the admirable caution used by the council , to prevent giving undue worship to images , by telling men , they must only give that which was due ; when all the question was , what was due ? and , what not ? so it seems , by the care used to instruct the people concerning the nature of divine worship , and the danger of idolatry . so it seems , by the leaving out the second commandment in the offices of frequent use , lest the peoples consciences should check them , for doing that which god had severely prohibited . so it seems , by the unintelligible subtilties concerning the kind of that worship which is to be given to the image ; when yet a mistake there , makes the person who gives it , guilty of idolatry . so it seems , by the continuance of the most gross abuses in this nature still in your church , in this matter of images . of which such things are related by eye-witnesses , that the most gross heathen idolatries were not more unreasonable , absurd , and ridiculous , than they are . and if people continue ignorant , and sottish enough , all is well ; but if with cassander , they charge you with any corruptions , then they stand meritoriously excommunicate : and it is well if they escape so ; for , although cassander did , father barns did not . but , plead as long as you will for the care your church hath taken to prevent all abuses in the worship of images ; as long as the worship of images continues , it is impossible to prevent the abuses in it ; since that is a great abuse it self , and gives occasion to all others . for , the vindication of your doctrine depends on such metàphysical niceties , which the minds of people are uncapable of ; and , however they may serve you in disputation , are impossible to be reconciled with the practice of your church , and the apprehensions of those who yield the worship you allow to images . and therefore it is no wonder at all what llamas relates of the spanish people , that they were so besotted on their old worm-eaten images , that when they were to have new ones in their rooms , they begg'd with tears to have their old ones still . but , although you grant these people guilty of indiscretion , yet by no means of idolatry , because they did not call them their gods . if you think none were idolaters , but such as did believe their images to be gods ; i doubt you may find the number of atheists as great as that of idolaters in the world . but if we may guess at peoples apprehensions by their actions , these seemed as much to believe them to be gods , as any heathens you can instance in . your vindication of llamas from saying , that the images of christ , and the saints , as they represent their exemplars , have deity or divinity in them ; as it is undertaken somewhat fearfully , because ( you say ) you hope to clear his meaning , whatever his words seem to import ; so at last it stands on the sandy foundation of relative and absolute worship , which being taken away , that and your images fall together . i conclude this subject with his lordships wish ; that men of learning would not strain their wits to spoil the truth , and rent the peace of the church of christ , by such dangerous , such superstitious vanities . for better they are not , but they may be worse : and i fear are so . chap. iv. of the possibility of salvation in the roman church . protestants concessions ought not to be any ground to preferr the communion of the church of rome . how far those concessions extend . the uncharitableness of romanists , if they yield not the same to us . the weakness of the arguments to prove the roman church the safer way to salvation on protestant principles . the dangerous doctrines of romanists about the easiness of salvation , by the sacrament of pennance . the case parall'eld be-between the donatists and romanists , in denying salvation to all but themselves ; and the advantages equal from their adversaries concessions . the advantage of the protestants , if that be the safest way which both parties are agreed in , manifested and vindicated in several particulars . the principle it self at large shewed to be a meer contingent proposition , and such as may lead to heresie and infidelity . the case of the leaders in the roman church , and others , distinguished . the errours and superstitions of the roman church , make its communion very dangerous in order to salvation . the main thing which now remains to be discussed , is , whether the communion of your church , or ours , be rather to be chosen , in order to salvation . for that being the great end of our faith , the tendency to the promotion of that , ought to be the rule , by which we should embrace or continue in the society of any church . and , since the regard men ought to have of their eternal welfare , doth oblige them to make choice of the best means in order to it , the bare remote possibility of salvation in any church , ought to have no force or consideration at all in the determining their choice in a matter of so great importance . as , supposing a pilot at sea , whose only desire is to bring his ship safe into his desired port , should be told , that there are two passages homewards ; the one free and open , in which there is no danger ; the other amidst many rocks and shelves in which yet there is a possibility of escaping : would not he be accounted a very weak man , that should chuse this latter way , meerly because it is possible he may escape ; and neglect the other , in which there is no danger of miscarrying ? so it is here in our present case , the protestants confess there is a possibility for some to escape in the communion of the roman church ; but it is as men may escape with their lives in a shipwrack ; but they undertake to make it evident , there can be no danger , if they observe the principles of protestant religion ; vvould it not be madness in any then to neglect this , and make choice of the other , meerly because protestants agree with you , that there is a possibility of salvation for some in the roman church ? yet this is the great argument you make use of , whereby to proselyte such persons , who want judgement enough to discern the weakness and sophistry of it . that therefore we are now to enquire into , is , whether your communion , or ours , be more eligible upon principles of reason and prudence , in order to salvation ? and two things are insisted on in behalf of your church ; first , that protestants grant the possibility of salvation in your church , but you deny it in ours , and therefore yours is the safer way . secondly , that the faith of protestants doth not stand upon those sure grounds which your faith doth . as to the first , there are two things to be considered . . how far we grant a possibility of salvation to those in your church . . what can be infer'd from that concession in the choice of religion . the occasion of entering upon this debate was the lady's query , whether she might be saved in the roman faith ; to which his lordship answers in general , that the ignorant that could not discern the errours of that church , so they held the foundation and conformed themselves to a religious life , might be saved ; and more particularly to the lady , that it must needs go harder with her even in point of salvation , because she had been brought to understand very much for one of her condition , in these controverted causes of religion . and a person that comes to know much had need carefully bethink himself , that he oppose not known truth against the church that made him a christian ; for salvation may be in the church of rome , and they not find it that make surest of it . and after , he explains himself more fully , that [ might be saved ] grants but a possibility , no sure or safe way to salvation ; the possibility , i think saith he , cannot be denyed to the ignorants , especially because they hold the foundation and cannot survey the building . and the foundation can deceive no man that rests upon it . but a secure way they cannot go , that hold with such corruptions when they know them . now , whether it be wisdom , in such a point as salvation is , to forsake a church in the which the ground of salvation is firm , to follow a church in which it is but possible one may be saved , but very probable he may do worse , if he look not well to the foundation ; judge ye . so that still his lordship asserts the protestants way to be the only safe way to salvation ; and that in the church of rome there is only a limited possibility of it , which is such , that he say's , a. c. or his fellows can take little comfort in . for as he after declares himself , many protestants indeed confess , there is salvation possible to be attained in the roman church ; but yet they say withall , that the errours of that church are so many , ( and some so great , as weaken the foundation ) that it is very hard to go that way to heaven , especially to them that have had the truth manifested ; and a little after , but we have not so learned christ , as either to return evil for evil in this heady course , or to deny salvation to some ignorant silly souls , whose humble peaceable obedience makes them safe among any part of men that profess the foundation christ. and in another place , i do indeed for my part ( leaving other men free to their own judgement ) acknowledge a possibility of salvation in the roman church . but so , as that which i grant to romanists , is not as they are romanists , but as they are christians , that is , as they believe the creed and hold the foundation christ himself , not as they associate themselves wittingly and knowingly to the gross superstitions of the roman church . and i am willing to hope there are many among them , which keep within that church , and yet wish the superstitions abolished which they know , and which pray to god to forgive their errours in what they know not , and which hold the foundation firm , and live accordingly , and which would have all things amended that are amiss , were it in their power . and to such i dare not deny a possibility of salvation , for that which is christs in them , though they hazzard themselves extreamly by keeping so close to that which is superstition , and in the case of images comes too near idolatry . the substance then of what his lordship saith , is , that the protestant way is a safe and secure way to salvation ; that in the roman church there is extream hazzard made of it , which all who love their souls ought to avoid ; but yet for such , who by reason of ignorance see not the danger , and by reason of honesty keep close to christ the foundation , and repent of all miscarriages known or unknown , he dares not deny a possibility of salvation for them . but he is far from asserting it of those , who either know the corruptions of that church and yet continue in them , or such who wilfully neglect the means whereby they may be convinced of them . so that you strangely either mistake or pervert his lordships meaning when you would inferr from these passages , that he asserts a possibility of being saved to those who joyn with the roman church , though their ignorance be not invincible , and though all or the chief motives which the protestants bring against you be never so sufficiently proposed to them . for he still speaks either of such , whose meer ignorance doth excuse them where the fundamentals are held and a life lead according to them , or else of such who condemn your superstitions as far as they are discovered to them , and sincerely desire to find impartially the way that leads to heaven ; of such as these he dares not deny a possibility of salvation . and you are the most uncharitable persons in the world , if you dare assert the contrary of protestants . you expresly grant a possibility of salvation to those who joyn with the protestant church , in case of invincible ignorance ; and dare you deny it where there is a preparation of mind to find out and embrace the most certain way to heaven , where all endeavours are used to that end , and where there is a conscientious obedience to the will of god , so far as it is discovered ? if you dare peremptorily deny a possibility of salvation to such persons , meerly because not of the roman church , this prodigious uncharitableness would make us question the possibility of your salvation more , while you persist in it . for , what is there more contrary to the design and spirit of the gospel then this is ? from whence must we gather the terms of salvation , but only from thence ? but it seems by you , although men give never so hearty an assent to the doctrine of the gospel , and live in the most universal obedience to it , and abound in the fruits of the spirit of god , of which charity is none of the least ; yet if they be not in the communion of your church , there is no hopes of salvation for them . but , who is it the mean while that hath the disposal of this salvation ? is it in your hands or christs ? if it be in his , we dare rely on his promise , although you pretend to know his mind better than he did himself . for , notwithstanding a sincere endeavour to know and obey the will of god , be the great fundamental in order to salvation , which is delivered us by the doctrine of christ ; yet it seems by you , there may be this , where there may be not so much as possibility of salvation . by which assertion of yours , you are so far from working upon any , but very weak persons , to bring them over to your church , that nothing can more effectually prejudice it among all such who dare believe christ to be more infallible then the church of rome . for what is this else , but to make heaven and eternal salvation stalk to the interess of your church , and to lay more weight upon being in your communion then upon the most indispensable precepts of christianity ? but when we consider how many among you dispute for the possibility of the salvation of heathens , and yet deny it to those who own all the fundamentals of christianity ; when we see how much you lay the weight of salvation upon being in your church , and what wayes you have for those who are in it to reconcile the hopes of salvation with the practise of sin , what can we otherwise imagine , but it is the interess of your church that you more aim at than the salvation of mens-souls . for you have so many wayes to give indulgence in sin to those who desire it , and yet such ready wayes of pardon , and such an easie task of repentance , and so little troublesome means of obtaining grace by the sacraments , ex opere operato , that it is hard conceiving what way a man should sooner take , who would live in his sins and come to heaven at last , then to be of your church . and yet you who are so soft and gentle , so kind and indulgent to the sons of your church , are not more ready to send those who are out of it to the fire in this world than to eternal flames in another . but we have not so learned christ , we dare not deal so inhumanely with them in this world , much less judge so uncharitably as to another , of those who profess to fear god and work righteousness , though they be not of the same opinion or communion with us . yet , we tell men of the danger of hazzarding their salvation by erroneous doctrines and superstitious practises , and suppose that sufficient to perswade such who sincerely regard their future happiness to avoid all such things as tend so much to their eternal ruine . and such who will continue in such things , meerly because there is a possibility some persons may be saved in them by reason of ignorance or repentance , are no wiser men then such , who should split their ship upon a rock , because some have escaped upon a plank notwithstanding . so that considering on what terms we grant this possibility of salvation , this concession of ours can be no argument at all to judge yours to be the safer way ; and if upon the same terms you deny it to us , it shews how much more unsafe your way is , where there is so much of interess and so little charity . but you attempt to prove against all protestants whatsoever , that yours is the safer way to salvation : your first argument in short is , because we grant that you may be saved upon our own principles , but you deny that we may be saved upon yours . and what is there more in this argument ( but a multitude of words to little purpose ) then there is in that which his lordship examines ? for the main force of it lyes in this , that is the safest way which both parties are agreed in ; and therefore although you would have your major proposition put out of all doubt , yet that wants more proof then i doubt you are able to give it . for although we grant , men may be saved who have true faith , repentance , and a holy conversation without any such sacrament of pennance , which you make necessary for conveying the grace of justification ; yet , what security can thence come to a man in the choice of his religion , since we withall say , that where there is a continuance in the corruptions and errours of your church , it is hard to conceive there should be that faith and repentance which we make necessary to salvation . you go therefore on a very false supposition , when you take it for granted that we acknowledge , that all those whom you admit to your sacrament of pennance have all things upon our own principles which are necessary to salvation . and so your minor is as false as your major uncertain , viz. that many are saved in the roman church according to the principles which are granted on both sides . but you would seem to prove , that all admitted by you at death to the sacrament of pennance ( as you call it ) have all things necessary to salvation upon protestant principles , because , you say , that faith , hope , true repentance , and a purpose of amendment are necessary to the due receiving the sacrament of pennance , and these , are all which protestants make necessary to salvation . but supposing that , is it necessary that all those things must be in them , which make the necessary requisites to this sacrament of yours ? do none receive this unworthily as many do a far greater sacrament than this , granting it to be any at all . it seems salvation is very easie to be had in your church then , for this sacrament is supposed by you , to be given to men upon their death-beds , when , you say , it cannot be supposed that men will omit any thing necessary for the attaining salvation ; and by vertue of this sacrament they receive the grace of justification , whereby of sinners they are made the sons of god and heires of eternal life . but i assure you , we who believe , men must be saved only by the terms of the gospel , make no such easie matter of it as you do ; we profess the necessity of a through-renovation of heart and life to be indispensable in order to happiness , for without holiness no man shall see the lord : and although we take not upon us to judge the final estate of men whose hearts we know not ; yet the gospel gives us very little ground to think , that such who defer the work of their salvation to their death-beds shall ever attain to it ; the main design of christian religion being , the turning mens souls from sin to god in order to the serving him in this world , that they may be happy in another . for if salvation depended on no more then you require , the greatest part of the gospel might have been spared , whose great end is to perswade men to holiness of heart and life . it is not a meer purpose of amendment , when men can sin no longer , that we make only necessary to salvation : but so hearty a repentance of sin past , as to carry with it an effectual reformation ; without this , men may flatter themselves into their own ruine by your sacraments of pennance and such contrivances of men , but there can be no grounded hopes of any freedom from eternal misery . and their faith too , must be as weak as their repentance shallow , who dare venture their souls into another world , upon no better security than that by receiving the sacrament of pennance they are made the sons of god and heirs of eternal life . but you betray men into stupid ignorance and carelesness as to their eternal salvation , and then deal most unfaithfully with them , by telling them that a death-bed repentance will suffice them , and the sacrament of pennance will presently make them heirs of eternal life . so that although your doctrine be very unreasonable , and your superstitions very gross , yet this unfaithfulness to the souls of men makes all true lovers of christian religion , and of the salvation of mens souls , more averse from your doctrine and practises , then any thing else whatsoever . for what can really be more pernicious to the world , then to flatter them into the hopes of salvation without the performance of those things , which , if the gospel be true , are absolutely necessary in order to it ? how quietly do you permit the most stupid ignorance in such who are the zealous practisers of your fopperies and superstitions ? what excellent arts have you to allure debauches upon their death-beds to you , by promising them that in another world , which our principles will not allow us to do ? how many wayes have you to get the pardon of sin , or at least to delude people with the hopes of it , without any serious turning from sin to god ? what do your doctrines of the sufficiency of bare contrition , and the sacraments working grace ex opere operato , of indulgences , satisfactions , regulating the intention , and the like , tend to , but to supersede the necessity of a holy life ? and at last you exchange the inward hatred and mortification of sin , for some external severities upon mens bodies ; which is , only beating the servant for the masters fault . so that it is hard to imagine any doctrine or way of religion which owns christianity , which doth with more apparent danger to the souls of men undermine the foundations of faith and obedience than yours doth . and as i have at large shewed the former , how destructive your principles are to the grounds of faith ; so it hath been fully and lately manifested by a learned bishop of our church , what doctrines and practises are allowed in your church , which in themselves or their immediate consequences are direct impieties , and give warranty to a wicked life . which being so of your own side , we must see what reasons you give for your most uncharitable censure , that there are very few or none among protestants that escape damnation : and this you call , the doctrine of catholicks . the doctrine rather of a proud , tyrannical , and uncharitable faction of men ; who that they might gain proselytes to themselves , shew how little they are themselves the proselytes of christ. but you offer us a reason for it : because all catholicks hold , that neither faith , nor hope , nor any repentance can save us , but that only which is joyned with a perfect love of god ; without the sacrament of pennance actually and duely received : and because protestants reject this , they cannot be saved . but you are not at all the less excusable , because you assert such doctrines from whence such uncharitableness follows , but the dreadful consequence of such doctrines ought rather to make you question the truth of them . for , can any one who knows and understands christianity ever believe , that although he had a most hearty repentance for sin , and a most sincere love to god , he should eternally perish because he did not confess his sins to a priest and receive absolution from him ? i can hardly perswade my self , that you can believe such things , but that only such doctrines are necessary to be taught , to maintain the priests authority , and to fright men into that pick-lock of conscience , the useful practise of auricular confession . to what purpose , are all the promises of grace and mercy through christ upon the sincerity of our turning to him , if , after all this , the effect depends upon that sacrament of pennance , of which no precept is given us by christ , much less any necessity of it asserted in order to eternal salvation ? if this then be all your ground of condemning protestants , they may rejoyce in this , that your reasons are as weak as your malice strong . but it would be more fit for you to enquire , whether such who live and dye in such a height of uncharitableness ( whether with or without the sacrament of pennance ) can be in any capacity of eternal salvation ? for that is a plain violation of the laws of christ , this other even among your selves a disputable institution of christ ; and by many said , not to be at all of that necessity , which you suppose it to be . for neither medina , nor maldonate even since the council of trent dare affirm , the denyal of your sacrament of pennance to be heresie ; and must then the souls of all protestants be sent to hell , for want of that , which it is questionable , whether it were instituted by christ or no. but if this sacrament of pennance be so necessary to salvation , that they cannot be saved who want it , what becomes then of all the primitive church which was utterly a stranger to your sacrament of pennance ( as shall be manifested when you desire it ) ? what becomes of the greek church which as peremptorily denies the necessity of it as protestants do ? both which you may find confessed and proved by father barns , and many testimonies of your own authours are brought by him against the divine institution and necessity of it . who very ingenuously confesses , that , by the law of christ , such a one by the sentence of very many catholicks , may be pronounced absolved before god , who manifests the truth of his faith and charity , although he discovers not a word of the number or weight of his sins . what unreasonable , as well as uncharitable , men are you then , to assert , that no protestants can escape damnation for want of that , which so many among your selves make unnecessary for the pardon of sin ? but it is just with god , that those who are so ready to condemn others , should be condemned by themselves : and if your consciences do not condemn you here , your sentence may be the greater in another world . your second argument against protestants is , because they want certainty of faith by denying the infallibility of church and councils ; but this hath been so throughly sifted already , that i suppose none who have read the preceding discourses will have the least cause to stick at this : and therefore we proceed to the vindication of your censures from being guilty of the want of charity . for you are the men , who would have us thank god , when you condemn us to hell , that we escape so ; and are angry with us , that we do not believe that you most entirely love us , when you judge us to eternal flames . for , you say , that your denyal of salvation to us is grounded even upon charity . if it be so , you are the most charitable people in the world , for you deny salvation to all but your selves and some heathens . but , say you , if salvation may be had in your church as protestants confess , and there be no true church or faith but one , it follows that out of your church there is no salvation to be had . to which his lordship had fully answered , by saying , t is true , there is but one true faith , and but one true church ; but that one both faith and church is the catholick christian , not the particular roman . so that this passage is a meer begging the question , and then threatning upon it , without all reason or charity . and all your declamations about the way of knowing the doctrine of the catholick church , have been spoiled by what hath been said already upon that subject . we come therefore to that which is the proper business of this chapter , which is to examine the strength of that inference which is drawn from the protestants concession of the possibility of salvation in your church , viz. that thence it follows , that the roman church and religion is the safer way to salvation . two things his lordship observes the force of this argument lyes in , the one directly expressed , viz. the consent of both parties of the possibility of salvation in the roman church ; the other upon the by , viz. that we cannot be saved because we are out of the church . and of these two he speaks in order . first he begins with the confession : as to which his answer lyes in three things , . that this was the way of the donatists of old , and would hold as well for them as the church of rome . . that if the principle on which this argument proceeds be true , it will be more for the advantage of protestants then of your church . . that the principle it self is a contingent proposition , and may justifie the greatest heresies in the world . by this methodizing his lordships discourse , we shall the better discern the strength of your answers to the several particulars of it . in the first place he shews how parallel this is with the proceedings of the donatists ; for both parts granted that baptism was true among the donatists , but the donatists denyed it to be true baptism among the catholick christians , and therefore on this principle the donatists side is the surer side , if that principle be true , that it is the safest taking that way which the differing parties agree on . to this you answer nothing , but what will still return upon your selves and discover the weakness of your argument . for the crimes of schism , and unsoundness of faith , are still as chargeable upon you though we may grant a possibility of salvation to some in your church . and i cannot possibly discern any difference between the judgment of the catholicks concerning the donatists , and ours concerning you ; for , if they judged the donatists way very dangerous because of their uncharitableness to all others , so do we of yours ; but if they , notwithstanding that , hoped that the misled people among them might be saved ; that is as much as we dare say concerning you . and you very much mistake , if you think the contrary , for his lordship no where saith , as you would seem to impose upon him , that a man may live and dye in the roman church , and that none of his errours shall hinder salvation , whatsoever motives he may know to the contrary . but on the other side , he plainly saith , that he that lives in the roman church , with a resolution to live and dye in it , is presumed to believe as that church believes . and he that doth so , i will not say , is as guilty , but guilty he is more or less , of the schism which that church first caused by her corruptions , and now continues by them and her power together . and of all her damnable opinions too , and all other sins also , which the doctrine and mis-belief of that church leads him into . judge you now , i pray , whether we think otherwise of those in your church , than the orthodox did of the donatists ? so that if the argument doth hold for you , it would as well have held for them too . and therefore his lordship well inferrs , that this principle , that where two parties are dissenting , it is safest believing that in which both parties agree , or which the adversary confesses , may lead men , by your own confession , into known and damnable schism and heresie ; for such , you say , the donatists were guilty of . and such his lordship saith , there is great danger of , in your church too ; for , saith he , in this present case there 's peril , great peril of damnable , both schism and heresie , and other sins , by living and dying in the roman faith , tainted with so many superstitions , as at this day it is , and their tyranny to boot . i pray now bethink your self , what difference is there , between the orthodox judgement of the donatists , and ours , concerning your church ? and therefore the comparison between petilian the donatist , and his lordships adversary holds good still ; for , all your answer depends upon a mistake of protestants granting a possibility of salvation , as i have already shewed you . and , in what way soever you limit this agreement , you cannot possibly avoid , but that it would equally hold as to the donatists too ; for the concession was then as great , in order to salvation , as it is now . but , you say , whether he asserts it or no , it must needs follow from the bishops principles , that there can be no peril of damnation by living and dying in the roman church , because he professedly exempts the ignorant , and grants as much of those who do wittingly and knowingly associate themselves to the gross superstitions of the roman church , if they hold the foundation christ , and live accordingly ; from whence you argue , that if neither voluntary nor involuntary superstition can hinder from salvation , then there is confessedly no peril of damnation in your church . and yet his lordship saith , all protestants unanimously agree in this , that there is great peril of damnation for any man to live and dye in the roman perswasion . and therefore ( saith he ) that is a most notorious slander , where you say , that they which affirm this peril of damnation , are contradicted by their own more learned brethren . by which we see the unjustice of your proceeding , in offering to wrest his lordships words contrary to his express meaning : and since all your argument depends upon your adversaries confession , you ought to take that confession in the most clear and perspicuous terms , and to understand all obscure expressions suitably to their often declared sense . which if you had attended to , you would never have undertaken to prove that this lordship grants , that there is no peril of damnation in your church , which he so often disavows , and calls it , a most notorious slander ; and , a most loud untruth , which no ingenuous man would ever have said . and even of those persons whom he speaks most favourably of , he saith , that although they wish for the abolishing the superstitions in use , yet all he grants them is , a possibility of salvation , but with extreme hazard to themselves , by keeping close to that which is superstition , and comes so near idolatry . are these then such expressions which import no peril of damnation in the roman church ? and therefore when he speaks of the possibility of the salvation of such who associate themselves wittingly and knowingly to the gross superstitions of the romish church ; he declares sufficiently , that he means it not of those who do in heart approve of them , but only of such , who though they are convinced they are gross superstitions , yet think , they may communicate with those who use them , as long as they do not approve of them . which errour of theirs , though he looks on it as dangerous , yet not as wholly destructive of salvation . but since , your answer to this , is , that he mistakes very much , in supposing such persons to belong to your church and communion : you are not aware , how much thereby you take off from the protestants confession , since those whom we contend for a possibility of salvation for , are such only whom you deny to be of your churches communion , and so the argument signifies much less by your confession , than it did before . thus we see , how this argument upon the same terms you manage it against us , would have held as well in the behalf of the donatists against the communion of the catholick church . for what other impertinencies you mix here and there , it is time now to pass them over , since the main grounds of them have been so fully handled before . we therefore proceed to the second answer his lordship gives to this argument , viz. that if the principle on which it stands , doth hold , it makes more for the advantage of protestants , than against them . for if that be safest which both parties are agreed in , then . you are bound to believe with us in the point of the eucharist . for all sides agree in the faith of the church of england , that in the most blessed sacrament , the worthy receiver is by his faith made spiritually partaker of the true and real body and blood of christ , truly and really , and of all the benefits of his passion . your roman catholicks add a manner of this presence , transubstantiation which many deny ; and the lutherans consubstantiation , which more deny . if this argument be good then , even for this consent it is safer communicating with the church of england , than with the roman or lutheran ; because all agree in this truth , not in any other opinion . you say , this can hold no further than communicating in the belief of this opinion ; let that be granted , and , doth it not then follow , that the church of england's opinion is the safest upon your own ground ? no , say you , for it is not such a common consent as doth exclude the manner of presence , by trans - , or consubstantiation . but , how sensless an answer is this ! for the argument proceeds so far as all are agreed : and the church of england asserting that real presence , which all acknowledge as simply necessary , in order to the effects of it ; her communion is more desirable on this account , than of either of those churches which offer to define the manner of christ's presence , since even the greatest men of your perswasion , as suarez and bellarmin assert the belief of transubstantiation not to be simply necessary to salvation , and that the manner of it is secret and ineffable . it is therefore quite beside the purpose , when you offer to prove , that suarez believed transubstantiation : for , although he did so , yet since he grants it not simply necessary to do it ; his lordships argument in behalf of the church of england holds firm still , unless you can prove , that suarez held the belief of that to be as necessary , as the belief of the real and spiritual presence of christ. but you , after , attempt at large to prove , that the real participation of christ in the sacrament in your sense , is quite different from that of protestants : if you mean a corporal participation , indeed it is so ; but that is not it , which is now enquired after ; but , whether you do not allow any real and spiritual presence of christ , besides the corporal manducation of that you call his body by transubstantiation . if you do not , you would do well to shew , what effects that hath upon the souls of men ; if you do , then still the church of england is of the safer side , which holds that in which all are agreed . which is as much as we are here concerned to take notice of , as to this subject , the controversie it self having been so lately handled . . his lordship instances , in the article of our saviour christ's descent into hell ; both are agreed as to the article of descent , but the church of rome differs in the explication ; therefore it is safer holding with the church of england , which owns the article without defining the manner . but , you say , he proceeds on a false supposition , for both are not agreed , what is meant by hell , whether it be the place of the damned or no : but this doth belong to the manner of explication , and not to the article it self , which both equally own , and therefore the church of england hath the advantage there . . he instances , in the institution of the sacrament in both kinds ; in which it is agreed by both churches , that christ did institute it so , and the primitive church received it so . therefore according to the former rule , 't is safest for a man to receive the sacrament in both kinds . this ( you say ) is as little to the purpose as the former , because you do not agree that he did it with an intention , or gave any command that it should be alwaies so received ; but still you are quite besides the business ; for that is not our question , but , whether it be more safe to adhere to that which christ instituted , and the primitive church practised , as you confess your selves ; or to your church , which prohibits the doing that which you confess christ , and the primitive church did ? and we see , how great your charity is , when you deny a possibility of salvation to those who assert that christs institution is unalterable , or that all who communicate are bound to receive in both kinds . for all other things concerning this subject , i must referr the reader to the precedent chapter , in which they are fully discussed . . the dissenting churches agree , that in the eucharist there is a sacrifice of duty , and a sacrifice of praise , and a sacrifice of commemoration . therefore it is safest to hold to the church of england in this , and leave the church of rome to her superstitions that i say no more . here you still pretend , you differ in sense ; but all this is only to say , you assert more than we do ; which we grant , but assert upon your principle , that we are on the safer side . and so in the intention of the priest you agree with us as to the necessity of matter and form , and therefore it is safer holding to that , than believing the necessity of the priest's intention , which many deny . and if the rule doth hold , as you assert , that that which both are agreed in , is safer than the contrary ; it will hold in matter of opinion too , that it is safer to believe no more is necessary to the sacrament , than both parties are agreed in . the last instance is , that we say , there are divers errours , and some gross ones , in the roman missal ; but you confess there is no positive errour in the liturgy of the church of england ; and therefore it is safest to worship god by that , and not by the roman mass. this you answer as all the rest , by running off from the business ; for , you say , it cannot be safer to use that , because you catholicks say , that to use it in contempt of the roman missal is certainly damnable sin , and destructive of salvation . but , as it is not material what you say in this case , so it is not at all to the purpose ; for , if your rule holds good , it must be safer ; and , if it be not , you must confess the principle is false , that what both parties agree in , is the safest to be chosen in religion . the same might be at large proved concerning the main things in difference between us , that , if this principle be true , we have very much the advantage of you : as , you and we are agreed , that the scripture is god's word , but we deny that tradition is so , therefore it is safer adhering to the scripture , and let tradition shift for it self . you and we are agreed that there are sufficient motives of credibility , to believe the scripture ; but we deny that there are any such motives to believe the present churches infallibility ; therefore it is safer to believe the scripture , than the present church . so that this principle , if improved by these , and other instances , will redound more to our advantage , than yours , considering that in the case we grant it as to you , it is joyned with a protestation of the extreme hazzard which those run , who venture on your communion , on the account of it ; but there is no such danger upon the agreement with us in those principles which are agreed upon between us . . his lordship answers truly , that this proposition , that in point of faith and salvation , 't is safest for a man to take that way which the adversary confesses , or differing parties agree in , is no metaphysical principle , but a bare contingent proposition , and may be true or false as the matter is to which it is applied , and so of no necessary truth in it self , nor able to lead in the conclusion . because consent of disagreeing parties , is neither rule , nor proof of truth . for herod and pilate , disagreeing parties enough , yet agreed against truth it self . but truth rather is , or should be , the rule to frame , if not to force agreement . and to prove this further , his lordship shews , that if this principle hold good , that 't is safest to believe as the dissenting parties agree , or as the adverse party confesses , a man must be an heretick in the highest degree , if not an infidel . for , . in the question between the orthodox and arrian concerning the consubstantiality of the son of god with the father ; the orthodox confessed that which the arrians asserted , viz. that christ was of a like nature with his father ; but they added more , viz. that he was of the same nature . therefore upon this principle it would be safest holding with the arrians . . in the question about the resurrection ; the dissenting parties agree , that there ought to be a resurrection from sin , to the state of grace , and that this resurrection only is meant in divers passages of scripture , together with the life of the soul , which they are content to say is immortal ; but they deny any resurrection of the body after death . and therefore if this principle be true , it will be safest to deny the article of the resurrection . . in the great dispute about the vnity of the godhead ; all dissenting parties , jew , turk , and christian , and all sects of christians , agree in this , that there is but one god ; and so by virtue of this principle , men will be bound to deny the trinity . . in the article of the divinity of christ , the dissenting parties agree fully and clearly , that christ is man ; but the hereticks deny him to be god : if it be therefore safest to go by the consent of dissenting parties , or the confession of adversaries , it will be safest believing that christ is a meer man , and not god. from whence his lordship most evidently proves , that this rule , to resolve a mans faith into that , in which the dissenting parties agree , or which the adverse party confesses , is a meer contingent proposition , and is as often false as true . and false in as great , if not greater matters than those , in which it is true . and where it is true , you dare not govern your selves by it ; the church of rome condemning those things which that rule proves . and his lordship justly admires , that while you talk of certainty , nay , of infallibility , you are driven to make use of such poor shifts as these , which have no certainty at all of truth in them , but inferr falshood and truth alike . and yet for this also , men will be so weak , or so wilful , as to be seduced by you . but now it is time to take notice , what answer you return to these pregnant instances which his lordship uses ; and you think to take off all this by one general answer , viz. that the rule speaks this precisely , and no more , viz. that when two parties differ in point of religion , 't is in prudence safest to take that way wherein both parties grant salvation to be obtainable ; but in the former instances , salvation was not allowed by the orthodox to the dissenters . but , how poor an evasion this is , will be very easily discovered . for , . if that principle be true , it must be built on that which his lordship disproves , viz. that when two parties disagree , it is safest believing that which both consent in . for , let any reasonable man judge , on what account i ought to make choice of your religion ; you say , because both parties are agreed that men may be saved in your church ; well then , i ask , why i ought to believe that which both parties are agreed in ? doth it not necessarily resolve it self into this principle , that it is safest believing that which both parties consent in ? for if this be not safest , why should i be more inclined by their consent , than otherwise ? so that if you let go this , you let go the only foundation on which that principle stands . for if the consenting parties may agree in a falshood , what evidence can i have , but that this is one of those falshoods they may agree in ? and therefore it is far from being the safest way to venture upon that which the dissenting parties agree in . and because salvation is a matter of the highest moment , if the principle will not hold as to matter of particular opinion , much less certainly in the most weighty affair of mens eternal salvation . and it ought to be a safe principle indeed , which men should venture their souls upon , and not so uncertain topical an argument as this is . so that it is so far from being a matter of prudence to make choice of religion on such a principle , that no man can be guilty of greater weakness or imprudence , than by doing so . . if this principle should be limited only to a possibility of salvation , yet , as to that , it is easie to discover , how false and uncertain a principle it is , because it it generally the nature of sects , to be uncharitable , and to deny salvation to all but themselves : whereas the orthodox christians in all ages have hoped the best of those who were mis-led among them ; and on this ground it would still be safer to be on the sectaries , than the churches side . you have therefore gained an excellent principle for the advantage of your church ; which , if it hold for you , will hold as well for the most uncharitable sectaries that are in the world . nay , we may go somewhat further ; and , what think you if heathenism it self will be proved the safest way to salvation ? for many of you agree with them , that many of them might be saved , without any explicite knowledge of christ ; but they deny , you can be saved by it : if then this principle be found , farewel the church of rome , and welcome philosophy . if you say , they are only some among you who assert the possibility of the salvation of heathens ; you know , the very same answer will hold as to us ; for , you confess , that many protestants grant no more to you , than you do to them , in order to salvation . if you say , that heathens may be saved only on supposition of a general repentance ; that is all that any of us say as to you . so that if the argument will hold one way , it must the other too ; and it argues , you are very much to seek for proofs , when you make use of this to perswade men to be of your church . and you have no cause to triumph in the conversion of such , who suffer themselves to be imposed on by so palpable a piece of sophistry as this is . but your way is to deal with the weakest , and such as are capable of such easie impressions as these are . his lordship , from that which was expressed , comes to that which was implyed in this argument , viz. that we cannot be saved , because we are out of the church . as to which , he saith , we are not out of the catholick church , because not within the roman . for the roman church , and the church of england , are but two distinct members of that catholick church , which is spread over the face of the earth . if you can prove , that rome is properly the catholick church it self , speak out , and prove it . this , you say , you have done already ; but , how poorly , let the reader judge . but , when you add , that in the day of account , the roman church will be found not an elder sister , but a mother ; it will be well for her , if it prove not , only in the sense wherein babylon the great is called so , viz. the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth . the controversie , you tell us , goes on touching roman - catholicks salvation , and we must follow it ; though without breaking it into several chapters , as you do , that so we may lay together all that belongs to the same subject . and here his lordship distinguishes the case of such , whose calling and sufficiency gives them a greater capacity for understanding the truth ; and such , whom , as s. augustin speaks , the simplicity of believing makes safe . so that there 's no question , saith he , but many were saved in corrupted times of the church , when their leaders , unless they repented before death , were lost . which he understands , of such leaders , as refuse to hear the churches instruction , or to use all the means they can to come to the knowledge of the truth . for if they do this , erre they may , but hereticks they are not ; as is most manifest in s. cyprian 's case of re-baptization . but when leaders add schism to heresie , and obstinacy to both , they are lost without repentance , while many that succeed them in the errour only without obstinacy may be saved . that is , in case they hold these errours not supinely , not pertinaciously , not uncharitably , not factiously , i. e. in case all endeavours be used after truth and peace , and all expressions of charity shewed to all who retain an internal communion with the whole visible church of christ in the fundamental points of faith. such as these he confesses to be in a state of salvation , though their mis-leaders perish . this is the summ of his lordships discourse . which you call , a heavy doom against all the roman doctors in general ( for what you say before , is a meer declamation and repetition of what hath been often examined . ) but you ask , how could they be all lost , who by the bishops own principles , were members of the true visible church of christ , by reason of their being baptized , and holding the foundation ? but , doth his lordship say , that all such as are within the church , are undoubtedly saved ? for he only faith , that no man can be said simply to be out of the visible church , that is baptized , and holds the foundation . the most then that can be inferred meerly from being within the church , is only , the possibility of salvation , notwithstanding which , i suppose you will not deny , but many who have a possibility of salvation , may yet certainly perish . for many may hold the foundation it self doctrinally , who may not hold it savingly ; and therefore it is a pitiful inference , because he grants they are members of the church , therefore it follows from his principles , they cannot be lost . but you are in a very sad condition , if you have no other ground for your salvation , but being members of that which you account the catholick church . when christ himself saith , every branch in me , that beareth not fruit , he taketh away ; how much more such , who have nothing else to plead for their salvation , but that they are in the church ? it is not therefore the bare doctrinal holding that faith which makes them members of the church , which can give them a title to salvation ; unless all sincere endeavours be used to find out , what the will of god is , and to practise it when it is known . but , you say , your leaders did not refuse the churches instructions , for they taught as the church taught for many hundred years together ; and , what other means could they be bound to use than they did , to come to the knowledge of the truth ? yes , there were other means which they most supinely neglected themselves , and most dangerously with-held from others , viz. the plain and undoubted word of god , which is the only infallible rule of faith. and let any church whatsoever teach against this , it must incurr the same anathema which s. paul pronounces against an angel from heaven , if he teaches any other doctrine . did those then take care of their own , and others souls , whose greatest care was to lock the scripture up from the view of the people , and minded it so little themselves ; which yet alone is able to make men wise to salvation but you take the greatest advantage of his vindication of s. cyprian and his followers , for therein you say , he vindicates more the roman - catholick doctors , who had alwaies the universal practice of the church on their side which they opposed ; and condemns protestants , because , if s. cyprian 's followers were in such danger for opposing the whole church , so must they be too , who , you say , have opposed the churches instruction given them by the voice of a general council . but , who is so blind as not to discern that all this proceeds upon a palpable begging the question , viz. that the whole church is of your side , and against us ? which i have so often discover'd to be a notorious falshood , that there is no necessity at all here to repeat it . but , if we grant you that liberty to suppose your selves to be the whole and only church , you will not more easily acquit all your doctors , than condemn protestants , both teachers and people . however , by this we see , that you have no other way to do the one , or the other ; but by supposing what you can never prove , and which none in their wits will ever grant you . the greatest part of the thirty seventh paragraph in his lordships book , is ( you say ) taken up with personal matters , and matters of fact , in which you will not interpose ; and you might as well have spared your pains in that which you touch at , since they are spent only upon a bare asserting the greek church to be guilty of fundamental errours ( which we have at large disproved at the very beginning ; but , as his lordship sayes , you labour indeed but like a horse in a mill ; no farther at night than at noon ; the same thing over and over again ; and so we find it almost to the end of your book ) and as vain an attempt to clear your church from any errour endangering salvation . for , whether the errours of your church be fundamental in themselves , or only by reduction and consequence ; whether you hold all fundamental points literally , or no ; yet if we prove you guilty of any gross , dangerous , and damnable errours ( as his lordship asserts you are ) that will be abundantly sufficient to our purpose , that , yours cannot possibly be any safe way to salvation . and , although we should grant your church right in the exposition of the three creeds , yet if you assert any other errours of a dangerous nature , your right exposition of them cannot secure the souls of men from the danger they run themselves upon , by embracing the other . so much for the argument drawn from the possibility of salvation in the roman church . chap. v. the safety of the protestant faith. the sufficiency of the protestant faith to salvation , manifested by disproving the cavils against it . c's tedious repetitions passed over . the argument from possession at large consider'd . no prescription allowable , where the law hath antecedently determined the right . of the infallibility of oral tradition . that , contrary to the received doctrine of the roman church ; and in it self unreasonable . the grounds of it examined . the ridiculousness of the plea of bare possession , discovered . general answers returned to the remaining chapters , consisting wholly of things already discussed . the place of s. cyprian to cornelius particularly vindicated . the proof of succession of doctrine lyes on the romanists by their own principles . although this subject hath been sufficiently cleared in the controversie , concerning the resolution of faith ; yet the nature of our task requires that we so far resume the debate of it , as any thing undiscussed already offers it self to consideration . for i cannot think it a civil way of treating the reader , to cloy him with tautologies , or repetitions ; nor can i think it a way to satisfie him , rather by some incidental passages , than by a full and free debate . in all those things then , which we have had occasion to handle already , i shall remit the reader to the precedent discourses ; but whatever hath the face of being new and pertinent , i shall readily examine the force of it . the occasion of this fresh debate was a new question of the lady ; whether she might be saved in the protestant faith ? in answering whereof , you say , the parties conferring are put into new heats ; vpon my soul ( said the bishop ) you may . vpon my soul ( said mr. fisher ) there 's but one saving faith , and that 's the roman . since the confidence seems equal on both sides , we must examine , which is built on the stronger reason . and his lordship's comes first to be examined ; which he offers very freely to examination . for , saith he , to believe the scripture and the creeds ; to believe these in the sense of the ancient primitive church ; to receive the four great general councils so much magnified by antiquity ; to believe all points of doctrine generally received as fundamental in the church of christ , is a faith , in which to live and dye , cannot but give salvation . and therefore , saith he , i went upon sure ground in the adventure of my soul upon that faith. besides , in all the points controverted between us , i would fain see any one point maintain'd by the church of england , that can be proved to depart from the foundation . you have many dangerous errours about the very foundation , in that which you call the roman faith ; but there i leave you to look to your own soul , and theirs whom you seduce . thus far his lordship . two things you seem to answer to this . . that such a faith may not be sufficient . . that ours is not such a faith. . that such a faith may not be sufficient , because you suppose it necessary to believe the infallibility of the present church , and general councils : but that we are now excused from a fresh enquiry into ; but you would seem to inferr it from his own principles of submission to general councils . but by what peculiar arts you can thence draw , that some thing else is necessary to be believed in order to salvation besides what hath been owned as fundamentals in all ages , i am yet to learn. and sure you were much to seek for arguments , when you could not distinguish between the necessity of external submission and internal assent . but the second is the main thing you quarrel with , viz. that the english-protestant faith is really and indeed such a faith : and this you undertake at large to disprove . you ask first , whether we believe all scripture , or only a part of it ? we answer , all without exception that is scripture , i. e. hath any evidence that ever it was of divine revelation . in this , you say , we profess more then we can make good , seeing we refuse many books owned for canonical by the primitive church , and imbrace some which were not . but in both you assert that , which we are sure you are never able to defend ; since we are content to put it upon as fair a tryal as you can desire , viz. that the church of england doth fully agree with the primitive church , as to the canon of scripture . which hath been already made good by the successful diligence of a learned bishop of our church , to whom i refer you either for satisfaction or confusion . but you are the men whose bare words and bold affirmations must weigh more then the greatest evidence of reason or antiquity . you love to pronounce , where you are loath to prove ; and think to bear men down with confidence , where you are afraid to enter the lists . but our faith stands not on so sandy a foundation to be blown down with your biggest words ; which have that property of wind in them to be leight and loud . when you will attempt to prove that the books call'd apocrypha have had an equal testimony of divine authority with those we receive into the canon of scripture , you may meet with a further answer upon that subject . just as much you say to disprove our believing scripture , and the creeds in the primitive church ; for , you say , the fathers oppose us , we deny it : you say , the councils condemn us , we say and prove the contrary . you offer again at some broken evidences of the popes supremacy from councils and fathers ; but those have been discussed already : and the sense of the church at large manifested to be contrary to it . but i fear your matters lye very ill concocted upon your stomack , you bring them us so often up ; but i am not bound to dance in a circle because you do so . and therefore i proceed ; but when i hope to do so , you pull me back again to the infallibility of councils and the church , the question of fundamentals and the greek church ; and scarce a page between , but in comes again the popes supremacy as fresh , as if it had been never handled before . but i assure you after this rate , i wonder you ever came to an end , for you might have writ all your life time after that manner . for the decretal epistles ( those impregnable testimonies ) st. cyprian , optatus , hierom , austin , the council of sardica , ephesus , chalcedon , and all the baffled and impertinent proofs you could think on , must be pressed to do new service , though they had run out of the field before . and this you call a general consent of the fathers of the primitive church ; but i must beg the reader not to be scared with these vizards , for if he touches them they fall off , and then you will see them blush that they are so often abused to so ill an end . but this is not the only subject ( viz. the popes supremacy ) which you give us so often over , but , within a page or two following , enter again worship of images with as much ceremony as if it had never appeared ; but till you have answered what i have said already , all that you have here is vain and impertinent : in the next page enter transubstantiation : in the following , enter again infallibility of councils , resolution of faith , apocrypha books , fundamentals , communion in one kind , &c. to the end of the chapter . in all which i find but two things new , the one about purgatory , which we shall meet with again ; and the other you call a note only by the way , but it is so rare a one , it ought to be considered . which is , that protestants ought to prove their faith agreeable to that of the primitive church by special undeniable evidence ; but they have not the like reason to require it of you catholicks ( good reason for it ) but , you say , not that you are unable to do it , ( no , who would ever suspect that , who reads your book ? ) but because you are in full and quiet possession of your faith , religion , church , &c. by immemorial tradition and succession from your ancestours , that you do , upon that sole ground of quiet possession , justly prescribe against your adversaries . and your plea , you say , must in all law and equity be admitted for good , till they do by more pregnant and convincing arguments disprove it , and shew that your possession is not bonae fidei , but gain'd by force or fraud , or some other wrongful and unallowed means . to this , because i have not yet considered it , i shall now return the suller answer . and it appears that the proof lyes upon you : for they who challenge full and quiet possession by vertue of immemorial tradition and succession from their ancestours , ought to produce the conveyance of that tradition from him who alone could invest them in that possession . for although this title of possession be of late so much insisted on by those who see the weakness of other arguments and are ashamed to use them , yet whosoever throughly searches it , will find it as weak and ridiculous as any other . for it is plain in this case the full right depends not upon meer occupancy , but a title must be pleaded , to shew that the possession is bonae fidei ; so that the question comes from the bare possession to the goodness of the title and the validity of it in justice and equity . your title then is immemorial tradition from your ancestours : but here several things are to be contested , before your prescription be allowed , . that no antecedent law hath determin'd contrary to what you challenge by vertue of possession . for if it hath , no prescription is allowable in it . for , prescription can only take place where the law allows a liberty for prescription ; but if the law hath antecedently determin'd against it , possession signifies nothing , but the liberty to make good the title . would any man be so mad , as to think that prescription of threescore years would have been sufficient in the judaical law , when all possessions were to return to their first owners by law at every year of jubilee ? so then the matter to be enquired here , is , what liberty of prescription is allowed by vertue of the law of christ ; for since he hath made laws to govern his church by , it is most sensless pleading prescription , till you have particularly examin'd , how far such prescription is allowed by him . let us then suppose , that any of the matters in difference between us , are one way or other determined by him , viz. whether the bishop of rome be head of the church or no , whether the present church be infallible or no. what do you say ? hath he determined these things , or hath he not ? if he hath determined them one way or other , it is to no purpose in the world to plead possession or prescription ; for these signifie nothing against law. so that the question must be wholly removed from the plea of possession , and it must be tryed upon this issue , whether christ by his law hath determined on your side or ours ? it may be you will tell me , that in this case prescription interprets law , and that the churches possession argues it was the will of christ. but still the proof lyes upon your side , since you run your self into new bryars ; for you must prove that there is no way to interpret this law , but by the practise of the church , and which is the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of all , that the church cannot come into the possession of any thing , but what was originally given her by the legislator . which is a task necessarily incumbent on you to prove , and i suppose you will find so much difficulty in it , that you had as good run back to super hanc petram , and pasce oves , as undertake to manage it . he that undertakes to prove it impossible that the church should claim possession by an undue title ; must prove it impossible , that the church should ever be deceived . and herein we see the excellent way of this proof . for suppose the matter in dispute be the roman churches infallibility , this , you say , you are in possession of ( though that be the thing in question ) , well , we will suppose it , that we may discern your proofs . i demand then , on what account do you challenge this ? you say , by prescription . i further ask , how you prove this prescription sufficient ? you say , because the church cannot challenge any thing but what belongs to her . i demand a proof of that : your answer must be , because the church cannot be deceived ; so that the proof at last comes to this , the church is infallible because she is infallible . well , but suppose this infallibility challenged , be only an infallibility of tradition , and not a doctrinal infallibility in either pope or councils . yet still i am as unsatisfied as ever . for i ask , whether am i bound to believe what the present church delivers to be infallible ? yes . on what account am i bound to believe it ? because the present church cannot be deceived in what the church of the former age believed , nor that in the preceding , and so up till the time of christ. but , . how can you assure me , the present church obliges me to believe nothing , but only what , and so far , as it received it from the former church ? what evidence can you bring to convince me , both that the church alwayes observed this rule and could never be deceived in it ? for i see the roman church asserts , that things may be de fide in one age , which were not in another ; at least pope , and councils challenge this , and this is the common doctrine maintained there , and others are looked on as no members of their church who assert the contrary ; but as persons , at least meritoriously , if not actually , excommunicate . where then shall i satisfie my self what the sense of your church is , as to this particular ? must i believe a very few persons whom the rest disown as heretical and seditious persons ? or ought i not rather to take the judgement of the greatest and most approved persons in that church ? and these disown any such doctrine ; but assert that the church may determine things de fide which were not so before : in which case i ask , whether , when a thing is de novo determined to be de fide , that church believed as the precedent did , or no ? if it did , how comes any thing to be de fide which was not before ? if it did not , what assurance can i have that every age of the church believes just as the precedent did , and no otherwise ? when i see they profess the contrary . and if a thing may be de fide in one age , which was not in a foregoing , then a church may deliver that as a matter of faith at one time , which was never accounted so before : by which means the present church may oblige me to believe that as a matter of faith which never was so in christ or the apostles times , and so the infallibility on the account of tradition is destroyed . . what security is there , that in no age of the church any practises should come in , which were not used in the precedent ? you may say , because they could not be deceived what their fore fathers did ; but that satisfies not , unless you prove that all the church in every age looked upon it self as obliged to do nothing at all , but what their fore-fathers did . for although they might know never so much what was done by them , if they did not judge themselves bound to observe unalterably what they did , this doth not hinder at all , but new customs and opinions might be introduced in the church . and therefore i cannot but justly wonder , that any men of parts who professedly disown the vulgar wayes of establishing the roman church should think to satisfie themselves with orall tradition , and cry it up as so impregnable a thing . because no age of the church can be deceived in what the foregoing did and taught . whereas a very little of that reason , which these men pretend to , might acquaint them , that the force of it doth not lye in their capacity to know what was done by others , but in their obligation not to vary at all from it . for the main weight of the argument lyes here , that nothing hath been changed in the faith or practise of the church , which being the thing to be proved , the bare knowledge of what was believed or practised , is not sufficient to prove it ; for men may know very well what others believe and do , and yet may believe and do quite contrary themselves . but the only thing to be proved in this case is , that every age of the church , and all persons in it looked upon themselves as obliged , not to vary in any thing from the doctrine or practise of the precedent age . and i pray let me know by what demonstrative medium can this be proved ; for no less then demonstrations are spoken of by the magnifiers of this way ; although there be so little evidence in it , that it cannot work but upon a very weak understanding . must that obligation to observe all which the precedent age believed or practised be proved by reason , particular testimony , or universal tradition ? and let the extollers of this way take their choice , so they will undertake to bring evidence equal to the weight which depends upon it . it is hard to conceive what reason should inforce it , but such as proves the impossibility of the contrary : and they have understandings of another mould from others , who can conceive it impossible that men should not think themselves obliged to believe and do all just as their predecessours did . if particular testimonies could be produced , they signifie no more , then their own judgements ; but we are enquiring for the judgement of every age of the church , and the persons who live in it . and to prove an universal tradition of this obligation is the most difficult task of all , for it depends upon the truth of that which is to be proved by it . for if they did not think themselves obliged to believe and do what their predecessours did , they could not think themselves bound to deliver such an obligation to their posterity to do it . and therefore you must first prove the obligation it self , before you can prove the universal tradition of it . for although one age may deliver it , yet you cannot be assured that a former age did it to them ; unless you can prove , the same sense of this obligation ran through them all . but this is so far from being an universal tradition , that the present age from which it begins was never agreed in it , as i have shewed already . . it is to no purpose to prove the impossibility of motion , when i see men move : no more is it to prove that no age of the church could vary from the foregoing , when we can evidently prove that they have done it . and therefore this argument is intended only to catch easie minds that care not for a search into the history of the several ages of the church , but had rather sit down with a superficial subtilty ▪ than spend time in further enquiries . for this argument proceeds just as if men should prove the world eternal by this medium ; the present age sees no alteration in it , and they could not be deceived in what their fore fathers believed , nor they in theirs , and so on in infinitum ; for no men did ever see the world made : and therefore it was never made , and so eternal . but if we go about to prove by reason the production of the world , or by scripture to shew that it was once made , then this oral tradition is spoiled . and so it is in the present case ; these men attempt to prove there could never be any alteration in the faith or practise of the church since christs time ; for the present age delivers what it had from the precedent , and so up till the first institution of the church : but in the mean time , if we can evidently prove that there have been such alterations in the church , then it is to no purpose to prove that impossible which we see actually done . and this appears , not only because the scripture supposes a degeneracy in the christian church , which could never be , if every age of the church did infallibly believe and practise as the precedent up to christs time did ; but because we can produce clear evidence , that some things are delivered by the present church which must be brought in by some age since the time of christ. for which i shall refer you to what i have said already concerning communion in one kind , invocation of saints , and worship of images . in all which i have proved evidently , that they were not in use in some ages of the christian church ; and it is as evident that these are delivered by the present church ; and therefore this principle must needs be false . for by these things it appears , that one age of the church may differ in practise or opinion from another , and therefore this oral tradition cannot be infallible . and yet this is the only way whereby a prescription may be allowed , for this offers to give a sufficient title if it could be made good . but bare possession in matters of religion is a most sensless plea ; and which would justifie heathenism and mahumetism as well as your church . . it were worth knowing , what you mean by full and quiet possession of your faith , religion , and church , which you say you were in . either you mean , that you did believe the doctrines of your church your selves , or that we were bound to believe them too . if you mean only the former , you are in as full possession of them as ever , for i suppose all in your church do believe them ; if you intend by this possession , that we ought to believe them because you did , this is a prescription indeed , but without any ground or reason . for even tertullian whom you cite for prescribing against hereticks , sayes , that nothing can be prescribed against truth , non spatium temporum , non patrocinia personarum , non privilegium regionum . neither length of time , nor authority of persons , nor priviledge of places . if you say , it was truth you were in possession of , that is the thing to be proved ; and if you can make that appear we will not disturb your possession at all . but you must be sure to prove it by something else besides your quiet and full possession ; unless you can prove it impossible that you should be possessed of falshoods ; but we have evidently shewn the contrary already . and if we examine a little further what this possession is , we shall see what an excellent right it gives you to prescribe by . you were possessed of your faith , religion , and church , i. e. you did believe the roman church infallible , you believed the popes supremacy , transubstantiation , purgatory , &c. and what then ? do you not believe them still ? yes doubtless . but , what is your quarrel with us then ? do we hinder you the possession of them ? no , but we ought to believe them too . but , why so ? because you are in possession of them . what , must we then believe whatever you do , whether it be true or false ? if this be the meaning of your possession , you ought well to prove it , or else we shall call it vsurpation . for it is a most ridiculous thing for you to talk of possession , when the question is , whether there be any such things in the world or no , as those you say you are possessed of ? we deny your churches infallibility , the popes supremacy , purgatory , &c. you must first prove there are such things in rerum naturâ , as purgatory , transubstantiation , &c. before you can say , you are possessed of them : you must convince us , that your church is infallible , and that the pope was made head of the church by christ , and then we will grant you are in full possession of them , but not before . so that you see , the question is not concerning the manner of possession , but of the things themselves , which you call your faith , religion , and church , in opposition to ours ; and therefore it is impossible to plead prescription , where there never was any possession at all . and therefore you clearly mistake when you call us , the aggressors , for you are plainly the imposers in this case , and quarrel with us for not believing what you would have us ; and therefore you are bound to prove , and not we . so that there is nothing you could challenge any possession of in the church of england , but some authority which the pope had , which you elsewhere confess he might he deprived of , as he was in king henry 's time ; and which we offer to prove that he was not possessor bonae fidei of , but that he came to it by fraud and violence , and was deprived of it by a legal power . thus i have fully examined your argument from possession , because it presents us with something which had not been discussed before . but having taken a view of all that remains , i find that it consists of a bare repetition of the controversies before discussed , especially concerning the certainty and grounds of faith , the infallibility of the church , and general councils , and the authority of the roman church ; so that if you had not an excellent faculty of saying most , where there is least occasion , i should wonder at your design in spending several chapters in giving the same things , under other words . unless it were an ambition of answering every clause in his lordships book , which carried you to it , though you only gave over and over what you had said in many places before . which is a piece of vanity i neither envy you for , nor shall i strive to imitate you in ; having made it my endeavour to lay those grounds in the handling each controversie , that there should not need any such fruitless repetitions as you here give us . his lordship , though he complains much of it , was forced by his adversaries importunity to return the same answers in effect , which had been given before by him in the proper places ; but , whosoever compares what his lordship saith , with what you pretend to answer , will find no necessity at all of my undergoing the same tedious and wearisome task . instead therefore of a particular answer , i shall give only some general strictures on what remains of these subjects , where there is any appearance of difficulty ; and conclude all with the examination of your defence of purgatory , that being a subject which hath not yet come under our enquiry . your main business is to perswade us , that yours is the only saving faith ; which you prove by this , the saving faith is but one , yours is confessed by us to be a saving faith still ; therefore yours is the only saving faith. but if you had considered on what that confession depends , you could have made no argument at all of it ; for , when we say , that your faith is saving , we mean no more but this , that you have so much of the common truths of christianity among you , that there is a possibility for men to be saved in your church ; but , doth this imply , that yours is a saving faith , in that sense wherein it is said , there is but one saving faith ? for in that proposition it is understood of all those common fundamental truths , which the christian church of all ages hath been agreed in and the saying , there is but one saving faith , is of the same sense with the saying , there is but one true religion in the world . the substance of what you would inferr from the saying of athanasius his creed , which if a man keeps whole and inviolate ( as you would have it ) is this , that a man is equally bound to believe every article of faith. but you cannot mean , that it is simply necessary to do it , for that you disclaim elsewhere , by your distinction of things necessary from the matter and the formal reason of faith ; and therefore it can only be meant of such to whom those objects of faith are sufficiently proposed , and so far we acknowledge it too , that it is necessary to salvation for every man to believe that which he is convinced to be an object of faith. for otherwise such persons must call in question god's veracity ; but if you would hence make it necessary to believe all that your church proposes for matter of faith , you must prove , that whatever your church delivers , is as infallibly true , as if god himself spake ; and when you can perswade us of this , we shall believe whatever is propounded by her . when you say , we cannot believe all articles of faith on the same formal reason , because we deny the churches infallibility , it is apparent , that you make the churches testimony the formal reason of faith ; and that you are bound to prove the church absolutely infallible , before we can believe any thing on her account . neither doth it follow , because we deny that , therefore we pick and chuse our faith ; for we believe all without reservation , which you , or any man can convince us was ever revealed by god. as to what at large occurrs here again , about the infallibility of councils ; there is nothing but what hath been sufficiently answered on that subject ; and so reserving the question of purgatory , which is here brought in by his lordship , as a further instance of the errours of general councils ; i pass on to the two last chapters : in which we meet again with the objected inconveniencies , from questioning the infallibility of the church and councils , that then faith would be uncertain , and private persons might judge of councils , and if they may erre in one , they may erre in all ; as fresh as if they had never been heard of before . only the argument from rom. . . that because none can preach except they be sent , therefore the present church is infallible , is both new and excellent , on which account i let it pass . if your church , with all her infallibility , can do no more , as you confess , in reference to heresies , but only secure the faithful members of the church , who have due care of themselves , and perform their duty well towards their lawful pastors ; you have little cause to boast of the great priviledge of it , and as little reason to contend for the necessity of it , since so much is done without it , and on surer grounds by the scriptures , and the use of other means which fall short of infallibility . in the beginning of your last chapter , we have a large dispute concerning s. cyprian's meaning , in his . epistle to cornelius , where he speaks of the root and matrix of the catholick church , viz. whether by that , the roman church be understood or no ? his lordship saith , not , and gives many reasons for it ; you maintain the contrary ; but the business may be soon decided upon a true state of the occasion of writing that epistle . which in short was this ; it seems , letters had been sent in the name of polycarp bishop of the colony of adrumyttium , directed to cornelius at rome ; but cyprian and liberalis coming thither , and acquainting the clergy there with the resolution of the african bishops to suspend communion either with cornelius , or novatianus , till the return of caldonius and fortunatus , who were sent on purpose to give an account of the proceedings there , the clergy of adrumyttium upon this writing to rome , direct their letters not to cornelius , but to the roman clergy . which cornelius ( being it seems informed by some , as though it were done by s. cyprian's counsel ) takes offence at , and writes to cyprian about it . who gives him in this epistle the account of it , that it was only done , that there might be no dissent among themselves upon this difference at rome , and that they only suspended their sentence till the return of caldonius and fortunatus , who might either bring them word that all was composed at rome , or else satisfie them , who was the lawfully ordained bishop . and therefore , as soon as they understood that cornelius was the lawful bishop , they unanimously declare for him , and order all letters to be sent to him , and that his communion should be embraced . this is the substance of that epistle . but , it seems cornelius was moved at s. cyprian's suspending himself , as though it were done out of dis-favour to him ; which cyprian to clear himself of , tells him , that his design was only to preserve the vnity of the catholick church . for , saith he , we gave this advice to all those , who the mean time had occasion to sail to rome , ut ecclesiae catholicae radicem & matricem agnoscerent & tenerent ; that they would acknowledge and hold to the root and matrix of the catholick church , by which his lordship understands , the vnity of the church catholick , you , the particular church of rome . but it is apparent , the meaning of this counsel was , to prevent their participation in the schism . so that if , upon their coming to rome , the schismatical party was evidently known from the other ( which they might , i grant , soon understand there , by the circumstances of affairs ) they should joyn themselves with that part which preserved the vnity of the catholick church . which i take to be the true meaning of s. cyprian . but in case the matter should prove disputable at rome , and the matter be referred to other churches , then by virtue of this advice , they were bound to suspend their communion with either party , till the catholick church had declared it self . by this account of the business , all your arguments come to nothing : for they only prove that which i grant , viz. that in case it appeared at rome , which was the catholick party , they were to communicate with it : but this was not , because the catholick party at rome was the root and matrix of the catholick church ( for on that account the party of novatianus might have been so too , if novatianus had been lawful bishop ) but their holding to the root of the catholick church , would oblige them to communicate only with that part , which did preserve the vnity of it . for the controversie now at rome was between two parties both challenging an equal right ; and therefore if s. cyprian had only advised them to communicate with the roman church , because that was the root and matrix of the catholick church , his advice had signified nothing ; for the question was not between the church of rome , and other churches , in which case it might have been pertinent to have said , they should adhere to the church of rome , because that was the root , &c. but when the difference was at rome it self between two bishops there , this reason had been wholly impertinent ; for the only reason proper in this case , must be such as must discriminate the one party from the other , which this could not do , because it was equally challenged by them both . and had belonged to one as well as the other , in case novatianus had proved the lawful bishop , and not cornelius . and therefore the sense of cyprian's words must be such as might give direction , which party to joyn with at rome , on which account they cannot import any priviledge of the church of rome over other churches , but only contain this advice , that they should hold to the vnity of the catholick church , and communicate only with that party which did it . this reason is so clear and evident to me , that this place cannot be understood of any priviledge of the church of rome , above other churches , that if there were nothing else to induce me to believe it , this were so pregnant , that i could not resist the force of it . but besides this , his lordship proves that elsewhere s. cyprian speaks in his own person with other catholick bishops , nos qui ecclesiae unius caput & radicem tenemus , we who hold the head and root of one church , by which it appears , he could not make the church of rome the root and matrix of the catholick ; this being understood of the vnity and society of the catholick church , without relation to the church of rome : and s. cyprian writes to cornelius , that they had sent caldonius and fortunatus to reduce the church of rome to the vnity and communion of the catholick church ; and because no particular church can be the root of the catholick , and if any were , jerusalem might more pretend to it than rome , and because s. cyprian and his brethren durst not have suspended their communion at all , if they had looked on the church of rome as the root and matrix of the catholick , as baronius confesses they did , all which things are largely insisted on by his lordship , and do all confirm , that hereby was not meant any authority or priviledge of the church of rome above other apostolical churches , which in respect of the lesser churches which came from them , are called matrices ecclesiae , by tertullian and others . but you are still so very unreasonable , that though no more be said of the church of rome , than might be said of any other apostolical church , yet because it is said of the church of rome , it must import some huge authority , which if it had been said of any other , would have been interpreted by your selves into nothing : for so do you deal with us here ; for , because it is said , that they who joyned with cornelius , did preserve the unity of the catholick church , therefore it must needs be understood , that the roman church is the root of the catholick . but he must have a very mean understanding , that can be swayed by such trifles as these are : for , was there not a catholick and schismatical party then at rome ? and if they who joyned with novatianus , did separate from the catholick church , then they who were in communion with cornelius , must preserve the vnity of it . and , would not this argment as well prove the catholick party at carthage to be the root and matrix of the catholick church , as well as at rome ? but such kind of things must they deal with , who are resolved to maintain a cause , and yet are destitute of better means to do it with . so that i cannot find any thing in all your answer , but what would equally hold for any other church at that time , which was so divided as rome was ; considering the great care that then was used to preserve the vnity of the catholick church . and what particularly s. cyprian's apprehension was concerning the nature and vnity of the catholick church , we have at large discoursed already , to which place we referr the reader , if he desires any further satisfaction . your whole n. . depends on personal matters concerning the satisfaction of the lady's conscience ; but if you would thence inferr , that she did well to desert the protestant communion ; you must prove that it can be no sin to follow the dictates of an erroneous conscience . for such , we say , it was in her , and , you denying it , all this discourse signifies nothing , but depends on the truth of the matters in controversie between us . but you most notoriously impose on his lordship , when , because he asserts the possibility of salvation of some in your church , you would make him say , that it is no sin to joyn with your church : you might as well say , because he hopes some who have committed adultery may be saved , therefore it is no sin to commit adultery . so that while you are charging him falsly for allowing dissimulation , you do that which is more , in saying that which you cannot but know to be a great untruth . if our religion be not the same with yours , as you eagerly contend it is not , let it suffice to tell you , that our religion is christianity , let yours be what it will. and if it please you better , to have a name wholly distinct from us , yours shall be called the roman religion , and ours the christian. if you judge us of another religion from yours , because we do not believe all that you do , we may judge you to have a different religion from the christian , because you impose more by your own confession to be believed as necessary in order to salvation , than ever christ or the apostles did . and certainly the main of any religion consists in those things which are necessary to be believed in it , in order to eternal happiness . in your following discourse , you are so far from giving us any hopes of peace with your church , that you plainly give us the reason , why it is vain to expect or desire it ; which is , that if your church should recede from any thing , it would appear she had erred , and if that appears , farewell infallibility ; and then if that be once gone , you think all is gone . and while you maintain it , we are so far from hoping any peace with you , that the peace of christendom may still be joyned in the dutchmans sign with the quadrature of the circle , and the philosophers stone for the sign of the three hopelesse things . how far we are bound to submit to general councils , hath been so fully cleared already , that i need not go about here to vindicate his lordships opinion from falsity or contradiction ; both which you unreasonably charge it with , and that still from no wiser a ground , than not being able to distinguish between the submission of obedience and faith. for his lordship saith , it may be our duty not to oppose general councils in case they erre , and yet it may be no pride not to believe known and gross errours of general councils ; and i pray , what shadow of a contradiction is here ? and if it be pride in us not to believe gross errours imposed on us , is it not much more intolerable in them who offer to impose them ? what authority the pope hath either to order or confirm councils ; it is not here a place to enter upon again , since it hath been so largely discoursed of in so many places . but you force me , though not to the repetition of matter , yet to the repeating my saying that i will not , oftener than i should , but only to shew , how little you deserve any further answer . there is nothing now remaining to the end of your book , which hath not been over and over , even in these last chapters , but only a long discourse touching succession , which you shew your self , of how little importance it is , when , after you have endeavoured at large to prove the necessity of personal succession , you grant , that it is not sufficient without succession of doctrine too : and on that account you deny the greek church to have a true succession . and in vindication of stapleton , you say , all the succession which he and you contend for , is a succession of pastors , which hold entire both the vnity and the faith of the church . so that it comes to this at last , that you are bound to prove a continual succession of all that which you call the faith of your church in every age from the apostles times ; if you would have us believe that doctrine , or own your church for the true church of christ. and therefore i conclude these general answers with his lordships words ; if a. c. t. c. or any jesuit can prove , that by a visible continued succession from christ or his apostles to this day , either transubstantiation in the eucharist , or the eucharist in one kind , or purgatory , or worship of images , or the intention of the priest of necessity in baptism , or the power of the pope over a general council , or his infallibility with or without it , or his power to depose princes , or the publick prayers of the church in an unknown tongue , with divers other points , have been so taught ; i , for my part , will give the cause . chap. vi. the sense of the fathers concerning purgatory . the advantage which comes to the church of rome , by the doctrine of purgatory , thence the boldness of our adversaries in contending for it . the sense of the roman church concerning purgatory , explained . the controversie between the greek and latin church concerning it . the difference in the church of rome about purgatory . some general considerations about the sense of the fathers , as to its being an article of faith. the doubtfulness and vncertainty of the fathers judgments in this particular , manifested by s. austin the first who seemed to assert a purgation before the day of judgement . prayer for the dead used in the ancient church , doth not inferr purgatory . the primate of armagh vindicated from our adversaries calumnies . the general intention of the church distinguished from the private opinions of particular persons . the prayers of the church respected the day of judgement . the testimonies of the fathers in behalf of purgatory , examined ; particularly of the pretended dionysius , tertullian , s. cyprian , origen , s. ambrose , s. hierom , s. basil , nazianzen , lactantius , hilary , gregory nyssen , &c. and not one of them asserts the purgatory of the church of rome . s. austin doth not contradict himself about it . the doctrine of purgatory no elder than gregory . and built on cred●lity and superstition . the churches infallibility made at last the foundation of the belief of purgatory . the falsity of that principle : and the whole concluded . these general answers being dispatched , there remains only now this question concerning purgatory to be discussed . which being the great diana of your church , no wonder you are so much displeased at his lordship for speaking against it ; for by that means your craft is in danger to be set at nought . there being no opinion in your church which brings in a more constant revenue , by masses for the dead , and indulgencies , besides casualties , and deodands , by dying persons , or their friends , in hopes of a speedier release out of the pains of purgatory . so that if this opinion were once out of countenance in the world , you would lose one of the best arts you have of upholding the grandeur of your church . for then farewel indulgences , and years of jubilee ; farewel all those rich donations which are given by those at their death , who hope by that means to get the sooner out of the suburbs of hell , to a place of rest and happiness . for , what engine could possibly be better contrived to extort the largest gifts from those whose riches were as great as their sins , than to perswade them , that by that means they would be sooner delivered out of the flames of purgatory , and need not doubt but they should come to heaven at last ? and , would not they be accounted great fools , that would not live as they pleased in this world , as long as they could buy themselves out of the pains of another ? and by this means your church hath not only eaten , but grown fat , by the sins of the people ; it being truly observed by spalatensis , that the doctrine of purgatory hath been that which hath most inriched the church of rome ; which he gives as the reason of the most zealous contending for that doctrine among those of your party , who find so much advantage by it . and we might easily believe there was something extraordinary in it , when you tell us ; it is therefore firmly to be believed by all catholicks , that there is a purgatory ; yea , we are as much bound to believe it , as we are bound to believe ( for instance ) the trinity or incarnation it self : because , since it is defined by the church , we cannot lawfully , or without sin and peril of damnation deny or question this doctrine . we had need then look to our selves , who look on this doctrine as a meer figment , that hath no foundation at all either in scripture , reason , or tradition of the primitive church ; but much more had you need to look to your selves , who dare with so much confidence obtrude so destructive a doctine to a christian life , without any evidence of the truth of it , to be believed as much as the trinity or incarnation it self ; which expressions take them in the mildest sense you can give them , carry a most insufferable boldness with them . but these are not all the bold words which you utter on this subject ; for you say elsewhere , that bellarmin doth not more boldly , than truly affirm , yea evidently prove , that all the fathers , both greek and latin , did constantly teach purgatory from the very apostles times , and consequently that it must be held for an apostolical tradition , or nothing can be . so then , if confidence would carry it , we must not only tremble at the fears of purgatory ; but we must firmly believe it as an article of faith , and as a most undoubted apostolical tradition . but before we can digest these things , we must see a little more ground for them , than as yet we do ; and therefore you must be content to hear our reasons , why we neither look on it as a matter of faith or apostolical tradition ; in order to which nothing is more necessary , then to enquire what you mean by purgatory . for as long as you can shelter your selves under general words , you think you are safe enough ; but when we once bring you to a fuller explication of your meaning , purgatory it self is not half so evident as those impostures are whereby you would maintain it . but for our clear understanding this controversie , we must find out what your doctrine is concerning it ; for , as confident as you are of it , there are not a few among you who are afraid to declare what you mean by it , lest by that means the world should see how far it is from having foundation either in scripture or antiquity . we are therefore told by some either are ashamed of the doctrine it self , or loth to betray their cause ( who by declaring themselves ) that your church requires no more then to believe that there is a purgatory , for which they avouch the council of trent , which only defines that the sound doctrine concerning purgatory should be taught . this was indeed necessary to be said by such who do not at all believe the roman doctrine concerning it , what ever they pretend ; but rather agree with the greek church about the middle state of souls . but although the council of trent did not expresly define what they meant by purgatory ; yet the sense of the council concerning it , is easie to be gathered from the comparing of places together in it . for the council of trent in the last session when it passed the decree of purgatory referrs us to two things , by which we may fully understand the meaning of it ; for in the preface to the decree , it saith , that the catholick church had , in this and former oecumenical councils , taught that there was a purgatory ; by which we may understand , what this purgatory is , which was now decreed , and you say , we are bound to believe it as an article of faith. now in all the former decrees and anathematisms of the council , there is no place which seems to concern the doctrine of purgatory , so much as the thirtieth anathema of the sixth session in these words , si quis ita reatum poenae aeternae deleri dixerit ; ut nullus remaneat reatus poenae temporalis exsolvendae vel in hoc seculo vel in futuro in purgatorio , antequam ad regna coelorum aditus patere possit ; anathema sit . if any one shall affirm that the guilt of eternal punishment is so forgiven , as that there remains no guilt of temporal punishment to be paid , either in this life , or hereafter in purgatory ; before there can be any entrance into the kingdom of heaven ; let them be anathema . from whence it evidently follows , that the doctrine of purgatory as it is taught by the council of trent doth depend upon this principle , that there is a guilt of temporal punishment remaining after the sin is pardoned , which temporal punishment is to be satisfied for , either in this life , or in purgatory . so that all those who are in purgatory are there on that account , that they might satisfie the justice of god for the temporal punishment of sin . for the guilt of mortal sin being remitted by the merits of christ , the punishment is supposed still to remain , which being exchanged from eternal to temporal by the keyes of the church , this punishment remains to be satisfied for , in the pains of purgatory . but this punishment being temporal , the possibility of a release from them is necessarily supposed before the day of judgement ; for the council of trent in the decree of purgatory , declares that the souls there detained are relieved by the prayers of the faithful , and especially by the sacrifice of the altar . which , in the session , it saith , is offer'd pro defunctis in christo nondum ad plenum purgatis , for the departed in christ not yet fully purg'd . so that the satisfaction of the debt of temporal punishment which remains when the sin is pardoned , and the translation of souls from thence to heaven by the prayers of the living and the sacrifice of the mass , are the main foundations of the doctrine of your church concerning purgatory . and this will further appear by the state of the controversie between the greek and latin church upon this subject . for the main thing which the greeks objected against the latins , was this temporary punishment for sin , in a future state : for they say , in their apology delivered into the council of basil , we own no purgatory fire , nor any temporary punishment by fire which shall have an end ; for we received no such thing by tradition , nor doth the eastern church confess it . and afterwards ; we deny that any souls pass through this fire to eternal fire ; for in saying so , we should weaken the consent of the whole church : and it is to be fear'd , if we should assert such a temporary fire , that people would be apt to believe that all the fire in the other life were only temporary ; by which means they would fall into such neglect and carelesness , that they would make the more fuel for eternal fire . and therefore they conclude , that they neither have nor shall assert any such purgatory fire . but you would seem to perswade us , that the contest between the greeks and latins was only , whether the fire of purgatory were material or no ; for you say , the greeks in the council of florence never doubted in the least measure , nor denyed purgatory it self , but only question'd , whether the fire were material or metaphorical . but if you speak of those greeks , who held to what was generally received in the greek church ; you are very much deceived therein , for the sense of the greek church was fully delivered by them in this apology , penned , as is supposed , by marcus ephesius but the year before at the council of basil ; and herein they not only dispute against the fire , but against any such state of purgation after this life , by the undergoing any temporary punishment for sin . for thus that apology ends ; for these causes the doctrine proposed of a purgatory fire is to be cast out of the church , as that which tends to slacken the endeavours of the diligent , and which hinders them from doing their utmost to purge themselves in this life , since another purgation is expected after it . is not this plain enough for their denyal of any state of purgation after this life , by which men might satisfie for the temporary punishment of sin , and be translated out of that state to the kingdom of heaven ? and thence , although in the bull of vnion published by eugenius . at the concluding the florentine council , no more was concluded , than that those penitents who departed this life , before they had satisfied for their former sins by worthy fruits of pennance , should have their souls purged after death , poenis purgatoriis , with purgatory punishments , yet marcus eugenicus utterly refused to subscribe it thus ; which certainly he would never have done if all the controversie had been only , whether the fire were real or metaphorical . and the whole greek church utterly refused those terms of union , and therefore alphonsus à castro recounts the denying purgatory among the errours of the greeks . the greeks indeed do not believe that any souls enjoy the beatifical vision before the day of judgement , and on that account they allow of prayer for the dead , notwith any respect to a deliverance of souls out of purgatory , but to the participation of their happiness at the great day . but there is a great deal of difference between this opinion , and that of your church ; for they believe all souls of believers to be in expectation of the final judgement but without any temporary punishment for sin , or any release from that punishment by the prayers of the living , which your church asserts ; and is the proper state of the question concerning purgatory . which is not , whether there be any middle state wherein the souls of the faithful may continue in expectation of the final consummation of their happiness at the great day ; nor , whether it be lawful in that sense for the church on earth to pray for departed souls in order to their final justification at the day of judgment , or in st. pauls language , that god would have mercy on them in that day ; but , whether there be such a state , wherein the souls of men undergo a temporary punishment for sin , the guilt being pardoned , out of which they may be released by the prayers of the living , and translated from purgatory to the kingdom of heaven , before the day of resurrection . this is the true state of the question between us and the church of rome ; and now we come to examine , whether your doctrine concerning purgatory be either an article of faith , or apostolical tradition ; which how confidently so ever you may assert , we shall find your confidence built on very little reason . which we may the easier believe , since there are so many among your selves , who do not think themselves obliged to own this doctrine of your church concerning purgatory . nay , we have not only the confession of several of your party , that your doctrine of purgatory was not known in the primitive church , as alphonsus à castro , roffensis , polydore , &c. and of others , that it cannot be sufficiently proved from scripture , as petrus â soto , perionius , bulenger , whose testimonies are produced by others ; but there are some persons of note among you , who have expresly denied the doctrine it self , and confuted the pretended reasons which are given for it . petrus picherellus , saith , there is no fuel to be found in scripture , either to kindle or maintain the fire of purgatory ; and which afterwards he largely disproves in his excellent discourse de missâ . father barns acknowledges , that the punishment of souls in purgatory , is a thing which lyes meerly in humane opinion , which cannot be firmly deduced from scriptures , fathers , or councils . yea , ( saith he , with submission to better judgements ) the opposite opinion seems more agreeable to them . but later then these , you cannot but know , who it is here at home , that hath not only pull'd down the superstructure , but raced the very foundations of your doctrine of purgatory in his discourse de medio animarum statu : wherein he professedly disproves the doctrine of your church ( though he is loath to own it to be so ) in this particular , and shews at large , that it hath no foundation at all , either in scripture , antiquity , or reason . but if your doctrine of purgatory be to be believed as an article of faith , and apostolical tradition if any be ; how come these differences among your selves about it ? how comes that authour not to be answered , and his reasons satisfied ? but if you be not agreed among your selves , what this article of faith is , you are most unreasonable men , to tell us , we are as much bound to believe it as the trinity , or incarnation . we ask you , what it is we are bound to believe ? you tell us , according to the sense of your church , the punishment of souls in a future state , out of which they may be delivered by the prayers of the faithful , and translated into the kingdom of heaven ; another he denies all this , and saith , we are in effect only bound to believe , that faithful souls do not enjoy their full happiness till the resurrection , and that there is no deliverance at all out of any state in which mens souls are after death , till the day of judgement ; and that the prayers of the church , only respect that day ; but that the former doctrine is so far from being an article of faith , that it is contrary to scripture , antiquity , and reason . if such a state of expectation wherein faithful souls are at rest ( but according to different degrees of grace which they had at their departure hence , and look for the day of resurrection , when they shall have a perfect consummation of their bliss ) were all the purgatory which your church asserted , the breach might be far nearer closing as to this article , than now it is . for although we find some particular persons ready to give a fair and tolerable sense of your doctrine herein ; yet we cannot be ignorant , that the general apprehension and sense of your church is directly contrary ; and those persons who have discovered the freedom of their judgements as to this and other particulars , know how much it concerns them to keep a due distance from rome , if they would preserve the freedom of their persons . but you are not one of those that hath cause for any such fears : for what ever bellarmin saith , you are ready to swear to it , and accordingly set your self to the defence of purgatory upon his principles ; which are far more suitable to the doctrine of your church , than to scripture or antiquity . but because this controversie is not managed between his lordship and you about the sense of the scripture , but the fathers concerning it ; i must therefore enquire , whether your doctrine of purgatory were ever owned by the fathers as an article of faith or apostolical tradition . and that i may the more fully clear it , before i come to examine your proofs for it , i shall lay down some general considerations . . nothing ought to be looked on as an article of faith among the fathers , but what they declare , that they believe on the account of divine revelation . as to all other things which they assert , we may look on them as private opinions of particular persons , but not as such things which were received as articles of faith. for whatsoever is received as such , it must be wholly on the account of gods revealing it , who only can oblige us to believe with that assent which is required to faith. and if it be so as to all other things , much more certainly as to the future state of souls , of which we can know nothing certainly without divine revelation . for since the remission of sins , and the happiness of the future life , depend upon the goodness and mercy of god , we can define nothing as to these things any further then god hath declared them . if god hath declared that remission of sins lyes in the taking away the obligation to punishment , it will be a contradiction to say , that he pardons those whom he exacts the punishment of sin from , purely to satisfie his justice ; if he hath declared , that the souls of the faithful are in joy and felicity assoon as they are delivered out of this sinful world , it is impossible they should undergo unsufferable pains , though not to eternity . i dispute not now , whether he hath so revealed these things , but that it is impossible for any thing to be looked on as an article of faith , but what hath clear divine revelation for it . and therefore , although many testimonies of the fathers might be produced one way or other , as to these things ; when they speak only their own fancies and imaginations , and not what god hath revealed , they cannot , all put together , make the opinion they assert to be an article of faith. nothing is more apparent , then that the itching curiosity of humane nature to know more then god hath revealed , concerning the future state of souls , did betimes discover it self in the church . but the strange diversity of these imaginations were a sufficient evidence , that they speak not by any certain rule , but according to their different fancies ; and therefore that they did not deliver any doctrine of faith , but only their own private opinions . if you would therefore prove , that the fathers did own purgatory as an article of faith , you must not think it enough to prove , that one or two of the fathers did speak something tending to it , but that all who had occasion to mention it , did speak of it as the doctrine of the church , and that which came from an immediate divine revelation . . there is no reason , that should be looked on as an article of faith , which , they who seemed to assert it most , did build on such places , which they acknowledged themselves to be very obscure . for since they deduced it from scripture , it is apparent that they did not believe it on the account of any unwritten word , or divine revelation conveyed meerly by tradition ; and since they confess the places to be very difficult , it is unreasonable to judge , that they looked on that as a matter of faith , which they supposed was contained in them . as for instance , st. austin in several places asserts , that all things necessary to be believed are clearly revealed in scripture ; and withall he sayes , that the place cor. . . is very difficult and obscure , and that it is one of those places in st. paul , which st. peter saith are hard to be understood ; and therefore it is not conceivable that s. austin should make any thing a matter of faith , which he founds upon this place . and this is the great and almost only considerable place , which he or the rest of the fathers did insist on , as to the nature of that purgation which was to be in a future state . . that cannot be looked on as an article of faith to such persons , who express their own doubts concerning the truth of it . for whatever is owned as an article of faith by any person , is thereby acknowledged to be firmly believed by him . now upon our enquiry into the fathers we shall find , the first person who seemed to assert that any faithful souls passed through a fire of purgation before the day of judgement , was st. austin : but he delivers his judgement with so much fear and hesitancy , that any one may easily see that he was far from making it any article of faith. we must consider then , that in st. augustin's time , there were many , who though they denied origen's opinion as to the salvation at last of all persons ; yet were very willing to believe it , as to all those who died in the communion of the church , that though they passed through the flames of hell for their sins , yet at last they should be saved ; and for this they mainly insisted on cor. . . where it is said , that some should be saved , but as by fire . such , say they , build upon the foundation gold , silver , pretious stones , who to their faith add good works : but they , hay , wood , and stubble , whose life is contrary to their faith ; and yet these latter , they asserted should come to heaven at last , but they must undergo the torments of hell first . against these st. austin writes his book de fide & operibus , wherein he proves that such as live in sin shall be finally excluded the kingdom of heaven ; and when he comes to the interpretation of that place , he gives this account of it , that those who do so love christ , as rather to part with all things for him than to lose him , but yet have too great a love to the things of the world , shall suffer grief and loss on that account . sive ergo in hâc vitâ tantum homines ista patiuntur , sive etiam post hanc vitam talia quaedam judicia subsequuntur ; non abhorret , quantum arbitror , à ratione veritatis iste intellectus hujus sententiae . whether , saith he , men suffer these things in this life , or such judgements follow after it ; i suppose this sense of s. paul 's meaning is not dissonant from truth . so far was he from being certain of it , that he puts in , quantum arbitror , as far as i suppose ; and yet he would not define , whether that loss which they were to suffer were only in this life or no. and , in his enchiridion to laurentius , where he disputes the very same matter , he saith , tale aliquid post hanc vitam fieri incredibile non est ; & utrum ita sit quaeri potest , & aut inveniri aut latere , nonnullos fideles per ignem quendam purgatorium , quanto magis minusve bona pereuntia dilexerunt , tanto tardius citiusve salvari . it is not incredible that such a thing should be after this life , and it may be enquired after whether it be found to be so or no , that some faithful souls pass through a purging fire , and are saved sooner or later according to the degree of their affection to worldly things . will any man in his wits think that st. austin spake this of any matter of faith , or that was generally received in the church as an apostolical tradition ? did he ever speak so concerning the trinity or the incarnation of christ which you parallel with purgatory ? what would men have thought of him , if he had said of either of those articles , it is not incredible they may be true , and it may be enquired into whether they be or no ? whatever then st. austins private opinion was , we see he delivers it modestly and doubtfully , not obtruding it as an article of faith , or apostolical tradition if any be . and the very same he repeats in his answer to the first question of dulcitius ; so that this was all that ever he asserted as to this controversie . what you offer to the contrary from other places of st. austin shall be considered in its due place . . where any of the fathers build any doctrine upon the sense of doubtful places of scripture , we have no further reason to believe that doctrine , then we have to believe that it is the meaning of those places . so that in this case the enquiry is taken off from the judgement of the fathers , and fixed upon the sense of the scriptures which they and we both rely upon . for since they pretend themselves to no greater evidence of the truth of the doctrine then such places do afford : it is the greatest reason that the argument to perswade us be not the testimony of the father , but the evidence of the place it self . unless it be evident some other way , that there was an universal tradition in the church from the apostles times concerning it , and that the only design of the father was , to apply some particular place to it . but then such a tradition must be cleared from something else , besides the sense of some ambiguous places of scripture , and that tradition manifested to be vniversal both as to time and place . these things being premised , i now come particularly to examine the evidence you bring , that all the fathers both greek and latin did constantly teach purgatory from the apostles times , and consequently that it must be held for an apostolical tradition or nothing can be . and as you follow bellarmin in your way of proving it , so must i follow you ; and he divides his proofs you say into two ranks . first , such who affirm prayer for the dead . . such who in the successive ages of the church did expresly affirm purgatory . first , with those who affirm prayer for the dead ; which ( you say ) doth necessarily infer purgatory , whatever the bishop vainly insinuates to the contrary . the question then between us is , whether that prayer for the dead which was used in the ancient church , doth necessarily inferr that purgatory was then acknowledged ? this you affirm ; for , say you , if there were no other place , or condition of being for departed souls , but either heaven or hell , surely it were a vain thing to pray for the dead ; especially to pray for the remission of their sins , or for their refreshment , ease , rest , relaxation of their pains , as ancients most frequently do . from whence , you add , that purgatory is so undenyably proved , that the relator finding nothing himself sufficient to answer , was forced to put us off to the late primate of armagh 's answer to the jesuits challenge . which , you say , you have perused , and find only there , that the authour proves that which none of you deny , viz. that the prayers and commemorations used for the dead had reference to more souls than those in purgatory . but , you attempt to prove , that the nature and kind of those prayers do imply that they were intended for other ends , than meerly that the body might be glorified as well as the soul , and to praise god for the final happy end of the deceased : whereas that answerer of the jesuite would , you say , by his allegations insinuate to the reader a conceit , that it was used only for those two reasons and no other ; which , you say , you must needs avouch to be most loudly untrue , and so manifestly contrary to the doctrine and practise of the fathers as nothing can be more . a high charge against two most reverend and learned primates together : against the one , as not being able to answer , and therefore turning it off to the other ; against the other , for publishing most loud untruths , instead of giving a true account of the grounds of the churches practise . it seems , you thought it not honour enough to overcome one , unless you led the other in triumph also ; but you do neither of them , but only in your own fancy and imagination . and never had you less cause to give out such big words then here , unless it were to amuse the spectatours that they might not see how you fall before them . for it was not the least distrust of his sufficiency to answer , which made his lordship to put it oft to the primate of armagh , but because he was prevented in it by him , who , ( as he truly saith ) had very learnedly and at large set down other reasons which the ancients gave for prayer for the dead without any intention to free them from purgatory . which are not only different from , but inconsistent with , the belief of purgatory ; for the clearing of which , and vindicating my lord primate from your calumnies rather then answers , it will be necessary to give a brief account of his discourse on that subject . he tells us therefore at first , that we are here prudently to distinguish the original institution of the church , from the private opinions of particular doctors , which waded further herein then the general intendment of the church did give them warrant . now he evidently proves that the memorials , oblations , and prayers made for the dead at the beginning had reference to such as rested from their labours , and not unto any souls which were thought to be tormented in that vtopian purgatory , whereof there was no news stirring in those dayes . this he gathers first by the practise of the ancient christians laid down by the authour of the commentaries on job , who saith , the memorials of the saints were observed as a memorial of rest to the souls departed , and that they therein rejoyced for their refreshing . st. cyprian saith , they offered sacrifices for them , whom he acknowledgeth to have received of the lord palms and crowns ; and in the authour of the ecclesiastical hierarchy , the party deceased is described by him to have departed this life replenished with divine joy , as now not fearing any change to worse , being come unto the end of all his labours , and publickly pronounced to be a happy man , and admitted into the society of the saints ; and yet the bishop prayes , that god would forgive him all his sins he had committed through humane infirmity , and bring him into the light and band of the living , into the bosoms of abraham , isaac , and jacob , into the place from whence pain , and sorrow , and sighing flyeth . and saint chrysostom shews that the funeral ordinances of the church were appointed to admonish the living , that the parties deceased were in a state of joy and not of grief ; and therefore they sung at the burial , return my soul to thy rest , for the lord hath dealt bountifully with thee . and this he proves likewise from the ancient liturgies , wherein prayers are made for all saints , patriarchs , prophets , apostles , martyrs , and others . and s. ambrose , after he had said , that valentinian and gratian were both blessed , and enjoyed the pleasures of everlasting life ; and yet subjoyns his orizons for them . thus he prayes for theodosius , of whom he had said , that he enjoyes everlasting light , and continual tranquillity : and so for his brother satyrus , when he had pronounced of him before , that he had entred into the kingdom of heaven . the same doth gregory nazianzen for his brother caesarius . now , is it possible you should think that prayer for the dead , as used in the the ancient church , doth necessarily inferr purgatory ; when they who made these prayers , did suppose the persons they made them for , to be at rest , and in joy , and in the kingdom of heaven ? and i hope that is a different state from that of purgatory . therefore you see , it is not barely proved , that some different accounts are given of prayer for the dead , but such as are exclusive of it , and those such as appear from the eldest times of the church , when such prayers were used . now , having thus shewed , for whom these prayers were made , he proceeds to shew , of what kinds they were , whereof , he saith , some were eucharistical for the blessed estate of the party deceased ; others deprecatory , and petitory , that god would forgive him his sins , keep him from hell , and place him in the kingdom of heaven : which , though at first well meant , were turned to an ill use afterwards , when these intercessions began once to be applied not only to the good , but evil livers also , unto whom by the first institution they were never intended . and he at large proves by very many examples , that the primary intention of the church in her supplications for the dead , was , that the whole man ( not the soul separated only ) might receive publick remission of sins , and a solemn acquittal in the judgement of that great day , and so obtain both a full escape from all the consequences of sin , and a perfect consummation of bliss and happiness . and of this nature he shews afterwards were the prayers of the church used in epiphanius his time , which aërius was condemned for rejecting of ; and he plainly proves , that the church of rome comes nearer the opinion of aërius , than they would seem to do . for they agree with aërius , in rejecting that kind of praying and offering for the dead , which was used in the church at that time ; which was for such as were believed to be in bliss . for , since the romanists say , that without the supposition of purgatory , prayer for the dead would be unprofitable , and at that time the souls they prayed for , are supposed to be already in bliss ; therefore they do as much condemn those prayers for the dead , which were then used , as aërius did . and it is very strange , if the releasing of souls out of purgatory , had been any ground then of praying for the dead , that epiphanius , among all his far-fetcht reasons , should never assign that , which you think to be the only proper ground of such prayers . thus we see , what was the general intention of the church in those prayers which were made for the dead , and how far this was from inferring purgatory . but besides this , there were several particular opinions among the ancient fathers touching the place and condition of souls separated from their bodies : and according to the several apprehensions which they had thereof , they made different interpretations and applications of the vse of praying for the dead ; whose particular intentions and devotions in that kind , must of necessity therefore be distinguished from the general intention of the whole church . thus there were two opinions much in vogue among many of the fathers , viz. of souls being kept in secret receptacles till the day of resurrection , and the purging of them in the fire of conflagration at the day of judgement ; of which opinion were not only s. augustin , but origen , lactantius , s. hilary . s. ambrose , and others . now according to these opinions they interpreted the vse of praying for the dead . and thence s. augustin saith , that the oblations and alms usually offered in the church for all the dead that received baptism , were thanksgivings for such as were very good , propitiations for such as were not very bad ; but as for such as were very evil , although they were no helps of the dead , yet were they some kind of consolations of the living ; but this was only a private exposition of the churches meaning in her prayers , because it is not to be found in the writings of the former fathers ; and , because it suiteth not well with the general practice of the church , which it intendeth to interpret . for it is somewhat too harsh an interpretation , to imagine that one and the same act of praying , should be a petition for some , and for others only a thanksgiving . some other private opinions there were besides these , as that of theophylact , that god did not alwaies cast grievous sinners into hell , but that the prayers of the church might keep them from being cast into hell ; another , that an augmentation of glory might be procured for the saints , and either a total deliverance , or a diminution of torment at least , obtained for the wicked ; to which s. chrysostom and others incline . besides , there were different opinions concerning the benefit which the dead received ; by the prayers of the living . for the authour of the questions and answers in justin martyrs work 's , gregory nazianzen , theodoret , diodorus tarsensis , and s. hierom , all conclude that there is no release to the expected for the sins of those who were dead . but others supposed , the dead might receive profit by the prayers of the living , either for be remission of their sins , or the ceasing of their punishment ; but they were not agreed as to the nature of the sins , which might be pardoned , or the manner of the benefit which they received , whether their punishment were only lessened , or at last extinguished . and stephanus gobarus in photius , tells us , that though some held these things , yet the true sentence of the church was , that none at all was freed from punishment . but , that still this was a question in the church , whether the dead received profit by the prayers of the living , that learned authour more at large proves ; but my design is only to give a very brief extract of his discourse , that you may from thence see , how far , by the intention of the church in praying for the dead , you are from gathering the necessary belief of purgatory . and by this a full answer is given to what you object concerning the practice of the fathers , to pray for the soul , and not the body ; and that when we pray for them , they receive ease , comfort , and refreshment by our prayers , and that they obtain pardon , and mercy , and deliverance from pain for them , and that by the help of our prayers they are brought to eternal rest and happiness . but all this falls short of your purpose , unless you can prove that any of them either believed or prayed that any such ease and refreshment were obtained by the prayers of the living before the day of resurrection . that they prayed , that god would have mercy upon them in that day , we deny not , which implies ease , comfort , refreshment , pardon , deliverance from pain , and eternal happiness ; but then all this referrs not to any purgatory-pains , which they had undergone before , but those eternal pains which their sins deserved , if god should deal in justice with them . we grant then , that supplications and intercessions were used in the church for the dead , but we say , they did respect by the intention of the church the day of judgement , and gods final justification of them by his sentence at that day . for the scriptures ( as my lord primate truly saith ) every where do point out , that great day to us , as the day wherein mercy and forgiveness , rest and refreshing , joy and gladness , redemption and salvation , rewards and crowns , shall be bestowed upon all gods children , tim. . . . cor. . . act. . . thes. . , . phil. . . thes. . . pet. . . cor. . . ephes. . . luk. . tim. . . luk. . . from whence it is no improbable deduction , that even the souls of good men , do not enjoy their full and compleat felicity , till the great day : not that they either sleep or undergo any purgatory pains ; but that they are at rest from their labours , and in a blessed condition , but still waiting with a solicitous expectation for the glorious coming of christ , that they may then receive the reward prepared for them before the beginning of the world . but , whether those souls be in heaven ( as it notes a place , and not a state ) whether the degrees of their happiness be proportionable ( till the great day ) to the degrees of grace , which they had when they left the world , are questions of more curiosity , than necessity to be resolved . but , as long as the scripture doth insist so much on the proceedings of the great day , both as to rewards and punishments , we do not condemn the practice of the ancient church in those prayers which did thus respect the day of resurrection . if any of the fathers had any particular opinions concerning the state of the dead , and of the benefit which came to them by the prayers of the living ; we are no more concerned to defend them , than you are to defend those whom you acknowledge to hold , that no souls did enjoy the beatifical vision before the day of judgement , against whom bellarmin and others dispute at large . since you therefore confess your selves that some of the greatest of the fathers did for many ages hold erroneous opinions crncerning the state of the dead , with what reason can you press us with the testimonies of those whom you refuse your selves ? and since they had so many different opinions concerning the state of souls , it seems strange that none of them ( at least till s. augustin's time ) should hit upon such a state of purgation , whereby they might be freed from pains before the day of judgement . and yet we find not one of them , which did so much as dream of that purgatory which you call the upper region of hell ; or of any punishment , which they who dyed in favour with god , should undergo between death and judgement , out of which they might be delivered by the prayers of the living . many of them indeed supposed that souls were kept in secret receptacles ; but they were far from asserting that they underwent at all any pains equal to the damned , much less that any souls were translated thence to glory upon the intercessions made for them ; others supposed that the souls of all good men were at last to pass thorow the fire of conflagration at the day of judgement ; others , that the souls of wicked men might either escape , or have their torments mitigated ; but all this while your purgatory was unthought of , and was not conceived till afterwards , through the ignorance and superstition of some , countenanced by pretended apparitions and visions of souls departed , till at last it grew to be one of the favourite-opinions of the roman church . from whence it may easily appear , how very much you were deceived , when you would inferre , because prayer for the dead , as it is now used in the roman church , doth necessarily suppose purgatory ; therefore it must do so in the ancient church : for , although we should grant the same prayers to be still used , yet since they are used for a quite different intent , that may be supposed by you , which was not at all supposed by them , nor could be inferred from what they did . and yet it is plain , that in some cases , you have changed the prayers for the saints , into prayers to them : for , whereas in the old gregorian sacramentary , it was , grant unto us o lord , that this oblation may profit the soul of thy servant leo ; in the latter books it is turned into this , grant unto us o lord , that by the intercession of thy servant leo , this oblation may profit us . from whence you may see , that your prayers are changed from what they were : for the ancient church prayed universally for all saints and martyrs ; but you think it a disparagement to them to pray for them ; and therefore from your kind of prayers for the dead , we may well say , that purgatory is supposed ; but we cannot possibly inferr it from those prayers which were made for such , who , if any , were supposed in a state of bliss and happiness . and that the intention of your church is quite different from the ancient , we now come more fully to make manifest ; because none of them did believe that doctrine of purgatory , which you assert . but herein we must follow your footsteps , and consider the many authorities which you produce out of bellarmin , and undertake to vindicate in behalf of purgatory ; to which i give this general answer , that some authours are counterfeit , and the places supposititious ; of those that are true , some speak only of commemoration of the dead , and oblations made for them ; others respect the day of resurrection , and the fire of conflagration , others the purging of the wicked , others only of a purgation in this life ; but none of them all speak of any purgatory pains of those who dye in favour with god , which they undergo as the temporal punishment of sin , from whence they may be delivered by the prayers of the living ; which is the only thing you should prove from them . and this i come to make appear by the examination of the particulars , as they occurr in order . the first you begin with , is , dionysius areopagita ; and , is not he , say you , an authour of the first three hundred years ? as though this had never been questioned by any ? if you had asked , whether he had been an ancient and learned authour , living sometime within the first four hundred years ; you should not have met with any opposition from me . but if you will needs have him to be the true dionysius , you must prove it better than by meer referring us to what bellarmin , baronius , and del-rio have said upon that subject ; and you are very strangely deceived when you say , that only erasmus , and valla , and some few others , did doubt of it ; but at present you suppose few learned men doubt of the matter . for , even bellarmin himself doubts of it ; and , what think you of habertus , sirmondus , launaeus , petavius ? are not all these with you learned men , who have all declared their doubts of it ? and so will any one else do , that impartially examines the arguments brought on both sides . but we have no reason to insist longer upon this , since you say , it is sufficient that he is acknowledged for a writer of great antiquity ; well , but what is it then this authour saith ? only that prayers were made for the deceased party , that god would forgive his sins , and place him in the light and country of the living : but , say you , both the arch-bishop and primate would have thought that man a papist , who would have made the like prayer for his deceased friend in their hearing . and very good reason they might have to think so , when they know beforehand that your intention of praying for the dead , is , to deliver their souls from the pains of purgatory ; but , if they had heard one use such a prayer in the ancient church , they could not have imagined , it was for any such intention , since the same person in dionysius is said to be replenished with divine joy , and not fearing any change to the worse , but knowing well that the good things possessed , shall be firmly and everlastingly enjoyed ; as he speaks at his entrance upon that discourse : and , if this be in effect to teach purgatory , as you would have it , you must set your purgatory a great deal higher than you do ; for , you say , it is but an upper region of hell a little after , when dionysius speaks of those who were in a region of rest and happiness . your second authour is tertullian ; and three citations you produce out of him . in the first , he only mentions the oblations for the dead , which we have confessed to be used already , but without any respect to purgatory . in the second , a mention is made of begging of god refrigerium , refreshment for the soul of one departed : this were some thing to the purpose , if you had first proved , that tertullian did suppose that soul to be then in the pains of purgatory ; for then it were but reason to think this refrigerium did relate to the easing of them . but he elsewhere tells us , what he means by this refrigerium , sinus abrahae interim refrigerium praebiturus est animabus justorum , by which he understands not any deliverance from pains , but contentment in expectation of the future resurrection . it was the ardency of the desire after that which made them pray for this refrigerium , not out of any punishment they were supposed to be under for sin , but their earnest expectation of future glory . and , since they supposed different degrees of refreshment which the souls had in the bosom of abraham , this prayer only notes the desire of the continuance and increase of it , and not being under present pains for the want of it . in the last place of tertullian , you would fain have the carcer infernus to be purgatory , but he means no more by it than hades , or the common receptacle of souls till the day of resurrection , which irenaeus calls locum invisibilem , which renders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 exactly , in which he makes souls to stay till the day of resurrection ; and tertullian explains himself afterwards , when he sayes , constituimus omnem animam apud inferos sequestrari in diem domini ; and therefore bellarmin confesses tertullian to be one of those , that held that no souls did enjoy the beatifical vision , till the day of resurrection ; at which time he supposed the order of rising , to be according to the degrees of holiness ; and therefore he makes the punishment of souls not to be any purgatory pains , but the mora resurrectionis , that they should be longer before they rise from the dead , viz. towards the latter end of the thousand years ; for so he makes the resurrection to continue the thousand years of christ's reign upon earth ; and , as the highest rank of christians should rise in the beginning of it , so others in their order according to their degrees , and the most slothful and negligent to be punished morâ resurrectionis , by their resurrection being deferred to the conclusion of it . by which we fully understand tertullian's meaning , judex in carcerem te mandet infernum , unde non dimittaris , nisi modico quôque delicto morâ resurrectionis expenso ; by which lower prison he intends neither hell nor purgatory , but the common receptacle of souls , wherein they were held till they should rise sooner or later according to the measure of their graces and sins . the next place to be examined , is the noted one of s. cyprian , to antonianus : where he gives an account of the difference between the lapsed persons who become penitents , and the martyrs . aliud est ad veniam stare , aliud ad gloriam pervenire ; aliud missum in carcerem non exire inde , donec solvat novissimum quadrantem ; aliud statim fidei & virtutis mercedem accipere ; aliud pro peccatis longo dolore emendari , & purgari diu igne , aliud peccata omnia passione purgâsse . it is one thing to stay in hope and expectation of pardon , another thing to come presently to glory : 't is one thing to be cast into prison , and not to come out thence , till you have paid the last farthing ; another to receive presently the reward of our faith : 't is one thing to be amended for sins by long grief , and to be purged with fire a great while ; another to have purged away all his sins by suffering martyrdom . did not s. cyprian , say you , think of purgatory , when he taught this ? no , that did he not , if we believe your own writers . for rigaltius tells us , that s. cyprian here speaks of the severities of pennance , which the lapsed persons underwent in order to pardon ; and compares them with the present felicity which martyrs were possessed of . and this was that purging fire in order to their amendment , which he insists on , to shew what great disparity there was between the state of these penitents , and the martyrs ; thereby to shew , that though penitents were admitted by the church , yet it was with so much severity , that might give little encouragement for men to fall in hopes of admission . for that was the main thing which s. cyprian there discourses of . and thus likewise albaspinaeus understands it , of such who suffered pennance all their life time , and were absolved only at the point of death ; these were they who were held in prison till they paid the utmost farthing . neither may it seem strange that this should be called a purging fire ; since s. hierom describing , the pennance of fabiola , saith , sedit super carbones ignis , she sate upon coals of fire ; and pope siricius in his epistle to himmerius extant in the councils , calls , perpetual pennance , purificatorium poenitudinis ignem , the purging fire of pennance . and this seems a great deal more probable to be s. cyprian's meaning , because he speaks most clearly of any of the fathers of the immediate happiness of all gods children after death , in his excellent book of mortality ; wherein he comforts the christians of carthage against the fears of death , by reason of the raging plague , which was then among them . it is for him , saith he , to fear death , that would not go to christ ; it is for him not to be willing to go to christ , that doth not believe he shall begin to raign with him ; with much more to the same purpose throughout that book , which , i pray read , and then tell me , whether st. cyprian did think of purgatory or no. i wonder with what face you produce origen's testimony in behalf of your doctrine of purgatory , since bellarmin confesses that he held all punishment to be only purgatory ; and that this opinion of his was condemned in the fifth oecumenical council . but , you say , in the place produced by you , he saith no such thing , but that men are purged according to the mixture of lead and gold in them , but that those who have all lead , shall sink down to the bottomless pit for ever . than which ( you say ) nothing can be spoken more clearly for purgatory . to which a short answer shall serve by this dilemma ; either you have faithfully represented this place of origen , or not : if you have , it is plain that origen hath been infinitely abused , or else apparently contradicts himself ; for you make him here plainly to assert the eternity of punishment , which the fifth general council according to you infallibly condemned him for denying ; if you have unfaithfully represented him , then still origen cannot be understood of such a purgatory as you speak of , but of such a one which all must pass thorow , good and bad ; and their continuance in it , is according to the proportions of good or evil in them . and of such a purgatory as this , bellarmin confesses that origen speaks : and which he places after the resurrection , and saith , that even peter and paul must pass thorow it . and for such a purgatory as this is , many places are produced out of origen , by sixtus senensis , and many others . but this is an universal purgatory for good and bad , after the resurrection , and for the body as well as the soul ; and judge you now , whether this be the purgatory you contend for or no. the following testimonies of st. ambrose , hilary , lactantius , st. hierom , &c. are taken off by bellarmin himself ; since , although in his first book he produceth them for the roman doctrine of purgatory , yet in the beginning of the second he confesseth , that all these were for such an vniversal purgatory at the day of judgement , thorow which all must pass , not the virgin mary her self excepted . and st. hierom , though he denies origen's hypothesis as to the final salvation of all , yet seems by the places you cite out of him , very willing to admit of it , as to all such who dye in the churches communion ; against which opinion st. augustin at large disputes , as i have shewed already . i acknowledge then that these authours do speak of a purging fire , but such a one as your selves disown and dispute against , and bellarmin could no other wayes bring any of them off , but by saying , that they speak of the fire of the last judgement ; by which we see the apparent sophistry , in bringing those as plain places for your purgatory , which you confess your selves , are understood of something else . it being confessed that they speak of purging , consequent to the resurrection , which is quite another thing from what you plead for . and besides , it is plain from st. hierom's words , that he speaks of wicked men dying in the communion of the church , that they shall at last be saved . and if you will needs have arbitramur , when it is opposed to credimus , to signifie a firm belief ( which is another proof of your skill in lexicons ) that which you can only inferr thence , is , that s. hierom did , as firmly believe that wicked men ( if christians ) should at last be saved , as that devils , and atheists , and other wicked men should be finally damned . for these are his words ; et sicut diaboli & omnium negatorum , atque impiorum qui dixerunt in corde suo , non est deus , credimus aeterna tormenta ; sic peccatorum atque impiorum , & tamen christianorum , quorum opera in igne probanda sunt atque purganda , moderatam arbitramur , & mixtam clementiae sententiam judicis . and the same he rather more fully asserts in the other place , & christianos , si in peccato praeventi fuerint , salvandos esse post poenas ; but you who are never backward in helping the fathers to speak out , very commodiously render it , such as dye before full and perfect pennance for the sins , of which they had truly repented : which is as far as purgatory as from st. hieroms meaning , for he doth not oppose penitent sinners to impenitent , but opposes wicked men dying in the churches communion , to the devil and his angels , and all other wicked persons , all which ( he saith ) shall perish eternally , but such as are christians should be saved at last after undergoing punishment . and it is to be observed , that at the end of the commentaries on isaiah , he immediately before speaks of that which is supposed to be the origenical hypothesis , viz. that the torments of the other life shall after a long time be ended ; and when he hath produced the places of scripture which the favourers of it did produce , he only passes this censure of it , quod nos dei solius scientiae debemus derelinquere ; which we ought to leave to the knowledge of god alone ; and then concludes with that moderation of his sentence , that he did believe the eternity of torments of devils , atheists , &c. but of such who were christians he did suppose god would mingle mercy with his justice , and that after they had been sufficiently purged by fire they might escape at last . if he had intended only a mitigation of their torments who were christians , the opposition could not lye as it doth , between the eternity of some , and the clemency of god in others , but the eternity must have been confessed in both , and the opposition made only in the weight of the torments of such who were not christians above such as were . if st. hierome doth ( as bellarmin contends ) elsewhere contradict this , by so much the less is his testimony of any validity in this case , it being plain what his meaning is here ; but that seems the less probable , because he writ his books against the pelagians in which he asserts the same , not long before his death . this purging fire then , of st. hierome makes little for your purpose , since it is only a more refined branch of origens hypothesis , and is understood of a fire after the resurrection , and that of hell , and not of purgatory , and wherein wicked men shall be purged if they dyed in the churches communion , and not such who repented of their sins in this life . but if st. hierom himself do not speak to the purpose , you hope one under his name may do it ( and we must needs say purgatory hath been alwayes beholding to forgeries ) for you cite his commentaries on the proverbs , which are rejected as counterfeit by sixtus senensis , canus , marianus victorius , and bellarmin himself . but from st. hierome we proceed to st. basil , who , you say , teaches the same doctrine with him ; if he doth , it is very little for your comfort . but so far was st. basil from asserting your doctrine , that although he speaks of a purging fire , he speaks not at all concerning it in another life , but only of that which purgeth out sins in the souls of men in this life . for he calls the spirit of god working upon mens souls , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which consumes sin within them ; as may be seen by comparing his commentaries on the sixth and the ninth of isaiah together . and where he afterwards speaks not of an utter rejection , but an expurgation as by fire ; it is plain that he understands it of the fire of affliction in this life , and not the fire of purgatory in another . but where ever you meet with fire and purging , you think it impossible to be understood of any thing but your purgatory ; it seems you are hugely possessed with the fears of it , that you think you meet with it , where ever you go . but if you will needs have st. basil to speak of a future state , then your own sixtus senensis , and estius will tell you that he is to be understood of the fire of conflagration at the day of judgement ; of which he speaks in several other places . and so nicetas understands the place of gregory nazianzene which you produce about baptism by fire , for saith he , per ignis baptismum , examen censuramque divini judicii intelligit , and for that cites the place of the apostle , every mans work shall be tryed by fire . this he calls elsewhere the last fire by which our works shall be judged and purged . and of this lactantius and hilary , are to be understood : for hilary expresly saith , that even the virgin mary shall pass through it , whom i hope you will not place in purgatory . the testimony of boethius shall then be taken , when you prove that he doth not speak in the person of a philosopher , but of a christian delivering matters of faith with an ut puto ; but if you had considered the design of his book , for the sake of philosophy , you might have spared his citation . and so you might for your own sake that of theodoret , which not only the greeks in their apology cry out on as counterfeit ; but no such place , as yet appears in any edition of theodoret. and the same greeks tell you , if you consulted the honour of gregory nyssen you would spare him too , because he was a favourer of the origenical hypothesis concerning the redintegration of all things ; and so many places are produced out of him wherein he makes the nature of all pains to be purgatory , that the patriarch germanus ( of whom photius speaks ) had no other way to vindicate him , but by saying that the origenists had foisted many places into his works . if you will therefore say , that it is a groundless calumny , to say that any of the fathers did corrupt the christian doctrine by the opinions of plato ; you must either deny that origen and his followers ever asserted any doctrine contrary to christianity , and therein contradict the fifth oecumenical council ; or that any of the fathers had any touch of origen's opinion : both which i suppose are tasks you will be unwilling to undertake . but whether their opinions are true or false ( which we are not now enquiring after ) to be sure they are far enough from your doctrine of purgatory , which supposeth the sin pardoned in this life , and yet the punishment undergone for it in another : which doctrine if it were granted at all reasonable , it would be much more , asserting it to be after the resurrection when the body might endure pains as well as the soul , than so absurdly as you make the soul only to suffer , and that too in a way the most unlikely of all other , viz. by a material fire . but it is time we come to the succour of st. austin , who it seems hath his share of purgatory in this life ; for , you say , he hath the ill hap to be used the worst of all other . because his lordship represents him as dubious and uncertain ( as no doubt he was ) in this point : which argues indeed that he was a novice in your roman faith , but thereby the more a father of the church . but you are the man , that , let st. augustin say what he will himself , will prove to his face , that he could not possibly be thought to deny or doubt of purgatory . and it is a combat worth seeing , to see you dispute against st. augustin ; but you do it so pittifully , that st. austin remains as uncertain as ever he was . the only place which seems to the purpose , constat animas purgari post hanc vitam , &c. is so notorious a counterfeit , that not only vives confesses , no such words appeared in the ancient copies ; but they are wholly left out , not only in the basil edition . but in that of lyons . and in the later lovain and paris editions . the other places , you confess your self , relate to the benefit which the dead receive by the prayers of the living , of which a large account hath been already given without any supposition of purgatory . whether st. austins doubts did referr only to the circumstances of purgatory , and not to the thing it self , i leave it to the consideration of any reasonable man , who will read the places already cited , wherein those doubts are expressed . by which one may see at what rate you use your expressions , when you can have the face to say , that s. austin no less constantly teaches the doctrine of purgatory , than he doth the doctrine of heaven and hell. which after the language of the sorbon-censures , is a false , rash , and scandalous assertion , and as ungrounded as purgatory it self . the remaining testimonies of st. cyril and st. chrysostom , only speak of prayer for the dead , and the benefit of that , and so offers nothing new to our consideration . but at last we are come to a man who did in good earnest believe purgatory , and was the first of any name in the church who did so , and that is gregory . but whosoever reads in his dialogues the excellent arguments he builds it on , and confirms it with , will find as much reason to pitty his superstition and credulity , as to condemn his doctrine . and after this time , his lordship saith truly , purgatory was found too warm a business to be suffer'd to cool again ; and in the after-ages more were frighted , then led by proof into the belief of it . and although amidst the variety of judgements among the fathers concerning the state of the dead , not one of them affirmed your doctrine of purgatory , before gregory ; yet by all means you will needs have it to have been still owned as an apostolical tradition , and an article of faith. but i commend you , that knowing the weakness of the arguments brought from the fathers and scripture , you at last take sanctuary in the churches definition ; on the account of which you say , we are as much bound to believe it as any other article of faith , yea as the trinity or incarnation it self . but this holds for none , but only those who so little understand the grounds of their religion as to believe it on the account of your churches infallibility ; which is so far from being any ground of faith , that if we had nothing more certain then that , to establish our faith upon , you would be so far from making men believe purgatory on that account , that you would sooner make them question , whether there were either heaven or hell. but though your church be so far from infallibility that we have found her guilty of many errours , yet the word of god abideth for ever , which alone is the sure foundation for our faith to rest upon . and so i conclude with your own prayer : i beseech god to give all men light to see this truth , and grace to assent unto it ; to the end , that by living in the militant church in the vnity of faith , we may come at last to meet in glory in the triumphant church of heaven , which we may hope for by the merits of our lord and saviour jesus christ : to whom with the father , and the holy ghost , be all honour and glory world without end . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e §. . joh. . , . mark . . §. . p. . p. . §. . p. . p. . sect . . p. . sect . . n. . page §. . navigare audent ad petri cathedram , & ecclesiam principalem , &c. nec cogitare , eos esse romanos ad quos p●rfidea habere non potest accessum . cypr. l. . c. . scito , romanam fidem ejusmodi praestigias non recipere . hierony . apol. . c. ruff. roma semper fidem retinet . greg. nazianz. carm . de vitâ suâ . bellarm. de pontifice rom. l. . c. . sect . . pag. . §. . p. . sect . . p. . n. . p. . n. . sect . . §. . p. . n. . §. . joh. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. athanas. ep . ad s●rapion . p. . tom. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; basil. de spir. sancto . c. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. greg. nazian . orat . . p. . tom. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . orat. . tom. p. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . cyril . paschal . . tom. . p . dogm . theol. de trinit . l. . c. , tom. §. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . athanas. c. serapi . ubi supr . acta theolog. wirtenberg . p. . &c. res. . patriarch . concil . florent . sess . , , , &c. arcudii opuscula aurea . v. ep . cyrilli patriarch . ad joh. utenbogard . inter epistol . remonstrant . p. . v. l●onis allatii graeciam orthodox . tom. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . athanas. ep . ad epictet . tom . p. . greg. nazian . ep . . ad cled . concil . ephes. part . . act. . p. . tom. . binii ed. paris . . concil . florent . sess . . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . concil . ephes. part . act. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . concil . chalced. act. . concil . florent . as● . . p. . §. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . cyril . alexan. tom. . edit . paris . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . acta theolog. wirtenberg . resp. . patriarch . p. . gregorius palamas , c. . apud petavium dogmat. theolog de trin. to. . l. . c. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . sess. . ubi supra . spalatens . de rep. eccles. tom. . l. . c. . sect . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . apud acta concil . ephes. part . act. . p . petav. ubi supra . acta theolog. wirtenb . p. . &c. resp. . patriarch . cyril . ep . ad utenbogard . p. . §. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . theodoret . c. cyril . anathemat . tom. . p. . ed. sirmond . concil . ephes. part · p. . ed. bin. cyril . tom. . p. . dogmat. theol. to. . l. . c. . c. . concil . ephes. part. . act. . p. . part . p. . part. . p. . §. . concil . floren● . sess . . p. . pithaeus opus . de proces . s.s. p. . petav. dogm . theol. to. . l. . c. . baron . annal. ad an. . sirmond . concil . gallic . tom. . p. , . quisquis ad hoc sensu subtiliori pertingere potest , & id scire , aut ita sciens , credere noluerit , salvus esse non poterit . sunt enim multa , è quibus istud unum est , sacrae fidei altiora mysteria , ad quorum indagationem pertingere multi valent : multi verò aut aetatis quantitate , aut intelligentiae qualitate praepediti non valent ; & ideò , ut praediximus , qui potuerit , & noluerit , salvus esse non potuerit . apud sirmond . ubi supra . §. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . photius ep . . p. . opuscul . edit . lutet . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . acta theolog. wirtenberg . resp. . patriarch . p. , . §. . sylvester sguropul . histor. concil . florent . sect . . c. . sect. . c. . c. , . sect. . c. . sect. . c. . sect. . c. . c. . cap. . c. . c. . sect. . c. . sect. . c. . c. . c. . c . c. . sect. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . sect. . c. . c. . §. . p. . sect. . n. . p. . §. . p. . n. . theophylact. in joh. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . theophylact. in joh. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . id. ib. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . joh. damascenus de trinit . c. . & l. . de orthodoxa fide c. . acta theolog. wirteab . p. . p. . sum. . q . a●t . vasquez in tho● . to. . dis . . c. . petavius dogm . theol. to. . l. . c. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . hist. concil . florent . sect . . c. . p. . eadmer . de vita anselm . l. . malmesbu . de gestis pontif. angl. l. . §. . p. . p. . sentent . . dist . . in sent . l. . dist . . art . . q. . §. . ib. p. . §. . p. . p. . p. , . p. . dogmat. theol. to. . l. . c. . p. . baron . to. . an. . n. . magni athanasii symbolum , quamvis treve●is ut plerique tradiderunt , i. e. in gallia à theologo tam●n inter illos doct●ssimo , acutissimuque scriptum . p. pithaeus opusc . de process . ●p s. vossius de tribus symbol . addend ad p. . spala●ensis de rep. eccles. tom. . l. . c. . sect . . patriarch . cyril . ep . ad joh. utenbogard . p. . p. . bellarmin . de christo. l. . c. . sect . ult . petav. dogmat . theolog. de trinit to. . l . c. . ita procul-dubio à nostra parte decernitur ; ita quoque , ut à vestra ass●ntiatur , à nobis omnimodis suadetur . apud . sirmond . concil . gallic . to . p. . baron . annal. ad an. . phot in ep . ad patriarch . aquileiens . pet. lombard . lib. . sent dist . ta●● inter alias accusationes hoc principaliter posuit , ipsum fore excommunicatum , quòd apposuerat ad symbolum , sp. sanctum à filio procedere . similiter & depositum , quod ipse nicolaus papa incidisset in sententiam tertit concilii . antonin . part. . t it . cap. . sect . . concil . florent . sess . . §. . concil . ephes. part . . act. . p. . concil . florent . sess . . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . sess. . concil . florent . sess . . p. . p. . §. . petrus de marca , de concord . sacerd. & imp. l. . c. . sect . . §. . p. . n. . p. . §. . p. . sect . , n. . p. . n. . p. . p. . §. . p. . §. ▪ p. ● . §. . §. . §. . bishop bramhall . schism guarded . sect . ▪ p . sect. . cap . p. . v. replication to the bishop of chalcedon ▪ p. . §. ▪ §. . irenaeus . l. c. , . tertul. de veland . virgin . c. . de praescript . c. , . cyril hierosolomit ▪ catech , . hiero● . ep . . ad pammach . augustin . de symbol ▪ ad catec● . l. ▪ c. de temp . serm . , , ▪ . ambros. serm . . de jejun . & quadrag . &c. hilar. ad constant. aug. ruffinus in symbol . c. . §. . §. . isa. . . joh. . . joh. . . joh. . . act. . . act. . , . §. . tabulae suff . cap. , , . neque si complurium experimentis fidem habere liceat , adversus nostratium haereticorum subtilitates fides catholica sustineri potest absque praecipuis hujus libelli dogmatibus , & ( si conjicere fas sit ) aliquibus accusatis . tabulae suffrag . ep . dedicat . ad papam alex. . tabulae suffrag . tab . . p. , &c. v. exemplar ipsius decreti apud tho. albii purgat . p. . eminentissimos praesules , infortunio prae●entis seculi in quo scientia ex scholis exulat , et fidei & theologiae veritates numero votorum aestim●ntur , incidisse in consultores ex majori parte & ignaros & arrogantes , qui intrepid● consigant propositiones , quas jurati asserant se nescire , sintne verae vel falsae . appendix albiana ad purgat . sect . poster . p. . a. d. . §. . ● . . n. . p. . p. . n. . p. . p. , . §. . p. . §. . n. . p. , . p. . p. , , . §. . p. . n. . n. . p. . pateret utique tandem , ipsam contrarietatem non esse veraciter realem sicut est vocalis , alioquin vel ipsi graci , vel nos latini sumus verè haretici . scotus dist. . l. . q. . sect . . p. , . quicquid sit de iis ex quo ecclesia catholica declaravit hoc esse tenendum , sicut de substantia fidei , sicut pa●et extra . de sum . trin. & ●id . cath. c. ●irmiter tenendum est quod spiritu● sanctus procedat ab utroque . scotus . ib. §. . p. . n. . p. . p. . p. . n. . p. . §. . fundata ista res est ; ferendus est disputator errans in aliis quaestionibus , non diligen●er digestis , nondum plena eccl siae autoritate firmatis , ibi ferendus est error : non tantum progredi debet , ut etiam fundamentum ipsum ecclesiae quatere moliatur . august . serm . . de verb. apostol . tom. . p. ● . edit . froben . . p. , . n. , . p. ● . impetremus ergo , si possumus , à fratribus nostris , nè nos insuper appellent haereticos ; quod eos talia dispurantes nos appellare possimus sorsitan , si vellemus , nec tamen appellamus . id. ib. non expedit : adh●c sortè nostra non est reprehendenda patientia ; sed de●emus time●c , nè culpetur etiam negligentia . §. . p. . n. . p. . n. . §. . p. . n. . aug. contra ep . fundam . c. . p. . c. ep . fund . c. . ibidem . §. . p. . ecce putemus illos episcopos qui romae judicarunt , non bonos judices fuisse , restabat adhuc plenarium ecclesiae universae concilium , ubi etiam cum ipsis judicibus causa posset agitari , ut si male judicasse convicti essent , eorum sententiae solverentur . quod utrum fecerint , probent . nos enim non factum ●sse sa ilè probamus , ex eo quod totus o●bis non iis communicat . aug. epist. . §. . p. . n. . p. ● . n. . §. . p. . n. . p. . n. . paulò post enim , lectis commentariis romae sub coelestino conscriptis , & haeresis ipsa pelagiana , & authores , sautoresque ejus episcopi , ab oecumenica synodo iterum condemnati sunt . jansenius de haeres . pelag. lib. ▪ p. . nestoriana lues successi pelagianae , quae tamen est utero progenerata meo . me tamen una dedit victam sententia letho : illa volens iterum surgere , bis cecidit . mecum oritur , mecum moritur , mecum sepulchrum intrat , & inferni carceris ima subit . prosper in epitaph . nestor . & pelag. haeres . §. . p. . p. . n. . §. . p. . n. . p. . §. . ibid. p. ● . §. . p. . n. . n. . p. . §. . p. . ● . . pag. . §. . commonit . . c. . cap. . cap . cap. . nihil novandum nisi quod traditum est . nosque religionem , non quâ vellemus ducere , sed quâ illa duceret , sequi oportere . idque esse proprium christiana modestiae & gravitatis , non sua posteris tradere , sed à majoribus accepta servare . cap. . adnunciare ergo aliquid christianis catholicis praeter id quod acceperunt , nunquam licuit , nunquam ▪ licet , nunquam licebit : & anathematizare eos qui adnuncient aliquid , praeterquam quod semel acceptum est , nunquam non oportuit , nusquam non oportet , nusquam non oportebit . vincent . lerin . cap. . quicquid universaliter antiqui●ùs ecclesiam catholicam tenuisse cognovent , id solùm sibi tenendum , credendumque decernit . cap. . mirari satis nequeo tantam quorundam hominum vesaniam , tantam excacatae men●is impietatem , tantam postremò errandi libidinem , ut contenti non sint trad●tâ semel & acceptâ antiquitùs credendi regulâ ; sed nova & nova in diem quaerunt , semperque aliquid gest●u●t religioni addere , mutare , detrahere . quasi non coeleste dogma sit , quod semel revelatum esse sufficiat ; sed terrena institutio , quae aliter perfici nisi assiduâ emendatione , immò potius reprehensione , non possit . cap. . abdicatâ enim qualibet parte catholici dogmatis , alia quoque item atque alia , &c. quid aliud ad extremum sequetur , nisi ut totum pariter repudietur ? cap. . §. . pag. . §. . pag. . quid si novella aliqua contagio non jam por●●unculam tantum , sed totam pariter ecclesiam commaculare conctur ? tunc item providebit , ut antiquitati inhaereat . cap. . §. . p. . n. . p. n. . pag. . pag . bellarm. de justific . l. . c. . sect . . pag. , . §. . p. . n. . §. . p. . sect . : n. . p. . p. . n. . §. . p. . p. . n. . p. . n. . §. . p. . n. . p. . n. . p. . n. . §. . p. ▪ n. . p. n. . p. , §. . p. . n. . p. . n. . §. . p. . sect . . n. . p. . n. . p. . p. . n. . p. . n. , §. . p. . n. . p. . n ▪ ● , p. ▪ §. . §. . §. . §. . pag. . sect. . n. . §. . ibid. §. . §. . §. . joh. . . pet. . . luk. . , . §. . §. . §. . praefat. in mat. quaest . . quaest. . in math. ad proleg . . p. . n. . p. . n. . §. . v. supplicat . ad imperat. reg. princip . super causis generalis concilii convocandi contra paulum . lond. . §. . becan . sum . p. . tom. pa●tr . de fide . c. . q. . sect . . valent. tom. . disp . . q. . punct . . sect . . colum. . p. . n. . p. . n. . §. . p. . n. . p. . n. . pet. . . p. . n. . §. . p. . n. . p. . n. . p. . p. . n. . p. . n . §. . de notis ●cclesiae . cap. . §. . §. . p. . n. . aristot . post. c. . t. . pag. . §. . ibid. §. . p. . n. . . p. . p. , . p. . pag. ● . §. . p. . p. , . in cap. . ep . ad rom. huic anacleto soli magis crediderim , &c quàm hieronymo , augustino , aut cuiviis alii recentiori , quantumlibet docto & sancto . advers . haeres . l. . verbo episcopus . respondeo , cyprianum hoc scripsisse cum errorem suum tueri vellet , & ideo non mirum si errantium more tunc ra●iocinaretur . de verbo dei. l. . c. . videtur , mortalitèr peccâsse . de pontif. r. l. . c. . haec opinio falsa est , meo judicio . de pontif . l. . c. . dico , chrysostomum ut quaedam alia per excessum ita locutum esse . de missa . l. . c. . respondeo , augustinum non expendisse l●cum ●unc diligenter . de euch. l. . c. . de verbo dei. l. . c. . ibid. dict. d. l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . de poenit ▪ l. . c. . l. . c. ▪ in mat. . . in mat. . . in ma● . . . in joh. . n. . in joh. . n. . §. . hermannus ait , scripturas valere quantum fabulas aesopi , si deftituantur ecclesiae autoritate : referente brentio . v. bailly tract . . q. . sunt scripturae , quidam velut nasus cereus , qui se horsum , illorsum , trahi retrahi , fingique facilè permittit . albert. pighius . hierarch . l. . c . etiamsi scriptura dicat , libros prophetarum & apostolorum esse divinos , tamen non credam esse , n●si prius hoc credidero scripturam esse divinam : nam in alcorano ma●umetis , passim legimus ipsum alcoranum de coelo à deo missum , & tamen ei non credimus . de verbo dei. l. . c. . scriptura debet ab ecclesiâ regulari , & non contra . caranza controv. . pigh . controvers . l. c. . valent. l. . c. . de analys . fid. bellarm. l. . c. . de verbo dei. §. . p. . §. . ● . §. . p. , n. . p. . p. . §. . p. . l. . p. . n. . p. . l. . ibid. ibid. p. ▪ §. . p. l. . p. n. . p. . p. . §. . p. ch . . n. . §. . c. ep . fund . c. . ibid. §. . tom. . ep . ● ▪ ipsa scripturarum verba ponenda sunt ut ipsis quibus adversum nos usus eft testimon●is revincatur . advers . helv. prim . sed ut bec quae scripta sunt non ●egamus , ita 〈◊〉 quae non sunt scripta renuimus : natum deum esse de virgine credimus , quia legimus ; mariam nupsisse post partuns , non cr●dimus quia non legimus . hierony . advers . helv. to. . p. . col . . ed. p. . v. ambros. tom. . ep . . basil. . epiphan . haeres . . tom. . l. . edit . petav. aug. de haeres . . v. vasquez in . p. thom. tom . . disp . ●● . c. . epiph. haeres . . sect . . p. . homil. . p. . tom. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ibid. not. in basil. to. . p. . es● . paris . . comment . in matth. . tom. . ubi supra . in . p. thom. ●om . . q. . art . . cap. . §. . contra d●natist . l. . c. . ex evangelio profero certa documenta . l. . c. donatist cap. . quid sit perniciosius , utrum non baptizari an rebaptizari , judicare difficile est , veruntamen recurrens ad illam stateram dominicam , ubi non ex humano sensu sed ex divinâ auctoritate rerum momenta pensantur , inveni● de utrâque re domini sententiam , nempe in scripturis . l. . c. . huc accedit quia benè perspectis ex utroque latere disputationis rationibus , & scripturarum testimoniis , potest etiam dici , quod veritas declaravit hoc sequimur . l. . c. . vid. l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . c. . espenc . de eucharist . ad o●at . l. . c. . §. . p. ● . §. . p. . n. . commonit . c. . §. . p. . p. . §. . p. . n. . p. . n. . p. . §. . §. . pag , . p. , . p. . n. . institut . l. . c. . sect . . controv. de script . q. . c. . id statuendum est , authoritatem humanam & incitamenta omnia illa praedicta , sive alia quaecunque adhibita ab eo qui proponit fidem , non esse sufficientes causas ad credendum ut credere tenemur ; sed praeterea opus est interiori causá efficiente , i. e. dei speciali auxili● moventis ad credendum . locor . theol . l. ● . c. . resp. ad . arg . l . c. . sect . jam si hac . arcanum hoc divini spiritûs testimonium prorsus necessarium est , ut quis ecclesiae testimonio ac judicio , circa scripturarum approbationem credat . triplicat . advers whitak . cap. . et verò deus ipse imprimis est qui christianam doctrinam , atque adeò scripturam sacram veram esse , voce revelationis suae , & intern● quodam instinctu & impulsu humanis mentibus contestatur atque persuadet ; ut in eâ ipsâ scripturà multis in lo●is est expressum , & praeclare à prospero aquitanico explicatur . de an●lysi fide● l. . c. . §. . p. . n. . n. . p. . l. , ● . p. . l. . p. . n. ● . §. . p. . n. . p. . p. . n. . §. . §. . p. . n. . mark ▪ . p. ▪ ▪ §. . p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . iren. l. . c. . quid autem , si neque apostoli quidem scripturas reliquissent nobis , nonne oportebat ordinem sequi traditionis , quam tradiderunt iis quibus committebant ecclesias ? cui ordinationi assentiunt multae gentes barbarorum , qui in christum credunt , sine chartâ & atramento scriptam habentes salutem , & veterem traditionem custodientes . quicquid servator de suis factis & dictis nos legere voluit , hoc scribendum illis tanquam suis manibus imperavit . de consens . evang , l. . c. ult . non per alios dispositionem salutis nostrae cognovimas , quàm per eos , per quos evangelium pervenit ad nos ; quod quidem tunc praeconiavé●unt , postea verò per dei voluntatem in scripturis nobis tradidérunt , f●ndamentum & columnam fidei nostrae ●uturum . iren. l. . cap. . irenaeus lib. . cap. . augustin . . cont . donat. cap. . homo itaque fide , spe , & charitate subnixus , eáque inconcussè retine●s , non indiget scripturis nisi ad alios instruendos . itaque multi per haec tria , etiam in solitudine sine codicibus vivunt . de doctr. christianâ l. . cap . titubab●t autem fides , s● divinarum scripturarum vacillat auctoritas . de doctr. christ. l. . c . ad edomandam labore superbiam , & intellectam à fastidio revocandum , cui facilè investigata plerumque vilescunt . l. . c. . in canonicis autem scripturis ecclesiarum catholica●um q●amplurium au●toritatem sequa●ur , inter quas sane illae sunt , quae apostoli 〈◊〉 sedes habere , & epistolas accipere ●●eruerunt . l. . c. . in iis enim quae apert● posita in scriptur● sunt , inveniuntur illa omnia , quae continent fidem , moresque vivendi . l. . c. . de baptism . c. donatist . l . c. . quod autem nos admonet , ut ad fontem recurramus , i. e. ad apostolicam traditionem , & inde canalem in nostra tempora dirigamus , optimum est , & sine d●bitatione faciendum . l . c. . cypr. ep . . vnde traditio haec , utrúmne de dominic● authoritate descendens , an de apostolorum mandatis & epistolis veniens ? ea enim esse facienda quae scripta sunt testatur , &c. si in evangelio pr●cipitur , aut in apostolorum epistolis aut actibus invenitur , observetur etiam sancta haec traditio . proinde , inquit , frustra quidam qui ratione vincuntur , consuetudinem nobis objiciunt , q●asi consuetudo major sit veritate ; aut non id sit in spiritualibus sequend●m quod in melius suerit à spirit● sancto revelatum . hoc planè verum est , quia ratio & veritas consu●tudini p●aeponenda est aug. de baptism . c. donat. l. . c. . quis a●tem nesciat sanctam scripturam canonicam , tam veteris quam novi testamenti certis suis terminis co●●tineri , eamque omnibus p●sterioribus episcoporum literis ita praeponi , ut de illâ omnino dubitari & disceptari non possit , utrum verum , vel utrum rectum sit ; quicquid in eā scriptum esse constiterit . l. ▪ de bapt . c. donat. cap. . §. . p. . §. . p. . n. . ego verò evangelio non crederem , nisi me catholicae ecclesiae commoveret authoritas . aug. l. . c. ep . fund . c. . ibid. n . et sic aperitur modus intelligendi illud augustini , evangelio non crederem , nisi me authoritas ecclesiae compulisset . ibidem enim ecclesiam sumit , pro primitivâ congregatione fidelium eorum , qui christum viderunt , audiêrunt , & sui testes fuerunt gerson . lect . . de vitâ spirituali a● . coroll . . hoc autem quod dictum est de approbatione scriptur● per ecclesiam , intelligitur solum de ecclesiá quae fuit tempore apostolorum , qui fuërunt repleti spiritu sancto , & nihilominus vidêrunt miracula christi & audierunt ejus doctrinam . & ob hoc fuërunt convenientes testes omnium quae christus fecit aut d●cuit , ut per eorum testimonium scriptura , continens facta & dicta christi , approbaretur . durand . l. . dist . . q. . sect . . p. . augustinus cum dicit , ego evangelio &c. intelligit de ecclesiá catholicá quae fuit ab initio christianae fidei , secundum seriem successionis episcoporum crescens ad haec usque tempora , quae san● ▪ ecclesia complectitur collegium apostolorum . driedo . tom , . l. . cap. . §. . p. . n. . p. . p. . §. . §. . heb. . , . §. . §. . joh. . ● . joh. . . §. . sect. . n. . p. . p. . p. . p. ● . §. . §. . biblioth . vatican . p. . in hâc autem germani textûs pervestigatione , satis perspicuè inter omnes constat , nullum argumentum esse certius ac firmius , quam antiquorum probatorumque codicum latinorum fidem , quos tam impressos , quam mss. ex bibliothecis variis conquirendos curavimus . sixtus . praefat. pag. . bailius contr. catech. q. · tr . . huntl . controv. . c. . sect . . iren. l. . c. . tertul. c. marcion . l. . epiph. haeres . . ambros. de sp. s. l. . c. . theodoret. de haeret . fab. l. . bellar. l. . de v. d. c. . §. . pag. . pag. . §. . epiph. haeres . . nihil mihi videtur ab iis im●udentius dici , vel ut mitius loqua● , incuriosias & imbecillius , quam scripturas divinas esse corruptas , cum id n●ll● , in tam recenti memo●iâ , extantibus exempla●●bus possint convincere . d. august . de utilit . cred . c. . quam multa soleant dicere immixta esse scripturis divinis , à nescio quibus co●ruptoribus veritatis . volunt enim nescio quos corruptores divinorum librorum ante ipsius manichaei tempora fuisse . id. ib. corrupisse autem illos , qui judaeorum legem evangelio miscere capiebant . ipsiusque novi testamenti-scripturas tanquam infalsatas ita legunt , ut quod voluerint inde accipiant quod nolunt rejiciant . aug. haeres . . evangilium quid●m à praedicatione christi & esse caepit & numinari : at verò genealogia adeo non est evangelium , ut nec ipse ejus scriptor ausus fuerit eam evangelium nominare . faustus apud august . c. faustum . l. . init . l. . init . l. . init . ubi si● man●festâ veritate isti praefocantur ut obs●ssi d lu●idis verbis sanctarum scripturarum , exitum in iis sall●ci● suae reperire non possint ; d●test monium , quod prolatum est , salsum esse res●ondent . c. faustum . l. . c. . quae autoritas literarum aperiri , quis sacer liber evolvi , quod documentum cujuslibet scripturae ad convincendos errores exeri potest , si h●c vox admittitur , si alicujus ponderis aestimatur ? id. ib. si ergo invenires aliquem , qui evangelio nondum credit , quid faceres dicenti tibi , non credo ? ego verò evangelio non crederem , nisi me catholicae ecclesiae commoveret auctoritas . quibus ergo obtemperavi dicentibus , credite evangelio , car eis non obtemperem dicentibus mihi , noli credere manichaeo ? c. ep . fundam . c. . cui libro necesse est me credere , si credo evangelio ; quoniam utramque scripturam similiter mihi catholica commendat authoritas . ib. quid ages ? quò te convertes ? quam libri à te prolati originem , quam vetustatem , quam seriem successionis testem citabis ? aug. c. faustum . l. . c , . et vides in hâc re quid ecclesiae catholicae valeat authoritas , quae ab ipsis fundatissimis sedibus apostolorum usque ad hodiernum diem succedentium sibimet episcoporum serie , & tot populorum consensione firmatur . id. ib. ita si de side exemplarium quaestio verteretur sicut in nonnullis , quae & paucae sunt , & sacrarum literarum studiosis notissimae sententiarum varietates , vel ex aliorum regionum codicibus , unde ipsa doctrina commeavit , nostra dubitatio dijudicaretur : vel , si ibi quoque codices variarent , plures paucioribus , aut vetustatiores recentioribus praeferrentur : & si adhuc incerta varietas , praecedens lingua unde illud interpretatum est consuleretur id. ib. §. . p. . n. . p. . pag. . p. . l. , . cum multa sint in ipsâ doctrinâ christianâ quae ipsa per se fidem ill & autoritatem conciliare possint , tamen mihi maximum illud esse videtur , ( ut à clement . alex. & à lactant. & ab aliis est observatum ) quod suâ nescio quâ admirabili vi , divinè prorsus hominum animos afficit , atque ad virtutem impellit . est scripta verbis simplicibus , & caret ferè artificio orationis & ornamentis ; nibilominus ita vehementer lectoris mentem commovet , ut nulla alia doctrina . quod argumento est , illius autoritatem omnino divinam esse , & non humanam ; haec enim sine verborum arte , & orationis quasi lenociniis , ad efficiendum a●imorum motum non valet . greg de valentiâ . analys . fidei . l. c. . §. . p. . aug c. ep . fund . c. . §. . p. . sect . . n. . p. . n. . p. . orig. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . l. . c. . p. . ibid. §. . p. , . pag. ● . §. ▪ ibid. n. . pag. . §. . p. . &c. n. , . de eccles. l. . c. . l. sect . p. . l. . sect . . l. . sect . . l. . sect . . §. . §. . sect. . n. . p. . n. . p. . n. . p. . n. . deut. . . deut. . . chron. . . p. ● . §. . p. . p . s. basil. de sp. s. c. . tom. . catechism . rom. de baptis . concil . florent ▪ act. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . basil. de verâ ac piâ fide . tom . p. gr . lat . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . hom. de trinit . tom. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . in ethicis . reg. v. tom. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ib. reg . . c. . basil. ep . . l. . de v.d. c. . de amiss . grat. l. . c. . §. . ib●d . n. . apud nos autem , non nova ant repentina res est , ut baptiza●dos censeamus ●os qui ab haereticis ad ecclesiam veniunt ; quando multi jam anni sunt , & longa aetas , ex quo sub agrippin● convenientes in unum episcopi plurimi hoc statuerint , atque exinde in hodiern●m diem tot millia haereticorum , &c. cyprian . ep . . de baptism . c donat. l. . agrippinus omnium mortalium primus contra divinum canonem , contra universalis ecclesiae regulam , contra sensum omnium consacerdotum , contra morem atque instituta majorum , baptizandos eos qui ab haereticis ad ecclesi●m venirent , censuisse . commonit . l. . cap. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. ap●d euseb. hist. eccles. l. . c. . quod totum nos jam pridem in iconio qui phrygiae locus est collecti , in unum convenientibus ex galatiâ & ciliciâ , & caeteris proximis regionibus confirmavimus . cypr. ep . ubi pronomen nos non de ipsius firmiliani personaâ , sed potius de ejus decessoribus accipiendum est . vales. not . in euseb. l. . c. . verum etiam omnes serè ( ecclesiae ) quae in oriente magno numero christianam pietatem profitebantur . rigalt . not . in cyprian . p. . caterum nos veritati & consuetudinem jungimus , & consuetudini romanorum , consuetudinem sed veritatis opponimus ; ab initio hoc tenentes , quod à christo & ab apostolo traditum est . ep . . cypr. p. . ed. rigalt . v. etiam basil. ep . primâ canon . ad amphilochium . tom. . p. . idque esse proprium christianae modestiae & gravitatis , non sua posteris t●a●ere , sed à majoribus accepta servare . ibid. quae san● sunt à vincentio verissimè ac prudentissimè pron●nciata , si non alia si●t à majoribus tradita , quàm quae majores ab apostolis susceperant : caeterùm , sub nomine ac personâ majorum , per fatuos aut sophist●s , asinina aut sophistica pro. apostolicis traderentur . rigalt . observ . in cyprian . p. . cypr. ep . , quantum ad id perti●eat quod stephanus dixit , quasi aposto●i eos qui ab haeresi veniant , baptiz●ri prob buer●nt , & hoc custodiendum posteris tradiderint , plenissimè vos respondistis ; neminem tam stultum esse , qui hoc credat apostolos trad●d●sse ▪ quando etiam ipsas b●reses constet execrabiles ac detestandas post●a extitisse . firmil . ep . cypr. . apostoli autem nihil quidem exinde praecepêrant sed consu●tudo illa quae opponebatur 〈◊〉 , ab corum traditione exordium sumpsisse credenda est : sicut sunt multa quae un●v●rsa tenet ecclesia , & ob hoc ab apostol●s praecepta benè creduntur , quanqu●m scripta non rep●riantur . aug. c. donat. l. c. . joh. . . joh. . . §. . §. . p. . n. . gen. . . §. . pag. . pag. . pag. . §. . p. . n. . matth. . . pag. . pag. . §. . pag. . §. . p. . n. . n. . p. . n. . eph. . . §. . p. . n. ● p. . §. . §. . phot. biblioth . cod. . pet. halliox in vit . just. mart. c●p . . in not . medulla patr. p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . justin. martyr . dialog c. tryph. p. , ed paris . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . id. p. . §. . paraenes . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . id. ib. apolog. . p. · 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . id. ib. p. ● , . p. , ● , &c. p. ● . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . apol. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . orat. . p. ● . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . id. ib. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . athenag . apol. p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . tatianus . p. . §. . c. valentin . cap. . iren. l. . c. . p. . ed. erasm. petav. not . in epiph. in hares . valent. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . iren. apud epiph. haeres . . sect . . l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . quibus si quis non assentit , spernit quidem participes domini , spernit autem & ipsum christum dominum , spernit verò & patrem , & est à seipso damnatus , resistens & repug●ans saluti suae , quod faciunt omnes haeretici . iren. l. . c. . §. . cum enim ex scripturis arguuntur in accusationem convertuntur ipsarum scriptu●arum , quasi non rectè habeant , neque si●t ex authoritate , & quia vari● si●t dicta , & quia no● possit ex hi● inveniri veritas ab his qui nesciant traditionem . iren. l. . c . et habemus annumerare eos , qui ab apostolis instituti sunt episcopi in eccles●is & successores eorum usque ad nos , qui nihil tale docuerunt , neque cognovêrunt , quale ab his deliratur . l. . c. . §. . hieron . ep . ad magnum . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . clem. alex. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . ed. paris . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . strom. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . strom. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . strom. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . p. , , &c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . id. ib. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . p. , &c ▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . id. ib. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . id. p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . strom. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ibid. §. . origines sacrae . l. . c. , , , . §. . p. . n. ● . p. . ali●s 〈◊〉 ita lego , ut quantālibet sanctitate , doctrin●que praepolleant , non ideò verum putem , qui ipsi ita sens●runt , sed quia mihi , vel per illos authores c●nonicos , vel probabili ratione , quod à vero non abhorreat , persuadere potuêrunt . august . ep . . lib. . c. . quum ●it perfectus scripturarum canon , sibique ad omnia satis superque sufficiat , &c. l. . c. . §. . sic quotidie apud illos qui foris sunt intrat christus per mulierem , in ecclesiam , & credunt per istam famam , &c. hen. à gand. sum . p. . a. . q. . plus verbis christi in scripturâ credit , quam ecclesiae testificanti : quia propter illam jam credit ecclesiae . et , si ipsa quidem contraria scripturae diceret , ipsi no● crederet . id. p. . §. . p. . p. . p. ▪ §. . p. . aug. c. faustum . l. . c. ▪ p. , . p. . non jam hominibus , sed ipso deo intrinsecus mentem nostram firmante & illuminante . aug. c. ep . manich. c. . §. . p. . p. . p. . ibid. §. . p. . §. . p. . n. . p. , &c. n. , , . §. . p. . sect . . n. . p. . n. . p. ● . sect . . p. , &c. n. . ad fin . cap. . notes for div a -e §. . §. . §. . §. . p. . sect . n. . n. . p. . c. . n. . p. . n. . n. . sect. . n. . p. . §. . p. . n. . §. . p. n. . p. n . p. . p. . n. . §. . hanc praedicationem cum acceperit , & hanc fidem quem idmodum praediximus ecclesia , & quidem in universum mundum disseminata , diligentèr custodit , quasi unam domum inhabitans , & similiter credit iis , videlicet quasi unam animam habens , & unum cor , & consonantèr haec praedicat & docet & tradit quasi unum possidens os . irenaeus advers . haeres . l. . c. . ecclesia enim per universum orhem usque ad fines terrae disseminata , & ab apostolis & à discipulis eorum accepit eam fidem , &c. l. . c. . statim igitur apostoli — . per judaeam contesta●â fide in jesum christum & ecclesiis institutis ; dehinc in orbem profecti , eandem doctrinam ejusdem fidei nationibus promulgavâ●unt , & proinde ecclesias apud unamquamq , civitatem condidêrunt , à quibus traducem fidei & semia● doctrine , ceterae exinde ecclesiae mutuatae sunt , & quotidie mutuantur ut ecclesiae fiant : ac per hoc & ipsae apostolicae deput●ntur , ut soboles apostolicarum ecclesiarum . omne genus ad origin●m suam recenseatur , nec●sse est . itaque tot ac tantae ecclesiae , una est illa ab apostolis prima , ex qua omnes . sic omnes primae & apostolicae , dum unà omnes probant unitatem ▪ dum est illis communica●io pacis , & appellatio fraternitatis , & contesseratio hospita●itatis . tertul. de prescript . haeretic . cap. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . theodoret . in psal. . . tom. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . theodoret. ecclesi . hist. l. . c. . perrons reply to king james l. . c . §. . v. rigalt . ad cypr. ep . . petav. ad epiphan . haeres . . p. . vales. ad ●useb . l. . c. , . albaspin . & balduin . in optat. cyprian . ep . . ed. rigalt . manente concordiae vinculo , & perseverante catholicae ecclesiae individuo sacramento , actū suum disponit ac dirigit unusquisque episcopus , rationem propositi sui domino redditurus . cyprian . ep . . c●m sit à christo una ecclesia per totum mundum in multa membra divisa : item episcopatus unus , episcoporum multorum concordi 〈◊〉 diffusus . id ib p. . itaque ex unitatis ecclesiasticae disciplinā , cyprianus solicitudinem omnium ecclesiarum ad se pertinere non ambigens , etiam romam se dedisse literas ait ad clerum . eas veròlite as per totum mundum missas , h. e. per ecclesiam catholicam , cujus ecclesiae unus est episcopatus : atque hujusmodi episcopatûs à singulis ep●scopis in solidum pa●s tenebatur . rigalt . observ . ad cypr. p . §. . quae autem causa veniendi & pseudo episcoporum contra episcopos factum nunciandi ? aut enim placet illis quod fecerunt , & in suo scelere perseverant : aut , si disp●icet & reced●at , sciunt quò revertantur . nam cùm statutum sic omnibus nobis , & aequum sit paritèr ac justum , ut uniuscujusque causa illic audiatur , ubi est crimen admissum , & singulis pastoribus portio gregis sit adscripta , quam regat unusquisque & gubernet , rationem sui actûs domino redditurus : oportet utique eos quibus praesumus non circumcu●sare , nec episcoporum concordiam cohaerentem suâ subdolâ & fallaci temeritate collidere , sed agere illis causam suam , ubi & accusatores habere & testes sui criminis possint : nis● si paucis desperatis & perditis minor videtur esse auctoritas episcoporum in africâ constitutorum , qui jam de illis judicavérunt , & eorum conscientiam multis delictorum laqueis vinctam judicii sui nuper gravitate damn●runt . cyprian ep . . p. . de unitate eccles. p. ▪ ut ad catholicae ecclesiae unitatem scissi corporis membra componere●t . cypr. ep . . §. . eusebius histor . ecclesiastic . lib. . cap. . hieronym . de scriptor . ecclesiast . to. . socrat. l. c. . sozom. l. . c. . socrat. l. c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . epiphanius . haeres . . sect . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . synes . epist. . p. . ed. petav. §. . p. . advocavit a● se episcopum loci , perconta●usque est , utrûranam cum episcopis catholicis , hoc est , cum roman● ecclesiâ conveniret . d. ambros. orat . in obit . fra●r . et forte & ad id locorum in schismate regionis illius ecclesia erat . lucifer enim se à nostrā tunc temporis communione diviserat , & quanquam pro fide exulâ ; sset , & fidei suae reliquisset haeredes , non putavit tamen fidem esse in schismate . id. ib. nec ob sardorum tantum mastrucam dei filium descendisse . hieronym . c. lucifer . init . mastruca vestis barbaricae genus , quam sardisu● linguâ nastrucam appellant : significans multos adhuc superesse bonos christianos , etiamsi nulli essent in sardinia , in quâ solâ ille christi ecclesiam esse volebat . erasmus in scholiis . sed tu scito , &c. romanam fidem apostolico ore laudatam , cujus se esse ▪ participem alexandrina ecclesia gloriatur . hieronym . ep . . ad theophil . sed tamen scito , nobis nihil esse antiquiu● quàm christi jura servare , nec patrum transire terminos , semperque meminisse romanam fidem apostolico ore laudatam , cujus se esse participem alexandrina ecclesia gloriatur . hieronym . theoph. tom . p. . ed ▪ chevall , . sic omnes fer● latini patres , pauli ad romanos verba accep●runt , quasi rectior & sincerior fuisset apud romanos fides : cum hoc tantum dicat apostolus ; agere se gratias deo , quod ubique passim fama fit , etiam romanos rerum dominos , fidem christianam suscepisse . quod certe ob dignitatem urbis , quae totius orbis erat ▪ 〈◊〉 & gentium 〈◊〉 valdè ad fidei christianae propagationem conducebat . rigaltius observat ad cyprian , epist. p. ●● . quia nulla virtutum videntes insignia , suscep●runt fidem christi , quamvis corrupto sensu . ambros. praefat . in ep . ad roman . quamvis non secundum regulam ab autoribus traditae veritatis , tamen quia quod ab uno deo erat , interposito nomine christi , caeperant venerari , gratulatur ; sciens illos posse proficere . id. ad v. ● . c. . non quod aliam habeant romani fidem , nisi hanc quam omnes christi ecclesiae ; sed quod devotio in eis major fit & simplicitas ad credendum . hieronym . praefat in l. . comment . in epist. ad galat. tom. . §. . concil . tom. ● . p. . sanctissimas enim dei ecclesias , i. e. superiores vestrae , & novellae istius romae unam esse accipio , illam sedem apostoli petri , & istius augustae civitatis unam esse definio . joh. patriarch . ep . inter ep . hormisd . . §. . numerate sacerdotes vel ab ipsâ sede petri & in ordine illo patrum quis cui successit videte . ipsa est p●tra quam non vincunt superbae inferorum portae . d. aug. in psalm . c. part . donat. tom. . col . . venite fratres , si vultis ut inseramini in vite : dolor est cum vos videmus praecisos it● jacere . tertul. de praescript . c. . iren. l. . c. . august . de baptism . c. donatist . l . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . advers . petilian . l. . c . de unitat. eccles. cap. . ecce roma , ecce carthago , ecce aliae & aliae civitates : ●iliae regum sunt , & delectaverunt regem suum in honore ipsius ; & ex omnibus fit una quaedam regin● . aug. in ps. . p. . ed. froben . propter unitatem ecclesiae , una ecclesia ; propter congregationes fraternas per lo●a , multae sunt ecclesiae . id. in psal. . an placet vo●is , ut contra ecclesias quae membra sunt unius ecclesi● tot o●be d●ffusae , &c. id. de unitat. eccles. c. . verum etiam illas ecclesias suas in scripturis apostolicis & canonicis pariter legimus non solum romanorum , verum etiam corinthiorum , galatarum , ephesiorum , &c. vt raceam de aliis tam latis atque universis terrarum partibus , in quas ex his apostolicis laboribus & plantationibus p●rrecta crevit & crescit ecclesia . id. c. crescon . grammat . lib. . c. . §. . ibid. ubi ergo erit proprietas catholici nominis , cuminde dicta sit catholica , quod sit rationabilis & ubique diffusa . optat. l. . cathedram episcopalem , primam missionem , omnem potestatem , à quâ caeterae deducerentur . albaspinaeus in optat. lib. . igitur negare non potes scire te in urbe rom● petro primo cathedram episcopalem esse collatam in quâ sederit o●nium apostolorum caput petrus ; inde & cephas appellatus est ; in quâ unâ cathedrâ , unitas ab omn●bus servaretur , nè caeteri apostoli singulas sibi quisque defenderent : ut jam schismaticus & peccator esset , qui contra singularem cathedram , alteram co●locaret . ergo cathedra unica quae est prima de dotibus , sedit prior petrus : cui successit linus , lino clemens , &c. damaso siricius hodie , qui noster est socius : cum quo totus orbis commercio formatarum , in unâ communionis societate concordat . vestrae cathedrae vos originem reddite , qui vobis vul●is sanctam ecclesiam vindicare . optatus l. . sed suspicor haec verba ( unde cephas apellatus est ) esse ineptae alicujus glossae ad marginem temerè ascriptae & deinde abs librariis contextui insertae . balduin in optat l. . vbi sedit victor garbiensis , à vestris jam dudum de africâ ad paucos erraticos missus , &c. optatus ibid. extra septem ecclesias quicquid soris est alienum est . id. ib. tibi unitas displicet ; hoc si crimen putas , argue nos thessalonicensibus , corinthiis , galatis , septem ecclesiis quae sunt in asia , communicâsse . ibid. percurre ec●lesias apostolicas apud qua● ipsae nunc cathedrae apostolorum suis locis praesidentur . tertul. praescript . ad haeret . cap. . euseb. hist. eccles. l. . c. . §. . ibid. ego nullum primum ( praemium for●asse rectius ) nisi christum sequens , beatitudini tuae , id est cathedrae petri communione consocior . super illam petram aedific●tam ecclesiam scio . quicunque extra hanc domum agnum comederit , profanus est — quicunque tecum non colligit , spargit ; hoc est , qui christi non est , antichristi est . hieron . ep . . ad damas. theodoret. l. . c. . tota secularium literarum schola nihil aliud hypostasin nisi 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 novit . id. ib. inde nunc mea animae postulans cibum , unde olim christi vestimenta suscepi . ib. ab arrianorum praesule & camp●nsibus , novellum à me homine romano nomen exigitur . ib. non super roman arbitror , nam fieri potest ut roma degen●ret , sed super illam fidem quam petrus professus est . erasmus in schol. et si non minus aliis cam laborâsse , erasmus hic mentiatur . mar. victor . schol. in ep . . vid. fortunat. & acacius . profligato à sobole malâ pa●rimonio , apud vos s●los incorrupta patrum servatur haer●di●as . — nunc in occide●te sol justitiae oritur : in oriente a●tem lucifer ille , qui ceciderat , super sydera posuit thronam s●um , &c. ibid. p. . n. . §. . p. . post ista adhuc insuper pseudoepiscop● sibi ab haereticis constituto , navigare audent ad petri cathedram , atque ad ecclesiam principalem ; unde unitas sacerdotalis exorta est , à schismaticis & prophanis literas ferre , nec cogitare eos esse romanos ( quorum fides apostolo praedicante laudata est ) ad quos perfidia habere non possit access●m . cyprian . ep . . ad cornel. n. . p. . sect. . n. , &c. p. . tertul. de prescript . c. . greg. l. . ind. . ep . . ibid. synes . ep . . ibid. stepha●us frater noster haereticorum causam contra christianos & contra dei ecclesiam asserere conatur . cypr. ad pompeium per erasm. basil. p. . p. . attamen scito romanam fidem apostolic● voce laudatam ejusmodi praestigias non recipere , etiamsi angelus aliter annun●iet , quam semel praedicatum est , pauli authoritate munitam non posse mutari . hierony . l. . apol. c. ruff. cap. . p. . thes. . . non tibi sufficit scandalum graeciae , nisi illud & latinorum auribus ingeras . id. ib. p. , . §. . petram opinor per agnominationem nihil aliud , quàm inconcussam & firmissimam discipuli fidem vocavit ; in quâ ecclesia christi ita fundata & firmata esset , ut non laberetur , & esset inexpugnabilis inserorum portis , in perpetuum manens . s. cyril . alex. dial. de trinit . l. . p. . paris . a. . p. , . p. . ruffin ▪ in symbol . p. , . p. . p. . §. . p. . sect . . n. ● . p. . n. . p. , n. . p. . n. . §. . p. . n. . p. . matth. . . §. . p. . n. . §. . p. . p. . sect . n. . p. . §. . §. . cùm infiniti abusus , schism●ta quoque & haereses , per totum nunc ch●istianum orbem invalescant ; ecclesiam dei legitimâ indigere reformatione , nemini non apertum erit . petrus de alliaco lib. de reform . eccles. p. . papa potest errare , errore judiciali ; de personali , omnibus notum est . jac. almain . de auctorit . eccles. cap. . quorum unus determinavit judicialiter , christum & apostolos nihil habuisse in communi nec in proprio ; alter , oppositum . id. ib. lyra in matth. . cusan . concord . l. . c. . alphons . c. haeres l c . carranz . controv. . canus loc com. l. c. ult . de haeres . l. . c. . p. . cassand . consult . act . . n. . §. . n. . ibid. p. . §. . p. . §. . p. . §. . p. . n. . p. . §. . p. . n. . ibid. ibid. p. . §. . p. . quae major superbia quam ut unus hamo toti congregatione judicium suum praeserat , tanquam ipse solus spiritum dei habeat , s. bern. serm. . de resurrect . ibid. p. . p. . ibid. p. , . §. . p. . n. . p. . §. . praesens sancta synodus ex quovis salvo-conductu per imperatorem , reges , & alios feculi principes , haereticis , vel de haeresi diffamatis , putantes eosdem sic à suis erroribus revocare , quocunque se vinculo ▪ obstrinxerint , concesso , nullum fidei catholicae vel jurisdictioni ecclesiasticae praejudicium generari , vel impedimentum praest●●i posse , seu debere declarat , quo minus dicto salvo-conductu non obstante , liceat judici competen●i & ecclesiastico , de hujusmodi personarum erroribus inquirere , & aliàs contra eos debitè procedere , eosdemque punire , quantum justitia suadebit , si suos errores revocare pertinacitêr recusaverint , etiamsi de salvo-conductu confifi ad locum venerint judicii aliás non venturi ; nec sic promittentem cum secerit quod in ipso est , ex aliquo remansisse obligat●m concil constant . sess . . p. . tom. . concil . p. . ed. binii . p. n. . §. . ibid. verba salvi-conductus sunt verba fidei 〈◊〉 ▪ & sapiunt naturam pacti : quare , si generalia sint , extenduntur quatenus verba p●tiuntur . omnes doctores uno ore asserunt , generalem promissionem securitatis veniendi ad judicem seu compare●di in judicio , etiam libertatem recedendi ab●undique complecti . pet. premus de securit . quaest . . p. , . §. . §. . p. . h●c sancta synodus constantiensis johannem hus , attento quòd ecclesia dei non habeat ultra quid gerere valeat , judicio seculari relinquere , & ipsum curiae seculari relinquendum sore decernit , concil . constant. sess . . p. . §. . fides haereticis data servanda non est , sicut nec tyrannis , piratis , & caeteris publicis praedonibus . simanca instit. cathol . tit . . sect . . jures igitur haretici quid●m gravissimo concilii constantiensis judicio , legitimâ flaminâ concremati sunt , quamvis promissa illis securitas faiss●t . instit. tit . . sect . . p. . si ty●annis , piratis , & caete●is praedonibus fides servanda non est , qui corpus occidunt ; longe m●nus haereticis pertinacibus , qui occidunt animas . id. ib. quamobrem fides illis data , etiam juramen●o firmata , contra publicum bonum , contra salutem animarum , contra jura divina & humana , nullo modo servanda . ib. scribit etiam salomonius in d. l. . exact . de orig . juris , & refert petrus laca . l. . epit . delict . c. . in fin . ita observatum fuisse contra haereticos vocatos in concilio constantiensi sub salvo-conductu , qui tamen contra datam fidem ne●ati fuerunt . non ergo salvo-conductui fidere d●buit . d. scipio . menochius . lib. concil . . n. . quod verò scribit placa d. c. . in fin . haereticis datam fidem servandam non esse , intelligo um data fides est ad detrimentum fidei catholicae . id concil . . n. . ita enim loquitur conradus brunus in tract . de haere● . c. . l . cum scribit , non licere pacisci cum haereticis , ut liberè possent in damnatâ eorum sectâ vivere . n. . quod si ob●ic●atur , concilium constantiense non observâsse sa●vos-conductos concessos ab imperatoribus & regibus ; facile erit respondere , non licuisse illis imperatoribus & regibus , concedere tutos reddere haereticos ; tum quia inferior non potest salv●m-conductum concedere damnato à majori , tum etiam quia im●eratorum & regum est haereticos expugnare , non autem securos & tutos reddere ; quemadmodum abund● tradit con. rad . brunus . l. . de haeret . c. . rectè à concilio salvi-conductus illi annullati fuerunt . n. , . nunquam patiaris ullâ te ratione ad ea quae promisisti praestanda teneri ; quia juramentum non debet esse vinculum iniquitatis . hosius cardinal . epistol . , , . §. . scilicet has artes nuper gens gnara nocendi exitio invexit , gallia , nata tuo . hesperiae suscis gens emissaria ab oris fucum affectatâ quae gravitate tegit , nata magistratum convell●re , nata ministris substrahere obsequium , praesulibusque suum : geryonae qua dum placeat , faveatque trifauci , terrarum reliquos non facit assis heros . et coelo facinus dignum putat , omnia saevi in regis longas tradere sceptra manus . quae disciplinam morum , quae gallica venit , exuto , legum solvere jura , metu , et vileis regnantum anima● , ipsosque necandos horrendâ reges proditione docet ; servandamque fidem negat , argutisque cavillis detorquet magni jussa severa dei. nos patimur segnes , lentique sedemus ad iram et pietas ipsâ religione perit ▪ protinus induciae violantur patre quiritum auctore , & martis nuncius urbe venit . nos juvat antiquo vitam producere ritu , nos juvat in priscâ simplicitate mori . jac. aug. thuanus eleg. in parricidas . vniversa theologorum schola tenet , & est certum ac de fide , quemcunque principem christianum , si à catholicâ romanâ religione manifestè deflexerit , & alios avocare voluerit , excidere statim omni potestate , & dignitate ex ipsá vi juris divini & humani : hocque & ante sententiam pontificis & judicis contra ipsum prolatam ; & subditos quoscunque liberos esse ab omni juramenti obligatione , quod de obedientiâ praestitissent , posseque & debere hujusmodi hominem tanquam apostatam & haereticum ex dominatu ejicere , nè alios insiciat . andreas philopator resp. ad edict . regin . angl. p. . n. . p. . §. . p. . p. . §. . p. . sect . . p. . n. . §. . p. . §. . p. n. . §. . p. . n. . p. . erasm. in mat. . . hodie videmus sacerdotes , nihil dicam qualibus sed certè nimium prolixis precibus , hisque praescriptis , aliquoties ineptis ac ridiculis , nè dicam impiis , oneratos . erasm. in mat. . . ad haec qui modestè pii sunt taciti secum ingemiscunt : qui populi malis aluntur , & quorum interest christi gregem , quem ille suo sanguine liberum reddidit , quam maximè servum esse & ebnoxium , adeò non reclamant ut modis omnibus exaggerent . accedunt iis qui vel ambiunt praemium aliquod obsequii vel timent poenam libertatis . ita dum nemo succurrit , re● p●●●atim eò prolabitur ut penè nihil jam pudeat . id. in mat. . . p. . §. . p. . n. . p. . p. . sect . . hos. . . p. . n. . hos. . . . hos. . . hos. . . king . . hos. . . king. . . v. . king. . , king. . , . king. . . ibid. p. : ibid. p. . §. . p. . n. . p. ▪ n. . p. . p. . §. . ibid. §. . §. . p. . n. . p. . n. . §. . p. . n. . p. . p. . n. . p. . n. . §. . p. . p. . ibid. ibid. p. . council . toles ▪ . can. . p. . §. . ibid. p. . the institution of a christian man. a. . in synodo lond●n . sess. . die veneris jan. an. . p. . n. . ibid. p. . a●t . §. . , . white and watson . §. . p. . p. . p. . n. . ibid. §. . chap. . p. , . p. . p. . ad p. . §. . p. . p. . n. . §. . p. . p. . arbitramur — adjuvante misericordiā domini nostri jesu christi — authoritati sanctitati● tuae de sanctarum scripturarum authoritate depromptae , facilius eos qui tam perversa & perniciosa sentiunt , esse cessur●s . aug. ep . . §. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . theodoret. hist. eccles. l. . c. . ed. sirmond . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . gelas. acta concil . nicen. lib. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . niceph. ecclesiast . hist. l . c . quanquam graci omnes asserant et tu●antur , nicaeni concilii canones viginti tantum ●uisse , &c. bin not . in concil . nicaen p . . . ruffin . ecclesiast . hist. lib. . cap. . viginti tantum capitula nicanae synodi in sanctâ romanâ ecclesiâ haberi . gratian ▪ distinct . . c. . deinde etiam . capitulis nicani concilii recitatis , communi decreto statuerunt capitula . ( sive . ) quae subsequuntur . vid. justell . not . in cod. eccles. african . p. . quod non nisi viginti capitula quae habemus in nicaeno concilio fuerunt constituta . c. . apud justell . ibid. codex can. eccles. afric ; p : . codex canon . p. . id. p . turrian . praef . in canon . arab. consultatio de controvers . inter paul. : & rempub. venet. apud goldast . monarch . tom. . p. . quoniam hac ignorâsse majores visi sunt , quando ●borta controversia in ecclesiâ african● , de iis mentio necessaria incubuisset ; haec libentius aliis disserenda relinquemus . baron . ad . an. . parag . . quamobrem quod in epistol● quâdam marci nomine . recenseantur . — quodque tur●ianus profiteatur . inventos arabicá linguá scriptos , latinitate se donâsse — quoniam haec omnia scripta quibus ingens ille numerus canonum stabilitur , prorsus incertae vel potius nullius sunt fidei ; nec aliquis unquam probatus antiquitatis auctor amplius quam . canones nicenae synodi agnovisse reperiatur , ceteros ab aliis assertos libentius rejicimus . spondan . epitom . baron . ad a. . n. . §. . p. . nicol. pap. ●p . ad michael . imperat ▪ zozom . l. . c. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 concil . nicen. can. . codex theodos. de episcop . l. . qui mos est causarum civilium , iidem in negotiis ecclesiasticis obtine●di sunt , ut , si qua sunt — ad religionis observantiam pertinentia , locis suis & à suae dioec●s●os synodis audiantur . §. . quarta igitur & vera expositio est , alexandrinum debere gubernare illas provincias , quia romanus episcopus ita consuevit , ●d est , quia romanus episcopus ante omnem co●ciliorum definitionem consuevit pe●mittere episc●po alexandrino regimea aegypti , libyae & pentapolis . bellarm. de rom. ont , l. . c ▪ . theodoret. l. . c . syncs . ep . ad theophil . alexand. cùm vera hujus instituti ratio in eo consistat , quòd cum mediolanum esset caput dioeces●os italicae , ut constat ex concilio aquileiensi , ordinatio metropolitae aquileie●sis ad episcopum mediolanensem optimo jure pertinebat ; primatis verò mediolanensis ordinatio ad aquileiensem episcopum , quòd primus esset inter metropolitanos synodi generalis dioeceseos italicae . petrus de marcâ de concord . sacerdot . & imp. l. . c. . sect . . ibid. sect . . §. . concil ephes. act . . part . ● . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . concil . ephes. can . in edit . verò binii ante canones habetur . tom. . concil . part. . act. . p. . insula autem britanniae gavisa est olim privilegio cyprio ut nullius patriarchae legibus subderetur . hoc autem privilegium et si abolitum olim fuit bellorum tumultibus & vi , tamen cum tempore henrici . totius regni consensu fuerit repetitum , & ab eo tempore pacificè praescriptum : videtur pacis ergô retineri debere , sine dispendio catholicism● , & absque schismatis ullius notâ ▪ barns catholico-romanus pacificus ms. sect . . quod ad patriarchas attinet , responderi potest , confirmationem illam non esse signum jurisdictionis , sed tantum susceptionis in communionem , & testimonium quo conslabat , summum pontificem consentire consecratio●● jam peractae . petrus de marcâ de concord . c. sacerdot . & imper. l . c . sect . . factus est autem cora●lius episcopus de dei & ch●isti ejus judicio , de cle●icorum pen● omnium testimonio , de plebis quae tan● affu●t suffragio , & de sacerdotum a●liquorum & bono●um ●irorum coll●gio — cum fabiani ●ocus vacaret , quo occupato de dei voluntare & omnium nostrûm consentione firmato . cyprian . ep . . p. . ed. rigalt . quippe usu receptum erat per illas tempestates , ut patriarchae , & ipse etiam romanus pontifex recens electus , literas de suâ ordinatione mitterent ; quibus addebatur prefessio fidei in synodicis eorum epistolis conscripta . petrus de marcâ . ib. ut per totum mundum una nobis sit unius communionis integr●tas , in quâ societatem tuae dilectionis amplectimur , & gestorum quae sumpsim●s serien● , necessariis munitam subscription●bus approbamus . leo . ep . . theodoret. l. . c. . §. . p. . de concord . l . c. . sect ▪ . au● nunquam omnino , aut certè vix , horum aliquis sine consensu romani pontificis reperitu● ejectus . nicol. . epist. . michael . imp. tom. . concil . p. . tom. . concis . p. . l. . c. . sect . . §. . in romana ecclesiâ semper apostolicae cathedrae viguit principatus . s. aug. epist. . p. . p. . p. . pergant ad fratres & collegas nostros transmarinarum ecclesiarum episcopos . s. aug. ep . an forte non debuit romanae ecclesiae melciades episcopus cum collegis transmarinis episcopis illud sibi usurpare judicium quod ab afris septuaginta , ubi primas tigisitanus praesedit , fuerit terminatum . quid quod nec ipse usurpaverit ? rogatus quippe imperator , judices misit episcopos , qui cum eo seder●nt , & de totâ illâ causâ , quod justum videretur , statuerent . s. aug. ib. ad cujus curam , de quâ rationem deo redditurus est , res illa maximè pertinebat . id. ib. aug. ep . . p. . p. . §. . euseb. l. . c. . p. . §. . valesius de schismate donatist . cap. . ait quidam , non debuit episcopus procons●lari judicio purgari : quasi verò ipse sibi hoc comparaverit , ac non imperator ita quaeri jusserit , ad cujus curam de quâ rationem deo redditurus esset , res illa maximè pertinebat . augustin . ep . . §. . p. . ●od . l. . tit. . l. . authent . collat. ti● . c. . p. . n. . concil . afric . can . epist. ad bonifac . item placuit ut presbyteri , diaconi , vel caeteri inferiores clerici , in causis quas habuerint , si de judiciis episcoporum suorum questi fuerint , vicini episcopi , eos cum consensu episcopi sui audiant , & inter eos definiant , adhibiti ab eis episcopi : quod si & ab iis provocandum putaverint , non provocent ad transmarina judicia ; sed ad primites suarum provinciarum , aut ad universale concilium ; sicut de episcopis saepe constitutum est . ad transmarina autem qui putaverit appellandum , à nullo intra africam ad communionem suscipiatur , codex canon . eccles african . can. . §. . de concord . sacerdot . & imp. l. . c. . sect . , , . §. . ut romam liceat episcopis provocare & ut clericorum causae apud suarum provinciarum episcopos finiant●r , jam priore anno etiam literis nostris ad eundem ven●rabilis memoriae zosimum episcopum datis , insinuari curavimu● , &c. ut ea servare sine ullâ ejus injuriâ paulisper sinerem●s , usque ad exquisitionem statutorum concilii niceni . praesato itaque debitae salutationis officio , impendio deprecamur , ut deinceps ad vestras aures hinc venientes non faciliùs admittatis , nec à nobis excommunicatis in communionem ultrà velitis excipere ; quia hoc etiam nicaeno concilio definitum facilè advertet venerabilitas tua . nam et si de inferioribus cleric●s vel de laicis videtur ibi praecaveri , quanto magis hoc de episcopis voluit observari , nè in suá provinciâ à communione suspensi à tuâ sanctitate praeproperè , vel indebitè videantur communioni restitui . presbyterorum quoque & sequentium clericorum improbaref●gia , sicut te dignum est , ●epellat sanctitas tua , quia & nullâ patrum definitione hoc ecclesiae derogatum est africanae , & decre●● nicena sive inferioris gradus ciericos sive ipsos episcopos suis metropolitanis apertissimè commisérunt . prudentissimè enim justissimeque vidêrunt , qu● cunque negotia in suis locis , ubi o●●a sunt , finicuda ; nec unicuique provinciae gratiam sancti spiritus defuturam : quae aequitas à christi sacerdotibus , & prudentèr videatur , & constantissimè teneatur : maximè quia unicuique concessum est , si jud●c●o offensus suerit cognitorum , ad concilia suae provinciae , vel etiam universale provocare . nisi forte quisquam est qui credat , unicuilib●t posse deum nostrum examinis inspirare justitiam ; & innumerabilibus co●gregatis in concili●● sacerdotibus denegare . aut quomodo ipsum transmarinum judicium ratum erit , ad quod testium necessariae personae vel propter sexus , vel pro●ter senectutis infirmitatem , vel multis aliis impedimentis adduci non poterunt ? nam ut aliqui tanquam à tu● sanctitatis latere mittantur , nullâ invenimus patrum synodo constitutum . quia illud quod pridem per eundem cocpiscopu● faustinum tanquam ex parte niceni concilii exinde transmisistis , in conci●iis verioribus qua accipiuntur ni●●ni , à s. cyrill● coepiscopo nostro alexandrinae ecclesiae , & à venerabili attico constantinopolitano antistite , ex authentico missis , quae etiam ante hoc per innocentium presbyterum & marcellum subdiaconum , per quos ad nos abiis directa sunt , venerabilis memoriae bonifacio episcop● dec●ssori vestro à nobis transmissa sunt , in quibus tale aliquid non potuimus invenire . executores etiam clericos vestros quibusque petentibus nolite mittere , nè ●umosum typhum seculi in ecclesiam christi quae lucem simplicitatis & humilitatis d●●m , deum videre cupientibus praefert , videamur inducere . nam de fratre nostro faustino ( amoto jam , pro suis nefandi● n●quit●is , de christi ecclesiâ dolendo apiario ) securi sumus , quod cum probitate ac moderatione tuae sanctitatis , salvâ fraternâ charitate ulterius africa minimè patiatur . concil . carthag . epist. ad caelestinum . §. . greg. l. . indict ▪ . ep . p. . p. . p. . ibid. n. . bed. l. . c. . bramhall just. vindication . c. . p. . spelman . concil . an. . §. . bed l. . c. ▪ p. . §. . p. . p. . leo. ep . . c. . greg. l. ep . §. . p. . n. ▪ p. . p. . p. . §. . p. . n. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . concil . sardic . c. . de concord . sacerd . & imp. l. . c. . sect . , , &c. l. . c. . sect . . §. . concord cathol . l. . c. aug ep . . contra cresc . l. . c. . l. . c. . p. ▪ §. p. . l. . ep . . p. . n. , ● §. . euseb. l. . cap. . not. in l. euseb. l. . c. cyprian . ep . cypr. ep . . nazian . orat. . p. . athanas. ap. ad imp. const. p. . tom . nazianz. orat. . p. . basil. ep . . tom. . p. . chrysost. tom. . p. . ed savil. hieron . ep . . ruffin . l. . c. , , . theodoret. l. . c. . hieron . ep . §. . not. in hist. august . p. amm. marcel . l. . l. . spartian . in severo . lamprid. in alex. sev. marcel . l. . justel . not. in cod. afric . can. . cod. eccles. uni can. . & ibi justel . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . nazianzen . . p. . tu quidem ut homo dei & apostolicâ ●rnatus gratiâ curam omnium ecclesiarum sustines . apud hieronym . ad pammach . to. . ep . . c. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . basil. ep . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . theodoret . haeret . fabul . l. . c. . p. . to. ● . oper . §. . p. . concil . chalced. act. . part . p. . bin. not . in chalced. con. tom. . concil . p. . et harum rerum ignari andabatae nostri , non advertunt , cum occidentales patres , pontifices romanos vocant , universalis ecclesiae episcopos , id more suarum ecclesiarum facere , & eâ notione , non quod putent totius orbis universalis , universales esse episcopos , sed eâdem quâ constantinopolitanus , alexandrinus , antiochenus , hierosolymitanus , dicuntur universales : aut ut universales ecclesiarum quae sunt sub eorum patriarchatu : aut quod in conciliis oecumenicis toti ecclesiae praesint . vigorius comment . ad resp. synodal . concil . basil. p. . greg. l. . ep . . ind. . §. . itaque illa demum eis videntur edicta & concilia quae in rem suam faciunt , reliqua non pluris aestimanda , quam conventum muliercularum in textrinâ vel thermis . lud. vives in aug. de civit. dei i. . cap. . bin. not . in chalced. con● p. . p. . n. . §. . p. . n. . n. . greg. ep . l. . ep . . greg. l. . ep . ibid. greg. ep . l. . ep . . pelag. . ep . . apud bin. to. ▪ concil . evagr. hist. l. . c. . §. . ibid. l. . ep . . triste mihi aliquid sere●issimus dominus innuit , quòd non eum corripuit qui superbit , sed me magis ab intentione med declinare studuit . greg. l. . ep . . greg. l. . ep . de quâ re mihi in suis jussionibus pietas praecepit dicens , ut pro appellatione frivoli nominis inter nos scandalum generari non debeat . greg. ibid. sed rogo ut imperiatis pietas penset , quia alia sunt frivola valdè innoxia , alia valdè nociva . ibid. nunquid ego hâc in re pessime domine propriam causam desendo ? nunquid specialem injuriam vindico ? id. l. . ep . . p. . n. . §. . tu quid christo universalis sc. ecclesiae capiti , in extremi judicii examine dicturus es , qui cuncta ejus membra tibimet conaris universalis appellatione supponere . greg. l. . ep . . ad culmen conatus est singularitatis cr●mpere , ut & nulli subesse , & solus omnibus praeesse videretur . id. ib. quid enim fratres tui omnes universalis ecclesiae episcopi , nisi astra coeli sunt ? ib. certè petrus apostolus primum membrum sanctae & universalis ecclesiae est . paulus , andreas , johannes , quid aliud quam singularium sunt plebum capita ? et tamen sub uno capite omnes sunt membra ecclesiae . ibid. vestra autem sanctitas agnoscat , quantum apud se tumeat , quae illo nomine vocari appetit , quo vocari nullus praesumpsit , qui veraciter sanctus fuit . ibid. §. . bellarm. de pontif. l. . cap. . hist. concil . trid. l . p. greg. l. . ep . . l. . ep . . consentive in hoc scelesto vocabulò , est fidem perdere . greg. l. . ep . . absit à cordibus christianorum nomen istud blasphemiae , in quo omnium sacerdotum honor adimitur dum ab uno sibi dementèr arrogatur . l. . ep . . greg. l. : ep . , , , . l. . ep . . . §. . p. . p. . §. . p. . n. . p. . n. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. euseb. l. . c. , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . euseb. ibid. vales. not . in euseb. l. . c. , euseb. ibid. socrat. l. . c. ● africani antistites vigilium romanum episcopam damnatorem trium capitulorum synodalitèr à catholic● communione , reservat● ei poenitentiae loco , recludunt . victor tununens . chronic. p. . §. . p. . ad hanc ecclesiam propter potentiorem principalitatem , necesse est omnem convenire ecclesiam , i. e. eo● qui sunt undique fideles : in quâ semper ab ●is qui sunt undique , conservata est ea quae est ab apostolis traditio . iren. l. . c. . de finib . l. . v. hen ▪ steph. lexicon ciceron . p. . herod . hist. l. . p. . concil . antioch . can. . leo sermon . de s. petro & paulo . p. . §. . p. · §. . p. . apud alexandriam ut in urbe romā , vetusta consuetudo servetur , ut ille aegypti ut hic suburbicariarum ecclesiarum solicitudinem gerat . ruffin . eccles. hist. l. . c ▪ . p. . n. . cod. theodos . l. . tit . . c . tit . . c. . tit . . adventor . p. . de eccles. suburbic . c. . de primatu ecclesiae romana & aliarum civitatum episcopis . antiqui moris est , ut episcopus urbis romae habeat principatum ; ut suburbicaria loca , & omnem provinciam suam sollicitudine gubernet . codex vaticanus apud sirmond . de region . & eccles. suburb . de concordi● sacerdot . & imp. l. . c. . sect . . §. . p. . n. . p. . n. . vigorius com. in ep . synod . concil . basil. c. . p. . p. . epiph. haeres . . p. . haeres . . p. . §. . p. . n. . p. . reynolds against hart. c. . div . . hieronym . l. . jovin . c. . §. . §. . p. . bell de pontif. l. . c. . p. , §. . p. . comment . in ep . synod concil . basil. c. . sect . . tabulae suffr . ●ab . . p. . tabul . suffrag . p. . §. . p. . p. . vigor . p. . john. . . gal. . acts . . mark . . acts . . §. . p. . ibid. p. . philopator . sect . . p. . de visib . monarch . l. , c. . nebrissens . de bello navarr . l. . c. . §. . p. . n. . p. . n. . n. . n. . §. . p. . n. . p. . sam. . . §. . p. . n. . p. . p. . §. . p. . §. . eph. . §. . p. . p. . baron annal. a.d. . s. . bin. concil . t● . . p. . baron . an. . sect . . . concil . antioch . can . , . aug. epist. . optat. l. , §. . p. . p. . gerson de auferibilitate papae consider . spalat . de rep. eccles. tom. . l. . c. . sect . . §. . p. . concil . rom. . sub symmacho . to. . p. . §. . p. . optat. l. . p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . p. , . p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . hist. council of trent . l. . p. . p. . p. . §. . p. . causanus de concord . cath. l. . c. . §. . p. , . §. . p. . caesar aquilinus de tribus historicis concilii trident. p. , . §. . ibid. §. . ibid. baron . a. d. . sect . . photius in biblioth . cod. . p. . phot. de . synod . &c. p. euseb. de vit ● const. l. . c. . theod. hist. eccles . l. . c. . sozom. l. . c. . nicephor . l. . c. . §. . p. . theodoret. eccles . hist. l. . , c. . . socrat. l. . cap. . sozomen . l. . c. . baron . ann. . sect . . annal. ann. . sect . . a. d. . sect . , &c. tom. . concil . p. . bellarm. de concil . l. . c . perrons r●ply . l. . cap. . bin. tom. . concil . p. . theod. hist. eccles . l. . c. . a d. . sect . . ann. . sect . . tom. . concil . p. . §. . p. . ann. . sect . , . §. . ibid. review of the council of trent . l. . c. . §. . p. . de concil . l. . c. . greg. ep . l. . c. . de repub. eccles. tom. . l. . c. . sect . . tom. . l. . c. . n. . protestatio adversus concil . trident. p. . a.d. . ibid. §. . ibid. p. . §. . p. . ibid. recogniti . p. . tom. . concil . p. . hist. council of trent . l. . p. . §. . ibid. n. . p. . n. . p. . p. . hist. l. . c. . §. . p. . p. . p. . p. . tom. . conc. p. . ibid. p. . ibid. n. . hist. council of trent . l. . p. . §. . p. . thuan. hist : l. . ad a. . thom. à jesu de convers. omn. gent. l. . c. . p. . hottinger . archaiolog . orie●t . cap. . p. . apud chytrae . de statu eccl. orient . p. . primum patriar . resp. p. . . epist. remons● . p. . notes for div a -e §. . §. . p. . p. . p. . §. . §. . de concil . l. . ● . . §. . p. sect . . p. . hierarch . eccles . l. . . c. . §. ▪ p. . ibid. p. . p. . p. . §. . hierarch . eccles . l. . c. . §. . canus loc . theol. l. . c. ▪ bellarm. de concil . l. . c. . aeneas sylv. de gest concil . basil. l. . de concil . l. . c. . §. . p. . p. , . §. . p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . p. . quis autem nesciat sanctam scripturam canonicam , tam veteris quam novi testamenti certis suis terminis contineri , eamque omnibus posterioribus episcoporum literis ita praeponi , ut de illâ omni o dubitari & disceptari non possit , utrum verum , vel utrum rectum sit , quicquid in eá scriptum esse constiterit ? episcoporum autem literas quae post confirmatum canonem vel scriptae sunt vel scribuntur , & per sermonem forte sapientiorem , cujustibet in eâ re peritioris , & per aliorum episcoporum graviorem autoritatem , doctiorumque prudentiam , & per concilia licere reprehendi , si quid in eis forte à veritate deviatum est . et ipsa concilia quae p●r singulas regiones vel provincias fiunt , plenariorum conciliorum autoritati , quae fiunt ex universo o be christiano , sine ull●s ambag●bus cedere , ipsaque plenaria saepe priora posterioribus emendari , cum aliquo experimento verum aperitur quod clausum erat , & cognos●itur q●od latebat , sine ullo typho sacrilegae superbi● , sine ullâ inflatâ cervice arrog●n●iae , sine ullâ contentione livid● invidi● , cum sanctá humilitate , cum pace catholic● , cum cha●itate christianâ . august . l. . de b●pt . c. donatist . c. . p. . aug. ep . . ad hierony●um c. crescon . grammat l. . c. . de nat. & gratiâ c. . c. faustum l. . c. . epistol . . §. . p. . p. . p. . p. . c. faustum ▪ l. . c. . ibid. p. . §. . p. . p. . ib●d . §. . p. . p. . §. . ibid. canus l. . c. . §. . p. . p. . §. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . §. . §. . §. . p. , &c. p. , &c. §. . p. . §. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . aug. de agone chr●stiano . cap. . de pontif. l. . c. . aug in psal. . in johan . tr . serm. . de divers . retract . l. . c. . §. . p. . p. . p. . ibid. §. . p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . p. , . p. . §. . p. . p. . occham dialog . p. . l. . cap. , , . cameracensis quaest . vesp. art . . ad liter . o. & p. cusan . concord . cathol . l. . c. . antonin . summ. summarum . p. . tit. . c. . sect . . panormitan . decret . p. . l. . tit : de elect . cap. significasti . clemangis disput . de concil . gener. mirandula . de fide & ordine credend . theorem . . &c. bellarmin . de concil . l. . c. . de concil . l. . c. . c. . §. . l . de concil . c. . p. . de pontif. rom l. . c. . ibid. de rom pont. l. . c. . de concil . l. . c. . ibid c. . journal of mr de saint amour . part . chap. p . journal . part . ch . p p. . ibid. §. . p. . p. . ibid. p. . ambros. l. . ep . . p. . action . . synod . . canus . l. . cap. ult . p. . ibid. ibid. conci● chalced. part . . act. . p. ● . concil . ephes. p. . act. . pag. . p. . §. . p. . p. . p. . §. ● . ibid ; de concil . l. . c. . §. . p. . alexand. alensis . part . quaest . . memb . . art . . sect . . reo . sine praejudicio , &c. bonaventur . l. . dist . art . . quaest . . ad fin §. . p. . §. . p. , &c. p. . p. . §. . p. . de concil . l. . c. . §. . p. . p. . scotus in . sent . dist . . q . gabr. biel in canon . missae . lect . . fisher contr . captivit . babyl . c. . p. . cajetan . in . qu. . a. . petrus de alliaco in . sent q . tonstall de verit . corp . christi . &c. p. . erasmus in cor. . ferus in matth. . apud episcop . elicus . resp . ad apol. cardinal . bollarm cap. p. . suarez in . disp . . sect . . barns catholico romanus pacificus m s. s. . liter . c. p. . pa●t ch . . sect . . §. . serm de coen● domini . de amiss . grat . l . c. . james of the fathers . p. . albertinus de eucharist . sacramento l. . p. . sed in cogitation bus huj●smodi , caro & sanguis no● prodest quidquam ; quia sicut ipse m●gister exposuit , verba haec spiritus & vita sunt : nec carnalis sensus ad intellectum ●antae profunditatis p●netrat , nisi fides accedat . auctor de coenâ domini . sect . . esus igitur carnis hujus q●aedam aviditas est , & quoddam desiderium manendi in ipso per quod sic imprimimus , & eliquamus in nobis dulcedinem charitatis , ut haereat palato & visceribus sapor dilectionis infusus , penetrans & imbuens omnes animae corporisque recessus . id. sect . . vt sciremus quod mansio nostra in ipso sit manducatio , & potus quasi quaedam incorporatio , subjectis obsequiis , voluntatibus junctis , affectibus unitis . id. ib. et non tam corporali quam spirituali transitione christo nos uniri . sect . haec quoties agimus , non dentes ad mordendum acuimus , sed fide sincerâ panem sanctum frangimus & partimur . id. sect . . sed immortalitatis alimonia , datur , à communibus cibis differens , corporalis substantiae retinens speciem , sed virtutis divinae invisibili efficientiâ probans adesse praesentiam . id. f. . id. sect . . cod. theod. de eursu publ . & leg . . arcad l. ult . de munerib . & honor . cassiod . l. . vegetius de remilit . l. . c. . ambros. serm . . de die sancto epiphan . augustin . in psalm . origen . hom . . in num. ambros de sacram . l c. . §. . panis iste communis in carnem & sanguinem m●●atus pro●●rat vitam & increment●m corpo●●bus ; ideoque ex consueto rerum effectu , fidei nostrae adjuta infirmitas , sensibili argumento edocta ●st , visibilibus sacramentis inesse vitae aeternae effectum , & non tam corporali quam spirituali transitione christo nos ua●ri . id. sect . . panis iste quem dominus discipulis porrigebat , non effigie , sed naturâ mutatus , omnipotentiâ verbi factus est caro . id. sect . . et sicut in personâ christi humanitas videbatur , & latebat divinitas ; ita sacramento visibili , ineffabilitèr divina se infudit essentia . ib. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . theodoret. dialog . . tom. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . id. dialog . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ap●d photium in biblioth . cod. . p. . certè sacramenta quae sumimus , corporis & sanguinis christi , divina res est , propter quod , & per eadem divinae efficimur consortes naturae & tamen esse non desinit substantia vel natura pani● & vini . gelas. tract advers . eutych . & nestor . §. . not. in greg. nyss. p. . i● casaub. not. 〈◊〉 greg. ep●st . ad eustath , &c. p . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . gregor . nyssen . orat . catachet . cap. . tom . de vit● mosi● ▪ hom. . in cant. orat. catech. c. . c. . epist. canon . §. . cyril . catech. mystagog . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . id. ib. catech. myst. . theophil . in mirc . . 〈…〉 comment . in psal. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . cyril . mystag . . p. . c●tech . illum . . §. . ambros. de●is q●i i●itian●ur . c. . ch●y●ost in act. hom . . de sacrament . l. . c. . vasquez . disp . c. n. . §. . p. . p. . licèt christus post coenam instituerit , & suis discipulis administraverit sub utráque specie panis & vini , hoc venerabile sacramentum ; tamen , hoc non obstante , non confici debet post coenam , nec ●ecipi nisi à jejunis ; similiter , quod licèt in primit●v● eccl●siâ sacramenta reciperentur sub utraque specie à fidelibus , tamen haec consuetudo , ut laicis sub specie panis tantum suscipiatur , habenda est pro lege , quam non licet repro●are : & asserere hanc esse illicitam , est erroneum , & p●rtinaci●è● ass●rentes sunt arcendi tanquam haereti●i . concil . constant. sess. . carranz sum. con. p. . concil . tom. . p. p. . §. . p. . §. . cor. . . ver. . de eucharist . l. . c. . luk. . . vasquez . in . thom. c. . dispat . ● . suarez in . tom. disp . . sect . . estius in l. . sentent dist . . sect . . § . cor. . . p. ● . quanquam sciam episcopos plurimos , evangelicae veritatis ac dominicae traditionis tenere rationem , nec ab eo quod christus magister & praecepit & gessit , bumanâ & novellâ institutione dec●dere ; tamen quoniam quidam vel ignorant●r vel simpliciter in calice dominico sanctificando , & plebi ministrando , non hoc faciant quod jesus christus , dominus & deus noster , sacrificii hujus auctor & doctor , fecit & docuit ; religiosum pariter ac necessarium duxi , has ad vos literas facere , ut si quis in ist● errore adhuc teneatur , veritatis luce perspectâ ad radicem atque originem traditionis dominicae revertatur . cyprian . epist. . de euchar. l. . c. . comperimus quod quidam , sump●â tantummodo corporis sacri portione , à cal●ce sacri cruoris abstineant . qui proculdubio ( quoniam nescio-quâ superstitione docentur obstring● ) aut sacramenta integra percipia●● , aut ab integris arceantur ; quia divisio unius & ejusdem mysterii sine grandi sacrilegio non potest provenire . apud gratian c. comper . de consecr . dist . . cusan . ep . . §. . p. . cassander de comm●n . sub utrâ● p , . . op . paris . barns catholico-rom . pacif. sect . . lit . . rua●d . tapp●r . tom. . p . alphons . à castro . haeres . . lindan . panopl . l. . c. . aquinas . p. . qu ▪ art. . aquinas . c. gentes . l. . cap. . bonavent . l . dist . . art. . q. . alensis . p. q. . memb . . art. . p. picherel . de missâ ▪ c. . alens . p. . q . memb . . alens , p. . q. . memb . . quum ad tegend●m infidelitatem suam nostris audeant interesse mysteriu , tam sacramentorum communione se temperant , ut interdum tutius lateant , ore indigno christi corpus accipiunt , sanguinem autem redemp●ionis nostrae haurire omnino declinant quod ideo vestram volumus scire sanctitatem , ut vobis hujusmodi homines & hisce manifeslentur indiciis , & quo●um deprehensa fuerit sacrilega simulatio , notati & prod●ti à sanctorum soc●etate , sacerdotum autoritate pellantur . leo. sermon . quadrages . . sozom. hist. l. . c. . niceph. l. . c. . baron . an. . n. . albaspinae . observat . l. c. justin. martyr . apol. . euseb. hist. l. . c. . hieron . ep . . nazianz. or. . albaspinae . obs . cap. . l. . durant . de r●tib . eccles. l. ● c. . §. . p. . p. . de missâ . l. ● . c. . sixtus sen. bibl . annot. . l. . basil. ep . . theodoret. dialog . . §. . eckius in enchirid . cap. . salmeron ●n tim. disp . s. peres . de tradit . p. . bellarm. de sanctor . beatit . l. . c. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . apud euseb. hist. eccles. l. . c. . ed. vales. answer to the jesuits chall . p ; . §. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 leg . usser . ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . orig. c. celsum l. . p. . ed. cantab. l. . p. . l . p. . p. . p. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . orig. l. . p. . id. ibid. id. p. . id. p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . orig. l. . p. . arnob. l. . §. . bellarm. de sanct. beatitud . l. . c. . de sanct. beat . l. . c. . bell. de san●● . beat . l. . c. . post tacitum exactum , consummatosque labores pennam lipsiades hanc tibi , diva , dicat . nil potuit penn● levius tibi diva dicare , ni f●●erit levius quod tibi scribit opus . §. . athanas. orat : . cont. arrian . greg. nyssen . orat. . cont. eunom . novatian . de trin. c. . aug. de civit. dei. l. . c. . p. . cyprian . ep . . p. . rigalt . obs . ad cyprian . p. . tertull. c. marcion . l. . p. . l. . p. . p. . ed. rigalt . cypr. ep . . tertull. de coron . m●lit . c. . §. . s. augustin enchirid. c. . de quantitate animae . c. . de ve●á relig. c. . de civit. dei. l. . c. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . epist. . quaest . . epist. . confess . l. . c. . colimus ergo martyres eo cultu dilectionis & societatis , quo & in hâc vitâ coluntur sancti homines dei. cont. faustum . l. c. . tract . . in johan . de verbis ap. serm . . ( not ) . de civit. dei. l. . c. ▪ sp●lat . oste● . err . suarez . c. . sect . . wicel . via regia . de i●vocat . sanct. §. . pag. . p. . de sanct. beatitud . l. c. . exod. . . exod. . . . levit . , . aug. in exod. quaest . . chrysost. hom . . in gen. hom . . in matth. §. . p. . p. . concil . t●●●nt . sess . ult . catech. rom. p. p. . ibid. cor. . . §. . p. . p. . §. . optal . l. . orig c. cels. l. . arnob. l. . lact. l. . c. . aug. in ps. . c. . euseb. h●st l. . c. . epiph. ep ad job . hieros . concil . eliber . can . . aug. de morib . eccles. cath. c . clem. alex. protrept . tertull. ad hermog . 〈◊〉 . p. . tertul. apolog. c. . minut. fel. p. . 〈…〉 §. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . §. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . §. . p. . p. . 〈…〉 taylors dissuasive from popery . chap. . §. . p. . p. . medina de confess . tr . . qu. . maldon . de sacram. t. . c. . ● staado in lege christi praecise pronunciar● sit , ex plurimo●um ca●holicorum se●te 〈…〉 coram deo , — qui m●nisestis iniis probat se ve●am b●be●e fidem & chari●●m ; e●si nè verb●m propale● de ● mero , ● gravitate p●ccator●m s●●rum . ba●s ●ct . de paenit . confess . & satisfactione . §. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . p. . p. . p. . §. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . ibid. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . rev. . . §. . p. . p. . p. , joh. . . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . p. . §. . p. . bishop cosens scholastical history of the canon of scripture . p. . p. . p. . p. : p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . §. . §. . §. . tertui . de virg . veland . cap. . §. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. , &c. p. . p. , &c. p. . p. . §. . p. . p. . §. . p. . cypr. ep . . p. . part . ch . . sect . , . §. . p. , &c. p. . p. . p. ▪ p. , &c. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . de repub eccles . l c . sect . . p. . p. . §. . §. . apolog. graecorum de igne purgat . p. . ed. salmas . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . alphons . à castro . l. . tit . purgat . §. . picherellus de missâ c. . p. . punitio ergo in purgatorio est res in opinione humanâ posita : quae nec ex scripturis nec patribus , nec conciliis deduci potest firmiter : immo , ( salvo meliori judicio ) opposita sententia eis conformior videtur . barns catholico . rom. pacif. sect . . l. d. ad fin . paralip . §. . aug. de fide & oper . c. , . aug. de fide & oper . c. . enchirid. c. . §. . p. . answer to the jesuits challenge p. . p. . p. . p . §. . p. ▪ p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . p. . answ. p. . answer to the jesuit . p. . §. . p. . de confirm . l. . c. . dionys. areop . de eccles. hier. cap. . de coron . milit . c. . de monog . c. . c. marc. l. . c. . de anim● c. . iren. l. cap. . de an. c. . §. . rigalt . observ . ad cypr. p. . albaspin . observ . l. . c. . hieron . ep . fab. ad ocean . §. . p. . de purgat . l. c. . biblioth . l. ● . annot. . sixtus sen. biblioth . l. . annot. . comment . in isa. . ad sin . cont. pelag. l. . §. . p. . comment . in isa. . sixtus sen. l. . annot. . estius in cor. . nazian . orat . . orat. . in psal. . p. . biblioth . cod. . §. . p. . p. . five catholick letters concerning the means of knowing with absolute certainty what faith now held was taught by jesus christ written by j. sergeant upon occasion of a conference between dr. stillingfleet and mr. peter gooden. sergeant, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) five catholick letters concerning the means of knowing with absolute certainty what faith now held was taught by jesus christ written by j. sergeant upon occasion of a conference between dr. stillingfleet and mr. peter gooden. sergeant, john, - . stillingfleet, edward, - . gooden, peter, d. . , [ ], , , [ ], , [ ], p. printed and sold by mat. turner, london : . title page lacking. facsimile t.p. used as chief source of information. pts. each part has also separate t.p. pt. . a letter to the d. of p. in answer to the arguing part of his first letter to mr. g. london : printed by henry hills, --pt. . the second catholick letter ... london : printed and sold by matthew turner, --pt. . the third catholick letter ... / by s.j. london : printed and sold by matthew turner, --pt. . the fourth catholick letter ... / by john sergeant. london : printed and sold by matthew turner, --pt. . the fifth catholick letter ... / by john sergeant. london : printed and sold by matthew turner. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -- apologetic works. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a letter to the d. of p. in answer to the arguing part of his first letter to mr. g. published with allowance . london , printed by henry hills , printer to the king 's most excellent majesty , for his houshold and chappel . . a letter to the d. of p. in answer to the arguing part of his first letter . . that you may not take it unkindly the arguing part of your letter to mr. g. should pass unregarded , i have been prevail'd upon to accept of his commission to hold his cards , while he is not in circumstances to play out his game himself . but can assure you beforehand , since matter of fact is clearing by other hands more proper , i mean to confine my self to matter of right ; and so shall give you the least and most excusable trouble that can be , a short one . . your letter tells us , that the conference was for the sake of a gentleman , who i heard desir'd to be satisfi'd that protestants are absolutely certain of what they believe , and made account you could satisfie him , and profess'd , if you could not , he would quit your communion . and you take care to inform us ( p. . ) that he was satisfi'd , and declar'd immediately after the conference , that he was much more confirm'd in the communion of your church by it , and resolv'd to continue in it . but could you not have afforded to inform us likewise by what he was satisfi'd ? for there is many a man who would be as glad , and is as much concern'd to be satisfi'd in that point as that gentleman ; and he would not have been a jot the less confirm'd or the less resolv'd , if his neighbor had been confirm'd and resolv'd with him . i cannot for my life imagin why you should make a secret of a thing , which , besides your own and your churches honor , concerns the salvation of thousands and thousands to know . . your letter i perceive would shift it off to mr. g. whom you desire ( p. . ) to prove that protestants have no absolute certainty , &c. of this proposal there will be occasion to say more by and by . at the present i pray you consider how you deal with those souls who rely on you . if you should move them to trust their estates with a man of your naming , of whom you would give no other satisfaction that he were able to manage them , and faithful , and responsible , but only to bid those who doubted , prove the contrary ; i fancy there would need all the credit you have to hinder the motion from appearing very strange : and yet you have the confidence to make them one as much stranger as their souls are more worth than their mony : for you would have them hazard their souls where they are not safe , for any care you take to satisfie them that they are . why , suppose mr. g. could not prove that protestants are not certain , are they therefore certain ? has peter twenty pounds in his purse , because paul cannot prove he has not ? or , ever the more title to an estate , because an adversary may have the ill luck to be non-suited ? must not every body speak for himself one day , and bring in his own account , which will pass or not pass as it is or is not faulty in it self , whether any fault have been found in it before or no ? and will not the happiness or misery of their souls for ever depend on that account ? can you suffer them to run that terrible hazard , without making them able to justifie their accounts themselves , and furnishing them with assurance that they can , and with no more to say but that they hop'd dr. st. would make his party good with mr. g. ? that things so precious to god as souls should be of no more value with those who set up for ministers of the gospel ! that their great and only care , as far as i see , should be to make a shew , and pass for some body here , let every one take his chance hereafter ! besides , truth is therefore truth , because 't is built on intrinsecal grounds which prove it to be such ; and not on private mens abilities , or their saying this or that ; wherefore till those grounds be produc'd , it cannot be with reason held truth : and dr. st. is more particularly oblig'd to make good he has such grounds , having had such ill fortune formerly with the principles to which he undertook to reduce protestant faith , as appears by the account given of them in error non-plust . . but , leaving these matters to be answer'd where we must all answer why we have believ'd so and so ; pray let us have fair play in the mean time . let every one bear his own burthen , and you not think to discharge your self by throwing your load on another man's shoulders . you affirm there is absolute certainty on the protestants side and 't is for him to prove it who affirms it . if you do it but half so well as mr. g. can , and has , the infallibility which he asserts , you will earn thanks from one side , and admiration from the other . but it is for you to do it : to trick off proving the contrary upon your adversary , is to own that proving is a thing which agrees not with your constitution , and in which your heart misgives you . . yet even so you were uneasie still , and would not venture what mr. g. could do , as slightly as you think , or would have others think of him . you know well enough , that to prove protestants have no absolute certainty of their faith , is no hard task even for a weak man : you know any man may find it confess'd to his hand by protestants . and therefore you had reason to bethink your self of an expedient to trick it off again from that point , and put mr. g. to prove , that protestants have no absolute certainty as to the rule of their faith , viz. the scripture . the merits of this cause too i think will return hereafter more fitly ; in this place i mind only the art. pray , was not the very first question at the conference , whether protestants are absolutely certain that they hold now the same tenets in faith , and all that our saviour taught to his apostles ? and your answer that they are ? did our saviour teach , and do protestants believe no more , than that the book so call'd is scripture ? is certainty of this more , and certainty of this book all one ? and was not the question plainly of the certainty of this , and of all this more ? here is then an enquiry after one thing plainly turn'd off to another . yes ; but this was one of the two things which the whole conference depended upon . as if the whole conference did not depend on that thing which was to be made manifest by the conference , viz. the absolute certainty of protestant faith. mr. g. indeed did himself ask some questions about your certainty of your rule ; questions , whose course it was wisely done to cut off , before they had question'd away your certainty of faith. for , after they had caus'd it to be admitted , that the certainty of scripture is from tradition , there was no refusing to admit that tradition causes certainty , and makes faith as certain as scripture . and then it would have prov'd something difficult to satisfie even a willing man , that the faith is certain which is opposit to a faith come down by tradition . but it was seen whereto it would come , and thought fit to break off in time , and not let the conference proceed too far . in the mean time absolute certainty of scripture was not the point of the conference , nor is it the point of concern . besides that 't is agreed on all hands , men are sav'd by believing and practising what christ taught , not barely by believing scripture is scripture : and salvation is the thing that imports us in these disputes , and 't were well that nothing else were minded by disputers . but it imported you it seems both to shift off proving from your self , and to stifle any further talk of the certainty of protestant faith , and keep us from looking that way by fixing our eyes on another object . and this is all you do ; but with so much art , that i verily think many a reader is persuaded you are talking all the while to the purpose . the truth is , you have reason to carry it as you do ; for it is good to avoid undertaking what cannot be perform'd : and you cannot , and i believe know you cannot make out , that protestants are absolutely certain , that they now hold all the same doctrin that was taught by christ and his apostles , as you affirm'd in your answer to mr. g's first question . and this i thought it imported to tell you plainly and publickly , that it might be in your hands to pin the controversie-basket , and bring all catholics to your church ; where i will answer you will be sure to find us , if you make us sure we shall find this certainty there when we come . . in the mean time why has not mr. g. done already as much as should be done ? it is plain , that where churches differ in faith , infallible faith in one , cannot stand with certain faith in the other . wherefore if mr. g. have fix'd infallibility in his own church , he has remov'd certainty from all that differ from her . let us then take and sift mr. g's argument , even as you put it , who had not , i suppose , partiality enough for him , to make it better than it was . you put it thus , p. , . . all traditionary christians believe the same to day which they did yesterday , and so up to the time of our blessed saviour ; and if they follow this rule , they can never err in faith , therefore are infallible . and you ( mr. g. ) prov'd they could not innovate in faith , unless they did forget what they held the day before , or out of malice alter it . and now , that there may be no mistake , let us take each proposition by it self . . the first is , [ all traditionary christians believe the same to day which they did yesterday , and so up to the time of our blessed saviour . ] you have nothing to say to this , i hope : for since traditionary christians are those who proceed upon tradition , and tradition signifies immediate delivery , it follows , that unless they believe the same to day which they did yesterday , and so upwards , they cease to be traditionary christians , by proceeding not upon an immediate , but an interrupted delivery , or some other principle . and so there is no denying this proposition , but by affirming that traditionary christians are not traditionary christians . . the second proposition is this . [ and if they follow this rule , they can never err in faith. ] this is palpably self-evident : for , to follow this rule is to believe still the same to day which they did yesterday : and so , if they did this from christ's time , and so forwards , they must still continue to believe , to the end of the world , the self-same that christ and his apostles taught ; and , therefore , cannot err in faith , unless those authors of our faith did : which that they did not , is not to be prov'd to christians . . there follows this inference : [ therefore they are infallible . ] this is no less plainly self-evident . for these words [ they can never err in faith ] in the antecedent , and [ they are infallible ] in the consequent , are most manifestly the self-same in sense , and perfectly equivalent . . the fourth and last ( which according to you , aim'd to prove , that they could not innovate ) is this . [ they could not innovate in faith , unless they did forget what they held the day before , or out of malice alter it . ] and this is no less unexceptionable than its fellows . for , if they knew not they alter'd faith , when they alter'd it , they had forgot what they believ'd the day before . if they alter'd it wittingly , excuse them from malice who can ; who , believing , as all who proceed upon tradition do , that tradition is the certain means to convey the doctrin of christ , would notwithstanding alter the doctrin convey'd to them by tradition . pray what ails this argument ? and what wants it , save bare application , to conclude what was intended as fully and as rigorously as you can desire ? and , pray , what need was there to apply it to the roman church , and say she follow'd tradition , to you who deny it not either of the roman or greek church ? as every thing is true , and every thing clear ; who now besides your self would have thought of an evasion from it ? and yet you venture at one , such as it is . . you tell us then , ( p. . ) that you thought the best way to shew the vanity of this rare demonstration , was to produce an instance of such as follow'd tradition , and yet mr. g. could not deny to have err'd , and that was of the greek church , &c. you had e'en as good have said , what mr. g. says is true , but yet he does not say true for all that . for to pitch upon nothing for false , is , in disputes , to own that every thing is true . the best way , say you ? i should have thought it every jot as good a way to have said nothing when one has nothing to say . but yet the world is oblig'd to you for letting them know what scholars knew before , that protestants think it the best way to answer catholic arguments , to give them no answer at all : for you are not to be told that this instance of yours is not an answer to mr. g-'s argument , but a new argument against him of your own , which undoubtedly you might have produc'd as well as my lord falkland , if you had been , as my lord falkland was , arguing . but it is your turn now to answer . and must you be minded of what every smatterer in logic knows , that an answerer is confin'd to his concedo , his nego , and distinguo , as the propositions which he is to speak to , are true , false or ambiguous ? he may deny the inference too , if he find more or other terms in the conclusion than in the premises . but these are his bounds ; and answering turns babbling , when they are exceeded . must you be minded that the business must be stopt before it come to the conclusion , and that otherwise there is no speaking against it ? for you know that if the premisses be right , and the inference good , the conclusion must be as necessarily true , as it is that the same thing cannot be , and not be at once ; that is , must be more certain than that england , for example , shall not crumble into atoms , or be swallow'd up in the sea to morrow : for this , and a thousand such things may happen to all material nature ; that a contradiction should prove true , cannot . and 't is perfect contradiction that terms which cohere in the premises , by being the same with a third , should not cohere with one another in the conclusion . must you be minded that an arguer is to prove his conclusion , and an answerer to shew he does not , by assigning where and how he fails ? do you do any such matter ? do you so much as go about it ? and would you have what you say pass for an answer ? pray consider the case : the church of rome is infallible , says mr. g. : she is not , say you . he brings his argument , and you your instance against it . what are people the wiser now ? and which shall they be for ; the argument or the instance ? they have reason to think well of the argument , because you have no fault to find with it ; and they may think as they please of the instance . you would not , i suppose , have them believe you both , and think the church of rome for your sake fallible , and , for his , infallible at once . pray what assistance do you afford them to determin either way ? and what do you more than e'en leave them to draw cuts , and venture their souls as handy-dandy shall decide , for you or mr. g. ? 't is true , when zeno would needs be paradoxing against the possibility of motion , his vanity was not ill ridicul'd by the walking of diogenes before him . for 't was palpably and ridiculously vain to talk against motion with a tongue , that must needs move to talk against it . and there may be vanity too in our case , for ought i know : but where shall it be lodg'd ? why more with mr. g's . argument than your instance ? why is it more vain to pretend to prove infallibility , upon which depend the hopes which millions and millions have of a blessed eternity , and which is prov'd by arguments , to which you think it your best way not to attempt to answer , than it is to except against a conclusion , against the premises whereof there lies no exception ? that is , to find fault with a sum total , and find none in the particulars , or the casting up : for a conclusion is a kind of sum total of the premises . but it is infinitely more vain to talk against one infallibility , unless you will set up another . for , if there be no means , by which men may be secur'd , that the ways they take to arrive at their greatest and only good will not deceive them , it cannot be expected they will take all the pains that are necessary to compass that good , which for ought they can tell , they may not compass with all their pains . 't is a pleasant thing in you to talk of the vanity of mr. g's . demonstration , when , by seeking to take infallibility out of the world , you are making the whole creation vain . for all material nature was made for rational nature , and rational nature requires rational satisfaction in all its proceedings , and most of all in the pursuit of happiness : and what rational satisfaction can there be , if there may be deceit in whatever can be propos'd for satisfaction ? in short , the result of your instance , whatever was the aim , it is to amuse and confound people , and hinder them perhaps from seeing what otherwise would be clear ; but it shews them nothing , nor can ; for that argument of yours is not at all of a shewing nature . . 't is , at best , but an argument ( as they call it ) ad hominem ; which you know are of the worst sort of arguments . they serve for nothing but to stop an adversaries mouth , or shame him , if he cannot answer without contradicting himself ; but are of no use towards the discovery of truth . for a thing is not the more or less true , because such a man's tongue is ty'd up for speaking against it . but is it so much as an argument ad hominem ? as all the little force of the topic consists in the obligation which a man may have to grant or deny what it supposes he does , it affords no argument at all against the man who has no such obligation . and pray where does it appear that mr. g. is oblig'd not to deny that the greek church has err'd in matters of faith ? and how can you , of all men , suppose he is ? you , who in your rational account ( p. . ) quote these words from peter lombard ; the difference between the greeks and latins , is in words and not in sense : name thomas à iesu , and azorius , and tell us of other roman catholic authors , of the same judgment , whom i suppose you could name . pray , how comes mr. g. to lye under an obligation , from which men of reputation in his own communion are exempt ? and what a wise argument ad hominem have you made against him , whom your self have furnish'd with an argument ad hominem to confute it when he pleases ? in fine , he goes to work like a scholar , puts his premises , and infers his conclusion , which you know cannot but be true , if there be no fault in his premises : and 't is for you to find one when you can . you put nothing to shew how the inference you make should be true , but barely assume , without proof , that he cannot deny it ( p. . ) : as if truth depended on his denying or affirming , and that what people say or think , made things true or false . and even , for so much , you are at his courtesie : if he be not the better natur'd , and will crossly affirm or deny in the wrong place , you and your argument are left in the lurch . in a word , one may see he aim'd at truth , who takes at least the way to it : what you aim'd at , you best know ; but no body shall ever discover what is , or is not true , by your method . . but that you may not complain , your cock is not suffer'd to fight , let us see what your instance will do . you put it thus , ( p. . ) the greek church went upon tradition from father to son , as much as ever the roman did . and i desir'd to know of mr. g. whether the greek church notwithstanding did not err in matters of faith ; and , if it did , then a church holding to tradition was not infallible . how ! if it did ? why then it is apparent if it did not , your argument holds not . and will you assume that the greek church errs , who believe she does not ? will you take a premise to infer a conclusion , upon which the salvation of people depends , which premise your self in your own heart think is not true ? can you deal thus with their souls , who pin them upon you , perswade them of what you are not perswaded your self , and offer them a securiy for their eternity , in which your own judgment tells you there is a flaw ? for you have declar'd your self upon this matter in your rational account , and taken great pains to clear the greek church , at least upon the article of the holy ghost , in which consists their main difference with the latins , and to which the other two you mention were added , i suppose , for fashion sake . i know you there propose to free that church from the charge of heresie . but pray what difference betwixt heresie and error in matter of faith ? unless you will trifle about obstinacy , and such collateral considerations ; which neither concern us here , nor were any part of your defence there . i see too that you word it here conditionally , and with reference to mr. g's . answer : as if his answer made or marr'd , and the greek church did or did not err , as he says , i , or no. whatever mr. g. may say , or you have said , unless the greek church actually does err , your instance is no instance of a church that goes upon tradition and errs ; and your inference that then a church holding to tradition was not infallible , is wondrous pertinently inferr'd from the example of a church that errs not . pray take it well that i intreat you by all the care you have of your own soul , and should have of others , to manage disputes about faith a little otherwise , and not propose arguments , in which you must needs think your self there is no force . for there is plainly none in this , if the greek church does not err ; and you at least think she does not . i am sure 't is what i would not do my self for all the world. . but to proceed to mr. g's . answer , ( p. . ) it was say you , that the greek church follow'd tradition , till the arians left that rule and took up a new one , &c. and why has he not answer'd well ? you assum'd that the greek church err'd while it went upon tradition ; if you did not , you said nothing ; for , that a church may follow tradition at one time , and leave it at another , is no news . 't is the case of all erring churches which ever follow'd tradition at all . mr. g's reply then that tradition was follow'd till another rule was taken up , denies that tradition and error were found together , as you contended , in the greek church . and pray what more direct or more full answer can there be to an argument , than to deny the premises ? as slightly as you would seem to think of him , he understood disputing better than to start aside into an exception against your conclusion , but answers fair and home by denying the assumption from which you infer it ; which now he has done , you know it rests with you to prove it ; and yet you never think on 't , as far as i see ; but , as if you had no more to do , fall a complaining against mr. g. for speaking of the arians , and not of the present greek church ; and against his copy , for leaving out the inference which you drew . in doing which , if he did so , he did you no small kindness ; there being no premises to draw the inference from , as has been shewn above ; or if any , such as put you to contradict your own doctrin ere any thing could follow from them . . as for the omission of the inference , i know not how it happen'd , nor mean to meddle with matter of fact. but i see they had reason , who observ'd before me , that 't is a thing of no manner of consequence , i verily think , in your own judgment . unless you think the age we live in so dull , that , without much hammering it into their heads , it cannot be perceiv'd , that if a church has err'd which held to tradition , a church may err which holds to tradition . or , unless you think it of mighty consequence to have an inference stand in the relation which fell with the premises at the conference . mr. g. took them away by his denial , and you must begin again , and bring something from whence you may draw an inference , if you will needs have an inference ; for an inference cannot be drawn from nothing . pray divert us not perpetually from minding what we are about ; but remember the question now is , whether the greek church held to tradition and err'd at once ? and bethink your self , if you please of a medium , which will infer that point for you ; for mr. g. you see denies it . . from his mentioning the arians you take occasi-to speak big , and bear us in hand he was hard put to it , and sought an occasion , and affirm ( p. . ) you could get no answer at all to the case of the present greek church . as if his answer pincht on the arians , and were not as full to the present as past greek church . it goes on this , that those who err in faith , let them be who they will , and the error what it will , and in what time and place you will , all leave tradition . whether the case of the present greek church be the same with the arians , is matter of fact , with which mr. g. did well not to meddle ; it is for you to make it out , if you will make good your argument . modern or ancient heresie is all one to his answer , which is applicable to all heresie : and you complain of the want of an answer when you have one . pray , if a man should put an objection to you about an animal , for example , and you answer it of all animals , would you think it just in him to quarrel with you for not mentioning the rational or irrational in particular ? and yet this is your quarrel to mr. g. all your magnificent talk ( p. . ) of undeniably true , granted by mr. g. known to every one , &c. as apt as i see it is to make a reader believe your instance is notoriously true , and against which mr. g. has nothing to say , cannot make me , or any man of reason , who examins the point , believe he has any reason to say more , till you do . he has answer'd directly , and positively deny'd , that error and tradition can be found together in the greek church , or any other , modern or ancient . there it sticks , and you may drive it on farther ( it being your own argument ) if you please . only when you tell us ( p. . ) that the present greek church in all its differences with the roman , still pleaded tradition , and adher'd to it , i wish you had told us whether you speak of differences in matter of faith , or no. for differences may be occasion'd by matters of faith , which are not differences in faith. if you do not , you support your instance very strongly , and prove the consistence of tradition with error in faith very learnedly , from differences which belong not to faith. if you do , as nature itches after strange sights , i long to see by what differences , or any thing else , it can be made out , that an erring church can still plead tradition , and adhere to it . not but that for pleading much may be , there are such confident doings in the world. as certain as it is , that the religion in england now , is not the same which it was before henry the eighth , i think there is confidence enough in england to plead tradition for it . 't is but finding some expression in an ancient writer , not couch'd with prophetical foresight enough to avoid being understood , as some will desire it should , and it will serve turn to pretend to antiquity , and bear the name of tradition . so i suspect you take it your self , when you say the arians insisted on tradition : for sure you do not think in earnest , that doctrin contrary to consubstantiality , was taught by christ , and believ'd from father to son till the council of nice . this , or some such thing may perhaps have been pleaded ; but for adhering to tradition , your servant . for , pray , did christ teach any error ? when a father believ'd what christ taught him , and the son what the father believ'd , did not the son too believe what christ taught ? run it on to the last son that shall be born in the world , must not every one believe what christ taught , if every one believ'd what his father believ'd ? and will you go about to persuade us , that there actually is a company of men in the world who adher'd to this method , all sons believing always as their fathers did , whereof the first believ'd as christ taught , and who notwithstanding err'd in matters of faith ? they would thank you for making this out , who would be glad that christ taught error and were not god. but it is not plainer that two and three make five , than it is that this cannot be . and yet you would top it upon us , and bear us in hand it is not only true , but apparent in the greek church , and known to every body who knows any thing of it . the comfort is , there is nothing for all these assertions but your word ; in which , where you stick not to pass it for an arrant impossibility , i for my part do not think there is absolute certainty . . i see not what there remains more , but to bear in mind where we are . at the conference , instead of answering mr. g's argument , you would needs make one of your own , which was in short ; the greek church goes upon tradition and errs , therefore another church may err which goes upon tradition . there was no need to trouble the greek church for the matter : it had been altogether as methodical , and as much to purpose , to have instanc'd in the latin church it self , and never gon further ; and shorter , to have spar'd instancing too , and have said without more ado , mr. g 's conclusion is not true : for you do no more , till you make it appear , that the church you pitch upon for an instance , do's indeed adhere to tradition and err . but , because this had been too open , and people would have sooner perceiv'd that it had been to say , i know not how to answer mr. g 's argument , but will notwithstanding stand to it , that his conclusion is false , you thought the best way to divert the reader 's attention from what 's before him , was to travel into greece ; and yet when you come there , do no more than if you had stay'd at home : for you barely say there is both tradition and error in the greek church , and you might have said as much of the latin ; or , without mentioning either , have said , tho' mr. g. has prov'd a traditionary church cannot err , i say it can and has . all is but saying till you come to proving : only to make a formal shew with an antecedent and a conclusion , you say it with the ceremony of an argument ; of which since mr. g. deny'd the antecedent , he had no more to do till you prov'd it . . so it stood at the conference , and so it stands still , and for ought i see , is like to stand : for tho' you have writ two letters since , there appears no word of proof in either , or sign that you do so much as think on it : you only say your instance over again , and would have the face you set upon it , and great words you give it , make it pass for plain and undeniable , when all the while it is plainly impossible , and actually deny'd . mr. g. i hope , will bide by his answer , because it is a good one , true in it self , and direct to the point : for it denies just what you assum'd , that the greek church stood upon tradition , and fell at the same time into error . and speaking as you do , or should do , of error in matter of faith , euclid never made any thing plainer than it is , that where ever error comes in , tradition goes out . of necessity therefore , if the present greek church have adher'd to tradition , it has not err'd : if it have err'd , it has not adher'd to tradition . which of the two is the case , neither concerns mr. g. nor can he dispute it without following bad example , that is , falling to argue now it is his part to answer . you would pass it upon us , that the greek church has err'd without swerving from tradition ; and you must either make it out , or acknowledge you have made much ado about nothing : for your instance is no instance , till it appears to be true ; till you do it , there is no work for mr. g. at the close ( p. . ) you desire mr. g. to make good two things , and tell us why you desire it , and what will follow if he accept or decline your motion . i neither understand how your proposals follow from your reasons , nor your consequences from your proposals : but think it no more worth losing time upon : them , than you thought it worth boasting of the victory . the first is , that we [ protestants ] have no absolute certainty as to the rule of our faith , viz. the scripture ; altho' we have a larger and firmer tradition for it , viz. the consent of all christian churches , than you [ catholics ] can have for the points of faith in difference between us . . i can tell you a better reason for this proposal than any you give . there was no avoiding to own absolute certainty to a man who talk'd of quitting your communion without it . but you knew well enough that your absolute certainty would be thwittled into sufficient certainty , and sufficient certainty into no certainty at last ; and had your wits about you when you thought of this proposal : for it is in effect to say , this certainty of faith is a troublesom matter , and not for my turn ; let us go to something else , leave faith and pass to scripture ; of which you , mr. g. shall prove we have no absolute certainty : for , if i should go about to prove we have , i foresee , that while i am seeking harbor in my larger and firmer tradition , i shall venture to split upon your infallibility , to contradict my th principle for the faith of protestants , and full at unawares into the snares laid for me in error nonplust , from p. to p. , which i have no mind to come near . but whatever reasons you had to make this proposal , i see none that mr. g. has to accept it . do you prove , if you please , that you have absolute certainty ; you , who bear those in hand who consult you , that you have ; and absolute certainty too of that of which you profess'd your self absolutely certain , viz. that you now hold all the same doctrin that was taught by christ and his apostles ; which by your own confession there , is the true point . for you know very well , one is not certain of his faith by being certain of scripture : your self take all who dissent from yours , to have not only an vncertain , but a wrong faith , else why do you dissent from them ? and yet they have all as much certainty of scripture as you . the truth is , if you were prest to make out your absolute certainty even of scripture in your way , you would perhaps find a hard task of it , for all your appeal to tradition . but it was not the point for which the conference was , nor ought it be the point here , neither ought mr. g. to meddle with it , and you trust much to his good nature to propose it : for , besides that all the thanks he would have for his pains , would be to have the arguments against your certainty , turn'd against the certainty of scripture one day , as if he did not believe scripture certain : you would have him undertake a matter in which he has no concern , to save you from an undertaking in which you are deeply concern'd , but with which you know not how to go thorow ; which is a very reasonable request . in a word , it is for you either to make manifest now , what you should have made manifest at the conference , viz. that protestants have absolute certainty , not only of the scripture , which they call their rule , but of the faith which they pretend to have from that rule ; or else to suffer another thing to be manifest , viz. that i said true when i said you cannot do it ; and thither i am sure it will come . . however , i am glad to hear any talk from you of absolute certainty , even tho' it be but talk : 't is a great stranger , as coming from your quarters , and has a friendly and an accommodating look , and therefore for both regards deserves a hearty welcome . for this very profession makes a fair approach towards the doctrin of infallibility , or rather 't is the self-same with it ; it being against common sense to say you judge your self absolutely certain of any thing , if at the same time you judge you may be deceiv'd in thus judging . but i accept the omen that you seem to grant you are thus absolutely certain , or infallible , by virtue of tradition ; for this makes tradition to be an infallible ascertainer in some things at least ; and , so , unless some special difficulty be found in other things that light into the same channel , it must needs bring them down infallibly too . now i cannot for my heart discern what great difficulty there can be 'to remember all along the yesterdays faith , or to be willing to be guided and instructed by their yesterdays fathers , teachers and pastors ; especially the sense of the points ( to omit many other means ) being determin'd by open and daily practice . yet i a little fear all this your seeming kindness for tradition , is only for your own interest ; and that , because you were necessitated to make use of it to abet scripture's letter , you allow it in that regard , these high complements ; but in other things , particularly in conveying down a body of christian faith ( which is incomparably more easie ) it will presently become useless and good for nothing . in the former exigency you esteem it a worthy rule , but in the later duty , a rule worthy — . now to let the reader plainly see that it was meer force , and not inclination , which oblig'd you to grant an absolute certainty in tradition conveying down scriptures letter , we will examin what you allow'd it when you laid your principles , and so spoke your own free thoughts unconstrain'd by any adversary : your fifteenth principle is put down ( p. . ) in error nonplust , and that part of it that concerns this present point , is thus reflected upon by your adversary ( p. , . ) [ again , tho all this were true , and that the scriptures were own'd as containing in them the whole will of god so plainly reveal'd , that no sober enquirer can miss of what 's necessary to salvation , and that therefore there needed no church to explain them : yet 't is a strange consequence , that therefore there can be no necessity of any infallible society of men to attest them , or to witness that the letter of scripture is right . this is so far from following out of the former part of dr. st's . discourse , that the contrary ought to follow ; or , from prejudicing his own pretence , that it conduces exceedingly to it . for certainly his sober enquirer would less be in doubt to miss of what 's necessary to salvation in case the letter , on which all depends , be well attested , than if it be not ; and most certainly an infallible society of men can better attest that letter than a fallible one : and those writings can with better shew of reason be own'd to contain in them the will of god , if their letter be attested beyond possibility of being wrong , than if left in a possibility of being such ; for if the letter be wrong , all is wrong in this case . — ] as manifest then as 't is , that to be absolutely certain of any thing , is not to be fallibly certain of it ; that is , as manifest as 't is , that to be absolutely certain of a thing , is to be infallibly certain of it ; so manifest it is , that you there contradict your self here , and , that , however you may endeavour to come off , you allow not heartily , nor without some regret and reluctancy , an absolute certainty to tradition , even in attesting scripture's letter . . in these words of yours ( p. ) [ as to the rule of our faith ] give me leave to reflect on the word [ ovr , ] and thence to ask you , who are yov ? a question which i ask not of your name or sirname , but of your judgment ( as you call it ) of discretion . are you a socinian , an arian , a sabellian , an eutychian , &c. or what are you ? are you a whole , or a half , or a quarter-nine-and-thirty-article man ? do you take them for snares , or fences , and when for the one , and when for the other , and wherefore ? these words [ the rule of ovr faith ] make you all these at once ; for all these profess unanimously scripture's letter is their rule of faith. mr. g. when he came to your house , imagin'd he was to treat with a protestant , or something like it , and to have learn'd from you what absolute certainty you would assign for your , ( that is , protestant ) faith ; and you give him only a generical latitudinarian rule , common to all the heresies in the world. the project of the comprehension-bill was a trifle to this : it brings into one fold all the most enormous straglers that have been since christ's time , nay wolves , and sheep and all . it blends into one mass the most heterogeneous and hitherto irreconcilable sects . nay , it miraculously makes light and darkness very consistent , and christ and belial very good friends . for your own credit sake then distinguish your kind of protestants ( if you be indeed one of that church ) from that infamous rabble of stigmatiz'd hereticks ; and let us know what is the proper difference that restrains that notion of a common rule to your particular , as such a kind of protestant , and shew us that specifical rule to be absolutely certain . i say , such a kind ; for even the word protestant too is a subaltern genus , and has divers species , and 't is doubted by many , who are no papists , under which species you are to be rankt . but , why should i vex you with putting you upon manifest impossibilities ? for the letter being the common rule to them all , and , as daily experience shews us , variously explicable , that which particularizes it to belong specially to this or that sect , as its proper rule , can be only this , [ according as my self , and those of my iudgment understand or interpret it . ] the difference then constituting your protestant rule , as distinguisht from that of those most abominable heresies , can only be [ as my own iudgment , or others of my side , thus or thus interpret scripture's letter ] and wriggle which way you please , there it will and must end at last . go to work then , distinguish your self by your ground of faith , and then make out this your proper rule to be absolutely certain or infallible ; and then , who will not laugh at you for attempting it , and assuming that to your self , which you deny to god's church , and preferring your self as to the gift of understanding scripture right , before the whole body of those many and learned churches in communion with rome ? nay , and before the socinians too ; without so much as pretending to make out to the world , that you have better means , either natural or supernatural , to interpret those sacred oracles , than had the others . . my last exception is , that you pretend the letter of scripture is a rule of faith for your people , which not one in a million , even of your own protestants relies on ; or ever thinks of relying on , in order to make choice of their faith , or determining what to hold . this pretence of yours looks so like a meer jest , that i cannot perswade my self you are in earnest , when you advance such a paradox . for , 't is manifest that while your protestants are under age , and not yet at years of discretion to judge , they simply believe their fathers and teachers ; that is , they follow the way of tradition , however misplac'd . and , when they come to maturity , pray tell us truly , how many of your sober enquirers have you met with in your life , who endeavour to abstract from all the prejudices they have imbib'd in their minority , and , reducing their inclin'd thoughts to an equal balance of indifferency , do with a wise jealousie , lest this popish way of believing immediate fathers and pastors should delude them , as it has done the whole world formerly , resolve to examin the book of scripture it self , read it attentively , pray daily and fervently , that god's spirit would discover to them , whether what they have learn'd hither to be true or no , and what is ; and , in a word , use all the fallible means ( for you allow them no other ) which your sober enquirers are to make use of to find out their faith ? i doubt , if you would please to answer sincerely , you would seriously confess you scarce ever met with such a one in your life ; that is , never met with any one who rely'd upon scripture's letter practically for his rule of faith , whatever you may have taught them to talk by rote . can any man of reason imagin , that all the reformed in denmark or sueden ( to omit others ) did light to be so unanimously of one religion meerly by means of reading your letter-rule , and your sober enquiry ? or can any be so blind , as not to see , that 't is the following the natural way of tradition , or childrens believing fathers ( that is , indeed , of education ) that such multitudes in several places , continue still of the same perswasion ; and that you consequently owe to this way , which you so decry in catholics , that any considerable number of you do voluntarily hang together at all ? and that those principles of yours , which you take up for a shew , when you write against catholics , would , if put in practice , in a short time crumble to atoms all the churches in the world ? perhaps , indeed , when your protestants come at age , they may receive some confirmation from their fathers and preachers , quoting scripture-places against what catholics hold , or what they shall please to say they hold ; and by the same means come to believe a trinity , the godhead of christ , christ's body being absent in the sacrament , and such like ; but do the hearers and learners make it their business to use all careful disquisition ( for a slubbering superficial diligence will not serve the turn in matters of such high concern ) whether the catholics , and those great scripturists , who deny those other points , do not give more congruous explications of those places than their own preachers do ? unless they do this , or something equivalent , 't is manifest the letter of scripture is not their rule , but honest tradition . and that they do no such thing , is hence very apparent , that they rest easily satisfi'd , and well appaid with their parson's interpretation of scripture , they presently accept it for right and good , and readily swallow that sense , which some learned men , of their own judgment , assign it , without thinking themselves oblig'd to observe your method of sober enquiry . you may rail against the council of trent , as you will , for forbidding any to interpret scripture against the sense which the church holds ; but 't is no more than what your hearers perpetually practise , and the preachers too ( for all their fair words ) expect from them . and i much doubt even your self ( tho' your principles are the most pernicious for taking matters out of the churche's , and putting them into private hands , of any protestant i ever yet read ) would not take it very well if some parishioner of yours , presuming upon his prayers for direction , &c. should tell you that you err'd in interpreting scripture , and that the sense he gave it , was sound and right faith , yours wrong and heretical ; and i would be glad to know what you would say to him , according to your principles , if he should hap to stand out against you , that he understands scripture to be plainly against a trinity and christ's divinity , as iohn biddle did against the minister of his parish , and the whole church of england to boot . 't is plain you ought to cherish and commend him for standing firm to his rule ; but i am much afraid you would be out of humor with him , and esteem your self affronted . you may pretend what you please of high expressions given by antiquity , of scripture's incomparable excellency , and sufficiency for the ends it was intended for , which we do not deny to it ; but i dare say , even your self do's not think , that either the ancient faithful , or the modern reformers , meant that any of the ecclesia credens , or believing church , should have the liberty to interpret scripture against the ecclesia docens , or teaching church , i. e. pastors ; or coyn a faith out of it , contrary to the present or former congregation of which he was a member . . the sum is ; 't is evident hence , that tradition of your fathers and teachers , and not scriptures letter , is indeed your rule ; that by it you interpret scripture ; which then only is call'd your rule , and made use of as such , when you are disputing against us ; because having thus set it up , to avoid and counterbalance the authority of the former church you left , you make account your own private interpretation of it may come to be thought argumentative against the great body of those churches from whose communion you departed ; and yet you judge no private parishioner should claim the same priviledge against you , without affronting your great learning , and pastoral authority . but i much wonder you should still venture to call scripture's letter a rule of faith , having been beaten from that tenet so pitifully in error nonplust , from pag. . to pag. . where i believe you may observe divers particulars requisit to be clear'd e're the letter can be in all regards absolutely certain , which the consent of all christian churches will never reach to by their meer authority , unless you will allow the sense of christ's doctrin descending by tradition , did preserve the copy substantially right and intire . . your pretended rule of faith then , being in reality the same that is challeng'd by all the heretics in the world , viz. scripture's letter interpreted by your selves ; i will let you see in this following short discourse , how far it is from being absolutely certain . i. god has left us some way to know surely what christ and his apostles taught . ii. therefore this way must be such , that they who take it , shall arrive by it at the end it was intended for ; that is , know surely what christ and his apostles taught . iii. scripture's letter interpretable by private iudgments , is not that way ; for we experience presbyterians and socinians ( for example ) both take that way , yet differ in such high fundamentals , as the trinity , and the godhead of christ. iv. therefore scripture's letter interpretable by private iudgments , is not the way left by god to know surely what christ and his apostles taught , or surely to arrive at right faith. v. therefore they who take only that way , cannot by it arrive surely at right faith , since 't is impossible to arrive at the end , without the means or way that leads to it . . i do not expect any answer to this discourse , as short as it is , and as plain and as nearly as it touches your copyhold ; it may be serv'd as mr. g's argument is , turn'd off so so with an instance , if there be one at hand ; or , with what always is at hand , an irony or scornful jest , your readiest ; and , in truth , most useful servants : but you must be excus'd from finding any proposition or inference to deny , or any thing , save the conclusion it self : which , tho' it will not be fairly avoided , i cannot hope should be fairly admitted , unless i could hope that men would be more in love with truth than their credit . till truth be taken a little more to heart , catholic arguments will and must always be faulty ; but they are the most unluckily and crosly faulty of any in the world ; faulty still in the wrong place . when fault is found in other arguments , it is always found in the premisses ; in these , 't is found in the conclusion : in which , notwithstanding , all who know any thing of a conclusion , know there can be no fault , if there be none in the premisses . indeed , they shew that to be true which men cannot endure should be true ; and that is their great and unpardonable fault . that you may not think i talk in the air , i declare openly , that you cannot answer this discourse , unless you will call some unconcerning return an answer ; and i engage my self to shew the proposition true , and the inference good , which you shall pitch upon to deny ; and the distinction , if you will make any , not to purpose . the truth is , i engage for no great matter ; for i know beforehand you can no more answer now , than you could to error nonplust , or can prove an absolute certainty in protestant faith. . to return now to mr. g. the second thing which you desire him to make good , is , that the tradition from father to son is an infallible conveyance of matters of faith , notwithstanding the greek church is charged by him with error , which adher'd to tradition . that is , you desire him to prove over again , what you tell us your self he has prov'd once already : for you tell us ( p. . ) , he prov'd , that they [ traditionary christians ] could not innovate in faith , unless they did forget what they held the day before , or out of malice alter it . pray , when it is prov'd , that the conveyance of faith by tradition , excludes the possibility of change in faith , save by forgetfulness or malice , is it not prov'd , that , where there could be neither forgetfulness nor malice , there could be no change in faith ? you do not , i suppose , desire he should prove , that men had always memories , or that christians were never malicious enough to damn themselves and posterity wittingly ; and yet it can stick no where else : if it can , said mr. g. assign where . now you know very well , that a conveyance which makes it impossible that faith should ever be chang'd , is an infallible conveyance ; and the very thing is prov'd which you desire should be prov'd . what reason has mr. g. to prove it a second time ? and what reason have you to desire it ? if proof would content you , you have it already ; but a second cannot hope to content you better than the first , unless it be worse . . yes , but you would have him prove , notwithstanding the greek church , &c. ( p. . ) notwithstanding ? why , do you think it is with arguments as with writs , where the want of a non obstante spoils all ? when a truth is once prov'd , is it not prov'd , notwithstanding all objections ? and will any notwithstanding unprove it again ? will your notwithstanding shew us there was a time in which men were not men , nor acted like men ? will it shew us , that a thing which cannot possibly be chang'd , may yet possibly remain not the same ? will it shew us , that a cause can be without its effect , or an effect without its cause ? will it shew us , that a thing can be and not be at once ? unless it can do such feats as these , you may keep your notwithstanding to your self , for any service it will do you here : for all the notwithstandings in the world cannot hinder a thing which is true , from being true ; nor the proof which proves it to be true , from being a proof . mr. g 's proof shews , that tradition from father to son is an infallible conveyance of faith , as plainly , as that men are men : and would you persuade us with the rhetorick of your notwithstanding , that we do not see what we see ? tho' you had brought twenty of them instead of one , we could see nothing by them ▪ but that you had a good fancy ; for they shew us nothing of the object , nor offer at it . you shew us not how the operations of human nature should be suspended in our present case , nor any thing which should or could suspend them , but would have us believe men were prodigiously forgetful or malicious , purely for the sake of an imagination of yours . i pray rub up afresh your old logical notions , and reflect whether it were ever heard of in university disputes , that when an argument is advanc'd , the defendant is allow'd to make objections against it ; and instead of answering , bid the arguer prove his conclusions to be true , notwithstanding all his objections ? consider how perfectly this confounds the offices of the disputant and defendent , and makes all regular discourse impossible . consider how this new method of yours destroys the very possibility of ever concluding any thing , that is , the very faculty of reasoning ; for objections being generally multipliable without end , if all of them must be solv'd e're any argument concludes , nothing will be concluded , nor any conclusion admitted : and so a long so farewel to rational nature . consider that truth is built on its own intrinsecal grounds , and not on the solving objections . for your own credits sake then with learned men and logicians , do not seek to evade with notwithstandings , but answer fairly and squarely to the argument as it lies : consider , that who has found the cause , has found the effect . mr. g. has found us a cause of infallible conveyance , and therefore has shew'd us an infallible conveyance . you pretend , that tho' there was the cause , there was not the effect ; and this 't is known beforehand cannot be , and you knew it as well as any body : but you knew likewise there was no saving your stakes without playing a new game ; and therefore , give you your due , did all that could be done , in trying to divert our sight from a matter plain before us , and amuse us us with a matter of fact , which you are sure will be obscure enough , by that time it is handled long enough . the terms you put , viz. tradition , error , and the greek church , must needs bring into dispute , whether such and so many quotations , or some one or two men disclaiming their tenet to be a novelty , be a proof of tradition from father to son ; whether the error be any error ; and whether , and for how much , an error in faith , and how much of it belongs to divinity ; whether the greek church be ingag'd by a citation from a greek author ; of two that be cited , one against another , which shall be preferr'd , and thought to speak the sense of his church ; and which is a latiniz'd , which a frank grecian . and who shall see through the mists which these disputes will raise ? more too will fall in in process of time : there will be wrangling about the sense of words , the propriety of phrases , the preference of readings , and twenty such important quarrels ; which will tire out every body , and satisfie no body . in short , you saw that if you could perswade people not to think the church of rome infallible , till all be said , which will occur to be said of the greek church , you are safe enough ; for doomsday will come before that day . till then you may carry it with a shew of erudition , because there must be abundance of greek cited . and this is all which can come of your instance ; and i wish it were not all you had in your eye . . in the mean time you have not answer'd mr. g. because you have found no fault in any proposition , or in the inference of his argument ; and therefore it rests with you to answer it . he has answer'd you ; because he has found this fault with your instance , which you make your antecedent , that it is not true ; and that the greek church did not at once err in faith , and adhere to tradition : and therefore it rests again with you to prove it ; and yet while you are debtor both ways , you call upon him to pay . ere we part , take this along with you , that the debt which you are precisely bound to satisfie , first is to answer his argument , and till you do this , you can claim no right to object or argue . i am sir your humble servant . the second catholick letter ; or , reflections on the reflecters defence of dr. stillingfleet's first letter to mr. g. against the answer to the arguing part of it . published with allowance . london , printed , and sold by matthew turner at the lamb in high-holbourn . . to the reader . perhaps it has scarce been seen hitherto , that all our polemical contests were reduc'd within so narrow a compass . my first letter insisted chiefly on two short discourses : whereof the one undertook to shew the nullity of the rule of faith , claim'd by dr. st. and his protestants . the other the absolute certainty of the catholic rule ; and the whole controversie was , in short , about the certainty or uncertainty of christian faith. both of those discourses were presum'd by us to be conclusive ; and so we offer'd a fair advantage to our adversary , if he could shew clearly any of our propositions was false , or their connexion slack . hence i had good hopes that reply of mine would have brought our controversie very near an end , had dr. st's return been suitable to our attempts . especially , it had brought the business to a crisis , had he been pleas'd to shew the absolute certainty of his rule , or of his faith , as grounded on that rule , which was justly expected . but error nonplust has already convinc'd the world , that the bringing any dispute to principles or grounds , agrees not with their constitution who have none . while our expectations were thus rais'd , no news could we hear of dr. st. an answer comes out from another hand ; not very obliging to him in my opinion , whether he were or were not preacquainted with it : for if he were ( and 't is hard to imagine that a piece writ in his defence had not both his direction , inspection , and approbation ) people will suspect he foresaw what would come of it , and was glad the shame should fall on another ; and that he has but little kindness for his friend , whom he suffers to write on this manner . if he were not , they will suspect his friends have as little kindness for him , and less regard , who manage his cause without his privity . however it be , the answer affords no work for a replier , but the most ungrateful one in the world ; to be perpetually telling men of their faults , without the least hopes of doing them good , or contributing to their amendment ; they being of such a nature , that they are our adversaries most necessary supports in their unlucky circumstances . and indeed , the whole piece seems to have no other design , but to bring the dispute into a wrangle . yet this profit may be hoped , that every moderate iudgment will see by the very methods we take , which side desires and sincerely endeavours that truth may appear . it would be much a greater , if dr. st. or whom he pleases to employ , would plainly shew the * absolute certainty which he says they have ; or else plainly confess they have it not . but this is not to be hoped . yet i entreat the reader , because i distrust my own credit , to sollicit him ( if he thinks it not too dangerous for him ) to do the one or the other ; and in doing it , to use as much reason as he will , and as little laughing as he can . we are sufficiently satisfy'd of his faculty of risibility , and would be glad to see a touch or two of his rationality . reflections on dr. st's reflecters defence addrest to himself . . i enquire not , sir , since it concerns me not to know , why you would needs become a party , or rather an advocate in a cause , depending between dr. st. and another . if it were desir'd of you , you are to be excus'd , so you perform well what you undertook ; that is , to defend the dr. especially his logick , and his absolute certainty ; but if you had nothing to draw you in , besides the weight of what you had to say , i think you might very well have kept out . you begin like a man of art , with prepossessing your reader against your adversary , and in favour of your self : and so would have me pass for a pleasant , artificial , deluding companion ; and your self for a man , godly even to scruple , and who cannot barely repeat the metaphor ( of holding ones cards ) without * asking pardon . the reader will find , by your writing , to which of us your former character is most like . in the mean time , i own the confidence of talking of self-evidence , and absolute certainty , and infallibility ; and bless the mercy of god , for making me of a communion , in which that language is proper ; and humbly pray him to preserve me from the face ( if i must not say confidence ) of setting up for a guide without them . for , between a blind guide , and one who sees not his way , i think the difference is not great . much good may your modesty do you ; your obscurity ; your vncertainty and fallibility . if your conscience perswade you these are the best qualifications of christan doctrin , and best security which god would provide for the souls of men , mine would sooner use twenty metaphors , than perswade people to venture their eternity upon them . but , at worst , it is no greater fault in me sure , than in * dr. st. to talk of absolute certainty . unless he perhaps repent , and would be content an unfortunate word inconsiderately blurted out , should be retracted for him by another , which 't is not so handsome to retract himself ; whereas i , like a man of confidence , meant what i said , and stand to it ; and can have no good opinion of those modest men , that say and unsay , as sutes with the occasion . . to fall to our business , your discourse has three parts . the first reflects on what i said of turning proof over from your protestants to catholicks : the second pretends to answer my argument ; and the third , mr. g's . some gleanings in your language there are besides ; but this is the main crop. upon the first point , since proof does or does not belong to protestants , there is nothing more to be said to purpose , but either to shew that proof does not belong to them , or to bring it if it does . but let us see how you handle the matter . . i had exprest my self to grieve and wonder there should be so little value for souls among your party , as to send men to the tribunal of god , without furnishing them with assurance that they can justifie their accounts themselves . but if ( say you ) they may be assured they can give up a good account , may they not be assur'd that they have the grace of god , and of their iustification and salvation ? and then what becomes of the council of trent ? of what account do you speak , i beseech you ? if , as i did , of an account of faith , i hope you will not perswade us a man cannot know why he believes , without knowing whether he be in the state of grace , or sure of his salvation ; and therefore , i hope you will not persist to think it hard to conceive how the bare assurance of the truth of what is taught , should enable a man to justifie his account , without an assurance of grace too ; since his very assurance of the truth which he believes is a iustification of his account , for believing it . if you speak of an account of our whole lives , it becomes you huge well to talk of my confidence , who have your self the confidence to turn things against the plain scope of my discourse , against my plain words , and ( i much fear ) against your own knowledge . for where the only question was of the certainty of protestant faith , or ( which is all one ) of christian faith , upon your protestant grounds : an account why your protestants believe , who cannot tell whether christ taught it , was the only account that belongs to that question . but what needs more ? are not you , i too , fully perswaded , while we are writing this very controversie , that we maintain the truth of our faith by such arguments as can justifie us not to have fail'd of that duty ; and if we do so , cannot both us justifie our selves in that particular , and all who assent upon them , to god as well as man ? and cannot either of us bring a solid argument to prove that christ taught what we hold , without being assur'd before-hand we are in the state of grace , and shall be sav'd ? or , is this any thing to the council of trent , as you pretend ? what paltring is this then , to pretend , that no controvertist can bring a proof that concludes christ taught such a doctrin , and so justifies them that adhere to the truth it evinces ; for fear ( forsooth ) of making men sure of their iustification and salvation , and of contradicting the council of trent . a pretty fetch , to excuse your selves from bringing any arguments worth a straw to justifie your followers , for believing upon them ! alas ! you have store enough of them ; but out of pure conscience ( we must think ) dare not produce them , for fear of enabling your people to justifie themselves for not believing rashly ; or for fear of making them sure of their salvation . . i had alledg'd farther , that till protestants produce the grounds which prove their faith to be true , it cannot with reason be held truth . you put my discourse first in my words , only leaving out those which did not please you , and then disguise it in your own , and laugh at it for being too plainly true : for plain truth , it seems , is a ridiculous thing with you ; and you are of opinion , that the more plain it is , that you ought to bring your proofs , the less you are oblig'd to bring them . thence you start aside to tell us , that the vulgar catholic has less certainty than the vulgar protestant ; because the one has only the word of his priest , the other has the word of his minister and the word of god in scripture besides . do you think catholic priests are at liberty to tell the vulgar what faith they please , as your ministers may interpret scripture as seems best to their judgment of discretion ! when you cannot but know , they dare not teach them any faith , but what the church holds ; nor does the church hold any but upon tradition ? again , you do well to say your people have it in scripture , or in a book ; for they have it no where else . and you know the vulgar socinians and presbyterians , and all the rest , have it as much there , as your vulgar protestants , notwithstanding all you have said , or can say ; and then , i suppose , you do not think they truly have the word of god on their side , unless you think the word of god says different things to different hearers . when you prove that you and your ministers have any certain means of making it out , that the sense , which by their explaining and catechising they put upon the written characters , is truly god's meaning , you will do something , make many converts , and my self one among the rest : till then , to possess your vulgar protestants with a conceit of having the word of god , is meerly to delude them . sure you wanted a common-place to furnish out your paragraph , or else writ it in a dream . for , * to tell me , that truth can depend no more upon the saying of a romish priest , than of an english minister , when i tell you , it depends not on any private man's sayings , is not a reply of a man well awake . in two words , bring you proofs , say i ; the saying , that is , the no-proof of a minister , is as good as the no-proof of a priest , say you ; and the short and the long is ; no proof , i thank you . . but two things , say you , follow from my position , which you fear i will not grant . the first is , that if we cannot with reason hold a truth till the intrinsical grounds of it be produc'd , we cannot with reason hold any thing for a truth , namely , because the church of rome hath determined it ; for her determination is no intrinsical ground of the truth , but only an outward testimony or declaration of it ; and then what 's become either of her infallibility or authority to command our faith ! as slips of honest ignorance deserve compassion and instruction , and i do not know this to be any more , i will be so charitable , as to set you right . authority , amongst those who already admit it for true , has force to prove that to be truth , which depends on it , and will conclude against those who allow its veracity , if it be shewn to be engag'd against them . but it has not this effect upon human nature by its proper power as 't is meer authority ; but , because intrinsical mediums justifie it to be worthy to be rely'd on . whence , let that authority come into dispute , it will lose it's credit , unless it can be prov'd by such mediums to deserve what it pretends to . and , hence , you see we go about to demonstrate the infallibility of the church's human authority , in deriving down christian faith. to clear this farther , i advance this fundamental position ; viz. no authority deserves any assent farther than reason gives it to deserve : and , therefore , without abating any thing of our respect , we may affirm , that the authority of the whole catholick church would be no greater than that of an old woman , ( or one of your sober enquirers ) were there no more reason to be given for believing the former , than there is for believing the later . and consonantly to this doctrin , we declare to you , that , when dr. st. comes to argue , either out of authority of writers , or instances depending on their authority , against tradition ; he shall be prest to make out by intrinsical mediums they are absolutely certain ; or they shall deservedly be look'd upon and contemn'd as inconclusive . by this time , i hope , you see that all truths are built on intrinsical mediums ; and , that whereas you apprehended they would overthrow our church's testimony or authority , such mediums ( in case we produce them ) are the best means to establish it , and give it force upon our selves and others : as also , how it comes that the church can oblige to belief : which is not by a dry commanding our faith , as you apprehend ; but by having its human authority so solidly grounded upon reason , that it self becomes a motive able to beget , according to the best maxims of rational nature , such an assent in us , to this matter of fact , that christ and his apostles taught such doctrins . but , what a put off is this ? we say truth is not therefore truth , because of mens bare sayings or authority ; and therefore demand your proofs from intrinsical mediums , ( for thither it must come , e're it be known for truth ) to make out what you pretend ; your answer , in effect , is , you are afraid to do it , lest you should destroy our church's infallibility and authority . how much is our church in your debt , that the care of her makes you careless of those souls in your own church , to whom you owe this satisfaction . . the second thing you fear i will not grant , is , a iudgment of discretion to common people , with which they may discern the intrinsical grounds of truth . you gave your self at first the character of a scrupulous man ; and i see by this , you have a mind to maintain it . you know , that those who write and print , can have no design their books should not be read ; and you know those that read , will and must judge of what they do read ; and yet your scrupulosity can fear i will not allow the common people to judge of the intrinsical grounds of truth , who take pains they may judge , put it into their power to judge , and out of my own , and so cannot hinder them , tho' i would . indeed , i think it no great sign of a judgment of discretion , to pretend to discern the truth of faith , by lights that do not shew it to be true ; and , upon such a judgment i wish and labour people should not venture their souls . but i disallow no other iudgment of discretion ; full well knowing , that the more judgment a man has , and the more he uses it , the sooner and better he will discern , that the doctrin of christ cannot be securely learnt from those of your and dr. st's principles . but , why all this ? or , how come i to stand in your way ? do i hinder you from shewing protestants that they are certain of their faith ? they allow a judgment of discretion , if it stick there , whether i do or no. but you cannot gratifie catholics with proof , it seems , because they are against judgment of discretion ; nor protestants , because they are for it ; that is , in plain terms , you will not prove the certainty of your faith at all . you conclude very conformably , that i * have set us all on even ground : yes , most mathematically even : for i set absolute certainty on the one side , and vncertainty on the other ; and this , in your language , is even ground . . your next paragraph says , i fall upon the certainty of protestant faith ; which i hope easily to overthrow . the reader cannot but apprehend now , that i am making arguments against it , of which you know very well i did not think . where do i fall upon this matter ! why , i said , suppose mr. g. could not prove protestants are certain , are they therefore certain ? the meaning of which words is clearly this , that the certainty of protestant faith must depend on their own proofs for it , not on any man 's being able or not able to prove the contrary , which is what dr. st. would have put upon us . so that ( to avoid proving , which was demanded ) you put upon me the direct contrary to what i affirm'd , viz. that the certainty of protestant faith does depend upon our not proving they have none ; whereas i contend it does not depend upon it . what shifts are you put to , that you may escape this dangerous business of proving your faith certain . well , but did i say true , or no ? you trouble not your head with such impertinent thoughts , but fall to prophesie what i imagin'd . this ( say you ) he first imagins , that all the certainty of our faith is this , that papists cannot prove it to be uncertain , and that then i make sport with my own imagination . better and better ! not to take notice of your shuffling in , that papists cannot prove protestants are not certain , which i am very far from imagining ; because i said our not-proving the contrary , is no certainty to protestants , he will have me imagin it is their certainty ; nay , all their certainty : when he knows i am aware , and confess they pretend to scripture for it ; and , p. . urg'd them to make out they had absolute certainty by it. the rest is , to tell me i play , and you will be serious : and your way of being serious , when you have chosen to fall upon this question , whether protestants become certain by our not proving them uncertain , is , without saying a word to it , to skip to another paragraph of mine . . where i had said , that any man may find it confest to his hand , by protestants , that they have no absolute certainty of their faith : for which i cited dr. tillotson . and you tell me first , that dr. tillotson is an excellent man ; and so he is ; for he excells even your self ( which requires a great talent in your way of handling controversie ) in all your arts. next , to take your turn in imagining , you imagin single dr. tillotson too many for all the traditionary catholicks to answer his rule of faith. and i imagin , that dr. tillotson knows the contrary : for i have been inform'd , dr. tillotson had the offer of an answer , from a traditionary catholic long ago , upon condition he would contribute his credit to get it printed : which he thought not sit to do . since i perceive you do not know an answer when you see it , unless the word [ answer ] be in the title-page , i will not tell you it is answer'd already , tho' i believe i can make it good : but i will venture a fair wager with you , it will be answer'd , in his own formal way , every jot as soon as reason against railery . lastly , you deny that this confession that protestants have no certainty ( no absolute certainty , if it please you ) of their faith , is to be found in the pages cited , or any other part of dr. tillotson's book . if you do not understand english , i cannot help it ; but any one that does , may find in the last of the pages cited . as far as silence gives consent , it is own'd by dr. tillotson himself : for it was laid before him by reason against railery , and with him it has lain these fifteen years ; and yet you would perswade us you see it not , nor i neither , if i may be believ'd against my self . . your rhetorick , sir , is very great , if it will do you this piece of service ; but let us hear it however . i had said to dr. st. p. . you seem to grant you are thus absolutely-certain or infallible , by vertue of tradition . upon which theme you thus declame . how ? confess we have no certainty ( no absolute certainty , i beseech you again ) and yet seem to grant we are infallible , and that too by vertue of tradition . — some people had need of good memories . as if it were so strange a thing for protestants to contradict one another , or the same man himself ; or , that there needed memory to observe what passes every day . by the favour of your exclamations , dr. st. did say at the conference , that they are absolutely certain , that they now hold all the same doctrin that was taught by christ and his apostles , — by the divine revelations contained in the writings of the new testament ; and of those revelations by the vniversal testimony of the christian church . and in his first letter he did desire mr. g. to prove that they have no absolute certainty as to the rule of their faith , altho' they have a larger and firmer tradition for it than we can have for the points of faith in difference . and dr. tillotson did say in his rule of faith , p. . we are not infallibly certain that any book ( speaking of scripture ) is so ancient as it pretends to be , or that it was written by him whose name it bears ; or , that this is the sence of such and such passages in it : it is possible all this may be otherwise . now , if one of those writers do not seem to grant that they are absolutely certain , ( or infallible ) and that too by vertue of tradition , and the other confess , that they have no absolute certainty of their faith , english is no intelligible language in england . if you think this a contradiction , you may talk with your excellent men about it , and let me alone ; till you can shew i talk against my self by relating barely what others say . must my memory be blam'd , when their judgments are in fault ? for a contradiction it is , if absolutely certain and infallible be the same ; which i both prov'd formerly , and it will come into play again e're long . however i only said they seem'd to grant , &c. for the tenet of faiths vncertainty , if i may speak what i think , is hearty in them ; it 's absolute certainty is but seeming ; and surely , 't is lawful to say he seems to hold it , who in print avows it , whether he do indeed hold it or no. . from hence you pass to a company of traditionary gentlemen ; with whom if you have business , i have none , and think yours cannot be very great , since you take this time to dispatch it . you may dispatch with me , if you please , first ; and say what you will to them afterwards . dr. tillotson , you say , in his rule of faith , p. . &c. said great matters of them , and if i find them wrong'd , i have the liberty to vindicate them . i know you would invent twenty impertinent tasks for me , so i would but forget the point in hand , and excuse you from proving . but how careless are you of what you say . one of those authors was occasionally vindicated in the letter of thanks , and the notorious abuse of him , made good against that dr's excuse , in reason against railery , p. . to p. . and were it seasonable , perhaps we should find the others abus'd too , or wilfully misunderstood . but , what is this to our present business ? at last , you conclude with a seasonable warning , as you call it ; that , if any protestant shall begin to plead infallibility by vertue of tradition , it will behove catholicks in time to seek cut a new one . why so , i beseech you ! this is as much as to say , that , as soon as protestants take a fancy to any thing that belongs to catholicks , it is their own , and catholicks must presently yield it up . your reason is , because when both parties pretend alike to infallibility and tradition , neither of these can be any longer a fit medium to prove which is in the right . what will be when both pretend alike , we shall see when the time comes . but , why must they , or how can they pretend alike ? can tradition infallibly deliver contrary things ? why should tradition be a medium less fit to determine between catholick and protestant , which of them has right to infallibility , when both pretend to it by tradition , than a deed to determine between peter and paul , which has right to the estate , which both claim by the same deed ? do their contrary pretences hinder it from being seen whether the deed be for peter or paul ; or tradition for catholicks or protestants ? or do you think a protestant , to get tradition on his side , has no more to do , but to pretend to it . at this rate , scripture cannot be a fit medium for you , because all hereticks pretend to it , and alike too . but it seems , that with you , when two pretend , one with right , the other without it , they both pretend alike , or with equal title . of which it was , indeed , seasonable to warn us ; for neither we , ( nor any man well in his wits ) would have hit on it of our selves . thus much in return to your present excursion . but what 's become of your proof all this while ? instead of bringing that , you tell me , i fall upon protestant certainty , of which there was not the least shew ; that i speak against my self ; that dr. tillotson is an excellent man , that he did not confess , &c. out of which rambling talk we are to conclude , that your protestant proof needs not appear ; but to make us amends for this constant neglect , you will needs give us a seasonable warning ; and that 's worth all the proof in the world. . yet we shall have this proof , i hope , in the next paragraph : for you give me notice then , when your certainty ( absolute certainty , i pray you again for dr. stillingfleet's sake ) is once prov'd , no more is needful to confute our infallibility , and that you are not afraid to undertake making it good , even all that i here call upon you to prove . and you do not raise our expectations sure only to defeat them . yet it bodes ill , that you would have the word [ absolutely ] left out a while : a motion which would make a jealous man suspect you had a design to palm a certainty upon us which will prove no-certainty . but you are absolute master of your own proofs , and may put in and put out what you please . i , for my part , cannot consent to leave that word out ; because it is not fair to alter a word of dr. st's ; nor possible , tho' it were fair . for you and i cannot make him not have said what he has said ; and , tho' we should agree to suppress that word amongst our selves , it will still be found in his two letters , do what we can . but , now we are thus far onward , 't is pity to break for a single word ; and to give you your due , you begin to deal here very fair with us . we manifest , say you . very well : now the business is on the hinges again ; and here is not only proof , but manifest proof coming . but what is it which you manifest ? why , the certainty you have of scripture ; and that , after the same manner as we do our ▪ rule or scripture , i know not which you mean. but , i see you need a good memory too as well as your neighbours : for you do not remember that absolute certainty of scripture is not the point to be prov'd , tho' i told you so in the very page you cite . i wav'd that point , not to be more severe than needs and put protestants upon a task which i told them withal they would find a hard one ; but from which , while we both agree that scripture is certain , i was willing to excuse them . again , you forget that just before you wonder'd at me for saying , you seem to grant you are thus absolutely certain or infallible by vertue of tradition ; and now you say , you manifest your certainty in the same manner as we do ; and sure you do not forget , that our manner of manifesting is by tradition . but , to lose no more time about that which is not the point , pray how do you prove that which is ▪ . why , you think you do sufficiently prove the certainty of every article of your faith , when you shew it to be solidly grounded on god's word ; and , this being shewn , wonderful things will follow . in the mean time you speak oracle , and have all the reason in the world to think that you prove sufficiently , when you solidly shew : neither did you need to mince it with sufficiently , for 't is very absolutely certain you do prove when you solidly shew or prove ; and this you might have said with less ceremony if you had been pleas'd : for we can see well enough , that when there is proof , there is proof ; tho' our expectation had not been screw'd up with your professions of courage to undertake , or shews to perform . this is just to invite your company , say grace to them , tell them you think you treat them sufficiently , when you set solid meat on the board ; and , all this done , send them hungry away . pray , when will that when of yours be ? when will the day come , in which you will shew your faith to be solidly-grounded on the word of god ? every article , as you word it , ( to bring it , i suppose , to your solid endless way of quoting and criticizing ) is too much at present . we are not got so far yet : it will be time to talk of this or that article , when this or that article is in question . at present , you are to shew , if you can , that you have any means , unless you take ours to ground any article solidly on the word of god. you are to shew your interpretation of it is absolutely certain , and that god's word means as you teach it does . otherwise your confident talking will not hinder us from seeing that you wretchedly delude your followers ; while you are your selves truly vncertain , whether any thing you teach them be true , and conscious that you are so . . and yet , tho' you have served us thus , you have a fetch to lay the blame upon me , for being harder to you than the laws of disputation are . i will have them , he says , prove two things more : first , that they are absolutely certain of all this. by the way , i take for granted , that by all this , you mean all which dr. st. affirm'd , which was all of which i desir'd proof . and secondly , not only this , but of all that more which our saviour taught his apostles . of this charge i own the first half . i did demand proof of absolute certainty , and that for all this ; and shall persist to demand it , till you shew me the disputation-law-book , which allows a disputant to say what he pleases , and chuse whether he will prove it or no when he has done . dr. stillingfleet did affirm , that you are absolutely certain ; and , absolutely certain that you now hold all the same doctrin that was taught by christ & his apostles . and of all this , all the laws of disputation that i ever read or heard of , warrant me to demand proof : and you shall permit me to believe there was something in the wind , besides those laws , which makes you decline to give it . i had been logician good enough , if you had known how to have prov'd . yes , but i make absolutely-certain and infallible all one . i make them all one ! why , all mankind made them so before i was born . take all the men who pretend to absolute certainty , and all the ways by which they pretend ; authority , demonstration , sense , experience , or what you will ; and see whether all mankind agree not , that when there is room for deceit , there is no absolute certainty ; and let a man pretend to be absolutely certain as much as he will , if he be , or may be deceiv'd , he will be but laught at for his pains , and not thought absolutely certain by any man in the world , no not by your reflecting self . and yet you would perswade us i break the laws of disputation by understanding that word as every body else does . certainly , you would make a pleasant law-maker for disputation : for when you have forbid us to understand words as others do , we could dispute no longer , nor so much as converse ; for there would be no knowing one anothers meaning . . but if i take that word ill , how must i do to take it well ? not to mistake a second time , i would be glad to know how your self take it , who to be sure take it right . but this you keep to your self ; and you have reason , if by absolutely certain you mean not absolutely certain , which i suspect is the true case ; and must be , unless you would have it mean nothing . otherwise , why might not we know what you will let it mean , if you will not let it mean what i and every body else think it does . since you leave me to my self , i shall , at the hazard of incurring again the penalties of your laws of disputation , venture to think that he , who will not suffer those who are absolutely certain to be infallible , will have them fallible ; that is , deceivable in that whereof they are absolutely certain ; and for ought they can tell , actually deceiv'd . and then he will have protestants believe that their religion is the same that is taught by christ , stand firm , and draw over to it as many as they can , and vex and persecute their neighbours whom they cannot ; prefer it before the unity of the church , and keep up differences in religion with as much jealous concern , as if the wall of division in the church were the only safe fence of the nation ; in a word , stake their souls and eternity upon it : when , all the while , he cannot absolutely tell whether it be true or no ; nay , knows he cannot . let him honestly tell protestants so ; and if they will venture persecution , and schism , and salvation on those terms , the fault is their own , and he has wash'd his hands : otherwise , he deludes them shamefully . if they waver , and stand upon security , they are told , they are absolutely certain , and this confirms them ; for it is as good security as heart can wish : but , when it comes to be sifted , it appears they may be deceiv'd for all their security ; and their absolutely-certain religion proves to be such as perhaps is arrantly false . in short , they have a bare sound to rely upon for their souls . call their security absolutely certain , and 't is good protestant doctrin ; but call it infallible , ( which is the same ) and 't is rank popery , and your protestants will none of it . and so , they may if they will , and must if they will continue to be of your principles , be content with sounds : but , if they will stand upon security from deceit , they must look for it where it is to be had : with all they can get here , it remains they may be deceiv'd . . the second-half of your charge is purely your own invention , and as pleasant an invention as ever roving fancy suggested . absolute certainty of protestant faith was turn'd by dr. st. to absolute certainty of scripture . since then , protestants believe more than that scripture is scripture , i said , they were to prove their absolute certainty of the more which they believ'd besides . you have taken such extraordinary pains to mistake me , as plainly as i exprest my self , that you fancy i would have them say they are thus certain of those points which they deny to be in scripture , and think them to be added by the council of trent , and which , therefore , they believe not . and these points you understand to be the more of which i demanded proof ; and so by your power in reflection , to desire proof of what they do believe , is to desire proof of what they do not believe : absolute certainty of what is their faith , is absolute certainty of what is not their faith ; and their not-faith is their more-faith . ridiculous folly ! to pretend we expected protestants should prove to us such points as they deny'd , and our selves held ; whence they could need no proof to us ; and if they needed any to others , it was certainly our proper duty , not theirs , to produce them . many , when they are hard put to it , have wav'd the consideration of shame , but 't is a sad thing utterly to renounce common sence too . yet , what is it you will not do ? what absurd pretences not lay hold of , rather than be brought to this odious and dangerous thing call'd proving ? you reflect out your paragraph with the h. scripture , the good men , who penn'd it , with the primitive church , and primitive creeds , and the council of trent , and this you call reflecting on my letter . . yet you set a good face on 't at p●r●ing , and tell us , you decline no proof that is incumbent on you ; as if it were not incumbent on you to prove what you say . you add , that we see by this time — as if there were any thing to be seen in all your reflections , but that they decline all proof , and that with the most aukward shifts in the world , as , because the council of trent had made a declaration concerning grace , p. . because a minister is as good a man as a priest , p. . because the infallibility and authority of the church of rome might run a risque , p. . because catholicks and protestants hit it not about judgment of discretion , ibid. because dr. tillotson is an excellent man , p. . because we will not dispense with the word [ absolute ] which was dr. st's , but will needs take it in its natural sense , and not admit of your no-sense of it , ibid. these and many other such weighty reflections have been our chief entertainment ; and yet your scrupulous modesty has the confidence to say you decline no proof that is incumbent on you , when you have incumb'd all the while , if that be the word , on nothing but throwing out baits to draw us from your incumbent proof , to other matters . you talk indeed of proof at last ; and that which you say of it , is , that you prove when you prove . moreover , you blame me for desiring proof of two things more ; whereof one is the very thing your selves have made the point to be prov'd , and the other i never desir'd you to prove at all . with this stuff you face it out , that you prove scripture to be the word of god ; which , if one should put you to it , you cannot ; and every article of your faith by the scripture ( common words , which every heretick may and does use ) ; when i have been all this while solliciting with all the earnestness i can , to know which way you can prove any article with absolute certainty by scripture ; and you will not tell me , and i am sure , cannot . though you have the confidence to say you do it , yet every body may perceive you know you cannot . for your very next words are , thus we prove we have sufficient certainty of our whole faith ; which is to say , you decline dr. st's absolute certainty , nor know of any way to prove more than sufficient certainty . and this sufficient certainty of yours may be no-certainty : for there goes no more to make a thing sufficient , than to make a man content with it . a yard of cloth will make a sufficient garment for him who is content to go half naked ; and a table without meat is a sufficient meal for him who is contented to fast . and so , as long as you can prevail with your protestants to be content without certainty , you can prove they have certainty abundantly sufficient , because no-certainty will suffice . marry , if they will insist upon having at least this sufficient certainty which you promise , i know not how you will do without weights and scales to weigh out your certainty , according to several mens exigencies , and make down-weight sufficient , except they will take your word ; for you have no more to give them even for so much : but , for absolute true certainty , the only certainty of which dr. stillingfleet spake and i demanded proof , they must absolutely excuse you . poor protestants , to be thus us'd ! that empty words and solemn outsides , and confident noise , should be offer'd to them for truth , and , which is more deplorable , pass upon them ! that they should not yet perceive they are but the stratagems of those no-principled men , who impose on them , and secretly laugh at them for their easiness ; and yet reflect not that they must answer one day with their souls , for suffering themselves to be so impos'd upon . . from your proving talent you pass to your answering talent ; and will try to answer a discourse of mine , in which there are but * five propositions . the first , [ god has left us some way to know surely what christ and his apostles taught . ] this you grant to be a certain truth : and so there is one step of our journey made . i think you grant the second too , not that you positively say i or no ; for that is too precise & dull a method for a man of your parts : but as plain truth seems always ridiculous to you ; you laugh at it for a foolish inference , because 't is so visibly in the antecedent . you are not aware i perceive , that your raillery is complement . to be contain'd in the antecedent , which you make the fault , is the praise of an inference ; without which it would indeed be good for nothing , or rather not be at all . for which way can an inference be drawn from an antecedent , in which it was not to be drawn ? would you have us draw wine out of an empty cask , or beer out of a jarr of oyl . again , the more we know the thing is where we would draw it , the surer our draught . but you seem to be so little acquainted with antecedents & inferences , that 't is no wonder ; by making them your sport , you make your self the sport of those who do understand them . in the mean time your laughing is owning that the inference is contain'd in the antecedent , and therefore certain , as you before own'd the antecedent was . and so we are another step onwards ; and might so forwards without stopping longer , if you could have let my proposition alone . but , you must needs be wording on 't your own way , to shew that either you did not understand it , or that you had a mind to inform us how neatly and dexterously you could change and pervert words , as well as answer . my words were : therefore this way must be such that they who take it , shall arrive by it at the end it was intended for ; that is , know surely what christ and his apostles taught . your words which you pretend equivalent to mine , are these : * [ if god has left us a way to know , then by that way we may know . ] pray sir , do you take my sence , or say what i do ? is shall know and may know all one ? i say that they who take the way left by god shall , that is , cannot chuse but know ; as he cannot chuse but draw a straight line , who draws it by a straight rule ; and he cannot chuse but come to london who goes on the right way thither : if either could miss , provided they draw by the rule , and travel on in the road ; the rule of the one is not straight , nor the way of the other right . and , so , i make account that the way to know the faith of christ , is not a right way , if those who take it can fail to know their faith ; and therefore not the way left by god. you barely say , we may know with which it consists we may not know ; and , so , you make us a way in which they who travel may be always out of the way ; which is well enough for a way of your making ; but it is certainly no way of god's making ; for it is plainly no way . but leaving this little tryal of your skill ; that which you say to my proposition ( unfalsifyed ) if you say any thing is , that 't is , indeed a little too visibly , but yet true , and so we may go on . . you preface to the third proposition with asking , who i dispute against ? and why if i would be thought to dispute against you , i do not use such and such terms ? two very pleasant questions ! your own and my title page tell as many as see them that i am disputing against d. of paul's ; and yet you stand enquiring after the secret again , to ask why i do not use terms to your mind , is to ask why the defendant does not go to the plaintiff to draw his answer . you shall excuse me from being beholding to you , if you please ; till you have a better knack at making arguments , for your self , you shall make none for me , by my consent . but , where lyes the quarrel ? you do not sure expect i should write to your liking ; and if you think i speak not against you , and your party , you need not trouble your self with what i say . what does not touch you , cannot hurt you ; so you may say concedo totum , and rest secure by being unconcern'd . yet you speak at last , and not till then , to purpose ; when you bear the reader in hand i pack the cards , and you will play fair ; 't is that must carry the cause , or nothing . to get the readers affection on his side much imports him , who has nothing but such little rhetorical tricks to trust to . . but , as if i had not the gift of prophesy to foresee with what a kind of man i should have to do , i happen'd to propose first what i intended to prove , before i went about to prove it , which i thought was the clearest way . you at a venture take what comes first , and tho' you saw it was my conclusion which i inferr'd from the following proposition , will needs speak to it before you speak to the premises . this has so blunder'd all things , that the reader will not easily perceive what we are doing . i shall thefore , ( as you should have done ) mind only the proof here , and reserve the inference till we come to the place where i made it . i put then to be prov'd that [ scripture's letter interpretable by private iudgements is not that way ] viz. the way left by god ; and for my proof that [ we experience presbyterians and socinians , for example , both take that way [ of private interpretation ] viz. and yet differ in such high fundamentals as the trinity and godhead of christ. ] . you , before you answer , would have it thought you might ridicule me in my own language . never spare me , good sir , nor balk your mirth for me if i give a just occasion : but where lies the jest ? why , i quarrell'd with dr. st. for bringing an instance , and now bring one my self : if this be all , i shall be tempted to be merry in my turn . i told dr. st. he might undoubtedly have produc't his instance if he had been arguing , but minded him that his turn was then to answer , and that his instance was not an answer , but a new argument . and yet this is not plain enough for you to see that i faulted not the instance , but the unseasonable argument , as i should any other in such circumstances ; and you would have it ridiculous in me who am arguing to do what i only excepted against , because he was not arguing ; and freely acknowledg'd he might do , if he had been to argue . sure you were in a pleasant humour , when you thought of turning me into ridicule , because your self understood not where the stress lay , tho' it were never so plainly told you . but to let this pass , as you say , with your causelesly gleeking reflections upon scripture and tradition , what say you to the proof i bring ? . why , the force of my argument ( say you ) is this : if any men can be found who wrest or misinterpret scripture , then can it not be the way to know what christ and his apostles taught . one thing after another , if it please you . talk of the force of my argument as much as you will , but , e're you leave the proposition before you , of the presbyterians and socinians , 't is but fair to grant or deny it . i must intreat you too to leave translating my arguments . they are new yet , and need no mending ; when they do , i will be better satisfied of your skill in the trade , before i become your customer . by your next words , rallying against the validity of the consequence , i guess you grant the antecedent ; and so , that care being over , we have nothing but the consequence to mind . the dispute would fall in more properly under the next proposition which infers the consequent ; but now i am here , i will hear what you say , before i pass farther . you say then , that indeed this argument proves nothing , but that i have no good opinion of the scripture . will this venomous cant never be left ? i think the scripture too good and too sacred to be abus'd by wrong interpretations , and labour to preserve it from them : you labour to keep it expos'd to that abuse ; pray , which of us two have a better opinion and more reverence for the scripture ? you proceed : must a rule be no good rule , because some who use it misunderstand it and abuse it ? what may you mean by this ? i take my ruler , and draw a line by it ; does the straightness or crookedness of this line depend upon my vnderstanding ? what is 't then you call misunderstanding a rule ? if you make the letter of scripture the rule , and so private interpreting the vsing it , or drawing the line , and the sense the line drawn ; unriddle to us , if you can , how the sense drawn from the letter can any more fail to be true , than the line drawn by the rule to be straight ; and which way that sense can be misunderstood ; and how the rule can be a good rule if it be us'd , and the sense to which it is a rule be misunderstood ? or , do you mean perhaps that 't is with the scripture as with a grammar-rule ; where he who understands not what 't is for a nominative case and a verb to agree , may make false construction , and yet the rule be a good rule . tho' you should go thither for your notion of a rule , we should be but where we were . for , as the grammar-rule , let it be never so ill understood , will make good construction in case it be us'd ; so the scripture-rule , if it be , as you put it , us'd , must needs produce right sense . but the truth is , a grammar-rule is not a rule till it be understood ; for he who understands not what 't is for cases and verbs to agree , has no rule to make them agree : and , then , if you will make the letter of scripture such a rule , you will make the letter first understood to be the rule of understanding it , and people misunderstand what they understand , and the misunderstood rule be a rule , which is only a rule by being understood . in short , turn it which way you will , you will ( to borrow an expression ) be much beholden to the reader to make sense of what you say . . you question on ; must a way be a wrong way , because some that take it will not keep it ? riddle my riddle again . pray , who are or can be those some who take it and will not keep it ? as long as they take it , they keep it , i think ; and they keep it not against their wills sure . he who has no will to keep it , may when he pleases go out of it , but then he does no longer take it , and is none of the some of whom the question speaks , ( for they all take it ) and so we have nothing to do with him . when all is done , the will here is to no more purpose than the vnderstanding before : for he who takes the way , shall certainly arrive at his journeys end , let him will what he pleases , and the way must needs be a wrong way if he do not . 't is great pity you are not in the right ; you would save more men than the benefit of their clergy : for the thief in a cart , upon the way to tyburn , would never come there if willing not to keep that way would keep him from it . but by affirming that some take the way who yet will not keep it , you affirm that some do and do not take it . and so dr. st. is well holp up with a reflecter , who imagins we are talking of one , who only takes the way at first , and afterwards leaves it ; whereas 't is plain , the argument proceeds of such as make the way their choice , and persist to follow no other to their lifes end. . lastly , you tell us , that till it be prov'd god has left such a way or rule , as no man can possibly err out of it , mistake it , or abuse it , &c. for you must permit me to stop by the way , i am too short breath'd to run over the long period at a loose . but , let you alone to make all sure : you are safe enough if all must go on your side , till some body prove to you that no man can err out of the way left by god , mistake or abuse it ; that is , till some body prove that ways are prisons out of which there is no escaping ; or that the man cannot possibly fall into errour who is out of the way to truth . as many as leave the catholick church , leave the way left by god ; and you , like a right pleasant man , would have it prov'd , that the thing cannot possibly be done which we see is done by millions ; and would have us , who say , they all do err and mistake , prove they cannot . all this while i a little suspect you mean otherwise than you say ; and that by your words , errour , and mistake , and abuse of the way , you understand missing the end of the way , truth . but let us see what you will make of it : what would you have prov'd next ? why that it is not enough that god has left us such a way or rule , as men may understand and observe if they be not wanting to themselves . what do you call being wanting to themselves ? i understand how a man that will not travel , or leaves a right and takes a wrong way , is wanting to himself : but he who puts himself upon the way , continues on in it , and changes not his road , is not wanting to himself in any thing i can imagin , which belongs to the way : and the way of this traveller i maintain against you , has not enough to be a way , if it barely may , and yet may not , bring him to his journeys end. what will this come to at last ? why , till these things be prov'd , it will not follow , that the scripture's letter , in the sense you have own'd it , is not the way , tho' not only presbyterians and socinians , but the greater number of mankind should own it , and yet differ about fundamental points contain'd in it . what you call the sense which you own of the letter of scripture , will come by and by . but will not that follow which you say here will not ? will it not follow , that the way by which a man that goes in it comes to errour , is not the way to truth ? will it not follow , that he who at his journeys end finds himself at york , did not go the way to london ? pray , what 's the way to a place ? is it not that passage that he who has past it , finds himself at that place ? and so the way to know the doctrin of christ and his apostles , is it not the means which he who has us'd knows that doctrin ? why then , since presbyterians and socinians both interpret by their private judgments , and one side knows not the doctrin of christ , it follows as unavoidably , that the way of private interpretation is no sure way to know it , as that he who has gone through the strand , and finds himself at charing cross , has not gone the way to moorfields ; that is , as certainly as that a way is a way or means to bring a man to such a place . . what do you talk then of erring for , and mistaking and abusing the way ? or what do you mean ? 't is true , those erring men do mistake the true way , and for that reason err . but they mistake not the way which you say is the true way . they do interpret by their private judgment , and so take , not mistake it ; use , not abuse it . sure you mean that they mistake the doctrin of christ ; and , so , by mistaking the way , you very wisely understand mistaking the end. and then , what a man are you to contend their way is a way , and a sure way too , to bring them to the knowledge of christ's doctrin , when they pursue it and are not brought to that knowledge ? and what eyes have you who perceive not that therefore it cannot be a sure way ? again , to what purpose do you tell us that men may understand and observe ( as if observing concern'd our question of knowing ) if they be not wanting to themselves ? when they who take a right way , not only may , but must , and cannot possibly fail of coming whither it leads , any more than the man who goes down the strand , of coming to charing-cross ; and when men have no more to do with a way , but to travel in it ; and so cannot be wanting to themselves , in that respect if they do . of the same batch is your misunderstanding and not keeping the way . as if they who interpret by their private judgments did not keep the way of interpreting by private judgments . and tho' their understandings be none of the best when they take that for the sure way to understand by , yet that very misunderstanding is their understanding it to be the way ; and so they , even in your opinion , misunderstand not the way , however they misunderstand by it . in fine , you amuse us with a company of vvords , which have a sound ; but either no sense at all , or none to purpose : and it remains , that , because a way must bring every one that takes it to the end of that way ; and private interpretation does not bring socinians to the sure knowledge of christs doctrine , which is the end ; that , therefore private interpretation of scripture is not a way to know that doctrine surely . . and yet you can bear us in hand that this follows no more than it follows that because we see men misinterpret and break good laws daily , therefore those laws are vnintelligible , or cannot be kept , and must be thought insufficient to shew them what the law-giver expects from them . what breaking and keeping the laws is brought in for , you best know that bring them in . our discourse is only about knowing the doctrin of faith , and not at all about living up to it ; and so has nothing to do with those who know , but will not keep the laws , as is the case of most malefactors . but you end your discourse well i must needs say , and very sutably to all the rest , with an instance directly against your self . you see that laws left to private interpretation are , by all mankind , judg'd insufficient , and publick interpreters therefore set up every where ; and , from the parity with them which are insufficient , you conclude the letter of scripture is not insufficient . any body but your self would have made another use of this instance . as god can write much plainer than men , when he thinks fit , and has more care of their salvation than they of their temporal concerns ; another man would have concluded that god did not intend their salvation should depend on the privately-interpretable letter of the divine law , which he left less plain than men made the letter of humane laws . but you , it seems , had a mind to make your discourse all of a piece . the best is , 't is now ended , & we are free to pass on to the fourth proposition . to which , because the force of exceptions against an inference before it be inferr'd appears not so well , i reserve what you say against it , while i put it only to be prov'd . . it is this , therefore scriptures letter interpretable by private iudgments is not the way left by god to know surely what christ and his apostles taught , or surely to arrive at right faith. and now i must look to my self , for you pour out here your distinguishing talent upon me . if , say you , by scripture's letter , he means unsensed characters , then i confess scriptures letter cannot be the rule or way . there is one branch of your distinction ; and so the other , unless you will talk non-sense , must needs be , scripture's letter , meaning sensed characters , can be or is the rule . your words are , yet if he can think it reasonable to allow as much to the scripture as he expects we should allow to this letter of his , that it contains good sence exprest in words significant and intelligible ; we deny his assumption that scripture's letter is not this way . as you have this art , among the rest , to talk unintelligibly , when you have a mind to 't , in very plain english , i wish some body would tell me for you , whether you take scripture's letter in this period for unsensed or sensed characters ; for truly i cannot tell my self . by the terms you put [ intelligible ] and [ significant ] one would guess you mean unsensed characters ; for [ intelligible ] imports what may be understood , but is not yet ; and [ significant ] what may be perceived by the sign , whether it be or no. and then you have made a fair hand of it with your fair dealing , who distinguish the word [ letter ] into characters unsensed and characters unsensed ; and grant it to be a rule in one of the two same meanings , and deny it in the other . but you shall talk sense for me , and mean characters sensed ; and then le ts see how much you have mended the matter . a character sensed signifies a character with the sense joined to it : the sense of the characters of scripture is the sense of god , and the sense of god is that which we are to believe . and , so , scripture-characters sensed ; signify faith it self in conjunction with those characters . now faith is the end to which we are looking for a way to carry us . to tell us then that scripture's letters taken for sensed characters is this way , is to tell us that the end is the way to it self ; that the means to get faith is to have it first ; that , when we know it , we know it ; that , when we are at our journeys end , we are in the direct road to it , and such fine things , which would tempt a man not very fond of disputing , to leave it off and betake himself to some other business : for how can you or any think fit to vex poor controversy all your life , when your very sense proves non-sense ? and yet it is not that you have not serv'd a prentiship long enough in the mystery : but the best shoemaker in the world cannot make a good shoe of bad leather . . yet , as you are not a man to be discourag'd with ill success , you are at your distinctions again ; and tell us that , if by these words , interpretable by private judgments , i mean the scripture any way interpretable , as any private man may possibly wrest the words to make them comply with his own sentiments , or through ignorance , and laziness , and neglect of such helps and means as are fit to be us'd , may misunderstand them , i must have a very bad conscience , &c. as if the question were about my conscience . but you would say , i suppose that scripture , so meant , is not the way , and i say it is not too . pray , what conscience is yours , if mine be bad when i say as you do ? but if my meaning be , that scripture as it may be understood by a private man of a competent iudgment , using such helps as are proper , is not the way , you again deny my assumption . because it would render the discourse unintelligibly confus'd to repeat so many lines at every turn , i shall , with your good leave ; say in short , good and bad judgments ; understanding by the bad all the qualifications of the first branch , and all of your second by the good. i take you then to say that scripture's letter , as interpretable by bad judgments is not the way ; but , as interpretable by good judgments is the way . by this account three parts in four of mankind at a modest computation , have no vvay . for so many bad judgments there are at least . but , the main point is , while we are enquiring which the way is which god has left , pray what have we to do with the iudgments of men ? can they make or unmake it ? or does it depend on them to be or not be the way he left , as they happen to be different ? it is a vvay only so long as good judgments travel in it , and ceases to be a vvay assoon as bad judgments come upon it . a way , i think , is a vvay whether it be beaten by the lusty or the lame , the pur-blind or the well-sighted . and , so if the letter of scripture , interpretable by private judgments , be the way which god has left us , 't is not the goodness or badness of private judgments which can make it not the way . wherefore , tho' you have chopt upon a distinction for which we are beholden to you , for we might chance else not to have minded there are good and bad judgments in the world ; yet your distinction unluckily has no relation at all to the question . nevertheless , it serves for talk and show , and bids fair to draw us from thinking what 't is we are about , to wrangling about how much brains go to a competent iudgment , how much pains to diligence , and such very useful disputes : which , if you had any , was in likelihood your design . for sure you cannot but see your self , that your distinction is no more to our purpose than news from hungary or the morea . . again , your first branch says that bad judgments may misunderstand the letter of scripture , and that it is not the way to such ; which i think is to say , that it is not the way for that reason ; for you do not , and i suppose , will not say that they may not understand it right , if luck serve , let them be never so bad ; but , because they may misunderstand it , therefore it is not the way . why then the very reason you give why it is not the way in your first branch , bars you from making it a way in your second . for all you say of your competent and assisted judgment , is , that they may understand it right ; which is not denying , if it be not owning , they may likewise understand it wrong . and then , you may unriddle to us when you can , how the bad judgment , which may misunderstand it , makes it no way , and the good makes it a way , which may misunderstand it too . you are strangely partial to good iudgments , to make the possibility to misunderstand scripture's letter exclude the bad and admit the good ; and the possibility to understand it right , include the good and shut out the bad. thus men have , or have not a way as they find favour with you , and as you like their judgments . as far as i see , your favour is all in all . for , since you make the letter of scripture a way to good , but not to bad judgments , there is no knowing when it is and when it is not the way , till we know which must pass for good , and which for bad judgments : and so nothing can come of it till we have a test to try them . now , i am much afraid that your own judgment is , like bayes his play , your only test ; and that you make account all goes right as long as people think as you do . marry , if they chance to deviate from you , they lose their iudgments , or their diligence , or their proper helps , or something , and stop up their way with their own faults . there is no doing here without scales again to weigh out the brains which go to a competent iudgment , the pains which go to diligence , and the rest . otherwise , we have lost scripture ; and , for our comfort , get your word instead of it . for , if scripture interpretable by a competent judgment be our way , and yours be a competent judgment ( which no doubt you suppose as your first principle ) 't is a plain case that your iudgment is our way ; which in truth is the sum of all . so long as we will believe as you would have us , we shall have the most magnificent words in the world , for our souls . we shall all have competent iudgments from nature , and proper helps from grace . we shall ( as many as will stand upon 't ) have absolute certainty , nay infinitely greater certainty than reason can afford , the word of god. but , all is to be understood with the condition annext of trusting you for all . otherwise we have neither diligence , nor iudgment , nor helps , nor certainty , nor word of god , nor any thing in the world but your word ; who yet cannot for your life make any three words you say hang handsomely together . . but i have stray'd after your will-of-the-wisp till i have almost lost sight of our point . the question is , whether scripture's letter interpretable by private iudgments be the way left by god. i maintain it is not ; and prove it , because men who take that way err . for , i thought it needed no proving , that the way left by god is not the way to errour . you distinguish twice ; first the letter into sensed and vns●nsed characters ; that is , if you make there any distinction at all . now the proposition is of the letter interpretable , that is , not yet interpreted , or which has not yet the sense put to it , and so is yet unsensed . when you then distinguish the letter interpretable , into sensed and vnsensed , you make a distinction , whereof one branch is not comprehended in the notion to be divided . 't is just the same as to distinguish learned men into learned and vnlearned ; or men into negroes and horses . your second distinction is , of iudgments , into competent and incompetent , which is twin to the former . i vouch't for proof the presbyterians and socinians ; men of very competent judgments ; and who are neither ignorant , nor lazy , nor negligent , nor baulk any means or helps , which they judge can enable them to understand the letter , or that you have , except that , for a spiritual guide ( which , i suppose , is one of the helps ) they in likelihood use the assistance of some body of their own , not of your perswasion . but if one of your protestant guides be a proper help to your protestant , a socinian sure is proper to a socinian . in short , they fall under none of your ill qualifications , and when i speak of competent and qualify'd judgments , you distinguish the competent into some which are competent , and some which are not competent ; and , again , the qualify'd , into those which are , and those which are not qualify'd . the sum is this , i ask whether the vnsensed letter be the way ; and you answer , the sensed letter is ; that is , the end is part of the way to the end. i propose you competent iudgments , and ask if the letter be a way to them , and you reply , it is not a way to the incompetent . and so you , who , good squeamish gentleman , fall into a scruple at the very name of cards , can play at cross-purposes all along very freely , even when souls are at stake . i desire you to remember that i speak of a way , which they who take , shall , and that surely , arrive at christ's faith. you talk of a way by which men so and so qualify'd , may arrive at it . as if may be were any thing to shall and must be ; or the qualifications of travellers any thing to the way . i * foretold i should have nothing but an unconcerning return for an answer : and you have made me , tho' against my will , prophesie ; not bating so much of my prediction as the scornful iest. for there is the mountain and the mouse , and reading a lecture in logick to verifie it . . you conclude with an argument against my conclusion : you , i say , who are answering , and have nothing to do with arguing . but , what would we have ? men who are uneasie will alwaies be shifting places . all our earnest sollicitations could not wring one argument out of you when it was your turn to prove ; and now 't is your turn to answer , you thrust your arguments upon us unbidden . nor is there any keeping you from falling into the same fault with your suppositions , that dr. st. did with his instance . you suppose then . that the scripture is god's word . and so do i too , provided you mean the true sense of it . for a false sense , whatever you think , is , in my judgment , not god's word . . that it was written to be understood . undoubtedly ; but not by every one , barely by means of the letter . all books are written to be understood : grammar , for children to understand construction ; mathematical books for those who will understand mathematicks ; and yet those books without masters will make but few grammarians or mathematicians . . that it is written for the instruction of private men. yes , but not for the only , or sufficient means of their instruction , barely by the letter . . that they are concern'd to understand it . yes again ; and as much concern'd not to misunderstand it . . that they may believe and live as it directs . they not onely may , but ought . but , pray remember , that it directs no believing or living according to a false sense . . that they have means left them of god for the vnderstanding of it , so far as it is of necessary concernment to them . yes , and that absolutely certain means , the publick interpretation of the church or tradition . . and that , using those means as they ought they may understand it . never mince it with may ; they shall and certainly shall understand it who use those means . from all you conclude at last . and thus it is to them the way to know surely what christ and his apostles taught as necessary to their salvation . how ! the way to those who use those means ! why this is just as i say . but what becomes of those who use not those means ? 't was ill forgot when your hand was in at supposing , not to suppose in amongst the rest , that private interpretation is the means lest by god for understanding scripture . for , if publick interpretation be those means , as it needs must , since i have prov'd that private is not ; the scripture plainly is no way to those who only rely on the private means to understand it . and your protestants are much beholding to your argument which shews that scripture , interpreted , as they interpret it , by private iudgment , is no way to them . and i were very unreasonable if i should take offence at your challenge , which bids me shew , when i can , that your suppositions are vnreasonable or false . not i , believe me ; for i should be very cross-natur'd to fall out with a man who takes my part . . thus you have try'd * as you call it , to answer my argument ; and have succeeded ( even in your own judgment , i guess ) very sorrily . for had you been confident of your performance against it as it is , you would never have thought of changing it , as you do here p. . men who have put by a thrust are not sollicitous to instruct their adversary how he should have thrust . and yet you will needs be teaching me , how i should have done to have made sure work ; that is , to have been sure to hit your buckler . i mean not to lose time on your argument . it were ridiculous for me to amuse my self with what never was nor will be said by any but your self . no body else would have left out the principal consideration , using the rule , and , so , coming to right faith by using it . as if a rule would make a line of it self , tho' no body draw by it : and a way bring to the journeys end ; even those who travel not in it . in a word , your argument has all the faults of your answer in short ; and onely shews you can speak from the purpose more solemnly and methodically , by way of syllogism . . after you had thus nobly acquitted your self in answering my short discourse , you proceed in the same method to answer mr. g's argument for the infallibility of the catholick church . which , e're i come to examin , i must first say something to your preliminaries . . you doubt whether i think it needs any proof that the church of rome is infallible . to those who reflect on the force of a vast human testimony , attesting notorious matter of fact , and what assent it claims from human nature in parallel occasions , i do indeed judge it does not so much need proof as reflection . but , why should i think it needs no proof against you ; who , we see plainly , have interpreted your selves out of your natural sentiments ? your reason , sir , because i say 't is in vain to talk against one infallibility , without setting up another . now it * has been demonstrated to you , and never yet answered , that infallibility and certainty are the same ; and nature tells us , that all discourse supposes something certain , otherwise it may run on endlesly , and so nothing can ever come to be concluded . how is it possible then to discourse against infallibility , or any thing else , without setting up and proceeding upon something that is certain , or infallibly true ? by your constant jesting whenever infallibility comes in the way , you discover your anger against it , because you know you can produce nothing that is truly certain , to ground your faith. notwithstanding the vulgar use to say commonly , [ i am infallibly certain of such a thing ] yet none laughs at them or thinks them extravagant : and must we be afraid to use the same language in our controversie , because your ears are so tender , or rather your grounds so soft , they cannot bear it ? if you will needs declare against infallible certainty , be but so candid as to say still you are fallibly certain , and see how your readers will smile at your folly : and yet you ought to own one or the other , if you be certain at all ; for there can be no third or middle sort of certainty , which is neither fallible or infallible . pray speak to this point , and let 's have a little reason from you at least , and not perpetual rambling and shuffling . how can you justifie your selves , that you are not deserters of human nature , by affirming ( or at least supposing ) there is no infallibility ( that is , true certainty ) to be found amongst men ? betrayers of christian faith , while you leave it all capable to be a lye ; nay , maintain the full sense of that wicked position [ all christian faith is possible to be false ] in discourses directly fram'd for that set-purpose ! blasphemers of god's providence , in declaring and asserting that he has left less certain grounds for faith , and consequently for the salvation of mankind , for which the world was created , and god himself dy'd , than he has for other things of a trifling importance ! will it expiate for those crimes , to talk cantingly here of an infallible and living god , and his giving us his word by men endu'd with an infallible spirit ; sayings fit to take the good women that are much pleas'd with godly talk in a sermon , but frivolous in our controversie ! who ever question'd that god was living or infallible ; or that he has left us an infallible word ? the only question is , whether you can settle for others , or have your self , any absolutely-certain way to know the sence of that word which this infallible god has left us . you tell us indeed 't is plainly written : but that 's the question still , and the point we deny ; and for which we are continually demanding your proof , and such a one as may confute our daily experience , assuring us , that 't is not plain to private iudgments . yet this only important point , you only name , then slide over it and retreat to your old refuge , that weak insignificant pretence of sufficient certainty , ( by which , i suppose , you mean a certainty that is neither infallible nor fallible ) and tell your people , if they will take your word against their own experience , the plainness of it ( for 't is that must give them this security ) secures them from being dangerously deceiv'd ; then , as 't is but fitting , follow again of course [ in things necessary to salvation ] and [ using the proper helps ] which ( as we shall see anon ) will cost one's life to peruse ; and this you tell us , encourages them to take pains to be well assur'd of the truth . fine words , i must confess , if they had any sense ! is it such a rare encouragement to take pains to be well assur'd their faith is true , when you tell them , that after all their pains they can never be satisfied , but it may be false ; that is , they can never be satisfy'd that it is true ? but , when all 's done , and the certainty of your grounds fail you , your last refuge is , that the same infallible god who has given the means , has assur'd his blessing to them that diligently use them . but this begs the question : for , if the rule you follow be not the means ordain'd by god to arrive at faith , you have neither the right means , nor can you be assur'd of any blessing by using them ; unless you can prove god has promis'd his assistance to those that use not the means he appointed ; or will certainly direct those to the right place who take the wrong way to it . next , you fall into a wonderment to hear me talk of mens being discourag'd — for want of an infallible guide . and i wonder you should hear me talk what i never spoke . not one syllable was there of a guide : all my discourse was about an infallible rule . but the truth is , you are sick of any discourse that sifts the uncertainty of your rule ; and therefore car'd not what new pretence you started , nor whether it were a false or true one , so you could but get the dispute transferr'd to another subject . yet , upon this false pretence you run on with your raillery to the end of the section . . but , at last you have found infallibility in tradition , after you have been sent from place to place to seek it . pray , sir , who sent you ? we , with whom you are discoursing , never directed you to any other , but to that of tradition : and you know well , and every reader sees , we are treating of no infallibility , but only that . yet you triumph mightily , you have found a thing which was proffer'd to you unsought : and found it at last , which was both propos'd to you and urg'd upon you at first . what an everlasting trifler are you , to confess to your reader you have been running after butterflies all this while , and could not once turn your eye to the question which was just before you , nay prest upon you ! well , but what are my * words ? [ the certainty of scripture is from tradition . ] do you deny this ? no , you positively assert it , first letter , p. . let 's proceed . [ therefore there is no refusing to admit , that tradition causes certainty . ] do you deny this ? how can you without destroying the certainty of your own rule [ scripture ] which depends upon it , and withal contradicting your self ? i added , [ and makes faith as certain as scripture . ] can you deny this ? that is , will you affirm the same virtue does not work the same effect if the matter be capable ? let 's see now how you answer . yet it may be this certainty comes not up to infallibility . yes , it does ; for the certainty here spoken of was absolute certainty , as was twice insisted on immediately before , from your own words , p. . and i * prov'd it was the same with infallibility which you have never disprov'd ; and so , unless you give a better answer , your own acknowledgment that tradition causes absolute certainty , forces you to grant we are infallibly certain of our faith. but say * you , the tradition for scripture was more vniversal : suppose it so , was not tradition for doctrin large enough to cause absolute certainty ! or , are not ten millions of attesters as able to cause absolute certainty as twenty ? pray , consider a little the vertue of witnessing authority , and the force it has upon human nature . when the number comes to that pitch , that it is seen to be impossible they should all be deceiv'd in the thing they unanimously attest , or conspire to deceive us , their testimony has its full effect upon us , and begets in us that firm and unalterable assent we call absolute certainty ; and the addition of myriads more adds nothing to the substance of that assent , since it was wrought without it . but the main is , you quite misunderstand the nature of a long successive testimony . let ten thousand men witness what two or three , who were the original attestors of a thing , said at first , and twenty thousand more witness in the next age what those ten thousand told them , and so forwards , yet ( taking them precisely as witnesses ) they amount to no more , in order to prove the truth of that thing , than the credit of those two or three first witnesses goes . 't is the first source of a testimony , which gives the succeeding ones all their weight to prove the thing that is witnest to be true : 't is that from which the largeness and firmness of a testimony , brought to evince the truth of any thing , is to be measured or calculated . since then the stream of tradition for doctrin had for its source innumerable multitudes of those christians in the first age , in many places of the world , who heard the apostles preach it , and saw them settle the practice of it in the respective churches ; but the original testifiers that such a book was writ by such or such an apostle or evangelist , were very few in comparison , sometimes perhaps not past two or three : it cannot with any shew of sense be pretended , that the tradition for the several books of scripture is in any degree comparable in either regard to the tradition for doctrin . your next answer is , that this vniversal tradition is no more but human testimony , and that can be no ground for infallibility which excludes all possibility of errour . pray why not ! if things were so order'd ( as indeed they are that the testifiers could neither be deceiv'd in the doctrin , being bred and brought up to it ; nor conspire to deceive us , in telling the world in any age that the new doctrin they had invented was immediately delivered ; then it was not possible any errour could come in , under the notion of a doctrin delivered from the beginning . but is not your tradition for scripture human testimony too ? and if that can be erroneous , may not all christian faith by your principles be perhaps a company of lying stories ? you must be forc'd by your own words here to confess it ; but i dare say , your parishioners , should you openly avow it , would hate you for the blasphemy . you would tell them , i doubt not , as you do us , that moral certainty is enough to stand on such a foundation : that is , such a certainty as may deceive you , and , by a necessary consequence , may haste to overturn the whole fabrick of christian faith. in the mean time let 's see how manifestly you contradict dr. st. when you should defend him . he avow'd * absolute certainty for the book of scripture , and this upon the foundation of tradition ; and you tell us here tradition can ground but moral certainty : now all the world , till you writ , counter distinguisht absolute and moral certainty , which you jumble in one . but distinct they ever were , are , and shall be ; for the word [ moral ] signifies a diminution or imperfection of certainty , and [ absolute ] plainly expresses the perfection of it : whence 't is evident , that either you contradict dr. st. ( perhaps not without his private order ) or he himself . we shall have all words shortly lose their signification , for no other reason , but to give you room to shift this way and that , when you are too close prest with reason . . now , since dr. st. had granted , that tradition is absolutely certain for scripture , and i had prov'd that absolute certainty was the same with infallibility , what should hinder me from inferring , that unless some special difficulty be found in other things that light into the same channel , it must bring them down infallibly too ? your gifts of interpretation expounds these words of mine thus : these other things are things unwritten in that holy book . i do assure you , sir , you are mightily mistaken . i never told you yet that all faith was not contain'd in scripture explicitly or implicitly . what i meant was , that the whole body of christs doctrin ; ( and not only that such a book was scripture , ) nay the self-same doctrin of faith that is contain'd in scripture , comes down by tradition , or the churche's testimony . but with this difference , ( as to the manner of it , ) among others , that the church that testifies it , having the sense of it in her breast , can explain her meaning so as to put it out of all question to learners , doubters and enquirers ; which the scripture cannot . whence we need not fish for our faith in the channel of tyber , as your great wit tells us ; st. peter's ship , ( the church ) that caught so many fishes at first , ( the body of primitive christians , who were the first deliverers of christ's doctrin , ) hath stor'd up provision enough for the succession of faith to the worlds end . there we find it to our hands . 't is your sober enquirers who fish for it among dead unsensed characters , and in the lake of geneva ; from whence to save the labour of going thither , you and your friends are deriving a great channel to run into thames , over-swell it's banks , and drown all the churches . lacus lemanus is your tyber , geneva your rome , and iohn calvin ( the prime of your new apostles ) your st. peter . . all this is but prelude : but , now comes mr. g's argument , and therefore we are to expect now , however you but trifled hitherto , more pertinent & close discourse . the first proposition was this : all traditionary christians believe the same to day they did yesterday , & so up to the time of our b. saviour . this you seem to deny in regard they may perhaps be so call'd from their adhereing to a tradition which reaches not so high as our saviours time , but only pretends to it , whither we only pretend to it or no will be seen hereafter , when the fourth proposition comes to be examin'd . in the mean time pray jumble not two questions which are distinct , and ought to be kept so . the whole business here is about the use or sense of the word [ traditionary ] & how we both take it in our present controversy . now that we both agree in the notion of [ tradition , ] whence [ traditionary ] is deriv'd , is evident by this , that we lay claim to such a tradition as reaches to christ , and go about to prove it ; you deny our claim , and endeavour to disprove it : but 't is evident you deny the same thing to us which we lay claim to ; otherwise we should not talk of the same thing , and so should not understand one another , nor could discourse together ; wherefore 't is manifest we both agree in the notion or meaning of that word , however we disagree in the application of it to the persons . nor do we pretend in the least , what you would put upon us here , to inferr hence that this body of christians that now adheres to it , did always so ; but only contend , that if they did not ever adhere to it , they must have deserted it and taken up another rule , and so , cease to be true claimers of a tradition from christ , or traditionary christians . moreover , we judge we have right to lay claim to it , till we be driven out of it by a former and better title ; since we were in possession of this rule at the time of the reformation , or held all our faith upon that tenure . . the second proposition is this : if they follow this rule they can never err in faith. whence follows the third ; [ and therefore they are infallible . ] your answer sir , to this . can they adhere still to what was deliver'd , and yet err in faith , if what was still deliver'd , was christ's doctrin . your answer is ; his friend tells us this is palpably self-evident . and does not his adversary confess it too ? do not your self acknowledge it in your st , and d. pages , and say you must lay by your reason , turn romanist , and renounce your private iudgment , if you did not grant it . and can the reader , so well acquainted with your shuffles , judge it less than palpably self-evident , which your humour , so restiff to grant any thing , tho' never so clearly prov'd , is forc't to yield to . lastly , does his friend only tell you 't is self-evident ? does not he prove it to be as evident as 't is that the same is the same with it self ? and is not such a thing evident by its own light , or out of the very terms , that is , self-evident ? pray , sir , when i prove any thing , let the reader know i did so ; and do not thus constantly pretend still that i only said so , or told you so . a pretty stratagem to avoid speaking to my proofs ; but how honest let the reader judge . . but , say you , unless this tradition be longer than it is yet prov'd to be , they may follow it , and err all along in following it . no doubt of it ; if it fall short of reaching up to christs , we may follow it , and err by following it , as all hereticks do in following their novel traditions . that ( yet ) is a very pretty word ; for it puts the reader into a conceit that we have produc't nothing from the beginning of the world , to the very time of your writing , to prove our tradition reaches to our saviours dayes ; and yet , if we challenge you that we have prov'd it in the very next words of our argument , you can make your escape , by saying , that you are not yet come to speak to that point , and that you meant no more . who would think there should be such vertue in a petty monosyllable , as at once to disgrace us , and save you harmless ! the second answer to this point is , let it ( the tradition spoken of ) be never so long , yet if they follow it not , they may err . very good ! the arguers words are , if they follow this rule they cannot err in faith ; which implies , that , if they do not , they may err : and you say the self-same over again , with an ayr of opposition , and there 's an answer for us now . as if to conform to your adversaries words were to confute him , any thing will serve , rather than say nothing . . the fourth proposition brought to prove that this tradition we lay claim to , does indeed reach to christ and his apostles , is this , they could not innovate in faith , unless they did forget what they held the day before , or out of malice alter it . and here lies the main stress of the controversy between us ; for you have granted here , page . . that were this rule follow'd , they must still enjoy the same faith christ and his apostles taught ; and this discourse is brought to shew they did follow it . we are to expect then that your choicest engines must be set on work to baffle a proof , which , if it holds ; brings such dangerous consequences after it , and indeed concludes the whole controversy . your first attempt is in plain terms most evident , & a most unconscionable falsification . after you had ( p. . ) recited this fourth proposition , you immediately add . our author undertakes to make this out more clearly , & therefore we will hear what he saith for our better information . p. . he asks , did christ teach any errours ? and so you go on reciting that whole argument , which proves , that if the first fathers believ'd what christ taught , and the succeeding sons all along believ'd what their fathers did , the last-born son in the world believ'd the same that christ taught . pray , sir , play fair above-board . you have directly falsify'd that whole discourse , by pretending here that the words you cite were to make out that fourth proposition clearly , ( viz. that we could not innovate in faith &c. ) whereas the truth of that fourth proposition was made out by me nine pages before ( viz. p. . ) and the discourse you mention here , as intended to make it out , is found p. , . and levell'd at a quite different business : viz. that a church could not adhere to tradition , and at the same time erre , as you pretended we must grant of the greek church . clear your credit when you can , i charge it upon you as a voluntary insincerity : but you shall never clear it unless by putting out your reader 's eyes , or perswading him not to use them . so that it seems let us bring what arguments we will , you need do no more when they are too hard to answer , but apply them to a wrong point they were never mean't to prove , and then 't is easy to shew manifestly they are frivolous and good for nothing . in the mean time , who sees not that your cause as well as your credit is run a ground and like to split , when you are put to such shifts ! i wonder how this gross fault could escape dr. st's acute sight , if he perus'd and review'd your reflexions . . your second answer , or rather cavill , is , that you could make as fine sport with the word [ notwithstanding ] as i did , but that , it seems , it spoils your gravity . yet you can dispence with that formal humour very easily , as oft as a hard point presses you , especially when you are put to proving : nor are we now to learn that you can laugh at a feather , when you have nothing of more weight to say . but , where lies the jest ? i never excepted against the word , but the misapplying it by dr. st. who , when he was at a loss to give an answer to mr. g's demonstration , very learnedly and advisedly thought it best to deny the conclusion , object an argument of his own against it , and then bid the opponent prove his thesis ( which he had prov'd already ) notwithstanding his argument . when you find me thus untowardly making use of that , or any other , word , you are at liberty to except against me . in the mean time put this in the number of your reflections , that when a man pretends to make sport when there is no occasion , he but discovers his own folly. but the point is , can you make good his logick in this irregular proceeding ? this is what we expected from a writer that undertakes to defend him . but the task is so insuperable , that neither your wonderful learning , nor dr. st. himself , nor all the world to help him can ever be able to do it ; unless he can make the schools renounce all rules of art , and mankind their reason . but what were my words that were so mirthful ? why , i deny'd that a body of men could adhere to tradition , and notwithstanding erre . is here any occasion of fine sport ? or , cannot i use a plain word in the context of my discourse falling in naturally , because he had misus'd it unskillfully and inartificially ? i see by this sliding over it so gentilely , this is all the answer i am to expect to my , , , , d. and th . pages ; where such errours against all methods of dispute are charg'd upon the dr. as would banckrupt any mans credit who had not a large stock of it laid in beforehand . and all the favour his best friends can do him to excuse his person , is to refund it upon his cause . . but , tho' it was granted that discourse of mine cited by you pag. . was so evident , that it was both vnreasonable and absurd to deny it , yet it must not scape without some animadversion . a fault there must be in it , that 's decree'd ; and what should that fault be , but that good one of being too evident . and this , as was shewn formerly , is one of the new tricks taken up to evade answering . when our arguments are too clear to be baffled by any ( even plausible ) reason , being next to self-evident , or easily reducible to it , to save us the labour you reduce it thither your self , but first vilely deform'd , that it may become a fit subject for your jesting way of confuting . we will grant him ( say you ) it is impossible to prove that men have err'd notwithstanding they never err'd . very excellent ! but do you not grant much more ; viz. that it is impossible they should adhere to our rule , and yet erre ? you do , and , in doing so , you grant the whole substance of my discourse . and so let them laugh that win . i am sure you have lost by this forc't confession , that tradiction is a certain rule , and that i have prov'd it evidently . which no man will grant of your rule that is in his wits , nor can the wit of all the men in the world ever prove it to be such as you have yielded ours to be . . the same disingenuity often repeated gives all the force to your next sect. for , . * you pretend we but suppose it hitherto , that these traditionary christians adhere undecliningly to a tradition descending really , and invariably from christ and his apostles , &c. how ! only suppos'd hitherto ! was it not prov'd , and not barely suppos'd in the fourth proposition , and made good by me , p. . if you will not come up to it , but stand hovering , fencing , jesting , falsifying ▪ and capering about by the way , must we be blam'd as barely supposing it hitherto ? . you falsify our words : for who ever said a supposition is self-evident , which every one sees , while 't is barely a supposition , is not evident at all . why quote you not the page where we say this ? because you would not be caught . . you falsify again without care of credit or regard to your reader , in affirming , that from this self-evident supposition i necessarily conclude thus ; suppose traditionary christians neither did nor could erre , it is certain they neither did nor could erre . but why again no place quoted ! because you had again falsify'd it , and durst not hazard discovery . . i perceive , your play here ( p. . ) is to disjoint our discourse , and jumble all the pieces of it confusedly together ; and , so , it must be my work to rectify what you had so industriously unravell'd . since then mr. g. had made use of these words [ traditionary christians ] their sense was first to be explain'd , and therefore i * declar'd that the meaning of them was , such christians as proceeded upon an immediate delivery not only at present , or since the council of trent , or some hundreds of years before , as you put upon us , p. . but upwards till christ's time ; and all the advantage i gain'd thence was that in case they did not adhere to it all along , it would follow that the pretended traditionary christians ( our selves ) were not really such , and so the subject of our dispute would be lost , and we should receive a perfect foil . could any thing be clearer or more candid ? yet , how many shuffles , and baffling jests , you have been pleas'd to bestow on us instead of admitting so clear a proposition ; to how many wrong ends you have apply'd it , never thought on by us , we have already seen . for the truth is , you are so horribly afraid of any connected discourse , that you dare not so much as suffer it to peep out , but it alarums your jealousie ; no , not the very signification of the single words to be distinctly known , or the most evident proposition , tho' it be indifferent to either cause , to be admitted . now let 's see what you say to it ; you make it amount to this : suppose traditionary christians neither did nor could err , * it is certain they neither did nor could err . which you call my necessary conclusion from my self-evident supposition . you improve mightily , sir , in your talent of insincerity . our entire discourse runs thus , if we must needs put it into form for you . those who adhere to tradition all along from the beginning , neither did nor could err in faith , ( otherwise they would not be adherents to tradition or traditionary christians ) . but this body of christians , call'd the roman catholick church , does now , and did from time to time adhere to tradition . therefore this body of christians , call'd the roman catholick church , neither did or could err in faith. this is mr. g's argument : the major is granted by * your self . the proof of the minor is contain'd in mr. g's fourth proposition , which i have shown to be valid in my first letter , p. . and the discussion of it is now under hand . the conclusion is in greatest danger , lest you should , according to the new true-protestant logick , deny it again , and bring some instance against it ; otherwise , since it follows evidently , it will shift well enough for it self . this , i say , is our intire discourse ; all the rest is your flashy drollery , your ever faithful friend , when you are perplext how to answer . . the argument then for the perpetuity of our tradition from christ's time , runs thus . they could not innovate in faith , unless they did forget what they held the day before , or , out of malice , alter it . to enforce this argument , i discours'd * thus . you do not , i suppose , desire we should prove that men had alwaies memories , or that christians were never malicious enough to damn themselves and their posterities wittingly ; and yet , it can stick no where else . yet you are such a bold undertaker , that you will needs prove they may be both thus forgetful and thus malicious . a hard task one would think ; especially since the argument proceeds upon forgetting and altering what they remembred and held yesterday . your first reason to prove they might be thus forgetful , is ; because otherwise it is hard to say why the pen-men of the scripture should have been at the needless pains to write it . let 's apply this to the argument , and your discourse is this . 't is hard to say that christians could have remembred their yesterday's faith , had not scripture been writ . now , pray sir , be serious , and tell us , do you think there is any danger , or even possibility of this among the very protestants in england , tho' they had never a bible to read to morrow ? how many of them read not so much as a chapter in three or four days , how many not in a much longer time ; nay , how few of them read all their faith there in a year , or even in their whole life ; and yet they retain the memory not only of their yesterdays , but last years faith ? what a weakness is this , to suppose miracles must be done for no other end , but that you may answer our argument ? the reasons why scripture was writ , you might have read in st. paul to timothy ; where there is no such thing as to make men remember their yesterdays faith , nor that scripture is of necessity at all ; but only that 't is profitable for many uses there enumerated . your second argument to confute our demonstration , is a text , pet. . . by which you will convince us , mens memories are not alwaies so faithful : you must mean to remember their yesterdays faith ; for this degree of memory only the argument insists on . but what says that b. apostle ? i will endeavour , that you may be able , after my decease , to have these things alwaies in remembrance . now , there is not so much as one word in the whole chapter concerning the remembring or forgetting their faith , much less the faith they held yesterday ; or leaving their faith in writing for that purpose , but only ( faith suppos'd ) of remembring his particular exhortations to good life ; and , by thus inculcating them , to stir them up ( as 't is said , v. . ) to christian virtue , and leaving such things in writing to that end . now , such spiritual and moral instructions are both easily intelligible , especially , since he had taught the same to them formerly ; and man 's natural corruption making even good men apt to slide back from the high degree of perfection in which they had been educated ; no doubt a letter left by that holy apostle , now near his death , as he there tells them , would strike them more feelingly , and excite them more effectually to pursue that course of holy life , in which he had instructed them . what miserable stuff is this ? would not faith have an excellent basis , did it depend on scripture interpreted by your private judgments . when this one instance manifests , you have the boldness to quote scripture for any thing , tho' never so disparate and unconcerning , and then blasphemously nick-name it god's word , when 't is nothing at all to the purpose . but , i beseech you , sir , let 's have the return of one scholar to another . if our argument lye too open , or the connexion in it be too slack , speak to it as you ought ; but think not your private interpretations a competent solution to demonstrations . if such wretched answers may serve the turn , the schools and universities may shut up shop , and reasoning bid adieu to the world : every fop will find a text he can hook in , nor will he fail of interpreting it blindly to his own purpose , when he is gravell'd with an argument ; and of calling it god's word when he has done . who will not see you are sinking , when you catch at such straws and weak twigs to keep you above water . . by this time the reader will be satisfy'd , that notwithstanding all you have answer'd , men had memory enough not to forget their yesterdays faith : next , you go about to prove christians may be malicious enough to alter it . may not christians ( say you , p. . ) through malice and wickedness , be as careless of preserving the faith , as in maintaining holiness in themselves or their posterity , when they know that sin is as damnable as errour ? be judge your self . do not many of your congregation ( and the like may be said of all sects ) sin often , and yet few or none of them desert their faith once ? the reasons why the parallel holds not , are these . . sins are generally private ; at least , men do for the most part endeavour and hope to conceal their faults , for fear of shame and discredit . but the change of faith must be profest and open ; otherwise it alters not the case ; and posterity will still believe on , according as things appear outwardly . . sinners are seldome malicious to that degree , as to resolve firmly to persist so to the end of their lives ; but generally fall out of frailty , and intend and hope to repent . and so this very thing will oblige them still to hold to their former faith , which ( as experience tells them ) furnishes sinners with means of repentance . . man's nature being inclin'd to truth , scarce one man tells a lye , but hopes to cloak it . but here , when they deliver another faith for the same that was held yesterday , every man must know his neighbour to be an abominable shameless lyar ; and , the concern being so sacred , must hold himself and all his fellow-alterers the wickedst men living ▪ unless it be said they went conscientiously upon some other ground than tradition ; for to pretend to be sav'd by tenets held upon no ground at all , is absolutely impossible to consist with rational nature . but 't is impossible they should take up another ground : because if they could not innovate in faith , they could not innovate in that upon which they held all their faith. nor could they be certain , but all their former faith might be renounc'd , if a new rule of faith were taken up . to hear of which , could not consist with the temper of christians , to bear a loss for all their faith. besides , men are more tenacious of their principles , especially if they have gain'd a vast credit by their long continuance , than they are to relinquish all they have receiv'd upon those principles . again , tradition is the authority of the whole ecclesia docens , the chiefest part of ( i might say the ecclesia credens too ) witnessing the deliver'd faith ; which is so vast a body , that it could never ( were there nothing but its own interest ) permit it self to be thought to have attested a lye hitherto : add , that none could be competent judges what was fit to be a rule of faith , but they who were so concern'd both in duty and interest , tradition should not be set aside . which considerations clearly evince an universal change in the rule of faith ; and this over the whole body of believers is absolutely impracticable . lastly , there must be some great time between their discarding tradition and espousing a new rule ; during which time , we must imagin the whole church ( except perhaps some few that discourse it first ) would be made up of seekers ; some hovering one way , some another ; in which case they would as yet have no faith , and consequently there could be no church . 't is left then , that if they could innovate in faith , they must pretend to tradition still when they had evidently deserted it ; that is , they must profess to hold the yesterdays faith , when all the world must see , and every man 's own heart must tell him the contrary : which is the highest impossibility . luther alter'd , calvin alter'd , so did many others ; but none of them had the face to say they still adher'd to tradition , or the faith deliver'd immediately before , and that they had not alter'd . . men fall into sins through temptations , and temptations are various , according to mens tempers and circumstances ; whence it happens , that one falls into one sort of sin , others into another , as things light . but 't is impossible there should have been causes laid in the world , so universal , as to reach a whole body of men consisting of so many millions of different countries , tempers , and circumstances , so as to impel them effectually to fall into the same individual sort of sin , and this such a horrid and shameful one , viz. the altering the faith they hop'd to be sav'd by , and this so suddenly . the nature of the thing shows evidently 't is above chance ; and the very interest of the world would forbid such a conspiracy , were there neither religion , conscience , nor common humanity in it . their very passions , disaffections , and enmity to one another , would make them disagree in carrying on such a wicked project : their natural tempers , abstracting from their common propension to truth , and the care of preserving their credits utterly lost by speaking such open and pernicious falshoods , would render them apt , out of a meer antipathy of humour , to oppose one another ; and all this , supposing there were no goodness at all in the world ; to suppose which , evacuates all christian motives , and their efficacy , and makes our dear saviour preach and dye in vain ; especially , since there never wanted , no , not even in the worst times , a fair degree of disciplin to apply those motives . nay , state-interest , or the quarrels of princes , would make them glad to take hence an advantage against their emulous neighbours ; and to think it the best policy to lay hold on such an occasion , to fight in behalf of faith and common honesty , against a pack of shameless lyars , and deserters both of religion and human nature , who car'd not what became of their own salvation , or that of others . lastly , th●se causes thwarting the universal alteration of faith , while christians proceeded on the former rule of tradition ; and full as much hindring the taking up a new rule in opposition to the testimony of the universal church ; as there could be no cause to make men conspire to alter the yesterdays faith , so christian motives , which contain the greatest hopes and fears imaginable , the hopes of never-ending bliss , and fears of eternal and intolerable misery , which were believ'd and apply'd to the generality of christians , could not , on the contrary side , but influence them most powerfully to preserve unchanged and inviolate both the rule and the faith. 't is as certain then , that a very great body of adherers to tradition , and consequently to the first deliver'd faith , would still remain on foot in the world , as that effects could not be without proper causes , or that motives , which are the proper causes to work upon rational nature , will produce their effect : i mean such motives as engage their very nature . add , that such a change must needs have been publickly known ; and , so , have excited the pens , tongues , interests ( perhaps swords too ) of the traditionary and innovating party one against another , at the time of the change ; as we see has happen'd in our late alterations or reformations . yet no such thing was ever mentioned in history ; or come to us by tradition ; or any thing alledg'd , but some differences amongst particular spectators , and their adherents siding with them ; which amounts to nothing comparable to that universal and most memorable concussion , such a vast change as this we speak of , must needs have made in the whole body of the church . . summing up then this discourse , 't is manifest you have no way to answer our argument , but by supposing there was a time ( the lord knows when ) in which there were no considerable body of men in the world , either good christians , honest men , or valuing their credit ; but only a company of brutish , godless , lying ruffians , without the least degree of grace or shame in them . unfortunate confuter ! aristotle lookt upon things as they were ; plato on things as they should be ; but , to make a show of an answer to our argument , you would have your readers look upon the christian world , as it neither is , was , should be , or can be . . but you object . what if all sons did not understand aright all that fathers had taught them ! answer . if all did not , most of the intelligent and pastours , who were of greater authority than those , some less-understanding persons , and ty'd by their duty and office to instruct their ignorance , would and could easily do it , when the doctrin , open practice and disciplin of the christian church was settled , and made it both so obligatory and so easie . . what if some sons were so negligent as to take no care either to remember or teach what they had been taught by their fathers ? answ. if only some were so , then those who were diligent to do this , would reprehend them , and see to have things amended , and those careless persons , especially if pastours , reduc'd to their duty ; there being orders on foot in the world to oblige them to it . besides , 't is an unheard-of negligence , not to know or remember the next day the faith they held the day before ; nor did it require that care you pretend to retain the remembrance of it four and twenty hours . . what if some , through ambition , vain-glory and popularity , set a broach new doctrines , and taught them for apostolical tradition ? answ. if only some were so , then those others , who were good men , and free from those vices , would set themselves to oppose them , make known their false pretences , and lay open their novelties : both reason assuring us , that good men use not to be so stupidly careless in such sacred concerns ; and history informing us they were ever very zealously vigilant to oppose hereticks , when ever they began to vent their pestilent , doctrins . . what if others , to save themselves from persecution , conceal'd part , and corrupted more of the doctrin of christ by their own traditions , taken not from christ , but from their forefathers , iews or gentiles ? then those who were out of persecution , or valu'd it not so much as they did their conscience , would oppose their unchristian proceedings : then the fathers , doctors , and pastours of the church would reveal what they had conceal'd , restore what they had corrupted , and manifest that their pretences and subterfuges were false , and that the doctrin they subintroduc'd , had not descended by the open channel of the christian church's tradition . . what if some through a blind zeal , ignorant devotion , superstitious , rigour , and vain credulity , added many things to the doctrin of christ ; which by degrees grew into more general esteem , till at last they were own'd , and impos'd as necessary to be believ'd and practised ? answ. if they belong'd to faith , they could not come in , while the rule of tradition was adher'd to , as has been prov'd and granted : tho' perhaps some points involv'd in the main body of faith , yet so particularly or universally known , might , on emergent occasions , be singled out , defin'd and more specially recommended than formerly ; without any detriment to the faith received , but rather to the advantage and farther explication of it . and , as for unwarrantable practices , as they belong not to faith , so they do not concern our present business . . what if errour any of these ways brought forth , grew , multiply'd , spread , obtain'd most power , and drove out all that held the naked truth out of all those countries where it came ; of which all histories furnish us with instances . answ. but does any history tell you this errour spread over the whole church , without your supposing the question that such or such a tenet is an errour which you pretend such ; which is above the skill of historians to decide ; and is only to be determin'd by examining first who have , who have not a certain rule of faith. besides , errour in faith never yet appeared , even though abetted by great men in the church , but it was oppos'd ; and truth grew clearer by the opposition made to it ; and tho' for a while it grew under the shadow of some particular state , yet no history ever recorded , that all the states of christendom ever joyn'd to protect it . . well , but what are all these rambling questions to our argument , which insists on the impossibility of altering the yesterdays faith , but either out of want of memory , or out of malice ? apply them to this , and they lose all their force , how plausibly soever a witty man , that talks at rovers , supposes all to be errour , which the revolting party held , and never considers the nature of christian mankind and their circumstances , may descant upon it : for what paradox is there , tho' never so ridiculous , that wit discoursing thus wildly and at randome , cannot make plausible ? our general objection then against * your whole paragraph is this , that you never apply your several what ifs ? to our argument . besides , that you pretend in the beginning of it that you will shew other reasons of such an alteration , which are neither forgetfulness nor malice ; and yet most of those you here assign are defects of goodness , which implies some degree of malice , and some of them , the highest malice that can be . . but ( say you ) we must seek out a new medium to prove our church infallible , for this already brought , proves only she does not err so long as she holds to tradition ; but still she may err , if she leaves it ; wherefore we must prove she cannot leave tradition , or else she is not infallible , and so we are but where we were . and do not you see this is already prov'd to your hand ? for ( not to repeat the many reasons produc't for this point , sect. . ) innovation and tradition being formerly and diametrically opposite , what proves she could not innovate , proves also that she could not leave tradition ; for this were to innovate . and this , our argument you see has already prov'd ; nor is the force of that proof weaken'd by any thing you have hitherto said . i wonder you should dissemble a thing so obvious , and run forwards upon that affected inadvertence of yours , as if it were a business unthought of by us before , and requir'd a new medium , whereas it is the very thing our argument chiefly aims at : and for which , we had of our own accord , without any one's bidding , made provision for before hand . . your next sect. p. . would perswade us rather to prove our church free from errour , which ( say you ) is a much easier task , if she be so , than to prove her self infallible . very good ! your wise advice amounts to this , that you would have us prove our conclusion without beginning with our premises , or principles . if this be yours and dr. st's logick , 't is a very preposterous one ; and can only be made good by a figure call'd hysteron proteron , or cart before horse . though i must confess it keeps decorum , and is perfectly of the same hue with all your logick hitherto . please then to know that all our faith may be errour , if the testimony of the church , ( our rule ) may be erroneous : and , if it cannot , nothing we hold of faith can be so . again , what mean you by our proving her free from errour ? your meaning is , we should only prove she embraces no errour now ; but what provision would this make for her not falling perhaps into errour to morrow ? we ought then to prove ( and so ought you too of your rule ) that if we adhere to it , it can at no time permit us to err ; which could not be if at any time it might be deceiv'd it self , or leave us deceiv'd while we follow it . besides , if it were granted fallible or liable to errour , by what more evident light , or greater and clearer testimony could we guide our selves to know when it did actually err , when not in deriving down christs doctrine ? or by what more certain way could we be directed to arrive at christ's sence . if there were any such , it and not tradition ought to be our rule . we return you then your counsel back with many thanks , for it neither suits in any degree with logick , common sense , our own , or any other principles . but however it suites better with your convenience , than these crabbed demonstrations : for you tell us one single instance of her erring is enough to answer all the arguments can be brought for her infallibility . sure you have a mind to convince all schollars that read your books , you never heard of logick in your life : or else you would endeavour to baffle the whole art of discoursing , because you foresee 't is like to baffle you . an instance may perhaps make an objection against the conclusion taking it single for a meer proposition and not as standing under proof ; but arguments are answer'd by finding defects in the premises or the consequence . you might have seen ( to use your own words ) better logick read to the d. of p. in my pag. and . where 't is shewn you , that if the premises be right , and the inference good , the conclusion must be as necessarily true , as that the same thing cannot be , and not be at once : yet , you take no notice of it , but still run on obstinately to confute all the schools and universities that ever writ or taught logick from the beginning of the world , to the time of his and your writing . the truth is , you are sick of the argument , and would shift it off on any fashion . bring what instances you please ; but first you are to answer our argument , and next , to see the authority that qualifies your instance for an argument , be above morally certain ; otherwise it will be beyond the power of any logick to make it conclude : for the force of that maxim on which the conclusiveness of any argument is built , is far beyond any moral certainty ; nor let dr. st. think to stand arguing still ad hominem ; but let him be sure his instance infers the truth of his conclusion , when it comes to be put to the test of a syllogism . this we will expect from him ; since it is the right of the respondent to deny any thing that is not driven up to evidence ; and by that test we will judge of your instance and other arguments , if you have any that you will vouch to be demonstrative , that is , conclusive . . you seem so kind as not to undertake to prove that an erring church adheres to tradition , if it be true apostolical tradition , and that it adheres to it wholly and solely . i a little wonder at this ; for if you mean not by tradition such a one as is built on living voice and practice , you ran quite away from the point ; if such a one ; you quit your own rule , by requiring men should adhere to the other wholly and solely , and admit that a church adhering to such a tradition is not an erring church . i inferr : therefore , till you answer our argument which proves that our tradition could not be interrupted by any innovation , you cannot with reason deny but ours is such . you think infallibility a kind of barr against our mutual agreement ; as if there were any hopes or even possibility men's minds should center , unless it be in something that is absolutely certain or evident . shew us something else endu'd with such an evidence as is able to oblige human nature to an universal acceptation and conviction , and then blame us for maintaining infallibility . till then pray , excuse us for making such provision for faith , as sets it beyond possibility of falsehood . you drop some insignificant exceptions after the shower of your shrewd ( invisible ) reasons . as that our * argument must prove that no man that hath been taught the faith can ever err from it ; and yet still withall , confess that a church , following tradition now , may leave it afterwards . this were an incoherence with a witness : but how do you shew our argument must prove this absurd position ! onely with saying it here over and over again , without the least attempt to shew from our words or doctrine , this pretended necessity , that we must both contradict our selves so grossely , and besides go against our daily experience . i do assure the reader we have no where either such words or sense , and that 't is meerly a false sham or some weak deduction of yours , for want of some better thing to say . our tenet is that , tho' not one single man can erre while he adheres to our rule , yet even some particular churches may leave off adhering to tradition , and so err in faith. onely we say that the main body of the church consisting of all particular churches that compound christianity , being supported by motives of adhering to the former faith , so prevalent , and universal , and apply'd to a very vast multitude of them , cannot conspire to relinquish this rule , go against and disgrace their own testimony , nor consequently err in faith. the word [ all ] indeed , and [ they ] in each proposition are distributive , and appliable to each single man ; but do you find the least word in any of them , that sayes that single men or great multitudes may not out of malice alter faith ? where find you that ! or that they cannot desert the rule , and by consequence their faith. pray , be not so liberal of our concessions , without shewing somthing under our hands for it . . but you sum up your solution of our demonstration with an admirable grace , or rather you give us the very quintessence of your answer to it in these few words . the church of rome says all have broke the rule of tradition but she onely , and proves it , by saying that she holds the same to day she did yesterday , and so up to our b. saviours time . you proceed . we call again for a proof of this . she tells us , if she follow'd this rule she could never err in faith. but did she follow this rule ? she says she did ; and if you will not believe her , there 's an end . how smart and victorious this looks ? but the best is , 't is wholly built on some few of your own wilfull falsifications . pray , where did we ever bring these words , [ if she followed this rule , &c. ] for a proof that she holds the same to day which she did yesterday . or where did we prove we follow'd this rule only with iffs ? but why are you so shy to quote the pages or paragraphs where we bring these absurd proofs ? because you would be at liberty to say any thing and yet not expose your credit . and 't is worth noting , that you point out the page in other occasions very diligently ; but , when you have a mind to falsify , 't is still supprest . 't is observable too that this insincerity of yours here is of such advantage to you , that it gains the whole cause . for , if we prove this main point no better but with iffs , & that our argument has no force but by standing to your kindness in believing what our church says , then there 's an end indeed ; for nothing can be more evident , than , 't is that in that supposition , we are utterly routed , & our whole cause quite defeated . now i would entreat the reader ( for you are resolv'd neither to use your eyes nor honesty , lest they should too openly accuse you ) that he will once more review our argument , as 't is put down by dr. st. himself , first letter , p. . and . and made good by me , p. . and . and he will see clearly , the first half of it was to prove , that if they follow'd this rule , viz. of believing the same to day they did yesterday , they could never err in faith , or were infallible : and the other part [ and they could not innovate in faith , unless they did forget what they held the day before , or out of malice alter it ] was brought to prove they did ever follow that rule . for since nothing but innovation can break the chain of tradition , whoever proves they could not innovate , proves directly they could not recede from tradition . nay , 't was confest by dr. st. himself , when he was as yet in better circumstances , ( first letter , p. . l. . ) that we prov'd our church could not innovate , by the medium now mention'd . yet you have the confidence to tell the reader , she only says she follows this rule ; and if you will not believe her , there 's an end : whereas you ought in candour to have said , they prov'd she follow'd , and could not but follow this rule ; but i cannot answer their argument , and there 's an end. see what you have brought upon your self , and how fatal it is to your pretended answer , that as you * began your reply to this th . proposition with a most wicked falsification , so you close it up here with a double one , and those too of so large a size , that were they true , they had carry'd all before them . your intermediate endeavours are many of them of the same kind ; the rest mistakes , ( and generally wilful ones ) which i thought at first to have reckon'd up ; but they thicken'd so upon me , that i saw it would be tedious to count them , and so gave it over . but your excuse for this insincere carriage is , that you do no more than all writers use to do , who have had the bad luck to defend an ill cause , and come to be prest with close truth . all they can do , when they are not able to give a good acount of themselves , is , to bend all their study and seek about for shifts , how they may give no account . and the d. of p. and you are of this prudent generation . i say once again , 't is your chief study how to shift ; and long study of any thing , with frequent practice , makes a man excellent at it ; & every man loves most to do that he is excellent at ; and so we are to expect it . to convince the reader whether i wrong you or no , put you your arguments for the absolute certainty of your rule in conveying to us christ's sense , and for your following it , as close and home as you can possibly ; and see whether i do not answer it directly , fairly & squarely , without any of these shifting excursions or falsifications : and let our different carriage be the test to distinguish the candid asserters of truth , from the insincere abetters of errour . . after i had shew'd that scripture privately interpreted could not be a rule of faith , the nature and method of our dispute led me into an enquiry what was in reality your rule , as you are such a kind of protestant ; and , to this end i discours't thus ; that scripture was a generical rule , common to you and all heresies in the world ; and , that your specifical rule must be [ as my self and those of my iudgment understand or interpret it . ] and can there be any thing more evident ? do not they all strive to lay claim to the letter of scripture for their rule , as well as you ? do not they all , as much as you , rely upon it , and avail themselves by quoting it still , and endeavouring to shew it favourable to their respective tenets ? plain experience informs us and every one , they all do this , and that too , with an ardour and earnestness equal to yours , as far as we can discern . in this then you all agree ; and therefore 't is beyond all dispute , scripture is your common or generical rule , if we may believe your carriage and profession . now let 's see what 't is you disagree in . and 't is manifest you disagree in the sense of scripture ; otherwise , the sense of scripture being god's sense or your faith , you would be of the same faith ; which cannot be pretended , since you contradict them , and they you , in matters belonging to faith ; and what 's the way to arrive at the sense of scripture ? certainly the interpreting it ; for interpretation signifies in proper speech the giving or assigning to words their sense ; and do not you accept that sense of scripture for your faith which your private judgment interpreting it , conceives to be truly its meaning ; and they , in like manner , as they apprehend it , ought to be interpreted ? is it not for this very end you so cry up your judgment of discretion , and that you are not to submit to the decrees of councils or consent of fathers , farther than you conceive them agreeable to the word of god ? does not dr. st. profess openly , that his sober enquirer may understand the explicit sense of implicit points that are doubtful ( such as all main points of faith are ) without the church's help , ( second letter , p. . ) that is , without any publick interpreter ? and , will you after this deny that scripture is your general rule in which you agree with all hereticks ; and your specifical , peculiar or proper rule , in which you differ from them , and they from one another , is scripture , as interpreted by your selves ? the thing is plain , let 's see what you say to it . you , with a very dexterous artifice , grant and not grant it , as we shall see anon : and tell us , . that scripture is and ought to be common to all hereticks , tho' they miserably abuse it . pray , sir , use my words ; i said , a common rule to them and you ; and , can that be truly a rule , which they direct themselves by and yet warp into errour ? you tell us indeed they miserably abuse it ; and the socinians will say the same of you , while you pretend to prove thence christ is god. and how shall this quarrel be decided ? for 't is hitherto a drawn match between you , while you fight with that ambidextrous weapon , scripture's letter interpretable by private iudgments . the point still sticks : how can an indifferent man , seeking for faith by your rule , be satisfy'd they abuse it more than you ? must not you be oblig'd to shew him some clearer light than they have , and that this light justifies you for judging thus harshly of them , that they are such miserable abusers of scripture ? and , if you do not , must he not in true reason judge 't is pretended by you gratis ; as also , that you are highly uncharitable , to charge them downright with so hainous a crime ? 't is that farther degree of light in you that must justifie you for these pretences , which we would gladly see ; for , whatever it is , 't is that which distinguishes you from them , and sets you up to be right vsers of scripture ; that is , it gives you the right sense of it , or your faith ; and so it must difference you essentially from them in your grounds or rule . 't is this light , i say , we would be at ; why is it so shy to shew its face ? . tho' 't is hard to conceive how they can be said to abuse scripture who follow it to their power ; yet , since you will have it allow'd you gratis , does not their pretended miserable abuse of scripture consist in misinterpreting it ? certainly , you must say it does . and if so , then your right interpretation of it , or your taking it in a right sense , is that in which your right vse of it consists : wherefore your own interpretation of it , is , beyond all evasion , that which differences you from them ; and so 't is your peculiar or specifical rule of faith. . do those hereticks who thus miserably abuse it , do this out of wilfulness , that is , do they indeed understand it right , but pretend they do not ; or do they use their endeavour to understand it , and yet hap to abuse it by misunderstanding it ? if the former , then again you must tell us gratis , and ought to make it out to an indifferent man seeking for faith , that the socinians ( and all the erring sects ) are the most wickedly insincere , and the most blasphemous men in the world , nay , the greatest hypocrites to boot ; to know certainly by scripture that christ is god , and yet knowingly impugn his divinity , voluntarily abuse scripture they seem so highly to venerate , and pretend conscience all the while : and yet none but you have such horrid apprehensions of them : and as for my self , seeing how they decline no adversary at the alledging and comparing places , how sedulously they make scripture their study , and in all appearance adhere to the letter ; i verily believe they follow it to their power , but fall into errour through their misfortune of espousing a wrong rule . and if you still say they are thus voluntarily insincere , i desire to know of you by what outward signs can an indifferent man judge you and your party are not as insincere as they , or perhaps more ? acquaint us , i say , for what other reason you say this , but because they frame another sense of scripture than you do , that is , interpret it differently from you ? if you can give no other than your own interpretation is the only light you have to judge them hereticks , or to determine what 's heresie ; and by consequence to judge what 's true faith ; and so 't is unavoidably your rule of faith , of which more by and by . but , if you say they follow it to their power , and yet err in faith , then the fault not being in them , for not following their rule , their fault must be ( as it is yours ) their adhering to a rule which secures not men , tho' doing their best to understand it , from falling into heresie ; that is , it consists in their pitching upon that for their rule , which is indeed no rule at all . . your rule then equally patronizing true faith and heresie , i had reason to affirm , that it inferr'd those blasphemous propositions , as to make light and darkness very consistent , and christ and belial very good friends . now , this being my charge , it was manifestly your duty to shew it does not patronize true faith and heresie , and by doing so , induce those horrid blasphemies ; and to make out , that only true faith can be grounded on scripture privately interpreted ; and therefore , that i had impeach'd it wrongfully . but this was too hard a point to meddle with . instead of doing this , and clearing your self from blasphemy , which was directly incumbent on you , you tell the reader , with a great garb of gravity , that i speak blasphemy my self , blasphemy against god and his holy word ; when i only mention it while i am charging you with it . and hereupon , like a right good man , you fall to talk godly , and out of your pure charity will needs bestow upon me the benediction of your hearty prayer , that god would give me repentance unto life . indeed , had i said that christ and belial could ever be reconcil'd , or advanc'd any position that imply'd it , as yours does , i confess , i must have been guilty of a horrid blasphemy . but , not knowing how to clear your self , for owning no rule but such a one as equally patronizes truth and falshood , and therefore , by a necessary consequence , infers those blasphemies ; you very demurely put on a godly countenance , and betake your self very charitably to your hearty prayers . as much as to say , in good truth , sir , i cannot answer you , nor shew i have any rule , but what serves for errour as well as truth ; but yet if that may excuse me , i will be content in lieu of it , to pray for you with all my heart . is not this pleasant ? . thus much for your rule as 't is common to you and all hereticks . what 's your particular rule ? here . you take it ill that we will needs know what 's your rule better than your selves do ; and we take it as ill of you , that you would have us believe you before our own evident reason . we know you cannot defend such an insignificant rule as your own interpretations ; and therefore are forc'd to disown it , when we press you to give a good account of it ; with which may very well consist , that you proceed upon it when the danger is remote . . you assure us plain scripture is your rule ; that is , ( as appears by your discourse here ) your rule as you are such a kind of protestant . pray , will you explain and unriddle to us this most obscure word [ plain ] in what kind of points , to whom , and by what kind of light , is scripture taken as your rule , plain ? and let 's have something more than a blind word to work on . experience tells us scripture is not plain , even in the highest points of faith , since so many follow it , and yet go astray . again , if it be so plain , all your useful helps are needless ; and lastly , scripture conceiv'd by you to be plain , which is your particular rule , can never be made out to be absolutely certain ; for the socinians too proceed upon scripture , plain to them , as their rule , and yet err ; which evinces 't is not so plain as to convince and certainly enlighten human reason attending to it : an evident argument , that both the one and the other do but fancy it plain , but that , in reality , 't is plain to neither . . you declare , that the interpretation of it by any sect of people , romanists or others , is extrinsical to it , and no constitutive difference of it . that the interpretation of romanists is not the particular rule of your protestants , all the world knew before ; which makes it frivolous to tell us so here . nor do we challenge you , or pretend , that the interpretation of any other sect is your rule ; for we told you , that the interpretation of each sect , respectively , was its particular rule . 't is your own interpretation we said was your rule ; instead of granting or denying which , you shuffle about , and talk of the interpretation of romanists , and other sects . but , if ( which is strangely exprest ) in other sects you include your own too , 't is all one to my discourse . for , whether you regard the interpretation of your own sect , or make account , that as each individual angel is a distinct species , so each individual interpreter among you is a distinct sect , still scripture , as interpretable by your selves , is your particular rule , and not extrinsical to it . for let me ask you once more , is not the sense of scripture your faith ? and , is not that essentially your particular rule of faith , that gives you your particular faith ? and , must i mind you again , that it is the very essence ( as i may say ) or nature of interpretation to give you the sense of the words of scripture , which in our case is your faith. wriggle then still which way you please , you can never avoid , but your own interpretation of scripture is your particular rule ; taking you either for a whole sect , an individual , or both. . at length , as a man in danger when he is follow'd close at the heels , and ready to be caught , takes a desperate leap , tho' he hazards himself a mischief ; you venture boldly to declare what is your particular rule , as differenced from both romanists , and other hereticks and sectaries ; viz. scripture plainly delivering a sense own'd and declar'd by the primitive church of christ in the three creeds , four first general councils , and harmony of the fathers . after which you add , this , i hope , is plain dealing , and no wriggling ; and here we take up our stand , let him endeavour to draw us whither he can . never fear it , sir , you are out of danger of being drawn any whither . ten thousand cart-ropes will not go round you , and we must be at least twenty years in fastening them . but let 's examin this your particular rule . . i ask , whether , since differences use to be essential , these words , [ own'd and declar'd by the primitive church , &c. ] which are found in the difference of your rule from that of others , be at all essential , or not : if not essential , since , if you be orthodox , you ought to have a rule essentially distinct from that of hereticks and sectaries , what is this essentially-different rule of yours ; for 't is this we are enquiring after ? if you say 't is essential ; then scripture had not all the due power to regulate you as to your faith , without their additional light : and , by consequence , scripture is not your only and intire rule , as you ever pretended hitherto ; since these are part of it . when you say your rule is scripture , plainly delivering a sense , &c. i suppose you must mean such a particular sense as is of faith with you : and can any more be requir'd to your particular rule than scripture plainly delivering your particular faith ? certainly you will not say it . for , there is the divine authority in the scripture , which is the formal motive of divine faith. there is plainness , which gives it a directive vertue , and qualifies it for a rule ; and the clear light of this plain rule must shine bright upon the particular tenets you hold , for 't is to shine there , and no where else . which once put , what can all the other , esteem'd by you but human authorities , serve for ? can they add weight to the divine authority , or clear that to us which is already so plain by scripture ? . pray be candid , and tell us , after a thing is plain in scripture , are you to value a straw , what either primitive church , creeds , or fathers say ? i dare say you will grant you are not . wherefore , all these are utterly useless , unless they be pretended to give you some light to interpret scripture . but this cannot be neither ; both because you tell us here plain scripture is your rule , and it would not be plain , but obscure , if it needed an explainer : besides , you put this as a constitutive difference of your rule , and yet deny'd that any interpretation of scripture is such , but extrinsical to it . 't is then a great mystery still , how these human authorities affect your general rule , or influence your faith already had by plain scripture , or to what end they serve but for a show only . . the lutherans proceed upon all these as much as you , and yet hold a reall presence of christ's very body in the sacrament , as much as we do . so that this does not difference you in your grounds or rule from all other sects ; for sure you will not deny that to be a sect , that holds an errour , which dr. st. has taken such pains to prove is idolatry . my last question shall be , whether your sober enquirers are not to come to their particular faith , by this their particular rule of faith ? and , since 't is evident they must , we would know next how many of them are to arrive at any faith at all ? for it will take up many years to examin and compare all the fathers , and be sure of their harmony with one another , and with the scripture too . nay , the duration of the world will be too short to compass that satisfaction , if we may believe the * bishop of downs , who assures us , that out of the fathers succeeding the primitive times , both sides eternally and inconfutably shall bring sayings for themselves respectively . can any man living make sense of such stuff , or ever come at his faith by such a rule ? . for this last reason chiefly , i affirm'd , that not one protestant in a million follow'd dr. st's rule , but honestly follow'd the tradition of their own church , pastours or fathers ; that is , believ'd as they had been educated . to the first part of this assertion you say little , but that if there be any fault , 't is the fault of the people only . but if this peculiar rule of yours , which takes in the seeing your sense of scripture own'd and declar'd by the primitive church , four first general councils , and the harmony of the fathers , be to be followed e're you can come at your faith ; i doubt the fault will prove to be in the rule . for very few persons have learning , fewer leisure enough , and none of them security of having any faith by this method ; unless you could ensure their salvation by inspiring those who are ignorant with competent learning to understand all the fathers and their harmony ; and withal , by letting them good long leases of their lives ; which i am of opinion you cannot . the second part , that they follow'd the method of tradition , puts you in a marvelvellous jocund humour ; and , as if you had forgot your way ( a thing not unusual with you ) you ask , all amaz'd , where are we now ? in the church of rome e're we are aware of it : we are all good roman-catholicks on a sudden , we are become an infallible church , &c. and away you run with the jest , laughing and giggling as if you had found a mare 's nest. surcease your fears , good sir , you are not a jot the nearer being catholicks for following your own tradition . it reaches no farther than iohn calvin , martin luther , or some such reforming heroe ; and there it ends and stops in a flat novelty . whereas catholicks abhor a tradition that has any known beginning , or takes a name from any particular author , or has any original but christ , his apostles , and the church in the very first age , who were the original deliverers of it to the next , and so to the succeeding ones . pray sir , what 's become of your jest ? all i said , was , that you * followed the way of tradition , however misplac'd ; i prov'd it by reasons and instances ; you hint some , omit others , and pervert the rest . you tell us , 't is all scriptural tradition . but we will trust our eyes and experience before your bare word . we see some taught before they can read ; we see them catechiz'd in churches , and they repeat and believe what 's there told them , tho' scripture be not quoted for the distinct passages . we see them read the scripture afterwards ; but we see withal not one in thousands trusts his own judgment of discretion for the sense of it ; but , without reluctancy or jealousie , accepts that which his pastours assign to it ; especially in spiritual points , or mysteries of faith , about which we are chiefly discoursing . but do not your self incline to admit ( as much as we can expect from a man that affects not too much candour ) that very thing you so laugh at here . i affirm'd , that not one in a million thinks of relying on your rule of faith , in order to make choice of their faith , &c. this you answer with hems and hahs : tho' i fear — yet i hope he is out in his account — i am apt to think they are more attentive — yet be it as he would have it , &c. now , since they must either have their faith by reliance on their pastours and preachers , delivering it to them , and educating them in it , that is , by some kind of tradition ; or else by relying on scripture ; * and your self seems to doubt , or rather in a manner grants it , that they have it not the later way ; you must at least doubt that they have it by the way of tradition . but your fancy was so big with your empty jest , that you had forgot what you had allow'd but a little before . . thus , sir , i have trac'd you punctually step by step ; not ( as is your constant use ) pickt out a few words scatter'd here and there : which you thought you might most commodiously pervert : wherefore i have reason to expect the same exact measure from you . the sum of your answer is manifestly this . shuffles and wilful mistakes without number ; evasions endless ; falsifications frequent ; godly talk frivolous ; jests groundless ; and all these brought in still to stop gaps when your reason was nonplust . be pleas'd to leave off your affected insincerities ; otherwise i must be forc't to expose them yet farther ; than which there can be no task more ungrateful imposed upon your servant , j. s. errata . page . l. . read both of u● . p. . l. ult . find it in . p. . l. notice there . p. . l. . go forwards . p. . l. . secret. again , p. . l. . as i had not . p. . l. . is it a way . ibid. l. . upon it ? p. . l. . your reason is , because . p. . l. . may hap . p. . l. . gift . ibid. l. . prince of . p. . l. . it . whether . p. . l. . a most . p. . l. . adherers . p. . l. . to be at a loss . ibid. l. ult . discover'd it . p. . l. . speculaters . p. . l. . yet not so explicitly or . p. . l. . formally and. p. . l. . other , then . the third catholick letter in ansvver to the arguing part of doctor stillingfleet's second letter to mr. g. by i. s. published with allowance . london , printed , and sold by matthew turner at the lamb in high-holbourn . . the third catholick letter , &c. sir , . i come now to take a view of your second letter , with my eye , as in the former , fixt only upon what i think you mean for argument . whether you give us just your first words at the conference ; or second thoughts since ; whether no troublesome part of mr. g's discourse be left out ; in short , whatever belongs to matter of fact , shall be out of my prospect , which shall be bounded by what you think fit to open to it . you acquaint us here ( pag. . ) that you put two questions . . how does it appear that the church of rome is infallible in the sense and meaning of tradition ? . is this tradition a rule of faith distinct from scripture ? and you complain of mr. g. that his copy makes you ask a very wise question . viz. how does it appear that the church of rome is infallible in tradition . why this question should be ironically call'd a very wise one , i cannot imagin . i am sure it is very pertinent to the intention of your dispute , and directly points at one of the chief subjects of the conference . but you shall have your will ; tho' i beleive it will appear mr. g's question made better provision for your credit in point of wisdom than you have done for your self . . for , your second was in truth a very needless question ; because both your self and all your auditours , if they ever heard any thing of this kind of controversy , knew beforehand without needing to ask , that the tradition we lay claim to , pretends to derive down the intire body of christ's doctrin , and not only the books of scripture , of which ( p. . ) you very learnedly seem to counterfeit your self ignorant . and this is the first part of your distinguishing the plain sense of this word [ tradition ] as held by mr. g. by this question you tell us ( p. . ) you intended to put a difference between the tradition held by us [ protestants ] and the tradition disputed . for the first meaning of the word [ tradition ] which you grant , you put the vniniversal testimony of the christian church , as to the books of scripture . the second and deny'd meaning you contra distinguish from the former in these words . but if by tradition be understood either some necessary articles of faith not contain'd in scripture , or a power in the church to make unnecessary to become necessary , this i deny'd , &c. certainly , sir , you have a logick of your own so peculiarly fitted to your designes , that no man living but your self ever us'd it . i ever thought , and apprehended i had all the world on my side for thinking so , that all differences or distinctions were to be opposites , and to divide the common genus , or the notion that was to be distinguish't ; and , therefore , since the first sense of the word [ tradition ] was tradition for books of scripture , which is your tenet ; i verily expected the opposit sense of it should have been tradition for doctrines , which is ours ; and that , as the former was tradition for christ's words , so the latter should be tradition for christ's sense . but while i was vainly imagining the second sense of the word would be tradition for faith , instead of that i found nothing but such articles , and such a power . did ever any mortal man think or pretend that tradition was an article , or a power , any more than that it was a horse shoe ? did your self when you granted the latin and greek churches follow'd tradition , intend to signify that they follow'd articles and powers ? the summ then of your learned distinction is in plain terms this : tradition is two-fold : one is a tradition for books ; the other is no tradition at all , but only articles and power . had it not been better then to have accepted of mr. g's civility , and have answer'd to the purpose , rather than out of a pique to his copy , and a desire to make it stand in need to be corrected , thus to pervert common sense , and out of a too zealous care not to forfeit your wisdome , to commit such an illogical absurdity ? but sense and logick , tho' they be plain and honest true friends , yet i must own that , like the queens old courtiers , they may appear scandalous companions to a man of your more polite and modish education . however , i dare answer for you , it was not ignorance of their worth , but an unlucky necessity , which made you introduce in their room two new questions to while away the time and escape the true one , which you had no mind to meet close and grapple with . yet perhaps you may have better luck in your first question ; let us see : by your first question then , and your explication of your design of it immediately after , 't is easy to discern that you again quite mistake the end and use , and consequently the nature of tradition ; which is a very inauspicious beginning , and puts us out of hopes you should ever discourse pertinently of it , since you go about to impugn you know not what . for tradition does not bring us down set forms of words onely , as you imagin , viz. ( as you instance p. . ) christ was the son of god , under which you say well a heretical sense may ly : but it derives down to us the very sense of those words , and all the rest of christ's doctrine ; there being found in tradition all the ways and means to signify and express the determinate meaning and sense of forefathers that can possibly be imagin'd . for , they not only deliver the propositions of faith in such or so many words , as you apprehend ; but , they signify to their children the very tenets they have in their hearts , in such expressions as best sutes with the occasion , according as their different methods of explaining themselves may lead them . you may upon reflexion observe it passes thus in your self when you instruct people in their faith : in which circumstance , you do not ty your self up to rigorous forms of words made to your hands , but take your liberty to deliver your self in any manner that you judge will make your meaning be best understood . the same method is taken by the pastours of the church ( and the fathers of families too according to their pitch and station . ) they catechize their children ; they preach upon the texts proper to such points ; they dilate themselves in their discourse , with a full design to make their sense be perfectly comprehended ; they reply to the difficulties of those who are not yet perfectly instructed , or well satisfied ; and accommodate themselves to all their exigencies . lastly , they lead their christian lives , and breed up others to do the same , by those principles : and , experience as well as reason tells us , that nothing gives the determinate sense of words which express tenets , more distinctly than does perpetual practice , and living conformably to what 's signified by those words . the want of which requisits in the letter of scripture , which can give no answer to any difficulty , nor vary any expression to make its meaning more intelligible , nor live , and by example make the reader live according to such a sense , shews clearly , that , taking it alone and unassisted by the churche's tradition ( determining and ascertaining it's meaning in dogmatical points ) it cannot in any proper speech be call'd a rule of faith. . if , notwithstanding what has been said , this discourse should still seem to you more a speculation than a real truth ( which yet i judge impossible ) : pray reflect how your self would go about to instruct your own children in your faith ; and you will easily find by experience , when 't is brought home to your own case , how connatural this way is to clear to them your sense , in what you would have them believe . do not your self use the same method ? do you only deliver to them certain forms of speech , without endeavouring , by all the possible means you can invent , to imprint the true sense ( that i may use your own instance ) of these words [ christ is the son of god ] in their souls ; and to make it still clearer to them , as their budding capacities grow riper and riper ? do you not experience they come by degrees to understand you too ; and that you have at length transfus'd into them the sense of the tenet you had in your own breast ? do not you practically instil into them , that they ought to pray to christ ; and exercise their faith , hope and charity towards him while they are praying ? do not you tell them they are to give divine reverence to christ ; without stinting them , or making them scruple , lest they give too much , or commit idolatry , by giving that to a creature , which is only due to the true god ? and does not this practise , beyond all possibility of mistake , insinuate into them , that he is equally to be ador'd with god the father , or coequal to him ; and , so , not a creature , but very god of very god ? i doubt not but you do all this ; at least , i am sure , if you do it not , you do not your duty : nor do i doubt but your children come at length to understand you too , and , by understanding you , become of the same religion . and can you imagine , that men were not men in all ages , but ( in the blind times of popery forsooth ! ) degenerated into parrots , and learn'd to prate set-words , without minding their sense ? or , that christians were not alwayes christians , and endeavour'd to imbue under-growing posterity with the meaning of the tenets they profest ; and hop't to be sav'd by their propagating them to those whom they were bound to see instructed in faith ? or , lastly , can you conceive there can be any means invented by man's wit , to make known and propagate the sense of words that express points of faith , which is not in the highest measure found in tradition ? if you cannot , ( as i am sure you cannot ) then you must withal either confess , that tradition brings down the sense of christ's law , and not the bare words or sounds only ; or , you must advance this monstrous paradox , that there is no possible way in the whole world for mankind to communicate their thoughts and meanings to one another in such points ; the contrary to which you experience dayly in your self and others . and , were this so , then , to what end were catechisms , sermons and controversies about such subjects ? to what end all instructions , conferences , and explications of them by the pastours ? again , if you grant these ( as you must ) to be the best expedients to transmit down the sense of christ's words , that is , our faith ; how can you hold scripture's letter the rule of faith : which , taken as counterdistinguish't to tradition , wants all those most effectual means of discovering to us it's meaning . certainly , that must be the rule of faith that is best qualify'd to give us our faith ; and that must be best qualify'd to give us our faith , which has the best means to give us christ's sense ; and not that which wants all the best means to produce such an effect . on the other side , supposing christ's doctrine once settled in the body of the church , how can you deny tradition , thus abundantly furnisht with the best means imaginable to deliver down the first-taught doctrine , to be such a rule ; seeing no more is requir'd to be a rule of faith , but to be qualify'd with a power to acquaint us who live at this distance with the true sense of what was deliver'd by the founders of the church in the beginning , without danger of losing it by the way ; which cannot be imagin'd as long as tradition is held to , the same believ'd to day which was held yesterday , or that the immediately succeeding fathers still deliver'd the same doctrin . to do which there wanted no power , as has been lately shewn to the full ; nor will to use that power ; being oblig'd to it by the greatest penalties god himself could inflict , the damning themselves and their posterity . . but , say you ( pag. . ) if the church may explain the sense and meaning of tradition , so as to oblige men to believe that by virtue of such explication , which they were not oblig'd to before , then 't is impossible the infallibility of tradition should ly in a constant tradition from father to son ; for they have no power to oblige to any more than they received . ] how plausibly and smoothly this discourse runs , and how shrewdly it seems to conclude ? would any well-meaning reader imagin that it were perfect non-sense all the while , and wholly built on your own liberality , giving us another sort of tradition which is no tradition ? this malignant word [ tradition ] must not be taken in its right sense , that 's resolv'd , for then it would grow too troublesom ; but , take it in any other sense , that is , mistake it , and then have at it . for when you speak of explaining the sense and meaning of tradition , you do not take tradition , as , you know well , we do , and as the word plainly imports ; for the delivery of doctrin , but for doctrins delivered ; and so again , we have once more lost the question . for , what can these words mean ? if the church may explain the sense and meaning of tradition ; that is , of the method of conveying down christs doctrin ? the method of delivery is the very signification of that doctrin from age to age , and how can one explain the sense and meaning of a signification of christ's sense , when it 's self is that very explication of it ? this gives me occasion to reflect how oddly you have hamper'd our tradition hitherto instead of handling it . p. . you seem to doubt by your [ if no more were meant , &c. ] whether it does not mean tradition for the books of scripture ; and , this you knew well enough before , was none of our tradition in dispute here ; which , as may be seen by mr. g's demonstration put down by your self , first letter p. . and . is confest to be tradition for matters of faith or doctrin : now in this new sense you give us there of tradition , you kindly * grant it ; for 't is your own , not that which we here mean by that word . next comes * another [ if ] and makes it seem to signify * articles and power . and this is no tradition at all ; neither ours , nor yours , nor any body's : for , neither those articles nor that power you speak of p. . are or can be the delivery of christ's doctrin from day to day ; for that speaks such a method of bringing down things , not the things brought down . and this you very gravely deny . and so you may , with my good leave , either deny or expunge , or condemn it to what doom you please ; for certainly it comes with a felonious intention , to draw the reader out of his road into a labyrinth of non-sense , and then robb him of his reason . again , p. . you make it a delivery of bare words , at best , with a general ( impossible ) sense , and perhaps a heretical one too , into the bargain ; whereas you cannot but know tradition , as we mean it , is a delivery of the sense of christian tenets , and this a particular sense too ; and such a one as cannot possibly be heretical , while this rule is adher'd to ; unless the first-taught faith were heretical , which is blasphemy to imagin . and , here again p. . you make tradition or delivery to mean the point delivered , and would have us give you the signification and explication of that which is it's self the signification and explication of christ's faith ; and this too , the * very best that can be imagin'd . is it possible to deform tradition more untowardly , or wrest it into more misconstructions than has been done already ? after a serious manner , certainly , 't is impossible : but drollery is now to act its part : and to cheer your spirits , which droop't under the difficulty of answering the argument for tradition , you put your self in masquerade ; and would make the relation of perhaps two or three , it may be , partial friends of yours , concerning mr. g's discourse about you , a perfect parallel to our rule of faith ; and that , if they can mistake or misrepresent , down goes tradition . which amounts to this , that sooner may all the christian fathers in any age , consisting of many millions , and those disperst in far-distant parts of the world , be mistaken in their faith , which it imported them no less than their salvation to know ; sooner may all of them conspire to deliver to their children another doctrin than that which they held the way to heaven ; than that a very few of your own party should , to gratify you , tell you a false story , or aggravate ; tho' all of them were , besides , profest adversaries to the person against whom they witnest ; and , indeed , witnesses in their own common cause . i beseech you , sir , tho' you be never so much to seek for a solid answer , yet speak at least plausible things , and do not thus expose your credit while you affect to play the wit. poor tradition , what has it done to be thus misrepresented ! did it deserve no better for bringing down the book of scripture , but to be expos'd in so many aukward vizards , when it was to come upon the stage , and not once suffer'd to shew it's true face , but still travestee'd into another form , and put in all shapes but its own ? this carriage of yours is enough to make the reader think you apprehend it to be some terrible gorgons head , or some basilisk ; and , that the very sight of it , unless it came thus muffled up , would undo you . at least he will suspect from such an untoward broken scene , that the dramma is not like to be regular : indeed you shift too often , and to catch and confute you i must travel thro' the whole compass ; for no sooner can a man steer one way , but your discourse , like the wind , whips straight into another quarter ; and about we must tack , or we must not make forwards at all . but i will insist no more at present on this dexterity of yours ; you will afford your friends many fresh instances of it , through the whole course of this letter hereafter . onely i must note your forgetfulness , or what else may i call it ? for you took the notion of tradition very right , first letter ( p. . ) where you alledg'd you had a larger and firmer tradition for scripture than we had for us : you did not there , take tradition of that book , for the book delivered ; for then that book had been the delivery of its self ; and yet that book had as good title to be it's own tradition , as you had to make the points delivered by our tradition to be the tradition or delivery of those points . you granted too in the same place that the latin and greek churches proceeded upon it ; and , by granting this , confest there were as many attesters went to make it up as there were men , ( at least intelligent men ) in the compass of the many vast nations which those two churches included : how come you then so much to forget your self as to parallel it here to the pittiful attestation of three or four possibly prejudic't relaters . but the reason of this self-contradicting and extravagant representation of tradition is clear ; it was your interest to take it right there , and the same reason prevail'd with you to take it wrong here . . but i am weary of fencing with shadows , when i can take any occasion that leads me to treat of what 's substantial . mistake me not , 't is not your discourse that obliges me to it ; it had been a sufficient answer to that , to let the reader see you purposely mistook the nature of tradition , to divert and perplex his thoughts , and there let it rest . yet , because your taking tradition wrong , for the doctrines deliver'd , good use may be drawn from it , i shall , for the benefit of the reader , not decline speaking to what you object . you make account ( p. . & . ) the tradition of the church deliver'd the point of the ` reall presence , & of christ's being the son of god , in general words onely . which , waving what has been alledg'd in my d. and d. sect. i judg for divers other reasons to be impossible . for , besides that , if the forefathers deliver'd onely the words , they taught their children ( against the supposition ) no faith in these points , for faith has sense in it , and is not faith if it have none , being in that case no true iudgment or truth ; who knows not that words were instituted and intended by mankind to signify something ; and , therefore , 't is inconsistent with the nature of the same mankind , when at age , especially the wiser sort , not to hold some sense or other to be signify'd by those words ; and with the nature of christians , not to instruct those whom they are to educate in faith , with that sense ; as also with the nature of those who are to be instructed , not to desire to know the sense of the tenets they are to believe . but , that sense cannot be a general one , that is , common to all the several tenets now sound among us ( for it will not be general if it exclude any one ) it must therefore abstract from all particulars , and be applicable to every one . now there is no such generical notion or sense which can be abstracted from christ's body , which is living , and a piece of bread , unless this , that they are both quantitative or mixt bodies ; to believe which would make a very extravagant point of faith ; much less can such an abstraction be made from christ's reall living body , and some supernatural gifts or qualities , either in the bread , or wrought in our souls by means of our receiving the eucharist ; for a substance and a quality differ toto genere ( as the logicians express it ) that is , belong to different commonest heads , which have no genus above them , or that can abstract from them . least of all can any such common notion be abstracted from the natural or true son of god , and a meer man ; no more than there can from god and a creature . whence follows most evidently , that , since the faithful must necessarily have always had some meaning of those words in their hearts , and a general sense of them is impossible , they must have ever had particular notions of those words , determining their sense to the one signification , or the other ; that is , either to mean christ's real body , or not his real body ; a true and essential godhead , or a meer creature . my second reason is , because faith is ordain'd to work through charity , or to stir up devour affections in us ; whence , as the distance is infinite in both cases , between one of those senses and the other , there being god on one side , on the other a creature ; so the affections of the soul wrought in us by our faith , must either oblige us to pay an infinite veneration to a creature if christ's real body ( and consequently god ) be not there , or if christ be not god ; which is the greatest deviation from true religion that is possible ; or else , to be highly irreverent , and to want the most efficacious motive that can be imagin'd to excite and elevate our devotion , if he be there , or christ be indeed god. nor can any middle disposition be invented that can make the acts of the soul hover between it's tendency towards an infinite and finite being , or between an infinite and finite reverence . i dare confidently conclude then , and dare avow it to be demonstrable out of the nature of mankind , that either the one or the other determinate sense of those words must have been held in all ages , ever since the apostles time , by the generality of the foregoing faithful ; more or less expresly , as those respective points , broke out more or less into christian action ; which their duty could not but prompt and oblige them to deliver to their children as occasion served ; and consequently , that that particular sense , and not onely ( as you fancy ) the general words , must have descended by tradition . . next , my position is , that , taking the word [ tradition ] for points descending by tradition , as you will needs have it , the church has power and authority to explain the sense and meaning of them , and to oblige others to believe her ; and yet , that this hinders not the infallibility of tradition from consisting in holding the same to day that was deliver'd yesterday , &c. this is the difficulty , i conceive , that so much troubles you . to clear which , you may please to reflect on what you know already by experience ; that , let any man advance a single tenet , and afterwards , upon occasion , set himself to explicate at large the sense of that proposition ; 't is plain , there will be found in that large explication many particular propositions ; not adequately the same , but in part different from that which he went about thus elaborately and distinctly to explain ; of which perhaps even himself was not aware while he did not reflect ; not being yet invited to make it clearer , or dilate on it . and yet he held , even at first , the sense ( and not only the words ) nay the whole sense of that main tenet or sentence ; tho' he saw not distinctly every single proposition contain'd in it , till he became oblig'd to scan and study his own undistinguisht , but true , thoughts concerning it . the same may be said of every sermon and it's text , supposing it be rigorously held to ; and no more be attended to but to explain it's intrinsick and full meaning . in which case , the preacher sticks not to assure his auditory , that what he has preach't to them all the while , is gods word ; and to press them to regard it as such , as far as his small authority over them can reach . and , had he more , in case he did verily judge his explication of that text was genuin , and , consequently , christ's true sense ; he would questionless esteem himself bound to make use of that authority to his utmost , to edify them with the explicit belief of each particular contain'd in so excellent a truth . this being so , why should not the same priviledge be granted to the church and her pastours to explicate , upon due occasion , the sense of christ's faith , in many particular propositions involv'd in the main tenet , ( even tho' we should suppose them to be not heard of , perhaps not distinctly thought of , before ) which is allow'd to every private man , and any ordinary preacher ? and , if those governours of the church be , by their office , conservers of christs law , and see that these propositions , newly singled out , are included , in any point of faith receiv'd upon their rule ; why ought they not , out of their duty and zeal to preserve christ's faith intire , both define these points , and also use their authority to oblige the faithful to accept them as such ; or , if they disaccept them and express themselves against them , to exclude them from their communion ? . but still , say you , these particular points came not down by tradition , nor were deliver'd as held yesterday , and so upwards till christ's time ; for they were not held at all before they were defin'd or declar'd . i distinguish : these propositions were held ever and descended ever as they were involv'd in the intire point ; in the bowels of which , the sense of those others were found : but , as singled out in such and such particularizing manners of expression , they were ( perhaps ) not held ever . i say , not held ever formerly , at least not universally . which is the true reason why some private writers , nay possibly some great men , might ( out of a dutiful fear not to add to faith ) have doubted of them , or disaccepted them , perhaps oppos'd them ; till the collective church , or some great body of them , who are able to look more intelligently into those points , declar'd and unfolded the sense of the main article , in which they were hitherto enwrapt : for , besides that it is their peculiar office , and ( as it were ) trade , to look deeper into the sense of the several points of faith , then others do ; 't is very rational to conceive , that those tenets were found more particularly explicated in some parts of the body of the church than in others ; which makes it difficult to affirm any particular point defin'd since christ's time , was not in many places of the church held ever , tho' it was not in all ; nor made as yet any great noise , being as yet neither oppos'd , ( which alarum'd the church to reflect heedfully upon it ; ) nor so powerfully recommended , which oblig'd the faithful more briskly and manifestly to own it . what difficulty or disagreeableness to the connatural course of things there is in all this , i cannot imagin ; nor , i am confident , your self ; unless your thoughts , startling at the unwelcom conclusion , should recoil back to your former mistake , that only words came down by tradition ; or that christ's sense was never in the breast of the diffusive church ( his spouse , and the pillar and ground of truth ) and in the understandings of her pastours ; which takes all faith out of the world , and destroys the very essence of a church : or , lastly , that many particular ( or rather partial ) propositions are not included in the total sense of every main tenet , and disclos'd by a full explication of it ; whence it comes to be discover'd to be a part of it , that is , in part it. . i am sorry you will needs give me occasion to interrupt such discourses , as tend to the clearing some truth , to defend tradition against your reproachful mistakes ; with which , in defiance to all sense , i had almost said against your own conscience too , you have loaded it . but these are some of your extrinsecal arguments , which , for want of better , jealousy of your cause and reputation prevails with you still to make use of ; and , so , you will triumph mightily if they be past over unconfuted . you attempt , p. . to play your politick game , and to conquer us by dividing us in our rule of faith ; tho' it cost your credit very dear to effect it . to this end , running on in your former mistake of the plain word [ tradition ] and that it means points and articles , you tell us sadly that this denying to the church of rome power to explain tradition takes off from its power & authority . that it resolves all into meer humane faith — meer natural reason — that the utmost it can amount to , is resolving faith into a logical demonstration . then follows the holy cant. and is this the faith christians are to be sav'd by ? what grace of god , what assistance of the holy spirit are necessary to such a faith as this ? but for this i refer you to the haeresis blacloana . you should have added [ where dr. tillotson , and my self have the honour to be brought in for writing so catholickly ] . truly sir , you have given us a very pretty period ; in which many of your modish qualifications vy for the precedency , and 't is hard to determin which has most title to it . nay , p. . you tell mr. g. that our grounds overthrow the church's authority in matters of faith , and proceed upon pelagian principles . your charge , sir , is very grievous and heavy ; and therefore , unless the evidence you bring to prove it , be answerable , you will manifest your self to proceed upon a new christian ( in truth , an old unchristian ) principle ; but , which suits it seems with your humour , and is requisite to your cause , calumniare fortiter — i need not tell you whose it was . . to stop your mouth therefore once for all concerning haeresis blacloana , know that that book , tho' printed in a catholick country , could not be licenc't ; but came out surreptitiously , without any printers name at it , or any other then a fictitious name of the author . know that it was sent to rome , and was compar'd there with the doctrin of tradition which it impugn'd . and yet it was not found that this doctrine either overthrew the churches authority in matters of faith , nor that there was any pelagianism in it : otherwise those books which were accus'd of it , and defended tradition to the height , had not escap't their censure . this shews how shallow this exception of yours is , and to what mean shifts you are reduc't , since you can quote a squabbling book of one roman-catholick against another about tradition , in stead of answering the argument for it . an ill-natur'd man might ( you know very well ) name authors of another communion , not too well thought and spoken of by eminent persons of their own side , and written against too by others . yet i shall not be so like some i know , to turn a dispute into a wrangle ; but shall apply my self to shew how far the doctrine of tradition is from deserving to be charg'd with such injurious reflexions . . but before i go farther , i must take notice of your quoting f. warner here , p. . and your appealing to him , where you put haeresis blacloana in the margent : by which you seem to hint , that he is the author of that book , and an adversary to the doctrin of tradition ; even so far as to judg it not sound in faith : for , no less aversion could make you very much question whether f. w. would absolve any man who professed to embrace catholick faith on mr. g's . grounds . but , as that very reverend person declares , he never saw that book till some of them were presented him bound , so himself has forestal'd your little policies , aiming to set us at variance in our tenets , in his anti-haman p. . [ we catholicks have faith , because we believe firmly those truths that god has reveal'd , because he reveal'd them to the church : which , as a faithful witness , gives hitherto , and will give to the end of the world testimony to that revelation . and we cannot be hereticks because we never take the liberty to chuse our selves , or admit what others chuse ; but we take bona fide what is deliver'd us , reveal'd by the greatest authority imaginable , on earth , which is that of the catholick church . ] he proceeds : [ here then is the tenure of our faith. the father sent his only begotten son , consubstantial to himself , into the world ; and what he heard of his father he made known to us , io. . . the father and son sent the h. ghost ; and hee did not speak of himself , but what he heard , that he spoke , io. . . the holy ghost sent the apostles , and they declared unto us what they had seen and heard , io. . . the apostles sent the highest and lowest prelates in the church ; and the rule by which they fram'd their decrees was , let nothing be alter'd in the depositum , let no innovation be admitted in what 's deliver'd : quod traditum est non innovetur : ] but he more expresly yet declares himself no adversary to this way ibid. p. . your friend mr. g. b. had call'd this way of proving doctrines , that they had them from their fathers , they from theirs , a new method of proving popish doctrines ; and receives for answer these words . you discover your ignorance , in saying that method was new , or that arnaud invented it : mr. thomas white had it before arnaud : mr. fisher a iesuite , before t. w. bellarmin before him ; & st. austin , st. stephen pope , & tertullian before them all . where you see he both allows this very method we take , as practis'd by modern controvertists of note ; nay , by some of his own order too , whom he is far from disapproving ; and by antient fathers also , whom he highly venerates . your petty project thus defeated , i shall endeavour to open your eyes , if they be not ( which god grant they be not ) wilfully shut . . the asserters of tradition observing , that the adversaries they had to deal with admitted christ's doctrin to be divine , held it the most compendious way to put a speedier end to all controversies , ( which experience taught them were otherwise liable to be spun out into a voluminous length ) and the most efficacious method to conclude all the heterodox , of what denomination soever , to prove , that the doctrin held now by the catholick church was christ's , or the self-same that was taught at first by himself and his apostles . it was bootless for them to attempt to prove this by texts of scripture , manag'd by their private wits ; for , the truth of our faith depending on christ's teaching it , if it were not absolutely certain christ taught it , it could not be evinc't with absolute certainty to be true. now , the same experience inform'd them , that no interpretation of scripture , made by private judgments , ( of themselves , or others ) could arrive to such a pitch of certainty ; and , consequently , would leave faith under the scandalous ignominy of being possibly , and , perhaps actually false . it was to as little purpose to alledge against such adversaries the divine assistance to the church , or christs promise of infallibility to it , as you very weakly object to mr. g. ( p. . ) as not once asserted by him . for , tho' this was believ'd by the faithful , yet it was disown'd by all those heterodox ; and , being it self a point of faith , it seem'd improper to be produc't for a rule of faith. besides , how should they prove this divine assistance ? if by scripture interpreted by their private judgments ; these not being absolutely certain , it would have weaken'd the establishment of that grand article , which to the faithful was a kind of principle to all the rest , in regard that upon the certainty of it , the security they had of all the other articles was to depend . if , by the divine authority of the church it self , it was not so easie to defend that method not to run round in a circle ; whereas all regular discourse ought to proceed straight forwards . these considerations oblig'd them to set themselves to make out by natural mediums , that the human authority of such a great body , as was that of the church , was absolutely certain , or infallible , in conveying down many visible and notorious matters of fact ; and , among the rest , ( or rather far above the rest , the subject being practical , and of infinite concern ) that such and such a doctrin was first taught to the age contiguous to the apostles , and continued ever since . by this means they resolv'd the doctrin of the present church into that of christ , and his authority ; and , consequently , ( these being suppos'd by both parties to be divine ) into the divine authority , granted by all to be the formal motive of divine faith. . this is the true state of that affair . and now , i beseech you , learned sir , where 's the polagianism ? where is the least ground , or shadow of ground , for all these bugbear words and false accusations , which , to make them sink deeper into the reader 's belief , and create a more perfect abhorrence of our tenet , come mask't here under an affected shew of godliness ? all hold their faith relies on the divine ( or christs ) authority , into which they finally resolve it : and all catholicks hold grace necessary to believe the mysteries of divine faith ; tho' all , perhaps , do not judge grace needful to believe upon human authority , this matter of fact , viz. that christ taught it . yet my self in * faith vindicated , seeing that the admitting this truth would oblige the heterodox to relinquish their ill-chosen tenets , and return to the church , against which they had a strong aversion ; did there declare my particular sentiment , that god's grace and some assistance of the holy ghost was requir'd , to make them willing to see the force even of this natural demonstration , so much against their humour and interest . is it pelagianism to conclude , that human motives , which are preliminaries to faith , and on which the assuredness of faith it self depends , as to us , are truly certain ? and , might you not with as much reason say the same , if one should maintain the absolute certainty of our senses , which is one of those preliminaries ? how strangely do you misrepresent every thing you are to meddle with ! how constantly do you make your voluntary mistake of every point serve for a confutation of it ! 't is confest , & ever was , that the human authority of the church , or tradition , begets only human faith , as its immediate effect ; but , by bringing it up to christ , it leads us to what 's divine ; yet not by its own force , but by vertue of the supposition agreed upon , that christ's doctrin is such . is it pelagianism to say , we must use our reason to come to faith ; or , do you pretend all the world must be the worst of phanaticks , and use none ? or , does it trouble you , we offer to justifie , that the reasons we bring to make good that preliminary , which , in our way of discoursing , is to introduce faith , are not such as may deceive us ? and that we do not confess they are fallible , or may deceive us , as you grant of your interpretations of scripture , which ground your belief ? no surely , we shall not quit the certainty we have , because you have none . for if it be not certain such doctrines are indeed christ's , who is our law-giver , we cannot be sure they are true ; their truth depending on his authority ; and , would you have us for fear of pelagianism confess all our faith may perhaps be but a story ? but , into what an unadvisedness does your anger transport you , to run the weapon through your own side to do us a mischief ? you bore us in hand ( first letter p. . ) that you had a larger and firmer tradition for scripture than we have for what we pretend to . yet , this tradition could cause no more but human faith ; for i do not think you will say you had divine faith , before you were got to your rule of divine faith. by your discourse then your self are an arrant pelagian too : perhaps worse than we , because you pretend to a larger and firmer ( human ) tradition than you say we have ; nay , you pretend it to be absolutely certain too , which is a dangerous point indeed . pray , have a care what you do ; for , you are upon the very brink of pelagianism . the knowing you have the true books of scripture , is a most necessary preliminary to your faith ; for , without knowing that , you cannot pretend to have any faith at all ; and , if it be pelagianism in us to hold such preliminaries absolutely certain , i fear the danger may come to reach you too . yet you have one way , and but one , to escape that damnable heresy ; which is , that you do not go about to demonstrate the absolute certainty of your tradition , as we do of ours . that , that is the very venom of pelagianism . but , take comfort , sir , my life for yours , you will never fall so abominably into the mire as to demonstrate or conclude any thing : ( for , what idaea soever you may frame of it , we mean no more by demonstrating , but plain honest concluding . ) your way of discoursing does not look as if it intended to conclude or demonstrate . 't is so wholly ( pass for as great a man as you will ) made up of mistakes , misrepresentations , petty cavils , witty shifts , untoward explications of your own words , constant prevarications , and many more such neat dexterities , that whatever fault it may through human frailty , provok't by powerful necessity , be liable to , i dare pawn my life it will never be guilty of that hainous crime of demonstrating or concluding any thing ; no , not the absolute certainty of your firmer tradition . and , yet , unless you can prove or conclude 't is thus certain , 't is a riddle to us , how can you either hold or say 't is such . pray , be not offended , if on this occasion i ask you a plain downright question . is it not equally blamable to falsify your adversaries tenet perpetually , as 't is to falsify his words ? nay , is it not worse , being less liable to discovery , and so more certainly and more perniciously injurious ? and can any thing excuse you from being thus faulty , but ignorance of our tenet ? i fear that plea will utterly sail you too , and leave you expos'd to the censure of every sincere reader , when i shew him to his eye that you could not but know all this before . for , in error non-plust p. . sect. . you must needs have read the quite contrary doctrine , and how those who maintain tradition do resolve their faith. [ there is no necessity then of proving this infallibility ( viz. of the church ) meerly by scripture interpreted by virtue of this infallibility . nor do the faithful or the church commit a circle in believing that the church is infallible , upon tradition . for , — they believe onely the supernatural infallibility built on the assistance of the holy ghost , that is on the church's sanctity ; and , this is prov'd by the human authority of the church to have been held ever from the beginning ; and the force of the human testimony of the church is prov'd by maxims of meer reason ] the same is more at large deliver'd in the foregoing section , and in divers other places . now , this book was writ against your self ; and , so , 't is as hardly conceiveable you should never have read it , as 't is unconceiveable how you should ever answer it : and , if you did read it , what was become of your sincerity when you counterfeited your ignorance of our tenet ? all is resolv'd ( say you , here , p. . ) into meer human faith , which is the unavoidable consequence of the doctrin of oral tradition . how shrewdly positive you are in your sayings , how modest and meek in your proofs ! nothing can be more manifest from our constantly avow'd doctrin , and your own opposing it too , than 't is , that tradition resolves all into christ's and the apostles teaching : and , pray , do you hold that christ is a meer man , or that the believing him is a meer human faith , or that the doctrin taught by him and them is meerly human ? if this be indeed your tenet , i am sorry i knew it not before ; for then i should have thought fit to begin with other principles to confute you : and , i pray god , by your impugning known truths , you may never need e'm . i see i had reason to alledge in faith vindicated , that the grace of god was requisit to make men assent to a natural conclusion when it came very cross to their interest : for , it appears too plain 't is exceedingly needful to assist you here in a meer point of common morality ; which is , to enable you not to speak and represent things directly contrary to your own knowledge . and , i am sorry i must tell you , and too evidently prove it , that the greatest part of your writings against catholicks , when the point is to be manag'd by reason , is ( in a manner ) made up of such study'd insincerities . you give us another instance of this indisposition of your will , p. . where you tell us mr. m. says , that the first thing which was propos'd , and indeed the onely subject mr. g. had any purpose to discourse on was , whether protestants had a ground of absolute certainty for their faith or not ? this you do not deny ; but turn it off to a quite different business ; and then slide from that to another , till you had wheel'd about the question from what was intended to the point you thought best serv'd your turn to shuffle in . here ( say you ) the faith spoken of is that faith whereby we are christians . how ? are protestants and christians then convertible terms or synonyma's ? are there not many sorts of christians which are not protestants ? and is it not plain , and not contradicted by your self , that it was demanded , whether ( your ) protestants had a ground of absolute certainty for their ( that is protestant ) faith ? does not the word [ their ] signify theirs as distinct from all other sorts of christians ? and is it come now to signify theirs simply as christians , or as conjoyn'd with all the rest ? this is too open dodging to pass upon the reader . 't is granted , you hold many of the same christian points which catholicks do ; but 't is deny'd , you can as you are protestants ( i mean still such protestants as are of your principles ) hold them to be absolutely certain , or hold them upon such grounds as are able to support that firm and unalterable assent , call'd faith : the grounds proper to your protestants being ( as was shewn in my former letter , sect. . ) to hold them upon the letter interpreted by your selves . of which letter , by virtue of your principles , you can have no absolute certainty ( as shall be shewn hereafter ; ) and of that letter interpreted by your private iudgments , much less . in a word , either you speak of points held by protestants , which you pretend to be all the same doctrin that was taught by christ and his apostles ; and then you are distinguisht not onely from those christians call'd catholicks , but from socinians , lutherans , and ( to omit others ) calvinists too , if you be one of those that hold episcopacy to be of divine right : or else you mean the assent , given to those points of protestant faith , on their pretended rule ; and then , you must shew your assent is more absolutely certain than that of the three last , and divers others who dissent from you in their tenets , and yet go upon the same rule ; and make it out to us , that , tho' it be both theirs and yours , yet still ' t is yours in particular , or peculiarly yours , as you are such protestants . . your next prevarication is much worse . after you had shov'd protestant faith into christian faith , you throw it a barr and a half further off by virtue of an id est . absolute certainty of the christian faith : i. e. ( say you ) of the grounds on which we believe the scripture to contain the word of god , or all things necessary to be believ'd by us in order to salvation . this id est , like pacolets wooden horse , has a charm to transfer us from one pole to the other in an instant . by virtue of its all-powerful magick , christian faith is made to be the same with the grounds on which we believe the scripture to contain the word of god ; so that , according to you , faith is the same with your grounds for scripture's being your ground ; that is , faith is made the same with the grounds for your ground of faith. what a medley of sense is this , and how many folds have we here involving one another ! christian faith is divine , these grounds and the faith built on them is human , being the testimony of men : are these two the same notion ? had i a mind to be quarrelsome , how easily , how justly too , might i retort your former calumny against tradition ; and object that this way of yours resolves all into meer human faith , meer natural reason , that it makes god's grace and assistance of the holy ghost unnecessary to faith ; and then ask , is this the faith christians are to be sav'd by ? and reckon up twenty other absurdities springing from this ill-grounded position . but i am now to trace your transferring faculty . in your first letter p. . you speak onely of absolute certainty as to the rule of your faith , viz. the scripture ; but here the case is alter'd ; and certainty of scripture is turn'd into certainty of the grounds on which we believe the scripture to contain the word of god. these slippery doings , and not any reasons you bring , make you inconfutable ; for , we must set upon the proteus in all his shapes ere we can bind him . the question is not , whether scripture contains the word of god , that is , his sense , or our faith , but ( which we cannot mind you of too often , for all will be too little to make you take notice of it ) how the sense contain'd there can be got out thence , or be signify'd to us with absolute certainty , even in the very highest points of christian faith , and what grounds you have to bring about this effect : for , you can profess no absolute certainty of any one point , till you have made it out with absolute certainty , that the sense , you pretend contain'd in scripture is it 's genuin meaning . this is your true task , if you would prove the absolute certainty of your protestant faith , or your faith as depending on your principles . but of this we hear not a syllable . . and i beseech you , to what end is it to tell us you are speaking of your rule or ground of faith , if it carry you not thorow to any one particular ; no , not those points which are most fundamental , and so most necessary for the salvation of mankind ? since , notwithstanding you have your rule , you are still as far to seek as before in all a rule should be good for ? remember , the question and mr. t 's expectation was about the absolute certainty of protestant faith , by vertue of your rule or ground ; and , therefore , if your rule does not reach to absolute certainty of the main points of faith at least , you are still at a loss both for your faith , and for a ground of your faith. yet this , conscious of it's failure , you seem unwilling to stand to , by still sliding silently over it , or slipping by it when it lies just in your way . for , you tell us , pag. . that your faith rests on the word of god as its absolute ground of certainty . which by the way is another little shuffle ; for you should have said absolutely-certain ground , not absolute ground of certainty . but let that pass , and let the horse-mill go for the mill-horse . you proceed . but the particular ▪ * certainty as to this or that doctrine , depends on the evidence that it is contain'd in scripture . you ought to have said , if you would make your faith so certain as you pretended [ we are absolutely certain such and such particular points are contain'd there ] otherwise your general ground comes not up to the question , nor does your faith any service at all , since it leaves it still vncertain ; of which more hereafter . especially , since you pretended , or rather declar'd openly , p. . that you now held all the same doctrin that was taught by christ and his apostles : which profession reaches to all the points of faith , and not onely to your ground of faith. i must confess you render'd that profession insignificant , and cancell'd the obligation as soon as you had made it , in the explication of those words immediately following ; which makes those hearty expressions [ absolutely certain of all the same doctrin ] amount to no more , but that you resolve your faith into scripture . we must , i see , deal with you as those who have a pretence in court do with great courtiers ; who lose their repute with them as ill-bred , and unmannerly , if they will needs take them at their word , and do not distinguish between what 's spoken and what 's meant . your answer was very honest and direct [ we are absolutely certain we now hold all the same doctrin that was taught by christ and his apostles . the comment is this , [ i fram'd my answer on purpose to shew that our faith is not to be resolv'd into what christ taught , any otherwise than as it is convey'd to us by the writings of the apostles & evangelists . ] whereas , if there be so much as one word of [ writing or evangelists ] even hinted in your answer it self ( unless the word taught meant writ , which cannot be because we never read that christ writ any books ) or the least semblance of reason , for making this skewing explication , but to shuffle off your too large concession , i will confess my self too shallow to fathom the profound depth of your inscrutable sense . resolve then your faith , in god's name , into what you will , so you but shew us an absolutely certain connexion , between the points resolved , and the rule into which you profess to resolve it : otherwise 't is no resolution of faith , if the continued chain of motives winding it up to the first truth , or god's infinite veracity , hangs slack . such incoherence serves not for faith , which must be indissolubly connected to the formal motive of all our faith ; else the resolution of it may be shatter'd , and broke to pieces by the way , ere we come there . which if it may , then the resolution is no resolution , for that speaks connexion of the motives ; and , faith thus resolv'd may perhaps all be false , and so is no faith. 't is your work then to shew in particular , when you come to it , and at present in general , that your rule gives you absolute certainty of the points of faith , more than it does the socinian , who have the same rule , and profess to follow it as much as you do for your heart , and yet erre enormously . nay , in effect they take the same method too to interpret scripture which you do ; for , tho' you give good words to the consent of former ages , yet your grounds do not allow it absolute certainty in bringing down doctrin or interpreting scripture ; and less than such a certainty , and in such things , signifies nothing in our case . and 't is either by your rule and method , you can arrive thus certainly at the sense of scripture , or by nothing . if you could once with absolute certainty convince the socinians of obstinacy against a clear truth by your rule , or method , or both together ; i mean , if you could make it clear to them that your rule of faith , cannot possibly bear any other sense , so that the indifferent part of the world judg'd them wilful adherers to a false interpretation , or that you could silence them , and put them to open shame for adhering to it , you would do somthing ▪ otherwise , your starting aside still from the absolute certainty of the points , even tho' p. . you pretended to be absolutely certain you hold them all , and talking to us of nothing but a general ground , is meer shuffling ; and shews plainly you meant not really in that answer of yours to mr. g's first question , where you spoke of all the doctrin ; which includes every particular point ; so that by all it seems you meant none . 't is very paradoxical to see you distinguish here ( p. ) between the doctrin taught by christ , and that which was taught by the apostles . the reason why you do it , is to insinuate into our readers that we derive the source of our tradition from christ's teaching orally ( as the iews affirm of moses delivering an unwritten law ) else to what purpose this distinction ? the tradition we lay claim to has no such obscure original ; it takes it's ●ife from the whole body of primitive christians in the apostles days , dispers't in great multitudes over the world , and settled in the knowledge of his faith by means of their preaching . so that tradition starts into motion from a most publick , and notorious matter of fact , viz. that the apostles taught the first christians such a faith. to what imaginable purpose then was this frivolous distinction brought in ? you knew this was our tenet ; and we knew well your rule was scripture . what needed then this shuffling paraphrase ? by tradition , you know we mean a testimony for doctrin receiv'd . if the source be weak , or that the body of the witnessers of it's delivery at first , and successively afterwards , was smal , the tradition is , consequently , weak in proportion ; if great , it was stronger still , according as the multitude of the attesters was more numerous , and their credibleness more unexceptionable . well , but admit your faith be not resolv'd into what christ taught by his own mouth , but what the apostles taught us from him , why must you necessarily resolve your faith into their writings only ? did the apostles when they went to convert the world go with books in their hands , or words in their mouths ? or were those words a jot less sacred when it came from their mouths , than when they put them in a book ? or , lastly , does any command from christ appear to write the book of scripture , or any revelation before hand that it was to be a rule of faith to the future church ? no such matter : and the accidental occasions of it's writing at first , and it's acceptation afterwards , bar any such pretences ? on the other side , their grand commission was not scribite , but only predicate evangelium . yet , you can slubber this over without taking notice of it , and carry it as if the apostles teaching mean't writing only , and that they taught the world no more than they writ . sure you do not mean the apostles took texts out of their own books , and preacht sermons upon then as you do now . why must it be quite forgotten then , and buried in silence , that they taught any thing by word of mouth or preacht the gospel publickly ? allow that to be equally sacred as what is writ , and to be embrac't if well attested , and blame the attestation , and tradition as it may be found to deserve ; but still , when you would put your own tenet as distinguish 't from ours , be so kind as to put ours too ; and do not stand talking to us , and fooling your readers , with the rabbies pretended tradition from moses his mouth : no more like ours than an apple is like an oyster . again , this resolution of your faith gives every one absolute certainty of his faith , who believes he has absolute certainty of scripture's letter , and that it contains the word of god. and yet experience tells us that whole bodys of learned men believe all this , and yet differ ( that is , one side errs ) in the highest mysteries of christian faith. whence follows , that both sides , by this doctrin , are absolutely certain of their faith ; one side ( for example ) is absolutely certain there is a trinity , and that christ is god ; the other , that there is no trinity , and that christ is not god. this seems but a very odd account of the certainty of protestant faith. . but you refine upon your self , in your answer to the d question . p. . it was ask't there [ by what certain rule do you know that the new testament which we now have , does contain all the divine revelations of christ , and his apostles ? this question evidently aims at two things : viz. first whether some books writ by the apostles were not lost ; ( as appears by those words which we now have : ) for if they were , then , being penn'd by men divinely inspir'd , they must necessarily contain some divine revelations in them too , as well as did the other ; and then how does it appear there were not more or other revelations , contain'd in them than were contain'd in the books now extant ? the other is , that you know well very many hold that diverse divine revelations were deliver'd down by tradition , and not all by writing . let 's see now how your answer sutes with this question . by the vniversal testimony ( say you ) of the christian church from the apostles times downwards . this reply , if pertinent to that question , must mean that this vniversal testimony ascertains us , that the scriptures we have now , contains all the divine revelations . but , when you come to explain your self , it comes to no more but that , the testimony of the apostolical , and the succeeding churches did by degrees make men fix upon the certain canon of the new testament . what a flight have you taken on a sudden ! where will you pitch when you light ? i am sure not on the place where you took wing , and where you ought to have stay'd . for , what is their testimony for the books we now have , to the books which have or may have prerish't and to their containing some other divine revelations ? or , what is the fixing upon the certain canon of the books to the difficulty , whether some divine revelations did not descend by tradition without writing ? do the apostolical or succeeding churches testify either of these ? or , do you so much as pretend they do ? not a syllable of this do you say or take notice of ▪ and , so , not a syllable have you answer'd to his question . which was not about the canon of scripture , or how you would resolve your faith , with which you keep such a pother over and over ; but , whether the new testament we have now , contain'd all the divine revelations ? if you explicate scripture no better for your faith , than you do your own words here , you will questionless make a very extraordinary piece of work of it . your answers come now and then pretty home , the smartness of the questions obliging you to it ; but , your explications of them immediately after , seem purposely fram'd that we should not take you at your word in your answers . . that answer then prevaricating from the whole question , mr. g. endeavour'd to press for a pertinent return to what was demanded ; and therefore puts his fourth question thus . was that vniversal testimony an infallible rule to assure us certainly down to our time , that the new testament contain'd all the divine revelations of christ and his apostles ? your answer was . the vniversal testimony of the christian church concerning the book of scripture and the doctrin contain'd therein , is a sufficient ground to make us certain of all matters necessary to our salvation . . here are many things worth our admiration . in the first letter p. . this universal testimony was onely to ascertain the scripture . in the answer to the third question here , 't is onely to assure us that the new testament contains all the divine revelations : but , here it is to certify us of the doctrine too contain'd in it : which , if you mean as your words seem to sound , is all we require in our tradition-rule . there may be some other subtle meaning lying yet coucht in those words , which time may discover ; tho' we cannot yet , till he that made the lock bring the key . again , 't is ask't if it be an infallible rule ? t is answered , t is a sufficient ground . t is ask't , whether this testimony assures us certainly the new testament contains all the divine revelations ? t is answer'd , it makes us certain of all matters necessary to our salvation : which is clearly intended for a diminishing expression , and argues some fear of undertaking for all the divine revelations being contain'd there , or all the doctrin that was taught by christ and his apostles , as was pretended p. . one would verily imagin by this unsutable answer , that dr. st. and mr. g. were playing at cross-purposes , the answer is so wide from the question , at least that there is some indirect design lies lurking ; it being so opposite to the wayes of honest nature . when one asks a positive question , all mankind expects a positive answer to the very words as they ly , i , or no : or , if the words be ambiguous , 't is the duty of the answerer to desire to be satisfied of the meaning of the asker , if present , ere he answers ; without which , in that case , 't is impossible to reply pertinently . but , it is not your temper nor interest to use such clear and open candour . for , you saw that great multitudes had the letter thus secur'd to them , yet had not absolute certainty that all the divine revelations are contain'd in it ; therefore by adding [ and the doctrin contain'd therein ] you had some faint hopes you might be safe . again , you saw well , that , should you grant universal testimony to be an infallible rule , you would hazard to grant too much to tradition , and all the learned jests you have broke upon us for asserting infallibility would fly back upon your self : therefore grant it you durst not . nor , yet durst you deny it to be an infallible rule ; for then ( since one of the two it must forcibly be ) you must affirm it to be a fallible rule : and then the common sence of all mankind ( mr. t. amongst the rest ) would be justly scandaliz'd at the non sense : for an intellectual ground that may perhaps let sink into falsity , and overturn what 's built on it , deserves not the name of a ground ; and a rule which may perhaps mislead me when i follow it , is in reality no rule : besides , should you declare 't is a fallible rule , men would wonder with what sense you could pretend that a fallible testimony ( nay , which you confess to be such ) can make you absolutely certain of the thing it attests : it being the same as to profess i grant they may all be deceiv'd in what they tell me , yet i am absolutely certain , by their very testimony , that what they tell me is true. what could you do then in that perplexity , being neither in condition to allow infallibility , nor avow fallibility ; and standing gor'd with both the horns of the dilemma or contradiction ? why , you were forc't to call in your constant and dear friend [ sufficient certainty ] to help you out at a dead plunge . for , this is able to do more than miracle ; this can divide an indivisible , and put a middle betwixt two contradictories ; by shewing the world a certainty , that is neither infallible nor fallible , but between both , or mixt of both ; we may imagin , half the one , half the other . lastly , fearing that you would be driven at length ( as you must ) to bring your rule home to particular points , and knowing t●e socinians , and other late-sprung heretical congregations ( whom you ought to acknowledge christian churches , since they hold stiffly to that which you maintain here is the onely rule of christian faith ) deny'd many of those , which you hold divine revelations , to be contain'd in scripture ; nay , on the contrary , hold they are excluded thence ; and that the opposit● tenets are contain'd there ; therefore you very prudently and warily chang'd [ all the divine revelations ] which were the words of the question , into [ all matters necessary for our salvation ▪ ] providing thus a security for their souls at least , tho' you could not for their errours ; and a kind of excuse for the incertainty of your rule , which permitted the followers of it to run astray ; and withal , a retreat for your self . in all which dexterous alterations , as this due commendation must be allow'd you , to have acted very wisely and politickly ; so it must be absolutely deny'd you have given any answer at all to the question . the words which you would obtrude upon us for an answer , carry indeed a pretty shew , and shift it off with much cunning ; but when we come to look into their sense , with an eye directed to the question , they squint aside to quite other matters ; and the whole reply , in a manner , is made up of different notions from what was ask't . nor can i liken the replies you generally make to our questions , or the explications you make of your own answers , to any thing better than to that mock exposition of the first verse in genesis , which luther made for your friend zuinglius's iinterpretation of hoc est corpus meum . deus ( god ) that is a cuckow ; creavit ( created ) that is , devoured ; coelum & terram ( heaven and earth ) that is a hedge sparrow with bones , and feathers and all . . you put a pretty similitude indeed to illustrate your own tenet ; but in reference to our main question , the absolute certainty of your kind of protestant faith by your grounds , 't is so far from running on four legs , that it is in many regards , lame on the right , ( and indeed onely ) foot it ought to stand on , and ( which is worse ) is perhaps against your self . you resemble the holy scripture to a purse full of gold and silver ; left by a father , and entrusted to executours ; who tell his son , this is all his father left him ; and , if they deal truly with him , do certainly deliver all it contains . this the primitive church , christ's executours , did , by delivering us the scripture ; and assuring us all divine truths , which respect mans salvation , were contain'd there in the lump ; among which , some were gold points , some sylver points ; but , having the purse of scripture , we have the one as well as the other , and , consequently , all matters necessary to our salvation , these being of greatest moment . thus stands the similitude , for , run it cannot ; and the summ of it ( as far as i apprehend it ) amounts to this ; that , because scripture contains all , and protestants have scripture , therefore , they have all . a strange kind of discourse ! as if , because they have it in a book , therefore , they have it in their minds or souls , in which , and , no where else , faith is to reside . and as if a man , were a jot the more learned , for having purchast aristotles works , and reading , and not understanding them . . i could except against divers particulars , presum'd on , in this similitude ; as , that you have any absolute certainty of your having the whole scripture that was writ , or , that it contains all divine revelations ; or , that you have the right copy , to every material particle in it , that may signify faith , that is , indeed , right scripture , &c. ( or the right purse , &c. but , i am more concern'd for some plausible insinuations in this similitude , which may hazard to corrupt the reader 's judgment . for , however , you decline and avoid it , yet the generality of readers , whenever they hear any speech of the certainty of the grounds of their faith , they immediately apprehend they are to be certain of the particular points of their faith by vertue of those grounds . and , 't is a common errour in many , of an indifferent good judgment , ( i wish it did not sway with some who pass for great schollars ) that , when a thing easily sinks into their apprehension , they are apt to conceit it to be a truth . when , therefore they hear of a purse , which is a thing very easy to open , ( it being no more but pulling two strings which use to run very glib ; ) and , that scripture is in many regards , here compar'd to a purse ; they are presently inclin'd to fancy , that , scripture's sense is as easy to be come at , as 't is to take money out of a purse : 't is but plucking those easily following strings , and the deed is done . but , alas ! here lies all the difficulty . the arians , novatians , socinians , &c. have all of them this purse , yet are never the richer ; but , for want of skill to open it , and get the gold and silver thence , they go away empty , or worse . now , certainly , those high points , viz. a trinity , christ's divinity ; the real presence , &c. should deserve to be reckon'd amongst the golden ones ; and , therefore , should be as most valuable , so most easily attainable ; being of the highest import for the church , or the body of christianity . yet , 't is granted the socinians err in the two first of those points , for all their acuteness and wit. i except next against the resembling the contents of it to gold and silver ; which certainly enrich those who are possessours of such a purse : whereas , those sects lay claim to that purse too with equal title , yet , coming to open it by their interpretation , they take the dross of errour for the pure gold of truth , and soul-poysoning heresies for means of salvation . had i a mind to set up a similitude-mender , and , that you will needs have it a purse , i should beg your leave to put it thus : suppose that purse's mouth were tyed up with a knot of such a mysterious contrivance , that none could open it ( i mean still , as to the understanding the mysteries of our faith ) but those who knew the mind of the bequeather ; and , that the church , to which it was left as a legacy , had knowledge of his mind , and so could open it ; while others tortur'd their wits with little tricks and inventions , turning and winding the ambiguous folds of it , some one way , some another ; and yet entangled their own thoughts , more and more , while they went about to unty the knots that so perplex't them . . this is the true case . you make account containing does all the business ; whereas , 't is nothing at all to our purpose , which is ( in the final intention of it ) about the absolute certainty of your faith ; unless we have equal assurance that you can get out thence what 's contain'd there , as you pretend to have , that 't is contain'd . now , it cannot be deny'd , but the primitive church was imbu'd with christ's sense by the preaching of the apostles and their immediate successours ; and so had a sure and proper way to interpret scripture ; and , while this sense was still deliver'd down , they could not fail of an absolutely certain rule to understand it right . but , there steps up now one heretick , then another , opposing himself to the sense of the church ; and , relying on the dextery of his own wit , will needs find out contrivances how to open the scripture's meaning by wayes of his private skill : but falls into multitudes of errours , finding no way to unfold the deeply-mysterious book ; having refus'd to make use of the right means , viz. christ's sense descending in the church by tradition . whence , notwithstanding all his little arts and boasting presumption like the fox in the fable , vas lambit , pultem non attingit . . mistake me not : i do not mean scriptures letter is not clear in such passages as concern common morality , or the ten commandments ; with the sense of which every one is imbu'd by the light of nature . nor in matters of fact , such as were most of those marks or signs to know the messias by , foretold us by the prophets ; our saviour's doing such and such miracles , his going beyond iordan , &c. nor in parables explain'd by himself , and such like . but , in dogmatical points or tenets , which are spiritual , and oftentimes profound mysteries , ( and , of these , by the way , i desire still to be understood , when i speak of the certainty of the letter or sense of scripture , for with other passages i meddle not ) as the tenet of a trinity , christ's god-head , the real presence of his body in the sacrament ; and such like ; which have a vast influence upon christian life ; either immediately , or else in a higher nature , being ( as it were ) principles to many other articles of faith , which depend on their truth : one would verily think , i say , that such as these should be some of your golden points , or else there were none at all contain'd in your purse : yet , we experience , that even in such as these , your rule is not intelligible enough to keep the followers of it from erring . so that , let your purse have never so golden and silver a lining , you are never the richer , unless you can come at it , or can certainly distinguish the pure gold of truth from the impure dross of errour . your similitude then comes not home to your purpose , nor shews that you have therefore all your faith , or all divine revelations , because you have a book which you judge contains them . let 's see now if it does not make against you . you put the doctrin ( or points ) of faith to be the gold and silver contain'd in the purse ; and , consequently that must be the purse into which that doctrin of faith was put by christ our saviour ; and this was evidently the heads , and hearts of the faithful . for the points of faith , being so many divine truths , are onely contain'd in men's minds properly ; and , words being , by their very definition , but signes of what is in our minds , truths are no more really in a book , than wine is really in a bush which signifies it . since then those truths were onely in the breast of christ originally , and , after him , in that of the apostles ; and their thoughts could not be communicated , nor consequently the gold and silver deliver'd to the legatees , otherwise than by signifying it , which can onely be done by one of these ways , by living voice and practice , or by writing ; that is by tradition or scripture , neither of these can with any sense be liken'd to the purse it self , into which the money is to be put , or answer comparatively to it ; but they are both of them wayes , means or methods of putting these heavenly riches into it's proper purse , the souls of the faithful . of these two ways our saviour chose the first ; which was teaching his doctrin orally , for he writ nothing ; and by doing thus , told us it was the better : for , it had been against his infinit wisdom to chuse the worser way for himself to make use of , and leave the better to his servants . nor , did his servants , the apostles , affect the way of writing , so as to use it onely ; but , on the contrary , they made use of this oral way of preaching constantly , and that of writing ( for the most part at least , if not altogether ) occasionally . they converted the present church by their preaching ; they comforted the future church by leaving many most edifying words , and actions of our blessed saviour , written ; which being particulars , and not breaking out openly into christian practice , might otherwise in likelihood , ( at least to a great degree ) have been lost to succeeding generations ; besides the abetment their writings give to faith it self , when certainly interpreted , and rightly understood . so that , according to this discourse of yours we should either have never a purse to put points of faith in , for you take no notice of the souls of the faithful into which they are properly put , and in which onely they are in reality contain'd : or , if you will needs call that a purse which contains them meerly as a sign does the thing signify'd , or as that which may signify to us our faith , you must put two purses : tradition and scripture : and then the onely question is , out of which purse , we can with more certainty get it . that is , whether a living container , which can give us perfect light of it's sense by * all the best ways imaginable ; or the dead letter , which , as experience demonstrates , can neither clear it's sense to private understandings ; nor , if we doubt of it's meaning , and had a mind to ask it , could either hear or reply , much less pertinently , and appositely speak to the asker as oft as he had occasion to press still for satisfaction . again , the written instrument or means of putting this heaven-stampt coyn in our souls , is an ignoble instrument in comparison ; being in reality , as to it 's material part , or taken as abstracted from the sacred sense which is signify'd by it , nothing but ink thus figur'd on paper . whereas , the material part of the other is the most noble that can be found under heaven it self : viz. the church which all christians must acknowledge to be the spouse of christ , the pillar and ground of truth , and consisting of the living temples of the holy ghost ; that , for whose edification the scripture was writ ; and , so , holds proportion with it as the means does with the end , which is in a manner infinit . nay , that , for which all the material world was created , and the oeconomy of it still carry'd on , from the first beginning of time to it's last period . lastly , that for whose sake god himself was made man , and dy'd a most cruel death on a cross. so that 't is unconceivable , that it can enter into the thoughts of any intelligent man who believes this to be the due character of the church , there should be any competition betwixt the letter of scripture and it ; or that it can possibly be doubted to which of them ( all things consider'd ) we ought to attribute most in looking after faith. but , to return to your similitude . the sum of it is this : that the gold and silver you speak of , being the doctrin of faith ; not the scripture , but the heads , and hearts of the faithful , ( that is , of the church ) does really and indeed contain it ; and , consequently , this onely can with any propriety be compar'd to a purse . that , both tradition and scripture are to be liken'd to the several ways of putting the heavenly treasure of faith , into this purse , or faith into the souls of the faithful . lastly , that taking them as containing them , as signes do the things signify'd , it is not their containing this treasure does us any good , but the delivering it out to us ; no more than a man is better for having a trunk full of money so circumstanc't that he could never come at it : and , that , between these two ways of coming at this treasure , or their delivering it out to us there is no comparison , whether we regard the intelligibleness , or providential establishment of those respective instruments in order to such an end. so that your similitude , how prettily soever it look't at first , hath one misfortune very common to such fine useless toys , that is , to be good for nothing ; for it neither comes up to the question , nor sutes with your own tenet . . but ere we part from this point , it were not amiss to examin a little that cautious expression of yours [ all things necessary for salvation ] into which you change that bold assertion that you are absolutely certain you now hold all the same doctrin that was taught by christ and his apostles . i ask you then , what do you mean by those words [ necessary for salvation ] which mince the matter so warily ? do you think christ taught any unnecessary points , or did a needless action ! sure you will not say it . and yet my self will grant too , and agree with you that fewer means than the knowledge of all christ taught , may suffice for the salvation of some particular persons . what follows then , but , that , since they are all necessary for some body , and yet not all necessary for every particular person , more of them are necessary for one man than for another , and all of them necessary for the body of the church : whose pastours are to instruct their children in them , and apply the efficacy of them to their souls , as their capacities admit , and exigencies require . for , tho' some few may be saved without the knowledge of such & such points , ( slender motives being enough for their circumstances , ) yet multitudes of others may require incomparably more effectual means , to buoy them up from the world , and raise them to heaven ; and so , they would certainly miscarry for want of them . particularly , the points now mention'd , are of such a high and general influence , that , without these , the devotion of a very great portion of the church , would be enfeebled , many of the souls that want them be lost eternally , and others be but dim stars in the glorious firmament of heaven , in comparison of what they might have been , had their minds been cultivated with such elevating considerations . and , can the church , which god has entrusted with those souls , think that 't is agreeable to his will , his flock should either dy , or fall short of the full growth they might have had in the plentiful pastorage he had provided for them ? it rests then for you , either to shew those points not necessary for the generality , and that your grounds are sufficient to give men , both as able and as willing ( for ought appears ) to understand scripture right as your self is , absolute certainty of them ( which is to confute experience , and dispute against your own knowledge , ) or else to confess ingenuously you have no absolute certainty of even the highest fundamentals , and most necessary points for the salvation of mankind . . thus much to shew that your rule gives you no absolute certainty of all such matters as are necessary for your salvation , with reference to the points of faith ; to certify which , experience assures us it does not reach . now , should we speak of the assent of faith , the short discourse , p. , . of my former letter , demonstrates clearly you can have no absolute certainty of any one , and so cannot with reason affirm your faith is true ; since , wanting absolute certainty that christ taught it , it may be false . the same point has been prest upon you in faith vindicated , reason against raillery , errour non-plust , and diverse other books : yet tho' it was the most important objection that is or can be imagin'd , as plucking up by the roots all your faith , and destroying it from it's very foundation ; no return could ever yet be obtain'd , nor candid reason produc't , but onely a put-off with sufficient certainty , and such dow-bak't words ; without being able or even endeavouring , to shew that grounds less than absolutely certain can possibly be thus sufficient for the nature , the ends and vses of faith. but 't is high time to return to our disputants . . against this pretended answer of yours , you introduce mr. m. suggesting several things . first , as to difference of translations . to which you reply . doth mr. m. think our faith is to be resolv'd into the original texts ? what he thinks , you know better than you would seem to do . he cannot but think , if he may believe you , that you resolve your faith into the letter of scripture . he cannot but think that by these words you mean the right letter ; for , otherwise , it would not be scripture : nor can he think , or you either , it can be the right letter , unless it have a right translation , and this , from a true copy ; nor that any copy can be true , unless conformable to the true original . and , if there can be any failure in any of these , nay , if you have not absolute certainty of all these , you cannot have ( by your grounds ) any absolute certainty of your faith : for , if the letter be wrong , all is wrong that is built on it : and it may be wrong , for ought you know , notwithstanding the testimony of all christian churches relying on this way of attesting the truth of the letter . for , you can never shew that all those churches consented to apply their utmost diligence to examine and attest all the several translations , made in their respective languages ; or witnest that they came from the true original ; or took the most exquisit care that was possible , to see that the translaters and the copiers did their duty . which , had they held the letter to be their onely rule of faith , and , consequently , that all faith , that is , the very being of the present and future church , and their own salvation too , depended on the scripture , they were obliged in conscience , and under the highest sin , above all things in the world , to have done ; and this , with the exactest care imaginable : your grounds then , notwithstanding all you have said or alledged hitherto to ensure the letter , make no provision for the absolute certainty of the written-rule , nor consequently of your faith. . but what becomes then ( say you ) of the vulgar latin translation ? i answer , in our grounds no harm at all : for the canon of the books comes down by the testimony of all christian churches that are truly christian ; and the doctrin of christ , transfus'd into the hearts of the succeeding faithful ever since the beginning , both taught them how , and oblig'd them to correct the copy in those particular texts that concern'd faith , if any errour through the carelesness , unattentiveness or malice of the translaters or transcribers at any time had crept in . by the same means as you can now adays correct the copy in those texts , that ought to express some point of morality , in case it were corrupted , and deviated from christian manners ; viz. by vertue of the sense of that practical tenet you were imbu'd with formerly ; & this , even tho' you had no other copy or text to amend it by : insomuch that , how good an opinion so ever you had of the copy , translater , printer or correcter of the press ; yet , for all that , you would conclude they had err'd , and the letter was faulty , rather than forgo the doctrin so firmly rivetted in your heart by the constant teaching and practice of the christian world . as for other particular texts of an inferiour concern , they could be best corrected by multitudes of other ancient copies ( the churches care still going along ) in which too the greatest care that was possible to rectify it's errours was taken by the council of trent , that so it might be as exact as human diligence could well render it . a thing , as far as my memory reaches , never order'd or very much regarded by any council formerly . . but i foresee , your method of confuting ( which is to muster up extrinsecall objections not at all to the purpose ) will naturally lead you to discredit this way of correcting scripture's letter in passages belonging to faith , as singular or new ; this being the same your friend g. b. objected to the way of tradition it self ; as may be seen above , sect. . such piddling exceptions , drest up prettily in gay language , go a great way , and make a fine shew in your controversies ; and , which is a benefit of most advantage to you , excuse you from bringing any intrinsecal arguments ; tho' these onely are such as conclude any thing , and tho' you are bound by your precise duty to produce such : wherefore , to ward this blow , i shall alledge the judgment of that learned , and excellent personage , sir thomas more , our first modern english controvertist ; who , writing , not against you in defence of our grounds , but to another catholick divine , expresses candidly his sentiment in these words . [ ego certe hoc persuadeo mihi , idque ( ut opinor ) vere ; quicquid ad fidem astruendam faciat , non esse a quovis melius versum , quam ab ipsis apostolis perscriptum . ideoque fit ut , quoties in latinis codicibus occurrat quidquam quod aut contra fidem aut mores facere videatur ; scripturarum interpretes aut ex aliis alibi verbis quid illud sibi velit dubium expiscentur ; aut ad vivum evangelium fidei , quod per universam ecclesiam in corda fidelium infusum est ; quod etiam , priusquam scriberetur a quoquam , apostolis a christo , ab apostolis vniverso mundo praedicatum est , dubios ejusmodi sermones applicent , atque ad inflexibilem veritatis regulam examinent : ad quam si non satis adaptare queant , aut sese non intelligere , aut mendosum esse codicem , non dubitent . ] this is my iudgment , and ( as i conceive ) a true one ; that whatever ( text ) is useful to build faith on , was not better translated by any than it was writ by the apostles themselves . and therefore , as oft as any thing occurs in the latin-books , that seems to make against faith or good manners , the interpreters of scripture , either gather from other words in other places what that doubt should mean ; or they compare those doubtful sayings to the living gospel of faith , which was infus'd into the hearts of the faithful , throughout the vniversal church ; & which , before any man writ it , was preach't by christ to the apostles , and by the apostles to the whole world ; & examine them by the inflexible rule of faith ; with which if they cannot make it square , they conclude , that either they do not understand it , or the book is faulty ] where he passes by the former way with a sleight word [ expiscentur ] fish out the sense ; but insists on the latter way of preserving the copy sincere , as certain and proper . . i must not pretermit your objection p. . that the ancient christian church never knew any thing concerning this method of resolving faith into meer oral tradition . i would desire you to add [ practical ] to oral ; at least to conceive it to be understood all the way , that being our true and constantly-avow'd tenet . but , did the antient church , in reality , never know any thing of this way ? t is wonderful you should not understand they meant the same as we do , unless they speak the self-same words , and make the same discourses we do now . did not they all hold , that who taught any thing contrary to the doctrin delivered down by the church , was a heretick ? did any of them say that the churche's tradition of a doctrin , as christs , was liable to errour ? did any of them hold that it was lawful for your sober enquirer to rely on his private interpretation of the scripture , and relinquish the sense of the church , which is the true point ? not one . 't is one thing to say they oft quoted scripture against hereticks , who had rejected the authority of the church , ( even the council of trent does so ; ) another , to say they had no firmer ground for their faith , but their own private iudgments of it's sense . t is one thing to give it high commendations for it's excellency , divine doctrin , usefulness and sufficiency for the ends for which it was ordained by god : 't is another , to say that , in those places which relate to spiritual points and high mysteries of our faith , it is so clear , that , private fancies can with absolute certainty fix upon it's true sense , and , on that , ground their faith. t is one thing to say sometimes , 't is plain and evident , when they are arguing against hereticks : this is a thing not unusual even among us , when we are disputing , and have an opinion that what we alledge is manifest ; and those fathers or councils which insisted on it , had good reason to have that opinion of what they alledg'd , having the doctrin of faith , ( scripture's best interpreter ▪ ) in their hearts : besides , when there is full assurance of it's sense , who doubts but it is of a vast authority too ; being in that case the same as if the apostle or christ himself were there , and spoke his mind in the point under debate . whence they confuted hereticks with defining from scripture ; upon the assurance that they had the true sense of it another way , than the heretick had by his private interpretations . but , 't is another thing to say , that , as manag'd by private judgments , working on the bare letter , or relying on fallible interpreters , it is so unavoidably convictive , beyond all possibility of giving it another plausible sense , that all mankind must think him a renouncer of the clear light of reason , or stark blind with passion and interest , and abhorr him as such , who shall interpret it after another manner . and such the rule of faith must be , otherwise , none could with conscience think or say any heretick is obstinate , nor any man ( no not the church it self ) condemn him , much less abhorr him for being , such , as was ever her custome . all the former perfections we as heartily , fully , and constantly ascribe to scripture as any protestant in the world : nay , we say moreover , that this want of clearness which unqualifies it for being a rule , springs from a very high perfection in it ; viz. it 's deep sense ; onely this one , of giving every particular man , who by his private judgment interprets it , such assurance of its sense as is competent to ground his faith on , we cannot grant ; this being no less contrary to common reason , than 't is even to experience also . to return then to your objection . you see sect. . that the antient fathers were not such strangers to this method of tradition we follow and explicate . and , you might have observ'd many others both nam'd and cited , surefooting p. . to . what matters it that they did not express that our tenet , or dilate upon it in such terms as we do now ; so they taught others to hold to what was deliver'd , and not to rely on their own private interpretations of scripture against the present churches doctrin ? since in doing this , they held the substance of that which we have since more diffusely explain'd , and reduc't our discourses to more methodical and formal resolutions of faith , which were not so much in fashion in former ages . besides , you are not to be told we both have & could alledge fathers enow for our tenet , and the obligation to hold to the doctrin deliver'd from fathers , that is to tradition ; and how smartly and unanswerably they prest it against hereticks , as a certain determiner of the controversies between the catholicks and them. on the other side , how often they complain'd of the vncertainty of the scripture interpreted by private men , as grounding all heresies ; by reason of the mysterious obscurity of the letter , and its liableness to be misinterpreted and misunderstood ? whereas , it was never heard that the rule of tradition taken in the sense , in which we hold it ( viz. for a delivery of a practical doctrin , publickly preach't to great multitudes at first , practised by them , and held , and recommended as divine , and the way to salvation ) did ever give rise to any heresy , and impossible it should . which one reflexion to a considerate man , is sufficient to conclude the whole present controversy about the rule of faith. . from the qualities requisit to make scripture's letter a rule of your faith , we come to consider the quantity it ought to have , or the number of books ; which you tell us p. . mr. m. suggested . in order to which , i have onely two things to ask you . . whether , as i said formerly , you have any unanimous consent of the christian church , that there was never a book lost that was writ by some who were divinely inspir'd ; and , consequently , did contain some divine revelations ? or , if you cannot prove but there was , how do you know but those divine revelations , which that book or books contain'd , were not different from , or to be superadded to those , contain'd in the canon we have now ? if you cannot prove these two points , then 't is manifest you cannot prove with absolute certainty , that the books wee have now , contain'd all the divine revelations . . you insist onely on this universal testimony for the canonical books of the new testament ; but , i would know whether this testimony reaches to each chapter and every verse of those chapters , nay , each material word in those verses ? if it does not , as you neither say , nor with any reason can say ( for 't is hard to prove the former , & impossible to prove the later but by our rule ) then you are as far from your faith as ever ; unless you bring some other testimony that is absolutely certain , to assure you that such and such a verse , which you would quote and rely on for such and such a point of faith , nay , the main and most significant word in that verse is true scripture : which , i am sure you cannot : for , what testimony else can be invented to do this , if the other , which was of the whole christian church , cannot reach it ? is there any possible way to ascertain this , but by our doctrin-rule ? upon this occasion , pray inform me with what reason you could reflect so severely pag. . on the church of rome ; for not receiving the epistle to the hebrews in st. hierom's time , assoon as other churches ; and , not on the greek churches , ( which you use to prefer before the latin ) who , in the same father's time , refus'd to admit the apocalypse ? the accepting or not accepting such books , even according to your own doctrin , depended on their being satisfied of the evidence produced for their apostolical authority ; and so was an act of prudence , antecedent to the judgment or determination of any church , whether greek or latin. but , so unreasonable is your pique against the church of rome , that she cannot act prudently without forfeiting her infallibility . tho' , another man would have acknowledg'd , it was rather a very commendable cautiousness in the latin & greek church too , not to admit into such a sacred roll , books that were not yet clearly prov'd to be authentickly such ; than a blameable lapse , or so hainous a crime , that for committing it , she must needs lose all her title to christ's promis'd assistance . . this gives me occasion to ask you what becomes of your rule , and , consequently , of your faith all that while ? if the letter of the canonical books , that is , of the whole canon of the new testament be your rule , and those books were part of this canon , they must necessarily be part of your rule too ; whence it follows that your rule was not intire , but deficient for some hundreds of years , till the whole canon was collected and acknowledg'd . i see you do but complement with the primitive church of the first years ; and , that you onely cry it up to avoid the unkindness , which the succeeding ages shew to your cause ; for , by your doctrine , you cannot but hold that the ages which follow'd it , are to be prefer'd : since these had your intire rule , the others wanted some parts of it ; and sometimes held but three parts of it , half of it , or less , ( and so , by your principles , were but three quarters or half christians ) according as the several pieces came by degrees to be acknowledg'd , and universally accepted . i doubt mr. m's discourse about the number of books , more perplexes you , than your are willing to make shew of . for , pray , how many of these books go to make up your rule of faith ? if any one , or some few , then you should not have stood upon the canon we have now ; that is , all the apostolical books , or scripture in general . if all the canonical writings be your rule , then perhaps the primitive christians had but half their faith , or less ; it may be none at all , because , wanting yet those other books , they wanted necessary places to compare those texts with they already had ; which is a great part of your method to find out your faith in scripture . pray , satisfy us about this exact number of books , and how many will just serve the turn ; and , make something cohere ; for , i cannot for my heart as yet find any thing that does . you talk to us of a purse , and say it must be full ; but , when we come to look at it more narrowly , it appears to have been for some time but half a purse , and wanted one side of it , at least had a great hole in it : so that you put us into an apprehension , that many of the gold and silver points might have dropt out of it in the time of the primitive church ; by which church notwithstanding , and no other , in our disputes about faith , you seem heartily willing to be judg'd . but , let us examin a little the consent of all ( your ) christian churches for scripture , you make such brags of . in the first place marches and leads the van , your christian church of the noble arch-heretick marciou ; who blotted out of the canon the epistle to the (a) hebrews , that to titus , and both those to timothy ; who admitted onely st. luke's gospel to be divine , and (b) rejected all the epistles of st. paul , as an apostate from the law. in the next rank , go abreast those three famous christian churches of ebion , valentinus , and cerinthus : of which (c) the first admitted onely st. matthews gospel ; the (d) second , onely st. iohn's ; and the third , onely st. mark 's . after them , come others , mentioned by st. hierom and epiphanius , who in a manner brought all into doubt ; especially if faith depended in those days on the comparing of places ; for , they held that diverse things both in the old testament and the new , were not inspir'd by god , but writ by a human spirit . i need not acquaint you , that luther , brentius & chemnitius , did revive the old doubts about the epistle to the hebrews and the apocalypse , of later dayes . nor need it be recounted how many orthodox christian churches did not accept diverse books formerly . and , tho' afterwards , as you say well , they came by degrees to fix on the certain canon of the new testament , yet i am apt to judge that this was not perform'd by immediate testimony : for , the witnesses were long ago dead , and their grand-fathers too , who could attest that such a book was indeed , to their knowledge , written by such an apostle or evangelist . it descended then by oral tradition in those respective churches . whence , as that tradition was not so practical , so it was restrain'd to some few in each church , and was withal , very narrow at first in comparison of our tradition for christ's doctrin ; which was , in a manner , universally and publickly preach't and practis'd . now the strength of a tradition , and the largeness of it are to be taken from the largeness of the first attestation ; and all that after-ages can do , when they attest such things , is to witness that they received it from some others ; but so , that the tradition was still narrower as it came nearer the fountain ; which very much weakens it . by what other lights the church guided her self in her accepting such and such books for canonical scripture , belongs to another place . your tradition then was not universal for scripture in the first years , and its original attestation was weak in comparison of that which was for doctrin . . i have little to say to your explicit or implicit points contain'd in scripture : for , i see they are both equally to no purpose , while but contain'd there , till you bring us a rule to interpret the letter with absolute certainty . if any ought to be explicitely there , none can have so good a title to it as those high and most fundamental articles spoken of so often ; yet we see there are no places producible for them , but may have other senses given them ; and bear ( as experience shews us ) not yet ended , and , for ought we know , endless disputes among your sober enquirers attending to your rule . onely i a little wonder you should say 't is sufficient for your purpose , that all doctrin of faith necessary to salvation are contain'd in ( the letter of ) scripture , either explicitly or implicitly . if they be necessary to salvation , they must be necessary to be believ'd or known to be there ; for they must save men by believing them , and acting according to that belief , or no way ; and , if they be onely implicitly there , they are as yet unknown , or not believ'd : so that , according to you , that is a point necessary to salvation , which does not at all conduce to it . but , i wonder more at the happiness of your sober enquirer to whom , you affirm and stand to it stoutly , those implicit points will become explicit without the help of the church ; and yet you call it assuming , in the church of rome , to do the same , or declare the sense of such articles . certainly , this sober enquirer is your special darling , and favourit . he , tho' a private person , can discover those explicit points ; and i suppose may declare them too , to as many as he pleases ; for how can he in charity do less ? but alas ! the silly insignificant church , can do nothing at all ; she must submit to the wondrous gifts , you have bestow'd upon the rabble , and her governors and pastors be accounted tyrants if they shall dare to encroach upon their high prerogatives , or presume to share in their priviledges of being able to unfold or know the explicit meaning of scripture-texts : for , in case they can know this , and this knowledge be good for the faithful ( as it is , being as you say necessary to salvation ) 't is without question they may declare them , or make them known to others : nay , and use their authority too ( if you will vouchsafe to allow them any ) to edify the faithful by making this knowledge sink into them . nor can it prejudice their reason , that the church obliges them to believe them ; for this is no more than obliging them to act according to reason ; which tells them that , since they must either trust themselves or their pastours in such things , and the pastours must be incomparably better qualify'd than themselves are , for the discovering of such mysterious truths , and withall appointed by god to teach them ; 't is far more rational to submit to their judgments in such things , than to use their own . but , indeed , you have reason to stand up for your sober enquirer ; for all ring-leaders of any heresy , or faction against the church , took this very method in their proceedings . the spirit of pride , which possest them , principled them with these rational and peaceable maxims , that they had authority to judge their judges , teach their teachers , direct their guides , and that their own wit excell'd that of all the world before them . but , when a faction was form'd into a good lusty body , the scripture-rule was laid aside again ; so that 't is doubtful whether we have had ever a sober enquirer since , as was shewn in my first letter sect. . . you desire to see this power of the church in scripture in express terms ; and we tell you we need not let you see it in scripture at all : for tradition , & even common sense , tells us , that the church has power to feed , and instruct her flock ; and enlighten them in what she knows , and they are ignorant of . if you demand how the roman church came by this knowledge of making implicit points explicit ? i answer , by tradition , giving her the sense of christ's whole law , and each intire point of it ; and by the light of nature purify'd by supernatural knowledges antecedently ; as also by her application , when occasion required , to reflect upon , and penetrate deeply into that sense ; which enables her to explicate her own thoughts ( or the points of faith ) more clearly now ; which she had indeed before , but did not so distinctly look into them , or set her self to explain them . but pray , what express scripture has your sober enquirer for his power to make the implicit points explicit ? you reckon up diverse agreeablenesses p. . why this should be ; but not one word of express scripture do you pretend to for it . and if himself pretend to any such power , besides that it will look a little odd that god should take more care of private men than of his church , let him either shew us he has better means natural or supernatural to do this , than the church has , or he discovers his pride and folly both to pretend to it . you say p. . that the church of rome has no where declar'd in council it has any such power ; viz. to declare explicitly points imply'd in scripture . but , first , you may please to know it has made such a declaration sect. . where it defines that it belongs to the church , judicare de vero sensu et interpretatione scripturarum , to judge of the true sense , and interpretation of scripture ; next , it , accordingly , proceeds upon this power , as i shall manifest by three several instances . one sess. . cap. . where it explains those texts , luc. . io. . and cor. . to be meant of being truly christ's body ; and declares thence that the church was ever perswaded of the doctrin of transubstantiation . another , sess. . cap. . where it declares the text , cor. . let a man examin himself , &c. to be understood by the custome ( or practice ) of the church , of , sacramental confession , necessary to be us'd before receiving the sacrament by all those who are conscious to themselves of mortal sin . the third , sess. . cap. . where it interprets that text of s. iames cap. . to be by apostolical tradition understood of the sacrament of extreme vnction . which places you do not judge so much as implicitly to contain that sense , but hold that they contain another thing . how the churches declaring explicitly points descending by tradition , makes no new articles of faith , is discours't above , sect. , , , . by which , you may see that mr. g. and mr. m. whom ( pag. . ) you will needs set at variance , are , notwithstanding , very good friends . for , if the church knew the the sense which is contain'd in that place , before ; the doctrin is old , tho' the declaring it to be signifi'd by that particular text , be perhaps new. i say perhaps ; for , in some signal passages , much in use in the churches preaching , catechisms and practise ; i doubt not but that , not only the particular doctrin , but also that 't is signifi'd by such a text , comes down by tradition in the ecclesia docens . notwithstanding the agreeableness of these two positions , you triumph mightily here p. . that , thus mr. m. has answer'd mr. g 's demonstration . as much as to say , i know not for my life what to say to it my self , and therefore , would gladly shift it off upon any body , so i could handsomely rid my hands of it . thus , you make ( for you can make any thing by your method of mistaking every thing ) the council of trent clash with the church of rome ( a hard task one would think ! ) by pretending to interpret scripture according to the unanimous sense of the fathers ; which you judge contradicts the making known , and obliging men to believe that explicitly now , which they were not oblig'd to by any precedent sense or explication . what mean the words [ men ] and [ they ] if they signify all men , and intend to signify that no man knew those imply'd points before , but all might hap to contradict them , you mistake our tenet : for , we judge it absolutely impossible that none of the fathers should reflect more attentively on the full sense of the points deliver'd , or look into their own thoughts as faithful ; and , therefore , it was much more impossible they should unanimously contradict those points . and , unless they did so , the council of trent , and the church of rome may , by the grace of god , very well correspond in their doctrin for all your mistake . for the intention of the fathers in that decree ( sess. . ) was to repress the insolency of hereticks wresting the scripture to their own private sentiments [ contrary to the sense of the church , or the unanimous consent of the fathers . ] and how this is directly contrary to this power of obliging to believe somthing , as in scripture , explicitly now , which was not so known before , is unconceivable ; unless you will prove that that explicit sense is directly contrary to the unanimous consent of the fathers or the church , which you will never do . but , t is a trivial exploit to make mr. m. clash with mr. g. or the church of rome with the council of trent ; you can make that very church clash with her self — suis et ipsa roma — and that openly and professedly too : nay , which is most wonderful , fall out with her self about her own prerogatives . for , you tell us p. . that tho' it has assum'd this power now spoken of , yet it still disown'd it . now to assume a power , is to challenge it ; and to disown it , is to renounce it ; which hang together much alter the rate of all your discourse hitherto . this church of rome is a most monstrous kind of creature : it goes backwards , and forwards , blows and sups , declares for and against , and all at once : but we must imagin her to be such onely as she stands pourtray'd in dr. st's fancy . . your main stratagem to elude all this discourse , remains yet to be more fully detected , tho' it has been occasionally toucht at diverse times formerly . t is this , that you are now upon the general ground of faith , and not the particular acts of it , or the particular certainty as to this or that doctrine . and you seem to have reason for it too , because the main point in dispute was , whether protestants could shew any ground of absolute certainty for their faith. and this you think justifies you for hovering in the ayr , and onely talking of your scripture-rule in common , without lighting on or applying it to any one particular point contain'd in that rule . but this will avail you nothing . for , first ; neither does our discourse pinch upon any one particular point , but upon the uncertainty of your faith in general , or on all your points of faith at once as built on your ground . so that , 't is the pretended ground of your faith we are disputing against all the while , and not any one particular tenet . we bring , indeed , instances now and then of some particular articles ; but , 't is to shew that , if your ground has not power to ascertain absolutely those most fundamental points , it has power to ascertain none ; and , so , is no ground of faith at all . secondly , a pretended ground cannot be known or acknowledg'd to be a real and firm ground , till we see it grounds somthing , it 's notion plainly imports a relation to the superstructure ; and you may as well prove a man a father without proving he has a child , as prove any thing to be a ground without proving such and such points to be grounded on it ; and this ( in our case ) with absolute certainty . pray , take that along with you still , otherwise you turn your back to the question , and run away from it in the open field . t is tedious and mortifying beyond measure to hear you still talking , and pretending you have an absolutely certain ground for faith , and yet never see you , so much as once , endeavouring to shew how it 's ascertaining virtue affects the articles you build upon it ; and that this particular sense of scripture in each respective point has such a close , and necessary connexion with the letter on which 't is built , as to give absolute certainty of it to all that are competent judges of the sense of words . which the experience of all ages since christ confutes , and our own eyes witness to be false in the socinians and others . thirdly , your self confest once upon a time that you are absolutely certain you now hold all the same doctrin that was taught by christ and his apostles . now , this candid expression would make any honest well-meaning man verily believe that you meant you had been absolutely certain of every particular christian doctrin , by vertue of your ground or rule . but your incomparable dexterity quite and clean over-reach't us . for , when you came to explain your self there , it amounted to no more but that your faith was resolv'd into scripture ( that is , that you pretended to scripture ) which contains all , or as you told us p. . that you were absolutely certain you hold all , because you hold all , not in your soul or mind ( where points of faith are to be held ) but in a kind of purse as it were ; as one is said , when he holds a book in his hand , to hold all that is in it : being possest of which , tho' you cannot come at it's sense ( which is little better than if it were lock't up in a trunk ) you are in possession of all christian faith notwithstanding , and hold very firmly ( in that sense ) all that was taught by christ and his apostles . fourthly , hence you have not perform'd what you undertook , viz. to shew that protestants had any absolutely certain ground of their faith. for , 't is not enough to point out a book , and cry out aloud t is your ground , but you must shew , that 't is indeed such a ground . now a ground or rule bears in it's notion evidence to those who are to use it , and to know other things by it's direction ; nay more , clear evidence : for , as all certainty must have some kind of evidence to create it in us , so this effect of absolute certainty can have no less than clear evidence for it's cause . but , you may as easily prove mankind has no eyes to see with , as go about to shew that the letter of scripture is thus clear in order to the discovery of right faith , even in the highest and most concerning points of our christian belief . fifthly , t is pleasant to observe what a rare resolution of your faith you give us p. . our faith ( say you ) is resolv'd into the scripture as the word of god , and whatever is built on the word of god , is absolutely certain . you must , indeed , having deserted the tradition of the church , either pretend to scripture , or nothing ; unless you will confess your selves to be pure phanaticks or pagans : and it looks mighty plausibly to say , that whatever is built on the word of god is absolutely certain ; for 't is a great truth . but the only point is still , are you absolutely-certain by your grounds , that your faith is indeed built on the word of god ? you say , indeed , scripture is your ground , you pretend to it as your ground , perhaps you think it so too ; and , 't is not about your saying , pretending or thinking it to be such , that we dispute with you ; for we should not scruple to grant you all this without any dispute at all : but does your saying , pretending or thinking prove it to be so really , and indeed ? all heresies in the world do as much as this comes to , and yet are no less heresies than if they did none of this . t is your proving it to be your ground ( and that an absolutely certain one too ) which we would be at ; but , we justly complain you flinch from the onely thing in dispute and perpetually balk us . we tell you once more , ( and we cannot repeat it too often ) there is a necessary connexion between the ground and the building ; for , 't is not a building if it have no ground , nor the ground of a building if nothing be built on it . you are then to shew us absolute certainty of this necessary connexion between the scripture and your faith , or you do nothing but talk at random . but , alas ! you have not the confidence to make out this , or produce your reasons to conelude this ground and this building have such a necessary relation ; and i must tell you plainly , you can never do it . for , pray , tell me , may not the socinians , and indeed all hereticks that ever arose in the church , say , pretend , and ( perhaps ) think the same that you do ? nay , do not they all alledge the same ? do not they all profess to resolve theit faith ( i mean their abominable errours ) into the written word ? do not they pretend it for their ground , and , that they build their prophane tenets on it ; & lastly , avow as stoutly as you do for your heart , that whatever is built on gods word , is absolutely certain ? will you allow these pleas argumentative for them , or , that their wicked errours are therefore true faith and absolutely certain , because they alledge all this ! and can you be so unreasonable as to expect we should pass that for a good argument , or a conclusive reason to prove you have absolute certainty for your faith , which your self disallows , when 't is alledg'd for them ; nay , which you must disallow and declare against , unless you will patronize all their heresies ? pray , lay your hand on your heart , and consider ( i am sure , 't is more your own good , than mine , you should ) into what a lamentable , or rather chimerical condition god's church is reduc't by your resolution of your faith here , and the account you give of it . the pillar and ground of truth , is reduc't by you into a confused chaos of incoherent errours ; christ's immaculate spouse is associated with all the adulterate synagogues of sathan ; lastly , faith as to it's certainty is in no better a condition than heresy , and heresy is upon even ground with faith. i have a better opinion of the church of england , than to believe her most learned and genuin members , will own such a resolution of her faith , as will make the socinians , and all other hereticks in the world their fellow-christians and brothers ; as they must be forced to do , if they own no other resolution of it than all those pestilent sects unanimously profess . i see mr. g had good reason to ask you in his th . question , what churches you accounted christian churches ? for , i much fear , by your discourse and principles , you exclude none : nor ought you , so they heartily hold the same gound of faith with you ; for then all their vnchristian tenets are to pass for material errours , not formal heresies : they hold all true faith in the purse still , tho' they mistake the coyn and mettal ; and that 's enough , in all conscience , for such a church as that you are about rearing or dawbing up . you pass a complement indeed upon the four first general councils , and that you reject all such doctrins as were condemn'd by them ; which use to be words of course in your controversies ; as [ your humble servant ] and such like , are in our common conversation : but , when you are once got out of the circumstance of pretending to hold to some antiquity , that so you may set a better face on it , when you oppose the papists ; when that job is over , they are but fallible congregations , and so perhaps were deceiv'd in all they defin'd against the arians , eutychians , &c. especially , if one of your sober enquirers comes to fancy otherwise ; and , no doubt , there were many such even in those dayes . and , then comes the st . article of q. elizabeth's symbol , and knocks them down all at once with a declaration that their decrees have neither strength nor authority , unless it may be declar'd , that they be taken out of holy scripture ; and so all is with a turn of ones hand brought back to the same point again , and , farewell councils : your self , and any one of your sober enquirers , are at full liberty still to judge of them by your scripture-rule ; and the resolution of your faith is establish't by that article ( at least as you make use of it ) to be the same with that which is made , and profest by all the vile hereticks in the world . for , as dr. burnet sayes very candidly in his answer to the method of oonverting protestants , p. . and , no doubt upon your principles , if any man , after his strictest enquiries , is still perswaded that a council , has decreed against the true meaning of the scriptures , in a point necessary to salvation , then he must prefer god to man , and follow the sounder tho' it should prove to be the lesser party : and , if any company or synod of protestants have decree'd any thing contrary to this , in so far they have departed from the protestant principles . ] where we see he gives every sober enquirer leave to judge of councils , even tho' general ones , for he excepts none ; and himself shews them the way , by judging & censuring the councils of his own church . . another scruple yet remains incumbent on you to clear ; which is , that , by your putting it upon mr. g. to prove you have not absolute certainty as to the rule of your faith , and by your innate antipathy against infallibility , 't is very dubious whether your self do indeed hold the tradition of all christian churches absolutely certain , even for the scripture ; however to save your credit , you then pretended it , fearing your denying it might disedify mr. t. since then you ly under a shrewd suspicion , that you do not deal really with him , and the rest of your readers , in this forc't profession ; it would become you , in your reply , both to shew why you allow that testimony to be absolutely certain , and yet are such an enemy to infallibility ; since common sense tells us , no man can judge himself absolutely certain of a thing , if he judges he may at the same time be deceiv'd in it ; and , withal , that you may give more satisfaction to your readers herein , than an empty and scarce credible acknowledgment of it , when you were in untoward circumstances ; pray , go to work like a schollar , and demonstrate to us by way of solid reason , working upon the nature of the thing ( for no argument meerly probable will suffice to prove a testimony absolutely certain ) how , and by what vertue this tradition of all christian churches comes to be thus absolutely certain for the letter of the scripture ; as you see we endeavour to demonstrate the absolute cettainty of our tradition for doctrin , there cannot be a worthier point to exert your self in , nor a greater service done to your rule ; nor a better way to clear your self to the incredulous part of the world , than to perform this : for one knows not whence meer words , and outward professions may proceed ; but , solid and convincing reasons can come onely from a heart possest wiih the truth of what is profest . go to work then , and bless us with the sight of this truly learned and iudicious performance , and , while your hand is in , please to shew us too , that , the absolute certainty of this universal testimony reaches to prove your rule intire ; that is , reaches to prove no part of the written word was lost : nay , that it reaches to the particular verses , and the most substantial words in those verses , as well as to the main books ; and lastly , to translations also and transcriptions ; as you ought to do in case they be ( as indeed they are ) of equal concern , in our circumstances , as the books themselves . or , if you deny they are equally important ; and , maintain that this absolute certainty may be had of your rule , without the same certainty for these ; then please to give us your reasons for it , and shew how faith can be absolutely certain , tho' the letter on which it depends , may perhaps have been maim'd or corrupted by any of these miscarriages . or , if you think fit to say you have absolute certainty of your faith , tho' you have not absolute certainty for it's rule ; then , confess candidly and ingenuously your faith is absolutely-speaking vncertain ; and , to make good that rare christian tenet , fall to work and confute utterly that positive book [ faith vindicated ] which undertakes to produce a multitude of demonstrations to prove that faith cannot possibly be false ; and , withal , please to inform us to what end you maintain your rule of faith to be absolutely certain , if it do not make your faith thus certain too , or what that certainty serves for . any thing would content us , so you would once leave fluttering , and hovering in common words : either tell us plainly all faith is uncertain , or come at length to some firm bottom , on which we may with absolute certainty ground the truth of it , and raise it above some plausible likelihood . but , we remonstrate against your putting us off with the old sham [ sufficient certainty ] unless you particularize to us what kind of certainty you hold , and make out 't is sufficient for the nature , the ends and vses of faith , and the obligations issuing from it , and incumbent on the prosessours of it . if you refuse to condescend to these fair proposals , all the world must think you onely temporiz'd with mr. t. and the occasion ; and that you have not that zeal for your rule of faith ( whose grand interest 't is these things should be made out ) as you pretend . once more i tell you , that , if all this will not move you to this every way necessary undertaking , i must then plainly challenge you , that it is your necessary and precise duty , in this very circumstance , as you are a controvertist ; and , as i am concern'd with you under that notion , i must demand it of you . . i know not well whether it be worth the while to justify mr. m. for calling your answer to mr. g's th . question trifling ; or whether it be necessary , after so ample a discovery , that all the rest of them , taking them in the sense you explicated them , deserv'd no better character . you were ask't onely the meaning of your words , [ christian church ] but you had a mind to be liberal , and give more than was ask't , the meaning of [ vniversal testimony ] too : and to tell us , that , by vniversal testimony , you mean vniversal consent . that is to say , by vniversal testimony , you mean vniversal testimony : for , all agree or consent in the testimony , if it be vniversal . then , to the precise question , you answer , that , by the christian church , you mean all christian churches ; which is to say , that , by the christian church , you mean the christian church ; for all the parts make the whole ; so that , instead of an explication , you give us the same thing over again , and almost in the same words . and , pray , who 's the wiser for such an answer ? yet , tho' it be impertinent , and nothing to the purpose , 't is at least true , and evident by its self , without needing to make it a question : if you would please to afford us such evidences , when 't is to purpose , you would highly oblige us . certainly , a considering reader cannot but think you are very unhappy in explicating your self ; for , either your explications run quite away from your answer , which you are to explicate , and are a mile wide of them ; or they come too close to them , and are the self-same said over again , and almost in the same words . but , can any one think so excellent a wit , as yours , is justly reputed , should expose himself so manifestly , without some latent design ? t is incredible : let us take a view then of mr. g's th . question ; being the words christian church may be taken in several latitudes by persons of different religions , i desire to know what that christian church is , &c. here we see plainly , that the main of the question was , what churches were accounted by you christian , or how that word [ christian ] was to be explicated ; and , you give him for explication the self-same word again , and in effect tell him , that by christian is meant christian ; and that 's all he can get from you. and , you did prudently ; for , had you come to distinguish which congregation was christian , which not , you must have secluded all hereticks , which your principles could not do ; for your ground of faith here is most manifestly common to all of them ; and so you would have lain open to the disrepute of having and professing a brotherhead with all those excrementitious out-casts ; and your pretended rule ( notwithstanding it s other many divine excellencies ) had appear'd to be utterly unqualifi'd with clearness and firmness enough to be call'd a rule or ground . to avoid this , and in consonancy to your principles , you take all their testimonies in for scripture , and pretend it strengthens it . so it may perhaps as to the books : but , you know how the church complain'd of the hereticks for corrupting the letter of scripture , to make it favourable for them ; and , therefore , for any thing you know , they cry'd up the books , because they had fitted them for their own purpose . whence , tho' the testimony for the books should be stronger by their concurrence , yet the credit of the letter , in the respective places that oppose those hereticks , is weaker for their allowing them , because they admitted them as consistent with their tenets ; otherwise , they would have rejected them , as they did others upon that score . and , what advantage can you gain by the former towards the proving your ground of faith absolutely certain , if you be not equally certain of the later ? surely none at all : for , 't is not the whole book in the lump that can be produc't to prove faith , or confute heresy , but particular texts ; and , if these and the mainly significant words in them , be not absolutely certain , what becomes of the absolute certainty of your rule , or your faith ? nay , i am not fully satisfied that their concurrent testimony does strengthen the certainty of even so much as the books . for , i observe that our judges suspect the testimony of honest men , and misdoubt the justness of the cause , if known knights of the post are call'd in to corroborate their evidence . but , you have prudent maxims of your own which are beyond the reach of lawyers . . you endeavour to come a little closer to the point p. . and set your self to prove that scripture is your rule of faith ; ay , that it is : in order to which , you advance this proposition , that certainly all that believe it to be the word of god , must take it for a rule of faith. these two confident words , [ certainly ] and [ must ] are very efficacious to perswade those who will take it upon your word ; nay they are so magisterial , that they impose a kind of necessity upon them of believing all is as you say , or else of denying your authority , which would break friendship . but , if they will not , but happen to be so uncivil as to require proofs for it , they quite lose their force ; and , which is worse , such positive assertions make people expect very strong arguments to answer and make good such confident affirmations ; else it hazards credit , to pretend great things and bring little or no proof . how you will justify those big words , we shall see shortly . in the mean time let us ask you , how you come to be thus certain of it ? is there no more requisit to a rule , but to be the word of god ? or , did you never read in errour non-plust , long ago , p. , , . the answer now given you to this pretence , in the confutation of your th . principle ; in which you endeavour to establish scripture to be a rule ? or , can you so much forget your self , and your duty to reply to it , as to discourse still thus crudely , with the same confidence as if you had never read or heard of such a book , or any thing alledg'd there to the contrary ? if we must needs mind you of it so often , take these few words along with you now at least ; and till you have reply'd to them , and others such which are there alledg'd , i beseech you let us be tir'd no more with such talk , as serves onely to amuse , but can never edify or convince . [ to be writ by men divinely inspir'd , to be divine , infallible , and the word of god , signifies no more but that they ( the scriptures ) are perfectly holy and true in themselves , and beneficial to mankind in some way or other ; and , this is the farthest these words will carry : but , that they are of themselves of sufficient clearness to give sincerely endeavouring persons such security of their faith while they rely on them as cannot consist with errour ( which is requisit to the rule of faith ) these words signif●y not . they may be most holy , they may be most true in themselves , they may be exceedingly useful , or beneficial to mankind , and yet not endow'd with this property ; which yet the rule of faith must have . ] and , pag. . [ what then dr. st. is to do , is to produce conclusive reasons to evince that the letter of scripture has such a perspicuity , and other perfections belonging to such a rule , as must ground that most firm , and unalterable , and ( if rightly grounded ) inerrable assent call'd christian faith. ] we see here the question rightly stated , and the point that sticks ; now let 's see whether your proof does so much as touch it , or in the least mention it . . the argument you make choice of , ( i suppose it is your best , the matter in hand being of highest consequence ) to prove that all who believe scripture to be the word of god must take it for a rule of faith , is this . [ for , since the reason of our believing is because god has reveal'd , whatever god has reveal'd must be believ'd , and a book containing in it such divine revelations must be the rule of our faith. i. e. by it we are to judge what we are bound to believe as divine revelations . ] what a wild medly is here , instead of a reason ! here are four propositions involv'd . the first , is this ; the reason of our believing is because god has reveal'd ; and this is granted : onely you may note that we are equally bound to believe what god has reveal'd by the church's testimony as by writing , if it be equally clear it was thus reveal'd ; nay , more by the former than by the later , in case that way of ascertaining the divine revelation be more clear than this : nor does your first proposition deny this , but rather asserts it . the second , this , [ whatever god has reveal'd must be believ'd . ] and this is pretended for an inference , but alas , 't is nothing less . for , how does it follow that because the reason of our believing is god's revealing , therefore we are bound to believe what god has reveal'd , whether we know it or no ? all then that can be said of it is , that 't is pious non-sense , unless you add to it that we have also certain grounds god has indeed reveal'd it : for , otherwise , besides the danger of erring our selves in matters of the highest moment ( and this unalterably too , in regard we entertain that errour as recommended by the divine revelation ) we shall moreover hazard to entitle god's infinit veracity to a falsehood , and make truth it self the authour of lies . the third , that [ a book , containing in it such revelations must be the rule of our faith ] is absolutely deny'd . for a book may contain in it divine revelations , and i may not know certainly it does contain them : or , i may know certainly by very good testimony it does contain them , yet not know certainly it does contain them all : or , i may know it does contain them all , yet perhaps not be able to know any one of those divine revelations in particular , which are contain'd there ; for example , if it be in a language i understand not : or , tho' i do understand the language , yet by reason of it's mysterious sublimity , and deep sense , and thence obscurity and ambiguity in many passages relating to spiritual matters , and the chief articles of our christian profession , i cannot be assur'd with absolute certainty which is the right sense of it ; and therefore ( considering me as in the way to faith , & that my assent depends necessarily on the truth of some preliminary which is the object of pure reason ) i might not , nay cannot , with any true reason , firmly assent to what i see may be an errour ; nor hazard my salvation upon an vncertain ground , and on which i know great multitudes have already ship-wrackt . the fourth [ by it we are to judge what we are bound to believe as divine revelations ) runs upon the same strain ; for you are to shew us how by it i am to judge my self bound to believe any thing at all as a divine revelation , that is , as taught by christ , with a firm and vnalterable assent , ( such as faith is ) till i am certain it is so , by being ascertain'd he taught it . this is the true , this is the main point ; which you slide over still as smoothly as a non-plust commentator does over hard texts , that puzzle him to explicate . i say once more , 't is the main if not onely point : for , till you have made out this , you can never prove that scripture ( taken alone ) is a ground of faith at all , much less an absolutely certain ground ; and , least of all , your ground in particular . and therefore you said very true when you lamented p. . you were in a hard case : for tho' ( say you ) there is an absolute certainty , and this certainty lies in vniversal tradition , and we can shew this vniversal tradition , yet we cannot shew the ground of our certainty . for , you cannot shew universal tradition for every particular text that concerns faith without our tradition - rule for doctrin ; nor absolute certainty you have the true sense , tho' you had that certainty for the letter , without which 't is not your ground at all . a certainty there is , but not by vertue of your grounds , and so 't is none of your certainty , nor your ground neither . whereas then you confess here that , if you cannot shew the true ground of your certainty you deserve to be either pity'd or begg'd , you say very true : for we do from our hearts pity you , let who will take the tother part . we pity you to see such excellent wits , who , had they a good cause , would be honourably victorious , forc't by the patronage of a bad one to employ their talents in shifting about for by-paths to avoid meeting the question in the face . we pity you for your being necessitated to impose upon your well-meaning readers with your specious pretences of gods word , instead of shewing them with absolute certainty ( on your grounds ) that you have the true sense of it in any one passage relating to the controverted points ; without which you cannot with honesty pretend it gods word as to those points . and , if that kind of begging may do you any good , we shall earnestly and heartily beg of god's infinite mercy to give you hearts to seek truth , and candidly acknowledge it when found . . i had almost forgot your id est , which connects your third and last proposition together [ — must be the rule of our faith , id est ( say you ) by it we are to judge what we are bound to believe as divine revelations . these id est's , which should be us'd to clear things , are still so made use of that they are the main engines to confound them . let your id est then say what it please , i must tell you plainly , you quite mistake the meaning of the word rule ; it speaks rectitude , and that such an evident one as preserves those who regulate themselves by it from obliquity or deviation , that is , in our case , from errour . you ought then to have said — the rule of our faith , id est , by which , while we follow it , we shall be absolutely secur'd from erring in faith , for the primary effect of a rule is to give faith that prerequisit ▪ quality as elevates it to the dignity of such a kind of assent , and raises it above that dwindling , feeble , alterable assent call'd opinion . but you will needs , ( to avoid coming neer so dangerous a rock ) take it for a kind of quantitative measure , nor for a qualifying principle : whereas , indeed , 't is not the what or how much we are to believe , which is now our question ; but , the that we ought to believe any thing at all ; or that you can by your grounds have any faith at all for want of this absolute certainty , which you pretend to ; 't is this i say , which is the true subject of our present debate . for tho' we both held the same quantity or number of points to a tittle , yet it might be faith in one of us , and but opinion in the other ; nay perhaps opinion in both , if both of us wanted certain grounds to evince they were christs doctrin , which is the formal motive of our faith. it belongs then to a rule to ascertain both the that we are to believe , and the what ; but the former office of it is antecedent and principal , the later collateral , and secondary : common sense telling us that we ought first to determin whether there is any faith at all , e're we come to debate what points are of faith , what not . these fast-and-loose doings make me , when ever i meet with an id est , still expect it means [ aliud est ] and that , like your other explications of your self , it is brought in to divert our eyes to another object instead of keeping them still fixt upon the same . . enough has been said , i am sure too much ever to be answer'd , to prove that scripture alone as interterpreted by any private mans judgment , wants the chief property of a rule of faith , viz. such a clearness as is able to give all sorts of people , or the generality of christians ( be they never so sober enquirers ) absolute assurance of it's sense , even in the highest mysteries of our faith , without needing the church's help . nor , will you ever be able to produce the consent of all christian churches affirming that it has this property . wherefore , when it is call'd a rule by some of the antients , it must be taken ( as mr. m. * sayes ) with the interpretation of the church adjoyn'd ; which , having the living sense of christ's law in her heart , can animate the dead letter , and preserve it from explications any way prejudicial to the faith received . and , thus indeed , it may be call'd a rule of faith ; because , as 't is thus understood , it cannot lead any into errour , but , * is of good use to abett truth by it's divine authority . in which sense councils proceed upon it often , and sometimes call it a rule . and , i remember the famous launoy , when we were discoursing once about tradition shew'd me a little book of his , in which , he goes about to prove , that councils had frequently defin'd against hereticks out of scripture . on which occasion i ask't him , if he judg'd those councils fram'd their definitions by the sense they had of the letter by their own human skill ; or by the sense of the church , which they had by tradition : he answer'd , undoubtedly by the later ; and that there would be no end of disputing with hereticks , had they taken the former way . by which we may discern that still tradition was in proper speech their rule , even when they alledg'd scripture . other , call scripture sometimes a rule , because it contains faith ; in which sense even some catholicks call it a partial rule because part of christ's doctrin is contain'd in it , the other part descending by tradition : which acceptation of the word [ rule ] is yet less proper ; because ( as has been prov'd ) it may be contain'd there , and yet we be never the neerer knowing our faith meerly by virtue of scripture's containing it . but no catholick ever said that every sober enquirer may find out all necessary points of faith in scripture without the churches help . a doctrin , which you declare p. . you are far from being asham'd of . and yet , let me tell you sir , you will never find this position of yours as it lies [ without the churches help : ] in the universal tradition of all christian churches ; and , unless you find this , you will never prove they held it a rule in the genuin and proper signification in which we take that word ; ( and tho' they shou'd call it a rule , in either of the former senses lately mention'd , they impugn not us at all , who grant the same . . you will needs run out of the way , p. . to talk of a iudge of controversies ; but the best is , you acknowledge you do go thus astray , by acknowledging 't is another distinct controversy ; and yet , tho' you acknowledge this , you still run on with it , that is , you still wander from the point . you triumph mightily p. . that it is impossible for us to bring such an unanimous consent of all christian churches for our infallible iudge — or our infallibility , as protestants bring for their rule . as for the later , where were your thoughts , sir , while you thus bad adieu to the plainest rules of discourse ? cannot we go about to demonstrate the infallibility of a human testimony by natural mediums , but , instead of answering it , you must object against our conclusion , and bid us bring the consent of all churches to abett that , which neither depends , nor is pretended to depend , on authority , but on meer reason ? cannot one say two and three make five , but he must be presently bobb'd in the mouth that he cannot shew the consent of all christian churches for it ; and that , unless he does this , let it be never so evident , 't is not true ? t is very pleasant to reflect how brisk you are still with this consent of all churches ; ( i suppose because 't is a topick very seldom heard of in your controversies ) tho' as has been shewn over and over , 't is not a jot to your purpose , nor avails any thing to the evincing you have an absolutely-certain ground of your faith. and , if we have an infallible rule , or such a rule as permits not those to be deceiv'd that follow it , can there be any thing more rational than to hold by consequence , that there is an infallible iudge , or that our church can judge unerringly in matters belonging to faith ? the word iudge onely signifying that that person or persons , are in authority , or are authoritative deciders , to preserve the integrity of faith , and the peace of the church . so that , supposing church-governours or bishops , and that those sacred concerns are to be provided for , plain reason demonstrates to us this too as well as the other , without needing the consent of all christian churches ; tho' you need not to be told this does not want neither ; unless you think that all the general councils that defin'd against hereticks , imagin'd they might perhaps be in an errour all the while ; and the heretick , whom they condemn'd , in the right . your * appeal to all the churches of the christian world for your rule , has a plausible appearance , but vanishes into air when one comes to grasp it . how often must it be repeated that you have as yet produc't no rule at all for your faith ? for you have neither prov'd that scripture's letter , as to every substantial word that concerns faith , is absolutely-certain ; nor that it has in it the nature of a rule ; nor that , 't is your rule , more than 't is to all the hereticks in the world ; nor that your assent to any point upon that rule , as made use of by you , ( for want of connexion between the points to be believ'd , and the rule on which they are believ'd , ) can have the nature of true faith in it . if talking big would do the deed , you would indeed do wonders ; but let your reasons be proportionable ; otherwise , strong words and faint blows are but very ill-matcht . now , i must declare plainly i cannot see the least semblance of so much as one solid proof in this whole treatise of yours . if there be , confute me by shewing it , and maintaining it to be such . you explain you own tenet over and over till one is weary of readding it , and half asham'd so often to answer it . you talk much of god's word ; that we are bound to believe it , that it contains god's will , and all things necessary to salvation ; and , twenty such fine things ; which bear a godly sound , and would do well in a sermon where all goes down glib , there being none to contradict you ; but , are very dull and flat in controversy . on the contrary , not one argument have you even offer'd at , to prove you have absolute certainty of the rule or ground of your faith , but have faln short in every one of those considerations ; both as to the notions of certainty , ground , rule , faith ; and that 't is your ground , your rule , and your faith. . a rule to any thing , if we take that word in a proper sense as we do in our modern controversies , is the immediate light to direct us in order to our knowing that thing . for , in case it be not immediate , but some other thing intervenes that is needful to direct us , and by whose rectitude we frame our thoughts as to that affair , and that it renders the other capable to direct us ; that other becomes presently the thing ruled , and not the rule : in regard it wanted the rectitude of another thing to direct it , that so it might be fit to direct us . wherefore the interpretation of scripture being more immediate to the knowing the sense of it's words , ( that is to the knowing our faith ) than is the letter , for it is manifest that all who have the letter have not right faith unless they make a right interpretation of it ; hence mr. m. had reason to object , that the christian church did not agree that every man is to interpret scripture for himself , or to build his faith upon his own private interpretation of it : nor ought you to be offended at his position , in regard you told us before p. . & . a heretical sense may ly under these general words [ christ is the son of god ] and different senses may be couch't under these , christ is really in the eucharist ; and so , ( even according to your self ) 't is the interpretation or the assigning the sense to those words which makes true faith or heresy . wherefore , 't is plain that your own interpretation of scripture is , in true speech , your rule ; for that is a more immediate direction to give you the sense of scripture than is the letter ; which is antecedent , and presuppos'd to the interpretation , as it 's matter or object . nor had you your faith tho' you had the letter , till you had interpreted it . and , besides , the proper and immediate effect of interpretation , is to give the sense of words , and 't is the sense of scripture which is your faith , and so your own private interpretation is unavoidably your rule . if then you will vouch , as you do all over , that the universal consent of all christian churches gave you your rule , it must attest your way of interpreting scripture too , by private judgments ; nay , it must moreover attest that way to be absolutely certain ; otherwise you can never shew how your kind of protestant faith , no better grounded , can be absolutely certain ; and this , as to all the doctrin that was taught by christ and his apostles ; for both which you very unadvisedly undertook when you were at a pinch ; hoping , i suppose , to shift it off again with one of your transferring expedients , or some squinting [ id est ] . to what purpose is it then to tell us here p. . how a man ( one of your sober enquirers i suppose ) is to behave himself , where the texts or places are doubtful . for , unless the consent of all christian churches bring us down by their universal testimony that those methods are to be taken , and that they are absolutely certain means for all that use them to interpret scripture right , or come at the true sense of it , you are still as incapable as ever of shewing us absolute certainty for your faith , or that you have any faith at all by those means . nay , i much mistake you if your principles will allow these means , no not even the testimony which brings down to us the sense of the primitive church ( upon which you here pass a complement ) to be more than fallible . if you do , you admit our rule : if you do not , i would advise you to prepare your reasons to convince the world how a fallible authority can prove that what is built on it is absolutely certain . however , you set the best colour upon these fallible means you can ; telling us , your sober enquirer is to make use of the best helps , the best and most reasonable means , &c. tho' they are such that in likelihood it will take up his whole life time , ere he can use and peruse them all , so as to compass sincerely this satisfaction ; nay 't is ten to one he will dy a seeker : and then he will have enquir'd very soberly , to go to the next world to ask the way to heaven . i wonder how many of the church of england , or even of geneva , made use of all these means ere they finally pitch't upon their faith : i much doubt — vel duo , vel nemo — few or none . and we would know of you whether any of those means , or all together , are absolutely certain . if none , you are still where you were . if you say any or all , you will fight against experience ; for many who use all these means do notwithstanding differ . you would insinuate by the words , [ doubtful places ] that the points your sober enquirers doubt of , are but unnecessary , sleight , or disputable ; but alas ! they are the highest mysteries of our christian faith ; and if they must take such pains , as to compare scripture and expositors , and the sense of the primitive church ( which will require perusing attentively a pretty library ) ere they can accept these for points of faith , what satisfaction is to be expected in all that christ and his apostles taught , by your rule , which asks such laborious study to understand it's sense in these ; or by your method , which is both endless , & when all is done vncertain ? . of how different a judgment the primitive church was , let a chief pillar of it , st. athanasius inform us ( lib. de synodis arimini & seleuciae ) where he blames some clergy-men of his time for going about enquiring what they were to believe , in these words , si credidissent , nunquam , quasi fidem non haberent , de fide quaesivissent . — sese infideles esse declaraverunt , cum id quaerant quod non habent . if they had believ'd , they had never enquir'd , as if they did want faith. — they have declar'd themselves to be vnbelievers by their enquiring after what they have not . so , that , it seems all your sober enquirers are ( according to this fathers judgment ) infidels , or vnbelievers . observe here the vast distance between your principles and those of this holy father and most learned controvertist . nothing but seeking and enquiry ( with the epithet of sober to grace it a little ) will serve your turn ; but , he tells us , on the quite contrary , that , if wee seek , or enquire , we have no faith at all : which , in plain english , signifies thus much ; you judge that to be the onely way to faith , which , he judges a plain argument of having none . you are all for seeking for your faith in scripture ; he , for taking what is already found to our hand some other way , w ch . must be by tradition . one thing i should much wonder at , did not i know your private-spirited principles ; 't is this , why amongst other means you assign for your sober enquirer to make use of , you do not put the iudgment of the present church ( let it be your own if you please ) for one ? i should think the faith of the church had more weight in it , than all the rest put together , if you do indeed hold it a true church ; and 't is far more easy to know its sense , where it has thought fit to explicate it's self clearly . the finding the sense of commentatours , and the places compar'd , and of primitive antiquity , costs infinit trouble ; whereas , there is no difficulty to know the sense of the present church , speaking to you by living voice , and consonant practise . i should think too , 't is most agreeable to the order of the world , the unity of the church , and the maxims of government ( if you will allow any such to a church ) that people should follow the doctrin of their teachers , be led by their pastours , and obey their superiours ; rather than be left to their own private fancies , in matters of such concern , that , if they clash with them in their judgment , it hazards to break all those sacred orders , by which the world subsists . let me ask you one thing , ere we leave this point . is your sober enquirer bound to use these means for his satisfaction in doubtful points , or not ? you say expresly here , that , he is bound to do this ; and , so i suppose you will be disatisfi'd with him , if he falls short of this duty . i ask next , did mr. t. use all these means in a doubtful point , to compass a rational satisfaction ? how should he , when he was satisfi'd , and confirm'd , and resolv'd in so little time . yet , for all your contrary doctrin here , you are well satisfi'd with him , nay , you undertake p. . to satisfy the world that mr. t. had sufficient grounds for what he then said ; which was , that , he was much more confirm'd in the communion of our ( the protestant ) church , and resolv'd to continue in it , pray , sir , was he a sober enquirer or no ? if he was , did he in two hours time , that mr. g. and you were disputing , use the means you say your sober enquirer is bound to make use of in doubtful cases ; as his was , if he dealt sincerely with mr. g. and did not play booty ? did he in two or three hours time , pray , meditate , compare scripture , and expositours upon it , use the help of spiritual guides , & the sense of the primitive church , which , are but some of the means you prescribe p. . he made prodigious hast , if he did use those means : how comes he then to be so satisfi'd , nay , so resolv'd , without using those means ; and so worthy of your patronage , if he did not what you say here , he was bound to do ? these are mysteries , which must be veil'd from the eyes of the vulgar , & prophane . nor is there any way to reconcile these contradictions , but to understand you with this clavis ; that , you say any thing that seems to serve your turn , when you are disputing against us , and disclaim it again when the circumstance is alter'd ; and that , as you pretended that for your rule of faith , which not one in a thousand follow ; so you pretend those methods must be taken , to understand your rule right to the end we may not be deceiv'd by it , which , neither are taken by any , nay , need not be taken at all , tho' you told us here men were bound to take them ; the believing your word that your answer was competent ( * which was indeed none ) acquitted his obligation , and atton'd for his rashness . this , this alone , was so meritorious , that , it was equivalent to prayer , meditation , comparing scripture , and expositours upon it , the help of spiritual guides , and the sense of the primitive church , which , you declare here , such as he were bound to consult for their satisfaction in faith. by which i guess your test to distinguish a sober from a rash enquirer , is , whether he will rely on your word or skill for his security of heaven . if he will , he is of your sober sort without more ado ; and , need not trouble himself with those painfull methods : if he will not , he must go through them all , or be rash. the truth is , you play sure ; and may safely defy any man living ever to enquire himself soberly out of your communion : for , whoever begins , shall be sure to dy before he have enquir'd half way . . at length , to my great comfort ( for 't is tedious to find no reasons to speak to , but still to be employ'd in confuting mistakes ) i am come to the last task , that , as far as i can discern , will belong to my province . towards the end of pag. . your discourse ayms to establish your kind of iudgment of discretion ; which makes such a noise in your books , and of late rings out of the pulpit too . you make way to it thus , if we have the consent of all christian churches against the onely pretended infallible iudge , we have their consent likewise that every man is to judge for his own salvation . your argument , such as it is , stands thus , by the consent of all christian churches , there is no infallible iudge , therefore , every man must judge for himself . it seems then nothing will content you now but infallibility ; and , if that be not to be had , every one may set up for himself in the iudging profession . why , suppose the governours of our church , when you left her , or of your own church either , were fallible ; are you grown so nice on a sudden , and your conscience so tender in embracing any thing less than infallibly-certain , for faith , that fallibility will not serve your turn , which hitherto , you so contentedly hugg'd and ador'd , and so wittily derided any certainty above it ? suppose they had but your sufficient certainty , or great likelyhoods , fair probabilities , or such like , for their interpretations of scripture ; must they therefore lose their power of iudging in that particular , because they are bishops ? or , forfeit the dignity of pastours and leaders , because they are not infallible ? you have such an a king tooth at the churches intermeddling in faith-matters , no not so much as to help her children in the most necessary points ( p. . . ) so they be doubtful , that neither profes't infallibility nor acknowledg'd fallibility will put you in good humour with church-governours ; but out they must , and your sober enquirer starts up in their stead . for he must judge whether they tell him right or no , when all 's done ; i suppose by the light scripture gives him , as he is to judge of the veracity of general councils ; and so we are got into the giddy whirl-pool of a circle . he must learn the sense of scripture by them , and yet trust himself interpreting scripture , not them , for the sense of it ? 't is pitty but he had a blew apron on , and a tub to hold forth in what heavenly light he had gain'd , by interpreting scripture after the method you have shewn him . t is true , if there were no absolute certainty in the way to faith ( and i believe you hold none in your church ) every man must shift for himself as well as he may ; yet still even in that case , he is bound to do that which shall appear best , and come up as neer to certainty as he can . and can he in any reason think his own enquiry will bring him to more certainty , than the pastors of his church , who had been sober enquirers too themselves , and understood the means you assign to make that enquiry , perhaps a thousand times better than himself ? if he thinks them better qualify'd than himself for interpreting scripture , he sins against the light of reason , not to trust them rather than himself : for they have , in that supposition , more knowledge than he ; t is left then , that he is to judge himself to be better qualify'd than his church , her bishops and all his pastors are for that work : and , upon this brisk self-conceit , the book of scripture flies open on a sudden , discloses it's sense , and discovers to him his faith. certainly , such a man is likely to have a very reverend esteem of his church , her bishops and pastors ; and yet , your principles would have all men such . indeed , you would have your sober enquirers , pray and meditate . but , it should seem they are to pray , amongst other things , god would give them the grace not to obey or believe their pastors so much as themselves in necessary points ; ( i hope you hold the tenet of a trinity , christ's god-head , and such other points , such ) which otherwise their honest natural reason , conscious to it self of it's own ignorance , will very much tempt them to do ; and to meditate on god's great mercy , in giving them greater abilities and better assistance than he does to his church ; for they are very ungrateful if they forget so signal and extravagant a favour . but , let us see what is to be meant by an infallible iudge ; for you do not particularize your acception of those words ; nor let your reader see what judge , how , or for what reason we hold him infallible . . if you mean by [ iudge ] an authoritative decider of controversies about faith ( as was said above ) and that ( which is what we hold ) his verdict is infallible by proceeding upon an infallible rule , you must either pretend the christian church never permitted church-governours to exercise their authority in deciding matters of faith ; or else that it never held they had an infallible rule to go by . and i believe your utmost attempts will fall so far short of producing any such consent of universal tradition for either , that it will be directly against you in both ; and you must have a strange opinion of the decrees of general councils , in such cases , if you apprehend they held either of those self-condemning tenets . and yet i cannot tell , but i have made my self too large a promise concerning this universal consent of all christian churches being for us or not against us in this particular : for i remember now , that , when you were to state the notion of tradition , you took in the consent of all former hereticks to make your tradition for scripture larger and firmer than ours is against you , * * and to make your argument stronger by their concurrent testimony ; and i see a glimmering light already , which will grow very clear ere long , you take in the same infamous gang to bear witness against our infallibility ; and what a case is the catholick church in then ? we can never expect those obstinate revolters from that church or those churches which were then in communion with rome , will ever acknowledge the governours had a just authority to declare against them as hereticks ( for they were all of them , to a man , true-blew sober enquirers ) or that those governours proceeded upon an infallible rule ; for this were to cut their own throats , and acknowledge themselves hereticks ; a mortification not to be submitted to by much contumacious spirits . now all these by your principles are to be accounted christian churches , and are call'd so very currently , and very frequently by you ( p. . . . and in many other places ) without any distinction at all . and so we are reduc'd to a very pretty condition , according to the admirable mould in which you have new-cast the church . for , unless all those hereticks of old , any lutherans , calvinists , and all the inferiour subdivisions of faith reformers , vouchsafe to give their concurrent testimony to the infallibility of the roman catholick church ( which condemn'd them all ; and , as appears by the council of trent throughout , by the same rule of tradition ) she is to have no infallibility at all allow'd her ; her old rule too is condemn'd by them for a false light , because it condemn'd them , and their new-light ; nor consequently can she be an infallible iudge in faith-controversies . this is a very hard law ; yet your severe discourses allow us no better quarter . you alledge that the eastern churches utterly deny the roman churche's infalliblely , tho' they be of very different denominations . you mean ( i suppose ) amongst the rest , the nestorians , eutychians , and such kind of good folks . and can you without blushing avail your self of such concurrent testimonies against the body communicating with the roman , and her infallible rule , whose ancestors were condemn'd by that very body to which the present roman-catholick church uninterruptedly succeeds ; and were cast out of the church for receding from the christian doctrine , held even then upon that very rule ? . but what have we to do with any of your pretended christian churches , whether eastern , or not-eastern , modern , or antient ; many or few ? or , what have you to do with them either , if you would , as becomes a controvertist , speak home to us . you know already we place the infallibility of our church in delivering , defining and iudging of faith-controversies , in the absolutely certain rule of tradition . all therefore that have adher'd to tradition as their rule , must allow to her this inerrableness , while she adheres to it , else they must condemn themselves . and those pretended churches which have deserted tradition , can never , for many reasons , be of any competent authority against the roman-catholick . for , having no certain rule , they can have no sure ground of what they believe or alledge against her : and , besides , being her enemies , and condemn'd by her , and that by vertue of this very rule they carp at , common equity tells every man 't is not a pin matter what such men say of that rule , or that church either , whether those men live east , west , north , or south . i perceive by your far-stretcht words here p. . [ all the churches of the christian world , all the eastern churches tho' of very different denominations , that you imagin the force of an authority depends meerly on the number of the witnesses ; whereas we make account it depends much more on their weight ; that is , on their knowledge , and on their sincerity , or indifferency of their wills , as to the person or affair concerning which they are to witness : and fallible congregations , which are both out-casts , and enemies , have for each of those regards , no weight at all . . you have another fetch yet left to prejudice the reader against our tenet . for , you often make mention of our infallibility , the roman , or the roman churches infallibility , and ( as appears p. . and ) of the infallibility of the particular church of rome ; whereas the question , and our true tenet , is , of those many particular churches communicating with the roman ; so that you seem desirous to convince us you are resolv'd never to speak to any point sincerely or represent it ingenuously . for this sleight , tho' it seems trivial , insinuates into your readers , that we hold the very spot of rome is the precise , and adequate mold in which infallibility is cast . please then to remember , and pray let it be the last time we tell you of it , that it is her following the * self-evidently certain rule of tradition , in which as a controvertist i do , in this dispute , place her infallibility . that , being thus absolutely certain of her faith , we can prove she is qualify'd to be an infallible iudge of faith. that every bishop is a iudge of faith-controversies in proportion to his sphere , and the highest bishop above them all : but still , the last resort or test of their final obliging to belief ( for any one may oblige his diocesans to silence for peace's sake ) is with reference to the body of the church ; and the infallibility of the church is refunded into the certainty of her rule ; and there it rests . hence , conscious to your selves of the want of such an infallible rule , you dare pretend to no infallible iudge , but are forc't to leave every particular man to his private iudgment of discretion ; tho' you experience it shatters your church , no better principled , into thousands of sects . in a word , in the way of our controversy , all discourse ought to begin originally , and end finally in an absolutely certain rule of faith ; that is , in such a rule as influences our tenets with the same certainty . we are sure we have such a rule , and , so , we are sure we have true faith ; and we are sure you can have no certainty that you have true faith , because true faith requires absolute certainty , and , therefore , an infallible rule , which you renounce . this is the main point between us , on which depends all the rest , whether it relates to an infallible church or infallible iudge . look it then in the face ; spare it not , but level your whole quiver of reasons at this mark . unless you do this , you do but trifle ; you beat the bush , and scatter leaves , but spring nothing . while this infallible rule remains unconfuted , you must confess there may , and ought to be an infallible iudge ; and your iudgment of discretion is convinced to be a meer libertinage , forcibly granted to all , for want of principles in your selves to ground them certainly in their faith , keep them steady in it , and reduce them to it when they deviate . . to come closer , and take a more distinct view of this iudgment of discretion , i will acquaint you how far and in what i allow it , how far and in what i reject it . i grant that every man is to judge for his own salvation , and to endeavour by his reason to find the way to right faith. i grant with you that all mankind agrees in it ; and therefore wonder at your self-contradiction to make us disagree to it , who certainly are some part of mankind . i grant that , otherwise , 't is to no purpose to go about to make converts : i add , nor for you , and me , to write controversies . i grant that every man is to judge of the best way to salvation , and of all the controversies between us and you ; and especially of the true grounds of faith ; and to be well satisfy'd who proceeds on a certain rule , who not ; and that the contrary tenet is as ridiculous as what 's most , unless your putting upon us , against your daily experience , such a sottishness as to hold it . i add , that , since every man is to judge of his grounds , therefore the rule of faith must be such as needs not much learning and reading , * but must ly level to every man's natural light of understanding ; as the nature of testifying authority , and it's certainty does . i will grant you moreover , that to deprive mankind of this priviledge of judging thus , is to debarr him of the light and use of his reason , when 't is most needful for him ; that is , when it should direct him how to find out the way to his eternal happiness , and , avoid the paths that lead him to eternal misery . but , i utterly deny , that therefore , he ought to think it discretion to hammer out his faith by the dints of his private and unelevated reason , from words that are of so deep , and mysterious a sense ; and this , after he has experienced that multitudes of other men , as wise or wiser than himself , and ( for ought he can discern ) very sincere too , do their best to understand them right ; and yet , as appears by their contradicting one another in matters of highest importance , one of those great , and learned parties , does erre most dangerously ; i deny that his discretion can lead him to judge that god's providence has left no absolutely certain way to faith , it being of so vast a concern , and highest necessity : or that it can command him to assent firmly and unalterably to any tenet as a truth , nay , profess it to be such , even with the laying down his life to attest it ; and yet that , notwithstanding , it may be a lye , for any thing can be known by the grounds he goes upon . and , therefore , i deny that , in case faith depends on some authority bringing it from christ ( without certainty of which none can be certain 't is true at all ) that authority should be fallible in that affair , and perhaps deceive him while he trusts it , or relies on it : or , in case it depends on some other means ( viz. scripture's letter , and his own interpretation of it ) that means should not certainly bring him to the end , if he makes use of it to the best of his power : i deny it to be discretion to think himself capable to judge he has absolute certainty of the intire books of scripture , even to such particular words or verses he builds on , but by our tradition for doctrine ; as likewise of their translations and transcriptions all along ; and , of the copies being taken at first from the true original ; whence i deny he can with true reason judge his faith true ; since a fault in any of these may make it false . i deny that he can with any discretion judge that the ways you prescribe p. . for your sober enquirer to understand the letter of scripture right , and so come at true faith , ( viz. comparing scripture and expositours upon it , help of spiritual guides ( who confess they may all be deceiv d , and so may mislead him ) and knowing the sense of the primitive church , &c. ) are the means left by god for men to arrive at faith and salvation ; since to do this , he sees so many volumns must be read over , compar'd , and well-weigh'd , that in all likelihood , a hundred parts of mankind for one ( i may say a thousand ) would dy e're they could make a certain choyce which side to take in dubious points ; and to add to his discomfort , those points which of all other , are of highest concern , as are the trinity , christ's godhead , the real presence of christ's body in the sacrament , the efficacy of god's grace , and such like , are the most dubious ; as being most controverted by the pretenders to the scripture-rule . i deny he can with any discretion , when he comes to receive satisfaction of the absolute certainty of his faith , suffer himself to be fobb'd off with telling him there is absolute certainty of such a book which contains it ; when common sense tells him he is as far as ever from having such a certainty of his faith , unless he has the same certainty he interprets that book right ; and does not err perniciously by misunderstanding the sense of it in those important articles : especially , since your selves , tho' it be against your own interest , are forc't to confess other great and learned bodies had most grievously misunderstood its meaning , who had both the same letter , and the same means to look into it that he has , & all that your grounds afford him . i deny , he can with the least discretion judge it possible that all christian fathers could forget to day what they held yesterday ; or that they should , if they remember'd it , knowingly resolve to damn themselves and posterity , by teaching them a wrong faith ; or , that they could conspire to do so if they would ; and consequently , that he ought not , if he acts discreetly , judge , that this rule of tradition is an absolutely , or infallibly-certain conveyer of christ's faith down to our dayes . whence , i deny that he can with the least grain of discretion refuse to communicate with those who proceed on such an evidently certain rule , and are found in possession of their faith upon that secure tenure ; and adhere to those others who declare against any infallible rule ; that is , who confess the means they have to know any one particular point of faith or ( which is all one ) any faith at all , is fallible ; that their guides may perhaps all mislead them , and their rule permit the followers of it to err. you see now how we allow them the use of their reason , and judgment of discretion , till it brings them to find a certain authority ; and , when they have once found that , the same iudgment of discretion , which shew'd them that authority was absolutely certain , obliges them to trust it , when it tells them what is christ's faith ; without using their private judgment any longer , about the particular points themselves , thus ascertain'd to them , but submitting to it. in doing which , yet , they do not at all relinquish their reason , but , follow and exercise it . for , nothing is more rational than to submit to an authority which my reason has told me is absolutely certain , in things which the same reason assures me can no other wayes be known certainly but by that authority . . now , let us consider the iudgment of discretion , as understood by you , of which your sober enquirer makes use to find out his faith. 't is onely employ'd about searching out the sense of scripture's letter by fallible means ; which he can never hope will preserve him certainly from errour , let him do his very best ; since he is told , even by your selves , that great bodies of very learned men , and acute scripturists do follow the same rule , and yet erre in the highest articles of our belief ; nay , he sees himself , by daily experience , how many sects follow that for their rule , yet vastly differ . whence , instead of judging discreetly , he commits the most absurd indiscretion in the world , to hazard his salvation upon his own interpretation of scripture ; when , at the same time , he is told by those very men who propose to him this rule , that there is no absolute security ( neither by his own industry , nor his churche's veracity ) from erring in that interpretation . and , not onely this , but he sees or may see , if he will soberly enquire , what certain grounds are propos'd by others ; and yet suffers his reason , and the truth to be run down with the noisy hubbubs against popery ; and , either out of a blameable weakness , or , perhaps out of an inexcusable obstinacy , rejects those grounds , or disregards the looking into them . i say again , inexcusable : for , the very nature of faith tells him , that , 't is an vnalterable assent , and , that it cannot possibly be a ly ; whence , common sense will tell him , 't is not to be hoped for amongst those who confess that all the knowledge they have of each particular point of faith , ( that is of any faith ) is fallible ; and , onely likely to be had amongst those who own and maintain their grounds cannot deceive them ; so that , such a man , if he ever came to a due reflexion upon what most concerns him , sins against the light of reason , in many regards ; and , what you call iudgment of discretion is convinc't to be the most vnjudicious indiscretion imaginable : and , your sober enquirer , who builds all his hopes of salvation upon such a iudgment , proves himself ( the weight of the concern being duly consider'd ) to be the most rash and hair-brain'd opiniastre , and the most credulously blind , that ever submitted and prostituted his rational faculty ( with which god has endow'd him , and will require a strict account of him , how he has us'd it ) to a most groundless and improbable conjecture . disregarding all authority out of his presumption on his own skill , or that he is more in god's favour than the whole church ; and , i much fear , out of a spiritual pride , and self-conceit , that he can find out all necessary faith well enough of himself , without being beholding to any church at all ; or , ( as you instruct him here p. . and declare openly and avowedly you are not asham'd of it ) without the churches help . which , is the very first principle , nay , the quintessence of all heresy ; fanaticism in the egg , perfect enthusiasm when hatch't , and downright atheism when fledge . finis . the fourth catholick letter in answer to dr. stillingfleet's sermon , preach't at guild-hall , november th . . entituled , scripture & tradition compared , addrest to his auditory . by iohn sergeant . published with allowance . london printed , and sold by matthew turner at the lamb in high-holbourn . . to the reader . perhaps the smart expressions and plausible methods that dr. st. so affects in his late discourse concerning the nature and grounds of the certainty of faith , in which he pretends to answer the catholick letters , may have rais'd expectation in many indifferent men , and triumph in some of his partial admirers ; wherefore , to stay the appetites of the former , and give some check to the over-weening of the later : i thought it fitting to say somthing here by way of preface , to give our readers a short account of his main performances in that discourse , till i come to publish a compleat answer to the whole . what i affirm of it , and undertake to make good , is ; . that he so strangely prevaricates from the whole business we are about , that he even forgets we are writing controversy ; and would turn the polemical contest in which we are engag'd , into a dispute of school-divinity ; bearing the reader in hand , that we are treating of faith , as formally divine , and of all the intrinsical requisites to it , as it is such ; tho' none of them be controverted between us , and some of them are perhaps onely knowable by god himself . the meanest reflecter may discern how impossible 't is for the dr , my self , or any man living , to put such particulars as these into our proofs , or arguments ; and how unpardonable an absurdity 't is to alledge them in our circumstances . the very nature ( i say ) of controversy , obliges and restrains us both to speak of faith precisely according to what is controverted between the contending parties ; and the nature of our present contest , which is about an absolutely-certain rule to know this matter of fact , that christ and his apostles did teach the doctrines we profess , determines us both to speak of divine faith precisely as it stands under such a rule , recommending our faith to us , as deliver'd by christ , and proving it to be his genuin doctrin . . that , whatever the big letters in his title pretend , he neither shews from the nature of faith , as it lies under our consideration , that it does not need the perfect certainty we require ; nor that the certainty he assignes to make us adhere to it as true , is not perfect uncertainty ; since he does not bottom it on the firm ground of the things themselves without us , in which creative wisdome has imprinted all truths ; but , on our own aiery apprehensions , or undoubting perswasions ; which must necessarily be unsteady , when the knowledge of those things does not fix them . particularly ( which more closely touches our present controversy ) the certainty he substitutes to that advanc't by us , which excludes deception , is impossible to be manifested by outward arguments to others , being only his own interiour satisfaction or opinion ; which , as it is invisible , so it may , in disputes , be , with just reason ; rejected by any man at his pleasure . lastly , whereas he pretends to lay grounds for the absolute c●●tainty of faith , he shall never be able to shew he has laid any one ground thus certain ( which is what he pretended ) worthy the name of a ground , for the only point in debate ; viz. that christ and his apostles taught thus or thus ; but instead thereof , such feeble foundations , as leave christian faith , whose truth depends necessarily upon the truth of christ's teaching it , in the opprobrious and scandalous condition of being possibly ( or perhaps ) false . in a word , he was to shew the absolute certainty of his grounds of faith , and he so handles the matter , that one would think , instead of shewing them , he were shewing there was no such certainty requisit , and so none needs to be shewn . the rest of his answer consists , generally , of impertinent excursions , disingenuous cavils , witty avoidances of any rub that should hinder his discourse from sliding on smoothly . his mistakes ( whether sincere or affected the reader is to judge ) are numberless , his scornful jests frequent , and either meer trifles , or built upon chimaeraes of his own invention . all which deliver'd in poignant and smart language , give a pretty tang of gayity and briskness to his discourses , and counterfeit a kind of liveliness of reason ; when as i dare avouch , and shall make it good , he has not one single argument that is pertinent and sincere in the whole course of his answer . i pass by his omissions , which are both very many , and most important ; as likewise how he does not take his adversaries discourse end-wayes , as i did his ; nor gives the due force to his arguments ; but skips up and down , here and there , skimming off the superficial part of them by playing upon his words , without regarding the full sense ; that so he might make a more plausible mock-shew of an answer . lastly , his evasions , as is the natural progress of non-plust errour , are still worse and worse , and are confuted by being detected . 't is easy to discern by his expressions he is much piqu'd and out of humour ; nor can i blame him ; for 't is too severe a tryal of patience , for a man of his great abilities and authority , to be so closely prest to shew his grounds why he holds it true ( or which is the same , impossible to be false ) that the faith he pretends to , was indeed christs doctrine , and to find himself utterly unfurnish't with any means to perform it . but i have reason to hope there will need no more to let the reader see that all that glisters in the drs. writtings is not gold , but his carriage in this sermon of his which i now come to examine ; and to make him judge , that , if he hath dealt so delusively with his auditors when he spoke out of the pulpit in god's name , he will scarce behave himself more sincerely towards me , when he speaks in his own . the fourth catholick letter . gentlemen , § . when controversies are preach't out of pulpits , every well-meaning hearer is apt to conceit , that what sounds thence is to be receiv'd as a voice from heaven : too great a disadvantage to be admitted by a person concern'd , who judges he is able to shew 't is but a false eccho : especially , when he sees this forestalling the world by a sermon , is a meer preparation to turn the question quite off the hinges ; and , withal , as the preface intimates , to bring it from the handling one single point , which bears all the rest along with it , to the debating of many ; none of which can be decided , till that be first clear'd . hence i esteem'd it not only a justice to my self , but a christian duty to others , to address my defence to you , his auditory ; who ( i fear ) were led into errours by many particulars in that sermon , relating to our controversy . i have reason to hope this discourse will keep your thoughts impartial ; which done , i will desire no other umpire of our contest , at present , but your selves . § . . it being the chief and most precise duty of a controvertist to secure the truth of christian faith , and this not being possible to be done , without proving it true that christ or his apostles taught it : hence , it has ever been my endeavour to establish that fundamental verity in the first place , by settling some method that might secure it with a perfect or absolute certainty . nature tells us , an end cannot be compassed without a a means enabling us to attain it ; whence , the first thing to be examin'd is , what that means is , that is to give us this certainty . your common reason assures you , that what 's [ true ] cannot possibly be false ; and the common sentiment of all christians , and the very notion of faith it self , has , i doubt not , imbu'd you with this apprehension , that your faith cannot but be true ; nor does any thing sound more harsh to a christian ear than to affirm that all christian faith may perhaps be but a lying story ; which yet 't is unavoidable it may be , if it may not be true that 't is christ's doctrine . § . . you will wonder perhaps , when i acquaint you this is my greatest quarrel with dr. st. and others of his principles , that they make all christian faith possible to be false . dr. tillotson , with whom he agrees , and whose rule of faith he approves , maintains there , that there is no absolute security to be had from our being deciev'd in judging we have the right letter , or right sense of the holy scripture , or that they were writ by those divinely-inspired persons ; but that , notwithstanding all the certainty we can have of those particulars , * it is possible all this may be otherwise . this i say , as appears by my preface to the second catholick letter , and by my discourses quite through all the three , is our grand contest , under which all our other differences subsume . but this dr. st. was so prudent as to conceal from you , lest it should shock all his well-meaning hearers ; and i do assure you , and shall shew it , that , in those matters which he thought it expedient to let you know , he so misrepresents every thing , that he has both deluded you , injur'd the truth , and quite dropt the question . whether he is to make satisfaction to truth and to you , or i to him , is to be determin'd by the evidence i bring to make good my charge . to state the question then . § . . as to the holy scriptures , my very principles oblige me to declare that what i attribute to them , is , first , that they have all those excellencies which dr. st. yields them , and one more which he does not ; of which hereafter . secondly , that they are profitable to all the ends st. paul writing to timothy ascribes to them ; and that in such a high measure , that i do from my heart grant them to be so great an instrument of our salvation , that the church had been at an incredible loss without them ; & that not near half the number of christian souls would have been sav'd , had it not pleas'd god to leave to the church such a powerful means to instruct them in a virtuous life , and raise them up to it . thirdly , that , when they are animated with the sense of the divinely-inspired writers by a certain interpretation , they are very useful to confute hereticks ; and that , thus interpreted , they are with much profit made use of , to that end , by fathers and councils . fourthly , that , tho' they were written on several occasions , it was not without the design of god's good providence ; which orders all our actions to the bringing about his best ends , however they be occasional to us ; much more an affair so mainly important to the churches improvement . fifthly , that there was also a peculiar providence in preserving the letter from any material corruption ; and , that the second causes by which this providence exerted it self , was the most obligatory care of the church to whom those sacred oracles were committed , and the knowledge she ever had of christ's doctrin . thly , that the sense of scripture is so sublime in spiritual points and high mysteries of faith , which are above nature , and could only be known to the world by divine revelation , that no men by their private judgments , much less all sorts of men coming to faith ( and therefore unelevated and unenlighten'd by it ) can arrive at the knowledge of it's sense by the letter in those difficult texts , with such an unerring certainty as is requisit for that most firm , rational and unalterable assent , call'd faith ; and , therefore , that in these , they need the help of the church : whereas in other passages that are historical , moral , &c. where the subject matter is more obvious to ordinary reason , they are either clear of themselves , or may be clear'd , as much as is necessary , by the learning of the more knowing faithful . for the same reason i hold , that scripture , thus privately interpreted , is not convictive of hereticks , who have imbib'd a contrary sentiment to that of the divine enditer ; because those men admit no certain interpreter of those difficult places . and , this want of clearness in such texts , i do not take to be a privative imperfection ; but , on the contrary , to argue a very high perfection in scripture ; viz. as vincentius lirinensis has told us years ago , commonitor , cap. . it 's deep sense ; whence 't is rather to be call'd properly , a disproportion of that sense to the low conceptions of private iudgments looking after faith ; or an obscurity , relatively to such persons , than an absolute one : since the faithful , who are instructed in that sense , are both capable to understand it right , and moreover to discover still more and more excellent truths in it . thly , that for this reason , i cannot hold the letter of scripture privately interpreted the rule of faith , or a means for people of every capacity , looking after faith , to know the sense of it in those dogmatical articles ; with such a certainty , as was shewn above to be necessary for a ground of faith ; nor can i allow that the truth of christian faith ought to be built upon such a sandy foundation as are those private interpretations . and , therefore , that there needs some other rule to ascertain people of all sorts what is christ's true doctrin in those points . moreover , i make account the experience of all ages since christ's time abets my position . every heretick , and all his followers , relying on his private interpretations of scripture for his wicked blasphemies ; as the socinians do now , who are ( as far as we can discern ) sincere and exact followers of that rule , or vsers of that means ; and yet , fall short of christ's genuin doctrine , denying his godhead , and the mystery of the b. trinity ▪ a plain argument that that cannot be the way to truth , which such vast multitudes have follow'd , and yet have been led into errour , unless we knew them all to be wilfully sincere , or strangely negligent ; which we can neither know , nor have reason to think . and , as experience has shewn this to every mans eye , so neither is it my sentiment onely . the same * lirinensis telling us , that by reason of the scripture's depth , as many opinions as there are men seem possible to be drawn thence . where he ascribes the obscurity of the letter not meerly to the fault of the persons , nor the hardness of the words , in which the sense is deliver'd , but to the profoundness of the sense it self ; reason and experience both informing us , that , where the matter is above the readers capacity , tho' the words be never so plain , yet the doctrine is not easily comprehended without some who is already skill'd in that sense . § . . as for tradition ; the very sound of the word may perhaps give you some prejudice against it , because our saviour reprehended the jews for some unwarrantable traditions of theirs . this obliges me to give you a true character of our tenet concerning it , and to make known to you particularly what [ tradition ] means , as we understand it in our controversies ; which dr. st. ( tho' he knows it ) will never do ; but , on the contrary , ( as shall be seen ) misrepresents it all along very disingenuously in every particular . what we hold of it then , is , first , that the apostles , by their preaching during the whole time of their lives , settled the self-same christian doctrin in the minds of the generality of the faithful , dispersed in several countries ; and not only at large and particularly explicated it , and fixt it by their heavenly preaching , but riveted it ( as we may say ) by miracles ; founded churches , and constituted disciplin ; by means of which , and their own example , they establish't them in the practice of that doctrin . lastly , they recommended the continuing it as the means of salvation ; and , consequently , that the swerving from it themselves , or neglecting to educate their children in it , was the assured way to eternal misery to them and their posterity . dly , that this vast multitude unanimously settled in the same faith is that which we make the first source of tradition ; which had no more to do but to attest to the next age what the first had receiv'd and practis'd ; nor could they forget a doctrin which was so recommended , and according to which they had led their christian lives so long : nor could true faith ( the parent of all other virtues ) which was in their hearts , no nor even the natural love to themselves and their children , permit them all to be so wicked as to decline from it voluntarily , or neglect to educate the others in it ; however , it was to be expected there would be now and then a failure in some particulars , deserting the former doctrin , and drawing proselytes after them . dly , that , the same reason holds for the continuate delivery of the same doctrin by the second age to the third , and so still forwards ; the most powerful motives god himself could propose being laid to oblige christians not to deviate from it in the least , or be careless to recommend it . and those motives too a thousand times more lively imprinted and apprehended by the heaven-instructed faithful , than they were by any in the former ages of the world , before christ. thly , that by [ tradition ] then is meant , the testimony of the whole foregoing age of christians to the next age , of what had been deliver'd , and explain'd to them by their living voice and practice . or , taking tradition ( as it ought to be ) for oral and practical both , 't is , a continu'd education of undergrowing posterity in the principles and practice of their immediate predecessours . thly , that hence 't is evident beyond needing proof , that this rule cannot ( on it's part ) deceive us . for , putting that it was still follow'd , or , that posterity still believ d and practis'd as their immediate fore-fathers did , who at first believ'd and practis'd as the apostles had instructed them ; 't is manifest the last age of the world must have the same faith that the first age of christianity had . whence follows evidently that no errour could possibly come in at any time unless this rule of tradition had been deserted . thly , that tradition , thus understood , ( and we never understood it otherwise ) being the living voice and practice of the church in the immediate age before , is applicable to all even of the lowest capacity ; as we experience , to some degree , in the instructions by pastours even now adays . and , since it delivers it's sense ( which , in those that have follow'd that rule , has been even now shewn to be christ's doctrin ) by preaching ▪ catechizing , explaining , daily practising , and all the ways imaginable to make it understood , 't is also an absolutely-clear conveyer of christ's doctrin downwards . add that , should it's sense be at any time misapprehended , the church and her pastours can explain their own meaning , pertinently to the askers , doubter's or mistaker's exigencies ; which a letter in a book cannot . thly , that the chief care of the church was to inculcate to the faithful , and preserve inviolate the chief points of the christian faith ; and , therefore , that tradition did most particularly exert it's self in teaching and transmitting those . thly , 't is not to be deny'd but scriptural tradition went along with this other we have explain'd . for the church having the same sense in her breast which the first writers had , were , consequently , the best interpreters of it ; which was one reason why the fathers and councils often made use of it to confute hereticks , and comfort the faithful by it's concurrence . but , when they were to convert any to faith , it was never heard , they took such a method as to put the bible in his hand , and bid him look for his faith there ; telling him 't was plain even in the highest points , that were dubious or controverted , to every capacity . thly , that , hence , scripture , * without the churches help , was never held by them anciently , nor can with reason be held by us now to be the rule of faith , in the sense we use that word ; that is , to be a means or way for all who are coming to faith , to arrive unerringly at it . lastly , we hold that the sense of scripture's letter , in those sublime points , surpasses the apprehensions of private men coming to faith ; and , so , the letter alone cannot be an assured ground to build the truth of christian faith upon : whence follows that tradition ( which is plain and easy ) and only it , can be in proper speech the rule of faith. § . . this then is the true state of the question between us . this is our true tenet , both concerning scripture and tradition , and what are the points to be ascertain'd by them . now , let us see how the sermon represents us , and whether your admired preacher does so much as touch any one of these particulars . § . . in the first place you may please to take notice that he never lets you know , or so much as suspect that the main contest between him and me is about the absolute certainty , or uncertainty of christian faith , his wicked doctrin , in that point , oblig'd me to write a * whole treatise formerly in vindication of christianity from such an intolerable scandal ; which i apply'd , in the cloze of it , against himself and dr. tillotson . had he let you know this , he prudently foresaw your zeal for christianity ( your best concern ) would have given you a just prejudice against his sermon , and the preacher too ; and the very conceit all christians have of the truth of their faith , would have made you abhor a discourse out of a pulpit , maintaining it might possibly be a ly. as for particulars . § . . first , he talks of a stedfastness , and a firm and well-settled resolution to adhere to that faith which christ himself deliver'd . but , ought you not to be assur'd first that he did indeed deliver it ? or are you to adhere to it as his , whether you are certain 't is his or no ? or is a resolution , to hold stedfastly to what you judge is the faith of christ , well-settled , if that faith of yours , the basis of your spiritual building and ground of that resolution , be not well-settled it self , but may sink into false-hood ? this is the true point you are to look after ; and , till you have perfect satisfaction from him in this , wisely to consider , that pious talk without solid grounds to support their truth , is but painting the out-side of a sepulcher . the tinkling cymball of a little rhetorick , and shews of much reading , may go far with persons whom such flourishes can prevail upon to forgo their reason ; but he had but a very small respect for you , if he hop't you were so easy to be play'd upon with the wind of a little articulate ayr . § . . it was very possible , he says , for them to have mistaken or misremember'd what was at first deliver'd : whom does he mean by [ them ] what by [ first delivery ] ? does he mean the vniversality of christians in the first age , or any succeeding one ? or that those great bodies settled in their faith , form'd into church-government , and kept up to their christian duties by disciplin , could thus mistake or misremember the former teaching and practice , which was a plain matter of fact ? this is the only tradition we ever spoke of , or went about to defend . none doubts , but that , when some single apostle was preaching in some places at first , the thoughts of the hearers were as yet raw , and the things that were told them were so strange , that they did not immediately sink deep into the conceptions of the generality . but , it was otherwise , when in tract of time that doctrin was farther spread , more often inculcated , and more clearly explain'd ; and well-instructed pastours constituted , to teach it more expressly , and put them forwards to practise it . he mistake● then and misrepresents the whole nature of our tradition ; and by antedating it , sights against it , before it could have a being . and , as this errour runs through all his discourses , and weak inferences out of scripture ; so the laying it open once for all , is a full confutation of them all at once . add , that he never consider'd whether , when those several churches err'd , or were in hazard to err , they did so by following even that particular tradition , or preaching of such or such an apostle ; or , whether they came to err by deserting it . if the later , the tradition was not faulty , but they who deserted it ; yet , how different soever these two points are , the one making for that particular tradition , the other against it , he never thinks of distinguishing them , or letting the reader know when the tradition was in fault , and when the persons ; but runs on in common words , as if he had no design , or determinate prospect whither he was going . i am sure it is not at all towards the true question , nor against us. § . . but , tho' all his reflexions from the several pieces of scripture are quite besides the purpose , yet his candid and solid way of managing his own mistakes , and how he wire-draws every thing to make it seem fit , deserves our particular observation . he tells us , speaking of the church of corinth , that they ( which signifies the whole church ) had like to have lost all their faith ; whereas the text only sayes [ some among you . ] and , is it such a wonder that some among many should hap to be imperfectly instructed , fantastical or refractory to their teachers . but his partiality is most remarkable . when he was forc't to be beholding to the churches testimony of doctrine ( which is our tradition ) to abet the scripture ; he could tell us then , this is very different from the case of particular persons in some churches , who might mistake or forget what was taught ; but ( sayes he ) — the churches themselves could not agree to approve on errour in the gospel contrary to the faith deliver'd to them . so that there it was a very different case ; but here it seems the case is not different at all , but the very same . for [ some among you ] are enlarg'd to signify that church it self ; and whereas the only point those some deny'd , was the resurrection of the dead , to let you see how utterly insignificant a thing tradition is that can do no good at all , he extends it to signify [ all their faith ] hoping i suppose any thing would pass upon you , so 't were spoke out of a pulpit ; 't is told you there , all 's gods word ; and he presumes you will be so civil to god almighty , and so kind to himself as to accept it for such , and swallow it for pure truth . § . . i am oblig'd to him for allowing , that the testimony of every christian church did shew the concurrence of all the apostles , as to the doctrine contain'd in the several gospels . for then , i hope , they may be able to shew to the next age ( and so forwards ) the concurrent doctrine of the first , which establishes the original of our tradition to be absolutely certain . he discourses well ( p. . ) and he ends better ; that the memory of the apostles doctrin was so fresh in their minds , that it was in effect the consent of all the apostles who had taught them . and yet better ; that the concurrent testimony of all the apostolical churches could not let them agree to approve an errour in the gospels , contrary to the faith deliver'd to them . this is very extraordinary kind and no less solid . for , . these words , [ could not agree to approve a contrary doctrine ] makes their testimony infallible . . this discourse makes the acceptation of the truth of the gospels , that is of their sense , depend on vnwritten tradition . we cannot doubt but that doctrine was full as fresh in their memories , when they were grown older , and were to transmit it to the next age after the apostles decease , as it was before ; unless they lost the memory of it , by discoursing of it more while they taught it to others , & by practising it longer themselves . . as little can it be doubted but the doctrine and practise of the first age , was as fresh in the minds of the second age , since they led their christian lives by it ; for it was equally intelligible , and of equal concern still to them to learn and teach it , as it was to the first . lastly , that this being so , the testimony of that body , even now adays , that adheres to tradition , * is in effect , the consent of all the apostles that taught it at first . observe , gentlemen , that this is the only time dr. st. has so much as touch 't upon our tradition ; and that he is so far from impugning or confuting it , that he , in some part directly , in others by necessary consequence , acknowledges it's force , and strongly abets it . but , it was not out of good will ; he was intent in that place upon making good the truth of the gospels ; and , assoon as he has made use of it to serve a present turn , he immediately discards it as good for little or nothing , or nothing to the particular purpose he had lately allow'd , the testifying christs doctrine . § . . for the very next page , he reckons up three things , for which , the common tradition of the apostolical churches were useful after the decease of the apostles . but not a word of their vsefulness to testify to others what they had learnt from those masters of christianity . no sooner were the apostles dead , and that first age had , by their concurrent testimony of the doctrine they had receiv'd from them , given credit to the truth of the written gospels ; but immediately the whole christian world had lost their memory of that doctrine on a sudden , and the grace to preserve and propagate it . one would think by this wild discourse of his , that both common natural parts , and all degrees of ordinary honesty had been preserv'd to them miraculously thitherto , meerly to recommend the truth of the gospels ; and , that assoon as that was done , and the apostles were dead , the author of nature and grace suspended or rather subtracted for ever all his influence , & left them a tabula rasa ( without either memory or goodness ) to learn their faith a new out of scripture . § . . and , hence it is that he rallies upon universal testimony or tradition as if it were some sleight story of a few tatling gossips , or of those who heard what some say , that others told them , who had it from such , &c. whereas had he said as he ought to have said , what the whole first age of christians witnest to the next age , that they had heard , seen , and practic 't ; and the whole next age to the third , and so forwards , with an obligation still to transmit it , equal to that the first age had to believe it , there had been no place left for his ridiculous raillery . but his constant method is this ; he endeavours to put you out of conceit with tradition , by concealing every thing that might give you a true conceit what tradition is , and what we mean by it . § . . the argument or instance he brings to prove that the authority of tradition was mightily sunk in the second century , is , if possible , ten thousand times worse , one would verily think , from those big words , he would prove that all the christians of the first age had conspir'd to tell a ly to the second , concerning christ's doctrin . but , this mountainous expectation came off with a poor little mouse , the relation of one single man , papias , of what an apostle had told him ; which he being a good honest soul , gain'd credit with diverse . tho' , as for his wit , dr. st's author , eusebius , tells us he was a man of a mean capacity , and scarce understood the meaning of what was spoken , i wonder the dr. blush't not to put such a slur upon his auditory , as to compare the publick authority of the whole christian world , and the universal testimony of god's church , to the private story of one weak man ; or to pretend hence that if he were mistaken , the authority of tradition mightily sinks and fails ; whereas 't is only his own credit that falls into that disaster by making such a senseless argument . yet , this is the best , and , as far as i can find , the only one he has brought to prove directly the first age of christians had bely'd christ's doctrin to the second ; and that because one man of a mean capacity mistook , we may stand in doubt of our assurance whether all the learneder faithfull , nay all the pastours and bishops in the church , had capacity enough to know an open matter of fact , viz. what had been taught and practis'd publickly every day by a world of fore-fathers , or the integrity not to deceive us . § . . of the same stamp is his alledging that st. luke's reason why he writ his gospel , was to give theophilus certainty of those things wherein he had been instructed . the subject of our enquiry is about the high points of christian belief : does the dr. think then that theophilus was not a christian , or had no certain knowledg of his faith , ere st. luke writ ? or , that the apostles did not instruct people in those main articles ? or that st. luke's writing those points in short ( for those points we speak of take up a very inconsiderable part of his gospel ) could make him know it better , and with more certainty than their preaching it at large ? with what sense can any of this be pretended ? the apostles did miracles to attest their doctrin : did st. luke , do any to attest the true sense of all he writ in those points ? again , what did his gospel contain ? only those dogmatical points controverted from time to time between the sons of the church , and her deserters ; of which , and none but which , we speak ? alas ! these are the least part of his gospel , and make but a small appearance in it . he relates our saviour's genealogy , temptation , fasting , miracles , parables , his sending his apostles and disciples , his exhortations to repentance and good life , the manner of his entring into ierusalem , his instituting the last supper , the particulars of his being apprehended , accus'd , condemn'd , and crucify'd . lastly , his burial , resurrection , apparitions and ascension . these are laid out in that gospel at large , together with many excellent sayings of our blessed saviour related verbatim . and these , as they were never pretended by us to be the object of tradition ; so , tho' spoken of frequently ( and perhaps variously ) amongst christians , were impossible ever to be perfectly remember'd by the generality , unless put in a book ; and therefore st. luke gives theophilus ( and others ) the certain and particular knowledge of all these passages by writing : and dr. st. confesses the same ( p. . ) and that his aym and intention was to give an account of the life and actions of christ , but not a word that his writing was to give theophilus certainty or a clearer knowledge of those main articles , to ascertain which tradition is pretended by us to be the most proper means . § . . now let 's see how many notorious prevarications and faults he has fallen into in this one instance . . our whole controversy is about the certainty of those sublime points of christian faith ; which he conceals , and confounds them with a multitude of particular passages . . he intimates our tradition is to ascertain all that 's contain'd in st. luke's gospel . whereas , he knows well , we rely upon no tradition but what 's in some degree practical , which those particulars are not ; unless it be those , of which we keep anniversary solemnities . . he is so angry at tradition , that he pretends the very oral tradition or preaching of the gospel by the apostles , needed something to strengthen and confirm it . lastly , he makes our tradition to begin with the first preaching of the apostles ; whereas , it dates it 's original from the first age of christianity ; already perfectly instructed by them , during all their lives , and settled into ecclesiastical order and discipline at their decease . § . . he seems at length to come neerer the point , and affirms , that the writings of the apostles , when matters of doctrin came to be contested , were the infallible rule whereby they were to judge which was the true and genuin doctrin of christ ; and , which is yet better , that they were intended by the holy ghost , to be a standing rule , whereby the church was to judge which was the true and genuin doctrine of christ. i am glad with all my heart , to hear him speak of the church being a judge of controversies ; or , that he allows her any hand in ascertaining and proposing faith. i ever understood him hitherto , that every sober enquirer was to judge of the sense of scripture for himself ; that it was plain to him even in the highest points ; and , that if , in any contested or dubious articles , the letter of scripture did not declare it explicitly , his sober enquirer could * by parity of reason render any implicit point explicit , * without the church's help ; tho' this was the most difficult task as to the penetrating the sense of scripture that is possible , and far beyond the understanding what 's there explicitly . he told us too in his second letter , p. , . that , because there is no infallible iudge — every man is to iudge for himself ; and this by scripture , his rule . but , here the case is alter'd , and the church is to judge of christ's doctrin by scripture . i can allow honest retractions without upbraiding them ; and am contented that the church should judge by scripture , both when she is to edify her children , and in contests with hereticks , as to all those points contain'd there ; and , i think the only difficulty in that particular is , by what means she came to be absolutely-certain of it's sense . let him add then but one word more , and say that by the letter of scripture she so judg'd of faith , that she could not be in an errour , or mistaken all the while , and then christian faith is absolutely-certain , and my greatest care is over . and , if he does not that , what is the future church , after the apostles deaths , the better for scripture's being an infallible rule , if she and her children partake not the benefit of that infallibility some way or other , by being perfectly secur'd from erring in faith ? is it not all one as to the intent of knowing assuredly we have the faith taught by christ , whether we have an infallible rule or no , if , when we have done our best , we may still stray from her faith ? or , why is not a rule that is not absolutely-certain , so i have absolute certainty i am directed by it , as good for that purpose , as an absolutely-certain rule with no absolute certainty that i do indeed go according to it . to speak to his proposition : whether the church and the faithful in contests with hereticks avail'd her self of scripture's letter , to gain absolute-certainty of it's sense , in those main tenets ; or brought the sense ( which she had another way ) along with her , shall be decided if he pleases , by st. austin , whom he cites here , p. . § . . he will prove scripture a rule from the general reason of it's writing ; and prove this general reason from a testimony of irenaeus , which speaks of the gospel as abstracted from being preach't and written ; and who doubts but as such it is infallibly true . he seems to build much upon the words [ that it might be a foundation and pillar of our faith. ] be it what it will in it self , the point is , how does it build faith in us ? by it 's meer letter , descanted upon by private iudgments , or , interpreted by the church ? the later he denies ; the former , all our most earnest pressing and intreating could never bring him , nor his reflecter to go about to make out ; and he wayes it totally through this whole sermon . let him then but shew that he has absolute-certainty of scripture's sense , in those tenets of christian-faith , by any method his principles will allow him , and his sermon should have past for me without controul . that 's the main point , whereas all here is quite besides it . as for those words from s. irenaeus he could have quoted the very same words ( in a manner ) from a better author ( even the holy scripture ) calling the church , the pillar and ground of truth ; but that he lik't not the application of them to the church . it seems he can neglect his rule , and make no more reckoning of it than he did of the oral tradition , or preaching of the apostles , when it stands in his way , of comes cross to his purpose . § . . it has been manifested above , that his discourses from the writing of the gospels and epistles are all guilty of the same fault , and antedate our tradition ; and his inferences thence , as levell'd against our tenet , are weaker than water . he makes tradition any thing what he pleases , and will have it do every thing , tho' it was never intended for it , nor ever pretended by us it was able to do it . one while it must bring down the * decrees of councils . another while it must convey * long disputes about divers points ; and the resolution of them ; and this totidem verbis , otherwise the apostles sense might have been lost . it must secure people from being * remov'd from christ's gospel to another ; whereas no man ever held that the galatians were remov'd from christ's gospel by following even the particular tradition or preaching of that apostle ; nor that any particular men , nay churches , might not be remov'd from it even into heathenism , or iudaism , if they deserted it . he expects too , it should secure men from * danger of being deceiv'd ; whereas , supposing them once well-instructed in faith ( and 't is suppos'd to our tradition the church was so ) 't is * self-evident they can never be deceiv'd while they hold to that certain rule ; because that is to hold the same they were instructed in at first . but if all were not well instructed at first , as 't is impossible they should , then they might be deceiv'd , either by deserting tradition , or even by holding to such a tradition ; if , for want of perfect instruction in that raw and unsettled state of christianity , that which they held at first was not perfectly christ's doctrine . nay , he would have it keep even hereticks from * defection , hypocrisie , lying and deceiving : which were a rare tradition indeed , to do such kindnesses , and work such good effects upon those who had deserted it , and would not make use of it ; at least , he would have it keep people from weakness and folly ; which the common assistances of nature and grace will do , after the generality is well settled in that doctrine . for , when all the question is , what the apostles preach't , 't is a madness and folly both to believe some few men , before the universal testimony of the christian church . but he will have tradition still do all the mischiefs imaginable , and writing do all the good ; forgetting , i suppose , that there are some things in st. paul's writings , * which the vnlearned and vnstable wrest , as they do also the other scriptures , to their own destruction . all this while , what is this to the tradition we assert , which begun afterwards ? § . . from these impertinent premises , he infers as impertinent a conclusion , viz. that , * what was deliver'd in scripture contains a compleat rule of the true and genuin faith , as it was at first deliver'd to the church . now , that what 's signify'd by scripture is the same the apostles signify'd by their preaching , is plain sense , and never deny'd ; and , so he needed not have made all this clutter to prove it . but plain sense will do him no service , whose best play 't is to blunder and confound every thing ; let us see then what it is that will. his first words [ what they have therein delivered ] can mean nothing but the sense of scripture ; for that is the thing signify'd or deliver'd by the letter ; and both sides confess , that the sense of scripture is christ's faith. if then we spell his words together , they plainly amount to this , that christ's faith contains a compleat rule of the true and genuin faith , as it was deliver'd at first to the church , that is , faith it self contains a compleat rule to it's self . make sence of this who can . the best i can make of it is , that the conclusion keeps decorum with the premises ; and that he has mighty well imploy'd his labour to keep such a huge pother to infer such a worthy point . § . . i have nothing to do with his objecting some of our writers , but shall come to his * second reason , drawn from the notorious vncertainty of meer tradition ; and that never was any trial made of it but it fail'd , even when it had the greatest advantages . expect gentlemen , by those high and mighty words , he will bring most convincing arguments , to prove that the universal testimony of the church in delivering down those high points of faith is notoriously vncertain , and fail'd in every age , nay , the very first , for then it had the greatest advantages ; the christians having then fresh memories , and being then infallible , since they could not agree to approve false doctrin , as himself told us p. , . for my part i am of his mind , and never knew any other tradition have advantages comparable to what christian tradition had for transmitting the doctrine of faith ; and if he lets you know what those advantages of christian tradition were , and shews them unable to oblige the church to convey christ's doctrin down , he will gain his point : but , if he prevaricates from this necessary duty , he abuses you with fine luke-warm words to no purpose . i do assure you before hand , tho' he talks here of advantages , he has not in his whole sermon mention'd , much less ingenuously inform'd you of any one advantage christian tradition has ; but industriously conceal'd every particular that gives it force . yet , who sees not that without doing this , 't is impossible to impugn it , or deal fairly with his auditory ; for how should you judge of the comparison , without a clear sight of the things compar'd ? § . . he did very prudently , not to insist on the falling of tradition in the law of nature ; for . he must have shewn it fail'd them , and not they fail'd it by deserting it ; which could only be done by proving that had they continu'd to follow it , they could have stray'd into polytheism ; which he can never do , it being evidently impossible . . that , to make good the parallel , he must have prov'd it had as ample an original ( which gives a vast force to testifying authority ) as christian tradition had ; which is equally impossible ; for it had for its source but one single man , adam . . that there were not more powerful motives , nor greater assistances of grace to continue the christian doctrine under the law of grace , than there were under that most imperfect law of nature ; nor more exact discipline in the church of christ , than there was in that loose state : which had been hard points , and altogether impossible even to attempt with any shew of reason . he did very wisely too to wave the opinion of the millenaries , the time of easter and the communicating of infants . for he both knows that every apostolical tradition ( had this last been suppos'd such ) is not necessarily an article of faith ; as also that none of these ( nor yet their contrary ) was a point of christian doctrine preach't and settled unanimously over the world by the apostles . he made account he had a better game to play , by shewing how * tradition fail'd in delivering down the apostles creed . but he might , had he pleas'd , as well have left out that as the others ; for * none of the explainers of tradition ever held or said it was to bring down set form of words , which requir'd application of memory and repetition of them in order ; but only the sense of the first age ( which was christ's true faith ) instill'd after a connatural way by education ; and apt to be exprest in different words , according to different circumces . § . . were it granted him , that * things written ( supposing the letter could be prov'd to be still continu'd absolutely certain ) had the advantage , as to the certainty of conveyance , above things meerly committed to memory and tradition ; yet he is where he was . the point between us still sticks ; that is , whether meer words , expressing in short such sublime spiritual tenets , as are most of the chief articles of christian religion , are so clear to private judgments , nay , to all ( even the vulgar ) that are looking for faith , that they can have that perfect assurance of their true sense , as to build that never-to-be-alter'd assent , call'd faith , upon their understanding them . this is the summ of our difficulty ; this is what we most insist upon , and are perpetually pressing him to shew the security of the method he takes to give us this certainty : i do not mean the certainty of the letter ( about which he keeps such ado ) but of the sense of it in such points , if he thinks any one of them so necessary , that the generality cannot be sav'd without the knowledge of it . this is it , which most imports you to know , if you value the having such grounds for your faith , as ought in true reason to perswade you 't is true that it was taught by christ , or that you are not perhaps dociend , and in an errour all this while . but , not one word of this in the whole sermon . * he argues from god's making choice of writing , when he deliver'd the ten commandments . what means he , or how can he apply this to our question ? are the ten commandments , which are plain honest nature , of as deep and mysterious a sense , as the high points we speak of ? are they so hard to be understood , that writing is not a clear conveyer of god's sense in such matters ? does he hear a great part of the world at variance about the meaning of the ten commandments , as multitudes of hereticks have been wrangling with the church ever since christ's time , about the sense of scripture in those dogmatical points ? were the texts which contain those points as plain to all mankind as the ten commandments are , or as are generally the historical and moral parts of scripture , i should frankly declare , that scripture might in that supposition be a rule of faith , as to the points contained in it ; and that there would be no need of the church for our simply believing , but only to confirm our faith , explain it more throughly , when any part of it , imply'd in some main point , is deny'd ; apply it to our consciences by her preaching , and keep us up to the doctrin it delivers by her government and discipline . so that our controversy-preacher , who has never hit the point hitherto , doubly misses it here in his representing tradition , as held by us needful to supply the defect of clearness in moral passages , that are plain enough of themselves ; and that 't is to bring down set-forms of words , ( which is not its business ) whatever it be those words express . and this shews his mistake in his * second proof ; viz. the restoring the knowledge of the law written by a written book ; which was a way most proper for that end. whence , for the same reason , if there were any deviation from the christian doctrin , which , as contradistinguish't to that other , was writ in the living tables of the hearts of the faithful , the best way of preserving or restoring that , was by the sence writ in the heart of the church at first by the preaching of the apostles , and continu'd ever since , in the manner we have describ'd and prov'd . § . . but , the dr. is got into a track of mistaking , and he cannot get out of it . he brings for his third argument our b. saviour's advice to the iews to search the scriptures . the business was , to know whether he was the true messias ; and the prophecies relating to the messias were matters of fact , or else moral ; and therefore proportion'd to the understanding of the searchers ; and plain enough , so they apply'd but industry & diligence to find them out . are your mysteries of christian faith such ? or , must weak unelevated understandings therefore presume to penetrate the meaning of the scripture in texts of so deep a sense as those mysteries are , because the jews were exhorted to do it , in a matter within the sphere of their capacity ? again , the tradition of the iews was very strong , that a messias should come ; but that this was the person , there was no tradition at all . this was therefore either to be made known by his miracles done to attest it , or to be found out by the applying of diverse particulars to him , and by seeing they all concurr'd in him . and did ever any of us pretend , that tradition was to bring down such particulars ? if he says we did , he must shew where ! if he confesses we did not , he must confess withal , his text and discourse here is nothing to the purpose . he turns it off from the admonition of searching the scriptures to know the true messias , to the knowing whether he were a temporal prince ; whereas the tradition of his kingdom 's being purely spiritual , was neither vniversally held , taught , nor deliver'd at first by the first founders of that law , nor settled in the hearts of the synagogue , or the universality of the jews in the beginning , as christ's doctrin was by the unanimous preaching of the apostles in the hearts of such a numerous multitude as was the christian church of the first age. which being evidently so , what reason was there our saviour should refer them to such a slight , or rather no-tradition , and not to the written prophecies , in which he was foretold ? or , what consequence can be drawn hence to the prejudice of christian tradition , which , and which only , we defend ; and which ( as was fitting ) is so strongly supported , that it is impossible to find a parallel to equal or come nigh it . and unless this be done , all his arguments against it stand thus , a lesser force cannot do an effect , therefore a greater cannot . an odd piece of logick , but suitable to all the rest . § . . his fourth reason represents tradition to be meerly verbal , and not practical . that it ( alone ) is to bring down particular matters of fact , or historical passages ; nay , the speculative whimsies of the old heathen phylosophers . none of which was ever pretended ; and , so , all his discourse runs upon his old and oft-repeated errour in the true meaning of tradition . § . . the reasons he gives for the certainty of the books of scripture , we allow to a tittle ; and we add to them one , over and above , which is better than them all ; viz. the obligation and care of the church ; which , as she ever held the scriptures to contain the same doctrin which was preach't to her at first by christ's order , and that it was a most incomparable instrument for the edification of her children , the abetment of faith , the salvation of mankind , nay , an instruction to her self too in thousands of most excellent , most useful , and most enlightning passages ; so she could not but look upon her self as most highly oblig'd to preserve the letter from any material alteration ; and yet more particularly , in case any hereticks went about to corrupt it in any texts ( nay , coma's or pointings ) that concerned the main articles of christianity , which they sometimes attempted ; the doctrin of christ in her breast , could easily direct them to set the text right again , and that with absolute certainty . nor does any say , or so much as suppose any book of scripture is indeed lost , as he hints , p. . only , upon his saying , that * the scripture we have now , contains all the divine revelations ; i us'd the right of a disputant , and put him to make good what he says , and to prove he has the absolute certainty he pretended to , that no book was lost , without which he could have no such certainty those pieces of scripture we have now , did contain all the divine revelations ; which , by his grounds , denying any certainty but what might admit of deceit , i was sure he was not able to perform . § . . nor do i at all doubt of the influence of divine grace , or of the internal satisfaction which good souls , who are already faithful , ( or as st. thomas of aquin cited by him , expresses himself , have the habit of faith , by which they have a right iudgment of those things which are agreeable to that vertue ) receive concerning scripture and christ's doctrin ; or that they confirm men more than demonstration does . arguments have the nature of preliminaries to faith , or searches after it ; but the inward satisfaction that that heavenly doctrin rectifies and purifies the soul , and levels it directly towards the attainment of it's last blissful end , has the nature of a kind of experience , and , as it were , possession and enjoyment of what humane arguments , previous to faith , had been looking after , and contending for . i suppose , gentlemen , the dr. brought in this discourse to prepare your minds , by a shew of piety , to rest appay'd with any slight reason that falls short of concluding , and breed in you a prejudice against the necessity of his producing any such arguments , as place christian faith above possibility of falshood . but , he is as much out of the way here as he was in all the rest ; for , notwithstanding god's grace , and this internal satisfaction , which is proper to good souls who are believers already , the church and her pastours must be furnish'd with solid and unanswerable reasons , to satisfie perfectly those , both of the lowest and most acute capacity , who are looking after faith , that the doctrin she professes was taught by christ ; and , to evince and defend its truth , in that particular , against the most subtile adversaries ; which cannot be done , unless the reasons which we , as controvertists , bring , set it above possibility of falshood , that christ taught it . we cannot put god's grace and our internal satisfaction into syllogisms when we are disputing . nor does god intend by his grace to prejudice the true nature himself has given us , which is reason ; but to perfect and elevate it . 't is against reason , that in preliminaries to faith , which are the objects of natural reason , those who are capable to penetrate the force of reasons , should assent beyond the motive ; for , as far as it is beyond the motive , 't is without any motive ; that is , without any reason ; and , therefore ( whatever often happens through the imperfection of creatures ) such an irrational assent could never have been intended by god. whence , as it belongs to infinite goodness to give those who sincerely seek for truth , the grace to embrace it ; so it belongs to infinite wisdom to lay such means to arrive at truth , ( that is , in our case , such a rule of faith ) as both evince it 's truth to those who are capable , according to the most exact methods of true reason ; and withal , perfectly * secure those from errour who follow that rule , let them be as weak as they will. if then we are bound to embrace christian faith as a truth , and profess it to be so , it must be indeed such ; and therefore the grounds left us by god must be of that nature , as to prove or conclude it to be such : and , if dr. st. have no such grounds that what he holds is really christ's doctrin , he ought not to handle or preach controversie ; since he must necessarily disgrace and weaken christian faith , when he is to credit and establish it . nay , he ought not to pretend he has that most firm , and most strongly-supported assent , call'd faith , which depends necessarily on the certainty that it was taught by christ , but candidly yield he has opinion only in that point ; not an vnalterable belief it is true , but only a good conceit or hope that it is so , or may be so : too weak a prop to sustain it's truth , as it leans on christ or his apostles , having taught it ; or to settle the basis of all our spiritual life . § . . and now let 's apply this discourse to his ground or rule , by means of which he is to be thus assur'd , or able to assure you of the truth of those controverted points , which you hear so warmly disputed in the world ; and which it so much imports you to be satisfy'd in . 't is scripture's letter ( in texts that are thought to relate to those points ) as understood or interpreted by himself , or any other private judgment . what he has then to do , is to make out with absolute certainty , that this method of arriving at the knowledge of christ's true doctrin , as to those points , cannot be deceitful and erroneous . otherwise , 't is unavoidable , his faith , and all christian faith , no better grounded , may be false , and , by consequence , is not true. he will tell you twenty fine stories , and give you many pretty words of it's being sufficiently certain , morally certain , that it has such assurance as men accept for other matters , &c. but ask him smartly and closely , if any of these certainties or assurances are impossible to be false , and he must not , nor will deny it : for , should he say it , he must pretend he could not be deceiv'd in his understanding those texts right , which he could not do without professing infallibility in that particular . observe , i beseech you , where the stress of the whole question lyes . 't is in this , whether this ground or method of his to be assur'd of faith , is able to prove it to have been truly and indeed taught by christ , so as it was not possible it should be otherwise . by this test , if you examin the very good-grounds for the certainty of his protestant faith , which he promises you here in his preface , you will find evidently he only gives you very good words instead of very good grounds ; and that , whatever he produces , whether he quotes or argues , he will never vouch them to be so certain , but deceit and errour may possibly consist with them . he will complain , that 't is an unreasonable expectation , because the nature of the things will not bear it . and what 's this , but to tell you in other terms , that there neither is any absolute certainty of faith , nor can be any : which bids fair for atheism , unless interest satisfies the will , and by it the reason . by his speaking there of the main points in controversie between us , i perceive he is running from the whole business in hand , and seeking to shelter himself , and hide his head in a wilderness . but he shall not shift the question thus , and fall to ramble into endless disputes . himself confest ( second letter , p. . ) our question was about the general grounds of our faith , and not the particular certainty as to this or that doctrin , and i joyn'd issue with him upon the same . to run to particular points while that 's a settling , is to put the conclusions before the premises ; and , to go about to ascertain things depending intirely on a method or rule , without ascertaining that method or rule first , is to begin at the wrong end , and make the cart draw the horse . § . . i owe him yet an answer to st. austin . he alledges that father ( p. . ) whose testimony says only , that the gospels are to be look't upon as christ's own hand-writing , and that he directed the order and manner of the evangelist's writing ; which only signifies they were divinely inspir'd in both : which none denies ; nor has this any influence upon the point in hand . he could have quoted you other places out of him , if he had pleas'd , which come up to it fully ; and i shall supply his backwardness with doing it my self . quaerendi dubitatio , &c. ( * says that learned and holy father ) the doubt of enquiry ought not to exceed the bounds of catholick faith. and , because many hereticks use to draw the exposition of the divine scriptures to their own opinion , which is against the faith of the catholick disciplin ; therefore — ante tractationem hujus libri catholica fides explicanda est . before the handling this book , the catholick faith is to be explained . where dr. st's sober enquirer is curb'd and restrain'd in his licentious search of his faith in scripture , by the catholick faith , had ( it seems ) some other way ; for , were his faith to be had meerly by searching scripture for it , with what sense ought he to be restrain'd , while he was in the way to faith : to restrain one who is in the right way , is to hinder him from going right , or perhaps to put him out of his way . again , tho' those heretical opinions were both against the true sense of scripture , and against tradition too ; yet , had he held scripture the rule , he should rather have said they were against the true signification of scripture's letter , than against the faith of the catholick discipline . besides , if catholick faith was to be explain'd before they came to handle scripture , how was scripture the rule for all to come to faith , when as faith was to be had ( nay , well understood by the explanation of it ) antecedently , lest they might otherwise fall into heresie ? and , in another place , speaking of a false pointing of the letter , made by the arians , to abet their heresie , he confutes them thus ; * ( sed hoc — but this is to be refuted by the rule of faith , by which we are instructed before-hand in the equality of the trinity . had this rule of faith been held by him to be the letter of scripture , he would have had recourse to some exacter copy , correcting their faulty one ; and , so have born up still to that rule : but 't is evident he does not thus . he makes then the sense of the church or tradition the rule , both to know our faith , and also to correct the faultiness of the letter . whether this sutes better with the drs. principles or ours , is left to your selves or any man of reason to judg and determine . § . . thus comes off this famous sermon which makes such a noise , for a confutation of the traditionary doctrin . the sum of it is , . the dr. takes no notice of the main question betwixt us , which is about the absolute-certainty that our faith is truly christian or taught by christ , nor attempts to shew his is thus certain ; but preaches to you stedfastness and a well-setled resolution to continue in it , yet avoids the giving you any grounds to make you stedfast and well-setled in that resolution . . he conceals every advantage christian tradition has , or is pretended to have ; that is , he would perswade you to hate it , before you see it , and to compare it to scripture before you know what kind of thing it is ; which is yet worse , he shews you another thing for it , and through all his discourse pretends 'tis it , which is nothing at all to it , but utterly unlike it ; viz. particular traditions , both before and after that vniversal tradition ( only which we defend ) was setled . . he fixes a false date upon the beginning of the tradition we speak of , that the vast source of it , which ( with the circumstances annext ) was able to continue the current strong , and the derivation of christ's doctrin both certain and perpetual , might not be reflected on . to deform it the more , he makes it meerly verbal , as if it were nothing but the telling some dry story , by surpressing it's practicalness , in which consists it's chiefest vertue . . he hides from your consideration all the most incomparable , and most powerful motives which enforce its continuance , and oblige the church never to forsake the first deliver'd doctrin . . he never regards , even in those particular traditions , whether they fail'd the persons , or the persons fail'd them ; but supposes still the tradition was in all the fault , without attempting to shew it . . he would have you imagin the church in the first age ( consisting of pastors and people ) lost all their memory and grace too , assoon as ever the apostles were dead , lest it should be held able and willing to testify christ's doctrine to the next age , which by parity would establish it a rule for all succeeding ages to the end of the world. . he mingles known opinions , and which he holds himself not to have been universally deliver'd at first , with points which we all hold to have been first deliver'd . then , as to the matter of object of tradition , which , and only which we pretend it is to bring down with absolute certainty , and deliver clearly ( viz. the dogmatical or controverted articles of christian faith , which are practical ) he never mentions it at all with any distinction , but tumbles and confounds it with all things imaginable for which it was never pretended ; and puts upon tradition a hundred abus'd tasks as never thought of by us , so improper , & oft times impossible in themselves ; as , the deriving down the ten commandments , creeds , decrees of councils , set forms of words , an infinity of particular passages not at all practical , nay , whole epistles and gospels , schemes of doctrin taught by heathen philosophers ; messages which use to be sent by long letters ; historical narrations or actions ; and in a word , every thing he could invent but the right one ( viz. those controverted points of faith ) tho' it lay just before him : the very nature of controversy , which we are about , determining our discourses to those points , and nothing else : this is his general view of scripture and tradition , as to the way of conveying down matters of faith. he means a general view , which misrepresents and blinds your sight of it in every particular : in a word , there is much of reading , conduct and wit in his sermon ; but wholly misemploy'd to speak as handsomely as he could to no purpose , and to miss the whole point in question with a great deal of plausibility . in which , amongst his other great abilities , justly acknowledg'd to be excellent , consists his most considerable talent and dexterity . § . . so he ends his sermon with good advice to you to follow christ's heavenly doctrin in your lives and conversations . which , as he worthily presses upon you , so i shall heartily pray that god would vouchsafe you his grace to follow it . i am far from blaming his or any one's preaching the wholsome moral doctrines of christianity , and laying it home to men's consciences : but i ought not , if concern'd , to suffer , that , when he pretends to speak to your understandings , and establish you in faith , he should bubble his auditory with forty impertinent pretences , injurious to his candid adversaries and to truth , as well as to your selves ; please and delude your fancies with a great shew of his reading , and little conjectural reflexions tack't prettily together ; and , in the mean time , send you away empty of knowing any ground which may render you , or any , absolutely certain , that what you hold is indeed christ's doctrin ; that is , any ground of perfect security ; that is , cannot but be indeed his doctrin ; without being which it ought not be held true. whereas yet , 't is only this certainty which can give his or any other sermon it 's full force and energy . your servant in christ , j. s. advertisement , the d. & d. catholick letters , are to be sold by m. turner at the lamb in high-holbourn . the fifth catholick letter in reply to dr. stillingfleet's ( pretended ) answer to about the fortieth part of i. s's catholick letters , addrest to all impartial readers . by iohn sergeant . published with allowance . london , printed , and sold by matthew turner , at the lamb in high-holborn , . the preface . addrest to the most partial of dr. stillingfleet's friends . gentlemen , when a person is incomparably qualify'd above all others in any particular ; men use to look upon him as a pattern in that kind . i will not say dr st. has manifested himself to be such an exemplar in every respect that can be an ingredient of an ill controvertist . this is yet to be shewn ; and pretence without proof signifies nothing : only i may justly fear that , while you are reading my reply to his answer ( as he calls it ) to my catholick letters , you may be apt to judge that i am rather framing an idea of what human weakness maintaining an insupportably-ill cause may be obnoxious to , than giving a iust character of his performances ; and that , 't is absolutely impossible that a man of his parts should be guilty of such and so many incredible failings . i acknowledge with all due respect to him , his great endowments ; and am heartily glad , in truth 's behalf , i am engag'd with an adversary to whom no personal insufficiency can be objected . nothing could make the victory come more clear to the cause i am defending ; and the more dr st. is rais'd above the common levell of writers , the more evidently it will appear that nothing but the pure force of truth could drive a man of his abilities to such unparallel'd shifts and subterfuges , to palliate that errour the patronage of which he had so unfortunately espous'd . nor is it to be wonder'd at , that even the best wit in the world should be baffled while it maintains such a cause : for , were it some errour of an ordinary size that he defended , or were the truth which he opposes of a trivial importance , rhetorick and misus'd wit might perhaps bear it down , and gain a seeming victory over it : but when the sole point is , whether even what we all hold to have been the faith taught by christ , may for ought any man living knows , be perhaps none of his ; and so , a falshood and a lying story ; 't is not to be imagin'd that any tricks of human skill can prevail against a point of that sacred concern . it belongs to the wisdom of our good god , to settle those things most firmly , which are of the greatest weight ; and therefore the certainty we are to have that christ was indeed the author of the faith we profess , being such an incomparable good , and the basis of all our spiritual building , must be by far more unremovably establisht , and more surely plac't above a tottering contingency , than the strongest pillars of this material world ; whence , all attempts to undermine , and weaken this certainty ( which as shall be seen is the chief endeavour of dr st. ) must be proportionably weak and ruinous . to give you a map of his main performances taken from his book in short , and prov'd upon him in this reply . first , whereas 't is the principal duty of a controvertist ( especially , writing about the grounds of faith ) to justify , that is to prove faith to be true ; the dr is so far from doing , or allowing this good office to be done to faith , that he maintains the direct contrary . nay , he will not grant so much honour to any particular point of faith ( and our whole faith is made up of such particulars ) as to let it enjoy even his own kind of absolute certainty , tho' that falls short of proving any thing to be above possibility of falshood or ( which is the same ) true ; but says over and over in perfectly equivalent terms that the sense which himself , or any man ( or church either ) has of scripture in particular points , may not be the true sense of it ; that is , may not be christ's doctrin ; which if it be not , it may not be true ; and is it possible that what may not be true , can at the same time be true ; that is , is it possible that truth may not be its self . secondly , we are writing controversy , and consequently treating of faith precisely according to a particular consideration belonging to it , which is , by what way 't is with absolute certainty derivable from christ. this has been repeated and eccho'd to him over and over even to surfeit . this was the scope and occasion of the conference . this is exprest in my short discourse against his way of having certainty of christ's doctrin ; and clearly aim'd at in mr g's demonstration . nay , this has been told him fifteen years ago in errour non-plust , p. . where i in these plainest words thus stated the question . [ it being then agreed amongst us all that what christ and his apostles taught is god's word , or his will , and the means to salvation ; all that is to be done by us as to matters of faith , is to know with absolute certainty what was the first-taught doctrin , or christ's sense ; and whatever can thus assure us of that , is deservedly call'd , the rule of faith. ] yet , tho' we should trumpet this into his ears every moment , he is still deaf , and never takes notice of it , or regards it in his whole reply ; nay , he diverts from it with all the hast he can make , when our express words force him to it . to do this with the greater formality and solemnity , he entitles his book , [ a discourse concerning the nature and grounds of the certainty of faith. ] which expression is so large , that it leaves it indifferent for him , under that head , either to treat of faith as 't is in its self , viz. as 't is divine ; or of faith as 't is controverted between us ; that is of our faith as 't is ascertainable to us to be christ's true doctrin . and , that we may see this was done by design , when he comes to determine the sense of those equivocal words , he pitches upon that meaning of them which is quite beside our purpose , and nothing at all to our question : viz. upon christ's faith as 't is divine ; which is not disputed but agreed to be such ; and this , whether the faith comes to our knowledge by tradition attesting it ; or by an absolutely certain interpretation of scripture ; and the sole question is , whether the tradition of the church or the letter of scripture interpreted by any way his principles afford us , be the more certain and more clear way to give us christ's sense , or ( which is the same ) our faith. how untoward a procedure is it then , to stand quoting our school-divines against me , whenas the objects of controversy and of school-divinity are so vastly different : the one treating of faith as made known to the world at first by divine-revelation ; the other , of the way to know now what was at first divinely reveal'd , by human motives inducing men to the acceptation of it of for the same doctrin . hence , also , when he was to bring arguments which should evince , by his principles , that the faith held now is the same that was reveal'd at first , to avoid that impossible task , he falls unseasonably to alledge god's grace and invisible moral qualifications : which , tho' absolutely requisit in many regards to faith as 't is formally divine ; yet are they most improper to be alledg'd in controversy against an adversary , for a proof that what he holds is the first-taught doctrine ; since only god himself can know whether the alledger or any man else has those supernatural means or no. to put a stop once for all to this impertinent topick , and to shew how he trifles while he quotes our school-divines , i alledge first , that the plain state of the question lately given , which runs through our whole controversy , has forestall'd all he can object from them ; unless he can shew that they stated the question , and treated of faith under the same consideration , as we do in our controversy ; which i am certain he cannot instance in so much as any one of them : and in case they do not state it after the same manner we do in our controversy , with what sense can it be pretended that i contradict them , or they me , whenas we do not speak of the same point , and a contradiction must be ad idem ? secondly , our divines bring motives of credibility to prove christian faith to be divine and true ; such as are miracles , the conversion of the world , the sufferings of the martyrs , &c. very good ▪ would dr st. reply , these might prove the faith profest in those times to be true : but you have alter'd that faith since , and therefore you are to prove that the faith you profess now is the same which was of old . so that , out of the very nature of our circumstances , this is the only point between us , and the main business of our controversy about the rule of faith , or the ground that can justify its invariable conveyance downwards ; for , this being made out by us , all the rest is admitted . thirdly , hence both the protestants and we agree , that that is to be called the rule of faith * by which the knowledge of christ's doctrin is convey'd certainly down to us at the distance of so many ages from the time of its first delivery . does any of our school-divines take the words [ rule of faith ] in this sense ? not one . they content themselves with what serves for their purpose , and call that a rule of faith which barely contains faith. fourthly , our only point being to know assuredly the former faith by a certain conveyer , how must this be made out to those who are enquiring what is christ's true doctrin ? must we bid them rely on their private interpretations of scripture ? no surely ; for this is the way proper to all hereticks . must we bring them the publick interpretation of it by the church ? this might do the deed so we could manifest this by some knowledges those candidates are already possess'd of , and did admit . must we then , at the first dash , alledge the publick interpretation of the church divinely assisted ? what effect can this have upon those who do not yet hold that tenet ; and , consequently , how can this be a proper argument to convince them ? it remains then that we can only begin with their unelevated reason , by alledging the church's human-authority or tradition ( the most vast and best-qualify'd testimony to convey down a notorious matter of fact , of infinite . concern , that ever was since the world was created ) for a certain conveyer of faith from the time that those motives of credibility , proving the then ▪ faith to be divine , were on foot . and , if so , why not with the same labour , and for the same reasons , to bring it down from the very beginning of the church ? and if we must alledge it , are we not oblig'd , as disputants , to bring such arguments , to prove that authority certain , as do conclude that point ? if they do not , what are they good for in a controversy , or what signifies a proof that concludes nothing ? this is the sum of my procedure and my reasons for it in short ; which are abundantly sufficient to shew to any man of sense , that , while the doctor objects our school-divines to one in my circumstances , his hand is all the while in the wrong box , as will more at large be shewn hereafter . he might have seen cited by me in my clypeus septemplex , two writers of great eminency , viz. father fisher , the most learned controvertist of his age here in england ; and a modern author , dominicus de sancta trinitate , whose book was printed at rome it self , and appprov'd by the magister sacri palatii , who ( to omit divers others ) do abet each particular branch of my doctrin ; which renders insignificant all his pretence of my singularity , and my opposition to the catholick controvertists . but to leave off this necessary digression and proceed . as our doctor has shuffled off the whole question by taking the word [ faith ] as treated of by us , in a wrong sense , so he behaves himself as ill in every particular of the rest of his title ; viz. in his discoursing of his pretended [ certainty ] of faith , and of the [ nature ] and the [ grounds ] of it . he cannot be won to give us any account how his grounds influence the points of faith with the absolute certainty he pretended . and as for the certainty it self , ( the only word of his title that is left ) he never shews how any one article ( even though it be most fundamentall ) is absolutely secur'd from being false or heretical , by any rule , ground or way he assigns us . nor can i imagin any thing could tempt him to so strange extravagances , but the streight he was in , being put to shew his faith absolutely certain ; and his despondency ever to perform an vndertaking , which he foresaw was , by his shallow principles , impossible to be atchiev'd . and hence he was necessitated to all these crafty shifts , and wiles , and all those vnsound methods which , like so many complicated diseases , affect his languishing discourse and dying cause ; as shall be laid open in the progress of this discourse , and , particularly , in the concluding section . i shall only instance at present in two or three material ones , which , like the grain in wood , run through his whole work. for example : when any question is propounded which grows too troublesome , he never pursues that game but flushes up another , and flies at that , 'till the true point be out of sight . tell him our point is whether the high mysteries and other spiritual articles of faith be clear in scripture ; he will never answer directly , but runs to points necessary to salvation . ask him if the tenet of christ's godhead be necessary to salvation ; no direct answer can we get to that neither , tho' it be the very point we instanc't in . press him that there are no unnecessary points ; and , therefore , that all are necessary for the generality of the church , he cries alas for me ! but answers nothing . ask him what points he accounts necessary ? he is perfectly mute : 'till at length he shuffles about so , that the true question which is about a rule of faith , comes to be chang'd into a rule of manners ; and those high spiritual points which are most properly christian , and could only be known to the world by divine revelation , are thrown aside ; and moral ones put in their place , which were known to many even of the heathen writers . and this is the best sense i can pick out of a man who affects to wrap up those tenets of his , and their consequences , which he thinks would not be for his credit to discover , in mysterious reserves . the like shuffling he uses in the notion of certainty , or any other that is of concern in our present dispute ; for he is a very impartial man , and treats them all alike . ask him then , if faith be absolutely certain by his grounds ? he will not say it , but more than once hints the contrary . are the grounds of it at least absolutely certain , tho' he makes them such ill-natur'd things that ( contrary to all other grounds in the world ) they keep their absolute certainty to themselves , and will let faith have none of it ? yes ; he 'll tell you they are ; provided that by absolute certainty you will mean such a certainty as will permit those grounds may be false , and faith built upon them much more : for we are to know 't is a maxim with him that the absolute certainty he allows his grounds is possible to be false , and he allows a less degree of certainty to particular points than to his grounds , so that faith may much more easily be false then his grounds may , though they may be false too . and all this out of an antipathy i suppose , to infallibility , because the abominable papists own it ; as if mankind did not use to say they are infallibly certain of some things before the papists were born . what then is this absolute certainty ? is it meerly built on his apprehension or thinking it so ? no , but upon such an evidence as the thing is capable of . very good . is any thing in the world capable to be known ? 't is a strange paradox to deny it ; and yet if he grants it he cannot escape meeting with this bug-bear infallibility : for , if the knowledge ( as it is ) be as the thing is , and the thing be infallibly as it self is , the knowledge is infallibly as the thing is . here gentlemen you may expect he will turn it off with some scornfull irony , for he never in his life answer'd any such pressing reason any other way . but the argument will not be laught out of countenance ; and therefore if infallibility must be allow'd , he is to shew us what harm would come to faith if the previous grounds of it , as to our knowledge , were thus certain ? none at all . but then , alas ! his credit and his cause will go to wrack ; for no shew or shadow of any such argument can his superficial principles allow us : and therefore no absolute certainty will he yield to the grounds to know christ's faith , but such a one as permits all mankind may be deceiv'd in them , and much more in knowing what is his doctrin it self after we have those grounds : for absolute certainty shall not mean infallibility , let us say and prove what we will. however i 'le venture to ask him once more ; since ( as he says ) the thing , notwithstanding the absolute certainty we have of its being true , may yet be false , let us suppose ( as 't is not impossible , there being some degree of contingency in it ) that it happens to be false ; can he in that case have absolute certainty that a falshood is true ? here it goes hard with him , nor can all his old heathen philosophers , he so oft recurrs to , in the least help him out . he has but one refuge that i know of to sly to ; and that is to use some trick to shuffle away from absolute certainty , and say that he meant by it sufficient certainty , and that he 'l stick to when all his new notions fail him . for absolute certainty he was unluckily forc't upon by mr g. tho' he had no acquaintance with it , or friendship for it ; but his inclination and heart was for sufficient certainty . and good reason , for in the sanctuary of that common word he 's as safe as in an enchanted castle . those scurvy particularizing expressions are tell-tales , and by their lavishness are apt to discover sense or nonsense ; but this keeps aloof , and by signifying nothing at all determinately , is past the reach of any confute . but if you tell him 't is a relative word , and put him upon proving that his possibly-false certainty is sufficient to conclude it to be true , that any point of his faith is the same that our divine master taught the world , he 'l no more hear or mind you than he did me when i alledg'd that a rule and ground were relative words too ; and , therefore , must communicate their certainty to all the particular points they relate to . and , if you continue to press him hard with such cramp-questions , he 'l tell you he 's not at leasure , having his foot in the stirrup to take a long iourney as far as trent : so being bankrupt of reason , he withdraws his effects thence to trade more fortunately ( as he hopes ) in citations ; and finding himself beaten at tradition he gets letters of reprizall from his new logick to revenge himself on us in combating the tridentin council ; to which he will receive an answer when he first shews us that he stood firm in his own principles at home , ere he took such a leap beyond sea ; and satisfies the world how it is possible that a man who confesses he has no absolute certainty of christian faith , can be sufficiently qualify'd either to prove any tenet of his own , or disprove any tenet of others to be truly christian. in a word , his chief art is to cloak his arts , and he is a great master at it . his aim is to make his discourses run plausibly , whatever it costs his credit : which he hopes is so great now with the inferiour clergy , that , let him be as prodigall of it as he will , it can never be exhausted . the telling of his tale smoothly will take much with those readers who dwell in the middle story : but strip his discourse of all those needfull ornaments and assistances , and 't is plain impertinent nonsense in cuerpo . for , not any thing like a solid ground is found in his whole book : the manufacture and contrivance of it is all in all . it may perhaps be thought by some that i am too downright with him in divers of my expressions ; but i desire them to consider that i do not use him half so rudely as some of the church of england have done ; and besides , that in doing that little i did , i do but write after his own copy ; and fall very short too of imitating him , as appears by his angry viper , venomous froth , gall , spleen , folly , malice , &c. his faults are great , and many ; and must i not name them when i am oblig'd to lay them open ? if i must , the very names we give to great faults will be harsh words , let me do what i can . yet i have moderated them as much as the sense of what i ow'd to christian faith would give me leave . besides as my genius leads me to carry it friendly with unpretended honesty tho' erring ; so it inclines me to show less respect to a man , who as i see plainly by a constant experience , has none at all for truth , but practices and pursues all over study'd insincerity . i have one request , or rather a fair offer to make the dr. which is , that , since it is so mortifying to a man who , ( as appears by all his former writings ) aims to reduce truth to evidence and principles , to be still task't in laying open such multitudes of his shifts and prevarications ▪ ( for i do think in my conscience i have not either in this preface , or my following book even hinted a quarter of them ) he would condescend that we may each of us chuse two worthy gentlemen ; who , leaving out the question of right , may examin only matter of fact , viz. which of us uses indirect tricks and stratagems to avoid the force of truth , and which of us candidly pursues it ; and let them after a mutuall protestation upon their honours , that they will pass an impartial verdict , give under their hands the particulars in which each of us have notoriously fail'd or falter'd : i mean that such faults , whether of commission or omission , should be noted as may appear to be wilfully disingenuous or affectedly insincere , and not meerly humane oversights . this fair and equal offer , gentlemen , will exceedingly conduce to your and all our readers satisfaction ; and dr st's accepting it is the only way to do right to his credit , which stands impeacht of using such unworthy methods : and your pressing him to it , will be both a iustification of your friendship and esteem for him , and be also received as a very great favour by your friend and servant in christ , j. s. errata . page . r. unconsonantly . p. . l. . nor did . p. . l. . of the approvers . p. . l. . can be competent . p. . l. . thence embrace . p. . l. . c●rinthians . p. . l. . disparate . p. . l. . may as much . p. . l. . them not to . p. . l. . . is got . p. . l. . not at all . p. . l. . so plain and easy . p. . l. . recurr to . ibid l. ult . censures . p. . l. ● . any decree . p. ● . l. . . may seem . p. . l. . following it , then . p. . l. . argument good . p. . l. . stand yet in . p. . l. . shewing it . p. . l. . of my words . p. . ( in the margent ) see above . p. . introduction . . in his preamble dr. st. according to his usual way of confuting , quarrels every word he meets with , and gives every circumstance an invidious turn . this looks brisk ; but how weak and flat he is in his arguments shall be seen hereafter . in the mean time the dimmest eye may discern how impertinent this is to our dispute , and to the certainty of his grounds of faith , nay to his own title-page . i am sorry to see him so much out of humour , as to run against , and strike at every thing near him , tho' it lay not in his way . but sinking men , when their case is desperate , must catch at straws having no firmer support at hand to keep them from drowning . first , he wonders why mr. g. did not defend his own cause himself . he was at that very time call'd upon to attend his majesties service ; and it was a duty owing to truth and our sovereign , as well as charity and friendship to him , that some body should step in to supply for him . ly , why must j. s. be the man ? because it was desir'd of him ; and , he was besides prest to it by many judicious persons ; as one who had , in their opinion , and by the dr's own tacit confession by his silence for years , unanswerably overthrown his principles in error non-plust ; and , besides , he was injur'd , provok'd , and in a manner challeng'd by him in his second letter , by his quoting and abetting haeresis blacloana , which was writ designedly against him ; and by pretending the way of controversy he follow'd , was pelagainism . now it belong'd properly to i. s. to clear this by his own pen ; and ( whatever the dr's intention was ) i am to thank him he has put a force upon me to vindicate my self in english , which i have done in * two latin treatises above ten years ago , to the satisfaction of my judges and superiors , and the farther illustration and abetment of what i had written in my former books . ly , he quarrels the titles of my catholick letters , and that no one church of the christian world ever own'd it . and does he in his great learning think the church is to own , or prescribe every one their particular methods of handling controversy ? all she is to do is to deliver to us christ's doctrine ; and then leave it to the learning of her controvertists to take such methods to defend it as best sutes with their circumstances , and the exigencies of the persons they are to treat with . are all the * principles dr. st. laid ? is all his discourse at the conference with mr. g ? is his avow'd position , that every sober enquirer may without the churches help find out all necessary points of faith , own'd by any one catholick church ? i know not what that great conventicle of geneva may do , or what the new one that is now erecting here by the * triumvirate of the church of england's reformers , mentioned in the scurrilous reply to the bishop of oxford , may do in time , when they haue brought about their projects ; but i am confident he shall never find any one catholick church that ever own'd diverse of his principles and that position . ly , but why did i not call those letters [ roman-catholick ] but [ catholick . ] he tells the reader with much assuredness i durst not do so , because i had not forgotten how hardly i had lately escaped censure at rome . now , another man whose reason was free and undisturb'd , would think i should rather have done this , in gratitude to their allowing and accepting my defence upon such honourable terms as a kind admonition , that mindfull of the apostles words , [ i am a debtor both to the greeks and to the barbarians , both to the wise and to the unwise , ] i would explain my self as to some passages , which were * somewhat obscure from the * ambiguity of a word . my true reason , if he will needs have it , was , because dr. st's private-spirited rule was common to all hereticks ; and the rule i defended was quite opposite to it , and therefore catholick ; and this , even in the sense of many eminent protestants , who pretend to universal tradition as the rule , to ascertain their interpretations of scripture ; to whom the name of [ roman ] is not so agreeable . . the dr. will still be leaving the road-way of the question , tho' ( which i am sorry to see ) he runs himself into the bryars most wofully . so he tells the reader i ought to have let him alone , and not have writ against him , because i have done next to nothing for my self , and seem to have forgotten the answer to my sure-footing , meaning dr. tillotson's rule of faith. yes , quite forgotten it without doubt ! about two months after that answer came out , i publish'd my letter of thanks . in which i laid open how he had mistaken still the main point in controversy ; how he had willfully perverted my sense all along , and falsify'd my words in many places ; nay , inserted some of his own , and then impugn'd what himself had disingenuously added ; i defended my testimonies , and reply'd to the most concerning passages . then , observing that his whole answer proceeded on a false ground , viz. that there was no rule of faith but what left it under the scandalous ignominy of being perhaps false , that is , indeed no rule at all ; therefore to stubb-up his shallow-rooted work from its foundations , i writ another treatise [ faith uindicated ] in which i demonstrated from many heads that * the motives as laid in second causes by gods providence to light mankind in their way to faith , or the ( rule of faith , ( and consequently faith it self , in what it depends on that rule , that is , as to us , ) must be impossible to be false ; and * apply'd it home against dr st. and dr. tillotson at the end of that treatise ; and thence shew'd that his book could have no just claim to any farther answer , and that the branches must necessarily be held wither'd and sapless when the root was once shown to be rotten . nor content with this , i follow'd on my blow and penn'd a short discourse , entitled the method to arrive at satisfaction in religion ; comprizing , in short , the strength of sure footing ; and reduc't each branch of it to self-evident propositions , which force humane nature to assent to their verity . farther it was not possible to go . yet all this , my candid adversaries , who must not acknowledge it for fear of giving under their hands they owe a debt they can never pay , slubber over with assuring their readers , i have done next to nothing in my own defence . it seems that to talk triflingly is with them to do all ; and principles and clearest evidences , are either nothing at all , or next to it . . what reply made dr. tillotson ? why , he had a mind to print his sermons ; and , knowing his auditory were his best-inclin'd friends , in a preface ( forsooth ) to them , he gives a slight touch at each of those treatises . he endeavours to clear himself of two of his many insincerities , and ( oh wonderfull ! ) with about a dozen iests quite confutes three books . i would not let him rest so , nor enjoy even this empty vapour ; but gave a full and distinct reply to his preface in reason against raillery . i instructed his shallow logick , utterly unacquainted with the first principles of our vnderstanding , with which nature imbues even the rudest . i prov'd against him evidently those few of his many faults of which he had labour'd to purge himself . i laid open the folly and weakness of his first principle ; and accus'd him severely of making both christian faith and the tenet of a deity uncertain ; and this by vertue of that very first principle of his : and , out of my zeal for such dear concerns , i charg'd home upon him those two shamefull tenets by many arguments . since which time he has not reply'd a word , but has sate very contentedly under that heaviest scandal full fifteen years ; and now he stands indebted to me for an answer to all those treatises . and i have been so civil a creditor as not once to call upon him severely for such considerable arrears , till dr. st. would needs have me to be his debtor , and so oblig'd me to make up the accounts between us . now , to have done all this , is , if a man of dr. st's sincerity may be trusted , to do next to nothing , and not to have defended my self . . but since he will have it so , let 's see what dr. st. himself , who objects this , has done to defend himself . he undertook to write principles for his protestant religion . i shew'd in * errour nonplust he had not laid one for that particular end . i manifested that he was guilty of the most weak piece of illogical procedure that ever mortal man stumbled upon ; by making almost all his conclusions to be self-evident and beyond needing any proof ; and his principles which should prove them , and so ought to be clearer than they , obscure or false . * i shew'd the grounds of his discourse to be plain contradictions and some of his pretended principles to lead directly to * phanaticism . and yet he has quietly endur'd his doctrine , concerning the grounds of his faith to be stigmatiz'd for erroneous , and himself declar'd nonplust ; nay he has had the phlegm to see himself expos'd in capital letters in the title-page of that book for a man of no principles ; and yet has born it with invincible and heroical patience full fifteen years : which yet i had not so particularly insisted on at this time , had he not so utterly forgot himself , as to charge me to have done next to nothing in my own defence , when i had so manifestly baffled and put to silence , ( those who have most reason to pardon my glorying ) dr. tillotson and himself . he 'll pretend i owe him an answer to an appendix of his : the main of which is answer'd in faith vindicated , where its grounds are subverted ; and , if any thing , besides the raillery , remains unspoken to in error nonplust , when he pays me my hundred pound , i will reckon with him for his brass shilling . so much difference in just value principles ought to have above a loose discourse made up of meer misrepresentations and drollery . in the mean time , it were not amiss to give the reader an instance how he quite misses the bus'ness we are about , in that appendix ; which , i conceive , is the most solid way of confuting the whole . * [ if mr. s. ( says he ) would have undertaken to have told us who they were that first peopled america , and from what place they came , by the tradition of the present inhabitants ; and what famous actions had been done there in former ages ; we might have thought indeed , that sole tradition had been a very safe way to convey matters of fact from one age to another . ] by which we see he both forgets that the tradition we speak of is practical , and waves all the obligations and motives to continue the memory of christs doctrine ; which are the greatest god himself could impose , or man's nature is capable of . he should have shewn us that those inhabitants of america , had some constant and obligatory practices and solemnities , commemorating their coming from another nation , or their former great actions ( of the same kind the children of israel had of their deliverance out of egypt ) and then he might draw thence some show of an objection . and yet , even then , it would fall short of a parallel to the force of christian tradition ; unless the matters to be convey'd were of equal concern , and the obligations to propagate them , equally forcible and binding . i shall propose to him an instance of the force of our tradition , and than ask his judgment of it . suppose the anniversary of the powder-plot should be kept on foot , by ringing of bells , bonefires , squibbs , and spitefull preaching against all catholicks indifferently , and their very religion it self , as guilty of that villanous treason ; i would know of him whether the memory of it , tho' kept alive by this practical solemnity but once a year , would not be perpetuated for thousands of generations , or how it should ever be forgot ? if ( as i am sure he must ) he grants it ; he must grant withall that the tradition of christ's doctrine , which had a source incomparably larger , and was of the highest concern to every particular person not to desert it , but to hold to it , practice & live according to it daily , & propagate it to others , must be in a manner infinitely stronger . for , sure , he will not say that the hatred against the papists , which , i fear , is the main motive to continue the other , is a more powerfull cause to effect this , than all the motives laid by god , and the care of the salvation of themselves and their posterity was for the body of the church to perpetuate a doctrine that came from heaven . in a word , this one instance is enough to shew evidently that he either grossly mistakes , or wilfully perverts in that appendix the whole subject about which we are there discoursing . and is such a slight piece , or such a man worth answering , were it not for the repute he has got , not for writing for the church of england , but for his hatred and scribbling against the papists ? since this one errour is so fundamentall that it must needs influence all that discourse of his as far as 't is serious , or pretends to solidity ; and , so , leaves nothing to be replied to but wilely shuffles and aiery trifles , which are frivolous in themselves , and ( in his writings ) endless . sect . i. the author of the catholique letters clear'd from dr. st.'s borrow'd calumnies . . having behav'd himself thus unfortunately to himself and his friends ever since he came upon the stage , dr. st. comes to settle his method , which he says , he thinks is most natural and effectual to proceed in , in handling the main subject of our debate about the nature and grounds of the certainty of faith. it consists of four heads : and i shall follow my leader , he being such a master of method , and take them as they lie . the first is , to shew how unfit j. s. is of all men to undertake this cause , who contradicts himself as occasion serves . certainly , this man has a method as well as a logick peculiar to himself . does it follow so naturally that faith needs no higher grounds of certainty , because j. s. writes unconstantly ? or , does he prove so effectually he has shewn his grounds do allow faith , as 't is controverted between us , the certainty due to it's nature , because i write weakly . but , the truth is , his method is to avoid all method ; and to wriggle in twenty impertinent and invidious things , to make a shew of having said a great deal , tho' to no purpose : and to raise as much dust as he can , that he may run away from the business we are about , and hide himself in the mist. but is he sure that i. s. contradicts himself ? impartial men will doubt it , when they shall know , that both those few pretended contradictions he has borrow'd out of lominus and many more were objected and earnestly press'd against me in a far-distant tribunal ; where my self was unknown , and had few or rather no friends , but what my cause & defences gave me : that they were discust by those strictest judges and compar'd with my answers , and yet not so much as the least check given me , or any correction of my books , even in the least tittle , was order'd ; though this be a thing not unusual in such cases : that the business already transiit in rem judicatam ; and that the satisfaction i gave then to superiours , who could have no imaginable reason to be favourable to me , to the prejudice of catholick doctrine , is an abundant clearing of the soundness of my writings , and the sincerity of my defences . it would , i say , be enough to do this , and then leave the doctor 's malice to the censure of all ingenuous persons , for objecting anew things of which i was about eleven years ago , so authentiquely acquitted . but alas ! his method , which oblig'd him to speak to the true point as little as he could for shame , and to fill up an empty figure of an answer with as many impertinencies as he could well hook in , led him so directly to it , that he could not for his heart avoid it . should he object murther or any other heinous crime to a pretended malefactor , already clear'd of it by his proper judges and the court , every honest man would admire at his folly ; but all 's meritorious with his party against the papists . tho' , i say , this be sufficient for my vindication ; yet because those * defences of mine were in latin , and the clearing this point conduces very much to the shortening and illustrating my future answer , i shall repeat here some few particulars of many which are found there at large . and first , i shall put some notes to give a clear light of this business . next i shall show his shallowness and insincerity in what he objects . thirdly , i will put down the most authentick approbations of my books by the testimony of learned men of all sorts , and beyond all exception ; and then reflect on his imprudence in making such an objection . . for the first , i lay these notes . . that school-divines discourse of faith under another notion or consideration than controvertists do . the former treat of it as 't is a theological virtue , and the material objects of it , as reveal'd by a testimony formally divine : and they prove it to be such by alledging the miracles done to attest it ; the wonderfull conversion of the world by it , and the admirable effects issuing from it ; as the sanctity of it's professors that live up to it , the heroick sufferings of martyrs , &c. and , because 't is a supernatural virtue , and , so , depends on god's supernatural influence as much as natural effects do on his power as author of nature ; hence , they consider it as introduc't by supernatural dispositions inclining men to it , and god's heavenly grace making them embrace it and adhere to it constantly . on the other side , controvertists , particularly we in our modern controversies , being to argue against those who admit whatever was taught by christ to be divine , cannot possibly have the least occasion to treat of it as 't is such , or use any of the former arguments that are apt to prove it such ; but accommodate our discourses precisely to make out what those men deny ; that is , the grounds by which we come to know assuredly that these or those points were taught by christ. much less do we consider faith as it depends on the workings of god's holy spirit , illuminating interiourly the souls of the faithfull , and fixing them in their faith ; these being invisible and so impossible to be brought into arguments , or produc't against an adversary in our controversial disputes . . that 't is evident that in all my books i am writing controversies ; and , consequently , writing of faith precisely as 't is controverted between me and my opposers : which manifestly evinces that i treat of it under none of those considerations school-divines do ; in regard none of my adversaries , ( at least professedly ) deny it to be divine , or that god's grace is requisite to it . nor can any man shew so much as one argument in all my books that looks that way . . that , since 't is manifest beyond all cavill that we are writing controversy , and consequently treating of faith precisely as 't is controverted ; and there are but two points that can be controverted in relation to the evincing or defending the truth of christian faith : the one , that what christ taught was divine ; the other , that christ taught what we now believe ; the former of which being granted by all the deserters of the church , and therefore cannot possibly need to be prov'd by me , or any in my circumstances ; it follows evidently that the later point is only that which can be debated between me and my adversaries ; that is , we are only to treat of faith as it stands under that abstraction or consideration ; that is , as it stands under some certain rule , securing us that it was taught by christ ; it being agreed on all hands , that , if he taught it , it is divine . . that tho' this and no other can with any sense be our task , yet 't is tedious to stand repeating at every turn this abstracted acception of faith , as 't is found or treated in our controversies , or reiterating still this reduplication [ as taught by christ ; ] but 't is enough to have exprest it at first in prefaces , and the state of the question , and afterwards upon occasion in many signal passages , which i did very punctually , as appears by my * defences , where i instanc't in sixty three several places : i might say , i did it in whole books , where i spoke in short , as is seen in my * method ; in which very small treatise 't is inculcated above twenty times . whence , where-ever i use the single word [ faith ] it must necessarily mean faith as controverted , or , according to what is controverted between us . such a sollicitous repetition would argue a distrust in me , that my readers wanted common sense ; who could not reflect on what was in hand , or keep a heedfull eye upon what was at first , and once for all declar'd and signally exprest in those remarkable places . lastly , that my treating of what motives or rule christian faith must have in it self , or in its own nature to make good its truth , ( which is essential to it ) as i did particularly in faith vindicated , does not exceed the bounds of controversy , or treat of faith as 't is a theological virtue , or in any consideration relating to it as such : for i still express my self over and over in the introduction to speak of its rule , or of faith , as proveable by its rule ; and tho' i do not there apply it against any adversary , yet in the inferences at the end i do this against dr. tillotson and himself , without any reply for these fifteen years : nor , have they any possible way to come off , but either , by answering faith vindicated , and shewing there needs no absolutely certain rule to secure us of our having christian faith ; or , by shewing that they have some rule absolutely securing those from error who rely on it . the same introduction , and the same answer serves to show how moral certainty of the infallibility of this rule is , and how it is not sufficient . for i declare my self * there to speak of the nature of those motives ( or rule ) in themselves and as laid in second causes by gods providence to light mankind in their way to faith ; to which the dimness of eye-sight , neglect to look at all , or looking the wrong way , even in many particular men , is extrinsical and contingent . moral evidence then of the rule of faith's certainty , nay , even less , may serve many particular men ; for they are still secur'd from errour , by adhering to what such a rule delivers , tho' they penetrate not the grounds of its certainty ; with which it well consists that that rule as laid by god to light or satisfy all mankind , who are in their way to faith , must be in it self more than morally certain , or must be impossible to be false ; otherwise it could not perfectly satisfy acute schollars that what it abets is true ; nor enable pastors and learned men to defend the truth of faith as far as it depends on that rule ; nor secure any man , learned or unlearned , from erring in faith ; whereas , by being thus absolutely certain , it secures every man , tho' never so weak , from errour while he follows it , and preserves inviolable the truth of faith it self . . this last note fully answers his first pretended contradiction , that my chief end in that treatise ( viz. faith vindicated ) was to settle christian faith , and yet that i speak not of faith in it self , but as it it controverted . for i no where meddle with faith in it self , or as it is a theological virtue as school-divines do , but meerly in order to my opposers . with which may well consist , that i may write a book to settle christian faith by shewing it must have a certain rule , before i apply it against my adversaries , by shewing they have no such rule , and so no certainty of their faith ; as i did against himself and dr. t. at the end of that book , and do peremptorily challenge them to clear themselves of those inferences , and prove themselves to be holders of christs doctrine or christians . an instance will shew how weak this cavil is . a scrivener makes a pen ; and his primary intention , considering him , as he is doing that action , is that the pen should be a good one ; and his writing taking him precisely as a pen-maker was secondary and occasional . and yet writing was for all that his primary intention as he was a scrivener . thus it past with me . my main , primary , and ( if he will ) precise end in that treatise was to settle christian faith , by demonstrating it was to have a sure foundation : and in this was terminated the particular design of that book . now , the doing this was apt to exclude all pretenders to christianity , who had no such grounds ; but i did not this , till i had ended the treatise , nor stood applying my discourses , or striking my opposer just then with the weapon i was but a making . which yet hinders not but the primary end of writing that whole treatise was in order to my opposers , tho' a little more remotely ; and this is so evident by my inferences at the end , that none but a caviller , enrag'd that he could not answer them , would have made such an objection . . hence his second , which equivocates in the word [ objects ] is frivolous . for i no where treat of the objects or mysteries of faith in themselves , or say the connexion of their terms must be evident ; but only that the certainty of the humane authority of the church , which i make our rule , to know they were taught by christ , must be prov'd from the objects or things without us , viz. the nature of mankind , and the nature of the motives laid to perpetuate christs doctrine . and i wonder at his insincerity to alledge this : when i had particularly forestall'd it in my introduction ( p. . ) and declar'd there once for all , that in the following treatise i only spoke of the motives to light mankind in their way to faith ; does he think the mysteries of faith are the way to faith ? or can he pretend that the state of the question , exprest so carefully before-hand in a preface to signify my meaning throughout the whole treatise following , is totally to be set aside and neglected ; and that only single words pickt out , where for brevity's sake i did not constantly repeat it , are to give my true sense ? what impertinent brabbling is this ? again , p. . . i no less punctually declare that i * only treat of the objects or points of faith , as their truth depends on those motives or rule of faith. yet all will not do to a man bent upon cavill . . my last note , towards the end , let 's him see clearly when , to whom , and how , infallible assent is requisite and not requisite . and i had forestall'd this too before in an elaborate discourse from p. . to p. . in error nonplust ; where i shew'd that since faith must be true , and not possible to be a lye , therefore all who have true faith must be out of capacity of being in an error , or must be in some manner infallible . that it was enough simply to have faith , that they be materially infallible , or not capable of being in an error , by relying on a ground that cannot deceive them ( such as is the testimony of gods church ) tho' they see not how it must be so . nay , that this is absolutely sufficient for * all who are coming to faith ; provided they do not happen to doubt that their reasons for the churches infallibility are inconclusive ; and , so , be apt to remain unsatisfy'd ; or , are not bound to maintain the truth of faith against opposers ; in which case they are to be able to see and prove the conclusiveness of their grounds from some certain principle ; which i call there to be formally infallible . this and much more is laid out there at large ; which prevents most of his objections here . but no notice takes the good dr. of it . it was , it seems , too great a mortification to him , to peruse a book , which he was highly concern'd to answer , and knew he could not . . his fourth contradiction is solv'd in three lines . i treated of the humane authority of the church ( the rule of faith ) which was extrinsical to faith as 't is a theological virtue or divine . yet it being an extrinsical argument as all testimony is , i therefore went about to prove it's force from intrinsical mediums , fetcht from the natures of the things ; viz. man's nature , and the nature of the motives . nor can the certainty of witnessing authority be prov'd otherwise . . his fifth is clear'd by my first four notes ; which shew that i spoke of faith , which was by the confession of both parties divine and supernatural , and for that reason called so by me ; but did not treat of it as thus qualified , or go about to prove it divine ; but prov'd it's truth meerly as it depended on humane faith previous to it ; and so , did only formally treat of that humane faith it self , on which the knowledge of divine faith leans , and by which those coming to divine faith are rais'd up to it . yet what hideous outcries the dr. makes here , that by my doctrine we are to seek for the certainty of faith formally divine ; that i make divine and supernatural faith derive it's certainty from natural infallibility , &c. tho' he knows as well as that he lives that we make faith as formally divine derive it's certainty from the divine authority testify'd to us by miracles ; that this establishment of divine faith by supernatural means is presuppos'd to our question and granted by both sides ; and that our only point is how we may know certainly what was this divine faith thus ascertain'd at first . whoever reads third catholick letter . p. . . will admire with what face he could object these falshoods , or counterfeit an ignorance of what has been so often and so clearly told him ; and which he had seen so particularly answer'd in my defences : but this is his usual sincerity . 't is pretty to observe into what a monstrous piece of nonsense our dr. has fall'n here : and how because i argue from supernatural faith , he thinks i am arguing for it or proving it . whereas common sense tells every man who has not laid it aside , that he who argues from another thing , supposes that other thing , and , so cannot possibly , while he does so , go about to prove it , or treat of it . but it seems for and from are the same with his great reason , and not possible to be distinguisht . he might have seen other * arguments drawn from the supernaturality of faith , to prove that the rule which is to light intelligent men , who are unbelievers , to faith , must be more then morally certain . but he thought best to chuse the worst ; and , while he objected that too , mistook [ from ] for [ for ; ] that is , the premisses for the conclusion , and the cart for the horse . . his sixth exception , if pertinent , amounts to this . i.s. did not prove any point divine and supernatural , therefore dr. st. needs prove no point of faith he holds to be truly deriv'd from christ : a fair riddance of his whole task ! for the rest ; we do not desire him to prove by his rule one determinate point more than another ; only , since he talks of his grounds , which cannot be such unless they derive their solid virtue of supporting to what 's built on them , we instance now and then in some main and most necessary articles ; of which , if he can give us no account how they come to be absolutely ascertain'd by his ground or rule , he can give it of none . each point of faith is of a determinate sense ; we shew that tradition gives and ascertains to us this determinate sense ; and we shew why it must do so , and how it does so , & this with absolute certainty . let him shew his rule has the power to do this , & then pretend we are on equal ground . but alas ! he must not say this who is all for moral certainty , and fancies nothing above it . for he cannot say by such grounds any point [ is ] or [ is true ] while it may be false that they were taught by christ ; and if he says they [ are or were taught by christ , ] while they [ may not be so ] he in plain terms affirms the same thing may at once be and not be . for thither the doctrine of faith's possible falshood must be reduc't at last , and the greatest of contradictions will be found to be his first principle . . his th exception is answer'd in my last note ; which shews that the ground upon which the truth of faith depends must be more than morally certain ; tho' every believer needs not penetrate the force of those grounds , or have even so much as moral certainty of their conclusiveness . but , what means he when he objects my saying , that , true faith , by reason of its immoveable grounds can bear an asserting the impossibility of it's falshood ? can this man do himself a greater prejudice , than by thus confessing , that he holds not christian faith , absolutely speaking , true ? or can he lay a greater scandal on christian faith it self , than to quarrel at a position that can give him no displeasure , but by asserting it's perfect truth ? if this do not like his new-fashion'd christian principles , i suppose he will own the contrary position , and affirm that true faith , by reason of it's moveable ( or uncertain ) grounds , cannot bear an asserting the absolute impossibility of it's falshood ; and this is in plain terms to assert , that absolutely speaking , true faith may all be false : which is both unchristian , and strong nonsense to boot . he should have preach't this to his auditory at guildhall ; and then he should have seen how every honest hearer , would have abhorr'd his doctrine , have lookt upon him as scarce half a christian , and on such a faith as absurd , praeternatural , and irrational , as well as i did . . these are the greatest contradictions the dr. could pick even out of an adversaries book ; concerning which he keeps such a mighty noise , blusters and triumphs . he tells the reader , i affirm that moral certainty destroys the essence of faith. and i affirm it does , taking faith without some absolutely certain principle , as demonstration is , to ground it on . for faith is essentially true ; and it cannot be true to those who see that , notwithstanding it's grounds which are to prove it christ's doctrine , it may yet be none of his doctrine . again , he says i make moral certainty sufficient and insufficient for faith. distinguish , good doctor ; 't is not sufficient for the ground of faith as we treat of it ; for , if there may be deceit in that ground , the truth of faith as to us , sinks : * and yet moral certainty , and even less , of the force of that ground is sufficient to many , nay * all , so they adhere to a ground that is really infallible , and salvation is attainable by those persons . oh , but salvation is to be had by such a faith no better grounded ; and that 's the main business . what ? if for want of a firm ground , faith hap to be false ? who ever said it ? or that , in case any point embrac't upon such a ground happen to be vntrue , it could be a point of faith , or that any man could be sav'd by vertue of a heretical tenet , or a pernicious falshood ? yet , for want of dr. st's understanding plain sense , and his applying my words to a wrong subject , i must forfeit my sincerity and moral honesty ; whereas himself forfeits both by confounding every thing which i had so * carefully distinguisht . there is not a tittle objected by himself or lominus , but i distinctly and clearly answer'd in my clypeus septemplex and vindiciae , to the satisfaction of all my superiours and judges . yet this man of moral honesty , has the ingenuity to object them afresh , without taking notice of my answers , or letting the reader so much as know any such satisfactory answers , or any answer at all , had been already given . . as for the three propositions pickt out of my books apart from the context , and which , as taken in the precise words in which they were exhibited , were censur'd : i desire the reader to reflect , that these words [ there is no god ] tho' found in the holy scripture it self , yet as separated from the words adjoyning , and exprest in those precise terms , are perfect atheism , and deserve the highest censure ; and yet the same words as they lie in the sacred book it self with these foregoing words [ the fool hath said in his heart ] joyn'd with them , the direct contrary is signify'd by that place . this was my very case . the words or passages taken alone , without the prefaces , declaring the sole intent of the author , without the state of the question , and other paragraphs ( or words in the same paragraph ) giving light , by the tenour of the discourse , to my true meaning , bore a shew as if i had affirm'd that it was requisite to faith to demonstrate the mysteries of faith , and among them the supernatural infallibility of the church , which is a point of faith. especially since there was inserted by the exhibiter a parenthesis in the middle of the second proposition , [ he speaks of propositions of faith ] whereas there was not a word of any such thing , but about fifteen times the contrary , in the self-same paragraph : viz. that i spoke of motives , premisses , and grounds of faith. now the censurers knew not that those propositions were in any book , or had any antecedents or consequents ( as they * publickly declar'd , and i have it under their hands ) and , consequently , censur'd them ; as my self should have done , had i been in their circumstances , and circumvented as they were . as soon as i saw the censure , i offer'd voluntarily to subscribe to it ; knowing that those propositions thus singled out , were no more my doctrine than [ there is no god ] was the sense of the sacred writer ; nay * quite contrary to it . the censurers declar'd they were surpriz'd , and * complain'd they were by indirect wiles impos'd upon . so at the arch-bishop of paris his command i writ my vindiciae , to manifest the true sense of those passages as they lay in my books ; which i shew'd very clearly and particularly to be , that i only spoke of faith as standing under a rule ascertaining it's descent from christ. my books being in english , it was order'd that some persons of great learning and repute who understood english should examine and testify , whether , taking those propositions as they lay in my books , the orthodox sense i assign'd to them , were indeed my genuine meaning in those places ; my adversary too * allow'd of them to attest it ; for indeed their known probity and learning was such that it was impossible to except against them ; and that venerable and pious personage , abbot montagu , to whom they were known , it being requir'd , gave testimony to both those qualifications in them . they all unanimously attested by their subscriptions , that the orthodox sense i assign'd was indeed the true meaning of those places ; and that the sense condemn'd was not in those books , but the direct contrary ; whence follows that when i subscrib'd the censure , i subscrib'd only to what had ever been my own doctrine . those reverend and judicious persons , were mr francis gage , dr. of sorbon ; mr thomas godden , dr. of divinity ; mr robert barclay , principal of the scotch colledge in paris ; mr bonaventure giffard , and mr iohn betham , then batchelours of divinity in sorbon , both of them since , doctors of the same faculty , and the former of them now bishop of madaura ; mr edward cary , mr edward lutton , and mr g. k. the arch-bishop of paris , being perfectly satisfy'd , hoping it might end future disputes , desired me to subscribe to the censure : i refus'd at first , alledging that such a subscription might be improv'd into a pretence that i had retracted . he replied , * uteris itaque quâ subscriptionis formulâ tibi placuerit ; make use therefore of what form of subscription you please . i replied , then i will declare that i do subscribe , not retracting my doctrine but persisting in it ; which he allow'd ; and i did it in the self-same terms ; adding , that i persisted in it as being free from censure , and approv'd by very eminent personages . which done , the censurers were order'd nay commanded to make me satisfaction by an instrument sign'd by them both ; declaring that no proposition in any book of mine was toucht by their censure . could there be a greater and more authentick clearing my books and doctrine from being censur'd than that was ; or , might not dr st. by parity of reason as well have pretended that the scripture teaches atheism , or that king david deserv'd to be censur'd , for saying there is no god , as that any proposition , as found in my books , was there censur'd or declar'd heretical . . and now to lay open some of the doctor 's falshoods upon this occasion ; they are these . . that the main design of my catholick letters are there declar'd to be no catholick doctrine . well bowl'd doctor . have i a word there pretending to shew the mysteries of faith , or the authority of the church [ that is believ'd by faith ] that is it's supernatural infallibility by assistance of the holy ghost , to be demonstrable ? is it not shewn you in most express words ( third cath. letter . p. . . ) and in many other places ) that we speak only of the * humane authority of the church , which is to be prov'd by natural mediums , and not of the other which is believ'd by the faithfull ? this then is a meer forg'd pretence against your own conscience and perfect knowledge . . that i was censur'd and retracted : whereas 't is manifest not any thing as it lay in my books ( that is indeed nothing of mine ) was censur'd ; nor did i subscribe , otherwise than as not retracting my doctrine , but persisting in it as being free from censure . this the arch-bishop of paris allow'd , and the censurers themselves judged to be iust and true , and upon those terms acquitted me and made me satisfaction . . he says , that if this ( the sense condemn'd ) be not catholick doctrine , he is infallibly certain my letters are far from being catholick in their sense . now , not one word is there in those letters which is the sense condemn'd , as i shew'd lately ; however i am glad he who has still been so high against all infallibility in his writings , and deny'd it to the catholick , or any church , owns it at least in himself . i see now what grounds he went upon when he would not make a candid retractation of his irenicum . certainly this man would persuade us to take his word for our rule of faith. but the ill luck , is his infallibility is evidently prov'd already to be willfull forgery , against plain and authentick matter of fact. he say ▪ the a. b. of d. averrs many fine things already answer'd , and that my plea was ridiculous . which is false for any thing he or i know . for , that illustrious personage deny'd that book of lominus to be his , or did any man own it ; but it came out surreptitiously without the approbation of any man , under an unknown name , nay , without so much as the printers name to it ; which was punishable by the laws there . whence we may judge of our drs. sincerity : in his second letter to mr. g. p. . by putting heresis blacloana in the margent over against his appeal to f. w. he hinted , that that venerable person was author of that book . beat off from that false and ungrounded pretence , he has found us another author for it ; and i expect in his next piece we shall have a third or fourth ; according as his fancy , so heated now that it has shaken off all regard to civility , shall prompt him . again , he shews us how wonderfully ingenuous he is , by his quoting against me the railing book of an unknown adversary , which had besides all the marks of a libel in it ; and over-flipping the attestation of eight worthy divines of great repute ; who , openly and owning their names , did witness that those places , in my books , did not bear the sense in which those words pick't out thence were censur'd . add that dr. st. knew all these particulars were clear'd satisfactorily , since it appears ( by his quoting them ) he had read my defences , in which they are printed at large . which common sense may assure him i durst not have done , in the life-time of all the persons mention'd and concern'd , without quite losing my cause ; nay i should have expos'd my self to new accusations as a falsifier , had i not dealt sincerely to a tittle , and preserv'd all the authentick originals in my own hands , for the justification of my defences , which i yet have . i charge the dr. then , to have publisht against me willfull and notorious falshoods , which he had reason to know to be such . yet we are still to think he did all this out of his pure love to moral honesty , of which he makes such a saintly profession . i challenge him moreover to shew me any one catholique writer of any eminency ( i do profess i do not know so much as one of any degree whatever ) whoever censur'd this position , that the infallibility of the churches humane authority , antecedent to faith , and deriving down christ's doctrine might be demonstrated ; which is all i require in my catholick letters . whereas the * right reverend f. w. has named him divers , both ancient and modern , who follow that method in general ; and i have quoted * divers eminent controvertists as occasion serv'd , and particularly insisted on * two beyond all exception , f. fisher here in england , and dominicus de sta trinitate , who writ and printed his book at rome , and had it approv'd by the magister sacri palatii , who take the same way i do , almost to a tittle . i may add , to the drs. greater confusion , the authority of the arch-bishop of d. himself , and of all those eminent persons who have approv'd my doctrine , as shall be seen hereafter . . not a man then has dr st. on his side , but one unknown and altogether unapprov'd author lominus , and a bitter adversary to me besides ; out of whose falshoods , interlarded with his own , and by his concealing my replyes to all he objects ( and those such as fully satisfy'd my judges and superiours ) he makes a shift to patch up his calumnies . we will see next , whether ( to his further shame ) my books or doctrin have not had testimonials of greater weight to approve and authenticate them , than that of lominus was to condemn them . . in the first place that blessed and glorious martyr , the illustrious , and eminently learned oliver plunket , arch-bishop of armagh and primate of all ireland , assoon as he heard my books were oppos'd , out of his meer justice , love of truth and the esteem he had of my doctrin , unsought to nay unthought of , sent me out of ireland , an approbation of it writ with his own hand , and seal'd with his archiepiscopall seal , in these words . * [ infrascripti testamur , &c. wee underwritten do attest that we have read thorough diligently and accurately , and that with both profit and pleasure , three books writ in the english dialect , publish'd by that learned person mr. iohn sergeant , whose titles and arguments are these ; surefooting in christianity , faith vindicated , and reason against raillery ; in which i have not only found nothing against the integrity of the true faith and of good manners ; but , moreover , clear and solid principles , which admirably conspire to the estabishing and confirming the catholick doctrin . for , both by reasons and authorities they excellently impugn the protestants affirming the holy scripture is the only rule of faith ; and vigorously maintain that the genuin doctrin of christ and his apostles has descended , by the force of tradition , from century to century , nay from year to year , incorruptedly to our time , and still remains inviolably in the orthodox church . in testimony whereof we have subscrib'd , and have caus'd our portatil seal to be assixt , this th of march . at armagh oliversus armachanus , totius hiberniae primas . can any man imagin that this grave and learned personage , who had for twelve years profest divinity in the sacra congregatio at rome , and had been advanc'd by them to this high dignity , would have hazarded his credit there , in approving so highly the writings of one who was a stranger to him and no ways capable to oblige him , had he not been perfectly assur'd there was nothing censurable in them ? yet , this , tho' known to our ingenuous dr. is nothing with him . he crys still lominus for my money , let him be what he will ; and assures the reader upon his morall honesty , he is infallibly certain my doctrin in my letters is not catholik . . the next in dignity is that illustrious and right reverend personage mr. peter talbot arch bishop of dublin , who dy'd a confessor of the catholik faith in dublin castle in the time of that truly hellish , tho' not popish plot. this eminent person more than once has approv'd and highly commended my doctrin . * [ the author of surefooting ( says he ) has with great zeal writ divers treatises of this matter ( viz. the force of tradition ) and has overwhelm'd those who defend only morall certainty in faith with so great confusion that they can no way clear themselves from the blemish of atheism , to which their principles and meer probability of faith lead ; of which crime the foresaid author proves them guilty beyond all possibility of reply . and a little after , he acknowledges that the rule of faith ( viz. in our controversies ) is the humane authority of the church ; and , that it must be an infallible directress ; otherwise it might lead us out of the way . unfortunate dr. st. to quote an authority against me , which so highly approves my doctrine and condemns his as leading to atheism ! the reader may hence discern how likely 't is the archbishop of dublin should be the author of lominus his book , * where he and dr. tillotson are praised for writing so catholickly against mee ; whereas that right reverend prelate so highly extolls my books as writing so unanswerably against them. lastly , in his appendix to that book of his cited above , he has this solid discourse . * [ altho' tradition does not demonstrate or conclude evidently the divinity of christ , nor consequently can demonstrate or conclude evidently that the revelation of our faith was divine ; yet 't is a conclusive argument ad hominem , against protestants and all those who acknowledge the divinity of christ , that god reveal'd all the articles which the roman catholick church professes , in regard they acknowledge christ to be god. and thus the author of sure-footing , faith vindicated , &c. argues invincibly against his adversaries for the conclusive evidence ( by the force of tradition ) that god reveal'd all the articles of the roman catholick faith , out of the supposition that christ is god. note that this appendix was write purposely to clear me , after the conference in abbot montague's chamber : where tho' i would not then answer to propositions taken out of books , when no books were there to clear them by the context ; yet , after i had the objections in writing , i did answer them ; and this to the * satisfaction of the arch-bishop himself , and of * dr. gough who was present , and prejudic'd formerly against my writings . . i had compriz'd the sum of my doctrine into a short treatise , entituled , a method to arrive at satisfaction in religion ; which when i was at paris i translated into latin , and shew'd it to that excellent prelate the bishop of condom ; my singular friend and patron , desiring his judgment of it . he read it , and at my request made his exceptions ; which being clear'd by me , he askt me why i did not print it ? i reply'd i would , so his grandeur would please to give me leave to dedicate it to himself . which obtain'd , it was propos'd to the sorbon for their approbation of it , the former of them ( monsieur pirot ) testifying it contain'd nothing against faith or good manners , & the later of them ( dr gage ) added that the most certain rule of faith was in that treatise exactly settled and invincibly defended . but still obscure lominus is worth twenty sorbons in dr. st's . learned judgment . tho' 't is here to be observed that the bishop of condoms approbation was antecedent to theirs ; not only as allowing and owning the book , but as inviting me to print it . . i alledge in the fourth place the testimony of my superiour here in england , mr. humphry ellice , an ancient dr. and professor of divinity , and late dean of our catholick chapter ; whose sanctity of life and solid judgment gave him a high esteem with all that knew him . this grave and venerable person , besides the ordinary and customary approbation of my books , added that they do clearly demonstrate , out of the very nature of ecclesiastical tradition , that the doctrin delivered by christ and his apostles , was inviolably eonserv'd in the roman-catholick and apostolick church even to this age in which we now live ; and by irrefragable force of reason did evidently convince the grounds of the hereticks ( meaning dr. st. and dr. till . against whom i had writ ) to be meer tricks and vain fallacies . but still lominus ( that is the lord knows who ) is dr. st's . only saint and infallible oracle . . it were not amiss to add next the testimony or rather judgment of that deservedly esteemed , and learned man , mr. r. h. author of the guide of controversy . this excellent writer , though he inclines rather to the school-opinion of the sufficiency of moral certainty , yet , like a truly ingenuous and charitable man , preferring the common good of christianity before his own private sentiment , after having discourst according to his own grounds , he , in allusion to my way of proceeding , subjoyns these words : [ but then , if any , after all this , can make good any farther certainty in such tradition ; i know no party , if christian , that has any interest to oppose him — the stronger any one can make this faith , they have all reason to like it the better . ] by which 't is apparent that he is so far from condemning and censuring the way i take , that he declares 't is not the interest of any party , if christian , to oppose it ; and that himself and every one ought to like it better than the other way , so it could be made good . and , that it can , my best reason tells me ; since , as appears by my method , it has born the test of being reduc't even to self-evidence ; and the miserable shifts and evasions , to which the most learned of our adversaries are driven , to avoid it's force , do more and more assure me 't is not at all hard to compass it . . in the last place , to omit many others , i shall put the testimony of that very reverend person f. martin harney , dr. of divinity of the university of lovain , and principal regent of the general studies of the order of st dominick : who being askt at rome ( where he was at the time of the contest ) his judgment of my doctrin , compriz'd in my method , and of the sense of the three propositions , as they lie in my books , gave under his hand this testimonial of both . i under-written have attentively read the method writ by mr john sergeant , and his vindication of the three propositions pickt out of his books ; and i have found that the method is sound doctrin , and usefull to reduce many to the catholick faith. and in his vindiciae 'tis plainly demonstrated that the foresaid propositions , as written by the author , do make a sense altogether orthodox . this reverend person i had never seen , nor heard of ; nor could any thing but the love of truth move him to this approbation ; nay , he must have lost much credit with the sacra congregatio , had my doctrin been prov'd vnorthodox , or the propositions in my book , ( as infallible dr. st. affirms ) heretical . . modesty forbids me to mention the excessive encomiums of that eminent controvertist mr. edward worsley , a father of the society ; who , though utterly unknown to me , took such a friendship for me upon the reading my books , and in all places where he came extoll'd my poor endeavours with such immoderate expressions , that to save my blushes in rehearsing them i intreat those who have the curiosity to read them in my declaratio from p. . to p. . i shew'd them to the right honourable the earl of castlemain , who was pleas'd to do me the right to attest them to be his hand-writing . the same noble personage & as many as knew f. worsley , will , i doubt not , do that right to his memory , as to witness for him that as he was second to none in ability to distinguish between sound and tainted doctrine ; so his sincere candour and integrity set him as far above the humour of flattery , as my meanness could incline any to it . . the sum of my present defence is this . eight divines of great repute appointed by the arch-bishop of paris , and admitted by my adversary himself , do unanimously attest that the sense condemn'd is not in my books , but the contrary . my judge clears me , the censurers are commanded to make me satisfaction . the highest tribunal allows my plea , and acquits me . primates , arch-bishops , bishops , the sorbon , eminent divines , and even those who take another way in their writings , approve and commend my doctrine , and most of them in very high and extraordinary expressions ; my own superiour does the same ; nay even those , who were formerly highly prejudic't , declar'd themselves satisfy'd in it . so that poor dr. st. is left alone to ballance against all this weighty authority , with one lominus , a meer utopian , or man in the moon ; on whose sole no-authority he grounds all his sensless calumnies . was ever weak man so baffled ! add , that he knew that all these defences of mine had been made and accepted many years ago , and those authorities alledg'd , and my doctrine thus approv'd and clear'd ; yet he had not the candour to let his reader have the least hint of any of those particulars ; which argues not too great love of moral honesty . nor does he take off any one answer of those many i had given ; but only says over again rawly some few things objected , reply'd to , and printed fourteen years ago ; and plays upon a double-sens't word or two by applying them still to wrong subjects . which is in effect to tell the reader he must either talk insignificantly against evident matter of fact , or say just nothing , and to confess in plain terms he is at a perfect nonplus . . to close this present business i desire the reader to reflect that those judges , approvers and commenders of my books and doctrine , liv'd generally in divers and far-distant nations , were of different faculties and universities , of different education , different orders , and ( to some degree ) of different principles and interests ; some of them of slight acquaintance ; divers utterly unknown to me , or i to them. so that , 't is impossible to imagine that any thing but the force of truth and the integrity of my way of proving the certainty of our faith as to it 's being taught by iesus christ , could make them conspire to allow or abet my writings so heartily and unanimously . nor could there be any human inducements to make them so partial to a private man every way inconsiderable , and of no esteem at all but what my writings and principles gave me . whence , though no one church , as dr. st. weakly objects , has ever own'd my doctrine ( to give formal approbations of controversial or theological writings not being a work proper for churches ) yet , the dignity of the persons and all these circumstances consider'd , i conceive it may amount to the full weight of the judgment of any one particular church whatsoever , that my doctrin is sound and orthodox . nor will he , i believe , find that any work of a particular writer hath had more authentick testimonials for it , than my poor endeavours have had ; except that of the never-enough-praised , the bishop of condom . and 't is not the least confirmation of their integrity that they have been twice brought to the tryal , ( at paris and rome ) and nothing unsound found in them . though i must do the doctor the right to acknowledge he has spoke one ( and hitherto but one ) true word : but he is to be pardon'd for prevaricating from his constant method of speaking falshoods , for it was at unawares , and he knew not he did so ; the truth he spoke against his will was this , that i hardly escaped censure at rome : and therefore , to make his words good , i 'le tell him how it was . all my books were sent thither to cardinal barberin ; and amongst them one written by the right honourable my lord chancellour hyde , in defence of dr. st. against mr. cressy ; pretending ( the title of this last being torn out ) they were all writ by the same author , my self ; there went with them a desire to his eminency , that , not to give them the trouble of perusing them all , he would cause only this last of my lord chancellour's to be read ; and , by the character he receiv'd of that , to judge whether all the rest writ by that author ought not to be condemn'd . he gave them to an english divine to keep , who knew nothing of the contest ; ordering him to read only that , and give him a faithfull account of it as soon as he could . while he was reading it , god's providence so order'd it , that an english gentleman , his acquaintance , came accidentally into his chamber , and finding all my books on his table , askt how they came there ? he , hearing mee nam'd as their author , admir'd , and said he could not believe they were mine ; in regard he had heard i was a writer for catholick faith ; whereas this author was of far other principles . after some perusing it , my friend found it was my lord chancellour's book foisted in for one of mine . which understood by my friend's testimony and the finding all the other books to run in a quite different strain , they inform'd the protectour of the fourbe that was put upon him , and so my poor books escapt scot-free . by this or some such stratagem they might perhaps have been condemn'd , but that there was any danger of it when my defences were seen and compar'd with the accusations , infallible dr. st. is the first man that ever inform'd us . but , what would we have from a man that can scarce speak a word of liquid truth ! . but , tho' dr. st. has neither manag'd this invidious cavil solidly , nor ( he must pardon me ) honestly or justly , according to any moral honesty but his own , which he has told us he so loves : has he at least deserv'd the commendation given to the vnjust steward ; has he done wisely , or , in any degree , prudently ? let 's see . in his irenicum , he * had sacrificed the whole order of bishops to the pleasure of the magistrate or the mobile , and actually degraded them into the rank of presbyters ; or , to give us a more compleat map of that ill book , that he had given us there a curtail'd kind of episcopacy coldly and faintly allow'd , presbytery strongly pleaded for , independency much favour'd , and ( says my author ) if my memory fails me not , in the matter of tithes a spicing of anabaptistry and quakerism . one would think by this description the name of that book should be legion , and that such pestilent principles were needfull to be retracted . it seems the bishops who were most concern'd , durst not attacque such a numerous army of private-spirited enemies , drawn-up into one body . for himself assures us that * the bishops and regular clergy treated him with more kindness then so much as to mention any such thing as a recantation . nay , his vindicator tell us moreover that * the prudent and reverend governours of their church did admire the performance . well! but what provision was made in the mean time against the mischief and scandall ? could this man have done the bishops a greater disparagement , than to tell the world they preferr'd a personal civility and a complementary virtue before the care of christs institution , and their own most particular interest ? but , tho' they were over civil to him , why had not he the goodness by a voluntary recantation to give a stop to the spreading that contagious doctrin , if indeed he did not hold it still ? he could not think it pleas'd them , nor that their shews of kindness were real and hearty . however his vindicatour brags they made choice of him to undertake the defence of the conferences with f. fisher. yet so , says the other , as mr prynn , a man of a restless spirit and unsettled judgment was put to the records in the tower to employ his busy mind . well , but how came he off with that task ? a fair occasion might have been taken there to set all right again , had the dr. pleas'd . but he was so far from that , that mr. lowth tells him , it would have discompos'd the arch-bishop upon the scaffold , had he foreseen he should have had such a vindicatour ; and that he finds little amends there for his irenicum doctrins , but rather an evident confirmation of them , if not doing worse . this is still more and more obstinate ; and a kind of huffing those , who had so over-civilly forborn him , by doing still the same or worse . yet afterwards , i know not how or why , he made some ambidextrous retractations , which left all understanding men dissatisfy'd , as well as mr. lowth ; tho' he , about to publish a book of church-government & the irenicum-doctrines crossing his way hapt to be the sole man that oppos'd them publickly , tho' multitudes of the most hearty , most learned , and most eminent protestants utterly dislik't them . but , first he writ to him civilly and upon honest conditions would have wav'd him . but the dr. had got too much head by this kind connivence , and so he could get no other answer , but scorn and some foul play ; the two main ingredients in the doctors constitution , as my self too frequently experience . hereupon that honest and plain-dealing gentleman , whom all true lovers of christ's institution and particularly all genuin members of the church of england ought to respect for his undaunted love of truth , and firmness to church-principles , did animadvert upon him severely ; as an incorrigible wronger of such sacred concerns deserv'd . he demands in behalf of the church he would make a recantation as publick as the errour , scandal and offence had been . the doctor setts on a iack pudding to abuse and scoff at him ; one ( says my author ) who has * hackney'd out himself to write against his conscience and iudgment , as appears by his own letters . a fit man for dr. st's purpose . this pleasant gentleman pretended such a recantation was already made . to which mr. lowth's vindicator ( a person of a solid judgment and moderate temper , and , as is seen , p. . a kind friend to dr. st. ) reply'd , that all amounted to little better than a say so . he shews that what is cited out of the general conferences was a scurvy palliation of the matter . that his book [ the unreasonableness of separation ] signify'd no more than motives to compliance in the iudgment of interest or discretion ; and for the most part might be urg'd for any settled constitution , even that of geneva or amsterdam . that any man might get easily off what he had said ; and each party , as the tide turn'd , might apply them to their own advantage . that the doctor though he pretended mutability of church government in his irenicum , yet he had perpetually fixt the presbytery by divine right unalterable . that the recantation was far from hearty ; in regard that , altho' his vindicator freely confesses the fault , and mr. lowth to be in the right , yet he with the same breath reviles him . lastly , to omit many other particulars , that ( which i have most reason to reflect on ) the dean , when he speaks of church authority , takes away with one hand what he gives with the other ; that the authority of ( meerly ) proposing matters of faith and directing men in religion , is no authority at all ; nay that they rather imply a power in those to whom they are propos'd , at discretion to reject them ; and that it makes the church'es authority , precarious , and lays her open to all manner of hereticks . this is what i ever judg'd lay at the bottom of his heart ; that in things belonging to faith , he sets the judgement of every one of his sober enquirers above the church'es . which made me reflect so severely upon it in my errour nonplust , and in divers other places of my third catholick letter . but of late , the juncture ( as he hopes ) being more favourable , he is gone beyond his former self ; for in his second letter to mr. g. he confidently affirms that every sober enquirer may without the church'es he●p find out all necessary points of faith in scripture . now , proposing and directing are some kind of help , but here they are both deny'd it seems ; and all help from the church , as to the matter of saving faith is deny'd . this then seems to be the antecedent belief the dr. sets up , and thence inferrs , that a man may be in a state of salvation in his single and private capacity apart , * and out of all church society and ecclesiastical communion , tho' he live where it is to be had ; which ( says the answerer ) utterly overthrows all church government . this ought to give every honest man who loves order and government ( of what judgment soever he be ) such grounded jealousies that he is setting up a babel of no-church-men against christ's church , that no satisfaction competent , unless the several propositions be extracted out of his books , and either formally and expressly retracted , or else that he shew that , as they ly in his books they bear not that wicked sense they seem to do , neither of which has been done . nay , lest he should deal slipperily by common and palliating words , at which he is very expert ; it will be farther requisit that he be oblig'd to write against those ill tenets himself , and offer convincing reasons to prove them false ; that so men may see it comes from his heart . and this done and the interest of truth once in demnify'd , he is one of the worst christians who refuses to honour him far more than if he had never lapst . si non errasset , fecerat ille minus . . what concerns me particularly is to note hence the prodigious imprudence of dr. st. in objecting against me self contradictions , which have long ago been clear'd ; and the dissatisfaction of two or three roman-catholicks ( for i know of no more ) who became well satisfy'd when they had read my books , and compar'd them with my explication ; and when as he knew my self after a severe trial was clear'd by my judges ( which he will never be ; ) and during the time of it , when it was most dangerous for any to stand up for me , my books and doctrin were most authentickly approv'd nay highly commended by most eminent authority : what a madness was it for him to object falsly and against evident matter of fact that i retracted . whenas all the while ▪ he knew himself had had the misfortune to have writ such unsound doctrin , that his vindicator is forc't to confess it as his best plea , that he has retracted it ; and yet tho' , as 't is said , he has done it on his fashion , he is still apprehended to be so hollow , that he cannot yet gain the belief to have done any more than palliate his gross errours ; to be inconsistent with himself , and to take away from the church with one hand what he gives it with the other : of these things he never yet clear'd himself , nor can ; but is still accus'd of harbouring the same errours in his breast , nay to grow still worse and worse . which i was so far from desiring to lay open , that i civilly insinuated it afar off in my third catholick letter , p. . without so much as naming his person ; that i might keep him from such impertinent and extrinsical topicks , which the reader may observe , do , for want of better , make up three quarters of his controversial writings . sect . ii. how dr. st. settles the true state of the controversy . . i have been longer about this first section than seem'd needfull . but the influence it has upon our future dispute will recompence my trouble , and excuse my prolixity . the second thing his method leads him to ( for hitherto it has led him quite out of the way ) is to state the controversy . and to this end , he acquaints us with the occasion of the conference ; which was that mr. g. affirm'd in some company that no protestant could shew any ground of absolute certainty for their faith ; and that mr. t. had promis'd him that if dr. st. were not able to manifest the contrary , he would forsake his communion . will the dr hold to these words ? 't is plain here that mr g. demanded he should shew grounds to ascertain his faith absolutely . mr. t. expected he should manifest they had such grounds as did ascertain their faith ; and , if he could not , was to leave his communion : lastly , that dr. st. by accepting the challenge , became engag'd to satisfy mr t 's . expectation , and to manifest the contrary to what mr g. had asserted ; that is to manifest he had grounds of absolute certainty for his faith ; or , ( which comes to the same ) for christian faith upon his grounds being taught by christ. and , how did the dr. acquit himself , and perform this ? why , he assign'd scripture for the ground or rule of his faith , and universal tradition for the proof of the books of scripture . all the company knew this before . for , both sides knew , held and granted already that the book of scripture was prov'd by universal tradition , and every one knew too that dr st. would assign it for the ground or rule of his faith. wherefore , unless all the company were out of their wits , surely something more was expected ; and what could that be , but that he should manifest his faith was absolutely certain by relying on that rule , or that the rule he assign'd , gave him , and his , absolute certainty of their faith , or of those tenets which they held upon it . for , it being agreed on both sides that the sense of the scripture was in it self true faith , gods word , and as such to be embrac't , the only question was of the sense of scripture as to us , or as to our knowledge of it : and of this the dr was to shew and manifest he had absolute certainty by any way his grounds afforded him ; otherwise , he might fall short or be wrong in the knowing scriptures sense ( that is , in his faith ) tho' the letter were never so certain . again , by his counterposing to those words of his [ than you can have for the points in difference between us ] 't is manifest the contest was , whether he had absolute certainty of those points he held upon his rule . what says the dr now to this plain state of the controversy ? . first he changes the ground of absolute certainty for his faith into proving the absolute certainty of the ground or rule of his faith : which transposes the terms of the question , and alters the whole business . for absolute certainty for faith engages him to shew the doctrin or tenets of faith to be thus certain ; whereas [ absolute certainty of the rule of our faith ] makes absolute certainty affect the rule , but leaves all faith uncertain , unless the pretended rule proves a good one , and renders the doctrin of christian faith , consisting of many particular points , thus absolutely certain ; which himself will tell us afterwards , he will not stand to . next , he equivocates in the word [ scripture ] which may either mean the letter , or the sense of it . now the sense of it being faith , 't is that only could be meant by mr. g. and of which it was affirmed he could not shew grounds absolutely ascertaining it ; the sense , i say , of scripture , could only be question'd since the letter was agreed to . wherefore to alledge tradition for his proof of what his grounds will not allow to it , viz. to bring down the sense of scripture or faith , and turn it off to the shewing certainty of the letter , which was out of question , is a most palpable prevarication . . he quite forgets to shew that any point of his faith or all of it , ( speaking of the controverted or dogmatical points as we do ) may not be false , notwithstanding his proof for the certainty of its letter : which if it be , 't is not faith ; unless he will say the points of his faith may be so many untruths . . it has been prest upon him over and over in * my catholick letters to shew how his rule influences his assent of faith with absolute certainty . it has been inculcated to him how both [ rule ] and [ ground ] are relative words ; and , therefore , that he could not pretend they were to him absolutely certain grounds for his faith , unless he shew'd how they made him absolutely certain of that faith of his , which was the correlate . which tho' the most material point , and most strongly prest upon him , he takes no notice of in his whole reply ; and it shall be seen that , when he comes to touch upon that point ( after his fashion ) hereafter , he is forc't to confess they are no absolutely certain ground or rule to him at all . lastly , that , when ( faith being truth ) the question was whether he had any such ground as could conclude it true that christ had taught his faith , and consequently whether he has any faith at all ; he slips over that , and rambles into a discourse about more or less faith in scripture , instead of shewing he had any . other shifts he has , but these are his master-pieces : so that his whole performance , as to the conference , amounted to no more , than to take up the bible in his hand , and cry aloud [ look ye , gentlemen , here is my ground or rule of faith ; and your selves must confess 't is absolutely certain ; and , therefore , you cannot deny but i have shewn you the ground of absolute certainty for my faith. ] but if it should be reply'd : sr , an arian or socinian might do the same , and yet no by-stander be the wiser for it , or more able to discern which of you has christs true faith , which not ; in regard that must be decided by shewing who has an absolutely certain means to know the true sense of the letter ; the drs insignificant principles carry no farther , but ( as we shall see anon ) to confess plainly neither of them have any such means of absolute certainty at all . and that he cannot manifest what was expected of him and he stood engag'd to manifest . . the case then between us being such plain sense , what says the learned dr to it ? why , besides his rare evasions lately mention'd , he tells the reader vapouringly his way of reasoning was too hot for mr. g. which i have shewn to be frigid nonsense . he complains that our obliging him to prove or shew clearly what belong'd to him ( for no body held him to mood and figure ) is like the trammelling a horse . that we insinuate mr. g. is non suited , which is far from true. he is peevishly angry at the metaphor of playing at cards , and persecutes it without mercy ; which is a scurvy sign that , however he pretended to a purse full of gold and silver , he is a loser ; and that he will be put to borrow some citations out of authors to combat the council of trent , hoping to recover by that means some of the credit he has lost by the nonplusage of his reason . he pretends he gives us good security : that is , for the letter of scripture , which was not the end of the conference , nor is our question ; but not the least security for its sense , or faith , which was . he talks of declamations and the schools in the savoy ; and glances at my pretending to intrinsical grounds ; which is to maintain that humane authority ( which is the only thing i was to prove ) is to be believed blindly , whether a man sees any reason why he ought to believe it , or no. he talks too of the cardinals in the inquisition ; who , tho' my just judges , were my very good friends . he says my grounds had sav'd the martyrs lives , and he makes a rare plea for them out of my principles : forgetting , good man , that we are writing controversy to satisfy men who are in their way to faith ; whereas those blessed martyrs were not only already faithfull , but moreover liv'd up to christ's doctrin ; and , so , had inward experience in their consciences of it's sanctity and truth . he imagins the iews who saw our saviour's miracles had no intrinsick grounds . whereas true miracles being evidently above nature , are known to be such by comparing them with the course of natural causes , known by a kind of practical evidence or experience : and must i be forc't to render him so weak as to instruct his ignorance that the knowledge of things in nature is an intrinsick ground , and not extrinsical as testimony is ? he sticks close to his friend lominus , right or wrong , in despite of all the evident and authentick testimonies to the contrary ; whom before ( for want of others to second him ) he split into two , and now multiplies into the lord knows how many . to gratifie his friend dr. tillotson , and excuse his , and his own silence , he says i have retracted the main principles in faith vindicated and reason against raillery ; which , in plain terms , is an vnexcusable falshood . to explicate two or three words , and shew by prefaces , states of the question and many signal passages they were misunderstood and apply'd to wrong subjects , ( as i did to the satisfaction of my judges , and even of prejudic't persons ) signifies plainly not-to retract them : nor shall he name any one learned and orthodox man of our church who says my explication is not genuin and sincere ; whereas i have nam'd him many , eminent in both those qualities , who have attested under their hands they are such . he ends with bidding the reader judge what i. s. has gotten by the confession of parties . as much as in modesty he could have wisht ; as appears by the approbations of his books and success in his suit. what dr. st. has got by the confession of his party , may be seen by an eminent man , not writing in hugger-mugger and disguise , but owning his name , viz. that he * is accus'd of having mountebankt and quackt for full five and twenty years . and these wretched shifts he has thought fit to use here to avoid the point , le ts us see he has not left it yet . nor am i to expect he should easily quit such an inveterate habit , grown into a kind of nature by a five and twenty years custom and practice . . now comes the state of the question , as his second letter has craftily put it ; tho' i conceive it was best stated by shewing the occasion and sole end of the conference ; to which i will hold , nor will i be beat off from it by any excursions either then or since . there was a question then put to dr. st. in these words , whether you are absolutely certain that you hold now the same tenets in faith , and all that our saviour taught his apostles . i thought i did well in putting him to answer directly that , he was . he says by my favour he us'd other words . and what were those ! why , instead of the same tenets in faith , and all that our saviour taught to his apostles , he answer'd [ all the same doctrin that was taught by christ and his apostles ▪ ] there 's a cloud in this carriage of his , it being against the clear way of honest nature . was the position as it lay in the terms of the proposer , true ; and , so , to be granted ? why did he not grant it then ? was it false ? why did he not deny it ? was it ambiguous ? why did he not , the proposer being present , desire him to explain it ? no neither . none of these plain and common methods would please him . what then ? he would needs change the words of the question in his answer . and by what rule ? was his answer the same in sense with the question ? if not , his answer was no answer to that question , but the saying another thing on his own head . if it was the same sense , why did he not speak to it directly in the proposers words ? the reason he gives is , because he 's afraid of orall tradition lest it should vary the sense . whose sense ? the proposer's ? his sense was fixt in determinate words , and if it were not known , the doctor might have known it if he had pleas'd . he means then his own sense . what ? must he put what sense he thinks fit to the question ? this is a quaint way of answering . and why should not the proposer fear , as himself did here , lest by changing his words , as he did enormously , he should change his sense too ? but this orall tradition like a spright so haunts his fancy , that all along ( as shall be seen ) he either starts perpetually into excursions and counterfeit mirth , or stumbles into downright nonsense . and this i believe verily is the general reason of all his failings : but we are now to seek out his particular reason of changing the words here . the last words that differ in the question and answer can break no squares , for christ and his apostles agreed well enough ; and that heavenly master of theirs taught them all faith either by himself or the holy ghost sent in his name . the danger then must be in these words [ the same tenets in faith ] which he changes , for his security , into [ the same doctrin . ] because the word [ doctrin ] signifies all in the lump ( as * he expresses it ) to shew which he hop't it might be sufficient to shew the book of scripture ; whereas the plural word [ tenets ] might come to oblige him to shew how he has absolute certainty of each or any point in particular , to which he has a great antipathy . and , accordingly , when he came to perform this , he chang'd again the absolute certainty of faith into absolute certainty of scripture . i answer'd . they held more to be of faith than that the book so call'd is scripture . he first trifles that we mean more than is contain'd in scripture , contrary to our express words , where there 's not a syllable of containing or not-containing all faith. however , if i mean his assent to points of faith contain'd in scripture , he promises a full answer afterwards : which we impatiently long to see . only we intreat him , because 't is a far off , he would not lose absolute certainty by the way ; nor fool our expectations when we come at it , by letting the full answer promist us , vanish away into a flat denial he has any such certainty of those points at all . . i argu'd ad hominem that , since he confesses tradition causes certainty , it makes faith as certain as scripture : he seems to confess it ; but denies we have such an universal tradition for our tridentin faith. as if the faith come down by tradition were not the same before and since that council ; or that the tradition we build on did not consist of such a vast body of attesters as were able to evince the truth of a plain matter of fact , unless those who had renounc't tradition did club to it's certainty . but is it not pretty to observe that he pretends not to hold faith to be certain by our tradition because 't is not universal , and yet at the same time disputes against tradition's being a certain deriver of christ's faith even tho' it were universal ! for , his principles allow no more hand in our faith to universal tradition , but only to bring down the book of scripture , and then make that book the only ascertainer of our faith. he threatens to shew the tridentin council had not universal tradition for it's decrees ; and to give us a taste before-hand of that treatise , he adds , let the matter of tradition it self , as a rule of faith , be one of those points . well shot doctor ! the points he speaks of here are exprest to be points of faith ; and the tradition we defend in our controversy at present is the human authority of the church , which we make to be the rule to those coming to faith ; and so it is antecedent to faith and the object of pure natural reason : and does he in his great learning think this is a point of faith ? or is it not possible to keep this roving pen of his to any thing ? but he designs to prove this mighty advantage of his cause , and that no catholick tradition can be produc't against his church in any one point of the additional creed of pius iv. suppose it could not ; has he therefore prov'd he has absolute certainty of the faith he holds , in case we could not prove some other points which we hold ? yet he has undertaken at all adventures this great design , and will suddenly publish the first part ; and , if god gives him life and health ( he should have said , principles too ) he hopes to go thorough the rest . as much as to say , he designs to leave the certainty of his faith in the lurch , to tell the world publickly he has done so ; and , if god gives him life and health , will continue to run away from that troublesome point as far as ever he can . he should first have answer'd error nonplust , and clear'd himself from being a man of no principles , before he can be fit to impugn others ; unless he thinks a man may dispute without principles ; as i verily believe he does ; for his odd methods of reasoning and answering need none . . but tho' he has the ill luck to want principles , he is , for all that , a good man ; and desires no more to end our controversies but to make salvation our end , and the scripture our rule . but , if there be no means to come at the sense of scripture in those most important articles with absolute certainty , many may come ( as millions have done ) to misunderstand such places , and thence to embrace a grand heresy instead of the chief points of true faith ; and does he think heretical tenets in such concerning points , is saving faith. let him shew that his principles lay such grounds as absolutely secure the truth of faith , e're he talks such pious ( or rather pernicious ) nonsense of a saving faith. for , should it hap to be false ( as by his grounds it may ) 't is neither faith , nor the means to salvation . he pretends i exclude all from salvation , who do not penetrate intrinsical grounds : but , 't is a flam of his own coyning . errour nonplust has long ago told him over and over , that 't is enough they adhere to a rule that is settled on solid or intrinsical grounds , and so cannot deceive them , tho' they do not at all penetrate , or ( as he calls it ) dig into the intrinsical grounds , why that authority or rule is inerrable . let the truth of faith be secured , and they have what 's simply requisit to salvation ; unless they be such persons as speculate or doubt , or are to defend the truth of faith against hereticks , and thence come to need a deeper inspection and knowledge of the reasons which conclude their rule does absolutely secure the reliers on it from error . caeteram quippe turbam ( as st. austin says contra ep. fund . ) non intelligendi vivacitas sed credendi simplicitas , tutissimam facit . for as for the others which are the vulgar , they are render'd absolutely secure , or out of danger of erring , not by the sagacity of understanding ▪ but by the simplicity of believing . . i know not certainly what past at the conference , about which he still keeps such a do . 't is high time to leave it off and follow our point . things should have been better manag'd to give us a clearer light ; for want of which we are forc't to trust the dr himself , tho' a party , and accept what he represents in his second letter to mr g. only i see it was confest on all hands that the sole end of it was that dr. st. should manifest he had grounds of absolute certainty for his faith ; and to that i will stick , and level my discourses accordingly . the dr is at his old shuffle again , of scripture's letter being certain and containing all ; neither of which are to any purpose , since neither of these reach his faith , which is an assent to determinate points . i alledg'd that the certainty of scripture was not the point for which the conference was . he asks how i know it ? by the very words that express it , put down here and acknowledg'd by himself p. . but mr g. knew it not . that 's more than i know , or the dr. either . it appears not what use he would have made of it after he had propos'd some questions to gain light what the drs. principles were ; for the dr. himself confesses mr t. cut off his discourse by declaring himself satisfied , and asking questions of his own . but mr. g. lost the point by asking questions about the rule . not so neither . for he was well acquainted with common sense , which told him the word [ rule ] is a relative word ; and , so , is to regulate us about the particular points of faith , which it relates to ; and that , unless it does this , 't is good for nothing , being meerly ordain'd for that end : which dr. st. either knows not , or will not seem to know , lest he should come to be engag'd to shew how his pretended rule influences any one point with absolute certainty ; and yet , if it does not this , 't is no ground for the absolute certainty of his tenets or faith. he says that by the scripture they are to judge what they are to believe , what not . by which we are to understand that he has shuffled away from shewing his rule to be a qualifying principle , which is to give his faith absolute certainty , to the making it a quantitative measure shewing what 's faith what not , or how much is of faith. it seems quantity and quality is all one with him : and he would be measuring his faith , before he knows he has any . as for his containing faith so often shown to be an insignificant pretence , let him know that between his having the letter of scripture containing all , and the doctrinal points , ( which is truly his faith ) there intervenes a quality in the rule called clearness , or plainness ; and such a one as is able to secure the reliers on it that what they receive upon that rule is not an errour , or a heresy , which is against faith. 't is this he is to make out ▪ and prove that this clearness is found in his rule apply'd to all sincere seekers after faith ; and , till he does this , 't is a phrenzy to maintain those men can have absolute certainty of faith by means of scripture's letter . yet hold him close to this plain point , and he 'l complain he 's trammell'd , he should say , gravell'd . but he says , he must not come near any one point of his faith , because being to shew he held all the same doctrin , &c. the word [ all ] made it necessary to assign a rule in which all is contain'd . now i verily thought that all signify'd every one , but his discourse makes it signify no one : again , how shall we know he holds the same doctrin , as he in his answer pretended he did , without particularizing the points held ? by this discourse the arians and most of the hereticks since christs time held the same doctrin he taught ; for they all held the scripture's letter to be certain , and that it contain'd their faith ; yet tell him this a hundred times over , and demand how this is a particular rule for his protestants , which is a common one to all hereticks , he is still deaf on that ear . lastly , since faith is truth , instead of a rule containing all , he should have assign'd a rule ascertaining it all to be true , and that none of the tenets he holds to be in scripture are hereticall . but he thanks you he 'll not burn his fingers with handling such hot points . he alledges that the mosaicall and mahometan laws are resolv'd into the book of moses and the alcoran . but apply this to our point 't is as wide from the purpose as what 's most . had there been such high and most important misteries contain'd in those laws as there are in the christian doctrin , deliver'd down and profest openly by those bodies from which multitudes had taken the liberty to recede by reason of the obscurity of the letter of those very laws ; in that case , there ought to have been some other rule to secure them from mistaking that letter , and able to give them its true sense ; and , therefore the certainty of that sense being their respective faiths , would necessarily have been resolv'd into such a rule , in regard the letter alone could not give and ascertain it . and 't is to be remark't , that all dr st's instances , parallells and similitudes which show prettily and look fine and glossy , when they come to be apply'd to the true point , do still miss of being sutable in those very particulars which are only to the purpose . . and now we are come to the long expected performance of showing his faith absolutely certain , to which he promis'd a full answer formerly . he begins with telling us that the case is not the same as to particular points of faith with that of the generall grounds of the certainty of faith. and what 's this to say , but that since the general grounds are held by him to be absolutely certain and so cannot be false , the particular points of faith , ( viz. the trinity , christ's godhead , &c. ) are not in the same but a worse case and so may be false . a fair , or rather a very foul concession ! yet he not only says it , but will prove it too from a jew 's having absolute certainty of all contain'd in the books of moses , and yet not having it as to such a particular point , viz. the resurrection . i would gladly know if that point be contain'd in those books ? and , if it be , how he can be absolutely certain of all , ( that is of every point , ) contain'd there , and yet not be thus certain of that point tho' contain'd there . i ever thought that omnis and aliquis non had been contradictories ; and had all the logicians in the world on my side in thinking so : and if the dr. have not invented a new scheme of logick of his own , fitted purposely to maintain nonsence , and can with his great authority make that logick good in despite of the whole world , he speaks flat downright contradiction . perhaps he may mean his jew ( or some other man who is not a jew , ) may have absolute certainty that those books containing all his faith were writ by men divinely inspir'd . and this he may have by the testimony for these books , tho' he can neither read , nor understand , nor ever heard read any one word in them : and has not this man an incomparable certainty of his faith , that knows no faith at all ? is not this to make a man absolutely certain of he knows not what ? yet , this it seems is all the resolution of dr. st's faith. but this is not the worst ; for not-knowing the contents of a book , is a kind of innocence in comparison of holding many wicked heresies by misunderstanding it . which tho' he should do , ( as do it he may , for the drs. principles give him no security from doing it ) his very heresies , tho' they be all the whole rabble of them that have pester'd the church since christ's time are resolved into the self-same grounds , as the drs faith is : for , all those hereticks believ'd the scripture to be the word of god , and believ'd all that the scripture contain'd to be of faith ; whence they had all faith in the lump , ( as he expresses it ) and so had good title to be parts of dr st's motley all comprehending church . if he denies it , let him show a soll●● reason by his principles why they should not ; no shadow of which i could ever discern in him yet . . he slides from this point , which he had no mind to come near could he have avoided it , to divers sorts of particular points ; meerly that he might have a show of saying something . for he knows well , and it has been told him above twenty times , we only speak of such dogmatical tenets as have been controverted between the church and her deserters : and , not to name all , we use to instance in two chief ones , the holy trinity and the divinity of our saviour . but , here our rambling disputant is taking another vagary quite out of the road of the question . lominus has set him so agog that he has quite forgot the thing we are about , nay even that we are writing controversy . he is turn'd school-divine on a sudden , tho' he is so utterly ignorant of it , that he cannot distinguish between controversy and it. he will needs fall to treat of faith as 't is a theological virtue ; and not only so , but moreover ( that he may show us how manifoldly he can mistake in one single point ) of that virtue as 't is in the hearts of those who are truly faithfull already , and have besides , well cultivated their souls by the practice of christ's law. whenas all this while he knows we in our controversy are only treating of faith as 't is provable to those who are looking after faith , that 't is christ's doctrine taught at first . tell him of this five hundred times and make it out never so clearly , he runs counter still and takes no notice of it . he was to write a book , and without mistaking willfully all along , he saw he could not do it in any degree plausibly . after many fruitless attempts to hold him to the true state of our controversy , which is about the rule or ground of faith as to our knowledge , it occurr'd to me that nothing could fetter him to it more fast , than to mind him how his friend dr. tillotson , whose book he approves does himself state it . * [ when w● enquire ( says he ) what is the rule of christian faith ? * the meaning of that enquiry is , by what way and means the knowledge of christ's doctrin is convey'd certainly down to us ; who live at the distance of so many ages from the time of it's first delivery . i intreat him then for dr. t 's sake , to remember that our controversy presupposes faith as 't is divine , and treats of it only as 't is derivable down to us at this distance ; and , therefore , since the knowledge of the certain means to do this , is , in our controversy , antecedent to the knowledge of christ's doctrin or faith , it must be manag'd by maxims of pure reason . . this point then settled , let us trace our prevaricatour in his wandrings . he tells us very gravely god is not wanting by his grace to make ( necessary ) points known to men of honest and sincere minds . what we demand of him is some natural medium or argument within our ken , concluding that what 's held by him now is christ's doctrin . he confesses he has none ( for he mocks at conclusive evidence ) but pretends god's grace will do it for him . we tell him that , without such conclusive reasons to prove our present faith to have been taught by christ , we cannot maintain or make out that our faith is true. and he tells us god is not wanting by his grace to make necessary points known to men of honest and sincere minds . and what man living has the courage to assault an adversary that comes arm'd with such a supernatural logick ! now all this , were it levell'd right , as 't is not , is meer petitio principii ; and , begging the question ; for it supposes scripture's letter interpretable by private judgments is the rule , which he was here to prove , and to shew us how it preserves those who rely on it from errour . for , otherwise , if it be not the rule , did god ever promise his grace to those who leave a clear and conclusive way to follow an obscure and inconclusive one ? did god's grace ever make a conclusion follow which did not follow , or make the terms cohere which were incoherent ? or keep those from errour who took a way , that , for any thing he has prov'd to the contrary , facilitated men to fall into it ? certainly , never was god's grace so abus'd to a wrong end , or call'd in at a dead lift like some deus ● machind to save his credit for bringing never an argument that is worth a rush. yet , 't is pleasant to see what a clutter he keeps about the donum intellectûs and lumen fidei , both which presuppose faith and the way to it , whereas all his work was to prove the certainty of this later . in this lamentable condition he has left his rule , recurring to invisible gifts ( the true blew fanatick method ) instead of producing open arguments to prove it has any power to regulate men in their way to faith. proceeding upon this gross and wilfull shuffle he makes a fine flourish of our school-divines who have not one single word of the way and means by which the knowledge of christ's doctrin is convey'd down to us , which is our present point , as his friend * dr. t. has told him : and then he concludes like a triumphant heroe that i am a stranger to the doctrin of our own church , or an obstinate opposer of it . alas for him ! he obstinately opposes , while he cites them , the known state of the question ; and is such a stranger to school-divinity that he cannot distinguish betwixt that and controversy ; and when he is taken tardy thus miserably , he thinks to salve all with swaggering and vapouring . . at length he sums up his performances with impertinent distinctions of all the things he is certain of . as , . that he is absolutely certain that whatever god reveals is true. who denies it ; or what 's the certainty of god's revealing to the certainty of his believing right , unless he be absolutely certain that the particular points he holds , were indeed reveal'd by god , or ( to speak more pertinently to our purpose ) were taught by christ and his apostles ? . he is absolutely certain of his rule , and it 's containing all necessary points . and what 's he the better for certainty of this , if still he remains uncertain of all the particular articles he is to believe by it ? . that god's grace is requisit to faith formally divine ; which is granted : but what 's this to the proving it by a natural medium to have come from christ , as he must do to those who are in the way to faith ? conclusive evidence must be produc't for this , or the proof must fall short of concluding ( whether we have grace or no ) and so leave it unprov'd and uncertain . . he says , particular points of faith are more or less certain , according to the evidence of their deduction from scripture as the rule of faith. this only seems to touch the point in hand , and it touches it very gingerly . let him speak out and tell us whether he is absolutely certain of all particulars of his faith , nay even of a trinity and christ's godhead by his rule ; or whether any man living is absolutely certain of them by his principles ? if not , then all faith may be a lying story for any thing he or any man else can tell . and that this is his true tenet is evident by his omitting here when he comes to speak of particular points , the words [ absolutely certain ] which he put to the two first parts of his division . nor do i like his expression of [ more or less certain ] for since any quality is more or less such , by having less or more of the opposit quality mixt with it , it follows that this his [ more or less certain ] must mean [ less or more uncertain ] strange language for a christian to use when he is speaking of all the particular articles of his faith , and what certainty is to be allow'd for them ! and yet he calls this , the setting this controversy about the certainty of faith in it's true light . a pleasanter jest than which was never spoke , were not the thing in it self so pernicious . sect iii. how dr. st. answers our reasons produc't against his grounds of certainty for his faith. . he proceeds next to answer my short discourse demonstrating that he , and those of his principles , could not be sure they had right faith. i presum'd he could not do it ; he says he has ; let 's see which of us is disappointed . it consists of five plain propositions . . god has left us some way to know surely what christ and his apostles taught . . therefore this way must be such that they who take it , shall arrive by it at the end it was intended for ; that is know surely what christ and his apostles taught . . scripture's letter interpretable by private iudgments , is not that way ; for we experience presbyterians and socinians ( for example ) both take that way , yet differ in such high fundamentals , as the trinity & godhead of christ. . therefore scripture's letter interpretable by private iudgments , is not the way left by god to know surely what christ and his apostles taught , or surely to arrive at right faith. . therefore they who take only that way , cannot by it arrive surely at right faith ; since 't is impossible to arrive at the end , without the means or way that leads to it . the reader may know that this very discourse , in substance , was propos'd to him many years ago by a worthy lady , of whose sincerity i believe himself does not doubt . he made a rambling discourse of his own against it , unappliable to any proposition in it . the lady , having a high opinion of dr. st's parts , judg'd it impossible a man of his learning should not be able to give an answer to a few lines in so long a time ; not reflecting how connected truth hampers an adversary , and is perfectly unanswerable : so she prest vehemently for a second & a distinct answer . after some tedious expectation he sends another , more insignificant , if possible , than the former . which seen , and the lady now satisfied that he ( upon whom she most rely'd ) had done his utmost , she alter'd her judgment ; upon no other inducement than the seeing plainly that his principles resolv'd all certainty of faith finally into the private spirit : the drs reflecter was set on , like an unexperienc't perdu souldier , to combat it with a distinct answer : but alas ! he was shown to falter or falsify in every particular . this ill success , made the dr. grow wary in speaking to any particular part of it ; but thought it safest here to stand aloof , and throw stones at distance , instead of grappling with it neerer hand . his answer is , that it proceeds upon two false suppositions , and overthrows the possibility of any rule of faith. my first false supposition is , that there is no certainty without infallibility . no true or absolute certainty , good dr. for , as for your morall certainty it may be fallible enough . i must confess i hate such nonsense as to say [ i am perfectly certain of a thing yet peradventure i am deciev'd . ] the word [ absolute ] signifies perfect ; and certainty , if true , is taken from the natures of the objects or things without us ; and if they stand perfectly engag'd by a true knowledge of them , they would not be what they are , if when we truly conceive them as they are , our conception or iudgment of them can be false , that is , if it be not , in that particular , infallible . this is plain sense , and told him long ago . it has been demonstrated also in faith vindicated that true certainty & infallibility were all one . what answers he ? why , he makes as if he had never known or heard of our arguments for it ; but falls to talk of the stoicks marke , epicurus his fooleries : he learnedly mistakes the definition , [ man is a rational creature ] for a demonstration , and dislikes it at the same time . lastly , he tells us many other things the antients held or said ; which are nothing to me , who judge i know what belongs to certainty and resolving of truths into their principles , as well as they did ; and do think them very weak to stand disputing with the perfect scepticks or convincing them by criterions ; because all discourse supposes something certain to build upon , otherwise it might go on endlessly ; that is , would be to no end ; and the scepticks admitted no certainty of any thing at all . . his application of those preparatives is , that we are to expect no absolute certainty in proving the present faith to be christ's doctrin . and so he hopes to save his own credit for producing none , let the credit of christian faith , and the repute of its being an absolutely certain truth go where it will for him . however , to avoid the shame justly due to such a position , he must cast in some good words to fool his readers ; and , so , he grants that they who use due care and diligence may attain to a true certainty and satisfaction of mind as to the sence of scripture . but he never attempts to show that possibly they may not do so , but may hap to fall into damnable heresies as the socinians do ; who , for ought he or i know , us'd as much care and diligence , as he and his party use . again , what means satisfaction of mind ? is faith ever a jot more certain or true because some may be satisfy'd it is ? are not the socinians as well satisfy'd in mind that christ is not god , as the dr. is that he is god ? moreover ; if the argument he brings to prove his faith to be christ's true doctrin , does not conclude , 't is a thousand to one that acute and intelligent men will find the flaw in it : and what can those men do in that case , so they be true to their reason , the only light they can yet guide themselves by ? must they assent that his faith came from christ , when they see that , notwithstanding all the proof he brings for it , it may not be christ's , and hazard to embrace that doctrin for his faith which may , for any thing they know , have the father of lyes for its author ? they must suspend then in that case , and justify themselves by alledging that the best arguments , the most learned christians bring to prove it , conclude nothing ; nay 't is to be fear'd they will disgrace the faithfull as a company of fops , for believing upon weak grounds ; and , by showing them such , lay a just scandall upon the christian church for pretending to hold what christ taught , when as yet none in it are able to prove it was his doctrin . and how would they laugh christians out of countenance , if , proceeding on dr st's short grounds , they should only show them a well-attested book containing those doctrines , without ascertaining absolutely the true sense of it , when as only that sense was the doctrine of faith ; and , which is worse , when they saw multitudes of numerous sects at perpetuall and irreconcileable variance about that sense ! the true rule of faith then must be such as sets faith above any peradventure of not being christ's true doctrin , and so , secure all who rely on it , how weak soever , from being deceiv'd or in an error ; and , withall , it must be such as intelligent men , seeking for assurance of christ's faith , may be satisfy'd it is able to conclude it to be such , and the more learned faithfull evince to doubters and convince opposers , that the faith held now by themselves and the church is the self-same that christ and his apostles taught at first . but dr st. dares not affirm any of this of his rule of faith ; therefore his pretended rule is none . his instance of true certainty attainable without infallibility in that point of faith , viz. that iesus was the true messias , is partly answer'd in my fourth catholique letter ; and his alledging it has one strange inadvertence in it , which i wonder he was not aware of , which is , that the proof of it depended on the interpretation of scripture . he had it seems forgot that to manifest himself to be the true messias , foretold by the prophets , was the main point of our saviours doctrin ; and that he did miracles to attest that doctrin , and make himself known to be that person ; which miracles were infallible marks that that doctrine of his in that point was true. and , when the dr. produces miracles to abet his private interpretations of scripture , then he may have a fair pretence to lay aside the publick interpretation of the church . again , he is quite out as to the subject of his discourse : for tho' it was a point of faith in the jewish law that a messias was to come ; yet that this very person , iesus christ , was to be that messias , was no point of faith among them ; and god's providence , we see , took a far better way to make it out than private interpretations of the scripture ; unless he thinks miracles , no more effectual nor more certain than private interpretations are . what insignificant nothings this man brings for his choice arguments , and what pains he takes in the worst cause in the world , viz. to maintain that christian faith needs not to be absolutely certain ? and this , for no other reason ( for 't is every christian's interest it should be so ) but because his bad principles can afford him no argument to prove it to be such . . his pretence of my second false supposition , ( viz. that a rule of faith , according to me must be a mechanical rule , and not a rational ) is weak beyond expression . every schollar knows ( his friend dr. t. particularly who took the same way and us'd the same expressions , rule of faith. p. . ) that metaphors are translated from materiall to intellectual things , in regard we have no genuin conceptions of these later ; ( and indeed , most of the language of christianity is made up of such expressions , ) whence we can argue , by analogy , from the one to the other . the word [ rule ] is one of those metaphoricall words : and , hence we say that , as a material rule is that by which if we draw our pen , it directs us to make a right line ; so , the rule of faith , being intended by god to direct us to truth , will lead those right who follow it and regulate themselves by it . does not this metaphor look a little more proper , and the discourse upon it hang better together than his likening scripture to a purse ? yet he utterly dislikes it , and tells the reader i falsly suppose the rule of faith must be a mechanicall or carpenters rule with all its dimensions fixt ; and denies that himself supposes it to be such a materiall or mechanicall rule : nor any man sure that were not stark mad. again , do we here meddle with its dimensions or how much is of faith , as he did when he spoke of his rule ? the straightness of the draught , preserving us from the obliquity of errour , is the only point we aim at . next , he denies there is any such intellectuall rule , because there may be mistakes in the vnderstanding and applying it , and therefore care and diligence and impartiality are requir'd , else men may miss . how ? miss tho' they follow it ? then it self was not straight ; and , so , no rule : for the very notion of a rule is to be a thing that has a power to regulate or direct us right , or keep the understanding that follows it from missing ; and to follow it is all the application it can need to do its effect . whence , all the care and diligence and impartiality he speaks of , must be employ'd in seeing they do indeed follow it : for none of these can help or hinder the rule in its power of directing ; since it had this of it self , independently of the persons . but his rule , tho' all these ( as far as we mortalls can discern ) be us'd by the socinians in the following it , still suffers those carefull , and diligent and impartiall followers of it to err in faith ; therefore 't is no rule of faith. but 't is mighty pretty to observe that when he is pincht with plain sense he ever and anon runs to the old philosophers ; who he says , would have laugh'd at me for applying a materiall rule to intellectuall things . sure he 's not well awake . i draw a metaphor indeed from a materiall rule to an intellectuall one , and then apply that intellectual rule to intellectuall things ; but i know none so mad as to apply a materiall rule to intellectuall things ; unless he thinks i am measuring faith by a taylors yard , or finding out the right sense of scripture by a ruler and a ruling pen. . but , why presbyterians and socinians ? this insinuation ( says he ) has as much folly as malice in it , and makes as tho' wee of the church of england were socinians in those points , viz. the trinity and godhead of christ. god forbid i should be so injurious to them . i do assure him and them faithfully i intended it as a piece of justice to them ; and put in presbyterians instead of protestants because i had reason to hope those private-spirited principles were none of theirs , and that divers of their eminent writers had own'd the universall tradition and practice of the church for their rule of interpreting scripture : and i have some ground to think they might in time have profest it publickly , had not dr. st's irenicum-doctrines * fill'd that church with men of no steady principles — and made luke warm persons flock into it corrupting it's body , — by which means there have been in the church of england so few church-of-england men. but , why so cholerick ? why such wincing and kicking ? i do assure him i did not think i had in the least toucht him . if he be so over-apprehensive and angry withal , i fear he has done himself more wrong in taking it to himself than i ever intended him . again , what means he by [ wee of the church of england ? ] i am told by a hearty member of it , and one who owns his name too , ( how true it is let the dr's conscience look to it ) that * he is contented to sit and sing in the bearing branches of that church , so long as he fills his pockets ; but , when the gathering time is over , it is to be cut down as that which cumbereth the ground . by which he sees that he must either clear himself by a candid and full retractation of his ill principles , or he will have no title to the word [ wee . ] but we are come forwards to his farther defence of his rule , or rather to his overthrowing the absolute certainty of christian faith ; in order to which he asks , how can reason be certain in any thing , if men following their reason can mistake ? very easily . because reason is a faculty or a power , apt to be actuated by true or false principles ; and , accordingly , 't is determinable to truth or falshood . but , if reason follow any maxim , taking it to be a principle to such a thing , and yet errs in that thing , then that pretended principle is no true principle . yet , says he , men following the rules of arithmetick may mistake in casting up a summ. and can he seriously think that a man who casts it up false , does not decline , while he thus mistakes , from arithmetical rules ? may he not with as good sense say that two and three do not make five ? for all rules of computation hang together by the same necessity . in a word , his instance falters in the third proposition , viz. that two who have made use of the same way differ at least a hundred in casting up the sum. which is false ; and by altering the terms irregularly , he hinders any conclusion from following . false , because , no two men can differ in a sum , unless they wrong or abuse the rules of computation . irregular ; because , instead of the words [ who take that way ] found in his second proposition and in our discourse , he coggs in the words [ make use of that way ] which are not so express in sence as the word [ take ] is , which imports following whither it leads , or making a right use of it . and it would have been too palpably absurd to say a man takes a way who leaves it ; as an ill-reckoner must needs leave the true rules of arithmetick . but those who both take and follow all along the letter of scripture interpreted by their private selves , and this to their power , and are skilfull in languages & in comparing places , do yet go wrong ▪ therefore his way is no way , and his rule is no rule . then follows the triumph over my inconsiderateness in not distinguishing between the rule and its application ; and i tell him the taking it , following it , or holding to it , is the applying it , and all the application it can need . nor shall all his starting holes and tricks ever be able to evade the force of this argument . . his discourse of moral qualifications requisit to the certainty of faith , as to know the sense of the new testament , if apply'd to our present question , amounts to this ; that no man can see the force of a natural medium leading to faith , without humility of mind , purity of heart , prayer to god , sincere endeavours to do god's will , &c. so that for want of a good argument , he has left off disputing , and falls to preaching , tho' he has had but ill success in his guildhall sermon . 't is granted all these are excellent means to purge the will from by-affections ; and , by doing so , to leave the understanding free to see the force of the proof , and thence inferr the truth of what 's prov'd or shewn to our reason . but where 's this proof , where 's this truth all the while ? must we produce such invisible things for open proofs ? if all these moral qualifications be requisit ( as he says ) to make men certain of christ's doctrin , he must prove that himself and all his sober enquirers , which are the members of his private-spirited church , have all these qualifications , e're we or any man living can be certain they have true faith. again , how will he satisfy doubters , and convince acute opposers and adversaries what is the true doctrin of christ ? will the alledging invisible qualifications do the work ? moreover , he is certain of his faith by his rule ; and yet his rule of scripture ascertains none by his doctrin but by vertue of these moral qualifications . these then are either his rule or the best part of it . at least he maintains here they are requisit , and that otherwise scripture is no rule . he must then prove he has these qualifications , or he cannot shew he has any rule , or any faith. in a word , we are disputing as controvertists , and demand open & intelligible proofs ; and he sends us to invisible holes , which only god the searcher of hearts can find out ; and is not this mighty learned ? i wonder how he can pretend to convert any man to christ's true doctrin by these principles . all he can do is to alledge and compare texts to prove it certainly christ's doctrin ; i but , sir , says the other , how shall i be satisfy'd you have humility of mind , purity of heart , &c. without which your self confess you cannot be certain of the true sense of scripture at all ? what art the doctor has to satisfy him in this hard point i know not . but setting the doctor 's faith aside , what provision has he made for the standing visible body of the church to defend and maintain she has christ's true faith ? none in the world by his principles , unless she can prove she has all these moral qualifications . so that all is left to each private man's breast ; and , if he has but this good conceit of himself , that he is endow'd with all those excellent virtues , and fancies that he prays better than all his neighbours , let them be socinians , quakers or what you will , he is certain of his faith meerly by vertue of this self-conceit that he is such a saint ; since by dr. st's principles without firm assurance that he is thus requisitly qualify'd , he can never have any assurance at all of his faith. might he not as well have told us in one word , that himself and all his friends are pure saints , and know themselves to be so , and therefore they are certain they have these rare qualifications , and by them assurance of the sense of scripture , or christ's doctrin ; but that all who do not think as they do , want those qualifications , are of the wicked and children of darkness , and so can never have any light to know whether they have christ's true doctrin or not ? this then is the rare resolution of dr. st's faith. i expected he should produce clear arguments as became a controvertist , and he alledges the most hidden means in the world as becomes an enthusiast . . yet the force of truth is so great that it obliges him to confess that the right way will certainly bring men to their iourneys end if they continue in it . i subsume ; but the letter of scripture interpretable by private judgments does not bring the socinians to their end , that is , to know surely what christ and his apostles taught , tho' they continue in it ; whence i conclude that scripture's letter interpretable by private judgments is not the right way to know surely what christ & his apostles taught . to escape this most evident conclusion which utterly overthrows his whole cause , he starts aside with one [ if ] to the remote end [ salvation ] whereas the end i spoke of in my discourse which he is now answering , was expressly , to know assuredly christ's doctrin : then after a second [ if ] he tells us scripture was not design'd as an infallible way to know the truth on falshood of particular opinions by . what have we to do with opinions ? we speak of points of faith , and instanc't expressly in the blessed trinity and the godhead of christ. are these with him but opinions ? indeed , i have reason to doubt that all points of faith are but opinions with him , nay he ought to doubt they are or may be worse than opinions , viz. heretical falshoods , unless he thinks himself absolutely certain of his moral qualifications ; for 't is those , it seems , must do the deed , when all arguments fail . as for infallibility , there was no such word in my discourse , and he ought to answer my argument in the words i put it ; and not to start into such evasions and logomachies . tho' the allowing of natural infallibility has been prov'd against him by reason and authority of those even of his own church , he never answers it , but barely says over again , there is no such thing as infallibility in mankind but by immediate divine assistance . yet he had the boldness or forgetfulness to say , p. . that if this be not catholick doctrin , then i am infallibly certain i. s's letters are far from being catholick in their sense . it seems than either some men are infallible , for seriously i take dr st. to be a man ; or he fancies himself to be something above the herd of mankind ; or else sticks not at the blasphemy to entitle the blessed spirit of peace to have inspir'd him with such a quarrelsome falshood . . he discourses against tradition as 't is practical ; but has he said any thing against it as 't is oral ? the force of which to clear christ's sense delivered down in the church consists in catechizing , preaching , dilating upon the points , and explicating themselves at large ; replying to difficulties , and accommodating their discourse to all the learners exigences ; all which is found in the living voice of the church and her pastours , ( as * i shew'd him at large ) and none of it , in the letter in a book . what answers he to common sense and to his own experience too when he instructs others ? why he puts us off still with this frigid cuckoo answer , that he is of another opinion , that writing is as plain as speaking ; and that words written have as much ( he ought to have said as clear ) sense in them as words spoken . which , apply'd to our case is most palpable nonsense , and makes all explications frivolous , and all catechizers and commentators upon scripture ridiculous . the force i put in the practicalness of tradition is , that , supervening to the oral delivery , or being consonant to it , it confirms it , and makes it more visible . but he combats the practicalness of it consider'd alone ; and so impugns his own willfull mistake . but what says he to my discourse ? he alledg'd that tradition might come down in common equivocal words , and so deliver no determinate sense . i * reply'd that 't is inconsistent with the nature of mankind to mean nothing by the words they use , especially in tenets they were to be sav'd by ; therefore the body of the church had some meaning or other of those words , [ christ is the son of god , ] and [ christ's body is really in the sacrament : ] but this meaning or notion could not be a common or general one , in regard , no notion can be common to god & a creature , to the substance of christs body , & to the substance of bread , much less to that sacred substance , and some accidents or qualities : therefore there could not come down any such common notion , by means of those words ; wherefore , there must have descended some particular notion of each point , determining the signification of the words to one sense or the other . this was the true force of my discourse . i do still pretend it demonstrable , and let him answer it when he can ; for , did he know the consequences it will draw after it , he would think it worth his while . he 's at his old logick again , which is to bring an instance against the conclusion , and is very brisk that it overthrows my demonstration . and what says his instance ? it says the corinthians and artemonites understood by those words , that christ was only an adoptive son , that is a creature ; which is as much as to say , they understood them in a particular sense , which is all i there pretended . and , so , his instance is , as he says truly , unlucky ; but 't is to himself , not to mee ; for it makes good my words , and instead of overthrowing , confirms my discourse that men must have understood some particular sense by those words ; and our learned dr is so weak as to think , that , when what he brings for an answer is so evidently for me , it makes against me . as for their pleading tradition for their sense ; surely he means a private tradition from some former hereticks , and not the publick tradition of the christian church ; or that their heretical tenets were immediately deliver'd by that united body of christians ; for the manifest falshood of this would have been confuted by experience and have sham'd the alledgers : nor could the church , in that case , have condemn'd them , since they spoke her sense . but the good dr mistook the pretence of two or three quibbling hereticks for the vniversal tradition of the church ( as wicked an error as it was possibly to stumble upon ) & then triumphs how rarely his instance has answer'd my demonstration . and thus ends his reply to my short discourse ; which having done , he assures the reader he has fully answer'd my main argument against his rule of faith. whereas he has not so much as touch't any single proposition in it ; & trifled , or done worse , even in the ridiculous odd way he has taken to answer it . which confirms me more then ever 't is past his skill to hurt it , and even beyond his courage to grapple with it . . his contradicting himself is still urg'd upon him unless he can shew that true or absolute certainty does not secure those who have it in any thing , from being deceived in that thing . again , in his th principle he said there needed no infallible society of men either to attest or explain the scripture . i reply'd , that if it be fallible , we cannot by it be more than fallibly certain , and we can have no absolute certainty from a fallible testimony . this seems very plain ; for how should a man be absolutely or perfectly certain of a thing by that very testimony which not being perfectly certain may perhaps deceive him in that very thing ? his first answer is , that [ he understands no such thing as infallibility in mankind , but by immediate divine assistance . ] he understands ? is that an answer ? does he understand how to answer our many arguments to prove it ? by his not taking notice of them , we are to understand , and conclude he does not. again he declares that in that principle of his he meant there needed no infallibility by divine assistance ; and he utterly denies natural infallibility ; whence 't is manifest he allows no certainty at all but fallibility . his faith is in a fine case in the mean time . he must shew i say that fallibility in the testimony can ground absolute certainty of the thing attested , and this , tho' a man sees that the testimony and himself who relies on it may be in an error , before he can make either the letter or the book of scripture , absolutely certain , by tradition or human testimony , which he maintains here is fallible . can a man think or say interiourly , [ i am absolutely ( or perfectly ) certain of a thing peradventure . when that very [ peradventure ] hinders his certainty from being absolute or perfect ? what answers he to this plain evidence ? or how shews he that a seen fallibility is able to beget absolute certainty ? why , first , he says , if by fallible certainty i mean this and that , &c. i mean ? why i mean nothing by it but that 't is a wicked contradiction . i mean the same by it as i would by a hirco-cervus , a four-squar'd triangle , green scarlet , or whatever such desperate words one may put together to compound strong nonsense . how should i mean any thing by a compound of two such words which the goodness of rational nature , and the aversion which our understanding power has to contradiction , has forbid any man to use ever since the creation ? did the dr. or any man living hear any mortal man when he is about to express his certainty of a thing , say [ i am fallibly certain of it ? ] yet , how oft has he heard them say , i am infallibly certain of such a thing ? whence were the word [ infallibly ] a different notion from certain , or difference added to it as to its genus , it would nay must admit the opposite difference [ fallibly ] as is done in all such cases : which since it does not , without straining nature , and the language of mankind , 't is not a different notion , but the same with true certainty ; and therefore in proper speech true certainty and infallibility are both one : yet , after he has thus abus'd the language of all mankind , he has the confidence to tell me i make use of those words in an improper and unusual sense . this farther appears by this , that our speculators use to add moral or some other such epithet to it , which are of a diminishing signification , when they would express it's deficiency from true certainty . this logical demonstration to prove certainty and infallibility to be the same was alledg'd in faith vindicated , p. . but we must excuse such slight talkers from even attempting to give an answer becoming a scholar to any such close proofs ; tho' it has been prest upon him in errour non-plust , p. . and upon dr tillotson in reason against ra●●●ery from p. . to p. . he only tells us what he does own , does not own , and such sleeveless sayings ; that is , he only says over again his own crude tenets with the formality of a distinction or two ; and places his main hopes to uphold his credit , not in the strength of his answers , but in the weakness or partiality of his readers . the upshot is , he owns clearly he has only fallible grounds for his faith having been taught by christ ; which is to assert and maintain ( for it is not to be suppos'd he will allow any others to have surer grounds than his own ) that all christian faith may be false , and the grounds themselves , in more regards than one , most perfect nonsence . . he proceeds next to give us his notion of absolute certainty in these words : [ when the evidence is the highest which in point of reason the thing is capable of , then there is that which i call absolute certainty . these words [ which i call ] are very emphatical , and precisely true ; for no man living but himself and dr. t. that i know of ever call'd it so . for , suppose the evidence be but very slight , and the thing , as propos'd to us , or in our circumstances , can give us no more , will this slight glimmering evidence make us absolutely certain of it ? again , does he mean in point of true reason inform'd by the best maxims to direct and establish it ? this is conclusive evidence or demonstration , and the conclusion thus deduc't is infallibly true , because the maxim which legitimates the consequence , is , as all logicians know , infallibly certain , being a principle of our understanding , and self-evident ; is it this he means ? no : he does not like conclusive evidence in the grounds of his faith by no means . to come closer , i ask him , does he mean that true knowledge , conformable to the thing , or object , fixes him in that certainty , or ( in great part ) his own aiery apprehension ? if such a knowledge , then , since none can truly know what is not , that knowledge is as impossible to be false , or is as infallibly true , as 't is that the thing must be what it is : and , if no such knowledge grounds his certainty , how is it an absolute or perfect one ? can his apprehending it so make it so ? can a man be absolutely certain of a falshood , because he apprehends that falshood to be a truth , or that a thing is so when 't is not so ? if not , then 't is only it 's being so which can be the ground of absolute certainty , and justify that assent , and then that assent is infallible , for a thing is infallibly what it is . he 'l say he took it to be so , and that 's enough . but , to omit that his taking a thing to be so neither makes nor proves it to be so , i press farther : when he took it to be so , did he take it right , or did he mistake it ? if he took it right , then again his knowledge , and certainty grounded on that knowledge , are both infallible ; for his knowledge when he took it right could not but be conformable to the thing , and the thing is infallibly as it is . if he took it wrong or mistook it , and yet be absolutely certain of it , then again there may be absolute certainty of a falshood , or that a thing is so which is not so : which is a rare kind of certainty indeed , especially for the ground of his faith ; and posterity no doubt will owe much to his memory for the invention . 't is left then that he must say he did not know whether he took it right or wrong , but apprehended he took it right . in which case ( to omit that this apprehending or thinking the evidence so strong as to determin assent , is the second kind of certainty he assigns here before he comes to absolute certainty ) i ask how he can possibly think himself certain a thing is such , when he sees he does not know whether he be mistaken in it or no ? and how a judgment that a thing absolutely is , and a judgment that it may not be for any thing he knows , can be consistent together in an intellectual nature , without destroying the first principle of our understanding , viz. that 't is not possible the same thing should at once be and not be . . i have not done with this new invented absolute certainty of his . it must spring he says from the highest evidence which in point of reason the thing is capable of . where every expression is indeterminate and ambiguous . suppose ( as i urg'd lately ) the thing be not capable of any clear evidence ( as himself supposes there is not for such or such a doctrin to have been taught by christ ) why must he needs assent at all ? why does he not suspend ? god has endow'd us with a faculty of doing this , as a bridle to keep us from precipitation , and to preserve us from running into errour ; & why should we not use it , but expose our selves to run headlong into mistakes ; both prejudiciall to our nature , whose perfection is truth ; and pernicious , in its consequences , to the conduct of our lives ? again , certainty , taken from the thing ( as he says this is ) signifies a determination of the mind by means of the object , and is the genuin effect of some kind of evidence ; and , therefore , absolute or perfect certainty ought to be the effect of perfect evidence : nor is any evidence a perfect one , unless it concludes . now he does not like conclusive evidence , and so he ought to renounce absolute certainty . 't is as difficult to guess what he means here by those words [ in point of reason , ] true reason knows no methods but this : to assent if the thing be clear , and to suspend if it be not ; and , to conclude or argue being the proper act of reason straining after truth , what 's not concluded is not clear , and therefore not to be accepted for an absolute truth or assented to as such ; the summ then ( to come close to our present question ) is , that , absolute certainty of such a doctrine's having been taught by christ must either be built on true evidence of the grounds for it , and then it cannot consist with deception , and so is infallible : or it is not ; and , then indeed it may sometimes come to iustify a great propension , hope or deeming that 't is so ; or , if i conceive it to be of small concern , an unexamining letting it pass for such , but it can never iustify an absolute assent . see more of this subject , and a perfect confutation of this wild assertion in * errour-nonplust and * reason against raillery . after many rambling sayings of his own he falls to speak of putting an end to controversies , especially , about certainty and fatality . what we have to do with fatality i know not ; but i believe he heartily wishes an end of this fatall controversy ; concerning certainty ; for he is in a miserable ross about it ; being driven now to declare whether he will deny first principles , or renounce his vnprincipled doctrin . the best way i can invent to end all controversies , is this , that , since controvertists are disputants , and are to produce their arguments ; which are good for nothing nor can ever end controversies unless they conclude , those who renounce conclusive evidence and instead of it bring invisible motives & qualifications , may be expos'd and turn'd out of the lists , as being , even by their own confession insignificant talkers and endless brabblers . his wrangle about light and darkness , christ and belial is spoke to in my second catholique letter . let him shew that his rule , scripture interpreted by private judgments , does not patronize heresy as well as faith , ( which he will never do ) and we will be content to acquit him from that horrid blasphemy of making light and darkness very consistent ; and christ the author of our holy faith and belial the father of heresy and lies , very good friends ; of which wicked doctrin , 'till he does this , he stands indicted . . i alledg'd that scripture being the common rule to him and all hereticks , the particular or distinguishing rule must be their own private iudgments interpreting scripture . does he deny this , or shew my discourse faulty by assigning any other that particularizes or distinguishes them ? no , neither . what does he then ? why he sends me to the old philosophers to learn logick . and i tell him with many thanks , i know none , except aristotle , a competent master for me. next , he makes sense to be a rule of iudging , that is an intellectual rule : which i deny : for the rule to any thing is the immediate light to judge of any thing , and multitudes of intervening knowledges are requisit to inform us when the advertisements of our senses are right ; as is evident in the fallaciousness of sense in a stick seeming crooked in water , the bigness of things seen at distance , and innumerable other particulars . but i ought to distinguish between the rule of iudgment , and the iudgment made according to that rule . and so i do , if that be all . for the rule is the informer , & my iudgment the thing inform'd : but yet if my judgment follow the information and still go wrong , my informer was no good informer . the evidence of this , and the propension of uncorrupted nature to believe pastours , fathers and teachers , and those who were wiser than themselves in things they were ignorant of , did ( i told him ) make the generality of those out of the church follow the way of tradition of their own church ; and not regulate themselves in the choice of their tenets by their private judgment of discretion working upon scripture's letter ; as is evident in whole nations ( as denmark ) meeting in one particular belief , and whole sects agreeing in the very judgment of their respective leaders ; whence the sense they make of scripture as themselves understand it , is not their rule . first , he quotes a decree of the church of england , that nothing is to be requir'd of any man to be believ'd as faith but what 's read in scripture or may be prov'd by it . but this makes against himself , unless he thinks the generality , that is , the layity of that church esteem themselves more able to judge of the sense of what 's read in scripture , or to prove all the highest points of faith by it , than their pastours and church-governours are ; for otherwise nature will and ought to incline them to believe their judgment rather than their own in that affair , which is to follow the way of tradition . indeed , i must confess that by the doctor 's principles every one of his sober enquirers ought to preferr his own judgment of discretion above the church'es ; but what he says is one thing , what the dictates of honest nature teaches mankind is another . 't is confest , the layity of each congregation judges the sentiments of their leaders to be agreeable to scripture ; but i affirm withall that not one in ten thousand , when he comes at age , lays aside prejudice , and setts himself to consider anew by his scanning the letter whether his leaders told him right , or presumes of the competency of his own knowledge to judge or determin whether they understood scripture in the right sense or no. he talks to us indeed of helps , and how they call in the old interpreters of the church , and desire them to use their own reason , &c. but every man sees that few or none stand indifferent 'till they have us'd all these helps ; but undoubtingly accept that very faith in which they were educated : and so they continue ; 'till the discoursing or reading those of a contrary opinion , unsettles them and put them into doubts . besides if those helps he talks of are not secure from erring themselves as to what they help others in , they may help them to misunderstand the sense of scripture in the highest points of faith , and so help them to be hereticks . and yet these are all the best helps his principles can help them to ; for he assures us and maintains stoutly by affirming them all to be fallible in what they are to help us , that all his helps may be deceiv'd in that very thing in which they are to help others : they may indeed according to him , give a strong guess at what is christ's doctrin , but that 's all ; for he allows none to be absolutely certain of the sense of scripture , but only of the letter . he proceeds after a strange rate and talks of opinions , doubtfull and obscure places ; but avoids still to come up to those high points of faith , particularly those of a trinity and christ's godhead , in which he knows i instanc't . then he blames my logick , for not distinguishing between the rule of faith and the help to understand it . and my logick remembers its respects to his no logick , and sends him back word , that since an intellectual rule to such a thing is an immediate light or means to know that thing as his friend dr. t. has told him , rule of faith ▪ p. . and is purposely fram'd to give us that knowledge , nay essentially ordain'd to that end , 't is a contradiction to say it needs another thing to lend it clearness , in order to give us christ's sense ; for then this other thing would be clearer than it as to that particular effect ; and , so , this not the other would be the true rule of faith. yet he will needs prove this contradiction true , and that it may be a rule and yet not have power to regulate without the help of another ; and , by what argument will he prove it ? oh , he can prove things by better means than arguments . he has an instance still at hand , either when he is prest too close , with anothers arguments or wants one of his own . these instances are good serviceable drudges and are ever ready to do all his jobbs ; and yet i doubt his instance brought to prove a contradiction , must it self be of the same chimericall family . let 's see 't is this , that a nurse teaches children to spell and read the new testament , & so by degrees to understand christ's doctrin ; and yet the faith of those persons is not resolv'd into this help , of the nurse's teaching but into the new testament it self as the ground of their faith. i must confess i extreamly admire at this drs confidence , and no less at his imprudence that he does not rather not write at all then perpetually put such shams as these upon his reader . are we speaking of all remote helps whatsoever , or are we speaking only of a help for the rule to do its proper effect , which is to give us christ's sense or our faith ? god and nature has helpt us with a rational being , eyes , and brains ; conversation or masters have helpt us with skill in the language in which the letter of scripture is deliver'd , and tradition has helpt us with the right books and copy of scripture ; do any of these concern our present enquiry ? are not these all presuppos'd to his rule ? the only question is what help is necessary to give his rule ( the rest being all presuppos'd ) the power to regulate us in knowing the sense of that book or our faith , as to those spiritual and most important articles ? to do this being the proper effect of his rule , and , a thing not being what it should be , or is pretended to be , unless it have a power in its self to do its proper effect , ( since it 's essence was ordain'd for it ) hence i affirm it must need no help to do this , but must have it of it self ; and therefore if scripture's letters have not of it self clearness enough to give those who are coming to faith the requisite certainty or knowledge of what 's its true sense in those dogmaticall points , 't is no rule of faith. this is the only point , and therefore must only be omitted : what 's this to a nurse's teaching to read ? or what 's her teaching to the immediate and certain light to know christs sense in those main articles ? his friend dr. t. goes ( by chance ) a little more consonantly , and confesses the substance of this discourse of mine , by allowing that the letter of scripture must be sufficiently plain , even in those high points i mention ( rule of faith , p. . . ) but it seems , that upon second thoughts fearing to be pinch't hard upon that point , they have since that time , chang'd their measures . . put case then one of dr. st's flock should say to him ; doctor , this very rule you bid me follow , to my best iudgment tells me you have err'd in holding the true godhead of christ ; nay , suppose he should say the same to the whole church of england , what could he or that church either , say to such a man according to his principles ? they can only propose and direct , and that 's the utmost they ought to do ; and , if he likes not their proposal & direction , they ought to let him alone , nay commend him for sticking so close to his rule , as he understands it , without fearing the face of man. for 't is the greatest injustice and tyranny in the world to punish a man temporally , or ( which is worse ) by ecclesiastical censures for following sincerely this rule of faith. besides , who can tell but this man is better stock't with dr. st's morall qualifications and inward light than his judges and pastours are ? and then to vex such a saint is to fight against god : and therefore the scabb'd sheep must be let alone to run astray or infect the flock ; let the church & her government go where they will. now , who sees not that these principles must shatter the church in pieces , fill her with a multitude of bedlam sects , and utterly overthrow church-government ? but what would i. s. do with such a man ? why , first i would endeavour to dispossess him of that luciferian spirit of pride , which such wicked principles have tainted him with , and win him to a rational humility by representing how all mankind in their several affairs seek out one more skill'd than themselves and use their best reason in pitching upon him , and then trusting him in things themselves are ignorant in . i would shew him how the order of the world , the commands of god , and his known duty , do all oblige him to believe the church in such matters rather than his own private interpretations ; i would endeavour to shew him that the preservation of these necessary orders engages god's providence to assist his church and keep her from erring in faith , rather then private men. i would show him that , since the only thing he doubts of is to know what christ taught , & that god has left some way to make us sure of his true doctrin , he must first find out such a way that , if men follow'd it , would secure them from errour in that particular . nor would it be hard to demonstrate to him that * tradition is such a way , and that scripture's letter interpretable by private judgment is not that way . i would shew him how impossible 't is the body of the church should have unanimously deserted that way ; and , amongst other things i would inform him how weakly dr st. had defended his own rule and impugn'd ours ; and , lastly , how he and others who follow'd another way , have been forc't to grant that all the main points of christian doctrin may be false for any thing they know . these and such like discourses , i hope , would at first startle him , and at length cure him , if he were not too deeply tainted with enthusiasm , or a high opinion of his own moral qualifications and divine assistances : for , if he were , he is got beyond the reach of reason and humane discourse ; and is not to be helpt by any thing under a miracle , perhaps not by that neither . . he seems to deny people the liberty to interpret scripture against the teaching church . but his discourse sounds hollow when he comes to show he does so . some sleight thing he says about the sense of the teaching church in the best and purest ages ; but not a word of what they owe to the present church , which is their proper and immediate instructress and governess ; by which discourse it should seem he holds the church of england none of the best nor purest . the main point is , whether , if , after having consulted the primitive church , and consider'd what grounds she brought for her doctrin and decrees , the enquirer still likes his own interpretation better , he is in that case to submit his private judgment to the decrees of that or any church ; and how the church is to look upon him in case his private interpretation leads him into a flat heresy ? these are the true points , and tests of dr. st's principles and yet undiscover'd consequences ; but these are slubber'd over , or rather , indeed , never toucht . yet he complains of me , for being obscure ; when as 't is acknowledg'd he writes clearly , but 't is clearly from the point , nor has any packing the cards , &c. he says too , that 't is aukward reasoning , to say nothing but infallibility will content him now . pray , which is more aukward ? if the judges acknowledge themselves fallible , ( in which case nothing can be said to be true that is held upon their testimony ) then he allows them very much authority , but not upon other terms . but he is high in choler against me for saying he has an aversion against the churches intermeddling in matters of faith ; and imputes it either to great ignorance or a malicious design to expose him to church governors . but his comfort is he pities my ignorance and despises my malice . this is stately and great . i do assure him my only design is to oppose such principles as leave all to the fanatick phrenzy of every private interpreter ; and till he satisfies the world better that his principles are not guilty of this enormity , i shall still oppose him let him huff never so high . the point is , how does he clear himself ? why , he says he disputes not against church-authority in due proposing matters of faith ; certainly church-authority is mightily oblig'd to him . a genuin and learned son of the church of england , speaking of this very doctrin of his , tells him , that * proposals of their own nature are so far from inferring an authority to command their reception , that they rather imply a power in those to whom they are propos'd , at discretion to reiect them ; and so , in the issue gives the authority to the people . which words contain the full sense of my discourse here against the dr and his beloved sober enquirer . why is he then so high against me for exposing him , when those of the church of england have already expos'd him more than i have done ? this is no great sign either of ignorance or malice , when persons who are otherwise of different judgments and communions , do center in the same opinion of his doctrin as destructive of church-government . but 't is yet more pleasant , that he will not promise he will not dispute against church-authority even in this due proposing matters of faith , but with a proviso , that every man is to judge for his own salvation . as much as to say , if the church will be so sawcy or so wicked as not to let my sober enquirers alone to interpret scripture as they list , or hold what seems to their wise worships to be the sense of it , ( which , with him , is judging for their own salvation ) but will be censuring or excommunicating them for hereticks , if they hap to err in christ's godhead for example , or any other such point , then church-authority have at you ; for i tell you plainly if you do this i shall and will dispute against you . it would be worth our knowing too what the pretty cautious words [ due proposing ] means . there seems to lurk some hidden mystery in that little monasyllable [ due ] which may come to help the sober enquirers with an evasion from submitting to church-authority , or obeying it , in case it misbehaves it self unduly , or grows so malapert as to restrain them in their licentious prerogative of interpreting scripture as their gifted fancy inspires them . it looks oddly , and seems to have some ambidextrous meaning in it ; but we will hope the best till he comes to unfold it . now , because honourable company is creditable to those who are highly obnoxious , he names st. chrysostom , st. austin , st. thomas of aquin , and bellarmin as of his opnion , but with the same sincerity as he pretended all divines of both churches , and even my self to hold all necessary points may be found by every sober enquirer without the churches help ; as may be seen hereafter § . . 't is indeed the general opinion of the fathers , that we are not always heard when we pray for temporal things , or even spiritual goods for others ; but that our request is always granted when we ask spiritual goods for our selves . but then , 't is ever understood with this restriction , that we must not make our suit to have knowledge or virtue by extraordinary ways , and neglect the ordinary methods laid already by god's providence to attain those good gifts . our question then being of understanding those difficult places of scripture which contain the main articles of our christian belief , and whether they can better attain to the sense of scripture with unerring certainty by their own private judgments , without the churches help , or by the churches means , and dr st's principles asserting the former method , mine the later , i do affirm , that none of those authors hold with him , but would condemn his tenet for heresy . he quotes none of the places except bellarmin , who speaks not of persons looking for faith in scripture's letter as to those points , but of the faithfull , praying for wisdom to live well ; and he , as the dr relates it , denies the gift of interpretation ( the dr's way to come to faith ) is to be had by prayer , which is our main point . however , our dr pretends himself wonderfully skillfull in our authors , because he can make a shew of quoting them , tho' it be quite from the purpose . he should have kept an eye to the state of the question , and brought his citations home to it ; but this is not his way . his main art through this whole treatise is to keep that from the readers sight , talk in common , name great authors for his vouchers , but never shew how they savour him by applying them . and then he 's safe , by virtue of a great noise & fine raree shows . he ends with railing , at the rate of a man at his wits end ; i desire him to pacify his spleen , for no man that knows me and my circumstances , does or can think i write to raise my self , or to be caressed ( as he phrases it ) by any man. i will never court any man's favour , or fear his frowns , when i am defending truth . . but the scene is chang'd , all of a sudden , & i am almost asham'd to reflect as it deserves on what follows in his two next paragraphs . 't is so purely a-la-mode of merry andrew ; never did grave man make such a fop of himself . but his reason was nonplust , and his fancy was over-heated , and this must plead his excuse : for what could he do better in such ill circumstances ? to set right what his raillery has so ravell'd ; i declar'd my tenet was , that every man is to use his iudgment of discretion or his reason in finding out a rule which could ascertain him of all the several points taught by christ : since the rule of faith being antecedent to faith , must consequently be the object of pure reason . that by this rule he was to judge for his salvation , and of all controverted points . for , if this rule gave him absolute assurance that all those determinate points were indeed taught by christ , then since he acknowledg'd christ's doctrin to be from god , they were to be held by him to be divine and true ; if it give him no such assurance of this , being in it self fallible , then they are not to be held divine , nor true , nor faith , nor the way to salvation ; since , in that case , they might perhaps be diabolical , false , heresy , and the way to damnation . now no such rule does he assign us , but leaves it to the iudgment of his sober enquirers to find out those determinate points in scripture's letter ; which , in those articles of so profound a sense is obscure to them . our judgment of discretion is to find out a certain light to walk by in those sublime passages , in which the light of our own reason is very dim . his is to do as well as he can in penetrating the sense of the scripture in such high passages , tho' he sees he may fall into error every step . that is , his way is indeed to be a rule to our selves , and scorn to be led by the church , tho' there be all the reason in the world to think her wiser than our selves in that affair . what says the pleasant dr to this ? or how does he make good his judgment of discretion , or overthrow ours ? why , first ; he laughs heartily over and over , that i come closer to take a view of his judgment of discretion after . pages . as if my whole book had been to treat meerly concerning that one point , and i had never handled it till now : whereas his conscience knows , ( but that necessity has forc't him to bid it farewell ) and every reader sees that above forty other points were to be handled as they lay in my way , and that this concerning the iudgment of discretion , was the very last i was to speak to . what pityfull trifling is this ? then comes in the game at cards , blew apron and tub over and over : that i yield to his sober enquirer what he aim'd at ; that i make the fanaticks catholiques , and his sober enquirer a iudge of controversies , and would have him judge without his rule : which is a continu'd series of willfull and ridiculous forgeries : for i allow him to judge of never a point of faith but by his rule , and affirm that he is to find out his rule by his reason or judgment of discretion . but this clear method he casts a mist over all the way ; and , finding that seriousness would gravell him , he has recourse to his beloved and still-assisting friend , drollery . next , he asks , what if the matter propos'd by this certain authority which i have found out by my reason be very much against reason ? and i ask , whether the matter under consideration be the object of naturall reason , or no ? if it be not , then reason is to concern it self in judging of the humane authority of the church attesting it to be christ's doctrin , which is subject to reason ; and not with the other , which is confessedly above reason . he knows i still speak of the high mysteries and articles of our christian belief which are supernaturally reveal'd or taught by christ and his apostles ; and will he have the profound judgment of discretion of his sober enquirers scan them by their reason ? this savors too strong of the socinian . yet he sticks not to say the same , ( that is , natural ) reason helps men to iudge of the matters propos'd by this certain authority . it makes yet worse for his credit , that , whereas i instance all along in the tenets of the blessed trinity and the godhead of christ , he stills recurrs to points necessary to salvation ; by counterposing which he seems to think those mysteries not necessary to salvation . but who set the bounds of reason ? why , god and nature , by alotting reason for its sphere naturall objects ; and by so doing , precluding her from attempting to sound the profound depth of supernatural ones by her shallow line . he is angry that as soon as this certain authority is discover'd , we then cry , good night reason , i have no more use of you . this savours yet more strongly then the former . would he have us , after this certain authority has assur'd us 't is christ's doctrin , still to suspend our belief till we have examin'd the mysteries themselves by our naturall reason ? i am loath to name what this signifies . i omit to insist on his bad logick , shall i say , or want of common sense ; who , tho' a certain authority were suppos'd , yet discourses all along as if the things it proposes may still be false , or need the examination of reason whether they be false or no. but this argues he has not once in his thoughts the notion of true certainty , but means some mock-certainty or probability by that word ; otherwise 't was impossible such a fancy should have a seat in his mind . for the most obvious and common light of reason tells him that what 's truly certain ( as what 's built on a certain authority is , ) cannot be false , nor can need any further scrutiny whether it be or no. . next he asks , are all people capable of this certain reason ? they are , or may be made so according to their pitch , so tradition be rightly represented , and not perverted as it was by him throughout his sermon : for nothing is more sutable to the capacity of every one then is the force of a vast witnessing , authority . and , tho' they were not , yet being in it self certain , it preserves even those who are uncapable of seeing the reason for its certainty , from erring in faith while they rely on it , which his rule does not . he puts questions and gives answers here very kindly for his own behoof ; and from such sleight grounds concludes he may have true faith and be sav'd without finding out this certain authority . the later i leave to god's mercy , which may , i hope , give him the grace to repent his impugning known truths , which with him i fear is too frequent : but he makes himself too liberall a promise of true faith without it . however he expresses it modestly , and only says he may have it ; that is , he may hap to hold right in some points of faith by his private interpretation of scripture , without tradition of the church ; and he may hap to hold twenty heresies . his fifth head is ridiculous ; for 't is a pure folly to talk of believing the scripture , without knowing certainly what the scripture says . let him secure this , and none will refuse to yield a perfect and stedfast belief to what christ has taught us by it . our knowing the sense of it in passages containing dogmatical tenets of faith is the only point between us ; in assigning some certain means to do this , he is dull and flat , or else perfectly silent ; but mighty brisk in what 's nothing to our purpose . his sixth is frivolous , and answer'd with a bare denying that we hold that tradition is only to lead us into the certain sense of scripture . and this he knew before , as he did five hundred things he pretends here unknown to him . and this was but fitting . for had he own'd he knew them and the reason brought for them , he had stood engag'd to answer them : but by seeming still not to know them , he puts us to say our tenets and bring our proofs over and over again ; in the mean he reaps the advantage of gaining time , and coming off dextrously at present . his seventh is the same with the second , and spoken to already . his citing scripture texts has the same fault with better half this whole book ; viz. something is said in common never apply'd to the point in hand , or brought close to it , but left in that raw condition , to make the reader think there is something in it , tho' he knows not well what . our point is , that our judgment of discretion is not to be employ'd about scanning the mysteries of faith by our natural reason , after we have found a certain authority proving them to be christ's doctrin , or interpreting such texts of scripture by our private judgments to gain assurance what is to be held of faith. the first text [ i speak as to wise men , judge ye what i say ] may , for any thing he has shown relate to manners , or to the avoiding idolatry spoken of the verse before , which is known by the light of nature ; or to something relating to or consequent from a point of faith already known , as is intimated in the following verses . of all these they may judge , but none of these comes near our business , as appears by the state of the question . the second text is prove all things . and does he think this can mean , they should consult their natural reason how it lik't the misteries , or rather ( in case that text had indeed related to them ) does it not signify that they should consider well of the grounds why they embrac't them ? the third is , try the spirits whether they are of god. and this is spoken in order to the antient hereticks ; whose spirits they were to try by examining whether they deviated from the doctrin preacht by the apostles ; or , by looking what grounds or motives they produc't to prove their new doctrin to be christ's . the judgment of discretion in this last case we allow ; and the two former are both of them wide of our business , unless the second were meant of examining things by the grounds for them . it were good to dive into the drs thoughts , and get light what it is he would here be at . the apostles ( says he ) allow'd them to make use of their understandings , tho' themselves , the proposers were infallible . what mean these dry common words ? does he mean they were to vnderstand what it was the apostles taught ? this is the duty of every hearer , catholick and protestant , and the very end of all teaching and preaching ; and , so , it does not reach the peculiarity of his iudgment of discretion . does he mean they were to examin whether the apostles were divinely-inspir'd or not ? this was very laudable in them ; for this is to use their reason e're they allow their authority , and is the very judgment of discretion we recommend ; but he is here impugning our judgment of discretion , and so cannot mean thus . he is then contending for a judgment of discretion which shall scan the verity of the points of faith themselves , or the matters propos'd even by a certain authority , by his naturall reason . i am loath to fix a censure upon common words ; but i must tell him that if he means so , and that , tho' we receive the tenets of a trinity and christ's godhead ( for example ) upon a certain authority , we are still to suspend our assent , till our great judgment of discretion shall consider well of the matters propos'd , and reject them if such uncouth articles seem disagreable to natural reason , ( his usefull servant not yet discarded : ) if this be his tenet , as it seems to be , then i must tell him his principles are perfectly socinian . whether he follows those principles in his particular tenets i am not to judge ; but such edging and leaning towards those principles do , i conceive , oblige him to satisfy the world he is not that way affected . . but what if men differ about this certain authority wherein it lies , and how far it extends ? i answer the authority our question proceeds on is the humane authority of the church deriving down christ's faith : nor do i know any catholick who ever impugned that , but one unknown nameless author lominus ; whom here out of his constant love to sincerity he is pleas'd to call [ others . ] but , in case any should differ about it , it being a thing previous to faith , and , therefore , subject to our natural reason , all i can say is , the better reason must carry it . he knows well how many most eminent catholick writers have approv'd and follow'd in their writings the same way of controversy i take . but he is not now in such good circumstances as candidly to acknowledge any thing . he is put to his shifts ; and counterfeit ignorance does him as much service as any of the rest . but how proves he that when we have found a certain authority we must not follow it and rely on it ? plain sense tells us we may and ought . why , he says 't is putting out our eyes , throwing our selves headlong from a precipice , and there 's an end of controversies . is not this mighty learned ? another man would think that a certain authority were the only way to preserve us from all these inconveniences , and keep us from erring , especially in matters only knowable by authority . but our dr has a judgment or discretion of another mold than reason has fram'd for him . in the mean time what answer gives he to my reason for the contrary position , and that the relying on a certain authority is to keep our eyes in our head still ? * [ in doing this we do not at all relinquish our reason , but follow and exercise it ? for , nothing is more rational than to submit to an authority which my reason has told me is abso , lutely certain , in things which the same reason assures me can no other ways be known certainly but by that authority . this seems plain sense , and comprizes the whole point ; and for that very reason he thought it not safe to meddle with it ; but , instead of doing so , to amuse the reader with * seven impertinent discourses of his own ; and thus it is he answers my catholick letters . . hitherto he contented himself to impugn me with false suggestions , nimble avoidances , pretended ignorance of our known and oft-repeated tenet , and with merry conceits ; but now he thunders out his dreadfull indignation against me , with angry viper , venemous froth , spleen , gall , &c. by which he gives us to understand that the place i prest upon was very raw and sore . at the end of my discourse i repeated * his avow'd position , that every sober enquirer may without the churches help find out all necessary points of faith in scripture . this being a paradox , so pestilential in its self , and so pernicious to church-government , and to all the dearest and most sacred concerns of christianity , i could do no less , out my zeal for those best goods , than brand it with these just censures , viz. * that it was the very first principle , nay , the quintessence of all heresy ; fanaticism in the egg ; perfect enthusiasm when hatcht , and downright atheism when fledg'd . this i said , and thus i justify my charge . to make private men competent interpreters of scripture as to all necessary points of christian faith , without the churches help , and yet not to furnish them with any certain means of not erring or mistaking its sense , is the very first principle of all heresy ; for , * non enim natae sunt haereses nisi dum scripturae bonae intelliguntur non bene . no heresy has any other source , but when the scriptures good in themselves are understood in an ill sense . next , let this wild licentious principle , that they need not the churches help to find out all necessary points in scripture , settle in the heads of the mobile , 't is perfectly consequent that they must judge that whatever the church holds contrary to what they conceive is the sense of scripture , is either false or unnecessary ; and in case the church judges that what they hold is a grand heresy , and therefore that the contrary tenet is a necessary point , and therefore subjects them to her censures , they must hate the churches government as the worst of tyrannies that would oblige them to forgo their rule , renounce their faith , and obey man rather than god. in a word , this principle naturally leads them to contemn the church and her pastours , as neither able to help them in their way to faith , nor to govern them in it ; unless the dr means by governing , that the church-officers are to see , that each of them follows their own fancies , and decline not from such tenets ( let them be never so heretical ) as their wise judgment of discretion has thought fit to embrace , which is fanaticism in the height . again , the conceit of this self-sufficiency codling as i may say , in the hot brains of many of those fanaticks , enfranchized thus blessedly from the churches government , dr st. still assuring them they cannot miss of knowing gods will in such points so they but pray for wisdom ; and common sense telling them they are no scholars , nor have this knowledge by humane means ; it follows necessarily that they must think their prayer is heard , and that they have it by divine inspiration . whence they will imagin the holy ghost buzzes truths in their ears like a bee in a box , which is perfect enthusiasm . and. it will come pat to their purpose , and help forward very well , that dr st. when he stood engag'd to shew or produce his proofs that his faithfull have absolute certainty of their faith , that is of the true sense of scripture , confesses plainly no such proofs are producible and recurrs to moral qualifications and many other invisible requisites to give men assurance of it ; which are impossible to be known by human reason , being only knowable by god himself . whence , nature obliging all men to guide themselves by some sure light in things of infinite concern , and all motives that should appear outwardly to reason , being , according to him , cloudy and dark , it directs them necessarily to seek for this sure light within ; and so become enthusiasts . in the mean time not to speak of atheists who are by-standers and confirm'd in their atheism by seeing such bedlam-doings amongst professors of christianity , imbu'd with no better principles than what he gives them ; the more refin'd & ingenious sort of mankind , who are too wise to be led in the dark , & strain their best endeavours to search after solid grounds , by which they may be perfectly assur'd of christs faith , or the sense of scripture , in such points ; & find that none such could be brought by the famous dr st. but that , when he was most highly engag'd to produce his proofs for that most important point , he recurrs still to holes as dark as the private spirit ; what can they do other ( were there no better grounds than his producible ) but conclude that there is no certainty of christian faith at all , and that the greatest professors and writers do by their carriage confess as much ; and thence come to apprehend that religion is a meer cheat to keep up the interest and ambition of those who look for rich livings , and affect to have many followers ; which will bring them to a mepris of religion it self , and so dwindle into atheism . this is the natural progress of dr st's principles . from which ill consequences he shall never clear himself till he shews us the light and method giving him and his no church men certainty of the sense of scripture ; and this such an absolute one as can in true reason beget and justify a most firm and vnalterable assent that the tenets they hold are indeed christs true doctrin ; and till he restores to the church and her government that necessary authority of which his ill-contriv'd principles have robb'd her : let him not think to acquit himself by telling us here of his allowing the church a power of proposing and directing in faith. a learned son of the church of england has * told him a private person may do the former ; and that the later is such a liberall grant as was given to the statues of mercury , which of old were set up to direct passengers in their way , and leaves men much at like liberty to regard either . more is justly and prudently requir'd , viz. a power to make her declarations law ; and this as to matters of faith , & not only in things belonging to order and decency ; otherwise the later without the former , makes ( as he argues very well ) some kind of fence about the church against schismaticks , but lays her open to all manner of hereticks . . this just censure of mine , upon the drs. principles , was such a choak-pear to him , that 't is no wonder he keck't at it so vehemently . the great credit he had got ( whether for defending christian faith , or no , the reader is to judge ) made him scorn to bring it up again and retract it : but he uses all the arts imaginable to palliate and excuse it , and those such wretched ones that 't is a shame to mention them ; and , certainly , never was so heavy a charge so miserably refuted . he says confidently this doctrine of his is own'd by all men of understanding in both churches . whereas , if he can show me any one catholick who maintains that he can have any faith at all or ground such a firm & sacred assent upon his own private interpretation of scripture without the churches help in those most sublime and necessary articles which have been dubious and contested between the church and any heretick , ( of which only we speak ) he will do more than miracle . but i am mightily mistaken ; he will name one , and who should that be but i. s. himself : what a boldness is this , to make me his patron to defend him in that very position which i am in this very place impugning ? well but what says i. s. why , he says that every man is to judge for his own salvation , and of the best way to his salvation , and of all the controversies between them and us , and especially of the true grounds of faith , and all this without the churches help . now i. s. says indeed that a man coming to faith does by his reason find out the true rule and true church ; that thus he iudges for his own salvation , by using his reason to find out a rule ground or way to right faith which is to bring him to salvation ; that , by his rule thus found out , he judges of all our controversies , in judging that to be christ's true doctrin which that rule recommends as such : but is this to judge of points of faith without the churches help , when that very rule by which he judges of them is avow'd by him to be the churches testimony ? above all , does he not all along declare his abhorrence of finding out faith in scripture's letter by private judgments , which is the drs position ? and must i. s. still be of the drs sentiment , tho' he in all occasions contradicts it , disputes against it , and baffles it ? what will not this nonplust man say , when he is put to his shifts ! any common words , tho' when apply'd to particulars they be directly contrary to him , must be presum'd to be for him ; in despite of a long and constant tenour of all circumstances , and whole discourses to the contrary : whoever peruses my third catholick letter from p. . to the end , will see that my way of iudging for our salvation is as opposite to his as one pole is to another , and he has the incredible confidence to make them the same . at length he hopes to come off by alledging that he spoke it only by way of supposition , that if one may without the churches help find out the churche's authority in scripture , then why not all necessary points of faith ? and , was this all he said ? indeed , he craftily introduc't his position conditionally ; but did he not , after the words [ * then every such person ( viz. any sober enquirer ) may without the churche's help find out all necessary points of faith ] espouse the position it self , which had been thus introduc't ; and this most peremptorily ; by immediately subjoyning these words [ which is a doctrin i am so far from being asham'd of , that i think it most agreeable to the goodness of god , the nature of the christian faith , and the vnanimous consent of the christian church for many ages . ] and will he now tell us after all this positive asserting it , that it only proceeds upon a supposition , a why not , & a parity of reason . he objects i answer it not . why ! was it an argument ? or must i stand answering every voluntary saying of his ( which are infinit , ) every supposition , and every why not ? if i must needs speak to it , the imparity of reason consists in this , that the church being constituted by god to instrust the faithfull in their faith , it was but fitting scripture should be clearer in those texts that concern the churches governing them in faith and their obligation to hear her , than in the particular points , which they were to be assur'd of by her teaching . besides , the former point viz. the following the churche's instructions and being govern'd by her in their faith , is a kind of morall point , whereas the other points were , many of them , sublime mysteries ; and therefore , not so easily intelligible without a master . and st. austin had beforehand confuted his pretended parity of reason , by telling him , that * proinde , quamvis hujus rei , &c. wherefore , tho' no example of this thing were produc't out of the canonicall scriptures , yet the truth of the same scriptures is held by us even in this matter , when we do what seems good to the universall church , which the authority of the same scripture commends . and , because the holy scripture cannot deceive us , whoever fears to be deceiv'd by the obscurity of this question , let him consult the same church concerning it , which ( church ) the holy scripture demonstrates without any ambiguity . where he clearly intimates the infallibility of the church ; that 't is to be consulted in dubious points ( and all controverted points , of which we speak , have been call'd into doubt ) which makes its help very needfull ; and , ( which i chiefly insist on ) that its authority is clearly and without any ambiguity demonstrated in scripture ; whereas yet in his second book de doctrinâ christianâ , he acknowledges the obscurity of scripture in divers places , obscurè quaedam dicta densissimam caliginem obducunt . some things , spoken obscurely , involve us in thickest darkness ; and if any be obscure then surely those necessary and high mysteries of our faith , which are of such a deep sense , must be such , when they come to be scann'd by eyes as yet unenlighten'd with faith ; as the same father cited in my fourth catholick letter has also told him . . after this he sums up his performances , and tells us in short how he has err'd at large . next he gives us a lame excuse for his indirect answer to the fourth question propos'd at the conference , and in effect only commits over again the same faults he was charg'd with , a little more formally , as his fashion is , and then calls it an easy answer ; and if it be an answer at all , i must confess 't is an easy one ; for any man may with ease answer a thousand objections in a trice at that rate : nothing is easier than to omit all that is objected . but i dare undertake that whoever reads my third catholick letter . p. . . . . where four several prevarications were charg'd upon him in giving one single answer to mr. g's question , will judge it so far from easy that 't is impossible for him to answer even with any degree of plausibility . but with this sleightness he slips over most of my objections in my letters , and supplies the defect with confident talk , or a scornfull iest. but , because his main shuffle is his altering those words of the question , [ all the divine revelations of christ and his apostles ] into [ all matters necessary to salvation ▪ ] and this is his constant evasion , we will examin it more particularly in order to the sole end of the conference to which all the particular questions were to be directed , viz. his showing grounds of asbolute certainty for his faith. . i ask , with the good leave of his jest , does he think christ and his apostles taught any unnecessary points ? if not ; why did he use such cautious diminishing expressions , and instead of all their doctrin , put , all matters necessary to our salvation ? . christians are wrought up to the love of heaven , the immediate disposition to it , by motives , and some may need more than others ; nay the variety of peoples tempers and circumstances is so infinite that scarce two persons will precisely need the same . he is to acquaint us then how he knows , or how he can make out , that every man shall , by reading the scripture , be sure to find his own quota of motives adjusted and serving for his particular exigencies ? . is he sure they cannot err as to what 's necessary to their salvation ? if , provided they do their best , they cannot , then every man is so far infallible ; which the doctor has deny'd hitherto to all mankind but to himself . if they can err in matters necessary to salvation , then doubtless many will err , and how can errour save them ? . tho' all cannot err in all moral points , yet can he shew us any thing securing them from erring in all those articles of faith held by the church , and renounc't by her heretical dissenters ever since christ's time ? if he cannot , ( and he declines shewing us they can , nay he by his doctrin confesses they may ) then they may be sav'd tho' holding all the heresies that ever were ; in which case i doubt he will scarce find them competent assurance of their salvation . again , how knows he but the mixture of many of those gross errours may not as much deprave their souls as their understanding plainer places will edify them ; especially if the church interposes , and excommunicates them for hereticks ? for his grounds forbid them to meddle with those high points , but leave the whole scripture to their scanning , and his approved friend dr. t. says they are plain , and so are subject to their profound judgment of discretion . . he must tell us how must church-disciplin be exerciz'd upon such a miscellany of heterogeneous members of which many obstinately deny , what others pertinaciously affirm ? . is the holding the godhead of christ , and that god dy'd to save and redeem mankind , a matter necessary to salvation ? or is it enough to hold it was only a man to whom they owe that highest obligation to love him ? let him speak to this at least ; for i am not to expect but his aiery wordish divinity makes him look upon the mystery of the most blessed trinity as on a kind of dry speculation . tho' , were it seasonable to dilate on that article , i could shew him that , besides it's exceeding usefulness to the sublime contemplatives , the most sacred and most influential points of christian faith , and the main body of christian language , and the truth of it , depend on it's verity . lastly , who told him that all sorts of people who are yet unbelievers and looking after christ's true doctrin , shall by reading scripture come to all-saving faith ? has he it by divine revelation , or by reason ? or , will he recurr to divine assistances to keep particular persons from errour , and yet deny them to the church ? if so , how proves he this at least ? i wish he would speak out fairly and candidly to these points , and make something cohere : for i profess with all sincerity i cannot for my heart make any idea or sense of this motly church which his principles would patch up . the several members of it hang more loosely together than if they were ty'd to one another with points : nay , they agree worse than fire and water , and all the several contrarieties in in nature : for they are distanced by direct contradiction of one to the other . whence they are utterly incapable of any kind of coalition ; there being no imaginable means left to refract the irreconcileably-opposit qualities of his affirmative and negative faithfull , or reduce so many independent private-spirited members into one compound . he is to shew us then how the parts of this rope of sand ( as it may more fitly be called ) must hang together . i much fear it will be invisibly , by vertue of their being of the elect , and at the same rate as the terms coher'd in the invisible proofs he alledg'd to shew us he and his followers had christ's true doctrin . . we shall never have done with this purse of his . he is so fond of the pretty similitude that he puts it here over again at large , and spends incomparably more time and pains in defending it , than he does in making out the absolute certainty of his faith ; tho' he both stood engag'd to do it , and any good christian too would think it were far more worth his while . had he done this , the rest might have been more fairly compounded , and his purse have remain'd unransack't . however , he thinks it sutes well with the conceit he had of scripture , but i am sure it sutes not at all with our purpose , his shewing the absolute certainty of his faith. hence i * told him that scripture's containing faith was impertinent to the whole drift of the conference ; that the only business was how to get the gold and silver of faith out thence with absolute certainty ; and how to secure those that aim'd to enrich themselves by it , that instead of extracting the pure gold of truth by understanding right those high and most inestimable articles , the ransackers of it did not draw out thence the impure dross of errour and heresy . lastly , that he ought to have put two purses . one , the heads and hearts of the faithfull , into which the apostles put this heavenly treasure of faith by their preaching ; the other , the book of scripture into which they put it by writing ; and that faith was properly in the former only , in regard truth is no where formally but in the minds of intellectuall beings ; whereas it was only in words written as in a sign ; that is , no more properly than wine was in a bush ; and that therefore the former had incomparably better title to be the purse ( if no metaphor else would serve his turn but such an odd one ) at least it ought not to have been quite set aside . but the dr. without troubling himself much to mind what any body says but himself ( by which method of answering , he has left , above forty parts for one , of my several discourses unanswer'd ) will needs have scripture to be the only purse , & containing faith shall be enough for his purpose , ay , that it shall , tho' it be to no purpose . and , so , he tells us , that if all the doctrin of christ be there , we must be certain we have all , if we have the scripture that contains all . and i tell him what common sense tells all mankind , that a man may have all aristotles works which contain all his doctrin , and yet not know or have one tittle of his doctrin : nor , by consequence , has the dr. one jot of christ's doctrin by having meerly the book that contains it . shall we never have done with this ridiculous and palpable nonsense ? how often has it been prov'd against him in my catholick letters that the having a book which contains all faith as in a sign ( for words are no more ) argues not his having any faith at all , unless he knows the signification of that sign ? let 's examin then the meaning of the word [ have . ] a trunk has the book of scripture when that book is laid up in it ; and that book contains all faith ; and , so , that trunk may by his logick have all faith. dr. st has the same book , and by having it , has according to him , all faith too . i ask , has he all faith by having the book , any other way then the senseless trunk has it . if he has then he has it in his intellectuall faculty as a knowing creature should have it ; and , if so , he knows it , that is , he knows the sense of it as to determinate points in it , for all christ's faith consists of those determinate points : but he still waves his having knowledge of determinate points , and talks still of faith only as contain'd in scripture in the lump ; and , 't is in the lump in the book too lying in the trunk ; whence , abstracting from his knowledge of the particulars of faith , the wooden trunk has all faith as much as he. he 'l say , he believes implicitly all that 's contain'd in scripture whether he knows the particular points , or no : but is not this to profess he believes he knows not what ? or is implicit belief of all in the book , saving faith ; when 't is the vertue of the particular points apply'd to the soul 's knowing power , and thence affecting and moving her , which is the means of salvation ? he tells us , indeed , ( for he must still cast in some good words ) that he pretends not 't is enough for persons to say their faith is in such a book , but — now did i verily think that the adversative particular [ but ] would have been follow'd with [ they must be sure 't is in it . ] but this would have made too good sense and have been too much to the point . his [ but ] only brings in a few of his customary lukewarm words which are to no purpose , viz. that they ought to read , and search and actually believe whatever they find in that book . he means , whatever they fancy they have found in it ; for he gives neither his reader nor them any security , but that after their reading and searching , they may still believe wrong . he skips over that consideration as not worthy , or else as too hard , to be made out , and runs to talk of things necessary and not necessary . i wish he would once in his life speak out and tell us how many points are necessary for the generality of the faithfull , and whether god's dying for their sins be one ; and then satisfy the world that the socinians , who deny that point , do not read , search and actually believe what their judgment of discretion tells them is the sense of scripture ; and yet , notwithstanding all this , do actually believe a most damnable heresy . but still he says if a man reads and considers scripture as he ought , and pray for wisdom , he shall not miss of knowing all things necessary for his salvation . so that unless we know that he and his party do pray for wisdom and not pray amiss , and consider scripture as they ought , none can be certain by his own grounds that he and his good folks have any faith at all , or that their rule directs them right . he would make a rare converter of unbelievers to christ's doctrin ; who , instead of bringing any argument to prove that what his church believes is truly such , tells them very sadly and soberly , he has right knowledge of it and is sure of it , because he has consider'd scripture as he ought and begg'd wisdom of god. but if this sincere seeker hap to reflect , that these pretences are things he can never come to know , and that socinians and all other sects equally profess to consider scripture as they ought and to pray for wisdom too , and yet all contradict one another ; he must , if he have wit in him , and light upon no better controvertists , think christians a company of fops ; who can shew him no assured ground of faith , but such a blind one as 't is impossible for him to see ; and would have him believe that that is a certain means for him to arrive at christ's faith , which every side , as far as he can discern , do equally make use of , and yet are in perpetual variance and contention with one another about it : so that our doctor got deep into his old fanaticism again ; and , which is yet something worse , would have pure nonsense pass for a principle to secure men of the truth of the points of faith we believe , and be taken for a good argument in controversy . certainly , never was weaker writer , or else a weaker cause . . i am glad he confesses that a rule of faith must be plain and easy , and that , otherwise , it could not be a rule of faith for all persons . let him then apply this to the dogmatical points which are only in question , and shew it thus easy to all persons in those texts that contain those articles , and his work is at an end. but alas ! that work , tho' 't is his only task , is not yet begun ; nor , for any thing appears , ever will. for 't is a desperate undertaking to go about to confute daily experience . what new stratagem must be invented then to avoid it ? why he must slip the true point again and alter it to an enquiry , whether the scriptures were left only to the church to interpret it to the people in all points , or whether it were intended for the general good of the church , so as to direct themselves in their way to heaven , and consequently , whether it may not be open'd and understood by all persons in matters that are necessary for their salvation . what a rambling , what a clutter of questions is here , when he knows , and it has been repeated near a hundred a times over , that our only question is , whether the letter of scripture be intelligible by all sorts coming to faith in those revealed articles which are properly christian with such a certainty as is fit to build faith upon . but this is one main part of his confuting talent , to throw in twenty questions so none of them be the right one . however , tho' he 'll not keep the way , he 'll triumph unless we follow him out of the way . to his questions then i answer . that none but madmen ever thought or said that the church was to interpret it as obscure to the people in all points . for , ordinary moral passages , such as the ten commandments are plain enough of themselves . why did he not instance in the trinity , the godhead of christ and such like , which and only which we say are obscure ? because , that had been to speak to our purpose , and he thought it safer for him to suggest other matters which were not all to purpose . . they were intended for the general good of the church , to direct them in their lives , and , so in their way to heaven ; and to that end are freely read by all that can understand latin , and might likely have continued permitted to all even of the most vulgar capacities , had not men of his principles made them think themselves , when they had got a bible in their hands , wiser than the whole church . whence they came to wrest them to their own destruction , and , therefore , it being now not for the general good of such proud fools , the church took care they should not be promiscuously allow'd to all , tho' indulg'd to many , even in the vulgar tongue , and explain'd and preach't to all by their pastours . lastly , none knows distinctly what he means by matters necessary to salvation ; he should mean such as those sublime points so often repeated ; but then he must make out such passages can be understood by all persons looking after faith with unerring certainty to secure their faith from being so many falshoods or heresies ; but he was not able to do this , tho' he pretended the rule for all persons must be plain and easy . as far as i can guess by a man's words whose whole discourse is made up of reserves , he mistakes the rule of manners for the rule of faith ; and thus meant 't is indeed plain and easy , but as 't is such 't is nothing to the question in debate , which is of christian faith , & so 't is nothing to our purpose . i , but bellarmin says , scripture is a rule , and that a certain and infallible one . but when it comes to the proof he speaks only of the old testament , and this as to the law , testimonies , or commandments , which are easily intelligible as being either levitical ordinances , or moral precepts . i , but christ proves his doctrin by the scripture , and confutes the sadduces from them . well , give us such an interpreter of scripture as christ was , and we shall not doubt but they will prove his doctrin , and confute all the hereticks in the world. his referring the pharisees to scripture was ad hominem ; for they allow'd the scriptures yet would not believe his miracles ; tho' sure dr st. will not say but christs miracles were in their own nature more convincing arguments than interpretations of scripture made or allow'd by the pharisees . but what 's all this to our purposes . i gave three senses of the word [ rule ] in my third catholick letter , and shew'd him in which of those senses it was and could only be call'd a rule in our circumstances . but i might as well have spoke to a deaf man : he must either counterfeit he never heard of it , or he saw he must be baffled . common words are his constant refuge , and to speak distinctly exposes him to be nonplust . his friend * dr tillotson maintains that a rule of faith is the next and immediate means whereby the knowledge of christ's doctrin is convey'd to us . does he pretend that learned cardinal holds scriptures letter to be such a rule for all people coming to christian faith to know certainly its sense in these high mysteries , without the churches interpretation ? the dr knows he abhorrs the tenet as the source of all heresy . yet he quotes him on to say that nihil est notius , nihil est certius , nothing is more known , nothing more certain than the scripture ; and immediately applies it against me for saying that the * sense of it as to the understanding the mysteries of our faith was not easy to be got out of the letter . but where 's his sincerity ? not a syllable has bellarmin of scriptures being so known as to its sense , nor any thing that looks that way . * he speaks only of the canon or books being most known by the consent of all nations who for so many ages acknowledg'd its highest authority ; and that it is most certain and true ( in its self ) as not containing humane inventions but divine oracles . so that our learned dr is exceedingly brisk when he gets the sound of any word on his side , no matter whether the sense be for him or against him . if he can but gull his reader dextrously his work is done . for a transition to treat of a rule , he tells the reader that i have spent twenty years hard labour about it . i have indeed employ'd some years and much pains in writing severall treatises to settle christian faith ( as to our knowledge of it ) on a sure basis , which he and his co-partners are still vndermining ; and i glory in the performance . in return , i will not tell the dr that mr lowth says he spent a longer time ( that is * full five and twenty years ) in a worse employment . i shall only say that i have through god's blessing , in less then two months time , writ a little treatise against his principles called errour nonplust , which he has been fifteen years in answering ; and all his quirks will never enable him to give it even a plausible reply in fifteen more . . and now we are come to scan the nature of a rule : which being a point to be manag'd meerly by reason , the reader must expect that one of us must necessarily speak perfect nonsense . for , however both sides may talk prettily & plausibly when the bus'ness is handled in a wordish way of glossing citations , & such knacks of superficial knowledge where the waxen ambiguous expressions may be made pliable to the writers fancy ; yet the natures of things will not brook they should be injur'd , but will revenge themselves upon him that wrongs them by exposing him to the shame of speaking perfect contradictions . i * alledg'd that the word [ rule ] speaks rectitude , and that such an evident one as preserves those who regulate themselves by it from oliquity or deviation ; that is , in our case , from error . after the dr. had play'd the droll a while upon particular words taken asunder from their fellows , as is his usuall manner , he grants , there wants but one word to make it past dispute , viz. who effectually regulate themselves by it . now the word regulate has clearly an active signification ; whence , it being impossible an action should be without an effect , it follows that efficiency or effectuallness is involv'd in it's notion : so that , to do a thing effectually does not signify any better degree of doing a thing , but only to do it really and indeed . he pretends [ regulating ] is an ambiguous word , and therefore he assigns it a double signification . one of them is , what a man doth in conformity to his rule : and common sense tells us that as far as a man acts unconformably to his rule , he is not regulated by that rule , whence , to act conformably to a rule is the self same as to be regulated by the rule to which he is to conform . this then is one signification of regulating ; and 't is a right one ; for to regulate one's self by a rule is nothing else but to act conformably to it . le ts see the other sense of the word regulating . 't is this . to * profess * declare and * own to conform to a rule , but not conform to it , that is , not follow that rule or regulate themselves by it . now , only to profess , declare , and own to conform to a rule and not conform , is not to-follow it or regulate themselves by it . so that our learned dr. has given us here two sorts of regulating ; one , which is regulating , the other which is not regulating . let us put an instance . the rule of justice is to pay every man his own : now comes an unconscionable debtor , and maintains he has followed that rule or regulated himself by it in some sense ; because he has profess'd , declar'd and own'd he has follow'd that rule , tho' he has not effectually and indeed done so . is not this a special way of regulating himself by the rule of justice , and a most cheap way for a man to pay debts without disbursing a farthing ? yet he may justify himself by dr. st's distinction , and maintain that he has paid them professingly , owningly , and declaringly , tho' not effectually . yet the dr. is mighty fond of this choice distinction , and says all mr s's subtlety vanishes into nothing by plain and so easy a distinction . notwithstanding , as nonsensicall as it is , he will bring two instances to make it good , viz. that there is one sort of regulating which is not-regulating . the one is of a ciceronian , who declares he orders his speech by his manner , and yet for want of sufficient skill and care may use phrases which are not cicero's . now , 't is plain that to regulate himself by cicero is to use his phrases ; and can he then regulate himself by cicero when he does not use his phrases ? can he be truly said to regulate himself by him , when he does not use his manner of speaking , meerly because he professes and declares he does it ? or can he be said to regulate himself by a rule in that very thing in which he deserts that rule and regulates himself by some other author or his own fancy ? did ever common sense go so to wrack ! if he says he intended to follow cicero but mistook , i understand him ; but intending to do a thing is not doing it ; intending to get riches is not to get riches , otherwise none need be poor . his second instance is , that some may profess that christ's commands are their rule , and yet through their own fault may deviate from them or sin. but can sinners with any sense be said to regulate themselves by christ's commands , when they sin meerly because they profess to follow his rule of life ? or can any man of a settled brain ( dr st. still excepted ) pretend a sinner can be said to be regulated by that holy rule , and deviate from it , or desert it at the same time ? so that his instances as well as his distinctions are pure folly and contradiction . these performances , we must think , qualify him to laugh at my admirable logick for not allowing his palpable nonsence ; whereas himself is still caught stumbling in the plainest paths of that common road to true learning . i could wish some of dr st's friends would advise him soberly to fall to quoting and gleaning notes , & then stitching them handsomly and methodically together ; where he is in his own element ; for in that wilderness of words he may take his full vagary , and scribble to the world's end , without much danger of meeting with conclusive evidence , which he so dreads and hates ; but certainly his talent lies not in this crabbed way of close reason . the rest of his discourse here is imposing upon me that i make men incapable of deserting the rules of christian faith and virtue : tho' he knows in his conscience i have told him the express contrary above twenty times . all i pretend to in my discourse from the nature of a rule , is , that if follow'd , it will secure the followers of it from errour : but i no where ever said but all free agents , or all mankind may desert those rules , and , by deserting them , fall into errour and sin too , unless supported by god's grace . he asks if it be possible for men to misunderstand a certain rule ; and i tell him , it is , in case it be not clear as well as certain : and * i have already shewn him that the living voice and practise of the church ( our rule ) has so many ways of delivering clearly her own sense , ( or christ's doctrin ) that the generality cannot fail of understanding it right ; however divers souls to whom this rule is not so well apply'd , remaining less cultivated by their own carelesness or the negligence of pastours , may hap to misunderstand some points . nor can they run into errour so as to fix in it , while they think to follow the rule : for , knowing they are to receive their faith from the church , they take not upon themselves to judge of faith , as his sober enquirers do , whom he allows to judge of scriptures sense without any certain teacher to preserve them from errour and heresy ; whence such men became fixt and unretractable , by fancying they have gods word on their side ; while the others continue docil and capable of the churches instruction upon any occasion : and , when it comes to be discover'd ( as in likelihood it will be ) by their expressions that they have any misconceit concerning faith , it obliges them to seek to be better inform'd by the church , their mistress , whom they are willing to hear and believe ; and the church too becomes oblig'd to rectify their mistakes , and instruct their ignorance . . i have spoken formerly of his necessary points . only i am to observe here that he avoids very carefully with if 's , the telling us whether any of the highest mysteries of our faith be necessary for salvation . but must we still be put off with that frigid evasion that such sublime points are as intelligible now at this distance from the time of the apostles , tho' only couch't in a few words in a book , as they were when spoke by those living teachers ; who doubtless not only deliver'd their sense in a few set words , but ( such points needing it ) explain'd it and dilated upon it , to settle it better , and sink an express conceit of it deeper into the minds of their auditors ? can it be imagin'd but that many of the people ; and the pastours especially , put their doubts , and askt them questions , concerning the points of faith they had preacht , and receiv'd pertinent answers ; none of which a book could do . how ridiculous a pretence then is this ! yet this is his best shift : for , unless the book have this or an equivalent virtue to make clear its sense , it cannot have the plainness or clearness requisit to a rule of faith. he contends that , if those points be necessary to salvation , they must be so plain that we may be certain of our duty to believe them . which retorts his discourse upon himself ; for if those two sublime articles there spoken of be necessary for the salvation of the generality ( which cannot be deny'd without accusing the primitive church of tyranny for casting those out of the church who deny'd them ) then they must be certain , one way or other , that 't is their duty to believe them ; and , since he does not think fit to say this duty can be certainly shewn them by the letter of scripture , it follows that this duty to believe them , must be made certain by the testimony of the church delivering them . 't is easy to be seen the whole force of his discourse here is built on his begging the question , that scriptures letter as understood by private judgments , is the rule of faith ; and that it is plain in all necessary points : which he ought not to do without shewing us first which points are necessary , at least those of the trinity , and godhead of christ , if he think them so , and then proving his rule is plain in all such points ; and not still to suppose , presume upon , and occurr to that which is yet under dispute , vngranted , and unprov'd . let me then mind him of one piece of logick , which tho' it be not admirable , yet 't is solid and never regarded by him . 't is this , that no argument has any force upon another , but either by its being so evident that he must forfeit his reason to deny it , or granted by his adversary ; so that he must either argue from something clear of it self or made clear by proof , or else argue ex concessis from the party 's own concession . by which rule if all the reasons he brings here were examin'd , it will manifestly appear he has not spoken one word of true reason against me in his whole answer . i do here challenge him to shew me so much as any one argument of his that has either of these qualifications : and to encourage him to such a performance , if he can shew me any one such , i promise him to pass all the rest for valid and good . i end with desiring the considering reader to reflect on the drs discourse here p ▪ . and upon an exact review of it to determine whether principles are not deeply laid here to make the socinians and many other known hereticks , members of his church , and to free them from church censurers . for if they find not in scripture that the apostles preacht the trinity and godhead of christ in clear and express terms , and with this connotate , [ as necessary to salvation ] they cannot be certain of their duty to believe them , the consequences of which i need not dilate on . his own church is more concern'd to look to his tenets than i am . . he triumphs much that i grant some may be sav'd without the knowledge of all christ taught ; he means , those spiritual points so often mention'd . but , if he knew how little advantage he gains by it , he would not think it worth his taking notice of . what may be done in an abstracted case is one thing ; what , if they live in a church , and hold heresies contrary to christ's and the church's doctrin , is another . some catholick divines treating of faith do mantain that to hold there is a god , and that he is a rewarder and punisher , is simply enough for salvation if they live up to those tenets ; whence they conceive hopes that nebuchadnezzar was sav'd tho' he was no iew. but what 's this to our case ? christ has left us a body of doctrin ; and since he did nothing unnecessary for the salvation of mankind , this being the end of his coming and preaching , each point conduced to that end either immediately or by consequence , whence by the way 't is a folly to expect the apostles taught such points as necessary to salvation , others as not necessary , since no point was vnnecessary for the salvation of mankind ; except when they said for distinction , dico ego , non christus , or us'd some equivalent expression . but to return , god has also settled a church to conserve that doctrin of christ intire . whence , if any falls into heresies contrary to that doctrin by misunderstanding scripture's letter in such passages , 't is her duty to cast them out of the church and deliver them over to satan , for their contumacious pride in preferring their own private judgments before the judgment of their pastours , and the church whom god appointed to teach them. whence , i do assure him i do not hold that any one such privative unbeliever will ever be sav'd , tho' he holds some points which , of their own nature might suffice for salvation . for , such a man believes nothing at all but upon his own self conceit , and the very ground of his faith , let him prate of scripture as much as he will , is spiritual pride ; which vice alone is enough to damn him , even tho' he held all those points of christ's faith to a tittle . hence follows that either the primitive church ( as hinted above ) was very uncharitable in excommunicating those who dissented from those high articles ; or else , the rule of faith must be so plain and clear that it must preserve those from heresy who follow it , and render them inexcusable who by deserting it do fall into the opposit heresies : and , therefore , that we may bring our discourse back to the question , he must either prove his rule of faith thus qualify'd , or 't is no rule . what follows to p. . is meer drollery ; which gives all the seeming strength to his weak reasoning . only he has a fling at transubstantiation , which is a topick of course in his controversy . he thinks 't is unnecessary to the church ; but the church it seems thought it necessary to define it , in her circumstances ; and i humbly conceive the necessary occasion of defining it was , because such as he equivocated in the tenet of the reall presence ; and ( according to the drs late distinction making not-regulating to be one sort of regulating ) would needs have the word [ reall ] to mean [ not-reall ] whence it was judg'd expedient to put it past quibble by such a rigorously-express definition . and i much fear this vexes the drs sacramentarian spirit far more then transubstantiation it self . i omit , that he has forgot here the common distinction of what points are necessary necessitate medij , and what necessitate praecepti . i suppose because this later did not sute with his levelling principles , which set the church and his rabble on even ground as to matters of faith. . i alledg'd that those articles of the trinity and christ's godhead were fundamentall points ; and therefore if his rule could not absolutely ascertain people of all sorts coming to faith of those articles , it could assure them of none , and so is no rule of faith. he runs quite away from the points , and thinks he has done enough to say , it is absolutely certain that god has reveal'd the fundamentalls of our faith. but the question sticks still , are you absolutely certain by your rule that the trinity and christ's godhead are christ's doctrin or signify'd with absolute certainty by scripture's letter ? to this he says nothing , but shifts it off most shamelessly to another thing . let him set himself to do this which is his task , and we will undertake to examin the nature of his medium , and show it inconclusive . i alledg'd that there is experience , by the socinians taking the same way , that his medium or way to be certain of this is not certain . he again turns off experience that the way he takes is not certain , to experience of his inward certainty , or his inward persuasion . and asks briskly , whether he or i know best ? a pleasant gentleman ! why does he not confute all my book by that method ? does he think 't is enough to show he is absolutely certain of the sense of scripture as to those points , with barely saying , he knows he is thus certain of it better than i ? what wretched shifts are these ? in pursuance of this new method of proving and confuting he asks again , how comes mr. s. to know we are not certain when we say we are ? because , when you are most highly concern'd , and stood engag'd by promise to show this absolute certainty , and are prest to it vehemently , and upon the brink of losing your credit for not doing it , you still decline the showing you have any such certainty for the sense of scripture as to those points . still he asks , are not we certain because some ( that is , the socinians ) are not certain ? no , sir , not barely for that reason ; but because the socinians proceeding upon the same rule , are so far from being certain of the sense of scripture as to those points , that they esteem themselves certain by the same scripture of hereticall tenets point-blank opposit to those points . common reason assures us no end can be compass'd without a means , and therefore you can never show us you are certain , till you show us you follow a better way , rely on a firmer ground , and guide your selves by a clearer light to make you certain of scriptures sense in those passages , than they do : which you can never show , and , as appears by your wriggling from that point by the most untoward shifts imaginable , dare not attempt . but some are uncertain of orall tradition , nay censure it : i do not know one man but holds and reverences it . it lies upon his credit to name those who censure it : for lominus is a chimaerical name and signifies no body that he knows . but suppose some did ; yet it being an object of naturall reason , they and i in that case , could not proceed on the same grounds or reasons ; as his protestants and the socinians do upon the same rule of faith. . i alledg'd that by his principles , he could be no more certain of his rule , then he is of the truth of the letter of scripture , in regard the truth of the sense of scripture depends on the trueness of the letter . does he deny this ? or does he show that without the care of the church preserving the letter right all along , he can have any such certainty of the letter ? he not so much as attempts either . i alledg'd farther that he cannot be thus certain of the right letter without having the same certainty of the right translation or the true copy ; nor that any copy is true , unless it be taken from the first originall . does he deny this ? or does he show that all these may not fail if the churches's care be set aside ? no , neither . what shift has he then ? why he says , . that some of us are concern'd to answer this as well as he. not at all , for those who say that part of faith is contain'd in scripture , do not , for all that , say that their faith is built on scripture's letter interpreted by any but the church ; nor do they say but the church without scripture could have ascertain'd them of their faith. . he says , this strikes at the authentickness of the vulgar translation . not at all : for we have other grounds to go upon which they have not. . he skips , after bringing some words of mine for what they were never intended , from the translation , to the canon of scripture , which are a mile wide from one another , that so he may , however he speeds in all the rest , at least talk plausibly of the concurrent testimony for the canon . in order to which , he stands up a patron for those christian churches of his who thus concurr'd ; and will not condemn them as not truly christian till their cause be better heard and examin'd . yet 't is evident from his second letter to mr. g. p. . that some of those churches were arians , nestorians , and eutychians , condemn'd for hereticks by most antient general councils ; which he blames , it seems , for declaring so rashly against them , and reprieves his friends from their censures till a fairer hearing . it had been happy for them , had dr. st. presided in those councils , for he would doubtless have dealt with them very kindly , and have clapt them head and tail together with good catholicks , into one latitudinarian bill of comprehension . . i alledg'd that the same sense in the heart of the church enabled and oblig'd her to correct the copy when faulty in texts containing points of faith ; which , instead of shewing it incompetent or disagreeable to the nature of things , he confutes most learnedly by pretending that atheists and unbelievers would be scandaliz'd at it . whereas they would be much more scandaliz'd to see no certain means assign'd to preserve the letter right from the beginning ( the very first originals being lost ) and all left , ( the churches care set apart ) to so many contingences of translating and transcribing . . we must prove it first to be impossible for the sense of the church to vary in any two ages . as if this had not been prov'd already , and never yet answer'd but by shuffles and evasions . . he frames a plea for the arians against the nicene councill from my principles : but very untowardly , for the arians allow'd the copies , and quoted scripture as fast as catholicks did , and yet err'd most abominably ; which makes against himself . lastly , he tells us that 't is a pernicious principle , a miserable account , &c. at which i wonder not . for , every thing is miserable and pernicious with him that makes the church good for any thing . yet he * could grant the churches testimony was needfull at first to abett the truth of the gospells ; and she enjoy'd that priviledge in * st. austins time ; and i wonder how she came to lose her title to god's gracious providence and assistance , or how she came to be disabled in the following ages to preserve the letter uncorrupted in those texts that contain'd known points of faith. it seems , translaters , and transcribers ( for the most part mercenary ) are sacred with him , and admirable preservers of the letter ; but , alas ! the miserable church is good for nothing . i have * already told him why i hold scriptures letter no rule , how 't is sometimes call'd a rule in an improper sense , and why that sense is improper , and his friend dr. tillotson has told him what a rule of faith means * in our controversies ; but he never heeds either : but runs on here with frivolous descants upon an ambiguous word , and will needs take [ rule ] in a sense never meant , nor possible to be meant in our circumstances . he 's not satisfy'd with the care of the council of trent in correcting the copy . but let him remember i spoke there of texts of inferiour concern , not of those that concern'd faith. and why is he not satisfy'd ? did she not do her best in the present circumstances ? how will he prove it ? because clemens the th recall'd and corrected the bibles put out by sixtus the th for an exact edition . but , if both did their best , according to the observations were made in their time , and the light they had then , neither of them were to blame . but all this humane diligence amounts not to absolute certainty as i. s. requires of us : and is it not more reason i should require it of him than he of me , since he makes it ( scriptures letter ) the proper rule of faith , which he knows i do not , and yet , which is pleasant he calls upon me aloud to declare as much , and then he knows how to answer . and now i know the true reason why he has answer'd nothing hitherto , viz. because i had not declar'd what i had own'd in all my books near a thousand times over . but we have lost our point by answering a multitude of impertinent cavills . 't is this . the sense of scripture cannot be absolutely certain , unless there be absolute certainty the letter is right : nor can there be absolute certainty the letter is right even in texts relating to faith by his principles , which deny this was perform'd by the churches knowledge of the points of faith , but by making out with absolute certainty how the letter was by some other means secur'd from being wrong . this he never attempts even in this very occasion when it lay upon him to do it ; and , therefore , for all his empty flourishes he has said just nothing . nor has shewn or defended that even the ground of his faith , scriptures letter , is absolutely certain . besides his discourse still beats upon this mistake that we do not hold the letter absolutely certain in such concerning texts ; whereas we only say he cannot prove it to be such by his principles ; and he makes our words good with not performing it , or so much as attempting it . only he tells us for our comfort , that as to books , copies , and translations , he has as high a certainty as the thing is capable of ; and then 't is madness to expect and require more . so that , tho' it happen that the certainty be but a very sleight one , his kind of faithfull and converts may take their choice whether they will be fools if they will believe it , or madmen if they will not . he tells us indeed faintly the faith previous to divine faith , may have absolute certainty ; but if it only may have it , it may not have it . in the mean time , what is all this voluntary saying , to his proving that he has really and indeed absolute certainty of those books , copies , and translations . 't is his proofs we lookt for , and not bare narrations of his own weak tenets , with which he thus puts us off continually . . but how strangely insincere ( if any such carriage could after so frequent use of it be strange in him ) is the dr to pretend we hold it is in any churches power to correct original texts because they contradict the sense of the present church . these words he puts into italick letter as if they were mine ; but he cites no place , and i do assure the reader i have neither such words nor sense . the first originals are not extant , & so cannot be corrected ; & those call'd originals , which are already acknowledg'd , ought as little to be corrected as the other , in texts belonging to faith. all the power we give the church is to correct succeeding copies upon occasion , in texts relating to the articles of our faith , when they deviate from the faith of the church , or ( which is the same ) from former copies allow'd by her universally . . i desir'd the dr to satisfy us concerning the number of books requisit to a rule of faith , and how many will just serve the turn ; as also whether some book , for any thing his principles can assure us , were not lost . this lay upon him to prove , and this with absolute certainty , if he would have scripture an intire rule of his faith ; how proves he it ? why , he makes me mightily concern'd to lessen the authority of the new testament ; and that i charge the christian church with a gross neglect . for all this noise , he knows well enough that i agree with him , that 't is not in the least probable the churches should suffer any such book disperst among them to be last , nor do i so much as suppose they did . what i say is , that he who holds all humane authority fallible , can never prove it true they deliver'd down all ; unless he can convince the world that a fallible medium can prove a thing true ; which he cannot do without proving that what may be false is true. nor can he do this , without proving the same thing may be and not be at once . i wish then he would set himself to work , and prove this abominable first principle to be false ; for , otherwise , this alone will confute all the substantial parts of his book , and convince every man of common sense , that his grounds , confest by himself to be fallible , can never make out , that 't is true that he has either right letter , or right sense of scripture , or that no book is lost , &c. and so there 's an end of his problematical faith. i must confess that to prove first principles false is something difficult ; but i have reduc't the business to as narrow a compass as i can , that he may make short work of it . he recurrs at present for want of some clear proof , to gods providence concern'd in preserving books written by divine inspiration , of which none doubts . but , why should not god's providence be as much concern'd in preserving his church from erring in faith that so both all those books , their letters and sense might be kept right as far as was necessary ? or , why was god's providence the less for making the churches care and help the means to preserve both the books and letter of scripture from suffering detriment ? lastly , why must his providence be confin'd to only translaters and transcribers ? . dr st. in his second letter to mr. g. p. . made the canon of the new testament the rule of his faith. to show the inconsistency of his tenets , and utterly overthrow his pretence of that rule , i * alledg'd , that if the whole canon be his rule , then his rule was deficient for some hundreds of years till the whole canon was collected and acknowledg'd . i prest farther , that , since it must take up some time e're those severall books were spread and accepted , sometimes the primitive church had according to his principles , but three quarters of their faith ▪ half of their faith , or less , and so were but three-quarters or half-christians , according as the several pieces came by degrees to be vniversally accepted . for no man of sense can doubt but that it cost some time e're the churches , so diffus'd , heard of all those books , and much more e're they could be perfectly satisfy'd of the universal testimony of the church ascertaining them to have been writ by men divinely inspir'd ; in regard it was of most dangerous consequence to accept that for gods word , which was not beyond all doubt such . so that we may with reason imagin that some churches had at first but two or three books of scripture , others but four or five that were well attested or could be rely'd on in such a high concern . add , that there were divers false gospells and spacious books given out under the names of having the apostles or apostolical men for their authors ; which must have redoubled their care , and made them backward to receive any that were not authentick , which would take up still more time to examin thoroughly . to press my argument still more home , i urg'd that perhaps , according to him , they had no faith at all during that long interval ; because wanting other books or sufficient warrant to rely on them , they , by consequence wanted a multitude of other texts , with which they might compare those they already had , which is one part of his method to find true faith in scripture . to show more the inconsonancy of his doctrine , i noted that , notwithstanding all this , * he declar'd that he lookt upon the primitive church tho' so ill furnish't with his rule , as on the best arbitrator between us in all our controversies about the sense of the doubtfull ( that is controverted ) places of scripture . now , one would verily think this pressing discourse , following the point in question so close and pursuing it so home , were exceedingly worth his while to answer , if he could ; since it toucht his rule and his cause to the quick . now le ts see what he says in their defence . the substance of his answer ( for all the rest is impertinent ) is a most doughty and most weighty word [ if ] if god ( says he ) hath so abundantly provided for his church that there may be a full revelation of all points of faith in the rest , then the disputing the authority of such an epistle ( meaning that to the hebrews ) doth not derogate from the compleatness of the rule of faith. what 's become of his sincerity and morall honesty , which he so profest to love ? did i speak of the epistle to the hebrews ? did not i , not only speak of but most expressly discourse all along of those many or most books of scripture , not universally known and accepted at the very first , but by degrees spreading and gaining in process of time the credit of being authentick ? does not my discourse that by his principles [ the primitive church had but three quarters of her faith , half her faith , or less ] barr this shamming pretence that i speak only of that epistle ? or does he think i meant that that single epistle was half or three quarters of the canon of scripture ? and now , reader , i beg thy leave to insist here upon this prevarication as an instance of one great part of his method in confuting . he picks out a word or two which may best serve him to slip away from the point ; and turn it to quite another business , but leaves the whole stress and full import of the argument unanswer'd . it were tedious still to reflect how oft he has done thus in this pretended reply to my catholique letters : but , whoever compares his severall answers to the respective places he pretends to speak to , will see how dull and insignificant they are ; tho' if he be read alone , especially with an implicit belief of his dealing fairly , they look very jolly and brisk . however to divert the readers eye he is even with me in another point . i said the accepting or not accepting books whether in the latin or greek churches was an act of prudence antecedent to the iudgment or determination of any church , and so could not make or marr the latin churche's infallibility in her iudgment or decrees . he falls into a gross mistake of the word [ antecedent ] and erects a trophy of victory upon his own errour . to clear which 't is to be observed that our divines admit prudentiall considerations in any church , even tho' held infallible , previous to her decrees , & yet do not hold that church is infallible in those acts of prudence which are thus antecedent . now , tho' the whole series of my discourse there shows clearly that i spoke of an antecedency in the course of humane actions , or of a prudentiall deliberation antecedent to an absolute decision ; he turns it to an antecedency in chronology , or of more antient writers ; and when he has apply'd that word to a wrong matter he has the vanity to insult . but , he says , i say not a syllable to his proving hence the roman church was not then believ'd infallible . surely he never consider'd what he pretends to answer ; for by saying it was not only an act of prudence antecedent to any degree , i show there was no occasion to show what was then believ'd of her infallibility or not believ'd . again , since the certainty of that epistles being writ by st. paul depended on testimony , other churches might perhaps know that better for some time than she. but , the worst is , he was preparing for new questions , to avoid the danger in keeping to the true one . for he knew the infallibility of the church we are here defending , is that of tradition in delivering down the doctrin of christ ; and he does not , sure , judge it a point of christ's doctrin that the epistle to the hebrews was writ by s. paul. add , that when the church of rome did decree any thing at all in that matter , it was for the reception of that epistle ; in doing which he will not , i hope , say she err'd . so that our great dr is out in every particular in which he shows such confidence , or rather he is to talk very confidently whenever he is out , that he may not seem not to be out . . he puts my objection against his universall consent , of the testimonies of marcion , ebion , valentinus and cerinthus , who ( as he makes me say ) rejected the canon of the new testament ; and then asks , could any man but j. s. make such an objection as this ? and , i may , i hope , ask another question ; could any man but dr st. put such a gull upon his adversary and the reader too ? now , if i us'd such words as [ who rejected the canon of the new testament ] i spoke nonsense ; for those hereticks were dead long before that canon was settled : but if i did not , then he has abus'd me and our readers too , and done no great right to himself . let eye-sight decide it . in my third catholick letter . p. . ( the place he cites ) line . . my express words are , the consent of all your christian churches for scripture ; and he instead of [ scripture ] puts down as my words [ the canon of the new testament . ] i can compassionate humane oversight ( for it may hap possibly tho' it can never knowingly to be my own case ) and not too severely impute a mistake in altering my words , and by them my sense : yet i must needs say that to put those wrong words in the italick letter to breed a more perfect conceit they were mine , and quote the very page in the margent where no such words were found , to make me speak nonsense , looks a little scurvily ; especially , because when men have their eyes upon the very page , as he had , they have an easy and obvious direction to the words too . but , why do i make such a spitefull reflexion on him as to call them his christian churches ? because he would needs allow other sects , as perfectly hereticall as they were to be [ * christian churches ] tho' he was put upon it to give them a distinct character ; and here again he grants them to be parts of the christian church , tho' they be cut off by lawfull authority from the body of christianity . next , that i may speak my conscience , because i fear , by many passages in his books , by his ill-laid principles , and the very grain of his doctrin and discourses , he judges all to be good christians who profess to ground their faith on scripture , let them hold as many heresies as they will. and , lastly , for his fierce anger here against me for calling those hereticks , viz. the arians , nestorians , &c. which have been condemn'd by generall councils , ( for i concern not my self with his greeks or abyssins or any others ) excrementitious outcasts , and that i sling such dirt in the face of so many christian churches . and is not this to cry , hail fellow , well met ? but my cause ( he says ) is desperate , because i call such men knights of the post. yet he knows the fathers oft complain of hereticks for corrupting the scripture ; and the testimony of the churches truly christian was absolutely certain , without calling in so needlessly blasted witnesses . moreover i told him that the universall testimony he produc't did attest the books , but it must attest the chapter and uerse too to be right , nay each significant word in the verse , otherwise the scripture could not assure him absolutely of his faith. can he deny this ? if the chapter or verse he cites be not true scripture , or if any materiall word in the verse be alter'd can he securely build his faith on it ? what says he to this ? does he deny it , or show that his grounds reach home to prove these particular texts or words to be right , by universall testimony or any other medium ? neither of them is his concern : what does he then ? why he complains how hardly we are satisfy'd about the certainty of scripture and that we are incurable scepticks . sure he dreams . we are satisfy'd well enough ; but his vexation is that we are not satisfy'd of it by his principles ; and how should we ; if , when it was his cue to satisfy us , he will never be brought to go seriously about it ? and why must we be scepticks ; when as we both hold the rectitude of the letter our selves in texts relating to faith , and assign a way to secure it absolutely , which he cannot ? must all men necessarily be scepticks who allow not his no-way of doing this , tho' they propose and maintain a certain way that can do it ? this is a strange way of confuting . he says there are different copies in all parts to examin and compare . 't is these very copies that are in question , whether they give absolute certainty of every verse or materiall word in the letter of scripture , and we expected he should have shown how they did so , and not barely name them , and say there are such things . but the main point is , must those who are looking for faith run to all parts of the world , and examin and compare all the copies e're they embrace any faith ? this looks like a jest : yet 't is a sad , tho' a mad truth by his principles . for without knowing this , scripture cannot be their rule ; and hee 'll allow no way to come to faith but by scripture ; so that , for any assurance he can give them , ( even of his necessary points ) they must e'n be content to stay at home , and live and dye without any faith at all . he ends . and thus i have answer'd all the objections i have met with in j. s. against our rule of faith. here are two emphaticall words [ thus ] and [ met ] of which the word thus has such a pregnant signification and teems with so many indirect wiles and stratagems that it would be an ingratefull task to recount them ; and the word [ met ] is as significant as the other . for how should he meet those that lay in the way , while he perpetually runs out of the way . sect . iv. how solidly dr. st. answers our arguments for the infallibility of tradition . . but now he exerts his reasoning faculty , which he does seldom , & will answer mr g's argument for the infallibility of oral and practical tradition . with what success we shall see anon . but , first he will clear his bad logick for letting the argument stand yet in its full force , and falling very manfully to combat the conclusion : and tho' common sense tells every man this is not to answer but to argue , yet he will have arguing to be answering for all that . 't is his interest to do it solidly , for he has all the world , who in their disputes follow the contrary method , to confute . his main reason to prove that arguing is a good way to answer is because the argument attempts to prove a thing impossible , and that 't is contrary to sense and experience to say the latin and greek churches do not differ in what they receive upon tradition ; and so the same answer that diogenes gave to zeno's argument against motion by walking , will serve the turn . let 's examin this parallel , in which consists the substance of his defence of his bad logick . does all the world see that the generality of the greek church proceed upon tradition in what they differ from the latin as certainly and evidently as they see there is motion ? have not i produc't in my first catholick letter , p. . reasons enow to shew him how disputable this point is , none of which he so much as mentions ? did not i there p. . quote him out of his own book peter lombard , saying , that the difference between the greeks and latins is in words and not in sense ? nay , thomas a iesu , azorius , &c. who were of the same judgment ? and could not these learned men see a thing manifest to sense and experience ? our point then is nothing like that of denying motion , nor is it contrary to sense and experience , but such as bears a dispute amongst intelligent men and great schollars , and therefore , even by the drs own discourse , an argument or instance , brought against the conclusion was no answer to the premises of the argument brought by mr. g. and so all the division he runs upon it here is perfectly frivolous . nor was mr g. oblig'd either to grant or deny the greek church had err'd , but was to insist on an answer to his argument ; because the dr had playd foul play , in attacking his conclusion when he was to answer his proof ; which if admitted , no discourse could possibly proceed . for , let us suppose dr. st. had been to argue , and had brought this instance of the greek church ; would he have thought it fair that mr g. when he was to answer it , should have brought the argument he made use of in the conference , and have bid him prove that two churches following tradition differ'd in faith , notwithstanding his demonstration that they could not ? or , would it be held a competent answer to his late book against the council of trent , to bid him prove it had not follow'd tradition , notwithstanding all that a multitude of learned catholick authors had writ to the contrary ? i took heart then indeed , as he says , seeing the dr so nonplust , but 't is his own fiction that i resolv'd to grapple with his instance , it being impertinent to do it in those circumstances , and so he may thank himself if he were disappointed . i was ty'd to the known laws of dispute , and not bound to dance after his pipe when he strays from all the clearest methods of reasoning . i objected that himself had defended the greek church from erring in his rational account ; which spoils his own instance of a church going upon tradition and erring . he calls this trifling , and says the dispute was about mr g 's argument . yes ; but these words were not brought to abet his agreement , but expressly to shew the drs inconsonancy to himself , and his unconscienciousness in arguing from the greek churches erring ; whereas it was his opinion it did not err. and tho' mr g's answer may be pretended not to be so pat to the particular demand , yet it was apposit to the main point that no church did at once adhere to tradition and err at the same time . for which i gave my reason , because if each successive generation follow'd their fathers tradition from the beginning , the last son must believe as the first did . this was too hot to handle , and so 't is answer'd with good night to the greek church ; which is learned beyond expression . lastly , upon my saying , he might as well have instanc't in the latin church it self , without running so far as greece ; he takes hence an occasion to accept of the challenge , tho' it did not look like one , being only spoke occasionally ; and threatens us not with a bare instance but a whole book against us : he may use his pleasure ; tho' i must tell him it looks but cowardly to threaten when he 's running away from his business , undertaken and not yet perform'd ; and leaving the absolute certainty of his poor destitute faith in the suds . one would think it had been the more compendious way to overthrow our cause , to answer five or six lines if he could have done it . but , he had a mind to be at another work more suitable to his quoting genius , and hop'd to draw us after him from a conclusive and short way of discoursing to an endless one , of answering every frivolous misunderstood or misapply'd citation . . but now he will shew us how 't is possible to adhere to tradition & yet err . a hard task , if apply'd to our business ! for , since to adhere to tradition is still to believe what was deliver'd , to shew that those who adhere to tradition do err , is to shew that they who still believ'd the same christ taught did not believe the same christ taught . a point so evident that his reflecter could not but grant it . yet let the dr alone ; i dare hold a good wager on his side that he can by his confuting method & his logick prove direct contradictions to be true without any difficulty , or , as he calls it here , with an easy distinction . he begins with two senses of adhering to tradition . one of adhering to it as the rule and means of conveying matters of faith. the other for adhering to the very doctrin taught at first and truely convey'd down since by tradition . that is , there are two sorts of tradition or delivery ; one is tradition , the other is not tradition or delivery , but the points deliver'd . parallel to this is his distinction of traditionary christians . to what purpose is it , to talk sense to a man who is resolv'd to run still so wildly into nonsense ? do but see , good reader , with what care i had forestall'd this very absurd distinction in my third catholick letter , p. . . . . and shew'd how he had deform'd tradition into all the untoward senses man's wit could invent , by making it now signify articles , now power , now points deliver'd ; yet to convince the world that he cannot or rather must not speak sense , he 's at the same work again as briskly as ever : and good reason : contradictions are better friends to him than principles : for nothing more confounds the reader , which is all he looks after ; and to confound him with a shew of distinguishing , which nature intended for a way to clear things , does it with a better grace . the same work he makes with the word [ traditionary ] and , tho' he were told what we meant by it first letter , p. . and second letter , p. . yet 't is never acknowledg'd , but he still runs his division upon it , as if it were some ambiguous or mysterious word , till he has put the whole tenour of the discourse into confusion . once more i tell him , and desire the reader to witness it , that he already knows what we distinctly mean by those words : and , if he will not acknowledge it and speak to the sense we give it upon our assurance that we never took them , nor ever will take them otherwise , he speaks not to me , nor gives a word of answer ; but , as baffled men use , runs for shelter to meer brabbles and impertinencies . . and now that is , after he had laid contradictions for his principles , he comes to give a clear and distinct answer to our demonstration of the infallibility of tradition . and no doubt by virtue of such grounds he will do wonders . mr. g's discourse was distinguish't by me in my first letter p. . . into four parts or propositions ; of which , the first is , that all traditionary christians believe the same to day which they did yesterday , and so up to the time of our blessed saviour . now he knows that by tradition we mean an immediate delivery , and this from day to day ; for it would not be immediate if it were at all interrupted ; and by [ traditionary ] those who follow'd this rule of immediate delivery and do actually believe the say to day which they did yesterday ; and that , if they do not this , they desert this tradition by interrupting immediate delivery , and so cease to be traditionary christians . all this he already knows for it has been told him over and over : whence he cannot but know , tho' he thinks not fit to acknowledge it , that the proposition is self-evident , and plainly amounts to this , that they who believe still the same do still believe the same ; and the word [ traditionary ] was only made use of to express those persons in one word , because it had been tedious still to use so many . could any man but this gentleman undertake to combat a proposition so formally , which is in sense identicall and self-evident ? i took him to be one who would own his humane nature which obliges every man to assent to such clearest truths , and so vainly hop't he had nothing to say to it . but , as he says very true , i was mistaken : for he has many things to say to lay open the notorious fallacy of it in every clause . how ? every clause ? why , there 's but one clause in the whole ; for the adjoyn'd words [ and so up to the time of our blessed saviour ] are the most essentiall part of it , and distinguish christian tradition from that of hereticall traditions begun since christ's time . so that the dr makes account that one signifies many . this is but an ill beginning ; and i do assure the reader all the rest is not a jot wiser . but , now come the notorious fallacies . why did i not say that all christians are traditionary ? or that all christians have gone upon this principle ? because many are call'd christians especially by him , who have deserted this principle , and so have no title to be call'd traditionary : but principally , because if we speak of true christians , that was the thing to be concluded ; for those men are not such , who disacknowledge a way of knowing christ's doctrin , which is prov'd to give them absolute certainty of it . so that it is a notorious fallacy , according to dr st's new logick , not to make the conclusion the very first proposition of an argument ; and the fallacy lies in judging that the last thing should not be the first . hitherto then this most learned logician has not taken one step , without stumbling into a manifest contradiction . one single clause is many clauses . self-evident propositions are notoriously fallacious . words , whose meaning have been particularly explain'd to him over and over , and so can have but one sense as we speak of them , may have many senses : adhering to and following tradition is not adhering to it and not following it , and the conclusion or end of an argument is to be the beginning of it , or the proof is to be the thing proved . nor is this any wonder : for 't is but fit that self-evident truths should only be oppos'd by self-evident contradictions . . after these noble performances , he falls into his old track of dividing and subdividing , he talks of evidence from the word of god , from the guides of the church , he runs to infallibly holding to tradition , ( not spoke of yet , but following in the argument ) he tells us they may go upon another rule &c. anticipating thus all the following discourse , and complaining all is not prov'd at once , when as we are as yet but at the very first words of the proof . there is no end of the faults and failings of these sinfull self-evident truths ; falshoods and contradictions are saints to 'em : it supposes falsly ( he says ) that the change in faith must be so sudden and remarkable , whereas it was graduall , and so to pitch upon such a precise and narrow compass of time is very unreasonable . lastly , to illustrate and compleat his answer with an instance , he tells us , that by the same method one may demonstrate it to be impossible that any language should be chang'd . by which we may gather that dr st's incomparable skill in philosophy , and deep inspection into the natures of things , makes account that truths are of the same nature with quantitative things or bodies . all corporeall motions , amongst the rest sounds or speaking , have a thousand indeterminate degrees between any two determinate points . does he think 't is so with truths and falshoods ? or does he imagin the thoughts of the christian world could take a walk of two or three hundred years between is and is not ? did he never hear that truths consist in an indivisible , that he thus compares them to quantitative or divisible natures , and judges the comparison so apposit ? putting then once the true notion of the points in the head and heart of the christian church , ( and , if they were never there the apostles lost their labour ) the least change in it must change the point . did he never reflect why a tenet is metaphorically call'd a point ? and that 't is because a point is indivisible ? the putting in the proposition [ to day and yesterday ] is to express the immediateness of tradition . others , amongst the rest the council of trent , and many of the fathers , particularly st. athanasius , call it [ delivering down by hands ] and the hands of the children must be immediate to the hands of their fathers , else the one could not receive what the other delivers . nor do i , or any man living , know how , if the whole church should be in an errour but one day , by deserting the rule of faith , they should ever retrieve true faith again , having forsaken the only way to it . of such consequence it is that the means of conveying down christ's faith be immediate , even from day to day . and thus dr st. has begun to answer mr g's demonstration , by keeping such a huge pother about a proposition evident by its own light , and pretending more faults in it than even a wise man could have shown in the arrantest falshood . but he has not done with it yet : the most essentiall part of it remains yet behind ; [ and so up to the time of our blessed saviour ] now the proposition speaks of believing the same all that while ; and he confutes it with talking of claiming and pretending to follow it . whence , since to believe the same that was deliver'd , is actually following tradition , his distinguishing talent has afforded us two sorts of following tradition : one which is really and indeed following it , the other is only pretending to follow it and not doing so ; that is , there is one sort of believing the same or of following tradition , which is not-following of it , which is still of the same learned strain . . the second proposition is [ and if they follow this rule they can never err in faith ] what says he to this ? if they follow this rule , that is , believe the same from christ's time that was taught at first , do not they believe the same christ taught ! one would verily think that this is as evident as 't is that , to believe the same is to believe the same . true , 't is so , and therefore 't is with him self-evidently a meer fallacy . certainly never was any mortall man such an enemy to common sense . but 't is his constant humour to talk big when he 's at a perfect nonplus . well , but how proves he 't is a meer fallacy . why . he grants that those who believe christ's doctrin cannot err. and is not this a rare answer ? we both grant that christ's doctrine is true , and consequently that who hold it cannot err : all this is presuppos'd to our question , and so is no part of it . but our point is how we shall know assuredly what is christs doctrin ? or by what means shall we come at it ? . he says , they might mistake in this rule ; it has been shown him , third cath. letter , p. , . . ▪ and in many other places upon occasion , that they could not mistake in this rule ; & he never takes notice of it in his whole answer , and yet has the confidence to object it afresh . . he says , they might follow another rule . this too has been prov'd against him , nay 't is here prov'd in the fourth proposition of this very argument ; for by proving they could not innovate in faith , 't is prov'd they ( that is the body or vniversality ) could not desert tradition . but what a shift is the dr put to ? do we contend here they could follow no other ? all the proposition pretends to is , that if they follow this rule they cannot err in faith. what says he to this ? can they , or can they not ? if they cannot , then the rule is a good rule , which is all we labour to prove here , the rest is prov'd in the fourth proposition . and if they can err , tho' following it then , since to follow it , is still to believe the same , the dr must say that the same faith tho' still convey'd down the same is not the same it self was at first ; which is a direct contradiction . not one single word of answer then to the proposition has he given us , only he affirms stoutly 't is fallacious ( a very cheap answer to any argument that is too crabbed and difficult ) but he cannot for his heart tell where the fallacy lies . the conclusion is naught , that he 's resolv'd on , but he has nothing that is pertinent to say to the premisses or proof . yet , something he must say for a shew ; and , so , he will shew some other ways that errours might come in . and perhaps i can shew him twenty more ; but , still , what 's this to the point ? can errours in faith come in while men follow this rule of tradition , that is while they continue to believe the same that was still taught immediately before , and this ever since christs time ? this is our only business . . since i must now run out of the way after our straggling disputant , i desire first the reader would remark , that the proposition he is now answering is this , [ if they follow this rule ( viz. tradition ) they can never err in faith ; ] as also that by [ tradition ] is meant the publick testimony of the church of — what was deliver'd as christs doctrine . his first particular way of introducing errours , is , by the authority of false teachers . but was tradition follow'd , while they follow'd their authority ? if it was , then the christian church was a false teacher , and her publick testimony attested false doctrin to be christs ; which if he holds , let him speak out , and see how all christians will detest him . if tradition was not follow'd but deserted when men were led by false teachers , what 's this to us ? or whom does it oppose ? for 't is plainly to abet tradition , to say that none could follow false teachers , but they must at the same time desert it. 't is hard to conjecture then what he meant by alledging de molinos unless it were to make his friend dr burnets book concerning molinos sell. 't is no news that false teachers may introduce errours ; and that that man pretended the publick testimony of the church , or that his whimsies were christ's doctrin deliver'd down from the beginning , is both unheard of and incredible . his second way of introducing errours , is by enthusiasm . very well . did the testimony of the christian church tell them that enthusiasm was christ's doctrin ? if he says it did , he makes the whole christian church in some age to have been a pack of hare-brain'd enthusiasts . if it did not , then 't is an honour to tradition that they deserted it when they fell into that spiritual madness . his third way is by a pretence to a more secret tradition . but was this pretence to a secret tradition a pretending to follow the publick tradition of the church ? if it was not , it opposes not our tradition but credits it . and if he says it was , then he makes what 's secret to be publick , which is a contradiction ; and the very alledging this makes him in some manner guilty of that old failing of his . his fourth is , differences among church-guides about the sense of scripture and tradition . i have * already shewn him that it was impossible the generality , especially of pastours , should not know the sense of tradition ; and , as for some church guides differing about the sense of scripture , it was equally impossible they should err in faith , as long as they interpreted scripture by the rule of the church's tradition ; and , when they once left that rule , instead of being any longer church-guides , they became generally if they were any thing , eminent ringleaders of heretical sects ; which gives a high repute to our tradition , even by their erring when they deserted it . his fifth way how errour might come in , is too great a veneration to some particular teachers — which made their disciples despise tradition in comparison of their notions . and were those men followers of tradition who despis'd it ? his th is , by compliance with some gentil superstitions , &c. but did tradition or the church's testimony deliver down to them these heathenish superstitions for christs doctrin ? or rather , would it not have preserv'd men from them , had nothing else been attended to but that rule ? his th and last is by implicit faith , that is , that when a man had found a faithfull guide to direct him , he should submit himself to be guided by him in things in which he could not guide himself . a very dangerous case indeed ! but the antidote to this malicious suggestion is , that the same church that they believ'd , condemn'd all new revelations , and adher'd only to what was deliver'd . he could have added an eighth way how errours in faith come in , had he pleas'd , and that too such a one , as had done a thousand times greater mischief than all the rest put together ; viz. private interpretations of scripture ; which every man knows has been the source of all the heresies since christ's time . but this being the sole ground of his faith , it was not his interest to let his readers know it had been the ground of all heresy . . but what 's all this to the point ? or how is the demonstration lost if many men err'd upon divers other accounts so none err'd while they follow'd tradition ? unless he proves this , he establishes our demonstrations by his shewing how multitudes err'd who were led by other motives and by his not being able to produce so much as one instance of any that err'd by adhering to it. what noise and triumph should we have had , could he have alledg'd so many hereticks sprung up by grounding their opinions on mistaken tradition , as 't is known have arisen by grounding their wicked tenets on misunderstood scripture ? but alas ! tho' that were exceedingly to his purpose , not one such instance could he bring . he talks a little faintly of the arians , pelagians , nestorians , &c. not disowning tradition . but does he hope to perswade any man of sense those upstarts durst ever go about to put out the eyes of the world by pretending their heresies were deliver'd down as christs doctrin by the publick testimony of the church in their days , or out-face the present church that she her self had taught them what she knew themselves had newly invented ? or would she have condemn'd them had they spoke her thoughts or follow'd her doctrin ? with what sense can any of this be imagin'd ? the tradition then which they went upon was citations of some former authors , which they misunderstood , ( the very method dr st. and his fellow-quoters take now a-days ) or else the judgment of a few foregoers ; of whom some might speak ambiguously , others perhaps hanker'd after their heresy . 't is very hard to guess what dr st. would be at in alledging so many ways how errour might be introduc't . that it might come in , and by various ways no man doubts . that it came in meerly by following tradition or the churches testimony he says not . that particular multitudes might be seduc't by deserting tradition , is equally granted , and needs no proof . and that it came in tho' men adher'd to tradition ( which was the true point ) he goes not about to prove nor seems so much as to think of . besides most of the ways he assigns if not all , are so many desertions of tradition which highly conduces to strengthen our argument ; while he impugns it : yet surely that could not be his intention neither . i cannot imagin then what all these seven formall heads are brought for , but to make a show of none knows what . sometimes , i incline to think he is combating the fourth proposition , proving the body of traditionary christians could not innovate in faith but either through forgetfulness or malice . and yet i cannot fix upon this neither ; both because he names not these two defects before he shows us his other ways of erring ; as also because we are not come as yet to the fourth proposition where all the stress lay , but have spent all our time in confuting the first and second , which were self-evident . but , if that be his meaning as he intimates p. . to escape replying to the fourth proposition , then let him know that , whatever his unsound principles say , whoever deserts the testimony of god's church whether by the authority , ( or rather no-authority ) of false teachers ; or , by enthusiasm , the root of which is spirituall pride ; or , by following secret traditions against the publick authority of the church ; or , by adhering to a sense of scripture contrary to what tradition allows ; or by too great a veneration to some particular teachers ; or by compliance with heathenish superstitions ; or , by whatever other motive , is guilty before god of a heinous sin , and it must spring from some degree of malicious or bad disposition in his heart . for he cannot but see that himself or his leader breaks the order of the world by disobeying , rising against and preferring himself before those whom god had set over him to feed , direct , instruct and govern him . of which order , and of the goods coming by it , and the mischiefs which attend the violating it , none of common sense , whom some by-affection has not blinded , can possibly be ignorant . . he concludes with these words [ if then errours might come into the church all these ways ; what a vain thing it is to pretend that orall tradition will keep from any possibility of errour ! ] ah , dr. dr ! where 's your love of moral honesty ? where 's your sincerity ? where your conscience ? did ever any man pretend that tradition will keep men from any possibility of errour whether they follow it or no ? were not our most express words put down by your self , p. . l. . . [ if they follow this rule they can never err in faith. ] and must those most important words be still omitted , and no notice taken of them but only in an absurd distinction , making * adhering to tradition or following it , to be not-following it ? is this solid answering or plain prevaricating ? again , what nonsense does he make us speak by omitting these words ? is it not a madness to say , a rule will direct them right that do not follow it ? that a means will bring a man to his end , who does not use it ? that a way will keep a man from straying in his journey who does not walk in it ? yet all these contradictions we must be guilty of by his leaving out the words [ if follow'd ] 't is pretty too upon review of his words to reflect on his craft [ 't is vain to pretend that orall tradition will keep — ] whom was it pretended to keep from any possibility of errour ? he should have added [ the followers of it ] but because he had slipt this all along , he leaves the sense imperfect , and the word [ keep ] must want the accusative case after it , due to its transitive sense by the laws of grammar , meerly to avoid his putting the right one , because it would have been unsutable to all his foregoing discourses , which never toucht it . but , since he speaks still what causes of errour he has shown , tho' i have already manifested , that all those causes were accompany'd with malice in the first deserters of tradition , yet to enforce our demonstration the more , i discourse thus . if tradition could be deserted or innovation in faith made by the generality of christians ( for none ever said or doubted but many particulars might do so ) it must either proceed from some defect in their vnderstandings or in their wills. a defect in the will is call'd badness or malice ; whence , if they willfully innovated , it must spring from some degree of malice . if in their understanding ; then it must either be in that power as apprehending , or knowing christ's doctrin ; or as retaining it . it could not be in the former , for none doubts but the body of the church , particularly the teachers who were to instruct the rest , did very well comprehend christ's doctrin in the beginning , and the many * clear ways tradition comprizes to deliver it down , renders faith intelligible still to each succeeding age. wherefore since the defect cannot be in their understanding or their having christ's doctrin in their hearts , it must be ( if any where ) in that knowing power as 't is retentive , that is in their memory . but , it was absolutely impossible the generality of the church should be so weak as to forget in any little determinate part of time ( by which immediate steps tradition proceeds ) what was taught and practis'd a little before ; or considering the motives to keep them firm to it ) so wicked as to conspire to alter it purposely . therefore whatever contingency there must be in some particulars , it could not be that the generality of the church should have alter'd it , or consequently , err'd in faith. wherefore this conclusion stands yet firm , the premisses remaining yet untoucht : since he neither shows nor can show more faculties in mankind engag'd in the perpetuating the former faith than these two. add , that he does not even attempt to show that the causes he produces can have the power to prevail or carry it against the force of tradition ; and , unless he does this , all he alledges signifies nothing . but his especiall reason why he gives no other answer ( he should have said none at all ) to our fourth proposition , is , because he intends to shew in a particular discourse , how the errours and corruptions he charges on the church of rome did come into it . that is , we cannot have an answer to two lines but by perusing a large book . i would desire him to resume the force of all his little testimonies , and conjecturall descants upon them , with which that book abounds , and to be sure they conclude the point ; which he shall never do . and unless he does this , he only shows he has taken a great deal of pains to no kind of purpose ; since he leaves a presum'd demonstration in its full force , without bringing so much as a pretended conclusive proof against it . indeed , it is a great shame for him to pretend it ; for 't is to profess publickly to the world that he can produce better arguments against the papists then he can for his own faith ; and that he cannot answer the argument , or say any thing to the premisses , yet he will revenge himself upon the naughty conclusion , when he catches it alone , and unback't with any proof for it . . next , he will prove that our way of resolving faith into christ's and his apostles teaching , by the infallibility of the church's human authority or tradition , is pelagianism . but never was such a malicious and silly charge so impotently defended . we were told ( says he ) that divine faith must have infallible grounds , and when we come to examin them we find nothing but what is naturall . here again our whole controversy is lost , and a new state of the question is obtruded . faith as 't is formally divine has for its grounds the divine authority ▪ but are we in our controversy examining it as 't is formally divine ? do either of us alledge miracles , or any arguments that proves it to be such ? is it not confest and suppos'd by both parties that the faith taught at first was divine ; and are we to examin what 's confest and granted ? or , that supposition being agreed to , have we any more to do , but to prove what was the doctrin taught at first , by assigning a certain method of conveying it down to us ? he proceeds ; and now to avoid the charge of pelagianism , this divine faith is declar'd to be meer human faith. alas for him ! does not divine faith stand yet on it's own bottom , the divine authority , because human authority , gives those who yet know it not , assurance of its derivation to us ? the immediate effect then of our tradition is human faith ; the remote effect is to give us knowledge of a doctrin of faith which is divine ; not prov'd to be such by tradition , but acknowledg'd to be so by our mutuall concession . but how shamelesly insincere the dr is to object that i chang'd this purposely to avoid the charge of pelagianism : whenas he knows i had told himself the same in errour nonplust , some years before any contest arose about my writings ? does he not cite my words here , that this human faith had by tradition , leads us to what 's divine ? human faith is the way or means to know divine faith ; and cannot we obtain the favour of him to intermit a while his constant nonsence , and allow the means to be distinguisht from the end ? he goes on : and so human faith must have infallible grounds , but divine faith must shift for it self . can any thing be more trifling ? what shifts is faith put to for grounds , taken as 't is formally divine , in a controversy which supposes it such ; in which case no proof nor grounds for it need be produc't ? do those that holds the infallibility of the churches humane authority deriving it down to us , deny but the verity of the mysteries thus deriv'd , as in themselves , depend on divine revelation as on their formall motives ? do not these two consist well together ? may not faith depend on the divine authority in it self , and as it was made known at first , and yet not be known to us who live now but by humane authority . can he be certain of christian faith by his own grounds , but by the book of scripture , and yet does not himself say , that the certainty he has of that book , depends on tradition or humane authority , and consequently that humane faith is the way to know divine faith ? what quacking then and mountebanking is this , to make me a pelagian for doing the same himself does and publickly avows ; omitting in the mean time my answers which at large * clear'd before-hand , all that he has here so weakly and insincerely objected ? lastly , he tells us , that if divine faith fixes not on the infallibility of tradition , then we may have divine faith without it . yes , by his enthusiastick principles , but not by connatural ways ; since himself must acknowledge that neither the letter nor sense of scripture is absolutely certain without it . . it would be very pleasant to see how this gallant caviller would prove st. paul a pelagian heretick . that blessed apostle affirm'd that fides per auditum , faith comes to our knowledge by hearing : for the certainty of the primitive faith was resolv'd into the certainty of the senses , as the means to come to the first knowledge of the doctrin , and of that sense more particularly , because preaching was the way of instilling faith then . now comes dr st. and ( having pray'd , i suppose for wisdom before-hand ) tells that holy apostle , that divine faith must have infallible grounds , but that the certainty of the senses is meerly natural ; that he runs from divine motives to humane ones . he asks him smartly , what infallible ground is there for this divine faith , and where it fixes ? if not on the certainty of the senses , then we may have divine faith without them . if it does fix on their certainty , then divine faith is to be resolv'd into naturall means . and what is this but pelagianism ? thus the stupendiously learned , and more then supernaturally enlighten'd dean of st. pauls , has clearly prov'd st. paul himself an arrant pelagian . but , if st. paul should answer as i do that he spoke not of divine faith , or the doctrin of it as in it self , or as 't is formally supernatural , but only of divine faith as standing under natural means for us to come to know it , then it would follow that it would require higher grounds to be resolv'd into as 't is divine , & yet , for all that , that he could have no faith at all , nor certainty of it , unless by miracle , but by virtue of these natural means to give him knowledge of it . but our verball controvertist never reflects that there may be divers resolutions made of faith as 't is controverted , according to the nature or exigency of the dispute . against a deist that holds it not divine , it is to be resolv'd into the divine authority , and this must be shewn to be engag'd for it , by those motives of credibility which prove it to be such . but this is quite besides our present dispute , since both parties grant it ; and , consequently all his discourse here is quite besides the purpose . . i doubt not but the dr would have had another fling at st. paul for pelagianism , in case he would not allow that a pious disposition of the will did make the verdict of the sense of hearing certain , and piece out the deafishness of the auditours , when that sense had some imperfection ; as he does here , by making me a pelagian for saying the will 's assistance cannot make an argument if it be defective . especially should we both say , that dr st's moral qualifications , purity of heart , humility of mind , and prayer for wisdom , would not make a deaf ear hear well , or a bad argument conclude . for both our cases are perfectly parallel ; since we both speak of the way to come at the knowledge of divine faith. but his logick , i see , would have his readers ( when an argument drawn from meer nature is propos'd which is short of concluding , let it be in physicks , metaphysicks , or what he will , for it alters not our case ) shake their heads very piously , and answer [ truly sir , tho' i see your reason does not conclude , or satisfy my understanding , that the thing you would prove is true , yet out of a pious inclination to the cause , i will call in my wills assistance , and out of pure goodness think it does conclude , and that the thing is for all that , really true. i would wish him by all means to maintain still that 't is pelagianism to deny that the inconclusiveness of an argument is supply'd by the kind-heartedness of the will. nothing in the world but this can justify all his insignificant proofs , & make them pass for valid & good ones . 't is ridiculous he says , to alledge that i resolve all into christ's and the apostles teaching . why ? is it not agreed on between us , that christ is god , and his doctrine divine ? and is not this to bring us to divine faith , if we prove it to be his doctrine ? or is it not enough for our purpose when 't is confess'd on both sides that christ's doctrine is divine ? why is it then ridiculous to profess we do this ? because caelestius & pelagius did the very same . and so i must be a pelagian still ; that 's resolv'd on . those hereticks did indeed pretend their heresies were christ's doctrin ; but this is no particularity in them , for every heretick since christ's time did the same ; else they had not been hereticks , but pagans , iews , turks , or deists : but , we go no further upon this principle than they did . why ? did they ever alledge , that the tradition or immediate testimony of the body of the church , deliver'd down their doctrin for christ's ? or durst they disgrace themselves by going about to avail themselves of such an open and notorious lye ? this he should have prov'd solidly and clearly : but , instead of proving it , he barely says it ; and who will at this time of day believe his word ? and yet , if he does not this , every sincere reader must see that he has sacrific'd his sincerity to his spite against catholicks , and judges slander and calumny no sin. observe here by the way his consistency with himself . in his second letter to mr g. p. . he affirm'd , that we resolv'd all into meer humane faith ; and here he confesses we resolve all into christ's and his apostles teaching . had not i then good reason to ask him if christ was a meer man , it falling in so naturally ? yet he is mighty angry at those words , and says he gave no occasion for them , and imputes it to malice . i do assure him that i us'd those words to shew that by resolving all into christ's teaching , i resolv'd faith finally into what is confessedly divine . why he should take it so to heart , or apply it to himself when it was not in the least intended , his conscience best knows . however , it puts him to make a profession of his faith in that point ; which i heartily pray may be sincere . . the last point which he thinks fit to take notice of , omitting ( by his favour ) many which were more concerning , is , that the council of trent * disowns a power of making implicit articles of faith contain'd in scripture to become explicit by its explaining the sense of them . he proves this , because the church of rome doth not pretend to make new articles of faith , whereas to make implicit doctrines to become explicit , is really so to do . this a little varies from what he said in his second letter ; nor can i find a word of making new articles of faith pretended there , and i am sure there are none such in that place . yet still he would put it upon the council to introduce some articles by new explications of scripture ; but he only says it , not proves it ; and so , till proof comes , let it rest upon his bare word , which signifies little . other answers i have given to this point , ( third cath. letter , p. . . ) which since he has taken no notice of , i shall presume they stand good in their full force . . he concludes with these words , [ but , because the council of trent doth pretend to apostolical tradition for the points there determin'd , and the shewing that it had not catholick and apostolick tradition , is the most effectual confutation of the present pretence of oral tradition , i shall reserve that to another discourse ; part whereof , i hope , will suddenly be publish't . ] now who sees not that , since a demonstration for the infallibility of tradition is the most effectual , and most compendious proof that is imaginable ; and unless it be answer'd , most necessarily concludes the descent of that faith from christ which is held upon it ; and that the evidence of such a proof consisting in the necessary connexion of the terms which are us'd in it , has the self-same force whether the council of trent , or any council , had ever been held , or not ; who sees not , i say , that this is a meer plausible shift to avoid the shock of our arguments and to run the field by the still-necessary ; and still friendly assistance of his former bad logick , viz. of arguing against the conclusion instead of answering the premisses ? and , therefore , that his proper conclusion , had he spoken out candidly , should have been this . [ but , because i was neither able to shew the absolute certainty of christian faith by my principles , nor to make out , that the rule i have assign'd does influence any point of faith , so as to prove it to be absolutely certain , that 't is christs doctrin ; nor yet able to answer their close arguments against the absolute certainty of mine , or for the absolute certainty of the catholique faith , therefore to come off handsomely before i utterly lose my credit , i think it the safest and wisest expedient to let the premisses alone or pass over them with some sleight touches , and to combat the conclusion by quoting of authors , and tacking the two disperate matters together as well as i can , so to make a kind of transition from the one to the other , i will set my self to write against the council of trent . a business which will take mightily in this iuncture ; nor will many readers much concern themselves in case they should observe it , how i have dropt the question , or shrunk away from my adversary . ] and so a good journey to the drs ▪ rambling pen , till i meet him next in the field where we fought last : whither , in the behalf of christian faith , whose certainty he has here vndermin'd i do recall and challenge him . the concluding section . hitherto of doctor st's sins of commission ; viz. of his groundless and impertinent calumnies , his manifest falshoods against his own knowledge , his constant prevarication from the question in every respect , and this quite thorough his whole answer ; his bad logick laid open in many instances , his shifts and evasions , his paralogisms , cavils and contradictions . now follow his sins of omission . by which i do not mean his failing to give a good answer to those arguments he thought fit to take notice of ; for this , as has been shewn in every particular , would spread one universal blot over his whole book ; but his not so much as attempting to give the reasons i alledg'd to prove them , or other particular omissions charg'd upon him , any answer at all , or taking the least notice of them . . to begin with my first catholick letter , or the answer to dr. st's first letter to mr. g. why might we not know the particular reason how mr. t came to be satisfy'd ; this being of such special concern , and laying so precise an obligation upon us to clear that point ? but changing his making a secret of mr. t 's convincing reason , which was requir'd of him , p. . . into his making a secret of the ground of his certainty , ( p. . ) why did he turn it off to mr. g. to shew that the doctor 's protestants have not absolute certainty of their faith , when as he had taken it upon himself to shew they had ? but instead of giving a reason for that carriage of his , to deny his own express words ( first letter , p. . ) which put the proof upon mr. g. and then , to turn absolute certainty of his protestant faith , which consists of a determinate number of points , into certainty of scripture ; which perhaps may not signify so much as one point of faith , unless he shew absolute certainty that the letter of it is rightly understood in those texts that contain those points ? which he is so far from shewing that he not so much as goes about it . why no reply to our proof that mr. g. has , by doing his own work , at the same time perform'd what the doctor would needs have put him upon ; viz. prov'd that doctor st's church has no certainty of its faith ? why conceal'd he the true meaning of the word [ traditionary ] given by us , but took it purposely in another sense , and then rally'd upon it ? why no notice taken of our explication of those words [ if they follow'd this rule ] declar'd by us to mean the [ believing still the same ] which had forestall'd his ill-grounded descant upon them ( p. . . ) and why no regard to that most important conditional proposition , but starting aside to ways how errours might come in by not following it ; which instead of answering , asserts and makes good our tenet ? why no reply to our several reasons brought against his intollerably bad logick , shewing at large from many heads the absurdity of it , and that the subject of our argument , as impugn'd by his instance , was not at all like zeno's denying of motion ; which reasons had prevented and utterly defeated his pittifull defence of it here ? why nothing to the unavoidable force of our argument , manifesting it to be self-evident that tradition is a certain rule ? why does he not justify his palpable prevarication from the whole question laid out at large & prov'd against him , p. . . why not a word of answer to my discourse shewing absolute certainty & infallibility to be the same ? why does he no where distinguish himself & his protestants from all sorts of hereticks owning the same common rule ; by shewing us by what particular means he is more certain of the true sense of scripture then they were , and thence differenc't from them by his having some particular rule or way to arrive at true faith which they had not ; this being a point of the highest importance in our controversy , and most earnestly prest upon him over and over ? and yet for all his flourishes about criterions he has said nothing to those reasons , only he has made a sleight discourse of his own , p. . . but never shew'd any particular means securing his party from erring , more than the vilest hereticks us'd . why little or no regard to my reasons shewing that scripture interpretable by their private judgment of discretion is not the rule which the generality of protestants rely on ; which , if true , utterly overthrows his whole pretence to that for his rule ? he blunders indeed about it in clear words , and tells his own tale very prettily ; but he has not answer'd my reasons , as the reader may discern , who is pleas'd to compare them with his reply . lastly , why no answer to each particular proposition of my short discourse , or shewn it inconnected , demonstrating that none who follow'd his rule can have assurance that what they believe is christ's doctrin ▪ but instead of this duty , bringing pretended false suppositions against the whole , which suppos'd nothing but that we could have no more reason to judge the socinians insincere , or careless , or less skilfull in the sense of words than we have to think he is ? . these are his omissions in answering my first catholick letter . as for my second ; since his title pretends an answer to them all in generall , and he referrs us to another able to speak for himself , meaning his reflecter , we are to imagin he makes account he has answer'd them all , by himself or by his proxy , but , good god! what an answer has that weak man given us ? his discourse is a chain of sand. 't is a mess of controversy dish't up in sippets ; a meer hash of repartees , or reason torn into raggs . a discourse , as every man knows , has it's true force by the constant tenour of it ; and this tenour is shatter'd all to pieces by a new invented method of short dialogues ; where he makes me , at his pleasure , say as little at a time as he lists , and he plays upon it as much as he pleases : i must break-off just where he thinks fitting , and he enlarge against an imperfect discourse , unassisted by it's comparts , as long as he judges convenient . now he 's at the beginning of my book , and immediately at the middle or end of it ; gathering thrums-ends of little sentences , which he patches together so aukwardly that they have no connexion at all but what his unskillfull or partiall hand bestows upon them . if we expect reason from him , he tells us he never undertook to prove but to reflect . a very pretty come off ! i wonder what answer is proper to a man who proves nothing , nay not so much as vndertook it ! thus much for his method : but the tricks and shifts in managing it are innumerable : 't is almost as easy to determin how many words may be made of the four and twenty letters , as to trace all the anagrams he makes of my sense , by weaving it in his loom to sute his own fancy or interest . when our question is only about a certain rule of faith , he alters it when he lists , to a certain rule of life ( p. . ) as if we pretended scripture not clear in morall points : by which means he turns the whole question to a quite different subject . his contradictions are frequent , for he never speaks of the nature of any thing that concerns our dispute but he constantly falls into that irrecoverable lapse . as he turn'd the precise duty of proving into the needless impertinency of reflecting , so tell him of falsifications he tells you ( p. . ) he meant them for ironies . and , indeed his whole reflexionary ( if i may call it so ) is nothing but a continu'd irony ; it being very hard to know when he 's in jest , when in earnest : only he garnishes his scorn with demure pretences of charity and civility , that so he may affront his adversary with a more plausible garb of affected gravity and godliness . . as for the strength of his reasons , since one instance is held by dr st. and him a competent answer to a pretended demonstration , i hope one pregnant instance how he quite misses the whole matter in hand , may be allow'd sufficient to render insignificant his hopping and skipping dialogues , by shewing plainly that his ill-levell'd reflexions hit not me , but squint aside to other subjects . e're i come to my instance , i desire the reader to bear in remembrance ( for i cannot repeat it too often because my adversary is resolv'd never to take notice of it ) that , our controversy supposes as agreed to by both parties that christ's doctrin is divine , and that our whole question is about the means to bring down to us those sublime spiritual articles of christian faith , with such a certainty and clearness as may oblige us to assent firmly and unalterably , that what we hold concerning them now at present is the self-same that was taught by him and his apostles ; and consequently is divine and true. next , we affirm that the letter of scripture not being clear to people of all sorts looking after christ's true doctrin , in those texts which relate to such high points , the best way to satisfy such men that those articles came down invariably from christ is the humane authority of the christian church . and , lastly , that the credibleness of this authority is prov'd by intrinsical mediums , taken from the natures of things lying levell to our reason , which contribute to support it from being liable to be deceiv'd or to deceive us in that affair : viz. from the nature of man , who being a rational creature cannot possibly act without a motive or a reason ; and is withall endow'd with such and such faculties belonging to such a nature ; as also from the practical nature , & highest import of the doctrin to be deliver'd , and the nature of those most powerfull motives obliging the generality to whom they are apply'd , to transmit down faithfully a doctrin held divine ; and , lastly , from the nature of divers circumstances of the universe . all which are laid out in my second cath. letter , p. . . . . to which nothing but a very sleight return ( with many omissions ) has been given us by him , and nothing at all by dr st. tho' these ( as the reader may see if he pleases to review them ) be the most forcible part of that treatise to prove the uninterrupted perpetuity of tradition hitherto , on which the resolution of our grand question mainly depends . 't is enough , it seems , for such a trifling reflecter , at the end of his pamphlet , to call the passages he has omitted , amongst which are the natures of those things , hedges and puddles ; and close reasons drawn from them frisking fancies ; and that 's all can justly be expected from one who seems to be a sworn schollar to the great professor of learned jests and ingenious prevarications . . these particulars concerning our tenet , known to all that have read our controversy , being reflected on , let 's see how this gentleman represents it , and how profoundly he discourses against us . in his th page he will needs repeat our tenet , or ( as he with much formality is pleas'd to call it ) the lesson i have taught him : which , put into distinct sentences , he makes to be this . . your churches authority is human authority . answ. our church'es authority is also divine , and as such 't is the rule of faith to those who are already faithfull : but in our controversy , which is about the way for men to come to faith , 't is not proper to alledge any other than her natural or humane authority , consisting of a vast body of men both able and oblig'd to testify such open matters of fact as is the delivery of a doctrin so qualify'd by those that educated us ; and the reason is because 'till men come at christ's faith they can only guide themselves by their reason ; whence the credibility of that authority must be provable by reason against those who shall deny it . . he says , it has force to prove the truths which depend upon it . yes ; it has force to prove to us this matter of fact , that those truths descended from christ ; but not the intrinsical truth of any one article in it self . to do this is the work of divine revelation , not of humane authority . . it has this force and concludes against such as own its veracity , but it deserves no assent further than reason gives it to deserve . well then , since we bid him guide himself by his reason e're he admits it , will he at least admit it and yield assent to it , when reason shews him it deserves it ? this is all we desire of him ; and 't is a very reasonable request in us , for it only desires he would not renounce his reason and forfeit his manhood . now come his conclusions from mistaken premisses : hence i conclude , seeing we admit not your church'es authority , nor own its veracity it proves nothing to us nor concludes any thing against us . from what antecedent is this conclusion drawn ? did we ever press him to admit it blindly ; the point is , will he renounce his reason when it tells him this authority ought to be believ'd ? this is our tenet and should have been taken in e're he had inferr'd any thing at all : but then it would have marr'd his conclusion and his admirable method of taking every discourse of mine to pieces and never putting it together again , and so it was thought expedient to neglect it . his next conclusion is , seeing articles of faith depend not on humane authority , your church'es authority can have no effect on humane nature to oblige to a belief of them . where we have near as many faults as words . for , first , articles of faith in themselves or as to their intrinsicall verity , depend only on the divine authority as their formall motive ; but , as to us , or as to our knowledge of those articles now , which were taught by christ long since ( which is our only business ) a successive human authority , the most strongly supported of any that ever was in the world to convey down a matter of fact of infinit concern , is the properest way to attest them ; whence all those articles , in that regard do depend on that human authority , after the same manner as even himself also holds the book of scripture does . secondly , what an incredible folly is it , not to distinguish between those articles which were taught at first , ( and , so , are divine ) as in themselves , and the same articles as knowable by us now to have been taught long ago ? nor to reflect that our controversy only treats of them under this latter consideration ? nor to know that , as thus consider'd , all articles of faith not only may but must necessarily depend on human or naturall means , since without such they cannot be introduc't into our understandings connaturally , nor by any way but by immediate inspiration , which is perfect enthusiasm ? nor lastly , not to advert that even the divinity of faith depends , in some sort , on naturall means ? st. paul tells us faith comes by hearing ; and , if so , then faith depended on hearing as to its coming to be known by us . nay , as christian faith was formally from god , it depended thus on miracles , which could not be known to be such but by their being above the course of nature ; nor could they be known to be above the course of nature unless the course of nature it self had been fore-known , the knowledge of which is only naturall or human. thirdly , his following words in this ridiculous conclusion , shew him utterly ignorant of our whole question ; otherwise he could not with any degree of sincerity have put it upon us , that we hold the human authority of our church obliges to a belief of the articles themselves ; whereas what we hold is , that it only obliges us to assent they came from christ , or were inerrably deliver'd down by the churche's testimony . fourthly , by leaving out all mention of what 's most particularly our tenet in this point , he puts it upon us to hold that human authority has effect upon human nature of it self ; whereas we never presum'd or affirm'd it either had or ought to have any but by vertue of the reasons which vouch't for its veracity , nay , i both affirm'd and prov'd the direct contrary . his third conclusion is , seeing all its credit depends on its intrinsicall reasons produc't , till they be produc't we are not bound to give any credit to it . no , nor bound to mind them much it seems , nor answer them fully when produc't ; as appears by his omitting the most forcible reasons for the certainty of tradition's continuance as was lately shown . but why is this made a distinct conclusion or disjoynted from the rest , whereas it was the most necessary and essentiall part of our true tenet ? because the method he so religiously observ'd throughout his dialogue-answer , which is to shatter asunder the intire sense of every passage , would not allow it . his fourth conclusion is , when these reasons shall be produc't , its testimony has but the nature of an externall motive , not of an intrinsicall ground . answ. intrinsicall ground ? to what ? to christian faith as 't is divine ? 't was never pretended , nor can it belong in any regard to our question , since 't is not disputed between us , but acknowledg'd by us both , that christ's doctrin is such . means he then 't is not a proper medium to prove christ's faith deriv'd to us who live now ? how can he even pretend to shew that so vast a testimony is not proper to attest a notorious matter of fact , viz. what doctrin was deliver'd immediately before , and this throughout every age , year , or day ? again , what means he when he says , testimony is not an intrinsicall ground ? what man in his senses ever said or thought it ? we spoke indeed of intrinsicall grounds to prove the credibleness of that testimony , but not a word have we even hinting that testimony it self is an intrinsical ground to any thing . if he will needs be talking nonsense let him take it to himself , and not put it upon me . lastly , why is not an extrinsicall ground or testimony prov'd to be such by intrinsicall reasons sufficient in our case ? this should have been shewn , but for this very reason 't is not so much as taken notice of either by him or his master . in a word , he uses some of our words , taken asunder from the context of our intire sense ; then blends them confusedly together on any fashion , without any kind of order or respect to the true question ; he gives us relative words without telling us what they relate to ; he puts upon us tenets we never advanc't or held , but the direct contrary . and the witty gentleman would still persuade his reader he is repeating his lesson i have taught him , when as all the while he deserves more then a ferula for his rehearsing it wrong , or rather saying it backwards . then follows his grand conclusion as the flower of all the foregoing ones , which we may be sure hits the point exactly ; and therefore ( says he ) either your position overthrows your churche's authority , or it your position . most excellent ? my position is about tradition which is the self-same thing with the churche's authority ; and this precious scribbler will needs have the same thing to destroy it self . a fit upshot for a discourse without sence . . we see by this one instance there is scarce one line , nor many significant words in this half-page of his , but runs upon enormous mistakes . and , does he think i have nothing else to do but to stand rectifying still what he all along takes such care and pains to put into disorder ? especially , since those few things that are pertinent , are abundantly spoke to in my third catholick letter , and this present reply . i must intreat the dr to excuse me if i have no mind to break his young controvertists , and teach them how to manage . mr g. did him , i hope , no disparagement in making me his substitute ; but 't is not so gentile in him to set such a fresh man upon my back . i 'le have nothing to do with his little iourney-men or apprentices till the world be satisfy'd that their master himself is a better artist . and , if it shall appear that even the learned dr st. is able to make nothing of so bad a cause , 't is neither discreditable to me nor any disadvantage to the truth i am defending , if i neglect such a sixth-rate writer who confesses himself unworthy to carry his books after him . . the omissions in answering my second catholick letter are as many as that letter it self contains : since his untoward method renders all his talk , twitching and girding at little sayings of mine , utterly insignificant . whence , that whole treatise as 't is in it self , stands yet intire , unless the dr can shew by his new logick that to mince half a book into fragments is to answer the whole . . thus the dr has trickt off the answering my second cath. letter . but his omissions in answering the third are both numerous and most highly important , and he is to render an account of all this long roll of his neglects . why did he not clear himself of his altering there the notion of tradition into articles and powers of doing this or that , * shewn at large , p. . . why answers he not the several reasons , proving against him , that tradition brings down the sense of christ's doctrin , and not only common words ; in the clear delivery of which sense consists one of the main properties of a rule , viz. its plainness to people of all sorts who are to be regulated by it ? and why , instead of performing this necessary duty , does he ( p. . ) after having vapour'd that 't is bravely said if it could be made out , does he not so much as mention the reasons by which it was made out ; but ramble into such nonsense ( p. . ) that he and his party ( who are deserters of tradition ) cannot mistake it ; that tradition ( or the church'es human testimony ) being the rule of faith is a part of christ's doctrin , &c. why no excuse for his deforming the meaning of that plain word [ tradition ] into many unsutable significations , and putting it in all shapes but its own ? why no defence of his most ridiculous drollery , in paralleling tradition or the testimony of god's church to the relation of two or three partial witnesses of his own side in favour of their fellows ? or for his inconsonancy to himself & his insincerity in thus perverting it still when he was to impugn it ; whenas he took it very right when it made for himself ? why not a word to my clearest demonstration , that 't is impossible but tradition must bring down a determinate sense of the tenets it delivers , which he answers not at all , but only brings against conclusion an instance of the corinthians and arlemonites ( p. . . ) which as far as it pretends they pleaded tradition for their heresy , ( taking tradition as we do for the immediate testimony of the church ) is both false and senseless . why no answer at all to that most concerning point prov'd against him , that the church has power to declare diverse propositions to be of faith , not held distinctly before , without any prejudice at all to tradition ? and why no notice taken of my most evident proof that we make christian faith as 't is formally divine rely on the divine authority , notwithstanding our tenet , that the church'es humane authority is the means to bring us to the knowledge of christ's doctrin ; and that the asserting this later is not to overthrow the church'es authority in matters of faith , as he objected ? as also that the venerable f. w. was not an adversary to our way , and that lominus his book the dr rely'd on was no argument that my doctrin was faulty even in the opinion of my judges ; why gave he no reply to any of these , but still run on with his former calumnies , as if nothing had been produc't to shew his manifest and wilfull mistakes ? why no answer to my reasons proving at large the impotency of his malice in charging pelagianism , more than to repeat a few of words for a shew , that this humane authority leads us to what 's divine , and there stopping ; whereas the very * next words [ yet not by its own force but by vertue of the supposition agreed upon that christ's doctrin is such ] had spoil'd all his pretence ? why no notice taken of my citation out of errour nonplust writ against himself fifteen years ago ; which forestall'd all his rambling mistakes , and by consequence , shew'd him strangely insincere , in dissembling his knowledge of my tenet so expressly declar'd . . why no plea alledg'd to justify his shuffle from the grounds of his protestant faith in particular to the grounds of christian faith in common ; nor to excuse his next shuffle , and nonsense to boot , in making [ faith ] by vertue of an id est , to signify the grounds for his ground of faith ; and turning [ certainty of scripture ] into a long ramble , viz. into [ certainty of the grounds on which we believe scripture to contain the word of god. ] why not a word of reply to my discourses , there and in many other places , shewing that scripture's containing faith is nothing at all to our purpose , but the getting out from scripture it 's true meaning or sense , this only being our faith ; and that his faith is still vncertain unless there be certainty that such and such articles are contain'd there . which point tho' it be of the highest consequence , yet he never sets himself to solve our arguments against it , in his whole pretended answer ; but he runs on still in the same errour , as if nothing had been alledg'd to shew his discourses insignificant and frivolous ! why no answer to my discourse proving that a rule or ground is none , if it carry not thorough to the particular points , especially to those which are most fundamentall , unless granting it in effect ( p. . ) and allowing no absolute certainty to any particular point of faith , may be called an answer ? why no excuse for his skewing comment upon his own answer ( which spoke of absolute certainty of all christ's doctrin , which consists of such and such particular tenets ) to the writings of the apostles ; whereas there was not a word of writing in mr. g's question or in his own answer either ? nor any notice taken of my argument , manifesting that a resolution of faith speaks connexion of the motives that are to prove it christ's doctrin , to the points of faith ; laid home to him in a close discourse demonstrating the necessity it should be such . why no account of his distinguishing between christ's doctrin and that of the apostles ; that so he might mis-represent tradition , and alter the question from a publick to a private delivery ? why no reason given of his not resolving his faith into the apostles preaching , but only into their writing ; i mean , no answer to my reasons why he ought to have resolv'd it into the former , at least , equally ? why no answer to my reasons , shewing from his ill-laid principles , that perfect contradictories , points of faith and wicked heresies , opposit to them , are both equally certain ? why no excuse for his shuffling from the new testament's containing all the divine revelations , to the church'es making men fix by degrees upon the certain canon of it , which is there shewn ( and indeed appears of it self ) to be a quite disparate business ? why not the least excuse for his most abominable four-fold prevarication in answering to one single question , expos'd there at large ; and why no defence or particular explication of his beloved sufficient certainty , nor any application of it to the nature , ends , and uses of a firm faith , that any point is christ's true doctrin , shewing that his feeble motives are sufficient for those particular purposes ? why , to make his odd similitude of scripture's being a purse , apposit , does he not shew us some certain way , how the gold and silver points of faith ( as he calls them ) may be got out of it , without danger of extracting thence the impure dross of errour and heresy instead of true faith ? again , to make it square , why does he not rather make the heads and hearts of the first faithfull the purses , since ( as was shewn him ) faith is more properly contain'd there than in a book ? or , if he will needs make use of an improper container of faith too , why does not he put two purses ; viz. the souls of the faithfull , and the scripture ? and why not a word of reply to my plain reasons why he ought to have done both these ? why no answer to my reasons proving that all the points of faith are necessary for the salvation of mankind , and for the church ; otherwise than by rambling to transubstantiation ( p. . ) and that he sees no necessity of it : which makes his often-alledg'd distinction of necessary & unnecessary points , brought to avoid the question , perfectly frivolous ; and why runs he still on with the same distinction in this pretended answer without taking off the exceptions against it , by only crying alas for him ! when i askt him , if christ taught any unnecessary articles : and by saying they are not equally necessary , p. . why nothing to justify that his assent of faith may not be false , and so , no faith ? why no reply to my reasons , that , notwithstanding his pretended grounds , he has no absolute certainty that even the letter of scripture is right ; whereas , if it be not , he can have no certainty but all is wrong that is grounded upon it ; since , in that case he may embrace a grand heresy for true faith ? why no answer to my plainest argument , shewing how christ's doctrin , continu'd all along in the breast of the church , is the best means to correct the letter in texts that contain faith ? why no reply to my many reasons , shewing that the ancient church allow'd our way of tradition , and disallow'd his of scripture privately interpreted ? why does he not confute my discourses , manifesting that he can have no absolute certainty by his principles of the number of books ; or of each chapter , verse , and material word in each verse that concerns any point of faith ; without doing which , he cannot pretend to have certainty of the letter , nor , consequently , of any one of those points ? why no reply to that important objection , that if scripture were the rule of faith , the primitive church had , for some time , but half or three-quarters of their faith , or less , ( and so , by his principles , were but three-quarters or half christians ) according as the several pieces came by degrees to be spread , accepted , or universally acknowledg'd ; nay perhaps no faith at all , as was there shewn ; and why did , he instead of replying , * turn it off to the single epistle to the hebrews , and to an insignificant if ? why , when it was objected that divers of his christian churches doubted of divers books of scripture , and some late brethren of his of some others , does he again turn it off ( as to the former ) to the canon of scripture made afterwards ; and to the later says nothing ? why not a word to my clearest proof that our tradition or testimony for doctrin is incomparably more large in its source , which gives it its chief force , than his is for scripture's letter ? why does he not clear himself of his preferring his sober enquirer before the church , the unreasonableness of which was urg'd home against him , nor justify his weak discourses in some sleigter passages laid open , p. . . why not a syllable of answer to that most highly-concerning discourse , and which , if it stands in its full force , overthrows all the whole fabrick of his doctrin , viz. that a rule or ground are relative words , and therefore scriptures letter cannot be an absolute certain rule or ground , unless its ascertaining virtue affects the articles known by it ? this point has been prest upon him so vigorously , and pursu'd with so many forcible arguments that there can be no plainer confession that his cause is lost than not to attempt to answer them ; especially , since the hinge of the whole controversy depends upon it . it was his concern too to avow or disavow his dear friend dr. burnet's position , making his sober enquirer judge of councils ; but he would not be so candid . why declines he the giving us satisfaction that he does indeed hold the testimony for scripture absolutely certain , by making out from the nature of the things why it must be so ? see , reader , how it was there demanded of him and urg'd upon him to do himself and his faith that honour and credit ; yet he is perfectly deaf to all sollicitations of that kind . and the reason is , because , should should he do this as he ought to do , he must necessarily make the church infallible , and rely upon her infallibility for the certainty of scriptures letter ; and should it come to be prov'd that 't is easier to transmit down the same doctrin than an exact copy , this would oblige his sober enquirer to be led by her in matters of faith. a condescendence not to be submitted to by his fanatick friends ; both because their first principle is to think themselves wiser than the church ; as also , because to prove this would make the knowledge of christ's doctrin too strong by proofs and outward means , which their gifted and inspir'd genius ( impossible ever to be prov'd but by doing miracles ) cannot away with . to proceed , why clears he not himself from being oblig'd by his principles to own a brotherhood with all hereticks who profess to follow scripture as much as he does ; by shewing some absolutely certain means to distinguish his faith from theirs ; did not the doing this mainly concern his credit , when it was severely objected , and shewn that he had given just occasion for this suspition of all comprehending principles ? why no account given of the absolute certainty of particular texts , and the most significant words in each of them , as well as of the canon or number of books ; without which , let the canon be as certain as it will , 't is impossible for him to know assuredly whether what he holds be true faith or heresy ? why no answer to my objection that to be the word of god is not sufficient to make scripture a rule , unless it has withall perspicuity or clearness , to give those who read it and rely on it , absolute certainty of its true sense , or faith , in those high mysteries and spiritual points controverted between the church and her deserters ? why no reply to my confutation of his smartest or rather only argument to prove scripture a rule , given by me particularly to every branch of it ? is not a business of such high consequence worth his defence , his whole cause , ( as far as 't is manag'd by him ) standing or falling by his maintaining or deserting that main proof for it ? why does he give us no grounds that elevate faith ( as it depends on the rule ascertaining us it came from christ ) above opinion ; whenas it was charg'd upon him that he had no such grounds , and he was loudly call'd upon to produce them ; but to aggravate the fault , to call here ( p. . ) all the points of christian faith ( there spoken of ) particular opinions ? why takes he no notice of the several senses of the word [ rule ] and in which of those senses it is taken properly , and why it must necessarily be taken in such a sense in our controversy ; but instead of doing this , run on wilfully mistaking it still ? why not a word in confutation of an infallible iudge , as that point is stated by me ? why did he not accept my challenge that he could not shew me any one solid proof in his whole treatise that he could maintain ; since the doing this had been a great blurr to me , and a high credit to himself ; nay the very offering at it , might have kept our readers in some suspence whether he were perfectly baffled or no , whenas his total declining it is a plain confession he does not think fit to stand to any one proof he has produc't ? why no reply to my discourse demonstrating that a rule must be the immediate light to know the thing in order to which 't is to regulate us ; and , therefore , that , however he pretends to scripture , yet his own interpretation , or the means he uses to interpret it , is unavoidably his rule ? as also that the testimony of all christian churches did not recommend to him such a rule of faith ; and that a testimony for the letter confess'd by himself to be fallible , stood in great need of his logick to make what 's built on it to be absolutely certain ? why not a word to the testimony of that antient and holy father , and most solid controvertist , st. athanasius ; which quite overthrows the whole scheme of his doctrin , and makes all his sober enquirers unbelievers or infidels ? and why no excuse for his not putting amongst his helps the iudgment of the present church , at least of the church of england ; ( this being both an easier help than 't is to use his other painfull methods to understand scripture right , & more agreeable to the order of the world . ) especially , since he stands impeacht of destroying church-government as to any thing belonging to faith ? why does not he shew us how mr t. could be a sober enquirer , whom he defends for so suddenly settling his enquiry and resolving , tho' he did not use those means which the dr himself affirm'd his sober enquirers were bound to use ; especially , since this carriage of the dr's shews him very willing to contradict at pleasure even his own principles , and to dispense with those obligations he himself had impos'd , when it suits with his interest ? whence every considering man must necessarily conclude he holds not heartily and steadily to any principle at all . why should not his sober enquirers trust the church rather than themselves ; and why no answer to the reasons why they should ? why does not he confute my discourse , proving that a judge proceeding upon an inerrable rule is infallible ; and that 't is no prejudice to the church , that those whom she has cast out , or are her enemies , deny her to be such ? why answers he not my particular reasons against his kind of judgment of discretion , or the reasons given for ours , but makes impertinent discourses of his own at random , without regarding either our objections , or our proofs ; nay , when he had occasion , without acknowledging their distinction , but most unconscionably pretending them to be the same ; whereas their difference and perfect opposition to one another , is laid out there very largely and particularly . and now , gentlemen , i request even those who are the most partial of his friends to count over the pages cited in the margent ; and , if you find by an exact review that i have neither misreckon'd them , nor misrepresented his answers ; be pleas'd to frame thence an impartial judgment of his prodigious confidence in pretending in his title that this every-way-defective treatise is , in answer to my catholick letters ; whereas he has given no answer at all ( to speak with the least ) to the fortieth part of them ; and , as for that small inconsiderable pittance he has attempted to reply to , it has been shewn you by detail , with what incredible weakness or worse , he has perform'd it . i intreat you also to reflect that the passages he has left unanswer'd , are not trivial or sleight ones ; but all of them , pertinent ; almost all of them , substantial ; and , by far the greater part , of vast import ; as coming up close to our main point , the absolute certainty of christian faith , ( that is , as to its having been taught by christ , ) by our respective principles . so that , in case they , and the reasons for them , be left standing in their full force , as they yet stand , his whole cause is utterly lost ; and himself convinc'd not only to be no good defender of christian faith , but withall no steady holder that his faith is truly christian , or derived from christ ; or , if he holds it to be such at all , it must be by enthusiasm , or fanatick inspiration , not upon truly rational or ( which is the same ) conclusive grounds . he will say perhaps he has touch't upon some of those particulars ; nay , now and then , made long discourses against diverse of my positions . but , all this he might have done tho' he had had never an adversary . to answer is to solve the arguments of another , not to find fault with his conclusions and make discourses on his own head ; a method which any judicious reader may observe runs thorough his whole book . whence i am not ty'd to reply to such impertinent and irregular prevarications ; but only to defend and stand by my reasons ; and 't is a courteous condescendence , not a right due to his carriage , that i have reply'd to them at all ; since my arguments , according to the laws of disputation , must be granted to stand firm 'till they be overthrown . yet , notwithstanding i was not oblig'd to humour his illogical proceedings , i do not know of any thing that is pertinent and of moment that i have over-past ; and i could have spoke it with more assuredness , had he quoted the pages in my letters all along as i did in him , especially when i cited him ; but he would not expose himself to that disadvantage , lest the reader should by that means be directed still to my discourses themselves ; and comparing them with what he had said to them , see how frigid , indirect . or utterly insignificant his pretended answers were . tho' i say i know of no such passage omitted , but what has been already reply'd to and forestall'd in my former letters , or in errour nonplust , yet , in case he still contends i have , let him single out those which he judges the strongest , or any page in this answer of his own which concerns the certainty of faith as we treat of it , that is of christ's doctrin as 't is knowable by us at this distance from his time , and i do promise him a very punctual reply to each particular passage , one by one . he would much oblige our readers and mee too , if instead of answering he will needs fall to arguing , he would please to pick out what 's most pertinent and weighty , and let each single point be debated apart . this would give a far clearer light to our readers : and for their sakes , if he will not do this himself , i shall ( as my leisure serves ) do it for him . in the mean time i am to demand of him publickly as my right , both a punctual reply to the long roll of these his important omissions , and also a defence of his trifling performances : and , in case he denies to give me and the world that satisfaction , since none who knows him can think he wants wit and parts to do it , if feisible , it must necessarily be concluded his cause wants truth . your well wishing friend and servant in christ , j. s. finis . advertisement . the five catholick letters are to be sold at mr matthew turners , bookseller at the lamb in high-holborn . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e dr. tillotson 's rule of faith , p. , . pag. . dr. st's second letter , p. . there can be no necessity suppos'd of any infallible society of men , either to attest or explain these writings among christians . dr. st. principle . dr. st's copy . notes for div a -e * second letter , p. . notes for div a -e * p. . * dr. st 's first letter , p. . & second , p. . p. . p. . * p. . ibid. p. . * p. . p. . p. . p. . see reason against railery , p. . to p. . ibid. my first letter , p. . dr. st's second letter , p. . ibid. p. . dr. st's first letter , p. . p. . ibid. p. . ibid. p. . p. dr. st's second letter , p. . p. . ibid. * see my first letter , p. . * p. . p. . my first letter , p. . p. . p. . ibid. p. . p. . ibid. p. . * my first letter , p. . * p. . p. . * faith vindicated , p. , . p. . p. . * my first letter , p. . * p. . * p. . p. . * first letter , p. . my first letter p. . p. . p. . p. . * p. . * my first letter , p. . * p. . * p. , . * my first letter , p. . p. . tim. c. . , . p. . p. . * p. . . p. . p. . p. . ibid. * p. . p. . p. . * see above . sect. . p. . ibid. p. . p. . * dissuasive from popery , p . p. . * first letter , p. . l. , . p. . * ibid. notes for div a -e dr. st's first letter . p. . p. . * p. . * ibid. * p. . * see sect. , & . p. . see haeresis blacloana . p. . * p. . error non-plust , p. . ibid. p. . dr. st. second letter , p. . * ibid. p. . p. , r . * see above , sect. . & . p. . ibid. epist· ad martinum dorpium . p. . dr. st's first letter . p. . (a) epiphan . haer . . n. . (b) iren. lib. . (c) iren. lib. . cap. . (d) iren. lib. . cap. . hier. ad paul at eustoch . in proem . ep. ad philom . epip . haer . . p. . p. . ibid. ibid. p. . p. . p. . error non-plust , p. . * dr. st. second letter , p. . * see sect. ▪ * p. . * see the anwer to dr. st 's first letter , sect. . , . see mr. kidder's famous sermon preach'd at st. paul's cross , feb. . . * dr. st's first letter , p. . * dr. st. second letter , p. . * see first 〈◊〉 p. . * se faith vind . p. , , , . notes for div a -e * rule of faith. p. . §. . * ibid. * dr. st's . second letter , p. . * faith vindicated from possibility of falsehood . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. , . * p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . pag. . pag. . * dr. st's answer to the catholic letters , p. * dr. st's second letter , p. . see p. . p. , . &c. * p. . * ibid. * p. . * p. . * see above §. . note . * ibid. * pet. . . * p. . * p. . ibid. ibid. * p. . . * see my third catholick letter §. , & . * p. . * p. . * p. . ibid. p. . * see third catholic letter , p. . p. . * see errour non-plust , p. , . * lib. . gen. ad lit. imperfect . cap. . * de doct. christ. l. . c. . notes for div a -e * dr tillotson's rule of faith. p. . . p. . notes for div a -e p. . * clypeus septemplex & vindiciae . p. . * see error non-plust . * dr. burnet , dr. tillotson . and dr. stillingfleet . rom. . * aliquantulum obscura . * ob ●quivationem utriufque evidentiae . p. . * introduction to faith vindication . * faith vindicated . p. to the end. * from pa. . to the end. * error non-plust . p. . * ibid. p. . . * app. to the rule of faith. p. . notes for div a -e * clypeus septemplex & vindiciae . * see clypeus septemplex from . p. . to . * declaration p. . * faith vindicated introduction . p. . p. . p. . * introduction to faith vindicated . p. . . p. . * error non-plust . p. . p. . p. . * faith vindicated . object . . p. . p. . p. . p. . . * see §. . * see error non-plust . p. . * see my declaration and vindiciae . vindiciae j. s. p. . . * querimonia j. s. p. . and . ibid. p. . * see vindiciae j. s. p. . . . . * querim . p. . * app. seu quer. p. . . ibid. p. . ibid. p. . ibid. p. . * app. seu quer. p. . ibid. p. . ibid. ibid. p. . p. . * third catho . letter . p. . l. . . ibid. p. . l. . . p. . p. . * see third cath. letter . p. . . * declaratio sergeantii . p. . * app. p. . ad p. . * declaratio sergeantis . p. . * a sovereign remedy against heresy and atheism . p. . see my declara . p . ibid. p. . . * haeres . blacloana . p. * declaration p. . * querim . p. . & declaratio . p. . * declaratio . p. . . * answer to a letter against mr. lowth , in defence of dr. st. p. . ibid. p. . * see answer to m. lowth's 〈◊〉 . p . * answer to a letter against mr. l. p. . ibid p. . ibid. p. . ibid. p. . ibid. answer to mr. lowth . p. . * postscript to an answer to a letter against mr lowth . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . . p. . . p. . * see the answer to a letter written against mr. lowth . p. . answer to a let. against mr lowth . p. . . . notes for div a -e p. . p. . l. . ult . & p. . l. . . * first cath. letter . p. . third cath. letter . p. . . . . p. . p. . ibid. ibid. p. . ibid. p. . p. . p. . ibid. * answer to mr. lowth . p. . p. . p. . * second letter to mr. g. p. . p . p. . p. . p. . . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . * rule of faith. p. . p. . p. . * rule of faith. p. . p. . p. . l. . & . ibid. notes for div a -e p. . . &c. p. . p. . . p. . p. . p. . p. . fourth cath. letter . p. . . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . * answer to a letter against mr. lowth . p. . * answer to mr. lowth's letter to dr. st. p. . p. . ibid. p. . p. . ibid. l. . . p. . * third cath. letter , p. . . . * third cath. letter . from p. ▪ to p. . p. . ibid. p. . p. . p. . ibid. p. . . * from p. . to p. . and fr. p. . to p. . * discourse fifth . p. . p. . p. . . p. . p. . . p. . . p. . p. . . p. . ibid. * see it confest by the reflecter , p. . p. . p. . * answer to a letter against mr. l. p. . p. . l. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . l. ▪ p. . ibid. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . ibid. * third catho . letter . p. . * from p. . to p. . p. . * dr st's second letter to mr g. p. . * third catho ▪ letter . p. . * augustin . tract . . in joan. * answer to a letter against mr. l. p. . ▪ ibid. p. . p. . * dr st's second letter to mr. g. p. . * aug. lib. . contra cres. con . cap. . p. . . p. . . rule of 〈◊〉 . p. . . p. ● . * third cath. letter from p. . to p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . . * rule of faith. p. . p ▪ . * third cath. letter p. . . . * bellarm. de verbo dei. lib. . . * answer to mr lowth's letter . p. . * third cath. letter p. . p. . * p . l. . p. . l. . * p. . l. . * p. . l. . p. . l. . ibid. p. . * third cath. letter p. . . . p. . p. . p. . p. . ibid. p. . p. . l. . . . p. p. . * dr st's sermon at guild-hall . p. . . * aug. in epist. fund . * third cath. letter p. . . ● ▪ * rule of faith. p. . & p. . p. . p. . p. . . p. . * first cath. letter . p. . . * second letter to mr g. p. . p. . third cath. letter . p. . p. . p. . * dr st's second letter to mr g. p. . . p. . p. . p. . notes for div a -e p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . ibid. p. . p. . * third cath. letter p. . . . . p. . p. ● ▪ p. . * see above §. . & . * third cath. letter p. . . . p. . . p. . * third cath. letter . from p. , to p. . p. . p. . ibid. ibid ▪ p. . * dr st's second letter to mr g. p. . notes for div a -e first catho . letter . p. . p. . . p. . . p. . ibid. p. . . p. . . . . , . & p. . . . p. . p. . . p. . p. . ▪ p. . . . . p. . . p. p. . * third cath. letter ▪ from p. . . p. . . . . . p. . . p. . p. . . . p. . . . p. . . . p. . . . . . * see third cath. letter p. . p. . p. . p. . . p. . p. . . p. . . p. . . p. . p. . . p. . . . . p. . . . . p. . . . p. . . p. . p. . . . p. . . . . p. . p. . p. . . * see above §. p. . p. . p. . . . . . p. . . . . . . p. . . . . p. . p. . p. . p. . . . p. . . p. . . p. . . p. . p. . . . p. . ▪ p. . . p. . . p. . . . . p. . . . . . p. . protestant charity a sermon preached at s. sepulchres church, on tuesday in easter week, a. d. mdclxxxi / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) protestant charity a sermon preached at s. sepulchres church, on tuesday in easter week, a. d. mdclxxxi / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed by m. flesher for henry mortlock ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t. -- galatians vi, -- sermons. charity -- sermons. charity -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion protestant charity . a sermon preached at s. sepvlchres church , on tuesday in easter week , a. d. mdclxxxi . by edward stillingfleet , d. d. dean of s t paul's , and chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london : printed by m. flesher , for henry mortlock , at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , and at the white hart in westminster-hall . . to the right honourable sir patience ward , lord mayor of the city of london , and to the court of aldermen . my lord and gentlemen , it is the great honour of this city , since the protestant religion was professed in it , that it hath born a much greater proportion to the rest of the nation , in publick works of charity , than in the largeness of its buildings , and number of its inhabitants . for when , upon the unreasonable clamours of our adversaries of the church of rome , an account was thought fit to be taken of such acts of charity as lay more open to the view of the world , within sixty years from the settlement of the reformation by q. elizabeth , it was found , that they exceeded all that had been done in twice that number of years in the time of popery ; and that therein this city did equal the whole kingdom besides . and although those who make this report , complain of the too great reservedness of some companies in making known their benefactours ; yet upon the diligent search some persons made , it did appear , that as to the best parts of publick charity in founding schools and hospitals , &c. more was done within that time , than from the conquest to the reformation . for , besides the large and constant charity of the city in the care of their hospitals ; many particular citizens did so great things in several parts of the nation upon their own stocks , that within that compass of time , more than forty hospitals were built and endowed , and above twenty free schools , and upon a reasonable computation , near a million of money was thought to be bestowed in works of charity , in london and the two universities . this was the true protestant charity of those times ; which ran in a clear , free and undivided channel , without the mixture of superstition , or being diverted from its proper course to serve private ends and designs . and this brought honour to our religion ; advanced the reputation of the city ; and promoted the good of the whole nation . and such are great and wise ends ; fit to be considered and carried on by those to whom god hath given a heart sutable to the largeness of their estates ; which they can neither carry into another world , nor better employ in this than by doing good to mankind with them . and as there still continued many and undeniable instances among true protestants of extraordinary designs of charity by particular members of this city , whom god had blessed in their imployments ; so i have reason to hope , that this age will afford remarkable examples of the same kind to posterity : that so our protestant faith may be always found fruitfull in good works ; which will be the best means both to adorn and preserve it . to perswade and encourage others to tread in the steps of those worthy citizens , whose faith and charity deserve their imitation , is the chief design of the following sermon ; which out of due respect to the order of your court , i now present to your hands ; with my hearty prayers to almighty god for the continuance of his blessing on this city and the government of it . i am , my lord and gentlemen , your most faithfull and obedient servant , e. stillingfleet . galat. vi. . and let us not be weary in well-doing ; for in due season we shall reap , if we faint not . when iulian the apostate designed ( if possible ) to retrieve the honour of the heathen religion , he easily discern'd that it was not enough for him to restore the priesthood , to open the temples , to appoint the sacrifices to be offer'd upon the altars ; but he found it necessary for them to imitate the christians in the strictness of their lives , in the solemnity of their devotions , in the exactness of their discipline , and especially in the erecting hospitals , and taking care of the poor . for he that would not believe the christian religion to be from god , thought himself bound to give some probable account , how a religion so contrary to the interests and designs of this world , should be able to prevail against all the arts and power of its many and potent enemies ; and upon the deepest search which could be made by himself , or the greatest wits of the heathens then about him , they concluded the flourishing and propagation of it to be chiefly owing to those things which he so much commended to the heathens imitation . and from hence they inferred , that if the same things could be brought into practice among the gentiles , they should be able to supplant christianity by its own methods , and restore paganism by the same weapons by which it was overthrown . this was thought so subtle and artificial a device by him whose great design was to extirpate our religion in a soft and gentle manner , without the blood and cruelty of former times , that he writes an epistle on purpose to arsacius the chief priest of galatia , requiring punctual observance of these commands ; and as to the chargeable and expensive part , he offer'd large provisions out of his own revenue to defray it . but saint paul had been beforehand with him in galatia , having planted churches with great success there ; and christianity , by his means , took so deep root in mens hearts , that neither the rage and fury of former persecutions , nor the plausible arts and insinuations of iulian were able to root it out . it is true , that these churches , soon after their planting , were in great danger of being overrun by the pernicious errours of some seducers of that time ; ( the apprehension whereof put saint paul into that astonishment which he expresseth in the beginning of this epistle , i marvel that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of christ unto another gospel , &c. ) yet by the early notice and care which he took to prevent the spreading of these corruptions among them , the galatian churches recover'd the soundness of their faith , and have preserved a name among the eastern churches , though under great variety of conditions , to this day . some take notice , that this is one of the sharpest epistles written by saint paul. he appears indeed , by the beginning of it , to have been much surprised and moved at the news of a great and sudden alteration among them ; which he was sure was not for the better . and by this plain dealing with them , he knew , till they consider'd better , they would be offended with him ; but withall he tells them this did best become a servant of christ , who , like a good physician , hath more regard to the disease than to the palate of his patient ; for if i yet pleased men , i should not be the servant of christ. but having vindicated his own honour , which the evil reports of the false apostles made necessary ; and argued with great strength and conviction against the imposers of the law ; he betakes himself to the inforcing the practice of the general and necessary duties of christianity upon these galatians . if they had such a mind to keep the law , all the law , saith he , is fulfilled in one word , even in this , thou shalt love thy neighbour as thy self . it was a vain and foolish thing for them to contend about keeping the law , who did overthrow the main design of it , by their heats and animosities against each other ; which , instead of preserving the honour of the law , was the certain way to destroy one another . but if ye bite and devour one another , take heed that ye be not consumed one of another . from hence he shews , that hatred , variance , emulations , wrath , strife , seditions , heresies , are as much the lusts of the flesh as adultery , fornication , murther , drunkenness , revellings and such like ; and as destructive to mens salvation ; of the which , saith he , i tell you before , as i have also told you in time past , that they which doe such things shall not inherit the kingdom of god. and they that are true christians must crucifie the flesh with all these affections and lusts thereof ; such as vain-glory , love of contention , envying the reputation of others . let us not be desirous of vain-glory , provoking one another , envying one another . but the apostle did not think the design of the law , or the obligation of christianity was satisfied with abstaining from doing injuries to others ; therefore he proceeds to tell them what exercise of tenderness , compassion and readiness to doe good to others were expected from them by the law of christ. ( . ) if a man , through the frailty of humane nature , or the sudden surprise of a temptation , be overtaken in a fault , do not , saith he , trample upon him , nor insult over him ; but endeavour with the spirit of meekness to recover him from his fall ; considering that we carry about us the same load of flesh , and are exposed to continual temptations our salves . ( . ) if we see others groaning under the heavy burthen of their own infirmities , or the pressures and calamities of the world , do not add more weight to their afflictions ; but put your own shoulders under to bear a part with them , to make their burthen more easie to them ; for herein lies a great deal of that duty which christ hath laid on all his disciples . bear ye one anothers burthens and so fulfill the law of christ. ( . ) if it be impossible for men to attend the service of your souls and the affairs of this world together , never grudge nor repine at the exercise of your kindness and liberality towards your spiritual teachers , v. . let him that is taught in the word communicate to him that teacheth in all good things . which instances being mention'd , the apostle subjoins two things : . a general proposition , viz. that every man shall receive in another world according to the good that he doth in this . be not deceived god is not mocked ; for whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap . for he that soweth to his flesh shall of his flesh reap corruption , but he that soweth to the spirit shall of the spirit reap life everlasting . i. e. he that looks onely after his present advantage in this world and dares not venture to doe any thing out of hopes of recompence for it in another life , he is said to sow to his flesh ; but he that is good and charitable and kind to others without hopes of any other advantage than what god will give him for it , is said to sow to the spirit ; the flesh and spirit being opposed as the two centres of the different worlds : the great thing to which all things tend in this world being something carnal or that relates to the flesh ; and the great principle of another world being wholly spiritual . and these two flesh and spirit are placed as two loadstones drawing our hearts several ways , the one is much stronger , but at a greater distance ; the other hath less force in it self but is much nearer to us , by which means it draws more powerfully the hearts that are already touched with a strong inclination to it . but the apostle useth the similitude of two fields , wherein the product of the seed answers to the nature of the soil ; so he that sowes to the flesh , i. e. that minds onely his present interest in this world , his harvest shall be proportionable to his seed , he may reap advantages to himself in this world sutable to his pains and industry ; but the utmost this world can yield is but of a short continuance , being of a temporary , transient , corruptible nature , he that soweth to the flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption : but he that soweth to the spirit , i. e. hath so great a regard to the rewards of another life , that he is willing to let go a present enjoyment and bury it under ground , casting it in as seed into the earth in hopes of a future resurrection , however he may be condemned as a weak and improvident man by the men of this world , yet as certain as there is a life everlasting to come , so certainly shall all his good deeds yield an abundant increase and meet with a glorious recompence then , if there be no corrupt mixture in the sowing which may spoil the virtue of the seed , for he that soweth to the spirit shall of the spirit reap life everlasting . and let not men deceive themselves ; if they look onely at themselves and the things of this world , let their pretences be never so spiritual , if they dare not doe acts of charity so as to trust god for a reward , they do but sow to the flesh ; and though the world may be cheated , and men may sometimes deceive themselves , yet god cannot be mocked ; he knows the hearts , and intentions , and secret designs of men , and according to them their reward shall be ; for whatsoever a man soweth that shall he reap . this i take to be the natural and genuine meaning of the apostle in those words . . a particular exhortation , not to be discouraged in well doing , which is the same with sowing to the spirit before , and with doing good in the following verse , both which are to be understood of the works of charity ; and therefore we ought to take it in that sense here . these are especially called good works in the new testament ; dorcas is said to be a woman full of good works and alms-deeds which she did . the widow that was to be taken into office in the church , must be well reported of for good works ; and these presently follow , the bringing up children , the lodging strangers , washing the saints feet and relieving the afflicted ; in the epistle to titus , saint paul gives him a strict charge , that he deliver it with great assurance ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) that they which believe in god might be carefull to maintain good works ; these things are good and profitable unto men ; where the same word is used in the greek , that is in the words of the text. and to the same purpose other words of a like signification are used , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to doe good and to communicate forget not ; ' 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , charge them that are rich in this world — that they doe good , that they be rich in good works , ready to distribute , willing to communicate . that ye may abound to every good work , saith saint paul ; which he after explains , by being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness . so that although well doing in the general may extend to every good action , yet by the particular sense of that phrase in the new testament , and especially from the coherence of these words with the foregoing and following verses , it appears that the well doing here spoken of , is to be understood of works of charity . which the apostle , as they were christians , did suppose them to practise , but being apprehensive lest the discouragements they met with in the world , should make them grow cold and remiss in this great duty , he therefore exhorts them not to faint or grow weary of doing it ; and to that end he lays down the most powerfull motive and consideration ; for in due season ye shall reap if ye faint not : i. e. ye shall not miss of a reward from god. so that from the words we may take notice of these two things which deserve our consisideration . . the many discouragements men meet with in the world which are apt to make them grow weary in well doing . . the mighty incouragement which god gives to our continuance and perseverance in it ; for in due season we shall reap if we faint not . i. the many discouragements men meet with in the world , which are apt to make them grow weary in well doing . the precepts of charity deliver'd by our saviour and his apostles are so plain , so full , so many , so easie to be understood ; and those precepts inforced by so just , and reasonable , and pious considerations , with respect to god , to the world , to fellow christians , to the honour of our religion , and lastly to our selves , from the comfort that is in well doing , and the reward that follows it ; that a man must have great impudence , to profess himself a christian , and yet to think himself not obliged to doe acts of charity . but notwithstanding all this , and much more which might be said to this purpose , there are too many still who are ready to find out some plausible pretences to excuse them from well doing ; which being the greatest discouragements to men from continuing in it ; i shall make it my present business to examin them , and to shew how little weight there is in them , especially being compared with the authority of him who hath made this our duty , and the reward we may justly expect for performing it . and here i shall pass over the more common and trivial objections , which every one can easily answer that makes them ; and rather argue an unwilling mind to perform their duty , than one unsatisfied about the reasonableness of it ; and i shall therefore insist on those that carry a greater appearance of strength in them ; which are chiefly these two , . from the different state of our times from those when these commands of charity were given . . from the sad prospect of our own affairs , which seem rather to call for a care of our selves than charity to others . . the first pretence is from the difference of times ; there was then , say such men , great reason for charity which will not hold now ; those were times of persecution for religion , and many were driven to great streights and necessities on that account who deserved to be relieved , and the christians had been worse than infidels not to doe good to men that were brought to want meerly for christ's and the gospel's sake ; the laws then could take no care of these poor and indigent persons ; for the laws made them so , being then opposite to christianity : but now our religion is settled by the laws ; and we have many laws made for a competent provision for the poor , which will be sufficient if they be put in execution , and if they be not , what charity is this to relieve an idle and disorderly sort of people who live upon alms , when it is greater charity to such to make them work and to provide for their own subsistence ? this is the force of the objection which seems to have a great deal of strength and weight in it ; but before i give an answer to it i must acknowledge the truth of some things contained therein . ( . ) that there is a great difference in the case of charity , where our religion is settled by law , and where it is persecuted by it . for a larger measure and degree of charity is justly required in a time of persecution , in as much as those are the truest objects of charity who prefer the keeping faith and a good conscience before the good things of this life . and we ought to look upon it as an unvaluable blessing , that we have the christian , yea the reformed christian religion settled by our laws . and god grant it may ever so continue ! ( . ) it cannot be denied that we have very good laws for the maintenance of the poor , and that they might be sufficient for their common necessities , if they were duly executed . and it is a very just and reasonable distinction which our laws make between the involuntary poor , who are made so by the hand of heaven , either by sickness , or lameness , or age , or children , or fire , &c. and the voluntary poor , who may help themselves but will not , being idle , dissolute and slothfull persons . these deserve rather the hand of justice to punish them than that of charity to relieve them : for saint paul himself is so far from thinking this to be true charity , that he hardly thinks it so to keep such from starving if we take that proverbial saying in its strict and literal sense , if any would not work , neither should he eat . ( . ) i grant that it is greater charity to put persons upon providing for themselves than to relieve their present necessities . for that is the greatest charity which doth a man the most good . and he that reduceth a dissolute and wandring beggar to the taking pains for himself and family cures an ill habit of his mind ; puts him into the way of vertue and sobriety ; gives him a lasting stock for himself and family ( for diligence and industry is so ) keeps him out of the danger of the worst sort of company ; gains him more friends , who will be far more ready to help a person industrious in his poverty than the most clamorous and importunate beggar . and therefore our laws have wisely determin'd , that work-houses are the best hospitals for the poor , who are able to help themselves . but after these concessions , i am far from thinking the command of charity to be swallowed up in our laws for the relief of the poor . for , ( . ) if our laws were the best in the world for this purpose , yet , if they be not duly executed , they leave as much room for charity as if there were none . what if a law were made that there should be no poor at all among us ; but that immediate care should be taken , upon any man's falling into decay , that his stock should be supplied out of the superfluities of the rich ? if this law were not executed , men would be altogether as miserable in their poverty , and as great objects of charity as if there were no such law in being . for the making of a law for their supply without putting it in execution , is but like the person in saint iames , who said to those who were naked and destitute of daily food , be ye warmed and filled ; but notwithstanding gave them nothing needfull for the body ; what doth this profit ? what advantage or satisfaction is it to a man to starve with the law on his side ? or can men be better fed or cloathed with the words of a law than of any particular person ? if not , then if care be not taken for the relief and maintenance of the poor according to the laws , there is as great need of charity as if there were none at all . ( . ) if we suppose the laws for relief of the poor to be duly executed , yet there are many particular cases of charity which often happen which the laws cannot be supposed to provide for . the law takes care onely of general , and notorious , and common cases ; but there are continual instances of singular and extraordinary cases where relief is as much wanted , but is rarely challenged . how often is some mens reputation a snare to themselves and families ; who had rather sink silently into the gulf of misery , than have their wants made known to their insulting neighbours , among whom they have lived in as good fashion as themselves ? how many have been tempted rather to put an end to a miserable life than to be despised and contemned for their poverty in their old age ! how many are unwilling to make known their condition for fear of a repulse and being thought liars , or impudent and common beggars ! how hardly will some pinch themselves and families , before they will make known their necessities ! and some have been known to have brought themselves so low , that when their sad condition hath been discovered , they have been past all possibility of recovery . i hope such instances are not frequent among us . and yet we are lately told in print by a member of this city , that he hath reason to believe many hundreds have perished through want of late years . if this be true , and their case was known ; what a shame and dishonour is it , in the midst of so much plenty and luxury , to suffer such a reproach to christianity to be among us ? but if their case were not known in time ; the stain is not quite wiped off , because there ought to be in so great , so rich , so well-governed a city , a due care taken to find out as well as to relieve the truly necessitous . ( . ) the obligations of charity reach much farther than the force of our laws doth . for how small a matter within this city doth answer the letter of the law , where persons enjoy very great and plentifull estates ? and is that all which their thankfulness to god , their love to their brethren , and the regard to our saviour's commands will draw from them ? is this being mercifull as our heavenly father is mercifull ? is this giving our alms in secret , that thy father which seeth in secret may reward thee openly ? is this making to our selves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness ? is this being rich towards god ; being rich in good works , being ready to distribute , willing to communicate ? is this doing good to all men as we have opportunity ? is this feeding the hungry , cloathing the naked , visiting the sick and imprison'd ? can we imagine that will be a good answer at the great day , that we have paid our rates to the poor ? if the christian charity had extended no farther , iulian needed not have been so solicitous to have the heathens equal them ? the true charity of christians is a free and voluntary thing , not what men are forced to doe by the laws ; it is a largeness of mind , that disposeth men to doe good to others , and embraceth every opportunity for that purpose ; it is the flowing of a fountain which runs freely , easily and constantly ; and not like the pouring water out of a narrow mouthed vessel , where but little comes , and with a great deal of noise . charity spreads it self like the beams of the sun , and warms and enlivens the colder parts of the earth ; it pierceth into the bowels of it , and makes it self a passage to those secret and hidden objects which are out of the view of the world. true christian charity hath arms so large to comprehend the whole world within them ; but it is the life and spirit of that body whereof christ is the head ; it passeth from one member to another , emptying it self from the larger vessels into the less , and so by a constant motion and course through the body it keeps heat and union in all the parts . to doe good because one cannot help it , is to obey the law of necessity and not of charity . he that resolves to go no farther in charity than the law requires him , declares he would not have gone so far unless the law had forced him ; which is in effect to tell the world , he hath not so much as an inclination to charity . ( . ) our laws give great encouragement to the best , the noblest , the most lasting works of charity ; such as erecting work-houses for the poor that are able to work , endowing hospitals and alms-houses for the impotent , distemper'd and aged poor ; setting up free-schools for the education of youth . and i never yet met with any objection against these that will not hold against the best designs in the world. for it is possible they may be abused , and may accidentally prove an occasion of idleness to some persons , and they may exceed the due proportion of persons fit for them , ( although we yet see no great danger of that . ) yet what design can the wit of man pitch upon in a captious and suspicious age , that will not meet with objections from those that have a mind to cavil ? the best religion in the world , the best church , the best government , the best laws , the best men cannot escape the censures of ill-minded men ; and why should we think the best designs of charity should ? but some men whose minds are set upon one particular way of charity , are apt to disparage all other ways to advance their own : which is the common errour of mankind , to think sufficient right is not done to the thing they admire , unless they undervalue all other things in comparison with it . but it is a part of charity to allow , approve and incourage all true ways of charity ; not to set up bodily labour against the improvement of the mind ; nor the learning of arts and sciences to the disparagement of breeding men up for trade and business ; nor to cry down hospitals and infirmaries for the lame and sick and aged in comparison of work-houses for the young and strong and healthfull . for all these are excellent and most commendable ways of charity , and have nothing of contradiction or inconsistency with one another , if they do answer the ends of their institution . i do not go about to lessen the esteem of casual and occasional acts of charity done to particular persons in present want ; when our blessed saviour in the midst of all his poverty took care of the poor , for when he spake to iudas at the table , the disciples supposed it was that he should give something to the poor . what admirable charity was this , when he had not whereon to lay his head , and was at the expence of a miracle to give an entertainment to the people , yet he had an officer , one of his own apostles , to take care of the poor ! and when he pronounceth such blessedness to those who doe acts of charity to them , and accounts them as done unto himself ; which is the highest expression of his gracious acceptance of such acts from us , and of the great obligation that lies upon us to doe them ; since we ought not to think much of any thing we doe for the honour of our lord and saviour , who did and suffer'd so much for our sakes : yet when we compare these with the publick works of charity before mention'd , being done for the same end ; we shall find these to exceed the other in some material circumstances , which add much to the excellency of them . ( . ) in the largeness and extensiveness of their design . other charities are for the present relief of some poor and indigent persons , whose bowels are refreshed , and backs are clothed , and hearts are eased , by the kindness of others to them ; but these are soon gone , and mens charity cannot follow them beyond the grave . but publick endowments of charity are to last for ever , and doe good to the poor of many generations . the ages to come will rise up and bless their memory who took care to doe good to those whom they never saw ; and to provide for such , yea very many such , whom it was impossible for them to know . when a man sees a great object of charity , as the widow and fatherless under extreme necessities , the mother weeping and bemoaning her children not having bread to put into their mouths , and the poor children looking ghastly and frightfully crying for want of bread , but not knowing where to get it , the very uneasiness of a man 's own mind at the sense of so much misery in others , will extort some present relief to still their cries , and to put such an unpleasing idea out of his fancy . but if the object it self do not move , yet importunity may : if that doth not , yet custom , reputation , natural humanity , recommendation of friends may prevail on men to be sometimes liberal to persons whom they see under present wants . but how much doth all this fall short of a fixed , certain , perpetual provision for the necessities of those , whom none of those arguments could excite men to shew kindness to ? the other is a more sensible , natural , private charity ; this is a more rational , generous christian charity ; being built upon more free , and noble , and lasting considerations , most agreeable to the design and honour of the christian religion , which puts men upon doing the best things and which tend to the greatest benefit and advantage of mankind . and in the comparison of things that are good , the largest , the most publick , the most lasting ought to have the preeminence . ( . ) in their consequence and usefulness ; which ought to be especially regarded in acts of charity . for true charity must be accompanied with wisedom and discretion . it is not a man's profuse liberality to every one that asks ; nor making himself poor to make others rich ; it is not squandering away an estate among idle and indigent persons , that makes him a charitable man ; but it is a wise dispensing the gifts god hath bestowed upon him for the benefit and advantage of others . and the greater the good is that is received the greater is the charity in bestowing it . the schoolmen reckon up seven sorts of corporal alms , and as many of spiritual ; to visit the sick , to feed the hungry , to satisfie the thirsty , to cloath the naked , to redeem the captive , to entertain the stranger , to bury the dead ; are the former : to teach the ignorant , to advise the doubtfull , to comfort the sorrowfull , to correct the wicked , to forgive the injurious , to bear the troublesome , to pray for all ; are the instances of spiritual charity . but this is rather a distribution of the different sorts of charity , than any just rule and measure of our obligation to the acts of it . for although in the general , spiritual acts of charity to mens souls , are to be preferred before what refers onely to their bodies ; yet in particular cases a man may be more obliged to relieve their outward necessities than to give them good counsel for their souls ; i. e. when those necessities are urgent and pressing , and by a present supply they may have longer time and be in better disposition to receive spiritual advice . some dispute if a bad man be in greater want and a good man in less want , which of these two is to be preferred ? and the casuists say , the work of mercy is greater in the former case ; but the work of charity in the latter . for mercy onely relates to another's misery ; but charity takes in other considerations . so i say , when the competition lies between the present supply of some in great want , and making a lasting provision for more persons in less want , there may be more mercy in the former case , but there may be greater charity in the latter : because the more publick , the more common , the more usefull the good is , the greater the charity is in doing of it . i will not dispute , whether the breeding up of youth to learning , or labour , be among us the greater charity ? i know no reason why two such excellent ways of charity should be set at variance with each other . but certainly we are not to judge of mens usefulness to the publick meerly by the strength of their limbs , or the hardness of their hands , or the nimbleness of their fingers . is it not possible that by the charitable education of children in the ways of learning and knowledge some may arrive at a greater capacity of serving god and their country , than if they had been grinding in a mill , or tugging at an oar all that while ? it is not onely keeping people to hard labour , or to continual working , which is the design of charity ; but the most excellent way of charity is , to improve all persons according to their several capacities , so as to make them more usefull and serviceable to the publick . this is not onely doing good to the particular persons , but to the whole nation ; and charity is not barely to be measured by the quality of its acts , but by the largeness of the circumference it fills . the breeding up some few great and usefull persons to a nation is a work of charity the publick good is more concerned in , than in the manual labours of many industrious artificers : who do serve the publick too in their way ; but there is a difference between those lesser stars in the firmament , that wanted a telescope to discover them , and those great and splendid bodies which influence the earth , and direct mens passage in the deep waters . that is therefore the greatest and most usefull charity , which tends to the improving mankind according to their different capacities ; some for labour , others for trade , others to be usefull to the rest of mankind with a respect either to their country or to their estates , their bodies or their souls : and which takes all possible care to prevent the unspeakable and innumerable mischiefs which idleness and debauchery do bring upon mankind . ( . ) in the honour they bring to religion . there are some cases , wherein our charity must be so secret , that our left hand must not know what our right hand doth , i. e. when there is danger of vanity and ostentation in the doing of our alms ; but when the honour of god and religion is concerned , then let your light so shine before men , that they may see your good works , and glorifie your father which is in heaven . but how can men see those acts of charity which are done in secret , and are industriously concealed from the knowledge of men ? and if that were to be taken as a strict command in all cases , then all the publick works of charity , which are most considerable for the honour of god and religion would be forbidden by the gospel . but where men do excellent and praise worthy things for great and good ends , without pharisaical hypocrisie , it is the general concernment of religion and the glory of god not to have such things kept from the knowledge of the world. for herein , saith our saviour , is my father glorified that ye bear much fruit , so shall ye be my disciples . so shall ye appear to be my disciples , for christ had owned them for his disciples before , but this would manifest their being so to the world ; which would bring the greatest honour to god and to the christian religion . and it is certain nothing did more advance the reputation of it in the world , than their singular and extraordinary care of the poor . for they not onely relieved in the first place those that were christians , according to the apostle's rule in the next verse ; especially to those of the household of faith ; but their charity extended to the very heathens : which iulian takes notice of with great indignation : is it not a shame for us not to relieve our own poor , when the christians not onely take care of their own but of ours too ? and by the case of lucian's peregrinus , it appears , that some pretended to be christians on purpose that they might be partakers of the great bounty and kindness which the christians shewed to their brethren . but such instances as these did not make them weary in well-doing ; but still as the church increased in riches by the free and large oblations of the people ; so greater care was taken for the erecting hospitals for the reception of the poor , who could provide no habitation for themselves ; and this was then always looked on as a particular concernment of religion , and not as a meer political constitution . thus the matters of charity stood in the christian church , till men came to be perswaded that by the priest's saying so many prayers for the dead , their souls might be removed out of purgatory and translated to heaven . and when this notorious cheat prevailed , the stream of mens charity was diverted from the poor , to the making good bargains for their souls . and who could blame men who had spent all their days in wickedness , or raised an estate by fraud and oppression , if at their death they took care to leave enough to have so many masses said for their souls , as might by a reasonable computation serve for their redemption out of purgatory at a marketable price . when the laying open these cheats to the world , gave the first occasion to the reformation , a mighty out-cry was every where made , that the foundation of all good works was destroyed , and if the reformation prevailed there would be no want of faith , when every one might choose what he pleased , but nothing like charity was to be expected . to remove the former calumny , our reformers published the articles of our religion ; and to take away the latter , they put that admirable prince edward the sixth upon the new founding the famous hospitals of this city , ( for although there were some hospitals before , such as saint mary bethlehem , elsying spittal , saint bartholomew's , yet they were inconsiderable in comparison of what they have been since ) for by the care and charity of the governours and other members of the city , they have yielded a wonderfull support to a mighty number of poor children , and wounded and diseased persons both in body and mind ; which being joyned with another foundation of one single person , this city may justly vye with any other in the christian world as to so many and so great foundations , for the best kind of christian charity , in the education of youth and the care of the impotent and diseased . our religion teacheth us better , than to have so vain and fond an opinion of our good works as to think we merit heaven by them ; but surely our charity is so much the greater , if we doe these things out of a sense of gratitude to god , than if we think to drive a bargain with him , and put our imperfect works in the ballance with an infinite and eternal reward . those of the church of rome may think they carry on a better trade with heaven than we doe ; and that they have a mighty advantage in the overballance of what they hope for in exchange for what they part with ; but they had best look well to the stating their accounts , the due value of their works , and the reason of expecting such a disproportionable return ; lest at last they deceive themselves , and totally fail of their expectations : for in the great day of account , all things will be most exactly weighed ; and although the greatest benefactours rejoyce in the highest acts of kindness , yet when any thing is challenged in a way of iustice , men do not love to be imposed upon or over-reached in a bargain . what madness then is it , for any sinfull creatures to hope that any acts of theirs , being weighed by divine justice , can bear any proportion in a way of merit , with no less than the kingdom of heaven ? this we utterly disclaim , and owe all our hopes of heaven meerly to the infinite goodness and mercy of god through his son christ jesus : and yet we think our selves never the less bound to be fruitfull in good works ; because we hereby testifie our obedience to the laws of christ ; our sincere love to god and our brethren ; our readiness to doe good to others by the mercies which god hath bestowed upon us ; our sense of the obligation we have to one another , as partaking of the same nature , and liable to the same infirmities , and exposed to the same calamities ; our expectation of a blessed reward , though not due to the merit of our works , but to the infinite grace and mercy of god. and i do not see , but where men have a due regard to god and religion , such considerations as these do more effectually stir men up to true acts of charity , than those mercenary and corrupt doctrines in the roman church ; which look rather like cunning devices to pick the peoples pockets than any real arguments for charity . and upon a carefull examination , it hath been found , that our protestant doctrine was so far from stopping up the channel that ran so freely before , that within sixty years after the reformation more great and noble works of charity were done in founding of schools and hospitals , than for some hundreds of years before ; and some say from the conquest till that time of the reformation . but this i have formerly insisted more upon , on the like occasion . the summe of what i have said is this , that we have no reason to be weary in well-doing ; on the account of our laws for the common relief of the poor ; because those laws cannot provide for all cases of charity ; and because they do suppose the greatest works of charity to depend upon the largeness and freeness of those mens minds to whom god gives a heart to doe great and worthy things with the estates he hath given to them . . but there is another plausible pretence yet behind , viz. from the consideration of our own times . were the times calm and fixed ; had we a fair prospect of things before us , that were a great encouragement to charity ; but we live in perplexed and doubtfull times , and know not what may become of us all ; mens minds are strangely discomposed and full of fears ; and therefore this is a very unseasonable time to perswade them to charity , when they ought rather to lay up and secure something against an evil day . to which i answer , . what times were those the primitive christians lived in , who so much abounded in charity ? saint paul tells us of himself and his brethren , they were hungry and thirsty , naked and buffetted , having no certain dwelling-place ; labouring , working with their own hands , reviled , persecuted , defamed ; and yet nothing relating to this world was so much their care and concernment as providing for the poor . for when he went up to ierusalem , and there conferred with iames , cephas and iohn , at his departure they had nothing to desire of him and barnabas , but to remember the poor , the same which i also was forward to doe ; as saint paul relates it . and you may see how earnest he was in it , by his dealing with the corinthians , when he perswades them to a liberal contribution to the poor christians in iudea , who then suffer'd much either through famine or persecution or both . saint paul had undertaken for the churches of achaia , ( of which corinth , being a populous and trading city , was the chief ) but the collection not being yet made among them , he sends some on purpose to corinth to make all ready against his coming to them , and perswades them to great liberality in their giving : for which end he makes use of the most powerfull and prevailing arguments and great arts of insinuation . ( . ) he sets before them the example of the churches of macedonia ; which is truly a very extraordinary instance of christian charity . they were under great trouble and deep poverty at that time themselves , yet understanding by saint paul this occasion of more than ordinary charity , they not onely strained themselves even beyond their abilities , but did it with that cheerfulness and satisfaction of mind , that they intreated the apostle to accept of what they had given , and to undertake the managing of so good a work. and saint paul seems to speak of it with a kind of transport , moreover , brethren , we do you to wit of the grace of god bestowed on the churches of macedonia ; how that in a great trial of affliction , the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded to the riches of their liberality ; for to their power i bear record , yea and beyond their power they were willing of themselves ; praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift , and take upon us the fellowship of the ministring to the saints . nothing can be added to the weight of these words and the emphasis wherewith they are penned . ( . ) he lets them know what a shame and reproach it would be to so famous a church for other divine gifts to come behind others in charity . therefore as ye abound in every thing , in faith , in utterance , in knowledge , and in all diligence , and in your love to us , ( what artificial insinuations are these ! ) see that ye abound in this grace also . ( . ) but lest he should seem to press too hard upon them , he draws off again ; i speak not by commandment , but by occasion of the forwardness of others , and to prove the sincerity of your love . ( . ) yet he hath no sooner said this , but he comes on again with the most prevailing argument taken from the example of our blessed saviour : for ye know the grace of our lord iesus christ , that though he was rich , yet for your sakes he became poor that ye through his poverty might be rich . can any thing be more moving to christians than this ? ( . ) his design was not to lay a burthen upon them , but to excite mutual compassion in christians to one another . ( . ) this would be a demonstration to the world of their kindness to him , and that he had not spoken great things of them without cause . ( . ) they might justly expect a retribution sutable to their bounty ; but this i say , he which soweth sparingly shall reap sparingly ; but he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully . ( . ) this would be the occasion of many thanksgivings and prayers to god for them . for the administration of this service , not onely supplieth the want of the saints , but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto god. ( whilst by the experiment of this ministration they glorifie god for your professed subjection unto the gospel of christ , and for your liberal distribution unto them , and unto all men . ) and by their prayer for you , which long after you for the exceeding grace of god in you . thanks be unto god for his unspeakable gift . wherein he supposes the thing as already done , as believing it impossible for them to resist the force of so many arguments . and yet all this while saint paul supposes their condition to be such as in a little time they might stand in need of relief from others ; which he thought was so far from being an argument against present charity , that he useth it the other way ; that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want , that their abundance may also be a supply for your want . i. e. do not consider what times may come upon your selves so as to hinder doing good while it is in your power to doe it ; leave those things to the wise providence of god ; if he think fit to reduce you to want , he that now excites your hearts to doe good to them , will stir up others to make up the same measure to you . so that while the christians were either under great persecutions , or in expectation of them , through the power of the magistrates , or the rage of the people ; yet the apostles pressed them , and that with great success , to a free , cheerfull , liberal contribution to relieve those who labour under greater wants than others . . this very consideration is used as an argument in scripture to perswade men to charity , viz. that we do not know what times may come upon us . give thy portion to seven and also to eight ; for thou knowest not what evil shall be upon the earth . this seems to the men of this world a strange way of reasoning , and it may be they suspect from hence that solomon was not so wise a man as they took him to be . what! give away what one hath because one knows not what times may come . no certainly , say they , we ought to get what we can , and to save what we have , for that reason . the difference of reasoning in this case proceeds upon the different principles on both sides . solomon believed a divine providence and they do not . and he thought that would be particularly concerned for the good of those , whom no sad prospect of affairs could discourage from well-doing according to their ability and opportunity . ii. and so i come to the incouragement here given to patient continuance in well-doing ; for , in due season we shall reap if we faint not . wherein are three things considerable . . the certainty of a future recompence for well-doing . we shall reap . . the time of receiving it , not immediately , but in due season . . the condition supposed on our parts , which is continuance in well-doing . if we faint not . some understand it as relating to the reward , that we shall receive it without fainting ; reaping and harvest being a time of labour and sickness ; but the more natural meaning of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , seems to be the taking the participle , as implying the condition on our parts . . the certainty of a future recompence for well-doing . god is not unrighteous , saith the apostle , to forget your work and labour of love , which ye have shewed towards his name ; in that ye have ministred to the saints and do minister . though it be a work and labour , though it may seem uneasie and troublesome for a while ; yet being a work and labour of love ; it is but the work and labour of sowing , which a man goes through the more cheerfully because he expects a plentifull increase . he doth not reap presently the very same which he sowed , but a wonderfull improvement of it , when the seed being cast into a fruitfull soil brings forth some thirty , some sixty , some an hundred fold . and this harvest doth not depend upon the uncertainty of the weather ; here are no fears of blasting and mildew , or locust to prevent the joyfull expectation of it ; no danger of the seed rotting in the ground , or being pickt up by the fowls of the air ; but he that ministreth seed to the sower , will multiply the seed sown , and increase the fruits of their righteousness . his word is engaged that they which sow shall reap a plentifull increase ; and therefore god will not be unrighteous in not performing his promise . this men may as certainly depend upon as that night and day shall follow each other ; for heaven and earth may pass away , but the word of god endureth for ever . . the time of this retribution , in due season . most men are unwilling to trust god too long upon his bare word ; they would have something in hand , and the remainder hereafter . and god by the course of his wise providence , doth very often order things so in this world that the most charitable men , although they may not abound with the greatest riches , yet generally meet with the fewest difficulties ; and in their straights find more unexpected assistance than other men . david made it the observation of his own time , that in all his days though he was then grown old , he never saw the righteous , i. e. the charitable man , forsaken , nor his seed begging bread . and they have far more reason than other men to hope , that if they do fall into trouble and sickness , god will have a particular regard to them ; and besides this , they have the natural or rather spiritual contentment that follows doing good ; and they have more satisfaction and ease in it , than others have in hoarding up wealth for they know not whom . but none of all these are the reaping here mention'd ; they are like ruth's gleaning of handfulls in the field of boaz , which shewed a more than ordinary kindness ; notwithstanding which he said , the lord recompense thy work , and a full reward be given thee of the lord god of israel , under whose wings thou art come to trust . so it is here , they may have better gleanings and fuller handfulls sometimes in the common field of providence , but this is not the full recompence which the god of mercy will give to those that trust in his word . that is onely to be expected at the great day when the lord the righteous judge shall say , come ye blessed of my father , inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. for i was an hungred and ye gave me meat ; i was thirsty and ye gave me drink ; i was a stranger and ye took me in ; naked and ye clothed me ; i was sick and ye visited me ; i was in prison and ye came unto me : for inasmuch as ye have done it to one of the least of these my brethren ye have done it unto me . o the infinite goodness and unexpressible kindness of our blessed saviour , who in the day of judgment will interpret all acts of charity so much to the advantage of those that doe them ! who would deny any thing to a servant of that lord who takes all kindnesses to them as done to himself , and rewards them accordingly ? what other apprehensions will covetous and hard-hearted wretches then have of their sordid penuriousness in heaping up riches , without any tenderness or compassion to the necessities of their brethren and christ's representatives ? how will they wish ten thousand times , when it will be to no purpose to wish , that they had rather laid out their money in doing good , than laid it up for those , who may go to hell the faster for the great temptations they leave behind them . neither let the prodigal fools think they shall escape better , for being so contrary to the griping and stingy humour of the covetous ; for it is not the vain and careless squandring an estate away in riotous courses will make a man's condition more tolerable at that day ; but it is the provident , seasonable , carefull distribution of our charity for wise and good ends , which shall meet with so glorious a reward . . especially , in the last place , if we faint not , and do not repent of what good we have done , but continue so doing to the end of our lives . for this reason i presume it is that many reserve their greatest acts of charity to their deaths ; but it is dangerous putting off their repenting and doing good till they come to die , for fear their hearts , or those whom they trust deceive them . but if men begin to doe well in their health and strength , let them not faint when they come to die ; but continue charitable as well as faithfull unto death , and god will give them a crown of life . and now my business is to make particular application to this great assembly not to be weary in well-doing ; and therefore i shall repeat to you , a true report , &c. you perceive by this relation , how much good hath been already done in the care of the education of poor children , and in the cure of and provision for the maimed and distracted , all which are very commendable ways of well-doing , and it is a great advantage to me this day , that i am onely to perswade you not to be weary in this well-doing , for in due season you shall reap if ye faint not . you have already broke through many discouragements , and since the sad calamities of plague and fire , which made such desolations among us , you have done even as to these charitable foundations , what hath been to the admiration and astonishment of beholders . which of us all who saw the city in its ruines , with so many churches and halls and hospitals buried in its rubbish , could ever hope to have lived to see them rise again with a much greater glory ; and our new-built hospitals to appear with that magnificence , that strangers may easily mistake them for palaces ? we have lived in an age that hath beheld strange revolutions , astonishing judgments , and wonderfull deliverances ; what all the fermentations that are still among us may end in , god alone knows ; our unanswerable returns to god for his great mercies may justly make us fear , that he hath greater scourges provided for us ; the best thing we can doe for our selves , is to amend our ways , and to bring forth fruits worthy of amendment of life ; not barely to own and profess the protestant religion , but to adorn it , by holy and exemplary lives , and doing all the good we can while we have opportunity . and to that end i shall offer these considerations , and so conclude . . the more good ye doe , the more comfort you will find in the doing it . therefore be not weary in well-doing . there is a certain secret pleasure and inward satisfaction that follows doing good ; which increases by exercise and continuance . this is so far above the pleasure of the covetous and voluptuous in pursuit of their ends , that it approaches nearest of any thing we can conceive , to the satisfaction of the almighty , who delighteth in doing good. it was a remarkable saying of our saviour , which saint paul preserved , it is more blessed to give than to receive . how happy do the poor think themselves , when those who are rich are bountifull to them ! but the advantage is on your side ; they are the receivers but you are the gainers . what you bestow on them you lay up in store for your selves : which will yield far greater comfort when you come to die than having raised a vast estate : for that is onely carrying a greater account into another world ; but this is a great help to discharge it . . doing good is really one of the best parts of our religion . true religion and undefiled before god and the father is this , to visit the widow and fatherless in their affliction , and to keep himself unspotted from the world. it is not giving a cold formal visit to the widow and fatherless that makes any part of religion , but doing all the good we can to them , by advice and counsel , by supplying their wants and taking care of their affairs . no duty takes in so much of the substance of religion as true charity . it is the fulfilling of the law ; the end of the commandment , i. e. of the gospel ; the bond of perfectness . that , without which , all other pretence to religion is but flattering of god and meer hypocrisie . for all our prayers and praises are but verbal acknowledgments ; that which he hath put the trial of our love to himself upon , is our love to our brethren . for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen , how can he love god whom he hath not seen ? . doing good to others is taking the best care of our selves . we all seem very apprehensive of dangerous times , and very fearfull what may become of us ; the best course every wise and good man can take in difficult and uncertain times , is to doe his own duty and to leave events to god. and there is no duty more unquestionable , more safe , more advantagious , to himself as well as to others , than to doe good : i. e. to be kind and obliging to all , to forgive injuries , to reconcile enemies , to redeem captives , to visit the distressed , and according to our abilities and opportunities to relieve those that are in wants and necessities . this is the way to dwell safely , and to be quiet from the fear of evil ; for as long as god governs the world he will take care of those who commit themselves to him by patient continuance in well-doing . . doing good doth the most answer the obligations god hath laid upon you by the mercies he hath vouchsafed to you . and now give me leave to plead with you the cause of the poor and fatherless children , the cause of the wounded and maimed , who cannot help themselves , the cause of those who deserve so much more pity because they cannot pity themselves , being deprived of the use of their understandings . if god hath provided well for you and for your children , wherein can you better express your thankfulness for such a mercy than by your kindness and charity to those who are destitute of the means to make them men. if you have reason to bless god for your good education , shew it by taking care of theirs who may hereafter bless god for your kindness to them . if god hath blessed you with riches and a plentifull estate in this city , and raised you beyond your hopes and expectations , what can you doe more becoming the members of this city than to be kind to the children of those who have been such and reduced to poverty ? remember from what god hath raised you ; do not think much to consider what you have been , as well as what you are . you can never take the just height of god's mercies to you unless you begin at the bottom ; and let others measure your height now , as some have done that of the pyramid's , by the length of your shadow , by the refreshments they find under you . think what god hath brought you to , and for what end ; was it for your own sakes , that you might be full , while others are empty ; that you might swim in abundance , while others are pinched with necessities ? was it not rather to make you his conduit-pipes to convey blessing and comforts to others through your means ? when you are in health and at ease , then think of the miserable condition of those who lie in hospitals under aches and pains and sores , having nothing to comfort them , but the charity of good people to them . they cannot represent their own condition to you , being unable to come abroad to do it . be you good samaritans to the wounded and hurt , bind up their wounds with your kindness , and help to defray the charges of their cures . this is loving our neighbour as our selves , and that is fulfilling the law , and the great design of the gospel . lastly , when you think what a blessing it is that you do enjoy the use of your reason and vnderstanding , pity the poor creatures whom god hath deprived of it . how easily , how justly , how suddenly may god cast you into their condition ? shew the esteem that you have of this mercy of god to your selves , by the freeness of your charity to those that want it . therefore , i conclude in the words of the text , let us not be weary in any of these ways of well-doing , for in due season we shall reap if we faint not . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e dr. willet's synops . papismi , p. . . notes for div a -e sozom. l. . c. . hist. trip. l. . c. . gal. . . . . ch. , . ch. , . part of . gal. . . . . . . . gal. . . . . gal. . . . act. . . tim. . . tit. . . tit. . . heb. . . tim. . . cor. . . . thess. . . jam. . . proposals for imployment of the poor , p. . . luk. . . matt. . . luk. . . . . tim. . . gal. . . matt. . , . stat. de eliz. c. . & jac. c. . car. . c. . co. . instit . . john . . matt. . . . visito , poto , cibo , redimo , tego , colligo , condo . consule , castiga , solare , remitte , fer , ora . . . q. . art . . cajet . in . . q. . art . . matt. . . matt. . . john . . jul. ep. ad arsac . cor. . , , . gal. . . cor. , . ch . cor. . , , , , . cor. . . v. . v. . v. , . cor. . . . . v. . . . . . . eccles. . . heb. . . cor. . . psal. . . . , . ruth . . v. . matt. . , , . v. . act. . . jam. . . gal. . . tim. . . coloss. . . john . . a sermon preached november v, , at st. margarets westminst by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached november v, , at st. margarets westminst by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . the second edition. [ ], p. printed by robert white, for henry mortlock ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t. -- matthew vii, - -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - rachel losh sampled and proofread - rachel losh text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached november v. . at s t. margarets vvestminst . by edward stillingfleet , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . the second edition . london , printed , by robert white , for henry mortlock , and are to be sold at the white hart in westminster hall , and at the phoenix in st. pauls church-yard . . s t. matth . vii . , . beware of false prophets , which come to you in sheeps clothing , but inwardly they are ravening wolves . ye shall know them by their fruits . if we were to judge of the nature of christianity by the designs and practices of some , who would be thought the only true and catholick christians , we should have no great reason to esteem it our honour to be called by his name , who first brought this religion into the world . for if the christian religion did indeed justifie all the fraud and treachery , the mischief and cruelty which hath been either acted or designed by men under the glorious pretence of advancing the interest of the catholick church , we might better choose not to be christians , than to be such men : because whatever religion overthrows the common principles and duties of humane nature , such as those of civil obedience , integrity and humanity are , cannot be supposed a religion proper or intended by god for mankind ; whose great end in religion is to improve and rectifie , and not to debauch or corrupt the dispositions of men . men need no religion to instruct them in the arts of deceiving , the contrivances of malice , or the methods of revenge ; such fruits as these spring up too easily in our corrupt and degenerate natures , which need no great force or improvement to bring them forth : but when the warmth of the sun shall be joyned with the fruitfulness of the soil , when men are encouraged to pursue their own natural inclinations by the most powerful motives of religion , what bounds can be set to the growth and increase of these accursed fruits ? of all religions in the world , we might have thought the christian least lyable to be abused to such ill purposes ; for it was one of machiavel's quarrels against christianity , that by its precepts of meekness and patience , it rendred men unfit for such great undertakings , which could not be accomplished without something of cruelty and inhumanity , whereas the old religions by the multitude of sacrifices did inure men to blood and destruction , and so made them fitter for any enterprise . and machiavel was certainly in the right , if religion were intended only to make men butchers : or to instruct them in the use of swords and gun-powder . nay , the religion of mahomet is in this respect to be very much preferred before the christian , for that makes it not only lawful to destroy those of a different religion , but enrolls them for martyrs that dye in the field , and makes the blood of enemies as meritorious , as we do that of the cross. but that is reserved as the peculiar honour of the christian religion , that it commands the subduing all the bruitish and savage inclinations of men to acts of revenge and cruelty ; that it restores humane nature to it self by its precepts of meekness , mercy , peaceableness , and universal charity ; that it advances it to a divine nature by the imitation of god himself , in shewing kindness to enemies , and overcoming evil with good . this is the religion established by our lord and saviour in this excellent sermon on the mount , wherein the scope and design of christianity is delivered with the greatest plainness and perspicuity ; which ( if it be possible for us to judge of his meaning by the clearest expressions ) was far enough from being the setting up a monarchy in the church to which all the kings of the christian world are by their baptism bound to vail their crowns , and lay their scepters at its feet : or in case they do not , that then this spiritual monarch may excommunicate , depose , and deprive princes of their government , and dissolve all the obligations between their subjects and them ; and make it lawful for them to depose them : we find not the least footstep of any thing tending this way , where our saviour speaks most advantageously concerning the honour of his disciples ; which honour he represents by things which set forth their usefulness in common : ye are the salt of the earth , ye are the light of the world ; and not by setting up one above all the rest , far above all principalities and powers , to whom kings and princes , and all people are bound to be subject , if they regard their salvation . if any such thing as this had been so material a part of the christian doctrine , as some imagine , if it had been so necessary to salvation , it is somewhat strange , that when our blessed saviour gave so many directions in order to salvation he should give not so much as the least intimation concerning this . and yet he saith , at the end of this sermon , every one that heareth these sayings of mine , and doth them , is like unto a wise man that built his house upon a rock ; not super hanc petram , i e. according to the roman gloss , upon the popes authority ; but upon such a firm foundation as will never fail him . and what is it which our saviour endeavours to perswade men to , in order to so firm a settlement of their minds against all the assaults of persecutions ? viz. to humility , meekness , goodness , univeral holiness , to the love of god and mankind , to sincerity in devotion , dependence on providence , prayer , and doing as we would be done by : this is the substance of the christian law delivered by the son of god ; than which nothing can be imagined more contrary to the spirit of faction and disobedience , of cruelty and revenge , and that covered over with a pretence of zeal for religion . but he who gave these excellent precepts , did foresee , that there would arise men who should preach and prophesie in his name , and in his name cast out devils , and do wonderful works : that yet for all their fair shews and pretences to the world should be of a temper and disposition directly contrary to the gospel ; and therefore it was necessary for all christians , as they valued their own welfare , to have an eye to them , lest they should be deceived by them : which is the meaning of our saviour in these words ; beware of false prophets which come to you in sheeps clothing , but inwardly they are ravening wolves ; by their fruits ye shall know them . wherein we have these two things considerable . . the caution given , beware of false prophets , together with the ground of that caution , for they come to you in sheeps clothing , but inwardly are ravening wolves . . the rule laid down whereby we are to judge of them : by their fruits ye shall know them . . the caution given , beware of false prophets . there were two sorts of deceivers our saviour gives his disciples particular caution against , viz. false christs and false prophets ; the false christs were those who pretended that they were the persons who were foretold by the prophets that should come for the redemption of his people ; for many shall come in my name , saying , i am christ , and shall deceive many . not as though they pretended to be sent by christ , but that they would assume to themselves the dignity and authority of the true messias ; and of this sort , there were many that arose among the jews , such as theudas , jonathas , barchochebas , and many others . but besides these , there were false prophets , some of which did openly oppose christianity , such as that bar-jesus mentioned in the acts ; but there were others who pretended to own christianity , and to prophesie in the name of christ , whom s. peter calls false teachers ; and whom s. paul describes by the same character that our saviour here doth : but i know that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you , not sparing the flock : also of your own selves shall men arise , speaking perverse things , to draw disciples after them : whom he elsewhere sets forth by their sheeps clothing ; when he saith , that by good words and fair speeches they deceive the hearts of the simple , whom he calls false apostles , deceitful workers transforming themselves into the apostles of christ : which carryed so fair a shew and appearance among the people , that s. paul was very full of jealousie and apprehension concerning them , lest they should by degrees draw away his disciples from the simplicity of the gospel of christ. for i am jealous over you , saith he , with godly jealousie ; but i fear lest by any means as the serpent beguiled eve through his subtilty , so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in christ. it may seem strange , that after the apostles had with so much care and diligence planted the gospel of christ in several churches , they should express so much fear as they did , ( and especially s. paul ) of their being so soon corrupted by these false teachers ; as he doth , not only of the corinthians , but of the galatians too . i marvel , saith he , that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of christ. and o foolish galatians , who hath bewitched you , that you should not obey the truth ? and of the ephesians , that we henceforth be no more children tossed to and fro , and carryed about with every wind of doctrine , by the sleight of men , and cunning craftiness , whereby they lye in wait to deceive : and of the colossians , beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit , after the tradition of men , after the rudiments of the world , and not after christ. and let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels : and of the hebrews , be not carried about with diverse and strange doctrines . but we shall see this great caution , delivered here first by our saviour , and afterwards by his apostles , was no more than necessary , if we consider under what pretences they came , and what arts and methods these false teachers used to delude and seduce the people . . they pretended to the same infallible spirit which the apostles had . and this may be the reason , why our saviour doth not here call them false teachers , but false prophets . for prophecy in its proper notion doth not relate to future events , but to divine inspiration . so s. chrysostom saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a prophet , saith he , is the same with gods interpreter : so the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used in greek authors , as in the author of the book de mundo , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is rendered by apuleius effari caeteris ; and festus saith , that the latines called those prophets , which were oraculorum interpretes ; and so the hebrew words are taken in the same sense without any relation to foretelling things to come . so moses is said to be a god to pharaoh , and aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet : i. e. thy interpreter . abraham is called a prophet , and the patriarchs are all called prophets , in regard that divine revelations were more common before the written law : but the reason why the name of prophecy came to be restrained to the prediction of things to come , was because future events lying most out of the reach of mens knowledge , the fore-telling of these was looked upon as the greatest evidence of divine inspiration . but in the new testament prophesying is often taken for the gift of interpreting the hard places of the old testament , as themistius calls one that interpreted the hard places in aristotle , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; thence prophesying is reckoned among the spiritual gifts ; and so these false prophets were not men who pretended to fore-tell future events , but to the assistance of an infallible spirit , in giving the sense of scripture ; and by this pretence they transformed themselves into the apostles of christ , giving out that they enjoyed equal priviledges with them : whereby three things may be observed which deserve our consideration . . that nothing is more easie , than for false teachers to pretend to an infallible spirit ; such whom our saviour and his apostles did warn men especially against , pretended to be prophets and apostles , and to know the mind of christ better than they who truly had the assistance of the holy ghost . some think the bare pretence to infallibility ought in such a divided state of the christian world to be entertained as the best expedient to end controversies , and that church which doth alone challenge it , ought on that account to be submitted to ; as though the most confident pretenders were to be soonest believed : so they will be , do what we can , by the weakest sort of mankind , but by none who have and use their judgements . if bare pretences were sufficient , simon magus did bid the fairest to be head of the church , for he pretended to be gods vicar upon earth , or the divine power sent down from heaven , which none of the apostles pretended to . why then did not the christian church submit to montanus his paraclete , when no other christians pretended to such an immediate inspiration as he did ? and certainly prisca and maximilla were better oracles , than a crucifix was to a late pope . if there be any thing beyond a bare pretence to an infallible spirit , we desire to see better arguments for it , than the false apostles could produce for theirs ; if there be nothing but a bare pretence , we must leave the pope and quakers to dispute it out . . that the pretence to divine inspiration is very dangerous to the christian church . for we see what mischief it did in the apostolical times , when there was a true infallible spirit in the apostles of christ to discover and confute it ; yet notwithstanding all the care and diligence of the apostles many were seduced by it . for those who have the least ground , do commonly use the greatest confidence , and denounce hell and damnation the soonest to those who despise and reject them . which being expressed with a grim countenance and a terrible accent , startles and shakes more persons of weak judgements and timorous dispositions , than all the reasons and arguments they could ever produce . this hath alwayes been the method of deceivers , to pretend to the highest , and then make the sin of those who do not believe them as great , as if the thing were real . thus the rejecting mens fanatick pretences to revelations and extasies is cryed out upon , as blaspheming the holy ghost ; and refusing to believe upon the roman churches pretended infallibility , is called no less , than denying gods veracity . we profess to believe the true inspiration of the holy ghost , and every tittle of what god hath revealed : but we will not swallow pretences for evidences , nor enthusiasms for revelations . for as the true religion was at first founded upon divine inspiration ; so we know that the greatest corruptions of it have sprung from the pretence to it . maimonides saith , that the first beginning of pagan idolatry , was owing to the pretence of inspiration , and immediate revelations for the worship of the stars . however that be , we are certain the devil made use of oracles and enthusiasms , as the most effectual means to bring men to the practice of it , both in aegypt , in greece and many other places ; and they who have taken the pains to collect them , have reckoned one hundred and sixty several oracles that were in request in the times of paganism . after christianity began to be setled in the world , the greatest corrupters of it were the pretenders to dinive inspiration , as the false apostles , the gnosticks , the montanists , and many others . and the pretence to this , is so much the more dangerous , because it bids high , and is easily taken up , and requires no learning or wit , but only confidence to manage it , and may carry men by impulses and motions to the most unwarrantable actions , and where it meets with an enthusiastical temper , is very hardly removed . . we may observe , that a truly infallible spirit is not sufficient to put an end to controversies . for when was that ever more evident than in the holy apostles after the miraculous descent of the holy ghost upon them ? many are apt to say now , that there will never be an end of these wranglings , and schisms , and disputes in religion , till there be an infallible judge to put an issue to them ; but were there not infallible judges in the apostles time , that gave infinitely greater evidence of an infallible spirit , than any ever since have done ? but were controversies put to an end by it ? no certainly , when the apostles complain so much of the schisms , and divisions , and errors , and heresies , and disputes , and quarrellings that were among them . and if so great an evidence of a divine spirit manifested by their miracles , had no greater effect then , what can we imagine the shadow of s. peter , or the dream of infallibility can do in the roman church ? and give me leave to say , it is the inquisition and not infallibility , which keep things quiet among them . but god deliver us from such an end of controversies . . the false prophets and apostles pretended to greater mortification and self-denyal than the true apostles did s hierom understands their coming in sheeps clothing , of this pretence to greater severity , and rigour of life than others used . those that go about to deceive , must appear to have something extraordinary this way , to raise an admiration of them among those who judge of saints more by their looks , than by their actions . whereas the greatest hypocrites have been alwayes the greatest pretenders this way . our blessed saviour was so far from making any shew of this rigour and severity , that he was reproached by the scribes and pharisees , those mortified saints , to be a wine-bibber , a friend to publicans and sinners . alas ! what heavenly looks , and devout gestures , and long prayers , and frequent fastings had they more than christ or his disciples ? the poor widows were so ravished with their long prayers , that they thought they could not do better with their houses or estates , than to put them into the hands of such mortified men to the world : till they found , notwithstanding their sheeps clothing , that by their devouring they were ravening wolves . those that seem so much to fly from the world , do but as souldiers in a battel sometimes do , that seem to fly from their enemies , but only with a design to make them follow , that they may have the more advantage upon them . one would think no men were so afraid of the world , as they that seem to run so fast from it , but they lay their ambuscado's to entrap it ; and if once it gets into their hand , no men know better how to be revenged upon it . what pleasant incongruities are these ? to see men grow rich by vows of poverty , retired from the world , and yet the most unquiet and busie in it ? mortified to the pleasures of life , and yet delighting most in following the courts of princes ? such kind of men were the pharisees of old : and who would have thought , that under the name of that jesus , who so much detested and abhorred their hypocrisie , there should others arise , who have outdone them in their own way ? as though christ had said , except your righteousness be like the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees , ye shall not enter in the kingdom of heaven . but we need not wonder that in these latter ages such pretences should be made use of , since in the very beginning of the christian church , these were the common arts of deceivers . they found fault with the apotles , as giving too much liberty to men in the use of marriage and meats ; but they thought the state of the one was not agreeable to their sanctity , nor the free use of the other consistent with their severe and mortified life . for they did forbid to marry , and commanded to abstain from meats . they would not make use of the liberty which god had allowed , but they were ready to take that which he had forbidden : therefore the apostle gives the true character of them when he saith , they spake lyes in hypocrisie . there was an outward shew of sanctity and severity in their doctrine ; but no men are observed by ecclesiastical historians to have been more eager of what god had forbidden , than they who were so scrupulous about what god had allowed . we do not say , the case is altogether the same , where men are forbidden absolutely , as though marriage were unlawful in it self ; which was the case of the antient hereticks ; and where it is forbidden only to a particular order of men , as it is in the church of rome : but this we say , that where it is forbidden to a particular order of men , as though it did not become the sanctity of that order ; this is reviving that hypocrisie which s. paul condemns : especially when it is forbidden on such an account as pope siricius did it , because they that are in the flesh cannot please god ; which is in effect sending all married persons to hell. this was one part of the pretended mortification of false teachers about marriage , the other was about meats . s. paul knew no such holiness in one sort of meat above another , as though men could fast their bellies full of one , but the least taste of the other destroyed it . what a pleasant thing it is to account that fasting , which the unmortified epicures of old accounted their most delicious feasting , viz. fish and wine ! this is not doing so much as the pharisees did , for they appeared unto men to fast : but in the church of rome they cannot be said to do that , unless fasting and eating be the same thing . but may not the church call not eating prohibited meat fasting ? no doubt it may ; as well as call that no bread , which we see , and taste , and handle to be bread . however i cannot understand , but if their church had so pleased , the eating flesh and abstaining from fish might have been called fasting ; and so they might have made one entire fast of a whole years eating : and notwithstanding all the pretence of fasting and mortification in that church , i cannot see that any man is bound by the laws of it , to keep one true fast all the dayes of his life . but if all the mortification required , lyes only in a distinction of meats , the false apostles went beyond them in it ; for they utterly forbid some sorts , saying , touch not , taste not , handle not ; and not meerly to shew their obedience to the commands of the church , but that they might not gratifie the desires of the flesh , and therefore the apostle saith , these things had on that account a shew of wisdom in them ; being in all probability taken from the severe precepts of the pythagorean philosophy , which makes him bid them , beware lest they were spoiled through philosophy and vain deceit , after the tradition of men , and the principles of the world , and not after christ. for if this sort of mortification were a thing so pleasing to god , the heathen principles were more agreeable to his nature , than the doctrine of christianity . this only requires the subduing our inward lusts , and in order to that , to keep the body in subjection ; but in the mysteries of the heaten religion far greater severities were to be undergone , in order to their participation of them . and the hardships were so great in some of their initiations , especially those of mithras , that some dyed before they could pass through them : and yet for any to be admitted without them , was present death to them . they were to make confession of their sins , shave their heads , change their habits , lye upon the bare ground , fast for several dayes , and when they eat , it was to be only of some certain meats ; these and many other severities they were to go through in order to the purifying their souls , as they thought , and bringing them to the state they were in before they came into the body . some part of these hardships the pythagoreans took into their philosophy ; and from them the colossians began to be infected with them : but s. paul calls them only vain deceits , the commandments and doctrines of men , things that made a fair shew , but he looks upon them as corruptions of the doctrine of christ. yet afterwards the montanists and encratitae and others were much stricter and more frequent in these fasts and abstinence , than the catholick christians ; but the church thought fit to condemn them , as corrupters of christianity . by all which we see , how apt men are to be deceived by false teachers , when they pretend to so much mortification above what christianity requires from them . . they pretended to know the mind of christ better than the apostles did : they pretended , that they had conversed familiarly with christ upon earth , and understood his meaning better than the apostles did . and therefore their disciples in the church of corinth , were neither for paul , nor apollos , nor cephas , but they were only for christ : and gave out that from him they understood , that what he had said concerning the resurrection , was only to be understood of the state of regeneration : which doctrine it seems had gotten great footing in the church of corinth by their means . they reported , that the apostles understood only some common and ordinary things , but the deeper and more hidden mysteries were only made known to them : which makes s. paul in his epistles to those churches which they had corrupted , speak so often of his understanding the mysteries of god : but we speak the wisdom of god in a mysterie , even the hidden wisdom which god ordained before the world to our glory : having made known unto us the mysterie of his will : whereby ye may understand my knowledge in the mysterie of christ. the true apostles declared , that they kept back nothing of the counsel of god , but delivered it openly and plainly , to make all men see and understand what that mysterie was : the false apostles pretended , that the doctrine and writings of the apostles did not contain all the great mysteries of the gospel , but they were received from christs own mouth , and conveyed to others by a secret and oral tradition . the things written by the evangelists they could not deny to be true , but they were dark and obscure , and could not be understood but by the help of their oral tradition : and upon this principle , cerinthus , basilides , valentinus , and marcion went , as appears by irenaeus . for when they saw , they could never make good their doctrines by the writings of the new testament they sought to blast the reputation of these , and set up the authority of an oral tradition above them . men do not use to pick quarrels with their friends ; and therefore when we find any charging the scripture with obscurity and imperfection , we have reason to believe , they hope for no comfort from it . . they made use of the most subtle and crafty methods of deceiving . to this end they were very busie and active , watching every opportunity ; therefore s. paul charges them with sleight and cunning craftiness , lying in wait to deceive : i.e. with using all the arts and tricks of deceivers : as ( . ) by deep dissimulation and disguising themselves ; not appearing at first to be what they really are ; nor letting them understand , what their true doctrine and design is . if any of those they hope to gain , object any thing against them , how do they pity their ignorance , and revile their teachers , that did so foully misrepresent their doctrines to them ! alas for them poor men , they neither understand us nor our religion ! they have taken up things upon trust , & their prejudice will not suffer them to examine things as they are . have you not been told thus and thus concerning us , and not one word of it is true ? never trust such men more , come be perswaded by us , and then you shall be truly enlightned . ( . ) by raising prejudices against their teachers ; as they did in the church of corinth against s. paul , representing him as a man of a mean and contemptible presence , and rude in speech . come , say they , and hear our preachers , with what admirable eloquence and moving expressions they speak , how they dart beams of light into mens minds , and strike through the souls of men ! you would never care for this dull and obscure way of s. paul more . but this is a small thing to disparage only his gifts ; observe say they his doctrine , and see whither it tends , is not he against those that forbid to marry , and abstain from meats ? judge now whither these loose doctrines lead men . so s. paul tell us , that they had represented him as one that walked after the flesh ; and had prevailed so far upon the people by these sly insinuations , as though all he aimed at , was only for his own advantage , viz. that he might be popular , and get himself an interest among that rich people of corinth , so that he tells them , he was fain to live upon other churches to do them service : and he tells us afterwards the false apostles gave the occasion of it : & in the churches of galatia they had turned his greatest friends to be his enemies ; and he give this account of it , they would exclude us , that you might affect them . ( . ) by sowing schisms & divisions among them . this was their master-piece , to beget contentions where they could not prevail themselves . what joy was it to them to see in the church of corinth , such parties and factions made among them ? some for paul , some for apollos , some for cephas , from hence proceeded envying , and strife , and divisions among them ; and this gave them a fair opportunity of breaking them in pieces one against another . and therefore the apostle saw it necessary to use the utmost means to cure these divisions among them ; and elsewhere beseeches the christians to mark them that cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned , and avoid them ; for they that are such , serve not our lord jesus christ but their own belly ; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple : i.e. they carry on their own designs and interests , by these means ; and therefore study all the wayes to foment and increase them . why should the disciples of peter yield to those of paul , and why should not those of apollos be regarded as much as either ? and such was the unhappy success of these mens arts in this divided church of corinth , that notwithstanding all the care of s. paul to put an end to their factions , they brake out with greater fury afterwards , as appears by the epistle of clemens to them : and he takes notice of those who did cast the arrows of contention among them : and therefore he makes that the chief argument of his epistle , to defeat the design of the false teachers , by perswading them to peace and unity among themselves . ( . ) by the most plausible insinuations . by good words and fair speeches , saith s. paul , they deceive the hearts of the simple : they might find by their softness and gentleness that they were in sheeps clothing . how meek and humble , and insinuating are they where they have any hopes of a prey ! how do the bowels of these ravening wolves yearn towards the silly sheep , that look only on their outsides ! they would not hurt a limb of them for all the world ! nothing but meer zeal for their good , could make them run such hazards , and venture so much as they do ! what end could they have in following such stray sheep , but to reduce them to the true sheepfold ? thus , if the wolves may be believed , there is no danger to the sheep , but from their shepherds : let them but forsake them , and then see what admirable love , and peace , and unity they would live together in : but the apostle well adds to all this , deceiving the hearts of the simple , for none else are capable of being thus deceived , by all their fair pretences and plausible insinuations . . the false teachers were for a more pompous and easie way of religion , than the true apostles were : these were for the purity and simplicity of the gospel of christ , the other were for joyning the iewish ceremonies and the heathen customs : together with it ; and by this means they hoped with much more ease to gain proselytes to them ; especially when to this they added a greater liberty in mens lives ; so that by these offers , they hoped to gain the vain , the superstitious , and the profaner sort wholly to them see how s paul describes them , having a form of godliness , but denying the power of it ; for of this sort are they which creep into houses , and lead captive silly women laden with sins , led away with divers lusts . these were subjects rightly disposed to be deceived by them : their folly made them capable , and their lusts very tractable to such a formal , pompous , easie religion : it was by this indulgence of men in their sins , that vile sect of the gnosticks gained so much ground in the beginnings of christianity . s. chrysostom thinks these words of our saviour have a particular respect to the foregoing words , strait is the gate and narrow is the way that leadeth unto life , and few there be that find it . now these words coming immediately after seem to imply , that these false prophets were for making the gate wider , and the way to heaven larger than christ hath done , and such need not fear they shall have many followers , and especially of those who are farthest from the kingdom of heaven . all the blessedness our saviour promises , is to the humble and contrite , to the meek and righteous , to the merciful , pure and peaceable : but if others make easier conditions of blessedness , no wonder if their doctrine be entertained by those who are willing to be happy , but unwilling to leave their sins . as if false teachers should turn our saviours beatitudes into such as these : blessed are ye , if ye confess your sins to a priest , and receive the sacrament of penance , for your sins are forgiven . blessed are ye , if ye vow poverty , and leave the world ; for ye shall inherit the earth . blessed are ye , if ye go in pilgrimages , and visit the seven churches ( especially in a year of iubilee , and receive the popes benediction ) for ye shall be called the children of god. blessed are ye , if ye do or suffer evil for the catholick churches sake ; for great shall be your reward in heaven . blessed are they , that howsoever they live , dye in s. francis his habit , for theirs is the kingdom of heaven . for so gregory the ninth saith , that s. francis obtained this priviledge of god , that whosoever had that habit on , could not dye ill : and s. francis adds himself , that whosoever loved his order in his heart , how great a sinner soever he was , should obtain mercy of god. and are not these much easier terms of blessedness , than those our saviour layes down ? besides , that which makes the way to heaven more narrow , is that our saviour declares , he came not to destroy the law , but to fulfill it : and adds precepts of his own to it : but do not they make the way to heaven much opener , that teach men to dissolve both the law and the precepts of christ ? for this is the language of these false teachers , if we bring their doctrine to the manner of our saviours expressions . ye have heard , that it hath been said of old , thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve ; but we say unto you , that ye are to give worship both to saints and angels . ye have heard , that it hath been said by them of old time ; thou shalt not make to thy self any graven image , nor the likeness of any thing , &c. but we say unto you , that this command may be left out among christians . you have heard that it hath been said of old , thou shalt not kill : but we say unto you , that to murder princes , blow up parliaments , destroy hereticks is lawful for the good of the catholick church . you have heard , that it hath been said of old , thou shalt not commit adultery : but we say unto you , that marriage in a priest is worse than fornication . thus far for the law ; now let us see the liberty they take as to the precepts of the gospel . ye have heard that it hath been said by christ , drink ye all of this : but we say unto you , that notwithstanding this precept of christ , the laity must not do it . you have heard , that it hath been said by the apostle , that men ought to pray with understanding : but we say unto you , that men need not understand what they pray for . ye have heard that ye have been commanded both by christ and his apostles , to read the scriptures : but we forbid the people to read the scriptures , and say , that more hurt than good comes by it . judge now , whether the character of false teachers do not belong to them , who have found another way , nay , a contrary way to heaven , to that which our saviour directed ? and so much for the caution here given , and the reason annexed to it ; beware of false prophets , for they come to you in sheeps clothing , but inwardly they are ravening wolves . i come now , . to the rule laid down by our saviour for the judging of them ; by their fruits ye shall know them . he doth not send men to an infallible judge to know the true and false teachers from each other , but layes down such a rule as he supposed might be sufficient to direct men in their judgement of them . if christ had ever intended to have left such a vicar upon earth , whose judgement all christians are bound to follow , he would never have put them to such a needless tryal of mens doctrines by their fruits : the short and plain way had been to have said thus , there will false teachers arise , but remember that you are to obey and follow the bishop of rome ; and if you will be saved , i command you to hold in communion with him . this had been the fullest and clearest direction in the world , and no doubt , if our blessed saviour had meant any such thing , such was his care of the souls of men , this would have been one of the first and plainest precepts of the gospel . but so dark and obscure , so remote and impertinent are the proofs brought from scripture for the popes supremacy , that i dare say , that aristotles politicks do prove it much better than any text in the bible : and those i suppose have been of my opinion , who slightly passing over the passages of scripture , have been large in proving , that monarchy is the best government , and therefore ought to be in the church . which argument if it have any force for an universal monarchy in the church , i should not at all wonder to see the same persons zealous to promote an universal monarchy in the world too . for if the argument in the canon law be good , that the pope is above the emperour , because god created two great lights , the sun and the moon : i hope the same reason , which will prove it necessary for the sun to rule the day , will equally hold , that the moon should rule the night . and i shall easily agree , that when it will be thought reasonable for all the kings and princes in the world to submit themselves to one universal monarch , it may be then expedient for all particular churches , to give up their rights to the pope . in the mean time we think it most convenient to follow our saviours rules , to judge of mens pretences , how great and haughty soever , by the fruits they produce . which rule is not to be understood concerning the particular actions of men which have no respect to their doctrines ; for as s. chrysostom observes , many hereticks have been men of excellent lives , and so on the contrary ; but we are to understand it of those fruits which their doctrines have a direct influence upon . and therefore this rule hath a particular respect to two things by which we are to examine the fairest pretences : viz. . the design they tend to . . the means made use of for the accomplishing this design . if therefore the design be quite of another nature from that of the gospel ; if the means be such as are directly contrary to it , we may from thence justly inferr , that how plausible soever the pretences are , how fine and soft soever the sheeps clothing be , yet inwardly they are ravening wolves . . i begin therefore , with the design of their doctrines . nothing is more easie , than for men to understand the design of christianity , viz. the exercise of all christian vertues to fit men for the kingdom of heaven : for our saviour declares , that his kingdom is not of this world ; that he came not to meddle with the rights of princes , or to dispose of crowns and dominions ; all that he aimed at , was to possess men with a firm belief of another world , and by the most powerful motives to perswade men to repentance , and a sober , righteous , and a godly life . and if they did these things , what ever troubles and difficulties they met with in this world , should be abundantly recompensed in that to come . this is the main scope and design of the christian religion ; and the great art of the false prophets lay in this , that they pretended still to own christianity , ( which was their sheeps clothing ) but withal by secret and pernicious mixtures of their own doctrines to undermine and pervert the whole design of it . so s. paul saith of them , not that they did oppose , but that they did pervert the gospel of christ. i marvel , saith he , that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of christ to another gospel : which yet is not another , but there be some that trouble you ; and would pervert the gospel of christ. now i desire , it may be considered , whether any thing doth more effectually pervert the design of the gospel , than the setting up a kingdom in this world under the pretence of it , that should be paramount to all princes and potentates , and to which they owe subjection and obedience ? and yet this hath been the open and avowed design of the prevailing faction in the church of rome for the last six hundred years . i do not deny but there were some tendencies to it before , and wise men might easily guess what it would come to , if the design came once to be managed by a man of spirit and courage , as it was by gregory the seventh , who in a council at rome published his famous dictates , viz. that there is but one name in the world , viz. that of the pope : that it was in his power to depose emperours , and absolve subjects from obedience to their princes . now the grand design breaking out , all other things were contrived and carried on which were thought necessary to accomplish it : and there being two things needful for the maintenance of such a pretended monarchy , viz. sufficient numbers of men , whose interest should lye in upholding it ; and great revenues to support the dignity of it : these two were taken care of with all the art and industry imaginable . for the first , it was necessary to disengage them from all civil interests , and yet to preserve their honour and reputation with the people . the former could not be done while the clergy gave hostages of their fidelity to the civil government by the interest of their families and children , therefore this pope did most severely forbid all clergy mens marrying ; that as the old roman souldiers were forbidden marriage while they received pay , lest their domestick interests should abate their courage ; so the celibate of the clergy was strictly enjoyned , to make them more useful and hearty for this design . but lest the number of these should not be thought sufficient , great swarms of monks and friers were encouraged and dispersed in all countreys , and to make them more faithful to this interest ( because princes might oblige particular bishops who might curb and restrain these spiritual ianizaries ) therefore they were exempt from their jurisdiction , and kept in immediate dependence on the pope . to give yet further encouragement to both orders , the doctrine of ecclesiastical liberty was set on foot ; not a liberty from the law of moses , or the power of sin , or the dominion of satan , which is all the liberty the gospel speaks of ; but an exemption from the power of the civil magistrate ; in so much , that the popish casuists determine , that rebellion in a clergy-man is no treason , because he is not subject to the civil power . and this doctrine of liberty is no invention of the iesuits ; but it is determined by the famous councils of constance , lateran , and trent , that lay persons have no iurisdiction over ecclesiastical . but besides this , the pope hath other tyes upon them ; every bishop is at this day sworn to obey the pope at his consecration ; all the regular clergy are under a vow of blind obedience to their superiours , who are more immediately influenced by the court of rome . now such an infinite number of persons being made thus sure to the papal interest , it must be so ordered , that these persons may preserve their reputation among the people ; to this end , they are told , that they must depend wholly upon the priesthood for matters of faith and salvation ; and it is of mighty concernment to them to have the good will of the priests , for that upon their good or bad intention depends the making or marring of their sacraments . but that no designs might be carried on , which they should not understand , never was there such an invention to that purpose , as auricular confession : and yet that the people may have greater reverence to their priests , they are told , that they can make their god at any time by pronouncing the five words of consecration . and what cannot they do , ( as one of them bravely said ) while they have their god in their hands , and their prince on his knees ? and both these doctrines of confession and transubstantiation were defined by the same pope innocent the third , a man of the same spirit and undertakings with gregory the seventh . and lastly , that no supplies should be wanting to support the grandeur of the papal see , besides the pretended donations and concessions of princes , all arts imaginable were used to drain money out of all countreys in subjection to the pope , and to empty it into the popes treasury . this very kingdom of ours was a remarkable instance of this , during its vassallage under the popes tyranny . for an account being taken in henry the eighths time , it was found , that in the compass of forty years foregoing , no less a sum than l. was carried to rome upon the sole account of investiture of bishops , besides the vast summs that were raised by peter-pence , dispensations and indulgences , which were a kind of contribution upon the sins of the people . thus we see , how the design was laid and managed for an universal monarchy in the church . but some will say , that the world is grown wiser now . i heartily wish it were so ; for nothing would be more prejudicial to the papal interest , than its being so . but let us not deceive our selves , the pretensions are as high and as great at rome to this monarchy as ever they were . and what ever some vainly distinguish of the court and church of rome in this matter , it is certain those of the court of rome not only assert , but prove it too , that this doctrine hath been the doctrine of the roman church for six hundred years ; and they produce for it besides a great number of authors no fewer than ten councils , whereof two are allowed by them to be general , viz. those of lyons and lateran . but this is not all , but they contend for it not as a probable opinion , but as a thing certain and of faith , and that not barely at rome , but even in france . for in the memory of many yet alive , after a hot debate in a general assembly of the three estates at paris , the popes power of deposing princes was assented to by all the nobility and clergy of that kingdom . some particular persons among them , may and do oppose it of late ; but they are excommunicated at rome for doing it ; and thereby declared as much as they can be , not to be members of their church , for daring to oppose so orthodox and catholick a doctrine as the popes power of deposing princes . nay , cardinal perron saith in his eloquent oration to the third estate at paris , who opposed this doctrine , that unless it were approved , it followed that the church of rome for many ages hath been the kingdom of antichrist , and synagogue of satan : and king iames tells us , that the pope in his letter of thanks to the nobility , for complying with this blessed doctrine , called the commons or deputies of the third estate , nebulones ex faece plebis , a pack of knaves of the very dregs of the people . very obliging language from the head of the church ! when all that the commons desired , was only to have this opinion condemned , that the pope hath power to depose princes , and that killing of kings is an act meritorious to the purchase of the crown of martyrdom : but this by all their instances and arguments , they could never obtain ; but the nobility and clergy over-ruled them in it . for the clergy king iames saith , he did not wonder so much , because they look on themselves as properly subjects to the pope , and therefore are bound to advance that monarchy to which they belong . but for the nobility , saith he , the kings right arm , to prostitute , and set as it were to sale , the dignity of their king , as if the arm should give a thrust unto the head ; i say , for the nobility to hold and maintain even in parliament their king is lyable to deposition by any forreign power or potentate , may it not pass for one of the strangest miracles , and rarest wonders of the world ? for that once granted , this consequence is good and necessary ; that in case the king once lawfully deposed , shall stand upon the defensive , and hold out for his right , he may then be lawfully murthered . which consequence is very well understood at rome , and allowed to be good by the roman casuists ; and yet the eloquent cardinal calls that doctrine which makes princes indeposable by the pope , a breeder of schisms , a gate that makes way for all heresie to enter ; and a doctrine to be held in such detestation , that rather than he and his fellow bishops will yield to the signing thereof , they will be contented like martyrs to burn at a stake . blessed martyrs the mean while ! and fit to be put in the same calendar with the gunpowder traitors , who suffered , as i shall shew presently , on the same principle ; methinks they might have chosen a better cause to have dyed martyrs for . but surely it must be an article of faith , and a main point of their religion , which makes men martyrs who suffer for it . and such no doubt , it is accounted among them ; when the same cardinal saith , that it leads men not only to unavoidable schism , but manifest heresie to deny it ; and that it obliges men to confess , that the catholick church hath for many ages perished from the earth ; for he confidently avows it , that all parties in the catholick churh have held it , and the whole french church till the time of calvin ; that if this doctrine be not true , the pope is so far from being head of the church and vicar of christ , that he is a heretick and antichrist , and all the parts of their church are the limbs of antichrist . and if they be so , we cannot help it : but think we have great reason to secure our selves against the infection of such pernicious principles both to christianity and the civil government . and what can be more opposite to the design of christianity , when that requires men to obey even infidel and heathen governours for conscience sake , this doctrine makes it lawful to depose , destroy , and murder christian princes for the pope and the churches sake ? this is the first thing we are to examine false teachers by ; viz. the design of their doctrines . . by the means made use of to accomplish this design : if things in themselves evil , repugnant to the principles of humane nature , and those of civil societies , as well as to the precepts of christianity , are made lawful only for the carrying on their design , we need not go farther to examine them ; for by these fruits we may know them . there are three things which mainly uphold civil societies , truth , obedience , and a care of the good of others ; but if men fall not through any sudden infirmity or surprize , but openly and avowedly justifie the lawfulness of falshood , treason and cruelty , when they are intended for the carrying on their design ; what could they invent more contrary to the laws both of god and man ? where in could they better discover themselves , notwithstanding their sheeps clothing , to be meer ravening wolves ? . falshood , and that both in their words and dealings . . in their words , by asserting the lawfulness of aequivocation and mental reservation in their most solemn answers : as father garnett , when the lords asked him , whether he had any conference with hall ? denyed it upon his soul , and reiterated it with such horrible execrations as wounded their hearts that heard him , and immediately upon hall 's confessing it , he excused himself by the benefit of aequivocation : which being objected against garnett after his execution , the roman jesuite eudaemon iohannes defends him in it , and saith it is lawful for a man to swear , and take the sacrament upon it , when he knows in his conscience , what he saith to be absolutely false , if he doth not help himself by a mental reservation . and tresham a little before his death in the tower subscribed it with his own hand , that he had not seen garnett in sixteen years before , when it was evidently proved , and garnett confessed they had been together but the summer before ; and all that garnett had to say for him was , that he supposed he meant to aequivocate . lord ! that men going into another world , should think thus grosly to impose upon god and men . what was speech intended for , if not that others might understand our meaning by it ? did ever any man tell a lye to himself ? truth in words consists in an entire proposition , and not of one half-spoken and half-concealed ? and if it be lawful thus to abuse mankind , it was to no purpose ever to forbid lying ; for any but meer fools may help themselves in their most solemn protestations , by some secret reserve in their own minds : and so this principle makes way for all the lyes or perjuries in the world , if a man thinks that he is not bound to betray himself , or if he judges his own damage will be greater by discovering the truth , than the others damage will be by concealing it . . falshood in dealings : and that notwithstanding the most solemn promises , nay , the safe-conducts of princes . for notwithstanding all their shifts and evasions in this matter , no man that regards his safety , will ever put his life into their hands for the sake of the council of constance . all that they have to say is , that the emperour did as much as lay in him to do ; but it belonged to the council to proceed upon hereticks , and the emperour could not hinder that . and what is this , but plainly to say , that princes are to keep their words with infidels and catholicks , but they have nothing to do to keep their words with hereticks ? and if this be their principle , we must have a care how far we trust them . . treason . it is the honour of our church of england , that it asserts the rights of princes so clearly and fully , without tricks and reservations ; and all that mean honestly , love to speak plainly . but how many cases have they in the church of rome , wherein men are acquitted from their duty from their princes ? if a toy comes into the popes head , or upon some pique or jealousie , he falls to the censures of the church , & excommunicates a prince : what a case is this poor prince in as to all those subjects that think themselves bound to obey the pope ? they may lawfully in their own opinion rise against him , fight with him , assassinate and murder him . and which is very observable , all this while they are not bound to believe the pope infallible in these censures ; so that right or wrong , if a prince chance to fall under the popes censures , we see what a liberty is left to all his creatures to ruine and destroy their soveraign ? the frequent attempts upon q. elizabeth , the murder of henry the third of france after their excommunications by pius the fifth , and sixtus the fifth , are sufficient evidences of the danger of princes in these cases . by which last instance , we see it is not only the case of heresie , which renders them obnoxious to the popes censures ; but particular piques and quarrells ; or if the pope chance to think a man unfit to govern , as in the case of chilperic of france ; or if they detain church-land , belonging to monasteries , in which case becanus saith expresly , kings and princes are to be excommunicated and deprived : and pope paul the fourth was perfectly of his opinion ; and declared , they were in a state of damnation that held them but so far some of them , are kind to princes to say , that they ought not to be deposed , till they are excommunicated ; and yet gregory the seventh before excommunication deprived the emperour henry the fourth for the damnable heresie , of defending his own rights . but since they are lyable to these horrible censures upon so many causes , we may see how very ticklish and uncertain the doctrine of obedience must be among them , and that mens being guilty of treason depends upon the popes pleasure . and methinks , herein the case of princes deserves hugely to be pittyed , that when no man thinks it lawful to cut another mans throat , or put him out of his house and estate , because he is excommunicated ; yet if a prince falls under excommunication , he loses presently his right to the crown , and his subjects may take away crown , liberty , and life from him . . cruelty . and by this they fully discover themselves to be ravening wolves : when they have lost all the tenderness , and love , and good nature of men or christians : when no design can be so horrible or bloody , so mischievous and treacherous , so base and cruel , but persons will be found to undertake it , and that under a pretence of conscience and religion . i need not here tell the long & dreadful stories of the roman inquisition , the numbers of those in other countreys who have been butchered on the account of religion , but the fact , i mean the conspiracy , ( for god be thanked it went not farther ) which we bless god for the discovery and defeating of this day , doth abundantly manifest the fruits of those doctrines , which they had sucked in from the roman church . if only a few desperate persons upon personal provocations had been engaged in so villainous a design , we should have had never the less reason to thank god for our deliverance ; but since it doth appear , that those persons who undertook it , pretended nothing in it but conscience and religion , we have not only reason to abhorr the undertaking , but the principles which animated them to it . i know very well what sheeps clothing hath been of late cast over the most barbarous cruelty of these ravening wolves ; and men by their impudence would endeavour to bear us down , that it was only a project of some few male-contents , drawn in by the subtilty of a crafty statesman in those dayes ; and that it ought not in justice or honour to be imputed to the principles of their religion . therefore to lay open before you the just and true circumstances of this horrible conspiracy , i shall proceed upon these three particulars . . that the persons engaged in it had no personal provocations to move them to it . . that all the motives they had to it were from the principles of their religion . . that the church of rome hath never since detested the principles upon which they acted ; or set any mark of infamy on the actors in it . . that the persons engaged in it had no personal provocations . what injury had catesby , or percy , or tresham , or digby received from the king or parliament , to stir them up above thousands of others to be the great managers of so hellish a plot ? did not they enjoy their estates and places , and one of them at court too ? why should these men venture lives , estates , honours , families , and all that was dear to them ? were their estates confiscated before ; and themselves every hour in danger of having their throats cut ? this might make men of high spirits grow desperate . but not the least tittle of all this was pretended , by the most enraged of them : nothing but zeal for religion and the catholick cause , was ever pleaded by them . to which purpose these are remarkable words of king iames in his speech in parliament upon the discovery . for if these conspirators , saith he , had only been bankrupt persons , or discontented upon occasion of any disgraces done them , this might have seemed to have been but a work of revenge . but for my own part , as i scarcely ever knew any of them , so cannot they alledge so much as a pretended cause of grief , and the wretch himself in hands doth confess , that there was no cause moving him or them , but meerly and only religion . and the king himself again avowed it to the whole christian world , that the papists had not before this horrible design , the least colour of any discontent from him : that he had so far suspended penalties , and abated the rigorous execution of laws against them , to such a degree , as gave great suspicion to his best subjects , who told him what would be the fruit of all his kindness to them . nay , he saith , they grew to that height of pride in confidence of his mildness , as they did directly expect , and assuredly promise to themselves liberty of conscience , and equality with his other subjects in all things : that he had shewn particular favours to many of them , gave them free access to him , eased them of their payments , set their priests at liberty , granted a general pardon to them after conviction . now after all this , what colour or pretence in the world can there be to say , that only discontent and despair brought these men to it ? o , but it might however be the cunning of a great minister of state , to draw a few gentlemen and others into such a plot. this i know is suggested and believed by some , who think it a fine thing to talk out of the common road , and to be thought more skilful in mysteries of state than other men . but i would fain understand from whence they derive this profound intelligence at such a distance of years . if king iames may be believed , if the popish historians and apologists at that time may be credited , there was not the least intimation given , either by the actors or sufferers , from abroad or at home of any such thing . was not the world sufficiently alarm'd at the news of this dangerous and unparallel'd conspiracy ? were not men very inquisitive into all the particulars ? and those of the church of rome , especially the iesuits concerned in point of honour to wipe off the stain from themselves , and to cast the odium of it on a great minister of state ? were not two of the iesuits who were conscious of the plot , preferred afterwards at rome ? and how many writings came from thence about it ? and yet not one man discovered the least suspicion of any such thing . if they go on in this way without the least shadow of proof to lay the contrivance of this plot on a professed protestant : for all that i know , by the next age , they may hope to perswade men , that it was a plot of protestants to blow up a popish king and parliament . . that they had all their motives and encouragements from the principles of their religion to undertake such a design . ( and philostratus contends , that the murder of domitian ought rather to be attributed to the doctrines of apollonius , than to the hands of stephanus and parthenius . ) for which we are to consider , that they were fully possessed with this as a principle of their religion , that it was absolutely in the popes power to deprive heretical princes of their dominions : which had been rooted in them , especially after that pius the fifth had fully declared it in his bull against queen elizabeth . in her case they made no scruple to destroy her if they could , and thought they should do it with a good conscience . and there are no villains in the world like those who are villains out of conscience . but as to the queens successor , the pope had declared nothing ; till such time as garnett being provincial of the iesuits , had received two briev's from rome , wherein he declared , that in case they should suspect the queens successor would not be true to their religion , it was lawful for them to use their endeavours to keep him from the crown . these briev's garnett shews to catesby , who took the rise of his design from hence . and when afterwards in conference garnett desired him to know the popes opinion in it , he replyed , that he needed not ask that , for if it were lawful to exclude him before he came to the crown , it was lawful to take him away when he was in possession of it . which argument was so strong , that garnett either had no mind , or was not able to answer it . all the scruple catesby had after this was , whether it were lawful to destroy the innocent and guilty together : which garnett fully resolved him in , so it were for the greater good of the church . upon these two grounds as widdrington , a roman catholick well observes , catesby laid the foundation of his whole conspiracy . after this , it 's evident by manifest proofs , and garnetts own confession under his hand , that he and other iesuits did understand the particulars of the plot ; and tesmond another iesuit and he discoursed the circumstances walking together in moor-fields ; and that not in confession , as is pretended , for the iesuit did not confess it as a fault , but advised with him about particulars , and asked him , who should be protector of the kingdom after the plot took effect ? as garnett himself confessed . but suppose it had been in confession ; why might not treason be discovered as well as heresie ? and their casuists acknowledge , that heresie may be revealed . there is only this difference , that treason is only against secular princes , but heresie against the interest of their church ; which is dearer to them than all the princes lives in the world. yea , so busie were the iesuits in encouraging this plot , that they not only debated it among themselves ; but one of them gave them the sacrament upon the oath of secrecy , and then absolved them after the discovery ; another prayed for good success , another comforted them after it was discovered by the examples of good designs that had wanted success . and must we after all this believe , that only a few discontented laicks were engaged in it , and that it was nothing at all to their church ? when the iesuits gave all the encouragement to them in it , in point of conscience : so that it was truly , as well as wittily said of one , that the iesuits double garment might well be called charity , because it covered a multitude of sins . . but if the church of rome give no encouragement to such actions ; why hath it not detested the principles upon which it was grounded ? why hath it not removed all suspicion in the minds of princes and people of giving any countenance to such treasonable designs ? but on the contrary , the same doctrines are still avowed , and the persons of the conspirators honoured . widdrington saith , that garnetts name was inserted into the english martyrology , though he gave it under his hand , that he dyed for treason , that his bones were kept for reliques , and his image set over altars , as of a holy martyr ? is this the honour of regicides and traytors in the roman church ? when in the late prosperous rebellion , the prevailing faction had proceeded to such a height of wickedness , as to take away the life of our gracious soveraign , how did the church and nation groan and grow impatient till they could vindicate the honour of our religion and countrey ! not only by an execution of justice on the persons of the regicides , but by declaring in parliament against the principles that led to it . what hath there been done like this in the court or church of rome , against the principles or actors of this gunpowder-treason ? if it had succeeded , by all that we can see , paul the fifth might have admired the providence of god in it , as much as sixtus the fifth did in the murder of henry the third of france : and we may guess his mind shrewdly by the bulls he published against the oath of allegiance , which the king was forced for his own security to impose on the papists after this conspiracy . with what scorn and contempt doth bellarmine treat the king in his writings against him , and tells him in plain terms , if he would be secure , he must give liberty to their religion ? it seems then , their principles are dangerous to princes where they have it not . what mark of dishonour was there set by their own part on any one of the conspirators ? two of the iesuits upon their arrival at rome , met with such hard usage , that one was made the popes poenitentiary , the other a confessor in s. peters at rome . and is not this the way to let the world see , how detestable such persons and practices are to their church ? to conclude all , i challenge those of the roman church to produce any one solemn declaration of that church , ( i do not say of secular powers or some particular persons , or councils rejected at rome ) whereby they make it unlawful for the pope to depose princes , or to absolve subjects from their oaths of allegiance to them . but instead of that , even in this present age of ours , that opinion which makes it unlawful , hath been condemned at rome by three several popes , paul the fifth , innocent the tenth , and alexander the seventh : and which is more considerable , all three have condemned it with a particular respect to the case of his majesties subjects ; and not meerly condemned it as a false opinion , but as wicked and contrary to faith . and is not the world grown wiser now , as to these matters ? but if they be not , i hope we may be . and after their frequent treasons and horrible conspiracies , and principles , never disowned by their church , have we not reason to entertain in suspicion of them , as to their principles of civil government , till they give sufficient security , that these pernicious principles have no influence upon them ▪ but blessed be that god , that hath hitherto defeated the malicious purposes of the inveterate enemies of our church and religion : that hath brought to light these works of darkness ; and yet continued us in the enjoyment of the benefits of this mighty deliverance to this day . may the same gracious god go on still to protect our established religion , against all forreign usurpations and domestick factions . may our love to it still increase , and our zeal for its preservation make us study the best means to preserve it ; that neither divisions among our selves , nor assaults of our common enemies may be ever able to ruine and destroy it ; that we may still say with the psalmist , blessed be the lord , who hath not given us over as a prey unto their teeth . our soul is escaped as a bird out of the snare of the fowlers ; the smare is broken and we are escaped . our help is in the name of the lord who made heaven and earth . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e matth. . , . mat. . . mat. . mat. . . acts . . mat. . . pet. . . act. . , . rom. . . cor. . . v. , . gal. . . . . eph. . . coloss. . . . heb. . . s. chrys. in . ad cor. hom . . auct . de mundo , c. . plut. de def . orac. lucian . in vit. phil. exod. . . gen. . . psalm . . themist . or. . cor. . . epiph. haer . . maim . de idol . c. . sect . . hier. in loc . tim. . . siric . ep. . c. . ep. . c. . mat. . . col. . . v. . $ v. . cor. . . cor. . . eph. . . , . v. . iren. l. . c. . eph. . . cor. . . . . cor. . . cor. . . . gal. . , , . cor. . . . rom. . , . clem. ep. p. . . tim. . , . mat. . . sacrar . privileg . s. francis. p. . gregor . de majorit . & obed. joh. . . gal. . . baron . an. . sect. . sa aphor. v. clericus . ed. colon. conc. const. sess. . concil . lat. . sess. . conc. trid. sess. . c. . v. pontific . rom. in consecr . ep. antiq. brit. a.d. . a.d. . harangue faite de la part de la chambre ecclesiastique en celle du tiers estat . sur l'article du serment . par monsig . l'eminentiss . cardinal du perron l'an. . k. iames defence of the right of kings , in the preface . rom. . . proceed . against the trait . eudaem . ioh. resp. ad ep. is. casaub. c. . p. . proceed . against the trait . becan . cont . angl. p. . history of the council of trent , l. . n. . apology for papists . reply to the answer , p. . advocate for liberty of conscience , p. . k. iames's works , p. . k. iames's works , p. . l. . vit. apol. widdringt . append . ad supplicat . p. . proceeding against the traitors . garnett's tryal . widdrington . appen . p. . psal. . , , . a defence of the discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome in answer to a book entituled, catholicks no idolators / by ed. stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a defence of the discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome in answer to a book entituled, catholicks no idolators / by ed. stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . v. ([ ], , [ ]; - p.) printed by robert white for henry mortlock ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. table of contents: p. [ ]-[ ] vol. has title: the second part of the answer to t.g., being a defence of the charge of idolatry practised in the roman church, in the worship of images. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng godden, thomas, - . -- catholicks no idolaters. catholic church -- england -- controversial literature. idolatry -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion imprimatur , g. iane r. p. d. henr. episc. lond. à sac . domesticis . june . . a defence of the discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , in answer to a book entituled , catholicks no idolaters . by ed. stillingfleet , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . the two first parts . london , printed by robert white for henry mortlock at the sign of the phoenix in st. pauls church-yard , and at the white-hart in westminster-hall . . to the right reverend father in god henry lord bishop of london , one of the lords of his majesties most honourable privy council . my lord , i have heard that in some famous prophetick pictures pretending to represent the fate of england , the chief thing observable ( in several of them ) was a mole ; a creature blind and busie , smooth and deceitful , continually working under ground , but now and then to be discerned by the disturbance it makes in the surface of the earth : which is so natural a description of a restless party among us that we need no iudge of controversies to interpret the meaning of it . our forefathers had sufficient testimony of their working under ground ; but in our age they act more visibly , and with that indefatigable industry , that they threaten ( without great care to prevent them ) the undermining of our church , and the ruine of our established religion . which since they cannot hope so easily to compass alone , they endeavour to draw in to their assistance , all such discontented parties , who are so weak , ( if any can be so ) to be prevailed on to be instruments to serve them , in pulling down a church , which can never fall , but they must be stifled in its ruins . one would think , it were hardly possible , for any to run into a snare , which lies so open to their view ; or to flatter themselves with the vain hopes of escaping better than the church they design to destroy . but such is the admirable wisdom of divine providence to order things so above all humane discretion , that when the sins of a nation have provoked god to forsake it , he suffers those to concurr in the most pernicious counsels for enslaving conscience , who pretend to the greatest zeal for the liberty of it . so that our church of england in its present condition , seems to stand as the church of corinth did of old , between two unquiet and boisterous seas ; and there are some very busie in cutting through the isthmus between them , to let in both at once upon it , supposing that no strength will be able to withstand the force of so terrible an inundation . it is a consideration that might dishearten those who are engaged in the defence of our religion against the common adversaries , to see that they promise themselves as much from the folly of some of their most seeming enemies , as from the interest and power of their friends : thus like s. paul in macedonia , we are troubled on every side , without are fightings , and within are fears . if men did but once understand the things which belong to our peace , we might yet hope to weather out the storms that threaten us , and to live , as the church hath frequently done , in a tossing condition , with waves beating on every side . but if through weakness or wilfulness , those things should be hid from our eyes , the prospect of our future condition is much more dreadful and amazing than the present can be . if it were reasonable to hope , that all men would lay aside prejudice and passion , and have greater regard to the common good , than to the interests of their several parties , they could not but see where our main strength lies , by what our enemies are most concerned to destroy ; and that no men of common understanding would make use of disunited parties to destroy one great body , unless they were sure to master them , when they had done with them ; and therefore the best way for their own security were to unite themselves with the church of england . that were a blessing too great for such a people to expect , whose sins have made our breaches so wide , that we have too great reason to fear the common enemy may enter through them ; if there be not some way found out to repair those breaches , and to build up the places which are broken down . for my own part , i cannot see , how those who could have joyned in communion with the christian church , in the time of theodosius the great , can justly refuse to do it in ours . for that is the age of the church , which our church of england since the reformation , comes the nearest to ; idolatry being then suppressed by the imperial edicts , the churches settled by law under the government of bishops , publick liturgies appointed , antiquity reverenced , schism discountenanced , learning encouraged , and some few ceremonies used , but without any of those corrupt mixtures which afterwards prevailed in the roman church . and whatever men of ill minds may suggest to the disparagement of those times , it is really an honour to our church , to suffer together with that age , when the christian church began to be firmly settled by the countenance of the civil power , and did enjoy its primitive purity without the poverty and hardships it endured before . and the bishops of that time were men of that exemplary piety , of those great abilities , of that excellent conduct and magnanimity , as set them above the contempt or reproach of any but infidels and apostates . for then lived the gregories , the basils , the chrysostoms in the eastern church ; the ambroses , and augustins in the western ; and they who can suspect these to have been enemies to the power of godliness , did never understand what it meant . it were , no doubt , the most desirable thing in our state and condition to see the piety , the zeal , the courage , the wisdom of those holy bishops revived among us in such an age which needs the conjunction of all these together . for such is the insolency and number of the open contemners of our church and religion , such is the activity of those who oppose it , and the subtilty of those who undermine it , as requires all the devotion and abilities of those great persons to defend it . and i hope that divine spirit which inflamed and acted them hath not forsaken that sacred order among us : but that it will daily raise up more who shall be able to convince dissenters , that there may be true and hearty zeal for religion among our prelates ; and those of the church of rome , that good works are most agreeable to the principles of the reformation . nay , even in this age , as bad as it is , there may be as great instances produced of real charity , and of works of publick and pious uses , as when men thought to get souls out of purgatory , or themselves into heaven by what they did . and if it were possible exactly to compare all acts of this nature which have been done ever since the reformation , with what there was done of the same kind for a much longer time immediately before it , if the protestant charity should seem to fall short in outward pomp and magnificence , it would be found much more to exceed it , in number , and usefulness . which makes me so much the more wonder to hear and see , the ill effects of the reformation in this kind , so much insisted on of late , to disprove the goodness of it . if some great men had sinister ends in it , when was there any great action of that nature , wherein some persons did not aim at their own advantage by it ? who can excuse all the courtiers in the time of constantine , or all the actions of that great emperour himself ? must christianity therefore be thought the worse , because it did prevail in his time , and very much by his means ? and there were some partial historians in those dayes , that impute the demolishing of heathen temples and the suppressing of idolatry to the rapine and sacriledge of the times . for even those heathen temples were richly endowed ; and it is not to be supposed , that when such a tree was shaking , there would be no scrambling for the fruit of it . however , we are not concerned to justifie the actions or designs of any particular persons how great soever : but that which we plead for , is , that the reformation it self was a just , pious , prudent , and necessary thing ; and had both sufficient authority to warrant it , and sufficient reason to justifie it . we read in the spanish history a remarkable precedent , which vindicates the proceeding of our reformation in england . the gotthick nation had been infected with arianism two hundred and thirteen years , when by the means of leander bishop of sevil , the king reccaredus being duly informed in the orthodox faith , called a council at toledo , wherein arianism was renounced by the declaration and subscription of the king himself , being present in council ; and afterwards by the bishops who joyned with him , and the great men ; which being done , the council proceeded to make new canons and constitutions , which the king confirmed by his edict , declaring , that if any bishop , priest , or deacon refused to observe them , he was sentenced by the council to excommunication ; if any of the higher rank of the laity , the penalty was paying half their estates to the exchequer , if others , confiscation and banishment . all which is extant in the records of that council . the arian bishops , as mariana relates , such as athalocus and sunna with others , having the old queen goswinda and several of the nobility to joyn with them , made all the disturbance they could , to hinder the reformation . but , god not only carried it through , but wonderfully preserved the life of the king , notwithstanding many conspiracies against him ; after whose death , the arian faction was very busie , and made several attempts by treason and rebellion to be restored again ; and they once thought themselves sure , when they had gotten wittericus of their party to the throne , but his short reign put an end to all their hopes . i find some of the latter spanish historians much troubled to see all done in this reformation , by the king , and the bishops , and great men , without the least mention of the popes authority . lucas tudensis therefore saith , that leander was the popes legat , but mariana confesses , that the very acts of the council contradict it . he would have it believed , that they sent legats to the pope afterwards to have the council confirmed by him ; but , he acknowledgeth , that nothing appears in history to that purpose : and if any such thing had been , it would not have been omitted in the epistles of gregory , who writ to leander a letter of congratulation for the conversion of reccaredus . but then national churches were supposed to have power enough to reform themselves , provided , that they proceeded according to the decrees of the four general councils . and this is that we maintain in behalf of the church of england , that it receives all the creeds which were then received , and hath reformed those abuses only which have crept into the church since that time. this , my lord , is the cause , which by command of my superiours , i was first engaged to defend ; among whom your lordships predecessour ( whose constant friendship and kindness i must never forget ) was one of the chief . since that time , i have had but little respite from these ( not so pleasing to me , as sometimes necessary ) polemical exercises ; and notwithstanding all the rage and malice of the adversaries of our church against me , i sit down with that contentment , that i have defended a righteous cause , and with an honest mind ; and therefore i little regard their bitterest censures and reproaches . in the midst of such a croud of adversaries , it was no unpleasant entertainment to me to see the various methods , with which they have attacked me ; some with piteous moans and outcries , others grinning and only shewing their teeth , others ranting and hectoring , others scolding and reviling ; but i must needs say , the adversary i now answer , hath shewed more art and cunning than all the rest put together ; and hath said as much in defence of their cause , as wit and subtilty could invent ( i wish i could speak as freely of his fair dealing , and ingenuity . ) him therefore i reserved to be answered by himself , after i had shaken off the lesser and more barking creatures . what i have now done , i humbly present to your lordships hands ; and i am very glad of this opportunity to declare what satisfaction the members of your own church , and the clergy of this great city have to see a person of so noble birth , so much temper and prudence , so firm an assertor of the protestant religion and church of england , appointed by his majesty to have the conduct and government of them . that god almighty would assist and direct your lordship in those things which tend to the peace and welfare of this church , is the hearty prayer of my lord , your lordships most dutiful and obedient servant , ed. stillingfleet . may . . to the reader . it hath been long expected that i should have published an answer to t. g. as the most considerable adversary that appeared against me ; but it is very well known , that before his book came out , i had undertaken the answer of several others ; which when i had set forth , a person of honour , who had been pleased to defend me against one of my keenest antagonists , was assaulted by him ; whom i was in the first place obliged in gratitude , to ease of any farther trouble . since that time i have applyed my self to the consideration of t. g.'s book , as much as health , and other business would permit . and finding such confusion in most discourses about idolatry , and that till the nature of it were fully and clearly stated , men would still dispute in the dark about these matters , in my last summers retirement , i set my self to the strict examination of it , by searching with my utmost diligence into the idolatries practised in all parts of the world , by the help of the best authors , i could meet with , either ancient or modern ; when i had done this , i compared those observations i had made with the sense of the scriptures , and of the fathers of the several ages of the christian church , who had managed the charge of idolatry against heathens , or hereticks . from hence i framed the first part of the following book , wherein i have not only examined and confuted t. g.'s false notion of it , but endeavoured to settle the true one in its place . which being dispatched , and the main principles of his whole book thereby weakned and overthrown ; i betook my self to the particular defence of the charge of idolatry practised in the roman church in the worship of images ; and i apprehended nothing of greater consequence in this debate , than to give a true account of the state of the controversie between us ; which t. g endeavoured with all his art to blind and confound . after which , i have given a distinct answer to every thing material or plausible in that part of his book . which swelling this discourse beyond my expectation , i must respite the other part to a farther opportunity ; which i may the better do , because the remainder of t. g's book hath already received a sufficient answer from a learned and worthy person . the contents . part i. a general discourse concerning the nature of idolatry . chap. i. t. g's notion of idolatry examined and confuted . page chap. ii. of the nature of divine worship . p. part ii. being a particular defence of the charge of idolatry against the church of rome in the worship of images . chap. i. the state of the controversie about the worship of images , between christians and heathens . p. chap. ii. the state of the controversie about images in the christian church . p. chap. iii. of the sense of the second commandment . p. chap. iv. an answer to t. g 's charge of contradictions , paradoxes , reproach of the second council of nice , school disputes ; and to his parallel instances . p. part i. a general discourse concerning the nature of idolatry . chap. i. t. g's notion of idolatry examined and confuted . to make good the charge of idolatry against the roman church , which is my present business , there are two things necessary to be done , . to lay down the right notion of idolatry . . to examine what t. g. and others have said , to justifie themselves , from the particulars of this charge . i begin with the consideration of the nature of idolatry , not only because my adversary calls me to it in these words , here the ax is laid to the root , and if ever the dr. will speak home to the purpose , it must be upon this point . he must speak to the nature of the thing , &c. but because the weight of the whole matter in debate depends upon it , and whosoever reads through t. g 's answer to me , will find the only strength of it to lie in a very different notion of idolatry which he sets up , which if it prove true , the main of my charge must fall to the ground ; although however by his way of writing he can hardly answer the character i had given him , either of a learned or ingenuous adversary . the notion of idolatry which t. g. lays down may be gathered from these assertions of his , that , god being the only supreme and superexcellent being above all and over all , to him therefore sovereign honour is only to be given , and to none beside him ; that as no command of god can make that to be not idolatry which is so in the nature of the thing ; so no prohibition ( if there were any ) could make that to be idolatry , which hath not in it the true and real nature of idolatry ; that , the worship of images forbidden in the commandment , is the worshipping images instead of god ; and the reason of the law was to keep the people in their duty of giving sovereign worship to god alone , by restraining them from idolatry . that this law was made particularly to forbid sovereign worship to be given ( as he saith , it was at that time given by the heathen ) to graven images , i. e. representations of imaginary beings ; or to any similitude , i. e. the likeness of any thing , which although it had a real being , yet was not god : that , the image-worship condemned by s. paul , was the worshipping images for gods , or as the images of false gods : that , evil spirits or false gods did reside in their images by magical incantation : that , the supreme god of the heathens was not the true god but a devil , and that the poets who call him the father of gods and men , were those whom horace confesseth , that they took the priviledge to dare to feign and say thing . from these assertions , it is no hard matter to form t. g 's notion of idolatry , viz. that it is , the giving the soveraign worship of god to a creature , and among the heathens to the devil . and now who dares charge the church of rome with idolatry ? i do not wonder that he calls this so foul , so extravagant , so unjust a charge ; and parallels me with no meaner a person than iulian the apostate , saying , that surely a more injurious calumny scarce ever dropt from the pen of the greatest enemy of christianity , except that of julian the apostate . but i am so used to their hard words , that i can easily pass them over , and immediately apply my self to the debate of these things , which will tend very much to the clearing the true notion of idolatry , . whether idolatry be not consistent with the acknowledgement of one supreme being ? . wherein the nature of that divine worship lies , which being given to a creature makes it idolatry ? for if those who acknowledge one supreme being , the creator and governour of the world , were notwithstanding this , guilty of idolatry , and that idolatry be , as t. g. confesseth , the giving the worship due to god to a creature ; then if we can prove , that the church of rome doth give any part of that worship which is due to god to any thing besides him , we may still justly charge them with idolatry , although they believe one supreme god , and reserve some worship which he calls sovereign to him . . whether idolatry be not consistent with the acknowledgement of one supreme being , creator , and governour of the world ? whom i suppose t. g. will not deny to be the true god. it is agreed by him , that the whole heathen world was guilty of idolatry , without excepting the more intelligent and wiser persons among them ; therefore our only business as to them is to enquire , whether they did acknowledge this supreme being ; and it is without dispute , that all christians do acknowledge the true god ; if i can then prove , that such have notwithstanding been charged with idolatry , by those whose judgement t. g. dares not refuse , i hope these two things being made out , will be sufficient to prove , that those may be guilty of idolatry , who acknowledge one supreme god. as to the heathens , who are confessed to be idolaters . i have such plenty and choice of evidence in this matter , that it is not easie to know which to leave out ; for , if either the testimony of the heathens themselves may be taken ; or the testimony of the writers of the roman church concerning them ; or the testimonie of the scriptures ; or of those fathers who disputed against their idolatry , or of the roman church it self , i do not doubt , to make it evident , that those heathens who are charged with idolatry , did acknowledge one supreme god. in so great store i have reason to consider the temper of the person i have to deal with ; for , if i produce the testimony of the heathen writers themselves , it may be he may suspect , that the devil dwelt in their books as well as in their images ; and being a very cunning sophister that he might perswade their philosophers to write for one god , that he might have the worship belonging to him : as o. c 's instruments were for a single person , that the government might be put into his hands . but , i have a better reason than this , viz. that this work is already undertaken , by a very learned person of our church . the testimony of scripture is plain enough in this matter to any unbyassed mind ; as appears by s. pauls saying to the men of athens when he saw the altar to the unknown god ; whom ye ignorantly worship , him i declare unto you ; did s. paul mean the devil by this ? did he in good earnest go abroad to preach the devil to the world ? yet he preached him whom they ignorantly worshipped , i. e. the devil , saith t. g. although s. paul immediately saith , it was the god that made the world , and all things in it : and afterwards quotes one of their poets for saying 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for we are his offspring ; and it is observable that the words immediately going before in aratus are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and he useth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 twice more in the verses before , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is the very word that t.g. saith doth signifie an arch-devil . doth s. paul then say , we are all the devils off-spring ? and not an ordinary one neither , but the very arch-devils ? was this his way of perswading the athenians to leave the worship of devils , to tell them , that they were all the devils off-spring ? no : it was far enough from him , for he infers from that saying of aratus , that they were the offspring of god , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so that if saint paul may be credited rather than t. g. their iupiter was so far from being the arch-devil , that he was the true god , blessed for evermore . and it is observable , that s. paul quotes one of their poets for this saying ; notwithstanding t. g 's sharp censure of them out of horace ; with which , the force of s. pauls testimony is overthrown . but he was not alone in making this to be the poets sense , for aristobulus the iewish philosopher produces it to the same purpose , and adds , that although he used the name of jove , yet his design was to express the true god. minucius felix saith wisely in this case , they who make jove the chief god , are only deceived in the name , but agree in the power ; so far was he from thinking their iupiter father of gods and men , ( which he applauds the poets for saying ) to have been the arch-devil . but t. g. quotes origen for saying , that the christians would undergo any torments rather than confess jupiter to be god ; for they did not believe jupiter and sabaoth to be the same , neither indeed to be any god at all , but a devil , who is delighted with the name of jupiter , an enemy to men and god. i grant , origen doth say so ; but suppose st. paul and origen contradict one another , i desire to know whom we are to follow ? yet if t. g. had considered origen as he ought to have done , he would have seen how little had been gained by this saying of his . for when celsus had said , it was no great matter whether they called the supreme god jupiter , or adonai , or sabaoth , or ammon as the aegyptians did , or pappai as the scythians . origen answers . . that he had spoken already upon this subject , which he desires may be remembered ; now in that place he saith , that by reason of the abundance of filthy and obscene fables which went of their jupiter , the christians would by no means endure to have the true god called by his name ; having learnt from plato to be scrupulous about the very names of their gods. . origen hath a particular conceit about the power of the hebrew names ; and hath a very odd discourse , unbecoming a philosopher and a christian , about the power of words in enchantments , and that the same words had great force in their originals , which they lost being translated into other languages ; and if it be thus , saith he , in other names , how much more ought we to think it so in the names of god ? and therefore he would by no means have those powerful names of adonai and sabaoth to be changed for any other . by which for all that i can see , origen would as much have scrupled calling the divine being god , as iove , if vossius his conjecture be true , that god is the same with the old german gode , or godan , and according to the common permutation of those letters , wodan , who was the chief god among the germans . . he saith , that it was no fault at all for any persons to call the supreme god by the names used in their own language ; as the aegyptians might call him ammon , and the scythians pappai : and then why not the greeks 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ? and i do not see he finds much fault with them for it ; but he would not have those names brought into the christian religion , which had been defiled by such impure stories and representations among the heathens : which is the best thing that he saith to this purpose : but we see that origen himself doth not deny that either the greeks , or aegyptians , or scythians did own a supreme god , or that they had proper names to express him by : but he would not have the christians bring those names into their religion ; and that origen grants that the heathens did acknowledge the supreme god , will be proved afterwards . but whatever his opinion was , we are sure s. paul by the god that was known among the heathens , did not mean the devil : for was the believing the devil to be the supreme god , that holding the truth in unrighteousness , which s. paul charges the heathens with ? was this indeed that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that which is known of god , which he saith , not only was manifest in them , but , that god himself had revealed it to them ? was this that eternal power and god-head which was to be seen by the things that were made , so as to leave them without excuse ? was this their knowing of god , and that incorruptible god whose glory they turned into the image of a corruptible man , & c ? was all this , nothing but iupiter of crete , and the arch-devil under his name ? but what will not men say , rather than confess themselves idolaters ? although these testimonies of scriture , be never so evident ; yet i am not sure but t. g. may be the polus mentioned in erasmus now , ( whom he mentions for my sake , more than once ) and may espy a red fiery dragon , even the old serpent there , where i can see nothing but the discovery of the true god. therefore supposing that the testimony of heathens or the scriptures may not weigh much with him , methinks he might have considered what the learned men of their own church have said to this purpose . th. aquinas confesseth , that the most of the gentiles did acknowledge one supreme god , from whom they said all those others whom they called gods did receive their being ; and that they ascribed the name of divinity to all immortal substances , chiefly by reason of their wisdom , happiness , and government . which custom of speaking , saith he , is likewise found in scripture , where either the holy angels , or men , and iudges are called gods ; i have said ye are gods , and many other places . franciscus ferrariensis in his commentaries on that place saith , that aquinas his meaning was , that the scripture only agreed with the heathens as to the name , but that they called their gods properly so , whereas the scripture speaks of them only by way of participation . and did aquinas , mean any otherwise of the heathens , when he saith , that all their inferiour gods derived their very being from the supreme ? the same aquinas , in his book purposely written against the gentiles , gives this account of their principles of religion ; that some of them held one god the first and universal principle of all things ; but withall all they gave divine worship ( latriam ) next to the supreme god to intellectual substances of a heavenly nature , which they call gods , whether they were substances separated from bodies , or the souls of the heavenly orbs and stars : in the next place to intellectual substances united to aerial bodies , which they called daemons , whom they made gods in respect of men , and thought they deserved divine worship from men as being mediatours between the gods and them ; and in the last place to the souls of good men , as being raised to a higher state than that of this present life . others of them suppossing god to be the soul of the world , did believe , that divine worship was to be given to the whole world , and the several parts of it , not for the sake of the body but the soul , which they said was god : as a wise man hath honour given him not for the sake of his body , but of his mind . others again asserted , that things below men as images , might have divine worship given to them , in as much as they did participate of a superiour nature , either from the influence of heavenly bodies , or the presence of some spirits , which images they called gods , and from thence they were called idolaters . and so he proves , that they were , who acknowledging one first principle did give divine worship to any other being : because it weakens the notion and esteem we ought to have of the supreme being to give divine worship to any other besides him ; as it would lessen the honour of a king , for any other person to have the same kind of respect shewed to him , which we express to the king : and because this divine worship is due to god on the account of creation , which is proper only to him , and because he is properly lord over us and none else besides him : and he is our great and last end ; which are all of them great and weighty reasons , why divine worship should be appropriated to god alone . but , saith he , although this opinion which makes god a separate being and the first cause of all intellectual beings , be true : yet that which makes god the soul of the world , though it be farther from truth , gives a better account of giving divine worship to created beings . for then they give that divine worship to god himself : for according to this principle , the several parts of the world in respect of god , are but as the several members of a mans body in respect of his soul. but the most unreasonable opinion , he saith , is that of animated images , because those cannot deserve more worship , than either the spirits that animate them , or the makers of them , which ought not to have divine worship given them ; besides , that by lying oracles and wicked counsels , these appear to have been evil spirits , and therefore deserve no worship of us . from hence , he saith , it appears , that because divine worship is proper only to god , as the first principle ; and none but an ill disposed rational being can excite men to the doing such unlawful things , as giving the worship proper to god to any other being , that men were drawn to idolatry by the instigation of evil spirits , which coveted divine honours to themselves : and therefore the scripture saith , they worshipped devils and not god. from which remarkable testimony we may take notice of these things . . that he confesseth many of the gentiles whom he charges with idolatry ; did believe and worship the supreme god as creator and governour of the world . . that divine worship is so proper to the true god , that whosoever gives it to any created being , though in it self of real excellency , and considered as deriving that excellency from god , is yet guilty of idolatry . . that relative latria being given to a creature , is idolatry ; for so he makes it to be , in those who supposed god to be the soul of the world . and i desire t. g. or any other cunning sophister among them to shew me why a man may not as lawfully worship any part of the world with a relative latria , supposing god to be the soul of the world , as any image , or crucifix whatsoever ? for if union , contact , or relation , be a sufficient ground for relative latria in one case , it will be in the other also ; and i cannot but wonder so great a judgement as aquinas had , should not either have made him justifie the heathens on this supposition , or condemn the christians in giving latria i. e. proper divine worship to the cross. for there is not any shadow of reason produced by him for the one , which would not held have much more for the other . for , if the honour of the image is carried to the prototype ; is not the honour of the members of the body to the mind that animates them ? if the image deserve the same worship with the person represented by it ; is not much more any part of the body capable of receiving the honour due to the person ? as the popes toe is of the worship that is given to him . why should it be more unlawful to worship god , by worshipping fire or water or the earth , or any inferiour creature , supposing god to be the soul of the world , than it is to shew reverence to the pope by kissing his toe ? which i suppose , can be upon no other reason , but because it is a part of his body , which is animated by the same soul in all the members of it . . that aquinas doth not therefore say , that the heathens worshipped devils , because the supreme god whom they worshipped was an arch-devil , as t. g. saith , but because none but evil spirits would draw men to give divine worship to any thing but god himself ; and then , that evil spirits did appear to heighten and encourage this devotion , by acting and speaking in images . the consequence of which i desire t. g. to consider . and this testimony of aquinas is the more considerable , not only for his great authority in the roman church ; and because pius . in the approbation of his works a. d. . very gravely mentions christs speaking to him from a crucifix , when he was praying before it , that he had written well concerning him ( it seems the crucifix was animated too ) ; but because i find this book so highly applauded by possevin , and others for the best account of the christian religion in opposition to heathenism . card. cajetan in his commentaries on aquinas speaking of the images of god , he distinguishes them into . sorts . . some that were to represent the divinity , which he utterly condemns . . some to set forth the appearances of god mentioned in scripture . . some by way of analogy , that by sensible things we may be brought to the veneration of insensible , as the holy ghost in the form of an old man holding a globe in his hand , which last way , saith he , comes near to the custom of the heathens who represented god diversly , as he is the cause of divers effects , as under the form of minerva by reason of his wisdom , and the like . would cajetan ever have parallel'd the custome of the church of rome , with that of the heathens , if he had thought they had only pictured the devil under these representations ? in another place he puts this question ; how it could be said that all the gods of the heathens were devils , since although they worshipped many gods , yet withal they worshipped one supreme god ? to which he answers . . that the devils were the causes of idolatry , and so they were devils causally though not essentially . . that although those they worshipped were not in themselves devils , as the heavenly intelligences ; yet they were so as they were the gods of the heathens : i. e. as they had divine worship given to them . and the true god himself , he saith , was not worshipped according to what he was , but according to what they conceived of him . but he grants before that they conceived of him , as the supreme god : which was a right conception of him ; but if he means it was imperfect , is it not so in those who worship him most truly ? martinus peresius ayala a learned bishop in spain , treating the question of the worship of images ; saith expresly , that s. augustine condemned all divine worship or latria to be given to any kind of images , not , saith he , in regard of their matter , for there was no need to give caution against that , but in regard of their representation , and he calls them idolaters which give that worship to images which is due to god ( with t. g 's leave i translate simulachra images , for so i am sure peresius understands it ) neither saith he , was s. augustine ignorant , that there were few or none among the gentiles who thought the matter of their idols so fashioned to be gods or god : ( let t. g. mark that ) but on that account he seems to condemn them , that they gave divine honour to their images , as they represented god : for there were many idols among them in which there was no devil who gave answers , but they only represented god as their benefactor : neither did all the things which the gentiles worshipped signifie a false god. for there was an altar at athens to the unknown god. ioh. ferus saith , that the intention of the heathens , was through their idols to give worship to the true god now t. g. knows that humane acts d● certainly go whither they are intended ▪ so that according to ferus , these heathens did truly worship the true god athan. kircher layes it down as a certain principle , that there never was in any age , any people so rude and barbarous which did not acknowledge and worship one supreme deity , the first principle and governour of all things . but saith he that they might teach the people that the supreme being , whom we call god , w●● present in all places , therefore they ma●● abundance of gods in all places and ov●● all things . so that as max. tyrius saith no place was left without a deity . petavius not only makes use of the arguments produced by the heathens to prove one supreme god , and thinks them considerable : but saith that s. paul demonstrates ( mark that ) that the gentile philosophers attained to the knowledge of god by the works of creation : and quotes the saying of max. tyrius with approbation , that however the several nations of the world differed from each other in customs and languages and modes of worship , yet they all agreed in this , that there was one god , lord , and father of all , and saith , that the testimony of orosius is most true , that both the philosophers and common heathens did believe one god the authour of all things , and to whom all things are referred : but that under this god they did worship many inferiour and subservient gods : and he adds that passage of s. augustin , that the heathens supposed all their gods to come at first out of one substance : but i wonder he omitted what is very observable in the same chapter , viz. that faustus the manichean holding two first principles , saith , that the christians joyned with the heathens in believing but one : and s. augustin confesseth , that the greatest part of the heathens did believe the same with the christians in that point ; but the difference , he saith , lay here , that they worshipped more gods than one : and therein the manichees agreed with them , and the christians only with the jews : but the manichees in that were worse than the heathens , that these worshipped those things for gods which were , but were not gods ; but they worshipped those things , which were so far from bein gods that they were not at all . faber faventinus , in his discourse against atheists , insists upon this as an argument of some weight to prove a deity , because all mankind had so settled a notion of one first principle in their minds from which all things come , and by which they were governed , and however they differed in other conceptions about this first principle , yet they all agreed in this , that it was immortal , and not only good in it self but the fountain of all good . which surely was no description of an arch-devil . but what need i farther insist on those authours of his own church who have yielded this ; when there are several who with approbation have undertaken the proof of this in books written purposely on this subject : such as raim . breganius , mutius pansa , livius galantes , paulus benius eugubinus , but above all augustinus steuchus eugubinus , who have made it their business to prove , that not only the being of the deity , but the unity as a first principle , the wisdom , goodness , power and providence of god , were acknowledged not meerly by the philosophers , as plato and aristotle and their followers , but by the generality of mankind . but i am afraid these books may be as hard for him to find as trigautius was , and it were well , if his principles were as hard to find too , if they discover no more learning or judgement than this , that the supreme god of the heathens was an arch-devil . but t. g. saith , that the father of gods and men among the heathens , was according to the fathers an arch-devil . is it not possible for you to entertain wild and absurd opinions your selves , but upon all occasions you must lay them at the doors of the fathers ? i have heard of a place where the people were hard put to it to provide god-fathers for their children ; at last , they resolved to choose two men that were to stand as god-fathers for all the children that were to be born in the parish ; just such a use you make of the fathers , they must christen all your brats , and how foolish soever an opinion be , if it comes from you , it must presently pass under the name of the fathers . but i shall do my endeavour to break this bad custome of yours , and since t. g. thinks me a scarce-revolted presbyterian , i shall make the right father stand for his own children . and because this is very material toward the true understanding the nature of idolatry , i shall give a full account of the sense of the fathers in this point ; and not as t. g. hath done from one single passage of a learned ( but by their own church thought heretical ) father , viz. origen , presently cry out , the fathers , the fathers . which is like a country fellow that came to a gentleman and told him he had found out a brave covie of partridges lying in such a field ; the gentleman was very much pleased with the news and presently asked him how many there were : what half a score ? no. eight ? no. six ? no. four ? no. but how many then are there ? sir , saith the country fellow , it is a covie of one . i am afraid t. g 's covie of fathers will hardly come to one at last . iustin martyr is the eldest genuine father extant who undertook to reprove the gentiles for their idolatry , and to defend the christian worship . in his paraenesis to the greeks he takes notice , how hardly the wiser gentiles thought themselves dealt with , when all the poetical fables about their gods were objected against them ( just as some of the church of rome do when we tell them of the legends of their saints , which the more ingenuous confess to be made by men , who , took a priviledge of feigning and saying any thing , as well as the heathen poets ) ; but they appealed for the principles of their religion to plato and aristotle : both whom he confesses , to have asserted one supreme god ; although they differed in their opinions about the manner of the formation of things by him . afterwards he saith , that the first authour of polytheism among them , viz. orpheus , did plainly assert one supreme god , and the making of all things by him : for which he produces many verses of his : and to the same purpose an excellent testimony of sophocles , viz. that in truth there is but one god , who made heaven and earth and sea and winds : but the folly and madness of mankind brought in the images of gods , and when they had offered sacrifices and kept solemnities to these , they thought themselves religious . he farther shews that pythagoras delivered to his disciples the unity of god , and his being the cause of all things , and the fountain of all good : that plato being warned by socrates his death durst not oppose the gods commonly worshipped , but one may guess by his writings , that his meaning as to the inferiour deities was , that they who would have them might , and they who would not might let them alone : but that himself had a right opinion concerning the true god. that , homer by his golden chain did attribute to the supreme god a power over all the rest ; and , that the rest of the deities were near as far distant from the supreme as men were : and that the supreme was he whom homer calls , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 god himself , which signifies , saith iustin , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the truely existent deity : and that in achilles his shield he makes vulcan represent the creation of the world . from these arguments he perswades the greeks to hearken to the revelation which the true and supreme god had made of himself to the world , and to worship him according to his own will. in his apologies to the roman emperours , antoninus pius and marcus aurelius , and the roman senate and people ( for so baronius shews , that which is now called the first , was truely the second , and that not only written to the senate , but to the emperour too , who at that time was marcus aurelius , as eusebius saith and photius after him ) he gives this account of the state of the controversie then so warmly managed about idolatry : that it was not whether there were one supreme god or no : or whether he ought to have divine worship given to him : but whether those whom the gentiles called gods were so or no ; and whether they or dead men did deserve any divine honour to be given to them ; and lastly , that being supposed , whether this honour ought to be given to images or no ? for every one of these iustin speaks distinctly to . as to their gods , he denies that they deserved any divine worship , because they desired it and were delighted with it ; from whence , as well as from other arguments , he proves , that they could not be true gods , but evil daemons : that those who were christians , did only worship the true god the father of all vertue and goodness ; and his son who hath instructed both men and angels , ( for it is ridiculous to think that in this place iustin should assert the worship of angels equal with the father and son , and before the holy ghost , as some great men of the church of rome have done ) and the prophetick spirit , in spirit and truth . in another place he saith , that they had no other crime to object against the christians , but that they did not worship the same gods with them ; nor offer up libations and the smoak of sacrifices to dead men ; nor crown and worship images ; that they agreed with menander , who said we ought not to worship the work of mens hands : not because devils dwelt in them , but because men were the makers of them . and he wondered they could call them gods , which they knew to be without soul , and dead , and to have no likeness to god : ( it was not then upon the account of their being animated by evil spirits , that the christians rejected this worship , for then these reasons would not have held ) all the resemblance they had , was to those evil spirits that had appeared among men ; for that was iustins opinion of the beginning of idolatry , that god had committed the government of all things under the heavens to particular angels , but these angels prevaricating by the love of women , did upon them beget daemons , that these daemons were the great corrupters of mankind ; and partly by frightful apparitions , and by instructing men in idolatrous rites did by degrees draw men to give them divine worship , the people not imagining them to be evil spirits , and so were called by such names as they liked best themselves , as neptune , pluto , &c. but the true god had no certain name given to him , for saith he , father , and god , and creator , and lord , and master , are not names , but titles arising from his works , and good deeds : and god , is not a name , but a notion engrafted in humane nature of an unexpressible being . but , that god alone , is to be worshipped , appears by this , which is the great command given to christians . thou shalt worship the lord thy god and him only shalt thou serve , with all thy heart and with all thy strength , even the lord god that made thee . where we see , the force of the argument used by iustin in behalf of the christians , lay in gods peremptory prohibition of giving divine worship to any thing but himself ; and that founded upon gods right of dominion over us by vertue of creation . in his book of the divine monarchy , he shews , that although the heathens did make great use of the poets to justifie their polytheism , yet they did give clear testimony of one supreme deity , who was the maker and governour of all things ; for which end he produces the sayings of aeschylus , sophocles , orpheus , pythagoras , philemon , menander , and euripides ; all very considerable to this purpose . in his works there is extant the resolution of several questions by a greek philosopher , and the christians reply , in which nothing can be more evident , than that it was agreed on both sides that there was one supreme god infinitely good , powerful and wise . nay the greek philosopher looks upon the ignorance of god as a thing impossible , because all men naturally agree in the knowledge of god. but there are plain evidences in that book that it is of later date than iustins time ; therefore instead of insisting any more on that , i shall give a farther proof , that in his time it could be no part of the dispute between the christians and heathens , whether there were one supreme god , that ought to be worshipped by men ; and that shall be from that very emperour to whom eusebius saith , iustin martyr did make his second apology , viz. m. aurelius antoninus . it is particularly observed of him , by the roman historians , that he had a great zeal for preserving the old roman religion : and iul. capitolinus saith , that he was so skilful in all the practices of it , that he needed not , as it was common , for one to prompt him , because he could say the prayers by heart ; and he was so confident of the protection of the gods , that he bids faustina not punish those who had conspired against him , for the gods would defend him : his zeal being pleasing to them ; and therefore baronius doth not wonder that iustin and other christians suffered martyrdom under him . but in the books which are left of his writing we may easily discover , that he firmly believed an eternal wisdom and providence which managed the world ; and , that the gods , whose veneration he commends , were looked on by him as the subservient ministers of the divine wisdom . reverence the gods , saith he ; but withal , he saith , honour that which is most excellent in the world , that which disposeth and governs all : which sometimes he calls the all-commanding reason , sometimes , the mind and soul of the world , which he expresly saith is but one . and in one place he saith , that there is but one world , and one god , and one substance , and one law , and one common reason of intelligent beings , and one truth . but the great objection against such testimonies of antoninus and others lies in this , that these only shew the particular opinions of some few men of philosophical minds ; but they do not reach to the publick and established religion among them , which seemed to make no difference between the supreme god and other deities ; from whence it follows , that they did not give to him any such worship a● belonged to him . which being the most considerable objection against the design of this present discourse , i shall here endeavour to remove it , before i produce any farther testimonies of the fathers for which we must consider , wherei● the romans did suppose the solemn and outward acts of their religion to consist , viz. in the worship appropriated 〈◊〉 their temples , or in occasional prayers and vows , or in some parts of divination , whereby they supposed god did make known his mind to them : if i can therefore prove , that the romans did in an extraordinary manner make use of all these acts of religious worship to the supreme god , it will then necessarily follow , that the controversie between the fathers and them about idolatry , could not be about the worship of one supreme god , but about giving religious worship to any else besides him . the worship performed in their temples , was the most solemn and frequent among them ; in so much that tully saith , therein the people of rome exceeded all nations in the world ; but the most solemn part of that worship was that which was performed in the capitol at rome , and in the temple of iupiter latialis in alba ; and both these , i shall prove were dedicated to the supreme god. the first capitol was built at rome by numa pompilius , and called by varro the old capitol , which stood at a good distance from the place where the foundations of the great temple were laid by tarquinius priscus , the one being about the cirque of flora , the other upon the tarpeian mountain . there is so little left of the memory of the former , that for the design of it , we are to judge by the general intention of numa as to the worship of the deity : of which plutarch gives this account ; that he forbad the romans making any image of god , either like to men or beast ; because the first being is invisible , and incorruptible , and can only be apprehended by our minds . from hence , saith he , it was that the romans , although they built temples and holy places , yet for . years had no graven or painted image of god ; accounting it a prophane thing to represent the more excellent by what was below it ; and because we cannot come near to god any other way than by our understanding . i do not deny , that numa did allow the worship of inferiour deities , as of iuno , minerva , and of deified men , as of quirinus , as dionysius halicarnassaeus saith ; but since it is plain from hence that he acknowledged a first , invisible , incomprehensible being , since he deduced the reason of divine worship from considerations proper to him , since he appointed a flamen dialis as the chief of all the rest , as livy tells us , and erected a capitol to iove , it is incredible that he should design it for any other than the supreme deity . what force was there in numa 's reason against images , if the first , and invisible being were not worshipped by him ? to what end were reasons framed against a thing never intended ? and which would not hold against the worship of deified men , unless the worship of them were supposed to be carried at last to the supreme god ? but not only plutarch attested this , but varro saith that for . years the romans worshipped their gods without images : i. e. till the new capitol were erected : which was vowed by tarquinius priscus in the sabine war ; but he was only able to prepare the place and lay the foundations ; servius tullius carried it on , tarquinius superbus was at vast charge upon it , designing , saith livy , a temple of such a capacity as might become the king of gods and men ; which was the common phrase whereby ennius , plautus and virgil did set forth the supreme deity . this magnificent temple which , according to dionysius , stood upon . foot of ground , was not finished till after the expulsion of tarquin , and was then dedicated with great solemnity by horatius pulvillus being both consul and pontifex . and from that time this was accounted the great seat of god and religion among them ; it was sede● iovis , in livy ; iovis summi arx , in ovid ; terrestre domicilium iovis , in cicero ; sedes iovis opt. max. in tacitus ; which are all as plain testimonies that this temple was designed for the supreme god among them , as can be desired ; bu● if any thing more can be added , it is only what pliny saith in his panegyrick that god was as present there as he w●● in the heavens . to this temple th● greatest resort was made especially by the magistrates on all solemn occasions hither the consuls came and made thei● vows and offered sacrifices before the● went into their provinces , on the ver● day they entred upon their office , sait● livy , for it was one of the charges again flaminius , that he went away witho●● doing it ; hither those that triumphe●● came and offered up their laurels an● laid them in the lap of iupiter o. m. here the great souldiers consecrated the●● arms , and hung up the spoils of the enemies , by which means it came to incredible riches ; here , the great scip●● was observed to be very often conversant in the night in cella iovis ; an● alexander severus never missed attending the service of the capitol , if he were in the city , every seventh day , as lampridius saith in his life ; by which we see in what extraordinary esteem the service of iupiter o. m. in the capitol was among the greatest persons in rome : from whence , lactantius saith , it was summum caput religionum suarum publicarum ; the very top of their religion ; and isidore thinks it was called capitolium , because it was romanae urbus & religionis caput summum ; so that it was not only the worship of the supreme , but a higher degree of worship than was used at any other temple in rome . if any worship can be supposed more solemn than this , it was that of iupiter latialis upon the mountain of alba , whither the roman coss. went upon the feriae latinae , and there met the ambassadours sent on purpose from the whole society of the latins ; where they all joyned together in a common sacrifice to the same iove , as dionysius , strabo , and livy relate . i con foresee but . objections against this evidence for the worship of the supreme god among the romans . . that jupiter was not worshipped alone in the capitol , but juno and minerva too . . that this jupiter was not the supreme god , but jupiter of crete . to these i answer . . i confess that iuno and minerva had their images in the capitol ; but we are to consider that it was a rule in their pontifical law , that a temple could be consecrated only to one god ; and therefore m. marcellus could not dedicate the same temple to honour and vertue , because the pontifices , saith livy , told him , unum templum , duobus numinibus non rectè dedicari . but there might be images or little cells , of other gods besides ; as t. g. knows , in a church dedicated to god or the b. virgin , there may be chappels to saints , which do not hinder the main design of the worship being to god : and so it was in this ( and many other things among the old romans ; ) as diana and the muses were in the temple of apollo ; and the graces of phidias in the temple of iupiter olympius ; but livy particularly saith , as to this temple of the capitol , that they cleared the ground as much as they could of all worships besides , ut area esset tota jovis , that it might wholly belong to iove . the only question then is , whether by this jove they meant the supreme god , or jupiter of crete ? for which we are to observe , . that the poetical fables were rejected at rome . . that the character given of jupiter by the romans can belong only to the supreme god. that the poetical fables were rejected at rome . i do not mean only that they were rejected by their wisemen as varro , seneca , and others , but by their most ancient laws about religion . marlianus mentions a table of the laws of romulus preserved in the capitol , among which this is one , deorum fabulas ne credunto . and that this was no invention of his own , appears by what dionysius halicarnassaeus at large discourseth on this subject : where he shews , that although the customes and rites of religion instituted by romulus were agreeable to the best among the greeks ; yet he utterly rejected all their fables concerning their gods ( which are indeed so many blasphemies and reproaches of them ) as wicked , unprofitable and indecent , and not becoming good men , much less those which were worshipped for gods : and that he disposed the minds of men to speak and think things worthy of that blessed nature they supposed them to have . and he particularly instances in the fables of saturn and iupiter , and the mysteries of ceres and bacchus , and the madnesses and wickedness of the greeks in celebrating their religious mysteries ; but , he saith , all things that concerned religion were said and done among the romans , with greater gravity than among the greeks or barbarians . by this he would not have any think him ignorant , that some of the greek fables might be useful to some persons , either for natural or moral philosophy or other purposes ; but upon the whole matter he did much more approve the roman theology , because the benefit of those fables was very little to any , and those very few ; but the common people who are not versed in philosophy , are apt to take these things in the worst sense , either from thence to learn to contemn their gods , or to follow their examples . i do not undertake to defend all the roman theology , nor can it be said that the romans did in all things maintain that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or decency of worship which dionysius magnifies them for , as appears by the many indecencies which the fathers charge the practice of their religion with ; but as they were not to be excused in other things , so we ought not to charge them with more than they were guilty of ; i mean when all the poetical fables of iupiter are applyed to iupiter o. m. that was worshipped in the capitol at rome . but some writers are to be excused , who having been bred up in the schools of rhetoricians , and practising that art so long before , when they came to be christians , they could not easily forbear giving a cast of their former employment . as when arnobius had been proving the natural notion of one supreme god in the minds of men , he brings in the romans answering , that if this were intended against them , it was a meer calumny , for they believed him and called him jupiter o. m. and built a most magnificent temple to him in the capitol ; which he endeavours to disprove because god is eternal , and their jupiter was born and had a father and mother and uncles and aunts , as other mortals have . which indeed was an infallible argument , that iupiter of crete could not be the supreme god ; but for all that , might not the romans call the supreme god by the name of iupiter o. m ? the question is not , whether they did wisely to make use of a name so corrupted and abused by abominable fables ; but whether under this name they meant the supreme being or no ? and they thought it a sufficient distinction of him from that infamous iupiter of the poets , that they called him optimus maximus : which lactantius confesseth , were the titles the romans alwaies gave him in their prayers ; quid horum omnium pater iupiter , qui in solenni precatione opt. max. nominatur ? which not only shews the titles they gave him , but the supplications they made to him , and the believing him to be the father of gods and men : and yet after this , lactantius rips up all the extravagancies of the poets ; as though the romans at the same time believed him to have done all those things , and to have been the supreme governour of the world , as he confesses they did . regnare in coelo iovem vulgus existimat , id & doctis pariter & indoctis per suasum est ; quod & religio ipsa & precationes , & hymni & delubra & simulacra demonstrant ; which words are a very plain testimony , that they not only believed him to be governour of the world , but that they did intend to give solemn worship to him by prayers and hymns and sacrifices . but when he immediately adds , that they confess the same jupiter to have been born of saturn and rhea ; he might have done well to have explained himself a little more , for not long after he acknowledges , that many did reject the poets in these matters , as guilty not only of lying but of sacriledge ; and besides these , the philosophers he saith , did make two ioves , the one natural , the other fabulous , i. e. in truth , they made but one , rejecting the other as a figment of the poets . but he saith , they were to blame in calling him iove ; and what then ? this is only a dispute about the name , whereas the question is , whom they understood by that name ; and some think it was the most proper name they could have used , iove being only a little varied from the name the supreme god was called by in the scripture . and lactantius himself confesses , they had the knowledge of the supreme god among them , and what other name had they to call him by ? especially when they joyned those two attributes of power and goodness , as sufficient to prevent any mistake of him . that the character given of this iupiter o. m. by the romans can belong only to the supreme god , s. augustin confesses , that they believed him , whom they worshipped in the capitol , to be the king of the gods as well as men ; and to represent this , they placed a scepter in his hand , and built his temple upon a high hill ; and that it is he of whom virgil saith , iovis omnia plena ; and the same in varro 's opinion that was worshipped by some without any image , by whom he means the iews , saith s. augustin . luc. balbus in cicero saith , by iove they understood dominatorem rerum & omnia nutu regentem , & praesentem ac praepotentem deum : which are a full description of gods infinite power and presence and government of the world . when we call iupiter opt. max. and salutaris , and hospitalis and stator , we mean , saith tully , that the safety of men depends upon his protection . and that they gave him the titles of opt. max. to express his power and goodness ; but first opt. then max. because it is a greater thing to do good , than to exercise power . you may safely , saith seneca , call god by the titles of jupiter opt. max. and tonans and stator , not from stopping the roman army , but because all things do stand by him . and you may give him what names you please , while you thereby express his divine power and efficacy , as liber parens because he is the authour of all things , hercules because of his irresistible force , mercury for his wisdom . if you had received a kindness from seneca , and you should say you owed it to annaeus , or lucius , you would not change the person but his name : for what name soever you call him by , he is the same person still ; you may use what name you please , while you mean the same thing . and lest we should think this only a philosophical subtilty in seneca , he tells us elsewhere , that their ancestors were not such fools to imagine that jove , as they worshipped him in the capitol and elsewhere , did send forth thunderbolts from his hand , ( as his image was there placed sitting in a chair of state with sometimes a scepter , sometimes a globe in one hand , and a thunderbolt in the other ) but by jove they meant the same that we do , the preserver and governour of the universe , the soul and spirit , and lord and maker of the world : which is as full a testimony as can be wished for , to our purpose . the title of iupiter omnipotens is so frequent in virgil , that it is needless to cite any places for it ; and he was particularly observed by the ancient criticks , to be so nice and exact in all matters that concerned their religion , as if he had been pontifex max. as macrobius observes : he is called in the known verses of valerius soranus produced by varro iupiter omnipotens regum rex ipse , deusque progenitor , genitrixque deum , deus unus & omnis . and this man was accounted the most learned among the romans before varro ; on which account his testimony is the more considerable . but besides the poets , we find others attributing omnipotency to their iove ; tacitus disputing what god serapis was , says , some called him iove , ut rerum omnium potentem ; whereby it appears that they looked on omnipotency as proper to him : so in the speech of young manlius in livy to geminius , when he asked him , when the roman army would come out , he said , very speedily , and iupiter would come with them , as witness of their falseness , iupiter qui plus potest polletque : which signifies no less than an almighty power . when the miraculous victory was obtained by m. antoninus over the marcomanni by the prayers of the christians ( as tertullian and apollinaris say upon good grounds , although the heathen historians attribute it to the vertue of antoninus , or to some magicians with him ) the whole army made this exclamation , saith tertullian , deo deorum & qui solus potens , whereby they did , saith he , in iovis nomine deo nostro testimonium reddere : by which it is evident they intended this honour to their own iove ; for in the whole army only the legio fulminatrix are supposed to have been christians ; and besides this upon antoninus his column at rome , baronius tells us there is still to be seen the effigies of iupiter pluvius ; destroying men and horses with thunder and lightning . dio chrysostome who lived in trajans time , saith that by jupiter whom the poets call the father of gods and men , was meant the first and greatest god , the supreme governour of the world , and king over all rational beings ; and that the world is jupiters house , or rather his city , being under his care and government ; and that in their prayers to him they called him father : which shews not only their esteem of him , but the particular worship they gave to him as supreme god. besides the worship of him in the temple , they made solemn addresses , and prayers , and vows to him on special occasions . livy mentions romulus his prayer to iove with his arms lifted up to heaven , when his army was flying , iupiter tuis jussus avibus , &c. at ●● pater deûm hominumque hinc saltem arc●● hostes ; and then makes a vow to him of building a temple in that place statori iovi : and presently he speaks to his souldiers , as if he were sure his prayers were heard , iupiter opt. max. resistere atque iterare pugnam jubet : upon which livy saith , they stopped as if they had heard a voice from heaven . dionys halicarnassaeus mentions his prayer he made when the people chose him king 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to king iupiter and the other gods : as iulius caesar when m. antony would have pu● the diadem on his head , sent it to th● capitol to the statue of iupiter o. m with this saying , solum iovem regem romanorum esse . when numa pompilius was to be inaugurated , the augur made this prayer in livy , iupiter pater , si est fas hunc numam , &c. when some were applauding the felicity of p. camillus upon the taking of veii , plutarch saith , he made this appeal to heaven , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . o mighty jove , and ye gods that behold the good and evil actions of men , &c. when manlius torquatus found annius , after his insolent speech against the romans in the senate , lying dead at the foot of the steps of the temple of iupiter capitolinus ; he cryed out , est coeleste numen , es magne iupiter ; haud frustrate patrem deum hominumque hac sede sacravimus . there is a god in heaven , thou art o mighty jove . it is not in vain that we have consecrated this temple to thee the father of gods and men. plautus affords us many instances of prayers to the supreme god ; so hanno the carthaginian in his poenulus , magne iupiter restitue certas mihi ex incertis opes : and the punick nurse cryes out at the sight of him , proh supreme iupiter ! and more fully hanno in the following scene , iupiter qui genus colis alisque hominum , per quem vivimus , vitale aevum : quem penès spes , vitaeque sunt hominum omnium : da diem hunc sospitem quaeso rebus meis agundis . and in his capteivi , iupiter supreme servas me . and again , serva iupiter supreme & me & meum gnatum mihi . it was a custome among the romans , as turnebus observes , to lift up their eyes to heaven , and by way of amplification to cry ille iupiter . so plautus in amphitryo , quod ille faciat iupiter ; and in his mostellaria , ita ille faxit iupiter : in his curculio , nec me ille sirit iupiter virgil likewise hath many prayers to the supreme god with the acknowledgement of his almighty power ; as in the prayer of anchises , iupiter omnipotens , precibus si flecteris ullis , aspice nos , hoc tantum : & si pietate meremur , da deinde auxilium pater , atque haec omina firma . and in the prayer of aeneas , iupiter omnipotens , si nondum exosus ad ununo trojanos , si quid pietas antiqua labores respicit humanos , da flammam evadere classi nunc pater , & tenues teucrûm res eripe letho . so in the prayer of ascanius , constitit ante iovem , supplex per vota precatus ; iupiter omnipotens audacibus annue coeptis . in the prayer of venus , o pater , ô hominum divúmque aeterna potestas , ( namque aliud quid sit quod jam implorare queamus ? ) which is after explained in these words tum pater omnipotens rerum cui summa potestas infit . and in the prayer of turnus , omnipotens genitor tantón me crimin● dignum duxisti ? but besides virgil ( who was so critical in the rites of religion that he would never have brought in such prayers as these , if they had not been agreeable to the roman customs ) we have the like instances in others , as in silius it●licus , — nosco te summe deorum , adsis ô firmesque tuae pater alitiomen . and in persius , magne pater divûm , saevos punire tyrannos haud aliâ ratione velis — but this was not only the custom of their poets , whom t. g. may imagine to have been as extravagant in their prayers as in their fables ( although the theatre and poets have seldom erred on the right side in religion ) , yet it will appear to have been the practice of their oratours upon solemn occasions to make a particular address to iupiter o. m. especially in the beginning ; as not only appears by pliny 's panegyrick , but by the testimony of valerius maximus , nam si prisci oratores à iove opt. max. bene orsi sunt ; and cicero quotes it as the old formula of beginning their orations , iovem ego opt. max. which himself practises in his oration pro rabirio ; but in other places reserves it for an extraordinary occasion . quo circa te capitoline iupiter , quem propter beneficia p. r. optimum , propter vim maximum nominavit ; and at the conclusion of his orations against verres , nunc te iupiter optime maxime , &c. but most emphatically pro milone , tuque ex tuo edito monte latiari sancte iupiter , &c. ( where the feriae latinae were kept . ) and a little before , where he speaks of those that seemed to question a divine power , he breaks out into those admirable words . est , est profecto illa vis , &c. and to confute servius his observation , that they only invocated jove in their exordiums , because they attributed the beginnings of things to him , we see they made their solemn addresses to iove likewise in the conclusion ; well : paterculus concludes his book , iupiter capitoline & auctor & stator romani nominus ; and pliny both in the beginning and end , to praecipuè capitoline iupiter precor , as he speaks at the conclusion of his panegyrick . but this was not only practised by orators , but by their commanders in the field , as appears by that prayer of vocula in tacitus when he was in a great streight . te iupiter opt. max quem per octingentos viginti annos , to triumphis coluimus , &c. thus we see that solemn addresses were made to the supreme god , by all sorts of person upon great ocasions : but this was no● the only way whereby they testified there devotion to him . for they erected altars to him , as in that inscription which manutius transcribed from the marble . hanc . tibi . aram. juppiter . opt. max. dico . dedico que . uti . sis . volens . propitius . mihi . collegisque meis . &c. as king antiochus in cicero dedicated his rich candlestick made with admirable workmanship of gold and jewels in these words , dare , donare , dicare , consecrare iovi opt. max. testemque ipsum iovem suae voluntatis ac religionis adhibere . in the old roman inscriptions we find several vows made to iupiter o. m. for the safety of the emperours , as in these : i. o. m. pro. salute . imp. &c. sometimes they made vows for the return of the emperours , as in those of the coss. cl. nero , and quintilius varus for augustus : ludos . votivos . pro. reditu . imp. caesaris . divi . augusti . pontificis . maximi . jovi . optimo . maximo . fecit . ex s. c. they made these inscriptions to iupiter o. m. in behalf of their emperours , because they believed them to be under his particular care , tibi cura magni caesaris fatis data , saith horace . thence in the inscriptions , juppiter . custos . domus . aug . and , numini . deorum . aug . jovi . opt. max. aedem . voto . suscepto . q. lepidus . it were endless to repeat the inscriptions that were made to him alone ; or to him under his several attributes that were peculiar to him , as deo . qui . est. maximus . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or his other titles , as consverator , custos . stator . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . or to him , where he is distinguished from the rest of the gods : as in this , i. o. m. et . consessui . deorum . dearumque . pro. salute . imperii . romani . but these are sufficient to my purpose , which was to shew , that the romans did express their devotion to the supreme god , in all their solemn acts of religion . of which there is but one part remaining , viz. in the way of enquiring into the mind of god , which they supposed was to be done by divination . and that they looked on this as a part of religion , is seen by tullies dividing their religion in sacra , & in auspicia , & in monita . thence there were three chief colledges of priests ; the pontifices , who looked after the rites of sacrificing , the augures and aruspices , who were the judges in divination . but the colledge of augures as appears by many passages in tully , had a very great esteem and authority in the common-wealth , so that nothing of moment was done without them : and the younger pliny calls it sacerdotium priscum , religiosum , sacrum & insigne : but the great reason of this seems to be , that they were sacred to iove ; thence they are said by tully , to be interpretes , internuntiique iovis opt. max. and iovis consiliarii & administri ; and the birds were said to be aves internuntiae iovis ; and they who refused to hearken to them , nolle moneri à iove ▪ so that this sort of priesthood was peculiar among them , to him whom they believed to be the supreme god. and from hence we may understand the passage in arrian , where he blames the persons that came to the augury with so much sollicitude of mind , which he calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , coming to god to know his pleasure as to particular events ; which they did , saith he , observing the augury trembling , and crying 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , lord have mercy upon me : which is so plain a form of supplication to the supreme god , that cardinal bona brings this as a particular instance of the addresses they made to him : and as the common litany of mankind . thus much i have thought necessary here , to clear not only the acknowledgement but the worship of the supreme god among the romans . i now proceed to other testimones of the fathers in their disputes against the heathen idolaters . athenagoras made an address to the same emperour m. aurelius antoninus in the behalf of the christians , wherein he doth at large assert the concurrence of the heathens with the christians in the belief of one supreme god ; and proves it from the testimonies of euripides , sophocles , philolaus , and other pythagoreans ; and from plato and aristotle , and the stoicks ; concerning whom he adds , that although they seemed to make many gods , by the several names they gave according to the difference of matter which the divine spirit did pass through , yet in truth they did assert but one god : nay he saith farther , that the generality of mankind , were agreed in this whether they would or no , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that there was but one god. but then to the question why the christians did refuse to worship images ? he gives this considerable answer ; if god and matter were but several names for the same thing , we might be charged with impiety , if we did not believe stone , and wood , and silver and gold to be gods ; and consequently give divine worship to them ; but if these are infinitely distant from each other ; as far as the clay is from the potter which forms and fashions it , why are we charged with impiety for not giving the same honour to the clay that we do to the infinitely wise framer of these things ? and if the artificer shews his skill in the vessels he makes , the honour is given to him and not to the vessels ; so it is here , the honour and glory is not to be given to the matter , but to the wise contriver , who is god himself : therefore if we look upon any of the several parts of matter as gods , we shall thereby discover how little sense we have of the true god , by making things corruptible equal to him that is eternal . but wherein could they make them equal ? not believing them to be equal in power and wisdom , for he supposed before , that one supreme god was allowed on both sides ; it could be therefore no otherwise than by giving divine honour to the creature as well as to the creator : and that not for their own sakes , for he still supposeth them to be thought the works of god ; but although it were designed to give honour to the supreme architect by falling down before any parts of matter , he thought it as senseless and unreasonable a thing , as for a man to honour an artificer by falling down before his work. it was not then we see the supposing evil spirits to dwell in images , which made the christians so peremptorily deny divine worship to them ; but because in so doing they should make the creature equal to the creator . although , saith he , the beauty , and greatness , and capacity , and figure and order of the world , deserve our admiration ; yet we ought not to worship the world but only the maker of it . as when any of your subjects make their addresses to you , would it be well taken for them to pass you by , and turn themselves to your palaces ? but men are not so foolish as to do so , but they admire the beauty and excellency of them in passing by , and pay their whole respect and service to your selves . if we look upon the world as a musical instrument , well tuned and harmoniously struck , we ought not therefore to worship the instrument , but him that makes the musick : and those who are the iudges at the musick exercises , do not crown the vial , but him that plaid upon it . if it be said , that all this proceeds upon the supposition , that the supreme god is passed by and hath no peculiar honour given to him . i answer , . the contrary appears , by what i have already said ; for they did give particular honour to the supreme deity as such . . it is unreasonable to suppose that those who believe one supreme god to be the maker of all things , should in their inward intention wholly pass him by in the worship they give to his creatures . mr. thorndike indeed saith , suposing in a man as uncorrupted opinion of the incomparable distance that indeed is found between god and the most excellent of his creatures , it is impossible for him to attribute the honour due to god alone to that which he conceiveth to be a meer creature : which would be true , if all the honour due to god , did lie only in the inward esteem of our minds ; but as card. tolet well observes , although idolatry do suppose an errour in the mind , yet that errour lies in judging that to deserve divine honour which doth not : which may be consistent with the belief of the supreme excellency of god. and i do not deny that those who acknowledge one supreme god , may have their minds so corrupted as to judge it fit to give that divine worship to a creature which is only due to the creator ; but i say , it is unreasonable to suppose that as long as they acknowledge them to be creatures , they should not give at least that relative latria to them , which t. g. saith , is carried to the creator at last . but of these things afterwards . . the reasons which athenagoras gives do equally hold , supposing the true god not to be wholly passed by : for the creatures are still at as great a distance from the creator ; which is the main reason he gives against the the worship of them . . it is possible to suppose , that those who believe a supreme excellent being may yet give him no eternal adoration at all not out of any disrespect to him , but out of the great esteem they have of his excellency ; looking upon him , as far above all our service and adoration . and that this is not a bare supposition of a thing only possible , appears by that testimony of porphyrius produced by s. cyril against iulian ; let us sacrifice , but a● becomes us , to the god over all , i. e. as a wise man said , by offering up no sensible thing to him . for every material thing is impure when compared with an immaterial : therefore the best sacrifice to god is to offer up our lives to him ( for even our words and thoughts are below him ) which is the most proper hymn to him , and the most beneficial to ourselves . and the same s. cyril observes out of dionysius halicarnasseus , that a● numa would allow no image of god in the temples , because unsuitable to his nature ; so he would not have any material sacrifices to be offered up to him on the same reason : and some of the platonists are quoted by him , saying , tha● the supreme god being incorporeal , stand in need of nothing without him ; but the other gods , especially those that are visible , ought to be pleased with inanimate sacrifices . therefore we ought not to conclude , that the heathens did not believe one supreme god , if we do not find any peculiar and external sacrifices that were offered to him ; for we see they might forbear them out of the opinion they had of his supereminent excellency . aquinas supposeth this to have been one of the principles of the heathens , that only visible sacrifices belonged to other gods , and internal acts of the mind as being better , to the supreme god ; and the supreme and invisible god's being so far above any need of our service , was the reason given by the mandarins in china , and the ynca's of peru , why they shewed so little outward reverence towards him whom they believed to be the supreme god. were these persons idolaters for the worship they did not give to the creator , or for the worship they did give to his creatures ? and it is plain by athenagoras the latter was the matter of their dispute : for they did not quarrel with the christians about the worship of the supreme god ; but for not worshipping those things they looked on as his creatures ; and if their fault only had been , that they wholly passed by the creator , this would have been no reason against the christians , who might have worshipped the creator and the creatures together , and consequently have freed themselves from the force of the laws , which required no more but giving divine worship to the deities publickly worshipped , without any declaration of their minds concerning them . for they might understand them as they pleased ; as we see the wise men among them did , without any censure or reproach from others . if it were lawful then for christians to give a relative latria to any creatures with an intention to honour god thereby , i cannot see how the christians were excusable in their sufferings ; for all that was required from them was only , to obey their laws and offer incense to their gods. nothing being expressed by the laws as to the disowning the true god , nor as to declaring in what sense they did intend to worship them ; the emperour declared , he was for the laws being observed , and himself in his own writings had expressed his mind as to one god ; what was it then made the christians refuse obeying the laws , when so many philosophers had said , that these gods were only parts of the universe , and deserved divine worship because of gods presence in them ? if they had not thought it idolatry to give divine worship to any creature , it is very hard to make out their title to martyrdom . for if we look over the acts of the martyrs , we shall find it came to this pinch with them ; will you obey the laws in offering incense , or will you not ? when iustin martyr was summoned before rusticus the praefect of the city , after some previous discourses , let us come , saith he , to the business in hand ; come you christians hither and sacrifice with one consent to the gods ; iustin answers , no true christian will forsake his religion , and return to errors and impiety : and the rest agreeing with him ; the judge pronounced their sentence , that because they would not sacrifice to the gods and obey the emperours edict , they should be scourged , and have the punishment of death inflicted upon them : which was accordingly executed . when dionysius bishop of alexandria was summoned before aemilianus , he gives this account himself of the passages between them ; that he told aemilianus plainly , that he would worship none but the true god , and that he would never depart from this resolution ; the governour dismisses him for that time ; the next time he lets him know the emperour had so great a regard to their safety , that if they would but act according to reason , and worship the gods that preserved the empire , they might be safe . dionysius answers , we , saith he , worship the one true god the maker of all things , who hath bestowed the empire on valerianus and gallienus ; and to him we pray continually for the safety of the empire . but , saith aemilianus again , who forbids you , to worship that god you speak of , and the other gods too ? dionysius then gave that as his final answer , we worship none else besides him . i might bring multitudes of instances to the same purpose , but i instance in these two , because they were men of eminency for their learning as well as piety . now i appeal to the conscience of t. g. whether upon the principles of worship which he delivers , these men could have suffered for conscience sake any otherwise than as weak brethren that wanted good information . for they might have reserved the sovereign worship due only to god , on the account of his supreme excellency , and have given only a relative latria to those whom they called gods , but in truth were only gods creatures and subjects ; and what harm was there in all this ? o , but , saith t. g. they were called gods , but in truth were devils whom they were to worship ; how doth that appear to have been the cause , when they say no such thing , and give no such reason of their refusals ? besides they might make them gods by giving them absolute latria , for that is due only to god himself ; but no more was required of them , than to sacrifice to them , and they never debarred them of the freedom of directing their intention to the supreme god ; and t. g. knows , acts go whither they are intended , and those whom they called gods , they might understand them only by way of participation , or as some analogical representations of the true god. o but sacrifice was required of them , and that is the worship peculiar to god : but how comes sacrifice alone to belong to god ? and what sacrifice ? burning of incense : and that t. g. knows , is allowed to be done to creatures with a respect to god , by the rules of their church . so that for all that i can see , if relative latria may be allowed to creatures , the primitive christians were not so wise , as they might have been ; and the modern doctrines of worship in the roman church , would have saved the lives of thousands of the primitive martyrs , and not only of the common sort but of the best , and wisest of them ; who sacrificed their lives on this principle , that , divine worship ( and not meerly sovereign worship ) is to be given to none , but to the supreme god. but if that pass for good divinity , that they who believe one supreme god , cannot possibly give the honour due to him to any creature : i do not see why the christians needed to have been so afraid of giving divine worship to any thing besides god , for upon this principle they were afraid of impossibilities : for as long as they preserved in their minds a just esteem of the incomparable excellency of god above his creatures , they were uncapable of any real idolatry . but i think it is hard to pitch upon a principle more repugnant to the sense of the primitive church than this is ; as i hope to make it clear before i have done with this argument . athenagoras proceeds to dispute against the worshipping any of the parts of the universe , how beautiful or useful soever they be ; for why should we seek that from matter which it self hath not , and can do nothing but in obedience to a higher cause ? and let the things be never so beautiful , yet they retain the nature of matter still ; for plato confesses that the heavens and the frame of the world are corporeal , and therefore subject to mutability . but , saith he , if i refuse to worship the heavens and elements as gods whose workmanship i so much admire , because i know them to be corruptible ; how can i be perswaded to do it to those things , which i know to be made by men ? and thence shews not only the novelty of the poetical gods , but of the art of framing images ; which was so late , he saith , that they were able yet to name the first makers of them . but , because it was pleaded by some among them , that all the worship they gave to their images was only a relative worship , and that they looked on them only as representations of their deities ; therefore he begs leave of the emperours , to search into the nature of their poetick theology , which he derives from orpheus , as the rest do ; and overthrows the worship of the poetical gods upon this principle , because they were not eternal , and were confessed to be at first made out of matter ; and why should we worship them which are material , and generated , and lyable to all sorts of passions , according to the poets description of them ? but , it may be , this was nothing but poetical figments , and they ought all to be understood of the natures of things , as empedocles explains them , why then , saith he , should we attribute the same honour to matter which is subject to corruption and mutation , as to the eternal , unbegotten , and immutable god ? jupiter according to the stoicks was the most active and fiery principle of matter , juno the air , neptune the water ; but they all agreed that by their deities were understood the several parts of the universe , although with different manners of explication . now , saith he , against the stoicks i thus argue , ( and here athenagoras knew , that the emperour m. aurelius would think himself particularly concerned ) if you own one supreme god , eternal and unbegotten , and all other things to be made up of matter , and the spirit of god to receive different names as it passes through the various changes of matter ; then these several kinds of matter will make up one body , whereof god is the soul , and consequently upon the general conflagration , ( which the stoicks acknowledged ) all the several names of matter will be lost by the corruptions of the kinds , and nothing will be then left but the divine spirit ; why should we therefore look on those as gods , that are lyable to such a change ? and so he proceeds to argue against the other hypotheses , as the egyptians and others , whereby all their deities were reduced to the principles of nature too , from the same principle , viz. that because these things were made and corruptible , they were not capable of receiving divine honour from us . by all which we see , that the fundamental principle which athenagoras went upon in this elaborate discourse of his to one of the wisest emperours rome ever had , was this , that nothing but the eternal god ought to receive divine worship from men ; whether they called it soveraign or relative , or what name soever they gave it ; nay , although they did acknowledge one supreme god , yet if they gave divine worship to his creatures , as the stoicks did , the christians thought it so unlawful , that they would rather die than comply with them in it . and here i appeal again to t. g 's conscience ( for since he hath shewed me the way , i hope i may follow him in it ) whether he think so wise and vertuous an emperour as antoninus was , would not have preserved the christians from suffering persecution , ( as they did very smartly in his days ) if they would have declared themselves to have understood the principles of the roman religion , after the emperours own way , viz. by believing one supreme god ; and worshipping the several parts of the universe under the names of those deities , that were commonly received : and they might have directed this worship as they had thought fit , and have disowned all the ridiculous and prophane stories of their poetical gods , as the stoicks did ; and what principle then could hinder the christians from complying with the laws but this , that they accounted it idolatry to give divine worship to any created being ? from athenagoras i proceed to clemens alexandrinus , who understood the principles of the heathen theology as well as any ; and exposes all their poetical fables and greek mysteries with as much advantage as any christian writer , in his admonition to the greeks . after he hath sufficiently derided the poetical theology and the vulgar idolatry , he comes to the philosophers who did he saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , make an idol of matter , ( the images whereof were not surely the representation of a thing not existent , as a centaur , or sphinx , and yet called an idol ) and after reckoning up thales , anaximenes , parmenides , hippasus , heraclitus and empedocles , he calls them all atheists , because with a foolish kind of wisdom they did worship matter ; and scorning to worship wood and stones did deifie the mother of them . and so runs out , after his way , into a discourse about the several nations that despised images and worshipped the several parts of the universe and the symbols of them , as the scythians , sarmatians , persians and macedonians , who , he saith , were the philosophers masters in the worship of these inferiour elements which were made to be serviceable to men . then he reckons up other philosophers that worshipped the stars , as animated beings ; others , the planets and the world , and the stoicks who said , god passed through the meanest parts of matter : yet after all this , he confesseth , that there is a certain divine influence distilled upon all men , especially on those who apply themselves to learning ; by vertue of which they are forced to acknowledge one god , incorruptible and unbegotten ; who is the only true being , and abides for ever above the highest heavens , from whence he beholds all the things that are done in heaven and earth : who , according to euripides sees all things without being visible himself . and for the proof of this , he brings the testimonies of plato , antisthenes and xenophon , who all acknowledge gods incomparable excellency , as well as unity ; and then adds the testimonies of cleanthes , and the pythagoreans ; and not contented with the philosophers he heaps the testimonies of the poets to the same purpose , as aratus , hesiod , orpheus , sophocles , menander , homer and euripides , in the fifth book of his miscellanies ( for so his stromata truely are ) he falls upon this subject again ; and then saith to the same purpose , that there is a natural knowledge of one omnipotent god , among all considering men : he grants , the stoicks opinion about god to be agreeable to the scriptures ; and shews , that thales confessed gods eternity and omnisciency ; that epicharmus attributed omnipotency to him ; and homer the creation of the world , which he described in the shield of achilles ; and then makes this observation ( as though it were purposely intended for t. g. ) he that is called both in verse and prose 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or iupiter , carries our apprehension to god , ( not to the arch devil as t. g. saith ) and therefore he is said to be all things , and to know all things , and to give and take away all things , and to be king over all : that pindar the baeotian being a pythagorean , said , there was one maker of all things whom he called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the wise artificer , and then he repeats several of the testimonies which he had produced before ; to which he adds that of xenophanes colophonius proving god to be one and incorporeal ; and of cleanthes , reproving the opinion of the vulgar about the deity ; and of euphorion , and aeschilus about iupiter , which for t. g 's better information i shall set down , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . iupiter is aether and earth and heaven and all things , and if there be any thing above all , jupiter is it ; and clemens is so far from thinking this an improper speech , that he saith it was spoken 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . with a great deal of decency and gravity concerning god. by this it appears , that they who boast so much of the fathers , are not over conversant with them : but father bellarmine , or father coccius , serves them , for a whole iury of them . but i commend t. g. for his modesty , for when he had said , this was the sense of the fathers , he produces no more but good father origen ; and he is so kind hearted to him , that though i believe he hath heard how he hath been condemned for a heretick , yet he with great judgement supposes , that what he said was the common sense of the fathers . but besides this , clemens quotes a saying of heraclitus approved by plato , wherein the only wise being is called by the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or iove . and to shew that one supreme being was received among the greeks , he cites farther an express testimony of timaeus locrus , wherein he saith , there is one unbegotten principle of all things ; for if it were begotten it were no first principle , but that out of which it were begotten would be that principle : which clemens parallels with that saying of scripture , hear , o israel , the lord thy god is one god , and him only shalt thou serve . i omit the testimonies of authors cited before , but to them he adds diphilus the comaedian , who was a little younger than menander , and lived in the time of the first ptolemy ; who speaks plainly concerning the omniscience , providence and justice of god in the verses cited out of him ; and calls god the lord of all , whose very name is dreadful : and whose words afterwards are so full of emphasis , that i cannot forbear setting them down ; ( although i beg pardon for mixing so much of a foreign language in an english discourse ) he bids those men look to it , who presume upon gods patience because he doth not at present punish them . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . look to it , you that think there is no god. there is , there is ; if any man do ill , let him think time is gain ; for certainly , suffer he shall for what he hath done amiss . but withal he quotes a saying of xenocrates chalcedonius , wherein he calls god 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the supreme iove , and another of archilochus parius a very ancient poet , ( in the olympiad saith s. cyril of alexandria ) wherein he begins 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 o iove , thy power is in heaven , and thou seest all that is done there , whether good or evil ; and menander saith , that god is in all things good : and aeschylus celebrates the mighty power of god to this purpose . think not that god is like to what thou seest ; thou knowest him not , for he is like to that which cannot be touched or seen . he makes the mountains tremble , and the sea to rage , when his commanding eye doth on them look , for the great god can do what he thinks fit : but diphilus saith yet farther , honour him alone that is the father of all good things . from all which clemens concludes , that the east and west , the north and south have one and the same anticipation concerning the government of one supreme disposer of things ; because the knowledge of his most common operations have equally reached to all ; but especially to the inquisitive philosophers of greece , who have attributed a wise providence to the invisible , and only , and most powerful , and most skilful contriver of all things . although these things might be sufficient to convince a modest man , that the gentiles who were charged with idolatry by the primitive fathers , did agree in the acknowledgement of one supreme deity , and were so thought to do , by those who managed that charge against them ; yet i shall proceed from clemens to origen his disciple : and see if the state of the controversie were altered in his time . the dispute between celsus and him did not at all depend on this , whether there were one supreme god or no , or whether soveraign worship did belong to him ; for celsus freely acknowledged both these . i know origen several times charges him with being an epicurean , but whatever his private opinion was , he owns none of the epicurean principles about religion in his book against the christians , wherein he declares himself to be both for god and providence . he calls god the universael reason , he acknowledges him to be the maker of all immortal beings , and that all things are from him , and saith , that god is common to all , good , and standing in need of nothing , and without envy : nay he calls him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the great god : and saith , that men ought to undergo any torments rather than to think or speak any thing unworthy of him , that he is at no time to be forsaken by us , neither night nor day , in publick or private , in our thoughts or actions ; but our soul ought always to be intent upon him . thus far celsus seems a good christian ; what is the matter then between origen and him , that they could not agree about divine worship , since celsus doth acknowledge the supreme excellency of god , and consequently that soveraign worship is only due to him ? why , the dispute lay in this point , celsus contended with great vehemency , that since god made use of inferiour spirits to govern the world , that those ought to have divine honours given to them , according to the customs of their several countries ; that this tended more to the honour of the supreme deity : for that devotion , saith he , is more perfect which passeth through all to him ; that it was not to be conceived that god should envy the honour of his own ministers ; but we ought rather to suppose that the great god is better pleased with it . so that all that celsus pleaded for , was either an inferiour service of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or at the utmost but a relative latria , a divine worship which was to fall after an inferiour manner upon the lower gods , but to be finally terminated upon the supreme . to this origen answers two ways . . by shewing that these inferiour deities were not good angels , but daemons , i. e. evil spirits ; which he proves many ways , but chiefly by this , that they seemed so covetous of divine worship from men . . by insisting on this as the fundamental principle of worship in the christian religion , that divine worship is to be given only to god himself ; and to his son christ iesus . this he inculcates upon all occasions ; this he lays down in the beginning of his book , that god alone is to be worshipped , all other things whether they have beings or have not , are to be passed by , and although some of them may deserve honour , yet none of them do worship or adoration : and elsewhere , that only the maker of all things ought to be worshipped , admired and adored by us , that neither the work of mens hands , nor those assumed to the honour of gods can be decently worshipped by us , either without the supreme god , ●r together with him : where the latine interpreter hath apparently shuffled , rendring that place only thus , nihilque praeter eum aut pari honore cum eo ; as though all that origen condemned were only giving equal divine worship to other things besides god. whereas celsus never pleaded for that , but that men should give 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. in the very terms of the council of trent , due veneration : to which origen answers , we desire only to be followers of christ who hath said , thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve . it is true , saith he , several nations have avoided the worship of images , some for one reason and some for another ; but the christians and iews do it because of that law , thou shalt fear the lord thy god and him only shalt thou serve , and several places to the same purpose , so that we ought rather to die than to defile our selves with these impieties . and they who did forbear images , did worship the sun or gods creatures which we are forbidden to do . this he so frequently insists upon throughout his books , that it would be to no purpose to bring all the places ; these being sufficient to shew that the state of the controversie abou● idolatry , did not depend upon their giving soveraign worship to any thing besides god , but any divine worship although they did acknowledge the supreme god. as origen himself doth very often declare , that the heathens did . s. paul , he saith , spake truly of some of the wise-men of greece , that they knew god , and that god was manifested to them ; and elsewhere , we testifie truly concerning them that they knew god ; but their fault was , that after their grave disputations they worshipped idols and daemons as the rest did . we cannot but assent , saith he , to what plato hath said concerning the chief good ; for god hath manifested this to them and whatever else they have said well : but therefore they deserved punishment , because when they had a right apprehension of god , they did not give him the worship which was worthy of him : and he quotes a little after plato 's epistle to hermias and coriscus , wherein he appeals to god as the lord of all things : and several other passages , wherein his government , and power , and iustice , and excellency are truly set forth : and after several other passages of plato and celsus about the ways of knowing god , which he allows , he concludes with this , that god is so great a lover of mankind that he made known his truth and the knowledge of himself not only to his own people , but to those who were strangers to the sincere worship and service of him . judge now reader , whether origen himself , t. g. 's single witness , doth make the supreme god of the heathens an arch-devil ; and what reason he had upon so slender a testimony to cry out , the fathers , the fathers ? but i have not yet done with him ; for if we come down lower into the times of the christian church when this controversie of idolatry was again revived in the days of iulian the apostate , we shall find the very same acknowledgements made by the most learned and judicious fathers of the christian church s. cyril of alexandria who undertook to answer the three books of iulian agains● christianity , saith , that the greeks di● speak admirable things concerning god and that they did exceed themselves in those discourses ; and that they could not have attained to such a knowledge of god without some particular manifestation of himself unto them . and afterwards h● produces the testimonies of orpheus , and homer , and sophocles concerning him thales , he saith , made god the soul of the world ; democritus , an active mind within a sphere of fire ; aristotle , a separate form resting upon the sphere of the world ; the stoicks , an active fire passing through the parts of the world . of these things , he saith , plutarch and porphyrius speak , but above all he commends what pythagoras and plato and hermes have said of god : with several of the testimonies before mentioned ; some of which are repeated by theodoret to the same purpose . but these things will be made more clear by considering the state of the controversie between iulian and s. cyrill about idolatry . iulian confesseth , that there is a natural knowledge of god in the minds of men , from whence comes that common inclination of all mankind towards a deity ; and that supposition among all men , that he who is the king over all hath his throne in heaven : he acknowledgeth with plato , that god is the maker of all things , that he is the father of the gods too ; ( and s. cyril never quarrels with him for giving the title of gods to those superiour and intelligent beings : for , saith he , we grant that there are some in heaven that are called both gods and lords ; nay men are called gods in scripture ) of these gods ' according to plato , iulian saith , some are visible , as the sun , and moon , and stars , and the heavens , but these are only images of the invisible , and therefore plato calls these later 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being invisible deities represented by visible : but one god is the maker of them all . but iulian utterly rejected the poetical fables concerning the gods , and that for t. g 's reason , because the poets took the liberty to feign and say any thing ; nay he calls them incredible and monstrous fables ; and this was the scheme of his theology , that there was one supreme god the common father and lord over all , who had distributed the several nations and cities of the world to particular gods as governours over them : but although all perfections were in the supreme god , yet they were scattered and divided among the inferiour deities : and so mars had the care of wars , and minerva of counsels , and mercury of things that required cunning more than courage : and every particular nation followed the humour of the gods that were set over them ; as he goes about to prove by the different tempers of nations . to which cyril answers . that great princes do choose some of the wisest of their subjects to be governours of provinces , but they who are so imployed do not govern them by their own laws , but by their princes , and on all occasions set forth their greatness , and pay all duties to them ; but these deities assume those honours to themselves which are due only to god ; and by bringing in images into temples of several forms and figures they endeavour to cast dishonour upon god ; and by degrees draw men to the neglect of him . either then , god despises the service of men , or these are not faithful servants to him ; by bringing in visible objects of worship by setting up images , and perswading men to make oblations , and offer sacrifices to them . and because it was so hard a matter to choke those natural motions of mens minds towards the supreme god and father of all , therefore they endeavour'd to draw men farther from him , by tempting them to all manner of impiety . whereas the good angels we read of in scripture , always directed men to pay their honours and adoration , not to themselves , but only to the supreme god : and teach men that it is not fit to give them to any of his ministers and servants : but these deities of iulian are willing to receive worship from men , and their prayers , and acknowledgements , and praises , and gifts , and sacrifices ; ( where we see he joyns them all together as parts of that divine worship which is proper only to god : ) but iulian is very much displeased at the second commandment , and would have been glad to have seen it struck out of the number of ten ( as some in the world have done ) because god therein expresses so much jealousie for his own honour ; cyril in answer to him shews that this is no way unbecoming god to be so much concerned for his honour , because mens greatest happiness , ( as alexander aphrodisiensis said in his book of providence ) lies in the due apprehension and service of god. by which we see , that the controversie about idolatry , as it was hitherto managed between christians and heathens , did suppose the belief of one supreme god in those who were charged with the practise of it . after these , it may not be amiss to consider , what the ancient author of the recognitions under clemens his name saith upon this subject of the heathen idolatry ; he lived , saith cotelerius , in the second century ; if that be true , his authority is the more considerable ; however it is certain ruffinus translated this book , and th●● makes it ancient enough to our purpose . he brings in the heathen idolaters pleading thus for themselves , we likewise acknowledge one god who is lord over all , but yet the other are gods too ; as there is but one caesar who hath many officers under him , as praefects , consuls , tribunes and other magistrates ; after the same manner we suppose , when there is but one supreme god , he hath many other inferiour gods , as so many officers under him , who are all subject to him , but yet over us . to this , he brings in s. peter answering , that he desires them to keep to their own similitude ; for as they who attribute the name of caesar to any inferiour officers , deserve to be punished ; so will those more severely , who give the name of god to any of his creatures . where the name is not to be taken alone , but as it implies the dignity and authority going along with it , and the professing of that subjection which is only due to that authority ; for what injury were it to caesar for a man only to have the name of caesar ? but the injury lies in usurping the authority under that name ; so the nature of idolatry could not lie in giving the name of gods to any creatures , but in giving that worship which that name calls for ; and yet this worship here is supposed to be consistent with the acknowledgement of the supreme excellency of god. if we now look into the sense of the writers of the latine church against the heathen idolaters , we shall find them agreeing with the other . tertullian appeals to the consciences of men for the clearest evidence of one true and supreme god ; for in the midst of all their idolatries , they are apt upon any great occasion to lift up their hands and eyes to heaven , where the only true , and great , and good god is ; and he mentions their common phrases , god gives , and god sees , and i commend you to god , and god will restore ; all which do shew the natural testimony of conscience , as to the unity and supreme excellency of god : and in his book ad scapulam , god shewed himself to be the powerful god by what he did upon their supplications to him under the name of iove . minucius felix makes use of the same arguments , and saith , they were clear arguments of their consent with the christians in the belief of one god , and makes it no great matter what name they called him by , as i have observed already , and afterwards produces many testimonies of the philosophers , almost all , he saith , that they acknowledged one god , although under several names . arnobius takes it for granted , that on both sides they were agreed , that there was one supreme god , eternal and invisible and father of all things , from whom all the heathen deities had their beginning : but all the dispute was about giving divine worship to any else besides him . lactantius saith , there was no wise man ever questioned the being of one god , who made and governed all things ; yet because he knew the world was full of fools , he goes about to prove it at large from the testimonies of poets and philosophers , as so many had done before him : and for t. g 's satisfaction , he saith , that orpheus ( although as good at feigning as any of the poets ) could not by the father of the gods mean jupiter the son of saturn ; yet who can tell , but such a magician as orpheus is said to have been , might mean an arch-devil by him ? but i am sure neither lactantius , nor any of the fathers ever thought so ; for if they had , they would not so often have produced his testimony to so little purpose . and to the greek testimonies mentioned before by others , lactantius adds those of cicero , and seneca , who calls the infeririour gods the children of the supreme , and the ministers of his kingdom . thus far we have the unanimous consent of all the writers of the christian church against the heathen idolatry , that the heathens did acknowledge one supreme god. s. augustin tells us , that varro thought , that those who worshipped one god without images , did mean the same by him that they did by their jove , but only called him by another name ; by those , s. austin saith , varro meant the iews , and he thought it no matter what name god is called by , so the same thing be meant . it is true s. augustin argues against it from the poetical fables about saturn and iuno ; but withal he confesses , that they thought it very unreasonable , for their religion to be charged with those fables which themselves disowned : and therefore at last he could not deny , that they believed themselves , that by the jove in the capitol they understood and worshipped the spirit that quickens and fills the world , of which virgil spake in those words , iovis omnia plena . but he wonders that since they acknowledged this to be the supreme if not only deity , the romans did not rather content themselves with the worship of him alone , than run about and make so many addresses to the petty and inferiour deities ? this indeed was a thing to be wondred at ; and yet no doubt , they thought they had as good reasons for it , as t. g. gives why incontinent persons should rather make their addresses to s. mary magdalen in heaven , than to her sister martha , or to god himself . so the roman women thought lucina and opis better for a good hour , than ceres or minerva ; and levana and cunina for new born children , than vulcan or apollo ; and yet s. augustin tells us , many of them did not esteem these , as any distinct deities , but only as representations of the several powers of the same god suitable to the conditions of persons : but t. g. will not say , that by s. mary magdalen , he only understood the power of gods grace in converting incontinent persons ; but if he had , he had given a much better reason of their praying to her : yet even in such a case s. austin thinks it were better to pray directly to god himself . and the old roman matrons would have thought they could have directed such persons to temples proper for them , viz. those of virtue and chastity , the one of which stood ad portam capenam , the other in vico longo . but i need not give such particular directions , for i am afraid their ruines are scarce left in rome : for neither marlianus , nor alexander donatus in their accurate descriptions of rome can tell where to find them . for our better understanding the controversie about idolatry as it is represented by s. augustin , we are to consider that not only scaevola and balbus in cicero , but varro and seneca , and the rest of their wiser men , did with great indignation reject the poetical theology as they called it ; and wished several things reformed in the popular religion ; and thought themselves as unjustly charged with the practises of the people , as t. g. doth for their church to be charged with all the ridiculous addresses that some make to saints among them ; for varro confesses that the people were too apt to follow the poets , ( as in the church of rome they are to pray by their legends ) but they thought the people were better let alone in their fopperies , than to be suffered to break loose from that subjection which their superstition kept them in ; and with these s. austin reckons the philosophers ; with whom , he saith , the question to be debated was this , whether we are bound only to worship one supreme god the maker of all things ? or whether it be not lawful to worship many gods , who are supposed to be made by him ? and after he hath discoursed against varro and those of his opinion , who reduced all their theology to nature , and made god to be the soul of the world , and the several parts of the world capable of divine worship on that account ; in his eighth book , he undertakes those who asserted one supreme deity above nature and the cause of all things , and yet pleaded for the worship of inferiour deities ; he confesses , that they had the knowledge of the true god , and brings the several places of s. paul mentioned in the entrance of this discourse to prove it : and enquiring how the philosophers came to such knowledge of him , he first propounds the common opinion of the fathers that they learnt it in egypt , meeting with the books of scripture there , but he rather ( and with good reason ) resolves it into the natural knowledge of god ; for , saith he , that which was known of god was manifest to them , for god had revealed it to them . but it seems by s. augustin , that there were two opinions among them at that time about divine worship ; for some , of whom he reckons apuleius the chief , were for the worship of daemons , although they acknowledged them to be subject to evil passions ; yet they looked on them as intercessors between men and the gods , and therefore to be worshipped ; but others who kept closer to the doctrine of plato , believed none to be gods but such as were certainly good ; but were shy of declaring their opinion against the worship of daemons for fear of displeasing the people by it : and with these s. augustin declares he would have no controversie about the name of gods , as long as they believed them to be created , immortal , good and happy not by themselves , but by adhering to god ; which , he saith , was the opinion either of all , or , at least , the best of the platonists . and now we are come to the true state of the controversie , as it is managed by s. augustin in his tenth book : which is , whether those rites of religious worship which are used in the service of the supreme god , may be likewise used toward any created being , though supposed to be of the highest excellency , and as near to god as we can suppose any creature to be ? and that this , and this only is the state of the controversie , i appeal to his own words , which i shall set down in the language he writ them , that i be not blamed with artificial turning them to my own sense : hoc est , ut apertius dicam , utrum etiam sibi an tantum deo suo , qui etiam noster est , placeat eis ut sacra faciamus , & sacrificemus ; vel aliqua nostra seu nos ipsos religionis ritibus consecremus ? i. e. that i may speak plainly , whether it be pleasing to them , viz. good spirits , that we offer divine worship and sacrifice to them ; or that we consecrate our selves , or any thing of ours to them by religious rites ? and this , saith he , is that worship which is due to the deity , which because we cannot find one convenient word in latin to express it by , i would call latria , as that service which is due to men is called by another name , viz. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : and he gives this reason why he made choice of latria to signifie divine worship in the latine tongue , because the latine word colere is so very ambiguous , it being applied to the tilling of land , inhabiting of places , and therefore cultus could not so properly be applied only to divine worship ; nor yet religiō , because that according to the custom of the latins is applyed to other senses ; and the same reason he gives as to other names . for my part , i quarrel not at all with s. augustins use of the word , and think it proper enough to apply it in his sense : which comprehends in it , not meerly sacrifice , but all those religious rites , whereby we give worship to god. and nothing can to me appear more senseless than to imagine that s. augusti●● should here speak only of soveraig● worship proper to god in regard of his supreme excellency , distinguishing that from an inferior kind of religious worship due t● created excellency , when it was agreed on both sides , that there was one suprem● excellency , which was incommunicable to any creatures , so that the dispute abou● worship must suppose those to be created and dependent beings ; which being supposed , it was impossible for them to believe they had supreme excellency in them . b●● if it be said that the dispute was , whethe● sacrifice did not belong only to god ? ● shall hereafter shew , that there is no reason in the world to appropriate divine worship only to sacrifice ; my present business is only to prove , that the controversie of idolatry did on both sides suppose one supreme god , which i think is manifest from s. augustin , if any thing can be made so . but if this be not full enough to our purpose , we may add the plain testimony of maximus madaurensis to s. austin , who saith , that none but mad-men could deny that there was one supreme and eternal god who was the great father of nature , whose influences diffused through the world , they worshipped under different names . this man seems to have been of varro 's way , and not of the platonists , for he makes god sine prole ; and so understood all the heathen deities but as several titles of the same god. in the same time with s. augustin orosius lived , who saith , that not only the philosophers found out one god the maker of all things , to whom all things ought to be referred ; but that the pagans of their times , without distinction , when they were disputed with by christians , did confess that there was but one great god , who had several ministers under him . after so full and clear evidence of the consent of all the fathers in this matter , not taken from any single or incoherent passages , but from the series and design of their discourses , i can foresee but one objection against it out of antiquity , which i shall endeavour to remove . and that is from the testimony of sanchoniathon mentioned by eusebius and s. cyrill concerning the phoenicians , that they worshipped the sun , moon and stars as the only immortal gods , among which the sun was chief , whom they called beelsamen lord of heaven ; and their mortal gods were men deified for the kindness they had done to the world . to the same purpose maimonides speaks of the zabii , whose sect , he saith , did overrun the earth , that they had no other gods but the stars . but although this take not off the force of our former evidence , which lay in this , that those fathers who did charge the heathens with idolatry , did at the same time confess , that they owned one supreme god ; yet i shall endeavour to prove , that even the eastern idolaters did acknowledge one supreme deity . gregorius abulfarajus , and sharestanius , both cited by our learned doct. pocock , do expresly contradict maimonides , for one of them saith , that they have very strong arguments to prove the unity of god ; and the other , that although they call planets gods , yet they look on them only as mediators between the supreme god and men ; and that learned and iudicious person thinks that we have more reason to believe gregorius abulfarajus , because he conversed with many of their writings in their own language , whereas maimonides only saw the translations of some of them . sharestanius makes this their great principle , that between the supreme god and us , there must be some mediators , which say they , are pure spiritual substances , which because we cannot immediately converse with , therefore we have need of some means of communication with them ; which some make to be the coelestial houses , and others images . those who are for the coelestial houses , worship the bodies of the planets as the habitations of the living , rational and intellectual substances which they suppose to animate them ; and therefore they are very punctual in the observations of them , and accordingly they make their talismans ; and if they have these about them , and the proper garments on for the planet , and the day and hour peculiar to him , and say the forms of prayer fitted for him , they do not question , but they shall be heard in the things which depend upon his influence . and these are the only persons i have heard of , that have discovered the invention of making astrological prayers ; which seem to me to be built on as good reason , as the predictions are ; and i doubt not , but they were able to produce as many experiments for the hearing of those prayers , as others do to justifie their predictions . but there were others among them , that thought the planets at too g●eat a distance , and too often out of sight , and therefore they would have more constant and visible mediators ; for which purpose they made them images , but they must be sure to be of a figure and metal , proper to the planet , with a due observation of days , hours , degrees , minutes , habits , prayers , and whatever else they knew to be most pleasing to the wise and intelligent planet . now by the help of these , they hoped to get the favour of the houses , and by the favour of the houses they hoped for that of the intelligencies , and by their favour they hoped for that of the supreme god. but it seems there were some amongst them who are called harbanistae , who supposed god to be one in essence , but to be many in regard of the different manifestations of himself to the planets and other visible beings ; and that he committed the care of this lower world to the celestial bodies whom they called fathers , the elements mothers , and all compounds children . if the former representation of their worship be true , and that they thought there was no approach to the supreme deity , but by mediators ( as it seems to be ) that might give the occasion to maimonides and others , to say , that they worshipped only the sun , moon and stars , and accounted them for their gods ; because it seems they gave no immediate worship to the supreme deity , but what honour they gave him was by passing through so many to him . and this may be a very probable reason why the sun in the phoenician and chaldean theology was looked on as the supreme deity , i. e. visible , and the highest mediator to whom any worship was offered : and therefore called by the chaldeans baal , by the phoenicians beel samen , by the ammonites moloch , by the persians mithras ; and by the moabites baal peor and chemosh : so the moon was called astaroth or astarte , and malcha , or the queen of heaven : and saturn worshipped under the name of ciun , or cevan ; the pleiades of succoth benoth : and it is not improbable , that from worshipping the host of heaven this sect of idolaters might have their name from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saba , rather than from sabius a fabulous son of seth. greg. abulfarajus describes the religion of the old arabs much after the same manner , that they all worshipped the stars , although some tribes one more than another : and it is an ingenious conjecture of doct. pocock 's , that whereas herodotus saith that the arabians only worshipped 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as it is read in the bodley mss. and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , this latter alilahat signifying daughters , implies the lesser deities , and olla taal the supreme god , as the words signifie : which he proves from sharestanius that the old arabs did acknowledge . abraham ecchellensis speaking of the religion of the old arabians , saith , that those who were of the sect of chaled , went upon this principle , that there was one creator and governor of all things , most powerful and most wise : besides these , there were those who worshipped intelligences , or celestial spirits ; and these , saith he , although they confessed one creator of the world , most holy , wise and powerful , yet they said we had need of mediators to him ; therefore they invoked those spirits with all rites of religious worship , and these , saith he , were called the daughters of god , as they are in the alcoran : not much different from these , were the worshippers of images , whom he describes as we have done before . but he tells us , there was a sect of dahritae among them whom he calls philosophers , who were meer atheists , and asserted the eternity of the world , and these being excepted , he saith , that the ancient arabs did believe the creation of the world ; and he tells out of them , their particular history of it . but ecchellensis was aware of the parallel between the worship practised in the church of rome , and that among the arabians supposing they acknowledged one true god , and therefore puts the qustion , whether they did worship their idols for gods without relation to any superiour , or only took them for second causes , and gave them the name of gods only analogically ? it was a question seasonably put , but not so wisely answered . for , as if he had quite forgotten , what he had said before , he saith , without all doubt the most of them looked upon the gods they worshipped as of supreme authority , and majesty , and independent of any other . what , although they acknowledged but one supreme god , and called all the lesser deities his daughters ! although all of them , a very few excepted , believed the creation of all things by one most wise and powerful being ! but alas ! he did not think of this question , when he said the other things ; and he was not bound to remember them now , but to say what served best for his present purpose to clear the roman church from idolatry . i will not deny then , but there might be a sect of dahritae who did only in name own any thing of god and religion , that did assert the eternity of the world , and that there were no other gods , but the sun , moon and stars , both among the phoenicians and chaldeans as well as arabians ; but i say , these were atheists and not idolaters ; those who where charged with idolatry among them were such as believed a supreme deity , but gave divine honours to beings created by him . the like is suggested by some concerning the persians , as though they attributed omnipotency and divine worship only to the sun ; and those who take all things of this nature upon trust meerly from herodotus , or iustin , or other greek and latin writers , may think they have reason to believe it ; but if we look into those who have been most conversant in the persian writings , we shall find a different account of them . iac. golius in his notes on alferganus saith , that the persians gave the names of their gods to their months and days ; according to the ancient religion of the persians and magi , whereby they did believe their gods to preside over them ; for it was a principle among them as well as other nations of the east , that the things of this lower world are administred by angels : and accordingly they had their particular prayers and devotions according to the several days and months ; and not only so , but their very meat , drink , clothing and perfumes were different ; and they had their tables or rubricks to instruct them . and what worship they gave to the planets , was not , saith he , to themselves but to those intelligencies , which they supposed to rule them ; nay , they supposed particular spirits to rule over all the material parts of the world ; the spirit over fire was called adar and aredbahist , the spirit over herbs and trees chordad , the spirit over bruits was bahmen , the spirit over the earth was asfendurmed ; and so they had an angel of night , and another of death ; and the spirit over the sun was called mihrgîan , from mihr the sun , ( whence the word mithras , ) but above all these , they believed there was one supreme god whom they called hormuz and dei ; and the persian writers say , that zoroaster appointed six great festivals in the year , in remembrance of the six days creation . and to this is very agreeable what the persees in indosthan do to this day deliver of the principles of their religion ; for , they affirm god to be the maker of all things ; but that he committed the government of the world to certain spirits ; and they worship the fire as a part of god , and call the sun and moon gods great witnesses ; and the description of them in varenius fully accords with this , that they acknowledged one supreme god , every where present , that governs the world , but he makes use of seven chief ministers for the management of it , one over men , another over bruits , another over fire as is before described ; and under these they place more , who are all to give an account to the supreme god of their administration . with this account agrees the relation of mandelslo concerning them , who saith , that the parsis believe that there is but one god preserver of the universe ; that he acts alone and immediately in all things , and that the seven servants of god , for whom they have also a great veneration , have only an inferiour administration whereof they are obliged to give account : and after the enumerating these with their particular charges , he reckons up under them with their several names , but they call them all in common geshoo , i. e. lords , and believe , he saith , that they have an absolute power over the things , whereof god hath intrusted them with the administration . whence it comes , that they make no difficulty to worship them , and to invocate them in their extremities , out of a perswasion that god will not deny them any thing they desire on their intercession . schickard relates a particular story of the persian king firutz , or perozes , which shews the acknowledgement of a supreme deity among the persians ; in his time , which was about the time of the council of chalcedon , there happened a mighty drought in persia , so that it rained not for seven years , and when the kings granaries were utterly exhausted , and there was no hope of further supplies , he called his people out into the open fields , and there in a most humble manner he besought the great god lord of heaven and earth , to send them rain , and gave not over praying till a plentiful shower fell upon them : which , saith he , is another example , after the ninivites , of gods great mercy after a publick and solemn repentance . but that this prince was yet a worshipper of the sun , appears by what follows , when the emperor zen● had him at his mercy , and made him promise fidelity to him , by bowing of himself to him ; he to avoid the reproach of it among his people , carried himself so , that he seemed only to them to make his reverence to the sun according to the custom of his country . but it will add yet more to the conviction of t. g. and to the discovery of the nature of idolatry , to shew that those nations , which are at this day charged with idolatry by the church of rome , have acknowledged one supreme god. and i shall now shew that those idolaters who have understood their own religion , have gone upon one of these three principles , either ( . ) that god hath committed the government of the world under him to some inferiour deities , which was the principle of the platonists , and of the arabians , and persians . or , ( . ) that god is the soul of the world , and therefore the parts of it deserve divine honour , which was the principle of varro and the stoicks . or , ( . ) that god is of so great perfection and excellency , that he is above our service , and therefore what external adoration we pay , ought to be to something below him : which i shall shew to have been the principle of those who have given the least external adoration to the supreme god. these things i shall make appear , by giving a brief account of the idolatry of those parts of the world , which the emissaries of the church of rome have shewed their greatest zeal in endeavouring to convert from their idolatries . there are two sects in the east-indies ( if i may call them so ) from whom the several nations which inhabit there have received what principles of religion they have ; and those are the brachmans and the chineses ; and the giving account of these two , will take in the ways of worship that are generally known among them : for the brachmans , i shall take my account chiefly from those who have been conversant among them , and had the best reason to understand their religion . francis xaverius , who went first upon that commendable imployment of converting the indians , saith , that the brachmans told him they knew very well there was but one god : and one of the learned brachmans in his discourse with him not only confessed the same , but added , that on sundays , which their teachers kept very exactly , they used only this prayer , i adore thee o god with thy grace and help for ever . tursellinus saith , that he confessed this to be one of their great mysteries , that there was one god maker of the world , who reigns in heaven and ought to be worshipped by men , and so doth iarricus . bartoli not only relates the same passages , but gives this account of their theology ; that they call the supreme god parabrama , which in their language signifies absolutely perfect , being the fountain of all things , existing from himself , and free from all composition : that he committed to brama the care of all things about religion ; to wistnow , another of his sons , the care of mens rights and relieving them in their necessities ; to a third , the power over the elements and over humane bodies : these three they represent by an image with three heads rising all out of the same trunk ; these are highly esteemed and prayed to ; for they suppose parabrama to be at perfect ease , and to have committed the care of all to them . but the brachman padmanaba gave a more particular account of the management of all things to abraham rogers who was well acquainted with him , and was fifteen years in those parts . next to brama , they make one dewendre to be the superintendent deity , who hath many more under him ; and besides these , they have particular deities , over the several parts of the world , as the persians had . they believe both good and evil spirits , and call them by several names : the former they call deütas and the other ratsjaies , and the father of both sorts to be brachman the son of brama . in particular cases , they have some , saith mr. lord ( who conversed among them and to whom mons. bernier refers us to one who gave a faithful account of them ) whom they honour as saints and make their addresses to ; as for marriage they invocate hurmount , for health vagenaught , for success in wars bimohem , for relief syer , &c. and i suppose incontinent persons may have someone instead of s. mary magdalen to pray to . the custom of their daily devotion as the brachman padmanaba said , was first to meditate of god before they rise , then after they have washed themselves they repeat names of god and touch parts of their bodies ; upon su● rising they say prayers and pour down water in honour of the sun , and then 〈◊〉 down upon their knees and worship him and after perform some ceremonies 〈◊〉 their idols , which they repeat in the evening . the particular devotion which the● have to their saints , and images , a●● reliques is fully described by boullaye-le-gouz in his late travels into those parts mandelslo saith , that in the time of the publick devotions , they have long less●● about the lives and miracles of the saints , which the bramans make use 〈◊〉 to perswade the people to worship them , intercessors with god for them . amo●● their saints ram is in very great estim●tion , being the restorer of their religi●● and a great patron of their braman kircher supposeth him to be the 〈◊〉 with him whom the iaponese call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the chinese ken kian 〈◊〉 kircher , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 kia saith marini , and those of tunquin chiaga , or as marini thic-ca , in all which parts he is in very great veneration ; him they look on as the great propagator of their religion in the eastern parts , and they say he had disciples , but he chose ten out of them , all to disperse his opinions . from whence it is supposed that the religion of the brachmans hath spread it self not only over indosthan , but camboia , tunquin , cochinchina , nay china it self , and iapan too ; where it is an usual thing for persons to drown , burn or famish themselves for the honour of xaca . this sect was brought into china years after christ from indosthan , as trigautius , ( or rather matthaeus riccius tells us , for bartoli assures us , that trigautius only published riccius his papers in his own name ) which he supposes , was brought in by a mistake for the christian religion , ( and surely it was a very great mistake ) but for all that , trigautius hath found a ●trange resemblance between the roman religion and theirs . for , saith he , they worship the trinity after a certain manner , with an image having three heads and one body ; they extol coelibate 〈◊〉 a high degree so as to seem to condemn marriage ; they forsake their families , and go up and down begging , ( i. e. the order of friers among them , ) their very rites and customs are like ours ; they have images in their temples , and their very habits agree with ours . i desire t. g. once more to make use of his friends kindness for trigautius , that he may see , whether i have translated him right or no. in all this , he mentions nothing of the christian religion , but only the rewards and punishments of another world ; which most nations of the world have believed ; and for their other resemblances much good may they do themselves with such parts of christianity . to these bartoli adds , the worshipping the mother of god with a child in her arms , their penances , monasteries , nunneries , nay their very beads and indulgencies ; and semedo saith of their priests , that they wear their head and beards shaved , they worship idols ; they marry not ; they live in convents or together , they beg , mutter prayers ; they sing ; they have several offices and prayers against fire , tempests , misfortunes , and especially for the dead ; in which functions they use sacerdotal garments ; their caps are like ours , and their sprinkling brushes without any difference at all ; they eat neither flesh , nor fish , nor eggs , neither do they drink wine . but for this last cause of fish and wine , i might have imagined he had been describing a sort of men much nearer home . the same resemblances bartoli finds , and stands amazed at in iapan ; here again , he finds one image with three heads for the trinity , and forty hands to denote his power , which they call denix ; ( but he saith , their philosophers interpret it of the sun , moon , elements and first matter , ) here they cross themselves , but with a s. andrewes cross ; and say their prayers exactly with their beads , of which they have on a string ; and which is yet more observable , they understand not one word of their prayers , and yet they hope for forgiveness of their sins for saying them . they have a kind of ave-mary bell for the times of their prayers : have pilgrimages to certain places , and have great indulgences promised them for visiting them every year : they have a tribunal of general confession ; and troops of persons who carry their images in procession , and have great honour to reliques ; especially to a tooth of xaca at meaco , which they look upon as of mighty vertue , being brought forth , either to obtain rain or fair weather : and which adds yet more cause of admiration , they have a pope too , the dairo , whom he calls zazzus , who hath the chief care of religion , and of canonizing whom he thinks fit , and thence have the honour of cami's or saints ; he consecrates patriarchs and prelates , who make priests with a power of sacrificing with odors , and of disposing the merits of xaca and amida for the benefit of the living and the dead . besides , saith he , they have multitudes of religious orders , black and grey , eremitical and coenobitical ; and nuns which are very serviceable and kind to the bonzii , who shave their heads , profess coelibate , abstain from flesh and fish , and observe their hours of devotion to xaca . these things , bartoli saith , he had from those who were eye-witnesses , and had been long conversant among them . but to increase the admiration yet more , greuber in his late account of his return from china , a. d. . by the way of lassa , or barantola , as kircher calls it , but greuber himself baranateka ( where , he saith , no christian had ever been ) yet there he found extreme unction , solemn processions , worshipping of reliques , monasteries of men and women , bare-footed missionaries , and several other things , which caused amazement in him ; but above all he wondred at their pope , to whom they give divine honours , and worship his very excrements , and put them up in golden boxes , as a most excellent remedy against all mischiefs ; and to him all the kings of tartary make their solemn addresses , and receive their crowns from him ; and those that come near him , kiss his toe , as kircher saith , and give the same adoration that they do to the pope at rome ; and , saith he , is only due to him : which he looks on , as a notable trick of the devil , to steal these customs from rome , and to carry them into such a remote part of the world , where he little dreamed of being found out in his villany , had not greuber chanced to have passed that way from china . i find these authours very much puzzled , what account to give of all these customs and ceremonies of theirs among infidels and idolaters : kircher runs back to presbyter iohn , others to s. thomas ; when alas ! they all came from the very same fountain , from whence they came into the roman church , viz. folly and superstition . and they do not want wit to defend themselves upon the very same grounds , that they do : as for instance , in their worship of images , and saints , ( as they esteem them ) as most proper to our purpose . nicolaus pimenta in his epistle to claudius aquaviva general of the iesuits from god , a. d. . saith , that when they disputed with the brachmans , about their worship , they told them ; and we likewise worship one god as well as you , and refer all the honour to him which we give to other things . i would he had told us what answer he gave them ; but i find not a word of that : neither can i see what it was capable of , unless he told them , that they lied . and we have a considerable testimony of an understanding gentleman of rome , who had the curiosity to enquire strictly into the worship the gentiles in india gave to their deities ; that they have no other name to express their deity but deu or deurù , which are likewise given to princes ; from whence he infers that the gods of the gentiles although adored and worshipped both in ancient and modern times , were never looked on in the same degree with god the creator of the universe , and wherein almost all nations of the world have and do hold him , some calling him the first cause , others the soul of the world , others perabrahmi as the gentiles at this day in india : but the other gods are and were always with them , as saints are with us : of the truth whereof i have great arguments at least among the indian gentiles ; or at the highest they esteemed them only as men deified by the favour of god , as hercules , romulus , augustus , &c. mons. bernier when he was at the university of the brachmans in benares upon ganges , discoursing with one of the most learned men among them , he proposed to him the question , about the adoration of their idols , and reproaching them with it , as a thing very unreasonable ; they gave him this remarkable answer , we have indeed in our temples store of divers statues , as those of brahma , mahadeu , genich and gavani , who are some of the chief and most perfect deutas ; and we have also many others of less perfection , to whom we pay great honour , prostrating our selves before them and presenting them flowers , rice , oyles , saffron and such things with much ceremony ; but we do not believe these statues to be brahma or bechen , &c. themselves , but only their images and representations , and we do not give them that honour but upon the account of what they represent . they are in our temples , because it is necessary for praying well , to have something before our eyes that may fix the mind ; and when we pray , it is not the statue we pray to , but he that is represented by it . for the rest we acknowledge , that 't is god that is absolute , and the only omnipotent lord and master . this , saith he , was his answer without adding or substracting any thing . and i desire to be resolved by t. g. whether upon these principles they were guilty of idolatry , or no ? i am sure their church accounts them so ; and yet they neither believe their images to be gods , nor terminate their worship upon them ; and if they be guilty upon these principles , t.g. can never clear the church of rome . but besides , they have another way of defending themselves , which the same author gives this account of , viz. that god or that soveraign being whom they call achar ( immutable ) hath produced or drawn out of his own substance , not only souls , but also whatever is material and corporeal in the universe , so that all the things in the world are but one and the same thing which is god himself ; as all numbers are but one and the same unity repeated . if this principle of theirs were true , i hope they might stand upon even terms with t. g. as to the adoration of the host. for if the belief on one side will justifie his church from idolatry , a sufficient object of adoration being supposed to be present , i hope the same supposition on their side may do it too ; so that if men can be but foolish and extravagant enough in their opinion about a thing , they need not doubt the lawfulness of the worship they pay to it . and that this is not a meer supposition not only appears by the testimony of this inquisitive person , but by what trigautius saith of the chineses , that this opinion is very prevalent among the learned men there , that makes the world and god to be one substance , of which all particular things are members ; and by what alexander valignanus , provincial of the iesuits in the indies for thirty years , hath said upon this subject . in his discourse about the best means of converting the iaponese , printed by possevine , he tells us of a sect among them , who hold but one principle , which they call the first reason , and the true opinion , and the divine truth , and that this principle is all things , and all things are nothing but it extended now and do return into it again upon their dissolution , that the soul of man is the same with it , that men by inward contemplation may now attain to a knowledge of and union with this first principle ; and as one of the iaponese converts said , after a man hath spent thirty years in this contemplation , he is then fit to be canonized , and to be worshipped among their cami's and fotoques . this first principle they grant to be one , absolutely perfect and wise , but not thoughtful , but living in perfect ease and happiness . this , saith bernier , is the great cabala of the brachmans and persians ; and if valignanus may be credited , is so of the iaponeses too : and it seems to be the very same which orpheus had from the egyptians , and contains in it the most plausible reason of giving divine worship to any thing , which is proposed for adoration . valignanus offers a great many arguments against this opinion , but i dare say not one of them stronger or plainer than those which are daily brought against transubstantiation : and yet t. g. will by no means allow any idolatry therein , because the object supposed to be present , deserves our adoration . but the generality of the people valignanus confesses did acknowledge a supreme being whom they called tento , and believed him to be the governour of the world , and to him in their great distresses they made supplications , believing that all things are well known by him ; but under him they suppose many cami's and fotoques to be , whom they acknowledge to have had a beginning , such as xaca , and amida , and canon , and toranga and many others , to whom they make their daily addresses in their temples . and the reasons which valignanus gives against this way of worship among them deserve our consideration . . because god only hath the power of conferring the blessings of this life or another upon us ; and his argument must hold as to both , or else it doth not reach home ; for the iaponeses are observed more to pray to their saints or deities for riches , and health and honour , than for what belongs to another life . . because xaca and amida and the rest of the cami and fotoque were once men , and therefore the administration of the world cannot be committed to them , being a thing above humane understanding . very well again : and if ▪ this argument signifie any thing , it must extend to their incapacity of receiving their addresses for want of divine knowledge ; otherwise they might pray to amida and xaca still , as mediators at least between god and them . . because the world was , before they had a being , and consequently was governed by that wise being which made it ; and he that disposed of things then , doth so still ; therefore it is an absurd thing to pray to and adore such beings which did not make the world . all which i grant to be reasonably , and truly said , and only desire they may be remembred against another day : and what he adds about the great affront which is offered to god , when the honour which belongs to him is given to any creatures , either dead men , or images , or devils ; and yet he makes no scruple notwithstanding the former pretences , to charge these gentiles with idolatry . it remains now , that i consider the religion of the chineses ; that i mean , which is properly theirs , and is by writers commonly called the first sect among them , and by martinius the philosophical sect. although he admires them for their morality ; yet , he saith , although anciently they did believe and worship one god , yet that now they have left off to worship him because they do not know how to do it : but greuber , who came later from thence saith , that they do profess to worship one supreme being which they call sciax-ti , and adore him by certain sacrifices of paper and incense . they worship no pagod or idol , saith semedo , but acknowledge a superiority or deity , who is able to chastise or reward : but they have no churches wherein they worship him , nor any divine service which they celebrate , nor any prayers that they rehearse , nor any priests or ministers which officiate at his service . yet they speak and write very honourably of him , neither do they attribute any undecent thing to him , as our ancestors did to their gods : but they have temples for heaven and earth in nankin and pekim , in which the king himself offers the sacrifice ; and in the cities they have temples for tutelar spirits , to which the mandarins do sacrifice ; as , to the spirits of the rivers , mountains and four parts of the world , &c. and there are temples to the honour of great benefactors to the publick , and therein are placed their images . trigautius saith , that he finds in their ancient books that the chineses did of old time worship one supreme god , whom they called king of heaven , or by another name heaven and earth : and besides him they worshipped tutelar spirits ; to the same purpose with semedo : and the same , he saith , continues still in the learned sect among them , whose first author was their famous confutius : to him they have a temple erected in every city with his image , or his name in golden letters , whither all the magistrates every new or full moon do resort , to give honour to confutius with bowings , and wax-candles , and incense : the same they do on his birth-day , and other set times ; there to express their gratitude for the mighty advantages they have had by his doctrine , but they make no prayers to him , and neither seek nor hope for any thing from him . they have likewise temples to tutelar spirits for every city and tribunal ; where they make oblations , and burn perfumes , acknowledging these to have power to reward and punish . bartoli saith , it is not out of any contempt of religion , but out of reverence to the deity because of the excellency of his majesty , that they suffer none but the king to offer sacrifice to him : and accordingly the larger power the tutelar spirits are supposed to have , the greater magistrates are to attend their service : and the lesser those of cities , and mountains , and rivers . but that which is more material to our present business , is , to consider the resolution of a case of conscience not long since given at rome by the congregation of cardinals de propagandâ fide , after advising with and the full consent of the pope obtained sept. . which resolution , and decree was printed in the press of the congregation the same year , with the popes decree annexed to it , and his peremptory command for the observation of it by all missionaries ; and that copy of the resolution i have seen , was attested by a publick notary to agree with the original decree : which case will help us very much to the right understanding the notion of idolatry according to the sense of the church of rome . the case was this ; the missionaries of the society of iesuits , having had a plentiful harvest in china , and many of the great men embracing the christian religion by their means ; the missionaries of other orders , especially the franciscans , had a great curiosity to understand the arts , which the iesuits used in prevailing with so many great persons to become christians ; and upon full enquiry , they found they gave them great liberty , as to the five precepts of the church , as they call them , viz. hearing mass , annual confession , receiving the sacrament at easter , fasting at the solemn times , and tenths and first-fruits : besides , they did forbear their ceremonies of baptism , their oyl and spittle in the ears , and salt in the mouth , when they baptized women , and giving extreme unction to them , because the jealousie of their husbands would not permit them to use them ; but that which is most to our purpose is the liberty they gave the mandarins in two things . . to go to the temple of the tutelar spirit in every city , as they are bound by vertue of their office to do twice a month , or else they forfeit their places , and there to prostrate themselves before the idol , with all the external acts of adoration that others used ; and swearing before it when they enter into their office , so they did secretly convey a crucifix among the flowers , that lay upon the altar , or hold it cunningly in their hands , and direct all their adorations to the crucifix by the inward intention of their minds . . to go to the temple of keum-fucu , or confucius , twice a year , and to perform all the solemnities there , that the rest did : and the same as to the temples of their ancestors which are erected to their honour according to the precepts of confucius ; because the chineses declared that they intended only to give the same reverence to the memory of their ancestors , which they would do to themselves if they were still living ; and what they offer to them is nothing but what they would give them , if they were alive , without any intention to beg any thing from them , when they know them to be dead : and the same allowance they gave , as to the images of their ancestors , about which many ceremonies were used by them . the missionaries of s. francis order , being well informed of the truth of these things , from the philippines they send a memorial to the king of spain concerning them , who by his ambassador represents it to the pope , whereupon the congregation of cardinals was called , and after great deliberation and advising with the pope about it , they made their decree , wherein , they by several resolutions , declare it unlawful upon any of those pretences to use acts in themselves unlawful , and superstitious , although directed by their intention to the worship of the true god. and lest any should imagine it was only matter of scandal , which they stood upon ( as t. g. doth , about worshipping towards the sun ) they make use of several expressions , on purpose to exclude this , for so they resolve the seventh quere , nullatenus licere , it is by no means lawful ; and the eighth , nullo praetextu , under no pretence whatsoever , and to the ninth expresly , that it could not be salved propter absentiam gentilium , if there were no gentiles present : from this resolution we may observe several things to our purpose . that idolatry is consistent with the belief of the supreme god , and reserving soveraign worship as due only to him : for the congregation calls the image of the tutelar spirit an idol , and consequently the act of adoration must be idolatry , yet it is very clear that the chineses ( especially the christians ) did never intend to give to the tutelar spirit the honour proper to the supreme deity : and bartoli hath at large proved , that the chineses did of old acknowledge the true god , and his providence over the world : and that their princes do worship the same god still , to whom they offer sacrifice : and they call him by two names , scianti , which signifies supreme monarch , and tienciù , lord of heaven , and as he tells us , they put an apparent difference between tienciù and tienscin , i. e. between god and angels , and say that the power of forgiving sins belongs only to god and not to them ; that , upon a debate among the missionaries about the use of these words for the true god , and some scruples raised from some misinterpretations of it by an atheistical sect among them , they were satisfied by plain and perspicuous testimonies out of their books , that they could mean no other than the true god : and that he to whom the king every year offers sacrifice is a pure mind , free from all mixture , governing all things , and therefore to him all the acts of soveraign worship are performed ; such as sacrifices , vows , prayers and thanksgivings . therefore the worship they give to the tutelar spirits or guardian angels , ( as they suppose them ) must be of an inferiour nature , and yet the congregation of the cardinals by the direction of the pope , condemn this for idolatry . that giving an inferiour worship on the account of created excellency , when it appears to be religious , is utterly unlawful among christians . for this is the only imaginable reason why the congregation did so absolutely condemn the worship of confutius and their ancestors ; and hurtado in the explication of this decree , confesses , that the chineses did not esteem confutius , as a god , but only looked on him as a holy and vertuous philosopher ; yet , saith he , because they did those acts to him which are only proper to god , they commit manifest idolatry in it . for , saith he , they who give to a creature the worship due only to god , do commit idolatry ; and from hence the gentiles who acknowledged one god were idolaters , because they gave to the creatures the honour due to him , in the doing of which they made an acknowledgement of divine excellency in the things they gave it to . by which it appears , that there are some external acts of worship so proper to god , that although a man hath never so clear apprehension in his mind of the supreme excellency of god above the creatures he worships , yet the giving that worship to them makes his act idolatry . the iesuits to excuse these things , speak very high things of confutius , and of his admirable life and doctrine , and surely not without great reason , if their relations hold true , as i see no reason to suspect them : but the more confutius is extolled , the worse they make their own case , for all these acts of external worship towards him , are condemned for idolatry : and how then comes the worship of ignatius loyola to be otherwise , who , i dare say , never was so great a philosopher , nor did so much good in the world , as the iesuits say confutius did ? but at last , they would have all these honours to confutius to be only civil honours ; although trigautius confesses , that he hath a temple in every city , that his image with that of his disciples , is set up in it ; that these disciples are looked on as a sort of divi , i. e. as canonized saints ; that bere they make use of all the rites of adoration , genuflections , wax-candles , incense , oblations , prayers only excepted : but we see , notwithstanding all their pretences , the pope and congregation of cardinals have condemned them as guilty of idolatry . that the pope and congregation of cardinals were not of t. g 's mind , that acts do certainly go whither they are intended ; for all these acts of worship were directed by the intention of the persons to the secret crucifix , which lay among the flowers upon the altar ; but notwithstanding , this in their opinion were a fit object of worship , yet other circumstances did so much alter the nature of it , that they declare these acts to be in themselves unlawful . by actions going whither they are intended , i do not mean , as t. g. suggests , that the physical act of the mind doth not pass to the object whither the act is directed , i. e. that i do not think of that which i do think of ; but my meaning is , that such a directing the intention of the mind doth not give a moral denomination to the nature of the action , viz. that it becomes lawful or unlawful , by vertue of such an intention of the mind , but that the law of god may so determine the nature of our acts of worship , as to make them unlawful , whatever the intention of the mind be . and thus the congregation of cardinals here resolves the case ; the persons used only those acts of adoration that may be directed to god , by a secret intention of the mind ; they suppose a crucifix a fit object for divine worship , and going together into an idolatrous temple , and using all the external equivocal acts ( as t. g. calls them ) which the rest did , they direct their acts by vertue of this intention to the crucifix ; yet although the congregation thought this intention rightly directed , they condemn the acts as in themselves unlawful . but of these things hereafter ; the first observation being sufficient to my present purpose , viz. to shew that according to the present sense of the roman church the practice of idolatry is consistent with the acknowledgement of one supreme god. from the idolatry of the east-indies , i proceed to that of the tartars , whose dominion hath extended it self over that vast continent from the utmost north-east parts , to the borders of europe that way ; and this acount i shall give from the least suspected witnesses in this matter , viz. the emissaries of the roman church , who had conversed most among them , and made it their design to understand their religion . in a. d. . after the horrible devastations made by the tartars in poland and hungary , pope innocent . sent iohannes de plano carpini as his legat , or nuncio to them : and after a year and four months stay among them he gives this account of their religion , unum deum credunt , quem credunt esse factorem omnium visibilium , & invisibilium ; & credunt eum tam bonorum in hoc mundo quam poenarum esse factorem ; non tamen orationibus , vel laudibus aut ritu aliquo ipsum colunt . they believe one god , whom they believe to be the maker of all things visible and invisible ; and to be the author of all worldly goods and punishments ; and yet he saith , they had no manner of worhip of him : but their worship they gave to images , which he there at large decribes . but there is an inferior deity , whom he calls itoga , paulus venetus natagay which they believe to be the god of the earth , and him they worship with great superstition ; and besides they worship the sun , moon and fire , and make oblations to the image of their first emperour ; and the same thing is affirmed by vincentius bellovacensis . after him , lewis the ninth of france sent william de rubruquis , a franciscan , a. d. . who passed through the several courts of the tartarian princes , and gave an exact account to his prince of the religion he found among them . in the conference he had with mangu-chan ( who was then emperour ) about religion ; the emperour told him , we moals ( which is the name they call themselves by , that being the name of the tribe from whence iingiz-chan came , the tartars being another tribe , but better known to the europeans , ) we , ( saith he , ) believe that that there is but one god , through whom we live and die ; and we have an upright heart towards him : and he added , that as god had given to the hand five fingers , so he hath given many ways to men . but there was a sect of idolaters among them , whom he calls tuinians , who held two first principles , and many gods ; but it seems by their discourse , that they acknowledged the superiority of one above all the rest . for when the frier said there was but one god ; the tuinian who disputed with him before mangu-chan , said , fools say there is but one god , but wisemen day there are many ; are there not great lords in your country ? and here is a greater lord mangu-chan . so is it of the gods , because in divers countries there are divers . and afterwards he acknowledged , that there is one highest god in the heavens , whose generation we know not yet , and ten are under him , and under them there is one inferiour : and in the earth there are infinite . and of another sect , called iugurs , he confesses , that they believe on god , and yet make idols ; from whom the tartars had their letters ; and he affirms the same of the moals or tartars in general , and yet they make and worship many images : and their priests pray by their beads , having a string with a hundred or two of nutshels upon it ; and the repeating of certain words with them , they account meritorious at gods hand . haithon , the armenian , agrees with the former , saying of the tartars , that they confess one immortal god. gregorius abul-pharajius brings several examples of iingiz-chans acknowledging one supreme and omnipotent god , ( who laid the foundation of the tartarian empire ) as , when he made his prayers to him upon the injury of gayer-chan : when he owned his power to be given him from the god that is king over all and omnipotent ; and therefore , haithon makes that the first command of jingiz-chan to his followers , that they ought to believe and obey the immortal god , by whom he obtained his empire . and that the tartars , who have not embraced mohometism , did still acknowledge and worship one supreme god maker of heaven and earth , is confessed by iacobus navarchus among the indian epistles ; and the same , nicephorus callistus affirms , of the ancient turks , who were a race of tartars living beyond the bactrian mountains . the like might be easily discovered of the most considerable nations of the west-indies , if it would not have swelled this discourse into too great a bulk ; in general we take this remarkable testimony of iosephus acosta , a learned spanish iesuit , who lived seventeen years in those parts . they , ( saith he , speaking of the indians ) do commonly acknowledge a supreme lord and author of all things , which they of peru call viracocha , and gave him names of great excellence , as pachacamac , or pachaiackachic , which is the creator of heaven and earth , and usapu which is admirable , and such like . him they did worship as the chiefest of all , whom they did honour in beholding the heaven . the like we see amongst them of mexico , and china , and all other infidels . which accordeth well with what is said by s. paul in the acts of the apostles , where he did see the inscription of an altar ignota deo , to the unknown god : whereupon the apostle took occasion to preach unto them , saying , him whom you worship without knowing him , do i preach unto you . in like sort those which at this day do preach the gospel to the indians , find no great difficulty to perswade them that there is a high god and lord over all , and that this is the christians god , and the true god. as it is therefore a truth conformable to reason , that there is a soveraign lord and king of heaven , whom the gentiles with all their infidelities and idolatries have not denied , as we see in the philosophy of timaeus in plat. in the metaphysicks of aristotle , and in the asclepius of trismegist , as also in the poesies of homer and virgil : so the preachers of the gospel have no great difficulty to plant and perswade this truth of a supreme god , be the nations to whom they preach never so barbarous , and bruitish . but it is hard to root out of their minds that there is no other god , nor any other deity than one : and that all other things of themselves have no power , being , nor working proper to themselves , but what this great and only lord doth give and impart to them . to conclude , it is necessary to perswade them by all means , in reproving their errours , as well in that wherein they generally fail , in worshipping more than one god , as in particular , which is much more to hold for gods , and to demand favours and help of those things which are not gods , nor have any power , but what the true god their lord and creator hath given . and in another place he saith , hoc enim commune apud omnes pene barbaros est , ut deum quidem omnium rerum supremum & summe bonum fateantur . this is common among almost all the barbarous nations , to acknowledge one supreme god , infinitely good . but there is so pregnant a testimony concerning the acknowledgement of a supreme deity among the yncas of peru , that it ought not to be slightly passed over . the thing it self is confessed not only by acosta , but by eusebius nierembergius , augustinus de zarate , antonius de calancha who was himself a peruan born , and afterwards an augustinian : and these two mention the conference between atahuallpa the last of the yncas , and vincentius de valverde , about religion , wherein , the ynca told the spanish priest , that they believed in pachacamac the creator of the world , and after him they worshipped the sun and moon for their universal influence on the world. but the most perfect account of their way of worship is delivered by garcilasso de la vega , who was himself of the blood of yncas by the mother , and he corrects several mistakes of acosta and other spanish authors , which were occasioned by their ignorance of the peruvian language and customs . he saith , that manco capac , ( who was the founder of the empire of the yncas , ) did reduce the barbarous indians from the promiscuous idolatry of almost all sorts of creatures before , to the worship of the sun , as the great instrument of pachacamac in the government of the world ; but although they had a great veneration for the moon , as wife and sister of the sun , yet he cannot find that they did ever worship her as a goddess ; or offer sacrifices , and build temples to her . thunder and lightning they called , the executioners of the iustice of the sun ; and did not look on them as deities , as the spaniards imagined . but the main thing he discovers as to their religion is , that they had only two deities , the one visible , the sun ; the other invisible , the creator of the world , whom they called pachacamac , from pacha which signifies the world , and camac from the verb camar to enliven , and that from cama the soul ; so that pachacamac is as much as , the soul of the world : which word they had in so great veneration that they durst not pronounce it but with a great deal of ceremonie , and with the most humble posture of adoration : which was the external soveraign worship which they gave to the supreme deity , and above what they gave to the sun , whose name they did usually pronounce : from whence he infers , that although the external worship of sacrifices was performed to the sun , yet they had in their soul a greater adoration to pachacamac , as an invisible deity , that gave being and life to the world. he saith , that without all question the yncas and their amautas or philosophers , did intend no other by this word , but the true soveraign creator of the world ; however the spaniards thought some devil was understood by it : but , saith he , the indians when they meant the devil they called him cupay ; and at the naming him did spit on the ground in token of execration ; but when they mentioned pachacamac , they did it with all the reverence and devotion imaginable . and withall he adds , that whatever acosta and others say , this is the proper name for god in the peruvian language ; and they do not know how to express him otherwise ; and that all other names given by the spaniards , as tici viracocha , pachaia chacher , pacharurac , do not set forth the unexpressible majesty of god in their tongue , as pachacamac doth . he tells us , that it was an inviolable law of the yncas , throughout their empire , that divine worship should be given only to pachacamac as the soveraign deity , and to the sun for the great benefit the world received by him : and that it was held a very reproachful thing among them to attribute the name , honour , authority , power of god or any other divine perfections to any sublunary things : but they had an inferiour reverence for the moon as wife and sister of the sun , and for the stars , which they called her daughters and servants of her house ; and so they had for their yncas too , whose bodies were set up in the temple of the sun in cozco , on either side his golden image ; and in the chappel of the moon were the bodies of the empresses after the same manner : in which he observes , that the yncas were wont to make their vows to the moon , and recommend themselves to her as their mother ; but they offered no sacrifices to her , as they did to the sun. they have likewise great respect for the stars , and especially for the planet venus , which they call the page of the sun ; as they have for the thunder , and lightning , and thunderbolt , which he saith again , they did not hold to be gods , but to be his domestick servants ; which the spaniards , because they represented them as three in one , mistook for the trinity worshipped among them , which eusebius nierembergius from acosta calls tangatanga : garcilasso knew nothing of it , but saith , that they called them yllapa . they have likewise a great veneration for the rainbow as the production of the sun ; and for the city of cozco ; but as to all these , they give only an inferiour and honorary worship to them ; but they reserve the soveraign internal worship for pachacamac , and external by sacrifice for the sun. this pachacamac , although he had no temple erected by the yncas , yet the same author tells us , that under the power of cuysmancu , king of the yuncas , there was a valley , called the valley of pachacamac , where was a temple erected to his worship ; and when the ynca of peru demanded subjection to him , and to joyn in the worship of the sun ; he said , pachacamac was creator and preserver of all , and therefore greater than the sun , whom they worshipped , with the utmost expressions of adoration ; the king himself not daring to enter the temple with his face towards his image : and besides him they only worshipped the oracle of rimac , and mamacohca i. e. the sea ; but for the sun , they found too great inconvenience by his heat for them to worship him . the ynca replyed , that they did not only worship the sun , but pachacamac too ; but because he was an invisible and incomprehensible deity , they offered him no sacrifices , nor built him any temple : but they had the greatest inward veneration towards him , which they expressed by all possible demonstrations as oft as they mentioned his name . at last the difference was composed on these terms , the yuncas were to retain the temple of pachacamac , but to forbear any image of him , as unworthy of him , and humane sacrifices , and to receive the worship of the sun ; and the yncas to admit the oracle of rimac . huayna capac , one of the yncas , made use of this argument to the high-priest his uncle , that the sun could not be the supreme god : who dares , said he , command me to go a long journey and never rest ? but if i command any officer i have to go to chili , he dares not disobey : surely then , saith he , our father the sun ( so the yncas still called him ) must needs have a greater lord than himself , which commands him to take such a journey every day . by these things , it fully appears , that the mighty empire of peru , while it was under the power of the yncas , did acknowledge one supreme god , to whom they gave internal worship as most proper for him ; and external adoration at the mention of his name , although they offered their sacrifices to the sun. and it is observable what the same excellent author farther adds , that the indians worshipped pachacamac , under the very title of the unknown god : which was the inscription on the altar at athens , from whence s. paul said , whom ye ignorantly worship , him i declare unto you . acosta saith , that the supreme god was worshipped in mexico with a very magnificent temple , and after him the sun ; in virginia , one that had it from intimate familiarity with the priests declares , that they believe there are many gods , which they call mantoac , but of different sorts and degrees , one only chief and great god , which hath been from all eternity . who , as they affirm , when he purposed to make the world , made first other gods of a principal order , to be as means and instruments to be used in the creation and government to follow , and after , the sun , moon , and stars , as petty gods , and instruments of the other order more principal . and when tomocomo a principal person of virginia was here in england , he averred , that they worshipped the god that made heaven and earth : who was the author of all good to them . creuxius the iesuit , in his late history of canada , saith , that when paulus juvenaeus discoursed with the inhabitants about god , and describing him to be of infinite power , and that made heaven and earth , they cried out to each other atoachan , atoachan , intimating that all things were made by that god whom they worshipped under that name : but they believe the seasons of the year , and the affairs of humane life to be managed by certain spirits under him , whom they endeavour to propitiate by certain rites of worship . leo africanus , testifies concerning some of the ancient african idolaters , that they worshipped guighimo , i. e. the lord of heaven ; which part of religion , he saith , was not delivered to them , by any prophet or teacher , but was inspired into them by god himself . varenius takes notice of the false and imperfect description which is commonly given of the religion of the negroes , and saith , he understood by those who lived long among them , that although they worship many gods , yet they acknowledge one supreme , whom they call fetisso : and believe him to be the author both of the good and evil they receive , and therefore endeavour to appease him by many sacrifices , ceremonies and prayers . mandelslo saith , of the inhabitants of madagascar , that he was informed , that they believe there is one god who made heaven and earth ; and will one day punish bad actions and reward the good . ioh. de barros saith , that the inhabitants of monomotapa , believe in one god whom they call mozimo ; and if we believe him , they worship nothing else besides him : the same others say of the mordui , a people that inhabit the farther parts of muscovy , who declare , that they worship only the creator of the universe to whom they offer the first fruits of all things , even of their meat and drink , casting some parts of them towards heaven : but they have no idols , nor baptism , and say they live according to nature : but brietius saith , they worship idols , or are mahumetans . texeira and pimenta say that the sect of the baneans called lon kah , worship only the supreme god , without idols ; but mexery hath idols and doth worship them . iosephus indus , a native of cranganor saith , that the gentile idolaters there , did worship the god of heaven , under the form of a statue with three faces , and his hands folded , whom they called tambram : and he saith , the king of calecut is of the same religion with them of cranganor : and ludovicus vartomannus saith , that in calecut , they call the great god tamerani , whom they believe to be the maker of the world ; but he adds , that they believe him to live at ease , and that he hath committed the government of the world to deumo , whose image they worship , having on his head , saith vartomannus , just such a crown as the popes of rome have , only it hath three horns upon it : and the same is confessed by iarricus . the people of narsinga likewise believe one supreme god , but worship idols as the rest of the indians do . linschoten , gives this general testimony of them , that although they worship the sun and moon , yet they acknowledge one god , creator and governor of all things ; and do believe the rewards and punishments of another life to be according to mens good or bad actions in this life . but withall they worship idols called pagodes , after such a terrible representation as we make of devils , whom they assert to have lived formerly upon earth , and to have been famous for sanctity and miracles , and to whom they address themselves , as mediators to the supreme god for them . the kingdom of siam is supposed to have been the ancient seat of the bramans , from whence the religion of the indies did spread it self : and here schouten , who lived long among them , saith , that the common perswasion of the gentiles , although different in other points , is , that there is one supreme god , who created all things , and after him many inferiour gods in heaven ; that men shall receive rewards and punishments in another life according to their actions here . and that this religion hath been delivered down to them by the succession of many ages ; and confirmed by the testimony of saints , whose memory they worship in their images , which they have set up like so many lesser deities : who have merited heaven by their good works . the ceremonies of their worship , the nature of their images , the manner of their oblations , the customs of their talapois , ( or friers ) are such , that , some few things excepted , one would imagine no great difference between the varelles of siam , and the iesuits church and devotions there . m. de bourges , who hath given an account of the late french mission into those parts , confesses , that their external devotion to their images is extraordinary , that they offer no bloody sacrifices , but all their oblations are of the fruits of the earth : and that they free themselves from the charge of idolatry , because they acknowledge and worship one god , who is lord over all ; and that their images are intended to preserve the memories of their saints , that by the sight of them the people might be excited to imitate their vertues . and it is very true , saith he , that the priests of siam do thus answer the christians who charge them with idolatry , and think themselves no more guilty than the missionaries of the church of rome who charge them . but he thinks , he hath cleared the difference between them by saying , that those of siam are more uncertain in the belief of the supreme god , and defective in giving any peculiar worship to him : and that they terminate their worship absolutely upon their idols , and ask of them those things , which god alone can give . as to the former , we have seen the general consent of the indians in the belief of a supreme god , ( which is no token of their uncertainty ) and that many of them did think internal worship most proper to him ; and for the latter , if they suppose those deities to be so by participation , and subordinate to the supreme , i do not see , how the difference is made appear between the addresses they made to their saints by their images , and those made in the church of rome ; unless it be sufficient to say , that the pope at rome hath only power to canonize saints , and not the high-priest of siam . and therefore campanella very wisely confesses upon these principles , the heathens were no more guilty of idolatry than themselves , in case the persons they worshipped had real vertues : and he doth not blame the wiser gentiles , but the common people who forgot the true god , and worshipped their varelles or images with the worship of latria ; which the church of rome likewise gives to the cross : but of these things afterwards . if from the indies , the model of this discourse would allow us to search into the idolatries of these northern parts , we should find that the nations which were the deepest sunk into idolatry , did yet retain a sense of one supreme deity . among whom we may justly reckon our saxon ancestors ; and yet from the gothick antiquities which have been lately published , we have reason to believe , that there was a supreme god acknowledged among them too . for in the edda of snorro sturleson which contains the ancient religion of the goths ; the first question proposed is , who was the supreme , and the most ancient of the gods ? to which the answer is , that the most-ancient of the gods is called alfader , the father of all : and he had twelve names which are there enumerated : and after it is said of him , that this god lives for ever , and governs all things , that he made the heaven , and earth , and air , and all things in them ; and which is the greatest of all , he made man and gave him a soul that should live for ever , although the body be destroyed ; and that those who were good should be with him in a place called gimle or wingulf , but those that were bad to hela , and from thence to niflheim . which niflheim , they add , was made many ages before the earth ; and then they proceed to the creation of things , which is there reported after a fabulous manner . it is true , this tradition came to be corrupted among them , when the attributes and worship belonging to this god were given to that prince who conducted the goths from their former seat about the palus maeotis into the northern regions , who was called odin , or woden ; and so there came in such a confusion in their idolatry as was among the greeks between iupiter olympius , and him of creet . but since they do mention this odin as chief of the asae , and tell the circumstances of his leading the people first to one place , then to another , they cannot mean by him , the same god whom they assert to have been from eternity , and to have created all things : but all this confusion did arise among them and other nations , when vain and ambitious men did take upon them the names of the deity on purpose , that they might have worship given to them ; and such a one this odin is described to have been by all the northern historians ; and from hence likewise the names of deified men , have been given to him whom they worshipped for the supreme god. thus also thor was the son of odin ; yet in some of the northern parts , they worshipped the supreme deity under his name , attributing the power over all things , even the inferiour deities to him . and accordingly he was worshipped with a crown on his head , a scepter in his hand , and twelve stars about him ; as he is described by olaus magnus and others ; and ioh. magnus saith , that thor was worshipped in the golden temple at upsalia , tanquam potentissimus & summus omnium deorum ; and to this day among the most barbarous laplanders the supreme god is worshipped under the same representation of thor , ( as we are informed by a late credible writer ) and to him they give besides , the name of iumala : under him they worship a deity , whom they call storjunkare , or vice-roy , like the tartars natagay ; under whose care they suppose all inferiour creatures to man to be , and therefore they living much by hunting , make many supplications to him , and worship him under the representation of a rough hollow stone , which as rude and barbarous as they are , they are far enough from thinking to be the deity it self , but only a symbol to represent him . and the idolatrous inhabitants of samogitia , although they worship a multitude of gods under several names , and as having a particular care over some things , and a sort of serpents as ministers of their gods , yet they confess a supreme god : so lasicius saith , they have one omnipotent god , but many zemopacii , or terrestrial gods ; which he there at large enumerates ; and the same is acknowledged by ioh. meletius , who lived among them and describes their idolatrous customs in an epistle to georg. sabinus , a. d. . who saith , that in the first place they invocate occopirnus , the god of heaven and earth ; and then the inferiour deities who are set over the sea , air , spring , woods , &c. thus far i have clearly proved , that the acknowledged idolatry of the present world , doth not exclude a supreme god , but either the idolaters suppose him to be above their worship , or think it not unlawful to worship inferiour deities with the same external acts of worship which they perform to the supreme god. the last thing i shall prove the consistency of idolatry with giving soveraign worship to the supreme god by is , from the testimony of those fathers who have charged such christians with idolatry , concerning whom there could be no dispute whether they believed and worshipped a supreme god. athanasius frequently lays this to the charge of the arians , that by giving adoration to the son of god , supposing him to be a creature , they did bring in the heathen idolatry among christians : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which words are the more remarkable , because he accuses them of doing the same thing , which s. paul charges the gentiles with ; which therefore doth not imply , the passing by the worship of the creator , but giving the same divine worship to a creature , which they do to the supreme god. the same words he repeats afterwards in the same oration , and desires the arians to shew the difference between the greeks and them , if they believed christ not to be the true god , but only by participation , as the greeks supposed their gods to be . the force of this argument were wholly lost , if either the greeks supposed many independent deities , or idolatry were inconsistent with the acknowledgement of one true god ; for the arians might upon either of those grounds have shewed the disparity between them and the greeks . afterwards he saith expresly , they fell into the polytheism of the greeks ; from whence it unavoidably follows , that their polytheism did not suppose several deities of necessary and eternal existence ; but one original and supreme god , and the others only made so by participation from him . if it be impossible for a man who hath a right opinion of gods incomparable excellency above the most noble creatures , to attribute the honour due to god alone , to that which he conceiveth to be a mere creature ; then the arians were unjustly charged with idolatry ; for they were supposed to do that , which it seems is impossible to be done : for they asserted , christ to be a mere creature , and yet athanasius saith , they were therein guilty of idolatry , although they believed god to be incomparably above his creatures , in as much as all creatures , and christ himself had what he had by participation from him : and whatever excellencies are attributed to a mere creature , as to power , or wisdom or goodness , supposing them to be derivative from a superior being , they do still suppose an incomparable distance between the creator and the creature . and it is farther observable in athanasius , that he doth not lay the force of his argument in any distinction of the degrees of the divine worship , but useth promiscuously the terms of latria and dulia , as to the worship given to a creature ; for where he speaks afterwards of the arians and gentiles agreeing in giving divine worship to a creature , he thus expresses it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , giving the worship of dulia to a creature as well as to the creator ; not as though he looked on the worship of dulia as distinct from latria , but by using these words promiscuously he shews , that he understood by both of them that divine worship which is alone proper to god , and which being given to a creature makes it idolatry . he farther saith , that supposing what excellencies we please in christ , although derived from god , yet if we withal suppose him to be a mere man , if we give divine worship to him , we shall be found 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 worshippers of man , i. e. such kind of idolaters as the heathen were in the worship of deified men : from which nothing can be more evident , than that the supposing the most real excellencies in a creature to have been by participation from god , doth not take off from the guilt of idolatry , when that worship is given to the creature , which belongs only to god. s. athanasius farther argues , that nothing but the divine nature is capable of adoration , and not any created excellency how great soever it be . for saith he , if the height of glory did deserve adoration , then every inferiour creature ought to worship the superior ; but it is no such matter , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for one creature is not to worship another , but a servant his lord , and the creature god. from hence peter forbad cornelius who would have worshipped him saying , for i also am a man. and the angel s. john saying , see thou do it not , for i am also thy fellow servant ; worship god. whence he infers , nor that the angel complemented s. iohn , not that s. peter only did it to shew his humility , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that it is proper only to god to be worshipped , without any distinction of the nature , kinds , or degrees of worship . but how many distinctions would t. g. and his brethren make before they would grant that proposition ? it is true , say they , of latria , soveraign and absolute worship , which is proper only to god ; but not of an inferiour kind of divine worship , which may be given to a creature on the account of divine excellencies communicated to it by god : this we may suppose was the answer of the arians ; but s. athanasius was not certainly so weak a man to argue at this rate , if he had supposed this a sufficient answer ; for he could not but foresee it ; and a man of so much understanding , as it is evident he was , would have prevented this answer if he had thought it to the purpose ; but instead of that , he sets himself to prove , that the angels , knowing themselves to be creatures , have on that account rejected all divine worship ; on the other side the angels are commanded to worship christ , and christ did receive divine worship ; therefore , saith he , let the arians burst themselves they can never make it appear that christ would have been worshipped , if he had been a creature . and to prevent all subterfuges in this matter , in his fourth oration , he argues against joyning christ together with god in our prayers to him , if he were a creature , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . no man would ever pray to receive any thing from god and angels ; or from god and any creature . little did athanasius think of mens joyning god and the saints , or god and the b. virgin in their prayers or praises : little did he imagine , that ever it would have been received in the christian church , to conclude their books with a doxology to god and the b. virgin , laus deo & b. virgini , as many of the greatest reputation in the church of rome have done : and as baronius hath done it very solemnly at the end of every tome of his annals : as at the conclusion of the first , after the mention of the father , son and holy ghost , he adds , nec non & sanctissimae virgini dei genitrici mariae , ut conciliatrici divini numinis ; ipsi namque sicut haec omnia nostra accepta ferimus , ita pariter & offerimus ; ut ipsa eadem qualiacunque sint dilecto filio suo porrigut , &c. and in the end of the second he hath these words , et beneficii memor actura gratias ( oratio ) ex more ad sanctissimae dei genitricis mariae pedes prona se sternat ; ut cui accepta fert omnia , dono offerat quicquid à deo se ejus precìbus intelligit consecutam . is not this joyning god and the creature together , which athanasius supposes no christian would ever do ? but supposing they did it , he doth not at all suppose them to be excused from idolatry in so doing . but athanasius goes on shewing , that if the arians confess christ to be god , and to be of a distinct substance from his father , they must bring in polytheism ; or at least worship two gods , the one uncreated and unbegotten , the other created and begotten : and in so doing they must oppose one to the other . for , saith he , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we cannot see one in the other , because of their different natures and operations . which is an argument i desire t. g. to consider the weight of . he is proving , that supposing christ to be of a different nature from god , although he had all imaginable excellencies in him communicated from the father , yet god could not be worshipped in the worshipping of the son ; but these two worships must be opposite to each other , because the one is the worship of a created , the other of an increated being . how far was athanasius then from supposing , that the worship given to any created being on the account of communicated excellencies , is at last carried to the supreme , and terminated only upon him ? for , he saith , that these two worships do 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fight one against the other : and therefore who ever do give such different worships , they must bring in more gods than one , which is an apostasie from one god : where we still observe that polytheism is consistent as well as idolatry , with the acknowledgement of one supreme being : and that they are said to worship other gods , who do believe the true , but give divine worship to a creature . and therefore he would have the arians to reckon themselves together with the gentiles : and although they shun the reproach of the name , yet they hold the same opinion with them : and it is to no purpose for them to say that they do not worship two uncreated beings , for this is only to deceive the simple : for although they do not worship two uncreated , yet they worship two gods of a different nature , the one created , the other uncreated . for , saith he in these remarkable words , if the heathens worshipped one uncreated and many created ; and they worship one uncreated , and one created , what difference is there between them and the gentiles ? for that one whom they worship is but as the many which the gentiles , being of the same created nature together with them : therefore , he saith , they deny christ and joyn with the gentiles , giving the same worship to several gods. i do not think any proposition in euclid can be made more clear , than it is from these expressions of athanasius , that he believed idolatry to be consistent with the belief and worship of one god. the same thing he urges in other places , but if this be not proof enough , i know not what will be . s. gregory nazianzen parallels those who worshipped the son or holy ghost , supposing them to be creatures , with those who worshipped astaroth or chemosh or remphan , because they were creatures too : for whatever difference of honour or glory there be , all creatures are our fellow servants , and therefore not to be worshipped by us . might not the arians have chared gregory nazianzen to have imitated iulian the apostate upon as good reason as t. g. doth me ? for however in words they professed to abhor the worship of ashtoreth , or chemosh , or remphan , as much as he did ; yet he did not regard their professions , but thought it reasonable to judge by the nature of their actions . and what profaneness would t. g. have accounted this , to parallel the worship of the son and holy ghost with that of chemosh and ashtoreth ? yet we see gregory doth not forbear making use of the similitude of the worship , although there were so great a disparity in the objects . gregory nyssen saith , that the devil by the means of arianism brought idolatry again insensibly into the world , perswading men to return to the worship of the creature by his sophistry , and that arius , eunomius , eudoxius and aetius were his instruments in restoring idolatry under a pretence of christianity . in another place , he hath this considerable passage . god commands by the prophet , that we should have no new god , nor worship any strange god ; but that is a new god which was not for ever ; and that is a strange god which is different from our god. who is our god ? the true god ; who is a strange god ? he that hath a different nature from the true god. he that makes the son a creature , makes him of a different nature . and they who make him a creature , do they worship him or no ? if not , they joyn with the iews , if they do worship him , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they commit idolatry . therefore we must believe him to be the true son of the true father , that we may worship him , and doing so , that we be not condemned as worshipping a strange god. to the same purpose he argues against eunomius ; that it is the property of idolaters to worship the creature , or any new or strange god ; and that they who divide the father and the son , must either wholly take away the worship of the son , or they must worship an idol ( the very word used by s. gregory ) making a creature and not god the object of their worship , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , placing the name of christ upon an idol : that this was the fault of the heathen idolaters that they did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , worship those which were not gods by nature , and therefore could not worship the true god : where it is observable that he uses the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 both for the worship given to idols by the heathens , and for that which is proper to god : from which it is evident that these fathers knew of no such distinction of the nature of divine worship , as is understood in the roman church under the terms of latria and dulia : for if they had , having to deal with subtile adversaries , they would not have failed to have explained themselves in the matter ; which had been absolutely necessary to the force of their own arguments , if any such distinction had been known or allowed in the christian church . again he saith , that he that puts the name of son to a creature 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must be reckoned among idolaters ; for they , saith he , called dagon , and bel , and the dragon god : but for all that they did not worship god ; and therefore he still urgeth against eunomius , that either with the iews he must deny the worship of christ , or he must joyn with the gentiles in the worship of the creature . s. basil charges the arians and eunomians with bringing in the polytheism and idolatry of the greeks ; for they who say , that the son of god is a creature , and yet worship him as god , do worship a creature and not the creator , and so introduce gentilism again . and against eunomius , he urges the same places and reasons , which i have already mentioned out of nyssen , viz. that if christ be not the eternal god , he must be a new and strange god ; and to worship that which by nature is not god , is the fault s. paul charges the heathen idolaters with . epiphanius proves , that christs being a creature , and having divine worship given him , are inconsistent according to the scriptures : and that those who worship a creature , fall under s. pauls reprehension of the heathen idolaters , who did call the creatures god : but true faith teaches us to worship the creator and not the creature . he thinks this rule sufficient against all the arts and sophistry of men , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that no creature ought to be worshipped . for , saith he , upon the same reason we worship one , we may worship all together with their creator , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : where we see he doth not speak of such worship as doth exclude the creator , but of that which is supposed to be joyned together with his ; nor of a soveraign worship to be given to them , but of such as doth suppose the distance between the creator and his creatures . upon this principle , he saith , the arians made the son of god like to the idols of the heathens : for if he be not the true god , he is not to be worshipped ; nay , he adds , that those who said christ was to be worshipped although a creature , did build up babylon again , and set up the image of nebuchadnezzar , and by their words as by musical instruments draw men to the worship of an image rather than of the true god. is it credible , saith he , that god should make a creature to be worshipped , when he hath forbidden men to make any likeness of things in heaven or earth , and to fall down and worship it ? when the apostle makes this the idolatry of the heathen that they worshipped the creature as well as the creator : wherein they became fools : for it is a foolish thing to attribute divinity to a creature , and to break the first commandment of the law , thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve . therefore , saith he , the holy church of god doth not worship any creature , but the father in the son , and the son in the father , together with the holy ghost . to the very same purpose , he speaks in his ancoratus . if the son of god be a creature , he is not to be worshipped ; for it is folly and wickedness to worship a creature . but these are not the only persons whom epiphanius charges with such idolatry as is consistent with the belief of one true god : for he charges those with idolatry who gave divine worship to the b. virgin ; and saith , that this was that very idolatry which god condemned in the people of israel , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there shall be worshippers of the dead : which worship of the b. virgin , was offering up a cake to her ( which surely is not so much as mens offering up themselves to be her slaves , and offering up their devotions and services to her ) yet this epiphanius cryes out upon as rank idolatry , and destructive to their souls who did it , and the device of the devil ; who always brought in idolatry , saith he , under fair pretences . which of all the prophets ever suffered a man to be worshipped , not to speak of a woman ? and although she have never so great excellencies , yet her nature remains the same with others : but neither is elias to be worshipped , although still alive ; nor s. john , although he received extraordinary favour from christ ; nor thecla , nor any other of the saints . for , saith he , the old deceit shall not prevail over us , to leave the living god , and to worship the things that are made by him : for they , saith s. paul , served and worshipped the creature more than the creator , and therein became fools . but if it be not lawful to worship angels , how much less to worship the daughter of anna ? of whom our saviour said on purpose 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; what have i to do with thee ? lest any should think more than was fitting of her , he calls her woman , as foreseeing the schisms and heresies that would come into the world on her account . we are not to imagine that these people were so silly to take the b. virgin for the great god , nor that they did forsake the worship of god and christ for that of the b. virgin ; but all that epiphanius saith of them is , that they brought her in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 instead of a deity , i. e. that they gave divine honour to her ; and whosoever did give this to a creature , they looked on them as guilty of forsaking the true god , however they might in words still profess and acknowledge him ; so he charges those with idolatry who worshipped iephthas daughter , and thermutis the daughter of pharaoh ; but it were madness to think that either of these were esteemed by their worshippers , the supreme deity . but epiphanius fully explains himself , when he saith that idolatry comes into the world through an adulterous inclination of the mind , which cannot be contented with one god alone ; like an adulterous woman that is not satisfied with the chast embraces of one husband , and wanders in her lust after many lovers . therefore as adultery is consistent with the owning of one lawful husband , so is idolatry with the profession of one true god. therefore epiphanius bids men , have a care of too great an admiration of the saints , lest it should lead them into this dangerous error ; that the safest way is to honour their lord ; that those are equally to blame who too much extol the b. virgin , as those who depress and vilifie her ; too great praises being apt to become an occasion of others falling : and therefore he repeats it twice as the saying he would have all christians remember , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , honour the virgin , but worship god ; and lest any should think worship were a part of that honour which was due to her , he saith expresly , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , let no man worship the b. virgin : for that belongs neither to the woman , nor to her husband , nor to angels , but to god alone . how punctually hath the church of rome followed the counsel of epiphanius ! but of this at large hereafter . s. cyril of alexandria likewise makes those guilty of heathen idolatry , of worshipping the creature rather than the creator , who give adoration to christ supposing him to be a creature : and he undertakes to demonstrate out of scripture , that no creature ought to be worshipped as god ; and that nothing which doth give adoration to god , ought to receive it from others : which he proves , from the examples of peter to cornelius , the angels to s. iohn , and manoe ; and that whatever excellency we suppose in creatures , it doth not make them capable of divine worship ; but although they have different excellencies , yet one sort is not to worship another , but all of them are to worship god alone , and his son christ iesus . again , if christ be not god , and we give him worship , we shall be found 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , worshipping the creature rather than the creator ; ( where we are to observe that s. cyril applies 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to proper divine worship . ) again , it is written , thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve ; how then , if he be a creature , can he be worshipped by us ? and elsewhere , the question being proposed , whether we may worship christ as man ? he answers , god forbid : for , saith he , this would be vanity , errour and deceit ; and we should differ nothing from those who worshipped the creature rather than the creator , and be liable to the same charge s. paul draws up against the heathen idolaters , viz. that they changed the truth of god into a lie , &c. and at large there shews , that this would be relapsing into the old idolatry . in his commentaries on s. iohn he shews , that although christ had never so divine excellencies communicated to him , yet he was not a fit object for our worship if he were not the true god ; because we are bound to serve and worship god alone : and that if he be not so , not only mankind but the angels will be guilty of idolatry in giving him adoration . in his dialogues about the trinity , he saith , it is one of the great blessings we have by christ , to be delivered from the worship of the creature ; but in case we return to that , the institution of moses will be found better than that of christianity ; for that did strictly forbid all worship of creatures , and called men from them to the worship of god alone ; that this was the reproach of the gentiles , that they worshipped creatures , and that the christians returned to gentilism , if they worshipped a creature together with god ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : and afterwards , he calls this a falling from christ ; all which doth fully discover s. cyrils judgement that idolatry is consistent with the acknowledgement and worship of one supreme god. theodoret saith , he that came to take away the worship of the creature , would never set it up again : for this would be a most absurd thing , to bring them back again , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the worship of creatures , where he uses dulia likewise for the adoration that is due to the son and holy ghost . s. chrysostom saith , that the arians and macedonians making one great god , and another less and created god , did bring in gentilism again . for it is that which teacheth men to worship a creature , and to make one great god , and others inferiour . such as these s. paul condemns , for giving worship to a creature : and they are accursed according to the law of moses : which saith , cursed is every one who worships a creature , or any thing that is made . s. ambrose goes farther and saith , s. paul foresaw that christians would be brought to the worship of creatures , and therefore not only condemns the gentiles , but warns the christians by saying , that god would damn those who worship the creature rather than the creator . either therefore let the arians cease to worship him whom they call a creature ; or cease to call him a creature whom they worship ; lest under the name of worshippers they be found to commit the greater sacriledge . s. augustin saith , that the arians by giving worship to christ as god , whom they believed to be a creature , did make more gods than one , and break the law of god which did forbid the worship of more than one god ; and set up idols to themselves , although they acknowledged one great god , and made the son and holy ghost lesser and inferiour gods. from this unanimous consent of the fathers in charging the arrians with idolatry , it most evidently follows , that according to them idolatry is consistent with the belief and worship of one supreme god ; which is not , the only considerable advantage we gain by those testimonies , but from them it likewise appears , . that it is idolatry to give divine worship to any creature , how great soever the excellencies of that creature be ; for none can be imagined greater , than those which the arians attributed to the son of god. . that the fathers looked on the worship of dulia as divine worship ; as appears by their applying that term to the worship which was given to christ. . that the name of an idol doth belong to the most real and excellènt being , when divine worship is given to it ; for they give this name to christ himself , when he is worshipped as a creature . . that relative latria is idolatry , when given to any creature . for this was all the arians subterfuge , that it could not be idolatry to worship christ as a creature , because they worshipped him only as the image of god , and relatively terminating their worship on god the father through him : notwithstanding which answer of theirs , the fathers with one consent , declare such worship to be idolatry ; and that it would make way for the worship of any creature , and was the introducing of heathen idolatry under a pretence of christianity . these things which are here only observed in passage , will be of great use in the following discourses . chap. ii. of the nature of divine worship . i now come to the second enquiry , wherein the nature of that divine worship lies , which being given to a creature makes that worship idolatry ? and that i may proceed with all possible clearness in this matter , i shall enquire , . what worship is ? . what divine worship is , and what are the proper acts of it ? . how the applying of these acts to a creature , doth make the worship of it idolatry ? what worship is . aquinas hath given this distinction between honour and worship ; that honour is quaedam recognitio excellentiae alicujus , an acknowledgement of anothers excellency , but cultus or worship in quodam obsequio consistit , implies subjection to another . the foundation of this distinction doth not lie so much in the force and signification of the words , as in the different effects that excellency alone considered hath upon our minds ; from what it hath when it is joyned with superiority and a power over us . meer excellency doth produce only in our minds a due esteem according to the nature and degrees of it ; which is a debitum morale , as the schoolmen speak , from us towards it , i. e. something which according to nature and reason we ought to give it , and therefore it is accounted a part of natural justice , to esteem whatever excellencies we apprehend to be in others , although we receive no benefit by them our selves ; and whatever implies a real excellencie , whether it be intellectual or moral , whether infinite or finite , whether natural or acquired , it deserves an estimation suitable to its kind and degree . but the honour which is due to excellencie doth not only lie in an act of the mind ; but in a correspondent inclination of the will to testifie that esteem by such outward expressions as may manifest it to others ; and that either by words , which is called praise ; or by gestures , as bowings of the body ; or by facts , as gifts , statues , &c. all these aquinas tells us do belong to honour . but worship implies something beyond this ; which is subjection to anotheron the account of his power over us ; for we may express honour and esteem towards equals or inferiours , because the reason of it may be in those as well as others ; therefore there must be a different duty in us with respect to superiority ; and this is worship . so the schoolmen define adoration ; adorare non dicimur , nisi in dignitate constitutos , quos nobis superiores cognoscimus , saith vasquez . honor potest esse ad aequalem , saith suarez , juxta illud ad rom. . honore invicem praevenientes ; adoratio vero respicit alium ut excellentem & superiorem . ex parte adorantis plane necessarium est , saith tannerus , ut is rem adorandam concipiat , tanquam aliquo modo se superiorem seu praestantiorem . but more fully bernardus pujol , adoratio est submissio quaedam & quasi humiliatio , quam subditus facit propter excellentiam superioris , & in honorem illius : and gamachaeus , adoratio essentialiter includit subjectionem ac submissionem aliquam . adoratio est inferioris ad superiorem , saith ysambertus : cardinal lugo goes farther , saying of cultus , se apud probatos auctores videre , semper eam vocem applicari ad significandam reverentiam erga superiores . and although arriaga thinks cultus of a larger signification , yet the definition he gives of adoration is , that it is honor exhibitus superiori in signum submissionis & humiliationis . bellarmine makes the first act of adoration , to be in the mind , and that only the apprehension of the excellencie of the object ; but the second in the will , to be not only an inclination of it towards the object , but a willing by some internal or external act to acknowledge the excellencie of the object and our subjection : and to these he adds , the external act , either of bowing the head , or bending the knee , or some other token of subjection . so that bellarmine agrees with the rest in making the formal act of adoration to be subjection to a superiour : but withal , he makes the meer apprehension of excellencie to include the formal reason of it ; whereas meer excellencie without superiority doth not require any subjection but only estimation . for let us apprehend never so great excellencie in a person that hath no authority over us , the only effect of it in us , is only a mighty estimation ; whereas the apprehension of power and authority in a person , where there is not that opinion of excellencie doth naturally incline men to submission to him . nay , although we apprehend a conjunction of excellencie and power together , if that power doth not respect us , we find no inclination in our selves by any acts to testifie our subjection to it . as if we apprehend the greatest things in the world of the emperor of china , or iapan ; how doth that apprehension move us to express any acts of subjection to either of them ? we are well enough contented for all that to let them govern at home , and think it more our own interest and duty to submit to those who have the power over our selves . nay , yet farther , if according to the epicurean hypothesis , we could suppose god himself to be a most excellent being , but to exercise no power or authority over the world , there would be still reason for a great esteem left ; but not for the subjection of our selves to him : and we might express that esteem by praises , and other testimonies of his honour ; but there would be no ground for any proper service or worship of him ; either in prayers or thanksgivings , or any rites of religious worship which imply any dependence upon him , or subjection to him . so that the notion of honour and worship are in themselves distinct things , the one arising from the apprehension of excellencie , and the formal reason of the other , being superiority and a power over us . . for the nature of divine worship ; it must consist in such a subjection of our selves to god ; as is most suitable to the apprehensions we ought to have of his infinite power and soveraignty over us . and because his soveraignty is supreme , absolute and peculiar to himself ; therefore our worship of him must approach as near to the expression of this , as it is possible for us to come , i. e. it must be of the highest nature , with the greatest submission of our souls to him , it must be entire , not divided between him and others , and it must have such a peculiarity in it , as may not be given to any besides himself . for whatever worship is common to him and others , doth not serve to express the sense of our minds as to his peculiar soveraignty over us ; and this is one of the inviolable rights of soveraignty , to have such acts of worship appropriated to it , that the giving of these to any other , is a violation of the royal dignity : and this hath been looked on as a crimen laesae majestatis , and to deserve as high a punishment as any other whatsoever ; because it is an immediate attempt upon the soveraign power , and whatever lessens it tends to overthrow it . if then god be acknowledged by all to have the only supreme power over us , nothing can be more unreasonable in it self , nor a greater affront to his majesty , than to make all outward expressions of our duty to him common to himself and his creatures . i know it is not denied by t. g. or his brethren , that there is a soveraign worship which belongs to god : but we are to consider , that withal they tell us , ( . ) that the external acts of adoration or worship are equivocal , and sometimes may signifie the honour which belongs to god , and sometimes that which belongs to the creature . ( . ) that even sacrifice it self , which they look on as most peculiar to god and an acknowledgement of the absolute worship due to him , doth receive the formality of such an act from an intention to profess a total submission of our selves to god as the supreme author of life and death ; otherwise t. g. saith , the material action of sacrifice may be done for several ends and intentions . by which it appears that upon the whole matter , the nature of divine worship is not , according to them , to be taken from any external acts , but from the inward intention of the mind . but that there are some peculiar external acts of divine worship which ought to be attributed to none but to god himself ; i prove , . from the nature and design of religious worship . . from the law of god appropriating some acts only to god. . from the practise of the christian church , condemning those for idolatry , who have given them to any creature . . from the nature and design of religious worship , which is to put a difference between the worship we give to god and to his creatures . for since god hath appointed government among men , it is plain that his intention was , that some kind of worship should be given from some of his creatures to others , although of the same nature with themselves ; for where there is a power to punish and to reward , there is the foundation of worship in those who are under that power : which worship lies in expressing a due regard to that power , by a care not to provoke it , and an endeavour to obtain the favour of it ; which being among mankind living in society with each other , is therefore called civil worship . which denomination it doth not lose although we give that worship to superiours upon a religious account , i. e. though i give worship to my soveraign with a respect to god , because he hath commanded it , and i intend to honour him by it ; yet the worship doth not take its denomination from my intention , but from the nature of the act , which being civil , the worship continues to bear that name . by which we see that the external circumstances which do accompany mens acts , are those which do so circumscribe and limit them , that from thence they become either civil or religious . i cannot therefore but extremely wonder to see men of understanding so much to seek in this matter , because the same external acts are common to divine and civil worship ; but what then ? doth it therefore follow that there is no certain way to discriminate these one from the other ? i grant the same external act of adoration may be used to men which is used to god ; as abraham bowed to the children of heth in token of civil respect , as well as when he worshipped god ; but could not any one that considered the circumstances make a plain difference between these two sorts of adoration ? when the roman emperours would have divine honours given to them , were any of the people of rome so senseless to say they knew no difference between them and the worship given them before , because they might use the same external acts of adoration in both cases ? suppose the pope one day to sit on , a throne as a temporal prince , and on that account summoning his subjects to give homage to him , and another day to be placed upon the altar , as he is after his election by the orders of the roman church , there to receive adoration from the cardinals as the vicar of christ ; would any man say he could see no difference in these , because the same postures may be used in both ? although then the outward acts may be the same , yet the signification of those acts may be far from equivocal , because determined by the circumstances which do accompany them . i grant then , that the meer external act of adoration in bowing or kneeling , may be given both on the account of honour and worship , i. e. upon the account of excellencie , and superiority ; as some of the patriarchs bowed to angels , as a token of honour of their excellencies , and not out of religious worship ; and men may bow and kneel to their soveraign princes on the account of civil worship ; and children to their parents in token of their subjection to them ; as well as creatures to their creator in their solemn acts of devotion : but i say in all these cases , the different signification of these acts is to be gathered from the circumstances of them . and that acts of religious , and civil worship might be distinguished from each other , came the appointment of set times and places , and solemn rites for the performance of religious worship . from hence cicero gives that definition of religion , religio est , quae superioris cujusdam naturae ( quam divinam vocant ) curam ceremoniamque affert : therefore they thought the solemn rites and circumstances of religious worship were sufficient to discriminate the nature of that worship from any other : and these they thought so peculiar to the divine nature , that whatever being they gave this solemn worship to , they thought to deserve the name of a deity although inferiour and subordinate : because these acts of worship were appropriated to a divine being . aquinas cannot deny that there are some external acts of religion so peculiar to god that they ought not to be given to any other ; and on this account he makes religion a moral vertue , and a part of justice , because it is its office reddere cultum debitum deo , to give god the worship which belongs to him ; now , saith he , because the excellencie of god is peculiar to himself , being infinitely above all others , therefore the worship which belongs to him ought to be peculiar . ad religionem pertinet , saith cajetan , exhibere reverentiam uni deo , secundum unam rationem , in quantum sc. est primum principium creationis & gubernationis rerum . but since this reason of religious worship , from the creation and government of the world , is so peculiar to god , as to be incommunicable to any else besides him , is there not all the reason in the world that the acts of this worship should be peculiar to him too ? and upon this ground aquinas doth grant it in the case of sacrifice ; hoc etiam videmus in omni republica observari , quod summum rectorem aliquo signo singulari honorant , quod cuicunque alteri deferretur esset crimen laesae majestatis ; & ideo in lege divina statuitur poena mortis iis qui divinum honorem aliis exhibent . from whence we infer , not only that there ought to be peculiar external acts of religious worship appropriated to god , but that the giving the worship done by those acts to any creature , is a crime of the highest nature . the same aquinas , disputing against the heathens , saith , that it is an unreasonable thing , to those that hold one first principle , to give divine worship to any other besides him : and we give worship to god , not that he needs it ; but that hereby the belief of one god may be confirmed in us by external and sensible acts , which cannot be done , saith he , unless there be some peculiar acts of his worship , and this we call divine worship . besides , this external worship is necessary to men , to raise in their minds a spiritual reverence of god ; and we find that custom hath a great influence on mens minds ; but it is a custom among men that the honour or worship given to the supreme governour should be given to none else ; therefore it ought to be much more so towards god ; because if a liberty be allowed of giving this worship to others of a higher rank and not only to the supreme , then men and angels might give divine worship to one another . to which he adds , that the benefits we receive from god are peculiar to him , as that of creation and preservation , and that he is our lord by a proper title , and angels and the best of creatures are but his servants , therefore we ought not to give the same worship to them that we do to god as our lord. in his disputation about idolatry , he shews , that the command exod. . doth reach to external as well as internal worship ; and he argues against those , who pleaded that all visible and external worship ought to be given to other gods , and only internal to the supreme god ; as being much better , upon this principle , that the external belongs only to him , to whom the internal belongs ; and he disputes against those hereticks , who thought it lawful in time of persecution to give external worship to idols , as long as they preserved the true faith in their minds ; for , saith he , the external worship is a profession or sign of the internal , but as it is a pernicious thing for a man to speak contrary to his mind ; so it is to act contrary to it , and therefore s. augustin condemned seneca as so much the more culpable in the worship of idols , because he acted against the sense of his own mind . in the next article , he shews , that idolatry is a sin of the highest nature ; for , saith he , as in a commonwealth , it is the greatest crime to give the honour due to the soveraign to any other ( for this is as much as lies in a man to put all things into disorder and confusion ) so among the sins that are committed against god , that seems to be the greatest , whereby a man gives divine worship to a creature : and saith , that it includes blasphemy in it , because it takes away from god the peculiarity of his dominion ; cajetan there saith , that the idolater , as much as in him lies , tollit à deo suam singularem excellentiam qua solus est deus ; robs god of that peculiar excellencie whereby he is god alone . thus we see the necessity of some peculiar external acts of divine worship is asserted by these men in order to the preserving the belief and worship of one god in the world . suarez grants , that as the excellency of god is singular and above all creatures ; so he ought to have a singular and incommunicable worship , as is plain from those words of scripture , thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve : but then he makes this worship peculiar to god , to consist chiefly in the internal acts of the mind , which only in themselves and of their own nature are such as do belong to the worship of god ; but external acts are not so determined of themselves , but they may be given either to god or to the creature : however , he grants , that although outward acts be in themselves indifferent , yet when sufficient authority hath apprepriated some acts as peculiar to divine worship , they ought to be used for no other purpose ; and that if these acts of worship be applied to a creature , it makes that worship at least external idolatry , if it be not done ex animo and out of a false opinion . in this point of the external acts of divine worship , these two things may be observed of the divines of the roman church . . that in the general they confess , that there ought to be some peculiar external acts of divine worship , as most agreeable to gods incommunicable excellencie ; and in particular , when they are pressed with any difficulties from scripture or fathers , about not giving divine worship to a creature , then they are sure to tell us , those places are to be understood of the worship that is proper only to god. thus they think to escape the force of that place which is so evident , that it blinds them with the light of it ; thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve ; which was certainly understood of an external act of worship ; for the devil said to christ , fall down and worship me . yes , say they , that is very true of the adoration proper to god ; but what is that ? for they say there is no outward act of adoration but is common to god and his creatures . tannerus excepts no creature , inanimate or animate , but only the devil ; yet lest he should have gone too far in this , he saith afterwards , that physically speaking god may be worshipped in any creature , but then men must have a care that they do not truely and properly worship the thing it self ; but only use the external signs of divine honour before it , applying them to what is represented . i confess this gives a very slender account of our saviours answer , for it seems he might physically speaking have worshipped god , by falling down before the devil ; all the danger was in the scandal and indecencie of it : but being done in a wilderness , the scandal of it , as to men at least , had not been great . vasquez resolves the case , that if the devil appear to a man , he may do all the external acts of adoration before him , provided he be not well assured it is the devil , and that he direct his worship to god : and that he proves by this demonstrative argument , because all external acts of adoration are to be directed by the inward intention of the mind ; but he confesses many of their divines allow only a conditional adoration in this case ; however it seems our saviour spake a little too peremptorily , in utterly refusing it upon any terms . but then they tell us the devil was too fancy , and demanded the absolute worship proper only to god ; i. e. saith vasquez , not meerly the external act of adoration , but that inward submission of mind which is only due to god , which is more than appears by the words . bellarmine and the rest of them say that our saviour refused to give the worship of latria to the devil ; by which it seems , our saviour did not answer to the purpose , for the devil expressed no more , than falling down and worshipping him ; which according to them might be done without latria , by the same external act , but not the same intention of mind : which not being in the power of him that demands , but only of him that gives , nothing had been more necessary than to have expresly required the intention of the mind , otherwise the devil might have been easily cheated by directing the intention of the external act quite another way ; but for all that we can see , the devil was then to learn these subtilties . however , this now serves to turn off the plainest places that would seem to prove , that all external acts of religious worship are to be given only to god. the hereticks , saith arriaga , object many things out of scriptures , and fathers , and councils , in which it is said that god only is to be worshipped ; but to all these we answer in one word , that they only speak of the worship of latria which is proper to god : and so they would have answered thousands of places more , as well as those that are urged against them : so that the reserving this worship as peculiar to god serves them to very good purpose , viz. to turn off as with a wet finger whatever is urged against them . so bernardus pujol without more ado sends away all the testimonies of the fathers , ad loca sanctorum patrum respondemus , illa intelligenda esse de adoratione latriae quae soli deo tribuitur ; and so fare them well , without any farther examination . and yet some of these men upon better thoughts have concluded that some of the places of scripture cannot be understood of the worship of latria . for although aquinas , tannerus and several others , answer the instance of mordecai refusing to worship aman , with the common shift , that he would not give latria to him , yet cajetan , suarez , vasquez , pujol and arriaga , all conclude , that this is not to be understood of the worship of latria ; but that mordecai refused to use the same external act of adoration , which among the iews they were wont to give to god : wherein cajetan thinks , he was not so wise as he might have been , because jacob worshipped his brother esau ; arriaga , that he did well though he followed an erring conscience : suarez , vasquez , and pujol , that he did prudently , because the constant using of that act of adoration to aman , which among them did belong to the worship of god , would have tended to the dishonour of god and religion , and have been a great scandal to the iews . neither is cajetan satisfied with the same answer to the instance of st. iohn's offering to worship the angel , for this were , saith he , to charge st. john with committing a very great sin , which the angel hindred him from the consummation of : but , saith he , st. john intended no more than the greatest external act of reverence ; but because so great reverence ought to be reserved only to god , that some outward reverence might be appropriated to him , therefore the angel forbad him giving it to him . suarez confesses , that it cannot be understood of latria , but that the angel put it off with a complement , as st. peter did to cornelius : and with him the rest agree , either as a complement to his person , or to humane nature since the incarnation : but aquinas pertinently saith , it was to avoid the occasion of idolatry , because the angel immediately adds , worship god. thus far we find they go in the avoiding of difficulties . . but when they deliver their minds freely , they reserve no one act of external adoration as proper to god ; and to be performed by all christians . bellarmin saith , that fere omnes actus exteriores communes sunt omni adorationi , almost all external acts are common to the adoration of god and the creatures , excepting sacrifice , and what belongs to that , as temples , altars and priests , which , he saith , god hath reserved to himself . arriaga saith , that there is no external act of adoration but may be given to creatures , excepting only sacrifice ; suarez , that sacrifice it self doth not signifie our acknowledgement of gods soveraignty of it self , but only by custom and imposition ; for the killing of a sacrifice doth not of it self signifie that god is the author of life and death . and for other parts of religious worship he confesses , that temples are erected and festivals kept to the honour of saints , at least secondarily ; that they are worshipped with fastings , vigils , pilgrimages , and such like ; that their worship is deservedly called religious worship . . because it consists of religious actions . . because it is so nearly conjoyned with divine worship . . because it tends to mens improvement in religion . . because it is founded in sanctity , which is next to religion . it seems then nothing is left to god , but having the same things done to him in the first place , which may in a secondary respect be done to his creatures ; for we are told , that even sacrifice it self may be offered to god for the honour of his creatures . but what is this sacrifice now among christians , which is peculiar to god ? there is no other , saith arriaga , but that of the altar ; and this , as cajetan observes , cannot reach to all christians , but only belongs to the priests to offer it : but instead of this , he saith from aquinas , that two sorts of spiritual sacrifices do belong to all , viz. the offering up of their minds in devotion to god , and the offering up the acts of other vertues . so that at last we see no one external act of proper religious worship is by them left as peculiar to god , which all mankind are obliged to perform . and to this purpose we have the plain resolution of cardinal lugo , which i the rather mention because of his great authority , and eminency , and writing since the rest ; he puts the question , whether there be any sign , or external act of adoration , which it is not lawful to give to any , but to god alone ? for , saith he , genuflection , and smitting the breast , and such like , are given to saints . to this he answers , . that it is possible such a sign or external act may be instituted by men , as may signifie only that worship which is proper to god. . that sacrifice is not properly an act of adoration , but of another kind distinct from it . . that there is no one external act of adoration , which is proper to latria , or the worship peculiar to god. but to what end were there any such thing as publique religious worship among men , on the account of gods peculiar soveraignty over us , if the acts of that worship be not appropriated to himself ? for there is no necessity of publique worship for the acts of the mind , which are performed out of the view of others . what is publique must be external ; and if there be any necessity that god be publickly owned and worshipped by us , as our only lord and almighty maker of heaven and earth ; the very same natural reason which directs to this , doth likewise shew , that what is intended for his publique worship , ought to be communicated to none else besides him . neither is it enough , that he have the first and chief place in worship , which only implies a superiority of order and degree ; but since he is acknowledged to be infinitely above all creatures , and to be the sole creator and governour of the world , the acts of worship to him as such , ought to be peculiar , and appropriated wholly to himself : for if other beings come to have a share , although secondarily , with him in the acts of his worship , they ought to have a share with him in the proper reason of that worship , i. e. in the creation and government of the world . but if creation and providence be the foundations of divine worship , and those do suppose infinite and incommunicable perfections , on what pretence of reason can beings infinitely distant from god , come to have a share in the acts of religious worship , which were purposely designed for the acknowledgement of such a being , whom the most excellent creatures are bound to adore as well as we ? is not this joyning subjects together with their soveraign in the highest expressions of our duty to him ? what prince in the world would bear such an affront from an embassadour of a foreign prince , as that in a publique audience , when he is introduced on purpose to express the honour that is to be given to the person of the king , he should use all the same expressions of it , to his servants and subjects who stand about him , that he doth to himself ? would this be a just excuse , that these were done to him in the first place , and only secondarily to his servants ? and if this would not be born by one prince from the subject of another , how much less from his own ? and if princes will not bear this from their subjects , who are of the same nature with themselves ; how can men be so vain to imagine the great god will bear it from his creatures , to have no publique religious act of worship given to himself , but what is given to those who are confessed to be infinitely distant from him ? it is not the supposition of excellency in them will ever justifie this : for let their excellency be never so great , it is still but a created excellency : and their excellency can never make them so much above us , as their being created makes them inferiour to god : and in acts of religious worship , we ought not so much to consider our distance from them , as their distance from god. let them be never so much above us , they are creatures still , and that sets them at an infinite distance from him , whereas all their excellencies can make them but finitely distant from us . let them be never so excellent , they still worship the same god that we do , and with the most profound adoration of him ; and if their excellency be consistent with their worship of a being infinitely above them , it is not sufficient to make them an object of adoration to us . we are willing to give them the utmost , their excellency requires from us ( provided , we be well assured of it ) and that is , a mighty esteem of them , and a readiness to express our honour in celebrating their praises , and commending them as heroick patterns of goodness , and ( supposing them actually present with us ) the expressing our esteem in the highest tokens of respect that are used among men : thus far we go ; and if those beings are such , as we suppose them , they would not have us to go farther ; but ( as the angel said to st. iohn ) they would bid us , worship god. but we dare not use the same solemn acts of religious worship in places and at times set apart for the service of the great god , to any of his creatures how excellent soever they be : for this is an encroachment upon the divine majesty , and as cajetan expresses it , a taking away from him , as much as in us lies , that peculiar excellency whereby he is god over all , blessed for evermore . we dare not apply those things to the worship of his creatures , which god hath ever appropriated to his own worship as the proper acts of it ; such as sacrifice , incense , &c. we dare not give that honour to his servants , which god hath forbidden to be given to any creature , such as incurvation to images , invocation of persons , &c. we dare not express our adoration of any created being in such a way as doth suppose those perfections which can be only in an uncreated being , as knowing the desires of our hearts , help in trouble , pardon of sin , strength in grace , and receiving to glory ; we dare not make the outward acts of religious worship common to god and his creatures , for that would be repugnant to the nature and design of religious worship , which was intended for a publique manifestation of the peculiar service we owe to the creator and governour of the world. and herein those of the church of rome fall short of the heathens themselves , who had so great an apprehension of the necessity of some appropriate acts of divine worship , that some of them have chosen to die , rather than to give them to what they did not believe to be god. we have a remarkable story to this purpose in arrian and curtius concerning callisthenes . alexander arriving at that degree of vanity , as to desire to have divine worship given him , and the matter being started out of design among the courtiers , either by anaxarchus , as arrian , or cleo the sicilian , as curtius saith ; and the way of doing it proposed , viz. by incense , and prostration ; callisthenes vehemently opposed it , as that which would confound the difference of humane and divine worship , which had been preserved inviolable among them . the worship of the gods had been kept up in temples , with altars , and images , and sacrifices , and hymns , and prostrations , and such like ; but it is by no means fitting , saith he , for us to confound these things , either by lifting up men to the honours of the gods , or depressing the gods to the honours of men . for , neither would alexander suffer any man to usurp his royal dignity by the votes of men ; how much more justly may the gods disdain for any man to take their honours to himself ? which freedom of speech cost callisthenes his life , a little after . and it appears by plutarch , that the greeks thought it a mean and base thing for any of them , when sent on an embassy to the kings of persia , to prostrate themselves before them , because this was only allowed among them in divine adoration ; therefore , saith he , when pelopidas and ismenias were sent to artaxerxes , pelopidas did nothing unworthy , but ismenias let fall his ring to the ground , and stooping for that , was thought to make his adoration ; which was altogether as good a shift as the iesuits advising the crucifix to be held in the mandarins hands while they made their adorations in the heathen temples in china . conon refused to make his adoration , as a disgrace to his city ; and isocrates accuseth the persians for doing it , because herein they shewed , that they despised the gods rather than men , by prostituting their honours to their princes . herodotus mentions sperchies and bulis , who could not with the greatest violence be brought to give adoration to xerxes , because it was against the law of their country to give divine honour to men . valerius maximus saith , the athenians put timagoras to death for doing it ; so strong an apprehension had possessed them , that the manner of worship which they used to their gods , should be preserved sacred and inviolable . and yet artabanus in plutarch , when he was perswading themistocles to do it , made use of the very argument of a relative latria , viz. that he was to do it to the king as the image of god that preserves all things ; which according to t. g. and his brethren was a sufficient salvo for it . for why may not a prince have this relative latria given him , with far better reason than a senseless image , in as much as he represents god with much more authority and majesty than any image can do ? i confess cajetan hath in some measure proposed this objection , but he only puts it as to man in general as made after the image of god , viz. why god may not be worshipped in that image as well as in an inanimate one ? and the answer he gives , shews how much he was troubled with it ; for he distinguishes of a twofold image , viz. one that is capable of no honour for it self ; and another that is , viz. a rational image such as man is ; now , saith he , we may give a relative latria , where the image is not capable of honour for it self ; but not where it is . for what reason , i beseech him ? i had thought , the more lively the representation had been ; and the more excellent the image , it had been the greater motive to worship what was represented by it . otherwise the more deformed and unlike the image is , the fitter it were for worship ; and i should think there were no comparison between the representation of god , in the perfections of mens minds , and their dominion over the inferiour creatures , and that which is made of dull and senseless matter : and among men no image so fit to represent god , as that of a mighty prince sitting upon his throne of majesty , which strikes more awe and terrour into mens minds , than the picture of an old man upon a church wall : and notwithstanding what t. g. hath admirably said on behalf of pictures ( which i shall consider in its due place ) i am still apt to think , that the nearer any being approaches to god in majesty and wisdom , it doth give more lively and powerful representation of him , as an object of worship ; why then may not we worship god in the person of a great prince , better than in a curious image or picture ? all the sense that i can find by way of answer in cajetan is this , that we ought not to worship god in a man although he be the image of god , to avoid the danger of giving divine worship to a creature : very well ! but is it not a greater fault to give divine worship to mans creature than to gods ? for a picture at the best is but the work of mens hands . but he cannot deny , that in such a case the latria passes to god , through such an image as a man or a prince is ; but because of the danger men are in of giving divine worship to creatures , they ought to abstain from it . very good ! but is there not as much danger of mens worshipping stocks , and stones , and images , as there is in worshipping princes or mankind ? and if a relative latria will not justifie the one , much less certainly can it do the other . but of this hereafter . the thing i observe now is , how careful even the heathens have been , notwithstanding they heard of the same pleas that are used in the church of rome , to preserve the customs of external adoration peculiar to their gods. . i come now to shew , that god by his law hath appropriated some external acts of worship to himself , so as to make it unlawful to use them to any other besides him . maimonides saith , that to make a man guilty of idolatry by the law of moses , it was necessary that he were convicted of one of these two things . . either that he did use the acts of worship proper to the idol , therefore the sanhedrin were to enquire not only whom men worshipped , but in what manner . or , . that he made use of any of those acts of worship to an idol , which god hath appropriated to himself , for which he instanceth in incurvation , sacrifice , incense , and oblations : and adds , that whatever worship was made proper to god by their law , the using of that to an idol , although it were not the proper worship of that idol , made a man guilty of idolatry . here are two things farther to be enquired into . . what those acts are which god did appropriate to himself ? . how far gods appropriating them to himself doth now concern us ? i. e. whether the church hath any liberty to alter the nature of those acts , so as to make any to be common to god and his creatures , which were then peculiar to god ? . what those acts are which god did appropriate to himself ? i. e. which he commanded to be used to himself , and did forbid to be used to any other ? . and of these , the most indisputable between us and our adversaries is sacrifice . for they confess in words , that sacrifice is so peculiar to god that it ought not to be offered to any else ; because the words of scripture are so plain to this purpose . he that sacrificeth to any god save unto the lord only , shall surely be put to death : which words are cited by aquinas to this purpose ; and my adversary t. g. doth confess , that the offering of sacrifice not only by the custom of the church but of all mankind , as st. austin teacheth , is appropriated to signifie the absolute worship due only to god. it seems so much the more strange to me , that after this he should contend , that saints may have a share in the honour of sacrifices , but he pretends , that all that their church means by it , is no more than giving god thanks by a sacrifice offered to him for the vertues and prerogatives ( for instance ) he bestowed on the blessed virgin , although the sacrifice be offered to god and not to her . what the sense of their church is , will be best understood by the practice of it . in the missal of sarum , a. d. . and in the portiforium of sarum , . and in an old sarisbury missal , a. d. . i find this prayer to be used by the priest , when he offers the sacrifice , as the express words of the rubrick are , suscipe sancta trinitas hanc oblationem quam ego indignus peccator offero in honore tuo , b. mariae & omnium sanctorum pro peccatis & offensionibus meis , & pro salute vivorum & requie omnium fidelium defunctorum . in nomine patris & filii & spiritus sancti acceptum sit omnipotenti deo hoc sacrificium novum . in the old and new roman missal , and the missal of paris , . and the missal of lyons , it is thus , suscipe sancta trinitas hanc oblationem quam tibi offerimus ob memoriam passionis , resurrectionis , & ascensionis iesu christi domini nostri ; & in honore b. mariae semper virginis , & b. iohannis baptistae , & sanctorum apostolorum , pauli , & istorum & omnium sanctorum , ut illis proficiat ad honorem , nobis autem ad salutem , & illi pro nobis intercedere dignentur in coelis , quorum memoriam facimus in terris , per christum dominum nostrum . in the old monastick missals , mentioned by cardinal bona , the offertory ran in this form , suscipe sancta trinitas unus deus , hanc oblationem quam tibi offerimus in memoriam beatae passionis , resurrectionis , & ascensionis domini nostri iesu christi , & in honorem b. mariae semper virginis , genitricis ejusdem domini nostri , & omnium sanctorum & sanctarum , coelestium virtutum , & vivificae crucis , ut eam acceptare digneris , pro nobis peccatoribus , & pro animabus omnium fidelium defunctorum . in the ambrosian missal , it runs thus , et suscipe sancta trinitas hanc oblationem quam tibi offerimus pro regimine & custodia atque unitate catholicae fidei , & pro veneratione quoque b. dei genitricis mariae , omniumque simul sanctorum tuorum ; & pro salute & incolumitate famulorum , famularumque tuarum , &c. in the old missal of illyricus , published by cardinal bona , the form in other things agrees with the roman missal , only after iesu christi , it hath , & in honorem sanctorum tuorum , qui tibi placuerunt ab initio mundi , & eorum quorum hodie festivitas celebratur , & quorum hic nomina & reliquiae habentur , ut illis proficiat ad honorem , nobis autem ad salutem , &c i desire to know of t. g. whether this be no more than giving god thanks for their vertues , when a propitiatory sacrifice is offered up to god for their honour ? and that their honour may be increased by it , and at the same time to pray , that they would intercede with god for them . what is joyning creatures together with god in the honour of sacrifice , if this be not ? how comes a propitiatory sacrifice for sin , and that both for the quick and the dead , to be turned into a sacrifice of thanksgiving for the graces of a particular saint ? how strangely would it have founded among the iews , for a man to have offered a sin-offering to give god thanks for the faith of abraham , or the meekness of moses , or the wisdom of solomon ? and at the same time when this sacrifice was pretended to be offered only to god , to pray that they would intercede with god for him . is not the address to be made to him to whom the sacrifice is offered ? and yet we find , that this is not only practised but justified and defended in the roman church ; for bellarmin not only saith , that the mass of st. peter is so called , because it is offered to god to give thanks for the glory conferred on him , but because he is at the same time called upon as a patron and advocate with god. but saith t. g. honour is nothing but a testimony or protestation of some excellency ; and whether thanks be given to god by words or by sacrifice for the gifts and graces he hath bestowed on such a person , it is an evident protestation of such excellency in that person , and consequently for his honour , though both words and sacrifice be directed to god and not to him . who denies , that it is for the honour of a person to praise god for him ? but the question is , if sacrifice be appropriated to the sole honour of god , how the honour of saints comes to be declared by it ? for a man whose understanding is not shrunk up as beggars arms use to be , might have stretched it at least so far , as to have considered , that sacrifice being an external sign , there are two things to be looked at in it . . the signification of that sign . . the term to which it is directed . now the main thing to be regarded in it as to honour , is not the direction of it to its term by the mind , for that is secret ; but the external signification of it among men . for , saith aquinas , the reason of sacrifices is , that men by some sensible external actings should make a protestation by offering them to god , of the subjection and honour that is due to him : now if this sign may be made use of to signifie any other thing , it is not a peculiar and appropriate sign only for that purpose to testifie our subjection to god. and to return the kindness of his twitch , by an example far more pertinent to the purpose than his was ; how strange would it have been thought among the persians , where prostration was appropriated to their king as a sign of subjection to him alone , for a man to have said to him , sir , i fall down before you in honour of the captain of your guards ; or of such and such a minister of state : would the king have taken this for an appropriate act of honour to himself ? so that though he falls down only to the king , if he declares he intends it for the honour of another , he takes away by his words , the significancy of his action : thus if sacrifice be so appropriate to the honour of god , that it cannot signifie any thing else ; then it is nonsense to sacrifice to god for the honour of another ; if it may signifie any thing else , and be so used in the church of rome , then they do not reserve so much as sacrifice for an appropriate sign of the absolute worship of god. . religious adoration is appropriated to god in scripture ; for so the command runs , as it is explained by our saviour , thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve . they who would make the restrictive particle belong to the latter clause and not to the first , do not attend to the reason of our saviours using these words , which was to reject the devils temptation about adoration ; and it would not have had force against the temptation , if men were more at liberty as to worship , than they are as to service . and it is observed by those who have most considered the importance of the hebrew word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that it doth not signifie an act of the mind , but of the body , either by incurvation or prostration . although adoration be sometime taken for all the external acts of religious worship , as iohn . . acts . . yet the general signification of it , is that act of religious worship which is performed by the motion of the body . and so adoration is accounted in the schools one particular part of proper religious worship ; aquinas , puts it before sacrifice , and makes that place of our saviour the foundation of it ; and among external signs , he makes this the greatest ; and that it is intended not barely to declare our inward reverence , but that by the use of this , our inward devotion may be more excited , it being natural for us to proceed from sensible to intellectual acts . and it is observed by ysambertus , a late professor of divinity in the sorbon , that where ever the scripture speaks of adoration , it is alwayes expressed by some external sign , as a note of subjection in him that adores towards him that is adored : ( which observation if understood of a corporeal sign , is not intended for angels , but men , for adoration is in scripture attributed to angels . ) and he well observes , as to the sense of aquinas , that he must make the external sign necessary to the formal act of adoration , because he ranks prayer among the internal acts , which he could do upon no other reason , but because prayer may have its compleat act in the mind , which he supposed that adoration could not ; and withal he proves ( contrary to the opinion of suarez ) that the internal acts of vertue , though designed by the mind , as a token of submission to god , cannot be the proper acts of adoration , because they are not adequate and proportionable signs to express our submission to god. and therefore damascen defined adoration to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a sign of subjection , and anastasius bishop of antioch , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an outward expression of honour , by which , saith vasquez , he doth not mean any bare honour , but that which implies subjection . but damascen yet more fully saith , it is a sign , not barely of honour , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of submission and humility , not as it is taken for that particular vertue , whereby an inordinate value of our selves is repressed , but as it implies an acknowledgement of gods superiority and dominion over us . and it is observable that st. augustine , where he speaks of those things which are most peculiar to the worship of god , he joyns adoration and sacrifice together . putaverunt quidam deferendum angelis honorem vel adorando vel sacrificando , qui debetur deo ; & eorum sunt admonitione prohibiti , jussique sunt haec ei deferre cui uni fas esse noverunt ; whereby we see he makes external adoration as peculiar to god as sacrifice ; and ludovicus vives there saith , that he meant by the angel that refused adoration , the angel that forbad st. john , and bad him to worship god. which makes me wonder , that t. g. should make the act of adoration aequivocal , and only sacrifice according to st. augustin , to be appropriated to signifie the absolute worship of god ; for st. augustin joyns both together , and makes one as unlawfal to be given to any creature as the other . how then comes st. augustin's authority to be quitted for the one , and so greedily embraced for the other ? is it that sacrifice doth of it self more properly signifie our inward and total subjection of our selves to god than the other doth ? but it would become t. g's learning to inform us in this matter : since the best learned of their divines do confess , that sacrifice doth not naturally signifie any worship of god but only by the imposition of men , and that which it signifies , say they , is gods being author of life and death , and if we take away this imposition it contains nothing of divine worship in it ; so suarez , who saith , he follows st. augustin in it . how comes the destruction of any creature under our command to signifie the inward subjection of our selves to god ? what pleasure can we conceive the almighty should take in seeing us to destroy his creatures for his sake ? our minds may be as far from submitting to god , as these things are of themselves from signifying such a submission . nay how comes a sacrifice to stand so much in our stead , that because we take away the life of that , therefore we own god as our lord ? it might rather of it self signifie that we have the power of life and death over beasts , than that god hath it over us : yet all that sacrifice signifies , saith vasquez , is , that god is acknowledged thereby to be the author of life and death ; and to this end , saith ysambertus , it is necessary that the thing be destroyed , because the reason of sacrifice lies in the destruction of a thing offered to god. be it so : but of all things in the world , it would never have come into my mind , nor i think into any mans well in his senses , to offer up god himself unto god as a sacrifice , in order to the testifying the devoting of our selves unto him ; and yet this , after all their talk , comes to be that external sacrifice which is the only appropriate sign of the absolute worship of god , viz. the sacrifice of the mass , wherein the priest is believed , to offer up god himself under the species of bread and wine to the eternal god in token of our subjection to him . methinks yet it were somewhat more reasonable to offer up brute creatures that are under us , than god that is so infinitely above us ; and such is the weakness of my understanding , that this seems to be rather an argument of our power over god , than of our subjection to him. but since the formal reason of a sacrifice is said to lie in the destruction of it , good lord ! what thoughts must these men have in their minds , ( if they have any ) when they think it in their power , first to make their god by speaking five words ; then to offer him up as a sacrifice ; then to suppose him destroyed , and all this to testifie their submission to god! i want words to express the intolerable blasphemy and absurdity of these things . yet this , saith t. g. is so appropriate a sign of the absolute worship of god , that that religion which admits no external visible sacrifice , must needs be deficient in the most signal part of the publick worship of god. what external visible sacrifice have you that we have not , besides that of god himself whom you believe to be personally present as the object of divine worship under the species of bread and wine ? and yet when you have pleaded so much for this presence to justifie your adoration , you then make a sacrifice of him ; and that he may be so , you grant it is necessary there be some destruction of what was before , i. e. ( if to the purpose ) of him that was the sacrifice , otherwise the species are made the sacrifice , and not the body and blood of christ. but suppose you only make him a sacrifice , as to his body and blood , and not as to his divine nature ; what becomes then of the body and blood of christ ? for , it must be destroyed to make a sacrifice ; where , how , by what means comes the body and blood of christ to be destroyed ? when you say , it is there without the qualities of a body , that it cannot be seen , or felt , or tasted ; and yet is capable of being destroyed : suppose all this be passed over , how comes the offering up the very body and blood of christ to god to signifie our absolute worship of him ? will nothing else satisfie to testifie , that we are his subjects , unless we offer up to him the body and blood of his own son ? is this indeed the most signal part of divine worship , which we must be deficient in , if we have it not ? we do from our souls praise god for that unvaluable sacrifice , the son of god was pleased to make of his own life , when he was incarnate in our nature ; we do frequently commemorate this sacrifice of his according to his own institution ; and in the doing of that , we offer up our selves unto him as a reasonable service ; we adore , and magnify him for all his mercies , especially the sending of his son to die for us , as the greatest of all : but we dare not let it enter into our thoughts , that we should ever eat or swallow down the very body and blood of christ ; and then pretend we have offered it up to god as a sacrifice , and that in token of our absolute worship of him. but setting aside the nature of this sacrifice , which is the only external and visible sign of appropriate worship to god , they pretend to have ; i desire yet to know how a sacrifice doth come to signifie this absolute worship more than adoration ? not by nature , for the lowly submission of our bodies seems more naturally to signifie the behaviour of our minds , than anything without us can do ? if it be by institution , it must be either gods or mans ; if mans , then either offering sacrifice to a creature is idolatry , or not : if not , then giving absolute worship to a creature is no idolatry ; if it be , then it is idolatry to make use of the outward signs of divine worship which mankind have agreed upon , to any thing else but god. if it be said to be gods institution ; then it follows , that the applying any outward signs of worship which god hath appropriated to himself , to any creature , is idolatry ; which is as much as i desire , for then it will equally hold for religious adoration ; especially if the principle of arriaga hold true true , that the value of sacrifice lies in the act of adoration performed by it . but t. g. pleads , that the act of adoration is equivocal , that is , that we read in scripture , that it hath been given to men as well as to god , and therefore cannot be such an appropriate sign of divine worship . to this i have already answered , by distinguishing the act , and the signification of it ; the external act i grant may be performed upon several grounds ; as . civil subjection , as by nathan to david , kings . . . civil respect , as by abraham to the children of heth , gen. . . . religious respect , or as some call it , moral reverence , i. e. out of an opinion of great sanctity , without superiority , as nebuchadnezzar to daniel , dan. . . and so abraham bowed to the angels , gen. . . if he knew them to be what they were ; but if not , as appears more probable both of him and lot , by heb. . . then it was only an expression of civil respect to them . . out of a sudden transport , as st. iohn did to the angel twice , which he would not have done a second time , if he had considered his being checked for the first , rev. . . . , . now if these things may by their circumstances and occasions be apparently differenced from each other , and from that religious adoration which god doth require to be given to himself , then there can be no reason from thence to make the signification of external adoration to be equivocal . there is the same nature in these acts that there is in words of different significations ; which being taken in general are of an equivocal sense , but being considered with all their particular circumstances they have their sense so restrained and limited , that it is easie to discern the one from the other . that we call therefore religious adoration , which is performed with all the circumstances of religious worship , as to time , place , occasion , and such like ; as if men used prostration to any thing within the courts of the temple , ( wherein some of the iews thought that posture only lawful ; ) if it were done in the time of sacrifice , or devotion ; if the occasion were such as required no respect of any other kind , as when the devil demanded of christ to fall down and worship him ; in these and such like circumstances we say adoration hath the determin'd signification of religious worship , and is an appropriate sign of it , by gods own institution . thence the psalmist saith , o come let us worship and bow down , let us kneel before the lord our maker ; and god forbids bowing down to and worshipping any graven image , or similitude ; where the bowing down is one act of worship , and was so esteemed by the common consent of mankind , as might be easily made appear by the several customs of external adoration , that have been used in all parts of the world , and it might for the universality of the practice of it , vye with sacrifice . so that on this account , as well as the proper signification of it , adoration ought to be esteemed as significant and peculiar a sign of absolute worship as sacrifice . there are only two things that seem yet to make this adoration not appripriate to god , ( for the instances of balaam and saul are not worth mentioning ) and those are , ioshua's religious adoration of the angel that appeared to him ; and the adoration that the iews performed towards the ark ; the latter is easily answered , the ark being only a symbol of the divine presence of gods own appointing , towards which they were to direct their adoration ; ( but of this at large , when i come to the worship of images ) ; the other cannot be denied to be religious worship , but we are to consider , what aquinas saith to this place , that it may be understood of the absolute worship of god , who did appear and speak in the person of an angel. and st. athanasius expresly saith , that god did speak in an angel to moses at the burning bush , when moses was bid to put off his shooes ; as ioshua was now ; and by the description on of him , as captain of the host of the lord , it is apparent ioshua looked not on him as an ordinary angel , but as the angel of whom god said , that he should go before them , and whom they were bound to obey ; and by comparing the places in exodus together , where god afterwards threatens to send an angel , and moses would not be satisfied till god said his presence should go with them ; it is evident this angel of his presence was more than a meer angel ; and therefore the fathers generally suppose it was the eternal son of god who appeared in the person of an angel , as petavius hath at lage proved : and is sufficiently manifest from hence , that they make use of adoration as a certain argument to prove , that christ was not a creature ; which argument were of no force at all , if they did not believe , that adoration was an appropriate sign of that absolute worship which belongs only to god : and therefore they observe that when meer angels appeared , they refused adoration , as the angels that appeared to manoe and st. iohn ; but when adoration is allowed or commanded , it was the divine nature appearing in the person of an angel. . the erection of temples and altars , is another appropriate sign of divine worship which i need not go about to prove from scripture , since it is confessed by our adversaries . ad latriam pertinent templa & altaria , sacerdotia , sacrificia , festivitates , ceremoniae , & hujusmodi quae soli deo sunt exhibenda ; saith durandus mimatensis from innocentius . and the applying these things to any but god , he makes to be idolatry . bellarmin joyns temples and altars together with sacrifice as peculiar to god ; templum , saith cardinal bona , est domus numini sacra , a house sacred to god ; and yet bellarmin had the confidence to lay down this proposition , sacrae domus non solum deo , sed etiam sanctis recte aedificantur & dedicantur : and he is not satisfied with the answer of some moderns , that say , that temples cannot properly be erected to any , but god , any more than sacrifice can be offered to any but him ; but because there are many temples dedicated to god , that they may be distinguished from each other , they have their denomination from particular saints , ( which is an answer we find no fault with , if they do not proceed to the worship and invocation of those saints to whose memory the churches are dedicated , as the particular patrons of it , ) but bellarmin hath found out a subtlety beyond this ; for he saw well enough this would not reach home to their case , and therefore he saith , that sacred places are truely and properly built to saints ; but how ? not as they are temples , but as they are basilicae ; for , saith he , temples have a particular relation to sacrifice , but basilicae have not : and he confesses it would be idolatry to erect them as temples to saints , but not as they are basilicae . this is a distinction without any difference ; for isidore , who certainly well understood the signification of these words , as used among christians , saith , nunc autem ideo divina templa basilicae nominantur , quia ibi regi omnium deo cultus & sacrificia offeruntur : and that which we insist upon , is not , the names that churches are called by , nor the preservation of the memories of saints in them , but the erecting them to saints as places for the worship and invocation of them . and the vanity of this distinction of temples from basilicae , because temples relate only to sacrifice , will easily appear , if we consider that the proper signification of templum was domicilium , as turnebus observes , which is that which varro calls templum naturâ ; and in this sense , he saith , naevius called the heaven , templum magnum iovis altitonantis ; and from thence it was applyed to any place consecrated by the augurs , and so by degrees , was taken for any sacred place that was set apart for divine worship ; for that was it which made them sacred , sacra sunt loca , saith isidore , divinis cultibus instituta . either therefore they must say , there is no proper worship of god but sacrifice , or the notion of a temple cannot be said only to refer to sacrifice . and among the iews , our b. saviour hath told us , that the temple had relation to prayer as well as sacrifice , my house shall be called a house of prayer . would it not have been a pleasant distinction among the iews , if any of them had dedicated a temple to abraham , with a design to invocate him there , and make him the patron of it , for them to have said , they built it as a temple to god , but as a basilica to abraham ; for they sacrificed there only to god , ( or to god for the honour of abraham ) but they invocated abraham as the particular patron of it ? this is that therefore we charge them with , upon their own principles , that when they dedicate churches to particular saints as the patrons of them , and in order to the solemn invocation of them there , they do apply that which themselves confess to be an appropriate sign of divine worship to creatures , and consequently by their own confession are guilty of idolatry . neither can it be pleaded by them , that their churches and altars are only dedicated to the honour of god for the memory of a particular saint ; for they confess , that it is for the solemn invocation of that saint . and with all in the form of dedication in the pontifical , there is more implied , as appears by these two prayers at the consecration of the altar ; the first when the bishop stands before the altar in these words , deus omnipotens , in cujus honorem , ac beatissimae virginis mariae & omnium sanctorum , ac nomen & memoriam sancti tui n. nos indigni altare hoc consecramus , &c. the other , after the bishop hath with his right thumb dipped in the chrism , made the sign of a cross upon the front of the altar , majestatem tuam , domine , humiliter imploramus , ut altare hoc sacrae unctionis libamine ad suscipienda populi tui munera inunctam potenter bene . dicere , & sanctificare digneris , ut quod nunc à nobis sub tui nominis invocatione , in honorem beatissimae virginis mariae , & omnium sanctorum , atque in memoriam sancti tui n. &c. where we see , besides the memory of the particular saint to whom the altar is dedicated ; the honour of the b. virgin and the saints are joyned together with the honour of god in the general dedication of it . by the pontifical , no altar is to be consecrated without reliques , which the night before , the bishop is to put into a clean vessel for that purpose with three grains of frankincense , and then to seal it up ; which being conveniently placed before the church door , the vigils are to be celebrated that night before them , and the nocturn and the mattins , for the honour of the saints whose the reliques are ; and when the reliques are brought into the church , this is one of the antiphona's , surgite sancti dei , de mansionibus vestris , loca sanctificate , plebem benedicite , & nos homines peccatores in pace custodite . the form of consecration of the altar it self , is this , sanctificetur hoc altare in honorem dei omnipotentis , & gloriosae virginis mariae atque omnium sanctorum , & ad nomen ac memoriam sancti n. in china , trigautius saith in the chappel they had there , they had two altars , one to our saviour , the other dedicated to the b. virgin , without any distinction at all . in the speech the bishop makes to the people he utterly overthrows bellarmins distinction of templum and basilica ; for , he saith , nullibi enim quam in sacris basilicis , domino offerri sacrificium debet . it seems then basilica is taken with a respect to sacrifice as well as templum : and then he declares that he hath dedicated this basilica in honorem omnipotentis dei , beatae mariae semper virginis , & omnium sanctorum , ac memoriam sancti n. so that basilica is here taken with a respect to god , and not meerly to the saints ; although they joyn them together with god in the honour of dedication . let us now compare the practice of the roman church in this matter , with the argument which the fathers made use of , to prove the divinity of the holy ghost , because we are said to be his temple . if we are said , saith s. basil , to be his temple because he is worshipped by us and dwells in us , then it follows that he is god , for we are commanded to worship and serve god alone . where it is plain s. basil takes a temple with a respect to worship and not meerly to sacrifice . a temple belongs only to god and not to a creature , saith s. ambrose , therefore the holy ghost is god , because we are his temple . this is peculiar to the divine nature , saith s. cyril , to have a temple to dwell in . if we were to build a temple , saith s. augustin , to the holy ghost , in so doing , we should give him the worship proper to god , and he must be god to whom we give divine worship , for we must worship the lord our god , and him only must we serve : the same argument he urges in several other places ; a temple , saith he , was never erected but either to the true god , as solomon did , or to false gods as the heathens ; and this argument from our being said to be the temple of the holy ghost , he thinks is stronger , than if adoration had been said to be given to it ; for this is so proper an act of divine worship to erect a temple , that if we should do it to the most excellent angel , we should be anathematized from the church of god. hoc nunc sit quibuslibet divis , ( saith erasmus there in the margin . ) this is every where now done to saints , at which petavius is very angry ; and saith , they do it not to the saints per se & praecipué . but what becomes then of the argument of the fathers , which supposes the erecting a temple to be such a peculiar act of adoration , that it cannot be applied to any creature , no not secondarily ? for then the opposers of the divinity of the holy ghost might have easily answered s. augustins argument after the same fashion , viz. that we were said to be the temple of the holy ghost , not per se & praecipuè , but only secondarily , as it was the divine instrument of purifying the souls of men . from hence we see , how unanimously the fathers looked on the dedication of temples and altars , as an appropriate sign of that absolute worship we owe to god ; and that not meerly as an appendix to sacrifice , but as it contains in it such an act of adoration as is peculiar to god. . the burning of incense as a token of religious worship . for otherwise , it is of the nature of the outward act of adoration , and may be done on meerly civil accounts ; and so far t. g. was in the right when he said , that burning incense is a ceremony of the like nature with bowing , i. e. it may be accommodated to several uses ; but as i have proved that religious adoration is a peculiar act of divine worship , so i shall now do , concerning the burning of incense when it is used as a token of religious worship . if there were any difference under the law between the altar of burnt offerings , and the altar of incense , this latter seems to be more particularly appropriated to the worship of god. for the high priest is not only commanded to burn upon it perpetual incense before the lord ; but it is said , to be most holy to the lord ; and it stood in a more holy place . and we see by our saviours interpretation of the precept of worship , although the restrictive particle were not in the words of the law , yet he shews us that it was in the sense of it ; and that certainly is to be understood , where a thing is said to be most holy to god , i. e. appropriated to himself after a peculiar manner : and we have seen by maimonides that incense is joyned with sacrifice ; so that a person is made by their law as guilty of idolatry , if he burns incense to an idol , as if he offered sacrifice . but we need not depend on the iews testimony in this matter ; for the scripture is express in it , where it speaks of hezekiah's breaking in pieces the brazen serpent that moses had made , for in those days the children of israel did burn incense to it . bellarmine cannot deny , that burning of incense was a sacrifice among the iews , and that was the reason that hezekiah brake the brazen serpent in pieces ; but , he saith , it is not a sacrifice now . but how comes it to change its nature ? hath it lost any part of its definition ? if not , hath the church power to make that which was a sacrifice to become none ? i. e. to take away an appropriate sign of gods absolute worship ? for so they acknowledge sacrifice to be . paulus maria quarti in his late commentaries on the rubricks of the missal confesses that all the material parts of the definition of a sacrifice agree to the burning of incense in the roman church , for it is an oblation made to god for his honour by the change of a sensible thing , but , he saith , from suarez that it is not a sacrifice among them , but only an accidental appendix to a sacrifice : and might not the same have been said among the iews ? and yet himself afterwards grants , that it is a part of religious worship as honour is thereby given to those that are incensed ; and is to be determined according to the nature of the object ; if it be given to god , it is latria , if to saints , it is dulia , &c. it seems now , it is become more than an appendix , being a proper act of worship ; but all their care is to avoid its being a sacrifice , because they give it to saints and images , and when they are off from that difficulty they think they can dispose of it as they please . catharinus grants , that burning of incense had the proper nature of a sacrifice among the iews ; and that the reason why hezekiah brake in pieces the brazen serpent was because they did not direct their incense to the thing represented by it , but terminated their worship on the sign : but ( . ) it seems then , the scripture gives a very lame account of the reason of it , for that mentions no more but their burning incense before it , which was no fault of it self ; but only that they did not direct their intention far enough . ( . ) it seems , that sacrifice it self may be offered to an image ; for catharinus grants , that this had the nature of sacrifice , and there was no harm in the meer oblation , but only in the shortness of the intention . sanders saith , that god commanded the iews to give religious worship to the brazen serpent ; for , he saith , their very looking upon it was such ; and from thence he proves it lawful to worship images ; but cope ( or rather harpsfield ) will not allow it to be of the same nature with images , easily discerning , that the breaking of it down would make more against the worship of images , than the setting of it up ever made for them . for vasquez saith , the peoples looking upon it in order to their being healed , was no part of worship , being no token of submission ; and that god intended no worship should be given to it . and he ingenuously confesses , that when hezekiah brake it in pieces , it was not because it was worshipped for a god among them , or had the worship terminated upon it , but because the people gave the same kind of worship to it which in the roman church they give to their images : but he thinks that worship was unlawful to the iews , which is lawful to christians . and then why not the offering sacrifice to images , as well as burning of incense ? but t. g. thinks , that perhaps the smoke of the incense ( when used as a sign of religious worship ) troubles my eyes so that i cannot distinguish between the use of it , as applied to god , and as applied to his servants , or other things relating to him . it is pity t. g. had not been hezekiahs confessor , to have better informed him about the iews burning of incense before the brazen serpent ; for he would in all probability have done his endeavour to have preserved it ; and if hezekiah had pleaded the law that appropriated incense to the worship of god , he would have desired him to clear his eyes a little better ; for then he might discern that burning incense was an indifferent ceremony , and may be applied either to god or the creature ; and that the difference of these depends on the intention of the persons who do them ; now how could any man tell by the outward act what the intention of these persons was ? for all that appeared , they intended only to honour god by it in memory of the great miracles he had wrought by means of it ; and then it was so far from being evil , that it was an act of latria to god. and why should hezekiah destroy the brazen serpent , for being an occasion of gods honour ? this were fitter for senacherib , or rabshakeh to do , than one that professed to worship the true god : is not incense used daily in the temple , are not the altar and the vessels of the temple perfumed by it ? why then should the brazen serpent be profaned by that , which sanctifies other things ? therefore only advise them to direct their intention aright , and there can be no harm in the use of such an indifferent ceremony ; and let the brazen serpent stand , to excite the devotion of the people towards god in remembrance of what he did to the people of old by the means of it . but it seems hezekiah had not looked over aristotle's threshold so far as to know , that acts go whither they are intended ; and therefore he took the giving of that part of worship which god had appropriated to himself , to the brazen serpent , to be sufficient ground for the demolishing of it , without particular enquiry into the intentions of the persons . yet i must say for t. g. that he doth not seem so confident of the indifferency of this ceremony under the law ; for he saith , that it is not appropriated , at least in the new law , to the worship of god , and therefore it is in the freedom of the church to determine how and when it shall be used . if he means by the new law , the rubricks or practise of their church , he saith true ; for incense is appointed to be burnt to images and crucifixes , and reliques out of religious honour to them : but if by the new law he means the law of christ , that doth not , that i can find , make any thing that god had appropriated to himself , as a sign of his own worship , to be common to any creature with him ; but i am sure before , that burning of incense before images , was accounted one of the abominations of israel . . solemn invocation was an external act of worship appropriated to god himself . my house is the house of prayer , saith our saviour of the temple ; by which it appears that solemn invocation was then looked on as a peculiar part of divine worship . but i need not prove this , since it is granted by our adversaries , that one sort of invocation is so proper to god , that to give it to any besides him were idolatry ; which is , as t. g. expresseth it , the prayer we make to god as the author and giver of all good ; but a lower sort of invocation , he contends , may be given to saints and angels . my business here , is not to discuss the point of invocation , ( which is to be handled at large in its proper place ) but to shew , in what sense it was understood among those to whom god gave the laws of his worship , and whether this inferiour sort of invocation were thought consistent with the true worship of god. we will then suppose that in the temple of hierusalem , at the hours of prayer , the iews at the same time , and with the same outward solemnity of worship , should make their prayers first to god , to have mercy upon them ; and then immediately to make their addresses to abraham and sarah , isaac and rebecca , iacob and ioseph , and moses , and the prophets to pray for them ; whether would this have been thought agreeable to the command of worshipping god alone ? especially , if these prayers were said before the images of those persons set up in the temple : for if the law did only forbid the worship of heathen idols , there would be no repugnancy to the law in all this . what course can we now take to resolve this question ? i know but three waies of doing it . . by comparing this practice with the precept of worship . for god being to appoint the laws and rules of it , we are to enquire in the first place , what his will and pleasure was , as to this matter ; for he best knew what worship was pleasing to him . if he hath therefore appropriated all acts of religious worship to himself , as it is plain he hath done by that law , thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve , then it is unlawful to give it to any other . if it be said , they do not give the worship proper to god ; i desire to know who shall judge what is the worship proper to god , he by his law , or we by distinctions of our own making ? hath god himself made any such distinction as this is ? hath he bid men to pray to him as the author and giver of all good , but to angels or saints as mediatours and intercessors to him ? nay hath he not forbidden it , when he commands that all religious worship without distinction , be given to himself ? and where the law doth not distinguish , what presumption is it in us to do it ? . by the practise of the iewish church ; and it is granted by our adversaries , that there was no invocation of saints then used , because , say they , the saints were then only in limbo , and not in their perfect happiness , nor placed over the church as they are now ; but the iews knew of no such reason as this to hinder them ; for they believed those great saints to be in a state of perfect felicity , therefore this could be no ground to hinder them ; and withal they had so mighty a veneration for the patriarchs , and so great a dread of the divine majesty , that if it had been lawful , none would have been more ready to have made use of them as mediators than they ; for we see how ready they were to entreat moses to be a mediator between god and them ; why should not they have continued this after his death , if they had believed one to be as lawful as the other ? but although they did not invocate saints , they might do angels ; and some have attempted to prove they did , although the iews know of no such practice among them , albeit they attribute so much to the power of angels , that nothing but the fear of idolatry could restrain them ; for they believe one to be a spirit set over fire , and another over water , another over clouds , &c. as the eastern idolaters did . but did not jacob pray to the angel , gen. . . the angel that redeemed me from all evil , bless the lads ? no saith abarbinel , it was only a prayer to god , that had made use of his angel ; for , he saith , god before whom my fathers did walk , the god which fed me all my life long unto this day , the angel which redeemed me , &c. if this were an invocation of the angel , it was an invocation of him as the author and giver of all good ; which t. g. confesses to be idolatry : but abravanel parallels it with that saying of abraham , the lord god of heaven which took me from my fathers house , he shall send his angel before thee . but we need not run to the iews to clear this place , for s. athanasius supposing it to be an invocation , from thence proves , that it must be understood of the eternal son of god , for , saith he , jacob would never have joyned a creature together with god in his prayers : and s. cyrill , more generally ; who would ever pray in the name of angels ? and s. hierome in terms as large and express as may be , nullum invocare , i. e. in nos orando vocare nisi deum debemus ; we ought to invocate none by praying to them but god himself : and from thence he proves the wisdom there spoken of could be no created wisdom . so that neither iews nor christians did believe the invocation of angels to have been practised in the church of israel . . in this case it is reasonable to appeal to the sense of iewish writers , who must be presumed to understand their own customs best ; especially in respect to idolatry , which they have suffered so much for ; and they unanimously declare it to be against the sense of the law , to make saints or angels to be mediators between god and them . maimonides makes this to be consequent upon the precept against idolatry ; and makes it the fifth fundamental of the law ; that we ought to worship god alone , and to make no mediators between god and us ; neither angels , nor stars , nor elements , nor any such things , because we ought to direct all our thoughts to god alone . and abravanel in his commentary upon the fundamentals of the law , saith , their wise men interpreted that verse , the lord our god is nigh unto us in all that we call upon him for , that they should only invocate god , and not michael or gabriel , &c. and saith presently after , that this sort of worship belongs only to god , and to none else , according to the sense of their wise-men . maimonides saith , that none of the idolaters were ever so mad to think there was no god besides the idol they worshipped ; or that the figure they worshipped made and governed the world ; but they worship them as mediators between the great god and them , and so he interprets that place , mal. . . incense shall be offered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not nomini meo , but propter me : as though the incense they offered to their idols were for his sake , and so it is a meer relative latria : and he adds , that the idolaters did believe one god , but offended against the precept which commands him alone to be worshipped . the paraphrase of ionathan upon kings . . if the lord be god , follow him ; renders it thus , is not god thy lord ? therefore serve him alone : and why do ye wander after baalim in which there is no profit . but i need mention no more since a learned person of our church hath proved in a set discourse from the several testimonies of aben-ezra , kimchi , iarchi , moses bar-nachman , r. bechai , alschech , and others of greatest reputation among the iews , that they were guilty of idolatry by their law , who believed one true god , but gave religious worship to other things , as mediators between god and them . . the last i shall mention as an appropriate act of divine worship , is , making vows to god ; which the scripture hath so fully declared to belong to god , as a part of divine worship , that our adversaries do not offer to deny it . for vows are not only said to be made to god , numb . . . deut. . , . but they are joyned with sacrifice and oblations , isa. . . and therefore aquinas makes vowing one of the proper acts of latria ; and bellarmin confesses , that it is an act of religion due only to god. who could now have imagined , after such confessions to have found them in the church of rome making vows to saints as solemnly as to god himself ; so that if ever men did condemn themselves for idolatry , they seem to do it by such plain confessions of both parts , viz. that vows are a part of the worship due only to god ; and that they give this worship to creatures . here one would think we had them fast ; yet if we do not look to our selves , they will slip through our fingers , and escape . is not , say i , a vow a part of latria that is due only to god ? yes , say our adversaries , it is so . do not you make vows to saints as formally and solemnly as to god himself ; as the dominicans vow at entrance into their order , as cajetan saith , is made deo , beatae mariae , beato dominico & omnibus sanctis ? true , say they , this cannot be denied . do not you then give to the creature the worship proper to god , which you confess to be idolatry ? hold , say they , we distinguish : but about what ? about making vows to saints together with god ; for may not we make a vow to men and to god too , and who will say that is idolatry ? as for instance , may not a man vow to a. and b. that he will give a hundred pound to an hospital ? here the vow is made both to god , and to a. and b. but here a. and b. are only witnesses to the vow , but the formality of the vow lies in the promise made to god to do such things for his service and honour ; and a. and b. have no concernment in this . but may not men vow obedience to superiours , and that is more than making them witnesses ? very true , but then this obedience is the matter of the vow , or the thing that is vowed ; and in all vows of obedience , there are many limitations implyed , but there are none in the vows made to god or the saints ; but withal they vow to god and the saints that they will obey their superiours . so that their obedience to superiours is but the matter of the vow made to god and the saints . well then , say they , suppose we do make the saints the object of our vows as well as god ; yet we do not consider the saints as rational creatures ; but as they are dii participativè , as cajetan and bellarmin both say . and is not this the very answer of the heathens , that they gave divine worship to creatures , not as creatures , but as gods by way of participation ? is it indeed come out at last , that we are to look on the saints as inferiour deities , and on that account may give to them the worship proper to god ? votum non convenit sanctis , saith bellarmin , nisi quatenus sunt dii per participationem . i see truth may be smothered a long time , and kept under by violence , but it will break out at last , one way or other . i began to suspect something , when i found the master of controversies , speak of the saints being praepositi ecclesiae set over the church , but i could hardly have expected to have found them owned for inferiour deities , for what are gods by participation but such as derive their power from god , and are employed by him to take care of these lower things ? so he saith , the saints do curam gerere rerum nostrarum , take care of our affairs : and now i do not wonder to see them make vows to them , or perform any other act of religious worship to them as well as to god. but after all this ado , may we not vow to god upon a higher account , and to the saints upon a lower ? yes , no doubt ; just as a man may swear allegiance to his prince upon the account of his soveraign authority ; and to one of his subjects , as a less soveraign . for if allegiance be peculiar to soveraign authority , how can it be given to any one that hath it not ? and in this case , it is confessed that vows are a part of that worship which is proper only to god ; and how then can they be given to any else besides him ? and bellarmin confesseth , that vows in the scriptures are alwaies taken for promises made to god ; for when they were written , there was no such custom of vowing to saints . a very fair confession ! but how then comes that , which all the time when the scripture was written was peculiar to god , to become common to him and his creatures ? why may not sacrifice be made common as well as vows ? if it be in their power to change those things which god by the acknowledgement of our adversaries hath throughout the scripture made peculiar to himself . . this therefore will require a farther debate , viz. how far gods appropriating these acts of worship to himself doth concern us ? for which we are to consider , . that it is granted by t. g. to be reasonable , that there should be some external acts of worship peculiar to god ; because the reason of his worship is peculiar , as he is the supreme lord and governour of the world . . that acts of worship being designed to honour and please god , he is the fittest to determine what those peculiar acts of worship shall be . for s. augustin mentions that saying of socrates as a principle of natural reason ; unumquemque deum sic coli oportere , quo modo se ipse colendum esse praeceperit ; that god ought to be worshipped according to his own appointment . to which himself adds , that if men worship god against his will , they do not worship him , but their own imagination : and therefore they are to examine what worship this god doth reserve to himself , and what he will allow to any other . origen embraces that saying of celsus , that no inferior being ought to receive any honour against the will of the supream : and therefore he desires celsus to prove , that those daemons and heroes , which had divine worship given them among them , ever had the consent of the supreme god for it ; but it rather came from the ignorance and barbarism of mankind , which by degrees fell off from the true worship of god. and he insists upon the demonstration of this , as to all their deities , how they can shew that ever god gave way they should be worshipped . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; but we can prove , saith he , by evident arguments that it was the will of god that all men should honour the son , as they do the father . dei honorem per deum docemur , saith hilary ; we understand how to worship god by himself . s. chrysostom saith , let us learn to honour christ as he would have us , for that is the most pleasing honour , which he would have , and not that which we would give . s. peter thought to honour christ by refusing to be washed , but this was not honour , but directly contrary . which i desire t. g. to take notice of , that he may better understand , that god cannot be honoured by prohibited acts of worship , whatever the intention of the person be . but one would think this were a principle so reasonable in it self , that i need not vouch authorities for it ; yet we shall soon find that all these authorities are no more than necessary . . acts appropriated to the worship of god by his own appointment , must continue so , till himself hath otherwise declared . for who dares alter what god hath appointed ? indeed if the peculiar acts of worship had depended only on the consent of mankind , there might have been some reason for men by common consent to have changed the nature and signification of them . but since god by a law hath appropriated some parts of worship to himself , we ought in manners to know his mind , before we give away any part of that which was once peculiar to himself , to any of his creatures . . christ hath no where made it lawful to give any acts that were before appropriate to the worship of god to any creature . we do acknowledge that christ did take away by the design of his doctrine , that external ceremonial worship that was among the iews ; but he no where gives the least intimation , that any acts which before were peculiar to god , might now be given to any else besides him . nay , instead of this , he layes down the same fundamental precept of worship which was in the law , thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve , and he explains it more clearly to avoid all ambiguity in it , by expressing that restrictive particle only , which was implyed before : his apostles utterly refused any thing like divine honour being given to them , and when one of them after an ecstatical manner fell down before an angel , he was severely rebuked for it , and bidden to worship god. so that our adversaries grant , that since the incarnation the angels would not receive any adoration from men ; it seems then the gospel is so far from giving any countenance to it , that it suggests a new argument against it . . the notion of idolatry under the gospel , doth remain the same that it was before . for we find such a sin often expressed , and condemned , and cautions given against it , neither be ye idolaters , as were some of them : wherefore my dearly beloved , flee from idolatry ; little children keep your selves from idols . what notion of idolatry could they have , but what was the same , which the iews had from the law of moses ? the notion of idolatry was a new thing among the gentiles who knew no harm at all in giving divine worship to creatures ; from whence should they understand the sinfulness and the nature of it , if not from some law of god ? the apostles pretended to give no new law about it , and never corrected any mistake among the iews concerning it , as they did in other things ; therefore the notion of idolatry did continue the same , that it was before . . it was idolatry among the iews to give the appropriate acts of divine worship to any thing but god : which i have already proved from the words of the law , and the concurrent testimony of the iewish writers ; and from these things laid together , it follows , that it is idolatry for men now to give any of the fore-mentioned appropriate signs of divine worship to any thing but god : whether it be sacrifice , or adoration , or building temples and altars , or burning incense , or invocation , or making vows ; for if all these were things appropriated to the worship of god by his law , the using of these to any creature , is not meer disobedience to his law , but a giving to the creature the worship proper to god ; which on all sides is confessed to be idolatry . no , saith t. g. this proves only an extrinsecal denomination of idolatry ; for if , for instance , god hath forbidden external adoration to be given to an image , his prohibition of such worship may make it indeed to be unlawful , but hinders not the act from passing whither it was intended ; and consequently if it be intended or directed by the understanding and will to god , though after an unlawful manner , it will not fail to be terminated upon god ; and the act is an act of disobedience , or of some other sin , and called idolatry only by a metaphorical denomination , as idolatry is called adultery , and the fields are said to be joyful and sing . for , as he saith elsewhere , as no command of god can make that to be not idolatry , which is so in the nature of the thing ; so no prohibition ( if there were any ) could make that to be idolatry which hath not in it the true and real nature of idolatry . to make this matter the more clear , i shall here take away this cavil of t. g. , because it relates to the right stating of the nature of idolatry ; which is agreed on both sides to be , giving to the creature the worship due only to god ; and the controversie between us is this , whether on supposition that god hath prohibited the act of adoration to an image under the notion of idolatry ; that act be real idolatry or no ? the only pretence on their side that it was not , was this , that the intention of the person being to terminate his worship on god , and not barely on the image , it could not be real idolatry ; my business was to remove this pretence ; which i did by this argument , because god himself denyes to receive it , and therefore it must be terminated on the creature : the consequence of this t. g. rejects as utterly false , because humane acts go whither they are intended , and that the prohibition of god only makes the act unlawful , and doth not hinder its going to its object . to take off this , i undertook to shew , that where god hath prohibited any acts of worship , that worship so given cannot be said to be terminated upon him : because worship being as here understood , an outward signification of honour and respect , god making a rule for his own worship , whatever hath disobedience in it , must dishonour god ; and that were a contradiction to honour god by dishonouring him ; and therefore god giving it the denomination of idolatry , mens intentions could not excuse them from the guilt of it . for i said , whither soever men directed their intention , it is plain from scripture , that god doth interpret this kind of worship to be terminated on the image ; and therefore the israelites are said to worship the molten image , although they directed their intention to god by it . this is the short and true account of the force and design of that discourse , upon which t. g. makes such clamours of vanity , impertinency , changing the question , contradiction , downright sophistry , and what not ? save only answering the argument contained in it . but i beseech t. g. to let me understand the sophistry of this argument : for he hath not yet discovered any thing like it , but only that he did not , or would not understand the strength and design of it . i will therefore do him the kindness to make it plainer to him . in all acts of worship there are three things to be explained . . the inward intention of the mind . . the outward act of worship . . the passing of that outward act according to the inward intention ; or the terminating of it . . the inward intention of the mind , is either ( . ) actual cogitation of the object intended , or ( . ) directing the outward act to some particular end . as when i see a picture that puts me in mind of a friend , the inward intention of the mind in the act of seeing is carried to the object represented , which is no more than simple cogitation , or apprehension of the person by an idea of him in my mind ; but when i kiss that picture out of the esteem i have for him , the intention of the mind is by that outward act to shew the respect i have for his person . . the outward act of worship may be considered two wayes . . physically , and abstractly from any law , and so it depends upon the nature of the intention . . morally , as good or evil , and so it receives its denomination from the law , and not from the bare intention of the person ; as if a man steals with an intention of charity , the goodness of his intention doth not hinder the act from falling under the denomination of theft . . the passing of the outward act according to the inward intention , or the terminating of it , signifies no more out of these terms , than that it was the intention of the person who did it to honour god by doing it ; but whether this be really an act of honour to god or no , is not to be judged by the simple intention of the doer , but by the law and rule of worship which god hath given . and how can god be honoured by a palpable act of disobedience ? and how can that worship be terminated as worship upon him , who hath utterly refused it ? and supposing that god hath appropriated that outward act of worship to himself , which is given to an image , this is giving the worship to a creature , which is proper to god ; which t. g. cannot deny to be the definition of real idolatry . this was the meaning and intention of my former discourse , however t. g. lamentably mistakes and perverts it . . he saith , this is changing the state of the question ; how so ? why , forsooth , my charge was of real idolatry , and my proof is only of metaphorical idolatry , and by extrinsecal denomination . what need is there that men have a care of their words that have to do with such sophisters ! all that i said of denomination , was no more than this , the divine law being the rule of worship all prohibited wayes of worship must receive that denomination which god himself gives them : what is this to metaphorical idolatry ? if i say that unjust reproaching ones neighbour , or taking away his goods , or lying with his wife , must receive that denomination which the law gives them , doth this imply that it is only metaphorical theft and adultery , and false witness ? i do assure him , i meant very real idolatry , under that denomination ; and that upon this reason , which i have now more largely insisted upon , viz. that it belongs to god to appropriate acts of worship to himself , that god having appropriated them , they become due only to him ; and therefore they who do these acts to any besides himself , do give to the creature the worship due to god alone , which is the very definition of real idolatry t. g. contends for . but the real idolatry i meant , he saith , was that which was so antecedently to any prohibition , as appears by my contending that the church of rome doth require the giving the creature the honour due only to god. what strange arguing is this , for so a subtile a sophister ! would not any one that had looked over aristotles threshold ( to use his own phrase ) discern , that if idolatry doth consist in giving the creature the worship due only to god , as many wayes as worship may become due , idolatry may be committed ? cannot god make any of the former appropriate acts of worship to become due only to himself ? cannot he tye us to perform them to him ? and then they become due to him : and cannot he restrain us from doing them to any other ? and then they become due only to him : and is not then the doing of any of these prohibited acts to a creature , the giving to them the worship due only to god ? is the outward act of sacrifice due only to god antecedently to a prohibition or no ? if it be due only to god antecedently to his will , it is alwayes and necessarily due to him , and to him alone : and let t. g. at his leisure prove , that antecedently to any law of god , it was necessary to worship god by sacrifice , and unlawful so to worship any else besides him . if it depends on the will of god , then either it is no idolatry to offer sacrifice to a creature ; and then the sacrifice of the mass may be offered to saints or images : or if it be , then real idolatry may be consequent to a prohibition . but he thinks he hath a greater advantage against me by my saying , that any image being made so far the object of divine worship , that men do bow down before it , doth thereby become an idol , and on that account is forbidden in the second commandment . this is downright trifling ; for if i should say , that taking away a mans goods against his consent is theft , and on that account is forbidden in the eighth commandment , would any man imagine , that i must speak of theft antecedent to the command ? for it implyes no more , than that it is contrary to the command . but as it is in the case of theft , that is alwayes a sin , although the particular species of it , and the denomination of particular acts doth suppose positive laws about dominion and property ; so it is in the case of idolatry , the general nature of it is alwayes the same , viz. the giving the worship to a creature , which is due only to god , although the denomination of particular acts may depend upon positive laws , because god may appropriate peculiar acts of worship to himself , which being done by him , those acts being given to a creature , receive the denomination of idolatry , which , without those laws they would not have done . so that still the general notion of idolatry , is antecedent to positive laws , but yet the determination of particular acts , whether they are idolatry or no , do depend on the positive laws which god hath given about his worship . and if t. g. had understood the nature of humane acts , as he pretends , he would never have made such trifling objections as these : for is it not thus , in the nature of the other sins forbidden in the commandments as well as idolatry , that are supposed to be the most morally evil antecedent to any prohibition ? suppose it be murder , adultery , or disobedience to parents ; although i grant these things to have a general notion antecedently to any laws ; yet when we come to enquire into particular acts , whether they do receive those denominations or no , we must then judge by particular laws , which determine what acts are to be accounted murder , adultery , or disobedience ; as whether execution of malefactors be prohibited murder , whether marrying many wives be adultery , whether not complying with the religion of ones parents be disobedience . these things i mention , to make t. g. understand a little better , the nature of moral acts , and that a general notion of idolatry being antecedent to a prohibition , is very consistent with the determining any particular acts , ( as the worship of images , to be idolatry , ) to be consequent to that prohibition . but i perceive a particular pleasure these men take , to make me seem to contradict my self ; and here t. g. is at it , as wisely as the rest ; thus blind men apprehend nothing but contradictions in the diversity of colours by the different reflections of light ; but the comfort is , that others know that it is only their want of sight , that makes them cry out , contradictions . but wherein lyes this horrible self-contradiction ? why truly it seems i had said , that an image being made so far the object of divine worship that men do bow down before it , doth thereby become an idol , and on that account is forbidden in the second commandment . well! and what then ? where lyes the contradiction ? hold a little , it will come presently : in the mean time mark those words , on that account : but i say , that the worship which god denyes to receive , cannot be terminated on him but on the image . is this the contradiction then ? no , not yet neither . the conceit had need be good , it is so long in delivering ; but at last it comes like a thunder-showre , full of sulphur and darkness , with a terrible crack : either i mean that this worship cannot be terminated on god antecedently to the prohibition , because on that account the worship of an image is forbidden in the second commandment ; or if it cannot be terminated on the account of the prohibition , then it is not on that account forbidden . what a needless invention was that of gunpowder ! t. g. can blow a man up with a train of consequences from his own words , let him but have the laying of it . could i ever have thought , that such innocent words , as on that account , should have had so much nitre and sulphur in them ? for let any man read over those words , and see if he can find any thing antecedent to the prohibition in them . for having in that place shewed that the words idolum , sculptile , imago are promiscuously used in scripture , i presently add , by which it appears , that any image being made so far the object of divine worship that men do bow down before it , doth thereby become an idol , and on that account is forbidden in this commandment . by which it appears ( mark that ) this t. g. pares off , as not fit for his purpose ; i. e. from the sense of the word in scripture ; that any image being made so far the object of divine worship that men do bow down before it ; i. e. if men do perform that act of worship to an image which god hath forbidden the doing towards it ; what then ? then say i , it becomes an idol , for whatever hath divine worship given to it , is so ; and on that account , i. e. of its having that act of divine worship done to it by bowing before it , it is forbidden in this commandment , i. e. it comes within the reach of that prohibition ; the meaning of all which is no more than to shew , that adoration of images is idolatry by vertue of that commandment . but , thus are we put to construe and paraphrase our own words , to free our selves either from the ignorance , or malice of our adversaries . but with this fetch t.g. stands and laughs through his fingers , at the trick he hath plaid me ; and bids me , with a secret pleasure at his notable invention , to extricate my self out of this labyrinth . but doth not t. g. remember the old woman in seneca , that thought the room was dark , when she lost her sight , and no doubt would have pleased her self to think she left children in the dark , when the sun shined ? i would desire t. g. to look for the labyrinth nearer home ; for i cannot discern any , unless it should be in the perplexity of his own thoughts ; for i am unwilling to believe that he doth this with a design to play tricks ; and to fly-blow my words on purpose to make others distaste them . but what if after all this sophistry , t. g. very mercifully yields me the thing i pleaded for , viz. that the worship which god hath forbidden , cannot be terminated upon himself ? for , he saith , that if god have forbidden himself to be worshipped after such a manner , the giving him such worship will be a dishonouring of him , though the giver intend it never so much for his honour . i see t.g. after all , is a good natured man , and although he will shew a thousand tricks , rather than be thought to have it forced from him , yet let him alone , and he will give as much as a man would desire . for what could i wish for more , than he here grants ? prohibited worship , he grants , is dishonouring god , though a man intend it never so much for his honour : and worship , he yields to be an external signification of honour ; then god is honoured when he is worshipped ; how then can he be worshipped by the same act by which he is dishonoured ; for so he would be honoured by that by which he is dishonoured ; which comes much nearer to a contradiction , than any thing he charges me with . but all this while he cannot understand , that this is terminating the honour due to god on the image : i ask him then , where that honour rests ? it must be some where ; not on god , for , he confesses god is dishonoured , and therefore it can be no where else , but on the image , and consequently it is real idolatry , and not meerly metaphorical , or by extrinsecal denomination . . i now proceed to shew , that the christian church hath condemned those for idolatry who have been guilty only of applying some external appropriate acts of divine worship to other things besides god. what made the church of alexandria be so severe with origen for but holding the incense in his hands , which those about him cast from thence upon the altar ? yet for this , he was cast out of the church , saith epiphanius . in the acts of marcellinus , which baronius produces , he is condemned for offering incense in the temple of vesta , out of complyance with dioclesian ; yet he was only guilty of the external act of idolatry , saith bellarmin , having no infidelity in his mind ; and this was the common case of the thurificati , viz. of those who offered incense only out of fear ; and not with an intention to honour the idol by it ; yet these were looked on as lapsed persons , and great severities of penance were prescribed them , as appears by the canons of ancyra and many others . but if there be no external appropriate acts of divine worship ; if burning in●ense be an indifferent thing , and may be used to god , or the creature ; if idolatry depends on the intention of the mind ; i desire to know , what the fault of the thurificati was ? for if it were lawful to burn incense to a creature , what harm was there in the doing it by marcellinus at the request of the emperour , if he intended it for no more than a civil respect to him ? but it was in the temple of vesta , and therefore was divine worship . then , say i , an act in it self equivocal , becomes appropriate to divine worship , being performed with the circumstances of religion ; which is that i have been hitherto proving . but if external acts receive their denomination from the inward intention of the mind , no doubt the iesuits in china , were far more in the right than the primitive church ; and by this doctrine of directing the intention in outwards acts of worship , the lives of many thousand martyrs might have been saved . for in the roman martyrology decemb. . we find in nicomedia at one time , many thousand martyrs destroyed by dioclesian , being met together in a church , rather than they would escape by offering a little incense at their coming out : the greek menology saith , they were twenty thousand ; too great a number to lose their lives for so indifferent a ceremony , as t.g. accounts it ; might not they , when they were bid to offer incense to iove , direct their intention to the supream god ? and then t. g. would assure them , the act must pass whither it was directed ; and it was meer ignorance of the nature of humane acts for men to imagine otherwise . what great pity it is , so saving a doctrine ( to the lives at least , though not to the souls of christians ) had not been known in that age , when so many poor christians suffered martyrdom for the want of it ! how admirably would t. g. upon his principles have perswaded those christians of nicomedia to resolution and constancy in suffering ! what is it the emperour requires of you to save your lives ? [ o sir say they , it is to burn incense . ] to burn incense ! is that a thing for you to venture your lives for ? i am ashamed of your ignorance ; what do not you know , that burning incense at least now in the new law is an indifferent ceremony , and may be used to god or to men ? [ o but we are required to burn incense to jove . ] what have none of you looked over aristotles threshold , that you do not know , that actions go whither they are intended ? well , let me give you this advice ; when you burn the incense , direct your intention aright to god , and my life for yours , the act will pass to him , and not to iove , as surely as an arrow well level'd hits the mark that is aimed at . i see plainly , this threshold of aristotle would have done more service to have saved the christians lives , than all the precepts of christ or his apostles . but i find none of the primitive christians had peeped through aristotles keyhole , much less had they stept over his threshold , unless they were those philosophical christians , the gnosticks ; for they perfectly understood this principle , and ordered their actions accordingly ; for they had a mighty care of their intention , and kept a good sound faith within , and for all the outward acts of worship among the gentiles , they could do them with the best of them , and only they did by them , as they do with pigeons in the east , they bound their intention fast about them , and with them then they were sure they would fly to the place they intended them . but why doth s. augustine find such fault with seneca for complying with the outward acts of worship among the heathen idolaters ? and with the rest of the philosophers for the same things ? why doth aquinas quote these passages with approbation ? did they know the intention of seneca , or the philosophers ? why doth cajetan say , that a man that commits only the external act of idolatry , is as guilty as he that commits the external act of theft ? to both which , he sayes , no more is necessary than a voluntary inclination to do that act ; not any apprehension in the mind that what he worships is god , nor any intention to direct that act only to the image . nay , why doth gregory de valentia himself say , that outward acts of worship may be so proper to god either from their own nature , or the consent of mankind , that whosoever doth them , whatever his inward intention be , ought to be understood to give the honour proper to god to that for whose sake he doth them ? and this he calls an implicit , tannerus an indirect intention , but neither of them suppose it to be either an actual , or virtual intention of the mind , but only that which may be gathered from the outward acts . nay , t. g. himself saith , that on supposition the philosophers did believe one god , and yet joyned with the people in the practice of their idolatry , they were worthily condemned by the apostle , though but for the external profession of praying and offering sacrifice to their images . say you so ? and yet do outward acts certainly go whither they are intended ? suppose then these philosophers intended to worship the true god by those images ? where this idolatry or no ? if not , why were they so much to blame , for giving worship to the true god by an image ? which t. g. commends , as a very good thing . was it the figure of their images displeased him ? that could not be , for the statue of iupiter capitolinus might as fitly represent god to them as that of an old man in their churches ; and young iupiter in the lap of fortune , ( an image cicero mentions ) might put him in mind of one of the most common images in their church ; and by the help of a good intention might be carryed to a right object . and why might not intention do that , which their church afterwards did , when it changed the temple of hercules to s. alexius , because he was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and that of the two brothers romulus and remus , or as bellarmin saith castor and pollux , to cosmas and damianus ; and the pantheon to omnium sanctorum ? if there be no harm in the thing , there could be none in the intention . or was it the scandal of their practice ? but to whom was the scandal given ? it would have been rather scandal among them not to have done it . so that if a secret intention doth carry that act whither it is intended , and it be lawful to worship god by images , i do not see , wherein the philosophers were to blame in complying with those outward acts , whose good or evil according to t. g. depends upon the intention of the doers of them . but if they were really to blame , it was for doing those external acts of worship to creatures , which belong only to the worship of god , and so the apostle by condemning them , doth prove that which i intended , viz. that there are such peculiar external acts of divine worship , that the doing of them for the worship of a creature is idolatry . but my adversary , thinks to clear the church of rome from the charge of idolatry , by two general answers which serve him and his brethren on all occasions . viz. . that there are two sorts of worship , one called latria , or soveraign worship which is proper to god , and another called dulia or inferiour worship that may be given to creatures on the account of excellencies communicated to them from god. . that the worship they give to any inanimate creatures , that have no proper excellencies of their own is not absolute , but a relative latria , they intending thereby only to worship god. in the examining of these two , i shall clear the last part of this discourse , viz. . how the applying the acts of religious worship to a creature doth make that worship idolatry ? . i shall consider the different sorts of worship which t. g. insists upon , to clear the church of rome from the practice of idolatry . the question at present , saith t. g. between dr. st. and the church of rome is not , whether divine worship be to be given to saints ( for this is abhorred of all faithful christians ) but whether an inferiour worship of like kind with that which is given to holy men upon earth for their holiness and near relation to god , may not be lawfully given to them , now they are in heaven ? again , he saith , if by religious worship , i mean that honour which is due to god alone , it is true what the fathers say , that it is not to be given to the most excellent created beings , but nothing at all to the point in debate between us ; if i mean that honour of which a creature is capable for religions sake , and that relation which it setleth , he will , he saith , shew it to be false , that the fathers deny any such honour to be given to the holy angels or saints : and if i prove that this worship ought not to be called religious , he tells me from s. austin , that it is but a meer wrangling about words , because religion may be used in other senses besides that of the worship due to god. and by the help of this distinction between the religious worship due to god , and that of which a creature is capable for religions sake , he saith he can clearly dispell the mist i have raised from the testimony of the fathers , and let the reader see that i have perverted their meaning , and yet said nothing to the purpose . thus he answers the testimonies of iustin martyr , theophilus , origen , s. ambrose , ( or the writer under his name ) theodoret , s. austin ; and if they had been a hundred more , it had been all one ; they had been all sent packing with the same answer ; let them say what they would , they must be all understood of divine worship proper to god , and not of the inferiour worship which creatures are capable of , which from s. austin he calls dulia ; as the former latria . the whole strength of t. g's defence , as to the worship of saints and angels , lyes in this single distinction ; which i shall therefore the more carefully consider , because it tends to clear the nature of divine worship , which is my present subject . to proceed with all possible clearness in this debate , which t. g. hath endeavoured to perplex , i shall . give a true account of the state of the controversie . . enquire into the sense of the fathers about this distinction about soveraign and inferiour worship , whether those acts of worship which are practised in the roman church , he only such as the fathers allowed . . for the true state of the controversie ; which was never more necessary to be given , than in this place . for , any one that only reads t. g. and doth not understand the practice of the roman church , would imagine all the dispute between him and me were , whether the saints in heaven be capable of receiving any honour from men ; and whether that honour being given upon the account of religion , might be called religious honour or no ? this were indeed to wrangle about words , which i perfectly hate . i will therefore freely tell , him how far i yield in this matter , that he may better understand where the difficulty lyes . . i yield , that the saints in heaven do deserve real honour and esteem from us ; and i do agree with mr. thorndike , whose words he cites , therein , that to dispute whether we are bound to honour the saints , were to dispute whether we are to be christians , or whether we believe them to be saints in heaven . for on supposition that we believe , that the greatest excellencies of mens minds come from the grace of god , communicated to men through iesus christ ; and we are assured that such persons now in heaven were possessed of those excellencies , it is impossible we should do otherwise than esteem and honour them . for honour in this sense , is nothing else , but the due apprehension of anothers excellency ; and therefore it must be greater , or lesser according to the nature and degree of those excellencies . since therefore we believe the saints in heaven are possessed of them in a higher degree than they were on earth , our esteem of them must increase according to the measure of their perfections . . that the honour we have for them may be called religious honour , because it is upon the account of those we may call religious excellencies , as they are distinguished from meer natural endowments and civil accomplishments . on which account i will grant , that is not properly civil honour , because the motive or reason of the one is really different from the other . and although the whole church of christ in heaven and earth make up one body , yet the nature of that society is so different from a civil society , that a different title and denomination ought to be given to the honour which belongs to either of them ; and the honour of those of the triumphant church may the better be called religious , because it is an honour which particularly descends from the object of religion , viz. god himself as the fountain of it ; as civil honour doth from the head of a civil society . . that this honour may be expressed in such outward acts , as are most agreeable to the nature of it . and herein lyes a considerable difference , between the honour of men for natural and acquired excellencies , and divine graces , that those having more of humane nature in them , the honour doth more directly redound to the possessor of them ; but in divine graces which are more immediately conveyed into the souls of men , through a supernatural assistance , the honour doth properly belong to the giver of them . therefore the most agreeable expression of the honour of saints is solemn thanksgiving to god for them : for thereby we acknowledge the true fountain of all the good they did or received . however , for the incouragement of men to follow their examples , and to perpetuate their memories , the primitive christians thought it very fitting to meet at the places of their martyrdom , there to praise god for them , and to perform other offices of religious worship to god , and to observe the anniversary of their sufferings , and to have panegyricks made to set forth their vertues , to excite others the more to their imitation . thus far i freely yield to t. g. to let him see what pittiful cavils those are , that if men deserve honour for natural or supernatural endowments , surely the saints in heaven much more do so : who denyes it ? we give the saints in heaven the utmost honour we dare give , without robbing god of that which belongs only to him . which is that of religious worship , and consists in the acknowledgements we make of gods supream excellency together with his power and dominion over us : and so religious worship consists in two things . . such external acts of religion which god hath appropriated to himself . . such an inward submission of our souls , as implyes his superiority over them : and that lyes , as to worship , . in prayer to him for what we want . . in dependence upon him for help and assistance . . in thankfulness to him for what we receive . prayer is a signification of want , and the expression of our desire of obtaining that which we need : and whosoever beggs any thing of another , doth in so doing , not only acknowledge his own indigency , but the others power to supply him : therefore suarez truly observes from aquinas , that as command is towards inferiours , so is prayer towards superiours : now to this , saith he , two things are requisite , . that a man apprehends it is in the power of the superiour to give what we ask . . that he is willing to give it , if it be asked of him . the expectation of the performance of our desire is that we call dependence upon him for help and assistance ; and our acknowledgement of his doing it , is thankfulness . now if we consider prayer , as a part of religious worship , we are to enquire on what account it comes to be so ; not , as though thereby we did discover any thing to god which he did not know before , nor as though we hoped to change his will upon our prayer ; but that thereby we profess our subjection to him , and our dependence on him for the supply of our necessities . for although prayer be looked on by us as the means to obtain our requests , yet the consideration upon which that becomes a means , is , that thereby we express our most humble dependence upon god. it being the difference observed by gul. parisiensis between humane and divine prayer ; that prayer among men is supposed a means to change the person to whom we pray ; but prayer to god doth not change him , but fits us for receiving the things prayed for . this one consideration is of greater importance towards the resolution of our present question than hath been hitherto imagined : for the question of invocation , doth not depend so much upon the manner of obtaining the thing we desire , i. e. whether we pray to the saints to obtain things by their merits and intercessions , which is allowed and contended for by all in the roman church ; or whether it be , that they do bestow the things themselves upon us , which they deny : but the true state of the question is this , whether by the manner of invocation of saints which is allowed and practised in the roman church , they do not give that worship to saints , which is only peculiar to god ? now we are farther to consider , wherein that act of worship towards god doth lye ; which is not in an act of the mind whereby we apprehend god to be the first and independent cause of all good ; but in an act of dependence upon him for the obtaining that good we stand in need of . for a man may apprehend god to be the first author of all good , and yet make no prayer to him , nor use the acts of religious worship ; because he may suppose that god may have committed the care of humane affairs to inferiour deities , and therefore all our addresses and acts of worship are to be performed to them : on this account the worship proper to god must lye in dependence upon him as the sole author of all good to us ; and this to be expressed by our solemn invocation of him . for although the internal desire be sufficiently known to god ; yet the necessity of external religious worship , and owning this dependence upon god to the world , doth require the expression of it , by outward duties and offices of religion , in such a manner , that our sole dependence upon god be understood thereby . now the question between t. g. and me is this , whether the doctrine and practice of the roman church in the invocation of saints and angels be consistent with the acknowledgement of our sole dependence upon god for all our blessings ? the doctrine of their church is thus delivered by himself , in the words of the council of trent , it is good and profitable for christians humbly to invocate the saints , and to have recourse to their prayers , aid , and assistance , whereby to obtain benefits of god , by his son our lord iesus christ who is our only redeemer and saviour . where we take notice of the phrase suppliciter invocare , to invocate them after the manner of suppliants , and that not only voce , but mente , with words , but mental prayers as the council adds , which words seem to be put on purpose to distinguish it from that office of kindness in one man to another , when he desires him to pray for him ; for this is as much as they would use concerning the saints in heaven praying to god , that they do suppliciter invocare ; this phrase then doth not limit the signification of this invocation to be no more than praying to the saints to pray for us . for a man doth , i suppose , answer the signification of that phrase by praying to them to give , rather than by praying to them to pray ; for the one imports more the humility of a suppliant , than the other doth . and if there had been apprehended any danger of praying to them as the givers of blessings , is is not to be imagined , but so wary a council would have expressed it , as it was most easie to have done ; and most necessary to avoid that danger , if they had any regard to the good of mens souls . and that man must have an understanding indeed of a very common size , that can apprehend that the council of trent disallowed the praying to saints as the givers of blessings , which was known to be practised in their church , when they commend the humble invocation of saints without the least censure of that manner of praying to them . nay farther , which puts the matter out of dispute , with all who do not wilfully blind themselves , the council of trent commends the making recourse , not only to the prayers of the saints , but to their aid and assistance : what doth this aid and assistance signifie , as distinct from prayers , and expressing somewhat beyond them ? ( or else those words were very weakly inserted in such a place , where they are so lyable to misconstruction ) unless it be that which they pray for to them , viz. that they would help , comfort , strengthen , and protect them . of which sort of prayers i produced several instances in their most authentick offices . and what saith t. g. to this ? why truly , these forms of prayer to saints cannot be denyed to be in use among them , but yet the sense of them is no more than praying to them to pray for them , and this is only varying the phrase , to say to the blessed virgin pray for me , or help me , and comfort me and strengthen me o blessed virgin . but i asked him , whence must people take the sense of these prayers , if not from the signification of the words ? he answers , not meerly from lilly 's grammar rules , but from the doctrine of the church delivered in her councils and catechisms , and from the common use of such words and expressions among christians . i am content with this way of interpreting the sense of these prayers , provided , that a generally received practice , never condemned by their councils , but rather justified by them , and a doctrine agreeable to that practice , allowed and countenanced in that church , be thought a sufficient means to interpret the sense of these prayers . and to make the matter more plain , besides the prayers already mentioned , i shall give only a tast of some few of those , which are recommended to the use of the devout persons of their church , in the manuals and offices which are now allowed them in our own language : in which we may be sure , they would be careful to have nothing they thought scandalous , or repugnant to the doctrine and practise of their church . in the manual of godly prayers , which hath been often printed , ( and once very lately ) i find these words under the title of a most devout commendation to our most blessed lady , o most singular , most excellent , most beautiful , most glorious , and most worthy mother of god , most noble queen of heaven , and most entirely beloved , and most sweet lady , and virgin mary ; so often from the bottom of my heart i do salute thee , as there be in number angels in heaven , drops of water in the sea , stars in the firmament , leaves on the trees , and grass on the earth . i do salute thee in the union of love , and by the blessed and most sweet heart of thy most dear son , and of all that love thee , i do commend and assign my self unto thee , as to my dear patroness , to be thy proper and loving child . and farther , i humbly beseech thee o blessed lady , that thou wilt vouchsafe to entertain and receive me , and obtain of thy dear son , that i may be wholly thine , and thou next unto god may be wholly mine , that is , my lady , my ioy , my crown , and my most sweet and faithful mother . amen . lilly's grammar i confess , will not help us out here ; nor the construing book neither : i do not think any rules will do it . it must be a special gift of interpreting , that can make any one think , that no more is meant by all this , but to pray to the blessed virgin to pray for them . in the same manual i find another recommendation to the virgin mary , in these words , o my lady , holy mary , i recommend my self into thy blessed trust , and singular custody , and into the bosome of thy mercy , this night and evermore , and in the hour of my death , as also my soul and my body ; and i yield unto thee all my hope and consolation , all my distress and miseries , my life and the end thereof ; that by thy most holy intercession , and by thy merits , all my works may be directed and disposed , according to thine , and thy sons will. amen . i confess , intercession is here mentioned ; but withal it is plain that is not the only thing relyed upon , for her merits are immediately added ; and whatever ground it be upon , it seems , it is not only lawful , but a devout thing to commit soul and body to her trust and custody , both in life and death . what could have been said more to the eternal son of god , than is contained in this commendation to the blessed virgin in all the expressions of it ? in another prayer to her , which is not only in the manual , but in the primer , or office of the blessed virgin , and is too long to repeat , we have this beginning . i beseech thee , o holy lady mary , mother of god most full of pity , the daughter of the highest king , mother most glorious , mother of orphans , the consolation of the desolate , the way of them that go astray , the safety of all that trust in thee , a virgin before child-bearing , a virgin in child-bearing , and a virgin after child-bearing , the fountain of mercy , the fountain of health and grace , the fountain of consolation and pardon , the fountain of piety and gladness , the fountain of life and forgiveness . i am now got from lilly's grammar to aristotles threshold : and i desire to know of t. g. whether these expressions are true or false ? is the blessed virgin all these things , or not ? if they be not true , they are horrible blasphemies : if they be true , to what purpose is it to talk of praying to her to pray for us ? for why may not i go directly to the fountain of mercy , grace , and pardon ? what needless trouble were it to pray her , to pray for that which is in her on hands to bestow ? in another prayer following that , are these expressions to the blessed virgin , bow down thine ears o mother of pity and mercy , unto my poor prayers , and be to me wretched sinner , a pitious helper in all things . and presently after to our lady and s. iohn together . o ye two heavenly gemms , mary and john ! o two divine lamps ever shining before god! drive away with your blessed beams , the dark clouds of my sins . — to you , i most wretched sinner , commend this day , my body and soul , that in every hour and moment inwardly and outwardly , ye would vouchsafe to be my sure keepers and pitiful intercessors to god for me . here we have intercession again , but that is not all , nor the main thing ; for custody is more than intercession ; and that is first begged , and then intercession . so that if ever any prayers were made to creatures for those things , which god alone can give , these were ; and so as to imply our dependence on them for the obtaining of them . these may suffice for a taste of their present and allowed devotions among them here at home , in books of daily use . and now i beseech t. g. to tell me , what there is in the doctrine of the church of rome , which makes it necessary for me to put so forced a sense upon all these expressions , that they do mean no more than praying to the blessed virgin to pray for them ? as lilly's grammar will not explain the sense , so no rhetorick i ever saw , will make me understand the figure . how often have we been railed at , for understanding words in a figurative sense , which cannot be literally understood , without overthrowing the plainest evidence of sense and reason ; and which by the customary modes of speaking among all nations , attributing the thing signified to the sign , and by other places of scripture and fathers , we prove ought to be no otherwise understood ? but here is a strange figure invented against the plain and natural sense of the words , for by praying to bestow must be understood only praying to pray : and that when those titles are at the same time given , which suppose it in their power to give ; and when there is no imaginable necessity from any doctrine of their church to put this sense upon those words . for what article of their creed , what decree of their church , what doctrine of their divines doth it contradict , for any man to pray directly to the virgin mary , for the destruction of heresies , support under troubles , grace to withstand temptations , and reception to glory ? and what can we beg for , more from god himself ? yet i challenge t. g. to shew , which of all these , such prayers are repugnant to ? and if to none of them , why should not the words be understood as they properly signifie ? nay , it were easie to shew , that such prayers are very agreeable not only to the doctrine of the council of trent , but of their most eminent divines both before , and after it . but this were to go beyond the bounds of this general discourse ; which is designed only to state the nature of divine worship between us and them . yet i cannot but take notice of the way t. g. saith , the people are instructed by , to make this to be the sense of praying to give , i. e. praying to pray . . he saith , the common doctrine of christianity , by which they are taught that god alone is the giver of all good things : and doth not the same common doctrine of christianity , teach men to pray to him alone , for what he only can give ? and not to use such bold and absurd figures in prayer , whose plain sense is contrary to this common doctrine of christianity . but i wonder that t. g. should think this an effectual way to make them understand the prayers in this sense , when himself hath shewed them the way to reconcile this common doctrine to their practice ; and the form of the words . for may not giving be distinguished as well as worship ? it is true , god alone is the original giver of all good things , and this is a soveraign way of giving peculiar to god ; but there is an inferiour and subordinate way of giving by a power derived from god , and this is all , say they , we attribute to the saints ; and how now doth the common doctrine of christianity teach people more effectually , that god alone is the giver of all things , than that god alone is to be worshipped ? i am sure the scripture saith one as often , and in as plain terms , as it can do the other . but , . he saith , their sermons , catechisms and explications both by word and writing do it ; suppose some persons do it , i ask , by what authority ? their church having never declared against an inferiour way of giving in the saints , and having expresly owned the making recourse to them for their help and assistance , as well as their prayers . i desire t. g. in good earnest to tell me , what makes him so concerned , to have all the prayers understood in that sense , of praying to the saints to pray for them , against the express sense of the words ? is there any harm in the other sense or not ? if there be no harm , why may they not be so understood , without so much force and violence offered to them ? if there be any harm , what is it ? idolatry or not ? if only scandal , why were they not put in other words ? if idolatry , then t. g. himself charges them with idolatry that understand their prayers by lilly's grammar , unless he thinks it much better for them , not to understand them at all . but i shall beg the favour of one of their church-dictionaries to interpret this late ode of rapin to the lady of loretto , so as to make me construe it to be only praying to her to pray for them . ad divam virginem lauretanam . diva , quam rebus trepidis benignam rure piceno veneratur orbis , cui suos sternit facilis moveri adria fluctus : si qua pastoris tibi vaticani cura , vel sacri superest ovilis , italis thracem procul inquietum finibus arce . si faves totis trepidabit undis bosphorus , rupes scyticae pavebunt , turca pallebit , timidumque cornu luna recondet . namque te dudum pelagi potentem non semel verso tremuere ponto mersa threissi , rate dissipata arma tyranni . ne tibi fidam pavor ille gentem angat , aut saevis male turbet armis quos tuis laeti meditamur aris , ponere honores . if this be not making a goddess of her , surely the heathen poets never made one of minerva ; and yet i hope rapin , a iesuit and a scholar , did well enough understand what was agreeable to the doctrine and practice of the church of rome . yet supposing t. g's sense were all that were understood by the church of rome in this matter , it doth not acquit them from giving that religious worship , which invocation imports , to something else besides god. for let us suppose that the arrians only looked on christ as a powerful intercessor with god , and on that account did in their publick offices of religion make their solemn addresses to him to intercede and pray for them to god ; were this giving him any part of divine worship or no ? especially , when performed with all the external acts of adoration which are proper to god. if this were not any part of divine worship , the fathers were extreamly out in their proofs that christ could be no creature , because the external act of adoration was given to him ; if it were a part of divine worship , then those in the church of rome do give it to a creature , when with all the solemn acts of devotion they pray to saints , which they use to god himself , although it be only to be intercessors with god for them , especially when they do not only pray thus to them , but rely upon them for their help and assistance , and return thanks to them when they receive the blessings they prayed for . would not the fathers have called this bringing in polytheism , and reviving the antient idolatry of the heathens ? since the great principle of christianity they said was , the reserving all parts of religious worship to god alone . nay , some of the writers of the roman church have been so ingenuous in this matter to confess , that if the modern practice of invocation of saints had been introduced in the apostolical times , it would have looked too like the introducing of gentilism again . franciscus horantius in his answer to calvins institutions , confesses , that invocation of saints was not expresly commanded under the gospel , nè gentiles conversi crederent se iterum ad cultum terrigenarum trahi , lest the gentile converts should believe that they were again drawn to the worship of creatures : which words he had borrowed from eccius , and the same are repeated by harpsfield . martinus peresius ayala a learned spanish bishop assigns this for the reason , why he could meet with no footsteps either of the invocation or intercession of saints , before the time of cornelius bishop of rome ; viz. that the apostles would have been thought to have made themselves gods , if they had delivered the doctrine of invocation and intercession of saints . by which we see , these persons did truly apprehend a great affinity between their practice of invocation of saints , and the heathen idolatry ; or else there was no danger , one should be mistaken for the other . and although t. g. tells us , he never met with any catholick so ignorant , as not to understand the sense of their prayers to be to desire the saints to help them with their prayers ; yet i meet with some men , who understood catholicks as well as t. g. and yet do give a quite different account of them . for the same spanish bishop , thinks the people had great need to be better instructed in this matter of worship , lest , saith he , they make gods of the saints , nam multos inveni in hac parte , non satis christianè institutos ; i have found many not well instructed in this matter : it seems not only the people committed idolatry , but their teachers did not instruct them well enough to avoid it . and ludov. vives was not so lucky a man as t. g. for he saith , that many christians do most times offend in a good thing ( i. e. giving honour to saints ) for , he saith , they worship them no otherwise than they do god ; neither do i find in many things any difference between their opinion of the saints , and the heathens of their gods. t.g. takes notice of this passage of vives , and blames me for leaving out in re bona , in a thing good in it self ; let him make as much of this , as he please , for it only shews that he was a through papist , although he charged the people with the downright practice of idolatry : and if it only implyes an error and abuse in practice , yet he shews both these were too common among them , and that the catholicks in his time were not so wise as those t. g. hath met with . but it may be he means no more , than that if they be asked the question in their catechism , they answer it as he saith ; which is as good a way to free them from the practice of idolatry , as if a man should be suspected of adultery , and t. g. should answer for him , that cannot be , for he understands better than so , for when i asked him the commandments , he said he ought not to commit adultery . polydore virgil , was not so happy as t. g. for speaking of the solemn rite of supplication when the images of saints are carryed in procession , he saith , i fear , i fear we rather please the heathen gods than christ by such practices ; which without all question , he saith , was taken from the heathen customs . and what he saith of the worship of images , is as true of that of saints , that the people were arrived to that degree of madness , that their worship differed very little from idolatry . cassander saith , that the people trusted so much to the patronage and intercession of the saints , whom they worshipped with dull , not to say profane ceremonies , that they hoped for the pardon of their sins , although they did not amend their lives , on the account of their intercession for them ; and that they trusted more to them , especially to the blessed virgin , than to christ himself . and that what interpretations soever some men put upon those titles of the queen of heaven , mother of mercy , &c. the common people did not understand them according to their sense of them . nay , erasmus goes farther , saying , that their very preachers worshipped the blessed virgin with more religion , or devotion , than they did christ himself , or his holy spirit , calling her the mother of grace . by all which we see , that the doctrine of divine worship is not so clearly stated by them , but that the more ingenuous men , who have lived and dyed in the communion of that church , have thought not only the people , but the teachers very much to blame in it . . my business now is , to give an account of the sense of the fathers in this dispute about the notion of divine worship ; not to handle particularly the testimonies of the fathers in dispute between us , which belongs to the question of invocation of saints , but to shew , that they went upon the same principles i have here laid down , in the distinction between the honour and the worship of them ; and while they speak most for the honour of the saints , they deny any religious worship to be performed to them . origen in the beginning of his book against celsus , makes that to be the property of the doctrine of christ , that god only was to be worshipped , but that other might be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , worthy of honour , but not of worship . and in another place he speaks as plainly as words can express his meaning ; although , saith he , we should believe that angels were set over these things below , yet we only praise and magnifie them ; but all our prayers are only to be made to god , and not to any angel ; and only iesus christ is to offer up our prayers to god ; and lest any should imagine he meant only some kind of prayers , he saith expresly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 all prayer , and supplication , and intercession ; and saith that we ought not to pray to them who pray for us . but now what saith t. g. to these places , which ( excepting the first ) i had objected against the practice of invocation of saints and angels in my former discourse ? why truly he saith , that origens meaning is partly , that we are not to pray to them in the same manner that we do to god : but we may pray to them after another manner . but is that inferiour sort of prayer , prayer or not ? when we desire them to pray for us , is not that desiring their intercession for us ? but origen denyes , that any prayer is to be made to them , or any one to be prayed to , although it be only to intercede with god for us , but only the son of god. i remember an answer of a devout servant of the blessed virgin much like this of t. g. for when it was objected , that she could not be the mother of redemption for mankind , because it is said , isa. . . i have trodden the wine-press alone , and of the people there was no man with me . true , saith he , there is no man with thee , but there might be a woman for all that . so doth t. g. deal with the testimonies of the fathers , let them be never so express against all sorts of prayers and invocations , they hold only of such a sort of prayer , but there may be another and inferiour sort notwithstanding . but is there any sort that is not comprehended under all ? and that origen cannot be understood in these passages of such prayer only as supposeth the supream excellency in god , most evidently appears by the dispute between celsus and him , which was not about the worship of the supream god , but of inferiour spirits and ministers to him , as hath been fully proved already . the church of philomelium in that noble testimony concerning the martyrdom of polycarp , makes the same distinction between honour and worship ; for they utterly deny giving any worship to a creature , as inconsistent with christianity ; but at the same time , they confess the honour and esteem they had for the martyrs , which they expressed by meeting at the places of their martyrdom , keeping their anniversary dayes , and recommending their examples to the imitation of others . in the former discourse i produced the testimonies of iustin martyr , theophilus antiochenus , and mentioned many others to the same purpose , viz. that all religious worship was due only to god ; and with this double caution to prevent cavils , . that it was without making any distinctions of absolute and relative worship , which they must have been driven to , in case they had given religious worship to any besides . . that when the christians refused to give adoration to the emperour , it could not be understood of the adoration proper to the supream god , for none can be so sensless to imagine they required that , but such kind of religious worship as they gave to the images of their gods. to all this t. g. replyes , ( i. ) that these testimonies are impertinent , because they are to be understood only of that divine worship which is due to god alone ; and not of the inferiour worship which belongs to saints or angels . might he not as well have said , that they prove that no man might be worshipped , but a woman might ? for the force of the testimonies did not lye meerly in this , that they attributed divine worship only to god , but that they made use of the most general terms which signified worship without any distinction of the nature and kind of that worship , supposing it to be on a religious account . for no men of common sense would have written as they did , if they had believed that some sort of religious worship were lawful to be given , and another not . doth t. g. think that he should ever escape censure in his church , if he should say peremptorily that it is unlawful to give any kind of religious worship to a creature , when the very indices of the fathers cannot escape the index expurgatorius for blabbing so great a truth ? no ; we should have t. g. presently out with his distinctions ; worship is of two sorts , supream called latria , inferiour called dulia : religious may be taken in two senses . . that which proceeds from the vertue of religion , and that is proper to god. . that which tends to the honour of religion , and that may be given to creatures . and thus would the fathers have written , if they had ever looked over aristotles threshold , and been of t. g's mind ; and therefore my argument which proceeded upon the general terms of the fathers , without intimating any such distinction , doth hold good , that either they did not write like understanding men , or they knew no such distinctions as these . . that although justin martyr and theophilus deny divine worship to be given to emperours , yet they both imply , that lawful worship and honour is to be given to them ; and therefore he cannot but wonder , what i meant by alledging those testimonies , unless i intend not any worship at all to be due to any besides god ; or that i think it not possible to worship a good man. and afterwards he saith , he would willingly understand yet farther , whether i allow any honour at all to be due to princes as gods vicegerents ; for he doth not remember hitherto any passage in my book , from whence he could gather that i hold it lawful to give any worship either to princes statues or to themselves . which words have such a venemous insinuation in them , that i could hardly believe they could come from a man of the least common ingenuity . because i deny religious worship to be given to any besides god himself ; must i therefore be represented as a man that denyes civil worship to be given to princes ? i cannot tell , whether the folly or malice of such an insinuation be the greater . i pray god help his understanding , and forgive his ill will. i hope all acts do not go whither they are intended ; but that which he designs for my dishonour , may notwithstanding his intention , terminate in his own . i do assure him , i am so much for the utmost civil worship to be given to princes as gods vicegerents , as not to think it in the power of any bishop in the world to depose them , or absolve their subjects from obedience to them ; and i hope t. g. thinks so too , although he may not think it so fit to declare his mind . but what is all this to our present business ? the force of my argument lay in this , the christians denyed giving religious worship to princes , although it were an inferiour kind of religious worship , therefore they did not think an inferiour kind of religious worship lawful . was this argument too hot for his fingers , so that assoon as he touched it , he runs away , and frets and fumes , and vents his spight against me for it ? however , i will urge it again and again , till i receive a better answer . t. g. saith , the fathers speak only of the soveraign worship that is due only to god ; and that is the worship they think unlawful to give to any creature . i say it is impossible that should be their sense , for they deny it to be lawful to give religious worship to princes , when they were required to do it ; but no men ever took princes for the supream god. t. g. tells me , that tertullian explains theophilus and justin , saying , that the king is then to be honoured when he keeps himself within his own sphere , and abstains from divine honours . very well ! this is that i aim at : and he need not wonder what i brought these testimonies for ; for it was for this very thing which tertullian saith , that the christians did refuse to give divine honours to princes : and therefore they thought divine worship comprehended under it all sorts of religious worship . but saith t. g. it is a thing notoriously known , that many of the heathen emperours exacted to be worshipped as gods , that is with divine worship . i grant all this , and say that it still proves what i intend . for did they mean by worshipping them as gods , that they would have the people believe them to be the supream god ? that is madness and folly to suppose , for the utmost they required , was to be worshipped with the same worship that deified men were ; or to have the same worship living , which the senate was wont to decree to them when they were dead . and can t. g. possibly believe , that this was to suppose them to be the sole authors of all good to mankind ? which is that kind of divine worship , he saith , the fathers only condemned . i desire t. g. to think again of this matter , and i dare say he will see more cause to wonder at his own answer , than at my argument , which so evidently overthrows all that he brings to evade the testimonies of the fathers . but saith t. g. if kings may be honoured as gods vicegerents , why may not saints as the adopted children of god ? who denyes this , for gods sake ? but i deny , that either kings or saints are to have divine worship given to them . and since t. g. is in the humour of asking me questions , let me propose one to him ; if kings may be honoured as gods vicegerents , why not with divine honour upon his principles ; i. e. with a relative latria , though not absolute ? and if that be lawful , what he thinks of the primitive christians , who chose to dye , rather than to give divine worship to them upon any account ? by this time i hope t. g. is ashamed of what he adds , that on the same principles that i deny any worship to be due to saints , a quaker would prove , that it must be denyed to princes . the worship i deny to saints , is that which god hath denyed to them , viz. divine worship ; the worship i say is due to princes , is that which god hath required to be given them , viz. civil worship . and they that cannot find out a difference between these two , are a fit match for the quakers . i know not what a quaker might do in this matter ; i am sure t. g. doth nothing but trifle in it . was there ever a meaner argument came out of the mouth of a quaker , that what he urges against me , viz. that in such a book printed in such a place , and just in such a page , i call a divine of our nation reverend and learned : and what then ? therefore saints are to be worshipped : very extraordinary i confess ; and one of t. g's nostrum's ! if he please , let it be writ upon his monument , hic jacet auctor hujus argumenti , for i dare say , no body ever used it before him . if we give men titles of respect according to their age and calling , or real worth , therefore we are to give religious worship to saints : and why not as well to princes , because we call the iudges appointed by them , the reverend iudges ? but surely this will prove not only a dulia , but an hyperdulia : because we not only call the clergy reverend , but the bishops right reverend , and archbishops most reverend . i am sorry t. g. did not so well consider the force of his argument , to have pressed it home upon me , for he now sees how much more advantage might have been made by it : but it is an easie thing to add to rare inventions . but certainly t. g. ( to use his own words ) must believe his readers to be all stark blind , who cannot distinguish titles of respect from religious worship . but is there not a reverence due to persons for their piety , as well as for their age and dignity ? who doubts it ? but that reverence lyes in the due expressions of honour and esteem towards them , which i hope may be done without encroaching upon the acts of religious worship ; and i think i have told him plainly enough , what i mean by them , in the foregoing discourse . but t. g. seems to understand no difference between titles of respect , and acts of worship ; between expressions of esteem and devotion ; between religious and civil worship ; for he blunders and confounds all these together , and whatever proves one , he thinks proves all the rest : these are not the best wayes of reasoning , but they are the best the cause would bear . well , but yet the matter seems not altogether so clear , for the worship we are to give to princes is as they are gods vicegerents , and this is given on a religious account , because god commands us to give honour to whom honour is due ; the place urged by t. g. , rom. . . to this a very easie answer will serve . worship may be said to be religious two wayes . . as it is required by the rule of religion : and so the worship given to magistrates is religious . . in its nature and circumstances ; as it consists of those acts which god hath appropriated to his worship ; or is attended with those circumstances which make it a religious performance , and then it is not to be given to princes , or any creatures , but only to god himself . this will be made plain by a remarkable instance among the antient christians ; while divine honours were challenged by the emperours to themselves , i. e. the honours belonging to consecrated men ( for they meant no other ) the christians refused giving to them those external acts of reverence which might be supposed to have any religious worship in them ; although they expressed the greatest readiness at the same time to obey their laws , that did not require any thing against christianity ; and to pray for their safety and prosperity . this being known to be the general practice of christians , pliny in his epistle to trajan mentions this as one of the wayes of trying christians , viz. whether they would imagini caesaris thure & vino supplicare , give religious worship to caesars image , by burning incense , and pouring out wine before it ; which were the divine honours required . this , pliny saith , all that were true christians refused to do ; and those who did it presently renounced christ. thus , this matter stood as long as the emperours continued gentiles , who were presumed to affect divine honours ; but when constantine had owned christianity , and thereby declared , that no religious worship was to be given to him , the christians not only erected publick statues to emperours , but were ready to express before them the highest degrees of civil worship and respect . this iulian thought to make his advantage of , and therefore placed the images of the gods among those of the emperours , that either they might worship the gods , or by denying civil worship to the emperours statues , which the custom then was to give , they might be proceeded against as disaffected to the emperour . and when he sate on the throne distributing new-years-gifts , he had his altar of incense by him , that before they received gifts , they might cast a little incense into the fire ; which all good christians refused to do , because as gothofred observes , the burning of incense was the same tryal of christians , that eating of swines flesh was of iews . but after the suspicion of religious worship was removed in the succeeding emperors , the former customs of civil worship obtained again ; till theodosius observing how these customs of civil adoration began to extend too far , and border too much upon divine honours , did wholly forbid it in a constitution extant to that purpose , and that for this reason , that all worship which did exceed the dignity of men , should be entirely reserved to god. by this true account of the behaviour of christians in this matter , t. g. may a little better understand what that worship was , which the primitive christians refused to give to emperours , and what difference they made between the same external acts , when they were to be done on a civil and on a religious account ; which are easily discerned either by the nature of the acts themselves , as the burning incense , or the circumstances that attend them , as in adoration . it were needless to produce any more testimonies of antiquity to prove that divine worship is proper only to god , since t. g. confesses it ; but gives quite another sense of divine worship than they did , for under this , they comprehended all acts of religious worship , as appears by the worship they denyed to emperours . it remains therefore to shew , that those who spake most for the honour of the saints , did not by that mean any religious acts of worship , but expressions barely of honour and esteem . iulian objected this against the christians ( as it was common with the heathens to object many false and unreasonable things ) that instead of the heathen gods , they worshipped not one but many miserable men . to this s. cyrill answers , that as to christ , he confesses they worshipped him , but they did not make a god of a man in him , but he was essentially god , and therefore fit to be worshipped ; but for the martyrs , they neither believed them to be gods , nor gave them the worship which belongs to gods. which is unquestionably s. cyrill's meaning , or he doth not answer to the purpose : for iulian never charged the christians with giving that worship to martyrs , which is proper to the supream god considered as such , but that they gave to them that religious worship which iulian pleaded to be due to the inferiour gods , as appears by the state of the question between them . this therefore s. cyrill denyes that they gave to saints and martyrs , which he calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. to give them the worship which the heathens gave to their inferiour deities ; what they gave to the martyrs was upon another account , it was only 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , respectively and by way of honour . and lest any should suspect he meant any kind of religious worship by this , he presently explains himself , that what he said was only to be understood of those honours they gave to them for their generous suffering for the faith , despising all dangers , and thereby making themselves great examples to other christians ; and after he let us understand what these honours were , when he brings the instance of the athenians meeting together at the sepulchres of those who were slain at the battel of marathon for the liberty of greece , and there making panegyricks upon them , and therefore he wonders why julian should exclaim so much against these honours done to the martyrs , since this was all the reward they could give them . and elsewhere he saith , these honours consisted in preserving their memories , and praising their vertues ; and brings the very same instance of the athenians again : but for any matter of worship towards them he utterly denyes it ; because they were bound to give it to none but god. and that we might fully understand what he means when he saith , that christians do not give to saints the worship the heathens gave to their inferiour gods , in another place , he tells us , what that worship did consist in , which he there calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( by which we are certain what he meant by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 before ) and so he reckons up 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the first place , their prayers , or supplications , and then vows , hymns , oblations and sacrifices : the giving of any of these to saints were to worship them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and not as the ignorant or wilfully blind writers of the roman church when they meet with this word , they cry out presently , mark that , not with latria , and presently imagine that what sense a word hath obtained among them , if they meet with it in the fathers , it must needs signifie the same thing ; when the sense of words hath been so strangely perverted by them ; as will more particularly appear by this very distinction of latria and dulia , which they make s. augustine the author of , but have carried it far beyond his meaning . i come therefore to consider s. austins mind in this matter , which i am the more obliged to do , since t. g. so unreasonably triumphs in s. austins opinion in this matter ; and is not only content to drag me at his chariot wheels , but he makes a shew of me , and calls people to see by my example , to what miserable shifts and disingenuous arts they are put , who will shut their eyes , and fight against the light of a noon-day truth : when i first read these words , i began to rub my eyes , and to look about me , and to wonder what the matter was ; and i find my self as willing to see light as another , and my conscience never yet accused me of using disingenuous arts in dealing with them ; if t. g. can clear himself as well , it is the better for him ; i am sure by standers have not thought so , as appears at large by dr. whitby , especially in his last chapter against him . but it is not my business to recriminate ; hopeing sufficiently to clear my self in this matter . it seems , i had said that s. augustine denyes , that any religious worship was performed to the martyrs ; this t. g. again saith , i could not affirm without shutting my eyes : and yet i thank god , by the help of my eyes , i find s. augustin saying the same thing still . for is it not s. augustin that saith , non sit nobis religio cultus hominum mortuorum , let not the worship of dead men , be any part of our religion : for if they have lived piously , they do not desire such honours from us ; but they would have us to worship him , by whom we may become partakers of their happiness : honorandi ergo sunt propter imitationem , non adorandi propter religionem . is it possible for any man to speak plainer than s. austin doth , that they are not to have religious worship given to them , but such honour as may excite us to an imitation of them ? and this not by chance , or in some incoherent passage , but in a set discourse on purpose , where he argues with strong reason against the religious worship of angels , as well as saints , to the end of that book . and saith , the utmost they expect from us , is the honour of our love , and not of our service ; ( and therefore s. augustin did not by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 understand the service of saints and angels ) which he there disputes against , from our happiness coming only from god , our being the temples of god , the angels prohibiting s. john to worship him , and bidding him to worship god ; and that the very name of religion , is from tying our souls to god alone . whosoever of the angels loves god , saith he , loves me for worshipping him , and he that hath gods favour , hath the favour of all that are good . therefore let our religion bind us faster to one omnipotent god , between whom and us there is no creature interposed : with much more to the same purpose . is it not the same s. austin that saith , haec est religio christiana ut colatur unus deus ; this is the christian religion , to worship one god ; and that for this reason , because god only can make the soul happy : for , saith he , it is made happy only by the participation of god , and not of a blessed soul , or angel. not , as though this were intended only against the expectation of our blessedness wholly from saints or angels ; but he makes use of this as an argument to prove , that we ought to worship god alone , who only is able to make us happy . is it not the same s. austin , that saith , this is the character of the true religion , that it unites us only to one god , without giving worship to any other being how excellent soever ? and he looks on this as a divine and singular part of the christian doctrine , nullam creaturam colendam esse animae , that no creature have the worship of our soul ; what did he then think of praying to creatures not only with our voyce , but our mind too , as the council of trent saith , it is profitable for us to do , and not only for their prayers , but for their help and assistance ; but saith good s. austin , the most wise and perfect man , the most accomplished and happy soul is only to be loved and imitated , and honour given to it according to its desert and order : for thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve . could any man speak more plainly and fully against giving any religious worship to creatures , than he doth ? is it not the same s. austin that tells maximus madaurensis , that in the christian church , none that were dead were worshipped , and nothing adored as god , that is made by god ; but only one god , who created all things ? here t. g. smiles , and thinks to avoid this presently ; for s. austin speaks of any thing being adored as god ; which they abhor to do : but his smiling will be soon over , if he considers , what being adored as god there means : for no one ever suspected , that the christians believed the martyrs to be the supream god ; but only that they worshipped them as gods of a lower rank by participation from the supream . and is not the very same thing said and defended in the roman church , that the saints are gods by participation , and they have the care and government of the church committed to them ; and on that account are worshipped ? and if this be not being adored as gods in s. austins sense , i know not what is . is it not the same s. austin , that undertakes to prove against the platonists , that good spirits are not to be worshipped per tale religionis obsequium , by such religious worship ? very right , saith t. g. , not by the worship of sacrifices ; but s. austin saith , neither sacris , nor sacrificiis , which two comprehend all the rites of religious worship which were then used . for he makes use of several phrases to express the acts of religious worship , sometimes by joyning those two together , sacris & sacrificiis ; sometimes religione & sacris ; sometimes religionis ritibus ; sometimes religionis obsequio ; by all which he understands the same thing , viz. the acts of religious worship , which for distinction sake he calls latria ; as that service or worship that men owe to one another , he saith is called by another name : and i confess i cannot find s. austin applying the term of dulia to any service we owe to saints or angels in heaven ; but he avoids the term of service and denyes it be due to them , and only calls it by the name of love and fellowship with them ; and therefore martinus peresius had good reason to quarrel with the use of the word dulia , because we are only fellow servants with them ; and bellarmin gives him no sufficient answer , by bringing that place , gal. . serving one another in love , for that only relates to persons in equal conditions , where the mutual offices may be alike , which cannot be supposed in this case . and therefore i had reason to say , that dulia is used by s. austin , as a term expressing the service we owe to god as our lord ; but t. g. thinks he hath run me down , by producing the foregoing place , which , he saith , i purposely concealed from the reader , for fear he might infer , that if some degree of the service called dulia might be given by servants to their masters , surely a high degree of it may be given to holy angels . very finely argued ! and as much against s. austins sense as is possible . for , he saith , in plain terms , those angels that require service from us are devils : for this he makes the character of them , that they do invite us , ut sibi serviamus ; but , saith he , we honour good angels by love , and not by service . but t. g. is not more mistaken in s. austins sense of dulia , than he is about latria ; for , he saith , that he understands it of sacrifices , and that when he saith blessed spirits are not willing we should sacra facere , it ought not be rendered equivocally , as it is by me , to perform any sacred offices , but to dedicate and sacrifice to them , or consecrate our selves or any thing of ours to them by the rites of religion ; by which , he saith , it is evident , that he speaks of the worship which is due to god alone , that is , of such dedications and consecrations , as were performed by the heathens to their daemons as gods. to this i answer , that i grant that s. austin speaks of the worship due to god alone , and of those rites of religious worship which were performed by the heathens to their gods : but the question is , what he understands by those religious rites , whether only dedications , and sacrifices , and consecrations , or other acts of religious worship ? for t. g. cannot be so ignorant , as not to know , that adorations and prayers were as constant , as solemn , as proper acts of religious worship both by the law of god , and the heathen customs , as those he mentions : thence orandi causa fanum adire , in cicero ; deos immortales precari , venerari , atque implorare debetis , ut urbem defendant ; and scarce any greek or latin writer that mentions their religious rites , but under them they take notice of adoration , and prayers ; and not only so , but some of them give an account of the forms of them , and the manner and order of invocation in their litanies ( for the word is as old as homer ) wherein they invocated their gods in order , that they would be favourable and propitious to them ; and pliny saith in general , that no sacrifice was offered without prayers ; and macrobius , servius , and arnobius say , they began their invocations with janus , not because they looked on him as chief , but as a mediator who was to carry up their prayers to the superiour powers ; and they ended in vesta for the same reason : and that these were comprehended under the sacra , is not only manifest from their conjunction with sacrifices ; but from the old form of obsecration , in which they used ob vos sacro for obsecro . i would now understand from t. g. why he thinks that s. austin should purposely leave out in these words adoration and invocation , which were by all nations looked on as some of the proper acts of religious worship , especially when he mentions both these before and after ? for the occasion of the dispute , was about the intercession of created spirits , and mens addresses to them ; and afterwards he joyns adoration together with sacrifice as a thing peculiar to god : putaverunt quidam deferendum angelis honorem vel adorando vel sacrificando , &c. in a place already cited . if this be not shutting ones eyes against noon-day light ; it is a drawing a curtain before it , lest it grow too hot . but for all this t. g. is very confident , that s. austin was for the performing religious worship to martyrs , because he saith expresly , that it was the custome of the christian people in his time , to celebrate with religious solemnity the memories of the martyrs ; and very kindly after his mode , he charges me with corrupting the words of s. austin , by translating them thus , that it was the custome of the christians in his time to have their religious assemblies at the sepulchres or memories of the martyrs : i did not pretend to translate , as t. g. knew well enough by the character ; but ill will never speaks well ; but i still say , and stand to it , that this is his sense ; as will appear by considering the design of his words . faustus the manichean had charged the african christians with idolatry in the honour they gave to the memories of the martyrs . s. austin answers , that they did so celebrate the memories of the martyrs ; that they erected no altars to any martyr , but to the god of martyrs , although it was for their memories . for who of the bishops or priests that officiates at the altar , in the places of their sepulchres , ever said , we offer to thee peter , or paul , or cyprian ; but that which is offered , is offered to god who crowned the martyrs , but it is done at their sepulchres , whom he hath crowned , that by the very places our affections may be raised , and our love quickned , both to those whom we may imitate , and to him by whom we are enabled to do it . now i desire to know , what part of religious worship was here performed to the martyrs ? if the christian sacrifice , that were idolatry according to t. g. and would have justified faustus to purpose ; but s. austin utterly denyes this to be performed to them . all that the martyrs are concerned in as to the religious solemnity , was no more than that the offices of religion were performed at their sepulchres : this was an honour to them i grant , but no part of religious worship . and although the design of the worship was only to honour god , yet the place of doing it was out of honour to the martyrs . but s. austin saith afterwards , we worship therefore the saints with that worship of love and society , &c. what means this &c. here ? let us have all or nothing : with which holy men in this life are worshipped , whose heart is prepared to suffer as much for the truth of the gospel : he that hath but an eye open , saith t. g. must see that s. austin speaks here of the worship which the christians of his time gave to the martyrs themselves . and he that hath but one corner open cannot but see , that he doth not speak of religious worship , which faustus objected ; but having denyed that to be given to martyrs , he now shews what they did give them , viz. such a kind of worship as we give to holy men alive : and is that the religious worship either faustus or s. austin meant ? s. austin calls it worship , but he means no more by it , than when he said before , that they are to be loved for their goodness , and honoured for their examples ; but what is all this to religious worship or invocation of them , when s. austin in another place expresly denyes , that the saints are invocated by him that offers the sacrifices at the altar ; nay , although that altar were in the place of their sufferings ? and here , saith t. g. i think i have done their work for them ; and he is not mistaken ; whatever he cites from bishop forbs , that s. austin was only to be understood of invocation at the altar ; i shall make it appear that the argument holds good , and that those who speak against it , it is because they do not understand the strength of it . bishop forbs in this place , and several others , takes occasion without reason to find fault with bishop andrews , a man of far greater learning than himself , and of better judgement in these matters ; and it is he , and not bishop montague ( as t.g. mistakes ) whom bishop forbs introduces iohn barclay charging with leading king james aside . but i still say the argument clearly proves , that s. austin denyed invocation of saints ; and i am sorry to see bishop forbs so weakly led aside by bellarmin and others upon this ground , because in the canon of the mass the saints are not directly prayed to in the roman church ; but they are in the missa catechumenorum , and in the litanies ; therefore thus it was in the african church in s. austins time . who knows not what great alterations have been in the liturgies of the church since that time ? yet thus wisely doth t. g. speak upon this subject : if i speak of that part of the mass , which was antiently called the mass of the catechumeni , the priest indeed before he ascends to the altar desires the blessed virgin , and the rest of the saints , &c. to pray for him : but in the missa fidelium there is no invocation of them . if there had been none any where else , there had been a far greater conformity between the church of rome , and the church in s. austins time : we plainly prove , there was no invocation at the altar , let t. g. shew any other part of publick worship at that time , wherein they were invocated . but all these mistakes arise from not considering the mighty difference of the liturgy in s. austins time , in the african church , from what hath since obtained in the roman church . but to give t. g. some better light in this matter , and withal to shew the invincible strength of this argument , i shall prove these two things . . that the prayers of the church did not begin in s. austins time till the catechumens were dismissed : . that the prayers after their dismission were performed at the altar . . that the prayers of the church in s. austins time did not begin till the catechumens were dismissed . for which we have a plain testimony from s. austin , ecce post sermonem fit missa catechumenis , manebunt fideles , venietur ad locum orationis ; whereby he shews not only , that prayers did not begin , till the dismission of the catechumens ; but that the altar was then accounted the proper place of prayer : and elsewhere he saith , that invocation did begin after the creed ; ideo non accepistis prius orationem , postea symbolum ; sed prius symbolum , ubi sciretis quid crederetis ; & postea orationem , ubi nossetis quem invocaretis : which words could have no sense , if any solemn invocation were then made before the creed . so s. ambrose describes the service of the church of millan in his time , post lectiones atque tractatum dimissis catechumenis , symbolum aliquibus competentibus in baptisteriis tradebam basilicae : by which it seems , the service began with the lessons , then followed the sermon , after that the creed , and then when the catechumens were dismissed , the prayers of the church begun : so s. ambrose presently after saith , when he had instructed the competentes , missam facere coepi , i. e. the missa fidelium , or the prayers of the church , when the missa catechumenorum was dispatched , or they sent out of the congregation . so iustin martyr describes the service of the first christians , that it began with the lessons of the prophets and apostles , then followed the sermon ; and after that the prayers began : and then followed the eucharist : which was then constantly received in the publick service . the council of laodicea mentions prayers beginning after the sermon : ( i. e. the publick prayers of the church ) of which that council mentions , the prayers for the catechumens before their dismission ( which in the greek church were performed by the deacon in the ambo making the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the people , to which they joyned their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) after these , followed the prayers for the penitents , and then the prayers of the faithful , or the proper liturgy of the church began . the author of the constitutions called apostolical , appoints the service to begin with the lessons of the old testament , the psalms , the epistles and gospel , after which the sermon was to follow , then the catechumens and penitents being dismissed , they must all rise and go to their prayers for the catholick church ; as it is there described : in the eighth book he mentions the occasional prayers that were made for the catechumens and penitents , before their dismission , and then follow the forms of solemn invocation , which were not to be used till the other were dismissed the assembly . to the same purpose the counterfeit dionysius describes the practice of the church , that the catechumens and penitents were admitted to the lessons and psalms , and then were excluded the congregation . and none were allowed to be present at the prayers of the faithful , but such as were allowed to be present at the eucharist , as the fourth degree of penitents , which is called communicating in prayers , by the council of nice ; by which we may see t. g.'s skill in antiquity , when he puts the forms of invocation used by those who were to partake of the eucharist , into the missa catechumenorum ; whereas they were allowed to be present at no prayers of the church , but only that which was made for them ; and cardinal bona could inform him , that the catechumens were not allowed to joyn so much as in the lords prayer , nor in any solemn invocation of god in behalf of others , as he proves from s. chrysostom , and others . . that the prayers that were made after the dismission of the catechumens were said at the altar . for which we are to consider that in s. austins time , the custom of communicating every day was still observed in the african church , as is evident from his own express testimony , where he saith , that some understand our daily bread of the sacrament of christs body , quod quotidie sumimus , which we receive every day ; and finds fault with those in the greek church who had begun to discontinue that custom ; accipe quotidie , saith he , quod quotidie tibi profit . so that assoon as the catechumens were dismissed , they immediately began the communion service , which was all the service i can find in the use of that church in those times . nay , the very prayer for the catechumens was said at the altar in the african church , which in the greek church was indicted by the deacon in the ambo , or piew for that purpose in the body of the church : et quando audis sacerdotem dei ad altare exhortantem populum dei , orare pro incredulis , ut eos deus convertat ad fidem , & pro catechumenis menis ut eis desiderium regenerationis inspiret , & pro fidelibus ut in eo quod esse coeperunt ejus munere perseverent . where we see the prayers for the catechumens , as well as the other prayers of the church were performed at the altar . and it appears by a passage in his retractations , that the very hymns out of the psalms which were sung either before the oblation , or in time of distribution were sung at the altar ; which custom being found fault with at carthage by one hilarius , it gave him an occasion to write in vindication of it . and in another place he reduces all the prayers of the church to the communion service ; and interprets the apostles words of prayers , supplications , intercessions and giving of thanks , of what was done at the celebration of the eucharist . and that which very much confirms this , is , that when the african fathers made a decree , that no prayers should be used in the publick service , but such as were first seen and approved ; the title of it is , of prayers to be made at the altar . and the african writers make praying and going to the altar to have the same sense ; so tertullian calls it ascendere ad altare ; and ad aram dei stare ; and orationem deducere ad altare . all which put together , make it very clear , that if there was no invocation of saints at the altar in s. austins time , there was none at all in the service of the church ; which i have the more insisted upon , because it is so pregnant a testimony against invocation of saints , and the force of it hath not been fully understood by any i have seen , from the not considering the liturgy of the church in s. austins time . which men have fancied to have been according to the practice of following ages , when the laying aside the discipline of the primitive church , made a great alteration in the publick offices , ( as might be easily discovered , were this a proper place for it , ) both in the greek and latin churches . but that is not my present business . but this ought farther to be considered , the most proper season for invocation of saints was at the altar , for then the commemoration of saints was made out of the diptychs of the church , as appears by multitudes of places in s. austin ; and the martyrs were then put in a rank by themselves ; and whereas they prayed for all others , they did not for them ; but they rather believed they received benefit by their prayers for them . for , saith s. austin , we do not commemorate the martyrs at the holy table as we do others , who rest in peace , so as to pray for them , but rather that they may pray for us : and this was all the office of the church then towards martyrs , viz. commemoration of them at the altar , although s. austin believed that the martyrs at such times , especially when the commemorations were made at their own sepulchres , did joyn their prayers together with the churches , in behalf of those who there put up their supplications to god , and not to them . and this is the meaning of that place , which t. g. objects to prove invocation , viz. that when christians are met at the religious solemnity at their sepulchres , they become partakers of their merits , and obtain help by their prayers : yet he wonders i could not find invocation here , and imagines i shut my eyes again ; but surely t. g. fancies i play at blindmansbuff with him , for he thinks i never have my eyes open . i should now come to examine the distinction of an absolute and relative latria , but of that i shall have occasion to speak so largely in the following dispute about the worship of images , that i here put an end to this general discourse . the second part of the answer to t. g. being a defence of the charge of idolatry practised in the roman church , in the worship of images . by ed. stillingfleet , d.d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london , printed by robert white , for henry mortlock at the sign of the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , and at the white-hart in westminster-hall , . part ii. being a particular defence of the charge of idolatry against the church of rome in the worship of images . chap. i. the state of the controversie about the worship of images , between christians and heathens . having in the precedent discourse given a general account of the nature of idolatry , i now come to the particulars in dispute between us . the first whereof is , concerning the worship of images ; in which nothing is more necessary , than to give a true account of the state of the controversie ; which that i may do with the greatest clearness , . i shall consider wherein the state of this controversie lay , as it was managed between the christians and heathens . . i shall give a just account of the rise , and progress of this controversie in the christian church . and when by this means , the state of the controversie is well understood , the difficulty will not be great in giving answers to all the sophistical cavils of t. g. . for the state of the controversie about the worship of images between the christians and heathens . to this purpose i had used these expressions in my former discourse , that s. paul dealing with the athenians , did prove the unreasonableness of their worshipping god by images , because he was the god that made the world , and is lord of heaven and earth , and that we are his offspring , therefore we ought not to think that the godhead is like unto gold or silver , or stone graven by art or mans device ; where i observed , that the apostle doth not speak meerly against their other objects of worship besides the true god , nor their supposing their gods to be present in their images , nor taking their images for gods , but against their supposition , that there was any resemblance between god and their images , or that he was capable of receiving any honour by them . the same argument , i added , s. paul useth to the romans , speaking of those in whom that which may be known of god is manifest , even his eternal power and godhead , yet these persons who knew god , did not glorifie him as god , but changed the glory of the incorruptible god into an image made like to corruptible man , &c. where changing his glory into images , is , i said , immediately opposed to the glorifying him as god , in respect of his eternal power and godhead , so that these two are inconsistent with each other , to glorifie god by an image , and to glorifie him as god. for here the apostle doth not discourse against the most gross and sottish idolaters of the heathens , but as s. chrysostom well observes , against the philosophers , and the wisest among them , who , although they differed in their opinions of religion extreamly from the vulgar , yet they concurred with them in all the external practices of idolatry . and therefore the apostle doth not charge them with false notions of a deity , for he saith , that they held the truth in unrighteousness , and that they did know god : but they shewed their vanity and folly in thinking they had found out subtiller wayes of defending the common idolatries among them ; and instead of opposing them , made use of their wits to excuse them . to which i added this material observation , that the most intelligent heathens did never look on their images as any other , than symbols or representations of that being to which they gave divine worship ; for which purpose i produced several testimonies of celsus , porphyrie , athanasius , arnobius , s. augustin , max. tyrius , iulian and eusebius , from whence i desired to know whether these men , who worshipped images on those grounds , did amiss or no in it ? i do not ask , as my words are expresly , whether they were mistaken as to the objects of their worship ; but on supposition they were not , whether they were to blame in the manner of serving god by images , in such a way as they describe ? if not , wherefore doth s. paul pitch upon that , to condemn them for , which they were at not all to blame in ? he ought , i said , to have done , as the iesuits in china did , who never condemned the people for worshipping images , but for worshipping false gods by them , and perswaded them not to lay them aside , but to convert them to the honour of the true god ; and so melted down their former images , and made new ones of them . can we imagine s. paul meant the same thing , when he blames men , not for believing them to be gods , but that god could be worshipped by the work of mens hands , and for changing thereby the glory due to god in regard of his infinite and incorruptible being , into mean and unworthy images , thinking thereby to give honour to him ? and upon these grounds , i there shew , that the primitive fathers disputed against the heathen idolatry : for the making use of corporeal representations makes the deity contemptible , saith clemens of alexandria . origen saith , that christians have nothing to do with images , because of the second commandment ; and on that account will rather dye , than defile themselves with them ; and that it is impossible any one that knows god , should pray to them : that it is no sufficient excuse to say , they do not take them for gods , but only for symbols or representations of them , for they must be ignorant , mean , and unlearned persons , who can imagine the work of an artificer can be any representation of a deity . i shewed further , that many of the wiser heathens themselves condemned the worship of god by images , as incongruous to a divine nature , and a disparagement to the deity , as zeno , xenophanes , antisthenes , xenophon , numa , varro , and many others . having thus laid down so much of my former discourse together , as was necessary to understand the state of the controversie , i come now to consider what t. g. doth answer to it . . to the places of s. paul , acts . . and rom. . . he saith , that no one ever denyed the unsuitableness of the worship of such images to the divine nature , as are conceived to be proper likenesses , or representations of the divinity , of which s. paul speaks in the first place ; or of the images of the false gods of the heathens , of which he speaks in the latter . in reply to this , i begin with the first place , acts . . where , he saith , it is plain from s. pauls words , that they thought the divinity to be like to the images they made of gold and silver : and this was a mighty argument from the mouth of s. paul to drive that erroneous conceit out of the minds of the athenians , who believed the divinity to be like the images they made ; but none at all from my pen against catholicks , who detest the thoughts of having or making any such image . this then is the question between us , whether s. paul's discourse against the athenians did proceed only on the supposition of the divinity being like to their images , or whether the dissimilitude between them be not made use of by the apostle as an argument to shew that images are not a proper suitable means whereby to worship god ? for which we are to consider the apostles scope and design ; which certainly was to convince them of their idolatry . for it is said , ver . . that his spirit was stirred within him , when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry ; and in the beginning of his speech he takes notice of their bigoterie in the heathen worship , ver . . & . that among their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. idols , saith theophylact , he had espied an altar with this inscription , to the unknown god : and upon this he takes an occasion more fully to discover him whom they ignorantly worshipped , and withal to shew the unreasonableness of their worshipping god at all by images . if the apostles design had been , as t. g. imagines , to drive that erroneous conceit out of the minds of the athenians , that the divinity was like to their images ; his spirit should not have been moved , at the sight of their images , but at their discourses about them when he heard them own the divinity to be like them . for , in case they only looked on their images as helps to their devotion ; or as analogical representations of some divine perfections , although they did worship god by them , t. g. must think then s. paul a little too hasty to be so soon angry at the sight of them ; for upon this ground his spirit might be stirred within him , at the sight of the altars and devotions in rome , as well as athens . but s. paul did not wait for any decree of the areopagus in this matter ; he saw enough to inflame his zeal , in their practices , and publick worship , without looking after any distinctions of their sophisters and school-divines ; although there were many upon the place ready to justifie every rite of their worship , and that would not let go one tittle of their grossest superstitions for all the truth and reason in the world . they could find out as many analogies and metaphorical significations as other men ; and thought it as little disparagement to the deity to worship him under the several representations of minerva , ceres or bacchus , when by these they understood the several effects of gods wisdom and goodness in giving the fruits of the earth , as others can in representing him as an old man with a popes crown on his head ; or with one head and three faces , as some that are no athenians have done . for gods sake , which of the two are more apt to beget in mens minds such apprehensions of god , that he is like to men ; those who make and expose such images of the god they worship , or such who made an inscription upon an altar to the unknown god ? and if he were unknown , how came they to know him to be so like themselves ? what need s. paul take such pains to drive a conceit out of their heads , which for all that we see , never entered into them ? if indeed s. paul had seen over that altar a grave image of a man in pontifical robes , with an hoary head , a long beard , and a triple crown ; he would probably have asked them , how the athenians , that were witty men , could be guilty of such an absurdity , to call that an altar to the unknown god , when they were so familiarly acquainted with him as to know the very cut of his beard , and fashion of his crown ? but , as superstitious as the athenians were , they were not so ridiculous ; but yet because they supposed this god might be pleased with the worship of the idols , that were not only in the temples , but in the streets and forum of athens ( where thucydides saith , there were twelve altars ) therefore s. paul discourseth of this god after such a manner , as to shew how unsuitable such a way of worship was to his nature , and perfections , . from his infinite power , v. , . god that made the world and all things in it , seeing that he is lord of heaven and earth , dwelleth not in temples made with hands , neither is worshipped with mens hands . can any thing be plainer , than that here s. paul disputes against their worship , and not their opinion ? he finds no fault with their opinion about the true god , but only that it was not clear and distinct enough , in that he was too much the unknown god among them ; he takes it for granted , that one supream god , creator of the world was acknowledged by them ; and from the consideration of that infinite power of his , he shews how unreasonable it was for them to circumscribe him within their temples , or to worship him by their images : for what are all these images of yours , which you are so fond of , and so unwilling to part with ? although they were the statues of phidias or polycletus , or the pictures of xeuxes , or apelles , yet still they are but the work of mens hands : and what are these to the heavens and the earth , which he hath made ? if any image deserve worship , it is one of gods making , and not of your own ; but since no image can represent the infinite perfections of the great creator , never think to honour him by your foolish puppets , and babies of dirt and clay . this is the design of the apostles argument ; but what doth this signifie to their thinking the divinity to be like themselves ? for whether god were like or unlike to their images , yet still they were the work of mens hands : as a picture is still the work of the painter , although never so unlike the person for whom it is intended ; but s. paul condemns them for worshipping god with the work of mens hands , i. e. with images and statues ; as being infinitely below the greatness of that divine power , for the sake of which we give divine worship to him . . from his infinite perfection ; manifested by his self-sufficiency , needing nothing , v. . and from his communicating to his creatures what is needful for them , seeing he giveth to all life and breath and all things . now what can there be more unsuitable to the honour of such a being , than to be worshipped by such dull , senseless , contemptible pieces of earth , which have not in them the perfection of the meanest animal , to whom god hath given life and breath ; that are so far from representing the perfection and self-sufficiency of the divine nature , that they are not in the least able to help themselves ? but when by the help of wedges and beetles an image is cleft out of the trunk of some well grown tree , ( that little dreamt of the honour which was like to come to the dullest part about it , after it should pass through the several refinings of the carpenters ax , whose blows it endured with admirable patience , and of the painters pencil , whose miniature adds much beauty and glory to it ) yet after all the skill of artificers to set forth such a divine block , it cannot one moment secure it self from being eaten by worms , or defiled by birds , or cut in pieces by axes ; or , if any of these sail , from decaying through meer standing . or suppose , this worshipful idol be made of a harder substance , and after its being digged out of the earth , and sawed , and carved , and polished , and with much ado brought into the resemblance of a man , and a rude symbol of the deity , and set up for the adoration of mankind ; yet still it wants the things which are above the utmost power of man , but are given to the least mite , viz. life , and sense , and motion , and an admirable contrivance of the instruments of these ; yet such mean and pittiful things as these , will the folly of mankind find out to represent the greatest and the most perfect being in the world . judge now whether things that want life , and breath , and all things , are fit means whereby to worship him who giveth all these things to his creatures ? or whether those things , which need the art of man to make them , and his continual care to preserve them , are fit to represent that being , which stands in need of nothing ? . from his infinite presence , v. , . that they should seek the lord , if haply they might feel after him and find him , though he be not far from every one of us : for in him we live and move and have our being . one of the most plausible arguments of idolaters in all ages was , that by the help of images they did represent the object of their worship as present to them , so as thereby to be put more in mind of him , and to excite their reverence and devotion ; but s. paul tells the athenians , there was no need of any such representations of gods presence , for he is not far from every one of us , for in him we live and move and have our beings : and that man who will not find god in those admirable effects of his power , wisdom , and goodness we carry continually about us , will hardly find him in the senseless representations of wood and stone : and he that will not stand in awe of him , as he governs the world , will hardly fear him , when he is set forth in shape of a man , although he have a thunderbolt in his hand . . from the disparity between god and images , v. . for as much then , as we are the offspring of god , we ought not to think that the godhead is like to gold , or silver , or stone graven by art or mans device . upon which words , lorinus a iesuit makes this paraphrase , forasmuch as the athenians following their own poets , do confess , that we are the living image of god , they ought to think that material idols made by the art of men , which fall far short of the perfection of nature , are infinitely distant from the divine power , by which we obtain a dignity far above these material things ; and since we cannot express this image of god in us by any lines , much less can we the divine original , so that it is the grossest ignorance to affirm , that god can dwell , or be included or worshipped in or by their altars , or images , ( for so delubra must be understood by him if he speaks pertinently , for although sometime it signifies a temple with more images than one , yet servius withal saith , it signifies a wooden image , and so festus understands it ; which things i am forced to explain , to prevent cavilling ; for otherwise t. g. would have complained of my perverting the sense of authors , as he hath done very unjustly , as will appear in this chapter . ) but lorinus , after having brought the several places of scripture against making any image of god , thinks to salve all by saying , they are to be understood of such images , as represent him to the life , ( as though it were possible for any to do it ) or such which they worshipped for gods , which the heathens utterly denyed , that they did . cornelius à lapide , after several vain attempts , to make out the force of the apostles argument , at last concludes this to be it ; that since our soul according to which we are the offspring of god , cannot be painted , or represented in gold , silver , or stone , being incorporeal and spiritual ; much less can the divinity be painted or represented by them , being a pure spirit , and the fountain of spirits . estius agrees , that this is the force of the apostles argument , from whence , he saith , he doth not infer , that we ought not to think gold , silver , or stone , to be god ; although he might have done it ( but to little purpose ) because , saith he , he spake to the athenians , among whom were many philosophers , learned and wise men , who did not with the vulgar , think their images to be gods , although they worshipped them together with them ; but they believed their gods to be represented by them , as by their images . if he speaks of the epicureans , there is some ground for it ; for what deity they acknowledged , they supposed to be as-if-coporeal , and of humane shape ; but he is much mistaken , that doth not account them rather atheists than idolaters ; and as to the other athenian philosophers , i shall make it appear to be a gross mistake , to suppose that they thought their gods to be of humane shape ; but of that hereafter . the thing i now insist upon is , that the apostle's shewing the disparity between god and images , is not meerly to drive out the opinion of anthropomorphitism , but from hence to shew farther the folly of idolatry ; for if images fall so much short of the infinite perfections of god , there can be but this plea left , that they are like to him , and therefore we may worship god by them , for the sake of their resemblance of him ; now this the apostle shews to be as vain and idle a pretence as any of the rest , there being no manner of resemblance between the workmanship of gold , silver , and stone , and an infinite and spiritual being . . from the necessity of repentance , and the consideration of a future judgement , v. , . if all the apostle had aimed at , was only to rectifie an erroneous conceit of the athenians about the divinity being like to their images , he had taken away the force of his exhortation to repentance , from the consideration of a judgement to come : because such an erroneous conceit may possess men of innocent minds and free from idolatry , as it was the case of the monks in aegypt , of whom epiphanius , and s. austin speak ; and whom epiphanius supposeth to have been very harmless men , saving only their separation from the church : nay , he doth not seem to apprehend any dangerous consequence of their opinion : which we need not wonder at , if that which nicephorus saith be true , viz. that epiphanius was an anthropomorphite himself . and yet epiphanius is well known to have been as great an enemy to image-worship , and all kind of idolatry , as any person that lived in his age. the same is observable of tertullian and lactantius , whereof the one attributed corporeity to god , and the other shape and figure , as our adversaries confess ; and yet both these were vehement disputers against the heathen idolatry . from whence we see , that there is no necessary connexion between this opinion , and the practice of idolatry , or the worship of images : and yet there is altogether as good reason why god should be worshipped by an image , on that supposition , as why christ should be by a crucifix since his incarnation ; which is t. g's great argument on all occasions . but those who supposed god to be like to men , might yet think it unreasonable to worship god by the work of mens hands ; and if arbitrary representation be a sufficient ground of worship , then natural would be much more so , and consequently it would be more reasonable for men to worship one another , than to worship images : and all the same distinctions and pleasant evasions would serve for one , as well as they do for the other . i desire now to know of t. g. whether the athenians were to blame only for this erroneous conceit of theirs , in thinking the divinity to be like their images ? if this were all their fault , ( . ) i dare undertake to prove , that many among them were wholly innocent , viz. those who followed the schools of plato and zeno , besides those of the people who took their images for symbols of the divinity . ( . ) s. paul takes very needless pains to make use of such arguments against image-worship , which do not suppose any opinion of similitude between god and the image ; as the incongruity of images to the divine power , perfection , and presence . ( . ) why doth he call upon them so earnestly to repent ? was it only of an erroneus conceit ? and that of such a nature , that the argument made use of by him , to move them to repentance , was rather apt to confirm them in that opinion , viz. that god would judge the world by that man whom he hath appointed . if a man be appointed to judge the world , the management of which must imply infinite wisdom and power , what absurdity , might they say , is it in us to suppose the images of men to represent god , as he is the object of worship ? for if the humane nature be capable of union to the divinity , why might it not be so united alwayes , as well as at the end of the world ? and if it be united , then that humane nature might be represented in an image , and the divine nature honoured by worshipping that representation . which being supposed to be lawful , the apostles argument loses its force ; for the subtile athenians might easily have answered s. paul , that there was no more repugnancy in supposing god to have assumed a humane body from eternity , than that he should do it so lately in iudea ; which being supposed , their defence naturally follows , for they could not be so foolish to imagine their images to be like the divine nature in it self , but to that humane body which was assumed by the divine nature . and that this is no extravagant supposition , will appear by this , that several of the antient christian writers had an opinion very like this , viz. that when god is said to have made man after his own image , it is to be understood of that humane figure and shape , which god had then assumed , which was the exemplar according to which man was created : thus prudentius and the audiani are understood by petavius ; and some passages of tertullian look much this way : and augustinus steuchus eugubinus a learned but zealous papist , contends for the necessity of this opinion , because man saw god walking , and heard him speaking in paradise , and because of the frequent appearances of god in humane shape , mentioned in the old testament . and to confirm this , he brings that verse of ovid , et deus humana lustro sub imagine terras . and those of catullus , praesentes namque ante , domos invisere castas saepius & sese mortali ostendere coetu , coelicolae , nondum spreta pietate solebant . and he shews that the fictions of homer and the rest of the poets , as to the appearances of the gods in humane shape , had their true original from hence , that god did at first assume the nature of man , according to which man was said to be framed after the image and similitude of god. but s. paul , although he asserts the incarnation of christ , yet deriving the argument against the worship of god by images , from the consideration proper to the divinity , we ought not to think , that the godhead is like to gold , &c. doth thereby teach us , that that which is disagreeing to the divine nature which is the proper object of worship , cannot be a proper means for us to worship god by : so that although the images made by men only represent the humane nature assumed by the divine , yet because the godhead is not like unto them , we ought not to worship god by them . for otherwise the athenians were meer blockheads ( if it were lawful to worship the divine nature of christ before an image of his humane , and to give the same worship to one which belongs to the other ) that they did not deny s. pauls consequence ; for what if the godhead be not like to our images , it doth not follow , that we may not give them divine worship as long as god hath often appeared in humane shape among us , and we may give worship to the representation of that nature wherein he appeared , and the same that belongs to the divine nature , which did assume it . and i confess , i cannot see how t. g. could have defended s. paul upon his supposition ; for according to t. g.'s principles , although before the incarnation of christ , the worship which people gave to the images of gold , was incongruous to the divine nature , and a disparagement to the deity ; yet to those to whom the mysterie of god made man is revealed , it is no disparagement to him to be represented in the likeness of man , and to be worshipped by such an image . very well ; say the athenians , and so say we too . to worship god by any image , as representing his infinite and invisible nature is folly and madness ; but to make images of him according to his several appearances for the good of mankind in the likeness of men , is no disparagement to the deity ; nor to be worshipped by such an image . let t.g. therefore either say , that s. paul argues inconsequently , or acknowledge that the force of his argument doth hold against the worship of any representations of god. for it is plain to any man that hath any use of his senses , that s. paul doth not argue against any meer erroneous conceit of the athenians , but against their idolatrous worship , which he first shews to be unreasonable by many arguments , and then tells them , god now commanded them to repent , and adds the most forcible motive to perswade them to it , from the proceedings of the future judgement . but i have not yet done with t.g. about this place . is it not t. g. that , when he fixed his foot , as he saith , and deliberately enquired what the supream god of the heathens was , tells us in plain terms it was the devil , and an arch-devil ; and this he doth , he saith , for gods sake ? saith he so indeed ? and was this unknown god at athens whom they ignorantly worshipped , and s. paul declared , the devil and an arch-devil ? no : for here he grants , that the athenians thought the divinity to be like their images ; what divinity doth he mean ? surely , not the divinity of an arch-devil . but i see , those that believe transubstantiation , are capable of speaking as well as believing contradictions . yet , it is possible t. g. may imagine that the athenians meant one divinity , and s. paul another . so some say s. paul plaid the sophister with the athenians , and when the true inscription was to the unknown gods ; he , because it served better to his purpose , reads it in the singular number , to the unknown god. but as cajetan wisely answers , the authority of s. paul affirming there was such an inscription , ought to be valued above those who deny it ; and saith he , if there had not been any such , the athenians who were by , might presently have charged s. paul with falshood , in saying he met with an inscription to the unknown god , when there was none such among them . lorinus shews from several testimonies of s. austin that the athenians did worship the true god : and that in case the inscription had run only in the plural number s. paul had drawn a conclusion out of false premises , whereas isidore pelusiota admires the irresistible force of s. pauls reasoning , being built upon premises , which are confessed by the adversaries ; as he disputed with the iews out of the scriptures , so he did with the men of athens from the inscription on one of their own altars . this being then taken for granted by s. paul , that the athenians did acknowledge and worship the true god , how come they to be charged with idolatry in worshipping images , if it be lawful to worship the true god ▪ by an image ? especially since their intention was , as ferus saith expresly , by their idols to worship the true god. i beseech t. g. to reconcile this , if he can , with making idolatry to consist in taking images for gods , or for the representations of false gods ; for here was neither , and yet the athenians were condemned for idolatry ; and ferus confesses , that those were idols , whereby they designed to worship the true god ; how can that be , if actions pass whither they are intended ; for how can that worship be terminated on an image , according to t. g's divinity , which is designed to pass through it to god ? and that the true god was meant by the athenians , corn. à lapide saith , is manifest from hence , that s. paul was otherwise bound to shew , that it was not the true god which they worshipped , and to tell them who was the true ; whereas here s. paul saith , he declared to them the same god whom they ignorantly worshipped ; which had been very unbecoming the sincerity and faithfulness of so great an apostle , in case he knew , they did not worship the true god when he told them they did : for this was at once to deceive , to flatter , to betray them ; and that in a matter , upon which the salvation of their souls did depend : which of all persons was most unworthy of the apostle of the gentiles , whose business it was to turn men from idols to god , to serve the true and living god. but t. g. asks , to what purpose this place was brought by me ? ( if he did not understand it before , i hope , he will do it now : ) except i intended , he saith , the reader to believe the papists to be no wiser than the athenians . i wish in this matter they were as wise ; for it were better for them to erect altars to an unknown god , than to make those absurd , scandalous , and horrible representations of the mysterie of the trinity : from whence some of the antitrinitarians have taken occasion to expose that sacred mysterie to scorn and contempt , and have published a book on purpose , to set forth the images of the trinity , which are publickly seen and allowed in the roman church . but the athenians , he tells us from s. chrysostom , were so possessed with a wrong apprehension of the nature of god , that when they heard s. paul speak of anastasis , they thought her to be some new goddess . if they had gone much farther , and worshipped this anastasis , i think the athenians had done no worse , than those who worship with solemn devotion saints that never were in the world ; and after so long a time of worship of s. christopher , and s. george , the wisest among them cannot to this day tell , whether they were saints , or allegories : and if t. g. please , he shall take baronius his saint synoris , to joyn with the athenian goddess anastasis ; or if this will not content him , let him take other three saints which he may find in some old litanies , of their church , as i have done , viz. s. faith , s. hope , and s. charity ; all three daughters of a grave matron , called s. sapientia ; but which far outgoes the athenian devotion , every one of these hath an ora pro nobis added to it ; but what work would t. g. have made with the poor athenians , if they had cryed sancta anastasis ora pro nobis ? yet he may find as gross absurdities nearer home . i now come to the second place , rom. . , . in which t. g. saith , nothing can be more clear , than that the apostle speaketh there of the idols or images of the heathens ; for after he had laid down the matter of fact which he condemned , viz. that although they knew god , yet they did not glorifie him as god , but changed the glory of the incorruptible god into an image made like to corruptible man , he adds also , and to birds , and fourfooted beasts , and creeping things , ( which words , he saith , were clapt under deck by me with an &c. because they plainly declare what kind of images the apostle meant ) and then v. . tells us , that by so doing , they changed the truth of god into a lye , and worshipped and served the creature rather than the creator : which words , he saith , are so plain , that i had no way to evade them , but by saying that the apostle discoursed against the philosophers , and the wiser heathens : whom he proves from s. chrysostom , to have been guilty of the same idolatry with the people ; and instances in the aegyptians , and plato , and socrates , who commanded a cock to be offered to aesculapius . for the clearing the sense of this place , we are to consider , . who the persons were that s. paul speaks off . . what he affirms concerning them . . t. g. saith , the words are so plain , that i could find no evasion , but to say . that the apostle doth not discourse against the most gross and sottish idolaters , but the philosophers and the wisest among them ; but doth t. g. in good earnest call this an evasion ? was it an evasion in cajetan , when he saith , s. paul here reproved the sin of the philosophers ; and that the philosophers were they who detained the truth in unrighteousness : that the philosophers did either make , or worship images , therefore they changed the glory due to god ? was it nothing but meer evasion in vasquez , when he saith , the apostle designs to prove , that the philosophers , both had the true knowledge of god , and held it in unrighteousness ? or in estius , when he saith in plain terms , the apostle speaks of the philosophers ? and instanceth in pythagoras , socrates , plato , aristotle , trismegist , and seneca , who although they did know the true god , yet none of them worshipped him as they ought to do . i need not mention s. austin , who in many places applyes this to the philosophers , as appears by beda's commentary , when even the words of s. chrysostom shew this to be far enough from an evasion ; what is that to the philosophers ? marry , i answer , as t.g. translates him , that what hath been said most of all concerns them ; but this doth not fully express his meaning , for his words are , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or as some copies read it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , all that hath been said doth most of all concern them , or altogether ; and the greek scholiast , saith , that it is plain s. paul strikes at the wise men among the greeks , and those who were like them . origen saith , he speaks of some of the wise men of greece . by these and many more testimonies , if it were needful to heap them in so clear a case , it appears sufficiently , that this was no evasion of mine , but the natural sense , which their own commentators , and the fathers agree in . . as to what the apostle affirms of them , viz. that they held the truth in unrighteousness , v. . i. e. saith the greek scholiast , that they gave the worship of god to idols ; for the knowledge of god is truth , and the deceitfulness of idols is unrighteousness . hear , saith theophylact , what it is to detain the truth in unrighteousness , the truth or the knowledge of god is naturally put into all mens minds from the beginning ; this knowledge or truth the greeks held in unrighteousness , i. e. they did all the injury to it they could , by giving the glory of god to idols ; and both herein follow s. chrysostom , who saith , they did it , by giving the glory of god to wood and stone . this the apostle afterwards inlarges upon , when he saith , that knowing god they did not glorifie him as god , neither were thankful , but became vain in their imagination , and their foolish heart was darkned . professing themselves to be wise , they became fools , and changed the glory of the incorruptible god into an image made like to corruptible man , and to birds and fourfooted beasts , and creeping things . and for the sense of this charge i am content to appeal to the judgements of the most allowed interpreters on both sides , that hat have not been parties in the quarrel . they thought themselves wise , saith s. hierom or the author of the commentaries under his name , as those that had found out , quomodo invisibilis deus , per simulachrum visibile coleretur ; how an invisible god might be worshipped by a visible representation : which is the sense of simulachrum there ; for he supposes the worship to be directed to the invisible god through the image , and therefore the image could not be taken either for god , or a representation of a false god ; so that nothing can be more clear ( to use t. g's words ) according to s. hierom , than that t. g. professing to be wise , doth thereby discover his folly , when he saith , that s. paul speaks of those who took the images themselves for gods ; or worshipped the images of false gods. and the philosophers professing to be wise , did become fools , because saith s. hierom , they did not understand that what is mortal and corruptible , could have no resemblance to what is immortal and eternal . the greek scholiast saith , they became vain in their imaginations , when they would represent him in a figure that had none , and comprehend him in corporeal images , that was wholly spiritual ; not as though they were such fools to think to shut up infinity within the bounds of an image ; but to comprehend , there is taken with relation to that representation which conveys a thing to the mind ; and so he useth it a little after , they thought themselves wise , because they thought they could comprehend every thing : and so the image was supposed to be such a species as did convey an intellectual being to the mind . the same words are used by theophylact ; which they both borrowed from s. chrysostom , who condemns the greeks for their folly , not for comprehending , but for seeking a spiritual and incorporeal being , in corporeal images . and what can be more foolish , saith the scholiast and theophylact , than to fall down before stocks and stones ? and origen doth express the meaning of the apostle in this place as fully as i can desire , when he applyes all these expressions to those that had a right notion and conception of god in their minds , but gave divine worship to all sorts of images , as well of beasts , as of men , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the honour of the deity . and in truth , the apostles supposition being allowed , that these philosophers did know the true god , and his eternal power and godhead , we must suppose them to be turned stark staring fools , that should take the images either of men or beasts to be gods : but it is very agreeable to the philosophers practice and opinions to give external worship to these images , when they in the mean time did direct that external worship to the honour of the invisible deity . but the sense of this and the former place will be made more evident by a diligent enquiry into the state of the controversie about the worship of images between the christians and heathens . ( . ) whether it was that the heathens took their images for proper likenesses of the deity ? or , ( . ) that they worshipped only the images of false gods , or that they took their images themselves for gods ? and if the controversie did not wholly relate to these things , then it will follow , that it was of the same nature with that between us and the church of rome . i shall therefore shew , . that the wiser heathens concerning whom the dispute is , did not suppose their images to be proper likenesses of their gods. which i prove , . from the nature and kinds of their images . . from the notions they had of their gods. . from the nature and kinds of their images . there are three sorts of images which were worshipped among the heathens , . such as had no artificial shape or figure . . such as had an artificial shape , but it was of no real being . . such as had the shape either of men or beasts . of the two first , and those of beasts , i suppose , no man professing himself to be wise , will shew himself such a fool to say , that the heathens thought their gods to be like them . my business therefore as to them , is to shew that there were such among them to which they did give divine worship . . for images without any artificial shape , or figure . by images here i mean some external visible things which are designed to represent some other thing to our minds . so tully calls characters , verborum imagines , and the countenance , imaginem animi ; in which no exact resemblance can be understood , but some thing which is intended to represent another thing to us , which doth not depend on the nature of things , but the arbitrary institution of men ; as may be seen by the notes and characters of tyro and seneca ; of which no account can be given , why they represent one thing rather than another , but only the will of the maker of them . thus if men agreed that a spear , a cymiter , a trunk , a mountain , a rude stone , or a pyramid should be set up to represent the deity to them which they worshipped , every one of these did thereby become the image of that deity . herodotus , solinus , clemens alexandrinus , arnobius , and ammianus marcellinus , all agree that the antient scythians had no other image of a deity among them , but only a scythian sword , which herodotus calls the image of mars , and he saith , they sprinkled the blood of the sacrifice upon it . clemens alexandrinus and arnobius tell us from varro , that the antient romans worshipped a spear for mars , which is also affirmed by iustin ; and the thespians a bough for cinxia or iuno ; the icarians an unhewn piece of wood for diana ; the samii a frame of wood for iuno ; the pessinuntii a flint for the mother of the gods ; which was carried by the roman ambassadours from phrygia to rome , saith livy ; called religiosa silex by claudian . the arabians , an unpolished stone ; which was square , saith maximus tyrius , of a black colour , saith suidas , without any shape or figure upon it , four foot high and two broad , to which they sacrifice , and sprinkle the blood upon it . euthymius charges the mahumetans with idolatry for kissing the stone bracthan ; concerning which , they have several fabulous traditions , of its being one of the stones of paradise , and coming down from thence with adam , &c. which is placed in one of the corners of the caaba , or temple at mecca , above two cubits above ground , and was stolen from thence by the karmatiani , hoping to draw away the pilgrims ; but finding it would not do , they restored it to the inhabitants of mecca twenty years after , who knew it to be the genuine stone , as they said , by its swimming above water ; which our learned dr. pocock conjectures to have been one of the idols of the old arabs , as the temple at mecca was one of their idol-temples ; but the mahumetans say they worship it out of a respect to abraham ; as they do another stone , wherein they say are the footsteps of abraham to be seen , at which they say their prayers ; as others do at loretto , before a madonna of the same complexion with the stone bracthan ; of which colour i suppose the same reason may be given which the mahumetans do of the stone bracthan , viz. that it came purely white out of heaven , but was turned black by the sins of the people . such another idol was manah or meneth , which was of old worshipped between mecca and medina ; which the arabick writers call a rock or a stone ; and was probably as the same author conjectures , the meni mentioned isa. . . and saad , which he describes to be an oblong stone lying on the shore . the paphians , max. tyrius saith , worshipped venus under the representation of a white pyramid : and the lacedaemonians saith pausanias , erected after the ancient custome , seven pillars to the seven planets ; and the same author affirms it to have been the ancient custome of all the greeks to set up unpolished stones instead of images , to the honour of the gods ; which testimony is very considerable , not only because it makes it the most ancient , but an universal custome among the greeks ; and near the statue of mercury , he saith , there were thirty square stones , which the pharii worshipped , and gave to every one the name of a god. pausanias mentions many other such images remaining in greece after the ancient mode , as of hercules in boeotia , of cupid among the thespienses , of the graces among the orchomenii , where he saith , the people worship the stones which they believed to have dropt down from heaven . they were wont , saith hesychius , to have altars before the doors in the fashion of a pillar , which was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; some , saith harpocration , make these proper to apollo , others to bacchus , others to both ; these were common at athens , as appears by the testimonies of cratinus , menander and sophocles quoted by harpocration ; and sophocles , he saith , applyed that athenian custome to troy , in his laocoon , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. whom suidas follows . stephanus byzant . saith , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were obelisks erected to the honour of the gods ; for which he quotes eupolis . it seems both pyramids and altars were called by this name among them , being both designed for the worship of their gods : and it is not improbable those rude pyramids in yorkshire , mentioned by cambden , called the devils bolts , and many such in denmark , by olaus wormius , might be first erected for the same purpose , this custome having been so general . peter della valle , in his late travels in the indies , saith , that at ahmedabad , there was a famous temple of mahadeù , wherein there was no other image but a little column of stone , after a pyramidal form , but ending at the top in a round figure ; which mahadeù , he saith , in their language signifies the great god , and after this fashion , he saith , it is the custom of the brachmans to represent mahadeù ; the like he observes at manèl . although that author takes the liberty to call this an idol , i do not see with what conscience t. g. could do it ; for an idol according to him doth signifie either a representation of some imaginary being , or in the utmost sense , something which is falsely esteemed and worshipped as god ; but this pyramid to represent mahadeù or the great god , was neither a representation of an imaginary being , nor was it self taken for god , and therefore was no idol , nor the worship given to god by it idolatry : and upon his principles , the worship of the gioghi is very justifiable by the law of god , for this is not a representation by which men are in danger of being anthropomorphites ; but only hath some analogical and metaphorical signification ; and therefore it is no disparagement to the deity to be thus represented . thus it falls out , as i foresaw , that t. g. could not justifie the practice of their own church , but he must unavoidably justifie that which is condemned by it , viz. the heathen idolatry . but to proceed , herodian describing the worship of alagabalus at emesa in phoenicia , saith , that he had no kind of image after the greek , or roman fashion made by mens hands ; but a great stone round at the bottom , lessening by degrees , after the fashion of a cone ; and of a black colour , ( like the stone bracthan , ) which they say , was not made by mens hands , but fell down from heaven . it is great pity gretser had not put it into his book , de imaginibus non manufactis ; together with that of the pessinuntii in herodian ; and of diana of ephesus ; and of the graces among the orchomenii ; which were all believed to have come from heaven , as well as those mentioned by gretser ; and the evidence is much alike for them all ; and for the miracles wrought by them , peter della valle saith , that the image of mahadeù was in great reputation among the indians for working miracles ; and in another place he saith , there were persons who believed themselves cured of sore eyes by the idols , and made their presents of silver and golden eyes , and some iewels ( as they do in other places on occasion of the like miracles ) and notwithstanding what della valle intimates of the honesty of roman priests in comparison of the gioghi , in this matter of miracles , a man might venture a great deal on their heads , that they come behind none of them in any thing that tends to deceive the people . and i do not at all wonder , that this gentleman seeing their solemn processions in mighty numbers , in pilgrimage to certain places of devotion , should so naturally think of the carrying of the images of saints by a fraternity in procession to loretto or rome in the holy year ; any more than that seeing the tricks of hamant or the holy apes in the indies , should bring to his mind those he had seen plaid by some creatures much of the same kind in europe . but leaving the consideration of gretsers divine images to another place , i return to the stone of alagabalus , whereof there were more than one according to lampridius , who saith , lapides qui divi dicuntur ex proprio templo , &c. he took out of the temple of alagabalus the stones which were called gods : where the great criticks are strangely confounded by joyning this clause with that which follows of the image of diana from laodicea , and are very hard put to it , to tell what image , and what laodicea this was ; a late author supposes them to be the same with those stones mentioned in pausanias , and that it was laodicea of achaia which he meant ; but tristan hath shewn the true sense by dividing the clauses ; for the stones mentioned before , had no relation to laodicea , but to the proper temple of the deity from whom heliogabalus took his name . salmasius instead of the lapides qui divi dicuntur , would have it read lapides qui vivi dicuntur , alluding to the boetulia , which philo byblius calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the animated stones , of which he speaks in his translation of sanchoniathons account of the phoenician idolatry : and the place agrees well enough with it ; and they did suppose a more than ordinary presence of god in those stones , for which reason they attributed life to them ; and the arabians called them the daughters of god , being as it were inspired with life by him , and believed that they could intercede with god for them ; and therefore they gave them divine honour ; of which sort , allat , alozza , and manah , are mentioned in the alcoran ; although some think alozza to have been the trunk of a tree , which was worshipped among the arabians . bern. de breitenbach saith , that they had two stones , one black which they called camos , and the other white which they called mercury ; which two they went twice a year to worship ; and the proper rites of their worship , were for the first , the casting of stones behind them , and for the other , burning incense , naked and shaven ; and not only the arabs , but the ammonites and moabites joyned in this worship . afterwards mahomet finding this worship among them , which was before designed to the honour of saturn and mars , continues the customes but turns the worship another way , and placed one of the stones in the corner of the temple , and the other he pitched in the ground in the middle , and required of all persons that came to mecca to kiss these stones , with their heads shaven and their backs naked , casting stones backward . petrus alphonsus translated out of arabick a conference between a christian and a saracen ; which is extant in vincentius bellovacensis , wherein we have the same account of the worship of the two stones ; but , he saith , the custome came first from the nations of the indies which were called xechiam , and albarachuma , i.e. saith scaliger , brachmani , who were wont to worship their gods after that manner , by kissing the corners of stones , and casting them behind them . maimonides saith , that markolis was worshipped by the casting of stones , and cemosh by shaving the head , &c. by markolis many understand mercury , but elias levita saith , he could find no such worship of him among the romans , but , he saith , it was the name of an idol whose peculiar worship that was , and was believed to be an intercessour between them , and the planet mercury from whom the name was derived . buxtorf gives this account of the figure of markolis , that it was after this fashion ; viz. two huge stones standing one against another ; and a third lying cross over them , covering the other two with one half of his bigness ; which , he saith , the rabbins called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 domum kolis ; thence , he saith , that the rabbins in avoda zara say , that three stones being placed after that manner are forbidden , because that was the figure of the idol markolis . ( what if our stonehenge were some such thing ? for the stones lye transversely upon each other after this figure , which neither belonged to a roman temple , nor the danish monuments ? ) towards these stones they were wont to cast stones , which was the proper rite of worship belonging to markolis ; and is still performed by the pilgrims to mecca , but directing their intention another way . this is done , saith scaliger on the mount arraphoth without mecca ; they cast them into the valley of mena , or akabah , saith dr. pocock from the arabick writers ; but they pretend to do it upon quite other grounds than the ancient idolaters did ; viz. in imitation of abraham , who they say , in that place sent the devil packing with a stone in his forehead when he came to interrupt him in the sacrificing of his jon ; others say , they do it out of opposition to idolatry , and in contempt of the idols formerly worshipped there . but the iews say , that he that useth a rite proper to idolatrous worship , though by way of contempt , is guilty ; and they instance particularly in this very thing ; however the mahumetans , having looked over aristotle 's threshold , do know that acts go whither they are intended , and for their parts , since they intend to knock the devil in the head with the stones they cast backward , the devil is like to suffer most by this custome ; especially , if it be true which some of the arabick writers say , that those stones do break the devils back . and what harm can there be in kissing and worshipping the stone bracthan , as long as they pretend to honour abraham by doing it ? for this is their pretence for it in damascen ; if relative worship be lawful , i do not see , why the mahumetans directing their intention to the god of abraham , are in any greater fault , than those who worshipping an image , direct their worship finally to god , but after a relative and inferiour manner , suffer it to fall upon the image for his sake . but damascen saith something farther , viz. that they who look more narrowly into this stone ( as some may see farther into a stone than others ) do find the image of venus , which they called chabar in it ; to which dr. pocock answers from the arabick writers , that this is both a mistake of one stone for another ; and that all the impression in that stone is as like the face of venus , as a mans heels are like his head ; unless , saith he , the mahumetans be so blind with superstition , as not to be able to distinguish the head and feet from each other ; for so abulfeda saith , it hath only the impression of abrahams feet ; but granting they were mistaken , and that they could not tell abrahams footstep from an ordinary pilgrims , yet methinks they should know some difference between the foot of a man , and the face of venus . and what reason is there to search for the figure of a face upon a stone , when i have already so fully proved it was the custome to worship rude and unpolished stones ; especially in those eastern parts , where the boetulia were in so much request , which many learned men do suppose to have come at first from the stone , which iacob anointed in bethel , and set up for a pillar there , to which the jews say , the canaanites afterwards gave divine worship ; and that from hence came the custome of worshipping such stones , and the name of them . which makes the conjecture of bochartus very probable , that sanchoniathon had written 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which the interpreter mistaking but one letter read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so rendered it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 animated stones , which was no more than anointed stones : which custome of anointing stones for worship , among the heathens , is mentioned by clemens alexandrinus , minutius , apuleius and others . s. augustin hath a passage very observable to our purpose concerning iacob , viz. that he did not anoint the stone at bethel after the custome of idolaters , as if he made it a god ; for , saith he , he did not worship the stone nor sacrifice to it ; where we not only find this custome of idolaters , but the meaning of that phrase in the fathers of taking their images for gods , by which they meant no more than what s. augustin here explains it by , viz. giving divine worship to them . damascius in photius , mentions many of these boetulia , that were seen by asclepiades on mount libanus near heliopolis in syria ; of which , he saith , some were consecrated to saturn , others to jupiter , others to the sun. maximus tyrius shews at large , that similitude to the deity was not regarded in the things they gave divine worship to , and looked on as symbols of the god they worshipped ; thus they gave divine honour to fountains , trees , tops of mountains , and mountains themselves ; as the inhabitants of west-barbary worshipped mount atlas ; and the cappadocians the mount argaeus , and others mount casius ; and so carmel is called in suetonius the god carmel : and that philosopher makes it an arbitrary thing , what kind of representations of the deity men make use of , as long as they are designed to put them in mind of god , and are worshipped with a respect to him . the ancient celtae , he saith , had no other image of jupiter but a great oak . the lacedemoans had some ancient images of the dioscuri , which they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which , saith plutarch , were nothing else , but two pieces of timber lying at an equal distance , with two others laid cross over them ; from whom eustathius repeats it . and tacitus saith , the old germans had no images of their deities of any humane figure ; and that they attributed the names of their gods to their groves : for they had as claudian expresses it robora , numinis instar . t. g. saith , it is evident from tacitus himself , that they had other figures and symbols in their consecrated groves ; although they had not any in the likeness of men , because they thought them unsuitable to the celestial deities ; but i desire to be informed by him , . how other figures come to be a less disparagement to the deity , than humane figures ? did they indeed think it less dishonour to god to be like a bruit , or a plant , or a cockboat than to be like a man ? did they who thought the images of men so much below their gods , take the others to be more agreeable to them ? . how doth tacitus make it appear , that they had other symbols and figures in the consecrated groves ? it is true that he saith , part of the suevi did sacrifice to isis ; but , he saith , this was a foreign religion , and he knows not how it came there , but he is sure by the figure it was foreign ? and doth this prove , that the religion of the germans did allow of images , because a religion was known to be foreign , by its image ? but this is the very quintessence of ingenuity , when he hath had no more to say against this testimony , and not a word against any of the rest , to conclude after this fashion , his other citations i took upon his word without examining them ( which i hardly take upon his word , finding him so ready to cavil upon the slightest occasion ) and the reader may guess by this out of tacitus , whether it be not likely i did him a kindness in it ; which i am content to leave to the readers ingenuity . we are certain it was the custome both of the germans and gauls , as well as other nations , to worship not only stones and fountains , but trees . pliny saith in general , that trees were looked on as temples of the gods ; and that the people did not more worship the images of gold and ivory , than they did the groves ; and the same quintilian saith , especially of aged oakes . curtius saith , the indians accounted all things gods which they worshipped , especially trees . the council of carthage mentions the remainders of idolatry in groves and trees as well as images . and there was no one custome of idolatry which the northern nations especially , were more hardly drawn from , after they had received christianity : which was therefore strictly forbidden in the capitular of carolus m. and the priests were severely punished if they did not discover those who did aut arbores , aut fontes , aut saxa venerari , which are the words there used . in the lombard laws , there is a constitution of luitprandus , against those that did worship ad arborem atque ad fontanas , before a certain tree , and at springs . othlonus in the life of boniface , not only mentions this custome , but that boniface did cut down a very great tree , which was called arbor iovis in a placed called gesmere ; which is in the lower hassia saith serrarius . agathias saith , that the germans worshipped trees and rivers , and hills and groves . in s. augustins time , we find this custome continued among many called christians , to pay their vows before certain trees , and to say their prayers at fountains ; for which he charges them with idolatry ; which trees , he saith , if they fell , they would not take a stick of them to burn , whereby they give honour to a dead tree , and contemn the precepts of the living god. the twelfth council of toledo produces the second commandment , and the other severe prohibitions of idolatry against this practice . the second council of arles hath a canon against the bishops , who suffer any such trees or stones to remain in their dioceses : the same hath the council of braga against presbyters . the second council of tours charges the priests to excommunicate those who did these things : le cointe by the stones understands the boundaries , at which the heathens did celebrate the terminalia , but without any bloody sacrifice , as he proves from dionys. halicarnassaeus , and plutarch . the synod of auxerre forbids christians paying their vows either before holy trees , or at fountains . the council of nantes commands the cutting down all such trees , and casting away the stones ; and that all people be told what a dreadful sin idolatry is , and that he that worships trees and stones , denies god and renounces his christianity ; with a great deal more to that purpose ; and yet all this while these men pretended to be christians , and to direct the intention of their worship aright ; which i beseech t. g. to observe ; for all the fault the council found with them was , that they did those things before trees and stones which ought to be done only in the church , viz. making their oblations and saying their prayers . and in the canons of eligius , this is one , nullus christianus ad fana , vel ad petras , vel ad fontes , vel ad arbores , aut ad cellos , vel per trivia , luminaria faciat , aut vota reddere praesumat . where we see these canons did respect christians and not infidels ; and several of them are inserted in the collection of canons by burchardus and regino : now i desire to be resolved by t. g. why it is not as lawful to say ones prayers in a consecrated grove , or at a fountain , or before a stone or pillar , as before a consecrated image ? hath god only forbidden groves and statues to be worshipped , and not images at all ? nay , one would think , that at the same time he had forbidden the one , he had commanded the other ; when we see how scrupulous these fathers were in the former , and how much the practice of devotion in the roman church , where it is openly and publickly allowed , consists in the other . surely a man is not more apt to think god to be like a tree , or a stone , than to the image of a man ; and if this argument of similitude signifies any thing , it tends to justifie these practises , condemned by so many councils ; and to condemn the worship of images in the likeness of men , which t. g. endeavours to justifie . and to let us see , how general this kind of worship was among the heathen idolaters , i shall conclude this discourse with a double testimony to this purpose . the one of dio chrysostome , who saith , the generality of the barbarous nations , called mountains , trees , and stones by the name of gods , i. e. as the greeks and romans did their images , to which they gave divine worship . the other of acosta ; who saith , the indians worshipped rivers , fountains , rocks , or great stones , hills and the tops of mountains , which they called apachita's , and all things in nature which seemed to have something extraordinary in them . . the heathens worshipped such images , as had some shape and figure , but it was not of any real being , but only imaginary . this i have so little reason to go about to prove against t. g. that he desires me , to take notice , that the heathens ( as origen , hom. . in exod. . and theodoret q. . in exod. tells us , when they expound the second commandment ) had two sorts of images ; some of which were purely figments or fictions of their own brain , made to represent what had no existence but in their own imaginations , as sphinxes , tritons , centaures , and the like ; and others which were made to represent such things , as had a real , and substantial being in the world , as the sun , moon and stars , &c. which they esteemed and worshipped as gods. i shall not now dispute , whether the idols forbidden in the second commandment , be only such representations ; nor whether . sphinxes , and centaures be such imaginary beings , ( for about the latter s. hierom is uncertain ; and a sphinx is nothing but an aethiopian ape , such as philostorgius saith himself saw ; ) but that which i insist upon , in this place , is , that this sort of images was not certainly unlawful on the account of similitude to the deity ; and those who thought so were not idolaters , but atheists ; for then they thought that to be like god , which was like to nothing . and if the athenians had any such as these , ( as they were as good at chimaera's as other people ) s. pauls argument would not reach to them ; and it seems s. paul mistook his point : for he , good man , thought he had been talking against idolatry at athens ; but it was no such matter ; for saith t. g. he talked against such images as were proper likenesses and representations of the divinity ; now the divinity certainly is a real being ; and idolatry is the worship of idols ; but an idol , saith t. g. is a representation of an imaginary being ; therefore those images s. paul spake against at athens were no idols ; and consequently s. paul doth not prove the athenians guilty of idolatry . but of these things more at large when i come to the second commandment . . they had artificial images of real beings ; in the likeness of men. and i shall now shew , that even these images were not set up or worshipped among the heathens , because they supposed the gods to be like them . for which , in the first place i shall produce this remarkable testimony of cicero , where he answers the epicurean argument for the gods being of humane form , because men are wont to represent them so ; quis tam caecus , saith he , in contemplandis rebus unquam fuit , ut non videret species istas hominum collatas in deos , aut consilio quodam sapientum , quo facilius animos imperitorum ad deorum cultum à vitae pravitate converterent ; aut superstitione , ut essent simulachra , quae venerantes , deos ipsos se adire crederent ? who was there ever so blind in the judgement of things , as not to see that the figures of men are attributed to the gods , either by the advice of wise men , the easier to draw rude and wicked people to the worship of them ; or out of superstition , that when they worshipped their images , they might believe they approached to the gods themselves ? where we observe , that these words are brought to disprove the epicurean opinion of the gods being like to men ; and he undertakes to give an account how they came to be represented in humane shape , although they were not like to it ; viz. . to make the notion of god more familiar and easie to rude and barbarous people , that knew not how to conceive of him , and therefore neglected his worship , which is all one with making them books for the ignorant laity . . to excite their devotion , that when they made their addresses to these images , they might believe they made them to the gods themselves . and according to t. g. what harm was there in all this ? provided that these were declared not to be proper likenesses of the deity ; and so we see they were , by their best and wisest men . but the people might imagine the gods to be like them ; and what then ? may they not do the same in the roman church , and with as good reason ? when they see god painted like a pope , with his crown and pontifical vestments ; may they not as reasonably think , that as the pope is gods vicar on earth , god himself is the pope in heaven . if they say they take care the people be better informed : not too much of that neither ; but did not cicero and others do the like by the heathens ? who argued against the folly of supposing the gods to be like men , and derided the epicureans for asserting it ; as men that neither understood the nature of gods , or men. and cicero in the same place is so far from looking on this practice of worshipping the gods in images of humane shape as universal , that he confesses it to be almost peculiar to the greeks and romans ; and saith , that the epicureans who did assert the gods , to have the members of mens bodies , but made no use of them , did only droll , and in words assert a deity , which in truth they denied . maximus tyrius debates the case about the several ways of representing god ; and although he makes the manner as indifferent , as whether our words be expressed in phoenician , or ionian , or attick , or aegyptian characters , they being all intended only as helps to our understandings and memories , and as far distant from the deity as heaven from earth ; yet , he saith , they are useful to the duller part of mankind , who like children are taught to read and understand , by these broader characters ; which are intended only as a manuduction to them ; yet , he prefers that which he calls the greek way , of representing the gods with the most exquisite art in humane figures ; but he doth it so timorously , that he only saith , it is not unreasonable ; not that he imagined the gods to be like them ; but only because the soul of man comes nearest to god ; and that habitation which god had chosen for a divine soul seemed the fittest to be a symbol of the invisible deity . but he does not blame the other nations which made use of other wayes of representing the deity ; which he must have done , if he had thought the greek images the proper likenesses of god ; for although he disputes against the persians and aegyptians , yet he concludes all at last with this saying , whether men worship god by the art of phidias , as the greeks ; or by the worship of living creatures , as the aegyptians ; or by the worship of rivers , or of fire , as other nations , i condemn not the variety ; let them only understand and love , and remember him whom they worship . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. in t. g.'s translation , let a man only direct his intention towards god , and then without doubt the actions go whither they are intended . and upon these grounds none of the heathens were to blame in the worship of images , provided they looked on them only as symbols , or analogical representations of the deity , as maximus tyrius saith they did , and directed their worship towards the supreme being , as he adviseth them all to do . for , saith he , god who is the father and maker of all things , elder than the sun and heaven , better than time , and age , and all fluid things , a lawgiver without name , that cannot be expressed with words , or seen with eyes ; whose essence being incomprehensible by us , we make use of all helps from sounds and words , and living creatures , and images of gold , and ivory , and silver , and plants , and rivers , and mountains , to bring us to the conception of him ; and because of our weakness , those things we account good we attribute to him , as lovers use to do , who delight in any representation of him they love ; and behold with great pleasure , the harp , or the dart , or the seat he sate upon , or the place he ran in , and whatever brings him to mind ▪ what need i say any more concerning images ? let god only be in the mind . is not this a vindication of heathen idolatry , to t. g.'s hearts desire ? for , saith t. g. is it not an honour to the king to kiss his picture ? and the very light of nature teaches that the honour or dishonour done to a picture , or image , reflects upon the person represented by it . now , saith max. tyrius , we look upon images , and trees , and rivers , and mountains but as so many imperfect pictures and representations of the deity ; but although they do not come near his beauty , yet we honour them for the sake of him whom they represent ; wherein we do but as great lovers do , we kiss the footsteps where he trod , we embrace , admire , and value things as they represent him , and bring him to our minds . and is there any thing more natural than this ? for is it not an honour to the king to kiss his picture ? or , as the emperour iulian more elegantly expresses it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. he that loves the king , takes pleasure in seeing the picture of the king , he that loves his child , loves any representation of him , and so doth he that loves his father ; even so , saith the devout emperour iulian by the meer light of nature , every one that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a lover of god , loves the representations of the gods , and beholding their images doth secretly fear and reverence them , which although invisible themselves do behold him . wherein we see how admirably iulian and t. g. have hit not only on the same principle of nature , but the very instance , and almost the very same expressions : it seems , this great man did not corrupt himself in those things he knew naturally , but pursued the light of nature towards the defence of pagan idolatry ; making the worship of images a part of natural religion , as t. g. doth . but what spight is this , for me to mention julian and t. g. together ? whereas it is well known that julian was against invocation of saints , and called that as great idolatry as the heathens , as t. g. notably observes against dr. st. but for all this iulian , though an apostate , and great enemy to christianity was a shrewd understanding man , and found out the very fundamental principle of the worship of images , and resolved it into the light of nature , as t. g. doth . but julian supposed these images to be proper likenesses of the gods , and consequently the worship of them as such is condemned : no such matter i assure you , iulian was a more orthodox man than so , he was no follower of that damnable heretick called anthropomorphus ( for so i find him in an ancient catalogue of hereticks ; ) iulian detests that opinion , and calls the gods 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , without any corporeal figure , or shape ; and therefore he proposes the objection of a christian against him , how it could then be proper to make any corporeal images of them ? why , to that , saith iulian , i answer , the images of the gods are placed by our ancestors , as signs and symbols of their presence , not that we should believe them to be gods , but that we should worship the gods by giving reverence to them . for , we living in the body ought to give them a worship suitable to our corporeal state , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; but they are incorporeal . so that iulian did not look on images as the proper likenesses of the gods , but as ancient and venerable symbols of their presence ; in which , he saith , all nations of the world were agreed , and in all ages . wherein he lashes too far ; but that is at least but a venial sin , to stretch a little for the sake of so good a cause . and iulian was not singular in this opinion of his , of the fitness of corporeal images , although the gods were not like them ; for varro was of the same mind ; who gives this account of the first design of making the images of the gods like to men , quorum qui simulachra specie hominis fecerunt , hoc videri secutos , quod mortalium animus , qui est in corpore humano , simillimus est immortalis animi , &c. that the soul of man was most like the deity ; and men made images like to their bodies , just as if a wine-vessel were put in the temple of bacchus to represent him , intending thereby to represent first the wine , which should be in the vessel , and by the wine him that is the god of wine : so , saith he , by images of mens shape they signified the soul contained within the body ; and by the soul they represented god as of the same nature , viz. the soul of the world. porphyrie , such another good catholick as iulian was , in this point of the worship of images , doth not in the least suppose any similitude between the shape of a man , and the nature of god , but he gives this account of representing the gods in figures like to men , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they made the gods like to men , because the divinity is a rational being ; and withall , he saith , that many were wont to represent him by a black stone , to shew that he is invisible . dio chrysostome at large debates the case about images , in his olympick oration ; wherein he first shews , that all men have a natural apprehension of one supreme god the father of all things ; that this god was represented by the statue made by phidias of jupiter olympius , for so he said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , before whom we now are ; and then describes him to be the king , ruler and father of all both gods and men ; this image he calls , the most blessed , the most excellent , the most beautiful , the most beloved image of god. he saith , there are four wayes of coming to the knowledge of god , by nature , by the instructions of the poets , by the laws , and by images : but neither poets , nor law-givers , nor artificers were the best interpreters of the deity , but only the philosophers who both understood and explained the divine nature most truly and perfectly . after this , he supposes phidias to be called to account for making such an image of god , as unworthy of him ; when iphitus , lycurgus , and the old eleans , made none at all of him , as being out of the power of man to express his nature ; to this phidias replies , that no man can express mind and understanding by figures , or colours , and therefore they are forced to fly to that in which the soul inhabits , and from thence they attribute the seat of wisdom and reason to god , having nothing better to represent him by : and by that means joyning power and art together , they endeavour by something which may be seen and painted , to represent that which is invisible and inexpressible . but it may be said , we had better then have no image or representation of him at all ; no saith he , for mankind doth not love to worship god at a distance , but to come near and feel him , and with assurance to sacrifice to him and crown him . like children newly weaned from their parents , who put out their hands towards them in their dreams as if they were still present : so do men out of the sense of gods goodness and their relation to him , love to have him represented as present with them , and so to converse with him : thence have come all the representations of god among the barbarous nations in mountains , and trees , and stones . but if the quarrel be , that i have given a humane shape to him ; for that , saith he , the poets are much more to blame who began those things , especially homer who compared agamemnon to god in his head and eyes : but for my statue , no man that is not mad would compare it to a mortal man , much less to the perfection of the deity : and so dio proceeds with a great deal of eloquence to shew , how the representation of god by his image was more decent and becoming god , than that which the poets had made of him : and how he had endeavoured by the utmost of his skill to represent the perfections of the divine nature in the admirable workmanship of his statue , as to his power , greatness , and good will to mankind ; and concludes all with saying , that as to his workmanship he thinks he hath gone beyond all others ; but yet no workmanship can be compared to the god that made the whole world. thus we see from the testimony of these very considerable authors , the wiser heathens had no such foolish imagination as t. g. supposes them to be possessed with , viz. that the images of the deity which they worshipped were the proper likenesses of him ; and if t. g's light of nature and common sense do sufficiently decide this controversie , it is very plain on which side the ballance inclines , viz. towards paganism against christianity . macrobius saith , that anciently they made no image at all of the supreme god , as being above any representation ; but they made images of the inferiour gods although they were formarum talium prorsus alieni , in nothing like to them . the former clause in macrobius must be understood of the most ancient times before the age of phidias as appears by the foregoing passages ; and yet porphyrie saith , that the aegyptians were wont to represent the creator whom they called cneph in the figure of a man of a dark blew colour , holding a girdle and a scepter in his hand ; out of whole mouth came an egg , by which they represented the world as his production . not much unlike to this , is the image of the creator in the temple of meaco in iapan , which is all over black , with a scepter in his hand , and they likewise represent the world by an egg ; as arnoldus montanus observes . in the itinerary of alexander geraldinus to those parts of africa under the aequinoctial ( which was written by him to the pope , when he was bishop of s. domingo ) in the account he gives of the religion of those parts ( which is far more particular than is to be met with elsewhere ) he describes several images of the great god which were in mighty veneration among them : as in bassiana the king with all his people do worship the god of nature in an image of marble , set upon a high throne , holding the sun in his right hand , and the moon in his left , and the other stars on either side of him ; and wherever the king travels , he carries such an image along with him , and prays five times a day prostrate before it . in demnasea upon the top of a wall is placed the image of god holding all things , before which the people are bound to pray every morning . in ammosenna , they represent the god of heaven by four heads coming out of the body of a lynx looking towards the four quarters of the world to represent his omnisciency and omnipresence , whom they call orissa . in logonsennea , the god of nature is painted in the image of a man and all other images of him condemned now if t. g. were sent on a mission into any of those parts where god was worshipped after such a manner , i have a great desire to understand , what his opinion would be concerning this kind of worship ; whether it were idolatry or no ? if not , they might still continue in it and be saved ; as far as men can be saved by the meer light of nature , which herein t. g. thinks they follow exactly ; for they honour god by worshipping his image . if it be idolatry , how comes it to be so ? for this is neither the representation of some pigment , but of a real being ; nor is it of some real thing falsely taken to be god , which is his larger notion of an idol ; but it is looked on only as the image of the true god ; and that not as a proper likeness , but by analogical representation , and consequently according to t. g. is no disparagement to the deity . but whatever t. g's opinion in this case is , the fathers when they discoursed against the heathen idolatry , made use of such arguments which held against such images and representations as these ; and that upon these two weighty considerations . . because such a representation of god , was unsuitable to his nature . . because it was repugnant to his will. . because such a representation of god was unsuitable to his nature . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith clemens alexandrinus . a visible representation of the deity lessens his majesty ; and it is a disparagement to an intellectual being to worship him by sensible matter : therefore , saith he , moses forbad any image to be made of god , that we might ascend above sensible things ; and thereby declaring god to be invisible , and incomprehensible . and from hence zeno the stoick said , no workmanship of man could be worthy of god. and in another place , he saith , the reason why numa forbad any image of god like to man , or any living creature , was , because the most excellent being could be represented only to our minds ; and that antisthenes learnt that from socrates , that god was like to no representation we could make of him ; and therefore no man could learn any thing of him from an image ; and xenophon , that it is apparent that god is great and powerful , but we know not how to make any thing like him . is it possible then , that such athenians as these , should look on any images as the proper likenesses of god ? these wiser heathens , t. g. confesses , did mean , that the nature of god being spiritual and invisible , it could not be represented by any thing like unto it ; and yet these were athenian philosophers , as well as those whom , he saith , s. paul condemned for supposing their images to be proper likenesses and representations of the divinity . but t. g. supposes , that the reason why the worship of images is a disparagement to the deity , and incongruous to the divine nature , is , because the people gave worship to them as gods , or like unto the gods they worshipped ; whereas i have now plainly shewed , that those who contended for the worship of images among them , did neither look upon them as gods , nor like to their gods , but only as symbolical representations of the divine nature . and the fathers make use of this acknowledgement of theirs of the incongruity of images to the deity , from thence to prove the incongruity of the worship of them . so that it is not , the supposing the images to be like god , which they condemn in them , for none of their wiser men were such fools ; but the making of such images and worshipping of them , which in their own nature were so infinitely beneath the divine being , did tend to the begetting in mens minds mean and unworthy thoughts of god. and therefore they frequently insist upon this , that mens imaginations are easily tainted and corrupted by the daily representations of things , especially when they are proposed as objects of worship : and however , the very manner of worshipping an infinite , and immaterial being by a gross and material representation is that which the fathers condemn as most unsuitable to the divine nature . for this , justin martyr saith , is not only unreasonable , but it is done 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the reproach of god , whose glory and form is inexpressible . athenagoras saith , if god and matter be all one , it is then reasonable to worship god by giving worship to sensible matter ; but if there be an infinite distance between them , why are we accused for not doing it ? and if we refuse to worship the workmanship of god , viz. the heaven and elements ; why should we do it to the workmanship of men ? origen looks on this , as one of the most peculiar characters of the christian doctrine , that it raises mens minds above images and all worship of creatures to the creator of all things , and that it is one of the first things the catechumens are instructed in , to despise idols , and all images ; he saith , it is not only a foolish thing to pray to images , as heraclitus said ; but to seem to do it as the philosophers did . if they are worshipped , it must be either as gods , which celsus denyed , or as representations of god , which cannot be , because god is invisible and incorporeal : and therefore , he saith , that the christians would not endure the worship of god by images ; and although other nations did refuse the worship of images , ( with whom celsus parallels the christians ) yet it was not upon the same ground that the christians did , viz. because they would not debase and draw down the worship of god towards matter so fashioned and formed . lactantius shews , how unreasonable it is to worship god by an image ; since images are intended to represent the absent ; but god is every where present . but if there ought to be any image of god ( which he calls simulachrum dei , and surely doth not signifie an idol in t. g's sense ; and i hope here he will not charge me with want of fidelity in translating it image ) it ought to be living and sensible , because god lives for ever : therefore that cannot be the image of god that is made by the work of mens hands , but man himself , who gives all the art and beauty to them which they have ; but poor silly men as they are , they do not consider , that if their images had sense and motion , they would worship the men that made them ; and brought them into such a curious figure out of rude and unpolished matter . who can be so foolish to imagine , there can be any thing of god in that image , in which there is nothing of man , but the meer shadow ? but their minds have the deepest tincture of folly ; for those who have sense , worship things that have none ; they who think themselves wise , things that are uncapable of reason ; they that live , things that cannot stir , and they that came from heaven , things that are made of earth . what is this , saith he , but to invert the order of nature , to adore that which we tread upon ? worship him that lives , if ye would live ; for he must dye , that gives up his soul to things that are dead . and after he hath fully shewn his rhetorick in exposing the folly of worshipping images , he concludes very severely ; quare nonest dubium quin religio nulla sit , ubicunque simulachrum est . wherefore there can be no true religion , where there is the worship of images ; no , although it be simulachrum dei , the worship of god by an image ; for his reason holds against all ; religion , saith he , is a divine thing , and whatever is divine is heavenly , but whatever is in images is earthy , and therefore there can be no religion in the worship of images . what sport do tertullian , minucius , and arnobius make with the images which were consecrated to divine worship ? from the meanness of the matter they are made of , the pains , and art that is used to bring them into their shape , the casualties of fire and rottenness , and defilements they are subject to , and many other topicks on purpose to represent the ridiculousness of worshipping such things ; or god by them . o , saith arnobius , that i could but enter into the bowels of an image , and lay before you all the worthy materials they are made up of ; that i could but dissect before you a jupiter olympius , and capitolinus . yet these were dedicated to the worship of the supreme god. would men ever have been such fools to have exposed themselves rather than such images to laughter and scorn , if they had used any such themselves , or thought them capable of relative divine worship ? how easily would a heathen of common understanding have stopt the mouths of these powerful orators , with saying but a few such words to any one of them . fair and soft , good sir ; while you declaim so much against our images , think of your own ; what if our iupiter olympius , or capitolinus be made of ivory , or brass , or marble ; what if the artificer hath taken so much pains about them ; what if they are exposed to weather , and birds , and fire , and a thousand casualties : are not the images of s. peter , and s. paul , or the several madonna 's of such and such oratories liable to the very same accusations ? if ours are unfit for worship , are not yours so too ? if we be ridiculous , are not you so ? and so much the more , because you laugh at others , for what you do your selves . so that we must either think the first christians prodigious fools , or they must utterly condemn all images for religious worship ; and not meerly the heathens on considerations peculiar to them . and that we may not think this a meer heat of eloquence in these men , we find the same thing asserted by the most grave and sober writers of the christian church , when they had to deal not with the rabble , but their most understanding adversaries . we have no material images at all , saith clemens alexandrinus , we have only one intellectual image , who is the only true god ; we worship but one image which is of the invisible and omnipotent god , saith s. hierome . no image of god ought to be worshipped , but that which is what he is , neither is that to be worshiped in his stead , but together with him , saith s. augustin . where it is observable that the reason of worship given to this eternal image of god , is not communicable to any image made of him , as to his humane nature ; for it cannot be said of the humane nature it self , that it is god , much less of any image or representation of it . therefore let t. g. judge whether the worshipping christ by an image , be not equally condemned by the fathers with the worship of god by an image ; but of that hereafter . eusebius answering porphyrie about the image of god , saith , what agreement is there between the image of a man and the divine understanding ? i think it hath very little to a mans mind , since that is incorporeal , simple , indivisible ; the other quite contrary , and only a dull representation of a mans shape ; the only resemblance of god lies in the soul , which cannot be expressed in colours or figures ; and if that cannot which is infinitely short of the divine nature , what madness is it to make the image of a man to represent the figure and form of god ? for the divine nature must be conceived with a clear and pure understanding free from all corruptible matter ; but that image of god in the likeness of man , contains only the image of a mortal man , and that not of all of him , but of the worst part only , without the least shadow of life or soul. how then can the god over all , and the mind which framed the world be the same that is represented in brass or ivory ? s. augustin , relating the saying of varro , about representing god by the image of a mans body , which contains his soul which resembles god , saith , that herein he lost that prudence and sobriety he discovered in saying , that those who first brought in images among the romans , abated their reverence ( to the deity ) and added to their errour ; and that the gods were more purely worshipped without images : wherein , saith s. augustin , he came very near to the truth . and if he durst speak openly against so ancient an errour , he would say , that one god ought to be worshipped , and that without an image : the folly of images being apt to bring the deity into contempt . is it possible to condemn the worship of god by an image in more express words than s. austin here does ? . because the worship of god by images is repugnant to his will. clemens alexandrinus mentions the law given by moses , against the making any image of god in the place before mentioned ; and which he there asserts to be still obligatory to christians . but although he there repeats the command at large against all sorts of images , yet it is observable that when he goes about to set down all the commandments , this by some artificial hand is conveyed out of the way ; and the second commandment is , thou shalt not take the name of the lord , &c. which made me not a little wonder , finding clemens so often in other places expressing his zeal against images . but it is not hard to guess what hands his greek copies have passed through , since the second nicene council ; yet we are beholding to them for leaving so much evidence of their foul dealing behind them ; for within few pages , he saith , the tenth commandment takes in all sorts of concupiscence , and therefore the precept against images must be a distinct command to make up the number : so that sylburgius justly complains that the place is mutilated . if clemens did not think this precept concerned christians , he would never have objected it as an absurdity against a sort of gnosticks , that thought themselves bound to oppose the law , why then , saith he , when god said , thou shalt not make any graven image , you were best go and worship images . by all which we see , that he thought the precept to be still in force , and that it was intended against the worship of images , and those images , such as respect god , and not meerly the heathen idols . origen saith , that for the sake of that law , thou shalt not make to thy self any graven image , the christians would rather die than defile their faith with such impieties as the worship of images : and therefore their case was very different from that of the scythians , numidians , seres and persians , with whom celsus joyned them in the contempt of images . when symmachus pleaded with valentinian for the toleration of the pagan religion , on this pretence , that the same god was worshipped by all , and that by several waies men aimed at the same end ; s. ambrose answers , that god himself was fittest to teach what way he would be served in : you worship the work of mens hands , we account it an injury to god to call anything by his name that can be made by man ; non vult se deus in lapidibus coli , god hath declared , he will not be worshipped after such a manner . whereby we see the primitive christians fixed themselves on the command of god , as upon an immoveable rock , against the worship of images . thus much may suffice to have shewn in this place , that the controversie between the christians and heathens about the worship of images , was not whether they were proper likenesses of god , from the apprehensions they had of their images . i proceed now to shew it . . from the notions they had of their gods. and here , i must in the first place , exclude those who in truth were atheists and not idolaters , i mean the epicurean philosophers , who although they seemed to assert some pleasant beings , that lived in perfect ease , far from the noise and smoke of the world ; yet they utterly overthrew all foundations of worship in prayers , or sacrifices , by denying the gods to have any regard to the actions of men , for fear of disturbing their sweet repose . these indeed made their gods like men , but so thin and airy , that they could not bear the least justle of atoms , and so quiet and still that the least thought of business would destroy their happiness . these were only made for fine idea's to amuse the people with , but any one might see that they were never intended for the objects of worship ; and therefore plutarch and athenaeus say , that epicurus took away all the worship of the gods ; however he complyed with the common practises of the people ; and when he lift up his hands to his mouth , in token of adoration , he could not but laugh through his fingers at the gods they worshipped . but we may see by the discourse of the academick and stoick , with the epicurean in cicero , how much they abhorred this epicurean doctrine of the gods being like to men ; and velleius the epicurean doth in effect confess , there were no philosophers of that mind besides themselves . for he reckons up all the opinions of the other philosophers concerning the nature of the gods after such a manner , as to discover that this opinion was peculiar to their own sect. he acknowledges , that thales asserted god to be an eternal mind , which framed all things out of water ; even anaximander and anaximenes , who held only material gods , or first principles ( for even the atheist were willing to have matter believed to be a god by them , to avoid the odium of atheism among the people ) yet these rejected a humane form ; at which the epicurean is displeased , as though they might have flattered the people , ( as they did ) in the fashion , as well as in the name of a deity . some have undertaken to clear anaximenes ; and to make him of the same opinion with thales , concerning an incorporeal deity ; saying that by air , he meant only a divine spirit ; and therefore in plutarch he compares it to the soul of man , which being air doth animate the body ; and diogenes apolloniates his disciple held air only for matter , and reason for the efficient cause : as st. augustin tells us . however , anaxagoras another disciple of anaximenes is confessed by velleius to hold god to be an infinite and active mind ; free from all mixture of matter ; as the words of anaxagoras in simplicius do express his meaning : and s. augustin under takes his vindication against the epicurean objections , which suppose it impossible for us to understand any such thing as mind without the conjunction of sense and matter . pythagoras said , that god was a quickening spirit diffused through the world ; which is best expressed by virgil , in those words after the sense of pythagoras , spiritus intus alit , totosque infusa per artus mens agitat molem , & magno se corpore miscet . xenophanes falls under the same condemnation with the rest for asserting god to be a mind ; but he went somewhat farther , for in the verses cited out of him by the fathers , he said , that god was like to man neither in body , nor in mind : and for men to make an image of god like to themselves , was all one as if a horse should paint him with a long tail and four feet , if he had understanding enough to make a representation of the deity ; or an ox or a lion should draw him by their own figures . parmenides made god to be of a circular figure in the fashion of a crown or orb of light compassing about the heavens . whatever the opinions of alcmaeon , empedocles , protagoras , diogenes apolloniates were , it is certain the epicurean despises them all ; because they either appeared too doubtful and obscure in their opinion about a deity , or at least seemed to make him of an inconvenient form to deceive the people . even democritus himself doth not please him , for although he makes his images to be gods , yet he did not by them understand such as t. g. doth , but he means no other than his atoms ( which laertius calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) and that first matter whence they arise ; but , saith velleius , while he destroys an eternal being , democritus must needs overthrow the very opinion of a deity ; however he would give the title of it to his images or matter , or the minds of men . he grants , that according to plato , god is an incorporeal mind ; but then , he saith , he must want sense , and prudence , and pleasure ( i. e. epicurean pleasure ) , but withall he adds , that plato contradicts himself , making the world , and the heavens and stars , and men to be gods , which are both false in themselves , and inconsistent with each other . this charge against plato seems to be the most material , and therefore deserves to be more fully cleared , which shall be afterwards done , when i come to the platonick doctrine about divine worship , where it will be made appear , that plato did assert one supreme and incorporeal deity , and that the worship allowed by him to inferiour gods was of the same nature with that which is practised in the roman church , and that he no more believed images to be like the true god than they do . i now proceed to the rest of the philosophers opinions in this matter : xenophon is charged by the epicurean , to be guilty of the same fault with plato , and that in the memoires of socrates written by him , he saith , that men ought not to enquire after the form of god ; and that it is impossible for us to know it : for we only know , saith he , that he is great and powerful , who makes all things to quake and tremble . antisthenes acknowledged but one god in nature , although there were many of the peoples making ; by which , saith velleius , he destroyed the force and nature of the gods : and upon the epicurean supposition that they were like to men , he thought it necessary for their pleasure , that there should be more than one to keep up good fellowship among them . and because speusippus said , that the divine nature did imply a governing spirit , he thought this as bad as the denying his being ; it being to his apprehension impossible to be happy and to govern. he grants , that aristotle affirmed god to be an incorporeal being ; however , he saith , that he was not constant to himself , sometimes making nothing to be god but only mind ; at other times attributing divinity to the heavens and parts of the world ; but as the late commentator on that part of tully observes , the former was only the first , eternal , infinite god , the other a secondary , limited , and participative divinity , and rather an image of the divinity than it self : as he proves from comparing several places in aristotle together , and concludes with that excellent description of god drawn out of aristotle by du vall , god is an eternal substance , and act , without potentiality and matter , without magnitude , parts , division , passion , change , intelligible by himself , the principle of motion , but immovable , the cause of heaven , and , nature , and infinitely happy . mirare lector , saith du val , hominis ethnici theologiam . see how far aristotle was from thinking the athenian images to be proper likenesses of the deity . if to these now we add the stoicks , who asserted god to be a divine reason and spirit actuating the world , we have a full discovery , that by the confession of those who were of another opinion , all the famous sects of philosophers agreed in rejecting that principle that the gods were of humane shape , and consequently the idolatry they were guilty of in the worship of images could not lie in this , that they thought their images to be proper likenesses of god. of the same mind with these were the freer philosophers of following ages : among whom cicero deserves a name , were it only for that excellent description of god , which lactantius and s. augustin quote out of him , with great approbation , neither can god himself be otherwise understood by us , than as a mind free , and disentangled from all corporeal mixtures , perceiving and moving all thing . the same thing might be proved of seneca , epictetus , plutarch , alcinous , plotinus , proclus , sallustius , and others ; but i purposely forbear , both because these are sufficient for my purpose , and because it may be said by those who have nothing else to say , in this matter that they came to have truer apprehensions of god only by the means of the christian religion . nay , i might prove that many of the very poets themselves had much nobler conceptions of the deity , than to imagine him to have any thing corporeal ; but i shall only mention these verses out of the ancient tragoedian , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . think not that god is like to mortal flesh . from whence we see , that if there were any so foolish among the athenians to imagine their gods to be just like their images , they did it not for want of instruction to the contrary ; and if the nature of their idolatry did lie in this , scarce any understanding man among the heathens that did really believe a deity , was guilty of it . . but if they did not suppose their images to be the proper likenesses of god , yet they worshipped the images of false gods , or they worshipped their images themselves for gods , and therefore , saith t. g. the apostle condemns them , rom. . to make my discourse come home to them i must shew , saith he , that the images by which they honour christ and his saints , are worshipped by them as gods , or as the images of false gods , as those were of which the apostle speaks in that place . that is it i aim at , to bring my discourse as home to them as may be ; and therefore to give him full satisfaction , i shall enquire whether the heathen idolatry condemned by s. paul , did consist in one of these two things , either , . that they worshipped only the images of false gods. or , . that they took the images themselves for gods. . whether their idolatry lay in worshipping the images of false gods ? if i can prove , . that they did intend to worship the true god , either by an image purposely for him , or to direct the worship through the gods and images they worshipped to him ; and . that there is no greater repugnancy in the manner of their worship , than is used in the roman church , i hope i shall bring my discourse home enough to t. g. to do this more convincingly i shall give an account of the principles of divine worship among the heathens from their own writers ( which i suppose will be another way of bringing it home to them ) and because t. g. particularly charges socrates and plato , i shall make choice of the platonick principles of divine worship , and see upon what grounds they become guilty of idolatry , which will not reach home to themselves . card. bessarion hath written an elaborate vindication of plato against trapezuntius , wherein he shews that plato did assert the unity , power , and goodness of god , and the creation of all things by him ; and that he doth this frequently and constantly , in his parmenides , phaedrus , phaedo , philebus , timaeus , sophista , laws , politicks , epistles , every where . but trapezuntius charges plato , that although he did acknowledge god , he did not worship him , and that he sacrificed only to the inferiour gods ; to this bessarion answers , that in his books of laws , which were made for the people , he doth not expresly prescribe any worship to god under the name of one , or first , or ineffable , which were the titles he had given him in his dialogues , and were not known to the people ; but in his eighth book of laws , he appoints twelve solemn feasts to the twelve gods of whom iupiter was chief ; under which name the supream god was known among the people , than which name in the proper importance of it , none could have been more significant of the nature of the supreme god ; and that he retained the other common names of the gods worshipped among them ( that he might not seem to innovate any thing in religion ) although the philosophers understood them in another sense than the common people did ; by iove they meant the first being or supreme deity , by minerva wisdom , by mercury reason , by saturn eternity , by neptune form , by iuno matter , by venus nature , by apollo the sun , by pan the universe ; but when they spake to the people about the worship of them , they did not mention wisdom , or reason , or eternity , but minerva , mercury , saturn ; and he saith , it would have been folly in them to have done otherwise , the people being accustomed to worship the gods under these names , and nothing more was requisite but to make them understand them aright . but for plato himself , he saith , he worshipped the supreme god after the best manner , i. e. with inward reverence and adoration ; in plato's own expressions , by thinking the best and most worthy things of him , which bessarion interprets in spirit , and in truth ; and he adds , that plato looked on sacrifices , and images as unworthy of him who was a pure mind , and could not be represented by any image to men . but plato's adversary charges him , with giving the worship of latria to inferiour gods , and creatures : to which bessarion saith , that latria among the heathens signified only a stricter kind of service which some men paid to others that were above them ; and that the worship by sacrifice by a long custome from the time of zamolxis and orpheus was looked on as common to all things worshipped by them ; but , saith he , he referred all that worship which others gave to many and different gods , to the first and chief principle of all things ; and again mentions that saying in his epinomis , that the most suitable worship of god is to think honourably of him . which i suppose plato would have said , was the same thing which those of the church of rome call latria , and that he could by no means understand how sacrifices come to be appropriated to it ; and to this purpose bessarion quotes the saying of porphyrius , that god is to be worshipped in silence , and with a pure mind ; and with the sacrifice of a good life . and as to other deities which plato allowed to be worshipped , he saith , that he supposed them to be inferiour and subordinate to the supreme , and dependent upon him ; and that he did not worship empty statues , but one god the principle of all . which being compared with plato's law , and practice about worshipping according to the custome of the countrey , doth imply that he worshipped images with a respect to the true god. let now the reader judge whether according to the judgement of this learned cardinal , plato was guilty of worshipping only the images of false gods. but trapezuntius still urges hard upon plato , that if he allowed the worship of a second and third order of gods , which were but creatures , he might on the same ground worship any creatures , because all creatures are infinitely distant from the creator . bessarion like an understanding man , tells him , that this argument would hold as well against the church of rome , as against plato , which worships angels although they be creatures ; but yet he doth not think the argument will reach to the worship of all creatures ; because though all creatures be equally distant as to existence , yet some come nearer than others as to perfection . this trapezuntius takes off , by saying that plato worshipped daemons ; which bessarion grants , but by daemons he saith , plato and aristotle , and other philosophers did not understand such evil spirits as we do , but certain aereal beings , lower than gods and above men , whom they looked on as mediators and intercessours between god and men ; but for evil spirits , he saith , they were not received into their religion ; and that lucifer was looked on as accursed by them under the name of ate. and he shews farther from s. augustin that all the poetical theology was rejected by plato . so that the whole dispute with plato about worship must come to these two points . . whether it be lawful to worship the supreme god , by external and visible representations , supposing that a man direct his intention aright towards the honour of god by them ? . whether it be lawful to give an inferiour worship to any created beings , whose excellencies are supposed to be far above mens in order to their intercession between god and us ? and now let t. g. judge whether i have not brought my discourse home to their own doors . i omit marsilius ficinus as a man that may be supposed too partial to plato ; but i hope augustinus steuchus eugubinus may pass for a sound catholick ; being an italian bishop , and a roman courtier , that had so much zeal as to vindicate constantines donation against valla ; and therefore his testimony cannot be rejected . he undertakes at large to prove that plato acknowledged one true and supreme god ; and that all other beings are created by him ; and when he seems to attribute divinity to other things , it is only a divinity by way of gift and participation , such as angels and holy men are said to have ; which doth not hinder our believing them to be all at first created by one god. there were three sorts of inferiour deities , he saith , asserted by the philosophers , viz. daemons , or gods with aërial bodies , who have a particular care of humane affairs ; intelligences or the spirits which animate and move the stars , and coelestial deities who converse with the supreme god ; now all these he makes appear from many passages in plato , especially the famous one in his timaeus , to have been made by god. and that when in his books of laws , and the epinomis or appendix to them , he so much sets forth the divinity of the stars and the heavens , he must either contradict himself , or attribute only an inferiour divinity to them : and that he did not speak so clearly of the worship of the supreme god , because he looked on him as incomprehensible , and that he could not so well know in what way it was fit to worship him . however he invocates him in several places ; especially when he was to speak concerning the gods ; and in his epistle to hermias , erastus , and coriscus , which he writ when he was grown old ; he calls to witness , the god over all , governour of all things and times , and father of the lord and cause of things ; but as to the publick manner of worship , he saith , that no man ought to teach unless god himself direct him . he farther shews , that notwithstanding plato spake so much and so well concerning the true god , yet he attributed the title of divinity to several ranks of spirits , to the heavens , the sea , to the world , to zamolxis , to mercurius trismegistus , and to good men in general , to whom he commands sacrifices and other acts of worship to be performed , quod in religione nostra justissimè fit sanctis & divis : which is with great reason done among us to saints and deified men . i now appeal to t. g. whether aug. steuchus doth not bring this matter very home to them ? when , he saith , that they either worshipped angels ( so he saith philo renders their daemons ) or saints , as they verily believed , and supposed the honour of these was very well pleasing to the supreme god , whom they constantly acknowledged ; as he at large proves not only concerning plato , but aristotle , and all the philosophers of any reputation ; and he saith , that socrates in plato not only confessed the true god , but that he ought to be worshipped and observed by men , and that for his sake men ought never to forsake the way of righteousness , and therefore he resolved rather to follow god than the advice of his friends , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which cannot be better rendred than in the apostles words , it is better to obey god than men . it would be endless to repeat the places wherein he shews at large , that plato and the rest of the philosophers , did acknowledge the unity , power , wisdom , goodness and providence of the supreme god ; and after all these acknowledgements is it possible to conceive that they should never intend to refer the honour they gave to inferiour deities and their images to this supreme god ? nay , it is not possible , say some , they should do otherwise , since they believed all the other deities they worshipped to be created and dependent beings . but i need not make use of such a way of proving it , paulus benius eugubinus hath made it appear , he saith , that according to plato the supreme god is to be worshipped after a singular and peculiar manner . and he gives this account of the platonick principles of divine worship as to inferiour deities . . that plato's gods were no other than our angels , and that he sets god the maker of them , at a mighty distance from them . . that when he speaks so much of the worship of the heavenly bodies , he doth not thereby intend the worship should be given so much to the bodies , as to those blessed minds that moved them ; yea , saith he , to them properly and precisely , and so that they being removed , no honour or worship is to be given to the bodies themselves . which certainly is no more idolatry on this supposition , than adoration of the host is , upon one far more extravagant . but , he saith , by one place in plato's epinomis , it may be questioned whether he intended the stars should be worshipped otherwise than as images of the gods ; and therefore , saith he , very ingenuously , plato did scarce at all differ , unless in words , from the doctrine of the roman church in this matter . . that plato did put a difference in the nature and kind of the worship which he gave to inferiour deities , and that which was due to the supreme god , and the same kind of difference as is made among them ; and that when he acknowledges them to be created by him , he could not give soveraign worship to them . . that when plato gave worship to daemons the difference is only about words , because by daemons he understood an inferiour order of angels , whom he supposed to be good and holy , and to have a care of mankind . the only difference then , that this learned man could find , worth taking notice of between plato's worship and theirs was this , that they worshipped those for saints and deified men , and the images of such , who were not truly saints ( not being canonized by the pope ) but if they had been such , he then confesses , that they did nothing amiss in the worship they gave to them , or their images . alioquin , saith he , ea cultus venerationisque ratio cum nostra magnopere congrueret . so that all the dispute comes to this , whether mercurius trismegistus were not as good a saint as thomas becket , and as much deserved to be worshipped ; or socrates as ignatius loyola ; not , whether we account them so , but whether they upon their supposition of their excellencies and vertues might not as innocently worship them , as the papists do the other . p. lescalopier a late iesuit , saith , that plato makes so palpable a distinction between the supreme god maker of all things , and other deities , that no one but an epicurean backbiter can deny , that plato did openly and constantly assert one god ; and that he did not give equal honour to any as he did to him ; and delivers this as the substance of his opinion , unum deum imprimis adorandum , cujus gratiâ caetera numina colenda sunt . one god to have soveraign worship given him , and others to have a relative and inferiour worship . and now i hope , i have brought this matter home to t. g. and made it appear from their own writers , that these philosophers went upon the same principles of divine worship that they do in the roman church . the only appearance of difference is about the worship of deified men , and that not as to the nature and kind of the worship , but only as to the persons ; and yet as to this it ought to be considered , . that it was only a mistake , such a one as many may be guilty of in the roman church , who it is possible may worship those for saints in heaven , who are in a worse place . . many of those worshipped by the heathens are confessed to have been good men ; so campanella confesses of ianus , whom he took to be noah , and he said , deserved to be worshipped , as well as moses , and peter , and paul and the prophets : and he saith farther , that many wise and vertuous men were worshipped by the heathens , who did not look on them as essentially gods. thus many learned men have shewed that the veneration of adam and eve , of noah , shem and iaphet , of abraham , isaac and iacob , of ioseph , moses and ioshuah , &c. hath been preserved among the gentiles under the names of the several deities of saturn , tuisto , mannus , mercury , bacchus , apollo , hercules , &c. in which case , the heathens were innocent as to the persons they worshipped . . the papists ought in reason to allow them all the excuses they make use of for themselves ; such as invincible ignorance , oral tradition , authority of teachers , and conditional worship , which alone would justifie them ; for by that the intention of the worship , is to somewhat supposed to be worthy of it , but if they be mistaken in the particular application of it , that general intention is thought sufficient to render the worship lawful . but what saith t. g. all this while ? why , forsooth , s. chrysostome saith , that plato gloried in the worship of images and creatures ( of which he speaks before ) so he renders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which signifies no more , than setting them off with the best advantage ; of which i have given an account already ; and socrates commanded a cock to be sacrificed to aesculapius : who denyes it ? all the question is what socrates understood by aesculapius . for those who have had the greatest insight into the doctrine of socrates , and plato , tell us , ( such as marsilius ficinus , and coelius rhodiginus ) that by aesculapius socrates understood the divine beneficence that cures all diseases , to which a cock was sacrificed as the forerunner of day and the sun , thereby acknowledging the light of life to be derived from the divine bounty , the daughter of providence : and that now especially they should do it in token of his deliverance from the diseases of doubt and fear ; and the ancient oracles say , that souls returning to heaven sing an iô paean , the fittest emblem of which was the offering up a cock. but besides this , tacitus hath a remarkable passage to explain this sacrificing to aesculapius , viz. that many called god by the name of aesculapius as he healed the diseases of mankind ; of which seguinus takes notice in some ancient coynes , wherein the serpent the proper symbol of aesculapius is joyned with the horn of iupiter ammon , and the rays of the sun ; to shew , saith that learned antiquary , that the same god was meant by all those several titles . so that hereby appears no contradiction to what i have said as to the platonick doctrine and principles of divine worship . however , t. g. is content to suppose that the philosophers were as subtil as i would make them ( or rather as honest as their own writers make them ) yet , saith he , were they not worthily condemned by the apostle , though but for the external profession of praying and offering sacrifice to the statues of jupiter , venus , mercury , &c. as also to those of birds , and fourfooted beasts , and creeping things as the vulgar did ? i answer , that upon the principles of worship allowed in the roman church , they were not to blame in what they did , supposing that to be their meaning , which their own writers allow ; as appears by the foregoing discourse . but t. g. saith , however they were to blame in two things . . because the images being instituted by publick authority for the worship of false gods , they concurred as i acknowledge with the vulgar in all the external practises of their idolatry . . because though in the schools they denyed them to be gods , yet as origen charges celsus , they worshipped them as gods , and the people are confirmed in their opinion . but all the question is , how this external worship comes to be idolatry , supposing they acknowledged one supreme god , and gave only a relative or inferiour worship to other beings created by him , or to the images of them . wherein i pray did this idolatry consist ? not in worshipping the true god by images : that t. g. utterly denyes to be idolatry . was it then in giving soveraign worship to inferiour gods ? that their own writers deny that they did , but only a subordinate and relative worship . but it lay , saith t. g. in worshipping the images of false gods : these false gods by the confession of their own writers , were either good angels , or deified men ; and is it at last confessed to be idolatry to give divine worship to these ? but they concurred with the people in their worship ; and why not upon their grounds ? what scandal did this give among them ? but it was the external profession of idolatry ; of what idolatry ? of the worship of false gods. what! still in a round ? i grant they were false gods , as they had divine worship given to them ; and so whatever creature it be , that is so worshipped , though never so real or excellent a being , becomes a false god ; and so doth the image of that being so worshipped . but the people had other notions of these false gods than the philosophers had , and yet they complyed with the people in external acts of worship . this is just the case of the roman church , their learned men have complained that the people worship the images for gods among them ; but doth t. g. think himself guilty of external profession of idolatry in using the same external acts of worship with the people , though with another intention ? if not , why shall not the same excuse hold for titius , which holds for sempronius ? will they undertake to defend the follies of the ignorant people ? no , they do not think themselves bound to do it , but blame them for their ignorance and superstition , and say the church is free because it hath taken care to instruct them better . might not the philosophers have said the very same thing ? we are not bound to answer for the madness of the rabble ; we instruct them better , and our schools are open for them to learn : but since the nature of such actions depends upon the intention of the doers ; we declare our intentions to be to honour the supreme god in the first place ; then the coelestial deities , with a worship inferiour to his , but above all other beings ; next to them we worship the heavens on the account of the intelligences that animate and move them ; then the aereal daemons or lower angels which have the nearest entercourse with men ; and last of all the souls of deified men , whom some extraordinary excellency hath advanced above the condition of other souls : and according to the worship we give to the beings represented , we give worship to the images or representations . and if you allow the distinctions of divine worship , into soveraign and subordinate , into absolute and relative , what harm is there in all that we do ? indeed , if it be unlawful to worship god by any image ; if it be unlawful to give any divine worship to any creature ; we are then to blame , and are justly condemned , otherwise we think we stand upon equal terms , with those who make use of the same distinctions , and only change the names of some , and the persons of others . thus t. g. may see the parallel is not so extravagant as he would make it to be : and while s. paul condemned the philosophers for changing the glory of the incorruptible god , into images of men or beasts , while they still retained god in their minds , he doth effectually condemn all those who worship the true god by any images either of himself , or of any of his creatures . but besides this opinion of the platonick philos. there was another currant among the heathens , viz. that one and the same god was worshipped under different names and titles ; and simon majolus an italian bishop , and of great reputation as appears by the character given of him by ferd. ughellus , is of opinion , that they who began the poetick theology among the heathens were wiser than pythagoras , socrates , or any of the philosophers ; for their design was , saith he , under the representation of a multitude of gods , to shew to the people that god did see and know all things ; because the common people were uncapable of understanding how one god should be present in all places ; therefore they called that divine power which governed the heavens jove , the air juno , the sea neptune , &c. and we may observe , saith he , that all the gods of the ancients were nearly related to jove , by which it appears that their design was to signifie but one god that ruled and governed all things , whose power was diffused over the whole world. to which that saying of plotinus agrees , speaking of god that made the world , bringing the rest of the gods with him , or rather , saith he , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . who is one and all ; and every one is all agreeing in one ; in powers different , yet in that various power they are all one , or rather one is all . plutarch saith , that there were not different gods among the greeks and barbarians , in the northern and southern parts : but as the sun , moon , heavens , earth , and sea are common to all nations , but called by different names ; so that one reason and providence which orders , disposes , and manages all things hath different honours , and titles and symbols , some more plain and easie , others more difficult and obscure . so apuleius saith , the same deity was worshipped through the whole world , under different names , and images , and customes . which hypothesis makes it yet more difficult for t. g. to charge the heathens with the worshipping the images of false gods ; for if the same god were worshipped only under different titles and representations as they say , if the worship of god by an image be lawful , all the heathens which went upon this principle , must be freed from the charge of idolatry . . but t. g. is a man of tricks , and he hath one fetch yet behind ; which is , that the heathens took the images themselves for gods , and therein were guilty of idolatry . s. paul , saith he , speaks of such images , as were worshipped for gods , or for images of false gods. this is the very last reserve , and if this doth not help him , nothing can . who would not commend the various artifices of my antagonist , that doth with so much slight of hand convey one distinction after another , to blind the spectators eye ? if idolatry be forbidden , and the command be too plain to be denyed ; yes , saith he , idolatry is a very naughty thing ; but what is idolatry ? idolatry is the worship of an idol , is it not ? yea verily . now pray tell me , what is an idol ? an idol is an idol , in the self-evident and scientifical way . but to be serious , methinks sir , saith a disciple of t. g. to him , my conscience is a little unquiet when i worship an image of a madonna , for fear that should be an idol . now see what a fool you are ; is not the b. virgin in being ? yes without doubt in heaven . then her image can be no idol . say you so ? but i pray how doth that appear ? why , saith t. g. to his scholar , an idol is a representation of nothing that seems to be something ; as if you imagine a centaur , or a triton , or any chimera . and so farewell the commandment . but doth not s. paul condemn the athenians for idolatry in worshipping the work of mens hands ? and although chimera's be the work of mens brains , yet surely images are the work of mens hands . it is true , saith t. g. but then he condemns not all images , but such as are the proper likenesses of the deity . hold sir a little , you are too quick for me ; were these athenians idolaters or no ? why do you ask me that question ? i will tell you , sir , an idol you told me was a chimera , but the proper likeness of the deity is no chimera , unless you suppose the deity it self to be one ; so that , methinks you free them from that which s. paul condemns them for , viz. idolatry . but i pray , sir , what think you of those s. paul condemns , rom. . did they believe their images to be proper likenesses of their gods ? had they any four-footed and creeping gods , as they had images like to such things ? no , saith t. g. these were another kind of images from those at athens . " of what kind were these ? these were the images of false gods. " you mean they were idols , do you not ? yes , they were idols . very well ; then i have them right ; they were images of centaures , tritons , sphinxes , chimera's ; but he doth not speak against such images , but the representations of living and real beings , as men , or beasts , &c. which are no chimera's . therefore it seems , whatever s. paul saith , these were not guilty of idolatry ; and so methinks we have done a very good act of charity , for we have freed almost all the heathens from idolatry . hold a little , saith t. g. they were guilty for all this . of what ? of idolatry ? when s. paul saith , they knew god , but did not glorifie him as god , because they worshipped such images ; then it should seem to be idolatry to worship god by an image . you run too fast ; i said they were guilty ; but , do you mark me , i did not say of idolatry , but of complying with the people in the external practice of idolatry . very well ; the people then were guilty of idolatry , and they only of compliance ; but why doth not s. paul lay this only to their charge , which was their only fault , as he doth when he blames the corinthians for eating in the temple of idols ? i remember , sir , a good principle of yours , that actions go whither they are intended : now if these men intended to worship the true god by the publick images , this action of worship must be free from idolatry in them , whatever it were in others who had not such intention . but what do you mean by the exteriour practice of idolatry ? if all external actions be aequivocal , and the nature of idolatry depends on the intention of the mind , how comes the guilt of idolatry to be charged upon external acts when you do not know the inward intention ? suppose among us , a person falls to his prayers before the image of the blessed virgin ; here is all the external profession of idolatry that may be , for i can see no difference in any outward act between what he doth to the image , and what he would do to the person of christ , if he appeared to him . if this be idolatry , wo be to us all ; if it be not idolatry in us , how came it to be so in the philosophers , who , i have heard , owned the same true god , and had the same distinctions of the degrees of worship that we have ? but these were false gods that they worshipped . i hope the true god is not a false god , but i said they worshipped the true god. suppose that , yet they joyned false gods with him . not in the same degree with him , for they supposed him to be far above them all which were created by him , and dependent upon him : and do not we do the very same in the worship of angels and saints ? true , but theirs were false gods , and ours are saints and angels . upon the whole matter then , i find the fault of the wiser heathens , did not lie either in the general principles or practises of divine worship ; but only that they called these gods whom we call angels ( which i have heard s. cyrill and s. augustin thought not worth disputing ) and that they did not worship such good saints as we do , and of whom we have so good assurance that they were ( as s. christopher , longinus , the eleven thousand virgins , the seven sleepers ) whereas the poor heathens were bred up with fables ; and we have such eminent proofs of their sanctity , as s. dominick's butchering hereticks , and s. ignatius loyola's founding the order of iesuites . i am now very well satisfied , how justly the philosophers were condemned , and how innocently we give the same kind of worship to those that far better deserve it . yet , saith t. g. there is another thing behind , which makes the difference so apparent that nothing but malice and blindness can hinder men from seeing it . what is that , good sir ? for hitherto i have been forced to use my spectacles ; the difference was so fine and subtle . why , saith t. g. the heathens took their images themselves for gods , which you know we do not . this i confess is a very notable thing ; but i pray , sir , tell me , how they did it , and how we do it not ? did they really believe that the wood and stone of their images did make and govern the world ? or that a man by houghs and an axe could cut a god out of a tree ? that were as great a miracle , as our priests turning a wafer into god , by saying five words ; but i hope such miracles are peculiar to the roman catholick church . what was it then they meant , when they took their images for gods ? i suppose it was only , that they believed a more special presence of their gods in them ; and that by their means miracles were wrought at them , and that they sometimes spake , and sometimes bowed , and moved themselves . but do not all good catholicks believe the very same things of our images ? do not we know that our lady is more present in one image than in another ? and that she works miracles at some images more than at others , and that she moves and speaks , and travels too ; witness the holy house of loretto , and the madonna there ; where was there ever such a thing done in old rome ? the bringing the stone from phrygia , of the mater deorum , or the serpent from epidaurus , or the tattling of the image of iuno moneta at veii were not to be compared to this . therefore , sir , give me leave to advise you in this point ; have a care of disparaging our wonder-working images , while you would charge the heathens with idolatry , and free our church from the guilt of it . i had thought i had said enough in my former discourse , to make it appear , that the wiser heathens did not look on their images as gods , but as symbols and representations of that being to which they did give divine worship : for i shewed that celsus said , none but fools think otherwise of them : that porphyrie and the heathens in athanasius said they were only books for the ignorant : that in arnobius thy denied that they ever thought their images to be gods , or to have any divinity in them , but what only comes from their consecration to such an use ; and in s. augustin , that they worshipped not the images themselves , but through them they worshipped the deity ; that maximus tyrius at large proves , that images were but signs of divine honour , and helps to remembrance : that julian saith , they do not think their images to be gods , but that through them they may worship the deity ; and that eusebius in general testifies of the heathens , that they did not look on their images as gods. all this put together i thought had signified something to the proving that the heathen idolatry did not lie in taking their images to be gods : and so it seems it did . for t. g. runs quite off from the business , saying , that all these quotations do only prove ( what i brought them for ) that they did not look on their images as gods ; but he saith , it appears from some of them that they looked on them nevertheless as images or symbols of false gods. and did not i say , that i would prove by them , that they looked on them as symbols or representations of that being to which they gave divine worship ? i never said or thought , that the heathens looked on all their images as representations of the supreme god ; for i very well considered that they worshipped inferiour gods by images made for them . and therefore after the producing these testimonies i state the question thus , i desire to know whether these men , who worshipped images upon those grounds did amiss or no in it ? i do not ask whether they were mistaken as to the objects of their worship , but on supposition they were not , whether they were to blame in the manner of serving god by images in such a way as they describe ? and to this t. g. saith not one wise word ; but only talks of scandal and compliance with exteriour practice of idolatry , and what i have already answered : but he charges me , with misrepresenting the testimonies , because , forsooth , celsus adds , that they were statues erected to the gods ; and divinity and deity are not in the testimonies of arnobius and s. augustin ; and then bids the reader learn what credit he is to give hereafter to my citing of authors ; and at the same time receive a farther testimony of his kindness to me in taking the rest upon my word . very artificially done , i confess , to pass those by to which no answer was to be returned , and to spend some pages in most disingenuous cavils about the two testimonies he insists upon . i desire only the reader to consider , what i was proving , viz. that the heathens did not take their images themselves for gods , which he yet asserts several times in that chapter , after i had produced these testimonies expresly to the contrary . had it not become him either to have answered these testimonies , or not to have asserted that , which these testimonies most fully and clearly denied ? but he is content to take them upon my word ; i thank him for his kindness in it . but doth he take them as true or false ? if as true , then the heathens did not worship their images as gods , which he yet saith , they did : if he took them as false when i quoted them as true , the kindness was very extraordinary , and ought to be acknowledged . if he had produced the testimonies of bellarmin , vasquez , suarez , valentia , and others , to shew that the papists do not take their images for gods , and i should say , i took the testimonies upon his word , and yet asserted the direct contrary to them , without so much as the least answering to what they said , would not any indifferent reader account me either impudent or ridiculous ? yet this is exactly the case of t. g. for he saith several times in this chapter , that the heathens did worship their images as gods , whereas those testimonies say as plainly as words can express it , that they did not ; and yet these testimonies he takes upon my word , i. e. in common construction he believes them to be true , and yet the matter contained in them to be false : which is an admirable piece of t. g.'s art and ingenuity . but to add yet more to his kindness , at the same time he takes these testimonies on my word , he will let the reader see , what credit he is to give to my citing of authors . but why then will he take any upon my word , if i have so little credit with him ? herein ▪ he shews himself either very weak , if he will take my word , when he thinks i deserve no credit ; or very malicious , if he knows i deserve credit , and yet goes about to blast it , as much as in him lyes . but wherein is it , i have exposed my reputation so much in the two testimonies , he hath fastned his talons upon ? the first is that of arnobius , wherein i say , the heathens deny , that they ever thought their images to be gods , or to have any divinity in them , but what only comes from their consecration to such an use. that which he charges me with is , that by cogging in the word divinity in the singular number , i would represent it to the reader , as though the wiser heathens intended to worship the true divinity by those images , whereas all that they say in arnobius , is that they did not look on their images as gods per se of themselves , but they worshipped the gods which by dedication were made to dwell in them ; i.e. saith he , by magical incantation , by which the souls of wicked men were evocated and as it were tied to dwell in those images , as s. austin relateth l. . de civ . dei. c. . & . hereupon he charges me very severely , with soul dealing ; in putting divinity in the singular number , when the infernal spirits were meant by it ; as if they intended to worship the true god by these images , when they declared they worshipped false gods by them . a very heavy charge ; to which i shall give a distinct answer : . to that of translating divinity in the singular number , t. g. may if he please take it upon my word ( or if not , let him search the place once more ) that i translated these very words of arnobius , nihil numinis in esse simulachris , that the images have no divinity in them , and if these words be not in that very place , and but two lines before those quoted by him . erras & laberis , &c. i will venture my credit in citing authors upon t. g.'s ingenuity : but if they be there , as most certainly they are , what doth such a man deserve for so notorious fair dealing ? . my design was not to represent by this means that the heathens only intended to worship the true god by images , but that the worship of images was unlawful , although men did not take the images themselves for gods : so i said in the very beginning of those quotations , that i would prove that the heathens did look on their images as symbols or representations of that being to which they gave divine worship . do i say of the true god ? are not the words so general on purpose to imply that , whatever being they worshipped , they looked on the images as symbols or representations of it ? and after , to prevent all such cavils , i purposely added , i do not ask whether they were mistaken as to the objects of their worship ? but what can a man do to prevent the cavils of a disingenuous sophister ? . as to what he saith , that what they plead in arnobius is only that their images were not gods per se of themselves , but by virtue of the spirits dwelling in them , i answer , that t. g. charges the heathen idolaters with worshipping the images themselves ; and saith , that i deal very disingenuously in affirming that the wiser heathens did not worship the images themselves . now what could be more pertinent to my purpose , than to produce those very words of arnobius , you erre and are mistaken o t. g. in what you affirm , for we do not think the matter of brass , silver and gold to be gods or adorable deities per se of themselves . whereby we see t. g's own words as he renders them out of arnobius do sufficiently vindicate me and contradict him . he saith , they did worship the images themselves , and they say they did not . what doth he mean else , when he saith in other places , that the heathens worshipped their images as gods ; what is this but to take the images themselves for gods ? for he never once supposes it unlawful to worship images on the account of a divine spirit being present in the images , supposing that spirit of it self to deserve adoration : as suppose upon consecration of an image of the b. virgin , she should manifest her self in and by that image , in speaking , or moving , or working miracles , doth t. g. think it the more unlawful to worship such an image ? no certainly , but that men ought to shew more devotion towards it . therefore t. g. could not condemn the heathens for the worshipping the images , supposing good spirits did dwell in them . setting aside then , the dispute about the nature of the spirits , all that he could imagine the fathers had to condemn in those that worshipped images , was , that they worshipped the images themselves for gods ; which the heathens in arnobius deny , and which was the thing i produced that testimony to prove . bellarmin , whom my adversary follows , saith , that the heathens did take the images themselves for gods , for which he gives some very substantial reasons . . because their priests told them so . . because almost all the world believed it . this one would think were enough to justifie the belief of it , having the authority of their teachers , and consent of nations for it . . the motion , speech , and oracles that came from them . . the humane shape it self , which he saith , is a very notable argument to make men think that images live , because men do ; especially , he saith , if it be said so by wise men . but whatever the reasons be , he saith , he would prove that the heathens believed ipsa idola esse deos , the very images themselves to be gods. now what could be more contradictory to this assertion , than those words of the heathens in arnobius are ? so that the per se which t. g. charges me with leaving out , adds rather more weight and emphasis to the testimony . . after all this , i say , that arnobius doth reject the worship of images on such grounds as do hold against the worship of the true god by an image . for he brings that as the objection of the heathens against the christians , that supposing they had never so right apprehensions of the nature of those beings which the heathens worshipped for gods , yet they were to blame for not worshipping their images , nec eorum effigies adoramus , saith arnobius of the christians , which i beseech t. g. to remember are the words i translate , for fear he should take the next words , templa illis extruimus nulla ; and then cry out , there is no such thing as images in the words , that i have cogged in the word to serve my turn ; that this is setting up a flag in a fireship — dolus an virtus — with such kind of laudable plain-dealing . nay , arnobius goes yet farther , for , saith he , what greater honour can we attribute to them , than that we place them there , where the head and lord , and king of all is to whom they owe the same acknowledgements that we do ? but do we honour him , delubris aut templorum constructionibus , with images and temples ? so i render it without the fear of t. g's new charge of disingenuity ; for , besides that the delubra were , saith festus , wooden images ; it is certain that afterwards , according to varro , the most learned of the romans , when delubrum was applyed to a place , it signified such a one , in quo dei simulachrum dedicatum est : and in the old glossaries it is rendred into greek by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , therefore to honour god sine delubris , must be to worship him without images ; and this was the reason why the christians denyed they had any temples because the heathens supposed there could be no proper temples without images ; therefore in s. hierom , sanctorum basilicas in templa convertere , is all one as turn churches into idol temples : and both in origen and minucius , the heathens joyn those accusations together , that the christians had no altars , nor images , nor temples ; and vitruvius in the building of a temple , takes the greatest care of placing the images , that they may stand so , that the images may look on those who come up to the altars . and it appears by the discourse in arnobius , that they valued no temples , where there were no images ; thence came the suspicion that hadrian intended to worship christ , because he commanded temples to be built in all cities without any images ; as lampridius saith in the life of alexander severus . it is all one to our purpose whether hadrian had any such intention , or no ; for its being believed that he had from this reason , because the temples were without images , is a most undeniable evidence that the christians then did not worship god or christ , by any images in their churches . after this , arnobius argues against the use of images for this reason ; if you believe your gods to be in heaven , to what purpose do you make images of them to worship ? cannot you as well pray to the gods themselves ? but it may be you will say , because you cannot see the gods themselves , you represent them as present by those images ? but , saith he , he that thinks he must have gods to be seen , doth not believe any at all . however , say they , we worship them through these images . and what , saith he , can be more injurious , or reproachful than to know god to be one thing , and yet to pray to another ? to expect help from the deity , and yet to fall down before a senseless image ? which is like a man that should pretend to take advice from men , and to ask it of asses and swine . is not that , saith he , not meer mistake but madness , supplicare tremebundum factitatae abs te rei , to fall down trembling before a thing made by your selves ? besides this , he argues from the matter , form , and design of them , how ridiculous it is to worship images ; and after exposing the other pretences of the heathen idolaters , in the last place he considers this , that the ancients understood well enough , nihil habere numinis signa ; that there was no divinity in images , ( t. g. sees i am for the singular number still , and i think numen is so too ) but that images were set up to keep the rude people in awe ; which , he saith , they were so far from , that they only made their gods contemptible , and thereby encouraged them more in their wickedness . i desire now the reader to reflect , whether these arguments are peculiar to the worship of false gods ; and whether they do not with as much force hold against the worship of the true god by images ? and if it be possible to suppose that a man , that hath not the stupidity of an image , should object those things against their worship , which would be returned upon his own , and never provide in the least for any defence of it ? so that after all the loud clamours , and insolent charges of t. g. we find that arnobius himself doth fully prove , that the divinity cannot be worshipped by images ; and that what the heathens plead for themselves in him , doth shew , that they believed there was no divinity in images ; but what only comes from their consecration to such an use. the next testimony he charges me with foul-dealing in , is that of s. austin , wherein i say the wiser heathens deny , that they worshipped the images themselves , but they add , that through them they worship the deity . after this t. g. sets down those words of s. austin , videntur sibi purgatiores esse religionis , &c. and because in the following expressions , mention is made of the corporeal creatures , or the spirits that rule over them as worshipped by their images , therefore he charges me with great disingenuity in saying , that the heathens in s. austin affirmed that through their images they did worship the deity : and yet as it falls out , these are the very words i translated in s. austin , non hoc visibile colo , sed numen quod illic invisibiliter habitat ; and i now appeal to men of any common ingenuity , what usage i have met with from this adversary , who passes by the very words i translated , as near to the signification as possible ; and produces other passages ; and then hectors , and triumphs , and cryes out of my disingenuity ; when scarce ever any man discovered greater than in so doing , and i fear against his own conscience . the true state of the case in s. austin about the worship of images is this , . he exposes the worship of images in general as a silly and ridiculous thing ; being of things much inferiour to the meanest brutes ; and if men are ashamed to worship beasts , that hear and see , and live and move , they ought to be much more ashamed to worship a dumb , stupid , sensless image ; and they might with greater reason worship the mice and serpents which are not afraid of their images , but shelter themselves within them . now it is plain this discourse of s. austin doth reach to all sorts of images for whomsoever they are intended . for an image made for the true god hath no more sense , or life , or motion in it , than one of t. g's idols , or an image made for a chimera . but because the christian church knew nothing at that time of the worship of images , therefore he directs his discourse against the heathens , to consider the pleas and excuses they made for it . . he reckons up their several pleas for their images ; . some said that there was a secret deity which lay hid in the image , and which they worshipped through it . . others , that thought themselves of a more refined religion , said , they neither worshipped images , nor daemons , but only beheld in the corporeal image , the symbol of that which they ought to worship . which is the place cited by t. g. now i appeal to the reader , whether this very place doth not prove what i intended , viz. that the heathens did look on their images as symbols or representations of that being to which they gave divine worship . whereby i see t. g. hath done me a kindness indeed , which i thank him for , i.e. he hath proved that which i did intend , and confuted that which i did not . but there remains yet another charge of disingenuity to be answered , which concerns the quotation of trigantius ; the occasion whereof was this , i had said , if s. paul had not thought men to blame in the worship of god by an image , he would never have condemned them for it ; as he doth rom. . but he ought to have done as the iesuits in china did , who never condemned the people for worshipping images , but for worshipping false gods by them ; and perswaded them not to lay them aside , but to convert them to the honour of the true god , and so melted down the former images and made new ones of them . can we imagine s. paul meant the same thing , when he blames men not for believing them to be gods , but that god could be worshipped by the work of mens hands ; and for changing thereby the glory due to god in regard of his infinite and incorruptible being into mean and unworthy images , thinking thereby to give honour to him . these are my words . now observe t. g's ingenuity ; instead of answering the argument he falls to the exercise of his best talent , cavilling : the force of the argument lay in this , s. paul condemns the very manner of worshipping god by images ; the iesuits in china do not that , but bid them lay aside their old images , and worship new ones : what is the reason , that the iesuits vary from s. pauls method , but only because they differ in judgement , i. e. s. paul thought the worship of images in general unlawful , the iesuits do not , but only the images of false gods. this was the thing designed by me , to which he gives no manner of answer ; but only for several pages he tells a sad story how hard it was for him to come by the book of trigautius ; & when he had it , he thought he had gotten a mighty advantage against me ; because , forsooth , i render simulachra images ; for the whole charge comes to this at last ; for whereas trigautius distinguished the heathen simulachra from the images of christ because i did not in the account of the thing ; ( for i designed no verbal translation , as t. g. knew well enough by the character ) therefore this is charged to be the effect of some very bad design ; and an instance of my want of fidelity , sincerity , honesty , ingenuity , and what not ? i am sorry trigautius was so hard to come by , for it is possible , if he had not been put to so much trouble in procuring him , i might have escaped better . but is it in good earnest , such a horrible fault to translate simulachra images ? i see what a good thing it is to have a good catholick dictionary , for a hundred to one , but others would have rendred it , as i have done . i had thought tully's using the words statuae , imagines , signa and simulachra promiscuously might have been sufficient ground for my translating it by images : but it seems the ecclesiastical use of the word is otherwise . i had thought isidore a good iudge of the ecclesiastical use of a word ; and he uses it promiscuously with imagines & effigies ; but i confess ecclesiastical uses have been much changed since isidores time . and it seems simulachra is only applyed to heathen images , by no means to those among christians . but why so ? do they not vultum simulare , as horace expresses it ; bear a resemblance to what they represent ? do they not pariles line as principali ab ore deducere , which is arnobius his description of the proper notion of simulachrum ? but for all this , their images are not simulachra , and shall not be simulachra . it seems when images were baptized christian , they lost their former name , and have gotten a new one : and very much good may it do them , and all those that worship them , if the change of name would excuse their guilt . yet agobardus was of another opinion when he saith , that if those who forsook the worship of devils had been bidden to worship the images of saints , puto quod videretur eis non tam idola reliquisse , quam simulachra mutâsse : i think , saith he , that it would have seemed to them , that they had not left their idols , but only changed their images . where we see agobardus is my author for making simulachra common to the images of heathens and christians . and s. augustin calls the image of the true god simulachrum . but to set aside authorities , i hope the images used in china before the gentiles conversion , and those after did agree in something common to them both : although they were before the images of false gods , and after of christ or the b. virgin , yet they were all images still . might i not be allowed to say , that the jesuits did not perswade the converts to lay aside the use of images ; but to convert them to the honour of the true god ; and so melted down the former images and made new ones of them ? no , by no means , for them and them , coming after one another , and the first being the images of false gods , it was scarce possible for an ordinary protestant reader not to avoid being mistaken . in what ? in thinking they did not worship images after , as well as before their conversion ? no , but in supposing , that they made use of the same images afterwards , which they did before ? and what if they did ? what harm was there in it on t. g's principles , supposing the intention be directed aright ? nay , t. g. after all his clamour yields the thing , for saith he , st. gregory turned the pagan festivals into christian assemblies , and heathen temples to christian churches without ever pulling them down to build them up again ; and supposing the worship of images lawful , why not those to be used as well as temples ? and yet , i no where say , that they made use of the very same , but they melted them down and made new ones of them ; which is plainly to say , that though they did not allow those particular images , yet they did not condemn the use of images for divine worship ; but of the materials of the former images they made new ones to be used by them as christians , after that manner of worship which the iesuits delivered to them ; which was all that was necessary to my purpose . and now i leave the reader to judge whether in all this charge about these citations , t. g. hath not shewed himself to be a man of admirable ingenuity ; and whether he be not well accomplished in the most laudable vertue of a writer of controversies , viz. sincerity , and fair dealing ? chap. ii. the state of the controversie about images in the christian church . having thus far endeavoured to state the dispute about image-worship , as it was managed between christians and heathens , i now come to the rise and progress of this controversie in the christian church . wherein i shall proceed according to these following periods , . when images were not used or allowed in the christian church . . when they were used , but no worship allowed to be given to them . . when inferiour worship was given to them , and that worship publickly defended . . when the doctrine and practice of image-worship was settled upon the principles allowed and defended in the roman church ; and from thence to shew , wherein lie the main points of difference between us and the church of rome , as to this controversie about the worship of images . . as to the first period i had said in my former discourse , that the primitive christians were declared enemies to all worship of god by images , but i need the less to go about to prove it now , since it is at last confessed by one of the most learned iesuits they ever had , that for the four first centuries and farther , there was little or no use of images in the temples , or oratories of christians : but we need not their favour in so plain a cause as this ; as shall be evidently proved if occasion be farther given . this t. g. had no mind to ; and therefore saith , not to dispute the matter of fact , of which he confesses there was some little use ( much as if i should say , that t. g. hath shewn little or no ingenuity in his book , and he to his great comfort should infer there was some little ingenuity in it ) but petavius his words , are supprimi omittique satius visum est , it was thought better to suppress them and let them alone ; was it all one in t. g's sense to use them , and to omit the use of them ? and for the little reason , he saith , he had to doubt my sincerity in relating petavius his words , from what i did with trigautius ; in truth there was as little as might be ; but i have great reason to believe from his usage of me about other citations , that if he could have found any words before or after , that he could have interpreted to another sense , he would have made little or no conscience of saying , those were the words i translated thus and thus . but instead of debating the matter of fact as to the primitive church , he saith , he will give me the answer of mr. thorndike , that at that time there might be jealousie of offence in having images in churches , before idolatry was quite rooted out , of which afterwards there might be no appearance ; and therefore they were afterwards admitted all over , for it is manifest , the church is tyed no farther , than there can appear danger of idolatry . this , he calls mr. thorndikes answer , but it is truly the answer of petavius , from whose words it seems to be translated ; dum periculum erat , saith petavius , ne offensionis aliquid traheret externa quorundam rituum species , cum iis que ab ethnicis celebrabantur , similitudine ipsa congruens , &c. therefore i shall consider it as the answer of petavius , and here examine , whether this were the ground on which the primitive church did forbear the use and worship of images ? i shall prove that it was not from these two arguments . . because the reasons given by them against the worship of images will equally hold against the worship of images among christians . . because the notion of idolatry , which they charged the heathens with , may be common to christians with them . . this supposes the primitive christians to look on the worship of images as in it self indifferent , and to be made good or evil according to the nature of the object represented by them : which is a supposition as remote from the sense of the primitive church as any thing we can easily imagine . for then all the arguments used by them against the worship of images must have been deduced only from the objects represented , or the nature of the worship given to them ; whereas they frequently argue from the unsuitableness of images as a means of worship , and the prohibition of the divine law. would any man of common sense that had thought the worship of images in it self indifferent , have said as origen doth ; that the christians as well as the iews abstain from the worship of images for the sake of the law of god , which requires rather that we should dye than defile our selves with such impieties ? yes , it may be said , this is acknowledged that the law of god did forbid the worship of the heathen images ; but they who make this answer never looked into origen , or have forgotten what they read there ; for origen doth not there give an account why the christians did not comply with the heathen idolatry ; but why the christians had no images in their own worship . for celsus charges this upon the christians , that they thought it such a mighty matter , that they had no images , whereas herein , saith he , they were but like the barbarous scythians , numidians , and seres , and other nations that had neither religion , nor civility . to this origen answers , that we are not only to look at the bare action , but at the reason and ground of it , for those that agree in the same thing , may yet have very different principles ; and they that do it on a good principle do well , and not otherwise ; as for instance , the stoicks forbear adultery , and so may the epicureans ; but the former do it , because it is a thing repugnant to nature , and civil society ; the latter , because allowing themselves this single pleasure may debar them of many more : so , saith he , in this matter those barbarous nations forbear images on other accounts than iews and christians do , who dare not make use of this way of worshipping god. observe , that he doth not say this of the way of worshipping false gods , or images for gods , but of worshippin 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the deity . and he gives three principal reasons wherein they differed from those nations . . because this way of worship did disparage the deity ; ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 again ) by drawing it down to matter so fashioned . . because the evil spirits were apt to harbour in those images , and to take pleasure in the sacrifices there offered : which reason as far as it respects the blood of sacrifices doth relate to the heathen images , standing over the altars at which the sacrifices were offered . but then celsus might say , what is all this to the purpose ? my question is , why you have no images in your own way of worship ; therefore he adds his third reason , which made it utterly unlawful for christians as well as iews to worship them , which is the law of god mentioned before : now i say , if origen answered pertinently , he must give this as the reason why christians used no images in their own way of worship ; and consequently was so far from thinking the worship of images indifferent , that he thought christians ought rather to suffer martyrdom than to worship them . but to put this beyond possibility of contradiction ; origen mentions a saying of heraclitus objected by celsus , that it is a foolish thing to pray to images , unless a man know the gods and heroes worshipped by them ; which saying celsus approves , and saith , the christians were fools , because they utterly contemned images , ( in totum , the latin interpreter renders it ) to which origen thus answers , we acknowledge that god may be known , and his only son , and those whom he hath honoured with the title of gods , who partake of his divinity , and are different from the heathen deities which the scripture calls devils ( i.e. causally if not essentially , as cajetan distinguisheth ) but , saith he , it is impossible for him that knows god to worship images . mark that , he doth not say , it is impossible for him that knows the idols of the heathens to worship them ; or the evil spirits that lurk in their images : but for him , that knows the true god , and his son christ iesus , and the holy angels to do it . is it possible after this , to believe that origen supposed the worship of images to be indifferent in it self , and that god and christ and angels might be lawfully worshipped by them ? was all this only periculum offensionis , jealousie of offence , before the heathen idolatry was rooted out ? which supposition makes the primitive christians in plain terms jugglers and impostors , to pretend that to be utterly unlawful even for themselves to do ; and to mean no more by it , but this ; yes , it is unlawful to do it , while there is any danger of heathenism , but when once that is overthrown , then we may worship images as well as the best of them . for my part , i believe the primitive christians to have been men of so much honesty and integrity , that they would never have talked at this rate against the worship of images , ( as not only origen , but the rest of them , the best , and wisest among them did , as i have shewed in the foregoing chapter ) if they had this secret reserve in their minds , that when heathenism was sunk past recovery , then they might do the same things , which they utterly condemned now . which would be just like some that we have heard of , who while there was any likelyhood of the royal authority of this nation recovering itself , then they cry'd out upon kingly government as illegal , tyrannical and antichristian ; but when the king was murdered , and the power came into their own hands , then it was lawful for the saints to exercise that power , which was not fit to be enjoyed by the wicked of the world : so these men make the most excellent christians to be like a pack of hypocrites . the heathens every where asked them , as may be seen in lactantius , arnobius , minucius and others , as well as origen ; what is the matter with you christians , that you have no images in your churches ? what if you dare not joyn with us in our worship , why do not you make use of them in your own ? is it only humour , singularity , and affectation of novelty in you ? if it be , you shew what manner of men you are . no truly ; say they , gravely and seriously , we do it not , because we dare not do it ; for we are afraid of displeasing and dishonouring god by it , and we will on that account rather choose to dye than do it . upon such an answer , the heathens might think them honest and simple men , that did not know what to do with their lives , who were so willing to part with them on such easie terms . but if they had heard , the bottom of all this was , only a cunning and sly trick to undermine paganism , and that they meant no such thing , as though it were unlawful in it self , but only unlawful till they had gotten the better of them ; what would they have thought of such men ? no otherwise , than that they were a company of base hypocrites , that pretended one thing and meant another ; and that the wicked of the world might not worship images , but the saints might , when they had the power in their hands , although before they declaimed against it , as the most vile , mean , and unworthy way of worship , that ever came into the heads of men ; that there could be no religion , where it obtained ; that it was worse than the worship of beasts ; that it was more reasonable to worship the artificers themselves than the images made by them ; that rats and mice had less folly than mankind , for they had no fears of what men fell down before , with trembling and great shews of devotion . these , and many such things as these , the fathers speak freely , openly , frequently , on all occasions , in all places against the worship of images ; and after all this , was no more meant by it but only this , thou o heathen must not worship images , but i may ? and why not as well ( might the heathen reply ) thou must not commit adultery , but i may ? does the nature of the commands you boast so much of alter with mens persons ? is that indeed lawful for you that is not for us ? where doth the law of moses say , thou shalt not worship the images that we worship , but thou maist worship the images that christians worship ? and if the law makes no difference , either leave off your foolish babbling against our images , or condemn your own . for to our understanding , yours are as much against the law as ours are . and so the primitive christians thought , who very honestly and sincerely declared as much in their words and actions ; witness not only the opinions of all the writers in behalf of christianity , ( not one excepted ) that ever had occasion to mention this matter ; but the decree of as good a council as was to be had at that time ; i mean the eliberitan , in the famous canon to that purpose , can. . it pleaseth us to have no pictures in churches , lest that which is worshipped be painted upon walls . it is a pleasant thing to see what work our adversaries make with this innocent canon ; sometimes , it is a meer forgery of hereticks ( i wonder such men do not say the same of the second commandment ) sometimes , the bishops that met there were not so wise as they should have been ; ( no nor moses and the prophets , nor christ and the primitive christians in this matter ) sometimes , that they spake only against pictures upon walls ( because the salt-peter of the walls would be apt to deface them ; or because in case of persecution , they could not do as rachel did , carry their teraphim along with them ) ; but that which petavius sticks to , is , that the memory of heathen idolatry was yet fresh , and therefore it was not thought expedient to have images in the oratories or temples of christians . so that , after all the tricks and shifts of our adversaries , the thing it self is yielded to us , viz. that this canon is against such images , as are now used and worshipped in the roman church . but , saith he , the reason doth not hold still , for then the memory of heathen idolatry was not out of mens minds . it is a wonderful thing to me , that these spanish bishops should be able to tell their own reason no better than so . you say , you will have no images in churches : why so i beseech you ? lest that , say they , which is worshipped be painted upon walls : worshipped by whom ? do you mean by heathens ? no , we speak of the churches of christians . but why may not that which is worshipped be painted ? we think that reason enough to any man , that considers the being worshipped , and that which is painted , and the mighty disparagement to an infinite invisible being to be drawn in lines and colours with a design to honour him thereby . this to me seems a reason that holds equally at all times . for was the being worshipped more unfit to be drawn so soon after heathen idolatry , than he would be afterwards ? methinks it had been much better done then , while the skilful artificers were living . but those were heathen idolaters ; suppose they were , you must make use of them , or none , if that which tertullian and others say , hold true , that it is forbidden to christians to make images ; which surely they would never have said , if they had thought the time would come , when the heathen idolatry should be forgotten , and then the christians might worship images . well ; but all this is only against pictures upon walls , but for all that , saith bellarmin , they might have images in frames , or upon veils . it seems then that which is adored , might be painted well enough , provided it be not upon a wall ; but methinks , it is more repugnant to an infinite being to be confined within a frame , than to be drawn upon a wall : and the decree is , to have no pictures in churches ; but if they were in frames , or upon veils , would they not be in churches still ? what made epiphanius then so angry at seeing an image upon a veil at anablatha ? was not heathen idolatry forgotten enough yet ? it seems not , for it was coming in again under other pretences . but that good mans spirit was stirred within him at the apprehension of it , and could not be quiet , till he had rent asunder the veil , and written to the bishop of hierusalem to prevent the like enormity . one would have thought by this time the jealousie of offence might have been worn out , the heathen idolatry being suppressed ; but yet it seems epiphanius did not understand his christian liberty in this matter . nay so far from it , that he plainly and positively affirms , that such an image though upon a veil and not the walls , was contra autoritatem scripturarum , contra religionem nostram , against the law of god , and the christian religion . but it may be , this was some heathen idol , or image of a false god ; no , so far from it , that epiphanius could not tell whether it was an image of christ , or of some saint ; but this he could tell , that he was sure it was against the authority of the scriptures . and was epiphanius so great a dunce to imagine a thing indifferent in it self , and applyed to a due object of worship , should be directly opposite to the law of god ? men may talk of the fathers , and magnifie the fathers , and seem to make the authority of the fathers next to infallible ; and yet there are none who expose them more to contempt , than they who give such answers as these , so directly against the plainest sense and meaning of their words . i confess , those speak more consonantly to their principles , who reject the authority of this epistle , at least of this part of it ; but there is not the least colour or pretence for it , from any m s. and petavius ingenuously confesseth , that he sees no ground to believe this part added to the former epistle . god be thanked , there is some little ingenuity yet left in the world : and which is the greater wonder , among the iesuits too ; for not only petavius , but sirmondus owns the epistle of epiphanius to be genuine , quoting it to prove the antiquity of veils at the entrance of the church . if it be good for that purpose , it is i am sure as good for ours ; and so it was thought to be , by those who were no iconoclasts , i mean the author of the caroline books , and the gallican bishops who made use of this testimony , although themselves were against rending of painted veils . but commend me to the plain honesty of iohn damascen , who saith , one swallow makes no summer ; and of alphonsus à castro , who tells us , that epiphanius was an iconoclast , ( i. e. a terrible heretick with a hard name ) materially so but not formally , because the church had not determined the contrary . it seems it was no matter , what the law , or christian religion had determined ; for those were the things epiphanius took for his grounds . but he , good man , was a little too hot in this matter , and did not consider , that when the pagan idolatry was sufficiently out of mens minds , then it would be very lawful to have christ or saints not only drawn upon veils , or screens , but to have just such statues as the pagans had ; and to give them the very same worship which the prototypes deserve ; provided , that the people have forgotten mercury , apollo , and hercules ; and put s. francis , or s. ignatius , or s. christopher , or s. thomas beckett instead of them . o the divine power of names ! for that which would have been idolatry , downright paganish idolatry under the former names , becomes good catholick worship under the latter . but i do not see that any of the primitive christians did ever think , that the change of names , or persons would have wrought such wonders ; but that the worship of images would have continued the same thing , whatever names had been given to them . and what pleasant stories soever epiphanius the deacon tells in the second council of nice , concerning the disciples of the elder epiphanius , placing his image in a church dedicated to him in cyprus , yet petavius confesses , that in his time there were no images in the churches of cyprus , which he takes to be the reason of his mighty zeal against them . any thing rather than that which himself gives , viz. the authority of scriptures , and the christian religion . in the theodosian code we find a law of theodosius m. against the several parts of the heathen idolatry , the sacrifices , libations , incense , lights , &c. and after the rest , it comes particularly to their worship of images in these words , si quis vero mortali opere facta , & avum passura simulachra imposito ture venerabitur , ( ac ridioulo exemplo metuens subito quae pro se simulaverit ) vel redimita vitis arbore , vel erectâ effossis arâ cespitibus vanas imagines , humiliore licet muneris praemio , tamen plena religionis injuriâ honorare temptaverit , is utpote violatae religionis reus eâ domo seu possessione multabitur in quâ eum gentilitiâ constiterit superstitione famulatum . the meaning whereof is , that it was the forfeiture of house and land for any man to offer incense to images made by men , and that were of a perishing nature ; or that hung their garlands on trees , or raised altars of turf before their images ; for although the cost were less , yet the violation of religion was the same . this constitution i grant doth respect heathen images , but i say it proceeds upon such grounds which are common to all images , unless they be such as drop from heaven ; such as the image of edessa , and the rest mentioned by gretser , or that of diana of ephesus , or some few others that were pretended to have a divine original ; for such as these the constitution doth not reach , being divine and immortal , but for all others i do not see how they can escape the reason of this law. and it is altogether as ridiculous for christians to worship the things they have formed , as it was for the heathens to do it : ( where t. g. may learn the signification and etymology of simulachrum , à simulando ; for simulare is the same with effigiare , as the scholiast on that constitution tells him . ) in the same constitution , they are called sensu carentia simulachra , which are words put in on purpose to shew how stupid and senseless the worship of them is ; and are not all images among christians so ? have they not eyes and see not , and ears and hear not , as well as the heathen images ? or do they worship only living and sensible images ? moving i grant sometimes they do ; such as themistius upon aristotle tells us that daedaelus made , that moved by the help of quicksilver ; or springs , such as the holy rood of boxtel in kent , whose secret engines for moving the eyes and lips were laid open , and an anatomy lecture read upon them at pauls cross in henry the eighths time by bishop fisher. . that notion of idolatry which the heathens were charged with by the primitive christians , may be common to christians with them . therefore if the fear of idolatry kept them from the worship of images , and the same fear may justly continue where ever images are worshipped , then the christians rejecting of images , was not upon any reason peculiar to that age of the church . if men by being christians were uncapable of being idolaters without renouncing christianity , there were some pretence for laying aside the fears and jealousies of idolatry , when the christian religion had prevailed in the world . but s. paul supposes that christians continuing so might be idolaters , neither be ye idolaters as were some of them . yet these were the persons who were baptized unto moses in the cloud and the sea ; and did all eat the same spiritual meat , and drink the same spiritual drink ( for they drank of that rock that followed them , and that rock was christ. ) which water they drank of , both before and after their idolatry ( and since the water followed them , ) at the very time of committing it ; so that those persons are said to be partakers of christ , who were charged with idolatry , and therefore s. paul is far from supposing that idolatry and the profession of christianity are inconsistent with each other . but it is said that there can be no idolatry to the images of christ , because the true object of worship is honoured by them ; nor to the images of saints , so long as men take them for saints , that is , gods creatures ; and give only an inferiour worship to them . if this be true , there appears to be little danger of idolatry among those who do not renounce christianity . but against this plea i put in these exceptions . . that upon the same grounds all the wiser heathens must be cleared from idolatry . for , . they owned the true object of divine worship , viz. one supreme god , as i have at large proved in the former discourses : both , those that went on the platonick hypothesis of one supreme deity , and others inferiour ; and those who believed one god to be worshipped under different representations . the former was the principle which iulian went upon , and the latter platonists , who opposed christianity to the utmost : the other was the principle of the stoicks and others ; and particularly owned by maximus madaurensis , who saith , that the heathens did worship one god under several names , thereby to express his several powers diffused through the world. now upon this supposition , that where there is a true object of worship represented , there can be no idolatry in worshipping the representation , i challenge any man to shew how the heathens that went on these principles were chargeable with idolatry . for is christ any otherwise a right object of worship , than as he is believed to be the true god ? if then there can be no idolatry towards an image of christ , neither can there be towards any representation of the true god. . the heathens did assert the difference between god and his creatures , as i have already proved , that they looked on their inferiour deities , as dependent on the supreme being created and governed by him : so that if the acknowledgement of saints to be gods creatures , doth hinder men from committing idolatry , it must do the same for all those who owned a subordination of deities ; which takes in the far greatest part of the heathen world. . they allowed the different degrees of worship suitable to the excellencies of the objects ; as soveraign worship to the supreme god , inferiour worship to the gods under him , and so proportionably till they came to their heroes , or deified persons to whom they allowed the lowest kind and degree of worship . for it is a palpable mistake in any who think they did give the same degrees of honour and worship to all . plutarch saith , that plato did put a difference between the worship of coelestial gods and daemons ; and so did xenocrates between the worship of gods and good daemons , and those sowre and morose , and vindictive spirits which lived in the air. plato , he tells us , made it the office of good daemons to carry mens prayers to the gods , and to bring from them oracles , and other divine gifts : and so their worship must be suitable to their imployment , which is inferiour to that of the coelestial deities , whose station and employment was more immediately under the supreme god. apuleius thus reckons up the order of deities according to plato . . the supreme god , the author and ruler of all . . the coelestial deities , spiritual , immortal , good , and infinitely happy ; to whom the government of things is committed next under god ; but because they supposed no immediate communication between these coelestial gods and men , therefore they ranked between them and men , . daemons , as intercessors between the gods and men , who were subservient to the coelestial gods. . the lowest sort of daemons , he saith , are souls discharged of the body ; which if they take care of their posterity , are called lares , or domestick gods ( lar , in the old hetruscan language , signifies a prince , thence the lares are the gods of families ) and those who were good had the title of gods for honours sake conferred upon them , as he speaks . but he confesses , that there was a peculiar honour belonging to the supreme god , cum sit summi deorum hic honor proprius ; and him they did solemnly invocate , as not only appears by frequent passages in plato , but by that of boethius ; for , as plato saith , we ought to invocate the divine assistance in the least affairs ; therefore in so great a matter , invocandum rerum omnium patrem , we ought to call upon god the father of all things . next after him they prayed to the coelestial deities ; which prayers , the inferiour order of spirits was to carry up , and to bring down answers . so that the addresses were made to the coelestial deities , which the aereal daemons carried to them , saith apuleius , to keep a due distance between gods and men . and although the other platonists differ from apuleius in the manner of reckoning up the several orders of inferiour deities , as may be seen in alcinous , proclus , iamblichus , and others ; yet they all agree in making one supreme god , the first author and cause of all things , and therefore making an infinite distance between him and his creatures ; and that there are several degrees of the beings that are to be worshipped under him ; some as the bestowers of blessings but subordinate to the supreme , and others only as intercessors between the gods and men. diogenes laertius saith of pythagoras , that he charged his disciples , not to give equal degrees of honour to the gods and heroes . herodotus saith of the greeks , that they worshipped hercules two waies , one as an immortal deity , and so they sacrificed to him ; and another as a hero , and so they celebrated his memory . isocrates distinguisheth between the honours of heroes and gods , when he speaks of menelaus and helena : but the distinction is no where more fully expressed than in the greek inscription upon the statue of regilla , wife to herodes atticus , as salmasius thinks , which was set up in his temple at triopium , and taken from the statue it self by sirmondus ; where it is said , that she had neither the honour of a mortal , nor yet that which was proper to the gods. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . if any ask wherein the difference of these honours lay ; lilius gyraldus saith , that the gods were worshipped to the east , the heroes to the west . vossius thinks , that among the greeks and romans , it lay in having their images carried in the publick processions , but without sacrifices ; and their names put into the saliar hymns at rome ; and inserted into the peplus of minerva at athens . hesychius makes the honour of a hero to lie in a temple , a statue , and a fountain ; but plutarch in the life of alexander saith , that he sent to the oracle of ammon to know whether hephaestion should be made a god or no ; the oracle answered , that they should honour him and sacrifice to him as to a hero ; whence we observe that the material act of sacrifice , as t. g. speaks , might be common to gods and heroes , but the inward intention of the mind made the great difference between their worship , besides that which is expressed in the inscription of regilla , viz. that the honour of one sort was looked on as a voluntary act , but the other was a necessary duty ; they might sacrifice and pray to the heroes ( who were the beati amongst them ) but no man was absolutely bound to do it ; but those who were devout and religious would : as salmasius there explains the words of the inscription . and it is observed by the criticks , that among the greeks 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are words of a different importance , i. e. in the language of the court of rome , to beatify , and to canonize . for i perceive the heathen heroes did stand upon their preferment as well as the roman saints , and those who had been beatified a competent time , came to be canonized at last : so plutarch saith , of isis and osiris , hercules and bacchus , that for their vertues , of good daemons they were promoted to deities ; and of lampsaca , that she had at first only heroical honour given her , and afterwards came to divine . it seems by the inscription of herodes , and by the testament of epicteta extant in greek in the collection of inscriptions , that it was in the power of particular families to keep festival daies in honour of some of their own family , and to give heroical honours to them . in that noble inscription at venice , we find three daies appointed every year to be kept , and a confraternity established for that purpose with the laws of it ; the first day to be observed in honour of the muses , and sacrifices to be offered to them as deities ; the second and third in honour of the heroes of the family ; between which honour , and that of deities , they shewed the difference by the distance of time between them and the preference given to the other . but wherein soever the difference lay , that there was a distinction acknowledged among them appears , by this passage of valerius in his excellent oration extant in dionysius halicarnass . i call , saith he , the gods to witness , whose temples , and altars , our family hath worshipped with common sacrifices ; and next after them , i call the genii of our ancestors , to whom we give 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the second honours next to the gods ( as celsus calls those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the due honours that belong to the lower daemons ; which he contends ought to be given to them ) from which we take notice , that the heathens did not confound all degrees of divine worship , giving to the lowest object the same which they supposed to be due to the coelestial deities , or the supreme god : so that if the distinction of divine worship will excuse from idolatry , the heathens were not to blame for it . . if this pretence doth excuse from idolatry , the carpocratian hereticks were unjustly charged by irenaeus , epiphanius , and s. augustin ; for they are said , to worship the images of christ together with the philosophers , pythagoras , plato , and aristotle . wherein lay the fault of these hereticks ? was it only in joyning the philosophers together with christ ? if that had been all , it had been easie to have said , that they worshipped the philosophers together with christ ; but they take particular notice of it as a thing unusual and blame-worthy , that they worshipped the images of christ , which they pretended to have had from pilat : which had been no wonder , if there had been as many images of christ then extant , as feuardentius pretends , viz. the image of christ taken by nicodemus ( not i suppose when he came by night to our saviour ) that at edessa , besides those which s. luke drew of him ; if there had been so many images abroad of him in veneration among christians , why should this be pitched upon as a peculiar thing of these gnosticks , that they had some images painted , others made of other matters , which they crowned and set forth , or worshipped as the heathens did , among which was an image of christ , as irenaeus reports it ? and supposing they had worshipped the images of christ as the gentiles did worship their images , wherein were they to blame , if the honour given to the image be not the honour of the image , but of that which is represented by it ? and since christ deserves our highest worship , on this pretence they deserved no blame at all in giving divine worship of the highest degree to the image of christ. . the primitive christians did utterly refuse to worship the images of emperors , although they were acknowledged to be gods creatures therefore i say , according to their sense , acknowledging the saints to be gods creatures , is not a sufficient ground to excuse the worship of the images of saints from idolatry . as in pliny's epistle to trajan ( mentioned before ) one of the tryals of christians was , whether they would imagini tuae thure ac vino supplicare ; use the religious rites that were then customary , of incense , libation , and supplication before the emperours image ; this minucius calls ad imagines supplicare , to pray before their images : which pliny saith , no true christian could ever be brought to : but would rather suffer martyrdom than do it . s. hierome speaking of nebuchadnezzars image , saith , statuam seu imaginem cultores dei adorare non debent ; the worshippers of god ought not to worship an image ; let , saith he , the iudges and magistrates take notice of this , that worship the emperours statues ; that they do that which the three children pleased god by not doing . by which we see , it was not only the statues of heathen emperours , which the christians refused to give religious worship to ; but of the most pious and christian ; which out of the flattery of princes , those who expected , or received honours , were willing to continue under christian emperours ; but it was at last absolutely forbidden by a constitution of theodosius ; of which i have spoken already , in the discourse about the nature of divine worship . but upon what reason came this to be accounted unlawful among christians ; if it were lawful to worship the images of saints , supposing them to be gods creatures ? is it possible they should think the emperours to be otherwise ? i do not think that the souldiers who were trepann'd by iulian , to offer incense to his image at the receiving the donative ( and after they understood what they did , were ready to run mad with indignation at themselves , crying out in the streets , we are christians , and ran to the emperour , desiring they might suffer martyrdom for the christian faith , which they were supposed to deny by that act of theirs , as gregory nazianzen , and theodoret relate the story ) did imagine that iulian was any other than one of gods creatures ; or that they had any belief of his being a god ; but the christians looked on the act it self of offering incense , as unlawful to be done to the image of any creature ; or to the image it self , because it was a creature , and that of the meanest sort , viz. the work of mens hands . . it is not enough for any of gods creatures to be worshipped under the notion of saints ; if any worship be given to them , which is above the rank of creatures , i. e. any of that worship which belongs to god. for none can have greater confidence of the saintship of any persons whose images they worshipped , ( those excepted which are revealed in scripture ) than many of the heathens had of the goodness of the deities which they worshipped . and if we observe the method , which origen , s. cyril , s. augustin and other christian writers took to prove them to be evil spirits which they worshipped , we shall find the great argument was from the nature of the worship given to them . for , say they , we find in scripture that good angels have refused that worship which they seem so desirous of ; and therefore there is just reason to suspect that these are not good angels ; ( although they firmly believed them to be so , and hierocles saith , god forbid we should worship any other ; and the heathens in s. augustin , say peremptorily , they did not worship devils , but angels and the servants of the great god. ) so say i , as to those who are worshipped under the name of saints or angels , if in , or at their images such things are spoken or done , which tend to the encouraging that worship which the primitive christians refused as idolatry , there is the same reason still to suspect those are not good but evil spirits ; under whose name or representation soever they appear . for it is as easie for them to play the same tricks among christians , which they did among heathens ; for then they pretended to be good spirits , and why may they not do the same still ? if we have a fuller discovery of their design to impose upon the world , the folly of men is so much the greater to be abused by them ; and the gentiles were in that respect far more excuseable than christians , because god had not discovered the cheat and artifices of evil spirits to them , so as he hath done to us by the christian religion . whatever pretence of miracles , or visions , or appearances there be , if the design of them be to advance a way of worship contrary to the law of god , we have the same reason to believe that evil spirits are the causes of them , as the primitive christians had , that evil spirits were worshipped by the heathens under the notion of good. . the arrians believed christ to be a creature , and yet were charged with idolatry by the fathers . if it be said , that they did give a higher degree of worship to christ , than any do to saints ; i answer , that they did only give a degree of worship proportionable to the degrees of excellency supposed to be in him , far above any other creatures whatsoever . but still that worship was inferiour to that which they gave to god the father , according to the opinion of those persons i dispute against . for if it be impossible for a man that believes the incomparable distance between god and the most excellent of his creatures , to attribute the honour due to god alone to any creature ; then , say i , it is impossible for those who believed one god the father , to give to the son whom they supposed to be a creature , the honour which was peculiar to god. it must be therefore on their own supposition , an inferiour and subordinate honour ; and at the highest such as the platonists gave to their coelestial deities . and although the arrians did invocate christ , and put their trust in him ; yet they still supposed him to be a creature , and therefore believed that all the power and authority he had , was given to him ; so that the worship they gave to christ must be inferiour to that honour they gave to the supreme god , whom they believed to be supreme , absolute , and independent . but notwithstanding all this , the fathers by multitudes of testimonies already produced do condemn the arrians as guilty of idolatry : and therefore they could not believe , that the owning of saints to be gods creatures did alter the state of the controversie , and make such christians uncapable of idolatry . . i come to the second period , wherein images were brought into the christian church , but no worship allowed to be given to them . and i am so far from thinking , that the forbearance of the use of images , was from the fear of complyance with the pagan idolatry , that i much rather believe the introducing of images was out of complyance with the gentile worship . for eusebius in that memorable testimony concerning the statue at paneas , or caesarea philippi , which , he saith , was said to be the image of christ and the syrophoenician woman , doth attribute the preserving the images of christ and peter and paul to a heathen custome , which , he saith , was done 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. saith valesius , inconsideratè & imprudenter , contra veterem disciplinam , incautè : very unadvisedly , and against the ancient rules of the church . and yet ( to my great amazement ) this place of eusebius is on all occasions produced to justifie the antiquity and worship of images : if it had been only brought to prove , that heathenish customes did by degrees creep into the christian church , after it obtained ease and prosperity , it were a sufficient proof of it . not that i think , this image was ever intended for christ or the syrophoenician woman , but because eusebius saith , the people had gotten such a tradition among them ; and were then willing to turn their images to the stories of the gospel . where they finding a syrophoenician woman making her address to our saviour ; and a tradition being among them that she was of this place , and there finding two images of brass , the one in a form of a supplicant upon her knees with her hands stretched out ; and the other over against her with a hand extended to receive her , the common people seeing these figures to agree so luckily with the story of the gospel , presently concluded these must be the very images of christ and the woman ; and that the woman , out of meer gratitude , upon her return home was at this great expence of two brass statues ; although the gospel saith , she had spent all that she had on physitians before her miraculous cure : and it would have been another miracle , for such an image of christ to have stood untouched in a gentile city during so many persecutions of christians , especially when asterius in photius saith , this very statue was demolished by maximinus . i confess it seems most probable to me , to have been the image of the city paneas supplicating to the emperour ; for i find the very same representations in the ancient coines ; particularly those of achaia , bithynia , macedonia , and hispania ; wherein the provinces are represented in the form of a woman supplicating , and the emperour hadrian in the same habit and posture , as the image at paneas is described by eusebius . and that which adds more probability to this conjecture , is , that bithynia is so represented , because of the kindness done by hadrian to nicomedia in the restoring of it after its fall by an earthquake , and caesarea is said by eusebius to have suffered by an earthquake at the same time ; and after such a favour to the city , it was no wonder to have two such brass statues erected for the emperours honour . but supposing this tradition were true , it signifies no more , than that this gentile custome was observed by a syrophoenician woman in a gentile city ; and what is this to the worship of images in christian churches ? for eusebius doth plainly speak of gentiles when he saith , it is not to be wondered that those gentiles who received benefits by our saviour should do these things ; when , saith he , we see the images of his apostles paul and peter and christ himself , preserved in pictures being done in colours , it being their custome to honour their benefactors after this manner . i appeal to any man of common sense , whether eusebius doth not herein speak of a meer gentile custome ; but baronius in spight of the greek will have it thus , quod majores nostri ad gentilis consuetudinis similitudinem quàm proximè accedentes ; at which place , is. casaubon sets this marginal note , graeca lege & miraberis ; but , suppose this were the sense of eusebius , what is to be gained by it , save only , that the bringing of images among christians was a meer imitation of gentilism , and introducing the heathen customes into the christian church ? yet baronius hath something more to say for this image , viz. that being placed in the diaconicon or vestry of the church of paneas , it was there worshipped by christians , for which he quotes nicephorus ; whom at other times he rejects as a fabulous writer . and it is observable , that philostorgius ( out of whom nicephorus takes the other circumstances of his relation ) is so far from saying any thing of the worship of this image , that he saith expresly the contrary , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 giving no manner of worship to it ; to which he adds the reason for it ; because it is not lawful for christians to worship either brass or any other matter ; no not although this image were believed to represent christ after his incarnation . what shall be said to such an author who not only omits so considerable a passage , but puts in words of his own directly contrary to his meaning ? the author of the caroline book , saith , that allowing this story to be true ( which by comparing the relation of asterius in photius with what eusebius , sozomen and the rest say , there seems to be some reason to suspect ) yet it signifies nothing to the worship of images ; such a statue being erected by a weak ignorant woman , to express her gratitude after the best fashion among the gentiles ; and what doth this signifie to the church of god ? and supposing the miraculous cures to be wrought by the herb that grew at the foot of the statue ; yet that doth not prove any worship of images , but that men ought to leave their former idols , and embrace the true faith ; for , saith he , according to the apostle signs are not for believers , but for unbelievers . but if we allow the story as it is reported by sozomen , that the christians gathered up the broken fragments of the statue , and laid them up in the church , i grant it proves that those christians did not abhor the use of images , although there be no proof of any worship they gave to them : and this seems to be as much as petavius thinks can be made of this story . but baronius is not content with the syrophoenician womans example in this matter of images , but he produces the apostles council at antioch , and a venerable decree made by them there , which commands christians to make images of christ instead of heathen idols ; but our comfort is , that petavius discards this as a meer forgery , as most of the things of the latter greeks , he saith , are ; and yet baronius saith , this canon is made use of by the second nicene council ; which shews what excellent authorities that council relyed upon . nicolas de clemangis is so far from thinking there was any apostolical decree in this matter , that he saith , the universal church did decree for the sake of the gentile converts , that there should be no images at all in churches ; which decree , he saith , was afterwards repealed . i would he had told us by what authority ; and why other commandments and decrees might not be repealed as well as that ? the first authentick testimony of any thing like images among christians , is that of the painted chalices in tertullian ; wherein christ was represented under the embleme of a shepherd with a sheep on his back ; ( as it was very usual among the romans to have emblematical figures on their cups ) but was ever any man so weak among them , not to distinguish between the ornaments of their cups and glasses , and their sacred images ? how ridiculous would that man have been , that should have proved at that time that christians worshipped images , because they made use of painted glasses ? if this signifies any thing , why do they quarrel with us , that have painted glass windows in our churches ? all that can be inferred from hence is , that the church at that time did not think emblematical figures unlawful ornaments of cups or chalices ; and do we think otherwise ? this i confess doth sufficiently prove that the roman church did think ornamental images lawful ; but it doth no more prove the worship of images , than the very same emblem often used before protestant books , doth prove that those books are worshipped by us . i cannot find any thing more that looks like any evidence for images for the first three hundred years ; afterwards , there began to be some appearances of some , in some places ; but they met with different entertainment , according to the several apprehensions of men . for although the whole christian church agreed in refusing to worship images ; yet they were of several opinions as to the use of them . some followed the strict opinion of tertullian , clemens alexandrinus , and origen , who thought the very making of images unlawful ; others thought it not unlawful to make them , but to use them in churches , as the eliberitan bishops , and epiphanius ; others thought it not unlawful to have images there , provided no worship were given to them . it is ridiculous to bring s. hierom's saucomariae , for any other purpose , than to prove that the apostles images were then seen upon their common drinking cups , of which he speaks ; as any one may easily see that reads the passage , and the sport he makes with canthelius about it : which will prove as much towards the worship of images , as having the apostles pictures on a pack of cards would do . whatever the custome was in tertullians time ( if at least he speaks of the sacred chalices ) we are sure in s. augustines time there were no images of mankind on the sacred vessels . for although these , saith he , are consecrated to a sacred use , and are the work of mens hands ; yet they have not a mouth and speak not , nor eyes and see not , as the heathen images had ; and afterwards saith , that the humane figure doth more to deceive mankind , as to their worship , than the want of sense doth to correct their errour ; and the great cause of the madness of idolatry is , that the likeness to a living being prevails more on the affections of miserable men to worship them , than their knowledge that they are not living doth to the contempt of them . is it possible such a man as s. austin was , could use such expressions as these , if in his time there had been any images then used or worshipped in christian churches ? what need he have so much as mentioned the sacred utensils , if there had been sacred images ? and how could he have urged those things against heathen images , which would altogether have held as well against christian ? for it was not the opinion of the heathens he disputed against , so much as the proneness of men to be seduced to worship such representations , which they find to be like themselves . to this bellarmin answers , that s. augustin doth not say there were no images in churches , but only that the humane shape of images did tend much to increase their errour who worshipped them for gods. but would any man of common sense have used those arguments against images , which do not suppose them already worshipped for gods ; but imply the danger of being seduced to that worship where ever they are , in case there were such images in christian churches ? the worship s. augustin speaks against , is adoring , or praying looking on an image , ( quis autem ador at vel orat intuens simulachrum ) which whosoever doth , saith he , is so affected as to think he is heard by that he prays before , and may receive help by it ; and yet these persons s. augustin disputes against , declare that they did not worship their images for gods , but only as the signs or representations of that being which they worshipped . which s. augustin shews to be a most unlikely thing , because the manner of address , and the figure of their images did shew that they did apprehend something more than meer signs in them whatever they pretended . i do not deny that there were pictures abroad in s. augustins time , of christ and peter and paul , for himself doth mention them ; but he declares so little reverence for them , that he saith they deserved to be deceived who looked on them as books to be instructed by ; and it was no wonder to see feigners of false doctrines to be led aside by painters . by which it is plain , s. augustin did not think pictures and images to be such good helps for the ignorant , as was afterwards pretended . and for those , who worshipped pictures , s. augustin doth not deny that there were such in his time , but , he reckons them among the ignorant and superstitious , who by their practises did dishonour their profession of christianity . so that although we grant in the time of s. augustin there were several pictures of holy men mentioned in scripture in several places , yet there is no clear evidence that they were then brought into the african churches any more than into those of cyprus or palestine ; but they were in the latter end of the fourth century in some of the more eastern churches , as appears by the testimonies of gregory nyssen , and asterius produced by petavius and others . and it is a very probable conjecture of daillè , that in those parts of pontus and cappadocia , they were first introduced , out of a complyance with gentilism ; and in imitation of the practice of gregory thaumaturgus , whom nyssen commends for changing the heathen festivals into christian , the better to draw the heathens to christianity ; which seemed a very plausible pretence , but was attended with very bad success , when christianity came to be by this means , but reformed paganism , as to the matter of divine worship . this same principle in all probability brought the pictures of martyrs and others into the churches of italy , of which prudentius and paulinus speak ; and this latter confesseth , it was a rare custome in his time to have pictures in churches , — pingere sanctas raro more domos . and thought it necessary to make an apology for it , which he doth by saying , he looked on this as a good means to draw the rude and barbarous people from their heathen customes , changing the pleasure of pictures for that of drinking at the sepulchres of martyrs ; but there is not the least intimation of any worship then given to them . . after that the use of images had prevailed both in the eastern and western parts , men came by degrees to the worship of them : which is the third period observable in this controversie . as to which there are these things remarkable , . that it began first among the ignorant and superstitious people ; of whom s. augustin speaks in his time , that they were the worshippers of pictures ; and afterwards in the epistle of gregorius m. to serenus bishop of marseilles it is observable , that the people began to worship the images in churches in perfect opposition to serenus their bishop ; who was so much displeased at it , that he demolished them , and brake them in pieces : which act of his so exasperated them , that they separated from his communion . the news of this coming to rome ( probably from some of these schismaticks , who alwayes loved to take sanctuary in rome , and appeal thither against their bishops , ) the pope writes to the bishop about it by one cyriacus , he slights the popes letters , as if he could not believe they were written by him ; gregory being nettled at this , writes again to him ; and reproves him for breaking down the images , but commends him for not allowing the worship of them . so that we find the first beginning of the worship of images in these western parts to have been by the folly and superstition of the people expresly against the will of their own bishop and the bishop of rome . bellarmin saith , that gregory only reproved the superstitious worship of images , i. e. that by which they are worshipped as gods. which is a desperate shift in a bad cause : for if gregory had intended any kind of worship to be given to images , could he not have expressed it himself ? he speaks plain enough about this matter in all other things , why did he not in distinguishing what worship was to be given to images , and what not ? we praised you ; saith he , that you forbad the worship of images ( so adorari must be rendred , and not according to the modern sense of romish authors who would against all sense and reason appropriate that word to soveraign worship ) but we reprehended you for breaking them . it is one thing to worship an image , and another thing to learn by it what is to be worshipped . that ought not to be broken down which was set up in churches not to be worshipped , but only to instruct the minds of the ignorant . would any man of common sense have said this , that did allow any worship of images ? would bellarmin , or t.g. or any that embrace the second nicene and tridentine council have said that images are set up in churches ad instruendas solummodo mentes nescientium ; only to instruct the ignorant ? nay gregory goes yet farther , and tells serenus , he ought to call his people together , and shew them from scripture that it is not lawful to worship the work of mens hands , because it is written , thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve . which very place anastasius bishop of theopolis , in his epistle produced in the second nicene council , thus expounds ; mark , saith he , only is joyned to serve , and not to worship , adorare quidem licet , servire nequaquam , saith the latin translation there ; worship of other things is lawful but not the service , which is directly contrary to what gregory saith , who makes the worship of any other thing unlawful from these words ; and to conclude all , gregory saith , forbid not those who would make images ; adorare verò imagines modis omnibus devita , but by all means avoid the worship of them . what! no kind of worship to be allowed them ? no distinction of an inferiour , honorary , relative worship ? no , not the least tittle tending that way . but our adversaries run from this epistle to another to secundinus to help them out , where they say gregory approves the worship of images ; to which no other answer is needful , than that all that passage is wanting in the ancient m s. as dr. iames hath attested upon a diligent examination of them : and however , ought to be interpreted according to his deliberate sentence in the epistle to serenus , where he not only delivers his judgement , but backs it with the strongest reason . . that the worship of images no sooner prevailed , but it was objected against the christians by the iews and gentiles . thus it appears in the apology of leontius bishop of neapolis in cyprus , written against the iews , and read in the second nicene council ( and if the testimony of constantinus bishop of constantia in cyprus there extant , may be taken , he flourished in the time of mauricius ) in which the iew is introduced , upbraiding the christians with breaking the commandment of god in the worship of images , and leontius is put to miserable shifts to desend it . and in the dispute between the iew and the christian in the fifth action of that council ; the iew saith , i am scandalized at you christians , because you worship images , expresly against the command of god. and in the discourse of iohn bishop of thessalonica , the gentile saith , do not you christians not only paint the images of your saints , and worship them , but even the image of your god too ? so likewise think , that we do not worship the images themselves , but those incorporeal powers which are worshipped through them . and this learned bishop to make out the disparity between the heathens and them flyes to this lamentable refuge , that they did not believe the angels to be incorporeal as the gentiles did , and therefore might better make images of them . which is not the thing i now observe ; but only , that as soon as the worship of images began , the christians were sufficiently upbraided with it , by their enemies ; and therefore it is most unreasonable to suppose , that if the same worship had prevailed before , the iews and gentiles would not have objected the same thing ; when there were men that wanted neither advantages , nor ill will to do it . . that when the controversie about the worship of images grew hot , the defenders of them made use of treason and rebellion to maintain their cause . it would make one wonder to see how a late pretended author of the history of the iconoclasts in english hath endeavoured to accommodate that history to our reformation in england , making henry . to be leo isauricus and queen mary to be irene , ( which is not much for her honour . ) but suppose henry . to be leo , on whose side lay the charge of rebellion , which it is most certain the pope and his adherents were guilty of towards leo ? for gregory . confesses in his epistle to leo , that the people rebelled against him , out of zeal to their images ; and onuphrius saith , that by reason of leo's opposition to images , the pope deprived him of the remainder of the empire in italy . and this worthy historian himself saith , that the romans and others then subject to leo did not only throw down his statues from the high places and pillars whereon they stood , but would no longer pay him any tribute or obey his orders ; and he confesses afterwards , that upon the popes instigation they began a defensive conspiracy for religion ; ( just such another as the irish rebellion ; which that author hath heard of ) only this was far more bloody and cruel than the other . but p.t. is concerned for the popes honour , saying , that what the pope intended only for a defensive confederacy for religion , ( sore against the popes will ) proved an offensive conspiracy against the emperours temporal right ; in so much that all italy renounced his dominion . was the forbidding the paying tribute to the emperour only a defensive confederacy for religion ? yet this anastasius bibliothecarius , zonaras , cedrenus , glycas , theophanes , sigebert , otto frisingensis , conradus urspergensis , sigonius , rubeus and ciacconius all agree to have been done by the pope , upon the emperours declaring against the worship of images . but i need go no farther than this * historian , who delivers this for the doctrine of this pope in a synod at rome on behalf of images , viz. that it is against reason to believe , god would have a multitude of men , or all mankind to be damned rather than resist with armes , false doctrine favoured by one or a few soveraigns , seeing christ dyed rather to save souls than to humour soveraigns . most primitive and catholick doctrine ! and happily applyed to the worship of images . but he goes on , as if he had been giving instructions for another rebellion ; that the rule whereby they ought to judge of the time and lawfulness of their resistance , must not be their own fancies , but a real danger of altering the catholick faith , and the soveraigns actual endeavours to do it . so that according to this blessed doctrine , a rebellion on the account of religion , is a just and holy war ; and is it not easie to discern what such men would be at , who deliver this as the doctrine of their head of the church in a council of bishops ? if gregory . said such things , he did but speak agreeably to his actings ; if he did not , we know at least the mind of this historian ; who seems to have calculated his history for a meridian nearer home . . it is observable , how great and apparent a change was made in the doctrine and practice of the roman church in this matter of images , between the time of the two gregories , the first , and the second , i.e. between a. d. . wherein the first gregory died , and a.d. . wherein the second was made pope . it would afford a man some pleasure to compare the epistle of gregorius m. to serenus , with those of gregory . to the emperour leo , and yet both these according to the roman pretence infallible heads of the church . we have already seen what the former gregories opinion was , let us now compare it with his name-sakes . he charges the emperour leo with using the very same words that his predecessour had done in this matter , viz. that we are not to worship the work of mens hands ; whereas , saith he , very wisely , those words were spoken in scripture for the sake of such paganish idolaters , who worshipped golden , and silver , and wooden animals ( the pope calls them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) and said , these are thy gods , and there is no other god besides : ( as though there ever had been such fools in the world ! ) and for the sake of these works of the devils hands we are commanded not to worship them : but whatever is made by men for the honour of god ought to be worshipped ; in spight of his predecessours definition to the contrary in the very same case . and then he tells a very worshipful story of the pictures that were taken of christ and his apostles by their disciples ; and of the image christ sent for a present to the king of edessa ; it is great pity the veronica was forgotten by him ; but that piece of antiquity was not yet known . then , he bids the emperour go among the boys at school , and if he should say among them that he was an enemy to images , they would throw their table-books at his head ; because children alwayes love pictures ; and a little after , he saith , he was like ozias the king of the iews that destroyed the brazen serpent . it seems the bible was then a book not much studyed by the head of the church : for was it indeed ozias that demolished the brazen serpent ? and was this such a reproach to leo to be compared to good hezekiah ? and so very learnedly he falls to the commending the brazen serpent , and inveighing against that insolent king that broke it in pieces ? was not this a hopeful piece of infallibility ! after this , our learned historian saith , the pope declared him not only an heretick , but an heresiarch ; for what i beseech him ? for being of the same opinion as to the worship of images , that his predecessour gregory had been of ? but see how the case is altered in a hundred years ! in my mind , the emperour leo asked a very pertinent question of the pope ; how comes it to pass that the six general councils never said a word of images , if they were such necessary things ? and the pope made as impertinent an answer ; and why , saith the pope , did they say nothing of eating and drinking ? it seems images in his opinion were as necessary to religion , as meat and drink to our bodies ; for , he saith , the fathers carried their images to council with them , and travelled with them ; and i suppose slept with them too , as children do with their babies . . the artifices and methods ought to be observed whereby such a cause as the worship of images , was advanced and defended . for being destitute of any colour from scripture , reason , or antiquity , there was a necessity of making use of other means to supply the want of these . such as , . representing their adversaries to the greatest disadvantage ; which is done to purpose in the fifth action of the second nicene council . the demolishing of images was condemned in serenus by gregory as an act only of intemperate zeal and indiscretion ; but now it was become heresie , worse than heresie , iudaism , samaritanism , manichaism , nay worse than all these . this tarasius offers to prove in the beginning of that action ; from s. cyril , he compares them with nebuchadnezzar , who destroyed the cherubim ; from simeon stylites , to the samaritans ; and iohn the pretended vicar of the oriental bishops saith , the samaritans are worse than other hereticks ; therefore they ought to be called samaritans ; and constantinus bishop of constantia in cyprus saith , they are worse than samaritans . afterwards the same iohn saith , see how clearly we have demonstrated that the accusers of christians ( in this matter of images ) are partakers with nebuchadonosor , and samaritans , and iews and gentiles and manichees , and those who denyed that christ was come in the flesh. why ? what is the matter ? what article of the christian faith have they denied ? what ! have they renounced christianity , and been circumcised ! no : but worse ; being christians they call the worship of images idolatry . o dangerous heresie , and horrible blasphemy ! but it may be worth our while to consider a little the account which tarasius desires iohn to give the council of the beginning of this most detestable heresie ; viz. that after the death of solyman caliph of the arabs , homar succeeded him , after whom followed ezid or jezid a vain man ; in his time there was at tiberias one sarantapechys a leader of the iews , and a magician ; who promised long life to the chaliph on condition he would do what he would have him ; which he presently undertook with great promises of rewards to him ; then the iew required an edict for the demolishing and defacing all the images in the christian churches ; which was accordingly executed by the iews and arabs . the news of which excited the bishop of nacolia , and those about him to do the same thing ; but jezid lived not above two years and a half after ; and his son ulid destroyed this iew , and the images were again restored . this was the story told and approved in the council ; but zonaras saith , they were two iews who perswaded jezid to publish his edict against images , and that he dyed within the year ; and that his son seeking to punish them , they were fled into isauria , where they met with leo then a young man to whom they foretold the empire , and made him promise them that when he came to is , he would do one thing for them : which one thing proved to be the destruction of images ; and they challenging their promise when he was now emperour gave the occasion to the terrible persecution of images . cedrenus saith , that a few years before the reign of leo , some iews of laodicea in phoenicia went to jezid , and obtained the edict against images , and then he tells the rest of the story , as zonaras did . theophanes saith , it was but one iew of laodicea , and that jezid dyed before the edict was published in all parts of his dominions , and saith , this was in the seventh year of the empire of leo. constantinus manasses , and michael glycas only mention the iews foretelling the empire to him , and putting him upon the destruction of images , without the other circumstances . let the reader now judge whether this be not a probable story ; and purposely invented to cast the odium of rejecting the worship of images on the iews and saracens ? as though it could never have come from any christian. it was one iew , saith the vicar of the oriental bishops ; they were two iews or more , say the greek historians . it was a iew of tiberias , saith iohn ; no , saith cedrenus , they were two iews of laodicea ; but one saith theophanes . these iews met with leo when he was a young man and foretold the empire to him , say zonaras , manasses and glycas ; but a few years before the reign of leo , saith cedrenus ; nay , saith theophanes , it was in the seventh year of leo ; in the eighth , saith baronius , for jozid did not reign before . was there ever a more consistent story than this ? but the author of the late history of the iconoclasts , thinks he hath found out a salvo for these contradictions . for he makes two several edicts under two jezids that were chaliphs ; the former of the two iews about a. d. . who were the men that foretold the empire to leo , and the other of sarantapechys to jezid the second in the time of leo ; this he hath borrowed from the french author , as he hath done all his quotations ( and i much question by his manner of citing them , whether he ever saw the books he quotes in his life . ) but this is said without the least shadow of proof ; for no one of all the historians , ever mention two edicts of the several iezids ; but all pretend to tell the very same story . and is it probable that the two iews who foretold the empire to leo , a. d. . should come to constantinople to leo , after a. d. . when leo began to oppose images ; meerly with a design to extirpate images , without proposing any other advantage to themselves by the emperour , as the greek historians say ? credat iudaeus . they are a sort of people , that know how to improve such an advantage to better purposes ; and their zeal against images was never so great , as the love of their own profit . but our english historian is not content with the fables of the greeks ; but he makes more of his own . for , he saith , these were samaritan sectaries , who were more precise than the rest of the iews , and were much troubled at the cherubims in the temple , and more at the respect which the christians tendered to the images of christ and his saints . i never saw a more pittiful pretender to history than this author ; who , if he offers to add to , or vary from his original , he makes the matter worse than he found it . for not one of his authors in the margin , say they were samaritans but only hebrews , as zonaras , and cedrenus ; his other authors elmacinus , and the chronicon orientale have not one word about it , where they mention iezid the chaliph of arabia . and yet granting they were samaritans , there is not the least ground for his saying , they were more precise in this matter of images than the rest of the iews ; for epiphanius himself , whom he quotes , suspects them of secret idolatry in mount gerizim , and the iews generally charge them with it : for they say , they worship the image of a dove on mount gerizim ; which maimonides affirms of them with great confidence , and obadias bartenora , with several others . it was therefore very unhappy for this historian to pitch upon the samaritan sectaries of all others , as the beginners of the heresie of the iconoclasts . and was it not luckily done to begin a history with so palpable a falshood ! but this was a pretty artifice to possess his reader at the entrance , that none but samaritan sectaries could be enemies to the worship of images : which , he knew , to have been the method of the second council of nice : only he pursued it with greater ignorance than they . . by fabulous stories and lying miracles . of the former we have many instances in the actions of that famous council ; but i shall only mention that out of the limonarion of the pretended sophronius about the spirit of fornication haunting a monk who had an image of the blessed virgin ; to whom the devil said , if thou wilt not worship that image , i will trouble thee no more . but the devil would not tell him this great secret till he had solemnly promised him , he would reveal it to no body . the monk next day told it to the abbot theodore , who assured him he had better go into all the stews in the city , than leave off the worship of that image ; with which the monk went away much comforted . but the devil soon after charged him with perjury ; the monk replyed , he had forsworn to god and not to him . upon which iohn vicar of the oriental bishops , said , it was better to forswear ones self , than to keep an oath for the destruction of images . and concerning miracles , it is observable , that tarasius confesses , that their images did work none in their dayes : because miracles were for unbelievers ; and yet manzo a bishop there present saith , he was cured of a disease by laying an image of christ upon the part affected . bellarmin and baronius say , the miracle of the image at berytus was done in those times ; and yet after the reading the story ( which made the good fathers weep ) tharasius saith those words , which make this story , by comparing these circumstances together , appear a meer fabulous imposture . for in the council of nice , the story is reported as written by s. athanasius near four hundred years before ; but not only those authors but sigebert saith it was done a. d. . and lambecius undertakes to prove that this story was never written by s. athanasius . but most remarkable is the passage which eutychius the patriarch of alexandria relates concerning the occasion of theophilus the emperours extirpating images out of churches . one of the courtiers had told him there was an image of the blessed virgin , from whose breasts there dropt milk upon her day ; but search being made the cheat was discovered , the church officers executed , and all images prohibited . if all the impostors of this kind were dealt with after the same manner , there would be fewer pretences to miracles wrought by images than there are . . by crying up those for martyrs , who suffered for the worship of images , and opposing the imperial edicts for pulling them down . thus pope gregory . in his epistle to leo magnifies the zeal of the women who killed the emperours officer who was sent to demolish the image of christ called antiphoneta , and afterwards suffered themselves for the tumult they raised in the city . but this was not the only act of zeal in the women in this good cause ; for as baronius relates it , out of the acts of stephanus extant in damascens works , when a new patriarch was set up in the room of germanus , they shook off all modesty , and ran into the church , and threw stones at the patriarch , and called him hireling , wolf , and what not ? one need not wonder at the mighty zeal of the women in this cause , for as pope gregory notably observes on behalf of images , the women were wont to take the little children in their arms , and shew them this and the other image ; which contributed mightily to the infallibility of oral tradition : when the women and nurses could point with their fingers to the articles of faith elegantly expressed in pictures , which the children did delight to look upon . the great number of martyrs in this cause , of which baronius glories , consisted chiefly of women and monks , who were the most zealous champions in it . and the late historian can hardly abstain from making the empress irene a martyr in this cause ; for in his epistle to the queen ( a lady of so incomparably greater virtue and goodness , that it is an affront to her majesty to commend such an one to her protection ) he had the boldness to tell her that the only imputation which assaults those princesses repute ( viz. irene and theodora ) was their piety in restoring the religious use and veneration of holy images to the eastern empire . what can be expected from such an historian , who durst in the face of the world tell her majesty so impudent a falshood ? for zonaras , cedrenus , glycas , theophanes , constantinus manasses , although friends to the worship of images , yet all accuse irene of intolerable ambition and cruelty to her son , the emperour constantine , and to all his kindred . nay , baronius himself ( who minceth the matter as much as may be ) saith , that if she used those cruelties to her son , out of a desire of empire , as the greek historians say she did , she was worse than agrippina : but const. manasses , as zealous as any for images , makes her worse than a tigre , or lion , or bear , or dragon for her cruelty ; and he can think of no parallel for her among women but medea . and was not this an excellent confessour at least , if not a martyr in this cause ? a person fit to be commended to her majesties protection , as one that suffered only under the imputation of her zeal for images ? but if any be given up to believe lies , some must be first given up to tell them . and if this doughty historian hath any honour or conscience left , he ought to beg her majesties pardon , for offering such an affront to her . but what had queen mary deserved at his hands , that in his key to his history , he should compare her to the empress irene ? . by pretending to antiquity . this might justly be wondred at in so clear evidence to the contrary , as i have made to appear in this matter : but however , among the ignorant and superstitious multitude , the very pretending to it goes a great way . thus the patriarch germanus boasted of fathers and councils for image-worship to the emperour leo ; but what fathers , or councils did the aged patriarch mean ? why did he not name and produce them to stop the emperours proceedings against images ? baronius confesseth , there were no councils which had approved the worship of images by any canon ; but because they never condemned it , being constantly practised , it was sufficient . all the mischief is , this constant practice is as far from being proved , as the definition of councils . if the picture christ sent to abgarus king of edessa , or those drawn by s. luke , or the forged canon of the council of antioch ; or the counterfeit authority of s. athanasius about the image at berytus ; if such evidences as these will do the business ; they have abundance of autiquity on their side : but if we be not satisfied with these , they will call us hereticks , or it may be , samaritan sectaries , and that is all we are to expect in this matter . . the council of nice had a trick beyond this , viz. burning , or suppressing all the writings that were against them . the popes deputies in the fifth action made the motion , which was received and consented to by the council : and they made a canon to that purpose , that all writings against images should be brought into the patriarch of constantinople , under pain of anathema if a laick , or deposition , if in orders ( and this without any limitation as to authors or time , ) and there to be disposed of among heretical books . so that it is to be wondred , so much evidence should yet be left in the monuments of antiquity against the worship of images . as to what concerns the matter of argument for the worship of images produced in this age , i must leave that to its proper place ; and proceed to the last period , as to this controversie , which is necessary for discerning the history and the state of it , viz. . when the doctrine and practice of image-worship was settled upon the principles allowed and defended in the roman church . wherein i shall do these things . . i shall shew what additions have been to this doctrine and practice since the nicene council . . wherein the present practice of image-worship in the roman church doth consist , and upon what principles it is defended . . for the additions that have been made in this matter since the nicene council . and those lie especially in two things . . in making images of god the father , and the holy trinity . . in the manner of worship given to images . . in making images of god the father and the trinity . it is easie to observe how much the most earnest pleaders for images did then abhor the making of any image of god. so gregory . in his epistle to leo saith expresly , they made no images of god , because it is impossible to paint or describe him ; but if we had seen or known him , as we have done his son , we might have painted and represented him too , as well as his son. we make no image or likeness of the invisible deity , saith the patriarch germanus , whom the highest orders of angels are not able to comprehend . if we cannot paint the soul , saith damascen , how much less can we represent god by an image , who gave that being to the soul which cannot be painted ? what image can be made of him , who is invisible , incorporeal , without quantity , magnitude , or form ? we should err indeed , saith he , if we should make an image of god who cannot be seen ; and the same he repeats in other places , who is there , in his senses , saith stephanus junior , that would go about to paint the divine nature , which is immaterial and incomprehensible ? for if we cannot represent him in our minds , how much less can we paint him in colours ? now these four , gregory , germanus , damascen , and stephanus were the most renowed champions for the defence of images ; and did certainly speak the sense of the church at that time : to the same purpose speak ioh. thessalonicensis , leontius , and others in the nicene council . the greek author of the book of the use of images according to the sense of the second council of nice ( published by morellius and fronto ducaeus ) goes farther , for he saith , that no images are to be made of god , and if any man go about it , he is to suffer death as a pagan . by which it appears that according to the sense of this council , the making any images of god was looked on as a part of heathen idolatry . but when a breach is once made , the waters do not stop just at the mark , which the first makers of the breach designed : other men thought they had as much reason to go a little farther , as they had to go thus far . thence by degrees the images of god the father , and the holy trinity came into the roman church , and the making of these images defended upon reasons which seemed to them as plausible , as those for the images of christ upon his appearing in our nature ; for so god the father might be represented not in his nature , but as he is said to have appeared in the scriptures . baronius , in his marginal notes on the epistle of gregory , saith , afterwards it came into use to make images of god the father , and of the trinity ; not that they fall under our view , but as they appeared in holy writ ; for what can be described , may be painted ; to the same purpose he speaks in another place . it seems then by the confession of baronius no images of god the father were in use then , because they did not think them lawful ; when they first came into use , christianus lupus professes , that he knows not ; but , he saith , there were none such in the roman church in the time of nicolaus . but bellarmin , suarez , and others , produce an argument for the lawfulness of them , from the general practice of their church , which , they say , would not have suffered such an universal custom , if such images had been unlawful . bernardus pujol professour of divinity in perpignan , saith , not only that the images of the trinity are universally received among catholicks , but that they are allowed by the council of trent , and doth suppose the use of them as a thing certain and undoubted : and saith , that such images are to be worshipped . for , saith he , as the mind is excited by the image of christ , or the saints , so may devotion be raised by such an image of the deity . ysambertus saith , that they who give caution concerning the doing of a thing , as the council of trent doth , about the images of god , are to be understood to approve the thing it self : and he saith , the opinion about the lawfulness of such images is so certain , that to say otherwise is rashness ; and the common practice of the church for a long time hath been to have such images in churches , and they were never reproved either by the pope , or so much as a provincial synod . vasquez goes farther , saying , that the lawfulness of images of the trinity is proved by the most frequent practice of the church , which commonly at rome and other places , doth set forth the image of the trinity to be worshipped by the people . arriaga saith , that it is so certain that these images are lawful , that to say the contrary is not only rashness , but a plain errour ; for god cannot be supposed to suffer his universal church to err in a matter of such moment . tannerus asserts , that it is not only lawful to make images of god and the trinity ; but to propose them as objects of worship ; which , he saith , is the common opinion of their divines , and he proves it , as the rest do , from the practice of their church and the council of trent . neither are such images , saith cajetan , only for shew , as the cherubims were in the temple ; but they are set up that they may be worshipped , as the practice of the church shews . in the processionale of sarum , i find a rubrick for the incensing the image of the holy trinity : which clearly manifests the practice of worshipping the image of the trinity . now in this matter , i say , there is a plain innovation since the second nicene council , which thought such images utterly unlawful , as petavius proves , from the testimonies before mentioned . but t. g. saith , that germanus and damascen , and consequently the rest , only spake against such images , as are supposed to represent the divinity in it self ; with whom they fully agree in this matter , and think all such images of the divinity unlawful . to which i answer , ( . ) this is plainly contrary to their meaning ; for they shew that it was unlawful to make any image of god till the incarnation of christ , as might be at large proved from all their testimonies . now this assertion would signifie nothing , if they thought it lawful to make any image of god from the manner of his appearances . for then it was as lawful to make images of god before as after the incarnation of christ. and one of the arguments of damascen and the rest for the images of christ , although he were god , was to shew the reality of his humane nature , against those who said he took only the appearance of it . but if an appearance of god were sufficient ground for an image , then this argument did prove nothing at all . and yet the council of nice laies so great weight upon it , as to conclude those who reject images to deny the reality of christs humane nature . they went therefore upon this principle , that no meer appearance is a sufficient ground for the image of a person ; for in case it be a meer appearance , the representation that is made , is only of the appearance it self , and not of the person who never assumed that likeness , which he appeared in , to any personal union ; but , say they , when the humane nature was personally united to the god head , then it was lawful to make a representation of that person by an image of his humane nature . how far this will hold , at to an object of divine worship , must be discussed afterwards , but from hence it appears , that they did not speak only against such images which represent the divinity in it self , but against such as were made of any appearance of him . and it is observable that the ancient schoolmen , such as alexander hales , aquinas , bonaventure and marsilius , do all agree that any representation of god was forbidden before the incarnation of christ ; from whence it follows , that they could not think any representation of god from his appearances to have been lawful under the law. and there can be no reason given , why the representation of god from an appearance should have been more unlawful then , than under the gospel . ( . ) this would only hold then against anthropomorphites , or those who supposed the divinity to be really like their images ; of which sort i have shewn how very few there were among the heathens themselves ; and if this had been their meaning , they should not have made all images of god unlawful , but have given them cautions not to think the divinity to be like them . but whatever the conceptions of men were , they declare in general , all images of god to be unlawful ; which the church of rome is so far from doing , that the council of trent allows some kind of representations of god from his appearances ; and the constant practice of that church shews , that they picture god the father as an old man , not only in their books , but in places of worship , and with a design to worship him under that representation ; which was a thing the great patrons of images in the time of the second council of nice professed to abhor . ( . ) those images of god which are allowed in the roman church are confessed by their own authors to be apt to induce men to think god to be like to them . ioh. hesselius , a divine of great reputation in the council of trent , confesses , that from the images of god in humane shape men may easily fall into the errour of the anthropomorphites ; especially the more ignorant , for whose sake especially those images are made . it being not so easie for them to understand metaphorical and analogical representations ; but it being very natural , for them to judge of things according to the most common and sensible representations of them . and if they were all anthropomorphites in the roman church , i wonder what other representation they could make of god the father , than that which is used , and allowed , and worshipped among them . if there be then so much danger in that opinion as t. g. intimates , how can that church possibly be excused , that gives such occasions to the people to fall into it ? he that goes about to express the invisible nature of god by an artificial image , sins grievously and makes an idol , saith sanders ; but how is it possible for a man to express the invisible nature of god by an image , otherwise than it is done in the church of rome ? how did the heathens do it otherwise according to t. g. than by making the image of god in the likeness of man ? but , t. g. saith , men may conceive the deity otherwise than it is , and so go about to make an image to represent it , which is folly and madness ; and so it is to make such an answer : for then all the folly and madness in making the grossest images of god doth not lye in the images themselves , but in the imagination of the persons that make them . is it not as great in those that worship them with such an imagination ? if it be , then whatever the design of the makers was , if they be apt to beget such imaginations in those who see and worship them , they are in that respect as unlawful , as t. g. supposes any images of god among the heathens to have been . ( . ) what doth t. g. mean , when he makes those images unlawful which represent the divinity in it self , and not those which represent god as he appeared ? can the meer essence of any thing be represented by an image ? is it possible to represent any being otherwise than as it appears ? but it may be t. g. hath found out the way of painting essences ; ( if he hath , he deserves to have the patent for it , not only for himself , but for his heirs and executors . ) for he allows it to be the peculiar priviledge of an infinite being that it cannot be represented as it is in it self ; then all other things may be represented as they are in themselves , in opposition to the manner of their appearance ; or else the distinction signifies nothing . petrus thyraeus a man highly commended by possevin for for his explication of this matter , saith , the meaning is , that an image doth not represent the nature but the person that is visible ; for , saith he , when we see the image of a man , we do not say we see a reasonable creature , but a man. very well ! and so in the image of the deity we do not see the divine nature , but the divine person , or in such a way as he became visible . the invisible nature of god cannot be represented in an image ; ( and can the invisible nature of man ? ) therefore , saith he , it is no injury to god to be painted by an image : no more upon these principles than to a man. bellarmin proves the lawfulness of making images of god , because man is said to be the image of god ; and he may be painted , therefore the image of god may be too ; for that which is the image of the image is likewise the image of the exemplar , those which agree in a third agreeing among themselves . to this some answer'd that man was not the image of god as to his body , but as to his soul which could not be painted ; but bellarmin takes off this answer , by saying , that then a man could not not be painted , for he is not a man in regard of his outward lineaments ; but in regard of his substance , and especially his soul ; but notwithstanding the soul cannot be painted , yet a man may truly and properly be said to be painted , because the figure and colours of an image do represent the whole man ; otherwise , saith he , a thing painted could never seem to be the true thing , as zeuxis his grapes did which deceived the birds . therefore according to bellarmines reasoning , that which represents a being according to outward appearance , although it have an invisible nature ; yet is a true and real representation , and represents it as it is in it self ; and as far as it is possible for an image to represent any thing . wherein then lyes the difference between making the picture of a man , and the image of god ? if it be said , that the image of god is very short , imperfect , and obscure ; is not the same thing to be said of the picture of a man , which can only represent his outward features without any description of his inward substance or soul ? if it be farther said , that there is a real resemblance between a picture of a man , and his outward lineaments , but there is none , between god and the image of a man ; then i ask , what bellarmins argument doth signifie towards the proving the lawfulness of making an image of god ? for if god may be painted because man may , who is the image of god ; ( for the image of the image is the image of the exemplar ; ) then it follows that man is the image of god , as he may be painted , and so god and man must agree in that common thing which is a capacity of being represented , which cannot be supposed without as real a resemblance between god and his image , as between a man and his picture . but t. g. tells us , that they abhorr the very thoughts of making any such likeness of god , and all that the council of trent allows is only making representations of some apparition or action of god in a way proportionable to our humane conception . i answer , ( . ) it is no great sign of their abhorring the thoughts of any such likeness of god , to see such arguments made use of to prove the lawfulness of making images of god which do imply it . ( . ) those images of god which are the most used and allowed in the roman church , have been thought by wise men of their own church to imply such a likeness . molanus and thyraeus mention four sorts of images of the trinity , that have been used in the roman church . . that of an old man for god the father , and of christ in humane nature , and of the holy ghost in the form of a dove . . that of three persons of equal age and stature . . that of an image of the bl. virgin in the belly of which was represented the holy trinity : this ioh. gerson saith , he saw in the carmelites church ; and saith , there were others like it ; and molanus saith , he had seen such a one himself among the carthusians . . that of one head with three faces , or one body and three heads ; which molanus saith , is much more common than the other ; and is wont to be set before the office of the holy trinity ; these two latter those authors do not allow ; because the former of them tends to a dangerous errour , viz. that the whole trinity was incarnate of the b. virgin , and the latter , molanus saith , was an invention of the devil , ( it seems then , there was one invention of the devil at least to be seen in the masse-book ; ) for , saith he , the devil once appeared with three heads to a monk , telling him he was the trinity . but the two former , they allow and defend ; waldensis , saith molanus , with a great deal of learning defends that of the three persons from the appearance of the three to abraham ; and thyraeus justifieth the first , and the most common from the authority of the church , the consent of fathers , and the h. scriptures . and yet pope iohn . as aventinus relates it , condemned some to the fire as anthropomorphites and enemies to religion , for making the very same representation of the trinity , which he defends , being only of god as an old man , and of the son as a young man , and of the holy ghost under the picture of a dove . ysambertus takes notice of this story ; but , he saith , they were such images as were according to the mind of the anthropomorphites ; whereas aventinus saith expresly , they were no other than such as are used and allowed in the roman church ; by which ysambertus saith , there is no more danger of mens being led into a false opinion of god , than there is by the expressions of scripture . and upon this ground the danger doth not lye in making any representations of god , but in entertaining a false opinion of those representations ; and the scripture instead of forbidding men to make any similitude of god , should only have forbidden men to entertain any erroneous conceit of any image of him . but , if the church take care to prevent such an opinion , as he saith she doth , the other image with three faces and one head , or one body and three heads might be justified on the same reason that the other is . whereas the roman catechism saith , that moses did therefore wisely say , that they saw no similitude of god , lest they should be led aside by errour , and make an image of the divinity , and give the honour due to god to a creature . from whence it follows , that all images that tend to such an errour are forbidden , and all worship given to such images is idolatry . and it is farther observable , that the image allowed in the roman church for god the father is just such a one as s. augustin saith , it is wickedness for christians to make for god and to place in a temple , and i would desire of t. g. to tell me , what other image of god the greatest anthropomorphites would make , than that which is most common among them ? and if there be such danger in mens conceptions of a deity from any images of god , they give as much occasion for it , as ever any people did : so much , that all men of any ingenuity have cryed shame upon them ; but to very little purpose . abulensis , durandus and peresius are cited by bellarmin himself as condemning any images of god : and which is observable , they do not condemn such images as represent god in himself , as t. g. speaks , but such as were in use in the roman church . durandus saith , it is a foolish thing either to make or to worship such images , viz. of the father , son , and holy ghost , after the former manner : and which is yet more , he quotes damascen against this sort of images , saying , that it was impiety and madness to make them : and so doth peresius too . thuanus mentions this passage relating to this matter , that a. d. . the queen mother of france by the advice of two bishops and these three divines , butillerius , espencaeus and picherellus declared , that all images of the trinity should be taken out of churches and other places , as forbidden by scripture , councils and fathers : and yet these were such images which t.g. pleads for ; but this soon came to nothing , as all good purposes of reformation among them have ever done . if it be said , as it is by ysambertus , that these are not properly images of god , but of his appearance in a visible form ; i answer , ( . ) this doth not mend the matter , for we are speaking of an image of the father as a person in the trinity ; and whatever represents him as such must represent him as he is in himself , and not barely in regard of a temporary appearance ; and as to such an image of god the father , t. g's distinction will by no means reach . ( . ) it is the common opinion of the divines in the roman church , that all the appearances of god in the old testament were not of god himself , but of angels in his stead . and clichtovaeus gives that as a reason why all representations of god were unlawful in the old testament ; because all appearances were by angels , and those angels were no more united to the forms they assumed , than a mans body is to his garments : from whence it must follow that all representations of god by such appearances is still unlawful . ( . ) suppose this be a representation only of some appearance of god , and so not of what god is , but of what he did , i ask then on what account such an effect of divine power is made the object of divine adoration ? for we have seen already by the confession of their most eminent divines , that the images of the trinity are proposed among them as objects of adoration ; now say i , how comes a meer creature , such as that apparition was , to become the object of divine worship ? durandus well saw the consequence of this assertion ; for when he had said , that those corporeal forms which are painted are no representations of the divine person which never assumed them , but only of those very forms themselves in which he appeared ; therefore , saith he , no more reverence is due to them than is due to the forms themselves . when god appeared in the burning bush , that fire was then an effect of divine power , and deserved no worship of it self ; how then can the image of the burning bush , be an object of divine worship ? if god did appear to daniel as the ancient of dayes , it must be either by the impression of such an idea upon his imagination , or by assuming the form of an old man ; but either way this was but a meer creature , and had no such personal union to the godhead to deserve adoration ; how much less then doth the image of this appearance deserve it ? so that i cannot see how upon their own principles they can be excused from idolatry , who give proper divine worship to such images as these . he commits idolatry , saith sanders , that proposes any image to be worshipped as the true image of the divine nature : if this be idolatry , what is it then to give the highest sort of worship to the meer representation of a creature ? for those images , which only set forth such appearances , are but the creatures of creatures , and so still farther off from being the object of adoration . so that notwithstanding all t. g's evasions and distinctions , we find that as to this matter of the images of god and the trinity , the church of rome is not only gone off from scripture , reason , and antiquity , but from the doctrine and practice of the second council of nice too . . i now come to the additions that have been made to the council of nice by the church of rome as to the manner of worship given to images . for which i must consider , . what that worship was , which the council of nice did give to images ? . what additions have been made to it since that time ? . what that worship was which the council of nice did give to images ? which will appear by these two things . . that it defined true and real worship to be given to images . . that it was an inferiour worship , and not latria . . that it defined true and real worship to be given to images ; i. e. that images were not only to be signs and helps to memory , to call to mind or represent to us the object of worship ; but that the acts of worship were to be performed to the images themselves . the former use of images doth suppose them to be only of the nature of books , which represent things to our minds without any act of adoration performed to that which is only an instrument of intellection ; although the thing represented to the mind be a proper object of adoration . as , if by reading a book an idea of god is represented to my mind whom i ought to worship , yet no man can imagine that from hence i should fall down upon my knees out of honour to the book , or with a design to worship it . when a man reads his prayers out of a book , and makes use of that only as a means or instrument to help his understanding , and direct his expressions ; no man can have any colour of reason to say that he worships the book , which he uses for a quite different purpose . it is the same case as to images , when they are used for no other end but barely to represent to the mind an object of worship ; as a crucifix may do our saviour ; then it is no more than an external note or character , and hath the same use that words have . but those who go no farther than thus , stand condemned and anathematized by the second council of nice . for that not only determines with a great deal of assurance that images are to be set up in churches and houses , and wayes , in order to the worship of them ; but very freely anathematizes all sorts of dissenters either in judgement or practice . anathema be to all those who do not salute the holy and venerable images : anathema to all hereticks : anathema to those that follow the council against images . anathema to them that do not salute the images of christ and his saints . epiphanius in the sixth session declares this to be the sense of the council ; those who say that images are to be had only for memory and not for worship or salutation , are half-wicked , and partly true and partly false , they are so far right as they are for images , but they are in the wrong as they are against the worship of them . o the folly of these men ! saith epiphanius . but this is not all , for as it was not sufficient to have images for helps to memory , so neither was it to give them some kind of honour or reverence ; nothing but worship would satisfie them . so the patriarch tarasius , saith in plain terms , they who pretend to honour images , and not to worship them , are guilty of hypocrisie , and self-contradiction . for worship , saith he , is a symbol and signification of honour , therefore they who deny to worship them , do dishonour them . this was the patriarchal way of arguing in this famous council . and this he proves from the saying of anastasius bishop of theopolis , let no man be offended with the name of adoration or worship , for we worship men and angels , but do not serve them , and worship is an expression of honour . and it would do one good at heart , to see how all the reverend fathers clap their hands for joy at the subtle criticism which it seems that bishop had discovered , viz. that when our saviour said , thou shalt worship the lord thy god and him only shalt thou serve , that only was not applyed to worship but to service . mark that , cryes the council , only belongs to service , and not to worship , therefore although we may not serve images , yet we may worship them . if the devil had been so subtle , might not he have said to our saviour , mark that , you are forbidden only to serve any else but god , but you may worship me , notwithstanding that command ? the patriarch tarasius in his epistle to constantine and irene expresses this worship by the very same word which is used to god ; for , when god saith , thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve ; he restrains service to himself , but allows worship to other things ; therefore , saith he , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , without the least doubt or dispute it is a thing acceptable and well pleasing to god , for us to worship and salute the images of christ and the b. virgin , and of the holy angels and saints . if any man think otherwise , and have any doubt in his mind , or any wavering , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , about the worship of the venerable images , the holy and oecumenical synod hath anathematized him ; and what is an anathema but a separation from god ? and thus it becomes no less than damnation to doubt of the worship of images . o blessed change ! from what it was in the primitive times , when it was damnation to worship them . this worship he expresses in the same epistle by kissing , by bowing , by prostration ; all which he shews from the signification of the word , and the use of it in scripture . and in the definition of the council , among the acts of worship , are reckoned the oblation of incense and lights , because the honour of the image passes to the thing represented by it . so that all external acts of adoration were by the definition of this council to be performed to images ; and the same have been practised by the approbation of the roman church ; wherein this council of nice is received as a general council , and appealed to by the council of trent , supposing the decrees of that council to be still in force . in the constitutions of thomas arundel archbishop of canterbury made in the convocation of the bishops and clergy begun at s. pauls , ian. a. d. . we have a particular enumeration of the several acts of worship which were required to be performed to images ; and the places and reliques of the saints , viz. processions , genuflections , bowing of the body , thurifications , deosculations , oblations , burnings of lights , and pilgrimages , and all other forms and modes of worship which have been practised in the times of our predecessours or in our own ; and this not only the people were required to practise , but the clergy to teach and preach up the worship of the cross and other images with these acts of adoration . and this constitution is extant in lyndwood as part of the canon law then in force ; who in his notes upon it , observes , that offering incense was a sacrifice , as it was burnt upon the altar , and a part of latria , and therefore he saith , the same incense was not used to the clergy and people with that burnt upon the altar , but of another sort which was not consecrated . in the records of the tower is extant the form of renunciation imposed on the lollards , wherein are these words concerning the worship of images , i do swear to god and to all his seynts upon this holy gospell , that fro this day forward i shall worship images , with praying and offering unto them in the worschop of the seynts that they be made after . and yet after all this plain evidence , some have had the confidence to tell us , that they hardly worship images in the roman church , but praying to them they abhorr and detest . what conscientious men were those then who made the poor lollards swear to do that , which they forbid them to do ? but surely the bishops and clergy then understood the doctrine and practice of the roman church as well as t. g. and his brethren do at this day ; and having authority in their hands were not so cautious and reserved in this matter , as some think it for their interest to be at present . and it is observable , that those learned men in the roman church who have been most nice and scrupulous in this matter of the worship of images , have yet agreed with the rest in the practice of the outward acts of worship towards them . so vasquez observes concerning durandus , holcot , and picus mirandula , who speak the most suspiciously among them about the worship of images , that they agreed with the catholick church in performing all external acts of adoration to images , and that they differed only in the manner of speaking from the rest : and that the main thing the council of nice determined was the real acts of worship to be performed to images , leaving the several ways of explaining the manner of giving them , and the names of this worship at greater liberty . the same , card. lugo saith , that these men differed from hereticks , because these utterly refuse giving external acts of adoration to images , which they allowed . suarez confesses that some of the hereticks condemned by the council of nice did maintain the use of images for memory , which , he saith , appears by the acts of the council ; and that all catholicks agree in this proposition , imagines esse adorandas , that imagines are to be worshipped , although some , he saith , do so explain that worship as to differ little or nothing from hereticks . so durandus , saith he , openly teacheth that images are not to be worshipped , but only impropriè & abusivè , improperly and abusively , because at their presence we call to mind those objects represented by them , which are worshipped before the images , as if they were present , and on this account the images are said to be worshipped . it will contribute much to the understanding the state of this controversie , to shew a little more particularly , what the opinion of these men was , and how it is condemned by the rest as savouring of heresie , and repugnant to the council of nice , and the sense of the catholick church . durandus goes upon these grounds , . that worship properly belongs to him in whom the cause of that worship is , and by accident may be given to that which hath only a relation to that which is the cause . . in him to whom proper worship is given we are to consider both the person to whom it is given , and the cause for which ; worship is only properly given to the person , and not to any part of him ; the cause is that from whence the excellency of the person arises . . that supreme worship or latria is due only to god for it self , by reason of his deity , because the cause of this honour is only in god ; but by accident the honour of latria may belong to other things ; now , saith he , a thing may have relation to god two waies , . when it goes to make up the same person , as the humanity of christ. . when it hath only an extrinsecal relation to him , as christs mother , or his image . . that the humane nature of christ hath only by accident the honour of latria given to it , as being part of that person who is worshipped , who is the son of god ; but the humanity it self is not properly that which is worshipped , nor is the cause or reason of that worship , but only of an inferiour . . of those things which have only an extrinsecal relation to god , this is to be held in general ; that either they deserve no worship at all of themselves , as the cross , and images , or other inanimate things : or if they do , as the b. virgin , it is an inferiour worship ; of the first he determines that no manner of worship doth belong to them , no not to the cross it self , upon the account of any excellency , or contact of christ , for which he gives this reason , that which is no subject capable of holiness or vertue , cannot in it self be the term of adoration , but the cross on which christ did hang , was not a subject capable of holiness , &c. nunquam ergo cruci christi debetur aliquis honor nisi in quantum reducit in rememorationem christi ; no kind of honour is due to the cross , but as it calls christ to our remembrance . . that although the conception of the mind be of the thing represented upon sight of an image ; there is still a real difference in the thing , and in the conception , between the image and the thing represented ; and therefore properly speaking the same worship is never due to the image that is to the object represented by it . but , saith he , because we must speak as the most do , the image may be said to be worshipped with the same worship with the thing represented , because at the presence of the image we worship the object represented by it as if he were actually present . holkot in his lectures on the book of wisdom , saith , that in a large sense we may be said to worship the image , because by the image we call christ to mind , and worship him before the image : and therefore , saith he , i think it fitter to say , that i do not worship the image of christ , because it is wood , nor because it is the image of christ , but that i worship christ before his image : but he by no means alloweth , that latria in any sense be given to an image of christ. . because latria is the worship due only to god , but no image is god : and therefore it is a contradiction to say , that latria is due only to god , and yet that it is due to the image of christ , and to christ. . then the same worship would be due to christ and to a stone , or to christ and to a creature . . he that gives to any thing the worship of latria , confesseth that to be god ; therefore a man may as lawfully say the image is god , as that it may be worshipped with latria ; and consequently that something which is not god is god. ioh. picus mirandula gave this for one of his conclusions , that neither the cross , nor any other image is to be worshipped with latria after the way of thomas : this conclusion was condemned , and he forced to write an apology for it : where he saith , that the way of thomas is dangerous , for the image as an image is distinct from the thing represented , therefore if as such it terminates the worship of latria , it seems to follow that something which is not god is worshipped with latria : and he declares , that he agrees with durandus and holcot : but withal , he saith , that this conclusion of his was condemned as scandalous , and against the custom of the universal church . yet , he concludes his apology , with saying , that if he had universally condemned the worship of images , his proposition had been heretical . from whence it appears , that these persons who did agree in the practice , yet because they said the images were to be worshipped only improperly and abusively , were not thought to believe , or do what the church required . therefore suarez saith , ( . ) that it is defide , or an article of faith , imagines esse adorandas , that images are to be worshipped , and that to be owned not in any limited and improper sense , but absolutely and simply ; which article , he saith , is founded in the tradition and definitions of the church , and he proves it by the constant practice of the church . ( . ) that images are to be worshipped not abusively and improperly , but verè & propriè , truly and properly , and that the contrary opinion of durandus is dangerous , rash , and savouring of heresie . so , he saith , medina determines it , who reports that victoria said it was heretical ; and this conclusion , he saith , is commonly received among the modern divines ; and he proves it from the definitions of councils ; especially the second council of nice , which hath defined it under an anathema . but , he adds , if images were only to be worshipped abusively and improperly , the worship of them was rather simply to be denied than affirmed ; for an improper and abusive worship is no worship at all ; and they were not to be condemned for hereticks , who allow the use of images for memory , and only deny their worship . to which he subjoyns this reason , either the image truly and in it self , is at least the material object of worship , total , or partial , or it is not ; if it be , the thing is granted ; if not , then in plain terms , the image is not worshipped . for it is neither the formal nor the material object of worship ; but only the occasion or sign exciting men to worship the thing represented . and according to this opinion , the hereticks would speak more properly than the catholicks . for he that at the sight of a beautiful creature is excited to praise or love the creator , cannot be said to praise or love the creature , although the presence of the creature did raise that devotion . therefore , saith he , the nicene council did condemn this opinion , when it condemned those who said that images did only serve for memory , which in truth is all the use that opinion allows them ; and when the nicene council declares the worship given to images not to be latria ; for if no more worship be allowed , but only worshipping the object in presence of the image , then the most perfect latria may be given to christ before the image ; and consequently the worship in that abusive and improper sense may be latria , which the council denies : and farther the same council saith , that not only the exemplar may be worshipped in the image , but that the image is to be worshipped for the sake of the exemplar , by which it determines the image to be the object of worship , although the reason of it be the thing represented . ( . ) suarez . saith , that not only the external acts of adoration are to be performed towards images , but the very intention of worship to be directed towards them : for even durandus himself did allow the external acts to be done towards them , and because the inward intention he said was directed to the exemplar , therefore he said the images were only said abusively to be worshipped . for which assertion suarez gives these reasons , ( . ) the external act without the intention of the mind is no proper worship , but only counterfeit . and leontius , quoted in the council of nice , saith , in all worship the inward intention is required . ( . ) from many passages in that council , implying that the intention of worship ought to be about the images , because they are said to deserve worship , and from the sayings of epiphanius , basilius , adrianus , tarasius there extant , and elias cretensis , who saith he did perfectly worship them , which could not be without the inward intention . and from the council of trent , which calls it due honour and worship ; but it cannot be any true honour without the inward intention . ( . ) to perform the external acts of worship before an image , is either to worship it , or not : if it be , then the inward intention is granted ; but since there may be a distinction between the intention of worship , and the intention of performing the external acts of worship ; in order to worship it is not only necessary to perform the material acts , but to do them with the intention of giving worship by them . neither is it enough to say , that there is an inward intention , but the outward acts are towards the image , and the inward intention to the exemplar , for , saith suarez , as true worship doth essentially require the intention of worship , so the worship of this or that particular thing doth require a proportionable intention towards that thing : and the worship of one thing cannot be said to be the worship of another thing distinct from it , unless it be some way participated by it ; but the image is a distinct thing from the exemplar , therefore the worship of the exemplar cannot be said to be the worship of the image , unless the image do partake of the worship , and consequently there must be an intention of giving worship to the image . this , saith he , may be illustrated by an example ; if a man kiss the ground out of a meer intention of giving worship to god thereby , he cannot truly and properly be said to worship the ground about which the material action is conversant , but only god to whom he directed his worship . and all this he confirms by more passages out of the nicene council , which , he saith , was not so regardless about the manner and names of worship as vasquez imagined , but took great care to express it self so that true and proper worship be given to images ; which it defines under an anathema ; and although it useth other words , of salutation , honour , &c. yet it makes these aequivalent to that real worship which it doth expresly require . ambros . catharinus saith , that the opinion of those who say images are not truly and properly to be worshipped , but god to be worshipped before an image , differs very little from those who deny any worship of images , and is repugnant to the practice of the church , because we direct our gestures , our words and signs of adoration to the images , to which likewise we burn incense : and we worship the cross , saying , o crux ave , spes unica , &c. and he proves at large by the second council of nice , that true and real worship was required to be given to images ; and concludes that images are not meerly for instruction , or memory , or exciting devotion , but that they are set up properly for worship . therefore if any man asks another , súntne adorandae imagines ? intrepidè respondeat , adorandae . are images to be worshipped ? let him answer without fear , they are . because , saith he , images being set apart by the inspiration of the holy ghost for such a sacred use , do obtain such a degree of sanctification , that whoever violates them is guilty of sacriledge and treason against the divine majesty . for , saith he , god himself is most truly believed to be present in them after a particular manner , and he shews his power and presence by them , using them often for oracles ; that after this manner our saviours saying is fulfilled , i am with you to the end of the world. and for the sake of this peculiar presence of god which we sensibly perceive ( and if i should deny that i had done it my self i should be a lyar and ungrateful ) images do deserve a peculiar adoration , but short of latria , because they are sanctified for such spiritual offices . naclantus another italian bishop , and an eminent divine in the council of trent as well as catharinus saith , that it is needless caution for any to say , that they worship before the image , sed & adorare imaginem sine quo volueris scrupulo , but they may say it roundly , and without the least scruple that they worship the image . bellarmine saith , that the images of christ and the saints are to be worshipped , not only by accident and improperly , but by themselves and properly , so that they terminate the worship , as they are considered in themselves , and not barely as they represent the exemplar : which he proves from the definition of the council of nice , and the same reasons which are mentioned from suarez before . dominicus soto another great divine of the council of trent , determines positively , that images are not intended by the church only for helps to memory ; for we do not worship the scriptures or names of saints , which call them to our minds ; but as to images we ought to think otherwise , for they do not only raise our minds to worship those who are represented by them , sed easdem ipsas debemus adorare , we ought to worship the images themselves ; for , saith he , the church doth not say , we worship thee , o christ , but thy cross , and o crux ave , spes unica , &c. whose words are repeated and approved by ferd. velosillus . bernardus pujol laies down this assertion , the image truly and properly is the matter of adoration , and the worship truly and properly is terminated upon it : which , he saith , is plain from the seventh council and from several others , and those are anathematized who deny it . and the definitions of councils being absolutely put , are properly to be understood : therefore the worship is truly and properly to be terminated on the image : and not only the external but the internal worship is , he saith , to be terminated on the image , which he proves likewise from the second nicene council , wherein it is not only required that men do the outward acts of worship , but that they do them with love and affection . and when , saith he , the council of trent mentions the external acts , it implies that the internal worship is terminated upon the images ; for the external acts have not the nature of worship , but as they are signs of internal worship . and to say that the worship is terminated improperly and abusively on the image , is to make the councils to speak improperly and abusively ; and those who say that images are improperly worshipped , do not only err in the manner of speaking , but in the thing it self . tannerus saith , absque haesitatione satendum , imagines non solum venerandas & colendas , sed etiam adorandas esse ; that we should say it without hesitation , that images are not barely to be honoured or reverenced , but to be adored ; which he likewise proves from several passages of the nicene synod . ysambertus delivers his sense in these particulars , . that the worship of the thing represented before the image , is not properly worship of the image , nor agreeable to the definitions of councils . for that , saith he , is only properly worshipped , which terminates the worship , and the councils define such a worship of images ; which is terminated upon the images ; which he proves from the council of trent as well as nice , because it requires such acts of worship , which are terminated on the images . . adoration may be directed to the image , as to the thing which terminates it ; and to the exemplar as the reason of it ; for which , besides the reasons given by others , he gives this , viz. when there are two things good and lawful , and there is no positive precept to do them together , then it is lawful to do one without the other : but in the act of worshipping the image with the exemplar , there are two good acts , viz. the worship of the image , and of the exemplar , and there is no precept of the church to joyn those together , therefore it is lawful to do one without the other . eligius bassaeus desires it may be observed , that in the worship of the image , not only the object is worshipped , which is represented by it , but also the image it self , seeing that is properly worshipped , which is the term of adoration , or the matter to which it is directed . this is the catholick verity , saith sylvius , that images are truly and properly to be worshipped , so that the honour is given not only to the exemplar , but for the sake of that to the image , and this is defined , he saith , by the second council of nice . arriaga laies down this as a certain principle among catholicks , that images are to be truly worshipped , which all the definitions of councils do clearly manifest , which being in a dogmatical point , and against hereticks cannot without danger of errour be explained in an abusive and improper sense : and he adds afterwards , that the opinion of durandus seems manifestly condemned by all those definitions of councils which require true worship to be given to images : and he produces several passages of the seventh synod to that purpose . and it signifies nothing to their excuse , that they perform the outward signs of worship to images ; for , saith he , since they allow no proper worship to them , the images do only serve to excite the memory ; which he thus farther confirms . it is not credible that any hereticks ( supposing the object represented to deserve worship ) should imagine it lawful to worship that object without an image , and unlawful to do it when the memory of that object is excited upon the view of an image , upon supposition that no worship is intended to be given to the image thereby . and it is not credible , that if this had been all the councils had determined , that they should never think of such an easie way of satisfying dissenters , as the declaring this to have been their sense would have been . but the controversie lay in another point , viz. that images did not deserve any immediate worship , so as to have any honour done to them , although considered only as the material objects . for , saith he , if all the dispute had been only about a condition exciting men to adoration , it could not have come into mens heads to have said , that because images were dead and inanimate things , they could not be a meer physical condition of adoration ; which is all that durandus allows them . is any man so sensless to say , that because words are inanimate things , therefore they ought not to be excited to the worship of god at the hearing of them ? and the case is the same of the representation made by the eye or by the ear . but when they denyed the lawfulness of the worship of them , they spake of true and real worship which is immediately carried to the images themselves , and for this they made use of an argument which hath an appearance of truth , viz. that images being dead things have no excellency to deserve any real worship from us . from whence it follows , that when the fathers condemned these hereticks ; they did not determine that they might be used as a condition of worship ; but that true and real worship was to be given to them . cardinal lugo saith , that to the worship of images , it is not only necessary that the external act be performed to the image , of kissing , or bowing , &c. but there must be an inward affection too which implyes submission . for , saith he , worship as all agree , is an expression of submission to the thing worshipped ; and it would be ridiculous to say that peter is worshipped by that token of submission which i shew to paul ; therefore to the worship of the image , the outward act must express the inward submission of the mind to it , or else we must deny the common definition of adoration , and make a new one . and this he afterwards proves to have been the definition of the second council of nice , who did decree that true and real worship is to be given to images as they are distinct from the exemplar according to every thing that is required to the nature of worship . thus i have fully proved from the acts of the council , and the judgement of so many of the most learned and eminent divines of the roman church , that by the decree of the nicene council , such true and real worship is to be given to images as is terminated upon the images themselves . . we are now to equire what kind of worship that was , which the second council of nice did give to images : which will appear by shewing these two things . . that the worship required was higher than meer reverence . . that it was lower than latria . ( . ) that it was higher than meer reverence . t. g. would insinuate , that all the worship required by the nicene council , was no more than the reverence shewed to the books of the holy gospels , or the sacred utensils of the altar ; for which he quotes the definition of the council , wherein those things are joyned together . and so they are in hadrians epistle extant in the council , in the latin translation ( for the greek hath another sense ) and in damascens oration ; but to clear yet farther the state of the question , i shall shew , . the difference between the reverence of these things , and the worship of images . . that the council of nice did put a difference between them . . for the difference between the reverence of these things , and the worship of images . although no irrational or inanimate being be capable of that real excellency to deserve any honour from us for its own sake , as aquinas determines ; yet such things may have a relation to matters of so high a nature as to deserve a different usage and regard from other things ; as the vessels of the church , or the chalices are not to be used for common drinking ; which peculiarity of the use of such things is that degree of honour which belongs to them on the account of their being dedicated to sacred purposes . so s. augustin saith , of the sacred vessels , that they are consecrated and do become holy by their use , being separated from common service and devoted to the ministry of holy things ; but he doth plainly distinguish the respect shewn to them from the worship of images ; for a little before he speaks of such who did worship or pray looking upon an image , and that those who did so did behave themselves as if they expected to be heard by the image ; but do we pray to the sacred utensils because we make use of them in our prayers to god ? little did s. austin think , that praying looking upon images and the reverence shewed to sacred vessels on the account of their use , should have been ranked together . he that prays looking upon an image , doth either direct his adoration to the image , or to the person represented by the image as if he were actually present , and this is the true reason of the worship of images ; but no man can pretend this as to the reverence of holy things , because all their holiness consists in a bare extrinsecal denomination , which affords no reason for any more than such an esteem as belongs to sacred things , and not for any act of worship to be done to them . they who make the images themselves to be the material object or term of adoration , do yet say that the formal reason of that worship is to be taken from the object represented : others say , that the thing represented , and the image are worshipped with the same act of adoration ; but both sorts do make the representation in an image to be the ground and reason of the worship given to it . why then should those things , which do not represent be worshipped as those that do ? are not images appointed by the definition of the nicene council to be set up in churches , and in high wayes , on purpose for worship ? are they not formed , and set forth with all advantages to allure men to the worship of them ? and after all this , is no more meant by their worship than by the reverence of holy things ; which are designed for a peculiar use , and serve for other ends than to be worshipped by us ? if images were set up in churches only for memory and instruction , and were as much appointed by god to inform us of his will , as the holy scriptures are ; there were some colour of shewing a like regard to them as to the holy bible ; but it is quite otherwise , they were never appointed for that purpose , they are uncapable of doing it , and are set up for adoration ; and yet can the same men who commanded their worship , have any pretence for making the reverence to the bible and the worship of images to be alike ? besides all this , is there no difference between a religious respect ( if i may so call it ) to sacred places and things , and all the most solemn acts of adoration which were ever given to images by the greatest idolaters ? such as kneelings before them , prostrations , praying with their eyes fixed upon them , as though they were speaking to them ; burning incense and lights before them : which are as great testimonies of worship as were ever used by the grossest and most sottish idolaters . i may rather say , there is no great difference between them and their images , that can see no difference between such worship and the reverence of holy things . . that the council of nice did put a difference between these things . for however , to blind the business as much as might be , they put them together in the definition , yet if we observe the ground on which it established the worship of images , was such as referred to the things represented by them , and not any sacred use of them : and those expressed in the very same definition . for , say they , they honour of the image passes to the prototype , and he that worships the image doth in that worship the thing represented . by which they lay the foundation of the worship of images upon a thing peculiar to them , and that doth not hold for the other things . and this reason here assigned runs through all the several discourses in that synod , of hadrian , theodorus , tarasius , germanus , leontius and epiphanius ; and the very same reason is assigned by the council of trent . it is observed out of s. augustin , that the most sacred things are only capable of honour , honorem tanquam religiosa possunt habere , where he speaks of the elements of the eucharist , but tarasius in this council of nice pronounces them all guilty of hypocrisie , who would only give honour and not worship to images : by which it appears that the council determined more than meer reverence to be given to images . . that this worship which the council of nice determined was lower than latria , for so it follows in the definition of the council , that they only meant an honorary adoration and not true latria , which is only due to god. tarasius upon reading pope hadrians epistle declares his consent to the worship of images asserted in it , reserving latria , and faith to god alone . to the same purpose speaks constantinus bishop of constantia in cyprus upon reading the epistle of theodorus ; whose words i grant were mistaken by the translatour of the council into latin , as appears by what he is charged with in the caroline book , and his words in the acts of the council ; but it doth not therefore follow , as t. g. would have it , that the council of francford did mistake the meaning of the nicene synod . for the author of the caroline book particularly observes , that in those words ( as translated ) he did contradict the sayings of the rest , but that unawares he had betrayed that , which the rest endeavoured to conceal , viz. that they gave the worship proper to god to images : for however they denyed it in words , they did it in their actions . so epiphanius the deacon saith , that they often declared that they did not give latria to images . thus we see what the sense of the second council of nice was as to the worship of images . . i now come to the additions which have been made to this doctrine , in the roman church ; when it was delivered as good catholick doctrine , that the worship of latria was to be given to the images of christ. so thomas aquinas determines in several places , which are collected by simon majolus ; and he goes upon these grounds . . because no irrational creature is capable of worship , but with a respect to a rational being . . because images are worshipped on the account of their representation , therefore , saith he , they are to be worshipped with the same worship with the thing represented . . because the motion of the mind towards an image , as an image , is the same with the motion towards the thing represented . . because the church in praying to the cross , speaks to it as if it were christ himself . o crux ave , spes unica . but how can this doctrine be reconciled to the definition of the council of nice , which determines expresly contrary ? estius saith , that s. thomas never saw this definition of the council ; the same is said by catharinus , and sylvius ; for saith catharinus , if he had seen it he would have endeavoured to have reconciled his opinion with the decree of the council ; which shews that he thought it inconsistent with it . from whence i argue that the council of nice was not then received in the western church , for if it had been , is it conceivable that so great a doctor of the church as aquinas , should either not have seen it , or if he had seen it , should have contradicted the definition of it . but aquinas was not the first who asserted this doctrine in the latin church , for alex. hales , who was his master , saith as much in effect , although he doth not so openly apply the term of latria to it ; yet putting this question , whether greater worship doth belong to the cross than to any man ? he determines it affirmatively ; and distinguishes between the dignity of a thing , and the dignity of an image , and an image having all its excellency from the object represented , all the worship given to it is to be referred to the prototype ; now , saith he , man having a proper excellency can deserve no more than dulia , and therefore the cross as it represents christ must have the worship of latria . and it is considerable that alex. hales , as pitts saith , writ his summ by the command of pope innocent . and in the time of alex . . it was examined by seventy divines and approved , and recommended to be taught in all universities . card. bonaventure determines it roundly , that as christ himself from his union to the divinity is worshipped with latria , so is the image of christ as it represents him ; and concludes thus , proptereà imagini christi debet cultus latriae exhiberi . rich. de media villa who lived in the same century , asserted the same doctrine . and when durandus opposed the doctrine of thomas on this ground , because the image and prototype were two distinct things , and therefore what belonged to the exemplar could not be attributed to the image , however considered as an image , and so the worship are to the exemplar could not be given to the image , yet he confesses the other was the common and received opinion ; which was defended against durandus by paludanus and capreolus . marsilius ab ingen speaks his mind freely in this matter , saying , that the cross as a sign representing the object of worship , and as a medium of it is to be adored with latria ; and for this he appeals to the practice of the church , o crux ave spes unica , auge piis justitiam , reisque dona veniam : which three things , he saith , do properly belong to god , and therefore , saith he , it is properly the worship of latria which the church doth give to the cross as a sign . iacobus almain declares , that images are to be worshipped with the same kind of worship that the things represented are : because no image is to be worshipped for any sanctity or vertue in it self , but only for the sake of the object represented , otherwise it would be idolatry . gabriel biel likewise agrees , that the images of christ which represent him are to be worshipped with latria : but he found out the distinction of a twofold latria , . proper latria , which is the worship given to christ as the object represented upon the sight of an image of him , and this is not terminated on the image , but the exemplar . . improper or analogical latria , which is the worship of the image as it represents : so that to the same external act of worship he makes two internal acts , whereof one is terminated on the image , the other on the prototype . thomas waldensis saith , that the images considered in themselves deserve no worship at all , but considered in relation to a higher being and in regard of their representation , so they deserve to be worshipped ; and if the mind passes from the image to the thing represented , then he saith , the image and the prototype are worshipped with the same act ; which must be latria as to the image of christ ; but the latria condemned by the nicene council , he would have to be the worshipping the images themselves for gods : which the heathens themselves , as appears by the acts of that synod , utterly denyed that they did in the discourse of iohn of thessalonica . we worship not , saith the heathen , the images , but through them the spiritual powers . angelus de clavasio declares , that the image of christ is to be worshipped with latria as well as himself , and that the cross whereon christ was crucified was to be worshipped with latria both on the account of representation and contact ; therefore , saith he , we speak and pray to the cross as to christ himself . the same is said by bartholomaus fumus , who was a dominican , as the other a franciscan , ( whereby we see it was no opinion peculiar to the dominican order on the account of the authority of thomas ) and by dionysius the carthusian , as well as antoninus the dominican . franciscus ferrariensis saith , that when latria is appropriated to god , it is be understood primò & per se , primarily and for its own sake ; but if it be understood only secondarily and for anothers sakes ; then , saith he , latria may be given to an image of christ ; for considering the image , as an image , it is worshipped with the same act , by which the person represented is , and therefore since latria is due to christ , it must be so to the image of christ ; and he answers all the arguments of durandus , holcot , and mirandula by the help of the former distinction ( as he might have done a hundred more ) and he asserts , that the image and the object represented make together one total object of adoration , whereof one part is the reason why the worship is terminated on the other : and that the act of adoration whereby god and the image are worshipped together , cannot be latria in respect of one , and an inferiour worship in respect of the other , because both the internal and external acts are such wherein the worship of latria doth properly consist : and to shew this to be the catholick doctrine , he proves it , from the practice of the catholick church which makes genuflections , prostrations , supplications . and other acts of latria to the cross. which was the true reason of introducing this doctrine of latria to images contrary to the definition of the nicene council , because they saw the constant practice of the church in the worship of the cross could not be justified upon other grounds . the church never owning any prosopopoeia , but expressing its devotions to the cross , as really distinct from , although representing the person of christ. card. cajetan saith , that the act of worship towards the image of christ , is truly and properly terminated on the image ; not in regard either of its matter or form , but as it performs the office of an image . so that christ himself is the reason of the worship of the image , and his being in the image , is the condition , by which the reason of worship doth excite men to worship and terminate it . but since christ is not asserted to be really and personally in the image , but only by representation , cajetan ought to have shewn , that an union by meer imagination between christ and the image , is a sufficient condition for performing those acts of worship to the image which properly belong to god alone which he hath not undertaken ; but he shews against durandus , that if the image of christ were only worshipped , as it puts us in mind of christ , then any other thing which puts us in mind of him might be worshipped as well as an image . and the practice of the church shews , that it doth not worship the cross as a memorative sign , but because the image of christ is to be worshipped with latria , therefore it worships it . thus we see what the judgement of the most eminent and learned divines of the roman church was , concerning giving the worship of latria to images before the council of trent , and upon what , that judgement was founded , viz. the practice of the roman church , in the worship of the cross. let us now see whether this matter hath been otherwise determined by the council of trent , and whether the contrary opinion hath obtained since . that wary council knowing very well the practice of their church and the opinion of divines , only determines due honour and veneration to be given to images ; not for the sake of any divinity , or power inherent in them , for which they are to be worshipped , or that any thing is to be asked of them , or that trust is to be put in the images , as it was of old by the heathens , who placed their hope in idols ; but because the honour which is done to them , is referred to the prototypes which they represent , so that by the images which we kiss , and before which we uncover our heads , and fall down , we adore christ and worship the saints which they represent . which hath been already decreed by councils against the opposers of images , especially the second nicene synod . where we observe these things , . that all external acts of adoration are allowed to be done to images ; even the very same which were to be done to the person of christ , if he were actually present , are to be done to his image to adore him thereby . . that there is not the least intimation against giving the same kind and degree of worship to the image , which is given to christ himself . and since the council allows no proper vertue in the image for which it should be worshipped ▪ but takes all from the representation , and supposes the honour to pass to the prototype , vasquez thinks it is very evident , that the sense of the council was , that the image and the exemplar were to be worshipped with the same act of adoration , which as to the image of christ must be no less than latria . . after the council of trent , many of their most eminent divines have asserted the worship of latria to be given to images . dominicus soto a divine of the council of trent determines , that every image is to be worshipped with the same worship , that belongs to the thing represented ; as the image of god and christ with latria , and of the b. virgin and other saints with dulia . turrianus , another of the trent divines saith , that the same adoration belongs to the image , and the prototype ; as that which is called latria to christ and his image , but to christ properly , and to the image equivocally . naclantus a third divine of that council saith , that if the object represented ought to be worshipped with latria , so ought the image too . and what more reasonable way can we have to understand the sense of the council , than from the divines who were present and managed the debates of it ? gretser hath a whole chapter to prove , that the cross is to be worshipped with latria . card. palaeotus saith , that the same worship which is given to the prototype may be given to the image , but with the different degrees of latria and dulia , &c. when , saith he , the person of christ is worshipped without an image , that adoration is terminated upon his essence and person as in themselves ; but when he is worshipped in an image , then his essence and person is worshipped as represented and being in that image ; although he be not really there , but according to his figure and similitude . gregory de valentia confesses it to be the same divine worship they give to the image of christ that they do to the prototype , because the image is worshipped in the stead of christ , but , he saith , it is given in a different respect to them both : but besides this , he allows an inferiour worship to the image which is terminated on it self . and in both these petrus thyraeus agrees with him . cornelius curtius an augustinian , contends for latria to be due to the very nails of christs cross , by reason of their contact of the person of christ , which worship , he saith , was approved by the church , when innocent . appointed the festival of the souldiers launce and the nails of the cross. ludovicus de paramo the inquisitour of sicily determines , that the cross is to be worshipped with no other worship than that of latria : and if it be taken as joyned with christ in the mind , it is to be worshipped with a perfect act of absolute latria : which belongs to christ perse and to the cross concomitanter & per accidens : but if it be taken as the material object of adoration , then it is only a relative latria for the sake of christ. and he adds , that an image is truly and properly to be adored or coadored with the exemplar : which he proves from the council of trent . to which he subjoyns a remarkable story , viz. of one ioh. aegidius canon of savil , who was forced to make a publick retractation for denying the adoration of the cross , which was judged to be contrary to the practice of the church , when it saith , o crux ave spes unica , and in another place crucem tuam adoramus ; and for saying that god was to be worshipped with latria and the cross with dulia : which propositions he rejected as heretical ; and asserted that the cross was to be worshipped with the same worship of latria that christ himself is . from whence lud. de paramo concludes , that this opinion is the most agreeable to the catholick faith. paulus maria quarti a clericus regularis , in his late commentaries on the rubricks of the missal agrees exactly with ludovicus à paramo in the manner of adoration of the cross : and for images of christ , he saith , that their opinion is more probable who make it to be absolute latria , and not reductive and analogical . gregorius valentianus in his commentaries on the hymns declares his consent with s. thomas about worshipping the cross with latria . layman saith , that we do not worship the images of christ with an absolute latria , because they have no divinity or rational excellency in them ; but with a relative worship whereby we worship the image and exemplar together , we ought to acknowledge that the cross and images of christ are worshipped with latria . eligius bassaeus a capuchine agrees with layman , that this is not absolute , but a relative latria , but he determines that the cross whatever matter it be made of , ought to be worshipped with latria as a sign ; but that very cross on which christ did hang , not only as a sign , but in regard of contact of his body ; and so the nail and thorns , and sponge , and other things which touched his body , except only iudas his lips , and the ass he rode on to hierusalem , because they did not partake of his sanctity , as no doubt the nails and the wood of the cross did . but he hath yet a farther subtilty about this latria , for , he saith , that when the image of christ is the material object of worship , and christ as represented the reason of that worship , that is not absolute , but relative latria ; but when christ and the image together make up the same material object of adoration , then it is properly latria ; which he endeavours to prove both from the councils of nice and trent ▪ phil. gamachaeus a late professour of divinity of the sorbon determins , that the cross and image of christ as they represent him , and as they are conceived together with christ , ought to be worshipped with the supreme worship of latria : because christ himself is the reason of the adoration , and because the church doth so worship the cross. o crux ave spes unica . the same is asserted as to relative latria by n. ysambertus another late professour of the sorbon , ( whom i the rather mention , that this might not be thought the particular opinion of any orders among them , as of the dominicans or iesuits ) who asserts , that both the cross and images of christ are to be worshipped therewith , because the image and the exemplar make up one complex object , whose soul , as it were , is the exemplar , and whose body is the image , to which object the adoration is directed , so , as that the worship to the person of christ is absolute , and to the image respective : but yet so , as that the image is at least the partial terminative object of such adoration . i might produce many more testimonies not only of schoolmen , but of casuists , as filliucius , iacobus à graffiis , azorius and others ; but i need not do it , since azorius affirms , that this is the common opinion of their divine● . all the difficulty is how to reconcile this doctrine with the definition of the council of nice : and about this they have fallen into parties and made a pleasant counter-scuffle among themselves . catharinus saith , that none of the ancients did ever allow images to be worshipped with latria ; and if this proposition be true , that an image as an image is to be worshipped with latria , that likewise is true , that an image is to be worshipped with latria , for all wise men understand an image as an image ; but this is so far from being in any ancient writer that the contrary is expresly there , and especially in the decree of the council of nice ; and therefore , he hath no way to excuse the doctrine of thomas , but by saying he had never seen that decree . but it is plain thomas aq. had more regard to the practice of the church , than to the definition of that synod , which he thought could not otherwise be defended . the main argument of catharinus against this opinion , is , latria is due to none but god ; but an image however considered as an image is not god. and whatever the imagination of the person passeth to upon the sight of an image , that can never make that to be god which is not god. if a man takes the image for god , that is an abominable errour : if he saith , it is not god and yet worships it with latria ; this is plainly giving latria to something else besides god. if it be said , that it is the same act of the mind which passeth from the image to the prototype , and consequently the same adoration of both ; this , he saith , will not hold , for if the image be worshipped , that must be the object of adoration , and the worship of the image must be terminated on the image , otherwise it is not the worship of the image , but of the thing represented ; neither can it be understood how there should be two objects and but one adoration . some answer that the image and prototype make one total object of adoration , and so it is but one act and that of latria ; but this , saith he , makes strange confusion that the act of worship should be equally terminated on both . if they say it begins at the image , and is terminated on the prototype , that is not , saith he , proper worship of an image which is not terminated on it ; and how can that be a partial object of adoration , if the worship be no wayes terminated on it ? others say , there is a twofold latria per se & per accidens , the former is only due to god , the latter may be given to an image : this , saith he , contradicts the former , for then the same act of worship would be both per se and per accidens , which is ridiculous ; and that which is per accidens ought not to be looked on as worship , for any thing may be said to be worshipped with latria per accidens . others say , that the worship of the image is not terminated on the image , but on the thing represented , and yet say it is the worship of the image as an image , which as such is distinct from the thing represented , which , saith he , is not intelligible . to say the image is worshipped improperly , is a saying not fit for philosophers or divines , but for poets and orators . for it is no more properly said the image is worshipped with latria , than that the image is the thing represented ; which no man in his senses would say properly . to cajetans saying , that an image as performing the office of an image is under that notion , the same with the thing represented , he answers , that such a metamorphosis is impossible by any act of the image , or of imagination : but to defend , saith he , that the image as an image , or as representing is the same with the thing represented , and so as that the latria is any wayes terminated on the image , is to be mad ones self , and to endeavour to make others so . therefore others say , that the images are not truly and properly worshipped , but the things represented at them , before them , or in them ; but this , saith he , destroyes the worship of images , and is against the practice of the church , which directs the posture , words , and signs of adoration , ( even incense ) to the images , as when we say to the cross , o crux ave spes unica . this we see is the burden of the song , among them all ; the church practises thus , and thus ; this practice must be defended one way or other , and happy the man that doth it best ; but still the practice must be continued , for catharinus inveighs bitterly against erasmus , for saying , he thought it safer and easier to take images out of churches than to fix the just bounds of worship and to prevent superstition . and he grants at last , that by a fiction of the mind , supposing the image to be the person represented , it may be said , that the image is to be worshipped with latria , yet he concludes , that no one ancient writer , that he could ever see , did allow , that images might any way be worshipped with latria , but all of them did abominate such an expression . and he adds , that the doctrine of thomas doth rather take off from images , that true and real worship , which , he saith , from the nicene council ought to be given to them , and terminated on themselves though for the sake of the things represented by them . martinus peresius ayala saith , that the doctrine of giving latria to images is repugnant to fathers and councils , especially to the definition of the council of nice ; and he adds , that there is no more connexion between a sign and the thing signified , than between two relatives , as between father and son , and although the son represent the father , yet no man will say , that by the same act of knowledge , whereby i know the son as a son , i do know his father , for then the relative opposition would be taken away , and the different definitions of correlatives ; so , saith he , although by the image a conception doth arise of the thing represented , yet it is not the same act of knowledge whereby i apprehend the image and the thing represented : but suppose it were so , there is not the same reason for worship as for knowledge . for it is not repugnant to an image as an image to be apprehended by the same act with the thing represented : but it seems repugnant to an image as an image to be worshipped with the same worship with the thing represented ; because an image , however considered , is an insensible creature , to which they all grant no worship is due ; and although it represent never so much , it doth not change its nature , but a block remains a block still , and a stone doth not become rational by it . but , say they , is not the kings robe worshipped with the same worship that his person is ? i confess , saith he , the whole person as clothed is worshipped , and his clothes are no more separated , than any other habits or dispositions he hath about him . but , if the kings robe be separated from his person , what reason is there to worship that as the king himself is worshipped ? and the princes image is neither substantially nor accidentally the same with the prince , and therefore is not to be compared with his robe ; and although some honour be due to the kings image , yet no man ever saw , unless by the compulsion of some tyrant , a princes image worshipped after the same manner that his person is . and s. augustin gives no other reason for the worship of the humanity of christ ( which he compares with the princes robe ) but because it is united to the divinity ; which reason cannot hold for such an imaginary union , between the image and the thing represented , and therefore it ought not to be worshipped with the same adoration . besides , saith he , if this were allowed , we might sacrifice to an image , as well as do other acts of latria to it , which cannot be said without blasphemy ; but he concludes , that he defines nothing , and submits all to the judgement of the church . estius declares , that although almost all the schoolmen were for latria to be given to the cross , yet that it is point-blank against the definition of the council of nice ; and it is an unsatisfactory answer to say , they only were against latria to be given to images for themselves or absolute latria ; for no man ever doubted of that , that they were not to have divine worship for themselves ; and the council puts a distinction between the worship of the image and the exemplar ; and joyns images with the gospels and vessels , which no man ever thought were to be worshipped with any kind of latria : and that , when s. basil saith , the honour of the image passes to the prototype , he means no more than that the image is honoured for the sake of the thing represented : and that , if an image may be worshipped with latria , then sacrifice may be offered to it , which was condemned in carpocrates and the collyridians : and then those things which have a nearer conjunction than an image may be better worshipped so , as the b. virgin which bore him in her womb . neither is it enough to say , they have proper excellencies of their own ; for they might receive a double honour , the one proper , the other relative ; and supposing no danger of errour , then it might be done , and medina , he saith , yields it of the b. virgin not absolutely , but by reason of the conjunction between christ and her while he was in her womb . thus far in the opinion of these men , the case seems desperate as to the reconciling the doctrine of giving latria to images with reason , or the council of nice . but we must not imagine a doctrine so generally allowed and so suitable to the practice of their church should be thus given up . therefore vasquez undertakes the business , and like a generous adversary , not only proves that this may be the sense of the councils , but that they could have no other ; because , an image cannot be lawfully worshipped any other way , than as in and by that the exemplar is made the term and next material object of adoration . this he shews , not only from the common consent of their divines , but from the council of trent it self , where it sayes , . that no worship is to be given to images for the sake of any vertue inherent in them ; but if images be worshipped as separated from the exemplar , they must be worshipped for some virtue inherent in themselves ; and whatever impression of sanctity is supposed to be in them , it is only an inanimate sign of such a sanctity as doth not make it an object of adoration : and if the excellency of the thing represented be the reason moving to adoration , that excellency cannot be conceived as distinct from the exemplar when it makes the image capable of adoration . if they say the excellency is derived from the exemplar to the image , then it follows , that there is an inherent vertue in the images for which they are worshipped , which is contrary to the council of trent . . that council makes this to be the only reason of worshipping images , because the honour passeth to the exemplar , which shews plainly that according to the sense of it , they are to be worshipped only as joyned with the exemplar , and by no means as separated from it . and the same he proves , by expressions to the like purpose , from the council of nice ; and from the former testimony of basil , which , he saith , cannot be otherwise understood than of the same adoration of the image and exemplar , or else s. basils testimony was very impertinently alledged in the council of nice , and doth not serve the purpose for which he used those words himself ; many other testimonies he produces , and at last concludes that the other opinion is no older than catharinus and ayala , and that all those who were for the worship of images before , viz. fathers and schoolmen , were of his opinion . and he proves his opinion from this reason because no inanimate thing is of it self capable of worship ; but an image considered as an image , but without the exemplar , is an inanimate thing : the major he proves , because worship is a token of submission to something on the account of its excellency , and superiority ; but to use such to an inanimate thing , is to make our selves slaves to images , which would be idolatry : and on the same account a man uses such a mark of submission , he may as well pray to images , or beg something of them , as a servant doth of his master , he saith , that alexander and thomas , although they never saw the seventh synod , yet did speak the sense of it , as well as if they had seen it : and when that council denies latria to images , it is to be underderstood only of the inward submission of the soul , and not of the external acts of adoration ; and so he answers all the arguments from the councils and fathers : and he saith , that it may be delivered absolutely , that images are to be worshipped with latria , if by that be meant the same worship which is given to the exemplar ; and that the doctrine of inferiour worship tends to folly and superstition , and that his own opinion is the most useful to be preached to the people . suarez is by no means satisfied with this way , saying , the author of it must necessarily fall into the abusive and improper way of worship which is condemned in durandus and holcot , for he takes away all proper worship of images , and makes them only seem to be worshipped ; for the external acts of adoration , without the internal is but an appearance of worship , and no real worship . therefore he proceeds after another method , which is this : . the prototype may be worshipped in the image , and the image for the sake of the prototype , with one and the same act of adoration , both internal and external : to explain this he distinguishes between the esse reale , and the esse repraesentativum of the prototype ; and although the image doth not contain the prototype in the first , it does in the latter sense , i. e. in plain terms , although the person of christ be not in the image , yet we may fancy him to be there ; which being supposed , the mind of him that worships is carried primarily to the exemplar , and by way of concomitancy to the image ; not believing the image to be christ , ( for that were a dangerous thing ) but that it doth represent him as if he were there : and consequently this imagination is a sufficient ground to perform all acts of adoration to the image , as if the person of christ were actually present . which is just like a schoolmaster , whom i knew , who being to come into an unusual presence , he goes into a pit , where there were many trees , and although every one of them had the esse reale of a tree , yet he supposed them to have a distinct esse repraesentativum of the several persons he was to make his congies too ; and having thus fastned the esse repraesentativum of the person to the proper tree , he makes all his approaches and with the same complements he intended to use to the persons themselves . if one should have surprised him in this act of civil worship to the trees , and asked him , whether he believed the trees to be the persons whose names he called them by , he would no doubt , ( if he had been versed in school divinity ) have answered to this very subtilly with suarez , that he was not such an ass , not to distinguish the esse reale of the tree , from the esse repraesentativum of the persons ; and although he bowed and made leggs to the trees , he did not consider them in so doing as trees , but as representing those persons to whom he was bound to shew all that reverence , which he shewed to the trees upon the imagination that they were those very persons ; so that the reverence was primarily and per se shewn to those persons , and but concomitanter & per accidens , and after an inferiour manner , to the trees . but saith suarez , the image is not so properly adored , as co-adored , as the kings robe is with his person ; and although the image be really different from the person of christ , yet he is worshipped in his true being as represented by the image , and as it were vested with it , and so they both become one object , and that person is worshipped , and the image together with him with the very same act of adoration . i am glad to hear that , saith the schoolmaster , for i hope by this means , i may do my reverences to the persons themselves , by performing them to them as represented in their true beings in these trees ; and i pray sir do not think me such a fop that i would do all this to them considered as trees , in actu signato , for i consider them as images in actu exercito ; and although you may think i do it to the trees , you are mistaken ; my mind all that while unites the person represented and the tree together ; and although my reverence be primarily designed to the person for his own sake , and to the tree only for the sake of the person represented , yet this is only a co-reverence , such as a man shews to the person of another , by kissing the hem of his garment , only there the person is really vested , and here it is only by imagination . . suarez saith , since it is agreed among catholicks ; that the reason of the worship of the image is the excellency of the exemplar ; that may be considered two wayes . . as the objectum quod or the thing it self worshipped in and by the image as before . . as the objectum quo , i. e. as the reason of giving worship to the image it self : and this is that worship which vasquez charges with folly and superstition ; but suarez undertakes to prove this to be a possible and lawful worship , when the image is truly and properly worshipped non adorato directè ut quod ipso exemplari ; i. e. the worship not fixing immediately on the thing represented but on the image it self , although on the account of the exemplar : for which he makes use of this notable argument ; because in this act of worship there is nothing omitted but a directing the intention to the exemplar , but there is no precept that requires , that as often as we worship the image , we ought to direct our intention farther than the image it self ; and therefore that worship is lawful . and although , an inanimate thing be not , as vasquez urges , adorabile propter se , yet it may , saith suarez , with wonderful subtilty , be adorable in se propter aliud : and this second kind of worship he endeavours to prove was established by the councils of nice and trent , as well as the first . bellar. undertakes to clear the whole matter by these propositions . . that the images of christ and the saints are to be worshipped not only per accidens or impropriè , but per se & propriè , so as they terminate the worship , as considered in themselves , and not meerly as they represent the exemplar : which he proves , from the definition of the nicene council , which decreed images to be worshipped and not with latria : but if the image were to be worshipped with a respect only to the exemplar , then it could not be denyed that an image of christ was to be worshipped with latria . . he would not have it said before the people that images are to be worshipped with latria , but rather the contrary , because the distinctions necessary to defend it are too subtle for their noddles , and the truth is , the men that make them do hardly understand them themselves . . but if we speak among our selves and of the plain truth of the case , images may be worshipped with latria , but then it is improperly and per accidens : as it is represented in the image . . if we speak of worship per se & propriè , so no image is to be worshipped with latria ; because this was condemned by the nicene council . . yet , he saith , that the worship which ought to be given to images per se & propriè , is analogically and reductively the same that is given to the exemplar , i. e. the worship of an image of christ is analogical latria : so that it is , and it is not latria ; it is so , but we must not say so ; yet if we speak of the proper worship of images , that is not so and yet it is so , i. e. analogically and improperly ; but if we speak of the proper worship of latria , then it is not so . but doth not the proper worship of latria belong to christs person ? therefore if christs person be worshipped in the image , it ought to be worshipped with latria . true , saith bellarmin , when he is worshipped in his own person , but not as he is in an image by participation ; but he that is worshipped in the image is supposed to be the true object of latria , and therefore christ as in the image must be worshipped with latria . if representation be a sufficient ground of worship , then his presence being supposed in the image doth require the same worship , as they say is due to him under the sacramental species : and the manner of his being represented in the image would take no more off from the nature of the worship , than the princes robe doth from the worship due to his person . and bernardus pujol from thence proves , that it is lawful to worship the image and exemplar with the same act of adoration as one complex object , because the church doth worship the sacrament of the eucharist with latria , as it is one complex object made up of the species and christ himself as there present . the same author proves against bellarmin , that the proper worship given to images is not meerly analogically and reductively latria , but properly , although more imperfect , like that which is given to the humanity of christ , and therefore , he saith , the meaning of the council was only to exclude absolute latria , and not relative ; with whom ysambertus agrees , who likewise saith , that when the image and prototype are worshipped with latria , the image is a terminative object of that adoration , at least as a part to make one entire object of the exemplar and the image . card. lugo saith , that vasquez hath not spoken clearly to this point , about the aggregate object , made up of the image and the exemplar ; for , saith he , if internal adoration were allowed to the image as a partial object , it would go a great way to the proving that the image it self may be so worshipped in recto , i. e. without the worship of the exemplar : and he thinks , that the same act of adoration may be terminated in recto , both on the image and the exemplar : and that this aggregate object hath a sufficient excellency to terminate inward worship upon the image as a part of that object . arriaga disputes at large against the opinion of vasquez ; but after all he concludes , that we may say absolutely , that latria is due to the image of christ , and he makes it the same case as to images and the humanity of christ ; and to the nicene council , he saith , that they spake not of the images of god , but of angels and saints , to which no doubt latria is not due ; and he stretches the words of epiphanius the deacon , to this sense , that no images of creatures are to be worshipped with latria ; therefore , saith he , they did worship the image of god with latria . very subtle i confess ! and like epiphanius his own self , who argues in that council , much after that rate , and with equal probability . petavius concludes with the generality of their divines , that the design of the council of nice was only to exclude absolute latria , and not relative : for which he quotes the greek excerpta , wherein it is said , that the image doth not differ in hypostasis from the prototype but only in nature : from whence he inferrs , that it is the same act of adoration to the image and the thing represented . but if all the danger lay in supposing images to be distinct hypostates ; the heathens in that council declared , that they did not look on them as such , but only as representations , and therefore in that respect they were no more to blame than the nicene fathers in the worship of them . from all this discourse we see , ( . ) that some great divines in the roman church do assert proper and absolute latria to be given to the images of christ , as those who assert , the image and christ to make up one entire object of adoration . ( . ) that the doctrine of a relative latria to be given to images , and such as is given to the humanity of christ , hath almost universally obtained in the roman church . ( . ) that they all agree in this , that the external acts of adoration are to be performed to images , such as genuflections , prostrations , burning of lights and incense , &c. ( . ) that those who assert an inferiour adoration to be given to images , do suppose that adoration to terminate in the images themselves , although it be given on the account of the thing represented . ( . ) that those who differ from each other in this matter , do in effect charge one another with idolatry : but of that afterwards . nothing now remains to the full stating of this controversie , but to consider the practice of the roman church in the worship of images , which may be gathered very much from the former discourse , but will receive somewhat more light by these observations . . that the church of rome hath determined in her publick offices , that latria is due to the cross of christ , viz. in the pontificale , where the rubrick determines the manner of procession at the reception of the emperour ; and there it is said , that the cross of the legat ought to have the right hand , quia debetur ei latria , because latria is due to it ; not only that it may lawfully be given to it , but that it is due to it , without any mention of the exemplar , or any distinctions , or limitations about the nature of this latria . . that solemn prayers are made for the consecration of the images set up for worship and for virtue to be given to them . in the office of benediction of a new cross there is this prayer , rogamus te domine sancte , pater omnipotens , sempiterne deus , ut digneris bene ✚ dicere hoc lignum crucis tue , ut sit remedium salutare generi humano ; sit soliditas fidei , profectus honorum operum , redemptio animarum ; sit solamen , & protectio ac tutela contra seba jacula inimicorum . per dominum nostrum , &c. is this prayer made in faith or no ? whereby they pray for such mighty benefits by a new cross ; and to take away any suspicions of metonymies and prosopopoeia's it is said expresly hoc lignum crucis tuae , this wood of thy cross , may be a wholsome remedy to mankind , a strengthener of faith , an increaser of good works , the redemption of souls , a comfort , protection and defence against the cruelty of our enemies . and after such prayers , allowed and used by publick authority in the roman church , with what conscience could the council of trent say , that they believed no vertue in images , nor hoped for any thing from them ? after this , the bishop consecrates the incense , and prays for many good things to come by that too , then the cross is sprinkled with holy water , and then he incenseth it , saying , sanctificetur lignum istud , in nomine pa ✚ tris & fi ✚ lii , & spiritus ✚ sancti ; & benedictio illius ligni in quo membra sancta salvatoris suspensa sunt , sit in isto ligno ; ut orantes inclinanresque se propter deum ante istam cru●em inveniant corporis & anime sanitatem . per eundem , &c. then the bishop kneels before the cross , and devoutly adores , and kisses it ; and as many besides as please : after this follows a long prayer for the sanctification of that new sign of the cross ; then the bishop kneels , adores and kisses again , and as many as will. then follow particular offices for the consecration of an image of the b. virgin , and of other images . in the ceremoniale romanum , we find very strange prayers upon the consecration of the agnus dei's , which if there were any ground to hope for any of the advantages there prayed for , by the worship and honour of them , no one that loved either his soul or body would be without them . for the pope himself , good man , prays thus , tu eos bene ✚ dicere , sanctifi ✚ care , & consecr ✚ are digneris , ut tua larga benedictione sanctificati eandem virtutem accipiant contra omnes diabolicas versutias & fraudes maligni spiritus ; ut illos devote super se ferentibus , nulla tempestas eisdem prevaleat , nulla adversitas dominetur , nulla aura pestilens , neque aeris corruptio , nullusque morbus caducus , nulla maris procella & tempestas , nullum incendium , neque ulla iniquitas dominetur eis , neque prebaleat : homo partus cum matre incolumis conservetur per intercessionem unigeniti , &c. what admirable vertue have these agnus dei's in them ! they are , good against the devil , good against storms , pestilence , falling-sickness , and sin ; and what could a man wish for more ? but then it is to be observed that these vertues do not depend meerly on the carrying of these about one , but the worship of them is required too : so in another prayer there extant , bene ✚ dicas , & benedicta sancti ✚ fices , quatenus ipsorum veneratione & honore nobis famulis tuis crimina diluantur , &c. and there we find the verses of urban . which he sent to the greek emperour with three agnus dei's . no mountebank ever set forth the power of his medicines with more advantage , than the pope doth the vertue of his agnus dei's . balsamus , & munda cera cum chrismatis unda , conficiunt agnum ; quod munus do tibi magnum : fonte velut natum per mystica sanctificatum . fulgura de sursum depellit , omne malignum peccatum frangit , ut christi sanguis : & angit . pregnans servatur ; simul & partus liberatur . dona defert dignis ; virtutem destruit ignis , portatus munde de fluctibus eripi● unde . stephanus quaranta having met with a more perfect copy , adds some more verses of the vertues of these little images of wax ; and it is great pity any of them should be lost . morte repentina servat , sataneque ruina . si quis honoret eum , retinet super hoste cropheum , parsque minor tantum tota valet integra quantum . agnus dei , miserere mei , qui crimnia tollis , miserere nobis . it is not to be questioned , saith azorius , but , the pope himself having made these prayers over them ( to whom alone it belongs to consecrate them the first year of his popedom , and every seventh year after ) they will have the effects prayed for , if they be used with that due reverence and devotion which is required . i find nothing more ingenuously confessed to have been taken from heathenism , than the wearing of agnus dei's for such uses , by cardinal baronius , and rasponi . baronius saith , the newly baptized used to have them hanged about their necks , instead of the little amulets the gentiles put upon their childrens necks against fascination . for , saith he , it being impossible to break off all the gentile customes , in those who were become christians , they were allowed the continuance of them , so they were turned to the worship of the true god. and card. rasponi saith , that instead of the little images of false gods , these were invented to be worn for the same purposes , viz. the driving away the mischiefs both of body and soul. these were called bullae , which were worn by boys , and pupae , by girles , being little round images , that were first hung upon children , and after used by the greatest persons , as by those that triumphed , as rasponi observes , to prevent the power of enchantment . ( those that consider this and the saliva lustralis , used upon the dies lustricus among the heathens , frontemque atque uda labella infami digito , & lustralibus ante salivis expiat — with the great vertues attributed by them to salt , and oile , and holy water , may easily understand that part of the roman rituale , which concerns the ceremonies they have added to baptism . ) but besides the bullae , which the heathens used for amulets , they had little images , which they carried about with them ; in which they supposed there were great vertues , and to which they gave divine worship . so dio saith , caesar carried a little image of venus ; and suetonius of nero , that he had icunculam puellarem , and which he secretly worshipped three times a day ; and asclepiades did carry alwayes about with him a little image of the dea coelestis , saith ammianus marcellinus ; as apuleius saith , he did himself , a little mercury which he worshipped , which , he said , ought not to be touched but with pure hands , being a consecrated thing ; just as azorius determines , that no laymen ought to touch an agnus dei , for the very same reason , because they are consecrated : and the council of milan under carolus borromaeus ( since canonized ) declares , that when any artificer makes a golden or crystal case to put an agnus dei in , he must not presume to touch it either with his gloves , or with any instrument ; but he must send for one in holy orders to put it into the case . and after all this , is it possible for any to suppose , that the heathens did attribute virtue to their images , and that they in the church of rome do not ? when they pray for virtues to be given to them ; and believe great efficacy to be in them , and use them with as much superstition as the heathens did . whatever then the council of trent hath determined to avoid calumny , the solemn prayers , and offices , and practice of their church , do sufficiently manifest that they believe virtue to be in images , and consequently do trust in them for those effects which were pray'd to be given by their means . ( . ) we ought to compare the practice of the worship of images in heathen and christian rome together ; and if either exceed the other , the latter hath done it in some parts of folly and superstition . the solemn rites which concerned the worship of images in heathen rome lay in these things , . consecration . . supplication . . pompous procession . . consecration of images for publick worship ; which was to be performed by the pontifices or priests . before consecration , saith quintilian ; they are only the works of mens hands , it is that which brings god into them , and makes them fit to be set up for worship ; this therefore is not to be permitted to all , but only to those whose hands are pure , and devoted to sacred things . this consecration was generally performed with a certain form of words , which is now lost with the old pontifical books ; but perhaps , saith gutherius , they had none at all ; no more than they had in the consecration of emperours ; which was done only by the solemnity of the action it self . minucius felix makes the adorning , consecration , and prayers , to be the necessary things , which make an image to become a god ; i. e. when it is solemnly dedicated to divine worship . but they had two sorts of consecrated images , some that were only ornamental , which they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and others that were the proper images of the temple , which were set up over the middle altar , and to that god , whom that image represented , the temple was dedicated , and the rest , as servius tells us , were only to beautifie the temple . vitruvius saith , the images were to be above the altars , that they who came to pray and sacrifice at the altar , might look on the divinity ; as it is fully expressed in one of the coyns of domitian mentioned by gutherius and gevartius . this was the high altar , besides which , there were generally two other at least ; the one near the entrance , where the beasts were sacrificed and burnt ; the other held the vessels and utensils and was called anclabris saith festus : but the chief altar was that , over which the image was placed , and was called altare ab altitudine , i. e. the high altar . and it is very observable , although it hath been little taken notice of , that the sacrifices were burnt at the lower altar ; which the priests having done , they then went up to the high altar , and there did adolere , i.e. offer incense and prayers ; for as arnobius saith , they did cast their incense into the fire , ante ipsa numinum signa , before the images of the gods , which , he there saith , they believed to be the chief part of worship , and to have the greatest influence on propitiating the gods. from whence i observe , how unreasonably those of the church of rome , meerly to excuse themselves , have made sacrifice the only external act of latria , and excluded incense and supplication from being peculiar to god ; when among both iews and gentiles , these were looked on as the more solemn and diviner parts of worship . . supplication : which properly relates to the prayers made in great distresses ; but i take it as comprehending all their solemn prayers ; which were wont to be made among the old romans , with great expressions of devotion , before the images of their gods ; which in arnobius is expressed by deorum ante ora prostrati ; by lucretius , pandere palmas — ante deum delubra ; by caesar , ante simulachra projecti victoriam à diis exposcerent ; by lucan , moestaeque tenent delubra catervae ; by ovid , summissoque genu vultus in imagine divae fixit . which , with many other expressions to the same purpose in latin authors , do imply , that they made their prayers before the images of their gods ; and not that they took the images themselves for gods , any otherwise than those do who suppose some extraordinary presence after consecration ; or by the power of imagination represented them as present to them in their images ; which the romans properly called adoration : which was orare ad to pray to them as present ; or ad os orare , as gutherius interprets it ; thence arnobius , quotidianis supplicationibus adorare . and this on great occasions , was performed through all the temples for two or three days , as the senate thought fit , as we find it often in livy , with solemn processions of the people . . another part of the divine honour they gave to images , was the carrying them in pomp upon solemn festivals ( which is largely described by dionysius : ) for then they carried their gods from the capitol through the forum into the great cirque ; and after the several orders of men in the procession , at last came the images of the gods carried upon mens backs ; and when this procession was over , the prayers and sacrifices began . this was looked on as so peculiar to the gods , that suetonius reckons it as one of the great instances of caesars affecting divine honours , that he would have his image carried in this sacred procession . let us now see what the practice of rome christian hath been in these particulars . . for consecration , we have already seen the set forms appointed for it in the roman pontifical ; although the nicene council thought no other consecration necessary , than the setting up the images for publick worship ; yet the roman church would not let people imagine them defective in any thing which the heathens did towards the more solemn worship of images . . for supplication before them ; let the images set up for worship over the high altar speak for them , whether in this point of adoration they come behind heathen rome . by the rubrick of the missal , in every solemn mass , the priest is to go up to the middle of the altar , and there having kissed the altar , he puts the incense into the thuribulum , which he is to do three times with his right hand , and his left hand on his breast ; having done this , he makes a profound reverence to the crucifix over the altar ( as appears by the picture of the altar in gavantus ) and three times incenseth that ; then bowing again to the crucifix he incenseth the altar ; which is to be done with so much niceness and ceremony , that gavantus reckons up twenty nine times , with their exact order , wherein the several parts of the altar and crucifix are to be incensed by the priest who celebrates mass. if there be any reliques or images of saints about the altar , after the incensing and adoration of the crucifix , before the priest goes from the middle of the altar , he first incenseth those on the right-hand , and then making his reverence to the cross , he doth the same to those on the left-hand . philander in his notes on vitruvius , in his discourse to paul . about the right placing of images , saith , that the due placing of images is over the altars , as the image of the madonna at loreto , hath a holy altar before it of square stone , saith tursellinus ; and accordingly matthaeus riccius saith , that in china they placed the image of the b. virgin on the altar , where they every day did offer their devotions . aloysius novarinus glories in the invention of a new sort of worship , viz. of the b. virgin big-bellied , with christ in her womb ; which was called , la madonna dell ' allegrezza , and he saith , that he caused an altar to be erected , and an image to be set up for this worship , first at verona ; and desires it may be generally received , as the most excellent way of her worship , to promote which , he saith , he had written , ( no doubt , an admirable book ) of the life of christ in the womb of the virgin. and for praying to images , it is done with as much ceremony and formality as it ever was among the heathens ; with prostrations , genuflections , looking as devoutly upon the images , approaching to them , and touching them with as much shew of reverence as ever was used among them ; insomuch that if an old roman were revived and saw the modern practices of worship of images at rome , he would say they had done by worship as the stoicks did by philosophy , viz. only changed the names , when the things were the same . nay scarce any superstition can be mentioned so barbarous among the heathen idolaters towards images , but it is practised in the roman church ; witness the binding the image of s. anthony to get a good wind , which peter della valle saith , it much used , and not without success among the portugals ; and boulaye le gouz mentions their putting the images of s. anthony and the b. virgin , with their heads forward into wells , drawing them up and down there , to procure rain , and for other very useful purposes . but setting aside such barbarous superstition of the people ( which is not condemned by their spiritual governours that we find ) we need insist on no more than what is either required , or commonly allowed and practised with approbation . we have already seen by the confession of their best writers , that their church does allow praying to the cross in the most express and formal terms of prayer , o crux ave spes unica , hoc passionis tempore , piis adauge gratiam , reisque dele crimina . wherein bernardus pujol confesses that not only the common people , but the church it self doth speak to the cross , as the image of christ ; and what is this then , but praying to the image ? upon the third of may we find this antiphona to the cross , o crux splendidior cunctis astris , mundo celebris , hominibus multùm amabilis , sanctior universis , quae sola fuisti digna portare talentum mundi , dulce lignum , dulces clavos , dulcia ferens pondera ; salva praesentem catervam in tuis hodie laudibus congregatam . but the most solemn adoration of the cross is performed upon good-friday , which according to the rubricks of the roman missal is after this manner , prayers being ended , the priest goes to the epistle side of the altar , and there takes the cross from the deacon ; and then turns to the people , and by degrees uncovers a little of it from the top , and begins the antiphona , ecce lignum crucis , in qua salus mundi pependit , then the choire sings , venite adoremus ; at which they all prostrate themselves ( not to the earth saith gavantus , but with kneeling , and a very lowly reverence ) then he goes forward to the corner of the altar , and opening the right-hand of the crucifix , and lifting it up a little , he sings louder , ecce lignum , &c. and the rest sing and adore again ; then he goes to the middle of the altar , and uncovers the whole crucifix , and lifts it up and sings yet louder , and they adore , as before . when this is done , the priest carries it to a place prepared before the altar , and there kneeling he places it ; then he pulls off his shooes , and goes to worship the cross , three times kneeling , before he kisses it : and after him , the rest do it in their order . and the pope himself on that day , laies aside his mitre , hath his shooes pull'd off , and goes between two cardinals ad adorandum , to worship the cross , before which he kneels three times at a convenient distance , and prays , and then kisses it : and so all the cardinals two and two , and the rest after them . several other ceremonies there are in the missals of york and salisbury ; but those which are in the roman missal are sufficient to prove that they in the roman church are bound to give as solemn adoration to the cross , as ever any heathens gave to any images whatsoever . besides this , they make solemn supplication to other images of christ ; as to that of the veronica at rome , in those known verses , salve sancta facies nostri redemptoris , &c. wherein they pray to the image , to purge them from sin and bring them to heaven ; which are pretty reasonable requests to be made to an image , especially so authentick a one as that is ▪ of which bzovius saith , that it hath supreme honour among christians , and hath an altar on purpose for it , which is called altare sanctissimi sudarii , ( as he shews from grimaldus ) in s. peter's church at rome , & was in the oratory of pope john . and the monuments of the consecration of that altar are still preserved among other records of that church : which had priests belonging to it . this image is shewed at solemn times , and then the people fall down and worship it ; the manner whereof is described by pope pius . relating the procession of the pope at the translation of the head of s. andrew ; the pope coming in romp with the cardinals and clergy to that part of the church where the veronica was , commanded it to be shewn . forthwith the cardinal of s. mark goes up the steps , and shews the venerable and sacred image , the people three times crying out mercy . it was , saith he , a wonderful thing at one time to see our b. saviour ( in this image ) and the reliques of the apostle ; and the pope and cardinals and clergy kneeling and praying with their heads uncovered , viz. to this image of veronica ? gretser saith , that in some missals there was a missa de veronica , with an indulgence granted by innocent . to those who said that mass , or but the collect there mentioned ; after which follows the sequence , viz. salve sancta facies , &c. full of devout affections , saith gretser ; which bollandus supposes to be the psalm made by innocent . for the honour of the veronica , of which matth. paris speaks . but we are not to imagine the veronica to be only thus worshipped at rome ; for the very same is pretended to be in spain too , in the cathedral church of iaen in boetica , where it is likewise shewed and worshipped with mighty reverence and a kind of sacred horrour , saith bollandus , twice a year . lucius marinaeus saith , there is so much divinity in it , that no man can tell what colour it is of ; and that the worship of it hath mightily enriched the place ; to which clement . and iulius . granted large indulgences , and litanies are appointed to be used by the people at the shewing of it . there are others of them shewed , and worshipped in other places as both bollandus and gretser confess ; at which they seem a little troubled , but think to salve all by saying , that the rest are copies , or that veronica's handkerchief had three foldings , and every one had a distinct image , whereof one was kept at rome , another at ierusalem , and a third in spain ; but whether originals or copies , whether true or false , they are all worshipped , where ever they are , with mighty devotion , and miracles are said to be done by them . lucius marinaeus mentions another image of christ which was solemnly worshipped in spain , viz. one made by nicodemus , and was found by a merchant in an ark floating on the sea ; cujus imaginis invocato numine , saith he , the divinity of which image being pray'd to , abundance of infirm persons were healed . and he saith of ferdinand king of spain , that he did most devoutly worship a certain image of god , which he carried about with him . ab eâ itaque quicquid & necessario & honestè petebat , facile semper assequebatur ; he obtained easily and alwaies , what ever he duely prayed for to the image . another divine image of christ which hath solemn supplications made to it is that imprinted on the sacred sindon , or shroud at besancon , which is shewed twice a year upon a mountain near the city , where vast numbers of people meet to adore it ; and the devils roar at the opening of it , and the skies of a sudden clear , although it rained before , when it is shewed , and doth such mighty wonders , that chiffletius saith , presenti divin● numine semper affulget ; it hath alwaies a divine presence with it ; forty hours prayers , he saith , are often made to it , and in extraordinary necessities it is carried in procession like the ark , ( but more holy than the ark ) and in a time of general pestilence , he saith , they finding no other remedy did fly in s. sudarii asylum & clientelam , into the sanctuary and protection of this divine image , and thereupon the city instituted a society and solemn procession to the honour of it every year , on the third of may , to which other cities of burgundy , as dole and salines , joyned themselves ; and gregory . granted an indulgence to the altar erected for the honour of this image : which is called altare s sindonis . the like might be shewed concerning other images , but these are sufficient to my purpose , to prove the common and allowed practice of the worship of images in the roman church , as to the rites of supplication and adoration , to be as extravagant , as ever were among the heathens . . for solemn processions with images , we have as great instances as ever were among them ; witness the procession with the image of s. roch by the grave fathers of the council of constance , which was done , saith baronius , by a decree of that council ; when upon the plague raging there , his image was carried through the city in solemn pomp , upon which the plague stayed : from this example , saith he , his images were every where set up , and altars , chappels , and temples erected to him . witness , the procession at rome by paul . wherein the pope and cardinals went barefoot , the image of s. maria de populo , and the image of our saviour in the lateran being solemnly carried to gain a victory over the turks . cardinal rasponi saith , that is thought to be the most effectual way to obtain favour and mercy of god , to carry the image of our saviour from the lateran church in a solemn procession to s. maria major ; for then they think their prayers are most sure to be heard , when the image of christ stands by that of the b. virgin , whose authority and favour is so great with her son. so stephen . found when he carried the image on his own shoulders barefoot , the people following him , when he was much distressed by aistulphus . upon the feast of the assumption of the b. virgin , the pope and cardinals keep the vespers at s. maria major ( as rasponi describes it from benedictus canon of s. peters ) those being ended , the pope returns to the lateran ; the cardinals take from the chappel of s. laurence the image of our saviour , but first , the pope and cardinals , barefoot , make seven bowings , and then open the image and kiss the feet of it , then this image is carried with great pomp and devotion , with torches burning , and the people singing through those streets of the city that have been most troubled with serpents and devils ; for which cause pope sergius appointed this procession . but it seems so great wickedness was committed in this nocturnal procession , ( although rasponi saith , that a miracle happened of not consuming the wax of the torches , ) that pius . forbad this procession . every year in rogation week for three daies the image of the b. virgin is carried in a solemn procession from mount gardia near bononia , with publick supplications ; because one , in a time of great rain , when no other means would help them , cardinal albergati appointed such a procession against rain for four daies together , after which it seems the rain ceased . upon tuesday in easter week , sedulius describes a most solemn procession carrying the image of the b. virgin , at maestricht . first , the image is taken out of the chappel , and placed in the middle of the church for more solemn adoration ; where the people continue at their prayers all night , before the image ; at which times , he saith , the officers of the church have given away seventeen thousand little images of the b. virgin with indulgences : where , saith he , it is a pleasant sight to behold children , boys , virgins , matrons , men , only covered with linnen or flannen shirts , and barefooted to approach , to worship , to kneel , and even to creep about the image of the b. virgin ; and watering the very ground with their tears : many from the head to the knees having iron armour next to their bodies ; going upon their bare knees the whole procession ; and drawing heavy chains of iron fastened to their feet . the manner of which procession is thus set down , after mass performed to the honour of the b. virgin , and the chords of s. francis are distributed among the great persons , ( which they carry upon their garments that day like shoulder belts ) the procession begins ; first a crucifix is carried by one of the friers , whom a great number follows of men , women , and children ; all barefoot , with only linnen or flanen shifts , with torches in their hands , in the habit of penitents with great silence praying and weeping as they go . in the year . there were about a thousand in this dress , among whom were not a few men who covered their heads with iron head-pieces that they might not be known . many women drew their children after them that could hardly go ; and others carried them sucking at their breasts ; and an old woman that could not go , was carried in her bed . after these followed the whippers under the peculiar care of the iesuits , with their faces covered and barefoot . then followed another cross ; after them the franciscans singing to the praise of the b. virgin ; then the chief citizens , then the officers of her chappel , then the torch bearers immediately before the sacred image , which the choicest virgins carried on their shoulders : then followed a company of armed men , who had vowed this service to the virgin for several years . in that year . there were persons stark naked ( only where nature would not allow it ) that had iron armour on their bodies from head to foot ; and most of them drawing a heavy chain fastened to their right foot , that they might go more uneasily ; their linnen drawers did shew how the blood dropt from their flesh by the pinching of the armour ; and the very way was sprinkled with blood ; after these , the magistrates of the city followed , and the consuls and senatours all bearing torches before the host , which was carried under a silken canopy , with a most profound reverence ; then came in the last place , the governour , the nobility , and a vast multitude of all sorts of people ; and for eight dayes together many people walked the same round out of great devotion . i do not think this procession can be matched , by the supplications and the pompa circensis of old rome ; or by any of the processions with their idols , which peter della valle describes among the heathen indians , which , he confesses , to be very like those used among christians , when the images of saints are carried in procession , when any body or fraternity go in pilgrimage to loreto or rome , in the holy year . the iesuits boast very much of their zeal in setting up the worship of the images of the b. virgin in flanders , and especially of these solemn processions with her images ; particularly at courtray for nine dayes together , wherein there have been nine thousand persons : in the year . the plague raging there , a solemn supplication was appointed with a procession of the image through the city , with wonderful devotion ; and at bruges , a. d. . with an incredible number of people ; and a thousand torches of virgin wax ; and the like solemnities were set up by their means at brussels , antwerp , mechlin and other places . otho zylius a iesuite sets down the order of the procession , wherein the image of the b. virgin that was before worshipped at boisleduc was carried to brussels , upon the shoulders of four capucins , the infanta isabella following it with all the nobility , and infinite number of people , with the highest expressions of pomp and devotion , and at last it was placed in the middle of a chappel just over the altar , where it hath solemn worship given to it , and wonderful cures are said to be wrought by it . i cannot conclude this discourse , without giving some account of another notable procession at brussels of an image of the b. virgin , the occasion whereof was this ; a new confraternity was instituted in spain of the slaves of the b. virgin , by one simon rojas ; whose custome was to salute one another with those words , ave maria , instead of your humble servant , and this sodality was established with large indulgences by paul . and afterwards was begun in bruges , a. d. . having fetters as the badge of this slavery , and new indulgences from urban . ; for the establishing this society it happened luckily , that an officer of the king of spain 's fleet being sick at dunkirk , pretended to discover a great secret to barth . de los rios then preacher to isabella clara eugenia , viz. that he had a most admirable image of the b. virgin , which had been worshipped for years in the cathedral church of aberdene , and had spoken to the last catholick bishop , and had miraculously escaped the hereticks hands ; and was designed for a present to isabella ; but he , ( wretch that he was ) upon a promise made by the franciscans of his own countrey in spain , of praying for his soul and his families , had intended to have carried it thither , which he found was displeasing to the b. virgin by his dangerous sickness ; and he hoped upon this confession she would have mercy upon him ; and therefore he desired him to present this image to her highness in the name of the catholicks of aberdene ; which was received by her with wonderful devotion , and she said her prayers before it morning and evening ; but this did not satisfie her , for she resolved to have this image carried to brussels with a solemn procession , and for that purpose obtained an indulgence from urban . for all those who should attend it ; and a rich and magnificent altar was erected , over which the image was to be placed : and banners were made with this inscription , in nomine mariae omne genu flectatur , &c. after which on may . the procession was performed with all imaginable pomp , and kept for eight dayes together : and yet after all this , one maxwel , a learned scotchman shewed in a discourse presented to isabella , that upon the best enquiry he could make , this famous image was a meer imposture , and a trick of a crafty merchant to procure some advantage to himself by it ; but the poor man was imprisoned for this discovery , and forced to make a publick recantation : and the worship of this image was advanced , and a solemn supplication , and procession with it observed every year ; as the same author informs us , and the confraternity of the slaves of the b. virgin highly promoted by it . several other solemn processions are related by him , as of b. maria de remediis , b. maria de victoriâ , with the popes bulls for establishing the society of slaves of the b. virgin ; but these are enough to shew , that the roman church in its constant , and allowed practises , doth not come behind old heathen rome , in this part of the worship given to images . chap. iii. of the sense of the second commandment . having endeavoured , with so much care , to give a just and true account of the controversie between us , as to the worship of images , and therein shewed from the doctrine and practice of the roman church ; . that they set up images in churches over altars , purposely for worship . . that they consecrate those images with solemn prayers for that purpose . . that they use all the rites of worship to them which the heathen idolaters used to their images , such as bowings , prostrations , lights , incense , and praying . . that they make solemn processions in honour of images , carrying them with as much pomp and ceremony as ever the heathens did their idols ; the question now is , whether these acts of worship towards images were unlawful only to heathens and iews ; but are become lawful to christians ? but if these acts of worship be now equally unlawful to us , as to them , then christians performing them , are liable to the same charge that the iews and heathens were ; and if the scripture calls that idolatry in them , it must be so in christians too , as much as murder , or theft , or adultery is the same in all , for the words of the law of god makes no more difference as to one , than as to the other . we are therefore to enquire on what account the sense of this law is supposed to be consistent with the practice of the same things among christians , which were utterly forbidden by it to iews and heathens : the words of the law are these , thou shalt not make to thy self any graven image , nor the likeness of any thing which is in heaven above , or in the earth beneath , or in the waters under the earth ; thou shalt not bow down to them , nor worship them ; for i the lord thy god am a iealous god , &c. my adversary t. g. denies , that god herein did forbid himself to be worshipped by a crucifix , or such like sacred image ; and he asserts , that the design of the law is only to forbid the worship of idols . the first part , he saith , toucheth not the worship of images , nor of god himself by them , but only the making them ; the second forbids indeed in express terms to bow our selves down to the images themselves , but speaks not one word of the lawfulness or unlawfulness of worshipping god himself by them . to bow our selves down to the images themselves , without any relation to god , is by the concession of all to worship them instead of god ; the iews we know did worship god by bowing down before the ark and the cherubims , and yet they did not worship them instead of god ; therefore , he asserts , that by image an idol is to be understood , and that by idol such an image as is made to represent for worship a figment that hath no real being ; and by similitude , an image or resemblance of some real thing , but falsely imagined to be a god. this is the sense which t. g. gives of the second commandment . but if i can make it appear , . that there is no reason to take the word he translates idol here , for the representation of a meer figment set up for worship , and that if it were so taken , it would not excuse them . . that the worship of god before the ark and the cherubims was of a different nature from the worship of images here forbidden , and that the sense of the law doth exclude all worship of images ; then this interpretation of t. g. will appear to be very false and groundless . . that there is no reason to understand , what we render image , of such an idol as represents a meer figment set up for worship . if there were any colour of reason for such an acception of the word idol here , it must either be , . from the natural importance of the word ; or , . from the use of it in scripture ; or . from the consent of the fathers , or . from some definition of the church . but i shall shew that there is no ground for affixing this sense to the commandment from any one of these . . not from the natural importance of the word . he that reads such an express prohibition in a divine law , of something so displeasing to god , that he annexes a very severe sanction to it , had need be very well satisfied about the sense he gives to the words of it , lest he incurr the wrath of god , and be found a perverter of his law. if a man should reject all humane authority , because the first commandment saith , thou shalt have no other elohim besides me ; but in scripture , magistrates and iudges are called elohim , therefore it is unlawful to own any civil magistrates ; he would have much more to say than t. g. and his brethren have in restraining the sense of the law about images to such idols as are only representations of imaginary beings . for the original word hath no manner of tendency that way , it signifying any thing that is carved or cut out of wood or stone ; and as i told t. g. before , it is no less than forty several times rendred by the lxx . by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and but thrice by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and which is very observable , although exod. . . they render it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , yet in the repetition of the law , deut. . . the alexandrian ms. hath it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and deut. . . in some copies of the lxx . the same word is translated 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and isaiah . . they translate it by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is properly an image , and the vulgar latin it self useth idolum , sculptile , and imago ( isa. . , , . ) all to express the same thing . to this t. g. replyes , that the lxx . generally translating it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , had some particular reason to render it idol here ; and because this is a word of stricter signification , it ought to regulate the larger ; and in the other places , he saith , there is still some term or clause restraining the words to such a graven thing or image , as is made to be compared with god or to be the object of divine worship , that is , to be an idol . then it seems a graven image when it is made the object of divine worship becomes an idol in t. g's sense ; and yet an idol in the commandment is the representation of a meer figment ; but might not that be the sense of an idol in this place , which he grants is meant in another ? where the words are express concerning the representation of god , as in isaiah . . and if he allows this to be the meaning of an idol in the commandment , i will grant that the lxx had a particular reason to render pesel by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here . for aquinas well observes , that this commandment doth not forbid the making any sculpture or similitude , sed facere adorandam , to make it for worship ; because it follows , thou shalt not fall down to them and worship them . and montanus expresses the sense of the commandment after this manner ; simulathrum divinum nullo pacto conflato . signa cultûs causa ne facito ; and nicolaus faber ( both learned men of the roman church . ) sculptilibus nè flecte genu , pictaeve tabellae . and again , non pictum sculptúmve puta venerabile quidquam . if this be t. g's sense of an idol , i freely yield to him that the lxx . had very good reason so to render pesel in this place , where it is supposed to be an object of divine worship . but how can this agree with what t. g. saith , that the law speaks not one word of the unlawfulness of worshipping god himself by an image ? for doth not the law condemn the worship of an idol ? and doth not t. g. say , that an image when it is made an object of divine worship becomes an idol ? and doth it not then follow that the law in express terms doth condemn the worship of god by such an image ? nay , is it not the self-same t. g. that saith , that the making such images as are conceived to be proper likenesses or representations of the divinity , is against the nature and unalterable law of god ? but what law of god is there that doth forbid such images , if it be not this ? and if this law doth forbid such images , then the signification of an idol is not here to be taken for the representation of a figment , but of the greatest and most real being in the world. have not i now far better reason to return his own words upon him , such frequent self contradictions are the natural consequences of a discourse not grounded upon truth ; and although the reader may think i take delight to discover them in my adversary , yet i can assure him it is a much greater grief to me to see so subtle a wit so often intangled in them ? but it may be t. g. thinks to escape by saying , that when he saith an image being made the object of divine worship is an idol , he doth not understand it of an image of god , but when the image it self is taken for god ; which evasion can do him no service ; for , . he grants that images which are made for likenesses of god are condemned by the law of god , and that they are an infinite disparagement to the divine nature . . i have at large shewed that in the roman church , images of god and christ are made the objects of divine worship . and . that the very heathens did not take the images themselves for gods. . the place he answers , isa. . . doth imply that the images of the divinity are therefore condemned , because nothing can be made like unto god. but of that afterwards . let us then suppose that the lxx . had particular reason to render pesel by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the commandment , yet what is this , to the representation of a meer figment for worship ? doth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so properly , so naturally , so necessarily signifie a figment , that it cannot be taken in any other sense ? i see t. g. makes only use of good catholick lexicons ( such a one as that called catholicon which erasmus is so pleasant with ) that assure him what the sense of a word must be in spight of all use of it by prophane and heretical authors : thus simulachrum must signifie only heathen images , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a sphinx , a triton , or centaure ; and why so ? did it alwaies signifie so ? did all greek authors use it only in that sense ? doth the etymology of it imply it ? no , none of all these : what then is the reason that a word should be so restrained against the former and common acception of it ? the reason is very plain ; for if it be taken for the representation of real beings , then for all that we know , the image of the trinity , or of the b. virgin , or of any other worshipped in the roman church may prove idols ; and therefore this must be the sense , because the church of rome cannot be guilty of idolatry . this is the real truth of the case , but it is too great truth to be owned . only bellarmin ( who often speaks freelier than the rest ) confesses , their design herein is to shew that the images worshipped in the church of rome cannot be idols , because they are representations of real beings . a very miserable shift ! as will appear by the examination of it . let us therefore see whether there be any pretence from the use and importance of the word , for restraining the sense of an idol , to an imaginary representation . and i am so far from t. g's opinion , that by the best enquiry i can make , the proper signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is , a representation of something that really is . so hesychius interprets it by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and the old greek and latin glossaries render 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and simulachrum by each other ( and notwithstanding t. g's severity against me for translating simulachra images , i can make it appear from some of the most authentick writers of the roman church , that they do not scruple calling such images as they worship simulacra , i leave t. g. then to judge whether they be not idols too ) isidore makes idolum to be properly simulachrum quod humana effigie factum & consecratum est : an image made and consecrated in the figure of a man : as plutarch calls the image of sylla 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and porphyrie in the beginning of the life of plotinus , when amelius desired a picture of him , he answered , is it not enough to carry such an idolum about me , but i must leave 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an image of an image ? so we find idolum used in the chaldaick oracles , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , where psellus observes , that according to the platonists , the mind is said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the image of god ; and the rational soul , the image of the mind , and the irrational , the image of the rational ; and nature of the irrational soul ; and the body of the image of nature ; and matter of the body . but isidore applying idolum to an ecclesiastical sense , supposeth not only representation , but consecration to be necessary to it ; wherein he follows tertullian , who speaking of the created beings that were worshipped , saith , eorum imagines idola ; imaginum consecratio idololatria : their images were idols , and the consecration of them is idolatry : and a little before , he saith , that all service of an idol is idolatry , and every representation is an idol ; omnis forma vel formula idolum se dici exposcit ; for , saith he , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifies a form or representation of a thing . or as the greek etymologist thinks it comes immediately from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to resemble . among the philosophers it was taken for the image of things conveyed to our sight , so diogenes laertius saith , that democritus held vision to be performed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by the incursion of images ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith plutarch ; empedocles saith he , joyned raies to the images , ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : ) and democritus and epicurus said that reflection in a glass was performed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by the subsistence of the images . cicero , lucretius , and s. augustin render these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by imagines ; catius the epicurean called them spectra ; macrobius simulacra ; but all of them understood the most proper representations of things to our sight ; which epicurus was so far from thinking that they represented things that were not , that he made them infallible criteria of the truth of things . the poets , and some other authors made use of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to signifie spectres and apparitions ; but still they supposed these to be the representations of some real beings ; so homer calls the soul of elpenor that appeared to ulysses 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; but eustathius there observes , that these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were exactly like the persons they represented as to age , stature , habit , and every thing : and so homer himself expresses it , saying that apollo made an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a representation of aeneas , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so in another place speaking of minerva's making a representation of iphthima , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . by which we see that the very poetical use of the word , for a spectre , doth imply an exact resemblance to some real being which it represents : from whence then hath this signification of an idol come into the roman church , that it must signifie a representation of something that is not ? but from whenceoever it comes , we are sure it is neither from the natural importance , nor the use of the word among greek authors . . not from the use of it in scripture . the author of the book of wisdom gives this account of the beginning of the worship of idols , viz. that fathers having lost their children , made images of them , and appointed solemnities to be kept before them , as if they were gods ; then by degrees , princes passed these things into laws , and made men to worship graven images : and thus either out of affection or flattery the worship of idols began : where it is observable , that he makes the representation of persons , that were really in being , to have been the first idols : and he distinguishes the bringing in of idols from the worship of the elements , or heavenly bodies ; and he thinks these much more excusable than those who worship the work of mens hands ; the folly of which he there elegantly describes ; but he still supposes these idols to have the resemblance either of man or some living creature . to the same purpose diophantus the lacedemonian in fulgentius , saith , that syrophanes the egyptian , being greatly afflicted for the loss of his son made an image of him , and all his servants to please him did what they could to adorn this image , and some when they had offended ran to it as a sanctuary ; from hence , saith he , came the worship of idols . and eutychius gives the like account of the original of idols , that when a great man was dead , they set up his image on his sepulchre ; from whence the world was filled with idols , i.e. with images of men , women , and children : this he thinks began among the chaldeans and egyptians ; but herodotus saies the egyptians were the first who made images of their gods : lucian , that they borrowed this custom from the assyrians . epiphanius makes the beginning of idolatry to be in the time of seruch ; but he saith , that it went no farther than to pictures in his time ; and came to images and statues in the time of nahor . cedrenus saith , that seruch and his companions made statues for the honour of those who had done any famous action ; which their posterity misunderstanding , worshipped them as gods. thus far we find that the first idols that are supposed to have been in the world , were the representations of things that had real beings . the only people that could be suspected to be meant in scripture as those who had such idols as were representations of what had no real beings , must be the phoenicians and egyptians : who besides the worship of beasts , and the images of them , had many extravagant images . sanchoniathon saith , taautus made the images in phoenicia with wings , saturn with four , and the rest of the gods with two . and dagon , and atergatis or derceto , is supposed to be an image , whereof the upper part is of humane shape , and the lower of a fish ; among the egyptians , one of their images had the face of a ram , and another of a dog , &c. if these be the idols t.g. thinks are prohibited in the second commandment , i desire him to consider , . whether the images of humane shape were not prohibited by the law equally with these ? or whether it were lawful to worship such images as did represent real beings in that manner , that it was unlawful to worship those images that were only chimaera's and fancies of mens brains ? if not , this distinction serves to no purpose at all . to make this more plain , i ask t. g. whether it were unlawful to worship god among the egyptians under the representation of an image with the body of a man , and the head of a hawk , which was a representation of something that had no real being just like it ; but it was lawful to worship him with the image of a man , as eusebius saith , that oneph or the creator of the world was worshipped under such a representation among them ? it is certain , that both these sorts of images were among the egyptians , and according to t. g.'s notion , one of these was an idol , and the other not . but is it possible for men of common understandings , to suppose that god by the words of the law hath forbidden the one , and not the other ; when both were intended to represent the same being ? but according to this sense , the inhabitants of thebais , of whom plutarch saith , that they only worshipped oneph the immortal god , or the creator under the image of a man , were altogether as innocent , as those in the roman church , who worship god under a like representation . and can it enter into t. g.'s head , that god should , notwithstanding all the words of this commandment , allow such a kind of worship of images as was received among the egyptians ? but if this were condemned in them , then if the second commandment be in force , the like worship must be condemned in the church of rome . . that there is a distinction to be made between such images as have no real resemblance in nature , and such images which represent that which hath no real being ; for although the phoenician and egyptian images had nothing in nature which answered to their figure , yet there might be something which answered their representation , i. e. they were only symbolical images , and the nature of those symbols being understood , there was no difference as to matter of worship between these and other images . as for instance , a sphinx is one of those images which t. g. would have to be understood for an idol in the second commandment ; supposing then that i allow him ( as a sphinx was painted among the egyptians with wings , and the face a man , and the body of a lion ) that it was the representation of something that had no real being agreeable to it ; yet clemens alexandrinus saith , that their design was to represent hereby that god was both to be loved and feared ; now this image did symbolically represent a real object of worship ; and therefore could be no idol even in t. g.'s sense . so kircher saith , one of the chief and most common images of the egyptians was a winged globe with a serpent passing through the middle of it ; by the globe , saith he , they represented the divine nature , by the serpent , the spreading of life , and by the wings , the spirit of the world. here is an image that hath no real being correspondent to it , and yet it represents the infinite nature , and power , and goodness of god : sometimes , saith he , they represented providence by a scepter with a dogs head within a semicircle ; by which , and innumerable other waies they represented the hidden mysteries of the divine being : and they thought this symbolical way most pleasing to god ; and was certainly farthest from that danger which t. g. thinks to be most considerable in images , viz. making men anthropomorphites . to avoid which , the egyptians generally mixed the figures of men and beasts together , not so much to shew the communion of nature , as porphyrie imagines , as that these were meer symbolical images , and not intended for any proper likenesses , and therefore according to t. g.'s principles , those which he calls idols , were more innocent , than those which he calls images ; for the one might bring men to erroneous conceits of the deity ; but the other being symbolical were not apt to do it . plutarch saith , that when they represented mercury by the image of a man , with the head of a dog , they only intended thereby to represent care , watchfulness , and wisdom : and that they represented osiris by a scepter with an eye in it , by a hawk , and by the figure of a man ; now by osiris , he tells us , they meant the most powerful god , and so doth apuleius ; and tacitus saith , the same god which was called jove among others , was called osiris by them . these images , and many other of very strange shapes , with a mixture of very different forms , are supposed , in the mensa isiaca , and the egyptian obelisks , to represent the most true and perfect being in regard of his nature and production of things ; as athanas. kircher hath endeavoured at large to shew . if therefore the egyptians did make such symbolical figures with respect to the most real being ; and yet these images were idols properly so called : then it follows , that some representations of the true god are idols , and condemned in the second commandment . . the scripture uses the word idol for the representation of all sorts of things which are made the objects of worship . thus in the first place the lxx . makes use of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it is taken for the teraphim of laban , gen. . , , . which are supposed to be of humane shape ; not only from the general opinion of jewish writers ; but because of the mistake of the teraphim for david , sam. . . the images of baal are called idols , chron. . . jer. . and what the lxx . render , kings . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the images of baal ; in the parallel place , chron. . . they express by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the idols of baal . whether by baal be understood the assyrian belus , or the phoenician beel samen , i. e. whether a representation of a man , or of the sun , we are sure this was an image of a real being , and yet the lxx . call it an idol . idols are joyned with molten gods by the lxx . levit. . . i. e. what ever images are set up for divine worship : and all the gods of the heathen are said to be idols , chron. . . but they were not all meer figments of mens brains , being either dead men that were worshipped ( as s. hierome saith , by the idols of the heathens we understand imagines mortuorum the representations of dead men ) or the works of the creation , especially the heavenly bodies , which was the most early and the most common idolatry of the eastern parts , and most frequently condemned in scripture . if it be said , that although they had real beings , yet their deities were fictitious , i answer , . that is not to the purpose ; for the question is , whether the proper signification of an idol be the representation of meer imaginary beings , sphinxes , tritons , centaures ? but what a ridiculous answer is this to that question , to say that although their being real , yet their deity is fictitious ? for this is to grant , that idols are not representations of imaginary beings , but of imaginary deities : which i readily grant . . this will equally hold against all representations of created beings that have divine worship given to them ; for by giving them any part of divine worship they are so far made gods ; but since they are not truly so , they are still but the representations of imaginary deities , although they be of real saints , or angels . in which sense the scripture calls them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nothings , and vanities , and s. paul saith , that an idol is nothing in the world ; not because it represented that which was not ; but because neither the image nor the thing represented were any real deity . . the far greatest part of the idols expressly mentioned in scripture were the representations of real beings : not only that the things had subsistence which were represented by them , but that the very images were of some creatures existing in the world . lyra saith , that moloch was in the fashion of a man ; and so benjamin tudelensis supposes , when he saith , that two femal images stood of either side of him . kircher shews , from baal aruch , that asima was worshipped in the form of a goat : and from other jewish authors , that nibcas had the figure of a dog , thartak of an ass , adramelech of a mule , and anamelech of a horse ; bel and nebo of serpents and beasts ; succoth benoth of a hen and chickens ; astaroth of sheep . will t. g. say that these were not idols , because they were images of real beings ? if he doth , he must excuse the grossest idolatry condemned in scripture ; if he doth not , he must then confess , that this is not the notion of an idol in the sense of scripture , viz. a representation of what hath no existence , but in the imagination , as sphinxes , tritons , centaures , and the like . . but t. g. would have us believe , that this is the sense of the fathers ; for he quotes origen and theodoret for this interpretation of the second commandment . it is well known that origen had a great many of t. g.'s idols in his head , viz. imaginations of things that were not ; and therefore it is ill fixing upon an interpretation of scripture of which he was the first author . but i have proved at large from the unanimous consent of the fathers in charging the arians with idolatry , and the gnosticks in worshipping the images of christ with divine honours , that this could not be their sense . for if this were the notion of an idol , to represent what hath no existence , neither the arians nor the gnosticks could be accused of worshipping an idol ; but the fathers do in express terms call christ an idol , if he had divine worship given him , and yet were not god. and it is farther observable , ( . ) that the second council of nice confesses , that the arrians were justly condemned for idolatry , not only by one or two fathers , but by the catholick church ; from whence it is evident , that the catholick church did declare that t. g.'s sense of an idol is false . ( . ) that when the fathers repeat the second commandment , instead of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they use other words , which they would never have done , if they had thought there had been any peculiar importance of the word idol in that place different from image . iustin martyr in his dialogue with trypho the iew , repeats the words of the law thus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , thou shalt not make any image or similitude . clemens alex. makes the thing forbidden to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to worship graven images ; and the thing required to be , not to make 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , either a graven or a molten image . and even origen himself , layes so little weight on his observation about 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that when he gives an account of this law in his books against celsus , he never mentions it , but useth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and saith , the meaning of the law was to forbid any kind of images . tertullian saith , that god hereby did forbid all kind of similitude , quanto magis imaginis suae , how much more any image of himself : and elsewhere he makes an idol and an image the same thing ; and in another place , that god did prohibit all similitudes to prevent any occasion of idolatry ; for , he adds , thou shalt not bow down to them nor worship them . therefore , saith he , the brazen serpent was not against the law , being not for worship , but for a remedy ; nor the cherubim , being meerly ornaments , and therefore not falling under the reason of the law , and afterwards he reckons up the several terms of the law , by images , statues and similitudes . s. cyprian interprets the meaning of the word idols in the commandment , when he saith , they are such as the psalmist speaks of , that have mouths and speak not , &c. which is certainly meant of images of humane shape ; and in another place , he saith , the heathen idols were made , ad defunctorum vultus per imaginem detinendos : to preserve the countenances of the dead by images : which are almost the same words with those of minucius felix speaking of the same subject , while they desired , saith he , defunctos reges in imaginibus videre , to see their princes images and to retain their memories in their statues , that which at first was intended for their comfort , became an object of worship . so lactantius saith , that their simulachra , their idols , in t. g's sense , were either the monuments of the dead , or of the absent ; and he makes the sense of the law to be nihil colendum esse quod oculis mortalibus cernitur , nothing to be worshipped that can be seen . s. augustin giving the sense of this commandment saith , that therein any similitude of god is forbidden to be worshipped ; and therefore surely not the meer figments of mens brains , or representations of sphinxes , and tritons , and centaurs . ( . ) that those very persons who put that sense upon the word idol , do yet make the sense of the commandment to be against the practice of the roman church . for both origen and theodoret make it unlawful by the force of this commandment , to perform any external act of worship towards any representation whatsoever : and the difference they both put between worship and service is , that the latter is that of the mind , and the former of the body ; but both , they say , are here forbidden ; and therefore i cannot imagine what comfort t. g. can have in supposing their images are not forbidden under the name of idols , if they be forbidden under the name of similitudes , and it be as unlawful to worship them under one name as under the other ? our quarrel is not with them , meerly on the account of the word idolatry ; but it is on the account of their worships being contrary to the express law of god ; and whether it be forbidden under the name of idol , or similitude , it is all one to us , as long as the worship they practise , is as plainly against the sense of this commandment , as perjury , adultery , or theft is against the other commandments : and that even in the opinion of origen and theodoret themselves . besides , if we look into the sense of these two authors , we shall find their meaning was not , as t. g. imagines , to make those only idols that were made to represent fictions of the brain ; but to shew that god had forbidden all sorts of images , symbolical as well as others . for , saith origen , moses being skilled in all the wisdom of the aegyptians ; did forbid those things which are used in their secret and hidden mysteries ; i. e. their symbolical and hieroglyphical representations : and theodoret particularly mentions the aegyptian images , with the face of a dog , and the head of an ox ; whereby it is plain that they thought moses by this law intended to forbid all manner of representations of things in order to worship , whether it were by hieroglyphicks , or by proper similitudes . so that , neither origen , nor theodoret by this interpretation do give the least countenance to the practice of the roman church . . i shall in the last place shew , that this interpretation of the term idol is overthrown by the most learned persons of the roman church ; who do confess that the images of real beings may become idols . and that in these following cases , . when proper latria is given to an image ; that is truly idolatry , saith bellarmin , when proper latria is given to any thing besides god ; and it is not only idolatry when an idol is worshipped without god , but when an idol is worshipped together with god ; and from hence he concludes , that no image ought to be worshipped with proper latria ; which conclusion cannot be of any force , unless such an image becomes an idol : but he goes farther , and saith , that those who worshipped an image of christ with divine honours , although it be for the sake of christ , and not of the image , did commit idolatry ; for , saith he , although a man pretends to give these honours for the sake of god or christ , yet in as much as he gives divine honours to them , he doth really give it for themselves , although he denies it in words , ( which is a very fair confession ) and from hence those were condemned as hereticks , who gave divine worship to the image of christ ; as appears by irenaeus , epiphanius , s. augustin , and damascen . according to which concession , the dispute cannot any longer be , whether the images of christ or the saints be idols or no , if we can prove that divine honours are given to them by the doctrine and practice of the roman church . and even t. g. himself saith , is not the giving divine worship to a creature the same as to make it a false god ? and is it not heathen idolatry to worship a false god ? from whence it follows , that it is the worship makes any thing an idol , and not the representation of an imaginary being . . when images are worshipped as true representations of the divine nature . so sanders expresly ; he that goes about to represent the invisible nature of god by an image , sins grievously and makes an idol ; and he that proposes such an image for worship commits idolatry : but such an image is no representation of a meer figment of mens brains ; but a vain endeavour to set forth the most perfect being . if he had only said it had been a foolish and vain attempt , he had only expressed the impossibility of the thing ; but when he makes such an image an idol when it is proposed for worship , he doth imply , that an imperfect representation of an infinite nature when it is worshipped becomes an idol . this is not to be avoided by saying , that such an image is a false representation : for it is no otherwise false than every image of a man is so ; for no image can represent the invisible nature of a man. and it adds much force to this , that the author of the greek excerpta about the use of images , from the nicene council and the writers of that time , saith , that the design of the second commandment is against making any images of god ; which he looks on not only as an absurd but a very wicked practice ; and which , he saith , was then common among the aegyptians . . when an image is worshipped for the sake of any sanctity , vertue , or divinity abiding in it . whosoever doth so , saith iacobus almain , is an idolater ; and so much is implyed in the council of trent it self ; when it declares , that no worship is to be given to an image on any such account ; if so , then the doing it is a thing forbidden and unlawful ; and not only so , but they looked on this as the certain way of putting a difference between idolatry and their worship ; but men may suppose sanctity , vertue , and divinity to be in an image of a real being ; and therefore such an image may be properly an idol : and so vasquez confesses that this is idolatry to give worship , although it be inferiour , to any inanimate being ( as an image is ) for the sake of any thing belonging to it , or inherent in it . thus i have shewed that there is no pretence to excuse the worship of images from being idolatry and a breach of the second commandment , because an idol is only a representation , of only imaginary beings , as t. g. saith , such as sphinxes , tritons , centaurs or the like . . i now come to shew more particularly what the sense of the law is , by considering what t. g. saith in answer to what i had formerly said about it : the original question between us , was , whether god by this law hath forbidden the giving any worship to himself by an image ? no , saith t. g. he hath not ; but what he forbids there is only giving his worship to idols . to resolve this question , being about the sense of a law , i proposed three wayes . . from the terms in which the law is expressed . . from the reason annexed to it . . from the judgement of the law-giver himself . but before t. g. comes to the handling of these , he lays down some arguments of his own to shew , that god did not intend by this law , to forbid the worshipping of himself by an image , but only the worship of idols . . because the iews did worship god by bowing down before the ark and the cherubim . . because s. austin makes this commandment to be only an explication of the first . to these i shall give a distinct answer . . t. g. on all occasions , lays great weight on the worshipping of god before the ark and the cherubims : which he makes to be the parallel of their worshipping god by bowing or kneeling before a crucifix ; to which instance i had given this answer , . that the iews only directed their worship towards the place where god had promised to be signally present among them ; which signifies no more to the worship of images , than our lifting our eyes to heaven doth when we pray ; because god is more especially present there . . that though the cherubims were there , yet they were alwayes hid from the sight of the people , the high-priest himself going into the holy of holies but once a year ; and that the cherubims were no representations of god , but his throne was between them on the mercy seat ; but that they were hieroglyphical figures of gods own appointing , which the iews know no more than we do : which are plain arguments they were never intended for objects of worship , for then they must not have been meer appendices to another thing , but would have been publickly exposed as the images are in the roman churches , and their form as well known as any of the b. virgin. but t. g. still insists upon it , that the reverence which the iews shewed to the ark and cherubims , was of the same nature with the worship they give to images ; and he thinks , i have not answered the argument he brought for it . therefore to give him all reasonable satisfaction , i shall . compare their worship of images and these together . . examine all the colour of argument he produces for the worship of these among the iews . . for comparing their worship of images , with the iews worshipping god before the ark and the cherubims . as to their worship of images , i need only repeat ; . that they are publickly set up and exposed for worship in their churches , and over their altars . . that they are consecrated for this end . . that the people in their devotions bow to them , kneel and pray before them with all expressions of reverence . . that the councils of nice and trent have decreed that worship is to be given to them on the account of their representation ; because the honour given to them passes to the exemplar . that the images themselves on the account of their representation are a proper object of inferiour worship , and that considered together with the exemplar they make up one entire object of supreme worship ; in these their divines generally agree , and condemn the opinion of those who say , that they are only to worship the exemplar before the image ; as contrary to the decrees of councils . but if the ark and cherubims were neither set up , nor exposed , nor consecrated as objects of worship ; if the people of the iews never thought them to be so , nor worshipped them as such ; if the utmost were only that , which the divines of the roman church condemn , viz. making them only a circumstance and not an object of worship , then i hope the difference will appear so great that t. g. himself may be ashamed of insisting so much on so weak a parallel . in external acts of worship these two things are to be distinguished , ( . ) the object of worship , or the thing to which that worship is given . ( . ) the local circumstance of expressing that worship towards that object . that there is a real difference between the object and local circumstance of worship , by our lifting up our hands and eyes towards heaven when we worship god ; but no man that understands our religion can say , that we worship the heavens , but only god as present in them ; wherefore god is the object , and looking up to heaven , barely the circumstance . when we praise any person for some excellency in him , if he be present , we naturally turn our face towards him , to let others by that circumstance understand , of whom we speak ; but which way soever we looked , the same person would be the object of our praise ; when we do this at anothers mentioning his name , no man of common understanding will say , that the praise is directed to the very name of the person ; and if a man makes a panegyrick upon another , and reads it out of a book , no one suspects that his praise is therefore directed to his book . thus it is in the acts of worship , the object is that being to which the worship is directed ; but because external acts must have some local circumstances , by the position of our countenances , and the tendency of our posture either towards heaven , or towards some place as the more immediate symbol of a divine presence , the difference is apparent between such a direction of the act towards a place , and the direction of it towards an object , in case it can be made appear that may be a place of worship , which is not an object of it . for which we must consider , ( . ) that the object of worship is that to which the worship is given either for its own sake , or for the sake of that which it represents ; but a local circumstance doth only circumscribe the material act of worship within certain bounds . and the proper object of worship is a person , either really present , or represented as present . the idolaters who worshipped their images as gods ( if at least any considerable number of them ever did so ) it was upon this account , that they supposed some spirit to be incorporated in the image , and so to make together with it a person fit to receive worship . those who worshipped the elements , or heavenly bodies , did it not on the account of the matter whereof they were made ; but of those spirits which they believed to rule over those things they worshipped , as i have already shewed in the general discourse . but it is not necessary in order to an object of worship , that the person be really present ; for if men by imagination do suppose him present as represented by an image , that makes those who worship that image perform the very same acts , as if he were actually present ; and in the church of rome they do make this representation by an image , a sufficient ground for making that an object of worship ; which we say is the very thing forbidden in the second commandment , viz. that any image should be worshipped on the account of what it represents ; and therefore it forbids all kind of representations to be worshipped by men : because an image seems to have such a relation to the thing it represents , that they may pretend they give worship to it on another account than meerly its matter and form , viz. the thing represented by it . thus when the reason of the worship of images is drawn from the exemplar , as it is both in the councils of nice and trent , they thereby shew , that they do make the image a true object of worship , although the reason of it be drawn from the person represented . but suppose men worship god towards the west , as the iews did , or towards the east , as the christians did ; what is there in this that doth represent god to us ? what is there that we fix our worship upon , but only himself ; god hath no where forbidden men to worship him towards the place of his presence ; for even our saviour hath bid us pray , our father which art in heaven ; and supposing god had promised a more peculiar presence in his holy temple , it was as lawful to worship god towards that , as towards heaven ; but that which god hath strictly forbidden , is the worshipping of any thing on the account of the representation either of himself , or of his creatures ; for this doth suppose that image to be made the object of worship , although it be on the account of what it represents . . supposing the same external acts to be performed towards an image , and towards a place of gods particular presence ; yet the case is not alike in both these , if those who do them , declare they do them not with a design to worship that place . for to the making any thing an object of worship , there must be some ground to believe that they intend to worship it , either from the nature of their actions , or the doctrine and practice of the church they live in ; but in case it be expressly declared , that what they do , is only intended as a local circumstance , there is no ground to charge them with making it an object of worship . thus those in the church of rome , who declare that they do not worship the image , but only worship god before an image , although they perform the same external acts of worship , yet are condemed of heresie , because hereby they declare they do not give worship to images , which is contrary to the decrees of their councils : much more certainly will those be condemned by them who declare it unlawful to worship any thing on the account of representation ; and that they do only determine the acts of outward worship towards a particular place , without any intention to worship that place , but only to worship god that way . and this was the case of the iews as to the worshipping of images , and of god towards the holy of holies ; they declared it utterly unlawful to do one because god had strictly forbidden it ; and they though it as lawful to do the other , because he allowed the practice of it : and it was sufficiently known among the people of the iews , that they had no intention to worship either the ark or the cherubims . . where there is only a local circumstance of worship , the same thing would be worshipped , supposing that circumstance changed ; but where any thing is an object of worship , that being changed , the same thing is not worshipped . this makes the difference between these two easie , and intelligible by all . if a iew should worship towards the east , or christians towards the west , the same object of their worship continues still ; for they worship the same god both waies ; but if the image of christ or the b. virgin be taken away from the altar , a papist cannot be said to worship the same thing there , that he did before . which plainly shews , that there is a real difference between these two ; which is of great moment to clear the iewish worship of god towards his holy place , and to shew how different it was from the worship of images . . but t. g. pretends to bring clear scripture for the iews worshipping the ark ; adore ye the foot-stool of god , for it is holy , psal. . . so all the ancient fathers , he saith , read it without scruple ; and s. hierome , he saith , confirms it . and why was it placed in the holy of holies , and why were the people commanded to adore , or bow down before it , but to testifie their reverence to it ? to this i answer , . one might venture odds against t. g. that when he quotes all the fathers for him , he hath very few of his side : nothing less will content him here than all the fathers reading it without scruple , for it is holy , when lorinus saith , that all the greek fathers , not one dissenting that he had seen , read it , for he is holy : and among the latins he confesses , that s. hierome and s. augustine both read it so ; for , saith s. augustine , quis sanctus est in cujus honore ador as scabellum pedum ejus ? genebrard acknowledges likewise , that s. hierome translates it so , and suarez yields that not only the greek , but s. augustine and s. hierome read it , for he is holy . . those words do not imply , that the iews did make the ark the object of their worship ; for the chaldee paraphrast renders them , worship him in his sanctuary ; and the last verse of the psalm , where the same sense is repeated , interprets this , worship at his holy hill , for the lord our god is holy : where , the holy mountain is the same with the foot stool before mentioned : and so muis confesses , who saith withal , that by the phrase of worshipping his foot-stool , no more is meant than worshipping god at his foot-stool : and the sanctuary , he saith , is called gods foot-stool , not only by the chaldee paraphrast and kimchi , but lament . . . and so lyra interprets it , ante scabellum pedum ejus : worship before his footstool : or worship at his footstool , as it is psalm . . and it would be very strange , if the psalmist should here propose the footstool for an object of worship to them , when the design of the whole psalm is to call all nations to the worship of god , as sitting between the cherubims , psal. . . i. e. in his throne which is surely different from his footstool . i will not contend with suarez about the sense of the footstool of god here mentioned , ( although he confesses that basil and vatablus understand the temple by it : ) but i will yield him that the ark is most probably understood by it , because of his sitting between the cherubims being mentioned before ; in which respect the ark may properly be called his footstool . for the cherubims were the mercabah , or the divine chariot , and so called , chron. . . where the vulgar latine renders it quadriga cherubim : in such a chariot pyrrhus ligorius , the famous italian antiquary , saith , the deities were wont to be drawn : and livy , and plutarch take notice of it in camillus as an extraordinary thing that he made use of such a triumphal chariot which had been before looked on as proper to iove the father of gods and men. such a triumphal chariot , i suppose that to have been in the holy of holies , but without any representation of the divine majesty , and this chariot is that we call the cherubim , and the ark was a kind of footstool to the invisible majesty that sate between the cherubims , and there delivered his oracles . now i appeal to the understanding of any reasonable man , whether god being represented as sitting upon his triumphal chariot , without any visible image of him , the worship was there to be performed to the invisible deity , or to the visible chariot and footstool ? which is all one as to ask whether persons approaching to a prince on his throne , are to worship the prince or his footstool , or chair of state ? but lorinus and suarez say , the hebrew particle being added to a word implying worship , doth not denote the place but the object of worship ; which is sufficiently refuted by those two places before mentioned , viz. the last verse of this psalm , and psalm . . . those of the fathers , who understood this expression of the object of worship , do declare by their interpretation that it was not lawful to worship the ark after that manner . therefore lorinus saith , most of the fathers understood it of the humanity of christ , as s. ambrose , s. hierome , s. augustine and others generally after him ; and among the greeks , he reckons s. athanasius , and s. chrysostome . but what need all this running so far from the literal sense , in case they had thought the ark a lawful object of worship ? let s. augustine speak for the rest , the scripture , saith he , elsewhere calls the earth gods footstool ; and doth he bid us worship the earth ? this puts me in a great perplexity ; i dare not worship the earth , lest he damn me who made the heaven and the earth ; and i dare not but worship his footstool , because he bids me do it . in this doubt i turn my self to christ , and from him find the resolution of it ; for his flesh was earth ; and so he runs into a discourse about the adoration due to the flesh of christ , and the sense in which it is to be understood . and elsewhere saith , that the humane nature of christ is no otherwise to be adored than as it is united to the divinity . which plainly shews that he did not think the ark literally understood to be a proper object of worship . but t. g. adds , that s. hierome saith , that the iews did worship or reverence the holy of holies , because there were the cherubims , the ark , &c. it is well he puts in reverence as well as worship , for venerabantur signifies no more than that they had it in great veneration ; and that not only for the sake of the ark and cherubims , but for the pot of manna , and aarons rod ; and doth t. g. think in his conscience , that the iews worshipped these too ? but s. hierom explains himself , when he saith immediately after , that the sepulchre of christ is more venerable than that ; which he interprets by saying , it was a place to be honoured by all . and are these the doughty proofs which t. g. blames me for not vouchsafing an answer to them ? i think he ought to have taken it as a kindness from me . let him now judge whether i have neither scripture , nor father , nor reason to abet me , in saying , that the iews only directed their worship towards the place where god had promised to be signally present among them . as to the worship of the cherubims , all his attempts come only to this , they might be worshipped although they were not seen ; and if it were lawful for the high priest to worship them once a year , it was alwaies lawful ; but i deny that the high priest ever worshipped them ; for he only worshipped the god that sate upon his triumphal chariot ; and their being hid from the sight of the people , was an argument they were not exposed as objects of worship , as images are in the roman church . their being appendices to the throne of god , he saith , was rather a means to increase than diminish the peoples reverence to them . if by reverence he means worship , we may here see an instance of the variety of mens understandings . for no less a man than vasquez , from hence argues , that the cherubims were never intended as an object of worship , because they were only the appendices to another thing ; but a thing is then proposed as an object of worship , when it is set up by it self , and not by way of addition or ornament to another thing : with whom lorinus , azorius , and visorius agree . and even aquinas himself grants , that the seraphim ( he means the cherubim ) were not set up for worship , but only for the sign of some mysterie ; nay , he saith , the iews were expressly forbidden to worship them . thus i hope i have made it appear , how very little the worshipping of god before the ark and the cherubims doth prove towards the lawfulness of the worship of images in the roman church . the second argument of t. g. is , from the judgement of s. augustine , who makes that which we call the second commandment to be only an explication of the first . which i thought so weak and trifling an argument , that i gave a short answer to it in these two particulars , . that s. augustine did not seem constant to that opinion . . that supposing he were , yet it doth not follow that according to his judgement , these words are only against heathen idols , and not against the worship of god by images . here t. g. thinks he hath the bit fast between his teeth , and away he runs , raising a dust to blind the eyes of beholders ; but he must be stopt in his carier , and brought to better reason . i asked t. g. how he was sure this was s. austins constant judgement , since in his latter writings he reckons up the commandments , as others of the fathers had done before him ? upon this he insults , and calls it a new way of answering fathers , and the readiest he ever met with , except it be that of denying them : and if this be allowed , when an express testimony of a father is alledged , there is no more to do , than to ask how he is sure , that the father did not afterwards change his mind ? but , he saith , he is sure he hath his judgement professedly for him in his former writings ; and that i ought to bring better evidence of his being of another mind than i have done . but if i do evidently prove , that s. augustine was of our mind in the main point as to the unlawfulness of the worship of god by images ; then what matter is it , whether it be the first , or second , or third , or fourth commandment , so we are sure it is one of the ten ? and i have already produced sufficient testimonies from him to this purpose ; for doth not s. augustine declare , that it is unlawful to worship god by an image , when , he saith , it were impiety for a christian to set up a corporeal image of god in a temple ; and that they who do it are guilty of the sacriledge condemned by s. paul , of turning the glory of the incorruptible god into an image made like to corruptible man ? doth not st. augustine commend varro for speaking so reproachfully concerning the very manner of worshipping the deity by an image ? and he saith , that if he durst have opposed so old a corruption , he would have both owned the unity of the godhead , et sine simulachro colendum esse censeret , and have thought he ought to be worshipped without an image . doth not s. augustine , when he purposely explains that which he accounts the first commandment , say , that any similitude of god is thereby forbidden to be worshipped ; because no image of god is to be worshipped but what is god himself , i. e. his son ? and can any one speak more expressly our sense than s. augustine here doth ? let not t.g. then boast of his possession of s. augustine , unless it be , as he did lately of all the fathers ; and in truth , the reason is much alike for both . but as to the division of the commandments he is of t. g 's side ; and what is that to our business ? if s. augustine be of our side as to the sense of the commandment , i can allow him to find out something of the mysterie of the trinity in having three commandments of the first table ; and i can be contented with this , that the generality of the fathers were for the other division , and upon more considerable reasons . but t.g. saith , that s. augustine translates this precept , thou shalt not make to thy self any idol , and the sense of the law to be the forbidding the giving the worship of god to idols . one would think by this , s. augustine had no other word but idolum here ; whereas he uses both figmentum and simulachrum , both which words he elsewhere uses about the images of the true god. but this is their common method , if they meet with a word in the fathers that sounds their way , they never stay to consider the sense of it , but presently cry out idolum , idolum ; and then with the man at athens , take all that comes for their own : so doth t. g. boast of the possession of the fathers upon as slight grounds as he did ; and makes up by the strength of imagination what is wanting in the goodness of his title ; if at least imagination can sway him so much against the plain evidence of reason . having thus cleared the way by removing these mighty difficulties which t. g. had laid in it to obstruct our passage , i now come to consider the several methods i proposed for finding out the sense of this law. the first whereof was from the general terms wherein it is expressed , which are of so large and comprehensive a sense as to take in all manner of representations , in order to worship ; and i challenged him to shew where the word temunah which they render similitude as well as we , is ever used in scripture to signifie such an idol as he supposes this law intends . and to what purpose are words of the largest signification put into a law , if the sense be limitted according to the most narrow acceptation of one word mentioned therein ? for there is no kind of image , whether graven or painted , whether of a real or imaginary being , but is comprehended under the signification of the words set down in the law. to this t. g. answers , that how large soever the signification of this word temunah or similitude be when taken by it self , yet in our present case , it is limited by the following words , thou shalt not bow down to them nor serve them , to signifie something which is made to be worshipped as god , that is , to be an idol . and so , by the word idol in the commandment he understands such an image as is made to represent for worship a figment that hath no real being ; and by similitude an image or resemblance of some real thing , but falsely imagined to be god ; but , he saith , it was nothing to the purpose to put the word similitude in its largest meaning , that is , as signifying any image whatsoever though made with respect to the worship of the true god , when god himself commanded the ark and the cherubims to be made with that respect : ( doth he mean to represent the true god ? or to be objects of worship ? which i have already shewed to be false . ) that which i am to prove , he saith , is , that the word similitude is to be taken so here ; whereas , he affirms , that the word similitude is to be restrained to the similitude of false gods : and to make all sure , he interprets similitude only of the representation of false gods , and bowing down to and worshipping that similitude is the worshipping that similitude as god : i. e. taking the likeness to be the thing it self . i cannot blame t. g. for making the thing forbidden in the commandment , if it be possible , more absurd than their practice in the worship of images is ; but , whether he hath made the sense of the law or himself more ridiculous let the reader judge . by similitude , he saith , is here to be understood , only the similitude of false gods , as the sun , moon and stars , and other like things which they worshipped as gods ; this i confess is intelligible and true , although not the full meaning of the commandment ; but what then is , bowing down to and worshipping this similitude ? that is , saith he , to worship this similitude as god : how is that ? is it by believing the similitude to be the thing ? as the image of the sun to be really the sun ? this is absurd enough of all conscience , and they were sottish idolaters indeed that did so . or is it , that they thought there was no other god , besides that similitude ? that were strange indeed , they should think the similitude to be god , and not the thing represented by it . but so the wise pope gregory . interpreted this commandment in his incomparable epistle to leo isaurus ; the emperour tells the pope he durst not allow the worship of images , because of this severe prohibition of any kind of similitude , and he desires him to shew , who it was that since had made it lawful to worship the work of mens hands . the pope for this calls him , an ignoramus , a dull , and insolent fool ; and bids him lay aside his pride and haughtiness , and come and learn of him the meaning of the commandment . and now we expect something becoming an infallible head of the church ; this commandment , saith the pope , was made for the sake of the idolaters who lived in the land of promise , that worshipped living creatures of gold and silver , and wood , and all sorts of creatures and fowls of the aire ; and said , these are our gods , and there is no god besides them ; and for the sake of this workmanship of the devil , god said that we should not worship them ; but there is other workmanship for the honour of god , and this men may worship . exceedingly well spoken ! the mischief is , maimonides saith , there never were such fools in the world to believe there was no other god but their idols ; but what is maimonides his saying to the head of the church ? i am not yet satisfied about t. g's worshipping a similitude as god , and so making it an idol . if it be a god , how is it the similitude of a god ? if it be not , how comes it to be worshipped as god ? what is it the similitude of ? of god ? yes . but it is god it self to him that worships it as god ; and so it is the similitude of it self . so that the similitude here forbidden to be worshipped , is a thing that is like its own self . t. g. in another place saith , the thing forbidden in the commandment , is bowing our selves down to the images themselves , and this by the concession of all is worshipping them instead of god. what is this bowing down to the images themselves ? is it supposing them to be really gods ? then they are not worshipped as similitudes ; and this seems to be his meaning , when he saith , to bow down our selves to the images themselves , without any relation to god , is to worship them instead of god. but i am still to seek for his meaning ; is it bowing down to images themselves , without relation to any other god ? that must suppose that those who do so worship them believe there is no god besides the images , and that were to make god to forbid a thing , that we never read to be practised in the world. or , is it to suppose those images themselves to be objects of worship ? if it be , then all those stand condemned for idolaters who assert that images themselves are to be worshipped . which i have shewed to be the common opinion of their divines , and by them thought to be the decree of the councils for the worship of images . or lastly , is the worshipping images themselves , without relation to the true god , the worshipping them instead of god ? but this is both false , and impertinent . it is false , because they who worship images without relation to the true god , may yet worship them barely as they represent a false god ( as the wisest of the heathens did ) and therefore not as god ; and eusebius saith in general of the heathens , that they did not look on their images as gods : it is impertinent , because by the confession of their own writers ( as i have shewed ) an image that hath relation to the true god may be worshipped as god , when divine worship is given to an image of god or christ. and therefore all this adoe is to no purpose ; for this commandment must then be so understood , as to exclude the worship of the true god by an image . otherwise it cannot be unlawful to give any kind of worship to an image of the true god ; and so the gnosticks were not to blame in the worship they gave to the image of christ , although they stand condemned in all ages of the church for it . if this were unlawful , ( as they all say it is unlawful to sacrifice to an image ) then some kind of worshipping the true god by an image is forbidden by the second commandment . and now let the reader judge , how well t.g. hath acquitted himself in his admirable undertakings , when he saith , with so much confidence , that the second commandment speaks not one word against the worshipping god himself by an image ; which is to charge the whole christian church with folly and ignorance in condemning the carpocratians , for worshipping the image of christ with divine worship ; who saith bellarmin , sine dubio imaginem ejus propter ipsum colebant , without all doubt worshipped the image of christ with relation to him . but still when t. g. is miserably mistaken , the fathers must bear the blame of it . alas poor fathers ! must you bear the load of all his miscarriages ? it is but doing you justice , to vindicate your innocency in this righteous cause . he tells me , that i must prove against these fathers ( viz. origen and theodoret ) and the general sense of the church of christ for so many hundred years , that the word similitude is to be taken in the second commandment for any image made with respect to the worship of god. a very easie undertaking in it self ; but by no means either against those fathers , or the sense of the christian church for many hundred years , which is as plainly on my side in this case , as it is in the articles of the creed ; as may be seen in the foregoing chapters . but t. g. is again unlucky when he pretends to the fathers ; for those two fathers he mentions are point-blank against him in this matter : witness the many citations i there produced out of origen ; wherein , he saith , the christians durst have no images of the deity , because of this commandment ; and that they would rather dye than defile themselves with such an impiety . and even theodoret himself saith , they were forbidden to make any image of god , because they saw no similitude of him : and which is more to t. g. even the nicene council and the great patrons of images for a long time after , did yield that the second commandment did forbid the making or worshipping any representation of god ; as i have already at large proved . if i might advise t. g. i would never have him venture at the fathers again ; but be contented to bear his own burdens ; and out of meer pity to them , not to load them with the imputation of his own infirmities , if not wilful mistakes . to make it appear that the intention of the law was not meerly against the idols of the heathens , i added these words if this had been the meaning of the law , why was it not more plainly expressed ? why were none of the words elsewhere used by way of contempt of the heathen idols here mentioned , as being less liable to ambiguity ? why in so short a comprehension of laws , is this law so much enlarged above what it might have been , if nothing but what he saith , were to be meant by it ? for then the meaning of the two first precepts might have been summed up in very few words , thou shalt have no other gods but me , and thou shalt worship the images of no other gods but me . to all this , which is surely something more than saying , that it is ridiculous to imagine the law means any thing else ; t. g. answers not one word : but instead of that he spends some pages about two similitudes , one of mine , and another quainter of his own ; which must stand or fall according to the reason given for the sense of the law ; and therefore i shall pass them over . only for his desiring me , to make my similitude run on all four , as the beasts mentioned in it ; it is such a piece of wit , that i desire he may enjoy the comfort of it . but he hath not yet done with the word pesel ; which , he saith , the lxx . would never have rendred it here contrary to their custome , idol , without some particular reason for it . what particular reason was there here , more than in the repetition of the commandment , deut. . ? where they translate it by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the alex. m s. and in other copies of the lxx . deut. . . was there not as much reason to have used the same word in those places as in this , since the commandment is the very same ? and for the other places , he mentions , as isaiah . — . , , . i dare leave it to the examination of any man , whether they do not far better prove , that an idol in scripture is an image set up for worship , than that by graven image is meant an heathen idol . this i am certain of , that pet. picherellus an excellent critick , and learned divine in the roman church , was convinced by comparing of these places , that the signification of an idol in the second commandment , is the same with that of a graven image ; and that the using any outward sign of worship before any image is the thing forbidden in this commandment , and that the doing so is that idolatry which god hath threatned so severely to punish : which i beseeth t. g. and those of his church to consider , and repent . the second way i proposed to find out the sense of the commandment was from the reason of it ; which , i said , the scripture tells us was derived from gods infinite and incomprehensible nature which could not be represented to men , but in a way that must be an infinite disparagement to it . for which i produced isaiah . , , , . to whom will ye liken god ? or what likeness will ye compare to him ? the workman melteth a graven image , and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold , &c. have ye not known , have ye not heard ? hath it not been told you from the beginning ? have ye not understood from the foundation of the earth ? it is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth , &c. whence i desired to know , whether this reason be given against heathen idols , or those images which were worshipped for gods or no ? or whether by this reason , god doth not declare , that all worship given to him by any visible representation of him is extremely dishonourable to him ? and to this purpose when this precept is enforced on the people of israel by a very particular caution , take ye therefore good heed to your selves , lest ye corrupt your selves , and make you a graven image , the similitude of any figure , &c. the ground of that caution is expressed in these words , for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the lord spake unto you . if the whole intention of the law had been only to keep them from worshipping the heathen idols , or images for gods , to what purpose is it here mentioned that they saw no similitude of god , when he spake to them ? for although god appeared with a similitude then , yet there might have been great reason against worshipping the heathen idols , or fixing the intention of their worship on the bare image . but this was a very great reason why they ought not to think of honouring god by an image ; for if he had judged that a suitable way of worship to his nature and excellency , he would not have left the choice of the similitude to themselves , but would have appeared himself in such a similitude as had best pleased him . this discourse t.g. saith , is apt enough to delude a vulgar auditory out of the pulpit ( i with their pulpits had never any worse before not vulgar auditories ) but altogether empty and insignificant when brought to the test of reason . that is to be tried , whether my reason or his answer will be found so : however , he saith , this doth not prove it idolatry . no! that is very strange , for if the image of god , when worshipped , be an idol and forbidden as such in the commandment , then i suppose the worship of it is idolatry . but none so blind as they that will not see . now for the terrible test of reason . he saith . that all representations of god , are not dishonourable to him ; and for that , he produces a hieroglyphical picture of a three corner'd light within a cloud , and the name iehovah in the midst of it in the frontispiece of a book of common prayer , by rob. barker , . from whence he inferrs , that the church of england doth not look on all visible representations as an infinite disparagement to god. as though the church of england were concerned in all the fancies of engravers in the frontispieces of books publickly allowed : he might better have proved that we worship iupiter ammon in our churches , because in some he may see moses painted with horns on his forehead ; i do not think our church ever determined that moses should have horns , any more than it appointed such an hieroglyphical representation of god. is our church the only place in the world , where the painters have lost their old priviledge , quidlibet audendi ? there needs no great atonement to be made between the church of england and me in this matter : for the church of england declares in the book of homilies , that the images of god the father , son and holy ghost are expresly forbidden and condemned by these very scriptures i mentioned . for how can god a most pure spirit , whom man never saw , be expressed by a gross body , or visible similitude ? or how can the infinite majesty and greatness of god incomprehensible to mans mind , much more not able to be compassed with the sense , be expressed in an image ? with more to the same purpose , by which our church declares , as plainly as possible , that all images of god are a disparagement to the divine nature ; therefore let t. g. make amends to our church of england for this and other affronts he hath put upon her . here is nothing of the test of reason , or honesty in all this ; let us see whether it lies in what follows . . he saith , that images of god may be considered two waies , either as made to represent the divinity it self , or analogically ; this distinction i have already fully examined , and shewed it to be neither fit for pulpit nor schools , and that all images of god are condemned by the nicene fathers themselves , as dishonourable to him. . he saith , that the reason of the law was to keep them in their duty of giving soveraign worship to god alone , by restraining them from idolatry . this is now the severe test , that my reason cannot stand before . and was it indeed only soveraign worship to god , that was required by the law to restrain them from idolatry ? doth this appear ( to return his own words ) in the law it self , or in the preface , or in the commination against the transgressors of it ? if in none of these places , nor any where else in scripture , methinks it is somewhat hard venturing upon this distinction of soveraign and inferiour worship , when the words are so general , thou shalt not bow down to them , nor worship them ? and if god be so jealous a god in this matter of worship , he will not be put off with idle distinctions of vain men , that have no colour or pretence from the law : for whether the worship be supreme or inferiour , it is worship ; and whether it be one or the other , do they not bow down to images ? and what can be forbidden in more express words than these are ? but t. g. proves his assertion , . from the preface of the law ; because the reason there assigned , is , i am the lord thy god ; therefore soveraign honour is only to be given to me , and to none besides me . or , as i think , it is better expressed in the following words , thou shalt have no other gods but me : and who denies , or doubts of this ? but what is this to the second commandment ? yes , saith t. g. the same reason is enforced from gods jealousie of his honor : very well , of his soveraign honour ? but provided , that supreme worship be reserved to him , he doth not regard an inferiour worship being given to images : might not t. g. as well have explained the first commandment after the same manner , thou shalt have no other soveraign gods besides me ; but inferiour and subordinate deities you may have , as many as you please , notwithstanding the reason of the law ; which t. g. thus paraphrases , i am the only supreme and super-excellent being , above all , and over all , to whom therefore soveraign honour is only to be given , and to none besides me . very true , say the heathen idolaters , we yield you every word of this , and why then do you charge us with idolatry ? thus by the admirable test of t. g's reason , the heathen idolaters are excused from the breach of the first commandment , as well as the papists from the breach of the second . . he proves it from the necessary connexion between the prohibition of the law on the one side , and the supreme excellency of the divine nature on the other ; for from the supreme excellency of god , it necessarily follows that soveraign worship is due only to it , and not to be given to any other image or thing : but if we consider him as invisible only and irrepresentable , it doth not follow on that account precisely , that soveraign worship or indeed any worship at all is due unto it . which is just like this manner of reasoning . the supreme authority of a husband , is the reason why the wife is to obey him ; but if she consider her husband , as his name is iohn or thomas , or as he hath such features in his face ; it doth not follow on that account precisely , that she is bound to obey him and none else for her husband . and what of all this , for the love of school divinity ? may not the reason of obedience be taken from one particular thing in a person ; and yet there be a general obligation of obedience to that person , and to none else besides him ? although the features of his countenance be no reason of obedience , yet they may serve to discriminate him from any other person , whom she is not to love and obey . and in case , he forbids her familiarity with one of his servants , because this would be a great disparagement to him ; doth it follow that because his superiority is the general reason of obedience , he may not give a particular reason for a special command ? this is the case here . gods supreme excellency is granted to be the general reason of obedience to all gods commands ; but in case he gives some particular precept , as not to worship any image , may not he assign a reason proper to it ? and what can be a more proper reason against making or worshipping any representation of god , than to say , he cannot be represented ? meer invisibility i grant is no general reason of obedience ; but invisibility may be a very proper reason for not painting what is invisible . there is no worship due to a sound , because it cannot be painted ; but it is the most proper reason why a sound cannot be painted , because it is not visible . and if god himself gives this reason , why they should make no graven image because they saw no similitude on that day , &c. is it not madness and folly in men to say , this is no reason ? but t. g. still takes it for granted , that all that is meant by this commandment , is that soveraign worship is not to be given to graven images or similitudes ; and of the soveraign worship , he saith , gods excellency precisely is the formal and immediate reason why it is to be given to none but him . but we are not such sots ( say the heathen idolaters again ) to give soveraign worship to our images of mercury , or apollo , &c. therefore the reason of your command doth not reach us ; but we may worship our images , as well as you do yours . . he proves it , ad hominem , thus , i grant that no perfect image of god can be made , and that god need not by a law forbid an impossible thing ; but from the divine natures being invisible it only follows that men ought not to presume to make any image , or likeness to represent it as it is , i. e. a perfect image ; and the law in vertue of it must be to forbid making any such image ; therefore according to my self , the irrepresentableness of the divine nature as precisely considered , cannot be assigned for the proper cause or reason of this law. very subtilly argued ! what i said , could not be the sense of the law , he takes to be the sense of it , and from thence argues against the reason i had given : which is as if i should say to him ; t. g. denies , that this commandment doth contain any prohibition of the worship of god by an image ; but the law must be understood to forbid worshipping god by an image ; therefore according to t. g. the law doth forbid worshipping god by an image . call you this arguing ad hominem ! one would think it were to a creature of a lower rank . he saith , i deny that the law forbids making an impossible thing , i.e. a perfect image of god ; he asserts , that the law must be understood to forbid the making of any such image ; and from hence he infers , that according to my self , that cannot be the reason of the law which i assigned ; because from that reason that only follows to be forbidden by the law , which i said could not be the thing forbidden by the law : and he saith , must be only forbidden by it . before t. g. had gone about to prove any thing from hence against my self , he ought to have shewed , . that gods irrepresentable nature doth only hold against making impossibilities , that is , perfect images of god. . that this must be the meaning of the second commandment , which he saith , i denied . . that when i denied , and he barely affirmed it , he can argue ad hominem from my denial and his affirmation of the same thing , against the reason alledged by me , viz. i assigned from scripture , that no image is to be made of god because he is infinite and invisible ; now saith t.g. i will prove from your own words , this cannot be the reason of this law. how so ? you say , that the law doth not forbid making a perfect image of god , for that is impossible . and what then ? doth it hence follow , that the law doth not forbid making a possible image of god ? hold , saith t. g. gods infinite nature doth only hold against a perfect image , and this must be the meaning of the commandment ; which i utterly denied . and so if t. g. will argue ex concessis , it must proceed thus , i deny that the law doth forbid an impossible image of god , or that gods infinite nature doth only hold against such images ; and therefore according to my self , this infinite nature of god cannot be the reason why images are forbidden in the second commandment . can any man in the earth discern the consequence of this ? when i say the law is made against possible images , and that the nature of god is represented so perfect to deter men from making the most imperfect images of god , because they are a disparagement to him ; doth it follow from my words that this reason cannot hold against the making of images ? t. g. having given us such a test of his reason ; i now follow him to the interpretation he gives of the places of scripture produced by me . to the first , isa. . . to whom will ye liken god ? or what likeness will ye compare unto him ? he answers , that there is a likeness of representation and a likeness of comparison ; if the words be understood of the former , then he saith , it only follows that such a likeness is not to be made . which is all that i desire . but again he is at it , that i deny the prohibition hereof to be any part of the law : is it possible for t. g. to say this , when my design is to prove the contrary ? but by likeness t. g. understands a perfect representation ; why doth he not say then , by likeness is understood sameness ? which is not representation , but the thing it self . all representation by the art of man must fall very much short of the perfection of the meanest animal ; and no image can represent a thing as it is , but as it appears ; not in regard of its invisible nature , but of its outward lineaments ; either therefore t. g. must deny any likeness of representation , or he must yield that to be a likeness of representation in an image of god which doth not perfectly represent him . for if it had the perfection of god , it would be god. if the words be understood of a likeness of comparison , then the meaning , he saith , is , that none of the idols of the heathens are to be compared to him in wisdom , greatness , or power . but me thinks if not the hebrew words , nor the chaldee paraphrast , nor the lxx , nor other versions , could prevail with t. g. yet the vulgar latine should have had authority enough to let him know , that these words are not spoken of heathen idols , but of an image of god , cui ergo similem fecistis deum ? aut quam imaginem ponetis ei ? which surely ought to signifie more with him , than meerly the contents of the chapters do with us . to deut. . . he answers , that de facto no manner of similitude was seen at the giving of the law , by the people ; that afterwards they might not take occasion to conceive it to have been a proper representation of the divinity , and so entertain an erroneous conceit of god. and doth t. g. think , there was not as much danger of dishonouring god by worshipping any such representation of god , as by entertaining an erroneous conceit of god in their minds ? but why must this be understood only of a proper representation , when the words are , no manner of similitude ; is there no manner of similitude , but a proper representation ? and yet after all this , the images of god allowed and worshipped in the roman church are as much in danger of making men entertain erroneous conceits of god , as any similitude of that time ; and therefore as much against the reason of this commandment . but t. g. very modestly denies , these words to contain a reason of this commandment ( although they be , for ye saw no manner of similitude , &c. therefore take heed lest ye corrupt your selves and make a graven image , &c. ) but the matter of fact was made use of by him as a motive to induce the people to the observance of the law in a sermon he makes , deut. . to press them to that duty . i see t. g. is resolved to make just such another test of scripture as he did of reason ; could it ever enter into a mans head waking , that these words are a general reason of the whole law , and not a particular reason of that command which immediately follows it , and by the very words relates to it ? ye saw no similitude , therefore make no similitude ; this is proper , and natural , and easie to all capacities : but ye saw no similitude ; therefore obey my law ; hold there , saith t. g. himself ( if he be not in a dream and hath forgotten himself ) to be supremely excellent is the proper reason of obedience , and not the seeing no similitude , therefore this is no proper motive to obedience , whatever the contents of chapters or tops of the pages of our bibles say , which are the pitiful refuges t. g. betakes himself to , to escape down-right sinking . but some men would rather give all for lost , than think to save themselves by such a mean defence . well ; but t. g. hath something yet to say ; which is , that supposing all this to be true which i have said , as to the reason of the law , yet this doth not reach home to them ; for it doth not follow from hence , that christ according to his humanity cannot be represented but with great disparagement to him : or that to put off our hats when we behold the figure of his sacred body with intent to worship him , must be extremely dishonourable to him . this argument therefore doth not concern catholicks in making the image of christ and his saints with respect to their honour . this is the last effort of t. g. on this argument , and as weak as any of the rest : for , . it is a false and most disingenuous representation of their practises , as may appear to any one that will but look back , on what i have said upon that subject . one would think , by t. g's words , they had never used or allowed , or worshipped any images of god or the trinity in the church of rome ; which he knows to be otherwise ; and i have abundantly proved it already . . the force of the second command , extending to christians , doth equally hold against the worship of christ by an image , as it did under the law against worshipping god by an image . for if the law be perpetual , as the christian church alwaies believed , and christ be only the object of worship as he is god , we are as much forbidden to worship christ by an image , as the iews were to worship god by one . i do not say , there is as great an incongruity in representing the humane nature of christ , as there was in representing the infinite nature of god ; but i say , there is as great an incongruity still in supposing an image , of whatsoever it be , can be the proper object of divine worship . for the humanity of christ is only capable of receiving adoration from us , as it is hypostatically united to the divine nature ; and s. austin saith , being considered as separated from it , is no more to be worshipped than the robe or diadem of a prince when it lies on the ground ; and if the humane nature of christ be not , what then is the image of it ? what union is there between the divine nature and a crucifix ? all that can be said is , that imagination supplies the union , and christ is supposed to be present by representation ; but this overthrows all measures and bounds of worship , and makes it lawful to worship any creature , with respect to god ; it contradicts the argument of s. paul , for then god may be worshipped with the work of mens hands ; it is contrary to the sense and practice of the primitive church which interpreted this commandment , to hold against all images set up for worship , as well those proper to christians , as others among iews or gentiles . . the last way i proposed to find out the sense of the law , was from the iudgement of the law-giver : which was fully manifested in the case of the golden calf , and the two calves of ieroboam . this he calls a solid principle indeed to work upon ; i am glad to see that we protestants can fall into the way of principles ; and more glad that gods judgement recorded in scripture is acknowledged for such a principle : but after all , he calls this meer imagination ; and it must undergo the test of his reason . the force of my argument , as he laies it down , is this , that the israelites were condemned by god of idolatry , for worshipping the golden calf , and yet they did not fall into the heathen idolatry by so doing , but only worshipped the true god under that symbol of his presence . to this t. g. opposes his opinion , that the israelites herein fell back to the egyptian idolatry . here then is the state of the question between us ; to resolve which , and to bring it home to our business , i shall propose these two things . . whether the israelites did in worshipping the golden calf , fall back to the egyptian idolatry ? . whether it be sufficient to t. g's purpose to prove that they did so ? for in case the egyptians themselves did worship the true god under symbols , t. g. falls short of his design , if he could prove that the israelites did relapse to the egyptian idolatry : for it would then appear however to be idolatry to worship the true god by an image . . i shall examine the evidence on both sides , whether the israelites did fall back to the egyptian idolatry ? i offered several reasons to prove that the israelites had no intention to quit the worship of that god , who had so lately given them the law on mount sinai . . from the occasion of this idolatry , which was not any pretence of infidelity as to the true god ; or that they had now better reasons given them for the worship of other gods besides him ; but all that they say is , that moses had been so long absent ; that they desired aaron to make them gods to go before them . to this t. g. answers , that the very text i mention shews their infidelity , viz. in their despair of moses returning . but if their infidelity had been with a respect to god , it had been far more pertinent to have said , up make us gods to go before us ; for as for this god who gave us the law , we know not what is become of him ; but they only speak of moses and not of god , and the reason was , because immediately before moses his going up into the mount , the last promise god made to the people was of an angel going before them ; and they understood that there was to be an extraordinary symbol of his presence among them ; but what it was they could not tell ; and moses being so long absent , as the text saith , they grew impatient of having this symbol , and so put aaron upon making the golden calf . t. g. saith , they had forgotten this promise , or thought that god was not able to perform it : for which he hath not the least colour from scripture or reason ; as will appear by the following particulars . . from the intolerable folly of desiring aaron to make that god , which before he was made delivered them out of the land of aegypt . for so the people say , this is thy god , or these are thy gods , which brought thee out of the land of aegypt . is it possible to suppose people so extreamly stupid to imagine a god just then made , should before it was made , deliver them out of aegypt ? but t. g. is a notable man , and hath made a rare discovery , viz. that calvin said some such thing before me ; i thank him for the discovery , for i do assure him it was more than i had ever read in calvin ; but t. g. hath a great mind to make calvin my master in every thing . i should not be ashamed to learn from a man of so great abilities ; but it falls out unhappily , that i do not find one thing he charges me with following calvin in , but it is from him that i learn what calvin said . and if he had pleased he might have quoted an author of their own for these words ; neque enim tam stupidi erant , saith ferus , quod crederent aaron posse facere deum ; they were not so stupid to believe that aaron could make a god ; and therefore he saith , very honestly , that the israelites worshipped the true god , by the calf . but suppose calvin did say this , is there ever the less reason in the saying ? but we can imagine as sottish things of them , viz. that they terminate their worship on the images , although they deny any divinity to be in them ? is it indeed so sottish a thing to terminate their worship on the images ? what becomes then of all their divines who plead for it , and say that by the decrees of their councils , worship ought to be terminated on the images themselves ? as t. g. may see in the precedent chapter . but the scripture , t. g. saith , represents the israelites as a people void of understanding ; and they were without learning , and oppressed for four hundred years together , by the most idolatrous nation in the world ; and served their gods , ezek. . . i grant the scripture gives that severe character of them , but it was because they did not consider the consequence of their disobedience ; as appears by the next verse deut. . . must we because of this imagine them to be such fools and sots , that no idolaters in the world can be parallel'd with them ; viz. to make a god which did mighty things for them , before it was made ? therefore the meaning of making a god can be nothing else , but making a symbol or representation of god ; and the question then is , whether it were the representation of an aegyptian idol , or the god of israel ? that it was not the former i proved — . from the way of worship used by the israelites , which was an abomination to the aegyptians , exod. . . to this t. g. returns not the least word of answer ; but he shall not escape so , for from hence i shall make it appear beyond contradiction , that it was not aegyptian idolatry , which the israelites fell into ; for which we must consider the sacrifices that were offered to the golden calf . and they rose up early on the morrow , and offer'd burnt-offerings , and brought peace-offerings , and the people sate down to eat and to drink , and rose up to play . s. stephen saith , and they made a calf in those dayes , and offered sacrifice unto the idol , and rejoyced in the works of their own hands . now the burnt-offerings and peace-offerings , are expressed , exod. . . to be their oxen and their sheep : and immediately before moses his going up into the mount it is said , that they offered burnt-offerings , and sacrificed peace-offerings of oxen unto the lord : where the very same words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are used , and the lxx . there render the word we translate oxen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the vulg. lat. vitulos , the same word which is used for the golden calf . now i shall shew that nothing could be more repugnant to the aegyptian idolatry , than such sacrifices as these . for which we have this considerable testimony of horus in macrobius , nunquam fas fuit aegyptiis pecudibus aut sanguine , sed precibus & ture solo placare deos. it was never lawful for the aegyptians to sacrifice with cattel and blood , but only with prayers and incense : and from thence he proves that the worship of saturn and serapis were but lately received among the egyptians , in the time of the ptolemies ; and after they were received , their temples were without the cities , that they might not be polluted with blood within the cities . and every one knows , that the feasts were upon their sacrifices ; but the satyrist says of the egyptians ; lanatis animalibus abstinet omnis mensa ; nefas illic foetum jugulare capellae . anaxandrides in athenaeus , saith , that a greek could have no conversation with an egyptian ; because the one worshipped an ox which the other sacrificed : and herodotus saith , that the egyptians would not touch so much as the knife , or spit , or pot which the greeks had used ; so great an aversion had they from those who either eat or sacrificed the creatures they worshipped . herodotus indeed saith , that the thebans abstained from sheep , and offered goats ; the mendesians on the contrary abstained from goats and offered sheep ; but this was on the account of the particular religion of those two provinces ; ( for they differed very much among themselves as to particular animals : ) but all the egyptians agreed , as herodotus there saith , in the worship of osiris and isis , now diodorus siculus affirms that apis and mneuis the bulls of heliopolis and memphis were sacred to osiris ; plutarch saith , that the ox was the image of osiris ; and strabo that apis was the same with osiris ; and mela , that apis was the deity of all the egyptians . strabo gives the most particular account of the egyptian worship , and what creatures were worshipped in the several provinces ; but , he saith , there were three universally worshipped , whereof the first is , the ox ; and it was an universal practice not to touch or hurt those creatures that were sacred among them ; as the oxen were quite through egypt ; from whence moses desired to go into the wilderness to sacrifice , for we shall sacrifice the abomination of the egyptians to the lord our god. lo , shall we sacrifice the abomination of the egyptians before their eyes , and will they not stone us ? i. e. saith the targum of onkelos , because the egyptians worship oxen. because lambs are the idols of the egyptians , saith ionathan . if we kill , saith s. hierome , the things which they worship . i leave it now to the consideration of any man , whether the israelites using their accustomed burnt-offerings and sacrifices , and feastings upon them , as they did in the worship of the golden calf , can be supposed to have returned to the egyptian idolatry . . i urged this , as an argument that the israelites intended to worship the true god , because aaron proclaimed a feast , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to iehovah . and however the people were void of understanding , i suppose aaron being high priest , and head of the church at that time , was not so berest of common sense , as to give the incommunicable name of iehovah to a calf of his own making . all that t. g. saith to this , is , that aaron perhaps and some of the wiser men among them might not be so sottish , as to suppose the calf he made to be the god that delivered them out of egypt , yet it is certain they were so weak , as to concurr with the people in the external practises of their idolatry . but this is not the force of my argument , which lies in this , that aaron said , it was a feast to iehovah , when they were to sacrifice to the golden calf ; either therefore he must suppose that worship was intended for the honour of the true god , or he must give the name of iehovah to the calf ; which would shew him to have been more sottish than the people , for they only called the calf by the name of elohim , but he gives the name of iehovah to it , which was that peculiar name god was known by to the people of israel upon the accomplishment of his promise in bringing them out of egypt . i appeared unto abraham , and to isaac , and to jacob by the name of god almighty , but by my name iehovah was i not known unto them : wherefore say unto the children of israel , i am iehovah , and i will bring you out from under the burdens of the egyptians , &c. therefore when the people say , this is the god that brought us out of the land of egypt , aaron presently proclaims a feast to iehovah , i. e. to the god that brought them out of the land of egypt . and when afterwards the ark ( which was the symbol god himself appointed of his presence among them ) was removed , upon their travelling from the mount of the lord , moses said , rise up iehovah ; and when it rested , return o iehovah unto the many thousands of israel . thus the name of iehovah was used by moses himself upon occasion of the appointed symbol of gods presence ; but when aaron proclaimed a feast to iehovah upon making the golden calf , moses calls it a golden god , because god saith , they had made a molten calf , and worshipped it , and sacrificed thereunto , and said , this is thy god which brought thee out of the land of egypt . which therefore by s. stephen is called an idol . . the expressing it to be the god that brought them out of the land of egypt , doth imply , that they did not intend one of the egyptian gods. for what reason could they have to think that one of the gods of egypt should deliver them out of the egyptian bondage ; and while their own worshippers were forsaken by them , to preserve those who were so great enemies to them ? and how could they think the gods of egypt had wrought all the miracles for them which were seen in that deliverance ? and how unlikely was it they should forsake the god of israel and return to the egyptian gods ; when they make use here of the very preface of the law , which god had so lately given them on mount sinai : viz. i am the god that brought thee out of the land of egypt . to this t. g. returns no manner of answer . . when the israelites revolted to the idolatry of their neighbours , the scripture punctually sets down the names of the idols they worshipped , as baal peor , moloch , remphan ; but here is nothing of that nature mentioned . to this t. g. answers , what then ? is it the idols having a name , that makes the worshippers heathen idolaters ? if they conceived or believed the calf to be a god , were they not as much heathen idolaters for worshipping it without a name , as the egyptians for worshipping it under the name of apis ? but t.g. cunningly dissembles the force of the argument , which was not from their worshipping it without a name , but from the scriptures not expressing it , which it doth upon other occasions : and bellarmin himself tells us , from abulensis , cajetan and others , that the israelites had two sorts of idols , one without a certain name , as the idol of micha , judges . and it may be , the golden calf which aaron made , and jeroboam renewed , for the scripture doth not call it moloch or baal , &c. the other had a certain name , as baal , moloch , ashtaroth , chamos . therefore say they not improbably ( mark that ) that it may be allowed of the first sort , that the iews did worship the true god in the idol . then an image of the true god may be an idol , and those idolaters , who worship such an image . but they erred most grievously , saith bellarmin , in three things : . that they sacrificed to the idol , i. e. gave divine worship to it . . that they believed the divinity to be in it : how doth that appear ? no more surely , than those who believe images to speak and to work miracles . . that they thought god to be corporeal and like the idol , i. e. the israelites thought the great iehovah to be just of the fashion of the calf . what prodigious fools must some men make the israelites , that they may not appear as great idolaters themselves ? . i argued from s. stephens words , and they made a calf in those dayes and offered sacrifice to the idol : then god turned and gave them up to worship the host of heaven ; whereby , i said it was observable , that the idolatry of the calf was distinct from the other heathen idolatry , this being a punishment of the other . to this t. g. saith nothing ; and yet it is a thing which deserves consideration , that that which the fathers accounted the most justifiable idolatry of the heathens , viz. the worshipping the host of heaven , is looked upon as the judgement following the worship of the golden calf . so clemens alexandrinus , and origen plead for this so much in comparison with other heathen idolatries , as hardly to think it a fault in them ; and it is farther observable that in no kind of idolatry , which the israelites ever fell into , save only that of ieroboam , which was of the same nature with this , that expression was ever used , these are thy gods which brought thee up out of the land of egypt ; which shews that this worship had a peculiar respect to that god who brought them in so remarkable a manner out of the bondage they were under there . these are the reasons which i have to prove , that the israelites did intend to worship the true god by the golden calf : and we have seen what weak answers t. g. gives to some of them , and none at all to others . i must now attend to the reasons he gives to the contrary , and those are either from scripture or fathers . . from scripture , where they are charged with forsaking god , deut. . , , , . as though the israelites committed no idolatry in the wilderness but that of the golden calf : whereas it is well known that they worshipped baal peor , moloch , and remphan ; of which a blacker character is given than of the other . but the psalmist saith , that in worshipping the calf , they did forget god , psal. . , , . and was not that forgetting the god that appeared with such a terrible majesty on mount sinai , to turn his glory into the similitude of an ox that eateth grass ? but in the expressions of scripture to forget god is to disobey him ; beware that thou forget not the lord thy god , in not keeping his commandments , and his iudgements , and his statutes which i command thee this day . and was not this forgetting god in this sense , so openly to break one of the laws he had so lately given them ? that which seems to come nearest the matter is , the expression of s. stephen , that our fathers would not obey , but thrust him from them ( that is , the true god , saith t. g. whereas the words are plainly meant of moses ) and in their hearts turned back again into egypt , saying , make us gods to go before us ; which relates not to the object but to the manner of worship by such a symbol of worship as was in greatest veneration among all the egyptians . this is the force of all that he brings out of the scripture . . from them he betakes himself to the fathers : and he quotes two passages of s. athanasius , and s. hierome ; and a doubtful place of s. chrysostom to his purpose . this is the first time i have found t. g. citing the fathers truly and pertinently ; and it were too hard dealing with him , not to allow him these testimonies ; especially about the exposition of a place of scripture ; wherein their best commentators take so much liberty of receding from them , when they apprehend the scope and circumstances of the place do enforce another sense ; as i have already shewed at large concerning this . and to these fathers , i shall oppose the testimony of others , who make the egyptian ox to be only a symbolical representation of the patriarch ioseph , and say that on this account the israelites made choice of the golden calf ; so the author of the book de mirabilibus s. script . in s. augustins works , ( as good an author as the homilist de poenit. whom he quotes under s. chrys. name ) saith , that the egyptians set up the image of an ox by the sepulchre of joseph ; and for this cause the israelites made choice of that similitude , when they made an idol in the wilderness . iulius firmicus maternus saith , that the neocori did preserve in egypt the image of joseph , by which he understands apis , or the sacred bulls ; the same is affirmed by rufinus and suidas . from whence it follows , that this being looked on as the symbol taken up in egypt in remembrance of the service of ioseph , it was very unlikely , that the israelites should look on the image it self as so powerful a thing , as the testimonies of athanasius and s. chrysostom imply ; to be able even before it was made , to deliver them out of egypt : which is such a horrible contradiction , that we had need to have better testimonies than those , to make us think the israelites such sots to believe it . but if it were only looked on as a symbol of gods presence , this gives a probable account why the israelites should make choice of this , before any other of the egyptians images , because by it , the kindness of ioseph ( who by moses is compared to a young ox ) was supposed to be remembred by them . but , . we are to enquire whether supposing that the israelites did revolt to the egyptian idolatry in the worship of the golden calf , that be sufficient to prove that they did not worship the true god under this symbol ? for if the egyptians themselves did worship the supreme god under symbolical representations of him , then although the israelites might return with their hearts into egypt , yet this doth not prove , that they did not worship the true god by the golden calf . plutarch , who discourseth largely concerning the egyptian worship , saith , that the golden bull was the image of osiris , which was shewed for four daies together , from the seventeenth of the month athir ; and it was a common practice in egypt to have golden images ( effigies sacri nitet aurea cercopitheci ) wherein lucian saith , the barbarous nations did exceed the greeks , who made their images of wood , or ivory , or stone . for there were two sorts of images of their gods among the egyptians . those images and representations which were in their temples , or places of worship , and those which they accounted the living images of their gods , viz. beasts ; such as the two famous bulls , apis and mneuis : the one at memphis , the other at heliopolis ; both in honour of osiris : which places were as the dan and bethel of egypt ; memphis being the metropolis of the upper , heliopolis of the lower egypt ; wherein the israelites lived , and saw the worship of the sacred bull of heliopolis . plutarch saith , the egyptians looked on apis as the image of the soul of osiris . diodorus saith , that they looked on the soul of osiris as passing by transmigration into apis ( from which doctrin the worship of beasts was not only entertained in egypt , but is so in the east indies to this day , in which case the beast is only the material object of worship , but the formal reason is the presence of some divine soul which they suppose to be there , which on their supposition ought to have divine worship given to it by the principles of the roman church , as the elements of bread and wine on a supposition more extravagant , viz. of transubstantiation . ) but whether the worship of animals came into egypt , from the doctrine of transmigration , or from their usefulness , or from some politick reasons , which are mentioned both by plutarch , and diodorus ; this is certain , that plutarch thinks , their wiser men did not worship the animals themselves , but looked on them only as representations of some divine perfection which they discerned in them , and on that account gave worship to them . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , those persons ought to be most esteemed , who did not worship the animals themselves , but through them did worship the deity ; and they ought to be looked on as clearer and more natural representations of god , than inanimate things ; and we ought to esteem them , as the workmanship and instrument , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the god that orders all things . and there is all the reason to imagine , that what hath a soul and sense , is better than that which hath none , viz. an image : and the divine nature is not seen in colours and figures , and smooth superficies ; which are worse than dead creatures , for these never had life in them : but that which hath life , and sense , and motion , hath a greater influence from that divine wisdom which governs all things ; therefore , saith he , these ought not to be looked on as inferiour representations of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the divine being , than those images which are made of brass or stone by the workmanship of men , and are subject to corruption , and destitute of all sense and understanding . whereby we see that plutarch did put a difference between the common practises of the people , and the intention of the wiser men in the egyptian idolatry . he before takes notice of the follies of the people , that worshipped the living creatures themselves as gods , and thereby not only exposed their religion to the scorn and contempt of others ; but led some men into horrible superstition , and tempted others to turn atheists ; and then he gives this , as the most reasonable account of the worship of these animals according to their wiser men , whose opinions ought most to be followed in religion . from whence it appears that the distinction of the practice of the people , and the doctrine of divines hath obtained among the grossest idolaters ; and if the peoples practice be excused because the divines teach otherwise , the most sottish egyptian idolaters are excusable , as well as those in the roman church . for what is there in this principle of worship laid down by plutarch , which may not be defended by the avowed doctrine of the roman church ? here is ( . ) a right ultimate object of worship , viz. the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the divine being , which orders and governs all things . ( . ) here is a representation of that object by the perfections derived from that being to a creature . ( . ) here is a right directing the intention through that representation to the ultimate object . and ( . ) the formal reason of worship is the derivation or participation of that perfection which represents god from the divine being : and therefore this is no soveraign worship which is given to it . the only difficulty here is to shew that the egyptians did intend to worship the supreme god by either sort of their images : which is not only affirmed by plutarch , who saith , they understood by osiris the wise providence of god , and by porphyrie , who saith , the egyptians , by the several animals they worshipped , did express their devotion towards the almighty power of god ; and by apuleius , who was initiated in the egyptian mysteries , and in the conclusion of his metamorphosis , osiris is called , deus deum magnorum potior , & majorum summus , & summorum maximus , & maximorum regnator osiris , which are descriptions of no less than the supremest god ; but max. tyrius yields at last that the egyptians did worship the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the deity by the worship of animals , as the greeks did by the statue of phidias . and there is a considerable testimony to this purpose in vopiscus , taken out of an epistle of the emperour adrian , which he wrote to servianus from egypt , giving an account of the manners of the egyptians ; wherein are these words , unus illis deus est , hunc christiani , hunc iudaei , hunc omnes vener antur & gentes . they had one god , whom christians and iews , and all nations worshipped . is. casaubon suspects this passage , but without any reason as salmasius proves , and is apparent because the same thing is said in the beginning of the same epistle : where he saith , that however they differed in other points , yet they all agreed in the worship of sarapis , by whom phylarchus in plutarch understands that god which governs the world : and seguinus shews from ancient coynes and authors , that sarapis , and iupiter ammon , and iupiter pharius , and iupiter rerum omnium potens were all one . thence the inscriptions , d.e.o. i.n.v.i.c.t.o. s.e.r.a.p.i. s.e.r.v.a.t.o.r.i. d.e.o. m.a.g.n.o. s.e.r.a.p.i. and that mentioned by tristan , i.o.m. s.a.r.a.p.i.d.i. p.r.o. s.a.l.v.t.e. i.m.p. from which it appears that supposing the israelites did relapse to the egyptian idolatry , it doth not from thence follow that they did not worship the true god by an image . i proceed now to the two calves of ieroboam at dan and bethel ; which being made in imitation of the golden calf must stand or fall by what hath been said already concerning that . but i shall here make good the peculiar arguments to ieroboam's case , which were brought to prove that he did intend to worship the god of israel by the calves of dan and bethel . . because ieroboam manifests no design of taking the people off from the worship of the true god , but only from the worshipping him at hierusalem . for all that he saith to the people is , it is too much for you to go up to ierusalem , behold thy gods , o israel , which brought thee up out of the land of egypt . if ieroboam's intention had been to have altered their religion , he would have spoken against that , and not only against the place of it ; and to shew to them that he had no such intention , he continued the same feasts and way of worship which were at ierusalem . to this t. g. answers , that jeroboam 's end was to secure the ten tribes to himself ; and the likeliest way to effect it , was the making them such idols as their fathers had worshipped in egypt and the wilderness : and yet soon after t. g. represents him as a great polititian , that would not make any sudden changes . but could there be any change greater or more sudden , than to change the true god for molten gods and devils ; as t. g. saith he did : which words ( if they be understood in t. g's sense for the egyptian idols and devils in them ) was as great a change as could be made in religion , and too sudden to be made by such a polititian . he should have begun the alteration in the smaller matters , if he intended no sudden change ; and first have gained some of the great men to him to be ready to joyn with him , when opportunity served , with hopes of preferment and places at court ; when these were secured , then put in some of the vilest of the people into the priesthood ( as he did ) to render that sacred office mean and contemptible , the better to prepare the people for a change ; then to send agents abroad to tamper with the most active among them , to allure some and to terrifie others according to their several dispositions ; then to give liberty to those tender consciences that longed for the onions and fleshpots and bulls of egypt ; and when he had by degrees prepared a considerable party , that would be sure to adhere to him , then by little and little to open the great design to them , which he aimed at all this while . but it was too great a change for such a polititian , to say at the very first to them ; come , renounce the god of israel without more ado ; i have set up other gods for you to worship , and i command you all immediately to obey me : methinks , this would seem too harsh and unpolitick , and too dangerous for so new a government as his was ; a little indulgence for tender consciences , for a time , with the sweetest words , had better become such an achitophel , as t. g. calls ieroboam . this , this had been the way to have wheadled and drawn in the silly and injudicious multitude , by telling them what an oppression it was for them to be under the jurisdiction of the high priest and his brethren at ierusalem ; and that there was no reason such a vast number of lazy priests and ignorant levites should be maintained out of their labours by tythes and offerings ; that all the pretence of the true worship of god being confined to the temple at ierusalem , was only out of a design to enrich the priests and the city ; that it was only zeal for their own interest and revenues , which made them so earnest for that particular way of worship which was so different from the rest of the world. what! could they imagine that god had no other people in the world , but such as went up to ierusalem to worship ? what would become of the catholick way of worship , which was in all the nations round about them ? was it credible , that god should suffer so great a part of mankind to run on in such idolatry , as a few iews accounted it ? if it were so displeasing to god , could it ever be thought that the wisest king they ever had , viz. salomon , should in the wisest time of his life , viz. in his old age , fall to the practice of it ? besides all this , they ought to consider , how much the honour and safety of the nation was concerned in embracing the same catholick way of worship which prevailed round about them . their pretending to greater purity of worship than their neighbours , made them hated and scorned , and reproached by their neighbours of all sides , viz. by moab and ammon , and amalek , the philistins , and those of tyre : but if they returned to the worship of the neighbour nations , they might be sure of the assistance of the king of egypt , with whom ieroboam had lived many years , who would be ready to help them on all occasions ; and their lesser enemies would then be afraid to disturb them . thus we see what plausible pretences there were to have drawn the people off from the law of moses , to the idolatries of egypt ; but we read not the least intimation of this nature in the whole history of this revolt : but ieroboam only saith , these are thy gods which brought thee out of the land of egypt , which was the most unpolitick way of perswading them to return to the gods of egypt . besides he not only appointed a feast like unto that in iudah , but it is said , that he offered upon the altar , and sacrificed unto the calves which he had made , i. e. according to the custom of the iewish sacrifices , than which nothing could be more repugnant to the egyptian idolatry , as i have already proved . but t. g. saith , the text speaks but of one feast ; it is very true , it mentions but one ; but it is said afterwards in several places , that they departed not from the way of ieroboam ; and that very feast being accompanied with so many sacrifices , was a plain evidence it was not the egyptian idolatry , which he then set up . and it is remarkable to this purpose , that every one who was to be consecrated a priest to the golden calves , was to be consecrated with a sacrifice of a young bullock , and of seven rams ; which according to the rites of the egyptian idolatry were enough to have profaned the most sacred person . and iosephus , ( who may be allowed to have understood the mind of ieroboam as well as t. g. ) saith expressly , that in the speech he made to the people , he only pleaded , that god being every where present , he might be worshipped at dan and bethel , as well as jerusalem : and that for their greater conveniency he had set up the calves at dan and bethel , that there they might worship god. thus we see that in this worship at dan and bethel , ieroboam intended no more than to worship the god of israel there . i will not deny , that ieroboam was for liberty of conscience , and allowed the practice of egyptian idolatry , and appointed priests to serve at the several altars , as the people had a mind ; but the established worship , at which himself was present , was at the calves of dan and bethel . for it is said , that he offered on the altar there . but we read that he appointed priests , not only for the calves , but . for the high places ; which were of two sorts , . some for the worship of false gods , as those which salomon allowed to be built for chemosh and moloch on the mount of olives . . others were for the worship of the true god in the ten tribes . for there being some dissenting brethren among the israelites , who would neither join with the house of iudah in the worship at hierusalem , nor with ieroboam in the worship of the calves at dan and bethel ; to keep these secure to his interest , he permits them to worship god on the high places , i. e. altars erected to that purpose upon an ascent of ground . and this i prove from that passage of elias , they have thrown down thy altars ; speaking of the children of israels demolishing them in the time of ahab , who was the eighth in succession from ieroboam . and in the reformation of iosiah , he puts a difference between the priests of the high places ; for some of them were permitted to eat unleavened bread among their brethren ; and others he slew upon the altars . which shews that both in iudah and israel there were some who did still worship the true god on the high places . . ieroboam appointed priests 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pilosis , to the hairy ones ; which i wonder , how it come to be translated devils both here , and levit. . since in above fifty places of scripture , it signifies goats ; and but in one , the lxx . render it by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and there aquila hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the vulgar latine pilosi , and our translation satyrs : and since the worship of goats , and other hairy animals was so frequent among the egyptians , as of dogs , wolves , cats , ichneumons , apes , &c. but especially the goats , as herodotus , strabo , diodorus , plutarch , and others relate ( and the pan , and faunus , and silenus , and silvanus , and satyri were but a sort of goats : for the arabick word satar is a goat , and the egyptian name for pan is mendes , which , saith bochartus , signifies a goat too . ) and since this worship was so common in egypt was there not reason to forbid it by a law , levit. . ? and is there not cause where we meet with this word relating to an object of worship , to understand it according to the common practice of idolaters , and the common sense of the word ? therefore i grant that ieroboam did permit the egyptian idolatry , but he established the golden calves as the religion of the state. . i shewed , that the true god was worshipped by the golden calves ; because the sin of ahab who worshipped baal is said to be so much greater than the sin of jeroboam . and it came to pass as if it had been a light thing for him to walk in the sins of ieroboam , that he took to wife iezabel , daughter of baal , king of the zidonians , and went and served baal , and worshipped him ; and he reared up an altar for baal , in the house of baal , which he had built in samaria . yes , saith t. g. ahabs sin was greater , because he added this idolatry to the other . who denies that his sin might have been greater in that respect ? but that it was not so to be understood , appears by the opposition between god and baal in the words of elijah ? how long halt ye , saith he to all the people , between two opinions ? if the lord be god , follow him : but if baal , then follow him . now there being three several waies of worship among the people , if two of the three had not agreed in the same object of worship , viz. the god of israel , elijah could not have said that they halted only between two opinions of god and baal ; if some were for the god of israel , others for the gods of the egyptians , and others for beel samen , or the god of the zidonians . but , saith t. g. elijah supposes a general apostasie of the ten tribes to baal in the next chapter . and what then ? it was but very lately so , and they were not yet so fixed but they might be put in mind that they were lately of another opinion : and some render it , how long will ye pass from one extreme to another ? how long will ye be so uncertain in religion , now for god , and then for baal ? so vatablus renders it , quousque tandem alternis , &c. now of one side , then of the other ? or as some imagine , they themselves worshipped the calves , and sometimes baal . so that notwithstanding what t. g , saith , the opposition is here plain between the god worshipped by the calves , which was the publick and established worship of the ten tribes , and the worship of baal , which was newly introduced : and so the true god is supposed to be worshipped by those who did not worship baal . to confirm this , i added , that iehu magnifies his zeal for iehovah against baal , when it is said of him but a little after , that he departed not from the calves of dan and bethel ; which evidently shews the opposition between the god of israel worshipped by the calves , and the worship of baal . no , saith t. g. iehu's zeal for the lord doth not acquit him from idolatry in following jeroboam , any more than the lawful act of matrimony acquits a husband from the crime of adultery , who defiles his neighbours bed. i perceive t. g. grew very sleepy when he wrote this , and forgot what we were about : for i never intended to clear iehu from idolatry by his zeal for iehovah , but from such an idolatry as excludes the worship of the true god. for that was my business to shew that he might be guilty of idolatry , and yet worship the true god , by the calves of ieroboam ; as he not only shews by that expression to ionaedab , but by distinguishing between the priests of the lord , and the priests of baal ; and yet soon after that character is twice given of iehu , that he departed not from that worship which ieroboam had established . to the last instance i brought of the samaritans , who sent to the king of assyria for an israelitish priest to teach them the accustomed worship of the god of the land , who accordingly came and dwelt in bethel , and taught it them , upon which it is said , they feared the lord ; t. g. returns a strange answer , viz. that there is no mention at all made of his teaching them to worship him in the calves as symbols of his presence ; here t. g. nodded again : for if he would but have held his eyes open so long as to have looked back on the , and verses of the same chapter , he would have found these words , for the children of israel walked in all the sins of ieroboam which he did , they departed not from them : until the lord removed israel out of his sight , as he had said by all his servants the prophets . so was israel carried away out of his own land to assyria ; and then immediately follows this story of the samaritans , desiring to know the worship of the god of the land ; what can this refer to , but to the worship established by ieroboam ? i leave this to be considered by t. g. when he is awake , for he seems to have written these things in a dream . as to what he saith , of his having confuted my conjectures , or rather monceius his ; ( when it is apparent i differ from monceius in his main ground , to any man that hath read him ) i leave it as a fresh token of his kindness , when he will not so much as suffer me to be the author of such weak conjectures , which he hath so easily , and so pleasantly confuted ; and for the phrase of my plowing with his heifer , i suppose it hath relation to the calves of dan and bethel ; which i take notice of , that he may not think his wit is lost upon me . to conclude this point of the meaning of the second commandment , i said , that since the law giver hath thus interpreted his own law , we need not be solicitous about the sense of any others , yet herein i say we have the concurrence of the iewish and christian church . the iews have thought the prohibition to extend to all kinds of images for worship , and almost all for ornament , and the image worship of the church of rome is one of the great scandals to this day , which hinder them from embracing christianity . all that t. g. answers to this is , that he would gladly know , whether we must stand or fall by the interpretation of the iews ? did i bring their testimony for that purpose ? or intimate the least thing that way ? did i not use so much caution on purpose to prevent such a cavil ? i declared that i did not need their testimony in so clear a case ; and yet it is no small advantage to our cause , that we have herein the concurrence of all that had any reverence to this law of god , whether iews or mahumetans ; and not barely of them , but of the whole christian church for so many ages , as i have fully proved in the precedent chapters . as to the prophetical confutation of my opinion about idolatry and the second commandment by mr. thorndike , i do assure him if i could have thought what that learned person had said in this matter , to have been agreeable either to scripture or reason , or the sense of the primitive , or our own church , it might have prevented my writing , by changing my opinion ; for i was no stranger to his writings , or his arguments . but he that can think the israelites believed the golden calf delivered their people out of egypt before it was made , may easily believe that mr. thorndikes book of . was a confutation of mine , long before it was written ; and upon equal reason at least , i may hope that this answer will be a prophetical confutation of all that t. g. will ever be able to say upon this subject . chap. iv. an answer to t. g's charge of contradictions , paradoxes , reproach of the second council of nice , school disputes ; and to his parallel instances . under these heads i shall comprehend all that remains scattered in the several parts of his book , which seem to require any farther answer . the first thing i begin with is , the head of contradictions , for he makes in another book the charge of idolatry to be inconsistent with my own assertion ; because i had said that church doth not look on our negative articles against the church of rome , as articles of faith , but as infriour truths ; from whence , he saith , it follows , that their church doth not err against any article of faith ; but idolatry is an errour against the most fundamental point of faith , and therefore for me to charge the church of rome with idolatry , must according to my own principles , be the most groundless , unreasonable , and contradictory proceeding in the world. upon my word , a very heavy charge ! and i must clear my self as i can from it . had not a man need to have a mighty care of dropping any kind words towards them , who will be sure to make all possible advantages from them to overthrow the force of whatever can be said afterwards against them ? thus have they dealt with me ; because i allowed the church of rome to be a true church , as holding all the essential points of christian faith ; therefore all the arguments i have used to prove them idolaters , are presently turned off with this , that herein i contradict my self . thus i was served by that feat man at controversie , i. w. who thought it worth his while to write two books ( such as they are ) chiefly upon this argument : and he makes me to pile contradictions on contradictions , as children do cards one upon another , and then he comes and cunningly steals away one of the supporters , and down all the rest fall in great disorder and confusion . and herein he is much applauded for an excellent artist , by that mighty man at ecclesiastical fencing , e. w. the renowned champion of our lady of loreto , and the miraculous translation of her chappel ; about which he hath published a defiance to the world , and offers to prove , it against all comers ( but especially my inconsiderable self ) to be an undeniable verity . i must have great leisure , and little care of my self , if i ever more come near the clutches of such a giant , who seems to write with a beetle instead of a pen ; and i desire him to set his heart at rest , and not to trouble himself about the waies of my attacking him ; for he may lie quietly in his shades , and snore on to dooms-day for me ; unless i see farther reason of disturbing his repose than at present i do . but this charge being resumed by so considerable an adversary , as t. g. is , in comparison with the rest , i shall , for his sake , endeavour more fully to clear this whole matter . when i. w. had objected the same thing in effect against me ; the substance of the answer i made him was this , . that it was a disingenuous way of proceeding , to oppose a judgement of charity concerning their church , to a judgement of reason concerning the nature of actions , without at all examining the force of those reasons which are produced for it . this was the case of i. w. but ingenuity is a thing my adversaries are very little acquainted with : and therefore i said . there was no contradiction in it : for the notion of idolatry as applied to the church of rome , is consistent with its owning the general principles of faith , as to the true god and iesus christ , and giving soveraign worship to them ; when therefore we say , that the church of rome doth not err in any fundamental point of the christian faith , i there at large shew , the meaning to have been only this , that in all those which are looked on by us as necessary articles of faith , we have the testimony and approbation of the whole christian world of all ages , and are acknowledged to be such by rome it self ; but the church of rome looks upon all her doctrines , which we reject , as necessary articles of faith : so that the force of the argument comes only to this , that no church which doth own the ancient creeds can be guilty of idolatry . and i farther add , that when we enquire into the essentials of a church , we think it not necessary to go any farther than the doctrinal points of faith ; because baptism admits men into the church upon the profession of the true faith in the father , son , and holy ghost : but if beyond the essentials we enquire into the moral integrity and soundness of a church , then we are bound to go farther than the bare profession of the essential points of faith ; and if it be found that the same church may debauch those very principles of faith by damnable errours , and corrupt the worship of god by vertue of them , then the same church which doth hold the fundamentals of faith , may notwithstanding lead men to idolatry without the shadow of a contradiction . but t. g. saith , that idolatry is an errour against the most fundamental point of faith. what doth t. g. mean by this ? i suppose it is , that idolatry doth imply polytheism , or the belief of more gods than one , to whom soveraign worship is due ; then i deny this to be the proper definition of idolatry , for although , where ever this is , it hath in it the nature of that we call idolatry ; yet himself confesses , the true notion of it to be , the giving the worship due to god , to a creature ; so that , if i have proved that the worship of images in the roman church , is the giving the worship due only to god to a creature ; then , although the church of rome may hold all the essentials of faith , and be a true church , it may be guilty of idolatry without contradiction . but it may be i. w. in his reply , saith something more to purpose ; ( at least it will be thought so , if i do not answer him : ) i must therefore consider what he saith , that is material , if any thing be found so . however , he saith , that if the roman church doth hold any kind of idolatry to be lawful , she must needs hold an errour destructive to a fundamental and essential point of faith , and by consequence a fundamental errour inconsistent with the essence of a true church . and since no kind of idolatry is lawful , if the roman church hold it to be so , she must needs hold an errour inconsistent with some truth . most profoundly argued ! he only ought to have subsumed , ( as i think such logicians as i. w. call it ) but all errour is fundamental and inconsistent with the essence of a true church ; or that infallibility is necessary to the being of a church , and when he proves that , i promise to renounce the charge of idolatry . now it is not possible , saith i. w. that the roman church should bold any idolatry lawful ( knowing it to be idolatry ) unless she holds that some honour , which is due only to god , may be given to a creature . i am afraid to be snapt by so cunning a sophister , and therefore i distinguish in time . the roman church doth not hold any idolatry lawful which it judges to be idolatry , or the honour due only to god ; but the roman church may give the real parts of worship due only to god to a meer creature , and yet at the same time , tell men it is not a part of the honour which is due to god. to make this plain even to the understanding of i. w. the church of rome may entertain a false notion of idolatry , or of that worship which is due only to god : which false notion being received , men may really give the worship that only belongs to god to his creatures ; and the utmost errour necessary in this case is no more than having a false notion of idolatry , as , that there can be no idolatry without giving soveraign worship to a creature , or that an idol is the representation only of an imaginary being , &c. now on these suppositions , no more is necessary to the practice of idolatry , than being deceived in the notion of it . if therefore t. g. or i.w. will prove that the church of rome can never be deceived in the notion of it , or that it is repugnant to the essence of a church to have a false notion of idolatry , they do something towards the proving me guilty of a contradiction in acknowledging the church of rome to be a true church , and yet charging it with idolatry . but i. w. saith , that 't is impossible the roman church should teach or hold any kind of idolatry , whatsoever it be , but she must hold expressly or implicitly , that some honour due only to god , may be given to a meer creature . such kind of stuff as this would make a man almost repent ever reading logick ( which this man pretends so much to ) for surely mother wit is much better than scholastick fooling . such a church which commits , or by her doctrines and practises leads to idolatry , needs not to hold , i. e. deliver as her judgment that some honour due only to god may be given to a creature ; it is sufficient if she commands or allows such things to be done , which in their own nature , or by the law of god is really giving the worship of god to a creature . yet upon this mistake , as gross as it is , the poor waspish creature runs on for many leaves , and thinks all that while he proves me guilty of a contradiction . but the man hath something in his head which he means , although he scarce knows how to express it , viz. that in good catholick dictionaries , a fundamental errour , and a damnable errour , and an error inconsistent with the essence of a true church , are terms synonymous . now i know what he would be at , viz. that infallibility is necessary to the being of a church : therefore to suppose a church to err , is to suppose it not to be a church : but will he prove me guilty of contradiction by catholick dictionaries ? i beg his pardon : for in them transubstantiation implies none ; but whosoever writes against them , must be guilty of many . if he would prove me guilty of contradiction , let him prove it from my own sense and not from theirs . yet he would seem at last to prove that the practice of any kind of idolatry , especially being approved by the church , is destructive to the being of a church . which is the only thing , he saith , that deserves to be farther considered , by enquiring into two things . . whether a church allowing and countenancing the practice of idolacry can be a true church ? . whether such a church can have any power or authority to consecrate bishops , or ordain priests ? for this is a thing which t. g. likewise objects , as consequent upon my assertion of their idolatry , that thereby i overthrow all authority , and iurisdiction in the church of england , as being derived from an idolatrous church . these are matters which deserve a farther handling , and therefore i shall speak to them . . whether a church may continue a true church , and yet allow , and practise any kind of idolatry ? and to resolve this , i resort again to the ten tribes ; supposing what hath been said sufficient to prove them guilty of idolatry , my business is to enquire , whether they were a true church in that time . this i. w. denies ; saying , i ought to have proved and not barely supposed that the idolatry introduced by ieroboam was not destructive to the being of a true church : and several protestants , he saith , produce the church of israel to shew that a true visible church may cease . alas poor man ! he had heard something of this nature , but he could not tell what ; they had produced this as an instance against the perpetual visibility of the church , and he brings it to prove that it ceased to be a true church ; and the time they fix upon by his own confession is , when elias complained that he was left alone in israel ; which was not when the idolatry of the calves , but when that of baal prevailed among the people of israel ; i. e. when they worshipped beel-samen or the sun instead of god. now that they were a true church while they worshipped ieroboams calves , i prove by these two things . . that there was no time from ieroboam to the captivity of israel , wherein the worship of the calves was not the established religion of the ten tribes ; this is evident from the expression before mentioned , that the children of israel departed not from the sins of jeroboam , till god removed israel out of his sight . and it is observable of almost every one of the kings of israel , that it is said particularly , that he departed not from the sins of jeroboam . . that during that time god did own them for his people , which is all one with making them a true church . thus iehu is said to be anointed king over the people of the lord. and there is a remarkable expression in the time of iehoahaz , that the lord was gracious unto them , and had respect unto them , because of his covenant with abraham , isaac and jacob , and would not destroy them , neither cast he them from his presence as yet . would god have such respect to those whom he utterly disowned ? nay the prophet hosea saith , that god was still the holy one in the midst of ephraim ; and how shall i give thee up ephraim ? how shall i deliver thee israel ? which shews god had not yet discarded them : and afterwards he saith to israel , return unto the lord thy god ; and amos saith , prepare to meet thy god o israel : and both he and micah , call them still gods people . from whence it is evident , that they were still a true church notwithstanding the idolatry of ieroboam . . supposing a church to continue a true church , what reason can there be to question the authority of that church as to the consecration of bishops , or the ordination of priests ? i have formerly shewed that no act of ordination is invalid in case of any heresie or crime of the giver ; and that the contrary doctrine is condemned for heresie by the church . i now shall particularly shew that the power of giving orders is not taken away by the guilt of idolatry ; which i prove from the case of the arian bishops . i have at large made it manifest , that the arians were condemned for idolatry by the consent of the fathers of greatest reputation , s. athanasius , s. basil , s. gregory nazianzen , nyssen , epiphanius , s. chrysostom , s. ambrose , s. augustin , &c. and the second nicene council saith , that the catholick church looked on them as idolaters . now , if i can make it appear , that the arian ordinations were allowed , i shall put this matter past dispute , that the charge of idolatry doth not null the ordinations of our church as being derived from those who were guilty of idolatry . for this purpose , the second nicene council affords us plentiful assistance in the first session ; wherein peter the popes vicar declares , that meletius was ordained by arian bishops , and yet his ordination was never questioned ; and this was received by the council as true . epiphanius , socrates and sozomon all agree , that meletius received his consecration from the arian faction ; and epiphanius saith , he had it from the hands of acacius bishop of caesarea ; the worst of all the arians , saith baronius . socrates and sozomen do seem to imply , that the followers of eustathius at antioch would not joyn with meletius and his party , though both consenting in the nicene creed , because of his ordination by the arian faction , and the peoples being baptized by arian priests ; but theodoret mentions no such thing , and saith the first breach began there , when meletius was banished by the arian party ; and euzoius the arian was made bishop of antioch : and baronius makes the schism to begin from the ordination of paulinus by lucifer caralitanus ; however this were , we never find the ordination of meletius disputed by the catholick bishops ; and when s. athanasius writes a synodical epistle to those of antioch , to compose the differences among them upon the ordination of paulinus , he gives this direction to the other catholick christians concerning meletius his party , who met 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( so the place of their meeting was called , being in the old city , which the interpreter of athanasius renders in veteris ecclesiae communione ) that they should receive those who came to them from the arians without requiring any more from them , than the renouncing arianism and subscribing or owning the nicene creed ; whereby , the arian baptism and orders were allowed . but we have a fuller testimony of the general sense of the church of that age as to this matter of the arian ordinations ; ruffinus saith , that when the catholick bishops were returned from banishment , several of them met together at alexandria to consult what was to be done with those who had received orders from the arian bishops ; and after consultation about it , it was decreed in council , that only the heads of the party should be rejected , but others received to the exercise of their priestly office : upon which asterius was dispatched into the eastern parts to settle the churches there , and eusebius into the western : but he returning to antioch , found that lucifer in the mean time had broken his promise in the consecration of paulinus , and eusebius therefore would not own him as bishop ; which so enraged lucifer , that he quarrelled with the decree of the alexandrian council about receiving the arian bishops and priests upon disowning their heresie . and so the luciferian schism began : for the followers of lucifer charged the catholick church with being the synagogue of antichrist for receiving the arian bishops , as appears by s. hierom ; for they yielded to the receiving the penitent laity but not the clergy ; allowing the arian baptism , but not their ordinations : upon which s. hierom triumphs over them . and he saith , that eight arian bishops were received in the council of nice , although their arianism were declared before : and that the decree of the alexandrian council was universally received by the church : which is as ample a testimony to our purpose as can be desired . next to contradictions , t. g. charges me with maintaining strange paradoxes , which he puts into the title of one of his chapters in these words , a strange paradox advanced by dr. st. what can an image do to the heightning of devotion or raising affections ? not finding my self to be any great lover of paradoxes , but of plain and useful truths , i was the more curious to find out what paradox it was i had broached . and searching for the place , i found these words , and can any one imagine , there should be greater irreverence of god shewn in calling him to witness upon every slight occasion , than there is in bowing down before a block or a hewen stone , representing god to my mind by it ? what can such an image do to the heightening of devotion , or raising affections ? this is the monstrous paradox advanced by me , viz. that such a gross representation of god by an image doth tend more to abate than raise our estimation of him : which is so far from being a paradox , that i have herein the consent , not only of the ancient fathers , but of the greatest patrons of images in the eastern and western churches , till the latter times , as i have shewed already . but t. g. sets himself very industriously to prove that pictures have an advantage in representation above living creatures ; which he doth with great force of wit and strength of reason ; because ladies sit , ( sometimes to make madonna 's by ) for their pictures , and authors pictures are set before their books ; ( it is pitty we want our authors on so just an occasion ) and men keep the pictures of their friends ( and sign-posts are very useful in london streets , and may suggest many good meditations to men , as the three nuns or the like ) but to hold the contrary opinion , is the way to undo the company of picture-drawers ( which would be a great unkindness to all ingenious artists , ) but the most dismal consequence of my doctrine is , that the ladies instead of the pictures of their friends should wear ants and flies in crystal cases ; and instead of their own pictures the apes and asses should be sent them ; which i brought in so lamely , and the tygers too if they can catch them , as greater resemblances of their perfections . these passages , i hope , were intended for sallies of wit ; which do become t. g. as well in this argument , as dancing upon the ropes would do a capucin frier in his habit . but whence comes all this rage of wit ? this arming all the pencils and brushes of the town against me ? this appeal to the ladies against the pernicious consequences of my opinion ? this hurrying of me from the playhouse and the scenes there to the bear-garden , to the apes , and asses , and tygers ? all this ariseth only from this innocent saying , that it seems more reasonable to me to worship god by prostrating my self to the sun , nay to an ant or a fly , than to a picture or an image ; for in the other i see great evidences of the power , and wisdom and goodness of god , which may suggest venerable apprehensions of god to my mind ; whereas these can have nothing worthy admiration , unless it be the skill of the painter or artificer . hinc illae lachrymae ! could i ever have imagined that these words being spoken meerly with a respect to the representation of god in order to worship , should have raised the arriereban of all the ladies and painters against me ? if nothing will satisfie t. g. but having it under my hand that i had no malicious intention against the ingenious art of painting , nor any design to ruine the company of picture-drawers , i do hereby give it him , and with this humble acknowledgement i hope the parties concerned will rest satisfied . it is not in the point of bare representation i compare pictures and gods creatures ; but it is in representing those perfections which are the ground and reason of worship ; and here i stand to it , that the least living creature is a far better image of god , than an old man in pontifical habits , or the best crucifix in the world can be : i.e. it represents more those perfections for the sake of which i give divine worship to god. but t. g. saith , that atheists will deny the perfections of the creatures to be any evidence at all of the being we call god ; but cannot deny a crucifix to represent to their own thoughts that person whom we believe to be god ? this is very ill put ; for he should have parallel'd blind men and atheists together ; and i dare say no blind man discerns more of the excellency or likeness of a picture , than atheists do of the perfections of god by his creatures . if men will shut their eyes , what can a crucifix do to raise affections ? and if their eyes be never so open , it can only represent that which falls infinitely short of being a reason for divine worship . for , as to the meer representation of christs humanity by an image , whoever disputed with t. g. about the lawfulness of it ? but if he goes no farther than representation , or a help to memory or apprehension , t. g. knows well enough , he falls short of what is required of him , by the decrees of their councils , and the constant practice of their church , about which our controversie with them is . to the former paradox i added these words , that i cannot for my heart understand why i may not as well , ( nay better ) burn incense and say my prayers to the sun , having an intention only to honour god by it , as to do both those to an image ? here t. g. gives me warning not to say my prayers to the sun no more than they do to images ; he needs not give me that warning , for i never intend to do it so much ; for although he would insinuate that i know they do not , i hope he will change his mind when he reads the account i have given of their practises in that particular ; but i only pretended to pray to the sun having an intention to honour god by it ; and in this sense i am sure t. g. cannot deny , that they pray to their images . but if i do not say my prayers to the sun , but only bow down to it , so it be not out of ignorance , or heathenism , or to give scandal to weak brethren , he gives as much liberty as i could wish , and he quotes s. leo for it too ; in that very place where he condemns it , as appears by the last words he cites out of him ; let the faithful therefore abstain from so perverse and worthy to be condemned a custome , nor let the honour due to god alone , be mixed with their rites who serve the creatures , for the holy scripture saith , thou shalt worship the lord thy god and him only shalt thou serve . where the reason he gives against it , is not as t. g. insinuates , because there were some reliques of paganism remaining , but because it was giving the creature part of that honour which is due to god alone . but t. g. offers to give me a clear solution to my scruple ; which he does in two particulars . . that although the creatures do represent god after their manner , yet it is so rudely , remotely , darkly , and imperfectly , that there is need of a great deal of discourse to discover the analogy or proportion to their creator ; and they are called the footsteps of god ; whereas an image ( for example ) of christ is so apparently representative of him , that upon sight thereof our thoughts fly presently unto him . by which argument s. paul was strangely mistaken when he talked of the eternal power of god being so known or manifest by the things that are seen , that even the heathens were left without excuse ; no such matter , saith t. g. the creatures represent god rudely , remotely , darkly and imperfectly ; which make an excellent paraphrase on the words of the psalmist , the heavens declare the glory of god , and the firmament shews his handy-work . mens handy-work by images will do it rarely , presently , effectually , inflamingly ; but gods work doth it dully , remotely , rudely , and imperfectly . o how much the skill of a painter exceeds the power of god! whereas in truth the least work of nature infinitely exceeds the greatest art of man in curiosity , beauty , strength , proportion , and every thing that can discover wisdom or power . but , saith t. g. they are called gods footsteps , and to gather the height and bigness of hercules from his footstep was not the work of every vulgar capacity , which is a very childish way of reasoning , and taken only from such a metaphorical expression that vasquez calls it a frivolous argument that is taken from it . i , but the pretty story of hercules and that put together make a pleasant jingling : and looks like reason to those that know not what it means . must men take the measure of god just by the same geometrical proportions that he did , that gathered the height and bigness of hercules by his foot ? this sort of wit is a delicate thing , and endures no rough handling . but still i say it is not in the meer quickness of representation , but in the perfections represented , that natural things do so far exceed the most artificial images ; and we are to consider that in all representations of objects of worship , those are the most excellent which best set forth the nature of that being as it deserves our worship . now in this respect , the works of creation manifest gods eternal power , and what is it the image of an old man represents ? so that comparing these two , the sun , moon and stars do in regard of real representation of the divine being , much more deserve to be worshipped than any image whatsoever . and vasquez doth well prove that upon the principles of worshipping images , one may lawfully worship god in any creature whatsoever . for if the presence of god in the image by a meer fiction of the mind , be a sufficient ground to worship that image ; is not gods real presence in every creature a far better ground and reason to worship it ? and all the distinctions and evasions which serve in one will equally serve in the other case . how earnestly did t. g. contend for the worship of gods footstool ? and why may not his footsteps be worshipped as well as his footstool ? i am sure t. g. himself could not have taken the height and bigness of hercules from his footstool , which he saith , was done from his footsteps ; and therefore one comes nearer to the thing worshipped than the other . cardinal lugo gives an excellent answer to this metaphor of the creatures being gods footsteps ; for , saith he , they may be worshipped for all that ; for do not we worship the footsteps of saints in many churches ? how much more ought we to adore the footsteps of god ? but t. g. gives another reason against worshipping the creatures , viz. that there is greater danger of terminating the worship upon them , than upon an image ; because they are creatures subsisting of themselves , and are the causes of real benefits to mankind . if there be more danger in the one , there is more folly in the other , in the judgement of the fathers , who looked on the worship of images as the most silly and childish thing in the world ; while they thought the worship of the heavens very excusable : upon this ground , i had said before , it follows , that what deserves most honour should have the least given it , and that which deserves least , should have most ; for the danger is still greater , where the excellency is greater ; and by this reason we ought rather to worship a beast than a saint , for there is less danger of terminating the worship on one than on the other , and so the egyptians were more excusable than the papists . these words he returns upon me , on a very slight occasion , viz. setting the sun before an ant or a fly ; as though they had been a reason of my giving , where as i only shew the ridiculousness of this which is the only pretence they have for not worshipping god by a living old man , as well as by the picture of one . and if this be all t. g. hath to say , i see still the distinctions of soveraign and inferiour , of absolute and relative worship will bear any man out in the worship of any creature with a respect to god , as well at least as it doth them in the worship of images . vasquez saith there are these several grounds for the worship of a creature among them . . representation , which belongs to an image . . contact , although long since past ; thence they worship the cross , nails , garments , and other things that had touched the bodies of christ or the saints . . union ; thence they worship all reliques which had been parts of the saints . . presence : thence god being more present in his works , than any saint can be in a garment he did once wear ; there is more reason to worship god in his works , than any saint in reliques . cardinal lugo assigns these several reasons for the worship of god in any creature . . because they worship the work of mens hands , as the hand-writing of any saint , much more ought we to worship gods works with a relative worship . . becaus they worship the very places where the saints have been ; as a stone on which they have sate , for the sake of contact and propinquity ; much more ought we to worship gods creatures , to whom he is far nearer than the body of a saint to a stone . . because they receive gifts from princes with great veneration , although mean in themselves ; therefore since all the creatures are gods gifts we may worship them for his sake . . because a man is the living image of god , therefore as a wooden image may be worshipped for the sake of the exemplar , much more , saith he , ought such a lively image as man is . thus we see how men of the greatest understanding among them , have discerned the necessary consequence of their own principles of worship , and find there is no defending them , without yielding the lawfulness of worshipping god through any of his creatures ; and living men rather than dead images , on the account of a fuller representation of god ; and saith lugo , with the worship of latria , in respect of god , and an inferiour worship on the account of his proper excellency . if men had set themselves to oppose the doctrine of the primitive church about divine worship , they could not have thought of a principle more directly opposite to the general sense of it than this is , of the lawfulness of the worship of creatures . but there are two cases wherein they will not allow it . . in the case of indecency , although there have been a real contact ; thus the lips of iudas are excepted , although they touched christ. and cardinal lugo with particular caution excepts the tail of the ass on which christ rode to jerusalem . but saith arriaga , there was indignitas moralis , that did hinder the worship of judas his lips ; however he doth not understand , how this can cut off the adorability of them on the principles of vasquez and lugo . as to the ass on which christ rode ; there are some , saith he , do yield that it might be worshipped ; and the mule , and the ass which stood by the maunger , as well as the maunger is self : but it may be , it were better denied , because there is , saith he , i know not what meanness in it which hinders adoration ; but he adds , that in all these moral things very much depends on the apprehension of the persons ; and in case the intention be rightly directed , he thinks it very hard ( upon their principles ) to prove that god cannot be worshipped in any creature . . in case of publick scandal they do not allow it . not from any real hurt in the thing , but because the people have been only hitherto accustomed to worship images , and reliques of saints . the danger , saith vasquez from cajetan , would be none to understanding men , but only to the rude and ignorant people , that cannot so easily apprehend god in his creatures , as in an image , and withall it would savour of heathen superstition . but it were well they would consider the answer they give us in this case , when we urge the same argument against the worship of images : hold , say they , a meer scandal is no reason to take away the use of a thing , if it be such as doth not arise from the nature of the thing ; but only by accident through the malice or ignorance of the persons . so that in this case nothing is wanting , but well instructing the people ; and upon their principles of worship they may revive the worship of the host of heaven , the fire and water , and trees , and the earth it self ; and it is but conquering a little squeamishness of stomach at first , the very tail of the ass on which our savio●r rode , will go down with them . and now i leave the reader to judge which of us two is guilty of the greater paradoxes . i now come to the great rock of offence , the second council of nice : which , he saith , i most irreverently call that wise synod ; upon which he falls into a very tragical exclamation ; that i should dare to reflect so much dishonour on a council , wherein there were . fathers , with the popes legats , and the vicars of the oriental patriarchal sees ; and yet himself calls the council of constantinople a conventicle , wherein there were . bishops ; ( and doth he think the number of twelve more in one than in the other , makes such a huge difference in point of wisdom ? ) but the author of the caroline book saith , that by their own confession they were but . and the council of francford ( which opposed this , and of which t. g. speaks not very honourably , as i shall make appear ) consisted of about ● . bishops , by the confessions of their own writers : so that if number carries it , i have above . bishops of my side ; and if they were wise , the nicene council was not so . it is therefore in t. g's choice to call . or . bishops , fools . but if he be guilty of the same fault , that doth not excuse me for speaking so ironically , of so lawful , so general , so judicious a council , as that at nice was : and therefore he adviseth me to recant , and to follow the example of gregory of neocaelarea : i hope he doth not mean in the way of s. german ; although one of that name was a great patron of images about that time . but if this council were neither so lawful , so general , nor so judicious as t. g. pretends , for all that i know , the rector of a parochial church never to be found in the list of any general council ( which is a shrewd aggravation of my fault ) may have leave to call the second council of nice , a wise synod . . i shall enquire whether this were a lawful general council , and so received by the church : there are three things t. g. insists on to make this out . . that it was called by the popes authority ; which he knows we deny to be sufficient to make a lawful general council ; for then every assembly of bishops at rome called by the pope would be a general council . . the consent and presence of the patriarchs . . that it hath been received as such by the church . but i shall make it appear , that it was just such another general council as that of trent was , and managed with as much fraud and collusion ; and that it was not received by the church as a general council . . as to the presence and consent of the patriarchs ; this council in their synodical epistle boast that they had the concurrence of east , west , north and south : which is such an extravagance , that no sober men would have been guilty of , that had any regard to truth or honesty ; or did in the least consider the state of the world at that time . the western bishops were never so much as summon'd , the patriarch , of ierusalem was dead , the eastern patriarch , and the patriarch of alexandria were neither in condition to appear themselves , nor to send legats thither ; which baronius ingenuously confesseth : because aaron who was then chaliph of the saracens , was a great enemy to the christians , under whose dominion at that time they were . although christianus lupus , a professor of divinity at lovain , makes him a great friend to the christians in egypt ; which is not only contrary to baronius , but to the synodical epistle , the two monks carried to the council , from the monks of palestine , and was read and approved by the council . theophanes saith , that the empress and patriarch , both sent to the patriarchs of alexandria and antioch , while the peace continued ; but soon after upon aaron 's being made chaliph , the peace was broke ; and there was no liberty for the patriarchs either to go or send . but do we not read in the acts of the council that john appeared and subscribed as vicar of the oriental patriarchs ; and thomas as vicar of the patriarch of alexandria ? very true : but baronius gives an excellent account of this notorious cheat . the legats that were sent to the patriarchs did never arrive at antioch or alexandria ; but coming into palestine , they there understood what a grievous persecution the christians suffered under the new chaliph , and that if it should be discovered what errand they went upon , it would not only hazzard their own lives , but of all the christians of those parts ; therefore they forbore going any farther , and acquainted the monks of palestine with their design ; who met together , and took upon them to send these two , john and thomas as the legats of the patriarchs of antioch and alexandria : for theodorus patriarch of ierusalem was lately dead . and these two were the goodly vicars of the patriarchal see 's which sate and subscribed in their names in this most oecumenical council ; and passed in all the acts of it for the legats of the oriental patriarchs . for they subscribe themselves legats of the three apostolical sees , alexandria , antioch , and jerusalem : and yet the summons never came to either of the patriarchs , but they were in truth only the plenipotentiary monks of the patriarchal monks of palestine : so both baronius and binius confess they were only the monks that sent them , and they call themselves eremites in the beginning of their epistle ; and yet in the acts of that council they pass for very great men of the east , and euthymius bishop of sardis calls them the patriarchs of the east ; and epiphanius takes it for granted that the letters were sent by the very same to whom tarasius directed his ; when the very letters themselves , which were read in the council , shew that the patriarchs of antioch and alexandria were never consulted with . and yet christianus lupus in his late notes on the canons of the general councils , very fairly tells a formal story of politian , patriarch of alexandria , and theodoret of antioch , and elias of ierusalem , sending these for their legats to this council ( i had thought it had been only the popes prerogative to make titular patriarchs ) and he gravely magnifies the zeal and courage both of the patriarchs and legats for venturing so much in such a time of persecution : and then falls into a mighty encomium of the two legats that tarasius sent , for venturing through a thousand deaths to get to the patriarchs , when god knows they never came near them . but which is far more to be wondred at , pope adrian in his answer to charles the great about the nicene synod had the face to say , that the synodical epistle of the three patriarchs , of cosmus of alexandria , and of theodore of antioch , ( it seems elias is turned to theodore again ) and theodore of ierusalem was read and approved in this council of nice ; than which ( with his holiness's leave ) there never was a more notorious falshood , unless it were that of tarasius ; who upon the approbation of these letters of the monks , cry'd out , that the east and the west , the north and the south were all agreed ; and the whole council followed this with an acclamation of glory be to god that hath united us ; when the eastern patriarchs knew nothing of the council , the western bishops opposed it as soon as ever they knew it . and was not this a very hopeful general council , having as t. g. saith , the popes legats for presidents , and the vicars of the oriental patriarchal sees assisting in it ? . that it was not received for a general council by the church . for even in the greek church it self , theophanes only saith , that the emperour called together all the bishops within his own dominions ; which is said likewise by landulphus sagax ; only theophanes would have it believed that the oriental patriarchs sent their legats , which was very false : as not only appears from the very acts of the council , wherein the monks letter is inserted , but because this council was not received many years after in those patriarchal sees ; which is evident from photius his encyclical epistle to the patriarch of alexandria and others , not long since published in greek from a ms. brought out of the east ; wherein photius expostulates the case , why the nicene council was not received among them , as the six general councils were . in that copy which is extant in baronius , translated by metius , and with great diligence compared with two mss. whereof one was a very ancient one , it is said expresly , that it was reported among them that none of the churches under the apostolical see of alexandria did own the nicene synod for a general council ; which in b. montagues copy is mitigated into some ; but by the tenour of his discourse it appears , it was not published in their churches , nor received among them as a general council : and he useth many arguments to perswade them to it ; among the rest he saith , that thomas was present in it from his see , and others with him ; but he doth not say , he came as legate . and he hath found out companions for him too ; which is more than the nicene council discovered : and yet he acknowledges that by reason of the persecution of the saracens , the acts of that council never came to them ; which would be very strange , if the patriarch of alexandria sent a legate thither . baronius ingenuously confesses that this nicene council was not received as an occumenical council in any of the eastern patriarchates , excepting only that of constantinople ; and he is very hard put to it to prove that it was owned as such even at rome it self ; because nicholaus . in a council at rome in the cause of photius reckons up but six general councils , which photius upbraids him with ; and it is but a pitiful pretence which baronius hath for it , viz. that they had only a bad translation of it ; such a one as it was , it was of hadrians procuring , as anastasius saith . if they had received it as a general council , where were the authentick acts of it ? or if they did not understand greek , could they not have procured a better latine translation before the time of anastasius ? but the plain truth was , although pope hadrian joined with it , and would not allow tarasius his being patriarch till he undertook to get the worship of images confirmed , yet the nicene council was so very ill received in the western church ; that the following popes were ashamed to call it an oecumenical council ; as binius confesses in the very words of baronius , according to his custom . and long after their times , it was so little known or esteemed in the western parts , that aquinas and the ancient schoolmen never mention it in the matter of images , but determine expresly against it . which either shews it was not known , or had not any value put upon it ; for if baronius his reason hold good , as soon as anastasius had finished his translation , this council would have been as much known here , as any other ; and so much the more , because so many schoolmen were concerned to justifie the worship of images , and they were so much to seek for arguments to defend it , that they would have leaped for joy to have had a decree of an allowed general council on their side ; or if they had found it against them , they would some way or other have answered it . but the greatest testimony against it is the council of francford , which expresly condemned it ; and as sirmondus confesses , did not look upon it as an oecumenial council , because none but greeks met in it , and other churches were not asked their opinion ; nay , he saith , that pope hadrian himself , did not give it the title of a general council . to this t. g. answers , that what weight soever that exception carried at that time , yet it is certain now it hath no force at all , since the council it self hath for many hundreds of years been accepted as a true and lawful general council , and its doctrine as catholick by all the provinces of christendom , and the contrary to it condemned for heresie . this latter is evidently false , as i have shewed before , and there is no reason for the other ; for by the confession of their own writers the copies of this nicene council lay buried in these western parts for many ages , which is the reason they give why the schoolmen take no notice of it ; and in the former century , the copies of it were first published from some mss. that were very little known . the account whereof was , that this council meeting with so brisk an opposition from the council of francford and afterwards from the gallican bishops , and being rejected here in england by the consent of our historians , the very name of it was almost quite forgotten ; thence it never was once cited either by ionas aurelianensis , or walafridus strabo , as spalatensis observes , when they had the greatest occasion to do it in the matter of images . but when the worship of images began to be opposed here in england by wickliffe , the defenders of it finding themselves concerned to find out every thing that made for their advantage , waldensis having heard of some such thing as a council against iconoclasts , by thomas and iohn , two dominicans of his time , from a certain book ; he adventures to set it down upon their report , but so faintly with ut fertur , as if he had been telling the story of pope ioan ; and he saith , it was called under the pious emperour constantius the second , and pascasius : by which we may see what an excellent account they had of this general council ; but in the last century , pet. crabb , a franciscan , with indefatigable diligence searching five hundred libraries for any thing pertaining to councils , lights upon the old latin edition of this council , and published it a. d. . from that time this was looked on and magnified as the seventh general council in these western parts , and its authority set up by the council of trent : and the generality of divines finding it in the volums of general councils and there joyned with them , search'd no farther , but imagined it was alwaies so esteemed . but it may be some will become confident of it , when they see so good an author as t. g. speaking with so much assurance , that it hath been received for many hundred years as a lawful general council ; if he speaks from the time of its being published , he might as well have said for many thousand years . for . in the age wherein it was first sent abroad , it was utterly rejected by the council of francford ; as not only appears by the canon it self , but by the confession of some of the most learned and judicious persons of the roman church : such as sirmondus and petrus de marcâ were : and petavius confesses , that the council meant by the council of francford was the nicene council , and not the former of constantinople ; as surius , cope , or harpsfield , sanders , suarez , and others were of opinion : nay labbé and cossart in their late edition of the councils , have most impudently set down this in the very title of the council of francford , that the acts of the nicene council in the matter of images were confirmed therein : whereas sirmondus adds this to the title of his admonition about the second canon of that council , quo rejecta est synodus nicaena : all which advertisement they have very honestly left out , although they pretend to give all sirmondus his notes . but the main pretence for this was , because the words of the canon do mention the council of constantinople ; which petavius thinks was called so , because constantinople was the head of the eastern empire ; but the plain reason is , because the nicene council was begun at constantinople upon the of august ; but the emperours guards would not endure their sitting there , as theophanes relates , upon which they were forced to rise ; and the empress found out a trick to disband the suspected officers and souldiers , and brought in new ones ; however it was thought convenient the council should sit no longer there , but remove unto nice . and what a mighty absurdity was this to call a council , which was begun at constantinople , the constantinopolitan council ? and it is observable , that gabriel biel , who lived in the latter end of the fifteenth century , quotes the decree of this council of nice , under the name of a decree of the council of constantinople . and the learned p. pithaeus speaking of anastasius his translation , calls it the council of constantinople . the new french annalist is satisfied with neither opinion , but he thinks , that another council of constantinople was called between the nicene council , and that of francford , which did in express words determine that the same worship was to be given to images , which is due to the b. trinity , and that this was the council condemned at francford : but this new council is a meer invention of his own , there being no colour for it either from the greek or latin historians ; and in truth he pretends only to these reasons , . because it was a council of constantinople which was condemned . . because it is not to be supposed that the council of francford should condemn the council of nice : for he saith , it is not to be believed that so many bishops , the popes legates being present , should misunderstand the doctrine of that council : yet this is all the refuge t. g. hath in this matter : and he offers from petr. de marca , to give a particular account of it . to which i answer , that the author of the caroline book ( as i have already observed ) takes notice of this passage of the bishop of constantia in cyprus ; and although there were a mistake in the translation of it , yet it ought to be observed that , he saith , the whole council meant the same which constantine spake out , although in words they denied it , and he there quotes the very words of their denying it , non adoramus imagines ut deum , nec illis divini servitii cultum impendimus , &c. from whence it is plain , that the western church understood well enough what they said , and what they denied ; but they judged , notwithstanding all their words to the contrary , that they did really give that worship to images which was due only to god ; and no man that reads the caroline book can be of another opinion . and t. g. is content to yield it of the author of that book , from the testimonies i brought out of him ; but he saith , that author was not contented with what the council of francford had condemned . which is a lamentable answer ; since hincmarus saith , that this very volume was it which was sent from the emperour to rome by some bishops against the greek synod ; and he quotes the very place out of it which is still extant in that book . and is it credible that the emperour should publish a book in his own name as a capitular , as pope hadrian calls it , that was different from the sense of the council of francford , which was called on purpose to resolve this question about images , as well as to condemn the heresie of felix and elipandus ? petavius indeed would have the main book to have been written some years before the council , as soon as the acts of the nicene synod were known in these parts ( and cassander probably supposes alcuinus to have been the author of it ) but when the council of francford had condemned the nicene synod , only some excerpta were taken out of it and sent to the pope . i am not satisfied with petavius his reason , because the pope doth not answer all of it , ( a better cause may be assigned for that ) but in the preface of the book the author declares that it was done with the advice of the council ( quod opus aggressi sumus cum conhibentiâ sacerdotum in regno à deo nobis concesso catholicis gregibus praelatorum ) and bellarmin and baronius both grant , that this book contains the acts of the council of francford ; however if the book were extant before under the name of charles , it is so much the more improbable that if the council differed in opinion from it , the excerpta out of this book should be sent as the reasons of rejecting the nicene synod . and that passage which hincmarus cites out of this book , is very considerable to our purpose ; for the design of it is to shew , that the greek synod could have no pretence to be esteemed a lawful general council , because the doctrine of it was not catholick , neither were the acts of it done by the universal church : and in another place , that synod is charged with folly and presumption , in that being but one part of the church , it should dare to impose its decrees upon the church without advising and consulting with the other parts of it , ( debuerat enim ad circumjacentium provinciarum ecclesias legationem sciscitativam facere , utrum imagines adorari aut non adorari deberent . ) for what rage and madness is this , for the church of one part to go about to determine that which was never determined by the apostles or their successors , and to endeavour to anathematize the churches of the whole world ? but this is cursing without reason , anger without power , damning without authority : and therefore they are charged with no less than luciferian pride for taking upon them to pronounce anathema's against those who dissented from them . petavius saith , that when pope hadrian sent the acts of the council to charles the great , and would have a council called to advise about it ; the pope had not yet declared it for an oecumenical council ! but if it were not then declared to be a general council , it is very unlikely he should do it afterwards when he found that three hundred bishops of germany , france , and italy , saith surius , did so stiffly and resolutely oppose the definition of it in spight of the popes legats , who were present there . which contradiction of theirs shews , how very far this council was from being received by the church as a lawful general council ; and from the answer of hadrian it appears that it was not then solemnly confirmed by the pope , nor ever after , that we can find , till the council of trent . . we have the testimony of the best historians of that and several ages after , that the nicene synod was not received as a lawful general council . in the annals of eginhardus , who was secretary to charles the great , we have this account , that not many years before the council of francford , there was a synod at constantinople , which was called by themselves , not only the seventh , but a general council ; but charles having summoned together a council of bishops out of all parts of his dominions , it was there utterly rejected , so as not to be called or thought to be either the seventh , or a general council . the annales tiliani , loiseliani , bertiniani , fuldenses , metenses , laurishamenses , massianenses , egraismenses being the best records of that age , all agree with eginhardus in the rejecting of the greek synod ; and most of them call it the false synod , others say , that which would be called the seventh and a general council ; and with these agree ado viennensis , rhegino , hermannus contratus and urspergensis in their several chronicles , wherein we have a plainer testimony that this council was rejected , than we have that any general council was ever received . . that this was not barely the sense of that age , but continued to be so of succeeding ages , appears from the testimony i gave of the gallican church in the time of ludovicus pius , and the synod of paris , a. d. . wherein they persisted in condemning the nicene synod , and the doctrine therein asserted : which shews evidently that it was no mistake of the words of the council which caused the council of francford to condemn the nicene : for pope hadrian had now written in vindication of it , and endeavoured to clear the sense of the council ; and yet after all this the gallican bishops adhered to the sentence of the council of francford . to this t. g. returns only this answer , that although they were of this opinion at that time , yet afterwards the doctrine of the nicene council was received in the gallican church . i proceed therefore to shew , that in the time of the controversie between ionas aurelianensis and claudius taurinensis the gallican church had not changed its opinion : ( ionas lived , saith labbé , to a. d. . ) for bellarmin yields that jonas denied that any worship was to be given to images , although he disputed against claudius taurinensis who followed the opinion of serenus and would have them all destroyed . marg. de la bigne saith , that jonas was one of the heads of those who opposed the pope and the orientals , i. e. the nicene synod in this point of the worship of images , and he calls it a superstitious and pernicious practice , from which the gallican church was free ; and a detestable and most wicked errour ; notwithstanding the orientals pretended that they did not worship the images , but the exemplars by them ; and he prays god they may be at last delivered out of that superstition : with so much more to that purpose , that it were endless to repeat it . walafridus strabo who lived some years after ionas , and mentions the death of ludovicus pius , is yielded by baronius to have been of the same opinion with jonas in this matter : and he saith , all the honour due to images is barely negative , not to misuse or destroy them . in the same time with ionas lived agobardus archbishop of lions , and is at this day reckoned among the saints and confessours of that city ; of whose doctrine i had given before an account from the abstract of papirius massonus , and from thence i shewed how zealous he was against all worship of images : and i produced the testimony of baluzius to shew that he said no more than the whole gallican church in that age believed . t. g. gives up agobardus ; but he will not yield that baluzius saith any such thing , for the french bishops allowed images to be kept saith baluzius , that the faithful seeing them might be excited to the imitation of those holy persons whom they represented : whereas agobardus went so far as to affirm that they were kept for ornaments to delight the eyes , but not for the instruction of the people ; nay that they were not to be painted upon church walls . the words of baluzius are , ego crediderim agobardum scripsisse quod omnes tum in galliâ sentiebant ; and what sense can any man make of these words , if he did not believe , that what agobardus wrote was the sense of the gallican church ? i cannot but pity t. g. in these straights he runs himself into ; he can creep in at a mouse-hole , but he soon grows too big ever to get out again . for baluzius saith what i affirmed , and agobardus saith no such thing , as he affirms of him : and in that very synopsis of his doctrine by massonus , to which he referrs , we have just the contrary ; picturae aspectandae causâ historiae & memoriae , non religionis ; images are to be looked on for history and memory sake , but not for religion ; and what is this but for instruction of the people ? whosoever it was , that helped t. g. to this citation , i desire him as a friend that he will never trust him more ; for i would think better of t. g. himself , than that he would wilfully prevaricare . but if this were agobardus his opinion , why have we it not in his own words ? rather than those of pap. massonus , who talks so ignorantly and inconsistently in that very place where those words are , but are not set down by him as the judgement of agobardus . if t. g. would have taken , no great pains , to have read over agobardus his discourse of images , he would have saved me the labour of confuting him about his opinion ; for he delivers it plainly enough against all worship of images , though for the sake of the exemplar ; but he expresly allows them for instruction . i am sorry t. g. makes it so necessary for me to give him such home-thrusts ; for he lays himself so open , and uses so little art to avoid them , that i must either do nothing , or expose his weakness , and want of skill . but all this while we are got no farther than towards the middle of the ninth century , the church of france might change its opinion after this time , and assert the council of nice to have been a general council , and submit to the decrees of it . i grant all this to be possible , but we are looking for certainties , and not bare possibilities . hincmarus of rhemes , a stout and understanding bishop of the gallican church , died saith bellarmin , a. d. . and he not only calls the nicene synod a false general council , but he makes that at francford to be truly so : ( and these latter words of his are cited with approbation by card. cusanus ) and he condemns both factions among the greeks , of the iconoclasts , and of the nicene fathers . in the same age lived anastasius bibliothecarius , who made it his business to recommend all the greek canons and councils to the latin church ; ( he was alive saith baronius , a. d. . ) he first translated the eighth general council , at which himself was present ; and when this was abroad , he tells the pope what a soloecism it would be , to have the eighth , without a seventh , ( ubi septima non habetur , are his very words ) from whence it appears in how very little regard that council was in the western church . it is true , he saith , it was translated before ; but it was , almost by all so much contemned , that it was so far from being transcribed , that it was not thought worth reading . this he would have to be laid upon the badness of the translation , ( he hath mended the matter much ) when in his lives of the popes , he saith , it was done by the particular command of pope hadrian , and laid up in his sacred library . but when he hath said his utmost for the catholick doctrine of image-worship , ( as he would have it believed ) he cannot deny that the admirable usefulness of this doctrine was not yet revealed to some of the gallican church ; because they said it was not lawful to worship the work of mens hands . after this time , came on the midnight of the church ; wherein the very names of councils were forgotten , and men did only dream of what had past ; but all things were judged good , that were got into any vogue in the practice of the church ; yet even in that time we meet with some glitterings of light , enough to let us see the council of nice had not prevailed over the western church . leo tuscus who was a secretary to the greek emperour , and lived saith gesner , a. d. . giving an account of the schism between the greek and latin churches , hath these words , ( saith cassander ) that among the causes of the breach , that synod was to be assigned which was called by constantine and irene , and which they would have called the seventh , and a general council ; and he adds moreover , that it was not received even by the church of rome . about the year . was the expedition into palestine by fredericus aenobarbus , and nicetas acominatus , who was a great officer under the greek emperour , isacius angelus , ( and present in the army saith baronius ) gives this account of the germans opinion in those times about the worship of images . when , saith he , all the greeks had deserted philippopolis , the armenians staid behind , for they looked on the germans as their friends , and agreeing with them in religion , for the worship of images is forbidden among both of them . which being a testimony of so considerable a person , and not barely concerning the opinion of some divines , but the general practice of the people , doth shew that in the twelfth century , the necene council had not prevailed all over the western church , when t. g. affirms it did for many hundreds of years before the reformation . especially , if we consider what the judgement and practice of the armenians was , as it is delivered by nicon , ( who is supposed to have been a saint and martyr in armenia , ) who saith , that they do not worship images , and their catholick bishop or patriarch excommunicates those that do . which is confirmed by what is said to the same purpose by isaac an armenian bishop , who lived in the same century , viz. that they do not worship the images either of christ , the b. virgin , or the saints . and pet. pithaeus a learned and ingenuous papist , confesses , that it was but very lately that those of the gallican church began to be fond of images : and he writ that epistle wherein those words are extant , a. d. . surely he did not think the doctrine of the nicene council had been received in the gallican church for many hundred years . but suppose the nicene synod were not owned for a general council , yet it might be very wise and judicious assembly ; to say that , is to reflect on the emperour charles the great and all the western bishops in his dominions . and i am sure their expressions would justifie me , if i had spoken sharper without an irony : for in the caroline book we frequently meet with such expressions as these , concerning those grave fathers ; ut illi stultissimè & irrationabilitèr putant ; indoctè & inordinatè dicunt ; quam absurdè agant ; quod magnae sit temeritatis dicere ; quod non minus omnibus sed pene plus cunctis tharasius delirasse dignoscitur ; deliramento plena dictio leonis . ut illi delirant : ut illi garriunt : ridiculosè & pueriliter dictum ; infaustè , praecipitantèr , sive insipienter : dementia prolatum & risu dignum . inutile & mendacio plenum . dementissimum & ratione carens deliramentum , errore plenum . falsissimum & risu dignum . ridiculosissimum dictum . superciliosè & indoctè dixerunt . when t. g. hath considered these expressions , and the force and pungency of them , being all applyed to the fathers of that nicene synod , by the western bishops under the name of charles the great , he may possibly cool and abate his rage towards me for using only that ironical expression of that wise synod . and there is nothing considerable said by the nicene fathers which is not answered in that book , to whom i may therefore better referr him , than he doth me to the answers of epiphanius in the nicene council for satisfaction of no less than eight arguments ( as himself numbers them ) of the constantinopolitan fathers against the worship of images . but that he may not think the greatest weight lies in any thing that is passed by , i shall briefly consider the defence he makes for the nicene synod in the particulars mentioned by him . . he saith , that the nicene fathers did justly plead the continuance of christ kingdom against the idolatry of christians , because god hath promised that he will take away idols from the earth , not for four or five hundred years , but to the end of the world . i desire t. g. to consider , whether this argument would not have held as well against the catholick bishops who charged the arrians with idolatry : and what answer he gives himself about that , will shew the feebleness of his answer in this case . and the prophecies of the old testament relating to events under the new ( supposing that doth so , which is far from being clear ) do certainly shew what the design and tendency of the christian doctrine is , and what would be if men did observe it . as it is in all the prophecies of the peace and tranquillity of the world , notwithstanding which , we find the world at the old rate of quarrelling and fighting under new pretences : just so it is with idolatry , no doctrine in the world would preserve men more effectually from it , if they would observe it ; but if under the colour of christianity they bring in only a new scheme of it ; it is still the same kind of thing , although it appears in a fresher dress . but then , saith t. g. the gates of hell would prevail against the church . against what church ? the whole christian church ? whoever said they could , or how doth that follow ? the church of constantinople , or the church of ierusalem ? have not the gates of the turk been too strong for them ? the church of rome ? the gates of hell do certainly prevail against that , if it doth unchurch all other christians that are not of its communion ? and why may not idolatry prevail , where luciferian pride , and hellish cruelty and desperate wickedness have long since prevailed ? hath christ made promises to secure that church from errour , which hath been over-run with all sorts of wickedness by the confession of her own members and friends ? these are gobbets , fit only to be cramm'd down the throats of very implicite believers . . he undertakes to shew , that the saying of the fathers against the arrians cannot reach to those that worship images , because epiphanius saith , the arrians trusted in christ , and gave properly divine honour to christ , which they do not to the images of christ. to answer this , i shewed that aquinas and his followers did declare that latria was to be given to the images of christ , therefore this could not , at least , excuse them from being parallel to the arrians , and if their arguments hold good , then all that worship images fall under the like condemnation . this he bestows the name of many fallacies upon ; and runs on so briskly with shewing the inconsequence of it , as though he did in earnest believe it were an impertinent answer ; by which he would insinuate , that i had made use of aquinas his opinion to prove those guilty of idolatry which were of another opinion . no such matter ; for the question was , whether the saying of the fathers concerning the arrian idolatry can be justly applyed to those that worship images ? yes , say i , upon epiphanius his own ground they may , if they who worship images give divine honour to them ; but aquinas and his followers contend that divine honour is to be given to them ; and therefore they fall under the like censure . and by their argument , all that worship images must come under it ; for either they worship images for themselves , and then they all acknowledge it is idolatry ; or for the sake of the exemplar : which if it be the reason and object of worship as represented by the image , it must have the same worship which the thing considered in its own being deserves ; which being divine honour , that must be given to the image . but t. g. supposes the force of all this to depend upon their being of this opinion , and because the nicene fathers are not mentioned by me as agreeing with aquinas , therefore he represents this arguing as ridiculous . whereas my design was to shew ( that since divine honour being given to images , was confessed to make the case alike ) that it was confessed by the most prevalent party in the church of rome , that such honour was to be given to them , and that others did it , although they would not own the doing it . and whether men acknowledge it or no ; if they give that which is really divine worship , they become guilty of idolatry as well as the arrians ; and let men call it by what names they will , of relative or absolute , soveraign or inferiour worship , if it be that which god hath forbidden to be given to any creature , it becomes idolatry . . t. g. saith , that the argument doth not hold , that if the union of the divine and humane nature be the reason of the worship given to the person of christ , then there must be an equal presence or union between christ and the image to make that an object of worship ; for , saith he , not only union , but representation may occasion worship . who doubts of that ? but may it not as well occasion people to commit idolatry ? but the question is not , whether representation may occasion the worship of god or no ; for so an ant or a fly , or any creature may occasion it . but this is notorious shuffling to talk of images being only an occasion of worship , whereas i have at large shewed that the doctrine and practice of their church makes them objects of worship . and since the christian church acknowledged the humanity of christ to be capable of worship only on the account of an hypostatical union with the divine nature ; i desired to know how a meer image of that humane nature can be an object of lawful worship ? if t. g. saith , that the image is a fit object of worship , and representation the reason of it ; let him shew how representation comes to be an equal reason with personal union ; and at last , this representation is nothing but an act of imagination , which doth not make the object any more really present there than any where else : against which imagination we set the positive law of god forbidding any such kind of worship , as i have already proved . . he saith in defence of his nicene fathers , that although the image of christ can only represent the humane nature as separate from the divine , yet the charge of nestorianism doth not follow ; because the object of their worship , is that which is conceived in their minds ; and worship being an act of the will , it is carried to the prototype , as it is conceived in the understanding ; but their understandings being free from nestorianism , their wills must be so too : which is all the sense i can make of t. g's answer . who doth not seem at all to consider there are two things blamed by the church in nestorianism . . the heretical opinion . . the idolatrous practice consequent upon that opinion , of the separation of the two natures in christ. now the argument of the constantinopolitan fathers proceeds not upon their opinion , as though they really believed the principles of nestorianism who worshipped images ; but they were guilty of the same kind of worship ; for since an image can only represent the humane nature of christ ; if it were lawful to worship that image on the account of christ , then upon the nestorian principles it would be as lawful to worship the humane nature of christ , although it had no hypostatical union with the divine . for could not the nestorians say that when they considered christ as a humane person , yet that humane person did represent to them the divine person , who was the proper object of worship ; and although they were not really and hypostatically united , yet by representation , and an act of the mind , they directed their worship towards the divine person . for if a bare image of the humane nature be a sufficient object of worship , much more is the humane nature it self ; and if on the account of such representation the worship of christ may be directed to his image , with much greater reason it might be towards christ , as homo deiferus , in regard of that humane nature , which had the divine nature present , although not united . and upon this ground the constantinopolitan fathers did justly charge the worshippers of images with nestorianism as to their worship ; and that they could not defend themselves , but they must absolve the nestorians , whom the christian church and this nicene synod it self would seem to condemn . for there is a greater separation between the image of christ and christ , than the nestorians did suppose between the divine and humane nature ; for they did still suppose a real presence , although not a real union ; but in the case of images there is not so much as a real presence , but only by representation ; therefore if the nestorians were to blame in their worship , much more are those that worship images . as to the last answer , being only a desire that i would bear in mind against a fit season , that the eucharist is called by the constantinopolitan fathers an honourable image of christ , i shall do what he desires ; and i promise him farther to shew the nicene fathers ignorance and confidence , when they said , it was contrary to the scriptures and fathers to call the eucharist an image of christ. all the other arguments of the constantinopolitan fathers , to the number of eight , t. g. passes over , and so must i. from hence i proceed to the next charge , which is , that i mix school disputes with matters of faith ; for i desired seriously to know , whether any worship doth belong to images or no ? if there be any due , whether is it the same that is given to the prototype , or distinct from it ? if it be the same , then proper divine worship is given to the image ; if distinct , then the image is worshipped with divine worship for it self , and not relatively and subordinately as he speaks : and which side soever is taken , some or other of their divines charge the worship with idolatry ; so that it is in mens choice which sort of idolatry they will commit when they worship images , but in neither way they can avoid it . to this t. g. answers several waies . . that this is a point belonging to the schools , and not at all to faith : which i said , was their common answer when any thing pincheth them ; but to shew the unreasonableness of that way of answering , i added that both sides charge the other with idolatry , and that is a matter of conscience , and not a scholastick nicety . for if the worship of images be so asserted in the church of rome , that in what way soever it is practised , there is by their own confession such danger of idolatry ; the general terms of councils serve only to draw men into the snare , and not to help them out of it . . he answers this , by a drolling comparison , about the worship due to the chair of state , whether it be the same which is due to the king or no ; if the same , then proper regal worship would be given to something besides the king , which were treason : if distinct , then the chair would be worshipped with regal honour for it self , and not relatively , which were for a man to submit himself to a piece of wood. this he represents pleasantly , and with advantage enough : and supposing the yeomen of the guard to have done laughing , i desire to have a difference put between the customes of princes courts , and the worship of god : and it is strange to me t. g. should not see the difference . but whatever t. g. thinks , we say , that god by his law having made some acts of worship peculiar to himself by way of acknowledgement of his soveraignty and dominion over us , we must not use those acts to any creature ; and therefore here the most material question can be asked , is , whether the acts of worship be the same which we are to use to god or no , i. e. whether they are acts forbidden or lawful ? for if they are the same , they are forbidden ; if not , they may be lawful . but in a princes court , where all expressions of respect depend on custom , and the princes pleasure , or rules of the court , the only question a man is to ask , is , whether it be the custom of the court , or the will of the prince to have men uncovered in some rooms and not in others ; no man in his wits would ask , whether that be the same honour that is due to the king himself ? or who but t. g's clown could suspect it to be treason to put off his hat in the presence chamber , or to the chair of state , let it be done with what intention he pleases ? if the yeomen of the guard should see an old courtier approach with many bowings to the chair of state , and there fall down upon his knees , and kiss the arms of the chair , and deliver his petition to it for a good office at court , and observe that he doth this frequently , and with great gravity , i am afraid they would hardly hold their countenances long to see such a solemn fop ; and yet this pleasant courtier might pretend , that he did all this as imagining the king to be there present by representation , and that he did not give this honour to the chair of state absolutely , considered as a piece of wood ; but only relatively , and for the sake of his master ▪ that he knew better what belonged to the honour due to soveraign worship than such rude fellows as they ; that his intention was to shew what esteem he had for his prince by all this ; and though as to the substance of the act this was the same that was done to the person of the king , yet it fell upon the chair of state after an inferiour manner , as a thing relating to the king , and purely for his sake . i leave the substantial yeomen of the guard ( t. g's iudges in this controversie ) to determine in a general council among them , whether t. g's quaker , or this old courtier were the more ridiculous by which instance we see that even in princes courts men may over-act their reverence , and make themselves laughed at for their foolish and extravagant relative worship ; for in all such cases the rules of the court are to be observed , where there is no intrenchment upon divine laws ; and every man that comes to court enquires after the orders of the court , and he that keeps within them doth his duty , and never fears the yeomen of the guard. if the orders of the court were for men to pass through the presence , or other chambers without any ceremony , would not the yeomen of the guard be as ready to observe those who used it ? their business is to observe orders themselves , and to see that others do it . and this is the only way how this parallel can reach to our case ; all that we plead for , is , that the rules and orders be observed which god hath given us for his worship ; since he hath given laws we ought to obey them ; and since he hath appointed what he will have done , and what he will not , we must follow his rule , and not our own extravagant fancies , pretending that we have pretty devices to honour him with , which he hath expresly forbidden . in such a case , we have reason to enquire , whether the acts of worship be the same that he hath forbidden or no : but not where the whole matter depends on custom , and general rules , which every man may easily know ; and no one hath any reason to be scrupulous as long as he keeps within the measures of decency . but withal , the force of my question lay in the confession of our adversaries , who acknowledge on one side , that if the act of worship be the same that is given to the prototype , it is idolatry ; on the other side , if it be distinct it is idolatry ; and then i had all the reason in the world to put this question , because either way they are entangled by the confession of their own party . but as if yeomen of the guard should be so senseless , as some of them to tell a poor countryman , when he is going through the presence chamber , that if he gives the chair of state the same honour he gives the king , he commits treason ; and others say , if he does not , he worships the chair for it self , and so commits treason ; would not any man say , the countryman had reason to stand , and scratch his head , and consider what he does , for he doth not care to commit treason , and if he must do it one way or other , for his part he would go some other way , or be better resolved what he is to do . thus in our case bellarmin saith , it is idolatry to give the same worship to an image which is due to god : vasquez saith , it is idolatry to give distinct worship ; therefore if a man would avoid idolatry , he must give none at all : especially when there is no necessity at all of doing it ; and therefore it is in no case parallel with the difficulties about sight and motion , which t. g. makes use of , to shew that such subtilties ought not to hinder men from doing things . not when they are in themselves necessary to be done ; but when it is a doubtful case , and so doubtful that their most learned men say there is danger of idolatry either way , i do not know a more prudent consideration to keep a man from the practice of it . therefore t. g. after all his complaint of mixing these school disputes , and letting me know what edge-tools these school distinctions are ( as any one might guess by his manner of handling them ) yet at last he resolves to venture upon clearing the point . . he saith , the councils declare in this matter that we are not to give latria to images , or the worship due only to god ; and this without any distinction of absolute or relative latria . . he confesses , that s. thomas , and those of his way , do hold that the same worship is to be given to christ , and to his image . can any two things appear with a face of greater opposition than these two ? but , saith t. g. latria is twofold , one absolute , and that is due to god himself ; and the other relative , that may be given to the image : or rather , in the same act of worship is a double notion , the one as it tends to god himself , which is absolute latria , the other as it reflects on the image for his sake , which is relative latria . which distinction i have already examined , and shewed the vanity of in several places ; and that there are many in the church of rome who hold absolute latria to be given to images , and that upon the grounds of a relative latria any creature may be worshipped ; therefore i shall keep to what is proper to this place . . i said this distinction is just as if an unchaste wife should plead to her husband , that the person she was so kind with , was extremely like him , and a near friend of his , that it was out of respect to him , that she gave him the honour of his bed ; can any one think that such an excuse as this would be taken by a jealous husband ? how much less will such pretences avail with that god who hath declared himself particularly jealous of his honour in this command above others , and that he will not give his glory to another , but hath reserved all divine worship as peculiar to himself , and no such fond excuses of relative , inferiour , and improper worship will serve , when they encroach upon his prerogative . to this t. g. answers , that the object of iealousie is a rival , or what hath relation to or union with him , not what may serve to express affection and respect to the person who ought to be loved . but i have already shewed , from the confession of their own writers , and the sense of the christian church , that even an image of christ becomes a rival when it hath divine honour given to it : and t. g. himself will not allow sacrifice to be offered to an image ; and he denies from the catholick catechism ( although contrary to the catholick practice ) that they do pray to images : let us then suppose that men do pray and sacrifice to the image of christ. is all this only like the wifes kissing the picture for the husbands sake ? if it be no more , it is lawful and commendable to do them according to t. g's principles ; if it be more , then an image of christ may have such honour done to it as makes it an idol , and consequently a rival with god for his honour . and so the dispute comes to this , whether the practices of the roman church in the worship of images do not imply giving divine honours to them : of which i have treated at large already . . by this distinction men might say the lords prayer to saints , or offer up the host to an image , so they were done absolutely to god , and only relatively to the saints or images . t. g. being nettled with this , tells me in some passion ; that i can no where contain my self within bounds of mediocrity ; he shall see i can by not following his extravagancy : but he lets me know that the church of god hath no such custom ; i do not ask whether the church of rome have any such custom ( the church of god i know hath not ) but whether it may not have that as well as some others , and upon the same grounds of relative worship ? but if i must not understand this till i become a proselyte , i hope i shall be alwaies cntented with my ignorance ; if i can be no otherwise informed , i am not sorry to see such evidence of their inability to answer who make such put-offs . having thus passed through the several charges drawn up against me , i come in the last place to consider his parallel instances , by which he hopes to clear and vindicate their worship of images . to his first about the chair of state , and the third about the iews worshipping towards the ark and cherubims , i have answered already , ( the fifth belongs to the adoration of the host. ) there remain only three to be examined , . the reverence shewed to the ground by moses and ioshua . . the bowing at the name of iesus . . the bowing towards the altar ; if i can clear these from being of the same nature with the worship of images as allowed and practised in the roman church , i know no shadow of difficulty which remains throughout his book . . to the reverence shewed to the holy ground where god himself appeared by moses and joshua , being commanded to pull off their shoos . i answered , that , ( whatever t. g. thinks of it ) there is some difference to be made between what god hath commanded , and what he hath forbidden ; for in the case of moses and ioshua , there was an express command , but in the case of image-worship there is as plain a prohibition : the former part he calls a short descant on the former erroneous ground , and the latter , a note above ela. i am glad to see the second commandment set to musical notes among them , for i was afraid it had been quite cast out of their churches . . that the special presence and appearance of god doth sanctifie a place to so high a degree , that we may lawfully testifie our reverence towards it , but this will not hold for images , unless god be proved present in them , in the same manner as he appeared to moses and ioshua , and yet even then , the reverence he required was not kissing it , or bowing to it , much less praying to it , but only putting off their shooes . upon this t. g. being in a musical vein , sings his io paean ; and cryes out of the wonderful force of truth , that after long standing out makes all her adversaries submit to her power . i wish we could see such effects of the power of truth ; for it would soon rid us of many fears and iealousies . but what is it i have said so much amiss , to gain t. g's good word ? enough as he thinks to ruin our own cause and establish theirs . that were indeed confuting him with a vengeance . but what 's the matter ? wherein have i given up the cause ? i yield , that the special presence and appearance of god doth sanctifie a place to so high a degree , that we may lawfully testifie our reverence towards it . and what then ? why then saith t. g. all my darts which i have so spitefully thrown in the face of the images of christ ( or the holy trinity and the saints ) recoil with double force on my own head. how with double force ? nay how doth it appear that they recoil at all ? for to the best of my sight they stick fast where they did ; and i do not by my feeling perceive they recoil upon my head. well ; but a subtle logician would ask me , whether this reverence be absolute or relative : and he doth not question my answer would be , that it was not to the ground for it self , but meerly out of a respect to god. is this indeed the fatal blow i have given the cause of our church , when i expresly mention a command of god going before it ? and who doubts but we may give a reverence to places , with respect to god , especially when god requires it , as he did in this case ? and when t. g. hath made the most of this ceremony of pulling off the shooes , he will find , that it was of no other signification in the eastern parts , than having our heads uncovered is with us ; which is the lowest testimony of respect that may be . yet this was all which god himself required when he was present after a signal and extraordinary manner : and what is all this , to the consecrating , bowing , kneeling , praying to images , as they do in the roman church ? and this i say and have proved , against an express command of god ; and that not upon any real , but imaginary presence of the true object of worship . he that cannot see the difference of these things , hath some cataracts before his eyes , which need couching . but still t. g. demands , is this the same reverence that is due to god , or distinct from it ? i say , it is distinct from it ; then , saith he , vasquez comes upon you wish his artillery ; for then you express your submission to an inanimate thing , that hath no kind of excellency to deserve it from you . alas poor t. g ! how doth he argue like a man spent and quite gone ! that which vasquez saith is , that for a man to use all the acts of adoration to images which are performed in the roman church without respect to the exemplar , were to express our submission to an inanimate thing , which is idolatry . where it is to be observed , that he speaks of all the acts of worship which in the church of rome they give to images , and which being given to an image makes it idolatry , because those acts are such which do imply a submission to the thing , i. e. they are the highest expressions of adoration ; and those who assert that inferiour worship , do hold it to be internal as well as external , and to be terminated on the images themselves ; which is the reason why vasquez saith it were idolatry ; but vasquez was not a man of so shallow an understanding to charge this upon those who declare they put off their shooes or hats , out of no intention or design to worship the ground or place , but meerly to express some outward reverence to a place on the account of its being sacred to god. those who contended for that worship which vasquez charges with idolatry , did agree with him in all external acts of adoration to images ; and went farther than vasquez thought fit as to the internal ; for they said , both ought to concurr in the worship of images , and that this inferiour worship was terminated on the images themselves ( as i have shewed at large in the stare of the controversie . ) now saith vasquez , to assert and practise worship of images after this manner is idolatry , for it is expressing our submission to a meer inanimate thing . but do we say , that all acts of worship are to be performed to the ground that is holy ; or that any one act of worship is to be terminated upon it ; or that any submission of our minds is to be used towards it ? all these we utterly disavow as to the reverence of sacred places , and these things being declared , we yet say there is a reverence left to be shewed them on the account of their discrimination from other places and separation for sacred uses ; which reverence is best expressed in the way most common for men to shew respect by , which was putting off shooes in the eastern parts , and of hats here ; ( of the difference of reverence and worship , i have spoken before . ) i hope by this time , t. g. sees a little better the force of the argument of vasquez , and how very far it is from recoiling on my head , because i assert a reverence to sacred places to have been shewed by moses and ioshua on the account of gods special presence : and so all that insipid discourse of idolatry which follows , sneaks away as being ashamed to be brought in to so little purpose here ; but hath been fully handled in the first part . . to his instance of bowing at the name of iesus , i answered , that he might as well have instanced in our going to church at the tolling of a bell , for as the one only tells us the time when we ought to go to worship god , so the mentioning the name of iesus doth only put us in mind of him to whom we owe all manner of reverence , without dishonouring him as the object of our worship by any image of him , which can only represent that which is neither the object nor reason of our worship . at this answer t. g. is inflamed , and when he hath nothing else to say , he endeavours to set me at variance with the church of england . this runs quite through his book , and he takes all occasions to set me forth as a close and secret enemy to it , although i appear never so much in its vindication . if my adversaries were to be believed ( as i see no great reason they should be ) i must be a very prodigious author in one respect ; for they represent me as a friend to that which i write against , viz. socinianism ; and an enemy to that which i have defended , viz. the church of england . but wherein is it , that t. g. thinks me such a back-friend to our church ? in disavowing all reverence to the sacred name of iesus , which he saith , our church hath enjoyned , and hath been defended by fulk , whitgift , and b. andrews . i am glad i know my charge , and i do not doubt to clear my self to hold nothing in this or any other matter , but what the church of england hath declared to be her sense . witness , as to this point , the declaration of the archbishops and bishops in convocation : when in time of divine service , the lord jesus shall be mentioned , due and lowly reverence shall be done by all persons present as hath been accustomed ; testifying by these outward ceremonies and gestures , their inward humility , christian resolution , and due acknowledgement that the lord iesus christ , the true and eternal son of god is the only saviour of the world. is this bowing to the very name of iesus , and worshipping that as they do images , when the convocation declares that only a significant ceremony is intended by it . arch-b . whitgift , in the very place cited by him saith , that the christians used it to signifie their faith in iesus ; and therefore they used bodily reverence at all times when they heard the name of iesus , but especially when the gospel was read . dr. fulk , another of his authors saith , that the place alledged by t. g. to prove it , pertains to the subjection of all creatures to the iudgement of christ ; however , he saith , the ceremony of bowing may be used out of reverence to his majesty ; not to the bare name ; and that their idolatrous worship is unfitly compared with the bowing at the name of iesus . bishop andrews saith , we do not bow to the name , but to the sense ; which answers and clears all the long allegation out of him . archbishop laud calls it , the honour due to the son of god at the mentioning of his name , which are almost the very words i used . and whittington and meg of westminster will altogether serve as well for his expression as that used by me . but t. g. need not be so angry at my mentioning the tolling of a bell , when he remembers the christening of bells among them , and what mighty power they have after that , and what reverend god-fathers they have , and what saints names are given to them ; so that i should rather have thought he would have drawn an argument from the bells , than have been so disturbed at the naming of them . for all this t. g. fancies a strange analogy between words and pictures , a picture being a word to the eye , and a word being a picture to the ear : which sounds just like whittington to my ears : and i desire him to consider , that suarez tells us , that some of their own divines say , no worship is due to any name , because they signifie only by imposition , and do not supply the place of the thing represented as images do : of which opinion , he saith , soto and corduba are : and suarez himself grants , that a name being a transient sound can hardly be apprehended as conjoyned with the person , or the person in it , so as to be worshipped together with it ; and one of their latest ritualists saith , that when the name of iesus is mentioned they bow to the crucifix ; which shews that even among them , they do not think the name of iesus equal to an image of christ. i am now come to his last instance , viz. bowing towards the altar ; he would insinuate , as though the church of england were for giving some kind of worship to the altar , although under the degree of divine worship due to god alone ; and saith , that as the allowing this would render me a true son of the church of england , so the allowing the like to the sacred images of christ would make me in this point , a perfect proselyte of the church of rome . which is in effect to say , that the church of england , in allowing bowing to the altar , doth give the very same worship to it , which their church requires to be given to images ; and that they who do one and not the other , do not attend to the consequence of their own actions . i shall therefore shew , . that the church of england doth not allow any worship to be given to the altar . . that the adoration allowed and practised in the church of england is of a very different nature from the worship of images . . that the church of england doth not allow any worship to be given to the altar . for this i appeal to that canon wherein is contained the explication of the sense of our church in this particular . whereas the church is the house of god , dedicated to his holy worship , and therefore ought to mind us , both of the greatness and goodness of his divine majesty , certain it is that the acknowledgement thereof , not only inwardly in our hearts , but also outwardly with our bodies , must needs be pious in it self , profitable unto us , and edifying unto others . we therefore think it very meet and behooveful , and heartily commend it to all good and well affected people , members of this church , that they be ready to tender unto the lord the said acknowledgement , by doing reverence and obeysance both at their coming in and going out of the said churches , chancels , or chappels , according to the most ancient custome of the primitive church in the purest times , and of this church also for many years of the reign of q. elizabeth . the reviving therefore of this ancient and laudable custome , we heartily commend to the serious consideration of all good people , not with any intention to exhibite any religious worship to the communion table , the east or the church , or any thing therein contained in so doing , or to perform the said gesture in the celebration of the holy eucharist , upon any opinion of the corporal presence of the body of jesus christ on the holy table or in the mystical elements , but only for the advancement of gods majesty , and to give him alone that honour and glory that is due unto him and no otherwise . and in the practice or omission of this rite , we desire that the rule of charity prescribed by the apostle may be observed , which is , that they which use this rite despise not them who use it not , and they who use it not , condemn not those that use it . this is the full declaration of the sense of our church about it , made by those who met in convocation , and were most zealous for the practice of it . agreeably to this archbishop laud speaks , when this was charged as an innovation ; to this i answer , saith he , first , that god forbid that we should worship any thing but god himself . . that if to worship god when we enter into his house , or approach his altar be an innovation , it was a very old one , being practised by jacob , moses , hezekiah , &c. and were this kingdom such , as would allow no holy table standing in its proper place , yet i would worship god when i came into his house . and afterwards he calls it , doing reverence to almighty god , but towards his altar : and idolatry it is not to worship god towards his holy table . now with us the people did ever understand them fully and apply them to god , and to none but god. from whence it appears that god is looked on as the sole object of this act of worship , and that our church declares , that it allows no intention of exhibiting any religious worship to the communion table , or east or church , or any corporal presence of christ. . that the adoration allowed and practised in the church of england , is of a very different nature from the worship of images . for , ( as i have fully made it appear in the state of the controversie ) the church of rome doth by the decrees of councils , require religious worship to be given to images ; and that those who assert this inferiour worship do yet declare it to be truly religious worship , and that the images themselves are the object of it : ( whereas our church declares point-blank the contrary ) nay , that those persons are looked on by the generality of divines in the roman church , as suspected at least , if not condemned of heresie , who practise all the external acts of adoration to images , but yet do not in their minds look on them as objects , but only as occasions of worship , which make the difference so plain in these two cases , that t. g. himself could not but discern it . but to remove all scruple from mens minds , that suspect this practice to be too near the idolatrous worship , which we reject in the roman church , i shall consider it not only as to its object ( which is the main thing , and which i have shewed to be the proper object of worship , viz. god himself , and nothing else ) but as to the nature of the act , and the local circumstance of doing it towards the altar . . as to the nature of the act , so it is declared to be an act of external adoration of god ; which i shall prove from scripture to be a lawful and proper act of divine worship . i might prove it from the general consent of mankind , who have expressed their reverence to the deity by acts of external adoration , from whence i called it a natural act of reverence , but i rather choose to do it from scripture ; and that , both before the law had determined so punctually the matters of divine worship , and under the law by those who had the greatest regard to it ; and under the gospel , when the spiritual nature of its doctrine would seem to have superseded such external acts of worship . . before the law , i instance in abraham's servant ; because abraham is particularly commended for his care in instructing his houshold to keep the way of the lord in opposition to heathen idolatry , and this was the chief servant of his house , of whom it is said three times in one chapter , that he bowed his head worshipping the lord ; the hebrew words signifie , and he inclined and bowed himself to the lord ; for the word we translate worship doth properly signifie to bow , and both the iews and others say , it relates to some external act of the body , whereby we express our inward reverence or subjection to another . so it is said of the people of israel , when they heard that the lord intended to deliver them out of egypt , they bowed their heads and worshipped ; when moses declared the institution of the passeover to all the elders of israel , it is said again , the people bowed their heads and worshipped . . under the law ; when they were so strictly forbidden in the same words to bow down or worship any image or similitude ; yet the outward act of adoration towards god was allowed and practised . so moses commanded aaron and the seventy elders of israel to bow themselves a far off ; the very same word which is used in the second commandment . and when god had so severely punished the israelites for bowing to the golden calf ; yet when he appointed the pillar of fire for the symbol of his own presence , it is said , that when all the people saw the cloudy pillar stand at the tabernacle door , they rose up and bowed themselves every man in his tent-door . when god appeared to moses , it is said , that he made hast and bowed his head toward the earth and worshipped . and when moses and aaron came to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation , they are said to fall upon their faces . in the time of david , upon his solemn thanksgiving to god it is said , all the congregation blessed the lord god of their fathers , and bowed down their heads , and worshipped the lord and the king. and in the time of hezekiah , when they had made an end of offering , the king and all that were present with him bowed their heads and worshipped . . under the gospel ; we are to observe the difference between the same external act of worship , when it was used towards christ and toward his apostles . when the syrophoenician woman came to our saviour , in one place it is said , she worshipped him ; and in another , that she fell at his feet ; but in no place is there the least mention of any check given to her or any others , who after that manner worshipped christ : but when cornelius came to s. peter , and fell down at his feet and worshipped him , he would by no means permit it , but said , stand up , i my self also am a man : and when s. iohn fell down at the feet of the angel , he would not suffer it , but bade him worship god. that which i observe from hence is , that even under the gospel the external acts of religious adoration are proper and peculiar to god , so that men are to blame when they give them to any creature , but no persons are condemned for giving them to god. and i desire those who scruple the lawfulness of giving to god such external adoration under the gospel , how they can condemn those for idolatry , who give it to any creature , if it be not a thing which doth still belong to god ? but if all the scruple be about the directing this adoration , one way more than another , i say still it is done in conformity with the primitive church , as our canon declares , and which every one knows , did worship towards the east ; and this at the most is but a local circumstance of an act of worship , which i have already shewed to be very different from an object of it , when i discoursed of the nature of the israelites worshipping toward the ark and the cherubims . thus , through the assistance of god , i have gone through all the material points of t. g's book , which relate to the general nature of idolatry ; and have diligently weighed and considered every thing that looketh like a difficulty in this controversie about the worship of images , and do here sincerely protest , that i have not given any answer , or delivered any opinion which is not agreeable not only to the inward sense of my mind , but to the best of my understanding to the sense of scripture , and the primitive church , and the church of england . and if the subtilties of t. g. could have satisfied me , or any other argument i have met with , i would as freely have retracted this charge of idolatry , as i ever made it . for i do not love to represent others worse than they are ; but i daily pray to god to make both my self and others better : and therein i know i have the hearty concurrence of all who are truly good. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e cor. . . concil . tolet. . 〈…〉 marian. de rebus hisp. l. . c. , . marian. l. . c. . greg. registr . l. . ep . . notes for div a -e §. . t. g. p. . p. . p. . p. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . §. . act. . . v. . v. . p. . . . v. . euseb. praep. evang. l. . c. . minuc . felix in octav. p. . orig. c. cels. l. . orig. c. cels. l. . p. . ed. cant. orig. c. cels. l. . p. . &c. voss. de idolol . l. . c. . rom. . . v. . v. . v. . v. . §. . p. . . th. aquin. c. gent. l. . c. . in fin . id. l. . c. . aquin. sum. p. . q. . art . . possev . biblioth . l. . c. . thom. à iesu de convers . gent. l. . c. . cajet . in th. p. . q. . art . in aq. . . q. . art . . mart. peres . de divin . trad . part . . p. . ferus in act. . kirch . oedip . aegy. synt . . c. . c. . petav. dogm . the. to. . c. . §. . max. tyr. dissert . ▪ oros. 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. sect . . bellarm. de sanct . beatit . l. . c. . §. . t.g. p. . p. . t.g. p. . ceremon . rom. l. . sect . . §. . de invent. l. . c. . aqu. . . q. . art . , , , , . cajet . comment . in aq. . . q. . art . . aq. . . q. . art . . aqu. c. gentes c. . aq. . . q. . art . . art . . suarez in . p. q. . disp . . sect . . §. . mat. . ▪ tanner . to. . disp . . de rel. q. dub . . n. . vasquez in . p. thom. disp . . ● . . disp . . c. . bellarm. de sanct . beatit . l. . c. . arriag . in . p. th. disp . . sect . . n. . pujol de cultu adorat . disp . . sect . . in fin . aq. . . q. . art . . tanner . ubi supra . cajet . in aq. suarez in . p. disp . . sect . . vasquez . disp . . c. . pujol . ib. de sanct . beat . l. . c. . arriag . ad . p. disp . . sect . . in sine . suarez in . p. quest . . sect . . quest . . sect . . t.g. p. . disput. . sect . . cajet . in . . q. . art . . lugo de myst. incarn . disp . . sect . . n. , &c. §. . arrian de exped . alex. l. . curt. l. . plutarch vit . artaxerx . aelian . var. hist. l. . c. . iustin. l. . isocrat . panegyr . herod . l. . val. max. . c. . l plutarch in themist . t.g. p. . cajet . in aq. . . qu. . art . . t. g. p. , . §. . maimon . de idol . c. . sect . , , , . exod. . . aquin. . . q. . art . . t.g. p. . p. . bona de rebus liturg. l. . c. . bona append . p. . bellarm. de cultu sanct . l. . c. . aqu. . . qu. . art . . §. . mat. . . concil . nicen . . leonard ruben . de idolol . l. . c. . n. . bellar. de sanct . beatit . l. . c. aq. . . q. . art . , . ysambert . in . part . thom. ad q. . disp . . art . . damascen . orat . . p. . synod . . act. . vasq. in . p. disp . . c. . aug. de civit . dei. l. . c. suarez ad . p. th. q. disp . . sect . . vasquez ad . p. disp . . q. . art . . ysambert . ad . p. q. . desp . . art . . in fine . tanner . ad . p. disp . . de relig. q. . dub . . n. . t.g. p. . arriaga in . p. thom. disp. . sect . . n. . psal. . . aq. . . q. . art . . athanas. orat . . c. arrian . p. . exod. . . iosh. . . exod. . , , . . , . petav. de trinit . l. . c. . §. . innocent . . de myst. missae l. . c. . durand . ration . divin . offic . l. . c. ult . bellarm. de sanct . beatit . l. . c. . bona de reb . liturg. l. . c. . bellarm. de cultusanctorum l. . c. isidor . origin . l. . c. . turneb . advers . l. . c. . varro de ling. lat. l. . a. gell. l. . c. . isid. orig. l. . c. . mat. . mark . . luk. . trigaut . exped . sin. l. . c. . s. basil. ep . ad caesariens . ed. basil. p. ambros. desp . sancto . l. . c. . s. syril . thesaur . sid . l. . p. . s. august . ep . . c. sermon . arrian . c. . . c. maxim. l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . petav. de trinit . l. . c. . n. . §. . t. g. p. . exod. . . . king. . . bellarm. de imag . sanct . l. . c. . paul. maria quarti comment . in rubric missal . part . . tit . . sect . . dub . . catharin . de cultu & adorat . imaginum . p. . sander . de honorat . imaginum adorat . l. . p. . alan . copi dialog . . p. . vasquez in . p. disp . . art . . c. . t.g. p. . bellarm. de sanct . beat . l. . c. . ezek. . , , . §. . luk. . . t.g. p. . bellarm. de sanct. beatit . l. . c. , . perron replic . l. . p. . suarez in . p. th. fo . . disp . . sect . . de orat . l. . c. . deut. . . reuchlin . de arte cabalist . l. . vorstius in maim . de fund . legis p. , . abarb. de capite fidei c. . ad dub . . gen. . . athanas. c. arrian orat . . p. . cyrill . thesaur . assert . . p. . s. hier. in proverb . . maimon . ap . abrav . p. . abrav . de capite fidei c. . p. . maim . more nevoch . l. . c. . veri cultûs unitas , &c. auct . l.s. lond. . §. . aq. . . q. . . bellarm. de cultu sanct . l. . c. . cajet . in aq. ib. de sanct . beat . l. . c. . §. . august . de consens . evangel . l. . c. . orig. c. cels. l. . p. . hilar. de trinit . l. . p. . chrysost. hom . . ad pop . antioch . cor. . . . s. john . . §. . t.g. p. , . ● . t.g. p. , &c. p. , , . p. . §. . epiphan . haer . . baron . a. . n. . bellar. de r. pont. l. . c. . b●●on . not . in martyrol . rom. decemb. . t. g. p. . de civit. dei , l. . c. . de verae relig. c. . aq. . . q. . art . . greg. de valent. de idolol . l. . c. . tanner . to . . disp . . q. . dub . . t. g. p. . cicero de divin . l. . c. . bellarm , de' sanct. beat. l. . c. . §. . t. g. p. . p. . p. . suarez de virtut . relig . to. . l. . c. . gul. paris . rhet. div. c. . §. . t.g. p. . t.g. p. . p. . t.g. p. . renat . rapini odarum liber p. . paris . . §. . franc. horant . loc. catholic . l. . p. . ed. ven. cop. dialog . . martin . peres . ayal . de tradit . part . . p. . t.g. p. . lud. viv. in aug. de civ . dei l. . c. . t.g. p. . polyd. virg. de invent. rer. l. . c. . c. . cassand . consuit . art . . erasm. eccles . l. . §. . orig. c. cels. l. . p. . l. . p. . l. . p. . p. . t.g. p. . ricard . de laud. mariae l. . p. . euseb. hist. eccles. l. . c. . t.g. p. . t.g. p. , . p. . t.g. p. . t.g. p. . plin. l. . ep . . greg. naz. orat . . in iul. iac. gothofred . iulian orat . p. . cod. theodos . . tit . . l. . §. . s. cyrill . c. iulian. l. . p. . c. iul. l. . p. . p. . l. . p. . §. . t.g. p. . aug. de ver . rel. c. . tract . . in evang. ioh. de quantit . an . c. . aug. ep . . de civ . dei l. . . l. . c. . c. . de ver . rel. c. . mart. peres . de trad . p. . cons. . q. in exod. . t.g. p. . cicer. verr. . in catil . plin. hist. nat . l. . c. . macrob. saturn . l. . c. . serv. in aeneid . . arnob. c. gent. l. . de civ . dei , l. . t.g. p. . c. faust. manich. l. . c. . de civit. dei , l. . c. . forbs considerat . mod. p. . t.g. p. . aug. serm . de temp. . de divers . serm . . ambr. l. . epist. . iust. apol. . p. . concil . laodic . c. . constit. apost . l. . c. . l. . c. , , , , , , . dionys. hierarch . c. . sect. . concil . nicen . c. , , . t.g. p. . bona de rebus liturg. l. . c. . chrys. hom . . ad pop . antioch . aug. de ser. dominî in monte l. . c. . de verb. dom. in evang. secundum luc. ser. . aug. ep . . aug. retract . l. . c. . ep. . codex eccles . afric . c. . tertull. de orat . c. . c. . de exhort . cast . c. . in evang. ioh. tract . . notes for div a -e §. . disc. of idol . ch . . sect . . acts . , , . rom. . v. . v. . v. , . trigant . de christ. exped . apud sinas l. . c. . p. ch. . sect. . clem. strom. . p. . orig. c. cels. l. . p. . ch. . sect. . §. . t.g. p. . thucydid . l. . ioh. lorin . in act. ap. c. . v. . serv. in . aen. corn. à lap. in loc . est. in difficil . loc . ad loc . cicer. de nat. deor. l. . lactant. de ira dei , c. . epiph. haet . . aug. de haet . c. . neceph . hist. l. . c. . pamel . de paradox . tertull. c. . petav. dogm . theol . to. . l. . c. . sect . . §. . petav. i● . sect . . tertull. de resur . carn . c. . aug. steuc . eugub . cosmop . p. . t. g. p. . t.g. p. . p. . cajet . in loc . lorin . in loc . aug. . c. cresc . c. . in ep . ad rom. c. . isid. pelus . l. . ep . . ioh. ferus in act. . p. . corn. à lap. in act. . . thess. . . t. g. p. . horae secundum usum roman . in litaniis . §. . cajet . in loc . vasquez in loc . esti . in loc . bed. in loc . orig. c. cels. l. . p. . §. . herod . melp . p. solin . polyhist . clem. alex. in prot. p. , . arnob. l. . am. marcell . l. . iust. l. . liv. l. . claud. de raptu proserp . max tyr. diss . . suid. in ver . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 euthym. in saracen . sylburgii , p. . pocock not . ad spec . histor. arab . p. . p. ● , . p. . max. tyr. ib. paus. laconic . p. . ed. sylburg . achaic . p. . paus. boeot . p. . p. . p. . hesych . v. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 harpocr . p. . suid. in v. steph. v. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cambden in brit. p. . ola. worm . monum . danic . viaggi . p. . lett. . s. . p. . p. . lett . . n. . p. . t.g. p. , . p. . herod . l. . p. . herod . l. . sect . . viaggi p. . p. . id. p. . lamprid. vit . anton. heliogab . caroli putini numismata p. . tristan comment . histor . p. . salmas . in histor. aug. script . p. . euseb. praep. ev. l. . c. . pocock . not . ad specim . p. . hotting . hist. orient . l. . c. . p. , , . vinc. bellovac . spec . histor. l. . c. . scal. de emend . temp. l. . ● . . maim . de idol . c. . sect . . pocock . not. p. . elias in thisbi p. . buxtorf . lex . talmud . in v. markolis . scalig. de emend . templ . l. . & . pocock . not . in spec . p. . maim . de idol . c. . sect . . damasc. de haeres . p. . p. . pocock . not . in spec . p. . scallg . not . in fragm . vet. p. . id. in euseb . chron. n. . grot. in gen. . vossius , selden . aliíque . bochart . canaan . l. . c. . clem. alex. str. l. . minut. felix . p. . arnob. l. . p. . apul. florid . l. . theophrast . char . de superstit . aug. de civ . dei l. . c. . phot. cod. . p. . max. tyr. diss . . tristan . comment . histor . tom. . p. . sueton. in vespas . c. . plut. de frat . amore p. . eustath . ad iliad . ● . tacit. de morib . germ. c. . t. g. p. . §. . plin. l. . c. . quint. l. . curt. l. . codex afric . c. . capit. caroli l. . tit . c. . l. . tit . . leg. longobard . l. . tit . . n. . canis . antiq . lect. to. . p. . serrar . rer. mog . l. . not . . agath . histor . l. . p. . s. aug. dom. . post trin. ser. . concil . to let . . 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theol. scholast . in . tom. aug. ad . quaest . p. ad sin . pujol de sacro ador . cultu disp . . sect . . p. . p. . p. . tanner . to. . disp . ● q. . dub . . assert . . ysamber . de myster . incarn . ad q. . disp . . eligii bassaei flores theolog. practic . v. adorat . n. . ed. . ●r . sylvius in . p. th. q. . art . . q. . arriag . de incarn . disp . . sect . . sect. . lugo de myster . incarn . disp . . sect . ● . n. . §. . t. g. p. , &c. act. . p. . damasc. oral . . p. . aquin. . . q. . art . a. ad . aug. in ps. . conc . . concil . nicen . . act . . p. . aug. de trin. l. . c. . act. . p. . act. . p. . act. . p. . t. g. p. , . lib. carol. l. . c. . act. . p. . §. . pro desensione sacra . imagin . centur. . c. . aq. . p. q. . art . . ad lib. sent . . dist . . q. . est. in sent . l. . dist . . sect . . cathar . de imag. p. . sylv. in . p. q. . art . . q. . alex. hales . p. q. . m. . art . . sect . ● pitts de scriptor . aetat . . a. . bonav . in sent . . dist . . q. . ric. de media villa in 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introit . sect . . dub . . & . greg. valent . in hymnod . eccles. tr . . hymn . . p. . paul. lay-man . theol. moral . l. . tr . . c. . n. . elig . bassae . flores theol. practi● . tit . ador. suppl . n. , . ph. gamachae . in . p. th. q. . con . . ysambert . ad q. . disp . . art . . & disp . . art . . azor. i●●lit . moral . l. . c. . § . cathaer . de cultu imagin . p. . p. . martin . peres . ayal . de tradit . . p. de imagin . p. . . est. in sentent . l. . dist . . sect . . §. . vasquez disp . ● . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . disp. . c. . c. . suarez disp . . sect . . disp. . sect . . bellarm. de cultu imag. l. , , , , , . pujol de cultu ador . disp . . sect . . assert . . assert . . ysambert . ad q. . disp . . art . . lugo de myst. incarn . disp . . sect . . arriag . de incarn . disp . . sect . . subs . . n. . l. . petav. de incarn . l. . c. . n. . §. . pontificale rom. ordo ad recip . imperat. rubr. . pontific . in benedict . novae crucis . sacrar . cerem . l. . c. de consecr . agnus 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. c. . strab. l. . diodor. l. . plut. de isid. boch . de anim. sacr. l. . c. §. . kings . , . t. g. p. ●● . kings . . t. g. p. . kings . . t.g. p. . v. . v. , . kings . , , , , . t. g. p. . t.g. p. . §. . t.g. p. . t.g. p. . §. . t. g. p. , , . rational account , p. . dr. still . still against dr. still . a.d. . infallibility of the roman catholick church against dr. still . by e. w. . preface . answer to several treatises , first part , p. , &c. dr. still . still against dr. stîll . p. . p. . p. . p. ● , &c. §. . i.w. p. . king. . , . kings . , . . , , , . . . kings . . . . . . . . . , . . . kings . . . . hosea . , . . . amos . . . . micah . , . answer first part gener. pres . in sin . part . ch. . sect . . concil . nicen . . act . . p. . act. . p. . epiph. haer . . n. . socr. l. . c. . sozom. l. . c. . baron . ad a.d. . n. . theod. l. . c. . baron . ad a. . c. . athanas. ap . ad antioch . p. . ruffin . hist. eccles. l. . c. . hieron . advers . luciferian . init . §. . t.g. p. . t.g. p. . to . t.g. p. . §. . t.g. p. . p. . p. . rom. . . psal. . . vasquez hisp. . c. . lugo de mysterio incarn . disp . . sect. . §. . t. g. p. , . t. g. p. . vasq. ubi sup . lugo ubi sup . n. . n. . arriag . de myster . incarn . disp . . sect . . subject . . n. . ysamb. de myster . incarn . ad qu. . disp . . art . . §. . t.g. p. . p. . carol. de imag. l. . c. . act. . p. . baron . ad a. d. . n. . christian. lup. in conc. t. . p. . theoph. chrongr . p. . histor. miscell . l. . p. . act. . p. . bin. not . in concil . nic. . concil . nic. act. . p. , . lup. not . in can. concil . sept. to. . p. . adriani epist. synod . nic. to. . concil . p. . p. ▪ t.g. p. . §. . theoph. chron. p. . paul. diacon . l. . p. . photii epist. . p. . baron . a. d. . n. . ib. n. . anast. vit . hadrian . . p. . concil . gener. tom. . p. . §. . sirmond . adm . de can. . concil . francford . t.g. p. spalat . de rep. eccles. l. . c. . n. . waldens . tom. . tit. . c. ▪ n. . §. . sirmond . admon . to. . concil . p. . pet. de marcâ de concord . sacerd. l. . c. . n. . petav. de incarn . l. . c. . n. . sur. admon . ad lect. de concil . franc. cop. dial. . c. , . sander . de imag. c. . suar. in . p. th. disp . . sect . . concil . gener. to. . p. . theop. chronogr . p. . gab. biel. in can. miss . c. . p. pithei praefat . ad histor . pauli diac. annales eccles. franc. ad a. d. . n. . to. . n. . t.g. p. . carol. de ●ag . l. . c. . t.g. p. . hincmar . opusc. c. . p. . carol. l. . c. . petav. d● incarn . l. . c. . n. . cassan. ep . . bellarm. de concil . l. . c. . baron . ad a. . n. . carol. de imag. l. . c. . petav. de incarn . l. . c. . n. , . eginhardi annales a. d. . histor. franc. script . coaetan . tom. . & . §. . t.g. p. . bell. de script . eccles. a. . biblioth . patr. to. . p. . p. . p. . walafrid . strabo de reb . eccles. l. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . baron . a.d. . n. . t.g. p. . baluz . no● . in agob . p. . papir . masson . synops. agob . c. . agobard . de imag. c. . . hincmar , ubi supr . cusan . de concord . cathol . l. ● . c. . anast. biblioth . praefat . in sept . synod . gesner . biblioth . to. . v. leo. cassand . ep. . nicet . choniat . l. . is. angeli . baron . a. . n. . biblioth . patr. to. . p. . auctur . biblioth . patr. to. . . p. pithaei praes . ad pauli diac . hist. §. . lib. carol. de imag. l. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . l. . c. . . c. . l. . c. . . c. . c. . c. . . l. . c. . c. . c. . t.g. p. . zach. . . t.g. p. . t.g. p. . t.g. p. . t.g. p. . t.g. p. . §. . t.g. p. . t.g. p. . t.g. p. , §. . t.g. p. , . p. . p. . t.g. p. . t.g. p. , . t.g. p. . t.g. ib. §. . t.g.p. . t. g. ib. p. . t.g.p. . t.g.p. , . §. . t.g. p. ▪ book of canons , . c. . defence of the answ. tr . . c. . div . . fulk against rhem. phil. . . andrew's ser. . of resur . speech in star-chamb . p. . suarez in . p. th. q. . disp . . . art . . sect . . paul. maria quarti in rubr. misse p. , . §. . t.g. p. . canons and constit . c. . . speech in star-chamber . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . gen. . . gen. . , , . pet. picherell . de imag. p. . exod. . . . . . . . . . . . . numb . . . chron. . . chron. . . matth. . . mark . . acts . , . revel . . . . . fanaticism fanatically imputed to the catholick church by doctour stillingfleet and the imputation refuted and retorted / by s.c. a catholick ... cressy, serenus, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing c estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) fanaticism fanatically imputed to the catholick church by doctour stillingfleet and the imputation refuted and retorted / by s.c. a catholick ... cressy, serenus, - . stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. s.n.], [douay? : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to serenus cressy. cf. nuc pre- . issued also in a collection of several treatises in answer to dr. stillingfleet, . letter to sir marc-albert d'ognate signed: s.c. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title 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review (qc) and xml conversion fanaticism fanatically imputed to the catholick church by doctour stillingfleet : and the imputation refuted and retorted by s. c. a catholick o. s. b. psalm . lxxi . . iudicabit pauperes populi ▪ & humiliabit calumniatorem . proverb . xxvi . . as a madman vvho casteth fire-brands , arrovvs , and death : so is the man that vvrongeth his neighbour , and saith , am not i in sport ? m.dc.lxxii . permissu superiorum . to the right honourable sir marc-albert d'ognate knight , counsellour to his catholick majesty , commissary for renevving of magistrats in the province of flanders , president of the chamber of commerce and navigation , and envoyé from the king of spain to his majesty of great brittain . sir , it had been to be vvished that vve might have concealed from strangers the stains of our nation , and that they might remain ignorant that neither fidelity to our prince , nor charity to our fellovv-subjects can secure catholicks from the vvorst effects of vvar in the midst of peace : such is the virulence of one malignant party : vvho though they enioy their lives by an unmerited pardon of their rebellion , vvill never pardon us for our loyalty . in most countreyes of europe there are agitated dayly disputes and controversies about religion , and in books on each side ordinarily some sharpness is mingled . but in england our lott must be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , vve are forced to contend vvith adversaries vvhose minds by our late tumults are rendred savage and implacable . they to spite us , resume a nevv vvar against heaven it self , deriding and blaspheming the saints in glory . and against gods church on earth they frame accusations never heard of before , making her greatest vertues passe for the directly opposite greatest crimes . the most saintly exercises of persons among us consecrated to god and entirely subiect to authority are disgracefully stiled fanaticism : because vve vvill not be chusers each one of his ovvn faith , vve are accused to have an enthusiastick vvay of religion : vvee exercise charity to our freinds deceased , and that is called an impediment of deuotion : vve teach ( as our saviour did ) that the vvay to heaven is strait , and consequently that to enter into it vve must practise confession of sins , pennances , mortifications , praying , fasting , alms-giving &c. and for this vve are charged to be hinderers of piety and a good life : our acknovvledging an authority in gods church to end controversies is called an effectuall mean to multiply them : if out of compassion to persons guilty of schism , and out of a tender love to vnity any one among us strains his vvitts to persvvade our adversaries that the distance betvveen us is not so vast as some of them seem vvilling to conceive , his recompense must be contemptuous revilings : no pagans or cannibals must be esteemed so blindly , so horribly i dolatrous , no quakers so ridiculously frantick , no fifth-monarchists so dangerous both to church and state. these enormous excesses vvich have been lately exposed to the vvorld in a stile partly burlesque and partly tragicall vvere never heard of in any other nation but england , and only of late in england , and i hope , for the credit of our nation , are not taken notice of by many strangers living here , and thereby less in danger to be published abroad . but from you , sir , they could not be concealed , since your zeal to catholick religion makes you inquisitive into all things that concern it , and your perfect knovvledge in our language renders all our books as intelligible to you , as if vvritten in your ovvn . my hope novv is that you being vvell acquainted vvith the present temper of our nation , vvill judge aright , that a book vvritten in such a stile , and vvholly composed of malignant passions and nevv-invented calumnies against gods church vvas only the private design of a malicious brain on purpose to feed the exulcerated minds of a , malevolent party among us , and consequently not to be imputed to any other besides . the affection you bear to our nation , from vvhich you are not quite , even in blood , a stranger , encourages mee to expect thus much iustice from you . as for my self , i being , i hope , not the only person , engaged in the defence of truth and innocence against malice and calumny , am desirous to address to you this my ansvver , as a testimony of my gratefull resentment of the favour and honour you have been pleased to conferr generously on mee , in allovving mee a share in your freindship : the comfortable effects vvhereof have likevvise been extended to an afflicted community abroad , recommended by mee to your protection . but besides this , a far greater obligation both my self and all loyall english subjects have to honour you for your constant respect , duty , and assistance vvhich you have allvvayes vvith great zeale shevved to his sacred majesty and his cause , vvhen he vvas inhumanly treated by the same party , vvhich novv so inhumanly treats his faithfull catholick subjects . in vvhich fatall conjuncture also , his banished freinds and servants found in your house hospitality and kindness vvhich vvith them had been banished out of england . i beseech you , sir , accept this address as a gage of gratitude , honour and respect from , sir , your devoted servant in our lord. s. c. to the reader . the report is very current that doctour stillingfleet wonders , and even complains that , having made a generall formall challenge to catholicks to come openly into the field against him being ready with weapons in his hand , he cannot yet have the contentment to give further proof of his skill and courage against them . but surely it is not for the doctors credit to make such a complaint , when the world knows how all passages into the field are stoppd and even walled up , i will not say , by himself , yet at least by his partizans ; how stationers apprehend greater danger in publishing answers to his book , then any books of sedition or treason ; and how during the space of a few months since his last book saw the light , searches into presses have been more sollicitously exact , and more frequent dayly and hourly , then they have been all the years taken together since his majesties restauration , inquisitors searching into every hole , turning over every small paper , and rigorously examining both maisters and servants whether any thing has been written against doctour stillingfleet . how securely now may the doctor triumph , and as oft as he pleases , multiply his challenges of defiance against catholick adversaries so bound hand and foot : and at how cheap a rate has he gotten ( from tradesmen and gossips ) immortall honour by a book , then which england never to this day saw any one , pretending to controversy , more harmless to the church he professes to oppose , nor more destructive to the church he professes to defend . now whether this be not a true character of it , i do willingly and confidently stand to the judgment of any learned and considering protestant reader who shall think fit to peruse the following treatise . notwithstanding it cannot be denyed but that the doctor has used a wonderfull dexterity in mannaging this controversy : for though his book proves in effect exceeding harmless to the common cause of catholicks , and though all the weapons made use of by him against the catholick faith really want both edges and points of sufficient sharpnes and strength to make an entrance into the rock on which our saviour has built his church , yet they pierce into the very bowells of the persons , fortunes and condition of english catholicks , whose destruction he seems to design . and on the other side , though the same weapons do draw out the very heart-blood of the english church , yet he pretends all the way , and seems to be acknowledged by them a champion of its cause , and not to intend the least harm to the prelats and subiects of it . cicero was wont to say , that he thought any one roman augur could not without smiling look upon another augur , considering what large preferments and honours they enioyed by befooling the whole roman common-weale with their ridiculous fopperies . the like smile of secret intelligence passes between the doctor and his ancient brethren . for a great pleasure it must needs be to them to see him in his new dress , in his surplice and scarlet-hood , so canonically defending out of the pulpitt the church of england , or brandishing his sword against her adversaries in printed volumes ; but so defending it , as not to do the least harm to the old cause : not one word falls from his tongue or pen to give his now prelats warning of their danger from presbyterians , independents , latitudinarians and other sects , though all these conspiring against them had held their necks so many years of late under their feet . but nothing can be more ridiculous to those sectaries ( nor truly more deserving detestation from all loyall subiects ) then to see the same sectaries quondam friend doctour stillingfleet zealously pretending a care of the safety of his majesty and the state against the seditious writings and practises of ill-principled subiects , and at the same time , as if he thought the world by vertue of the act of oblivion had quite forgott the last twenty years troubles , naming none but catholicks as such ill-principled subiects , who yet alone among all dissenters from the english church had all of them unanimously adhered to his majesty , and for his majesties sake had defended also the said church against the doctor and his brethren in evill , the sectaries . the plain truth is , the doctors collusion and prevarication in his book seems to me so visible and so insupportable , that it is a shame that hitherto not one true prelaticall protestant has appeared as a defender of the english church and state against him : but on the contrary even some english prelats themselves have congratulated and boasted of his supposed succesfull endeavours against the catholick church , though ruinous only to themselves . indeed it was the doctors master-piece by his drollery to putt protestants into a fitt of laughing , that being in so good an humour they might drink down the poyson he presented them . this poyson , it seems , does not yet sensibly work with them , and therefore they neglect to provide antidots . well : all j can say is , viderint ipsi . but they may also do well to consider that to this hour they have not from this defender of the church of england seen one line which was not more to the advantage of their enemies , the sectaries , then of their own church . so that abating severall hundred pounds of yearly preferments , he still is what he was before his majesties return . he was pleased to stile some late catholick writers by the name of ratts , for not answering line by line his great volume : he must give me leave to make use of his metaphor another way , applying it to himself . it is a common observation among mariners that when they see a ship suddenly freed from ratts formerly abounding there , they conclude that there are some leaks in it , unobserved by any but the ratts themselves , which threaten its sudden sinking . now let any one judge wherther the doctour by publishing his principles has not stolln out of the church of england : ( yet with a latitudinarian conscience holding fast his preferments : ) and does not this argue that the ratt foresees , or shrewdly suspects some danger to the ship , and therefore provides for his own safety , by returning to the same sects which uncessantly plott against it , and , it is to be feared , against the civill state too ? it is a sad thing therefore that not one protestant will open his eyes , and give warning of the dangerous proceedings of their champion . now whether that task and duty deserted by them , has not been efficaciously enough undertaken and performed by the authour of the following treatise . j leave to all indifferent iudges to determine . they are also hereby entreated to impute the delay of this answer to the true cause above mentioned , or indeed to any thing rather then to the least guilty apprehension which catholicks may have of encountring such an adversary as the doctour is supposed to be by persons who are perswaded that an insolent confidence must needs be accompanied with reason and truth . and for such persons , so qualified , no doubt , it was that the doctor wrote his book , not to instruct them , but to imprint his own enormous passions in their minds . whereas readers of but ordinary capacity and prudence will easily perceive that it was a consciousness of his own inability to cast any prejudice on the received doctrins and discipline of the catholick church her-self that forced him to indulge to his fancy and invention to expose to contempt and hatred of unwary readers the opinions and practises of a few particular persons among catholicks , not alwayes faithfully related by him , and most of them already censured by superiours . but that which has gained to him the most of his applauding readers is his acting the theologicall zani , after a fashion altogether new and unexpected , whilst he most ridiculously imputes fanaticism to the catholick church , of which never any heretick before him suspected her capable . my last request to the reader is that seeing this treatise written in a stile so unpractised hitherto by mee , and indeed so contrary to mine own inclination , he will interpret it aright , and believe that j judged my self obliged to neglect complements of civility to such an adversary . if he had written like one that sought out truth , j should have condemned my self if any phrases of bitterness had escaped my pen. but in answering such a mass of buffonry mixed with rancour and malice , the wise man has taught me my duty . proverb . xxv . . of fanaticism §. . the authours motive of writing this treatise . doctour stillingfleets three heads of accusation against the catholick church , &c. . the authour of this following treatise may with confidence profess , that it was not from a resentment of severall contemptuous aspersions cast on him by doctour stillingfleet in his lately published book , that he was induced to write this answer . for who would not glory in suffring any scorns or calumnies , when merited only for recommending to devout christians instructions for the practise of christian vertues and piety in the greatest perfection that this life is capable of ? his motiues therefore of writing and publishing this discourse were first his obedience to certain freinds whose commands he ought in no wise to resist : and then a just indignation in seeing the most sacred things and persons in the catholick church selected on purpose by him , to be contaminated with his inck full of gall and poyson , thereby imprudently ministring new aims to atheists ( against whom as a considerable and growing sect among them , he and others begin to preach and write ) by shewing , to his utmost ability , that all the religion professed in the world , and that thing that bare the name of a catholick church for so many ages ▪ before the times of luther and calvin , was nothing , for their worship , but idolatry ; for their devotions , but fanaticism : and for their doctrine and disciplin ; nothing but faction , ambition and avarice . . the task therefore here imposed being to answer in the doctours last book , not the points of controversy between the catholick church and protestants ( reserved for a more learned pen of his worthy antagonist ) but those discourses in his book ( and principally touching fanaticism ) in which the doctour seems not to have intended to employ his talent of reasoning , but to discharge his excess of spleen and choler and to give free scope to all vnchristian and even in human passions , the authour hopes he shall not deserve justly a censure from the reader , if he endeavour here to defend the truth with as much zeal and confidence as his adversary hath assaulted it : so long as nothing passeth from him that any way woundeth christian charity , nor any sharpness is used , but such as may , through gods grace prove beneficiall to him , and his applauding readers . . now in the doctours book there are three heads of accusation selected by him with intention to disgrace , and fright his readers from the communion of the catholick church , by imputing to her . . that she is guilty of severall opinions and practises which hinder devotion and a good life . . that fanaticism is not only countenanced by her , but made a ground of believing some doctrins , of making some ecclesiasticall ordonnanes , of erecting religious orders , and ●kewise of resisting lawfull authority . . that there are among her subiects divisions about doctrins of great moment and no possibility of reducing dissenting parties to vnity or obedience . . these accusations my purpose is to refute , and for his proofs of them , to shew the invalidity of those which are pretended by him to regard the church her self . but as for such as regard the opinions or actions of particular persons , and which fill up the far greatest number of his leaves , some thing shall be said to those among them which seem of any considerable moment , and the rest shall be neglected , as needing no answer , though never so truly alledged by him . and having done this , i will , as i am perswaded , with much greater confidence , retort the same heads of his accusations upon himself , demonstrating that his protestant churches , as principled by him . . doe evidently undermine the foundations of piety and a good life . . that the essence of his religion is meer fanaticism , in his own sence of the word : and that it iustifies rebellion against the civill magistrate . . that by the grounds of his religion all manner of divisions and schims are not only excusable but lawfull , and withall incurable . . he will perhaps , when he sees his large book pretended to be sufficiently answered in a few sheets of paper , renew the scornfull complaint made by him in his preface , that those who in , some small measure have attempted to answer him , have performed it in a way that ratts answer books , by gnawing some of the leaves of them , the body and design of them remaining wholly untouched by them . now who those persons are whom he is pleased to resemble to ratts , i can only iudge by guess : and if i guess aright , particularly of one authour , i could make it appear to the doctour , that the very bowells and most vitall parts of his great volume have been eaten through and consumed by that his adversary . . however , i conceive he wil not have iust reason to apply this metaphor to the authour of this present treatise , since it was his own fault , by heaping together a great masse of rubbage and stuff altogether impertinent , to make a short answer sufficient . does he think his adversaries , in case they were allowed the liberty and commodity of publishing large volumes , so much at leasure as to follow him step by step in examining quotations , and answering obiections which are of no moment whether they be true or false ? he may by such a way of writing beget in the minds of the vulgar sort of readers a high opinion of the vastnes of his unnecessary reading , and his well-furnished library : but his adversaries will be much to blame if they trouble themsselves with defending every old story , or personall imputations : or indeed , if hereafter they engage themselves in any controversy with him , except in points pretended by him of such consequence as to iustify a necessity in protestants of separating from the catholick church ▪ and few such points are to be found in his books . . but moreover , as short an answer as this is , he wil have less reason to say , that the body and design of his book will remain wholly untouched in it . he may indeed perhaps have some ill design in publishing ( as it were by conspiracy with others ) a book so voyd of christian charity and moderation : which design may remain untouched by mee , because i am unwilling to declare the grounds of my coniectures moving me to look upon it as an ominous ill-boading book , fore-running some expected mischeif . but for the body of his book , that is , whatsoever appears to me in it of consequence , it is truly a very slender dwarfish body , being almost entirely contained in a few sheets at the beginning , and in the last single sheet which enwraps his protestant principles . the publishing of which principles was truly an act of commendable ingenuity and confidence also : for i think he is the first protestant-controvertist who upou such a tender subiect has appeared bare-faced out of the clouds . and moreover i may take leave to tell him that from a heedfull consideration of those his principles i do collect that he and myself are of the same iudgment in one matter of great importance , viz. that no shew of reason or conscience can be pretended to escape from the authority of the catholick church but by renouncing entirely ( as he has done in his principles ) all ecclesiasticall ( or even civill ) authority : and by consequence that no churches proceed logically in asserting the grounds of their religion , but only catholicks or single-independents . the reason hereof is , because for any ecclesiasticall superiours to acknowledge any obligation lying on thers subiects to submitt to their authority , and at the same time to preferr the authority of a particular church before that of the vniversall , which is the fountain of all authority , is to putt out their subiects eyes , and to hale them after them with chains . and above all other congregations the tyranny of presbyterians is most brutish , who after a denyall of all visible authority extant before them , endeavour violently to subdue mens consciences to the jurisdiction of their classes , erected upon controverted texts of scripture , as interpreted by themselves alone . . the doctours principles therefore being by far the most materiall part of his book , it is not notwithstanding my business in this treatise to examine them apart one by one , or to trouble my self with making a setled iudgment whether of the two fore-named parties , catholicks or independents has the most solid reasons on their side . for being engaged to make reflexions on that part of his book which is of least importance , writen in an immodest , uncivill , petulant stile , it was not fitt in my answer to mingle considerations on a subiect so serious , and soberly expressed as his principles are , which indeed deserve to be examined separately with all possible calmness and impassionateness , as being an argument on which all other controversies do depend , and which one way or other makes an end of them all . . yet for all this , it was not possible for me to avoyd all mention of his principles in this answer to a different subiect : since ( as hath been already intimated , and will be seen by the sequele ) whatsoever charge he brings against the catholick church , and which i pretend here to refute , does scarce at all touch her , but lyes most heavily and unmoveably upon his principles , and on any church acknowledging or adopting them . he must therefore dispose himself , with the greatest patience he can , to be put in mind more then once or twice of his principles and the fatall consequences of them . from which consequences till he can effectually clear them , he will have little cause to call , as he hath done , for an answer to his former large volume . for if it shall appear , by the ruine of his , that the principles of catholick religion only are solide and inexpugnable ; that is , that the catholick church is indeed , and to be acknowledged the pillar and ground of truth , from whose authority no appeal is to be admitted , then both his former and latter books are thereby sufficiently refuted , as far as they condemn or but question any doctrins whatsoever determined by her . this being once established , he will find his books , not having a few leaves gnawed by ratts , but unà liturâ entirely abolished . §. . a vindication of the honour and sanctity of s. benedict &c from the doctours contumelious imputations . . having given this account of the motiue and design of this treatise , it is time to take into consideration the forementioned heads of accusation layd by the doctour against the catholick church , which he thinks of sufficient weight to deterre any one from ioyning in her communion . i will begin with that touching fanaticism , which though the second in his order , yet principally concerned me to disprove , and particularly that part of it which contains an invective against the life and prayer of contemplation commended and practised only in the catholick church , it being a state which from the infancy of the church hath been esteemed the nearest approching to that of glorified saints ; from whence notwithstanding he has taken occasion to vilify in particular the authour of this ensuing treatise : who is very well content to receive his proportion of scorn with such companions , as thaulerus , suso , rusbrochius , blosius &c. . now the doctour , to the end he might make an entrance into his in vective with better grace , has prepared a way thereto , then which a more proper could not be found for such a purpose , by producing on his stage , antickly disgvised , the famous teachers and erectours of schools for contemplation , s. benedict , s. romuald , s. bruno , s. francis , s. dominick and s. ignatius : so exposing them like blind samson to the derision of profane readers : for from such only can he expect an applause for his impiously employed wit : and he will find in the end , except repentance prevent it , that selius his argument in the epigrammatist wil prove a dangerous fallacy . . and to the end he may not too much boast of the novelty of his invention , and his profanely employed witt , i doe assure him that i my self , being then a young student in oxford , was witness of a far greater , and if fancy alone be considered , far better deserved applause given to a preather , who in a repetition-sermon to the vniversity , descanting on the whole life of our saviour , rendred him and his attendants , men and women , obiects of the utmost scorn and a version , as if they all of them had been only a pack of dissolute vagabonds and cheats . this the preacher performed , taking on him the person of a iewish pharisee and persecutour of christ. and he performed it so to the life , that he would have shamed lucian , and raised envy in the doctour himself . but presently upon it , changing his stile as became a disciple of christ , he with such admirable dexterity and force of reason answered all the cavillations and invectives before made , that the loudly repeated applauses of his hearers hindred him a good space from proceeding . notwithstanding this , the grave doctours and governours of the vniversity , though much satisfied with his intellectuall abilities , yet wisely considering that a petulant , histrionicall stile even in obiections , did not befitt so sacred a subiect , and that it was not lawfull to personate too naturally a deriding iew , obliged the preacher to a publick recantation-sermon in the same pulpit the sunday following . and this deservedly , for vitium simulari non potest , virtus potest . . if the doctour would now make a second essay of his witt and invention on severall stories as we find them recorded in holy scripture , he would perhaps find his fancy as inventive , and if nature had denyed him , the devill would , no doubt , once more furnish him with expressions as apt to move the spleen and laughter of his present applauding readers , as any are now found in his book : by which means he perhaps may arrive at the glory to be acknowledged the head of a new sect of the ecclesiae malignantium . and unless report deceives us , there are already severall books of the holy bible descanted upon in a stile like to his , and it may be the unhappy authours conceive that the same press may ( without an imprimatur ) be allowed them also . . it is not now my purpose to make a particular vindication of each saint traduced by him . but considering the publick interest obliging the whole western patriarchat , and most especially england to be tender of the honour of s. benedict , by whose disciples , if they were fanaticks , christianity has been established among us , and in veneration to whom such a world of religious houses and churches have been erected and enriched with vast possessions , i can not , without renouncing my duty as a christian , religious man , and an english man , by silence conspire to his dishonour : the rather , because to my best remembrance i never knew that any of the english church since the reformation did ever cast any scornfull aspersions on his memory : and i believe the doctour will scarce find any one hereafter willing to imitate his malignant ingratitude . . now what is it that the doctour layes to the charge of s. benedict ? the whole charge consists in repeating after a ridiculons manner certain passages of s. benedicts life written by s. gregory : as . how being a child he by his prayers obtained a miracle for the consolation of his nurse , a monument of which miracle remained publickly visible many years after . . how he lived three years with wonderfull austerity in a cave , unknown to any but s. romanus , who to the devills despight furnished him with necessary food . . how he rolled himself in thorns to conquer his amorous passions . . how he was enabled by supernaturall revelations and lights to spy out devills , to discover things absent and foretell things to come , to be a spectatour of the soule of his sister s. scholastica in the shape of a dove going up to heaven , and to see all the world in uno radio solis , &c. . by this brief account of the life and actions of s. benedict , all which the doctour expects that his readers should esteem to be meer fanaticall lyes and forgeries , his intention seems to be to convict both s. benedict and s. gregory of lying against the holy ghost , and ascribing to a divine power pretended miracles , visions &c. which either were not at all , or were sleights of leger-de-main . but what arguments does the doctour give to disparage s. gregories relation ? will he deny that any miracles were wrought by gods servants in that age ? if so , he will find it a hard task to defend himself against so many saints , learned and prudent men , who have testified that they have been eye-witnesses of many . he will not surely affirm ( though he is bold enough to affirm anything ) that such miracles , if reall , were proofs that the workers of them were fanaticks and deceivers . these things considered where will he hope to find readers who can be inwardly perswaded that what s. gregory relates is sufficiently confuted by his scornfull manner of repeating it in the new stile of a theological scarron ? or to iudge this a concluding argument ; s benedict wrought miracles , was favoured with supernaturall visions and revelations , therefore he is manifestly convicted of fanaticism ? and upon that fanaticism he instituted his religious order , for which he framed a fanaticall rule ? . now by fanaticism the doctour ays he intends an enthusiastick way of religion , that is , a religion built upon falsly pretended inspirations , illuminations &c. which definition being approved , with what shew of reason can the doctour accuse s. benedict of fanaticism ? for did s. benedict frame to himself a new religion ? did he make any the least alteration in the religion conveyed to him by tradition , and professed by the whole church ? had any of his visions or revelations any influence on his religion to make him introduce any innovations ? how was he then an enthusiast ? . but s. gregory affirms that he had revelations , inspirations and the guift of discerning spirits : and these things the doctor will needs call enthusiasms . surely he will not deny but that god may ; yea often has conferred on his servants , revelations of his will , in some speciall circumstances , which are not in the doctors sence , enthusiasms : neither , will i on the other side deny but many persons , even in the catholick church have bin seduced by the devill , and their own pride , to pretend to lights received from god , which were either effects of a distempered fancy , or suggestions of the devill . the question therefore is , whether s. benedicts visions , and revelations came the former , or the latter way . but it is no question touching the doctours iudgement in this case : for certainly he durst not decide them , if he thought or but suspected that they came from god. . i beseech him now that he would examine his own conscience , whether , i will not say , convincing proofs , but rational grounds may not be affoorded , that s. benedicts visions and revelations were truely divine , considering . . the innocence , purity and vninterrupted fervour of devotion conspicuous in s. benedict , from his infancie , to his death . . the admiration in which the age wherein he lived held him , both for his piety , and the stup●nduous favours , conferred on him by almighty god. will the doctor now say , that all that age , and all ages following , have been deluded by an hypocrit , and counterfeit enthusiast , and that himself was the only person clear-sighted enoug to discover the cheat ? not only all christians living in his time , but even the pagan goths had him in veneration : by what light now after above a thousand years , has he seen that the whole world besides himself have been deluded ? hee will easily giue me leave to say assuredly it was not by a supernaturall light , least he himself should be suspected an enthusiast : and for a naturall light to justifie him , he has shewed us none , having concealed the reasons moving him to make a saint soe glorious in the esteem of the christian world , the obiect of his derision . . i verily believe the doctor would have been easily induced to have spared the person of s. benedict ( and so of the other saints ) had not a saying of cardinal bellarmin afflicted his mind , and stirred up his choler , viz. that religious orders were at first instituted by s. benedict , s. romualdus , s. bruno , s. dominick , and s. francis by the inspiration of the holy ghost : this was a sayeing insupportable to a mind by education , and wordly interest prevēted with a strong preiudice , and therefore all books and legends must be searched , and everie crifling passage , and circumstance , perhaps indiscreetly inserted any where by , authors , must be made use of to disgrace the saints , and to prove them enthusiasts : though all the world besides haue them in veneration . . now to enter into dispute concerning their personall qualities with such an adversary , wil bee to offend against charity by giving him occasion , of reviling yet more gods most beloued perfect servants . the most commodious way then to make a true judgement of them will be , to examine their fruits . for by their fruits , saith our saviour , they will be known . . therefore to determine , whether it was by gods inspiration that they instituted their respective orders , lett those who doubt , yea those who scarce think it lawfull to doubt . . examine their severall rules , according to which their disciples oblige themselves to conform their lives and actions . and. . consider whether god has acknowledged them for his servants , by making use of them to the great benefitt of his church , and dilatation of his honour . now if it shall appear that their rules advance perfection in all christian vertues : and that such among them as have squared their actions by their rules have in a signal manner benefitted gods church , and encreased his honour , it is most certain that bellarmin had just grounds , how angrie soever the doctour be , to say , that such orders were instituted by the inspiration of the holy ghost . . i doe heartily wish for the doctours good , that he would without prejudice examine these two points , or at least patiently read what is here written concerning them : now to descant upon all their rules , and to enumerate the services done by the severall orders to gods church would be too tedious . i will therefore as my duty more particularly engages me , confine my self to s. benedicts rule and his disciples actions : and in so doeing the reader will be sufficiently informed in all the rest : since they all agree in the sanctity of their rules and glory of their actions , though in some circumstantiall rites , and observances there be some variety . . as touching therefore the rule of s. benedict , whether it was written with a fanatick spirit or not , the doctours own judgement may be appealed to , if he would vouchsafe to read and examine it . for what is it but a collection skilfully made of all evangelicall precepts , and counsells of perfection ? there the ecclesiasticall office is so wisely ordered , that the whole church judged it fitt to be her pattern . there s. benedict teaches his disciples to begin all their actions with an eye to god , begging his assistance , and referring them entirely to his glory . there a holy family is so ordered , with such a decent assignation of dutyes proper to all offices both of superiors , and subjects , in their severall rancks , that a great and wise king made choice of it for his rule in managing his kingdome . there a contempt and hatred of the world is taught with great energy : religious men are enioined to hide themselves from it , that they may in their sequestred cells enioye a freer conversation with god. and because they cannot exclude themselves out of their solitude , they are instructed to mortifie there all sensuall passions , by prayer and temperance . if by gods providence they enioyed plenty of temporall goods , the poore and strangers only reaped the fruits of it . yea their lawgiuer taught them not only by his rule , but example also , to preferre even in the times of the greatest scarcity the satisfieing the wants of others before their own : hospitality was a vertue soe peculiar to them , and so constantly practised by them , that till the rapine and furie of a tyrant here in england destroyed them , there was no need of any law among us for sustaining the poor , who after soe many modern lawes can scarce be preserved from perishing . and there ( which the doctour may doe well to consider ) the vertues of humilitie and peacefull obedience most contrarie to and inconsistent with fanaticism are of all others most copiously and vehemently inforced , as if in them the spirit of his rule did principally consist . by these two vertues his disciples were securely guarded from all dangers which an externall exercise of other vertues might expose them to : by the former ( humilitie ) they were exempted from pride and self complacencie , in case god should bestow any supernaturall favours on them : and by the latter ( obedience ) which obliged them to discover even their most secret thoughts to their superiours and spirituall directors , they were secured a demonio meridiano , from false illuminations , and illusions of the enemy . and lastly to prevent all innovations in opinions touching religion , and disturbing of the churches peace by spreading abroad new invented fancies ; a most strict silence was inioynd them at home , and none permitted to goe abroad , either for busines , or preaching , but such as the superiour esteemed fitt , with the benediction and prayers of whom , and of their other brethren they were sent forth , and at their return received again . . now can the doctour believe that it was a fault in cardinal bellarmin to say that it was by the inspiration of the holy ghost that such a rule as this was instituted , and families erected for the observing of it ? and yet if he will peruse it he will find that i have omitted many other perfections which shine forth in it . . and whereas from some mistaken expressions of s. gregory he charges s. benedict with the great crime of being a hater of human learning : wee doe not find that he forbids his disciples the study of it in his rule , at such times as the office of the quire and manuall labour for the benefit of the monastery afforded them a vacancy . and it is unquestionable that wee owe to his followers the preservation of almost all the literature which remains in the world : for by their care in conserving and transcribing of books , all our libraries are now soe richly furnished and the doctour enabled to write against them and their master . this they did notwithstanding such a deluge of barbarous nations , which for religions sake hated and sought to destroy all manner of learning : and s. benedicts disciples doeing so , they thought such their care to be no transgression of their rule . . but as for s. benedict himself almighty god did not call him to be a critick , but a teacher of sanctity . and to enable himself thereto , wee find in the last chapter of his rule , that he was no stranger in the books of holy scripture , in the writings of the ancient doctours of the church , in the conferences , and lives of the holy fathers , all which he recommends to his disciples . but as for the subtilties of pagan philosophers , the elegancies of their poets and the like ( considering his vocation ) it would have been in him the vice of curiosity to have spent his time in them : which s. augustin judges to have been the concupiscence of the eyes , reckoned by s. iohn , as one of the three great temptations of the world . . s. benedict therefore was not a hater of human learning ( as the doctour vnjustly and without warrant stiles him ) but for his own vse and office he preferred before it that learning which the wiseman stiles scientiam sanctorum , that learning which does not puff up the mind , but renders it docibilem dei , and makes the possessors of it saints : and i am confident that in the day of iudgment god will never ( as the doctour does ) impute this choice to him as a fault . i would to god the doctour , instead of deriding , would imitate him . in this regard therefore it was that s. gregory stiled s. benedict [ scienter nescium & sapienter indoctum ] skilfully ignorant , and wisely vnlearned : by which character he had no intention certainly to disparage him , but rather to paralell him with the kingly prophet who writing of himself , saith : that he was wiser and had more understanding then his enemies , then his teachers , then the ancients , only by meditating on gods law , and keeping his precepts . . thus far concerning the severall heads of accusations of s. benedict , in a scornefull manner represented by the doctour to make his readers merry at the expences of a glorious saint . but withall his readers are desired to consider , that all these heads are borrowed from s. gregory who wrote the saints life , from the testimonie of certain holy men who had been s. benedicts disciples . so that the very same things which s. gregory wrote to prove the sanctity of s. benedict , the doctour makes use of to shew him , as it were on a stage to have been a fanatick , a false pretender to miracles , visions and inspirations , and an ignorant fool : and all this without any reason or proof given to iustifie such imputations . . but the readers are desired to consider , that whatever opinion they have of s. benedict ( to the zeal and charity of whose disciples notwithstanding they owe their christianity ) yet surely s. gregory was not a person fitt to make sport for the doctour and his readers : s. gregory , perhaps the most exalted and most humble saint , the most illuminated doctour , the most zealous and most charitable prelat , that since the apostles times almighty god ever provided to govern his church . thus he has alwayes been esteemed not only through the western , but eastern churches also . and can the doctour think he can find any reader who has not in his heart renounced christianity , that wil applaud him for trampling with scorn on s. gregory ? for it is from s. gregory indeed that the doctour is informed that s. benedict was a fanatick , if he were such an one : it is s. gregory who commended and confirmed his rule , and if the doctour may be believed , it seems very ignorantly and foolishly stiled it [ discretione praecipuam ] eminent for the discretion of it ; which is a vertue ill suiting with a fanatick . it is s. gregory who has conveyed to posterity an account of the graces and supernaturall favours by god conferred on s. benedict : the truth of which i believe scarce any one hitherto has disbelieved , beside the doctour : certain it is that a generall firm belief of them , both during s. benedicts times and afterward , made a change in christendom scarce ever to be paralleld before or since , whilst incredible multitudes of well meaning christians wakened from a lethargy of sin , either flocked together to take on them the yoke of that rule , or if they wanted such courage , powred forth their treasures to entertain such as consecrated themselves to gods service . and all this the doctour without any proof , pronounces fanaticism , and is desirous that men of this reformed age should believe these divine favours communicated to s. benedict to have been illusions of satan ( which satan himself never durst own ) and that men had done more wisely if they had continued to serve the world , and the flesh , rather then to quitt both in following an hipocriticall fanatick . . surely the doctour was much to blame , and i hope he will sadly reflect on the danger of raising mirth from such an argument as this . or if he doe not , it will be very fitt that when hereafter he mentions those two persons so venerated by all but himself , he would abstain from calling them saints . for in the same breath to call s. benedict a saint and a fanatick , savours something of blasphemy . yet it will be a hard task for him to conquer so inveterated a custome : mens tongues are so enured never to mention them without that title of saint , that the only expedient to correct that fault in himself and others , will be to let his readers know that he intends the same ill thing by the terms of saint and fanatick . thus farr touching s. benedict and his rule : by examining whereof i conceived men might judge whether , notwithstanding the doctours raillery , god did not esteem him his faithfull servant . . the next thing proposed in order to make the like judgement , was to consider whether after s. benedicts death , god did not declare the same thing , by making choice of the disciples of s. benedict to procure an encrease of his honour , and considerable blessings to his church : for if he did , surely the doctour himself , how bold so ever , will scarce dare to disgrace them hereafter by the title of fanaticks . . to clear this , it is to be observed that in s. benedicts age christians generally were falln into such a decadence from piety , charity among them was become so cold and frozen , and all manner of vices raigned so impudently and uncontrollably , that almighty god was even forced to open a free passage among them for innumerable armies of barbarous pagan nations from the north , getes ( or goths ) vandalls , francks , hunns , saxons , danes , lombards , and many others , which like locusts spread themselves , devouring all things through all countreyes , especially of the western church , all which did not expresse their fury so much against their christian enemies forces , as against their religion . now what could be expected from such conquerours , but that the christian faith should be vtterly extinguished . . yet such was the infinite wisedom and goodnes of god that that which was a most terrible plague to impious and dissolute christians then alive , proved in generall to gods church and christian religion a most unvaluable blessing . for in a short time , god of those stones raised up children to abraham : children , not like the former , who sluggishly contented themselves with the name of christians , and in their lives denyed christ : but heroically zealous servants of our lord : witness innumerable churches magnificently built , and richly endowed , to his honour : witness innumerable monasteries and schooles of piety frequently inhabited by emperours , kings , queens , princes , and princesses , who preferred a voluntary life of solitude , poverty , and mortification ( to the end they might more freely attend to heavenly meditations ) before magnificent courts , scepters , and crowns . lastly witness a numerous army of martyrs , not a few of them soueraign kings , and princesses & tender virgins witness likewise aposticall bishops who willingly offered their blood for the salvation of their barbarous murderers . . now who were the persons who , by gods most blessed direction , instilled into the hearts of all these such an heroicall faith and divine loue ? were they not principally the disciples of s. benedict ? let the records and annals of so many nations in europe be consulted : they will justifie the same , and to gods glory will testify how his apostolick preachers to convert their ancestours have been dignified with stupendious miracles . yet all these are derided by the doctour as fanaticks , the children of a famous hypocrit and fanatick : by the doctour , i say , who cannot shew one village converted to christianity by any one of his own sect , nor one miracle pretended to . . now if any thing here delivered touching s benedict and his disciples be true ( and if all be not true , wee have been deceived by the common tradition of whole nations , besides bookes never hitherto contradicted ) nay if any one miracle has been truly reported of him or them , in what a condition has the doctour by his unseasonable mirth concluded himselfe ? the wiseman tells us there is a time to weep , and a time to laugh god has placed them in this order , that weeping should goe before laughing ; but the doctour has perverted the order : he must expect therfore after his and his profane readers mirth , a time of weeping will succeed : god almighty grant that his weeping time may come in this life , and that weeping and wayling and gnashing of teeth come not together . . i doe not know how any adversary of the catholick church could with all his study have shewd himself more impotent in his passions , and less succesfull in reasoning , then the doctour has done in his book . certainly it must be a hatred horribly poysonous against the catholick church militant , which will not spare the church triumphant . i defy the doctour , how bold a champion soever for schism to say publickly or by writing to signify only his opinion , that s. benedict , s. gregory , s. francis and the rest are now reprobate , damned souls in hell : yet such they must needs be ; if they were hipocriticall visionaires , and false pretenders of miracles , on purpose to gather disciples , and withal dyed vnrepentant of these things , as most certainly they did . now if such be not his opinion , nay if he be not assured that they are in an accursed condition , was not his tongue ( or penn ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] sett on fire of hell , whilst it uttered such blasphemies against them , as a perpetuall monument of his rage till the day of iudgment , when he must be answerable for all that shall be corrupted by them . . but suppose that all these accusations could really be verified , must the whole church be esteemed antichristian , in which salvation is scarce possible to be had ( for to prove that is the doctours design ) because five or six hipocrits have lived undiscovered in it ? because a young man notwithstanding all his austerities , and prayers , having been inflamed by the spirit of uncleannes , chose rather to torment his flesh by rowling himself naked among bryars and nettles , then to suffer its impure delectations ? or because another young man having been commanded to restore to his father all the goods committed to his care , meerly to hinder his charitie to the poor , in a fitt of fervour gave up not only his goods , but cloaths also , to his very shirt ? or because another man out of some severe ( or the doctour may call it , capricious ) humour , or to procure contempt to himself , would refuse to give a civill respect to his betters ? . what then would the doctour say of a church , in which visions , and dreams and revelations far more exotick in outward appearance , are proposed to mens belief ? in which one who calls himself a prophet professeth that another sort of mortification was enioynd him then that which s. benedict practised , namely to mixe his bread with mans dung , and so to eat it ? in which a prophet by gods command for three years together walked naked and with his feet bare before all the people ? in which another commands his disciple not to salute , or shew any respect to any person whosoever should come in his way ? yet not any of these persons or actions the doctour dares deride , or refuse to yield his assent and approbation of them , though he has encouraged his profane readers by his example to deride them . §. . of the life and prayer of contemplation , derided by the doctour . . the doctour , not being contented with recreating himself and others by vnsainting , and as he hopes , plucking downe from heaven many glorious saints , so esteemed by gods church ( whose company notwithstanding , where ever they are , i wish both he and my self may forever enjoy ) proceeds to represent as ridiculously the way of devotion in greatest request among those of the severall orders instituted by them . this is the prayer of contemplation taught by rusbrochius , suso , harphius , blosius ( and f. baker reduced into a method by m. cressy . ) he might , if he had pleased , have cited far more ancient authours had he consulted cassian , the disciple of s. chrisostom , in his conferences of hermits of his time , and a primitive writer , denis the ar●opagite , who , whatever his true name was , was questionles an authour of the second , or at least the third age of the church , and who describes the most sublime and most purely divine prayer exercised by hierotheus , a disciple of the apostles . it had been a mastery worthy of such a champion as the doctour to have trampled on such contemplatives as these , or on s. paul the hermit , and s. anthony , or rather on s. mary magdalen , s. mary the egyptian , and other inhabitants of desarts , who it seems , wanted such a directour for contemplation as the doctour is . . if he doe acknowledge a reall difference between an active and a contemplative life , ( in the opinion of the ancient fathers exemplified by the employments of the two holy sisters , s. martha , and s. mary magdalen ) he might doe well to teach this age what is meant by a contemplative life , and what way and manner of devotion peculiarly suits to it : and whether among all the sects which he call by the common name of protestants , he can tell us any news of any who have pretended to a contemplative life , or given any rules for such as would performe the exercises of it : such are , and have always been esteemed such , solitude , abstraction from worldly cares , rigorous abstinences , cilices , indispensable obedience to superiours , continuall prayer practised according to the degrees of it , still more and more pure and spirituall , a performance of all dutyes and even ordinarie actions in vertue of prayer and vnion in spirit with god &c. i doe not now require of him an account of raptures , extasies , passive vnions with god , in which a pure soule only receives divine influences : for these things he derides as phantasticall enthusiasms , and yet all ages have mentioned them , and afforded innumerable examples of them , and they are recorded by persons eminent for piety and learning . . but the doctour has one argument unanswerable , which iustifies him to call that language unintelligible canting , by which certain mystick divines endeavour , as well as they can , to express the most pure operations of the soule herself , and likewise of god upon the soule in contemplative prayer : and this argument is drawn from a treasvre of most deep humility . his argument is this ; i , even i the most learned , and all comprehending doctour stillingfleet doe not understand the language of such mysticks , therefore it is unintelligible canting . . yet notwithstanding this more then herculean argument , i believe i can oppose against him an antagonist who will have the boldnes to maintain that he will answer this argument , and demonstrate it not to be concluding . and this is a certain holy man that professes of himself that in a wonderfull extasy he found himself present in paradise , and there saw and heard ( as he thought ) god only knows what . now what soever it was that he saw and heard , he was , no doubt , willing to have communicated it to his brethren , but he had not the power to doe it . no human language could afford words to express matters so elevated and divine . for if it could , i am assured he , who was the greatest master of language that perhaps ever was , had not failed to do it . nay more , which still encreases the wonder , though he professes that he really saw and heard these inexplicable glorious things , yet he could not determin whether all the while his corporall sences , externall or internall , were employed in this divine visitation . . this was surely , according to the doctours grounds , the greatest fanatick that ever was , yea the father of all fanaticks . yet the doctour dares not call him so , after he is told that this was s. paul : and that he it was who describes the revelations communicated to him by gods divine spirit : describes them , i say , by not describing them , but by professing that no human language could describe them , nor humane fancy comprehend them . this certainly the doctour will not deny to have been a passive vnion ( so derided by him ) of s. pauls soule with god , for he contributed nothing actively either to the procuring or enioying of it . . if therefore mystick writers , many of them persons both of great sanctity and learning , in endeavouring to describe what passed in their soules during vnions far inferiour to those of s. paul , are forced to make expressions , out of the common road , and not agreeing with school philosophy ; if observing that in pure contemplative prayer their own operations , and the infusions of gods spirit are so in time in the soule , that it seems to them that there is as it were a region of it beyond the discovery of philosophy , which they think fit to call the apex mentis , and fundus animae , the doctour might without any further guilt have abstained from imputing fanaticism to ludo vicus blosius , or m. cressy , for transcribing such expressions . but this is a sycophancy inexcusable in the doctour , who mentions such mystical phrases on purpose to deride them as unintelligible non-sence , and at the same time omitts the setting down expressions which interpret them . . but there is one speciall phrase which above the rest cited by m. cressy , exposes him to the doctours utmost contempt . this is where it is sayd that , in the supreme degree of contemplative prayer the soule is so united to god as if nothing were existent but god and the soule : yea so far is the soule from reflecting on her own existence , that it seems to her god and she are not distinct , but one only thing . this is called by some mysticks an vnion of nothing with nothing in which the soule comes to a feeling of her not being , and by consequence of the not being of creatures : the which is indeed a reall truth . true , says the doctour , this is indeed either a reall truth or else intollerable non-sense . . now i suppose it is not for the doctours interest to seem to have received any satisfaction from persons iniured by him : therefore addressing myself to any indifferent reader , i doe affirm , that the most supreme affirmative notion that we can have of god is that which is implyed in his most adorable incommunicable name of iehova , or as himself interprets it [ sum qui sum ] i am what i am , which imports an infinite vniversall plenitude of being . therefore , as the schoole doctours say , if we hold to the notion of being , between the being of god and the limited , participated being of creatures , there is an infinite distance , and by consequence creatures compared with god have more of not-being , then they have of being ; in which regard their denomination , so considered , ought rather to be taken from not-being , then from being . thus the sthooles : which if they speak nonsense ( for my part i think they doe not ) yet surely the nonsense is not intolerable . . but moreover mystick divines though they acknowledge the infinitenes , totality , and vniversality of gods being ; yet they rather chuse [ to which choice the nature of contemplative prayer even forces them ] to reiect all distinct , affirmative notions of god and his perfections , as coming infinitely short of his divine nature , and which indeed are falsely applied to him , if considered as they are comprehended by us : and they frame to themselves a negative notion of him , by separating from him all attributes whatsoever comprehended by us , because as such they are indeed imperfections . and to instill into our minds such a notion of god , of all others least imperfect , he is pleased to describe himself in scriptures to be inaccessible light , that is , light though infinitely glorious , yet to us invisible , and invisible because of the excess of its visibility . hence he is sayd to dwell in darknes , and to make darknes his secret place , and his pavilion round about him to be dark waters and thick clouds of the skyes . in this darknes it is that god is contemplated in pure spirituall prayer , in which , all images and positive notions of the divinity being reiected , an incomprehensible nothing remains , to which the soule is united , and in whose presence all created beings are annihilated . in this darkness therefore contemplative soules have , as it were , an experimentall perception of what schoolmen deduce from reasoning . . it seems now to mee that a weaker capacity then the doctours may perceive in this no intolerable nonsense . yea i must add , that here the doctour gives a manifest proof of his dishonesty , in wilfully leaving out that which evidētly explains m. cressy's meaning : which if it had not been concealed from the readers would have rendred his assertion touching the not-being of creatures to be most rationall . for thus m. cressy ( in sancta sophia treat . . p. . ) treating of the state of perfection , writes : in this state the soule comes to a feeling indeed of her not being , and by consequence of the not being of creatures : the which indeed is reall truth : not as if the soule or other creatures either did cease according to their naturall being ; or as if a natural being were indeed no reall being ( as f. benedict canfield doth seem to determin ) but because all sinfull adhesion by affection to creatures being annihilated , then they remain ( as to the soule ) only in that true being which they have in god , by dependance on him , and relation to him , so that he ( alone ) is all in all . whereas while we sinfully adhere unto them , by staying in them with love , we carry our selves towards them as if we thought them to have a being or subsistance of and in themselves , and not of god only , and that they might be loved for themselves , without reference to god : which is the fundamentall errour and root of all sin. . thus the doctour deales with his catholick adversaries . he can at pleasure make them write non-sense by concealing their sense . and thus also he treats m. cressy again in repeating severall passages of sancta sophia touching contemplative prayer : for selecting from severall places certain abstruse words and phrases made use of by mysticks to express , as well as they can , their conceptions , he presents them all together in a heap before his readers eyes , and then miscalls them vnintelligible canting , whilst in the mean time he leaves out the interpretation which m. cressy gives of those words and phrases , to make them intelligible . truly it is not without some scruple now that i take notice of any thing that such an adversary as the doctour shewes himself , doth or can write on an argument so unfitt for controversy as contemplative prayer is , which cannot but he disgustfull to such a sensuall palat as he shews his to be , being willing to corrupt the palats also of his readers . it may be e're long they will see a treatise on this argument , demonstrating the substance of what so ever the doctour finds fault withall in m. cressy's sancta sophia , to be suitable to what the fathers of gods church have both from tradition , and from their own experience also , delivered on that most divine subject . and the doctour shall have free leave ( without any future reply ) once more to call what those holy fathers write unintelligible canting , and intolerable non-sence , though their expressions be parallelled and confirmed by numerous texts of holy scripture . in the mean time , for the readers sake , i will here add some reflexions upon what the doctour has written . . he proceeds further , saying that the utmost effect of contemplative prayer if intelligible and practicable , is gross enthusiasm . and why ? because , forsooth m. cressy says that by a diligent practise of such internall spirituall prayer the soule receives from god a heavenly light and inspiration for her direction in all her actions , according to the psalmists words . accedite ad deum & illuminamini , and according to the prayer in his own churches liturgy , borrowed from the roman : [ fifth sunday after easter ] lord from whom all good things doe come , grant us thy humble servants that by thy holy inspiration , we may think those things that be good , and by thy mercyfull guiding we may perform the same . the word inspiration therefore needs not trouble the doctour : neither by it is any other thing meant , but divine grace , which , sayes he , none denyes . . yet he must know that this divine grace obtaind by spirituall prayer constantly exercised , though it be in its nature and kind the same which every good christian enioyes , yet the lights and motions of it extend much farther , even to the directing a person not only in necessary dutyes , but to the sanctifiing of all his actions , otherwise in their own nature indifferent , and improving them for the perfectionating the soule in divine love , in soe much as those actions which are performed by ordinary good christians meerly out of an impulse of nature , or for some sensuall satisfaction , are by these done in obedience to the divine will , discovered to them . . and whereas to distinguish these inspirations from those pretended to by fanaticks , it was sayd , that in contemplative persons these direct rather to not doing , then doing , when both these seem otherwise equally indifferent , i wonder why the doctour should be displeased with this . he may remember that in the time of the late vsurper , when himself was a great leading preacher , all the actions almost of his brethren were pretended to come from a divine light and inspiration all warranted by the bible , which light ( more , it seems , to the doctours mind ) directed them to nothing but doing , viz : to reform religion , to rebell against their king , to pluck down hierarchy , to multiply sects , to usurp the office of preaching without any vocation , to imprison , pillage , kill their fellow subiects and the like : but no such effects proceed from the lights and inspirations of internall livers among catholicks : they ( having the same vocation that s. mary magdalen had ) leave the many businesses to martha , vnles god by their lawfull superiours , calls them to externall emploiments , which when he does , he enables them to perform them with greater perfection , as we see by the conversion of many nations performed by such as had spent a great part of their lives in solitude and contemplation . . it is most certain that if luther , calvin , tindall and such reformers had by prayer disposed themselves for such lights as these , and also followed the direction of them , they would never have procured warre and bloodshed , destruction of kingdoms , rebellions of subjects , tearing asunder gods church and sacrilegiously invading its revenues neither would they to satisfie their lusts have incesttuously polluted themselves with consecrated virgins : in a word they would have done all things contrary to what they have done . and if the doctour himself had followed the guidance of such a light , he would never have published such a book , in which pretending to demonstrate that salvation can scarce possibly be attayned in the catholick church , whatsoever is alledged by him which truly concerns the church it self , may be contained in twenty or thirty pages , whereas the book it self consists of five or six hundred , all the rest being scurrilous buffonries , petulant revilings of gods saints , imputing to the church the doctrins and practises of madmen or sectaries condemned by the church herself , and any thing that he could take out of dunghills which might be serviceable for his unchristian purpose to eradicate out of his readers hearts charity and all sense of humanity : and all this without any provocation , as if , enraged to see that the same mercifull indulgence is not denyed to catholicks alone , which is allowed to himself , and all sects among us which vnanimously conspired to his majesties destruction , and of which not any one to this day has renounced the principles which led them thereto : as if , i say , in that rage his design was to expose innocent , and peaceable subiects to all manner of contempts , affronts , hatred , and mischievous attempts of their fellow subiects , to the disturbance of the kingdoms peace and the renewing of our publick calamities and tragedies , to which he knows that thirty years since , such books and sermons were made use of as a prologue . . he must give me leave to add hereto , that in the principles at the end of his book , giving an account of the faith of protestants , he has layd a foundation to support and iustify not only all manner of sects , but the worst effects of them , i mean , the late rebellion , and any other that may follow hereafter : i will not say this was his intention , but the consequence may easily be demonstrated . . for in the said principles this being layd down by him as a ground of protestancy , that every sober enquirer into scriptures may be infaillibly certain of all necessary truths contained in them without any obligation to consult or however to obey , ecclesiasticall superiours and teachers : does it not necessarily follow , that all sectaries are equally iustifiable , since it is impossible , without looking into their thoughts , to evince against them that they have not enquired soberly ? what monstrous opinions now may not hereby be justified ? and what possibility of confuting them ? now if among such opinions this be one , that it is the necessary duty of a christian subiect to contribute all that is in his power , even goods and life it self , to sett up the true religion , that is , his own sect , and this against all power whatsoever civill or ecclesiasticall , which shall seek to oppress it , what will the doctour , standing to his own principles , say hereto , if he had a mind to oppose it ? now that such an opinion may possibly spring up , and the assertours of it may pretend that it is grounded on evident scripture , the doctour himself will not deny , since i am sure he remembers , and has reason to do so , that this was the architectonicall principle , common to all sects in the like rebellion : this was thundred out in pulpits , of this all pamphlets were full : the bible and nothing but the bible was all their warrant , the bible was the ensign carried up aloft before their troops , as if the king , bishops , and all their party had been professed enemies to the bible , or had grounded their religion upon the alcoran , whereas indeed all these sects had turned christs doctrine into that bloody law of mahomet . yet notwithstanding all this the doctour zealously and furiously against the papists still contends for putting the bible into all mens hands , and assures them that they are the only legall iudges of the sense of it in necessaries , upon condition they will only say that they are sober enquirers into it . . this seems to me to be an evident consequence of the doctours principle ; a principle never acknowledged in gods church for above fourteen hundren years by any one orthodox christian , or by any unless by some whom the doctour himself will call hereticks . if the doctour think i doe not speak truth , lett him search , and lett him employ his freinds to search into libraries : let them consult all the ancient fathers of the church , and all councills : and when they have done , and seen themselves deserted by all antiquity , and vertually condemnd and anathematized by all councills ( which pretend to have right to teach , and to oblige christians to yeeld their assent ) will it not follow that his religion hath a most pittifully unstable and sandy foundation ? but to return from this digression to an argument more gratefull to the doctour , the fanaticism by him imputed to the catholick church , with regard to the prayer of contemplation . . whereas m. cressy in his sancta sophia among severall things by which liberty of spirit may be hindered , reckons this for one : the doing actions meerly for edification : the doctour in scorn adjoyns hereto these words , a most excellent and apostolicall doctrine ! these words shew that the doctour likes not that saying : but i cannot imagin what reason he had for it . our saviour indeed requires that our light should shine before men , that they seeing our good works might ( being edified ) glorifie our heavenly father . but this concerns only such good works as our duty obliges vs to doe in publick . but as for other duties , such as is prayer and fasting , he bids us retire into our closets to practise them there , without an eye to the edifiing others , and condemns the pharisees for doing them that they may be seen of men . in like manner those who are called to an internall life and solitude , for them to quitt their proper exercises to goe abroad on purpose to do actions good in themselves , for no other end , but meerly to give a good example for the edification of others was there iustly esteemed a prejudice to the liberty of spirit necessary for their state . . but moreover i would ask the doctour , whether being at church in a publick duty , and not having any devotion himself at present , he would esteem it a commendable action to pretend to much fervour , by lifting vp his eyes or beating his breast , and this meerly and only to the end that others seeing him might be edifyed , himself being nothing the better for such grimaces ? or would he give an alms before people meerly for their edification , and not out of a motive of charity inherent in himself ? truly if he should doe all this in such a manner , i should be none of his admirers . and much lesse do i , or i think , any good christian admire him for his book so full af all manner of vnchristian affections , which surely he cannot pretend to be written meerly for edification , and for which i hope his judgement is not soe perverted as to expect a reward from god , who litle esteems witt without charity , or rather witt shewed for the destruction of charity , and truth also . . after this the doctour out of the same book mentioning the supernaturall favours which innumerable catholick writers both ancient and modern , do testify to have been communicated by almighty god to his servants after a constant exercise of internall prayer , and mortification , the doctour , i say , would have his reader think that his deriding of these is a sufficient confutation . and i may more justly think that a sober reader will judge that the only mentioning of a proceeding so contrary to all rules of reasoning is a sufficient reply . . what hath been hitherto sayd is even too much touching the defence of a book of prayer published by m. cressy , in which the church of england is so litle concerned , and which was compiled for the use of good devout humble soules , and not at all for persons of the doctours temper . those eminently learned and pious fathers , and particularly r. f. leander a s. martino who with great care perused the severall spirituall treatises written by r. f. baker , and gave their approbations of them , were persons in all regards for their profound universall learning far exalted above the censures of malignant pedants : and the devout soules to whose practise they recomended those pious instructions , have reaped such fruits from them , such effectuall helps far their advancement in the divine love and spirituall perfection , that the bouffoneries of such a doctour will only produce this effect upon them , to give god daily thanks that they have escaped from a church in which blasphemous invectives against gods saints and the science of saints are not only permitted , but applauded and rewarded . . none can justly wonder that a soule so manifestly voyd of divine love should want both light and tast in such things . daamantem & sentit quod dicimus , saith s. augustin . but does the doctour hope that because he understands not and therefore proudly contemns misticall theology and the exercises of an internall life , the catholick church and governours of it will abate their esteem of that blessing , which manifestly proves that gods holy spirit does not communicate his most sublime and precious gifts to sects divided from the church , of which scarce any pretend to them , and those that doe so , do evidently shew by their contempt of all authority , renunciation of all christian charity , furious and restles attempts of new reformations and seditious combinations to the ruine of all peace , that it is a black spirit , which was a murderer from the beginning , by which they are agitated ? whereas those humble , devout , and retired soules among catholicks , stiled by the doctour , fanaticks , are so far from any intention of disturbing peace , and so entirely submitted to lawfull authority ( the spirit of prophets being so indispensably subiect to the prophets ) that they are in a continuall readines to renounce all reuelations , apparitions , impulses and whatsoever extraordinary visitations , if they seem any wayes to occasion in them doubts of the churches faith , or to prejudice obedience to her ordonnances . . the doctour i am sure , considering his supposed universall reading , cannot be ignorant , that such fanaticks as these , though invisible to the busy world , were yet esteemd chariots of israël and the horsemen thereof . that pious , wise , and potent christian emperours have consulted them in their greatest affairs , and have acknowledged themselves obliged to them for miraculous victories over tyrants , resolving upon warre by their encouragement , beginning them with their benediction , and conquering by the assistance of their prayers : by their prayers , and not their disputations , the church has triumphed over heresies , and the world been freed from plagues and mortalities . at their names devills have trembled , and by their command , though absent , those proud spirits have with a mixture of feare and rage quitted their habitation in the bodies of unhappy men . yet these the doctour dares deride , and because they are patient , will not perhaps repent , till it be too lare , but will justify still his impious boldnes and petulancy . . it is truly a sad thing to consider with what disposition of mind persons qualifyed , as ( it seems ) the doctour is , do apply themselves to the reading of books of piety written by catholicks . it is as daggers piercing their hearts when they find no advantage to expresse their malignity : if in a great volume full of most heavenly instructions for the exercise of all vertues and dutyes to god and man , they can find but a line or two into which they think they can make their venenious teeth to enter , by that line or two they become edified , that is comfortable nourrishment to their minds , the whole book besides being nauseous to them ; would not damned soules in hell , if spirituall books were sent them , thus read and thus descant upon them ? . now whether the doctour ( and some other of his freinds ) has not shewed himself such a reader of catholick books truly innocent , devout , and in which the breathing of gods spirit may , as it were , be perceived , let any indifferent reader of his book be judge . how many of such books , from s. gregory to s. ignatius his time , does the doctour shew that he has read , how many lives of saints , how many treatises of devotion , and among them he will give me leave to name sancta sophia , and poor mother iuliana ? and what account does he give to his readers of the spirituall benefit reaped by him from his laborious reading ? he it seems is not able out of them all to suggest any point of instruction in christian doctrin , not one good affection to god , not the least encouragement to a vertuous holy life . all these things are vanished out of his memory , and evaporated out of his brain , having never affected his heart . what then does he yeild for his readers edification ? he teaches him in reading such books to pronounce mimically and scornfully what he finds there concerning miracles , how wel soever attested , and concerning divine favours communicated by god to his speciall servants : and this being done , to call them fanaticks , and so doeing to esteem such relations sufficiently confuted , and such spirituall books sufficiently disparaged . he teaches him to snatch out of a great book three or four passages lamely and imperfectly cited , to give what construction to them he pleases , and whether he does not understand , or over-understand them , to pronounce them still fanaticall , and there is an end of those books : by the doctours good will no protestant hereafter must receiue the least good from them , vnless pride , malice , and contempt of godlines be good things . . now having named in the last place poor mother iuliana , a devout anchoret about three hundred years since living in norwich , i must needs signify my wonder , what could move his spleen and choler against her litle book . it is true , her language to the ears of this age , seems exotick : but it is such as was spoken in her time : therefore she may be excused : her expressions touching gods favours to her are homely , but that surely is no sin . for affections to god are set down with great simplicity indeed , but they are withall cordiall and fervent , and apt to imprint themselves , in the heart of an unpreiudiced reader . the sense and tast she shews to have had of gods speciall love to his servants , of the omnipotent efficacy of his grace , and his impregnable defence and watchfullnes over his elect , to secure them finally from all dangers of tentations , is indeed admirable . yet the doctour has no eyes to see any of these things . but through what glasses he looked when he spied out blasphemy in her writing , i am not able to say : blasphemy , which never hitherto could be observed by so many learned and religious persons as have perused them . but it is no wonder that spiders should suck and digest into poyson the most wholesom nourishment . . what hath been hitherto said of contemplative prayer is but even too much to such an adversary , it being a subiect too sacred and divine to be treated of in a polemicall discourse against an opponent of the doctours temper : who , i think , is the first protestant writer that ever made that an argument of controversy against the catholick church . the only excuse that i can devise for so unreasonable a quarrel begun by him , is his indulgence to a froward passion conceived by him , without any provocation , against m. cressy , who severall years since published a book on that subiect , called sancta sophia : in which book notwithstanding he challenges nothing to himself , but the labour of making collections and the method of it . in that regard therefore it may be permitted him to commend the directions for the exercise of internall spirituall prayer , and the practise of all christian vertues in perfection contained in it . and this , in despight of the doctours unmerited malice , he does with such confidence , that he dares promise to himself that if any sober ; well affected reader , though a protestant , and though at present one of the doctours admirers , shall seriously and with an humble heart peruse it , he will either apply himself to the practise of the excellent instructions contained in it , or bewayle his want of spirituall courage in not daring effectually to aspire to so glorious an attempt . . wee must not here forget two notable saints , which as the doctour confidently pretends have given him sufficient advantage so to denigrate their persons , as by them to cast an aspersion on the church . these are a holy widow and a virgin , s. brigit , and s. catharine of siena . both these had supernaturall revelations : therefore says the doctour , they were fanaticks . but moreover , their revelations touching the conception of our blessed lady do contradict one the other , and the revelations of both are allowed , and of one confirmed by the church in a councill : and by consequence the doctour with assurance pronounces the church to be a favourer not only of fanaticism , but errour also . to this purpose the doctour . . hereto i answer , . that all catholicks acknowledge both these to have been saints . . and that each of them hath been favoured with supernaturall revelations the publick office of the church testifyes . thus much is confessed : but it is utterly denyed that the church does so approve them , as to forbid any one to make iust exceptions against them : as wee see many writers on both sides have done : she judges they may in generall be usefull to stirr up devotion in readers minds , but she does not confirme them as infallible . for how could it be known to the pope or councill that any speciall revelation made , or pretended to be made to another , was from god , unles the person also testify them by miracles ? and it is observable that when examination is made of miracles in order to the canonization of any saint , the testimony of women will not be received . naturally imagination is stronger in them then judgement , and whatsoever is esteemed by them to be pious , is easily concluded by them to be true . this i say upon supposition that such revelations , were not pretended by persons interessed on both sides of the controversy about the immaculate conception . and particularly touching s. catharine of siena , suares affirms that not any who have written her life have made mention of this revelation . it will suffise therefore to set down here what two illustrious catholick writers have declared touching this point . the former is s. antoninus mentioned by the doctour . if you say , saith he , that some saints , have had a revelation of these things , as s. brigit : it is to be observed that other saints who have wrought miracles , as s. catharin of siena , have had a revelation of the contrary . and since true prophets doe sometimes think that a thing proceeds from divine revelation which they utter of themselves , there is not inconvenience to say , that such revelations were not from god , but human dreames . an example hereof may be found in the prophet nathan speaking to david proposing to him his dessign to build a temple to god. for david though he answered him by a spirit of prophecy , the contrary hereof after wards appeared . the other is cardinal baronius , who treating of certain revelations of s. brigit and s. mathildis , hath these words : i doe indeed honour and venerate ( as is due ) those two saints : but touching the revelations had by them , or rather ascribed to them , i receive only those which the church receives , which we know cannot approve things so repugnant . . i am sorry i cannot impute it to so harmles a principle as ignorance , that the doctour speaking of two writers who both of them rejected these pretended revelations of both these saints as illusions and fancies , adds , what becoms then of the popes and councills infallibility , who have approved both ? by which words an unwary reader will not doubt but that an oecumenical councill had made a canon with an anathema against all those who should not acknowledge all the revelations of s. brigit to have been divine , and the belief of them necessary to salvation . whenas all that was done by the councill was , upon occasion of invectives made against those revelations by many catholicks , to require ioannes a turrecremata to peruse and give his judgment of them , which being favourable , the councill , saith he , approved them , that is , freely permitted them to be read , as contayning nothing contrary to faith and good manners . notwithstanding which kind of approbation , we see liberty taken , and with leave enough from the church , by many writers to decry both the one and the other , and there is scarce a catholick alive that thinks he has an obligation to believe either of them . §. . visions &c. no grounds of believing doctrines among catholicks . . the doctour thinks it advantageous to his cause against the catholick church , that it should be believed that visions , revelations , &c. are made by catholicks grounds of believing severall points of doctrin , as purgatory , transsubstanciation and auricular confession . indeed if he could prove that any such points of doctrine have been , or the point of the conception of our b. lady should hereafter be declared articles of faith upon no surer grounds than modern miracles or revelations , it would have been the maister-piece of all that he has , or ever shall write . but this he durst not say explicitely , though perhaps he is willing his readers should understand that to have been his meaning : for then almost all the councils of gods church would have confuted him , since they professe that the only ground of their faith is divine revelation made to the church by christ and his apostles , and conveyed to posterity in scripture and tradition . . now this the doctour being i am sure not able to contradict , is it to be esteemed a preiudice to catholick faith that almighty god to confound hereticks and establish the belief of catholicks , should in severall succeeding ages afford particular revelations , or enable his servants to work miracles : and that he has done so , we have such a cloud of witnesses , that credit must be denyed to history in generall , if none of such witnesses must be admitted . as for the doctour , the only expedient made use of by him to invalidate their testimony , is to produce it in a stile of raillery . . as for the instituting festivalls , for example of the conception of our blessed lady &c. it cannot be denyed but it is a lawfull church-institution : and might at any time on any occasion be appointed : and if on some revelation , supposed divine , an occasion was given to the pope to ordain it , this can be no prejudice to it , being a glorifying of god for the blessed virgin , the mother of our lord , her being either preserved , ( as some catholicks say ) or at least cleansed ( as others ) from the common pollution of originall sin at her conception , without any determining which of these two hapned to her , and so the festivall is equally observed by catholicks of either opinion . the like may be said of the feast of corpus christi , of s. michael the archangëll &c. by none of which the least alteration was made in the common faith. . but truly we have great obligation to the doctour , though i believe he does not expect wee should thank him , for imputing to the church the frantick preachings and practises of mad-men , and at the same time telling us , that they were excommunicated and other wayes punished by popes , princes and bishops . indeed it is a terrible argument to prove it dangerous to live in a church , because there heresies , false revelations and impure actions are condemned by it . if holy institutours of religious orders could with their rules give also power and will to their subjects not to transgress them , the world would be even too happy . but this exceeding a created power to doe , it is even necessary that scandalls should follow , such as were given by a sect of mendicants , the authours of the horrible evangelium aeternum , the followers of petrus ioannis de oliva , the beguini , fraticelli , beguardi , the illuminati , or alumbrados of spain , and such other monsters , raised up by the devill , in a cursed imitation of the graces and gifts communicated by god to his devout and faithfull servants . but the doctour who can ( no doubt ) commend luther for opposing and dividing god● church , though luther himself tells him that he did it by the devills instigation , scornfully derides and reviles any one who shall pretend to defend the church by gods inspiration or miracles . but 〈◊〉 calvin had not failed in his designed miracles , by raising a man from the dead the quite contrary way , the doctour perhaps would have been reconciled to miracles and inspirations . thus we see that nothing that god has done , or perhaps can do , for the benefit of his church will please the doctour . if catholicks live abstracted lives in the exercise of pure spirituall prayer , or if god confers on any of them supernaturall gifts , all this must passe for meer enthusiasme , though the persons with perfect humility submit all to lawfull authority , and though the doctour alledges nothing to disprove any of these things . . but least we may in the end hope that he will permitt and encourage us to keep to the externall devotions and publick liturgy . by no meanes : there must nothing be thought or done by the children of the catholick church , but must be found fault with : the liturgy , saith he , is a tedious and ceremonious way of externall devotion as dull and as cold as the earth it self . hereto ( quia de gustibus non est disputandum ) all that i conceive needfull to say , is that the doctour seems to me not yet cordially reconciled to the ceremonies and common prayer book of his own lately adopted church , which he knows to have been borrowed from the catholick liturgy , and for that reason hated by his freinds the presbyterians and independents , and by them esteemed a tedious and ceremonious way of externall dev●tion , as dull and as cold as the earth it self . §. . resisting authority falsely imputed to catholick religion . . we have hitherto seen the doctors charge of fanaticism on the catholick church , and his proofs also , such as they are : but he concludes this his accusation with an epiphonema truly of great importance , if rightly applied , which is the fanaticism of catholicks , in resisting authority under a pretence of religion . . to make this good , he very ingenuously absolves the catholick church her self , and layes this fault only on the principles and practises of the iesuiticall party , a party , saith he most countenanced and encouraged by the court of rome . and for proof of this he produces severall books written and actions done by them in the last age . . hereto our answer must be : that scandalls in gods church are unavoydable , as our saviour tells vs. but where will he find any catholick who will be answerable for all the actions of the court of rome , or all the writings of a single party ? the popes are absolute princes as well as prelats , and if some of them have been tainted with ambiti●n and a desire to invade the rights of other princes ( for what courts have ever been entirely free ? ) such can never want ministers zealous , diligent and inventive to justify all their pretentions and designs , whatever they are . vice will never want instruments and supporters , till the devill himself be converted and become a good christian , and it will be long before this happen . . but it is well known that in this point , princes , and states are generally become more clear sighted and more wise then formerly they have been , and by consequence the court of rome also . . but to be more particular . if the doctour will think good to consult the iesuits , i believe they will tell him , that if they find speciall favour in the court of rome , it is not with regard to any such books or actions imputed by him to their fore fathers and which they are far from defending : that they have other merits and endowments to recommend them to the popes favour . and particularly that this is not reckoned among their merits , their equally free access and more then ordinary interest of favour in the court of france ( where , the doctour knows , such doctrins are far from being admitted ) will more then sufficiently testify . they will further tell him that for as much as concerns the unsafe antimonarchicall doctrins contained in the foresaid books cited by him , it is almost a whole age since that they have been by their generall forbidden under paine of excommunication and other most greivous censures to iustify them , either in writing , preaching or disputing : and more over ( which is very considerable ) this prohibition was not only made before the condemnation of these books in france , but also was known to the pope and permitted by him . i am moreover confident that he cannot with any tolerable proofs make good his accusation of their being wanting in their fidelity to his majesty , or his glorious father , during the late rebellious warr , which was raised and prosecuted by the doctours best quondam freinds : and more over i may assure the doctour , that if an oath were framed free from ambiguity , and without odious phrases inserted in it ( wholly unnecessary to the substance of it ) they would not make any scruple of ioyning with all their catholick brethren in taking it . but then what thinks the doctour of these two propositions to be sett in the scale against his ? . that it is absolutely unlawfull to subiects by arms to propagate or defend religion against their lawfull prince . . that ( i say not by the pope ; to this he and his brethren are as forward as any , but ) by no assembly civill or ecclesiasticall , subiects can be authorized by arms to oppose their prince , upon any pretence what soever . are he and his quondam party ready to declare these ? will he or they damne the execrable covenant ? surely the kings safety and the publick peace are far more concernd in these then in the former . this therefore would be a task in which his learning and eloquence would be worthily employed : and more over in case himself either by preaching or writing has declared the contrary to either of these , or engaged his soule in the covenant , so great , so horrible a scandall as that , certainly ought not only to be repented of , but a publick revocation of it to be made . and moreover my lords the bishops his superiours deale but too mercifully in not requiring also a recantation from him of what he has written destructive to the ecclesiasticall government of that church , in whose revenues they have now given him so great a share . but i despair of being able to extort from the doctour a free expression of his mind touching these two points , which involue a secret never to be discovered . at least then he may with civilitie be entreated to satisfy the world touching the sense of the two oaths of supremacy and allegiance which he has taken already , as appears by the preferments he enioys : unles perhaps for the tendernes of his conscience he has been dispensed with taking them . i doubt not but that in the oath of alleagiance he cheer-fully renounced all authority in the pope or any forrain potentate to absolue subiects from their allegiance : but will he doe the same with regard to any domestick power , assembly , or state at home ? this were worth the knowing . . and next touching the oath of supremacy , the doctour during the late execrable vsurpers time publishing in his irenicum the iudgement touching church government of the prime patriarch of the english reformation , stiled by him that most worthy prelat and glorious martyr archbishop cranmer ( a martyr indeed , if an impenitent traytor may be called a martyr : ) and his judgment , declared in an answer to a petition of the clergy in the convocation , was in brief , that princes and governours may make ( bishops and ) priests as well as bishops may : and that a bishop or a priest made by them needeth no consecration by the scripture . moreover the doctour signifies that he had in his possession an authentick copy of the same cranmers answer in resolution of certain doubts propounded by the same clergy touching doctrinall points , as about the masses institution , nature , receiving &c. but this secret the doctour envyed his readers : notwithstanding we may collect the sense of cranmers answer from the subscription to both the resolutions , the form whereof is this , t. cantuariens . this is mine opinion and sentence at this present , which i do not temerariously define , but do remit the judgment thereof wholly to your majesty . so that it seems a finall judgment both touching government and doctrin is by the prime bishop referred to a child of about nine years old : a great glory surely to the english clergy , for the knowledge of which they are beholding to the doctour , as the doctour was to cranmer for confirming the substance of his book touching church government , very advantageous to my lords the bishops . . now this being premised , and notice being taken that this book , attributing all this power to the supreme civill governour , was printed in cromwells time : he cannot surely refuse to declare whether he intended in taking lately the oath of supremacy to acknowledg as much in the king , whose title by law is , supreme head and governour of the church of england : and whether by the church of england is to be understood only the prelaticall church , so as that all the doctours other protestant churches are to be supposed exempt from his iurisdiction . for if they be not , it is expected that the doctour should declare that the king as head of the church may ordain bishops and priests for his own church : and presbyters for the presbyterians , ministers for the independents , holders-forth for anabaptists ; declarers for quakers and tub-preachers for that sort of fanaticks . but this is not all : for the doctour , if holding to his book , seems obliged to assert a power in the king to appoint also articles of belief , a hundred ways varying and contradicting one another , to fitt the fancies of each respective congregation . but how would the doctour advise him about fifth monarchists ? thus much at present upon this subiect , by occasion of the doctours requiring an account from catholicks touching their fidelity , which account none were less fitt to require then the doctour . causa patet . . but after all , did it become a doctour of such reputation ( though having a design to doe all the mischeif he could to catholicks , who never provoked him ) to call into his ayd two such authours as the answerer to the apology for catholicks , and the answerer to philanax ? for touching the former , he cannot but know that his barbarous answer has mett wich a reply already from an honourable pen. and for the other , where was the doctours modesty when he stiled himr a worthy authour for belying most horribly a party among catholicks , as if they had had an influence ( and had joyned with the doctours friends ) in the most barbarous effects of fanaticism here in the murther of a most excellent prince ? does he not know how oft , and particularly how upon the complaint of the late queen-mother of most precious memory , he has been summoned to make good that his forged calumny ; but all in vain ? js that wretched serpent to be stiled a worthy-authour , who if he had not been warmed and thawed by english preferments , had never been able to hiss in his own countrey , and much less to disgorge his poyson to the disturbance of our island ? js any credit to be given to him who would haue that to be believed in england which all france knows to be false , viz. that his father was a loyall subiect to his king , that is , that he was an apostar from huguenotterie , where confession of faith obliges them to be traytours and rebels whensoever the honour of god ( that is , the defence of their execrable religion ) is concerned ? . if the doctour had had the patience to delay a while the publishing his book , he might both haue cowntenanced and strengthned his cause very considerably by imploring the succours of another of the same french huguenot brood of the loyall family of the du moulins . one by profession of late ( god help us ) à physician , but heretofore ( as is said ) for his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 presented to cromwell , in which he celebrated his victories , created by him a publick reader of history in the vniversity , then he became a controvertist , and teacher of diuinity : the diuinity doubtles then in fashion , and pernicious to lawfull soverains . jt seems the poor snake , not th●iving by his drugs ( for he finds very few of the english holy tribes weary of living long ) betakes himself to his former trade of railing at papists , a trade at all times , but now especially , which brings in as certain a revenue , as if he had sett up an alehouse . this doughty controvertist to putt the world in mind of his first trade of surgery , has giuen catholick religion as he alone thinks , a deadly wound in cutting the very iugulum causae . jf his book had come abroad time enough the doctour could not haue refused to make use of it , being one of the seauenty patrons to whom he has written most pittifully begging epistles , addressed to all degrees , sects and professions , except bishops . and in requitall he cannot but warrant him now a sufficient minister , in case he can get ordination from a iustice of peace , or some other qualified ciuil magistrate . poor england ! art thou so unprovided of factious spirits , that french calvinists must be calld in , and hired to plant among us the poysonnous roots of malicious huguenotterie ? but to return to the doctour himself . j am far from being of his opinion , that the most dangerous sect among us is of those who under pretence of setting up the kingdom of christ , think it lawfull to overturn the kingdoms of the world . such were venner and his company , who ( saith he ) acted to the height of fanaticism among our sectaries . thus far indeed j agree with him , that these frantick fifth monarchists do more professedly teach rebellion then any other sect : but i should renounce common reason , if i should affirm that such à handfull of mad-men , as venner and riscrew , are a sect more dangerous to the kingdom then those numerous armies of sober fanaticks ( presbyterians , independents , anabaptists , &c. ) who all conspired to the raising and prosecuting the late rebellion . yet all these will say as much for themselves as the doctour has here done , viz. we condemn any opposition to government under any pretence whatsoeuer : for it was in obedience to a government such as it was , that the rebellion was upheld ; a government divided from the kings , and usurped on purpose to destroy him . to conclude this point , as zeale for the kings safety and the publick peace is commendable in all english subjects and in such strangers salso whom english preferments have made his subiects , yet certainly in the doctour and his worthy huguenot authour it seems a preposterous and suspicious zeale , which has been shewn only against a party , of which not one can be accused of want of fidelity to his maiesty , whilst they speak not a word , nor so much as intimate any apprehension of danger from those who unanimously conspired to his destruction , and who , for any thing to the contrary appears , cannot yet find one word in the scripture ( or the lawes of the kingdom ) which condemns their former rebellion . but enough , if not too much , of this argument , which the doctour would needs discourse upon . §. . fanaticism returneed upon the doctour and his vvhole religion . . the doctour now for the recreation of his readers hauing represented catholicks , not only such as now liue , but many in glory with god in heaven , travestis in a disguise of ffanaticks acting a ffarce or enterlude composed by him , the glory of which invention he may lawfully challenge to himself alone ; for i do not find that any pattern has been giuen him by any other adversaries of gods church : he cannot iustly take it ill , if in some degree of requitall we endeavour to shew not only himself , but the whole church , i mean all the churches of protestants , as they are principled by him in his book , to be really , without any vizard or disguise very fanaticks . . jn pursuing this subiect , we cannot hinder the doctour from challenging some , by him esteemed great , advantages , in which he much glories , and for which he giues god humble thanks . for . we can find no religious orders among them , upon the institutours and subjects of which we might fasten this title , and whom we might stigmatize with this brand . an attempt indeed has once been made of beginning such an order of young men and women liuing promiscuously together ; but by reason of two defects it presently expired ; for neither would they be persuaded to vow continency ( in such circumstances truly vnreasonable : ) neither could a superiour , he or she be found to whom they could be obliged in conscience to profess obedience ; and no wonder , since , it seems , their own church cannot exact it from them . ▪ we cannot heare of so much as one single person whom we might call a fanatick for leauing the flesh and the world to the end he , or she might entirely consecrate themselues to god in solitude and exercises of spirituall prayer and mortification . . jn case god should call any one to such a state of life , there is an vtter want among them of instructours and instructions proper for it , vnles the crumms of comfort , , the practise of piety , truly for the substance good innocent books , with store of pious affections : or else one , a more late one , yet better then those called , the whole duty of man could serue their turns . but these hauing neuer been intended for such an vse , it cannot reasonably be expected from them . . they all of them ( except the quakers and fifth monarchists , with few besides ) disclaiming all gratuite graces , visions , illuminations , inspirations , passiue vnions , &c. jf vpon this account we should call any of them besides these , fanaticks , they would , and very iustly , call us impudent slanderers . . not one miracle hauing been pretended to since the first reformation not so much as the curing a tertian ague to testify that reformation was pleasing to god , we cannot reasonably accuse them of forging any miracles . . the doctour might haue done well , even in revenge against his enemy m. cressy and his church history , or as he scornfully stiles it great legend , to have given to the world at least a pretty little legend of his reformed saints . but alas , his records will not furnish him with matter of that argument to fill a nutshell . so that he has deprived us of the means of requiting him with finding fanaticks among his rubricated saints . yet if he will consult more ancient and some even primitive records , as s. ireneus , tertullian , and after them s. epiphanius , s. augustin , and philastrius , together with other modern writers , as alphonsus a castro , prateolus , &c. who have compiled books expressly touching the lives and doctrins of many of his predecessours , it will goe hard if he be not able to discover some among them whom he may call saints ( as well as cranmer ) and we in requitall , fanaticks . but he is too wise to loose his advantage . . and all these manifold advantages wee yield up to him , to our shame , and to the doctours great contentment , and to the glory of his protestant churches . yet all this will not discourage vs from endeavouring at least , to iustify that the doctour and his churches are meer fanaticks . this we confidently pronounce , and to make this good we will not , as he has done , exemplify in the writings or actions of a few persons culld out , with an intention to baffle , affront and reuile them , but we will demonstrates vpon his own grounds and principles , that the very nature and essence of his churches and religion , is pure putid fanaticism . . now a demonstrable proof of this the doctour himself affords vs in the . and . principles at the end of his book . his words are these : such a particular way of reuelation being made choice of by god ( for the means of making known his will in order to the happines of mankind ) as writing , we may iustly say , that it is repugnant to the nature of the design , and the wisdom and goodnes of god to giue infallible assurance to persons in writing his will for the benefit of mankind , if those writings may not be vnderstood by all persons who sincerely endeauour to know the meaning of them in all such things as are necessary for their saluation . and consequently , there can be no necessity supposed of any infallible society of men , either to attest or explain those writings among christians . . what is this now but fanaticism in the heighth of the notion signified by the word , to make euery christian soberly enquiring into scripture to be his own teacher in all necessary points of faith ( and it is no matter what becoms of vnnecessary points ) and to be a competent iudge of the true sence of scripture in them : all this without any regard to all externall authority infallible , or fallible either ; for an infallible one being vnnecessary , what necessity can there be of a fallible authority , which none is or can be bound to belieue ? if it be fanaticism to attend to and belieue certain pretended illuminations , inspirations and reuelations concerning particular matters , perhaps of no great importance , with a refusall to submitt them to any externall authority : what is it to ground his whole religion vpon his own fancy , enquiring into the true sense of diuine reuelation ? . but perhaps the doctour thinks himself and his churches secure notwithstanding any thing here said , & because neither himself , nor they , pretend to any new reuelations , illuminations , or inspirations in this matter . notwithstanding he will not find an euasion by this . for besides that , j am sure , presbyterians at least , if not the other sects , and likewise the huguenots of france in their confession of faith , haue always professed that they haue not only the true sense of scripture by inspiration of the holy ghost , but that thereby they are enabled to distinguish true scripture from apocriphall writings : i will take the boldnes to tell him , that he himself does the same , and if he denyes it , it is because he is ignorant of what passes in his own mind . . to shew this , i will here propose a few questions to him , and he not being present to doe it himself , i will suppose he gives me leaue to make answers to them , such as j conceiue he will not disavow . the. . question : does he after a sober enquiry vnderstand and assent to the true sense of scripture in all necessary points ? answer . yes . . question . is his assent ▪ to such points an act of meer naturall reason or is it a diuine faith ? answer . a diuine faith surely as he hopes , and is fully perswaded : for he would be sorry if he belieued not better then devills . . question . is a diuine faith a supernaturall gift of gods holy spirit . answ. yes : the scripture saying so expresly . . quest. is this gift of god communicated to his servants any other way , then by illumination , inspiration , or the like diuine operation equivalent ? answ. j must answer in the doctours place , till he better informs me , that no other way is known . jn the last place . q. does he think himself fobliged to acknowledge that he receies this faith from , or to submitt this his perswasion of a diuine operation in him to the teaching of any church ? answ. he will not ( though j thank god j doe ) acknowledge any church , fallible or infallible , which can iustly require thus much from him . now therefore a primo ad vltimum , does the doctour want any necessary qualification to make him passe for a perfect fanatick and enthusiast , a fanatick by duty imposed on him from the essence of his religion , and moreouer a teacher of fanaticism ? jf i could absolue him from this ; i would very willingly : but sincerely i cannot , since he himself has giuen me a distinct notion of fanaticism , by which he , and his party , vnderstands an enthusiastick way of religion , or resisting authority ( civill or ecclesiasticall ) vnder a pretence of religion : by which notion , in it self true and proper , he is to be iudged without appeale . . now though the doctour takes vpon him , and is generally conceiued by others to be a champion of the church of england , yet perhaps it would be rashnes in me from his warrant alone to affirme that the church of england ( that church , j mean which is established by publick authority ) does now at last ground her faith on such a fanatick principle , as the doctour in her name has layd : for then it might indeed be truly sayd , that the new faith of the church of england , is the very faith of new england . the doctour , how learned soeuer otherwise , he is but a neophit in this church : and therefore all he says not to be swallowed presently without examining : if he wrong the church of england , j am vnwilling to wrong her with him . . and one particular thing which i have observed from his book , makes me suspect that my lords the bishops will not avow this principle imposed by him on them , which is , that his book wants an imprimatur . now if an approbation was either not demanded by him , or being demanded was refused him : it seems strange that against order and publick command it should be permitted to be so dispersed without any controll . but the truth is , there is a great mistery of late in that formality of approbations : for some books want an imprimatur for the reader , which was not wanting to the printer . perhaps the doctours virulence against poore catholicks was so highly approved by the grave censor librorum , that rather then it should be hindred from doing mischief to them , he was content the principles also should passe : which utterly destroy the foundations of his own church . this may seeme more probable , because in like manner a licence is given to the printer for a book of sermons , in one of which , composed entirely of lying invectives against catholicks , and by a most horrible calumny imputing the pouder treason to the preaching of catholick religion , there is this passage becoming a preacher of the gospell ; i wish that the lawes against these foxes ( the papists ) might be put in execution , as they were anciently against wolues . nothing but an vtter extermination of catholicks , it seems , will content the charitable preacher , who seems to intimate also , that in his judgment it is fitt a price should be sett on every catholicks head as formerly on wolues , to be payed to his murderer . such a sermon as this the printer is licenced to print ; but he who gave it , being ashamed that his approbation of so barbarous a piece should appeare to the world , has given order that his licence should be concealed . . what judgment therefore in this regard , to make of the doctours book , truly i cannot determine . only this i may say , that if prelaticall protestants do allow him for their champion , and approve the grounds of his religion , it is one of the most signall victories that in any age has been gained by a single doctour over a whole church , the governours whereof will be forced to acknowledge that they have no authority to teach truth , or condemn errours ; that all the people ( formerly under them ) are becom prophets , and that all their articles , constitutions , and ordonances have been comp●se● and enioyned by an usurped authority , of which they are not willing to be despoyled , and perhaps , after the example of a late scottish bishop , to do pennance for their fault of being bishops . but certainly my lords the bishops will hardly , with all the doctours eloquence , be perswaded to this compliance with him : regard both to the kings and kingdoms safety , and their own character will not permit them to yeeld to an anarchy first in the church , and presently after in the kingdom . . notwithstanding it cannot be denyed but the doctour may expect more then ordinary indulgence from them , since during their late calamities , he did not joyn in the clamour for destroying them . he was no root and branch enemy , but on the contrary generously undertook their defence , and with great boldness told his then maisters , that though episcopall goverment and ordinations , as likewise deans and chapters ( which anciently were the bishops counsell ) were not necessary , nor perhaps convenient , as matters then stood , yet neither was their utter destruction : they might , if the state pleased , be retained without sin , upon condition that for their maintenance the ravenous beasts then in power would be content to vomit up three or four hundred thousand pounds of yearly ●ents . but my best course is to leave the doctour to plead his own cause , much better then i can doe ; and i assure him i would not have touched this string , nor calld to mind these things passed , were it not that hitherto he has made no retractation of any thing written by him , and also if his principles newly published should prevayle in mens minds , they would be more destructive to both kingly and church goverment then all the writings of presbyters and independents &c. . but perhaps after all , the said principles , though pernicious to superiours , may at least produce vnity and peace among the people . for a man would think if every sober enquirer ( and who thinks not himself such anone ) may be allowed to chuse a sence of scripture for himself , what can he desire more ? every one then surely will be quiett and contented . but i must tell him , quid verbo audio , cum facta videam . if indeed men could be content to enioy their faith to themselves , and not think themselves obliged to propagate it ; if they could with patience see their doctrins confuted , their actions derided , and their designs opposed , peace perhaps might be hoped for ad graecas , calendas . . yet i confess that ( according to the welsh proverb , the gospell and a stone will drive away a dogg ) the doctours principles and a severe civill government ioynd together , that is , a charitable indulgence to tender consciences , with a watchfull care to prevent quarrells and eager disputes about religion , may produce that peace , which has hitherto never been seen in england since the reformation , and mens minds , being enured to tast the pleasure of such a peace , may probably in a short time becom as zealous against quarrelling , as they are now for it . . but there is another sort of peace and vnity more fitt to be the argument of writings composed by ecclesiasticall persons , that is , vnity of faith and doctrin . and this vnity was intended certainly by christ , when he left his church established under spirituall governours , to continue in an orderly succession till the worlds end : and was signifyed by s. paul , saying , there is one body and one spirit : one lord , one faith , and one baptism &c. who also declares that this one body and one faith is preserved by apostles and other governours instituted by christ in his church , to the end that gods people may not be tossed to and fro , and carried about with every wind of doctrin &c. this unity also is proposed and professed by us in the creed , i believe one holy catholick and apostolick church . now this vnity the doctour , seeing utterly chaced out of his churches principled by him , earnestly endeavours to prove it a stranger to the catholick church also : and would seem to intimate that if it be possible to be attained , it must be by his principles . and the truth is , if men might enioy their consciences , and would be induced to abstain from quarrelling , persecuting and hating one another ; truth in the end would probably prevaile , were there not one hindrance more , i feare , insuperable , which is , that truth , or true religion has no other passions and carnall affections to combat withall , besides quarrelsomnes . it requires a bending , and even breaking of the will to the obedience of lawfull superiours : it requires yet further a captivating even of the vnderstanding to the obedience of faith taught them by the same superiours : it requires also a free discovery of the most secret and most difficult to be acknowledged crimes , in order to painfull satisfactions to be undertaken for their expiation , and for obtaining absolution and pardon of them : it requires from many a totall renouncing of all carnall lusts , and all externall remedies of quenching them . these and many other severe exactions are required by true religion , and only by it● and therefore no wonder if sects dispensing in these things , prevaile so much against it : yet gods grace is omnipotent , and can work greater and more difficult effects in the hearts of his servants , when he is pleased to exert it . . it is truly an attempt worthy so heroicall a champion to pretend to bring proofs , from which , saith he , it appears that the church of rome can have no advantage in point of vnity above his protestant churches , which is in effect to demonstrate that one article of our faith ceases to be true . . let this be examined : and first let us enquire what helps for unity ( i mean unity of faith and doctrin ) protestants have , and then compare them with those of catholicks . first , for the doctour himself , who as yet , must pass for the common advocate of protestants , till he be disavowed , surely he will not pretend to contribute the least advantage to such unity , unles he hopes to perswade any one , that a licence given to every christian to chuse his own faith out of scripture be a probable way to make all agree in the same faith : which licence he gives ▪ and justifying it ▪ is the principall design of all his principles . is not this all one as to say , let every man in england think and doe what he pleases , and by this means all will agree to be good obedient subiects to the king ? yet the scripture argues the contrary , saying , that because there was no king in israel , everyone went severall ways , doing what was good in his own eyes . so that by the doctours way of proceeding , one would almost believe that his meaning was , that our saviour had no intention that his church should be one , and consequently that generall councills , which took great paines to procure vnity , transgressed therein our saviours order . . but all protestants are not of the doctours mind : for though they generally make scripture , not only the rule , but judge also of faith when controverted : yet they do not so neglect vnity , but that they profess a willingnes to submit their judgments for the sence of scripture to a lawfull generall councill . this the doctour cannot doe , now that he has sett forth his principles , unless he will confess the foundation of his protestant religion to be unsound . he might well enough have done it before , whilst he was a defender of archbishop lawd : but now it appears that the archbishops principles and his are not the same , nor probably ever were , and i doe assure my self that if the archbishop were alive , none could be more ready to condemn them . . other protestants therefore refuse not submission to councells : as may appear by their confident demanding them . for gesner speaking in their name thus writes . we with the loudest voice we can , cry out again and again , and with all our power we humbly and earnestly beg of christian kings and emperours that a free , christian and lawfull councill may be conv●ked , in which the scripture may be permitted to be the iudge of controversies . and our countreyman sutcliff confidently cryes out that catholicks are afraid of councills . yet all the world sees that if a lawfull generall councill were called , according to the order of all past lawfull councills , even those received by protestants , they must necessarily be condemned . . this some others more wise then these loud sollicitours for councills saw ; and therefore when a councill was ready to be called , they , providing for themselves , would not permit any point to be decided by catholick bishops alone , but euery minister , yea lay-men , must have votes in them : and a plurality of suffrages was not to prevayle , but an equall number on both sides must dispute , and lay judges decide : that is , declared hereticks must enioy greater priviledges then catholicks , and instead of a councill there must be an assembly of wild beasts consulting to establish unity in gods church , which , it seems , was only to be procured by confusion , and not by order . therefore a certain lutheran said well of calvinists calling for a lawfull councill , that they did imitate a well known buffon calld marcolphus , who was wont to say , that after all his search he could never find a fitt tree upon which he could willingly be content to be hanged : such a tree would a legitimate councill prove to the doctours principled protestants . . yet there is one expedient for producing unity , which the doctour may doe well to advise upon : for if it take , it will certainly have that effect : even the quakers themselves and fifth monarchists will not refuse to be of the doctours church , if they be not already . nay , which is more , the catholicks will come in too . this is no invention of mine , but was many years since suggested by one of the doctours protestants , robert robertson an english anabaptist of amsterdam . this surely well meaning man perceiving how litle success scripture alone had to vnite sects , agreeing only in opposing popery , in the year sixteen hundred and two printed a book in holland , in which he proposed to them all this means of vnity viz. that they should all ioyn in a common petition to the states to give them leave to assemble themselves in some town or field , and there each sect severally to pray to god , one after another , that he would shew some evident miracle for decision of their controversies , and declaring which among them had the truth , ( which he supposed vndoubtedly was not among catholicks ) and to the end the devill might not enter in , and deceive them with a false miracle , the man told them he had thought of one allowed by scripture , and which he was sure the devill could not work , namely , to make the sun stand still for a certain considerable time : not doubting but that god of his great goodnes would not refuse to condescend to the petition of such devout servants of his in a matter so iust and necessary . . i suppose the doctour will not deny this design ( if succesfull ) to be a most powerfull and unfaileable mean of producing vnity , which his principles have utterly destroyed , and rendred impossible , if not unlawfull . and let him with all his wit and invention devise any other more probable , since the catholick churches authority is reiected by him and them . . notwithstanding all this , the doctour , according to his custom and nature , is confident , that he has demonstrated , that the church of rome can have no advantage in point of vnity above his medley church . now to the end any impartiall reader may be a competent judge between us , i will briefly set down the instruments and means of vnity left by our lord to his church , to 〈◊〉 end the truth of this article of our faith , i believe one catholick church , may remain to the worlds end unalterable . . catholicks do ground their faith on gods revealed will in scripture interpreted by tradition . . they believe that god according to his promise , will lead and preserve his church in all necessary truth , or in the true sense of scripture . . that for this purpose , he foreseeing that heresies and schisms grounded on a false sense of scripture , would in after times come , has established in his church an unfaileable succession of teachers of his truth , with whom he will continue till the worlds end . . it is his will and command that all christians should obey these teachers , who are to give an account of their soules . . these teachers constitute the churches hierarchy . . the vniversall church is represented by these teachers assembled in a lawfull generall councill . . such a councill therefore is the supreme tribunall of the church , from whose decisions there must be no appeale . . but because the difficulties of making such assemblies are extreamly great , therefore it is necessary there should be a standing authority with power to prevent heresies and schisms in the intervalls of councills , arising and disturbing the church . . this ordinary authority is established in the supreme pastour , the bishop of rome . . his iurisdiction therefore as to such an end , extends it self to the whole church , and is exercised in taking care that the ordinances of generall councills be not by any transgressed : and also in case any heresies arise , or that any controversies in causis majoribus can not be otherwise ended , either to determine the points of catholick truth opposed , or at least to impose silence upon disputants and litigants , till he can assemble a councill to declare un-appealably the truth , and to do iustice upon the guilty parties . thus the catholick church is furnished against schisms , and none of these defensive arms will the doctour allow to any of his protestant churches , and yet he confidently avows that catholicks have no advantage . . but let us consider what argumēts an over-weening witt can alledge to prove so strange an affection ; for he might as well have said , that goverment , and such government as obliges the conscience , has not so much force to preserve men in vnity , as anarchy has . . as touching his proofs , which take up above an hundred pages , our answer to them must be , that we may yield him in a manner all the premises of his faulty sillogisms , and must deny the consequence of the conclusions he would draw from them . he tells us many tragicall stories of miscarriages of popes , how they revolted from the empire , and upon such revolting layd the foundation of greatnes to their see : how afterward challenging to themselves a supreme temporall dominion over the whole world , they quarrelled with emperours and other christian princes , from whence followed rebellions , massacres , and a whole iliad of all sorts of mischiefs . well : this being granted , what follows ? therefore says he , papall authority in gods church is no , good mean to produce peace and order ( nor consequently kingly authority in the common wealth , since notwithstanding it many kings have exercised tyranny , and could not always prevent rebellions . ) but s. peter and s. paul never thought of such an argument , when the most abominable monster that ever lived governed the roman world . it was to nero that they commanded christians to be subiect , to pay taxes , to yeeld honour &c. and this not only out of feare of his power , but also for conscience sake . it was such an argument as this ( as the doctour has reason to remember ) that was made use of to the destruction of the best king that ever governed this island . be it therefore granted , that after a thousand years of excellent order produced in the christian world by the government of popes , some of their successours for about an age or two caused intolerable disorders in the church and empire : what follows ? therefore a supreme authority in gods church is of no good use at all : nay more , all manner of authority is useles ; for if any authority , then subordination : and if subordination , then of necessity a supreme . . from hence the doctour descends to a way of arguing yet less reasonable then this : for he tells his reader of i know not how many schisms , yet all of them after the church was above twelve hundred years old ( for before there were scarce any : ) and of yet later disorders since s. bernards time , by reason of quarrels between bishops and monastick orders about exemptions and priviledges : likewise between regulars and seculars the other day in england , and much more such stuff which popes either would not , or rather could not compose , for feare of greater disorders by endangering schisms yet more pernicious to the church then the former . and what would he conclude from hence ? the very same as before : for his argument in brief is this : subiects are oft times rebellious to their superiours : therefore it were better there were no superiours at all . but might he not as rationally argue , that god is governour of the world : yet notwithstanding this the far greatest part of the world , not in one or two , but in all ages , from the beginning hath been rebellious to him , therefore his government is of small benefitt ? . as touching certain ( truly scandalous ) quarrells between bishops and some regulars concerning episcopacy and the churches government , the doctour ought to have taken notice that never any regular pretended episcopacy to be antichristian , as the doctours freinds , the presbyterians , independents , and other later sects have done ; neither have they declared a government by bishops to be in it self indifferent , or that ordination and consecration of bishops and priests is a meere ceremony , and conferred as well and legally by lay magistrates as by ecclesiasticks , as the doctour himself has done : the whole controversy consisting among catholicks about restraining some part of episcopall iurisdiction , and maintaining priviledges granted by some popes to certain regulars . a vast difference therefore there is between catholicks and protestants in disputes touching church government : and utterly irremediable on the protestants side , whereas wee see it ended , or at least silenced , among catholicks . . but differences of this nature are not considerable compared to those obiected by the doctour in the last place , which are touching matters of doctrin , and as he pretends of faith : in which regard he says that the church of rome can have no advantage in point of vnity above others : and further , he , not content with this , adds , that the popes authority being acknowledged by catholicks the fountain of vnity , and all catholicks not agreeing in the popes infallibility , whereas both catholicks and protestants agree in the infallibility of scripture , which is to protestants a more certain way of ending controversy , therefore he concludes that protestants have a more certain and safe way of vnity , then catholicks . for that the pope has not a sufficient power to reduce to vnity parties dissenting in doctrinall points of weight , such as are the controversies between the iesuits and dominicans about grace and free will ; between the dominicans and franciscans about the immaculate conception &c. is , he saith , evident , since those quarrels have to this day continued many ages , and are prosecuted with great eagernes . . in this manner argues the doctour , whereto the answer is obvious . for. . he trifles with and abuses an unskilfull reader , in telling him that the scripture being acknowledged on both sides to be infallible , is a more certain way of ending controversies then the popes determination , who is not by many catholick believed to be infallible . for how can a writing , the sense whereof is controverted , end a controversy ? and to say that a writing is of it self a surer mean to end debates , then when interpreted by a iudge , to say this , and to think to be believed , is to call his readers brutish , irrationall creatures , and to make all tribunalls ridiculous . . it is not the popes infallibility , but his . authority which ends the controversies , either by determining the point in controversy , so as his determination is accepted by the church : or at least by imposing silence among disputants , till himself in a councill unappealeably decide it : by which way of imposing silence severall eager disputes have been ended by popes , as this age can witness . . though all catholicks do in thesi acknowledge that they are obliged , at least , to silence when imposed by the pope : yet it cannot be denyed but that some have not complied with this obligation . but this is not to be imputed to want of authority in the pope , but to the unrulines of mens passions and pride . and the same fault we see in secular tribunalls , which yet does not hinder but that iudges are reputed fitt and proper to end law suits . . that neither the pope nor the councill of trent , have decided the fore mentioned controversies , we are to ascribe either to the inconsiderablenes of them ; or to the want of sufficient clearness of scripture or tradition for either party ; or to a just and prudent care of preventing schisms in the church by such determinations , wherein so considerable parties in the church are divided in opinion . . whereas the doctour says that the points in controversy among catholicks , being many of them the same agitated among protestants , are points of faith , he is manifestly mistaken : for there are among catholicks no points controverted , but such doctrins where the sense of scriptures being variously expounded by the two parties , the church as yet hath determined nothing which sense of them is de fide ( though the parties themselves would each of them have their own to be so , ) not determined , i say , so clearly , as that both sides are agreed that such is the churches decision . as for protestants , what doctrins are esteemed points of faith , and what school disputes , i think no oedipus can resolue . doctour stillingfleet elsewhere saith down right , that the church of england holds no points to be articles of her faith , but those wherein the church of rome also agrees with her , and holds the same to be such . his words are , there is a great deale of difference between the owning of some propositions in order to peace , and the believing of them as necessary articles of faith. the church of england makes no articles of faith , but such as have testimony and approbation of the whole christian world of all ages , and are acknowledged to be such by rome it self ; and in other things she requires subscription to them , not as articles of faith , but as inferiour truths , which she expects submission to , in order to her peace and tranquillity . thus the doctour . but here i cannot well understand , why he saith her subiects subscribe them as inferiour truths , and yet maintains the church of england to require no subscription to her articles as truths , for that surely is a requiring of assent to them , but a subscription of non-contradiction , or non-opposition of them , which consists with the parties holding them errours . now methinks , this the church of england believing nothing as of faith , but what the popes and the roman churches faith also secures to them to be so , should sound somewhat harsh in the ears of many of his disciples . again , it necessarily follows , that the church of rome , notwithstanding its idolatry , fanaticism &c. yet failes in no necessary point of faith. . lastly , that which makes disputes among christians about dostrinall points pernicious , is not the heynousnes of the errours themselves on either party , but the refusall to submitt to the churches authority when condemning them , from whence schisms are inevitable , and such refusers then truly stiled hereticks . no man will deny but that the errour of the photinians [ or socinians ] called anciently homuncionists , for affirming christ to be meer man , is a most grievous errour , incomparably exceeding any among catholicks : yet if one living in the commu●ion of gods church , should hold this most pernicious errour , not knowing that the church had condemned it , and being ready to renounce it assoon as he knew this , s. augustin professes he durst not call such a man an heretick . how the doctour would call such an one , i know not . but this i will iustify , that according to the doctours principles he ought to pass for as good and as well grounded a protestant as himself : and therefore especially orthodox , for not submitting his judgment to the church . §. . the doctrin of pennance vindicated from the doctours mistakes . . now notwithstanding what hath hitherto been said i do nothing doubt but those popular readers , for whom only i conceive , the doctour wrote his book , will still resolutely judge every line of it unanswerable . the like they will say concerning the other points of accusation charged by him on the roman church , as . many obstructions of a holy life . . endless divisions . how happy are we , will they think , who have escaped out of such a babel , were frantick subiects are governed by more frantick superiours ? where mens ears are deafned with endless quarrels ? and where lawes are made against piety ? in the former regards papists may deserve our pitty or contempt : but in the last our hatred . for what cruelty is not too mercyfull against the professours of a religion which teaches so many doctrins hindring a good life necessary to salvation , that it is scarce possible any of them should be an honest man ? the doctour has told them that these wicked men make the sacrament of pennance ioynd with contrition ( that is , as he interprets , a remo●se of mind for sin ) sufficient for salvation : but his adversary , in effect , bids him , with contrition to ioyne confession and absolution . he is contented : but he will needs have one condition more added , which is forsaking of sin . which they of the church of the rome not requiring , notwithstanding all their confessions and absolutions a thousand times repeated , they destroy the necessity of a good life . . here if the doctour were asked , does the catholick church held the doctrin here by him reproved ? he could not say she did , because then the express decision of the councill of trent , disproves him : where three parts of the sacrament of pennance are declared , contrition , confession , and satisfaction : now in two of these the forsaking of sin are contained . for contrition implies a sorrow for sin proceeding from a love of god victorious over sin , and consequently a detestation of sin . and satisfaction signifies yet more , viz : a holy revenge taken by the penitent upon himself for offending god , by denying to himself even lawfull pleasures because unlawfull ones have tempted him to sin : which is a great deale more then protestants require . . a disposition , one may say , inferiour to this required by the councill , served davids turne , who says , i said i will confess my sins unto the lord , and thou forgivest the iniquity of my sin . i cannot now believe the doctour will acknowledge that a sinner repentant of his sins out of a love of god victorious over the devill , the world and the flesh , and weho tstifies that sorrow and that love by submitting to severe pennances and mortifications , willing also to declare to his own confusion , his most secret sins , with a serious purpose of amendment , will thereby be put in a state of pard●n and salvation : especially having received from gods authorised ministers , absolution from his sins : absolution i say pronounced by commission and iurisdiction from christ himself , and not such an aery phantosme of an absolution as the doctour interprets to be the applying the promises of pardon in scripture to the particular case of dying persons , for this , saith he , is that we mean by absolution : and which say i , the silliest woman in the doctours parish can conferr as well and validly as himself . but who are these wee , who mean no more then this by priestly absolution ? i am sure not the prelats of his church , ( but i must not say his church when i mean the church of england ) who all hitherto have justified this as one essentiall character of the order of priesthood and episcopat ; unles since the new reformation ( not yet ten years old ) they have been content that this character should be wiped out by the doctour , and that instead of the fathers of gods church , maister calvin should be the universall authentick teacher of their clergy . but i believe the doctour will in vain expect this compliance from them : and i am sure the now highest and worthiest of his prelats , will not be of the number of the doctours wee , who has solidly asserted this primitive doctrin , and to confute whom perhaps the doctour has published so pittifull a sense of absolution ; to their preiudice ingratiating himself with all other sects , enemies to all ecclesiasticall orders and ordinations , and making every one of them ( as before iudges of the scriptures sense , so ) now vsurpers of their offices , and , as they hope , ere long of their revenues . . the church then is manifestly free from the charge here imputed to catholicks by the doctour , and by him made use of to deterr any one from ioyning themselves to her , because in her ( not , by her ) doctrins are by some taught destroying the necessity of a good life . all the doctour can say is : some reach some such doctrins , which some also refute , and the whole church disavows . this being so , with what conscience can the doctour pretend danger upon this account in being members of the catholick church , whenas in his own protestant churches , for which he has layd grounds and principles , every christian is allowed by himself in these principles to chuse not only what opinions , but what articles of faith ( after using a sober enquiry into the scriptures ) they like best . and what most horrid doctrins he has thereby excused and defended , all christendom at this time sees with amazement and detestation . . surely when the doctour wrote this passage he conceived himself quarrelling not with catholicks , who constantly assert against protestants , the necessity of good works to salvation , and their efficacy in it , upon supposition of our lords gracious promise to reward them , but with some of his own protestants ( perhaps with himself ) who exclude all merit of good works from a christians salvation : or with his patriarch luther , who said that good works did more harme then good ; therefore he may doe well to ask them pardon after contrition , and confession of his fault . . certainly if he could bring himself to a willingnes of informing himself in true catholick doctrins , he would find that the way to salvation there taught is much strayter then that which is chosen by protestants , and holines of life far more strictly required . for proof of which it were sufficient only to repeat what was even now cited out of the councill of trent touching the doctrin of pennance : but a proof visible of late to all our eys are so many apostats from the catholick church , apostats first from obedience and chastity , and next from faith ; for doe not they declare to all the world that carnall liberty and carnall lusts drove them first out of their monasteries , and next out of the church : as soon as they come into the aire of protestancy , a woman becoms necessary to them , and fasting insupportable , and if they can ravish from christ a spouse consecrated to him , they promise to themselves a more gainfull and honorable reception . but if they will needs have women , because the woman is handsom and attractive , is therefore the pope presently turned antichrist ? does our lord cease to be present in the sacrament ? is purgatory presently extinguished ? doe angells and saints no longer deserve to be acknowledged our protectours ? in a word , have they forgotten what they formerly beleived and are they in a moment inspired to answer to a new catechism , full of new articles of faith , gravely proposed to them by a patriarch and pandar for impure apostats , out of the pulpitt ? what influence has the woman upon them to make all this change ? truly the very same the woman had from the creation . she presents an apple to them , which wonderfully delights them to look upon ( especially if growing in england , where they heare the fairest are to be had . ) but if besides seeing it , they get a tast of the apple , their eys are presently opened , and as it were in uno radio solis they see ( all ) good and evill , and nothing appears good but what the woman approves , and without which they can not enjoy and maintain the woman , nor make a companion and mistress to our noblest young ladyes . . but leaving these putrid carcinomata of the catholick church , and infamous stains to the protestant , is it not apparent that the doctrin of pennance and mortification hath been rejected by protestants , not because they are hindrances of good life ( as the doctour says , and i dare say not one understanding person in his own parish beleives him ) but for the severity of them , and contradiction to flesh and blood ? besides this , where doe we hear of restitution of goods got by usury and deceit among protestants , there being among them no obligation of confessing such sins , and by consequence of making satisfaction , without which absolution cannot be granted ? the doctour will not allow me here to name those schooles of holiness , and devotion , monasteries , though from the primitive times esteemed a principall ornament of gods church , because he will esteem them nothing but schooles of fanaticism . . but in generall most certain it is , that among catholicks the study of ways promoting holiness and piety is incomparably greater , but withall more painfull , then among protestants . . but this satisfies not the doctour , who brings in bishop taylour , using the same argument with him in his disswasive from popery , viz : the no-necessity of forsaking sins in the catholick church , since if a man commits them again and again , he knows a present remedy , toties quoties ? it is but confessing with sorrow or attrition , and upon absolution he is as whole , as if he had not sinned . yea if after sixty or eighty years together of a wicked life , he shall doe this in the article of his death , this instantly passes him into a state of salvation . yea moreover the doctour afterwards taxes the indulgence of the roman church , because in her rituall she ordains that extreme-vnction should be conferred on persons unable to confess as being under a delirium , or wholly insensible , if before it be but probable that they desired it , or gave any signs of contrition . and hereby , saith he , if any sins have remained upon them , they are taken of by vertue of this sacred vnction . . as touching the too great facility allowed by some catholick writers in giving absolution toties quoties to sinners returning to their vomit , and giving but small signs of their will to relinquish sins , the doctour does very well to taxe it , as a great hindrance indeed to a holy life . but because some few have practised , or perhaps taught this , he does very ill to make this a disswasive from ioyning to the church herself , expressly condemning in the councill of trent such a facility in confessours : saying , the priest of our lord ought as far as his spirit and prudence shall suggest to enioyn wholesom and convenient satisfactions , according to the quality of crimes and ability of penitents : least if they should happen to connive at sins , and be indulgent to their penitents by enioyning sleight pennances for grieveous crimes , they themselves become partakers of the crimes of others . . besides this , the doctour , i believe , is not ignorant , though it was not for his purpose to take notice of it , that not very long since , among severall dangerous positions collected out of some modern casuists , such scandalous relaxations in administring the sacrament of pennance had a principall place , all which were not only condemnd by the bishops of france , almost in every diocese : but also a book , the author of which undertook to defend them , was solemnly prohibited , and condemned by the pope : since which time such doctrins have been wholly restrained and silenced . §. . of conferring absolution and extreme vnction in articulo mortis . . in the next place for as much as concerns the conferring absolution and administring the sacrament of extreme vnction to persons in articulo mortis , who do , or have given any sign of sorrow or desire of them : the church in her rituall does no more then hath been the practise ever since the first councill of nicea . and s. augustin treating of this subiect in a sermon , tells his auditors that out of charity and care to dying persons , gods ministers upon the least testification of sorrow in such patients administer the sacrament to them , though despairing that they shall live to doe works worthy of pennance , so leaving them to gods mercy : ( this they did by warrant from the first councill of arles , and the declaration of pope innocent ) but withall he seriously exhorts them to doe such works in time of health , and not to to an absolution conferr'd in such circumstances ; for though they may be confident of enioying the full effect of that sacrament , yet , saith he , i am not confident of i● . yet notwithstanding such want of confidence he would not be wanting to them , to afford them all his assistance in such a perillous hour . and if the doctour were seriously examined by any one of his freinds , or by any but a catholick , whether in such circumstances he would refuse an absolution , i mean an absolution according to his mode , by applying the promises of the gospell to his patient ; sure he would not say that his custom among his parishioners is to bid the poor agonizant to goe to the devill , for there was no hopes for him . he would no doubt tell him of promises , and bid him rely upon them , though he will not permit catholicks to do so . . but the doctour in prosecuting this subiect alters his method of proceeding . for whereas generally in his book he endeavoured to make catholick religion odious , by telling stories of the actions and doctrins of particular persons , disowned by the church : here he absolves some catholick doctours , among the rest , monsieur arnaud , and charges the church itself for teaching a doctrin ( as he pretends ) manifestly hindring devotion and a good life , viz. in that her canon : whosoever shall say , that the sacraments do not conferr grace , exopere operato , let him be anathema . now says he , if grace be effectually conferred by the force of the bare externall action ( acknowledged by all catholicks ) what need can there be of a true preparation of the mind by the exercise of faith , prayer , repentance &c. in order to the receiving the benefitt of them ? he further adds , that thoug● cassander interprets this to have respect to the worth of the priest , as if his unworthines could hinder the validity and efficacy of sacraments , though the receivers be never so well prepared : yet ( saith he ) this cannot consist with the councills meaning , because in the twelfth canon following it was condemned expressly , and it is not to be supposed that the councill would frame two canons to condemn the same errour . . thus argues the doctour , but under favour deales not fairely in not citing the councills canon entirely , which had he done , would have spoyled his inferences from it . the words are , whosoever shall say that by the sacraments themselves of the new law grace is not conferr'd ex opere operato , but that a belief alone of the divine promise is sufficient for the obtaining grace , let him be anathema . which canon was made specially against luthers errour , who attributed all good to faith alone , making the sacraments entirely useless . in which errour i doe not know that he is followed by any sober protestants , except the doctour , who by his discourse seems to renounce all benefitt from the sacraments themselves : he will owe grace to nothing but his own faith , prayer &c. in his opinion the sacraments of the new law as well as the old , are [ infirma & egena elementa ] weak and beggarly elements . but scripture and tradition have taught the church , and the church us , otherwise , viz. that by baptism the grace of regeneration is conferr'd ; that the holy eucharist is semen immortalitatis ; that by extreme vnction and the priests prayers sins are forgiven &c. . neither from hence can the doctour rationally inferr , that there will be no need of a true preparation of mind by the excuse of faith &c. since the church herself requires such preparation as the doctour speaks of : and the very term of preparation implies that some benefitt is expected to be received from the work it self , besides , and beyond what is obtained by preparations . . but this being a doctrinall controversy and brought in only by the way in this his present discourse , the prosecution of it ought to be reserved for his worthy adversary , if he think good : yet this right i will doe the doctour , that he has with monsieur arnaud justly censured one particular writer who required as necessary , for example , to a worthy receiving of the most holy eucharist no other preparation of mind but only an absence of mortall sins , to be had by confession of them . but will any rationall man judge that because there are found in a church a few teachers of security , and sowers of pillows under mens ellbows , that therefore it is dangerous to be a member of a church most free from warranting that doctrin which is scarce received by one bishop in it . . yea moreover , if he would search among school-men who make the largest allowances in this business , he will find that generally all require faith and repentance in the receivers of baptism , and these two joyned with confession for the sacrament of pennance ; they require also the state of grace ( that is the habit of faith , hope and charity , and so of devotion ) for the eucharist &c. and whosoever wants any such predispositions is reckoned by them among such as do ponere obicem . §. . of prayer for the dead . . another scandalous thing for which the doctour accuseth the church of rome is her charity , charity to the dead , who are not able to help themselves , and which evidently has been practised by all churches from the beginning , till protestantism arose . . but wherein lyes the fault of this charity ? the doctour tells us , that the care of a good life is taken off among catholicks by supposing an exp●ation of sin ( by the prayers of the living ) after death . whereas wee protestants , says he , in our plain doctrin teaching that every impenitent sinner must expect no less then eternall vengeance in another world , if this will not prevail upon men to leave their sins , and lead a good life , we cannot imagine a groundles fiction of purgatory should ever doe it . . who would not think now that the doctour in such a way of discoursing is willing that his readers should believe that catholicks very seldom , if ever , endeavoured to terrify impenitent sinners with the threatning of eternall torments in hell fire ? and no doubt if he had plainly said so he would not have wanted some believing readers , it being in this age so gainfull a trade to traduce catholicks by odious , false imputations both in pulpits , presses , and any where else . . therefore though i must not expect to be believed by all , that i understand the doctrin of the catholick church so well as the doctour , yet i will not forbear plainly to declare it . catholicks are taught . . that finally impenitent sinners , if guilty of mortall sins , shall irremediably suffer everlasting torments of hell. . that catholicks guilty of mortall or venial sins , and repenting of them before death , unless they also undergoe such pennances and satisfactions as the church imposes , or such as in any faulty indulgence of their spirituall superiours herein , the quality of their sins and the imperfection of their contrition in gods iustice requires , and by that means dye in perfect charity , and their souls entirely purged from the stains of them , shall suffer most greivous yet temporall , punishments after death , since no unclean thing , remaining so , can enter into the kingdom of god. . we are taught that many conditions are required of us to the end our lords all , sufficient merits and satisfactions may be applied to us , by the charity , alms , and prayers of devout catholicks . . now such being the catholick doctrin touching this point , with what shew of reason can any one affirm , that this doctrin takes away the care of a good life ? it teaches all that protestants teach touching the pains of hell attending a wicked life : and withall it teaches the terrible consequences of a tepid , negligent , imperfect , though otherwise not bad life , which protestants do not teach : protestants require to repentance only a change of life : but the catholick church , besides this , requires satisfaction for past sins , herein following primitive antiquity , whose doctrine in this point is thus declared by s. augustin : it is not sufficient for a penitent sinner to change his manners to the better , and to recede from evill actions , except for sins past satisfaction be made to god by the dolour of pennance , by humble sighs and groans , by the sacrifice of a contrite heart , and by almsgiving &c. thus it is that the catholick church hinders a good life , and thus do protestants promote it . . yea but , says the doctour , a fear of such temporall torments is in a manner taken away by an expectation of the charity and devotion of living freinds , especially if the dead person had been rich , and had left means of procuring masses &c. for his soule . be it so : yet how ever , some terrour there is to catholicks , restraining them from security in an imperfect life , which protestants laugh at , whilst they promise imperfect soules with all their stains , a present possession of heaven after death , to be obtained not by laborious good works , but by faith , that is , a strong fancy that their sins are certainly forgiven , and that they are of the number of gods elect , in whom god sees no sins , though themselves & their neighbours see too too many . . but the doctour pleases himself in one great advantage which he has found against this doctrine : which is thus expressed by him , how easy is it ( according to this doctrin ) for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of god ? but with his leave , such easines of being saved is not thereby promised to rich men . yet thus much we will allow to the doctour , that in some small regard rich men may enioy an advantage , as to salvation , which poor men want ; and this surely he will not deny , when he considers that speech of our saviour , who though he had formerly said , how hardly shall a rich man enter into the kingdom of heaven ? yet speaking to rich men , he counsells them , saying , make to your selves freinds of the mammon of iniquity , that when ye faile they may receiue you into euerlasting tabernacles . which speech of his seems exactly pertinent to the present subiect . here it is euident that rich men by the ir riches may procure that which poor men for want of the mammon of iniquity cannot . . yet in many other regards it is certain that poor men haue a very great advantage aboue the rich , being free from many temptations and snares to wich wealth , ease and plenty exposes men . so that at least for escaping hell and purgatory the poorer are in a much fairer and easier way . the poor also are these freinds here spoken of by our lord , beloued of god , who not only with ease enter into his kingdom , but by their credit can help to bring their rich benefactors thither also . . but after all this , the application of the churches and particular persons prayers and suffrages for the deceased , that are procured by the alms of the rich , whether it be not vniuersall or whether , to recompence this , the poor do not share more the common prayers of the church , not made with respect to particular persons , the church hath determined nothing . and of these common prayers of the church more applied to the poor and freindles , s. augustin speaks thus [ j quote him because being a father of great reputation , he may perhaps more safely escape the doctours contempt and drollery ] a question being putt to the said father by s. paulinus bishop of nola , whether it were any benefit or advantage to the soule after death to be buried in the memoriall , or near the shrine or tombe of a martyr ? he answered ; it was : that so this might mind the kindred or freinds of the deceased to recommend such a soule to the martyr , whose relicks lay there , so to be helped with our lord by his intercession ( where it may be observed , that s. augustin both allows praying to the martyr in the behalf of such deceased , and supposes the martyrs hearing such prayers ) but withall the father tells them , that should some deceased not have the happines to be buried in such a holyplace , others are not therefore to neglect their supplications for such , because not so minded of them , as of others , when they goe to the memoriall of the martyr ; and then comes to our very case , that howeuer such soules may want kindred or freinds to remember them , as the other hath : yet the common prayers of the church pro defunctis are without naming any particular persons , offred vp for them . his words are , adsupplicationes faciendas pro omnibus in christianâ & catholica societate defunctis , etiam tacitis nominibus quorumcumque sub generali commemoratione suscepit ecclesia : vt quibus ad ista desunt parentes aut filij , aut quicunque cognati velamici , ab vna eis exhibeantur pia matre communi . §. . of indulgences . . but toward the latter end of his book treating of indulgences the doctour alledges a practise in the church which these catholicks who pretend to iustify it , will , j belieue , find very great difficulty in answering the doctours proofs , that it is really a hindrance of the care of a good life . if any therefore do find harm by relying vpon such a practise , they may thank themselues , they voluntarily and without any obligation procure such harm to themselues . the councill of trent in its decision of this point of indulgences , expressly condemns a too frequent vse of them , as enervating ecclesiasticall discipline , and desirous to correct all scandalous abuses crept in them , ordains an vtter abolishment of all vnlawfull gain for the obtaining of them , enioyning likewise all bishops in their provinciall synods to take care that the benefit of indulgences may be dispensed piously , holily and without corruption to the people . . now if after such solicitude shewed by the councill , all abuses doe not yet cease , this must be imputed to humane frailty and corruption , and to the erroneous doctrin of some schoolmen : or rather some passages of them singled out from the context , and stript from the necessary circumstances , and so misapplied , whereby the power of the donour of them is extended without its certain limitts , and a vertue attributed to them far exceeding that which the present church acknowledges in them . . this seems plainly to appeare by the words of the councill declaring , that since a power of conferring indulgences hath been giuen by christ to his church , which from the most ancient times hath exercised this power , diuinely granted to her ; therefore the holy synod doth teach and command the vse of indulgences to be retained in the church , as very healthfull to christian people , and approved by the authority of holy councills . . from this declaration of the councill the doctour truly says , that some catholick writers do make this deduction , that indulgences are only a relaxation of the ancient severity of church disciplin according to the old penitentiall canons . which deduction seems the lesse irrationall , since the indulgences inserted by the councill are the same , which from the most ancient times have been exercised by the church . and such an vse of indulgences if the doctour refuse to the catholick church , he dares not to his own , since he cannot deny but that in the spirituall courts the iudges assume a power either to qualify corporall punishments imposed by the laws and canons on speciall sins , or commuting them into pecuniary . but i must add one thing , that euen these indulgences may be said to extend their vertue till after death : since it is certain that being duly administred , and taking away the obligation to the seuerity of the penitential canons , they doe consequently abate the suffrings after death , which otherwise the penitent was to vndergoe having neglected to make satisfaction in this life . in a word , catholicks are taught that indulgences are beneficiall to none but those that are already in the state of grace : and that remission of penalty only , and not sin , is conceded by them : likewise that they relate to purgatory only , not to hell : and lastly by the form of them it appears that the vertue of them after death is only per modum suffragij . . as touching the doctours questions concerning indulgences if he expect an answer to them , he must goe into some of our catholick schooles , where he will not faile to receiue solutions to them all , if they were twice as many ; but i dare not assure him that these solutions will give him satisfaction . for my part i have nothing to say about them , nor , i am sure , any other catholicks , as a catholick : neither doe i belieue that euer any protestant controvertist wrote a volume against the catholick church , of which not near a tenth part did in any sort concern her : and such a book the doctour , certainly , knows his to be : and by consequence every ingenious prudent reader will easily discouer from how poysonous a heart it issued , and to how vnchristian an end it was directed . §. . of the churches liturgy in a tongue not generally understood . . another practise in the catholick church there is which the doctour esteems a notable hindrance to piety , which is , the publick ecclesiasticall office being in a tongue vnder stood by few . this he will not allow to be a matter of discipline only , and consequently in the churches power to alter : because the churches power is only to edification , for a power beyond that the apostles themselues never challenged : now it is manifest , saith he , that s. paul judges praying or preaching in an vnknown tongue not to be of edification . . notwithstanding , with the doctours favour , his allegations doe not proue the mater not to be of discipline meerly . for the case stands thus : it was far from being the churches primary intention that the publick office should be in a tongue not vnderstood by the people ; for it was at first composed in the language generally spoken and vnderstood through europe . but that language being changed by a mixture of the dialects of seuerall barbarous nations , she thought it not prudent that the publick service of god composed with great care and exactnes , should be exposed in euery nation to vnsskillfull translatours , and every age to be varied , as dialects did alter , it not being in her power to examine all translations after every new edition . and the same judgmēt the most ancient & most extended churches in the east had , all which in a manner do to this day retain their ancient liturgies , now not vnderstood by the common ignorant people . . notwithstanding to repair , as much as may be , this incommodity , the roman church ( at least ) has taken great care in her councills that the people in all nations should be furnished with devotions in their natiue tongues , which are for the most part taken out of the publick liturgy , and moreouer has commanded all pastours to interpret to the people in the administring of sacraments , especially the most holy eucharist , whatsoever they are capable of vnderstanding : by which means there is scarce a rustick so ignorant but well vnderstands what the priest does through the whole course of the masse . . matters standing thus , the church esteems it more prudent and more conducing also to edification in generall , that all catholick churches should serve god vniformly in a language which cannot be corrupted , especially such provisions being made for the peoples good , then to haue the service of god exposed to corruptions and continuall changes . but if the doctour think himself wiser then the whole western and most eastern churches , much ioy may he take in his great humility . . but after all , how can the people say , amen , will the doctour say from s. paul ? i answer . s. paul in that place speaks not of the common divine service , which was celebrated then in a language well vnderstood : and at corinth doubtles in the greek tongue : but of these spirituall hymns and praises of god extraordinary , that were delivered by some in a tongue vnknown . and all that can be deduced from it , and applied to the publick divine servcie , is this , that either this be performed in a known tongue : or when the church hath reasonable motives ( which she , not we , must judge of ) not to change the formerly vsed language of it , so much as is necessary for the common people to vnderstand , and say amen to , be interpreted , as the apostle saith there ouer and over again . ) now such prayers , collects , psalms , hymns , litanies &c. as are thought necessary for the common people , are interpreted by the churches order , and they have them ready in their primers , manuels &c. euen all the parts also of the service of the masse necessary to be known by them . . jt is certain that it is not out of a desire that the people should be ignorāt that the church thinks not meet to change the language of her liturgy . and i would to god , that were the only hindrance of reuniting england to her once beloued mother , for then the breach would not last long . §. . of the churches denying the reading of the bible indifferently to all . . but the last and greatest hindrance of piety , and ( which is wonderfull ) of vnity likewise , in the doctours opinion , is the roman church her denying the reading of scripture to all persons promiscuously , without exception . this fault the doctour will neuer forgiue her. and the truth is , if euer there should be a restraint of such liberty in england , all the principles of his religion would vtterly goe to wrack . for how then should euery sober enquirer into scripture frame a religion to himself ? how much would the number of sects be diminished , ( which is great pitty ? ) then pastours and teachers would perswade the people that it is their duty to believe and obey them , and not to be their own directours : which is intolerable . therefore in so great a concern , the doctours zeale in this point aboue others may well be forgiuen him . . how much would the doctour be beholden to that freindly man who could furnish him with but one line out of any ancient ecclesiasticall writer , father or councill to iustify the fundamentall principle of his , and ; as he pretends of all protestants religion , viz. that euery sober enquirer may be a iudge infallible of the sense of scripture in all points necessary to saluation ? but i can assure him , such a freind is not to be found . nay i believe he would thank that man who could shew any ancient heretick an authour of that enormous doctrin : for as he cannot but know that he embraces seuerall points condemned by the ancient church in hereticks , he would , no doubt , with ioy adopt this point so beneficiall and necessary to the fabrick of his protestant churches . . to descend to our modern times : though luther , calvin , zuinglius , &c. those disturbers of the world , to gain the affections of the common rabble , were very earnest to put the bible into their hands , yet does the doctour think that they would patiently haue suffred any of their followers to chuse any other religion out of it , but what they , as prophets sent from god , had taught them ? nay would the doctour take it well of his own parishioners if they should doe so ? yet he is angry with catholicks because we rather trust the churches iudgment , then our own : a strange quarrell certainly . but it is a folly to think that any of the common sort of people seek into the bible to find their religion there ▪ not one in ten thousand among us but for his whole faith relyes vpon the credit and supposed honesty of some zealous lecturer , or reputed learned doctour . now j would fain know of doctour stillingfleet with what conscience he can suffer a whole congregation of well meaning men , who can rely vpon nothing but authority , to prefer his authority before that of the whole church : for nothing can be more contrary to the rules of common reason in them ; and for their sinning against reason he must be answerable to god. how does one of the doctours parishioners find his whole religion in scripture ? thus : the doctour will bid him read the last verse of the . chap. to the romans : ( or he will read the words to him ) the gift of god is eternall life : here , says he , the papists are plainly confuted , who say that god rewards our good works with heaven . he will tell him again that the papists hold that our lords body is in the sacrament . how shall they be confuted ? christ indeed says , this is my body : what then ? this must be vnderstood as if he had sayd , this is the figure of my body . then plain scripture interpreted by the doctour is against them . again , look out the first chapter to titus , you will find that those who are called elders , or presbiters in the fifth verse , are called bishops in the seaventh : here our antichristian prelats are plainly confuted , who exalt themselues aboue elders , &c. . but one point there is of main importance to these who will find all things in scripture , which is , a proof that these books which they are taught to call scripture , are the same which were anciently written by men inspired by god : that they have not been corrupted , and that they are rightly interpreted . none of all these things they can find in scripture : what remedy therfore for this ? none in the world , but the doctours own authority . he will tell them perhaps that the vniversall tradition of all ages , which is of it self credible , testifies this , and therefore they ought to belieue it . but if they should reply , and tell the doctour , that for all necessary points of belief they were , according to his principles , to be iudges for themselues , but of that which they call tradition , they know not how to iudge . if any of the doctours parishioners should be thus troublesom : then must he be angry , and with a frown tell them , will ye be papists ? is it not fitter ye should believe me , then like blind papists , pin your soules vpon the authority of the present vniversall church ? this stops their mouths : now they are fully satisfied , and ask pardon for presuming to doubt , hauing such an oracle to teach them : that they ought to be their own teachers . ) thus it is that ordinary people , even boyes and girles , are to be fooled , and made to believe that they see all their religion in scripture : whenas in very truth they may as well be told , that they smell it out with their noses , as i once heard sir francis wenman say in a discourse on a subiect like this . . howeuer the whole stress of the doctours religion lying vpon it , that euery christian is to be a judge of the sence of scripture : hence it was necessary for his ends to contend manibus pedibusque that none should be discouraged from reading scripture : ( yet i hope he will excuse those who are not able to read . . to make this good , he employes the vtmost of his invention , subtilty and reading . he who cannot find out one single short sentence in antiquity to help to support the main pillar of his religion : yea moreouer he who has not alledged one probable argument of reason for strengthning that tottering pillar , except only a negatiue one , which is this , that christians haue no obligation to belieue any church or teacher expounding the sence of scripture , therefore they must if they will be believers , believe themselues alone : in this miserable exigence this same doctour notwithstanding to proue that christians in all times were indulged and exhorted to read the scriptures , flourishes in a luxuriant stile with demonstrations a priori , a posteriori , per reductionem ad absurdum & impossible , which demonstrations also he backs with an army of ancient fathers teaching as he himself does , viz. s. clement , s. ignatius , s. policarpus , clemens alexandrinus , tertullian , origen , s. basill , s. hierome , s. chrisostome , s. augustin , &c. and moreouer that this was their doctrin is ( saith he ) acknowledged by late catholick diuines , espenceus and alphonsus a castro , and ( one more i will add , ) by the vnworthy writer of this treatise also . . but this being granted , no catholick , and , j think , no man in his right witts will grant , that euery porter , cobler or landresse is capable to instruct themselues by reading the scripture alone , or if they cannot read them , by hearing them read , in this point of main importance , that scriptures are gods scriptures , or to clear the doctrine of the mystery of the holy trinity , the incarnation of our saviour , the procession of the holy ghost , or the point of iustification , as determined by s. paul and s. iames , &c. i have so much confidence now in the doctours ingenuity that he will also acknowledge thus much , yea by his experience in teaching ignorant people , j am assured he has found no small difficulty in making such and other like necessary doctrins of christianity sink into the minds of the rude people , though sett down in the simplest , plainest catechisms for infants , though also those catechisms were with all his skill explained by himself . . now taking this for granted ( till he contradict it ) j would ask him , does he in his conscience think that the forecited fathers , when they exhorted the christians of their times to the reading of scriptures did not suppose that for the sence of them in things any way difficult or controverted they would submitt their judgements to the church : which had they not supposed , they would haue been less liberal in putting the scriptures into their hands ? for hence it is that the bible is called by s. ambrose , liber sacerdotalis , because to be dispensed to the people according us bishops and priests iudged it might proue beneficiall to them , and in all ambiguities to be interpreted by the same pastours , besides this , the art of printing being then vnknown , it was not every ordinary mechanick who could purchase so costly a manuscript , as the bible was : every groom or chamber-maid could not carry it vnder their arms to church , vnles they could spare at least two years wages to buy it , and hire also a litle asse to carry it , so great was the bulk , considering the largenes of letters writen in these ancient times . the persons invited therefore by these holy fathers to the frequent reading of scriptures , were for the most part those of the higher rank , of more ingenuous education , and so prudence and discretion : and especially such as they knew to be firm to the teaching of the church . now to such persons the roman church freely allows the reading of scriptures : and on the other side , for such as the doctour qualifies with the name of protestants according to his new mode , that is independents on any authority , the fathers most certainly would more strictly , then they are now , have pro-prohibited the reading of them . . neither is it much to his purpose , his alledging that though in the time of the first four generall councills the fathers had tryall enough of the mischief of heresies , yet notwithstanding they did not on that account forbid the people to read the scriptures . for who knows not the vast difference between the ancient and our modern heresies ? anciently the in ventours of heresies , were great learned prelats , and subtile philosophers , and the obiect of their heresies were sublime mysteries of faith , examined and framed by them according to the grounds of plato's or aristole's philosophy , far above the reach of vulgar capacities ; from whence it is that tertullian calls the ancient philosophers , the patriarchs of hereticks . and moreover their applications of texts of scriptures for confirming such heresies , were so speculatively nice and acroamaticall , that both great sharpnes of witt and learning too were necessary to the discovering and unridling the fallacy . hence it came to pass that in those dayes the scriptures might freely enough be read by ordinary christians without danger , especially considering their intention in reading them was not to find out a new religion , but to instruct themselves in piety , and inflame their hearts in the divine love. . thus stood matters in the church during the times of the first four generall councills . but our modern heresies are of a quite different complexion . they are conversant about matters obvious to the weakest capacities , as the external administration of sacraments , the iurisdiction of superiours , civill and ecclesiasticall , the manner of mens devotions , the institution of religious orders , the obligation of vows ; the ordonnances of the church teaching fasting , matrimony , celibacy , paying of tithes , &c. or if about sublime mysteries , men are taught to examine such mysteries by naturall reason and the verdict of their outward senses . hence it is come to pass that our late heresiarcks have not been profound subtle philosophers , but at the best a few sensuall incestuous fryars abroad , and popular preachers at home : yea , as we have lately seen , even mechanicks , souldiers or any other ignorant persons actuated by the spirit of pride and licentiousness to begin a sect fitt for the palats and complexions of seekers after novelties . . matters therefore standing thus in these later times , can any rationall man be perswaded that if any of those holy fathers , cited by the doctour , had lived among us , or if such heresies had been spred among their disciples , and pretended to have been evidently deduced from gods word , they would have been so zealous in their exhortations to a promiscuous reading of scriptures ? but how much think we , would such their zeale have been cooled , in case such an architect of principles , as the doctour is , had been in vogue in their times ? for principles they are which evidently contain the most pernicious , soule-destroying heresy that ever assaulted gods church : principles which banish peace , charity , humility and obedience vtterly from the church and state : principles which if through gods judgment they should generally prevaile , what think you would become of our saviours promise , for there would not be left in the world one church at all , true or false : since where every one is acknowledged the only inventer and iudge of his own faith , there may meet a multitude , but it is no church , none having right over another ; errour and truth , vertue and vice being equally iustifiable . lastly these are principles , the admirable vanity of which i think was never paralleld by any heresiarch , but a certain rhetorius mentioned by philastrius , who taught , that all heresies were in their precepts of life , innocent ; and in their doctrins true : [ omnes hereses rectê ambulare , & vera docere . ] . non sum ambitiosus in malis , i may with a good conscience protest that it is only truth and a charitable compassion to soules miserably seduced by so comprehensive a heresy as is contained in the dostours principles , which hath moved mee to fix such a brand upon them : not that i suspect that he would approve such consequences : but i am confident with all his skill he cannot avoyd them . . now i must acquaint the doctour that my iust indignation against these principles is heightned from my own unhappines , if not guilt in being the first who gave occasion that they should be known and received into the church of england . this i am sure neither he , nor perhaps any one now alive , does know , and therefore i will acquaint him with the true story concerning them . . as i remember it was in the year . that i had occasion to accompany a noble freind in a iourney from dublin to london . when we were ready to return , i went to a booksellers shop to search out some b●oks to be carried back into ireland , and among others i bought daillé du vray usage des peres , a book at that time not at all taken notice of . that book the same night i shewd to my noble dear lord lucius lord falkland , who perusing and liking the contents of it , desired me to give it him , which i willingly did . about a month after my return into ireland , he sent me a most civill letter , full of thanks both in his own , but especially in m. chillingworths name for that small present , telling me that that litle book had saved him a most tedious labour of reading almost twenty great volumes . . this mysterious speech i easily understood . for m. chillingworth a litle before was returned out of flanders ; where he had professed himself a catholick : and being sent for by archbishop laud , was strictly examined by him touching his religion , and whether he went to masse , or common prayer ; to whom he gaue this account , that he had entertained such scruples touching catholick religion , and withall was as yet so vnsatisfyed with the grounds of the english protestant religion , that at the present his conscience would not permitt him to goe either to masse or to common prayer . and therefore with his graces leaue he was resolued to spend a year or two in a solitude , and the study of greek and latin fathers , fully purposing to embrace that religion which appeared to him most consonant to what the fathers generally taught . the archbishop much commended his design , and dismissed him with his blessing , and a promise also that he should enioy entire liberty to prosecute so laudable a study . very busy in this study i found , and left him , in england . but it was presently after interrupted by that vnlucky book of daillé , which perswaded him to a light esteem of the holy fathers , vpon whose authority he would no longer rely . but yet this did not bring him into the church of england , so as to think himself obliged to belieue her doctrins , and whose authority he saw was much inferiour to the other : and from all subordinate , but diuided english sects , he had a horrible aversion and contempt . therefore without any long demurr he fixed his mind vpon socinian grounds , which he afterwards shewed in a litle book of one of them which was an answer to certaine theses posnanienses , which theses , as j remember , asserted the authority of the catholick church : in opposition whereto the socinian , reiecting all externall authority , layd these very grounds of his religion : that in all necessary doctrins the scripture was clear : therefore euery sober enquirer might with ease find them in it , without any help of a teacher or at least any obligation to believe him . vpon these grounds m. chillingworth dilated his discourses with much art and gracefullness of stile in his book against a learned catholick writer : and the same grounds so discoursed on , doctour stillingfleet has contracted methodically into his principles : and both these books though manifestly destroying all authority in the english , or any other church , haue been patiently and quietly suffred , yea commended by superiours here , to their infinit dammage , as is seene at this day : which dammage is j belieue more sensible to them since they see no considerable prejudice to catholicks by them , for j doe not remember to haue heard of any one established catholick shaken in his faith by such grounds : though i confess they obctructed a good while my entrance into the catholick church . . now it being certain that these princi ples came originally into england from the socinians ( a sect maintaining a fundamentall heresy ) it is of small edification and less glory to the english church ( in case , as the doctour pretends , his faith and hers are built on the same principles ) that she should consequently acknowledge herself forced to desert the grounds vpon which she proceeded since the reformation , as being grounds by m. chillingworths discovery found to be sandy and ruinous , and consequently acknowledge all her articles of belief , all her laws , constitutions , canons , &c. misgrounded . the consideration of this , besides disreputation , cannot but raise great scruples , in the minds of her disciples and subiects , till she not only disavow this her champion , but likewise assert her authority by answering all the discourses of m. chillingworth , my lord falkland , m. digges , m. whitby , doctour stillingfleet and severall other doctours and professours in the vniversities , who all exalt their single judgments above her authority . . and as for doctour stillingfleet there is another task to be undertaken by him , which i believe will give him excercise enough . for he knowing that the socinians , as well as himself , do make the plain evidence of scripture in all necessaries to all sober enquirers , a principle of their religion , and upon this principle building their heresy , his study must be to beat them from this principle , which can be done no other way , but either by confessing that the doctrin of christs divinity is not necessary to be believed , or by demonstrating to them that they do not understand the plainest texts of scripture , not having been sober enquirers into it . this will be a task becoming such an hectorean controvertist as the doctour is esteemed to be , considering how even among his freinds the socin●ans , among all protestant sects , are acknowledged to have been very laborious and far most exact in interpreting the most difficult books of scripture , and this not without good success , except where their iudgment has been perverted by a resolution to defend their peculiar hereticall doctrins . now by this time i believe the doctour sees what a world of work his principles have cut out for him , which he is obliged to justify not only against catholicks , who abhorr them , but socinians also who invented them as necessary for maintaining their heresy , & lastly against my lords the bishops his superiours , as i verily believe . his principles therefore being of so very main importance & being the only considerable subiect treated of in his book , my readers must not wonder that in so short a treatise i have so oft put him in mind of them , since a horrour of the consequences of them forced me to look on them as mihi saepe vocandum ad partes monstrum nullâ virtute redemptum a vitijs . §. . the conclusion : vvith advices to the doctour . . thus much i judged sufficient to make up an answer to those parts of the doctours book , which do not purposely treat of a doctrinall controversy : for no more was required from mee , indeed not quite so much : it being only the section of fanaticism in which j was particularly concerned . but the others intruded themselves , j know not well how : and by that means forced me also to neglect observing the order in which they lye in his book . which being no very great fault , j hope a pardon from the doctour will without much difficulty be obtained . . j shall also stand in need of another pardon for a fault , such as it is , willingly committed , and not yet repented of , because j beleive , except himself , none will esteem it a fault . it is this . observing in the doctours book a world of quotations out of authours which j never saw , nor intend to see , containing many dismall stories , and many ridiculous passages of things done or said by severall catholicks in former , and some latter , times : if j had had a mind to examine , and say something as in answer to them , an impossibility of finding out those authours must have been my excuse . but j have a better excuse then that . for if the doctour would have lent mee those books out of his library , i should have thanked him for his civility , but withall i should have refused to make use of his offer . for to what purpose would it have been to turn over a heap of books to find out quotations in which neither the church , nor myself were any way concerned ? not concerned , j say , though they had been opinions or actions even of popes themselves , being assured that at least , never any pope , how wicked soever , ha's brought any heresy into the church . it is to me all one whether all his allegations be true or false , as to any advantage he can make of them against the catholick church : unless the doctour will undertake to demonstrate , that it is unlawfull , or but considerably dangerous to be a member of a church where any persons doe , or have lived , who have been obnoxious to errours , or guilty of ill actions : . yet j must acknowledge that in one regard a book written in such a stile as the doctour's is , may have an influence on the whole church , and , against his intention , produce a good effect in it . for it may be hoped that catholicks of the present age will seriously consider the horrible consequences of seditious , licentious and otherwayes unwarrantable doctrins and practises of a few catholicks in former times , which have not only been pernicious to the authours themselves , but by the scandalousness of them have exposed the church her self , how innocent soever , to the detestation of such who are without : for sins , when scandalous are an vniversall and never ceasing plague : which moved our saviour to say , [ vae mundo a scandalis : ] woe to the whole world because of scandalls . . hoping therefore that by occasion of the doctours book such a benefit may accrew to his catholick readers , as to render them more watchfull over themselves to prevent hereafter the like scandals , j think my self obliged in requitall , seriously to advise him touching the dangerous state he is now in , as to his soule , in regard likewise of scandall . he would laugh at me if i should tell him that this danger proceeded from his not being a member of the catholick church . it is not that therefore that i now mean : though woe unto him , if in the day of iudgment he be found separated from our lords mysticall body . . not to hold him in suspence : j take leave to admonish him , that since the world sees that he manifestly professes himself a member of the english-protestant church established by law , his mind must either answer to his profession , or he must be a shamefull hyppocrit . now in case he be not an hypocrit , he is desired as a genuine english-protestant to cast his eyes on , and to examine severall of the first constitutions of his church : there he will find an excommunication denounced ipso facto against all such as shall ( in the manner there expressed ) openly oppose any thing contained in the nine and-thirty articles , in the books of common prayer and of ordinations of bishops and priests &c. which excommunication is there declared to remain in force , till the offender repent ( not of his boldness and disrespect , but ) of his wicked errour , which he ought to revoke . . after he has considered this , he may please to reflect on his book called irenicum ( not to mention his sermons during the late rebellion : ) and so comparing together the said constitutions ratifyed with an excommunication , and his own book , let him ask his conscience whether he has not incurred this excommunication , of the legality and validity whereof , he , being now supposed a declared protestant cannot , nor ought to doubt ( though j humbly conceive , j may . ) now his fault , in case he be guilty having been publick and notorious , and no repentance , no retractation appearing ( unless perhaps he thinks that the accepting a thousand pounds yearly in preferments is vertually a retractation ) and much less any solemn absolution having been given him ( unless perhaps also he thinks that the act of oblivion reaches to heaven , discharging the conscience , and dispensing in foro interno from an obligation of demanding absolution either from bishops , or from the civill magistrat , who , according to his teaching has received the power of the keyes , and can excommunicate and absolve as well as any bishop : ) matters , j say , standing thus , j must needs tell him that all prelaticall protestants can no otherwise look upon him , but as one ( j doe not say , traditum satanae , but ) excommunicated and separated from christs mysticall body . and therefore j coniure him that he would take care of his soule , which must needs be in great danger , even though in his heart he believes such excommunications to be bruta fulmina ; for in that case also he will conclude himself at least guilty of most damnable hypocrisy . . it will now be seasonable , with this act of charity , to him , to take my leave of him , and putt a period to this my answer , which truly i think sufficient , though perhaps he will impute my telling him so , to an ungrounded confidence or presumption . . i have onely one thing more to say to him , which is this , that i with reason enough may accuse him that in writing his book he has prevaricated with his superiours . for whereas in his preface he tells his readers that he was by command publickly engaged in the defence of so excellent a cause as that of the church of england against the church of rome , even of that church of england , which , vpon the greatest enquiry he could make , he esteems the best church of the christian world ; i desire no other iudges but the prelats of his own church whether by examining his principles j have not demonstrated how that contrary to command and his publick engagement , he has been so far from defending her , that he has betrayed the cause of his church to all the fanatick sects which have separated from her , and with most horrible cruelty sought her destruction , and with her the ruine of monarchy : whereby he has left her in a most forlorn condition , tottring upon foundations and principles , which to my certain knowledge were not extant at least not known in england thirty years since : in so much as if those who commanded him to defend her , will still avow him her champion , there will not be , nor ever was , a prelaticall church so miserably devested of all authority . and therefore let any indifferent reader judge between us two , whether with better success he has defended the cause of the church of england against the church of rome , or i , the cause of his own church against himself . . to conclude , nothing can be more irrationall then for the doctour , holding to his principles , to profess himself a controvertist , till he can demonstrate that he has the gift of seeing into mens hearts . for since he allowes all sober enq●irers to be for themselues iudges of the sence of scripture in necessaries , and iudges likewise what points are necessary , till he can disprove the allegations of any adversary , catholick , protestant or fanatick , by demonstrating that they have either not enquired at all , or enquired unsoberly , and that none besides himself enquires soberly , it will be most unreasonable in him to condemn , or but trouble any dissenters from him . . but alas , the misery is , none are more eager in usurping a magisteriall and tyrannicall power over other mens consciences , then such as renounce all authority internally obliging in the church : because having no tye upon mens consciences , or security in their subiects obedience , they find externall violence the only mean to support them . which surely argues a horrible depr●vation in the minds , especially of ecclesiasticks : which depravation can now only be cured by the wisedom and power of the civil magistrate . da pacem , domine , in diebus nostris . amen . finis . the contents . § . i. the authours motive of writing this treatise . d. stillingfleets three heads of accusation against the catholick church , &c. pag. i. § . ii. a vindication of the honour and sanctity of s. benedict , &c. from the doctours contumelious imputations . ii § . iii. of the life and prayer of contemplation derided by the doctour . § . iv. visions &c. no grounds of believing doctrines among catholicks . § . v. resisting authority falsely imputed to catholick religion . § . vi. fanaticism returned upon the doctour and his whole religion . § . vii . the doctrine of penance vindicated from the doctours mistakes . § . viii . of conferring absolution and extreme vnction in articulo mortis . § . ix . of prayer for the dead . § . x. of indulgences . § . xi . of the churches liturgy in a tongue not generally understood . § . xii . of the churches denying the reading of the bible indifferently to all . § . xiii . the conclusion : with advic●s to the doctour . errata . page . line . read inhuman . p. . l. . read about . ib. l. . read or obedience . p. . l. . read to the. p. . l. . r. upon . p. . l. . read their . p. . l. . r. preacher . p. . l. . r. sayes . p. . l. . & . r. severall . p. . l. . r. but be . p. . l. . r. rake out . p. . l. . r. helps for . p. . l. . read therefore . p. . l. penult . r. them . ib. l. ult . r. both . p. . l. . r. permit . p. . l. . r. herself . p. . l. . r. apostat . p. . l. penult . r. also . p. . l. . r. returned . ib. l. ult . r. fanaticks ib. r. farce . p. . l. . r. flesh . p. . l. . r. nutshell . p. . l. . r. demonstrate . p. . in the margent . r. . principle . p. . l. . r. points . ib. l. . in some of the copies , dele not . ib. l. . r. receives . p. . l. . r. soever p. . l. . r. government p. . l. . r. government . ib. l. . r. such an one . p. . l. . r. p. . l. . r. because . p. . l. . at the lines ●nd read the. p. . l. . r. catholicks . p. . l. ult . read vvho testifies p. . l. . read . by the exercise . p. . l. . r. their . p. . l. . r. eneruating . p. . l. . r. understood . p. . l. . r. service . ib. l. penult . r. desire that . p. . in the margent ●ead p. . a post-script to the doctor . if this short treatise shall after more then half a years strugling haue the fortune to break through all hazards , and arriue safe to the doctors hands , the authour of it will presume , in concluding it , to offer to him a few requests . the first is , that , unless he do indeed think himself obliged in conscience , by breaking all rules of piety and humanity , to do all manner of despight to his catholick fellow-subiects , he would , hereafter at least , please to abstain from reviling and blaspheming gods saints , or traducing the most divine exercises of contemplative soules , more perfectly practised only in heauen . jt argued certainly a heart brimm full of the gall of bitternes , that to oppose only one single line of his adversary ( pag. . ) in which all that he sayes is , the mentioning new sects and fanaticisms , he could allow one hundred and twenty pages in a senceless and execrable recrimination : not considering , or rather perhaps too much considering and intending that such a recrimination should reflect with great disparagement on the english protestant church , in whose calendar severall of those saints to this day possess a place . truly in all reason his attempt by his socinian principles of depriving the governours of that church of all anthority , granted by her princes and parliaments , ought to haue suffised him , without traducing her as a canonizer of fanaticks . what excuse he can make for this i cannot imagine , unless perhaps his tenderly scrupulous conscience dictates to him that the scottish covenant requires all this and more from the obligation whereof the bishops cannot it seems and his brethren presbiters will not absolue him . if so , his zeale methinks should incite him yet further , and particularly to make use of the power and high esteem he has by his late book gotten in his vniversity of cambridge , to become a godfather in rebaptizing and giving a new name to an ancient and famous colledge there , which at present has two names both of them extremely inconvenient and prejudiciall to the design of his beloued book being called not only s. benets , but likewise corpus christi-colledge : for as long as these names continue , neither will s. benedict pass there for a fanatick , nor the reall presence be esteemed aground of a worse then pagan idolatry . but i believe he will scarce be able , with all his rhetorick , to obtain from them such a compliance , or even perswade his own parishioners to renounce heaven , except s. gregory s. benedict , s. francis , &c. be excluded thence . a second request is , that since , to his great credit , order has been taken by his friends , more solicitous for him then their own church , to render his book unanswerable , he would hasten his zealous huguenot brethren of the savoy ( iust such defenders of the church of england as himself ) to enlarge his conquests through france also by sending abroad their french translation of his formidable book , the rationall account . there will be no need to fear any officious searchers , nor the least obstruction to their dispersing their ware in france , for there catholicks are so confidently secure of the invincible truth of their religion , that the king himself not only permits , but invites , yea and expressly commands the subtillest of the huguenot ministers to write and publish freely whatsoever they are able to say in defence of themselves , or against catholick doctrines . now it is manifest that the doctours friends , the zealous searchers and murderers of all answers to his book do not believe that he has any confidence at all either in the truth or honesty of his cause . and iust reason they have : since it is a cause evidently destructive both to the english church and state , as hath been demonstrated . and if themselves had any regard at all either to their church or the civill state and peace of the kingdom ( all betrayed by him ) they would see and acknowledge that their vigilance would have been much better employed in preventing the birth of so deformed and pernicious a monster . my third request is indeed , j fear , too reasonable to expect it should be granted by an adversary of the doctors temper . it is this . his design beeing to deterr all english-men from communion with the catholick church from a consideration of dangerous doctrines and practises in it , he is requested , that hereafter he would not abuse the world by fathering on the church exotick opinions of particular schoolmen , and by representing the churches doctrines lamely , falsely and dishonestly . his enormous faultiness in this regard ( in mitation of doctor taylor ) committed in his last book through every one of the points mentioned by him , may be visible to all heedfull readers , and irrefragable proofes here●fare in a readiness to be produced , if his busy friends the searchers could be perswaded to rest in their beds in the night time . he cannot complain of any difficulty to find out all necessary doctrines in which catholicks universally agree ( as we may for proteflant doctrines . ) the councill of trent alone will sufficiently furnish him . or if he think fitt to have recourse to the interpretations of its decisions , in all reason and conscience he ought to content himself with such as seem to him most moderate and rationall ; christian charity and love of peace requiring this from him . but i fear his unconformity hereto must be pardoned . for his principall vocation now being to be a controvertist , to which , it seems , he is by superiours engaged , and to which employment preaching , sacraments , and all must yield : it will be impossible for him to write volumes of controversy his way , if he be confined to matters only which are pertinent , or to arguments which are logically concluding . for how could he then delight profanc readers with ridiculous stories , or give scope to his own more profane fancy in descanting irreligiously on the actions of saints , or fill up many sheets with nasty occurrents raked out of dunghills , and charging them on the church , which abhorrs them more then himself . how could he , i say , thus play the controvertist , if he were to assault the church only in her necessary doctrines and discipline , exhibited in her councills ? i must therefore , i fear , prepare my self with patience to receive a refusall to requests , though in my opinion very reasonable , and which i here sett down , because j believe they will be esteemed such by ingenuous and judicious readers , who surely will not judge the cause of catholicks prejudiced by the doctors confutation of a church no where extant in rerum naturâ , except in his own disordered fancy . lastly , he is desired to consider that almighty god commands us to loue peace and truth ( zach. . . ) both these : for peace alone , without truth , is a conspiracy in errour : and an imprudent zeale for truth may be more pernicious then errour . both these therefore ought to be loved together . and to hate both peace and truth seems a depravation scarce consistent with human nature , or any rationall agent besides the devill himself . since therefore the doctor by demolishing all tribunalls in gods church which might peaceably end controversies , has endeavoured , as much as in him lyes , to banish peace eternally from among christians : it is iustly to be expected from him , that , being now become by profession a controvertist , he should give some better testimony to the world , that he is at least a seeker and promoter of truth , and that his design in writing , preaching , and disputing is to conquer the iudgments of dissenters to a belief of that which himself pretends to be truth . but can any reasonable man imagine that he had so much as a desire to convert catholicks ( who alone seem to be esteemed by him dissenters ) by such a book as his last is , which they cannot read without trembling at the blasphemies of it , and without a horrible aversion from one who would make their church and faith odious for doctrines and practises which the said church is so far from owning that she condemns them ; and would moreover persuade them to forsake an established communion , without being informed whither to betake themselves ? these proceedings are so unreasonnable , that it seems manifest he had not so much as a thought of convincing their iudgments : so that he will have small reason to wonder that not one single person can be found , whom he looks on as an enemy , who has given him occasion to erect a trophey : yea moreover , though perhaps he will not believe it , that a considerable number have , against his will , had their eyes opened by him , to see the desperate state of that cause , which seems to seek its last refuge in the protection of such an advocat . a strange fate certainly this is of a book so boasted of , and to which such conquests have been promised . therefore any sober reader who shall heedfully reflect on the doctor 's abilities , will hardly be perswaded to believe that he intended his last should be a book of controversy , but rather an engin raised by him , to work , during the space of a few months , some considerable mischief against the persons of innocent catholicks , at a season , as he thought , proper for his purpose , when he conceived thereby the whole kingdom might happily be incensed against them : which holy design if he could effect , it would afterward be indifferent to him whether his book were confuted , or not . however , our hope is , that dominus iudicabit pauperes populi , & bumiliabit calumniatorem . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e nullos esse deos , in ane coelum affirmat selius , probatque , quod se factum , dū negat haec , videt beatū . martial l. . epigr . . pag. . psal. . mem. . cor. . v. . . . p. . p. p. . p. . p. . suar. in . s th q . an●on . summ. p. . tit . . c. baron ▪ ad a. d. . p. . p. . irenic . p. . p. . p. . p. . . principle , principle . i. que. ansvv. ii. qu. ansvv. iii qu. ansvv. iv. qu. ansvv. v. qu. ansvv. irenic . eph. iv . . vers . . gesner in re bellar. def. schlussc●b . p. . ration accou . p . aug. de bapt. cont . donat. l. . c. . p. . conc. triden . sess. xiv cap. . p. . p. . p. z conc. t●id . ses. xiv c. . august lib. hom . hom. . conc. t●id . se● . vii de sacram . can. . p. . gal. . p. . aug. hom. . capvlt . p. . luk xvi . . lib. de curâ p●● mo●tuis cap. . p. . conc. t●id . ses. xxv dec●et de indulg . ibid. p. . p. . p. . cor. . cor. . vers. . . . . p. ● . p. . philast preface pag. . ibid. p. . a sermon preached on the fast-day, november , , at st. margarets westminster, before the honourable house of commons by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached on the fast-day, november , , at st. margarets westminster, before the honourable house of commons by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed by margaret white for henry mortlock ..., london : . running title: a fast-sermon preached nov. , before the house of commons. reproduction of original in duke university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- o.t. -- samuel, st, xii, - -- sermons. fast-day sermons. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion jovis . die novembris , . ordered , that the thanks of this house be returned to dr. stillingfleet , dean of st. pauls , for his sermon yesterday preached before this house at st. margarets westminster : and that he be desired to print his sermon . and coll. titus is desired to give him the thanks of the house , and to acquaint him with the desire of this house to print his sermon . will goldesbrough , cler. dom. com. a sermon preached on the fast-day november . . at s t margarets westminster before the honourable house of commons by edward stillingfleet , d. d. dean● st. paul's , and chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london , printed by margaret white , for henry mortlock at the ph●●● st. paul's church-yard , and at the white hart in westminster hall. . sam . , . only fear the lord , and serve him in truth with all your heart : for consider how great things he hath done for you . but if ye shall still do wickedly , ye shall be consumed both ye and your king. it hath been well observed by some , that those who look at a distance upon humane asfairs are apt to think that the good or bad success of them depends wholly upon the wisdom and conduct of those who manage them ; others who look nearer into them and discern the many intervening and unforeseen accidents which often alter and disappoint the counsels of men , are ready to attribute the events of things rather to chance than wisdom : but those who have made the deepest search and the strictest enquiry , have most firmly believed a divine providence which over-rules all the counsels and affairs of men ; and sometimes blasts the most probable designs , sometimes prospers the most unlikely attempts , to let us see that though there be many devices in mens hearts , yet the counsel of the lord that sh●●l stand . we live in an age not over prone to admire and take notice of any remarkable instances of divine providence either in our preservation from dangers or deliverances out of them ; for so great is the security of some men that they are unwilling to apprehend any danger till they fall into it , and if they escape will hardly believe they were ever in it ; and such is the concernment of others to baffle all evidences of truth wherein their own guilt is involved , that they all agree in robbing god of the honour of his mercy , and our selves of the comfort of his protection . but blessed be that god who hath hitherto defeated all the secret , and subtile , and cruel designs of his and our churches enemies ; and hath given us the liberty and opportunity of this day to meet together to implore the continuance of his favour and mercy towards us in the preservation of his majesties person ; for in praying for him we pray for our selves , since our own welfare doth so much depend upon his. when we look back upon the history of this church ever since the reformation of it , we may observe such a wonderful series of divine providence going along with it , that we have the less reason to be discouraged with present difficulties or disheartned with the fears of future dangers . what struglings did it meet with in the birth ? and although it were therein like jacob who took hold of the heel of his brother and at last obtained the blessing ; yet the romish party got the start like esau , and came forth all red and hairy , full of blood and cruelty ; and the old dragon cast out of his mouth a flood of fire to destroy our church before it could attain to its full growth and maturity . but after it not only survived these flames , but enjoyed a firm establishment under the care and conduct of a wise and cautious government , what restless endeavours , what secret plots , what horrid conspiracies , what foreign attempts , what domestick treasons were carried on during the reign of queen elizabeth ? and yet , which is very considerable , while she openly and heartily owned the protestant cause , it pleased god to deliver her out of all her dangers , and to give her a long and a prosperous reign , when two of her neighbour princes were assasinated for not being zealous enough in the popish cause though they professed to own and maintain it . and it is but a very little time since you met together in this place to celebrate the memory of a mighty deliverance which both king and kingdom , and together with them our church received from that never to be forgotten conspiracy of the gunpowder treason in her successors reign . may we not then take up st. pauls argument , and say , who hath delivered us from so great death , and doth deliver , in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us ? especially if we do not fail in the performance of that duty which god expects from us in order to our own preservation , which is delivered by samuel to the people of israel , in the words of the text , only fear the lord and serve him in truth with all your heart , for consider how great things he hath done for you . but if they would not hearken to this wise counsel , but go on in their sins , he tells them what the fatal consequence would be , not to themselves only , but to their king too , but if ye shall still do wickedly , ye shall be destroyed both ye and your king. which advice will appear to deserve our serious consideration this day , if we either regard ( . ) the person who gave it . ( . ) the occasion of giving it . ( . ) the matter contained in it . . the person who gave this counsel to the people , samuel ; a person of great wisdom , and long experience in government ; and therefore very able to judge concerning the proper causes of a nations prosperity and ruine . the people had enjoyed a long and uninterrupted tranquillity while they followed his directions . they had before been miserably harassed by the inroads of the philistins , discomfited in several battels , and at last the ark of god it self taken by their enemies and their leaders destroyed , at which sad news eli who had judged israel forty years fell backwards and so ended his dayes : while they were under the sense of their present miseries , samuel puts them into the most hopeful way for their deliverance , which was by a reformation of religion among them , by returning to the lord with all their hearts , and putting away their strange gods , and preparing their hearts unto the lord and serving him only ; and then , saith he , he will deliver you out of the hands of the philistins . the miseries they felt and the dangers they feared made them own the true religion with more than usual courage : then the children of israel did put away baalim and astaroth , and served the lord only . but besides this , samuel appoints a publick and solemn fast of all israel at mizpeh ; and samuel said , gather all israel to mizpeh , and i will pray for you unto the lord. and they gathered together to mizpeh and drew water and poured it out before the lord , and fasted on that day , and said there we have sinned against the lord. mizpeh , a city in the confines of judah and benjamin , as masius and others observe , was the place where the states of israel were wont to be assembled together upon any great and important occasion ; where there was a place on purpose for them to meet in , and an altar , and house of prayer for the publick worship of god : and therefore it is said , judg. . . the children of israel gathered together from one end of the land to the other , unto the lord in mizpeh ; and there the chief of all the tribes of israel presented themselves in the assembly of the people of god. and therefore samuel chooseth this as the fittest place for them to fast and pray , and confess their sins in , and to implore the mercy of god to the nation . we do not read in scripture of any more publick and solemn fast of the people of israel kept with greater signs of true humiliation than this at mizpeh was ; for the pouring out of water was used among them either to represent their own desperate condition without gods help , that they were as water spilt upon the ground ; or the greatness of their sorrow for their sins , and the floods of tears , which they shed for them . and to let mankind see what influence a general and serious fasting and humiliation hath upon the welfare of a nation , we find from the day of this fast at mizpeh the affairs of israel began to turn for the better . for the philistines thought they had an advantage against the israelites by this general meeting , and hoped to surprize them while they kept their fast in mizpeh ; and made such an incursion upon them , as put them into a great consternation ; and they came trembling to samuel , praying him that he would not cease to cry unto the lord their god for them , that he would save them out of the hand of the philistins . samuel prays , the lord hears , israel marches out of mizpeh , pursues the philistins and smites them ; and samuel sets up a stone of remembrance , and calls it eben-ezer , saying hitherto hath the lord helped us . yea from hence forward did god help them , for it follows , so the philistines were subdued , and they came no more into the coast of israel ; and the hand of the lord was against the philistins all the dayes of samuel . never any people had greater reason to be pleased with a governour than they had with samuel ; who managed their affairs with so much wisdom and piety , with so much faithfulness and integrity , with so much courage and constancy , with so much care and industry , with so much success and prosperity . but people are apt to surfeit upon too much ease and plenty , and to grow wanton with abundance of peace ; they began to be weary of samuels government , and secretly to wish for a change . and when mens discontents grow ripe , there seldom wants a plausible occasion to vent them : samuel was grown old and could not go about from year to year in circuit to bethel , and gilgal , and mizpeh , as he was wont to do , but he fixed at his house in ramah , and placed his sons in beersheba ; these not following their fathers steps , were soon . accused of male-administration ; and nothing would now satisfie the discontented elders of israel , but samuel himself must be discharged of his government ; for they gathered themselves together and came to samuel in ramah ; and said to him , behold thou art old , and thy sons walk not in thy wayes ; this was their pretence , but their design was to alter the government . their plenty and prosperity had made them fond of the pomp and grandeur of their neighbour nations , and whatever it cost them , they were resolved to have a king to judge them like all the nations . samuel tells them , what inconveniencies that more absolute form of government of the neighbour nations would bring among them , as josephus shews ; all which signified nothing to them ; for it is said , nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of samuel and said , nay , but we will have a king over us , that we also may be like all the nations . it was not the monarchical way of government that was so displeasing to god or samuel ; for their government was of that form already , god himself being their king , and appointing such vicegerents as he thought fit to manage their affairs under him . so god answered samuel , they have not rejected thee , but they have rejected me , that i should not reign over them . not , as though kingly government were inconsistent with gods sovereignty over his people ; for by him kings reign ; and they are his ministers to us for good , and that government is the most agreeable to his own ; and to the primitive institution of government among men . but wherein then lay this great sin of the israelites in asking a king , when god himself had provided by his law that they should have a king when they were setled in their own land ? and yet we find the israelites at last confess , we have added unto all our sins this evil to ask us a king. their great fault was , that they were so impetuous and violent in their desires , that they would not wait for samuels decease whom god had raised up among them , and whose government had been so great a blessing to them ; and therefore god looked on it as a rejecting him more than samuel , since he had appointed him ; and they had no reason to lay him aside for his sons faults , but they made use of that only as a colour for their own self-willed humour and affectation of being like to other nations . however god commands samuel to yield to them ; and he appoints another meeting at mizpeh for this purpose ; where the person was chosen by lot ; and at his solemn inauguration at gilgal , samuel makes that speech unto all israel contained in this th chapter ; where of the words of the text are the conclusion ; which make these words the more considerable , . in regard of the occasion of them ; being delivered by samuel at so great a solemnity in which he delivers up the government into the hands of their king , ( . ) with a great protestation of his own integrity , with an appeal to their own consciences concerning it , and they freely give a large testimony of it . ( ) he upbraids them with their ingratitude towards god time after time ; that they were never contented or pleased with his laws or the governours he raised up amongst them ; and now at last upon a sudden fright concerning nahash the king of ammon , they were resolved they would have a king ; and behold , saith he , the lord hath set a king over you . ( . ) notwithstanding their sin in so unseasonable a demand , yet he tells them they might be happy under his government if they did sincerely keep to their established religion and obey the laws of god. this he delivers , ( . ) more generally , vers . , . if ye will fear the lord and serve him , and obey his voice , and not rebel against the commandment of the lord , then shall both ye and also the king that reigneth over you , continue following the lord your god ; i. e. god will protect and defend you . but if you will not obey the voyce of the lord , but rebel against the commandment of the lord , then shall the hand of the lord be against you , as it was against your fathers . but this being a matter of the greatest consequence to them , whereon the welfare of the nation did depend , he delivers it ( . ) more emphatically ; after the thunder and rain had affrightned and softned their hearts ; and they came praying to samuel and confessing their sin to him ; then he counsels them not to fear , if they did not forsake god ; and for his part , however they had disobliged him , he would not only continue to pray for them , but give them the best advice and directions he could : but i will teach you the good and the right way . and then these words immediately follow , only fear the lord and serve him in truth with all your heart , &c. . these words are most considerable for the matter contained in them ; which lies in these three particulars , ( . ) the influence which continuance in sin hath upon a kingdoms ruine : but if ye shall still do wickedly , ye shall be consumed , both ye and your king. ( . ) the best means for the welfare and preservation of it , viz maintaining and practising the true religion ; only fear the lord and serve him in truth with all your heart . ( . ) the great argument and encouragement here given for the doing it ; for consider how great things he hath done for you . the first of these will be the main subject of my present discourse , viz. the influence which continuance in sin hath upon a kingdoms ruine , if we believe moses and the prophets , we cannot question the truth of this concerning the people of israel ; for this is the main scope and design of their doctrine . moses assured them , that all the strength , and force , and combination of their enemies should do them no prejudice as long as they obeyed the laws of god ; but if they would not do his commandments , but despise his statutes and abhor his judgements , all the care and policy they could use would not be able to keep off the most dismal judgements which ever befel a nation , i will even appoint over you terror , consumption and the burning ague ; that shall consume the eyes and cause sorrow of heart ; and ye shall sow your seed in vain , for your enemies shall eat it . and i will set my face against you , and you shall be slain before your enemies : they that hate you shall reign over you , and ye shall flee when none pursueth you . and if you will not for all this hearken unto me , then will i punish you seven times more for your sins , so he proceeds to the end of the chapter , still rising higher and higher according to the greatness of their provocations . and to the same purpose he speaks throughout deut. . promising great blessings to their nation upon obedience , and horrible curses , such as would make ones ears tingle to hear them , upon their refractoriness and disobedience , the lord shall send thee cursing , vexation and rebuke , in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do ; until thou be destroyed , and untill thou perish quickly , because of the wickedness of thy doings , whereby thou hast forsaken me . to the same purpose all the prophets speak , only applying this general doctrine to the circumstances of their own times . if ye be willing and obedient , saith isaiah , ye shall eat the good of the land ; but if ye refuse and rebel , ye shall be destroyed with the sword , the mouth of the lord hath spoken it . when the prophet jeremiah saw dreadful calamities coming upon his people , he cries out , thy way and thy doings have procured these things unto thee , this is thy wickedness because it is bitter , because it reacheth unto thine heart . ezekiel tells them there was no hope to escape being destroyed , but by speedy and sincere repentance , repent and turn your selves from all your transgressions , so iniquity shall not be your ruine . but here a material question may be asked , whether this connexion between their doing wickedly and being consumed were not by vertue of that political covenant between god and the people of israel which was peculiar to themselves ? and how far it may be just and reasonable to argue concerning the case of other nations , with whom god hath entred into no such covenant , as he did with them ? to make this clear , and to bring it nearer to our own case , i shall proceed in this method . . to shew , that god doth exercise a particular providence with respect to the state and condition of kingdoms and nations . . that according to the usual method of providence their condition is better or worse as the people are . . that there are some circumstances of sinning , which do very much portend and hasten a peoples ruine . . that god doth exercise a particular providence with a respect to the state and condition of nations , i. e. as they are united into several and distinct bodies , which are capable as such of being happy or miserable . for since mankinds entring into society is both necessary and advantageous to them ; and god doth not barely permit and approve , but dispose and incline men to it ; and hath given them laws to govern themselves by , with respect to society ; it is but reasonable to suppose that god should call men to an account in that capacity ; and to distribute rewards and punishments according to the nature of their actions : which must either be done in this world , or it cannot be done at all ; for all those bonds are dissolved by death , and men shall not answer for their sins by kingdoms and nations in another world , but every man shall give account of himself unto god. either therefore those societies as such shall go wholly unpunished , or they must suffer according to them in this world ; and therefore here the case is very different from that of particular persons . we say , and with a great deal of reason , that it is no disparagement to the justice of gods providence for good men to suffer , or for wicked men to escape punishment in this life , because the great day of recompence is to come , wherein there will be a revelation of the righteous judgement of god : but that will not hold as to nations , who shall not suffer in communities then as they have sinned here : and therefore it is more reasonable to suppose the rewards and punishments of such shall be in this life according to the measure and proportion of their sins . and of this we have suffient evidence in scripture , upon these accounts . ( . ) because it charges guilt upon nations as well as upon particular persons . as in the case of uncertain murder , if one be found slain in the land , which the lord thy god giveth thee to possess it , lying in the field , and it be not known who hath slain him : the elders of the next city were not only to protest their own innocency ; but to use this prayer , be merciful o lord , unto thy people israel , whom thou hast redeemed , and lay not innocent blood unto thy people of israels charge . and the blood shall be forgiven them , so shalt thou put away the guilt of innocent blood from among you . here we see the guilt of innocent blood goes farther than the bare shedders of it , it lyes upon the nation till it be expiated ; and the jews say , the soul of a person innocently murdered hovers up and down the earth crying for vengeance , till the guilty persons be found out and punished , and then it ascends above to its place of rest . the guilt of innocent blood is indeed a crying sin ; it cryes loud unto heaven for vengeance , and nothing stops its voice but the execution of it . and where that is not done , it leaves a guilt upon the land ; for god himself hath said it , blood defileth the land ; and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein , but by the blood of him that shed it . this sin we see , is of such a malignant nature that it infects the land where it is committed , and lyes upon it till it be expiated . but there are other sins which contract a national guilt , when the authority of a nation , either gives too much countenance and encouragement to the practice of them , or does not take that care it ought to do to suppress and punish them . when men daily and insolently break the laws of god , and bid as it were defiance both to them and to the laws of men ; when wickedness spreads like a leprosie , and infects the whole body ; when vices become so notorious that they are a reproach and a by-word to neighbour nations ; these are the signs and tokens of national guilt . ( . ) because the scripture tells us of a certain measure to which the sins of a nation do rise before they are ripe for punishment . this was the reason given why abrahams children must stay to the fourth generation before they come to the possession of the promised land , for the iniquity of the amorites is not yet full . where it is plain that god doth consider nations as distinct bodies , the measure of whose sins is taken after another manner than that of particular persons ; but when once that measure is compleated , ruine and destruction is unavoidable ; or at least , some signal and extraordinary judgements falling upon them as the punishment of their iniquities . men may ask why the canaanites in joshua's time were dealt with so severely , that nothing but utter extirpation would satisfie the justice of god against them ? but god prevents that objection , by letting abraham know how much patience and long-suffering he used towards them ; waiting till the fourth generation ; and when their iniquities still increased , and every age added to the guilt of the foregoing , the burden grew too heavy for them to bear it any longer , and therefore they must sink under the weight of it . so our saviour saith to the jews in his time , fill ye up then the measure of your fathers . not as though god did punish any age beyond the desert of its own sins ; but when the measure of their sins is filled up , god doth no longer forbear to punish them ; and that seldom happens , but when the sins of that time do exceed those of the foregoing generations ; as it was in the case of the jews when their city and temple were destroyed . ( . ) because it attributes the great revolutions of government to a particular providence of god , god is the judge , or the supreme arbitratour of the affairs of the world , he pulleth down one and setteth up another . which holds with respect to nations as well as particular persons . which doth not found any right of dominion , ( as some fancied till the argument from providence was returned with greater force upon themselves ) but it shews that when god pleases to makes use of persons or nations as the scourges in his hand to punish a people with , he gives them success above their hopes or expectations , but that success gives them no right . and of this the psalmist speaks when he adds , for in the hand of the lord there is a cup and the wine is red ; it is full of mixture , and he poureth out of the same ; but the dregs thereof all the wicked of the earth shall wring them out and drink them . it is called by isaiah , the cup of fury , and the cup of trembling , which god gives to nations destined to ruine : which makes them like people intoxicated and deprived of that apprehension of danger , of that judgement and consideration to prevent it , which at other times they have . when a nation is near some dreadful calamity , as a just punishment of its sins , god takes away the wisdom of the wise , and the understanding of the prudent , and the resolution of the men of courage , that they all stand amazed and confounded , not knowing how to give or take advice ; but they are full of fears , and rather apt to quarrel with one another than to consult the general good . this was just the state of egypt when god did purpose to execute his justice upon it . ( . ) first , their courage failed them , and the heart of egypt shall melt in the midst of it ; and the spirit of egypt shall fail in the midst thereof . in that day shall egypt be like unto women ; and it shall be afraid and fear , because of the shaking of the hand of the lord of hosts , which he shaketh over it . it is a very ill sign when men want the spirit and vigour they were wont to have ; when they are daunted at the apprehension of every danger , and rather meanly seek to save themselves by base arts and sordid compliances , than to promote the common welfare . it is folly and stupidity not to apprehend danger when there is cause for it , and to take the best care to prevent it ; but it is a fatal symptom upon a nation when their hearts fail them for fear , that they dare not do the duty which they owe to god , to their king , and to their countrey . god forbid that any should exceed the bounds of their duty to prevent their fears , but when men want resolution to do that , they are in a lost condition . ( ) their counsels were divided and infatuated : and i will set the egyptians against the egyptians . the princes of zoan are fools , the counsel of the wise counsellors of pharaoh is become bruitish ; they have also seduced egypt , even they that are the stay of the tribes thereof . the lord hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof , and they have caused egypt to err in every work thereof , as a reeling man staggereth in his vomit , i. e. they know not what to fix upon , all their counsels being so uncertain , and the best taking no effect . but after all their consultations , they advance not one step forward , but fall back just to the same case they were in before ; every one blaming another for want of success in their designs . this is the deplorable state of a people when ruine and desolation is near them . but on the other side , when god raises up a nation to be a scourge to other nations , he inspires them with a new spirit and courage , unites their counsels , removes their difficulties or carries them easily through them , and by a concurrence of some happy circumstances gives them strange success beyond all their hopes and expectations . look over all the mighty revolutions which have hapned in the kingdoms and empires of the world , and the more ye search and consider and compare things together , the greater truth you will find in this observation . when god designed to punish the eastern nations for their transgressions , then the babylonian monarchy rose so fast and spread so far , that nothing was able to stand before it . the combinations of the kings of judah , and edom , and moab , and syre , and sidon , and egypt were but like the withes which the philistins bound sampson with , which he brake in sunder as a thred of tow is broken when it toucheth the fire . judah drinks first of the cup , and she trembles and falls , and is carried into captivity ; then follow , as god had foretold by his prophets , the desolations of tyre , of egypt , of put and lud , i. e. of libya and aethiopia ; and at last the cup passes round , and ninivehs turn comes to drink deep of this cup of fury , and she was laid waste for returning to her sins after repentance . and when the sins of babylon called for vengeance , god raised up cyrus , and called him by his name , long before he was born , and brought the fierce nations of the east to submit themselves to him : and when babylon was most secure , full of wine and jollity at an anniversary feast , he led cyrus into the city by a way they dreamed not of , and all the plagues which the prophets had foretold , came upon that people when they least expected them . it was not the courage and spirit of alexander with his macedonian army could have made such sudden and easie conquests of the east ; if god by his providence had not strangely made way for his success by infatuating the counsels of darius , so as to give him those advantages against himself he could never have hoped for . there is no such mighty difference in the wits and contrivances of men ; no such great advantages in military power and conduct ; no such wonderful disproportion in the courage , or wisdom , or educations of men ; but when god hath pleased to let loose the most rude , and barbarous , and unexperienced nations in matters of war , upon the most flourishing kingdoms , the most disciplin'd armies , the most fortified cities , they have in spite of all opposition over-run , overcome , and overthrown them . who could have thought that the cowardly goths ( as they were then esteemed ) the barbarous vandals , and the despicable hunns , could have made such havock and devastations in the roman empire , that in fifty years time , more of it was lost and destroyed by their means , than had been gained in a thousand ? it would make ones heart bleed to read the miseries which all the parts of the roman empire suffered , where these barbarians prevailed ; and yet they were despised and reproached by the grave and wise romans at the same time when they were conquered and destroyed by them ; as salvian who lived then , at large relates . but the best and wisest men could not but see an extraordinary hand of god going along with them ; and one of their greatest generals found himself carryed on by such a mighty impulse , and met with such an unaccountable success in all his undertakings , that he called himself flagellum dei , the scourge in gods hand to chastise the wickedness and follies of men that called themselves christians , and did not live like such . machiavel himself takes notice of so strange a difference in the conduct and success of the romans at different times , that he saith , they could hardly be imagined to be the same people ; and after all his attempts to find out other causes , he at last is forced to conclude that there is a superiour cause to the counsels of men which governs the affairs of mankind , which he calls fate , and we much better , the providence of god. some learned physicians are of opinion that when diseases are not curable by common remedies , there is in them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , something divine , and therefore in such cases divine remedies are the most proper and effectual : thus in the alterations of states and kingdoms , there is often a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a more than ordinary hand of god , in which cases the best means we can use to prevent danger is by fasting and prayer , by true repentance and speedy reformation of our evil wayes . ( . ) because the scripture still leaves hopes of mercy to a people where they have a heart to repent . i do not find by any declaration of gods will in scripture , that he hath made any such peremptory decree concerning the ruine of a nation , but upon their repentance there is a way left to escape it ; but rather the contrary in those words of jeremiah , at what instant i shall speak concerning a nation , and concerning a kingdom , to pluck up and to pull down and to destroy it : if that nation against whom i have pronounced , turn from their evil , i will repent of the evil which i thought to do unto them . and therefore all threatnings of that kind are conditional as this in the text is , but if ye shall still do wickedly : which implyes that if they did cease to do so , they might be preserved , both they and their king. and where repentance hath intervened between the threatning and execution of judgement , god hath shewed wonderful kindness either in stopping , removing , or deferring the severity of judgements . . in stopping his hand when it hath been lifted up , and just ready to strike . we can desire no clearer instance in that case than that of niniveh ; a vast city ( or rather a countrey inclosed in walls ) full of all the delights of asia , and of the sins which usually attend them ; to this city god sends a prophet to let them know how near they were to destruction , that they had but forty dayes time to turn themselves in . this was a strange and unexpected alarm to them , given by a strange prophet after a peremptory manner to a people unacquainted with such messages . how many objections would the infidels and scepticks of our age have made against such a message as this ? they would rather have concluded the prophet mad , than have been perswaded to repent by him . yet so great was the apprehension they had of the just desert of their sins , that the people of nineveh believed god and proclaimed a fast , and put on sackcloth , from the greatest of them even to the least : and they cryed mightily to god , and turned from their evil wayes : and what then ? would god disparage the reputation of his prophet , and alter the sentence he had sent him so far to denounce against them ? what hopes had he given them of mercy if they repented ? it appears they had nothing but general presumptions , who can tell , if god will turn and repent , and turn away from his fierce anger that we perish not ? yet sincere repentance being performed upon no greater assurance than this , prevailed so with god , that he repented of the evil that he said he would do unto them , and he did it not . o the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and goodness of god! his wisdom in leading them to repentance ; his goodness in for bearing to punish after so great provocations . what encouragement doth god hereby give to others to repent , when niniveh was rescued from the very brink of destruction by it ? . in removing his hand when it hath struck . when davids vanity transported him so far , that without any necessity he would know the number of his people ; his heart did misgive him as soon as he had done it , and he confessed he had sinned greatly in it ; notwithstanding this god sends a plague among the people , which touched david to the quick , as a tender father is most sensibly punished in the loss of his children ; and then he cryed , lo i have sinned , and i have done wickedly ; but these sheep what have they done ? and when the angel had stretched out his hand upon jerusalem to destroy it , the lord repented him of the evil , and said to the angel it is enough , stay now thy hand . behold therefore the goodness and severity of god ; on them which fell severity ; but towards jerusalem goodness . his severity was intended to make people avoid a vain confidence in their own strength and numbers ; his goodness to let them see how ready he is to draw back his hand when men truly repent . . in putting by the stroke for the present , or deferring the execution of his wrath . no king of israel provoked god more than ahab ; for it is said of him , that he did evil in the sight of the lord above all that were before him ; and that he sold himself to work wickedness in the sight of the lord. at last the prophet elijah meets him in naboths vineyard which he had just taken possession of by fraud and violence ; when ahab saw such an unwelcome guest in that place , his guilt made him ready to start back , and to say , hast thou found me , o mine enemy ? the prophet having this fair opportunity followed the blow he had given him so home , that ahab was not able to stand before him : for it is said , that when ahab heard the terrible judgements god denounced against him for his sins , he rent his clothes , and put sackcloth upon his flesh and fasted , and in good earnest humbled himself before god ; for so god himself owns that he did . i do not say he continued good after this ; but he now heartily repented for the time ; and for the time of repentance god inlarged his time of forbearance . because he humbleth himself before me , i will not bring the evil in his days . even a short repentance , when sincere , gains time , by a reprieve from punishment . when the sins of a nation are grown to a great height , and become ripe for vengeance , the best princes can obtain no more than not seeing the evil in their own days , as in the case of josiah who was an excellent prince , and a true lover of god and his law , yet the people continued so hardned in their sins , though under some shew of reformation ; that the prophetess told him ; behold i will bring evil upon this place , and upon the inhabitants thereof , &c. but because his heart was tender , and he humbled himself before the lord , he obtained that favour , that his eyes should not see the evil which he would bring upon them . if the people had been as good as josiah was , there is no question , but even then god would have repented of the evil ; but where there was such an obstinate impenitency , that neither gods laws , nor the prophets threatnings , nor the princes example could prevail upon them ; all that his humiliation could obtain , was only a putting it off for his own time ; and we have reason to think that their sins did hasten his end too ; as sometimes the sins of a people make the best of princes to be taken away from them : and when the ten tribes were carried captive , their king hoshea is said , not to have done evil as the kings of israel that were before him . and to judah after josias his death , god punctually made good this threatning in the text , but if ye shall still do wickedly , ye shall be consumed both ye and your king. ii. the second particular is , that according to the usual method of providence the state or condition of a people is better or worse according to the general nature of their actions . if they be good and vertuous , careful to please god , just , sober , chast , merciful , diligent observers of gods laws , and their own , and dealing with other nations according to the laws of nations , they will live in a much more flourishing and happy condition ; than a nation can do where atheism , profaneness , and all sorts of wickedness abound : which i shall prove two ways , ( . ) absolutely , from the tendency of religion and vertue to promote the honour , the peace , the courage and safety of a people . ( . ) comparatively , that nations are more or less happy according to their vertues and vices . ( . ) absolutely , and that will appear , ( . ) from the tendency of true goodness and piety to promote a nations honour and interest abroad . and no man is ignorant how much reputation brings of real advantage to a nation ; and that a people despised are next to a people enslaved ; and that it is impossible to hold up honour and esteem in the world , where the reputation of vertue is lost . ( . ) from its tendency to maintain peace and tranquillity at home ; preventing private quarrels , by justice , and honesty , and temperance , and chastity ; and publick disturbances by avoiding idleness , and debauchery , and bad principles , which are the great nurseries of rebellion ; and teaching men quietness , patience , due government of themselves , and obedience not only for wrath , but also for conscience sake . whereas loose principles , and bad practises , and extravagant desires naturally dispose men to endeavour changes and alterations , in hopes of bettering themselves by them ; and the prevalency of vice doth unhinge government , and weaken the strength and sinews of it . ( . ) from the keeping up the spirits , and securing the safety of men . a good conscience makes a man dare to do his duty ; but the sinners in zion are afraid , fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites . these were men , saith grotius , who carried a fair shew for the present , but were inwardly prepared , if the king of babylon got the better , to be of his religion , whatever it was . such men who are false to god , and really of no religion at all , are full of thoughts and fears , not knowing what may happen ; they dare not own what they would be , for fear it ruine them at present ; and they dare not appear too much for what they seem to own , for fear of what may come hereafter . if the lord be god , saith elijah , then follow him ; but if baal , then follow him : no , say such men , if they durst speak their thoughts , we desire to be excused at present , we find there is a contest between them , and we do not yet know which will get the better , when we see that , you shall know our minds . as asinius pollio told augustus in his wars with antony he was resolved to be praeda victoris , he would be of the conquerors side . but men that are sincere in any religion , do hate and abhor such hypocritical dissemblers , and despise and spue them out for their nauseous lukewarmness ; and as men indeed of no religion or conscience , but for what serves to their present ends . but observe in what a lofty strain the prophet sets forth the security and confidence which follows integrity . he that walketh righteously and speaketh uprightly , he that despiseth the gain of oppressions , that shaketh his hands from holding bribes , that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood , and stoppeth his eyes from seeing evil . he shall dwell on high , his place of defence shall be the munition of rocks , bread shall be given him , his waters shall be sure . these were very critical and doubtful times which the prophet speaks of , and many were secretly for complying with the king of assyria , as believing it as impossible to withstand his force , as to dwell with everlasting burnings ; the prophet is so far from granting this , that he tells them all their security lay in being just and honest , and doing their duty , and then they would be as safe , as if they had constant provision among the most inaccessible rocks . it is observable concerning the israelites , that when they went about to secure themselves by subtile devices and contrivances of their own , making leagues and confederacies with the king of egypt and other neighbour princes , so often they were foiled , and baffled , and overcome by their enemies ; but when they put their trust in god , and committed themselves to his protection , he preserved and delivered them from the greatest dangers . i will not deny that there was something peculiar in their case , having the prophets directions ; and to trust mans wisdom against gods was madness and folly in them . but setting that aside , as there is no security like to gods protection , so there is no reason to think that will be wanting to them who do their duty sincerely and put their trust in him . ( . ) comparatively ; if we do compare several nations together , we shall find those to flourish most , and to be the most happy where men do most fear god and work righteousness ; where piety and vertue have the greatest countenance and incouragement ; and where vice and wickedness are the most discouraged and punished . this may seem a paradox at first hearing to those who consider by what ways of fraud and violence , of injustice and cruelty , of rapine and oppression , the great and mighty empires of the world have been raised and maintained ; and how little regard is shewed to any rules of honesty , justice , or the laws of nations in those kingdoms and states which resolve to be great , and in spight of other nations to maintain their greatness . yet notwithstanding this plausible objection , the truth of my assertion will appear , if we understand it as we ought to do with these following cautions . . that it is not to be understood of the largeness of dominion , or superfluity of riches , but of the true happiness of living in society together ; which is by promoting the real good of all . to which the vastness of empire , and immensity of riches is by no means necessary , but a sufficiency both of strength and treasure to defend it self in case of foreign enemies , and to provide for the necessities and conveniencies of all the members of it . those who have best considered these things , suppose that to be the most exact and perfect idea of government , where all things are in a certain measure , and have a proportion to each other so as most conduces to the true end of living ; not to riot and luxury , not to softness and effeminacy , not to pride and ambition , not to the heaping up of riches without use and respect to a general good ; but so as all men may according to their conditions and circumstances enjoy what they have , or can get , with the greatest comfort to themselves and their friends , and do the most generous and vertuous actions . . that this is not to be understood of the private benefit of any particular persons , but of the general good of all sorts and conditions of men . the eastern monarchies have seemed to be the most happy and flourishing to those who look at a distance upon them , and only observe the pomp and grandeur of their princes , without looking into the state and condition of the people . aristotle observes , that the eastern people had more wit and slavery with it , the northern had less quickness and more liberty , the greeks lying between both had their share in both . but the eastern slavery hath brought barbarism into greece it self ; and the northern liberty hath so improved the wits , and given such encouragement to the industry of men , that our people at this day enjoy more benefit by the riches of the east , than those do among whom they grow . can we call them a happy people that see much riches and enjoy none ; having nothing which they can call their own , unless it be their slavery ? that is certainly the happiest condition of a people , where the prince sits upon the throne of majesty and power , doing righteousness and shewing kindness ; and the people sit every man under his vine , and under his fig-tree , enjoying the fruits of his own labours , or his ancestors bounty : where the people think it their interest to support and obey their prince ; and the prince thinks it his interest to protect and defend his people . happy is the people that is in such a case ; but above all , happy is that people whose god is the lord. for without his blessing , the best government , the best laws , the best ministers can never preserve a nations happiness ; and there is no reason to expect his blessing , but in the wayes of piety and vertue . . that it is not to be understood of sudden and surprizing events , but of a lasting and continued state . for when god hath been highly provoked to punish several nations for their sins ; he may give unexpected success to that nation by whom he designs to punish the rest ; and when they have done that work , they may then suffer more smartly for their own iniquities . of this we have a remarkable instance in scripture ; god designed to punish the kingdoms of the earth for their sins ; to this purpose he raiseth up nebuchadnezar king of babylon , whom he therefore calls his servant ; and the first example of his severity was his own people ; when this was done , then follow the desolations of egypt , of phoenicia , arabia , and other countries in so strange a manner , that some have called it the age of the destruction of cities . but doth the king of babylon think to escape himself ? no , saith the prophet , the king of shesbach shall drink after them ; his turn would come at last , when he had accomplished the design god sent him upon in the punishment of others . thus for a time , a nation may seem to flourish exceedingly , and be victorious over others while they are as scourges in gods hand for the punishment of others , and when that work is over may suffer most severely for their own sins . . it is to be understood of persons under equal circumstances , when we compare the condition of people with each other : not the nobles of one nation with the peasants of another , nor the princes with the people ; but every rank and order of men with those of the same rank and condition . and upon these terms , we need no other proof of the truth of this assertion , than the instance in the text of the people of israel ; which will best appear by comparing the state of both kingdoms after the body of the people was broken into the kingdoms of israel and judah . the kingdom of israel by jeroboams policy , and for reason of state , fell off from the worship of the true god , and worshipped the calves of dan and bethel . but did they prosper or succeed more than the kingdom of judah ? the ten tribes had a much larger territory , yet the kingdom of judah was stronger and flourished more , and continued longer , by years , than the kingdom of israel did ; and when they were carried into captivity , the ten tribes were lost as to their name and interest among the people of assyria ; but the two tribes were restored after years captivity under the princes of the line of david . if we compare the kings of israel and judah together ; the posterity of david was kept up among the kings of judah ; but there were nine families in the kingdom of israel ; and but one of them lasted to the fourth generation , and that was of jehu , who did something towards the reformation of religion . of the eighteen kings of israel , but eight escaped dying by the sword : and it is easie to judge how miserable the state of that people must be , under so many violent changes of government . among the kings of judah those who were firmest to the true religion prospered most , and the nation under them enjoyed the greatest peace , or received the greatest deliverances , as in the dayes of asa , jehoshaphat and hezekiah . if we compare the times of the same kings together , we shall find that while they adhered firmly to god and religion the nation prospered exceedingly , as for a long time under the reigns of solomon and asa ; but when in their old age they began to warp in their religion and to decline in their piety , nothing but trouble and confusion followed . so true did they find the saying of hanani to asa , the eyes of the lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth , to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect towards him . but because he said , he had done foolishly in not relying on the lord , but on the king of syria , therefore , saith he , from henceforth thou shalt have wars . and from that time his government was uneasie both to himself and his people ; when he had imprisoned the prophet for reproving him . iii. that there are some circumstances in the sins of a nation , which do very much portend and hasten its ruine . as , . when they are committed after more than ordinary mercies received ; such as in reason ought to keep men most from the commission of them ; as greater knowledge of the will of god than other people enjoy ; more frequent warnings of their danger than others have had ; many and great deliverances which god hath vouchfafed ; when none of these things , nor all of them together do move a people to repent , they shew an obstinate and incorrigible temper , and therefore god may sooner proceed to punish them . god did not forbear to punish other nations for their transgressions , but he began with his own people . for lo i begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name , and should ye be utterly unpunished ? the destroying angels in ezekiel , were to begin at the sanctuary ; judgement , saith st. peter , must begin at the house of god. he draws the line of his justice parallel to that of his mercy ; and when every mercy is put to the account , and heightens the guilt , the fumm will soon rise so high to call for execution . the prophet amos tells damascus , and gaza , and tyre , and edom , and ammon , and moab , that none of them shall escape being punished for their transgressions ; they need not doubt , the rod would come time enough upon them ; but yet god would begin with his own children : you only have i known of all the families of the earth , therefore i will punish you for all your iniquities . where god hath given wonderful marks of his kindness , and many deliverances time after time , and yet they continue to do wickedly , there is the greater reason to expect sharper and severer punishments . . when they are committed with more than ordinary contempt of god and religion . all ages are bad enough ; and every age is apt to complain of it self , as the worst of any ; because it knows more ill of it self , than of the foregoing . but yet there is a difference in the manner of sinning ; sometimes the stream of wickedness hides its head , and runs under ground , and makes little noise , although it holds on the same course ; at other times it seems to break forth like a mighty torrent as though it would bear down all before it , as though the fountains of the great deep were broken up , and hell were let loose , and the prisoners there had shaken off their chains and come up upon the earth ; when atheism , prophaneness and all manner of wickedness grow impudent and bare-faced ; when men do not only neglect religion , but reproach and contemn it . shall i not visit for these things , saith the lord , shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this ? god did forbear his people of judah beyond what they could have expected , waiting for their amendment ; but when they added impudence to their obstinacy , when they made sport with the prophets , and turned their threatnings into songs of mirth and drollery , then the peremptory decree came forth , and there was no hopes to escape . but they mocked the messengers of god and despised his words , and misused his prophets , untill the wrath of the lord arose against his people , till there was no remedy . there still seemed to be some hopes left till they came to this temper . but when they burlesqued the prophet jeremiahs words , and turned the expressions he used into ridicule , crying in contempt , the burden of the lord , which is called perverting the words of the living god : when they turned ezekiels words into pleasant songs , and made sport with gods judgements , no wonder he was so highly provoked . for there can be no worse symptom to a people , than to laugh at the only means to cure them ; and if this once grow common , it must needs make their condition desperate . for then it comes to gods turn to mock and laugh too ; because i have called and ye have refused , i have stretched out my hand and no man regarded ; but ye have set at nought all my counsel , and would have none of my reproof ; i also will laugh at your calamity , and mock when your fear cometh . wo be unto that people whom the almighty takes pleasure in punishing . . when there is an universal degeneracy of all ranks and conditions of men . i do not mean such as is common to humane nature , but from the particular vertues of their ancestors , or a common practice of those vices which do most frequently draw down the judgements of god , and make him to have a controversie with a land. by swearing , and lying , and killing , and stealing , and committing adultery , they braak out , and blood toucheth blood , therefore shall the land mourn . it was a strange degree of corruption the people of jerusalem were fallen to before god led them into captivity ; when the prophet jeremiah used those expressions to them , run ye to and fro in the streets of jerusalem , and see now and know , and seek in the broad places there of , if ye can find a man , if there be any that executeth judgement , that seeketh the truth , and i will pardon it . could there ever be a fairer or kinder offer than this ? but as isaiah expresseth it , the whole head was sick , and the heart faint ; from the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it , but wounds , and bruises , and putrifying sores . it seems a very strange passage in the law of leprosie , that if the leprosie covered all the flesh , the person was to be pronounced clean ; but if any raw flesh appeared , he was unclean : which it is very hard to understand , unless it were that the power of infection was then gone . such a state the people of jerusalem seemed to have been in , there was no room for infection left , the plague of leprosie had so over run them , that there was no sound part left in the whole body . thus i have considered the influence which doing wickedly hath upon the ruine of a nation , it remains now that i make application of this to our own case . we have been a people that have received wonderful mercies and many signal deliverances from gods hand . he hath placed us in a rich and fruitful land ; and hath furnished us with so great plenty , that even that hath been thought our burden ; hath blessed us with such an increase of trade , that our merchants far exceed those of tyre both in riches and number . our ships of trade are like a valley of cedars when they lie at home ; and when they are abroad , they compass the earth , and make the riches of the east and west-indies to meet in our streets . and since like the prince of tyre , our seat is in the midst of the seas , god hath thereby secured us from such sudden inroads and invasions of foreign enemies as many of our neighbour countries do groan under at this day : where the miseries of war are felt before they are seen ; and those who thought themselves at ease and quiet , may be surprised in their beds , and before they are aware of it may themselves , and families , and goods , and houses and country be all burnt and consumed together . but god hath compassed us about with a deep sea and a large channel , and given us such a powerful navy as may be both a defence at home and a terror abroad . as to our civil constitution , if we consider the admirable temper of our government , the justice and wisdom of our laws , and the greatness of our liberties , we have no reason to envy the condition of any people upon earth . and after all our intestine broils and confusions which our sins had brought upon us , god was pleased in a most surprising manner , without war or bloodshed , to our great satisfaction and the amazement of the world , to restore our soveraign to his throne , our church and people to their just rights and liberties . and while our neighbour nations have lamentably suffered under all the dismal effects of a lasting war , he hath enlarged our trade , continued our peace , and thereby increased our prosperity , after we had smarted under a dreadful fire and a raging pestilence . thus far all things tend still to make us a happy nation , if we did know and value our own happiness . but that which above all other things should make us so , hath been the great occasion of our trouble , and is still of our fears , and that is religion . and yet in this respect we have advantages above any other nation in the christian world , having a church reformed with so much wisdom and moderation as to avoid the dangerous extreams on both sides . but even this hath enraged our adversaries of the roman church , and made them the more restless to destroy it ; and to stick at no means which they thought might tend to its ruine . o blessed jesus ! that ever thy holy name should be assumed by traytors and murderers . or that the promoting thy true religion should be made the colour for the most wicked practises ! not that the pure and peaceable religion of jesus christ doth sowre and imbitter the spirits of men towards each other , or dispose them to malice , hatred , revenge and cruelty ( some of the worst passions of humane nature ) or to the accomplishing their own ends by secret conspiracies and open violence , by treachery and falshood , by murthers and assasinations , either on the ministers of justice , or on the most merciful and best natured of kings . but be astonished o ye heavens , and tremble o earth , that hast brought forth such a generation of vipers who are continually making their way through the bowels of their mother , and as we have reason to believe have designed to destroy the father of their country . if these be the kind embraces of one that pretends to be the mother-church , if this be the paternal affection of the holy father at rome , if this indeed be zeal for the catholick cause , if this be the way to reconcile us to their communion , have we not great reason to be fond of returning into the bosom of such a church which may strangle us as soon as it gets us within her arms ? but there are some whose concernment it is , to make men believe there was no such dangerous plot intended ; i meddle not with that evidence which lies before you , but there is one notorious circumstance obvious to all persons , and sufficient to convince any , which is the horrid murther actually committed on one of his majesties justices of peace , in cold blood , with great contrivance and deliberation . do men imbrue their hands in blood for nothing ? why no other person , why at such a time , why in such a manner ? there was a reason for all this ; he had taken the examinations ; he knew too much to be suffered to live , and they hoped by his death to stifle his evidence , and to affrighten others from searching too far ; and they managed that matter so , as though they had a mind to convince the world , they had no other end in taking away his life , but to prevent a further discovery . and they whom his death doth not convince , neither would they be convinced , though he should rise again from the dead . god forbid that we should charge such barbarous cruelties , such wicked conspiracies , such horrid designs on all who live in the communion of that church ; but we must distinguish between the seduced party who are not thought fit to be trusted with such things , for fear their consciences check at them , and their good nature disclose them ; and the busie active faction , who are always restless and designing , and act by such maxims of morality as the more sober and modest heathens would abhor . what hath this party of men been doing among us this last hundred of years and more , but plotting conspiracies , inflaming our differences , betraying our liberties , heightning our discontents , and in short , undermining the foundatior s both of our government and religion ? and shall such men alwayes triumph that they are too hard for our laws ? and that like the canaanites and jebusites to the children of israel , they will still be as scourges in ●●r sides , and thorns in our eyes ? if these things must be , i hope god designs it not to destroy us at last by them , but i am sure it doth prove and try us , whether we will hearken to the commandments of the lord , or to the vain traditions of men. god knows , i speak not these things out of any malice or ill will to the persons of any , for , that i may use st. paul's words , my hearts desire and prayer to god for them all is , that they might be saved . and although i cannot bear them witness , yet my hopes are some even of these may think they have a zeal for god in all this ; but we are sure it is not according to knowledge . such a blind zeal as the jews had , who when they killed the apostles , thought they did god good service . but it is so furious , so inhumane , so unchristian a zeal , that it is charity to them , as well as necessary care of our own safety , to keep them from a capacity of doing themselves and others mischief . but before i conclude , the text suggests to us three things , very pertinent to the duty of this day ; which i shall briefly recommend to your consideration . . matter of humiliation for our sins , as they have an influence upon the nations suffering . . matter of advice , only fear the lord , and serve him in truth , and with all your heart . . matter of encouragement , for , consider , what great things he hath done for you . . matter of humiliation for our sins . which have been many and great , and aggravated by all the mercies and deliverances which god hath vouchsafed to us ; and therefore he may be justly provoked to punish us proportionably to the measures of our ingratitude and disobedience . let us lay our hands upon our hearts this day , and seriously consider what requital we have made to the lord for all the benefits he hath bestowed upon us ? for the light of his truth , the purity of his worship , the power of his grace , the frequency of his sacraments , the influences of his spirit , and the continuance hitherto of our established religion , in spite of all opposition whatsoever . but have we not been guilty of too much slighting that truth , neglecting that worship , resisting that grace , contemning those sacraments , quenching that spirit ; and of too great coldness and indifferency about matters of religion ? i do not fear that ever the church of rome should prevail among us by strength of reason , or force of argument , with all its specious colours and pretences , unless it be among those who understand neither one , nor the other religion ; but if men be loose in their principles , and unconcerned about religion in general , there will not be courage and constancy enough to keep it out . i do much more fear popery coming in at the back-door of atheism and prophaneness ; than under all its false and deceitful pretences of universality and infallibility . and this those have been aware of , who have been so industriously sowing among us the seeds of irreligion ; knowing , that if men be unconcerned as to all religion , they will never have the courage to oppose any ; but will be sure to close with the prevailing side . next to this , i know no greater advantage that they take against us , than from the unnatural heats and unchristian divisions which have been among us . if men were wise they would consider , at least in this our day , the things which do belong to our peace . how can men answer it at the great day , if in such a critical time as this is , they stand upon little niceties and punctilios of honour rather than conscience , or upon keep up the interests of their several parties , and do not those things which themselves think they lawfully may do towards an union with us ? i pray god , the continuance of these breaches may not look like an argument of divine infatuation upon us . but what can we say to that looseness and debauchery of manners , to that riot and luxury , to that wantonness and prophaneness , to that fashion of customary swearing , and atheistick drollery , which have been so much and so justly complained of among us ? i hope there are many thousands at this day , in england , whose souls abhor the abominations that are committed , and who mourn in secret for them , and therefore our case may not be so desperate as that of jerusalem was . may we all this day so heartily repent of all these follies and impieties , that the cause of our fears which our sins give us being removed , we may hearken ( . ) to the matter of advice here given , only to fear the lord and to serve him in truth , and with all our heart . as though samuel had said , your hearts stand trembling still at the fear of gods judgements , when he doth but lift up his voyce in the thunder , and shew his power in the rain ; i will tell you , how your hearts may be at ease and quiet from the fear of evil : be faithful to god , maintain and practise the true religion , sincerely , diligently , constantly , universally , and never doubt his protection of you , let your enemies be never so many , or your dangers never so great . nothing exposes men more to the wrath and vengeance of god , nor provokes him more to leave a people to their own counsels , than false-heartedness in religion and hypocrisie do . for the hypocrite thinks to put a trick upon god almighty ; and while he seems to carry it fair towards him , he is dealing underhand for his own security another way : and god is then concerned in honour to let the world see he will not be mocked ; for he knows how to take the crafty in their own devices ; and very often brings to nought the most politick fetches of self-designing men . for when men seek themselves and not the honour of god or religion , but are ready to betray what ought to be dearer than their lives , for some mean and private interests of their own , they are oft-times so far from compassing their ends , that they become the scorn and reproach of men . but if men preserve their integrity , and hold fast to the thing that is right , they preserve their honour , even among their enemies , and either escape troubles , or have the comfort of a good conscience under them , and however things happen to them for a while , they are sure to have peace at the last . lastly , here is matter of incouragement . for consider what great things he hath done for you . when jacob was sent into egypt , and your fathers cryed unto the lord , then the lord sent moses and aaron which brought our fathers out of egypt , and made them dwell in this place . when their sins had brought them into great distresses afterwards , and they cryed unto the lord and confessed their sins , then the lord raised up jerubbaal and bedan , and jephthah , and samuel , and delivered you out of the hand of your enemies ●n every side , and you dwelled safe . now consider , the same god who did those things , can do as great for you still ; for his power , and wisdom , and goodness are the same , and therefore you have the greatest reason to put your trust in him at all times , since he never for sakes them that seek him . blessed be god that we have this day a farther argument for us to fear and serve him in truth , and with all our heart , by considering what great things he hath done for us . many deliverances hath he wrought for us time after time , for which we ought still to be thankful , since we yet enjoy the benefit of them . but the memory of former deliverances was almost worn out with many , and some began to question whether such holy and innocent men as the fathers of the society could be guilty of such horrid conspiracies ; some were so perswaded of their loyalty , that the vipers seemed to have changed their natures and to have lost their teeth , and to be a very soft and innocent kind of creatures . in somuch , that they were hardly brought to believe there could be a plot among them , especially of so horrid a nature as this appears more and more to have been , when such a viperous brood were suffered not only to lye quiet in the shade , but to sport themselves in the sun , and to enjoy the freedom of their own retreats . but god doth bring to light the hidden things of darkness by such wayes as shew his providence , more than our prudence and foresight , that while we have the comfort , he alone may have the glory of our deliverance . but yet methinks we stand as it were upon the brink of a mighty precipice , which is so full of horror , that we tremble to look down from it ; we are at present held up by a strong hand , but as by one single thread , and can we then think our selves secure from so great a danger ? blessed be god for that unanimity , that zeal , that courage , that constancy you have hitherto shewed in the maintenance of our church and religion ; but there is so much yet to be done for a firm establishment of it to all generations ( which now by his majesties gracious favour is put into your hands ) as calls for all our prayers , and your particular care , lest if this opportunity be let slip , you never have such another . this seems to be an honour reserved for this parliament , as the crown and glory of all your endeavours for the publick good. go on then , to raise up this monument to your eternal fame . this will not only make you beloved and esteemed by the present age , but this will endear your memories to posterity , and make ages to come rise up and call this a happy session . but lest our sins should yet hinder us from so great a blessing , we have great reason to humble our selves before god this day , to bewail those sins which may yet provoke him to punish us , and by fasting and prayer to implore his mercy ; that he would go on to preserve his majesties person from all violent attempts , our church and religion from all the designs of its enemies , and deliver us all from unreasonable and wicked men. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e psal ●● , . prov. . . gen. . . cor. . . sam. . . v. . . . v. . v. . v. . mas. in jof . . . drus. in jud. . . sam. . . v. . v. . v. . v. . v. . v. . sam. . . v. . v. . v. . from v. . to v. . jose . an. l. . c. . v. , c . ch . . . . . deut. . . . . . . . . . . . . . from v. , to . v. , . v. , . v. . lev. . from v. , to . v. . v. . v. . v. . deut. . . isa. . . . jer. . . ezek. . . deut. . . v. . v. . v. . numb . . . gen. . . matth. . . psalm . . v. . is. . . is. . , . . v. . . . . je. . . ju. . . jer. . from . to . eze. . , &c. . . nah. . , . zeph. . . is. . , . salvian . de cub . dei , l. . disput. in liv. l. . c. . h. jordanus de eo quod in morbis est divinum . conring . epist. . jer. . , . jonah . . v. . v. . v. . v. . sam. . . v. . king. . . . . . . v. . king. . . . . king. . . is. . . king. . . v. . v. . arist. pol. l. . c. . polit. l. . c. . psa. . . jer. . . v. . . marsh. chr. can. p. . jer. . . v. . chro. . . v. . jer. . eze . pet. amos ●● . . , . hro . . jer. . , . ezek. . . in canticum oris sui vertunt illos . vul. lat. pro. . . . . hos. . , . jer. . . is. . , . lev. . , , . jos. . . v. . . . . ps. . . sir, you may perceive by the inclosed brief for rebuilding the cathedral church of st. paul ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) sir, you may perceive by the inclosed brief for rebuilding the cathedral church of st. paul ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ] p. s.n., [london : ] place of publication from wing ( nd ed.). signed on p. : edw. stillingfleet, dean of st. pauls. "imprimatur. dat. xxx. mai. . h. london (henry compton)." -- cf. p. . reproduction of original in: bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng st. paul's cathedral (london, england) -- early works to . london (england) -- history -- th century. great britain -- history -- charles ii, - . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion sir , you may perceive by the inclosed brief for rebuilding the cathedral church of st. paul , how much his majesty is concerned to have this work carried on , and in what particular manner he recommends it to the city of london ; and therefore i am commanded , not only to send you the briefs , but to excite you to a more than ordinary care and diligence in promoting so good a work , and which tends so much to the honour of this city . i am sensible what objections a work of this nature is like to meet with in our age ; wherein some love to cavil at whatever relates to god and his worship ; and especially if it be like to cost them any thing ; others who seem very zealous for some kind of religion , are for enjoying it on as cheap and easie terms as may be ; and many of those who declare a good will to this work , yet express great dissatisfaction both as to this method of proceeding , and the time we have chosen , which they think very unsuitable to such a design , if we either respect the present state of the city or nation . so that till such objections be removed out of mens minds , there is little reason to expect they should make any free and chearful contributions ; and if i can be any waies serviceable therein , i shall think my time and pains well employed in writing and sending this letter to you . it is a principle among those who love a thrifty and parsimonious religion , that whatever is beyond the bounds and measures of necessity and conveniency in the worship of god , is vain and superstitious , and therefore deserves no encouragement at all . i do not wonder at this principle in those men who measure their religion by their interest , and choose that which brings them the best trade , and saves them the most expence . but there are many well meaning persons among us , who look on what is great and magnificent as unsuitable to the times of the gospel , and only proper for that dispensation , wherein god declared , that he loved the gates of sion more than all the dwellings of jacob. but i desire such to consider that we worship the same god , who gave order for the building of solomon's temple ; not meerly for the conveniency of that way of worship ; but with all the splendour and greatness which was agreeable to the majesty of that god who was worshipped therein . for since it was the house of god , the sense of nature did teach the jews as well as gentiles , that it ought to bear some proportion to the greatness of him who dwelt in it : and that is the reason given by solomon to king hiram , and the house which i build is great , for great is our god above all gods . hath not god made the most glorious temple for himself in heaven , and adorned it after such a manner , as all the wit and art of his creatures can never exactly describe or imitate ? and the jews think , not without reason , that the fashion of their temple was designed on purpose to represent in little , the far more magnificent temple which god had framed for his own glory in the fabrick of the world. and certainly , it is no part of the ceremonial law , to worship god in a way agreeable to those conceptions of his greatness , which the works of his hands suggest unto us . under the gospel , i grant , that christ hath altered the way of worship which was used among the jews ; and now we are no longer tied to make any part of the places dedicated to god's worship , a kind of shambles by slaying the beasts for sacrifice , but must we therefore make them stables ? there is a natural decency and fitness to be observed in these things which christ hath never taken away , no more than he hath their separation from common use ; the destroying whereof brings such rudeness and barbarism into religion , as even the turks and scythians abhorr . and although christ appeared in a low and mean condition in the world , as most suitable to the design of his coming , yet even when he lay in the manger , he had gold , and frankincense , and myrrhe offered him ( which were all rich and costly presents ) and that by wise men too . and when he was to be buried , his body was embalmed before-hand with a costly oyntment ; and we know what a severe check christ himself gave to him that said , to what purpose is all this waste ? although at the same time he pretended great charity to the poor . it was the poverty and persecution of the primitive christians , which made them at any time to worship god in chambers and grotts : for as soon as they had any respite and ease , they erected lofty and beautiful churches , as eusebius relates ; and the first christian emperours shewed their zeal in the splendour and magnificence of the churches which they built ; and not only the emperours themselves , but the best christians of those times thought this to be for the honour of christ and of the christian religion . and do these men indeed think , that building great houses for themselves , and adorning them with the richest furniture , or raising of families , and heaping up vast treasures , is more agreeable to the design of the gospel , than serving god in a beautiful and magnificent church ? but if none of these things will move them , let them consider this work , as a design which will employ many poor men for many years ( and this they cannot deny to be a work of charity . ) let them look on it as an ornament of the city , as an honour of the nation , as like to be a standing monument of protestant affection to good and publick works ; and on such accounts as these , we are sure there can be no scruple of conscience against it . but others say , their own parish churches are not built , and therefore it cannot be expected they should do any thing yet towards the cathedral . i am heartily sorry for the occasion of this objection in any parts of the city ; and god forbid that we should hinder the building of any of the parochial churches ; but i do not understand how this will do it . all that we desire is , that the mother-church may not be forgotten , while the others are rising so fast out of their ruines , and so many of them are already finished with extraordinary beauty and conveniency . for , however length of time hath made the relation to be almost forgotten between the mother-church and the rest ; yet for some ages of the christian church , whatever other conveniencies they might have for assembling together , there was but one church in a city which had a baptistery belonging to it , that all the christians being there baptized , might own their relation to the mother-church . and although , since the great increase of the number of christians , it hath been thought fit to have the sacraments administred in parochial churches , yet it ought to be considered , that this church is properly the city church , to which our princes on extraordinary occasions , and the governours of the city have alwaies resorted , and where the worship of god hath been more solemnly performed , and the word of god set forth by preachers chosen out from the universities , and all parts of the kingdom , to the great honour as well as satisfaction of this city . and it ought not to be forgotten , that the emulous city to this for trade and riches , hath not only built a stathouse , but a magnificent church too at their own charges ; and it will be no great reputation to london to fall so much short of amsterdam in zeal for the publick worship of god. but why should the burden lie on the city which hath suffered so much of late by a dreadful fire ? this were indeed a terrible objection , if it had been made in the ruines of the city ; but thanks be to the wonderful providence of god almighty , we have lived to see the city rise with a splendour and greatness so far surpassing whatever it had before , that this were enough to put us in mind of building the house of god in a way suitable to the present grandeur of the city . i do not think that in all respects the prophet's argument will reach our case , is it time for you , o ye , to dwell in your cieled houses , and this house lie waste ? but yet methinks , those who have already laid out so many thousands on a monument of the dreadful fire , should think themselves as much concerned to contribute freely towards a monument of the resurrection of the city after it , and what can be more proper for that , that the re-building st. pauls ? lastly , those who have nothing else to object against this work , find fault with the season , as very ill chosen by us , when so many burdens and taxes lie already on the city , and men are still afraid of more . as though the season were of our own choosing ! whereas the true state of the case is this : as long as our stock held out any waies proportionably to the expence , we went on chearfully and with great diligence ; and we may say it without vanity , the stock we had hath been managed with as much care and good husbandry , as of any publick buildng whatsoever : but when we found that we could not carry on the work without farther supplies ; what should we do ? should we let the work stand still without trying other waies ? then we might have justly suffered under the clamours which would have been made against us , that the work might have gone on , if we had not been careless and negligent ; that the city would , no doubt , give very considerable supplies , if they were but asked ; that in the former repairs the chamber of london gave two hundred pounds per annum for ten years ; besides the liberal contributions of the aldermen and of the wards , and companies ; that it was not to be supposed , the city should be less able , or less willing than it was at that time ; that a very easie rate upon the new-built and inhabited houses would serve to sinish the choire ; that but a fourth part of the rate for the poor in all the parishes of england would go very far towards the body of the church ; that no citizen of london would ever refuse doing something towards it ; that at least it was but our trying this way , and if it did not succeed , we need not doubt at last of the kindness both of king and parliament . upon such discourses as these , it was thought fit by the commissioners to make an address to his majesty , for authority to gather contributions , which out of his royal clemency and great readiness to promote this work , he was pleased to grant us . and now the time is vnseasonable ! as though it were ever otherwise , to those who have no mind to it ! but is it ever unseasonable to do praise-worthy , pious and generous actions ? we do not desire men to impoverish themselves to re-build st. paul's , but to give freely and chearfully , and in such a proportion as other publick occasions will permit , and as will be no hindrance to the concernment of their trade or families . for our fears of future burdens and troubles , can we do better to prevent them than to be full of good works ? and if we were as full of troubles , as we are of fears , we may remember that the city and temple of jerusalem were fore-told to be built in troublous times : but thanks be to god , we yet enjoy peace and tranquillity ; our port is full of ships , our city of trade , and there is great store of riches among many , who without any considerable diminution to their stock , may contribute freely to this great work. i am glad the clergy of this city have already shewed so good an example to others by their own subscriptions ; and therefore we are the more encouraged to hope for your chearful assistance in procuring subscriptions and contributions from others , and your diligence in pursuing the directions contained in the brief it self . i am your affectionate brother and servant , edw. stillingfleet , dean of st. pauls , and arch-deacon of london . for the better satisfaction of all persons concerning the present state of the building , i have annexed a brief abstract of it ; and for the encouragement of others to subscribe now , i have adjoyned some of the subscriptions made in this city towards the former repairs . s t. paul's church , london . a brief account of the receipts and disbursements for the rebuilding the said church .   l. s. d. l. s. d. l. s. d. remained in cash in the chamber of london , the first day of may , . ( when the work was first begun ) upon the coal duty at d. ½ . per chaldron — . . ¼ . upon free gifts , legacies , &c. — . brought more into the chamber aforesaid upon the said duty of coals ; from the said first of may , . to the first of may , . ½ . ¼ . and upon free gifts , &c. — ¼ . out of which hath been paid and disbursed in the said building from the said first day of may , . to the first of may , . including the carting away of loads of rubbish ; breaking up cubical yards of old foundation walls , with scaffolding , and taking down old walls , amounting to l. and upwards — . . besides there is due upon a reasonable conjecture for scaffolding and other materials , masons work not yet measured , the several accounts not being yet audited — . subscriptions towards the repairs of s t. paul's , , &c. the cities gift , feb. . the free gift of the city out of the chamber of london , by order of the lord major and court of aldermen , the summ of two hundred pounds per annum , for ten years . the ninth annual payment i find received feb. . . — . per annum for ten years . the company of merchant-taylors subscribed the summ of five hundred pounds to be paid by fifty pounds per annum , for ten years ; the first payment to begin before easter , . l. per annum for ten years . the company of gold-smiths four hundred pounds l. per annum for eight years . the company of grocers three hundred and fifty pounds l. per annum for seven years . the company of vintners one hundred pounds to be paid before the last of jan. .   the company of salters one hundred and forty pounds , forty pounds in present , and the remainder at l. per annum for five years . the company of skinners the summ of two hundred and eighty pounds at l. per annum for seven years . the company of girdlers l. per annum for seven years . the company of ironmongers l. per annum for five years . the company of cloth-workers l. per annum for five years . the company of stationers l. per annum for ten years . the company of fishmongers l. per annum , of which i find the seventh payment . the company of haberdashers l. per annum , of which i find the eighth payment . i omit the other companies , these being the most considerable for subscriptions . aldermen , .   l. s. d. sir john leman . and left by him , . . sir robert ducie . sir george whitmore . alderman bromfield . sir james campbell . sir william acton . sir john gore . alderman pool . alderman backhouse &c. . sir paul pinder's extraordinary bounty ought never to be forgotten , who besides what he did towards adorning the quire , gave to the south end l.     wards , . langborn ward . broadstreet ward . farringdon without . bassishaw ward . aldgate ward . farringdon without , more . candlewickstreet ward . bishopsgate ward . farringdon within . limestreet ward . tower-ward . aldersgate ward . cripplegate ward . more of the same . vintry ward . these i have only mention'd as a tast of the readiness of the city at that time , and they are faithfully extracted out of the books of the receipts then kept in the chamber of london . imprimatur . dat. xxx . mai. . h. london . the council of trent examin'd and disprov'd by catholick tradition in the main points in controversie between us and the church of rome with a particular account of the times and occasions of introducing them : part : to which a preface is prefixed concerning the true sense of the council of trent and the notion of transubstantiation. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the council of trent examin'd and disprov'd by catholick tradition in the main points in controversie between us and the church of rome with a particular account of the times and occasions of introducing them : part : to which a preface is prefixed concerning the true sense of the council of trent and the notion of transubstantiation. stillingfleet, edward, - . the second edition corrected; with an appendix in answer to some late passages of j.w. of the society of jesus, concerning the prohibiting of scripture in vulgar languages. [ ], xxiii, [ ], p. printed for h. mortlock ..., london : . includes bibliographical references. advertisement: p. [ ]. reproduction of original in duke university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -- controversial literature. council of trent ( - ) transubstantiation. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the council of trent examin'd and disprov'd by catholick tradition . in the main points in controversie between us and the church of rome ; with a particular account of the times and occasions of introducing them ; part i. to which a preface is prefixed concerning the true sense of the council of trent and the notion of transubstantiation . the second edition corrected . with an appendix in answer to some late passages of j. w. of the society of jesus , concerning the prohibiting of scripture in vulgar languages . london , printed for h. mortlock at the phoenix in s. pauls church-yard , . the preface . there is it seems a train in controversies , as well as in thoughts ; one thing still giving a start to another ; conferences produce letters ; letters , books ; and one discourse gives occasion for another . for this follows the former as a necessary pursuit of the same argument against tradition . i. s. in his last letter , had vouched the authority of the council of trent proceeding upon tradition , and he instanced in three points , transubstantiation , sacramental confession and extreme unction . the examination of this i thought fit to reserve for a discourse by it self ; wherein , instead of confining my self to those three particulars , i intend to go through the most material points there established , and to prove from the most authentick testimonies , that there was no true catholick tradition for any of them . and if i can make good what i have undertaken , i shall make the council of trent it self the great instance against the infallibility of tradition . this is a new undertaking ; which the impetuousness of our adversaries setting up tradition for the ground of their faith , hath brought me to . but besides the shewing that really they have not tradition on their side ; i have endeavoured to trace the several steps and to set down the times and occasions of introducing those points which have caused that unhappy breach in the christian world , whose sad effects we daily see and lament , but have little hopes to see remied , till these new points be discarded and scripture interpreted by truely catholick tradition , be made the standard of christian communion . i do not pretend , that all these points came in at one time or in the same manner ; for some errours and corruptions came in far more early ; some had the favour of the church of rome in a higher degree ; some were more generally received in the practice of the church in later times , than others ; and some were merely school points before the council of trent , but as far as the thomists and scotists could be made to agree there against the reformers , these passed for articles of faith. for , this was one of the great arts of that council to draw up their decrees in such terms , as should leave room enough for eternal wranglings among themselves , provided they agreed in doing the business effectually against the hereticks , as they are pleased to call them . i therefore forbear to urge these as points of faith , which have been freely debated among themselves since the council of trent , without any censure . we have enough in the plain decrees and canons of that council , without medling with any school-points . and so i cannot be charged with misrepresenting . the great debate of late hath been about the true exposition of the points there defined ; and for my part , i am content to yield to any just and reasonable methods of giving the true sense of them . and such i conceive these to be , i. where the council of trent makes use of words in a strict and limited sense , there it is unreasonable to understand them in a large and improper sense . as for instance , sess. . c. . it decrees that justified persons do verè promerere ; truely merit eternal life ; and can. . there is an anathema against him who denies true merit in the good works of justified persons , both as to increase of grace and eternal life . there is no one conversant in ancient writers , but knows that there was a large and improper sense of the word merit ; but how is it impossible to apply that sense , where such care is taken , that it may be understood in a strict and limited sense ? if the council had left the word in its general sense , there might have been reason to have given the fairest interpretation to it ; but when it is certainly known , that there had been a difference of opinions in the church of rome about true and proper merit , and that which was not ( however it were called , ) and the council declares for the former , no man of understanding can believe that onely the improper sense was meant by it . as in the point of the eucharist when the council declares that the words of christ , this is my body , are truely and properly to be understood ; would it not be thought strange for any one to say , that the council notwithstanding might mean that christ's words may be figuratively understood ? and we must take the true notion of merit not from any large expressions of the ancients , but from the conditions of true and proper merit among themselves . but of this at large afterwards . so as to the notion of sacraments ; every one knows how largely that word was taken in ancient writers ; but it would be absurd to understand the council of trent in that sense , when sess. . can. . de sacramentis , it denounces an anathema not merely against him that denies seven sacraments ; but against him that doth not hold every one of them to be truely and properly a sacrament . and in the creed of pius iv. one article is , that there are seven true and proper sacraments how vain a thing then were it for any to expound the sacraments in a large and improper sense ? ii. where the council of trent hath not declared it self , but it is fully done in the catechism made by its appointment , we ought to look on that , as the true sense of the council . as in the case of the sacraments ; the council never declares what it means by true and proper sacraments ; but the catechism makes large and full amends for this defect . for after it hath mention'd the use of the word in profane and sacred writers , it sets down the sense of it according to their divines for a sensible sign which conveys the grace which it signifies . and after a large explication of the nature of signs , it gives this description of a true and proper sacrament , that it is a sensible thing , which by divine institution not only hath the force of signifying but of causing grace . and to shew the authority of this catechism for explicating the doctrine of the sacraments we need only to look into sess. . c. . de reform . where it is required that the people be instructed in the sacraments according to ●it . it is supposed that the catechism was appointed to be made in the th ses●ion at the instigation of carolus borromaeus , ( since canonized ) but it was not finished while the council sate , and therefore sess. . it was refer'd to the judgment and authority of the pope . i confess therefore it hath not a conciliar authority stamped upon it , but it hath a sort of transfused infallibility , as far as they could convey it ; and as much as a council hath , when it borrows it from the popes confirmation . it was near two tears hammering at trent , viz. from . of feb. . to decemb. . when the council rose ; afterwards , it was preparing at rome three years longer , and then presented to the pope to be approved , and published by his authority , after it had been carefully review'd by cardinal sirlet , borromeo , and others ; and hath since been universally received in the roman church ; so that we can have no more authentick exposition of the sense of the council of trent , than what is contained in that cat●chism . iii. where the council of trent declares a thing in general to be lawfull and due , but doth not express the manner of it , that is to be understood from the generally receiv'd and allowed practices at that time . for , otherwise the council must be charged with great unfaithfulness in not setting down and correcting publick and notorious abuses , when it mention'd the things themselves and some abuses about them . as in the th session , concerning purgatory , invocation of saints , worship of images and relicks , it goes no farther than that the sound doctrine be taught , that saints are to be invocated , images and relicks to be worship'd ; but never defines what that sound doctrine is , what bounds are to be set in the worship of saints , images and relicks , which it is unlawfull to exceed . so that in this case , we have no other way to judge of the meaning of the council , but by comparing the publick and allow'd practices of the church with the general decrees of the council . and we have this farther reason for it , that we are told by the latest expositors of it , that the sense of the church in speculative points , is to be taken from publick practices . for , thus one of them expresses himself , moreover , even her speculative doctrines are so mixed with practical ceremonies , which represent them to the vulgar , and instruct even the meanest capacities in the abstrusest doctrines , that it seems ever impossible to make an alteration in her doctrine without abrogating her ceremonies , or changing her constant practices . iv. where the decrees of the council , are not sufficiently clear , there we must take in the canons to make the sense more plain . this rule i take from the council it self , which in the th session , just before the canons saith , that those are added , that all may know not only what they are to hold and follow , but what they are to shun and avoid . as in the famous instance of transubstantiation ; suppose , that the words of the decree do not determine expresly the modus ; yet it is impossible for any one to doubt of it who looks into the canon , which denounces an anathema against him , not only that denies transubstantiation , but that asserts the substance of bread and wine to remain after consecration . therefore he that asserts transubstantiation according to the council of trent , must hold it in such a manner , as thereby to understand that the substance of bread and wine doth not remain . otherwise he is under an anathema by the express canon of the council . therefore it is so far from being a fatal oversight , ( as a late author expresses it , ) to say that the council of trent hath determin'd the modus of the real presence , that no man who is not resolved to oversee it can be of another opinion . and herein the divines of the church of rome do agree with us , viz. that the particular modus is not only determin'd by the council , but that it is a matter of faith to all persons of the communion of that church . as not only appears from the d canon , but from the very decree it self , sess. . ch . . the holy synod declares , that by consecration of the bread and wine , there is a conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of christ , and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood , which conversion is fitly and properly by the holy catholick church called transubstantiation . in which words the council doth plainly express the modus of the real presence to be , not by a presence of christ's body together with the substance of the bread , as the lutherans held , but by a conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body , &c. and since there were different manners of understanding this real presence , if the council did not espouse one so , as to reject the other as heretical ; then it is impossible to make the lutheran doctrine to be declared to be heretical , i. e , unless the council did determine the modus of the real presence . for , if it did not , then notwithstanding the decrees and canons of the council of trent , persons are at liberty to believe either transubstantiation or consubstantiation , which i think no roman catholick will allow . but. it is said , that the meaning of the decree is , that the real presence is not to be understood after a natural , but a sacramental manner ; but doth it not plainly tell us , how that sacramental manner is to be understood , viz. by a conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the whole substance of the body , &c. and if other ways be possible , and all others be rejected , then this particular modus must be determin'd . i grant , that the council doth not say , there is an annihilation of the elements ; and i know no necessity of using that term , for that which is supposed to be turned into another thing cannot properly be said to be annihilated ( which is the reducing it to nothing ) but the council doth assert a total conversion of one substance into another , and where that is , that substance must wholly cease to be what it was ; and so , there can be no substance of the elements remaining after consecration . for , as aquinas observes , quod convertitur in aliquid factâ conversione non manet . if then the substance of the elements doth not remain after consecration , by virtue of this total conversion , then the council of trent by its decree hath plainly determin'd the modus of the real presence , so as to exclude any such manner , as doth suppose , the substance to remain , whether it be by impanation or consubstantiation , or any other way . what if rupertus thought the bread might become the real body of christ by an union of the word to it ? all that can be infer'd is , that the modus was not then so determin'd , as to oblige all persons to hold it . but what is this to the council of trent ? can any one hold the substance to remain , and not to remain at the same time ? for , he that holds with rupertus must allow the substance to remain ; he that believes a total conversion must deny it . and he that can believe both these at once , may believe what he pleases . but the council only declares the sacramental presence to be after an ineffable manner . i say , it determines it to be by a total conversion of one substance into another ; which may well be said to be ineffable , since what cannot be understood can never be expressed . our dispute is not about the use of the word , transubstantiation , for i think it proper enough to express the sense of the council of trent ; but as the word consubstantial did exclude all other modes how christ might be the son of god , and determin'd the faith of the church to that manne● ; so doth the sense of transubstantiation , as determin'd by the council of trent , limit the manner of the real presence , to such a conversion of the substance of the elements into the substance of christ's body and blood , as doth imply no substance to remain after consecration . it is to no purpose to tell us , the council uses only the word species and not accidents ; for whatever they are called , the council denounces its anathema against those who hold the substance to remain after consecration ; and denies the total conversion of the substance of the bread and wine into the substance of the body and bloud of christ. if the substance be not there , the modus is to purpose determin'd . and whatever remains , call it what you will , it is not the substance ; and that is sufficient to shew , that the council of trent hath clearly determin'd the modus of the real presence . v. we must distinguish the school points left undetermin'd by the council of trent , from those which are made articles of faith. we never pretend , that it left no school-disputes about the points there determin'd ; but we say it went too far in making some school-points to be points of faith , when it had been more for the peace of christendom to have left them to the schools still . thus in the point of transubstantiation , the elder school-men tell us , there were different ways of explaining the real presence ; and that those , which supposed the substance to remain , were more agreeable to reason and scripture than the other ; and some were of opinion , that the modus was no matter of faith then . but after the point of the real presence came to be warmly contested in the time of berengarius , it rose by degrees higher and higher , till at last the particular modus came to be determin'd with an anathema by the council of trent . when berengarius , a. d. . was forced to recant by nicolaus d , with the assistance of . bishops ; no more was required of him , than to hold that the bread and wine after consecration ; are not only the sacrament , but the true body and bloud of christ , and that it is sensibly handled and broke by the priests hands , and eaten by the communicants . here is no denying the substance of bread to remain ; and joh. parisiensis observes , that the words cannot be defended but by an assumption of the bread ; for , saith he , if the body of christ be truely and sensibly handled and eaten , this cannot be understood of christ's glorious body in heaven , but it must be of the bread really made the body of christ after consecration . the sense which the canonists put upon the words of this recantation is absurd , viz. that they are to be understood of the species ; for berengarius his opinion related to the substance of christ's body which he denied to be in the sacrament . and what would it have signified for him to have said that christ was sensibly broken and eaten under the species of bread and wine ? i. e. that his body was not sensibly broken and eaten but the species were . it had signified something , if he had said , there was no substance of bread and wine left but only the species . but all the design of this recantation was to make him assert the sacrament to be made the true and real body of christ in as strong a manner , as the pope and his brethren could think of . and although the canonists think , if strictly taken , it implies greater heresie than that of berengarius ; yet by their favour , this form was only thought fit to be put into the canon-law , as the standard of the faith of the roman church then ; and the following abjuration of berengarius was only kept in the register of gregory the seventh's epistles . for about twenty years after by order of gregory vii . berengarius was brought to another abjuration , but by no means after the same form with the former . for by this he was required to declare , that the bread and wine are substantially converted into the true and proper flesh and bloud of christ , and after censecration are the true body of christ born of the virgin and sacrificed upon the cross , and that sits at the right hand of the father ; and the true bloud of christ which was shed out of his side , not only as a sacramental sign , but in propriety of nature and reality of substance . this was indeed a pretty bold assertion of the substantial presence . and so much the bolder , if the commentary on s. matthew be hildebrand's . for there he saith , the manner of the conversion is uncertain . but as far as i can judge , by substantial conversion he did not then mean , as the council of trent doth , a total conversion of one substance into another , so as that nothing of the former substance remains ; but that there was a change by consecration not by making the body of christ of the substance of the bread , but by its passing into that body of christ which was born of the virgin. for , upon comparing the two forms , there we shall find lies the main difference . pope nicolaus went no farther than to the true body of christ ; which it might be as well by assumption , as conversion ; gregory vii . went farther and thought it necessary to add that the change was into the substance of that body which was born of the virgin , &c. and so this second form excludes a true body merely by assumption , and asserts the change to be into the substance of christ's body in heaven ; but it doth not determine , that nothing of the substance of the elements doth remain . for when he puts that kind of substantial conversion which leaves nothing but the accidents , and the body of christ to be under them , which belonged to the substance of the elements ; he declares this matter to be uncertain . which shews , that however a change was owned into the substance of christ's body , yet such a total conversion , as is determined by the council of trent , was not then made an article of faith. but from this supposition made by hildebrand it appears , that the dectrine of substance and accidents was then well known ; and therefore the introducing aristotle's philosophy from the arabians afterwards could make no alteration in this matter . for the words of hildebrand are as plain as to the difference of substance and accidents , as of any of the school-men ; and that the accidents of the bread and wine might be separated from the substance of them ; but this was not then made a matter of faith ; as it was afterwards . but the case was remarkably alter'd , after the lateran council under innocent iii. for transubstantiation being admitted there among the articles of faith ; and so entred in the canon-law in the very beginning of the decretals ; this did not merely become a school-term , but by the inquisitors of that time , it was accounted heresie to deny it . it may be sufficiently proved by the school-men and canonists , that a difference of opinions , as to the modus did still continue , ( but that belongs to a more proper place ) and joh. parisiensis declares ( p. ) that the lateran council in his opinion did not make transubstantiation a point of faith ; or at least that substance was not to be taken for the matter , but the suppositum ; but the inquisitors went more briskly to work and made it downright ●●●●esie to assert , that the substance of the elements did remain after consecration . of this , we have full evidence in the register of courtney arch-bishop of canterbury , ( which is no invisible manuscript . ) for there we read f. . that he called a select convecation of bishops , divines and canonists , may . a. d. . to declare some propositions to be heretical , and s●me to be erroneous and contrary to the determination of the church . among the first , these two are set down in the first place , . that the material substance of the bread and wine doth remain in the sacrament of the altar after consecration . . that the accidents do not remain without their subject in that sacrament after consecration . after this the arch-bishop sent forth his mandate to all his suffragans not only to prohibit the preaching of that doctrine , but to inquire after those who did it . and june . robert rygge chancellour of oxford and thomas brightwall appeared before him and were examined upon these propositions ; which they declared to be heretical : who thereupon required the publication of them as such in the university ; and the proceeding against those who were suspected to favour them . the ground the arch-bishop went upon , was , that these had been already condemned by the church , and therefore ex abundanti , they declared them to be so condemned ; as appears by the monition given to robert rygge himself as too much suspected to favour the contrary doctrine ; as well as nicholas hereford , philip reppyndon d. d. and john ashton b. d. against these the arch-bishop proceeded as inquisitor haereticae pravitatis per totam suam provinciam , as it is in the record ; who appearing desired a copy of the several propositions , and then they were required to give in their judgment upon them . ashton refused , but the other promised , which they performed soon after ; and to these two propositions , their answers were , to the first that as far as it was contrary to the decretal , firmiter credimus , it was heresie . to the second that as far as it was contrary to the decretal , cum marthoe , it was heresie . these answers were judged insufficient , because they did not declare what that sense was and the arch-bishop put this question to them , whether the same numerical material bread which before consecration was set upon the altar , did remain in its proper substance and nature after consecration , but they would give no other answer at that time . but afterwards reppyndon abjured , and was made bishop of lincoln . from hence it appears , that it was then thought that the modus was so far determin'd by the lateran council , that the contrary doctrine was declared not merely erroneous in faith , but heretical . in the first convocation held by th. arundel arch-bishop of canterbury a. d. , a complaint was brought , that several divines and others of the university of oxford held some heretical and erroneous opinions ; the first whereof was , that the substance of bread doth remain after confecration ; and doth not cease to be bread ; which is there affirmed to be heresie , speaking of material bread. the second , that the court of rome in the can. ego berengarius , had determined that the sacrament of the eucharist is naturally true bread. it is very hard to say , how this came to be then accounted heretical doctrine , when no less a man than durandus in the same age affirms , that the canonists grant that the opinion of the ceasing of the substance was grounded on the can. firmiter credimus , i. e. on the lateran council ; but that of the remaining of the substance on that , ego , berengarius . but however it passed for heretical , or at least very erroneous doctrine here ; but the main heresie was to hold , that the substance remained . for a. d. . ( as appears by the register p. . f. . ) william sawtre alias chatris a parochial priest in london , was summoned before the same arch-bishop in convocation upon an information of heresie ; and one of the main articles against him was that he held the substance of the bread to remain in the sacrament of the altar after consecration ; and that it doth not cease to be bread. sawtre answered , that he believed , that after consecration the bread did remain with the body of christ ; but it doth not cease to be simply bread , but it remains holy and true the bread of life and body of christ. the arch bishop examined him chiefly upon this article ; and because he did not answer home to the point , he was condemned for a heretick , and was the first who was burned for heresie in england . and yet his answer was , that he could not understand the matter ; then the arch-bishop asked him , if he would stand to the churches determination ; he said , he would so far as it was not contrary to the will of god. upon which he was declared an heretick and delivered over to the secular power . in the same convocation john purvey made an abjuration of heresie , and the first he renounced was that after consecration in the sacrament of the altar , there neither is , nor can be an accident without a subject , and that the same substance and nature of bread remained which was before . in the examination of william thorp by thomas arundel , arch-bishop of canterbury a. d. . ( which is not in the register being defective , but the account is preserved from his own copy ) the arch-bishop declared , that the church had now determined , that there abideth no substance of bread after consecration in the sacrament of the altar . and that if he believed otherwise he did not believe as the church believed . thorp quoted s. augustin and fulgentius to prove that the substance remained ; and the very mass on christmas day . the arch-bishop still pressed him with the churches determination . thorp said this was a school-nicety whether accidents could be without a subject ; no , said the arch-bishop , it is the faith of the church i go upon . thorp replyed , it was not so for a thousand years after christ. in the examination of the lord cobham a. d. . by the same arch-bishop we find that he owned the real presence of christ's body as firmly as his accusers ; but he was condemned for heresie , because he held the substance of bread to remain . for the arch-bishop declared this to be the sense of the church ; that after consecration , remaineth no material bread or wine which were before , they being turned into christ's very body and bloud . the original words of the arch-bishop as they are in the register , are these . the faith and the determination of holy church touching the blestfull sacrament of the auter is this , that after the sacramental words ben said by a prest in his masse , the material bred that was before is turned into christ's veray body . and the material wyn that was before is turned into christ veray blode , and so there leweth in the auter , no material brede ne material wyn the wich wer ther byfore the saying of the sacramental words . and the bishops afterwards stood up and said ; it is manifest heresie to say that it is bread after the sacramental words be spoken ; because it was against the determination of holy church . but to make all sure , not many years after , may th . a. d. . the council of constance session . declared the two propositions before mentioned to be heretical ; viz. to hold that the substance doth remain after consecration , and that the accidents do not remain without a subject . let any impartial reader now judge , whether it be any fatal oversight to assert , that the modus of the real presence was determin'd by the council of trent , when there were so many leading determinations to it , which were generally owned and received in the church of rome . but there were other disputes remaining in the schools relating to this matter ; which we do not pretend were ever determin'd by the council of trent . as , ( . ) whether the words of consecration are to be understood in a speculative or practical sense ? for , the scotists say , in the former sense , they do by no means prove transubstantiation ; since it may be truly said this is my body , though the substance of bread do remain ; and that they are to be understood in a practical sense , i. e. for converting the bread into the body , is not to be deduced ex vi verborum , from the mere force of the words , but from the sense of the church which hath so understood them . which in plain terms is to say , it cannot be proved from scripture , but from the sense of the church ; and so scotus doth acknowledge , but then he adds , that we are to judge this to be the sense of scripture , because the church hath declared it . which he doth not think was done before the council of lateran . so that , this council must be believed to have had as infallible a spirit in giving this sense of scripture as there was in the writing of it ; since it is not drawn from the words , but added to them . on the other side , the thomists insist on the force of the words themselves ; for , if , say they , from the words be infer'd that there is a real presence of the substance of christ's body , then it follows thence , that there is no substance of the bread remaining ; for a substance cannot be where it was not before , but it must either change its place , or another must be turned into it ; as fire in a house must either be brought thither , or some other thing must be turned into fire ; but , say they , the body of christ cannot be brought from heaven thither , for then it must leave the place it had there ; and must pass through all the bodies between ; and it is impossible for the same body to be locally present in several places ; and therefore the body of christ cannot otherwise be really and substantially present , but by the conversion of the substance of the bread into it . ( . ) in what manner the body of christ is made to be present in the sacrament ? the scotists say , it is impossible to conceive it otherwise than by bringing it from the place where it already is ; the thomists say that is impossible , since that body must be divided from it self by so many other bodies interposing . the former is said to be an adductive conversion , the latter a productive ; but then here lies another difficulty , how there can be a productive conversion of a thing already in being . but my business is not to give an account of these school-disputes ; but to shew how different they were from the point of tranfubslantiation ; and that both these disputing parties did agree that the modus of the real presence was defined to be by changing the substance of the elements into the body and blood of christ ; but they still warmly disputed about the modus of that modus ; viz. how a body already in being could be present in so many places without leaving that place where it was already . and no man who hath ever look'd into these school disputes can ever imagine that they disputed about the truth of the doctrine of transubstantiation , but only about the manner of explaining it . wherein they do effectually overthrow each others notions without being able to establish their own ; as the elector of cologn truly observed of their debates about this matter in the council of trent . vi. where the sense of words hath been changed by the introducing new doctrine , there the words ought to be understood according to the doctrine at that time received . of this we have two remarkable instances in the council of trent ; the first is about indulgences , which that council in its last session never went about to define ; but made use of the old word , and so declares both scripture and antiquity for the use of them . but there had been a mighty change in the doctrine about them , since the word was used in the christian church . no doubt there was a power in the church to relax canonical penances in extraordinary cases ; but what could that signifie when the canonical discipline was laid aside , and a new method of dealing with penitents was taken up , and another trade driven with respect to purgatory pains ? for here was a new thing carried on under an old name . and that hath been the great artifice of the roman church ; where it hath evidently gone off from the old doctrines , yet to retain the old names , that the unwary might still think , the things were the same , because the names were . as in the present case , we deny not the use of indulgences in the primitive church ; as the word was used for relaxations of the canonical discipline ; but we utterly deny it as to the pains of purgatory . and that this was the sense then receiv'd in the church of rome , appears from the papal constitutions of bon face the th , clemens the th , and leo the th . but of these more hereafter . the other instance is in the word species used by the council of trent , sess. . can. . where an anathema is denounced against him that denies the conversion of the whole substance of the elements into the body and blood of christ , the species of bread and wine only remaining . now a controversie hath been started in the church of rome , what is to be understood by species , whether real accidents or only appearances . some of the church of rome who have had a tast of the new philosophy , reject any real accidents , and yet declare transubstantiation to be a matter of faith , and go about to explain the notion of it in another manner . among these one emanuel maignan , a professor of divinity at tholouse , hath at large undertaken this matter . the method he takes is this . ( . ) he grants , that nothing remains of the bread after consecration , but that whereby it was an object of sense ; because that which is really the being of one thing cannot be the being of another . and he confesses that the modus as to the not being of the substance after consecration , is determin'd by the councils of constance and trent . ( . ) he asserts , that real accidents , supposing them separable from the substance , are not that whereby the elements are made the objects of sense ; because they do not make the conjunction between the object and the faculty . ( . ) since he denies , that accidents have any real being distinct from the substance they are in , he grants , that it is as much a matter of faith , that there are no real accidents after consecration , as that there is no real substance ; and he brings the authorities of the councils of lateran , florence and trent to prove it . ( . ) as the substance did by divine concourse so act upon the senses before , as to make it be an object of sense ; so after consecration , god by his immediate act makes the same appearances , although the substance be gone . and this , he saith , is the effect of this miraculous conversion , which is concealed from our senses , by god's immediate causing the very same appearances , which came before from the substance . which appearances , he saith , are the species mention'd by the council of trent ; and other elder councils and fathers . against this new hypothesis , a famous jesuit , theophilus raynaudus , opposed himself with great vehemency ; and urged these arguments against it . ( . ) that it overthrows the very nature of a sacrament , leaving no external visible sign ; but a perpetual illusion of the senses , in such a manner , that the error of one cannot be corrected by another . ( . ) that it overthrows the design of the sacrament , which is to be true and proper food . my flesh is meat indeed , &c. john . which , he saith , is to be understood of the sacrament , as well as of the body of christ , and therefore cannot agree with an imaginary appearance . ( . ) it is not consistent with the accidents which befall the sacramental species , as to be trod under foot , to be cast into indecent places , to be devoured by brutes , to be putrified , &c. if the body of christ withdraws , there must be something beyond mere appearances . ( . ) he makes this doctrine to be heretical , because the council of constance condemned it as an heretical proposition , to affirm , that in the eucharist accidents do not remain without their subject ; and because the council of trent uses the word species in the sense then generally received , and so it signified the same with accidents . which , saith he , farther appears , because the council speaks of the species remaining ; but if there be no real accidents , the species doth not remain in the object ; but a new appearance is produced . and it seems most reasonable to interpret the language of the council according to the general sense wherein the words were understood at that time . vii . what things were disputed and opposed by some in the council , without being censured for it , although they were afterwards decreed by a major party , yet cannot be said to have been there received by a catholick tradition . because matters of faith which have been universally received in the church , can never be supposed to be contested in a council without censure ; but if it appears that there were heats and warm debates among the parties in the council it self , and both think they speak the sense of the catholick church ; then we must either allow that there was then no known catholick tradition about those matters , or that the divines of the church of rome assembled in council did not understand what it was . and what happens to be decreed by a majority , can never be concluded from thence to have been the tradition before , because there was a different sense of others concerning it . and since in a division , a single person may make a majority , it will be very hard to believe , that he carries infallibility and catholick tradition along with him . but i think it reasonable in the enquiry after catholick tradition to take notice of the different opinions in the council ; and among the school-men before it ; and not only to observe , what was the sense of the roman church , but of the eastern churches too ; and where the matter requires it , to go through the several ages of the church up to the apostolical times ; that i may effectually prove , that in the main points in controversie between us , which are established by the council of trent , there cannot be produced any catholick and apostolical tradition for them . the contents . some postulata about catholick tradition , page . i. point examined about traditions being a rule of faith equal with scriptures , . the sense of the council of trent concerning it , . no. catholick tradition for it shew'd from the differences about it in the council , . from the divines of the roman church for some ages before the council , . the testimonies of the canon law against it , . of the ancient offices of the roman church , . of the fathers , . the first step of traditions being set up as a rule by the second council of nice , . not receiv'd as a rule of faith till after the council of lateran under innocent iii. . the occasion of it set down from new points of faith there determin'd , . never established for a rule till the council of trent , . ii. about the canon of scripture defined by the council of trent , . the sense of the council , ibid. the difference there about it , . a constant tradition against it in the eastern church . . no catholick tradition for it in the western church , . the several steps as to the alteration of the canon set down , . the different meaning of apocryphal writings , . iii. about the free use of the scripture in the vulgar language prohibited by the council of trent , . the sense of the council , ibid. no catholick tradition about this proved from the writers of the roman church , . the general consent of the catholick church against it proved from the ancient translations into valgar languages , . the first occasion of the scriptures being in an unknown language , . the first prohibition by gregory vii . . continued by the inquisition after innocent iii. . iv. about the merit of good works , . the sense of true merit cleared from the divines of the church of rome , ibid. no catholick tradition for it proved from ancient offices , . from provincial councils and eminent divines in several ages before the council of trent , . the several steps how the doctrine of merit came in , . v. of the number of sacraments , . an appeal to tradition for . years for seven sacraments examin'd and disprov'd , . as to chrism , . as to drders , . as to penance , . as to extreme-unction , . as to patrimony , . the sense of the greek church about the seven sacraments , . the sense of other eastern churches , . when the number of seven sacraments came first in , . the particular occasions of them , . vi. of auricular confession , . no catholick tradition confessed by their own writers , . > the several steps and occasions of introducing it , at large set down , . the difference between the ancient discipline and modern confession , . of voluntary confession , . of the penitentiaries office , . publick discipline not taken away at constantinople when the penitentiary was removed , . proved from s. chrysostom , . publick penance for publick sins , . private confession came in upon the decay of the ancient discipline , . the council of trent examined and disproved , &c. there are two things designed by me in this treatise , . to shew that there is no such thing as universal tradition for the main points in controversie between us and the church of rome , as they are determined by the council of trent . . to give an account by what steps and degrees , and on what occasion those doctrines and practices came into the church . but before i come to particulars , i shall lay down some reasonable postulata . . that a catholick tradition must be universally received among the sound members of the catholick church . . that the force of tradition lies in the certainty of conveyance of matters of faith from the apostolical times . for no new doctrines being pretended to , there can be no matter of faith in any age of the church , but what was so in the precedent and so up to the apostles times . . that it is impossible to suppose the divines of the catholick church to be ignorant , what was in their own time received for catholick tradition . for , if it be so hard for others to mistake it , it will be much more so for those whose business is to enquire into , and to deliver matters of faith. these things premised , i now enter upon the points themselves ; and i begin with , i. traditions being a rule of faith equal with scriptures . this is declared by the council of trent , as the groundwork of their proceedings . the words are sess. . that the council receives traditions both as to faith and manners , either delivered by christ himself with his own mouth , or dictated by the holy ghost , and preserved in the catholick church by a continual succession with equal piety of affection and reverence as the proofs of holy scripture . where the council first supposes there are such traditions from christ and the holy ghost distinct from scripture which relate to faith ; and then it declares equal respect and veneration due to them . no one questions but the word of christ and dictates of the holy ghost deserve equal respect , howsoever conveyed to us ; but the point is , whether there was a catholick tradition before this time for an unwritten word , as a foundation of faith , together with the written word . . it is therefore impertinent here to talk of a tradition before the written word ; for our debate is concerning both being joined together to make a perfect rule of faith : and yet this is one of the common pleas on behalf of tradition . . it is likewise impertinent to talk of that tradition whereby we do receive the written word . for the council first supposes the written word to be received and embraced as the word of god , before it mentions the unwritten word ; and therefore , it cannot be understood concerning that tradition whereby we receive the scriptures . and the council affirms , that the truth of the gospel is contained partly in books that are written , and partly in unwritten traditions . by the truth of the gospel they cannot mean the scriptures being the word of god , but that the word was contained partly in scripture and partly in tradition ; and it is therefore impertinent to urge the tradition for scripture to prove tradition to be part of the rule of faith , as it is here owned by the council of trent . . the council doth not here speak of a traditionary sense of scripture , but of a distinct rule of faith from the scripture . for of that it speaks afterwards in the decree about the use of the scripture ; where it saith , no man ought to interpret scripture against the sense of the church to whom it belongs to judge of the true sense and meaning of scripture , nor against the unanimous consent of the fathers . whereby it is evident , the council is not to be understood of any consequences drawn out of scripture concerning things not expresly contained in it ; but it clearly means an unwritten word distinct from the written , and not contained in it , which , together with that , makes up a complete rule of faith. this being the true sense of the council , i now shew that there was no catholick tradition for it . which i shall prove by these steps : . from the proceedings of the council it self . . from the testimony of the divines of that church before the council for several centuries . . from the canon law received and allowed in the church of rome . . from the ancient offices used in that church . . from the testimony of the fathers . . from the proceedings of the council about this matter . by the postulata it appears , that the catholick tradition is such as must be known by the sound members of the church , and especially of the divines in it . but it appears by the most allowed histories of that council , this rule of faith was not so received there . for cardinal pallavicini tells us that it was warmly debated and canvassed even by the bishops themselves . the bishop of fano ( bertanus ) urged against it , that god had not given equal firmness to tradition as he had done to scripture , since several traditions had failed . but the bishop of bitonto ( mussus ) opposed him and said , though all truths were not to be equally regarded , yet every word of god ought , and traditions as well as scripture were the word of god , and the first principles of faith ; and the greater part of the council followed him . it seems then there was a division in the council about it ; but how could that be if there were a catholick tradition about this rule of faith ? could the bishops of the catholick church , when assembled in council to determine matters of faith , be no better agreed about the rule of faith ; and yet must we believe there was at that time a known catholick tradition about it , and that it was impossible they should err about such a tradition ? nay farther , the same authour tells us , that although this bishop had gained the greatest part of the council to him , yet his own heart misgave him , and in the next congregation himself proposed , that instead of equal it might be put a like veneration ; and yet we must believe there was a catholick tradition for an equal veneration to scripture and tradition . but the bishop of chioza , ( naclantus ) he saith , inveighed more bitterly against this equality , and in the face of the council charged the doctrine with impiety ; and he would not allow any divine inspiration to tradition , but that they were to be considered onely as laws of the church . it 's true , he saith he professed to consent to the decree afterwards , but withall he tells us , that he was brought under the inquisition not long after , upon suspicion of heresie ; which shews they were not well satisfied with his submission . we are extremely beholden to cardinal pallavicini for his information in these matters , which are past over too jejunely by f. paul. . i proceed to the testimony of the divines of the roman church before the council of trent . it is observed by some of them , that when the fathers appealed to the tradition of the church in any controverted point of faith , they made their appeal to those who wrote before the controversie was started ; as s. augustin did against the pelagians , &c. this is a reasonable method of proceeding , in case tradition be a rule of faith : and therefore must be so even in this point , whether tradition be such a rule or not . for the divines who wrote before could not be ignorant of the rule of faith they received among themselves . gabriel biel lived in the latter end of the th century , and he affirms , that the scripture alone teaches all things necessary to salvation ; and he instances in the things to be done and to be avoided , to be loved and to be despised , to be believed and to be hoped for . and again , that the will of god is to be understood by the scriptures , and by them alone we know the whole will of god. if the whole will of god were to be known by the scripture , how could part of it be preserved in an unwritten tradition ? and if this were then part of the rule of faith , how could such a man , who was professour of divinity at tubing be ignorant of it ? i know he saith he took the main of his book from the lectures of eggelingus , in the cathedral church at mentz ; but this adds greater strength to the argument , since it appears hereby that this doctrine was not confined to the schools , but openly delivered in one of the most famous churches of germany . cajetan died not above years before the council , who agrees with this doctrine of biel or eggelingus ( and he was accounted the oracle of his time for divinity ) for he affirms that the scripture gives such a perfection to a man of god ( or one that devoutly serves him ) that thereby he is accomplished for every good work ; how can this be , if there be another rule of faith quite distinct from the written word ? bellarmin indeed grants , that all things which are simply necessary to the salvation of all , are plainly contained in scripture , by which he yields , that the scripture alone is the rule of faith as to necessary points ; and he calls the scripture the certain and stable rule of faith , yea the most certain and most secure rule . if there be then any other , it must be less certain and about points not necessary to salvation ; i. e. it must be a rule where there is no need of a rule . for if mens salvation be sufficiently provided for , by the written rule ; and the divine revelation , be in order to mens salvation , what need any other revelation to the church , besides what is written ? he asserts farther , that nothing is de fide , but what god hath revealed to the prophets and apostles , or is deduced from thence . this he brings to prove that whatsoever was received as a matter of faith in the church , which is not found in scripture must have come from an apostolical tradition . but if it be necessary to salvation , according to his own concession it must be written ; and if it be not , how comes it to be received as a matter of faith ? unless it be first proved , that it is necessary to salvation to receive an unwritten rule of faith , as well as a written ? for , either it must be necessary on its own account , and then he saith it must be written ; and if not , then it can be no otherwise necessary than because it is to be believed on the account of a rule , which makes it necessary . and consequently that rule must be first proved to be a necessary article of faith : which bellarmin hath no where done ; but onely sets down rules about knowing true apostolical traditions from others in matters of faith , wherein he wisely supposes that which he was to prove . and the true occasion of setting up this new rule of faith is intimated by bellarmin himself in his first rule of judging true apostolical traditions . which is , when the church believes any thing as a doctrine of faith which is not in scripture , then saith he , we must judge it to be an apostolical tradition . why so ? otherwise the church must have erred in taking that for a matter of faith which was not . and this is the great secret about this new rule of faith ; they saw plainly several things were imposed on the faith of christians , which could not be proved from scripture ; and they must not yield they had once mistaken , and therefore this new , additional less certain rule for unnecessary points must be advanced , although they wanted tradition among themselves to prove tradition a rule of faith , which i shall now farther make appear from their own school divines before the council of trent . we are to observe among them what those are which they strictly call theological truths , and by them we shall judge , what they made the rule of faith. for , they do not make a bare revelation to any person a sufficient ground for faith ; but they say * the revelation must be publick , and designed for the general benefit of the church ; and so aquinas determines † that our faith rests onely upon the revelations made to the prophets and apostles ; and theological truths are such as are immediately deduced from the principles of faith , i. e. from publick divine revelations owned and received by the church . the modern school men , ‖ who follow the council of trent make theological truths to be deduced from the unwritten as well as the written word ; or else they would not speak consonantly to their own doctrine . and therefore if those before them deduce theological truths onely from the written word , then it will follow that they did not hold the unwritten word to be a rule of faith. marsilius ab inghen was first professor of divinity of heidelberg ( at the latter end of the th century saith bellarmin , but trithemius saith the th ) and he determines , that a theological proposition is that which is positively asserted in scripture or deduced from thence by good consequence ; and that a theological truth strictly taken is the truth of an article of faith , or something expressed in the bible , or deduced from thence . he mentions apostolical traditions afterwards , and joins them with ecclesiastical histories and martyrologies . so far was he from supposing them to be part of the rule of faith. in the beginning of the th century lived petrus de alliaco , one as famous for his skill in divinity , as for his dignity in the church , he saith , that theological discourse is founded on scripture , and a theological proof must be drawn from thence ; that theological principles are the truths contained in the canon of scripture ; and conclusions are such as are drawn out of what is contained in scripture . so that he not onely makes the scripture the foundation of faith , but of all sorts of true reasoning about it . he knew nothing of cardinal palavicini's two first principles of faith. to the same purpose speaks gregorius ariminensis , about the middle of the th century he saith , all theological discourse is grounded on scripture and the consequences from it ; which he not onely proves from testimony , but ex communi omnium conceptione , from the general consent of christians . for , saith he , all are agreed that then a thing is proved theologically , when it is proved from the words of scripture . so that here we have plain tradition , against traditions being a distinct rule of faith , and this delivered by the general of an order in the church of rome . he affirms that the principles of theology , are no other than the truths contained in the canon of scripture ; and that the resolution of all theological discourse is into them ; and that there can be no theological conclusion , but what is drawn from scripture . in the former part of that century lived darandus , he gives a threesold sense of theology . . for a habit whereby we assent to those things which are contained in scripture , as they are there delivered . . for a habit whereby those things are ●efended and declared which are delivered in scripture . . for a habit of those things which are deduced out of articles of faith ; and so it is all one with the holy scripture . and in another place he affirms , that all truth is contained in the holy scripture at large ; but for the people's conveniency the necessary points are summed up in the apostles creed . in his preface before his book on the sentences he highly commends the scriptures for their dignity , their usefulness , their certainty , their depth ; and after all concludes , that in matters of faith men ought to speak agreeably to the scriptures ; and whosoever doth not , breaks the rule of the scriptures , which he calls the measure of our faith. what tradition did appear then for another rule of faith in the th century ? but before i proceed higher i shall shew the consent of others with these school divines in the three last centuries before the council of trent . in the middle of the th lived nicholaus panormitanus , one of mighty reputation for his skill in the canon law. in the ch. significâsti prima . . de electione , debating the authority of pope and council , he saith , if the pope hath better reason his authority is greater than the councils ; and if any private person in matters of faith hath better reason out of scripture than the pope , his saying is to be preferred above the pope's . which words do plainly shew , that the scripture was then looked on as the onely rule of faith ; or else no man's grounding himself on scripture could make his doctrine to be preferred before the pope's ; who might alledge tradition against him , and if that were an equal rule of faith , the doctrine of one rule could not be preferred before the other . at the same time lived tostatus the famous bishop of avila , one of infinite industry and great judgment , and therefore could not be mistaken in the rule of faith. in his preface on genesis he saith , that there must be a rule for our understandings to be regulated by , and that rule must be most certain ; that divine faith is the most certain ; and that is contained in scripture , and therefore we must regulate our understandings thereby . and this he makes to be the measure of truth and falshood . if he knew any other rule of faith besides the scriptures , he would have mentioned it in this place ; and not have directed men onely to them , as the exact measure of truth and falshood . in the beginning of this century thomas walden ( confessor to our henry th , saith trithemius , ) disputed sharply against wickliff ; but he durst not set up the churches authority or tradition equal with the scriptures . for when he mentions tradition after scriptures , he utterly disclaims any such thought as that of equality between them ; but he desires a due distance may be kept between canonical scripture and ecclesiastical authority or tradition . in the first place he saith , we ought to believe the holy scriptures ; then the definitions and customs of the catholick church ; but he more fully explains himself in another place , where he plainly asserts , that nothing else is to be received by such faith as the scripture and christ's symbolical church ; but for all other authorities , the lowest degree is that of catholick tradition , the next of the bishops , especially of the apostolical churches , and the roman in the first place ; and above all these he places that of a general council ; but when he hath so done , he saith , all these authorities are to be regarded but as the instructions of elders , and admonitions of fathers . so that the chief opposers of wickliff had not yet found out this new rule of faith. much about the same time lived joh. gerson , whom cardinal zabarella declared , in the council of constance , to be the greatest divine of his time , and therefore could not be ignorant of the true rule of faith. he agrees with panormitan in this , that if a man be well skilled in scriptures , his doctrine deserves more to be regarded than the pope's declaration ; for , saith he , the gospel is more to be believed than the pope , and if such a one teaches a doctrine to be contained in scripture , which the pope either knows not or mistakes , it is plain whose judgment is to be preferred . nay , he goes farther , that if in a general council he finds the majority incline to that part which is contrary to scripture , he is bound to oppose it , and he instances in hilary . and he shews , that since the canon of scripture received by the church , no authority of the church is to be equalled to it . he allows a judgment of discretion in private persons , and a certainty of the literal sense of scripture attainable thereby . he makes the scripture the onely standing infallible rule of faith for the whole church to the end of the world . and whatever doctrine is not agreeable thereto , is to be rejected either as heretical , suspicious , or impertinent to religion . if the council of trent had gone by this rule , we had never heard of the creed of pius iv. in the beginning of the th century lived nicolaus de lyra , who parallels the scriptures in matters of faith with first-principles in sciences ; for as other truths are tried in them by their reduction to first-principles , so in matters of faith by their reduction to canonical scriptures , which are of divine revelation , which is impossible to be false . if he had known any other principles which would have made faith impossible to be false , he would never have spoken thus of scripture alone . but to return to the school divines . about the same time lived joh. duns scotus , the head of a school , famous for subtilty ; he affirms , that the holy scripture doth sufficiently contain all matters necessary to salvation ; because by it we know what we are to believe , hope for , and practise . and after he hath enlarged upon them , he concludes in these words , patet quod scriptura sacra sufficienter continet doctrinam necessariam viatori . if this be understood onely of points simply necessary , then however it proves , that all such things necessary to salvation are therein contained ; and no man is bound to enquire after unnecessary points . how then can it be necessary to embrace another rule of faith , when all things necessary to salvation are sufficiently contained in scripture ? but thomas aquinas is more express in this matter ; for he saith , that those things which depend on the will of god , and are above any desert of ours , can be known no otherways by us , than as they are delivered in scriptures by the will of god , which is made known to us . this is so remarkable a passage , that suarez could not let it escape without corrupting it ; for instead of scripture he makes him to speak of divine revelation in general , viz. under scripture he comprehends all ; that is , under the written word he means the unwritten . if he had meant so , he was able to have expressed his own mind more plainly ; and cajetan apprehended no such meaning in his words , but this is a matter of so great consequence , that i shall prove from other passages in him , that he asserted the same doctrine , viz. that the scripture was the onely rule of faith. . he makes no proofs of matters of faith to be sufficient but such as are deduced from scripture ; and all other arguments from authority to be onely probable ; nay although such persons had particular revelations . how can this be consistent with another rule of faith distinct from scripture ? for if he had owned any such , he must have deduced necessary arguments from thence , as well as from canonical scriptures . but if all other authorities be onely probable , then they cannot make any thing necessary to be believed . . he affirms , that to those who receive the scriptures we are to prove nothing but by the scriptures , as matter of faith. for by authorities he means nothing but the scriptures ; as appears by the former place , and by what follows , where he mentions the canon of scripture expresly . . he asserts that the articles of the creed are all contained in scripture , and are drawn out of scripture , and put together by the church onely for the ease of the people . from hence it nenessarily follows that the reason of believing the articles of the creed , is to be taken from the written word and not from any unwritten tradition . for else he needed not to have been so carefull to shew , that they were all taken out of scripture . . he distinguisheth the matters of faith in scripture , some to be believed for themselves , which he calls prima credibilia ; these he saith every one is bound explicitly to believe ; but for other things he is bound onely implicitly , or in a preparation of mind , to believe whatever is contained in scripture ; and then onely is he bound to believe explicitly when it is made clear to him to be contained in the doctrine of faith. which words must imply the scripture to be the onely rule of faith ; for otherwise implicit faith , must relate to whatever is proved to be an unwritten word . from all this it appears that aquinas knew nothing of a traditional rule of faith ; although he lived after the lateran council a. d. . being born about nine years after it . and bonaventure , who died the same year with him , affirms , that nothing was to besaid , ( about matters of faith ) but what is made clear out of the holy scriptures . not long after them lived henricus gandavensis ; and he delivers these things which are very material to our purpose . . that the reason why we believe the guides of the church since the apostles , who work no miracles , is , because they preach nothing but what they have left in their most certain writings , which are delivered down to us pure and uncorrupt by an universal consent of all that succeeded to our times . where we see he makes the scriptures to be the onely certain rule , and that we are to judge of all other doctrines by them . . that truth is more certainly preserved in scripture than in the church ; because that is fixed and immutable , and men are variable , so that multitudes of them may depart from the faith , either through errour or malice ; but the true church will always remain in some righteous persons . how then can tradition be a rule of faith equal with scriptures , which depends upon the testimony of persons who are so very fallible ? i might carry this way of testimony on higher still , as when richardus de s. victore saith , in the thirteenth century , that every truth is suspected by him , which is not confirmed by holy scripture ; but in stead of that i shall now proceed to the canon law , as having more authority than particular testimonies . . as to the canon law collected by gratian , i do not insist upon its confirmation by eugenius , but upon its universal reception in the church of rome . and from thence i shall evidently prove that tradition was not allowed to be a rule of faith equal with the scriptures . dist. . c. , , , , , , . the authority and infallibility of the holy scripture is asserted above all other writings whatsoever ; for all other writings are to be examined , and men are to judge of them as they see cause . now bellarmin tells us , that the unwritten word is so called , not that it always continues unwritten , but that it was so by the first authour of it . so that the unwritten word doth not depend on mere oral tradition , according to him , but it may be found in the writers of the church ; but the canon law expresly excludes all other writings , let them contain what they will , from being admitted to any competition with canonical scripture ; and therefore according to that , no part of the rule of faith was contained in any other than canonical scriptures . dist. . c. relatum , a man is supposed to have an entire and firm rule of faith in the scriptures . caus. . q. . c. nec sufficere , the scriptures are said to be the onely rule both of faith and life . and the gloss on the canon law there owns the scripture to be the rule for matters of faith ; but very pleasantly applies it to the clergy , and thinks images enough for the laity . caus. . q. . c. non afferentes . the scriptures are acknowledged to be the true balance ; and that we are not so much to weigh what we find there , as to own what we find there already weighed . which must imply the scripture alone to be that measure we are to trust to . dist. . c. , , , , , . it is there said , that custome must yield to truth and reason , when that is discovered , and that for this reason , because christ said , i am truth and not custome . now , if tradition be an infallible rule of faith , custome ought always to be presumed to have truth and reason of its side . for , if we can once suppose a custome to prevail in the church against truth and reason , it is impossible that tradition should be infallible ; for what is that but ancient custome ? caus. . q. . c. . si is qui proeest . if any one commands what god hath forbidden , or forbids what god hath commanded , he is to be accursed of all that love god. and if he requires any thing besides the will of god , or what god hath evidently required in scripture , he is to be looked on as a false witness of god , and a sacrilegious person . how can this be , if there be another infallible way of conveying the will of god besides the scriptures ? caus. . q. . c. . c. quid autem . in matters of doubt it is said that men are to fly to the written word for satisfaction , and that it is folly not to doe it . it is true , mens own fancies are opposed to scripture , but against mens fancies no other rule is mentioned but that of the written word . joh. . extravag . c. quia quorundam . tit. . makes his appeal to scripture in the controversie then on foot about use and property ; dicunt nobis ubi legunt , &c. and he shews that if it were a matter of faith , it must be contained in scripture , either expresly or by reduction ; otherwise the scripture would be no certain rule ; and by consequence , the articles of faith which are proved by scripture , would be rendred doubtfull and uncertain . the glosser there saith , whence comes this consequence ? and refers to another place ; where he makes it out thus ; that faith can onely be proved by the scripture , and therefore if the authority of that be destroy'd , faith would be taken away . the roman editors for an antidote refer to cardinal turrecremata , who doth indeed speak of catholick truths , which are not to be found in the canon of scripture ; and he quotes a passage in the canon law for it under the name of alex. . c. cum marthoe extrav . de celebr . missae . but in truth it is innoc. . decretal . l. . tit. . and yet this will not prove what he aims at ; for the question was about the authour of the words added in the eucharist to those of christ's institution ; and he pleads that many of christ's words and actions are omitted by the evangelists , which the apostles afterwards set down ; and he instances in saint paul , as to those words of christ , it is more blessed to give than to receive ; and elsewhere . but what is all this to catholick truths not being contained in scripture either in words or by consequence ? the cardinal was here very much to seek , when he had nothing but such a testimony as this to produce in so weighty and so new a doctrine . the best argument he produces is , a horrible blunder of gratian's , where s. augustin seems to reckon the decretal epistles equal with the scriptures , dist. . c. in canonicis ; which the roman correctors were ashamed of , and consess that s. augustin speaks onely of canonical epistles in scripture . so hard must they strain , who among christians would set up any other rule equal with the written word . . i proceed to prove this from the ancient offices of the roman church . in the office produced by morinus out of the vatican ms. which he saith was very ancient ; the bishop before his consecration was asked , if he would accommodate all his prudence , to the best of his skill , to the sense of holy scripture ? resp. yes , i will with all my heart consent , and obey it in all things . inter. wilt thou teach the people by word and example , the things which thou learnest out of holy scriptures ? resp. i will. and then immediately follows the examen about manners . in another old office of s. victor's , there are the same questions in the same manner . and so in another of the church of rouen lately produced by mabillon , which he saith was about william the conquerour's time , there is not a word about traditions ; which crept into the ordo romanus , and from thence hath been continued in the roman pontificals . but it is observable , that the ordo romanus owns that the examen was originally taken out of the gallican offices , ( although it does not appear in those imperfect ones lately published at rome by th●masius ) and therefore we may justly suspect that the additional questions about traditions were the roman interpolations , after it came to be used in that pontifical . and the first office in morinus was the true ancient gallican office. but if tradition had been then owned as a rule of faith , it ought no more to have been omitted in the ancient offices than in the modern . and the ancient writers about ecclesiastical offices speak very agreeably to the most ancient offices about this matter . amalarius saith the gospel is the fountain of wisedom ; and that the preachers ought to prove the evangelical truth out of the sacred books . isidore , that we ought to think nothing ( as to matters of faith ) but what is contained in the two testaments . rabanus maurus , that the knowledge of the scriptures is the foundation and perfection of prudence , that truth and wisedom are to be tried by them ; and the perfect instruction of life is contained in them . our venerable bede agrees with them , when he saith , that the true teachers take out of the scriptures of the old and new testament that which they preach : and therefore have their minds imploy'd in finding out the true meaning of them . . i now come to the fathers ; wherein i am in great measure prevented by a late discourse , wherein it is at large shewed that the fathers made use of no other rule but the scriptures for deciding controversies ; therefore i shall take another method , which is to shew that those who do speak most advantageously of tradition , did not intend to set up another rule of faith distinct from scripture . and here i shall pass over all those testimonies of fathers which speak either of tradition before the canon of scripture , or to those who did not receive it , or of the tradition of scripture it self , or of some rites and customs of the church , as wholly impertinent . and when these are cut off , there remain scarce any to be considered , besides that of vincentius lerinensis , and one testimony of s. basil. i begin with vincentius lerinensis , who by some is thought so great a favourer of tradition ; but he saith not a word of it as a rule of faith distinct from scripture ; for he asserts the canon of scripture to be sufficient of it self for all things . how can that be , if tradition be a rule of faith distinct from it ? he makes indeed catholick tradition the best interpreter of scripture ; and we have no reason to decline it in the points in dispute between us , if vincentius his rules be follow'd . . if antiquity , universality and consent be joyned . . if the difference be observed between old errours and new ones . for , saith he , when they had length of time , truth is more easily concealed , by those who are concerned to suppress it . and in those cases we have no other way to deal with them , but by scripture and ancient councils . and this is the rule we profess to hold to . but to suppose any one part of the church to assume to it self the title of catholick , and then to determine what is to be held for catholick tradition by all members of the catholick church , is a thing in it self unreasonable , and leaves that part under an impossibility of being reclaimed . for in case the corrupt part be judge , we may be sure no corruptions will be ever owned . vincentius grants that arianism had once extremely the advantage in point of universality , and had many councils of its side ; if now the prevailing party be to judge of catholick tradition , and all are bound to submit to its decrees without farther examination , as the authour of the guide in controversies saith upon these rules of vincentius ; then i say all men were then bound to declare themselves arians . for if the guides of the present church are to be trusted and relied upon for the doctrine of the apostolical church downwards ; how was it possible for any members of the church then to oppose arianism , and to reform the church after its prevalency ? to say it was condemned by a former council , doth by no means clear the difficulty ; for the present guides must be trusted , whether they were rightly condemned or not ; and nothing can be more certain , than that they would be sure to condemn those who condemned them . but vincentius saith , every true lover of christ preferred the ancient faith before the novel betraying of it ; but then he must chuse this ancient faith against the judgment of the present guides of the church . and therefore that , according to vincentius , can be no infallible rule of faith. but whether the present universality dissents from antiquity , whose judgment should be sooner taken than its own ? saith the same authour , this had been an excellent argument in the mouth of ursacius or valens at the council of ariminum ; and i do not see what answer the guide in controversies could have made . but both are parties , and is not the councils judgment to be taken rather than a few opposers ? so that , for all that i can find by these principles , arianism having the greater number , had hard luck not to be established as the catholick faith. but if in that case , particular persons were to judge between the new and the old faith , then the same reason will still hold , unless the guides of the church have obtained a new patent of infallibility since that time . the great question among us , is , where the true ancient faith is ; and how we may come to find it out ? we are willing to follow the ancient rules in this matter . the scripture is allowed to be an infallible rule on all hands ; and i am proving that tradition was not allowed in the ancient church as distinct from it . but the present question is , how far tradition is to be allowed in giving the sense of scripture between us . vincentius saith , we ought to follow it when there is antiquity , universality and consent : this we are willing to be tryed by . but here comes another question , who is to be judge of these ? the present guides of the catholick church ? to what purpose then are all those rules ? will they condemn themselves ? or , as the guide admirably saith , if the present universality be its own judge , when can we think it will witness its departure from the true faith ? and if it will not , what a case is the church in , under such a pretended universality ? the utmost use i can suppose then , vincentius his rules can be of to us now , is in that case which he puts when corruptions and errours have had time to take root and fasten themselves ; and that is , by an appeal to scripture and ancient councils . but because of the charge of innovation upon us , we are content to be tried by his second rule . by the consent of the fathers of greatest reputation , who are agreed on all hands to have lived and died in the communion of the catholick church : and what they delivered freely , constantly and unanimously , let that be taken for the undoubted and certain rule in judging between us . but if the present guides must come in to be judges here again , then all our labour is lost , and vincentius his rules signifie just nothing , the testimony of s. basil is by mr. white magnified above the rest , and that out of his book de spiritu sancto above all others , to prove that the certainty of faith depends on tradition ; and not merely on scripture . the force of it is said to lye in this , that the practice of the church , in saying , with the holy spirit , though not found in scripture is to determine the sense of the article of faith about the divinity of the holy ghost . but to clear this place , we are to observe , . that s. basil doth not insist on tradition for the proof of the article of faith , for he expresly disowns it in that book ; it is not enough , saith he , that we have it by tradition from our fathers ; for our fathers had it from the will of god in scripture , as appears by those testimonies i have set down already , which they took for their foundations . nothing can be plainer than that s. basil made scripture alone the foundation of faith as to this point . and no one upon all occasions speaks more expresly than he doth as to the sufficiency of scripture for a rule of faith ; and he was too great , and too wise a man to contradict himself . . that there were different forms of speech used in the church concerning the holy ghost , some taken out of scripture , and others received by tradition from the fathers . when he proves the divinity of the holy ghost he appeals to scripture , and declares , that he would neither think nor speak otherwise than he found there . but it was objected that the form s. basil used was not found in scripture ; he answers , that the equivalent is there found ; and that there were some things received by tradition , which had the same force towards piety . and if we take away all unwritten customs , we shall doe wrong to the gospel , and leave a bare name to the publick preaching . and from thence he insists on some traditionary rites , as the sign of the cross , praying towards the east , &c. his business is to shew that to the greater solemnity of christian worship several customs were observed in the church , which are not to be found in scripture . and if other ancient customs were received which are not commanded in scripture , he sees no reason that they should find such fault with this . and this is the whole force of s. basil's reasoning , which can never be stretched to the setting up tradition as a rule of faith distinct from scripture . having thus shewed that there was no catholick tradition for this new rule of faith , i am now to give an account how it came into the church . the first step that was made towards it , was by the second council of nice . for , although the emperour in the synodical epistle proposed to them the true ancient mehod of judging in councils , by the books of scripture placed on a throne in the middle of the council ; yet they found , they could by no means doe their business that way , and therefore as bellarmin observes , they set up tradition in the th and th sessions , and pronounced anathema's against those who rejected unwritten traditions . but although there were then almost as little pretence for tradition as scripture in the matter of images ; yet there having been a practice among them , to set up and to worship images , ( which richerius thinks came first into the church from the reverence shewed to the emperours statues ) they thought this the securest way to advance that , which they could never defend by scripture . but this prevailed very little in the western church , as is well known by the rejection of that synod ; however pope hadrian joined with them , and produced a wretched tradition about sylvester and constantine to justifie their proceedings ; as appears by the acts of that council . and from the time that images were received at rome , the force of tradition was magnified ; and by degrees it came to be made use of to justifie other practices , for which they had nothing else to plead . hitherto tradition was made use of for matters of practice , and the scripture was generally received as the rule of faith ; but some of the schoolmen found it impossible to defend some doctrines held in the church of rome by mere scripture , and therefore they were forced to call in the help of tradition . the most remarkable of these was scotus , who although in his prologue he asserted , as is said already , that the scripture did sufficiently contain all things necessary to salvation ; yet when he came to particular points , he found scripture alone would never doe their business . and especially as to the sacraments of the church , about which he saw the church of rome then held many things which could never be proved from thence . and this was the true occasion of traditions being taken in for a partial rule . for after the council of lateran had declared several things to be of faith , which were in no former creeds , as scotus confesses , and they were bound to defend them as points of faith , the men of wit and subtilty , such as scotus was , were very hard put to it , to find out ways to prove those to have been old points of faith , which they knew to be very new . then they betook themselves to two things , which would serve for a colour to blind the common people ; and those were , . that it was true , these things were not in scripture ; but christ said to his disciples , i have many things to say unto you , &c. and among those many things they were to believe these new doctrines to be some . . when this would not serve , then they told them , though these doctrines were not explicitly in scripture , yet they were implicitly there ; and the church had authority to fetch them out of those dark places , and to set them in a better light . and thus scotus helped himself out in that dark point of transubstantiation . first he attempts to make it out by tradition , but finding that would not doe the business effectually , he runs to the authority of the church , especially in the business of sacraments , and we are to suppose , saith he , that the church doth expound the scripture with the same spirit which indited them . this was a brave supposition indeed , but he offers no proof of it . if we allow scotus to have been the introducer of tradition , as to some points of faith , yet i have made it appear , that his doctrine was not received in the schools . but after the council of constance had declared several propositions to be heretical , which could not be condemned by scripture , there was found a necessity of holding , that there were catholick truths not contained in scripture . the first proposition there condemned was , that the substance of bread and wine remain in the sacrament of the altar : the second , that the accidents do not remain without their subject : now how could such as these be condemned by scripture ? but although onely some were said to be heretical , yet all were said to be against catholick truth . but where is this catholick truth to be found ? cardinal cusanus thought of a current sense of scripture , according to the churches occasions ; so that though the churches practice should be directly contrary , yet the scripture was to be understood as the church practised . this was a very plain and effectual way , if it had not been too gross ; and therefore it was thought much better by cardinal turrecremata , to found catholick verities on unwritten tradition , as well as on scripture . after this , leo x. in his famous bull against luther , exurge domine , made a farther step ; for proposition condemned therein , is that it is certain that it is not in the power of the church or pope to appoint new articles of faith. it seems then the pope or church have a power to constitute new articles of faith ; and then neither scripture nor tradition can be the certain rule of faith , but the present church or pope . this had put an end to the business , if it would have taken ; but the world being wiser , and the errours and corruptions complained of not being to be defended 〈◊〉 scripture , tradition was pitched upon as a secure way ; and accordingly several attempts were made towards the setting of it up , by some provincial councils before that of trent . so in the council of sens , . can. . it is declared to be a pernicious errour to receive nothing but what is deduced from scripture , because christ delivered many things to his apostles which were never written . but not one thing is alledged as a matter of faith so conveyed ; but onely some rites about sacraments and prayer ; and yet he is declared a heretick as well as schismatick , who rejects them . indeed the apostles creed is mentioned , but not as to the articles contained in it , but as to the authours of it . but what is there in all this that makes a man guilty of heresie ? jod . clicthoveus , a doctor of paris , the next year wrote an explication and defence of this council , but he mistakes the point ; for he runs upon it as if it were , whether all things to be believed and observed in the church , were to be expresly set down in scripture ? whereas a just consequence out of it is sufficient . and the greatest strength of what he saith to the purpose , is , that the other opinion was condemned in the council of constance . and from no better a tradition than this did the council of trent declare the unwritten word to be a rule of faith equal with the scriptures . ii. about the canon of scripture , defined by the council of trent . this is declared by the council of trent , sess. . and therein the books of tobias , judith , wisedom of solomon , ecclesiasticus , maccabees and baruch are received for canonical , with the twenty two books in the hebrew canon , and an anathema is denounced against those who do not . and presently it adds , that hereby the world might see what authorities the council proceeded on for con●●rming matters of faith as well as reforming manners . now to shew that there was no catholick tradition for the ground of this decree , we are to observe , . that these canonical books are not so called in a large sense for such as have been used or read in the church ; but in the strict sense for such as are a good foundation to build matters of faith upon . . that these books were not so received by all even in the council of trent . for what is received by virtue of a catholick tradition , must be universally received by the members of it . but that so it was not appears by the account given by both the historians . f. paul saith , that in the congregation there were two different opinions of those who were for a particular catalogue ; one was to distinguish the books into three parts , the other to make all the books of equal authority ; and that this latter was carried by the greater number . now if this were a catholick tradition , how was it possible for the fathers of the council to divide about it ? and cardinal pallavicini himself saith , that bertanus and seripandus propounded the putting the books into several classes , some to be read for piety , and others to confirm doctrines of faith ; and that cardinal seripando wrote a most learned book to that purpose . what! against a catholick tradition ? it seems , he was far from believing it to be so . and he confesses , that when they came to the anathema , the legats and twenty fathers were for it ; madrucci and fourteen were against it , because some catholicks were of another opinion . then certainly , they knew no catholick tradition for it . among these cardinal cajetan is mention'd , who was , saith pallavicini , severely rebuked for it by melchior canus ; but what is that to the tradition of the church ? canus doth indeed appeal to the council of carthage , innocentius i. and the council of florence ; but this doth not make up a catholick tradition against cajetan ; who declares that he follows s. jerom , who cast those books out of the canon with respect to faith. and he answers the arguments brought on the other side , by this distinction , that they are canonical for edification , but not for faith. if therefore canus would have confuted cajetan he ought to have proved that they were owned for canonical in the latter sense . cajetan in his epistle to clemens vii . before the historical books , owns the great obligation of the church to s. jerom for distinguishing canonical and apocryphal books ; and saith , that he hath freed it from the reproach of the jews , who said the christians made canonical books of the old testament which they knew nothing of . and this was an argument of great consequence ; but canus takes no notice of it , and it fully answers his objection , that men could not know what books were truly canonical , viz. such as were of divine inspiration , and so received by the jews . catharinus saith , in answer to cajetan , that the jews had one canon , and the church another . but how comes the canon to be received as of divine inspiration which was not so received among the jews ? this were to resolve all into the churches inspiration and not into tradition . bellarmin grants , that the church can by no means make a book canonical which is not so , but onely declare what is canonical , and that , not at pleasure ; but from ancient testimonies , from similitude of style with books uncontroverted , and the general sense and taste of christian people . now the case here relates to books not first written to christians , but among the jews , from whom we receive the oracles of god committed to them . and if the jews never believed these books to contain the oracles of god in them , how can the christian church embrace them for such , unless it assumes a power to make , and not merely to declare canonical books ? for he grants we have no testimony of the jews for them . but catharinus himself cannot deny that s. jerom saith , that although the church reads those books , yet it doth not receive them for canonical scriptures . and he makes a pitisull answer to it . for he confesses , that the church taken for the body of the faithfull did not receive them ; but as taken for the governours it did . but others grant that they did receive them no more than the people ; and as to the other , the cause of tradition is plainly given us . and in truth he resolves all at last into the opinion of the popes innocentius , gelasius and eugenius . but we are obliged to him for letting us know the secret of so much zeal for these apocryphal books , viz. that they are of great force against the hereticks , for purgatory is no where so expresly mention'd as in the maccabees . if it had not been for this , s. jerom and cajetan might have escaped censure , and the jewish canon had been sufficient . but to shew , that there hath been no catholick tradition about the tridentine canon , i shall prove these two things : . that there hath been a constant tradition against it in the eastern church . . that there never was a constant tradition for it in the western church . . that there hath been a constant tradition against it in the eastern church , which received the jewish canon , without the books declared canonical by the council of trent . we have very early evidence of this in the testimony of melito , bishop of sardis , who lived not long after the middle of the d . century , and made it his business to enquire into this matter , and he delivers but books of the old testament . the same is done by origen in the next , who took infinite pains , as eusebius saith , in searching after the copies of the old testament . and these testimonies are preserved by eusebius in the following century : and himself declares , that there was no sacred book among the jews from the time of zorobabel ; which cuts off the books canonized by the council of trent . in the same age we have the testimonies of athanasius , st. cyril of jerusalem , epiphanius , s. basil , s. gregory nazianzene , amphilochius and s. chrysostom : it is not to be imagined that a tradition should be better attested in one age than this was , by so considerable men in different churches , who give in the testimony of all those churches they belonged to . and yet besides these we have in that age a concurrent testimony of a council of bishops at laodicea , from several provinces of asia ; and which is yet more , this canon of theirs was received into the code of the catholick church ; and so owned by the council of chalcedon , which by its first canon gives authority to it . and justinian allows the force of laws to the canons which were either made or confirmed by the four general councils . but it is the point of tradition i am upon ; and there●ore justinian's novel may at least be a s●rong evidence of that in the th century : in the th , leontius gives his own testimony , and that of theodorus . in the th , damascen expresly owns the hebrew canon of books , and excludes by name some of the books made canonical at trent . in the th we have the test●mony of nicephorus , patriarch of constantinople , if he be the authour of the laterculus , at the end of his chr●nography ; but if he be not , he must be an authour of that age , being translated by anastasius bibliothecarius . in the th . balsamon and zonaras refer to the council of laodicea , and the greek fathers . in the th . nicephorus calisthus reckons but books of the old testament . and in this age , we have the clear testimony of metrophanes , ( afterwards patriarch of alexandria ) who saith , there are but canonical books of the old testament ; but the rest , i. e. tobit , judith , wisedom , ecclesiasticus , baruch and machabees are usefull , and therefore not wholly to be rejected , but the church never received them for canonical and authentical , as appears by many testimonies , as , among others , of gregory the divine , amphilochius and damascen : and therefore we never prove matters of faith out of them . . let us now compare this tradition with that of the western church for the new canon of trent . it cannot be denied , that innocentius i. and gelasius did enlarge the canon , and took in the apocryphal books ( unless we call in question the writings under their names ; ) but granting them genuine , i shall shew that there is no comparison between this tradition and that of the eastern church , and therefore there could be no possible reason for the council of trent to make a decree for this tradition , and to anathematize all who did not submit to it . for , . this tradition was not universally received at that time . innocentius his epistle is supposed to be written a. d. . was the western church agreed before or after about this matter ? this epistle was written to eruperius , a gallican bishop , ( to whom st. jerom dedicated his commentaries on zechariah , ) but now it unluckily falls out , that the tradition of the gallican church was contrary to this ; as appears by s. hilary , ( who could not be ignorant of it , being a famous bishop of that church ) and he tells us , there were but canonical books of the old testament . i confess he saith , some were for adding tobit and judith , but it is very observable that he saith , that the other account is most agreeable to ancient tradition , which is a mighty argument against innocentius , who brings no tradition to justifie his canon . when st. augustin produced a place out of the book of wisedom , the divines of marseilles rejected it ; because the book was not canonical : therefore in that time innocent's canon was by no means received in the gallican church ; for by it this book was made canonical . but s. jerom , who had as much learning as pope innocent , vehemently opposed this new canon more than once or ten times ; and not onely speaks of the jewish canon , but of the canon of the church . the church , saith he , reads the books of tobit , judith and machabees , but the church doth not receive them among canonical scriptures . what church doth he mean ? not the synagogue certainly . pope innocent saith , those books are to be received into the canon ; s. jerom saith , the church doth not receive them , but that they are to be cast out ; where is the certainty of tradition to be found ? if innocent were in the right , s. jerom was foully mistaken , and in plain terms belied the church . but how is this consistent with the saintship of st. jerom ? or with common discretion if the church did receive those books for canonical ? for every one could have disproved him . and it required no great judgment or deep learning to know what books were received , and what not . if s. jerom were so mistaken ( which it is very hard to believe ) how came ruffinus not to observe his errours and opposition to the church ? nay , how came ruffinus himself to fall into the very same prodigious mistake ? for he not onely rejects the controverted books out of the canon , but saith , he follow'd the ancient tradition therein . what account can be given of this matter ? if innocent's tradition were right , these men were under a gross delusion ; and yet they were learned and knowing persons , and more than ordinarily conversant in the doctrines and traditions of the church . . this opinion was not received as a tradition of the church afterwards . for , if it had been , how could gregory i. reject the book of machabees out of the canon , when two of his predecessours took it in ? it is somewhat hard , to suppose one pope to contradict two of his predecessours about the canon of scripture ; yet i see not how to avoid it ; nor how it is consistent with the constancy of tradition , much less with the pretence to infallibility . he did not merely doubt , as canus would have it thought , but he plainly excludes them out of the canon . catharinus thinks he follow'd s. jerom. what then ? doth this exclude his contradicting his predecessours ? or was s. jerom's judgment above the pope's ? but it was not s. gregory alone who contradicted the former popes canon ; for it was not received either in italy , spain , france , germany or england ; and yet no doubt it was a very catholick tradition . not in italy ; for there cassiodore , a learned and devout man in the next century to them , gives an account of the canon of scripture , and he takes not any notice either of innocent or gelasius . he first sets down the order of scripture according to s. jerom ; and then according to s. augustin ; and in the last place , according to the old translation and the lxx . and where himself speaks of the apocryphal books before , he follows s. jerom 's opinion , that they were written rather for manners than dactrine . he confesses there was a difference about the canon ; but he goes about to excuse it . but what need that if there were a catholick tradition then in the church concerning it , and that inforced by two popes ? but it may yet seem stranger , that even in italy , one canonized for a saint by clemens vii . should follow s. jerom's opinion in this matter , viz. s. antoninus , bishop of florence . who speaking of ecclestasticus received into the canon of the two popes , he saith , it is onely received by the church to be read , and is not authentick to prove any thing in matters of faith. he that writes notes upon him , saith , that he follows s. jerom , and must be understood of the eastern church ; for the western church always receiv'd these books into the canon . but he speaks not one word of the eastern church ; and by the church he could understand nothing but what he accounted the catholick church . canus allows antoninus to have rejected these books ; but he thinks the matter not so clear , but then they might doubt concerning it . then there was no such evidence of tradition to convince men . but antoninus hath preserved the judgment of a greater man concerning these books even thomas aquinas , who in . dae . he saith , denied these books to have such authority as to prove any matter of faith by them : which is directly contrary to the council of trent . if this passage be not now to be found in him , we know whom to blame for it . if antoninus saw it there , we hope his word may be taken for it . in spain , we have for the hebrew canon the testimonies of paulus burgensis , tostatus , and cardinal ximines . in france , of victorinus , agobardus , radulphus flaviacensis , petrus cluniacensis , hugo de s. victore , and richard de s. victore , lyra and others . in germany , of rabanus maurus , strabus , rupertus , hermannus contractus and others . in england , of bede , alcvin , sarisburiensis , ockam , waldensis and others . whom i barely mention , because their testimonies are at large in bishop cosins his scholastical history of the canon of scripture , and no man hath yet had the hardiness to undertake that book . these i think are sufficient to shew there was no catholick tradition for the decree of the council of trent about the canon of scripture . i now proceed to shew on what pretences and colours it came in , and by what degrees and steps it advanced . . the first step was , the esteem which some of the fathers expressed of these books in quoting of passages out of them . we do not deny that the fathers did frequently cite them : even those who expresly rejected them from being canonical , and not as ordinary books , but as such as were usefull to the church , wherein many wise sayings and good actions are recorded . but the many quotations the fathers do make out of them is the onely plausible pretence which those of the church of rome have to defend the putting them into the canon , as appears by bellarmin and others . the book of tobit , they tell us , is mentioned by s. cyprian , s. ambrose , st. basil , and st. augustin . of judith by st. jerom who mentions a tradition that it was allowed in the council of nice ; but certainly s. jerom never believed it , when he declares it to be apocryphal , and not sufficient to prove any matter of faith. the book of wisedom by s. cyprian , s. cyril and s. augustin . ecclesiasticus by clemens alexandrinus , s. cyprian , epiphanius , s. ambrose and s. augustin . the machabees by tertullian , cyprian , clemens alexandrinus , origen , eusebius , s. ambrose , s. augustin . but all these testimonies onely prove that they thought something in those books worth alledging , but not that they judged the books themselves canonical . and better arguments from their citations might be brought for the books of the sibylls than for any of these . we are not then to judge of their opinion of canonical books by bare citations , but by their declared judgments about them . . the next step was , when they came to be read in churches ; but about this there was no certain rule . for the councils of laodicea and carthage differed chiefly upon this point . the former decreed , that none but canonical scripture should be read under the name of holy writings ; and sets down the names of the canonical books then to be read , ( and so leaves out the apocalypse . ) the latter from their being read , inferr'd their being canonical ; for it agrees with the other , that none but canonical should be read , and because these were read , it reckons them up with the canonical books ; for so the canon concludes , we have received from our fathers that these books are to be read in churches . but the council of carthage was not peremptory in this matter ; but desired it might be referred to boniface and other bishops beyond the seas : which shews that here was no decree absolutely made , nor any certainty of tradition ; for then to what purpose should they send to other churches to advise about it ? . when they came to be distinguished from apocryphal writings . whence those who do not consider the reason of it , conclude them to have been canonical . but sometimes apocryphal signified such books as were not in the canon of faith , as in the authours before mentioned ; sometimes such books which were not allowed to be used among christians . this distinction we have in ruffinus , who saith there are three sorts of books ; canonical , as the of the old testament ; ecclesiastical , of which sort he reckons wisedom , ecclesiasticus , tobit , judith and machabees , and these he saith were permitted to be read in churches , but no argument could be brought out of them for matter of faith , apocryphal are such which by no means were permitted to be read . and thus innocentius his words may well be understood : for he concludes with saying , that other writings were not onely to be rejected , but to be condemned . and so his meaning is to distinguish them from such counterfeit divine writings as were then abroad . for these were not to be wholly rejected , and in that large sense he admits them into the canon , taking ecclesiastical writings which were read in churches into that number . and in this sense s. augustin used the word apocryphal , when the book of enoch is so called by him , and such other counterfeit writings under the names of the prophets and apostles ; but elsewhere he distinguishes between the canonical books of salomon , and those which bear his name ; which he saith the more learned know not to be his , but the western church had of old owned their authority . but in the case of the book of enoch , he appeals to the canon , which was kept in the jewish temple ; and so falls in with s. jerom ; and he confesses it is hard to justifie the authority of those which are not in the hebrew canon . of the machabees he saith , it is distinguished from the writings called canonical ; but it is received by the church as such . what! to confirm matters of faith ? no. but for the glorious sufferings therein recorded ; and elsewhere he saith , it is usefull , if it be soberly read . s. augustin knew very well that all books were not received alike ; and that many were received in some parts of the western church from the old translation out of the lxx , which were not received in the eastern ; and therefore in his books of christian doctrine he gives rules in judging of canonical books ; to follow the authority of the greatest number of catholick churches , especially the apostolical ; and that those which were received by all , should be preferred before those which were onely received by some . but he very well knew , that the hebrew canon was universally received , and that the controverted books were not ; and therefore , according to his rule , these could never be of equal authority with the other . . when the roman church declared that it received the controverted books into the canon . this is said to have been done by gelasius , with his synod of lxx bishops , ( and yet it is hard to understand how gregory so soon after should contradict it . ) the title of it in the old ms. produced by chiffletius , and by him attributed to hormisdas , is , the order of the old testament which the holy catholick roman church receives and honours is this . but whether by gelasius , or hormisdas , i cannot understand , why such a decree as this should not be put into the old roman code of canons , if it had been then made . that there was such a one appears by the copies of it in the vatican , mentioned by the roman correctors of gratian , and by mention of it by the canon si romanorum , dist. . and de libellis , dist. . and by the latter we understand what canons of councils and decrees of popes are in it , among whom are both gelasius and hormisdas . this they agree to be the same with that published by wendelstin at mentz , . the epistle of innocentius to exuperius with the canon is there published ; but not the other ; and so is the canon of the council of carthage ; but that of laodicea is cut off ; and so they are in that published by dionysius exiguus and quesnell , ( justellus his ancient copy was imperfect there , ) but both these canons being in the roman code , are an argument to me , that the controverted books were received by the roman church at that time ; but in such a manner , that s. jerom's prologues still stood in the vulgar latin bible , with the commentaries of lyra , and additions of burgensis , which were stiff for the hebrew canon ; and s. jerom's authority prevailed more than the pope's , as appears fully by what hath been already produced . . to advance the authority of these books one step higher , eugenius iv. declared them to be part of the canon in the instruction given to the armenians . which the roman writers pretend to have been done in the council of florence : but naclantus bishop of chioza , in the council of trent , as pallavicini saith , denied that any such decree was made by the council of florence ; because the last session of it ended . and that decree was signed feb. . . to this the legat replied , that this was a mistake occasioned by abraham cretensis , who published the latin version of it , onely till the greeks departure ; but the council continued three years longer , as appeared by the extracts of augustinus patricius , since published in the tomes of the councils . but he never mentions the canon of scripture ; however , because cervinus affirms that he saw the original signed by the pope and cardinals , we have no reason to dispute it . but then it appears how very little it signified , when antoninus the bishop of florence opposed it , and cardinal ximenes and cardinal cajetan slighted it , and all who embraced the council of basil looked on eugenius his decree as void ; and after all , that very decree onely joins the apocryphal books in the same canon , as the council of carthage had done ; but it was reserved as the peculiar honour of the council of trent to declare that matters of faith might be proved out of them , as well as out of any canonical scriptures . iii. about the free use of the scripture in the vulgar language , prohibited by the council of trent . to understand the sense of the council of trent in this matter , we must consider ; . that it declares the vulgar latin to be authentick ; i. e. that no man under any pretence shall dare to presume to reject it . suppose the pretence be that it differs from the original ; no matter for that , he must not reject that which the council hath declared authentick , i. e. among the latin editions . but suppose a man finds other latin translations truer in some parts , because they agree more with the original text , may he therein reject the vulgar latin ? by no means , if he thinks himself bound to adhere to the council of trent . but the council supposes it to agree with the original . and we must believe the council therein . this is indeed the meaning of the council as far as i can judge . but what catholick tradition was there for this ? tes for a thousand years after gregory 's time . but this is not antiquity enough to found a catholick tradition upon . if there were no more than a thousand from gregory , there were six hundred past before him ; so that there must be a more ancient tradition in the church , wherein this version was not authentick ; and how came it then to be authentick by virtue of tradition ? here then tradition must be given up ; and the council of trent must have some other ground to go upon . for i think the traditionary men will not maintain the vulgar latin to have been always authentick . . that it referred the making the index of prohibited books to the pope ; and in the th rule of that index , all persons are forbidden the use of the scripture in the vulgar tongue , without a particular licence , and whosoever presumes to doe it without a faculty , unless he first gives up his bible , he is not to receive absolution . my business is now to enquire what catholick tradition the pope and council went upon in this prohibition . but as to the testimony of fathers , i am prevented by some late discourses on this subject . in stead thereof therefore i shall , . shew from their own writers , that there could be no catholick tradition for such a prohibition . . prove the general consent of the catholick church from publick acts , as to the free use of the scripture . thomas aquinas grants that the scripture was proposed to all , and in such a manner that the most rude might understand it . therefore there was no prohibition of such persons reading it . cajetan there uses two arguments for the scriptures using metaphors and similitudes . . because god provides for all . . because the scripture is tendred to all . and the common people are not capable of understanding spiritual things without such helps . if the scripture were intended for all , how comes a prohibition of the use of it ? sixtus senensis grants , that in former times the scripture was translated into the vulgar languages , and the people did commonly reade it , to their great benefit . then a prohibition of it must alter the churches practical tradition . alphonsus à castro yields to erasmus , that the scriptures were of old translated into the vulgar tongues , and that the fathers , such as s. chrysostom , and s. jerom , persuaded people to the reading them . but the case is altered now , when such mischief comes by the reading the scriptures . and yet the tradition of the church continues the same , and is impossible to be changed . azorius puts the case fairly ; he grants that the scriptures were at first written and published in the common language ; that s. chrysostom admits all to reade the scriptures ; and that the people did so then ; but they do not now . but he saith , the people then understood greek and latin , and now they do not . if it were their own language they might well understand it ; but why should not the scripture now be in a language they may understand ? for greek and latin did not make the common people one jot wiser or better ; and yet this man calls it a heresie now to say , the scriptures ought to be translated into vulgar languages . how much is the faith of the church changed ? . i am now to prove the general consent of the catholick church in this matter from publick acts , i. e. that all parts of it have agreed in translations of scripture into vulgar languages without any such prohibition . if there had been any such thing in the primitive church , it would have held against the latin translation it self . for i hope none will say it was the original , however authentick it be made by the council of trent . how then came the originals to be turned into the common language ? ( as i suppose latin will be allow'd to have been the common language of the roman empire . ) there is no objection can now be made against any modern translations , but would have held against the first latin version . who the authour of it was is utterly unknown ; and both s. augustin and s. jerom say , there was a great variety among the old translations , and every one translated as he thought fit . so that there was no restraint laid upon translating into the common language . and unless latin were an infallible guide to those that understood it , the people were as liable to be deceived in it , as either in english or french. but it was not onely thus in the roman empire , but whereever a people were converted to christianity in all thè elder times , the scripture was turned into their language . the ecclesiastical historians mention the conversion of the goths , and upon that , the translation of the bible into their language by ulphilas their bishop . walafridus strabo adds to this , that besides the bible , they had all publick offices of religion performed in their own language . how soon the churches in persia were planted , it is impossible for us now to know ; but in the ms. ecclesiastical history of abulpharagius ( in the hands of dr. loftus ) it is said , that a disciple of thaddaeus preached the gospel in persia , assyria and the parts thereabouts ; and that by another disciple of his churches were settled there in his time ; and that he came to seleucia , the metropolis of the persians , and there established a church , where he continued fifteen years . and from him there was a succession of the patriarchs of seleucia , which continues still in the east ; for upon destruction thereof by almansor , they removed first to bagdad , and after that to mozal over against ninive , where their residence hath been since ; and this patriarch had universal jurisdiction over the eastern churches as far as the east indies , as appears by morinus his books of ordinations in the east , and the proceedings with the christians of st. thomas in the very end of the last century . but we are certain from the greek historians , that in constantine's time the christians in persia were so numerous that he wrote to the king of persia on their behalf . eusebius saith that constantine was informed , that the churches were much increased there , and great multitudes were brought into christ's flock ; and constantine himself in his letter to sapores saith , the christians flourished in the best parts of persia ; and he hoped they might continue so to doe . but after constantine's death a terrible persecution befell them , wherein sozomen saith , the names of martyrs were preserved , besides an innumerable multitude of unknown persons . the sharpest part of the persecution fell upon the bishops and presbyters ; especially in adiabene , which was almost wholly christian , which ammianus marcellinus saith was the same with assyria , wherein were ninive , ecbatane , arbela , gaugamela , babylon ( or seleucia ) and ctesiphon , of which sozomen saith , symeon was then archbishop . and he names above twenty bishops who suffered besides , and one mareabdes a chorepiscopus , with of his clergy . after the time of sapores several sharp persecutions fell upon those churches in the times of vararanes and isdigerdes , of which the greek historians take notice , and one of them , saith theodoret , lasted thirty years . this i mention to shew what mean thoughts those have of the catholick church who consine it to the roman communion . theodoret and s. chrysostom both affirm that the persians had the scriptures then in their own language ; and sozomen saith , that symeon archbishop of seleucia , and ctesiphon before his own martyrdom , incouraged the rest to suffer out of the holy scriptures . which supposes them well acquainted with the language of it , and it is not very likely they should be either with the hebrew , greek or latin ; but the other testimonies make it clear that it was in their own tongue . the anonymous writer of s. chrysostom's life affirms , that while he staid in armenia , he caused the new testament to be translated into the armenian tongue for the benefit of those churches . and this tradition is allow'd by several learned men in the church of rome . but the armenians themselves say , the whole bible was translated into the armenian language by moses grammaticus , david and mampraeus , three learned men of their own , in the time of their patriarch isaac , about s. chrysostom 's time . theodoret , in the place already cited , mentions the armenian translation , as a thing well known ; and he was near enough to understand the truth of it . jacobus de vitriaco , a roman cardinal , saith , that the armenians in his time had the scriptures read to them in their own language . the syriack version for the use of those in the eastern parts who understood not hebrew or greek , is allowed by all learned men to have been very ancient . i mean the old simple version out of the originals , and not that out of the lxx . of the old testament . as to the new , the tradition of the eastern people is , that it was done either in the apostles times or very near them . abraham ecchellensis shews , from the syriack writers , that the compleat translation of the bible was made in the time of abgarus , king of edessa , by the means of thaddaeus and the other apostles ; and as to the time of thaddaeus , gregorius malatiensis confirms it . postellus quotes an ancient tradition ( which my adversaries ought to regard ) that s. mark himself translated not only his own gospel , but all the books of the ne● testament into the vulgar syriack . it is sufficient to my purpose , to shew that there was such an ancient translation ; which is owned by s. chrysostom , s. ambrose , s. augustin , diodorus and theodoret : which makes me wonder at cardinal bellarmin's affirming with so much confidence , that none of the fathers speak of the syriack version , when theodoret alone mentions it so often in his commentaries . although the greeks in egypt might very well understand the greek of the old and new testament , ( especially if that which is called the lxx . were done by the alexandrian jews , as some imagine ) yet those who knew no other than the old egyptian language could not make use of it . and therefore a coptick translation was made for them ; which kircher thinks to have been years old . and he withal observes , that their ancient liturgies were in the coptick language . that it might not be susp●cted that kircher imposed upon the world , he gives a particular account of the books he had seen in the vatican library and elsewhere in the coptick tongue . the pentateuch in three tomes , distinguished into paragraphs by lines . the four gospels by themselves . s. paul's epistles and three canonical epistles with the acts in another volume . the apocalypse by it self ; and the psalter . the liturgy of s. mark with other daily prayers . the liturgy of s. gregory , with the prayers of s. cyril in the coptick language ; and a liturgy of s. basil , with gregory and cyril , with several other rituals , missals and prayers , all in the same tongue . all these , he saith , are in the vatican library . and in that of the maronites college , he saith , is an old coptick martyrology about years standing , by which he finds , that the chief imployment of the old egyptian monks was to translate the bible out of hebrew , chaldee and greek into the coptick tongue . morinus saith , that in the oratorian lbrary at paris , they had the coptick gospels brought from constantinople by monsr . de sancy . petrus à valle , a nobleman of rome , and a great traveller , saith he had several parts of scripture in the coptick language ; which were turned into arabick , when the old coptick grew into disuse . petraeus had in the eastern parts a coptick psalter , with an arabick version , which he designed to publish . the congregation de propaganda fide at rome had several coptick mss. sent to them out of egypt , among the rest the coptick book of ordination transloatd and printed by kircher ; and since reprinted by morinus . seguier the late chancellour of france had in his library , the consecration of a patriarch in coptick and arabick , and several translations of the bible , and prayers in both languages . the aethiopick translation bears date with the conversion of the nation , according to their own tradition , which some make to be in the apostolical times , and others in the time of constantine ; and their publick offices are performed in their own tongue . the chancellour seguier had not only many parts of the bible , but prayers and offices in the aethiopick tongue . i shall add but one thing more to this purpose , which is taken from the want of antiquity in the arabick versions ; which is confessed by the learned criticks on all sides . and even this tends to prove my design . for when the saracen empire prevailed , the people grew more acquainted with the arabick than with the ancient syriack or coptick ; and therefore the scripture was then translated into arabick ; ( as vasaeus saith it was done in spain after the moors came thither by a bishop of sevil ) and this was the true reason why the arabick versions have no greater antiquity . for gabriel sionita observes that the arabick is become the most vulgar language in the eastern parts . and because it was so in syria as well as egypt , therefore there are different arabick versions ; the one called codex antiochenus , and the other alexandrinus . thus i have proved that there was a catholick tradition directly contrary to that established by order of the council of trent . and now i proceed to give an account of the methods and steps by which this decree came to its ripeness . . the first step was the declension and corruption of the latin tongue in the western church . it is observed by polybius , that from the time of the first league between the romans and carthaginians , the latin tongue was so much changed even in rome it self that very few could understand the words of it . and festus in latine loqui saith , that the language was so alter'd , that scarce any part of it remained entire . scaliger thinks these words were added to festus by paulus diaconus ; which seems much more probable , since he lived in the time of charlemagn . at which time we may easily suppose the latin tongue to have been very much corrupted by the writers , and not so easie to be understood any where by the common people in sudden discourse , as it had been before . which appears evident by the latin sermons made to the people in the several provinces in the roman empire ; as in africa by s. augustin and fulgentius ; in italy by petrus chrysologus , laurentius novariensis , gaudentius brixiensis , ennodius ticinensis : in spain by isidore , ildephonsus and others : in gaul by caesarius , eucherius , eligius , and several others , whose latin sermons to the people are still extant . in the council of tours , in the time of charlemagn , particular care is taken that the homilies should be translated by their bishops either into the rustick roman or the german , that the people might the easier understand them . these homilies were either those which charlemagn caused to be taken out of the fathers , and applied to the several lessons through the year , as sigebert observes , or of their own composing ; however they were to be turned by the bishops either into rustick roman , or german , as served best to the capacities of the people . for the franks then either retained the original german , or used the rustick roman ; but this latter so much prevailed over the other , that in the solemn oaths between lewis and charles upon parting the dominions of france and germany , set down in nithardus , the rustick roman was become the vulgar language of france , and these were but the grandchildren of charlemagn . marquardus freherus thinks that onely the princes and great men retained the german , but the generality then spake the rustick roman ; as appears by the oath of the people ; which begins thus . si lod●igs sacrament que son fradre carlo jurat conservat , & carlus meo serdra de suo part non los tanit , si jo returnar non licit pois , ne io , ne neuls cui eo returnar nil pois , in nulla adjudha contra lodwig nun li iver . by which we may see what a mixture of latin there was in the vulgar language then used by the franks , and how easie it was for the people then to understand the publick offices being constant ; but the sermons not being so , there was greater necessity to turn them into that corruptor rustick roman , which was thoroughly understood by them . in spain the latin was less corrupted before the gothick and arabick or moorish words were taken into it . lucius mariness saith , that had it not been for the mixture of those words , the spaniards had spoken as good latin as the romans did in the time of tully : and he saith , that to his time he had seen epistles written in spanish , wherein all the nouns and verbs were good latin. in italy the affinity of the vulgar prevailing language and the latin continued so great , that the difference seemed for some hundred years , no more than of the learned and common greek , or of the english and scotch ; and so no necessity was then apprehended of translating the correct tongue into a corrupt dialect of it . but where there was a plain difference of language there was some care even then taken , that the people might understand what they heard , as appears by these things : . alcuinus gives an account why one day was called sabbatum in lectionibus , when there were but six lessons , and he saith , it was because they were read both in greek and latin , they not understanding each others languages . not because the greek was a holy tongue , but quia aderant graeci , quibus ignota er at lingua latina ; which shews that the church then thought it a reasonable cause to have the scripture in such a language , which might be understood by the people . the same reason is given by amalarius . . in the german churches there were ancient translations of scripture into their own language . b. rhenanus attributes a translation of the gospels to waldo bishop of freising , assoon as the franks received christianity , and he saith , it was the immortal honours of the franks , to have the scripture so soon translated into their own language ; which , saith he , is of late opposed by some divines : so little did he know of an universal tradition against it . goldastus mentions the translation in rhime by ottfridus wissenburgensis , published by achilles gassarus , the psalter of notkerus , rudolphus ab eems his paraphrase of the old testament . andreas du chesn hath published a preface before an old saxon book , wherein it is said , that ludovicus pius did take care that all the people should read the scripture in their own tongue , and gave it in charge to a saxon to translate both old and new testament into the german language ; which , saith he , was performed very elegantly . . in the saxon churches here , it was not to be expected that the scripture should be translated , till there were persons learned both in the saxon and the other languages . bede , in his epistle to egbert , puts him upon instructing the common people in their own language , especially in the creed and lord's prayer ; and to further so good a work , bede himself translated the gospel of st. john into the saxon tongue , as cuthbert saith in the epistle about his death , in the life of bede , before his saxon history . it appears by the old canons of churches , and the epistles of aelfric , saith mr. lisle , that there was an old saxon canon for the priest to say unto the people the sense of the gospel in english ; and aelfric saith of himself , that he had translated the pentateuch , and some of the historical books . the new testament was translated by several hands ; and an ancient saxon translation hath been lately published with the gothick gospels . and there were old saxon glosses upon the gospels ; of aldred , farmen and owen . the last work of k. alfred was the translating the psalter ; and if the ms. history of ely deserves credit , he translated both the old and new testament . . it is not denied either by bellarmin or baronius , that the slavonians in the th century had a permission upon their conversion to christianity , to enjoy the bible , and to have publick offices performed in their own language . but they tell us , it was because they were then children in the faith , and to be indulged ; ( but methinks children were the most in danger to be seduced ; ) or there were not priests enough to officiate in latin at first : but this was no reason then given , as appears by the pope's own letter published by baronius , wherein he gives god thanks for the invention of letters among them by constantine a philosopher ; and he expresly saith , that god had not confined his honour to three languages , but all people and languages were to praise him ; and he saith , god himself in scripture had so commanded ; and he quotes st. paul's words for it . one would wonder those great men should no better consider the popes own reasons ; but give others for him , which he never thought of . it is true , he adds , that he would have the gospel read first in latin , and then in salvonian , and if they pleased he would have the mass said in latin ; but the slavonians continued their custom , and the pope was willing enough to let them enjoy it , for his own convenience as well as theirs . for there was a secret in this matter , which is not fully understood . aventinus , saith , that methodius invented their i etters , and translated the scriptures into the slavonian tongue , and persuaded the people to reject the latin service ; but this i see no ground for . but the truth of the matter was , the slavonians were converted by the means of methodius and cyril , ( otherwise called constantine ) two greek bishops , and the christian religion was settled among them by their means , and they translated the scriptures and offices of worship into their own language . the pope had not forgotten the business of the bulgarians , and he could not tell but this might end in subjection to another patriarchal see ; and therefore he en●eavours to get methodius and cyril to rome , and having gained them , he sends a sweetning letter to the prince , and makes the concession before mentioned . for he could not but remember how very lately the greeks had gained the bulgarians from him ; and lest the slavonians should follow them , he was content to let them have what they desired , and had already established among themselves , without his permission . all this appears from the account of this matter given by constantinus porphyrogenetus , compared with diocleas his regnum slavorum , and lucius his dalmatian history . it is sufficient for my purpose , that diocleas owns that constantine ( to whom andreas dandalus , d. of venice , in his m s history cited by lucius , saith , the pope gave the name of cyril ) did translate the bible into the slavonian tongue , for the benefit of the people , and the publick offices out of greek , according to their custom . and the chancellour seguier had in his library both the new testament and l●turgies in the slavonian language , and in cyril's character ; and many of the greek fathers commentaries on scripture in that tongue , but not one of the latin. . the next step was , when gregory . prohibited the translation of the latin offices in the slavonian tongue . and this he did to the king of bohemia himself , after a peremptory manner ; but he saith , it was the request of the nobility , that they might have divine offices in the slavonian tongue , which he could by no means yield to . what was the matter ? how comes the case to be so much altered from what it was in his predecessor's time ? the true reason was , the bohemian churches were then brought into greater subjection to the roman see , after the consecration of dithmarus saxo to be their archbishop ; and now they must own their subjection , as the roman provinces were wont to do , by receiving the language . but as his predecessour had found scripture for it , for gregory pretends he had found reason against it , viz. the scripture was obscure , and apt to be misunderstood and despised . what! more than in the time of methodius and cyril ? if they pleaded primitive practice , he plainly answers , that the church is grown wiser , and hath corrected many things that were then allowed . this is indeed to the purpose ; and therefore by the authority of s. peter , he forbids him to suffer any such thing , and charges him to oppose it with all his might . but after all , it is entred in the canon law de officio jud. ord. l. . tit. . c. quoniam . as a decree of innocent . in the lateran council , that where there were people of different languages , the bishop was to provide persons fit to officiate in those several languages . why so ? if there were a prohibition of using any but the latin tongue . but this was for the greeks , and theirs was an holy tongue . that is not said ; nor if it were would it signifie any thing ; for doth any imaginary holiness of the tongue sanctifie ignorant devotion ? but the canon supposes them to have the same faith. then the meaning is , that no man must examin his religion by the scripture , but if he rseolves beforehand to believe as the church believes , then he may have the scriptures or prayers in what language he pleases . but even this is not permitted in the roman church . for , . after the inquisition was set up by the authority of innocent . in the lateran council , no lay persons were permitted to have the books of the old and new testament , but the psalter , or breviary , or hours , they might have ; but by no means in the vulgar language . this is called by d'achery and labbe the council of tholouse , but in truth it was nothing else but an order of the inquisition , as will appear to any one that reads it . and the inquisition ought to have the honour of it , both in france and spain . which prohibition hath been so gratefull to some divines of the church of rome , that cochlaeus calls it pious , just , reasonable , wholsom and necessary ; andradius thinks the taking of it away would be destructive to faith ; ledesma saith , the true catholicks do not desire it , and bad ought not to be gratified with it . petrus sutor , a carthusian doctour , calls the translating scripture into the vulgar languages , a rash , useless and dangerous thing ; and he gives the true reason of it , viz. that the people will be apt to murmur when they see things required as from the apostles , which they cannot find a word of in scripture . and when all is said on this subject that can be , by men of more art , this is the plainest and honestest reason for such a prohibition ; but i hope i have made it appear it is not built on any catholick tradition . iv. of the merit of good works . the council of trent sess. . c. . declares , that the good works of justified persons do truly deserve eternal life ; and can. ● . an anathema is denounced against him that denies them to be meritorious , or that a justified person by them doth not truly merit increase of grace , and happiness , and eternal life . the council hath not thought fit to declare what it means by truly meriting ; but certainly it must be opposed to an improper kind of meriting , and what that is we must learn from the divines of the church of rome . . some say , that some of the fathers speak of an improper kind of merit , which is no more than the due means for the attaining of happiness as the end. so vega confesses they often use the word merit , where there is no reason for merit , either by way of congruity or condignity . therefore , where there is true merit there must be a proper reason for it . and the council of trent being designed to condemn some prevailing opinions at that time , among those they called hereticks , this assertion of true merit must be levelled against some doctrine of theirs ; but they held good works to be necessary as means to an end , and therefore this could not be the meaning of the council . suarez saith , the words of the council ought to be specially observed , which are , that there is nothing wanting in the good works of justified persons , ut vere promeruisse censeantur ; and therefore no metaphorical or improper , but that which by the sense of the church of rome was accounted true merit in opposition to what was said by those accounted hereticks must be understood thereby . . others say , that a meer congruity arising from the promise and favour of god in rewarding the acts of his grace in justified persons cannot be the proper merit intended by the council . and that for these reasons . . suarez observes that although the council avoids the terms ex condigno , yet because it still uses the words vere mereri , it implies something more than mere congruity ; and because it speaks of meriting the increase of grace , and not the first grace ; now a congruity is allowed for the first grace , which it excludes by mentioning the increase . and withal , it brings places to prove that the giving the reward must be a retribution of justice , and if so , the merit must be more than that of congruity . . because god's promise doth not give any intrinsick value to the nature of the act ; no more than his threatning doth increase the nature of guilt . if the king of persia had promised a province to him that gave him a draught of water , the act it self had been no more meritorious ; but it only shewed the munificence of the prince ; no more do god's promises of eternal life add any merit to the acts of grace , but onely set forth the infinite bounty of the promiser . . in the conference at ratisbon ( the year this decree passed ) by the emperour's order the protestant party did yield , that by virtue of god's promise the reward of eternal life was due to justified persons ; as a father promising a great reward to his son for his pains in studying , makes it become due to him , although there be no proportion between them . and if no more were meant by merit of congruity , than that it was very agreeable to the divine nature to reward the acts of his own grace with an infinite reward , they would yield this too . . cardinal pallavicini gives us the plain and true meaning of the council , viz. that a merit de congruo was allowed for works before justification ; but for works after , they all agreed , he saith , that there was a merit de condigno in them both for increase of grace and eternal glory . by merit de condigno is meant such an intrinsick value in the nature of the act as makes the reward in justice to be due to it . some call one of these , meritum secundum quid ; which is the same with de congruo ; which really deserves no reward , but receives it onely from the liberality of the giver ; and this hath not truly , say they , the notion of merit ; but that which makes the reward due is simple and true merit , when it doth not come merely from the kindness of the giver , but from respect to the worthiness of the action and the doer , and this is de condigno . let us now see what catholick tradition there was for this doctrine , and whether this were taught them by their fathers in a continued succession down from the apostles times . but that there was a change as to the sense of the church in this matter , i shall prove in the first place from an office which was allow'd in the church before , and forbidden after . it was an office with respect to dying persons , wherein are these questions . q. dost thou believe that thou shalt come to heaven , not by thy own merits , but by the virtue and merit of christ 's passion ? a. i do believe it . q. dost thou believe that christ died for our salvation , and that none can be saved by their own merits , or any other way but by the merits of his passion ? a. i do believe it . now when the indices expurgatorii were made in pursuance to the order of the council of trent , this passage was no longer endured . for , in the roman index the ordo baptizandi , wherein this question was , is forbidden till it were corrected . but the spanish indices explain the mystery ; that of cardinal quiroga saith expresly , those questions and answers must be blotted out ; and the like we find in the index of soto major and san●oval . what now is the reason , that such questions and answers were no longer permitted , if the churches tradition continued still the same ? was not this a way to know the tradition of the church by the offices used in it ? this was no private office then first used , but although the prohibition mentions one impression at venice ( as though there had been no more ) i have one before me , printed by gryphius at venice two years before that ; and long before with the praeceptorium of lyra , a. d. . where the question to the dying person is in these words , si credit se merito passionis christi & non propriis ad gloriam pervenire ? et respondeat , credo . and the same questions and answers i have in a sacerdotale romanum printed by nicolinus at venice . cardinal hosius says that he had seen these questions and answers in the sacerdotale romanum and in the hortulus animae ; and that they were believed to be first prescribed by anselm , archbishop of canterbury . on what account now , come these things to be prohibited and expunged , if the churches doctrine and tradition about this matter , be still the very same ? no doubt it was believed that the council of trent had now so far declared the sense of the church another way , that such questions and a●s●●rs were no longer to be endured . but before the council of trent the canons of colen against hermannus their bishop , when he published his reformation , declare , that god's giving eternal life up on good works is ex gratuita dignatione suae clementiae , from the favour which god vouchsafes to them . which to my apprehension is inconsistent with the notion of true merit in the works themselves ; for if there be any condignity in them , it cannot be mere grace and favour in god to reward them . the same canons in their enchiridion some years before , when they joyned with their bishop , call it stupidity to think that good works are rewarded with eternal life for any dignity in the works themselves . and if there be no dignity in them , there can be no true merit ; as the council of trent determines with an anathema . pope adrian vi. gives such an account of the merit of our works , that he could never imagine any condignity in them to eternal life . for , saith he , our merits are a broken reed , which pierce the hand of him that leans upon them ; they are a menstruous cloth , and our best actions mixt with impurities ; and when we have done all that we can , we are unprofitable servants . petrus de alliaco cardinal of cambray attributes no other effect to good works than of causa sine qua non ; and saith that the reward is not to be attributed to any virtue in them , but to the will of the giver . which i think overthrows any true merit . gabriel biel attributes the merit of good works not to any intrinsecal goodness in them , but to god's acceptation . which is in words to assert merit , and in truth to deny it ; for , how can there be true merit in the works , if all their value depends upon divine acceptance ? thomas walden charges wickliff with asserting the doctrine of merit and incouraging men to trust in their own righteousness , and he quotes scripture and fathers against it ; and he blames the use of the term of merit either ex congruo or ex condigno : which he saith was an invention of some late schoolmen , and was contrary to the ancient doctrine of the church . as he proves , not only from scripture and fathers , but from the ancient offices too : as in the canon of the mass , non aestimator meriti , seá veni● quaesumus largitor , &c. fer. . pass . ut qui de meritorum qualitate diffidimus , non judicium tuum sed miseric●rdiam cons●quamur . dom. . adv. ubi nulla suppetunt sufsragia meritorum , tuae nobis indulgentiae succurre praesidtis . how comes the doctrine condemned in wickliff to be established in the council of trent ? for he was blamed for asserting true merit , and the council asserts it with an anathema to those that deny it . and yet we must believe the very same tradition to have been in the church all this while . vega saith , that walden speaks against merits without grace ; but any one that reads him will find it otherwise , for he produces those passages out of the fathers against merits which do suppose divine grace , as it were easie to shew ; but friar walden thought the notion of merit inconsistent with the power and influence of divine grace necessary to our best actions . god , saith he , doth not regard merit either as to congruity or condignity , but his own grace , and will , and mercy . marsilius de ingen who lived before walden reckons up three opinions about merit ; the first of those who denied it , and of this , saith he , durandus seems to be , and one job . de everbaco . the second of those who said that our works have no merit of themselves , but as informed by d●●ine grace , and from the assistance of the holy ghost , so they do t●uly merit eternal life , and of this opinion he saith was thomas de argentina . the third was , of those who granted that true merit doth imply an equality , but then they distinguish equality , as to quantity and as to proportion , and in this latter sense they asserted an equality . and of this opinion he saith was petrus de tarantasia . but he delivers his own judgment in these conclusions . . that our works either considered in themselves or with divine grace are not meritorious of eternal life ex condigno , which he proves both from scripture and reason , viz. because . no man can make god a debtor to him ; for the more grace he hath the more he is a debtor to god. ana . he cannot merit of another by what he receives from him . and . no man can pay what he owes to god , and therefore can never merit at his hands . . no man can merit here so much grace as to keep him from falling away from grace ; much less then eternal life . . these works may be said to be meritorious of eternal life ex condigno by divine acceptation originally proceeding from the merit of christ's passion , because that makes them worthy . but this is christ's merit and not the true merit of our works . . works done by grace do merit eternal life de congruo from god's liberal disposition , whereby he hath appointed so to reward them . it beeing agreeable to him to give glory to them that love him . but this is an improper kind of merit , and can by no means support the tradition of true merit . durandus utterly denies any true merit of man towards god ; he doth not deny it in a large improper sense for such a condignity in our actions as god hath appointed in order to a reward ; which is by the grace of god in us ; but as it is taken for a free action to which a reward is in justice due ; because whatever we doe is more owing to the grace of god than to our selves ; but to make a debtor to us , we must not only pay an equivalent to what we owe , but we must go beyond it ; but to god and our parents we can never pay an equivalent , much less exceed it . and we can never merit by what god gives us , because the gift lays a greater obligation upon us . and he saith , the holding the contrary is temerarious and blasphemous . the two grounds of holding merit were , the supposing a proportion between grace and glory , and an equality between divine grace and glory in vertue , grace being as the seed of glory ; and to both these he answers . to the first , that the giving a reward upon merit is no part of distributive , but commutative justice , because it respects the relation of one thing to another , and not the mere quality of the person . to the second , that the value of an act is not considered with respect to the first mover , but to the immediate agent : and as to grace being the seed of glory , it is but a metaphorical expression , and nothing can be drawn from it . so that durandus concludes true merit with respect to god to be temerarious , blasphemous and impossible . ockam declares , that after all our good works god may without injustice deny eternal life to them who do them ; because god can be debtor to none ; and therefore whatever he doth to us , it is out of mere grace . and that there can be nothing meritorious in any act of ours , but from the grace of god freely accepting it . and therefore he must deny any true merit . gregorius ariminensis saith , that no act of ours though coming from grace to never so great a degree , is meritorious with god ex condigno of any reward either temporal or eternal ; because every such act is a gift of god ; and if it were at all meritorious , yet not as to eternal life , because there is no equivalency between them , and therefore it cannot in justice be due to it ; and consequently if god gives it , he must do it freely . but , saith he , god is said to be just , when he gives bona pro bonis , and merciful , when he gives bona pro malis ; not but that he is merciful in both , but because his mercy appears more in the latter ; and in the other , it seems like justice in a general sense from the conformity of the merit and the reward ; but in this particular retribution it is mere mercy . scotus affirms , that all the meritoriousness of our acts depends on divine acceptation in order to a reward ; and if it did depend on the intrinsick worth of the acts , god could not in justice deny the reward ; which is false ; and therefore it wholly depends on the good will and favour of god. bellarmin is aware of this , and he confesses this to be the opinion of scotus and of other old schoolmen . but how then do they hold the doctrine and tradition of true merit ? he holds that good works are properly and truly good . so do we , and yet deny merit . but he grants , that he denies that they bear any proportion to eternal life , and therefore they cannot be truly meritorious of it . bellarmin himself asserts that without the divine promise good works have a proportion to eternal life , and this he saw was necessary to defend the doctrine of the council of trent ; but then he adds , that there is no obligation on god's part to reward in such a manner without a promise . now here are two hard points , . to make it appear that there is such a meritoriousness in good works without a divine promise . . that if there were so , there is no obligation on god to reward such acts in point of justice . the former is so much harder to do from what he had proved before , c. . viz. that they are not meritorious without a promise ; and here he proves that they have no proportion to the reward , from scripture , fathers and reason ; because there is no obligation on god to do it , either from commutative or distributive justice ; and because we are god's servants . these are good arguments against himself for how can such acts then become meritorious without a promise ? if there be no proportion or equality on man's part , no justice on god's part to reward , how can they possibly be meritorious ? but this is too deep for me to comprehend . my business is tradition , and i have evidently proved that there was no tradition even in the church of rome for the true merit defined by the council of trent . it were easie to carry this point higher , by she wing that the fathers knew nothing of this doctrine , but that hath been done by many already , and it is needless in so plain a case . but i am now to give an account by what steps and occasions this doctrine came to be established . . from the common use of the word merit with the fathers and others , in another sense than it signified at first . the original signification of it is wages paid in consideration of service ; and from thence souldiers were said merere ( as budaeus observes , and thence came the word merces ) who truly deserved their pay by their labour and hazard ; but by degrees it came to signifie no more than merely to attain a thing ; which is sometimes used by good authors ; but in the declension of the latin tongue no sense of this word was more common than this , especially among ecclesiastical writers . who frequently used it in a sense wherein it was impossible to understand it in its original signification ; and it cannot imply so much as digne consequi , as in the instance brought by cassander ; when st. cyprian renders those words of st. paul , misericordiam merui , which we render , i obtained mercy ; but the council of trent allows there could be no true merit here . and st. augustin saith of those who murdered the son of god , illi veniam meruerunt qui christum occiderunt . and so the vulgar latin often uses it , gen. . . major est iniquitas mea quam ut veniam merear . jos. . . & non mererentur ullam clementiam . and in that sense it hath been used in the hymns and other offices of the church , as in that expression , o felix culpa quae talem ac tantum meruit habere redemptorem ! where it cannot be denied that the word is used in an improper sense . . when the school divines set themselves to explain the mysteries of theology , this plain and easie , but improper sense of merit , would not go down with som of them ; but they endeavoured to make out the notion of merit with respect to god , in its proper and original sense . the last considerable writer before the scholastick age , was st. bernard , and he pretended not to find out any such proportion between the best works and eternal life , that god should be bound in justice to bestow it as a recompence for them ; and the reason he gives is plain and strong , because those things men pretend to merit by , are themselves the gifts of god's grace , and so by them they are more bound to god , than god to them ; but besides , what are all mens merits to eternal glory ? st. bernard doth not speak of merits without grace , but with the supposition of it ; and bellarmin wisely left out the latter part , that he might seem to answer the former . hugo de sancto victore lived in the same age , who first shewed the way to school divinity , and upon the same place which st. bernard speaks of , non sunt condig nae , &c. he puts the question , how any temporal acts can merit that which is eternal ? and he denies any condignity , because there is more in the reward than there was in the merit ; but then he adds , that there may be a threefold comparison of things ; either as to themselves , as a horse for a horse , money for money ; or according to equity , either in punishments or rewards ; or by pact or agreement , as when a good summ is promised for a little work ; and this , saith he , god hath made known to mankind as to future rewards and punishments . which plainly shews , he understood nothing of the proportion between acts of grace , and an eternal happiness ; but resolved all into the favour and mercy of god. peter lombard , called the master of the sentences , saith , nothing of any condignity or proportion in our works to the reward ; but , he saith , they are themselves god 's gifts , and that the reward it self is from the grace of god , and quotes the noted saying of st. augustin , cum coronat deus merita nostra , nihil aliud coronat quam dona sua . but still this is nothing but grace and favour in god , first in enabling us to do good works , and then in rewarding them . bandinus wrote a book of the sentences much about the time p. lombard did , with so much agreement of method and expressions , that it is not known which took from the other . genebrard hath produced this passage out of him , debet , inciviliter de deo dicitur , quia nihil omnino nobis debet , nisi ex promisso . if it be so rude to say god owes any thing to his creatures but by promise , he could not imagine any condignity in good works , to which a reward is due in justice . and genebrard thinks he had reason to deny , that god can be made a debtor to us by any of our works . robertus pullus , who wrote another book of the sentences about the same time , mentioning that place , non sunt condignae , &c. he saith , because our works are not sufficient , being small and temporal , god by his mercy makes it up ; which not onely shews that god doth reward beyond our merit , but that there is no proportion between the best works and eternal glory . but by the time of gulielmus antissiodorensis , there were two parties in the church about this point ; some , he saith , denied any merit of eternal life , ex condigno , and others asserted it ; and after laying down the arguments on both sides , he concludes for the affirmative ; but in answer to the place , non sunt condignae , &c. he saith they are not ad proportionaliter merendum , but they are ad simpliciter merendum ; so that still he denied any proportion , though he held simple merit . but thomas aquinas coming after him , denies that there can be any simple merit with respect to god , because that cannot be where there is so great inequality ; and so there can be no equal justice between them , but ac●ording to a proportion ; which he afterwards explains , viz. as to the substance and freedom of our good works there is onely a congruity ; but as they proceed from divine grace , so they are meritorious of eternal life , ex condigno . this doctrine had some followers in the schools , but not many in comparison of those who opposed it , as appears by what is said already . richardus de mediavilla , though a franciscan , follows herein the doctrine of aquinas , and asserts , that by acts of free will , informed by grace , a man may merit eternal life , ex condigno , and he adds somewhat more , potest certissime ; and he uses the same answers to the objections which the other did . and nich. de orbellis follows richardus , so that aquinas his doctrine had prevailed beyond his own school . but it was as vehemently opposed by others of that fraternity , among whom cardinal hosius mentions stephanus brulifer , who maintained , that no act of grace , how good soever , was worthy of eternal life . paulus burgensis , though he is said to have been converted from being a jew , by reading aquinas , yet utterly dissented from him in this matter : for he saith , that no man can by the ordinary assistance of grace merit eternal life ex condigno , and therefore the mercy of god is most seen in heaven . however the reputation of aquinas might gain upon some , yet this was very far then from being a catholick tradition . but no council ever interposed its authority in this matter , till the council of trent , which resolved to carry the points in difference to the height , and to establish every thing that was questioned . nothing had been more easie than to have given satisfaction in this matter , considering what pighius and contarenus , and even genebrard , had yielded in it ; but there the rule was , that every thing that was disputed , must be determined first , and then defended . and so it hath happened with this decree , which , lest we should think the matter capable of softening , hath been since asserted in the highest manner . bellarmin asserts good works of themselves , and not merely by compact , to be meritorious of eternal life , so that in them there is a certain proportion and equality to eternal life . costerus saith , that in works of grace , there is an equality between the work and the reward . suarez , that they have an intrinsecal dignity , whereby they become worthy of eternal life . vasquez , that there is an equality of dignity between good works and eternal life , without which a promise could not make true merit . the rhemists say , that good works are truly and properly meritorious , and justly worthy of everlasting life ; and that thereupon heaven is the just due , and just stipend , crown or recompence , which god by his justice oweth to the persons so doing by his grace . and again , that good works are meritorious , and the very cause of salvation . so far that god should be unjust , if he rendred not heaven for the same . phil. gamachaeus , a late professour of divinity in the sorbon , speaks it roundly , that the council of trent did plainly mean to establish merit ex condigno , and that all catholicks are agreed in it . the last defender of the council of trent within these few years , saith , that there is an intrinsecal condignity in good works , whereby they bear a proportion commensurate with the glory of heaven . and without such doctrine as this , he doth not think the council of trent can be defended in this matter . if after all it be said , that this is a mere subtilty concerning the proportion an act of grace bears to the state of glory ; i answer , the more to blame they , who have made and imposed it as a matter of faith , as the council of trent hath done with an anathema , and that without any pretence from catholick tradition . but what made the council of trent so much concerned for a scholastick subtilty ? there was a deep mystery lay in this , they were wise enough to frame the decree so , as to avoid offence , and to make it appear plausible , but it was enough to the people to understand that the merit of good works was allowed , and they were to believe the priests , both as to the good works they were to do , and as to the putting them into a state of grace , to make them capable of meriting . and this was the true reason of the anathema , against those who should deny the true merit of good works . v. of the number of sacraments . the council of trent pronounces an anathema in these words , if any one saith that the sacraments of the new law were not all appointed by jesus christ our lord , or that they were more or fewer than seven , viz. baptism , confirmation , eucharist , penance , extreme unction , orders and matrimony , or that any one of these is not truly and properly a sacrament , let him be anathema . but what is it to be truly and properly a sacrament ? it had been very reasonable to have defined a sacrament first truly and properly , before such an anathema passed . but that defect may be said to be supplied by the roman catechism , published by authority of the council ; and there we are told , that a sacrament is a sensible thing , which by divine institution hath a power of causing as well as signifying holiness and righteousness . so that to a true and proper sacrament two things are necessary : . that it be of divine institution . . that it confer grace on those who partake of it . and by these we must examin the catholick tradition about the number of sacraments . bellarmin saith , that all their divines , and the whole church for years , viz. from the time of the master of the sentences , have agreed in the number of the seven sacraments . here we see is a bold appeal to tradition for years ; but although , if it were proved , it cannot be sufficient to prove an apostolical tradition ; for the fathers might for a thousand years have held the contrary ; and i do not think one clear testimony can be produced out of antiquity for that number of sacraments , truly so called ; yet i shall at present wholly wave the debate of the former times , and confine my self to bellarmin's years ; and i hope to make it appear there was no universal tradition for it within his own time . for alexander hales ( who wrote , saith possevin , his summ of divinity by order of innocent iv. and it was approved by alexander iv. with seventy divines , ) affirms , there were but four proper sacraments ; now if this were the catholick tradition then , that there were seven proper sacraments , how could this doctrine pass , and be so highly approved ? he saith farther , that christ himself only appointed two , viz. baptism and the lord's supper ; and for the rest , he saith , it may be presumed the apostles did appoint them by christ's direction , or by divine i●spiration . but how can that be , when he saith , the form even of those he calls proper sacraments , was either appointed by our lord or by the church ? how can such sacraments be of divine institution , whose very form is appointed by the church ? he puts the question himself , why christ appointed the form only of two sacraments , when all the grace of the sacraments comes from him ? he answers , because these are the principal sacraments which unite the whole man in the body of the church by faith and charity . but yet this doth not clear the difficulty , how those can be proper sacraments , whose form is not of divine institution ; as he grants in the sacrament of penance and orders , the form is of the churches appointment . and this will not only reach to this gre●t school divine , but to as many others as hold it in the churches power to appoint or alter the matter and form of some of those they call sacraments . for , however they may use the name , they can never agree with the council of trent in the nature of the seven sacraments , which supposes them to be of divine institution , as to matter and form. and so the divines of the church of rome have agreed since the council of trent . bellarmin hath a chapter on purpose to shew , that the matter and form of sacraments are so certain and determinate , that nothing can be changed in them ; and this determination must be by god himself . which , he saith , is most certain among them ; and he proves it by a substantial reason , viz. because the sacraments are the causes of grace ; and no one can give grace but god , and therefore none else can appoint the essentials of sacraments but he , and therefore he calls it sacrilege to change even the matter of sacraments . suarez asserts , that both the matter and form of sacraments are determined by christ's institution , and as they are determined by him , they are necessary to the making of sacraments . and this ( he saith ) absolutely speaking , is de pide , or an article of faith. and he proves it from the manner of christ's instituting baptism and the eucharist , and he urges the same reason , because christ only can conf●r grace by the sacraments , and therefore he must appoint the matter and form of them . cardinal lugo affirms , that christ hath appointed both matter and form of the sacraments , which he proves from the council of trent . he thinks christ might have grant●d a commission to his church to appoint sacraments , which he would make efficacious , but he reither believes that he hath done it , or that it was fitting to be done . petr●s à sancto joseph saith , that although the council of trent doth not expresly affirm the sacraments to be immediately instituted by christ ; yet it is to be so understood . and although the church may appoint sacramentalia , i. e. rites about the sacraments ; yet christ himself must appoint the sacraments themselves ; and he concludes , that no creature can have authority to make sacraments conferring grace ; and therefore he declares that christ did appoint the forms of all the sacraments himself , although we do not read them in scripture . if now it appears that some even of the church of rome before the council of trent , did think it in the churches power to appoint or alter the matter and form of some of those they called sacraments , then it will evidently follow they had not the same tradition about the seven sacraments which is there deliver'd . of chrism . the council of trent declares the matter of confirmation to be chrism , viz. a composition made of o●l of olive and balsam ; the one to signifie the clearness of conscience , the other the odour of a good fame , saith the council of florence . but where was this chrism appointed by christ ? marsilius saith from petrus aureolus , that there was a controversie between the divines and ca●●●ists about this matter ; and the latter affirmed that chris●● was not appointed by christ , but ast●●wards by th● church ; and that the pope could dispense with it ; which he could not do if it were of christ's insti●●●ion . petrus aureolus was himself a great man in the church of rome ; and after he had mentioned this difference , and named one brocardus ( or bernardus ) with other canonists for it ; he doth not affirm the contrary to be a catholick tradition ; but himself asserts the chrism not to be necessary to the sacrament of confirmation ; which he must have done if he had believed it of divine institution . gregory de valentia on the occasion of this opinion of the canonists , that confirmation might be without chrism , saith two notable things . . that they were guilty of heresie therein : for which he quotes dominicus soto . . that he thinks there were no canonists left of that mind . if not , the change was greater ; since it is certain they were of that opinion before . for guido brianson attests , that there was a difference between the divines and canonists about this matter ; for bernard the glosser and others held , that chrism was not necessary to it , because it was neither appointed by christ nor his apostles , but in some ancient councils . guil. antissiodorensis long before mentions the opinion of those who said that chrism was appointed by the church after the apostles times ; and that they confirmed only by imposition of hands ; but he doth not condemn it ; only he thinks it better to hold that the apostles used chrism , although we never read that they did it . but he doth not lay that opinion only on the canonists ; for there were divines of great note of the same . for , bonaventure saith , that the apostles made use neither of their matter nor form in their confirmation ; and his resolution is , that they were appointed by the governors of the church afterwards ; as his master alexander of hale had said besore him , who attributes the institution of both to a council of meaux . cardinal de vitriaco saith , that confirmation by imposition of hands was srom the apostles ; but by chrism from the church ; for we do not read that the apostles used it . thomas aquinas confesses there were different opinions about the institution of this sacrament ; some held that it was not instituted by christ nor his apostles , but afterwards in a certain council . but he never blames these for contradicting catholick tradition although he dislikes their opinion . cajetan on aquinas saith , that chrism with balsam was appointed by the church after the primitive times ; and yet now , this must be believed to be essential to this sacrament ; and by conink it seems to be heretical to deny it . for he affirms , that it seems to be an article of faith that confirmation must be with chrism , and no catholick , he saith , now denies it . which shews , that he believed the sense of the church not to have been always the same about it . but others speak out , as gregory de valentia , suarez , filliucius and tanner , who say absolutely , it is now a matter of faith to hold chrism to be essential to confirmation ; and that it is now not onely erroneous but heretical to deny it . their testimonies are at large produced by petrus aurelius , or the famous abbat of s. cyran . and even he grants it to be heresie since the council of trent ; but he yields that alensis , bonaventure and de vitri●co all held that opinion , which was made heresie by it . from whence it follows , that there hath been a change in the doctrine of the roman church about confirmation by chrism . for if it be heresie now to assert that which was denied without any reproach before , the tradition cannot be said to continue the same . thus we have seen there was no certain tradition for the matter of this sacrament , and as little is there for the form of it . which is , consigno te signo crucis , & confirmo te chrismate salutis in nomine patris , &c. but sirmondus produces another form out of s. ambrose , deus pater omnipotens , qui te regeneravit ex aqua & spirit● sancto , concessitque tibi peccata tua , ipse te ungat in vitam aeternam . and from thence concludes the present form not to be ancient ; and he confesses that both matter and form of this sacrament are changed . which was an ingenuous confession ; but his adversary takes this advantage from it ; that then the sacrament it self must ●e changed , if both matter and form were ; and then the church must be a very unfaithful keeper of tradition ; which i think is unanswerable . suarez proposes the objection fairly both as to the matter and form of this sacrament , that we read nothing of them in scripture , and tradition is very various about them ; but his answer is very insufficient , viz. that though it be not in scripture , yet they have them by tradition from the apostles ; now that is the very thing which sirmondus disproves , and shew that the church of rome is clearly gone off from tradition here both as to matter and form. of orders . i proceed to the sacrament of orders . it it impossible for those of the church of rome to prove this a true and proper sacrament , on their own grounds . for , they assert that such a one must have matter and form appointed by christ ; but that which they account the matter and form of orders were neither of them of christ's institution . the council of florence , they say , hath declared both ; the matter is that , by the delivery whereof the order is confer'd , as that of priesthood by the delivery of the chalice with the wine , and the paten with the bread ; and the form is , accipe potestatem offerendi sacrificium in ecclesia pro vivis & mortuis . now if neither of these be owned by themselves to have been appointed by christ , then it necessarily follows , that they cannot hold this to be a true and proper sacrament . imposition of hands they grant was used by the apostles , and still continued in the christian church ; and bellarmin confesses that nothing else can be proved by scripture to be the external symbol in this sacrament . and others are forced to say , that christ hath not determined the matter and form of this sacrament particularly , but hath left a latitude in it for the church to determin it . which in my opinion is clear giving up the cause , as to this sacrament . it is observed by arcudius , that the council of trent doth not declare the particular matter and form of this sacrament , but only in general , that it is performed by words and external signs , sess. . c. . from whence he infers , that the outward sign was left to the churches determination ; and he saith , that christ did particularly appoint the matter and form of some sacraments , as of baptism , and the lord's supper , and extreme unction , but not of others ; and therefore in the sacrament of orders , he saith , christ determined no more but that it should be conveyed by some visible sign ; and so it may be either by the delivering the vessels , or by the imposition of hands , or both . but we are to consider that the council of florence was received by the council of trent ; and that it is impossible to reconcile this doctrin with the general definition of a sacrament by the roman catechism , viz. that it is a sensible thing which by the institution of christ hath a power of causing as well as signifying grace ; which implies that the external sign which conveys grace must be appointed by the authour of the sacrament it self ; or else the church must have power to annex divine grace to its own appointments . but here lies the main difficulty , the church of rome hath altered both matter and form of this sacrament from the primitive institution ; and yet it dares not disallow the ordinations made without them , as is notorious in the case of the greek church ; and therefore they have been forced to allow this latitude as to the matter and form of this sacrament ; although such an allowance doth really overthrow its being a true and proper sacrament on their own grounds . yet this doctrine hath very much prevailed of late among their chief writers . cardinal lugo confesses , that of old priesthood was conferred by imposition of hands with suitable words ; and he saw it himself so done at rome , without delivering the vessels by catholick greek bishops . he saith farther , that the fathers and councils are so plain for the conferring priesthood by imposition of hands , that no one can deny it ; but yet he must justifie the roman church in assuming new matter and form , which he doth by asserting that christ left the church at liberty as to them . nicol. ysambertus debates the point at large , and his resolution of it is , that christ determined only the general matter , but the particular sign was left to the church ; and he proves by induction that the church hath appointed the external sign in this sacrament , and as to the order of priesthood he proves that imposition of hands was of old an essential part of it , but now it is only accidental . franciscus hallier confesses the matter of this sacrament to have been different in different times . in the apostles times and many ages after , hardly any other can be found but imposition of hands , as he proves from scripture and fathers . he carries his proofs down as low as the synod of aken in the time of ludovicus pius , and the council of m●aux , a. d. . but afterwards he saith , that by the council of florence and the common opinion of their divines , the delivery of the vessels is the essential matter of this sacrament . here we find a plain change in the matter of a sacrament owned after the continuance of above years ; and yet we must believe the tradition of this church to have been always the same . which is impossible by the confession of their own writer . he cannot tell just the time when the change was made , but he concludes it was before the time of the vetus ordo romanus , which mentions the vessels . petrus a sancto joseph saith , that by christ's institution there is a latitude allowed in the matter of orders ; but he shews not where ; but he thinks , of it self it consists in the delivery of the vessels , but by the pope's permission imposition of hands may be sufficient . which is a doctrin which hath neither scripture , reason nor tradition for it . joh. morinus shews that there are five opinions in the church of rome about the matter of this sacrament . the first and most common is that it consists in the delivery of the vessels . the second , that imposition of hands together with that makes up the matter . the third , that they convey two different powers . the fourth , that unction with imposition of hands is the matter . the fifth , that imposition of hands alone is it ; and this , saith he , the whole church , greek and latin , ever owned ; but he saith , he can bring two demonstrations against the first , i. e. against the general sense of the now roman church . . from the practice of the greek church , which never used it . . from the old rituals of the latin church , which do not mention them ; and he names some above years old ; and in none of them he finds either the matter or form of this sacrament , as it is now practised in the church of rome ; nor in isidore , alcuinus , amalarius , rabanus maurus , valafridus strabo , although they wrote purposely about these things . he thinks it was first received into the publick offices in the tenth age. afterwards he saith , he wonders how it came about that any should place the essential matter of ordination only in delivery of the vessels , and exclude the imposition of hands , which alone is mentioned by scripture and fathers . and again he saith , it strikes him with astonishment that there should be such an alteration , both as to matter and form. and at last he saith , christ hath determined no particular matter and form in this sacrament . but still the difficulty returns , how this can be a true and proper sacrament , whose matter and form depend on divine institution , when they confess there was no divine institution for the matter and form in orders ? bellarmin ( as is proved before ) hath a chapter on purpose to prove that the matter and form of sacraments are so determin'd , that it is not lawful to add , diminish or alter them ; and he charges it on luther as a part of his heresie , that no certain form of words was required to sacraments : and he makes it no less than sacrilege to change the matter of them . so that all such who hold the matter and form in orders to be mutable , must either charge the church of rome with sacrilege , or deny orders to be a true and proper sacrament . of the sacrament of penance . the next new sacrament is that of penance . they are agreed , that matter and form are both necessary to a true and proper sacrament . the matter is the external or sensible sign ; and what is that in this new sacrament ? there are two things necessary to the matter of a sacrament : . that it be an external and sensible sign ; which s. augustin calls an element in that known expression , accedat verbum ad elementum , & fit sacramentum ; which bellarmin would have understood only of baptism there spoken of ; but s. augustin's meaning goes farther , as appears by his following discourse , and immediately he calls a sacrament verbum visibile ; and therefore cannot be applied to words as they are heard , for so they have nothing of a sacramental sign in them . how then can contrition make up any part of the matter of a sacrament , when it is not external ? how can confession , when it is no visible sign , nor any permanent thing as an element must be ? how can satisfaction be any part of the sacrament , which may be done when the effect of the sacrament is over in absolution ? . there must be a resemblance between the sign and the thing signified . which st. augustin is so peremptory in , that he denies there can be any sacrament where there is no resemblance . and from hence , he saith , the signs take the name of the thing signified ; as after a certain manner the sacrament of the body of christ is the body of christ. and this was looked on as so necessary , that hugo de sancto victore and peter lombard both put it into the definition of a sacrament , as suarez confesses , viz. that it is the visible appearance of invisible grace , which bears the similitude , and is the cause of it . but this is left out of the definition in the roman catechism , and suarez thinks it not necessary , for the same reason ; because it is very hard to understand the similitude between words spoken in confession , and the grace supposed to be given by absolution , any more than in the words of abrenunciation , and the grace of baptism . how can the act of the penitent signifie the grace conveyed in absolution ? for there is no effect of the sacrament till absolution , by their own confession ; and therefore the acts of the penitent being antecedent to it , and of a different nature from it , can have no such resemblance with it , as to signifie or represent it . however the councils of florence and trent have declared , that the acts of the penitent , viz. contrition , confession and satisfaction , are as the matter in the sacrament . quasi materia : what is this quasi materia ? why not , are the matter ? is not true matter necessary to a true sacrament ? if there be none true here , then this can be but quasi sacramentum , as it were a sacrament , and not truly and properly so . but if it be true matter , why is it not so declared ? but common sense hindred them , and not the difference between the matter here and in other sacraments . for in the definition of sacraments they were to regard the truth , and not the kind of matter . they are not solid and permanent matter , saith bellarmin ; not matter externally applied , saith soto ; not any substance but humane acts , saith vasquez ; but none of these clear the point . for still if it be true matter of a sacrament , why was it not so declared ? why such a term of diminution added , as all men must understand it , who compare it with the expressions about the other sacraments ? but they knew very well there was a considerable party in the church of rome , who denied the acts of the penitent to be the matter or parts of this sacrament . the council of colen ( but little before the council of trent ) excludes the acts of the penitent from any share in this sacrament : which bellarmin denies not , but blames gropperus , the supposed author of the enchiridion . but gropperus was thought fit to be a cardinal as well as bellarmin ; and certainly knew the tradition of the church if there had been any such in this matter . the council of florence , it is plain , he thought not to be a sufficient declarer of it . no more did joh. major , who after it denied this sacrament to consist of matter and form , or that the acts of the penitent were the parts of it . so did gabriel biel , who refutes the contrary opinion , and saith contrition can be no part , because it is no sensible sign ; and satisfaction may be done after it . so that he cuts off two parts in three of the matter of this pretended sacrament . guido brianson , who lived after the council of florence supposes no certain tradition in the church about this matter ; but he sets down both opinions with their reasons , and prefers that which excludes the acts of the penitent from being parts of the sacrament ; although the florentine council had declared the contrary . durandus rejects two parts in three of those declared by the two councils , and for the same reasons mentioned by biel. ockam absolutely denies all three to be parts of the sacrament . and so did scotus before him ; whose words are remarkable , de poenitentiae sacramento dico , quod illa tria nullo modo sunt partes ejus , viz. these three are by no means any part of the sacrament of penance ; and yet the council of trent not only declares that they are so , but denounces an anathema against him that denies them to be required , as the matter of the sacrament of penance . and let any one by this judge what catholick tradition it proceeded upon ; when some of the greatest divines in the church of rome were of another opinion . as to the form of this sacrament the council of trent denounces an anathema against thesewho affirm absolution to be only declarative of the remission of sins : and yet i shall prove that this was the more current doctrin , even in the church of rome , up to the master of the sentences . gabriel biel saith , the ancient doctors did commonly follow it ; but it was supposed by scotus , because it seemed to take off from the efficacy of absolution , and consequently make it no sacrament , which is a cause of grace . but after he hath set down scotus his arguments , he saith , that opinion were very desirable , if it had any foundation in scripture or fathers . and to his arguments he answers , that true contrition obtains pardon with god , before sacerdotal absolution , but not with the church ; and that contrition supposes a desire of absolution ; which will never hold to make absolution to confer the grace of remission , if the sin be really forgiven before . for what is the desire of the penitent to the force of the sacrament administred by the priest ? and he saith , they all grant , that by true and sufficient contrition the sin is forgiven without the sacrament in act , i. e. the actual receiving absolution . so that here was an universal tradition as to the power of contrition , but in the other they had different opinions . marsilius saith , that god forgives sin upon contrition authoritatively ; the priests absolution is ministerial in the court of conscience , and before the church . and those sins which god ●irst absolves from principally and authentically , the priest afterwards absolves from in right of the church , as its minister . tostatus saith , that the priests absolution follows god's . ockam , that the priests then bind and loose , when they shew men to be bound or loosed ; and for this he relies on the master of the sentences . thomas de argentina , that the power of the keys doth extend to the remission of the fault which was done before by contrition ; but it tends to the increase of grace in the person . gulielmus antissiodore , that contrition takes away the guilt and punishment of sin , as to god and conscience , but not as to the church , for a man is still bound to undergo the penance which the church enjoyns him . bonaventure , that absolution presupposes grace ; for no priest would absolve any one whom he did not presume god had absolved before . alexander hales , that where god doth not begin in absolution , the priest cannot make it up . but the master of the sentences himself most fully handles this point ; and shews from the fathers , that god alone can remit sin both as to the fault and the punishment due to it . and the power of the keys , he saith , is like the priests judgment about leprosie in the levitical law , god healed the person , and the priest declared him healed . or as our saviour first raised lazarus , then gave him to his disciples to be loosed . he is loosed before god , but not in the face of the church but by the priests judgment . another way , he saith , priests bind by enjoyning penance , and they loose by remitting it , or readmitting persons to communion upon performing it . this doctrin of peter lombard's is none of those in quibus magister nontenetur ; for we see he had followers of great name , almost to the council of trent . but it happened , that both th. aquinas and scotus agreed in opposing this doctrin ; and the franciscans and dominicans bearing greatest sway in the debates of the council of trent , what they agreed in , passed for catholick tradition . and vasquez is in the right when he saith , this doctrin was condemned by the council of trent ; and so was scotus , when he said , that it did derogate from the sacrament of penance ; for in truth it makes it but a nominal sacrament , since it hath no power of conferring grace ; which the council of trent makes necessary to a true and proper sacrament . the main point in this debate is , whether true contrition be required to absolution or not ? which scotus saw well enough and argues accordingly . for none of them deny , that where there is true contrition , there is immediately an absolution before god ; and if this be required before the priests absolution , he can have no more to do , but to pronounce or declare him absolved . but if something less than contrition do qualifie a man for absolution , and by that grace be conveyed , then the power of absolution hath a great and real effect ; for it puts a man into a state of grace which he had not been in without it . and from hence came the opinion , that attrition with absolution was sufficient ; and they do not understand the council of trent's doctrin of the sacrament of penance , who deny it , as will appear to any one that reads the th chapter of the sacrament of penance , and compares it with the , and canons about sacraments in general . it is true that contrition is there said to have the first place in the acts of the penitent ; but observe what follows : true contrition reconciles a man to god , before he receives this sacrament . what hath the priest then to do , but to declare him reconciled ? but it saith not without the desire of it . suppose not , yet the thing is done upon the desire , & therefore the priests power can be no more than declarative . and that such a desire is so necessary as without contrition avails not , is more than the council hath proved , and it is barely supposed , to maintain the necessity of going to the priest for absolution ; and so it will be no more than a precept of the church , and not a condition of remission in the sacrament of penance . but afterwards , it declares that imperfect contrition or attrition doth dispose a man for the grace of god in this sacrament ; and by the general canons , the sacraments do confer grace where men are disposed . so that the council of trent did rightly comprehend the force of the power of absolution , which it gave to the priest in the sacrament of penance . but what catholick tradition could there be for the doctrin of the council of trent in thismatter , when hadrian . so little before it declares , it was a great difficulty among the doctors , whether the keys of priesthood did extend to the remission of the fault ? and for the negative he produces pet. lombard , alex. alens . and bonaventure ; and saith , that opinion is probable , because the priests power of binding and loosing is equal ; and as they cannot bind where god doth not , for they cannot retain the sins of a true penitent ; so neither can they loose where god doth not , i. e. where there is not true contrition . but because he saith others held the contrary opinion , and had probability on their side too , therefore he would determine nothing . notwithstanding this , in a few years after , the council of trent finds no difficulty , no probability in the other opinion ; but determines as boldly , as if there had been an universal tradition their way ; whereas the contrary cannot be denied by any that are conversant in the doctrin of their schools . but it was the mighty privilege of the council of trent , to make the doctrins of thomas and scotus , when they agreed , to be articles of faith ; and to denounce anathema's against opposers , although they reached to some of the greatest divines of their own church , within bellarmin's compass of years . of extreme unction . we are now to examin another pretended sacrament , viz. of extreme unction . the council of trent declares this to be a true and proper sacrament , and denounces an anathema against him that denies it to be instituted by christ , and published by st. james ; or that it confers grace and remission of sins ; or that affirms it was appointed for bodily cures . it farther declares from the place of st. james interpreted by tradition , that the matter is oil consecrated by the bishop ; the form , that which is now used , per istam unctionem , &c. the effect , the grace of the holy ghost in purging away the remainder of sin , and strengthening the soul ; and sometimes bodily cures , when it is expedient for the health of the soul. so that the primary intention of this sacrament must respect the soul , otherwise it is granted , it could not be a true and proper sacrament . so suarez saith in this case , if the external sign be not immediately appointed for a spiritual effect , it cannot prove a true sacrament of the new law ; no not although the bodily cure were designed for the strengthning of faith. and from hence he proves , that when the apostles are said to anoint the sick , and heal them , mark . . this cannot relate to the sacrament of unction , because their cures had not of themselves an immediate respect to the soul. the same reason is used by bellarmin , sacramenta per se ad animam pertinent , ad corpus per accidens aut certe secundario . the same is affirmed by maldonat , although he differs from bellarmin about the apostles anointing with oil , which bellarmin denies to have been sacramental for this reason , but maldonat affirms it ; and answers other arguments of bellarmin , but not this . gregory de valentia carries it farther , and saith , that if the anointing with oil were only a symbol of a miraculous cure , it could be no sacrament ; for that is a medium to convey supernatural grace , and then it would last no longer than the gift of miracles . so that we have no more to do , but only to prove that by the tradition of the church st. james his anointing was to be understood with respect to bodily cures in the first place . we cannot pass over so great a man as cajetan , who wrote on that place of st. james , not long before the council of trent , and a good while after the council of florence , which relies on this place for this sacrament of unction . but cajetan saith , it doth not relate to it , because the immediate effect is the cure of the party in saint james ; but in this sacrament the direct and proper effect is remission of sins . all that catharinus hath to say against this , is , that the bodily cure is not repugnant to it ; but what is this to the purpose , when the question is , what is primarily designed in this place ? the school divines , from peter lombard , had generally received this for a sacrament ; but the canonists denied it , as appears by the gloss on c. vir autem de secund . nuptiis decret . gregor . tit. . where it is said , that this unction might be repeated , being no sacrament but only prayer over a person . the roman correctors cry out it is heresie by the council of trent ; but the glosser knew no such thing ; and if it were so only by the council of trent , then not by any catholick tradition before . for , i suppose matter of heresie must reach to the canonists , as well as the divines . but the plainest determination of this matter will be by the ancient offices of the church ; for if they respected bodily cures in the first place , then it is owned there could be no tradition for any sacrament in this unction . in the ancient ordo romanus it is called benedictio olei ad omnem languorem quocunque tempore . i desire to know whether the oil so consecrated be chiefly designed for the body or the soul. and in the office it self , this place of st. james is mentioned : and then follows , te domine peritissimum medicum imploramus , ut virtutis tuae medicinam in hoc oleum propitius infundas . and a little after ; prosit pater misericordiarum , febribus & dysenteria laborantibus , prosit paralyticis , caecis & claudis simulque vexatitiis , with abundance more ; which manifestly shews that this consecrated oil was intended primarily for the cure of diseases . in the ambrosian form , the prayer is , infunde sanctificationem tuam huic oleo , ut ab his quae unxerit membra , fugatis insidiis adversariae potestatis , susceptione praesentis olei , sancti spiritus gratia salutaris debilitatem expellat & plenam conferat sospitatem , where the effect relates to the soundness of the members anointed , and not to the sins committed by them . in the gregorian sacramentary , published by menardus , there is a prayer wherein this place of st. james is mentioned ; and presently it follows , cura quaesumus redemptor noster gratia spiritus sancti languores istius infirmi , &c. and immediately before the anointing , sana domine infirmum istum , cujus ossa turbata sunt , &c. and while he was anointing , the patient was to say , sana me domine ; and where the pain was greatest , he was to be so much more anointed , ubi plus dolor imminet amplius perungatur . while the rest were anointing , one of the priests was to pray , pristinam & immelioratam recipere merearis sanitatem ; what was this but bodily health ? and yet this was per hanc sacramenti olei unctionem : after which follows a long prayer for recovery from pains and diseases . and such there are in the several offices published by menardus , in his notes ; although the general strain of them shews that they were of latter times , when the unction was supposed to expiate the sins of the several senses . cassander produces many instances to shew , that the prayers and hymns , and the form of anointing did respect bodily health . in one he finds this form , in nomine patris , & filii , & spiritus sancti accipe sanitatem . not the health of the mind , but the body . maldonat takes notice of cassander's offices , and the expressions used in them ; but he gives no answer to the main design of them . but three things he owns the church of rome to have varied from the ancient tradition in , with respect to this sacrament . . as to the form ; the council of trent owns no other but that now used , per istam unctionem , &c. but maldonat confesses it was indicative , ego te ungo , &c. or ungo te oleo sancto , &c. and he runs to that shift , that christ did not not determin any certain form ; whereas the council of trent saith , the church understood by tradition the other to have been the form. here the council of trent makes an appeal to tradition , and is deserted in it , by one of its most zealous defenders ; and gamachaeus affirms this to be an essential change ; and he thinks the sacrament not to be valid in another form. s●arez thinks the other form not sufficient . but maldonat affirms the other form was used ; and so at that time , there was no s●crament of extreme unction , because not administred in a valid or sufficient form. and yet in the gregorian office the form is indicative , inungo te de oleo sancto , &c. so in that of ratoldus , ungo te oleo sanctificato in nomine patris , &c. in the tilian codex , inungo te in nomine patris , & filii , & spiritus sancti , oleo sancto atque sacrato , &c. in the codex remigii the general forms are indicative , ungo te oleo sancto , &c. but there being a variety of forms set down , among the rest there is one , per istam unctionem dei , &c. which afterwards came to be the standing form ; and yet the council of trent confidently appeals to tradition in this matter . which shewed how very little the divines there met were skilled in the antiquities of their own church . suarez shews his skill when he saith , the tradition of the roman church is infallible in the substance of this sacrament , and that it always used a deprecative form ; but maldonat knew better , and therefore on their own grounds their tradition was more than fallible ; since the roman church hath actually changed the form of this sacrament . . maldonat observes another change , and that is as to the season of administring it . for the council of trent saith it ought to be in exitu vitae , and therefore it is called sacramentum exeuntium , the sacrament of dying persons ; but maldonat saith , it is an abuse to give it only to such ; for , in the ancient church , they did not wait till the party were near death ; but , he saith , it was given before the eucharist , and that not once , but for seven days together , as is plain , he saith , in the ancient ms. offices ; and he quotes albertus magnus for it . so that here is another great change in the roman tradition observed and owned by him . . in not giving it now to children ; for in the ancient writers he saith , there is no exception , but it was used to all that were sick ; and he quotes cusanus for saying expresly that it was anciently administred to infants . but the reason of the change was the doctrin of the schoolmen ; for with their admirable congruities they had fitted sacraments for all sorts of sins ; as bellarmin informs us ; baptism against original sin , confirmation against infirmity , penance against actual mortal sin , eucharist against malice , orders against ignorance , matrimony against concupiscence ; and what is now left for extreme unction ? bellarmin saith , they are the remainders of sin ; and so saith the council of trent . but what remainders are there in children , who have not actually sinned , and original sin is done away already ? therefore the church of rome did wisely take away extreme unction from children ; but therein maldonat confesses it is gone off from tradition . i know alegambe would have maldonat not believed to be the author of the books of the sacraments ; but the preface before his works hath cleared this beyond contradiction from the mss. taken from his mouth with the day and year compared with the copy printed under his name . but if maldonat may be believed , the church of rome hath notoriously gone off from its own tradition as to this sacrament of extreme unction . of matrimony . the last new sacrament is that of matrimony ; which having its institution in paradise , one would wonder how it came into mens heads to call it a sacrament of the new law , instituted by christ ; especially when the grace given by it supposes mankind in a fallen condition . hower the council of trent denounces an anathema against him that saith that matrimony is not truly and properly a sacrament , one of the seven of the evangelical law , instituted by christ. that which is truly and properly a sacrament must be a cause of grace , according to the general decrees about the nature of sacraments . so that those who do not hold the latter , must deny the former . now that there was no tradition even in the roman church for this , i prove from the confession of their own most learned divines since the council of trent . vasquez confesses that durandus denies that it confers grace , and consequently that it is truly a sacrament , ( but he yields it in a large improper sense ) and that the canonists were of his opinion ; and that the master of the sentences himself asserted no more than durandus . and which adds more to this , he confesses that soto durst not condemn this opinion as heretical , because thomas , bonaventure , scotus and other schoolmen did only look on their own as the more probable opinion . but , saith he , after the decree of eugenius and the council of trent it is heretical . gregory de valentia saith the same thing , only he adds that the master of the sentences contradicts himself . so certain a deliverer was he of the churches tradition ; and wonders that soto should not find it plainly enough in the councils of florence and trent , that a true sacrament must confer grace . maldonat yields , that durandus and the canonists denied matrimony to be a proper sacrament , but he calls them catholicks imprudently erring . bella●min denies it not ; but uses a disingenuous shift about durandus , and would bring it to a logical nicity , whereas 〈◊〉 very arguments he pretends to answer , sh●w pl●●●●y that he denied this to be a true and proper sacrament . but he offers something considerable about the canonists if it will hold . . that they were but a few , and for this he quotes navarr , that the common opinion was against them ; for which he mentions the rubrick de spons . but i can find nothing like it through the whole title ; and it is not at all probable that such men as hostiensis and the glosser should be ignorant of , or oppose the common opinion . hostiensis saith plainly , that grace is not conferr'd by matrimony , and never once mentions any opinion among them against it ; and the glosser upon gratian affirms it several times , caus. . q. c. honorantur , in hoc sacramento non confertur gratia spiritus sancti sicut in aliis . the roman correctors could not bear this ; and say in the margin , immo confert ; this is plain contradicting ; but how is it proved from the canon law ? they refer to dist. . c. his igitur , v. pro beneficiis . thither upon their authority i go ; and there i find the very same thing said , and in the same words ; and it is given as a reason why symony cannot be committed in matrimony as in other sacraments , and in both places we are referr'd to q. . c. connubia , and to . q. . c. quicquid invisibilis , the former is not very favourable to the grace of matrimony ; and in the latter the gloss is yet more plain , if it be possible , nota conjugium non esse de his sacramentis quae consotationem coelestis grati● tribuunt . there the correctors fairly refer us to the council of trent , which hath decreed the contrary . but that is not to our business , but whether the canonists owned this or not . and there it follows , that other sacraments do so signifie as to convey , this barely signifies . so that i think bellarmin had as good have given up the canonists , as to make so lame a defence of them . . he saith we are not to rely on the canonists for these things , but on the divines . but durand● saith , the canonists could not be ignorant of the doctrin of the roman church ; for some of them were cardinals ; and he gives a better reason , viz. that the sense of the roman church was to be seen in the decretals . for therefore marriage was owned to be a sacrament in the large sense , because of the decret . of lucius iii. extra de haeret . c. ad abolendam ; but the schoolmen argued from probabilities and niceties in this matter , which could not satisfie a man's understanding ; as appears by durandus his arguments , and bellarmin's answers to them . . where sacraments confer grace , there must be a divine institution of something above natural reason , but there is nothing of that kind in matrimony , besides the signifying the union between christ and his church ; and therefore it is only a sacrament in a large , and not in a proper sense . in answer to this bellarmin saith , that it both signifies and causes such a love between man and wife , as there is between christ and his church . but vasquez saith , that the resemblance as to christ and his church in matrimony , doth not at all prove a promise of grace made to it . and basilius pontius approves of what vasquez saith , and confesses , that it cannot be infer'd from hence that it is a true and proper sacrament . . here is nothing external added , besides the mere contract of the persons ; but the nature of a sacrament impli●s some external and visible sign . bellarmin answers , that it is not necessary there should be in this sacrament any such extrinsecal sign ; because it lies in a mere contract . and that i think holds on the other side , that a mere contract cannot be a sacrament , from their own definition of a sacrament . . the marriage of infidels was good and valid , and their baptism adds nothing to it ; but it was no sacrament before , and therefore not after . bellarmin answers , that it becomes a sacrament after . and so there is a sacrament without either matter or form ; for there is no new marriage . . marriage was instituted in the time of innocency , and is a natural dictate of reason , and therefore no sacrament . bellarmin answers , that it was no sacrament then , because there was no need of sacramental grace . and although the marriage of adam and eve did represent the union between christ and his church ; yet it was no proper sacrament . but how doth it prove that it is a sacrament upon any other account , under the gospel ? and if that doth not imply a promise of grace , then how can it now ? so that durandus his reasons appear much stronger than bellarmin's answers . but durandus urges one thing more , which bellarmin takes no notice of , viz. that this opinion of the canonists was very well known at that time , and was never condemned as contrary to any determination of the church . now , if there had been any constant tradition even of the church of rome against it , it is impossible these canonists should have avoided censure ; their opinion being so much taken notice of by the schoolmen afterwards . jacobus almain saith , it was a controversie between the canonists and divines , whether matrimony was a sacram●nt ; not all the divines neither ; for the confesses durandus and others seemed to agree with them . what universal tradition then had the council of trent to rely upon in this matter ? when all the cano●ists , according to almain , and some of the divines , opposed it ? he sets down their different reasons ; but never alledges matter of faith , or tradition against them , but only saith , the divines hold the other opinion , because matrimony is one of the seven sacraments . but on what was the opinion of the necessity of seven sacraments grounded ? what scripture , what fathers , what tradition was there , before peter lombard , for just that number ? the sense of the greek church about seven sacraments . but before i come to that , it is fit to take notice of what bellarmin lays great weight upon , both as to the number of the sacraments in general , and this in particular ; which is , the consent of both the greek and latin church for at least years . but i have shewed there was no such consent , as is boasted of even in the latin church . as to the greek church , he saith , it is an argument of universal tradition , when they had the same tradition even in their schism . to this i answer . . we do not deny that the latter greeks , after the taking constantinople by the latins , did hold seven mysteries ; which the latins render sacraments . for after there were latin patriarchs at constantinople , and abundance of latin priests in the eastern parts , they had perpetual disputes about religion ; and the latins by degrees did gain upon them in some points ; and particularly in this of seven sacraments , for the latins thought it an advantage to their church to boast of such a number of sacraments ; and the greeks that they might not seem to come behind them , were willing to embrace the same number . the first person among them who is said to have written about them , was simeon bishop of thessalonica , whom possevin sets at a greater distance , that the tradition might seem so much elder among them ; ( for he makes him to have lived years before his time ; ) but leo allatius hath evidently proved , that he lived not two hundred years before him , ( which is a considerable difference , ) for simeon dyed but six months before the taking of thessalonica , a. d. , as he proves from joh. anagnosta , who was present at the taking it . from hence it appers how very late this tradition came into the greek church . after him gabriel severus , bishop of philadelphia , wrote about the seven sacraments , and he lived at venice in arcudius his time , who wrote since possevin ; and crusius wrote to this gabriel a. d. , and he was consecrated by jeremias a. d. . so that neither his authority , or that of je●emias , can signifie any thing as to the antiquity of this tradition among the greeks . leo allatius talks of the old as well as modern greeks , who held seven sacraments , but he produces the testimony only of those who lived since the taking of constantinople ; as job the monk , simeon , johannes palaeologus , jeremias , gabriel , cyrillus berrhoensis , parthenius , and such like : but he very craftily saith , he produces these to let us see they have not gone off from the faith of their ancestors , whereas that is the thing we would have seen , viz. the testimony of the greeks before , and not afterwards . as to the ancient greeks , he confesses they say nothing of the number . de numero apud eos altum silentium est . and how could therebe a tradition in so much silence ? but some speak of some , and others of others , but all speak of all . this is a very odd way to prove a tradition of a certain number . for then , some might believe three , others four , others five , but how can this prove that all believed just seven ? however let us see the proof . but instead of that he presently starts an objection from the pretended dionysius areopagita , viz. that where he designs to treat of all the sacraments , he never mentions penance , extreme unction , and matrimony ; and after a great deal of rambling discourse , he concludes that he did ill to leave them o●t ; and that others answers are insufficient . he shews from tertullian , ambrose and cyril that the necessary sacraments are mentioned ; but where are the rest ? and we are now enquiring after them in the ancient greek church ; but they are not to be foun● . as one may confidently affirm , when one who professed so much skill in the greek church , as leo allatius , hath no more to say for the proof of it . . those greeks who held seven sacraments , did not hold them in the sense of the council o● trent . and that for two reasons . . they do not hold them all to be of divine institution . which appears by the patriarch jeremias his answer to the tubing divines , who at first seems to write agreeably to the church of rome in this matter , ( except about extreme unction ; ) but being pressed hard by them in their reply ; he holds to the divine institution of baptism , and the eucharist , but gives up the rest , as instituted by the churches authority . which is plain giving up the cause . how then comes bellarmin to insist so much on the answer of jeremias ? the reason was , that socolovius had procured from constantinople the patriarch's first answer , and translated and printed it ; upon which great triumphs were made of the patriarch's consent with the church of rome ; but when these divines were hereby provoked to publish the whole proceedings , those of the church of rome were unwilling to be undeceived ; and so take no notice of any farther answer . since the time of jeremias , the patriarch of alexandria , ( as he was afterwards , ) metrophanes critopulus published an account of the faith of the greek church ; and he saith expresly of four of the seven , that they are mystical rites , and equivocally called sacraments . and from hence it appears how little reason leo allatius had to be angry with caucus , a latinized greek , like himself , for affirming that the modern greeks did not look on these sacraments as of divine institution ; but after he hath given him some hard words , he offers to prove his assertion for him . to which end he not only quotes that passage of the patriarch jeremias , but others of job and gregorius ; from whence he infers , that five of the sacraments were of ecclesiastical institution , and he saith nothing to take it off . so admirably hath he proved the consent of the eastern and western churches ! . they do not agree in the matter , or form , or some essential part of them , with the council of trent , and therefore can make up no tradition for the doctrin of that council about the seven sacraments . this will be made appear by going through them . . of chrism . . as to the form , arcudius shews , that gabriel of philadelphia , cabasilas and marcus ephesius , all place the form in the consecration of it ; but the church of rome makes the form to lie in the words spoken in the use of it . . as to the minister of it . among the greeks it is commonly performed by the presbyter , though the bishop be present ; but the council of tr●nt denounces an anathema against him that saith , the bishop alone is not the ordinary minister of it . . as to the character . the council of trent declares that whosoever affirms that confirmation doth not imprint an indelible character , so as it cannot be repeated is anathematized ; but arcudius shews at large , that the modern greeks make no scruple of reiterating confirmation . but catumsyritus , another latinized greek , opposes arcudius herein ; and saith , that the use of chrism among the geeeks , doth not relate to the sacrament of confirmation , but was a symbolical ceremony relating to baptism ; and for this he quotes one corydaleus a man of great note in the patriarchal church at constantinople . therefore caucus had reason to deny that the greeks receive that which the latins call the sacrament of confirmation . and if this hold , then the tradition of the seven sacraments must fail in the greek church . for they deny that they have any such thing as a sacrament of confirmation distinct from baptism . . of the sacrament of penance . . the council of trent declares absolution of the penitent to be a judicial act , and denounces an anathema against him that denies it ; but the greek church uses a deprecative form , ( as they call it , ) not pronouncing absolution by way of sentence , but by way of prayer to god. which as aquinas observes , rather shews a person to be absolved by god than by the priest , and are rather a prayer that it may be done , than a signification that it is done ; and therefore he looks on such forms as insufficient . and if it be a judicial sentence , as the council of trent determines , it can hardly be reconciled to such a form , wherein no kind of judicial sentence was ever pronounced ; as arcudius grants ; and in extreme unction , where such a form is allowed , there is , as he observes , no judicial act. but he hopes at last to bring the greeks off by a phrase used in some of their forms , i have you absolved ; but he confesses it is not in their publick offices ; and their priests for the most part use it not . which shews it to be an innovation among the latinizing greeks , if it be so observed , which catumsyritus denies , and saith , he proves it only from some forms granted by patents , which are not sacramental ; and supposing it otherwise , he saith , it is foolish , false and erroneous to suppose such a form to be valid ; because it is no judicial act. . the council of trent makes confession of all mortal sins , how secret soever , to be necessary in order to the benefit of priestly absolution in this sacrament , and denounces an anathema against those that deny it ; but the greek church grants absolution upon supposition that they have not confessed all mortal sins : as appears by the form of the patriarch of antioch , produced by arcudius , and another form of the patriarch of constantinople , in jeremias his answer . arcudius is hard put to it , when to excuse this he saith , they only pray to god to forgive them ; for this is to own that a deprecative form is insufficient , and so that there is no sacrament of penance in the greek church . . of orders . the greek and latin churches differ , both as to matter and form. the council of trent anathematiseth those who deny a visible and exeternal priesthood in the new testament ; or a power of consecrating and offering the true body and bloud of christ , and of remitting and retaining of sins . and this two-fold power the church of rome expresses by a double form , one of delivering the vessels with accipe potestatem , &c. the other of imposition of hands , with accipe spiritum sanctum . but the greek church wholly omits the former , on which the greatest weight is laid in the latin church , and many think the essential form lies in it . when the office of ordination is over , the book of the liturgy , called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is delivered to the presbyter , but without any words ; and there is no mention of it in their rituals , either printed or mss. so likewise a parcel of consecrated bread is delivered by the bishop to him afterwards . and all the form is , the divine grace advances such an one to the office of a presbyter . if we compare this with the form in the council of florence , we shall find no agreement either as to matter or form , in this sacrament , between the greek and latin churches . for there the matter is said to be that by which the order is conferred , viz. the delivery of the chalice with wine , and the paten with the bread ; and the form , receive the power of offering sacrifice for the living and the dead . and it is hardly possible to suppose these two churches should go upon the same tradition . i know what pains arcudius hath taken to reconcile them ; but as long as the decree of eugenius stands , and is received in the church of rome , it is impossible . and catumsyritus labours hard to prove , that he hath endeavoured thereby to overthrow the whole order of priesthood in the roman church . . of extreme unction . bellarmin particularly appeals to the greek church for its consent as to this sacrament ; but if he means in the modern sense as it is deliver'd by the councils of florence and trent , he is extremely mistaken . . for the former saith , it is not to be given but to such of whose death they are afraid ; and the council of trent calls it the sacrament of dying persons . but the greeks administer their sacrament of unction to persons in health as well as sickness , and once a year to all the people that will ; which arcudius saith , is not only done by the illiterate priests , but by their patriarchs and metropolitans , &c. and they look on then as a supplement to the ancient penance of the church ; for they think the partaking of the holy oil makes amends for that : but this arcudius condemns as an abuse and innovation among them . but the original intention and design of it was for the cure and recovery of sick persons ; as arcudius confesses the whole scope of the office shews ; and in the next chapter he produces the prayers to that end . and the greeks charge the latins with innovation in giving this sacrament to those persons of whose recovery they have no hope . . the council of trent requires that the oil of extreme unction be consecrated by a bishop ; and this the doctors of the roman church , saith catumsyritus , make essential to the sacrament . but in the greek church the presbyters commonly do it , as arcudius shews at large . . of matrimony . the council of trent from making this a sacrament , denounces an anathema against those who do not hold the bond indissoluble , even in the case of adultery . and bellarmin urges this as his first reason , because it is a sign of the conjunction of christ with his church . but the greek church held the contrary ; and continues so to do , as both bellarmin and arcudius confess . so that though there be allow'd a consent in the number of sacraments among the modern greeks , yet they have not an entire consent with the roman church in any one of them . the sense of other eastern churches about the seven sacraments . but to shew how late this tradition of seven sacraments came into the greek church , and how far it is from being an universal tradition , i shall now make it appear that this number of sacraments was never received in the other christian churches , although some of them were originally descended from the ancient greek church . i begin with the most eastern churches , called the christians of st. thomas in the east-indies . and we have a clear proof that there was no tradition among them about the seven sacraments . for when alexius meneses , archbishop of goa , undertook to reform them according to the roman church , ( if that may be called a reformation ) and held a council at diamper to that purpose , a. d. . he found that they had no sacrament of chrism , or penance , or extreme unction , of which they were utterly ignorant , saith jarricus from antonius goveanus , who was prior of goa , and published the whole proceedings . which book was translated out of portugese by joh. baptista a glano into french , and printed at brussels , . from whence the author of the critical history of the faith and customs of the eastern nations hath given an account of these things ; and he saith , they owned but three sacraments , baptism , eucharist and orders ; that they knew nothing of the sacrament of chrism or extreme unction , and abhorred auricular confession . but in excuse of them he saith , that they joyned confirmation with baptism , as other eastern churches did ; that the sacrament of extreme unction as it is practised in the church of rome is known only to the latin church ; but the eastern church had the unction of s. james for the cure of diseases , as the greek church had . cotovicus affirms the same of the other eastern churches called chaldean , ( who are under the same patriarch with the christians of s. thomas ) that they knew nothing of the sacraments of confirmation and extreme unction . this patriarch is the same which is commonly called the patriarch of babylon ; whose residence is at mozal ; but called of babylon , because sele●cia , after the desolation of the true babylon had the name given to it ( as it were ●asie to prove , if it were pertinent to this design ) and upon the destruction of sele●cia the patriarch removed first to bagdat and then to mozal ; whose jurisciction extends over all those eastern christians , which are called nestorian . in the abyssine churches , godignus saith positively from those who had been conversant among them , that they knew nothing of the sacraments of chrism and extreme unction ; and that all the confession they have is g●neral and rare ; and that they have no bishops under the abuna , and believe the bond of matrimony easily dissolved . so that the tradition of seven sacraments is wholly unknown to them , but as it was imposed by the roman m●ssionaries ; which imposition was so ill received there and brought such confusion and disorders among them , that they are for ever banished . in the armenian churches , joh. chernacensis a latinized armenian saith , that the armenians owned not the seven sacraments , that they knew nothing of chrism and extre●● unction . here we see a general consent as to the total ignorance of two of the seven sacraments in these churches . but clemens galanus , who had been many years a missionary among the armenians endeavours to prove that they had the tradition of the seven sacraments ; but very unsuccessfully . for he produces none of their ancient authors for it : but he names vartanus whom he sets himself to confute afterwards ; and he confesses , that he took away the sacrament of penance , and made burial of the dead to be one of his seven . but more than that , he saith , the armenian churches have forbidden extreme unction as the nestorians had done auricular confession . so that nothing like a truly catholick tradition can be produced for the number of seven sacraments either in the church of rome or elsewhere , within bellarmin's own term of years . i am now to give an account when this number of seven sacraments , came into the church , and on what occasions it was advanced to be a point of faith. the first i can find who expresly set down the number of seven sacraments , was hugo de s. victore , who lived in the twelfth century , not long before peter lombard . but that there was an innovation made by him in this matter , i shall make appear by comparing what he saith with what others had delivered who were short of the primitive fathers . rupertus tuitiensis lived much about the same time in germany that hugo did at paris , and he gives a different resolution of the question about the principal sacraments : for he names no more than baptism , the eucharist and the double gift of the holy ghost ; and , saith he , these three sacraments are necessary instruments of our salvation . but hugo saith , there are seven principal sacraments ; ( which sufficiently shews , that he thought there were other sacraments besides these ; and so he expresses his mind in another place , where he makes all symbolical signs to be sacraments , ) but the principal sacram●nts he saith , are those which convey grace . fulbertus carnotensis lived in france in the beginning of the tenth century ; and where he discourses of the sacraments he names no more than baptism and the eucharist . he calls the body and blood two sacraments , and so did rabanus maurus before him . who lived in the ninth age , and was a person of great reputation ; and he names no more sacraments than baptism , and chrism , and the eucharist ; where he proposes to treat of them ; and had as just an occasion to have mention'd the rest , as hugo had . but bellarmin saith , he handled all wherein the clergy were concerned , and therefore omitted none but matrimony . but were not they concerned to know whether it were a sacrament or not ? the question is not whether he mention'd the things , but whether he called them sacraments ; but i do not find extreme unction so much as mention'd by him in the place he refers us to . in the same ●ge , walafridus strabo , where he purposely discourseth of the sacraments names no more than rabanus maurus ; and this had been an inexcusable omission in such who treat of ecclesiastical offices ; and were to inform persons of their duties about them . and therefore i lay much more weight on such an omission in them than in any other writers . i know paschasius radbertus mentions no more than three sacraments , baptism , chrism and the eucharist ; but bellarmin and sirmondus say he mention'd them for example sake , because it was not his business to handle the number of sacraments ; but this answer will by no means serve for those who purposely treated of these matters ; and therefore an omission in them is an argument that they knew nothing of them . and this argument will go yet higher ; for in the beginning of the seventh century , isidore of sevil treated of these matters , and he names no more than baptism , chrism and the eucharist ; and he tells us , they are therefore called sacraments , because under the covering of corporeal things a secret and invisible virtue is convey'd to the pa●takers of them . and this very passage is entred into the canon law c. . q. c. multi secularium , &c. and there it passes under the name of gregory i. but the roman correctors restore it to isidore . but it may be objected , that ivo carnotensis made a collection of canons before gratian ; who handles the sacraments in his first and second part ; and he seems to make the annual chrism to be a sacrament ; for which he quotes an epistle of fabianus , who saith it ought to be consecrated every year , quia novum sacramentum est ; and this , he saith , he had by tradition from the apostles . which testimony the modern schoolmen rely upon for a sufficient proof of this apostolical tradition . but this epistle is a notorious counterfeit , and rejected by all men of any tolerable ingenuity in the church of rome . thus we trace the original of some pretended apostolical traditions into that mass of forgeries , the decretal epistles , which was sent abroad under the name of isidore . ivo produces another testimony from innocentius i. to prove that extreme unction was then owned for a kind of sacrament , and therefore ought not to be given to penitents . if this rule holds , then either matrimony was no sacrament , or penitents might not marry ; but the canonists say even excommunicated persons may marry , but one of them saith , it is a strange sacrament excommunicated persons are allow'd to partake of . but this genus est sacramenti signifies very little to those who know how largely the word sacrament was used in elder times , from iertullian downwards . but our question is not about a kind of a sacrament , but strict and proper sacraments ; and if it had been then thought so , he would not have permitted any to administer it ; unless they will say it is as necessary to salvation as baptism , which none do . it appears from hence , that there was then a custome among some in regard to s. james his words , if persons were sick , to take some of the chrism to anoint them , and to pray over them in hopes of their recovery ; but this was no sacrament of dying persons , as it is now in the church of rome . if it had been then so esteemed , s. ambrose ( or who-ever was the author of the book of sacraments ) would not have omitted it , and the other supernumeraries , when he purposely treats of sacraments ; the same holds as to s. cyril of jerusalem . and it is a poor evasion to say , that they spake only to catechumens ; for they were to be instructed in the means and instruments of salvation as they make all sacraments to be . and it is to as little purpose to say , that they do not declare there are but tw● ; for our business is to enquire for a catholick tradition for s●ven true and proper sacraments , , as the council of trent determines under an anathema . but if we compare the traditions for two and for seven together , the other will be found to have far greater advantage ; not only because the two are mention'd in the eldest writers , where the seven are not ; but because so many of the fathers agree in the tradition , that the sacraments were designed by the water and blood which came out of our saviour's side . so s. chrysostom , s. cyril of alexandria , leo magnus , but above all s. augustin who several times insists upon this ; which shews that they thought those two to be the true and proper sacraments of christianity ; however there might be other mystical rites which in a large sense might be called sacraments . as to the occasions of setting up this number of seven sacraments , they were these . . some pretty congruities which they had found out for them . the number seven they observe was in request in the levitical law , as to sacrifices and purifications . naaman was bid to wash seven times . and bellarmin in good earnest concludes that the whole scripture seemed to foretell the seven sacraments by those things . but besides , he tells us of the seven things relating to natural life which these have an analogy with ; the seven sorts of sins these are a remedy against , and the seven sorts of vertues which answer to the seven sacraments . but none of all these prove any catholick tradition . . making no difference between mystical rites continued in imitation of apostolical practices , and true and real sacraments . imposition of hands for confirmation and ordination is allowed to be a very just and reasonable imitation of them ; and as long as the miraculous power of healing diseases continued , there was a fair ground for continuing the practice mentioned by s. james ; but there was no reason afterwards to change this into quite another thing , by making it a sacrament , chiefly intended for doing away the remainders of sin. . advancing the honour of the priesthood ; by making them so necessary for the actual expiation of all sorts of sins , and in all conditions . for no sacrament is rightly administred by the council of trent without the priest ; and therefore clandestine marriages are declared void by it . and it pronounces an anathema against those who say any others than priests can administer extreme unction ; however it appears that in the time of innocentius . any might make use of the chrism when it was consecrated by a bishop ; but they are grown wiser in the church of rome since that time ; and as they have altered a ceremony of curing into a sacrament of dying , so they have taken care that none but priests shall perform that last office , that the people may believe they can neither live nor dye without them . vi. of auricular confession . the council of trent declares , that the universal church always understood that christ did institute an entire confession of sins ; and that it is received by divine right to all who sin after baptism , because our lord jesus christ before his ascension into heaven , did leave priests as his vicars , to be presidents and judges , to whom all mortal sins were to be made known , and of which they were by the power of the keys to give sentence , so as either to remit or retain them . it farther saith , that the most holy and ancient fathers by a great and unanimous consent did use this secret sacramental confession from the beginning . and it denounces anathema's , . against him that denies the sacrament of penance to be of christ's institution . . against him that denies that our saviour's words , receive ye the holy ghost , whose sins ye remit they are remitted , &c. are to be understood of the power of remitting and retaining in the sacrament of penance , as the calick church always understood them . . against him that denies confession to be a part of it , or to have divine institution , and to be necessary to salvation ; as it relates to all mortal though secret sins . thus we see the sense of the council of trent in this matter ; and i shall now make it evident there was no such catholick tradition , as is here pretended for it , by the confession of their own writers . . as to the general sense of the church . . as to the founding it on john . those sins ye remit , &c. . as to the general sense of the church . maldonat reckons up seven several opinions among themselves about confession . . of those who denied it to be of divine right , but held it to be useful in the church ; and for this he quotes rhenanus and erasmus . . of those who make it to be onely of ecclesiastical institution ; and this , saith he , is the opinion of all the canonists . . of those who thought it came in by apostolical tradition ; of which he reckons theodore archbishop of canterbury , . of some divines who held it to be instituted only by st. james . . of others who held it to be of divine right , and not instituted by the apostles , but insinuated by christ ; and for this he quotes alexander hales , and bonaventure . . of some who thought it instituted in the old testament . , of those who held it instituted by christ , but not as a precept , but by way of council ; and for this he mentions scotus and his followers . vasquez reckons up among those whose opinions are not condemned , the canonists , erasmus , bonaventure , alexander hales , and scotus , who all differed from the council of trent . suarez mentions three opinions among them . of those who said it was instituted in the law of nature . . of those who attributed it to the law of moses . of those who d●nyed any institution of it by way of precept from christ in the law of grace ; and for this he quotes hugo de sancto victore , alexandèr hales , and bonaventure , and they went upon this ground , that no such institution could be proved either by scripture or tradition . gregory de valentia confesses , some catholick authors denied the divine institution of confession ; for which he produces the canonists , and erasmus and rhenanus . but he thinks they were not guilty of heresie , because they were not obstinate ; but that is not our business , which is to shew , that by their own confession there was not a constant catholick tradition in the church about it . natalis alexander , who hath lately pretended to answer daillè , confesses , that from the ninth to the thirteenth age , many catholicks did hold , that confession to god alone was sufficient to obtain remission of sins ; and he proves it from lombard , gratian and the canonists . but he saith it was no heresie in them , the point not being yet settled by a general council . boileau in his answer to daillè cannot deny that in the time of lombard and gratian men held several ways about this matter ; but he answers with thomas upon the sentences ; that it was an opinion then , but since the council of lateran it is become a heresie . but if it were no heretical opinion then , what becomes of infallible tradition ? if the church defines by tradition , that tradition must be proved before the definition , otherwise it hath no ground to proceed upon . the council of lateran under innocent iii. ( it seems ) made it a heresie to deny this sacramental confession . within much less than a century before it , lived peter lombard and gratian. peter lombard made it his business to collect a body of divinity out of the sentences of the fathers ; and his work hath been universally esteemed in the roman church . when he comes to state this point of confession out of the fathers , i. e. to give an account of the tradition of the church about it ; he tells us in the beginning , that learned men were of different opinions ; and for what reason ? because the doctors of the church seemed to deliver not only divers but contrary things , i. e. they had no certain and constant tradition about them . and when he comes to the point of confession to god only , he quotes for it , besides scripture , s. ambrose , and s. chrysostem , and prosper , and against it s. augustine and leo , and concludes himself for the latter ; but saith not a word more to shew that the constant tradition of the church had been for this opinion . gratian puts the same question , and for confession to god alone he quotes s. ambrose , s. augustine , and prosper , besides scripture , and argues largely for it after c. convertimini , &c. then he sets down the arguments on the other side from c. . and after c. . he sums up the force of them , and again after c. . and when he hath said all on one side and on the other , he concludes after c. . that he left all to the readers judgment ; for both opinions had wise and pious defenders ; and produces that saying as out of theodore's penitential ; that some think that we ought to confess only to god , as the greeks others that we ought to do it to the priest too , as almost all the church besides ; but then he adds , that confession to god purges away sin , but that to the priest shews how they are purged , i. e. by contrition . so the gloss interprets it . bellarmin thinks that , ut groeci , was foisted into the canon , and i shall not dispute against it , provided that which answers to it , ut tota ferè sancta ecclesta , be allowed to be so too , as the roman correctors do confess . boileau hath taken another course , for he saith , this whole distinction is without ground attributed to gratian ; but how doth he prove it ? from ant. augustinus his dialogue , where a ms. is cited that this was not gratian's , but an elder author 's . and what is gotten by this ? but the other answers , it must be gratian 's , because of the citation out of the digests , and other books of civil law then lately found . if this will not do , he saith , gratian hath many errours , as the roman correctors observe . yes truly do they ; and about this point several times ; for the councils of lateran and trent have otherwise determined . but what is all this to the tradition of the church in gratian's time ? innocent iii. in the council of lateran , enjoyns strictly the practice of confession once a year , under the penalty of excommunication , and of being deprived of christian burial ; but there is not a word of the churches tradition before , for the ground of it . but finding several opinions about it , and the waldenses then opposing it , he resolves by his authority to bind all persons to it . but after this the canonists allowed no more than ecclesiastical institution for it ; as is plain by the gloss on the canon law , dist. . de poenit. tit. in poenitentia ; but the roman correctours quote against it council . trident. sess. . c. . i. e. a council some years after , must tell what the tradition then was ; but the gloss saith , the greeks had no such tradition , and therefore were not bound to confession . so that we have no evidence for any catholick tradition in this matter , before the lateran council . . but the council of trent hath gone beyond the council of lateran , and hath fixed the divine right of confession on john . whose sins ye remit , &c. and therefore i am now to shew , by the confession of their own writers , that this hath not been the traditionary sense of this place . cajetan , not long before the council first sate , in his notes on this place confesses , that no precept of sacramental confession is contained in it . but how should it be of divine right in the sense of the council of trent , if there be no command for it ? tes , by cons quence , if they will obtain remission of sins ; but this can by no means be inferred from hence , because the remission of sins by baptism is implied in it ; but none of them plead for particular confession before baptism , in order to remission ; and therefore not after , unless some command of christ made it more necessary after baptism than before , vasquez saith , that cajetan means no more , than that it cannot be proved out of this place ; but catharinus saith , that neither there nor in any other place doth cajetan allow , that auricular confession can be proved out of scripture . gabriel biel confesses , he cannot find sufficient force to conclude the necessity of confession from the power of absolution here granted ; because it may be valid upon voluntary confession of the party ; and therefore he resolves it into an unwritten tradition . guide brianson takes great pains to prove it out of this place , but at last yields , that christ's instituting such a power , doth not bind persons to confess their faults to them that have it . for the power of retaining doth not imply that no sins are retained which are not retained by the priest upon confession ; neither then doth the power of absolution imply that no sins are remitted but such as are confessed to a priest. and therefore he betakes himself as biel doth , to unwritten tradition ; and so doth nicol. de orbellis . jac. de almain debates the matter at large ; and he says only that it is a probable opinion , that this confession is of divine appointment ; but he yields , that christ's granting a power of absolution , d●th not make it a duty to confess to a priest ; and he saith , it is a false proposition , that where a power of judging is given , others are bound to submit to it ; for all that follows is , that their sentence is valid if they do submit . but the force of what the council of trent deduces from this place , lies wholly in this , as vasquez observes , that because christ hath given authority to absolve , and they cannot exercise that authority without confession , therefore confession is hereby made necessary . and he confesses , that scarce any have deduced the argumert effectually from this place . but he saith one thing very observable , that if this place be extended to remission of sins in baptism , then it can never prove the necessity of sacramental confession . and greg. de valentia as plainly owns , that the fathers did understand it of baptism ; he names s. cyprian , and s. ambrose ; but natalis alexander allows s. cyril of alexandria to have so understood it ; and that jansenius and ferus followed him ; but besides these s. augustin interprets this place as s. cyprian had done . for as s. cyprian from hence infers the power of baptizing and granting remission of sins in the guides of the church ; so s. augustin saith , the churches charity by the h●ly ghost looses the sins of those who are her members , and retains the sins of those who are not . and it may be observed , that whereas st. matthew speaks of the power of baptizing granted to the apostles ; s. john instead of that mentions this p●wer of remitting or retaining sins , and s. mark and s. luke speak of baptism ; to which the one joins s●lvation ; and the other remission of sins . and the●efore this seems to be meant by our saviour in the words of s. john ; and thus s. peter exercised this power of loosing on the converted jews , act. . . and his power of binding on simon magus , act. . . peter lombard carries s. augustin's meaning farther , to the power of priests over the sins of the members of the church ; but then he limits this power , and makes it no more than declarative ; as i have observed already ; and for this he quotes a notable passage of s. jerom , who saith , that men are apt to assume too much to themselves under pretence of this power of the keys , whereas god regards not the sentence of the priests but the life of the penitents . but natalis alexander thinks there is no binding power with respect to baptism ; was there not as to simon magus ? and as long as every year the church judged of the competency of persons for it ? when christ spake these words the church was wholly to be formed , and it was a great power lodged with the apostles and their successors to admit into the church , or to exclude from it , not as private persons , but by authority from christ himself . but then this power is vain and idle in a constituted church . by no means ; they have still a power of casting out and taking in again ; and of imposing such acts on offenders , as may give satisfaction to the church , whose honour suffers , and whose discipline is broken . but the question is , whether by christ's appointment under the gospel no known mortal sin can be pardon'd to baptized persons without confession of it to a priest ? and whether these words of our saviour do imply it ? scotus is by no means satisfied with mens reasoning out of this place , that because christ hath given such a power , therefore it is mens duty to confess their sins ; for , saith he , this only implies the usefulness and efficacy of this power if it be made use of ; as in confirmation , none think themselves damned if they do not use it though it be very useful ; and therefore he goes another way to work , viz. by joyning this precept and that of loving god and our selves together with it . but how doth this prove that a man ought to take this particular way ? truly , scotus here shews his sub●ilty . suppose there be another way that is harder , and this be found more easie , he thinks a man is bound to take the shortest and easiest way , viz. by confession and absolution . but for all this his heart did misgive him , and he could not but see , that this proved nothing , unless this way of confession were first proved to be a secure way . and therefore he puts the case , that if it be not proved by these words , it may be by s. james , confess your faults one to ano●her . no , saith he , this will not do ; for which he gives this reason , that it holds no more for confession to a priest than to any other ; therefore , after all , he is willing to resolve it into some unwritten tradition , since there was no convincing evidence for it either in this or any other place of scripture . which shew'd they ran to tradition , when they had nothing else to say . bonaventure denies that christ himself app●inted t●e confession of sins ; for which he gives this reason , lest it should prove an occasion of sinning ; ne ex verbis domini daretur aliquibus recidivandi occasio ; but afterwards he thinks the apostles appointed it , and s. james published it ; which scotus utterly denies . but to the place of s john , bonaventure saith it was not enough to have it implied in the priest's power , because it being a harder duty than absolution , it requir'd a more particular command . which was but reasonably said ; especially when bellarmin after others , urges , that it is one of the most grievous and burthensome precepts ; but his inference from it is very mean , that therefore it must have a divine command to inforce it on the people ; but bonaventure's argument is much stronger , that it ought then to have been clearly expressed . but as to the peoples yielding to it , other accounts are to be given of that afterwards . alexander hales observes , that if christ had intended a command of confession , john . it would have been expressed to those who are to confess , and not to those who are to absolve ; as he did to those who were to be baptized , john . except a man be born of water , &c. so christ would have said , except a man confess his sins , &c. and he gave the same reasons why christ did not himself institute it , which bonaventure doth , who used his very words . and now who could have imagined that the council of trent would have attempted to have made men believe that-it was the sense of the universal church that christ instituted confession in john ? when so many great divines even of the church of rome so expresly denied it ; as i have made appear from themselves . but now to give an account by what steps and degrees and on what occasions this auricular confession came into the church , these things are to be considered . . in the first ages , pu●lick , scandalous offenders after baptism , were by the discipline of the church brought to publick penance ; which was called exomologesis ; which originally signifies confession . and by this , bellarmin saith the ancients u●derstood either confession alone , or joyned with the other parts of penance ; but albaspineus shews , that it was either taken for the whole course of publick penance , or for the last and solemn act of it , when the bishop led the penitents from the entrance of the church up to the b●dy of the congregation , where they expressed their abhorrence of their faults in the most penitent manner , by their actions as well as by words . so that this was a real and publick declaration of their sorrow for their sins , and not a verbal or auricular confession of them . the same is owned by la cerda . but boileau pretends that it had not this sense till after the novatian heresie and the death of irenaeus ; and that before that time it signified confession according to the sense of the word in scripture . this seems very strange , when baronius himself confesses , that tertullian us●s it for that part of penance which is called satisfaction ; and bellarmin grants it is so used both by tertullian and irenoeus ; when he saith the woman seduced by marcus , afterwards spent her days in exmologesi . what! in continual confession of her sin ? no , but in penitential acts for it ; and so petavius understands it , both in irenoeus and tertullian , and he saith , it did not consist onely or principally in words but in actions , i. e. it was nothing of kin to auricular confession , which is a part of penance distinct from satisfaction . and to make these the same , were to confound the different parts of the sacrament of penance , as the ●ouncil of trent doth distinguish them . but besides this , there were several other circumstances . which do make an apparent difference between these penitential acts and the modern notion of confession . . the reason of them was different . for , as rigaltius observes , the penitential rigour was taken up after great numbers were admitted into the church ; and a great dishonour was brought upon christianity by the looseness or inconstancy of those who professed it . there were such in s. paul's time in the churches of corinth , and elsewhere ; but although he gives rules about such , yet he mentions no other than avoiding or excommunicating the guilty persons , and upon due sorrow and repentance receiving them in again ; but he imposes no necessity of publick or private confession in order to remission ; much less of every kind of mortal sin , though it be but the breach of the tenth commandment , as the council of trent doth ; yet this had been necessary in case he had thought , as that declares , that god will not forgive upon other terms . and so much the rather , because the evangelists had said nothing of it ; and now churches began to fill , it was absolutely necessary for him to have declared it , if it were a necessary condition of pardon for sins after baptism . but although the apostles had given no rules about it , yet the christian churches suffering so extremely by the reproaches cast upon them , they resolved , as far as it was possible , to take care to prevent any scandalous offences among them . to this end , the actions of all persons who professed themselves christians were narrowly watched ; and their faults , especially such as were scandalous , complained of ; and then if they confessed them , or they were convicted of them , a severe and rigorous discipline was to be undergone by them before they were restored to communion ; that their enemies might see how far the christians were from incouraging such enormities as they were accused of . they were charged with thyestean suppers and promiscuous mixtures ; whereas , any persons among them who were guilty of homicide or adultery were discharged their society , and for a great while not admitted upon any terms ; and afterwards , upon very rigorous and severe terms . and besides these , to preserve the purity of their religion in times of persecution , they allowed no compliance with the gentile idolatry ; and any tendency to this , was looked upon as a degree of apostasie , and censured accordingly . and about these three sorts of sins the severity of the primitive discipline was chiefly exercised ; which shews , that it proceeded upon quite different grounds from those of the council of trent about auricular confession . . the method of proceeding was very different ; for here was no toties quoties allow'd ; that men may sin , and confess , and be absolved ; and then sin the same sin again , and confess again , and receive absolution in the same manner . the primitive church knew nothing of this way of dealing with sinners upon confession . if they were admitted once to it that was all . so pamelius himself grants , and produces several testimonies of fathers for it ; and so doth albaspineus and petavius . dare any say this is the sense of the church of rome about confession , that a man cannot be received a second time to confess and be absolved from the same sin ? how then can they pretend any similitude between their confession and the ancient exomologesis ? besides , none ever received absolution from the ancient church till full satisfaction performed . but in the church of rome , absolution is given before satisfaction ; and although some have complained of this , as a great abuse ; yet they have been sharply answer'd , that it is to call in question the conduct of the church for five hundred years ; and they may as well question many other things , which depend upon the authority of the present church . . the obligation to confession is very different from what it was in the ancient exomologesis . now by the doctrine of the church of rome , a person looks on himself as bound in conscience to confess every mortal sin ; but in the ancient church none can imagine that persons were bound to undergo the exomologesis for every mortal sin , there being no penitential canons which did ever require it ; but they had respect to some particular sins , and the penance was proportion'd to them . we ought to take notice of two things with respect to the discipline of the ancient church , which will shew the different notion it had of these things from what is now current in the church of rome . . that it did not exclude those from all hopes of salvation whom it excluded from penance ; as may be seen in the illiberitan council , where many are wholly shut out from the church , whom we cannot think they thought uncapable of salvation . from whence it follows , that they did not look on confession and absolution as a necessary condition of salvation ; but now in the church of rome they allow confession to all , because they think they cannot otherwise be in a state of salvation in an ordinary way . but in the ancient church they could not look on the desire of confession as necessary , for to what purpose should they make that necessary when they denyed the thing ? but in the church of rome , they make the desire necessary , because they hold the thing it self to be so , if there be means to have it . . that the penitential canons never extended in the primitive church to all those sins which the church of rome now accounts mortal , and therefore necessary to be confessed . the council of trent saith expresly , they must confess omnia & singula peccata mortalia — etiam occulta — and an anathema is denounced against him that denies it to be necessary to remission of them . now if we consider their notion of mortal sins , we shall easily discern the vast difference between the obligation to confession by the council of trent , and by the old penitential canons . for mortal sins are not only all voluntary acts committed against the known laws of god , but against the laws of the church ; and even venial sins may become mortal by the disposition of the person , and by other circumstances , which the casuists set down at large ; now the council of trent doth expresly oblige men , not only to relate the acts themselves , but all circumstances which change the kind of sin. and this is a racking the consciences of men far beyond whatever we find in the old penitential canons ; for , petavius confesses that many sins now accounted mortal , had no penance appointed for them by the old canons ; and therefore i need not take any pains to prove it : if any one hath a mind to be satisfied , he may see it in gregory nyssen's canonical epistle , where he owns that several of those sins , for which the scripture excludes from the kingdom of heaven , have no canonical penance prescribed them by the ancient canons of the church . which shews a mighty difference from the rule of the council of trent . the most plausible place in antiquity brought for all mortal sin , is that of s. cyprian , where he saith , that some confessed their very thoughts , though they had not proceeded to actual sin . it is true , that he doth speak of some such ; but was it for sins of thought against the tenth command ? no ; but it is very plain , that he speaks of that sin which was thought to imply a renouncing christianity , and s cyprian elsewhere calls summum delictum , and the sin ag●inst the holy ghost ; viz. consenting to any act of gentile idolatry ; and yet saint cyprian had much ado to perswade those who were actually guilty to submit to due penance for it ; but they obtained tickets from the confessors , and were admitted to communion without undergoing the discipline of the church , the consequence whereof would be , that the discipline would be lost , and the church over-run with apostates ; this makes s. cyprian plead hard against such practices , and among other arguments he uses this of the great tenderness of some , who because they had entertained such thoughts of doing as others did , for their own safety , they offered to unburthen their consciences before them , and desired remedy for small wounds ; how much more ought they to confess their faults whose wounds are greater ? this is the whole force of his reasoning ; where the thought and act relate to the same sin ; and that said to be no less than denying christ , and sinning against the holy ghost . but there is no parity in the case of other sins ; which even s. cyprian calls minora delicta , being against men immediately ; and there is no intimation in him that ever the thoughts of those sins were discovered , or that persons were under any obligation by the rules of the church to do it . . private offenders were sometimes advised in those first ages for the ease of their consciences to make confession of their sins ; of which we see an instance as to the practice in one case in s. cyprian's time . and tertullian compares such persons who avoid it , to those who have such secret ulcers that they chuse rather to perish than to discover them . now in cases of this nature he advises to confession and publick penitential acts , that so they may in the judgment of the church have the secret wounds of their consciences healed . and this is that which origen doth advise to in such cases , to seek out a wise spiritual physician , and to make known his inward distemper to him , and to follow his advice and direction , as to the method of cure. now this we never oppose ; but the only question is , whether it be necessary for all persons , and for every mortal sin , to make confession of it to the priest , that it may be forgiven ; and origen never once supposes this ; for he mentions several other ways for the remission of sins after baptism , by martyrdom , by alms , by forgiving and converting others , by great love to god , and in the last place he brings in this of a laborious penance and confession . either the former ways are sufficient without this , or not ; if they are , then this is not necessary to the remission of all mortal sins ; if not , to what purpose doth he mention so many ways , when this one is sufficient without them and all those are insufficient without this ? for boileau confesses , that no mortal sins according to them can be remitted , where there is not at least the desire of this . but origen shews the different ways of obtaining remission , or else he doth not answer the difficulty ; which was that the jews had several sorts of sacrifices for the expiation of sins , to which we have none answerable under the gospel , yes , saith origen , baptism answers to one sort , martyrdom to another , alms to a third , &c. and last of all , penance to the offering baked in the frying pan. from whence it is plain , that he looked on this as one particular way proper to some cases , and not as a general method for the remission of all mortal sins . but he urges that origen quctes scripture for the confession of sins , as necessary , hom. . in psal. . but what scripture ? even the words of the psalmist , i will confess my iniquity . and was confession to a priest necessary under the law ? how then can those words prove it necessary under the gospel ? although therefore origen might think it very convenient in some cases for penitents to unload their consciences by confession to a spiritual physician , yet we find no proof of any necessity of it , as to all mortal sins . it is confessed , that publick faults , either confessed or proved , had publick penance appointed for them by the penitential canons ; but boileau , after arnauld , pleads , that even secret sins being mortal , were not thought remissible by the keys of the church , without publick penance . but this can never be proved to have been the doctrine of the ancient church , and it is unreasonable to suppose ; for then , all persons must have undergone publick penance who had any mortal sin , and it must have been frequently born by the same persons , both which are inconsistent with the ancient discipline . but they saw there was no other way to maintain the necessity of confession , but by this . for they could find none but publick penance , and that by the penitential canons was prescribed only for some particular scandalous sins ; and therefore they fansied , that persons who committed other faults , were bound to confess them privately , and to undergo publick penance for them . i do not deny , but some great penitents , for secret faults , would of their own accord submit to the publick discipline ; but this was a voluntary act in them , that by this means they might assure themselves the more of the sincerity of their own repentance ; and it being looked on as an act of humility and piety , it made it go down the better with voluntary penitents . . for the sake of such voluntary penitents in great churches , whose cases required particular and private examination and direction , there was a penitentiary appointed , whose office it was to receive their confessions , and to direct and order the method of their penance . of this we have a famous instance in the church of constantinople , in the time of nectarius , about which so much pains hath been taken for different purposes . that which seems most probable to me , is , that the penitentiary was appointed to examine and judge of such penitential causes which were brought before him , ( not being notorious , ) and to give sentence according to the canons ; but especially of voluntary confessions of persons , whose consciences were oppressed with the guilt of secret sins ; and to those he was to appoint penance without revealing their faults . where the facts were notorious and scandalous , i suppose the ancient discipline of the church ( part whereof is to be seen in the canonical epistles ) to have still continued at constantinople , as well as in other churches . but there were many private miscarriages , wherein great prudence and judgment was required , both to determine the penance , and to manage it so , that it did not break out into an open scandal . and for cases of this nature the penitentiary was appointed ; to whom all persons might resort in private cases , and open their consciences to him , and take his directions how to perform their penitential acts. so it was with that person of quality at constantinople , who gave occasion to the abolishing the office of penitentiary , both there , and in all the eastern churches . she first went to the penitentiary , as a voluntary penitent , and confessed her faults to him , and took his directions ; and while she was performing her penance in the church , the fact was committed with the deacon , which she afterwards confessed to the penitentiary . who being enraged at the deacon , in probability through his desire to have him punished , the fact came to be discovered , and the people to be highly offended : and it is not reasonable to suppose that the penitentiary put her upon a publick confession of her secret fault ; but that it came out by his means ; and therefore nectarius thought fit no longer to put such a trust into any man's hand , which through his discovery might redound to the dishonour of the church , as that did . what the effect was of abolishing this office , is the great question , whether the taking away publick or private confession . if the historians may be believed , it was the necessity of making any confession at all in secret ; for the right of receiving such confessions , was devolved upon the penitentiary ; therefore when his office was put down , where the case was not notorious , every one must be left to his own conscience ; and that both socrates and sozomen affirm was the consequence of it . if only publick confession was taken away , as some imagine , a secret confession was still continued , how was it possible for the historians to mistake the matter so grosly , by making that the consequence of it ? for , is every man left to his own conscience , where he is bound to go to confession before he partakes of the eucharist ? and why should publick penance be taken away on this occasion , where there seems to have been none ; for that person underwent to publick penance upon her former confession , for then her penance would not have been done in the church , but out of it , among the penitents . but as the former was voluntary , so was the latter too ; for here was no accuser but her self ; and for what reason should publick and solemn penance for notorious cri●●es , be taken away for the sake of the discovery of a secret confession ? whether the punishment of the deacon were the occasion of its coming out , or whatever it was , it seems evident to me , that she was not obliged to any publick consession ; because sozomen saith , the penitentiary was chosen for his gravity , silence and wisdom ; but what silence was there , if the confessions were to be made publick . and on the other side , it is impossible to conceive , that if all persons were then obliged to confess all mortal sins after baptism , that one penitentiary should be sufficient in so vast a city as that of constantinople was . therefore i think it most probable , that the case of notorious and scandalous offenders stood as it did , and so continued in s. chrysostom's time ; but this office of penitentiary relating to voluntary and secret offenders was taken away ; because a greater scandal came to the church by the discovery , when such a publick disgrace made the fact become notorious . and so this act of nectarius in taking away the penitentiary's office , and the approbation of it by other churches following the example , evidently proves , that they did not look on confession of s●●cret sins , as necessary to the remission of them . . as the taking away the penitentiary's office shewed the sense of the church at that time against the necessity of confession in order to pardon , so it did likewise in order to the partaking of the eucharist . for socrates saith , that eudaemon gave that counsel to nectarius , that he should remove the penitentiary , and give every one leave to pass j●dgment on himself in his own conscience , and so to partake of the mysteries . the same is affirmed by sozomen . which respects not the publick discipline about notorious offenders , but the private applications made by scrupulous persons and secret offenders to the penitentiary in order to a right preparation for the eucharist . and it is very probable , that it was then believed by many , that they could not be duly fitted for that sacrament , unless they had first unburthened their consciences by a voluntary confession to the penitentiary , and followed his directions . but this office being taken away , the question now is , whether it were thought necessary to confess privately to any other ? the council of trent declares , that sacramental confession is necessary to a worthy partaking of the eucharist , to every one that is conscious to himself of any mortal sin ; and whosoever holds the contrary is declared excommunicate ipso facto . but these historians plainly deny it , and they are justified by s. chrysostom , who speaks to the very case ; not about c●techumens , but such as would fit themselves for the holy eucharist . and he several times declares , that a man needs not reveal his sins to any but to god alone , in order to it . nothing can be more emphatical than what he saith to that purpose . for this cause s. paul saith , let a man examin himself , and so let him eat of that bread , and drink of that cup ; he doth not lay open the secret ulcer ; he doth not bring the accusation into a theatre ; he appoints no witnesses of thy transgressions ; pass judgment within thine own conscience , there examin thy faults , and call thy self to an account for the ●ins of thy life , where ●o●e but god is present , who sees all things ; amend thy faults , and so with a pure conscience draw near to the holy table , and partake of the sacrifice there offered . but left this should be thought one of those sudden eloquent heats which petavius saith , are hardly capable of good sense , if too strictly examined ; we find him very cooly delivering the same doctrine in his exposition of those words of s. paul. than which nothing can be more inconsistent with the doctrine and practice of the church of rome , which makes confession of our sins to a priest a necessary preparation for the eucharist . catharinus saith , that if the church had not limited the time , yet every person would be bound to confess to a priest , as often as he communicated . and although he knew no mortal sin by himself , yet he would deserve the severest censure for not confessing , because he took upon himself to be his own judge . can any thing be more contrary to s. c●rysostom than this ? boileau confesses , that s. chrysostom doth not here refer at all to confession to a priest ; then it follows , that he thought it not necessary to right participation of the holy eucharist . here he speaks not of daily examination of conscience by the faithful ; but of the solemn judgment of conscience by way of due preparation ; and so justifies the fact of nectarius in taking away the penitentiaries office . but we are not to suppose so great and so zealous a man would have done it against his conscience , as he must , if he still thought confession to a priest necessary ; and he doth not say , they need not go now to the penitentiary , but that they need not diselose their sins to any . not to a multitude , or in a theatrical manner , as some expound it ; but to none but god , which excludes the knowledge of a sin●le priest , as well as of a great number . i n●ed not insist on the other places in s. chrysostom to that purpose , since these are sufficient for my design . cassian was a disciple of s. chrysostom , and he supposes confession to god alone to be sufficient for remission of sin , where mere modesty hinders men from consessing to men . boileau answers , that he doth not speak of sacramental confession made to priests ; but of an ascetick confession among the m●nks . but he speaks of a confession to god as sufficient for remission of sins , and therefore must exclude the necessity of any other . . after the taking away the penitentiary's office , the publick discipline of the church , as to open and scandalous offenders continued for some time in the eastern as well as the western churches . no one speaks more fully to this than s. chrysostom ; which makes me wonder at those who say the publick penance was taken away by nectarius , for in his . homily on s. matthew , towards the conclusion he insists very much upon it ; and not only charges the people not to come with their sins upon them ; but he speaks to those who ministred , to deny the eucharist to open offenders . and he saith , it would be charged as a great fault upon them , if they knew such and permitted them to communicate . but how shall we knew them ? i speak not , saith he , of those who are not , but of those who are known ; and if any such did thrust themselves in , he bid them not be afraid to deny them ; and if they durst not , he tells them , they should bring them to him , and he would rather lose his life than give that sacrament to such unworthy receivers . but still he saith he speaks of open and notorious offen●ers . which shews plainly , that even s. chrysostom never thought the publick discipline was changed ; since he declares so much resolution to maintain it . and this could not be spoken by him while he was a presbyter at antioch , but after he came to the see of constantinople . there was no doubt some alteration as to the penitents , after the taking away the penitentiary ; but it was no more than his office was concerned in . the old penitential canons remained still in force and were executed , as occasion served ; as appears by the canons in trullo so long after s. chrysostom's time which refer to them . if all the publick discipline had been laid aside so long before , to what purpose do those bishops speak of them , as if they were still in force ? see canon , , , , . in the last canon indeed they leave it to those who had the power of binding and loosing to temper the severity of the canons as they should judge convenient ; but doth it hence follow , that the ancient discipline as to publick offenders was destroy'd ? s. chrysostom himself several times mentions those who were in the state of penitents and the prayer that was made for them ; to what purpose , in case the whole order of penitents was taken away ? he likewise speaks of the charge for the penitents to go out . what a mockery , were this , if there were no publick discipline then left ? and lest it should be said , that these things were said by him at antioch , before the fact of nectarius , i have shew'd already that the latter homilies on s. matthew were made by him at constantinople ; and in his liturgy there used the dismission of the penitents was continued . . while the publick discipline was kept in the several churches none were injoyned to undergo it , but open and publick offenders . the evidence being so clear in antiquity for the publick penance of those who were bound to give the church satisfaction before they receiv'd absolution from it ; there was a necessity found by some learned men of the roman communion to set up a new hypothesis , viz. that by the ancient rules of the church all persons conscious to themselves of secret si●s were bound to undergo publick penance for the remission of their sins . the occasion of the debate was this . some in the church of rome held no more necessary in case of mortal sin to prepare men for communion than confession to a priest and absolution ; others saw the fatal consequence of this , and therefore insisted on the necessity of penance ; both parties made their appeal to the ancient church ; and both were mistaken . for , on the one side , there was no such doctrine then held that confession and absolution did sufficiently prepare persons for the eucharist ; and on the other , there was no good evidence that any were enjoyned publick penance for secret faults . but in the case of such sins , the confession was left to god in secret ; and a true and hearty contrition for them was thought the best as well as most necessary preparation for the eucharist . monsr . arnauld saw well enough that without his hypothesis , it was impossible to prove the necessity of confession in the ancient church ; for he yields that the church did not use the power of the keys but in publick . on the the other hand , petavius urges , that on the same ground that they would reduce , as they pretended , the ancient discipline they must make many other alterations in the church , and so justifie the reformers . but monsr . arnauld was defective in his proofs , as petavius at large shews ; not when he proves that the penance was publick ; but that all persons under mortal sins were bound to undergo it . for petavius makes it appear , that all such as are accounted mortal si●s in the modern sense , were not then thought necessary to be expiated by publick penance ; but only such as were notorious and scandalous , and he at large answers all monsr . arnauld's arguments . notwithstanding which morinus took up monsr . arnauld's opinion , and without any colour charges it on theodore archbishop of ca●terbury , that ●e first in his penitential appointed publick penance to be onely for publick offences . but the learned editor of the abstract of theodore's penitential , hath fully vindicated him in this matter . but after these , boileau resumes the opinion of monsr . arnauld , and lays it for the foundation of his history of auricular confession . but he grants , that all the solemn and ceremonial penance imposed by the penitential canons did not extend to all kind of mortal sins , but chiefly to idolatry , adultery and homicide ; but this he insists upon , that some part of this publick penance , viz. exclusion from the communion was inflicted on persons guilty of secret mortal sins . but this will by no means do his business ; for he is to prove that no secret mortal sin could be forgiven without confession to a priest ; and that all persons were required by the ancient church in case they were conscious to themselves of any such sins , to make them known , and to undergo publick penance for them , before they could obtain remission of them . we do not deny that persons under trouble of conscience for secret sins , were from time to time advised to resort to their guides , to make known their cases to them , and to take their directions ; we do not deny that such persons might be required by such guides to withdraw themselves from joyning in the most solemn acts of publick communion till they had manifested the sincerity of their repentance , by fastin● , and prayers , and other penitential acts ; we do not deny , that some of these persons might either by advice or of their own accord joyn themselves with the publick penitents , as is well known in the case of fabiola at rome so much magnified by s. jerom ; but this is the thing we desire to see proved , that no sin whatsoever of a mortal nature ( as it is defined in the church of rome ) was then thought capable of remission by the penitential acts of the party , ( especially by true contrition ) without confession to a priest and absolution from him . and this is the true state of the case ; and i can find nothing produced by him to this purpose which deserves to be considered . . as the publick discipline declined , persons were exhorted to make private confession of their sins ; if they could not be brought to publick penance . thence in the greek church came the penitentials of johannes jejunator ( who first took upon himself the title of oecumenical patriarch in the time of mauritius to the great offence of the bishops of rome ) and of some others after him . morinus grants that there was a great alteration in the greek church about this matter ; he thinks it began with the business of the penitentiary , but after the publick discipline was disused , instead of that , he saith , came up a secret confession and penance ; which was left to the honesty , and piety of the penitent , and not required by any canonical authority among them ; and so he saith it continued from the time of nectarius to this day , as to the people . so that we have a plain confession from him , that there is no rule in the greek church requiring this secret confession of sins in order to the forgiveness of them . but it is observable concerning the modern greeks , that if persons do make confession among them , they think themselves obliged to keep to the old penitential canons , and blame joh. jejunator for receding from them ; for simeon of thessalonica saith , they had them from the fathers , and the fathers by tradition down from the apostles . but although they are therein mistaken , yet they shew how different their tradition is from that of the roman church , which thinks it self under no such obligation , but allows absolution to be granted upon confession , and a right of communion without penance performed , for which there is no colour , as to any ancient tradition either of the eastern or western church . in the western church we find the publick discipline fallen to decay in the beginning of the ninth age , and charles the great summoning several councils for putting things into as good an order as they would then bear . in the second council of cavaillon , a. d. . we find a complaint , can. . that the old canonical penance was generally disused ; and neither the ancient order of excommunicating or absolving was observed . which is a plain and ingenuous acknowledgment that they had gone off from the ancient tradition of the church ; and therefore they pray the emperor's assistance , that the publick discipline might be restored for publick offenders , and the ancient canons be brought into use again . from whence it follows , that at that time notorious offenders escaped with private confession and penance ; and even that was done by halves , can . . and some thought it not necessary to do it at all , can . . and upon this occasion , they do not declare it necessary for the remission of sins to confess even the most secret mortal sins to a priest ; but very fairly say , that both are useful ; for confession to god purgeth the sin ; and to the priest , teaches men how their sins may be purged . for god who is the author and giver of health , giveth it often by the inv●sible operation of his power , and often by the means of physicians . boileau yields , that there were some then in the roman church , who denied confession to men to be necessary , but he saith , they were adversaries and rebels . this had been a good answer , if the council had called them so ; which it doth not , but on the contrary declares , that god doth often forgive sin immediately without the priests interposition , or else the latter clause signifies nothing . and the most it saith before , is , that confession to a priest is useful in the church ; which is not the the thing disputed by us , but the necessity of it ; and his critical observations of utrumque signifie just nothing , unless he had proved that the council had before said that both were necessary , which it doth not . he doth not deny , that the opinion of the sufficiency of confession to god alone did continue in the church to the time of the council of lateran , and that it gave occasion to the canon , which enforced the necessity of confession to a priest ; but he adds , that learned and pious men may have false opinions before the judgment of the church . so that at last we find universal tradition is given up , and the necessity of auricular confession is resolved into the authority of the roman churches definition , or rather , the pope's declaration of it , either with or without the consent of the lateran council . but he saith , the fathers did not speak so exactly of the trinity before the council of nice ; nor the greek fathers of grace and predestination before s. augustin . if this be true , it is impossible to prove either of those great points merely by tradition ; for those fathers either delivered the sense of the church , or they did not ; if they delivered the sense of the church , then either the sense of the church was doubtful , or they did not understand it ; if the sense of the church were doubtful , then it is plain those doctrines could not be proved by tradition ; if the sense of the church were not doubtful , but the fathers did not understand it , then how is it possible that the churches tradition should be an infallible guide , when even the fathers of the church were mistaken about it ? but i have sufficiently proved , that not only before , but even after the council of lateran there was no universal tradition for the necessity of auricular confession . finis . a catalogue of some books printed for henry mortlock , at the phoenix in s. paul 's church-yard . a bational account of the grounds of protestant religion , being a vindication of the lord archbishop of canterbury's relation of a conference , &c. from the pretended answer by t. c. wherein the true grounds of faith are cleared , and the false discovered ; the church of england vindicated from the impu●ation of scism ; and the most important particular controversie bêtween us and those of the church of rome throughly examined : by edward stillingfleet , d. d. and dean of s. paul's , folio . the second edition . origines britiannicae : or the antiquity of the british churches ; with a preface concerning some pretended antiquities relating to britain , in vindication of the bishop of s. asaph . by edward stillingfleet d. d. dean of s. paul's , folio . the rule of faith : or an answer to the treatise of mr. j. s. entituled , sure footing , &c. by john tillorson d. d. to which is adjoyned , a reply to mr. j. s.'s third appendix . &c. by edward stillingfleet . d. d. a letter to mr. g. giving a true account of a late conference at the d. of p's . a second letter to mr. g. in answer to two letters lately published concerning the conference at the d. of p's . veteres vindicati : in an expostulary letter to mr. sclater of putney , upon his consensus veterum , &c. wherein the absurdity of his method , and the weakness of his reasons are shewn ; his false aspersions upon the church of england are wiped off , and her faith concerning the euch●rist proved to be that of the primi●ive church : together with animadversions on dean boileau's french translation of , and remarks upon bertram . an answer to the compiler of nubes testium : wherein is shewn , that antiquity ( in relation to the points in controversie set down by him ) did not for the first five hundred years believe , teach and practice as the church of rome doth at present believe , teach and practice ; together with a vindication of veteres vindicati from the late weak and disingenuous attempts of the author of transubstantiation defended by the author of the answer to mr. sclater of putney . a letter to father lewis sabran jesuit , in answer to his letter to a peer of the church of england ; wherein the postscript to the answer to the nubes testium , is vindicated , and father sabran's mistakes farther discovered . a second letter to father lewis sabran jesuit , in answer to his reply . a vindication of the principles of the author of the answer to the compiler of nubes testium in answer to a late pretended letter from a dissenter to the divines of the church of england . scripture and tradition compared , in a sermon preached at guild-hall-chapel nov. . . by edward stillingfleet d. d. dean of s. paul's , the second edition . a discourse concerning the nature and grounds of the certainty of faith , in answer to j. s. his catholick letters . by edward stillingfleet , d. d. dean of st. paul's . an historical examination of the authority of general councils , shewing the false dealing that hath been used in the publishing of them , and the difference amongst the papists themselves about their number . the second edition with corrections and alterations . an appendix , in answer to some late passages of j. w. of the society of jesus , concerning the prohibition of scripture in vulgar languages by the council of trent . since the publication of the foregoing book , i have met with a reflexion upon it made by j. w. in the preface to a treatise lately reprinted by him . wherein , he observes that a great part of the objections made against them are either grounded on mistakes , or touch points of discipline not of faith , which alone they are bound to defend . this last clause i could not but wonder at , since the new title of his book is , a defence of the doctrine and holy rites of the roman catholick church , &c. why should i w. take such needless pains to defend the rites of the church , if they are bound to defend nothing but points of faith ? i had thought the honour and authority of the church had been concerned in its commands and prohibitions , as well as in its definitions and decrees . and although it be not pretended , that the church is infallible in matters of discipline ; yet it is a strong prejudice against any pretence to infallibility in a church , if it be found to err notoriously in any thing of general concernment to the catholick church . but how comes my late book to be made an example ? as for instance , ( saith he ) i find in a book newly published , with this title , the council of trent examin'd and disprov'd by catholick tradition , that for pages together dr. st. labours to prove that there is no catholick tradition against translating scripture into vulgar languages . whereas i expresly say , that the prohibition of reading the scripture so translated without a particular license , was that which i undertook to shew could not be justified by any catholick tradition ; and that there was a general consent of the catholick church , not merely for the translations of scripture into vulgar languages , but for the free use of them by the people . which i made out by these particulars , . that where-ever the christian religion prevailed , the scripture was translated into the vulgar language for the peoples benefit . which i proved from the ancient italick versions before st. jerom's time , the gothick , persian , armenian , syriack , coptick and aethiopick translations ; without the least prohibition of the common use of them . . that where a language grew into disuse among the people there the scripture was translated into the tongue which was better understood . and for this i instanced in the arabick versions after the prevalency of the saracens in the eastern and southern parts , and after the moors coming into spain . . that even after the primitive times , christian princes and bishops did take care that the people should read the scriptures in their own language . for princes , i instanced in ludovicus pius and alfred ; for bishops , in waldo bishop of fressing , methodius and cyrill , &c. . that the pope himself in the th century did approve of it ; and for a reason common to all times and churches , viz. that all people and languages were to praise god , and that god himself had so commanded . . that gregory vii . was the first person who forbad the use of scripture and divine offices in the vulgar tongue , and was not ashamed to own that the church saw cause to alter several things from what they were in the primitive church . . that upon the setting up the inquisition by innocent iii. this prohibition took place in france and spain , and other places . . that some noted divines of the church of rome have highly commended it ; and said that the taking of it away would be pernicious and destructive to faith and devotion . . that the prohibition in the church of rome is built on the authority of the council of trent , which appointed the index to be made , in which the fourth rule forbids all persons the use of the scripture in the vulgar tongue without a particular license , and whosoever presumes to doe it is to be denied absolution . . from hence it follows , that the council of trent is evidently disproved , as to catholick tradition , for any foundation of such a prohibition . and what now saith j. w. against all this ? he would gladly know against whom i dispute . against j. s. and all such who would make the world believe the council of trent did proceed upon catholick tradition . to prove i am mistaken , he tells me in his th chap. i may find an account of several new translations of scripture into vulgar tongues , made by catholicks and approved in the roman church . then he mentions an english translation made by the rhemish and doway colleges ; and in french by the doctours of lovain ; and some others . what now follows from hence ? is it any mistake in me to say , there was such a prohibition of reading the scripture in the church of rome , and inforced by the rule made by appointment of the council of trent ? this had been indeed to the purpose if it could have been proved . i do not deny , that there have been such translations made , where it was found impossible to hinder all translations ; and the use of them have been connived at or allow'd to some particular persons , whom they were otherwise secure of . but such translations are like the galenists allowing some chymical medicines to their patients ; they declare against their use as dangerous ; but if the patient will have them , then pray take them of my apothecary , who is a very honest man and prepares mischievous medicines better than another . this is just the case of the church of rome , as to translations of scripture ; if we ask their opinion in general , whether translations be allowable or not , their answer hath been formerly very free and open , by no means ; for they are very dangerous and mischievous things . and here besides those i have already mentioned , i could produce many more to the same purpose . but alas ! these men lived before the age of mis-representing and expounding . now all is mistake on our side , and infallibility on theirs . we cannot for our hearts understand their doctrines or practices aright , although we take never so much pains and care to doe it . one would think by the present way of dealing with us , that the church of rome were like the new name on the white stone , which no man knows but he that hath it ; and so it were impossible for any else to understand it , but such as are in it . i thought my self pretty secure from mistaking , when i pitched on the council of trent for my guide . but it seems , i am mistaken here too : how so ? did not the council of trent appoint the congregation of the index at first , sess. ? did it not own that the matters of it were prepared before its dissolution ? and if there were a prohibition of the free use of the scripture in vulgar languages by the rules of the index , is not the council of trent justly chargeable with that prohibition ? especially when the title in the roman edition is regulae indicis sacrosanctoe synodi tridentinoe jussu editoe . jacob. ledesma was one of the same society with j. w. and he frankly owns the prohibition of reading the scripture , made by the rule of the index , to have been done by the authority of the council of trent . the faculty at paris in the articles sent to gregory xiii . against the translation of rene benoit ; several times own the rules of the index as done by the council of trent . quacunque authoritate transferantur in vulgarem linguam biblia & edantur , vetat idem sacrosanctum concilium ea passim sine discrimine permitti . the same ledesma goes farther , and vouches the authority of the council of trent in this matter , from the decree sess. . c. . where it forbids all the parts of the mass to be in the vulgar tongue . which could not be reasonable , if the scripture were allowed to be translated . alphonsus à castro , thinks the case so alike , that a prohibition of one amounts to a prohibition of the other too , because the greater part of the office is taken out of the scriptures , and if the scripture may be translated , he saith , it must follow that divine offices ought to be in the vulgar tongue . but to return to the index . the congregation of the index was ( as is said ) established by the council in the . session as the council it self owns in the last session ; and withall , that the rules of it were then formed , but because of the multiplicity and variety of the books , the matter of the index was referred to the pope , and to be published by his authority , as likewise the catechism , missal and breviary . so that the rules of the index have the same authority in the church of rome with the roman catechism , missal and breviary . pius iv. in his bull , when he first set forth the index a. d. . owns that it was finished by the fathers appointed by the council of trent , but it was remitted to him by the council , that it might be approved by him and published by his authority . and he strictly commands the rules of it to be observed under pain of mortal sin ; and excommunication , ipso jure . after him clement viii . in his a instructions about the rules of the index owns them to be made by the fathers of the council of trent , and the same pope is so far from renewing the power of granting licenses to read the scripture in the vulgar languages , that he declares against them . for by the th rule of the index , the ordinary and inquisitor by the advice of the parish priest or consessor might permit persons to read the bible in the vulgar language , so the translation were made by catholick authours ; and it was apprehended by some , that the new printing the rule might be giving new authority to bishops and inquisitors to grant licenses , therefore the pope declares against it ; and saith it was contrary to the command and use of the roman church and inquisition , which ought to be inviolably observed . in pursuance of this we find in the roman index of prohibited books , these words , bidlia vulgari quocunque idiomate conscripta ; i. e. all bibles in vulgar languages are prohibited . therefore i cannot understand how the giving license to persons since the declaration of clemens viii . is consistent with the duty which persons of that communion owe to the authority of the roman see , unless they can produce a revocation of the bull of clemens viii . and some latter explications of the fourth rule which take away the force of his . but instead of that , alexander vii . who published the index again , after clement viii . owns that the first index was made by authority of the council of trent : and it is observable that in his bull a. d. . he not onely prefixes the rules of the index , but the observations and instruction of clement viii . and confirms all by his apostolical authority ; and injoyns the punctual observation of the orders contained therein inviolably ; under the same pains which were expressed in the bull of pius iv. therefore as far as i can understand , the faculty of granting licenses to reade the translations of the bible is taken away as far as the pope's authority can doe it . to what purpose then are we told of some modern translations , as long as the use of them is forbidden by the pope's authority ? and no ordinaries can have authority to grant licenses against the popes solemn declaration to the contrary ; nor can any of that communion with good conscience make use of them . but i am told there are translations approved in the roman church . by whom have they been approved ? by the pope , or the congregation of the index ? i do not sind any such approbation given to any of them . but on the contrary even in france , such translations have been vehemently opposed by the bishops and divines there , as being repugnant to the sense of the roman church . and this is apparent by a book published by order of the gallican clergy , a. d. . where-in it is said that it was the common and unanimous sense and practice of all orthodox persons , that neither the scriptures nor divine offices ought to be put into vulgar languages , it being injurious to the christian church , and giving occasion of offence to the weak and unlearned . how then can we imagine that such translations should not onely be allowed but approved among them ? and besides the entire treatises there collected against them , of card. hosius , lizetius , spiritus roterus , ledesma , &c. and the fragments and testimonies of several others ; we have a particular account of the proceedings of the sorbon as to this matter . in the censure of erasmus , dec. . . the sorbon declared vulgar translations of scripture to be dangerous and pernicious . the like declaration had been made before a. d. . and that all translations of the bible , or of the parts thereof ought rather to be suppressed than tolerated . a. d. . the faculty again declared , that it did not approve any translations of scripture into the vulgar language . but j. w. instances p. . in some translations that have been approved ; as a french translation by the doctours of lovain . but in the french collection before mention'd , i find , that a. d. . dec. . a debate arose in the faculty at lovain about it ; and the faculty declared that it by no means approved of it . another is of rene benoit ; which was so far from being approved , that it was first condemned by the faculty at paris , and then sent to rome to be condemned by the pope ; which was effectually done ; and gregory xiii . directed his bull to the faculty of divinity in paris , nov. . a. d. . wherein he doth expresly forbid this translation , and reject it with an anathema . and yet this very translation of rene benoit is one of those made by catholicks and approved in the roman church ; which j. w. refers me to . one of us two must needs be under a great mistake , but to whom it belongs i leave the reader to determin . the sense of the gallican clergy in this matter doth fully appear by the representation which they sent to alexander vii . about the translation of the missal into french. which was done by voisin a doctour of the faculty , and was published at paris by the permission of cardinal de retz archbishop there , and had the approbation of some doctours of the sorbon . the rest of the bishops and clergy highly resented this matter , and assembled together to consult about it , nov. . . where they proposed two things to be considered . . the matter of right , whether such a translation were to be permitted or not . . the matter of fact , whether this were a good translation or not . the debate was adjourned to dec. . and from thence to the th on which they came to a resolution to suppress it . and a circular letter was sent to all the bishops to forbid the use of it under pain of excommunication ; and the king desired to interpose his authority in it . dec. . they agreed to send an account of the whole matter to the pope in the name of the gallican clergy ; wherein they declare their great dislike of it , as contrary to the custom of the church , and as pernicious to the souls of men. and in the body of it , they say that they look on the translations of scripture into vulgar languages as the great occasion of the northern heresies ; and quote vincentius lerinensis , saying that the scripture is the book of hereticks . and after add , that they bad sent to the pope their condemnation of all translations of scripture and divine offices into the vulgar languages . this was subscribed by the general assembly of the clergy , jan. . . the pope sent a brief in answer , which was received feb. . wherein he very tragically complains that some sons of perdition in france had to the ruine of souls , and in contempt of the churches laws and practice , arrived to that degree of madness as to translate the roman missal into french. and he charges the doing of it not onely with novelty , but disobedience , sedition , schism , &c. and declares that he abhorred and detested it ; and for ever damned , reprobated and forbad it , under pain of excommunication ; and requires all persons to deliver up their books to the several ordinaries that they might be burnt . i now desire j. w. to inform me whether we are bound to believe that in france translations of scripture into the vulgar language are allowed and approved ? i am really so unwilling to mistake , that i take the best care i can to be rightly informed . i have no design either to deceive others , or to be deceived my self ; and therefore have not trusted to second-hand evidence ; but searched and considered the authours themselves , whose testimonies i rely upon . i am certain i have fallen into no wilfull mistake , but have truly and impartially stated things according to the clearest evidence i could find ; and therefore i think it some what hard to be told , that our objections are grounded on mistakes , and especially as to this matter about the prohibition of reading scripture in the vulgar language ; for i hope i have made it appear not onely that there is such a prohibition but that it is founded on the authority of the council of trent . and if it be so , then it serves my main design , viz. to prove that it went off from catholick tradition , for if there were so many translations of old without the least prohibition , and there be since the council of trent , so severe a one , backed with the pope's authority , here must be a very great change in tradition . for that is accounted pernicious and mischievous to the souls of men , which before was accounted usefull and beneficial to them . if the physicians in one age should condemn the common reading of hippocrates and gale● as destructive to the health of mens bodies , which those of former ages extremely commended , would not any one say , there was a great change in the opinions of physicians , and that they did by no means hold to the judgment of those before them ? if the common lawyers ●hould now say littleton's tenures is a book very unfit to be read by young lawyers , that it fills their heads with seditious and dangerous principles , and therefore ought to be taken out of their hands ; would not any one say , here is a wonderfull change , for no such thing was ever apprehended before , but the book was thought very usefull and proper to instruct students in some fundamental points of the law ? when manna was rained from heaven in the wilderness for . years , and for . of them every man gathered his own share and proportion , and ate of it as he saw cause ; would it not have been thought a strange alteration among them , if after . years a sett of physicians should have risen up and told the people it was true , manna was angels food , but if they had not great care in the taking it , and used it promiscuously , it would turn them to devils ; or at least it would fill them with such distempers , as they would never be able to reach to canaan ? this might be pretended to be great care and tenderness of them , in these new physicians ; but on the other side , they would tell them , they had done very well with their eating manna for . years together ; and there had been no such distempers among them , but such as humane nature is always subject to ; that such an alteration might be of worse consequence than their common use of manna ; for so it was at first appointed and so it had continued , and they could not tell but their new physicians might be worse to them than their old distempers ; and they could never believe that could be so hurtfull which god himself had appointed for their food . the former discourse makes the application needless . but after all , it is said : this is but a point of discipline and not of faith ; and in such the church may change her measures . to that i answer , . it is more than a point of discipline , for it is changing the rule of faith with respect to the people . while the scriptures were in the hands of the people , they resolved their faith into the word of god , as it was delivered to them and understood by them . but when that is taken out of their hands and they are bid to trust to the churches testimony for matters of faith ; they have a different resolution of their faith and a different ground and reason of believing . for they cannot ground their faith upon a written rule who are uncapable of understanding it . . it is no matter of discipline to overthrow the design of publishing the scripture for the universal benefit of the church of god. and this the jansenists have well proved in defence of their translation of the new testament against the prohibitions of it . for , say they , the prohibition of reading the scripture under pain of excommunication , is it self contrary to the gospel and ought not to be obey'd . for bread and nourishment is not more necessary to preserve the life of the body , than the word of god is to uphold the life of the soul. that for men to speak of so much danger in reading the scripture is to reflect very dishonourably on the providence and groodness of god ; for it was by means of trans●ations in vulgar languages that god's word came to be kno● to the world , and the gospel was at first published in those tongues , which were most generally understood . and therefore those do manifestly oppose the design and method of providence for advancing the gospel , who decry translations of scripture , as pernicious to the souls of men. and farther , that such a prohibition , is a contempt of our lord jesus christ and a design to suppress the gospel ; and a contradiction to the will and command of god ; a contempt of the scripture , which was intended to be understood by all , a contempt both of councils and fathers , which looked on the scripture as the best judge of controversies , and who advised all believers to a continual reading of the word of god. if after all this , the council of trent could so notoriously err not onely against scripture and reason , but tradition too in such a matter of concernment to the souls of men , as this is , it will be hardly possible to persuade men , it could not as well err in any point of faith. and it renders the whole proceeding suspicious as to particular points , when the rule of faith is so industriously kept out of the hands of the people . for those who follow their instructions , are never ashamed to produce their credentials . as to what j. w. saith in his book concerning jupiter , &c. i had answered it so fully many years since , that i have reason to expect a reply to what i had there said in my own vindication , before i can think it fit to trouble the world with needless repetitions . and it were hard for me to be put to answer again to the same things , when a person will not take the pains to see whether he were not answer'd already . the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e third letter p. . catechism rom. part . reply to the defence of the expo●●tion , &c. p. . sess. . can. . q. . a. . regist. f. . registr . arundel p. . f. . maignan philosophia sa●ra . part . append. . notes for div a -e necnon traditiones ipsas tum ad ●idem tum ad mores pertinentes , tanquam vel ore tenns â christo vel à spiritu sancto dictatas & continuâ successione in ecclesia catholica conservatas , pari pietatis affectu ac re●erentià suscipit & veneratur . hist. concil . trident. l. . c. . n. . n. . aug. l. . c. julian . et caetera nostrae saluti necessaria , quae omnia sola docet sacra scriptura . lection . in canon . missae . haec autem in sacris scripturis discuntur , per quas solas plenam intelligere possumus dei voluntatem . ib. e●●e quo tendit utilitas divinae scripturae ad perfectionem hominis dei ( hoc est qui totum seipsum deo dat ) perfectionem inquam ta●em ut sit perfectus ad omne bonum exercendum . in . ad tim. . . dico i●●a omnia scripta esse ab apostolis quae sunt ●mnibus necessaria , & quae ipsi palam omnibus vulgò praedicaverunt . bellarm. de verbo dei. l. . c. . illud imprimis statuendum erit propheticos & apostolicos libros juxta mentem ecclesiae catholicae verum esse verbum dei & certam ac stabilem regulam fidei . id. l. . c. . at sacris scripturis quae propheticis & apostolicis literis continentur , nihil est notius , nihil certius . id. c. . quare cum sacra scriptura regula credendi certissima tutissimáque sit . ibid. l. . c. . * et quantum ad ea quae pro●onantur omnibus credenda quae per●inent ad fiaem . . . q. . prol . † . q. . a. . ‖ melch. can. l. . c. . marsil . in . lib. sentent . l. . prooem . q. . art . . pet. de alli●co in sent. l. . q. . a. . greg. arimin . q. . a. . durand . prol. q. . n. . a. . n. . l. . dist. . q. . nam in concernentibus fidem etiam dictum unius privati esset pra●erendum dicto papae si ille movere●ur melioribus rationibus novi & veteris testamenti quam papae . cùm ergo in omni veritate veritas divina sit certior & immutabilior , ergo omnes aliae debent regulari per illam , & in quantum conformantur illi sunt verae ; in quantum autem deviant ab illa , deviant à natura veritatis . sacra autem scriptura veritas divina est , ideo judicium nostrum debemus regulare per illam applicando ad eam , &c. tostatin ep. hieron . c. . p. . d. non quod in auctoritate aequantur , absit ; sed sequantur . non quidem in subsidium auctoritatis canonicae sed in admonitionem posterorum , l. . art. . c. . c. . c. . joh. gerson . exam. doctr. p. . part. . cons. . cons. . nihil audendum dicere de divinis nisi quae nobis à sacra scriptura tradita sunt . cujus ratio est , quoniam scriptura nobis tradita est tanquam regula sufficiens & infallibi●i● , pro regi●●ine totius ecclesiastici corporis & membrorum usque in finem seculi . est igitur talis ars , talis regula , vel exemplar , cui se non conformans alia doctrina , vel abjicienda est ut haereticalis , aut suspecta , aut impertinens ad religionem prorsus est habenda . exam. doctr. part. . consid. . lyra , praesat . ad lib. tobiae . scot. in sentent . prolog . q. . n. . ea enim quae ex sola dei voluntate supra omne debitum creatur● , nobis innotescere non possunt , nisi quatenus in sacra scriptura traduntur , per quam divina voluntas nobis innotescit . . q. . a. . in c. suarez , in . p. . authoritatibus autem canonicae scripturae utitur propriè ex necessitate argumentando ; autoritatibus autem aliorum doctorum ecclesiae quasi arguendo ex propriis sed probabilitér . inni●itur enim fides nostra revelationi apostolis & prophet is factae , qui canonicos libros scripserunt , non autem revelationi si qua fuit aliis doctoribus facta . . q. . a. . ad . quae igitur fidei sunt non sunt tentanda probari nisi per autoritates his qui autoritates suscipiunt . . q. . a. . c. si autem ad veritatem eloquiorum sc. sacrorum respicit , hoc & nos canone utimur . ib. dicendum quod veritas fidei in sacra scriptura diffusè continetur — ideó fuit necessarium ut ex sententiis sacrae scripturae aliquid manifestum summariè colligeretur , quod proponeretur omnibus ad credendum ; quod quidem non est additum sacrae scripturae , sed potius ex sacra scriptura sumptum . . . q. . a. . ad primum . quantum ad prima credibilia , quae sunt articuli fidei , tenetur homo explicitè credere , sicut & tenetur habere fidem . quantum autem ad alia credibilia non tenetur homo explicitè credere , sed solùm implicitè , vel in praeparatione animi in quantum paratus est credere quicquid scriptura continet ; sed tunc solùm hujusmodi tenetur explicitè credere , quando hoc ei constiterit in doctrina fidei contineri . . . q. . a . c. et nihil nobis dicendum est , praeter ea quae nobis ex sacris eloqui● claret . bonav . in sent. dist. . art. . q. . quod autem credimus posterioribus circa quos non apparent virtutes divinae , hoc est , quia non praedicant alia quàm quae illi in scriptis certissimis reliquêrunt , quae constat per medios in nullo fuisse vitiata ex consensicne concordi in eis omnium succedentium usque ad tempora nostra . hen. gandav . sum. a●t . . q. n. . . quia veritas ipsa in scriptura immobiliter & impermutabiliter semper cuf●●ditur . — in personis autem excclesiae mutabilis est & variabil●s ut dissentire fidei possit multitudo illorum , & vel per errorem , vel per malitiam à side discedere licet ; semper ecclesia in aliquibus just●s stabit . art. . q. . n. . suspecta est mihi omnis veritas , quam non confirmat scriptu●arum auctoritas . rich. de s. victore , de praepar . animi ad contempl. part. . c. . de verbo dei l. . c. . c. . cùm enim ex divinis scripturis integram quis & firmam regulam veritatis susceperit . quibus sacris literis unica est credendi pariter & vivendi regul● praescripta . sed in han● insipientiam cadunt , qui cùm ad cognoscendam veritatem aliquo impediuntur obscuro , non ad propheticas voces , non ad apostolicas liter as , nec ad evangelicas auc●oritates , sed ad seipsos recurrunt . nec quasi hoc sacra scriptura contineat , quo negato tota scriptura sacra redditur dubia ; & per consequens articuli fidei , qui habeat per scripturam sacram probari redd●●tur dubii & incerti . extrav . joh. . cum inter gloss. per consequens . turrecrem . de ecclesia , l. . part . . c. . turrecre● . l. . c. . morin . de ordinat . sacris , p. . morin p. . mabillon a. nalect . to. . p. . amalarius de offi●i●s , l. . c. . isidor . de offic . l. . c. . rab. maur. de inst. cler. l. . c. . l. . c. . bed. in cant. l. . de tabernaculo l. . c. . vindic. of the answ. to some late papers . commonit . . c. . cùm sit perfectus scripturarum canon sibique ad omnia satis supérque sufficiat . c. . c. . of the necessity of church-guides p. . p. . p. . tabulae suf●ragial . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ de sp. sancto c. . de vera fide , p. . a. c. p. . c. ascet. reg. . reg . c. . de sp. san●t . c. . c. . c. . c. . richer . hist. conc. general . l. . c. . n. . scot. in l. . sent. dist. . l. . dist. . n. . n. . scripturas esse and tempus adaptatas & variè intellectas , ità ut uno tempore secundùm eurrentem universalem ritum exponerentur , mutato ritu iterum sente●tia mutaretur cusan . ad bohem. epist. . hist. of the council of tr. l. . p. . ibid. l. . c. . p. . p. . can. loc. theol. l. . c. . cajet . in eccles . fine . ad ester c. . ad fin . annot. in cajet . l. . p. . de verb. dei , l. . c. . jul. ruger . de libris canonicis , p. . p. . euseb. l. . c. . l. . c. . philocal . c. . euseb. demonstr . l. . p. . chronic. gr. p. . athanas. ep. . cyril . cabech . . epiph. de mensuris & ponder . basil. in origen . philocal . greg. nazianzen . in carm. amph. in canon . ep. apud balsam . s. chrysost. in gen. hom . . conc. laodicea , c. . no●el . . leont . de sect●s , act. . d●mascen . de ●ide , lib. . c. . niceph chro●●gr . p. . anastas . hist. p. . not. in can. . carthag . niceph. in epigram . metroph . confess . c. . p. . phil. cyprii chronic. eccles . graec. p. . hilar. prolog . in psalm . de praedest . sanctor . c. . prolog . gal. prolog . in lib. salom. ad paul. & eust. ad chromat . ruffin . in symbol . pag. , . greg. moral . in job . l. . c. . can. loc. theol . l. . c. . ad . cath. de ca●o●icis scrip. in opuscul . p. . cassiodor . de instit. divin . liter . cap. , , . c. . s. antonin . sum. hist. p. . tit. . c. . can. loc. theol . l. . c. . part. . tit. . c. . sect. , & . eur in adait . ad lyram ad c. . ester . & . tostat. in matt. pr●f . q. . . xim. praef. ad bib. comp. aug. de civ . dei , lib. . c. . l. . c. . aug. de civ . dei , l. . c. . c. gaudent . c. . de doctr. l. . c. . not. in vigil . taps . p. . hist. concil . trident. l. . c. . ● . . sum. . q. . a. . sixt. senens . biblioth . l. . n. . alphons . à castro , l. . c. . azor. instit. moral . l. . c. . aug. de doct. christian. l . c. . hier. praes . in josuam . socr. l. . c. . soz. l. . c. . nicep . l. . c. . isid. in chron. gothorum . walas . strab. de reb. ec●l . c. . euseb. de vit. const. l. . c. . c. . soz. l. . c. . c. . ammianus marcell . l. . soz. l. . c. . theod. l. . ● . . theod. de cur. graec. affect . serm. . p. . serm. . p. . chrys in joh. hom p. . vit. chrys. c. . conc. eccl. armen . cum rom. c. . p. . hist. orient . c. . abr. ecchell . not . in ebe● . jesu . greg. hist. dynast . . s. chry●ost . bom . . in joh. ambros. hex . . c. . aug. de civit. dei , l. . c. . diod. ad gen. . . theod in psal. . . in ps. . . in ps. . . in ps. . de verb. dei , l. . c. . prodr . copt . c. . p. ● . dissert . epist. . epist. . hottinger . methurgem . p. . de ordinat . sacris , p. . catal. m s s. p. . ludolph . hist. aethiop . l. . c. . gabr. sionita de arab. c. . polyb. l. . conc. turon . . c. . sigeb . ad an. . nithard . l. . freher , in exposit. foederis inter lud. & car. v. capitul . caroli calvi . tit. . marineus sicul . de rebus hisp. l. . ● . . alchuin . de divin . offic. c. . amalar. de offic. l. . c. , . ●●en●● . rer. german . p. . rer. alem. to. . p. . to. . p. . hist. franc. to. . p. . bed. epist. ad egbert , p. . saxon treatise of the old and new testament . bell. de verbo dci , l. . bar. ad an . n. . ave●●in . annal . l. . p. . ●ar . a. . n. . luci. de regno dalmatiae , l. . c. . catal. m s s. p. , . greg. regist. l. . ep. . cum primitiva ecclesia multa dissimulaverit quae à sanctis patribus postmodum sirmatachristianitate , & religione crescente , subti●● examinatione correcta sunt . labb . concil . to. . p. . cochl . c. alex. alesium , a. d. . andrad . defens . concil . trident. l. . ledesma de div. script . quavis ●ingua non leg . p. . pet. sutor de tralatione bibliae , p. . p. . vega de justif . l. . c. . suarez de grat. l. . c. n. . suarez de g●●t . l. . c. . ● . . disputat . ratisbonae an. . p. . hist. conc. trid. l. . c. . n. . rich. de media . vill. in l. . sent . dist . . art . . q. . nich. de orbellis in . sent . dist . . credis non pr●priis meritis , sed pass●●●● domini nostri jesu christi virtute & merito ad gloriam pervenire ? credo . credis quod dominus no●●er jes●s christus pro salute nost●● m●r●●us sit ; & quo●●x propriis meri●is , vel al●o in ●●●ull●s 〈◊〉 salvari nis● in merito p●ss●●nis ejus ? credo . h●● . conf●ss . petricovi , c. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . . . enchirid colon . f. . . adrian . de sacr. eucbar . f. . pet de alliaco , in . l. sent. q. . art . . f. . ● . bicl in l. . sent . dis● . . art . . ●o● . . walden . de sacram. ti● . ● . c . vega i●opu●c . qu. . marfil . in l. . 〈◊〉 . ● . ● . durand . in sent . l. . di●● . . q. . n. . ockam in . s●nt . q. . ad secundum . in. l. . dist . . q. . in l. . dist . . q. . greg. arim. in l. . sent . dist . . art . . scot. in l. . sent . dist . . q . n . bell. de just. l. . c. . jos. scalig. in varr. de l. l. p. . bud . in pandect . pag. . plir● . ep . l. . . cassand . in hymn . eccl. p. . aug. in joh. tr. . n. . neque enim talia sunt hominion merita , ut propter ea vita aeterna deberetur ex jure , aut deus injuriam aliquam faceret , nisi eam donaret . nam ut taceam quod merita ●mnia dona dei sunt , & ita bomo m●gis propter ipsa deo debitor est , qu●m deus bomini , quid sunt merita omnia ad tantam gloriam ? bernard se●m . . de aunur . bellarm. de justis . l. . c. . hugo de s. ●ict . annot. elucidator in rom. lomb. sent. l. . dist . . genebrard . de trinit . l. . p. . pull . sentent . part. . c. . guliel . antis . l. . tr . . q. . de m●rito virt . . . q. . art . . art . . richard. in sent. l. . dist . . art . . q. . nich. deorb . in sent. l. . dist . . hos. confess . petrico c. . p. . p. burg. addit . ad lyram in ps. . bell. de justif . l. . c. . coster . en●●rid . p. . suarez . de grat. l. . c. . n. . vasquez in . . disp. . c. . bhemists on tim. . . on heb. . . gamach . in . . th. q. . c. . concil . . omnes catholici fatentur justos suis bonis operibus mereri gloriam de condigno . aug. reding defens . conc. trident. tr. . se●t . . ad sess . . c. . sess. . can. . c●tech . trident . part. . n. . bell. de sa●●am . l. . ● . . in quatuor quae sunt propriè dict● sacramenta novae legis est forma instituta à domino vel ab ecclesia . alex. halens . part. . q. . m. . . . memb. . a. . memb. . a. . sect . . ●ell . de sacr. l. . ● . . suarez . in . p. tb. tom. . disp. . sect . . lugo de 〈◊〉 . d●p . ● . 〈◊〉 . . p●t . à sanct. joseph . idea theol. sacr. l. . c. . conc. tri● . de confirm . can . conc. florent . decret . u●isnis . ma●●il . in s●●● . l. q. . . . aureol in . d. . q. . greg de val. tom. . q. . pun● . . gui●o brianson in . sent . q. . con● . . guil. antis . in l. . tract . . bonav . in . d. . a. . q. . alex. p. . q. . m●mb . . j●● . de vitr . hi●● . occid . c. ● . aq. p. . q. . a . resp. ad . conink de sacram. q. . a. . dab . . petr. aurel. oper. p , . p. . sirmo● , ant. . p. . p. ● . petr. a●rel . op. p. ● . suarez . to. . q. . p. th. ● . . disp. . sect . . d●●ret . uni●nis . bell. de sacr. ordinis , l. . c. . arcud . de sacram . l. . c. . l●go de sac. disp. . sect . . n. . n. . ysambert . de sacram. ordinis , disp. . art. . hallier de sacris elect. & ordinat . sect . . c. . art . . p. . petr. à sanct. joseph , idea theod. sacr. l. . c. . p. . morin . de sacris ordin . part. . ex. ercit . . c. . c. . n. . n. . c. . n. . bell. de sacram . l. . c. . aug. in joh. tr. . st. aug. ●● . ad bonifac. suarez . t●m . . in . c. q. . disp. . a. . sect . . concil flor. decr. union . concil . trid. sess. . c. . bell. de poenit . l. . c. . soto in l. . sent . d. . q. i. vasq. in . p. ● . art. . n. . enchirid. colon . f. . bell. de poenit . l. . c. . major . in . sent . dist . . q. . biel in . dist . . q. . brianson in . sent . q. . concl. . durand . in l. . dist . . q. . ockam in . sen. q. . scot. in l. . sent . dist . . q. . cancil . trid. sess. . de poenit. sacr. can. . can. . b●●l in . dist . . . . ●ot . . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . . 〈◊〉 . ● . . 〈◊〉 . tostat. defens . part . . c. . ockam in l. . q. . a. . ad . thom. de argent . l. . dist. . a . gul. antis . l. . f. . bonavent . l. . dist . . q. . alex. halens . part . q. . memb . . art . . pet. lomb. l. . dist . . part . . vasquez in . q. . a. . dub . . . hadrian quodlib . q. . . princip . concil . trid. sess. . can. , . cap. , , . suarez in . part . disp . . sect . . n. . bell. de extr. unct. c. . makl . de sacram . extr. unct. q. . greg. de val. to. . disp. . q. punct . . cath. ●●not . in comment . cajet . l. . p. . s●●r . greg. p. . cassand . not . in hymn . p. . maldonat . de sacramen ex●r . unct. q. . gamach . de extr. u●●t . c. . suar●z in . p●r● . disp. ● . 〈◊〉 . . ●reg . sacr. p. . menard . not. p. . p. . p. . p. . suarez ibid. ● . . mald. ib. q. bell. de sacr. l. . c. . c. . conc. trid. sess. . c. . vasq. de sacr. matri● . disp. ● . c. . ● . . greg. de val. to. . disp. . punct . . mald. de sac. matrim . q. . bell. de matr. sa●r . l. . . . navar. max. c. . n. . hostiens . sum. de sacr. non iter . n. . durand . in sent . l. . dist. . q. . eell . de sacr. matr. l. . c. . vasq. da sacr. matr. disp. . ● . . basil. pont. de matr. l. . ● . . n. . almain in . dist. . q. . bell. de sacr. l. . c. . de matrim . sacr. l. . c. . possev . in appar . leo allat . de concord . l. . c. . n. . de simeon . script . p. . &c. crusii turc● groec . leo allat . de concord . l. . c. . n. . n. . n. . n. . n. . act. theolog. wirtemberg . p. . metroph . confess . eccl. orient . p. . leo allat . de concord . e●●l . occident . & orient . l. . c. . arcud . d● concord . l. . c. . c●●●il . trid. de 〈◊〉 . c●● . ● . de sa●ra● . 〈◊〉 . . 〈…〉 . 〈…〉 . concil . trid. de paenit . c. . ●an . . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . p. q. . 〈◊〉 . a● . . arcud de concord . . l. c. . p. ● . p. . catumsyritus de vera conc. proleg . p. . concil . trid. de poenit. c. . can. . arcud . p. . s●● . ● . de 〈◊〉 . or●i● . c●● . . bell. de extr. unit. l. . c. . arcud . de concord . l. . c. . p. . c. . c. . p. . con● . tri● . de extr. 〈◊〉 , c. . catumsyr . vera co●cord . tr. . p. . arcu● . l. . ● c. . conc. trid. s●ss . . can. . ●ell . de matr. l. . c. . pet. jarric . rer j●dic . to. . p. . c. . histoire critique , ch . . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . cotov . itin. hierosol . & syr. p. . godign . de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . l. . ● . 〈◊〉 . ● . 〈◊〉 . clem. ga●an . conc. eccles. arm. cum rom. c. . p. . clem. galan . to. . p. . p. . p. . hugo de s. vict. de offi●● l. . c. . rup . tuit . de vict. verbi . l. . c. . hugo do sac. l. . part . . c. , . fulb. carnot . epist. . de inst. cler. l. . c. . rab. maur. de inst. cler. l. . c. . bell. de sacr. l. . c. . walaf . strab. de reb. e●cl . c. , , . pasch. radb . de c●rp . & sang . dom. c. . isid. orig. . . de officiis . iro decret . p. c. . ysamb. ad . q. . disp. . ● . . ivo ib. c. : alex. consil. s. chrys. in joh. hom . . s. cyril . in joh. l. . leo in epist. ad flavian . s. aug. in joh. tr. . . in ps. de ci●●it . dei , l. . c. . de symbol . c. . bell. de sacr. l. . c. . concil . trid. sess. . de poenit. c. . ib. can. . . , , . maldonat de sacr. poenit. de confess . c. . vasquez in . th. to. . q. . art . . n. . suarez in . p. th. to. . disp. . § . greg. de valent . to. . disp. . q. . punct . . nat. alex. de sacr. confess . p. . hist. confes. auric . c. . lom . sent . l. . dist . . grat. de paenit . dist. . bell. de poenit . l. . c. . hist. confess . auric . p. . vasquez ubi supr . catharin . in cajet . p. . biel in . sent . dist. . q. . a. . brianson q. . doc. . f. . de orbellis ad l. . dist. . almain in . dist. . vasquez ib. dub . . greg. de valent . de necessit . confess . c. . nat. alex. de sacr. confess . p. . cyprian ad jub . ep. . aug. in joh. tr. . s. mark. . . s. luke . . pet. lomb. l. . dist. . hieron . in matth. c. . scot. in l. . dist. . q. unica . bonav . in . dist. . q. . bell. de poen . l. . c. . alex. sum. . p. q. . num . . art . . bell. de poen . l. . c. . albasp . obs. l. . c. . la cerda . advers . sacr. c. . p. . hist. confess . auric . c. . p. . baron . ad a. d. . iren. l. . c. . petav. not. ad epiphan . p. . de la penit. publique , l. . c● . . n. . rigalt . not . in . tert. de p●n . pamel . not . . in tert. de . poenit. albasp . obs. l. . c. . petav. ad epiph . p. . append. ad epiph. c. . p. . 〈◊〉 . illiber . c. , , , &c. de poenit. can . . petav. not . ad epiph. p. . greg. nyss. epist. ad let. c. , . cypr. de lap-●is , ● . . cypr. ep. . cypr. ep. . orig. in levit . hom. . in psal. . hom. . in luc. hom. . hist. confess . auric . c. . n. . pandect . canon . vol. . socr. l. . c. . soz. l. . c. . socr. l. . c. . soz. l. . c. . concil . trid. sess. . c. . can. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . s. chrys. to. . p. . hom. . d● poenit. h●m . . in ad corin●● . petav. not. ad epiphan . p. . cathar . c. cajetan . p. . . hist. confess . auric . p. . cassian . collat . . c. . hist. confess . auric . c. . p. . s. chrys. in matth. hom. . in ep. ad . cor. hom. . hom. in ep. ad ephes. petav. de la penitence publique , l. . ch . . p. . arn. de freq . communione , part. . c. . p. . petav. l. , c. . n. . l. . c. , &c. morin . com. de poenit. l. . c. . theod. vind. p. , &c. hist. confess● . auric . c. . joh. morin . com de poen . l. . c. , . c. . n. , . hist. confess . auric . c. . n. . c. . p. . notes for div a -e apoc. . . accedit ad hoc , locupletissimum testimonium , atque decretum ex indice librorum prohibitorum per patres à tridentina synodo delectos conscripto & authoritate sanctiss . d. nostri pii . p. m. comprobato regula . . jac. ledesma . de divin . script . quavis lingua non legend . c. . alphons . à castro de heret . punit . l. . c. . concil . trid. sess. . c. . a quod indice & regulis confectisper patres à generali synode t●identina dele●●os sanci●um est — praeter ea quae t●dentinorum patrum regul●s supradictis decreta sunt . qui sacrosancti concilii tridentini auctoritate prodierat . e quibus pateat fuisse semper communem & unanimem orthodoxorum omnium sensum ac usum ; divinos libros ac officia ecclesiastica , vernaculo idiomate neutiquam reddendi ; utpote christianae reipubl . damnosum , ac rudibus & imperit is scandali occasionem praebens . collectio auctorum version . vulg . damnant . monit . ad lector . biblia supradicta omnine prohibemus , & ab ecclesia catholicae sub anathemate rejicimus . illam omnim i●p●ob●m●● tanquan ab eccl siae consuctudine alienam , nec niji cum ingenti animarum perni●ie conjunction . dialogue . p. . . p. . dialogues in answer to t. g. part. . a sermon preached before the honourable house of commons at st. margarets westminster, octob. , being the fast-day appointed for the late dreadfull fire in the city of london / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached before the honourable house of commons at st. margarets westminster, octob. , being the fast-day appointed for the late dreadfull fire in the city of london / by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . the fourth edition. 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preached before the honourable house of commons , at st. margarets westminster octob. . . being the fast-day appointed for the late dreadfull fire in the city of london . by edward stillingfleet , b. d. rector of st. andrews holborn , and one of his majesties chaplains in ordinary . published by order of the said house . the fourth edition . london , printed by robert white , for henry mortlock , and 〈…〉 sold at his shop , at the sign of the white 〈◊〉 in westminster hall. . amos . . i have overthrown some of you , as god overthrew soodom and gomorrah , and ye were as a firebrand pluckt out of the burning : yet have ye not returned unto me , saith the lord. it is but a very little time since you met together in this place to lament the remainders of a raging pestilence , which the last year destroyed so many thousand inhabitants of the late great and famous city : and now god hath given us another sad occasion for our fasting and humiliation , by suffering a devouring fire to break forth and consume so many of her habitations . as though the infected air had been too kind and partial , and like saul to the amalekites , had only destroyed the vile and refuse , and spared the greatest of the people ; as though the grave had surfeited with the bodies of the dead , and were loth to go on in the execution of gods displeasure ; he hath imployed a more furious element , which by its merciless and devouring flames might in a more lively manner represent unto us the kindling of his wrath against us . and that by a fire , which began with that violence , and spread with that horrour , and raged with that fury , & continued for so long a time with that irresistible force ; that it might justly fill the beholders with confusion , the hearers of it with amazement , and all of us with a deep and humble sense of those sins which have brought down the judgements of god in so severe a manner in the midst of us . for whatever arguments or reasons we can imagine , that should compose the minds of men to a sense of their own or others calamities , or excite them to an apprehension of the wrath of god as the cause of them , or quicken them to an earnest supplication to him for mercy , they do all eminently concurr in the sad occasion of this dayes solemnity . for if either compassion would move , or fear awaken , or interest engage us to any of these , it is hard to conceive there should be an instance of a more efficacious nature , than that is which we this day bewail ; for who can behold the ruines of so great a city , and not have his bowels of compassion moved towards it ? who can have any sense of the anger of god discovered in it , and not have his fear awakened by it ? who can ( as we ought all ) look upon it as a judgement of universal influence on the whole nation , and not think himself concerned to implore the mercy of heaven towards us ? for certainly , howsoever we may vainly flatter and deceive our selves , these are no common indications of the frowns of heaven ; nor are they meerly intended as the expressions of gods severity towards that city which hath suffered so much by them ; but the stroaks which fall upon the head ( though they light upon that only ) are designed for the punishment of the whole body . were there nothing else but a bare permission of divine providence as to these things , we could not reasonably think , but that g●d must needs be very angry with us , when he suffers two such dreadful calamities to tread almost upon each others heels ; that no sooner had death taken away such multitudes of our inhabitants , but a fire follows it to consume our habitations . a fire , so dreadfull in its appearance , in its rage and fury , and in all the dismal consequences of it ( which we cannot yet be sufficiently apprehensive of ) that on that very account we may justly lie down in our shame , and our confusion cover us : because god hath covered the daughter of sion with a cloud in his anger , and cast down from heaven to earth the beauty of israel , and remembred not his footstool in the day of his anger . for such was the violence and fury of the flames , that they have not only defaced the beauty of the city , and humbled the pride and grandeur of it ; not only stained its glory , and consumed its palaces ; but have made the houses of god themselves a heap of ruines , and a spectacle of desolation . and what then can we propose to our selves as arguments of gods severe displeasure against us , which we have not either already felt , or have just cause to fear are coming upon us without a speedy and sincere amendment ? if a sword abroad and pestilence at home , if fire in our houses and death in our streets , if forreign wars and domestick factions , if a languishing state and a discontented people , if the ruines of the city and poverty of the countrey , may make us sensible how sad our condition at present is , how much worse it may be ( if god in his mercy prevent it not ) we shall all surely think we have reason enough this day to lay to heart the evil of our doings which have brought all these things upon us , and abhor our selves , repenting in dust and ashes . that would seem indeed to bear some analogy with the present ruines of the city , and the calamities we lie under at this time ; but god will more easily dispense with the pompous shews , and solemn garbs of our humiliation ; if our hearts bleed within for our former impieties , and our repentance discovers its sin●erity , by bringing us to that temper ; that , though we have done iniquity , we will do so no more . that is the true and proper end , which almighty god aims at , in all his judgements : he takes no delight in hurling the world into confusions , and turning cities into ruinous heaps , and making whole countries a desolation : but when he sees it necessary to vindicate the honour of his justice to the world , he doth it with that severity that may make us apprehend his displeasure , and yet with that mercy which may incourage us to repent and return unto the lord. thus we find in the instances recorded in the text , when some cities were consumed by him ; so that as far as concerned them , they were made like to sodom and gomorrah : yet he doth it with that kindness to the inhabitants , that they are pluckt as firebrands out of the burning : and therefore he looks upon it as a frustrating the design both of his justice , and of his mercy , when he is fain to conclude with that sad reflection on their incorrigibleness ; yet have ye not returned unto me saith the lord. thus ye see what the design and scope of the words is , which i have read unto you , wherein we may consider , . the severity of the judgement which god was pleased to execute upon them . i have overthrown some of you , as god overthrew sodom and gomorrah . . the mixture of his mercy in the midst of his severity , and ye were as a firebrand pluckt out of the burning . . the incorrigibleness of the people notwithstanding both . yet have ye not , &c. in the first we have gods rod lifted up to strike , in the second we have gods hand stretched out to save , yet neither of these would make them sensible of their disobedience ; though their cities were overthrown for their sakes , though they themselves escaped not for their own sakes , but for his mercies sake only whom they had so highly provoked ; yet have ye not returned unto me , saith the lord. i am sure i may say of the two former parts of the text , as our saviour doth in another case , this day hath this scripture been fulfilled among you : we have seen a sad instance of gods severity , a city almost wholly consumed as sodom and gomorrah , and a great expression of his kindness , the inhabitants saved , as firebrands pluckt out of the burning : o let it never be said that the last part of the words is fulfilled too , yet have ye not returned unto me , &c. which , that it may not be , i shall first consider the severity of god in his judgement this day , and then discover the mixture of his kindness with it , and the result of both will be the unreasonableness of obstinate disobedience after them . . the severity of the judgement here expressed : which though we take it not in reference to the persons of men , but to the cities wherein they dwelt : as it seems to be understood not only by the original , wherein the words relating to persons are left out : but by the following clause , expressing their preservation : yet we shall find the judgement to be severe enough , in regard . of the nature and kind of it . . the series and order of it . . the causes moving to it . . the author of it . i have overthrown some of you , as god overthrew , &c. . the nature and kind of it : we can imagine nothing more severe when we consider what it is set forth by , the most unparalleld judgement we read of , viz. the destruction of sodom and gomorrah by a fire from heaven . although in all circumstances the instance might not come up to the parallel , yet in several respects there might be so sad a desolation , that any other example but that might fall beneath the greatness and severity of it . and we may better understand of how sad and dreadfull a nature such a judgement must be , if we consider it with relation to the suddenness and unexpectedness of it , to the force and violence of it , and to all that sad train of circumstances which attend and follow it . . the suddenness and unexpectedness of it ; as god overthrew sodom and gomorrah , i. e. when they least of all looked for such a desolation . for thus it was in the dayes of lot ( as our saviour tells us ) they did eat , they drank , they bought , they sold , they planted , they builded ; but the same day that lot went out of sodom , it rained fire and brimstome from heaven , and destroyed them all . they were all immersed either in their pleasures or in their business , they little thought of destruction being so near them as it proved to be ; thus it was with the jews in their first and latter destruction both of their city and countrey ; they were as high and as confident of the contrary as might be to the very last ; nothing could perswade them that their temple or their city should be burnt with fire , till they saw them flaming before their eyes . thus josephus observes of his countrey-men , that in the midst of all their miseries they had no kind of sense at all of their sins , but were as proud , presumptuous and arrogant , as if all things went well with them ; and were like to do so . they thought god could not possibly punish such a people as they were in such a manner ; they could easily have believed it of any other people but themselves : but that god should punish his own people in covenant with him , that judgement should begin at the house of god , that they who had loved to be called by his name , should be made examples to all other nations ; this seemed so harsh & incredible that by no means could they entertain it . but god & wise men too thought otherwise of them than they did of themselves : they could not but see an outward shew of religion joyned with a deep and subtil hypocrisie ; there being among them an heap of pride and luxury , of fraud and injustice , of sedition and faction guilded over with a fair shew of greater zeal for god and his glory : which that impartial historian ( as one who knew them well ) hath described at large : and although they could not believe that such heavy judgements should befall them , yet others did not only believe , but tremble at the apprehensions of them . who among all the citizens of london could have been perswaded , but the day before the fire brake out , nay when they saw the flames for near a day together , that ever in four days time , not a fourth part of the city should be left standing ? for when were they ever more secure & inapprehensive of their danger than at this time ? they had not been long returned to their houses , which the plague had driven them from , and now they hoped to make some amends for the loss of their trade before ; but they returned home with the same sins they carryed away with them ; like new moons , they had a new face and appearance , but the same spots remained still : or it may be , increased by that scumm they had gathered in the countries where they had been . like beasts of prey that had been chained up so long till they were hunger-bitten , when they once got loose they ran with that violence and greediness to their wayes of gain , as though nothing could ever satisfie them . but that which betrayed them to so much security , was their late deliverance from so sweeping a judgement as the plague had been to the city and suburbs of it : they could by no means think , when they had all so lately escaped the grave , that the city it self should be so near being buried in its own ruines ; that the fire which had missed their blood should seize upon their houses ; that there should be no other way to purge the infected air , but by the flames of the whole city . thus when the mariners have newly escaped a wreck at sea , the fears of which have a long time deprived them of their wonted rest , they think they may securely lye down and sleep , till it may be another storm overtake and sink them . we see then there is neither piety nor wisdom in so much security when a great danger is over , for we know not but that very security it self may provoke god to send a greater . and no kind of judgements are so dreadful and amazing , as those which come most unexpectedly upon men ; for these betray the succours which reason offers , they infatuate mens councils , weaken their courage , and deprive them of that presence of mind which is necessary at such a time for their own and the publick interest . and there needs no more to let us know how severe such a judgement must be when it comes upon men in so sudden and unexpected a manner ; but that is not all , for the severity of it lyes further , . in the force and violence of it : and surely that was very great which consumed four cities to nothing in so short a time , when god did pluere gehennam de coelo as one expresses it , rained down hell-fire upon sodom and gomorrah . and this is that which some think is called the vengeance of eternal fire , which all those in sodom and gomorrah are said to suffer ; i. e. a fire which consumed , till there was nothing left to be consumed by it . not but that those wicked persons did justly suffer the vengeance of an eternal fire in another life , but the apostle seems to set out and paint forth to us that in the life to come , by the force and violence of that fire which destroyed those cities ; and it would be harsh to say , that all who were involved in that common calamity ( who yet were innocent as to the great abominations of those places , viz. the infants there destroyed ) must be immediately sentenced to eternal misery . but although god since that perpetual monument of his justice in the destruction of those cities hath not by such an immediate fire from heaven consumed and razed out the very foundations of other cities ; yet at some times there are fires which break out and rage with a more than ordinary violence , and will not yield to those attempts for quenching them , which at other times may be attended with great success . such might that great fire in rome be in nero's time , which whether begun casually , or by design ( which was disputed then , as it hath been about others since ) did presently spread it self with greater speed over the cirque ( as the historian tells us ) than the wind it self , and never left burning , till of fourteen regions in rome , but four were left entire . such might that be in the emperour titus his time , which lasted three dayes and nights , and was so irresistible in its fury , that the historian tells us , it was certainly more than an ordinary fire . such might that be in the same city in the time of commodus , which though all the art and industry imaginable were used for the quenching it , yet it burnt , till it had consumed besides the temple of peace , the fairest houses and palaces of the city , which on that account , the historians attribute to more than natural causes . such might that be ( which comes the nearest of any i have met with , to that fire we this day lament the effects of ) i mean that at constantinople , which happened a. d. . in the beginning of september ; it brake forth by the water side , and raged with that horrible fury for four days together , that it burnt down the greatest part of the city , and was so little capable of resistance , that as evagrius tells us , the strongest houses were but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , like so much dryed stubble before it ; by which means the whole city was , as he calls it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a most miserable and doleful spectacle ; so that as baronius expresses it , that city which before was accounted the wonder of the world , was made like to sodom and gomorrah . such likewise might those two great fires have been which have formerly burnt down great part of the then city of london ; but neither of them come near the dreadfulness of this , considering how much bigger the habitations of the city were now , and how much greater the riches of it then could be imagined at those times . how great must we conceive the force of this fire to have been , which having at first gotten a head where there was little means of resisting it , and much fuel to increase it ; from thence it spread it self both with and against the wind ; till it had gained so considerable a force , that it despised all the resistance could be made by the strength of the buildings which stood in its way ; and when it had once subdued the strongest and the tallest of them , it then roared like the waves of the sea , and made its way through all the lesser obstacles , and might have gone on so far , till it had laid this city levell with the ruines of the other , had not he who sets the bounds to the ocean , and saith , thus far shalt thou go and no further , put a stop to it in those places which were as ready to have yielded up themselves to the rage of it , as any which had been consumed before . . the severity of it will yet more appear from all the dreadful circumstances which attend and follow it . could you suppose your selves in the midst of those cities which were consumed by fire from heaven , when it had seized upon their dwellings , o what cryes and lamentations , what yellings and shriekings might ye then have heard among them ! we may well think how dreadful those were , when we do but consider how sad the circumstances were of the fire we mourn for this day . when it began like sampson to break in pieces all the means of resisting it , and carryed before it not only the gates , but the churches and most magnificent structures of the city , what horrour and confusion may we then imagine had seized upon the spirits of the citizens ; what distraction in their councils , what paleness in their countenances , what pantings at their hearts , what an universal consternation might have been then seen upon the minds of men ? but o the sighs and tears , the frights and amazements , the miscarriages , nay the deaths of some of the weaker sex at the terrour and apprehension of it ! o the hurry and useless pains , the alarms and tumults , the mutual hinderances of each other that were among men at the beholding the rage and fury of it ! there we might have seen women weeping for their children , for fear of their being trod down in the press , or lost in the crowd of people , or exposed to the violence of the flames ; husbands more solicitous for the safety of their wives and children , than their own ; the souldiers running to their swords , when there was more need of buckets ; the tradesmen loading their backs with that which had gotten possession of their hearts before . then we might have heard some complaining thus of themselves : o that i had been as carefull of laying up treasures in heaven as i have been upon earth , i had not been under such fears of losing them as now i am ! if i had served god as faithfully as i have done the world , he would never have left me as now that is like to do . what a fool have i been which have spent all my pretious time for the gaining of that which may be now lost in an hours time ! if these flames be so dreadful , what are those which are reserved for them who love the world more than god! if none can come near the heat of this fire , who can dwell with everlasting burnings ! o what madness then will it be to sin any more wilfully against that god who is a consuming fire , infinitely more dreadful than this can be ! farewell then all ye deceitful vanities : now i understand thee and my self better , o bewitching world , then to fix my happiness in thee any more . i will henceforth learn so much wisdom to lay up my treasures there where neither moths can corrupt them , nor thieves steal them , nor fire consume them . o how happy would london be , if this were the effect of her flames on the minds of all her inhabitants ! she might then rise with a greater glory , and her inward beauty would outshine her outward splendour , let it be as great as we can wish or imagine . but in the mean time who can behold her present ruines , without paying some tears as due to the sadness of the spectacle , and more to the sins which caused them ? if that city were able to speak out of its ruines , what sad complaints would it make of all those impieties which have made her so miserable . if it had not been ( might she say ) for the pride and luxury , the ease and delicacy of some of my inhabitants , the covetousness , the fraud , the injustice of others , the debaucheries of the prophane , the open factions and secret hypocrisie of too many pretending to greater sanctity , my beauty had not been thus turned into ashes , nor my glory into those ruines which make my enemies rejoyce , my friends to mourn , and all stand amazed at the beholding of them . look now upon me , you who so lately admired the greatness of my trade , the riches of my merchants , the number of my people , the conveniency of my churches , the multitude of my streets , and see what desolations sin hath made in the earth . look upon me , and then tell me whether it be nothing to dally with heaven , to make a mock at sin , to slight the judgements of god , and abuse his mercies , and after all the attempts of heaven to reclaim a people from their sins , to remain still the same that ever they were ? was there no way to expiate your guilt but by my misery ? had the leprosie of your sins so fretted into my walls , that there was no cleansing them , but by the flames which consume them ? must i mourn in my dust and ashes for your iniquities , while you are so ready to return to the practice of them ? have i suffered so much by reason of them , and do you think to escape your selves ? can you then look upon my ruines with hearts as hard and unconcerned as the stones which lye in them ? if you have any kindness for me , or for your selves , if you ever hope to see my breaches repaired , my beauty restored , my glory advanced , look on londons ruines and repent . thus would she bid her inhabitants not weep for her miseries , but for their own sins ; for if never any sorrow were like to her sorrow , it is because never any sins were like to their sins . not as though they were only the sins of the city , which have brought this evil upon her ; no , but as far as the judgement reaches , so great hath the compass of the sins been , which have provoked god to make her an example of his justice . and i fear the effects of londons calamity will be felt all the nation over . for , considering the present languishing condition of this nation , it will be no easie matter to recover the blood and spirits which have been lost by this fire . so that whether we consider the sadness of those circumstances which accompanied the rage of the fire , or those which respect the present miseries of the city , or the general influence those will have upon the nation , we cannot easily conceive what judgement could in so critical a time have befallen us , which had been more severe for the kind and nature of it , than this hath been . . we consider it in the series and order of it . we see by the text , this comes in the last place , as a reserve , when nothing else would do any good upon them : it is extrema medicina , as st. hierom saith , the last attempt that god uses to reclaim a people by , and if these causticks will not do , it is to be feared he looks on the wounds as incurable . he had sent a famine before , v. . a drought , v. , . blasting and mildew , v. . the pestilence after the manner of egypt , v. . the miseries of war in the same verse . and when none of these would work that effect upon them , which they were designed for , then he comes to this last way of punishing before a final destruction , be overthrew some of their cities as he had overthrown sodom and gomorrah . god forbid , we should be so near a final subversion , and utter desolation , as the ten tribes were , when none of these things would bring them to repentance ; but yet the method god hath used with us seems to bode very ill in case we do not at last return to the lord. for it is not only agreeable to what is here delivered as the course god used to reclaim the israelites , but to what is reported by the most faithfull historian of those times of the degrees and steps that god made before the ruines of the british nation . for gildas tells us the decay of it began by civil wars among themselves , and high discontents remaining as the consequents of them , after this an universal decay and poverty among them , after that , nay during the continuannce of it , wars with the picts and scots their inveterate enemies ; but no sooner had they a little breathing space , but they return to their luxury and other sins again ; then god sends among them a consuming pestilence , which destroyed an incredible number of people . when all this would not do , those whom they trusted most to , betrayed them , and rebelled against them , by whose means , not only the cities were burnt with fire , but the whole island was turned almost into one continued flame . the issue of all which at last was , that their countrey was turned to a desolation , the ancient inhabitants driven out , or destroyed , and their former servants , but now their bitter enemies , possessing their habitations . may god avert the omen from us at this day . we have smarted by civil wars , and the dreadful effects of them ; we yet complain of great discontents and poverty as great as them , we have inveterate enemies combined abroad against us , we have very lately suffered under a pestilence as great almost as any we read of , and now the great city of our nation burnt down by a dreadful fire . and what do all these things mean ? and what will the issue of them be ? though that be lockt up in the councils of heaven , yet we have just cause to fear , if it be not our speedy amendment , it may be our ruine . and they who think that incredible , let them tell me whether two years since , they did not think it altogether as improbable , that in the compass of the two succeeding years , above a hundred thousand persons should be destroyed by the plague in london and other places , and the city it self should be burnt to the ground ? and if our fears do not , i am sure our sins may tell us , that these are but the fore-runners of greater calamities , in case there be not a timely reformation of our selves . and although god may give us some intermissions of punishments , yet at last he may , as the roman consul expressed it , pay us intercalatae poenae usuram , that which may make amends for all his abatements , and give us full measure according to that of our sins , pressed down , shaken together , and running over . which leads to the third particular . . the causes moving god to so much severity in his judgements , which are the greatness of the sins committed against him . so this prophet tels us , that the true account of all gods punishments is to be fetched from the sins of the people , amos . . for three transgressions of damascus , and for four i will not turn away the punishment thereof : so it is said of gaza , v. . of tyrus , v. . of edom , v. . of ammon , v. . moab , ch . . . judah , v. . and at last israel , v. . and it is observable of every one of these , that when god threatens to punish them for the greatness of their iniquities , and the multitude of their transgressions , ( which is generally supposed to be meant by the three transgressions and the four ) he doth particularly threaten to send a fire among them to consume the houses and the palaces of their cities . so to damascus , chap. . . to gaza , v. . to tyrus , v. . to edom , v. . to ammon , v. . to moab , ch . . v. . to judah , v. . i will send a fire upon judah , and it shall devour the palaces of jerusalem : and israel in the words of the text . this is a judgement then , which when it comes in its fury , gives us notice to how great a height our sins are risen ; especially when it hath so many dreadful fore-runners , as it had in israel , and hath had among our selves . when the red horse hath marched furiously before it all bloody with the effects of a civil war , and the pale horse hath followed after the other with death upon his back , and the grave at his heels , and after both these , those come , out of whose mouth issues fire , and smoak , and brimstone , it is then time for the inhabitants of the earth , to repent of the work of their hands . but it is our great unhappiness that we are apt to impute these great calamities to any thing rather than to our sins ; and thereby we hinder our selves from the true remedy , because we will not understand the cause of our distemper . though god hath not sent prophets among us , to tell us for such and such sins , i will send such and such judgements upon you , yet where we observe the parallel between the sins and the punishments agreeable with what we find recorded in scripture , we have reason to say that those sins were not only the antecedents , but the causes of those punishments which followed after them . and that because the reason of punishment was not built upon any particular relation between god and the people of israel , but upon reasons common to all mankind ; yet with this difference , that the greater the mercies were which any people enjoyed , the sooner was the measure of their iniquities filled up , and the severer were the judgements when they came upon them . this our prophet gives an account of , chap. . . you only have i known of all the nations of the earth , therefore will i punish you for your iniquities . so did god punish tyre and damascus , as well as israel and judah ; but his meaning is , he would punish them sooner , he would punish them more severely . i wish we could be brought once to consider what influence piety and vertue hath upon the good of a nation , if we did , we should not only live better our selves , but our kingdom & nation might flourish more than otherwise we are like to see it do . which is a truth hath been so universally received among the wise men of all ages , that one of the roman historians , though of no very severe life himself , yet imputes the decay of the roman state , not to chance or fortune , or some unhidden causes ( which the atheism of our age would presently do ) but to the general loosness of mens lives , and corruption of their manners . and it was the grave observation of one of the bravest captains ever the roman state had , that it was impossible for any state to be happy , stantibus moenibus , ruentibus moribus , though their walls were firm , if their manners were decayed . but it is our misery , that our walls and our manners are fallen together , or rather the latter undermined the former . they are our sins which have drawn so much of our blood , and infected our air , and added the greatest fuell to our flames . but it is not enough in general to declaim against our sins , but we must search out particularly those predominant vices , which by their boldness and frequency have provoked god thus to punish us ; and as we have hitherto observed a parallel between the judgements of israel in this chapter , and our own : so i am afraid we shall find too sad a parallel between their sins and ours too . three sorts of sins are here spoken of in a peculiar manner , as the causes of their severe punishments , their luxury and intemperance , their covetousness and oppression , and their contempt of god and his laws , and i doubt we need not make a very exact scrutiny to find out these in a high degree among our selves : and i wish it were as easie to reform them , as to find them out . . luxury and intemperance ; that we meet with in the first verse , both in the compellation , ye kine of bashan , and in their behaviour , which say to their masters , bring , and let us drink . ye kine of bashan , loquitur ad principes israel & optimates quosque decem tribuum , saith st. hierom , he speaks to the princes of israel , and the chief of all the ten tribes ; those which are fed in the richest pastures , such as those of bashan were . who are more fully described by the prophet in his sixth chapter . they are the men who are at ease in sion , v. . they put far away from them the evil day , v. . they lye upon beds of ivory , and stretch themselves upon their couches , and eat the lambs out of the flock , and the calves out of the midst of the stall , v. . they chaunt to the sound of the viol , and invent to themselves instruments of musick like david , v. . they drink wine in bowls , and anoint themselves with the chief oyntments , but they are not grieved for the affliction of joseph . the meaning of all which is , they minded nothing but ease , softness , and pleasure , but could not endure to hear of the calamities which were so near them . nothing but mirth , and jollity , and riot , and feasting , and the evil consequences of these were to be seen or heard among them . their delicate souls were presently ruffled and disturbed at the discourse of any thing but matters of courtship , address and entertainment . any thing that was grave and serious , though never so necessary , and of the greatest importance , was put off , as felix put off st. paul to a more convenient time : especially if it threatned miseries to them , and appeared with a countenance sadder than their own . these were the kine of bashan , who were full of ease and wantonness , and never thought of the day of slaughter , which the other were the certain forerunners of . symmachus renders it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which others apply to the rich citizens of samaria , i am afraid we may take it in either sense without a soloecism . bring and let us drink , which as st. hierom goes on , ebrietatem significat in vino & luxuria quae statum mentis evertunt , it implies the height of their luxury and intemperance . it is observed by some , that our prophet retatins still the language of his education in the bluntness of his expressions , the great men that lived wholly at their ease , in wantonness and luxury , he styles like the heardsman of tekoa , the kine of bashan . that he thought was title good enough for such who seemed to have souls for no other end , than the other had . and hath not that delicata insania , as st. austin calls it , that soft and effeminate kind of madness taken possession of too many among us , whose birth and education designed them for more manly imployments ? yea , what an age of luxury do we live in , when instead of those noble characters of men from their vertue , and wisdom , and courage , it is looked on among some as a mighty character of a person , that he eats and drinks well : a character that becomes none so much as the kine of bashan in the literal sense , for surely they did so , or else they had never been in so much esteem among the heardsmen of tokoa . a character which those philosophers would have been ashamed of , who looked upon no other end of humane life but pleasure ; but in order to that , they thought nothing more necessary than temperance and sobriety ; but whatever esteem they had then , they have lost all their reputation among our modern epicures , who know of no such things as pleasures of the mind , and would not much value whether they had any faculties of the mind or no , unless it were for the contrivance of new oaths and debaucheries . but if this were only among some few persons , we hope the whole nation would not suffer for their madness : for scarce any age hath been so happy , but it hath had some monsters in morality as well as nature . but i am afraid these vices are grown too epidemical ; not only in the city , but the countries too ; what mean else those frequent complaints ( and i hope more general then the causes of them ) that the houses of great men in too many places are so near being publick schools of debauchery , rather than of piety and vertue , where men shall not want instructers to teach them to forget both god and themselves ; wherein sobriety is so far from being accounted a matter of honour , that the rules of the persian civility are quite forgotten , and men are forced to unman themselves . i know nothing would tend more to the honour of our nation , or the advantage of it , then if once these publick excesses were severely restrained , i do not mean so much by making new laws , ( for those generally do but exercise peoples wits by finding out new evasions ) but by executing old ones . . covetousness and oppression . you see what these great men in samaria did when they had any respite from their excesses and intemperance , then woe be to the poor who come in their way ; vvhich oppress the poor , and crush the needy : v. i. either by the hands of violence , or by those arts and devices which either their honesty or poverty have kept them from the knowledge of . and if there be not so much of open violence in our dayes , the thanks are due to the care of our magistrates , and the severity of our laws , but it is hard to say whether ever any age produced more studious and skilful to pervert the design of laws , without breaking the letter of them , than this of ours hath done . fraud and injustice is now managed with a great deal of artifice and cunning ; and he thinks himself no body in the understanding of the world , that cannot over-reach his brother , and not be discovered : or however in the multiplicity and obscurity of our laws cannot find out something in pretence at least to justifie his actions by . but if appeal be made to the courts of judicature , what arts are then used either for concealing or hiring witnesses , so that if their purses be not equal , the adverse party may overswear him by so much as his purse is weightier than the others . i heartily wish it may never be said of us , what the orator once said of the greeks , quibus jusjurandum jocus , testimonium ludus , they made it a matter of jest and drollery to for swear themselves , and give false testimonies . but supposing men keep within the bounds of justice and common honesty , yet how unsatiable are the desires of men ? they are for adding house to house , and land to land , never contented with what either their ancestors have left them , or the bountiful hand of heaven hath bestowed upon them . till at last it may be in the prophets expression for their covetousness , the stone cry out of the wall , and the beam out of the timber answer it ; i. e. provoke god to give a severe check to the exorbitant and boundless desires of men , as he hath done by this dayes calamity . thus while the city thought with babylon to sit as a lady for ever , while she dwelt carelesly , and said i am , and there is none else besides me ; evil is come upon her , and she knows not from whence it comes , and mischief is fallen upon her , and she hath not been able to put it off , and desolation is come upon her suddenly , which she did not foresee . . contempt of god and his laws . that we read of v . where the prophet speaks by an irony to them , come to bethel and transgress , &c. he knew well enough they were resolved to do it , let god or the prophet say what they pleased . for these kine of bashan were all for the calves of dan and bethel , and some think that is the reason of the title that is given them . these great men of samaria thought it beneath them to own religion any further than it was subservient to their civil interests . they were all of jeroboams religion , who looked on it as a meer politick thing , and fit to advance his own designs by . i am afraid there are too many at this day who are secretly of his mind , and think it a piece of wisdom to be so : blessed god , that men should be so wise to deceive themselves , and go down with so much discretion to hell ! these are the grave and retired atheists , who , though they secretly love not religion , yet their caution hinders them from talking much against it . but there is a sort of men much more common than the other ; the faculties of whose minds are so thin and aiery , that they will not bear the consideration of any thing , much less of religion ; these throw out their bitter scoffs , and prophane jests against it . a thing never permitted that i know of in any civilized nation in the world ; whatsoever their religion was , the reputation of religion was alwayes preserved sacred : god himself would not suffer the jews to speak evil of other gods though they were to destroy all those who tempted them to the worship of them . and shall we suffer the most excellent and reasonable religion in the world , viz. the christian , to be profaned by the unhallowed mouths of any who will venture to be damned , to be accounted witty ? if their enquiries were deeper , their reason stronger , or their arguments more perswasive , than of those who have made it their utmost care and business to search into these things , they ought to be allowed a fair hearing ; but for men who pretend to none of these things , yet still to make religion the object of their scoffs and raillery , doth not become the gravity of a nation professing wisdom to permit it , much less the sobriety of a people professing christianity . in the mean time such persons may know that wise men may be argued out of a religion they own , but none but fools and mad men will be droll'd out of it . let them first try whether they can laugh men out of their estates , before they attempt to do it out of their hopes of an eternal happiness . and i am sure it will be no comfort to them in another world , that they were accounted wits for deriding those miseries which they then feel and smart under the severity of : it will be no mitigation of their flames that they go laughing into them ; nor will they endure them the better because they would not believe them . but while this is so prevailing a humour among the vain men of this age and nation , what can we expect but that god should by remarkable and severe judgements , seek to make men more serious in religion , or else make their hearts to ake , and their joynts to tremble , as he did belshazzars , when he could find nothing else to carouse in but the vessels of the temple . and when men said in the prophet zephany , chap. . . that god neither did good nor evil , presently it follows , therefore their goods shall become a booty , and their houses a desolation : the day of the lord is near , a day of wrath , a day of trouble and distress , a day of wasteness and desolation ; as it is with us at this time . thus we see how sad the parallel hath been not only in the judgements of israel , but in the sins likewise which have made those judgements so severe . . the severity of the judgement appears not only from the causes , but from the author of it . i have overthrown some of you as god overthrew sodom and gomorrah . god challenges the execution of his justice to himself , not only in the great day , but in his judgement here in the world . shall there be evil in a city , and the lord hath not done it ? when god is pleased to punish men for their sins , the execution of his justice is as agreeable to his nature now , as it will be at the end of the world . we all know that he may do it if he please , and he hath told us , that he doth and will do it ; and we know withall , that without such remarkable severities , the world will hardly be kept in any a we of him . we do not find that love doth so much in the world as fear doth , there being so very few persons of tractable and ingenuous spirits . it is true of too many , what lactantius observes of the romans , nunquam dei meminerunt , nisi dum in malis sunt , they seldom think of god , but when they are afraid of him . and there is not only this reason as to particular persons why god should punish them , but there is a greater as to communities , and bodies of men ; for although god suffers wicked men to escape punishment here , as he often doth ; yet he is sure not to do it in the life to come ; but communities of men can never be punished but in this world ; and therefore the justice of god doth often discover it selr in these common calamities , to keep the world in subjection to him , and to let men see that neither the multitude of their associates , nor the depth of their designs , nor the subtilty of their councils can secure them from the omnipotent arm of divine justice , when he hath determined to visit their transgressions with rods , and their iniquities with stripes . but when he doth all this , yet his loving kindness doth he not utterly take from them : for in the midst of all his judgements he is pleased to remember mercy ; of which we have a remarkable instance in the text , for when god was overthrowing cities , yet he pluckt the inhabitants as firebrands out of the burning : and so i come from the severity of god , . to the mixture of his mercy in it . and ye were as a fire-brand pluckt out of the burning . that notes two things , the nearness they were in to the danger , and the unexpectedness of their deliverance out of it . . the nearness they were in to the danger , quasi torris , cujus jam magna pars absumpta est , as some paraphrase it ; like a brand , the greatest part of which is already consumed by fire ; which shews the difficulty of their escaping . so joshua is said to be a brand pluckt out of the fire , zech. . . and to this st. hierom upon this place , applyes that difficult passage , cor. . . they shall be saved , but so as by fire , nothing the greatness of the danger they were in , and how hardly they should escape . and are not all the inhabitants of this city , and all of us in the suburbs of the other , whose houses escaped so near the flames , as firebrands pluckt out of the burning ? when the fire came on in its rage and fury , as though it would in a short time have devoured all before it , that not only this whole city , but so great a part of the suburbs of the other should escape untouched , is ( all circumstances considered ) a wonderful expression of the kindness of god to us in the midst of so much severity . if he had suffered the fire to go on to have consumed the remainder of our churches and houses , and laid this city even with the other in one continued heap of ruines , we must have said , just art thou o lord , and righteous in all thy judgements . we ought rather to have admired his patience in sparing us so long ; then complain of this rigour of his justice in punishing us at last ; but instead of that he hath given us occasion this day with the three children in the fiery furnace to praise him in the midst of the flames . for even the inhabitants of london themselves who have suffered most in this calamity , have cause to acknowledge the mercy of god towards them , that they are escaped themselves ; though it be ( as the jews report of joshua , the high priest , when thrown into the fire by the chaldeans ) with their cloaths burnt about them . though their habitations be consumed , and their losses otherwise may be too great , yet that in the midst of so much danger by the flames , and the press of people so very few should suffer the loss of their lives , ought to be owned by them and us as a miraculous providence of god towards them . and therefore not unto us , not unto us , but to his holy name be the praise of so great a preservation in the midst of so heavy a judgement . . the unexpectedness of such a deliverance ; they are not saved by their own skill and counsell , nor by their strength and industry , but by him who by his mighty hand did pluck them as firebrands out of the burning . though we own the justice of god in the calamities of this day , let us not forget his mercy in what he hath unexpectedly rescued from the fury of the flames ; that the royal palaces of our gracious soveraign , the residence of the nobility , the houses of parliament , the courts of judicature , the place where we are now assembled and several others of the same nature , with other places and habitations to receive those who were burnt out of their own , stand at this day untouched with the fire ( and long may they continue so ) ought chiefly to be ascribed to the power and goodness of that god , who not only commands the raging of the sea , and the madness of the people , but whom the winds and the flames obey . although enough in a due subordination to divine providence can never be attributed to the mighty care and industry of our most gracious soveraign , and his royal highness , who by their presence and incouragement inspired a new life and vigour into the sinking spirits of the citizens , whereby god was pleased so far to succeed their endeavours , that a stop was put to the fury of the fire in such places where it was as likely to have prevailed , as in any parts of the city consumed by it . o let us not then frustrate the design of so much severity mixed with so great mercy : let it never be said , that neither judgements nor kindness will work upon us : that neither our deliverance from the pestilence which walks in darkness , nor from the flames which shine as the noon-day , will awaken us from that lethargy and security we are in by our sins : but let god take what course he pleases with us , we are the same incorrigible people still that ever we were . for we have cause enough for our mourning and lamentation this day , ( if god had not sent new calamities upon us ) that we were no better for those we had undergone before . we have surfetted with mercies , and grown sick of the kindness of heaven to us , and when god hath made us smart for our fulness and wantonness , then we grew sullen and murmured and disputed against providence , and were willing to do any thing but repent of our sins and reform our lives . it is not many years since god blessed us with great and undeserved blessings , which we then thought our selves very thankful for ; but if we had been really so , we should never have provoked him who bestowed those favours upon us in so great a degree as we have done since . was this our requital to him for restoring our soveraign , to rebell the more against heaven ? was this our thankfulness , for removing the disorders of church and state , to bring them into our lives ? had we no other way of trying the continuance of gods goodness to us , but by exercising his patience by our greater provocations ? as though we had resolved to let the world see , there could be a more unthankful and disobedient people than the jews had been . thus we sinned with as much security and confidence , as though we had blinded the eyes , or bribed the justice , or commanded the power of heaven : when god of a sudden like one highly provoked drew forth the sword of his destroying angel , and by it cut off so many thousands in the midst of us . then we fell upon our knees , and begg'd the mercy of heaven that our lives might be spared , that we might have time to amend them : but no sooner did our fears abate , but our devotion did so too , we had soon forgotten the promises we made in the day of our distress , and i am afraid it is at this day too true of us which is said in the revelations of those who had escaped the several plagues which so many had been destroyed by . and the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues , yet repented not of the work of their hands . for if we had not greedily suckt in again the poison we had only laid down while we were begging for our lives , if we had not returned with as great fury and violence as ever to our former lusts , the removing of one judgement had not been as it were only to make way for the coming on of another . for the grave seemed to close up her mouth , and death by degrees to withdraw himself , that the fire might come upon the stage , to act its part too in the tragoedy our sins have made among us : and i pray god this may be the last act of it . let us not then provoke god to find out new methods of vengeance , and make experiments upon us of what other unheard of severities may do for our cure . but let us rather meet god now by our repentance , and returning to him , by our serious humiliation for our former sins , and our stedfast resolutions to return no more to the practice of them . that , that much more dangerous infection of our souls may be cured as well as that of our bodies , that the impure flames which burn within may be extinguished , that all our luxuries may be retrenched , our debaucheries punished , our vanities taken away , our careless indifferency in religion turned into a greater seriousness both in the profession and the practise of it . so will god make us a happy and prosperous , when he finds us a more righteous and holy nation . so will god succeed all your endeavours for the honour and interest of that people whom you represent . so may he add that other title to the rest of those you have deserved for your countries good , to make you repairers of the breaches of the city as well as of the nation , and restorers of paths to dwell in : so may that city which now sits solitary like a widow , have her tears wiped off , and her beauty and comeliness restored unto her . yea so may her present ruines , in which she now lyes buried , be only the forerunners of a more joyfull resurrection . in which though the body may remain the same , the qualities may be so altered , that its present desolation may be only the puting off its former inconveniencies , weakness , and deformities , that it may rise with greater glory , strength and proportion : and to all her other qualities , may that of incorruption be added too , at least till the general conflagration . and i know your great wisdom and justice will take care , that those who have suffered by the ruines , may not likewise suffer by the rising of it , that the glory of the city may not be laid upon the tears of the orphans and widows , but that its foundations may be setled upon justice and piety . that there be no complaining in the streets for want of righteousness , nor in the city for want of churches , nor in the churches for want of a setled maintenance . that those who attend upon the service of god in them may never be tempted to betray their consciences to gain a livelihood , nor to comply with the factious humors of men that they may be able to live among them . and thus when the city through the blessing of heaven shall be built again , may it be a habitation of holiness towards god , of loyalty towards our gracious king and his successours , of justice and righteousness towards men , of sobriety , and peace , and unity among all the inhabitants , till not cities and countries only , but the world and time it self shall be no more . which god of his infinite mercy grant through the merits and mediation of his son , to whom with the father and eternal spirit , be all honour and glory for evermore . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e lam. . . luke . , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . de bell . jud. l. . c. . jude . tacit. an. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . x●phil . in epit. dion . in tito . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . herod . an in commod . hist. l. . p. . v. x●phil . ad fin . commodi . nic●p● . l. . c. evagr. l. . cap. . baron . tom. . a. . hieron . in lo● . gildas de ●xcid . brit. scipio apud ang. de civ . d. l. . c. . cicer. pro flacco . hab. . . is● . . , , . zeph. . , , . amos . lact. l. . c. . rev. . . a discourse concerning the illegality of the late ecclesiastical commission in answer to the vindication and defence of it : wherein the true notion of the legal supremacy is cleared, and an account is given of the nature, original, and mischief of the dispensing power. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a discourse concerning the illegality of the late ecclesiastical commission in answer to the vindication and defence of it : wherein the true notion of the legal supremacy is cleared, and an account is given of the nature, original, and mischief of the dispensing power. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed for henry mortlock, london : . reproduction of original in the huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng england and wales. -- ecclesiastical commission ( ) great britain -- church history -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a discourse concerning the illegality of the late ecclesiastical commission , in answer to the vindication and defence of it : wherein the true notion of the legal supremacy is cleared ; and an account is given of the nature , original , and mischief of the dispensing power . london , printed for henny mortlock , at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , and at the white hart in westminster-hall , m d c lxxxix . an advertisement . this discourse concerning the illegality of the late ecclesiastical commission , was written when the author of it was summoned to appear before it ; and was in continual expectation of undergoing its censure , for not complying with the orders of it . this put him upon an enquiry into the grounds on which it stood . from whence he proceeded to search into the true notion of the legal supremacy ; and finding it very imperfectly set down in the famous fifth report , de jure regis ecclesiastico , he took the pains to examin it through every reign , there mentioned ; and upon the whole matter he finds him and his adversary f. p. equally mistaken . but in the management of it he hath rather endeavoured to give light to the thing , than to discover any mans errors . and it is hardly possible to settle the notion of it aright , without considering the practice of other countries , as well as our own : of both which the reader will find a short but impartial account ; which i believe the author could more easily have inlarged , than have brought it into so narrow a compass . by this , i hope , the world will see , that it was not humor or faction , but a real and well-grounded dissatisfaction , which made those of the church of england oppose the proceedings of that time ; and that such have as great and real a zeal for the ancient and legal constitution of our government , as those who make a greater noise and clamor about it ; and that , not upon any new notions or phrases , but upon the very same grounds which our ancestors made use of ; and carry in them the true basis of our english government . it is possible some worthy men may have carried some notions beyond our legal constitution ; but the more they search into it , the better opinion they will have of it . which , i think , is so well setled , that every deviation from it tends to our ruin. as to the dispensing power , the author hath inlarged that part , since some late discourses have been published , both for and against it . he hath neglected nothing which hath been most plausibly pleaded for it ; but hath given a full answer to the most material instances which have been insisted on , in behalf of it . and after all , i cannot but conclude , that the dispensing power is a kind of mental reservation , which quite alters the meaning and design of a law. when the late ecclesiastical commission was superseded ( if not dissolved ) the author laid by these papers as useless ; but having communicated them to one particular friend , ( whose judgment and authority he had a great regard to ) he hath been prevailed with by him , to make them publick at this time : it being still necessary to shew , with what justice and reason , we refused to own the jurisdiction of it . and it seems to me as hard to reconcile it to our laws , as liberty of conscience to the principles of popery , or the worship of images to the second commandment . the contents . chap. i. the state of the question concerning the court of the late ecclesiastical commission . pag. chap. ii. the king's supremacy by common-law enquired into ; coke's fifth report , de jure regis ecclesiastico , examined . p. chap. iii. whether the king's supremacy by law extends to the dispensing with laws : of the nature and original of that power ; the inconsistency of such a dispensing power with the frame of our government . p. chap. iv. of the alterations made in the supremacy , by the statutes of henry the eighth ; with an answer to the objections . p. the legality of the court of ecclesiastical commission stated and argued ; in answer to the vindication and defence of it . chap. i. the state of the question concerning the court of the late ecclesiastical commission . the case stands thus ; by the act of eliz. . it was established and enacted , that such jurisdictions , priviledges , superiorities and preheminencies spiritual and ecclesiastical , as by any spiritual or ecclesiastical power or authority , have heretofore been or may lawfully be exercised or used for the visitation of the ecclesiastical state and persons , and for reformation , order and correction of the same , and of all manner of errors , heresies , schisms , abuses , offences , contempts and enormities , shall for ever by this present parliament be united and annexed to the imperial crown of this realm . and that the kings and queens of this realm shall have ful power and authority by virtue of this act by letters patents under the great seal of england , to assign , name and authorize , when and as often as they shall think meet and convenient , and for such and so long time as they shall think meet to exercise , use , occupy and execute all manner of jurisdictions , priviledges and preheminences in any wise , touching or concerning any spiritual or ecclesiastical jurisdiction within these realms ; and to visit , reform , redress , order , correct and amend all such errors , heresies , schisms , abuses , offences , contempts and enormities what soever , which by any manner of spiritual or ecclesiastical power , authority or jurisdiction can or may lawfully be reformed , ordered , redressed , corrected , restrained or amended to the pleasure of almighty god , the increase of virtue , and the conservation of the peace and unity of this realm : and that such person and persons so to be named , authorized and appointed after the said letters patents to him or them made and delivered , shall have full power and authority , by virtue of this act , and of the said letters patents to exercise , use and execute all the premises , according to the tenour and effect of the said letters patents , any matter or cause to the contrary , in any wise , notwithstanding . but in the act car. . c. . after the recital of this latter clause , these words follow , and whereas by colour of some words in the aforesaid branch of the said act , whereby commissioners areauthorized to execute their commission , according to the tenor and effect of the king's letters patents , and by letters patents grounded thereupon , the said commissioners have to the great and unsufferable wrong and oppression of the king's subjects , used to fine and imprison them , and to exercise authority not belonging to ecclesiastical jurisdiction restored by that act ; and divers other great mischiefs and inconveniences have also ensued to the king's subjects by occasion of the said branch and commissions issued thereupon , and the executions thereof ; therefore for the repressing and preventing of the aforesaid abuses , mischiefs and inconveniences in time to come , be it enacted by the king 's most excellent majesty and the lords and commons in this present parliament assembled , and by the authority of the same , that the aforesaid branch , clause , article or sentence shall from henceforth be repealed , annulled , revoked , annihilated and made void for ever , any thing in the said act to the contrary , in any wise , notwithstanding . then after a clause relating to ordinary jurisdiction , repealed car. . c. . the act concludes thus , and be it further enacted , that from and after the said first day of august , no new court shall be erected , ordained or appointed within this realm of england or dominion of wales , which shall or may have the live power , jurisdiction or authority as the said high-commission-court now hath or pretendeth to have , but that all and every such letters patents , commissions and grants made or to be made by his majesty , his heirs and successors ; and all powers and authorities granted or pretended , or mentioned to be granted thereby , and all acts , sentences and decrees to be made by virtue or colour thereof , shall be utterly void and of none effect . by the act , car. . c. . this repeal stands good in the first proviso ; and in the second clause , where that which concerns ordinary jurisdictions , is repealed , an exception is put in , in these words , excepting what concerns the high-commission-court , or the new erecting some such like court by commission . the case which arises from hence , is , whether these acts of parliament only take away the power of fining and imprisoning , from any ecclesiastical commission , granted by the king ; so that notwithstanding these repeals , the king may still constitute a commission proceeding by ecclesiastical censures : and for the same ends which are expresly mentioned in the statu te repealed , viz. to exercise , use , occupy and execute all manner of jurisdictions , privileges and preheminences in any wise touching or concerning any spiritual or ecclesiastical jurisdiction within this realm of england , and dominion of wales , and to visit , reform , order , correct and amend all abuses , offences , contempts and enormities whatsoever , which by the spiritual and ecclesiastical laws of this realm , can or may lawfully be reformed , ordered , redressed , corrected , restrained , or amended , to the pleasure of almighty god , the increase of vertue , and the conservation of the peace and unity of this realm . these are the powers of the present commission , and are the same which are mentioned in the act of repeal , car. . c. . only errors , heresies and schisms , being left out . it cannot be denied , that the power of fining and imprisoning , is most expresly taken away , and that is assigned as one reason and occasion of repealing the clause of eliz. . which establishes the court ; but i cannot be satisfied , that this was all that was intended by the act car. . c. . and that for these reasons : . if no more had been intended , then it had been sufficient to have destroyed the letters patents by which the power of fining and imprisoning was granted , without mentioning the act of parliament , which gives no such power . but the act of repeal , car. . c. . begins with the act of parliament : whereas in the parliament holden in the first year of queen eliz. there was an act made and established , &c. in which act , among other things , there is contained one clause , branch , article or sentence , whereby it was enacted to this effect , &c. then follows all the enactin ; clause ; and after it , the abuses of the power , by the letters patents are reckoned up , viz. fining and imprisoning , and other great mischiefs and inconveniences : therefore , for the repressing and preventing of them , not meerly the power to fine and imprison ; but the whole clause , and all things contained in it , are from thenceforth repealed , annulled , revoked , annihilated , and utterly made void for ever . what need all this , if no more were designed than to take away the power of fining and imprisoning ? it is plausibly argued by the lord coke , that the power to fine and imprison , was not agreeable to the design of the act. . because the title of it is , an act restoring to the crown the ancient jurisdiction ; but the ancient jurisdiction ecclesiastical had not a power to fine and imprison , but proceeded only by ecclesiastical censures . . because the power to reform , order and correct all errors , heresies , &c. was to be such as may be lawfully reformed , corrected , restrained , or amended by any manner of spiritual , ecclesiastical power , authority or jurisdiction , which did not extend to fine and imprisonment . . the tenor of the letters patents was to exercise , use and execute all the premises . since therefore the premises go no further than ecclesiastical jurisdiction , the letters patents could give no such power , being in pursuance of the act. but it is agreed , saith he , that before this act no man could be punished by fine and imprisonment by any ecclesiastical power , unless it were by force of some act of parliament . but because the act saith , they are to use and execute all the premises according to the tenor and effect of the letters patents ; others have thought , that the power to fine and imprison , being within the letters patents , the act of parliament did bear them out in pursuing what was in the tenor of them . but in my opinion , this matter ought to be a little further cleared ; and therefore we must distinguish between the original commission , and the supplemental power , added to enforce it . the original commission extended no farther than ecclesiastical jurisdiction , as is plain from tho reading of the statute ; and that of it self could go no further than ecclesiastical censure . but because of the circumstance of that time , when ( as the lord hobart , in a m. s. discourse of the high commission observes ) the persons most concerned did slight the ecclesiastical censures ; therefore it was thought necessary in the letters patents to grant them a new commission to enforce the former , and that extended to fine and imprisonment : for in the high commission for the province of york , ( which is preserved ) distinct powers are granted , which are not in the act. for , whereas the act goes no further than the ecclesiastical jurisdiction , the commission gives them power to proceed after another manner than by ecclesiastical censures ; for the words are , contumaces autem & rebelles , si quos invenerint , tam per censuras ecclesiasticas , quam personarum apprehensionem , & incarcerationem , &c. ac quaecunque alia juris regni nostri remedia compescendum , &c. here we see plainly a conjunction of the power of common law , added to that of the high commission , by virtue of the act of parliament , and so in all probability it was in the letters patents for the high commission in this province , which bore equal date with the former . and although the date of the high commission was before the depriving of the bishops , i eliz. yet i see no ground for my lord coke 's assertion , which the defendant takes for granted , p. . that this commission was first granted for depriving the popish bishops , and that about twenty were deprived by it ; whereas in fact , there were but fourteen deprived , and that for not doing what they had done before in henry the th's time , viz. for refusing to take the oath of supremacy , which they had all taken in the time of h. . and as far as i can learn , they were not deprived by the high commission , but by a particular commission for that purpose ; as appears by the best account we have of it in the historians who lived nearest the time . in the month of july , says stow , the old bishops of england , then living , were called and examined by certain of the queens majesties council , where the bishops of york , ely and london , with others , to the number of thirteen or fourteen for refusing to take the oath touching the queens supremacy and other articles , were deprived from their bishopricks . what he means by the other articles , i know not ; for there seem to be no other at that time , for which they could be deprived by law , but refusing the oath of supremacy ( and so much saunders himself owns ) for the other faults were not punishable with deprivation . the bishops being deprived by a special commission of the council , then saith stow , commissioners were appointed for all england ; for london sir richard sackvile , dr. horn , dr. huick and mr. savage , who called before them divers persons of every parish , and swore them to enquire and present upon certain injunctions . with him hollingshead agrees , only adding that these commissioners were sent according to an act passed and confirmed last parliament . this was the act for the high-commission , which then extended to particular parishes , with such such powers of the common law as are already mentioned , but are not of the essence of the commission according to the act of parliament , and therefore the taking away those additional powers doth not destroy the high commission ; but the repealing the act of parliament , on which it was built , takes away any such court-proceeding by ecclesiastical censures . to make this more plain by a parallel instance ; the court of star-chamber was taken away at the same time the high-commission was , and both determined the same day , car. . aug. . this court was erected for extraordinary civil jurisdiction , as the high commission was for spiritual ; but by the act , car. . c. . it was taken away much in the same manner with the court of high-commission : for there is a recital of the statutes on which it was grounded , hen. . c. . hen. . c. . and then it is alledged , that they had exceeded the bounds which the law had given them , in these words ; but the said judges have not kept themselves to the points limited by the said statute , but have undertaken to punish where no law doth warrant , and to make decrees for things having no such authority , and to inflict heavier punishments , than by any law is warranted . and so , by this very same way of reasoning which the vindicator uses , another court of star-chamber may be set up , if it keeps it self within the bounds of the statutes . but we are not to judge of the force of a law by the particular reason assigned , but by the enacting clause : be it ordained and enacted by the authority of this present parliament , that the said court , commonly called the star-chamber , , and all jurisdictions , power and authority belonging unto , or exercised in the same court , &c. be from the first of august . clearly and absolutely dissolved , taken away and determined . if another star-chamber cannot be set up with some limitations for extraordinary civil jurisdictions , how can another ecclesiastical court for extraordinary spiritual jurisdiction , which is taken away after the same manner ? only the act against the high commission , is more express in the conclusion , against setting up any other court with like power , jurisdiction or authority ; for it was then foreseen , that some other court might be set up , with some alterations ; and to prevent any thing of that nature , the last clause was annexed . . the prohibiting clause , car. . c. . is very considerable to the purpose . for the force of the former act was taken away by the repealing clause ; but that was not thought sufficient to prevent another court rising up , which might be like to it . a court may be like , although not altogether the same : it may be like in jurisdiction , although not in a power to fine and imprison . but the act saith , that no new court shall be erected which shall or may have the like power , jurisdiction , or authority , as the said high-commission now hath , or pretendeth to have ; but that all and every such letters patents made or to be made by his majesty or successors , and all powers and authorities granted , or pretended , or mentioned to be granted thereby , ana all asts , sentences and decrees to be made by vertue or colour thereof , shall be utterly void and of none effect . was all this meant only of such a court as should proceed to fine and imprison ? why was not this set down in as plain a manner as such a law required ? but we are to observe , . it not only voids the letters patents , but declares the constitution of the court it self to be illegal ; but that doth not depend upon the power to fine and imprison . if it had been said , no new court shall be erected with a power to fine and imprison , the matter had been clear ; for a new court might have been erected proceeding by ecclesiastical censures , without a power to fine and imprison . but the act takes no notice here of any such power , but absolutely forbids any court with the like power , jurisdiction or authority . had the high-commission no power , jurisdiction or authority , but only to fine and imprison ? their power and authority by act of parliament was general , to reform abuses , &c. in case there had been no such clause as fining and imprisoning in the letters patents , had there been no court , no power , jurisdiction or authority belonging to it ? if then there be a power , jurisdiction or authority of a high commission court , without a power to fine and imprison , then all such power and authority is taken away by the prohibiting clause . . it forbids the jurisdiction of such a court : but jurisdiction is quite another thing from a power to fine and imprison . jurisdictio , saith bracton , is authoritas judicandi , sive juris dicendi inter partes ; and to the same purpose fleta : they both distinguish two kinds of jurisdiction , ecclesiastical and civil . ecclesiastical , saith bracton , is that which belongs to ecclesiastical causes : which shews , that they looked on ecclesiastical proceedings by censures as part of the ecclesiastical jurisdiction . the first general exception , saith fleta , is against the jurisdiction of a court , which is allowed to be made to those quibus deficit autoritas judicandi . from hence it appears , that the power and authority of medling in ecclesiastical causes , is that which is implied in the jurisdiction of the court ; if it hath no jurisdiction it is no court ; if it have jurisdiction , it is void in law ; for the act of parliament takes away all power , jurisdiction and authority from any such court. . the explanatory act car. . c. . makes this more evident ; for there being a clause inserted car. . c. . which seemed to take away the ordinary jurisdiction of the ecclesiastical courts , it was thought fit to make that act on purpose to clear that matter , by repealing that clause . but that clause being part of the act which took away the high-commission court , lest by such a repeal the act it self should be thought repealed , therefore there is only an exception put in , not barely as to the old high-commission , but as to the new erecting some such like court by commission : and a particular proviso is added , that neither this act , nor any thing herein contained shall extend or be construed to revive or give force to the said branch of the said statute , made in the said first year of the reign of the said late queen elizabeth , mentioned in the said act of parliament , made in the seventeenth year of the reign of the said king charles ; but that the said branch of the said statute made in the said first year of the reign of the said late queen elizabeth , shall stand and be repealed in such sort , as if this act had never been made . now it ought to be considered , that even this parliament doth not fix upon the power to fine and imprison , to take that away ; but upon the original clause in the act , which gave power to erect such a court. and this parliament was zealous to assert the ordinary jurisdiction , and as zealous to prevent any such extraordinary jurisdictions , as was in the high-commission ; which it shewed by continuing the repeal of that power by which it was established . chap. ii. the king's supremacy by common-law enquired into ; coke 's fifth report , de jure regis ecclesiastico , examined . but against this it is pleaded with some appearance of reason , that in caudry 's case the judges resolved , that the act of the first year of the late queen was not introductory of a new law , but declaratory of the old ; and that the king by the ancient law might make such an ecclesiastical commission . and since the act car. . c. . saith , that we are not to abridg or diminish the king's supremacy in ecclesiastical matters and affairs ; therefore we are still to suppose , that the king hath a power by law to appoint such a commission for ecclesiastical matters . this is the substance of what is pleaded for the legality of the court : and since the argument is confined to matter of law , to clear this matter , it will be necessary to give an account of these two things , i. what the ancient law was as to this matter . ii. how far the legal supremacy is abridged by these statutes . i. as to the ancient law in this matter , it 's true that the lord coke , in caudry's case hath endeavoured to prove , that the statute eliz. was not introductory of a new law , but declaratory of the old ; but the instances he produces fall very short of being demonstrative proofs , as he calls them : for the true case is not , ( . ) whether the king ought not to interpose in ecclesiastical matters , so far as the peace and good government of his realm was concerned . nor , ( . ) whether he might not order things which concerned the right of ecclesiastical possessions ; as in bishopricks , commendams , right of patronage , pleas of tiths , &c. nor , ( . ) whether the king , by his supreme authority might not limit the proceedings of ordinary ecclesiastical courts in matters concerning his crown and dignity , by granting prohibitions . nor , ( . ) whether the king by common law cannot grant a commission of review , after the proceedings of the ecclesiastical courts ; which judge hutton affirmed , was all that was determined in caudry 's case . nor , ( . ) whether the king in parliament may not make law ; for reformation of religion and establishing good order therein . nor , ( . ) whether the supreme coactive jurisdiction were not always a right of the crown , however it were in a great measure usurped by the pope after king john 's resignation . but , whether our ancient law doth give the king a power , by virtue of his ecclesiastical jurisdiction , to appoint commissioners by an extraordinary way of jurisdiction to proceed in prima instantia , against persons by ecclesiastical censures ? and to prove this i cannot find one sufficient example , as i shall make appear by a short account of the instances he produces , and the ecclesiastical jurisdiction exercised at that time . in the time of the saxons . in the saxon times he brings first an instance of kenulphus , king of mercia , granting an exemption to the abbot of abingdon : but what does this signifie to ecclesiastical jurisdiction , to prove , that the king gave the abbot an exemption from the temporal jurisdiction of the bishops ? for , in those days there were great disputes between the bishops and abbots about the temporal jurisdiction over the lands of their abbies ; which the bishops claimed , and the abbots refused , and put themselves under the protection of princes and great men , as appears by the councils of cloveshoo and becanceld , in the time of kenulphus . but stamford puts this matter out of dispute in the confirmation of the charter of kenulphus , by edwin , for the words are , quod praefatum monastrium omnis terrenae servitatis esset liberum : and what is this now to ecclesiastical jurisdiction ? but we have manifest proof in the saxon times , that the ecclesiastical jurisdiction was never exercised by such a commission , but that all extraordinary cases were dispatched in parliamentary assemblies , and the ordinary jurisdiction was exercised by the archbishop of canterbury , in chief , and by the rest of the bishops . the first extraordinary instance of proceeding against an ecclesiastical person , in the saxon times , was that of wilfred archbishop of york , who because he would not consent to the making three bishopricks in his province , was deposed by theodore archbishop of canterbury , the king himself being present , and the great council of the nation : for so king alfrith saith , that he was bis à toto anglorum concilio damnatus , as the words are in malmsbury ; and eddius , who lived at that time , saith , that king alfrith gave this reason against restoring him , because he had been condemned by the kings his predecessors , with their council , the archbishop assisting , and himself had judged him , cum omnibus pene britanniae vestrae praesulibus , all the bishops , almost , being present . in the council of nester field , in his case , it is said , the king was present and berthwaldus , archbishop of canterbury , cum totius pene britanniae episcopis . in the council at nid , it is said , sedentibus rege & episcopis , cum principibus eorum in loco synodali ; which was a parliamentary assembly . not long after tunbert was deposed from his bishoprick , but it was , saith florentius wigorniensis , congregata synodo sub praesentia regis egfridi . the archbishop theodore likewise deposed winfred bishop of the mercians , saith the same author , after bede , for some disobedience , and consecrated saxulphus , the first abbot of peterborough , in his place . this winfred had been present at the council at herudford , and there consented to the canons then first received in the english church ; and there they submitted to ecclesiastical censures , upon the violation of them . at this council , saith matt. westminster , were present not only all the bishops , but all the kings and great men of the nation ; so that the first canons were received in a full parliament . one of these canons was for increasing the number of bishopricks , as the number of believers increased : and upon this canon theodore proceeded against both wilfred and winfred : for not long after theodore divided his bishoprick into five ; but it was done , saith florentius , consensu ejusdem regis & principum illius , as ina divided the western province into two bishopricks , synodali decreto , saith mat. westminster , which then was the same , as by act of parliament . and the opposing such a division seems to have been the crime of disobedience , for which he was deprived by the archbishop : for as bede observes of him , he first exercised ecclesiastical jurisdiction over all england . in the great council at be●anceld , where king withred was present , a. d. . with his nobles ( ducibus & satrapis in unum glomeratis ) together with the clergy : he there disowrs any ecclesiastical jurisdiction , and leaves it to the archbishop of canterbury ; metropolitani episcopi est ecclesias dei regere , gubernare , &c. and then follows , presbyteros , diaconos eligere , statuere , sanctificare , firmare & amovere . and he makes this an inviolable law , as far as his words could make it , si quis autem rex post nos levatus in regnum , aut episcopus , aut abbas vel comes , vel ulla potestas hominum contradicat huic chartuae , aut infringere tentaverit , sciat se sequestratum à corpore & sanguine domini , &c. and after it follows , haec lex inviolabilis usque ad consummationem saeculi permaneat , &c. mr. prynn , out of his old kindness to the archbishops of canterbury , in his vast heap of collections , would have this rejected as spurious ; but sir h. spelman , whose judgment was far beyond the others , saith , he had perused five mss. of i● , whereof one was with a mixture of saxon letters , and he had ●o mistrust of its sincerity . and the learned and judicious editors of the decem scriptores , sir roger twisden and mr. selden have thought fit to insert it after them , out of a ms. in ccc . but mr. p. thinks , it is contradicted by the council of berghamstead , about ecclesiastical affairs , under king withred : but i can find nothing like it . it is true , there are laws made concerning ecclesiastical matters , by common consent of the king , the nobles and bishops ; but the very first is ecclesia libera sit fruaturque suis judiciis , &c. but besides , in the great council at clovesho , where aethelbaldus , king of mercia , was present , and cutbert , arch-bishop of canterbury , with the other bishops , this charter of withred's , was read , and approved , and consirmed ; with the like sanction annexed to it . in the council at clovesho , a. c. . the extent of the jurisdiction of the archbishop of canterbury was very much lessened by the means of king offa , who caused another archbishoprick to be set up in mercia , and the archbishop of canterbury gave his consent , saith matt. paris : but his former jurisdiction was restored in the council of clovesho , a. d. . by a general consent . but in the former council the ecclesiastical jurisdiction was strenuously asserted , in these words ; sicut reges omnibus dignitatibus praesunt , ita & episcopi in his quae ad deum attinent . and in the latter , there is a severe denunciation against all that should lessen the honour , or take away the jurisdiction of that see. from henceforward i find no diminution of the archbishop's ordinary jurisdiction through the saxon times . the king had the political supremacy in him , by which he erected and divided bishopricks , and nominated bishops , and summoned councils , and confirmed their proceedings as he saw cause ; but the immediate ecclesiastical jurisdiction was left to the archbishop of canterbury in the first place , and to the rest of the bishops as to any publick acts which related to ecclesiastical affairs , they were not dispatched by particular commissions , but in the parliamentary assemblies ; in which , the custom was , to begin with what related to the church , and then to proceed to other business . of this ingulphus gives us an instance in ceolnothus archbishop of canterbury ; for in the parliament assembled at kingsbury , a. c. . in hebdomada pasch. ( which was chiefly assembled pro regni negotiis ) yet even then , he proposed , that church affairs might be first dispatched ; divina negotia debere primitus proponi ; to which they all assented . and so bertulphus his charter of crowland then passed ; as withlasius his did before , at a time when the bishops and nobles attended the king at london , to consult about the danish pyrates , which very much infested our coasts . thus aethelwolfus passed his famous grant of the tenth of all the lands to the church , in a council at winchester ; himself , and the king● of mercia and east-angles , being present , and all the nobility and bishops giving their free consent ; as ingulphus relates it . several others might be produced ; but these are sufficient . and the saxon laws are a plain evidence , that church-matters were in those times determined in the same assemblies , wherein the other laws of the kingdom were passed . in the reign of king edward the confessor . the next instance is of edward the confessor , who saith in his laws , that he is vicar of the highest king , and he is ordained to this end , that he should govern and rule the people of the land , and above all things , the holy church , and that he defend the same from wrong-doers , and root out workers of mischief . f. parsons saith , all this was by commission from the pope , such as the kings of sicily had . but in my opinion , this is a very bad answer : for it supposes persons otherwise uncapable , to be made capable of the same jurisdiction , which follows orders ; provided they have a delegation from the pope : which is in effect , to confound all ecclesiastical jurisdiction in any , but the pope himself , and those to whom he commits it . but those who assert the right of jurisdiction to follow the power of order , must first suppose a person duly qualified , before he can receive from the pope himself the power of ecclesiastical jurisdiction . if therefore a prince hath not an inherent right to it , he cannot receive it by commission from the pope . and the powers which the king of sicily challenges , relating to ecclesiastical jurisdiction , are either such as other princes have an equal right to ; or else they must imply such proper eclesiastical jurisdiction as follows the power of order ; and then , how can the pope give the one without the other ? such a gift is like an appropriation of a benefice with a cure to a nunnery , which the lord hobart saith is void in law , by reason of the incapacity of the persons . but the supremacy which our law gives , is not any proper immediate spiritual jurisdiction , like that of bishops , but an authoritative and legislative supremacy without any foreign appeals , as will appear afterwards . but the rights which the kings of sicily challenge , are these . . that they have the same powers which legates a latere have , and may judge of the same causes , and proceed in the same manner with ecclesiastical censures . . that no appeal lies from the king's commissioner , even to rome it self ; and it is common to appeal from the censure of the bishop to him . the former is a power , which our kings never pretended to , by vertue of their supremacy ; for it is a delegation of the power of the keys ; which the legates à latere exercise by vertue of their function , as well as their commission : but the legal supremacy with us , is a right to govern all sorts of men by our own laws , without any foreign jurisdiction , and that with respect to ecclesiastical matters as well as temporal . but to prevent mistakes and cavils about this matter , it will be necessary to clear the notion of supremacy ; as it hath been owned and received in the church of england . and for this we have two authentic declarations of it to rely upon . the first is mentioned , eliz. c. . § . . where the supremacy is declared to be taken and expounded in such form as is set forth in the admonition annexed to the queens injunctions published in the first year of her reign . and the words there are , that the queen neither doth nor will challenge any authority , but such as was of ancient time due to the imperial crown of this realm , that is , under god to have the sovereignty and rule over all manner of persons , born within these her realms , dominions and countries , of what estates , either ecclesiastical or temporal soever they be , so as no other foreign power shall or ought to have any superiority over them . the second is in the th article , wherein it is declared , that by the supremacy is meant , that only prerogative which we see to have been always given to all godly princes in holy scriptures by god himself , that is , that they should rule all estates and degrees committed to their charge by god , whether they be ecclesiastical or temporal , and restrain with the civil sword , the stubborn and evil doers . so that granting a commission for proceeding by ecclesiastical censures , is no part of that supremacy which our church owns . and thus the divines of our church have understood it . by the supremacy , saith bishop andrews , we do not attribute to the king the power of the keys , or ecclesiastical censures . r. thompson , in his desence against becanus , saith , the supremacy is not to be defined by ecclesiastical jurisdiction , but by supream government . becanus urged this as an argument against the kings supremacy , that he had no ecclesiastical jurisdiction . dr. burrhil answered , that the supremacy implied many other things ; as , the power of calling convocations , of confirming canons , of giving commissions of delegates , of taking cognizance of the misdemeanors of church-men ( as well as others ; ) but for proper ecclesiastical jurisdiction , he denies it to belong to supremacy . and after , asserts , that the king's supremacy is preserved , if he takes care that those who have the power of ecclesiastical censures , do exercise them ; and not as though it belonged to the supremacy to give an immediate power to proceed by ecclesiastical censures ; which was not supposed to belong to it , but a supreme right of governing all sorts of persons by our laws . the king's supremacy in ecclesiastical matters , doth not , saith , mason , imply the power of the keys , which the king hath not ; but he may command those who have them , to use them rightly . all these wrote in king james i. his reign , when the point of supremacy was throughly sifted on both sides . and the king himself , who very well understood these matters , saith , that the oath of supremacy only extended to the king's power of judicature , over all persons as well civil as ecclesiastical ; excluding all foreign powers and potentates to be judges within his dominions . not as though the king hereby challenged to himself a power of inflicting ecclesiastical censures on persons ; but leaving the spiritual jurisdiction to those who have the power of the keys , it belonged to him to exercise his supreme authority over ecclesiastical persons and causes , as he did over temporal . for , saith archbishop bramhal , our laws never invested the king with any spiritual power or jurisdiction , witness the injunctions of q. eliz. witness the publick articles of our church ; witness the professions of king james ; witness all our statutes themselves . the king of england , saith he , by the fundamental constitution of the monarchy , hath plenary power , without the licence or help , or concurrence of any foreign prelate or potentate , to render final justice , that is , to receive the last appeals of his own subjects , without any fear of any review from rome , or at rome , for all matters ecclesiastical and temporal ; ecclesiastical by his bishops , temporal by his judges . and thus our laws were in the right , when they called the act of supremacy , restoring the rights of the crown ; for if we take away all the papal usurpations as to appeals , exemptions of persons , dispensations , provisions , making canons , sending legates to hold courts , to call convocations , &c. we may easily understand what the supremacy is , viz. a power of governing all sorts of men , according to the laws ecclesiastical and temporal , without any foreign jurisdiction . but as in temporal matters the king 's supreme authority is exercised in his ordinary courts . so likewise in ecclesiastical : which deriving their jurisdiction from the king as supreme , his supremacy is preserved in the ordinary ecclesiastical courts ; but as to extraordinary jurisdiction that deper ds on the legislative power ; and whether that be not now taken away by it , is the thing in question . having endeavoured to set this matter in as clear a light as i could , i now return to the instance of edward the confessor . and those words of his , as they are in hoveden , signifie no more than a general right of protecting and defending the church , which is not denied to belong to kings , where the pope's authority is the most owned . i cannot but take notice of a different reading in the lord cokes copy , from all that i have seen ; for where he hath it , sanctam ecclesiam regat & defendat ; lambard , veneretur & reg●t ; but hoveden , revereatur & ab injuriatoribus defendat : which is that right of protection which is allowed by all . the spanish lawyers hold , that there lies an appeal to the kings courts , by his right of protection , in case of any violent proceedings in the ecclesiastical courts . which violences are so many , as make such appeals so frequent and necessary , that whole volumes have been written about them . and this they say , is not introductory of a new law , but only declaratory of a natural right . the french lawyers allow appeals from the ecclesiastical courts , tanquam ab abusu ; which must be founded on an original right in the king , to defend the church both from injuries and abuses . and as to the church it self , it is fully expressed in the writ de excommunicato capiendo , in these words , quia vero potestas regia sacrosanctae ecclesiae in querelis suis deesse non debet . but such a right of protection and assistance is different from that of jurisdiction ; unless it be that which is only coactive ; which is not the jurisdiction we now enquire into . but it is most considerable that king edward saith , he is god's vicar , and therefore could not look on himself as acting by commission from the pope . it is true , that in the third charter of westminster there is a bull of nicholas the second , wherein he gives to the king and his successors the protection and defence of that place , and of all the churches of england , and a power , in his stead to make good laws , with the advice of the bishops and abbots : but i do not find that king edward owned that he acted in these matters by any commission from the pope , but from god himself : and this law , in hoveden and others overthrows any such pretended commission ; and yet the pope himself doth not give him a power to delegate his authority to others , but to act in it himself , and that only with the advice of bishops and abbots . the point then which was to be proved , was not that the king had a right to protect the church from injuries ; but such an inherent right of ecclesiastical jurisdiction , which he might delegate to others , whether bishops or not , and impower them to proceed by ecclesiastical censures against offenders , summoned to appear before them . and the question now is not , whether by the supreme legislative power of the nation such an authority might not in an extraordinary case be committed to particular persons by act of parliament ; but whether such an act of parliament being granted to be taken away , the king by the ancient law of the realm may appoint such commissioners , as he thinks fit , laymen or bishops , to proceed against the king's subjects by ecclesiastical censures ? and this very stating of the case , as it ought to be , shews how impertinent the remainder of his examples are . but to proceed . in the reign of king william the first . in the time of william the conqueror , he only mentions a case out of fitz-herbert , that he made an appropriation of churches with cure to ecclesiastical persons , viz. to a prebend of the church of york ; now this , saith he , was agreed by all could not be done without ecclesiastical jurisdiction . it is too common a fault in some great lawyers , that what they find once setled for law in their books , they imagine was never otherwise . thus appropriations after diocesses were setled , being looked on , as chiefly the act of the ordinary , who is to take care of the whole diocess ; from hence they infer , that in all times an appropriation must argue ecclesiastical jurisdiction . but before the parochial rights were established , there were many volantary appropriations made by particular persons , who thought there was no more ecclesiastical jurisdiction in the appropriation of churches , than in the endowments of them , and in the right of patronage ; only the one is setled on a spiritual corporation , as perpetual incumbent ; and the other on particular persons in succession . it s true , since the acts for restoring jurisdiction to the crown , the power of making appropriations in the king , is said to be from his supreme ecclesiastical authority , grindon's case , in pl. f. . but then we are told , it was because the pope , as supreme ordinary , had such a power without the bishops ; which reason will not hold as to such times when the pope was not owned to be supreme ordinary , as he was not in the conqueror's time , the canon-law not being then received in england . but what a mean proof is this in such a busie time as that of william the frst , when so many great churchmen were deprived of their bishopricks , being english , and the normans put in their places ? was this done by any commission from william to his great lords and others , to proceed against them by ecclesiastical censures ? nothing like it . stigand , archbishop of canterbury , ( if spot's story be true ) was too great a friend to the english liberties to be endured by him : but he was too great a dissembler to seem to have any thing to do in it himself ; and therefore knowing he was of the opposite party to the prevailing pope , he privatly sends to him , to send a legate for that purpose ( wherein the pope and he had their several ends ) ; and then in parliament time , the king keeping his easter at winchester , stigand was deposed , and agilmarus , bishop of the east angles , and several others , without any evident reason , saith hoveden , but only to make way for the normans : this was in concilio magno , saith he and the rest , for easter was one of the three seasons , for the parliamentary meeting , in the year ; which william kept up , in imitation of the saxons , who at christmas , easter and pentecost held their publick courts , and did wear their crowns till the times of h. . and then they did dispatch publick affairs : thus far he complied with the saxon customs ; but he had a new work to do : the archbishop he could not rely upon , and therefore was put to find out a new way , by sending for a legate from the pope to serve his turn . and thus william , for his own ends , having so hard a game to play here , called in the pope's assistance ; who knew well enough how to draw his own advantage out of it . but william would go no further than his interest carried him ; for afterwards he declared , that he would maintain his own rights , which he enjoyed in normandy , viz. that nothing should be done without him in convocation ; no legate come but as he pleased , &c. but still he seemed to let them enjoy their saxon liberties in matters of ecclesiastical proceedings , so far as to have them debated in parliament . thus the controversie between the two archbishops was referred to parliament , the king and the great men , as well as the bishops being present . the controversie between lanfrank , archbishop of canterbury and odo , bishop of baieux was referred , saith eadmerus , to a conventus principum at pinnedenen ; and when the king heard their resolution , cum consensu omnium principum suorum confirmavit , saith the textus roffensis . he likewise confirmed charters as the saxons had done ; that to battel abby was consilio episcoporum & baronum meorum . but the most considerable thing he did , as to ecclesiastical jurisdiction , was separating the courts ecclesiastical from the hundred courts , by his charter to remigius and others ; which , he saith , was granted in a great council , and by the advice of the archbishops , bishops and all the great men of his kingdom : so that still extraordinary acts relating to church matters were passed in parliament by general consent . and what now doth the appropriation of a church with a cure of souls signifie to prove his ecclesiastical jurisdiction ? when those things in his time were not brought under such strict rules as they were afterwards ; but appropriation might have been made by any lay person , that never pretended to the least ecclesiastical jurisdiction ; and he might as well have brought his demolishing so many churches in the new forest , for an instance of his ecclesiastical jurisdiction . in the reign of william the second . in william rufus his time , a great heat arose between him and anselm archbishop of canterbury , about owning the pope , whether the archbishop could do it without the king's consent ? the business was referred to parliament , which the king called on purpose at rockingham , saith eadmerus , who was there present ; the bishops declared they could not deprive him ( as the king would have had them ) to whom they had promised obedience . after which it was again referred to parliament ; but anselm not yielding , he went out of the land. in the reign of king henry the first . in the reign of henry the first a new controversie arose between the king and the same archbishop , about the ancient right of the crown as to investiture of bishops ; the king calls a parliament about it , wherein the bishops and lords joyned with the king ; afterwards anselm desired , the advice of the bishops and nobles might be heard at easter ; which shews that both sides referred it to the parliament . in his time a council was called , and several canons passed , and the archbishop desired of the king , that the primates regni might sit with them ; that all things might pass utriusque ordinis concordi cura , with the consent of both estates . the king afterwards takes the advantage of these canons , and prosecutes the breakers of them , and raises money upon pretence of forfeitures , to the great grievance of the clergy . anselm although then in disfavour , writes to the king about it ; and tells him , this was a new method of proceeding , because it belonged to the bishops in their diocesses to call the clergy to an account ; or if they neglected , to the archbishop and primate . the king answers , that his barons were to meet him on ascension-day , and by their advice he would give an answer ; but upon anselms return this prosecution ceased . other affairs of the church were then referred to the parliament at easter , from thence to pentecost , and by reason of anselm's sickness to august ; and then the bishops , abbots and lords of the kingdom , met in the king's palace at london , and by consent of parliament , investiture was turned into homage . in his time the bishoprick of ely was erected by the king's consent in parliament , regi , archiepiscopo , caeterisque principibus regni visum fuit , saith eadmerus . the consecration of an elect archbishop of york , was transacted in parliament , the king advising with the bishops and nobles about it ; for anselm , before his death had sent an inhibition to the bishops , not to consecrate him unless he made the profession of obedience to the archbishop of canterbury : the bishops resolved to adhere to anselm's inhibition , and the king yielded . after anselm's death , the king advised with his parliament , at windsor , about a successor to him ; and the bishop of rochester , at the request of the bishops , was agreed upon : and the king filled the abbies before he went into normandy , consisto principum & episcoporum suorum . in the latter end of henry the first many disputes hapned about ecclesiastical jurisdiction , as between the bishops of s. davids and glamorgan which were debated in magno placito apud london , saith henry of huntingdon : and for such causes , saith he , another assembly was held in the beginning of lent , and again in rogation week . in all this time , when the norman kings asserted all the rights of sovereignty with great zeal , yet they never pretended to appoint any commissioners for ecclesiastical causes , but still referred them to parliaments . in the reign of king henry the third . the next instance the lord coke brings , falls as low as the time of henry the third . the first whereof is , the king 's granting a writ of prohibition , if any man sued in the ecclesiastical court for any thing of which by allowance and custom , it had not lawful cognizance . but how doth the king's power of granting prohibitions , prove his ecclesiastical jurisdiction ? it effectually proves the king 's right to preserve his crown and dignity , as the prohibition implies ; but how doth it hence appear that the ecclesiastical jurisdiction comes from his crown and dignity ? the contrary seems rather to follow , viz. that the ecclesiastical courts were held from another power ; but all matters of temporal cognizance did belong to the crown . there is no question but since the acts for restoring jurisdiction to the crown , the supream jurisdsction both in the ecclesiastical and civil courts , is derived from the crown . and in whose-soever names the courts are kept , the authority of keeping them is from the king. for it is declared by act of parliament , eliz. . . that all ecclesiastical power is united and annexed to the imperial crown of this realm ; which all bishops do own , in taking the oath of supremacy ; and therefore the old form continuing , can signifie nothing against the law of this realm and their own oaths . but as long as the main points were secured by the laws , there was no necessity apprehended of altering the forms ; for , on the other side , it was objected , that since the laws had placed all jurisdiction in the crown , it seemed as unreasonable to continue the old form of prohibitions in laesionem coronae & dignitatis regiae ; how can this be , say they , when the jurisdiction ecclesiastical as well as civil , is owned to be from the crown ? it is said in answer , that , a prohibition implies that the thing is drawn into aliud examen than it ought to be , and this is contra coronam & dignitatem regiam . why not then as well when an ecclesiastical original cause , is brought into a temporal court ? for that is aliud examen then , by confession on that side ; and if ecclesiastical jurisdiction be derived from the crown , the aliud examen must relate only to the court , and not to the crown . all that i infer from hence is , that the old forms were thought fit to be continued ; & both parties reconciled them as well as they could to the laws in force . but the judges confessed , that although de jure both the jurisdictions were ever in the crown , yet the one was sometimes usurped by the see of rome , which is a plain acknowledgment , that by the matters of fact in those times , the right could not be proved ; and especially in the times of h. . when the popes usurpations here , were at so great a height , that the king upon writs of enquiry sent into the several counties , found , that the revenues of the roman court , by provisions , extortions , &c. exceeded the kings . and the king had so little authority left , that the pope put bishops upon him rege penitus irrequisito , saith matt. westm. so that he was so far from ecclesiastical jurisdiction , that he had not the nomination of his bishops , nor so much as a consent to their election , unless the pope thought fit sometimes to gratifie him in it . for the pope pretended to the right of disposal of church preferments , by vertue of his ordinary jurisdiction , which was said to be twofold . . voluntary , in the collation of benefices . . judicial , in the hearing of causes ; the former might be done at rome , but the other in the ordinary ecclesiastical courts . and bracton , who was a judge in his time , owns the pope as much to have the ecclesiastical jurisdiction , as the king had the temporal ; but yet he adds , that , if an ecclesiastical judge did meddle with matters out of their cognizance , the king's prohibition did lye against him , and he ought to supersede his proceedings till it were tryed in the king's court , to whom the jurisdiction belonged . but it is still harder to prove the king's ecclesiastical jurisdiction , because the spiritual courts were to certifie the kings courts , in case of bigamy , bastardy , and such like . for the question is not about their temporal subjection to the king in signifying the sentence of the court , but whence they derived their authority of holding the ecclesi astical courts ; over which , bracton saith the pope had the ordinary jurisdiction , & the power to delegate others to execute it . what doth it signifie to the kings ecclesiastical jurisdiction , that the barons of england would not receive that part of the canon law which concerned the legitimation of children born before wedlock ? for it depended upon the barons consent , whether a canon of the church should be made the law of the land concerning the rights of inheritance . in the reign of king edward i. in the time of ed. i. we may expect some brisker sallies towards the kingdoms deliverance from the popes usurpations , which were thought so intolerable even by the monkish historians , in his fathers reign . what that bull was , the bringing whereof the law-books say , was then adjudged treason , it would have been worth our while to have known . for it is hard to imagine that at that time , the meer bringing a bull , should be so capital a crime , when so many were brought without danger both before and after . but it seems by the certificate of the judges concerning it ( still in the tower ) the matter of it was very prejudicial to the crown . and it argues no spiritual jurisdiction for princes to examine and refuse ( when they see cause ) bulls that come from rome . for this is practised in those countries which profess obedience to the popes jurisdiction . covarruvias affirms it of spain . in portugal , when john the second would have given up that right to the pope , the estates of the kingdom would not permit him . peter the second , duke of britain forbad receiving any bull before examination by his council , under pain of corporal punishments and confiscation of goods . ant. faber saith , in savoy , no bulls have authority there , till they are approved by the senate , and an appeal lies from them tanquam ab abusu . even in naples it self , ferdinand the catholick king , gave a severe reprimand to his vice-roy , for not hanging up a person who would have executed a bull without his authority . the letter it self is published in the jus belgarum ; where many other things may be seen to the same purpose . the right of patronage is a civil right in princes as well as others ; and therefore e. . without pretending to ecclesiastical jurisdiction , might justly punish the archbishop of york for his obstinate refusing to admit the kings clerk because of a papal provision . the statute of bigamy might very well be interpreted in parliament , and yet the king have no ecclesiastical jurisdiction . for it was no more than declaring in what sense a law should be taken , i. e. whether it should extend to bigamy before the constitution of the council of lyons , or after . the act of parliament made at carlisle , e. . against aliens possessing benefices , is no more than hath been done in countries where the popes jurisdiction is the most owned . as in spain , covarruvias saith , they have prescription and pragmatical sanctions against aliens possessing benefices . the laws of poland , and many edicts in france exclude strangers . but i shall now produce some considerable precedents in the time of ed. . to shew that the proceedings against the arch-bishops and bishops for misdemeanors or contempts , was in parliament , and not by commissioners ( the inferior clergy being left to the jurisdiction of their ordinaries . ) ed. . e. warren complained to the king , that the archbishop of canterbury had contemned his orders in not taking off excommunication from some of his servants : the king sends to him to proceed no further against the earl or his servants usque ad parliamentum , where the matter of contempt might be debated . but in the mean time the archbishop sends to the king a true account of the matter , and how far he was from contempt ; which is still extant in the records of the tower. e. . john peckam , archbishop of canterbury , was summoned to parliament , to answer to a charge of misdemeanors against him , for some passages in the council at reading ; which he was fain to revoke , and to declare that no articles there passed , should create any prejudice to the crown or kingdom . e. . the archbishop went about to visit the kings free chappels : the king hearing of it , sent a writ to him , to forbear usque ad proximum parliamentum ; ut tunc ex unamini & mutuo consensu provideamus quid fieri debeat in praemissis . e. . john roman , archbishop of york , was attached upon a contempt for excommunicating the bishop of durham , while he was in the king's service . and after a full hearing in pleno parliamento , he was condemned , and upon submission , was fined to the king sour thousand marks . e. . a controversie arose between the king and the bishop of chichester , about his refusing to admit a person presented to a prebend in the free chappel of hastings ; the king sends his writ to the warden of cinque-ports ( extant in the tower among the writs of that time ) to enquire into this matter , and to bring an account next parliament , ad quod praedictum episcopum adjornavimus , are the words of the writ : and that the business was heard in parliament , appears by the records . e . the king seized on the temporalities of the bishop of durham , upon a judgment given against him in parliament , for extending his spiritual jurisdiction too far ; as appears by the record of the concord made between the king and him . in the reign of king edward the second . in the reign of k. e. . nothing is produced but the statute e. . for regulating the proceedings between the civil and ecclesiastical courts . but how the kings ecclesiastical jurisdiction is proved hereby , is hard to understand . it appears indeed that the ecclesiastical jurisdiction is allowed and limited by parliament . but from hence , saith he , it follows that these laws may be called the kings eccclesiastical laws , or the ecclesiastical laws of england . there is no question but they may : but there is a difference between laws , so called by acceptation and allowance ; and such as have their whole force and authority from the king. for otherwise , where the popes jurisdiction is owned and received , the pope must receive his authority from the king. but a liberty to exercise authority , and deriving authority are two things . in the reign of king edward the third . in the time of e. . many things are alledged , and to more purpose ; but yet a short answer will serve . if the first instance doth hold , viz. that the sentence of excommunication by the archbishop , holds against the sentence of the pope or his legate , it only proves that the eccesiastical jurisdiction here by law is in the archbishop , and not in the pope or his legate . but there may be another reason , mentioned by fitz herbert , viz. that the certificate of the archbishop might be more authentick than the seal of a legate . the second , sixth and eighth only prove the king supreme patron ; and a right of patronage is distinct from a right of ecclesiastical jurisdiction ; and so it was resolved in grendon's case , pl. f. . that the king presents by lapse , as supreme patron , and not as supreme ordinary ; for this belongs to him as king , the land on which churches are built being originally held of him : and this right the king enjoyed when the pope was owned to be supreme ordinary : but in the case of his own free chapels fitz-herbert saith right , that in case of lapse by the dean , the king presents as ordinary , the archbishop and bishop having no authority there as ordinaries . the third , fourth and fifth are about exemptions from episcopal jurisdictions granted by the king , especially in his own free chapels , which are only visitable by commission from the king. but this very pretence of exemptions from episcopal jurisdiction was founded upon the belief of the pope's being supreme ordinary ; for exempt places were not supposed to be free from all ordinary jurisdiction , but from that of inferior ordinaries , being immediately subject to the pope . a bishop , by the canon law , may grant an exemption from his right of jurisdiction , but not from his right of visitation , but the pope from both . and in the grant of exemption the immediate subjection to the roman see is expressed . as to the king 's free chapels , their exemption was by an express bull of innocent iii , to king john ; and in the case of the free chapels of s. martins , henry iii granted a prohibition , wherein it is inserted , that it was a free chapel , & ab omni jurisdictione episcopali per sedem apostolicam exempta . and hen. . in a prohibition concerning the free chapel of wolverhampton , the grant of innocent iii , is repeated . the right to extra-parochial tithes is provisional , and not by way of inheritance , and so it may belong to the king , although he have no ecclesiastical jurisdiction . as to the severe proceeding about bulls from rome , i have given an account of that already in e. . the anointing of kings proves no more their capacity of spiritual jurisdiction , than it proves the kings of israel to have been high priests . there is no doubt the ecclesiastical courts may be limited by the laws of the land ; and there are some causes which belong to them not originally of a spiritual nature ; but they have been a long time possessed of them by custom , and are allowed by law ; which is well expressed in hen. . c. . where it is said , that all causes testamentary , causes of matrimony and divorces , rights of tithes , oblations and obventions ( the knowledge whereof , by the goodness of princes of this realm , and by the laws and customs of the same , appertaineth to the spiritual jurisdiction of this realm ) shall be determined within the kings jurisdiction and authority . it doth not seem probable , that the king by his own authority would remove secular canons , and put in regular ; when hoveden saith , in the same case , h. . did it by the pope's authority , and with the free consent of the parties . the statutes of provisors were excellent statutes ; but are said to be enacted for the good and tranquility of the realm , which no doubt the king and his parliament were bound to take care of . but they prove no more ecclesiastical jurisdiction than the pragmatick sanctions of lewis ix , and charles vii , in france did ; which were of the same nature . the following instances in other reigns , are many of them of the same kind with those already answered ; but what seems to have any new force shall be considered . in the reign of king henry the fourth . h. . c. . is urged to prove , that the king , by consent of his parliament , did direct the proceedings of the spiritual courts in cases of heresie and other matters more spiritual ; but it is evident by the act it self , that the spiritual jurisdiction was left wholly to the ordinaries , and only an inforcement of it by the civil power was added by the law then made , for the words are , whereas the diocesans of the said realm , cannot by their jurisdiction spiritual , without aid of the said royal majesty sufficiently correct , &c. therefore a power to imprison and fine was given to the ordinaries ; who might before have proceeded by ecclesiastical censures ; but these being contemned by them , the ordinaries called in the assistance of the civil power . if there had been a power before to have proceeded against hereticks by common law , when convict by their ordinaries , i cannot see any reason why that law should be made . in case of apostacy , i. e. renouncing christianity , bracton saith , the person convict is to be burned , and he instanceth in the deacon who turned jew , in the council of oxford : and fleta speaks only of apostates , whether clerks or others , and those are the miscreants in briton ; and in horn , heresie was then the same with renouncing baptism , or turning jew or turk , or using sorcery ; but after wickliff's time the ordinaries inlarged the notion of heresie , and took upon themselves to be sole judges in it ; and for all that i can see , the act h. . owns this to be part of their spiritual jurisdiction . and this is one reason alledged for the repeal of this act , h. . c. . because there is no declaration of heresie made in it , but it is left to the judgment of the ordinary : and therefore this act was ill thought upon , to prove the king 's ecclesiastical jurisdiction . in henry the seventh's time the king is said to be persona mixta , because he hath both ecclesiastical and temporal jurisdiction . but this argument is drawn only from some occasional talk , mentioned in the year books , hen. . . brian said , that a sage doctor of law said one time to him , that priests might be tried at common law , car il dit quod rex est persona mixta , car est persona unita cum sacerdotibus saint eglyse : if all this be granted , it proves no more than that the king hath jurisdiction by his law over ecclesiastical persons ; which is not disputed . chap. iii. whether the king's supremacy by law extends to the dispensing with laws : of the nature and original of the power ; the inconsistency of such a dispensing power with the frame of our government . having thus far proceeded in clearing the ancient legal supremacy , i am now come to an instance of greater weight and difficulty ; and which will therefore require more pains and care in the examination of it , viz. h. . . by the ecclesiastical laws allowed with in this realm , a priest cannot have two benefices , nor a bastard can be a priest ; but the king may by his ecclesiastical power and jurisdiction dispense with both these , because they be mala prohibita , and not mala per se. here we are to enquire into these things , ( . ) how far the king's power and jurisdiction did extend in the cases mentioned . ( . ) how far the reason here given will justifie a power of dispensing with laws . ( . ) as to the cases here mentioned ; there is no doubt but the canonists made the power of dispensing in these to be an argument of the pope's supremacy , or the plenitude of his power : but doth it hence follow , that what princes did to their own subjects , as to the qualifying them for a legal possession of benefices , must argue a supremacy in them over ecclesiastical persons and causes ? and there is a difference to be made between not receiving the pope's canons in particular cases ; and a power of dispensing with ecclesiastical laws . if the law were so then , as is noted by fineax , in h. . . the plain consequence is , that the contrary were no part of the ecclesiastical laws , allowed within this realm . as in the famous case about the canon law concerning bastardy , when the barons said , noluleges angliae mutari ; no man can say , that the barons dispensed with the pope's ecclesiastical laws ; but that they refused to execute them ; for , as it is well observed in standish's case , in kelway's reports , h. . ecclesiastical laws have no force , where the general practice hath been contrary . if this were no more than a private opinion of fineux , of what he thought the king might do , although there were no precedent for it , then it signifies little ; but if from hence it appears , what the common law of england was ; then it follows , that this was not received at that time for the ecclesiastical law of this kingdom . and so hobart , in colt and glover's case understands it , f. . for he produces this as an instance , that the crown always kept a possession of its natural power : and to this he adds a power of commendam or retaining a benefice with a bishoprick , h. . . this he calls a power of dispensation in spiritualibus : but with submission to two such great men in the law , if the crown always kept a possession of these rights , there could be no dispensation with the ecclesiastical law in these matters , but an exclusion of it . as for instance , the kings of france do challenge many priviledges to themselves in their kingdoms , in plain derogation to the canon law ; and for these priviledges they plead an ancient right of the crown , or an immemorial custom : as in the great controversic of late years , about the regale , the canon law is express , that upon pain of excommunication , no lay person what soever shall presume to meddle with the profits of vacant bishopricks ; which was decreed by two popes in several councils , urban ii , in a council at awergn , mxcv , and innocent ii , in . lateran council mc xxxix ; both entred in the body of the canon law : and yet the kings of france insist to this day on the rights of vacant sees , as belonging to them . but can this be pleaded as a dispensing with the ecclesiastical laws allowed in that realm ? no , but that this part of the ecclesiastical law was not received there ; for that , partly by the feudal right , partly by the right of the crown , partly by immemortal custom , the profits of vacant bishopricks accrue to the king. it is a harder point to defend the regale , where the custom hath gone along with the canon ; but if the rights of the crown be defended in france against custom and canon too , our kings cannot be blamed for resuming other rights after so long usurpation by the popes . but where the canon law was not received in any part of it , there it hath no force to oblige ; and where there is no ecclesiastical law in force , there can be no dispensing with it ; for although the later canon law , doth void all customs against the liberties and priviledges of the church , non debet in hac parte canonibus , ex aliqua consuetudine praejudi●ium generari : yet when these canonists come to explain it , they tell us , that an immemorial custom hath force against a canon ; but how ? not as a custom , but as it is a proof of an ancient priviledge granted by the pope ; although there be not the least ●ootsteps of it : and so this instance of h. . will prove , according to this way , only some ancient priviledge our kings had , and no ecclesiastical jurisdiction by the right of the crown . but whether the king could dispense with the ecclesiastical laws in these cases , or not , it is certain the pope challenged to himself the power of doing it . for , after that the third council of lateran liad strictly forhidden pluralities ( which were then so common and scandalous ) upon pain of forfeiture , innocent the third complained in the fourth lateran , that he saw little or no benesit come by that severe canon ; and therefore he seems to make one more severe : that whosoever takes another benefice , shall be deprived of the former ipso jure ; and if he seeks to keep it , to lose the other . yet after all , this ends only in the popes power to dispense as he saw cause , with persons of greater rank or merit , and greater preferments . the words are , circa sublimes tamen & literatas personas , quae majoribus beneficiis sunt honorandae , cum ratio pustulaverit , per sedem apostolicam poterit dispensari . here the dispensing power is fairly owned in the canon it self . and in the other case , of the incapacity of priesthood by illegitimation ; the same stout pope declares , that it was in his power to dispense with that too . the case was this ; the church of worcester , upon the vacancy of the see , had chosen the arch-deacon of york for their bishop ; he comes to the arch-bishop of canterbury for confirmation ; but secretly confesses to him his illegitimacy ; ( which came to the popes ear. ) upon application to the pope for his confirmation , he demurs upon it . he could not deny that he had all other qualifications : but there was a canon of the former lateran council , which voided the election of all persons illegitimate . so then the business is at an end . not so neither . his predecessor could not hinder him from dispensing in this case ; who had equal power with himself . and there were many reasons to induce him to grant him a dispensation . why then did he not give one ? there was something else to be done first . the dispensing power must be owned by the church of worcester : and therefore they must first intreat the pope to dispense with him , by a humble supplication ; and then expect his favour by postulation . and so , for the present he voids his election . matt. paris takes particular notice , that in the publication of the decretals by gregory . this power of dispensing in these two cases , was looked on as a great innovation ; but such as brought great advantages to the court of rome . and the same pope , saith matt. westminster , voided the election of john bloud to the see of canterbury , because he had enjoyed two benefices with cure of souls , without a dispensation . and stephanus de segrave obtained , he saith , of that popes nuncio here , a dispensation of tot quot ; but it came to nothing by his sons death . here we see a power of dispensing with ecclesiastical laws , publickly owned and entred in the body of the canon-law ; and that by virtue of the plenitude of the popes power , which could not be bounded by the canons of the church , nor by the laws of his predecessors ; nor by the solemn profession every pope makes at his entrance , to preserve inviolably the canons and constitutions of his predecessors . this made so great an alteration in the state of the church , that it is no wonder great complaints were made of it ; considering that the consequence of such a power , could be nothing less than a subversion of all orders , and canons , and privileges ; for there could be no security of any of them any longer than it consisted with the popes pleasure . hence came all the complaints of non-obstante's , by the whole english nation in parliament , that by their means oaths , customs , charters , grants , privileges signified nothing ; for the pope could dispense with his own oaths and promises , as well as other mens ; and so there could be no trust in any thing he said or promised in never so solemn a manner . which is an effectual course to overthrow any government in the world . and it is a wonder , that after such gross and avowed violations of the most solemn engagements , mankind did not renounce all kind of society with him : for that is founded upon trust in compacts and promises ; and if those may be dissolved at pleasure , there is no foundation of mutual society left ; there being no reason to expect the performance of that from others , which they do not think them selves obliged to do . and so such a power of dispensing with obligations , naturally tends to a dissolution of government . for it is sinking the main pillars on which the whole fabrick stands ; which will tumble down sooner or later upon the heads of those who do it . but the great argument then was , that supreme power cannot be bound ; and therefore the popes pleaded , whatsoever canons or laws their predecessors made , they could not tie up them ; because par in parem non habet imperium : so we find innocent . argued in the canon-law . and to the same purpose matt. paris saith , that his successor inneocnt . did . but they did not attend to their own professions , still extant in the liber diurnus , wherein they did declare in the most solemn manner , that they would maintain the canons and constitutions of their predecessors . which was an absolute bar to all non-obstante's , if they acted upon principles of common honesty among men. but besides this , in privileges granted to others upon valuable considerations ( which the popes took care of ) the persons to whom they are granted , become parties , and have a real interest in them ; so that they become of the nature of contracts ; which cannot be broken without plain injustice , and dissolving that obligation between them . it is agreed by the most learned and judicious lawyers , that when grants or promises do pass into the nature of contracts , they are irrevocable by the parties that made them . and this the best french canonists do plead against the popes power of revoking the gallican liberties , supposing them at first to have come from the popes condescensions to them . and the same reason will hold as to other liberties . but here lies the main difficulty , to shew , when the grants that are made by superiors , do pass into the nature of contracts ; so that they cannot be revoked or dispensed with . the short of it is , when they are rather capitulations than laws . for laws are properly the commands of those who have authority to oblige ; and the reason of the obligation is drawn from the authority of the persons : but capitulations proceed upon consent of parties having differing interests ; and these among private persons , are called contracts ; and no one questions , but that such all men are by natural justice bound to perform . but the popes insisted on the plenitude of their power ; and a question is put among the canonists , and variously debated : whether if the pope swear to some things in the conclave , as that he will hold a general council within such a time , he can dispense with himself , or not ? some say , he is guilty of perjury , and cannot absolve himself , although he should apprehend that a greater good would come by not keeping it . for that both pope and emperor are bound by their own contracts ; the keeping of them being a part of natural justice : which no plenitude of power can dispense with ; since all contracts giva a right to the persons with whom they are made ; insomuch that baldus his authority is cited by them for these words , contractus qui fiunt cum principe , habent naturam bonae fidei contra dominum ; and he goes so far as to say , that the sovereign power is so obliged by the contracts made by princes with their own subjects , that they are not revocable by themselves or their successors : and if they were not obliged by their own contracts , no man could trust them ; and consequently all society with them , would be dissolved . and whatever supreme power may do as to such acts as are properly its own , yet where there is jus quaesitum alteri ( as in all contracts there is ) that cannot be taken away by it . but all this was answered on the other side , by the plenitude of the popes power ; for it was a contradiction , they said , to own that , and to say , that there was any engagement by oath , or otherwise , which he could not dispense with . for , as hank . h. . . says , papa omnia potest . and therefore all such oaths and promises as limit the popes dispensing power , are void in themselves . and as to ecclesiastical laws or constitutions , they easily resolved all difficulties about them , upon such principles as these . . that the popes have the supreme power in the church . . that the ecclesiastical laws were the popes laws . . that it is an inseparable prerogative in the pope to dispense with ecclesiastical laws upon necessity and urgent occasions . . that the pope is the sole judge of that necessity . . that this was not a trust given to the pope by councils or conclaves , but by god and st. peter , and therefore cannot be taken away from her . but i shall endeavour to give a clearer light into this matter , by shewing the several steps and degrees how this dispensing power came into the world , and how it passed from the ecclesiastical to other laws , when princes assumed such a plenitude of power in civils , which the popes practised in ecclesiasticals . the first time we read of dispensations was with respect to the ancient canons of the church ; and it implied a relaxation of the rigour of them ; not with respect to their force or binding power , but as to the penance which persons were to undergo for the violation of them . and herein the notion of dispensing was very different from what the canonists made it afterwards , when they declared it to be a relaxation of the law it self ; so that it should not have that force upon the conscience which it otherwise had : for , a dispensation with them , is a licence to do that which they cannot lawfully do without it ; and that with a non-obstante to that which otherwise makes it unlawful . de jure illicitum fit ex dispensatione licitum , & hic est proprie effectus dispensationis , saith pyrrhus corradus ; who gives a large account of the practice of dispensations in the court of rome , which conclude with a non-obstante to any former constitutions or canons of councils : but no such thing can be found in the ancient practice of the church , because the popes themselves were then believed to be under the canons . but when it was supposed , that the severe execution of the canons would rather hinder than advance the good of the church , the governours of it thought they had sufficient authority to abate the rigorous execution of them : as about the times of penance , the translation of bishops from one see to another , the intervals of orders , and such like . but the popes then pretended to be strict observers of the canons , when the particular bishops took upon them to dispense with the execution of them ; as appears by ivo's preface to his collection of canons , where he distinguisheth the immoveable or moral precepts from the canonical ; which he calls , moveable . in the former , saith he , no dispensation is to be allowed ; but in those things which only concern discipline , the bishops may dispense , provided there be a compensation , i. e. that the church's interest may be better secured or advanced thereby , as he there discourses at large ; and his rule is , ibi dispensatio admittenda est , ubi rigor periculosus est : but by this means the severity of the primitive discipline was quite lost . the bishops of rome observing this , thought it a proper time for them to appear zealous for the ancient canons , which gained them a great reputation in the world ; and by this means the custody of the canons was looked on as their particular province : which they improved so well , that at last they turned the guardianship of the canons into a power over them ; and then they found fault with the bishops dispensing with them , for another reason , viz. because the dispensing power was a prerogative of the roman see , and inferior bishops could act no farther in it than they had authority from it . we find that in s. bernard's time , the pope did take upon him to dispense too far , to his great dissatisfaction ; for by his dispensing power , he saith , he overthrew the order of the church ; murmur loquor , saith he , & querimoniam ecclesiarum . the pope dispensed with the ecclesiastical laws , in exemptions of abbots and others from that subordination , they stood in to their proper superiors : he saith , he could not see how this dispensing power could be justified : you do indeed shew a plenitude of power , but it may be not of justice ; you shew what you can do , but it is a question whether you ought or not ; and you ought to consider , first , whether it be lawful ; then whether it be decent ; and lastly , whether it be expedient . at last , he allows a dispensing power in two cases , urgent necessity , and common good ; otherwise he saith , it is not fidelis dispensatio , sed crudelis dissipatio , an overthrow of all order and government . in one of his epistles he speaks sharply against getting a dispensation to do that which it was not lawful to do without one : and he thinks he hath disproved it by invincible reason , for a licence from the pope can never make that lawful , which without it were unlawful . when the practice of the dispensing power grew more common , there were two great questions raised concerning it ; whether if a dispensation were granted without just cause , it were lawful or not ? and , whether if it were not lawful , yet it was valid ? there were some who flattered the dispensing power so much , that they allowed it in all cases , whether there were a just cause or not : these were the high-flown canonists , who resolved all laws into will and pleasure : but others , who allowed a dispensing power upon a just cause , yet thought it repugnant to the original design of government , for those who are entrusted with care of the laws , to dispense with them , without such a cause as answers the end of government : and some went so far , as to deny any validity in a dispensation granted upon pleasure ; for as an unjust law hath no force , so , said they , an unjust dispensation of a good law hath none . upon this point two great schoolmen differ . suarez , whom the lord chief justice vaughan commends for his learning in this matter , goes upon these grounds , . that a prince is not dominus , sed dispensator legum ; although the force of a law depends upon his authority ; and therefore in dispensing with a law he doth not act by absolute power , but by administration : for he is not lord over the community , but governour . . that for him to dispense in a law made for the community , without a just cause , is not only malum quia prohibitum , sed ex se , & ex natura rei & semper malum : therefore suarez was far from thinking a prince might dispense with any thing that was not malum in se ; for he makes it to be so , for him to dispense with a malum quia prohibitum , if it be prohibited by a law made for a publick good , and there be no just cause for it . . that although a prince sins in dispensing with such a law ; yet his dispensation holds as to the force of the law ; which he supposes to depend on the will of the prince , and therefore his will being altered , the obligation ceaseth as to the persons dispensed with . . that although such a dispensation holds as to the law , yet he thinks a prince bound in conscience to revoke such a dispensation , because it is unlawful for him to persist in such a will , it being repugnant to the common good , and the obligation of his duty . . that if such a dispensation be to the injury of a third person , then it is void in it self , as being repugnant to justice . vasquez saith , they are all agreed , that no prince hath a power to dispense with his laws according to his pleasure ; or because they are his laws : but he saith , there is a dispute , whether an unlawful dispensation be valid or not ? and he thinks not , and that a man's action after the dispensation , is as faulty as if there had been none ; his reason is , because a prince is bound by his own laws , so that he cannot dispense with himself as to the obligation of them ; for , if he could at pleasure dispense with himself , he could never be bound ; for how can a man be bound to keep a law , in which he can dispense with himself when he pleases ? and if he cannot dispense with himself , much less with any under him . having thus endeavoured to clear the nature and original of the dispensing power ; i now come ( . ) to the reason assigned by sir e. coke , from the year books , why the king may dispense with laws , because they be mala prohibita and not mala per se. my lord vaughan said right concerning it , that this rule hath more confounded men's judgments on this subject than rectified them : which i shall make appear by shewing , i. that it alters the frame of our government . ii. that it takes away all security by law. iii. that it contradicts the sense of our nation in former ages . iv. that the rule is contrary to the precedents in law. i. that it alters the frame of our government . for it goes upon a very false ground , viz. that the king may dispense with any thing which is not evil in its own nature , or antecedently to any human laws ; which is to suppose the whole legislative power to be lodged in the person of the king : for , all who understand these matters , do agree , that a power to dispense with laws , is the same with a power to make them . dispensare , hoc est , lege solvere is solus potest , qui ferendae abrogandaeque leg is potestatem habet ; saith h. grotius . suarez saith , he hath the power of dispensing , qui legem tulit , quia ab ejus voluntate & potentia pendet . vasquez , that the dispensing power lies in him , qui habet potestatem condendi & abrogandi legem . pufendorf , that none can dispense with a law , but such as have the power of making it . but we need no authorities in this matter : for to dispense ( in the sense it is here taken ) is to take away the obligation of a law ; and whoever takes it away must have the power of laying it on : and there is no difference between the dispensation with a law , and the abrogation of it ; but that a dispensation is an abrogation of it to particular persons , while others are under the force of it ; and an abrogation is a general dispensation , that being no more than a relaxation of the whole law , to those persons who were bound by it before : but if a part of the law be taken away , as to the whole community , then it is called a derogation of it ; but if the law be relaxed only for a limited time and under certain conditions , then it is not an abrogation , but an indulgence or suspension of the law. to dispense with a law is more than to give an equitable sense or a favourable interpretation of a law ; for he that inteprets a law , supposes his interpretation to agree with the sense and design of the law ; he that dispenses , owns that which he dispenses with , to be against the intention of the law , but that he hath power to take away the force of it , so far as he thinks fit . he that saith , thou shalt not kill , doth not reach to legal executioners of justice , interprets the law according to reason and equity : but when god said to abraham , go and sacrifice thy son , he must be supposed , by virtue of his supreme authority , to dispense with the law in his case , so as to make that lawful upon his command , which would not have been so without it . some will not allow this to be called a dispensation , but an alteration of the matter of the law ; but when that alteration comes from the authority of the law makers , it is the same ; so that to interpret a law is an act of discretion and judgment ; but to dispense with it , of authority and jurisdiction . and none can therefore dispense in the law of god , but he that made it ; all that the wisest and greatest men can justly pretend to , is no more than to give the true sense of it ; and it is intolerable prsumption for any creature to pretend to more . an equitable sense , as to human law , is not always that which seems to be most favourable to those who go against the letter of it ; but that which most enforces the end and design of the law , although it be not comprehended in the words of it . if a law mentions a crime of a lesser nature , in regard of circumstances , and in regard of those circumstances , promises some favour , ( as benefit of the clergy ) it can be no equitable sense to extend it to such acts which have worse circumstances , because the ground of the favour was the extenuation of the fact by the circumstances ; so that the chief rule of equity in the interpretation of a law , is to attend to the intention and design of it , more than to the bare words . the intention and design of the law is not to be measured by particular and accidental cases , wherein some inconveniencies are to be born , but by the publick and general good , which more than makes amends for them ; which is the reason of that maxim , better a mischief than an inconvenience ; which is false , unless taken in such an equitable sense . there are certain ways of reason , which mankind do allow in the equitable interpretation of laws , as that no positive law must be interpreted against natural and divine laws : that if laws contradict each other , one or the other must lose its force : that no case which overthrows a law by necessary consequence , was ever intended to be allowed by it ; for that were to make a law , and to give a liberty to break it at the same time. if a law be designed for a publick good , and an exception be afterwards made against it , as to the incapacity of some persons , by it , for publick service , which could not but be foreseen and considered at the time of making the law , there is no reason that should be alledged as a reason for dispensing with the law , which was intended at first by the law : for however the case may be put , as to such things which could not be foreseen , at the making of a law , yet what was intended to be prevented by the making it , cannot in reason be alledged against it : because if there had not been other things to have over-ballanced that inconvenience the law had never been passed . there is no doubt but the same power which makes a law , may dispense with it , if it sees cause ; for if it can abrogate a law , as to the whole community , it may as well dispense with it , as to particular persons , and leave it in force to all others . the question then is , whether a prince assuming to himself a dispensing power , doth not thereby assume the legislative too ? since it appears , that there can be no power to take off the obligation of a law , but that which causes it ; although it be with respect to particular persons ; but if it amount to a general suspension of a law , there can be no question to those who understand what these things mean. our present business was to shew , that if the king can dispense with mala prohibita , as such , the legislative power must be resolved into him ; because a dispensing power can be refer'd to no other : and if the king may dispense with all mala prohibita , he may dispense with all just human laws . for no law can be just , which requires malum in se ; and therefore such a law being void of it self , there can be no exercise of a dispensing power , but concerning mala prohibita . and if the king can therefore dispense , because they are only prohibited , then from a parity of reason he may dispense with all laws that concern only such things ; and we cannot be secure of any laws , but such as forbid things that are evil in themselves . ii. and this is my second reason against it , that it takes away all security by our laws , both as to our religion and liberties . . as to our religion : i grant , that , to take away all religion , is malum in se ; to take away the true religion , is malum in se ; but in a nation divided about the true religion , and where the prince is of one opinion , and the main body of the nation of another concerning it , what security can the people by this rule have as to the enjoying that which they account the true religion , but the prince doth not ? the utmost we can suppose in this case , is , for such laws to be made , as they apprehend to be most effectual for this purpose . but what security can these laws afford , if the prince assume a power of dispensing with ecclesiastical laws ? it is not possible they can have any , unless they can be secure he shall never exercise this dispensing power ; for by it , he may equally suspend all laws which relate to it ; he may give a dispensation to such as are unqualified by our laws , and put them not only into places of authority and trust , but into all ecclesiastical preferments , as soon as he thinks fit ; and that without any check upon his conscience ; because those whose office it is to interpret the laws , tell him , he hath such a power by law to dispense with ecclesiastical laws , although passed in the solemnest manner , and with a design to give security to the people concerning the preserving their religion . and the higher this point is carried , still the less security for , if it be thought such a prerogative of the crown , as voids all that is made against it , then laws signifie just nothing : for , every law is a limitation of unbounded will and power ; and therefore laws afford no manner of security ; for either they are void of themselves , or may be made void when a sovereign prince pleases . and i think ( as men are ) meer will and pleasure will never be taken for an infallible security . but it may be said , that taking away the true religion , is malum in se ; and therefore by this rule such laws cannot be dispensed with . very true ; we think so : but suppose a king of another opinion ; and that he should think it good service to destroy heresie and schism , and those are mala in se ; what security can there be then from this rule ? for the same persons who assert the dispensing power , make the king to be judge , not meerly of the necessity and urgent occasions , but of what is malum in se , and what not ? suppose then , he should look on our religion as heresie and schism , what possible security can this distinction afford us ? . as to our civil liberties ; which are founded upon our laws , made by the consent of king and people . but if there be such an inseparable prerogative in the crown , as enables the king to dispense with all mala prohibita , what becomes of all the ancient charters of liberties ? for , no one can pretend that the contrary to them all are mala in se. and if there be no farther security , than what this distinction affords , we are in a very precaridus condition , as to all our liberties . i confess the case is different , as to the ecclesiastical laws , mentioned in h. . . and as to our civil liberties : because these ecclesiastical laws had their force as such from a foreign power ; and as far as they were the laws of the kingdom , it was by a tacit consent and acceptation ; and not by any solemn enacting of them . and as to such as these , where the laws were not received , and the things were no farther evil , than as they were prohibited by such a foregin power , there is nothing but what is reasonable in the case of h. . . as it is in the books . but when this hath been extended to laws which have passed in the most solemn manner by the king in parliament ; it is time not only to take notice of , but to set forth the mischievous consequences of this distinction , as it is so applied ; for it leaves us under no manner of security by our laws . . it contradicts the sense of our own nation in former ages . which i shall shew in a remarkable instance , about the statutes of provisors , e. . e. . r. . which were prohibitory statutes . and it cannot be supposed that at that time , when the pope was allowed to be head of the church , and consequently supreme patron of the benefices of it , that the acceptance of a title to an ecclesiastical benefice from him , should be thought malum in se. but these statutes being in force , i shall make it appear that the king did own he had no power to dispense with them , but as the parliament thought fit to allow it . i begin with r. at a time , when the kingdom was in quiet ; and however , could not be in any disturbance on the account of the statute of provisors , which the nation desired and only those who depended on the court of rome opposed . but the court-bishops suggested that it was for the kings interest in dealing with the court of rome , to have a power to relax and to dispense with these statutes as he saw cause . therefore the arch-bishop of york , then chancellor , proposed it in the opening of the parliament , as one of the things for which it was called , viz. to find out a temperament in that matter , so as the pope might not lose his right , nor the king his . after this matter was debated , the commons declare their assent en plein parliament , that without prejudice to the rights of those who were in possession by virtue of the statute , the king by the advice and consent of the lords , might dispense with the said statute , so as should seem reasonable and useful till the next parliament , but so as the said statute be repealed in no article of it . and they reserve to themselves the liberty of disagreeing the next parliament . and they conclude with a solemn protestation , that this was a novelty not practised before , and ought not to be drawn into an example and precedent for the future ; and they desire this protestation might be entred and recorded in the rolls of parliament ; which the king commanded to be done . doth this now look like a declaratory act , and made in affirmance of the kings dispensing power ? it might as well be said , that an act for restraining the prerogative , is made in affirmance of it . it is true , there is a dispensing power granted , but with such restrictions and limitations as shew , that such a power was not then thought to be inherent in the crown . for , . why should it be proposed to the parliament to grant it , if the king had it before ? did the king ever put it to the parliament to grant him a power to pardon malefactors ? but in the case of dispensing with a law , it was not only proposed but assigned , as one reason of calling the parliament . . why till the next parliament , if it were owned to be an inherent right of the crown ? would the parliament go about to bound and limit an inseparable prerogative in such a manner ? . why is it called a novelty , and a thing not to be drawn into example ? was ever any thing like this said of a declaratory act ? the natural consequence whereof is just contrary ; that whereas some just right of the crown hath been contested and denied , for the future it ought to be owned and submitted to by all persons . it is hard to think of words more inconsistent with a meer declaratory act than those , ne soit trait en ensample nen consequence en temps avenir . . if this were a declaratory act , what need it be repeated so often in parliament afterwards ? were the commons so forgetful of the kings prerogative , as to need making so many declaratory acts about the same thing ? yet thus we find it about this dispensing power , as to the statutes of provisors . for r. . the archbishop of york again declared in the opening of the parliament , that one cause of calling it , was to settle this matter about provisors . and the commons again yielded , the king should have such a power to moderate it , as he should with his council judge expedient ; but so as it be all laid open before the next parliament , that they might upon good advice agree to it . r. . tydeman , abbot of beauley , was by the popes provision , made bishop of landaff . but the king , notwithstanding the former proceedings , did not take upon him to dispense with the statute , but left it to the parliament ; and his dispensation was passed by act of parliament , the king , lords and commons assenting thereto . r. . the commons in parliament do again assert de bon gre de leur parte en plein parlement , that the king with his council may dispense with the statute of provisors , as shall seem fit , so as the same be heard and examined the next parliament , and so corrected as shall be thought convenient by the king , with the advice of his council in parliament . h. . the commons in like manner give their assent , that the king should have the same power of dispensing with the statute , which his predecessors had , and to repeal and annul it , as should seem expedient to him . which was no more than a general dispensation . yet notwithstanding this was recorded in parliament . h. . the commons appearing before the king and the lords , it was declared , that the dispensation should not extend to cardinals or other strangers . at the same parliament a petition was presented to the king , that if any one did accept a benefice by papal provision , against the statute , and had his pardon from the king for it ; yet if he went about to disturb the present possessor , by virtue of his provision , then his pardon should be void , and he should incur the penalty of the statute . to which the king gave his assent . h. . the king having granted particular licenses for dispensations as to this statute , and finding the great inconveniences which came by them , he generally and universally revovoked them , and promised in parliament to find out some proper remedy in this matter . h. . the king was moved in parliament to confirm that revocation ; but he then took time to consider . but h. . c. . the king reinforced in parliament all the statutes against provisors ; as it is in print . h. . the commons pray , that the statutes may stand in full force against provisors ; and that no protection or grant made by the king to hinder the execution of the said statutes , shall be allowable , or of any force ; and whatever is done contrary to them , shall be null . the answer is , let the statutes be observed and kept . but if the statutes were to be strictly observed , what saving can there be to the king's prerogative ? since the statutes were universal , and the king 's particular grants in this case were the great motive of the commons desire to have them reinforced , in the beginning of this king's reign : and these statutes continued in full force to the time of h. . insomuch that cardinal woolsey was prosecuted by the king's attorney , for offending against them by his legatine power , although he had the king's assent to it , and he exercised it several years by his permission . stephen gardiner , in his letter to the protector , saith , that he obtained his legatine power by the king's assent : from whence he observes , what danger they may fall in , who break the law with the king's consent ; for in the cardinal's case , he saith , that because his legatine power was against the laws of the realm , the judges conclude the offence to be such as incurred the praemunire : and this he asserts was the sense of the lawyers of that time ; and for confirmation of it , he brought the case of the lord tiptoft , who sufferd on tower-hill , because in execution of the king's commission , he had offended against the laws of the realm : and of many judges who had fines set on their heads in like case , for acting against the law of the realm by the king's commandment . but it is pleaded on the other side , that the commons , h. . n. . put in the saving the king's prerogative into their petition concerning the statute of provisors , that it may stand in full force : and this was an owning the king's dispensing power by all the commons in parliament , when they were in a high debate with the crown . this seems to have a good shew of reason to any one that doth not consider the practice of those times , in acts of parliament ; for the petitions of the commons , before h. . were not taken entire and just as they delivered them ; but several clauses were inserted by the court , especially such as seemed to preserve the king's prerogative ; which the commons found so inconvenient , that the next year , as serjeant glanvil observed , ( and probably on the occasion of these savings , h. . n. , and n. . ) the course was altered , and hath so continued . therefore methinks so great weight should not be laid on these savings , as if they implied the owning the dispensing power , when the design of the law was against it . and the king's answer is , let the statutes be held and kept . i appeal to any man's understanding , whether the saving the king's prerogative can be any other than a general clause put in , without respect to the dispensing power ; since the petition is against the exercise of it , and the answer , that the statutes should be observed ? if they were observed , what use of the dispensing power ; for that lay in giving leave not to observe them ? what strange sense is this , the king promises , the statutes shall be kept , saving his prerogative , that they may not be kept ? for , they feared the not keeping them from such a prerogative : and when the king therefore yields they shall be kept , he doth give up any such prerogative , or else he doth not answer their petition . the truth is , when the kings had got this power into their hands , though it were with such limitations at first , yet they found arts from time to time to keep it , till at last they were unwilling to part with it ; as appears by h. . but upon the restless importunity of the commons it was laid down by him . and now in the beginning of h. . the commons took care to prevent its rising in a new reign ; but he being a prince not ready to part with any thing which looked like power , was in probability , not easie to be brought to confirm the statute : of provisors , without some general words of saving his prerogative , which the commons might yield to , that they might gain the main point ; since those words could signifie nothing against the very intention and design of the law. iv. the precedents in law do contradict this rule ; as will appear by those which are produced by the lord chief justice vaughan , in the case of thomas and sorrel . . the king cannot dispense with a common nusance , for the king , he saith , cannot pardon continuing nusances ; but the penalty he may . the king cannot dispense with a nusance to the high ways , by h. . he cannot pardon or discharge the nusance , or the suit for the same , the high-ways being necessary for such as trawel ; but common nusances are not mala in se , which are not evils at common law ( as some understand them ) but things so intrinsecally evil , that no circumstances can make them lawful . malum in se is a moral evil , in its own nature ; and therefore can never be dispensed with ; but a nusance at common law is but a natural evil , and all the moral evil of it lies in the prohibition by law : and yet in these , it is granted , that the king cannot dispense : and the year-book saith , that a licence to make a nusance in the high way were void : for what reason ? is it a thing forbidden by the natural or divine law ? cannot the king , for his will and pleasure , license the making a nusance ? and yet is it possible for men of sense to imagin , that he can by his dispensing power give leave to do such things , as in consequence overthrow our laws and religion ? doth the law take greater care of the high-way than of our liberties and religion ? this would seem strange doctrine to people of another country , viz. that by the law of england the king hath no power over the high-way , to dispense with a common nusance therein , but he hath over the laws made for the most publick good and security of the nation . and truly this cannot but seem strange to as many among our selves , as allow themselves the liberty of thinking ; doth the law only take care of oxen and high-ways ? but it is well observed by the learned chief justice vaughan , that publick nusances , are not mala in se , but mala politica & introducta ; and when a thing is said to be prohibited by the common law , the meaning is no more but that the ancient record of such a prohibition is not to be found . the king cannot pardon the damage done to particular persons , saith the same chief justice , where the suit is only the kings , but for the benefit and safety of a third person , the king cannot dispense with the suit , but by consent and agreement of the party concerned . and again , penal laws , the breach whereof are to men's particular damage , cannot be dispensed with . and the chief justice herbert owns , that the king cannot dispense with laws which vest the least right or property in any of his subjects . here we see , the prerogative bounded , where the interest of particular persons is concerned ; but doth the law take more care of them than of the publick interest , and the concernment of the whole nation ? but i find another distinction in this case , viz. there is bonum publicum ; and laws made for that may be dispensed with : and there is bonum singulorum populi ; and with laws that concern that the king cannot dispense . this is admirable learning , if it be brought out of these terms : and the meaning is , the king can do nothing to the prejudice of the people in their private capacities , but he can do what he will with the publick . i had thought , a prince had been , in the first place , bound to regard the good of the publick , and to take care of the salus populi complicati , ( as it is called ) i. e. as they are imbodied together , and not of the private interests of particular men , which can never be preserved , when the publick safety is not secured . . it is granted , that in penal laws , by act of parliament , where the offenders are punishable at the king's suit , but where the offence is to the immediate wrong of particular persons , and for which the law gives them special actions , the king cannot dispense . never was law more tender of the interest of particular persons than ours : but suppose a penal law by act of parliament , relates immediately to the publick , and gives no particular persons any special actions ; is such a law therefore dispensable , because only the publick good , and the safety of the nation are concerned ? which are not ( it seems ) to be valued with the private interests of particular men. they who affirm such things , may be very learned in book cases ; but they do not seem to have studied the jus publicum , as bracton calls it , which concerns statum reipub. or the political law of this nation ; which shews the great respect which the good of the community ought to have above private interests : but when persons take up their notions and maxims , from laws relating to meum and tuum , they are very apt to judge of publick laws , according to those measures . . it is granted , that the king cannot license a baker , brewer , or victualler to break the assize of bread or ale , nor a miller to take more toll than the law appoints ( therefore these are mala prohibita ) ; nor a taverner to break the assize of wine ; nor a butcher to sell measled swines-flesh or murrain flesh ; nor any man to forestal the market , by a non obstante of the statute de pistoribus ; which prohibits all these under several penalties . nor can he licence butchers , fishmongers , poulterers , or other sellers of victuals ; nor hostlers to sell hay and oats at what price they please , by a non obstante of the statute of e. . c. . and r. . c. . still the law is extreamly tender of us , as to meat and drink , and not only for our selves , but for our horses too ; so that the king cannot dispense with the laws about them : and yet can we think so meanly of the wisdom of our ancestors , that they would take such care of bread , and wine , and horse-meat , that the king himself could not inhance the price of them ; but that as to their laws , which relate to the publick , they were content to leave them to the will and pleasure of their prince ? no one that reads the history of our ancestors , and the contests they had with kings to obtain their publick liberties , could ever entertain such a thought concerning them . . if foreign manufactures or foreign corn be prohibited for support of the natives , a licence to one or more , to bring them in , if general , is void by the case of monopolies , notwithstanding a non obstante . this is certainly malum prohibitum ; and yet the king cannot dispense with it . and it is really a very hard case , if the king cannot dispense with a monopoly in trade , and may dispense with a monopoly in religion , i. e. that notwithstanding all the laws for setling our religion at home , he may grant a licence to foreigners to introduce another , although never so repugnant to our laws ; for none who understood our affairs , could imagine , that this dispensing power was set up for any other end. but what shall we say to the precedents on the other side ? i shall pass by others , which have been sufficiently answered already , and only speak to that which above all others hath been declared to be the foundation of the dispensing power ; and therefore deserves to be farther cleared ; and that is , the case of dispensing with the statutes about men's continuing sheriffs more than a year ; which is urged as plain and concluding , because it was for a publick good , and preventing great mischiefs ; yet the king's power of dispensing in this case was allowed by all the judges of england , h. . and this hath been cited as adjudged in several books of great authority , fitz-herbert , plowden , coke , &c. and the practice hath ever since been accordingly . this is the whole strength of the argument . and i shall not repeat what others have already said , to shew that this was not the reason of the judicial sentence then given ; but the particular ground of one of the judges , after they had declared the patent to be good . but however that were , it cannot be denied , that great lawyers since that time , have taken it to have been the sense of the judges then . for coke's words are express in calvin's case ; it is enacted by the parliament of . h. . that no man should serve the king as sheriff of any county above one year , and that notwithstanding of any clause of non-obstante to the contrary , that is to say , notwithstanding that the king should expresly dispense with the said statute ; howbeit , it is agreed in h. . that against the express purview of that act , the king may by a special non-obstante dispense with that act. here it is plain , that in coke's opinion , at least , the judges did agree , that although king and parliament had made an act which made void any grant with a non obstante , yet that such a grant made afterwards , with a special non obstante , was good . i am not much concerned , whether it were their opinion or not ; because i think there is much greater reason , and stronger authority on the other side . . as to reason : if a non-obstante from the king , be good , when by act of parliament a non-obstante is declared void , what doth an act of parliament signifie in such a case ? must we say , it is a void clause ? but then to what purpose was it put in ? did they who made the act , understand it to be a void clause when they put it in ? certainly , it was then thought otherwise ; and if it were so , we have the authority of the parliament against the opinion of the judges . if it were not a void clause then , how came it to be so afterwards ? what alteration was made in the law of england in that interval , and by whom ? how comes a clause that had force in h. . to have none , h. ? could radcliff or the rest , by their opinions , destroy the force of an act of parliament ? no ; but coke saith , no act can bind the king from any prerogative which is sole and inseparable from his person ; but he may dispense with it by a non-obstante , as a sovereign power to command any of his subjects to serve him for the publick weal , and this solely and inseparably is annexed to his person ; and this royal power cannot be restrained by any act of parliament , neither in thesi nor in hypothesi ; but that the king by his royal power may dispense with it ; for upon the commandment of the king and obedience of the subject , does his government consist ; as it is provided by the statute of h. . c. . that all patents made or to be made of any office of a sheriff , &c. for term of years , or for life , in fee-simple or in tail , are void and of none effect , any clause or parol of non-obstante put or to be put into such patents to be made notwithstanding . and further , whosoever shall take upon him or them to accept or occupy such office of sheriff , by vertue of such grants or patents , shall stand perpetually disabled to be or bear the office of sheriff within any county of england , by the same authority . and notwithstanding that by this act , . the patent is made void . . the king is restrained to grant a non-obstante . . the grantee disabled to take the office , yet the king by his royal sovereign power of commanding , may command by his patent ( for such causes as he in his wisdom doth think meet and profitable for himself and the commonwealth , of which he himself is sole judge ) to serve him and the weal publick , as sheriff for such a county , for years or for life , &c. and so was it resolved by all the justices of england in the exchequer chamber ' h. . here the point is resolved into an inseparable prerogative in the king ; which no act of parliament can restrain , although made with his own consent . is there no act of parliament then , which this great lawyer will allow to restrain the king's prerogative , so as he cannot disperse with it ? what saith he to the case of buying offices at court ? cannot the king by vertue of his prerogative , order his houshold as he pleases , to dispose of offices about him , as he thinks fit ; no. the same lawyer saith , that no non obstante could dispense with the act against buying of offices . and yet one would think that the king had as great a prerogative in the court , as over the kingdom . but how comes he to say , that the king can dispense notwithstanding the disability , when elsewhere he saith , the king cannot dispense in the case of a disability by law ? for the reason he gives why the king cannot present a man to a living who is convict of simony , is , because the law hath disabled him . very well . and yet in this case , although the law hath disabled him , the king may dispense . where are we now ? the king can dispense with a disability , and he cannot dispense with it . this is indeed a very dark learning of dispensations , as c. justice vaughan well called it ; for we cannot yet find the way through it . can the king dispense with a disability in law or not ? if not , the case of sheriffs is gone . if he can , then why not in the case of symony ? why not , as to sitting in parliament without taking the oaths ? no , here is a disability in law. what then ? cannot the k. dispense with a disability in one case , as well as the other ? bu : the same person saith , that in that case , because the words amount to a disability , the king cannot dispense , and here , where the disability is expressed , he may . but we are lately told , there are two sorts of disabilities : one is actually incurred , as that upon the members who sit without taking the oaths ; and the other is a disability annexed to the breach of a law , as a penalty , and that penalty not to be incurred before a legal conviction ; and in this case the king's dispensation coming before the conviction doth prevent it , by making that lawful which would not have been so without it . but when a disability is actually-incurred , it cannot be taken off but by act of parliament . i answer , that if the law which makes the disability , doth allow of a dispensation antecedent to the conviction , then i grant that the dispensation before conviction , prevents the disability . as in digby's case ; if the dispensation had come before institution , the disability , as to holding the former living , had been prevented ; because the law doth expresly allow of a dispensation in the case . but here is no such thing . the act of parliament , supposes no dispensation , but makes an utter disability , as to the holding the office , in sir edward hales his case ; but a dispensing power is set up against the act of parliament , and such a dispensation neither before nor after conviction , can prevent a disability if it could , i can by no means see why it might not as well hold as to members of parliament , ( at least as to the oath of supremacy ) if they take their dispensation before sitting in the house . for the disability doth not take place till they enter the parliament , eliz. c. . and he that entreth the parliament without taking the said oath , shall be deemed no knight , citizen , burgess , or baron , nor shall have any voice , but shall be as if he had been never returned or elected . the intention of the law for the test , was a disability to hold the office ; but it allows time for persons to qualifie themselves , as appears by the act for the test. is not this plain overthrowing the design of the law , for persons instead of doing what the law requires , to take out a dispensation for not doing it , and so prevent the disability ? and what doth a law signifie , when the very design of it is overthrown ? and what is the power of making laws by common consent in parliament , if without such consent , the whole force of the law may be taken away by a dispensing power ? so that this doth not meerly make laws to signifie nothing but according to will and pleasure ; but it makes our very constitution insignificant ; which requires to every law the consent of the people in parliament . as for instance , by the first constitution of the roman government , the king had the custody of the laws , but no laws were to be made but by the consent of the roman people in the curiae , ( thence called leges curiatae ) would any one have thought this any privilege , if after these laws were passed , the king should claim an inseparable prerogative of dispensing with them as he sees cause ? for it is implied in such a fundamental contract as this , that laws when made , should not lose their force without their consent who made them . else it is not contractus bonae fidei . i will not dispute whether this were the original contract of our nation or not ; but this i may say , that when our government came to a settlement , after long struglings , this was one of the fundamental articles of it , that no laws should pass , or burdens should be laid upon the people but by their own consent in arliament . bracton saith , that a law among us , supposes the authority of the prince and the council , and consent of the great men , and agreement of the common-wealth . and he adds further , that our laws being thus made and established , mutari non poterunt , nec destrui sine communi consensu & consilio eorum omnium quorum consilio & consensu fuerunt promulgatae : which are very remarkable words against a dispensing power . for that doth imply a power to change the law , and in effect , to destroy it , without the advice or consent of those that made it . he saith indeed , the law may be improved without their consent , i. e. by the judges interpretation as to parallel cases not expressed . but if any new or hard case happens , it ought , he saith , to be respited usque ad magnam curiam , i. e. to the parliament , ut ibi per concilium curiae terminentur ; that being the supreme judicature of the nation . fortescue , who very well understood our constitution , saith , that the king , although he be the head of the political body , can neither change our laws , nor take away property without consent . and that our laws are made , not by the princes will , but by general consent ; totius regni assensu : he saith , they may be changed , but it must be , non sine communitatis & procerum regni assensu , quali ipsae primitus emanarunt . he takes notice , that several of our kings did not like our constitution , but affected a more arbitrary , and therefore approved the civil law , for that maxim , quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem . but he shews our constitution to be better for king and people . for here he saith , the king levies no taxes , nor alters laws , or makes new ones , sine concessione vel assensu totius regni sui in parliamento suo expresso .. but certainly dispensing with laws , is altering them ; not as to their words , but as to the intention and design of them , which is the main thing in a law ; and he that alters the law , as to any one , whose case is common with others , may alter it as to all others in equal circumstances . and what doth such a law then signifie ? in the charter of king john , the commune consilium regni , was to pass all aids ; and besides particular summons to the great men , general summons were to be given to others , to appear within forty days ; and if they did not , matters were to go on however . this very charter , as appears by matt. paris , was renewed , h. . but he had learned the trick of a non obstante from his good friend the pope ; and when he was urged with his own grants , he said , doth not the pope void his grants with a non-obstante ? why may not i do the same by the grants of my self and my predecessors ? to whom a sharp reply was made . as long as he observed justice in his actings , he would be king , and no longer . which i only mention to shew , that the use of a non obstante was then looked on as a violation of justice . and so it must needs be , if our laws , as bracton saith , be communis reipub. sponsio ; for then they are of the nature of contracts , and when laws are so , it is agreed by those who write of these matters , although otherwise no enemies to a dispensing power , that they are not to be dispensed with by a non obstante . if a prince makes a grant of any thing wherein he hath power to oblige himself in justice , it becomes , saith baselius pontius , of the nature of a contract , which gives a right to those to whom it is made , and lays an obligation of justice upon him . where a grant is made for the benefit of others , and is ac cepted by them , it is not in the granter's power to revoke it , as sanchez shews from many authorities . and the lawyers are of the same mind , as appears by what is already produced out of baldus and others ; but i shall mention some who declare the opinion of others . explorati juris est eas constitutiones quae in contractum transeunt ita ligare principes ut iis derogare nequeant , saith gerl. buxtorffius . gail saith , that princes are bound by all grants made per modum contractus de jure communi ; and that is the general opinion . one of the latest writers de jure gentium , saith , that princes are more strongly bound by laws , which pass by way of contracts , than by any positive laws made by absolute power , although they relate to the weightiest points of government . that a prince cannot grant a non obstante to such laws as he hath sworn to observe ; is not only the opinion of other lawyers , but of some of the highest canonists : and it is a rule among them , that no clause of non obstante can take away constitutionem juratam . where there is therefore not only a contract with others in the passing of a law , but an oath to observe the laws , i do not see how a non obstante or a dispensing power can take place . . we have the advantage in point of authority as well as reason , as to this very case of dispensing with the statute of h. . for i take it for granted , that the authority of parliament is more to be regarded than the opinion of judges : and i think we have good reason to believe , that the parliament did not think this act could be voided by a non obstante . ( . ) the parliament that declared , any non obstante against the act to be void , was certainly of that opinion ; or else they did a ridiculous thing , to put in a clause which was void of it self . ( . ) the parliament , h. . c. . was of that mind ; for what need an indemnity by act of parliament , if the king could by his dispensing power have made it lawful for the sheriffs to continue ? ( . ) the parliament , e. . . continued in the same mind , for , whereas in the beginning of his reign sheriffs were continued more than a year , by reason of the troubles , it was not then thought , ( though in a case of such necessity ) that the king could dispense with this law ; but they were indemnified by act of parliament , and the act declared to stand in full force . ( . ) the parliament , h. . c. . after the supposed judgment , h. . and in the time of a prince who would lose none of his prerogatives , was still of the same judgment ; for it not only recites the statute , but particularly takes notice of the voiding all pardons and non obstante's ; and by act of parliament indemnisies the under-sheriffs of bristow , and gives them the same priviledge which those of london had . what need all this , if it had been thought good law at that time , that the king might by his dispensing power have given sheriffs leave to have acted against that statute ? and now i leave any man of reason to judge , whether this famous case be a sufficient foundation for the seting up a dispensing power , either as to a particular statute made for the security of our religion , or for a suspension of our ecclesiastical laws . chap. iv. of the alterations made in the supremacy , by the statutes of henry the eighth ; with an answer to the objections . i now come to the alterations made in our laws , about the king's supremacy in the time of henry the eighth . hen. . c. . an act passed for taking away all appeals to rome , which is founded on the king 's natural and independent right of governing , and doing justice to all his people ; and the sufficiency of his own clergy , for hearing and determining such matters as belonged to their function ; and therefore all causes are to be heard , discussed , examined , finally and definitively adjudged and determined within the king's jurisdiction and authority , and not elswhere in the courts spiritual and temporal : but if the king be concerned , then it is referred to the upper-house of convocation . the preamble of this act against appeals to rome , is considerable : whereas by divers authentick histories and chronicles , it is manifestly declared and expressed , that this realm of england is an empire governed by one supreme head and king , &c. with plenary , whole and entire power , preheminence , authority , prerogative and jurisdiction &c. for final determination of causes , &c. so that here is an appeal to ancient history in this matter , and we have still sufficient evidence of it before the popes encroachments prevailed . the bishops and barons told anselm , in william rufus his time , it was a thing unheard of , and contrary to the custom of his realm for any one to go to rome without the king 's leave ; which is after explained by way of appeal : anselm made but a shuffling answer to this , although he had sworn to observe the customs of the realm , and he could not deny this to be one , but he pretended , it was against s. peter 's authority , and therefore could not observe it ; for this were , saith he , to abjure s. peter . from whence i infer , that the custom of the realm , was then thought by anselm to be inconsistent with the pope's authority : for whatever they talk of s. peter , it is the pope they mean. in the reign of h. . the pope complains grievously , that the king would suffer no appeals to be made to him ; and that due reverence was not shewed to s. peter in his kingdom ; and that they ended ecclesiastical causes at home , even where bishops were concerned ; and very learnedly quotes the de●retal epistles against them . afterwards , the pope sent his legate , and the king denied him entrance , and the whole parliament rejected it , as contrary to the ancient custom and liberty of england . that passage in the laws of h. . c. . which seems to allow of appeals , is a mere forgery , the whole chapter being a rapsody taken out of the canonists . h. huntingdon saith , that appeals were brought in in king stephen 's time , by henry bishop of winchester , his brother being the pope's legate . by the constitutions of clarendon , c. . the appeal lay from the archbishop to the king , which is well expressed by robert of gloucester . and the k. amend solde the ercbishops deed , and be as in the pope's sted , and s. thomas it withsteed . and although h. . in his purgation for the death of the archbishop , did swear , that he would hinder no appeals to rome in ecclesiastical causes ; and that he would quit the ancient customs of the realm : yet hoveden saith , the constitutions of clarendon were renewed in the parliament at northampton , and the justices in eyre were sworn to observe them , and to make others observe them inviolably : and for those who went out of the kingdom ( in case of appeals ) the justices were to enquire per consuetudinem terrae , according to the ancient custom ; and if they did not return and stand to the king's court , they were to be outlawed . in the time of r. . the popes complained much of geofry , archbishop of york , for slighting appeals made to rome , and imprisoning those that made them . celestine doth it twice , and in the same words : and innocent the third , in king john's time , renews the same complaint of him , that he shewed no regard to appeals made to the apostolick see. but when the rights of the crown were given up by king john to the pope , no wonder if the liberties of appeals were granted by him : but yet , in the succeeding reigns , we have several instances upon record of persons imprisoned by the king , for making appeals to rome . john of ibstock , in the time of e. . the abbot of walden , and a prebendary of banbury , in the reign of e. . the parson of leighe , harwoden , and the prior of barnwel , in the time of e. . so that this right was still owned by our princes , when the matter came into contest , and therefore the act of h. . against appeals was but a just resuming of the ancient rights of the crown . h. . c. . a commission is appointed for reviewing the canons : and it is observable , that because it could not be done in parliament time , the king hath power given him by act of parliament to nominate the thirty two persons to act in this matter , in these words ; be it therefore enacted by the authority aforesaid , that the king's highness shall have power and authority to nominate and assign at his pleasure the said thirty two persons of his subjects ; whereof sixteen to be of the clergy , and sixteen to be of the temporality of the upper and nether house of parliament . and because the last resort was to the arch-bishop in the former act of appeals ; therefore to prevent any inconveniences thereby , a new power is granted by this act , i. e. upon an appeal to the king in chancery , a commission is to be directed to such persons as the king shall appoint , who are to hear and determine such appeals , and the causes concerning the same . h. . c. . after the submission of the clergy , and the king being owned supreme head , yet the power of dispensing with the canons in particular cases , did not pass by commission from the king , but by act of parliament . the words are , it standeth therefore with natural equity and good reason , that all and every such laws human , made without this realm , or induced into this realm by the said sufferance , consents and custom , your royal majesty , your lords spiritual and temporal , and commons representing the whole state of your realm , in this your high court of parliament , have full power and authority not only to dispense , but also to authorize some elect person or persons , to dispense , &c. so that the power of granting faculties at a time when the prerogative was highest , was not executed by commission from the king by vertue of his supremacy and prerogative royal , but was granted to the arch-bishop of canterbury , in the manner expressed in that act. a late author has stretched this statute to a power of dispensing in other cases , besides those which depended on the canon-law . for , saith he , the pope usurped such a power in derogation of the authority royal , and then that power must be originally in the king ; otherwise , in the construction of the act , it could be no usurpation . but this is a very false way of reasoning ; the pope usurped such a power on the crown ; therefore the crown hath it of right : for the popes usurpations were many of them unreasonable ( his primacy , according to canons , being allowed ) and our law did restore to the king the ancient right and jurisdiction of the crown , and not put him into the possession of all the extravagant power which the pope usurped . for this law charges the pope with intolerable exactions of great sums of money , in pensions , censes , peter-pence , procurations , fruits , suits for provisions and expeditions of bulls , for arch-bishopricks and bishopricks , and for delegates and rescripts in causes of contentions and appeals , jurisdictions legantine , as well as dispensations , licenses , faculties , grants , relaxations , writs , called perinde valere , rehabilitations , absolutions , &c. now all these were usurpations in derogation of the crown ; but doth it therefore follow that the crown hath a right to them all ? but to go no further than the business of dispensations ; hath the king a right by this statute to dispense as far as the pope ? the pope usurped a power of dispensing in matrimonial contracts , in oaths , in vows , in some positive divine laws , which i suppose h. . by vertue of the supremacy , never pretended to . so that it is a very mistaken notion of some men , that the king had all the power , which the pope usurped . and as to the act , it is plain by the words of it , that the original power of dispensing , was lodged in the king , lords and commons , and the ministerial execution of it with the arch bishop of canterbury , even with respect to the king himself . but if the king had pretended to all the power which the pope usurped , he must have dispensed with himself . but this author offers to prove , that there is a power in the crown to dispense with acts of parliament , even such as concern the consecration of bishops ; because it is said , eliz. that the queen by her supreme authority had dispensed with all causes or doubts of any imperfection or disability in the persons , &c. to give a clear answer to this , we must consider these things ; . that , eliz. . the act of h. . for the order and form of electing and making arch-bishops and bishops , was revived ; as appears by the same act , . eliz. . . . that by another act , eliz. . the book of common-prayer and administration of sacraments and other rites and ceremonies of the church of england , which were in use in the time of e. and repealed by queen mary , were re-inforced , eliz. . . and the repeal annulled . but by the act and e. . c. . § . . the form and manner of making arch-bishops , bishops , priests , and deacons , was added to the book of prayer , as of like force and authority with it . . that the act of e. . being revived with the express mention of the alterations and additions made to it ; there was ro necessity apprehended , eliz. to make a distinct act for that which was in force already by the name of additions therein added and appointed by that statute . and this , i conceive , was the true reason why a bill did not pass , eliz. to that purpose : for , i find by the journals of the house , a bill was prepared and read the third time in the house of lords ; but upon consideration , it was laid a side , as superfluous . . that the popish party took advantage of this , and pretended , that the book of consecration , &c. was not established by law , being not expresly mentioned , and therefore the bishops made by it , were not legal bishops . and upon this bonner resolved to stand the trial against horn , bishop of winchester , as may be seen in dyer , r. f. . , so that the papists then stood upon it , that the crown could not dispense with laws ; otherwise bonner's plea signified nothing . for if there were such an inherent right in the crown to dispense with laws in ecclesiastical matters ▪ then these were legal bishops , having all the queen 's dispensing power for them . . the clause in the queen's letters patents for dispensing with imperfections and disability , was put in out of abundant caution , and not for any necessity that we can find : but it was customary in the popes bulls to put in such kind of clauses ; and therefore they would omit no power in that case , which the pope did pretend to ; which the act faith , was for avoiding all ambiguities and questions . . but after all , lest there should be any colour for disputing this matter left , according to the express letter of the law , therefore it was declared , eliz. . . that not only the book of common-prayer , but the form of consecrating archbishops , bishops , &c. which was set sorth in edward the sixth's time , and added to the common prayer , shall stand and be in full force and effect : and all acts done by it , are declared to be good and perfect to all intents and purposes : so that this act of parliament doth rather overthrow a dispensing power ; for if there were then such a supreme and absolute power in the crown , as to ecclesiastical matters , what need such an act of parliament to confirm and ratifie what our author supposes done by virtue of it ? but to return to the th of h. . in the same act of parliament , care is taken for the visiting exempt places , as monasteries , colledges and hospitals , by a particular commission under the great seal . but that which comes nearest to our business is , that h. . c. . another act passed , wherein the king's supremacy is acknowledged , and a power given by act of parliament for him to visit , redress and amend all errors , heresies , abuses , contempts and enormities whatsoever , which by any manner of spiritual authority or jurisdiction ought or may lawfully be reformed in any usage , custom , foreign laws , foreign authority , prescription , or any thing or things to the contrary hereof notwithstanding . if the king had this power by virtue of his supremacy and prerogative royal , can we imagin h. . so weak a prince , and so little a valuer of his own prerogative , as to have that given him by act of parliament , which was acknowledged to be in him before ? but the words are express , and that our sovereign lord , &c. shall have full power and authority from time to time to visit , &c. from whence it follows , that in the judgment of h. . and the parliament , such a power was not personally inherent in him , but that it did belong to the legislative power ; and therefore an act of parliament was required for it ; so that the supremacy , as then setled by law , lay in a total rejecting any foreign jurisdiction , and governing this church and kingdom by our own laws : which is well expressed in the preamble to the act against appeals , viz. that this realm of england is an empire governed by one supreme head and king , having the dignity and royal estate of the imperial crown of the same , unto whom a body politick , compact of all sorts and degrees of people , divided in terms and by names of spiritualty and temporalty , been bounden , and ought to bear , next to god , a natural and humble obedience . by virtue of this act cromwel was made vicegerent and vicar general , ( for both are in the same commission ) and the king gave to him omnem & omnimodam jurisdictionem , authoritatem sive potestatem ecclesiasticam , quae nobis tanquam supremo capiti hujusmodi competit , &c. which are the words of his commission . it 's true , that the power of granting a commission to exercise this power , is not expressed in the act of parliament ; but it being vested in the king by the act , he might appoint one or more commissioners to do it in his name ; but the case is very different where that very power of delegation is taken away by act of parliament , for that is the present case . to make this clear , we must consider the words of this act , and compare them with eliz. . the car. . . and the present commission . the words , h. . . are the same in effect with those eliz. . but with this observable difference , that whereas the statute of h. . gives the king his heirs and successors full power and authority from time to time to visit , &c. that of eliz. . unites the jurisdiction to the imperial crown of this realm ; but then it doth not proceed as the other did , to give full power and authority to her , her heirs and successors , to visit , &c. but the words are , and that your highness , your heirs and successors kings or queens of this realm shall have full power and authority by this act , by letters patents under the great seal of england to assign , name and authorise , when and as often as your highness , your heirs and successors shall think meet to exercise , use , occupy and execute under your highness , your . heirs and successors , all manner of jurisdictions , priviledges and preheminences , in any wise touching or concerning any spiritual or ecclesiastical jurisdiction , &c. so that the administration of this extraordinary jurisdiction is by this act limited to such who are nominated and appointed by the letters patents . the fountain of all jurisdiction is acknowledged to be in the imperial crown of this realm , but the administration is twofold ; ordinary , in the archbishops , bishops and ecclesiastical courts ; and to secure their dependance on the crown , the oath of supremacy is required by this act to be taken by every archbishop , bishop , and all ecclesiastical persons and officers . but besides this , it was then thought fit , that there should be an extraordinary administration of it , which is limited by this act to such as should be nominated and appointed in letters patents , &c. and no other reason can be given of the change from what it was in the time of henry the eighth , for it is not now placed absolutely , as then , in the queen , her heirs and successors , but the jurisdiction is annexed to the crown , and the extraordinary administration to be by commission under the broad seal . now since this power of nominating commissioners for extraordinary jurisdictions is taken away by act of parliament , the only question is , whether notwithstanding the right of jurisdiction being still in the crown , a new commission may not be granted for extraordinary jurisdiction ? there had been no question in this case , if the administration of extraordinary jurisdiction had not been setled eliz. . to be by commission , and that very power of granting such a commission had not been taken away by act of parliament . but as the matter now stands , the only pretence left for it is , that the same act which confirms the repeal , hath a salvo for the king's supremay , in these words ; provided always , that this act shall not extend , or be construed to extend to abridg or diminish the king's supremacy in ecclesiastical matters or affairs . if these words be taken strictly , with respect to the same matter , they make the act inconsistent with it self : for then the meaning would be , the king's supremacy shall not extend to the setting up such a court , always provided , that his supremacy , notwithstanding this act , may extend to the setting up such another court. is it consistent with the wisdom of a parliament to make such delusory acts ? therefore we must understand the king's supremacy in other matters . and there was this reason for it , all the acts of parliament touching the supremacy in henry the eighth's time were repealed by queen mary , and the restoring the supremacy to the crown was by the same act which set up the high commission ; and therefore when part of that act was repealed , and that repeal confirmed , it was fitting to add a clause , that there was no intention to abridg or diminish the supremacy setled by law , especially , since by that act the ordinary jurisdiction of the bishops in their courts was revived : and it is very well known , what clamors had been made , as though the bishops courts being held in their own names were inconsistent with the king's supremacy ; and although the judges had declared , july the first . that there was no necessity that processes ecclesiastical should be in the king's name ; and the king , august the eighteenth , in car. . published a proclamation to that purpose : yet all this did not satisfie some , but the bishops were still thought by them , in their ordinary jurisdiction , to usurp upon the king's supremacy and to abridg and diminish it ; therefore when this act passed to revive their jurisdiction , it was no more than reasonable to add such a clause to prevent misconstruction , viz. that this act , nor any thing in it , be construed to extend to abridg or diminish the king's supremacy in ecclesiastical matters ; as the ordinary jurisdiction of the bishops had been thought to do . and the vindicator of the ecclesiastical commission , could not forbear a marginal note to that purpose . the court held by his majesties ecclesiastical commissioners , is more legal than the bishops courts ; this is in the kings name , theirs in their own name only : as though the new setting up a court , forbidden by law , did not make it illegal , in whose name soever it were ; and as though courts expresly owned and allowed by law , were illegal , meerly because the forms of their proceedings do not run in the kings name . but i desire him to take an answer from his own oracle the l. ch. j. coke , now albeit the proceedings and process in the ecclesiastical courts , be in the name of the bishops , &c. it followeth not therefore , that either the court is not the kings , or the law , whereby they proceed , is not the kings law. for taking one example for many , every leet or view of frank pledge holden by a subject , is kept in the lords name , and yet it is the kings court , and all the proceedings therein are directed by the kings laws ; and many subjects in england have and hold courts of record , and other courts , and all their proceedings be according to the kings laws and customs of the realm . but there is a material objection or two yet to be answered . . it is objected , that jac. the judges declared in the star-chamber , that the deprivation of non-conformists , was lawful , because the king had supreme ecclesiastical power , which he hath delegated to the commissioners , whereby they had power of deprivation by the canon law of this realm ; and the statute of eliz. doth not confer any new power , but explain and declare the ancient power : and therefore they held it clear , that the king without a parliament might make orders and constitutions for the government of the clergy , and might deprive them , if they obeyed not . to which i answer , . our question is not , whether the king , without a parliament , may not require the observation of canons passed the convocation , so as to deprive the obstinate , by vertue of his supreme power in ecclesiastical matters ; but whether he may appoint a commission with power to deprive against an act of parliament ; which hath taken away the legal power of any such commission . . in matters of this nature , it is safer trusting the supreme judicature of the nation in parliament , than the extrajudicial opinion of the judges . and in this case the parliament hath declared it self another way ; as appears by the canons , . which were not only condemned in parliament afterwards ( which then might be imputed to the heat of the times ) but in the most loyal parliament after the king's return , particular care was taken , that neither the canons of . should be confirmed , nor any other ecclesiastical laws or canons , not formerly confirmed , allowed , or enacted by parliament , or by the established laws of the land as they stood in the year of the lord , . which implies , that the sense of the parliament then was , that we are not to own any canons but such as were confirmed , allowed , or enacted by parliament , or by the established laws of the land before . and therefore no new injunctions without a parliament or convocation , can make the clergy liable to a legal deprivation . no , not that which the defender is so pleased with the thoughts of , viz. to give their assent and consent to the king's declaration , on pain of deprivation . . the temporalties of the clergy , especially the bishops , are secured by several acts of parliament without a tryal at law. which , because i see none of our great lawyers take notice of , i shall here set down . edward the third , c. . we will and grant for us , and for our heirs , that from henceforth we nor our heirs shall not take nor cause to be taken into our hands , the temporalties of archbishops , bishops , &c. or other people of holy church of what estate or condition they be , without a true and just cause , according to the law of the land and judgment thereupon given . edward the third , c. . the title of the statute is , a bishops temporalties shall not be seized for a contempt . and this was received for good law , e. . . br. ord. . reg. f. . but a very late writer tells the world , that the possessions of ecclesiastical persons are but conditional freeholds ; and although absolute freeholds require a due course of law , yet conditional do not ; so that if a man chance to be deprived of his office , his freehold is gone . this is touching clergymen's freeholds to purpose ; and no doubt out of pure zeal to the church of england : but see the equity and impartiality of this man ! he had undertaken before to give publick assurance of abby-lands to the present possessors : and for what reason ? because the pope granted a dispensation with a non obstante to the canon law : and yet in this book he proves , that a non obstante is no ways binding to the supreme power ; so that no man could more effectually overthrow his own assurance than he hath done himself : for , saith he , present sovereigns , whether king or pope cannot bind their successors . and again , acts of graces and favours are alterable and suspendible at the pleasure of the succeeding sovereign : why then should any be so weak as to think the plenitude of the pope's power as to abby-lands , can be bound up by the act of any former pope ? i confess the comparing these two books together hath extreamly lessened his assurance of abby lands with me . and his answers to the power of revocation are so weak , that they come at last to no more than this , it is a thing which cannot well be done at present , therefore there is no fear it ever should be done . here is some security at least , till it can be done . but as to the possessions of the ecclesiastical persons of the church of england , he endeavours to prove , that they can have no security at all of their present possessions , notwithstanding any promise or a legal title : for if , as he saith , the king by his paramount jurisdiction can make any exceptions null ; and so void a solemn oath ▪ not to accept a dispensation from that oath ; why should he not as well make void any promise of his own ; when it hinders ( as he thinks ) a greater good , especially if the prerogative cannot be bound ? but then , as to a legal title , that is the vainest thing imaginable , as to such conditional freeholds which clergymen have ; for if the commissioners deprive them by their power ab officio & beneficio , their attendent frehold , saith he , is gone , without any course of law. and the defender saith , the commissioners may deprive if clergymen should not assent and consent to all contained in the king's declaration , if he required it . but it is to be hoped , that princes will not take the measures of justice , and wisdom , and honour from such men : we will therefore set aside the omnipotent engine of a non obstante , which doth not batter so much as it undermines , and consider the legal security of these conditional freeholds . i. all freeholds are in some sense conditional , or else they could never be forfeited : which shews , that there are none absolute , with respect to the law. and as to their original among us , it is agreed , that by the ancient right of tenures , all fees are conditional ; for they suppose fealty , the non-performance whereof is felony : which is not that which is done felleo animo , as sir edward coke trifles , but it is the same with falshood or treachery . the laws of h. . c. . si dominus de felonia vel fide mentitus compellat hominem suum : and in another law , the punishment of felony is forfeiture of the land , c. . and therefore the feudists say , that felony is delictum vasalli adversus dominum ; from the gothick fell or fehl , which signifies in general , a fault ; and in this case , the breach of trust towards his lord : of which sort of felonies the feudists reckon up some twenty , some thirty , any one of which makes a forfeifeiture : so that here is no such mighty difference , that the poor clergymen must only have conditional and attendant freeholds , as though other men's were absolute , whereas sir thomas smith affirms , all in england are fiduciary , i. e. conditional freeholders , beside the king. it is easie enough for any one to frame such a distinction of freeholds ; and to say , that these who have but such a freehold may be ejected , without any trial at common law : but he ought to have shewed , that magna charta or the ancient laws made such a difference between ecclesiastical freeholds and others ; which he hath not preended to do ; and therefore such a distinction ought not to be allowed , especially since i have produced an act of parliament edward . c. . which saith , that clergymen shall not be ejected out of their temporalties without a true and just cause , according to the law of the land : this was none of those statutes which are in print , but never enrolled , for sir robert cotton owns the enrolment of it , and that it was made into a statute ; and mr. pryn himself had nothing to object against it : but now it seems their conditional freholds may be taken from them without any due course of law. ii. there is more to be said concerning the rights of ecclesiastical persons in colledges , because they are lay corporations . for in appleford's case it was declared to be the opinion of all the judges in pattrick 's case , that a colledge was a temporal corporation : and therefore some notable difference in point of law must be shewed , why men may be deprived of some freeholds without due course of law , and not of others ; for i cannot imagine , that colledges being founded for the encouragement of learning , should lay men more open to arbitrary proceedings , than any other legal societies are : however , deprivation , in coveney's case , was agreed to be a temporal thing ; and for that reason his appeal was rejected , as not relating to a matter of ecclesiastical jurisdiction , which was only provided for . and . henr. . but it was allowed , that he might bring an action at common law. our author several times mentions this case ; but puts it off till he comes to treat of appeals , i. e. to the place he knew it to be improper in . for the question is not , whether an appeal doth lie to the king in chancery in a case of deprivation ? but , whether there be not a remedy at common law , if a person be deprived of a free-hold without due form of law ? and after a great deal of impertinency , about the manner of appeals , he at last concludes , the remedy had been at common law only ; which is clear giving up the point . for then , in case a person be deprived without due course of law , of his free-hold , he grants , that he is to have his remedy at law ; and consequently that a deprivation of such a free-hold without due course of law , is not sufficient . for the law provides no remedy where there is no injury done , nor just cause to seek for redress . and so i come to the second objection ; which is this ; . that to deny the jurisdiction of this court , is to deny the king's supremacy ; and that is a dangerous thing by the law. the case was this ; dr. f. of magdalen college in oxford , being summoned before the commissioners , denied the authority of the court , and persisted in so doing ; which our author saith , in another kings reign perhaps might have been interpreted a questioning the very supremacy it self ; which , how fatal it was to john fisher , bishop of rochester , and sir thomas moor , is worthy to be considered , both as a demonstration of our kings clemency , and that the doctor hath not so much reason to complain of his hard usage . the meaning whereof is this , that if they had proceeded in justice against him , he ought to have suffered as bishop fisher and sir thomas moor did . this is more than a bare insinuation , that to deny the jurisdiction of this court , is to deny the kings supremacy ; and that it is meer clemency not to deal by them who do it , as h. . did by bishop fisher and sir thomas moor. but , . it is by no means evident , that those two persons suffered meerly on that account . for their attainder in parliament , was for refusing the oath of succession ; and king james i. mentions the words of sir thomas moor to that purpose , which he spake to the lords when he was condemned . and their attainder , if i mistake not , was in the same parliament which made it treason to deprive the king of his dignity , title or name of his royal estate , and therefore could not be by an act not then passed . but , . suppose that they were at last proceeded against on the act then passed , what is this to the present case ? when coke saith , this act was twice repealed . and it is no extraordinary clemency , not to be proceeded against by a law that hath no force . . the statute in force , eliz. c. . is against those who defend or maintain the authority , jurisdiction , or power of the bishop of rome , or of his see , heretofore claimed , used , or usurped within this realm , or by any speech , open deed , or act , advisedly , wittingly attribute any such manner of jurisdiction , authority , or preheminence to the said see of rome , or any bishop of the same , for the time being , within this realm . so that it cannot be denied , that there is occasion for his majesties clemency ; but it is to another sort of men. . it is very hard straining to make the denying the jurisdiction of this court , to be denying the kings supremacy , when a person hath done all which the law requires him to do towards owning the supremacy . if he had said dr. f. had taken possession of his fellowship there , without taking the oath of supremacy , which the law requires , he had then indeed given ground to suspect him for denying the kings supremacy ; but to take no notice of those who refused to do as the law requires , and to talk thus of what severity might be used to one that hath done it , looks in him neither like clemency nor justice . . it was always looked on , as a legal right to make exception to the jurisdiction of a court , especially when newly established , without act of parliament , and to any ordinary understanding , in flat contradiction to it . it is very new doctrine that in a legal government exceptio fori shall be interpreted a denial of supreme authority , which was not only allowed by the canon and civil laws , but by the most ancient common lawyers we have . bracton observes several things , which are material to this purpose . . the first general exception which is allowed , he saith , is contra jurisdictionem . exceptions are either dilatory or peremptory . some that are only dilatory , as to the action , may be peremptory as to the jurisdicton . and these are to be put in ante litem contestatam , ad perimendum judicium , ne procedat . and the first of this sort , are the exceptions contra jurisdictionem , & contra personas judicantium , quibus deficit autoritas judicandi . so that he supposes , that such who do not deny the kings supreme authority , may have a legal and just exception against the authority of a court. . it was an allowable exceptio fori then , if any lay-persons did take upon them to proceed by ecclesiastical censures . in ecclesiastical causes , saith he , a secular judge hath no cognizance , because he hath not the power of coercion proper to them , viz. by ecclesiastical censures ; therefore , he saith , in his causis pertinet cognitio ad judices ecclesiasticos . his reason is , because those only are the competent judges , who have the power of coercion proper to the court. and for the same cause , ecclesiastical judges are not to interpose in secular causes , cum jura sint separata & limitata . and although the exemption of ecclesiastical persons from the civil courts , be certainly taken away by the acts of supremacy ; yet it hath been still alledged by our divines , that the ecclesiastical censures were still reserved to the ecclesiastical functions ; either in the way of ordinary or delegate jurisdiction . if the high commission did seem to go further , then that power being taken away by act of parliament , it must return to the ancient course . . there must be a legal authority to constitute a legal jurisdiction . ad hoc quod rata sint judicia , videre oportet a● justic. warrantum habeat à rege quod judicare possit . si warrantum non habuerit , non valebit quod coram eo actum fuerit , quasi coram non suo judice , quia primo legi debet breve originale , & postmodum breve per quod justiciar . constitutus est , & si nullum omnino habuerit , aut si habuerit non tamen ad manum , non erit ei parendum nisi it a forte sit , quod breve originale de justiciaria sua faciat mentionem , bracton , l. . de except . c. . . there must be a commission from the king , which must be read ; and if either they have it not , or it be not at hand , the jurisdiction is not to be owned , unless it be mentioned in the original writ . for commissions in those days were most commonly granted by writ , saith the lord coke . but by bracton's words , it appears , that commonly there was an original writ and a commission besides ; but sometime the commission was in the original writ , and then the reading of that was sufficient . the mirror saith , that the jurisdiction may be denied , if the seeing or hearing the commission be denied . . the bounds of the jurisdiction must be expressed ; and if those be exceeded , he saith an exception lies . which signifies nothing unless the commission be known . . the commission must be according to law ; for that is bracton's standing rule : nihil aliud potest rex in terris , cum sit dei minister & vicarius , nisi id solum quod jure potest . so that a commission against law is void in law. he mentions the common saying in the civil law , quod principi placet , legis habet vigorem ; and answers it thus , quod principi placet is not to be understood of his presumptive , but his legislative will ( animo condendi jura ) and with the advice of his magistrates , the king himself giving authority ; which is the description of an act of parliament , as we now call it . which he more fully expresses elsewhere , legis vigorem habet , quicquid de consilio & de consensu magnatum , & reipublicae communi sponsione , authoritate regis , sive principis praecedente , juste fuerit definitum & approbatum . if this were the ancient law of england , how comes the exception against a court to be a denial of the king's supremacy ; unless it be supposed impossible , that there should be an illegal court with the king's commission ? but we may suppose it possible for a new kind of star-chamber , or court of wards to be set up ; must no man question the legality of such a court , without denying the king's authority ? for this is a question in point of law. and the king's authority always goes with the law : and therefore to suppose it to be in any thing against law , is to suppose it to be contradictory to it self . but our author saith , it is necessary for every court to assert its own jurisdiction . very true , and to clear it too ; if it be liable to a just exception . i am very far from denying the king's supremacy ; yet i may be as far from thinking such a court to be legal , if an act of parliament can make a court illegal ; and to say no more for it , but that every court must assert its own jurisdiction , is to level it with the infamous high court of justice ; which when king charles the first , of blessed memory , denied their authority , all the reply was , that the court was satisfied of its own authority ; which could give satisfaction to no body else . and if this be all can be said for the legality of it , for all that i can see , there is just reason to deny it . finis . a catalogue of books published by the reverend edward stillingfleet , d. d. dean of st. paul 's and sold by henry mortlack , at the phoenix in st. paul 's church-yard . a rational account of the grounds of the protestant religion , being a vindication of the lord archbishop of canterbury's relation of a conference , &c. from the pretended answer of t. c. wherein the true grounds of faith are cleared , and the false discovered ; the church of england vindicated from the imputation of schism ; of the most important particular controversies between us and those of the church of rome throughly examined : the second edition : folio . sermons preached upon several occasions , with a discourse annexed concerning the true reasons of the sufferings of christ , wherein crellius his answer to grotius , is considered : folio . origines britannicae : or the antiquities of the british churches ; with a preface concerning some pretended antiquities relating to britain , in vindication of the bishop of st. asaph . by edward stillingfleet , d. d. dean of st. pauls , folio . irenicum , a weapon-salve for the churches wounds : quarto origines sacrae , or , a rational account of the grounds of christian faith , as to the truth and divine authority of the scriptures , and matters therein contained : quarto . the unreasonableness of separation , or an impartial account of the history , nature and pleas of the present separation from the communion of the church of england ; to which several late letters are annexed of eminent protestant divines abroad concerning the nature of our differences , and the way to compose them : quarto . a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it , in answer to some papers of a revolted protestant ; wherein a particular account is given of the fanaticism and divisions of that church : octavo . an answer to several late treatises occasioned by a book entituled , a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it ; the first part : octavo . a second discourse in vindication of the protestant grounds of faith , against the pretence of infallibility in the roman church , in answer to the guide in controversie , by r. h. protestancy without principles , and reason , and religion ; or the certain rule of faith , by e. w. with a particular enquiry into the miracles of the roman church : octavo . an answer to mr. cressy's epistle apologetical to a person of honour , touching his vindication of dr. stillingfleet : octavo . a defence of the discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , in answer to a book entituled , catholicks no idolaters : octavo . several conferences between a romish priest , a fanatick chaplain , and a divine of the church of england ; being a full answer to the late dialogues of t. g. octavo . the grand question concerning the bishops right to vote in parliament in cases capital , stated and argued , from the parliament rolls and the history of former times ; with an enquiry into their peerage , and the three estates in parliament : octavo . a letter to mr. g , giving a true account of a late conference at the d. of pauls . a second letter to mr. g. in answer to two letters lately published concerning the conference at the d. of pauls . a discourse concerning the nature and grounds of the certainty of faith , in answer to j. s. his catholick letters . by edward stillingfleet , d. d. dean of st. pauls . the council of trent examined and disproved by catholick tradition in the main points in controversie between us and the church of rome ; with a particular account of the times and occasions of introducing them . part i. to which a preface is prefixed concerning the true sense of the council of trent , and the notion of transubstantiation . by ed. stillingfleet , d. d. dean of st. pauls . the rule of faith : or an answer to the treatise of mr. j. s. entituled , sure footing , &c. by john tillotson d. d. to which is adjoyned , a reply to mr. j. s.'s third appendix , &c. by edward stillingfleet , d. d. octavo . sermons preached upon several occasions , by edward stillingfleet , d. d. dean of st. paul's , not yet collected into a volume . the reformation justified in a sermon preached at guild-hall chappel , sept. . . before the lord mayor , &c. upon acts xxiv . . a sermon preached nov. . . at st. margarets westminster , upon matt. vii . , . a sermon preached before the king at whitehall , feb. ▪ / . upon heb. iii. . a sermon preached on the fast-day , nov. . . at st. margarets westminster , before the honourable house of commons , upon sam. xii . , . a sermon preached before the king at whitehall , march . / . upon matt. x. . the mischief of separation , a sermon preached at guild-hall chappel , may . . before the lord mayor , &c. upon phil. iii. . protestant charity ; a sermon preached at s. sepulchres church on tuesday in easter-week , . before the lord mayor , &c. upon galat. vi. . of the nature of superstition ; a sermon preached at st. dunstans west , march . . upon col. ii. . a sermon preached before the king , feb. . / . upon job xxiii . . a sermon preached at a publick ordination at st. peter's cornhil , march . / . upon tim. v. . a sermon preached at white-hall , feb. . / . being the first fryday in lent , upon luke xv. . scripture and tradition compared , in a sermon preached at guild-hall chappel , nov. , . upon col. ii. . a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall , feb. . ●●● . upon pet. iv. . the antiquities of notinghamshire , extracted out of records , original evidences , leiger-books , and other manuscripts and authentick authorities , beautified with maps , prospects and portraictures ; by robert thoroton , m. d. folio . a discourse concerning the nature of idolatry ; in which a late authors true and only notion of idolatry is considered and confuted . quarto . proposals tendered to the consideration of both houses of parliament , for uniting the protestant interest for the present , and preventing divisions for the future ; together with the declaration of king charles ii. concerning ecclesiastical affairs ; and some proposals of terms of union between the church of england and dissenters ; long since published by the reverend dean of st. paul's : quarto . protestant certainty ; or , a short treatise , shewing how a protestant may be well assured of the articles of his faith : quarto . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e inst. f. . inst. f. . in b●blioth . cotton . sand. de schif . . . bract. l. . c. . flet. l. . c. . c. . c. . sect . . defence of ecclesiastical commission , p. , . littleton's rep. . stamford , l. . f. . malmsb. l. . f. . edd. vit . wilfred . c. . ibid. c. . c. . florent . wigor . f. . spelm. concil . p. . mat. westm. a. g. . florent . p. . mat. westm. a. g. . bed. l. . c. . spelm. p. . chronological vindication . to. i. f. . decem script . f. . a. c. . decem script . p. . spelm. p. . p. . ingulpb , p. . c. ingulph . ib. c. . r. ans. to coke's th rep. c. . n. . hob. rep. f. . tortura torti , p. . elenebus refut . tort. torti , p. . c. mart. becpro tort. torti , c. . p. . p. . p. . mason , de minist . angl. . . c. . p. . apology , &c. f. . bramhal's works , p. . p. . covarruvias pract. quaest. c. . n. . salgado , de regia prot. part . c. . n. . pasq. recher . l. . c. . hoveden . f. . . eadmer . f. . hoveden , f. . eadm . f. . selden . ad eadm . f. . eadm . f. . f. , . . id. f. , f. , hen. hunt. l. . f. . . coke inst. f. . mat. wesim. f. . bract. l. . p. . c. . l. assis. . e. . pl. . brook tit. pr. pl. . covarruv . peaut . q. c. . n. , . jus belgar . p. . cod. fab. ad tit. cod. de appel . ab abus . def. , p. . covarr . prat. q. . n. . stat. polon . p. , . pre. de lihertes de l' eglis . gal. vol. . c. . claus. e. . placit . parl. e. . f. placit . parl. e. . f. . claus. . e. . m. . e. . tit. e. . com . . lomed . de exempt . c. . n. . chart. . job . m. . pat. . h. . m. . hoveden , f. . bracton l. . c. . n. . flet. l. . c. . n. . brit. c. . horn. ch . . sect. . c. . q. . n. , . c. clerici de judiciis . c. cum terra declect . c. & ult . de consuet . de multa de prabend . c. innotuit de elect. mat. paris , ad a. d. . matt. wesim. ad a. d. . matt. paris , a. d. . p. . a. d. . p. . matt. paris , a. d. . p. . lib. diurnus pontif. . ferrand . vasq. cont. fret . l. . c. . n. . pet. de marca , de concord . sacerd . & imperii , l. . c. . n. . baldus , in c. . §. siquis vero de pace const. in l. digna vox . in l. . f. de const. princip . jaeobat . de conciliis . l. . f. . c. hob. r. f. . c. . q. . sect . nisi rigor . praxis dispens . apostolicarum auctore pyrrho corrado . c. . q. . c. petiisti . ivo epist. bernard de consider . ad eugenium , l. . bernard . epist. . suarez de legibus , l. . c. , . vaugbans rep. f. . suar. c. . n. . n. . c. . n. . n. . n. . vasq. . . disp. . c. . n. . vaugh. rep. f. . grot. de aquit . indulg . & facilitate , c. . n. suarez de leg . l. . c. . n. . vasquez , . disp . . c. . pusendorf de jure naturae , & gent. l. . c. . n. . rot. parl. r. . n. . n. . rot. parl. . r. . n. . rot. parl. r. . n. . rot. parl. r. . n. . rot. parl. h. . n. . rot. parl. h. . n. . n. . rot. parl. h. . n. . rot. parl. ib. rot. parl. h. . n. . short account , p. ▪ rushworth's collections , vol. . p. . vaugh. rep. f. . s. . f. . f. , f. . f. . f. . short account , p. . v. r. f. . bract. l. c. . n. . f. , f. . short account , p. . r. . r. f. . inst. . inst. . inst. . inst. . short account , p. . p. . rep. dionys. halyc . arn. l. . bract. l. ● , ● . , c. . . l. . c. . n. . fortescue , . c. . f. . c. . f. . c. . . c. . f. . matt. paris , f. . basel . pontius de matr. l. . de dispensat . c. . n. . sanchez de matr . l. . dispens . c. . n. . buxtorff . in auream bullam , c. . sect . . gail . observ . l. . obs . . n. job . wolfg. textor . de jure gent. c. . n. . bellug . spic . princ. rubr . . n. . hier. grat. cons. . n. . rol. a valle , cons. . n. . vol. . celsus hugo , de clausulis , n. . eadmer . f. , . f. , . hunt. f. . hoveden , f. , , . k. james his premon . p. . visitatorial power , &c. p. . p. . vindication eccles. com. p. . co. . r. f. . cr. f. . moor , f. . noy , f. . p. . statut. pro clero . visitatorial power , &c. p. . assurance of abby-lands , p. , . visitatorial power , &c. p. , . p. . p. , . defence . p. rep. angl. l. . c. . instit. . cottons abr. p. . mod. rep. f. . dier , f. . p. . p. . visitatorial power , p. . king james his works , p. . inst. f. . bract. . de excep . c. . l. . c. . n. . l. . de exc. c. . inst. f. . mirror de justic . c. . §. . l. . de action c. . n. . l. . c. . n. . p. . the mischief of separation a sermon preached at guild-hall chappel, may . mdclxxx. being the first sunday in easter-term, before the lord mayor, &c. / by edw. stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : , : , : ) the mischief of separation a sermon preached at guild-hall chappel, may . mdclxxx. being the first sunday in easter-term, before the lord mayor, &c. / by edw. stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed for henry mortlock, at the phoenix in st. pauls church-yard, and at the white hart in westminster hall, london : . reproductions of originals in:duke university library (reel : ), henry e. huntington library and art gallery (reel : ), and university of illinois (urbana-champaign campus. library (reel : ). copies are incorrectly identified on film at reel : (as s a) and reel : (as s variant). created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t. -- philippians iii, -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - ali jakobson sampled and proofread - ali jakobson text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion clayton mayor . martis quarto die maij . annoque regis caroli secundi , angliae , &c. xxxii . this court doth earnestly desire the reverend d r. stillingfleet , dean of s t. pauls to print his sermon preached at the guild-hall chappel on sunday morning last , with what further he had prepared to deliver at that time . wagstaff . the mischief of separation . a sermon preached at guild-hall chappel , may ii. mdclxxx . being the first sunday in easter-term , before the lord mayor , &c. by edw. stillingfleet , d. d. dean of s t. paul's , and chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london , printed for henry mortlock , at the phoenix in st. pauls church-yard , and at the white hart in westminster hall. . to the right honourable s r. robert clayton lord mayor of the city of london . my lord , in obedience to your lordships order i now present to your hands , not only the sermon you lately heard , but those additions , which the straits of time would not then permit me to deliver . in all which , i was so far from intending to stir up the magistrates and judges to a persecution of dissenters , as some ill men have reported , that my only design was to prevent any occasion of it , by finding out a certain foundation for a lasting union among our selves . which is impossible to be attained , till men are convinced of the evil and danger of the present separation ; it being carried on by such principles as not only overthrow the present constitution of our church , but any other whatsoever . for , if it be lawful to separate on a pretence of greater purity , where there is an agreement in doctrine , and the substantial parts of worship , as is acknowledged in our case ; then a bare difference of opinion as to some circumstances of worship and the best constitution of churches will be sufficient ground to break communion and to set up new churches : which considering the great variety of mens fancies about these matters , is to make an infinite divisibility in churches , without any possible stop to farther separation . but , if after themselves are pleased with condescensions to their own minds , any think it fit that others should be tied up , notwithstanding their dissatisfaction ; the world will judge it too great partiality in them to think that none ought to separate but themselves , and that the same reason will hold against themselves in the judgement of others ; it thereby appearing , that it is not uniformity they dislike , but that they do not prescribe the terms of it . but , my lord , i intend not to argue the case of separation here , ( which is at large done in the following discourse ) but only to shew , how necessary it was in order to the laying a foundation for peace and unity , to have this matter throughly discussed . and if once the people be brought to understand and practise their duty as to communion with our churches , other difficulties which obstruct our union will be more easily removed . i have endeavoured to pursue my design in a way suitable to the nature of it , without sharp and provoking reflections on the persons of any ; which often set friends at distance , but never reconciled or convinced adversaries . however , i must expect the censures of such who either make our divisions , or make use of them for their own ends : but i am contented to be made a sacrifice , if thereby i might close up the breaches among us . god almighty bless this great city and your lordships care in the government of it ; and grant that in this our day , we may yet know the things that belong to our peace , and to the preservation of the true protestant religion among us . i am , my lord , your lordships most faithful and obedient servant , edward stillingfleet . phil. iii. . nevertheless , whereto we have already attained , let us walk by the same rule , let us mind the same things . although the christian religion doth lay the greatest obligations on mankind to peace and unity , by the strictest commands , the highest examples , and the most prevailing arguments ; yet so much have the passions and interests of men overswai'd the sense of their duty , that as nothing ought to be more in our wishes , so nothing seems more remote from our hopes , than the universal peace of the christian world. not that there is any impossibility in the thing , or any considerable difficulty , if all men were such christians as they ought to be ; but as long as men pursue their several factions and designs under the colour and pretence of zeal for religion ; if they did not find names and parties ready framed , that were suitable to their ends , the difference of their designs would make them . so that till mens corruptions are mortified , and their passions subdued to a greater degree than the world hath yet found them , it is in vain to expect a state of peace and tranquillity in the church . we need not go far from home for a sufficient evidence of this ; for although our differences are such as the wiser protestants abroad not only condemn but wonder at them ; yet it hath hitherto puzzled the wisest persons among us to find out wayes to compose them ; not so much from the distance of mens opinions and practices , as the strength of their prejudices and inclinations . what those divisions of reuben of old were , which caused such thoughts and searching of heart , we neither well understand , nor doth it much concern us : but the continuance , if not the widening , of these unhappy breaches among our selves do give just cause for many sad reflections . when neither the miseries we have felt , nor the calamities we fear ; neither the terrible judgements of god upon us , nor the unexpected deliverances vouchsafed to us , nor the common danger we are yet in , have abated mens heats , or allayed their passions , or made them more willing to unite with our established church and religion . but instead of that , some rather stand at a greater distance if not defiance , and seem to entertain themselves with hopes of new revolutions ; others raise fresh calumnies and reproaches , as well as revive and spread abroad old ones ; as though their business were to make our breaches wider , and to exasperate mens spirits against each other ; at such a time , when reason and common security , and above all our religion obligeth us to follow after the things that make for peace , and things wherewith one may edifie another ; and not such as tend to our mutual destruction ; as most certainly our divisions and animosities do . yet all parties pretend to a zeal for peace , so they may have it in their own way ; by which it appears that it is not peace they aim at but victory ; nor unity so much as having their own wills . those of the roman church make great boasts of their unity and the effectual means they have to preserve it ; but god deliver us from such cruel wayes of peace , and such destructive means of unity as treachery and assassinations , and an inquisition . their feet are swift to shed blood ; destruction and misery are in their wayes ; and the way of peace they have not known . but it were happy for us , if all those who agree in renouncing the errors and corruptions of the roman church , could as easily join together in the great duties of our common religion , that is , in our prayers , and praises , and sacraments , and all solemn acts of divine worship . for this would not only take off the reproach of our adversaries , who continually upbraid us with our schisms and separations , but it would mightily tend to abate mens passions , and to remove their prejudices , and to dispose their inclinations , and thereby lay a foundation for a blessed union among our selves . which would frustrate the great design of our enemies upon us , who expect to see that religion destroyed by our own folly , which they could not otherwise hope to accomplish by their utmost care and endeavour . and we may justly hope for a greater blessing of god upon us , when we offer up our joint prayers and devotions to him , lifting up , as st. paul speaks , holy hands without wrath and disputing . this is therefore a thing of so great consequence to our peace and union , that tends so much to the honour of god , and our common safety and preservation ; that no person who hath any real concernment for these things , can deny it to be not only just and fitting , but in our circumstances necessary to be done , if it can be made appear to be lawful , or that they can do it with a good conscience . and this is the subject i design to speak to at this time ; and for that purpose have made choise of these words of the apostle , nevertheless , whereto we have already attained , let us walk by the same rule , let us mind the same things . for our better understanding the full scope and meaning of the apostle in these words , we are to consider , that an unhappy schism , or wilful breach of the churches unity , had begun in the apostles times , upon the difference that arose concerning the necessity of keeping the law of moses . and that which made the schism the more dangerous , was that the first beginners of it pretended a commission from the apostles themselves at ierusalem , and were extreamly busie and industrious to gain and keep up a party to themselves in the most flourishing churches planted by the apostles . at antioch they bore so great a sway , that st. peter himself complied with them , and not only other iews , but barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation . insomuch that had it not been for the courage and resolution of st. paul , all the gentile christians had been either forced to a compliance with the jews , or to a perpetual schism , ( of which st. peter had been in probability the head , and not of the churches unity if st. paul had not vigorously opposed so dangerous a compliance ) but finding so good success in his endeavours at antioch , he pursues those false apostles , who made it their business to divide and separate the christians from each others communion through all the churches , where they had , or were like to make any great impression . he writes his epistle to the galatians purposely against them ; he warns the christians at rome of them . now i beseech you brethren mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned , and avoid them . and because he had understood they had been busie at philippi to make a party there too , therefore the apostle to prevent their designs , makes use of this following method . . he exhorts the philippians to an unanimous and constant resolution , in holding fast to the faith of the gospel , in spight of all the threats and malice of their enemies : that ye stand fast in one spirit , with one mind , striving together for the faith of the gospel ; and in nothing terrified by your adversaries . if once the fears of troubles and persecutions make men afraid to own and maintain their religion ; it will be an easie matter for their enemies first to divide , and then to subdue them . but their courage and unanimity in a good cause baffles the attempts of the most daring adversaries , and makes them willing to retreat when they see they can neither disunite them nor make them afraid . . he beseeches them in the most vehement and affectionate manner , not to give way to any differences or divisions among them , if there be therefore any consolation in christ , if any comfort of love , if any fellowship of the spirit , if any bowels and mercies ; fulfil ye my joy , that ye be like minded , having the same love ; being of one accord , of one mind . as though he had said unto them , i have seen the miserable effects of divisions in other churches already ; how our religion hath been reproached , the gospel hindred , and the cross of christ rendred of little or no effect by reason of them ; let me therefore intreat you , if you have any regard to the peace and welfare of your own souls ; if you have any sense of your duty you owe to one another as members of the same body ; if you have any tenderness or pity towards me , avoid the first tendencies to any breaches among you ; entertain no unjust suspicions or jealousies of each other , shew all the kindness you are able to your fellow members ; live as those that are acted by the same soul ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) carry on the same design ; and as much as possible prevent any differences in opinions amongst you . . he warns them and gives cautious against some persons from whom their greatest danger was , viz. such as pretended a mighty zeal for the law : and very well understanding the mischief of their designs under their specious pretences , he bestows very severe characters upon them , vers . . beware of dogs , beware of evil workers , beware of the concision . all which characters relate to the breaches and divisions which they made in the christian churches ; which like dogs they did tear in pieces , and thereby did unspeakable mischief , and so were evil workers ; and by the concision st. chrysostom understands such a cutting in pieces as tends to the destruction of a thing ; and therefore , saith he , the apostle called them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : because they endeavoured to cut in pieces , and thereby to destroy the church of god. but lest they should give out that st. paul spoke this out of a particular pique he had taken up against the law of moses , he declares that as to the spiritual intention and design of the law it was accomplished in christians , vers . . for we are the circumcision which worship god in the spirit , and rejoyce in christ iesus , and have no confidence in the flesh . and for his own part , he had as much reason to glory in legal priviledges as any of them all , vers . , , . but the excellency of the gospel of christ had so prevailed upon his mind , that he now despised the things he valued before , and made it his whole business to attain to the glorious reward which this religion promiseth . this he pursues from vers . , to vers . . . having done this , he perswades all good christians to do as he did , vers . . let us therefore , as many as be perfect , be thus minded . but because many disputes and differences as to opinion and practice might happen among them , he therefore lays down two rules for them to govern themselves by . . if any happen'd to differ from the body of christians they lived with , they should do it with great modesty and humility , not breaking out into factions and divisions , but waiting for farther information , which they may expect that god will give upon a diligent and sober use of the best means ; and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded , god shall reveal even this unto you . by leaving them to gods immediate care for farther illumination , he doth not bid them depend upon extraordinary revelation ; but requires them to wait upon god in his own way , without proceeding with the false apostles to the wayes of faction and separation , and in the mean time to go as far as they could . . for those who were come to a firmness and settlement of judgement upon the christian principles , he charges them by all means to preserve unity and peace among themselves . whereto we have already attained , let us walk by the same rule , let us mind the same things . wherein the apostle supposes two things . i. the necessity of one fixed and certain rule , notwithstanding the different attainments among christians . nevertheless , whereto we have already attained , let us walk by the same rule . ii. the duty and obligation which lies upon the best christians to observe it . he doth not speak to the ignorant and unthinking multitude ; not to the licentious rabble , nor to the carnal and worldly church ; which some think are only desirous of uniformity ; but to the very best christians ; to those who had got the start of others ( as the words here signifie ) that they would be an example of peace and unity to their brethren . i. the necessity of one fixed and certain rule , notwithstanding the different attainments , of christians . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which phrase seems to be a continuation of the former allusion to a race . for as eustathius observes , the first thing the greeks were wont to do as to their exercises , was to circumscribe the bounds within which they were to be performed . that which fixed and determined these limits was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by the greeks , and regula and lineae by the latins : thence transilire lineas in cicero is to commit a fault , to break the bounds within which we are confined . all the question is , what the apostle means by this rule , whether only a rule of charity and mutual forbearance , with a liberty of different practice ; or such a rule which limits and dermines the manner of practice . it cannot be the former , because that is the case , the apostle had spoken to just before . if in any thing ye be otherwise minded ; therefore now subjoining this with respect to those who had gone beyond them , he doth imply such an agreement and uniformity of practice as doth lie in observing the same standing rule . for which we must consider , that they understood already what orders and directions he had given them when a church was first formed among them ; and therefore when the apostle mentions a rule without declaring what it was , we have reason to believe , it was such a rule which they very well knew , which he had given to them before . so we find elsewhere the apostle refers to such rules of government and order , which he had given to other churches , and were already received and practised among them . for the apostles did not write their epistles for the founding of churches , but they were already in being ; only they took notice of any disorders among them , and reformed abuses , and left some things to their own directions , when they should come among them . and the rest will i set in order when i come . as the lord hath called every one , so let him walk ; and so ordain i in all the churches . which shews that the apostles did not leave all persons to act as they judged fit , but did make rules determining their practice , and obliging them to uniformity therein . for might not men pretend that these were not things in themselves necessary , and might be scrupled by some persons , and therefore were not fit to be imposed upon any ? but i do not find that the apostles on this account did forbear giving rules in such cases , and to oblige christians to observe them ; and that not on the meer authority of apostles , but as governours of churches , whose business it is to take care of the welfare and preservation of them . there are many things which seem very little and inconsiderable in themselves , whose consequence and tendency is very great ; and the wisdom of governours lies in preventing the danger of little things , and keeping the zeal of well-meaning persons within its due bounds . for , those who are engaged below in the valley , fighting in small parties , and pursuing their advantages , do run into their enemies camp before they are aware of it , may receive an unexpected check from their commanders in chief , who from the higher ground espie the hazard they are in by their over-forwardness , and the arts which their enemies use in drawing them into little companies to fight separately , and the danger they may thereby bring upon the whole army ; and therefore send them a peremptory order to give over fighting by themselves and make good their retreat into the body of the army : they wonder , they complain , they think themselves hardly used ; but no understanding man blames their generals who regard their safety more than they do themselves , and know the allowing them the liberty they desire , would endanger the destruction of them all . the wisdom and conduct of governours , is quite another thing from the zeal and courage of inferiour persons ; who knowing their own resolution and integrity , think much to be controlled ; but those who stand upon higher ground and see further than they can do , must be allowed a better capacity of judging what makes for the safety of the whole , than they can have : and such things which they look on in themselves , and therefore think them mean and trifling , the other look upon them in their consequence , and the influence they may have upon the publick safety . it were extreamly desirable that all good and useful men should enjoy as much satisfaction as might be , but if it cannot be attained without running great hazards of unsettling all , it is then to be considered , whether the general safety or some mens particular satisfaction be the more desirable . and this is that , which the example of the apostles themselves gives us reason to consider , for although there were many doubts and scruples in their times about several rites and customes , yet the apostles did give rules in such cases , and bind christians to observe them ; as we find in that famous decree made upon great deliberation , in a council of the apostles at ierusalem ; wherein they determined those things which they knew were then scrupled , and continued so to be afterwards , whereever the judaizing christians prevailed . but notwithstanding all their dissatisfaction , the apostles continued the same rule ; and s. paul here requires the most forward christians to mind their rule , and to preserve peace and unity among themselves . but doth not s. paul in the th chapter of his epistle to the romans lay down quite another rule , viz. only of mutual forbearance in such cases , where men are unsatisfied in conscience ? i answer , that the apostle did act like a prudent governour , and in such a manner , as he thought , did most tend to the propagation of the gospel , and the good of particular churches . in some churches that consisted most of iews , as the church of rome at this time did , and where they did not impose the necessity of keeping the law on the gentile christians ( as we do not find they did at rome ) the apostle was willing to have the law buried as decently , and with as little noise as might be ; and therefore in this case , he perswades both parties to forbearance and charity , in avoiding the judging and censuring one another , since they had an equal regard to the honour of god in what they did . but in those churches , where the false apostles made use of this pretence , of the levitical law being still in force , to divide the churches , and to separate the communion of christians ; there the apostle bids them beware of them , and their practices ; as being of a dangerous and pernicious consequence . so that the preserving the peace of the church , and preventing separation was the great measure , according to which , the apostle gave his directions ; and that makes him so much insist on this advice to the philippians , that whatever their attainments in christianity were , they should walk by the same rule , and mind the same things . ii. we take notice of the duty and obligation that lies upon the best christians , to walk by the same rule , to mind the same things . from whence arise two very considerable enquiries . . how far the obligation doth extend to comply with an established rule , and to preserve the peace of the church we live in ? . what is to be done , if men cannot come up to that rule ? for the apostle speaks only of such as have attained so far ; whereto we have already attained , let us walk by the same rule . . how far the obligation doth extend to comply with an established rule , and to preserve the peace of the church we live in ? this i think the more necessary to be spoken to , because i cannot perswade my self that so many scrupulous and conscientious men as are at this day among us would live so many years in a known sin ; i. e. in a state of separation from the communion of a church , which in conscience they thought themselves obliged to communicate with . it must be certainly some great mistake in their judgements must lead them to this ; ( for i am by no means willing to impute it to passion and evil designs ) and out of the hearty desire i have , if possible , to give satisfaction in this matter , i shall endeavour to search to the bottom of this dangerous mistake , to which we owe so much of our present distractions and fears . but for the better preventing all mis-understanding the design of my discourse , i desire it may be considered . that i speak not of the separation or distinct communion of whole churches from each other ; which according to the scripture , antiquity and reason , have a just right and power to govern and reform themselves . by whole churches , i mean , the churches of such nations , which upon the decay of the roman empire , resumed their just right of government to themselves , and upon their owning christianity , incorporated into one christian society , under the same common ties and rules of order and government . such as the church of macedonia would have been , if from being a roman province it had become a christian kingdom , and the churches of thessalonica , philippi and the rest had united together . and so the several churches of the lydian or proconsular asia , if they had been united in one kingdom , and governed by the same authority , under the same rules , might have been truly called the lydian church . just as several families uniting make one kingdom , which at first had a distinct and independent power , but it would make strange confusion in the world to reduce kingdoms back again to families , because at first they were made up of them . thus national churches are national societies of christians , under the same laws of government and rules of worship . for the true notion of a church is no more than of a society of men united together for their order and government according to the rules of the christian religion . and it is a great mistake , to make the notion of a church barely to relate to acts of worship ; and consequently that the adequate notion of a church , is an assembly for divine worship ; by which means they appropriate the name of churches to particular congregations . whereas , if this held true , the church must be dissolved assoon as the congregation is broken up ; but if they retain the nature of a church , when they do not meet together for worship , then there is some other bond that unites them ; and whatever that is , it constitutes the church . and if there be one catholick church consisting of multitudes of particular churches consenting in one faith ; then why may there not be one national church from the consent in the same articles of religion , and the same rules of government and order of worship ? nay , if it be mutual consent and agreement which makes a church , then why may not national societies agreeing together in the same faith , and under the same government and discipline , be as truly and properly a church , as any particular congregation ? for , is not the kingdom of france as truly a kingdom consisting of so many provinces ; as the kingdom of ivetot once was in normandy , which consisted of a very small territory ? among the athenians , from whom the use of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 came into the christian church , it was taken for such an assembly , which had the power of governing and determining matters of religion as well as the affairs of state. for the senate of being distributed into fifties according to the number of the tribes , which succeeded by course through the year ; and was then called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; every one of these had 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 regular assemblies ; in the last of which , an account of the sacrifices was taken and of other matters which concerned religion ; as in the comitia calata at rome . from whence we may observe , that it was not the meeting of one of the single tribes , was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but the general meeting of the magistrates of the whole city and the people together . and in this sense i shall shew afterwards , the word was used in the first ages of the christian church , as it comprehended the ecclesiastical governours and the people of whole cities ; and why many of these cities being united under one civil government , and the same rules of religion should not be called one national church , i cannot understand . which makes me wonder at those who say they cannot tell what we mean by the church of england ; in short we mean , that society of christian people which in this nation are united under the same profession of faith , the same laws of government , and rules of divine worship . and every church thus constituted , we do assert to have a just right of governing it self , and of reforming errors in doctrine and corruptions in worship . on which ground , we are acquitted from the imputation of schism in the separation from the roman church , for we only resume our just rights , as the brittish nation did , as to civil government , upon the ruine of the roman empire . . i do not intend to speak of the terms upon which persons are to be admitted among us to the exercise of the function of the ministry ; but of the terms of lay-communion ; i. e. those which are necessary for all persons to joyn in our prayers and sacraments and other offices of divine worship . i will not say , there hath been a great deal of art used to confound these two , ( and it is easie to discern to what purpose it is ; ) but i dare say , the peoples not understanding the difference of these two cases hath been a great occasion of the present separation . for in the judgement of some of the most impartial men of the dissenters at this day , although they think the case of the ministers very hard on the account of subscriptions and declarations required of them ; yet they confess very little is to be said on the behalf of the people , from whom none of those things are required . so that the people are condemned in their separation , by their own teachers ; but how they can preach lawfully to a people who commit a fault in hearing them , i do not understand . . i do not confound bare suspending communion in some particular rites , which persons do modestly scruple , and using it in what they judge to be lawful ; with either total , or at least ordinary forbearance of communion in what they judge to be lawful ; and proceeding to the forming of separate congregations , i. e. under other teachers , and by other rules than what the established religion allows . and this is the present case of separation which i intend to consider , and to make the sinfulness and mischief of it appear . but that i may do it more convincingly , i will not make the difference wider than it is ; but lay down impartially the state of the present controversie between us and our dissenting brethren , about communion with our churches . . they unanimously confess they find no fault with the doctrine of our church , and can freely subscribe to all the doctrinal articles ; nay they profess greater zeal for many of them , than , say they , some of our own preachers do . well then ! the case is vastly different as to their separation from us , and our separation from the church of rome ; for we declare , if there were nothing else amiss among them , their doctrines are such , as we can never give our assent to . . * they generally yield , that our parochial churches are true churches ; and it is with these their communion is required . they do not deny that we have all the essentials of true churches , true doctrine , true sacraments , and an implicite covenant between pastors and people . and some of the most eminent of the congregational way have declared ; that they look upon it as an unjust calumny cast upon them , that they look on our churches as no true churches . . many of them declare , that they hold communion with our churches to be lawful . yea we are told in print , by one then present , that a. d. . divers of their preachers in london met to consider , how far it was lawful , or their duty to communicate with the parish-churches where they lived , in the liturgy and sacraments ; and that the relator brought in twenty reasons to prove that it is a duty to some to join with some parish-churches three times a year in the lords supper ; after he had not only proved it lawful to use a form of prayer , and to join in the use of our liturgy , but in the participation of the sacrament with us ; and no one of the brethren , he adds , seemed to dissent , but to take the reasons to be valid . such another meeting , we are told , they had after the plague and fire , at which they agreed that communion with our churches was in it self lawful and good . who could have imagined otherwise , than that after the weight of so many reasons , and such a general consent among them , they should have all joyned with us in what themselves judged to be lawful , and in many cases a duty ? but instead of this , we have rather since that time found them more inclinable to courses of separation , filling the people with greater prejudices against our communion , and gathering them into fixed and separate congregations ; which have proceeded to the choice of new pastors upon the death of old ones ; and except some very few , scarce any , either of their preachers or people here , come ordinarily to the publick congregations . and this is that which at present we lament as a thing which unavoidably tends to our common ruine , if not in time prevented ; for by this means the hearts of the people are alienated from each other , who apprehend the differences to be much greater than their teachers will allow , when they are put to declare their minds ; and our common enemies take as much advantage from our differences , as if they were really far greater than they are . but you may ask , what then are the grounds of the present separation ? for that there is such a thing is discernible by all , but what the reasons of it are is hard to understand after these concessions ; yet it is not conceivable that conscientious men can in such a juncture of affairs persist in so obstinate and destructive a course of separation , unless they had something at last fit to answer the twenty reasons of their own brethren against it ? i have endeavoured to give my self satisfaction in a matter of so great moment to the peace and preservation of this church , and consequently of the protestant religion among us ; which i never expect to see survive the destruction of the church of england . and the utmost i can find in the best writers of the several parties , amounts to these two things . . that although they are in a state of separation from our church , yet this separation is no sin . . that a state of separation would be a sin , but notwithstanding their meeting in different places , yet they are not in a state of separation . and herein lies the whole strength of the several pleas at this day made use of to justifie the separate congregations : both which i shall now examine . . some plead , that it is true they have distinct and separate communions from us , but it is no sin , or culpable separation so to have . for , say they , our lord christ instituted only congregational churches , or particular assemblies for divine worship , which having the sole church power in themselves , they are under no obligation of communion with other churches , but only to preserve peace and charity with them . and to this doctrine , others of late approach so near , that they tell us , that to devise new species of churches ( beyond parochial or congregational ) without gods authority , and to impose them on the world ( yea in his name ) and call all dissenters schismaticks , is a far worse usurpation , than to make or impose new ceremonies or liturgies . which must suppose congregational churches to be so much the institution of christ , that any other constitution above these is both unlawful and insupportable . which is more than the independent brethren themselves do assert . but to clear the practice of separation from being a sin on this account , two things are necessary to be done . . to prove that a christian hath no obligation to external communion beyond a congregational church . . that it is lawful to break off communion with other churches , to set up a particular independent church . . that a christian hath no obligation to external communion beyond a particular congregational church . they do not deny , that men by baptism are admitted into the catholick visible church as members of it ; and that there ought to be a sort of communion by mutual love among all that belong to this body : and to do them right , they declare that they look upon the church of england , or the generality of the nation professing christianity , to be as sound and healthful a part of the catholick church , as any in the world. but then they say , communion in ordinances must be only in such churches as christ himself instituted by unalterable rules , which were only particular and congregational churches . granting this to be true , how doth it hence appear not to be a sin to separate from our parochial churches ; which according to their own concessions have all the essentials of true churches ? and what ground can they have to separate and divide those churches , which for all that we can see , are of the same nature with the churches planted by the apostles at corinth , philippi or thessalonica ? but i must needs say further , i have never yet seen any tolerable proof , that the churches planted by the apostles were limited to congregations . it is possible , at first , there might be no more christians in one city than could meet in one assembly for worship ; but where doth it appear , that when they multiplied into more congregations , they did make new and distinct churches , under new officers with a separate power of government ? of this , i am well assured , there is no mark or footstep in the new testament , or the whole history of the primitive church . i do not think it will appear credible to any considerate man , that the christians in the church of ierusalem made one stated and fixed congregation for divine worship ; not if we make all the allowances for strangers which can be desired : but if this were granted , where are the unalterable rules that assoon as the company became too great for one particular assembly , they must become a new church under peculiar officers and an independent authority ? it is very strange , that those who contend so much for the scriptures being a perfect rule of all things pertaining to worship and discipline , should be able to produce nothing in so necessary a point . if that of which we read the clearest instances in scripture , must be the standard of all future ages , much more might be said for limiting churches to private families , than to particular congregations . for , do we not read of the church that was in the house of priscilla and aquila at rome ; of the church that was in the house of nymphas at colosse ; and in the house of philemon at laodicea ? why then should not churches be reduced to particular families , when by that means they may fully enjoy the liberty of their consciences , and avoid the scandal of breaking the laws ? but if , notwithstanding such plain examples , men will extend churches to congregations of many families ; why may not others extend churches to those societies which consist of many congregations ? especially considering , that the apostles when they instituted churches , did appoint such officers in them , as had not barely a respect to those already converted , but to as many as by their means should be added to the church ; as clemens affirms in his epistle ; the apostles , saith he , went about in cities and countries preaching the gospel ; and appointed their first-fruits , having made a spiritual trial of them , for bishops and deacons , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of those who were to believe . from hence the number of converts were looked on as an accession to the original church , and were under the care and government of the bishop and presbyters , who were first settled there . for although when the churches increased , the occasional meetings were frequent in several places ; yet still there was but one church , and one altar , and one baptistry , and one bishop , with many presbyters assisting him . and this is so very plain in antiquity , as to the churches planted by the apostles themselves in several parts , that none but a great stranger to the history of the church can ever call it in question . i am sure calvin , a person of great and deserved reputation among our brethren , looks upon this as a matter out of dispute among learned men , that a church did not only take in the christians of a whole city , but of the adjacent country too : and the contrary opinion is a very novel and late fancy of some among us , and hath not age enough to plead a prescription . it is true , after some time in the greater cities , they had distinct places allotted , and presbyters fixed among them ; and such allotments were called titles at rome , and laurae at alexandria , and parishes in other places ; but these were never thought then to be new churches , or to have any independent government in themselves ; but were all in subjection to the bishop and his college of presbyters , of which multitudes of examples might be brought from most authentick testimonies of antiquity ; if a thing so evident needed any proof at all . and yet this distribution even in cities was so uncommon in those elder times , that epiphanius takes notice of it as an extraordinary thing at alexandria ; and therefore it is probably supposed there was no such thing in all the cities of creet in his time . and if we look over the antient canons of the church , we shall find two things very plain in them , ( . ) that the notion of a church was the same with that of a diocese ; or such a number of christians as were under the inspection of a bishop . ( . ) that those presbyters who rejected the authority of their bishop , or affected separate meetings , where no fault could be found with the doctrine of a church , were condemned of schism . so the followers of eustathius sebastenus , who withdrew from the publick congregations on pretence of greater sanctity and purity , in paphlagonia , were condemned by the council at gangrae ; so were those who separated from their bishops , though otherwise never so orthodox , by the council at constantinople , and the council at carthage ; wherein before st. cyprian had so justly complained of the schism of felicissimus and his brethren , who on pretence of some disorders in the church of carthage had withdrawn to the mountains ; and there laid the foundation of the novatian schism . but when false doctrine was imposed on churches , as by the arian bishops at antioch , then the people were excused in their separation ; so at rome when felix was made bishop ; and at sirmium when photinus published his heresie ; but i do not remember one instance in antiquity , wherein separation from orthodox bishops and setting up meetings without their authority and against their consent , was acquitted from the sin of schism . indeed some bishops have sometimes refused communion with others upon great misdemeanors ; as theognostus and st. martin with the ithacian party on the account of the death of priscillian ; but this doth not at all reach to the case of presbyters separating from bishops , with whom they agree in the same faith. the followers of st. chrysostom , did , i confess , continue their separate meetings after his banishment , and the coming in of arsacius : but although they withdrew in his time , being unsatisfied in the manner of his choice ; yet when atticus restored the name of st. chrysostom to the diptychs of the church , they returned to communion with their bishop , as st. chrysostom himself advised them ( as appears by palladius ) which is far from justifying the wilfull separation of presbyters and people from the communion of their bishops , when they do agree in the same faith. . but suppose the first churches were barely congregational , by reason of the small number of believers at that time , yet what obligation lies upon us to disturb the peace of the church we live in to reduce churches to their infant-state ? they do not think it necessary to reduce the first community of goods , which was far more certainly practised , than congregational churches ; they do not think it necessary to wash one anothers feet , although christ did it , and bad his disciples do as he did : they believe that the first civil government was appointed by god himself over families ; do they therefore think themselves bound to overthrow kingdoms to bring things back to their first institution ? if not , why shall the peace of the church be in so much worse a condition than that of the civil-state ? it is very uncertain whether the primitive form were such as they fancy ; if it were , it is more uncertain whether it were not so from the circumstances of the times , than from any institution of christ ; but it is most certainly our duty to preserve peace and unity among christians ; and it is impossible so to do if men break all orders in pieces for the fancy they have taken up of a primitive platform . it is a great fault among some who pretend to great niceness in some positive duties , that they have so little regard to comparative duties : for that which may be a duty in one case , when it comes to thwart a greater duty , may be none . this doctrine we learn from our blessed saviour in the case of the obligation of the sabbath ; which he makes to yield to duties of mercy . and can we think that a duty lying upon us , which in our circumstances makes a far greater duty impracticable ? is there any thing christ and his apostles have charged more upon the consciences of all christians , than studying to preserve peace and unity among christians ? this is that we must follow after , even when it seems to fly from us ; this is that , we must apply our minds to , and think it our honour to promote ; this is that which the most perfect christians are the most zealous for ; this is that , for the sake of which we are commanded to practise meekness , humility , patience , self-denial and submission to governours . and after all this , can we imagine the attaining of such an end should depend upon mens conjectures , whether five thousand christians in times of persecution could make one assembly for worship ? or whether all the christians in ephesus or corinth made but one congregation ? on what terms can we ever hope for peace in the church , if such notions as these be ground enough to disturb it ? what stop can be put to schisms and separations , if such pretences as these be sufficient to justifie them ? men may please themselves in talking of preserving peace and love under separate communions ; but our own sad experience shews the contrary ; for as nothing tends more to unite mens hearts than joyning together in the same prayers and sacraments ; so nothing doth more alienate mens affections , than withdrawing from each other into separate congregations . which tempts some to spiritual pride and scorn and contempt of others , as of a more carnal and worldly church than themselves ; and provokes others to lay open the follies , and indiscretions and immoralities of those who pretend to so much purity and spirituality above their brethren . . others confess , that to live in a state of separation from such churches , as many at least of ours are , were a sin ; for they say , that causeless renouncing communion with true churches is schism , especially if it be joyned with setting up anti-churches unwarrantably against them ; but this they deny that they do , although they preach when and where it is forbidden by law ; and worship god , and administer sacraments by other rules and after a different manner than what our church requires . this is not dealing with us with that fairness and ingenuity which our former brethren used ; for they avow the fact of separation , but deny it to be sinful ; these owning it to be sinful , have no other refuge left but to deny the fact , which is evident to all persons . for do they not do the very same things and in the same manner , that the others do ; how comes it then to be separation in some and not in others ? they are very unwilling to confess a separation , because they have formerly condemned it with great severity ; and yet they do the same things for which they charged others as guilty of a sinful separation . for , the assembly of divines urged their dissenting brethren to comply with their rules of church-government , and charged them with schism if they did it not ; whereas they only desired to enjoy such liberty as to their separate congregations , as is now pleaded for by our dissenting brethren . this , say they , would give countenance to a perpetual schism and division in the church , still drawing away some from the churches under the rule , which also would breed irritations between the parties ; and would introduce all manner of confusion . and they thougt it a very unreasonable thing for them to desire distinct and separated congregations , as to those parts of worship where they could joyn in communion with them : and they thought no person was to be indulged as to any error or scruple of conscience ; but with this proviso , that in all other parts of worship they joyn with the congregation wherein they live ; and be under the government to be established . to this the dissenting brethren answered , that such a variation , or forbearance could neither be a schism , nor endanger it ; and that the great cause of schism hath been a strict obligation of all to uniformity ; that as long as in their separate congregations they did practise most of the same things , and the most substantial in their rule , it could not be called a total separation , especially considering , that they professed their churches to be true churches ; and that they had occasional communion with them , which is the very same plea made use of at this day among us . to which the assemblies party smartly replied , that since they acknowledged their churches to be so true , that they could occasionally join in all acts of worship , they conceived they were bound to act with them in joint communion by one common rule , and not by different rules and in separated congregations . and they add , that to leave all ordinary communion in any church with dislike , when opposition or offence offers it self , is to separate from such a church in the scripture sense ; such separation was not in being in the apostles times , unless it were used by false teachers ; all who professed christianity held communion together , as in one church , notwithstanding differences of iudgement , or corruptions in practice ; and that , if they can hold occasional communion without sin , they know no reason why it may not be ordinary without sin too , and then separation would be needless . to which they subjoin these remarkable words , which i heartily wish our brethren at this day would think seriously upon , to separate from those churches ordinarily and visibly with whom occasionally you may joyn without sin , seemth to be a most unjust separation . so that whatever false colours and pretences some men make use of to justifie their present practice , if the judgement of their own brethren may be taken upon the most weighty debate , and most serious deliberation , it is no better than plain and downright separation . and i must needs say , i never saw any cause more weakly defended , no , not that of polygamy and anabaptism , than that of those , who allow it to be lawful to join in communion with us , and yet go about to vindicate the separate meetings among us , from the guilt of a sinful separation . for although they allow our churches to be true , and that it is lawful to communicate with them , which is the most plausible plea they have , this is so far from extenuating , that it doth aggravate the fault ; for as the brethren of the assembly said , though they do not pronounce an affirmative iudgement against us ; yet the very separating is a tacit and practical condemning of our churches , if not as false , yet as impure . but whatever may be said as to other pleas for their present practices , my text seems to afford the strongest of all , viz. that men are to be pressed to go no farther than they have already attained , and not to be strained up to an uniformity beyond the dictates of their consciences , but to be let alone , as the apostle directs in the foregoing verse , if any one be otherwise minded , he must be left to god , and that manifestation of his will , which he will be pleased to give him . the clearing of this will give a full answer to the second enquiry , viz. . what is to be done , if men cannot come up to the rule prescribed . to this therefore i answer in these particulars . . this can never justifie men in not doing what they lawfully may do . for this rule of the apostle makes communion necessary , as far as it is lawful ; and that upon the account of the general obligation lying upon all christians to do what in them lies for preservation of the peace of the church . therefore as far as ye have attained walk by the same rule , do the same things ; which words , saith cajetan , the apostle subjoyns to the former , left the persons he there speaks to should think themselves excused from going as far as they can as to the same rule . which plainly shews that men are bound in conscience to go as far as they can ; and i cannot see how it is consistent with that tenderness of conscience which our brethren pretend to , for so many of them to live so many years in a neglect of that communion with our church , which themselves judge to be lawful . i dare say , if most of the preachers at this day in the separate meetings were soberly asked their judgements , whether it were lawful for the people to joyn with us in the publick assemblies , they would not deny it ; and yet the people that frequent them , generally judge otherwise . for it is not to be supposed , that faction among them should so commonly prevail beyond interest ; and therefore if they thought it were lawful for them to comply with the laws , they would do it . but why then is this kept up as such a mighty secret in the breasts of their teachers ? why do they not preach it to them in their congregations ? is it for fear , they should have none left to preach to ? that is not to be imagined of mortified and conscientious men . is it lest they should seem to condemn themselves , while they preach against separation in a separate congregation ? this , i confess , looks oddly , and the tenderness of a mans mind in such a case , may out of meer shamefacedness keep him from declaring a truth which flies in his face , while he speaks it . is it that they fear the reproaches of the people ? which some few of the most eminent persons among them , have found they must undergo if they touch upon this subject ( for i know not how it comes to pass , that the most godly people among them , can the least endure to be told of their faults . ) but is it not as plainly written by s. paul , if i yet please men i should not be the servant of christ ; as woe be unto me if i preach not the gospel ? if they therefore would acquit themselves like honest and conscientious men , let them tell the people plainly that they look on our churches as true churches , and that they may lawfully communicate with us in prayers and sacraments ; and i do not question but in time , if they find it lawful , they will judge it to be their duty . for it is the apostles command here , whereto we have already attained let us walk by the same rule , let us mind the same things . . if the bare dissatisfaction of mens consciences do justifie the lawfulness of separation , and breaking an established rule , it were to little purpose to make any rule at all . because it is impossible to make any , which ignorant and injudicious men shall not apprehend to be in some thing or other against the dictates of their consciences . but because what we say may not weigh so much with them in this matter , as what was said on this occasion by their own brethren in the assembly , i shall give an account of their iudgement in this matter . the dissenting brethren were not so much wantting to their cause , as not to plead tenderness of conscience with as much advantage and earnestness as any men now can do it . to which they answer , . that though tenderness of conscience may justifie non-communion in the thing scrupled , yet it can never justifie separation . we much doubt , say they , whether such tenderness of conscience , as ariseth out of an opinion , cui potest subesse falsum , ( which may be false ) when the conscience is so tender , that it may be withal an erring conscience , can be a sufficient ground to justifie such a material separation , as our brethren plead for ; for though it may bind , to forbear or suspend the act of communion in that particular wherein men conceive they cannot hold communion without sin ( nothing being to be done contrary unto conscience ) yet it doth not bind to follow such a positive prescript as possibly may be divers from the will and counsel of god , of which kind we conceive this of gathering separated churches out of other true churches to be one . . that it is endless to hope to give satisfation to erring consciences . the grounds , say they , upon which this separation is desired , are such upon which all other possible scruples which erring consciences may in any other cases be subject unto , may claim the priviledge of a like indulgence . and so this toleration being the first , shall indeed but lay the foundation and open the gap , whereat as many divisions in the church , as there may be scruples in the minds of men , shall upon the self same equity be let in . and again , that this will make way for infinite divisions and sub-divisions ; and give countenance to a perpetual schism , and division in the church . . that scruple of conscience is no protection against schism ; no cause of separating ; nor doth it take off causeless separation from being schism , which may arise from errors of conscience as well as carnal and corrupt reasons ; and therefore they conceive the causes of separation must be shewn to be such as ex natura rei will bear it out . . that the apostles notwithstanding the differences of mens iudgements did prescribe rules of uniformity . for , say they , they suppressed the contentions of men by the custome of the churches of god , cor. . . and ordain the same practice in all the churches , notwithstanding our brethrens distinction of difference of light . . cor. . . and did not the apostles bind the burden of some necessary things on the churches , albeit there were in those churches gradual differences of light ? . that the apostle by this rule in the text , did not intend to allow brethren who agree in all substantials of faith and worship , to separate from one another , in those very substantials wherein they agree . is this , say they , to walk by the same rule , and to mind the same things , to separate from churches in those very things wherein we agree with them ? we desire no more of them than we are confident was practised by the saints at philippi , namely to hold practical communion in things wherein they doctrinally agree . . that there is a great deal of difference between tyranny over mens consciences , and rules of uniformity . for the dissenting brethren charged the assembly , with setting up an uniformity for uniformities sake , i. e. affecting uniformity so much , as not to regard mens consciences ; and without respect had to the varieties of light ▪ in matters of a lesser nature ; which , say they , will prove a perfect tyranny , and it is in effect to stretch a low man to the same length with a taller , or to cut a tall man to the stature of one that is low , for uniformities sake . to which the others answer , that they do not desire uniformity for the sake of tyranny , but only for order , and order for edification . but for ought they could perceive , any thing that is one must be judged the foundation of tyranny ( which are their own words . ) as to variety of light , they desired their brethren to answer them in this one thing , whether some must be denied liberty of their conscience in matter of practice , or none ? if none , then , say they , we must renounce our covenant and let in prelacy again ; and all others ways ; if a denial of liberty unto some may be just , then uniformity may be settled notwithstanding variety of lights , without any tyranny at all . as to their similitude , they grant it to be pretty and plausible ; but such arguments are popular and inartificial , having more of flourish than substance in them . for did not they endeavour to raise lower churches to a greater height ? would they permit other church-governments if it were in their power , because men must not for uniformities sake be pared or stretched to the measure of other men ? would they endure the lower suckers at the root of their tree to grow till they had killed the tree it self ? ad populum phaleras . from whence we see the church of england's endeavour after uniformity is acquitted from tyranny over the consciences of men by the judgement of the most learned of the assembly of divines ; for such we do not question they chose to manage this debate , upon which the turn of their whole affairs depended . . a wilful error or mistake of conscience doth by no means excuse from sin . thus if a man think himself bound to divide the church by a sinful separation ; that separation is nevertheless a sin for his thinking himself bound to do it . for s. paul thought himself bound to do many things against the name of jesus of nazareth , yet he calls himself a blasphemer and the greatest of sinners , for what he did under that obligation of conscience . the iews thought themselves bound in conscience to do god service , but it was a horrible mistake , when they took killing the apostles to be any part of it . from whence it appears , that men may do very bad things , and yet think themselves bound in conscience to do them . i do not hence infer that the pretence of conscience is not to be regarded , because it may be abused to so ill purposes ; for no man that hath any conscience will speak against the power of it , and he that declares against it , hath no reason to be regarded in what he saith . but that which ought to be inferred from hence , is , that men ought not to rest satisfied with the present dictates of their consciences , for notwithstanding them , they may commit very great sins . i am afraid , the common mistating the case of an erroneous conscience hath done a great deal of mischief to conscientious men , and betray'd them into great security , while they are assured they do act according to their consciences . for the question is generally put , how far an erroneous conscience doth oblige ? and when men hear that they must not act against their consciences though they be mistaken , they think themselves safe enough , and enquire no further . but if they would consider , that no mans conscience alters the nature of good and evil in things ; that what god hath made a duty or a sin remains so , whatever a mans conscience doth judge concerning them ; that no mans conscience can strictly oblige him either to omit a duty , or to commit a sin ; the utmost resolution of the case comes to this , that a man may be so perplexed and entangled by an erroneous conscience that he may be under a necessity of sinning , if he acts either with or against it . not that god ever puts a man under the necessity of sinning , ( for then it would be no sin to him , if it were unavoidable ) but that by their own neglect and carelesness , without looking after due information , and running on with violent prejudices , which was the case of s. paul and the iews ( and i wish it were not of many christians ) they may make false and rash judgements of things , and so sin either in doing or not doing what their consciences tell them they are bound to do . the most material question then , in the case of an erroneous conscience , is , what error of conscience doth excuse a man from sin in following the dictates of it ? for , if the error be wholly involuntary ; i. e. if it be caused by invincible ignorance , or after using the best means for due information of his conscience , though the act may be a fault in it self , yet it shall not be imputed to him as a sin ; because it wanted the consent of the mind , by which the will is determined ; but if men fall into wilful errors of conscience ; i. e. if they form their iudgements rather by prejudice and passion and interest than from the laws of god or just rules of conscience ; if they do not examine things fairly on both sides , praying for divine direction ; if they have not patience to hear any thing against their opinion , but run on blindly and furiously , they may in so doing act according to their consciences , and yet they may be in as great danger of committing heinous sins as s. paul and the iews were . thus if men through the power of an erroneous conscience may think themselves bound to make schisms and divisions in the church , to disobey laws and to break in pieces the communion of that church , which they are , or ought to be members of , they may satisfie themselves that they pursue their consciences , and yet for want of due care of informing themselves and judging aright , those very actions may be wilful and damnable sins . nothing now remains but to make application of what hath been said to our own case . and that shall be to two sorts of persons , . to those who continue in the communion of our church , . to those who dissent from it . i. to those who continue in the communion of our church . let us walk by the same rule , and mind the same things . let us study the unity and peace , and thereby the honour and safety of it . while we keep to one rule , all people know what it is to be of our church ; if men set up their own fancies above the rule , they charge it with imperfection ; if they do not obey the rule , they make themselves wiser than those that made it . it hath not been either the doctrine or rules of our church which have ever given advantage to the enemies of it ; but the indiscretion of some in going beyond them ; and the inconstancy of others in not holding to them . such is the purity of its doctrine , such the loyalty of its principles , such the wisdom , and order , and piety of its devotions , that none who are true friends to any of these , can be enemies to it . let us take heed we do not give too much occasion to our enemies to think the worse of our church for our sakes . it is easie to observe , that most quarrels relating to constitutions and frames of government are more against person than things ; when they are unsatisfied with their management , then they blame the government ; but if themselves were in place , or those they love and esteem , then the government is a good thing , if it be in good mens hands . thus do mens judgements vary as their interests do . and so as to churches , we find uniformity and order condemned as tyrannical , till men come into power themselves , and then the very same things and arguments are used and thought very good and substantial , which before were weak and sophistical . those who speak now most against the magistrates power in matters of religion had ten substantial reasons for it , when they thought the magistrate on their own side . those who now plead for toleration , did once think it the mother of confusion , the nurse of atheism , the inlet of popery , the common sink of all errors and heresies . but , if there be not much to be said against the churches constitution , then they are ready to lay load upon the persons of the governours and members of it ; and thence pretend to a necessity of separation for a purer communion . let us endeavour to remove this objection , not by recrimination ( which is too easie in such cases ) but by living suitably to our holy religion , by reforming our own lives , and redressing ( what in us lies ) the scandals and disorders of others . let us by the innocency and unblameableness of our lives , the life and constancy of our devotions , the meekness and gentleness of our behaviour in our own cause , our zeal and courage in gods , add a lustre to our religion and bring others to a love of our church . ii. to those who dissent from our communion . whether they hear , or whether they will forbear , i cannot dismiss this subject , without offering some things to them , . by way of consideration . . by way of advice . ( . ) i shall offer these things to their consideration . . let them consider how many things must be born with in the constitution of a church ; which cannot be expected in this world to be without spot or wrinkle . and if men will set themselves only to find faults , it is impossible , in this state of things , they should ever be pleased . and if they separate where they see any thing amiss , they must follow his example who pursued this principle so far , till he withdrew from all society , lest he should communicate with them in their sin ; in which condition he continued till his children lay dead in the house , and he became utterly unable to help himself ; and because no humane inventions were to be allowed about the worship of god , he had cut out of his bible the contents of the chapters , and titles of the leaves , and so left the bare text , without binding or covers . this is the case the rigid and impracticable principles of some would bring our churches to , by cutting off all rules of order and decency , as encroachments on the institutions of christ. . i desire them to consider how impossible it is to give satisfaction to all , and how many things must be allowed a favourable interpretation in publick constitutions and general laws ; which it is hardly possible so to frame , but there will be room left for cavils and exceptions . yea when the wisest and best men have done their utmost , some of themselves confess , there may be dissatisfaction still ; and if christian humility , charity and discretion , will then advise persons to acquiesce in their private security and freedom , and not to unsettle the publick order for their private satisfaction . why should not men practise the same vertues themselves ; which they do confess , will be necessary for some at last ? wise and good men will consider the difficulties that always attend publick establishments ; and have that esteem for peace and order , that they will bear with anything tolerable for the sake of it . it is a very hard case with a church when men shall set their wits to strain every thing to the worst sense , to stretch laws beyond the intention and design of them , to gather together all the doubtful and obscure passages in calendars , translations , &c. and will not distinguish between their approbation of the use and of the choice of things , for upon such terms as these men think to justifie the present divisions . i much question , whether if they proceed in such a manner , they can hold communion with any church in the christian world . if men be disposed to find faults , no church can be pure enough ; for something will be amiss either in doctrine , or discipline , or ceremonies , or manners ; but if they be disposed to peace and union , then charity will cover a multitude of failing ; and then according to s. paul's advice , with all lowliness and meekness , with long-suffering , forbearing one another in love , they will be endeavouring to preserve the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace . and without the practice of the former vertues , no metaphysical discourses of unity , will signifie any thing to the churches peace . . they would do well to consider , how separation of the people from our churches comes to be more lawful now , than in the days of our fathers . it hath been often and evidently proved , that the most sober and learned non-conformists of former times , notwithstanding their scruples in some points , yet utterly condemned separation from our churches as unlawful . and they looked upon this , not as a meer common sin of humane infirmity , but as a wilful and dangerous sin ; in that it is so far from tending to the overthrow of antichrist , that it upholds and maintains him ; calling it a renting the church , the disgrace of religion , the advancement of pride , schism and contention , the offence of the weak , the grief of the godly , who be better settled , the hardening of the wicked , and the recovery or rising again of antichristianism ; nay , even persecuting the lord iesus in his hoast , which they revile in his ordinances , which they dishonour ; and in his servants whose footsteps they slander , whose graces they despise , whose office they trample upon with disdain . these are the very words of one of the most learned and judicious nonconformists before the wars . and surely the mischiefs that followed after , could not make separation to appear less odious . was it a sin ? was it such a sin then ? and is it none now ? either our brethren at this day , do believe it to be a sin for the people to separate , or they do not : if not , it must either be , that there are new and harder terms of communion , which were not then ; which is so far from being true , that they confess them to be rather easier for the people : or it must be , that they are gone off from the peaceable principles of their predecessors , which they are unwilling to own . if they do believe it to be a sin , why do they suffer the people to live in a known sin ? why do they encourage them by preaching in separate congregations ? for their predecessor did not think it lawful much less a duty , to preach when forbidden by a law : neither did they understand what warrant any ordinary minister hath in such a case by gods word , so to draw any church or people to his private ministery in opposition to the laws and government he lived under . they understood the difference between the apostles cases and theirs ; and never thought the apostles woe be unto me if i preach not the gospel , did extend to them ; but thought that silenced ministers ought to live as private members of the church till they were restored , and the people bound to learn. of which there can be far less ground to dispute , when themselves acknowledge the doctrine by law established to be true and found . . lastly , let me beseech them to consider the common danger that threatens us all by means of our divisions . we have adversaries subtile and industrious enough to make use of all advantages to serve their own ends ; and there is scarce any other they promise themselves more from , than the continuance of these breaches among our selves : this some of our brethren themselves have been aware of ; and on that account have told the people of the danger of the principles of separation , as to the interest of religion in general , and the protestant religion in particular among us . certainly , nothing would tend more to our common security than for all true and sincere protestants to lay aside their prejudices , and mistakes , and to joyn heartily in communion with us : which many of their teachers at this day allow to be lawful . and how can they satisfie themselves in hazarding our religion by not doing that , which themselves confess lawful to be done ? ( . ) but if we are not yet ripe for so great a mercy as a perfect union , yet i would intreat our brethren to make way for it by hearkning to these following advices . . not to give encouragement to rash and intemperate zeal ; which rends all in pieces , and makes reconciliation impossible . those who see least into things , are usually the fiercest condenders about them : and such eager disputants are fitter to make quarrels than to end them ; for they can be contentious for peace-sake , and make new differences about the ways of unity . wisdom and sobriety , a good judgement , a prudent temper , and freedom from prejudice will tend more to end our differences , than warm debates , and long disputations ; which as greg. nazianzen said once of councils , seldom have had any good end . but there is a more fiery sort of zeal , and more dangerous than this ; which may lie smothering for a time , till it meets with suitable matter and a freer vent , and then it breaks out into a dreadful flame . this we have already seen such dismal effects of in this age , that we should think there were less need to give men caution against it again , were it not to be feared , that where reason connot prevail , experience will not . all that we can say to such persons that may be like to move them , is , that if their blind zeal transport them , as it did sampson , to pull down the house over their heads , they will be sure to perish themselves in the fall of it ; but here will lie the great difference of the case , while they and their friends perish together , the philistims without will rejoyce to make others the instruments to execute their designs . . not to be always complaining of their hardships and persecutions ; as though no people had suffered so much since the days of dioclesian ; whereas the severity of laws hath been tempered with so much gentleness in the execution of them , that others have as much complained of indulgence , as they of persecution . it doth not look like the patience , and humility , and meekness of the primitive christians , to make such noise and outcries of their suffering so much , when they would have been rather thankful that they suffered no more . is this the way to peace , to represent their case still to the world in an exasperating and provoking manner ? is this the way to incline their governours to more condescension , to represent them to the people as an ithacian persecuting party ? where are the priscillians that have been put to death by their instigation ? what do such insinuations mean , but that our bishops are the followers of ithacius and idacius in their cruelty ; and they of the good and meek bishop s. martin , who refused communion with them on that account ? if men do entertain such kind thoughts of themselves , and such hard thoughts of their superiors , whatever they plead for , they have no inclination to peace . . not to condemn others for that which themselves have practised , and think to be lawful in their own cases . what outcries have some made against the church of england , as cruel and tyrannical , for expecting and requiring uniformity ? and yet do not such men , even at this day , contend for the obligation of a covenant , which binds men to endeavour after uniformity in doctrine , discipline and worship ? but they want the ingenuity of adonibezek , to reflect on the thumbs and the toes , which they have cut off from others ; and think themselves bound to do it again , if it were in their power . who could have been thought more moderate in this way , than those who went upon the principles of the dissenting brethren ? and yet we are assured , that even in new england , when their own church-way was by law established among them , they made it no less than banishment for the anabaptists to set up other churches among them , or for any secretly to seduce others from the approbation and use of infant-baptism . and how they have since proceeded with the quakers , is very well known . nay , even these , notwithstanding the single independency of every mans light within him , have found it necessary to make rules and orders among themselves to govern their societies , to which they expect an uniform obedience ; and allow no liberty out of the power and the truth ; as they love to speak . from all which it appears , the true controversie is not about the reasonableness of uniformity ; but who shall have the power of prescribing the rules of it . is it not now a very hard case , that the church of england must be loaded with bitter reproaches , and exposed to the common hatred of all parties for the sake of that , which every one of them would practise if it were in their power ; and think it very justifiable so to do ? . not to inflame the peoples heats , by making their differences with the church of england to appear to be greater than they are . let them deal honestly and faithfully with them , by letting them understand that they look on our churches as true churches , and occasional communion at least with them to be lawful : ( and it is hard to understand , if occasional communion be lawful , that constant communion should not be a duty . ) this were the way to abate mens great prejudices , and to soften their spirits , and to prepare them for a closer union . but if instead of this , they endeavour to darken and confound things , and cast mists before their eyes , that they cannot see their way clear before them ; all understanding men will conclude , they prefer some little interests of their own , before the honour of christ and the peace of his church . . not to harb●● or foment unreasonable jealousies and suspicions in peoples minds concerning us . this hath been one of the most successful arts of keeping up the distance and prejudices that have been so great among us , viz. by private whispers , by false suggestions , by idle stories , by unreasonable interpretation of words beyond the intention and design of those who spake them . by such devices as these , great mischief hath been done among us , and i am much afraid , is doing still . for nothing sets men at a greater distance from our church , than the apprehending that we are not hearty and sincere in the protestant cause : which although it be a most groundless and malicious calumny , yet there have been some , who have had so little regard to conscience , or common ingenuity , as not only to charge particular persons , but our church it self with marching towards popery . what injustice , what uncharitableness , what impudence is it , to fasten such an imputation upon a church that hath hitherto continued ( and long may it do so ) the chief bulwark of the protestant cause ? little do such persons consider , how much they serve the design of our enemies , who cannot but be mightily pleased to find their most formidable adversaries represented to the people as their secret friends . . not to run the hazard of all for a shew of greater liberty to themselves . for under this pretence our adversaries endeavour to make them their instruments to bring upon our necks 〈◊〉 yoke which neither we nor our fathers were able to bear . an universal toleration is that trojan horse , which brings in our enemies without being seen , and which after a long siege they hope to bring in at last under the pretence of setting our gates wide enough open , to let in all our friends . and then think with your selves what advantages they will have above others ; considering some mens coldness and indifferency in religion ; others uncertainty and running from one extreme to another ; others easiness in being drawn away by the hopes and fears of this world ; which have a wonderful influence upon changing mens opinions , even when they do not think it themselves . so that those seem very little to understand mankind , who do not apprehend the dangerous consequences of a general toleration . those who pretend there is no danger , because by this means the folly of their religion will be exposed , do not consider what a catching disease folly is ; and how natural it is for men that are fanciful in religion to exchange one folly for another . if all men were wise and sober in religion , there would need no toleration ; if they are not , we must suppose , if they had what they wished , they would do as might be expected from men wanting wisdom and sobriety , i. e. all the several parties would be striving and contending with each other , which should be uppermost , and gain the greatest interest . and what would the fruit of all such contentions be , but endless disputes , and exposing the follies of one another , till at last religion it self be sunk into the greatest contempt ; or men , through meer weariness of contending , be willing even to submit to papal tyranny , because it pretends to some kind of unity ? so that , upon the whole matter , if we would consult the honour of god and religion , the peace and tranquillity of the church we live in ; if we would prevent the great designs of our enemies , and leave the protestant religion here established to posterity , we ought to follow the apostles advice , in walking by the same rule , and in minding the same things . the end. published by the same author , several conferences between a romish priest , a fanatick chaplain , and a divine of the church of england , concerning the idolatry of the church of rome : being a full answer to the late dialogues of t. g. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e judges . , . rom. . . rom. . , , . tim. . . act. . ● ▪ gal. . ▪ ▪ ●om . . . ●hil . . , . ●hil . . , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , iliad . . cor. . . cor. . . act. . rom. . ● , , . rob. coenalis hist. gallic . l. . p. . iul. pollux . onomast . l. . c. . schol. in arist . acharn . act. . s. . sacrilegious desertion , p. . separation yet no schism , p. . peace-offering in the name of the congregational party , a. d. . p. , . baxters defence of his cure , p. . separation yet no schism , p. . * discourse concerning evangelical love , church-peace and unity , . p. , , . see corbet of schism , p. . baxters defence of his cure , p. . ●●●a for ●●ace , p. 〈◊〉 . discourse concerning-evangelical love , church-peace and unity , p. . baxters true and only way of concord , a. d. . p. . evangelical love , &c. p. . . p. . p. . rom. . . . colos. . philem. v. . clem. ep. ad corinth , p. . vnicuique civitati erat attri●uta certa regio , quae presby●eros inde sumeret , & velut corpori ecclesiae illius accense●etur , calvin . instit. l. . c. . ● . . petav. not . in epiphan . haer . . n. . canon . nicaen . . , . constan. c. . chalced. . , . antioc . c. . codex eccl. afric . c. . c. . concil . gangr . c. . concil . const. c. . concil . carthag . c. , . cyprian . ep. , . theod. eccl. hist. l. . c. . l. . c. . c. . vincent . c. . baron . a. d. . n. . . n. . joh. . . mat. . . rom. . . thess. . . phil. . . . . eph. . , . heb. . . true way of concord , part . ch . . sect. . papers for accommodation , printed . p. . p. , . p. . p. . p. , , . p. . p. . p. . p. . gal. . . papers for accommodation , p. . v. p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. , . p. . ibid. p. . p. . act. . . tim. . , . s. joh. . . ●nsw . to questions . , . they that are ruled must consider , that the best policy or constitution , so far as it is of mans regul●ting , hath defects and inconveniences , and affairs will be complicated ; an● therefore they must not be too unyielding , but bear with what is tolerable , a●● not easily remediable . corbett of the sound state of religion , p. . . ball against can. p. . a discourse of the religion of england in its due latitude . sect. . such is the complicated condition of humane affairs , that it is exceeding difficult to devise a rule or model that shall provide for all whom equity will plead for . therefore the prudent and sober will acquiesce in any constitution that is in some good sort proportionable to the ends of government . a discourse of the religion of england , &c. sect. . printed . see baxters cure of divisions . p. . eph. . , . papers of accommodation . p. . ball against can. pref. p. . bradshaw against iohnson . s. . . gouges whole armour of god. p. . nothing that i know of in the world , doth so strongly tempt some sober conscientious men to think popery necessary for the concord of churches , and a violent church government necessary to our peace , as the woful experience of the errors and schisms , the mad and manifold sects that arise among those that are most against them . baxters last answ. to bagshaw . p. . you little know what a pernicious design the devil hath upon you , in perswading you to desire and endeavour to pull down the interest of christ and religion , which is upheld in the parish-churches of this land : and to think that it is best to bring them as low in reality , or reputation as you can , and to contract the religious interest all into private meetings . id. p. . n. . judg. . see clarks narrative of new-englands persecution , a. d. . see spirit of the hat. ● . , &c. and verily you will keep up the papists hope , that by an universal toleration , they may at last come in on equal terms with you , or by connivence , be endured as much as you . and if they be equal in england with you , their transmarine advantages will make them more than equal , notwithstanding their disadvantages in their cause , and their contrariety to kingly interest . baxters last answ. to bagshaw . p. .